Stupid shit in Medellin [Archive] - Page 3

JjBee62

08-10-20, 06:50

West, the reason I actually engage in these debates is that it motivates me to get to the truth. Maybe I should not allow this to be my means of motivation, but too often, that is what does it.

As far as it stands right now, I can get upset all I want about the political noise in politics but the MSDNC approach has worked, and Trump is down, but the frustrating part is the political noise has gotten in the way of the truth.

But I did dig down further than I ever had on the experts and their opinions, and the experts were horribly, horribly wrong about so much. One of the things that I have noticed people do is to escape blame, people will be happy to not accept responsibility if blame can be dumped on someone else. So if the Democrats want to blame Trump for not listening to the so called experts, the so called experts will be happy to blame Trump too or just stay quiet..Did you find any polyps or fissures while doing your deep diving? Those polyps can become cancerous and diverticulitis isn't any fun. What am I saying? With as much time as your head is in there, you probably know your colon better than the back of your hand.

Did you notice the date on your YouTube video? It's obvious you failed to understand the context. Or were you deliberately misrepresenting the video? Be careful how you answer, because either you are lying, or your "deep dive" wouldn't have reached the bottom of a kiddie pool.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/outdated-fauci-video-on-face-masks-shared-out-of-context/

So which do you admit to? Dishonesty? Or inability to do basic research?

So Dr. ElAnus, can you elaborate on the more virulent mutation you personally discovered on Colombia and Peru? When and where will your research be published? I guess there's no real rush because the rest of the scientific community (the part that does actual research instead of making shit up) is completely unaware of this alleged mutation, which somehow has restricted itself to Colombia and Peru.

Of course you realize this means that the majority of Colombian deaths have to be in Leticia, the largest city which borders Peru. Let's just check the numbers. That's strange. Only 104 deaths in Amazonas. Better go back to your colon and find another turd to try to float here.

For those of you with more working brain cells than toes, the probability of an identical mutation appearing in 2 places, which are geographically separated, and only in those 2 places, is extremely low. I say separated because there has been no traffic between Bogota, Cartagena and Cali, and Lima since the travel ban went into effect.

If a more virulent strain existed, in order to affect both countries it would have to pass through Leticia, the only place where significant cross border traffic can be expected. Of course that still wouldn't get the more virulent strain to Bogota or Lima.

Another obvious lie, ElAnus? For shame!

PolloNegro

08-10-20, 13:56

Good to know that you are not freely giving pesos because throwing money around makes you look like a damn fool, a joke or a cartel member.In the beginning you said I was throwing money around and looking like a damn fool, joke or cartel member.

Don't be daft, having is not the problem its throwing it around to be noticed that's the issue here.Then you went on to say that I was absurd and foolish, by trying to utilize the word daft.

I am happy to know that. From what you have stated it appears that you do not spend a lot of money.Now you want to ease out of the conversation by stating that I appear to not spend a lot of money.

I have told you guys more than once, if you don't like what a BM posts, move on, don't show your true colors and then try to apologize or down play that your responses were inappropriate; point blank your posts were inappropriate. You have led me to believe that you have an affiliation with fools, people who are jokes, and you personally know Cartel Members, from your responses. Then again is you did know any Cartel Members, you would not include me cause I have never been present in your cartel member meetings, I have never been present in your who's the joke of the month meetings, and I am for sure that I have never been in your Damn Fool meetings, so either you know people who are jokes, damn fools, and cartel members, or you unnecessarily targeted me because you did not like my post? Either way, you have shown me and other BMs that if we do not post what meets your standards, you will attempt to belittle others and call them names without any sound evidence, as always, much respect, but you allowed your slip to show when you addressed me! Good day, and as always, Pollo Negro is out!

Black Page

08-10-20, 14:26

Elvis 2008

08-10-20, 16:27

Did you find any polyps or fissures while doing your deep diving? Those polyps can become cancerous and diverticulitis isn't any fun. What am I saying? With as much time as your head is in there, you probably know your colon better than the back of your hand.

Did you notice the date on your YouTube video? It's obvious you failed to understand the context.I completely understood the context and clearly you did not. The notion was that N95 masks worked and Fauci and the Surgeon General and CDC lied about masks in order that the public did not rush in and by them. This is similar to the Chinese hoarding them as well.

Of course, to a government libtard like you who is too busy sucking the cum out of government experts, you think that sitting there and getting spewed on by these experts is the way to get through life. In reality, they were wrong about N95 and masks in general.

It is no surprise that bureaucrats believe in limited resources and despise capitalism. Testing was not turned over to the private sector, and Americans were not told to produce masks en masse but led to believe that masks did not work. For some people, changing a belief is harder than having no belief in the beginning.

Outside of the testing debacle and Cuomo's decision to not isolated Covid infected nursing home residents, this was probably the biggest public policy mistake made, a complete failure on the part of the so called experts.

Of course, you and the NYT and libtard friends think the only person in government who screws up is Trump.

It is no surprise that you said that I was against wearing masks when in fact I was making fun of the government. There was a large grocery store that required masks, had none for sale. Our government discouraged travel to Mexico but there were masks galore on the other side of the border. Again, this was the bureaucrats at their worst.

For those of you with more working brain cells than toes, the probability of an identical mutation appearing in 2 places, which are geographically separated, and only in those 2 places, is extremely low.Whatever. I am not even going to try explaining things to you. You clearly have an agenda and getting to the truth is not it.

JjBee62

08-10-20, 17:36

The problem is that the information age has made everyone into "experts" in 5 minutes, whereas it used to take years of schooling and experience for someone to be considered an expert. The purpose of a university is to teach critical thinking. The books for the subjects they teach such as math, physics, lawyering have always been out there available for any Tom, Dick, or Trick to buy and learn the subject matter. But a person not attending the university would not pick up the valuable intangibles like critical thinking and peer criticism. It is like having a cookbook listing only ingredients but no cooking instructions. We are truly living out the movie Idiocracy.The information age hasn't changed the number of "experts", it's merely broadened their reach.

I remember an expert who hung out at the local service station when I was a kid. Every time a car came in for repair he'd announce that the problem was with the carburetor. He would spend 15 minutes telling anyone who would listen why the problem was in the carburetor. I just hope he died before fuel injected and diesel cars became popular, because I don't think he could have handled cars without carburetors.

The problem with the information age is a combination of the general lack of critical thinking skills along with the inherent dishonesty of so many people.

Take for example the video Elvis linked of Dr. Fauci saying people shouldn't wear masks. The video cuts out the context and makes it appear Fauci says masks are ineffective and people shouldn't wear them. This video has been circulating since early April and nobody bothers to look for the entire interview. They share it, either lacking the critical thinking skills which clearly indicate it's out of context, or they share it knowing the assertion is false, but they feel dishonesty is acceptable if it furthers their goal.

University is a fun place to develop critical thinking skills. However, nothing beats being stuck on a submarine for 78 days at a time with a bunch of bored nukes.

Elvis 2008

08-10-20, 18:33

I think we should err on the side of caution when we are dealing with something we don't know. One issue I see in countries that have problem is people are too optimistic about the things they don't know about, expert or not If everyone err on the side on caution and make short term sacrifice, the virus would have been stopped.Nounce, but you have to ask people to make the right kind of sacrifices. This is what the NFL is doing.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/08/09/houston-texans-training-camp-covid-nfl-fmia-peter-king/

Geoff Kaplan, the Infection Control Officer of the Houston Texans, wakes up—no alarm needed—in the guest room of his Houston home. Guest room, in his own home? Kaplan is married with 17- and 15-year-old sons, but for the last two weeks, while he tries to keep COVID-19 out of his own house and tries to avoid carrying it into an NFL practice facility, the guest room has been his room.

KINEXON proximity device next. That little square disk, the size and width of a Ghirardelli mini-chocolate square, will alert him if he's too close to anyone for 10 minutes or longer during the day.

These are the proper sacrifices. Do you see how social distancing is being done by people with billions of dollars on the line? You social distance at home not at Walmart. You socialize but keep the socialization down to less than 10 minutes per person. These are the right sacrifices to ask of people.

If you tell people they cannot go to their hair stylist, and it turns out they could have, then you lose them. So I do not think it is optimism but frustration.

I think what is interesting with the NFL versus the NBA is the NBA has totally buttoned itself down, and it has worked. The NFL is going to have teams travel versus stay secluded in one location. They are not secluding players from their families. They are taking more the MLB approach versus the NBA approach, and the MLB approach has not worked as well.

So far it has worked with the Houston Texans, and it probably will continue to work as long as the right kind of social isolation is being implemented and adhered to by the players and employees.

As far as saying we know what needs to be done to stop the virus, it is a different matter on a societal scale.

Still, some of what the NFL and NBA are doing right could be implemented right now, and it is not. I think that is in part due to the finger pointing and in part because the so called experts being unwilling to take a step back and admit their past advice was wrong.

Elvis 2008

08-10-20, 18:53

The problem is that the information age has made everyone into "experts" in 5 minutes, whereas it used to take years of schooling and experience for someone to be considered an expert. The purpose of a university is to teach critical thinking. The books for the subjects they teach such as math, physics, lawyering have always been out there available for any Tom, Dick, or Trick to buy and learn the subject matter. But a person not attending the university would not pick up the valuable intangibles like critical thinking and peer criticism. It is like having a cookbook listing only ingredients but no cooking instructions. We are truly living out the movie Idiocracy.I could care less what the university types could say. Again, you are pushing the Democrat notion that we should listen to experts when there are none.

If anyone should be getting Covid, it should be the techs who are running tens of thousands of these tests and seen thousands be positive. They have more hands on experience than anyone in any university. The pattern with them has been the same. At first, they gowned and gloved to the max and wore N95 masks then after a few weeks, slowly started loosening up more and more. Now it is no face shield, no gown, just a cloth mask and gloves, and none have gotten sick.

Who are the techs seeing get sick? Who do they expect is likely to be negative and who do they expect who is likely to be positive?

That is the type of pattern I have asked about and observed that I have to make sense of. Of course, you are welcome to make fun of my observing that, but I could care less. When I make a judgment, I care more about approval from people like them than anyone else.

Nounce

08-11-20, 03:13

Take for example the video Elvis linked of Dr. Fauci saying people shouldn't wear masks. The video cuts out the context and makes it appear Fauci says masks are ineffective and people shouldn't wear them. This video has been circulating since early April and nobody bothers to look for the entire interview. They share it, either lacking the critical thinking skills which clearly indicate it's out of context, or they share it knowing the assertion is false, but they feel dishonesty is acceptable if it furthers their goal..He wasn't wearing a face mask before and now he does. That is why you will never convince Elvis or someone like him. I think using that single instance to undermine Dr Fauci is wrong and it only allows the virus to do even more damages.

JjBee62

08-11-20, 05:03

I completely understood the context and clearly you did not. The notion was that N95 masks worked and Fauci and the Surgeon General and CDC lied about masks in order that the public did not rush in and by them. This is similar to the Chinese hoarding them as well.

Of course, to a government libtard like you who is too busy sucking the cum out of government experts, you think that sitting there and getting spewed on by these experts is the way to get through life. In reality, they were wrong about N95 and masks in general.

It is no surprise that bureaucrats believe in limited resources and despise capitalism. Testing was not turned over to the private sector, and Americans were not told to produce masks en masse but led to believe that masks did not work. For some people, changing a belief is harder than having no belief in the beginning.

Outside of the testing debacle and Cuomo's decision to not isolated Covid infected nursing home residents, this was probably the biggest public policy mistake made, a complete failure on the part of the so called experts..And you continue too perpetuate the lie. At least now you've confirmed that you are deliberately misrepresenting the facts.

From the 60 Minutes interview with Dr. Fauci, which you have repeatedly lied about, here is the transcript leading up to the portion of the video you posted. Remember, this was broadcast on Mar 8. On Mar 8 there was insufficient evidence to determine whether any infected people were asymptomatic. Also, at that time, it was believed that the extent community spread of the virus was known. This means that it was assumed that s majority of infected people were, or would be identified.

"LaPook, March 8: There's a lot of confusion among people, and misinformation, surrounding face masks. Can you discuss that?

Fauci: The masks are important for someone who's infected to prevent them from infecting someone else. Right now in the United States, people should not be walking around with masks.

LaPook: You're sure of it? Because people are listening really closely to this.

Fauci: .There's no reason to be walking around with a mask. When you're in the middle of an outbreak, wearing a mask might make people feel a little bit better and it might even block a droplet, but it's not providing the perfect protection that people think that it is. And, often, there are unintended consequences — people keep fiddling with the mask and they keep touching their face.

LaPook: And can you get some schmutz, sort of staying inside there?

Fauci: Of course, of course. But, when you think masks, you should think of health care providers needing them and people who are ill. The people who, when you look at the films of foreign countries and you see 85% of the people wearing masks — that's fine, that's fine. I'm not against it. If you want to do it, that's fine.

LaPook: But it can lead to a shortage of masks?

Fauci: Exactly, that's the point. It could lead to a shortage of masks for the people who really need it. ".

As anyone can clearly see, Dr. Fauci is saying that wearing a mask has minimal value for protecting you against the virus. It's purpose is to protect others from infected people.

Taken in context, not misrepresented, everything he says is correct, based upon what was known at the time. We also know there was a shortage of masks at that time. That, combined with what was known at the time, shows that everything he stated was 100% correct.

Apparently you haven't been paying attention. The only person constantly talking about Trump is you. As I've stated before, I have no reason to waste time on pointing out his errors. The history books will take care of that. When a building is on fire is not the time to worry about who started the fire.

My concern has been and continues to be stopping this. We know it's possible. New Zealand just recorded 100 days without community spread. Canada is maintaining at around 750 new cases a day. Germany is holding under 1200. South Korea has been under 100 new cases daily since April 1. Taiwan has been in mostly single digits since mid April. The US was doing an excellent job of getting it under control until the beginning of May. Then we stopped trying. We're currently averaging almost 400,000 new cases weekly and it's expected to go higher.

There's no magic required. It's actually quite simple. If you don't need to leave your house, don't. When you do have to leave your house wear a mask. Wash your hands. Avoid other people, especially those who aren't wearing a mask.

You don't need to make up more virulent mutations. You don't need to change your story every 3 days on social distancing and masks. Just follow the simple steps listed above. Instead of arguing over it, instead of insisting someone is trying to take away your individuality, instead of swallowing every conspiracy theory, just do it. Encourage others to do it. If it makes you feel better you can tell everyone to do it so you can prove to the libtard demorats that it doesn't work.

Then you can stop your crying and your lying and just maybe you can hope to someday go back to Colombia.

Mr Enternational

08-11-20, 05:59

I could care less what the university types could say. Again, you are pushing the Democrat notion that we should listen to experts when there are none.LOL. I am pushing nobody's notion because I am not affiliated with a political party. I vote for the candidate that I believe will best serve my interests at the time. For instance, I voted for Trump last time and will vote for Trump this time. But if the Democrats would have selected Sanders, then I would be voting for him. I vote the person, not the party.

So why does the USA even have a Center for Disease Control if there are no disease experts? You do not know a damn thing about cars. You pull up to Jiffy Lube and the guy that has been running the place for 20 years tells you your car is running bad because you have been using the wrong weight oil. But fuck him because there are no experts and you could care less what he says.

GeneHickman

08-11-20, 06:13

By this time next year this virus thing is in the rear view mirror. Anyone voting with this front and center is myopic in my view.

The world needs to deal with a lot of stuff including China, climate change, nuclear threats etc. 2 bad choices here is how I see it.

Economy wise atleast Trump has the edge. Both however want to spend like drunken sailors and the Fed seems willing to accommodate that's why the markets are going bananas.

Mr Enternational

08-11-20, 07:12

By this time next year this virus thing is in the rear view mirror. Anyone voting with this front and center is myopic in my view.Back in March people were saying the same thing about August.

Paulie97

08-11-20, 07:25

"By this time next year this virus thing is in the rear view mirror." GeneHickman.

Back in March people were saying the same thing about August.Touche.

Just Incognito

08-11-20, 16:24

Back in March people were saying the same thing about August.But. Its trumps fault for being the worst leader imaginable on this. And its the fault of the media for doing a horrible job--especially fox noise. And the American people are responsible for this debacle with their greed and stupidity.

6 weeks hardcore lockdown followed by national mask mandate for 2 months and we can start moving on. Should have been done March April May.

Shame on trump, fox noise and the republicans for politicizing public health and turning the USA into the worlds worst failure for dealing with the pandemic. Shameful.

Xavter

08-11-20, 17:46

But. Its trumps fault for being the worst leader imaginable on this. And its the fault of the media for doing a horrible job--especially fox noise. And the American people are responsible for this debacle with their greed and stupidity.

6 weeks hardcore lockdown followed by national mask mandate for 2 months and we can start moving on. Should have been done March April May.

Shame on trump, fox noise and the republicans for politicizing public health and turning the USA into the worlds worst failure for dealing with the pandemic. Shameful.I don't understand the logic of your solution. If a mask mandate solves the issue then why the need for the 6 week lockdown?

Elvis 2008

08-11-20, 18:53

LOL. I am pushing nobody's notion because I am not affiliated with a political party.I am not talking about what party you are are in. Democrats think intellectual elites can solve anything. Republicans think the free market can.

So why does the USA even have a Center for Disease Control if there are no disease experts?Is this disease like all the others? If so, you have a valid point. If it is not, and it is not, then there are no experts. What Fauci did early on was rely on his experience with influenza and Corona does not behave like influenza. He assumed expertise, and you assume he had expertise, when he was wrong. I do not even care that he was wrong. I care that he is wrong and not going back and fixing his previous mistakes to save face.

Elvis 2008

08-11-20, 19:29

My concern has been and continues to be stopping this. We know it's possible. New Zealand just recorded 100 days without community spread. Canada is maintaining at around 750 new cases a day. Germany is holding under 1200. South Korea has been under 100 new cases daily since April 1. Taiwan has been in mostly single digits since mid April. The US was doing an excellent job of getting it under control until the beginning of May. Then we stopped trying. We're currently averaging almost 400,000 new cases weekly and it's expected to go higher.There's no magic required. It's actually quite simple. If you don't need to leave your house, don't. When you do have to leave your house wear a mask. Wash your hands. Avoid other people, especially those who aren't wearing a mask.That simple huh? What are you going to do next JJBee? Eradicate the common cold? Of course, there is magic involved, you are going to invent a unicorn trap next.

New Zealand just had cases come back. South Korea, Germany, and Taiwan all engaged in the one policy I have said worked from the beginning: frequent testing, contact isolation, and targeted quarantines. And when I say worked, what I mean is slowed the spread of the virus.

The whole notion that you are pushing that political leaders and the citizens are responsible then is poppycock. The experts in the USA fucked up by not rolling out testing soon enough.

As for masks, the evidence is clear that when you stop or slow people spreading droplets from one another, the rate of viral transmission goes down. WTF does leaving the house have to do with anything? I have seen more spread among families than anywhere else. Where do you think people have the most prolonged exposure to one another's droplets?

You have no fucking clue what is going on.

You don't need to make up more virulent mutations.I didn't make anything up. You are fucking clueless. You are just repeating the clap trap the so called experts are spewing where all that matters are citizens and their compliance. It is not the expert's fault. They didn't fuck up. It is all on the citizens.

I just read that Cusco, Peru had a tiny fraction of cases compared to Lima. They must be more complaint in Cusco then in Lima right? It HAS to be that because that is all that matters. Compliance and washing one's hands. Jesus.

I do not know what is worse. The experts spewing their bullshit or dumb asses like you who keep buying it.

JjBee62

08-11-20, 23:24

I don't understand the logic of your solution. If a mask mandate solves the issue then why the need for the 6 week lockdown?It takes a total of 12 weeks, to get an outbreak under control. It takes 6 weeks for the infection rate to crest and begin to fall. If we go back to a strict lockdown, the number of new cases will continue to rise. After 3 weeks the rate at which it is rising will begin to fall. It will be rising more slowly. 3 weeks after that it will begin to fall. That assumes a majority comply.

So the 6 weeks is to get the curve going in the right direction. A mask mandate alone won't be as effective, because there are many situations where masks can't, or won't be worn. Bars and restaurants for example.

The mask mandate should be in place at the beginning of the 6 week shutdown, because obviously not everyone can stay home. Once the curve is going the right direction, if you can get everyone to comply with the mask mandate, you can begin to open things up, in a controlled manner. Some things might not be able to be opened up for 2 months or longer, theaters, bars, schools.

With a controlled reopening, combined with masks and a readiness to back up if the numbers start to go up, after 3-4 months most things can return to normal.

JjBee62

08-12-20, 00:17

That simple huh? What are you going to do next JJBee? Eradicate the common cold? Of course, there is magic involved, you are going to invent a unicorn trap next.

New Zealand just had cases come back. South Korea, Germany, and Taiwan all engaged in the one policy I have said worked from the beginning: frequent testing, contact isolation, and targeted quarantines. And when I say worked, what I mean is slowed the spread of the virus.

The whole notion that you are pushing that political leaders and the citizens are responsible then is poppycock. The experts in the USA fucked up by not rolling out testing soon enough.

As for masks, the evidence is clear that when you stop or slow people spreading droplets from one another, the rate of viral transmission goes down. WTF does leaving the house have to do with anything? I have seen more spread among families than anywhere else. Where do you think people have the most prolonged exposure to one another's droplets?I missed the part where you talked about Sweden. Still can't talk about Sweden? Katten har din tunga? Which is Swedish for "Cat got your tongue?" c'Mon. Let's hear what you have to say about Sweden. Every fucking day you were bringing up Sweden, until I pointed out how badly Sweden fared and now you run and hide from any mention of Sweden like it was a 300 pound tranny with halitosis.

While I'm waiting for you to address the Sweden question, let's talk about staying home.

If you live in a house or apartment with your family, chances are, whatever illness is going around, it will spread to other members of the family. This is especially true for families with children. If someone in the household is infected, there's a good chance others in the household will become infected. If nobody in the household is infected and everyone stays home, nobody in the household will become infected.

If nobody in the household is infected, and the people don't stay home, every time they leave the house there's a possibility one of them will become infected, bring it back home and infect the other members of the household.

This involves those critical thinking skills Mr. E was talking about. If you're not infected and you stay home as much as possible, you increase your chances of remaining virus free. If someone in your household is infected, your chance of becoming infected remains the same, whether you stay home every day, or leave home every day. However, your chance of infecting others goes up every time you leave the house.

Now let's talk about the experts in the US not rolling out testing quickly enough.

The "experts" by which I assume you mean the NIH or the CDC don't have the authority or the budget to roll out a nationwide testing initiative. All they can do is suggest to the President that we need to mobilize and what our priorities should be. Only the President, or Congress if they can pass legislation and override a Presidential veto, can authorize something of that magnitude.

While we're on the subject, the "experts" also don't have the authority, budget or responsibility to order an increase in production of masks and other PPE. Again, all they can do is point out the need to the President.

The President has broad authority over the US Strategic Reserves. Almost anything deemed essential to national security can be added and stockpiled, and the amount kept can be raised or lowered by the President.

For example, when oil prices were spiking in 1996, Clinton authorized the sale of 12 million barrels of oil from the US Strategic Reserves. He authorized the sale of another 30 million barrels in 2000. George W. Bush authorized buying oil to fill the reserves to capacity in 2001 and Trump authorized the sale of oil after the attacks on oil facilities in Saudi Arabia.

So the President, but not the CDC, could have increased worldwide production of masks and PPE by simply ordering the government to add those items to the strategic reserve. The President, but not the CDC, could have rolled out a nationwide testing initiative. He did neither.

As I said, I have no need to point fingers, but if you're going to insist on pointing, then you need to point in the right direction.

Finally, let's talk about Cusco, Peru.

The population of Cusco is 428,000.

The population of Lima is 10.5 million.

Cusco has had 6,879 cases.

Lima has had 19,684 cases.

More math fun coming up, or as I like to call it "Elvis is going to start avoiding any mention of Peru after this."

Lima has 24.5 times as many people as Cusco.

Lima has 2. 86 times as many cases as Cusco.

If Cusco had the same population as Lima it would have 168,500 cases, based upon the current number of cases per capita in Cusco.

If Lima had the same population as Cusco, it would have 803 cases, based upon the current number of cases per capita in Lima.

So. First Sweden and now Peru. At this rate you're going to run out of countries to talk about.

Nounce

08-12-20, 03:15

I don't understand the logic of your solution. If a mask mandate solves the issue then why the need for the 6 week lockdown?If the virus is inside an air tight container, it can't infect people outside the container. Our normal environment is like a leaky container. Mask can reduce leak but it still leaks unless everyone know how to operate with it perfectly then the virus can still get in thru your eyes. That is why the flight attendants on trans pacific flight wear goggles.

Lock down can be bullet proof if done right. For example, you don't lock people in hotel because most hotels has central A / see, that is a possible leak. You don't let people share bathroom because people may be infected by virus when you flush. It does not matter if these are required or not, just do it and it will be over in a few weeks. We can find the scientific truth later. If you only act after the truth is found, you are wasting valuable time because by the time you found the truth and start to act, you could have stopped the virus without knowing the truth. Just look at China's bordering countries. They are less advanced but doing so much better.

Air travel is another leak but it can be prevented. That is what 14 days quarantine does. You can track and escort a person to the dedicated facility the minute the visitor step out of the gate to make sure there is no leak.

One reason they are arguing is because even the what one would consider the correct position is "leaky" sometimes. For example, if you read my above description, you can see how quarantine is done can vary greatly. The reason quarantine does not work is because it has leaks so it is not done right. One reason it works in China is because China will take away the infected from their family members and put them in a special quarantine facility. They are making the healthy stay in the healthy container, and the infected in the infected container until they recover. Basically, you need to think about leak and plug them, then it will work. In some other countries, all living essentials will be delivered to the infected so they don't have to go out and it help reduce infections.

ChuchoLoco

08-12-20, 03:37

That simple huh?

I do not know what is worse. The experts spewing their bullshit or dumb asses like you who keep buying it.Let's see now. There's one expert or as he calls himself, the chosen one, who said this is all a hoax and then he said it would just disappear like a miracle in the summer from the heat and then he has a beautiful miracle drug and then he wonders if chlorine somehow ingested would kill it in seconds and then There's his followers who must be the asses who keep believing what he says. I agree with you!

It's easier to fool a fool than it is to convince a fool that he has been fooled.

DavidSchmauch

08-12-20, 05:00

I see you are all experts on Covid as well as you are on the politics of it. Can't you see that Trump and his republitards are trying to push a random drug as a cure to the virus (as if "free market" would do something to get us out of this horror) and democrats believe that there is no cure to Covid and that we would all have to be vaccinated or be quarantined for good. At this point no one knows nothing and we should pray that something happens soon so that we can start flying to those amazing places we once did again. I think our only hope is Biden winning and dying soon so that Kamala can do what one is supposed to do up there. Other than that, this moron will have his son in law who is the newspaper man try to have random private labs search for the cure or whatever he thinks might sell to desperate people who are being infected in unprecedented numbers. Pray for America.

Elvis 2008

08-12-20, 05:29

I think using that single instance to undermine Dr Fauci is wrong and it only allows the virus to do even more damages.How can anyone undermine Fauci when he changes his mind every second?

Here he is on lockdowns and the economy taking both points of view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuxi4c0dUOk.

Here he is on public gatherings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuxi4c0dUOk.

Here he is in person on social distancing and mask wearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdOSFbmyF_w.

It looks to me like the person undermining Fauci is Fauci.

How can you trust an expert who changes his mind every time the wind blows?

Xavter

08-12-20, 06:11

If the virus is inside an air tight container, it can't infect people outside the container. Our normal environment is like a leaky container. Mask can reduce leak but it still leaks unless everyone know how to operate with it perfectly then the virus can still get in thru your eyes. That is why the flight attendants on trans pacific flight wear goggles.

Lock down can be bullet proof if done right. For example, you don't lock people in hotel because most hotels has central A / see, that is a possible leak. You don't let people share bathroom because people may be infected by virus when you flush. It does not matter if these are required or not, just do it and it will be over in a few weeks. We can find the scientific truth later. If you only act after the truth is found, you are wasting valuable time because by the time you found the truth and start to act, you could have stopped the virus without knowing the truth. Just look at China's bordering countries. They are less advanced but doing so much better.

Air travel is another leak but it can be prevented. That is what 14 days quarantine does. You can track and escort a person to the dedicated facility the minute the visitor step out of the gate to make sure there is no leak.

One reason they are arguing is because even the what one would consider the correct position is "leaky" sometimes. For example, if you read my above description, you can see how quarantine is done can vary greatly. The reason quarantine does not work is because it has leaks so it is not done right. One reason it works in China is because China will take away the infected from their family members and put them in a special quarantine facility. They are making the healthy stay in the healthy container, and the infected in the infected container until they recover. Basically, you need to think about leak and plug them, then it will work. In some other countries, all living essentials will be delivered to the infected so they don't have to go out and it help reduce infections.You're still not addressing my question. You stated that the solution was a bulletproof lockdown (not clear what this means by your description) and then mandatory face masks for all. Are you suggesting that the virus can't spread anymore after a 14 day "bulletproof lockdown" as long as everyone uses face masks?

Mr Enternational

08-12-20, 07:03

Is this disease like all the others? If so, you have a valid point. If it is not, and it is not, then there are no experts.Being an expert means that you know how to do research and analysis and come to scholarly conclusions on something. It does not mean that you know everything about something on day 1 minute 1.

You don't take your car to an veteran mechanic and expect him to tell you what is wrong with it before tinkering under the hood and poking around doing an analysis. And when he attempts to do it every 30 seconds you are hollering you are no damn expert at all. If you were you would have had this thing fixed already. Experts do not have to already know everything about something, but they know the process and steps to take in order to find out. And even expert pilots crash; don't mean they were not an expert.

But since the CDC people are not experts, I guess you have just as much chance of figuring the thing out as they do, so have at it.

ShooBree

08-12-20, 07:25

There's more foolishness from another state that isn't getting the message.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/students-get-suspended-for-posting-pictures-of-schools-crowded-halls-now-several-people-have-been-infected-2020-08-09?mod=home-page

And such is well reflected in their results. See attachments below.Georgia is doing just fine, of course they're more sensitive to the virus given their low numbers of deaths. It's funny that some people are still worrying about the virus considering that at worst 0.2% of the population will die while the unemployment is going through the roof.

200 lost their jobs for every old, weak and fat that lost their lives. It's absolutely crazy.

ShooBree

08-12-20, 07:42

How to do it and how not to do it, the Covid response with reopening efforts in New York when compared to states such Florida, Georgia, Texas, and California.

"As the cases and deaths rose and hospital spaces were filled up across New York, city and state leaders increased their strict health mandates, ordering that all New Yorkers wear a face covering outdoors in April and maintain social distancing while businesses remained shuttered.

Carol Gomes, the CEO of Stony Brook University Hospital in Suffolk County, told ABC News she believes more people took the governor's orders seriously because of his constant and informative daily news conferences.

While there were some who still blatantly ignored the mandates for face coverings and social distancing, New York residents, by and large, adhered to the health guidance because they were being hit constantly with reminders of that COVID-19 curve, according to Gomes.

'I really do believe that the focus on the balance was communicating with the public about reducing the spread. You go to supermarkets and everyone was wearing masks,' she told ABC News. 'There was continuous reinforcement of the orders in our communities. '.

The efforts paid off, according to Braithwaite, as the data showed cases and deaths were going down throughout the state in April and May. "

And they are still going down even to this day. .

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/york-coronavirus-bay-states-surges/story?id=71772507This is hilarious, you're aware that NY is only second to NJ when it comes to number of deaths per capita. I would call New York the Corona Capital of the World. The virus truly had its way in NY to the degree that they probably reached herd immunity. NY didn't "succeed" with anything, they failed so bad that they have pretty much already reached the worst case scenario.

ShooBree

08-12-20, 07:56

Check my photo attachments, a huge high five to New Yorkers who learned and have done a marvelous job of containing a pandemic. The same data can be found via the link below, and by scrolling down and viewing the graphs related to daily new cases and daily deaths, fucking impressive.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/new-york/

Enjoy your weekend gentlemen, and again, hats off to New York!.The second highest number of deaths per capita in the USA and you're impressed? It's good that they pretty much reached herd immunity, but the way that they failed isn't impressive.

Paulie97

08-12-20, 09:36

Being an expert means that you know how to do research and analysis and come to scholarly conclusions on something. It does not mean that you know everything about something on day 1 minute 1.

You don't take your car to an veteran mechanic and expect him to tell you what is wrong with it before tinkering under the hood and poking around doing an analysis. And when he attempts to do it every 30 seconds you are hollering you are no damn expert at all. If you were you would have had this thing fixed already. Experts do not have to already know everything about something, but they know the process and steps to take in order to find out. And even expert pilots crash; don't mean they were not an expert.

But since the CDC people are not experts, I guess you have just as much chance of figuring the thing out as they do, so have at it.Reading his posts it's very clear that it's all about him. He doesn't want the inconveniences of social distancing and masks. And he cares more about his personal finances and access to cheap pussy than human lives. The experts are in his way so he poops on them at every opportunity, and in a monger forum of all places. It's sad when you think about it, to live in such a tiny, self-absorbed world.

Nounce

08-12-20, 15:19

You're still not addressing my question. You stated that the solution was a bulletproof lockdown (not clear what this means by your description) and then mandatory face masks for all. Are you suggesting that the virus can't spread anymore after a 14 day "bulletproof lockdown" as long as everyone uses face masks?There is a record that people tested positive at 22nd days of quarantine. Instead of the common 14 days isolation protocol, there is at least one country adds 7 days mandatory mask and avoid using public transportation or going to public places. I don't want to give you wrong information because a lot of stuff are not proven so I am not going to explain why.

I said lock down can be bullet proof and present different degree of isolations but I don't mean what I presented is bullet proof. If you can plug all the leaks so virus can't get away to infect others, then it is bullet proof. Obviously you can't lock down everyone so you are going to have people out with masks. If you can come up with a method with mask or quarantine that has no leaks, then it will work because virus can seek out leak to infect others. Try to find a video that shows how doctors and nurses wear and seal their masks to prevent infection if you can. It may help you get the idea.

I am explaining the basic but you need to figure out how to apply it because there is no single answer.

Elvis 2008

08-12-20, 17:54

He doesn't want the inconveniences of social distancing and masks. And he cares more about his personal finances and access to cheap pussy than human lives.You are a liar. You think New York, the state with the most deaths, is the answer to beating the Corona virus. You think Peruvians suck and Colombians suck because they listened to experts and their populations were decimated by Corona. You want Trump out of office and are willing to destroy the world economy to do so. You think the answer to this crisis is listening to the same people who have been all over the fucking place with their recommendations and that the citizens, most of whom who follow their advice to the tee, are to blame. You want all Americans to blindly hand over their civil rights without ever questioning authority.

I have said umpteen times masks work and that Fauci was dead wrong on this issue.

I am a patriot. You all are sheep.

