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Akibono
10-08-20, 02:37
Akibono,

We are all here to help each other and share our experiences sir. I don't understand what you mean in your last comment? Are you asking for city details instead of naming the general country?We would like to know your experience with SA girls in various cities and what they are asking for allowances or ppm. There is very little information what the market rates for SBs in various cities.

WyattEarp
10-08-20, 14:57
I myself have not jumped into the SA pool. However after following this thread and other forums on the topic, it seems to me the process is one long negotiation. That's fine. It closely parallels the experiences of actual dating.

You meet an attractive girl. You try to interest her. She determines if you are offering enough to keep her interested in you. Even after you think you hit it off and you get her phone number, she might not respond. Then there's the date or dates. If you are lucky enough to wind up at your place or her place, the girl might play hard to get and you have to go through a long seduction. Much like what Steve is referring to as Japanese Nanpa.

In the MeToo world this all might now seem odd. A girl just wants to kiss and you really want to fuck. Seriously, you're going to seduce her into having sex?? Yes, exactly. She never says no. She moves your hand away from her body while still locking lips. Or she says it's late and that she really needs to go home, but she never actually moves to get up.

Remember those dates. Some girls would simply let you touch them and undress them. They were the ready and willing. Other girls wanted to play good girl and make you work for it. How bad do you want it? Haha. Sometimes you had to get the girl physically worked up to the point where she could no longer resist.

When a date finally culminated in sex, it was very satisfying beyond just the actual act. I think from what I read here this is what many men enjoy about SA. The hunt is part of the enjoyment.

Steve 9696
10-08-20, 18:25
I myself have not jumped into the SA pool. However after following this thread and other forums on the topic, it seems to me the process is one long negotiation. That's fine. It closely parallels the experiences of actual dating.

You meet an attractive girl. You try to interest her. She determines if you are offering enough to keep her interested in you. Even after you think you hit it off and you get her phone number, she might not respond. Then there's the date or dates. If you are lucky enough to wind up at your place or her place, the girl might play hard to get and you have to go through a long seduction. Much like what Steve is referring to as Japanese Nanpa.

In the MeToo world this all might now seem odd. A girl just wants to kiss and you really want to fuck. Seriously, you're going to seduce her into having sex?? Yes, exactly. She never says no. She moves your hand away from her body while still locking lips. Or she says it's late and that she really needs to go home, but she never actually moves to get up.

Remember those dates. Some girls would simply let you touch them and undress them. They were the ready and willing. Other girls wanted to play good girl and make you work for it. How bad do you want it? Haha. Sometimes you had to get the girl physically worked up to the point where she could no longer resist.

When a date finally culminated in sex, it was very satisfying beyond just the actual act. I think from what I read here this is what many men enjoy about SA. The hunt is part of the enjoyment.Exactly. I would say with proper warm up drinks and the right conversation by text ahead of time most girls are Down to Fuck (DTF) but it can vary widely. On my Vegas trip my three girls ran the gamut from:

1. DTF. Had a teddy in her purse she put on when taking a pee.

2. Sorta DTF. Needed some drinks and kissing to get warmed up.

3. NOT DTF. Literally said "I can't have sex with a guy I just met".

Of these girls, number 1 was the most fun and I repeated with - total wildcat. Number 2 was a lot of fun and I repeated with. And number 3 was a straight up adventure and enjoyable because of the conquest. Here's how that one went down:

Remember, SA girls are not hookers -- at least the ones I want to be with. There is a certain amount of game required -- both text game and in-person game. And, since I've had a couple civvy (unpaid) dates that were sex-fails, using my 30 year old pickup game (LOL), I've been reading up on Nampa -- Japanese Street Pickup Game. And I've learned some good stuff which I ended up using particularly with Jesse. Here are some terms you need to know:

Escalating / Kino. Light touching and kissing during the date to establish how receptive she is. I do this naturally anyhow.

Bounce. Take the girl from one location to another, particularly one where you can be close together. And when you bounce to the hotel don't make a big deal about it. Don't discuss. Don't ask. Just go there.

Push and Pull -- When you go for a kiss or a feel and she resists. Just brush it off. Change the subject. Try again in a bit. It will go farther. Eventually you can get her worked up and do the deed.

Persistence -- Don't be deterred if you get shot down. Just take a detour and try again. This concept was so foreign to me. You'd be amazed at the guys that go for a kiss, get shot down three times and end up fucking a half hour later after repeated push pull! WTF? Really. Yep.

LMR. Last minute resistance. Despite a girl going to your room she may get cold feet at the last minute. Push and pull and persistence are key to dealing with this.

Anti-Sl*t Defense (ASD) - No girl wants to feel like a sl*t. They need to rationalize in their heads that you are special and fucking you on the first date is Ok. You have to help them see this. That is also why in street pickup, you have to isolate her from her friends on an initial open and bounce somewhere else (so she can later go to the hotel privately and not look slutty).

Some guys push it all too far, IMO, but most of the principles are sound. This will be important later particularly with Jesse.

OK. So day 2 is Jesse day. Jesse is my 20 year old Viet Korean Mexican hottie. From the pics, she was kinda my fave. In person she is pretty, but via lots of make up and eyelashes and hair extensions (she confessed). Alexa is more naturally pretty. But Jesse is still a very pretty girl.

I changed reservations to go to Lago instead of Carbone, which sounded too much like Il Mulino. Lago is spectacular. The view of the Bellagio fountains is amazing and the food is wonderful. It's Italian tapas so we had five plates we shared.

We had a really nice dinner and she is a much more engaging conversationalist than Alexa. And she really appreciates the setting and the food. She gets carded by the waiter, but she can't produce it and they deny her a glass of wine. Kind of a bummer; but I guess an occupational hazard of dating a twenty year old! Hahaha.

So with Jesse more so than the others, I start to sense her youngness and perhaps she's not as sophisticated and sexy as she tries to imply. I decide to walk straight to the hotel without really saying where we are going, but surely she knows. I escalate with an arm around from time to time and it's not a cold response but not warm either.

As we enter the hotel I tell her I have a couple wines to choose from in my room and she says OK, so we just rock on up there. It's pretty comfortable but you can tell she is shy -- which is in complete contrast to how she dresses, as she is the sluttiest dresser of the three.

In the room, we admire the view and I can just feel the flow is not right. We start drinking and that probably helps. At one point she sits on the bed, which I take as a good sign and join her. But we really just chat a bit awkwardly. At some point I think fuck it and just go in for a kiss. She responds nicely and is a pretty good kisser. So we do that for a minute or two then stop.

The push and pull (remember Nanpa?) is now ringing in the back of my mind so I initiate again and pull her down to a lying position. And we make out a bit more but it's just not feeling there to move beyond that. But again, in retrospect, this was one more pull in a push pull sequence I was unconsciously executing.

I think we have some more wine but you can feel this awkward feeling that she is not DTF (down to fuck) and so I just meet it head on and say it seems she doesn't have chemistry towards me and it's cool. Sometimes it happens. She is all shy about it and says "I can't have sex with a guy I just met!" (LMR! ASD! I say I understand.

At some point I tell her all girls are different and I met a girl in Buenos Aires who took me to a sex club on our second date -- just to let her know that girls her age can be highly sexual. Plus, I am thinking it's not happening, so whatever.

She says "pour me another drink". I think she's getting up her courage. And I say I have a great idea. Let's just make out like high schoolers and we'll do what high schoolers do -- up to but no sex. And she says OK. In retrospect I see I was subconsciously using push pull and a lot of persistence.

So I pull her up fully on the bed and we are both fully clothed and I start letting her feel my masculine dominance. I am on top and kissing her hard and passionately and grinding my pelvis into hers. I do go really slow like a first timer. I start pulling her shirt up and her bra down and sucking her tits. She LOVES that. She's starting to grind back. Good sign.

At some point I put her hand on my hard dick thru my jeans (also learned this move from the Nampa dudes! And I feel her pussy thru her jeans and start thinking about getting them off. I am distracted with some more tit work and when I look down again, her jeans are unbuttoned and the zipper down. Looks like an invitation to me!

At some point we turned out one of the other lights and she is down to bra and panties and I am still working her pussy from the outside when she suddenly says "OK we can fuck now. Just turn out the lights. ".

WTF? Thank you baby Jesus!

I promise this was not all part of an evil plan. But I realize I subconsciously executed some rocking Nampa moves without knowing it! I always read in disbelief as some guy escalates from a blocked kiss to an SNL (single night lay) and how the girl's defenses crumble as she gets horny. And goddamn if I didn't just do it!

She is TRULY inexperienced. No BJ. No DATY. Modest attempt to get me hard by hand. But nice sex in all positions. Marked by her checking her phone from time to time as her mother texts. Bwahahaha. She lets me know she only has a half hour. So I am a little concerned especially with no BBBJ warmup. But her pussy feels great (using Trojan Bareskin Magnums which I like) and I pound out a nice shot in Mish shortly after she says "cum for me baby". Woohoo!

Definitely not the best sex ever and not a repeat. But the whole experience was totally fascinating and I am glad I had it. Seeking just remains soooo interesting.

I walk her to her Uber and off she goes. I know she is feeling a little slutty and so I help her ASD a bit by texting her how I appreciate that she can see I am different from other guys and such. Just helps her feel like she made an exception. Seems to work, as I get some thanks and heart emojis back. And she texts me the next day. Just nice touch base stuff. I am sure she'd go again, but there are too many better options.

LshRoomer
10-08-20, 21:31
Were you living in Denver and Orlando when you used SA? Or you visiting those cities on a short term basis? I can see Orlando is perhaps not too productive. I have not used SA in Orlando but have had some success in Miami / Ft Laud area and also a couple of times in Tampa; the Tampa / St Pete area was truly good with the amount of response I received when I sent out requests ahead of my visit and the quality of girls was awesome and FL prices were reasonably cheap. Orlando however is a touristy city with mostly Disney and Universal crowds and not a fun place otherwise so I can imagine it is a waste of time. I had been in Denver a bunch of times but not recently; I have been on SA for 4-5 years now but in this time frame I was in Denver only once and I did not get a chance to use SA on that visit.

Your 300/400 Euro price is a bit high for my taste. I have gotten super great service in Europe for 200. Pretty girls too. Europe is in economic distress. There are tons of girls now who are desperate. In Spain, one girl I met through SA told me that her work had dried up and she was more or less desperate. She was grateful to take 200 from me for each session, spent nearly 3 hrs each time and pretty much nothing was off limits. That would have cost a pretty penny in FKKs. On the plus side, she was a true Catalan woman and not a Romanian faking to be Catalan (FKK inside joke, for those who get it), BTW, this was prior to Covid. I would think things are truly dire in Europe now and I would not be shocked if you can truly exceptional deals for 200 to 300 (multiple hours, super hot girls, BBFS, etc).

I think in US it is possible to get decent service for fly by travelers but much better to be a local. American girls don't put out that easily and not necessarily on the first date. Some might but many won't. If you are in a city for 4 days, you can try your luck but don't be too disappointed if nothing happens. It is not you, it is them.

Of course, it all depends on who you seek. I always stick to 25, White, slim body types and generally pleasant pretty faces. Occasionally I take fair skinned Latinas. Colombian / Argentine types rather than Mexican / Brazilian types. That is my optical spec. I suspect if you compromise on specs or expand the range of specs, success rate might go up. However, I would not know because I did not try.When I tried Denver and Orlando, I was there for 4 days a piece. Denver girls were very receptive. Of the 2 that I went out with, I banged one ($200) and just made out with the other. On the day I was leaving 2 more girls that I had spoken to contacted me to hang out. One was a thin redhead that I wanted to bang so bad. She couldn't find a babysitter during my whole stay I would definitely do SA in Denver again. It was harder (than EU) to negotiate in Denver, but I was able to line up about 4 girls. Unfortunately, I just didn't have the time to see them all. Orlando, as you mentioned was a desert.

In Europe, my experiences with SBs have been in Berlin, Prague, London, and warsaw. All of these cost me about 300-350 eu. I almost got baited and switched in Berlin for 500, but I shut it down before I pulled out the cash. I've had free in London, as she only wanted stuff (shoes, bags, hang out with me at nice restaurants). I find it difficult to use SA in Prague. I get plenty of initial replies, but they don't continue the correspondence. One SA girl I banged in Prague wasn't even Czech, she was Aussie. I'm still relatively new to the Sugar scene (about 2 years less this year due to being fucked by COVID). I usually use Seeking 2 weeks before I travel and this has been working pretty well.

You have to share where you are finding these 200 eu SBs!! I've never been able to agree on 200/ meet. I usually look for thin non smokers. Ethnicity and age don't matter to me as much, though I do favor euro white girls, then asians, then latinas. However, recently I have been searching for 20 and up. I banged two 18 year olds and I remember wanting a bit more life experience for the chatting, non-bedroom portion.

I'm with you that things in EU sound pretty bad right now and using Seeking would probably yield great results at this point. There are probably awesome sessions to be had for 200-300 eu with the current conditions. More places to conquer once this is all over.

02.

Steve 9696
10-08-20, 21:57
We would like to know your experience with SA girls in various cities and what they are asking for allowances or ppm. There is very little information what the market rates for SBs in various cities.Asked and answered I think but here it is again:

Most large US cities 300-400 with 400 more common.

San Fran and NYC 500.

Second tier cities 300, with possible score at 200.

Girls will often throw out 800 or 1000 PPM. They are smoking crack. Just move on.

LshRoomer
10-08-20, 22:00
Steve9696,

Awesome report man. Keep it coming. Personally, the situations that I find myself in with SA girls are part of the thrill that keeps me coming back. Each one is different and will make the night interesting in different ways.

Game is definitely part of the interaction. As you mentioned, they are not hookers that will fuck you the moment you meet because you are paying them. They do have the ASD (love that term!) and you have to break down those defenses. I start on this the moment we meet in person, with the "freedom talk" over drinks. Basically pointing out that you should be free with your thoughts, free with you emotions, don't be subjected, be free with your path in life, free with your sexuality, as it is right to explore, but only if the guy respects you and your freedom. LOL.

I know it sounds crazy, but most girls eat this up, because it comes across as a challenge. Who wants to think of themselves (or be thought of) as a prude or closed minded person, that enjoys restrictions, and spurns experimentation? I want them to be free with me, and I usually explicitly (with subtlety) let them know that there is no judgement from me for embracing your freedom. One girl even asked, "Do you think I'm a prostitute?" I gave her the freedom speech with a shot of good cognac and I was getting a BBBJ 30 minutes later. LOL. It works.

02.

Member #4703
10-08-20, 23:06
I looked up Lisbon just now and the selection seems OK. That's a good omen as it is not always true in my experience that SA has a large enough selection of girls in all the European cities.

How long will you be in Lisbon? If it is for 2 to 3 weeks at least, paying up a month worth of subscription is worth it. If you are only there for a week or less, I would be hesitant to spend 80 bucks to purchase a subscription. When I used SA in Europe, it was because I already purchased subscription in USA and didn't cost me anything more to use in Europe.I am only going to be there for 5 days but I coughed up for a subscription today. Put into a few hours work and fortunately have got two dates lined up with two early 20's girl who said they are ready to go intimate if the chemistry is there over drinks. Pursuing a couple more, lets see how it goes. Normal price which girls ask is 150-200 for a couple of hours or the whole night depending on the girl (targeting only top 20% of the girls, no 25+ or fat girls). It is already a better deal than doing escorts (which are 150 an hour for the doable / nice ones), so I guess the 100 euros spent on SA membership are not money down the drain.

