View Full Version : Stupid Shit in Kyiv
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Based on the swing counties I know. I believe Biden won the election. However, I am also distressed by how lax the Democrats want to make voting standards going forward. I have no problem with moving voting to Sundays, but I have a lot of problems with recent trends towards mail-in voting, unmanned voting boxes and vote harvesting efforts.
You would have to be naive to think that there is a lack of election integrity in some Democratic and Republican cities and counties in the United States. The money in our government is too big for unethical behavior not to follow. The "there's no evidence" line is a cop out. Most people know that you can't detect most voter fraud. And yet, people on both sides have still been convicted over the years..Then you are "distressed" for no reason. Americans have been voting securely by mail for 150 years. And the FBI and other election security experts aren't distressed don't know what you think you know.
"In a press briefing on election security on Aug. 26, senior FBI officials said they've found no evidence of coordinated fraud with mail-in ballots and also highlighted how unlikely the scenario would be. 'It would be extraordinarily difficult to change a federal election outcome through this type of fraud alone, given the range of processes that would need to be affected or compromised by an adversary at the local level,' the FBI said. ".
https://www.cnet.com/news/politics/mail-in-voting-fraud-is-nearly-impossible-to-commit/
Read the whole article for details and illustrations.
And you erect and knock down a straw man. No one is saying "no evidence" of fraud, but that it's rare and didn't come remotely close to changing the outcome of the 2020 election. And everyone's shit is together. Even the sham recount by a partisan group in Arizona turned up nothing. Yes we get all the conspiracy theories like 2000 mules, like out of all these "mules" none have loose lips and all are keeping the secret. Then there's the 60+ frivolous lawsuits that never got off the ground. Voter fraud is rare, with Trump's top election security official Chris Krebs calling the last election the most secure in US history. And voter fraud involves a felony and is impractical on an individual basis just to get in an extra vote for a preferred candidate, especially for someone here on a green card that would be deported.
Mail in voting is common in a number of countries, and we have seen plenty of success with it in the US. Conservatives are against it while for a number of ways to make it harder to vote because they are increasingly in the minority and cannot win national elections otherwise. They depend on low turnout. It's a solution without a problem, and we get it with the racist dog whistles and all the focus on and imagery of Hispanics in Arizona and blacks in Georgia and Philadelphia processing ballots, "Birth of a Nation" revisited, nothing new under the sun. That was Trump's calling card from the start, backlash from the first black president, and it continues. It sells and is lucrative. Anyway enjoy a bit more reading, or, if you don't like those, Google is full articles that oppose the ideas you are sympathetic towards. I'm taking a break from the monger forum war and politics for a while as I'm overwhelmed with work responsibilities. Plus I already thoroughly hashed this one out with the conservatives in the American politics forum. Am not up for a rerun, at least not so soon.
https://www.demandthevote.com/truth-about-voter-id
https://news.columbia.edu/in-mail-absentee-ballots-secure-vote-election
Every nation other than Russia and Ukraine is at best tangential, and at worst irrelevant.
As I see it, Ukraine's requirements for any kind of cease-fire (or more) would be, at a minimum, Russia's withdrawal to pre-invasion boundaries. I see no indication that's even close to being acceptable to Russia.
Russia apparently believes it can hold out against sanctions and attrition of military resources long enough to seize all of Luhansk, Donetsk, and a land corridor to Crimea. And, from other sources I've recently read, some in Russia believe they can reconstitute their forces enough to make another push at Kyiv.
While Ukraine's thinking, as I understand it, is that they can bend without breaking and, with Western support, continue to grind down Russia's ability to effectively wage war. And, on that front, there are things happening to encourage Ukraine. Putin has failed to call for national mobilization, perhaps fearing backlash or widespread disobedience or avoidance, and Russia has eliminated the upper age limit for military service. Those, and similar developments, indicate that Putin is having a hard time finding soldiers. And any who are recruited today will need to be trained for at least several months before achieving even minimal fighting proficiency.
So, that's a longish way of saying that neither side is anywhere close to believing they need to negotiate. When one side, or both, is sufficiently beaten up, then who the negotiator is, while important, won't be the primary issue..I actually enjoy your authoritative posts. As I kind of mentioned with another poster, I would be careful delving into the idea that there are some certain outcomes in the aftermath of this war.
I have avoided making definitive statements about where things will end up. You are correct that the Ukraine is fighting an existential war. However, I don't think we want to push Putin and the Russian military into thinking this is an existential war for Russia. I'm not talking about letting the Russians leverage the nuke card for gain. I am talking about driving the Russians to commit to an extended war that never seems to end.
I have no idea how things will end up. If you think the Ukraine will push the Russians out of the Eastern Ukraine / Crimea and the Russians will just pack up, go home and everything will be settled, I would hope for that but I think it is optimistic.
You're right the Ukrainians on the ground, don't care what I think about negotiations. Since this war is impacting the global economy everyone has a stake in it.
As far as a third party broker being tangential, I would disagree and say they can be helpful at times. Obviously the Ukraine and Russia have to both tire of the war and want to pursue a way out, but there are so many levers and so many implications globally I think there are countries that can help. Just the fact that some prominent European leaders were trying to tell Putin on the phone that the war was not going great for him is an act of trying to drive peace negotiations.
Here's a good quote from the Reuters article. It's entirety is worth a read.
"Listing all of the steps needed to falsify a ballot, Gronke told Reuters: '1) You need a falsified ballot with a unique bar code, printed on special paper, and a special envelope. If the claim is that you've somehow obtained 400,000 original ballots without the elections officials or voters knowing, how precisely did you do this?
"2) You need to successfully forge the voter's signature. 3) You need to deposit the envelope and have it validated by a local official.
Congratulations! Besides committing a felony, you have now cast ONE fraudulent ballot. Now you need to figure out how to do that hundreds of thousands of times, in different jurisdictions, with different ballot styles and different voting materials.'"
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ
We have fake excuses for voter suppression while scammers make a buck peddling the narrative a la Carlson and the convicted embezzler d'Sousa. That's bad enough but when it undercuts our democracy a la Jan 6th then we need to take a stand.
Here's a good quote from the Reuters article. It's entirety is worth a read.
"Listing all of the steps needed to falsify a ballot, Gronke told Reuters: '1) You need a falsified ballot with a unique bar code, printed on special paper, and a special envelope. If the claim is that you've somehow obtained 400,000 original ballots without the elections officials or voters knowing, how precisely did you do this?
"2) You need to successfully forge the voter's signature. 3) You need to deposit the envelope and have it validated by a local official.
Congratulations! Besides committing a felony, you have now cast ONE fraudulent ballot. Now you need to figure out how to do that hundreds of thousands of times, in different jurisdictions, with different ballot styles and different voting materials.'"
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ
We have fake excuses for voter suppression while scammers make a buck peddling the narrative a la Carlson and the convicted embezzler d'Sousa. That's bad enough but when it undercuts our democracy a la Jan 6th then we need to take a stand.I'm not arguing about the past election. I just don't like a reliance on mail-in voting. If one doesn't like expanding mail-in voting like myself, they certainly don't like unmanned ballot collection boxes.
This discussion tends to raise the ire of people fixated on January 6. I would have told you the same thing in 2019. I am not even remotely concerned about the results of the 2020 election.
Republicans do benefit from low turnout. However, Democrats benefit from shepherding their voters. The question is how much "shepherding" is too much. As an example when I ordered a mail-in ballot during 2020, I provided my Driver License number. Key words: "I ordered" "Drives License number." Certain requirements seem fairly reasonable and yet still get argued.
Here's a good quote from the Reuters article. It's entirety is worth a read.
"Listing all of the steps needed to falsify a ballot, Gronke told Reuters: '1) You need a falsified ballot with a unique bar code, printed on special paper, and a special envelope. If the claim is that you've somehow obtained 400,000 original ballots without the elections officials or voters knowing, how precisely did you do this?
"2) You need to successfully forge the voter's signature. 3) You need to deposit the envelope and have it validated by a local official.
Congratulations! Besides committing a felony, you have now cast ONE fraudulent ballot. Now you need to figure out how to do that hundreds of thousands of times, in different jurisdictions, with different ballot styles and different voting materials.'"
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ
We have fake excuses for voter suppression while scammers make a buck peddling the narrative a la Carlson and the convicted embezzler d'Sousa. That's bad enough but when it undercuts our democracy a la Jan 6th then we need to take a stand.I'm not arguing about the past election. I just don't like a reliance on mail-in voting. If one doesn't like expanding mail-in voting like myself, they certainly don't like unmanned ballot collection boxes.
This discussion tends to raise the ire of people fixated on January 6. I would have told you the same thing in 2019. I am not even remotely concerned about the results of the 2020 election.
Republicans do benefit from low turnout. However, Democrats benefit from shepherding their voters. The question is how much "shepherding" is too much. As an example when I ordered a mail-in ballot during 2020, I provided my Driver License number. Key words: "I ordered" "Drives License number". Certain requirements seem fairly reasonable and yet still get argued.
I've posted often that the direction of the tide is more important than the action of the waves. This article sets a similar tone, warning against the mood swings that can accompany positive and negative reports (about either side).
https://www.ft.com/content/f2f360e0-25f8-4060-83a3-775eb244d1d2
Imagine if WW-II (or pick your war) battles had been subject to near-instantaneous comments and analysis on Twitter, Instagram, etc. I'm personally not a huge fan of social media (prob a generational thing) but it's easy to see how such media channels can make it difficult to keep the big picture in clear focus.
P.S. When I used the above link for the first time, I got a readable version of the article. But using it again resulted in a paywalled page. If the link doesn't work for you, try this one:
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.ft.com/content/f2f360e0-25f8-4060-83a3-775eb244d1d2
I actually enjoy your authoritative posts. As I kind of mentioned with another poster, I would be careful delving into the idea that there are some certain outcomes in the aftermath of this war.
I have avoided making definitive statements about where things will end up. You are correct that the Ukraine is fighting an existential war. However, I don't think we want to push Putin and the Russian military into thinking this is an existential war for Russia. I'm not talking about letting the Russians leverage the nuke card for gain. I am talking about driving the Russians to commit to an extended war that never seems to end.
I have no idea how things will end up. If you think the Ukraine will push the Russians out of the Eastern Ukraine / Crimea and the Russians will just pack up, go home and everything will be settled, I would hope for that but I think it is optimistic.
You're right the Ukrainians on the ground, don't care what I think about negotiations. Since this war is impacting the global economy everyone has a stake in it.
As far as a third party broker being tangential, I would disagree and say they can be helpful at times. Obviously the Ukraine and Russia have to both tire of the war and want to pursue a way out, but there are so many levers and so many implications globally I think there are countries that can help. Just the fact that some prominent European leaders were trying to tell Putin on the phone that the war was not going great for him is an act of trying to drive peace negotiations.I agree that trying to predict specific outcomes is a fool's errand. I have been pretty consistent, however, in my assertion that there are no reality-based winnable scenarios for Russia, only varying degrees of failure.
And, as I see it, that's not so much a prediction as an observation. To me it's similar to seeing someone who painted themselves into a corner. You can't predict exactly what pattern of steps they'll follow, but you can safely observe that there's no path out of the corner that avoids getting paint on the shoes. Of course, they could simply decide to stay in the corner, but that's just another failure variant. I think the FT article I just posted does a good job of keeping things in the proper perspective, and I think those who are yielding to the temptation of making predictions are getting caught up in a mood-swing mentality.
As far as third-party brokers are concerned, maybe I'm having a brain cramp but for the life of me I'm struggling to recall a circumstance, at least in modern times, in which any have played a substantive role or made a material difference. Do you have any specific examples in mind?
When one combatant surrenders unconditionally it doesn't much matter where the agreement is signed. And if neither side is ready to negotiate, third parties are irrelevant, as witness the Ukraine-Russia meetings that took place in Istanbul. Maybe the best role for a mediator, when the time is ripe, is just to provide a meeting venue and make sure there's plenty of coffee on hand! Oh yes, and pastries would be great, as would a nice lunch. The French would have been prime candidates had not Macron made his recent "let's not humiliate Putin" comment. Whether one agrees with him or not, he's clearly disqualified himself in the eyes of Ukraine. In fact, I think most of the European "great powers" (UK, France, Germany, etc.) have ruled themselves out. So, the million-dollar question is, who is left?
The French would have been prime candidates had not Macron made his recent "let's not humiliate Putin" comment. Whether one agrees with him or not, he's clearly disqualified himself in the eyes of Ukraine. In fact, I think most of the European "great powers" (UK, France, Germany, etc.) have ruled themselves out. So, the million-dollar question is, who is left?Not necessarily. UK and Boris Johnson in particular are very popular in Ukraine (unlike Germany, France and Italy).
Not necessarily. UK and Boris Johnson in particular are very popular in Ukraine (unlike Germany, France and Italy).Bad on me, I should been more clear about the disqualifications coming from both sides, as in France and Germany would be nixed by Ukraine and the UK nixed by Russia.
Does Switzerland's neutrality allow it to serve in a mediator role? Other than the Swiss, it's hard to think of another country in Europe that hasn't formally or informally chosen a side.
Turkey or Israel could mediate.
However, there is little reason to believe in any good faith from the Russian side since there is not one agreement standing they have respected with Ukraine. I think only a resounding defeat of Russia will be the end of this war, otherwise Russia will simply regroup and do the same again whilst lying in the faces of the International community.
Only way to curtail it's power to wean away the reliance on Russian resources, and ensure that long term, technologies like microchips are not exported to Russia.
Bad on me, I should been more clear about the disqualifications coming from both sides, as in France and Germany would be nixed by Ukraine and the UK nixed by Russia.
Does Switzerland's neutrality allow it to serve in a mediator role? Other than the Swiss, it's hard to think of another country in Europe that hasn't formally or informally chosen a side.
Turkey or Israel could mediate.
However, there is little reason to believe in any good faith from the Russian side since there is not one agreement standing they have respected with Ukraine. I think only a resounding defeat of Russia will be the end of this war, otherwise Russia will simply regroup and do the same again whilst lying in the faces of the International community.
Only way to curtail it's power to wean away the reliance on Russian resources, and ensure that long term, technologies like microchips are not exported to Russia.Yep.
Russia has recognized Ukraine's borders AT LEAST 4 times in the last 30 years.
1. 1991: Russia recognizes Ukrainian independence.
2. 1994: Budapest Memorandum.
3. 1997: Russian–Ukrainian Friendship Treaty.
4. 2010: Kharkiv Pact.
What else do they want to realize that Russia can't be trusted. Sign anything with them, and they'll use the break to regroup and start again. They don't give a shit about Donbass, they came to Ukraine FOR Ukraine.
John Clayton
06-05-22, 22:29
...2. 1994: Budapest Memorandum...Just to refresh people's memory, prior to 1994 Ukraine held over 1700 nuclear warheads on multiple missles, bombers, etc. They had the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. They gave up these weapons in exchange for international treaty assurances, including (and principally) Russia, that guaranteed the integrity of Ukrainian borders. Russia is clearly the treaty breaker here; however, the US and the UK do bear some responsibility for not coming to their defense in 2014.
You'll appreciate the pun when you watch the short video included in the thread:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1533800802657124352.html
I didn't mention Russia, as its mentioned all over here.
I'm sure there are plenty of ways to look at the situation, including views from 10,000 feet that focus on which players (countries and companies) might benefit from, or be taking advantage of, the conflict.
But it's hard for me to concern myself with such issues while Ukrainians are being killed, captured, tortured, and their cities reduced to uninhabitable rubble.
When confronted with that in-your-face reality, there are only a very few questions at the top level of priority:
Q: Who bears primary responsibility for the conflict?
A: Russia.
Q: Who is the only party with the ability to unilaterally bring an end to the conflict?
A: Russia.
Q: How can the conflict be stopped?
A: By Russia deciding to stop, either by their own independent decision, or as a response to external and (or) internal pressures.
While other questions and issues may be valid and worth exploring, they must necessarily take a back seat to the primary issues listed above. I'm certainly open to debating which countries might secretly, or not so secretly, be hoping for Ukraine to fail (Serbia, Hungary, Germany, etc.), or which countries are giving Ukraine their full support (Poland, Baltics, etc.), or which countries (USA, France, Italy, etc.) might be slow-walking assistance because they see upsides to a protracted conflict.
I have no illusions about the fact that there are plenty of bad actors who could, and should, be named and shamed. But Job #1 is ending the war, full stop. And that will only happen if Russia has a change of mind (unlikely), or if a combination of battlefield defeats, attrition, and pressures from within and without, cause them to have that change of mind.
US fought more wars than any other country after WWII, I guess that is a fact.
The fact is I am not worried about who is at war, but the common people is who will suffer in the end.
Lot of us will debate on the ideologies.
All you've done is ignore all of Jmsuttr's points and concerns while repeating the same assertions all over again, but this time tacking on double exclamation marks at the end of each sentence. And you earn a demerit by adding the ludicrous claim that the US has been the only country involved in war since WW II. We should expect better, even in a hooker forum. Why don't you go back and try again? Wink.
If you read my first post, probably you would have got the point.
I am not bothered about who started the war or who is fighting.
War is bad for sure, and its extremely worse for the common people.
Now it comes to the question of NATO, Why didn't NATO support Ukraine directly, and we could have hoped optimisticaly, that would have stopped the war? Or by now reached a negotiation?
Then we might say, Ukraine is not a NATO member? Kuwait, Vietnam, S Korea to name a few none of them where. In reality if NATO wants to help, they can!
That is the point, there is business in war, more than saving people and ending war.
http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2703784&viewfull=1#post2703784
If Russia doesn't want to stop fighting the war, the only way the US could make them stop would require the use of force by the US military, or NATO, or both.
That would a) Play into Putin's hands by allowing him to frame the conflict as existential, with Russia's nationhood at stake, and; b) Exponentially raise the risk that nuclear weapons could be used.
Also, you're mistaken as to a fundamental fact. Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine, not the US and not American arms manufacturers. It was Putin, and he alone, who started the war. And, since he started it, the war will continue until Putin, or his successor, gives the order to stop.
Any questions?
Who wants war, and we can safely say Russia started, true.
But no one is trying to stop it.
I wonder what can possibly possess a grown-up to say something so monumentally stupid.
DramaFree11
06-07-22, 02:18
Who wants war, and we can safely say Russia started, true.
But no one is trying to stop it.Exactly, it makes no sense. We have created a monster in the Ukraine President. The CIA is promising him the world, mean while, economies are tanking. Great job Biden!!
Who wants war, and we can safely say Russia started, true.
But no one is trying to stop it.And, in response, Russia would destroy half the world, and NATO would proceed to destroy the other half.
There, no more war, we've solved it, right?
You sound like a child whining at their parents to make the thunder and lightning stop. It's understandable that a child doesn't know the difference between what's possible and what's not, because they think their parents can do anything.
So, what's your excuse? Please tell us who has the power to make the thunder and lightning stop?
Or, if you prefer, we could simply push the button that ends up decimating the world. Not to worry, if you live anywhere near a population center, you shouldn't feel much. Just a bright flash and it'll all be over. And, as a bonus, your silhouette will be emblazoned on the nearest wall.
But hey, the war will stop. In fact, ALL wars will be stopped. Happy days, right?
P. S. There are two things in the world that are universally hated. There are probably more, but for sure at least two. Mosquitoes are the first. Everybody hates them. The second are people who constantly whine and complain about things, but offer nothing constructive. In school, in the workplace, among acquaintances (and even family), those people are universally hated. So far, your posts in this forum have placed you firmly in that latter group.
Exactly, it makes no sense. We have created a monster in the Ukraine President. The CIA is promising him the world, mean while, economies are tanking. Great job Biden!!I'm not defending either pre-invasion Ukraine, or the CIA. I'm simply stating a plain and unassailable fact.
The Russian army, acting solely on Putin's orders, marched into Ukraine on Feb 24th and proceeded to devastate entire cities, with no regard for civilian casualties.
If you want to characterize Zelensky and the CIA as demons, go right ahead. But Putin has demonstrated that he's Satan incarnate, and that he needs to be defeated, and hopefully destroyed.
Every time I see a post that tries to deny, or sidestep, Putin's exclusive agency and responsibility for the war, I will point out the factual error. Every time.
PedroMorales
06-07-22, 07:18
P. S. There are two things in the world that are universally hated. There are probably more, but for sure at least two. Mosquitoes are the first. Everybody hates them. p.Mosquitoes are not universally hated. West Africans have songs praising them because they killed the white colonialists, people like you. But then Africans are not even people to things like you.
Meanwhile, the great Russian Army roll on and American continues to fight to the last Ukrainian.
Time to you to step up and stop this war yourself by volunteering at the local Ukrainian embassy for a free ticket to a Ukrainian training camp where you will become Rambo and single handedly end this war by stopping the Russian Army! LOL.
BTW, if a country bombarded Jews (or ethnic Russians in the Donbass) for 8 years and refused to sign a peace treaty like the Minsk Accords, as Zelensky refused to do, would Israel (or Russia) be an aggressor if it invaded the country that had been bombarding Jews for 8 years? The difference between children and many Americans is that children grow up and accept reality. Many Americans don't. Pissing off the Russians was a bad idea and now Ukraine is paying for Zelensky's stupidity.
Who wants war, and we can safely say Russia started, true.
But no one is trying to stop it.
DramaFree11
06-07-22, 19:59
I'm not defending either pre-invasion Ukraine, or the CIA. I'm simply stating a plain and unassailable fact.
The Russian army, acting solely on Putin's orders, marched into Ukraine on Feb 24th and proceeded to devastate entire cities, with no regard for civilian casualties.
If you want to characterize Zelensky and the CIA as demons, go right ahead. But Putin has demonstrated that he's Satan incarnate, and that he needs to be defeated, and hopefully destroyed.
Every time I see a post that tries to deny, or sidestep, Putin's exclusive agency and responsibility for the war, I will point out the factual error. Every time.I have never said Putin is not to blame. He started it, but there also many others that do not want the war to end. We should be demanding a ceasefire and negotiations. Cut off some of the money and weapons, you will see a settlement quickly.
Mosquitoes are not universally hated. West Africans have songs praising them because they killed the white colonialists, people like you. But then Africans are not even people to things like you.
Meanwhile, the great Russian Army roll on and American continues to fight to the last Ukrainian.Is that the best you've got? A post defending mosquitoes? With friends like you, the full and total humiliating defeat of the Russian orcs is assured! The Ukrainian defenders have their mosquito swatters and sprays at the full ready!
Congratulations, you have once again besoiled yourself for all to see. ROTFLMFAO!
I'm not defending either pre-invasion Ukraine, or the CIA. I'm simply stating a plain and unassailable fact.
The Russian army, acting solely on Putin's orders, marched into Ukraine on Feb 24th and proceeded to devastate entire cities, with no regard for civilian casualties.
If you want to characterize Zelensky and the CIA as demons, go right ahead. But Putin has demonstrated that he's Satan incarnate, and that he needs to be defeated, and hopefully destroyed.
Every time I see a post that tries to deny, or sidestep, Putin's exclusive agency and responsibility for the war, I will point out the factual error. Every time.Much of the victim blaming is based on Russian propaganda disseminated in the West 2014 and onwards that goes largely unanswered, or just slanted academic analysis that blames NATO while ignoring the agencies of the Eastern Euro countries that had good reason to want to join.
That was just an excuse anyway as Putin later said he had no problems with Sweden and Finland joining. Ukraine has some very valuable lands, farming and seaports. Putin wants them. Many wars have been fought in that region over the centuries for that precise reason.
https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-russia-no-problem-finland-sweden-join-nato/
Plus Zelensky was democratically elected and Ukraine has a Freedom House score of 61 out of 100, not great but about on par with Hungary. They've made a lot of progress. It's far greater than Russia's dismal 15 and Belarus' 5.
https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores
Mostly what we get here though is what I'd call monger forum drive by whiners. They lay out conspiracy theories while usually blaming US democrats for anything that may be wrong in their own lives or in the world. No source or proof is linked, and when asked for it it's never forthcoming. They don't return until they have another unproven assertion or if the mood strikes them to repeat the prior one over again. They don't want to tell us that they heard it the other night listening to Tucker Carlson or reading an obscure far right blog or their FB feed. Here's a good article, especially much of what is found through the sourced imbedded links. This source has a fabulous rating in the matter of media bias and fact checks.
https://theconversation.com/how-russias-unanswered-propaganda-led-to-the-war-in-ukraine-180202
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-conversation/
Here's more that's worth a look.
https://www.state.gov/fact-vs-fiction-russian-disinformation-on-ukraine/
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-russia-is-spreading-blatantly-false-information-about-the-war-in-ukraine
https://news.stanford.edu/2022/03/03/seven-tips-spotting-disinformation-russia-ukraine-war/
Cut off some of the money and weapons, you will see a settlement quickly.There you have it! Your prescription for ending the war would only affect Ukraine. Russia has already been cut off from money and weapons, to the maximum extent that sanctions can be agreed upon and applied.
Therefore, your "solution" would ONLY have a negative impact on Ukraine. Why don't you drop all pretense and simply declare that you're in favor of Ukrainian capitulation? How pathetic that, instead of having the courage of your convictions (even if wrong) you slink around using weasel-words.
It took a while, but eventually the truth always comes out.
P.S. You can now, once and for all, drop the further pretense that you give a shit about the Ukrainian people. Just take a look at Mariupol if you need a reminder of what Russian "victory" looks like.
It's characteristics and how to counter it.
https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html
Time to you to step up and stop this war yourself by volunteering at the local Ukrainian embassy for a free ticket to a Ukrainian training camp where you will become Rambo and single handedly end this war by stopping the Russian Army! LOL.
BTW, if a country bombarded Jews (or ethnic Russians in the Donbass) for 8 years and refused to sign a peace treaty like the Minsk Accords, as Zelensky refused to do, would Israel (or Russia) be an aggressor if it invaded the country that had been bombarding Jews for 8 years? The difference between children and many Americans is that children grow up and accept reality. Many Americans don't. Pissing off the Russians was a bad idea and now Ukraine is paying for Zelensky's stupidity.Whether one is discussing the situation in Eastern Ukraine, or the Israeli-Palestinian strife, or that of Turkey against the ethnic Kurds, it's not possible to make an objective analysis if one has already accepted the preferred narrative of one of the parties in the conflict.
Here's a pretty comprehensive look at the issues, and competing Ukraine vs Russia narratives, authored by a German organization:
https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2019RP05
Reading, or even skimming, through the report, it's quite evident how far apart the narratives of each of the sides are. One can certainly set the starting point of the timeline at 2014, and one can certainly argue that the Minsk Accords are an equitable solution. But intellectual honesty and integrity requires pointing out that such a view is in substantial agreement with the pro-Russia narrative, and is dismissive of the Ukrainian position.
As I've posted numerous times, I'm not interested in defending pre-invasion Ukraine. I frankly don't care what provocations, real or imagined, Russia was enduring. As the bigger and more powerful country, they had a range of options by which they could have responded. Marching in with an army, and lobbing bombs and missiles at civilians, is unacceptable by any moral standard.
Russia is unequivocally the aggressor, and Putin bears sole responsibility. With those facts fixed firmly in mind, my hope is for the most humiliating possible defeat for Russia. And my second hope is that Russia's own people see to a Mussolini-like denouement for Little Vlad.
As for which country ends up paying for its leader's stupidity, there's a compelling argument to be made that Russia will come out the long-term loser.
Just fueled up yesterday at the pump and noticed the prices are skyrocketing. Meanwhile the Russians have lots of gas and oil and are making bank and rolling in the cash from energy sales. This war is boosting the income that Russia receives from its oil and gas. Look in the mirror and figure out who is being sanctioned at the gas pump and grocery store. Tucker: You are about to get a lot poorer. Fox News host reacts to Biden banning Russian oil and natural gas imports on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight. ' #FoxNews #Tucker Biden's Latest Attack on the Middle Class. A youtube video dated March 8, 2022 well worth watching as it accurately describes who is getting screwed with these sanctions. Got a mirror handy? Visited the gas station for a fillup lately?
Whether one is discussing the situation in Eastern Ukraine, or the Israeli-Palestinian strife, or that of Turkey against the ethnic Kurds, it's not possible to make an objective analysis if one has already accepted the preferred narrative of one of the parties in the conflict.
Here's a pretty comprehensive look at the issues, and competing Ukraine vs Russia narratives, authored by a German organization:
https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2019RP05
Reading, or even skimming, through the report, it's quite evident how far apart the narratives of each of the sides are. One can certainly set the starting point of the timeline at 2014, and one can certainly argue that the Minsk Accords are an equitable solution. But intellectual honesty and integrity requires pointing out that such a view is in substantial agreement with the pro-Russia narrative, and is dismissive of the Ukrainian position.
As I've posted numerous times, I'm not interested in defending pre-invasion Ukraine. I frankly don't care what provocations, real or imagined, Russia was enduring. As the bigger and more powerful country, they had a range of options by which they could have responded. Marching in with an army, and lobbing bombs and missiles at civilians, is unacceptable by any moral standard.
Russia is unequivocally the aggressor, and Putin bears sole responsibility. With those facts fixed firmly in mind, my hope is for the most humiliating possible defeat for Russia. And my second hope is that Russia's own people see to a Mussolini-like denouement for Little Vlad.
As for which country ends up paying for its leader's stupidity, there's a compelling argument to be made that Russia will come out the long-term loser.
PedroMorales
06-08-22, 08:49
You made a racist statement about mosquitoes and Africans. I corrected you. All you can do in your little Habara factory is hurl insults. From a point of view of ignorance.
"Russian orcs" more racism.
Go and beat up some Christians or Muslims, you pig.
Meanwhile, the Russian military roll on to victory.
Is that the best you've got? A post defending mosquitoes? With friends like you, the full and total humiliating defeat of the Russian orcs is assured! The Ukrainian defenders have their mosquito swatters and sprays at the full ready!
Congratulations, you have once again besoiled yourself for all to see. ROTFLMFAO!
Exactly, it makes no sense. We have created a monster in the Ukraine President. The CIA is promising him the world, mean while, economies are tanking. Great job Biden!!So Putin needs to be awarded The Flying Fickle Finger of Fate award for defending Russia and its people by destroying and occupying at present 20% of Ukraine.
Remember Czechoslovakia in 1968 ?? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y228MtvAa3I.
By the way, I am not an American!!
As I said, whatever happend who will lose? The Common people!
Time to you to step up and stop this war yourself by volunteering at the local Ukrainian embassy for a free ticket to a Ukrainian training camp where you will become Rambo and single handedly end this war by stopping the Russian Army! LOL.
BTW, if a country bombarded Jews (or ethnic Russians in the Donbass) for 8 years and refused to sign a peace treaty like the Minsk Accords, as Zelensky refused to do, would Israel (or Russia) be an aggressor if it invaded the country that had been bombarding Jews for 8 years? The difference between children and many Americans is that children grow up and accept reality. Many Americans don't. Pissing off the Russians was a bad idea and now Ukraine is paying for Zelensky's stupidity.
And it looks like I already have a compnay in that group.
And, in response, Russia would destroy half the world, and NATO would proceed to destroy the other half.
There, no more war, we've solved it, right?
You sound like a child whining at their parents to make the thunder and lightning stop. It's understandable that a child doesn't know the difference between what's possible and what's not, because they think their parents can do anything.
So, what's your excuse? Please tell us who has the power to make the thunder and lightning stop?
Or, if you prefer, we could simply push the button that ends up decimating the world. Not to worry, if you live anywhere near a population center, you shouldn't feel much. Just a bright flash and it'll all be over. And, as a bonus, your silhouette will be emblazoned on the nearest wall.
But hey, the war will stop. In fact, ALL wars will be stopped. Happy days, right?
P. S. There are two things in the world that are universally hated. There are probably more, but for sure at least two. Mosquitoes are the first. Everybody hates them. The second are people who constantly whine and complain about things, but offer nothing constructive. In school, in the workplace, among acquaintances (and even family), those people are universally hated. So far, your posts in this forum have placed you firmly in that latter group.