Elvis 2008

08-12-20, 17:59

The second highest number of deaths per capita in the USA and you're impressed? It's good that they pretty much reached herd immunity, but the way that they failed isn't impressive.And Cuomo sending back infected nursing home residents to their facilities to infect other residents?

Cuomo's call for needing 30,0000 ventilators?

And then there was Cuomo's latest "I literally talk to people all day long who are now in their Hamptons house who also lived here, or in their Hudson Valley house, or in their Connecticut weekend house, and I say, 'You got to come back! We'll go to dinner! I'll buy you a drink! Come over, I'll cook! The Democratic governor said Monday.

Do you know what MSDNC loving guys like Paulie call this? Real leadership!

This lying sack of shit actually tried to put himself out as a Republican.

Elvis 2008

08-12-20, 18:07

I said lock down can be bullet proof and present different degree of isolations but I don't mean what I presented is bullet proof. If you can plug all the leaks so virus can't get away to infect others, then it is bullet proof. Obviously you can't lock down everyone so you are going to have people out with masks. If you can come up with a method with mask or quarantine that has no leaks, then it will work because virus can seek out leak to infect others.That is great, Nounce. What are you going to come up with next, a cure for AIDS or TB? WTF is wrong with you that you would even propose a cure?

I am explaining the basic but you need to figure out how to apply it because there is no single answer.Nope, frequent testing, targeted quarantines and isolation and masks used under given circumstances slow the spread of the virus. That is it. Generalized quarantines do great at one thing for sure, destroying economies.

The funny thing about this is I have been down this rabbit hole before, and you dummies are going to be repeating the same things I just said as if you were right the whole time.

ShooBree

08-12-20, 18:40

Reading his posts it's very clear that it's all about him. He doesn't want the inconveniences of social distancing and masks. And he cares more about his personal finances and access to cheap pussy than human lives. The experts are in his way so he poops on them at every opportunity, and in a monger forum of all places. It's sad when you think about it, to live in such a tiny, self-absorbed world.People are losing their jobs, companies and a few even their homes! I can't believe that some people don't see the actual consequences of this self inflicted economic recession, or even depression. So far I'm lucky, I get to keep my job and thanks to people like you there will be no shortage of pussy and I've never seen the hotel prices so low. Yet I'm not happy because I care about others and am consider of the human suffering.

The politicians in charge of the lockdowns are not the ones losing their income, they live a good life in quarantine while others don't know how to pay their rent or have money for food. That over a virus that isn't even that dangerous, most get it and get on with their lives without any problems.

The question is; who's really living in "such a tiny, self-absorbed world"?

Xavter

08-12-20, 18:44

There is a record that people tested positive at 22nd days of quarantine. Instead of the common 14 days isolation protocol, there is at least one country adds 7 days mandatory mask and avoid using public transportation or going to public places. I don't want to give you wrong information because a lot of stuff are not proven so I am not going to explain why.

I said lock down can be bullet proof and present different degree of isolations but I don't mean what I presented is bullet proof. If you can plug all the leaks so virus can't get away to infect others, then it is bullet proof. Obviously you can't lock down everyone so you are going to have people out with masks. If you can come up with a method with mask or quarantine that has no leaks, then it will work because virus can seek out leak to infect others. Try to find a video that shows how doctors and nurses wear and seal their masks to prevent infection if you can. It may help you get the idea.

I am explaining the basic but you need to figure out how to apply it because there is no single answer.Well now you're backpedaling on your earlier declarative statements. You stated that:

Its trumps fault for being the worst leader imaginable on this. And its the fault of the media for doing a horrible job--especially fox noise. And the American people are responsible for this debacle with their greed and stupidity.
6 weeks hardcore lockdown followed by national mask mandate for 2 months and we can start moving on. Should have been done March April May.
Shame on trump, fox noise and the republicans for politicizing public health and turning the USA into the worlds worst failure for dealing with the pandemic. Shameful.Now you're stating that there is no single answer and that someone needs to come up with a method with masks or quarantine. So which one do you believe? I believe you should stop making declarative statements that you can't support in order to take political pot shots.

Paulie97

08-12-20, 18:58

Georgia is doing just fine.Georgia is not doing "just fine. " Confirmed cases and deaths are surging there in a big way. I posted the graphs already. Here they are again. If you are having trouble reading and interpreting the simple data maybe you can find someone to help you. They like several other states opened too soon and are paying a serious price.

It's funny that some people are still worrying about the virus considering that at worst 0.2% of the population will die while the unemployment is going through the roof.At worst? You are at. 06% in Sweden now and counting, with 11 times the per capita deaths as your neighbor Norway. And even with this foolish, deadly experiment you are only at about 10% of the way to herd immunity.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/21/coronavirus-swedish-herd-immunity-drove-up-death-toll-column/5472100002/

200 lost their jobs for every old, weak and fat that lost their lives. It's absolutely crazy.More false information. What's crazy is your failed experiment in Sweden that killed many thousands of your countrymen needlessly.

Covid causes more than death. Many suffer long term, debilitating symptoms and permanent damage is possible.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/featured/sns-nyt-op-what-to-do-when-coronavirus-doesnt-go-away-20200810-mm3uugn275eplcdglidoylngzy-story.html

Though it primarily effects elders the young don't get a pass.

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/more-young-people-are-dying-from-covid-19-in-florida/

https://fox59.com/news/coronavirus/21-year-old-says-covid-19-seemed-like-flu-or-cold-at-first-before-he-was-on-the-verge-of-death/

There's also evidence of serious neurological effects in small children.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 . 20088021 v1.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamane . Ct /2767979.

Scroll down and review the CDC data on deaths. Plenty of the 54 and under crowd are effected.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

I couldn't care less about your unemployment or access to cheap pussy. Economies recover. Dead people never do. Your foolish experiment failed. The world doesn't want to sacrifice millions of lives chasing herd immunity. We want to take certain precautions while we work on effective treatments and a vaccine. So put the cork in your whining and your failed, dangerous ideas back in your ass.

Paulie97

08-12-20, 19:21

The second highest number of deaths per capita in the USA and you're impressed? It's good that they pretty much reached herd immunity, but the way that they failed isn't impressive.This is of course is a deflection, key ring jingle, "oh don't look at that, look over here!" No one denies that New York was once the epicenter of the virus. This isn't surprising given the logistics, a crowed major city, heavy use of mass transit systems and it's a huge hub for international travel. What's impressive is their response to the disaster, as over the last three months they've gone from confirmed daily cases in the 10 K rangle down to around 500. Death rates have seen a similar trajectory. And how was this all accomplished? It was with daily news briefings and widespread compliance with masks, social distancing and other containment measures. It works. That's what you don't want to hear, so you change the subject.

Paulie97

08-12-20, 19:30

JjBee62

08-12-20, 20:40

How can anyone undermine Fauci when he changes his mind every second?

Here he is on lockdowns and the economy taking both points of view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuxi4c0dUOk.

Here he is on public gatherings: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuxi4c0dUOk.

Here he is in person on social distancing and mask wearing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdOSFbmyF_w.

It looks to me like the person undermining Fauci is Fauci.

How can you trust an expert who changes his mind every time the wind blows?You're kidding me, right? You take 3 out of context videos, all from Tucker Carlson, and those are your proof? Stop with your constant bullshit. Link the full interviews, instead of the carefully cropped segments that Fox likes to use to convince the terminally stupid, of whatever lie they are perpetuating.

Still true to form.

Paulie97

08-12-20, 20:51

It's good that they pretty much reached herd immunityNY has no more reached "herd immunity" than Georgia is "doing fine. ".

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/roughly-25percent-of-new-york-city-has-probably-been-infected-with-coronavirus-dr-scott-gottlieb-says.html

Oh how easy it is to lie in a monger forum. The supply of such is inexhaustible.

JjBee62

08-12-20, 21:06

This is hilarious, you're aware that NY is only second to NJ when it comes to number of deaths per capita. I would call New York the Corona Capital of the World. The virus truly had its way in NY to the degree that they probably reached herd immunity. NY didn't "succeed" with anything, they failed so bad that they have pretty much already reached the worst case scenario.First, it's still unknown whether "herd immunity" is possible with this virus. We already know that having the virus once doesn't provide protection against reinfection for many people. Whether repeated exposure will allow people to build up a resistance is still unknown.

Second, since we know herd immunity will require at least 2 infections per person, there has not been sufficient time for anyplace to acquire herd immunity.

Third, "herd immunity" requires at least 70% of the population to develop resistance. For New York that would require roughly 14 million people to have the disease at least twice. Much higher than the 428 k confirmed cases so far.

Fourth, the success of a response is determined by the final result, rather than the starting point. If you started out with an investment of $10 million, you're not considered a successful investor if you end up with $50,000. On the other hand, if you turn $50 k into $10 million, you've done fantastic. New York had around 5,000 new cases daily when they initiated strict controls to combat the virus. They peaked at over 11 k new cases daily 6 weeks later. Since that time they have shown constant improvement with daily new cases hovering around 700 and daily deaths around 10.

It continues to baffle me how people fail to grasp that basic concept. Let's see if this makes sense to you:

There are 2 identical high rise apartment buildings. In the first building there is an explosion, which immediately destroys 10 apartments, damages another 30 and kills 48 people. In the second building there is a small fire in a garbage can.

In the first building, the fire is put out through extraordinary efforts and only 5 of the 45 floors are seriously damaged.

In the second building, nothing is done about the fire and it grows. By the time anyone does anything 39 people are dead, another 300 people are trapped and at least 6 floors have been destroyed. Who knows what the final numbers will be?

Using your reasoning, the first building is an example of doing everything wrong, while the second building is an example of doing everything right?

Paulie97

08-12-20, 21:18

JjBee62

08-12-20, 21:19

Elvis 2008

08-12-20, 22:28

Being an expert means that you know how to do research and analysis and come to scholarly conclusions on something. It does not mean that you know everything about something on day 1 minute 1.I totally agree, ME, and that means when you make a conclusion, and you are wrong about it. You admit it. Show me any expert who has done that here.

I want your take on Fauci and the ball park and social distancing. He didn't social distance. Why? Because he was lazy or was he doing it because he knows social distancing does not work but didn't come out and admit he was wrong?

Don't you think experts have to lead by example? Showing us the video means he is either a fraud or a liar, and I have little patience with someone like Fauci asking everyone else to sacrifice while he does whatever the fuck he wants.

I am sick of so called government experts who do not admit fault with anything.

Elvis 2008

08-12-20, 22:55

People are losing their jobs, companies and a few even their homes! I can't believe that some people don't see the actual consequences of this self inflicted economic recession, or even depression. So far I'm lucky, I get to keep my job and thanks to people like you there will be no shortage of pussy and I've never seen the hotel prices so low. Yet I'm not happy because I care about others and am consider of the human suffering.

The politicians in charge of the lockdowns are not the ones losing their income, they live a good life in quarantine while others don't know how to pay their rent or have money for food. That over a virus that isn't even that dangerous, most get it and get on with their lives without any problems.

The question is; who's really living in "such a tiny, self-absorbed world"?I agree.

Shoobree, do you remember there was a hair stylist in Dallas who stayed open and became a bit of a hero when a liberal POS judge wanted to put her in jail?

"As Shelley Luther faced criminal and civil contempt-of-court charges, Judge Moyé offered her a chance to make things right: She had to admit her actions were selfish and wrong and that she would follow the law. ".

So this is the Paulie libtard POV. How dare you put your own selfish interests above the interests of the community? You are killing people! To jail with you, you selfish *****!

She did go to jail and said before going.

"I have to disagree with you, sir, when you say that I'm selfish, because feeding my kids is not selfish," she said in court Tuesday, CBS DFW reported. "I have hair stylists that are going hungry because they'the rather feed their kids. So, sir, if you think the law is more important than kids getting fed, then please go ahead with your decision, but I am not going to shut down the salon. ".

He sentenced Luther to seven days in jail.

This is liberalism in action. This woman did not do what the experts said because she did not believe them. She kept her business open and adopted the best sanitary practices she could. Her clients came in knowing the risks but did so anyway. She defied the experts and in doing so, she was put in jail.

But on Thursday, the state Supreme Court ordered her release. A Dallas Morning News video shows her leaving jail amid a cheering crowd with balloons.

So this woman's victory to Nounce, JJBee, and Paulie and all the other libtards was crazy and horribly irresponsible, and as I said, Fauci himself is not even social distancing in his leisure time right? And no one is throwing his sorry government ass in jail or fining him.

The notion that social distancing works is not based on science but just repetition. In fact, the WHO actually recommended three feet of distance versus six. It was like heterosexual AIDS. There were so many studies that showed there was a 0% transmission rate I was like why are we saying this study showed it was 0%. The evidence for heterosexual AIDS transmission was shit anyway, and the same is true about catching Covid when you are getting your hair cut, but somehow you have to prove that it is safe because the experts made that judgment on shit evidence.

So in Springfield, Missouri, you have two hair stylists, and both are Covid positive. They see 139 clients, and NOT ONE PERSON gets Covid.

So does the CDC come out and say we fucked up? Does the judge do likewise? "Sorry, hair stylists, we fucked up and we put you out of business. Nyah, nyah, nyah! We have jobs and you do not. " Of course not. None of those fuckers admits they did anything wrong. You the citizens are supposed to sacrifice but not people in government will keep our jobs not even when we royally fuck up. Shit, we are getting paid even when we don't work.

Here is what the CDC wrote.

As stay-at-home orders are lifted, professional and social interactions in the community will present more opportunities for spread of SARS-CoV-2. Broader implementation of face covering policies could mitigate the spread of infection in the general population.

See what I mean? These liberal fucktard so called experts can never admit they are wrong about anything.

By the way, this is one of a bunch of other anecdotal instances that got the government to do an about face on mask wearing, but they really never and came out and explained why their attitudes changed. It is there, but you have to dig it out.

ShooBree

08-12-20, 23:33

Georgia is not doing "just fine. " Confirmed cases and deaths are surging there in a big way. I posted the graphs already. Here they are again. If you are having trouble reading and interpreting the simple data maybe you can find someone to help you. They like several other states opened too soon and are paying a serious price.

At worst? You are at. 06% in Sweden now and counting, with 11 times the per capita deaths as your neighbor Norway. And even with this foolish, deadly experiment you are only at about 10% of the way to herd immunity.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2020/07/21/coronavirus-swedish-herd-immunity-drove-up-death-toll-column/5472100002/

More false information. What's crazy is your failed experiment in Sweden that killed many thousands of your countrymen needlessly.

Covid causes more than death. Many suffer long term, debilitating symptoms and permanent damage is possible.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/featured/sns-nyt-op-what-to-do-when-coronavirus-doesnt-go-away-20200810-mm3uugn275eplcdglidoylngzy-story.html

Though it primarily effects elders the young don't get a pass.

https://www.wfla.com/community/health/coronavirus/more-young-people-are-dying-from-covid-19-in-florida/

https://fox59.com/news/coronavirus/21-year-old-says-covid-19-seemed-like-flu-or-cold-at-first-before-he-was-on-the-verge-of-death/

There's also evidence of serious neurological effects in small children..The death toll in Georgia is a fifth of the one in New York, Georgia is doing fine. The people that are dying would in most cases have died sooner rather than later anyways. A 20 year old Toyota isn't worth as much as a brand new Audi RS5. Stop destroying the lives of innocent people that have nothing to fear from this ridiculous virus.

The number of daily deaths in Sweden are close to zero, we had an excellent and scientific approach to this virus. It's rather obvious that we're getting close to herd immunity in Sweden. We've beaten the virus. Lockdowns are not working. Less than 5800 deaths in a country with over 10 million inhabitants, that's a low price to pay. Especially considering that those 5774 persons wouldn't have lived much longer anyway. Survival of the fittest and Herd Immunity for the Win!

People have died in Denmark, Norway and Finland as well. They are seeing new outbreaks while in Sweden the number of deaths are going down, down, down. Soon to be 0 a day. Herd immunity is a beautiful thing. 99.94% have survived this virus, it's simply incredible how brilliant and successful the Swedish strategy have been. It's a big win for the country and the Swedish people. We Swedes are extremely fortunate and happy to have been guided through this mess by a man like Tegnell. Although we are extremely worried over the incompetence shown in other European countries. Great leaders aren't driven by fear and populism, like in Germany and France, but by science.

You need to stop lying. If reality is contradicting your opinions, then maybe you should reconsider your opinions. For each death 200 people have lost their jobs. It's hard to comprehend the price the society is paying for delaying the inevitable with a few months or years. Most of those that are dying can't even take care themselves. They can't even take a shower or get dressed by themselves. Many of them are already living in the hospital. Sadly many of them have lost the will to live since they aren't living dignified lives. Senior citizens of good health can easily go into quarantine in their own homes without any danger to get infected. To quarantine people under 50 is moronic considering that only 70 persons in that age group have died.

Thank you for showing your true colors, you don't care about people losing their jobs and homes. You don't care about billions of humans being thrown back into extreme poverty. You don't care about families getting their lives destroyed and I don't care about you being afraid of a pathetic little virus that only kills the old and weak. Life is getting back to normal, if you're scared stay at home.

The Swedish strategy is based on science, not populism, it's also been proven to be the overall most successful strategy.

ShooBree

08-12-20, 23:38

ShooBree

08-12-20, 23:46

This deflection was answered in my prior post to you so no need to rehash it. New York is still a long ways from herd immunity, estimates are that in the rangle of 20 to 25% of the population has been exposed. What isn't hilarious is Sweden, 22 times the number of deaths, 11 times the per capita death rate of their neighbor Norway as a result of a foolish experiment, completely avoidable and was essentially suicide.What you're doing is self-projecting your thoughts on me. I was simply responding to your post praising NY, the COVID-19 Capital of the World. It's funny how quick you were to change the topic.

The job losses caused by the lockdowns are unparalleled and the worst betrayal of young people in human history.

Psychman

08-13-20, 01:12

Nounce

08-13-20, 02:15

That is great, Nounce. What are you going to come up with next, a cure for AIDS or TB? WTF is wrong with you that you would even propose a cure?

Nope, frequent testing, targeted quarantines and isolation and masks used under given circumstances slow the spread of the virus. That is it. Generalized quarantines do great at one thing for sure, destroying economies.

The funny thing about this is I have been down this rabbit hole before, and you dummies are going to be repeating the same things I just said as if you were right the whole time.

Don't know who's post you are responding to? Did I say it has to be generalized quarantine, total lockdown? What I know is we both agree target quarantines can work, but you have to come up with something I did not say to disagree with me?

I did not even want to add to make it even more confusing when you made the similar statement responding to JB. I know at least a country that does not do testing like you described and they are fine. There is actually a debate on whether they should do more testing but so far they are fine without. Why do I know because I am in that country right now. I write what I observe first hand. Haha.

Nounce

08-13-20, 02:18

Well now you're backpedaling on your earlier declarative statements. You stated that:

Now you're stating that there is no single answer and that someone needs to come up with a method with masks or quarantine. So which one do you believe? I believe you should stop making declarative statements that you can't support in order to take political pot shots.

I have already been to two countries with no current Covid outbreaks now. What I wrote is what I observe and experience. And I am planning to go to another country without virus infection but 14 days quarantine is a killer. Sorry you have problem comprehending my post. Obviously I can't help you,

Don't know why you quoted me on something posted by JustIncognito?

But. Its trumps fault for being the worst leader imaginable on this. And its the fault of the media for doing a horrible job--especially fox noise. And the American people are responsible for this debacle with their greed and stupidity.

6 weeks hardcore lockdown followed by national mask mandate for 2 months and we can start moving on. Should have been done March April May.

Shame on trump, fox noise and the republicans for politicizing public health and turning the USA into the worlds worst failure for dealing with the pandemic. Shameful.

Paulie97

08-13-20, 04:37

Some of you might have seen this Dr. Scott Atlas, a neurologist whoring himself out on Fox News. He also buddies up to the POTUS and tells him what he wants to hear. He's not a contagious disease specialist, is at odds with virtually every contagious disease specialist on the planet, and uses "data" from the 50's, 70's, and 80's. LOL he's also steadily been wrong. Here's one of many useful quotes followed by a link to the article that contains many more. For source citations follow the embedded links.

"In an opinion column on March 26, citing the early fatality-rate estimates of another researcher, Dr. John Ioannidis, Dr. Atlas wrote: 'There is massive uncertainty, but using Ioannidis' mid-range fatality rate, this virus could cause about 10,000 deaths in the United States overall, overall, a number that would not be extraordinary news in the total of flu-like deaths every season. '

https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/503047-our-lockdowns-are-not-deadlier-than-the-disease

Paulie97

08-13-20, 05:42

Given that this is a federal crime Trump should immediately pardon these individuals and put them on his Covid-19 advisory staff. That's if he doesn't want to first sue them for stealing his idea. .

"The Colombian prosecutor's office said Tuesday that Mark and Joseph Grennon were arrested in the beach town of Santa Marta, and were shipping their "Miracle Mineral Solution" — chlorine dioxide — from there to clients in the United States, Colombia and Africa. It said seven Americans had died from using the substance. Mark Grenon is the archbishop of the Genesis II Church of Health and Healing, based in Bradenton, Florida, which is centered on use of the toxic chemical as a supposed sacrament it claims can cure a vast variety of illnesses ranging from cancer to autism to malaria and now COVID-19. "

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/colombia-arrests-us-men-accused-selling-fake-covid-72329667

P.S. Notice these guys were very concerned about their "constitutional rights. " Marvelous.

ShooBree

08-13-20, 06:25

Correct. We are beyond far off from even the possibility of heard immunity. One of my clients, a well trained epidemiologist, modeled that nearly 750,000 US citizens would have to die before herd immunity was likely (if at all possible). I know, silly me for believer her over CNN, Fox news, or the monger board.

Oh, and BTW, howdy from CRT.She doesn't seem to be especially competent, much more competent and higher ranked epidemiologist predicts a lower death toll. Her guess isn't especially likely to occur.

750 thousand isn't that much in a country with a population of over 300 million. Vulnerable groups can easily self-quarantine, those that are most likely to die are those that can't take care of themselves and would probably die soon anyways. There's not much dignity left in life for those that lives in the hospital or can't take a shower or get dressed by themselves. Survival of the fittest.

ShooBree

08-13-20, 06:48

NY has no more reached "herd immunity" than Georgia is "doing fine. ".

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/roughly-25percent-of-new-york-city-has-probably-been-infected-with-coronavirus-dr-scott-gottlieb-says.html

Oh how easy it is to lie in a monger forum. The supply of such is inexhaustible.Yeah, I've noticed that you like to lie.

The low number of deaths in NY is a result of herd immunity. There's no coincidence that the regions and cities with the highest death toll experiences the same pattern, and that's regardless of their strategy. San Marino haven't reported a COVID-19 related death since the 23 d of May. It's called herd immunity, but I'm sure that you're extremely impressed by San Marino and their fight against Corona.

https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/herd-immunity-may-be-closer-than-you-think-11594076237

https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20200731/Research-suggests-New-York-City-may-have-reached-coronavirus-herd-immunity-threshold.aspx

Waiting for a effective vaccine (which may most likely never come) is not an option. When will you wake up and smell the coffee?

JjBee62

08-13-20, 19:10

She doesn't seem to be especially competent, much more competent and higher ranked epidemiologist predicts a lower death toll. Her guess isn't especially likely to occur.

750 thousand isn't that much in a country with a population of over 300 million. Vulnerable groups can easily self-quarantine, those that are most likely to die are those that can't take care of themselves and would probably die soon anyways. There's not much dignity left in life for those that lives in the hospital or can't take a shower or get dressed by themselves. Survival of the fittest.If "survival of the fittest" requires critical thinking skills, you might want to start making funeral arrangements.

750 thousand isn't that much? I think most people would disagree. About 3000 people died in the US from the 9/11 attacks and the US has spent about $7 trillion in response. 4 people died in the Benghazi attack and the US spent $7 million investigating. With covid we're barely 20% of the way there and everyone is already screaming about the cost.

Of course we still have no evidence herd immunity is a possibility with this virus, so sacrificing several million people around the world for an unknown result seems like a bad idea.

Zeos1

08-13-20, 19:41

Yeah, I've noticed that you like to lie.

The low number of deaths in NY is a result of herd immunity. There's no coincidence that the regions and cities with the highest death toll experiences the same pattern, and that's regardless of their strategy. San Marino haven't reported a COVID-19 related death since the 23 d of May. It's called herd immunity, but I'm sure that you're extremely impressed by San Marino and their fight against Corona.

https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/herd-immunity-may-be-closer-than-you-think-11594076237

https://www.google.se/amp/s/www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20200731/Research-suggests-New-York-City-may-have-reached-coronavirus-herd-immunity-threshold.aspx

Waiting for a effective vaccine (which may most likely never come) is not an option. When will you wake up and smell the coffee?BS. Piled higher and deeper. I'm sure you've found websites. Good for you. Show me herd immunity for the other common Coronovirus, the common cold. There is herd immunity to some things because of vaccines. Other than that I know of no other example in humans. If it even could happen with this virus, we've got a long long ways to go.

Places change their strategies, as New York has done. And by keeping people apart you certainly can stop this virus.

JjBee62

08-13-20, 21:14

BS. Piled higher and deeper. I'm sure you've found websites. Good for you. Show me herd immunity for the other common Coronovirus, the common cold. There is herd immunity to some things because of vaccines. Other than that I know of no other example in humans. If it even could happen with this virus, we've got a long long ways to go.

Places change their strategies, as New York has done. And by keeping people apart you certainly can stop this virus.I had to look up to see how San Marino dealt with the virus. Strangely enough couldn't find one mention of "herd immunity. " However, with only around 700 cases with a population of 33,000, even if the threshold is 20%, which only an idiot would believe, they're still about 18% short. Although if we assume the disease can only be transmitted while having sex with a yodeling nun who has no teeth and a giant wart on her nose, while juggling 6 live cobras, underwater, then 2% is probably enough for herd immunity.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/25/can-san-marino-s-aggressive-covid-19-testing-strategy-save-europe

ShooBree

08-13-20, 23:47

If "survival of the fittest" requires critical thinking skills, you might want to start making funeral arrangements.

750 thousand isn't that much? I think most people would disagree. About 3000 people died in the US from the 9/11 attacks and the US has spent about $7 trillion in response. 4 people died in the Benghazi attack and the US spent $7 million investigating. With covid we're barely 20% of the way there and everyone is already screaming about the cost.

Of course we still have no evidence herd immunity is a possibility with this virus, so sacrificing several million people around the world for an unknown result seems like a bad idea.Look at that, the pot calling the kettle black.

3 millions dies every year in the US, the Coronavirus might in the worst case scenario take 660'000 lives in the US. Put in perspective it's not that much. Over 30 million lost their jobs because of the lockdowns, that is much! For each corona related death over a hundred lost their jobs. That's extreme. Furthermore, the ones dying aren't the ones with bright futures ahead. It's the ones with no future, it's the weak and old that have lived their lives and are now getting ready for their final rest. Normal people that can take care of themselves can self-quarantine without any problems.

Sacrificing the economy and the future of a generation is unacceptable. The experiment with lockdowns needs to end. We have no successful vaccine on the horizon and we can't keep locking up healthy people that have nothing to fear from the pathetic virus that can only kill the weakest.

ShooBree

08-13-20, 23:53

BS. Piled higher and deeper. I'm sure you've found websites. Good for you. Show me herd immunity for the other common Coronovirus, the common cold. There is herd immunity to some things because of vaccines. Other than that I know of no other example in humans. If it even could happen with this virus, we've got a long long ways to go.

Places change their strategies, as New York has done. And by keeping people apart you certainly can stop this virus.Where's your evidence of it not being herd immunity?

NY is seeing the effects of herd immunity, Sweden didn't change their strategy yet they are seeing a sharp decrease in number of Corona related deaths. There are no real evidence against that.

Well, if we are going to compare it to the common cold the only way forward is to simply live with it. The low mortality rate most certainly enable us to live life as normal.

ShooBree

08-14-20, 00:05

I had to look up to see how San Marino dealt with the virus. Strangely enough couldn't find one mention of "herd immunity. " However, with only around 700 cases with a population of 33,000, even if the threshold is 20%, which only an idiot would believe, they're still about 18% short. Although if we assume the disease can only be transmitted while having sex with a yodeling nun who has no teeth and a giant wart on her nose, while juggling 6 live cobras, underwater, then 2% is probably enough for herd immunity.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/04/25/can-san-marino-s-aggressive-covid-19-testing-strategy-save-europeI would be really embarrassed if I thought that San Marino didn't have any unreported cases of corona, especially considering that it's the country worst affected of the virus in the world. Only a complete moron would even if entertain that thought.

I for one would love to hear how come San Marino was so unlucky to have a death rate twice the one of the US. USA, the country known for their serious health problems among the population. It's so weird that the experts are talking about a mortality rate in the range of 0.2-1.0%, but in San Marino they have a mortality rate of over 6%. That blows my mind.

JjBee62

08-14-20, 20:17

Look at that, the pot calling the kettle black.

3 millions dies every year in the US, the Coronavirus might in the worst case scenario take 660'000 lives in the US. Put in perspective it's not that much. Over 30 million lost their jobs because of the lockdowns, that is much! For each corona related death over a hundred lost their jobs. That's extreme. Furthermore, the ones dying aren't the ones with bright futures ahead. It's the ones with no future, it's the weak and old that have lived their lives and are now getting ready for their final rest. Normal people that can take care of themselves can self-quarantine without any problems.

Sacrificing the economy and the future of a generation is unacceptable. The experiment with lockdowns needs to end. We have no successful vaccine on the horizon and we can't keep locking up healthy people that have nothing to fear from the pathetic virus that can only kill the weakest.Why can't any of you stupid fucks do basic math? Seriously? I sort of understand it from the US, because the country has been embracing ignorance as a virtue for decades, but I thought Europe was better.

Using your numbers, because I don't want to put any extra strain on the 9 pissants you're using in lieu of a brain, 660,000 additional deaths would be an increase in the annual number of deaths of more than 20%. Put in perspective, that's a huge fucking jump. Even the 200,000 which currently looks unavoidable for the US represents a 7% increase in number of deaths.

Another question. Why can't any of you stupid fucks understand that nobody is "sacrificing the economy?" During a global pandemic, especially one of this magnitude, the economy is going to suffer. Whether you do nothing, or you take extreme measures, the economy is going to take a hit. The question is:

Is it better to put the economy on pause for 12 weeks, while you get a handle on the spread of disease, or is it better to let the disease run it's course and let the economy suffer indefinitely?

My belief is that a 12 week shutdown, followed by an extended period of mandated mask usage, represents a manageable, and more importantly predictable, retraction of the economy. Look at any of the countries which successfully followed this route and it appears to have worked. I'm not hearing about a generation of South Koreans having their future sacrificed. I'm not reading about the economic devastation in New Zealand and Taiwan. Nobody is reporting on the collapse of civilization in Germany.

On the other hand, the problems and hits to the economy continue in the US, after reopening too soon. Unemployment is still very high, productivity is down, many industries are struggling. There's currently no sunny day on the horizon for the US, economically.

Now, for all those people who you consider useless and with no future, I disagree. You're stating that anyone 65 or older, or anyone with a long list of high risk factors is better off dead. If that's your belief, what have you done in the past to make this a matter of public policy? Have you advocated that no person 65 or older be allowed to hold public office? Have you protested that no person 65 or older should be allowed any form of employment or public assistance? You've stated they have no potential, no life ahead of them, why is it that only now you've decided it's acceptable to sacrifice them?

Here's a nice number for you: 311. Any guesses what 311 represents? It represents about 1 of every 3 Nobel Prize winners. Of the 919 individuals awarded Nobel Prizes, 311 were 65 or older at the time of award, with the oldest being 90.311 useless people with nothing to contribute.

At the time of the American Revolution Benjamin Franklin, arguably the architect of the revolution, was 70 years old.

Anna Mary Robertson Moses, more commonly known as "Grandma Moses" didn't begin painting until she was 78.

Paul Dirac was still contributing to the field of physics well into his 70's.

Galileo Galilei was 68 when he wrote "Concerning the Two Chief World Systems."

Max Planck's contributions to physics continued well into his 70's.

Even Donald Trump was 70 years old when he became President.

The arts, sciences and even politics are full of examples of people with a great deal to contribute, even with poor health or at an advanced age. Many of the people who frequent this forum are either already in the group that you're happy to kill off, or they're close enough to see that day coming.

Yet, you've decided that all those people need to die. Are you willing to put yourself on the chopping block too? You're ready, willing and eager to kill off anyone else who has a high risk factor. Will you commit your own life to that ideal? It's quite simple. On the day you turn 65, or on the day when you are diagnosed with any condition which puts you in the high risk group for coronavirus, stop eating, stop drinking. Stop being what you've declared is useless. Note that if you are prescribed any medications which depress your auto-immune system, you automatically enter the high risk group, regardless of age.

Or does your willingness to kill only apply to others?

JjBee62

08-14-20, 20:38

Where's your evidence of it not being herd immunity?

NY is seeing the effects of herd immunity, Sweden didn't change their strategy yet they are seeing a sharp decrease in number of Corona related deaths. There are no real evidence against that.

Well, if we are going to compare it to the common cold the only way forward is to simply live with it. The low mortality rate most certainly enable us to live life as normal.Another thing these stupid fucks can't seem to grasp, basic scientific principles. Is Sweden's education system really that bad, or are you just abnormally stupid?

It's impossible to prove a negative.

Here's a simple example:

A clueless fucking idiot claims "herd immunity" is responsible for any city or country which has seen a drop in the number of new cases of coronavirus infection. The shit for brains fuckwad provides no evidence, nothing other than the baseless and frankly moronic claim that "herd immunity" is responsible.

Even if you run an antibody test on 100% of the population, the ass candy munching, cockless imbecile will insist the tests are flawed, the threshold for "herd immunity" is lower, or that some bizarre conspiracy is in play. There's simply no way to overcome the entrenched ignorance of such mentally challenged shitstains.

Science doesn't work that way. Instead of trying to prove that a giant ravenous monster doesn't either take a bite out of the moon each night, or regurgitate it, science notes the orbital path and period of the moon in relation to the rotation of the Earth and shows the changing phase of the moon is merely a matter of perspective, rather than a change in the size and shape of the moon.

JjBee62

08-14-20, 21:18

I would be really embarrassed if I thought that San Marino didn't have any unreported cases of corona, especially considering that it's the country worst affected of the virus in the world. Only a complete moron would even if entertain that thought.

I for one would love to hear how come San Marino was so unlucky to have a death rate twice the one of the US. USA, the country known for their serious health problems among the population. It's so weird that the experts are talking about a mortality rate in the range of 0.2-1.0%, but in San Marino they have a mortality rate of over 6%. That blows my mind.You should be really embarrassed. Well, your parents should be really embarrassed, as I'm certain they are.

If you had bothered to read the link you would have noted. Sorry. A person with an IQ over 75 would have noted that San Marino has tested 5. 6% of their population, much more than any other European country. The next closest is Italy at 1. 6%. That gives them a better idea of how many actual cases versus known cases. It also makes your claim of "herd immunity" even less plausible, as they are aggressively testing for antibodies in order to track down potential outbreaks.