Lisbon is a bit cheaper in this regard compared to The Netherlands, where I have had most of my SA experience. Netherlands is mostly 200 for a couple of hours, and 300 for a whole night. Depends on the girl also of course, I have had freebies once the girl and me liked each other, but normal prices are what I wrote.

Somebody was asking where to find girls for 200 per meet on SA. I think you have your best chance in the south in the big cities, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon. North will for sure be a bit expensive. You can pm me and I will help you for sure if I can.

Member #4703
10-08-20, 23:10
Guys have dicks so they pay to message.

Girls have pussys so they message for free.

So yeah they don't need premium but you do.Unfortunately. Thanks for the confirmation!

Midwestern
10-09-20, 02:13
You meet an attractive girl. You try to interest her. She determines if you are offering enough to keep her interested in you. Even after you think you hit it off and you get her phone number, she might not respond. Then there's the date or dates. If you are lucky enough to wind up at your place or her place, the girl might play hard to get and you have to go through a long seduction. For me, there was absolutely no long seduction.

For me, the challenge was finding a girl that I liked that was willing to meet me for a drink. When I was active on SA, I would look at pages and pages of profiles, send out maybe a half dozen messages and see if I can get a nibble from any of them. Once I got a nibble, I would say "let's meet for a drink. " There were occasions where they might want to chat me up a little, and I did chat a bit, but I would eventually return to "let's talk about all this over a drink. " If they were game, then we would then set a time and day, but many times the date does not materialize.

But when I finally did get someone to meet for a drink, then we could see if there was genuine chemistry. If there wasn't, then I just cut bait. But if there was great chemistry, then we either had a great time and fucked that night, or we just had a great time and we fucked the next date. Agreeing to an arrangement with girls that I had chemistry with was always easy and quick. We both know what we want in an arrangement. I know what I am wiling to pay and she knows what she is willing to accept. So, convergence occurs quickly.

So, no long seduction. The long part is just finding someone you like to agree to meet you for a drink. But I'm a sample size of 1, so you should take my take with a grain of salt, of course.

Pessimist
10-09-20, 02:14
I am only going to be there for 5 days but I coughed up for a subscription today. Put into a few hours work and fortunately have got two dates lined up with two early 20's girl who said they are ready to go intimate if the chemistry is there over drinks. Pursuing a couple more, lets see how it goes. Normal price which girls ask is 150-200 for a couple of hours or the whole night depending on the girl (targeting only top 20% of the girls, no 25+ or fat girls). It is already a better deal than doing escorts (which are 150 an hour for the doable / nice ones), so I guess the 100 euros spent on SA membership are not money down the drain.

Lisbon is a bit cheaper in this regard compared to The Netherlands, where I have had most of my SA experience. Netherlands is mostly 200 for a couple of hours, and 300 for a whole night. Depends on the girl also of course, I have had freebies once the girl and me liked each other, but normal prices are what I wrote.

Somebody was asking where to find girls for 200 per meet on SA. I think you have your best chance in the south in the big cities, Madrid, Barcelona, Lisbon. North will for sure be a bit expensive. You can pm me and I will help you for sure if I can.My advice or tips if you will.

When time is short, and in your case given that you paid up a subscription just for these 5 days, I would build some margin for error.

The last thing you want is to head back home with only one or two sessions in 5 days in which case you will feel a bit cheated.

Try to reach out to more girls. I don't know how your past experiences have been on sugarbabe sites but my experience is that rate of success is a low percentage in most places in the world. Especially as you put it in your current discussions they only agreed to have sex "if the chemistry is right". That is hardly a promise. Heck, most girls would think in their minds they will get intimate with a guy even for free if the chemistry is right, the guy is attractive yadda yadda.

I don't know how many sex sessions you plan to have. At least 5 sessions in 5 days is a reasonable minimum amount, unless you are too old. So, I would reach out to a minimum of 20 girls who seem attractive enough. Have fun, this back and forth with girls is actually enjoyable. Actually if you send "Hi I am Jack" message to 20 girls and you have sex with 5 of them, that is 25% success rate which is actually quite good in my view. Depending on response rate, reach out to more (or less, if too many respond back).

Also, build margin for error even in meet scheduling. What do I mean by that? Say, you have two girls reasonably interested. Instead of scheduling one for dinner tonight and one tomorrow night, ask one to meet for drinks around 6 PM and tell the other dinner is possible at 8:30 PM the same night. My experience is that a new girl can always flake out. Until you are sitting across from her, assume she may not show up. So, say the 6 Pm girl does show up and you like her and quickly agree on sex and price and everything. Then discreetly send a text to the 8:30 PM girl that sorry, something came up, you can't meet tonight but you will meet her tomorrow. As long as you give her na hour notice, she is unlikely to be pissed too much.

You need to do this because your time is precious and have only 5 days. If you lived in Lisbon permanently you don't need to do this, and I admit it looks a bit shady and selfish but hey, these girls do flake out on you just as easily. You need to watch out for yourself.

I never did sugarbabes in Lisbon but I have experience in Madrid and Barcelona. I agree Lisbon sounds cheap but I am not surprised as Portugal is not a rich country. If I made the money I make in US and somehow could live in Lisbon, I would be having too much fun and sex.

Good luck.

Pessimist
10-09-20, 02:51
When I tried Denver and Orlando, I was there for 4 days a piece. Denver girls were very receptive. Of the 2 that I went out with, I banged one ($200) and just made out with the other. On the day I was leaving 2 more girls that I had spoken to contacted me to hang out. One was a thin redhead that I wanted to bang so bad. She couldn't find a babysitter during my whole stay I would definitely do SA in Denver again. It was harder (than EU) to negotiate in Denver, but I was able to line up about 4 girls. Unfortunately, I just didn't have the time to see them all. Orlando, as you mentioned was a desert.

In Europe, my experiences with SBs have been in Berlin, Prague, London, and warsaw. All of these cost me about 300-350 eu. I almost got baited and switched in Berlin for 500, but I shut it down before I pulled out the cash. I've had free in London, as she only wanted stuff (shoes, bags, hang out with me at nice restaurants). I find it difficult to use SA in Prague. I get plenty of initial replies, but they don't continue the correspondence. One SA girl I banged in Prague wasn't even Czech, she was Aussie. I'm still relatively new to the Sugar scene (about 2 years less this year due to being fucked by COVID). I usually use Seeking 2 weeks before I travel and this has been working pretty well..Tbh, a single 4 day trip is a very short amount of time. I think it is hardly sufficient to make any conclusion about the city. And also depends on what month etc. I mean, take Boston. I have been there on work dozens of times and have had some modest success with sugar babes through SA and yet I don't feel like I have any feel for the Boston market.

In general, you will never know any city / market as you know your home city. Unless you are one of those consultant types and are on the road 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year in which case you don't really have a home city. But I do have a stable home city, and I will always know the current market conditions and how they relate to the past and what is a god price, who is cheating, and many other things in my home city than anywhere else.

W. are. T. EU, I used SA in Spain multiple times, in Munich and Hamburg in Germany and a couple of other places. As I was saying to Jack above, Lisbon appears quite nice for SA. I found a lot of pretty girls and per his initial discussions so far he is saying prices are 150 to 200 which is quite cheap (for 2 hours. As you know, these days even FKK girls are upping their price to 150 an hour, plus door entry of another 80 or 90).

One thing, I am not sure if SA is the best site in each country. BFsie (not sure if he reads this thread) is a long time sugarbabe user and he is in Germany. Not sure which site he uses to find sugar babes. Different sites may be strong in different countries. SA is an American site and is the best for American cities but it doesn't have to be the best in all countries. For me SA works because I already have subscription, and if I'm visiting another city I can quickly check out the girls list and send a few Hello messages ahead of my visit to make some deals. If they work, they work. If they don't, I haven't lost anything because anyway I am in those cities for business reasons.

I can't disclose what's my home city as I am married and already saying too many things here. I will say though, we are rounding here right? For example 240 is rounded to 200 and 260 is rounded to 300. I don't negotiate in hundreds, my negotiations can even be 220,240 etc. Hey, I am a cheap bastard and it is my money. And I did have quite a few 200's sessions. Again, as I told Jack from NL above, in your home city, you can be patient and take time and negotiate. There are tons of girls, what is the hurry? I can also tell you that there is always no correlation between looks and price. Some really pretty, 22 year olds gave me super good sex for 220 or 240 and some slightly older, less pretty ones did not budge below 280 or 300. It all depends, every case is different.

In my experience, this sugar babe market is highly local. Within my city, some areas are richer and some not so. And if you drive an hour in each direction, the addressable area is obviously much larger. Within that radius, some are quite low end while in other directions the adjoining towns are well off. I find quite a bit of difference in the attitude of girls, prices they are willing to accept depending on where they live. One more thing. A 20 year old girl who is not supported by her family, has no family, living on her own, has to make rent every month, worse yet has a child, is a lot more amenable and pliable. Take another 21 year old, a junior studying business at the local university. Perhaps mom and dad pay her tuition, she has education, job prospects, swag. This one is looking for money for spending expenses, a fancy phone etc but also may not put out for sex immediately or has exaggerated sense of self worth. She indeed may be worth a lot of money to some other guy but for me, a pretty female body is a pretty body and I could not care any less if she has college education, can make a good convo etc. So, my point, you got to read the profile she wrote for herself, what she says, how she expresses, and also get a sense of her situation through text messages. A single mother of 20, or a girl living on her own and with no family support and doing a receptionist job, waitress Job, and has FWB in her seeking section and says "ready for any arrangement" well you know she will have sex, and probably not too hard in negotiation. The same "ready for anything" from a college girl might not even mean she will have sex, because in her mind "anything" means she is OK with a music concert vs outdoor fun outing, but sex may still be off limits. So, net net, this is a market in which one has to spend a lot of time and do a lot of home work and be patient. If I am prepared to spend 500 for every sex session, no patience is needed, I can pick anyone I want. But for good deals, you need to stay patient.

In general, the coastal areas are high priced in the US as can be expected. Well, Charleston is perhaps cheap, may be a Virginia Beach is cheap but I am talking about Boston, NYC, SF, Seattle, etc. Chicago is a megapolis but is clearly cheaper than Boston, but a good sight when it comes to sugarbabes. Under 300 is absolutely doable in Chicago, Milwaukee and in between. Miami is expensive but if you head to Ft Laud, there are quite a few places which are not so expensive. Not Palm Beach, but some other areas near Hollywood etc. Tampa is really good as I said. Obviously I did not try out every city, and NYC and SF were absolutely the worst. Borderline ugly MILFs were asking 800. I stopped even looking for sugarbabes when I travel to those cities. Canada is pretty nice but not enough personal data points for me in Canada.

DramaFree11
10-09-20, 03:48
Tbh, a single 4 day trip is a very short amount of time. I think it is hardly sufficient to make any conclusion about the city. And also depends on what month etc. I mean, take Boston. I have been there on work dozens of times and have had some modest success with sugar babes through SA and yet I don't feel like I have any feel for the Boston market.

In general, you will never know any city / market as you know your home city. Unless you are one of those consultant types and are on the road 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year in which case you don't really have a home city. But I do have a stable home city, and I will always know the current market conditions and how they relate to the past and what is a god price, who is cheating, and many other things in my home city than anywhere else.

W. are. T. EU, I used SA in Spain multiple times, in Munich and Hamburg in Germany and a couple of other places. As I was saying to Jack above, Lisbon appears quite nice for SA. I found a lot of pretty girls and per his initial discussions so far he is saying prices are 150 to 200 which is quite cheap (for 2 hours. As you know, these days even FKK girls are upping their price to 150 an hour, plus door entry of another 80 or 90).

One thing, I am not sure if SA is the best site in each country. BFsie (not sure if he reads this thread) is a long time sugarbabe user and he is in Germany. Not sure which site he uses to find sugar babes. Different sites may be strong in different countries. SA is an American site and is the best for American cities but it doesn't have to be the best in all countries. For me SA works because I already have subscription, and if I'm visiting another city I can quickly check out the girls list and send a few Hello messages ahead of my visit to make some deals. If they work, they work. If they don't, I haven't lost anything because anyway I am in those cities for business reasons.Great post, but my experience is it will not go very well if you offer less then $300, just me. Pluse time is money and my time is valuable, so the more time I spend on SA, takes a way from my business.

Pessimist
10-09-20, 05:00
Great post, but my experience is it will not go very well if you offer less then $300, just me. Pluse time is money and my time is valuable, so the more time I spend on SA, takes a way from my business.How much you value your time is of course personal. I enjoy this process, so yes while I spend a lot of time (sneaking away to the toilet at work and quickly shooting a few messages, stuck at the traffic light during commute and send a few back and forths.).

As for price, it is very clearly a location dependent issue, which I must have said in every single post I made in this particular thread. 300 might do it for you but might not in SF. I was in that city earlier this year and one girl said "250? I take that much for 2 hours of dinner, plus I need an upfront gift".

Look, the rent for a one bdrm in Bay Area could run 2 grand, may be 1500 in OK parts of NJ or Queens to commute to NYC, and in Kansas City could get away with less than a thou. It is not sensible to expect sugarbabe price will be the same everywhere. My rule of thumb is 4 meets a month should equate to a month rent on a one bdrm apartment in a decent neighborhood.

Also, my own equation changes if I am on the road or in my home city. On the road, my hotel is always a business expense. And I am pressed for time, so I can go a bit more. At home, if I like the girl I may keep seeing her for many months. It is much better to set a lower base for first time. If I do 300 for first meet, I will need to keep paying that much every time. And keep in mind, with a given girl you only negotiate once. If I have 4,5 semi regular girls I am set for a while. The deal is set, price is set, no need to waste time in negotiations. If you are looking for a new face every meet, then yes you have a lot of work to do.

Midwestern
10-09-20, 07:53
Great post, but my experience is it will not go very well if you offer less then $300, just me. Pluse time is money and my time is valuable, so the more time I spend on SA, takes a way from my business.I signed up on SA with a buddy of mine. He loves black girls. He could always find black girls on SA for $200. I won't say where he lives except to say that he lives in a big city. But he could always score black girls on SA for $200 when he visited me in SF. The girls were usually in Oakland, which is not far from SF. Almost all of his SBs were pretty hot, tall, and slender. A lot of college students.

So, when we quote prices, I think we are assuming everyone is going after non-black girls.

BTW, please don't infer anything racist about my post. I am just stating a fact based on the experience of my buddy, that's all.

WyattEarp
10-09-20, 15:14
I signed up on SA with a buddy of mine. He loves black girls. He could always find black girls on SA for $200. I won't say where he lives except to say that he lives in a big city. But he could always score black girls on SA for $200 when he visited me in SF. The girls were usually in Oakland, which is not far from SF. Almost all of his SBs were pretty hot, tall, and slender. A lot of college students.

So, when we quote prices, I think we are assuming everyone is going after non-black girls.

BTW, please don't infer anything racist about my post. I am just stating a fact based on the experience of my buddy, that's all.I recall a guy from another forum who hooked up with mostly Black and some Latina hotties in a major USA City. He had a genuine attraction for dark complexions. (I do too for what it's worth.) he also confirmed your observation. I don't think it's racist to note that women from lower income levels will be more negotiable on SA. Pessimist noted below that the economic circumstances of the woman will affect their flexibility on price.

[Deleted by Admin]. I wish them all luck in getting what they want.