As far as third-party brokers are concerned, maybe I'm having a brain cramp but for the life of me I'm struggling to recall a circumstance, at least in modern times, in which any have played a substantive role or made a material difference. Do you have any specific examples in mind?
When one combatant surrenders unconditionally it doesn't much matter where the agreement is signed. And if neither side is ready to negotiate, third parties are irrelevant, as witness the Ukraine-Russia meetings that took place in Istanbul. Maybe the best role for a mediator, when the time is ripe, is just to provide a meeting venue and make sure there's plenty of coffee on hand! Oh yes, and pastries would be great, as would a nice lunch. The French would have been prime candidates had not Macron made his recent "let's not humiliate Putin" comment. Whether one agrees with him or not, he's clearly disqualified himself in the eyes of Ukraine. In fact, I think most of the European "great powers" (UK, France, Germany, etc.) have ruled themselves out. So, the million-dollar question is, who is left?Third party brokers routinely appear in peace talks. Whether the talks resulted in a permanent end to conflict is another story. The Indians assisted in ending the Korean Conflict. As many know, there was no signed agreement just a cessation of military conflict. The most famous and successful peace talks might be the Camp David Accords where Jimmy Carter engaged the Egyptians and the Israelis. He won a Nobel Peace Prize in the process and the peace has held for forty years. There have been many foreign parties involved in peace negotiations in the series of recent agreements in the Sudan. I am not up on the Sudan to know how successful the peace talks have been in maintaining peace.
You might look at recent talks in Istanbul as a waste of time. Obviously, peace talks work best when both parties are tired and exhausted from the conflict. I have no idea how this conflict will be settled. No one knows if a permanent peace will be attainable.
The Paris Peace Talks went on for four years before an agreement was signed. Clearly, the United States thought (wrongly) they had something to gain to continue on with the conflict. I would hope no one wants to see Russia fighting in the Ukraine for several years. Again, I don't know how it comes to an end.
As far as who is left to be an honest broker (with not too much emphasis on broker), I already have mentioned Turkey, India and even China. Although China praised Putin before the war, I'm not sure they have done anything material to support Russia.
DramaFree11
06-08-22, 16:58
There you have it! Your prescription for ending the war would only affect Ukraine. Russia has already been cut off from money and weapons, to the maximum extent that sanctions can be agreed upon and applied.
Therefore, your "solution" would ONLY have a negative impact on Ukraine. Why don't you drop all pretense and simply declare that you're in favor of Ukrainian capitulation? How pathetic that, instead of having the courage of your convictions (even if wrong) you slink around using weasel-words.
It took a while, but eventually the truth always comes out.
P.S. You can now, once and for all, drop the further pretense that you give a shit about the Ukrainian people. Just take a look at Mariupol if you need a reminder of what Russian "victory" looks like.They need to find a solution to end this, both sides need to compromise. Nobody is winning. Maybe this is what Putin wants, destroying worlds economies, mean while he keeps selling gas. Ukraine is in a no win situation, they need a solution, fast. This part of life, you do not always, get what you want. Take the best deal, live to fight another day. Make a Ukraine a great country, eliminate the corruption, that had been plaguing this county for years. You guys conveniently forgot this.
Yes, I do feel bad for the people, but I have no compassion for either government. Yes, Putin is to blame, but Ukraine government are no saints, far from it. Sorry this is the truth.
You'll appreciate the pun when you watch the short video included in the thread:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1533800802657124352.htmlThis is why you don't rely on economic statistics published by authoritarian regimes.
Private investment groups dig into statistics that the regime is not giving attention and manipulating. Western investment groups look at Chinese electric usage and truck traffic to see what is happening inside the China economy.
You made a racist statement about mosquitoes and Africans. I corrected you. All you can do in your little Habara factory is hurl insults. From a point of view of ignorance.
"Russian orcs" more racism.
Go and beat up some Christians or Muslims, you pig.
Meanwhile, the Russian military roll on to victory.This is great stuff! What other mottos do you chant? Is "Give me your juicy arm or give me death" one of them?
Please tell us, do you support ALL mosquito rights? What about trans and same-sex mosquitoes? Or do you only advocate for cishet, gender-normative mosquitoes? And what about genetically modified mosquitoes? You know, the ones designed to mate but not procreate? What's your position on them?
The questions above, and others, are important in determining whether you're consistent in your defense of mosquito rights. For example, do you condemn Russians who kill mosquitoes? And what about West Africans who, while appreciative of mosquitoes troubling the colonialists, still hate them when it comes to their own blood being sucked?
So many questions! Wait, do you also do slugs? It occurs to me that the slug is another candidate for a universally hated organism. Do you defend the rights of slugs against racist gardeners who sprinkle salt on them, or who spread diatomaceous earth on the ground to slice up their slimy underbellies? That underrepresented invertebrate is clamoring for your attention and support!
Oh, and as far as the term "orc" is concerned, it describes any Russian invader in Ukraine, irrespective of race or ethnicity. If you were REALLY concerned about racism, you'd be condemning the white ethnic Russians of Moscow and St. Petersburg, who sit back in relative comfort while they send their racial and ethnic Central Asian minorities to fight and die. Putin's ideal of Russian purity doesn't include those people, so it's perfectly acceptable for them to be used as cannon fodder.
One more important question: Did you have to study to become this stupid, or were you born this way?
Just fueled up yesterday at the pump and noticed the prices are skyrocketing. Meanwhile the Russians have lots of gas and oil and are making bank and rolling in the cash from energy sales. This war is boosting the income that Russia receives from its oil and gas. Look in the mirror and figure out who is being sanctioned at the gas pump and grocery store. Tucker: You are about to get a lot poorer. Fox News host reacts to Biden banning Russian oil and natural gas imports on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight. ' #FoxNews #Tucker Biden's Latest Attack on the Middle Class. A youtube video dated March 8, 2022 well worth watching as it accurately describes who is getting screwed with these sanctions. Got a mirror handy? Visited the gas station for a fillup lately?Short-term (wave):
Russia gets an income boost because of higher energy prices.
Long-term (tide):
Russia's customer base is negatively impacted because countries are in the process of switching to other suppliers in order to avoid being victimized by Russia's weaponized energy policies. And the western technology needed to keep Russia's energy industry in operation is being withheld, and is unlikely to return for years, if not decades. Which means that breakdowns and bottlenecks are increasingly in store.
Also, there's certainly an argument to be made that the US has made itself more vulnerable as it's moved away from energy independence. One doesn't have to be a supporter of the former administration to recognize that US energy policy has substantially changed. In fact, critics of the current administration have observed that advocates of "green energy" are using the present situation to advance their agenda. What's that phrase again? Oh yes, "Never let a crisis go to waste," IIRC.
I don't watch Tucker, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that, in his criticism of Biden, at some point he must have mentioned the shift in energy policy, right? And, if that's the case, any discussion of sanctions-related (oil, gasoline, and gas) price increases that doesn't ALSO mention the effects of policy changes is flawed and intellectually dishonest. A balanced argument would explore the notion that, if US energy resources were being maximally exploited, it's quite possible we'd have enough to take care of our own needs and also a surplus to support our allies and world markets.
So, while this topic may make for a compelling TV program and YouTube video, like so many "clickbait" issues, it's really an argument that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
P.S. I've made several posts addressing Russia's inability, due to sanctions on goods and services, to use their income effectively. And I've also posted references to sources that show the drastic decrease of imports into Russia, even from supposedly friendly countries. Again, the tide is more important than the waves.
You keep conveniently forgetting that anything other than a total loss for Russia will result in them quietly rebuilding and then trying this again as soon as they are able. Ukraine is fighting for its very existence, once that is assured, they can work on things like better governance.
They need to find a solution to end this, both sides need to compromise. Nobody is winning. Maybe this is what Putin wants, destroying worlds economies, mean while he keeps selling gas. Ukraine is in a no win situation, they need a solution, fast. This part of life, you do not always, get what you want. Take the best deal, live to fight another day. Make a Ukraine a great country, eliminate the corruption, that had been plaguing this county for years. You guys conveniently forgot this.
Yes, I do feel bad for the people, but I have no compassion for either government. Yes, Putin is to blame, but Ukraine government are no saints, far from it. Sorry this is the truth.
They need to find a solution to end this, both sides need to compromise. Nobody is winning. Maybe this is what Putin wants, destroying worlds economies, mean while he keeps selling gas. Ukraine is in a no win situation, they need a solution, fast. This part of life, you do not always, get what you want. Take the best deal, live to fight another day. Make a Ukraine a great country, eliminate the corruption, that had been plaguing this county for years. You guys conveniently forgot this.
Yes, I do feel bad for the people, but I have no compassion for either government. Yes, Putin is to blame, but Ukraine government are no saints, far from it. Sorry this is the truth.Russia's aggression in Ukraine has been labeled genocide by many countries. If you'd like specifics, here's a detailed list:
https://www.justsecurity.org/81564/compilation-of-countries-statements-calling-Russian-actions-in-Ukraine-genocide/
What you conveniently forget, and others who suggest there's a "deal" that allows Ukraine to "fight another day," is Russia's extensive record of elimination a list statements against Ukraine.
https://www.justsecurity.org/81789/russias-eliminationist-rhetoric-against-Ukraine-a-collection/
So, if someone is trying to kill you, by what logic do you have a duty to stop defending yourself? Is it fine with you if those who could help refuse because you're not a saint? Or should we just shout "just work things out and stop" at you and your assailant (who is much more powerful and will annihilate you the moment you stop resisting)?
So, whether you agree or not, there's a clear consensus among many countries that Ukraine is fighting for its very survival against a genocidal aggressor. And, when someone is trying to kill you, every day you stay alive is a win.
FWIW, if there's any justice in the world, the aggressor will be the one who ends up being destroyed, removing them forever from being a future threat.
I don't watch Tucker, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that, in his criticism of Biden, at some point he must have mentioned the shift in energy policy, right? And, if that's the case, any discussion of sanctions-related (oil, gasoline, and gas) price increases that doesn't ALSO mention the effects of policy changes is flawed and intellectually dishonest. A balanced argument would explore the notion that, if US energy resources were being maximally exploited, it's quite possible we'd have enough to take care of our own needs and also a surplus to support our allies and world markets.We were far from "energy independent" under Trump though petroleum imports decreased by about 20% over his entire tenure. In 2020 we became a "net exporter" and we still are. None of that though makes us immune to global markets, while blaming Biden for current gas prices in the face of worldwide inflation is silly and politically motivated. Not to mention the fact that you'd consider taking Tucker Carlson seriously is cause for concern. Even his lawyer publicly laughs at people that believe him. LOL.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-energyindependence-explainer/fact-check-which-factors-determine-u-s-energy-independence-idUSL2N2VQ2ZV
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/03/31/fact-sheet-president-bidens-plan-to-respond-to-putins-price-hike-at-the-pump/
P.S. For those that like roll down the road with a lot of machinery, giant pickups and SUVs, well the chickens have come home to roost. Unless you seriously need those kinds of vehicles for work or to transport large families, I have no sympathy when you pay $5 for a gallon of gas.
You keep conveniently forgetting that anything other than a total loss for Russia will result in them quietly rebuilding and then trying this again as soon as they are able. Ukraine is fighting for its very existence, once that is assured, they can work on things like better governance.You are talking to someone (Drama Free) who claimed he had been to Ukraine and saw their tiny army, then was gloating about how Russia would squash them in a week. That didn't pan out for him so he comes back every few days claiming Ukraine is just as evil and to blame as Russia if not more so. Any evidence presented to the contrary is ignored while the same fallacious arguments are repeated ad nauseum. He does the Chicken Little claiming world economies will tank if we don't stop sending Ukraine weapons, but he said the same about Covid which is now becoming endemic and the world is still standing. Well the West will continue to provide weapons, as Ukraine wants to fight and for the reasons you stated. Plus there's overwhelming bi-partisan support for Ukraine in the US with only 11 Republican senators voting against the latest aid package. Ukraine will fight, and with our weapons. But in any case, ignore Drama Free as he's a broken record that lacks the will or capacity to comprehend and acknowledge the truths others are telling him.
We were far from "energy independent" under Trump though petroleum imports decreased by about 20% over his entire tenure. In 2020 we became a "net exporter" and we still are. None of that though makes us immune to global markets, while blaming Biden for current gas prices in the face of worldwide inflation is silly and politically motivated. Not to mention the fact that you'd consider taking Tucker Carlson seriously is cause for concern. Even his lawyer publicly laughs at people that believe him. LOL.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-energyindependence-explainer/fact-check-which-factors-determine-u-s-energy-independence-idUSL2N2VQ2ZV
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/03/31/fact-sheet-president-bidens-plan-to-respond-to-putins-price-hike-at-the-pump/
P.S. For those that like roll down the road with a lot of machinery, giant pickups and SUVs, well the chickens have come home to roost. Unless you seriously need those kinds of vehicles for work or to transport large families, I have no sympathy when you pay $5 for a gallon of gas.Because:
1. I'm not the poster who uses, or advocates using, Tucker Carlson as a source. In fact, I specifically noted that I don't watch him.
2. At no point did I stake out a personal position on US energy policy. What I did, however, is delineate the parameters of an argument that could be made. In other words, my point was to show that simplistic pseudo-conclusions are a flawed way to look at things. The reason why I used the phrases "there's certainly an argument to be made," and "a balanced argument would explore," is because much about that topic is open to debate. I don't have a settled opinion because I haven't thoroughly researched the matter. If you have, good for you.
Right now, the policies I'm most interested in are those that directly assist Ukraine in resisting Russian aggression. I have no time or patience for those who whine about high fuel prices while civilians are being killed by Russian orcs. Pretty much everything else, IMO, is tangential noise.
We were far from "energy independent" under Trump though petroleum imports decreased by about 20% over his entire tenure. In 2020 we became a "net exporter" and we still are. None of that though makes us immune to global markets, while blaming Biden for current gas prices in the face of worldwide inflation is silly and politically motivated. Not to mention the fact that you'd consider taking Tucker Carlson seriously is cause for concern. Even his lawyer publicly laughs at people that believe him. LOL.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-energyindependence-explainer/fact-check-which-factors-determine-u-s-energy-independence-idUSL2N2VQ2ZV
https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/03/31/fact-sheet-president-bidens-plan-to-respond-to-putins-price-hike-at-the-pump/
P.S. For those that like roll down the road with a lot of machinery, giant pickups and SUVs, well the chickens have come home to roost. Unless you seriously need those kinds of vehicles for work or to transport large families, I have no sympathy when you pay $5 for a gallon of gas.Americans have generally been A holes when it comes down to driving big ass vehicles and wanting cheap gas.
I agree with you. Even if the United States was producing more gas at the margin, we Americans would still be paying the global market rate. No Administration is going to tell the oil industry where to set prices. They can of course ***** and moan.
Having said, American and European green policies are a bit off track when it comes to geopolitical realities. I think some on the Left are reconsidering their opposition to nuclear energy.
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220609-putin-compares-his-actions-to-peter-the-great-s-conquests
Here are some excerpts:
1. With respect to St. Petersburg:
A) "you get the impression that by fighting Sweden he (Peter the Great) was grabbing something. He wasn't taking anything, he was taking it back".
B) "none of the countries in Europe recognised this territory as belonging to Russia".
C) "Everyone considered it to be part of Sweden. But from time immemorial, Slavs had lived there alongside Finno-Ugric peoples".
2. With respect to Russia's current mindset:
A) "It is our responsibility also to take back and strengthen.
B) "Yes, there have been times in our country's history when we have been forced to retreat, but only to regain our strength and move forward".
The author of the article implies that these comments are aimed at, and restricted to, the Ukrainian conflict. But I don't see any such limitation in Putin's actual language and wording. The same rhethoric and rationalization could easily be applied to Baltic and Nordic countries, as well as Poland and beyond. The plain fact of the matter is that anyone who thinks this war is ONLY about Ukraine is engaging in wishful thinking. The best antidote to Russian ambition is for them to be comprehensively defeated in this current war.
DramaFree11
06-09-22, 21:33
You are talking to someone (Drama Free) who claimed he had been to Ukraine and saw their tiny army, then was gloating about how Russia would squash them in a week. That didn't pan out for him so he comes back every few days claiming Ukraine is just as evil and to blame as Russia if not more so. Any evidence presented to the contrary is ignored while the same fallacious arguments are repeated ad nauseum. He does the Chicken Little claiming world economies will tank if we don't stop sending Ukraine weapons, but he said the same about Covid which is now becoming endemic and the world is still standing. Well the West will continue to provide weapons, as Ukraine wants to fight and for the reasons you stated. Plus there's overwhelming bi-partisan support for Ukraine in the US with only 11 Republican senators voting against the latest aid package. Ukraine will fight, and with our weapons. But in any case, ignore Drama Free as he's a broken record that lacks the will or capacity to comprehend and acknowledge the truths others are telling him.Great idea, let's pull the weapons, consultants, CIA, and the money. Let's see how well the great Ukraine army does, they sure as hell were not calling the shots at the beginning, maybe a little now. They have done amazing up to this point, but now is time for compromise. Yes, Ukraine is partially to blame for this mess they are in and if the get greedy they will end up flattened and broke. That is not a win, even in the liberal world.
If gas prices keep going up and Bidden refuses to drill then Putin can go on for ever. Hell you guys are making him richer and Russia. They can work around the sanctions. We dodge a bullet with Covid, the economies were battered, and started to rebound, but I doubt we will be so lucky this time, I hope I am wrong.
Right now, the policies I'm most interested in are those that directly assist Ukraine in resisting Russian aggression. I have no time or patience for those who whine about high fuel prices while civilians are being killed by Russian orcs. Pretty much everything else, IMO, is tangential noise.I very much agree. This isn't a fight for Ukraine. No, not at all. This is a fight for Western civilization. As VinDici wrote, "anything other than a total loss for Russia will result in them quietly rebuilding and then trying this again as soon as they are able. " Unless he is stopped, his shit will not end. And things don't improve with Age.
After almost 2 years working with Ukrainians on reform efforts, I know they are trying to improve as a rule-of-law Western democracy. They are not where they need to be, but they are making progress. It is far better than what Russia has done.
Any help we (anybody) gives Ukraine is contributing to a safe, prosperous, peaceful, and positive rule of law future. Americans complaining about paying $5 a gallon for gasoline need to read about the real sacrifices people made in past wars. Beating the enemy at the gates--an enemy bent on destroying Western civilization--takes sacrifices. I don't think it would be possible to do too much to help the Ukrainians.
Great idea, let's pull the weapons, consultants, CIA, and the money. Let's see how well the great Ukraine army does, they sure as hell were not calling the shots at the beginning, maybe a little now. They have done amazing up to this point, but now is time for compromise. Yes, Ukraine is partially to blame for this mess they are in and if the get greedy they will end up flattened and broke. That is not a win, even in the liberal world.
If gas prices keep going up and Bidden refuses to drill then Putin can go on for ever. Hell you guys are making him richer and Russia. They can work around the sanctions. We dodge a bullet with Covid, the economies were battered, and started to rebound, but I doubt we will be so lucky this time, I hope I am wrong.You really should drop the pretense that you give even one iota of shit about Ukraine. It's patently clear that you don't, so what's the point of compounding stupidity with dishonesty?
Every single one of your posts simply oozes ill will against Ukraine. And, when the transparently BS window dressing is stripped away, the hateful bile is there for all to see.
At least our other resident haters, Pedro M and Golfinho, are honest shambolic losers. You're just a shambolic loser who lacks even a shred of honesty.
PedroMorales
06-10-22, 09:05
We can all agree the captured British and Moroccan mercenaries are getting off lightly. A firing squad is too good for their types. But then we have full flown racists, Hasbara trolls and Russophobes here, all happy to see the corrupt Zelensky regime figt to the last Ukrainian Nazis, thousands of whom are now POWs (unlike the mercenaries).
All political parties, bar the Nazis, are now banned in Ukraine and their assets confiscated.
Playing Russian roulette with Russia. Tomorrow Bosnia. Tsar Nicholas got to Paris. Drive the Americans and their Nazis and ISIS puppets out of Europe.
A well balanced Article which doesn't read like an Early End to the war.
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/ukraine-russia-war-donbas-uk-european-allies-b1004824.html
Main points of concern. "Correspondents being briefed by Whitehall officials last week were surprised to be warned that the UK and United States now expect the fighting in Ukraine to go on to the end of the year".
"Ukrainian forces realise that they are in for a long fight — and British strategic analysts now think the war itself and security crisis is set to run for at least three years more".
Conclusion. 'The war has become like firelighter fuel on the flaring cost-of-living emergency — affecting the food and energy security of this country. Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognise, this is no longer a discretionary matter".
We can all agree the captured British and Moroccan mercenaries are getting off lightly. A firing squad is too good for their types. But then we have full flown racists, Hasbara trolls and Russophobes here, all happy to see the corrupt Zelensky regime figt to the last Ukrainian Nazis, thousands of whom are now POWs (unlike the mercenaries).
All political parties, bar the Nazis, are now banned in Ukraine and their assets confiscated.
Playing Russian roulette with Russia. Tomorrow Bosnia. Tsar Nicholas got to Paris. Drive the Americans and their Nazis and ISIS puppets out of Europe.Please tell us in which country you reside your sorry ass. Because, when Tsar (ina) Putin decides to "retake" it, or "liberate" it, many of the forum members will be excited to cheer your good fortune.
Putin is a murderous, fascist, thug. And he'd smash you like a bug without giving it a second thought. His "best case" scenario is that cancer kills him before he can be put on trial for his heinous war crimes.
DramaFree11
06-10-22, 15:58
You really should drop the pretense that you give even one iota of shit about Ukraine. It's patently clear that you don't, so what's the point of compounding stupidity with dishonesty?
Every single one of your posts simply oozes ill will against Ukraine. And, when the transparently BS window dressing is stripped away, the hateful bile is there for all to see.
At least our other resident haters, Pedro M and Golfinho, are honest shambolic losers. You're just a shambolic loser who lacks even a shred of honesty.Yes, I hate there government and the corruption. Most of all I hate a useless war, that is causing damage world wide. Find a solution.
We can all agree the captured British and Moroccan mercenaries are getting off lightly. A firing squad is too good for their types. But then we have full flown racists, Hasbara trolls and Russophobes here, all happy to see the corrupt Zelensky regime figt to the last Ukrainian Nazis, thousands of whom are now POWs (unlike the mercenaries).
All political parties, bar the Nazis, are now banned in Ukraine and their assets confiscated.
Playing Russian roulette with Russia. Tomorrow Bosnia. Tsar Nicholas got to Paris. Drive the Americans and their Nazis and ISIS puppets out of Europe.Meanwhile, America's greatest ally -- zionist Isreal -- refuses to go along with the sanctions against Russia. With friends like that, who needs enemies.
At least our other resident haters, Pedro M and Golfinho, are honest shambolic losers.Well, I'm not sure that is exactly true. I am fairly confident Pedro knows much of what he writes is not true.
"All political parties, bar the Nazis, are now banned in Ukraine"But maybe your point is that at least they are honest about hating Ukrainians rather than being honest in their arguments.
I actually think DF may be the opposite--I think he actually believes much of what he argues for (if you can call it an argument), but that his perspective is tainted by his hatred for Ukrainians.
[QUOTE=YummyPL.
Any help we (anybody) gives Ukraine is contributing to a safe, prosperous, peaceful, and positive rule of law future. Americans complaining about paying $5 a gallon for gasoline need to read about the real sacrifices people made in past wars. / QUOTE.
LOL, Just run everywhere advises John Kennedy.
https://www.newsweek.com/john-kennedy-gas-prices-cocaine-run-everywhere-biden-inflation-1713912
Meanwhile, America's greatest ally -- zionist Isreal -- refuses to go along with the sanctions against Russia. With friends like that, who needs enemies.Geopolitics doesn't always allow nations to neatly take sides in every global dispute. I suspect a small nation like Israel understands Russia's military meddling in their backyard and doesn't believe it's in their best interest to not aggravate Russia. This is what is described as realpolitik.
A well balanced Article which doesn't read like an Early End to the war.
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/ukraine-russia-war-donbas-uk-european-allies-b1004824.html
Main points of concern. "Correspondents being briefed by Whitehall officials last week were surprised to be warned that the UK and United States now expect the fighting in Ukraine to go on to the end of the year".
"Ukrainian forces realise that they are in for a long fight and British strategic analysts now think the war itself and security crisis is set to run for at least three years more".
Conclusion. 'The war has become like firelighter fuel on the flaring cost-of-living emergency affecting the food and energy security of this country. Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognise, this is no longer a discretionary matter".With the sensibilities of many being influenced by things like social media and sound-bites on the evening news, the idea that there's a simple solution to a complex problem needs to be constantly and thoroughly refuted.
While I'm not criticizing this specific article, it seems to me that most mainstream media outlets tend to be more a part of the problem than the solution. All too often they either restate the obvious or focus breathlessly on every little ebb and flow in the conflict.
Unfortunately, it's not as sexy (or as positive for ratings) to point out that defeating Russian imperial ambitions will require a long and concerted effort. So it's of paramount importance to guard against mental and emotional fatigue among the freedom-loving countries supporting Ukraine. That means continuing encouragement and support, in any way you can, for Ukrainian resistance is the way to go.
Another criticism I have of most media is their tendency to rely on sources that I would describe as low-hanging fruit. Any government source, for example, carries with it an implicit agenda. That doesn't mean the information is necessarily wrong or untrue, it simply means that the agenda needs to be taken into account.
With this current example, it's possible that the UK government, faced with high inflation and economic stresses, is trying to offload some or all of the responsibility onto the conflict. And it appears they're conditioning the public to expect more of the same. That may not be wrong, but it's an effective way for the govt to avoid making specific policy moves to address current conditions. Much easier to say that everything going on is due to factors beyond their control.
But, all criticism aside, I will applaud the authors for concluding the article with "Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognize, this is no longer a discretionary matter," a statement which is not only true but strikes the right tone.
Yes, I hate there government and the corruption. Most of all I hate a useless war, that is causing damage world wide. Find a solution.There, fixed it for you! Happy now?
And, as an added bonus, my proposed solution not only takes care of the current situation, it also addresses the future threat posed to millions who live in places that Russia might decide are their historical birthright, or whatever other bogus (ex. Denazification) justification they feel like using.
Meanwhile, America's greatest ally -- zionist Isreal -- refuses to go along with the sanctions against Russia. With friends like that, who needs enemies.Israel, as it has been for decades, is in a messy situation in the Middle East. Iran, among others (like you), would like nothing better than for Israel to cease to exist. Whether or not one agrees, Israel views Russia's influence as being necessary to keep some of their enemies on a short leash.
Could they be doing more to support Ukraine? Absolutely! But so could Germany, and the Germans can't claim any such existential reason for their tepid and miserly support. When it comes to America's allies, Germany has much more to answer for.
So where's your anti-German criticism?
Well, I'm not sure that is exactly true. I am fairly confident Pedro knows much of what he writes is not true.
But maybe your point is that at least they are honest about hating Ukrainians rather than being honest in their arguments.
I actually think DF may be the opposite--I think he actually believes much of what he argues for (if you can call it an argument), but that his perspective is tainted by his hatred for Ukrainians.When it comes to haters, there are a couple of points I think are important to keep in mind:
1. They can't be changed. Whatever the root causes of their hate, they're far too deep and pervasive to be changed from the outside. That means, for all practical purposes, that an adult hater is likely to stay that way until they draw their last hateful breath.
2. They can't be shamed. Their twisted world view has necessarily twisted pretty much everything else in their tortured existence. Logic and argumentation have no effect because, even if they're clearly demonstrated to be in the wrong, haters will simply twist, or deny, or otherwise move heaven and earth in an effort to keep their hate-bubble from being popped.
With those points in mind, my responses to haters are never directed primarily at them, but rather at the audience of readers. I simply refuse to allow the hateful posts to exist in a vacuum, without a response. And, to the extent I use logical argument and sound sources to refute them, that's really for the benefit of others because I know that haters are immune to such things. If my responses serve to better expose the bile of the haters, and the desperate illogic of their pseudo-arguments, that's good enough for me.
Oh yes, and let's not forget ridicule. Since logic is lost on haters, a nice dose of ridicule tends to shut them up for a while as they're not terribly clever and it takes some time for them to come up with a response. And it's even funnier when they can't think of one, as with Pedro M's inability to deal with his new role as a crusader against anti-mosquito racism!
DramaFree11
06-11-22, 02:23
When it comes to haters, there are a couple of points I think are important to keep in mind:
1. They can't be changed. Whatever the root causes of their hate, they're far too deep and pervasive to be changed from the outside. That means, for all practical purposes, that an adult hater is likely to stay that way until they draw their last hateful breath.
2. They can't be shamed. Their twisted world view has necessarily twisted pretty much everything else in their tortured existence. Logic and argumentation have no effect because, even if they're clearly demonstrated to be in the wrong, haters will simply twist, or deny, or otherwise move heaven and earth in an effort to keep their hate-bubble from being popped.
With those points in mind, my responses to haters are never directed primarily at them, but rather at the audience of readers. I simply refuse to allow the hateful posts to exist in a vacuum, without a response. And, to the extent I use logical argument and sound sources to refute them, that's really for the benefit of others because I know that haters are immune to such things. If my responses serve to better expose the bile of the haters, and the desperate illogic of their pseudo-arguments, that's good enough for me.
Oh yes, and let's not forget ridicule. Since logic is lost on haters, a nice dose of ridicule tends to shut them up for a while as they're not terribly clever and it takes some time for them to come up with a response. And it's even funnier when they can't think of one, as with Pedro M's inability to deal with his new role as a crusader against anti-mosquito racism!Interestingly, I want the war to end, and the 2 countries to find a solution. If that is s hater, then I am one. I do not care who wins, just end this ridiculous war, before things really get out of hand. If this drags on and gas hits $6-7, a gallon, in Texas, then you are looking at $10 in other states, this will cause huge financial ramifications and ruin countless lives.
I have bad news for guys, the more expensive gas gets the more Russia wins, Putin will keep this going forever, he obviously does not care. If you want to defeat Russia we must drill now, and keep the sanctions, but you liberals do not want to do this.
Could they be doing more to support Ukraine? Absolutely! But so could Germany, and the Germans can't claim any such existential reason for their tepid and miserly support.The Germans evidently are too preoccupied with increasing production and supplying the rest of the world with oil and natural gas from their vast reserves and oil fields. 🙄.
Interestingly, I want the war to end, and the 2 countries to find a solution. If that is s hater, then I am one. I do not care who wins, just end this ridiculous war, before things really get out of hand. If this drags on and gas hits $6-7, a gallon, in Texas, then you are looking at $10 in other states, this will cause huge financial ramifications and ruin countless lives.
I have bad news for guys, the more expensive gas gets the more Russia wins, Putin will keep this going forever, he obviously does not care. If you want to defeat Russia we must drill now, and keep the sanctions, but you liberals do not want to do this.US Oil companies are also making record profits--they don't need to charge the American consumer as much as they are. Drilling more now in the USA might also not be a bad idea.
Yes, you are a hater of Ukraine if you think genocide is acceptable (and, in this case, allowing Russia anything short of total defeat is consent or acquiescence to genocide)--and clearly you do. Appeasing Russia in any way is a horrible idea and will not lead to the stability that is your justification for wanting to stop the war by any means.
Plenty of Chairborne warriors, Keyboard Commandoes and Call of Duty Rambos posting on this blog that demand the USA fight Russia. What is needed is a law identifying them and automatically drafting them into an Ukrainian legion unit that needs fresh cannon fodder! All Keyboard commandoes, please report to the closest Ukrainian embassy for your ticket to a Ukrainian boot camp! Wave to Zelensky and the other Ukrainian politicians as they flee Ukraine with suitcases full of the $40 billion of cash the USA just sent them! If Ukraine does not survive, where will US politicians and their sons like Hunter Biden get their kickbacks, bribes and no-work jobs?