Your "herd immunity" assumption requires at least another 21,000 undetected cases in addition to the 700 detected cases. Even if it only takes 20% to achieve "herd immunity" that requires an additional 6,000 undetected cases, without any of those additional cases resulting in deaths.

You can't have it both ways you dumb fucking swallower. If you have a 10 to 300 times increase in cases, to achieve herd immunity, with only 42 deaths the mortality rate drops down to practically nothing. So which is it? Did San Marino somehow miss 90-97% of their cases to achieve herd immunity? Or is the mortality rate for San Marino actually between 0. 2-0. 6%?

As you clowns constantly do, you pick whatever data point you think supports your position and throw everything at it.

However, San Marino is too small of a population for worldwide statistical modeling. In addition, it's average age is higher than Italy's, although not much. More people in the high risk group means higher mortality rate.

6% for San Marino? New York City had 10%. Stockholm had 10%. Cochabamba, Bolivia 10%. You can't compare San Marino to the US, just as you can't compare Stockholm to the US state of Montana. But since you want to do it, let's go for it.

Stockholm mortality rate 10.32%.

Montana mortality rate 1.46%.

Now go apologize to your parents.

Elvis 2008

08-14-20, 22:10

I for one would love to hear how come San Marino was so unlucky to have a death rate twice the one of the US. USA, the country known for their serious health problems among the population. It's so weird that the experts are talking about a mortality rate in the range of 0.2-1.0%, but in San Marino they have a mortality rate of over 6%. That blows my mind.The problem with all this mathematical nonsense is that you have to make an assumption that the environment does not matter (it does), the virus does not have more deadly or contagious mutations (it does), and so all the calculations on death are stupid, and here is why.

Every single one of these calculations is based on the virus continuing on the same path it is now and people reacting to it the same way which are the very things that for certain will not happen.

The calculations on herd immunity are based on how contagious the virus is, and the number of deaths are based upon how deadly the virus is. To get an accurate answer is impossible as not only is the virus changing but how people are being treated for it has changed, behaviors have changed, and what age group gets infected may change. The notion that in the USA we need to reach 750,000 deaths to reach herd immunity is mental masturbation.

On top of that, there is some evidence that prior exposure to a corona virus may also confer immunity in which case herd immunity could be achieved at 20% of the population being infected. That was the magic number on the Diamond Princess cruise ship.

But I do not know what that number is and the so called experts do not either. At best, you may get so called expert consensus based on shit data.

In this red-blue world, the divide is now between the vaccine and herd immunity which is a false choice. We are going to have live with the virus and re calibrate our policies to reflect what has worked and what has not and make our goals realistic. That is what has bugged me so much. That recalibration is not being done.

I will tell you that Covid has been good to me, and part of this is that I have done the recalibration in my personal life. What does it say about that fucker Fauci being at a ball game without a mask on? I will tell you this. I have been doing similar things, but I am not getting paid to be a public expert. What Fauci was doing was totally safe. He just does not have the balls to admit it.

Elvis 2008

08-14-20, 23:24

Unfortunately the lock downs in Colombia have not been as effective as in other Countries as evidenced by the trending numbers to date. Everything is going up like a rocket ship headed to the moon.

Tourism, well it's really a drop in the bucket for Colombia, what needs to happen is for the economy to open back up so the residents can spend money and revive things.That is a good point. We can gripe about the travel ban but the lockdown has hurt the Colombian economy far more.

Unfortunately, if they do so, things will get worse than they are now as evidenced by other Countries and in the USA that have opened up pre-maturely. The lockdowns have been effective in Countries with authoritarian rule, or citizens that abide by them, and have been less effective in third world countries.Nah. I get why you would think that though. That is the old explanation based on old data. It is an explanation that benefits the libtards and Demorats wanting to get Trump out of office where government policy is all that matters with spread of the virus. To be sure, Trump and people under him have made mistakes, but that is only part of the reason for the viral spread.

There is a much more infectious mutation, and it is just one of them: https://www.biospace.com/article/mutated-covid-19-viral-strain-in-us-and-europe-much-more-contagious/.

Mutated COVID-19 Viral Strain in USA And Europe 10 Times More Contagious than Original Strain.

Then you look at this much more detailed report: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2020.01800/full#F4.

Generally, the G and GR clades are prevalently present in Europe, while the clade S and GH have been mostly observed in the Americas (Figure 4). The "L" reference clade is mostly represented by sequences from Asia.

It is interesting to note that Asia, initially characterized by reference sequences, is currently observing a rise in G, GH, and GR genomes, which gained ground in the continent at the beginning of March 2020, more than 1 month after the appearance of these clades in Europe.

Here is a link to figure showing the various clades of virus based on location: https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/555497/fmicb-11-01800-HTML/image_m/fmicb-11-01800-g005.jpg.

So I get what you are saying. You look at China and a lesser degree Europe and say, "Hey, lock downs work. " but then you look at the Americas, and they have not. The explanation is that people in the Americas are lazy, non compliant dumb asses when in reality, the virus mutated, and the experts do not want to admit they fucked up with the advice they gave.

Paulie97

08-15-20, 00:23

Furthermore, the ones dying aren't the ones with bright futures ahead. It's the ones with no future, it's the weak and old that have lived their lives and are now getting ready for their final rest.Myself and others have pointed out the slew of fallacies employed by Elvirus, most prominently goal posts shifts, non-sequitors, and strawmen. This Shoobrees though habitually employs the fallacy of the adnaseum or "proof by repetition. " This involves repeating the same claim over and over even though it has been effectively exposed as false. So what do you do? You just put the evidence to the contrary back in their face again. They of course are free to continue ignoring it and lying, nonetheless they have been exposed.

Covid causes more than death. Many suffer long term, debilitating symptoms and permanent damage is possible.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/feature...gzy-story.html

Though it primarily effects elders the young don't get a pass.

https://www.wfla.com/community/healt...19-in-florida/

https://fox59.com/news/coronavirus/2...erge-of-death/

There's also evidence of serious neurological effects in small children.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87378

Scroll down and review the CDC data on deaths. Plenty of the 54 and under crowd are effected.

https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisiona...nd-S/9bhg-hcku

There's also plenty of people 60 years old and beyond that enjoy much quality of life, further solidifying the above, sweeping statement as a lie.

ShooBree

08-15-20, 09:58

You should be really embarrassed. Well, your parents should be really embarrassed, as I'm certain they are.

If you had bothered to read the link you would have noted. Sorry. A person with an IQ over 75 would have noted that San Marino has tested 5. 6% of their population, much more than any other European country. The next closest is Italy at 1. 6%. That gives them a better idea of how many actual cases versus known cases. It also makes your claim of "herd immunity" even less plausible, as they are aggressively testing for antibodies in order to track down potential outbreaks.

Your "herd immunity" assumption requires at least another 21,000 undetected cases in addition to the 700 detected cases. Even if it only takes 20% to achieve "herd immunity" that requires an additional 6,000 undetected cases, without any of those additional cases resulting in deaths.

You can't have it both ways you dumb fucking swallower. If you have a 10 to 300 times increase in cases, to achieve herd immunity, with only 42 deaths the mortality rate drops down to practically nothing. So which is it? Did San Marino somehow miss 90-97% of their cases to achieve herd immunity? Or is the mortality rate for San Marino actually between 0. 2-0. 6%?.If you test 5. 6% you can never find out if more than 5. 6% of the population have been infected. Pretty obvious to me. To find the total number of infected you have to test for T-cells and antibodies as well. Given the number of deaths and the 0. 2% IFR predicted by the CDC it's easy to calculate that approximately 60% of the population in San Marino been infected of the virus. The known COVID-19 cases are only the tip of the iceberg. The threshold of herd immunity is unknown but not unlikely around 40% of the population.

I'm laughing my ass of since the experts and I have understood for a long time that the actual IFR is 0. 2-1. 0%, not 6-10% as you seem to believe. You are the perfect poster boy for the Dunning-Kruger Effect. Your insults are pure compliments.

ShooBree

08-15-20, 10:18

Why can't any of you stupid fucks do basic math? Seriously? I sort of understand it from the US, because the country has been embracing ignorance as a virtue for decades, but I thought Europe was better.

Using your numbers, because I don't want to put any extra strain on the 9 pissants you're using in lieu of a brain, 660,000 additional deaths would be an increase in the annual number of deaths of more than 20%. Put in perspective, that's a huge fucking jump. Even the 200,000 which currently looks unavoidable for the US represents a 7% increase in number of deaths.

Another question. Why can't any of you stupid fucks understand that nobody is "sacrificing the economy?" During a global pandemic, especially one of this magnitude, the economy is going to suffer. Whether you do nothing, or you take extreme measures, the economy is going to take a hit. The question is:

Is it better to put the economy on pause for 12 weeks, while you get a handle on the spread of disease, or is it better to let the disease run it's course and let the economy suffer indefinitely?

My belief is that a 12 week shutdown, followed by an extended period of mandated mask usage, represents a manageable, and more importantly predictable, retraction of the economy.The poster boy of the Dunning-Kruger Effect strikes again! You haven't understood a first thing about what I wrote. You truly are a demagogue. Have you ever heard of the exceptions to the rule? You choosing to present extreme statistical outliers only strengthen my point. As far as I know both Trump and Bolsonaro are alive and well. Why? Because the virus only kills the weakest.

I live my life as normal, if I die I die. There are no special rules for me. If someone dies because I live my life as normal, then it's meant to be.

That you haven't heard anything about Germans struggling is only because you're ignorant.

Mr Enternational

08-15-20, 17:23

Nah. I get why you would think that though. That is the old explanation based on old data. It is an explanation that benefits the libtards and Demorats wanting to get Trump out of office where government policy is all that matters with spread of the virus. To be sure, Trump and people under him have made mistakes, but that is only part of the reason for the viral spread.

So I get what you are saying. You look at China and a lesser degree Europe and say, "Hey, lock downs work. " but then you look at the Americas, and they have not. The explanation is that people in the Americas are lazy, non compliant dumb asses when in reality, the virus mutated, and the experts do not want to admit they fucked up with the advice they gave.This makes no sense at all. Unless the mutation involves the virus growing legs and opening doors, then there is no way for it to come from you in your house to me in my house usurping a lockdown. Good thing for me is that I lived under the old data in Thailand where the lockdown and mask wearing worked to eradicate the virus here with only 58 deaths and no need to sacrifice people in the name of the economy, regardless of how healthy or unhealthy they are.

This is a world of 195 countires. Not all of them revolve around libtards, Demorats, or Trump, yet many still are having problems with the virus.

Mr Enternational

08-15-20, 17:41

For each corona related death over a hundred lost their jobs. That's extreme. Furthermore, the ones dying aren't the ones with bright futures ahead. It's the ones with no future, it's the weak and old that have lived their lives and are now getting ready for their final rest. Sounds pretty simple and bright until it hits home and you have a friend the same age that died from the virus last week leaving behind small kids. I am sure my buddy and his wife and kids would have much rather he lost his job (which he did not) than his life. You can live without a job. You don't have to worry about having a job if you are dead.

ShooBree

08-15-20, 20:01

Sounds pretty simple and bright until it hits home and you have a friend the same age that died from the virus last week leaving behind small kids. I am sure my buddy and his wife and kids would have much rather he lost his job (which he did not) than his life. You can live without a job. You don't have to worry about having a job if you are dead.A dear colleague passed away last week in Singapore. He died in cancer, if we had more routine check ups for cancer he probably would have been alive today. Does that mean that I want to turn the world upside down to ensure a monthly check for cancer? No. He died, it's tragic for his family and friends. I sure do mourn his death. People die, that's life. People die in traffic accidents, does it mean that I want ban all cars, trains and airplanes? No.

Your friend could just as well have died in a traffic accident.

A person losing his job might just as well wind up committing suicide.

I don't want to ban cars because there's a traffic accident and I don't support lockdowns because some weak mf: er couldn't handle the virus.

ShooBree

08-15-20, 20:25

Myself and others have pointed out the slew of fallacies employed by Elvirus, most prominently goal posts shifts, non-sequitors, and strawmen. This Shoobrees though habitually employs the fallacy of the adnaseum or "proof by repetition. " This involves repeating the same claim over and over even though it has been effectively exposed as false. So what do you do? You just put the evidence to the contrary back in their face again. They of course are free to continue ignoring it and lying, nonetheless they have been exposed.

Covid causes more than death. Many suffer long term, debilitating symptoms and permanent damage is possible..Oh gosh, you truly don't have any real arguments, you only have your lies. Nothing that I wrote has been proven wrong.

It's ridiculous that you don't understand how this virus works and who are dying. It's mainly old people in nursing homes that can't take care of themselves. To me people that can't take care of themselves are not worth as much as others. If you're 60+ you can easily self quarantine, problem solved. There's no need for people under 50 to be locked up. Each man for himself. If you want to preach solidarity maybe you should stop using desperate ladies that would never give you a second of their time otherwise.

You present statistically outliers that are not interesting when looking at the bigger picture.

Paulie97

08-15-20, 20:47

ShooBree

08-16-20, 00:12

Paulie97

08-16-20, 01:58

Oh gosh, you truly don't have any real arguments, you only have your lies. Nothing that I wrote has been proven wrong.

It's ridiculous that you don't understand how this virus works and who are dying. It's mainly old people in nursing homes that can't take care of themselves. To me people that can't take care of themselves are not worth as much as others. If you're 60+ you can easily self quarantine, problem solved. There's no need for people under 50 to be locked up. Each man for himself. If you want to preach solidarity maybe you should stop using desperate ladies that would never give you a second of their time otherwise.

You present statistically outliers that are not interesting when looking at the bigger picture.Yo twerp, hardly statistical outliers when less than 50% of Covid deaths are nursing home related. 12,065 of the approximately 150,000 deaths in the US as of August 8th were of people under the age of 54. See attachment. Most of the rest were not in nursing homes and enjoyed quality of life. Covid also is known to cause a long term syndrome involving muliple organs in many survivors that may at times be permanent. Studies have also exposed neurological deficits in some small children. This once again overwhelmingly refutes this prior asinine statement from you.

Furthermore, the ones dying aren't the ones with bright futures ahead. It's the ones with no future, it's the weak and old that have lived their lives and are now getting ready for their final rest. You've also employed a strawman. No one is suggesting that anyone be locked up but that reasonable practices are implemented, masks, social distancing, widespread testing and contact tracing, all of which have been demontrated as highly effective many places.

And this:

If you want to preach solidarity maybe you should stop using desperate ladies that would never give you a second of their time otherwise. LOLOL Now Now. What an onery little wuss we have here. Preaching on a monger board against using legal prostitution. What's the matter? Obviously getting caught lying time and again doesn't sit well with you. Nor did it when it was called to your attention that you and your country sacrificed 5000+ lives, 11 times the per capita death rate of your neighbor Norway in a failed, foolish experment.

Lasty, fallacies employed by the boy in this post:

Ad nauseam, by repeating the same false assertions over and over even though they have been repeatedly, effectively rebutted.

Strawman, when he talks about people being "locked up" when that isn't the recommendation, outside of some temporary quarantines with restricted movements in some hard hit places.

And ad hominem, attacking his opponent in a monger forum for enjoying hookers which has nothing to do with this Covid-19 discussion.

Logical fallacies, you and Elvirus have it going on. Such are the only refuge for the ill-educated and / or those that want to keep arguing long after their position has been destroyed.

Elvis 2008

08-16-20, 03:39

ME, you cannot have it both ways. You cannot believe the virus is spread by droplets and then support Fauci and his hand washing decrees and his call for not wearing masks. If that does not make sense to you, then you do not understand the two thought processes of how the virus is spread.

Good thing for me is that I lived under the old data in Thailand where the lockdown and mask wearing worked to eradicate the virus here with only 58 deaths and no need to sacrifice people in the name of the economy, regardless of how healthy or unhealthy they are.Eradicated? It is more like slowed the spread of the least infectious variant of the virus. The virus raging through India is a more infectious mutation and to me it coming to Thailand is just a matter of time.

Elvis 2008

08-16-20, 03:53

Habitually lying day after day for months in a monger forum, like Elvirus and Shoobree, is certainly at least as sad an existence as someone vegging out in a nursing home watching TV but can't his shoes. Yet no one is calling for these losers to be purged from the earth. For that they should feel fortunate.Yeah, I can see for someone like you Mr. New York New York that it would be lying. Anyone who disagrees with you is lying, involved in irrational fantasies ETC. It is not like you engage in logical fallacies. "You want Colombia to open up so you can get cheap pussy."

Zero Hedge linked this article from the UK telegraph: https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/sweden-hit-rare-covid-triple-whammy-no-lockdowns-low-deaths-minimal-economic-damage.

Out of the three options, Sweden took option 2 while most of the rest of the world took a variant of option 3.

Of course, to you, taking option 2 was complete and other failure. It is too bad that some of the people of the UK disagree with you.

Thing is an article like this could never be written in the USA. Such an article would be tossed in the trash in the USA and claimed to be costing lives, the author stupid ETC. It is funny to losers like you New York New York think that descent equals stupidity.

It is funny how New York New York, you never comment on JJBee's logical missteps: attacking the source instead of disproving the facts, making bold mathematical statements based on estimated data, every time Fauci is quoted the context is off, and the ad hominem attacks. In fact, here you are engaging in the same ad hominem type attack.

Of course, that IS the Demorat libtard way. Nothing is illogical if you are attacking the Republican POV. Most Republicans I know want a variant of option 2. Most Demorats want option 3 not because it saves more lives but because IMO destroying the economy gets rid of Trump.

Mr Enternational

08-16-20, 03:57

People die in traffic accidents, does it mean that I want ban all cars, trains and airplanes? No.These modes of transportation have also developed safety standards in order to curtail injuries and death that nobody is arguing with. Nobody is running around talking about fuck those seat belts, fuck that bolt that is holding the wing on, fuck that ABS the way they are talking about fuck those masks and fuck distancing and fuck people that may not be as healthy or young as others. The way you talk they should have let the Boeing 737 Max keep flying around and may the fittest people survive the crashes because we would not want Boeing employees to lose jobs and kill themselves.

Paulie97

08-16-20, 04:58

People die, that's life. People die in traffic accidents, does it mean that I want ban all cars, trains and airplanes? Yet another logical fallacy, and a glaring one that MrE well exposed in post #521.

Add False Analogy to the list. It's getting long.

https://www.thoughtco.com/false-analogy-fallacy-1690850

ShooBree

08-17-20, 07:10

Yet another logical fallacy, and a glaring one that MrE well exposed in post #521.

Add False Analogy to the list. It's getting long.

https://www.thoughtco.com/false-analogy-fallacy-1690850As usual you got it wrong, and the logical fallacy are you standing for.

It's pathetic that you don't have any real arguments. You really live up to the repetition you Americans have across the world.

ShooBree

08-17-20, 07:17

These modes of transportation have also developed safety standards in order to curtail injuries and death that nobody is arguing with. Nobody is running around talking about fuck those seat belts, fuck that bolt that is holding the wing on, fuck that ABS the way they are talking about fuck those masks and fuck distancing and fuck people that may not be as healthy or young as others. The way you talk they should have let the Boeing 737 Max keep flying around and may the fittest people survive the crashes because we would not want Boeing employees to lose jobs and kill themselves.But people still die in large scales despite these measures, yet we don't ban cars, trains nor planes.

So no one are exceeding the speed limits, thank you for the laugh. A lockdown is the equivalent of banning cars.

Elvis 2008

08-17-20, 13:56

Yet another logical fallacy, and a glaring one that MrE well exposed in post #521.

Add False Analogy to the list. It's getting long.

https://www.thoughtco.com/false-analogy-fallacy-1690850Really? How is a comparison to risks and benefits a false analogy?

Oh, I forgot. To a pompous ass like you New York New York who knows everything there is to know about a brand new virus and what is best for everyone, it would be a false analogy but to the rest of who are still uncertain about what works and what does not, it is an apt analogy.

When I quote Fauci being dead wrong about something, that is not illogical thinking, that is taking him out of context.

When scientists change the number on the percentage required for herd immunity, that is not moving the goal posts. No, only I do that.

You presented a Yale study but their projections were dead wrong. The response to their being wrong was, Peru and Peruvians suck, which you called well reasoned.

You are not objective and logical New York New York. You are one of the most arrogant and subjective people I have known on line and in real life. Anyone who shares your point of view is well reasoned. Anyone against it is stupid, a typical Demorat trait; all Republicans are stupid!

You remind of a fat woman I saw on a bike at the gym with the sweat oozing out of every pore of her body. What oozes off of you is not sweat but arrogance, and you make her look good in comparison. How is that for a false analogy?

Elvis 2008

08-17-20, 14:03

Run by someone showing real leadership!

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/gov-cuomos-controversial-order-requiring-nursing-homes-to-admit-covid-19-patients-was-reportedly-removed-from-new-yorks-health-website/ar-BB14GiNL

Gov. Andrew Cuomo's March 25 order that required nursing homes to admit patients who were suspected to have or had tested positive for COVID-19 has been deleted from the state of New York's website, Fox News reported Tuesday.

JJBirdbrain and Paulie, Mr. New York New York respond, "Oh Fox News? Pfft!

It was the single dumbest decision anyone could make if they wanted to kill people," Daniel Arbeeny, whose 88-year-old father died of COVID-19 after he removed him from a Brooklyn nursing facility, told the Associated Press.

Or in Mr. New York New York's POV, it was brilliant.

As the AP reported, Cuomo reportedly ordered over 4,300 recovering COVID-19 patients to be sent to nursing homes. At least 5,800 people have died of COVID-19 in New York State nursing homes or adult care facilities.

And here we have why Mr. New York New York on the proper way of accepting responsibility.

"New York followed the president's agencies' guidance," Cuomo said during a press conference on Saturday. "What New York did was follow what the Republican Administration said to do. That's not my attempt to politicize it. It's my attempt to depoliticize it. So don't criticize the state for following the president's policy. ".

YippieKayay

08-31-20, 17:11

The Ministry of Health, however, stated on Tuesday, that "conditions no longer warrant the closure of international flights to and from the large capitals of the country. : And having given the green light for airlines to relaunch international routes, the Ministry claims that "it is unlikely" that inbound passengers will increase the risk of coronavirus transmission.

The first countries that have been approved for arrivals and departures are Chile, Panama, USA, Ecuador and Peru.This minister sounds like Baldrick from Black Adder. He has a cunning plan. In order to ensure the safety of our already heavily infected population we will be opening our borders to countries with endemic levels of COVID-19. It's a cunning plan indeed.

Knowledge

08-31-20, 18:28

Blakman,

Your update is almost a week old. Did you factor any of this in before you posted that you decided you would not come due to perceived risks?

The Ministry of Health, however, stated on Tuesday, that "conditions no longer warrant the closure of international flights to and from the large capitals of the country. : And having given the green light for airlines to relaunch international routes, the Ministry claims that "it is unlikely" that inbound passengers will increase the risk of coronavirus transmission.

The first countries that have been approved for arrivals and departures are Chile, Panama, USA, Ecuador and Peru.

Black Page

08-31-20, 23:57

My ticket is purchased for end of September, so deep down I am rooting for sjob to get in LOL. My daughter says I am impulsive so maybe it was impulsive reaction LOL.
.You are not bringing her to Medellin with you, right?

Blakman

09-01-20, 00:10

Dude. You must be a trump voter

you are not bringing her to medellin with you, right?.

Black Page

09-01-20, 00:31

Dude. You must be a trump voter.I take it as a "NO, NEVER".

Hasideas Tao

09-01-20, 13:13

It seems likely travelers will need to present proof of a negative Covid test shortly before flying.

Does anyone have more info on this? Any idea of what that proof will need to look like?

Surely a text message from your free Covid testing center at the park will not be sufficient.

Any good ideas?

Puntz79

09-01-20, 15:39

This minister sounds like Baldrick from Black Adder. He has a cunning plan. In order to ensure the safety of our already heavily infected population we will be opening our borders to countries with endemic levels of COVID-19. It's a cunning plan indeed.Well why would that be a cunning plan? It makes no sense to keep the borders closed. If there is testing on arrival or before departure, and you make it a requirement to have health insurance what more would you expect? After 6 months, assuming 10 x the actual number of confirmed cases have the virus. There is literally no reason to keep borders closed. If you feel uncomfortable, stay at home and wear a mask 24/7. Peru has had their borders closed and lockdowns for how many months now? Today they see the highest fatality rates, proving once again that lockdowns are useless and only delay the inevitable. Look at Argentina and Panama that did the same thing, cases skyrocketing while thinking that keeping things closed along with borders would help. Nope, not even close. When most cases are found to be people with no symptoms, or very mild symptoms the justification to keep borders closed looks more silly with each week that passes. Well done to the Colombian government for at least sticking to a timeline which is a surprise, I am sure that this will help the economy get back on its feet albeit slowly, there won't be any significant case rise nor deaths, and the general sentiment I get from Colombian colleagues is they just want to move forward from this as it has been mentally draining and created more problems for them, their family and their economy. Can't let the supposed cure be worse than the disease itself, which has mutated into a virus with very mild symptoms of any. Positivity for the win.

Knowledge

09-01-20, 15:44

Why do you say "it seems likely"? On what do you base that statement? Thank you in advance for any information to which we can respond. Meanwhile, I can share that as of this morning there are no Colombia immigration or presidential statements or guidelines on the subject. This is why I am curious about your statement.

It seems likely travelers will need to present proof of a negative Covid test shortly before flying.

Does anyone have more info on this? Any idea of what that proof will need to look like?

Surely a text message from your free Covid testing center at the park will not be sufficient.

Any good ideas?

SJobs

09-01-20, 17:06

I think this is as official as it gets. The debate and wait is basically over. Hopefully soon, we all can get back to talking about banging 18-year-olds instead of becoming a covid expert and travel media guru.

https://idm.presidencia.gov.co/prensa/Paginas/En-septiembre-tendremos-pilotos-de-vuelos-internacionales-Presidente-Duque-200830.aspx

Black Page

09-01-20, 17:46

Excuse me if I am harsh, but what is the point of exhibiting very basic ignorance on a topic, shameless or even proud? I do not try to lecture anyone on Theory of Harmony, even if when I was teen I enjoyed strumming chords on my guitar.

It makes no sense to keep the borders closed. There is literally no reason to keep borders closed.Even if you ignore it and do not see the reason, the basics of Epidemiology (a branch of math Control Theory) show the effect of people mobility on the spreading. It's math, not an opinion.

proving once again that lockdowns are useless and only delay the inevitable.Not only delay the inevitable. Reduce the consequences.

You miss the difference between reaching 10 millions of infected in few months or in several years. Ever heard the "flattening the curve" thing?

Besides the hope we all have that an effective vaccine will be found, sooner or later, there is a difference for any country between having 100,000 or 1,000,000 persons in need of oxygen bottles and having few hundreds in such condition.

which has mutated into a virus with very mild symptoms of any. Positivity for the win.It is frankly incredible that there is still people believing and spreading this hoax. Someone likes to consider wishful thinking as reality, mainly to reassure themselves, but sooner or later true reality comes and knocks at the door.

The virus is the same. The fact that today in some countries (I look at Europe) there are less people in intensive care than in March is not that the virus has a sweeter heart, but a simple matter of math ratios. Today there is less people infected than in March or April.

At that time, in Europe we were overwhelmed and underestimating the number of infected by a factor 5 or even 10, who knows. Today, more tests mean more rapid response and detection. In addition, more youngsters get infected, mainly because they are / were not afraid and forgot to be cautious. This mean less severe consequences, but also easier spreading from now on (youngsters live in homes with elders).

I have a colleague who moved from Europe to stay with his family in Bangalore and he is desperate to see 2 members of his family to die, and they are not poor. They can afford best hospitals. The virus is the same and does its work: replicate. We cannot extinguish it, unless we can close everyone everywhere at home for 1 year, but we can slow it down and make consequences bearable (yes, to allow also some to think that "the virus is not the same anymore", like seasons).

I write all this not to convince you (I would not try even with Flat-Earthers), but because I attempt to contrast the spreading of hoaxes.

Last but not least: why don't we all just write about pussy, on which we all have some real experience to tell others, instead of venturing into Unknown Lands to debate what is out of topic and we don't know?

YippieKayay

09-01-20, 18:30

Can't let the supposed cure be worse than the disease itself, which has mutated into a virus with very mild symptoms of any. Positivity for the win.Let's do some numbers at scale here. Between 1955 and 1975 282,000 US and allied service personnel were killed in the Vietnam war. Today the confirmed death toll in the US from COVID-19 is 188,000 which has occurred over approximately six months. Let that sink in for a moment. By the end of the year this pandemic would have caused more death in the US to every day citizens than it did to military personnel over a twenty year period. Again, let that sink in. Think about all the brothers, sons, sisters, mothers who have died in the last six months.

I'm staying out of countries that aren't taking this pandemic seriously. I like breathing.

Have a good day sir, and I hope you stay safe and healthy.

Dcrist0527

09-01-20, 19:34

Let's do some numbers at scale here. Between 1955 and 1975 282,000 US and allied service personnel were killed in the Vietnam war. Today the confirmed death toll in the US from COVID-19 is 188,000 which has occurred over approximately six months. Let that sink in for a moment. By the end of the year this pandemic would have caused more death in the US to every day citizens than it did to military personnel over a twenty year period. Again, let that sink in. Think about all the brothers, sons, sisters, mothers who have died in the last six months.

I'm staying out of countries that aren't taking this pandemic seriously. I like breathing.

Have a good day sir, and I hope you stay safe and healthy.Forgive me, YippieKayay because while I am replying to you, it is in no way directed only at you.

Is there anything more exhausting than reading everyone's expert opinion on COVID? All I have learned is that every pervert on these boards is an expert in the communicable disease field.

Far be it from me to leave my expert opinion out. LOL. What in the hell does Vietnam have to do with COVID? That is just a pointless comparison.

As for Black Page's comments about flattening the curve, that was never anything more than a marketing ploy. The very people that created the shutdowns admit the purpose was simply to not overrun the hospitals, create a worldwide ventilator shortage, etc. But now what? For those that still want everything shutterer indefinitely, what are we waiting for? A vaccine that may never come? Better therapeutics? Because God knows if a therapeutic is promoted, it better be endorsed by your chosen political party. If we should stay on lock down, my question is until when?

Both sides of this argument spin numbers and statistics but everyone agrees this highly contagious virus has spread far beyond what we know. Asymptomatic carriers FAR outnumber those known cases. What that means is infection rates are worthless. Asymptomatic carriers are more often than not, never tested. So no one knows infection rates. Let alone testing rates. Hell, even causes of deaths have proven unreliable or even fraudulent.

So all we are left with is common sense. Let's assume the 188 K figure is accurate. Do you know what percentage of the population that is? One death sucks. I appreciate how callous I sound. But what is the end game? Even if you ignore the countless lives destroyed by the shut down, what are we waiting for?

Understand, I do not begrudge anyone their opinion. The other thing I learned is the power of fear. But as YippieKayay stated, we can all stay at home. But shutting down the global economy for a hope, well, that's just not a viable strategy. Puntz offered several examples of the ineffectiveness of a shutdown. The concept is a farce. Think about your own town during the shutdown. Were your streets completely vacant? Of course not. So all it did was slow the spread. It did not and cannot stop the spread.

Rant over.

Mr Enternational

09-01-20, 20:03

There is literally no reason to keep borders closed. If you feel uncomfortable, stay at home and wear a mask 24/7. Peru has had their borders closed and lockdowns for how many months now? Today they see the highest fatality rates, proving once again that lockdowns are useless and only delay the inevitable. Spoken just like someone that wants to go somewhere they can't. Now tell us how the lockdowns and border closure in Thailand proved useless and delayed the inevitable. There has been no case here in over 90 days after everyone did what they were supposed to. When Thai people are returning home they get bussed from the airport to certain quarantine hotels where they must stay for 14 days and be tested 3 times (not just show a phony photoshopped test at the airport - yes I have buddies doing that in Dominican Republic). Maybe some countries are just not doing their distancing and quarantine shit right. I am happy to be in one where they did.

Kafka

09-01-20, 20:20

Forgive me, YippieKayay because while I am replying to you, it is in no way directed only at you.

Is there anything more exhausting than reading everyone's expert opinion on COVID? All I have learned is that every pervert on these boards is an expert in the communicable disease field.

Far be it from me to leave my expert opinion out. LOL. What in the hell does Vietnam have to do with COVID? That is just a pointless comparison.

As for Black Page's comments about flattening the curve, that was never anything more than a marketing ploy. The very people that created the shutdowns admit the purpose was simply to not overrun the hospitals, create a worldwide ventilator shortage, etc. But now what? For those that still want everything shutterer indefinitely, what are we waiting for? A vaccine that may never come? Better therapeutics? Because God knows if a therapeutic is promoted, it better be endorsed by your chosen political party. If we should stay on lock down, my question is until when?

Both sides of this argument spin numbers and statistics but everyone agrees this highly contagious virus has spread far beyond what we know. Asymptomatic carriers FAR outnumber those known cases. What that means is infection rates are worthless. Asymptomatic carriers are more often than not, never tested. So no one knows infection rates. Let alone testing rates. Hell, even causes of deaths have proven unreliable or even fraudulent.

So all we are left with is common sense. Let's assume the 188 K figure is accurate. Do you know what percentage of the population that is? One death sucks. I appreciate how callous I sound. But what is the end game? Even if you ignore the countless lives destroyed by the shut down, what are we waiting for?.And you are right.

Paulie97

09-01-20, 22:21

Combo

09-01-20, 22:50

Fun Luvr

09-02-20, 00:24

... Now tell us how the lockdowns and border closure in Thailand proved useless and delayed the inevitable. There has been no case here in over 90 days after everyone did what they were supposed to. ...Maybe you meant to say no deaths in the last 90 days. There have been 330 new cases reported.

Elvis 2008

09-02-20, 01:04

But as YippieKayay stated, we can all stay at home. But shutting down the global economy for a hope, well, that's just not a viable strategy.The concept is a farce. Think about your own town during the shutdown. Were your streets completely vacant? Of course not. So all it did was slow the spread. It did not and cannot stop the spread.

Rant over.That is a good rant. Thing is that Colombia is opening back up and these guys want to make excuses for not going which is fine.

Thailand has no new cases? The virus has not mutated? Movement is dangerous? Staying home in your apartment is safe? Whatever. I know people who were afraid to go to Colombia before the virus. If people want to believe things are crazy dangerous in Colombia, have at it. I was just hoping those in the Colombian government would tune out the WHO and Fauci the flip flopper and look at data on their own, and they have.

Outside of the travel bans, Covid has been good for me personally, and it looks like those bans are finally over with as well. I have gotten the attention of quality women that I would have likely never met pre Covid.

To me, a better question with regards to going to Colombia is what to do once we get there. I have my chicas all lined up and am wondering if I stick with them or look elsewhere. Routard said that the restaurants in hotels in Bogota have been allowed to be opened up while others have restrictions on capacity. Outside of eating and drinking and fucking and watching Netflix, I am wondering what there is to do. In Mexico City, hotel gyms were closed but they were open in the all inclusive resorts in Cancun. Two of my chicas just hit me up for dental procedures so I see that the dentists are open.