Pessimist
10-09-20, 15:48
I signed up on SA with a buddy of mine. He loves black girls. He could always find black girls on SA for $200. I won't say where he lives except to say that he lives in a big city. But he could always score black girls on SA for $200 when he visited me in SF. The girls were usually in Oakland, which is not far from SF. Almost all of his SBs were pretty hot, tall, and slender. A lot of college students..I have very clearly written the race / age / other specs of the girls I seek on SA. No need to repeat I think.

What people assume about the preferences of other guys is their problem. What I find funny around here is that some people do a few sessions in a few cities and assume them are the prices everywhere and for every girl, and in every circumstance. It is a big world, there are millions of members on SA and other sugar dating sites. To assume all arrangements have the same pricing parameters is as dumb as assuming all dinners all over the world cost the same, all clothes, all (whatever good / service) cost the same. One would hope that guys who have been smart enough to accumulate some money to afford these arrangements have more sense than making such absurd assumptions.

We are talking about a service between two specific individuals. Nothing about them is standard. The guy's and girl's looks, behavior, other personal attributes, where they live, what they need and can afford, girl's urgency for money, what they do in the time spent together, etc etc. To assume there is one standard pricing for any of this, or even that the price cannot change with good discussion and negotiation is just foolish in my view.

LshRoomer
10-10-20, 15:57
I have very clearly written the race / age / other specs of the girls I seek on SA. No need to repeat I think.

What people assume about the preferences of other guys is their problem. What I find funny around here is that some people do a few sessions in a few cities and assume them are the prices everywhere and for every girl, and in every circumstance. It is a big world, there are millions of members on SA and other sugar dating sites. To assume all arrangements have the same pricing parameters is as dumb as assuming all dinners all over the world cost the same, all clothes, all (whatever good / service) cost the same. One would hope that guys who have been smart enough to accumulate some money to afford these arrangements have more sense than making such absurd assumptions.

We are talking about a service between two specific individuals. Nothing about them is standard. The guy's and girl's looks, behavior, other personal attributes, where they live, what they need and can afford, girl's urgency for money, what they do in the time spent together, etc etc. To assume there is one standard pricing for any of this, or even that the price cannot change with good discussion and negotiation is just foolish in my view.Any guy here that hasn't had long arrangements, few, or none is probably seeking general guidelines as to what certain regions may charge. You are right! There is no standard, it all depends on the girl, her situation, her desperation, her level of "proness", etc. In the end, when you explore a new city or a familiar one, the majority of prices will fall within a certain range. Can you find numbers outside of that range? Of course! I had 2 SBs that I hooked up for a long time in London. One wanted gifts and almost no money. The other wanted 300 P everytime we hung out. How the hell do you average that out for someone here asking the price in London? You can't. You have to give general guidelines, which Steve9696 put together nicely.

I've been in London for a month and sometimes weeks at a time and having those 2 SBs that you can go to really have shaped my experiences, and perception. I respectfully disagree that 4 days (in the case of Denver, etc) isn't sufficient. I have used Seeking in places where I have spent a month, weeks, and just a few days. Concerning SBs and SA, there is nothing I learned in week 4 of my stay that I didn't' already know in day 3. Of course you will know the city better, but IMHO, you don't need much time to properly judge the SB environment in a city, mainly because the girls will be different, but will usually fit within a certain range. Trading messages and chatting with tons of SBs on SA will paint a decent picture of what to expect in terms of expenditure, availability, etc. Going out and where to go. That's an experience thing that comes along with increased familiarity with a city.

It looks like you are finding nice SBs for approx 200 in EU. That hasn't been my luck so far. I've been hanging around the 300 eu mark. Just my experience.

In the end, we are all getting out, banging chicks, having experiences adn sharing here. Let's keep the info flowing (even if experiences have been contrary to each other). Stay safe.

02.

Steve 9696
10-10-20, 21:08
So I have two SBs that were technically fails never met up and had sex but are really satisfying.

The first one I met very early in my journey. We never met up and in fact I think I recall her saying she couldn't get down with someone my age. Ouch! But we became penpal friends. We've petered out now mostly but we used to chat about boyfriends and SBs, how she orgasms best and so much more (never used a vibrator. Wtf?). I helped her with her resume. I helped her with her med school essay. It's just been a nice friendly friendship between this old dude and a hot young chick in need of guidance. Have enjoyed it.

The second one is even more interesting. Found out early she just wanted to cam not meetup. In fact she was a lesbian or so she thought. So we got to chatting nightly. She would tell me about the guy she walks on no sex. For $200. Well one night she ended up (unrelated to SA) with a guy she really crushed on back in HS and they ended up trying to have sex. They did mish and she said it hurt and they had to stop. She remained more convinced she is a lesbian. I explained to her she needed to start on top and control insertion and it would get easier. Long story short it worked and they got it on repeatedly. Eventually they broke up but she knew she was bi not a lesbian. She got a new boyfriend and they've been living together for months. She's soooo happy. We almost never talk anymore now that she has her man. But I get true happiness knowing I set her on a different path.

So two fails = Two successes. I'm really thankful SA connects humans who wouldn't connect IRL. It's pretty cool. Of course sex is even better. LOL.

Midwestern
10-11-20, 00:33
So I have two SBs that were technically fails never met up and had sex but are really satisfying.

So two fails = Two successes. I'm really thankful SA connects humans who wouldn't connect IRL. It's pretty cool. Of course sex is even better. LOL.Yeah, I made a friend on SA that I never ended up having sex with. I was in a small USA city for a couple of months, and tried the local SA scene. Found an incredibly hot half black girl who was a graduate student. She wanted to chat a bit before meetup, so we chatted and texted a bit. And it was fun chatting and texting with her. Then I found out what field she was studying in and it directly overlaps with my field, and given that we were in a small city, I got cold feet, so we didn't meet. She eventually starts to like me, from our chats and texts, and wants to meetup badly. I told her that I was a journalist, writing a story about SA, so I was not really interested in being an SD. So, we continued chatting and texting. This lasted for maybe a couple of years.

During the course of our chats and texts, she would sometimes mention how large her tits were, even though she was slim (she was some kind of college athlete as an undergrad), and that just drove me crazy. LOL. Oh well.

Midwestern
10-11-20, 00:44
I respectfully disagree that 4 days (in the case of Denver, etc) isn't sufficient. I have used Seeking in places where I have spent a month, weeks, and just a few days. Concerning SBs and SA, there is nothing I learned in week 4 of my stay that I didn't' already know in day 3. Of course you will know the city better, but IMHO, you don't need much time to properly judge the SB environment in a city, mainly because the girls will be different, but will usually fit within a certain range. Trading messages and chatting with tons of SBs on SA will paint a decent picture of what to expect in terms of expenditure, availability, etc. Going out and where to go. That's an experience thing that comes along with increased familiarity with a city.Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. But this is only after one has become pretty experienced on SA. I started using SA in SF. Took me a while (maybe 3 months) to learn how to get the most out of it, and I was on SA a lot (like 10 hours a week). Then I tried it when I was in Vegas for work. I had to learn some new things, and not just different pricing, but also their different expectations, etc. It took me a month before I finally figured out how to get the most out of the Vegas SA scene. Then I tried it in Portland, and again, same thing, I had to learn some new things, but this time it only took me less than a couple of weeks to figure out the Portland SA scene. And so I was getting faster and better at learning new SA scenes. Eventually, whenever I got another new city, it only took me a few days to get up to speed. So, it got to the point where if I was in a new city, then just like you said, I didn't learn anything new in week 3 that I didn't already know on day 3. However, one caveat is that these were all USA cities. I am sure it will take longer to get up to speed on SA if I were traveling and using it outside of the USA.

Midwestern
10-11-20, 00:56
I got the keys to my love shack yesterday. I went to the department store to buy beddings, toiletries, etc. As I was setting up my new apartment, I was thinking to myself that this is perhaps one of the craziest and most outlandish things that I have ever done in my life.

Going to use the love shack to meet my two arrangements on a regular basis.

One horrifying discovery, however, is that there is a security guard and also a front desk with workers in my building. It was the first time I realized that so many people worked in the small lobby of this building. And another horrifying discovery is that I cannot buzz people into my building. This is actually the more horrifying discovery. Every decent apartment that I know of in Shanghai has the ability to buzz people into the building. But in my new apartment, I have to fucking go downstairs to let people in. So, it won't take long for the security guards and front desk workers to know that I am only using the apartment to shag women. On the one hand, I am thinking that I should not give a shit what these people think, but on the other hand, I just do not like people knowing my business. And who knows, maybe they report me to the authorities. Maybe I'm fucked.

NeilGeorge
10-11-20, 04:28
Biggest problem with these SA girls are getting them to show up for initial dates. Probably 1 in 4 will show up and meet you at a restaurant for a meal, although you make the date. I tell them to text me when they are on the way, or confirm the next day. Very few follow thru.

Second biggest problem are the scam artists that try to get money up front for no pussy. Baby sitters, meet up fees, sob stories. You wade thru 100 profiles and send them messages and get 7 to respond with their phone number. When you try to call them they do not answer. If you meet 1 of 100 that is par for the course.

Akibono
10-11-20, 04:44
I got the keys to my love shack yesterday. I went to the department store to buy beddings, toiletries, etc. As I was setting up my new apartment, I was thinking to myself that this is perhaps one of the craziest and most outlandish things that I have ever done in my life.

Going to use the love shack to meet my two arrangements on a regular basis.

One horrifying discovery, however, is that there is a security guard and also a front desk with workers in my building. It was the first time I realized that so many people worked in the small lobby of this building. And another horrifying discovery is that I cannot buzz people into my building. This is actually the more horrifying discovery. Every decent apartment that I know of in Shanghai has the ability to buzz people into the building. But in my new apartment, I have to fucking go downstairs to let people in. So, it won't take long for the security guards and front desk workers to know that I am only using the apartment to shag women. On the one hand, I am thinking that I should not give a shit what these people think, but on the other hand, I just do not like people knowing my business. And who knows, maybe they report me to the authorities. Maybe I'm fucked.You are just thinking too linearly. Just like everything in life, you have to have a plausible story. As for guards and front desk, get to know them. Say a few words and give them small gifts to get them to like you. For example, get them to do you a small favor (I. E. Letting in the girl) and give them a gift as appreciation. That makes it hard for them to rat you out. Is it possible to get a key for the girl? One other trick is to tell them a "friend" is coming to pick up something you forgot that you need for work. Girls can also be disguised as delivery service. The possibilities are endless. Never look guilty.

Akibono
10-11-20, 04:53
I have very clearly written the race / age / other specs of the girls I seek on SA. No need to repeat I think.

What people assume about the preferences of other guys is their problem. What I find funny around here is that some people do a few sessions in a few cities and assume them are the prices everywhere and for every girl, and in every circumstance. It is a big world, there are millions of members on SA and other sugar dating sites. To assume all arrangements have the same pricing parameters is as dumb as assuming all dinners all over the world cost the same, all clothes, all (whatever good / service) cost the same. One would hope that guys who have been smart enough to accumulate some money to afford these arrangements have more sense than making such absurd assumptions.

We are talking about a service between two specific individuals. Nothing about them is standard. The guy's and girl's looks, behavior, other personal attributes, where they live, what they need and can afford, girl's urgency for money, what they do in the time spent together, etc etc. To assume there is one standard pricing for any of this, or even that the price cannot change with good discussion and negotiation is just foolish in my view.My sample size is small since covid has restricted my activities. That is why the more reports here the better. Data eventually reveals a pattern if you know how to evaluate it. I think the problem is between pros and non-pros. In general, pros know the regional price since they see many people and have to be in demand to earn a certain amount. Not much different that brothels and escorts. The non-pro may be clueless, be misled by articles and friends. They may be greedy or just not that willing to go with a stranger. Plus, looks and approach are going to be factors. Thanks to all who are patient and shared details. This link has been a great help. There are just too many duds. Losers, druggies, desperate moms, pic / video sellers. The others have tons of guys chasing them and it is tough to stand out. But this is a game of numbers. That is my observation of limited cities in the US. It seems other countries are much better. EU has fewer losers and druggies. Plus, they are more sex positive and going with an older man is not as much of an issue.

Pessimist
10-11-20, 14:46
Yeah, I pretty much agree with you. But this is only after one has become pretty experienced on SA. I started using SA in SF. Took me a while (maybe 3 months) to learn how to get the most out of it, and I was on SA a lot (like 10 hours a week). Then I tried it when I was in Vegas for work. I had to learn some new things, and not just different pricing, but also their different expectations, etc. It took me a month before I finally figured out how to get the most out of the Vegas SA scene. Then I tried it in Portland, and again, same thing, I had to learn some new things, but this time it only took me less than a couple of weeks to figure out the Portland SA scene. And so I was getting faster and better at learning new SA scenes. Eventually, whenever I got another new city, it only took me a few days to get up to speed. So, it got to the point where if I was in a new city, then just like you said, I didn't learn anything new in week 3 that I didn't already know on day 3. However, one caveat is that these were all USA cities. I am sure it will take longer to get up to speed on SA if I were traveling and using it outside of the USA.The process of looking up girls, contacting them, negotiations and some price discovery etc work the same in all cities, whether in US or abroad. With more time in a city, you are able to reach out to more girls and have a lot more back and forth discussions and meet more of them and all those other things. He was in Denver for 4 days and met a couple and had sex and if you think that is sufficient to know all there is to know about that city, I will leave you to your view. In my city, just in the 18-28 White girl slim / curvy body group, there are thousands of girls on SA. More than 70% of them login just occasionally. SA is not their full time occupation, they all have jobs and schools and normal life. I send Hello to so many of them and I hear back from a bunch of them back weeks later and sometimes months later. I reply to their reply and takes several days for a 2nd response from them. After some chat on the site, move it to offsite chat, and eventually agree for a lunch or dinner or coffee meet, there is more time taken up. (I never skip dinner to ask for sex in the first meet. Matter of fact, I never even discuss sex in SA or on the phone. Only in person). Even the meets don't always happen as planned on time, some text the morning of the meet and say sorry I need to cancel or postpone. 50% to 70% of the meets eventually move into sex situations but not on the date of dinner itself. In fact my preference is not to have sex on the first date. That is my experience.

When I am on the road, I hit up a few girls, hurriedly try to make plans to meet with any girls who respond back. A lot less choice. So many girls say "oh you are in town this week, I am out / busy this week but can meet next week or the week after blah blah". How do you know how it would have gone with them, what they would have agreed to?

I see a lot of pushback from you guys on the $200 or low $200's pricing. Yes, you come into the city for a few days and hit up a few girls and accept the best offer among the few that you receive then I can see why your prices are consistently in the 300 to 400 or even 500. That's what happens to me when I travel to other US cities. You want better deals, you got to spend the time, learn to enjoy the process, and expand the search to more than few girls or more than a few dozen girls. I have been on road and used SA in many cities as have many of you but in my view, the deals I get or the Intel I have in my city are far better than elsewhere and that's not just because I live in a cheaper city but because here I have time, patience and can wait. If you think time and patience do not add value, again that's your view but not my view.

Pessimist
10-11-20, 18:34
Biggest problem with these SA girls are getting them to show up for initial dates. Probably 1 in 4 will show up and meet you at a restaurant for a meal, although you make the date. I tell them to text me when they are on the way, or confirm the next day. Very few follow thru.

Second biggest problem are the scam artists that try to get money up front for no pussy. Baby sitters, meet up fees, sob stories. You wade thru 100 profiles and send them messages and get 7 to respond with their phone number. When you try to call them they do not answer. If you meet 1 of 100 that is par for the course.This is accurate. Then there is the other problem which is a time lag. And this is what I have said multiple times.