With the sensibilities of many being influenced by things like social media and sound-bites on the evening news, the idea that there's a simple solution to a complex problem needs to be constantly and thoroughly refuted.
While I'm not criticizing this specific article, it seems to me that most mainstream media outlets tend to be more a part of the problem than the solution. All too often they either restate the obvious or focus breathlessly on every little ebb and flow in the conflict.
Unfortunately, it's not as sexy (or as positive for ratings) to point out that defeating Russian imperial ambitions will require a long and concerted effort. So it's of paramount importance to guard against mental and emotional fatigue among the freedom-loving countries supporting Ukraine. That means continuing encouragement and support, in any way you can, for Ukrainian resistance is the way to go.
Another criticism I have of most media is their tendency to rely on sources that I would describe as low-hanging fruit. Any government source, for example, carries with it an implicit agenda. That doesn't mean the information is necessarily wrong or untrue, it simply means that the agenda needs to be taken into account.
With this current example, it's possible that the UK government, faced with high inflation and economic stresses, is trying to offload some or all of the responsibility onto the conflict. And it appears they're conditioning the public to expect more of the same. That may not be wrong, but it's an effective way for the govt to avoid making specific policy moves to address current conditions. Much easier to say that everything going on is due to factors beyond their control.
But, all criticism aside, I will applaud the authors for concluding the article with "Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognize, this is no longer a discretionary matter," a statement which is not only true but strikes the right tone.
Interestingly, I want the war to end, and the 2 countries to find a solution. If that is s hater, then I am one. I do not care who wins, just end this ridiculous war, before things really get out of hand. If this drags on and gas hits $6-7, a gallon, in Texas, then you are looking at $10 in other states, this will cause huge financial ramifications and ruin countless lives.
I have bad news for guys, the more expensive gas gets the more Russia wins, Putin will keep this going forever, he obviously does not care. If you want to defeat Russia we must drill now, and keep the sanctions, but you liberals do not want to do this.It doesn't matter how much you try to deny it, the plain truth is available to anyone who looks at your previous posts about Russia and Ukraine. Here's a direct link to help with that:
http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/search.php?searchid=10945092
It takes only a few minutes to peruse your posts since the beginning of the war. One thing that's immediately evident is your thoroughly anti-Ukrainian attitude. It ranges from a "they had it coming" kind of tone to advocating for a "they just need to bend over and take it up the ass" position.
Whenever you mention Russia, in stark contrast, you consistently minimize their responsibility for the aggression and, even when the subject of war crimes is raised, your (beyond pathetic!) response is to minimize that, as well, since you believe nobody will be able to hold Putin to account. Really? That's it? There's a rampaging murderer on the loose but it's too difficult and inconvenient to do anything about him (move along, move along). You display absolutely no sense of outrage, zero, zip, nada. Of course, if the raping and pillaging was happening on your street, or in your house, you'd be singing a different tune (assuming you survived).
But wait, there's more! Every time the discussion touches on finding a solution, you EXCLUSIVELY advocate for proposals that would disadvantage ONLY the Ukrainian side. In fact, your recent attempts to claim that you're concerned with both sides is transparently dishonest bullshit, probably caused by the fact that you've been consistently outed (and shredded) as an anti-Ukraine hater by myself and others.
But, but, but, you whine and complain, what about inflation and gas prices and my personal situation? Well, your wallet seems fat enough to enable you to cross the border into Mexico and find fat hookers to fuck, right? So, if cheap fucks like you are having no problem finding an ample source of cheap fucks, things must not be so bad, eh?
But please feel free to continue posting your anti-Ukraine bile. I actually relish the opportunity to keep demonstrating what a cowardly and lying sack of shit you are. And I'm also quite happy to know that all my responses will become a part of the forum-record that contributes to accurately identifying the fingerprints of a hater.
The Germans evidently are too preoccupied with increasing production and supplying the rest of the world with oil and natural gas from their vast reserves and oil fields. 🙄.Germany is going to do what it wants, and Israel is going to do what it wants. But your double-standard, with respect to these two important US allies, speaks for itself.
With those points in mind, my responses to haters are never directed primarily at them, but rather at the audience of readers. I simply refuse to allow the hateful posts to exist in a vacuum, without a response. And, to the extent I use logical argument and sound sources to refute them, that's really for the benefit of others because I know that haters are immune to such things. If my responses serve to better expose the bile of the haters, and the desperate illogic of their pseudo-arguments, that's good enough for me.In all seriousness this is a noble cause, and it assures that the Stupid Shit in Kyiv thread will never die. There's no commitment greater than commitment to lies. And as to any lonely attention seekers trolling just for reactions, then you are giving them what they are after and will keep coming back.
DramaFree11
06-12-22, 00:07
US Oil companies are also making record profits--they don't need to charge the American consumer as much as they are. Drilling more now in the USA might also not be a bad idea.
Yes, you are a hater of Ukraine if you think genocide is acceptable (and, in this case, allowing Russia anything short of total defeat is consent or acquiescence to genocide)--and clearly you do. Appeasing Russia in any way is a horrible idea and will not lead to the stability that is your justification for wanting to stop the war by any means.You are one, whacked guy. Hanging out in Kiev during a war. American's should not suffer for this stupidity. Let Europe deal with this. This is not the oil companies fault, you guys love to blame everyone else, but yourselves. President Biden is at fault for cutting production and increasing regulations.
Funny, I have forgotten more about Ukraine then you will ever know. First, you never talk about the corruption and how the government was stealing from everyone, including there own poor people. Secondly, you never talk about how everyone has been fleeing from the country for well over 10 years. You never bring of this up, you just conveniently forgot about it.
Hanging out in Ukraine makes, no sense even before the war. Most were saying how bad it was. You must not able to get girls in other countries, or too cheap, or both. You are one of the few that was singing the phrases of Ukraine before the war, it was a dump, filled with corruption. Call me what you want. This is endless stupid war. Yes, Ukraine government is partially to blame for all there lies, corruption and silly games, but ultimately most of the blame is on Putin. The Ukraine's that are still in country are incident victims.
Plenty of Chairborne warriors, Keyboard Commandoes and Call of Duty Rambos posting on this blog that demand the USA fight Russia. What is needed is a law identifying them and automatically drafting them into an Ukrainian legion unit that needs fresh cannon fodder! All Keyboard commandoes, please report to the closest Ukrainian embassy for your ticket to a Ukrainian boot camp! Wave to Zelensky and the other Ukrainian politicians as they flee Ukraine with suitcases full of the $40 billion of cash the USA just sent them! If Ukraine does not survive, where will US politicians and their sons like Hunter Biden get their kickbacks, bribes and no-work jobs?I've never advocated for the US to become directly militarily involved. Not once.
And the rest of your post is, quite simply, the purest example of vapid idiocy that's been seen in this forum for a long time. It's the ISG version of Coke Zero, without the Coke.
But, hey! You're getting very close to being promoted to a rank equivalent to Pedro M! There's still more work to be done, however. Keep posting about your loser wet-dreams and throw in a few about mosquitoes, and maybe slugs. Oh, yes! And Hasbro toys, don't forget about those.
If you try really hard, you could achieve Pedro M-ness before you know it.
In all seriousness this is a noble cause, and it assures that the Stupid Shit in Kyiv thread will never die. There's no commitment greater than commitment to lies. And as to any lonely attention seekers trolling just for reactions, then you are giving them what they are after and will keep coming back.I've been posting in various forums for a very long time and I keep seeing the mantra about "not feeding the trolls," which I believe is based on a bogus premise.
One way it's flawed is that it presumes that trolls are comprised of a single, homogenous group. There are some who will go away if ignored, but there are plenty who will not.
There are some, IMO, who have a hate-filled agenda and will never go away. Rather they're happy to fill any vacuum with their bile. When I see people being killed on a mass scale, and whole cities turned into piles of rubble, it doesn't put me in a mood to ignore those who gloat about and glorify such evil. So my response is two-fold, expose their lies and humiliate them as much as I possibly can. While they may be attention-seekers, no one likes being made into a laughingstock.
That's my two-cents worth, and I won't be changing my approach. If that doesn't fit your model, feel free to take your own advice and ignore my posts.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1535582101621420032.html
The Russian-born author writes about how the book market (popular, not literature) was used from the 2010's to rehabilitate Stalin and shape Russian public opinion about Ukraine, the West, and more.
But wait, there's more! Every time the discussion touches on finding a solution, you EXCLUSIVELY advocate for proposals that would disadvantage ONLY the Ukrainian side. In fact, your recent attempts to claim that you're concerned with both sides is transparently dishonest bullshit, probably caused by the fact that you've been consistently outed (and shredded) as an anti-Ukraine hater by myself and others.
But, but, but, you whine and complain, what about inflation and gas prices and my personal situation? Well, your wallet seems fat enough to enable you to cross the border into Mexico and find fat hookers to fuck, right? So, if cheap fucks like you are having no problem finding an ample source of cheap fucks, things must not be so bad, eh?
But please feel free to continue posting your anti-Ukraine bile. I actually relish the opportunity to keep demonstrating what a cowardly and lying sack of shit you are. And I'm also quite happy to know that all my responses will become a part of the forum-record that contributes to accurately identifying the fingerprints of a hater.He couldn't care less about anyone's life but maybe his own. The main objective though is to whine online playing Chicken Little while all his needs are met and he has hooker money ta boot. If it weren't the war he's be squawking that the end is near about something else. It's a way of life for some people.
PedroMorales
06-12-22, 09:39
As the heroes of the Russian Army finish liberating Sievierodonetsk, the Nazis have retreated with their human hostages to the chemical plant, where they will probably stage a false flag attack. Democracy's enemies. The Zelensky junta and their Western backers. Know they are beaten and their tooth to tail ratio says it all. Zelenksy and the other gangsters have made a fortune selling hardware on the Dark Web (one more reason to be careful of air travel).
The hasbara racists here calling Russians orcs should stfu. Ukraine destroyed, Poland is next.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;.
A well balanced Article which doesn't read like an Early End to the war.
https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/ukraine-russia-war-donbas-uk-european-allies-b1004824.html
Main points of concern. "Correspondents being briefed by Whitehall officials last week were surprised to be warned that the UK and United States now expect the fighting in Ukraine to go on to the end of the year".
"Ukrainian forces realise that they are in for a long fight and British strategic analysts now think the war itself and security crisis is set to run for at least three years more".
Conclusion. 'The war has become like firelighter fuel on the flaring cost-of-living emergency affecting the food and energy security of this country. Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognise, this is no longer a discretionary matter". / QUOTE.
As if they are singing from the same hymn sheet about When, How, the war in Ukraine will ene.
Again I will Highlight the main points in this Article by Richard Hass. https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2022-06-10/ukraine-strategy-long-haul.
1. "But wars end in only one of two ways: when one side imposes its will on the other, first on the battlefield, then at the negotiating table, or when both sides embrace a compromise they deem preferable to fighting. In Ukraine, neither scenario is likely to materialize anytime soon. The conflict has become a war of attrition, with Russian and Ukrainian forces now concentrated against each other in a relatively confined area. Diplomatically, the Ukrainians have little interest in accepting Russian occupation of large swaths of their territory. Russian President Vladimir Putin, for his part, has little interest in agreeing to anything that could be judged at home to constitute defeat. The inescapable conclusion, then, is that this war will go on—and on".
2 . "With victory and compromise both off the table for the foreseeable future, the United States and Europe need a strategy for managing an open-ended conflict. "Managing," not "solving," is the operative word here, because a solution almost certainly would require a fundamental change in Moscow's behavior.
3 Conclusion. The solution is in Moscow " Ultimately, what is probably required to end the war is a change not in Washington but in Moscow. In all likelihood, given Putin's deep investment in the war, it will require someone other than him to take steps that would end Russia's pariah status, economic crisis, and military quagmire. The West should make clear that it is ready to reward a new Russian leader prepared to take such steps even as it keeps up the pressure on the current one".
[QUOTE=TravvPlenty of Chairborne warriors, Keyboard Commandoes and Call of Duty Rambos posting on this blog that demand the USA fight Russia. What is needed is a law identifying them and automatically drafting them into an Ukrainian legion unit that needs fresh cannon fodder![/QUOTE]The simple solution would be to supply Ukraine with what it needs most, namely Longer Range Missiles to enable it also to hit targets deep in Russia https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/02/ukraine-donbas-us-military-aid-long-range-missiles/.
Well we all know why that want happen! https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/05/ukraine-putin-missiles/.
'Putin threatens to hit new targets if long-range missiles are sent to Ukraine."
Germany is going to do what it wants, and Israel is going to do what it wants. But your double-standard, with respect to these two important US allies, speaks for itself.What color's the sky where you are?
Hasbara trolls crying about 'double standards'. You can't make this stuff up.
As the heroes of the Russian Army finish liberating Sievierodonetsk, the Nazis have retreated with their human hostages to the chemical plant, where they will probably stage a false flag attack. Democracy's enemies. The Zelensky junta and their Western backers. Know they are beaten and their tooth to tail ratio says it all. Zelenksy and the other gangsters have made a fortune selling hardware on the Dark Web (one more reason to be careful of air travel).
The hasbara racists here calling Russians orcs should stfu. Ukraine destroyed, Poland is next.Interesting news, although you were obviously already aware, that Putin's goons collect his shit and piss whenever he goes abroad.
https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/vladimir-putins-bodyguards-box-up-his-poo-on-trips-abroad-report/news-story/d547e847accdb70c3b00bf7d9e2544f0
Do they freeze-dry it so you can restock your pantry, or do you eat it fresh? Does it concern you that LilliPutin's excrement is probably loaded with cancer cells?
Only thing worse than a psychopath is a paranoid psychopath. Or is that an oxymoron?
P.S. Please tell us, what does orc-shit taste like? Is it a little bit like chicken? And do you take your orc-piss straight up, or with ice?
What color's the sky where you are?
Hasbara trolls crying about 'double standards'. You can't make this stuff up.Wow, it must be pretty bare in that anti-Semitic nano-cranium of yours if the best retort you can muster is a parroting of the lame Hasbro Toys insult trademarked by your Putin-loving troll-twin!
Thanks for conclusively demonstrating your intellectual and rhetorical impotence for all to see. I think there's a pill for that. You should check it out. Alas, I'm not aware of any cure for terminal unoriginality.
BTW, the color of the sky today is Jewish. Oops, I mean blue-ish. Is the color of the sky where you are a shade of orc-ish, or maybe a little bigot-ish?
DramaFree11
06-12-22, 17:12
Jojosun,
Amazing post. They need to find a solution. I also feel they need to force Ukraine to negotiate, if they are unwilling, then there needs to be ramification.
Yes, the United States and Europe need a strategy to deal with this ASAP. Start drilling our asses off. I can care less if the oil companies make money, this a much better option then Putin laughing all the way to the bank.
I've been posting in various forums for a very long time and I keep seeing the mantra about "not feeding the trolls," which I believe is based on a bogus premise.
One way it's flawed is that it presumes that trolls are comprised of a single, homogenous group. There are some who will go away if ignored, but there are plenty who will not.
There are some, IMO, who have a hate-filled agenda and will never go away. Rather they're happy to fill any vacuum with their bile. When I see people being killed on a mass scale, and whole cities turned into piles of rubble, it doesn't put me in a mood to ignore those who gloat about and glorify such evil. So my response is two-fold, expose their lies and humiliate them as much as I possibly can. While they may be attention-seekers, no one likes being made into a laughingstock.
That's my two-cents worth, and I won't be changing my approach. If that doesn't fit your model, feel free to take your own advice and ignore my posts.Your defensiveness is unwarranted as I wasn't thinking in terms of any "mantras. " But it does stand to reason that attention seekers will go where they are get it. It takes no keen analysis to figure that one out.
PedroMorales
06-12-22, 17:21
What color's the sky where you are?
Hasbara trolls crying about 'double standards'. You can't make this stuff up.Another British has died for Slava Ukraini. Very said https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10908745/British-former-soldier-killed-fighting-frontline-Ukraine.html.
On the positive side, the weather is good in Kiev and everyone is out enjoying it https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10908575/Ukrainians-flock-beaches-Kyiv-defiance-against-Russian-invasion.html.
Poland, a staunch ally of the Kiev Nazis, is telling its folk to forage for wood, if they don; t want to freeze next winter. One of my Polak servants tells me the price of coal has more than doubled back home. In a country that is half coal https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/06/03/poland-encourages-people-to-collect-firewood-in-forests-amid-soaring-energy-costs/.
Slava Ukraine: Glory hole to Zelenskys bank account. I see this utter lunatic who plays the piano with his weiner is now threatening China over Taiwan. We are being troll led by this degenerate https://www.laprensalatina.com/zelenskyy-calls-for-diplomatic-preventive-action-for-taiwan/.
Flash your dick, become a corrupt Ukrainian President.
US Oil companies are also making record profits--they don't need to charge the American consumer as much as they are. Drilling more now in the USA might also not be a bad idea.There is an old adage "the cure for high oil prices is high oil prices".
It's obvious when you break down the logic. High oil prices will encourage more global exploration and production. It does every time. We have lived through these cycles many times. Additionally, I bet sales of big ass trucks and SUVs are slowing down.
A few climate zealots will always proclaim we are running out of oil. It also doesn't help when the USA And Europe are deliberately muting the price signals to produce more gas and oil domestically.
Plenty of Chairborne warriors, Keyboard Commandoes and Call of Duty Rambos posting on this blog that demand the USA fight Russia. What is needed is a law identifying them and automatically drafting them into an Ukrainian legion unit that needs fresh cannon fodder!This outburst is fallacious on it's face as it attempts to take the focus off the arguments you object to and place it on the personal characters of the persons making them. Yes, if someone comes to my city unprovoked waging war, bombing maternity wards and bread lines I'll take up weapons and defend. I likewise support our allies, the Ukrainians who wish to do the same in their cities. Having an opinion on that doesn't commit one to becoming a professional overseas mercenary, and that especially applies to the AARP members among us. There's thus no hypocrisy involved. Your fallacy is called the tu quoque, which is a take on the ad hominem.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem
Go back and try again, and present some arguments as to why you feel Russia is in the right, and why Ukrainians are unworthy of help and / or why the West shouldn't help them. Your buddies could use some help as they are stuck in a loop of refuted arguments and can't seem to find any new material.
But, hey! You're getting very close to being promoted to a rank equivalent to Pedro M!How do you know they aren't the same person?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/11/the-return-of-banditry-russian-car-industry-buckles-under-sanctions
Since Putin's propaganda peddlers will always paint a positive picture, it's informative to examine some real-world examples.
The first part of the article deals with automotive issues. The second part talks about aviation and contains a couple of ominous quotes from Russian pilots:
1. "One pilot who regularly covered midhaul flights to the UK and other European destinations for his airline wrote that the situation was "fucked", adding that he felt his company was ignoring safety concerns brought up by pilots on a regular basis."
2. "According to my information, some (Russian) airlines in their warehouses have enough wheels and pads for another month maximum."
The second quote is extremely interesting as, although not terribly sexy, aircraft wheels, brake pads, and similar parts, are constantly experiencing wear and tear, requiring replacement on a routine (maintenance) schedule or on an emergency basis. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see a significant incident with a Russian airline (non-missile related) in the near future. Also, as safety concerns rise, will Russian planes be denied certification for landing at airports that are currently open to them (Turkey, China, UAE, etc.)? Just another set of items to add to the Russia Collapse-O-Meter watchlist.
So my response is two-fold, expose their lies and humiliate them as much as I possibly can. While they may be attention-seekers, no one likes being made into a laughingstock.Like I said, keep it up. It makes for some fun reading, but few of these will ever feel humiliated. That's because they have a long list of logical fallacies to fall back on. Probably the most used in monger forums is the ad nauseum or proof by repetition. In this they ignore all rebuttals and repeat the same fallacious arguments over and over. Then they save face in their minds and avoid feeling humiliated.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-by-Repetition
I also feel they need to force Ukraine to negotiate, if they are unwilling, then there needs to be ramification.Sure, ignore the murderous, rapacious, Z-elephant in the room. What a pathetic piece of work you are. And once again you try to pretend you're being "even-handed" when you're truly anti-Ukraine, right down to your cowardly core.
Another British has died for Slava Ukraini. Very said https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10908745/British-former-soldier-killed-fighting-frontline-Ukraine.html.
On the positive side, the weather is good in Kiev and everyone is out enjoying it https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10908575/Ukrainians-flock-beaches-Kyiv-defiance-against-Russian-invasion.html.
Poland, a staunch ally of the Kiev Nazis, is telling its folk to forage for wood, if they don; t want to freeze next winter. One of my Polak servants tells me the price of coal has more than doubled back home. In a country that is half coal https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/06/03/poland-encourages-people-to-collect-firewood-in-forests-amid-soaring-energy-costs/.
Slava Ukraine: Glory hole to Zelenskys bank account. I see this utter lunatic who plays the piano with his weiner is now threatening China over Taiwan. We are being troll led by this degenerate https://www.laprensalatina.com/zelenskyy-calls-for-diplomatic-preventive-action-for-taiwan/.
Flash your dick, become a corrupt Ukrainian President.https://nypost.com/2022/06/06/two-russian-generals-dead-in-one-day-of-donbas-fighting-report/
I wonder what the casualty list would look like if it included officers shot, blown up, or run over, by their own "loyal" Russian troops?
That reminds me, where's Gerasimov? I haven't seen any Putin-propaganda reports about his "victorious" visit to the front lines. You know, the one in which he was wounded and barely escaped with his life. Yes, that one.
And where are the accounts of front line visits by Head Orc Putin? Not even a trip to "friendly" areas? What's up with that?
Maybe there's a critical shortage of Poop-Brigade members? Hey, Pedro M, your services are urgently required!
Like I said, keep it up. It makes for some fun reading, but few of these will ever feel humiliated. That's because they have a long list of logical fallacies to fall back on. Probably the most used in monger forums is the ad nauseum or proof by repetition. In this they ignore all rebuttals and repeat the same fallacious arguments over and over. Then they save face in their minds and avoid feeling humiliated.
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-by-Repetition
How do you know they aren't the same person?I don't. But I'm perfectly capable of humiliating one multiple-personality afflicted troll as easily as two separate ones.
It makes for some fun reading, but few of these will ever feel humiliated.The humiliating effect of the posts is intended for the audience, rather than the humiliatee. Turning the troll into a laughingstock, an object of ridicule and derision, is the aim. I well understand that the trolls have no shame, as they lack the necessary self-awareness.
Your defensiveness is unwarranted as I wasn't thinking in terms of any "mantras. " But it does stand to reason that attention seekers will go where they are get it. It takes no keen analysis to figure that one out.To the first part: If you don't want to provoke an (IMO) understandable defensive response, then you might want to avoid responding to posts, not directed at you, with what can reasonably be construed as a lecturing tone.
To the second part: I don't dispute the attention-seeking characterization of trolls. Rather I dispute the assumption that all of them will simply go away if ignored. It's my assertion that there's a subset of trolls, most notably the hate-filled variety, who will never go away. And that's because hate needs no outside driver or stimulus. Hate is self-perpetuating because it's motivated by twisted internal factors, and it sees the promulgation of hate as its own reward. It's like a horribly troubled child who tortures cats or pulls the wings off flies. Anyone who says it's just a phase, and will go away if ignored, is just wrong.
DramaFree11
06-13-22, 06:52
Sure, ignore the murderous, rapacious, Z-elephant in the room. What a pathetic piece of work you are. And once again you try to pretend you're being "even-handed" when you're truly anti-Ukraine, right down to your cowardly core.As, I said I can care less how wins, find a solution.
Both sides are terrible, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt governments ever or an Evil Dictator, pick your poison. Both sides are extremely corrupt, and we should not let them drag the worlds economy down, with there stupid decisions.
Let's do an Audit of Ukraine President and Parliament, I doubt you guys will like what we find.
PedroMorales
06-13-22, 08:53
NATO office boy Jens Stoltenberg, at a meeting with Finland's office boys, has said NATO will trade Ukrainian territory for peace. Too late. Ukraine must meet the demands of Russia and, if Poland and Romania ant a slice, ok. Also, the Biden family and other Americans involved in biolabs must get their day in court, a Russian court.
Stoltenberg would do best by traveling to the north of his country and camping out with polar bears, who need a feed.
Finland, meanwhile, now won't join NATO without Sweden.
Hopefully soon it will be open season.
Zelensky, the gangster who plays the piano with his cock, is abandoned, just like he abandoned his troops in the East.
Other News: There have been over two dozen mass shootings in the USA since those children were massacred in Texas. The Israelis, who are over represented in this thread, continue to slaughter and rob the natives by the day. You people are beyond contempt.
Let's not forget how the war really started back in 2014. Of course no one is talking about these things. And we all know who is behind the coup.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXslPCrN_9E
I'm with my Ukrainian girlfriend now in Chisinau. She arrived a week ago and everything is going well between us. For a short while in March / April, she was back in the small town where she grew up, living with her relatives, even had a job in her father's factory. Told me she had changed and might not be able to see me any more. Then after another month she quarreled with her relatives, returned to Kyiv and was back to her normal self. Nothing like a few months of factory work in a small town to make a girl appreciate being sponsored in the big city.
I don't try to put ideas in her head. Just let her talk. She is ethnic Ukrainian, but not nationalist. Mainly worried about the apartment in Kyiv she bought last year, which has escaped damage so far. Doesn't give a damn about Donbas or Crimea. Was complaining that Poroshenko wanted and Zelensky wants war because they can steal more that way. Also complains that all the good young men are dying (in other words, she wants options to being dependent on 30 year older foreigners like me, not that I'm surprised or offended). Bad young men (alcoholics, criminals, stupid) are not at risk because the army doesn't want them or they run off and hide in a dacha somewhere. She predicts the next generation of Ukrainians will be idiots if they keep killing the good young men while leaving bad ones alive. I disagreed: one surviving good man can impregnate 100 young women, if necessary. But not me, I have a vasectomy. Anyway, I don't think she has any interest in children. She got a cat when she turned 30 and her phone is filled with photos of the animal. (he is cute, I must admit.).
War isn't over, but the outcome is increasingly obvious. At the current rate of bleeding, Ukraine will be in no position to launch a counter-attack. New USA artillery enough to stop Russian advances, but not push Russia back. So there will be a stalemate. Russia takes entire southeast, including access to Azov sea. Then they dig trenches and wait 5 years for EU to get tired of hearing about Ukraine. Meanwhile, Russia reconfigures to be immune to sanctions, thus free to cause all sorts of mischief for USA. Predictably bad result for USA, but that's what happens when silly young idealists in the State Department are let to run loose.
Prior to 2014, Ukraine was merely being pressured to accept subordination to Russia, same as Canada and Mexico are subordinate to USA. After the thug-led street putsch of 2014, as punishment for their treasonous attempt to switch from team Russia to team USA, Ukraine was deprived of Crimea and put under pressure to give Donbas some autonomy and renounce treason towards team Russia. This was the situation when Zelensky entered office. By the time Zelensky leaves office, Ukraine will presumably have lost the entire southeast (no longer an option to keep these oblasts but give them some local autonomy regarding language policy), plus it will have suffered immense human and property destruction, plus there will still be an ongoing and costly stalemate conflict. Talk about a disastrous presidency (I'm referring to Zelensky, not Putin or Biden). Maybe the USA and EU will financially bail out what remains of Ukraine, though I wouldn't count on 100% bailout.
Dramafree11 obviously doesn't think highly of Ukraine, but then neither do I, given how stupidly they have behaved these past 30 years. Neither he nor I is praising Russia. But to give another metaphor, if you live next door to a mafia boss and he tells he doesn't want people parking on the street in front of his house, it's stupid argue that he has no right to impose such rules. Is asserting your right to park where you want really worth having your windshield smashed, your skull fractured by one of his goons, your child shot in the stomach, etc?
Some stupid commentators here couldn't understand my previous metaphor about robbery, and no doubt they'll repeat their stupidity in interpreting this metaphor. The very essence of stupidity is to misunderstand threats. Stupid people can't understand anything, so they have to be taught the hard way, by physical pain. You don't know why the mafia boss wants the street kept clear. Maybe he wants to throw his weight around and show everyone he's boss, maybe he has good security reasons related to threats from other mafia bosses. Regardless, his demand is easy to comply with. If every time a mafia boss makes a small demand, you start shrieking like Chicken Little that the sky is falling and it's Hitler and 1938 all over again and next step is genocide, etc, etc then you lack judgement. Which is equivalent to saying you are a stupid fool, and hopefully you will never be given a position of responsibility in the USA. Ukraine is a fine example of what happens when stupid fools are given power. I can personally survive the destruction of Ukraine, since I'm not heavily invested there, but USA is another story.
Let's not forget how the war really started back in 2014. Of course no one is talking about these things. And we all know who is behind the coup.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXslPCrN_9ESlava Ukrainia.
https://t.me/NewResistance/9723
John Clayton
06-13-22, 17:12
Slava Ukrainia.
https://t.me/NewResistance/9723Pure Russian propaganda.
John Clayton
06-13-22, 17:25
...After the thug-led street putsch of 2014, as punishment for their treasonous attempt to switch from team Russia to team USA, Ukraine was deprived of Crimea and put under pressure to give Donbas some autonomy and renounce treason towards team Russia...This is Russian can't. What is the treason? Treason the crime of betraying one's country (you know, like Benedict Arnold or Trump). Ukraine is a sovereign nation and its territorial integrity was guaranteed by international treaty (and the Russian Federation was a signator) in 1994.
Despite all their disinformation about nazis, oppression of ethnic Russians, whatever, Putin has recently flatly admitted that is war is about territorial aggrandizement and restoring the historic Russian empire.
I'm with my UKRAINIAN GIRLFRIEND now in Chisinau..............
I don't try to put ideas in her head. Just let her talk. She is ethnic Ukrainian, but not nationalist. MAINLY WORRIED ABOUT HER APARTMENT IN KYIV she bought last year.............
Meanwhile, Russia reconfigures to be immune to sanctions, thus free to cause all sorts of mischief for USA. Predictably bad result for USA, but that's what happens when silly young idealists in the State Department are let to run loose.
Prior to 2014, Ukraine was merely being pressured to accept subordination to Russia, same as Canada and Mexico are subordinate to USA.I highlighted a few words that I think might give us a bit more on your girlfriend's perspective. Nothing personal, but she might have more of a mercenary type personality. You travel the third world and find people can have no deep affinity for their own country. I'm not talking about cultural aspects like food and music. The young women have options with foreign men which further pulls them away. I don't know your girlfriend and I certainly don't know her motivations and future plans. However, I don't think my comments are a stretch.
While I don't think anyone should be cheering on this conflict, I am in the camp that Putin's Russia would keep fucking with its neighbors and it would never end. The danger is Putin stupidly underestimates Europe and his military crosses a NATO border. The Merkel appeasement is hopefully over. So there is much more here at stake than a fledgling democracy with corruption. (One by the way should look at the early histories of the democracies in Taiwan and South Korea to understand that not all democracies jump into a Jeffersonian state on day one.).
I believe this came up before. You oversell your opinion projected through your girlfriend. You are seriously comparing Ukraine's relationship to Russia with Canada and Mexico's relationship to the USA Not to mention Canada is a robust democracy, I know some Canadians that would laugh at your comparison. They are not trying to emulate or respond to the United States politically. I'm not sure the Mexicans are either.
If you said Canada and Mexico are economically dependent on the United States, of course they are having long borders with the largest economy in the world. The Ukrainians have essentially voted for closer ties with the European Union. Russia is an economic shit show overly dependent on the price of oil and gas. Why would the Ukrainians hitch their economic future to Russia?