What surprised me is how many of the things in group settings I have missed: shows, concerts, bars, sporting events. The best and most normal time I have had so far has been going to the all inclusive on the beach in Mexico. There they had bands and outdoor venues to party at, and I was able to get a jet ski and cruise around which was fun. I think there has been so much deprivation when it comes to fun.

Outside of eating, drinking, fucking, and Netflix, what fun things are you guys doing in Medellin? I have read the beaches in Cartagena are opening up. Should I take my Medellin ladies there or stay in the city?

Dcrist0527

09-02-20, 01:12

If you mean Thailand then Mr E well established the relevance. Anyone who missed it just wasn't paying attention.Could not agree more. May I direct your attention to post #39073. You know, the one I replied to that mentioned Vietnam. But perhaps paying attention is the issue after all.

Dcrist0527

09-02-20, 01:34

And how many of those 188,000 had other serious illnesses, in addition to advanced and extreme advanced age?

Obviously, when someone close to you dies, it's terrible. No matter their age or what they succumbed to. But comparing these deaths to deaths in Vietnam, which were mostly young men who hadn't reached the prime of their lives is absurd. Yes, I know there have been reports of young, apparently healthy people dying from Covid, but they are a tiny percentage of the total numbers.

FWIW, I reserve the right to change my opinion of this. There are way too many unknowns at this time to not be flexible in mindset. I also have thus far been very strict with my mask-wearing and social distancing. I have effectively been in "sex prison" of my own choice for almost six months now. Therefore, I cringe every time a read a fellow hobbyist criticize country X's Covid response/policy, and then read about that person boning multiple chicas in Colombia, Brasil, DR, etc. If you talk tough about restrictive social distancing, yet you are actively practicing our hobby, you're a hypocrite.So many great points made in this post. First and foremost, we don't know nearly enough about this disease. Virtually every worldwide health organization has changed their guidance multiple times in the last 6 months. We all make our decisions based on our educated opinions. But I think the forever shutdown crowd is primarily driven by fear and a need to feel a bit of control. Despite all of the alleged expertise we all claim, the fact is this is a new virus we don't know well.

As I said before, each side of the argument massages the statistics to aid their argument. So I take it all with a grain of salt. But it is safe to believe that am extremely high percentage of these COVID deaths have one or more co-morbidities. That must also factor into one's decision. But the flip side of that is that we should also take comfort that the healthy population is not at any high risk even if they are infected.

Lastly, another great point is the hypocrisy in our community. I say this to no one in particular. Those of you swearing off the hobby for now and sticking to social distancing, masks, etc. I admire that. Me? I've adopted the die on my feet instead of live on my knees mentality. I've done most of what I shouldn't. I've been on a plane every few weeks. I've gone to other countries and had my fun. Typical stupid stuff. And I've been fortunate. I'm thankful now that tests are available. I frequently get tested for STDs and thankfully have always come up clean. I now pay $30 for a COVID test fairly often. Not because I worry about my own safety but because I do not want to spread it if I do ever come down with it. I'm expecting my latest results tomorrow. I say all of this not to promote what I'm doing as smart. But we all play in a game that has an element of danger when it comes to communicable disease. Even if you play very safe, we are still at risk. And we all have our own risk profiles. But if you are out there banging hookers and then pointing fingers, just don't.

PussyRiot

09-02-20, 01:43

ConscienceDoc

09-02-20, 02:00

Whatever happened to this Board and the discussion of services, tips and tricks. Now it just sounds like everyone is a scientist. I think the real issue here is everyone is stressed bc they haven't been inside some sweet colombianas in a while. It will all end soon fellas.

Elvis 2008

09-02-20, 02:09

Then you go on to lay out the same tired Fox News crowd party line that has been rebutted repeatedly over several months in the other thread, the one dedicated to off topic discussions. One should not feel obligated to go through it all over again for each monger that parachutes in.

If you mean Thailand then Mr E well established the relevance. Anyone who missed it just wasn't paying attention.Hey, New York, New York, your ploy of blaming Trump for the virus spreading is not working anymore. I guess you have time now from your Wisconsin trip to start posting again. How many cars did you set on fire? Don't worry though. The NY Times is at it again.

"Here's a jarring thought experiment: If the United States had done merely an average job of fighting the coronavirus — if the USA Accounted for the same share of virus deaths as it did global population — how many fewer Americans would have died?

The answer: about 145,000.

That's a large majority of the country's 183,000 confirmed coronavirus-related deaths.

No other country looks as bad by this measure. The USA Accounts for 4 percent of the world's population, and for 22 percent of confirmed Covid-19 deaths. It is one of the many signs that the Trump administration has done a poorer job of controlling the virus than dozens of other governments around the world. ".

Yep, if Trump voters were not so stupid and HRC was president, 183,000 lives would have been saved!

Of course, we can flip that around and take the death rate in New York where the Democratic governor showing real leadership presided over things. Let's do the math shall we? New York has had 468,000 cases of Covid and 33,000 deaths. You divide 468,000 by 33,000 and multiply by 100, and you get a 7. 1% death rate, and you New York New York are proud of those stats.

Now let us take the number of total USA Cases: 6. 25 million and times it by 7. 1% and you get 440,000. So according to my math, if a Democrat were in charge as opposed to Trump, we would have had 440,000 deaths as opposed to 190,000.

So Trump being in office means 250,000 lives were saved!

So what is next with you Democratic dipshits? Are you going to look at traffic accidents, cancer cases, and heart attacks with regards to Democrats and Republicans too?

All I wanted was for the Colombian government to know how full of shit you Democrats, the WHO, and flip flop Fauci were, and it looks like they finally woke up!! All I can say is Thank God.

How the fuck did a virus spreading become so political? Now with the hysteria dying down, you can try going back to convincing people that Biden is smarter than Trump. Good luck with that! You are going to need it.

Knowledge

09-02-20, 02:39

Thank you very much, yes, this is official. Isn't it interesting that one of the very few posts about this with real information is also one of the very shortest posts? Less is more.

I think this is as official as it gets. The debate and wait is basically over. Hopefully soon, we all can get back to talking about banging 18-year-olds instead of becoming a covid expert and travel media guru.

https://idm.presidencia.gov.co/prensa/Paginas/En-septiembre-tendremos-pilotos-de-vuelos-internacionales-Presidente-Duque-200830.aspx

Mr Enternational

09-02-20, 04:44

Maybe you meant to say no deaths in the last 90 days. There have been 330 new cases reported.The cases reported were from the testing of people being repatriated on inbound flights. There have been no new cases inside of the country for 14 weeks (98 days).

https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1961855/thailand-logs-3-new-covid-imports-monday

Puntz79

09-02-20, 05:56

Excuse me if I am harsh, but what is the point of exhibiting very basic ignorance on a topic, shameless or even proud? I do not try to lecture anyone on Theory of Harmony, even if when I was teen I enjoyed strumming chords on my guitar.

Even if you ignore it and do not see the reason, the basics of Epidemiology (a branch of math Control Theory) show the effect of people mobility on the spreading. It's math, not an opinion.

Not only delay the inevitable. Reduce the consequences.

You miss the difference between reaching 10 millions of infected in few months or in several years. Ever heard the "flattening the curve" thing?

Besides the hope we all have that an effective vaccine will be found, sooner or later, there is a difference for any country between having 100,000 or 1,000,000 persons in need of oxygen bottles and having few hundreds in such condition.

It is frankly incredible that there is still people believing and spreading this hoax. Someone likes to consider wishful thinking as reality, mainly to reassure themselves, but sooner or later true reality comes and knocks at the door.

The virus is the same. The fact that today in some countries (I look at Europe) there are less people in intensive care than in March is not that the virus has a sweeter heart, but a simple matter of math ratios. Today there is less people infected than in March or April.

At that time, in Europe we were overwhelmed and underestimating the number of infected by a factor 5 or even 10, who knows. Today, more tests mean more rapid response and detection. In addition, more youngsters get infected, mainly because they are / were not afraid and forgot to be cautious. This mean less severe consequences, but also easier spreading from now on (youngsters live in homes with elders).

I have a colleague who moved from Europe to stay with his family in Bangalore and he is desperate to see 2 members of his family to die, and they are not poor. They can afford best hospitals. The virus is the same and does its work: replicate. We cannot extinguish it, unless we can close everyone everywhere at home for 1 year, but we can slow it down and make consequences bearable (yes, to allow also some to think that "the virus is not the same anymore", like seasons).

I write all this not to convince you (I would not try even with Flat-Earthers), but because I attempt to contrast the spreading of hoaxes.

Last but not least: why don't we all just write about pussy, on which we all have some real experience to tell others, instead of venturing into Unknown Lands to debate what is out of topic and we don't know?Probably not a good idea to say all that and then end with let's change the subject rather than something we don't know.

First, I don't say anywhere there's a hoax. The virus is real, but there has been a major overreaction. Sweden handled this well and is now drawing the praise of the WHO, they didn't protect their elderly early enough and that accounts for most of their deaths. The rest, life continued and resembled normality with exceptions here and there.

Different strains of the virus were found in different parts. Some were more deadly than others. The good news if anything, they did what viruses typically do and that's mutate. Many times a mutation will result in a more infectious virus but with much milder symptoms. This is not a bad thing, there has been some expectation that this mutated to what would be a common cold. This is nothing unusual, nor is it a hoax. It's just reality. It may mutate to the point where a vaccine is not even needed, think of previous viruses in the last 20 years and this is more than often the case.

Lockdowns do not work, again. There is absolutely nothing that indicates they have been successful. They were used to slow the spread, which is fine. In the US however "slow the spread" is no longer mentioned, it's more the rising cases or deaths. Both of which have been falling and / or plateaued. The lockdown just slows down the inevitable which is more healthier people being infected and rescuing a burnout stage, which is what happened in the sun Belt states and New York. It's important for the country to reach that, while protecting the old and vulnerable. This way deaths are minimized and it goes through the healthier population which has only mild symptoms and recover very easily. Those I know who have tested positive half of them are asymptomatic and the other half very mild symptoms that are no different from the flu. Again in the healthier population this is not an issue. With lockdowns comes kisses cancer screenings, elective surgeries that go missed or delayed, increase in depression and suicide. They cause economic hardships and can even ruin lives. If we remember "flatten the curve" then surely we remember "the cure cannot be worse than the disease. ".

In the end, Colombia made the right decision and history will show this. If someone doesn't feel comfortable traveling then by all means stay at home until you do change your mind or something happens such as a vaccine. This topic can go on and on.

Elvis 2008

09-02-20, 08:44

Lastly, another great point is the hypocrisy in our community. I say this to no one in particular. Those of you swearing off the hobby for now and sticking to social distancing, masks, etc. I admire that. Me? I've adopted the die on my feet instead of live on my knees mentality. I've done most of what I shouldn't. I've been on a plane every few weeks. I've gone to other countries and had my fun. Typical stupid stuff. And I've been fortunate. I'm thankful now that tests are available. Even if you play very safe, we are still at risk. And we all have our own risk profiles. But if you are out there banging hookers and then pointing fingers, just don't.If you believe in asymptomatic spread of the virus I would agree with you. Thing is that this is what WHO's technical lead on Covid said: Monday, Van Kerkhove noted that when health officials review cases that are initially reported to be asymptomatic, "we find out that many have really mild disease. " There are some infected people who are "truly asymptomatic," she said, but countries that are doing detailed contact tracing are "not finding secondary transmission onward" from those cases. "It's very rare," she said.

There is an ensuing uproar right? The dogma of asymptomatic Covid transmission has been breached.

So she responds the next day. Van Kerkhove made it very clear Tuesday that the actual rates of asymptomatic transmission aren't yet known.

Even that statement flies in the face of the dogma. I have read that as many as 40% of all Covid cases came from people who are asymptomatic. Did Van Kerkhove's response the day after refute what she previously said? Nope. That was a non-denial, denial.

You want to call a guy a hypocrite who is fucking some 25 year old running a fever who has body aches and a cough? I am with you.

Now how about calling a guy a hypocrite banging a 25 year old who is running five miles a day, has no symptoms, and is in great health? Are you fucking kidding me? You might as well be worried about getting struck by lightning.

Black Page

09-02-20, 16:33

As for Black Page's comments about flattening the curve, that was never anything more than a marketing ploy. The very people that created the shutdowns admit the purpose was simply to not overrun the hospitals, create a worldwide ventilator shortage, etc.
(.....)
Puntz offered several examples of the ineffectiveness of a shutdown. The concept is a farce. Think about your own town during the shutdown. Were your streets completely vacant? Of course not. So all it did was slow the spread. It did not and cannot stop the spread.Once again, I must raise a warning when someone makes a wrong statement based on false information. Please be careful.

1) Flattening the curve.
"Overrun hospitals, create a worldwide ventilator shortage, etc. " make more people to die. The percentage of patients who die is not a constant, independent of that. If you slow down the spreading of an epidemic, the percentage of persons who die is much lower than if you let the epidemic to expand uncontrolled. Slowing down the spreading means to save lives, not just delaying the inevitable.
The "people that created the shutdown" did not admit that the purpose was simply the above, but explained it to those who did not know.

2) "Puntz offered several examples of the ineffectiveness of a shutdown"?
Also false examples: one is Sweden. Don't be fooled and look at the numbers yourself.
Sweden in Europe is widely recognized as the demonstration of an epic fail, besides the opinion of Mr. Puntz, whatever is his authoritativeness in the area. Sweden has reached 575 deaths /1 M population, opposed to the 49 of Norway, 108 of Denmark, 61 of Finland (neighboring countries). 576 is one of the highest in the world, it pairs USA. In Europe, it is lower only to those countries that were overwhelmed before taking effective measures (Belgium, Spain, UK, Italy). And note that Sweden is not Third World. It has one of the best and most efficient systems of Public Health in the world, for everyone, poor and rich.
Did they reach any "herd immunity" in change of this sacrifice? Not at all. The last epidemiological study reported that, based on serological tests, only 10%-15% population have the antibodies. It is not even understood if any "herd immunity" really exists and how long those antibodies protect, but even having 15% of population immune would be nothing.
So, that strategy made Sweden to suffer many deaths that could be avoided. And without achieving the intended goal. It's a huge responsibility to carry for those who took the wrong decision.

It is fine that people can expose personal opinions, including bizarre ones, but claiming false facts to mislead cannot be condoned. I hope everyone is careful in reading.

P.S.: "Were your streets completely vacant? "
I respect your opinion on that, but we should not confuse the validity of a measure with the discipline of people in following it. Forbidding cars to pass with red light save lives, but I agree that it is not effective to avoid any accident at road crosses. Not everyone stops.

In the end, Colombia made the right decision and history will show this.
Excuse me, I am lost. What is the correct decision?

ShooBree

09-02-20, 17:48

ChuchoLoco

09-02-20, 18:31

How the fuck did a virus spreading become so political?It became political when the chosen one said that it was all a democratic hoax. He said that at the beginning when he should have been working on a solution which he still hasn't done. How about his news conference with his buddy the pillow guy? What a joke! Remember? Or is your memory limited to his last lie which occurs daily?

Black Page

09-02-20, 19:26

Ireland with their harsh lockdown have one of the highest rates when it comes to deaths per capita in Europe. India had an draconian lockdown, what happened after the lockdown? They saw a rapid spread of COVID-19.
(...)
Anyways, herd immunity is very much in play in certain areas of Sweden. Have you heard of T-cells? Sweden's numbers are looking great, better than other European countries. The WHO praised the Swedish approach.I guess you are just trolling, unless your marks in math at high school weren't great.
Ireland: 359 deaths /1 M population.
Sweden: 575 deaths /1 M population.
(https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/).

About the "Draconian lockdown" in India, I can only deduct that either you don't know what is "Draconian", or you don't know what is India.

You can twist facts trying to demonstrate that hot water is colder than ice, but then you should keep thermometers away from your followers.

I take note of your T-cell argument. It's good that Sweden does not need a vaccine anymore. Great!

Dcrist0527

09-02-20, 22:08

Once again, I must raise a warning when someone makes a wrong statement based on false information. Please be careful.

1) Flattening the curve.
"Overrun hospitals, create a worldwide ventilator shortage, etc. " make more people to die. The percentage of patients who die is not a constant, independent of that. If you slow down the spreading of an epidemic, the percentage of persons who die is much lower than if you let the epidemic to expand uncontrolled. Slowing down the spreading means to save lives, not just delaying the inevitable.
The "people that created the shutdown" did not admit that the purpose was simply the above, but explained it to those who did not know.

2) "Puntz offered several examples of the ineffectiveness of a shutdown"?
Also false examples: one is Sweden. Don't be fooled and look at the numbers yourself.
Sweden in Europe is widely recognized as the demonstration of an epic fail, besides the opinion of Mr. Puntz, whatever is his authoritativeness in the area. Sweden has reached 575 deaths /1 M population, opposed to the 49 of Norway, 108 of Denmark, 61 of Finland (neighboring countries). 576 is one of the highest in the world, it pairs USA. In Europe, it is lower only to those countries that were overwhelmed before taking effective measures (Belgium, Spain, UK, Italy). And note that Sweden is not Third World. It has one of the best and most efficient systems of Public Health in the world, for everyone, poor and rich.
Did they reach any "herd immunity" in change of this sacrifice? Not at all. The last epidemiological study reported that, based on serological tests, only 10%-15% population have the antibodies. It is not even understood if any "herd immunity" really exists and how long those antibodies protect, but even having 15% of population immune would be nothing.
So, that strategy made Sweden to suffer many deaths that could be avoided. And without achieving the intended goal. It's a huge responsibility to carry for those who took the wrong decision.You make some good points. (You did however edit the responses and attributed the Colombia comment to me in error).

But you did not address the main point. Until when? We can define flatten the curve differently, though I disagree with your point. But the fallacy is. When does the curve end? I hope like hell we develop a vaccine. God knows we're throwing every good mind at it. Efficacy is my concern. We are so early on in the process, we don't know what we need to know, I. E. Mutations. Dare I bring up the flu shot? Hell, the common cold? At this point, all we have is hope. But again, I ask, quarantine until when? Because if these early vaccine candidates do not pan out, then what? Another year of social distancing amd quarantine? That is not how we should live. I'm not 80 years old but I'd be damned to live out my final years as a hermit. I totally understand those that feel true fear. But the impacts of shutdowns are evident all around us. And that's where you have to draw the line. How much are we willing to give up? And even more important, are we willing to give it up indefinitely? Because that's the point we are at.

As for Europe, or any country for that matter. Social norms vary so greatly. Basic freedoms vary greatly. Quality of care varies greatly. So without question there is some validity to the comparisons but there are also untold variables. And BTW, what's going on in Europe in the last few weeks? If that's utopia, well, you can keep it because their numbers are spiking.

Herd immunity is absolutely one of my hopes. There's certainly no guarantee that it is even possible. I'm not familiar with that study in Sweeden but in the US, we are welll past 10-15%. So why is that a hope of mine? Because at this point that 60-65% threshold might be sooner than a viable vaccine. But again, is that what we're waiting for? Something that might never come? It's sad and difficult to grasp. And I think we as humans have a need to feel in control.

Lastly, any plan is only as effective as its adherence. Point taken about the car. But unless we quarantine literally everyone for a 2-3 week period. Including essential workers, it is ineffective. Are we to believe those grocery store clerks cannot carry the virus, as an example? I do NOT want to make this political at all. But I am reminded of Biden's national mask mandate. Three months of wearing a mask will solve this. Really? No. It is just more packaging and more false promise or false hope. Short ot an absolute quarantine (and I cannot fathom the loss of life that would cause), we are without a viable solution at this point.

I respect your opinions Black Page. While we disagree and you may believe I'm uneducated, foolish and countless other attributes, I appreciate your thoughtful response and approach.

ShooBree

09-02-20, 23:14

I guess you are just trolling, unless your marks in math at high school weren't great.
Ireland: 359 deaths /1 M population.
Sweden: 575 deaths /1 M population.
(https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/).

About the "Draconian lockdown" in India, I can only deduct that either you don't know what is "Draconian", or you don't know what is India.

You can twist facts trying to demonstrate that hot water is colder than ice, but then you should keep thermometers away from your followers.

I take note of your T-cell argument. It's good that Sweden does not need a vaccine anymore. Great!I never wrote that Ireland had more deaths per capita than Sweden. I wrote that they are among the worst affected countries in Europe. I don't think that it's a controversial statement.

In India the police used bamboo sticks to beat people going out to shop for food, you don't consider that to be over the top? I know that plenty of considered the Indian response to be draconian.

Almost every country said that the goal was to "flatten the curve", Sweden succeeded doing so without any lockdown.

I won't any vaccine, I remember what happened last time when we were supposed to be vaccinated against the swine flue. People got scared for life, I much rather get COVID-19 than narcolepsy.

Black Page

09-02-20, 23:22

I respect your opinions Black Page. While we disagree and you may believe I'm uneducated, foolish and countless other attributes, I appreciate your thoughtful response and approach.I never thought you are uneducated and such. Your very polite and well written post demonstrates the opposite. Something is debatable, but there is a lot of good sense in it.

I said to pay attention to ignorant ones who spread false information. After 10 times something is repeated and nobody objects even the obvious, it becomes true for some.

P.S. Sorry for attributing you the Colombia statement. A mistake without intention.

Elvis 2008

09-03-20, 00:27

It became political when the chosen one said that it was all a democratic hoax. He said that at the beginning when he should have been working on a solution which he still hasn't done. How about his news conference with his buddy the pillow guy? What a joke! Remember? Or is your memory limited to his last lie which occurs daily?So what CL? Trump said HCQ worked, and the Democrats went off on how ineffective and unsafe it was. The same was true for the antibody treatment Trump touted.

If Trump said that bleach didn't work for the virus and not to drink it, there would have been thousands of Democrats dead for drinking bleach.

You can make fun of Trump all you want it is not going to help. What was Trump's plan, and what was Biden's?

You Democrats want to run on how you manage Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Baltimore, and New York and proclaim you know what you are doing? Have at it. Maybe you can take a page from Paulie and go off on how well New York handled the virus. Gee, that is a real winner.

You all pinned all your hopes on the virus, made it seem like Trump was an idiot for not listening to the experts. What are the experts advocating now? First, it was flatten the curve. Then it was a vaccine will save us. Billions later spent on vaccines advocated by flip flop Fauci the vaccinologist and now the vaccines are not the silver bullet they were supposed to be.

So now you know what the experts will say? It does not matter. The experts asked us to sacrifice, and we sacrificed with no payoff. It is happening in the USA and in Peru and in Colombia.

What is going to happen, what already is happening is people have accepted they are going to have live with the virus and that despite all the Democratic bullshit about Trump not listening to the experts, the people have already concluded the so called experts did not know what they were talking about.

The Tall Man

09-03-20, 17:51

So what CL? Trump said HCQ worked, and the Democrats went off on how ineffective and unsafe it was. The same was true for the antibody treatment Trump touted.

If Trump said that bleach didn't work for the virus and not to drink it, there would have been thousands of Democrats dead for drinking bleach.

You can make fun of Trump all you want it is not going to help. What was Trump's plan, and what was Biden's?

You Democrats want to run on how you manage Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Baltimore, and New York and proclaim you know what you are doing? Have at it. Maybe you can take a page from Paulie and go off on how well New York handled the virus. Gee, that is a real winner.

You all pinned all your hopes on the virus, made it seem like Trump was an idiot for not listening to the experts. What are the experts advocating now? First, it was flatten the curve. Then it was a vaccine will save us. Billions later spent on vaccines advocated by flip flop Fauci the vaccinologist and now the vaccines are not the silver bullet they were supposed to be.

So now you know what the experts will say? It does not matter. The experts asked us to sacrifice, and we sacrificed with no payoff. It is happening in the USA and in Peru and in Colombia.

What is going to happen, what already is happening is people have accepted they are going to have live with the virus and that despite all the Democratic bullshit about Trump not listening to the experts, the people have already concluded the so called experts did not know what they were talking about.Could not agree more.

The Tall Man.

ChuchoLoco

09-03-20, 19:06

So what CL? Trump said HCQ worked, and the Democrats went off on how ineffective and unsafe it was. The same was true for the antibody treatment Trump touted.

If Trump said that bleach didn't work for the virus and not to drink it, there would have been thousands of Democrats dead for drinking bleach.

You can make fun of Trump all you want it is not going to help. What was Trump's plan, and what was Biden's?

You Democrats want to run on how you manage Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Baltimore, and New York and proclaim you know what you are doing? Have at it. Maybe you can take a page from Paulie and go off on how well New York handled the virus. Gee, that is a real winner.

You all pinned all your hopes on the virus, made it seem like Trump was an idiot for not listening to the experts. What are the experts advocating now? First, it was flatten the curve. Then it was a vaccine will save us. Billions later spent on vaccines advocated by flip flop Fauci the vaccinologist and now the vaccines are not the silver bullet they were supposed to be..I answered your question E. You must remember when he said it was a Democratic hoax don't you? In any event, I keep hearing everyday of people I know or are acquainted with getting infected, more than ever. Thankfully most survive and have mild symptoms. A few have been hospitalized. Some are die hard are's and others the's so it don't matter. If it started with one person and has spread worldwide, how can it ever be eliminated with millions now infected?

What I really don't understand is how China, where it all began, has so few deaths.

Oh well, enough said. Time to read another who killed JFK book.

Anybody know a Viking who played basketball?

Nounce

09-03-20, 22:22

I guess you are just trolling, unless your marks in math at high school weren't great.
Ireland: 359 deaths /1 M population.
Sweden: 575 deaths /1 M population.
(https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/).
A hypothetical example, if a person dies on the 10th year of a lock down that lasted more than 10 years. This person is without job and miserable during the time of lock down. The number of years does not really matter but I will just stick with 10 for argument's sack.

When this person dies, do you considered him died of natural cause, or died from Covid?

What would your reply be if I say this person died as soon as the lock down started?

Nounce

09-03-20, 22:38

You Democrats want to run on how you manage Seattle, Portland, Chicago, Baltimore, and New York and proclaim you know what you are doing? Have at it. Maybe you can take a page from Paulie and go off on how well New York handled the virus. Gee, that is a real winner.

....

So now you know what the experts will say? It does not matter. The experts asked us to sacrifice, and we sacrificed with no payoff. It is happening in the USA and in Peru and in Colombia.
My guess is that the Democrats will get similar result as the Republicans because they will listen to the same experts as Republicans. and Democrats will have the same bureaucrats to execute the plan. The problem with these public officials is that they follow a script. If everything fit the script, they think they are doing their jobs. If they find a COVID cluster, and they finds guidelines are followed, most of them won't take additional action and will think it is Ok.

I do think we need to listen to experts, multiple types of experts actually, economists, mental health professionals, and engineers who know how to devise and execute plan. IMO, what went wrong is that the government only listens to one type of experts with no deadline. And unfortunately, the only experts they listen to have been wrong on multiple occasions.

BTW, I do think the lock down works as I have personally experience it in both successful and unsuccessful lock down. All I can say is a successful lock down is very different from an unsuccessful ones so they are not the same thing.

If US uses a software engineer to tackle this as a sorting algorithm, i think the lock down will have a better chance to be successful. The testing is slow because it uses bubble sort, they should figure out a way to use quicksort instead

Fun Luvr

09-04-20, 05:00

I answered your question E. You must remember when he said it was a Democratic hoax don't you?Trump never said the virus was a hoax. He said the Democrats accusing him of being responsible for the virus was their new hoax.

ChuchoLoco

09-04-20, 13:37

Trump never said the virus was a hoax. He said the Democrats accusing him of being responsible for the virus was their new hoax.Yes he did. It's on tape. I saw it live and many times since. But why didn't E answer that he remembered it in either form? That's when it became political either way you care to remember it.

Elvis 2008

09-05-20, 05:42

My guess is that the Democrats will get similar result as the Republicans because they will listen to the same experts as Republicans. and Democrats will have the same bureaucrats to execute the plan.I agree, but for different reasons. The virus is going to do what is going to do. The only people who can slow it down are those who are sick and those who treat the sick. Experts only have influence if their advice is complied with.

I do think we need to listen to experts, multiple types of experts actually, economists, mental health professionals, and engineers who know how to devise and execute plan. IMO, what went wrong is that the government only listens to one type of experts with no deadline. And unfortunately, the only experts they listen to have been wrong on multiple occasions.What I see are politicians wanting their POV supported, and they then find experts who support it. To get people to comply with expert advice when that advice requires sacrifice, citizens have to buy into the advice. They have to believe the expert's motives are pure, free from commercial influence, and that those experts walk the walk. If the experts do not know something, they need to say they do not know.

When you start handing out $1000 citations for people not wearing masks, you are going to have the public question your motivation.

And you have to be nimble and change things based on the data and admit it when you were wrong. The new data on masks was great. The data showed that you can open hair salons if everyone wears their masks. So why were they still shut down?

Then you have Pelosi and the hair salon? Yeah, Fox news ran the clip and humiliated Pelosi, but if every time an elite screws up they turn it into a Dem-Republican thing, the elites can get away with anything.

The issue really is not Pelosi. It is the elites v. Hair stylists / the citizens. The elites have put hair stylists out of business because supposedly they were not essential well for us. For Pelosi and the elites, getting their hair styled was essential.

How many hair stylists who lost their businesses have said fuck it and just collect unemployment, go on welfare, or refuse to comply with the expert advice now? Has the lockdown worked for hair stylists or anyone with professions like theirs?

All I see are experts mouthing off about the benefits of lockdowns. I see no one talking about their downsides. The people who wanted the economics of a lockdown to be addressed were shouted down as putting money before lives. For the Americas, locking down healthy people cost a whole lot of people a whole lot of money and as far as I see provided very little benefit. For Asia, the results were far different.

If the elites want to blame the public for this, then they better be walking the walk. The problem I have with Democrats is that they believe everyone in government save for Trump is as pure as the driven snow. They cannot say Pelosi fucked up. They cannot say Fauci lied when he said he was massively dehydrated. It is always, "Well, compared to Trump" "Trump didn't wear a mask either" or all this other drivel.

Xavter

09-05-20, 14:01

Fun Luvr

09-05-20, 22:38

Yes he did. It's on tape. I saw it live and many times since. But why didn't E answer that he remembered it in either form? That's when it became political either way you care to remember it.Here's a link from FactCheck. Org, which is not a Trump sympathizer, explaining the whole thing: https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/democratic-ad-twists-trumps-hoax-comment/
Just in case you don't want to follow that link, here is a transcript of what Trump said: "Trump, Feb. 28: Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, you know that right? Coronavirus, they're politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, "How's President Trump doing?" They go, "Oh, not good, not good. " They have no clue. They don't have any clue. They can't even count their votes in Iowa. They can't even count. No, they can't. They can't count their votes.

One of my people came up to me and said, "Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia." That didn't work out too well. They couldn't do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They've been doing it since you got in. It's all turning. They lost. It's all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax. ".

Xavter

09-06-20, 12:46

Villainy

09-06-20, 23:01

........Herd immunity is absolutely one of my hopes. There's certainly no guarantee that it is even possible. I'm not familiar with that study in Sweeden but in the US, we are welll past 10-15%. So why is that a hope of mine? Because at this point that 60-65% threshold might be sooner than a viable vaccine. But again, is that what we're waiting for? Something that might never come? It's sad and difficult to grasp. And I think we as humans have a need to feel in control....https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

If you are really, seriously thinking that herd immunity is in play. You should read this commentary from the Mayo Clinic. Herd immunity is a term that is bandied about by a lot of people who have no (and I mean zero).

Understanding of what it is and how it works. The article will help you understand it better. Sweden isn't achieving "herd immunity" and they aren't going to reach it anytime soon.

ShooBree

09-07-20, 05:29

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808

If you are really, seriously thinking that herd immunity is in play. You should read this commentary from the Mayo Clinic. Herd immunity is a term that is bandied about by a lot of people who have no (and I mean zero).

Understanding of what it is and how it works. The article will help you understand it better. Sweden isn't achieving "herd immunity" and they aren't going to reach it anytime soon.That article was far from convincing considering that they just voiced guesses and estimates which been proven to be incorrect.

Sweden is very much seeing the effects from herd immunity.

https://www.google.se/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-herd-immunity-threshold.amp

Just Incognito

09-07-20, 06:10

Zeos1

09-07-20, 13:29

That article was far from convincing considering that they just voiced guesses and estimates which been proven to be incorrect.

Sweden is very much seeing the effects from herd immunity.

https://www.google.se/amp/s/medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-herd-immunity-threshold.ampI took the trouble of reading the article, which is about the mathematics and science relating to herd immunity. It certainly says nothing about whether or not there is even herd immunity for Covid, and in fact it refers to herd immunity with vaccines, not without. There is no evidence that there is any herd immunity to Covid 19 without a vaccine, and the levels of Covid 19 experienced in Sweden or anywhere else are no where near what would be needed to start seeing evidence of herd immunity, if it even exists without a vaccine.

The closest related virus to Covid 19 is the common cold. And there is no noticeable herd immunity to it, and very short lived immunity of any kind to the cold viruses.

ChuchoLoco

09-07-20, 14:43

Don't you ever wonder how much your hate for Trump will allow you to be manipulated by others for their political and financial gain?I'm retired and now have an income under 50 k but since Trump enacted his new tax plan, my taxes have gone up almost a thousand dollars while the top tier got a hug break and his promise just before the 2018 election that middle class relief was being worked on and we would have it after the election. I'm still waiting. And no I haven't bought any covid cures from Alex Jones or the Pillow Guy so they are not getting financial gain from me but from others. I just don't like liars, braggers, fakes, bullies, hippocrit. And draft dodgers.

For those interested to hear what he said and can judge on your own, go to YouTube and do a search and you can see video clips of that speech. I believe it was on 28 February 2020.

JjBee62

09-07-20, 16:02

I took the trouble of reading the article, which is about the mathematics and science relating to herd immunity. It certainly says nothing about whether or not there is even herd immunity for Covid, and in fact it refers to herd immunity with vaccines, not without. There is no evidence that there is any herd immunity to Covid 19 without a vaccine, and the levels of Covid 19 experienced in Sweden or anywhere else are no where near what would be needed to start seeing evidence of herd immunity, if it even exists without a vaccine.

The closest related virus to Covid 19 is the common cold. And there is no noticeable herd immunity to it, and very short lived immunity of any kind to the cold viruses.The other type of "herd immunity" applies here.

The most commonly considered type of herd immunity is when a sufficient percentage of the population has developed sufficient antibodies to a virus to prevent large outbreaks. That percentage depends upon how easily the virus can be spread. The mechanism is simple. If you're contagious with a virus and most of the people who you come in contact with are currently immune, the chance of spreading the virus to more than one person is greatly reduced. For many types of viruses this type of herd immunity requires widespread use of effective vaccines.

The other type of "herd immunity" focuses on "herd" rather than "immunity."

Any herd of farm animals is immune to knowledge concerning infectious diseases and acquired immunity. The noises they make clearly demonstrate their inability to understand the available data.

