Stupid shit in Medellin

[Psychman]

Capable of intelligent thought?

Nothing in this post indicates you are such a person.

If you think a stoopid animal means more to me than millions or billions of precious children on this planet.

You are beyond brain dead.

Go back to the 3rd world shithole you came from, your little pea brain cannot process western philosophy like an adult.You seem nice. You also might wish to write at least one grammatically sound sentence when you make an argument that includes the notion of "stoopid". Just a thought.

[MarquisdeSade1]

You seem nice. You also might wish to write at least one grammatically sound sentence when you make an argument that includes the notion of "stoopid". Just a thought."Grammatically correct" on a hooker board jajaaaaaaaaaaaa.

But what about priceless punctuation? Jajajaaaaaaaaaa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTufHU5eQQE&t=9s

[BlackThought]

"Grammatically correct" on a hooker board jajaaaaaaaaaaaa.

But what about priceless punctuation? Jajajaaaaaaaaaa.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTufHU5eQQE&t=9sTrying a new strategy of talking about the virus in the MDE thread for a response? Total fail lmao jajajaja.

Give it up chump, you are irrelevant. Quit spamming the thread with your nonsensical garbage k? Thanks LOL.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Even a broken clock is correct twice per day.

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/taliban-womensrights/2021/09/03/id/1035029/

[JustTK]

And speaks up against this insanity. Great stuff although 18 months too late.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLmLiF4VPns

[JustTK]

I know that some of your like to push the boundaries.

So what's the price of a donkey of a donkey en El Centro?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6xCkPT2Z1M

[Culture]

Honestly, anything with Osteoknot I automatically skip.

Been in MDE since Aug. 23rd or so. Staying in Laureles. Most things are the same as before. Went to Gustos (meh), the other spot Lleras Park (I believe) is packed. Much more girls there so it seems to have a head to head competition. Went to La Isla on a Monday and it was slow, then went to Paradise. Energy talent is lacking. It used to be so much better. I have a regular stable of girls I talk to and they are working out well so far. One of my regulars who doesn't do this normally (or at least not in the same circles for mongers) found some job as a webcam chick. She goes to a studio in Laureles where they do shows. It is just a single show but they pay her well. Met a 23 year old from Seeking and it went well. Have a lot of other dates lined up from Seeking. I will hit up some centro casas soon. I have not been to Fase Dos since I been back but will check it out soon. Really love Repeat for brunch, the whole Provenza area has really grown. They shut down the streets and made it so there are now places to sit etc. Vintrash is a cool spot for regular girls or to take a girl. I like the 3rd floor with house. Some friends are djing at a place called Mad Radio which is near the Medellin Beer company thing. Was at Envy today, a few groups of all chicks sitting around but I was with a girl. Seen mostly American tourists.


I am sure most board members get a kick out of your posts as I find most of them pretty funny, but don't you think your sharing a bit too much information? Barebacking? Excessive use of drugs? Buying motos for hookers? I am just saying maybe there should be just a tad more discretion in your posts as we don't want any unnecessary authorities to pay too much attention to this site. I am being overly cautious, but I think a modest line should be drawn on our activities as to keep the board safe, as well as the reputation of sex tourists. Yes I am fully aware sex tourists already have a horrible rep. , but I would like to think many of us are decent productive people just looking for a little fun once or twice a year. I think keeping posts to the point about sharing useful info on locations, rates, travel tips, ect. Should be more the focus of the forum. Safe and fun travels to all.

[MarquisdeSade1]

I need to add a couple of things. I have advised some people not to get shots. If you are living an isolated life and are in good health, the risks of the vaccine may outweigh the benefit. The stupidity was aimed at this individual who is in a position where she absolutely should have gotten vaccinated.

Sorry, I do not buy the good diet and good health schtick. That was the case with the previous variant. Delta is something else. It is actually milder for most people but not for some. I am seeing younger people with no comorbidities getting slammed. Before the only people who really got horribly sick with Covid were older or diabetic.

Thing is Covid causes the immune system to react and cause blood clots. That is why people can be a little sick one day and nearly dead from shortness of breath the next and who clots and why as far as I can tell is unpredictable.

Again, I am not the typical pro-vaccine guy. I think it has risks and some people should not get it. I think Fauci saying natural immunity is nothing and those previously infected getting vaxxed is his being an idiot again. I think people who travel and monger though should get vaccinated for sure, at least getting one shot. Side effects with just one shot are pretty low for most / many people.

Colombia had its own variant apparently. I am not sure how much Delta has gotten there or if the lambda version is going to hit Colombia hard. I wish that their case load stayed this low, but that just does not seem to be what this virus does.https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2021/09/02/1033396323/china-is-imposing-strict-lockdowns-to-contain-new-covid-outbreaks-but-theres-a-c

[Osteoknot]

Honestly, anything with Osteoknot I automatically skip.The Ignore List is one of the better features of this Web site.

[Osteoknot]

The Ignore List is one of the better features of this Web site.Stupid Shit is right! That says it all.

[MarquisdeSade1]

You must think the Biden admin is lower than total slime for allowing so many illegal immigrants into the USA who are covid positive.https://www.newsmax.com/finance/streettalk/george-soros-china-blackrock-investment/2021/09/08/id/1035508/

[Krxxrk]

I don't understand the mf'ers who brag about overpaying on the forums. Let's just say I make well over the upcoming Biden tax thresholds, but I didn't get there by being a dumbfk and not researching what I should pay for stuff I want. Even if you're using the logic like I should overpay to make things easy for myself, you don't get more for overpaying 100% than overpaying 10%.

[MarquisdeSade1]

I don't understand the mf'ers who brag about overpaying on the forums. Let's just say I make well over the upcoming Biden tax thresholds, but I didn't get there by being a dumbfk and not researching what I should pay for stuff I want. Even if you're using the logic like I should overpay to make things easy for myself, you don't get more for overpaying 100% than overpaying 10%.Well IMO.

I feel doods that have low self esteem and feel undesirable and / or unattractive, are overcharged.

And they try to rationalize it by saying something along the lines of "time is money" or they are on holiday.

And don't like to squabble over a few usd, when its usually the case they just have zero or near zero self esteem.

And they try to rationalize being overcharged on ISG, as "ballin" LOL.

Because you know they "got it like that" jajajajaaaaaaa.

When all it does is label them as "sooper thirsty" to the predatory putas.

[GeneHickman]

I don't understand the mf'ers who brag about overpaying on the forums. Let's just say I make well over the upcoming Biden tax thresholds, but I didn't get there by being a dumbfk and not researching what I should pay for stuff I want. Even if you're using the logic like I should overpay to make things easy for myself, you don't get more for overpaying 100% than overpaying 10%.Exactly, and not to mention that ridiculously overpaying in Latin America is often associated with "dar papaya" and making yourself a juicy target, and also in my observation with lower service levels. Not sure why so many find that so hard to conceptualize.

[BlackThought]

Thanks; fortunately, I for one am blessed with the ability of reading comprehension, which is why I specifically mentioned my other options like New life, zandaly, loutron and fb chicas. However, as I also mentioned, those are all day time / early night options and for fb you need to set up citas in advance. All I asked if there were any other night time options. I know gusto's is overpriced. I know lleras is overpriced. I'm all for fucking at casas and fucking fb chicas. I literally mentioned it in my post. As I mentioned, I'm with friends, and they're not into daytime fucking or scheduling appointments in advance. They just want to drink, get fucked up and grab a puta if they're feeling horny at the end of the night. I can still obviously fuck fb chicas and at casas when I'm not with them, but sometimes after a long night of partying, it's 3 am, I'm also horny as fuck, and have nothing set up in advance. All I asked is if there were any better late night options.I don't think some of the guys understand that young dudes like to party in foreign countries rather than in Vegas where a bottle service can cost at a minimum $10-20 k per table / cabana. These guys aren't hunting for 30 k putas in el centro.

[LoveItHere69]

I'm with friends, and they're not into daytime fucking or scheduling appointments in advance. They just want to drink, get fucked up and grab a puta if they're feeling horny at the end of the night. All I asked is if there were any better late night options.No there are no good late night options. Contact any girl from any source. Even ones you have known for years. They, like all women around the world, will be an hour or more late and that is if they show up at all. You want to wait for someone that is going to be late if they even show up all at 1:00 am?

The correct way is to hunt and get your rocks off early so you can relax. Maybe even recharge and have a second one late at night after drinking.

Let us recap. So you and your buddies came to Colombia to drink which you could do at home or even in your closet if you choose to do so? You would prefer to drink with your friends rather than have sex with a hot young 20 something your old? You stated "IF they are feeling horny at the end of the night". You fools have your priorities all messed up! I would find new friends! Sounds like kids that prioritize games or alcohol over women. I am disgusted.


Why this article so negative?It is negative because the news media wants to scare people. Look up global freezing in the 1970's. In the 1980's AIDS was going to kill half the people on the planet. All BS. Seriously, when was the last warm fuzzy news article you have read?

I glanced through it. Thought this sentence was funny. "Due to the pandemic, Colombia now has the highest poverty rate in all of Latin Americas by the World Bank. " This is BS because Venezuela has the worst poverty. I doubt Colombia's poverty rate is increasing much since most of the Venezuelans coming over the border have crossed years ago.


Any tips for Seeking or Tinder semipros?You know nothing yet your starting point for newbies is the most expensive and the most dangerous. Consider yourself drugged and robbed. No, I will not explain. Do some research.

[Kerty9]

Sugar daddy busted in USA.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/millionaire-baltimore-businessman-led-double-214200475.html

[The Tall Man]

Sugar daddy busted in USA.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/millionaire-baltimore-businessman-led-double-214200475.htmlStupid fucks like this wealthy punk and others like Jeffrey Epstein may have money but no sense when it comes to playing.

May he also rot in his prison cell and end up like Epstein.

"There were prostitutes and women who were definitely demeaned and dehumanized" well now to this 66 yo fat old creep it is time to bend over and have his prison cell mates get medieval on his ass.

The Tall Man.

[Fun Luvr]

Stupid fucks like this wealthy punk and others like Jeffrey Epstein may have money but no sense when it comes to playing.

May he also rot in his prison cell and end up like Epstein.

"There were prostitutes and women who were definitely demeaned and dehumanized" well now to this 66 yo fat old creep it is time to bend over and have his prison cell mates get medieval on his ass.

The Tall Man.That's being harsh. What was he doing different that what you post that you do, other than in a different country? Maybe you don't take videos, but him taking videos of his sex partners doesn't make him a demon. There is no mention in the article about under-age women. Most of the media and justice system in the USA will describe any woman who accepts money for sex as being "demeaned and dehumanized".

[Mr Enternational]

Stupid fucks like this wealthy punk and others like Jeffrey Epstein may have money but no sense when it comes to playing.

May he also rot in his prison cell and end up like Epstein.

"There were prostitutes and women who were definitely demeaned and dehumanized" well now to this 66 yo fat old creep it is time to bend over and have his prison cell mates get medieval on his ass.Dude what are you talking about? The article said he pleaded for sex and videos and the women pleaded for money. At anytime they could have told him no or blocked his number. He is in jail for transporting hookers; in other words, giving chicks taxi money. Fucking miscarriage of justice and once more the man gets shitted on. Many cities are changing the law where it is not illegal to be a prostitute, but still illegal if a man tries to pick one up. Make that make sense.

[Surfer500]

Let us recap. So you and your buddies came to Colombia to drink which you could do at home or even in your closet if you choose to do so? You would prefer to drink with your friends rather than have sex with a hot young 20 something your old? You stated "IF they are feeling horny at the end of the night". You fools have your priorities all messed up! I would find new friends! Sounds like kids that prioritize games or alcohol over women. I am disgusted.I, like you, am disgusted with the onslaught of newbie Colombian mongers that have shown up over the last six months. Not only based on their posts here, but also by what I have personally witnessed. Unfortunately though, things are only going to get worse until the world opens back up which who knows when.

So with that being said, were going to have to just get used to the lunacy!

[JohnnyWalker55]

Sugar daddy busted in USA.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/millionaire-baltimore-businessman-led-double-214200475.htmlSo his crime was. Filming putas without their consent while fucking them. AFTER paying them and their pimp? Are you fucking kidding me?

And now they extort him for 100 k plus for marriage counseling etc.

He's probably a creep yea, but just seems like another middle aged guy with big bucks having an extramarital affair, and now theyre making an example of him.

The usa is such a fucking joke when it comes to morality, sex and drugs, the hypocritcial puritanical fucks.

Same shit happened with the patriots owner robert kraft, he was portrayed as a demon for going to a massage parlor.

All the feminists talk about "demeaning" women, when most of the working girls in the states I know prefer to fuck because they make money to fuel their drug addiction or don't want to work for $10 HR at a retail job. Fucking embarrassing man.

[JohnnyWalker55]

https://www.france24.com/es/minuto-a-minuto/20210921-uso-de-mascarillas-al-aire-libre-dejar%C3%A1-de-ser-obligatorio-en-argentina

Wow, after half the world has stadiums packed with 50 k+ people, now some backwards countries are finally "letting" their citizens breathe fresh air outside.

Just complete idiocy here in Colombia with the tapaboca obsession, people have no individuality, just listen to whatever "mandate" there is.

completely anti science, as per the CDC outside transmission is null..

Let's hope Colombia is next with the repeal of the mandate as I get nauseous everytime I see a 20 yo cutie in dentist outfit or college uniform with a mask outside. Let me see your face god dammit.

[The Tall Man]

That's being harsh. What was he doing different that what you post that you do, other than in a different country? Maybe you don't take videos, but him taking videos of his sex partners doesn't make him a demon. There is no mention in the article about under-age women. Most of the media and justice system in the USA will describe any woman who accepts money for sex as being "demeaned and dehumanized".So exactly what about this statement is ok with you "Behind closed doors, however, the well-known Baltimore businessman lorded his wealth and power over young, drug-addicted women, paying them for sex, filming them despite their protests, and, as prosecutors contended, leaving them "dehumanized."

Yes I stand by my statement and may he join Epstein and rot in hell.

The Tall Man.

[MarquisdeSade1]

So exactly what about this statement is ok with you "Behind closed doors, however, the well-known Baltimore businessman lorded his wealth and power over young, drug-addicted women, paying them for sex, filming them despite their protests, and, as prosecutors contended, leaving them "dehumanized."

Yes I stand by my statement and may he join Epstein and rot in hell.

The Tall Man.For starters 99% of prosecutors (aka cops with JDs) are 1000% full of shit and I'm guessing there is some feminist in the office of this one.

"businessman lorded his wealth and power over young, drug-addicted women, paying them for sex, filming them despite their protests, and, as prosecutors contended, leaving them "dehumanized."

Please tell me how this is any different than what most mongers can be characterized by some feminist prosecutor as doing 24/7 in Col and all the other locales on this site?

Just a pro tip, just because a prosecutor contends something, doesn't mean there is an ounce of truth to said contention!

This is one bizarre post TTM.

[Fun Luvr]

So exactly what about this statement is ok with you "Behind closed doors, however, the well-known Baltimore businessman lorded his wealth and power over young, drug-addicted women, paying them for sex, filming them despite their protests, and, as prosecutors contended, leaving them "dehumanized."

Yes I stand by my statement and may he join Epstein and rot in hell.

The Tall Man.Everything in that statement is okay with me except "filming them despite their protests". Again, what in that statement is any different than what you have posted that you have done in Medellin?

[Jmioffe]

Sugar daddy busted in USA.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/millionaire-baltimore-businessman-led-double-214200475.htmlThe Daily Mail version of this story is better!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10037755/Millionaire-Baltimore-financier-gets-18-months-sex-trafficking-sentence.html

A picture is worth 1000 words.

[Mr Enternational]

The Daily Mail version of this story is better!

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10037755/Millionaire-Baltimore-financier-gets-18-months-sex-trafficking-sentence.html"The disgraced financier would force the women to perform sex acts on-camera and send him degrading video of them relieving themselves. " Again how does he force them if he is not even in their presence?

"Financier was handed down the sentence Monday in federal court after owning up to paying a woman $5,000 to travel to have sex with him. " Did they have to give him all the money back?

[Combo]

They found sex toys in his desk! The horror! He should have gotten the death penalty.

He "preyed on" lower class women were were often addicted to drugs. No shit, having sex with him was a lot easier than working 40 hours a week at a normal job which they probably couldn't do if they're drugged out all the time.

In the "advanced countries" like the USA, it seems the "johns" are more often the victim than the women they pay.

[LoveItHere69]

So exactly what about this statement is ok with you "Behind closed doors, however, the well-known Baltimore businessman lorded his wealth and power over young, drug-addicted women, paying them for sex, filming them despite their protests, and, as prosecutors contended, leaving them "dehumanized."

Yes I stand by my statement and may he john Epstein and rot in hell.

The Tall Man."Lord" meaning someone having power, authority, or influence.

You lord your wealth over poor women.

You lord your education over women with little education.

You lord your age over women that are a third of your age.

You also lord your size over these little women.

If a news journalist from most western countries chose to do a story on any of us on this site we would all be considered John Epsteins, monsters, etc.

The news sensationalize everything. Example: In the Philippines I watched the police "rescue" all the girls that worked in a go-go bar. Rescue is the word the news always uses. If I were being rescued I would run to my rescuer but the girls tried to run away from the police. The girls were loaded into the bus. Some of the smart girls opened the back door of the bus and escaped their rescuers. About 10 girls got away. The next day after the girls were released from the police station they found their way back to the bar and were dancing the next day.

How about when a female teacher has sex with a male student. Sorry I am not buying that he was a "victim" when he went to her house on weekends for 7 months to meet with her.

Another example in journalist BS wording is the stock market "plummeted" today. The reality is 2%. My mind is thinking 10% minimum to use the word "plummeted".

I can not fathom how you can believe any media in the world now a days.

As for drugs. It seems like at least 40% of the people I know are either druggies, alcoholics, etc. So that is hardly meaningful.

[Gbaby32]

I don't think some of the guys understand that young dudes like to party in foreign countries rather than in Vegas where a bottle service can cost at a minimum $10-20 k per table / cabana. These guys aren't hunting for 30 k putas in el centro.Agreed many of the younger guys make it a boys trip and party like rock stars bottles in the club all that. There's a huge difference with clubbing in the US and spending thousands for what you can pay in Colombia.

[JjBee62]

They found sex toys in his desk! The horror! He should have gotten the death penalty.

He "preyed on" lower class women were were often addicted to drugs. No shit, having sex with him was a lot easier than working 40 hours a week at a normal job which they probably couldn't do if they're drugged out all the time.

In the "advanced countries" like the USA, it seems the "johns" are more often the victim than the women they pay.I'm wondering how many of you guys actually know this man? It seems like more than one of you know much more about him than what is in the news.

I haven't a clue about him. I don't know if he was just paying women for sex, or if he was abusing them. I'm guessing that nobody else here knows either.

Most of us are biased, in many different ways. We're biased towards our professions, our hobbies, our alma mater, and much more. Quite often we end up with opinions which are completely off base, because we're looking at things from our biased perspective.

There are plenty of guys who are just paying for sex, nothing devious, just a mutually beneficial transaction. However, there are also some who get their kicks in other ways and the things they do very few of us would be willing to publicly support. In some cases, if your best friend told you about it, you would be the first to run to the police.

[MarquisdeSade1]

They found sex toys in his desk! The horror! He should have gotten the death penalty.

He "preyed on" lower class women were were often addicted to drugs. No shit, having sex with him was a lot easier than working 40 hours a week at a normal job which they probably couldn't do if they're drugged out all the time.

In the "advanced countries" like the USA, it seems the "johns" are more often the victim than the women they pay.Imagine the horror, he had a couch that pulled out as a bed? As do most politicians on Capitol Hill jajaja.

He paid them to shoot video of themselves taking a piss or shit? And they did it from who knows how many miles away? What a monster!

I thought the old axiom was that married guys go to putas to get things their wives won't do for them? Now that's "not allowed".

He preyed on poor women? WTF aren't 99.999% of putas in the world poor? Or I'm guessing most wouldn't be putas.

Just remember my name jajaja Marquis De Sade = aka the Sadist.

I believe most mongers if not all as a group are providing work for the unemployable, a social safety net for those that need it the most in many countries.

That don't have social programs for unwed mothers et al.

Ala food assistance housing medicaid etc.

These prosecutors can eat shit and die, I didn't watch the trials but I'm pretty sure they railroaded Harvey Weinstein Bill Cosby and are Kelly and this sucker.

Bill was freed and the other 2 probably will be also, this METOO shit is a scam.

They will lock them up and they will need to pray their appeals will release them like Bill.

These trials are meant to scare other men, don't monger in the USA! They are adopting the Swedish model, on steroids.

And they will go after the rich 1st, because if all his wealth couldn't beat BS charges and keep him out of prison, no one else stands a chance to challenge their bullshit.

Look at Harvey, if they can railroad someone as rich and powerful as him.

You better not think about using SA in the USA they will destroy your life, family and career.

[MarquisdeSade1]

"The disgraced financier would force the women to perform sex acts on-camera and send him degrading video of them relieving themselves. " Again how does he force them if he is not even in their presence?

"Financier was handed down the sentence Monday in federal court after owning up to paying a woman $5,000 to travel to have sex with him. " Did they have to give him all the money back?He forced by sending them $500 via Zelle, jajajajaaaaaaa.

They gladly filled the toilet shitting themselves in non stop laughter whilst sucking another dood and the crack pipe OMG the degradation. Jajajajajajajajajaaaaaaa.

If only Rick James was still with us, oh no they would put him in Fed max security at Florence for having sex and paying for it also.

The story has lots of faux virtue signaling popping up, HEY, calling all ISG feminist mongers come out come out where ever you are!

[JustTK]

If a news journalist from most western countries chose to do a story on any of us on this site we would all be considered John Epsteins, monsters, etc.
The news sensationalize everything.
I can not fathom how you can believe any media in the world now a days.
Fair comments. I find it interesting how sex with minors has been demonized to such an extent that it is almost taboo to even discuss it. No doubt I will get fllack for even posting thiis here. But I can think of no other activity that generates such blind hatred. Many even wish death on the perpetrator.

The crazy thing is that it is our culture that has caused this. Sex with minors was the norm before. Even Mohamed had a 9 year old wife. What's more, many countries have much lower ages of consent, so what is illegal for one, is not illegal for another. I understand that it can ((can) traumatise the victiim, but not always. And it is our modern cultural attitude that causes this trauma anyway. Imagine a sociiety where sex is the norm from say 12 years old. How mcuh trauma would a 13 year old then suffer if she has sex with a 30 year old?

I don't see why sex as an activity is held in such serious regard by society. Education, protection. These can resolve nearly all issues.

And before anyone asks, no I am not into underage girls. Whatever underage means. Underage to me means a girl that is immature in the head and in the bed. They are not my type at all.

[JustTK]

Most of us are biased, in many different ways. We're biased towards our professions, our hobbies, our alma mater, and much more. Quite often we end up with opinions which are completely off base, because we're looking at things from our biased perspective.
Very true about bias. And unfortunately not many of us recognise it. We would all be better people if we could.

"Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in a while, or the light won't come in. " - Isaac Asimov.

[JoeRoc]

When my friend asked tony about that price list of course he respond with that's 5 year ago sign! Ha ha ha he's a crook, bottom line, not sure why or how he lasted!My dumbass saw him on youtube and judged his character off of that.

[Elvis 2008]

I'm wondering how many of you guys actually know this man? It seems like more than one of you know much more about him than what is in the news.

I haven't a clue about him. I don't know if he was just paying women for sex, or if he was abusing them. I'm guessing that nobody else here knows either.You are falling into the trap of whether he is a good guy or not. That is not relevant. He was charged under the Mann Act. Prostitution is allowed under federal law. That is why it is legal in Nevada. You want to fuck a ho in Maryland, under federal law, you are fine. Fuck a Virginia ho and you are fine. Take a Virginia ho to Maryland, and the feds got you on trafficking, and they are going to show no mercy in the current climate. Trafficking has the potential to get you a lifetime sentence so you are going to plead out.

I think he was prosecuted under state law for prostitution. The state probably found evidence he took one of his hos, sugar babies out of state and I think paid her $5000. It was no contest. As for the women vouching for the man, shit, the feds got that covered. See the link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mann_Act.

"The penalties would be applied to men whether or not the woman involved consented and, if she had consented, the woman could be considered an accessory to the offense."

And he did it. He admitted transferring one of his WGs over state lines.

Based on experience and talking to lawyers, this guy probably got fleeced to a few million by defense attorneys. The notion that defense attorneys are not in cahoots with prosecutors is a hoot. When you get this much money to defense attorneys, they know to share the wealth. Whether the prosecutor got a sweet gig with the defense attorneys IMO is just one of many perks. Of the hundreds of thousands the guy was forced to pay to marriage counseling and a psychiatrist. My guess is the judge's wife just so happens to be a marriage counselor and the psychiatrist is banging him on the side.

At the federal level, I can see the judge having a brother in law running a prison with a low census and the judge wanting to help him out.

I don't know any of that, but from what I have seen, I expect that type of setup to happen.

What amazes me is guys who are mongers do not get the same thing as this guy. The difference now is the feds are enforcing the law. Tall man takes a chick from Medellin to Cartagena and goes on a moral rampage against this guy. Prosecutors and the judge can say whatever they want. They have immunity, and they are not going to say they put a good gut in jail.

As for the victims, it wouldn't surprise me that there were two of these lawyers in a strip club laughing at what they did. "Can you believe we got the press to print an article where we made cocaine addicted hos, strippers and sugar babies into victims?" The other would respond, "Yeah, maybe they can get their PHDs now" and had a laugh. That is what I expect from the American Injustice system.

The thing that gets me is how mongers are so blind to what is going on. Sure, they may be banging women and maybe bring one with them along with them on a trip, but LE would never come after them. Nah, LE likes them. Hell, if you asked the average American monger if he is law abiding, he would say yes. I do not know where this delusion comes from but it is there.

[JjBee62]

This place is a real overrated shithole. Beaches are ugly and every one and their cousin are out to scam you. The pros are not that great either IMO. Granted I only went put one night so far to clock tower area. I walked around drinking beer looking for a girl to turn me on enough while I got a buzz. Fending off scammers left and right.

One girl aggressively hugged me and I oushed her off as I knew she wanted in my pockets. This same chick brought an entire mariachi band with her plus 2 friends a few hours later in the night and tried to again grab me while this band if street performers played and offered me coke. I literally ran away LOL. I ended up in some after hours club called space. The best looking girl. There approached me and sat down wanted 300 k pesos I told her 200 and its a deal. We left got home she proceeded to put a condom on me and gave the most mechanical sex possible. I pulled her off and said no condom. She wanted 50 usd more. I said fine because you def aren't making me hard enough to fuck you with a condom.

The sex was very boring mechanical. She had a private driver come pick her up and said she wanted to get my nu ber and go to the beach with me. I told her that she fucks like a robot and I am not interested. She seemed upset and left.

The next day a non pro I had been chatting with on bumble dating app came over. She didn't look as good as the pro but the sex was way better and more intimate. ID give her a 6 or 7 best looks wise though. Seemed like a nice caring girl though..And this is why this forum is here, so you can find out if a city is going to be a good fit for you before you commit to spending a month there.

[Kafka]

People in Cartagena can smell an attitude like yours a mile away, Good luck because you're going to need it.


This place is a real overrated shithole. Beaches are ugly and every one and their cousin are out to scam you. The pros are not that great either IMO. Granted I only went put one night so far to clock tower area. I walked around drinking beer looking for a girl to turn me on enough while I got a buzz. Fending off scammers left and right.

One girl aggressively hugged me and I oushed her off as I knew she wanted in my pockets. This same chick brought an entire mariachi band with her plus 2 friends a few hours later in the night and tried to again grab me while this band if street performers played and offered me coke. I literally ran away LOL. I ended up in some after hours club called space. The best looking girl. There approached me and sat down wanted 300 k pesos I told her 200 and its a deal. We left got home she proceeded to put a condom on me and gave the most mechanical sex possible. I pulled her off and said no condom. She wanted 50 usd more. I said fine because you def aren't making me hard enough to fuck you with a condom.

The sex was very boring mechanical. She had a private driver come pick her up and said she wanted to get my nu ber and go to the beach with me. I told her that she fucks like a robot and I am not interested. She seemed upset and left.

The next day a non pro I had been chatting with on bumble dating app came over. She didn't look as good as the pro but the sex was way better and more intimate. ID give her a 6 or 7 best looks wise though. Seemed like a nice caring girl though.

We went to the beach where I feel victim to the free oyster scam at boca grande. They come and tell you free samples then demand money later. Long story short I woke up with severe food poisoning next day. Projectile vomiting and just extremely sick. 99 out of 100 times I would never accept raw shellfish from a street vendor. I think being with that girl dropped my guard down as I was in a really good euphoric mood and on hydrocone pain killers at that moment..

[GeneHickman]

This place is a real overrated shithole. Beaches are ugly and every one and their cousin are out to scam you. The pros are not that great either IMO. Granted I only went put one night so far to clock tower area. I walked around drinking beer looking for a girl to turn me on enough while I got a buzz. Fending off scammers left and right.






Also. My first impression of Columbians are that they are very dishonest people in general who will cheat you whenever possible. They always seem low key pissed off as well.

I was in the DR a few months ago and liked it much better. Never did the pro scene there though so can't comment on that.

Boca grande beach is uglier than any beach in China even that I ever ever visited. Filthy water as well. Will be here for 1 month unfortunately. I have little desire to even leave my room here tbh. And people say this one of the most beautiful cities in Columbia. Yikessss.You should definitely hurry up and leave. Why waste a month in such a horrible place.

[RacShack]

You should definitely hurry up and leave. Why waste a month in such a horrible place.Sounds like we have another troll on are Hands fellows!

[HighOnTravel]

People in Cartagena can smell an attitude like yours a mile away, Good luck because you're going to need it.Blah blah blah here come the apologists. Could gaf less what the scammy ass locals think. Why don't you get on your knees and suck them off while you are at it? I am just stating my honest objectional first impressions. This city is hyped up big time online and on various travel websites.

The jewel of the Caribbean. That's hysterical actually. Are the beaches not hideous? Are there not hundreds of scammers everywhere you go trying to get your money? Are the pros not over priced and mediocre at best?

Am just calling a spade a spade. I came here wanting to love it. As soon as the plane circled over the city though while landing I could tell it was an ugly shithole. That being said, it's not all terrible. I have a great sky rise balcony over Boca Grande. Well beautiful until you look down at the beach at least and murky waters haha. I went to the walled city a few times. Its not nearly enough to make up for the filthy dark sludge looking water that surrounds the coast nor the gray sand that looks like one giant construction site. I have to imagine that you must have to have a huge Columbian fetish to like this place a lot. Both Miami and the DR are X1000 nicer places IMO.

So that leaves the only redeeming factor to be the pro scene which is very mediocre IMO. I will say this though. Bumble dating app is yielding some great results with non pros. Takes a lot of chatting and pipelining though. The pros seem pretty lame in general here. Not interested. I'm writing these reports for people who have never come and are reading into the hype like I did a few weeks ago. Everything I'm writing is non biased and just calling it like I see it.

[HighOnTravel]

Regarding 1 and 2. Those I made the long term offer to were told there would be a trial period. It was on the third day after this was concluded, Angela started to play up. I did not get rid of her immediately and gave her the benefit of the doubt about her "misunderstanding" the agreement, though if I am honest, I know in my own my mind she was really trying her luck. But after several other complaints from her in the space of a couple of hours, I told her to go. "Diahann Carroll" was also made the offer, but it was rescinded when I found that she had stolen 200 k, and worse still, brought coke into the apartment. Elena also accepted the offer of a trial period, but I got a vibe from her she was also going to misbehave, so I made it possible for her to steal 50 k and was proved right. Considering what my involvement with the duo that were pimping out cost me, I thought that was a bargain.

3. That's not what I have seen from the Thai TP.

5. It was not an orgy with more than one girl. The hag slept in the spare room. And on the occasion when they scammed me, both stayed in the spare room.Not sure why everyone us attacking you. You made some really foolish errors for sure but your posts are the most honest and accurate ones I have read on this entire subform about the Cartagena pro scene. Its downright terrible IMO. The pros are no bueno here. These guys just have some extreme fetish for Columbian women or something. The only other place well known for it that is worst for pros is las Vegas IMO. The girls just look dead in their eyes to me. All of them. Their looks are nothing to write home about either. The non pro Columbians can be drop dead gorgeous though I've noticed.

[JohnnyWalker55]

What amazes me is guys who are mongers do not get the same thing as this guy. The difference now is the feds are enforcing the law. Tall man takes a chick from Medellin to Cartagena and goes on a moral rampage against this guy. Prosecutors and the judge can say whatever they want. They have immunity, and they are not going to say they put a good gut in jail.

As for the victims, it wouldn't surprise me that there were two of these lawyers in a strip club laughing at what they did. "Can you believe we got the press to print an article where we made cocaine addicted hos, strippers and sugar babies into victims?" The other would respond, "Yeah, maybe they can get their PHDs now" and had a laugh. That is what I expect from the American Injustice system.

The thing that gets me is how mongers are so blind to what is going on. Sure, they may be banging women and maybe bring one with them along with them on a trip, but LE would never come after them. Nah, LE likes them. Hell, if you asked the average American monger if he is law abiding, he would say yes. I do not know where this delusion comes from but it is there.

The fact they used "federal agents" for this shows how much of a joke the states have become. They made an example of him, and you bet the prosecution and defense was laughing all the way to the bank. rules for civilians, but not celebrities, politicians, or those with connections.

Something about a savior complex some people have here, nobody bats an eye when mongers post pictures of putas on here, god forbid a millionaire in baltimore (failed city) has some fetish and wants to video a drug addicted stripper with a dildo because his "trophy" wife won't fuck him anymore. meanwhile, a scumbag like george floyd is portrayed as hero by the media and funneled into a major political movement, while the cum rags known as the media vilify a guy banging some chicks onthe side and throw the book at him, essentially ruining his life. fair.

[JjBee62]

The fact they used "federal agents" for this shows how much of a joke the states have become. They made an example of him, and you bet the prosecution and defense was laughing all the way to the bank. rules for civilians, but not celebrities, politicians, or those with connections.

Something about a savior complex some people have here, nobody bats an eye when mongers post pictures of putas on here, god forbid a millionaire in baltimore (failed city) has some fetish and wants to video a drug addicted stripper with a dildo because his "trophy" wife won't fuck him anymore. meanwhile, a scumbag like george floyd is portrayed as hero by the media and funneled into a major political movement, while the cum rags known as the media vilify a guy banging some chicks onthe side and throw the book at him, essentially ruining his life. fair.Again. Do you actually know the guy the story is about? Because it appears that nobody commenting on this story knows anything about it. They either accept the story at face value, or they reject everything in the story, simply because it is in the story. To top it off you've got people speculating on the actions of people who aren't even mentioned in the story.

Let's start with some basics. You're going to have a difficult time finding hookers in the US who are addicted to, or even using cocaine. They're addicted to Heroin, Fentanyl, methamphetamines or opioid pain killers. There's no physical compulsion to addict you to cocaine. If you can't get any more, you just go to sleep, because you've been awake for however long the cocaine lasts. With the various opioids, withdrawals can be fatal. That's why people who wouldn't normally steal, or sell their ass will end up doing almost anything to get more of their drug.

That's a problem that goes both ways. If you're a john, you run a lot of risks when dealing with addicts. There's the risk of getting poked with a dirty needle, along with many health risks, since HIV and Hepatitis are both common with IV drug addicts. Many of them live in filth and squalor, who knows what types of parasites have made a nest in their bed. Then there's the simple risk that their addict boyfriend / pimp will rob or kill you.