As far as your silly mafia reference, what would one do if they had a known child molester living next door? Would you let your kids play outside unattended? Or would you try to have him arrested for approaching your children?
As, I said I can care less how wins, find a solution.
Both sides are terrible, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt governments ever or an Evil Dictator, pick your poison. Both sides are extremely corrupt, and we should not let them drag the worlds economy down, with there stupid decisions.
Let's do an Audit of Ukraine President and Parliament, I doubt you guys will like what we find.Putin has blatantly boasted that Russia's ambitions extend far beyond Ukraine. That is the reason that Poland, and the Baltics, are responding the way they are. They rightly see this war as merely the first salvo in a longer-term existential battle.
People who view this conflict as though it only concerns Ukraine are not only ignoring the facts, but also LilliPutin's own words and threats.
Solution: Defeat Russia!
There, fixed it for you (again). BTW, every time you repeat the lie that you don't care who wins, I'll continue to point out your anti-Ukraine posting history AND the fact that every one of your "solutions" would only disadvantage the Ukrainian side. So, not only are you a liar, but you're also a coward because you try to hide behind a facade of even-handedness that is blatantly false and fraudulent. If you had even a scintilla of courage, you'd be up front about your (purely) anti-Ukraine position.
As for me, the reason I'm picking Ukraine, even with their record of corruption, is that there exists at least the possibility of change. Specifically, if they want to join the EU (and they do), they'll need to pass laws and implement significant reforms to meet anti-corruption benchmarks and standards. And EU candidate status can last for years, which would give such reforms a chance to take hold. Even if you don't like Zelensky, he's not going to be president forever. So, on one hand, Ukraine (even with a poor record in the past) at least has the HOPE and possibility for change. Additionally, nothing motivates change more than a traumatic event, like a near-death experience. Ukraine is currently undergoing such an experience on a national scale. Besides, the other choice is unacceptable, as anyone who picks Russia is choosing to side with a genocidal, psychopathic, megalomaniac.
What does the future hold? I have no crystal ball and, as I've stated often, making predictions is a fool's errand. But, based on history, and the way recent and current events have played out, Russia is by far the bigger problem to Europe and the world. And their naked aggression, and commission of war crimes against civilians, demands both resistance and defeat.
P.S. If Ukraine achieves EU candidate status, I have no doubt there will be a number of audits and examinations. Will there ever be such audits in Russia? Nope, not ever.
Pure Russian propaganda.Of course, it is. Anything that doesn't fit the narrative you've ingested is Pure Propaganda. Baaa, baaaa.
This is Ukraine is a sovereign nation and its territorial integrity was guaranteed by international treaty (and the Russian Federation was a signator) in 1994.R2P Serbia. But that was different.
DramaFree11
06-14-22, 00:38
Putin has blatantly boasted that Russia's ambitions extend far beyond Ukraine. That is the reason that Poland, and the Baltics, are responding the way they are. They rightly see this war as merely the first salvo in a longer-term existential battle.
People who view this conflict as though it only concerns Ukraine are not only ignoring the facts, but also LilliPutin's own words and threats.
Solution: Defeat Russia!
There, fixed it for you (again). BTW, every time you repeat the lie that you don't care who wins, I'll continue to point out your anti-Ukraine posting history AND the fact that every one of your "solutions" would only disadvantage the Ukrainian side. So, not only are you a liar, but you're also a coward because you try to hide behind a facade of even-handedness that is blatantly false and fraudulent. If you had even a scintilla of courage, you'd be up front about your (purely) anti-Ukraine position.
As for me, the reason I'm picking Ukraine, even with their record of corruption, is that there exists at least the possibility of change. Specifically, if they want to join the EU (and they do), they'll need to pass laws and implement significant reforms to meet anti-corruption benchmarks and standards. And EU candidate status can last for years, which would give such reforms a chance to take hold. Even if you don't like Zelensky, he's not going to be president forever. So, on one hand, Ukraine (even with a poor record in the past) at least has the HOPE and possibility for change. Additionally, nothing motivates change more than a traumatic event, like a near-death experience. Ukraine is currently undergoing such an experience on a national scale. Besides, the other choice is unacceptable, as anyone who picks Russia is choosing to side with a genocidal, psychopathic, megalomaniac.
What does the future hold? I have no crystal ball and, as I've stated often, making predictions is a fool's errand. But, based on history, and the way recent and current events have played out, Russia is by far the bigger problem to Europe and the world. And their naked aggression, and commission of war crimes against civilians, demands both resistance and defeat.
P.S. If Ukraine achieves EU candidate status, I have no doubt there will be a number of audits and examinations. Will there ever be such audits in Russia? Nope, not ever.You are total denial. Ukraine should not be allowed to join anything until they clean up there act. Produce Oil and you defeat Russia, very easy, but you guys do not want to do that.
Secondly, if Russia can not defeat Ukraine and a few Special Force Teams, they obviously can not fight there way out of a wet paper bag. They are not a threat, unlike are ridiculous Media claims and even worse the CIA. There military is terrible.
I do not care who wins, but somebody please win. When The war stops the killing stops. I have bad news for you, Russia is now winning, and the higher gas prices go the more they win. Again I have zero compassion for the Ukraine government. I do care about the incident lives being lost. You guys are playing right into Putin hand. Sorry, but that is what the Ukraine government does is lose, steal and lie. They were winning, but as usual they got greedy and are too stupid to realize it.
Both sides are terrible, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt governments ever or an Evil Dictator, pick your poison.See what I mean folks? Fallacy of the ad nauseam, or proof by repetition. You've equated Ukraine with Russia dozens of times, and been refuted dozens of times. However you ignore the refutations and keep repeating the same lie over and over, and will continue to do the same until hell freezes over. But here it is again, Ukraine has a Freedom House score, which considers corruption and other measures, of 61, about on par with Tucker Carlson's favorite country Hungary. This isn't great but isn't bad for the region and is worlds ahead of Russia at 15 and their buddies Belarus at 5. It's also ahead of a number of Euro countries. So, in the end you are dishonest and refuse to engage other than to repeat the same tired and long refuted sentiments over and over. The first time can be ascribed to ignorance. Persisting after corrections you make yourself a habitual liar which isn't surprising.
https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_nauseam
To the second part: I don't dispute the attention-seeking characterization of trolls. Rather I dispute the assumption that all of them will simply go away if ignored. It's my assertion that there's a subset of trolls, most notably the hate-filled variety, who will never go away. And that's because hate needs no outside driver or stimulus. Hate is self-perpetuating because it's motivated by twisted internal factors, and it sees the promulgation of hate as its own reward. It's like a horribly troubled child who tortures cats or pulls the wings off flies. Anyone who says it's just a phase, and will go away if ignored, is just wrong.There's a reward for the sadist in your example as they get to witness the distress of the animal or insect. Your typical online troll wants feedback. If no one is responding in any way there's none, plus they don't know if anyone is even reading their posts. They'll go someplace else where the fish are biting which isn't hard to do online. In any case your analogy is false, and by default, so is your conclusion. Wink.
https://fallacyinlogic.com/false-analogy-definition-and-examples/
P.S. Regarding humiliation, and based on standard definitions it's tough to argue that you are humiliating a person if they are experiencing no such feelings. From Webster's:
"to reduce (someone) to a lower position in one's own eyes or others' eyes: to make (someone) ashamed or embarrassed: Mortify".
Take DramaFree11 as an example. He's been here and on a thread in another forum about four months equating Ukraine and Russia in the matter of evil. He calls on the West to stop helping the former while doing the Chicken Little, claiming world economies will implode and endless lives will be destroyed if we continue the course. He was around two years saying the same about Covid BTW in the matter of mitigation efforts and with no fulfillment. But where's the new material? Where the humiliation? I just summed up his whole argument in less than one minute, two sentences. There's been no change. Rebuttals are ignored. It's just a couple of talking points one could gather halfway watching Tucker Carlson one night. No "proof" is offered beyond anecdotes and speculations. No links. So what does he get for his two to three minutes of typing each day? A three paragraph, well thought out essay from you in return. That's a good return on his investment, and all with the same two sentence argument, and for about four months. LOL But I'm sure not going in circles with someone like that. It comes down to how you want to spend your time I suppose.
PedroMorales
06-14-22, 08:08
Yours was a good and well thought out post. The replies you elicited come from American and Israeli Nazis who destroyed Libya, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Yugoslavia etc so keep that in mind. It is hard to know which of them are the more despicable. Your girl friend is, of course, like most others. She wants to get by. Not so Israeli and American psychopaths. Abominable creatures.
More war crimes yesterday by Zelensky's Nazis shelling residential areas. Russian batteries seem to have the bead on them now so expect more tears from the Nazis and racists soon.
I'm with my Ukrainian girlfriend now in Chisinau.
NATO office boy Jens Stoltenberg, at a meeting with Finland's office boys, has said NATO will trade Ukrainian territory for peace.Primary sources are always preferable, when available. It took all of 5 minutes to find the actual transcripts of NATO speeches and press conferences.
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions.htm
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_196300.htm?selectedLocale=en
"So first to the question of whether peace is possible. Yes, peace is possible. The question is what kind of peace? Because if Ukraine withdraw its forces and stop fighting, then Ukraine will cease to exist as an independent, sovereign nation in Europe. If President Putin stops fighting, then we'll have peace. So the dilemma is, of course, that peace is always possible. Surrender can provide peace. But as we have seen, the Ukrainians, they don't accept peace at any price. They are actually willing to pay a very high price for their independence. And again, Finland is a country that really knows the price for peace and also the price for independence and being a sovereign nation. And it's not for me to judge how high price the Ukrainians should be willing to pay. I mean, we pay a price because we provide support, we see the economic effects of the economic sanctions. But there is no doubt, as you said Sauli, that the highest price is paid by Ukrainians every day. And therefore it's for them to judge, not for me, what is the price they are willing to pay, for peace and for independence? So, that's, in a way, the moral dilemma. Peace is possible, but the question, how much are you willing to forsake to pay for getting that peace? The absolute best way to achieve peace in Ukraine is for President Putin to end this senseless war. We have to remember, every morning, every day, every hour during the day, there is one man, one nation that is responsible for that and that is President Putin. Then we have difficult dilemmas, difficult choices, but it is President Putin's brutal invasion of Ukraine that has created those dilemmas. And they can be solved by. . . From his side by ending the war. Then, one more thing on this, is that as President Zelensky has stated many times, this war will end at the negotiating table. The question is what kind of position will the Ukrainians have when they negotiate a solution? Our responsibility is to make that position as strong as possible. We know that there is a very close link between what you can achieve at the negotiating table and your position at the battlefield. So our military support to them is a way to strengthen their hand at the negotiating table when they, hopefully soon, will sit there and negotiate the peace agreement. So that was 'peace is possible' that's not the question anyway, the question is: what price are you willing to pay for peace? How much territory? How much independence? How much sovereignty? How much freedom? How much democracy are you willing to sacrifice for peace? And that's a very difficult moral dilemma. And it's for those who are paying the highest price to make that judgement. Our responsibility is to support them. Then, on escalation, I think it's extremely important that we remember there is a danger of escalation. Also, as you said this morning, a horizontal escalation, we always see a kind of vertical escalation more fighting, more suffering, heavier weapons in Ukraine but escalation beyond Ukraine. And NATO has been very aware of this risk since the beginning, actually before the invasion, because we have to remember that when the invasion came, we were very prepared. In one way, we have been prepared for this eventuality since 2014, with the biggest reinforcement of our collective defence since the Cold War, with the battlegroups in the eastern part of the Alliance, more defence spending, higher readiness, new command structure and all that. And then it was, actually, when we met, I remember we met, we discussed the possibility of an invasion of Ukraine. We had very precise intelligence on the nation. Russia absolutely denied. We had the meeting in the NATO-Russia Council in January, I think it was, where that was the last serious effort from our side to find a negotiated way out of this. Russia said, 'We have no plans whatsoever to invade. ' They actually sent out pictures, days beforehand, showing some battle tanks moving over this bridge (the strait between Azov and the Black Sea, saying that they were actually withdrawing their forces. Then they invaded. And then, that morning, we activated NATO's defence plans and deployed significant additional troops, because we were prepared, and now we have 40,000 NATO troops in the eastern part of the Alliance. Why did we do that? To prevent escalation. Because we have this increased presence to send an absolutely clear message to President Putin, to remove any room for miscalculation, misunderstanding in Moscow about our readiness to protect and defend every Ally. And as long as that's clear, there will be no attack. So our deterrence is to prevent escalation. I'm sad that we are in such a situation, because it would have been better for all of us if we could spend all that money we now are spending on deterrence, more weapons, more artillery, more missiles, more troops, more ships, more planes on education, health, infrastructure. But in a more dangerous world, we have to invest in security and that's exactly what we'll do to prevent escalation. So, I know I'm being a bit long, but we are. . . NATO is actually doing two things to prevent escalation. One is deterrence. As we do and we'll also make new decisions at the Madrid summit to strengthen further our posture: investing more, more troops, more readiness. But the only thing we do, is that we don't move into Ukraine. And that's not an easy decision. In my conversations, my talks, with the Ukrainian leaders, including President Zelensky, it's not easy to tell them that we are not going to impose a no-fly zone. They asked for a no-fly zone, we said no. They wanted us to and some Allies as well there has been some proposals that we should move with creating a humanitarian corridor. We're not doing that. There have also been discussions about NATO reinforcing a naval corridor to get food out. To not do that, it's not easy, because it has a cost for the Ukrainians. But we. . . But the reason why we don't move in with NATO troops in Ukraine is to prevent escalation. So we are always, since the beginning of this war, been very mindful about the need, the moral obligation, to support a country fighting for their freedom, for democracy, for their independence. But at the same time, preventing escalation by not being directly involved in the conflict".
People can read and decide for themselves as to whether or not Stoltenberg is throwing Ukraine to the wolves. The absolute WORST source in the world, I would argue, is a certified LilliPutin dick-licking troll.
You are total denial. Ukraine should not be allowed to join anything until they clean up there act. Produce Oil and you defeat Russia, very easy, but you guys do not want to do that.
Secondly, if Russia can not defeat Ukraine and a few Special Force Teams, they obviously can not fight there way out of a wet paper bag. They are not a threat, unlike are ridiculous Media claims and even worse the CIA. There military is terrible.
I do not care who wins, but somebody please win. When The war stops the killing stops. I have bad news for you, Russia is now winning, and the higher gas prices go the more they win. Again I have zero compassion for the Ukraine government. I do care about the incident lives being lost. You guys are playing right into Putin hand. Sorry, but that is what the Ukraine government does is lose, steal and lie. They were winning, but as usual they got greedy and are too stupid to realize it.It's looking very likely that Ukraine will be recommended for EU candidate status.
https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-urge-eu-candidate-status-for-ukraine/
Since your 100% anti-Ukraine beliefs have already been thoroughly outed, I'm sure that this development will cause you plenty of indigestion. I guess that's just too fucking bad for you, right?
If you're looking for someone to blame, you'll find him in the Kremlin. LilliPutin is solely responsible for pushing Ukraine toward the West, and solely responsible for pushing Sweden and Finland toward NATO. Oh yes, and also responsible for significant changes in other countries like Moldova, the Baltics, Poland, etc. My personal hope is that Ukraine's candidacy to the EU comes with a laundry list of conditions and standards that need to be met. I think that will be the case, with the result potentially being a win-win for both the EU and Ukraine, and a HUGE loss for Russia.
As far as producing more non-Russian oil, I'm all in favor of that (and anything else with the potential to deny revenue to Russia). But that doesn't offer an effective near-term solution to Russian murderous war-crimes aggression. Which is why the better answer is to kill more Orcs and drive them back to Mordor (ASAP), because Russians will keep killing until they've been utterly snuffed out or chased back into their holes.
While you say you don't care who wins, I highly doubt that since you exclusively advocate for anti-Ukraine solutions. In stark contrast, I absolutely care who wins, as Russia is evil to the core and has revealed that fact to the world since February 24th. I'm not ignoring Ukraine's problems, or absolving them of past sins, but no country deserves to be swallowed whole by the Orc horde.
There's a reward for the sadist in your example as they get to witness the distress of the animal or insect. Your typical online troll wants feedback. If no one is responding in any way there's none, plus they don't know if anyone is even reading their posts. They'll go someplace else where the fish are biting which isn't hard to do online. In any case your analogy is false, and by default, so is your conclusion. Wink.
https://fallacyinlogic.com/false-analogy-definition-and-examples/
P.S. Regarding humiliation, and based on standard definitions it's tough to argue that you are humiliating a person if they are experiencing no such feelings. From Webster's:
"to reduce (someone) to a lower position in one's own eyes or others' eyes: to make (someone) ashamed or embarrassed: Mortify".
Take DramaFree11 as an example. He's been here and on a thread in another forum about four months equating Ukraine and Russia in the matter of evil. He calls on the West to stop helping the former while doing the Chicken Little, claiming world economies will implode and endless lives will be destroyed if we continue the course. He was around two years saying the same about Covid BTW in the matter of mitigation efforts and with no fulfillment. But where's the new material? Where the humiliation? I just summed up his whole argument in less than one minute, two sentences. There's been no change. Rebuttals are ignored. It's just a couple of talking points one could gather halfway watching Tucker Carlson one night. No "proof" is offered beyond anecdotes and speculations. No links. So what does he get for his two to three minutes of typing each day? A three paragraph, well thought out essay from you in return. That's a good return on his investment, and all with the same two sentence argument, and for about four months. LOL But I'm sure not going in circles with someone like that. It comes down to how you want to spend your time I suppose.You're great at posting links to various logical fallacies, but you seem to have a blind spot when it comes to the holes in your own argument.
For example, you conclude my analogy is false because the sadist takes pleasure from witnessing the outcome of his own sadism, whereas the online troll only (emphasis mine) can take pleasure if their post is responded to (feedback).
The problem with that conclusion is that you have no objective evidence to back it up. It's purely your personal opinion, nothing more. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong but, without evidence, it's simply a window-dressed pseudo-argument in search of a factual basis. I've never claimed that the way I've decided to deal with trolls is based on anything more than my own personal experience and opinion, and the analogy I offered (for illustrative purposes) doesn't change that fact.
Also, your reliance on a strict construction of the word "humiliation," while clearly ignoring the full context of what I wrote, is disingenuous. Did I not specifically write that, since trolls lack self-awareness, my aim in humiliating them is to make them a laughingstock to others? One of the essential rules of debate is to accurately characterize the argument of the opponent, which you failed to do.
Frankly, this back and forth about the best way to deal with trolls is a quintessential exemplar of a waste of time. At least it is for me, since I've already definitively stated that I have no intention of changing. I'm fine with the fact that you have your own opinion, but apparently the reverse isn't true and you seem to feel a need to "convert" me (newsflash: ain't happening).
Since you're so concerned about the effective use of time, is it really worth your time to dig up "Captain Obvious" references to logic websites when you could simply say ad hominem (etc.) and not insult the reader's intelligence by acting as though they need your assistance to define the term? Does that not strike you as a bit pretentious, or condescending? You might find it a better use of your time to research alternatives to monosyllabic subject lines. Just a suggestion, take it or leave it as you please. In the same spirit, I'm exercising my prerogative to "leave" your suggestion (wink).
It's remarkable how those who delight in pointing the finger at Ukraine fall silent when it comes to Russia. The old expression, "strain at a gnat while swallowing a camel," comes to mind.
"1/ Old rations, faulty vehicles, missing radios, under-strength units: corruption has been blamed for hollowing out Russia's military and undermining its war in Ukraine. It's worth examining this problem and seeing how it's affected the Russian armed forces. 1st 🧵 in a series".
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1531716422220632067.html
"1/ What do jewelry, cash, antiques, watches, mansions and Jennifer Lopez have in common? They've all been sought after by corrupt Russian military officials. In this second 🧵 in a series, I'll look at high-level corruption among Russia's military elite".
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1536422857777025024.html
I found this to be an interesting article. It analyzes the challenges ahead to bringing peace to the Ukraine. While I might prefer a more resounding Ukrainian victory, I concur with the authors that "winning small" is the most likely and practical resolution to the war.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-06-06/what-if-ukraine-wins
Excerpt:
"But a full-scale Ukrainian military defeat of Russia, including the retaking of Crimea, verges on fantasy. It would be far too optimistic to base either Ukrainian or Western strategy on such an outcome. Pursuing it would also send the war into a new phase. Having poured billions of dollars into Crimea's development, a symbol of Russian renewal, Moscow would interpret a Ukrainian offensive in Crimea as an assault on Russian territory, something Moscow would try to prevent by all available means. The hypothesis that Russia's full-scale defeat would excise the cancer of imperialism from the Russian leadership and body politic rests on a clumsy analogy to Germany's unconditional surrender in World War II, and stems from a desire not just to end this war but to foreclose the possibility of Russia starting any future war in Europe. It is an intoxicating vision, but one unconnected to reality."
Russian propaganda proves to be some stupid shit:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61757667.amp
[QUOTE=Jojosun;.
Fine talk about reducing emissions, LOL "he is supposed to be committed to reducing emissions but when President Joe Biden produced a little natural gas of his own at the COP26 summit, it was audible enough to make the Duchess of Cornwall blush. ".
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10172959/Camilla-stopped-talking-hearing-President-break-wind-chat-Cop26-summit.html
The "Sleepy Joe" doze off https://news.sky.com/video/cop26-joe-biden-appears-to-fall-asleep-before-giving-a-speech-at-cop26-video-12457263.
Come 2024 ,he'll be Gone With The Wind. / QUOTE].
Biden's big gas crises is taking him to Saudi. Hope he doesn't do Another " long and loud and impossible to ignore" Fart, when he bends the Knee in front of MBS.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bidens-big-gas-crisis-bet-beg-saudi-arabia
PedroMorales
06-15-22, 15:10
Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.
Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.Death? Is that really fair? The Americans only stuck their captives in Abu Gharabi, Guantanamo and who's knows where rendition sites without trials or recourse for the rest of their lives.
PedroMorales
06-15-22, 17:38
Russian propaganda proves to be some stupid shit:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61757667.ampSpouting stupid BBC shit. If granny did not back track, your Nazi pals, egged on by the BBC, would put one in her ear.
Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.Nothing heroic about fighting in an Illegal and Cowardly invasion of a sovereign state bombarding its cities and killing innocent civilians. Putin and his field commanders should be held responsible.
Nor was that Massive invasion of Iraq which Farty Joe supported and helped to mislead public opinion about it. "More than 4,500 US soldiers, and nearly as many US military contractors, lost their lives; tens of thousands were wounded, with hundreds of thousands more suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Estimates of Iraqi deaths run as high as 1 Million". https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war.
BTW, 19 Ukrainian Soldiers were also killed in Iraq, Sent there by Kuchma.
https://www.army.mil/article/15056/ukrainians_complete_mission_in_iraq
Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.All you do is constantly regurgitate the propaganda emanating from LilliPutin's bunghole.
The fact that foreigners are flocking to Ukraine to fight against the Orc Hordes is a CREDIT to Ukraine. These are people who left their comfortable lives for a noble purpose.
In point of fact, there are volunteer fighters from at least 52 countries fighting against Putin's fascists:
https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3426983-volunteer-fighters-from-52-countries-join-international-legion.html
And, when it comes to Russia, they are so desperate for soldiers that they removed the upper age limit for service and are also recalling people who already retired from the military.
Here's one notable example where a 63 year old retired Orc general was shot down and killed.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10850289/Russia-loses-highest-ranking-pilot-Ukraine-former-Air-Force-Major-63-shot-down.html
I guess he should have stayed in his dacha. Or maybe figured out a way to escape the sinking Russian ship, like so many other rats have already done.
PedroMorales
06-16-22, 22:08
Here are the two American mercenaries. They have no protection under the Geneva Convention and will most likely be sentenced to death by firing squad which is a shame as that is a military send off. Keep their victims in your prayers.
I'm a little worried the uptick in Covid will damage my vacation plans. That is none of their concern as they don't catch Covid in hell.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/15/exclusive-first-two-us-fighters-captured-russian-forces-battle/
Nothing heroic about fighting in an Illegal and Cowardly invasion of a sovereign state bombarding its cities and killing innocent civilians. Putin and his field commanders should be held responsible.
Nor was that Massive invasion of Iraq which Farty Joe supported and helped to mislead public opinion about it. "More than 4,500 US soldiers, and nearly as many US military contractors, lost their lives; tens of thousands were wounded, with hundreds of thousands more suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Estimates of Iraqi deaths run as high as 1 Million". https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war.
BTW, 19 Ukrainian Soldiers were also killed in Iraq, Sent there by Kuchma.
https://www.army.mil/article/15056/ukrainians_complete_mission_in_iraqPutin&Biden got Blood on their hands, But of course Putin has the biggest share.
And another thing, who in Russia would be able to square up to Putin in public and give him a piece of his mind in a similar way this Brave American Veteran confronted Biden! Urlreplacement0}.
Here are the two American mercenaries. They have no protection under the Geneva Convention and will most likely be sentenced to death by firing squad which is a shame as that is a military send off. Keep their victims in your prayers.
I'm a little worried the uptick in Covid will damage my vacation plans. That is none of their concern as they don't catch Covid in hell.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/15/exclusive-first-two-us-fighters-captured-russian-forces-battle/https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/16/vladimir-putin-seen-gripping-table-so-hard-his-veins-start-to-bulge-16837200/
He's probably a heartbeat (literally) away from some kind of debilitating medical event. In fact, one report I saw said he needed the immediate attention of his doctors at the end of a recent video meeting. And that's the probable explanation for the sudden cancellation of his scheduled "Direct Line" (live Q&A) broadcast.
https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/10/putin-advised-not-to-make-long-appearances-after-sharp-sickness-16802687/
A lot of people have already died in this war, and unfortunately that's not close to ending. And it's an absolute fact that the blood of everyone killed is on Putin's hands, they are all victims of the evil megalomaniacal dictator. Which is why it would be the truest poetic justice if he becomes the highest profile casualty of the very war he started.
But there are two big questions about what happens when Putin croaks. 1) Will the elites manage a smooth transition or start stabbing each other in the back? 2) Will they put his corpse on display like Lenin, or hang him upside down like Mussolini?
I found this to be an interesting article. It analyzes the challenges ahead to bringing peace to the Ukraine. While I might prefer a more resounding Ukrainian victory, I concur with the authors that "winning small" is the most likely and practical resolution to the war.
https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-06-06/what-if-ukraine-wins
Excerpt:
"But a full-scale Ukrainian military defeat of Russia, including the retaking of Crimea, verges on fantasy. It would be far too optimistic to base either Ukrainian or Western strategy on such an outcome. Pursuing it would also send the war into a new phase. Having poured billions of dollars into Crimea's development, a symbol of Russian renewal, Moscow would interpret a Ukrainian offensive in Crimea as an assault on Russian territory, something Moscow would try to prevent by all available means.I have no problem with the article, except it would be nice to see authors include some kind of admission that there are possible outcomes they haven't thought of, or ones they've thought about but don't have a clue as to how things could turn out.
For example, what if Putin dies, or is incapacitated, or is deposed? From my reading of the article, the post-war scenarios assume that Putin's policies will continue along the same trajectory. But, if Russia suffers a humiliating defeat (as defined by Russia's own war-hawks), it's a coin-flip as to whether he stays in power. And even a peaceful transfer of power isn't a guarantee of continuity. If Russia's economy is in bad shape, the new leader could decide to blame everything on Putin.
And then there's the matter of some of their conclusions about battlefield outcomes, most notably regarding Crimea. I certainly don't have a crystal ball but I would certainly advise against making categorical statements. Right now, for example, Ukraine is mounting a counter-offensive in the South (Kherson and Nova Kakhovka areas). One possible result is that they could regain control over the primary source of water for all of Crimea. That may not be the same as retaking the entire peninsula, but it's nothing to sneeze at and would have a dramatic effect on the calculus of any subsequent negotiation.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1536750514222022657.html
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1536833540217876483.html
There are at least some military observers saying that one objective of the battle around Severodonetsk is to keep Russian forces from reinforcing the South. Maybe Ukraine will push to control the water source, or maybe they'll use it primarily to force Russia to defend on yet another front. I have no idea, but I'm closely watching developments in the Kherson area.
So my only real point is that war, and especially this one, is full of "unknown unknowns," which I wish more pundits and analysts would acknowledge when writing their articles.
Spouting stupid BBC shit. If granny did not back track, your Nazi pals, egged on by the BBC, would put one in her ear.But she did backtrack and obviously didn't know what she was doing hahaha! The Ruskies are so desperate to look good in this that they would take advantage of an old babushka. And sounds like another weakly disguised "fake news" allegation from you.
PedroMorales
06-17-22, 07:30
Nor was that Massive invasion of Iraq which Farty Joe supported and helped to mislead public opinion about it. "More than 4,500 US soldiers, and nearly as many US military contractors, lost their lives; tens of thousands were wounded, with hundreds of thousands more suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Estimates of Iraqi deaths run as high as 1 Million". https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war.
BTW, 19 Ukrainian Soldiers were also killed in Iraq, Sent there by Kuchma.
https://www.army.mil/article/15056/ukrainians_complete_mission_in_iraqNo mention of all the Iraqis murdered, tortured and raped by the Americans, who said murdering 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it. To be an American today is like being a German Nazi in 1944.
As I've posted before, it's better to get information from as close to an original source as you can. This site, while it's certainly pro-Ukraine, doesn't feature analysis or commentary. Rather it simply translates interesting items from Russian or Ukrainian into English. As with all sources, you need to use your own judgment and discernment about the veracity and value of any individual item.
https://wartranslated.com
Here are two that recently got my attention:
https://wartranslated.com/igor-girking-predicts-a-battle-for-the-initiative-10-june-2022/
Girkin's (see below) assessment of the battle for Southern Ukraine.
https://wartranslated.com/lpr-blogger-says-ukrainian-16-june-attack-on-krasnyi-luch-stockpiles-will-halt-russian-offensive/
An LPR blogger's assessment of the consequences of a recent Ukrainian strike on a Russian supply depot.
As you browse the site, you'll see quite a few entries that translate comments by Igor Girkin. He's an FSB Colonel (reserves, but still connected) who often gives scathing critiques of Russian military leadership and performance. He's pro-Russia, but he advocates for doing even more, such as full mobilization. So it's interesting to read his critiques and assessments. The site's author is of the opinion that Girkin is allowed to speak out, as long as he doesn't directly criticize Putin, as a way of giving voice to extreme war-hawk views. You can read and make up your own mind.
Putin&Biden got Blood on their hands, But of course Putin has the biggest share.
And another thing, who in Russia would be able to square up to Putin in public and give him a piece of his mind in a similar way this Brave American Veteran confronted Biden! Urlreplacement0}.Here's the Link. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ojkCKPtcJ54.
I have no problem with the article, except it would be nice to see authors include some kind of admission that there are possible outcomes they haven't thought of, or ones they've thought about but don't have a clue as to how things could turn out.
For example, what if Putin dies, or is incapacitated, or is deposed? From my reading of the article, the post-war scenarios assume that Putin's policies will continue along the same trajectory. But, if Russia suffers a humiliating defeat (as defined by Russia's own war-hawks), it's a coin-flip as to whether he stays in power. And even a peaceful transfer of power isn't a guarantee of continuity. If Russia's economy is in bad shape, the new leader could decide to blame everything on Putin.
......................................
So my only real point is that war, and especially this one, is full of "unknown unknowns," which I wish more pundits and analysts would acknowledge when writing their articles.I didn't really take it as that. I think the authors were trying to raise the real possibility that the war might not resolve a lot. I also have thought about how wars achieve complete resolution (many don't) and thought the authors' statement below was insightful.
"The hypothesis that Russia's full-scale defeat would excise the cancer of imperialism from the Russian leadership and body politic rests on a clumsy analogy to Germany's unconditional surrender in World War II, and stems from a desire not just to end this war but to foreclose the possibility of Russia starting any future war in Europe. It is an intoxicating vision, but one unconnected to reality."