You can test this. It works with pets, other domesticated animals and even wild animals (although it's best to hold the discussion at a distance with certain species). Simply ask any nearby animal "If the novel coronavirus has an are naught value of 5.7, what percentage of the population must have acquired immunity to achieve herd immunity?" Listen carefully to the growl, bark, chirp or any other noises made by the animal. If the noise sounds like "82% give him a treat and pat him on the head, unless you asked a porcupine.

If you receive any other answer, chances are your target audience simply lacks the mental capacity to understand the concept.

https://www.healthline.com/health/r-nought-reproduction-number#covid-19-are-0.

Elvis 2008

09-07-20, 17:48

It certainly says nothing about whether or not there is even herd immunity for Covid, and in fact it refers to herd immunity with vaccines, not without.What? Here is the exact sentence from the article, "Experts estimate that in the USA, 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the epidemic."

And Zeos, when I looked at the Canadian data, the death rate in the USA per capita was twice that of Canada. It is bad but it does not mean that Canada is the huge success that you have made it out to be.

Then you look at Sweden in comparison to the Netherlands and Belgium and it is not having near the problem with the second wave that those countries are.

There is no doubt that lockdowns worked in Asia but they have not worked anywhere else after the virus mutated. Those of you who believe in lockdowns keep ignoring that fact. The "success" in Canada may be fleeting as Canada may have to deal with the virus longer than other nations.

It is hard to find four nations with policies as different as Colombia v. Mexico and Peru v. Brazil. Brazil and Mexico have been lambasted by the press for not taking the virus seriously and why they both have horrible data, Peru has worse data than Brazil and Colombia is far worse than Mexico.

Anybody touting the concept of herd immunity via vaccine or by people getting infected ignores the fact the virus may suddenly burn itself out or mutate into a more deadly strain. There has been a few cases of reinfection.

Thing is that you learn to live with it. First time I was in a room with someone with Covid, I was terrified. After the tenth and seeing not just me but everyone around me not getting sick, it was no big deal.

Elvis 2008

09-07-20, 18:14

A big deal, but I think Pelosi going maskless to the hair salon does it for the Democrats come November. The Dems have been pounding away on Trump for not listening to scientists and making dumb statements. While he has said stupid things, I am at a loss as to what Democratic alternative would have saved lives. Still, hammering Trump on the virus was the Democrats best strategy and there is no doubt it was working.

Well, it did until Pelosi shit the bed. For those of you who do not know what I am talking about, you had Pelosi illegally going maskless and demanding a salon be open and getting her hair done, something others in California were banned for doing. This video explains the situation: https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/tucker-carlson-nancy-pelosi-san-francisco-salon.

Then there is the salon owner and her response: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7lRKAtD4xE.

This is not a red-blue thing. It is how many voters resonate with this salon owner. How many people say I lost my job not to save lives but because the Democrats were willing to destroy the economy to get Trump out of office?

Pelosi's response was completely insensitive and bungled and now Democrat have rushed to defend her. All the responses are the same, "Well, Trump did. "

"What she has done is slap the face of not just a salon owner but every woman every man every person who's unemployed in the state of California who has lost their jobs and lost their livelihoods. ," one protester said.

The Democrats had a field day saying Trump put money over lives, and I think this one action shows the Democrats really had no alternative plan and that they just wanted the economy destroyed so Trump was not re-elected. Most other people think this is no big deal, but I think it is huge.

And I want to go back to whomever showed that totally inaccurate Yale study on the rate of infection in Peru and how they blamed their inaccuracies on the Peruvian people's non-compliance. I would like to ask those Yale blowhards was the average Peruvian more or less compliant than Nancy Pelosi?

The only proper response for Pelosi was that she fucked up and apologized, but she and her Democratic allies seem incapable of doing so.

ShooBree

09-07-20, 20:00

ShooBree

09-07-20, 20:08

There is no herd immunity.

And even if there was: more than 1 out of 100 Americans would have to be killed why covid to find out if it actually could work.

No thanks.

The solution isn't herd immunity. Its killing the virus by stopping transmission. A full autocratic style lockdown for 2 months followed by a notional mask mandate for 2 months and we all move on.Herd immunity is very much in play in certain areas of Sweden. People like you talked about 70'000 people dying in Sweden from Covid-19, today we know that they were wrong.

1% won't die. I've seen the results from not having any lockdowns, 99.94% will survive.

The lockdowns didn't work and the masks aren't working. The only solution is herd immunity, if you're scared stay at home.

Anyways, thanks for the laugh.

Elvis 2008

09-07-20, 21:53

There is no herd immunity.

And even if there was: more than 1 out of 100 Americans would have to be killed why covid to find out if it actually could work.Uh, no. It would depend on the age of those infected.

The solution isn't herd immunity. Its killing the virus by stopping transmission. A full autocratic style lockdown for 2 months followed by a notional mask mandate for 2 months and we all move on.LOL. And what do you think Colombia and Peru did for 6 months? Was the problem they were not autocratic enough? They didn't send out the police to shoot anyone who broke the lockdown. And then if the police are out then it really is not a full lockdown right?

So shut down the economy for 2 months and blame Trump when it goes down right around election day? Brilliant!

It looks like more and more like Demorat plans like yours are falling through. Again.

"Shut down gym owners in San Francisco have developed serious "roid rage" after finding out this week that gyms inside of government buildings have been open for months while privately owned establishments have remained shut down, per the government's orders.

Gyms for police officers, lawyers, bailiffs, paralegals and government employees have been open since July 1, according to a new report from the Washington Examiner."

Ah, yes, the Demorat plan is all government workers and "essential" workers get paid, go to the gym, and get their hair done while everyone else can go get fucked. That "plan" does not look like it is working anymore.

Big Boss Man

09-07-20, 23:49

Paulie97

09-08-20, 00:11

Since we have now determined Corona Virus to be a Democratic plot, President Trump can start with reversing his travel proclamations. He can do so in the next 30 minutes. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/News/visas-news/presidential-proclamation-coronavirus.html#text=On%20 Monday%2 see%20 June%2022%2 see%20 President, market%20 following%20 the%20 coronavirus%20 outbreak. &text=There%20 is%20 also%20 an%20 exception, the%20 or%20 C1%2 FD%20 visas.A Democratic plot it is, and of course I realize you are being facetious. Wink.

That whole line of thinking was destroyed when Mr E pointed out all the countries where there are no Democrats yet they are still having trouble with the virus. Yet it persists because ridiculous people typically yell the loudest and are the most dogged in fighting to the end and getting in the last word. Last post wins right? Well I can tell you who is going to have the last post here on this subject, Elvirus. Bet the farm on it.

Voyajer1

09-08-20, 07:16

Here is that speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE.

It doesn't matter what you can prove. A sheep follow his shepherd no matter what. Can't teach stupid, it is not possible.

I just don't like liars, braggers, fakes, bullies, hippocrit. And draft dodgers.

For those interested to hear what he said and can judge on your own, go to YouTube and do a search and you can see video clips of that speech. I believe it was on 28 February 2020.

Black Page

09-08-20, 12:06

Here is that speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5TZ6fTYrsE.
It doesn't matter what you can prove. A sheep follow his shepherd no matter what. Can't teach stupid, it is not possible.It is important to not lose memory. Youtube today helps. See his sharp eyes, his profound expression, highlighting the stupidity of the claims he is making. The families of the 200 k people died in USA in seven months must enjoy seeing this video.

It is so embarrassing to see the USA, that is the country that has led the world to many new frontiers of progress for centuries, now led by this moron. For my generation USA has been a myth. How could that happen? This will be studied for centuries in history books. Maybe, this is the proof that the USA system is so robust, that it keeps on working well even without a real President. Chapeau!.

Just Incognito

09-08-20, 15:54

Well, I remember kids on the play ground who give up everything on the first try, when things gets tough, they are the first one who quits and they hate to see other people continue trying. I respect their existence, and they normally end up working for me; I will divide a seemingly unsolvable problem into small pieces so they can comfortably work on it. Anyways, people are different, some give up easily some will continue trying, I'm not the kind of person who give up on things easily.Its about living in reality and not being desperate. Sheesh. Only people in America are thinking like you--which is why America has 4% of the worlds population and 22% of the corona related deaths! Your way of thinking is what's keeping you out of Medellin! The sooner you understand that. The sooner you can join the team working towards real solutions and helping get this over with. The sooner you will have fun in Colombia.

Villainy

09-08-20, 16:05

Then you look at Sweden in comparison to the Netherlands and Belgium and it is not having near the problem with the second wave that those countries are....Why is it that when you want to make a point you select comparisons that are completely dissimilar? Why in the world would you compare Sweden to Belgium and the Netherlands and then say "See Sweden is not having the problem that these countries are."

Belgium has 973 people per square mile. Netherlands has 1,092 people per square mile. Sweden has 59 people per square mile. Don't you think population density plays a major role in virus statistics and how communicable the disease is?

So what would be better? How about Norway and Finland and even Denmark. These countries have similar climate characteristics and let's look at the population densities.

Finland has 42 people per square mile. Norway has 43 people per square mile. Denmark has 349 per square mile. Sweden (again) has 59 people per square mile.

Don't you think these countries which have greater proximity and close matches for population density would be the best comparison??

So let's look at the results:

Sweden has 8,477 cases per million persons and 577 deaths per million persons.

Denmark has 3,167 cases per million persons and 108 deaths per million persons.

Finland has 1,504 cases per million persons and 61 deaths per million persons.

Norway has 2,129 cases per million persons and 49 deaths per million persons.

This is a fair comparison Elvis. I'm not cherry-picking the comparisons in order to make a dishonest or deceptive point.

Just looking at those comparisons one might reasonably conclude that Sweden should have been doing what the surrounding countries were doing.

Black Page

09-08-20, 19:24

International flights to CTG back in business on September 21st. As per the Cartagena thread.
National flights in Colombia have already been going on.
Therefore, arrive internationally to CTG and then pop on over to MDE.
Or maybe, we will see more news soon regarding dates for other international airports in Colombia.To you and to all others who commented variously this news, I hate to remind that having international flights connecting an airport is a necessary condition for foreigners to reach that country, but it is largely not sufficient.
The second necessary condition is that government regulations do allow foreigners to enter. We can only speculate when it will happen, but if we bet 10 bucks I would not bet that people from Europe or USA will be free to enter Colombia as tourists in 2020. Just 10 buck, ok?

You can have international flights resumed, still foreigners not allowed to enter unless for well documented reasons.
As an example, Singapore Changi has been connected to most world hubs and its international flights were resumed 2 or 3 months ago on a reduced schedule, but still no short-time visitors from almost any country are allowed to enter Singapore. The Minister said to forget it at least for the entire 2020. International flights have been resumed for Singapore citizens, for long-time pass holders, or for those others who have to go to Singapore for important business and for an extended period. Basically, only for "essential travel". Also, 2-week quarantine is enforced.
https://www.mfa.gov.sg/Services/Singapore-Citizens/COVID-19-Travel-Restrictions
https://www.ica.gov.sg/covid-19
https://safetravel.ica.gov.sg/

We all hate continence, so at least we should exercise patience, the most important virtue to exercise for the next months.

Fun Luvr

09-08-20, 19:34

It is so embarrassing to see the USA, ...Why are you embarrassed by something you have no input into the outcome? I am not embarrassed by your uninformed statements. I chalk it up to biased, unintelligent opinions. How much time have you spent in the United States during the last ten years? If you had been here and experienced the differences between the Obama and Trump administrations, without political bias, you may be qualified to form an opinion and not be embarrassed.

Black Page

09-08-20, 19:43

Why are you embarrassed by something you have no input into the outcome? I am not embarrassed by your uninformed statements. I chalk it up to biased, unintelligent opinions. How much time have you spent in the United States during the last ten years? If you had been here and experienced the differences between the Obama and Trump administrations, without political bias, you may be qualified to form an opinion and not be embarrassed.I retain my embarrassment, shared by several of my American work colleagues in USA, which I was used to meet often there and in other countries (sigh! Now only telecons!) Some of them are Republicans, and are embarrassed as well. Some Republicans love Trump instead, so definitely it's a very debatable personal opinion!

I respect your opinion, of course, but seeing Trump speaking is objectively embarrassing (remember the bleach?), despite the positive effect he had on the life of some of his supporters. I do not judge this.

I do not know if I am qualified, but I have been a visitor of USA twice a year for quite a long time, and I talk every week with Americans in my job. I simply observe the "love him or hate him" effect.

I note that out of topic discussion was expelled from the Medellin thread into this. I guess there will be a further branching into "Stupid Shit anywhere in the world" and we'll find our posts moved there. Another effect of COVID. We cannot play our hobby where we wish, so we can only read ISG. It's sad, you will agree with me at least about this.

Elvis 2008

09-08-20, 20:06

Why is it that when you want to make a point you select comparisons that are completely dissimilar? Why in the world would you compare Sweden to Belgium and the Netherlands and then say "See Sweden is not having the problem that these countries are."

Belgium has 973 people per square mile. Netherlands has 1,092 people per square mile. Sweden has 59 people per square mile. Don't you think population density plays a major role in virus statistics and how communicable the disease is?

This is a fair comparison Elvis. I'm not cherry-picking the comparisons in order to make a dishonest or deceptive point.

Just looking at those comparisons one might reasonably conclude that Sweden should have been doing what the surrounding countries were doing.What is the population density where most Swedes live in comparison to the Netherlands and Belgium? That is where you analogy falls apart.

Anyway, you are arguing a mute point. The rest of Europe is not locking down again, and they are actually taking on a version of the Swedish model despite the second wave. Everyone saying how much countries in the Americas sucked in comparison to Europe is eating crow right now. The European lockdowns did not cure them of the virus.

Elvis 2008

09-08-20, 20:31

A Democratic plot it is, and of course I realize you are being facetious. Wink.

That whole line of thinking was destroyed when Mr E pointed out all the countries where there are no Democrats yet they are still having trouble with the virus. I didn't bother debunking Mr. E's point because it was ridiculous. I am not going to explain the global power structure.

As for winning the argument, I could care less. I just got tired of you Demorats espousing your libtard economy destroying ways as "science".

The final statement will be on election day. Biden was +2000 on March 1 before the virus hit. That means if you bet $100 on Biden and he won you got $2000. He actually got as high as -165 meaning if you bet $165 on Biden and he won, you get $100. The Corona virus was the greatest gift that the Democratic party may ever have been given and then the Dems let their cities burn. After that move, the latest data shows Trump and Biden in a dead heat on the futures market.

Of course, that dead heat was before Pelosi had to get her hair done. He he.

The best numbers for Biden were July 31, one week after Corona peaked in the USA. Since then, the new cases in the USA are down, and the number of cases now are exploding in India, Africa, South America, and Europe. The belly aching POV that Trump didn't listen to science, dd not lock down enough and that Europe had it right, do not look so hot now.

So do all this Trump said this or that shit all you want. I was actually posting here because I was so damned frustrated than Colombia took the Demorat "science" POV, locked down, banned travel, the economy tanked, and I could not see my chicas. This forum was an outlet for my venting. FWIW, "Irresponsible" Mexico has better numbers than responsible Colombia and "irresponsible" Brazil has better numbers than responsible Peru.

I then read how Peru and Colombia were not serious and I want to gag. The economic suffering in those countries has been unreal, and a lot of was for nothing. Banning international travel was stupid. Thankfully, now they are not serious with the lockdowns. They have seen through the bullshit, and that is all I have ever wanted. The world has come around to my way of thinking now: locking down healthy people destroyed economies and did not prevent the virus from spreading. You guys can go off on Trump and say how great lockdowns are all you want now. It does not matter anymore.

SJobs

09-08-20, 21:48

Its about living in reality and not being desperate. Sheesh. Only people in America are thinking like you--which is why America has 4% of the worlds population and 22% of the corona related deaths! Your way of thinking is what's keeping you out of Medellin! The sooner you understand that. The sooner you can join the team working towards real solutions and helping get this over with. The sooner you will have fun in Colombia.Wow, are you for real? I normally don't like to get involved in meaningless quibble, but this post is so outrageous, it deserves a response. First of all, a suggestion, don't always see things in a negative way. When other people are trying to instill hope on getting cross the border, and sharing real time news and flight updates, we don't need an incognito person to breed negative energy and making groundless assertion such as "we won't be able to get into Medellin until mid next year". America has lots of areas that can be improved, but we also got lots impressive achievements, a less negative view in life can serve you well.

Let's see. We have 4% of the world population, but we got the most amount of Nobel prize winners and fields medal winners, almost half of the leading research institutions in the world are in America. We got the Silicon Valley startup culture which is the envy of the world. Almost all of the top 5 richest people on earth are Americans. Let's see, what else, we are always in the top three in terms of metal counts in the Olympics. Our high tech companies such as intel, google, amazon, Facebook and Apple are literally dominating the technology world. Pretty soon you will see an America monger (A. K. A sjobs) make it across the holy border of Colombia through sheer perseverance, despite all the negative energy he has been receiving.

By the way, we do have a pretty open immigration policy, do you need a link for the application form?

Big Boss Man

09-09-20, 15:36

Elvis 2008

09-09-20, 17:13

I don't know if this is a credible news source but it popped up in my twitter feed yesterday. My heart sank.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-is-predicting-a-drastic-drop-in-demand-for-u-s-visas-for-years-to-come

I can't see any country opening its borders before the USA does. These things in my lifetime have tended to be reciprocal.Dude,

That is not what the article says at all. It is actually good news for those of us wanting to travel. It says demand for travel to the USA is expected to be way down. International travel is a big business, and Trump makes bank on international travelers with his hotels.

Mr Matrix

09-09-20, 19:15

I don't know if this is a credible news source but it popped up in my twitter feed yesterday. My heart sank.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-is-predicting-a-drastic-drop-in-demand-for-u-s-visas-for-years-to-come

I can't see any country opening its borders before the USA does. These things in my lifetime have tended to be reciprocal.I don't think it is suggesting that plan to keep the boarders closed until 2022, but that they do not expect demand for International travel to recover fully until then.

Villainy

09-10-20, 15:21

What is the population density where most Swedes live in comparison to the Netherlands and Belgium? That is where you analogy falls apart.Seriously? You could have chosen other countries, say for example Austria and Switzerland. Countries with similar population sizes and geographical similarities (I. E. Mountainous terrain) but no, not you.

You chose two countries that couldn't be more different because by doing so you could support some vacuous point you wanted to make. There is a word for that. It's called being "dishonest".

On to another silly statement. You really think Nancy Pelosi wanting to get touched up at a beauty salon is a game changer? Really? I'm guessing you haven't been reading or listening to the notes and tapes.

From the Bob Woodward interview where a certain incumbent president acknowledged that he down played the severity of the virus while being fully aware of how dangerous and potentially lethal it was. Somehow.

When I go to pull levers in November, I don't think I'll be voting on Nancy Pelosi wanting a makeover but I sure as heck will be remembering that this president was willing to put American lives at risk by downplaying.

The dangers of the virus and not taking every step possible to prepare the country for what was to come.

Elvis 2008

09-11-20, 15:37

Seriously? You could have chosen other countries, say for example Austria and Switzerland. Countries with similar population sizes and geographical similarities (I. E. Mountainous terrain) but no, not you. There is a word for that. It's called being "dishonest".Been there, done this. Sweden is a success or failure based on which country you compare it to. I have said this before and you are being dishonest in insisting that all other nations that merit a fair comparison to Sweden just so happen to be ones that have fared better. You are making these artificial barriers like population density and now mountains?? The truth is that there are much better and much worse countries than Sweden, but it does not matter with regards to what is happening in the world.

What matters is nations are now taking the Swedish approach based on the most recent data and general lockdowns are now off the table.

From the Bob Woodward interview where a certain incumbent president acknowledged that he down played the severity of the virus while being fully aware of how dangerous and potentially lethal it was. Fauci got it wrong on masks and used the excuse that he did not want people going into a panic and hoarding masks, and you Demorats totally excuse him. Then Woodward releases an interview that he conducted months ago, and it says Trump does the same thing, and you all are outraged. You Demorats are so up in arms about Trump you could be offended by how he breathes. You Demorats are incapable of saying anything good about Trump. There were no wars with him, and the economy had been doing great pre Covid, and you all treat him like he is the devil.

I have said the FDA and CDC screwed up the early Covid testing, and that is relevant and that is on Trump.

When I go to pull levers in November, I don't think I'll be voting on Nancy Pelosi wanting a makeover but I sure as heck will be remembering that this president was willing to put American lives at risk by downplaying.Like there was any doubt how you were going to vote. Pelosi just got a makeover huh? Yeesh. To be a Demorat today is to say that the only person who ever does anything wrong in government is Trump or people affiliated with him. You all cannot even admit when a party leader of yours pulls a total boner.

MarquisdeSade1

09-24-20, 21:50

"I wouldn't care what it did to the macroeconomic scene of mongering. One of the most pathetic things I see is when Gringos try to negotiate these girls down 10-20 mil lower, to what purpose? To make sure you got a "good deal?

BTW your post suggests you've been around much much longer than 20 posts?

I must ask if you don't care how your behavior negatively impacts this community, and you have so little respect for what's in our best interests, why are you even here?

PolloNegro

09-25-20, 17:49

Your logic is terribly flawed. The conclusions you drew are an incredible reach. Funny.

Do Colombian girls target exclusively Americans?

I don't suppose you happen to know what percentage of tourists in Medellin are American vs tourists from other countries do you?

Do people from the ghettos of America hate Americans?

Do you think a desperate person in a ghetto would not rob you? You're American. A black American. Do poor people in ghettos hate black Americans?

I wonder if a desperate Colombian girl would rob a Colombian?

Maybe poor people simply resent people with money..You asked so I will answer.

A. Do Colombian girls target exclusively Americans? Many of them do, not all, but yes, I have attended enough events to now know, they target Gringos because they think we are all rich.

B. I don't suppose you happen to know what percentage of tourists in Medellin are American vs tourists from other countries do you? No, never cared to know.

C. Do people from the ghettos of America hate Americans? Yes, well to do Americans who can't relate to their struggle, yes they do, look at the riots in America right now. More sympathy for a wall, than a human life!

D. Do you think a desperate person in a ghetto would not rob you? You're American. A black American. Do poor people in ghettos hate black Americans? Yes, it is clearly the others who named the term –black on black crime, yes blacks will rob blacks if they feel that you are doing better, therefore, I no longer live in the ghetto, I am doing better, much better.

E. I wonder if a desperate Colombian girl would rob a Colombian? Rarely, but it would be a life or death situation, I know several girls from the park who robbed other Colombians who are now no longer with us!!

F. Maybe poor people simply resent people with money. Do you think? This is getting hilarious.

G. Is it possible that some Colombians like Americans (well enough) but just don't like you? Could it be that you are truly blind to any racism and you refuse to believe anything that does not effect you or have an impact on your well-being, but if it affects others, then god forbid, it is that group of people's problem. Keep it coming.

H. You are a pompous and full of yourself, but those who underestimate others usually are.

Good day, sir, Pollo Negro is out!

Paulie97

09-29-20, 19:42

I would hate to be you. You will give yourself a heart attack soon.

Remember the media telling you:

The microwaves (used to heat food) gives out radiation that will cause cancer and kill you. Yet 90% of all of us have one.

The cell phones gives out radiation that will cause cancer and kill you. Yet 100% of all of us have one.

In the 1980's AIDS was going to kill half the planets population. How did that work out?

About 3 years ago ZIKA virus was a popular doom scenario for 6 months and then nothing. Nothing heard again.

Now COVID. It has killed less than 1%. Mostly sickly and very elderly.

Are you unable to think for yourself or does media have to fill your head like all the stupid kids of today's world?A slew of bogus analogies. There's always been fads as to what may or may not cause cancer, which is niether here nor there. Zika didn't cause bodies to pour out into the streets in many countries around the world, stressing healthcare systems and morgues, thus this is a riduclous comparison. No credible news source made the case that AIDs was going to kill half the planet. It is a disease that is easily spreads through blood to blood contact so care is worth taking in those circumstances and a few others.

Actually the stupidity lies with you and other conspiracy theory peddlers who reject the overwhelming consensus of scientists and doctors the world over who specialize in the study of contagious diseases. Only a moron of the highest degree would believe that these and others in many fields of study across the globe have huddled together to perpetuate a scam. And 1% of the world population is a lot, and it's by no means over. 209,000 Americans have died and counting, seven times that of a normal flu season. These numbers in the US and around the globe would be much higher if not for public measures that have and are continuing to hinder the spread. Also there is plenty of evidence that long term health problems exist in some survivors, lungs, heart, and brain.

But hey, keep spreading bad information on a most serious matter, and with your arrogance, an arrogance that many had until they wrestled with Covid then changed their minds. I've said nothing that hasn't been said before, and am responding to arguments that have been refuted many times before on this thread. Anyone interested I recommend that they look up my post history. That said, I'm moving on. Feel free pile on, repeat the same lies that have been already overturned ad nauseam, etc. I'm done with the subject in monger forums.

MarquisdeSade1

09-30-20, 00:11

A slew of bogus analogies. There's always been fads as to what may or may not cause cancer, which is niether here nor there. Zika didn't cause bodies to pour out into the streets in many countries around the world, stressing healthcare systems and morgues, thus this is a riduclous comparison. No credible news source made the case that AIDs was going to kill half the planet. It is a disease that is easily spreads through blood to blood contact so care is worth taking in those circumstances and a few others.

Actually the stupidity lies with you and other conspiracy theory peddlers who reject the overwhelming consensus of scientists and doctors the world over who specialize in the study of contagious diseases. Only a moron of the highest degree would believe that these and others in many fields of study across the globe have huddled together to perpetuate a scam. And 1% of the world population is a lot, and it's by no means over. 209,000 Americans have died and counting, seven times that of a normal flu season. These numbers in the US and around the globe would be much higher if not for public measures that have and are continuing to hinder the spread. Also there is plenty of evidence that long term health problems exist in some survivors, lungs, heart, and brain.

But hey, keep spreading bad information on a most serious matter, and with your arrogance, an arrogance that many had until they wrestled with Covid then changed their minds. I've said nothing that hasn't been said before, and am responding to arguments that have been refuted many times before on this thread. Anyone interested I recommend that they look up my post history. That said, I'm moving on. Feel free pile on, repeat the same lies that have been already overturned ad nauseam, etc. I'm done with the subject in monger forums.From "someone" that tells me to worry about being kidnapped for ransom in MDE.

https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/13-12-2017-up-to-650-000-people-die-of-respiratory-diseases-linked-to-seasonal-flu-each-year

MarquisdeSade1

09-30-20, 01:01

Been there, done this. Sweden is a success or failure based on which country you compare it to. I have said this before and you are being dishonest in insisting that all other nations that merit a fair comparison to Sweden just so happen to be ones that have fared better. You are making these artificial barriers like population density and now mountains?? The truth is that there are much better and much worse countries than Sweden, but it does not matter with regards to what is happening in the world.

What matters is nations are now taking the Swedish approach based on the most recent data and general lockdowns are now off the table.

Fauci got it wrong on masks and used the excuse that he did not want people going into a panic and hoarding masks, and you Demorats totally excuse him. Then Woodward releases an interview that he conducted months ago, and it says Trump does the same thing, and you all are outraged. You Demorats are so up in arms about Trump you could be offended by how he breathes. You Demorats are incapable of saying anything good about Trump. There were no wars with him, and the economy had been doing great pre Covid, and you all treat him like he is the devil.

I have said the FDA and CDC screwed up the early Covid testing, and that is relevant and that is on Trump.

Like there was any doubt how you were going to vote. Pelosi just got a makeover huh? Yeesh. To be a Demorat today is to say that the only person who ever does anything wrong in government is Trump or people affiliated with him. You all cannot even admit when a party leader of yours pulls a total boner.Shutting down most economies was just stupid.

https://newseu.cgtn.com/news/2020-09-14/Does-Sweden-s-COVID-19-experience-support-the-herd-immunity-theory--TL82pOjfpe/index.html

JgButler

09-30-20, 20:27

Been there, done this. Sweden is a success or failure based on which country you compare it to. I have said this before and you are being dishonest in insisting that all other nations that merit a fair comparison to Sweden just so happen to be ones that have fared better. You are making these artificial barriers like population density and now mountains?? The truth is that there are much better and much worse countries than Sweden, but it does not matter with regards to what is happening in the world.

What matters is nations are now taking the Swedish approach based on the most recent data and general lockdowns are now off the table.

Fauci got it wrong on masks and used the excuse that he did not want people going into a panic and hoarding masks, and you Demorats totally excuse him. Then Woodward releases an interview that he conducted months ago, and it says Trump does the same thing, and you all are outraged. You Demorats are so up in arms about Trump you could be offended by how he breathes. You Demorats are incapable of saying anything good about Trump. There were no wars with him, and the economy had been doing great pre Covid, and you all treat him like he is the devil.

I have said the FDA and CDC screwed up the early Covid testing, and that is relevant and that is on Trump.

Like there was any doubt how you were going to vote. Pelosi just got a makeover huh? Yeesh. To be a Demorat today is to say that the only person who ever does anything wrong in government is Trump or people affiliated with him. You all cannot even admit when a party leader of yours pulls a total boner.I am pretty sure that Trump's biggest issue is his ability to self own and its anybody else's fault than his own. In terms of the economy, it was certainly not because of Trump. He inherited a growing economy, the best in terms of steady growth, and the promptly screwed it up by trying to.

A) Supercharge it with tax cuts for wealthy people and companies. Which resulted in overvaluation and a miniscule improvement in GDP growth, whiles adding a massive amount to the national debt. Funny how he is not a deficit hawk when he is in charge.

B) The tariffs that are totally "being paid by China" in direct violation of WTO regulations.

The hypocrisy and madness of abandoning international allies is what makes the administration seem crazy. And this is before considering any of the morality or health care considerations.

Combo

10-01-20, 00:49

I am pretty sure that Trump's biggest issue is his ability to self own and its anybody else's fault than his own. In terms of the economy, it was certainly not because of Trump. He inherited a growing economy, the best in terms of steady growth, and the promptly screwed it up by trying to.

A) Supercharge it with tax cuts for wealthy people and companies. Which resulted in overvaluation and a miniscule improvement in GDP growth, whiles adding a massive amount to the national debt. Funny how he is not a deficit hawk when he is in charge.

B) The tariffs that are totally "being paid by China" in direct violation of WTO regulations.

The hypocrisy and madness of abandoning international allies is what makes the administration seem crazy. And this is before considering any of the morality or health care considerations.This hackneyed phrase "he inherited a good economy" is bandied about regularly as a detraction of Trump and it's not logical. Given the cyclical nature of the economy, you'd much rather take over when the economy is at a relative low point. Sure you might take shit initially, but after a few years, in all likelihood things will be better. OTOH, taking over when a recovery is long in the tooth is much more risky as the economic cycle likely won't run in your favor much longer.

The things you mention didn't screw up the economy, which was by virtually all measures, in very good shape eight months ago. The only thing that screwed it up was this virus and the ensuing lockdown. Which, by the way, has screwed up at the economy of the entire World, not just that of the USA.

Just Incognito

10-01-20, 13:23

This hackneyed phrase "he inherited a good economy" is bandied about regularly as a detraction of Trump and it's not logical. Given the cyclical nature of the economy, you'd much rather take over when the economy is at a relative low point. Sure you might take shit initially, but after a few years, in all likelihood things will be better. OTOH, taking over when a recovery is long in the tooth is much more risky as the economic cycle likely won't run in your favor much longer.

The things you mention didn't screw up the economy, which was by virtually all measures, in very good shape eight months ago. The only thing that screwed it up was this virus and the ensuing lockdown. Which, by the way, has screwed up at the economy of the entire World, not just that of the USA.Obama inherited a disaster of an economy losing 750 k jobs a month--and flipped it intot he longest sustainable period of constant economic growth in US History! Trump inherited a solid, growing economy. And destroyed it. (just like Bush destroyed Clinton's good economy). The economy had better job growth and was more successful by every measure in the final 3 years of Obama compared to the 2.5 years of trump pr-virus and starting 6 months after trump took over to account for a lag time for trumps initial policies to take effect. Trumps total failure and mishandling of the virus-in every possible way-destroyed what was left of the already on the way down because republicans always screw up the economy--economy. Look at the last 50+ years: democrats paid down the debt, republicans increase. Republicans cause recessions, democrats fix them-lke it or not--that is a fact! Just go look at the data. Trump failed on the virus. The US has 4% of the globa population and 20+% of the covid deaths-in spite of some of the best doctors, most mst resources and highest capabilities to put an effective plan in place. That failure falls on the leadership-trump and republicans--they get 100% of the blame. Their failure destroyed the economy they already hurt. Just like in trumps persoanl life-he inherited a good economy and lots of money from daddy then drove that business into several bankruptcies and lied on his taxes and isn't a billionaire or a successful business man-its all a fraud and a con. --trump inherited a great Obama economy and drove the nation into bankruptcy. He ran the virus like one of his bankrupted failed casinos. Trump isn't even allowed to run a charity because he stole from his own fraud of a charity and never actually helped anyone but himself. Turmp university-another fraud, a total criminal scam--a lie. Like everything else trump. Trump is a racist, a fool and both morally and financially bankrupt--and the nation is following suit under his lack of real leadership.

If you support trump you support racism, bankrupting the nation, mishandling the pandemic, compulsive dishonesty, a con man, authoritarianism and generally are on the wrong side of history on every single issue-from climate change to healthcare to education. Trump is destroying the USA like he destroyed his dads business empire. AND everyone on planet earth except for a handful of racist and ignorant Americans who think more guns amd more shooting people is the same as more peace and less violence-the same Americans who believe in zombies (jesus) and talking snakes who don't want rib made woman eating apples and think the earth is flat. That these stories are more real and relevant than science--those are his only supporters. NAZIS support trump. And dictators like Putin, the Chinese commies, the leaders of north Korea and scum like bolsinaro-who still claims the virus is a hoax--and the leader of north Korea--who trump fell in love with--those are the types who support trump. Meanwhile--look at the countries who dealth with the virus with success: new Zealand, Iceland, Germany, Finland, Taiwan, Thailand. Etc-they hate trump and trumpism and are ashamed of America now. As any sane and rational person would be. You cont believe in democracy or America or the constitution if you support trump. He calls himself the law and order potus--but his entire operation is a criminal enterprise. He has had as many senior staff indicted as every single other potus in history combined!

The only thing trump does that anyone on this site could agree with if they are sane--is pay for pussy--and he illegally tried to cover that up too!

Fuck trump and fuck anyone who supports him. He destroyed the US economy, he is destroying US leadership around the world. He is anti science, anti truth anti fact and anti YOU! Stop enabling the cult! Biden-hardly perfect--but a lot better than trump. At least Biden is sane!