SA is not that different from a Tinder or other matching sites. The only difference is that there is an explicit expectation of monetary help in exchange for sex / intimacy / date. BTW, Not every dude is after sex on SA. I have heard from sugarbabes that I had sex with who also had past experiences with guys that paid $200 or more for non-sex meets. Amazingly, these girls still gave me sex for similar compensation. Reminds me a bit of FKK WGs who collect 200 Euro from a naive Asian tourist and still provide you with good service for 50.

But the downside of this is that literally anyone can join the site posing as "girl seeking guy". I said this also many times. At least a good percent of "girl seeking guys" may not even be girls, may not be in my home city as they claim. If a "girl" demands 100 just to meet, how do you know it is really a girl and not a guy? S / he never meets you, pockets your 100 and move onto the next fish. They can do it all day long, as long as they are enough gullible horny desperados. For all you know, you might have been exchanging romantic sweet nothings with a pot bellied bald dude in a basement in Chechnia or Ghana. Photos mean nothing, a billion photos can be downloaded off FB and other internet and used as your own. Heck, I can join SA in an instant posing as "girl seeking guy", steal a few Romanian and Ukrainian girl photos, and hit up a lot of guys and pocket some easy money. Quite easy to do.

My rule of thumb, a girl on SA is only a girl after I actually meet her physically. Till then, she is not even a physical person. Could be a bot. And sex is on only when she is in the room and has taken off her clothes. I literally had girls who agreed to terms, came to my room, made out some while still in clothes than refused to actually have sex saying that there was some misunderstanding or some other bullshit excuse. One girl once let me lick her tits and then feigned innocence and claimed she does not do sex and another girl made out with tons of kissing and then said that is all she will let me do. I could not say anything to them because I never discuss explicit sexual acts prior to the room out of caution. Just something like "OK, let us meet at this hotel tomorrow" and with the idea that the girl knows what we are going to do. What can you say to a girl who comes to your hotel room at 8PM, lies down on the bed with you for 20 minutes with heavy petting and kissing and even fondling of tits with my hands squeezing her butt (may be still clothed) and then she says to me "I am sorry, who does sex? I am not a hooker; mutual benefits mean only some kissing"?

But the thing you have in your favor is time and patience. And over time, you collect contacts of enough number of reliable girls. In my experience, once a girl had sex with you, she will always trust you in future meets. She just relaxes around you. So, you can hit her up even after a year during which you never spoke to each other and she is still likely to respond back and at least listen to what you have to say. Plus there is no need for fresh negotiation.

The other thing is that girls change their minds. I had many girls who flat out rejected me or showed no interest in my proposals and then changed their minds a few months later. Just because a girl said does not mean it is a permanent NO, nor is it personal. When a girl says no, I wish her well and kinda keep the bridge intact. Their circumstances change. Perhaps her finances are OK now but she is broke 6 months from now. She is more open to hearing you out. Also she knows from the past you did not insult her when you said no, were polite, have been on the site long enough which makes you reliable in her eyes. These are attributes girls prize very much.

Sometimes they take months to respond. I received a reply to my initial message from a girl in Chicago 9 months after I sent a Hello to her. So, before I traveled to Chicago I sent her "Hey, I am xyz, in your town next week, love to get to know, please let me know if you want to meet up for a dinner or drink yadda yadda". She literally responded back 9 months later with "hey, just seeing this message, when are you in town"! Seriously? I mean, in that 9 months period, I visited Chicago 2 more times. But I was polite and said "well, I was in your town a while ago and may visit again, let us meet up then for a drink, BTW, here is my number".

In essence, I look at SA as a way of building my rolodex. And girls that you have been able to meet are golden. You know she is real, she will meet and you know how she really looks like in person and not in photos. Hang onto those girls and their contact #s. She might not agree to your proposal and price now, but she may change her views later on. I feel that just like in a casino the house is always favored in the long run, in this type of situation, the guy has the upper hand. Sooner or later, the girl loses her money and is back in a tough situation and will be scrambling around who can help her. With patience, you can take advantage of those situations and be ready when she is.

Akibono
10-12-20, 05:09
This is accurate.

My rule of thumb, a girl on SA is only a girl after I actually meet her physically. Till then, she is not even a physical person. Could be a bot. And sex is on only when she is in the room and has taken off her clothes. I literally had girls who agreed to terms, came to my room, made out some while still in clothes than refused to actually have sex saying that there was some misunderstanding or some other bullshit excuse. One girl once let me lick her tits and then feigned innocence and claimed she does not do sex and another girl made out with tons of kissing and then said that is all she will let me do. I could not say anything to them because I never discuss explicit sexual acts prior to the room out of caution. Just something like "OK, let us meet at this hotel tomorrow" and with the idea that the girl knows what we are going to do. What can you say to a girl who comes to your hotel room at 8PM, lies down on the bed with you for 20 minutes with heavy petting and kissing and even fondling of tits with my hands squeezing her butt (may be still clothed) and then she says to me "I am sorry, who does sex? I am not a hooker; mutual benefits mean only some kissing"?

But the thing you have in your favor is time and patience. And over time, you collect contacts of enough number of reliable girls. In my experience, once a girl had sex with you, she will always trust you in future meets. She just relaxes around you. So, you can hit her up even after a year during which you never spoke to each other and she is still likely to respond back and at least listen to what you have to say. Plus there is no need for fresh negotiation..I take it that money never changes hands until the end. What do you do if the girl asks for money up front? This is the classic hooker scam. After the money changes hands, she says she is just there to talk. That is always the problem in the US. We are always dancing around the law and trust is not easy to achieve. It is a risk for the girl if you have sex and then refuse to pay, but it is also a risk for you if you pay / promise anything up front.

WyattEarp
10-12-20, 14:55
Hey Pessimist,

When you have dinner dates with no expectation of sex are you offering the girls any compensation for the initial intro dinner / meet? Just curious how you approach it. Thanks.

BootyBandit84
10-12-20, 20:18
Hey Pessimist,

When you have dinner dates with no expectation of sex are you offering the girls any compensation for the initial intro dinner / meet? Just curious how you approach it. Thanks.If we agree to meet for dinner to see if we have chemistry before agreeing to head to the hotel, I usually agree to pay for dinner and maybe some money for uber / taxi but no real cash unless we actually have sex. I make it perfectly clear that there is no money if there is no honey. Only once has a woman that actually shows up for dinner (and that's its own problem) has elected not to head to the room.

Pessimist
10-12-20, 20:57
Akibono -.

You are right, I have mostly given money after the deed. For the obvious (2nd) reason you mentioned and not necessarily because they take the money and then fly the scene. Thankfully that has never happened to me. (I wonder what a guy should / would do if you give the money to her before sex and she pockets it and tries to run out? Do you block her? Make a ruckus? It is a lose / lose proposition. I hope it never happens to me). I did give the money upfront on a max of 2 or 3 occasions because the girl insisted, I caved in, and all those situations were when I was on the road and not in my home city; and I regretted every single instance (not because anything bad happened, but it is just a risky gambit, giving the money first; as it could be an entrapment. I know Mongerer88 thinks entrapment is very rare or never happens but I don't want to be the one guy that has the bad luck). Lucky for me, I am still free enough to type this. I always kicked myself and promised "I will never do it again". Hope I have the sense to stay with that conviction.

One way I protect myself is not discussing sex / even FWB explicitly in any message / chat. Some girls themselves bring up sex: such as "hey handsome, what are you seeking?" "just to get to know you babe, HBU?" "well, NSA, I am down to fuck". At that point, I typically block them. Sometimes it pains me because the girl may be superhot, I obviously do want to fuck. But any explicit mention of sex, I just hang up the conversation. Can't afford to take the risk.

WyattEarp. No, I never pay for drink / dinner date. I say in my message "I do like to help out and most definitely do give an allowance, but the first meet and greet is for both of our benefit and I do NOT give anything for this meet. If that is not OK, we can stop right here". More than a small percentage drop out right there. That is just fine with me.

I typically cast a wide net precisely because I am so strict in all these things: not paying up too much, no upfront money for dinner dates, etc. The success rate is typically low. But I enjoy the process, enjoy the dialog with the girls. I am quite positive that my success rate will go up if I was paying up 400. But as I said, over time I build up a good rolodexof contacts. I still have 6 to 10 girls now who are still open to meets, although I discontinued my SA subscription now due to Covid. Just to be clear, I have given up to 300 in my city (in case people think I never give more than 200). But more than 300 is a no / no unless the girl is super foxy. Also, sometimes it could be even less. One Latina girl, just 20, went out on 3 lunch dates with me and twice we went to movies. That theater had reclining chairs, almost like flat beds. We stretched out and made out most of the movie with lots of rubbing, it was a teenager dream. I was super horny. Felt much better than most of my sex sessions. Finally we did have sex and she said give me 150, and I was like what!; so I gave her 180. Later I regretted, I was being a cheap bastard, and she went out 4 times including the sex date. That was one of my last meets before Covid brought everything to a sad halt. Latinas are not my type normally but she was nice looking and skinny and somewhat shy and quite innocent; those movie makeouts will stay with me for a while.

BrizLad
10-12-20, 21:57
I have to fucking go downstairs to let people in. So, it won't take long for the security guards and front desk workers to know that I am only using the apartment to shag women. On the one hand, I am thinking that I should not give a shit what these people think, but on the other hand, I just do not like people knowing my business.Your business? You mean providing English language tuition. I just assume these people are coming for English language classes each week. Maybe accidentally dropping a few flyers might be helpful also.

LshRoomer
10-12-20, 22:32
In essence, I look at SA as a way of building my rolodex. And girls that you have been able to meet are golden. You know she is real, she will meet and you know how she really looks like in person and not in photos. Hang onto those girls and their contact #s. She might not agree to your proposal and price now, but she may change her views later on. I feel that just like in a casino the house is always favored in the long run, in this type of situation, the guy has the upper hand. Sooner or later, the girl loses her money and is back in a tough situation and will be scrambling around who can help her. With patience, you can take advantage of those situations and be ready when she is.Amen to that. I feel the same. It's all about building a rolodex. After you have met her, banged her, and had a good time, the meet ups do become easier and more relaxed. Some of these chicks try to get away with murder. I had a girl about 1 hour outside of London that I was chatting up. We moved over to whatsapp and things were actually going smooth. I told her that I would be in town in a few days and asked when she wanted to meet. Her reaction was one of surprise that I actually expected to meet her. We discussed helping her out with some cash for an application or something. She wanted me to send the money to her without ever meeting. I bailed and made it very clear with future SBs that I expect intimacy as part of our arrangement. I can only imagine how pissed I would be if an SB said that kissing is where is stops. My rule is not ot hand over the cash until the deed is done.

Because of the legal nature of pay for play in the US, I actually don't like the environment here and prefer the EU environment both for regular escorts and SA. Asia makes me curious, but I haven't heard any overwhelming positives or glowing reviews that would warrant a trip.

02.

BrizLad
10-13-20, 10:51
Asia makes me curious, but I haven't heard any overwhelming positives or glowing reviews that would warrant a trip.

02.You are joking? Check the Philippines and Indonesia forums on this site. I cannot wait to get back to banging beauties.

Midwestern
10-14-20, 01:35
Asia makes me curious, but I haven't heard any overwhelming positives or glowing reviews that would warrant a trip.

I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.

Nounce
10-14-20, 08:17
I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.I agree. I think Thailand should be first on the list for first timer. It has more varieties, food, accommodation, more things to see and do. You can get around town by subway, moto, taxi, and boat. Pretty much everything is in walking distance if you don't mind walking.

Steve 9696
10-14-20, 08:22
I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.Don't know how Korea got on your "decent" list. My experience was that it was super hard to find solid FS providers. I can usually crack the nut in any country I go to with enough research even Taiwan which is painfully hard to crack. But I never broke thru to more than a naughty handjob in Seoul. What's the secret decoder ring.

Agree Thailand and Japan are worth a visit. Thailand is easy and obvious. Japan takes a bit of research to find the Gaijin friendly (round eyes) options.

Midwestern
10-15-20, 00:50
Don't know how Korea got on your "decent" list. My experience was that it was super hard to find solid FS providers. I can usually crack the nut in any country I go to with enough research even Taiwan which is painfully hard to crack. But I never broke thru to more than a naughty handjob in Seoul. What's the secret decoder ring.

Agree Thailand and Japan are worth a visit. Thailand is easy and obvious. Japan takes a bit of research to find the Gaijin friendly (round eyes) options.This will come off as a huge generalization, but so be it: Japanese and Korean doods are some of the horniest guys on the planet, so you know those countries have to have amazing mongering opportunities. Pretty much all Japanese and Korean wives just accept that their husbands are screwing pros regularly. But again, probably a generalization.

I went to Korea for the first time in 1999, and then work kept putting me back in Korea through 2003, so my experience may seem outdated, but I sometimes look at the Seoul thread and it looks like it's still a mongering hotspot (pre-covid, of course).

I remember one time, at a KTV, the girls announced that our time was over and so they put on a final show. I forget all the details, but the finale involved them getting naked and giving us all BBBJs in the room, LOL. But that said, almost all of my mongering activities in Korea was with someone else that knew the ropes, so I just tagged along for the fun ride. But it was just a crazy scene. I remember many nights before we went out drinking, we would go to a brothel and screw, and then go out drinking and eating, and end up at another brothel before going back to the hotel or just ordering outcall to the hotel, or order room service from the hotel SPA. In those days, almost every hotel's SPA had room service.

One unique thing about Korea is that they have Kiss Bangs (kiss rooms). You pick a girl, you go to a little room together, both brush your teeth and rinse with mouthwash, and then make out for 30 minutes. LOL, how crazy is that? But it was pretty awesome.

You're an obvious foreigner. I'm surprised you weren't approached by pimps on the street outside your hotel. That happened to me a lot, but I never talked to them since I was already set.

But again, maybe the scene isn't crazy as it used to be, but when I look at the Seoul thread, it brings back fond memories and I oftentimes get jealous.

Maybe I just got lucky that I had locals (work-related colleagues) that helped me.

WyattEarp
10-15-20, 03:59
I agree with Brizlad. Asia should be on every monger's bucket list. In addition to what Brizlad recommended, I would add Thailand. Places like Singapore, China, and HK are going downhill with respect to mongering, IMHO, but they are still decent. And places like Japan and Korea are still pretty strong for our hobby.Since it appears you are talking about the broader P4P category, has Hong Kong really gone downhill? For some reason, the Wan Chai hooker club scene has gone downhill. However, the walk-up scene had seemed to be going strong. I do realize the HK walk-up scene is impersonal and kind of wham-bam thank you ma'am affair. It is kind of fun though.

Midwestern
10-15-20, 12:11
This will come off as a huge generalization, but so be it: Japanese and Korean doods are some of the horniest guys on the planet, so you know those countries have to have amazing mongering opportunities. Pretty much all Japanese and Korean wives just accept that their husbands are screwing pros regularly. But again, probably a generalization.

I went to Korea for the first time in 1999, and then work kept putting me back in Korea through 2003, so my experience may seem outdated, but I sometimes look at the Seoul thread and it looks like it's still a mongering hotspot (pre-covid, of course).