I'm sure the authors considered Putin dying, incapacitated or being deposed. It would seem to me to be a risky proposition to continue fighting and forgoing negotiations on this hope alone. Putin's departure by one means or another could possibly bring an ideal conclusion of the war, but it is also predicated on other things happening after his removal.
As far as "Russia suffers a humiliating defeat", I don't see that happening on the battlefield. Without NATO support for the Ukraine attacking Russian targets, I think a grinding stalemate inside the Ukraine is far more likely. So in my opinion, the humiliating Russian defeat only comes about with regime change and capitulation. This gets back to my point do you continue fighting and forgoing negotiations on the premise that Putin is close to being removed one way or another.
In the likely responses to follow, I would not impose too much argumentative meaning to my raising the issue of negotiations. One in disagreement can chastise the idea of negotiations, but there are many matters that need to be resolved to end the conflict. Those who think that the Ukrainians will drive the Russians out of the Ukraine indefinitely including Crimea and possibly incite a regime change in Russia clearly would find much to disagree with my post.
No mention of all the Iraqis murdered, tortured and raped by the Americans, who said murdering 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it. To be an American today is like being a German Nazi in 1944.To be one today is more like being an Isreali in 2022.
PedroMorales
06-17-22, 22:22
To be one today is more like being an Isreali in 2022.That is really low. Israelis, most of whom have Ukrainian roots, words cannot describe. I was watching a video of the captured US bio weapons guy (the whitey caught alongside the Viet). Seemed in good spirits. Hope he rats out Hunter Biden.
Just watching those fkers now around the Damascus gate. Though some Americans may have redeeming features (Lot and salt), they haven one. Day after day.
PedroMorales
06-18-22, 10:39
And the Ukrainian Parliament, who will take over? Who will do the snapchat videos when this dead man walking gets his desserts? If Russia was the USA, Zelensky would have been fried months ago. Is Russia just keeping this fool on ice? Would it help if the Nazis just took front stage in Kiev?
PedroMorales
06-18-22, 12:51
Of the USMC (America's equivalent of the Waffen SS) becomes the third American mercenary to be captured by Russian peace keepers in Ukraine. Capt. Kurpasi, from Wilmington, North Carolina, should know that the Geneva Convention does not apply to mercenaries. He is fair game.
No more killing Iraqi kids or Ukrainian Russian speakers for him https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/16/politics/state-department-american-missing-ukraine/index.html.
I didn't really take it as that. I think the authors were trying to raise the real possibility that the war might not resolve a lot. I also have thought about how wars achieve complete resolution (many don't) and thought the authors' statement below was insightful.
"The hypothesis that Russia's full-scale defeat would excise the cancer of imperialism from the Russian leadership and body politic rests on a clumsy analogy to Germany's unconditional surrender in World War II, and stems from a desire not just to end this war but to foreclose the possibility of Russia starting any future war in Europe. It is an intoxicating vision, but one unconnected to reality."
I'm sure the authors considered Putin dying, incapacitated or being deposed. It would seem to me to be a risky proposition to continue fighting and forgoing negotiations on this hope alone. Putin's departure by one means or another could possibly bring an ideal conclusion of the war, but it is also predicated on other things happening after his removal.
As far as "Russia suffers a humiliating defeat", I don't see that happening on the battlefield. Without NATO support for the Ukraine attacking Russian targets, I think a grinding stalemate inside the Ukraine is far more likely. So in my opinion, the humiliating Russian defeat only comes about with regime change and capitulation. This gets back to my point do you continue fighting and forgoing negotiations on the premise that Putin is close to being removed one way or another.
In the likely responses to follow, I would not impose too much argumentative meaning to my raising the issue of negotiations. One in disagreement can chastise the idea of negotiations, but there are many matters that need to be resolved to end the conflict. Those who think that the Ukrainians will drive the Russians out of the Ukraine indefinitely including Crimea and possibly incite a regime change in Russia clearly would find much to disagree with my post.Too many articles verge on the brink of hubris, in that they cherry-pick the variables they claim are significant, while side-stepping or ignoring those that are inconvenient or non-supportive of their thesis.
I'm much more receptive to authors who focus on what's actually happening than I am to those who come up with some kind of construct about how, in their opinion, things could play out. When I read the latter kind of article, I usually spot some assumption they're making which, if things happen differently, substantially undercuts their thesis. And, at that point, I lose interest because they continue writing in a confident voice when they should (IMO) be writing with more humility and admitting how much they don't know, and which assumptions might not hold.
At this point, I'm pretty much done with so-called experts (see my post in the Kyiv main thread) because so many have been so profoundly wrong (and so few admit that fact). What I look for are accurate observations about what's happening right now, as I think such observations hold more promise for extrapolating towards the future. So, when I read an article that doesn't seem to fully embrace or understand what's happening on the battlefield at this very moment, I'm frankly not that interested. I'm happy to trade a pound of "experts" for an ounce of accurate observers.
Gerasimov's trip to the front lines was a disaster, Shoigu (who isn't a real General) is now a hollow figurehead, and the newest revelation is that Dvornikov is an incompetent drunk!
https://odessa-journal.com/bellingcat-investigator-why-putin-doesnt-trust-general-dvornikov/
No wonder the Orc-Generals are dropping like fetid flies. The vaunted Russian military machine turns out to be held together with chewing gum and baling wire. Except that some corrupt General sold the wire, replaced it with twine, and then swapped the chewing gum for gooey piles of shit! No wonder the wheels are falling off. Way to go, Vlad!
That is really low. Israelis, most of whom have Ukrainian roots, words cannot describe. I
Your bashing seems to be all over the place!!
The man from Odessa, Jabotinsky with his brand of Zionism, based on claiming all of the land including Jordan, is not really majority opinion in Israel. More support for it for reasons of their own, is to be found among White American Evangelicals.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_land_without_a_people_for_a_people_without_a_land#text=%22%20 A%20 land%20 without%20 a%20 people%20 for%20 a,historicity%20 and%20 significance%20 are%20 a%20 matter%20 of%20 contention.
Jewish Ukrainians who fled Putin's war in their thousands found homes in Germany. "Many Jewish Ukrainian refugees – no one know how many, but it is certainly thousands. Are choosing to come to Germany. Why? They are looking for quiet and Israel is seen as being dangerous. In addition, Germany has committed significant resources to help: https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-706446.
Too many articles verge on the brink of hubris, in that they cherry-pick the variables they claim are significant, while side-stepping or ignoring those that are inconvenient or non-supportive of their thesis.
I'm much more receptive to authors who focus on what's actually happening than I am to those who come up with some kind of construct about how, in their opinion, things could play out. When I read the latter kind of article, I usually spot some assumption they're making which, if things happen differently, substantially undercuts their thesis. And, at that point, I lose interest because they continue writing in a confident voice when they should (IMO) be writing with more humility and admitting how much they don't know, and which assumptions might not hold.
At this point, I'm pretty much done with so-called experts (see my post in the Kyiv main thread) because so many have been so profoundly wrong (and so few admit that fact). What I look for are accurate observations about what's happening right now, as I think such observations hold more promise for extrapolating towards the future. So, when I read an article that doesn't seem to fully embrace or understand what's happening on the battlefield at this very moment, I'm frankly not that interested. I'm happy to trade a pound of "experts" for an ounce of accurate observers.Nothing personal, but I think you are generally too optimistic that the war's outcome will provide a great victory for the Ukraine. I think there is enough uncertainty in this war and any war for that matter to make all predictions specious.
I think many have painted a picture the war is an existential battle for the Ukraine that can be resolved with great satisfaction and achievement. It has also been said Putin himself could very well be in an existential fight over the Ukraine. That sounds like the recipe for a long, grinding war.
What's the best outcome Ukraine "wins small" and the war ends this year or they fight a five year conflict to achieve something possibly more or possibly not? It's not an easy question to answer in my opinion.
Having said that, yes it would be great if Putin felt his world closing in, walks into his office, shuts the door and ingests a cyanide pill.
Your bashing seems to be all over the place!!PM is kitchen-sinking (as in everything but the kitchen sink). Impassioned and often illogical partisans bombard forums with any argument they can muster whether it remotely fits the circumstances or not. Sometimes they reveal their motives. Sometimes they do not. They have not really processed the concept of more is not necessarily better. In many instances, their position is untenable. The only thing left is to throw everything and anything out there to defend their point of view.
And the Ukrainian Parliament, who will take over? Who will do the snapchat videos when this dead man walking gets his desserts? If Russia was the USA, Zelensky would have been fried months ago. Is Russia just keeping this fool on ice? Would it help if the Nazis just took front stage in Kiev?It's my guess that, if you talk to many Russians off the record, you'd likely get an earful of how humiliating it is that the "powerful Russian military" has been stymied, and forced back from Kyiv. And right along with that is the fact that Zelensky is STILL in power and going strong. What happened to the "denazification" goal? It's utterly failed and Putin can't credibly claim otherwise as long as Kyiv's govt continues.
To add insult to injury, Zelensky is welcoming significant heads of state to Kyiv (France, Germany, Italy, UK, Poland, Romania, etc.) while the only people who visit Russia are Putin-puppets like Lukashenko, or fellow terrorists-in-arms Taliban mullahs.
And even the President of Kazakhstan, with Putin present, called out Russian propaganda and spit directly in the eye of the Kremlin. I'll make a separate post about that, but Putin must be seething at the blatant disrespect shown at his own conference.
But here's the real question: Who takes over when Putin's uncontrollable tremors, and other serious health conditions, can no longer be covered for? With the Russian military being stretched thin, will Lukashenko make a play? Isn't it interesting that Belarus has avoided putting their military at risk in Ukraine? Even a little bit of research will show that Lukashenko is a highly capable schemer, and that his clown act is only for show.
So, when Putin (naturally or otherwise) kicks the bucket, things could get very interesting.
Of the USMC (America's equivalent of the Waffen SS) becomes the third American mercenary to be captured by Russian peace keepers in Ukraine. Capt. Kurpasi, from Wilmington, North Carolina, should know that the Geneva Convention does not apply to mercenaries. He is fair game.
No more killing Iraqi kids or Ukrainian Russian speakers for him https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/16/politics/state-department-american-missing-ukraine/index.html.https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/14/russians-fighting-for-ukraine
"I made compromises with myself for a long time. But on the 24 February (the day Russia launched its invasion), any talk of compromise became impossible," he said. "I could not be part of this crime".
"Artyom (not his real name), another member of the unit, said he joined "because it was the only chance to get rid of this regime" and had been engaged in opposition politics in Russia before leaving the country in 2020. He said he moved to Ukraine shortly before the war, sensing an imminent Russian attack. "I love my motherland," he said. "I wish it didn't have to come to this, but we have to end this system. I hope I can return home after the war".
These are Russians with a soul and conscience, noble Russians resisting the evil dictator. Each orc they kill helps to prevent another Bucha, another Irpin, another Mariupol massacre, another kidnapped child being sent off to Russia.
May their aim be true and their weapons swift to mete out justice to the criminal invaders.
Nothing personal, but I think you are generally too optimistic that the war's outcome will provide a great victory for the Ukraine. I think there is enough uncertainty in this war and any war for that matter to make all predictions specious.
I think many have painted a picture the war is an existential battle for the Ukraine that can be resolved with great satisfaction and achievement. It has also been said Putin himself could very well be in an existential fight over the Ukraine. That sounds like the recipe for a long, grinding war.
What's the best outcome Ukraine "wins small" and the war ends this year or they fight a five year conflict to achieve something possibly more or possibly not? It's not an easy question to answer in my opinion.
Having said that, yes it would be great if Putin felt his world closing in, walks into his office, shuts the door and ingests a cyanide pill.While I'm absolutely pro-Ukraine in sentiment, I've done my best to focus on what's actually happening, not on what "should" happen or even what I want to happen. If you can indicate the post, or posts, of mine in which I cross the line into prediction territory, please share.
It seems to me that I'm the loudest voice in this forum shouting that predictions are a fool's errand, as this war is unique in many aspects and there are too many variables, known and unknown. In fact, that's the very criticism I level against your article, is it not?
My personal feelings aside, any optimism I've expressed is generally based on optimistic developments, such as arms commitments and other support measures for Ukraine, or the recent granting of EU candidate status. Any such developments that help Ukraine sustain their war effort are positive things, and I'm not shy about pointing them out.
If, however, support for Ukraine started to fade, or other developments with long-term negative implications occurred, I would discuss those honestly. To this point I would assert that the weight of the evidence leans in a positive direction for Ukraine. And, as I've also posted numerous times, I do my best to focus on the tides, rather than waves or ripples.
That's not to say I have any clue as to how things will turn out. If I discuss the possibility of a humiliating Russia defeat, I do so as only one of several scenarios. The reason that particular scenario is often discussed is primarily because Putin foolishly set the bar too high. If he had gone directly for the limited goal of Luhansk and Donetsk, that would have been more reasonably achievable. But, by going for Kyiv itself, and "denazifying" all of Ukraine, he's made a problem for himself (with his own people) if he can't deliver. That's why I've posited that there are no real-world winnable scenarios for Russia, because:
1. If Russia conquers all of Ukraine, it will be faced with the prospect of trying to subdue and hold a country that hates it deeply. Europe, the US, and most of rest of the world would likely continue the same, or increased, sanctions regime, which is a recipe for continued isolation and tension.
2. If Russia conquers some of Ukraine (Luhansk, Donetsk, Odessa, etc.), then it becomes a kind of subset of Scenario #1, with the exception that the part of Ukraine not conquered would be actively and strenuously resisting Russia.
3. Russia conquers no significant new territory in Ukraine. So, whether the boundaries are exactly the same as before Feb 24th, or substantially so, it's clear to the non-propagandized world that the invasion has failed. And, within Russia, the potential for dissatisfaction with Putin would rise significantly. This, for all intents and purposes would be the "humiliating defeat" scenario.
4. A continuation of the current war-of-attrition, with give and take on both sides. If that were to happen, neither side could claim victory and it would become (even more so than now) a battle of will and resources.
But please note that discussing these scenarios, and examining factors that might make them more (or less) likely, isn't the same as predicting which one will actually happen. What I care most about are the facts on the ground. And, depending on those facts, it may be possible to extrapolate trends that point in one direction or another. As with all things, however, tomorrow's set of facts can change. Which is why I value accurate and knowledgeable observers more than I do analysts and pundits.
P.S. If you have an outcome that isn't one of the four listed above, or a subset of them, I'd love to hear it.
The author of this thread makes a persuasive (IMO) case that, while Severodonetsk (Donbas) is getting most of the attention, the battle for the Kherson region in the South is more strategically important. It's a short and easy read, with some informative maps.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1538237864202452995.html
Elvis 2008
06-19-22, 04:02
https://medium.com/@grantpiperwriting/was-putin-right-all-along-b58872a19bef
PedroMorales
06-19-22, 06:54
quack quack.The first post is a question on S Korea, the 2nd is some useless be s on England and the rest are praising Nazis who are getting their asses handed to them in Ukraine.
Nothing personal, but I think you are generally too optimistic that the war's outcome will provide a great victory for the Ukraine. I think there is enough uncertainty in this war and any war for that matter to make all predictions specious.
I think many have painted a picture the war is an existential battle for the Ukraine that can be resolved with great satisfaction and achievement. It has also been said Putin himself could very well be in an existential fight over the Ukraine. That sounds like the recipe for a long, grinding war.
What's the best outcome Ukraine "wins small" and the war ends this year or they fight a five year conflict to achieve something possibly more or possibly not? It's not an easy question to answer in my opinion.
Having said that, yes it would be great if Putin felt his world closing in, walks into his office, shuts the door and ingests a cyanide pill.I agree that it's going to be "a long, grinding war" but you seem to presume that Ukraine somehow has a power to stop it. It doesn't.
Reiner Otto
06-19-22, 08:52
It's a short and easy read, with some informative maps.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1538237864202452995.htmlThe author dropped one very important issue in the article: The huge bridges in Kherson crossing the Dnjepr. Having lived in this area myself for a few years, I am still wondering, why the bridges have not been blown up by the UA-army, to block further advances of the Russian in the direction of Odessa, via Nikolaev. Some secret deal with the Russians: We do not blow the bridges in Kherson, you do not blow the bridges in Kiev?
PedroMorales
06-19-22, 11:50
Russian warships have destroyed a Ukrainian command center with Kalibr cruise missiles, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Sunday.
"More than 50 generals and officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces were killed," the statement said. According to the ministry, the strike took place near the village of Shirokaya Dacha in Dnepropetrovsk Region, Ukraine. The missiles hit the compound where commanders of several Ukrainian units had gathered for a meeting, the ministry said.
https://medium.com/@grantpiperwriting/was-putin-right-all-along-b58872a19befRussians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.
https://medium.com/@grantpiperwriting/was-putin-right-all-along-b58872a19befI don't about others but I generally ignore links that don't at least come with a brief explanation of what it leads to, or some kind of indication that it's worth checking out.
I live (and love) to suck LilliPutin's raw dick. And no, I'm not worried about monkeypox.Unlike some, I don't need a fuckboard to find foreign pussy. I've lived abroad for enough years that I can manage just fine. My two South Korea posts concerned recommended hotels. And my only other post was to suggest a website to a member who posted a question.
How hilarious it is that I've SO thoroughly kicked your ass, and repeatedly wiped the floor with it, that you're pissing yourself in a pathetic attempt to find something with which to attack me. Nothing better illustrates what a low-class scumbucket (or is that cumbucket?) you are.
Oh, and about the remaining 1% of your posts, they were deleted by the forum admins for being pointless, argumentative, wastes of bandwidth.
P.S. On the US forums I have around 1,700 posts. My reasons for posting about Kyiv and Ukraine are self-evident to anyone who doesn't have his head up his ass.
The author dropped one very important issue in the article: The huge bridges in Kherson crossing the Dnjepr. Having lived in this area myself for a few years, I am still wondering, why the bridges have not been blown up by the UA-army, to block further advances of the Russian in the direction of Odessa, via Nikolaev. Some secret deal with the Russians: We do not blow the bridges in Kherson, you do not blow the bridges in Kiev?Obviously you've lived there so you have local knowledge of the bridges. But isn't one river crossing over the Kakhovka Dam? That one, I'd guess, would not be targeted for destruction. As for the others, it might be as simple as Ukraine's military deciding that there's more strategic value leaving them intact. That's especially true if they (UAF) believe they can retake territory in and around Kherson. If Russia is pushed back I wouldn't be surprised if they blew up some bridges to cover their retreat.
As far as the bridges around Kyiv are concerned, Russia hasn't achieved air dominance or even air superiority during this war, and they're reportedly running low on precision-guided munitions. Ukraine has shot down quite a few missiles, although obviously not all. But my point is that it's unclear to what extent Russia can project meaningful force in the area of Kyiv.
Also, IIRC, the troops in the Kherson area aren't regular Russian army, but made up of forces from the separatist areas. That means they're less well-equipped and probably better suited to defend positions rather than to advance and take territory. If you remember, it wasn't long ago that there were concerns about an amphibious landing and coordinated attack on Odessa. That hasn't materialized and Russian efforts in the South have essentially stalled. Now that Ukraine's forces appear to be counterattacking, the next few weeks could mark a significant phase in the war.
I'm a Russian schmegegge-troll and I gladly swallow Russian Defense Ministry propaganda and spit it back out in this forum. If Russia says it, who cares if it's true?Meanwhile, the REAL Nazis, the ones waging genocide on behalf of Russia, are being identified and tracked.
https://russian-torturers.com/en
The trials of these war criminals can't come soon enough.
DramaFree11
06-19-22, 21:26
https://medium.com/@grantpiperwriting/was-putin-right-all-along-b58872a19befGreat article. Maybe Putin is not as dumb as everyone thought. Time is on Russia side and with high gas prices and inflation way up, Russia is definitely starting to win. If gas goes up much more and Ukraine is unwilling to negotiate, support will dry up fast for Ukraine.
Russians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.Notice that I specifically didn't say that Ukraine is winning. That's because, unlike you and your schmegegge-clone, I actually follow what's happening on the battlefield. And, when it comes to facts vs opinion, facts will win every time.
Russia hasn't lost but neither have they won. And, when you're fighting for survival, it's a win for Ukraine each day they keep the invaders at bay.
https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-leaving-russia-millionaires-invasion-ukraine-war-2022-6
Wow! If everything is going great in Russia, why are so many affluent individuals intent on leaving? Ukraine has had its territory invaded, and its cities bombed, so it's understandable that people will want to avoid being in a war zone. But Russia? It hasn't been invaded and these millionaires, most of whom probably live in Moscow or St. Petersburg, are in no danger.
Again, that brings up the fascinating question about why so many are planning on leaving, are currently in the process of leaving, or have already left. Watching what people do, rather than listening to what they say, is useful in evaluating what's really going on.
A millionaire in Russia didn't get that way without being savvy, having connections, and knowing how to navigate and game the system. And, as long as they stay on good terms with Putin's power brokers, their wealth should insulate them from most inconveniences and hardships. Why would someone in that elite tranche of society decide to bail? One reason is arguably that they view their future prospects OUTSIDE of Russia as better than inside. Their money allows them to have many choices, and they've chosen to leave. Rats deserting a sinking ship, IMO, as I've posted several times before.
Elvis 2008
06-19-22, 23:50
Russians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.Yeah, the concept that Putin was right all along (which is what the article was about) looks more and more clear. I do not think the Western Press has expressed the Russian POV very well, and I am not even sure this article got into it. All you hear in the Western Press is Putin is a mad man and they highlight whenever a Russian mentions being anti-war.
My understanding is Putin felt surrounded, and that was what the Atlantic mentioned victory in Ukraine would be, a surrounded Russia. I was told that Russia had only 2 of the 9 traditional choke points against an invasion and now are in control of 5 of the 9. In addition ethnic Russians were being tortured and killed in Donbas and water was being cut off to Crimea. Add in Ukraine being in the EU and Nato, the coup of 2014, and Russiagate where the Dems demonized Putin unfairly and Ukrainegate which showed the Dems had a stranglehold in Ukraine, and far from Putin being a mad man, I can see why he felt the need for a pre-emptive strike. He is a bully but I do not see him as irrational.
Putin is a guy who took over for Yeltsin who was a drunk and ruled at a time Russians were starving. Say you what you want about him ethically, but he gets the trains to run on time almost as well as any Russian leader can. Yes, it is not a Democracy, but Russians have historically preferred a strong armed leader versus an elected one. This again is something most Westerners do not get.
The hysteria has died down. No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. The return on the $40 billion the USA has sent to Ukraine may as well have been lit on fire for all the good it will do, and our nation is suffering with higher oil and gas prices and higher food prices.
Here are two pieces which show the diametrically opposed positions: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/heat-scorched-odessa-texas-has-been-without-water-all-week-due-ageing-infrastructure.
As residents are hopeful that the crisis finally resolves Saturday, it's worth noting the irony in billions of taxpayer dollars currently being sent to places like Odessa, Ukraine. Even as Americans in places like Odessa, Texas can't even get drinkable water due to "ageing infrastructure".
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-must-do-more-ukraine-even-if-costs-food-fuel-are-high-western-populations-nato
Top officials in the West warning their populations against "Ukraine fatigue", saying that 'sacrifices' must be made for the long-term despite the 'high costs' in blood and treasure of continuing to ramp up support for Ukraine. This time it's NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg making unusually blunt statements, addressing the common masses.
"We must prepare for the fact that it could take years. We must not let up in supporting Ukraine," he began by saying in an interview published Sunday by Germany's Bild am Sonntag newspaper. He stressed this should be the case "even if the costs are high, not only for military support, also because of rising energy and food prices. ".
Why do we have to help Ukraine? The whole notion that Russia was going to March onto the English Channel made no sense to me. So the French, UK, and USA are not going to nuke Russia if that happens? Since when?
The question I have for this NATO General is we know the defense industry gets a return on investing in war but do we the American people get such a return? That answer is not maybe but probably not and in that case, we should not keep committing. If a NATO country is invaded, that is another story. If you look at this economically, Putin was right. The benefit of defending Ukraine was not worth the cost.
Russians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.Throughout their turbulent history, Russians have taken as much shit as the next guy. They've lost enough battles and wars. Portraying Russia as a perennial winner is ridiculous and ludicrous, and Russian people are well familiar with defeat and humiliation, which is what they are going to experience this time around, as well.
The first post is a question on S Korea, the 2nd is some useless be s on England and the rest are praising Nazis who are getting their asses handed to them in Ukraine.Basically delusional jibber jabber.
Throughout their turbulent history, Russians have taken as much shit as the next guy. They've lost enough battles and wars. Portraying Russia as a perennial winner is ridiculous and ludicrous, and Russian people are well familiar with defeat and humiliation, which is what they are going to experience this time around.The Russian people have taken plenty of shit over their entire history, including probably most of it from their own leaders!
Great article. Maybe Russia is definitely starting to win.
If gas goes up much more and Ukraine is unwilling to negotiate, support will dry up fast for Ukraine.I'm sure regulars in this forum are familiar with your consistent anti-Ukraine, pro-Russia, posting history. But, since you're too cowardly to be honest about it, and continually try to hide it, I'm more than happy to point it out.
Your argument that time is on Russia's side is based solely on your cherry-picked view of the situation, in which you see everything leaning toward Russia and leaning against Ukraine. There are plenty of arguments to be made from the pro-Ukraine point of view. But they're wasted on you since you've already made up your mind.
Again, anyone who has any question about where you stand needs only to view the posts you've made since Feb 24th, the date of the Russian invasion.
BTW, please call or email the head of the Russian Central Bank, and also the CEO of Sberbank (Russia's largest bank) and educate them about how time is on Russia's side. After all, you have everything figured out, right?
https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-politics-st-petersburg-economy-fa80aa4723bc8ec4e12a5ce559bf0055
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/17/russian-economy-faces-10-years-of-recession-without-reforms-sberbank-ceo-a78031
If these pro-Russia officials are expressing such negative assessments in public, I wonder what they're saying in private?
Yeah, the concept that Putin was right all along (which is what the article was about) looks more and more clear. I do not think the Western Press has expressed the Russian POV very well, and I am not even sure this article got into it. All you hear in the Western Press is Putin is a mad man and they highlight whenever a Russian mentions being anti-war.
My understanding is Putin felt surrounded, and that was what the Atlantic mentioned victory in Ukraine would be, a surrounded Russia. I was told that Russia had only 2 of the 9 traditional choke points against an invasion and now are in control of 5 of the 9. In addition ethnic Russians were being tortured and killed in Donbas and water was being cut off to Crimea. Add in Ukraine being in the EU and Nato, the coup of 2014, and Russiagate where the Dems demonized Putin unfairly and Ukrainegate which showed the Dems had a stranglehold in Ukraine, and far from Putin being a mad man, I can see why he felt the need for a pre-emptive strike. He is a bully but I do not see him as irrational.
Putin is a guy who took over for Yeltsin who was a drunk and ruled at a time Russians were starving. Say you what you want about him ethically, but he gets the trains to run on time almost as well as any Russian leader can. Yes, it is not a Democracy, but Russians have historically preferred a strong armed leader versus an elected one. This again is something most Westerners do not get.
The hysteria has died down. No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. The return on the $40 billion the USA has sent to Ukraine may as well have been lit on fire for all the good it will do, and our nation is suffering with higher oil and gas prices and higher food prices.
Here are two pieces which show the diametrically opposed positions: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/heat-scorched-odessa-texas-has-been-without-water-all-week-due-ageing-infrastructure.
As residents are hopeful that the crisis finally resolves Saturday, it's worth noting the irony in billions of taxpayer dollars currently being sent to places like Odessa, Ukraine. Even as Americans in places like Odessa, Texas can't even get drinkable water due to "ageing infrastructure"..His health has visibly deteriorated even since the beginning of his invasion. That's not just my opinion as plenty of doctors have posted their observations. So, IMO, any discussion of "Putin this," or "Putin that," should honestly address the question of what happens after Putin.
Will there be a backstabbing succession bloodbath among the elite, or will Putin orchestrate a smooth transition? And, depending who the new leader is, what data is there to support the idea that they'll simply continue all of Putin's policies? Did Stalin merely continue Leninism? Did Krushchev simply parrot Stalinism? Or did they chart their own path? And what about the age-old tendency of any new leadership to blame their predecessors for society's problems? Why wouldn't a new leader simply blame Putin? That would be extremely easy to do, especially if Putin was dead.
As far as support for Ukraine is concerned, isn't it interesting that, the closer a country is to Russia, the stronger their support is likely to be. I'm more inclined to look at what Poland and the Baltics are saying, as they know Putin better than anyone. And all of them believe that Putin has no intention of stopping with only Ukraine. And that view is supported by Putin's own words, such as his recent speech in which he talks about reclaiming "historic Russian lands" in the manner of Peter the Great. One doesn't need to read pundits and analysts to figure out Putin's thoughts and ambitions. He speaks them quite plainly.
Yeah, the concept that Putin was right all along (which is what the article was about) looks more and more clear. I do not think the Western Press has expressed the Russian POV very well, and I am not even sure this article got into it. All you hear in the Western Press is Putin is a mad man and they highlight whenever a Russian mentions being anti-war.
My understanding is Putin felt surroundedTop of the bullshit to you, too!
Putin felt threatened. Aha. Right. Please tell me more.
Putin has hated Ukraine for at least 30 years. He's been incensed that Ukraine that he'd never thought of as more than yet another Russian province, decided to kick out his errand boy Yanukovich and choose Europe over his wonderful Russian World.
But you know what, Elvis, let's say you're right. You ain't, but what the hell, I feel generous.
Let's say he did "feel" surrounded.
Now why should normal people care how psychopaths feel?
How did Hitler feel? How did Pol Pot feel? How did Saddam feel? How did Gaddafi feel? Who the fuck cares how they felt?
No one threatened Russia. Not a single country or an individual. No one.
Whatever that power-drunk maniac might or might not have felt didn't have any roots in reality. When he tried to bend the reality to his will (presuming that your idiotic theory is true, which it isn't), reality hit him back right in his botoxed mug.
There is no way out for him. Unfortunately, he'll murder tens of thousands more until he meets his end.
Nevertheless, the day will come no matter how many pedros, golphinhos, elvises and other despicable Russian shills keep doing his bidding.
Elvis 2008
06-20-22, 02:47
Let's say he did "feel" surrounded.
Now why should normal people care how psychopaths feel?This is a typical Dumb dem POV. You do not care the Russian people who were starving before he came to power or that he can in one second decide to end the war. I love how stupid you Dems are. Putin is a madman, a psychopath, and we should not care how he feels?
You dumb Dems are all lined up combatting each other like you did with Trump over who can give out the best insults. Nothing is off the table.
Why should we care how he feels? Well, another reason is because he can wipe us out with one push of a button, you effing moron.
Nevertheless, the day will come no matter how many pedros, golphinhos, elvises and other despicable Russian shills keep doing his bidding.Understanding someone's POV is not doing their bidding, you fool. It is the first step you take to get to peace.
And seeing how you want war so much, have you volunteered to enlist? Or are you just willing to fight the Russians until the last dead Ukrainian?
How dare you bring up dead bodies while you are cheering on war.
Russians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.Russians take a lot of shit you twerp as they have no other choice. They took a thorough ass whooping in the Russo-Japanese War. They took an additional ass whooping from the Bolcheviks and backed out of WW I. They were at the standing eight count from the Nazis until the West rescued them through re-supplies. They lost the Cold War, their women sucking Western cock to this day to survive, and now have an economy about the size of Texas. To add insult to injury, they've been forced to tuck tail and tun from Kyiv and Kharkiv, and can barely hold their own against a much smaller neighboring country. They are seemingly all white though excepting the Asian provinces, and anti-Jew, and that's why they get a sympathetic though meaningless ear from you here in ISG. Yawns. Bigots absent intellectual pursuits are a dime a dozen.