The Tall Man

10-02-20, 00:37

Obama inherited a disaster of an economy losing 750 k jobs a month--and flipped it intot he longest sustainable period of constant economic growth in US History! Trump inherited a solid, growing economy. And destroyed it. (just like Bush destroyed Clinton's good economy). The economy had better job growth and was more successful by every measure in the final 3 years of Obama compared to the 2.5 years of trump pr-virus and starting 6 months after trump took over to account for a lag time for trumps initial policies to take effect. Trumps total failure and mishandling of the virus-in every possible way-destroyed what was left of the already on the way down because republicans always screw up the economy--economy. Look at the last 50+ years: democrats paid down the debt, republicans increase. Republicans cause recessions, democrats fix them-lke it or not--that is a fact! Just go look at the data. Trump failed on the virus. The US has 4% of the globa population and 20+% of the covid deaths-in spite of some of the best doctors, most mst resources and highest capabilities to put an effective plan in place. That failure falls on the leadership-trump and republicans--they get 100% of the blame. Their failure destroyed the economy they already hurt. Just like in trumps persoanl life-he inherited a good economy and lots of money from daddy then drove that business into several bankruptcies and lied on his taxes and isn't a billionaire or a successful business man-its all a fraud and a con. --trump inherited a great Obama economy and drove the nation into bankruptcy. He ran the virus like one of his bankrupted failed casinos. Trump isn't even allowed to run a charity because he stole from his own fraud of a charity and never actually helped anyone but himself. Turmp university-another fraud, a total criminal scam--a lie. Like everything else trump. Trump is a racist, a fool and both morally and financially bankrupt--and the nation is following suit under his lack of real leadership.You are so full of shit, all lies and you gobble this crap up and swallow it whole, gawd have your career 47 year do-notin politician Biden who is as dirty scum as they come with his kid Hunter stealing taxpayer funded money and that **** heels in the air Harris. Hehehehe.

The Tall Man.

Mr Enternational

10-02-20, 05:38

You are so full of shit, all lies and you gobble this crap up and swallow it whole, gawd have your career 47 year do-notin politician Biden who is as dirty scum as they come with his kid Hunter stealing taxpayer funded money and that **** heels in the air Harris. Hehehehe.
I am not a political guy, but you can bet that if there is something that I have not done in 47 years, then I did not plan on doing it. If there is a choice between a giant douche and a turd sandwich, then I gotta choose the giant douche every time.

P.S. I thought it was Headboard Harris; talking about her favorite rapper alive is a guy that has been dead for 25 years.

Just Incognito

10-02-20, 07:09

You are so full of shit, all lies and you gobble this crap up and swallow it whole, gawd have your career 47 year do-notin politician Biden who is as dirty scum as they come with his kid Hunter stealing taxpayer funded money and that **** heels in the air Harris. Hehehehe.

The Tall Man.Everything I wrote is fact.

Trump failed on the virus. Couldn't protect the nation and can't even protect himself or the White House.

I guess all of trumps hydroxy didn't work! Trump has the virus now. Proving his failure in this whole thing.

Trump is a super spreader. The worst source of virus misinformation on the planet. And now he mismanaged himself into being positive for the virus.

Irony!

Trump is inept at everything he does. Its all a giant con!

Arcangel

10-02-20, 13:53

Thank you, Just Incognito, for passionately telling these gringos caught in their bubble what the world thinks about the conman in the White House.

This fake of a president, conspiracy theorist in chief, suffers from twitter diarrhea and too many people just lap it up. It's so disgusting to watch.

Well today something unexpected happened. For the first time ever, the big fat faker tweeted a simple fact, scientifically proven. Maybe there is hope for the US yet.

Iguana Six

10-02-20, 13:59

Gentlemen, can we take our political harangues elsewhere? This is not the place for it, I don't want to learn how to use the "ignore" feature (if we have one.).

Quagmire1974

10-02-20, 14:45

Gentlemen, can we take our political harangues elsewhere? This is not the place for it, I don't want to learn how to use the "ignore" feature (if we have one.).Thank you! This ongoing COVID troll and flame war has infested this forum since mid-July. Even worse, it's now spreading to the Aruba forum and others (go look).

Moderators, or someone who is actually paying the yearly membership fee and has unmoderated status, please create a forum titled "COVID Troll and Flame. " With the President and First Lady now testing positive for COVID, vaccines forthcoming, and nations constantly adjusting their entry procedures, the COVID chat on ISG isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so it might as well be confined to one specific forum.

Fun Luvr

10-02-20, 21:40

Everything I wrote is fact. ...Hardly anything you wrote is fact. Here are a few examples:

"The economy had better job growth and was more successful by every measure in the final 3 years of Obama compared to the 2.5 years of trump pr-virus and starting 6 months after trump took over to account for a lag time for trumps initial policies to take effect. " Job growth (Obama) 2014 1.85, 2015 2.62, 2016 2.42 (Trump) 2017 2.51, 2018 3.19, 2019 3.17.

Obama never had GDP growth of 3 points, Trump did it in his second year.

"trump inherited a great Obama economy and drove the nation into bankruptcy. " The US is not in bankruptcy.

"he has had as many senior staff indicted as every single other potus in history combined" Not one of Trump's senior staff has been indicted.

According to your posts, you don't live in the US. I doubt you are even a US citizen.

Paulie97

10-02-20, 22:57

Iguana Six

10-02-20, 23:06

Thank you! This ongoing COVID troll and flame war has infested this forum since mid-July. Even worse, it's now spreading to the Aruba forum and others (go look).

Moderators, or someone who is actually paying the yearly membership fee and has unmoderated status, please create a forum titled "COVID Troll and Flame. " With the President and First Lady now testing positive for COVID, vaccines forthcoming, and nations constantly adjusting their entry procedures, the COVID chat on ISG isn't going anywhere anytime soon, so it might as well be confined to one specific forum.Do we have a "ignore" feature that would allow me to not see someone's posts for 30 or 60 days?

Could we open up a "US politics" forum? Someplace to put the posts that are NOT related to the hobby?

I don't come here to debate anyone, or try to change anyone's mind about their partisan politics / religion / favorite sports team.

I'm especially tired of being subjected to these harangues from one star posters with low post counts who only started posting in the last year or so. I understand, I've seen this level of righteous indignation before. I think of the 20 year old in 1970 who gets his notice to appear for his draft physical, and within two weeks, becomes an expert on foreign policy and wants you to hear their "profound" observations. Yeah, that guy wasn't a lot of fun to talk to for the next couple of years, but by 1978, after getting a job, a haircut, their first nice car, and a mortgage, could have normal conversations with their neighbor across the backyard fence.

I don't even care about the controversy about Spirit Airlines. (Some people believe that Spirit Airlines is "a threat," others are just as equally convinced it is merely "a menace. ") I can't tell you how many times I have mentioned the name of that airline, and the other person will spend the next 20 minutes telling me how they lost their bag, or had a horrible experience, about how Spirit Airlines is responsible for everything from the sinking of the Lusitania, to the assassination of Ghandi, to the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby.

I know COVID-19 was the camel's nose in the tent, but just keep it on topic to when or when not we can travel, and what things are and are not safe.

Paulie97

10-02-20, 23:19

Just skip this thread since it isn't for you. It's for overflow, and was actually an excellent idea Admin 2 came up with on the fly. And it has morphed into many others, such a Stupid Shit and Rants in New Delhi, Stupid Shit in Kiev, Stupid Shit in the Philippines and the list goes on. These threads solved an age old problem on the site with keeping their review threads on topic as this is for overflow, plus many learn where certain posts belong and they place them here to start with. Cheers.

Do we have a "ignore" feature that would allow me to not see someone's posts for 30 or 60 days?

Could we open up a "US politics" forum? Someplace to put the posts that are NOT related to the hobby?

I don't come here to debate anyone, or try to change anyone's mind about their partisan politics / religion / favorite sports team.

I'm especially tired of being subjected to this stuff from one star posters.

I don't even care about the controversy about Spirit Airlines. (Some people believe that Spirit Airlines is "a threat," others are just as equally convinced it is merely "a menace. ") I can't tell you how many times I have mentioned the name of that airline, and the other person will spend the next 20 minutes telling me how they lost their bag, or had a horrible experience, about how Spirit Airlines is responsible for everything from the sinking of the Lusitania, to the assassination of Ghandi, to the kidnapping of the Lindberg baby.

I know COVID-19 was the camel's nose in the tent, but just keep it on topic to when or when not we can travel, and what things are and are not safe.

Iguana Six

10-03-20, 02:13

Paulie97

10-03-20, 04:42

Good point.Is a good plan, and probably makes the jobs of the admins easier.

Paulie97

10-04-20, 03:38

Brutal yea, but after all the Faux News rhetoric about Biden's health I don't feel bad about it at all.

Flak3

10-11-20, 00:07

I don't get why this is such a hard concept to grasp. If you want a girl that is not a hooker then get a girl that is not a hooker. Don't grab a hooker (from some "premium exclusive website") and imagine she is not a hooker when she sat there and fucked you because you gave her money. Definitions mean something. I have fucked tons of chicks that were not hookers, meaning I did not have to give them money for a taxi, I did not have to send money for their sick aunt, I did not have to buy their kid's school supplies. None of that bullshit you use as excuses to imagine you are not paying the girl to fuck you.

A few months back I was fucking a chick in Thailand that says she pays for the gold Tinder membership or whatever it is. She says there is some kind of way that she can choose the guys that are big spenders or something. This broad said that dudes sometimes give her $300 for a couple of hours. Meanwhile I am giving this chick $30 for all night. She even showed me her paypal of mfs sending money. Just because you found a hooker on a certain website does not mean she is a "special" kind of hooker. That broad is a regular old hooker like all the rest. There is no moderator on websites separating special hookers from all the rest.

That is a door that swings both ways. A mf like me comes along and gives the girl a dose of reality as well. A year ago I fucked a Dumbinican chick and I happened to message her last night. She went on about how she is no longer interested because the $20 I gave her was not enough and she is not a low class hooker. I said well you didn't tell me you were a hooker at all; you told me you own a salon. So I started picking at her how much would have been enough then. She asked for how much time. I said 2 days. She said $500. I started laughing and told her I would pass her number along to SJobs because I knew she was tired of getting high alone.You and Elvis are fishing in different waters so no point complaining about how he fishes or bragging about how many fish you caught. Elvis is looking for "supermodels" aka "10's" and flying them to him (I doubt Heidi Klum was side hustling for $100.00 USD for short time or long time while coming up in the modeling world though. Lots of girls are models, not many are supermodels. In Angeles, PI, you can bang Ms. San Miguel Scorebirds for less than $60 USD) You're looking for girls that will spend all night with you for 100,000 pesos (which is less than the market rate for short time). Elvis wants to spend the day with a girl and not have to worry about giving her half his assets; at least not yet and that's his business. He's read the warnings here and can make up his own mind. If he wants to invest in lottery tickets, that's up to him. You're fishing on the beach for tilapia and he's ocean fishing for tuna. Nothing wrong with either one. One person's goose liver is another's pate. Elvis might be a weekend millionaire and you might be Warren Buffet pinching pennies, but like you said, no one should tell another person how to spend their money (but then you contradict yourself and tell Elvis how not to spend his money).

Blakman

10-11-20, 00:10

But I have no interest in litigating your intellectual rubbish that has no foundation. I just care about f**king pussy at a cheap and reasonable price LOL.

Blakman.

Is unproven, conjecture, and more mystical in belief than factual. I personally don't believe it "f**ks up the game" for anyone, other than if you want to make it personal and emotional. Every mongerer is free to do what works best for them. As I was writing this, I had one foto and one 7 minute video come in from one of my regular girls, just because she likes to do it, for free. As someone once posted about me here, "I'm special," No kidding. On contrast, I used to trade daily notes in my hotel with an old Lebanese dude who told me that he usually paid up front, overpaid, and half the time when he met the girls, if they showed, they might flash their boobs and not even let him touch them. Jajajaja, in a way I think he loved the self abuse. I don't believe either one of these scenarios on the opposite end of the spectrum has an effect what others pay. To each their own and everyone is responsible for their own path. The deals are individual and there is no coercion or Puta Union trying to use price controls jaja.

Paulie97

10-11-20, 02:06

You and Elvis are fishing in different waters so no point complaining about how he fishes or bragging about how many fish you caught. Elvis is looking for "supermodels" aka "10's" and flying them to him (I doubt Heidi Klum was side hustling for $100.00 USD for short time or long time while coming up in the modeling world though. Lots of girls are models, not many are supermodels. In Angeles, PI, you can bang Ms. San Miguel Scorebirds for less than $60 USD) You're looking for girls that will spend all night with you for 100,000 pesos (which is less than the market rate for short time). Elvis wants to spend the day with a girl and not have to worry about giving her half his assets; at least not yet and that's his business. He's read the warnings here and can make up his own mind. If he wants to invest in lottery tickets, that's up to him. You're fishing on the beach for tilapia and he's ocean fishing for tuna. Nothing wrong with either one. One person's goose liver is another's pate. Elvis might be a weekend millionaire and you might be Warren Buffet pinching pennies, but like you said, no one should tell another person how to spend their money (but then you contradict yourself and tell Elvis how not to spend his money).No one is telling Elvis how to spend his money. The "waters" are Colombia, and girls comparable to the ones in the pics he posted lookswise can be found for 12 to 30 dollars a pop, or no more than 60 if you want two hours. He sent out 1500 dollars a month for several months thinking he had girls on "retainer" or "sugar babies." On arrival one said she owed him nothing and the other overcharged him for a business fuck and beelined for the door. This is based on his reports. He can do whatever he wants, but we are free to comment on his posts any way we like within the forum rules and for the good of the community.

P.S. Heidi Klum? Whatever. LOL he did say he had Miss Colombia contestants and virgins dying to see him, so yea, we are all waiting with baited breath. Wink.

Flak3

10-11-20, 03:22

No one is telling Elvis how to spend his money. The "waters" are Colombia, and girls comparable to the ones in the pics he posted lookswise can be found for 12 to 30 dollars a pop, or no more than 60 if you want two hours. He sent out 1500 dollars a month for several months thinking he had girls on "retainer" or "sugar babies." On arrival one said she owed him nothing and the other overcharged him for a business fuck and beelined for the door. This is based on his reports. He can do whatever he wants, but we are free to comment on his posts any way we like within the forum rules and for the good of the community.

P.S. Heidi Klum? Whatever. LOL he did say he had Miss Colombia contestants and virgins dying to see him, so yea, we are all waiting with baited breath. Wink.All girls in Colombia are not the same. Why go to Medellin if you can find the same girl in Bogota? Why go to Centro to casas and clubs if they're the same as the girls in Centro? Is a girl who bangs 2 guys a week on SA the same as a girl who bangs 10 in Centro? You think the girls Elvis was talking to are the same as girls you've found in other places for less. Others disagree. "You're entitled to your opinion but not entitled to making up your own facts" (LOL) Some guys say I fucked someone who could have been Ms. Colombia. And people will agree and disagree with them. To avoid all doubt, some guys pay extra and fuck Ms. Colombia. As long as they're not asking you for money to do it, let them enjoy their journey. Like I said, different strokes for different folks. Your way isn't the only way.

Mr Enternational

10-11-20, 03:39

You and Elvis are fishing in different waters so no point complaining about how he fishes or bragging about how many fish you caught. Elvis is looking for "supermodels" aka "10's" and flying them to himYou mean like the supermodels in the pictures that he included with the report? Yeah okay. He could not even get the chick to take a taxi to an adjacent neighborhood, but you are talking about having a chick catching a plane to come see him somewhere. We must be reading very different reports.

no one should tell another person how to spend their money (but then you contradict yourself and tell Elvis how not to spend his money).I never told Elvis how not to spend his money. I merely highlighted the results of how he has spent it for others that may be heading toward that path. The main result is that you are going to get used. I get it though. Some people need to feel needed. A recurring theme of his posts is how he keeps throwing money at chicks, but still can not get them to do what he wants.

A few months back there was a news story about that American guy that sent the chick in Barranquilla thousands of dollars and when he arrived trying to get his fuck on she said oh we are just friends and did not even let him smell the pussy. He goes around trying to give her a bad name when his dumb ass was the one sending the money. He was not scammed. He just needed to feel needed and thought sending money would accomplish that. It will not.

All girls in Colombia are not the same. Why go to Medellin if you can find the same girl in Bogota? Why go to Centro to casas and clubs if they're the same as the girls in Centro? Is a girl who bangs 2 guys a week on SA the same as a girl who bangs 10 in Centro? You think the girls Elvis was talking to are the same as girls you've found in other places for less. .He posted the pictures himself. Everybody else saw them. Why are you acting like you did not? Which one of those SA girls that he posted resembles Miss Colombia in the slightest bit or something other than the average run of the mill Colombiana? Furthermore how would you, Elvis, or any of us know how many guys per week any girl is banging? Because that is what she told us? Probably just what we assumed because she was on a website that we had to pay $80/month for.

SpiderRider

10-11-20, 04:12

Many mongering hubs have puta unions, but when guys on here try to set reasonable rates for a certain hub, why are there always ISG members no less.

That must object and try to defend paying the hideous looking monger surcharge are they really that ugly and / or stoopid?Likely they are both. But its the stoopid (and pathetically insecure and inexperienced with women) that drains their wallets and their dignity.

Flak3

10-11-20, 05:10

This is continued from the Bogota forum.

I was due to spend the night with Stefany a tall lanky and very horny girl from Barranquilla. She has asked me to fly her to Medellin so she could stay with her cousin and get away from her super strict parents. When she came to my hotel room, it was like a reunion with a girlfriend. After dinner, she took care of me and the bedroom and she was insistent on blowing me and gave me and effort that is outlawed in the sex prison. When I finally climaxed, she swallowed ever drop, smiled and said, "I missed the taste of your cum."He also mentioned flying girls from Colombia to Mexico. "You're entitled to your own opinion but not entitled to making up your own facts. " Thanks for giving me a chance to say that again LOL.

You mean like the supermodels in the pictures that he included with the report? Yeah okay. He could not even get the chick to take a taxi to an adjacent neighborhood, but you are talking about having a chick catching a plane to come see him somewhere. We must be reading very different reports.

I never told Elvis how not to spend his money. I merely highlighted the results of how he has spent it for others that may be heading toward that path. The main result is that you are going to get used. I get it though. Some people need to feel needed. A recurring theme of his posts is how he keeps throwing money at chicks, but still can not get them to do what he wants.

A few months back there was a news story about that American guy that sent the chick in Barranquilla thousands of dollars and when he arrived trying to get his fuck on she said oh we are just friends and did not even let him smell the pussy. He goes around trying to give her a bad name when his dumb ass was the one sending the money. He was not scammed. He just needed to feel needed and thought sending money would accomplish that. It will not.

He posted the pictures himself. Everybody else saw them. Why are you acting like you did not? Which one of those SA girls that he posted resembles Miss Colombia in the slightest bit or something other than the average run of the mill Colombiana? Furthermore how would you, Elvis, or any of us know how many guys per week any girl is banging? Because that is what she told us? Probably just what we assumed because she was on a website that we had to pay $80/month for.People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Your photos aren't breaking the internet either. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To Elvis, his girls are supermodels and 10's. And some people may agree with him. I'm not one of them. I pointed out supermodels don't sleep with handsome, fit, geniuses likes us for $100 per night. But they should. You're happy in your lane. Elvis is happy in his lane. He's sharing his experiences which is what this site is for. Some people may follow Elvis. Some people may follow your advice. But that's their decision. Telling guys not to give girls money because it will end badly, and then gloating "I told you so", doesn't help anyone.

Flak3

10-11-20, 05:57

Likely they are both. But its the stoopid (and pathetically insecure and inexperienced with women) that drains their wallets and their dignity."When you resort to attacking the messenger instead of the message, you have lost the debate. " Or in your style of discourse (in the key of Napoleon Dynamite) "You're an ad hominem fallacy!" Yes, you're a genius, Chris Hemsworth looking guy, who has women hanging on your every word, but trolls for cheap hookers in third world countries because that's how you roll. And the rest of us are lucky you've taken a few minutes out of your busy day advising the Donald, raking in billions from your Buffet esque stock trades, and correcting Hawking's theorems, to show tough love on the rest of us Quasimodo look-a-likes. Methinks thou doth protest too much, sir.

"Rich people value time, poor people waste it. " I can spend hours begging a girl to lower her rate. (Very dignified and confident) I can settle for a not so hot girl who accepts my offer. (Exemplifying my vast experience with women) Or I can pay the extra $10 and have a good time. I'll pay the extra $10. (because I'm super ugly, stoopid and pathetic, but an extra $10 makes me as attractive, smart and confident as you to the girl)

I can always make more money. I can't make more time.

Osteoknot

10-11-20, 06:24

But I have no interest in litigating your intellectual rubbish that has no foundation. I just care about f**king pussy at a cheap and reasonable price LOL.

Blakman.I will speak up every time when I see someone trying to tell others how to behave as a cover for what they want for themselves.

Mr Enternational

10-11-20, 10:27

People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw rocks. Your photos aren't breaking the internet either. You have no logic. I never claimed them to be when he did. I have never put chicks on a pedastal and have actually preached against guys doing it. I have always said that 99% of chicks are average everyday without all that shit they throw on, and I prefer them without the shit. Stop throwing in things that people have not said and attributing it to them in order to make your argument.

Elvis is happy in his lane.So why is he complaining about not getting what he pre-paid for?

Flak3

10-11-20, 11:48

You have no logic. I never claimed them to be when he did. I have never put chicks on a pedastal and have actually preached against guys doing it. I have always said that 99% of chicks are average everyday without all that shit they throw on, and I prefer them without the shit. Stop throwing in things that people have not said and attributing it to them in order to make your argument.

So why is he complaining about not getting what he pre-paid for?You accused me of making things up about Elvis flying girls to see him. I quoted his post and said stop making up facts. Your response is I'm making up facts and I have no logic? So you're the one who coached the Donald for the first debate.

I assumed you were posting photos of girls because you thought they were attractive (because that's what guys do) and you wanted others to see the attractive girls you were getting for $30 per night. I pointed out guys weren't prematurely ejaculating all over their phone and laptop screens once they saw your photos so yours weren't exactly Britney spears getting out of a car without panties. Your response that I have no logic would mean that you're actually posting photos of girls you don't find attractive, because you want guys to know that you're paying money to fuck ugly girls? (because. That's. What. Guys. Do?) Which one is more logical, guy posts photos of girls he thinks other guys will find attractive or guy posts photos of girls he doesn't like and should be ashamed of paying money to fuck? You don't have to call the girls hot, it's inferred when you share the photos. Also, I think you have called girls "hot" when referencing your photos, but you post so much that I'm not going to waste my time looking for it.

Sure, Elvis complained and may be disappointed by some of the girls, but he was also pleased with some of the girls. Also out of a 10 day trip, he's only on day 4. So let's not rush to judge whether he's changing his life outlook based on his recent trip. Complaining doesn't mean someone is unhappy in their lane. You complain a lot, does that mean you're unhappy?

Mr Enternational

10-11-20, 13:35

You accused me of making things up about Elvis flying girls to see him.Are you high or are you just trolling? I am talking about you making things up and attributing them to me saying it. I never said you made anything up about Elvis.

I assumed you were posting photos of girls because you thought they were attractive (because that's what guys do) and you wanted others to see the attractive girls you were getting for $30 per night.Now I get it. You are assuming things on my behalf instead of sticking to the facts of what I actually said and posted.

Your response that I have no logic would mean that you're actually posting photos of girls you don't find attractive, because you want guys to know that you're paying money to fuck ugly girls?I post photos that are relevant to my report, not on the basis of whether the reader may find them attractive or not. And not all the pics that I post are of paid chicks. I fuck a lot more free ones than paid ones.

Also, I think you have called girls "hot" when referencing your photos, but you post so much that I'm not going to waste my time looking for it.LOL.. Here you go assuming again. I am a Black guy and we do not use the word "hot" when referring to how a chick looks. So you are wrong again sir. Please stick to what you actually see in writing and not what you assume has been written when making your commentaries. Of course you will not waste your time looking for actual facts, when it is much easier for you to make them up yourself.

You complain a lot, does that mean you're unhappy?I now see that you are an actual troll. Where is the post that I have complained in? I am always the one wondering and trying to figure out why guys are having so much trouble because I never have half the problems that guys report about. Let us know when you find the post of me saying I paid a chick but did not get what I bargained for. Or you could just go ahead and make it up as you usually do.

Paulie97

10-11-20, 17:06

Stop throwing in things that people have not said and attributing it to them in order to make your argument.Ahh yes, the old straw man, and most commonly used fallacy in internet disputes. The discussion is essentially derailed because so much time has to be used correcting the false attributions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

JjBee62

10-11-20, 17:33

You accused me of making things up about Elvis flying girls to see him. I quoted his post and said stop making up facts. Your response is I'm making up facts and I have no logic? So you're the one who coached the Donald for the first debate.

I assumed you were posting photos of girls because you thought they were attractive (because that's what guys do) and you wanted others to see the attractive girls you were getting for $30 per night. I pointed out guys weren't prematurely ejaculating all over their phone and laptop screens once they saw your photos so yours weren't exactly Britney spears getting out of a car without panties. Your response that I have no logic would mean that you're actually posting photos of girls you don't find attractive, because you want guys to know that you're paying money to fuck ugly girls? (because. That's. What. Guys. Do?) Which one is more logical, guy posts photos of girls he thinks other guys will find attractive or guy posts photos of girls he doesn't like and should be ashamed of paying money to fuck? You don't have to call the girls hot, it's inferred when you share the photos. Also, I think you have called girls "hot" when referencing your photos, but you post so much that I'm not going to waste my time looking for it.

Sure, Elvis complained and may be disappointed by some of the girls, but he was also pleased with some of the girls. Also out of a 10 day trip, he's only on day 4. So let's not rush to judge whether he's changing his life outlook based on his recent trip. Complaining doesn't mean someone is unhappy in their lane. You complain a lot, does that mean you're unhappy?Since I'm, for once, not involved in this senseless argument, I might as well run the concessions.

You're barking up the wrong tree on this one. While Mr. E has his faults and occasionally needs called out on things, this isn't one of those times.

Half of his photos are Whatsapp screen grabs related to his posts. I don't recall him ever referring to a girl as "hot", or any direct compliment. And if he's not happy with the situation he sends the girl packing. At least that's been my take on his posts.

He's a no-frills guy. He writes about how cheap his hotel was and how little he spends on the girls. He mentions the professions of some of the non-pro girls, but that's about the extent of it. And they're all normal professions, nurse, teacher. He boosts his ego through the number of girls and how frugal he was.

Elvis on the other hand, deals in superlatives. If the woman is a student, she's studying something more prestigious than teaching or nursing. If she's employed, she's working a high income, white collar job. She's almost always, according to him a 10 and is described in a way to invoke envy.

Instead of going the cheap route, he sends money in advance to the girls. I have no problem with that. However, as he seems to have experienced, money sent doesn't buy you anything. If you're sending money thinking it gives you some special advantage or access, you are likely to experience disappointment. He buys plane tickets and takes girls to resorts. Everything about his reports shows a desire to impress, the girls and the forum. That's his way of feeding his ego.

However, there are times when his reports don't coincide with the evidence he provides. The pictures are almost always the pics girls use on their Tinder or SA profiles. I don't recall a single one that he obviously took. And the pictures don't match his descriptions. This current batch all appear to be just your typical Colombian women.

If you haven't been to Colombia, beautiful women are everywhere. I used to play a game on my daily 10 minute walk to the metro. I called it the "fuckability index. " Every woman I saw, who wasn't obviously too young, or too old for my interest, I would ask myself "would I fuck her?" The results were always over 80%, with over 100 yes votes. If I try that in the US, 40% is a good day.

The good news is, if you go to Colombia you'll have no problem fucking beautiful women. The bad news is, if you're calling all your girls "10's", "supermodels" and "Miss Colombia contestants", your pictures need to be:

1. Something that could only be taken by you.

2. Of someone who is much more beautiful than the average prepago.

Otherwise people are going to call you out.

Flak3

10-11-20, 20:02

Since I'm, for once, not involved in this senseless argument, I might as well run the concessions.

He's a no-frills guy. He writes about how cheap his hotel was and how little he spends on the girls. He mentions the professions of some of the non-pro girls, but that's about the extent of it. And they're all normal professions, nurse, teacher. He boosts his ego through the number of girls and how frugal he was.

Elvis on the other hand, deals in superlatives. If the woman is a student, she's studying something more prestigious than teaching or nursing. If she's employed, she's working a high income, white collar job. She's almost always, according to him a 10 and is described in a way to invoke envy.

Instead of going the cheap route, he sends money in advance to the girls. I have no problem with that. However, as he seems to have experienced, money sent doesn't buy you anything. If you're sending money thinking it gives you some special advantage or access, you are likely to experience disappointment. He buys plane tickets and takes girls to resorts. Everything about his reports shows a desire to impress, the girls and the forum. That's his way of feeding his ego.

However, there are times when his reports don't coincide with the evidence he provides. The pictures are almost always the pics girls use on their Tinder or SA profiles. I don't recall a single one that he obviously took. And the pictures don't match his descriptions. This current batch all appear to be just your typical Colombian women.

My original post was let Mr. E and Elvis do as they each please. Different strokes for different folks. Live and let live. No point attacking each other because you think someone spends too much or someone spends too little.

Are you high or are you just trolling? I am talking about you making things up and attributing them to me saying it. I never said you made anything up about Elvis.

"Originally Posted by MrEnternational. You mean like the supermodels in the pictures that he included with the report? Yeah okay. He could not even get the chick to take a taxi to an adjacent neighborhood, but you are talking about having a chick catching a plane to come see him somewhere. We must be reading very different reports. ".

Take your memory pills. Like I said, you incorrectly accused me of making things up first. I showed you the post where Elvis talked about flying a girl to Medellin. Rather than acknowledge your mistake you decided to change the subject to the attractiveness of the girls in Elvis photos. When I responded that your photos weren't earth shattering either, you complained you never said they were. So I asked, who posts photos of fuglies? For a guy who's only posting photos because they're "relevant", you sure have taken a lot of offense. My whole point was beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To Elvis his girls are supermodels. Your girls are "relevant" You're both happy, so let it go.

Yes, I could search your 10,000 posts to prove you wrong, again, but you'd just forget or ignore it so I won't waste my time. You're complaining about guys calling girls supermodels when you don't believe they are, you're complaining about guys prepaying for girls, you're complaining about guys paying too much for girls. Etc. Etc.

"Don't worry, be happy".

Flak3

10-11-20, 20:16

Ahh yes, the old straw man, and most commonly used fallacy in internet disputes. The discussion is essentially derailed because so much time has to be used correcting the false attributions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_manA scarecrow pointing out the straw man. Irony.

Paulie97

10-11-20, 20:37

My original post was let Mr. E and Elvis do as they each please. Different strokes for different folks. Live and let live. No point attacking each other because you think someone spends too much or someone spends too little.

"Originally Posted by MrEnternational. You mean like the supermodels in the pictures that he included with the report? Yeah okay. He could not even get the chick to take a taxi to an adjacent neighborhood, but you are talking about having a chick catching a plane to come see him somewhere. We must be reading very different reports. ".

Take your memory pills. Like I said, you incorrectly accused me of making things up first. I showed you the post where Elvis talked about flying a girl to Medellin. Rather than acknowledge your mistake you decided to change the subject to the attractiveness of the girls in Elvis photos. When I responded that your photos weren't earth shattering either, you complained you never said they were. So I asked, who posts photos of fuglies? For a guy who's only posting photos because they're "relevant", you sure have taken a lot of offense. My whole point was beauty is in the eye of the beholder. To Elvis his girls are supermodels. Your girls are "relevant" You're both happy, so let it go.

Yes, I could search your 10,000 posts to prove you wrong, again, but you'd just forget or ignore it so I won't waste my time. You're complaining about guys calling girls supermodels when you don't believe they are, you're complaining about guys prepaying for girls, you're complaining about guys paying too much for girls. Etc. Etc.

"Don't worry, be happy".I must take note of how very unhappy you sound in this emotionally charged, whiny rant.

For myself, laughing at the missteps of delusional twerps like Elvis, who constantly tries to impress the forum members here while simultaneously stepping on his dick is a source of great amusement. Laughter makes me happy, and I try not to go a day without it! Lololol.

Mr Enternational

10-11-20, 22:11

You're complaining about guys calling girls supermodels when you don't believe they are, you're complaining about guys prepaying for girls, you're complaining about guys paying too much for girls. Etc. Etc.You win because I now understand English is not your first languange so you are having some difficulty with definitions and I have to treat you like the retarded kid in the class.

Complain: express dissatisfaction or annoyance about something.

Once again, I complained about nothing. I merely pointed out bullshit.

Supermodel: a highly paid fashion model who usually has a worldwide reputation and often a background in haute couture and commercial modeling.

Did you recognize or were you able to name any of these supposed supermodels that Elvis posted? Once again do they even look remotely like some supermodel that you know and would cause you to confuse them for a supermodel? Yeah that is because they are not fucking supermodels. Words mean something. You don't get to pick and choose and alter what words mean to fit your narrative.

This shit is like The Emperor's New Clothes. Let's act like something that isn't really is so people feel good. I am not a political guy but that is some modern day liberal shit. Let's act like these men with makeup and long hair and dresses on are really females. And if you do not go along with it then something is wrong with you and you need to be burned at the stake. You have come to the rescue of Elvis just like he tries to come to the rescue of those hookers. Unfortunately, in neither case has it worked out.

Sky Ryder

10-11-20, 22:34

Words mean something. You don't get to pick and choose and alter what words mean to fit your narrative.

This shit is like The Emperor's New Clothes. Let's act like something that isn't really is so people feel good. I am not a political guy but that is some modern day liberal shit.I was with you right up until you decided to contradict yourself and posted something silly. Anytime I see or hear someone say, " I am not _ BUT" I know some BS is about to follow. I will just about guarantee you that for every "liberal shit" that fits your definition, I can find an equal version of some "conservative shit" to fit your narrative. This is one of those times, with "shit" is truly apolitical.

Elvis 2008

10-11-20, 23:21

To Elvis, his girls are supermodels and 10's. And some people may agree with him. I'm not one of them.No, Flak, I really am not exaggerating the looks of the women. The photos are just not that flattering. If I had to commit to one, and she is the last one I will write about, she is the least attractive from a physical POV.

A 10 is a 10 not just based on what I say. When I picked up one woman at the airport, all the taxi guys were screaming and whistling at her. That is a 10. A 10 is so intimidating that just if she smiles at a guy with another woman, it will drive that other woman into a jealous rage. When I am with a 10, I expect every non gay guy to stare at her. I want other men to comment on her beauty not just me and say "Damn!" Even though I talk about all these 10's, it is because I work so hard to find them. There were so many who were tied up before Corona, and I was having a hard time finding any.

I pointed out supermodels don't sleep with handsome, fit, geniuses likes us for $100 per night. But they should.You are putting a price on a woman as if that is all that matters, and it is not. Kiara did not sleep me with for a $100. She slept with me for the potential of getting other things including thousands more, and you are underselling yourself Flak, and I know. I was selling myself short for decades. Your attitude should be the women should be lucky to be sleeping with you. It is easily said but I hope some day you get to feeling that way because it is true.