For the addicted hookers, there are plenty of guys happy to exploit the addiction, because the girls are disposable. They're probably going to end up dead or in prison soon, so the bad guys figure they can do whatever they want up to and including giving them an overdose.

That's the reality of the addicted prostitution game in the US. Most of the customers are just guys who can't afford the price of a hooker who isn't addicted to something. Some of the customers specifically seek out the addicts, because that excites them. Then there are the few who are sadists or psychos who are looking for easy victims.

So which was the guy who got arrested? Obviously he wasn't dealing with addicts because he couldn't afford better. I don't know whether he's just a guy with a weird fetish, or whether he's a guy who gets his kicks from hurting others and destroying lives. And it appears that nobody else on this conversation knows either. Choosing a side at this point seems premature.

After all, 2 months from now, if it comes out that the guy was guilty of some pretty horrible shit, how many of the guys who are standing in his corner are going to step up and admit they were wrong (or admit that they're into the same sick things)?

Tall Man might have went overboard with his crucifixion post, but he did at least clarify the types of behavior he was condemning.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Blah blah blah here come the apologists. Could gaf less what the scammy ass locals think. Why don't you get on your knees and suck them off while you are at it? I am just stating my honest objectional first impressions. This city is hyped up big time online and on various travel websites.

The jewel of the Caribbean. That's hysterical actually. Are the beaches not hideous? Are there not hundreds of scammers everywhere you go trying to get your money? Are the pros not over priced and mediocre at best?

Am just calling a spade a spade. I came here wanting to love it. As soon as the plane circled over the city though while landing I could tell it was an ugly shithole. That being said, it's not all terrible. I have a great sky rise balcony over Boca Grande. Well beautiful until you look down at the beach at least and murky waters haha. I went to the walled city a few times. Its not nearly enough to make up for the filthy dark sludge looking water that surrounds the coast nor the gray sand that looks like one giant construction site. I have to imagine that you must have to have a huge Columbian fetish to like this place a lot. Both Miami and the DR are X1000 nicer places IMO.The internet is full of lies!

I've been burned buying into the hype, but we are culpable, we wanted to believe it, so we did.

You have 4 posts, learn to filter out the BS many guys are like little boys that go crazy the 1st time they encounter a vagina (and have never had free sex in their entire lives).

Some of the most active threads are the most misleading and many of the most prolific posters are cheerleaders (certainly not all).

Do your due diligence and read many pages and filter out the children and you'll be OK, there is a learning curve here.

Some websites have members rate other members to gauge their credibility and accuracy, that would be awesome here.

I've been burned badly, but you must own some blame, just don't let it happen again.

[Mr Enternational]

You're going to have a difficult time finding hookers in the US who are addicted to, or even using cocaine. They're addicted to Heroin, Fentanyl, methamphetamines or opioid pain killers. There's no physical compulsion to addict you to cocaine. If you can't get any more, you just go to sleep, .Spoken just like a man that has never heard NWA's smash hit, Dopeman:
"Do anything for a hit or two.
Give tha b!tch a rock, she'll fuck the whole damn crew.
It might be your wife and it might make you sick.
Come home and see her mouth on the dopeman's dick".

Or seen the blockbuster film New Jack City.

Gee Money: "but what I do know, is that they be going crazy over this, man! I'm tellin' you! And the bitches? Oh, Lord! The bitches! Yo! They do anything for this, man! Yo, I had my jimmy waxed every day last week, ya understand?! Several times a day!

Or run into a geek monster on the inner-city USA streets in the 80's and 90's.

Free Baltimore Morebucks!

[MarquisdeSade1]

Spoken just like a man that has never heard NWA's smash hit, Dopeman:
"Do anything for a hit or two.
Give tha b!tch a rock, she'll fuck the whole damn crew.
It might be your wife and it might make you sick.
Come home and see her mouth on the dopeman's dick".

Or seen the blockbuster film New Jack City.

Gee Money: "but what I do know, is that they be going crazy over this, man! I'm tellin' you! And the bitches? Oh, Lord! The bitches! Yo! They do anything for this, man! Yo, I had my jimmy waxed every day last week, ya understand?! Several times a day!

Or run into a geek monster on the inner-city USA streets in the 80's and 90's.

Free Baltimore Morebucks!Just look at all the Asian scat porn online jajajaaaaaa.

Meth is very popular in BKK and the PI, or are they doing it to buy rice? Jajajajaaaaaaaa.

Maybe 10 yrs ago there was a story in the news from Gary Ind (really an exburb of Chicago).

A dood was driving around in a van picking up street putas and paying them with "rocks" to blow his dog whilst he filmed it jajajaaaaaaaaaa.

Mother Teresa would be so proud jajajaaaaaaaaa.

Just google Zoo porn LOL.

[JjBee62]

Spoken just like a man that has never heard NWA's smash hit, Dopeman:
"Do anything for a hit or two.
Give tha b!tch a rock, she'll fuck the whole damn crew.
It might be your wife and it might make you sick.
Come home and see her mouth on the dopeman's dick".

Or seen the blockbuster film New Jack City.

Gee Money: "but what I do know, is that they be going crazy over this, man! I'm tellin' you! And the bitches? Oh, Lord! The bitches! Yo! They do anything for this, man! Yo, I had my jimmy waxed every day last week, ya understand?! Several times a day!

Or run into a geek monster on the inner-city USA streets in the 80's and 90's.

Free Baltimore Morebucks!You're confusing crack with cocaine. Yes, crack is a form of cocaine, but it's waned in popularity, mainly because crystal meth is more readily available. Since we're not still living in 1993 and most mongers aren't getting their girls off the inner city streets, crack isn't nearly as common as what I already mentioned.

Or to simplify it for you, if you're in Colombia and have just bought some cocaine, which is more likely, that you've got a rock to smoke, or you've got some coke to snort. Take all the time you need.

If someone is talking about girls hooked on drugs and the only thing they mention is "cocaine" they're completely out of touch with the reality of the current situation.

I guess I screwed up. I didn't get my knowledge of drugs from a Walkman. I just went out and did them and then learned the hard way.

[Elvis 2008]

Again. Do you actually know the guy the story is about? Because it appears that nobody commenting on this story knows anything about it. They either accept the story at face value, or they reject everything in the story, simply because it is in the story.Yes, the story is about a prosecutor who used a law that was put into place to stop the trafficking of women in 1910. Do you know the first thing defenders do when they see a witness list? They look up the criminal records of those who are on the witness list and they deduce that those are the people who will testify against the accused.

As I quoted, the woman / sugar baby who took $5000 to go across state lines has to testify against him or be charged with an accessory. If you think the women in this case, the strippers, sugar babies, cocaine users, and hos were prosecuted, I have a bridge to sell you. The government has been clear that women will not be prosecuted for sex related crimes. They are going after men. It is implicit that they go free if the government gets the testimony from them that they want.

The other thing you can be sure of is that none of these prosecutors will bring a case like this before a jury. The feds have a 98% conviction rate because they can financially bleed most people. If you can show me a case the feds have brought to a jury based on the Mann act, I would love to see it. They are always going to get a plea deal in a case like this.

Yeah, this guy gave a woman $5000 for a weekend getaway out of his state. Good luck trying to get a jury to believe he is a monster, and she is a victim.

He is not charged with shooting video, giving women cocaine, banging women in strip club, or being a general douchebag. He was charged with trafficking. All that other stuff was hearsay to justify the BS conviction. He plead to the deal to save the money he had remaining, and he was smart to do so.

The government announced they were coming after us. They have been doing massive stings and prosecuting men under the guise that seeing hos is the same as supporting trafficking. Four years ago when I saw what they were doing, I quit hobbying in the USA after that, and I recommend everyone here do likewise.

That is how the American Injustice system works.

[GeneHickman]

Again. Do you actually know the guy the story is about? Because it appears that nobody commenting on this story knows anything about it. They either accept the story at face value, or they reject everything in the story, simply because it is in the story. To top it off you've got people speculating on the actions of people who aren't even mentioned in the story.

Tall Man might have went overboard with his crucifixion post, but he did at least clarify the types of behavior he was condemning.Whilst you are technically right about the fact that we know only a few details. The reality is that being a john in the US is far more risky from a law enforcement perspective than in many other places. For one the legality, and the social acceptance or lack of it are just different. We see a lot of local news about law enforcement raids at massage parlors, to prominent men's reputations ruined etc. All to make examples of this actiivty. We outlaw it, we ostracize it, we prosecute it and we condemn those that engage in it. These rules are written to crush men and their desires. They are feminist by design. Heck there are folks that travel abroad not at all for cost reasons but because legally they feel on better grounds.

So whilst you can say we don't know and you'd technically be right, I think there is a long track record for US law enforcement in this area. I for one won't engage in any of this stateside. So perhaps the reason people say this is ridiculous is most of these prosecutions are. Think of the Robert kraft one for example. Seriously? Ridiculous.
And the whole trafficking thing across state lines is ridiculous. Speaking of which I think this applys to any borders, so if you took a Colombiana to Mexico for P4P for example, from my read you can be prosecuted under the Mann act upon return and your credit card bills etc can be used as evidence.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Whilst you are technically right about the fact that we know only a few details. The reality is that being a john in the US is far more risky from a law enforcement perspective than in many other places. For one the legality, and the social acceptance or lack of it are just different. We see a lot of local news about law enforcement raids at massage parlors, to prominent men's reputations ruined etc. All to make examples of this actiivty. We outlaw it, we ostracize it, we prosecute it and we condemn those that engage in it. These rules are written to crush men and their desires. They are feminist by design. Heck there are folks that travel abroad not at all for cost reasons but because legally they feel on better grounds.

So whilst you can say we don't know and you'd technically be right, I think there is a long track record for US law enforcement in this area. I for one won't engage in any of this stateside. So perhaps the reason people say this is ridiculous is most of these prosecutions are. Think of the Robert kraft one for example. Seriously? Ridiculous.
And the whole trafficking thing across state lines is ridiculous. Speaking of which I think this applys to any borders, so if you took a Colombiana to Mexico for P4P for example, from my read you can be prosecuted under the Mann act upon return and your credit card bills etc can be used as evidence.Along with your FB IMs whatsapp messages emails SA acct etc etc.

Got to love these dumb ass websites that ask you to upload a copy of your passport to join LMFAO.

I told Col Cupid they were out of their fucking minds and they issued me a refund LMAO.

[Paulie97]

So whilst you can say we don't know and you'd technically be right, I think there is a long track record for US law enforcement in this area. I for one won't engage in any of this stateside.Well let's hope you wouldn't engage in filming women, secret camera having sex no matter what country you are in. Slimy behavior calls for retribution, whether by law or social sanctions. Same can be said for men cheating on their spouses behind their backs. There's two strikes on that guy.

P.S. It's worth noting that, though there's no legal interventions addressed beyond pimping, prostitution is not condoned in Latin America. It's typically only the lower stratas that are involved in it.

[Mr Enternational]

And the whole trafficking thing across state lines is ridiculous. Speaking of which I think this applys to any borders, so if you took a Colombiana to Mexico for P4P for example, from my read you can be prosecuted under the Mann act upon return and your credit card bills etc can be used as evidence.All because over 100 years ago they wanted to stop Black boxing champ Jack Johnson from fucking White women. Why you have to be careful what you vote for; there are a lot of unintended circumstances.

[Mr Enternational]

You're confusing crack with cocaine. Yes, crack is a form of cocaine, but it's waned in popularity, mainly because crystal meth is more readily available. Since we're not still living in 1993 and most mongers aren't getting their girls off the inner city streets, crack isn't nearly as common as what I already mentioned.

Or to simplify it for you, if you're in Colombia and have just bought some cocaine, which is more likely, that you've got a rock to smoke, or you've got some coke to snort. Take all the time you need.

If someone is talking about girls hooked on drugs and the only thing they mention is "cocaine" they're completely out of touch with the reality of the current situation.

I guess I screwed up. I didn't get my knowledge of drugs from a Walkman. I just went out and did them and then learned the hard way.Say huh? Mfs were addicted to smoking freebase cocaine before the rock (cocaine mixed with baking soda and water and boiled to remove impurities) came along. All the rock did was make it a more convenient way to smoke. It is not a different drug. There are plenty of people smoking cocaine in downtown Medellin. If you do not see the makeshift aluminum foil pipes attached to some lips, then you definitely see them all over the ground. I did not get my knowledge from a Walkman either. I got it from being in the street. The reason I don't shake in my boots being in downtown Medellin or Bogota after dark like most people do; for me it is second nature.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Say huh? Mfs were addicted to smoking freebase cocaine before the rock (cocaine mixed with baking soda and water and boiled to remove impurities) came along. All the rock did was make it a more convenient way to smoke. It is not a different drug. There are plenty of people smoking cocaine in downtown Medellin. If you do not see the makeshift aluminum foil pipes attached to some lips, then you definitely see them all over the ground. I did not get my knowledge from a Walkman either. I got it from being in the street. The reason I don't shake in my boots being in downtown Medellin or Bogota after dark like most people do; for me it is second nature.I remember this story like it happened last week, everyone wanted to be like Rich after this LMAO.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/crime-history-richard-pryor-sets-self-on-fire

[MarquisdeSade1]

Whilst you are technically right about the fact that we know only a few details. The reality is that being a john in the US is far more risky from a law enforcement perspective than in many other places. For one the legality, and the social acceptance or lack of it are just different. We see a lot of local news about law enforcement raids at massage parlors, to prominent men's reputations ruined etc. All to make examples of this actiivty. We outlaw it, we ostracize it, we prosecute it and we condemn those that engage in it. These rules are written to crush men and their desires. They are feminist by design. Heck there are folks that travel abroad not at all for cost reasons but because legally they feel on better grounds.

So whilst you can say we don't know and you'd technically be right, I think there is a long track record for US law enforcement in this area. I for one won't engage in any of this stateside. So perhaps the reason people say this is ridiculous is most of these prosecutions are. Think of the Robert kraft one for example. Seriously? Ridiculous.
And the whole trafficking thing across state lines is ridiculous. Speaking of which I think this applys to any borders, so if you took a Colombiana to Mexico for P4P for example, from my read you can be prosecuted under the Mann act upon return and your credit card bills etc can be used as evidence.I wonder how the culture of Latin America (and other 3rd world mongering locales) see mongering in comparison to other issues ala.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/oct/01/gloria-estefan-sexual-abuse

[Mojo Bandit]

All because over 100 years ago they wanted to stop Black boxing champ Jack Johnson from fucking White women. Why you have to be careful what you vote for; there are a lot of unintended circumstances.They made a play and then a movie about this called the "The Great White Hope" - it was his role in this movie what made James Earl Jones an international movies star, he was nominated for a Best Actor Academy Award for his role as Jack Johnson.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_White_Hope_(film).

[Mojo Bandit]

. They're addicted to Heroin, Fentanyl, methamphetamines or opioid pain killers. There's no physical compulsion to addict you to cocaine. I.I used to use 'recreational' cocaine in the 1980's so I was around it when Crack became a thing. Mix in some baking soda. Smoke it real slow and the mind rush is amazing- and the comedown is horricia and make you want to beg for another hit. When I first arrived at the Army base where I was stationed in the early eighties you could drive off post and guys were standing on the street corner selling "dime bags" of sticky green bud. By the late eighties, my guess is around 1986 - those same guys were selling $10 rocks of crack cocaine on every corner- that is how popular it got.

I smoked that shit one time. A fellow solidier was teaching us how to rock it up by putting the right ratio of cocaine and bakings soda a bringing it to a boil. Come time to try it. There was about six of us in a circle, I took a long slow hot like the guy had showed us, and held it as long as I could and got one hell of a rush, but by the time the pipe got passed tow people beyond me the high was gone and a little part of me did not even want to wait for it to get back around. I wanted to take the pipe away from the person whose turn it was to get another hit to feel that good again instead of the plummeting feeling the withdrawl left in like a minute. I knew I was never going to touch that shit again.

Now flas forward a decade a developement took place regarding Chrystal Meth. What the bikers call "Gears" because it keeps them moving. The little guys that I used to score meth from were cooking small batches in their bathrooms back in the 1980's but somewhere along the way real life Breaking Bad Walter White motherfuckers started finding ways to cook that shit is huge quantities. Lots of this goes in tunnels under the USA / Mexican border. So then all of a sudden the price of chrystal meth dropped and all the crack heads moved over to meth. You cannot manufacture cocaine at a reasonable price so all the costs of importing and distrubution is built in.

For some guys who get mixed up with drug addicted girls it ends worse than with others. If anyone recalls the story of the Google Exec who got mixed up with a drug addict on SA and ended up overdosing.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alix-tichelman-call-girl-killer-describes-death-of-google-executive-forrest-hayes/

[JjBee62]

Whilst you are technically right about the fact that we know only a few details. The reality is that being a john in the US is far more risky from a law enforcement perspective than in many other places. For one the legality, and the social acceptance or lack of it are just different. We see a lot of local news about law enforcement raids at massage parlors, to prominent men's reputations ruined etc. All to make examples of this actiivty. We outlaw it, we ostracize it, we prosecute it and we condemn those that engage in it. These rules are written to crush men and their desires. They are feminist by design. Heck there are folks that travel abroad not at all for cost reasons but because legally they feel on better grounds.

So whilst you can say we don't know and you'd technically be right, I think there is a long track record for US law enforcement in this area. I for one won't engage in any of this stateside. So perhaps the reason people say this is ridiculous is most of these prosecutions are. Think of the Robert kraft one for example. Seriously? Ridiculous.
And the whole trafficking thing across state lines is ridiculous. Speaking of which I think this applys to any borders, so if you took a Colombiana to Mexico for P4P for example, from my read you can be prosecuted under the Mann act upon return and your credit card bills etc can be used as evidence.I agree completely with the risks of mongering in the US, however the laws have nothing to do with feminism. If anything it's the opposite, although mostly it's tied to the religious fundamentals who have long had a firm grip on US politics.

From a feminist viewpoint, prostitution should be legal. While some men have had reputations damaged, it's usually the women who end up in jail, and they seldom have any recourse if a customer decides not to pay, decides to beat them up, or forces something on them they didn't agree to.

As for Robert Kraft, I don't see how he was seriously damaged from his experience. He had to spend some money, but just chump change to him, his PR people had to work a bit more than normal and that's about it.

As I said before, everyone has their bias. We monger, we're usually going to be sympathetic towards the mongerer. Which causes many to pass judgement when they don't even know one side of the story.

[JjBee62]

Say huh? Mfs were addicted to smoking freebase cocaine before the rock (cocaine mixed with baking soda and water and boiled to remove impurities) came along. All the rock did was make it a more convenient way to smoke. It is not a different drug. There are plenty of people smoking cocaine in downtown Medellin. If you do not see the makeshift aluminum foil pipes attached to some lips, then you definitely see them all over the ground. I did not get my knowledge from a Walkman either. I got it from being in the street. The reason I don't shake in my boots being in downtown Medellin or Bogota after dark like most people do; for me it is second nature.You got off track. I'm talking about drug addict hookers in the US. I'm fairly certain very few of the girls smoking crack in Medellin are moonlighting as hookers in the US.

[JjBee62]

I used to use 'recreational' cocaine in the 1980's so I was around it when Crack became a thing. Mix in some baking soda. Smoke it real slow and the mind rush is amazing- and the comedown is horricia and make you want to beg for another hit. When I first arrived at the Army base where I was stationed in the early eighties you could drive off post and guys were standing on the street corner selling "dime bags" of sticky green bud. By the late eighties, my guess is around 1986 - those same guys were selling $10 rocks of crack cocaine on every corner- that is how popular it got.

I smoked that shit one time. A fellow solidier was teaching us how to rock it up by putting the right ratio of cocaine and bakings soda a bringing it to a boil. Come time to try it. There was about six of us in a circle, I took a long slow hot like the guy had showed us, and held it as long as I could and got one hell of a rush, but by the time the pipe got passed tow people beyond me the high was gone and a little part of me did not even want to wait for it to get back around. I wanted to take the pipe away from the person whose turn it was to get another hit to feel that good again instead of the plummeting feeling the withdrawl left in like a minute. I knew I was never going to touch that shit again.I was also doing cocaine in the 80's, but in the Navy instead of the Army. One night I ended up at the house of a big dealer, about 3 levels above the girl I usually bought from. Just like the movies he was giving it away. I probably snorted $300 worth for free. Sometime after midnight I caught myself laughing at some bad joke the guy had made. My brain shifted gears. Why was I laughing at a joke that wasn't funny? Why was I sucking up to a guy who was an asshole? The reason was right in front of me. I'm not an ass kissing kind of guy. Never have been, never will be. As soon as I realized the cause, I made 2 promises to myself. First, I was going to toot as much of the guys free coke as I could. Second, that was the last time I was doing coke.

About a year later was when Meth started getting popular. I tried it once and that was enough. At the time San Diego was the meth capitol. All the ingredients were legal to buy. You could walk into any chemical supply store and walk out with everything you needed. I guess it was 1988 or 89 when they busted all the San Diego labs, by collecting names and addresses from the chemical supply stores. I worked with a few guys who had done a few years for cooking meth.

After that the production moved to the Midwest. For 20-25 years it was a big problem around here. Now much of the product is coming in from Mexico.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Whilst you are technically right about the fact that we know only a few details. The reality is that being a john in the US is far more risky from a law enforcement perspective than in many other places. For one the legality, and the social acceptance or lack of it are just different. We see a lot of local news about law enforcement raids at massage parlors, to prominent men's reputations ruined etc. All to make examples of this actiivty. We outlaw it, we ostracize it, we prosecute it and we condemn those that engage in it. These rules are written to crush men and their desires. They are feminist by design. Heck there are folks that travel abroad not at all for cost reasons but because legally they feel on better grounds.

So whilst you can say we don't know and you'd technically be right, I think there is a long track record for US law enforcement in this area. I for one won't engage in any of this stateside. So perhaps the reason people say this is ridiculous is most of these prosecutions are. Think of the Robert kraft one for example. Seriously? Ridiculous.
And the whole trafficking thing across state lines is ridiculous. Speaking of which I think this applys to any borders, so if you took a Colombiana to Mexico for P4P for example, from my read you can be prosecuted under the Mann act upon return and your credit card bills etc can be used as evidence.https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/24/opinion/sex-positivity-feminism.html

[Elvis 2008]

And the whole trafficking thing across state lines is ridiculous. Speaking of which I think this applys to any borders, so if you took a Colombiana to Mexico for P4P for example, from my read you can be prosecuted under the Mann act upon return and your credit card bills etc can be used as evidence.Yeah, you are right and thanks for pointing that out. I know for a fact the Feds have not gone down that international route yet. What I will say is that it sure looks like they will suck what they can up now and then go international in the future.

Looking up the law, there is a provision in there for civil forfeiture. Hell, you do not even have to be convicted of trafficking to have assets seized. So IMO now we know what this is all about and how they are getting the world to buy into it. They want to fleece men traveling abroad and split it up with the locals. That has not happened yet, but I suspect it will.

Thing is you have JJBee, Tall Man, and now Paulie buying into this trafficking nonsense. The government has said if you are mongering, you are supporting trafficking and we are going to treat you the mongerer as a trafficker, and these guys are like, "Good, go get the bad guys", and they are oblivious to the fact that the government is talking about them as bad guys.

I am glad I am not doing this anymore because this shit is scary. Seizing assets without a conviction? WTF?

[MarquisdeSade1]

Yeah, you are right and thanks for pointing that out. I know for a fact the Feds have not gone down that international route yet. What I will say is that it sure looks like they will suck what they can up now and then go international in the future.

Looking up the law, there is a provision in there for civil forfeiture. Hell, you do not even have to be convicted of trafficking to have assets seized. So IMO now we know what this is all about and how they are getting the world to buy into it. They want to fleece men traveling abroad and split it up with the locals. That has not happened yet, but I suspect it will.

Thing is you have JJBee, Tall Man, and now Paulie buying into this trafficking nonsense. The government has said if you are mongering, you are supporting trafficking and we are going to treat you the mongerer as a trafficker, and these guys are like, "Good, go get the bad guys", and they are oblivious to the fact that the government is talking about them as bad guys.

I am glad I am not doing this anymore because this shit is scary. Seizing assets without a conviction? WTF?If they can control the sexual behavior of hetero men as a demographic via the force of the fed govt, its game over.

The feminists win, the gender war will have been lost.

And the every fat ugly **** ala Hillary Clinton will be upper mgmt in every single industry.

[The Tall Man]

Thing is you have JJBee, Tall Man, and now Paulie buying into this trafficking nonsense.I do not buy into the trafficking nonsense my comment what simply that this guy is a fool, a clown, a weekend warrior who has some plata but is just plain stupid thinking he could get away with his over the top actions and buy his way out of them, wrong! It is the arrogance that I find most disturbing.

The Tall Man.

[JjBee62]

I do not buy into the trafficking nonsense my comment what simply that this guy is a fool, a clown, a weekend warrior who has some plata but is just plain stupid thinking he could get away with his over the top actions and buy his way out of them, wrong! It is the arrogance that I find most disturbing.

The Tall Man.Actually nobody he mentioned has said anything that anyway "buys into trafficking. " That's just how he is. If he said it's Thursday and you correctly told him it was Monday you would immediately be classified as a communist, a feminist and a threat to humanity. If 45 minutes later he corrected himself and admitted it's Monday, you would still be an enemy of the state and anyone who pointed out the discrepancy would go on his "I hope you die" list.

All I said on the subject is that nobody here has enough information about the case to determine guilt or innocence. However, ElVagina has already sanctified the accused and declared a national holiday to honor his contributions to society, so anyone who hasn't offered praise to the accused- well I've already covered that.

It's not a difficult pattern to figure out, he repeats it with every post.

[JustTK]

Free-for-all for the boys, no escape or respite for the ladies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38lJSCz7C5g

[BlackThought]

I wonder how the culture of Latin America (and other 3rd world mongering locales) see mongering in comparison to other issues ala.

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2021/oct/01/gloria-estefan-sexual-abuseJajaj give it up. You're probably on everybody's ignore list lmao. Keep replying to ppls post, yet nobody responds. SAD!

[MarquisdeSade1]

Yeah, you are right and thanks for pointing that out. I know for a fact the Feds have not gone down that international route yet. What I will say is that it sure looks like they will suck what they can up now and then go international in the future.

Looking up the law, there is a provision in there for civil forfeiture. Hell, you do not even have to be convicted of trafficking to have assets seized. So IMO now we know what this is all about and how they are getting the world to buy into it. They want to fleece men traveling abroad and split it up with the locals. That has not happened yet, but I suspect it will.

Thing is you have JJBee, Tall Man, and now Paulie buying into this trafficking nonsense. The government has said if you are mongering, you are supporting trafficking and we are going to treat you the mongerer as a trafficker, and these guys are like, "Good, go get the bad guys", and they are oblivious to the fact that the government is talking about them as bad guys.

I am glad I am not doing this anymore because this shit is scary. Seizing assets without a conviction? WTF?Didn't Quasimodo just run away with her tail between her vagina lips begging for mercy? And she promised she would never return to the stoopid shit thread after getting her teeth kicked in, WTF? LMAO.

[GeneHickman]

As I said before, everyone has their bias. We monger, we're usually going to be sympathetic towards the mongerer. Which causes many to pass judgement when they don't even know one side of the story.Ultimately it does not matter who is responsible for what laws. As it stands from a mongers perspective, there is a real risk for him to get caught up in a completely consensual situation which morphs into something else. The atmosphere is toxic to men, between the #metoo movement, the millions of unhappy marriages brought on in part by feminism and other such unhealthy female attitudes, the punitive divorce laws, and then the antiquated laws such as the Mann act on the books. The Feds and prosecutors first decide the crime and then find the law to prosecute under, so these things are tools in their toolkit.

Why is it that we all travel abroad for this activity? Simple, the women are fitter, they're more amenable to P4 P, frankly more fun to hang out with, maybe the sex is better, and legally the risks are fewer. The cost maybe a factor for some but certainly not for many others. In my case considering the short stints I go for, and travel inconvenience considered, I certainly do not go for $ costs being lower. It's 100% the other factors mentioned. It's obvious that the US with its unique set of circumstances has become a sexual wasteland. It's not an exaggeration. We all are living walking evidence of it. From a libertarian perspective, if no 3rd party is involved, and I buy a chica a ticket to come meet me in X or why city. She is free to board or not board that plane. It's reprehensible that the law says anything to criminalize that. Only in the good old USA.

[Fun Luvr]

I do not buy into the trafficking nonsense my comment what simply that this guy is a fool, a clown, a weekend warrior who has some plata but is just plain stupid thinking he could get away with his over the top actions and buy his way out of them, wrong! It is the arrogance that I find most disturbing.

The Tall Man.So he should "rot in his prison cell" for being arrogant?

[The Tall Man]

So he should "rot in his prison cell" for being arrogant?Yea, why not.

The Tall Man.

[Elvis 2008]

Didn't Quasimodo just run away with her tail between her vagina lips begging for mercy? And she promised she would never return to the stoopid shit thread after getting her teeth kicked in, WTF? LMAO.LOL. Yeah, he did. He just could not help himself. Shit for brains is so in love with the government he cheers them on when they let cocaine using hos go free and prosecute men. He think this is the stodgy Republicans are to blame when the deep state is looking to cash in.

Robert Kraft supported Trump. He is a Republican. I was told that is why prosecutors threw the book at him for getting a $200 hand job from a Chinese American. The cops faked a bomb scare to put in a camera in the oriental spa, recorded all kinds of people going into this spa including Kraft, and released the Kraft video even when told by a judge not to do so. A Democratic douche the said Kraft supported trafficking presumably because the American who gave him the HJ was of Chinese origin. The whole thing probably cost Kraft a few million in legal fees and millions more in lost reputation / image.

Shit for brains does not get the concept that if they are going after Kraft, they are going after all of us. But what does shit for brains say about Kraft? It was not that bad because he could afford it. Jesus.

And then cocaine is not addictive. What that has to do with anything is beyond me? If you have anything to do with drugs, the feds are going to nail you.

And what about Hunter Biden and all the underage women? That is fine. And his impregnating a stripper? Fine. The feds told him he has nothing to worry about. I guess he did not pay the stripper. She must have liked him. LOL. Remember all the intelligence agents saying Hunter Biden's laptop was classic Russian disinformation?

I am just amazed at how many people want the government to pat them on the heads and want other people thrown in jail. This guy and Martha Stewart were not a threat to anyone. So why are they being locked up? And why are guys like Tall Man, JJBee, and Paulie cheering them on when the exact same thing could be done to them? They are seeing hos. They are negotiating them down. It is amazing to me how people support the government no matter how stupid they are. Hell, Paulie wants cheating husbands punished. If you put the men who see hos and who cheat on their wives in jail, you would literally be locking up half the male population.

When you throw productive people in jail, Republican or Democrat, everyone loses.

When the Colombian government imposed Draconian restrictions due to Covid, the citizens rebelled, and you know what? They stopped almost all the Covid restrictions and amazingly the cases of Covid in Colombia plummeted. That would never happen here.

If you have a car and transport a woman in said car across state lines, the feds can seize that car without even making an arrest. All they need is an accusation. That is what this trafficking thing is about. If any other entity pursued such disgusting behavior, they would be sued into the ground, but the feds have immunity, and they can get away with anything. This is the deep state in action.

I have my Colombian gal and am keeping her there in Colombia and will travel to see her every month. I am a boring Saint in the USA and have my fun abroad. I am out and suggest others do similar things. If you or others want to follow shit for brains lead, have at it. I have seen enough to check out.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Jajaj give it up. You're probably on everybody's ignore list lmao. Keep replying to ppls post, yet nobody responds. SAD!The only thing sad around here is your fawning / asslicking posts you write like a child trying to join in the convo with the big boys jajajaja.

Take your asslicking prowess and get back to ccp land ASAP.

There must lots of dirty diarrhea asses for you these days.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2021-10/news/us-uk-pledge-nuclear-submarines-australia

The world is closing in on the CCP / Xi India Australia Japan Russia UK the EU Indonesia Vietnam the Philippines, the noose is getting tighter.

I tried painting an image of you in posts, but I guess they haven't made thru moderation, I would love to write what I really would like others to see.

You can always send me an I'm and we can chat there? Or exchange email whatsapp etc.

I get tired of responding to your childish trolling and then if I do, it doesn't even get posted.

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/gordonchang-xijinping-chinese-taliban/2021/09/12/id/1036036/

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/gordon-chang-chinese-spy-dong-jingwei-spy/2021/06/19/id/1025698/

https://www.newsmax.com/newsmax-tv/gordon-chang-china-covid-pandemic/2021/08/07/id/1031494/

[JjBee62]

As I said, his arrest had only a minimal effect on him. All charges were dropped along with all charges against the other 25 people arrested. Even before charges were dropped, he was only facing 2 misdemeanors.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/robert-kraft-prostitution-charges-dropped-florida-prosecutors-n1240964

Some people seem to believe he was facing life in prison.

[Villainy]

Jajaj give it up. You're probably on everybody's ignore list lmao. Keep replying to ppls post, yet nobody responds. SAD!You're exactly right. Most people here are not interested in having a discussion with some foul-mouthed high-school kid.

[BlackThought]

You're exactly right. Most people here are not interested in having a discussion with some foul-mouthed high-school kid.Jajaja yea it's hilarious, he's so desperate for validation lmao. I bet the chicas ignore him as well, so he comes up with fantasies in his mom's basement. Too bad everybody knows his stories are nothing but fabricated BS jajajaj.

[BlackThought]

The only thing sad around here is your fawning / asslicking posts you write like a child trying to join in the convo with the big boys jajajaja.

Take your asslicking prowess and get back to ccp land ASAP.

There must lots of dirty diarrhea asses for you these days.

https://www.armscontrol.org/act/2021-10/news/us-uk-pledge-nuclear-submarines-australia

The world is closing in on the CCP / Xi India Australia Japan Russia UK the EU Indonesia Vietnam the Philippines, the noose is getting tighter.

I tried painting an image of you in posts, but I guess they haven't made thru moderation, I would love to write what I really would like others to see.

You can always send me an I'm and we can chat there? Or exchange email whatsapp etc.

I get tired of responding to your childish trolling and then if I do, it doesn't even get posted.Jajaja spewing stupid shit again, it's no wonder this thread is your new found home LOL.

[LoveItHere69]

As I said, his arrest had only a minimal effect on him. All charges were dropped along with all charges against the other 25 people arrested. Even before charges were dropped, he was only facing 2 misdemeanors.

Some people seem to believe he was facing life in prison.He is a billionaire so of course things were dropped.

The news made 2 misdemeanors front page news and the main topic on the TV and cable news for weeks. Media makes mountains out of mole hills. The problem is that so many people still believe the news. The news media is not like it was 30 years ago. Reputation and facts mean nothing now.

[Elvis 2008]

He is a billionaire so of course things were dropped.Yes, but let's get things straight here. He had the money to fight. The government has a payroll and you better have a million to fight something like this.


As I said, his arrest had only a minimal effect on him. All charges were dropped along with all charges against the other 25 people arrested. Even before charges were dropped, he was only facing 2 misdemeanors.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/robert-kraft-prostitution-charges-dropped-florida-prosecutors-n1240964

Some people seem to believe he was facing life in prison.Uh, Okay shit for brains.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190225/video-human-trafficking-evil-in-our-midst-aronberg-says-in-announcing-prostitution-arrests

Kraft, 77, faces two counts of soliciting a prostitute, a first-degree misdemeanor punishable by up to one year in jail.