Whatever that power-drunk maniac might or might not have felt didn't have any roots in reality. .All these "feelings" were mere excuses on par with the "feelings" Hitler used for his neighboring land grabs. Little Vlad already stated that he has no problem with Finland joining NATO, a country with a 700 mile shared border. The issue with the Ukraine is his false historical narrative and claim that they have no right to exist. Then after that we get to the real reason, that he wants their farmlands and ports, and ultimately a restoration of the old Soviet empire if he can manage to pull it off. With the American far right in his corner, and in power in the US, he'd have a real shot at pulling it off.
Reiner Otto
06-20-22, 09:12
But isn't one river crossing over the Kakhovka Dam? That one, I'd guess, would not be targeted for destruction. There is a road on top of this dam, but I doubt, it would be capable of allowing lot of heavy armour to pass. So no good replacement for the bridges in Cherson.
Because the dam is user for water control, and electricity generation, not a valid target for destruction by the UA forces.
PedroMorales
06-20-22, 09:26
There is a road on top of this dam, but I doubt, it would be capable of allowing lot of heavy armour to pass. So no good replacement for the bridges in Cherson.
Because the dam is user for water control, and electricity generation, not a valid target for destruction by the UA forces.All these Nazis can do is destroy, just like the last days of the Reich. Speaking of which, little Emperor Macron lost and Colombia has told the Yanks to f off. Civilisation's only hope is open season on acultural interlopers (Americans, other ferals).
Russians take a lot of shit you twerp as they have no other choice. They took a thorough ass whooping in the Russo-Japanese War. They took an additional ass whooping from the Bolcheviks and backed out of WW I. They were at the standing eight count from the Nazis until the West rescued them through re-supplies. They lost the Cold War, their women sucking Western cock to this day to survive, and now have an economy about the size of Texas. To add insult to injury, they've been forced to tuck tail and tun from Kyiv and Kharkiv, and can barely hold their own against a much smaller neighboring country. They are seemingly all white though excepting the Asian provinces, and anti-Jew, and that's why they get a sympathetic though meaningless ear from you here in ISG. Yawns. Bigots absent intellectual pursuits are a dime a dozen.Very well said.
The United States and Britain significantly supplying the Russians is an interesting fact that even Stalin and Khrushchev admonished as a major cause for their victory.
I fast forward to today and it would appear Russian military equipment is not a match for Western equipment. Russia's relative isolation and its failure to modernize in a deep sense has always limited the country.
Elvis 2008
06-20-22, 17:16
With the American far right in his corner, and in power in the US, he'd have a real shot at pulling it off.What far right wing Americans have voiced support for Putin? It is better to say that we want to hold back on your wanton spending. That $40 billion in weapons money is going to get us nothing. How much "foreign aid" money to Ukraine ended up in Democratic coffers? You expect us to believe Hunter Biden was the only one? All you lefties were and are making bank demonizing Putin. If you are so anti-Putin, go volunteer to fight the Ruskies yourself.
Unlike some, I don't need a fuckboard to find foreign pussy. I've lived abroad for enough years that I can manage just fine.Easy Cowboy. Don't bite the forum that feeds everyone. This is the International Sex Guide.
Similar to me challenging Golfinho awhile back on his post that Americans take their strong currency to buy cheap, third world pussy, we shouldn't criticize the forum and its members inadvertently or not.
I agree that it's going to be "a long, grinding war" but you seem to presume that Ukraine somehow has a power to stop it. It doesn't.I agree with the sentiment. Barring Putin dying or being deposed, I just don't know how the war comes to some type of end without negotiations.
I think there is a strong possibility that when the fighting ceases the dividing line between Russia and Ukraine will look like the Korean Demilitarized Zone. I suspect Russia and the Ukraine will be in a state of hostility for many years to come.
While I'm absolutely pro-Ukraine in sentiment, I've done my best to focus on what's actually happening, not on what "should" happen or even what I want to happen. If you can indicate the post, or posts, of mine in which I cross the line into prediction territory, please share.
It seems to me that I'm the loudest voice in this forum shouting that predictions are a fool's errand, as this war is unique in many aspects and there are too many variables, known and unknown. In fact, that's the very criticism I level against your article, is it not?
My personal feelings aside, any optimism I've expressed is generally based on optimistic developments, such as arms commitments and other support measures for Ukraine, or the recent granting of EU candidate status. Any such developments that help Ukraine sustain their war effort are positive things, and I'm not shy about pointing them out.
If, however, support for Ukraine started to fade, or other developments with long-term negative implications occurred, I would discuss those honestly. To this point I would assert that the weight of the evidence leans in a positive direction for Ukraine. And, as I've also posted numerous times, I do my best to focus on the tides, rather than waves or ripples..Let me clarify. I said all predictions on this war are specious. As far as you making predictions, I can't recall if you specifically did or didn't. I do however think you might be more optimistic for the post-war outcome than I am. My opinion on that can change and most certainly will as time and things progress with the battle, the Russian economy, the global economy and the diplomatic front. (Note: I am not in camp with the pro-Russian or anti-Ukrainian crowd.).
Since I think Foreign Affairs tries to be somewhat objective, let me give you some further background on the article I posted. It was titled "What If Ukraine Wins?" It was a part of a multi article set. The other titles are "What If Russia Loses?" "What if Russia Wins?" "What If Russia Makes a Deal? And "What If the War in Ukraine Doesn't End?" So Foreign Affairs does try to look at all the possibilities for an outcome. I will have to admit they take a relatively pessimistic tone in all the possibilities.
I think you have laid out above the poor scenarios for Russia nicely. I don't have any disagreement there.
Easy Cowboy. Don't bite the forum that feeds everyone. This is the International Sex Guide.
Similar to me challenging Golfinho awhile back on his post that Americans take their strong currency to buy cheap, third world pussy, we shouldn't criticize the forum and its members inadvertently or not.As I noted, I've made extensive use of the US-centric site. I was just responding to the asinine insinuation that one's number of posts has any relevance to the content of those posts. Poor Pedrito has really taken to scraping the bottom of the barrel in his futile attempts to attack me. His latest bleatings truly reek of desperation.
At the recent St. Petersburg Int'l Economic Forum (SPIEF) Kazakhstan President Tokayev raised eyebrows when he said his country would refuse to recognize the separatist republics of Luhansk and Donetsk. Here's the link and quote:
https://en.trend.az/casia/kazakhstan/3610762.html
"It has been calculated that if the right of a nation to self-determination is organized throughout the globe, instead of the 193 states that are now members of the UN, more than 500-600 states will appear on earth. It will be chaos. For this reason, we do not recognize either Taiwan, or Kosovo, or South Ossetia, or Abkhazia. Apparently, this principle will also be applied to quasi-state structures, which, in our opinion, are Lugansk and Donetsk. This is a frank answer to your frank question".
And, in another discordant note, Tokayev refused to accept an award (Order of Alexander Nevsky) from Russia. Putin is reportedly furious at this show of disrespect, especially since the SPIEF was hosted by Russia. And the same reports state that Putin is planning consequences (preparing "gifts") in response.
https://newsfounded.com/ukraineeng/tokayev-humiliated-putin-dictator-will-answer-unian/
Two additional reports state that Russia has placed restrictions on flows of Kazakh oil through a pipeline and that Kazakhstan may be responding by blocking railcars full of Russian coal. Take these last two reports with a grain of salt, as they're still awaiting verification by more established news sources. But still, everything taken as a whole seems to suggest that all is not rosy in LilliPutin's own backyard.
https://intellinews.com/face-to-face-with-putin-kazakhstan-s-president-refuses-to-recognise-ukraine-breakaway-republics-248002/
"Indeed, one of the first developments in relation to Russia and Kazakhstan that occurred on June 17, shortly after Tokayev's words, was an announcement that the Caspian Pipeline Consortium (CPC) would be periodically halting oil shipments in order to allow the Russian Emergency Situations Ministry to defuse around 50 WWII era mines it had found on the Black Sea seabed. Kazakhstan relies significantly on the CPC infrastructure for oil exports".
https://thesaxon.org/kazakhstan-blocked-1700-wagons-with-russian-coal-media/
"Authorities of Kazakhstan decided to block 1700 wagons with Russian coal on their territory. The Telegram channel "We Can Explain" writes about this with reference to its sources".
Again, some of the above reporting needs additional verification, but that won't be easy since I doubt either Russia or Kazakhstan will want to discuss any problems. But it certainly seems like something to keep an eye on and, though it may not result in any major change to the situation, it's an example of one of those "under the radar" variables that no one's really discussed or analyzed. Or, if they have, I haven't seen it yet.
Easy Cowboy. Don't bite the forum that feeds everyone. This is the International Sex Guide.
Similar to me challenging Golfinho awhile back on his post that Americans take their strong currency to buy cheap, third world pussy, we shouldn't criticize the forum and its members inadvertently or not.That's completely irrelevant to the point, as no one in their right mind is thinking of going to the Ukraine or Russia now. But if you are out to give Golfinho a BJ then you need a different angle.
Very well said.
The United States and Britain significantly supplying the Russians is an interesting fact that even Stalin and Khrushchev admonished as a major cause for their victory.
I fast forward to today and it would appear Russian military equipment is not a match for Western equipment. Russia's relative isolation and its failure to modernize in a deep sense has always limited the country.US and British re-supply on their back channel was essential or else the thorough ass whooping of the Russos would have been completed.
Let me clarify. I said all predictions on this war are specious. As far as you making predictions, I can't recall if you specifically did or didn't. I do however think you might be more optimistic for the post-war outcome than I am. My opinion on that can change and most certainly will as time and things progress with the battle, the Russian economy, the global economy and the diplomatic front. (Note: I am not in camp with the pro-Russian or anti-Ukrainian crowd.).
Since I think Foreign Affairs tries to be somewhat objective, let me give you some further background on the article I posted. It was titled "What If Ukraine Wins?" It was a part of a multi article set. The other titles are "What If Russia Loses?" "What if Russia Wins?" "What If Russia Makes a Deal? And "What If the War in Ukraine Doesn't End?" So Foreign Affairs does try to look at all the possibilities for an outcome. I will have to admit they take a relatively pessimistic tone in all the possibilities.
I think you have laid out above the poor scenarios for Russia nicely. I don't have any disagreement there.I didn't realize that was the case. But I tend to be critical of most media, as a general rule, because there's so much shallow reporting out there. And for me the cardinal sin is the widespread reluctance of authors to be honest and humble about how much they don't know. It's as if they think their reputation will take a hit if they don't sound authoritative. Or maybe it's the fault of the editors or corporate managers? I don't know, but I think the opposite would be the case. I know I'd certainly respect them more.
Think about it in terms of historical wars. How often did the learned pundits and analysts, writing in the early stages of those wars, get it right? In the Civil War, for example, the early advantages were held by the South as Lee was more advance-minded and McLellan was more on the back foot. So, anyone writing before the 2nd Battle of Bull Run, to pick one milestone, would have been justified in being pessimistic about the Union's prospects.
In WW-II, Allied butt was being royally kicked by the Axis for most of the early stages of the war. Of course, most US media coverage was of the patriotic cheerleader variety, but I'm sure serious analysts had deep concerns regarding the course of the war. But did any pundit or analyst accurately predict that Hitler would try something like Operation Barbarossa, and thereby squander his advantage?
Maybe I've missed a war or particular pundit in which accurate predictions took place. I'll happily admit to that, if such an example exists. But it seems to me that the record of wartime analysts is about as good as those who make economic projections, which is to say not very good. Don't get me wrong, they're great at pointing out things to watch out for, and also for explaining things that have already happened. But the sheer number of dynamic variables involved in a wartime scenario makes it a daunting challenge.
As for my optimism, it's simply based on my assessment of how tidal forces are currently flowing. One prime example is that I think there's been a paradigm shift in how the world views Russia, and what that means for geopolitical relationships going forward. Putin-Dora's Box has been opened, with all the hatefulness and evil revealed, and there's no closing it again. Putin could order a stop to the fighting, and withdraw his forces from Ukraine, but that wouldn't return us to the status quo ante. They've crossed the Rubicon and will be (rightly) perceived as a threat, and NOT as a partner, for decades (or generations) to come. And I think that new reality will create even more alliances in Europe and beyond as a necessary protective counterbalance. Of course there will be bumps in the road, but I think things will come together, not because of altruistic motives, but because of legitimate security concerns. It'll be messy but I think the West (NATO, EU, etc.) will figure it out. OTOH, I don't see any realistic scenario by which Russia avoids pariah status and a significantly more isolated existence than before. And that's a tidal force I see that's flowing inexorably in a negative direction for Russia.
What far right wing Americans have voiced support for Putin? It is better to say that we want to hold back on your wanton spending. That $40 billion in weapons money is going to get us nothing. How much "foreign aid" money to Ukraine ended up in Democratic coffers? You expect us to believe Hunter Biden was the only one? All you lefties were and are making bank demonizing Putin. If you are so anti-Putin, go volunteer to fight the Ruskies yourself.Twerp there's no need to demonize Putin as he does it himself, attacking breadlines and maternity wards while executing people with their hands tied behind their backs in basements. As to me, if someone comes to my neighborhood doing the same I'll take up arms. In the meantime I'll support our allies abroad in a similar predicament. Asking AARP members to become overseas mercenaries when they call out your unamerican isolationlist nonsense represents the Tu Quoque fallacy which is another take on the Ad hominem. Only 11 Republican senators were against the latest aid package, no Dem so you are off on the fringes where you belong.
https://www.thoughtco.com/tu-quoque-logical-fallacy-1692568
P.S. As to Hunter's laptop, that one is filed away with your 2000 Mules, ballots on Chinese paper, Hillary's emails, Barak's birth certificate, lock her up, stop the steal, John Durham, and the array of Covid conspiracy theories you suckers have been pitching for two years. The one grifting in Ukraine is Trump, caught on tape withholding taxpayer funds for personal favors.
That's completely irrelevant to the point, as no one in their right mind is thinking of going to the Ukraine or Russia now. But if you are out to give Golfinho a BJ then you need a different angle.I'm sorry, but I don't think you followed the context of my post as they relate to the posts referenced.
I didn't realize that was the case. But I tend to be critical of most media, as a general rule, because there's so much shallow reporting out there. And for me the cardinal sin is the widespread reluctance of authors to be honest and humble about how much they don't know. It's as if they think their reputation will take a hit if they don't sound authoritative. Or maybe it's the fault of the editors or corporate managers? I don't know, but I think the opposite would be the case. I know I'd certainly respect them more..I would concur with your take on today's journalism. It's moved far beyond reporting. Every journalist seems to be providing commentary. It doesn't matter if we are talking politics, economics, COVID or the war in the Ukraine. The media wants to be viewed as an authority on all matters.
As far as the future regardless of the war's resolution, Putin has put Russia in a very bad place for likely his remaining life. However, I am a cynical and critical American. I think there will be the usual rapprochement by the usual European countries sooner and more amicable than the USA And you. K. You can bet Poland and the Baltic states will not look past this Ukraine aggression anytime soon.
PedroMorales
06-21-22, 15:57
Let's pray Kaliningrad fares well and that Vilnius does not get the mushroom cloud it deserves from either China or Russia, as it has some nice architecture.
I see the two Yankee mercenaries (the Viet and the bio labs guy) are saying they are anti war. Walking corpses often are.
Let the Americans and Israelis troll on. Hopefully, the Lithuanians will get what they want and deserve.
I'm sorry, but I don't think you followed the context of my post as they relate to the posts referenced.You get the benefit of the doubt as I agree with 90% of your content. Keep up the good work.
Let's pray Kaliningrad fares well and that Vilnius does not get the mushroom cloud it deserves from either China or Russia, as it has some nice architecture.
I see the two Yankee mercenaries (the Viet and the bio labs guy) are saying they are anti war. Walking corpses often are.
Let the Americans and Israelis troll on. Hopefully, the Lithuanians will get what they want and deserve.There's prisoners of war on both sides as is the norm. Trades are possible. China isn't interested beyond lip service as Russia is a third rate buttboy, an economy the size of Texas. Push comes to shove they side with the Yanks. As you are a buttboy in a hooker forum, bend, grab your ankles and cringe. LOL.
Reiner Otto
06-21-22, 17:45
Let's pray Kaliningrad fares well and that Vilnius does not get the mushroom cloud it deserves Ah, I hear Putlers troll speaking. Since when is a independent state, like Luthania, obliged to allow any type of goods, even military, to transit its borders?
Only Putler might request this "natural right", based on military power. Unfortunately, Luthania is member of NATO, so its not so easy for him to enforce this "natural right".
BTW, may be, Germany should request "repatriation" of Koenigsberg (actually: Kaliningrad), because of being native German for more than 300 years.
Putler is invited to carry goods to Kaliningrad by air. Like the Americans did, during the blockage of Berlin by the Russians.
Or Putler might send ships. No blockage of Kaliningrads ports, like Putler does to the UA.
John Clayton
06-21-22, 18:11
...BTW, may be, Germany should request "repatriation" of Koenigsberg (actually: Kaliningrad)...Also, how about Karelia and the Kuril islands?
Yeah, the concept that Putin was right all along (which is what the article was about) looks more and more clear. I do not think the Western Press has expressed the Russian POV very well, and I am not even sure this article got into it. All you hear in the Western Press is Putin is a mad man and they highlight whenever a Russian mentions being anti-war.
My understanding is Putin felt surrounded, and that was what the Atlantic mentioned victory in Ukraine would be, a surrounded Russia. I was told that Russia had only 2 of the 9 traditional choke points against an invasion and now are in control of 5 of the 9. In addition ethnic Russians were being tortured and killed in Donbas and water was being cut off to Crimea. Add in Ukraine being in the EU and Nato, the coup of 2014, and Russiagate where the Dems demonized Putin unfairly and Ukrainegate which showed the Dems had a stranglehold in Ukraine, and far from Putin being a mad man, I can see why he felt the need for a pre-emptive strike. He is a bully but I do not see him as irrational.
Putin is a guy who took over for Yeltsin who was a drunk and ruled at a time Russians were starving. Say you what you want about him ethically, but he gets the trains to run on time almost as well as any Russian leader can. Yes, it is not a Democracy, but Russians have historically preferred a strong armed leader versus an elected one. This again is something most Westerners do not get.
The hysteria has died down. No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. The return on the $40 billion the USA has sent to Ukraine may as well have been lit on fire for all the good it will do, and our nation is suffering with higher oil and gas prices and higher food prices.
Here are two pieces which show the diametrically opposed positions: https://www.zerohedge.com/political/heat-scorched-odessa-texas-has-been-without-water-all-week-due-ageing-infrastructure.
As residents are hopeful that the crisis finally resolves Saturday, it's worth noting the irony in billions of taxpayer dollars currently being sent to places like Odessa, Ukraine. Even as Americans in places like Odessa, Texas can't even get drinkable water due to "ageing infrastructure".
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-must-do-more-ukraine-even-if-costs-food-fuel-are-high-western-populations-nato
Top officials in the West warning their populations against "Ukraine fatigue", saying that 'sacrifices' must be made for the long-term despite the 'high costs' in blood and treasure of continuing to ramp up support for Ukraine. This time it's NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg making unusually blunt statements, addressing the common masses.
"We must prepare for the fact that it could take years. We must not let up in supporting Ukraine," he began by saying in an interview published Sunday by Germany's Bild am Sonntag newspaper. He stressed this should be the case "even if the costs are high, not only for military support, also because of rising energy and food prices. ".
Why do we have to help Ukraine? The whole notion that Russia was going to March onto the English Channel made no sense to me. So the French, UK, and USA are not going to nuke Russia if that happens? Since when?
The question I have for this NATO General is we know the defense industry gets a return on investing in war but do we the American people get such a return? That answer is not maybe but probably not and in that case, we should not keep committing. If a NATO country is invaded, that is another story. If you look at this economically, Putin was right. The benefit of defending Ukraine was not worth the cost.Zero Hedge is not quite the BBC or Reuters in its reporting.
USA Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian Propaganda.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-15/us-accuses-financial-website-of-spreading-russian-propaganda#xj4 y7 vzkg.
Is Zero Hedge a Russian Trojan Horse?
https://newrepublic.com/article/156788/zero-hedge-russian-trojan-horse
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge
Reiner Otto
06-21-22, 18:57
Also, how about Karelia and the Kuril islands?Makes sense. Wasn't Karelia annexed by Soviet Union, having "Security Issues" for Leningrad (now St. Petersburg again), because border to Finland was too close?
Nowadays Putler argues a bit similar.
Reiner Otto
06-21-22, 19:06
No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. But Putler has learned a few lessons from Adolf Hitler. And Stalin. Hitler annexed "Sudetenland" with same argumentation as Putler uses today.
Only difference: Hitlers army was really welcome with (some) flowers.
Stalin annexed part of Finland having "Security Concerns", because border to Finland was too close to Leningrad (St. Petersburg).
Western contries believed, that Hitlers aggression would be fnished, after grabbing "Sudetenland".
They were wrong.
Not to make same mistake with Putler again. For whom the Baltics or Moldova might be next countries of interest.
Elvis 2008
06-21-22, 19:21
As to Hunter's laptop, that one is filed away with your 2000 Mules, ballots on Chinese paper, Hillary's emails, Barak's birth certificate, lock her up, stop the steal, John Durham, and the array of Covid conspiracy theories you suckers have been pitching for two years.Sorry, Hunter's laptop was real. The claims that the laptop was Russian disinformation was complete bullshit. Hiliary kept emails on an unsecure server illegally. That is a fact, and her case should have gone to trial. It was not appropriate for Comey, who we now know was compromised, to have made the decision not to prosecute. That should have been left to a prosecutor but Loretta Lynch was compromised as well.
2000 mules is a theory based on circumstantial evidence. The main charge against it is that the cell phone signals are not that accurate, but anyone who uses Uber and can see how accurate GPS is with phones knows that is bullshit. Durham caught a government lawyer lying on a FISA warrant request. He also caught Sussman lying to the FBI. He was found not guilty but no one said he was not lying. And the lab leak theory has now been accepted as possible even by the WHO.
I do not know about the Chinese paper and yeah, the Obama birth certificate thing was bullshit. Congratulations, you got one right, and that one was 10 years ago.
So all the things you call bullshit conspiracy theory blew up in your face. Russiagate was a total conspiracy and fraud. Trump being spied on during the campaign was conspiracy theory too until it was proven to be true.
Hunter Biden was collecting big money from the Ukrainian aid package, and daddy Joe fired the prosecutor looking into said corruption. Nancy Pelosi's kid and Mitt Romney's kid were cashing in too. That is not illegal but it is disgusting. Giving them money was basically legal bribery.
Then we learned that Ukraine was being run by Democratic operatives in NGOs. Maybe that is not known to the Republicans who voted for this $40 billion in military aid but it should have been. Even the hero to Democrats Marie Yovanovitch, former Ukraine ambassador, admits that had Trump been in office, Putin would not have invaded, and it is not because Trump was Putin's butt boy but because Biden continued to fuck around in Ukraine.
So here we go again. You dumb Dems unload on Putin like you did on Trump. Your litany of analogies to Hitler, Pot Pol ETC are predictable. Thing is in every situation where that kind of language was used, and a despot was kicked out in recent times, that nation's quality of life went in the toilet. Hell, you just demonized Trump to no end and we got Biden. Covid cases soared with him, we have inflation and $6 gas, a bear market, and shortages of tampons and baby formula. Woo hoo! Of course, like so many of the dumbest Dems you are not in America so you do not see the effects like those of us who live here do, but it is not good.
So get beyond the name calling, and what have you got? Nothing. Everything was baked into a Ukrainian victory and that is not happening. That $40 billion that was spent has been pissed away. Who cares? You are not paying taxes. Your lazy ass is getting social security checks and cheap health care. Of course, those of us who have to work for it and pay for it are not pleased. I wonder if all you saber rattling dumb Dem freeloaders would have been this way had your SS checks been cut to pay for said aid.
So now what? You dumb Dems going to continue talking shit about Putin? How does that help? If you want this war over with, and it is pretty clear now you do not, Putin has to be dealt with. He is the only one who can stop it.
Your grand plan of spending billions of dollars to get a huge boost in the midterms from Putin being kicked out of office has gone up in smoke, and that and only that was what all the trash talking was about. If you all gave a damn about the Ukrainian people, this war would be over with. Hell, you dumb Dems are continuing to throw Ukrainian lives in the toilet just to "weaken" Putin.
PedroMorales
06-21-22, 19:36
Ukraine president, Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelensky, addressed the African Union yesterday. Out of 55 invited heads of state only four (4) attended the virtual session. The message is America can keep its Ukrainian pervert, who plays piano with his penis.
Hopefully, the false war will be over soon and Lithuania can be blitzed off the face of the earth as a warning to Canada about treaty obligations. The beggars in Warsaw also need a lesson. The main objective must be to cleanse Europe of Americans, who are behind all this. Can't make an omelette without cracking heads.
The hysteria has died down. No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. The return on the $40 billion the USA has sent to Ukraine may as well have been lit on fire for all the good it will do, and our nation is suffering with higher oil and gas prices and higher food prices.Well when Russia is blowing up maternity wards and breadlines, shooting down seniors in the street and executing civilians in basements they are pretty much "blowing up everything in sight" aren't they? And if he was only interested in conquering areas with Russian speaking populations then why did he try to take Kyiv? You also erect a straw man when you talk about marching to the English Channel when Putin has been clear that he wants to see the restoration of the former USSR in regard to a rollback of NATO to pre-1997. So in essence, out of your love for arguing, you come to the Ukraine free for all thread sympathizing with our enemies with the usual spurious arguments.
As to your gasoline costs, you deserve to pay double driving an old over sized pickup truck when an economy car will do, no sympathy here. Democracy is and that of our allies is more important than the inconveniences of a selfish twit.
But Putler has learned a few lessons from Adolf Hitler. And Stalin. Hitler annexed "Sudetenland" with same argumentation as Putler uses today.
Stalin annexed part of Finland having "Security Concerns", because border to Finland was too close to Leningrad (St. Petersburg).
Western contries believed, that .The Ukrunazis are conducting scorched earth tactics destroying all the infrastructure they can along with murdering all the civilians they can while razing their homes and running back to their Banderastan capital. They apparently understand how unwelcome they've been in the territories grafted unto their State by the Soviets.
They've learned quite a few lessons from Hitler, with the final ones on the way.
The Ukrunazis are conducting scorched earth tactics destroying all the infrastructure they can along with murdering all the civilians they can while razing their homes and running back to their Banderastan capital. They apparently understand how unwelcome they've been in the territories grafted unto their State by the Soviets.
They've learned quite a few lessons from Hitler, with the final ones on the way.Murdering civilians has long been out of the Russo playbook dating to Chechnya, Syria, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. We are exacting a heavy price, much to their dismay.
What far right wing Americans have voiced support for PutinThis is disingenuous as you've offered praise for Tucker Carlson who sucks Vlad's 3 inch cock on a nightly basis. I'm also glad to see you identify yourself as "far right" which is generous given your gullible, kooky views. As to spending, yes, we support democracy abroad as the world is a community. Disorder across Europe effects us at home, Duh. Even cock swallowers like Josh Hawley know this, but pitch the isolationist nonsense to dumbfucks like you for his political advantage.
Elvis 2008
06-22-22, 01:42
So in essence, out of your love for arguing, you come to the Ukraine free for all thread sympathizing with our enemies with the usual spurious arguments.LOL. I do not take my marching orders from the NY Times and Washington Post like you do. I like to think for myself.
As to your gasoline costs, you deserve to pay double driving an old over sized pickup truck when an economy car will do, no sympathy here. Democracy is and that of our allies is more important than the inconveniences of a selfish twit.I am glad you are worried about my gas prices. In case you have not noticed the ruble and Russian economy are stronger and why not? They have been getting richer than ever thanks to Biden's bone headed energy policy. I am glad you are concerned about the truck I do not own but I think giving Putin billions more is the issue.
What brought oil prices down before was American drilling. The number of operational rigs peaked at 1900+ under Obama in 2014: https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/us-rig-count/2014.
Now even with the price higher than ever, there are only 740 rigs going. https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/us-rig-count/2022.
As to why, Biden explains: https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/chevron-ceo-slams-political-rhetoric-scorching-letter-biden.
First, he pokes fun at "hurt feelings" of the CEO of Chevron. That was pointless and completely fucking stupid. Then Biden says, "we ought to be able to work something out whereby they can increase refining capacity and still not give up on transitioning to renewable energy. " he then says we have plenty of oil fields working now. LOL. You cannot make this shit up.
Of course, this is on Zero Hedge so Biden's own words do not care if you are a Dem. If the same linked video was in the NYT, then and only then it is valid.
So let us get things straight, Paulie, you and your buddy Biden are putting the climate change agenda ahead of all American motorists, many world industries, and the Ukrainian citizens you are crying about whose lives are being taken. Where do you think Putin gets the money for his bombs dummy? Hell, if we were drilling like crazy, that would do more to hurt Putin than anything else. But you dumb Dems are not into actions. Nah, all you do is mouth off about how much you care.
And as far as the earth in Ukraine that getting shelled on a daily basis in part with weapons bought and paid for by us? It is nothing. Mother Earth can handle one country shelled into oblivion. None of those rocket launchers and explosives have anything to do with CO2 emissions right?
Just like you were pro-lockdown back in March 2020, when we actually had fewer Covid cases than we do now, and you have forgotten about Covid, you will forget about Ukraine after the mid terms. Covid was wiped from the front page after you dumb Dems decided you had a new way to attack Republicans. Republicans stupidly were not getting vaxxed and are now in love with Putin. You will not give a shit about Ukraine after the mid terms and you get your asses handed to you. And predictably, you dumb Dems will find something new to be outraged about and demonize Republicans all over again. Your concerns about Ukraine and its people will be long gone, and that per the article I linked is exactly what Putin is counting on.
We Dems care about Covid, we Dems care more about the Ukrainian people, and you will say you care more about whatever comes next. That is being a Democrat. It is not doing anything to fix anything. It is just pretending to care more.
Your insulting me over gas prices instead of Putin's billions of dollars more from higher oil prices shows how brain dead you are. Or is that a straw man too?
Sorry, Hunter's laptop was real. So is mine is an Acer Spin, love it, Where are the charges again Hunter or Hillary? Where's the lock her up?
2000 mules is a theory based on circumstantial evidence. No evidence at all, you lost the election and try to do better next time.
So here we go again. You dumb Dems unload on Putin like you did on Trump. It's easy to unload on someone when he sucks the puny cock of our enemy, and with a facial finish each time. That's Trump. That's when he lies about a pandemic suggesting that we drink bleach and shine UV light up our oracfices. Then unleashes a mob of hillbillies on the Capital to kill cops and the VP, that's just for starters.
P.S. As to Obamas birth certificate, as to you admitting to that farce, what makes you think the other conspiracy theories you are chasing are true? LOL.
But Putler has learned a few lessons from Adolf Hitler. And Stalin. Hitler annexed "Sudetenland" with same argumentation as Putler uses today.
Only difference: Hitlers army was really welcome with (some) flowers.
Stalin annexed part of Finland having "Security Concerns", because border to Finland was too close to Leningrad (St. Petersburg).
Western countries believed, that Hitlers aggression would be finished, after grabbing "Sudetenland".
They were wrong.
Not to make same mistake with Putler again. For whom the Baltics or Moldova might be next countries of interest.Good post, there's just no "security concerns. " The only concern is swallowing up Ukraine. They want the farmlands and the ports, and couldn't care less about borders with their refusal to complain about Finnish borders. The only problem here is the American far right, with their insistent on deep throating Putin's puny cock, and swallowing the cum of course. Yo.
PedroMorales
06-22-22, 09:22
The Ukrunazis are conducting scorched earth tactics destroying all the infrastructure they can along with murdering all the civilians they can while razing their homes and running back to their Banderastan capital. They apparently understand how unwelcome they've been in the territories grafted unto their State by the Soviets.