You're happy in your lane. Elvis is happy in his lane. He's sharing his experiences which is what this site is for. Some people may follow Elvis. Some people may follow your advice. But that's their decision. Telling guys not to give girls money because it will end badly, and then gloating "I told you so", doesn't help anyone.You are totally right Flak and thanks for the support. I have not finished but it did not end badly. Mr. E is just insecure with his intelligence and most of his posts are a variation of how smart he is and how stupid others are. He makes decisions too quickly and instead of correcting them will read whatever he wants to fit his point of view.

When he says "I told you so", that is for him not for me nor for you. I am playing a new game, and he does not understand the rules and is scared by it. He is paying women for services. You are limiting your downside with that, but you are also limiting your upside. I am making investments which means sometimes you will see them crap out and sometimes you make a killing. It is not a game for the weak minded and weak willed, and he is scared he is missing out so he puts it down.

Paulie is afraid of the world and he compensates for it with pomposity and just flat out lying. I scare the hell out of him because I see through his BS. He quotes logic as if he is rational but is one of the most illogical and emotional people on here. He may post useful information but only if it makes him look good. I actually prefer Mr. E to him because at least with Mr. E, there is action. Paulie is intelligent but he will write a thesis justifying his inaction.

JJBee is not in the same class as these two. His posts are not as self serving, he actually tries to help people, but he is prone to arrogance, and a lot of his posts are not to help but to show off. We do share something that I wish I was better at, a pathologic need to be right even when being right is irrelevant. Even though we have insulted each other, I have respect for him, and he is not ruled by fear like the other two.

We are supposed to be sharing information about getting laid (the good, the bad, the ugly) and two of these three want to make it about them. If you are honest about women and the game, you will swing and miss and sometimes you will swing and hit a home run. If I swing and miss, these two will say, "You just struck out." If I hit a homerun, they will say, "That looks like a single to me."

Thing is I think most people know that about them by now. If they were not like that, I would be worried about their health.

Flak3

10-11-20, 23:27

You win because I now understand English is not your first languange so you are having some difficulty with definitions and I have to treat you like the retarded kid in the class.

Complain: express dissatisfaction or annoyance about something.

Once again, I complained about nothing. I merely pointed out bullshit.

Supermodel: a highly paid fashion model who usually has a worldwide reputation and often a background in haute couture and commercial modeling.

Did you recognize or were you able to name any of these supposed supermodels that Elvis posted? Once again do they even look remotely like some supermodel that you know and would cause you to confuse them for a supermodel? Yeah that is because they are not fucking supermodels. Words mean something. You don't get to pick and choose and alter what words mean to fit your narrative.

This shit is like The Emperor's New Clothes. Let's act like something that isn't really is so people feel good. I am not a political guy but that is some modern day liberal shit. Let's act like these men with makeup and long hair and dresses on are really females. And if you do not go along with it then something is wrong with you and you need to be burned at the stake. You have come to the rescue of Elvis just like he tries to come to the rescue of those hookers. Unfortunately, in neither case has it worked out.Take more memory pills. I was one of the first people to point out supermodels don't sleep with guys for $100 per night.

Ouchie, you hurt my feelings. You called me stoopid. Okay, Mr. Einstein, you're not "complaining". You whine, pontificate, grumble, reproach, denounce, preach, lecture, criticize, nag, etc. Etc. Or if you prefer more modern parlance whambulance and *itch. I'm just calling bullshit on your bullshit. If you can't take the heat stay outta the kitchen.

Paulie97

10-12-20, 00:05

Take more memory pills. I was one of the first people to point out supermodels don't sleep with guys for $100 per night. And we aren't seeing any super models, just average Colombian girls as to the photos thus far. The same treated your pal like a stranger when he finally saw them even though he was feeding them 1500 a month in WUs for several months. And you want to whimper and whine because someone points this out? Well tough shit buddy. LOL.

You whine, pontificate, grumble, reproach, denounce, preach, lecture, criticize, nag, etc. Etc.Huh? This is you in a nutshell. And why are you so defensive? You must do the same thing as Elvis, send Westerns Unions overseas acting like the bigshot you aren't trying to buy a girlfriend only to get laughed at and shit on. Then when you get laughed at again by your peers in a forum like this you want to cry foul some more. Waaa Waaa Well no one should have any sympathy for you. And in fact we will continue to hold such up as negative examples no matter how much you kick and scream. Get used to it.

Flak3

10-12-20, 00:42

And we aren't seeing any super models, just average Colombian girls as to the photos thus far. The same treated your pal like a stranger when he finally saw them even though he was feeding them 1500 a month in WUs for several months. And you want to whimper and whine because someone points this out? Well tough shit buddy. LOL.

Huh? This is you in a nutshell. And why are you so defensive? You must do the same thing as Elvis, send Westerns Unions overseas acting like the bigshot you aren't trying to buy a girlfriend only to get laughed at and shit on. Then when you get laughed at again by your peers in a forum like this you want to cry foul some more. Waaa Waaa Well no one should have any sympathy for you. And in fact we will continue to hold such up as negative examples no matter how much you kick and scream. Get used to it.You win, you are the toughest keyboard warrior. Calling yourself my peer was a cut so deep I cannot recover. As the last light from my screen slowly fades, my last words to you, find joy in your own life instead of looking for joy in the misery of others.

Kafka

10-12-20, 02:16

I am starting to think Elvis just has a good imagination.

Since I'm, for once, not involved in this senseless argument, I might as well run the concessions.

You're barking up the wrong tree on this one. While Mr. E has his faults and occasionally needs called out on things, this isn't one of those times.

Half of his photos are Whatsapp screen grabs related to his posts. I don't recall him ever referring to a girl as "hot", or any direct compliment. And if he's not happy with the situation he sends the girl packing. At least that's been my take on his posts.

He's a no-frills guy. He writes about how cheap his hotel was and how little he spends on the girls. He mentions the professions of some of the non-pro girls, but that's about the extent of it. And they're all normal professions, nurse, teacher. He boosts his ego through the number of girls and how frugal he was.

Elvis on the other hand, deals in superlatives. If the woman is a student, she's studying something more prestigious than teaching or nursing. If she's employed, she's working a high income, white collar job. She's almost always, according to him a 10 and is described in a way to invoke envy.

Instead of going the cheap route, he sends money in advance to the girls. I have no problem with that. However, as he seems to have experienced, money sent doesn't buy you anything. If you're sending money thinking it gives you some special advantage or access, you are likely to experience disappointment. He buys plane tickets and takes girls to resorts. Everything about his reports shows a desire to impress, the girls and the forum. That's his way of feeding his ego.

However, there are times when his reports don't coincide with the evidence he provides. The pictures are almost always the pics girls use on their Tinder or SA profiles. I don't recall a single one that he obviously took. And the pictures don't match his descriptions. This current batch all appear to be just your typical Colombian women.

If you haven't been to Colombia, beautiful women are everywhere. I used to play a game on my daily 10 minute walk to the metro. I called it the "fuckability index. " Every woman I saw, who wasn't obviously too young, or too old for my interest, I would ask myself "would I fuck her?" The results were always over 80%, with over 100 yes votes. If I try that in the US, 40% is a good day.

The good news is, if you go to Colombia you'll have no problem fucking beautiful women. The bad news is, if you're calling all your girls "10's", "supermodels" and "Miss Colombia contestants", your pictures need to be:

1. Something that could only be taken by you.

2. Of someone who is much more beautiful than the average prepago.

Otherwise people are going to call you out.

Haokool

10-12-20, 02:35

Y'all can brag whatever about COL, I am still waiting anyone to show me a 8/10 that you have scored.

(I am not asking for 10/10, start with an 8.).

Paulie97

10-12-20, 02:41

You have come to the rescue of Elvis just like he tries to come to the rescue of those hookers. Unfortunately, in neither case has it worked out.Touche X 100.

Combo

10-12-20, 03:58

This really is stupid shit.

Elvis 2008

10-12-20, 07:55

I am starting to think Elvis just has a good imagination.Your using the word think Kafka is an oxymoron. You just recommended someone go to the Clock Tower to find women. I was just there. There are no women there.

Paulie said I did not understand present value because you could find a woman as hot as Kiera at a strip club. The strip clubs are closed.

JJBee said my paying money did not grant me any special access. 100% of the women I paid and asked to show up eventually did so. According to this math genius, 100% is not good enough.

And my personal favorite is Mr. E chastising me over the use of the word super model because words means stuff. He looks up the wiki page and leaves off this part, "Supermodels have multimillion-dollar contracts. " he got me on that one. I didn't see a model earning seven figures. Thanks for clearing that up Mr. E. I think that there was a lot of confusion about that.

I am just paraphrasing the inaccurate and incredibly stupid things the four of you said. I am glad that I have united you all in the "we are not stupid, Elvis" club.

I am going to have so much fun with this from now on.

Mr Enternational

10-12-20, 11:27

I was with you right up until you decided to contradict yourself and posted something silly. Anytime I see or hear someone say, " I am not _ BUT" I know some BS is about to follow. I will just about guarantee you that for every "liberal shit" that fits your definition, I can find an equal version of some "conservative shit" to fit your narrative. This is one of those times, with "shit" is truly apolitical.Well that is a dumb presupposition. If I say I am not much into skinny girls, but the way her ass was poking out I just had to have her or I am not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I did manage to squeak my way through school earning a doctorate, you would have known BS was to follow because I said I am not and but? Where are the contradictions in the above statements?

Let me guess. Had I said something adverse to the conservative ideology it would not have been silly at all and you would not have said there was BS to follow? Well let me inform you that I am not a member of any political party and I will be voting for Republicans and Democrats alike in the upcoming elections in my country. I reserve the right to praise and criticize each party equally. As far as my beliefs, there should not even be parties. Each person should have to run on their own ideas and merits, not those of a collective they signed up for.

Sky Ryder

10-12-20, 20:50

Let me guess. Had I said something adverse to the conservative ideology it would not have been silly at all and you would not have said there was BS to follow? Well let me inform you that I am not a member of any political party and I will be voting for Republicans and Democrats alike in the upcoming elections in my country. I reserve the right to praise and criticize each party equally. As far as my beliefs, there should not even be parties. Each person should have to run on their own ideas and merits, not those of a collective they signed up for.Actually I owe you and the board a huge apology for allowing "yanqui" politics to ooze like the slime it is onto this board of all places. I will say that I would agree with your second sentence, however your supposition in the first one above missed the mark by a very wide margin. I am reminded about the story of collecting red and black ants and putting them in a jar. There is not a problem until someone starts shaking the jar and all hell breaks loose. They go after each other until all are dead, and not one the the ants had done a thing to start the fight. A force completely removed was the cause. My feeling about life in the USA these days is we are all "ants" and some outside force is the causal reason for the polarity currently being displayed. I will now revert to the issue at hand. How to best find pleasure in the bosoms of attractive ladies from the world over.

JjBee62

10-12-20, 23:27

Your using the word think Kafka is an oxymoron. You just recommended someone go to the Clock Tower to find women. I was just there. There are no women there.

Paulie said I did not understand present value because you could find a woman as hot as Kiera at a strip club. The strip clubs are closed.

JJBee said my paying money did not grant me any special access. 100% of the women I paid and asked to show up eventually did so. According to this math genius, 100% is not good enough.

And my personal favorite is Mr. E chastising me over the use of the word super model because words means stuff. He looks up the wiki page and leaves off this part, "Supermodels have multimillion-dollar contracts. " he got me on that one. I didn't see a model earning seven figures. Thanks for clearing that up Mr. E. I think that there was a lot of confusion about that.

I am just paraphrasing the inaccurate and incredibly stupid things the four of you said. I am glad that I have united you all in the "we are not stupid, Elvis" club.

I am going to have so much fun with this from now on.Seriously. Go see a doctor. There is an obvious neurological problem you need to have checked out.

I never said that you sending money did not grant you any special access. Where the fuck do you get this shit?

I said, as I've said before and will inevitably have to say again, "sending money doesn't buy you anything. " No matter how much or how often you send money to hookers (I'll explain that concept shortly) there is no guarantee you will gain anything. You've already confirmed, in your own reports, the truth of my statement.

However, let's indulge your hallucination for a moment and assume I said "sending them money didn't grant you any special access. " Prove definitively that had you sent nothing at all, and merely carried on a conversation for the past 6 months, that the women would not have shown up and did all the same things.

How do you prove that sending money got you anything? That's a serious question. With the help of a couple of friends I can demonstrate the benefits of tipping in a restaurant or bar. I can show there's a different reaction from the same waitresses depending on the behavior of a regular customer.

With those same friends I can demonstrate both the benefits and problems with sending money to different girls. But there's simply no way to back up your claim that sending money granted you special access.

Now to explain the concept of "hooker."

Over the years I've dated a lot of women, have been in several long term relationships and was even married 3 times. I am quite comfortable in declaring that, if after the first time I had sex with any of those women, if I had stuck some money in their purse, it not only would have been the last date, with some of them, I'd have ended up bloody and my local reputation would have been in the shitter.

If I had offered to pay the bills, tuition, car payment, rent, etc, for any of them, there would have been an argument and I would be lucky if they ever talked to me again. The only exception would have been a short term loan for some verifiable emergency.

There's a simple reason. None of them were hookers. While several were happy to move in and let me pay the bills, not one (okay there was one) would have let anyone pay them for sex.

Maybe the SD-SB thing is a different style of prostitution, but it's still prostitution. If you had to send money to a woman for 4-6 months, at a rate of hundreds of dollars per month, just to spend a few days fucking her, for which, at least in some cases, you paid more, and the going rate for a 24 stay is $100, then you're dealing with hookers, that make the Gusto prices look like El Centro street girl prices.

As I've always said, I don't care how much you pay, or send, or buy. It's your money. However, when you try to pass all this off as some sort of special access to some special class of girls, you're peddling Bullshit and calling it caviar.

Your description of how the girls were dressed when they showed up at your hotel puts the lie to your words (as does your story about the airport taxistas behavior). I lived in Colombia for a year, mostly sharing an apartment with the type of girl you claim all these girls are. No middle to upper class Colombian is going to show up at a strange gringo's hotel dressed like a hooker. You would have a helluva time finding one who would meet you at the hotel, other than to wait in the lobby for you to come down. She certainly isn't going straight to your room and fucking you.

Hookers? No problem. I always had to tell the hookers how to dress when they came to one of the apartments. They'll happily (often cluelessly) show up at your hotel dressed like a hooker. They'll happily go to your room and happily take your money, because that's what hookers do.

Now back to Kafka's post. He has a legitimate thought. He's certainly not the first to question how much of your posts are fantasy.

After all, the day after I posted that I was talking with 4 non-pros, one which I called "the model" because I feel she's one of the most beautiful women I've ever seen (and because she said she wants to be a model) and another who is a cheerleader (which really isn't exceptional. Cheer competition is big in Colombia), you posted that you were talking with a supermodel and a Miss Colombia contestant.

Not that models are hard to come by in Colombia. I've got at least a dozen either in Instagram, Facebook or my Whatsapp. Several of them are quite well known to the Medellin mongers.

However, your reports don't match the claims. Finding pictures of models and beauty contest contestants is easy. Anyone here can find and post the kind of pictures you've posted. I'm waiting for someone to post the same pictures, because we both know none of the photos were taken by you, or in your presence.

Now when someone like PN or Slapshot posts photos, you know who took the picture. You know the photo can't be found on SA or some other site. The same is true with almost everyone else who posts photos. One guy only posts money shots, one only posts ass pics. One guy always includes a pic of the girl flipping him off.

Only one of your pics looks like the sort of pic a hooker would send to a potential customer (none look like the pic a non-pro would send to a guy she's interested in). Of course that's of "the queen. ".

Everything about your description of your meeting with "the queen" screams "hooker. " Even the desk clerk recognized her as a hooker. She was dressed like a hooker. She went straight to your room and fucked like a hooker. Now you can call her what you want and claim she's unavailable, but we both know that she's ready to jump into bed with anyone who will pay the price.

Oh that's right, she left before you paid her anything (other than the 6 months of payments you already said you sent. Most of the guys here understand this concept. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. I doubt you have many believers that the hooker stormed out without her pay.

So show us some of that extraordinary evidence. Then instead of everyone questioning whether or not you're full of shit, everyone can ooh and ahh over how incredible you are.

Assuming I manage to score with any of the (alleged) non-pros during my visit, I'll be providing something to lend credence to my claims (because I would never ask someone to do something I won't, other than my proctologist).

Osteoknot

10-13-20, 01:08

Were just reported today. I wanted to point this out before someone else here made a misguided attempt at what this means. This changes nothing about everything I posted so far about prior infection conferring immunity. This bring the total worldwide number of confirmed cases of Covid reinfection to somewhere around two dozen, give or take. That's 24 cases of reinfection out of 48 million primary infections. Even if you are not a statistician, epidemiologist, or public health expert, those numbers should tell you there are better things to worry about than getting reinfected with Covid.

Call me when the number of reinfections goes over 100,000 and I will start to give it some attention. Remember, the exceptions prove the rule. Anyone who tells you otherwise, doesn't understand the science. This is not a static situation, I never said that myself and others like me who have recovered will be immune forever, although that is a possibility. But for now, we are. Look at outcomes, not processes, not theories. Ostee out.

Elvis 2008

10-13-20, 16:34

I never said that you sending money did not grant you any special access.

I said, as I've said before and will inevitably have to say again, "sending money doesn't buy you anything. "

How do you prove that sending money got you anything? On the issue of if money works to get you access to women, you have said it never does, maybe it does but I need proof, and Elvis, I never told you the money you spent did not attract beautiful women. So on the issue of if money helps with women, you have said yes, no, and maybe. The amazing thing with you JJBee is that you think that you are clever instead of being what Paulie is, a nonsensical blowhard.

I have never used Tinder.

My reports are honest: the good, the bad, and the ugly, and that is why they provoke envy in people with you. I am glad you admitted it.

As for the women with jobs I see being "high income", two are unemployed. One works as a teacher making $400 a month, and I think the one you are referring to as highly paid is the Mexican lawyer. You do not understand how little Mexican lawyers make. She was making $1000 a month and is down to $500 now in a post Corona world.

My saying I see high income women is like Tinder. You are refuting not what I say but what you want to be true. That is how delusional you are.

I just showed the photo of a woman I met who literally won a beauty contest, and you called her ordinary.

Then you called her a hooker.

And then after I had given her money over the last few months and been conversing with her on a weekly basis somehow you come up with the idea that I am a stranger.

The funny part is the first thing she had me do when she came to my hotel room was to help her sister with her studies over the phone.

Over the years I've dated a lot of women, have been in several long term relationships and was even married 3 times.
If I had offered to pay the bills, tuition, car payment, rent, etc, for any of them, there would have been an argument and I would be lucky if they ever talked to me again. The only exception would have been a short term loan for some verifiable emergency.What is so funny with you JJBee is you make this incredible wise and intelligent comment. I agree with everything you wrote.

But why would you be so fucking stupid to think a six month quarantine is not a verifiable emergency?

And the answer is because you are not thinking. You are so emotionally caught up in the subject of being master of the game, you cannot admit someone is better at it than you.

One of your golden rules, money doesn't buy you anything, has been questioned, and you may have to face up to being wrong which you hate.

I had no problems saying Kiara was a kind of hooker, so why resist with the Queen? Because she is not one.

My giving her money opened up the door to intimate conversation and after talking to her some, she said that she was in love with me.

And running out the door without getting a dime is totally the action of a woman in love and not a hooker.

You are just coming up with all this stupid shit because there is a part of you that knows what I have posted is true.

As for your seeing the truth, that is up to you not to me.

Elvis 2008

10-14-20, 00:23

As for the concept of a hooker, you really do not get it. I have had sex with the woman. There is no expectation of anything. I put money in her purse. She leaves and then I text her and write "If you check your purse, I gave you a gift. " Gifts without strings after sex are fine; paying for sex with these women is not. You guys have no game.

As for my SBs being working girls, you are hurting my feelings here, dude. Sarc. What is the deal with johns and their desire for normalcy and to be at one with institutions? We are all here because the institutions failed us.

The reason men see prostitutes is because it is cheaper financially and emotionally. I pay them to leave right?

Here you are doing the female version of shaming. Women have engaged in behaviors that have trapped men into accepting things against us as societal norms. Once you have sex with a woman, you have to be monogamous. Sorry, I reject that. Another is that women have the choice to abandon a child but men do not. I reject that one too. Deadbeat dad? Fuck that. If I ever had a kid born out of wedlock, supporting that child is MY choice!

Then there is the happily ever after concept. I reject that as well. No one cares if men live happily ever after. That is for women. We are supposed to make them happy.

There are three kinds of relationships: mutualistic where both parties benefit, commensal where one party benefits but not at the expense of the other, and the last is parasitic.

I see non stop blubbering about women being in parasitic relationships but men? It is almost as if those relationships do not exist. In fact, the female parasites have one thing in common. Whenever a woman is unhappy, even if it is her own fucking fault, she will claim to be the victim. Society almost dictates that everything wrong in a relationship is men are assholes. Time and again, I see productive men in bad relationships wanting out being reasonable and women being fucking crazy, and I know why. These women are used to being paid for being fucking crazy.

There are instances where men seeing working girls are being selfish pricks, but I see far too often men just desperate to be in any kind of mutualistic relationship. In my eyes, a guy seeing a working girl is more wholesome to both sexes than a woman sucking a man dry.

And for all this talk of female equality, 1% of female millionaires made their money on their own. 99% of the time it was women climbing on the back of men.

While you are ridiculously focusing on societal norms, JJBee, the sugar baby relationship allows for a long term relationship that goes deeper than just cash for sex. So in marriage, women do not care about male earning potential? Men do not care about looks and sexual performance? The whole notion then that a legitimate marriage is so much more worthy than a sugar relationship is poppycock. Marriage often is a horrible deal for a man with good earning potential.

The beauty of a sugar relationship is its honesty. It allows for emotional commitment, but if one side cannot perform, the relationship can be ended without the drama of a breakup nor attorneys with a divorce.

The real reason women are not working girls in most cases is the stigma and degradation. It is one thing to accept money as a gift from a guy you like and treats you well, and it is something far different to be paid and pretend to like a hundred different men, some of whom are disgusting. Also, while society may not be as accepting of a sugar relationship over marriage, it will tolerate it far more than prostitution, and that allows for a much larger pool of women.

From my point of view, it allows me access to some of the best women, to form fulfilling emotional bonds, and to be in a situation where I get the emotional perks and not be monogamous.

The irony with sugar relationships though just like with all of the other ones I have had is that with intimacy I tend to give more and the other party gives less and less. It is like, "I am fucking you. What else do you want?" Maybe it is because the best women have so many men at their beck and call they can get away with this lack of effort. It was surprising though to actually find one woman who says, "I am going to fuck you so good that you will never look at another woman" and backs it up. With this one, I have to tell her to stop giving me massages, to stop giving me a BJ.

These women know if they really needed me, I would be there for them, but when I say "Hey, baby, I need a blowjob. ", the resistance of some of the women is way higher than it should be, and why is that? Because society tells women any time they are not 100% in the mood for sex, being "forced" to perform is rape. Just like with monogamy though, this needs to be trained out of these women for THEIR benefit because I am not going to support someone who does not please me. This is why so often I have to have come to Jesus meetings but good luck doing that with a GF or wife.

In summary, like almost every other guy, you are focused on the wrong thing, the label. Prostitute, SB, GF, wife is far less important then if the relationship is mutually beneficial. What is so fucked up with men like you JJBee is you are more interested in pleasing society than yourself. That is why probably why you have been divorced so often.

As for money, the whole notion that a sugar relationship is more expensive, I am not going to refute that. It is to my advantage for men to think that. There are a limited number of the best women.

JjBee62

10-14-20, 01:45

On the issue of if money works to get you access to women, you have said it never does, maybe it does but I need proof, and Elvis, I never told you the money you spent did not attract beautiful women. So on the issue of if money helps with women, you have said yes, no, and maybe. The amazing thing with you JJBee is that you think that you are clever instead of being what Paulie is, a nonsensical blowhard.

I have never used Tinder.

My reports are honest: the good, the bad, and the ugly, and that is why they provoke envy in people with you. I am glad you admitted it.

As for the women with jobs I see being "high income", two are unemployed. One works as a teacher making $400 a month, and I think the one you are referring to as highly paid is the Mexican lawyer. You do not understand how little Mexican lawyers make. She was making $1000 a month and is down to $500 now in a post Corona world.

My saying I see high income women is like Tinder. You are refuting not what I say but what you want to be true. That is how delusional you are.

I just showed the photo of a woman I met who literally won a beauty contest, and you called her ordinary.

Then you called her a hooker.

And then after I had given her money over the last few months and been conversing with her on a weekly basis somehow you come up with the idea that I am a stranger.

The funny part is the first thing she had me do when she came to my hotel room was to help her sister with her studies over the phone.

What is so funny with you JJBee is you make this incredible wise and intelligent comment. I agree with everything you wrote.

But why would you be so fucking stupid to think a six month quarantine is not a verifiable emergency?

And the answer is because you are not thinking. You are so emotionally caught up in the subject of being master of the game, you cannot admit someone is better at it than you..Again, seek medical attention. Your ability to read and understand simple sentences is seriously impaired.

You keep saying I said things, which I never said, you take things, which even a child could understand, and wildly misinterpret them, then you accuse me of altering what you say. Either there is some cerebral anomaly, perhaps a tumor, affecting your cognitive function, or you're a fucking idiot. Check with a neurologist and he can tell you whether there's a physiological cause or it's just stupidity.

One of my golden rules? How deep was your head in your colon when you plucked that nugget? My golden rules are:

1. Do what the fuck you want.

2. Don't tell others what to do.

3. Don't cause unnecessary harm.

4. Don't try to convert me to your religion or politics.

Nothing about money makes the list. As for money never buying you anything, it bought me lunch not long ago. If I had known you were so engrossed in fecal matter, I would have sent a picture of what that food looks like now.

For the final time, you get no guarantee when sending a stranger money. You say that sending money to a woman, who you declared the hotel clerk recognized as a hooker, convinced her to come see you. Okay. I understand that is a possibility. After all if your looks match your intelligence, it makes perfect sense why it takes 6 months of bribes to get a woman into the same room as you.

Every one of the posts you write, when the bullshit in your original posts is questioned is full of ridiculous hearsay, which is supposed to validate your original fantasy. This goes all the way back to your Venezuelan in Peru. It's as predictable as the tide.

But nothing you (or anyone else) put in your posts is proof of anything. Here's a simple illustration:

"While we were camping in the mountains of Idaho, my friend's wife called a girl she knew, trying to set me up with her. The girl came and we fucked. I fucked her so good she paid me for the sex. ".

How does anyone know anything in that story is true? What can I add which proves I've ever been to Idaho, or camped in the mountains? If I said the girl gave me $100 and I used it to take everyone to breakfast in town, does that prove anything? What If I said her first name was the feminine equivalent of my middle name? Maybe if I said she was a coke dealer and had a mole on her thigh? How about "she asked me to come live with her and offered to support me?

The simple fact is, I can't prove any of that. Even if I sat you down with my friend and his ex-wife, and they both repeated the story, it's not proof of anything.

The same is true of every one of your claims. You keep insisting things are true and things are facts, yet you provide nothing other than more empty words. Then you are deluded enough to say everyone knows you're telling the truth. Literally not one single person has stepped up and declared they know every word of your posts is true.

You claim your supermodel's accomplishments, yet anyone can pick the same things and make the same claims. If you had bothered to develop a reputation for honesty and integrity, there might be less disbelief, but that opportunity is buried under about 5 tons of blatant dishonesty.

You claim your "queen" won a beauty contest, therefore she can't be a hooker. Apparently you miss every story about former beauty contestants (in major pagaents) accused of prostitution. There's a former Miss America who became a porn star. I remember a stripper friend who won a tattoo contest at a biker rally (Laughlin River Run). That doesn't prove she had a tattoo (she didn't. She won with a temporary tattoo).

First, you can't prove "the queen" ever won a pagaent. Even if you could, that has nothing to do with whether or not she's a hooker. Talking to her for 6 months doesn't make you an intimate acquaintance. The first girl I met in Colombia, in Bogotá, a non-pro, I had talked to almost every day for more than a year. The first time we met it was at a Transmilenio station and she had someone watching over her from a distance. I even suggested she meet me at my hotel and she reacted as if I had suggested she walk down Carrera 15 naked.

Hookers have no qualms about coming to your hotel or going to your room. It's a necessary part of earning their pay. A hooker has no problem about meeting you for the first time and staying the night. Again, all part of getting paid.

The rest of your story is unconfirmed bullshit.

You are reaping what you sowed. Remember all your claims that AIDS never happened? I was just reminded of that recently. I'm rereading "Imajica" by Clive Barker, published in 1991, in the height of the AIDS epidemic in the US. AIDS gets a small mention in the story, yet he does an incredible job of describing the progress of the disease. Remember my post about my volunteer work, along with my wife, with the AIDS, Art, Alive group in San Diego, including a few searchable details and descriptions of a few of the afflicted artists? Do you recall?

Do you recall how you declared everything I wrote was untrue? Remember how you exaggerated what I wrote, trying to make me look like a liar? Is that jogging any memories?

When you call someone else's posts nothing but lies, even when a simple search in the archives of any newspaper will confirm many of the details, you have surrendered the right to demand everyone accept every word, no matter how unbelievable or contradictory, with no means to verify any part of the story, as the gospel.

By your past actions you have placed yourself in a position where every word you write will be scrutinized and challenged.

Which brings us to my parting shot.

On more than one occasion you've flexed your "don't take no shit from women, everyone else is living in fear" attitude. Yet, you let "the queen" tell you "no" for sex, hid the fact you were in Colombia from one, lied about having Covid to another, snuck into the other room to try and keep one girl from finding out about another one.

Put on your dog collar and gimp mask. Not only are you paying 11 women, who in one post you claimed all came to see you, but in another that changed to 7 women (and it's all true), but you're letting each one of them dictate your actions.

Instead of "cough, cough. I'm sick, I can't see you" (after months of paying her), someone with testicles would have either shelled out a few more dollars to get some return on the "investment", or told her "I've given you enough for a bus ticket. Get your ass here."

Instead of letting a woman, who's spending the night in your bed, put you off for sex, someone not living in fear would have told her "I'm fucking tonight. If you don't want to be involved you need to find someplace else to sleep."

Instead of hiding from the one woman, any self-respecting man would have told her he was busy with other things and he would see her on the agreed day.

For all your "me Tarzan" posturing, you're a rather pathetic little boy. You're terrified one girl will find out about another. You keep sending money because that's the only way to get them to like you. You hide and simper and try to convince each of them of your devotion.

Keep at it little fellow. If nothing else, the contradictions are hilarious.

Mr Enternational

10-14-20, 14:46

Certain things are objectively better than others. A steak at Morton's is better than Denny's.Totally agree. But when you pay a Wagyu A5 price for a Denny's steak and try to pass it off as a Morton's steak (or even worse, convince yourself into believing it) then that is just being plain disingenuous. The money you spent on it is not what makes it objectively better, but in your mind you have made it subjectively better and try to tout it as better when everybody else is like dude that is just a Denny's steak. Spending $10,000 on a coach seat does not make it a private jet.

Kazeu

10-14-20, 15:57

Really? You bust on this girl for trying to get roughly $6 instead of $3 for taxi? Better to pick your wars. If she's trying to con you into 600 K for a session when 200 K is a good day for her, that's one thing but come on man 3 bucks? Jajaj I have a favorite I sneak in, every other trip when my girl was in class. I would give her 20 K for the taxi and one day I followed her down stairs to give her a tube of VS lotion she forgot and I saw her running down the street to catch the bus. To her the 20 k was more valuable to her than the luxury of a taxi. I never said anything and I totally understand where she was coming from. She's a good kid, we have never even talked about how much or how long before or after, she just is happy with what I give her. Usually 200 + 20 for taxi. And she gives 100% every time I see her. My time with her is so hot she could probably get double from a lot of you guys because she's that good. I'll give her a gift from time to time but I don't change our price structure.You really want to start another OMG you pay XXX vs I pay XXX discussion? Didn't we just get over one recently here?

You pay what you want. I will pay what I want. If you really don't care that much about 3 dollars vs 6 dollars, I got a venmo account for you to send me 6 dollars for all of my girls taxis.

Kazeu

10-14-20, 16:05

You really want to start another OMG you pay XXX vs I pay XXX discussion? Didn't we just get over one recently here?

You pay what you want. I will pay what I want. If you really don't care that much about 3 dollars vs 6 dollars, I got a venmo account for you to send me 6 dollars for all of my girls taxis.You probably also want to criticize me for never tipping. Please go ahead. And send me additional for all the tips I never leave. After all its only 3 dollars.

One of my best friends does this whenever we go out to eat in the states. I always leave "just" 15% and since he used to work in the service industry he feels its his moral obligation to make all the people he eats with pay the same percentage as he would which ends up between 20 to 25%. I hate to tell him that I fucking hate even leaving 15%. I'd rather leave nothing. So fucking raise the prices on me. Thats the best thing for everyone, lets agree on a deal a price and I will pay it and you will serve me my food.

The same thing goes with fucking chicas. Lets agree on a price and a taxi and I will pay the price. In this case she agreed on the price and I paid it. And she was happy when she left and I was happy with the session.

If you don't want to read my posts about how little I'm paying becuase you enjoy paying more, please feel free to block all my posts.

I'm glad you get a good deal for 200 k, I was a newbie once and I paid 200 k before, but I haven't since. I don't come to this forum to learn how to pay more money for sex. I could just stay in the states to do that.

Black Page

10-14-20, 16:43

I always leave "just" 15% and since he used to work in the service industry he feels its his moral obligation to make all the people he eats with pay the same percentage as he would which ends up between 20 to 25%. I hate to tell him that I fucking hate even leaving 15%. .We European always feel this US 15%-20% gratuity thing a real extortion every time we go to USA. If the bill for my table dinner is $500, why the heck should we give $100 to the waiter?? At the end of the night, the waiters collect a basic monthly salary. Every night. Hard to accept this.

In Europe, we leave 5 EUR to show our appreciation for the service. I remember once, when I wanted to leave 2 SGD on the table after my dinner in Singapore. The waitress run me back, calling me when I was already out of the restaurant, presenting me the 2 SGD note "Hey Mr you forgot this money!

MarquisdeSade1

10-14-20, 16:44

Surfer500

10-14-20, 17:03

Kazeu

10-14-20, 17:21

LatinaLover#1

10-14-20, 18:04

You probably also want to criticize me for never tipping. Please go ahead. And send me additional for all the tips I never leave. After all its only 3 dollars.

One of my best friends does this whenever we go out to eat in the states. I always leave "just" 15% and since he used to work in the service industry he feels its his moral obligation to make all the people he eats with pay the same percentage as he would which ends up between 20 to 25%. I hate to tell him that I fucking hate even leaving 15%. I'd rather leave nothing. So fucking raise the prices on me. Thats the best thing for everyone, lets agree on a deal a price and I will pay it and you will serve me my food.

The same thing goes with fucking chicas. Lets agree on a price and a taxi and I will pay the price. In this case she agreed on the price and I paid it. And she was happy when she left and I was happy with the session.