Just one year huh? Yeah, well, that is not what LE really wanted.

Calling human trafficking in Palm Beach County "evil in our midst," State Attorney Dave Aronberg announced Monday that 25 men accused of paying for sex acts at a Jupiter day spa have been formally charged with soliciting a prostitute.

The arrests are among more than 60 in a multiagency crackdown on day spas where authorities allege women who came to the United States from China for what they thought were legitimate jobs in the spas were forced to perform sex acts on clients. They also say the women were largely confined to the spas, eating and sleeping there and often having to surrender their passports.

To date, no one arrested as part of the investigation faces a charge of human trafficking, defined as the soliciting, recruiting or harboring of another person to exploit him or her for labor, domestic servitude or sexual exploitation, although Aronberg said at a news conference on Monday on the steps of the Palm Beach County Courthouse that that situation could change.

"Human trafficking is the business of stealing someone's freedom for profit," said Aronberg, whose office for two years has led a task force that targets human trafficking. "It can happen anywhere, including the peaceful community of Jupiter, Florida. "

End of quote.

The offense of human trafficking charged under Florida Statute Section 787.06 (3), is punishable as a first-degree felony. A first-degree felony is punishable by a state prison term not exceeding 30 years, a fine not exceeding $10,000, or both.

So how come Kraft walked? He used a prostitute no question about it, but he walked because of the incompetence of the police, and the woman who gave Kraft a HJ was not willing to testify against Kraft. I wonder how much Kraft paid her. Whatever she got afterwards was worth it.

So shit for brains LE lost because of their stupidity. What they wanted was him in jail for decades and to slice up his billions with them and the Feds as beneficiaries. Why else would they be shooting their mouths off about trafficking?

And all this for a fucking consensual HJ.

[GeneHickman]

Yes, but let's get things straight here. He had the money to fight. The government has a payroll and you better have a million to fight something like this.

Uh, Okay shit for brains.

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20190225/video-human-trafficking-evil-in-our-midst-aronberg-says-in-announcing-prostitution-arrests


So shit for brains LE lost because of their stupidity. What they wanted was him in jail for decades and to slice up his billions with them and the Feds as beneficiaries. Why else would they be shooting their mouths off about trafficking?

And all this for a fucking consensual HJ.I've never understood why some mongers don't understand the potential implications of such events on their lives. The Feds could go after any of us literally if they wanted to do so. They will just put some BS charge and ruin your reputation. This is one of those things where a public accusation is a punishment in and of itself. We rightfully shield rape victims from publicity, but don't see it fit to do the same for things like this atleast till guilt proven. Explain the equity in that?
Imagine the impact of this on those 25 charged people who are not Robert Kraft. Their personal lives and reputations, and mental health.

And for what? Some puritanical tirade and stance by an overbearing power structure cow towing to the feminists on one hand and the religious purists on the other. I don't go near an Asian massage parlor for this reason, the risks are just too high. FFS putting a hidden camera in a massage room? That's your tax dollars at work? Going after consensual activity, pushing all P4P off US servers? Even seeking website becoming a monitored space? I remind you all of why his website is Netherlands based.
Men are increasingly being repressed in this country and it's not heading anywhere good. Billionaire or not is irrelevant to what was done to him, only relevant to the legal outcome. Equally I think he was targeted due to his political links,his fame and to make an example. But the message is loud and clear if you don't choose to plug your ears and shut your eyes.

[RacShack]

I've never understood why some mongers don't understand the potential implications of such events on their lives. The Feds could go after any of us literally if they wanted to do so. They will just put some BS charge and ruin your reputation. This is one of those things where a public accusation is a punishment in and of itself. We rightfully shield rape victims from publicity, but don't see it fit to do the same for things like this atleast till guilt proven. Explain the equity in that?
Imagine the impact of this on those 25 charged people who are not Robert Kraft. Their personal lives and reputations, and mental health.

And for what? Some puritanical tirade and stance by an overbearing power structure cow towing to the feminists on one hand and the religious purists on the other. I don't go near an Asian massage parlor for this reason, the risks are just too high. FFS putting a hidden camera in a massage room? That's your tax dollars at work? Going after consensual activity, pushing all P4P off US servers? Even seeking website becoming a monitored space? I remind you all of why his website is Netherlands based.
Men are increasingly being repressed in this country and it's not heading anywhere good. Billionaire or not is irrelevant to what was done to him, only relevant to the legal outcome. Equally I think he was targeted due to his political links,his fame and to make an example. But the message is loud and clear if you don't choose to plug your ears and shut your eyes.Wow this is the most honest and truthful way to put this shit! Crazy, but true! Total big pitcher!

[JjBee62]

I've never understood why some mongers don't understand the potential implications of such events on their lives. The Feds could go after any of us literally if they wanted to do so. They will just put some BS charge and ruin your reputation. This is one of those things where a public accusation is a punishment in and of itself. We rightfully shield rape victims from publicity, but don't see it fit to do the same for things like this atleast till guilt proven. Explain the equity in that?
Imagine the impact of this on those 25 charged people who are not Robert Kraft. Their personal lives and reputations, and mental health.

And for what? Some puritanical tirade and stance by an overbearing power structure cow towing to the feminists on one hand and the religious purists on the other. I don't go near an Asian massage parlor for this reason, the risks are just too high. FFS putting a hidden camera in a massage room? That's your tax dollars at work? Going after consensual activity, pushing all P4P off US servers? Even seeking website becoming a monitored space? I remind you all of why his website is Netherlands based..The police all over the US run stings on massage parlors all the time. They run stings on street prostitution all the time. No whacked out conspiracy theories needed. It's a mathematical certainty that from time to time they'll get someone rich or famous. Same thing happens with DUI checkpoints.

Here's what it boils down to, he broke the law. I'm not saying the law is fair, I'm not saying the police didn't overstep the boundaries. I'm saying that he broke the law. Do you understand? If you break the law you need to understand there are risks.

Every day people are arrested for breaking some law that doesn't hurt anyone, but if they don't have any money they spend years in prison, many of them die there. But you want to focus on the terrible ordeal Robert Kraft faced? Oh the humanity! Give me a fucking break. Just last Sunday night, during the football game, the camera panned to Robert Kraft, enjoying the game in his private box. Did they mention the arrest? Did they say anything bad about his character? No. They praised the success of his team.

If you want the laws changed, you're crying to the wrong crowd. Nobody on ISG has any say about the laws against getting an overpriced handjob. If it's that important to you, you need to be at your local statehouse demanding the right to pay some 60 year old Chinese woman to jerk you off.

But that requires you to actually get out there and do something rather than just whining about how unfair it is.

[BlackThought]

I've never understood why some mongers don't understand the potential implications of such events on their lives. The Feds could go after any of us literally if they wanted to do so. They will just put some BS charge and ruin your reputation. This is one of those things where a public accusation is a punishment in and of itself. We rightfully shield rape victims from publicity, but don't see it fit to do the same for things like this atleast till guilt proven. Explain the equity in that?
Imagine the impact of this on those 25 charged people who are not Robert Kraft. Their personal lives and reputations, and mental health.

And for what? Some puritanical tirade and stance by an overbearing power structure cow towing to the feminists on one hand and the religious purists on the other. I don't go near an Asian massage parlor for this reason, the risks are just too high. FFS putting a hidden camera in a massage room? That's your tax dollars at work? Going after consensual activity, pushing all P4P off US servers? Even seeking website becoming a monitored space? I remind you all of why his website is Netherlands based.
Men are increasingly being repressed in this country and it's not heading anywhere good. Billionaire or not is irrelevant to what was done to him, only relevant to the legal outcome. Equally I think he was targeted due to his political links,his fame and to make an example. But the message is loud and clear if you don't choose to plug your ears and shut your eyes.I avoid mongering in the states for the reasons you've listed, the risk isn't worth it.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Jajaja spewing stupid shit again, it's no wonder this thread is your new found home LOL.Yeah I didn't think you would accept my offer, you rather shoot spitballs like a 5 yo in kindergarten and then hide behind the teachers skirt for protection jajajajaaaaa.

Just get back to doing what I'm guessing you do best, eating diseased dirty assholes 24/7!!

[GeneHickman]

The police all over the US run stings on massage parlors all the time. They run stings on street prostitution all the time. No whacked out conspiracy theories needed. It's a mathematical certainty that from time to time they'll get someone rich or famous. Same thing happens with DUI checkpoints.
But that requires you to actually get out there and do something rather than just whining about how unfair it is.Did I not categorically say that it was about the 25 other guys caught up in the sting. The reason we are taking about this sting though and not the dozens that happen monthly across the country is precisely because Robert Kraft was involved. It's what caused the publicity. The fact that he is rich is irrelevant other than that he gets the best lawyers as you said. The reputational hit to every person caught up in this is what I was talking about. As to the rest of you rant about him, sounds to me like envy.
Whether he was targeted or not is debatable and you nor I know this with any certainty. I can call you polyannish just as you can call me paranoid. How did he break the law when this was consensual? Isn't that why the charged were dropped?

The law is shit we all here can agree, but we live in a democracy and those are the rules set by the majority. No point going on a moral crusade over it. It's not about doing work or not. Many of us have figured out at its far better and easier to just jump on a plane and do our thing where it is legally acceptable.

Yet it doesn't change the fact that the direction of US society has been increasingly repressive to the male gender. The result, broken families and increasing societal ills. Drug use, mental health issues, broken families, etc etc.

Probably over 1/2 the damn health care spend in this country is due to social problems that come up due to broken family structures and it's downstream effects. It matters because the health work force is burnt out and the spending is out of control and all I hear is health care is a right and social infrastructure. It used to be called a family. Feminism is a driving force for this and it doesn't work for most men. We all know where politically feminists are parked.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Did I not categorically say that it was about the 25 other guys caught up in the sting. The reason we are taking about this sting though and not the dozens that happen monthly across the country is precisely because Robert Kraft was involved. It's what caused the publicity. The fact that he is rich is irrelevant other than that he gets the best lawyers as you said. The reputational hit to every person caught up in this is what I was talking about. As to the rest of you rant about him, sounds to me like envy.
Whether he was targeted or not is debatable and you nor I know this with any certainty. I can call you polyannish just as you can call me paranoid. How did he break the law when this was consensual? Isn't that why the charged were dropped?

The law is shit we all here can agree, but we live in a democracy and those are the rules set by the majority. No point going on a moral crusade over it. It's not about doing work or not. Many of us have figured out at its far better and easier to just jump on a plane and do our thing where it is legally acceptable.

Yet it doesn't change the fact that the direction of US society has been increasingly repressive to the male gender. The result, broken families and increasing societal ills. Drug use, mental health issues, broken families, etc etc..Bravo, encore por favor!

[JjBee62]

Did I not categorically say that it was about the 25 other guys caught up in the sting. The reason we are taking about this sting though and not the dozens that happen monthly across the country is precisely because Robert Kraft was involved. It's what caused the publicity. The fact that he is rich is irrelevant other than that he gets the best lawyers as you said. The reputational hit to every person caught up in this is what I was talking about. As to the rest of you rant about him, sounds to me like envy.
Whether he was targeted or not is debatable and you nor I know this with any certainty. I can call you polyannish just as you can call me paranoid. How did he break the law when this was consensual? Isn't that why the charged were dropped?

The law is shit we all here can agree, but we live in a democracy and those are the rules set by the majority. No point going on a moral crusade over it. It's not about doing work or not. Many of us have figured out at its far better and easier to just jump on a plane and do our thing where it is legally acceptable.

Yet it doesn't change the fact that the direction of US society has been increasingly repressive to the male gender. The result, broken families and increasing societal ills. Drug use, mental health issues, broken families, etc etc.

Probably over 1/2 the damn health care spend in this country is due to social problems that come up due to broken family structures and it's downstream effects. It matters because the health work force is burnt out and the spending is out of control and all I hear is health care is a right and social infrastructure. It used to be called a family. Feminism is a driving force for this and it doesn't work for most men. We all know where politically feminists are parked.The charges were dropped because a judge ruled the video surveillance from inside the massage parlor inadmissible. Without the video evidence there's no proof that any laws were broken. That was specifically stated in the article I linked.

In most of the United States it's not considered consensual if money is exchanged. If you need to have it explained go talk to a lawyer.

As for the reputation hit, it goes away pretty quickly.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Did I not categorically say that it was about the 25 other guys caught up in the sting. The reason we are taking about this sting though and not the dozens that happen monthly across the country is precisely because Robert Kraft was involved. It's what caused the publicity. The fact that he is rich is irrelevant other than that he gets the best lawyers as you said. The reputational hit to every person caught up in this is what I was talking about. As to the rest of you rant about him, sounds to me like envy.
Whether he was targeted or not is debatable and you nor I know this with any certainty. I can call you polyannish just as you can call me paranoid. How did he break the law when this was consensual? Isn't that why the charged were dropped?

The law is shit we all here can agree, but we live in a democracy and those are the rules set by the majority. No point going on a moral crusade over it. It's not about doing work or not. Many of us have figured out at its far better and easier to just jump on a plane and do our thing where it is legally acceptable.

Yet it doesn't change the fact that the direction of US society has been increasingly repressive to the male gender. The result, broken families and increasing societal ills. Drug use, mental health issues, broken families, etc etc.Of all of the deadly sins Jealousy is the worst mofo.

https://amgreatness.com/2021/08/20/envy-as-the-path-to-political-power/

https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/04/because-they-got-away-with-russiagate/

[GeneHickman]

The charges were dropped because a judge ruled the video surveillance from inside the massage parlor inadmissible. Without the video evidence there's no proof that any laws were broken. That was specifically stated in the article I linked.

In most of the United States it's not considered consensual if money is exchanged. If you need to have it explained go talk to a lawyer.

As for the reputation hit, it goes away pretty quickly.I am no legal expert and don't pretend to be, that said, why is seeking even a legal entity then? Sex is generally consensual, and money / gifts / stipend or whatever it's called is usually exchanged. I do none of this stateside not interested to do so, so I never bothered to look into the legalities. I am wise enough to know your ass is hanging onto an assumption that you don't run into a psycho that makes an accusation and you are toast. To me, the criminalization of this pursuit is a societal ill.

[Mr Enternational]

The law is shit we all here can agree, but we live in a democracy and those are the rules set by the majority.Nope. We live in a constitutional republic where the majority voted for those who set the rules.

[GeneHickman]

Nope. We live in a constitutional republic where the majority voted for those who set the rules.Fair enough. Bottom line the voice of the feminist and the religious right puts a screw job on men, and that ain't changing anytime soon.

[BlackThought]

Of all of the deadly sins Jealousy is the worst mofo.

https://amgreatness.com/2021/08/20/envy-as-the-path-to-political-power/

https://amgreatness.com/2021/06/04/because-they-got-away-with-russiagate/You should know that firsthand, hating on mongers just because you can't afford to get out of mom's basement jajajaja.

How's the MDE studies going? When are you releasing your next fairytale jajaja.

[Villainy]

You should know that firsthand, hating on mongers just because you can't afford to get out of mom's basement jajajaja.

How's the MDE studies going? When are you releasing your next fairytale jajaja.Well, I'm betting he is going to respond with his "go to" response. That means he'll call you some names and then suggest you go lick someone's crack. Kind of reminds me of what a young high school student says when they are completely outclassed. If I remember right he claims to have visited Thailand, Philippines, Mexico, Colombia, Russia and on and on. BUT oddly enough. No one on the boards has ever met him.

[MarquisdeSade1]

You should know that firsthand, hating on mongers just because you can't afford to get out of mom's basement jajajaja.

How's the MDE studies going? When are you releasing your next fairytale jajaja.I'm sure everyone could all use a good laugh or cry jajajaaa.

Please post a foto of your lips and tongue that are encrusted with anal warts you low IQ psychotic dirtbag.

Por favor?

[BlackThought]

Well, I'm betting he is going to respond with his "go to" response. That means he'll call you some names and then suggest you go lick someone's crack. Kind of reminds me of what a young high school student says when they are completely outclassed. If I remember right he claims to have visited Thailand, Philippines, Mexico, Colombia, Russia and on and on. BUT oddly enough. No one on the boards has ever met him.Yup. You nailed it, he's a coward that's why LOL.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Well, I'm betting he is going to respond with his "go to" response. That means he'll call you some names and then suggest you go lick someone's crack. Kind of reminds me of what a young high school student says when they are completely outclassed. If I remember right he claims to have visited Thailand, Philippines, Mexico, Colombia, Russia and on and on. BUT oddly enough. No one on the boards has ever met him.Says the worthless scumbag that loves Xi and China!!

You set the bar pretty low dirtbag!

[MarquisdeSade1]

You're exactly right. Most people here are not interested in having a discussion with some foul-mouthed high-school kid.Says the Xi CCP ass licker aka JJquasimodo buttbuddy.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Well, I'm betting he is going to respond with his "go to" response. That means he'll call you some names and then suggest you go lick someone's crack. Kind of reminds me of what a young high school student says when they are completely outclassed. If I remember right he claims to have visited Thailand, Philippines, Mexico, Colombia, Russia and on and on. BUT oddly enough. No one on the boards has ever met him.Someone might be flattered you're stalking their old posts but not me, you freak.

Are you trying to "cancel" me like those turds that dig up old twitter posts and emails etc LOL.

You are quite the Vagina! Keep up the good work, maybe you should find a Raquel Maddow fan club forum!

[BlackThought]

Someone might be flattered you're stalking their old posts but not me, you freak.

Are you trying to "cancel" me like those turds that dig up old twitter posts and emails etc LOL.

You are quite the Vagina! Keep up the good work, maybe you should find a Raquel Maddow fan club forum!You've been canceled, that's why nobody even responds to you in the MDE thread lmao. Digging up your post history proved how full of shit you are jajaja.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Yup. You nailed it, he's a coward that's why LOL.And the rest of the CCP you worthless scumbag.

While they destroy the planet with their pollution.

And drive the 3rd world poor deeper into despair with the Chines virus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/business/economy/imf-world-economic-outlook.html

Post-script and lets not forget what they have done vis a vis, the Chinese virus in regards to the hobby this website is dedicated to.

[BlackThought]

And the rest of the CCP you worthless scumbag.

While they destroy the planet with their pollution.

And drive the 3rd world poor deeper into despair with the Chines virus.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/12/business/economy/imf-world-economic-outlook.html

Post-script and lets not forget what they have done vis a vis, the Chinese virus in regards to the hobby this website is dedicated to.Just reported your irrelevant post in the MDE thread. Stay off that thread chump, it's for mongers. Not fiction writers.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Just reported your irrelevant post in the MDE thread. Stay off that thread chump, it's for mongers. Not fiction writers.Such harsh words for an ass licking little puta jajajajajaaaa.

Why don't you get to CCP land the diarrhea must be off the charts for them and "you" jajaja.

Take the other asslickers with you? We all know who they are theyve all self disclosed already like yourself!!

You reported my post? Are you advertising what a childish little vagina you are again, reporting youtubes and encouraging others to do so as well (just a grade school snitching vagina).

Go find another site you slimey syphilis and mouth ridden with anal warts ass licker.

This is a site for men that like pussy not ladyboys that like eating assholes and shit on every continent.

Feel free to chat me anytime on whatsapp signal telegram line et al.

[BlackThought]

Such harsh words for an ass licking little puta jajajajajaaaa.

Why don't you get to CCP land the diarrhea must be off the charts for them and "you" jajaja.

Take the other asslickers with you? We all know who they are theyve all self disclosed already like yourself!!

You reported my post? Are you advertising what a childish little vagina you are again, reporting youtubes and encouraging others to do so as well (just a grade school snitching vagina).

Go find another site you slimey syphilis and mouth ridden with anal warts ass licker.

This is a site for men that like pussy not ladyboys that like eating assholes and shit on every continent.

Feel free to chat me anytime on whatsapp signal telegram line et al.You sure you want to stick with your story that you're 54?

[JustTK]

New report of 4 Oct. Funded by Pfizer.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21) 02183-8/ fulltext.

Must be a little worrying to thiose vax mandaters that try to ridicule and insult objectors.

[Mr Enternational]

New report of 4 Oct. Funded by Pfizer.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21) 02183-8/ fulltext.

Must be a little worrying to thiose vax mandaters that try to ridicule and insult objectors.Someone is sure to say that The Lancet has been pushing a certain agenda since 1823.

[JustTK]

Someone is sure to say that The Lancet has been pushing a certain agenda since 1823.Even though the study was funded by Pfizer? Hehe.

[Paulie97]

New report of 4 Oct. Funded by Pfizer.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21) 02183-8/ fulltext.

Must be a little worrying to thiose vax mandaters that try to ridicule and insult objectors.Your link is dead. Here's one from the Lancet that demonstrates the effectiveness of the MRNA vaccines.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21) 00947-8/ fulltext.

That said, I recommend that you stay away from the vaccines. There's a time and a place to let Darwinism run it's course. Wink.

[Paulie97]

Someone is sure to say that The Lancet has been pushing a certain agenda since 1823.I find a little on this out there, but more related to recent times. Feel free to elaborate further.

P.S. Even in the tougher situations, such as the summer surge in Israel which is currently waning, the vaccines are still highly effective against severe cases that lead to hospitalizations and death.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/08/11/israels-recent-surge-confirms-we-need-a-multimodal-strategy-to-fight-covid-19/?sh=52f6f09c5b6e

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/

[Huacho]

Even though the study was funded by Pfizer? Hehe.Maybe if your link worked one could opine. Otherwise one might be tempted to conclude that since it's pretty stupid not to get a safe vaccine during a global pandemic, not to mention evil to run around mongering while not vaccinated, and since it's pretty stupid not to notice the link is not right, you're probably stupid.

[LoveItHere69]

"Bros before Hoes" Hate that saying. I go overseas to be with Hoes and not to make friends with Bros. So many guys claim to be millionaire business owners, rocket scientists, and ex-special forces.

"he / She has no reason to lie". So that makes it true? Nearly every guy I met overseas was full of shit just like the girls. Example, last week I was sitting at the bench and these two foreigners start arguing about some drug that was given to the other guy but was not a gift and he wanted paid. So one of this groups friends (staying at Premier Plaza) sits next to me to watch the shit show. He tell me he wants to go to Bogota. Then soon after said he had been to Bogota so I called him on it to explain. He explained that he transferred planes in Bogota to get to Medellin. A plane transfer does not equate to being there. That is like saying I have been to Disney World but never left their parking lot. Then he talked about a vasectomy and I said it was one of the best things I did and he said, "We are on the same page. " and wanted to bump fists. I asked him if he did it and he said no. I told him we are not on the same page. It is simple and cheap surgery and you have not done it.

"he is a member of the Board" like that means a damn thing. Two guys wanted pregnant chicks. I openly on the Board posted to PM me and I will personally walk you to 5-7. Crickets. The third guy I hinted by listing my prior post about preggies but not smart enough to ask me to show him the preggies. Another example is a guy said it was his dream to have twins so I showed him 2 pictures and it would cost $140 for both with taxi. $140 was too expensive to fulfill a "dream" at age 63. How much time does the fool think he has left? Another guy PM'ed me was coming in October of last year and still not here. In fact, he has never been to Colombia and posts all the time. We all know who that is.

I also like the logic I read "I met the guy and we spent a few hours together" which simply equates to I met him, I liked him, thus he must be telling the truth.

Underage scams is huge in the Philippines. I know very few guys but of the few I did know, 4 had it done to them. Two of those guys had it done 2-3 times because they were retarded. I had it done to me by CIDG (equates to FBI). Spent 10 hours at their office before they let me go. Nothing paid. Super long story because of the small details. Second time a girl just threatened that the police are coming to get me. Whole different ballgame on that field. The Koreans get slaughtered on set-ups there. Do not go to the Philippines. You would get eaten alive.

Ex-buddy got set-up for $2000 USD for abusing a girl. She had bruises from being pushed or falling down some stairs. Months later a girl in his favorite bar told me he was rough when he gets drunk. She had no reason to lie but I can not believe her because no proof either way. But the guy tried screwing me over in some ways that pissed me off so karma got him.

BS! Everyone that ever gets set-up changes hotel location ASAP but you did not. You even talk about seeing her again. That also never happens. You met the police the next day? You got in his car? You gave him another 1 million? You also think you can be buddies with that cop? He is getting more information so he knows what you are really worth because you already have proven what a sucker you are that you gave him money twice.

[JustTK]

Maybe if your link worked one could opine. you're probably stupid.Yeah your probably right. Couldn't possibly be this websites autocorrect function during posting. Must just be me who is stupid.

Try this one. www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext

I look fwd to your non stupid comments.

[JustTK]

Couldn't possibly be this websites autocorrect function.Yep, its the autocorrect of this website. Did it a second time. Probably bcos the url contains brackets.

[Paulie97]

Maybe if your link worked one could opine. Otherwise one might be tempted to conclude that since it's pretty stupid not to get a safe vaccine during a global pandemic, not to mention evil to run around mongering while not vaccinated, and since it's pretty stupid not to notice the link is not right, you're probably stupid.Who knows. He showed up here a few months ago trolling around, very talkative with an opinion about everything, pushing fallacious arguments against Covid restrictions and vaccines. When refuted he just disassociates himself from his own words and backpeddles off into the sunset. May be a sock puppet for someone else that has never set foot in Colombia. Is usually better off ignored, but in matters of life and death a correction or two once in a while may be warranted. It's up to you.

[Elvis 2008]

I find a little on this out there, but more related to recent times. Feel free to elaborate further.

P.S. Even in the tougher situations, such as the summer surge in Israel which is currently waning, the vaccines are still highly effective against severe cases that lead to hospitalizations and death.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2021/08/11/israels-recent-surge-confirms-we-need-a-multimodal-strategy-to-fight-covid-19/?sh=52f6f09c5b6e

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/israel/This is from the above article: A July report from the Israel Ministry of Health found that Pfizer / BioNTech's Covid-19 vaccine is just 39% effective in Israel, where the Delta variant is the dominant strain but still provides strong protection against severe illness and hospitalization.

39% LOL. Better get busy and mandate that!

It gets worse: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/.

Look at total number of active cases: 17.8 million. Now where are they? USA has 9.7 million or 54% of cases. UK, another country with a huge number of vaccinated is #2 with 1.3 million or 8% of cases. Now how can two of the most vaccinated countries in the world be home to roughly 2 in 3 cases of active Covid?

Is it possible that giving the vaccine causes disease? WTF other explanation is there?

All this economic destructiveness that went on because we had to do something, and the USA is still #1 in Covid. All the money that was spent, all the hand wringing, all the preaching, all the lecturing, and it is estimated that 100 million Americans have had Covid by now.

Isn't it time to ask if we did any fucking good at all?

India should have been destroyed by Covid, and I read a report that a free medicine packet that contained $2. 65 worth of medications saved that nation. India may be the only nation on earth that actually really did something about Covid.

Have you all noticed that since Colombia ended the lockdown cases in Colombia went from 30,000 a day to less than 2000? Amazing huh?

[JustTK]

trolling around,.Really? Making posts is trolling? So your trolling now, right?


pushing fallacious arguments against Covid restrictions and vaccines.Name one, name one fallacious argument. Or are you just making fallacious claims?


disassociates himself from his own words and backpeddles off into the sunset.You mean refuses to be strawmanned. Hehe.


May be a sock puppet for someone else that has never set foot in Colombia.Not sure what a sock puppet is. But has met Mr E in Centro, would have met Osteo last week too if it wasnt plssing it down!

Seems its your words that can be ignored.

[JustTK]

This is from the above article: A July report from the Israel Ministry of Health found that Pfizer / BioNTech's Covid-19 vaccine is just 39% effective in Israel, where the
39% LOL. Better get busy and mandate that!
All this economic destructiveness that went on because we had to do something, and the USA is still #1 in Covid. All the money that was spent, all the hand wringing, all the preaching, all the lecturing, and it is estimated that 100 million Americans have had Covid by now.
Have you all noticed that since Colombia ended the lockdown cases in Colombia went from 30,000 a day to less than 2000? Amazing huh?Hehe. In the link I posted, if you managed to figure out the url that ISG keeps altering, Pfizer themselves funded a study that shows their own vaccine is 47% effective after 5 months. Really? Is that a vaccine or a pair of rubber gloves? Vegan diet does 73% better on COVID outcomes. That's a better long term result than Pfizer. Maybe that's why India has such low deaths (other than understating their deaths).

Yes, I agree on Colombia. Amazing that COVID is last year's news here now. Its not even mentioned anymore. They have obviously reached a level of natural immunity where the virus no longer poses a national emergency. Plus they don't have an obesity rate of 42.4%, and all the other confounding factors of a generally low health country.

But anyway, on with the insults and ad hominems.

[BlackThought]

Another guy PM'ed me was coming in October of last year and still not here. In fact, he has never been to Colombia and posts all the time. We all know who that is.Oh you didn't know? He was busy spending 180 nights in the Philippines jajajaj.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Another guy PM'ed me was coming in October of last year and still not here. In fact, he has never been to Colombia and posts all the time. We all know who that is..Jajajaaaaa are you referencing me?? Yes I've been there a couple times since then, and I'm pretty sure it was you that pmed me to meet up, do you seriously think I would ever meet up with a complete whackjob like you? I have met up with ISGers all over the world, but not.

Ones like you, you must be one of the goofiest members on all of ISG along with that made in China defective POS veryscaryselfharmingthoughts which I'm guessing is about 12-13 yo by the content of her posts.

If anyone reads your posts and agrees to meet up with you they belong in a damn psych ward also!!

[Ptrbrgr]

Yeah your probably right. Couldn't possibly be this websites autocorrect function during posting. Must just be me who is stupid.

Try this one. www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21)02183-8/fulltext

I look fwd to your non stupid comments.In the paper you cite the authors conclude (p1413) "Our results reiterate in a real-world US setting that vaccination with BNT162 b2 remains an essential tool for preventing COVID-19", which sounds a bit different than your conclusion (rubber gloves and such). What gives? Judging from your comments and how you interpret those numbers, I think you do not fully understand what effectiveness is (same goes for your buddy Elvis and his 39%) and how it informs policy. Not trying to ridicule you, but since you asked for comments, here are a few.

A vaccine with 0% effectiveness against infections (and imagine the headlines, the outrage, Fauci to the gallows!) could hypothetically still be one of the best vaccines ever. For example, if it kept you out of the hospital and completely prevented transmission (incl variants) from you to other people. Ethical concerns aside, Darwinism could then run its course among those who choose to remain unvaccinated, and that would be that. The point is that a) there is a ton more that informs policy than a vaccine's effectiveness against infections, and b) you can't use effectiveness alone to push against vaccine recommendations, that would indeed be a fallacious argument.

Also, effectiveness per se is not super helpful in policy decisions, since it is a relative risk (in the paper you cite, the calculations are based on hazard ratios). What you ideally want to have are absolute risks, which are much harder to come by because they depend on many things such as the time frame we are talking about, what variants we are looking at and how transmittable they are, your environment, the prevalence of the virus, etc. So the effectiveness doesn't tell you how likely or unlikely you are to get infected, it tells you how much less likely you are to get infected relative to some comparison group over the course of the study (and that can also get dicey, more on that below). You also need some sense of absolute risk to estimate the basic reproduction number R0, which is what you really want to know for public health recommendations (if R0 is less than 1, the virus is not finding enough hosts to infect, and the incidence goes down).

I think it is reasonable to conclude from Figure 2 a in the paper you cite that it appears to get progressively harder to protect the upper respiratory tract, due to waning of antibodies (and this is where the booster shots come in). But you also have to be extremely careful with soft endpoints such as viral infections, especially when you use electronic health records. A fairly sizeable fraction of infected people are completely asymptomatic and might enter the records as never infected. That can especially change the composition of you comparison group over time, and lead to a decrease in the estimates of effectiveness (just like in Figure 2 a) even if there was no waning of antibodies and your protection didn't change. This is not trivial stuff.

Point being: when you want to communicate something about effectiveness, there is always a ton of context. It doesn't help at all to just knock out a number and amplify stuff you read somewhere without understanding the meaning of it. Be better. And dare to think for yourself.

[Villainy]

Jajajaaaaa are you referencing me?? Yes I've been there a couple times since then, and I'm pretty sure it was you that pmed me to meet up, do you seriously think I would ever meet up with a complete whackjob like you? I have met up with ISGers all over the world, but not.

Ones like you, you must be one of the goofiest members on all of ISG along with that made in China defective POS veryscaryselfharmingthoughts which I'm guessing is about 12-13 yo by the content of her posts.

If anyone reads your posts and agrees to meet up with you they belong in a damn psych ward also!!Seriously dude you need to get a grip on reality. Who are the ISGers who can confirm your presence in Colombia? Or anywhere else for that matter? I've never seen your name mentioned in someone elses post as someone they met with or hung out with. How can that me with your extensive world travelling and mongering experience? .

Go back to doing your homework and maybe after you get out of high school, you can get a job and save some money (or maybe mommy will give you a graduation present) and then instead of writing fantasy posts you can actually go someplace and get laid for the first time.

So, I'll wait for your brilliant retort about ass-licking. It seems to be your go to move. Jajajajaja.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Seriously dude you need to get a grip on reality. Who are the ISGers who can confirm your presence in Colombia? Or anywhere else for that matter? I've never seen your name mentioned in someone elses post as someone they met with or hung out with. How can that me with your extensive world travelling and mongering experience? .

Go back to doing your homework and maybe after you get out of high school, you can get a job and save some money (or maybe mommy will give you a graduation present) and then instead of writing fantasy posts you can actually go someplace and get laid for the first time.

So, I'll wait for your brilliant retort about ass-licking. It seems to be your go to move. Jajajajaja.I will bother to respond to you, since I haven't kicked your teeth in lately, you really want to run with the childish tactic of accusing someone of something no one believes is true because you are so weak, lame and desperate you have nothing else, OMG you even used bolder italics OMG (what ISG wouldn't let you use RED)? Jajajaaaaaaaaa.

Only a fool tells someone like you who they are, I gave a monger a business card in Mexico once and he was sending me emails on an acct I didn't give him and stalking my Linkedin page, never again.

We can place a large wager, ok pussy? Lets do it, how much can you afford? I'm guessing not much, hanging around with that scumbag pedophile in Laureles, did you know you can tell a lot about someone by the company they choose to keep jajajajaa scumbags are attracted to scumbags, you're such a classless monger, the bottom of the barrel variety!

You sound like a low rent govt worker of some type? Not sure what, but I'm guessing bus driver or garbage collector.

I have met mongers from all over the world, I respect their anonymity and they respect mine. This is, an anonymous website and I do have a real life (I'm guessing unlike your lame ass).

We can place a large wager that I can back up what I say and prove it, maybe you can steal some money from your grandmother?

I don't have to prove anything (but I will take your money if you want) to a worthless asslicking scumbag like you, evidenced by your choice of BMs you meet up with ala scumbag JJquasimodo spreading the Chinese virus all over MDE, and the latest scumbag pedophile to appear on ISG, that tells us everything we need to know about dirtbag V.

I suggest we find a way to place the money for a large wager in an escrow account, if not move along and get back to licking Xis and the rest of the CCPs diarrhea drenched assholes.

You worthless China loving POS.

Post-script, for starters.

The admin has access to all IP addresses when posts are made.

I can provide that as prima facie evidence of where I post from you low IQ scumbag.

Don't be a pussy your whole life, put up or STFU and stick with what you love most.