They've learned quite a few lessons from Hitler, with the final ones on the way.I find Chinese media very good. Accented but they understand. I am surprised Chinese advisors are not at the front with Russia, learning the ropes. Russia's main job is to destroy America's satraps and push on to strange Canada and other dictatorships (remember the truckers). There is no point arguing with the Nazis here, some of whom were probably gang rapists in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We can only hope that Russia will up the ante and bring this whole American house of cards tumbling down.
2 Interesting books look back at Ukraine's Past.
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250116253/inthemidstofcivilizedeurope
"Between 1918 and 1921, over a hundred thousand Jews were murdered in Ukraine by peasants, townsmen, and soldiers who blamed the Jews for the turmoil of the Russian Revolution. In hundreds of separate incidents, ordinary people robbed their Jewish neighbors with impunity, burned down their houses, ripped apart their Torah scrolls, sexually assaulted them, and killed them. Largely forgotten today, these pogroms—ethnic riots—dominated headlines and international affairs in their time. Aid workers warned that six million Jews were in danger of complete extermination. Twenty years later, these dire predictions would come true.
Drawing upon long-neglected archival materials, including thousands of newly discovered witness testimonies, trial records, and official orders, acclaimed historian Jeffrey Veidlinger shows for the first time how this wave of genocidal violence created the conditions for the Holocaust".
The other Historian https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewashing-ukraines-past-volodymyr-viatrovych/.
The Historian Whitewashing Ukraine's Past.
Volodymyr Viatrovych is erasing the country's racist and bloody history — stripping pogroms and ethnic cleansing from the official archives.
There you have it, both sides of the History of Ukraine.
In the meantime in Israel "This week, the veteran right-wing journalist Andrew Neil tweeted "Israel fails to stand up for Ukraine. Reluctant to impose sanctions Stayed silent after Russian airstrike near Babi Yar memorial, where German Nazis killed tens of thousands of Jews in WW2". https://inews.co.uk/opinion/israel-failing-ukraine-welcoming-putins-friends-actions-cannot-be-ignored-.
Elvis 2008
06-22-22, 13:48
This is disingenuous as you've offered praise for Tucker Carlson who sucks Vlad's 3 inch cock on a nightly basis.You will have to show me said clips. TC has always made certain that his opposition for Democratic positions like throwing $40 billion away does not equal support for Putin. TC asks why should we care about the borders in Ukraine when we have porous ones at home.
Disorder across Europe effects us at home, Duh. Even cock swallowers like Josh Hawley know this, but pitch the isolationist nonsense to dumbfucks like you for his political advantage.Sorry, dummy, I am done with your stupidity and am profiting for it. The latest dumb Dem method to solve problems is to destroy the economy and have the government spend money to solve things. Hell, let's lay off unessential workers and then print money to compensate them. Let's ban Russian oil and gas and then print up coupons or stop the gasoline tax to cover the subsequent inflation. Yeah, let's not ban Russian oil and produce more of our own because doing so would give more money to American oil companies which typically support Republicans.
Of course, dummies like you do no see that the cost for this free money is inflation, higher interest rates, and a stock market plunge. I just shake my head at the current Democrat model of "let's destroy the economy to show that we care. ".
So I profited from this. While your buddy and "genius" Eih was long the market and has gotten crushed to the tune of being down 20 to 25% since April, I have been buying triple short ETFs and am up 60%. I am kicking myself though at not going long the ruble after Biden tried to destroy it. I would have been up 100% had I done that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/13/climate/russia-oil-gas-record-revenue.html#text=Russia%20 earned%20 what%20 is%20 very, organization%20 based%20 in%20 Helsinki%2 see%20 Finland.
"Russia earned what is very likely a record 93 billion euros in revenue from exports of oil, gas and coal in the first 100 days of the country's invasion of Ukraine, according to data analyzed by the Center for Research on Energy and Clean Air, a research organization based in Helsinki, Finland. ".
And if you are a Democrat, you call the above news success.
So do not worry about my financial condition. I am doing great seeing how your leader of choice runs our economy into the ground while boosting Russia's. But at least like you, he cares.
The civilian casualties in Hungary. "Soviets put a brutal end to Hungarian revolution".
An estimated 2,500 Hungarians died and 200,000 more fled as refugees. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviets-put-brutal-end-to-hungarian-revolution.
The number of Civilians killed in Czechkoslovakia. "Death Toll of 1968 Invasion Published For First Time".
"The 1968 Soviet-led invasion of Czechoslovakia killed at least 72 people and seriously injured 266, a newspaper reported Wednesday in the first official disclosure of the casualty toll"https://apnews.com/article/b4a9687dbcadae26df1833f87a88797d.
Initially, some civilians tried to argue with the invading troops, but this met with little or no success. After the USSR used photographs of these discussions as proof that the invasion troops were being greeted amicably, secret Czechoslovak broadcasting stations discouraged the practice, reminding the people that "pictures are silent". The protests in reaction to the invasion lasted only about seven days. Explanations for the fizzling of these public outbursts mostly centre on demoralisation of the population, whether from the intimidation of all the enemy troops and tanks or from being abandoned by their leaders. Many Czechoslovaks saw the signing of the Moscow Protocol as treasonous. Another common explanation is that, due to the fact that most of Czech society was middle class, the cost of continued resistance meant giving up a comfortable lifestyle, which was too high a price to pay".
Decades later at present, Putin's ally is in Hungary and the Czech Republic is number 18 in the league of Happy Nations. Czech Republic Rises To 18th In World Happiness Rankings https://brnodaily.com/2021/03/24/news/czech-republic-rises-to-18th-in-world-happiness-rankings/.
Went on a backpacking vacations in my misspent youth to both countries just before The Wall came down and I never met anyone there or in Poland who liked Russia or the Russians.
The civilian casualties in Hungary. "Soviets put a brutal end to Hungarian revolution".
An estimated 2,500 Hungarians died and
"The 1968 Soviet-led
Initially, some civilians tried to argue with the invading troops, but this met with little or no success. After the USSR used photographs of these discussions as proof that the invasion troops were being greeted amicably, secret Czechoslovak broadcasting stations discouraged the practice, reminding the people that "pictures are silent". The protests in reaction.The Hungarians acted indecisively at crucial moments and were ultimately betrayed by their own leadership. Also there was the unfortunate timing of the Suez Crisis.
Prague 1968? Anything else happen that year? Like revolutionary outbreak elsewhere, USA maybe.
Russians don't bluff, and they don't take shit. Putin has said to expect a change of (leadership) in the Anglo-American sphere. Now, there's something to look forward to -- while the globohomos sit rubbing their hands together wetdreaming about how many more dead orthodox Ukrainians it will take until leadership change in Russia.
https://www.businessinsider.com/mounting-signs-the-kremlin-is-purging-top-generals-in-ukraine-experts-2022-6
The above link is the short version. The link below has more detail, as well as the latest battle assessment.
https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-21
"The Kremlin recently replaced the commander of the Russian Airborne (VDV) forces and may be in the process of radically reshuffling the command structure of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, indicating a possible purge of senior officers blamed for failures in Ukraine".
Also, about the battle assessment, any objective observer will note that the give and take continues, with neither side (yet) able to gain any significant strategic advantage.
That latter point brings up an ongoing flaw with most mainstream media reporting. It doesn't make for compelling reading to simply repeat that the war is going through a "long, hard slog" phase in which there's not difference from one day to the next. So MSM outlets have a need to find stuff to attract readers even when not much new is happening.
I wonder if the lack of new developments is at least partly to blame for the lame content of so many recent forum posts? I mean, American Politics, really? Give me an effin' break! First of all, there's a dedicated thread for that. And then there's the simple fact that, except for factors that directly impact (either for or against) the current state of the war, it's completely irrelevant, or at the very least immaterial.
And, of course, there are the regular regurgitations of Russo-fascist propaganda by the schmegegge twin-trolls, with nary a connection to reality to be gleaned from their content-free bleatings. Meanwhile, real Ukrainians are fighting and dying to resist Russian imperialist aggression. Is it too much to ask to at least try to keep the focus on them?
P.S. I would be remiss if I didn't mention a couple of newsbits, like the Ukrainian attacks on both Snake Island and the oil facility in Rostov. Oh yes, and the "promotion" of the Russian ship, Vasily Bekh, to the glorious rank of Moskva-class submarine! But those are novelty items, by which I mean that they're interesting but not likely to have meaningful strategic impact.
Russians don't bluff, and they don't take shit. Putin has said to expect a change of (leadership) in the Anglo-American sphere. Now, there's something to look forward to -- while the globohomos sit rubbing their hands together wetdreaming about how many more dead orthodox Ukrainians it will take until leadership change in Russia.Putin reportedly suffered an unexplained, prolonged, and serious nosebleed. In healthy people, or if there's a physical cause like getting hit in the nose, that wouldn't be cause for concern. But for someone who is obviously unhealthy and reportedly suffering from serious ailments (cancer, etc.) an unexplained nosebleed can be an ominous sign.
https://mobile.twitter.com/generalsvr_en/status/1539307709706604548
But the real question is what happens when LilliPutin kicks the bucket? Will the successor dance on Little Vlad's grave in public, or only in private? And will the succession happen with only a few casualties, or a full-on bloodbath? Oh yes, and will any of Russia's regions decide that it's a good time to go their own way?
As far as Russians and Putin taking any shit, both Kazakhstan and Lithuania have both just spit in his eye, and Finland has been consistently giving Russia the middle finger. On that note, here's a fascinating thread discussing that, because Putin can't really retaliate against those two (Lithuania protected by NATO and Kazakhstan protected by China and Turkey), he may take out his frustration on Lukashenko instead.
https://mobile.twitter.com/generalsvr_en/status/1539509583730905089
Funny how more and more people and countries are having no problem dumping shit on Putin lately. Maybe his veneer of strength is increasingly wearing off and the depth of weakness showing through? Whatever the reason, I'm looking forward to more of the same!
Russians don't bluff, and they don't take shit.Russia takes plenty of shit, straight up the corn hole, packed tight. We can start with the Russo Japanese War, and thourough ass whooping. Then we have the Bolchevik reaming and retreat from WW I, then there's the Nazi comprehensive beatdown that only the West could save them from, then the Cold War, their women pulling trains on Western cock even to this day. And if that weren't enough, then we get the twerps invading a much smaller country in jack in the box tanks getting their ass whooped at about every turn. But so yea, want to touch NATO? They do not even begin to have the balls.
Pre-Soviet Russia, the USSR, and post-Soviet Russia, all share the same terrorizing and brutalizing DNA. This thread gives a brief, non-exhaustive list of the grievances many European nations have against Mutha Russia.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1538856994869850114.html
What I think this means is that, irrespective of what might be said publicly, there's a deep reservoir of seething antipathy toward Russia that's bubbling away under the surface, just waiting for an opportunity to erupt.
How does the saying go? Payback's a "beech" and her stripper name is Karma!
Russia takes plenty of shit, straight up the corn hole, packed tight. We can start with the Russo Japanese War, and thourough ass whooping. Then we have the Bolchevik reaming and retreat from WW I, then there's the Nazi comprehensive beatdown that only the West could save them from, then the Cold War, their women pulling trains on Western cock even to this day. And if that weren't enough, then we get the twerps invading a much smaller country in jack in the box tanks getting their ass whooped at about every turn. But so yea, want to touch NATO? They do not even begin to have the balls.You left out the repeated waves of Asiatic hordes that swept across the land enslaving the populace. Why, the very word "slave" comes from "slav" LOL! A ruskie still loves drinking tea and eating Asian-style dumplings to this very day LOLOLOL!
Pre-Soviet Russia, the USSR, and post-Soviet Russia, all share the same terrorizing and brutalizing DNA. This thread gives a brief, non-exhaustive list of the grievances many European nations have against Mutha Russia.
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1538856994869850114.html
What I think this means is that, irrespective of what might be said publicly, there's a deep reservoir of seething antipathy toward Russia that's bubbling away under the surface, just waiting for an opportunity to erupt.
How does the saying go? Payback's a "beech" and her stripper name is Karma!It's a real mutha for ya! Makes you want to run from Russia! And if you look you will discover! Putin is a real muthafucka yeah! LOLOLOL!
https://youtu.be/x-f5iOHYcW4
Elvis 2008
06-23-22, 02:17
I wonder if the lack of new developments is at least partly to blame for the lame content of so many recent forum posts? I mean, American Politics, really? Give me an effin' break! First of all, there's a dedicated thread for that. And then there's the simple fact that, except for factors that directly impact (either for or against) the current state of the war, it's completely irrelevant, or at the very least immaterial.
And, of course, there are the regular regurgitations of Russo-fascist propaganda by the schmegegge twin-trolls, with nary a connection to reality to be gleaned from their content-free bleatings. Meanwhile, real Ukrainians are fighting and dying to resist Russian imperialist aggression. Is it too much to ask to at least try to keep the focus on them?A solider gave a lecture to a class when I was in college in the 1980's. He was captured at The Battle of the Bulge and was moved to a POW camp via a horse drawn vehicle and was fed a potato a day in POW camp. He said when he was captured he knew we had one the war. The Germans were using horses, he said, "And we were eating bread made in the USA 2 days ago flown in by aircraft. ". Point is that money matters in war.
The people who said the Russians not Americans defeated the Nazis have a point, but I had family who worked the railways in Iran during WW2, and the amount of munitions that were shipped into Russia was staggering. The Iranians never saw so much stuff in their entire lives. Many on that side of my family moved to the USA after seeing how prosperous the USA was. I know from them how brutal the Russians can be.
Let's be honest. The Germans had better troops, better generals, and better equipment. They kicked the Russians ass early on as badly as they did everyone else. The Russians just had room to retreat. In the end, the Germans were done in because they lacked money and they lacked oil. Hell, they had to start using coal for oil, an incredibly inefficient process.
I was in Pecos, Texas in 2018. Oil was not even that much. It ranged from $40 to $60 a barrel then. It is a shitty West Texas town but due to the oil boom there, a room in a trailer was $100 a night. Hotels were $250 if you could find them. I talked to a city councilman there. They had so much natural gas they had to waste it and burn it. Carlos Slim of Mexico, a smart man to be sure, was building a natural gas pipeline to Mexico ready to buy up said gas. Oil companies from all over the world were drilling there, and the projects were endless. This part of Texas was producing so much oil they ran out of pipeline capacity and were having to build more. The amount of oil there was virtual unlimited, and the growth was unbelievable. People doing the most routine jobs were pulling in six figure incomes. New project after project was being planned.
Furthermore, shale oil drilling is practically no risk. There are no dry wells and on top of that, unlike conventional wells, you get the most production up front. Conventional wells typically take 5 years to get to max capacity, so this type of oil production is the only type they can quickly make up for the Russian shortfall.
I get there are supply constraints with regards to the sand, water, and cement needed to drill, but if there were 1900 rigs drilling for oil under Obama, there should be 3000+ going now. What is going to hit Putin harder than anything is not these dumb sanctions but $20 oil. You would think a fool would get this but no one in this administration does:
https://cnsnews.com/article/washington/melanie-arter/wh-press-secretary-we-dont-need-drill-more-we-need-refine-oil
DOOCY: Why not drill more here in the USA?
JEAN-PIERRE: Because we don't need to do that. What we need to do is with the oil that's out there, we need them to refine that oil so that prices so that capacity could go up, and then prices, it would go down, would apparently go down.
DOOCY: The president once said he was going to end fossil fuel. Is that now off the table?
JEAN-PIERRE: No, we are going to continue to move forward with our clean energy proposal, the climate change proposal.
DOOCY: Is that the priority. Climate change over.
JEAN-PIERRE: No, that's not what we're saying. We're saying that I'm answering the question. I'm answering the question.
DOOCY: Is the president's priority lowering gas prices or is it addressing climate change?
JEAN-PIERRE: First of all, it's we can do both at the same time. What we're trying to deal with right now is how do we lower costs for American families, and one of the things we are seeing right now with oil refineries is they are using this moment that there is a war in Ukraine to actually make a profit when there are steps that they can take so that we can actually lower gas prices for families, and so the president has taken action, right? We talked about the Strategic Petroleum.
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Russia-Sees-Extra-64-Billion-Oil-Revenue-In-June-As-Prices-Rally.html
According to estimates released on Friday by the Finance Ministry, Russia expects its additional revenue from oil and gas sales to be 393 billion rubles, or $6. 37 billion, this month. Additional budget revenues are expected at $10.66 billion (656.6 billion rubles) for the months of May and June because of the higher-than-expected oil prices, Russia said.
If oil went to $20 or $30 a barrel, that $10.66 billion would be more like $2 or $3 billion. $7 billion a month buys you a lot of bullets. Instead we are doing sanctions like they ever work.
Russia is getting economically stronger while the USA is getting weaker, and that is the point. There is going to be fatigue, and Putin is counting on that, and your buddies in Ukraine are not going to get US aid nor the money to buy said bullets with a weaker economy here. And if our economy continues to slip and the aid dries up, you can talk about their bravery all you want, but the Ukrainians are fucking doomed. But at least the orphaned children of these brave soldiers will live in a world with cooler temperatures albeit under a Russian dictator. That cooling is the theory anyway.
So you may think I am talking politics but I am actually talking about the war. In war, if resources are not managed right, failure is sure to follow.
What the hell are you talking about? Have you ever wondered why no one responds to your posts? Plan A, go suck a Russian cock and passively accept the load. Plan be, learn to speak English rather than copy and paste. I hope I've been of help.
It's a real mutha for ya! Makes you want to run from Russia! And if you look you will discover! Putin is a real muthafucka yeah! LOLOLOL!
https://youtu.be/x-f5iOHYcW4I don't know how far you want to go back Cane, but dogshit is dogshit, as is their sympathizers in the US. They will all be made to pay dearly one way or another. That's for certain.
PedroMorales
06-23-22, 08:10
German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr) head Ingo Gerhartz told the Kiel International Seapower Symposium Germany needs nuclear weapons to use against "Putin". Gerhartz is boasting of the speed with which his Luftwaffe have deployed to Slovakia and Bulgaria and how the Ukrainian AF is using them and their US-Israeli systems to murder Russian speakers.
Der Spiegel Editor Dirk Kurbjuweit published an article directly calling for Germany to have and use nuclear weapons. Kurbjuweit believes Germany was blameless in fomenting World War One and the Jews had it coming to them.
The good news is that, when this round is over, Germany will cease to exist. The only consolation is that, if Latin America survives, those who bear ultimate responsibility, will be hunted down there as well. For me, on a personal level, it won't matter, as I and hundreds of millions of others will know what the Japanese felt like after the American terrorist attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As long as America and its satraps come crushing down as well, it is all good.
Russia takes plenty of shit, straight up the corn hole, packed tight. We can start with the Russo Japanese War, and thourough ass whooping. Then we have the Bolchevik reaming and retreat from WW I, then there's the Nazi comprehensive beatdown that only the West could save them from, then the Cold War.You poor thing, you can't comprehend. Russia refused to back down and fought the Japanese: win or lose, they fought. A contrast to globohomo that has the balls to take on primitive countries by dropping bombs on them and still can't win a war, so now they use proxies to do their fighting.
https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2015/03/17/the-truth-about-the-conflict-with-russia/
Warning: do not read -- pure, made-up conspiracy propaganda.
You left out the repeated waves of Asiatic hordes that swept across the land enslaving the populace. Why, the very word "slave" comes from "slav" LOL! A ruskie still loves drinking tea and eating Asian-style dumplings to this very day LOLOLOL!The Russians kicked the Mongol's fuckin' ass. The Russians kicked their ass so bad they fled west and attacked Eastern Europe.
This is sheer jest of course. LOL.
A solider gave a lecture to a class when I was in college in the 1980's. He was captured at The Battle of the Bulge and was moved to a POW camp via a horse drawn vehicle and was fed a potato a day in POW camp. He said when he was captured he knew we had one the war. The Germans were using horses, he said, "And we were eating bread made in the USA 2 days ago flown in by aircraft. ". Point is that money matters in war.
The people who said the Russians not Americans defeated the Nazis have a point, but I had family who worked the railways in Iran during WW2, and the amount of munitions that were shipped into Russia was staggering. The Iranians never saw so much stuff in their entire lives. Many on that side of my family moved to the USA after seeing how prosperous the USA was. I know from them how brutal the Russians can be.
This is an excellent post Elvis. I know you from the Seeking Arrangements forum here. Your posts there are very thoughtful and succinct. Don't take this wrong way, but even when I agree with much of what you say about hypocrisy in Western foreign policy I have a hard time following all of your points. So yeah, the West have been idiots dealing with Russia and still are to some extent.
As far as your statement, "Point is that money matters in war. " This is very, very true. It's also important to note money isn't just represented by dollars, rubles and how much of a commodity like oil a country is pulling out of the ground. Money represents things like technology, industrial capacity, logistics and know-how. These all win wars.
A solider gave a lecture to a class when I was in college in the 1980'sAs far as your "solider's" anecdotes are concerned. I applaud him for service and sacrifice but, with all due respect, this ain't WW-II.
I was in Pecos, Texas in 2018. Oil was not even that much. It ranged from $40 to $60 a barrel then.Your personal anecdotes are even less relevant than those from the WW-II lecture you mentioned. And quoting an exchange between a reporter and a WH press operative, really? If you think that adds credibility to an argument, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Russia is getting economically stronger while the USA is getting weaker, and that is the point.That's your opinion, obviously, but how about some references to back it up? I've posted a SHIT-ton of articles citing how, while Russia can sell oil and gas, they CAN'T use that revenue to buy critical components needed for their war effort. Right now there are reports circulating that Russia is having to scavenge Sony PlayStations to find some of the microchips they need. Is that a sign of a war effort being supported by a robust economy? I think not.
There is going to be fatigue, and Putin is counting on thatMaybe yes, maybe no. You obviously think you can predict the future. I merely observe what's currently happening and try to extrapolate reasonable scenarios from there. As of right now, I don't see fatigue setting in. One prime example of support for Ukraine is today's historic granting of EU candidate status. That's something people would never have predicted even a few short weeks ago.
So you may think I am talking politics but I am actually talking about the war.No, what you're actually talking about is your own individual opinion, which you're certainly entitled to. But you've produced no credible or persuasive evidence to advance your position. BTW, it's the exact same position that some others have expressed (albeit with more concise posts) but, unfortunately for you and the other naysayers, Ukraine continues to confound many so-called experts and exceed expectations.
German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr) head Ingo Gerhartz told the Kiel International Seapower Symposium Germany needs nuclear weapons to use against "Putin". Gerhartz is boasting of the speed with which his Luftwaffe have deployed to Slovakia and Bulgaria and how the Ukrainian AF is using them and their US-Israeli systems to murder Russian speakers.
Der Spiegel Editor Dirk Kurbjuweit published an article directly calling for Germany to have and use nuclear weapons. Kurbjuweit believes Germany was blameless in fomenting World War One and the Jews had it coming to them.
The good news is that, when this round is over, Germany will cease to exist. The only consolation is that, if Latin America survives, those who bear ultimate responsibility, will be hunted down there as well. For me, on a personal level, it won't matter, as I and hundreds of millions of others will know what the Japanese felt like after the American terrorist attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As long as America and its satraps come crushing down as well, it is all good.As long as they continue to follow LilliPutin's trajectory, that death-spiral will continue. Right now they're having to resort to the craziest schemes to try to find soldiers (raise age limits; conscript every male, fit or unfit, in the separatist areas, etc.). Putin can't order mobilization because it would be an admission of failure.
And everyone is spitting in Little Vlad's eye! Kazakhstan, Lithuania, and now Germany! Not only does the "emperor" have no clothes, but now everyone can see what a small dick-army he has. ROTFLMAO!
As for you, who cares? Certainly not anyone in this forum, except maybe for your schmegegge-twin. But, on second thought, (like you) he probably only cares about himself.
P.S. Congratulations to Ukraine on achieving EU candidate status, defying expectations and against all odds!
PedroMorales
06-23-22, 21:08
You poor thing, you can't comprehend. Russia refused to back down and fought the Japanese: win or lose, they fought. A contrast to globohomo that has the balls to take on primitive countries by dropping bombs on them and still can't win a war, so now they use proxies to do their fighting.You replied to confirms me in my belief that no American should be allowed into Europe (or anywhere else) on any pretext. The poor thing, in its ignorance, attacks the Bolsheviks for pulling out of WW1. The pity is that all others did not too and let the top brass get on with it. The Americans, filth that they are, came lately in both wars just to rob what they could.
Hopefully, beginning with the obliteration of Lithuania, the Yanks will get payback for Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and the firebombing of Tokyo, to say nothing of the overdue bills on Vietnam and Korea). The old saying, don't pick up a weapon if you are not prepared to use it, applies to nukes as well. Hopefully, the Yanks like the smell of nuclear mushroom clouds in the morning. Let them wonder if it smells like victory.
You replied to confirms me in my belief that no American should be allowed into Europe (or anywhere else) on any pretext. The poor thing, in its ignorance, attacks the Bolsheviks for pulling out of WW1. The pity is that all others did not too and let the top brass get on with it. The Americans, filth that they are, came lately in both wars just to rob what they could.
Hopefully, beginning with the obliteration of Lithuania, the Yanks will get payback for Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and the firebombing of Tokyo, to say nothing of the overdue bills on Vietnam and Korea). The old saying, don't pick up a weapon if you are not prepared to use it, applies to nukes as well. Hopefully, the Yanks like the smell of nuclear mushroom clouds in the morning. Let them wonder if it smells like victory.Shall we call you a WAAAH-mbulance?
What's truly hilarious is that, no matter how much you post about your Russian propaganda wet-dreams, reality keeps marching merrily along, laughing at you and farting in your face as it passes you by.
This is an excellent post Elvis.This twerp chases down every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike, from Covid to stolen election nonsense. For you to hit your knees is an embarrassment, but hit it Bro, and be sure to swallow the cum when you're finished. What servile wuss.
To begin with, I'm certainly not an expert on nuclear deterrence, but I have lived through the Cold War years, with fallout shelters, duck and cover drills, and all that.
So feel free to correct me if I make any substantially incorrect statements, but it's my understanding that both the US and Russia have enough nuclear capability to obliterate the other. Sure, there might be survivors in remote areas or in hardened shelters, but (if either side desired it) they could destroy pretty much everything that made the other's society viable. I don't know if the terminology has changed, but I recall that being described as Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD).
Also, as I understand it, a significant portion of each side's nuclear arsenal is either mobile (submarine, ship, aircraft) or housed in facilities that would be resistant to being taken out in a first strike. I'm sure there might be other retaliative capabilities, but those are all I need to make my point.
And the point is simply this: Neither side can know with certainty that: a) The other side wouldn't respond; and, b) The other side couldn't respond. They might think the probability is low, or high, or something in between, but they can't know for sure.
So let's assume there are people on both sides who are more hawkish than others. Let's say Russia has some hawks who might be willing to risk launching a first strike. Well, at the moment of launch, it becomes irrelevant how many hawks are on the US side because retaliation becomes a defensive imperative. In other words, the reasons for not launching a first-strike pretty much disappear when you're retaliating against an attacker. And, unless a Russian (or US) hawk can guarantee they can take out each and every nuclear-capable asset of the other, they've essentially condemned both sides to the same fate.
Let's take it one step further. Assume there are some intelligent people in the chain of command on both sides. It's my argument that, for those people, an order to launch a first strike, when your own existence is not being threatened, is the same as an order to kill your own family, hometown, and society. Faced with such an order, why wouldn't the intelligent person refuse to comply? Even if threatened with death, they're dead either way. My personal response would be something like, "If you want to destroy humanity, and our country, I can't stop you. But I'm not going to be the one to do it!" and there's no incentive I can think of that would change that calculus. And this isn't something you can practice. Sure, you can have drills and readiness exercises, but nothing prepares people for the real thing as it's like putting a gun against your own head (and the head of your wife, kids, etc.) AND pulling the trigger when you really want to continue living.
While there's no way to know for sure, there's a huge uncertainty when it comes to the human factor if a first-strike order was to be given. And it's that very uncertainty that is woven throughout the fabric of MAD.
Ah, but what about tactical nukes? There's certainly an argument that can be made about differences there. But what if one tactical nuke is responded to with another, and then a tit-for-tat ensues that leads to escalation and back to the MAD scenario? Once again, uncertainty rears its ugly head.
And isn't uncertainty therefore the fundamental problem that no amount of bravado and chest-thumping (or planning) can overcome? It doesn't matter how big or strong or loud (or clever) someone is, playing Russian Roulette with a gun that has all cylinders full will still have the predictable result. But wait, do we know for sure how many bullets are in the gun? Answer: No, we don't. And there's no way we can know with certainty. Are you still willing to pull that trigger?
I'll close with that, and open the floor to debate. Although I'm sure there will be some who won't be interested in rational debate. But that's to be expected.
You poor thing, you can't comprehend. Russia refused to back down and fought the Japanese: win or lose, they fought. A contrast to globohomo that has the balls to take on primitive countries by dropping bombs on them and still can't win a war, so now they use proxies to do their fighting.Back down from what, you ignoramus? Russia was so confident that Japanese "wouldn't dare" that Nicolas promised to pelt them with Russian hats. Not unlike the current tsar, he tried to raise Russian nationalism by taking on a supposedly weaker opponent. That arrogance eventually ended in a cellar of a private house in Siberia with him and all his family buchered by bolsheviks.
2 Interesting books look back at Ukraine's Past.
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250116253/inthemidstofcivilizedeurope
"Between 1918 and 1921, over a hundred thousand Jews were murdered in Ukraine by peasants, townsmen, and soldiers who blamed the Jews for the turmoil of the Russian Revolution. In hundreds of separate incidents, ordinary people robbed their Jewish neighbors with impunity, burned down their houses, ripped apart their Torah scrolls, sexually assaulted them, and killed them. Largely forgotten today, these pogromsethnic riotsdominated headlines and international affairs in their time. Aid workers warned that six million Jews were in danger of complete extermination. Twenty years later, these dire predictions would come true.
Drawing upon long-neglected archival materials, including thousands of newly discovered witness testimonies, trial records, and official orders, acclaimed historian Jeffrey Veidlinger shows for the first time how this wave of genocidal violence created the conditions for the Holocaust".
The other Historian https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewashing-ukraines-past-volodymyr-viatrovych/.
The Historian Whitewashing Ukraine's Past.
Volodymyr Viatrovych is erasing the country's racist and bloody history stripping pogroms and ethnic cleansing from the official archives.
There you have it, both sides of the History of Ukraine.
In the meantime in Israel "This week, the veteran right-wing journalist Andrew Neil tweeted "Israel fails to stand up for Ukraine. Reluctant to impose sanctions Stayed silent after Russian airstrike near Babi Yar memorial, where German Nazis killed tens of thousands of Jews in WW2". https://inews.co.uk/opinion/israel-failing-ukraine-welcoming-putins-friends-actions-cannot-be-ignored-.So their ancestors did some truly shitty things 100 years ago. Let me give you a hand here. It wasn't the first time. Bogdan Khmelnitsky and his hordes massacred Jews as far back as in 16th century.
And Ukrainians did it again during the WW2.
So your point being is what? That they deserve what's coming to them now, in 2022?
What's your take on today's Germany?
First things First, I am a fucking monger not a Political Analyst or Military Expert. Found my way to this thread as there's Fuck All Mongering in Ukraine following Putin's Invasion.
Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.
I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.
A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.
And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .
What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/finally-german-mps-back-heavy-weapons-for-ukraine-in-historic-vote
So what's your take on Israel's refusal to apply sanctions against Russia??
Here's what some commentators in Israel are saying "The prime minister's 'neutrality' in the Russian war against Ukraine is outrageous" https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-703432.