I remember one time, at a KTV, the girls announced that our time was over and so they put on a final show. I forget all the details, but the finale involved them getting naked and giving us all BBBJs in the room, LOL. But that said, almost all of my mongering activities in Korea was with someone else that knew the ropes, so I just tagged along for the fun ride. But it was just a crazy scene. I remember many nights before we went out drinking, we would go to a brothel and screw, and then go out drinking and eating, and end up at another brothel before going back to the hotel or just ordering outcall to the hotel, or order room service from the hotel SPA. In those days, almost every hotel's SPA had room service.

One unique thing about Korea is that they have Kiss Bangs (kiss rooms). You pick a girl, you go to a little room together, both brush your teeth and rinse with mouthwash, and then make out for 30 minutes. LOL, how crazy is that? But it was pretty awesome.

You're an obvious foreigner. I'm surprised you weren't approached by pimps on the street outside your hotel. That happened to me a lot, but I never talked to them since I was already set.

But again, maybe the scene isn't crazy as it used to be, but when I look at the Seoul thread, it brings back fond memories and I oftentimes get jealous.

Maybe I just got lucky that I had locals (work-related colleagues) that helped me.I forgot to mention the "sports massage. " Did you see those? I'm not 100% sure, but I think "sports massage" is code for "sauna. " Every sports massage place that I ever went into was a sauna experience. Girl bathes with you, then gives you a massage, then takes off her clothes and etc. And it ends with FS.

In 2004, my territory got switched to Singapore, but I went back to Korea in 2009 or 2010, and it seemed like the scene was still the same. However, I have to admit that most of my mongering in Korea was KTVs that my work related friends took me too. It's the usual drill: after the KTV, you negotiate with the manager to take the girl back to the hotel with you for overnight.

But I guess long story short on Korea is that I got lucky with my Korean friends taking care of me.

BTW, Singapore in the mid-2000's was also amazing. Orchard Towers is known as the "four floors of (rhymes with hoars)." It is a building with a dozen bars, and most of the bars were take out places. Almost every shopping center had a "health center," on the top floor, which was a FS MP / sauna, and then there was the Geylang District. Oh, man, that was quite a scene in those days. Hundreds of pros on the streets. Indos on one street. Malays on another. Indians on another. Chinese on another. Etc. The prices were amazingly low. Maybe around $60 for an hour. And a ST hotel was $20 per hour. Singapore isn't like that anymore. I would no longer recommend it as a mongering destination. But now I digress. Sorry.

Steve 9696
10-15-20, 13:23
This will come off as a huge generalization, but so be it: Japanese and Korean doods are some of the horniest guys on the planet, so you know those countries have to have amazing mongering opportunities. Pretty much all Japanese and Korean wives just accept that their husbands are screwing pros regularly. But again, probably a generalization.

I went to Korea for the first time in 1999, and then work kept putting me back in Korea through 2003, so my experience may seem outdated, but I sometimes look at the Seoul thread and it looks like it's still a mongering hotspot (pre-covid, of course).

I remember one time, at a KTV, the girls announced that our time was over and so they put on a final show. I forget all the details, but the finale involved them getting naked and giving us all BBBJs in the room, LOL. But that said, almost all of my mongering activities in Korea was with someone else that knew the ropes, so I just tagged along for the fun ride. But it was just a crazy scene. I remember many nights before we went out drinking, we would go to a brothel and screw, and then go out drinking and eating, and end up at another brothel before going back to the hotel or just ordering outcall to the hotel, or order room service from the hotel SPA. In those days, almost every hotel's SPA had room service.

One unique thing about Korea is that they have Kiss Bangs (kiss rooms). You pick a girl, you go to a little room together, both brush your teeth and rinse with mouthwash, and then make out for 30 minutes. LOL, how crazy is that? But it was pretty awesome.

You're an obvious foreigner. I'm surprised you weren't approached by pimps on the street outside your hotel. That happened to me a lot, but I never talked to them since I was already set.

But again, maybe the scene isn't crazy as it used to be, but when I look at the Seoul thread, it brings back fond memories and I oftentimes get jealous.

Maybe I just got lucky that I had locals (work-related colleagues) that helped me.First I got to agree with your generalization. I know the PC world wants to say people are all the same but they aren't. And I know quite a few asian guys who have told me straight up it's as you say. It's culturally different there. That said in Korea you need an in in order to play in that world. Even tho it's tamer these days; I am sure it's still off the hook for the locals. But they don't let foreigners crack the shell. That's why your experience was so different. You had an in sounds totally awesome.

In Taiwan I was able to get a Line broker and arrange Karaoke under heavy security no joke all thanks to a connection I made here on ISG. Without that Taiwan is a chaste ghost town. Same for Seoul. Just never cracked the shell.

WyattEarp
10-15-20, 14:20
First I got to agree with your generalization. I know the PC world wants to say people are all the same but they aren't. And I know quite a few asian guys who have told me straight up it's as you say. It's culturally different there.Midwestern is an expert on Asia. On my few business trips to Asia, my male colleagues essentially compartmentalize their extracurricular sex lives from their wives and family. It's all quite accepted including formal mistresses. It is a cultural aspect different from what we know in Western society.

Midwestern
10-16-20, 02:07
That said in Korea you need an in in order to play in that world. Even tho it's tamer these days; I am sure it's still off the hook for the locals. But they don't let foreigners crack the shell. That's why your experience was so different. You had an in sounds totally awesome.Yeah, you're right. In the past couple of days, I started recalling my experiences in Korea, and I also recalled at least a half dozen episodes of racism towards me, because I'm a foreigner. So, I bet it is hard to monger as a foreigner in Korea without "an in. " Koreans are quite nationalistic, and it might be one of the most racists places on earth. I recall one of my Korean friends telling me that it goes back to Korea being occupied by the Japanese, and so Koreans are fiercely about Koreans, especially with our generation.

Pessimist
10-16-20, 03:53
Hi Pessimist,

Thank you for your very valid advice and apologies for my delayed reply. Being a pessimist like you and an over-planner, I am on the same page. I have around 10 girls who are willing to meet during the 5 days with most willing to spend the night and the rest want to spend at least a couple of hours. For the ones that I really like, I am in regular touch on whassapp to groom them a little bit and try to see which one has a high possibility of flaking out. My backup plan in case one flakes out on a day is a really nice brothel with great girls which I used to frequent during my previous visits to Lisbon, so if someone flakes out, I would at least have some place to release the load. Failing that, there is a nice outcall agency with a good number of highly reviewed girls. Your advice about lining up two girls in one evening is interesting and I will see if I can implement it.

Since Corona was rising fast in Lisbon, I also looked at Germany the past few days as an alternative if it is no longer feasible / too risky to fly to Lisbon last minute due to high number of cases. Germany is easily reachable for me and does not require flights. Same strategy in Germany, line up at least double the number of girls as days, amd stay in touch on whassapp with the high potential ones, reconfirming with them multiple times they are still planning to meet. Lets see where I end up, Lisbon or Germany. Going to decide on Sunday. Bad thing about Germany is that I do not know the mongering scene as good as I know Lisbon, so high chances of ending up with blue balls if someone stands me up.

Hit a huge blocker today when my SA account was blocked only after a week from activation. Reason was: "solicitation of prostitution". I talked to cust service and they said that they had multiple verified reports of me trying to exchange sex for money, which of course is what I was doing. Since I was being a little bit explicit with girls (did not mention sex, but things like 'doing what people do to make babies, except we are not going to make babies' maybe someone got offended and reported me. In addition, I had something like "looking for PPM arrangements" in my profile description. The cust service also said that I was banned from creating a profile on SA ever and if I did, they would pursue the case with legal authorities. Fortunately, I had moved most conversations to whassapp so most of the arrangements in Lisbon and Germany are not affected. Although there was a cutie in Germany whose number I do not have and I am fuming.

My question is, has this happened with anyone? And do you think I should take the risk to create the profile again? Also, if I create it again, what precautions should I take? I know I should move the conversation from SA to other mediums ASAP, but what is acceptable or not acceptable to discuss on SA? I learnt the lesson about profile description and going to mention anything about PPM if I create the profile again.Oh no. Very sorry to hear. I guess that means you lost your 80 or 90 bucks fee to the site? That is a bit crummy on their part keeping the money and revoking your subscription.

SA kicks girls out extremely frequently. I lost count of how many girls said to me that their account got suspended. (I have directly been responsible for getting one girl kicked off the site at least 30 times. She is a scammer, and every time I spot her I immediately flag her to the admin and they do listen to me / perhaps others also who may be complaining and she is kicked out but she gets a new name and resurfaces on the site in less than a week. It has become a bit of joke). Many girls get their account suspended because guys complain about them about anything silly, or the admin does not like something has in her profile, etc. Girls do not pay, it doesn't cost them anything (except contacts), and if the girl is serious and dedicated, she will reestablish a new account and is back on the site. Sometimes, it also happens that the girl's account is suspended temporarily but the admin reinstates their accounts back after some quick verification.

Generally SA admin is far more tolerant of the guys because we pay. They hate to lose paying subscribers. I have been on the site for more than 4, nearing 5 years now and never had any problems. For the last couple of months I am no longer paying though, as my 3 month subscription ran out and I did not renew it as I am not looking to meet any girls until the pandemic is over / a reliable vaccine is fully available.

I am surprised they revoked your subscription. Of course I don't know what all the guys are saying to the girls. But several sugarbabes that I met have told me that by and large more than 50% of messages they receive are pretty nasty, explicit, etc. Yet SA admins don't seem to be kicking out such guys form the site.

My guess is that they cut your subscription because you had explicit discussion of money for sex. If you had said "oh baby, you look so hot, you make me horny, I want to lick your pussy, fuck you in the ass, fill you up with my hot goo, blah blah" they are OK with that even though the girl might find it disgusting. But if you say "I will give you 150 bucks if you will provide BJ", although what you said is far more respectful than the prior dialog, it is considered solicitation. SA is trying hard to not get taken down like backpage, so they will not allow it.

Normally, I stay away from all references to sex. When the girls ask, I say "yes, I give allowance". When they say how much I may say "well, it depends but in the past it has ranged between 200 to 300 a week". If the girl says what do you expect from me for that money, I will say "I just want to get to know you, have an enjoyable time and hope we are both happy". If she presses "what will we do when we meet" I say "it depends on what we each like, no two meets are identical as every girl likes something different". Basically, I refuse to get pinned down. Any girl with some brain realizes that 200 is a large enough amount that sex is to be expected. In any case, if she misunderstood and tells me "no sex" after we are in the room, I will of course not give her 200 or 300 or whatever; she will be sent back with nothing.

I am also surprised about PPM getting you into trouble. A lot of girls also have PPM in their profile description. If there is no sex, then it is absolutely legal to give her money on a per meet basis. It is the combination of PPM and sex that makes it illegal. But yeah, instead of PPM, you might say "will give allowance". In the discussion, you can talk how the allowance works.

I realize you were trying to be more obvious because you had a short amount of time and you are trying to close the deal with certainty. This is the pitfall of short term visits when on the road. If you were living in Lisbon permanently, you can take your time and be very discreet in how you say things in discussions.

Also, I am curious if SA has the same rules in all countries. I always wondered about this and don't know the answer. For instance, in a country where prostitution is quite legal, why should SA ban anyone when they discuss money for sex? Say, Germany. Prostitution is quite legal. If a German guy proposes money for sex on SA, will the SA admin kick out the guy? On what basis? What if an American dude proposes money for sex on SA to a German girl? It is illegal for the American but legal for the German girl. So, perhaps they will stop it. What if the American dude is visiting Germany, finds a German local girl while he is in DE and proposes money for sex? Technically, it should be legal as both parties are located in DE where prostitution is legal. But in all this, does SA know where the guy and girl are located? I don't think so. They don't have location specific information on all the parties all the time. SO, my guess is, they just are putting a blanket ban on any dialog of money for sex.

Lesson learned. Hope it works out for you whether you get back on SA again, or with the girls you already have in hand. Good luck.

Akibono
10-16-20, 04:22
Yeah, you're right. In the past couple of days, I started recalling my experiences in Korea, and I also recalled at least a half dozen episodes of racism towards me, because I'm a foreigner. So, I bet it is hard to monger as a foreigner in Korea without "an in. " Koreans are quite nationalistic, and it might be one of the most racists places on earth. I recall one of my Korean friends telling me that it goes back to Korea being occupied by the Japanese, and so Koreans are fiercely about Koreans, especially with our generation.Most countries are protective of their women. They do not like rich foreigners outbidding them. The US has had a presence in Korea since the Korean war. Those soldiers bang the local women. When Korea was poor, they accepted it because they needed the money. Now they are rich and do not have to submit to that. Call it nationalism or racism. Plus, there is a perception that foreigners introduce disease so they are generally considered not welcome. In Korea and Japan, going to a brothel is like taking your friends to a bar or a strip club in the US. It is a form of male bonding. The only difference is they don't have an obsession on size like the US. There is also not a culture of feminism, but that too is changing. There is also a difference approach to sex. Sex is viewed more as pleasure a woman gives to a man. The man is more passive. The women is there to please you. The west looks at sex more like a conquest of women and what you can do to them.

Bdb013
10-16-20, 16:26
First and foremost, SA is my go to here in the states and internationally. I am planning a trip to Puebla Mexico in two weeks. I have been active on SA for about 2 weeks now in Puebla. It's like shooting fish in a barrel. I can never get to all the girls that want to see me while I am there. SA is a little expensive and takes a little work, but well worth it in my opinion. Does anyone have any go to's in Puebla? I don't want to miss out on the best.

Steve 9696
10-16-20, 18:26
Hi Pessimist,

Thank you for your very valid advice and apologies for my delayed reply. Being a pessimist like you and an over-planner, I am on the same page. I have around 10 girls who are willing to meet during the 5 days with most willing to spend the night and the rest want to spend at least a couple of hours. For the ones that I really like, I am in regular touch on whassapp to groom them a little bit and try to see which one has a high possibility of flaking out. My backup plan in case one flakes out on a day is a really nice brothel with great girls which I used to frequent during my previous visits to Lisbon, so if someone flakes out, I would at least have some place to release the load. Failing that, there is a nice outcall agency with a good number of highly reviewed girls. Your advice about lining up two girls in one evening is interesting and I will see if I can implement it.

Since Corona was rising fast in Lisbon, I also looked at Germany the past few days as an alternative if it is no longer feasible / too risky to fly to Lisbon last minute due to high number of cases. Germany is easily reachable for me and does not require flights. Same strategy in Germany, line up at least double the number of girls as days, amd stay in touch on whassapp with the high potential ones, reconfirming with them multiple times they are still planning to meet. Lets see where I end up, Lisbon or Germany. Going to decide on Sunday. Bad thing about Germany is that I do not know the mongering scene as good as I know Lisbon, so high chances of ending up with blue balls if someone stands me up.

Hit a huge blocker today when my SA account was blocked only after a week from activation. Reason was: "solicitation of prostitution". I talked to cust service and they said that they had multiple verified reports of me trying to exchange sex for money, which of course is what I was doing. Since I was being a little bit explicit with girls (did not mention sex, but things like 'doing what people do to make babies, except we are not going to make babies' maybe someone got offended and reported me. In addition, I had something like "looking for PPM arrangements" in my profile description. The cust service also said that I was banned from creating a profile on SA ever and if I did, they would pursue the case with legal authorities. Fortunately, I had moved most conversations to whassapp so most of the arrangements in Lisbon and Germany are not affected. Although there was a cutie in Germany whose number I do not have and I am fuming.