[Paulie97]

Point being: when you want to communicate something about effectiveness, there is always a ton of context. It doesn't help at all to just knock out a number and amplify stuff you read somewhere without understanding the meaning of it. Be better. And dare to think for yourself.Your whole post was excellent, but this concluding advice may be the best we have ever seen here on this subject. For example Tucker Carlson, a fuckface who refuses to reveal his vaccination status, seized the day to use the death of Colin Powell to cast doubt on vaccines. Yet he left out of his monologue the fact that Powell had cancer which greatly hinders an immune response, in spite of vaccination, all while being 84 years old. So Carlson is dishonest by omission, and his Joe six pack, angry white male fanboys allow him to do their thinking for them. This while 90% of Fox employees are vaccinated.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/18/media/colin-powell-covid-vaccines-right-wing-media/index.html

P.S. CNN, though left leaning is at least a legit news source that has raked Biden and other Democrats over the coals on many occasions. Fox though is tabloid, and guys like Carlson have plenty of blood on the hands.

[Paulie97]

Seriously dude you need to get a grip on reality. Who are the ISGers who can confirm your presence in Colombia? Or anywhere else for that matter? I've never seen your name mentioned in someone elses post as someone they met with or hung out with. How can that me with your extensive world travelling and mongering experience? .

Go back to doing your homework and maybe after you get out of high school, you can get a job and save some money (or maybe mommy will give you a graduation present) and then instead of writing fantasy posts you can actually go someplace and get laid for the first time.

So, I'll wait for your brilliant retort about ass-licking. It seems to be your go to move. Jajajajaja.He hasn't traveled any further than the length of his momma's umbilical cord. This was confirmed beyond doubt when he was caught posting a gringa's 2012 travel photos as his own.

[JustTK]

In the paper you cite the authors conclude (p1413) "Our results reiterate in a real-world US setting that vaccination with BNT162 b2 remains an essential tool for preventing COVID-19", which sounds a bit different than your conclusion (rubber gloves and such). What gives? Judging from your comments and how you interpret those numbers, I think you do not fully understand what effectiveness is (same goes for your buddy Elvis and his 39%) and how it informs policy. Not trying to ridicule you, but since you asked for comments, here are a few.
The point is that a) there is a ton more that informs policy than a vaccine's effectiveness against infections, and b) you can't use effectiveness alone to push against vaccine recommendations, that would indeed be a fallacious argument.
Point being: when you want to communicate something about effectiveness, there is always a ton of context. It doesn't help at all to just knock out a number and amplify stuff you read somewhere without understanding the meaning of it.Thanks for your reply. And great to meet someone here that can disagree without resorting to insult.

I understand well what effectiveness means. In this context it is describiing the effectiveness of the vaccine against infection. The Pfizer vax is only 47% effective against infection after 5 months. This is clearly greater than zero, but a lot less than the 88% that it started at. It says nothing about the long term ability of the vax to prevent serious illness or death.

My purpose in posting that link was to show that the vax will not prevent the spread and continued circulation of the virus, even in fully vaccinated regions. We hear every day on the news "Get vaccinated bcos this is the only way we can prevent the spread of the virus and prevent new variants from appearring". And "if you do not get vaccinated, you are causing the virus the mutate". These claims are simply false. The vax gives some protection to the vaccinated. And will help avoid short term emergency overloads at hospitals. The vax will not prevent new variants from appearring and further vaccines being required (should you choose to follow that route).

[Culture]

First, I began my journey in the land of eternal spring in 2009-2010. I have been here longer than most people. I do not post much but I can tell you newbies, to please not read or trust the writings of the person mentioned below. This is not how you should act in Medellin, not back then and not now.

I love Medellin for so many reasons. The women here are superficial, for sure. It becomes worse each year. But the weather, infrastructure, beauty of the women, mountains, short distance to so many natural areas, makes this one of the best places to visit. Not to mention its a short distance from Washington, DC. Now, I been to Brazil, I been to Germany, and all of EU. I been to Asia. I been all over. Is Medellin perfect, of course not. But each year we are complaining about something else.

Are you looking for love in Medellin? Chances are you won't find it unless you get outside the monger scene totally. Even then you will have to deal with paisa innate nature. It can be done, I've seen it first hand many of times. If you are mongering, there are so many options here, there is no reason to feel bad. Are prices going up. Yes. Why? Because there is actual inflation, there is a shortage of money, these women need money, and certain mongers who are willing to pay a bit more for good service. I have been here since August now, and I have no one flake on me yet from Facebook or otherwise. I have flaked because I didn't feel like meeting up sometime.

OK on to my report, La Isla has been trash to me. I don't know how people find these amazing women there. Don't go on Monday or Saturday is my advice. I have found in a previous trip, an amazing beautiful Colombiana, I am talking about Sofia Vegara (younger) level. She was brand new, wearing a red dress, I was standing at the bar and took her right away. Since then, I have had little to no luck finding anything worthy at La Isla. Fase Dos is much better for me. The guys there all know me and treat me well. The women there are more chill and you can find something if you want. I did notice they are starting to not like you getting their numbers, you have to be more discrete. The Vennies especially don't want to give their # in front of any bartender.

I went to that casa a lot of people talk about with the bar in Centro (Zandalay I believe). That did not disappoint. There were only 4 or 5 girls, but 3 were bangable. One was stunning, but she was taken by the guy at the bar. When me and my boy walked in, he quickly finished his beer and went out and grabbed her. Good idea cause we def would have taken her. Andrea a Vennie is very good.

Seeking Arrangements is great, and can lead to some amazing women + lays. I am talking to a girl who has visited USA right now, speaks English and its much more GFE than anything else.

If you want some regular girls, go to the malls. Some women working can be straight up bitchy but others are amazing and very easy to get #s from.

Bumble is working well here too. More and more Medellin women are joining. Of course with that, prepagos are joining as well but nothing near the level of Tinder. Speaking of Tinder, there is a 20 year old ring going on around Sabaneta, with girls forming a chica network. You will notice them with small amount of IG pictures (just enough) and also they all take pics at the same locales ie their one trip to Cartagena. I am unsure how innocent this network is. I am hoping its just a network of 20 year olds just trying to get some money for school. I have run into these networks before through various means, and it was finding a goldmine. One chick I regularly see (not a prepago or at least not the traditional type), has joined a webcam company. She has become too busy and w / my work schedule it doesn't work out but she is extremely hot. I am hoping to get the new version of her with this new network.

I'll keep you update but remember, mongering doesn't mean exploration. Mongering does not mean you have to brag and think you are better than others. Mongering doesn't mean if you didn't write about it, it didn't happen. Mongering doesn't mean you have to try to 1 up someone else. Those types of mongers are the ones you do not want to be, and I have never seen any of those actually happy. They think they're happy, but they are not. They mask their sadness and loneliness with a lot of sex that for most people would get boring and non-fufilling. It becomes an addiction to them. Don't be like these people. Learn to live in balance. Have fun and be safe.


Honestly, anything with Osteoknot I automatically skip.

Been in MDE since Aug. 23rd or so. Staying in Laureles. Most things are the same as before. Went to Gustos (meh), the other spot Lleras Park (I believe) is packed. Much more girls there so it seems to have a head to head competition. Went to La Isla on a Monday and it was slow, then went to Paradise. Energy talent is lacking. It used to be so much better. I have a regular stable of girls I talk to and they are working out well so far. One of my regulars who doesn't do this normally (or at least not in the same circles for mongers) found some job as a webcam chick. She goes to a studio in Laureles where they do shows. It is just a single show but they pay her well. Met a 23 year old from Seeking and it went well. Have a lot of other dates lined up from Seeking. I will hit up some centro casas soon. I have not been to Fase Dos since I been back but will check it out soon. Really love Repeat for brunch, the whole Provenza area has really grown. They shut down the streets and made it so there are now places to sit etc. Vintrash is a cool spot for regular girls or to take a girl. I like the 3rd floor with house. Some friends are djing at a place called Mad Radio which is near the Medellin Beer company thing. Was at Envy today, a few groups of all chicks sitting around but I was with a girl. Seen mostly American tourists.

[Mr Enternational]

Tucker Carlson, a fuckface who refuses to reveal his vaccination status, seized the day to use the death of Colin Powell to cast doubt on vaccines. Yet he left out of his monologue the fact that Powell had cancer which greatly hinders an immune response, in spite of vaccination, all while being 84 years old. So Carlson is dishonest by omissionOn this same hand, is there not a need to know how many unvaccinated people that died of covid were afflicted by other illnesses (or obesity) that would hinder an immune response? Maybe an unvaccinated "healthy" person stands an even better chance than a vaccinated person with some kind of health condition as Colin Powell, and being vaccinated will give them no advantage at all over the virus.

This info is not put out the same as Mr. Carlson did not put out that particular info on Mr. Powell. So there appears to be more than one fuckface that is holding information back that would otherwise help people make an educated or informed decision for themselves.


CNN, though left leaning is at least a legit news sourceCNN's own Dr Gupta did not think they were being a legit news source by saying Joe Rogan was taking animal drugs.

Reminds me when I was in the Navy and we would enjoy a refreshing beverage called bug juice. It was the same thing that was used as a brass cleaner. Ships full of sailors drinking brass cleaner. The Navy must be full of stupid fuckfaces.

[JustTK]

On this same hand, is there not a need to know how many unvaccinated people that died of covid were afflicted by other illnesses (or obesity) that would hinder an immune response?
CNN's own Dr Gupta did not think they were being a legit news source by saying Joe Rogan was taking animal drugs.Those stats were circulating a lot when COVID first came out. The death rate was very low for persons under 65 and with no underlying med conditions. I just had a quick look and found this paper:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8209444/

It says that death rate of people with conditions is 4 times higher than that without. Interestingly it also show the risk of men is almost twice as high as for women. This is based on confirmed cases only.

Gupta. Yeah I saw that. It was an amazing interview. Another dishonest and lying prominent health expert. That's all we need.

[Elvis 2008]

Point being: when you want to communicate something about effectiveness, there is always a ton of context. It doesn't help at all to just knock out a number and amplify stuff you read somewhere without understanding the meaning of it. Be better. And dare to think for yourself.Well, yeah. The 39% number is just laughable in the sense that a vaccine being 95% effective against a cold virus was never going to hold up because of the mutations. Fauci is off saying being vaccinated means you are 5 X less likely to be hospitalized and 11 X less likely to die, however that is comparing not what is going on recently but from the start. Yes, the vaccine worked great early on, but the latest data showed that you had to vaccinate 50 people to prevent one hospitalization and the risk of hospitalization with Covid vaccination went from 4% to 2% and doubtless it is lower now as that data is a month old now.

Looking at the vaccine data is like looking at the lockdown data in Colombia and Peru. Those countries locked down hard core, and Peru in particular had the highest death rate per capita, and it looked to me that all these hard core lockdowns did was lead to misery, death, and economic destructiveness, a finding confirmed by a Stanford study. The irony is the Stanford study could not find a developed nation that did nothing. Sweden came the closest to doing nothing and had similar outcomes to other nations studied and so the Stanford study showed that minimal Covid intervention was as good as full lockdowns.

And so here we go again. Israel had the highest vaccinated rate in the world and the highest per capita number with Covid. Two other countries, the USA and UK, are heavily vaccinated and have huge numbers of cases. The only thing that makes sense to me is the vaccine is causing disease.

But this goes against what was happening in Peru. Lockdowns work I was told and when I mentioned Peru, a paper was written by a bunch of Yale yahoos who said Peru sucks. Okay, I said but wasn't that known before Covid? And how about Colombia? There was never a good explanation given for the data Colombia and Peru had outside of the fact that lockdowns do not work.

So you are saying that we need context, we need to understand that % effectiveness is not the only way to go, and I see this is the same crap being spewed all over again. It is just now that the unvaxxed suck versus the Peruvians suck because people want to hold onto the notion that being vaxxed, like wearing a mask, like covering the hands with antibacterial goo makes them virtuous, and they care about Covid, their fellow man, and are superior even if they are not. You are not going to tell those people that such interventions are fruitless.

Time and again I see people go to other countries and see people masked outside and say "This country takes Covid way more seriously than the USA" when in fact "taking things seriously" and spreading disease IMO has never been shown to correlate. Show me a study that outdoor masking works.

Yeah, the vaccines worked great early on, and their fall from grace was completely predictable and maybe just maybe the notion that "I am vaxxed and therefore am safe" may be driving this latest wave of Covid infections.

Hey, I got making the vaccines mandatory early on. They were that great but now? Can you prove to me they even work given the latest data? Because I sure as hell do not see it.

All I see is the same bullshit I saw about lockdowns and Colombia and Peru. Lockdowns work. The vaccine works, and Elvis, you can take the data that shows it does not and go fuck yourself.

That is fine, but you do not dare call ignoring the data "science". It is politics. And this notion that "jobs come back while lives never do" is looking dumber and dumber every day now. All I see is a whole lot of lives lost and completely unnecessary economic carnage.

Paying people not to work, going into massive debt, stay home and stay safe, closing down gyms, is anyone going to own this stupidity now? Or are we just going to listen to the same fools as spouted off this other crap before?

[MarquisdeSade1]

He hasn't traveled any further than the length of his momma's umbilical cord. This was confirmed beyond doubt when he was caught posting a gringa's 2012 travel photos as his own.I don't lie here or anywhere else scumbag, I don't need to!!

You on the other hand were IMing me to warn me about visiting MDE and getting kidnapped for ransom and / or forced to make indefinite daily ATM runs jajajajaaaaaa.

You are the biggest loser on ISG to do shit like that, I would think that would get someone banned? So tell us scumbag how many members have you steered away from MDE doing that?

I guess the admin could read your PMs and find out?

Caught posting a gringas fotos? WTF are you talking about, are you another alcoholic?

What I did do is googled images for Pargue Arvi gondolla to show scumbag JJquasimodo that you can see thru the windows on them and that there are cams atop the.

Poles you lame little turd, you have nothing to attack me with so just make shit up just like JJscumbag virus spreader his butt buddy V, and scaryselfharmingthoughts.

The 4 of you scumbags have nothing to attack except making shit up like a grade schooler!! LMAO how pathetic.

You do the same thing with Elvis, how lame.

You sound like that retarded Blk atty from Seinfeld.

There was a saying whilst I was growing up in Chicago in the 1970's.

If you can't dazzle them with your brilliance then at least baffle them with BULLSHIT.

You must copy JJ the scumbag virus super spreader.

He does the same lame shit just makes up shit people didn't even say or post like he did with Elvis and try to.

Tangle them up with nonsense you are a total piece of shit.

I don't know who is worse you or him.

I can't believe the admin hasn't banned you for writing what you did to me.

This website is meant to encourage the sharing of info to strengthen the hobby.

You are the antithesis of that purpose.

You are fighting against the reason the website exists.

Anyone reading needs to know you are a vile scumbag and not to trust a fucking word he tells you in PM or in person!

[MarquisdeSade1]

I will bother to respond to you, since I haven't kicked your teeth in lately, you really want to run with the childish tactic of accusing someone of something no one believes is true because you are so weak, lame and desperate you have nothing else, OMG you even used bolder italics OMG (what ISG wouldn't let you use RED)? Jajajaaaaaaaaa.

Only a fool tells someone like you who they are, I gave a monger a business card in Mexico once and he was sending me emails on an acct I didn't give him and stalking my Linkedin page, never again.

We can place a large wager, ok pussy? Lets do it, how much can you afford? I'm guessing not much, hanging around with that scumbag pedophile in Laureles, did you know you can tell a lot about someone by the company they choose to keep jajajajaa scumbags are attracted to scumbags, you're such a classless monger, the bottom of the barrel variety!

You sound like a low rent govt worker of some type? Not sure what, but I'm guessing bus driver or garbage collector.

I have met mongers from all over the world, I respect their anonymity and they respect mine. This is, an anonymous website and I do have a real life (I'm guessing unlike your lame ass).

We can place a large wager that I can back up what I say and prove it, maybe you can steal some money from your grandmother?

I don't have to prove anything (but I will take your money if you want) to a worthless asslicking scumbag like you, evidenced by your choice of BMs you meet up with ala scumbag JJquasimodo spreading the Chinese virus all over MDE, and the latest scumbag pedophile to appear on ISG, that tells us everything we need to know about dirtbag V..I read this and was surprised I would compare this turd to bus drivers or garbage collectors, both honest ways to earn a living.

No offense was intended, again I offer my global apology to them all.

[Villainy]

I will bother to respond to you, since I haven't kicked your teeth in lately, you really want to run with the childish tactic of accusing someone of something no one believes is true because you are so weak, lame and desperate you have nothing else, OMG you even used bolder italics OMG (what ISG wouldn't let you use RED)? Jajajaaaaaaaaa.

Only a fool tells someone like you who they are, I gave a monger a business card in Mexico once and he was sending me emails on an acct I didn't give him and stalking my Linkedin page, never again.

We can place a large wager, ok pussy? Lets do it, how much can you afford? I'm guessing not much, hanging around with that scumbag pedophile in Laureles, did you know you can tell a lot about someone by the company they choose to keep jajajajaa scumbags are attracted to scumbags, you're such a classless monger, the bottom of the barrel variety!

You sound like a low rent govt worker of some type? Not sure what, but I'm guessing bus driver or garbage collector.

I have met mongers from all over the world, I respect their anonymity and they respect mine. This is, an anonymous website and I do have a real life (I'm guessing unlike your lame ass).

We can place a large wager that I can back up what I say and prove it, maybe you can steal some money from your grandmother?.OK I'm game for the wager. What would you like it to be? Why don't we pick a reasoable number that both can bring to the meeting. 5,000 US equates to 18,835,000 based on today's closing exchange rate.

So let's round it to 20 million. We'll meet at an arranged place. We'll pick a board member not connected to me. He will be the arbiter. All you have to do to take my 20 million pesos is show up with your passport and demonstrate that you've been to the places you've claimed. If your passport doesn't show those trips you lose. If it does, I lose. Pretty easy bet for you to win, kiddo.

Oh and you're right you can tell a lot about people by who they hang with. In your case no one spends any time with you on all your make-believe travels so I guess that makes you a loner who has no friends or perhaps even more likely a teenager want to-be who hasn't be outside his momma's house. C'mon. Big boy. Easy money waiting for you. Prove to everyone on the board that you are not just a bag of hot wind like everyone thinks.

Now I'll wait for the ass-licking comments that seem to be your go-to response.

[Ptrbrgr]

Thanks for your reply. And great to meet someone here that can disagree without resorting to insult.

I understand well what effectiveness means. In this context it is describiing the effectiveness of the vaccine against infection. The Pfizer vax is only 47% effective against infection after 5 months. This is clearly greater than zero, but a lot less than the 88% that it started at. It says nothing about the long term ability of the vax to prevent serious illness or death.

My purpose in posting that link was to show that the vax will not prevent the spread and continued circulation of the virus, even in fully vaccinated regions. We hear every day on the news "Get vaccinated bcos this is the only way we can prevent the spread of the virus and prevent new variants from appearring". And "if you do not get vaccinated, you are causing the virus the mutate". These claims are simply false. The vax gives some protection to the vaccinated. And will help avoid short term emergency overloads at hospitals. The vax will not prevent new variants from appearring and further vaccines being required (should you choose to follow that route).Thank you for your reply, and likewise, I also appreciate civility.

You say the purpose of your post was to convey that the vaccine will not prevent the continued circulation of the virus, and I do not have an issue with that statement. We do not know this for sure, but I agree the evidence points that way. But I also think this is not the right dichotomy to look at. With the exception of smallpox, no virus affecting humans has ever been eradicated. All others, including highly contagious ones such as polio and measles, are still with us and circulating. But we don't worry much about polio and measles in our day to day lives. Why? Because there are effective vaccines, almost everybody is vaccinated, the virus has a terrible time finding a new host, and that led to a very low prevalence in the population.

For SARS-CoV-2 to keep circulating it needs to find new hosts, and the new hosts have to be pass it on to the next person. We agree that vaccinated people are less likely to get infected than the unvaccinated (that was the effectiveness piece you cited). We also know that vaccinated people with breakthrough infections are less likely to transmit the virus to other people (that was one of the pieces missing in the story). We don't see a big difference in maximum viral load between those groups, but viral load declines much faster in vaccinated people, and they are contagious for a shorter time. Taken together, this means it is much less likely that a vaccinated person becomes part of the infection chain than an unvaccinated person. If everybody got vaccinated, the virus most likely would still be circulating as you say, but it would do so at much lower levels.

Nobody will be able to tell you exactly how big that difference is, and things are changing all the time anyways. Antibodies waning is a concern, as you noted. The results of another study in Puerto Rico were posted yesterday, and those numbers corroborate what you saw in the Lancet paper. On the other hand, the data that came out a few days ago about switching vaccines for the booster shot look fantastic. Pfizer / BioNTech have already developed a vaccine that targets the full spike protein of the more contagious delta variant. And the paper you cited shows that in contrast to infection, there has not been a noticeable decrease in effectiveness as far as people getting clinically ill is concerned. The Puerto Rico paper also compared death rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated. Instead of 2,096 deaths they would have expected if the rates were the same in both groups, they only saw 167 deaths in the vaccinated. So it is not a stretch at all to say we could push the numbers in the US to well under 100 deaths a day if everybody went with the program. You might say this still sounds like a lot, and it is. But for perspective, there are about 100 deaths in car crashes every day in the US. And people usually don't fret when they drive, because we have accepted this rate as an acceptable risk of daily life.

So in my opinion, the target is not 'no virus circulating', but being able to put a lid on the numbers and get back to something that resembles normal life. And the evidence is strong that this is possible (and might require annual booster shots, as you say).

[Ptrbrgr]

Hey, I got making the vaccines mandatory early on. They were that great but now? Can you prove to me they even work given the latest data? Because I sure as hell do not see it.Figure 2 b in the paper JustTK cited. Published October 16,2021.

[JjBee62]

OK I'm game for the wager. What would you like it to be? Why don't we pick a reasoable number that both can bring to the meeting. 5,000 US equates to 18,835,000 based on today's closing exchange rate.

So let's round it to 20 million. We'll meet at an arranged place. We'll pick a board member not connected to me. He will be the arbiter. All you have to do to take my 20 million pesos is show up with your passport and demonstrate that you've been to the places you've claimed. If your passport doesn't show those trips you lose. If it does, I lose. Pretty easy bet for you to win, kiddo.

Oh and you're right you can tell a lot about people by who they hang with. In your case no one spends any time with you on all your make-believe travels so I guess that makes you a loner who has no friends or perhaps even more likely a teenager want to-be who hasn't be outside his momma's house. C'mon. Big boy. Easy money waiting for you. Prove to everyone on the board that you are not just a bag of hot wind like everyone thinks..There are a few things in the post you responded to which are more baffling than usual. That's in addition to his offer of a wager to prove himself. After all it's only been a few months since he turned down my offer to let him prove his claims.

First, who hands out business cards to people who they don't want to contact them through the information on the card? You give them your WhatsApp and that's all they need. That's like giving your home address to a streetwalker.

The other head scratcher is how mentioning you met someone compromises their anonymity. I'd I post that I met you for lunch, we're both still just anonymous posters. Even if I name the restaurant it's no help for anyone to identify either of us.

"A couple of days ago 2 gringos ate here. One was Jjbee62 and the other was Villainy. Can you give me their full names, addresses, phone numbers and passport numbers? Did they at least leave business cards?

[BlackThought]

OK I'm game for the wager. What would you like it to be? Why don't we pick a reasoable number that both can bring to the meeting. 5,000 US equates to 18,835,000 based on today's closing exchange rate.

So let's round it to 20 million. We'll meet at an arranged place. We'll pick a board member not connected to me. He will be the arbiter. All you have to do to take my 20 million pesos is show up with your passport and demonstrate that you've been to the places you've claimed. If your passport doesn't show those trips you lose. If it does, I lose. Pretty easy bet for you to win, kiddo.

Oh and you're right you can tell a lot about people by who they hang with. In your case no one spends any time with you on all your make-believe travels so I guess that makes you a loner who has no friends or perhaps even more likely a teenager want to-be who hasn't be outside his momma's house. C'mon. Big boy. Easy money waiting for you. Prove to everyone on the board that you are not just a bag of hot wind like everyone thinks.

Now I'll wait for the ass-licking comments that seem to be your go-to response.I'd like to wager 5000 US as well. He claimed 10 weeks in BKK and 120 nights in Philippines in 2019 LOL. Lets see the passport stamps jajajaj.

[BlackThought]

There are a few things in the post you responded to which are more baffling than usual. That's in addition to his offer of a wager to prove himself. After all it's only been a few months since he turned down my offer to let him prove his claims.

First, who hands out business cards to people who they don't want to contact them through the information on the card? You give them your WhatsApp and that's all they need. That's like giving your home address to a streetwalker.

The other head scratcher is how mentioning you met someone compromises their anonymity. I'd I post that I met you for lunch, we're both still just anonymous posters. Even if I name the restaurant it's no help for anyone to identify either of us.

"A couple of days ago 2 gringos ate here. One was Jjbee62 and the other was Villainy. Can you give me their full names, addresses, phone numbers and passport numbers? Did they at least leave business cards?Everybody knows the coward is going to make up some BS excuse as to why he won't take the bet then try to change the topic by adding ass licking and CCP to the discussion. He's a cowardly loser that likely doesn't even have a passport. He lives vicariously through people's trip report / blogs.

[JustTK]

the purpose of your post was to convey that the vaccine will not prevent the continued circulation of the virus. I agree the evidence points that way. But I also think this is not the right dichotomy to look at.I agree, but it is the dishonest aim that is constantly pushed by the media. We are bombarded with the demand that we must get vaxd in order to eliminate the virus and get back to normal.


With the exception of smallpox, no virus affecting humans has ever been eradicated. All others, including highly contagious ones such as polio and measles, are still with us and circulating. But we don't worry much about polio and measles in our day to day lives. Why? Because there are effective vaccines, almost everybody is vaccinated, the virus has a terrible time finding a new host, and that led to a very low prevalence in the population.
There is a very big difference here:

Polio –99% effective, 18+ years.

Measles –96% effective, lifelong.

COVID – 39-47%, 5 minutes. Whoops! . 5 months.

No case of polio has originated in USA since the 1970's bcos the virus HAS been eliminated in the USA bcos the vas was so highly effective! 99% compared to 40%-ish. The virus WAS prevented from circulating, whereas COVID will not. COVID will always find new hosts unless pharma can get the long term effectiveness much higher. It is not the case right now. Note also: that WHO refuses vaccine licenses if the efficacy is below 50% . I wonder what the future holds for the current Pfizer vaccine.


We agree that vaccinated people are less likely to get infected than the unvaccinated..It is true but I think that is an unfair comparison. The "unvaccinated" is a pool of people – some have natural immunity, many do not. I would love to see a study that measures vaccinated against natural immunity at 6 months. Have you seen any studies on that?


the data that came out a few days ago about switching vaccines for the booster shot look fantastic.Who can say what the future will hold in terms of medical breakthroughs. But its just speculation at this stage for anyone to claim that a 3rd booster shot will have long term effectiveness. Indeed, the USA has refused to recommend it at this stage, hasn't it? Israel pushed it thru. I find it hard to believe the necessary clinical trials on long term effects were done on that. Yet, now they have vax cards that only show "fully vaxd" if they had the 3rd shot.


The Puerto Rico paper also compared death rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated. Instead of 2,096 deaths they would have expected if the rates were the same in both groups, they only saw 167 deaths in the vaccinated.
I don't dispute that the vax helps prevent deaths in the vaxd. What I dispute is that it is effective in preventing deaths in the non-vaxd – what I mean by this is – I hear the claim all the time that it is selfish to not have the vax bcos you put those immune compromised non-vaxd people at risk. Well, I don't accept that. We have to accept some level of risk in everything we do – driving cars, drinking alcohol. We can't simply claim its selfish to drive a car because it might kill old people that can't cross the road quick enough. Also the claim ignores non-vaxd people with natural immunity.

It also ignores other things that people can do in being effective against infection. I have seen studies that show vegans and vegetarians have 70% better COVID outcomes. So can I claim that everyone that eats meat is selfish bcos they present a higher risk to the non-vaxd? No. That road is a very complicated one to travel with many on and off ramps. But I don't see a rational difference between claiming non-vaxd are immoral whereas meat eaters are not.


So in my opinion, the target is not 'no virus circulating', but being able to put a lid on the numbers and get back to something that resembles normal life. And the evidence is strong that this is possible (and might require annual booster shots, as you say).I agree that's the target. I just don't think vaxs are necessary. The virus is not dangerous enough to healthy people, and I believe we can develop effective natural immunity and take other measures (such as diet) to prevent overloading health systems with infections.

And I am sick of hearing this "shaming" attitude by pro-vaxers that think they are saving the world, when there is clearly a whole lot missing from that line of thinking.

[Ptrbrgr]

There is a very big difference here:

Polio 99% effective, 18+ years.

Measles 96% effective, lifelong.

COVID 39-47%, 5 minutes. Whoops! . 5 months.

No case of polio has originated in USA since the 1970's bcos the virus HAS been eliminated in the USA bcos the vas was so highly effective! 99% compared to 40%-ish. The virus WAS prevented from circulating, whereas COVID will not. COVID will always find new hosts unless pharma can get the long term effectiveness much higher. It is not the case right now. Note also: that WHO refuses vaccine licenses if the efficacy is below 50% . I wonder what the future holds for the current Pfizer vaccine.You hit the nail on the head! I think it is fair to say that polio has been eradicated in the US. But this is not solely because of the super-high effectiveness of the vaccine, it is because of the effectiveness of the vaccine in combination with the fact that virtually everybody is vaccinated. If the vaccination rate would only be 70% say, the first polio-infected traveler to the US under all probability would start the next outbreak. I agree, with SARS-CoV-2 we will never get down to these low prevalences. But as long as the vaccines have some effectiveness in preventing infection and / or transmission, it is a fact that higher vaccination rates mean less circulation, less disease, fewer things to worry about. And the verdict is still out whether or not some local herd immunity can be achieved. If R0 in some place like New Zealand can permanently be dropped to less than 1, then the answer is yes. It doesn't mean the virus is eradicated, it simply means there aren't a ton of transmissions and things are not getting out of hand.


It is true but I think that is an unfair comparison. The "unvaccinated" is a pool of people some have natural immunity, many do not. I would love to see a study that measures vaccinated against natural immunity at 6 months. Have you seen any studies on that?Absolutely agree. But I think you might be shooting yourself in the foot a bit as far as your argument is concerned. If you were to take out the previously infected from the comparison group, the (relative) benefits for the vaccinated would be even larger.

But to answer your question: I am not aware of a definitive answer either. There are a bunch of lab studies reporting what happens on the molecular level, but that doesn't necessarily translate into real life outcomes, and I imagine it will be tricky to get an accurate estimate from epidemiological studies because of the survivor bias, for one. The vaccine doesn't kill you, but the virus may well do so. If you had a virus that would kill people unless they were Superman, then comparing outcomes between vaccinated and previously infected would likely show much better outcomes for the previously infected, because they are all like Superman. You don't have to be Superman to survive a SARS-CoV-2 infection, but it tends to kill the most vulnerable, so the survivors on average are younger, fitter, etc.

There is of course the infamous study from Israel our buddy Elvis was peddling, where the authors found that vaccinated people had a 13-fold increase in infection risk compared to people with a previous natural infection, and the odds of hospitalization were eight times higher (no joke). However, anyone who knows a bit about the field and looks at it for five minutes sees more red flags in this short pre-print than you see in Havana on May Day. There mere fact that the levels of a factor they matched on showed odds ratios of 161 (with upper confidence interval bound of 1300!) did not stop them at all ploughing forward. The study design and approach were so deeply flawed it would have been funny, except for all the nonsense being propagated.


I don't dispute that the vax helps prevent deaths in the vaxd. What I dispute is that it is effective in preventing deaths in the non-vaxd what I mean by this is I hear the claim all the time that it is selfish to not have the vax bcos you put those immune compromised non-vaxd people at risk. Well, I don't accept that. We have to accept some level of risk in everything we do driving cars, drinking alcohol. We can't simply claim its selfish to drive a car because it might kill old people that can't cross the road quick enough. Also the claim ignores non-vaxd people with natural immunity.I am 100% with you on having to accept some risks in real life. But maybe consider the following. One of my buddies was diagnosed with ALS. If he catches the virus, it will be bad news. He is vaccinated, but it is unclear whether he was able to produce enough antibodies to have a realistic chance to fight off an infection. He could go into complete isolation, but if you only have a bit of time left on the clock, that doesn't sound very appealing. So he still hangs out with his friends, and we do accept that there is some risk. I know I decrease the risk of him getting infected by being vaccinated. By how much I do not know, but I know the difference is not zero. This is the least bit I think I can do for him. The dad of another friend is battling cancer, and if he gets infected, the outcome will be the same as it was for Colin Powell. So my friend has to be super careful. What kind of friendship would that be if I thought getting a pinch in the arm was too much trouble, especially under those circumstances? You might say there isn't anyone in your circle who is at high risk. But if the two of us were to hang out some time in Medellin over a cup of coffee or a beer to discuss this, you would be two contacts away from my buddy with ALS. That's how fast that goes. So even if there was nothing in it for me, in my opinion (emphasize, opinion), getting vaccinated is an ethical imperative as a human being. I am not saying you are an unethical person, but I would like to encourage you to give this reasoning some thought.


It also ignores other things that people can do in being effective against infection. I have seen studies that show vegans and vegetarians have 70% better COVID outcomes. So can I claim that everyone that eats meat is selfish bcos they present a higher risk to the non-vaxd? No. That road is a very complicated one to travel with many on and off ramps. But I don't see a rational difference between claiming non-vaxd are immoral whereas meat eaters are not.I can imagine that diet is associated with COVID health outcomes, because diet is related to a bunch of risk factors and co-morbidities, and these are what we believe put people at risk. And diet is a modifiable variable. So I take your point is that the vaccinated overweight couch potato has no business giving the unvaccinated Ironman shit. This argument is not easily dismissed, I agree. That said, I could still come up with reasons why the Ironman should get a vaccine nonetheless.


I agree that's the target. I just don't think vaxs are necessary. The virus is not dangerous enough to healthy people, and I believe we can develop effective natural immunity and take other measures (such as diet) to prevent overloading health systems with infections.Every bug will run its course, and eventually drop to some equilibrium, at least for a while. Marcus Aurelius got knocked out of the saddle by what we believe was smallpox, and it must have been some sucky times back then, because there were recurrences of the virus for more than 100 years. The medieval plague (not a virus, but still plenty bad) in Europe claimed about 100 million lives and lasted for five years. I think we all what this current pandemic to end. What we disagree about is how we quantify 'damage' (health, social, economic) and what the best strategy is to minimize that damage. But here is a simple thought experiment: assume you have two populations that are identical in demographics, genetic background, socioeconomics, everything. In one population everybody agrees to take a vaccine that is safe and shows some effectiveness, in the other population this is not the case. Can you describe a set of circumstances where the fully vaccinated would be worse off than the not fully vaccinated if the same policies were implemented?

[JustTK]

You hit the nail on the head! I think it is fair to say that polio has been eradicated in the US. Its good that we can have this conversation. I want to think about the thought experiment you posed at the end. But in the meantime I wanted to make a couple of comments:

"One of my buddies was diagnosed with ALS. ".

What about my buddy who has learning difficiculties. If I let him out in to the streets alone, there is a good chance he will get run over. Shall we ban cars so that we can protect him and others like him?

(This is a totally inviented hypothetical BTW. I am just trying to identify if there is any material difference between the scenarios.).

Or here's another. Some people are allergic to bee stings. Shall we eradicate all bees from urban areas to protect them?

There are always situations where some people are at greater risk than others. Is it fair to make the mitigation of their risk encumbent upon others?