If you don't want to read my posts about how little I'm paying becuase you enjoy paying more, please feel free to block all my posts.

I'm glad you get a good deal for 200 k, I was a newbie once and I paid 200 k before, but I haven't since. I don't come to this forum to learn how to pay more money for sex. I could just stay in the states to do that.I'm not telling you what to pay a girl, all I said was your a fucken skinflint for 3 fucken dollars. Sorry if you a broke ass ugly American. And now that you want to get down no problem, I've been all over the world for more years that you've been alive. And If I want to pay a woman I have known for years 200 cop I'll do it. But I don't and I will never travel on the last 3 dollars in my wallet like you. I know guys like you, your the last one to pick up the check, you'll walk 400 meters to catch a cab going your way on the street, stay in a pig sty to save you last few pesos. So crawl back into your hole and count your pennies.

Kazeu

10-14-20, 18:14

I'm not telling you what to pay a girl, all I said was your a fucken skinflint for 3 fucken dollars. Sorry if you a broke ass ugly American. And now that you want to get down no problem, I've been all over the world for more years that you've been alive. And If I want to pay a woman I have known for years 200 cop I'll do it. But I don't and I will never travel on the last 3 dollars in my wallet like you. I know guys like you, your the last one to pick up the check, you'll walk 400 meters to catch a cab going your way on the street, stay in a pig sty to save you last few pesos. So crawl back into your hole and count your pennies.

Now you're just getting personal. Don't get your panties in a bunch. I said nothing about you or how much you pay. I simply said I chose to do things differently. You have no idea who I am or what my situation is.

And you are telling me what to pay a girl. Taxi money is part of the payment.

I don't care how many times you've been around the world. You don't even know how old I am. Why does that even matter? I just asked that people don't judge other people for their strategies and I do the same. Now you're trying to throw insults. I never made any judgements about you paying 200 k. If you're happy with that. That's great. I said. I'm happy paying my 100 and not paying for taxis. I specifically avoid judging people on this board just because they don't do the same things as I do.

Like I said, I will gladly accept your 3 dollars if it means so little to you. And I will send you pics and videos for it and send you my gracious thank you. Since 3 dollars means so little to you and so much to me.

Kazeu

10-14-20, 19:57

Touche' kazeu!LOL. Sorry I may have been a little overpassionate in my response. Catching a little jjbee vibe. <wink>

Flak3

10-14-20, 20:25

Totally agree. But when you pay a Wagyu A5 price for a Denny's steak and try to pass it off as a Morton's steak (or even worse, convince yourself into believing it) then that is just being plain disingenuous. The money you spent on it is not what makes it objectively better, but in your mind you have made it subjectively better and try to tout it as better when everybody else is like dude that is just a Denny's steak. Spending $10,000 on a coach seat does not make it a private jet.Paying more won't change the fact that you're eating a Denny's steak, but the context matters. Would you pay $1,000 for a Denny's steak if it was the last steak on Earth? People value things differently and are willing to pay more or less for something based on the situation. Why does the price of a coach seat change depending on day and time? The seat is the same, the flight is going to the same place, you're not getting anything extra, but the price is more. (Holidays, Summer, morning vs. Evening, Friday vs. Monday, etc) And people are willing to pay it because that time and date are valuable to them based on their situation. Similarly, when a flight is oversold, the airline offers people money for their ticket. Again, it's the same seat, but now the airline is offering you hundreds of dollars over the price they sold it to you. And some people will accept the offer while others won't. The seat hasn't changed, but its subjective value has changed. And depending on the situation, a seat in coach could be worth $10,000. Would you pay $10,000 for a seat in coach on the last flight out of a quarantined country during a pandemic without a cure? If you're SJobs, you might pay $10,000 for the last flight in to have all the girls to yourself.

Only 1 thing you listed is objective, except you introduced a false equivalence. A vacation is objectively better than a prison sentence, but a vacation in Hawaii is not equivalent to a prison sentence in Siberia.

A steak at Morton's isn't better to a vegan. First class isn't better to someone who values price over comfort. The rating of 0 to 10 is subjective. Sex with a Nympho is nor objectively better. Not when, after barebacking her she tells you she barebacked 3 strangers today. And you went down on her.

However, you missed the point. How do you compare subjective experiences between 2 people? Did you enjoy your steak at Morton's more than the vegan enjoyed her favorite meal at her favorite restaurant?Objective means without personal bias or preference. Diet and spending habits are not objective. I didn't say anything about a vacation, just the weather during winter in Hawaii vs Siberia, as hyperbole. And yes, you can compare two experiences and determine which was better. You agree a vacation is better than prison. Certain things are better. But you're right, the context matters.

Objectively, certain things are better, but subjectively, it may not be their preference. Two people fucking on 1,000 count Egyptian cotton sheets are having a better time than two people fucking on sand paper (more hyperbole). Or sticking with Hawaii and Siberia. Sex in Hawaii is better than sex in Prison LOL. You don't need to fly first class to visit Medellin. You also don't need to fly coach. You don't need a penthouse in Medellin. You also don't need to stay at a hostel. But first class and a penthouse would make it more fun, but how much more and whether that extra little bit is worth the extra cost, is for each person to decide for themself. Yes, we can judge whether someone had a better time. Should we, no.

Mr Enternational

10-14-20, 20:59

Sangnyc21

10-14-20, 22:43

Kazeu

10-14-20, 23:11

You ever notice its the same bitter people that insult others when they over pay or spend too much?

They don't offer a helpful message saying you should pay a certain amount but its always they're "fools" or "dumb".

People who travel on a budget can still be generous but what's mind boggling is some of you are truly bitter towards women in general and its pretty obvious.

I'm not going to call guys out but its hilarious some of you travel the world to get pussy and act like its an accomplishment that you paid less than others.

The fact that some of you guys haggle over literally pennies and nickels is disturbing.

They need the $$ more than you if you're willing to spend it on their bodies.

And some guys say they talk to girls and make fun of guys who overpay and the girls call them fools?

I guarantee you that girl would rather be with the fool than with your broke ass. This is all about money to them nothing more nothing less.

Wake up guys! We all have different budgets and different levels of income. Stop being so fuckin bitter and lets just use this board for info.I don't think I've ever called anyone else a fool for paying what they want to pay. I've only called myself for fool for paying more than I needed to pay in the past. The only reason I tell people how much I pay on this board, is because I think it is relevant. How many people come to this board and the first thing they ask is "Whats the going rate for XXX in medellin?" My pricing is a data point you can put into your calculations if you want to. If you don't want to, that's up to you. I'm not forcing it down anyone's throat.

I'm not bitter at all towards these women. Why would I be? Why would you think that? Because I try to negociate with them? Its part of the game. Are you bitter at everyone who tries to negotiate a better price with you? Do you think the girls are bitter at me because I don't pay them 200 k or 300 k per session? If they are, I can't tell. They all seem happy to me. If they don't want to session for what I pay, that's fine too. I move on. And they move on.

Keep in mind that this is a lifestyle for me. I don't come down to Medellin for 1 week and spend all my money as a 1 week millionaire. I'm down here for a much longer term. Which means I have a something that a those guys don't have: time. I can wait for a better deal. Guys coming down for a week, don't really have that luxury.

I think that's a very concrete divide. The people who try to spend less are probably spending more over a longer term and more chicas. The ones who come down for a limited time spend more on a per chica basis.

MarquisdeSade1

10-14-20, 23:12

Sangnyc21

10-14-20, 23:18

I don't think I've ever called anyone else a fool for paying what they want to pay. I've only called myself for fool for paying more than I needed to pay in the past. The only reason I tell people how much I pay on this board, is because I think it is relevant. How many people come to this board and the first thing they ask is "Whats the going rate for XXX in medellin?" My pricing is a data point you can put into your calculations if you want to. If you don't want to, that's up to you. I'm not forcing it down anyone's throat.

I'm not bitter at all towards these women. Why would I be? Why would you think that? Because I try to negociate with them? Its part of the game. Are you bitter at everyone who tries to negotiate a better price with you? Do you think the girls are bitter at me because I don't pay them 200 k or 300 k per session? If they are, I can't tell. They all seem happy to me. If they don't want to session for what I pay, that's fine too. I move on. And they move on.

Keep in mind that this is a lifestyle for me. I don't come down to Medellin for 1 week and spend all my money as a 1 week millionaire. I'm down here for a much longer term. Which means I have a something that a those guys don't have: time. I can wait for a better deal. Guys coming down for a week, don't really have that luxury.

I think that's a very concrete divide. The people who are more try to spend less are probably spending more over a longer term and more chicas. The ones who come down for a limited time spend more on a per chica basis.I never mentioned you I made a general statement. I've had arguments of this subject so many times on this board.

MarquisdeSade1

10-14-20, 23:18

I don't think I've ever called anyone else a fool for paying what they want to pay. I've only called myself for fool for paying more than I needed to pay in the past. The only reason I tell people how much I pay on this board, is because I think it is relevant. How many people come to this board and the first thing they ask is "Whats the going rate for XXX in medellin?" My pricing is a data point you can put into your calculations if you want to. If you don't want to, that's up to you. I'm not forcing it down anyone's throat.

I'm not bitter at all towards these women. Why would I be? Why would you think that? Because I try to negociate with them? Its part of the game. Are you bitter at everyone who tries to negotiate a better price with you? Do you think the girls are bitter at me because I don't pay them 200 k or 300 k per session? If they are, I can't tell. They all seem happy to me. If they don't want to session for what I pay, that's fine too. I move on. And they move on.

Keep in mind that this is a lifestyle for me. I don't come down to Medellin for 1 week and spend all my money as a 1 week millionaire. I'm down here for a much longer term. Which means I have a something that a those guys don't have: time. I can wait for a better deal. Guys coming down for a week, don't really have that luxury.

I think that's a very concrete divide. The people who are more try to spend less are probably spending more over a longer term and more chicas. The ones who come down for a limited time spend more on a per chica basis.If they feel inferior for overpaying they should.

Its not your fault or your job to give them an excuse for doing it.

Kazeu

10-14-20, 23:20

I never mentioned you I made a general statement. I've had arguments of this subject so many times on this board.Yea, its quite a contentious topic of discussion.

Paulie97

10-14-20, 23:53

The fact that some of you guys haggle over literally pennies and nickels is disturbing.

They need the $$ more than you if you're willing to spend it on their bodies.

And some guys say they talk to girls and make fun of guys who overpay and the girls call them fools?

I guarantee you that girl would rather be with the fool than with your broke ass. This is all about money to them nothing more nothing less.

Wake up guys! We all have different budgets and different levels of income. Stop being so fuckin bitter and lets just use this board for info.Truth is the one who sounds bitter is you. Yea girls laugh at guys they can charge three times the going rate. They especially laugh at guys that send 1000+ a month in Western Unions only to get charged again, and for a business fuck only. They'll of course still see such guys though. And you have a false equivalence going. Not being a sucker doesn't mean you're broke. In fact in this game the ones throwing around the $ are usually the ones that have little beyond a couple of brief vacations per year.

Blakman

10-15-20, 00:21

Now sangnyc, guys who penny pinch about a few dollars are never bitter towards the girls. At least I can speak for myself. I understand I am offering way less so a rejection is expected. My thought process is I am the prize not you. If you want me you accept what I offer. Now I give it to you that sometimes a penny pincher can over do it at times and miss out. But again the attitude I am not paying what is over your worth. Here is the most humorous part. The free spenders similar to elvis, sjobs. Firmly assume that the wealth they proclaim can control these girls and will be at there beckoning. It is these guys that become bitter and call these girls putas. When they discover the wealth meant nothing to these girls as they still rather be with there non income colombian novios LOL.

I don't think I've ever called anyone else a fool for paying what they want to pay. I've only called myself for fool for paying more than I needed to pay in the past. The only reason I tell people how much I pay on this board, is because I think it is relevant. How many people come to this board and the first thing they ask is "Whats the going rate for XXX in medellin?" My pricing is a data point you can put into your calculations if you want to. If you don't want to, that's up to you. I'm not forcing it down anyone's throat.

I'm not bitter at all towards these women. Why would I be? Why would you think that? Because I try to negociate with them? Its part of the game. Are you bitter at everyone who tries to negotiate a better price with you? Do you think the girls are bitter at me because I don't pay them 200 k or 300 k per session? If they are, I can't tell. They all seem happy to me. If they don't want to session for what I pay, that's fine too. I move on. And they move on.

Keep in mind that this is a lifestyle for me. I don't come down to Medellin for 1 week and spend all my money as a 1 week millionaire. I'm down here for a much longer term. Which means I have a something that a those guys don't have: time. I can wait for a better deal. Guys coming down for a week, don't really have that luxury.

I think that's a very concrete divide. The people who try to spend less are probably spending more over a longer term and more chicas. The ones who come down for a limited time spend more on a per chica basis..

MarquisdeSade1

10-15-20, 01:45

MarquisdeSade1

10-15-20, 04:56

If these girls are prepagos the $$$ is the only thing that matters.

You're right they are going to go back to their broke Colombian novios in their ghetto barrios.

I'm personally not looking to make an emotional connection with these girls. I'm only interested in doing dirty things to them.

And every once in a while I see a girl I must have I'll pay whatever it takes as long as she agrees to my terms.

The next day I wake up I don't feel regret or the need for anything more.

We are mongering here, fucking for sport. Not looking for love.If these girls are prepagos the $$$ is the only thing that matters.

Some hookers I meet working somewhere fuck me for free, without me even asking.

What's up with that?

JjBee62

10-15-20, 20:46

We European always feel this US 15%-20% gratuity thing a real extortion every time we go to USA. If the bill for my table dinner is $500, why the heck should we give $100 to the waiter?? At the end of the night, the waiters collect a basic monthly salary. Every night. Hard to accept this.

In Europe, we leave 5 EUR to show our appreciation for the service. I remember once, when I wanted to leave 2 SGD on the table after my dinner in Singapore. The waitress run me back, calling me when I was already out of the restaurant, presenting me the 2 SGD note "Hey Mr you forgot this money!I can explain that one to you.

In the US, in most states, the minimum wage for waitstaff is $2.13 per hour. Without tips a waitress makes $17 in 8 hours.

I believe every state requires the employer to guarantee $7.25 per hour, if there are not enough customers or tips, but in those situations most restaurants just send people home, rather than pay them.

During slow times a lot of waitresses are bringing home less than $100 per week.

If tipping bothers you, don't tip. If you don't want to tip more than 10-15%, don't. Just don't make a habit of returning to the same restaurant. Unless you enjoy having your food seasoned with phlegm and testicles.

Myself, unless the service sucked, I tip. Mostly I eat at cheap places, making a big, 30% tip, about $3. 50. I tend to frequent the same restaurants. I tend to have very few complaints. I tend to get occasional perks: a free dessert, free drink, getting moved to the top of the list when people are waiting for a table, getting seated in my preferred section, getting my preferred waitress, handshakes and hugs. In my opinion, the $150 extra I spend on tips each year is a good investment. It, so I believe, gives me the dining experience I want.

JjBee62

10-15-20, 20:51

I remember while in Japan it was considered an insult to even leave a tip. To bad there aren't more Countries like this in the World. I remember several years ago eating lunch with my boss in a diner. The service was horrific, and after we got the bill and the waitress came back with the change my boss left 2 cents on the table as the tip. Instead of leaving nothing as though it had been an oversight, it was a very stark way of saying the service sucked.There's actually a forgotten code for tipping. If the service sucks you leave a penny. If you leave nothing, you may have just forgot.

If the service is excellent you leave a standard tip plus a penny. A big tip might just be because you didn't have change. The extra penny shows it was intentional.

Of course now everyone just uses a card.

JjBee62

10-15-20, 20:55

LOL. Sorry I may have been a little overpassionate in my response. Catching a little jjbee vibe.It might make others uncomfortable, but I'm happy you think of me and become passionate. Just don't send me the pictures.

JjBee62

10-15-20, 21:22

Paying more won't change the fact that you're eating a Denny's steak, but the context matters. Would you pay $1,000 for a Denny's steak if it was the last steak on Earth? People value things differently and are willing to pay more or less for something based on the situation. Why does the price of a coach seat change depending on day and time? The seat is the same, the flight is going to the same place, you're not getting anything extra, but the price is more. (Holidays, Summer, morning vs. Evening, Friday vs. Monday, etc) And people are willing to pay it because that time and date are valuable to them based on their situation. Similarly, when a flight is oversold, the airline offers people money for their ticket. Again, it's the same seat, but now the airline is offering you hundreds of dollars over the price they sold it to you. And some people will accept the offer while others won't. The seat hasn't changed, but its subjective value has changed. And depending on the situation, a seat in coach could be worth $10,000. Would you pay $10,000 for a seat in coach on the last flight out of a quarantined country during a pandemic without a cure? If you're SJobs, you might pay $10,000 for the last flight in to have all the girls to yourself.

Objective means without personal bias or preference. Diet and spending habits are not objective. I didn't say anything about a vacation, just the weather during winter in Hawaii vs Siberia, as hyperbole. And yes, you can compare two experiences and determine which was better. You agree a vacation is better than prison. Certain things are better. But you're right, the context matters..You seem to understand the difference between objective and subjective, but you don't understand the difference between objective and subjective.

Comparing prison sex to vacation sex is a false equivalence. Comparing sandpaper to 1000 thread count Egyptian cotton is hyperbole.

Leave prison and sandpaper out of it. Is sex in Hawaii better for every person on earth than sex in Siberia? Is a steak at Morton's a better meal to every person?

The answer is no. When it comes to pleasure, there is very little, if anything that is objective. I knew a Dominatrix in Phoenix. The things guys begged her to do would cause you to yak up that Morton's steak all over your first class seat. I met a guy in Seattle who was passionately in love with a woman 40 years older than him and he was in his 30's. There are guys on here who are crazy about huge asses or tits, no matter how saggy, or how awful the surgery.

You can't, in any way compare someone else's experiences to your own experiences objectively. All you can make is a subjective judgement.

Sitting in coach, I once watched the woman in front of me masturbate. Did I enjoy that more than you enjoyed flying first class?

Riding on a Greyhound Bus, I once woke up to a 19 year old cutie, sitting on my lap and squirming on my dick. I was 17. Did I enjoy that more than you enjoyed riding in a limo?

That probably needs an explanation. In Tallahassee, a few of us ran to a nearby liquor store, each bought a bottle of cheap wine and snuck it on the bus. I was in a drunken sleep in the smoking section, and there were no empty seats in the smoking section. So the woman picked my lap as a good place to sit.

JjBee62

10-15-20, 21:35

I don't think I've ever called anyone else a fool for paying what they want to pay. I've only called myself for fool for paying more than I needed to pay in the past. The only reason I tell people how much I pay on this board, is because I think it is relevant. How many people come to this board and the first thing they ask is "Whats the going rate for XXX in medellin?" My pricing is a data point you can put into your calculations if you want to. If you don't want to, that's up to you. I'm not forcing it down anyone's throat.

I'm not bitter at all towards these women. Why would I be? Why would you think that? Because I try to negociate with them? Its part of the game. Are you bitter at everyone who tries to negotiate a better price with you? Do you think the girls are bitter at me because I don't pay them 200 k or 300 k per session? If they are, I can't tell. They all seem happy to me. If they don't want to session for what I pay, that's fine too. I move on. And they move on.

Keep in mind that this is a lifestyle for me. I don't come down to Medellin for 1 week and spend all my money as a 1 week millionaire. I'm down here for a much longer term. Which means I have a something that a those guys don't have: time. I can wait for a better deal. Guys coming down for a week, don't really have that luxury.

I think that's a very concrete divide. The people who try to spend less are probably spending more over a longer term and more chicas. The ones who come down for a limited time spend more on a per chica basis.There you go. This one is a good one.

People ask for and need information. Some of us give it. Some of them then go and have fun and report back, and the forum serves its purpose.

Unfortunately, too many insist their way is the best way, or the only way. Then they either rationalize it or try to prove it ("the chicas all tell me they think the guys who pay too much are fools".

If you're paying someone for sex and you spend your time finding out what other guys pay and what the girls think about them, perhaps you don't understand the concept of paying for sex. I can understand having a conversation. I can't understand how the topic ever gets to "what about guys who pay more than I pay?

JjBee62

10-15-20, 21:58

If they feel inferior for overpaying they should.

Its not your fault or your job to give them an excuse for doing it.I don't. When I overpay, I don't feel inferior. When I underpay, I don't feel inferior. I'm the guy everyone calls arrogant. Remember?

I don't really understand the concept of overpaying for sex. Where exactly is that price tag located? Is there a barcode somewhere I need to scan?

If overpaying for sex is an actual thing, every time you pay for sex, you're overpaying for sex. Is someone who overpays by more than you, somehow a fool, or inferior?

Some of the best sex of my life, with one of the more attractive women I've known, cost me 2 bottles of cheap wine. In return I got to stay in a nice apartment in Richardson, TX for 3 nights, I got 5 decent home cooked meals, plus snacks, plus drinks, plus got me 8 rounds of bareback sex. On Monday morning she kissed me goodbye. I think the wine cost about $15.

When I pay for sex, what I pay is what I pay. What I get is what I get. I rarely am dissatisfied with the results.

If the only way you can enjoy the sex you're getting, at the price you're paying, is to toss insults at anyone paying more, the sex must not be that good.

Elvis 2008

10-15-20, 22:11

Keep in mind that this is a lifestyle for me. I don't come down to Medellin for 1 week and spend all my money as a 1 week millionaire. I'm down here for a much longer term. Which means I have a something that a those guys don't have: time. I can wait for a better deal. Guys coming down for a week, don't really have that luxury.

I think that's a very concrete divide. The people who try to spend less are probably spending more over a longer term and more chicas. The ones who come down for a limited time spend more on a per chica basis.Exactly, Kazeu. I had ten days and still did not get to see all the women I had wanted. Before I paid a woman a dime, I was out close to $2000 in air fare, hotels, PCR ETC, and I am lusting to see this woman I have been staring at for six months. I pay her $100 and somebody here says something to the effect that I overpaid by $50. You cannot make this stuff up.

I do not think guys could handle the truth about Angel so I am not even going to post about her. I was with her the last five days of the trip. She affirmed her status as the best. The reason I have not totally committed to her is that I want to have more than one option if things do not work out. She is not happy I am seeing other women but she has told me that she understands.

She has been adamant about not being a working girl type out for money. I have paid for trips and meals but the only two things I recall buying for her were a dog and swim suits.

Her own family has tried not to abide by this. Her sister is a FB friend and asked if I could bring a kind of toy only available in the USA. It was only $20 but Angel insisted her sister pay me. Even when I said it was okay, she got the $20 from her sister and said, "Here. ".

One of the things that has tremendous value to me is if the women are mobile. Three times I have been bought tickets for women to Mexico from Colombia, and only one of the women, Angel, got through. Anytime a young, pretty, single woman shows up in Mexico, it is assumed they are hookers.

I actually planned for Angel to get held up at Mexican customs when she travelled there, and I was going to pick her up at the airport. I planned on getting there 30 minutes after she hit customs. She made it through in five minutes and asked, "Where are you?

I actually talked to my brother about this. Was it fair praising Angel getting through Mexican customs over the other two women or was it just luck? I did not think the praise was unworthy. My brother did.

The reason I actually brought up the guest fees and whether a woman looked like a hooker at the lobby was because of what Angel did.

I checked into my last hotel for two people but did not give the hotel a name. She texted she me was coming to the hotel but she did not let me know when she arrived. She totally charmed the hotel clerk so much so that not only did he let her on the elevator and use his key card to get to my floor, he called to let me know with a smile in his voice that Miss Angel was on her way up.

That is a value for quite a few reasons. First off, I do not have to worry about guest fees. The second is that I do not have to worry about many people calling her a working girl, which is a huge negative for a woman no matter what they say, because unlike the other women she has sold everyone on us. The third thing is that if I buy her a ticket to another country, I do not need to worry about customs with her. It was not just customs and one hotel clerk. Time and again, I saw her charm strangers, and they treated her like she was their best friend.

There is also value in something about really being with someone. A lot of times in this field you are with someone but they are so distant that you feel alone. I do not care if I only paid $10 for someone. If I feel that way, I got ripped off. I felt that way with some of the women I saw but not with her.

Elvis 2008

10-15-20, 22:40

You are reaping what you sowed. Remember all your claims that AIDS never happened? I was just reminded of that recently. I'm rereading "Imajica" by Clive Barker, published in 1991, in the height of the AIDS epidemic in the US. AIDS gets a small mention in the story, yet he does an incredible job of describing the progress of the disease. Remember my post about my volunteer work, along with my wife, with the AIDS, Art, Alive group in San Diego, including a few searchable details and descriptions of a few of the afflicted artists? Do you recall?First off, JJBirdbrain, atrial fibrillation is not related to Covid. Secondly, the problem with that disease is that condition is associated with blood clots being sent to the brain, I. E. Embolic strokes. Maybe you can see a cardiologist again because memory seems to be an issue with you.

As for AIDS, a common cancer seen with it is Kaposi's sarcoma. This is rarely seen with drug abusers but commonly with gays because KS seems to be related to herpes. Why would I deny something as true that I have seen? Hmmm?

What about people who got AIDS via heterosexual sex? I don't know because THAT does not exist.

I have nothing to prove to someone who pulls that comment about tinder out of his ass and then lies about what I said about AIDS.

Your lies are irresponsible and you are totally full of shit, Tinder.

Do you recall how you declared everything I wrote was untrue? Remember how you exaggerated what I wrote, trying to make me look like a liar? Is that jogging any memories?

When you call someone else's posts nothing but lies, even when a simple search in the archives of any newspaper will confirm many of the details, you have surrendered the right to demand everyone accept every word, no matter how unbelievable or contradictory, with no means to verify any part of the story, as the gospel.

By your past actions you have placed yourself in a position where every word you write will be scrutinized and challenged.

Which brings us to my parting shot.

On more than one occasion you've flexed your "don't take no shit from women, everyone else is living in fear" attitude. Yet, you let "the queen" tell you "no" for sex, hid the fact you were in Colombia from one, lied about having Covid to another, snuck into the other room to try and keep one girl from finding out about another one.

Put on your dog collar and gimp mask. Not only are you paying 11 women, who in one post you claimed all came to see you, but in another that changed to 7 women (and it's all true), but you're letting each one of them dictate your actions.

Instead of "cough, cough. I'm sick, I can't see you" (after months of paying her), someone with testicles would have either shelled out a few more dollars to get some return on the "investment", or told her "I've given you enough for a bus ticket. Get your ass here. ".

Instead of letting a woman, who's spending the night in your bed, put you off for sex, someone not living in fear would have told her "I'm fucking tonight. If you don't want to be involved you need to find someplace else to sleep."

Instead of hiding from the one woman, any self-respecting man would have told her he was busy with other things and he would see her on the agreed day.

For all your "me Tarzan" posturing, you're a rather pathetic little boy. You're terrified one girl will find out about another. You keep sending money because that's the only way to get them to like you. You hide and simper and try to convince each of them of your devotion.

Keep at it little fellow. If nothing else, the contradictions are hilarious.

Elvis 2008

10-15-20, 23:19

Now sangnyc, guys who penny pinch about a few dollars are never bitter towards the girls. At least I can speak for myself.You get that is a contradiction right?

I understand I am offering way less so a rejection is expected. My thought process is I am the prize not you. If you want me you accept what I offer.I am shocked, just shocked that this approach does not work all the time.

Now I give it to you that sometimes a penny pincher can over do it at times and miss out. But again the attitude I am not paying what is over your worth. Here is the most humorous part. The free spenders similar to elvis, sjobs. Firmly assume that the wealth they proclaim can control these girls and will be at there beckoning. It is these guys that become bitter and call these girls putas.I do not know Steve Jobs, but from what he posted, he and I are looking for different things. The best sex I had on my trip was with Angel. I spent five days with her, and I did not pay her anything.

If there is a woman who she says that she is going to show up and does not, I am not going to be happy about it even more so if I helped her out in the past. I was annoyed and disappointed not embittered but more because she wasted my time though than my money.

When they discover the wealth meant nothing to these girls as they still rather be with there non income colombian novios LOL.Wealth means nothing to Colombian women?

I agree with MDS. The "I am the prize" line wins quote of the year but wealth meant nothing to these girls is a close second. I am glad you have it all figured out though.

Mr Enternational

10-15-20, 23:40

And you have a false equivalence going. Not being a sucker doesn't mean you're broke. In fact in this game the ones throwing around the $ are usually the ones that have little beyond a couple of brief vacations per year.I am not here trying to impress chicks that have less money than me. I am here to get a good deal on some pussy. I am fucking about 100 chicks per year. I am not of the mind to be paying each one $100. I may throw $20 or $30 at them. If you are only fucking 5 or 6 chicks per year then throwing $100 at those 5 or 6 may be feasible.

Mr Enternational

10-16-20, 00:32

If you're paying someone for sex and you spend your time finding out what other guys pay and what the girls think about them, perhaps you don't understand the concept of paying for sex. I can understand having a conversation. I can't understand how the topic ever gets to "what about guys who pay more than I pay?LOL. It does not really happen like that Jj. First of all I am surprised at the amount of guys here that advocate for Short Time. Traditionally my STs have come if I am visiting a casa during the day. If I get a chick coming to my place then it is 9 times out of 10 LT because I will typically do that at night. That is just how I was "raised" in the mongering world.

We would go to the disco in Rio and bring back chicks and they would stay all night and you would have to make them go home the next day. It was the same when I started going to Dominican Republic, Thailand, Philippines, etc. These would all be GFE sessions and it would usually cost about $30. Day ST ($10 - $15). Night LT ($30).

ST during the day I still talk to chicks but maybe it is not too indept. When a chick stays with me I am not fucking her every single minute. I have my things to do and she is doing whatever the hell too. Maybe her phone is going off and she is trying to hide it and I will say I don't care about that shit. Talk to them. May be some dude living somewhere that sends money and shit. Out of curiosity I may ask how much does he send. Then they start showing me their paypal and shit of all the guys sending money. To me it is just normal ass talk when dealing with cool ass GFE hookers.

Earlier today I was talking to a chick I fuck in Bogota. She was saying something about going out to look for a job in a restaurant. I said what about that "disco" (actually expensive ripoff casa) you took me to that you said you work at sometimes. She said they only pay 20 K. I thought she meant 20 K from what the dude pays which is like 300 K. But she said no. You get 20 K from just hanging out at the place then the real money when the fish bites. But places are empty now if they are open at all.

What you are describing is the Tijuana method of paying for sex. They pull down their pants and you are lucky if they take one pants leg off. You hump away in 2 positions max. The girl does not look you in the eye. You pay then you leave.

My sessions are usually a bit more personable than that and subjects like what somebody else is paying or what someone else is doing may come up. Some chicks will even tell me how cheap I am. But they will not be saying it in a condescending sense. They mean it moreso saying that I am smarter than the average monger in that they are willing to pay way more than what it takes. Whereas I am only going to pay what it takes. I have never had a reason to pay $100 for some pussy that I can have for $30 all things being equal.

JjBee62

10-16-20, 01:08

First off, JJBirdbrain, atrial fibrillation is not related to Covid. Secondly, the problem with that disease is that condition is associated with blood clots being sent to the brain, I. E. Embolic strokes. Maybe you can see a cardiologist again because memory seems to be an issue with you.

As for AIDS, a common cancer seen with it is Kaposi's sarcoma. This is rarely seen with drug abusers but commonly with gays because KS seems to be related to herpes. Why would I deny something as true that I have seen? Hmmm?

What about people who got AIDS via heterosexual sex? I don't know because THAT does not exist.

I have nothing to prove to someone who pulls that comment about tinder out of his ass and then lies about what I said about AIDS.

Your lies are irresponsible and you are totally full of shit, Tinder.

Do you recall how you declared everything I wrote was untrue? Remember how you exaggerated what I wrote, trying to make me look like a liar? Is that jogging any memories?

When you call someone else's posts nothing but lies, even when a simple search in the archives of any newspaper will confirm many of the details, you have surrendered the right to demand everyone accept every word, no matter how unbelievable or contradictory, with no means to verify any part of the story, as the gospel.

By your past actions you have placed yourself in a position where every word you write will be scrutinized and challenged.Still, after all of this time, not only do you not know how to properly quote posts, but you continue to ramble on about shit which is either unrelated to anything I have written, or is completely out of context.

It's not difficult at all you use the quote tags. Inside square brackets put "QUOTE" to begin the quote and the same thing preceded by a forward slash to close the quote. The result looks loke:

Elvis, you really are a fucking moron.See how easy that was? You repeat the process for each part of a post you wish to quote. If you want you can include the identification tag so the quote looks like:

I make up all this stuff because I need to support my fragile ego.It's not like you need to write PERL scripts in order to do it. It's just basic HTML tags.

I never said atrial fibrillation was related to Covid. I went for a covid test and they discovered the atrial fibrillation. However, A-Fib is a risk factor with covid.

I'm done. You go on with your fantasy and pretend all you want. Make up your stories, change them every time someone questions them and keep trying to buy respect. I'm finished wasting time dealing with a developmentally disabled child.

JjBee62

10-16-20, 01:28

LOL. It does not really happen like that Jj. First of all I am surprised at the amount of guys here that advocate for Short Time. Traditionally my STs have come if I am visiting a casa during the day. If I get a chick coming to my place then it is 9 times out of 10 LT because I will typically do that at night. That is just how I was "raised" in the mongering world.

We would go to the disco in Rio and bring back chicks and they would stay all night and you would have to make them go home the next day. It was the same when I started going to Dominican Republic, Thailand, Philippines, etc. These would all be GFE sessions and it would usually cost about $30. Day ST ($10 - $15). Night LT ($30).

ST during the day I still talk to chicks but maybe it is not too indept. When a chick stays with me I am not fucking her every single minute. I have my things to do and she is doing whatever the hell too. Maybe her phone is going off and she is trying to hide it and I will say I don't care about that shit. Talk to them. May be some dude living somewhere that sends money and shit. Out of curiosity I may ask how much does he send. Then they start showing me their paypal and shit of all the guys sending money. To me it is just normal ass talk when dealing with cool ass GFE hookers..I don't personally advocate for anything. ST for me, unless I do a casa or strip club is usually 2 or more hours. For me TLN isn't very appealing because I prefer to sleep alone. At least these days that's the case. But what other guys do, whatever floats their boat.

I spent several years reading over girl's shoulders while guys were trying to hit them up. I saw all the crap guys say. Not to mention seeing all the "private" messages guys send to the webcam models.

I'm certain, when and if the subject comes up, any one of the women will tell you those other guys are fools, lousy fucks, short dicks or whatever else. I can't imagine a woman, hooker or not, getting all doe-eyed and gushing about some other guy when she's with you. Just as most men, while they are with a woman, aren't going to start talking about how much better some other woman is.

I was involved in a 5 way one time, 3 guys, 2 girls and one of the girls was telling me she had never seen a dick as big as mine. There were 2 bigger ones in the room.

Sure a woman will say big spenders are fools, then they'll turn around and call the guys who spend less tacaño. But whether you paid $30 or $300 they're still laughing at you when they spend the money on their boyfriend or girlfriend.