My question is, has this happened with anyone? And do you think I should take the risk to create the profile again? Also, if I create it again, what precautions should I take? I know I should move the conversation from SA to other mediums ASAP, but what is acceptable or not acceptable to discuss on SA? I learnt the lesson about profile description and going to mention anything about PPM if I create the profile again.SA specifically frowns on PPM because it smacks of prostitution. So everyone should avoid that word. Girls don't like it anyhow (unless they are pros). It's always a gift / allowance. And definitely don't be so explicit as "making babies". Private time, intimate time, room time, adult time. They will al work equally well. I usually say "if we really like each other like I think we will we will want to go private. " Or "do what adults do when they like each other". They know what you are talking about.

Best of course to take it off SA.

Bdb013
10-16-20, 19:46
SA specifically frowns on PPM because it smacks of prostitution. So everyone should avoid that word. Girls don't like it anyhow (unless they are pros). It's always a gift / allowance. And definitely don't be so explicit as "making babies". Private time, intimate time, room time, adult time. They will al work equally well. I usually say "if we really like each other like I think we will we will want to go private. " Or "do what adults do when they like each other". They know what you are talking about.

Best of course to take it off SA.I never, never talk money or sex on SA. I tell them I would love to see them. Get their text number. And have those conversations. I have been using SA for years.

Pessimist
10-16-20, 21:01
Yep, lesson learnt definitely! Unfortunately an expensive lesson. Definitely going to be more subtle on SA in future and going to take the conversation to other mediums ASAP. So if I understand correctly, you know of people creating other profiles after getting banned and SA not being able to judge that this was the same person? Any legal or criminal action seems a very long shot if this is the case.Only women. I don't know any other men. But yes, women are kicked out quite frequently. Often for no reason whatsoever, because the site is not very stable. But girls do not pay, so no loss for them. Sometimes, the site reinstates their membership on their own; sometimes, the girl takes a new membership (free of course) with a new name.

I doubt that they will file any legal suit which is expensive for them as well. One thing I know, the site hates to lose paying customers and hates to spend money. But the mere threat of such legal action is enough to deter most violators. Also, they can refer you to local police if it comes to it. Even that is not something they prefer in my view because it is unwanted attention. If you use a new name and cut out all references to sex / money exchange, then they should let you live in peace.

Midwestern
10-17-20, 02:17
Given the recent experience of JackOfNone, with him being kicked off of SA, it makes me wonder if there is a near perfect substitute for SA.

When I was on SA a few years ago, I remember there was another site that was doing the same thing. I looked at it, and to my surprise, many of the SBs on SA were also on this other website too. I forget the name of this other site.

I just googled sugar baby dating just now, and it looks like there are several alternatives. However, rather than do a deep dive due diligence research of these other sites, I figured it would be more useful to tap the experience and expertise of the members of this forum.

Anyone know of a good alternative to SA? Especially something that can be used in many different countries, like SA? People reporting on their personal experiences on an alternative site, especially when it was used abroad, would be particularly appreciated.

For me, the reason I ask is not just for JackOfNone, but also for myself. I recently tried to reactivate my old SA subscription, but I got blocked. I was trying to renew it from Shanghai, and so maybe the VPN triggered the block. I realize that I can contact customer service, but now I am thinking about trying out another site.

TIA.

Pessimist
10-17-20, 03:59
In my view, the strength of local listings is most important. If a sugar daddy site has 10,000 babes in Munich but only a few hundred in my home city, it does not help me much. I have only used secret benefits and sugardaddy.com, and only for short periods. I didn't like the usage based pricing on secret benefits and the quality and quantity of girls was worse than on SA. That was 3 years ago, and things may have improved. I also did not travel when I had secret benefits subscription and who knows if it had better listings in other cities. This is why I think it is important for guys to check out sites which are good in their area. I like SA, it has a good number of girls and quality is good. Granted many "girls" are scammers but that may be true on other sugarbabe sites as well. How can a site weed out scammer girls anyway? They can demand to see full identification before allowing a girl to obtain account but that may deter many girls to not join the site at all.

I feel for Jack, but in reality that may happen on other sites as well. Sites want to stay alive and not be shut down by LE. If solicitation happens on the site openly, it is at big risk. The site owners are making ridiculous amounts of money. They would do anything to keep that money coming in, so it is in their interest to remove even traces of solicitation and make it appear like SA is very clean.

BFsie is not in this thread I guess but he is a long time user of sugarbabe babes and he is in DE I think. I don't know if SA is the best site to use in DE. They may have a local site which is better than SA. Guys should do their own research and see what works for them locally.

WyattEarp
10-17-20, 17:17
Getting banned on SA for being too forward in a quest for sex seems to be a common mistake. I've read about this happening to several men on several forums discussing SA. The contradictions on the SA site are everywhere. You have sexy, young girls posting bikini shots "Seeking. Friend with benefits, No strings attached, Discretion". It's easy to get confused about the mating dance on the site.

It's easy to make assumptions like "everyone knows what the site is for". Yet, there are girls declaring they are only seeking platonic relationships. Then there are older women who seem to be looking only for some attention. Since it has been said the woman don't pay to post their profile, I guess it's always going to be a very mixed bag of intentions from the women on the site. They can give anything a shot when it don't cost nothin'.

As has been mentioned you have to anticipate ASD (anti-**** defenses) and gently navigate them. I have given Steve repeated credit for this adage, but it still makes sense to keep the money as far away as possible from the sex. I am a SA apprentice, but I have been in these type of relationships overseas. Gifts, allowances, help with living expenses, whatever you want to call it, make the arrangement acceptable to the young women.

Pessimist
10-17-20, 19:07
I have very limited experience compared to all of you experienced guys, but here goes my 2 cents. The local sugar website in my local country doesn't hold a candle to seeking. The girls on SA are much, much more DTF and don't mind talking about short arrangements right away. They are also much more beautiful. I know the bait-and-switch about the photoshopped photos, but you can just immediately see the difference right away. Its like everyone knows exactly why they are here. Whereas on the local site (where I spent a couple of months), a lot of girls were just curious or get offended when you try to steer the conversation towards sex. Maybe I am just not that patient haha. In my opinion, if you are trying to build a long term thing, my country's local website is an option. But if you are looking to fuck in the not so far future, SA all the way.Did SA have more girls in your local city than the native sugar babe site you tried in your local city?

My guess is that SA being the most popular site, has reasonably good number of girl listings in many major European cities but US still has the most listings (not sure if Canada does too). I just did a spot check how many girls are on the site at this minute in my city and a few large European cities. Within a radius of 50 miles, I counted 220+ women in my city (no filters; I. E. All ages, ethnicity, shapes and sizes). When I did the same spot check in 5,6 European cities on SA, at the moment less than 20 to 40 girls were present. Madrid had 130 but Madrid is much bigger than where I live. Also, there are 6 to 7 hours time difference between where I live to these European cities. My experience is that most girls login to the site in the evenings, whereas it is approximately 1 PM in the afternoon here.

SA and sugarbabe is largely a US phenomenon. Much like match.com began here, most of the social media, and other such technologies were born here. It may be that locals are less familiar with the concept of internet matched sugar babe / daddy in many other places such as Europe. Numbers may increase in future. In my own experience, I see many more girls on SA in both my own city and also in many European cities now than there used to be in the past. 4 years ago, the number of available girls were absolutely far fewer than now.

I also get the sense that SA caters to American / English speak men to a larger extent. The traveling American male so to speak. Many girls in non English speaking countries go out of their way to let us know they can speak English and even write their profile description in English. Why would they need to do it if their primary clientele is a non English speaking local man? There must be a lot of Americans on the road and these girls target such men as main customers / daddies.

Steve 9696
10-19-20, 03:17
I am planning a weekend trip soon to another city. I've been cruising SA and of course working the usual angles. A few promising prospects. Plus Layla wants to go with me but I am not sure that's worth it. And I have another new local prospect but after an amazing first date she dodged a kiss and has been luke warm.

So I figure no harm just pinging Alexa (Vegas December) and saying hey want to fly to xxx and meet me for the weekend? Just a flyer to keep my options open. Gave it a one in ten chance.

Boom. She's like absolutely! Flights are booked and hotel is booked. It was two hours from "crazy idea" to seeing Alexa for a weekend. Sure pays to have the Rolodex! Totally stoked.

Midwestern
10-19-20, 10:24
I am planning a weekend trip soon to another city. I've been cruising SA and of course working the usual angles. A few promising prospects. Plus Layla wants to go with me but I am not sure that's worth it. And I have another new local prospect but after an amazing first date she dodged a kiss and has been luke warm.

So I figure no harm just pinging Alexa (Vegas December) and saying hey want to fly to xxx and meet me for the weekend? Just a flyer to keep my options open. Gave it a one in ten chance.

Boom. She's like absolutely! Flights are booked and hotel is booked. It was two hours from "crazy idea" to seeing Alexa for a weekend. Sure pays to have the Rolodex! Totally stoked.Good move, man. Have fun. I always feel that once you fucked a girl once, then you can usually fuck them again. Even when a year or two goes by. Even if she gets married or has a BF later. It's weird, man. It's almost as if the girl thinks, "I fucked him already, so what's the big deal if we fuck again. ".

WyattEarp
10-19-20, 14:16
Good move, man. Have fun. I always feel that once you fucked a girl once, then you can usually fuck them again. Even when a year or two goes by. Even if she gets married or has a BF later. It's weird, man. It's almost as if the girl thinks, "I fucked him already, so what's the big deal if we fuck again. ".Haha, so true. That's why you can hook-up with ex-GFs. They're horny and it doesn't add to their "number".

Midwestern
10-20-20, 09:32
Since it appears you are talking about the broader P4P category, has Hong Kong really gone downhill? For some reason, the Wan Chai hooker club scene has gone downhill. However, the walk-up scene had seemed to be going strong. I do realize the HK walk-up scene is impersonal and kind of wham-bam thank you ma'am affair. It is kind of fun though.Your assessment of the HK scene is spot on, IMO. I was in HK last year, and the Wan Chai club scene was dead. A caveat is that I was there a bit early, around 11 pm and on a weekday, but it still means that it isn't what it used to be.

The MP scene is just horrible.

But the walkups (though it's now getting harder to find gems) and also the 141 action are still hopping.

So, overall, I couldn't recommend HK just for the walkups and the 141 scene.

BTW, if you guys haven't tried the 141 scene, you guys are missing out on a very unusual and crazy way to monger. This is off topic, so I won't bother describing it unless there's a request.

ErsatzJulian
10-20-20, 09:55
Your assessment of the HK scene is spot on, IMO. I was in HK last year, and the Wan Chai club scene was dead. A caveat is that I was there a bit early, around 11 pm and on a weekday, but it still means that it isn't what it used to be.

The MP scene is just horrible.

But the walkups (though it's now getting harder to find gems) and also the 141 action are still hopping.

So, overall, I couldn't recommend HK just for the walkups and the 141 scene.

BTW, if you guys haven't tried the 141 scene, you guys are missing out on a very unusual and crazy way to monger. This is off topic, so I won't bother describing it unless there's a request.Please, do share.

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Steve 9696
10-20-20, 12:32
Your assessment of the HK scene is spot on, IMO. I was in HK last year, and the Wan Chai club scene was dead. A caveat is that I was there a bit early, around 11 pm and on a weekday, but it still means that it isn't what it used to be.

The MP scene is just horrible.

But the walkups (though it's now getting harder to find gems) and also the 141 action are still hopping.

So, overall, I couldn't recommend HK just for the walkups and the 141 scene.

BTW, if you guys haven't tried the 141 scene, you guys are missing out on a very unusual and crazy way to monger. This is off topic, so I won't bother describing it unless there's a request.Do tell. What is 141 and is it unique to HK?

Jackthelad2
10-20-20, 13:06
Do tell. What is 141 and is it unique to HK?Google "Fuji Building, Hong Kong" or "141" with sex just before it.


These are skyscraper blocks full of small rooms (brothels) all over the place. All legal in HK. To be seen to be believed. Not aware there are located in any other place.

Pessimist
10-20-20, 14:23
Google "Fuji Building, Hong Kong" or "141" with sex just before it.
.Thanks! I watched a couple of Youtube videos; the rooms look dingy and the "girls" not my type. Looks like a 1970's movie scene depicting an AMP, tbh. I guess if I were a permanent HK resident with no other sex avenue I might consider it as a last minute desperate measure but when I watch this Fuji building I realized how good are the FKKs and how much I miss them. For that matter, even in HK I will look to find sugar babes if I am stuck there for a long time (and assuming I have the confidence the local commies will not throw me in jail on one pretext or other).

WyattEarp
10-20-20, 19:43
Do tell. What is 141 and is it unique to HK?I'm not a total expert on the HK scene, but 141 is an ad website and "141 girls" seems to also be a nickname for the girls in the walkups. I don't know which came first. 141 has escort ads, but it is also is ubiquitous for promoting the walkup building girls.

You basically walk around a building with girls in small dorms some with a small shower. There's prices posted on the door. You knock on the door. If you don't like what you see, you say thank you and move to the next. It's mostly Asian girls, but a few Russian girls seem to be in the Fuji building. It's definitely wham-bam thank you ma'am.

WyattEarp
10-20-20, 20:09
Thanks! I watched a couple of Youtube videos; the rooms look dingy and the "girls" not my type. Looks like a 1970's movie scene depicting an AMP, tbh. I guess if I were a permanent HK resident with no other sex avenue I might consider it as a last minute desperate measure but when I watch this Fuji building I realized how good are the FKKs and how much I miss them. For that matter, even in HK I will look to find sugar babes if I am stuck there for a long time (and assuming I have the confidence the local commies will not throw me in jail on one pretext or other).The 141 walk-up girls are definitely do your deed move on. You can also get a so-so massage before or after if you want some relaxation.

I'm fine with the Fuji Building (the best looking girls IMHO) on the island side and 33-35 Carnavon Road (decent girls) with ground floor 7-11 store on the Kowloon side. The rooms are decorated cutesy with stuff posted on the wall like what you would expect from young girls. The rooms usually have single beds. These two buildings seem like a women's dorm to me. I think many of the girls live there during their days working. Nothing fancy, but serviceable.

Believe me, there are some hellhole walk-up buildings around HK. If you like adventure and the feeling you are doing an illicit deed in a 1950's gritty black and white movie, those buildings are for you.

If you have any questions, I can try to answer them via PM.

Nounce
10-20-20, 23:01
Thanks! I watched a couple of Youtube videos; the rooms look dingy and the "girls" not my type. Looks like a 1970's movie scene depicting an AMP, tbh. I guess if I were a permanent HK resident with no other sex avenue I might consider it as a last minute desperate measure but when I watch this Fuji building I realized how good are the FKKs and how much I miss them. For that matter, even in HK I will look to find sugar babes if I am stuck there for a long time (and assuming I have the confidence the local commies will not throw me in jail on one pretext or other).The building is old but the rooms are relatively clean with shower.

BrizLad
10-20-20, 23:32
Good move, man. Have fun. I always feel that once you fucked a girl once, then you can usually fuck them again. Even when a year or two goes by. Even if she gets married or has a BF later. It's weird, man. It's almost as if the girl thinks, "I fucked him already, so what's the big deal if we fuck again. ".Well the vegas girl is possibly more "professional" and he is prepared to pay which is more than we would do for a bitter ex-GF.

Of course, I too like to keep my free ex-GF open but for me I have found that they need to have 'moved-on' and be with a new partner. If they are single and looking then they think my rekindled interest is more than sex.