The second thing I want to say is that I think Marcus Aurelius was one of the greatest. Superb thinker amd moralist for his time.

[JustTK]

here is a simple thought experiment: assume you have two populations that are identical in demographics, genetic background, socioeconomics, everything. In one population everybody agrees to take a vaccine that is safe and shows some effectiveness, in the other population this is not the case. Can you describe a set of circumstances where the fully vaccinated would be worse off than the not fully vaccinated if the same policies were implemented?Yes, I can think of 2.

1. Everything has an opportunity cost. So if the financial costs associated with developing and administering the vaccines outweigh the benefits then the net effect would be negative.

2. If the social and / or psychological fallout of the vax program outweighs the benefits. So let's say some people suffer trauma from being forced in to having a vax, realizing that they are living in an authoritarian state where their freedom of choice has been taken away.

On a personal note, I have mentioned here before but not to you directly, I am against taking the vax. This is bcos I am anti-vivisection and I do not want to support industries that conduct animal testing. Many people argue that animal testing is necessary, but that is neither true nor would it be persuasive. Pharma tests on animals bcos it is cheap and bcos it is legal. If we took away that right, they would use other methods to obtain the same information. Proof of this lies in the recent history of animal testing in the cosmetics industry. For decades cosmetics companies argued it was necessary. When the EU finally stopped listening to their lies and banned it, they switched to other methods and there have been no negative medical issues since. Further I do not believe we have the moral right to subject a non-consenting sentient being to be tortured for the benefit of others. Imagine if we took your child or wife (or whoever you love) and did the same thing. I am therefore not an anti-vaxer per se, rather I am an anti-animal-tested-vaxer.

I must say that I have enjoyed this back and forth. You have presented your arguments eloquently and provided context that I hadn't really considered before. I hope I did a reasonable job of supporting my position too.

[Villainy]

On a personal note, I have mentioned here before but not to you directly, I am against taking the vax. This is bcos I am anti-vivisection and I do not want to support industries that conduct animal testing. Many people argue that animal testing is necessary, but that is neither true nor would it be persuasive. Pharma tests on animals bcos it is cheap and bcos it is legal. If we took away that right, they would use other methods to obtain the same information. Proof of this lies in the recent history of animal testing in the cosmetics industry. For decades cosmetics companies argued it was necessary. When the EU finally stopped listening to their lies and banned it, they switched to other methods and there have been no negative medical issues since. Further I do not believe we have the moral right to subject a non-consenting sentient being to be tortured for the benefit of others. Imagine if we took your child or wife (or whoever you love) and did the same thing. I am therefore not an anti-vaxer per se, rather I am an anti-animal-tested-vaxer...Let's take your "approach" and play it out just a little, shall we? Let's say everyone in the world was just like you. Oh wait. There wouldn't be a world because small-pox, polio, and every other plague known to man would have decimated the world's population to near nothingness. I'm sure you're consistent. Right? So to stand by what you call your principles, you must not take any medications whatsoever. Afterall we can't do anything to support the pharmaceutical companies. Right? I also assume given your principles that you don't step on spiders or swat flies or smack mosquitoes right?

You must be a vegan or maybe just a vegetarian? I am BTW. So why spend your time rationalizing the avoidance of a vaccine that is saving millions of lives, when you would use your energy to attack the food factories that torture and abuse animals in order to make oversized profits and generally damage the health of the end users?

If you really wanted to do some good you would make generous and extra generous donations to PETA or similar organizations, instead of tilting at windmills. Oh and I'm sure you're aware that animal testing is disappearing rapidly given the advances in technology which have led to the cloning of human cells for use in testing.

BTW I didn't see the need to call you names. I strongly disagree with most of what you say but we can disagree as adults without resorting to childish insults, right Elvis and MarquisdeSade1?

[JustTK]

Let's take your "approach" and play it out just a little, shall we? Let's say everyone in the world was just like you. Oh wait. There wouldn't be a world because small-pox, polio, and every other plague known to man would have decimated the world's population to near nothingness.
You must be a vegan or maybe just a vegetarian? I am BTW. So why spend your time rationalizing the avoidance of a vaccine that is saving millions of lives, when you would use your energy to attack the food factories that torture and abuse animals in order to make oversized profits and generally damage the health of the end users?
If you really wanted to do some good you would make generous and extra generous donations to PETA or similar organizations, instead of tilting at windmills. Oh and I'm sure you're aware that animal testing is disappearing rapidly given the advances in technology which have led to the cloning of human cells for use in testing.
BTW I didn't see the need to call you names. I strongly disagree with most of what you say but we can disagree as adults without resorting to childish insults, right Elvis and MarquisdeSade1?No, you didn't insult me. But you did strawman my position and loaded your response w a heavy dose of sarcasm. (shrug) No worries, I have broad shoulders.

If everyone adopted my approach. Pharma would produce medicines that have not been tested on animals, so no extra diseases would exist. The world would be populated with just as many healthy people, but with more happy animals. Hehe. As you agree, animal testing is going to become a thing of the past.

I am a vegan, and I do dedicate my time to veganism. I am a vegan activist and I run a popular vegan website directory (volunteer work for 15+ years). My business donates to PETA, various shark alliances and seahorse conservancies. Thanks for the advise though.

[JjBee62]

Its good that we can have this conversation. I want to think about the thought experiment you posed at the end. But in the meantime I wanted to make a couple of comments:

"One of my buddies was diagnosed with ALS. ".

What about my buddy who has learning difficiculties. If I let him out in to the streets alone, there is a good chance he will get run over. Shall we ban cars so that we can protect him and others like him?

(This is a totally inviented hypothetical BTW. I am just trying to identify if there is any material difference between the scenarios.).

Or here's another. Some people are allergic to bee stings. Shall we eradicate all bees from urban areas to protect them?

There are always situations where some people are at greater risk than others. Is it fair to make the mitigation of their risk encumbent upon others?

The second thing I want to say is that I think Marcus Aurelius was one of the greatest. Superb thinker amd moralist for his time.I'm sure others will point this out to you, but neither learning disabilities, nor bee stings are contagious. If your hypothetical friend is hit by a car, the driver isn't going to infect everyone he comes in contact with, with learning disabilities. That only happens at political rallies.

Instead try this:

Last year I had strep throat while in Medellin. The girl who transmitted it to me, admitted afterwards she had been sick, but didn't want to miss seeing me (or seeing my money). With antibiotics, strep has a contagious period of about 24 hours if you take antibiotics, about 2 weeks without antibiotics.

Should everyone else stay home for 2 weeks to prevent infection because I don't want to take antibiotics? Or should I either take antibiotics and stay home for a day, or for 2 weeks if I choose not to take the antibiotics?

It's not an entirely accurate analogy, but at least it's a discussion of relatable situations.

With strep throat at least it's usually easy to know what you have. So going out, or taking antibiotics is pretty clear cut decision. With Covid there's a good chance you have no idea whether or not you're contagious, or whether someone else is. Some cases are mild enough nobody considers being tested. Some people believe they have a complete natural immunity (which hasn't been tested). In some cases none of the symptoms match up with what anyone expects and Covid isn't considered a possibility, which is what happened to me.

There's also the problem of not knowing the risk for the people infected by the people who you might infect.

[Mr Enternational]

On a personal note, I have mentioned here before but not to you directly, I am against taking the vax. This is bcos I am anti-vivisection and I do not want to support industries that conduct animal testing.I am not anti-vax. I am anti hypocritical bullshit. My country has a history of preaching one thing and practicing another. You better not have slaves and treat people bad, meanwhile we are over here with slaves and treating people bad. Where did Adolf Hitler say he got his way of doing things? He just followed the example of America.

They fill the population with BS to get them to do what they want. Why is it not mandatory for the mfs that are making laws for everyone to be vaccinated to be vaccinated themselves? That is some red flag do what we say and not what we do stuff to me.

Why was everybody heros for going out bravely working during the pandemic when there was no vaccine to speak of, and now those same people are billed as selfish pieces of shit not even worthy of having a job when they want to forego taking the vaccine and risking their own lives same as before? Same as me being a military veteran. Thanks for your service to the country, but fuck you you do not deserve shit because you don't want to take a vaccine.

This kind of shit just gets my goat. I am called free as long as I am doing what you are making me do. The minute I no longer want to follow the path that I am pushed into, freedom REVOKED! The pandemic has definitely shown me that this freedom rhetoric is definitely a sham.

[John Clayton]

...I am called free as long as I am doing what you are making me do. The minute I no longer want to follow the path that I am pushed into, freedom REVOKED! The pandemic has definitely shown me that this freedom rhetoric is definitely a sham.I have the same reaction at being told what to do (maybe we all do). It certainly applies to anything my wife tells me to do, or on the occasions that someone has threatened to sue me or punch me unless I obeyed them, my inclination is to resist. However, as I'm sure you will admit, it clearly can be a non productive reaction. Especially in the case of these (mRNA) vaccines (and I'm speaking as a medical doctor with a backround in public health):

1) The vaccines are amazing. Almost 3 billion people have been fully vaccinated and the adverse effects have been more closely monitored than any drug or vaccine in history. They are incredibly safe and amazingly (in the case of the mRNA vaccines) effective.

2) The vaccines make your immune system stronger. They make you a stronger human being.

3) For all our beliefs about free will, individualism, etc, really, we are part of humanity. This is not just about our personal health. We prosper when humanity prospers. When this disease appeared, we had the brief opportunity to join with all other humans in all other countries and crush it completely out of existance. That's what we did with SARS 1. It is clearly in our interest that we vaccinate as many people on earth. That includes all the poor parts of Africa, Asia, South America -- because it's in our interest. Look at how dead this site has been for the last twenty months -- we want to travel freely and party in Thailand, or the DR, we clearly want this disease to be beaten into submission. We should be paying for the vaccines there because it is good for us. I know we like to believe we are independent, but really, from an epidemiological point of view, we need to protect everyone to protect ourselves.

I don't hate those cops and firemen who are refusing the vaccine on the grounds of "personal freedom", I just think they're being incredibly stupid. They are victims of this pernicious anti-vaccine propaganda, which is being promulgated by the right wing for purely political reasons.

[MarquisdeSade1]

I have the same reaction at being told what to do (maybe we all do). It certainly applies to anything my wife tells me to do, or on the occasions that someone has threatened to sue me or punch me unless I obeyed them, my inclination is to resist. However, as I'm sure you will admit, it clearly can be a non productive reaction. Especially in the case of these (mRNA) vaccines (and I'm speaking as a medical doctor with a backround in public health):

1) The vaccines are amazing. Almost 3 billion people have been fully vaccinated and the adverse effects have been more closely monitored than any drug or vaccine in history. They are incredibly safe and amazingly (in the case of the mRNA vaccines) effective.

2) The vaccines make your immune system stronger. They make you a stronger human being.

3) For all our beliefs about free will, individualism, etc, really, we are part of humanity. This is not just about our personal health. We prosper when humanity prospers. When this disease appeared, we had the brief opportunity to join with all other humans in all other countries and crush it completely out of existance. That's what we did with SARS 1. It is clearly in our interest that we vaccinate as many people on earth. That includes all the poor parts of Africa, Asia, South America -- because it's in our interest. Look at how dead this site has been for the last twenty months -- we want to travel freely and party in Thailand, or the DR, we clearly want this disease to be beaten into submission. We should be paying for the vaccines there because it is good for us. I know we like to believe we are independent, but really, from an epidemiological point of view, we need to protect everyone to protect ourselves.

I don't hate those cops and firemen who are refusing the vaccine on the grounds of "personal freedom", I just think they're being incredibly stupid. They are victims of this pernicious anti-vaccine propaganda, which is being promulgated by the right wing for purely political reasons.https://amgreatness.com/2021/10/17/live-free-or-die-why-medical-autonomy-matters/

[LoveItHere69]

Especially in the case of these (mRNA) vaccines (and I'm speaking as a medical doctor with a background in public health).Oh, wonderful doctors who created the super bacteria by prescribing antibiotics for everything, even a scratch. Doctors give antibiotics for the flu, and yet the flu is a virus not a bacteria. The flu can cause other problems which do require antibiotics. I have talked to several nurses about this and they say the doctor gives the fussy parent the antibiotic as a placebo just to get the parent and the kid out the door. Kids lose their teeth all the time with no problems. Now dentists hand out antibiotics for that. I never had an infection from a pulled or lost tooth.

The reason doctors are always late is that they are busy talking to pharmaceutical sales representatives in the hallway between patients. My cousin was a new pharmaceutical sales representative 20 years ago. He was given a company credit card with $35,000 to spend on the receptionist, nurses, and doctors on flowers, food, etc. He could get in trouble if he did not spend the money. Pharma buying doctors and ethics there. Does the opioid crisis ring a bell?

Doctors implanting basketball sized silicone boobs. That even defies all sense of logic. Doctors take several ethics classes so how the hell do silicone boobs even exist in the first place?

Doctors have no common sense now like in the days of the past. The doctors used to ask tons of questions to help solve the problem. Now the doctor asks maybe 3 questions and then it is off to get a ton of X-rays, crap and urine tests, and a whole plethora of blood tests. I would take a doctor practicing in the 60's, 70's, or 80's before any of the current doctors out there.

[JustTK]

My country has a history of preaching one thing and practicing another.
I am called free as long as I am doing what you are making me do. The minute I no longer want to follow the path that I am pushed into, freedom REVOKED! The pandemic has definitely shown me that this freedom rhetoric is definitely a sham."We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy. " ― Chris Hedges.

[The Cane]

Where did Adolf Hitler say he got his way of doing things? He just followed the example of America.And that of the Ottomans regarding the Armenians.

[Huacho]

I hope I did a reasonable job of supporting my position too.I would probably want you on my debate team (as long as we did not physically have to be in the same room) because you were able to come up with some ideas to support a position that is just plain unsustainable, wrong, and dangerous. Your analogies in your prior post were completely ridiculous because learning disabled people getting run over is not contagious and viruses ARE. But you don't care about who you infect as all your arguments are based on what's best for YOU and your fringy beliefs about vivisection and whatnot.

[Fun Luvr]

I don't hate those cops and firemen who are refusing the vaccine on the grounds of "personal freedom", I just think they're being incredibly stupid. They are victims of this pernicious anti-vaccine propaganda, which is being promulgated by the right wing for purely political reasons.Please list any member of the "right-wing" who is advocating for others to not get vaccinated. As for politics, this is what Kamala Harris said about the vaccine in the Vice Presidential debate in October of last year "If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it.".

[JjBee62]

Oh, wonderful doctors who created the super bacteria by prescribing antibiotics for everything, even a scratch. Doctors give antibiotics for the flu, and yet the flu is a virus not a bacteria. The flu can cause other problems which do require antibiotics. I have talked to several nurses about this and they say the doctor gives the fussy parent the antibiotic as a placebo just to get the parent and the kid out the door. Kids lose their teeth all the time with no problems. Now dentists hand out antibiotics for that. I never had an infection from a pulled or lost tooth.

The reason doctors are always late is that they are busy talking to pharmaceutical sales representatives in the hallway between patients. My cousin was a new pharmaceutical sales representative 20 years ago. He was given a company credit card with $35,000 to spend on the receptionist, nurses, and doctors on flowers, food, etc. He could get in trouble if he did not spend the money. Pharma buying doctors and ethics there. Does the opioid crisis ring a bell?

Doctors implanting basketball sized silicone boobs. That even defies all sense of logic. Doctors take several ethics classes so how the hell do silicone boobs even exist in the first place?

Doctors have no common sense now like in the days of the past. The doctors used to ask tons of questions to help solve the problem. Now the doctor asks maybe 3 questions and then it is off to get a ton of X-rays, crap and urine tests, and a whole plethora of blood tests. I would take a doctor practicing in the 60's, 70's, or 80's before any of the current doctors out there.I have 3 doctors, a family practice doctor and 2 specialists. I've never had one of them be late. My last visit I was called in before I could fill out the questionnaire, and I had arrived 20 minutes early. Each of them ask several questions and take the time to discuss my condition, treatment and where we are headed.

I've had doctors like you described, but I replace any who don't meet my needs.

As for why there are silicone implants, I know of one reason. My wife had a double radical mastectomy. Which means her breasts were completely removed. She was given implants, which allowed her to retain her feminine shape.

If you want to go off on a rant, why don't you mention ED drugs, hair loss drugs and therapies and all the rest?

[JjBee62]

I am not anti-vax. I am anti hypocritical bullshit. My country has a history of preaching one thing and practicing another. You better not have slaves and treat people bad, meanwhile we are over here with slaves and treating people bad. Where did Adolf Hitler say he got his way of doing things? He just followed the example of America.

They fill the population with BS to get them to do what they want. Why is it not mandatory for the mfs that are making laws for everyone to be vaccinated to be vaccinated themselves? That is some red flag do what we say and not what we do stuff to me.

Why was everybody heros for going out bravely working during the pandemic when there was no vaccine to speak of, and now those same people are billed as selfish pieces of shit not even worthy of having a job when they want to forego taking the vaccine and risking their own lives same as before? Same as me being a military veteran. Thanks for your service to the country, but fuck you you do not deserve shit because you don't want to take a vaccine..Some thoughts about your rant.

If you do some checking you will find many who are supporting vaccination posted publicly when they were vaccinated. But to turn it around why is it acceptable for someone who got the vaccine to urge people to not get vaccinated. I believe you'll find that is much more common than what you suggested.

Maybe there were some drastic changes between when I served and when you served. When I was in boot camp. They didn't ask me how I wanted my hair cut, didn't ask what style of uniforms I wanted to wear and didn't ask which vaccines I wanted. They didn't even tell me which vaccines I was receiving. They also didn't ask if my wisdom teeth were causing me any problem. They just told me they were going to remove them. So the idea that members of the military should be allowed to make decisions about vaccines is completely foreign to me.

When you swear the oath, you hand your balls to the government, knowing they are under no obligation to return them.

Most people don't understand freedom. What they want instead of freedom, which you already have, is freedom from consequences. Anything you can imagine you have the freedom to attempt. However, others and society have the freedom to halt your attempt, or impose consequences. The consequences are often not equitably applied, but they are there.

You're free not to get vaccinated, but like everything else, there may be consequences. Just about everywhere has rules about acceptable behavior, acceptable speech, acceptable clothing, even acceptable extracurricular activities. If you're on a flight bound for Barranquilla and it turns around because some passenger is exercising his freedom which is against airline regulations, are you going to be mad at the airline for restricting freedom, or at the guy who started screaming about having to wear a mask?

A white supervisor at my company was just fired this week for a remark he made to a black employee. I didn't witness the exchange, and I don't know if his meaning was racist, but what he said certainly qualifies as racist language. What are your thoughts about his freedom?

One final not. Didn't you post something about using someone else's Covid test results, and about faking a vaccination card? I either fundamentally different from someone who is unvaccinated mandating vaccination?

[JustTK]

Please list any member of the "right-wing" who is advocating for others to not get vaccinated. As for politics, this is what Kamala Harris said about the vaccine in the Vice Presidential debate in October of last year "If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it.".Tucker Carlson is one. To anyone outsdie the USA, Kamala Harris is also right wing. And Joe Biden. They certainly lie like right wingers.

[MarquisdeSade1]

"We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy. " ― Chris Hedges.Chris Hedges is a very intelligent writer.

[MarquisdeSade1]

I am not anti-vax. I am anti hypocritical bullshit. My country has a history of preaching one thing and practicing another. You better not have slaves and treat people bad, meanwhile we are over here with slaves and treating people bad. Where did Adolf Hitler say he got his way of doing things? He just followed the example of America.

They fill the population with BS to get them to do what they want. Why is it not mandatory for the mfs that are making laws for everyone to be vaccinated to be vaccinated themselves? That is some red flag do what we say and not what we do stuff to me.

Why was everybody heros for going out bravely working during the pandemic when there was no vaccine to speak of, and now those same people are billed as selfish pieces of shit not even worthy of having a job when they want to forego taking the vaccine and risking their own lives same as before? Same as me being a military veteran. Thanks for your service to the country, but fuck you you do not deserve shit because you don't want to take a vaccine.

This kind of shit just gets my goat. I am called free as long as I am doing what you are making me do. The minute I no longer want to follow the path that I am pushed into, freedom REVOKED! The pandemic has definitely shown me that this freedom rhetoric is definitely a sham.https://amgreatness.com/2021/10/22/los-angeles-psychiatrist-says-covid-policies-are-not-about-health-theyre-about-authoritarian-control/

[JjBee62]

Please list any member of the "right-wing" who is advocating for others to not get vaccinated. As for politics, this is what Kamala Harris said about the vaccine in the Vice Presidential debate in October of last year "If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I'll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I'm not taking it.".I'll just list one: Rand Paul.

As for your closing comment, let me put it into perspective. If your local garbage collector tells you that you need to have a double bypass surgery, are you going to rush to the hospital to schedule the surgery? Or would you take the advice of a cardiologist over the advice of a garbage collector on matters of cardiology? Take all the time you need to think it over.

Has the light bulb clicked on yet?

If you go back and read your quote here's what it boils down to:

If Fauci said get the vaccine and Trump said don't get the vaccine, she would have gotten the vaccine. If Fauci said get the vaccine and Trump said get the vaccine, she would have gotten the vaccine. If both said don't get the vaccine, she wouldn't have gotten the vaccine. However, if Fauci said don't get the vaccine, but Trump said get the vaccine, she would have taken the advice of someone who is recognized around the world as one of the foremost experts over someone with zero credentials.

Does that seem wrong to you? Because it seems perfectly normal to me.

If the advice of someone who knows absolutely nothing about a subject runs contrary to the advice of all the experts on the subject, it doesn't seem difficult to decide which path to take. If all the experts on the subject give advice, do you wait to find out if the person who knows nothing on the subject agrees, before making a decision?

And it doesn't matter to me whether the advice comes from a Republican or Democrat. I refuse to consider medical advice from someone who is not qualified over someone who is qualified.

[BlackThought]

https://amgreatness.com/2021/10/17/live-free-or-die-why-medical-autonomy-matters/What's the matter coward? Don't have a passport to prove your extensive mongering experience? Jajaj LOL. You've gotten exposed and ran out of the threads lmao. Haven't seen anything so pathetic jajaj.

[PVMonger]

---SNIP--- Same as me being a military veteran.Were you "forced" to get vaccinated during basic training? Was every recruit? Did they have a choice?

[The Cane]

Most people don't understand freedom. What they want instead of freedom, which you already have, is freedom from consequences. Anything you can imagine you have the freedom to attempt. However, others and society have the freedom to halt your attempt, or impose consequences. The consequences are often not equitably applied, but they are there. You're free not to get vaccinated, but like everything else, there may be consequences.Amen brother! What I often say is that it isn't "freedom" that some people are talking about, but rather "license" (the ability to act with wantonness or disregard). People (especially Americans) are quick to assert their rights, but not too quick to acknowledge their obligations. They're all about freedom of self-expression, but have little time for self-restraint. It's all about them and what they want to do (or not do) when and where and how. But you know what? If you don't want to get vaccinated? Fine. But, you're not going to have your cake and eat it too. There will be consequences. You don't get to travel and / or you have restrictions placed upon you that the vaccinated traveler doesn't face. Don't want to vaccinate your kids either? OK, then they don't get to go to school. And when you get up tomorrow morning? You just may not have a job to go to that pays your bills. Consequences! Do as you please. But you best be prepared to accept the consequences. Far too many people aren't. They want to have their cake and eat it too. Nope! When it comes to fighting COVID, we're done with that. Get vaxxed or get axed! As they say in Thailand, up to you.

[JustTK]

Hear hear .... awesome quoteThat's 2 friendly replies in one day. Whats wrong w you? Were you drunk? Hehe.

[JustTK]

What I often say is that it isn't "freedom" that some people are talking about, but rather "license" (the ability to act with wantonness or disregard). People (especially Americans) are quick to assert their rights, but not too quick to acknowledge their obligations. They're all about freedom of self-expression, but have little time for self-restraint. It's all about them and what they want to do (or not do) when and where and how.Freedom is a very broad subject. I see little point on criticising or objecting to someone else's interpretation of it unless it is clear in what sense they are referring to it. One could mean freedom of choice, freedom of expression, of movement, from prison. There are countless ways in which we can discuss freedom.

A great example of it is when I discuss politics with liberals or conservatives. Typically they insist that they would hate to live under communism or socialism bcos it would take away their freedom. BUt, apart from that being a complete misunderstanding of both communism or socialism, I typcially respond with. So when we consider freedom, we cannot simply think of our own personal liberty, we need to consider that of society as well, because it is a part of us; it is who we are. There is no freedom in notions of exploitation, individualisation and atomisation. Freedom is found in egalitarianism, in the common good of constructing an ideal world for all sentient beings.

"To be free is not merely to cast off one's own chains, but to live in a way that respects and enhances the freedom of others". Nelson Mandela.

So I think first we need to understand well what freedom we are talking about.

[The Cane]

So I think first we need to understand well what freedom we are talking about.Nice discourse LOL. But here, it's quite plain to see what we're talking about. That would be the freedom to choose whether to be vaccinated against COVID or not. That's what we're talking about. In case anybody didn't know.

[Mr Enternational]

Maybe there were some drastic changes between when I served and when you served. When I was in boot camp. They didn't ask me how I wanted my hair cut, didn't ask what style of uniforms I wanted to wear and didn't ask which vaccines I wanted. They didn't even tell me which vaccines I was receiving. They also didn't ask if my wisdom teeth were causing me any problem. They just told me they were going to remove them. So the idea that members of the military should be allowed to make decisions about vaccines is completely foreign to me.

When you swear the oath, you hand your balls to the government, knowing they are under no obligation to return them.I was saying that the general public will give you accolades for serving in the military then on the other hand those same people will tell those same veterans they are not shit if they don't want to get the vaccine. Which is it? Am I the best ever, or am I a piece of shit? Or does it just depend on which side of the issue I stand on at the moment? Same as everyone was labeled heros and essential workers this time last year. Now if those same people don't want the vaccine they don't even deserve to feed their families; fired!

[Mr Enternational]

If the advice of someone who knows absolutely nothing about a subject runs contrary to the advice of all the experts on the subject, it doesn't seem difficult to decide which path to take. If all the experts on the subject give advice, do you wait to find out if the person who knows nothing on the subject agrees, before making a decision?So if you worked at Enron and Ken Lay told you to put 20% in your 401 K...Or you were on Apollo 13 and the engineers said all systems go...

[Mr Enternational]

Most people don't understand freedom. What they want instead of freedom, which you already have, is freedom from consequences. Anything you can imagine you have the freedom to attempt. However, others and society have the freedom to halt your attempt, or impose consequences. The consequences are often not equitably applied, but they are there.True. There used to be something called redlining in the USA where when Black people thought they were free to buy houses anywhere they wanted, there were certain White people that exercised the freedom to halt their attempt. And there were other cases where some would just come burn them out if nothing else worked.

[Paulie97]

I was saying that the general public will give you accolades for serving in the military then on the other hand those same people will tell those same veterans they are not shit if they don't want to get the vaccine. Which is it? Am I the best ever, or am I a piece of shit? Or does it just depend on which side of the issue I stand on at the moment? Same as everyone was labeled heros and essential workers this time last year. Now if those same people don't want the vaccine they don't even deserve to feed their families; fired!There's no end to your faulty reasoning, this time creating a fake distinction followed by a question which is a fake dilemma. Essential workers were typically required by governments or private employers to wear masks, as the same were proven to slow the spread of a deadly and destructive virus. And now that the vaccines are proven to do likewise, the same applies. Really simple, but you are a selfish crybaby, promoting nonsense that is costing lives, that doesn't deserve to feed your family, but hopefully someone else will.

[Paulie97]

So if you worked at Enron and Ken Lay told you to put 20% in your 401 K...Or you were on Apollo 13 and the engineers said all systems go...What the hell does this have to do with the price of fish oil in Thailand? The data is in. Vaccinations reduce infections and contagion and thus spread. You don't even need "experts," but only a break from fake right wingnut media. Be a human being rather than a selfish twit and get one. It won't hurt too much. I promise.

[JjBee62]

I was saying that the general public will give you accolades for serving in the military then on the other hand those same people will tell those same veterans they are not shit if they don't want to get the vaccine. Which is it? Am I the best ever, or am I a piece of shit? Or does it just depend on which side of the issue I stand on at the moment? Same as everyone was labeled heros and essential workers this time last year. Now if those same people don't want the vaccine they don't even deserve to feed their families; fired!I'm right there with you on that subject. The same people who were spitting on me, spilling drinks on me, trying to start fights with me, even throwing beer bottles at me in 1981 because I was wearing the uniform are the same people waving their flags and saying "thank you for your service" today. And the same people who were standing on overpasses with signs saying "thank you truckers" are flipping off and screaming at truckers today.

I've never understood the whole hero worship crap. All the people who say that everyone in the military is a hero never spent any time in the military. You know as well as I that you were more likely to have your shit stolen by a shipmate than by anyone else. Same thing goes for any other occupation. All cops aren't saints, all nurses aren't Florence Nightingale.

[Paulie97]

True. There used to be something called redlining in the USA where when Black people thought they were free to buy houses anywhere they wanted, there were certain White people that exercised the freedom to halt their attempt. And there were other cases where some would just come burn them out if nothing else worked.You are an expert in logical fallacies, literally covering the whole gamet on a weekly basis, and that's a conservative estimate. This time it's a fake analogy. White over black, demonstrated racial injustices have nothing to do with this. Yes we will insist on vaccines, and in some cases masks to protect society from the SARS-2 that couldn't care less what your race or politics is. That's just as we forced hospitalized TB patients in the past with SCOTUS approval, and have mandated vaccines for other serious illnesses. Hell I remember having to eat the Polio vaccine sugarcubes at school. No one complained, yet Newsmax and Tucker weren't around, nor any all varieties right wingnut blogs for anyone with $50 for a smartphone to read. Yet you want to compare this to Jim Crow and lynchings. Give me a fucking break. I know you want to be a black conservative but you need to get much better at it. Right now you are just one step up from those Appalacian dipshits that tore up the Capital.

[JjBee62]

So if you worked at Enron and Ken Lay told you to put 20% in your 401 K...Or you were on Apollo 13 and the engineers said all systems go...Apples and oranges.

If I'm playing poker and the guy sitting next to me tells me I should go all in, I'm not sure he's got my best interest in mind. If my boss starts telling me I need to dump all my money into company stock, I'm looking for a new job. He wasn't hired to administer employee retirement plans.

On Apollo 13, yes. Because all systems were go. Then shit went sideways.

On health matters I talk to my doctors, I do my research and I try to make an informed decision. Have I been doing it wrong? Because if you believe I should get all my medical advice from someone who has demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge or even sanity (remember the UV light and disinfectant insanity?) on the subject, I'm going to have to give it a pass.

[JjBee62]

True. There used to be something called redlining in the USA where when Black people thought they were free to buy houses anywhere they wanted, there were certain White people that exercised the freedom to halt their attempt. And there were other cases where some would just come burn them out if nothing else worked.There was also something called blockbusting. A black family would buy a house in a white neighborhood through a third party. Once the neighbors realized they had black neighbors suddenly several houses would be up for sale.

And you're absolutely right. As I said, the consequences aren't always equitably applied.

[Spidy]

"We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy. " ― Chris Hedges.


Chris Hedges is a very intelligent writer.

It is true, Chris Hedges, is very astute writer and political activist and well known for being left-winger and having leftist tendencies in his political views.

Definitely a surprising post...interesting indeed!

BTW, hardly "Stupid Shit in Medellin", but whatever.

[Paulie97]

It is true, Chris Hedges, is very astute writer and political activist and well known for being left-winger and having leftist tendencies in his political views.

Definitely a surprising post...interesting indeed!

BTW, hardly "Stupid Shit in Medellin", but whatever.There's always been abuses, but only attention seeking propagandists make such inane sweeping statements. Banks offer a lot of good services and safety for our assets. Governments do a lot of good as well. In fact many running their mouths got their education through Pell Grants and student loans. Some that tore up the capital traveled and splurged on loans from the Cares Act. For every Cleflo Dollar, Joel Osteen, or Roman Catholic molestor priest there's 100 neighborhood pastors offering sound guidance and comfort during times of distress, and for little pay. For every Big Pharma drug gone bad there's 100 more that improve living, like PPIs and Viagra, and others that save lives like beta blockers, and more recently Regeneron. For every incompetent doctor there's many more offering great care. A team of four back in 2018 saved my sight in one eye with daily monitoring and compassionate, highly competent care. I've experienced the same with a surgery, an invasive throat procedure, and very recentily an amazing young female DO cured my chronic heel pain.

So the moral of the story is this, when you find yourself agreeing with obsessive "Stupid Shit" posters like Marquis de Twat and JustTK, who might even be the same person, give it some more thought. And yes, that post did belong in "stupid shit. " Whether left, right, or center, was just the words of another internet shock jock trying to make $ stirring the pot with illogical sweeping assertions.

[Paulie97]

Forgot a few.

We have the best imperfect legal system in the world. We saw how far Trump and Rudy's soft coup got in the courts. Then comes the violent coup and the criminals are now being prosecuted. Like everyone else, all are allowed quick bail hearings, a vigorious defense, right to speedy trial, innocent until proven guilty standard, and jury of their peers trials if prison time is on the line. SWEET. Try that in Colombia or most of these other countries with the cheap pussy. Justice is served all day every day in our courts. Only the seeming failures, or more often, the slanted whinefests from right wingnut media get the most attention.

There's plenty of excellent and useful information in our universities. They are of the world's finest. Most complaining about them have never attended one and are just parroting Faux News and the like. At my alma maters there were conservative and liberal profs in every department. This is the norm all over. Some have more of one than the other. For example business schools will have more conservative. History or English, more liberals. Students interested in learning hear both sides, talk to profs one on one which all love to do, do some of their own research and make up their own minds. Those just after the paper so they can get a job or satisfy their parents usually aren't listening in those classes anyway. They take notes to regurgitate. Plus more often are off in technology fields where politics and historical interpretations are much less of an issue. Plus there are conservative and liberal leaning schools in every state. You make the choice. People complaining about the evil professor boogeymen are typically opportunists scoring political points and morons who've never stepped foot in a college.

Same thing with this whining about critical race theory which has been around for decades. Did Faux News ever tell you about the piccaninny tales? Of course they didn't. Look it up I'm not doing all the work. What about the black children asktrays, leaning on their backs eating watermelon? Like white people don't like watermelon? Yea so snuff out the cigarette in the kid's belly. Or the black house servent front lawn statues? You can find these on Ebay from time to time. Minstrel shows, blacks in servile roles pictured on food products, Fat black maids as cookie jars, etc. An aquaintance of mine showed me one the other day and she refused to acknowlege the evil in it. That's why we need critical theory. Shoving it all under the rug like Faux News and their followers want to do leaves the wound to fester. Bringing it out in the open to show it as the evil that it is gives us a chance to heal. It's our history, and this motifs have been tools of subjugation and still exist in our national consciousness, and by default, in our institutions. Banning the discussion is not only the exact wrong thing to do, but is ironic coming from people who so often whine about censorship.

The media? Well we have two 24 hour news sources. One is to the left, the other to the right, though the later is the most extreme. The big three are more balanced. There are other sources, but you must gather from multiple to get at the truth. Newsmax and OANN are complete jokes, as is Fox for the most part, but that's the biggest part of the problem. So many only view right wingnut sources as they have believed Trump when he dismisses everything else as fake news. Yawns. But to conclude, the truth is always more complicated than buzz words and soundbites. The former though stirs more emotion and naturally draws more attention, and thus more votes for politicans and money for internet hacks, and of course grifters like Trump.