And Zelensky who also has family in Israel singled out Israel. . https://www.jta.org/2022/06/23/global/zelensky-singles-out-israel-for-refusing-to-join-international-sanctions-against-russia.
Elvis 2008
06-24-22, 17:05
LOL. You do not get it. The American POW knew Germany had lost the war because they had no money. That is just as applicable today as then.
Here are the facts. Oil has gone up in price since the invasion. The Russian ruble is stronger than it was before the invasion, and Russia is exporting as much oil as before the invasion. A press release came out and said that USA oil production was the highest ever under the Biden administration. That is a good sign right? Uh, no, peak production was 12.9 million BPD under Trump and is 11.5 now. Under the Biden administration, that amount of oil produced is the most that has been produced. It is not the most the USA has ever produced. Cute eh?
Matt Taibbi is one writer I trust who worked in Russia in the 90's. He thought Putin was a tin pot brutal dictator long before anyone else. Back then, when he tried to write articles about how Russia was recirculating its dictators, no one would publish the article. If he wrote an article about how well Democracy was working in Russia, everyone would publish it. Point is I do not expect any press articles about the sanctions in the Western Press except saying how great they are working. I saw a pictorial / video of the McDonald's being re-opened in Russia under a new name in the WSJ, and it does not look like the Russians are hurting exactly because of the sanctions.
Fentanyl is illegal in the USA, and China has a history of making it and the government said they would crack down on said production, yet it is still being sold, and USA deaths from it have never been higher. What critical components these days are not made or could not be made in China? And do you think China is really not going to sell the Russians what they need? Chips are not a good example because they are in short supply everywhere.
EU Candidate status? Really? That sounds meaningless. I am reading stuff like this.
Biden said he "knew we had data to sustain" that Russian President Vladimir Putin "was going to go in, off the border."
"There was no doubt, and Zelensky didn't want to hear it, nor did a lot of people," Biden said, according to Bloomberg. "I understand why they didn't want to hear it, but Putin went in."
Ukrainian officials, however, rejected Biden's account.
End of quote. That sounds like typical pol finger pointing when things are not going well.
As for my POV, my question is where? Show me anyone who said you win the war in Ukraine by drilling for more oil in Texas? If America produces more oil and the price goes down, we have more money and Russia has less. That is a much more effective way to hurt Russia than sanctions.
I do not know enough about what is really going on in the negotiations to have an opinion on if there is a realistic settlement offer on the table to stop but my preference would be the war stop ASAP. I think Ukraine winning this war as some pols have said is not realistic. My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have. My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.
PedroMorales
06-24-22, 18:21
If you read David Ben Gurion's (real name of Israel's founder is David Grün) autobiography, you will see the founder of Israel, a war criminal by any definition, stating it was he and his fellow Jewish thugs who attacked Poles in an area with no anti-Semitism. The founders of Israel's (Mandate Palestine's) Irgun had 30,000+ armies of Jewish fascists in pre war Poland. Their leaders were trained by Mussolini's Italy.
Get your facts on Israel some way right. The 1st Galician SS, drawn from Western Ukraine, were so bloody in killing Jews they shocked the SS.
As did the Croats, whom you praise. They slaughtered the Serbs. The same Serbs. Your USAF bombed relentlessly for months on end.
You are ignorant on all that as you draw your sources from the Atlantic and similar tainted sites. You and it are part of the reason no American should be allowed in Europe, except as an exhibit in a zoo.
As regards the monkey Zelensky who plays the piano with his penis, his shelf life shortens by the day as the heroic Russian forces make further advances. English folk are at the Glastonbury Music Festival June 22-26. Instead of music, they have to listen to that idiot. Then they wonder why no minority groups go there.
I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.
A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.
And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .
What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/finally-german-mps-back-heavy-weapons-for-ukraine-in-historic-vote.
First things First, I am a fucking monger not a Political Analyst or Military Expert. Found my way to this thread as there's Fuck All Mongering in Ukraine following Putin's Invasion.
Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.
I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.Well, now you know. There are no innocents when it comes to atrocities against Jews in Eastern Europe. In almost every country occupied by the Nazis during the WW2, the local population was more than happy to join in on the fun. Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Russia, you name it.
The question is if your history lessons are applicable to contemporary Ukraine.
The answer any sane person would come up with IMHO. No, they aren't. Today's Ukrainians have nothing to do with it.
A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.
And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .Well, I would take an issue with "vast majority" but yes, a lot of Poles remain deeply anti-Semitic. Ukraine also used to be very anti-Semitic during the Soviet times, but times have changed. 73% Ukrainians did vote for a Jewish President. That accounts for something. Hey, you don't have to be a Pole or Ukrainian to be a vicious anti-Semite. Look at our own Merdo Immorales, what else do you need?
What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.It has everything to do with Germany. If you believe that Ukrainians must be held responsible for the atrocities committed 80-100 years ago, then how come you don't treat today's Germans with the same contempt? They did murder 6 million Jews after all.
So my question is DO YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE that Ukraine must be held responsible for something that happened back then.
So what's your take on Israel's refusal to apply sanctions against Russia??Israel is in a difficult position. It's a tiny nation completely surrounded by enemies. Russia has troops stationed in Syria, and it could make life incredibly difficult to Israel. And not in terms of gas prices, mind you, but the blood of Israeli citizens. If there is one country on Earth that has legitimate reasons to avoid being pulled into this conflict, that's Israel.
My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have.Uh, yeah. I've picked the side who are having their country invaded, their civilians killed, their women raped, and their children kidnapped and sent to Russia. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Hope you're nice and comfy in your La-Z-Boy as it seems your morality meter is apparently immune to such atrocities. And I'd point out that "atrocities" isn't my own personal assessment, but rather the consensus of many human rights organizations and a host of nations that have already gone on record as calling Russia's actions genocide.
https://www.justsecurity.org/81564/compilation-of-countries-statements-calling-Russian-actions-in-Ukraine-genocide/
If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.
My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.And my counter-point is that ALL you've offered is purely PERSONAL opinion, nothing more. Period. Are you a military expert? Are you referencing the analyses of any credible experts? All I've seen is a 40+ year old anecdote from a WW-II vet which, in your OPINION, is the key to understanding the current conflict. There's so much wrong with that pseudo-argument that it boggles the mind.
But, as I responded to your earlier mindlessly meandering post (the one without the fentanyl and Matt Taibi references), you're perfectly entitled to your own OPINION, as is every other poster in this forum. What you're not entitled to, and what I'll call you out on every time, is pretending that it's anything else.
BTW, I would also like the war to stop ASAP. I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.
Same goal, different opinion about how to get there.
Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.
I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.
A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.
In fairness to the Poles, as their lands were designated as primary part of the Pale of Settlement, they were forced into closest proximity of these people, and while they endured the sufferance inflicted upon them, a peoples' forebearance and rectitude could only be expected to go so far.
As for Ukrainians, missing from the current conversation is any mention of the Hiwis. How in the world could the nazis have managed the camps without their indispensable Ukrainian helpers? Many of whom post-war resettled to Canada or became industrial workers in Ohio. Given that a number of the mercenary freedom fighters in Ukraine currently hail from Canada you can readily imagine what wonderful stories from their grandparents they grew up on.
A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.
No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!
Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.
There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.
Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.
As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.
https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-politics/religious-extremism-is-a-greater-threat-than-nuclear-iran
And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.
Sowing the seeds for more conflicts https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-03-27/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israeli-settlers-grim-offer-to-ukraines-jewish-refugees/00000180-5ba2-dc66-a392-7ffb49550000.
A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.
No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!
Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.
There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.
Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.
As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.
https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-politics/religious-extremism-is-a-greater-threat-than-nuclear-iran
And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.
Sowing the seeds for more conflicts https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-03-27/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israeli-settlers-grim-offer-to-ukraines-jewish-refugees/00000180-5ba2-dc66-a392-7ffb49550000.The links to David Fisher and his Film The Round Number. " David Fisher was born to Joseph Fischer (born in Romania) and Mali (born in Ukraine), both Holocaust survivors".
https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-new-israeli-film-tackles-the-taboo-did-six-million-jews-die-in-the-holocaust/
Elvis 2008
06-25-22, 22:07
Uh, yeah. I've picked the side who are having their country invaded, their civilians killed, their women raped, and their children kidnapped and sent to Russia. Seems like a no-brainer to me.Yeah, the good guy-bad guy narrative is too easy for me. Usually when there is a fight both parties could have stopped it, but your story prompted me to go look at what the Russian side was so thank you for that.
Hope you're nice and comfy in your La-Z-Boy as it seems your morality meter is apparently immune to such atrocities. And I'd point out that "atrocities" isn't my own personal assessment, but rather the consensus of many human rights organizations and a host of nations that have already gone on record as calling Russia's actions genocide.I am more of a couch guy and am comfortable as can be. Sorry, my morality meter does not kick in unless the good guys are being killed and I am not sure there are any good guys yet. Are these the same "experts" who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation or was a new crew employed this time to say how awful Putin was?
If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.Helpless little old lady? Nah, it turns out Biden and the Ukrainians were not as helpless and innocent as that. Later on, you asked a question if I am a military expert? And I am not. That ranks us up there with having to be a biologist to know what a woman is, but it shows the point. If I am on your side, then I can be anything, but if I am neutral based on a lack of understanding of both sides, well that ranks up there with being a stupid coward.
You should know both sides of the conflict: give me both sides perspective and then say why yours is right. Instead, you went with name calling and shaming. That tells me there are issues with your POV you do not want to talk about.
All I've seen is a 40+ year old anecdote from a WW-II vet which, in your OPINION, is the key to understanding the current conflict. There's so much wrong with that pseudo-argument that it boggles the mind.Sorry, guy, you are just making stuff up. If you want me to go to war, you have to show me you are all in. I am not going to war when our government has policies that enrich the enemy shooting at me Fuck that. With Biden putting climate change above oil production and enriching Putin and hurting us, you lost me. That you acted hostile when I said that made it doubly bad.
The USA has a great history when it goes all in on a war. When it goes in half ass, trouble always follows. If you had said during World War 2, you did not want companies drilling for oil because of what it does to the planet, you would have gotten your ass kicked. The entire notion that Putin is bad but climate change is worse tells me this is not a real war where our way of life is threatened, not at all.
I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.
Yeah, you lost me there. If you feel that way, you should get out of your Lazy-Boy, pick up a gun and go fight. You think war is like going to a UFC fight where you cheer on your favorite.
PedroMorales
06-25-22, 22:14
Russia is giving Belarus Iskander-M missiles capable of carrying nuclear loads. Unless Lithuania surrenders the Suwalki Gap, Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.
Romania, like Finland and Sweden, have learned before it is too late.
The British and Americans are driving all this madness. If it takes nuclear weapons to stop it, fair enough. Little Baltic and Polish monkeys must pay, as must their organ grinders. A pity it has come to this but fuck it all, enough is enough.
Russia has a no first strike priviso. Rusaisa should renounce that. Or just get on with it and wipe the Baltics and Poland off the face of the earth as opening salvos.
This article is from the WSJ, which is usually paywalled. But this link is from the author's Twitter feed and should give you a readable version. When I opened it on my phone, I got a couple of "subscribe now" boxes but I was able to close them and keep reading.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-far-do-putins-imperial-ambitions-go-11656085978?st=p5px4obeu0ixbgv&reflink=share_mobilewebshare
Here are some quotes:
"At a ceremony honoring young geographers in 2016, President Vladimir Putin asked one boy about the capital of Burkina Faso and then quizzed another about where Russia's borders end. At the Bering Strait with the United States," the 9-year-old boy ventured hesitantly. Mr. Putin, who chairs the board of the Russian Geographic Society, contradicted the boy to triumphant applause. "The borders of Russia," he pronounced, "never end".
"Earlier this month, Mr. Putin said that he views Ukraine as just the first step, with many other territories potential targets".
The article then raises the possibility that Putin, rather than lowering his ambitions because of his military's underperformance in Ukraine, might be motivated to double down on his aggression.
"Yet it is precisely the embarrassing setbacks in Ukraine that may push Mr. Putin to expand the conflict, cautioned Marat Gelman, an opposition politician who once advised the Russian president and served as a senior executive for Russian state TV. "There is a threat to his ratings inside the country. He cannot explain to Russian citizens why the great army that he has been expanding and financing all this time cannot deal with the Ukrainian resistance," Mr. Gelman said. "So he needs to turn everything into a new dimension, where he is at war not with Ukraine but with the entire world. Therefore, there is a danger that he will choose another victim. " A broader conflict, Mr. Gelman said, could justify mobilizing civilians into the military and removing the few civil liberties that still exist in Russia".
"Putin's imperial ambitions have grown over time because his previous acts of territorial aggression went largely unchallenged. The 2008 invasion of Georgia wasn't sanctioned in any serious way and was followed by President Barack Obama's attempt at a "reset" with Moscow. The 2014 intervention in Donbas and annexation of Crimea during Mr. Obama's second term prompted only halfhearted sanctions. Until last February, Germany pushed the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project that would have allowed Russia's gas exports to bypass Ukraine. Up until April, the USA And its allies refused to provide Kyiv with the heavy weapons that could have deterred this year's war".
"Putin simply does what he can get away with, like a hooligan," said Mikhail Kasyanov, a Russian opposition politician who served as Mr. Putin's prime minister from 2000 to 2004. "If he is allowed to conquer some territories and Europe and the USA End up swallowing that fact, he will simply keep going forward".
There's more in the article, like discussions of Russia's history of brutal conquests, but hopefully the above quotes convey the gist of the argument.
One point this reinforces for me is that any peace proposal that doesn't take into account Putin's own statements of intent (along with the hardliners in Russia), and his past record of false peace phase, followed by a pause, followed by a new aggression phase, is fatally flawed.
My personal conclusion: While the most effective method of defeating it is certainly open to debate, Putin-perialism must absolutely be defeated in order for any meaningful peace to be achieved.
Elvis 2008
06-25-22, 22:16
I am not siding with either Ukraine or Russia, but it is pretty clear that the Western media has put together the innocent Ukrainians and evil Russians / Putin narrative. I had used google to look for an explanation and was frustrated. I realized that search engine was the problem and once I used a new one, I got the link below. Again, I am not sure how much of this is truth and how much is propaganda. What I do know is anyone who has even attempted to justify Russia's invasion has had their microphone taken away. I will say after Ukrainegate and Russiagate I was very suspicious that Putin was provoked into action. It does not justify what he did but the claims of innocence are hard to buy. IMO it is very rare a fight like this happens between a good and bad guy. It is typically more like between two bad guys.
https://mronline.org/2022/06/23/is-the-west-finally-realizing-that-russia-will-win-the-war-in-ukraine/
This article is the fourth in a series of articles I have written covering the US proxy war against Russia in Ukraine. While this civil war in Ukraine actually began 8 years ago in 2014, the Western media narrative has portrayed this conflict as an unprovoked invasion by Russia that began on February 24,2022. The 8 year civil war in the Donbass Region is a direct result of the US backed coup and color revolution known as the Maidan Revolution, that ousted the democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych and installed an ultra-nationalist, anti-Russian, Nazi government.
The coup government was rejected by the majority ethnic Russian population in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine, who had supported Yanukovych. The result was protests throughout eastern Ukraine and Odessa in the south. The Russian speaking population understood that they would experience harsh persecution under the new, anti-Russian government. On May 2, 2014 in Odessa, protesters took refuge in the Odessa Trade Union Hall trying to escape the attacks of Neo-Nazi vigilantes, who then set the building on fire. Forty-eight protesters were either burned alive or died jumping out of the building. No one was ever prosecuted for the Odessa Massacre.
Crimea voted to secede and was annexed into Russia. Donetsk and Lugansk became breakaway provinces thus leaving Ukraine, but were soon invaded by Ukrainian Nazis who refused to give up the region. Western media rarely acknowledged the huge civilian death toll in eastern Ukraine.
Minsk 1 (September 5, 2014) and Minsk 2 (February 12,2015) Peace Agreements contained a ceasefire and were ratified by the United Nations with Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France as signers. The agreement called for the breakaway provinces to be reabsorbed into Ukraine, but receive regional autonomy which essentially meant the right to use the Russian language. The 2014 coup government outlawed the use of the Russian language in media and schools. For the agreement to be finalized it required that the leaders of the Ukrainian government had to negotiate the terms with the leaders of Donetsk and Lugansk. Negotiations never happened, nor was the ceasefire even honored by Nazi paramilitaries. On February 13,2015, Minsk 2 was immediately rejected by the Right Sector leader, Dimitri Yarosh, who vowed to keep fighting. The rocket shellings of the Donbass by Nazis continued for almost 8 years resulting in 14,000 mostly civilian deaths.
The United States had endorsed the Minsk Agreements and Obama was reluctant to supply Ukraine with weapons. This changed under Trump who was convinced to sell arms to Ukraine to prove he wasn't Putin's puppet. Zelensky was elected in 2019 by 73% of Ukrainians because he ran as the peace candidate, stating that he would implement Minsk 2. US media hardly acknowledged this fact, and focused on Trump's phone call to Zelensky regarding investigating Hunter Biden and Burisma, after he temporarily withheld a weapons shipment to Ukraine. Zelensky received death threats, over his goal to implement the Minsk agreement, in an interview with the Right Sector (a Nazi Party) leader, Dimitri Yarosh, who said "he will hang on some tree on Khreshchatyk if he betrays Ukraine and those people who died in the Revolution and the War. " Zelensky was powerless to achieve the goal of peace without strong backing from the United States, which instead was more interested in arming and training a proxy force to fight Russia.
The Biden Administration took things to new level in 2021 by sending more weapons and giving special forces training to Ukrainian Nazi paramilitaries. In April 2021, Zelensky said he was not going to honor the Minsk 2 Agreement and was planning to retake the breakaway regions and Crimea by force. The US created this war by preparing Ukrainian forces for the invasion.
OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) reports show ceasefire violations, the majority by Ukrainian forces, increased from 57 on February 14,2022 to 1,927 on February 21,2022. It was an invasion by Ukraine on Donetsk and Lugansk that caused Russia to intervene on February 24,2022. Putin described it as a "peacekeeping mission. " Certainly the people and soldiers of the DPR and LPR were glad the Russians finally intervened. Over 150,000 Ukrainian troops were lined up west of the line of contact, about to fight 31,000 mostly volunteer soldiers of the DPR and LPR. It would have been a genocide had Russia not intervened. Russia had multiple reasons to finally intervene, including protecting Crimea and preventing Ukraine from joining NATO, which would have led to nuclear missile bases on its borders.
MamaGuevos
06-26-22, 00:54
I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.
The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.
I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.
The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.This thread has been hijacked by a real ASSet.
Yeah, the good guy-bad guy narrative is too easy for me.Yeah, looks like that's your problem with a lot of things. I guess it doesn't bother you that the ONLY people in the world who would even think to characterize the Russians as having any shred of justification are the propaganda mongers themselves and the trolls who parrot their BS. Which one are you?
Sorry, my morality meter does not kick inYes, with this post you've made it abundantly clear that you have none.
Are these the same "experts" who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformationWow, you really are the master of the non sequitur, aren't you? Since you're asking, maybe these are the experts who gave fentanyl to Matt Taibbi, since your earlier posts demonstrated your bizarre infatuation with such irrelevancies.
With Biden putting climate change above oil production and enriching Putin and hurting us, you lost me.Yeah, I think you were lost a long time ago. But I bet you'd kill it over in the American Politics thread, since you and Pedro M are basically two sides of the same inane coin.
You think war is like going to a UFC fight where you cheer on your favorite.No, I think war is like war, with people killing and being killed. And, while it's not always possible to discern the good from the bad, sometimes it's quite easy. For example, on September 1st, 1939, Hitler invaded Poland. The US had no problem recognizing who the bad guy was because naked aggression made it clear. And the US, even with the existence of Neutrality Acts passed in the 1930's, figured out ways to help. We didn't go to war ourselves until Pearl Harbor, but we were already involved by virtue of our support. Had we not given it, we'd probably all be speaking German right now.
BTW, nowhere have I EVER suggested the US needs to, or should, be directly involved in the conflict. The Ukrainians are doing quite well. They just need the continuing support of countries that, unlike you, have figured out that Putin is the bad guy here. If you like him so much, feel free to move to Russia and let us know how that works out for you.
Russia is giving Belarus Iskander-M missiles capable of carrying nuclear loads. Unless Lithuania surrenders the Suwalki Gap, Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.
Romania, like Finland and Sweden, have learned before it is too late.
The British and Americans are driving all this madness. If it takes nuclear weapons to stop it, fair enough. Little Baltic and Polish monkeys must pay, as must their organ grinders. A pity it has come to this but fuck it all, enough is enough.
Russia has a no first strike priviso. Russia should renounce that. Or just get on with it and wipe the Baltics and Poland off the face of the earth as opening salvos.http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2712127&viewfull=1#post2712127
Which is, very simply, that there is no way to know with certainty that any use of nukes could be contained. Any strike would provoke a response. And sub-launched nukes (to name just one platform) would be difficult or impossible to defend against.
A couple for Moscow, a couple for St. Petersburg, one for Vladivostok, a few others here and there, and Russia would be a stone-age skating rink.
And that means, if Putin follows your advice, you and everyone you know might be dead or, if unfortunate enough to survive, as good as dead.
But that's fine, I'd expect as much from a pathetic schmegegge-troll.
I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.
The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.And that's because this is where all the Stupid Shit that may not be directly mongering-related ends up. If you're looking for specific hooker recommendations, you're in the wrong place and should check out the specific city threads instead.
Also, it's a bit odd that you're so quick to criticize political discussions yet, in the same post, you have no problem talking about anti-Semitism and Jewish presidents. I would respectfully suggest that's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?
This article is from the WSJ, which is usually paywalled. But this link is from the author's Twitter feed and should give you a readable version. When I opened it on my phone, I got a couple of "subscribe now" boxes but I was able to close them and keep reading.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-far-do-putins-imperial-ambitions-go-11656085978?st=p5px4obeu0ixbgv&reflink=share_mobilewebshare
Here are some quotes:
"At a ceremony honoring young geographers in 2016, President Vladimir Putin asked one boy about the capital of Burkina Faso and then quizzed another about where Russia's borders end. At the Bering Strait with the United States," the 9-year-old boy ventured hesitantly. Mr. Putin, who chairs the board of the Russian Geographic Society, contradicted the boy to triumphant applause. "The borders of Russia," he pronounced, "never end".
"Earlier this month, Mr. Putin said that he views Ukraine as just the first step, with many other territories potential targets".
The article then raises the possibility that Putin, rather than lowering his ambitions because of his military's underperformance in Ukraine, might be motivated to double down on his aggression.
"Yet it is precisely the embarrassing setbacks in Ukraine that may push Mr. Putin to expand the conflict, cautioned Marat Gelman, an opposition politician who once advised the Russian president and served as a senior executive for Russian state TV. "There is a threat to his ratings inside the country. He cannot explain to Russian citizens why the great army that he has been expanding and financing all this time cannot deal with the Ukrainian resistance," Mr. Gelman said. "So he needs to turn everything into a new dimension, where he is at war not with Ukraine but with the entire world. Therefore, there is a danger that he will choose another victim. " A broader conflict, Mr. Gelman said, could justify mobilizing civilians into the military and removing the few civil liberties that still exist in Russia".
"Putin's imperial ambitions have grown over time because his previous acts of territorial aggression went largely unchallenged. The 2008 invasion of Georgia wasn't sanctioned in any serious way and was followed by President Barack Obama's attempt at a "reset" with Moscow. The 2014 intervention in Donbas and annexation of Crimea during Mr. Obama's second term prompted only halfhearted sanctions. Until last February, Germany pushed the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project that would have allowed Russia's gas exports to bypass Ukraine. Up until April, the USA And its allies refused to provide Kyiv with the heavy weapons that could have deterred this year's war".
"Putin simply does what he can get away with, like a hooligan," said Mikhail Kasyanov, a Russian opposition politician who served as Mr. Putin's prime minister from 2000 to 2004. "If he is allowed to conquer some territories and Europe and the USA End up swallowing that fact, he will simply keep going forward".
There's more in the article, like discussions of Russia's history of brutal conquests, but hopefully the above quotes convey the gist of the argument.
One point this reinforces for me is that any peace proposal that doesn't take into account Putin's own statements of intent (along with the hardliners in Russia), and his past record of false peace phase, followed by a pause, followed by a new aggression phase, is fatally flawed.
My personal conclusion: While the most effective method of defeating it is certainly open to debate, Putin-perialism must absolutely be defeated in order for any meaningful peace to be achieved.Russia may win the battle, but Putin has already lost the war.
Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.Pedro should be banned permanently.
And Morales too if he doesn't STFU.
DramaFree11
06-26-22, 03:27
Russia may win the battle, but Putin has already lost the war.Nope, at $5-7 a gallon Putin is winning. As usual Ukraine will lose because of corruption and greed. They were winning, but there leadership was too stupid to make a deal.
PedroMorales
06-26-22, 08:05
Stop reading the NYT and WP for a start. There are alternative American sources available but you have to dig for them.
Almost all Americans posting here are semi literate low life with no sense of self. Look at the American Politics thread which is as incoherent as POTUS Biden and as incontinent as his ass. They do serve the purpose of tel; ling us most American mongers / tourists should be avoided.
The moderator's problem is where to allow all the American crazies shoot off without jamming up the site overall. The Crazy Shit threads help him a lot in that regard but it is really pushing shit uphill.
As regards sexual services, folk have bigger things afoot now. Though many women now have to do what women have to do, there are all kinds of extra risks involved.
That said, there is a famous account of a Japanese banker in Germany in Weimar of the hyper inflation. Sex for (inflation adjusted) pennies / pfennig.
The Ukrainian gangsters are being kept artificially afloat by massive EU / US suibventions. When that ends and Zelenskystan is a Bosnian style rump state, you will get all the sex you like from the surviving Nazis for pennies.
If you don't mind getting in line behind the Germans who are suffering a lot as they have no seasonal Ukrainian workers to pick their fruits and vegetables.
Give the EU the far side of winter and there will be plenty of cheap picking all across it, if you don't mind nuclear fall out, that is.
I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.
The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.
PedroMorales
06-26-22, 11:00
Is only about 35 km, well within artillery range. Though the A4 could accommodate Russian heavy equipment, there are some low lying hills that would make a good defensive position of sorts. All in all, liberating Lithuania. Again - would be little more than a field exercise.
Either way, Lithuania's goose is cooked and the Polish paupers will be next.
Awful what horrible things happen to people who listen to American propaganda.
The bigger game is that America and its British messenger boy must be destroyed. The only other alternative is for France, Germany, Italy and Romania to get rid of their autocrats, tell Zelensky to go fuck himself in Israel and try to build Europe anew.
I don't know what America, Epstein etc have on the French, Germans etc but it must be some seriously sick shit. Vilnius is easy. They just want to make money by pimping their young boys out to American GIs. But the others, God knows.
Is only about 35 km, well within artillery range. Though the A4 could accommodate Russian heavy equipment, there are some low lying hills that would make a good defensive position of sorts. All in all, liberating Lithuania. Again - would be little more than a field exercise.
Either way, Lithuania's goose is cooked and the Polish paupers will be next.
Awful what horrible things happen to people who listen to American propaganda.
The bigger game is that America and its British messenger boy must be destroyed. The only other alternative is for France, Germany, Italy and Romania to get rid of their autocrats, tell Zelensky to go fuck himself in Israel and try to build Europe anew.
I don't know what America, Epstein etc have on the French, Germans etc but it must be some seriously sick shit. Vilnius is easy. They just want to make money by pimping their young boys out to American GIs. But the others, God knows.It does not look like any of the crap you post is getting any attention. Are you being paid in rubles for posting here?
John Clayton
06-26-22, 16:34
...Either way, Lithuania's goose is cooked and the Polish paupers will be next...I think there should be a CAPTCHA test to prevent this account from posting on this forum.
PedroMorales
06-26-22, 18:43
Pedro, can you disclose a little bit about yourself? Like approximate age, citizenship. I am just trying to get an idea where ideas like yours are popular.Take the population of the world. Subtract brain dead Americans and those on America's payroll. I represent the rest. Go back to America's genocide campaign of shock and awe in Iraq. Remember the fake marches against it. (being American I am sure you don't remember the 1 million dead Iraqi children and the many others American and Ukrainian troops raped).
Many people don't buy America's repetitive bullshit.
I note you go on about small dicked Russians, a typical American and G7 obsession. Did you consult this?: https://www.worlddata.info/average-penissize.php.
Though Cambodia (where the US slaughtered all round them and then helped the Khmer Rouge fight the Vietnamese) ranks lowest, Isaan women told me small but strong. Your compatriots would be better placed to fill you in on dicks as that turns them on.
Your power is crumbling. I am not here for debate as one cannot debate pigs. Just look at the other Stupid Shit but especially American Politics thread. Rambling nonsense.
The good news?: Russian High Command again hinting at heavy action in Lithuania. Kaliningrad, BTW, is nuked up to the hilt.
Me? I am getting my affairs in order for whoever might survive what is coming. One thing is sure: Lithuania is burned toast.
Russia may win the battle, but Putin has already lost the war.The WSJ article I cited was about Putin's imperial ambitions, which is why any notion that the current conflict is only limited to Ukraine is naive and shortsighted.
I agree with the part of your post about Putin having already lost the war. But, with respect to Russia winning the battle, I would assert that the jury is still out on that. Also, the subject line of your post is a bit confusing to me, since it seems to be at odds with what you wrote in the body of your post.
Nope, at $5-7 a gallon Putin is winning. As usual Ukraine will lose because of corruption and greed. They were winning, but there leadership was too stupid to make a deal.Because, as I've demonstrated numerous times, you hide behind a cowardly pretense at even-handedness, yet your every comment or proposed solution is pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine.
You should at least have the balls to admit the truth. And, for any who are new to this thread, I invite them to view your posting history as it provides ample evidence about your bias.
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/25/ukraine-says-russia-aiming-to-drag-belarus-into-war-after-strikes-a78105
I've seen reports that Putin is very unhappy with Lukashenko as he (Putin) wants Belarus to be more engaged in the war against Ukraine. Lukashenko has so far avoided direct involvement by his forces, but the recent meeting between the two leaders may be part of an ongoing effort to pressure Lukashenko. That's worth watching for any developments that go beyond window-dressed "feel good" pronouncements.
Also, it's important not to overlook or underestimate Lukashenko. He's a savvy political operative and has a long carrot-and-stick relationship with Russia. It's my opinion that he might be trying to maneuver himself into a position where he could be seen as a possible successor to Putin. Here's a thread that gives an in-depth look at Lunashenko's personal history:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1518240030967406593.html
Me? I am getting my affairs in order for whoever might survive what is coming. One thing is sure: Lithuania is burned toast.Hopefully karma will visit all your hateful bile back upon your own head. Can't happen soon enough.
Then, when the nuke turns you into troll-dust, you can share the Circle of Hell that's already been prepared for Little Vlad.
DramaFree11
06-26-22, 22:50
Because, as I've demonstrated numerous times, you hide behind a cowardly pretense at even-handedness, yet your every comment or proposed solution is pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine.
You should at least have the balls to admit the truth. And, for any who are new to this thread, I invite them to view your posting history as it provides ample evidence about your bias.I will say it again, I can careless who wins. Find a solution, but, yes. One country actually was functioning and contributing. That is Russia, not Ukraine, Take away Putin and it is a great place. Ukraine was a mess, filled with corruption. You guys refuse to recognize, just how corrupt Ukraine is and was. Ask the millions that fled over the last 10-15 years, because of the corruption. The reason they left is because they had almost zero chance for a normal life or even better life in Ukraine, they had no future, because of the greed and a terrible government. Ask yourself why everyone has been leaving the county, and this has been going on for over 10 years and has nothing to do with the war, but you ignore the obvious.
I can careless what you think. This war is ruining economies and is going to cause major collateral damage.
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