Pessimist
10-20-20, 23:57
The building is old but the rooms are relatively clean with shower.Sorry, didn't mean to come across as snotty and judgmental. You are right, the corridors did not look inviting. Did not get a good look at the rooms. But anyway, I guess I am spoiled by large FKKs. Not even all the FKKs are that good, with regards to facilities for that matter.

Midwestern
10-21-20, 00:59
Depictions of the 141 scene from WyattEarp are pretty spot on. Here's my take.

First, a little backstory: 141 refers to the code in HK law regarding prostitution. It allows a girl to sell sex for money. However, it is illegal for a business to sell sex, or for girls to get together to sell sex. Therefore, any girl that sells sex has to do it on her own. Well, talk about unintended consequences, but it gave rise to the 141 scene, which are apartment buildings with lots of studio apartments with individual girls selling sex. These apartments are all over HK. There are maybe several dozens of them, maybe more. In these apartments, more than half of the residents are real residents. But on many floors, many or all of the units are occupied by 141 girls. Some buildings may have up to several dozen 141 girls living or working in them.

You can always tell which floor has 141 girls, because there will be pink lights or other decorations on the halls, and there will be ads and pricing on the doors. Sometimes, there are pictures of the girls on the door. The prices are quite good, about 400-800 HKD for around 45 minutes, depending on what you're looking for (500 HKD is about $60, and prices might be a bit higher now).

Yes, there are 141 websites, where girls place ads and addresses and prices, and where you can also see monger reviews. I used to do research on these sites before I headed out, but that's a waste of time in my honest opinion. The reason is because all the positively reviewed girls will be busy with customers, sometimes with a line waiting out her door. So, what you have to do is just knock on doors and see who opens it. You have to make a quick decision on the spot: walk into her room, or say sorry and walk away. The only reasons to do research ahead of time is to make sure which buildings have 141 girls and get the addresses, and also to make sure you know where the building entrance is, because most apartment buildings don't have an obvious entrance.

So, this is why the 141 scene is crazy. You go to an apartment building, and the best thing do is to take an elevator to the top floor. From the top floor, you walk downstairs, and check out each floor. When you get to a floor with 141 girls, you will see the lights and the decorations and the ads, and you will start seeing other mongers. You start looking at the doors. Not only are there prices and maybe pictures, but they will also indicate whether they are busy with a client. If they are available, and you like what you see on the door, then you knock. Then, a girl opens the door. Walk in or walk away. Most of the time, every girl will be busy with a customer, even during the day and on a weekday. So, you go to the next floor. As you can imagine, part of what makes this scene crazy is that as you walk the stairs, you go past many other mongers, all looking for the same thing. It's the same with the floors. On each floor, there are a half dozen guys walking around, looking at doors, and some are even waiting in line (in fact, I waited in line one time, and it was well worth it). Many of these mongers are college students and locals, but there are some foreigners and expats, but mostly college students or locals. When you finally see some doors indicating that they are available, you knock, and most of the time, I will walk away. They may be not my type. So, I usually end up walking all the way from the top floor to the bottom floor, completely striking out. At this point, I might try a different building, but I will usually start all over again and take the elevator to the top floor. I will also think about the number of girls that I walked away from, and try to remember who was the best of the bunch and try to go back to her door (usually, when I return, she is now busy, yes, that's how active this scene is). And, on the second go, I will start knocking on every available door, without having any idea what's behind it. Eventually, maybe after I have done 2 or 3 rounds of going up and down the building, and after having knocked on maybe two dozen doors, I settle on someone. Once inside, the routine is you pick what you want on the menu, then shower together, then do the deed, then leave. Usually done within 45 minutes. Believe it or not, the service is quite good, probably because the girls know they are being reviewed on the 141 websites. I did a lot of 6's and 7's this way, and always paid less than $100 each time. Sometimes, I got lucky with an 8. Almost every single time, I thought the outing was worth it.

The next day, my legs are sore as hell from walking the stairs.

Again, I wouldn't recommend the 141 scene for the sex. I just think it's a crazy surreal experience. Something you should try if you get the chance, just for the experience.

Steve 9696
10-21-20, 03:30
Well the vegas girl is possibly more "professional" and he is prepared to pay which is more than we would do for a bitter ex-GF.

Of course, I too like to keep my free ex-GF open but for me I have found that they need to have 'moved-on' and be with a new partner. If they are single and looking then they think my rekindled interest is more than sex.Actually Alexa is decidedly non-pro and that's one of the things I like about her. She works in IT and makes pretty good money. I am paying her an allowance of course. But she's not all about that. When I said I could gift her X or maybe Y she said either is fine.

She's got a good head on her shoulders. A little flighty with astrology and such but has a life plan and saves money and just moved to a new apt. I helped her buy her first ETF. LOL.

She's actually not tops in my book for sex (high bar!) but took direction on the BBBJ well and is a real trooper. And DAMN she is fine. High eight face and a banging 9 body. Second finest ass on planet earth. And she literally has no idea. U know how some girls that are good looking (most?) use it like a weapon? Not her. She has no idea how fine she is. Shes just a regular girl next door whos pretty much a nine. LOL.

So yeah. Stoked.

Thampi62
10-21-20, 05:19
Google "Fuji Building, Hong Kong" or "141" with sex just before it.


These are skyscraper blocks full of small rooms (brothels) all over the place. All legal in HK. To be seen to be believed. Not aware there are located in any other place.Great information. Read it as a paradise for mongers in HK.

Thampi62
10-21-20, 05:26
Thanks! I watched a couple of Youtube videos; the rooms look dingy and the "girls" not my type. Looks like a 1970's movie scene depicting an AMP, tbh. I guess if I were a permanent HK resident with no other sex avenue I might consider it as a last minute desperate measure but when I watch this Fuji building I realized how good are the FKKs and how much I miss them. For that matter, even in HK I will look to find sugar babes if I am stuck there for a long time (and assuming I have the confidence the local commies will not throw me in jail on one pretext or other).Its like Laufhaus in Germany. FKKs are awesome friend, but in between I try laufhaus for a change.

Nounce
10-21-20, 07:41
The prices are quite good, about 400-800 HKD for around 45 minutes, depending on what you're looking for (500 HKD is about $60, and prices might be a bit higher now).
There are also floors for Russians, and Thais. Russians are usually more expensive.


You go to an apartment building, and the best thing do is to take an elevator to the top floor. From the top floor, you walk downstairs, and check out each floor. When you get to a floor with 141 girls,That is why the rent on top floors are much higher.

Also, the room is small, and the shower is very small. Usually there will be a pile of clean towels in the room too. There are video monitors in the room so the girl already know who is outside with door closed. Some South America brothels have a similar setup but it was more like a motel. The main difference being the girls are standing outside the door, and there are bar or stripper pole for show.

Nounce
10-21-20, 07:53
Sorry, didn't mean to come across as snotty and judgmental. You are right, the corridors did not look inviting. Did not get a good look at the rooms. But anyway, I guess I am spoiled by large FKKs. Not even all the FKKs are that good, with regards to facilities for that matter.No worries, I don't get that from your reply. I was trying to be helpful to indicate the difference.

Steve 9696
10-21-20, 16:26
Damn I am getting more down on SA. Maybe I just had a lucky streak. Had such an amazing dinner the other night. Best first date of my life. Just so much in common. She's a stripper and hair dresser so that's promising too. Then pretty much ghosted. Pinged her and she apologized for being busy. But then silence. Pinged again. Ghosted. Damn. Sad about that.

And then last night I was kinda chatting up a hottie in a destination city. Really nice. Went offline. Talked about meeting up someday. Then "I'm hungry and funds are tight. Could you send me some pizza money. " Damn. Said no and was immediately blocked. OMG. Why aren't there girls that just want to fuck for money! (Haha I know what you will say). But I mean like the 18 I had last year. Nice girls. Some extra cash. Great time. Damn frustrated.

Midwestern
10-21-20, 17:26
Damn I am getting more down on SA. Maybe I just had a lucky streak. Had such an amazing dinner the other night. Best first date of my life. Just so much in common. She's a stripper and hair dresser so that's promising too. Then pretty much ghosted. Pinged her and she apologized for being busy. But then silence. Pinged again. Ghosted. Damn. Sad about that.

And then last night I was kinda chatting up a hottie in a destination city. Really nice. Went offline. Talked about meeting up someday. Then "I'm hungry and funds are tight. Could you send me some pizza money. " Damn. Said no and was immediately blocked. OMG. Why aren't there girls that just want to fuck for money! (Haha I know what you will say). But I mean like the 18 I had last year. Nice girls. Some extra cash. Great time. Damn frustrated.This is one reason why I like to fuck for hours when I get the chance, because I sometimes have almost no idea when I might fuck again.

WyattEarp
10-21-20, 18:25
Damn I am getting more down on SA. Maybe I just had a lucky streak. Had such an amazing dinner the other night. Best first date of my life. Just so much in common. She's a stripper and hair dresser so that's promising too. Then pretty much ghosted. Pinged her and she apologized for being busy. But then silence. Pinged again. Ghosted. Damn. Sad about that.

And then last night I was kinda chatting up a hottie in a destination city. Really nice. Went offline. Talked about meeting up someday. Then "I'm hungry and funds are tight. Could you send me some pizza money. " Damn. Said no and was immediately blocked. OMG. Why aren't there girls that just want to fuck for money! (Haha I know what you will say). But I mean like the 18 I had last year. Nice girls. Some extra cash. Great time. Damn frustrated.Come on Steve. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back on that proverbial horse.

SA seems like a big numbers game. I'm sure COVID ain't helping in filtering the sugar bowl.

Steve 9696
10-21-20, 19:50
Come on Steve. Pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back on that proverbial horse.

SA seems like a big numbers game. I'm sure COVID ain't helping in filtering the sugar bowl.Thanks for the encouragement. Yeah getting a bit jaded I suppose. I still have Layla (she's "been sick" the last few days) and I have the awesome trip with Alexa coming up. I really should stop prospecting or at least stop whining about it! Life is good.

DramaFree11
10-21-20, 20:02
Damn I am getting more down on SA. Maybe I just had a lucky streak. Had such an amazing dinner the other night. Best first date of my life. Just so much in common. She's a stripper and hair dresser so that's promising too. Then pretty much ghosted. Pinged her and she apologized for being busy. But then silence. Pinged again. Ghosted. Damn. Sad about that.

And then last night I was kinda chatting up a hottie in a destination city. Really nice. Went offline. Talked about meeting up someday. Then "I'm hungry and funds are tight. Could you send me some pizza money. " Damn. Said no and was immediately blocked. OMG. Why aren't there girls that just want to fuck for money! (Haha I know what you will say). But I mean like the 18 I had last year. Nice girls. Some extra cash. Great time. Damn frus.

SA is touch in the states. A lot of work, but does work. SA is so much better in other countries, due to many factors. I am about ready to get back on in the states, but I know I will just get pissed off. I will just keep working hard then travel to MTY. SA is working so well for me there.

Oneminuteboy
10-21-20, 22:39
This is one reason why I like to fuck for hours when I get the chance, because I sometimes have almost no idea when I might fuck again.It's like I found my long lost twin. Exactly one of the reasons for me as well.

WyattEarp
10-22-20, 14:47
.........SA is touch in the states. A lot of work, but does work. SA is so much better in other countries, due to many factors. I am about ready to get back on in the states, but I know I will just get pissed off.I presume it's the obvious combination of American women placing too much value on their gynecological charms and the strange contradictions in our sexual mores.

Pessimist
10-22-20, 19:48
I presume it's the obvious combination of American women placing too much value on their gynecological charms and the strange contradictions in our sexual mores.Is it much easier to pick up women at bars and restaurants and other places for a free fuck abroad than in US? If so, that would validate your first sentence that American women put too much on their own pussy / tits.

If it is about different amounts of money then yes, US is a pricier country in some respects and women demand a bit more money. Then it is a supply / demand equation.

FKKs with which I am very familiar with are full of Romanian girls. They are giving away suck and fuck for 50 Euros. That would suggest that Romanian girls do not place too much value on their bodies as compared to other country girls. But I heard from mongers who vacationed in Romania that it is not any easier to pick up girls for free fucks in Romania as compared to Germany or in other EU nations.

WyattEarp
10-23-20, 15:10
Is it much easier to pick up women at bars and restaurants and other places for a free fuck abroad than in US? If so, that would validate your first sentence that American women put too much on their own pussy / tits.

If it is about different amounts of money then yes, US is a pricier country in some respects and women demand a bit more money. Then it is a supply / demand equation.

FKKs with which I am very familiar with are full of Romanian girls. They are giving away suck and fuck for 50 Euros. That would suggest that Romanian girls do not place too much value on their bodies as compared to other country girls. But I heard from mongers who vacationed in Romania that it is not any easier to pick up girls for free fucks in Romania as compared to Germany or in other EU nations.As was mentioned earlier about SA in different cities, you can't generalize too much based on a few personal experiences. Casual sex with civilians around the globe is even more difficult to make generalizations. Let's just say it's complicated.

As far as American sexual mores, I think a young American woman might be more reticent to be in a relationship with a man thirty years older. This I feel is not as big an issue in regions like South America and Asia. This might still be true for Eastern Europe as well.

Eastern European women were very open to Americans in the early 1990's. They have become jaded from being overexposed to Western European men. I see this jading in Latin America's major cities. It seems that I had more success meeting civilians in the secondary cities where foreigners were less common.

Oneminuteboy
10-24-20, 21:31
Against all odds I might have found a SB in the Netherlands.

Cute face but not a killer body. Has foreign roots.

She's on a sexual rediscovery journey. So the money is an extra for her.

Super relax and very down to earth. Has many talents and ambitions but hasn't capitalised on them.

We agreed on a PPM and I hope to built this into a long lasting agreement.

Mongerer88
10-25-20, 00:09
As was mentioned earlier about SA in different cities, you can't generalize too much based on a few personal experiences. Casual sex with civilians around the globe is even more difficult to make generalizations. Let's just say it's complicated.

As far as American sexual mores, I think a young American woman might be more reticent to be in a relationship with a man thirty years older. This I feel is not as big an issue in regions like South America and Asia. This might still be true for Eastern Europe as well.

Eastern European women were very open to Americans in the early 1990's. They have become jaded from being overexposed to Western European men. I see this jading in Latin America's major cities. It seems that I had more success meeting civilians in the secondary cities where foreigners were less common.I very much agree.

I angered a poster in the Barcelona forum long ago by explaining some Birds and Bees to him.

He had some luck in shopping malls in Latin America (as did some guys in the Philippines) by approaching women, going to dinner and shopping, and getting sex in return.

There was a cottage industry here on ISG of guys who did that, with their game being how little, if any, they could give in cash at the end of the little fling.

I explained that this would not work in Barcelona. The Simpleton believed that a shopping mall in a non-English speaking country equaled sex. It does not, especially in a more wealthy country where there is no interest among the women to marry a foreigner and move to his country. It requires more components to the equation. It requires a poor woman with a significant amount of free time who is willing to take a small chance of making a large profit. Kind of the way the Underclass is drawn to The Lottery. It also helps when those women are indoctrinated into organized religion at a young age, especially that Pope fellow, who would tell them that commercial sex is wrong. That lady is better off in her culture of being seen on a date with someone instead of doing an obvious hook-up. Those principles do not exist in Barcelona, and over time are probably less likely to exist today in Latin American Capitals. And fortunately Seeking Arrangement has made the market much more efficient all over the world in terms of placing the ladies who are interested in a compensated arrangement into an electronic marketplace of like-minded buyers and sellers, leaving the girl alone who only wants to sell perfume, not pussy, at the shopping mall. Unfortunately for her, there are fewer physical perfume buyers at the mall, thanks to Amazon. But of course Seeking Arrangement destroys the market for the guy getting a lot of sex through purchasing goods and food for a lady with the vague promise of future cash that is never delivered. Notice that those guys rarely post any more on ISG, and my tendency to post about the use of the electronic market has earned me a Hater who tells everyone to return to The Streets.