[Paulie97]

I'm right there with you on that subject. The same people who were spitting on me, spilling drinks on me, trying to start fights with me, even throwing beer bottles at me in 1981 because I was wearing the uniform are the same people waving their flags and saying "thank you for your service" today. I doubt it. As a Navy nuke you were a special target in the 80's, but it was primarily religious pacifists and the like objecting to the arms race. Could we have a bit of embellishment with the spitting accounts? Wink. Sounds like a lift from the 60's. I traveled the US in sales from '80 to '86, exclusively military towns, mostly army, and never once witnessed such activity. The only nuke spot I went to was New London, CT, which was near our home office. The nukes were great guys and I made a lot of sales.

Military men serve their country, and regardless of their motives, they still do it. This doesn't necessarily make them heroes. You erect a straw a man with that. They do however do things worthy of thanks. I do the same for cops on occasions, and firemen. Damn my mother for baking a pecan pie for the firemen that stopped our kitchen fire, as they put themselves in little danger, plus one or two might have been stealing from their bunkmates lockers. Wink. I thank Covid workers a lot, though some might be in it mostly for the money. Anyone who objects to these kinds of thanks is the one with a chip on their shoulder. Find a better cause.

[Paulie97]

I'm right there with you on that subject. I mean he gave you a launching pad by way of yet another false analogy to vent a grievance you both seem to have, but there's no inconsistency in how frontline Covid workers are being treated. Last year they were typically required to wear masks because they help stop the spread of COVID. Now that vaccines have been proven to do the same that requirement is coming also. Don't let him drag you off topic.

[JustTK]

It is true, Chris Hedges, is very astute writer and political activist and well known for being left-winger and having leftist tendencies in his political views.
BTW, hardly "Stupid Shit in Medellin", but whatever.Sry to disappoint you, hehe.

Staying on the subject Of Chris Hedges and vaccines, I thought one or two of you might like to hear what he has to say about the vaccines and his fear of the impending civil war that this could cause. I had fogotten about some of the pharma disasters, and its a very good point. They are only short clips, so well worth a few minutes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7ZGT8raQS8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roFiP4xjOAo

[MarquisdeSade1]

Forgot a few.

We have the best imperfect legal system in the world. We saw how far Trump and Rudy's soft coup got in the courts. Then comes the violent coup and the criminals are now being prosecuted. Like everyone else, all are allowed quick bail hearings, a vigorious defense, right to speedy trial, innocent until proven guilty standard, and jury of their peers trials if prison time is on the line. SWEET. Try that in Colombia or most of these other countries with the cheap pussy. Justice is served all day every day in our courts. Only the seeming failures, or more often, the slanted whinefests from right wingnut media get the most attention.

There's plenty of excellent and useful information in our universities. They are of the world's finest. Most complaining about them have never attended one and are just parroting Faux News and the like. At my alma maters there were conservative and liberal profs in every department. This is the norm all over. Some have more of one than the other. For example business schools will have more conservative. History or English, more liberals. Students interested in learning hear both sides, talk to profs one on one which all love to do, do some of their own research and make up their own minds. Those just after the paper so they can get a job or satisfy their parents usually aren't listening in those classes anyway. They take notes to regurgitate. Plus more often are off in technology fields where politics and historical interpretations are much less of an issue. Plus there are conservative and liberal leaning schools in every state. You make the choice. People complaining about the evil professor boogeymen are typically opportunists scoring political points and morons who've never stepped foot in a college.What's with all the race baiting faux virtue signaling?

Grifters like Trump? Wtf? Stop the projecting.

You being the he / she / it master door to door sales grifter of military widows pensions.

And I thought LOVEithere was whacko, but you take the top prize!!

Please tell us where you're alma mater is? Florida Dept of Corrections? LMAO.

Post-script, lay off the bath salts and / or meth.

[JjBee62]

I was saying that the general public will give you accolades for serving in the military then on the other hand those same people will tell those same veterans they are not shit if they don't want to get the vaccine. Which is it? Am I the best ever, or am I a piece of shit? Or does it just depend on which side of the issue I stand on at the moment? Same as everyone was labeled heros and essential workers this time last year. Now if those same people don't want the vaccine they don't even deserve to feed their families; fired!"If you want sympathy it's in the dictionary, between 'shit' and 'syphilis.'

Ever hear that one?

If someone calls you a piece of shit because you don't want to get vaccinated, why do you care? In my opinion getting vaccinated is in your best interest, but I doubt if you spend much time worrying about my opinion.

About 5 years ago a guy is grown up with called me a piece of shit because I pointed out that he had posted a racist meme. I didn't change my response.

Right here I was called a piece of shit for stating that Covid was a dangerous disease that we needed to take seriously. I was also called a piece of shit for stating my support for the vaccine. I've been called the same for an episode of atrial fibrillation, for having rheumatoid arthritis and for getting Covid.

There's a good chance I hold the record on ISG for the most times being called a piece of shit. Do you see me changing my ways? If I feel that what I'm saying or doing is right, I don't give a fuck what anyone wants to call me. There's only one way to get me to change, prove me wrong. That doesn't happen often, not because I'm infallible, but because it's much easier to call me a piece of shit.

If your choice is not to get vaccinated, then give the 1 finger salute to anyone who wants to call you names (or refuse to let you in their country, on their airplane, into their nightclub). Worst case scenario is that at some point before you lose the ability to speak, you might admit you made the wrong choice.

And we've all made wrong choices.

[JjBee62]

I doubt it. As a Navy nuke you were a special target in the 80's, but it was primarily religious pacifists and the like objecting to the arms race. Could we have a bit of embellishment with the spitting accounts? Wink. Sounds like a lift from the 60's. I traveled the US in sales from '80 to '86, exclusively military towns, mostly army, and never once witnessed such activity. The only nuke spot I went to was New London, CT, which was near our home office. The nukes were great guys and I made a lot of sales.

Military men serve their country, and regardless of their motives, they still do it. This doesn't necessarily make them heroes. You erect a straw a man with that. They do however do things worthy of thanks. I do the same for cops on occasions, and firemen. Damn my mother for baking a pecan pie for the firemen that stopped our kitchen fire, as they put themselves in little danger, plus one or two might have been stealing from their bunkmates lockers. Wink. I thank Covid workers a lot, though some might be in it mostly for the money. Anyone who objects to these kinds of thanks is the one with a chip on their shoulder. Find a better cause.Should I just go ahead and sign a release so you can get a copy of my service record? That might save me the trouble of constantly pointing out you haven't a clue what you're talking about.

Here's a shortened timeline for you:

In the summer of 1980 I went to boot camp at RTC Great Lakes, then transferred to NTC Great Lakes. At the time North Chicago was off limits to all Navy personnel because there were frequent robberies and assaults. If we wanted to leave the base we'd either catch the train to Chicago, or take a Greyhound to Milwaukee, where the drinking age was 18. A friend and I did catch a taxi to Kenosha, Wisconsin once, which wasn't nearly as exciting as it sounds.

My first bad experience was in Milwaukee, when a cop stopped us because we had stepped into the crosswalk less than a second before the light changed. He spent 10 minutes threatening to take us to jail and telling us exactly what he thought about sailors breaking the law in his town.

Now, if you're following along in my service record you will note I had finished PE Basics and was attending. MM A School, sill a long way from completing NPS and NPTU. I'm sure with your extensive lack of military experience you'll have no trouble with the acronyms. If you have any difficulty just binge on NCIS.

January 2, 1981 I reported TAD to a ship in Norfolk, VA nicknamed both "The Love Boat" and "Pier 5. " Norfolk has a long and rich history with the Navy and the residents aren't too happy about that. So if you happened to be walking down the street and a car slowed down you learned to be ready to dodge whatever came out the window. If you happened to be in a bar, you kept your eyes open for the guy who was about to accidentally stumble and spill his drink on you.

Are you keeping up? Are you ready to move on to Orlando? Or should I just skip to the part where you haven't a clue?

We'll just skip Orlando and touch briefly on NPTU A1 W Idaho Falls. That's the only place where it was obvious I was a nuke, because other than support, only nukes went to Idaho Falls. I really only had 1 bad experience there, with a cop. It wasn't anything significant, but he wasn't shy about expressing his dislike for the Navy. Not long after a coop in Pocatello was great when I probably should have gone to jail. He didn't even know the Navy was in Idaho Falls, 60 miles away (technically Atomic City at INEL).

Ready for the "you're clueless" closer?

Nukes don't glow in the dark. They don't carry signs declaring they are a nuke. When they're walking down the street, or drinking in a bar, wearing jeans and a t-shirt, they're indistinguishable from any other sailor. Sure we're slightly better looking and on average have a larger penis, but those are subtle differences. So your "nukes get treated better" postulate is downright silly.

If you're in the Navy and in a place with a large Navy presence, a part of the population isn't going to like you. The same is true for every branch of the military.

Before I wrap this up there's one thing I can't fail to mention. You never once witnessed someone spitting on, throwing things at, or starting fights with someone in the military? Really? You don't say? That right there is downright fascinating. I guess that's the final word on that.

Has your mother ever witnessed you fucking a hooker? If not, I think we can conclude that you've never fucked a hooker before. After all, if you were fucking hookers, wouldn't you be inviting your mother to watch you fuck hookers? What? You don't think your mother would be receptive to watching you fuck hookers? I'll leave you to figure out where that chain of logic leads.

What's the fascination with me? There's no scorecard. There aren't any trophies. Why do you so often feel like you need to try and score points against me? Every time you do, it's a complete failure. I don't mind. I'm just curious about the obsession.

[Elvis 2008]

I was saying that the general public will give you accolades for serving in the military then on the other hand those same people will tell those same veterans they are not shit if they don't want to get the vaccine. Which is it? Am I the best ever, or am I a piece of shit? Or does it just depend on which side of the issue I stand on at the moment? Same as everyone was labeled heros and essential workers this time last year. Now if those same people don't want the vaccine they don't even deserve to feed their families; fired!That is a good point, Mr. E. You know I share much the same experiences of you in being "fearless" and going abroad, but the truth is I have found that most people will just leave you alone as long as you leave them alone. You have not bought into the perpetual fear with traveling and neither have I.

That whole bit about government demonizing is why I will not stay in the USA long term. This instant good guy, bad buy stuff is literally out of Orwell's 1984, and I am sick of a government people have way too much faith in. Yeah, you are part of the loved military and hated unvaxxed group. I am sure I am in a loved and hated group too.

Hell, we got this dumb ass Villany on here mouthing off about MDS and me when we both are vaxxed and have advocated for it. He just thinks because we lean Republicans we have to be in the antivaxxed group.

He posts drips with this Democratic douche arrogance and then he actually pats himself on the back for not name calling and being civil. I was like, WTF is wrong with this guy? It is like these douches want to form these angry arrogant packs just so they have company.

Don't get me wrong. The Republican retards are just as bad. The difference is they are just quieter and say their offensive shit in more closed quarters.

Anyway, I cannot recall such hatred for those not in your pack.

The con with Covid has always been if we just do this or that, we will end the whole thing and things will get back to normal. That is not fucking happening, and now that an estimated 100 million Americans have had Covid and the USA is now a staggeringly high #1 in cases despite the huge numbers vaccinated, the question needs to be asked, does anybody know what the fuck they are doing? We just completely ruined our supply chain and economy and for what. But if you question the value of the government's action, people accuse you of not caring about human life and want you dead.

The latest stupid shit is that if we just got everyone vaxxed, everything would be fine. To those, I say look at the numbers. The places with the most vaxxed people are where there are the most cases but numbers have even gotten political, and it is that point I want to check out.

And then there is the stupid shit about polio and small pox as if all vaccines are the same when they are so different. There are good vaccines and shit vaccines, and this Covid vax is looking worse every day.

Now that we know the vaccine does not curb transmission, why are people so hell bent on lecturing others to get vaxxed? It is so stupid.

The hatred of course is based upon the fact that you can point at another and look down your nose at them and in so doing, you do not have to look at yourself. Who the hell here cannot be living a healthier lifestyle? It is so much easier to cut down your neighbor's health than deal with your own.

Thing is that the best answers are not as easy as the government makes them out to be. Take the element iron for example. About 80% of women on their periods lose blood and are low in iron. This causes depression, allergy issues, restless leg, cold intolerance, shitty skin, obesity, and fatigue among other things. You get them on the right amount of iron and so many of their problems go away.

With older men, they have the opposite problem, too much blood / iron. If donating blood / iron were a drug, it would be the best seller of all time because the data on donating blood with regards to heart and stroke prevention is astounding.

So iron is toxic for most older men and beneficial for younger women on their periods, but so many people cannot grasp this simple concept. They want to know, "Is iron good for me?" They are so used to the government telling them what is good or not good for them. The answer "It depends" which is actually the correct answer in MOST medical conditions leaves people so flummoxed that they do not know what to do with it.

And people cannot grasp that with the vaccine. Yes, IMO an 80 year old obese diabetic should get vaccinated, a healthy 15 year old boy IMO should not. But the provaxxers scream, "No everyone (or 75 then 85 then 97% of the population) needs it. " WTF?

The irony about countries with bad governance is that the people learn to trust themselves more and government less. I personally don't want help from the government. I just want them to leave me the fuck alone.

I thought the purpose of incarceration was putting people away who are harmful to society. Now I think it is mostly there just to put people away who buck government. We have more people in jail than any other nation and when a fellow monger, who really did not seem to have hurt anyone, was put away we had mongers here cheering the government on putting him in jail. It was that delusion when the government said it was going to crack down on mongers, and mongers were like, "the government is not coming after me" that I realized I needed to get the hell out. Americans do not respect freedom anymore. All they respect now is government, and it is really, really sad.

[PVMonger]

Forgot a few.

We have the best imperfect legal system in the world. We saw how far Trump and Rudy's soft coup got in the courts. Then comes the violent coup and the criminals are now being prosecuted. Like everyone else, all are allowed quick bail hearings, a vigorious defense, right to speedy trial, innocent until proven guilty standard, and jury of their peers trials if prison time is on the line. SWEET. Try that in Colombia or most of these other countries with the cheap pussy. Justice is served all day every day in our courts. Only the seeming failures, or more often, the slanted whinefests from right wingnut media get the most attention.

There's plenty of excellent and useful information in our universities. They are of the world's finest. Most complaining about them have never attended one and are just parroting Faux News and the like. At my alma maters there were conservative and liberal profs in every department. This is the norm all over. Some have more of one than the other. For example business schools will have more conservative. History or English, more liberals. Students interested in learning hear both sides, talk to profs one on one which all love to do, do some of their own research and make up their own minds. Those just after the paper so they can get a job or satisfy their parents usually aren't listening in those classes anyway. They take notes to regurgitate. Plus more often are off in technology fields where politics and historical interpretations are much less of an issue. Plus there are conservative and liberal leaning schools in every state. You make the choice. People complaining about the evil professor boogeymen are typically opportunists scoring political points and morons who've never stepped foot in a college..Amen, brother.

Unfortunately, the rightwingnuts are so far gone they'll just deride this as "fake news".

[MarquisdeSade1]

That is a good point, Mr. E. You know I share much the same experiences of you in being "fearless" and going abroad, but the truth is I have found that most people will just leave you alone as long as you leave them alone. You have not bought into the perpetual fear with traveling and neither have I.

That whole bit about government demonizing is why I will not stay in the USA long term. This instant good guy, bad buy stuff is literally out of Orwell's 1984, and I am sick of a government people have way too much faith in. Yeah, you are part of the loved military and hated unvaxxed group. I am sure I am in a loved and hated group too.

Hell, we got this dumb ass Villany on here mouthing off about MDS and me when we both are vaxxed and have advocated for it. He just thinks because we lean Republicans we have to be in the antivaxxed group.

He posts drips with this Democratic douche arrogance and then he actually pats himself on the back for not name calling and being civil. I was like, WTF is wrong with this guy? It is like these douches want to form these angry arrogant packs just so they have company.

Don't get me wrong. The Republican retards are just as bad. The difference is they are just quieter and say their offensive shit in more closed quarters..Encore Encore!!

[BlackThought]

What's with all the race baiting faux virtue signaling?

Grifters like Trump? Wtf? Stop the projecting.

You being the he / she / it master door to door sales grifter of military widows pensions.

And I thought LOVEithere was whacko, but you take the top prize!!

Please tell us where you're alma mater is? Florida Dept of Corrections? LMAO.

Post-script, lay off the bath salts and / or meth.Posts on a monger forum = 974.

Actual mongering experience = 0.

What are you doing here? Is that why you've moved to the American Politics thread? Lmao.

[Mr Enternational]

but there's no inconsistency in how frontline Covid workers are being treated. Last year they were typically required to wear masks because they help stop the spread of COVID. Now that vaccines have been proven to do the same that requirement is coming also.How is begging them to come risk their lives at work last year to telling them they can not even have a job if they want to continue the same risk by not getting vaccinated this year not treating them differently?

[Spidy]

... So the moral of the story is this, when you find yourself agreeing with obsessive "Stupid Shit" posters like Marquis de Twat and JustTK, who might even be the same person, give it some more thought. And yes, that post did belong in "stupid shit. " Whether left, right, or center, was just the words of another internet shock jock trying to make $ stirring the pot with illogical sweeping assertions.

Yeah, don't over think it!

Simply put, it like me agreeing with Marquis de Twat (as you put it), that "the sky is blue" or "blood is red". Chris Hedges being a great intelligent writer/political leftist-activist, is just a true fact. No need to get things twisted, beyond this.

Okay, back to "Stupid Shit in Medellin", carry-on.

[JjBee62]

How is begging them to come risk their lives at work last year to telling them they can not even have a job if they want to continue the same risk by not getting vaccinated this year not treating them differently?I know the answer to this one.

Healthcare workers are already required to have several up to date vaccines, including an annual influenza vaccine. Without the required vaccines they lose their jobs. I don't recall anyone pitching a fit because they couldn't work without a tetanus shot.

Last year there was no available Covid vaccine. Requiring healthcare workers to get a non-existent vaccine in order to work doesn't seem workable.

However, now there are vaccines. The healthcare industry has determined that workers who are unvaccinated pose a risk to the patients. There is no difference between the requirement for nurses to get the MMR vaccine and the requirement to get the Covid vaccine.

Frankly I'm somewhat surprised there are healthcare workers who don't understand the need for vaccination against a disease which they have witnessed firsthand the effects of.

[LoveItHere69]

Frankly I'm somewhat surprised there are healthcare workers who don't understand the need for vaccination against a disease which they have witnessed firsthand the effects of.Maybe they know something we do not know. Maybe there are health care workers taking placebo shots (shots of pure water) pretending to get the vaccine because if it sounds too good to be true, then guess what? It probably is. And that seems to be closer to the truth since now big pharmaceutical companies wants everyone to take more and more shots because the stuff does not work as well as they had promised. Health care workers know that politicians and Big Pharma only care about the money.

[Elvis 2008]

I know the answer to this one.No, you don't. You just made one up.


However, now there are vaccines. The healthcare industry has determined that workers who are unvaccinated pose a risk to the patients.I know to a Democratic like you "the healthcare industry" and Biden are one in the same, but to the rest of us who do not spend every second of every day sucking government dick, they are a little different.


There is no difference between the requirement for nurses to get the MMR vaccine and the requirement to get the Covid vaccine.Man, I wish I knew as much about medicine as you think you know. Do you know when the government should get involved with vaccines? When they reduce disease transmission and protect the public good. The MMR vaccine does that. The Covid vaccine does not prevent transmission. You could make a much better case that the government should ban health care workers from smoking than mandating Covid vaccines because of second hand smoke.


Frankly I'm somewhat surprised there are healthcare workers who don't understand the need for vaccination against a disease which they have witnessed firsthand the effects of.OMG. This from who got the vaccine, caught Covid, and spread it all over Colombia. Gee, douche, maybe health care workers saw dummies like you catch the disease after being vaccinated and decided that after having been around Covid day and night that they would do better continuing what they were doing than taking a vaccine with a horrendous side effect profile.

With a government loving douche like you, the vaccine has no side effects at all. It is fine, nothing to it. The fact that the most vaccinated countries have the most cases means nothing to you either. What matters is what government says not facts especially when the government is run by Biden.

And of course besides seeing the horrendous side effects of the vaccine, health care workers would be more likely than the general population to have naturally occurring antibodies and therefore do not need the vaccine. Fauci said he does not know what to make of natural immunity, but Biden said "Fuck it. Let's just vaxx everyone. " and again with you, Biden and the medical establishment are one in the same.

The thing about the vaccine now is that it is so fucking partisan that the vaccine manufactures practically have a fiduciary duty to funnel money to the Democratic party. The vaccine is so shitty now given how ineffective it is and how bad the side effects are that it HAS to be mandated. If you study the numbers, many people might make educated decision on their own, and you Dems cannot have that. To a douche like you, funneling money to the Democratic party is a helluva lot more important than people's freedom or side effects from the vaccine. Hell, you are touting the vaccine after it failed with you.

One of Biden's other brilliant Covid initiatives was the Covid test when you fly into the country but not when you drive in or come in by bus. There are more Covid cases now than before this policy was put in, and it was not put in by Congress. That was your dodge on the government crack down on prostitution right? Change the law? How do you change THIS law when it was not passed by Congress? Constitutional amendment? Assassination? This testing requirement and the vaccine mandates are literally the acts of a dictator.

The testing law was put into effect was for one reason: to show Biden cares about Covid. LOL. His appearance of caring is more important than Americans having to pay for these worthless tests and having Q-tips shoved up their nose.

For a guy who spends so much time sucking government dick, I do not understand why you ever go to Colombia. If this country is so damned great, why do you ever leave?

[MarquisdeSade1]

Posts on a monger forum = 974.

Actual mongering experience = 0.

What are you doing here? Is that why you've moved to the American Politics thread? Lmao.Why don't you grab Villainy and run back to CCP land I'm sure with all that diarrhea they need your anal wart encrusted tongue and lips more than ever!

(but our thanks for helping USA thru the toilet paper shortage of 2020 I'm guessing you were in heaven licking all those dirty buttholes clean with Osteo) jajajajaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/opinion/china-bubble-economy.html

Actual mongering experience = 0 jajajajaaaa.

You're the fool that says Soi Cowboy is better than Nana.

SC is the worst venue in Thailand and probably all of Asia.

But I'm guessing you love the proximity to all those LBs on Suk around the corner.

I saw many Asian mongers walking hand in hand with them with huge smiles I'm guessing one of them was you.

Then I mentioned I was in the PI for a visa run from BKK and you called it a shithole, but then you write you go there?

Seriously? Oh sorry how could I forget you literally love licking dirty shitholes!!

We need to change your name to subhuman toilet paper JAJAJAJAJAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.

[JjBee62]

Maybe they know something we do not know. Maybe there are health care workers taking placebo shots (shots of pure water) pretending to get the vaccine because if it sounds too good to be true, then guess what? It probably is. And that seems to be closer to the truth since now big pharmaceutical companies wants everyone to take more and more shots because the stuff does not work as well as they had promised. Health care workers know that politicians and Big Pharma only care about the money.When you decide to be wrong you certainly give it your best effort, which I appreciate. So many people here who are talking out of their ass just phone it in.

Politicians primarily care about power and control, money is just a fringe benefit. "Big Pharma", also known as the pharmaceutical industry cares about returning value to stock holders. Which is the same as "Big Auto", "Big Food", "Big Toilet Paper", "Big Whatever For Profit Industry someone is currently using as a scapegoat. ".

Why did you fail to mention "Big Healthcare?" They also "only care about money. " Why aren't they fighting tooth and nail against vaccination? Full ICU wards means big profits.

Whenever I see someone mentioning "Big Pharma" or any other phrase that's the current flavor of the month of "Big Conspiracy", I understand they are just repeating what they're being fed by their favorite flop and twitch talking head. It's not something they thought about, or researched. It's just something which was spoonfed to them to focus them on some target.

In your scenario, where healthcare workers are taking shots of pure water (which is not a good idea. Sterile water perhaps), can you explain how they are doing that? The vaccines are distributed by batch number, stored cryogenically and tracked by the receiver. This is true of all the stuff from "Big Pharma. " It's for protection of "Big Pharma" profits. If someone gets access to, for example, a shipment of Viagra (weird how nobody was talking about "Big Pharma" when they came out with a boner pill) and contaminates the pills, when old fuckers start dropping dead with an erection, stock holders panic.

So in order for healthcare workers to fake vaccinate themselves, they first need to highjack a shipment (in every city where there are healthcare workers), replace part of the shipment with sterile water, somehow identify the placebos in a way that is unnoticeable, have someone who has control of the distribution of the vaccines locally in on the plan and make sure the placebos are only administered to the healthcare workers who can afford about $10,000 per shot, because the whole process is going to be fucking expensive. All of that to avoid getting a free vaccine, when they are already required to get other vaccines to work.

Seems like a lot of trouble to go to. As someone deeply involved in transportation and logistics, in an industry critical to "Big Pharma", Big Healthcare", "Big Food", "Big Booze", "Big Auto", "Big Chemical" and just about every other industry, expect toilet paper, we've received no warnings about any of the aspects necessary to make your conspiracy viable.

"Big Pharma" never promised the vaccines would be perfect. Even my dog is smart enough to understand that no vaccine is 100% effective, many vaccines are only effective for a limited time and all vaccines can potentially cause problems with a statistically small number of recipients. When you're receiving whacked out conspiracy theories you're supposed to either put on your tinfoil hat, or microwave your head for 30 seconds, not both.

When the vaccines first came available "Big Pharma" stated they were uncertain on how long they would be effective. Shit, that's one of the things the nutjobs were whining about, that we might need to be vaccinated again every year.

Are you old enough to remember polio? I am. Two people I grew up with were afflicted. When the polio vaccine was first introduced in the US, in 1955, it sounded too good to be true. In the 1950's there were 15,000 cases yearly before the vaccine. Last year there were 140 cases in the world, almost all of them in Pakistan and Afghanistan. There hasn't been a case that originated in the US in over 40 years.

Too good to be true? I remember about 18 months ago when a whole bunch of people (who are now opposed to the vaccine) were screaming that Covid was too bad to be true. There was no way it could be worse than the flu, and we don't shut down everything for the flu. Right?

No, the vaccine isn't perfect. Only a complete fool would expect it to be perfect. Even Viagra doesn't work for everyone and poses risks for some people. Yes, it's probably going to require a third dose and maybe more. You seem to have forgotten that Viagra is something you need to take every time you want to wake up your willy. Shouldn't you be insisting that nobody take ED pills until they come up with one which never needs another dose?

Again, I'm really curious why you aren't screaming about "Big Pharma" every time someone asks where to buy Viagra. If you're going to protest against "Big Pharma" making money, the least you could do is be consistent. What about antibiotics? Just recently someone was asking about antibiotics. Where was your "Big Pharma" rant then?

There are signs that natural immunity might provide better protection from Covid. There are only two problems with that. One is, right here on ISG, we have a guy who claims to have had Covid 5 times. Kinda makes you think that there are some flaws in the natural immunity route. The other problem with the natural immunity route is the method in which it provides immunity to many people, death. Granted, death provides 100% protection, not only from Covid, but from every disease, angry ex-wives and bill collectors. It cures insomnia and you never need to worry about supporting "Big Pharma" again. However, some people prefer to avoid that path to immunity.

The current data shows that unvaccinated people are 11.3 times more likely to die from Covid. While the vaccine might not keep you from getting infected, as I can attest to, it gives you a much better chance of not having to tell a healthcare worker (who probably got vaccinated) that you don't want to go the natural immunity route.

Just a final bit of advice. When you hear something such as healthcare workers pretending to get the vaccine, give it some thought before repeating it. Because, it's better to realize that it's a completely unworkable scenario, before someone else points it out to you.

[BlackThought]

Why don't you grab Villainy and run back to CCP land I'm sure with all that diarrhea they need your anal wart encrusted tongue and lips more than ever!

(but our thanks for helping USA thru the toilet paper shortage of 2020 I'm guessing you were in heaven licking all those dirty buttholes clean with Osteo) jajajajaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/22/opinion/china-bubble-economy.html

Actual mongering experience = 0 jajajajaaaa.

You're the fool that says Soi Cowboy is better than Nana.

SC is the worst venue in Thailand and probably all of Asia.

But I'm guessing you love the proximity to all those LBs on Suk around the corner.

I saw many Asian mongers walking hand in hand with them with huge smiles I'm guessing one of them was you.Oh there goes the clown, so you claim to have extensive mongering experience and have met many other mongers. Villainy and I have $10 k USD that you are full of shit. We can have Mr. E or Surfer as the middle man to hold the $, lets meet in MDE and show us the stamps on your passport (doubt you even have a passport lmao). Are you going to dodge this like you did earlier? Coward.

[BlackThought]

Then I mentioned I was in the PI for a visa run from BKK and you called it a shithole, but then you write you go there?Yeah, I called Angeles city a shithole. Of course I've been there, which is why I made that statement. I actually monger in places that I post about, unlike you lmao.

[Paulie97]

Lololol.

https://bonvoyaged.com/uncool-thing-boomers-wont-give-up/1

[MarquisdeSade1]

"We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy. " ― Chris Hedges.https://amgreatness.com/2021/10/24/ground-zero-of-woke/

[Elvis 2008]

The current data shows that unvaccinated people are 11.3 times more likely to die from Covid.Not only is that statistic not accurate in present terms, it is incredibly misleading, it shows all that is wrong with Covid and statistics.

The reason it is ridiculous is the assumption that everyone is the same. If you are a fat 80 year old diabetic with a lung problem, you are probably 100 X more likely to die if you do not get the vaccine, but a healthy 12 year old boy is going to get no death benefit from the vaccine but he is extremely likely to have a horrific and potentially long lasting side effect from the vaccine relatively speaking.

And so you have the vaxxers on one side and the antivaxxers on the other. The problem is where is my group, the people who actually use their fucking brains, believe in freedom, and say "I am pro or anti vax based on who is actually getting the shot." We do not have a voice.

If you take those two extreme patient examples, most everyone else is in the middle, and it is the height of arrogance for anybody to say I know what is best for everyone, but because people are so in love with power, they do it anyway. Fauci does not know if we should be vaccinating people with natural immunity but professor shit for brains here does. Jesus.

The thing is you have these government bureaucrats and they are in power for life and they have legal immunity from lawsuits and the like, and I would actually be in favor of these people if they truly acted in the public good, but I just do not see it. I see people more interested in looking good than doing good.

One of the first thing these fuckers did was to cover their ass. This virus was created in a lab in China paid for by USA bureaucrats who skirted the will of elected officials. Instead of being honest about this, these assholes published in one of their "peer reviewed" articles that anyone who said this virus did not originate in nature was pushing conspiracy theories, and anyone who criticized China was racist.

The other thing I see is the bureaucrats mingling with the pols to cut the best deals they can get for their own selfish asses. The bureaucrats should be out hawking the "it depends" idea but instead they are incessantly promoting the vaccine. Well, it turns out that some of these bureaucratic agencies get a piece of the pie with every shot given. The CDC's own internal documents show it promoted the notion of heterosexual HIV for its own selfish purposes (I. E. To get funding) and people to this day still do not believe it is true. And it smells like the CDC, NIH ETC are out cutting deals with the pols right and left now at this moment. You almost have to ask: do these bureaucrats really want the Covid crisis to end?

So what should the bureaucrats have done? They should have admitted publicly that there is no cure for a cold virus, and that the natural course of events is that cold viruses mutate into more contagious but less deadly forms. Our goal therefore is to actually expose those with the strongest immune systems (I. E. Young people) to create these less deadly viral mutations while protecting the most vulnerable (the obese, the diabetic, the elderly) from getting sick at all. Just like with the flu vaccine, the emphasis should be placed on those most at risk.

They should have been emphasizing endlessly to do no harm. Instead they jumped on the "doing something" band wagon. Wear your mask! Wash your hands! Social distance! The problem with "doing something" is you are more likely to be doing nothing or doing something harmful than actually doing good. That is why do no harm is the first rule in all medical interventions. "Do no harm" is right. "Do something" is popular.

What we saw time and again was fucking bureaucrats holding the ball like Lucy telling the gullible Charlie Brown public "just run and kick the ball Charlie Brown and all will go back to normal. " The bureaucrats pull the ball, the public falls on its ass, and these bureaucrats laugh at us and give some new excuse about why the ball was not kicked, and how everything was our fault. The classic example of this was Fauci with herd immunity. First, it was 75% have to be vaccinated then 85 and now it is 97% for the Covid crisis to end. Of course, Fauci owns Moderna stock, and the fucked up part is that he does not even have to disclose how many shares he owns.

When you see a guy like Fauci incessantly on TV, he is no longer the tireless bureaucrat making the tough calls behind the scenes. No, he is a fucking pol, and I want to know why I feel like I am the only one who sees it. I just see this fucker profiting endlessly off the red-blue divide. Early on, both sides seem to care more about getting Fauci on their team rather than holding him accountable for doing the right thing.

Pols are motivated by popularity, and that is fine, but bureaucrats should not be. It is not popular to say there is practically nothing we can do about a cold virus. It is not popular to say that yes 15 year old Johnnie should get Covid for the benefit of society as a whole, but that is what was needed to be done and was not because everyone is focused on being popular over being right.

All the past and present bureaucratic stupidity is ignored. Remember the Lucy about telling us we had to flatten the curve back in March 2020? I do not know why it is that I seem to be the only one who remembers all the dumb shit and the times the bureaucrats were dead wrong.

And the reason the bureaucrats get away with it is because they always put out a new conflict for people to chew on, miraculously coming up with the latest red-blue debate, and the provax-antivax debate may be the dumbest one yet.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Forgot a few.

We have the best imperfect legal system in the world. We saw how far Trump and Rudy's soft coup got in the courts. Then comes the violent coup and the criminals are now being prosecuted. Like everyone else, all are allowed quick bail hearings, a vigorious defense, right to speedy trial, innocent until proven guilty standard, and jury of their peers trials if prison time is on the line. SWEET. Try that in Colombia or most of these other countries with the cheap pussy. Justice is served all day every day in our courts. Only the seeming failures, or more often, the slanted whinefests from right wingnut media get the most attention.

There's plenty of excellent and useful information in our universities. They are of the world's finest. Most complaining about them have never attended one and are just parroting Faux News and the like. At my alma maters there were conservative and liberal profs in every department. This is the norm all over. Some have more of one than the other. For example business schools will have more conservative. History or English, more liberals. Students interested in learning hear both sides, talk to profs one on one which all love to do, do some of their own research and make up their own minds. Those just after the paper so they can get a job or satisfy their parents usually aren't listening in those classes anyway. They take notes to regurgitate. Plus more often are off in technology fields where politics and historical interpretations are much less of an issue. Plus there are conservative and liberal leaning schools in every state. You make the choice. People complaining about the evil professor boogeymen are typically opportunists scoring political points and morons who've never stepped foot in a college..Lines to regurgitate from your endless fawning over the TV with are Maddow on a tivo loop? Try reading something sometime, instead you mental midget!

Didn't they have books in the Florida prison system for you to read?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/26/books/review/john-mcwhorter-woke-racism.html?surface=most-popular&fellback=false&req_id=286235162&algo=bandit-all-surfaces_setnthitem_0_news_typekoftopn_2_5_news&variant=2_bandit-all-surfaces_guardrails_pool_hp_3d&pool=pool/eb1c3756-caa2-47cd-b3ba-0be3d88f1636&imp_id=726705268&action=click&module=Popular%20in%20The%20Times&pgtype=Homepage

[MarquisdeSade1]

No, you don't. You just made one up.

I know to a Democratic like you "the healthcare industry" and Biden are one in the same, but to the rest of us who do not spend every second of every day sucking government dick, they are a little different.

Man, I wish I knew as much about medicine as you think you know. Do you know when the government should get involved with vaccines? When they reduce disease transmission and protect the public good. The MMR vaccine does that. The Covid vaccine does not prevent transmission. You could make a much better case that the government should ban health care workers from smoking than mandating Covid vaccines because of second hand smoke.

OMG. This from who got the vaccine, caught Covid, and spread it all over Colombia. Gee, douche, maybe health care workers saw dummies like you catch the disease after being vaccinated and decided that after having been around Covid day and night that they would do better continuing what they were doing than taking a vaccine with a horrendous side effect profile.

With a government loving douche like you, the vaccine has no side effects at all. It is fine, nothing to it. The fact that the most vaccinated countries have the most cases means nothing to you either. What matters is what government says not facts especially when the government is run by Biden.

And of course besides seeing the horrendous side effects of the vaccine, health care workers would be more likely than the general population to have naturally occurring antibodies and therefore do not need the vaccine. Fauci said he does not know what to make of natural immunity, but Biden said "Fuck it. Let's just vaxx everyone. " and again with you, Biden and the medical establishment are one in the same.This is funny ass shit.

Full disclosure.

I've been vaxed 4 x in 12 months LOL.

I'm guessing somewhere between 90 and 150 days Ill take another hit off the needle LOL.

"in for a penny in for a pound" LMAO.

[MarquisdeSade1]

No, you don't. You just made one up.

I know to a Democratic like you "the healthcare industry" and Biden are one in the same, but to the rest of us who do not spend every second of every day sucking government dick, they are a little different.

Man, I wish I knew as much about medicine as you think you know. Do you know when the government should get involved with vaccines? When they reduce disease transmission and protect the public good. The MMR vaccine does that. The Covid vaccine does not prevent transmission. You could make a much better case that the government should ban health care workers from smoking than mandating Covid vaccines because of second hand smoke.

OMG. This from who got the vaccine, caught Covid, and spread it all over Colombia. Gee, douche, maybe health care workers saw dummies like you catch the disease after being vaccinated and decided that after having been around Covid day and night that they would do better continuing what they were doing than taking a vaccine with a horrendous side effect profile.

With a government loving douche like you, the vaccine has no side effects at all. It is fine, nothing to it. The fact that the most vaccinated countries have the most cases means nothing to you either. What matters is what government says not facts especially when the government is run by Biden.https://www.rt.com/news/538644-adolf-hitler-valid-vaccine-pass/

[MarquisdeSade1]

https://www.newsmax.com/us/antidepressant-covid-treatment-fluvoxamine/2021/10/27/id/1042276/

[MarquisdeSade1]

Lololol.

https://bonvoyaged.com/uncool-thing-boomers-wont-give-up/1I wouldn't trust any link from this dirtbag its probably full of spyware and malware to empty.

Your credit cards and bank accts.

[MarquisdeSade1]

The CDC's own internal documents show it promoted the notion of heterosexual HIV for its own selfish purposes (I. E. To get funding) and people to this day still do not believe it is true.

And the reason the bureaucrats get away with it is because they always put out a new conflict for people to chew on, miraculously coming up with the latest red-blue debate, and the provax-antivax debate may be the dumbest one yet.My main PCP is a very well respected HIV specialist in Chicago (and yes incidentally he's married to a dood) the 1st time I went to see him several yrs ago, to ask about my risks factors, ie BBFS mongering female putas globally.

And asked about the HIV risk of my cock in a puta vagina, I will never forget the look on his face, it was like he thought I was asking him as some kind of immature joke, I asked if he could quantify the risk factor.

And I believe he said if was "statistically insignificant" he prescribes Truvada for me, and I can't get him to say I don't need it, maybe for liability reasons? But I asked for it because I told him.

I periodically like to pound some fresh from the market puta buttholes BBFS, and he seemed kind of neutral on the idea, I'm not sure how many Colombian putas have HIV? I'm guessing not many.

Yes the CDC wasn't getting the funding they wanted from Reagan so they came up with a lie to get the public scared and pushing to give the CDC funding.

Instead of just telling the truth that HIV is a gay men's issue along with IV drug users, they lied and it worked.

The Chinese virus is the sequel to that, 40 yrs later with Fauci still center stage!

[MarquisdeSade1]

My main PCP is a very well respected HIV specialist in Chicago (and yes incidentally he's married to a dood) the 1st time I went to see him several yrs ago, to ask about my risks factors, ie BBFS mongering female putas globally.

And asked about the HIV risk of my cock in a puta vagina, I will never forget the look on his face, it was like he thought I was asking him as some kind of immature joke, I asked if he could quantify the risk factor.

And I believe he said if was "statistically insignificant" he prescribes Truvada for me, and I can't get him to say I don't need it, maybe for liability reasons? But I asked for it because I told him.

I periodically like to pound some fresh from the market puta buttholes BBFS, and he seemed kind of neutral on the idea, I'm not sure how many Colombian putas have HIV? I'm guessing not many.

Yes the CDC wasn't getting the funding they wanted from Reagan so they came up with a lie to get the public scared and pushing to give the CDC funding.And lest we forget poor little Ryan White, I'll mention him also!

I'm sure he was Faucis public health PR acte ouvert!

The Chinese virus being his piece de resistance.

[BlackThought]

My main PCP is a very well respected HIV specialist in Chicago (and yes incidentally he's married to a dood) the 1st time I went to see him several yrs ago, to ask about my risks factors, ie BBFS mongering female putas globally.

And asked about the HIV risk of my cock in a puta vagina, I will never forget the look on his face, it was like he thought I was asking him as some kind of immature joke, I asked if he could quantify the risk factor.Chances of catching HIV from wet dreams is 0. You don't need a doctor to tell you that, kid.

[JjBee62]

For more than 2 days the only posts here are from 1 person. I have no idea what they say, as you'll see from the screenshot, but it looks pretty desperate. Kinda like a child repeatedly screaming for attention.

[Elvis 2008]

And asked about the HIV risk of my cock in a puta vagina, I will never forget the look on his face, it was like he thought I was asking him as some kind of immature joke, I asked if he could quantify the risk factor.

And I believe he said if was "statistically insignificant" he prescribes Truvada for me, and I can't get him to say I don't need it, maybe for liability reasons? But I asked for it because I told him.Yeah, thing is if you are just BBFS then everything is fine. But what if you are getting up the ass and shooting up? Then you could come around and say your doctor did not warn you about BBFS. So maybe he prescribes the Truvada and says to documents that he recommend you use condoms and can say he "did something" which is what matters to a jury.

The irony in a courtroom is that Fauci's folly, that HIV is commonly transmitted heterosexually, is widely believed, and a doctor would have to adjust to that non-scientific belief. If you get HIV and deny drug use and homosexual activity, I know you are full of shit, but I bet a jury would not. From a liability stand point, the worst thing a doctor can tell a patient is "you can fuck BBFS all you want". It is not that fucking with condoms is safer but they are believed to be safer, and we have Lord Fauci and his fucking AIDS scare to thank for that.

[BlackThought]

For more than 2 days the only posts here are from 1 person. I have no idea what they say, as you'll see from the screenshot, but it looks pretty desperate. Kinda like a child repeatedly screaming for attention.He's spamming this thread, so that it pushes the post of Villainy calling him out on a gentlemen's bet to meet him in MDE to prove he's mongered in the places he's claimed (stamps on passport). He put $5 k usd and I matched it as well, guess what, he's too much of a coward to accept it (easy $10 k usd right? Just like how he dodged you when you told him to meet you in MDE to prove he can pull chicas for free LOL.

He's a fraud and I've received many PMs from mongers laughing about him and how he's on their ignore list.

[MarquisdeSade1]

Yeah, thing is if you are just BBFS then everything is fine. But what if you are getting up the ass and shooting up? Then you could come around and say your doctor did not warn you about BBFS. So maybe he prescribes the Truvada and says to documents that he recommend you use condoms and can say he "did something" which is what matters to a jury.

The irony in a courtroom is that Fauci's folly, that HIV is commonly transmitted heterosexually, is widely believed, and a doctor would have to adjust to that non-scientific belief. If you get HIV and deny drug use and homosexual activity, I know you are full of shit, but I bet a jury would not. From a liability stand point, the worst thing a doctor can tell a patient is "you can fuck BBFS all you want". It is not that fucking with condoms is safer but they are believed to be safer, and we have Lord Fauci and his fucking AIDS scare to thank for that.Truvada is supposed to be taken everyday 365, but I do not.

A pharmacist explained how I can use it prn, but I take it for insurance, just in case the puta I'm sodomizing has a novio that is a junkie or one of the BMs here is.

Also drilling her and is HIV positive?

Like the Chinese virus vax I prefer to error on the side of caution, 4 x in 12 months LOL Faucis should put me in an AD campaign LOL.

That being said if you make it obligatory, you couldn't force me at gunpoint, you could take away my job and lock me up I still wouldn't take it.

The absolute worst mistake they can make is to try to have the mandates for it.

[Villainy]

Pending investigation into what? A guy not unlocking his cellphone? Stop watching netflix buddy.A number of people have tried to give you very good advice but you seem intent on going your own way. Great! You seem to think the country works just like on 'Law and Order'. You think that you can demand that you call the embassy. Good luck with that. You'll get your free call to the embassy whenever the f* they feel like giving it to you. You aren't entitled to a speedy arraignment, they can hold you for no reason other than you were an a**hole, for as long as they like. Maybe after you mouth off to some police officer or immigration officer about how you're an American and you get the "you're not that welcome here" experience you can come back and tell us how it went and how they treated you in the Colombian jail.

Of course you could remember you are a guest in their country. You could try being polite, friendly and cooperative even if you don't like what is being asked of you. Do that. And you'll likely have a very good experience here just leave the attitude at the US departure gate.

[JjBee62]

Pending investigation into what? A guy not unlocking his cellphone? Stop watching netflix buddy.I believe the term, in English is "failure to comply with a lawful search. " This appears to be news to you, but Colombia is not part of the United States. The rights you have in Colombia are not the same as in the United States. The Federal police in Colombia don't run and hide whenever some gringo threatens to call the US Embassy.

This is information you really need to get into your thick skull before you go to Colombia, because the learning curve if you decide to play the "I don't have to listen to you because I'm an American" card, is really steep.

I doubt if the police are going to ask you to unlock your phone, whether in the airport or Parque Lleras. However, it's a possibility. If it's a possibility, then you should be aware of your lack of any right to refuse. Several of us have tried to make you aware, but apparently you're immune to knowledge.

Now, what can they detain you for? Suspicion of human trafficking, suspicious of trafficking with children, suspicion of possession of child pornography, suspicion of drug smuggling. And guess how the US Embassy is going to react? Are they going to rush to the aid of a suspected trafficker and pedophile? When the police produce evidence, are they going to believe your story over the police, especially when the Embassy is the US agency conveying to Colombia that they want them to help find all of the above.

As I've said already, if you get pulled aside for a search, before you start in with your temper tantrum, get someone to video it. I'll do my part to make it go viral, which might generate enough income for your next of kin to get your body returned home after your fun-filled trip through the Colombian legal system.

[Mr Enternational]

Mr E,

You said if you didn't do anything wrong, than don't worry. If that's true, why did they take your global entry card away. Maybe they already have you pegged as a sex tourist. You travel everywhere.

Colombia and now Thailand are saying they want to Crack down on prostitution. What if they want to make a example of someone. They swipe your passport and see that you've been to every know hooker destination in the world. Look at the overreacting on the terrorism laws after 911. They trampled on everyone's rights. They could do the same with banging legal age hookers in the 3rd world.Dude there are hookers everywhere on earth. There is no need for any of us to even leave our hometowns to get hookers. Nobody is cracking down on prostitution, they are just cracking down on the outright advertisement of it.

How do you make an example of someone by not announcing the example? An example would be Cuba Dave, David 33, the Aussie board member that I met in Philippines who is now in a Philippine prison, or the guy that used to be in this thread that killed himself.

If you are flying under the radar, and not doing anything illegal then there are no examples to be made. If you are yelling from the top of the mountain telling people to check out all the hookers over here, messing with chicks that are not of age, trying to make money off of hookers then you are setting your own self up to be made an example of.

[JjBee62]

Anything is possible, but is it at all probable? You guys act like the man is going to walk through immigration cussing people out and making demands. And who even is this person that is supposed to be asking him to unlock his phone? Everytime I pass through, it is just simple security saying to put things on the belt and do you have anything in your pockets.

The time I was taken to the back it had nothing to do with that. I was actually in the front of the airport just hanging around waiting to check in or something and the guy came up to me and told me to come to the back room for a random search. You guys are acting like someone telling a passenger to unlock their phone is an everyday occurrence when it is not. Next up: what to do and not do when you get a snake bite in Botero Park.I believe I've said twice now that I consider the occurrence unlikely, so I'm not sure where you're getting that I'm acting like it's an everyday occurrence. As for his attitude with security, did you fail to read his "they can't do that to me" messages, or did you just skip them?

As for the probability of getting pulled aside for an additional search, gee Wally, I don't know. It doesn't matter where the extra search occurs, does it? Are we going to declare that nothing is considered an additional search unless it occurs within 4 meters of an airport security checkpoint? While we're at it let's declare no search is a search unless it happens on Tuesday between noon and 2 pm.

Why don't we keep this in the real world instead of your fantasy land where nothing that hasn't happened to you has ever happened. For example, in your fantasy land nobody has ever been robbed in Santa Fe or El Centro because you've never been robbed there. You've posted that sentiment dozens of times.

In the real world people get pulled aside and searched all the time. You've admitted it's happened to you, it's happened to me and several others have reported it has happened to them. It doesn't matter whether it happens in the airport or in front of the airport, or in Parque Lleras, or in a taxi somewhere on the road.

Has that part penetrated yet? Are you ready to accept that people get searched? If not, there's no point in anyone posting anything, because all activities are limited to your fantasy land.

Searches by people, who have the legal authority to conduct searches, of people who may or may not have committed any crime, happen. I just want to make sure that's clear, because you seem unable to accept it, even after admitting it has happened to you.

Do you have the legal right to refuse the search? That's the question. That's the only question. The probability of the search is irrelevant. Whether they are searching the contents of your luggage, your electronic devices or your colon is irrelevant. Again, I'm trying to be clear because for some reason you insist on saying that something, which has happened to you, will never happen.

My opinion, as I've stated several times, is that complying with the search is in your best interest. Refusing the search, claiming your Embassy will rescue you, or arguing with whoever is trying to perform the search is unlikely to yield the best results.

So, it boils down to a very simple question: Do you recommend people comply with legal requests from law enforcement, or do you recommend people refuse to comply.

As for snake bites in Plaza Botero, perhaps Paulie can explain logical fallacies to you.

Millions of people are bitten by venomous snakes every year, and about 100 k die. Are you trying to say, since it's unlikely to find a venomous snake in Plaza Botero, nobody anywhere in the world needs to worry about snakes? Are you suggesting that snake venom somehow works differently in Plaza Botero? I'm kind of lost here.

Oh. You're suggesting that since you've never been bitten by a snake in Plaza Botero, nobody in Colombia will ever be searched. Got it. I'm glad that's cleared up.

[JjBee62]

Dude there are hookers everywhere on earth. There is no need for any of us to even leave our hometowns to get hookers. Nobody is cracking down on prostitution, they are just cracking down on the outright advertisement of it.

How do you make an example of someone by not announcing the example? An example would be Cuba Dave, David 33, the Aussie board member that I met in Philippines who is now in a Philippine prison, or the guy that used to be in this thread that killed himself.

If you are flying under the radar, and not doing anything illegal then there are no examples to be made. If you are yelling from the top of the mountain telling people to check out all the hookers over here, messing with chicks that are not of age, trying to make money off of hookers then you are setting your own self up to be made an example of.Thanks for bringing up Cuba Dave, who I believe is currently living quietly in Medellin. I'm just going off of memory here, but wasn't he repeatedly searched, including searches of his computer? Well before the Costa Rica incident, back in his Sosua days, weren't they looking everywhere trying to find something to nail him on?

If so, it would seem to establish that someone having their phone searched can happen.

His case also clarifies what everyone else has been saying. They don't need to prove anything to detain you indefinitely. He was acquitted on appeal, which boils down to the court admitting he didn't break the law he was convicted of breaking.

Again, thank you for mentioning him because he's a perfect example of what you insist nobody has to worry about.

He was held for over a year in prison before his trial. He wasn't informed of his trial until the day before his trial. After his conviction was overturned he was held in prison for almost 3 more months while the government tried to overturn the appellate court decision. Nearly 2 years for doing nothing wrong.

Oops. I forgot that reality isn't allowed. Go right ahead with that "tell the cops you're untouchable" mentality.

[VasyaPetya]

I believe the term, in English is "failure to comply with a lawful search. " This appears to be news to you, but Colombia is not part of the United States. The rights you have in Colombia are not the same as in the United States. The Federal police in Colombia don't run and hide whenever some gringo threatens to call the US Embassy.

This is information you really need to get into your thick skull before you go to Colombia, because the learning curve if you decide to play the "I don't have to listen to you because I'm an American" card, is really steep.

I doubt if the police are going to ask you to unlock your phone, whether in the airport or Parque Lleras. However, it's a possibility. If it's a possibility, then you should be aware of your lack of any right to refuse. Several of us have tried to make you aware, but apparently you're immune to knowledge.

Now, what can they detain you for? Suspicion of human trafficking, suspicious of trafficking with children, suspicion of possession of child pornography, suspicion of drug smuggling. And guess how the US Embassy is going to react? Are they going to rush to the aid of a suspected trafficker and pedophile? When the police produce evidence, are they going to believe your story over the police, especially when the Embassy is the US agency conveying to Colombia that they want them to help find all of the above.

As I've said already, if you get pulled aside for a search, before you start in with your temper tantrum, get someone to video it. I'll do my part to make it go viral, which might generate enough income for your next of kin to get your body returned home after your fun-filled trip through the Colombian legal system.You seem to be immune to understanding what I actually wrote. As for your literal clown story you just wrote, I seriously have no words. Its laughable at best, but is actually sad in reality. Again, stop watching netflix.

[VasyaPetya]

Anything is possible, but is it at all probable? You guys act like the man is going to walk through immigration cussing people out and making demands. And who even is this person that is supposed to be asking him to unlock his phone? Everytime I pass through, it is just simple security saying to put things on the belt and do you have anything in your pockets.

The time I was taken to the back it had nothing to do with that. I was actually in the front of the airport just hanging around waiting to check in or something and the guy came up to me and told me to come to the back room for a random search. You guys are acting like someone telling a passenger to unlock their phone is an everyday occurrence when it is not. Next up: what to do and not do when you get a snake bite in Botero Park.Yeah dude, I don't get what's up with these people, they come up with the most ridiculous worst scenarios for something that doesn't even happen. Not everything is Midnight Express.

[VasyaPetya]

Of course you could remember you are a guest in their country. You could try being polite, friendly and cooperative even if you don't like what is being asked of you. Do that. And you'll likely have a very good experience here just leave the attitude at the US departure gate.What are you even talking about? Never did I say I wouldn't be polite. Get a grip guy.

[Manizales911]

Yeah dude, I don't get what's up with these people, they come up with the most ridiculous worst scenarios for something that doesn't even happen. Not everything is Midnight Express.I have had my phone AND Ipad searched on more than one occasion, so yeah it does happen. On one occasion they spent over two hours going through my FB messages, photos etc. If you refuse to unlock your electronics they will confiscate them. The USA Authorities told me they would keep them for 90 days and Canadian assholes told me the same. So who only knows what the Colombian authorities would do. Just delete your FB, Messenger and Whatsapp apps, move your photos to a cloud service and delete that app and if they ask to unlock your phone, do it. If you have nothing to hide you will be fine. Leave your vacation photos etc. On your phone but no photos of girls or drugs etc. The first time I had photos of my daughter on the phone and she was only 8 and I was 60 at the time and that set off a shitstorm for a few minutes, fortunately I also keep a photo of her birth certificate on my phone proving that she is my daughter. Better to be prepared and have nothing happen than to be unprepared and be the one to have it happen to you.

[Mr Enternational]

Thanks for bringing up Cuba Dave, who I believe is currently living quietly in Medellin. I'm just going off of memory here, but wasn't he repeatedly searched, including searches of his computer? Well before the Costa Rica incident, back in his Sosua days, weren't they looking everywhere trying to find something to nail him on?Looks like you skipped the part when I said fly under the radar. In other words, be a regular joe in the crowd. Cuba Dave was all over youtube telling people to come fuck these hookers over here and give them this much money. He wasn't just some random traveler that was told to unlock his electronics. And even after they told him to cut that shit out he kept doing it. Nobody did it to him, he did it to himself. Looks like he learned a lesson though.

[JjBee62]

You seem to be immune to understanding what I actually wrote. As for your literal clown story you just wrote, I seriously have no words. Its laughable at best, but is actually sad in reality. Again, stop watching netflix.Let's see if I understand.

1. A couple of people posted they recently witnessed people being pulled aside at the airport for extra inspection. Someone speculated it was for trafficking or porn.

2. You asked what they could do if you refused to unlock your phone.

3. Several people replied you could be detained.

4. You replied they couldn't detain you and that the Embassy was there to help you.

Does that capture the basic essence? Is there anything I missed? If not, it would appear the failure to understand doesn't lie with me.

You keep saying that those things never happen, but even MrE said it's happened to him. What part of that did you fail to understand? MrE did us the favor of bringing up both Cuba Dave and the guy whose name we're not allowed to mention. In both cases they were detained without trial. A quick search will confirm the details I've already posted.

You seem to believe the US Embassy is there for your benefit, and you throw a tantrum when anyone suggests otherwise. Did you throw as big of a fit when you learned Santa Claus wasn't real? Or did I just cause a meltdown for mentioning it?

The US Embassy anywhere in the world doesn't give a fuck about you. If you lose your passport they will help you get home. If you want to marry a hooker and bring her to the US, they'll help you.

However, if you get tossed in jail because you're too stupid to realize you're no longer in the US, you're shit out of luck. I don't even understand how you are planning to call the Embassy when some cop is holding your phone and asking you to unlock it. Even if you could, do you honestly believe someone is going to rush to the Bogota airport, jump on a plane to Medellin and tell them that you're exempt from being searched?

The only time the State Department is getting involved is if there's a big enough outcry in the US to create a public relations problem. Even if they do get involved your release could take months. Remember the retired Marine with PTSD who spent 8 months in a Mexican prison on gun charges?

If misconceptions and ignorance mated you would be the offspring.

[JjBee62]

Looks like you skipped the part when I said fly under the radar. In other words, be a regular joe in the crowd. Cuba Dave was all over youtube telling people to come fuck these hookers over here and give them this much money. He wasn't just some random traveler that was told to unlock his electronics. And even after they told him to cut that shit out he kept doing it. Nobody did it to him, he did it to himself. Looks like he learned a lesson though.Nope, I didn't skip it. It's just another irrelevancy you tossed in.

I'm all for discretion and I've said so in several scenarios. Just one example, when some hooker starts demanding more than you feel she deserves. My advice has always been to deescalate the situation, rather than blowing it up and getting the police involved. While the police might take your side, they might not and in most cases the potential savings are less than the potential risks. That doesn't mean you give any amount she asks for. It means you keep things friendly and cut your losses.

As for Cuba Dave, he was the first person charged under the law, which he didn't violate. Sure he was an obvious target, but what does it take to get targeted? I've heard about a guy on ISG who had his Global Entry revoked for no apparent reason, even though he keeps a low profile. That sounds suspiciously like someone got singled even though he's "a regular Joe in the crowd."

I'm still waiting for you to ATFQ (which is nuke for answer the fucking question). Are you recommending people comply with the police, for a lawful request, or not?

[JjBee62]

For most of the 20th century, International Harvester was a major manufacturer of trucks and farm equipment. Now the only remnant are Navistar International trucks.

They formerly built trucks in Fort Wayne, Indiana. In their old factory there used to be a swinger's club. I don't know if it's still there, it's been 16 years since my last visit there, which was for a Halloween party.

Halloween is the best time to go to a swinger's club. You get a lot of people who don't normally swing, but want to really **** it up for Halloween. Add in alcohol and I think the term is "off the hook."

Back to International Harvester. One of the pieces of farm equipment they built was a device for spreading organic fertilizer, manure, cow shit. Because of that bit of trivia, International trucks have the nickname "13 letter shit spreader."

ATFQ and RTFQ:

In the Navy nuke program we often wrote these acronyms on the student's tests (Yes, I did a tour as an instructor). Occasionally, the student would write the correct answer, but for the wrong question. That would earn them a RTFQ, read the fucking question.

More common were the students who had no clue what the correct answer was. Our tests required detailed answers, often with some rather intense formulas and math. Rather than leave a question blank, they would try the "baffle them with bullshit" approach. You write small, sloppy and ramble on all around the answer, but never get to the answer. That's when ATFQ came into play.

Here's the useful part of this post. If someone asks a question, answer the question. If you don't know the answer, don't answer. Don't spread 400 words of bullshit that have nothing to do with the question, just let someone who knows answer handle it.

And if you don't like the answers you get, register a complaint with the real world.

[Paulie97]

I'm all for discretion and I've said so in several scenarios. Just one example, when some hooker starts demanding more than you feel she deserves. My advice has always been to deescalate the situation, rather than blowing it up and getting the police involved. While the police might take your side, they might not and in most cases the potential savings are less than the potential risks. That doesn't mean you give any amount she asks for. It means you keep things friendly and cut your losses.Sounds good, but you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. If her extortion demand is very unreasonable, and you refuse to comply, then it's not going to be a "friendly" atmosphere where loses are cut. It's also disappointing that complying with the scam serves to perpetuate it. They do it because it works.

Your typical girl who shows up acting unreasonable will leave for 50 mil or the taxis, assuming no sex has started. A few years ago I had one in Costa Rica come to the room after agreeing to payment after, then demand that I place the whole fee, 50 mil colones (about $85) on the night stand. Your typical Costa Rican independent has at least passable English, so communication was no problem. I explained to her that putting the cash out where she could grab it any time was the same thing as sticking it in her pocket, and that this was not going to happen. She would be paid after as agreed. She then demanded the full fee of 50 mil colones for her "time," and without any sex, under threat of calling the police. I then called hotel security, which was a ruse, as I knew they wouldn't do anything, but it got her at the door, door wide open talking to the wuss security guy. And she hadn't disrobed yet so was fully clothed, her purse under her arm. Well that close to the door, ready to go, and an offer of $20 US and she decided to make her exit. She wasn't getting the whole $80 unless she did a sit in and the police told me to pay it or else.

There a reason why most men, at least in the West, don't deal with hookers. This is one of the reasons along with the fact that most put in little effort and are just laying there waiting for you to get off. But hey, this is a hooker forum, so we are about trying to make the best of these situations. Wink.

[Elvis 2008]

I'm still waiting for you to ATFQ (which is nuke for answer the fucking question). Are you recommending people comply with the police, for a lawful request, or not?When I have asked the question, why is Colombia so poor to a chica, EVERY chica has the same answer, government corruption.

How hard is it to put a photo with an underage chica on your phone? How about photo shopping one with you and her on it? Wouldn't Customs just need your phone number? If not that, there is wi fi, blu tooth ETC.

The counter to the argument "why not let the police search your premises if you have nothing to hide" is that the police may plant something. That is why our forefathers stated a neutral magistrate sign a search warrant and limit warrants. That you think the writers of the Constitution did not know what they are doing does not surprise me.

The correct answer when dealing with LE is almost always, "I am not saying or doing anything until I talk to a / my lawyer. " That is a position the American Embassy can be an advocate for.

I was completely compliant with a Mexican policeman who caught me speeding. I was in the wrong, and he could have done anything including taking me to jail. On the flip side, I had two Mexican cops search my wallet when I was using a Coke machine. I told them that if they took a penny, I would post on line about how corrupt the police in Cancun are and also inform my hotel management what they had done. They were actually afraid when I said that and took nothing.

The position you are advocating, to always suck government dick, is pretty stupid when dealing with countries as corrupt as Colombia. There are other paths than just being compliant or refusing.

[Villainy]

Totally agree.

I agree that there are those two for sure. They even mentioned the alcohol issue when I got my Global Entry. It was almost like "Yeah, like do not bring in any drugs, but if you bring in excess liquor and do not pay the customs duty, your global entry is done. " I kind of laughed at which one Customs took more seriously.

Knowledge, I am not so sure about this one. I have walked across the border and bought counterfeit handbags and declared them when I re-entered the country. The amount I bought was under the dollar limit for goods and there was no issue. Quite frankly, this was a Mexican border town and if Americans could not bring back these fake handbags into the USA, they would not be selling them, and the vendors were selling them in droves.

As to why Mr. E's GE was revoked, Mr. E has admitted to saying crazy things to customs like "I went to Colombia for the women", and he also admitted that he is completely oblivious to the idea that governments are cracking down on prostitution. He said they are just going after marketing. SMH.So, is your knowledge and advice about the Global Entry program on a par with your knowledge and advice about CoVid and how to deal with it?

[JjBee62]

Sounds good, but you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. If her extortion demand is very unreasonable, and you refuse to comply, then it's not going to be a "friendly" atmosphere where loses are cut. It's also disappointing that complying with the scam serves to perpetuate it. They do it because it works.

Your typical girl who shows up acting unreasonable will leave for 50 mil or the taxis, assuming no sex has started. A few years ago I had one in Costa Rica come to the room after agreeing to payment after, then demand that I place the whole fee, 50 mil colones (about $85) on the night stand. Your typical Costa Rican independent has at least passable English, so communication was no problem. I explained to her that putting the cash out where she could grab it any time was the same thing as sticking it in her pocket, and that this was not going to happen. She would be paid after as agreed. She then demanded the full fee of 50 mil colones for her "time," and without any sex, under threat of calling the police. I then called hotel security, which was a ruse, as I knew they wouldn't do anything, but it got her at the door, door wide open talking to the wuss security guy. And she hadn't disrobed yet so was fully clothed, her purse under her arm. Well that close to the door, ready to go, and an offer of $20 US and she decided to make her exit. She wasn't getting the whole $80 unless she did a sit in and the police told me to pay it or else..I think I've mentioned before that I'm somewhat selective of who comes to my room. If I'm uncertain about the girl I'll meet her at a public place. If I don't feel right about her, I'll make my excuses, pay her enough for her time and move on. That's only happened once.

Maybe it's luck, maybe it's skill, or maybe they just like me, but I've never encountered a scammer. I believe they exist, they are just outside of my experience.

I have run into a bunch of online scammers, the women who hit you up, then start asking for money. I've gotten to the point where I can recognize them within seconds.

However, it sounds like you followed my advice. Instead of turning it into a screaming match and having her call the police, you brought in the hotel, which is tentatively going to be on your side. You got her to a position where you were able to cut your losses and everyone went away happy.

The reason most men in the west, or at least the US, don't deal with hookers is because it's illegal and carries a heavy social stigma.

[Mr Enternational]

I've heard about a guy on ISG who had his Global Entry revoked for no apparent reason, even though he keeps a low profile. That sounds suspiciously like someone got singled even though he's "a regular Joe in the crowd."Pretty much the exact same thing happened to me dealing with Rappi. I had no problem making an order the first couple of times, then my account was restricted. I begged and pleaded with them to tell me what the problem was so that I could clear it up, but the same as global entry they said we can not divulge that information. They told me that I could open another account if I wanted some Rappi.

I asked what would happen with the 73 points that I had already accumulated. They said fuck your points. If you want Rappi then open a different account. Same as the govt said fuck the $100 you already paid us for global entry. If you want to try again with no idea of what the problem is then give us another $100. I did that and DENIED. Yesterday I opened another Rappi and verified an American Express and a Visa on my account. When I went to place an order it was the same fuck you, no food for you, as it had been with the previous account. Think they will tell me what the problem is this time?


Are you recommending people comply with the police, for a lawful request, or notWhen did the conversation turn to lawful requests? Last time I saw the conversation it was about unlocking your electronics for the Colombian authorities, but it was never established whether this is lawful or not. I only saw people yelling do whatever they tell you so you will not miss your flight or get framed.

[Elvis 2008]

So, is your knowledge and advice about the Global Entry program on a par with your knowledge and advice about CoVid and how to deal with it?What exactly is "my advice" on Covid? Last I checked, I was saying how little could be done about it. I advocated for the vaccine, have been vaccinated, but think it should should only be given by choice. It is time to admit how little the government has done worked.

You being the Democratic douche think if everyone is vaccinated Covid will miraculously go away and want to vaccinate everyone by force even 5 year olds. I guess you are in favor of banning unvaccinated people from restaurants and other public facilities even though the vaccine does not prevent transmission. Did I miss something?

The latest data from the UK shows that the vaccine once again does not prevent transmission and in households where Covid abounds the rate of getting Covid drops from 38 to 25% if you are vaccinated. I called the vaccine shitty and to me, this is more data showing how shitty the vaccine really is, and IMO it will continue to fade over time.

As for those who vote Democratic and can see when government is wrong (unlike you government dick sucking Democratic douches), we actually find common ground.

I did not find anything wrong with this Maher video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp3gy_CLXho.

Or this one on Covid origins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSfejgwbDQ8.

And now Maher and this Atlantic reporter are saying we need to say the pandemic is over: https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/just-get-back-living-bill-maher-declares-pandemic-over-says-you-shouldnt-have-wear-masks.

So tell me, douche, where are Bill Maher, Caitlin Flanagan, and Jon Stewart wrong, and where have you been right about anything?

It seems to me that your arrogance is based on the fact that everyone's on your side. Sorry, douche, but that is not true not even among people in your own party.

[MarquisdeSade1]

What exactly is "my advice" on Covid? Last I checked, I was saying how little could be done about it. I advocated for the vaccine, have been vaccinated, but think it should should only be given by choice. It is time to admit how little the government has done worked.

You being the Democratic douche think if everyone is vaccinated Covid will miraculously go away and want to vaccinate everyone by force even 5 year olds. I guess you are in favor of banning unvaccinated people from restaurants and other public facilities even though the vaccine does not prevent transmission. Did I miss something?

The latest data from the UK shows that the vaccine once again does not prevent transmission and in households where Covid abounds the rate of getting Covid drops from 38 to 25% if you are vaccinated. I called the vaccine shitty and to me, this is more data showing how shitty the vaccine really is, and IMO it will continue to fade over time.

As for those who vote Democratic and can see when government is wrong (unlike you government dick sucking Democratic douches), we actually find common ground..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cx7VnKMZew4

[JjBee62]

Pretty much the exact same thing happened to me dealing with Rappi. I had no problem making an order the first couple of times, then my account was restricted. I begged and pleaded with them to tell me what the problem was so that I could clear it up, but the same as global entry they said we can not divulge that information. They told me that I could open another account if I wanted some Rappi.

I asked what would happen with the 73 points that I had already accumulated. They said fuck your points. If you want Rappi then open a different account. Same as the govt said fuck the $100 you already paid us for global entry. If you want to try again with no idea of what the problem is then give us another $100. I did that and DENIED. Yesterday I opened another Rappi and verified an American Express and a Visa on my account. When I went to place an order it was the same fuck you, no food for you, as it had been with the previous account. Think they will tell me what the problem is this time?.Welcome to the world of bureaucracy. I once spent 6 weeks unable to visit my doctor or fill my prescriptions after a work injury that took 18 months to recover from. The insurance company was paying me to stay home, but refused to pay my medical expenses. For 6 weeks I couldn't get into or out of my own bed. I could only sleep in 20 minute stretches, because the slightest movement would wake me up yelling from the pain. Every day I called to find out why they wouldn't pay for a doctor visit and every day I was told to call back the next day.

After 6 weeks I retained a lawyer and in 2 hours I I had an appointment with one of the top orthopedic surgeons in San Diego. If they had just told me my doctor wasn't submitting the paperwork how they wanted it probably would have saved them $100 k. Instead they had to pay some very expensive doctors and physical therapists, plus a bunch more.

It's not required to make sense.


When did the conversation turn to lawful requests? Last time I saw the conversation it was about unlocking your electronics for the Colombian authorities, but it was never established whether this is lawful or not. I only saw people yelling do whatever they tell you so you will not miss your flight or get framed.I've been talking about lawful requests from the start. I don't know every Colombian law, or every law applied to international air travel. However, if you go back several years you'll remember the uproar when the public learned that DHS was intercepting text messages and phone calls. They were even pulling out the nudes people were sending and passing them around.

With the addition of SESTA / FOSTA I assume asking travelers to unlock phones and laptops is within their rights. Add in the difference between the US and Colombian legal systems, I doubt if it matters whether the request is legal in Colombia. It seems like something that would need to be ruled on by the Colombian Supreme Court, and you could be detained for years before that happens.

Have you heard of "the law of gross tonnage?" If you're in a 3000 lb car and an 80,000 lb truck wants you to yield, you're going to yield, whether by choice or by force. I apply that law to anyone who has the power to either throw me in a cell, or put me in a grave. Unless the action being requested puts me at greater risk than compliance, I'm going to bypass the demanding anything route. I'm putting on a smile and getting through it.

In my experience that's not only the quickest solution, it's the cheapest.

Back in March I was stopped for a vehicle inspection in Canada. Mechanically there was only 1 minor issue. However, there were paperwork problems (not my responsibility) that could have stuck me there for at least 8 hours and resulted in a few thousand in fines. Instead of being combative, I made nice and I was out in 45 minutes, with a $74 fine and a list of things for my boss to fix.

[PVMonger]

What exactly is "my advice" on Covid? Last I checked, I was saying how little could be done about it. I advocated for the vaccine, have been vaccinated, but think it should should only be given by choice. It is time to admit how little the government has done worked.

You being the Democratic douche think if everyone is vaccinated Covid will miraculously go away and want to vaccinate everyone by force even 5 year olds. I guess you are in favor of banning unvaccinated people from restaurants and other public facilities even though the vaccine does not prevent transmission. Did I miss something?

The latest data from the UK shows that the vaccine once again does not prevent transmission and in households where Covid abounds the rate of getting Covid drops from 38 to 25% if you are vaccinated. I called the vaccine shitty and to me, this is more data showing how shitty the vaccine really is, and IMO it will continue to fade over time.

As for those who vote Democratic and can see when government is wrong (unlike you government dick sucking Democratic douches), we actually find common ground..Since the COVID vaccines are "shitty" (your words), then you also admit that Operation Dork Speed was an abject failure and a colossal waste of money, right? After all, what idiot would throw away that much money without even getting a performance bond?

[Mr Enternational]

It seems like something that would need to be ruled on by the Colombian Supreme Court, and you could be detained for years before that happens.
Unless the action being requested puts me at greater risk than compliance, I'm going to bypass the demanding anything route. I'm putting on a smile and getting through it.Again, could be and will be are different things. You could be struck by lightning today so you better stay inside. The chances of you being detained for not opening a stupid phone, I would say are close to zero, same as the chances of you getting struck by lightning today. Are you really going to walk outside and challenge that lightning?

I understand that you will just do whatever you are told in order to get out of it the quickest and easiest way. If everybody was about that life then unjust laws would never get changed. Somebody has to fight for what they believe in sometimes although it may inconvenience them or cost them money. If I was about that life then there is no telling how much money I would have given to Dominican police up until today.

But there is a saying that goes, "I got time today!" If you believe you are being told some bullshit then ask to see where it is written. Or even ask to see a supervisor.

I remember going through security at the airport in Honduras and those mfs took my small packets of mustard and incense. I was furious. I asked to see it in writing or talk to a supervisor. They went and got the supervisor and he told me it was not allowed. In other cases people have gone to get the supervisor and they said things were actually allowed. In the Dominican Republic bih tried to tell me I could not bring my hot sauce because I could throw it into someone's eyes. She went and got a supervisor. I took my mechanical pencil and did a quick motion to her eyes with it. They got my point (going to take the hot sauce, but not take this pencil for the same reason) and let me bring the hot sauce that I had brought many times before and still many times after. So don't be afraid to ask for a higher authority.

In Santo Domingo I was coming back from a motel with a street walker. I saw the police hot on my tail and I know their game so I was trying to outrun them. I turned the corner and told the chick to get out, but they were able to catch up to me because of that little stop. They blocked the car in the middle of the street, but I tried to go around them. One dude hopped off the back of the bike and pulled his gun out and pointed it at my front left tire. Then I stopped.

They told me that what I did was illegal (never really saying what it was that I did). I told them to show me the law that says that. They told me they did not have to show me. I said yes you do. I said well get a supervisor out here to show me. They pretended to call someone and said they would arrive soon. We sat there in a south of the border standoff for about 10 minutes,. Sometimes quietly and sometimes with them trying to convince me that I had fucked up. They finally let me go after realizing I was not about to offer any money. Then I said no, no let's wait for the supervisor because I really wanted to see the law. They said man get the hell out of here. See, I had time that day!

To answer your question, yes I would recommend someone comply with a lawful order, but if they are not sure whether it is lawful or not, then do not be afraid ask to be shown the code giving them the authority to ask for what they are asking for or ask for a higher authority that can verify they are allowed to be asking for that. Don't just roll over and do whatever is being asked because it "could" cost you time or money.

[Villainy]

What exactly is "my advice" on Covid? Last I checked, I was saying how little could be done about it. I advocated for the vaccine, have been vaccinated, but think it should should only be given by choice. It is time to admit how little the government has done worked.

You being the Democratic douche think if everyone is vaccinated Covid will miraculously go away and want to vaccinate everyone by force even 5 year olds. I guess you are in favor of banning unvaccinated people from restaurants and other public facilities even though the vaccine does not prevent transmission. Did I miss something?

The latest data from the UK shows that the vaccine once again does not prevent transmission and in households where Covid abounds the rate of getting Covid drops from 38 to 25% if you are vaccinated. I called the vaccine shitty and to me, this is more data showing how shitty the vaccine really is, and IMO it will continue to fade over time.

As for those who vote Democratic and can see when government is wrong (unlike you government dick sucking Democratic douches), we actually find common ground..First I think I said "knowledge and advice about CoVid". Of course, I must be a "democratic douche" because I don't think you have a clue about anything. In Elvis World anyone who disagrees with you must by definition be a "democratic douche". So let's test a few of your famous statements.

1. You were arguing with JjBee62 about 1 1/2 years ago. You always argue with him because he intimidates you. He is just a lot more knowledgeable that you are.

Well the argument was about the severity of the CoVid crisis as it hit the US. You predicted that there would not be 80,000 deaths. Well news flash. If you go to WorldoMeter (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) you will see that the US number of deaths is rapidly approaching 800,000. So you were off by a factor of 10.

2. My personal favorite. For some reason you think lock-downs were a terrible idea. You have ranted on and on about it. You even pointed out that Sweden was following your approach by not closing down their businesses. Now your idea is bonkers. The only point you COULD have made was that lock-downs work but are unsustainable. But let's just look at Sweden and see what happened. Let's look at their neighbors. Why? Norway, Finland and Denmark all have similar population genetics, similar climates and except for Denmark similar population densities. These neighboring counties followed the WHO recommendations and locked-down for as long as they could. So 1 1/2 years later what are the results?? (Using WorldoMeters again).

Sweden. 11.5% CoVid cases amount to 11.5% of the population.

Norway 3.8% CoVid cases amount to 3.8% of the population.

Finland 2.9% CoVid cases amount to 2.9% of the population.

Denmark 6.7% CoVid cases amount to 6.7% of the population.

A rational person should conclude that what Norway, Finland and Denmark did was a hell of a lot better that what Sweden did. I'm sure you'll rationalize your rant with something absurd. You see, Sweden did a lot better than Montenegro. Even though Montenegro doesn't have anything in common with Sweden. Hey maybe they kept everything open too?

3. Another astounding piece of Elvis analysis. You recently claimed Colombia was a great example of why lock-downs don't work. You went on to claim that once Colombia ended the lock-downs the spread of virus abated.

Well that is sequentially correct but, of course, your causation claim is absurd in its entirety. What really happened was that people in Colombia don't generally doubt the efficacy of the vaccine. Today 42% are fully vaccinated and 59% have had at least one shot. Those numbers are slowing rising every single day.

What caused the rate of infection to drop from June to now wasn't the removal of restrictions it was the introduction and wide-spread implementation of the vaccine.

So yes, I'm a democratic douche because I think you don't understand anything about statistics or analysis. You mouth off whatever you think at some isolated moment in time and it bears no resemblance to reality.

[JustTK]

I saw a few days ago reports of a study published in Bloomberg, Fortune, BBC, Guardian (look them up on search "vaccinated just as likely to spread virus as unvaccinated" that verify that the vaxd are just as transmissable WRT the virus as the unvaxd. So the vaxd and the unvaxd are equally as likely to pass the virus on to any vulnerable / imuno-compromised person.

So now it is really indisputable that the unvaxd are only an increased danger to themselves. So there is no more excuse for the persecution of the unvaxd to continue.

[Mr Enternational]

I saw a few days ago reports of a study published in Bloomberg, Fortune, BBC, Guardian (look them up on search "vaccinated just as likely to spread virus as unvaccinated" that verify that the vaxd are just as transmissable WRT the virus as the unvaxd. So the vaxd and the unvaxd are equally as likely to pass the virus on to any vulnerable / imuno-compromised person.

So now it is really indisputable that the unvaxd are only an increased danger to themselves. So there is no more excuse for the persecution of the unvaxd to continue.The type of rationale during this thing has been inconceivable to me. If you are vaxed then it is okay for you to come in and spead the disease around. If you are unvaxed, don't you dare come in here and spread the disease that you don't have around. So it is better for a vaxed person that is infected to come in than an unvaxed person that is not infected? If you are vaxed with the disease then we are happy to continue being your employer. If you are unvaxed without the disease then turn in your ID. What logically should matter is if the person is infected, regardless of their vaccination status.

The world has gone crazy. Nobody ever came and made sure I was wearing a condom so I would not get AIDS, never came to make sure I was wrapped up so I did not catch pneumonia, never came to make sure my seat belt was on so I did not die in an accident, never made sure my shoes were tied so I did not trip and fall. But now everyone is dead set on making sure I am vaxed so I don't get Covid to the point that I can not work or enter certain establishments without being so. This type of thinking must be well beyond my paygrade or from another world.

[JustTK]

The world has gone crazy. This type of thinking must be well beyond my paygrade or from another world.I think that they are yet to confirm one side effect of taking the vaccine. It fcks with your ability to think logically while at the same time making you ever more certain that your correct. Basically it gives you Dunning Kruger.

[ShooBree]

First I think I said "knowledge and advice about CoVid". Of course, I must be a "democratic douche" because I don't think you have a clue about anything. In Elvis World anyone who disagrees with you must by definition be a "democratic douche". So let's test a few of your famous statements.

1. You were arguing with JjBee62 about 1 1/2 years ago. You always argue with him because he intimidates you. He is just a lot more knowledgeable that you are.

Well the argument was about the severity of the CoVid crisis as it hit the US. You predicted that there would not be 80,000 deaths. Well news flash. If you go to WorldoMeter (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/) you will see that the US number of deaths is rapidly approaching 800,000. So you were off by a factor of 10.

2. My personal favorite. For some reason you think lock-downs were a terrible idea. You have ranted on and on about it. You even pointed out that Sweden was following your approach by not closing down their businesses. Now your idea is bonkers. The only point you COULD have made was that lock-downs work but are unsustainable. But let's just look at Sweden and see what happened. Let's look at their neighbors. Why? Norway, Finland and Denmark all have similar population genetics, similar climates and except for Denmark similar population densities. These neighboring counties followed the WHO recommendations and locked-down for as long as they could..I see that you're cherry-picking, how about the lockdowns in France, Italy, Belgium, Spain and Portugal? You have no idea what would have happened if Denmark, Norway and Finland had refrained from the lockdowns. You're just guessing and cherry-picking.

The only thing we actually do know for certain is that a lockdown isn't a guarantee for anything.

And you're obviously a rabid racist assuming neighboring countries to be the same and unable to have anything in common with other countries. You're embarrassing yourself.

[JjBee62]

Again, could be and will be are different things. You could be struck by lightning today so you better stay inside. The chances of you being detained for not opening a stupid phone, I would say are close to zero, same as the chances of you getting struck by lightning today. Are you really going to walk outside and challenge that lightning?

I understand that you will just do whatever you are told in order to get out of it the quickest and easiest way. If everybody was about that life then unjust laws would never get changed. Somebody has to fight for what they believe in sometimes although it may inconvenience them or cost them money. If I was about that life then there is no telling how much money I would have given to Dominican police up until today.

But there is a saying that goes, "I got time today!" If you believe you are being told some bullshit then ask to see where it is written. Or even ask to see a supervisor.

I remember going through security at the airport in Honduras and those mfs took my small packets of mustard and incense. I was furious. I asked to see it in writing or talk to a supervisor. They went and got the supervisor and he told me it was not allowed. In other cases people have gone to get the supervisor and they said things were actually allowed. In the Dominican Republic bih tried to tell me I could not bring my hot sauce because I could throw it into someone's eyes. She went and got a supervisor. I took my mechanical pencil and did a quick motion to her eyes with it. They got my point (going to take the hot sauce, but not take this pencil for the same reason) and let me bring the hot sauce that I had brought many times before and still many times after. So don't be afraid to ask for a higher authority.

In Santo Domingo I was coming back from a motel with a street walker. I saw the police hot on my tail and I know their game so I was trying to outrun them. I turned the corner and told the chick to get out, but they were able to catch up to me because of that little stop. They blocked the car in the middle of the street, but I tried to go around them. One dude hopped off the back of the bike and pulled his gun out and pointed it at my front left tire. Then I stopped.

They told me that what I did was illegal (never really saying what it was that I did). I told them to show me the law that says that. They told me they did not have to show me. I said yes you do. I said well get a supervisor out here to show me. They pretended to call someone and said they would arrive soon. We sat there in a south of the border standoff for about 10 minutes,. Sometimes quietly and sometimes with them trying to convince me that I had fucked up. They finally let me go after realizing I was not about to offer any money. Then I said no, no let's wait for the supervisor because I really wanted to see the law. They said man get the hell out of here. See, I had time that day!

To answer your question, yes I would recommend someone comply with a lawful order, but if they are not sure whether it is lawful or not, then do not be afraid ask to be shown the code giving them the authority to ask for what they are asking for or ask for a higher authority that can verify they are allowed to be asking for that. Don't just roll over and do whatever is being asked because it "could" cost you time or money.Will you ever get away from the false comparisons? Or is that just how you operate?

I could get struck by lightning, but all I have to do is look out the window and make a really good assessment of the risk. And if it's storming with lots of lightning, what is there for me to do outside, other than get wet? It's not like it's a good time to mow the yard, or go golfing. It's not a good time to clean the gutters. It's not even a good time to walk the streets and look for hookers because, and this is the tricky part, it's in the middle of a storm.

However, if I am in an airport, remember that this all started in the airport, there are 2 important facts to consider. First, I have a need to be at the airport. I'm not just there to pay more for the same lunch I can get outside the airport. Second, I have entered an area where the risk of being searched increases significantly. For example, I've never had a K9 unit sniffing my luggage in Walmart, but it's happened to me at the Medellin and Bogota airports. I've never had my luggage opened and checked while walking in the park, but my last 3 trips I found a note from TSA inside my checked bag stating it had been searched.

Are you with me, or are you still trying to figure out how to get a car, a Dominican hooker and some hot sauce inside of the Medellin airport? Doesn't just about every airport sell hot sauce in a store by the departure gates? Seems like an unnecessary hassle to me.

If I'm at an airport, I don't have an unlimited amount of time I'm willing to waste over something that has zero benefit to me. Maybe you're different and spending half a day or more arguing over something that doesn't matter is more fun than being in a nice hotel with a hot girl. Myself, I just want to get the tedium of the airport behind me. So, if I'm at the airport and I get pulled for an extra inspection, I'm not wasting my day arguing over whether or not they have the legal right to check whatever they want to check, including my phone.

Do you notice what's different between the scenario being discussed and the scenario you keep bringing up? For one, I don't believe it's possible to drive a car through an airport metal detector or body scanner. For another, even if they decide to do a body cavity search, no hot sauce is required or desired. There's also no hooker, because, even though I like the bajitas, they won't fit into my pockets.

Finally, there's been no attempt to collect a bribe. On the street, driving a car in Santo Domingo, sure. On the street in Tijuana, or in many places throughout Medellin, also a possibility. Inside the airport, inside the security perimeter? I would say the likelihood of being offered a chance to buy your way out of the inspection is pretty slim. I would also say that offering a bribe, in that situation is a bad idea.

So either tell me that you always drive a car, with a hooker inside, through airport security, or stop with the false comparisons.

I can completely understand in the situation you keep bringing up, which has no relationship whatsoever with the situation being discussed, you're usually better off standing on your rights.

Fight for what you believe in? Other than hot sauce, what exactly is it you believe in? And how is insisting on your right to carry hot sauce changing any unjust laws? MLK Jr probably wouldn't have accomplished anything if all he talked about was hot sauce and hookers. And arguing with some underpaid cop in the airport probably isn't going to ignite social reform.

"I have time today." It's funny you mentioned that. I have time today to write this and I probably won't get struck by lightning. However, the most valuable thing anyone has is time. Most people don't understand that until they are all out of time. Much of my time is spent around my work. Although I can multitask, my options for my time are limited. Because of that, when my time is completely my own I don't throw it away like some kid with his allowance in a candy store. I try to spend my time with things I want to do. That could be sightseeing, meeting old and new friends, enjoying a good meal, learning something or getting laid. If those options aren't available, there's always resting and reading.

Given a choice of any of the above and arguing with some Colombian Customs, Immigration or Police Officer, guess what I'm not wasting time on. Whoever is asking to inspect anything at all isn't the one making the rules. He's just following orders. Arguing with him makes as much sense as screaming at a waitress because your food wasn't cooked properly.

[MarquisdeSade1]

What exactly is "my advice" on Covid? Last I checked, I was saying how little could be done about it. I advocated for the vaccine, have been vaccinated, but think it should should only be given by choice. It is time to admit how little the government has done worked.

You being the Democratic douche think if everyone is vaccinated Covid will miraculously go away and want to vaccinate everyone by force even 5 year olds. I guess you are in favor of banning unvaccinated people from restaurants and other public facilities even though the vaccine does not prevent transmission. Did I miss something?

The latest data from the UK shows that the vaccine once again does not prevent transmission and in households where Covid abounds the rate of getting Covid drops from 38 to 25% if you are vaccinated. I called the vaccine shitty and to me, this is more data showing how shitty the vaccine really is, and IMO it will continue to fade over time.

As for those who vote Democratic and can see when government is wrong (unlike you government dick sucking Democratic douches), we actually find common ground.

I did not find anything wrong with this Maher video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp3gy_CLXho..https://news.yahoo.com/fully-vaccinated-people-pass-delta-123654331.html?guccounter=1

[JjBee62]

I saw a few days ago reports of a study published in Bloomberg, Fortune, BBC, Guardian (look them up on search "vaccinated just as likely to spread virus as unvaccinated" that verify that the vaxd are just as transmissable WRT the virus as the unvaxd. So the vaxd and the unvaxd are equally as likely to pass the virus on to any vulnerable / imuno-compromised person.

So now it is really indisputable that the unvaxd are only an increased danger to themselves. So there is no more excuse for the persecution of the unvaxd to continue.You seem to be using that word wrong. There are still people arguing that the earth is flat, so a recently released study doesn't mean something is indisputable. In this case, if I'm seeing the same study there seem to be a few salient points you glossed over. Let's toss them in so nobody thinks you're being intentionally dishonest.

1. The study covers the risk of infected people infecting others with the Delta variant within their own households. That's hardly earthshaking news. Within your own household you're around those people throughout your total infectious period, so if you're infected, vaccinated or not, shouldn't make much difference in your own household.

2. Vaccinated are less likely to get infected. Uninfected people, vaccinated or not can't infect others. Since a vaccinated person is less likely to be infected, they are less likely to infect others.

3. On average, vaccinated people clear the infectious period quicker than unvaccinated people. Although this is not significant within your household, it's a factor if you leave your household. Shorter infectious period means less opportunity to infect people who you are only occasionally or briefly around.

And to address your addendum post:

Studies also indicate that significant loss of brain tissue is a common occurrence for people who have had COVID. Since unvaccinated people are more likely to contract the disease and are more likely to have serious symptoms. Well perhaps you should reconsider your remarks.

When reading a study it's usually beneficial to read beyond the title.

[Mr Enternational]

I would say the likelihood of being offered a chance to buy your way out of the inspection is pretty slim.As I have said the chance of even being asked to unlock your electronics (the reason for this drawnout discusssion in the first place) is slim same as you say buying your way out of it would be. Again, anything COULD happen, but what are the chances of it actually happening. That is what the lightning example was about, probability, not a direct comparison to what happens inside of an airport as you are falsely making it out to have been.


Given a choice of any of the above and arguing with some Colombian Customs, Immigration or Police Officer, guess what I'm not wasting time on. Arguing with him makes as much sense as screaming at a waitress because your food wasn't cooked properly.Why does there have to be an argument? Even the original person that said he would not unlock his electronics said nothing about not being polite to people when everyone that responded assumed he would be responding in an impolite, boisterous, and conceited manner. Getting clarification does not mean there is an argument.


Whoever is asking to inspect anything at all isn't the one making the rules. He's just following orders. How do you know he is following orders? Moreover, if he was following orders, how do you know the orders he was given were legal? He could be acting on his own thinking he is doing something good and beneficial, or he could even have misunderstood orders. Have you ever done something in a different way than you were taught or were supposed to be doing it? I certainly have.

To nip this in the bud, please show where it is legal for the people at the airport in Colombia to ask passengers to unlock their electronic devices. And if you can not do that then I will gladly go to them and ask when I leave Colombia 2 days from now.

[Villainy]

I see that you're cherry-picking, how about the lockdowns in France, Italy, Belgium, Spain and Portugal? You have no idea what would have happened if Denmark, Norway and Finland had refrained from the lockdowns. You're just guessing and cherry-picking.

The only thing we actually do know for certain is that a lockdown isn't a guarantee for anything.

And you're obviously a rabid racist assuming neighboring countries to be the same and unable to have anything in common with other countries. You're embarrassing yourself.I see your a proud graduate of the Elvis school of illogic. I said that Sweden has strong genetic similarities with its neighbors Norway, Finland and Denmark.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/16/a-revealing-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-ethnically-diverse-countries/

If you are capable of reading a map you will see that Norway, Sweden, Finland and Denmark are among the most genetically homogenous. In addition they have very similar climatic characteristics and with the exception of Denmark very strong population density similarities as well. This makes them a perfect group to compare and contrast.

Obviously you think that is cherrypicking. I question whether you have ever seen the inside of a math or statistics textbook.

As to your first silly comment that lockdowns aren't a guarantee for anything. So why is it that countries that insituted strong lockdowns and were able to sustain them for considerable periods of time have such low rates of CoVid?

Singapore, South Korea, Japan, New Zealand, Vietnam, Taiwan, Indonesia and Australia.

I'm sorry I guess I'm tilting at windmills trying to demonstrate simple statistical correlations to a graduate of the Elvis school of logical nonsense.

[Elvis 2008]

So yes, I'm a democratic douche because I think you don't understand anything about statistics or analysis. You mouth off whatever you think at some isolated moment in time and it bears no resemblance to reality.You are a Democratic douche because you are bringing the same shit over here after boring the crap out of everyone on the American Politics board. You are a Democratic douche because you are attacking me and not the position everyone agrees with.

The WHO said the only reason for lockdowns was the temporary spread in the delay of cases. Got that douche? Lockdowns do not prevent the spread of Covid. Bill Maher spoke out against lockdowns, and the entire world save for a few places are coming out of it.

The reason cases in Colombia are lower is the vaccine? Uh, no, douche, the vaccine does not prevent the spread of Covid. That is a fact, deal with it.

Stanford analyzed all the interventions and showed that doing a little intervention like Sweden had the same results as extreme lockdowns. That is science, douche, not picking out a few countries and getting the results you want. You can pick 4 points on a graph and argue anything. Correlation does not equal causation.

JJBee is smarter than me? The guy who spread Covid across 2 continents and was so stupid that he did not know what he had? He got it, and I did not after being exposed hundreds of times, and he is smarter than me? Uh, okay.

Let me ask you something douche. As for my prediction being wrong, did YOU predict a 100 million Americans would get sick with Covid despite everything that was done? After all the debt we went into and businesses and supply lines destroyed, given that 1 in 3 Americans got Covid anyway, did we accomplish anything? Thing that I did predict is that the "scientists" would say no bad how things got that they would not admit to fucking up. They would say, "Can you imagine if we did nothing?

Yeah, I can and I do not think it would not have been a helluva lot different with Covid if we had done "nothing: and left the economy alone. I think would be in a helluva lot better shape. Again, do not harm. Only destroy the economy if you are sure it will save lives.

As for Democrats being so stupid that 75% of them think that there is a 25+% chance of being hospitalized with Covid, that sounds about right. The Democratic news channels scared the shit out of everyone and accused Trump of not caring about Covid. That worked great until Biden came in and nothing changed. Hell, you douches are blaming the vaccine's lack of effectiveness on Trump. LOL.

You have not seen the last of this. $30 billion in goods off the California coast that cannot be unloaded, oil and gas prices through the roof. The whole notion that you can just print money, inflate the stock market, and not deal with inflation? Ha! Paying people to not work? Firing needed workers who refuse to get a shitty vaccine that does not prevent transmission? Fucking Brilliant!

The supply chains are fucked for years. Johnny may not get the toy he wants for Christmas, and the country I grew up that was shell shocked in the 70's with gas lines is running out of everything. AGAIN! Airlines are cancelling thousands of flight every week likely screwing things up for the holidays. Outside of gasoline, I do not recall seeing a shortage in my fucking life.

Jobs return but lives never do? Actually, what what happened is the economy has been decimated and a 100 million people got Covid anyway. Woo hoo!

Get your popcorn ready douches because the stupid path we took and that you are defending has not come to an end. Oh no, the bill has just come due for this 18 month holiday, and you douches are going to see that you reap what you sow. Enjoy the decline and just remember this is what you wanted, economic destruction.

[JjBee62]

As I have said the chance of even being asked to unlock your electronics (the reason for this drawnout discusssion in the first place) is slim same as you say buying your way out of it would be. Again, anything COULD happen, but what are the chances of it actually happening. That is what the lightning example was about, probability, not a direct comparison to what happens inside of an airport as you are falsely making it out to have been.

Why does there have to be an argument? Even the original person that said he would not unlock his electronics said nothing about not being polite to people when everyone that responded assumed he would be responding in an impolite, boisterous, and conceited manner. Getting clarification does not mean there is an argument.

How do you know he is following orders? Moreover, if he was following orders, how do you know the orders he was given were legal? He could be acting on his own thinking he is doing something good and beneficial, or he could even have misunderstood orders. Have you ever done something in a different way than you were taught or were supposed to be doing it? I certainly have. .https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/publications/blt/2020/04/border-searches/

As requested, nipped in the bus. This is about searches at the US border, which are allowed if the officer has reasonable suspicion.

Regarding Colombia in particular, I've already given you the answer to that. You can use the sequence of events which led to the 4th and 9th Circuit Court rulings. I'll even help you.

1. The government began searching devices at the border after DHS lawyers decided they had the right.

2. A legal challenge to the government right to search electronic devices at the border was filed.

3. The courts ruled determining when such searches are allowed.

Pretty fucking simple. If Colombia is at step 1 the search is legal. If Colombia is at Step 2 the search is legal, although at a later date it may be ruled to have been illegal. If Colombia is past Step 3, depending on the outcome of Step 2 the search is almost certainly legal. If it is illegal it is up to you to prove to the court it was illegal.

Now to deal with the rest of your delusions. Others have reported having their devices searched, so it obviously can happen. How likely it is to happen depends on a lot of variables. If you've been searching for certain things or visiting certain websites, the chance increases. If some official has decided to start a crusade the chance increases. If you're connected with a person being investigated the chance increases. The chance of someone pulling up beside me and shooting at me is tint. However it happened to a coworker.

Here's the important part. Try to pay attention. When something happens, the likelihood of it happening doesn't matter. At all. Not the teeniest, tiniest little bit. What matters is how you respond. If I've got a lottery ticket that matches all the numbers for a $400 million jackpot, should I throw it away because it's unlikely?

I'f someone starts shooting at me, I know what to do. If I get run of the road, I know what to do. And in the unlikely event I'm asked to unlock my phone, I know what to do. Arguing about the likelihood won't get me on the plane. Waiting in some little room for some official government response to my questions about the legality of the request doesn't get me on the plane. Sitting in jail with my phone in the evidence locker waiting for a court date doesn't get me on the plane. Know what does get me on the plane? Unlocking the phone.

How do I know the guy asking me to unlock the phone is following orders? Because he's in an area where he's almost certainly being observed. Because he's asking something which some people will object to. Because a certain amount of expertise is needed to do a thorough search. Because he almost certainly doesn't get paid enough to take initiative that could cost him his job. Need any more reasons?

And finally, how does asking one person at the airport a question about the legality of a search provide a definitive answer? I can spend the next 3 weeks giving examples showing how completely useless that is. That's almost as definitive as asking someone driving a car what's the proper valve lash on a Gen 1 413 hemi with solid rockers.

[MarquisdeSade1]

What exactly is "my advice" on Covid? Last I checked, I was saying how little could be done about it. I advocated for the vaccine, have been vaccinated, but think it should should only be given by choice. It is time to admit how little the government has done worked.

You being the Democratic douche think if everyone is vaccinated Covid will miraculously go away and want to vaccinate everyone by force even 5 year olds. I guess you are in favor of banning unvaccinated people from restaurants and other public facilities even though the vaccine does not prevent transmission. Did I miss something?

The latest data from the UK shows that the vaccine once again does not prevent transmission and in households where Covid abounds the rate of getting Covid drops from 38 to 25% if you are vaccinated. I called the vaccine shitty and to me, this is more data showing how shitty the vaccine really is, and IMO it will continue to fade over time.

As for those who vote Democratic and can see when government is wrong (unlike you government dick sucking Democratic douches), we actually find common ground.

I did not find anything wrong with this Maher video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp3gy_CLXho.

Or this one on Covid origins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSfejgwbDQ8.

And now Maher and this Atlantic reporter are saying we need to say the pandemic is over: https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/just-get-back-living-bill-maher-declares-pandemic-over-says-you-shouldnt-have-wear-masks..https://www.newsmax.com/thewire/madonna-cancel-culture-artists-free-speech/2021/11/02/id/1042966/

[JjBee62]

The type of rationale during this thing has been inconceivable to me. If you are vaxed then it is okay for you to come in and spead the disease around. If you are unvaxed, don't you dare come in here and spread the disease that you don't have around. So it is better for a vaxed person that is infected to come in than an unvaxed person that is not infected? If you are vaxed with the disease then we are happy to continue being your employer. If you are unvaxed without the disease then turn in your ID. What logically should matter is if the person is infected, regardless of their vaccination status.

The world has gone crazy. Nobody ever came and made sure I was wearing a condom so I would not get AIDS, never came to make sure I was wrapped up so I did not catch pneumonia, never came to make sure my seat belt was on so I did not die in an accident, never made sure my shoes were tied so I did not trip and fall. But now everyone is dead set on making sure I am vaxed so I don't get Covid to the point that I can not work or enter certain establishments without being so. This type of thinking must be well beyond my paygrade or from another world.Let's start with the beginning. I can't speak for your employer, but I can relate the rules established by my employer April 2020. These rules have not changed since the availability of the vaccines.

If you are experiencing any symptoms of Covid you are not allowed to come to work. You are required to either get a negative Covid test or remain away from work for 14 days before returning to work. If you choose to not get tested and take the 14 day quarantine option, you can use available PTO days and you will not be terminated for your absence. If you get tested and test positive the company will pay you for your 14 day quarantine.

If you report to work with symptoms, you will be sent home without pay and require a Covid test. Failure to get tested will result in termination of employment.

Vaccinated or unvaccinated doesn't matter here. What matters is knowingly exposing others. We are a critical, core industry. If we have an outbreak and have to shut down, almost every industry will have to shut down.

Now for the rest of it. I don't know about your job, but I'm not allowed to fuck, with or without a condom, while I'm working. Since I'm not allowed to fuck at work, if I contract AIDS, I won't be spreading it to everyone at work. I don't recall any specific mention about performing anal sex without a condom at work, but I'm sure HR has a rule.

Some forms of pneumonia are contagious, some aren't. If you work where there is an inhalant risk which could cause pneumonia or other damage to the lungs someone is coming around to be certain you are using the proper PPE. There's even training so you know what's required and how to use it.

Every US state has seatbelt laws. The US requires every car to have 3 point seatbelts. Every new car is required to be equipped with airbags. Depending on which state you are in you can be stopped and ticketed for failure to wear your seatbelt. I'm guessing you weren't aware of this, but failure to wear a seatbelt is not a contagious disease, neither is failure to tie your shoes. If you're walking around with your shoes untied, it's not going to cause everyone else's shoes to suddenly become untied. If tying your shoes is too difficult, have you considered loafers?

About 2 years ago not far from where I live there was an outbreak of Hepatitis A. The restaurant was closed and only reopened after all employees had been vaccinated for Hepatitis A. This type of thing happens quite often. Why have I never seen you posting about restaurant workers being required to get the Hep A vaccine? Why have you never complained about not being able to eat at a restaurant where some employees have Hep A? When was the last time you posted complaining about all the vaccines nurses are required to get?

And if it's just that your employer is requiring Covid vaccination, why bring your complaints here? Do you want me to send a letter to HR explaining how you're special and shouldn't be required to get vaccinated?

[Elvis 2008]

I see your a proud graduate of the Elvis school of illogic.

I'm sorry I guess I'm tilting at windmills trying to demonstrate simple statistical correlations to a graduate of the Elvis school of logical nonsense.Yawn. Funny how the WHO came over to my position. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-10-12/world-health-organization-coronavirus-lockdown-advice/12753688.

The latest discussion about strict lockdowns started after the WHO's special envoy on COVID-19 said they should not be used as the primary method of control.

Dr Nabarro made the statements in an interview with The Spectator.

"The only time we believe a lockdown in justified is to buy you time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources; protect your health workers who are exhausted," Dr Nabarro said.

"But by and large, we'd rather not do it."

Between this, the Stanford study, and mountains of data, the debate on lockdowns is over, but the douches still want to argue about their being right.

You do not destroy economies because you think a measure, lockdowns, might work to save lives. Again, do no harm.

Peru locked down harder than anywhere and had the highest death rate in the world. With Villany's comment about genetic makeup, I guess the reason was when the virus had a chance to infect a Swede or Peruvian, it went for the Peruvian. Clearly, the Covid virus is racist and I think we need to intentionally infect more white people with Covid to offset this.

Villany, why are you attacking me instead of the WHO? Oh right, because you are a douche!