I told the guy that I made angry that he was like the typical small child who calls everything with four legs a Dog, until someone explains to him that another name exists for the many four-legged creatures such as Horse, Cow, Elephant, etc. He said I was condescending, but hopefully he took my advice and didn't try the Shopping Mall technique there. Women in Barcelona will sell tail, but not in that manner. Of course the same can be said for the ladies on Seeking Arrangement who say they are not prostitutes and the customers who say they aren't Johns. Yes folks, you are. It is just a different marketplace with different rules and modes of exchange.

Midwestern
10-25-20, 00:51
Against all odds I might have found a SB in the Netherlands.

Cute face but not a killer body. Has foreign roots.

She's on a sexual rediscovery journey. So the money is an extra for her.

Super relax and very down to earth. Has many talents and ambitions but hasn't capitalised on them.

We agreed on a PPM and I hope to built this into a long lasting agreement.Congrats! Let us know how it goes. Also, let us know how it goes if you convert her to a monthly allowance instead of PPM. I have done both PPM and monthly allowance, and I have found that both has its plusses and minuses. Maybe there is no obvious best practice, and it just depends on the girl and situation.

Steve 9696
10-25-20, 13:44
Against all odds I might have found a SB in the Netherlands.

Cute face but not a killer body. Has foreign roots.

She's on a sexual rediscovery journey. So the money is an extra for her.

Super relax and very down to earth. Has many talents and ambitions but hasn't capitalised on them.

We agreed on a PPM and I hope to built this into a long lasting agreement.This does sound good. But where in the journey are you? Just texted? Met up but no sex? Met up and done the deed?

Oneminuteboy
10-25-20, 16:23
Congrats! Let us know how it goes. Also, let us know how it goes if you convert her to a monthly allowance instead of PPM. I have done both PPM and monthly allowance, and I have found that both has its plusses and minuses. Maybe there is no obvious best practice, and it just depends on the girl and situation.Already had the 1st meet. It is why I was surprised to find somebody like her in the Netherlands. Still need to have a few more dates to see what works best for the both of us.


This does sound good. But where in the journey are you? Just texted? Met up but no sex? Met up and done the deed?Already met and done the deed. See seems to be a good match for what I need. Had I met her through other means she would be a decent relationship option.

Pessimist
10-25-20, 18:13
As was mentioned earlier about SA in different cities, you can't generalize too much based on a few personal experiences. Casual sex with civilians around the globe is even more difficult to make generalizations. Let's just say it's complicated..Yes, I agree. I think it is not a wise thing to generalize. That was my point. In your prior post, I think you said "American women placing too much value on their gynecological charms".

This is a large country, almost as big as the entire Western Europe combined. To combined all of them with one sentence is not appropriate. That was the point I was trying to make in a rhetorical way.

I don't think Americans are too easy or too difficult, European women are too easy or too difficult, not sure that women in some countries place too much value or little value on their bodies speaking in a collective manner. From the beginning of my foray into this forum, I have been saying precisely that.

Steve 9696
10-25-20, 19:38
Already had the 1st meet. It is why I was surprised to find somebody like her in the Netherlands. Still need to have a few more dates to see what works best for the both of us.

Already met and done the deed. See seems to be a good match for what I need. Had I met her through other means she would be a decent relationship option.That is awesome. I hope it lasts a while. Just don't forget the first rule of SB it can Be awesome but then be gone without any warning so always keep trolling. There's always a next one.

Midwestern
10-26-20, 00:41
I don't know why, but I just remembered a funny story that happened to me from a couple of months ago. (This is off-topic, BTW.)

I was hard up for a date, and the mongering scene had still not returned to full speed. So, I invited an ex to Shanghai for three days. I told her to book a hotel for three nights and she did. Before her arrival, she told me how clever she was, because she discovered that a room was only $80 per night when she booked them separately, rather than booking a room for three consecutive nights, which came out to $90 per night. So, she said she was saving me $10 per night. I didn't think anything of it. On the first day we meet, I am balls deep in her, when there's a call to the room. The front desk says that she is late for her check-out. Yep, she had to check out at noon, and then recheck back into the hotel. Since I was an unregistered guest, I just took off. She went downstairs to check-out and then check-in. I sent her a text to let me know when I could return to the room. A few minutes later, she says she has to change rooms. I texted back and told her to yell at the front desk people to let her stay in the same room. She did. She was able to keep the room. But when she returned to the room, housekeeping was already in there changing everything. So, she had to wait for them. By the time I am back in the room, it's almost 2 pm. The next day, I just decided to meet her at 2 pm because I didn't want to put up with whatever hassle she had to go through on the next day. This kind of annoyed me, because I wanted to spend all day with her in the room, but oh well. Anyway, sure enough, when I arrived, she told me that she was in a different room. LOL.

I wanted to tell her that she's not clever enough out-think a hotel, but I then decided why bother. At the time, I was pretty furious. But now I just think it was funny.

DiverOyster
10-26-20, 02:49
I recall reading someone's posts in the past about chatting with some Chinese girls who claim they are successful at F / X trading. I was looking for those posts but I couldn't find them.

I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.

Pessimist
10-26-20, 13:18
I recall reading someone's posts in the past about chatting with some Chinese girls who claim they are successful at F / X trading. I was looking for those posts but I couldn't find them.

I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.She wants to teach you! Sounds a bit weird to me. My first thought is that most likely a scammer. On the other hand, "she" has been chatting with you for a month and that is a large investment of "her" time. Internet scammers do not spend that much time on a single target, as they have no idea if you have any real money, or you might just block her at any instant, or what have you.

All in all, I am still inclined to the view that this smells like a fish. You did not join the site to learn FX, you were seeking poontang.

Finally, until you meet the person in flesh, don't assume she is what she said she is. Well, she may turn out to be a scammer even after you meet in person but at least you know then that there is a woman behind the online persona. As of now, you may be just speaking to a bot.

Travel902
10-26-20, 16:09
I recall reading someone's posts in the past about chatting with some Chinese girls who claim they are successful at F / X trading. I was looking for those posts but I couldn't find them.

I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.I experienced the same type of message from a Hong Kong girl in April and we chatted for a few months. She wanted me to invest in currency trading and was willing to teach me. She said that she had an uncle in the banking business and she will get tips from her uncle as to what to buy and when to purchase. We chatted on WhatsApp, she originally had a Hong Kong number but then strangely it changed to a Malaysian number. That throughout warning bells to me. She would also not allow any FaceTime.

I finally told her that I was not interested in investing and making money, I had enough money and now it was time to spend. She abruptly ended our conversations! I contacted her just the other day after six weeks of silence, the bottom line was she wanted me to invest.

I had another experience with a Hong Kong girl who contacted me. Basically it was the same M O, only she was in the gold trading. When I told her I was not interested in investing she also abruptly ended the conversation.

Both women were friendly and started with a very soft sell job, stating how rich they were and wanted to travel with me through China.

DiverOyster.

I recall reading someone's posts in the past about chatting with some Chinese girls who claim they are successful at F / X trading. I was looking for those posts but I couldn't find them.

I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.

Dr Brian Jones
10-27-20, 19:21
I received a Hello message from a Hong Kong girl about a month ago. We have been chatting on Whatsapp almost daily since then but when I wanted to videochat she refused. She seems to be financially independent and according to her, she is just looking for a genuine relationship. She never mentioned any allowance. Different from other foreign girls, she never asked me for $ for an "online relationship" arrangement.

Now she wants to teach me how to do F / X trading. I'm not sure what she is after but I may just go along to see what will happen.She will take some time to gain your trust.

She will declare that she is financially independent, and quite successful actually!

She will probably never video-call you.

But:

-At one point, she (or he) will try to have you invest in f / x, diamonds or any investments with great, great return.

-This is 100% SCAM, just a new variation, out for about 2 or 3 years.

DramaFree11
10-28-20, 04:07
Here is my Tuesday in MTY, all but one of the girls I met is from SA. I set up a Threesome. One of the girls is from SA and the other is from one of the agency's I us in MTY. I take both girls separately through the parking garage entrance so security does not say anything. Works perfectly. One hour of fun, this was at 10 am. I meet my model girlfriend at 1:15, we have coffee and then have a great session. She was also over Wednesday night and had anal / toy show. At 4 pm I check out of my Condo and check into a hotel. I do not want to push my luck at the condo I stay at, I try to be somewhat respectable. I meet with a super hot lawyer, again a great session. SA is working so well in MTY. Love it.

Midwestern
10-28-20, 07:03
Here is my Tuesday in MTY, all but one of the girls I met is from SA. I set up a Threesome. One of the girls is from SA and the other is from one of the agency's I us in MTY. I take both girls separately through the parking garage entrance so security does not say anything. Works perfectly. One hour of fun, this was at 10 am. I meet my model girlfriend at 1:15, we have coffee and then have a great session. She was also over Wednesday night and had anal / toy show. At 4 pm I check out of my Condo and check into a hotel. I do not want to push my luck at the condo I stay at, I try to be somewhat respectable. I meet with a super hot lawyer, again a great session. SA is working so well in MTY. Love it.You had 4 girls in one day?! That's awesome. I was trying to schedule 4 for just this entire week, but I could not pull it off. One gal got sick. Another is a flake who only shows up about 15% of the time to begin with. And another is a dumdum that messed up our plans. Luckily, I met my main arrangement on Monday, and we spent about four hours under the sheets, one hour at lunch, and one hour just goofing around outside. This gal is not a big fan of screwing for hours, but her monthly allowance was given to her on Monday, and that greased the wheels, if you know what I mean.

DramaFree11
10-28-20, 19:16
You had 4 girls in one day?! That's awesome. I was trying to schedule 4 for just this entire week, but I could not pull it off. One gal got sick. Another is a flake who only shows up about 15% of the time to begin with. And another is a dumdum that messed up our plans. Luckily, I met my main arrangement on Monday, and we spent about four hours under the sheets, one hour at lunch, and one hour just goofing around outside. This gal is not a big fan of screwing for hours, but her monthly allowance was given to her on Monday, and that greased the wheels, if you know what I mean.Yes, it was a good day. I also got some work done. I thought you might be more impressed getting the girls past security.

MiamiBoy1
11-02-20, 03:52
Has anyone had a success with SA girls in Buenos Aires? What is the typical rate for an overnight (or 6-8 hrs) date? It looks like argentine peso is at all time lows vs USD right now, so you can get a great bang for your buck once the country opens up. Planning a trip soon. I'm new to SA, only used it once in CDMX last summer, it wasn't easy in the beginning, but once I learned how it works I had plenty of great dates.

I could not find any relevant info in BA thread, there is pretty much zero activity there (due to COVID?

Steve 9696
11-02-20, 18:59
So as I said I like to keep in touch with girls afterward and hope to rekindle when opportunity strikes. Well opportunity struck hard when I pinged Alexa who I met on SA a year ago and enjoyed in person twice in December. I said "want to meet me in xxxx" (a four hour flight for her) and she said sure! With in two hours I sent her money for a ticket and she had booked it.

After I arrived at the destination her flight was later that night. I know her well enough to know she would never scam me, but she could get cold feet of course. Nope. She arrived looking hot in some tight black jeans. We had great late night sex while killing a bottle of wine. Then just an amazing weekend together. Brunch, sushi, tons of wine, pedicab rides, romantic dinners out, moonlight strolls and AMAZING sex including a top three BBBJ and two hours of nonstop sex on the balcony. LOL.

She's a legit petite 9 with an amazing ass, perky 34 BS, and the most beautiful pussy on planet earth. I really can't believe I got to enjoy her for a full long weekend. These are the times where:

1. Seeking rules.

2. Keeping in touch rewards you.

3. There are REAL non pro girls out there who you can develop a lovely relationship with. Knowing it's NSA and $$ to bridge the age gap but feels totally real.

Couldn't be happier right now.

Steve 9696
11-03-20, 12:48
So finally was able to do the SA week in Lisbon and it was a pretty successful one after all the very helpful pointers from the experienced guys in this thread. FR posted in the Lisbon thread if anyone is interested.Please post here also. We'the love to have all SA content in one place plus we all need a good FR these days. I'll post a more detailed Alexa FR soon.

Pessimist
11-04-20, 23:11
Fantastic report, JackOfNone!

Well done!

Midwestern
11-05-20, 12:35
Fantastic report, JackOfNone!

Well done!At JackOfNone, excellent report, and I agree "well done!" Also, a bonus was that I got to learn a little bit about the Lisbon scene, so that was cool. Thanks.

BrizLad
11-05-20, 21:40
A few posters have talked about the rekindle and keeping in touch with past SBs. It seems that once the girl has accepted us once for se, that kind of still counts when the girl has moved into a new relationship also.

I'm 55+ and about a year ago I had a wonderful with a genuine non-pro SB, 32 ish, professional job, in a happy sex-less domestic situation.

So a day in bed with me was a great treat for her. We got on really well. We did exchange a few messages through the year since then, birthday, Christmas wishes. In October I suggested we should meet again to which she initially agreed, then the following day she said "the temptation's too great, I'm better not to risk anything anymore and for our better good I'm going to block you." And that was that. What a waste of an amazing clean pussy and lovely enhanced breast.

Meanwhile, just have to move on to the other 100 options in my area.

Steve 9696
11-06-20, 04:09
I flew in Friday afternoon and then Alexa flew in late Friday. I was a little worried she got cold feet but she came bopping off the plane in her tight black jeans and looked awesome. Alexa actually needs no makeup. But she has a bit of eyeshadow and lipstick and she looks great.

We head back to the hotel which is luxe and has an epic ocean view and a large glass balcony. Frankly this should be part of SB also I want her to feel special throughout our weekend together.

I was a bit worried that she might claim "too tired" it's 11 PM now but nope we break out a bottle of nice Rose I had chilling in the fridge and we fall right into it. Just magical to kiss her again and we are very comfortable in bed together.

We kill the entire bottle and I can't remember all the details. I remember her BJ is really good. And we get into some AMAZING 69. Her pussy is absolutely incredible and tasty. And the whole 69 thing just totally works for me. I can see her picture perfect ass in my peripheral vision and it makes me hard as a brick.

When we decide to suit up, Most girls like to start cowgirl. She says nope let's go to mish our joint favorite. We go at it this way a long time I love kissing her while pounding away. Nothing beats mish kissing. We do some RCG and doggie but eventually return to BJ where I bless her with a hot load which she takes CIM and trots off to spit.

We then snuggle and fall asleep. Guys, this is SA at its finest. Your best girl in the crook of your arm falling asleep on your shoulder. This just blows hourly escorting away in my book.

Saturday morning we wake up late and go to brunch. Beachside dining with more sushi than we can eat (again treat her like a princess). It's so fun to be a couple.

I have some commitments that day so I return about 5 PM and am headed for the most epic date of my life. When I return she was napping. I nap cuddled a bit then tried to get her interested in sex but she was just kinda deflecting. (Remember she's not a hooker!

Earlier she told me she brought her vibrator. So in a sudden flash of brilliance I say "when we going to break out that vibrator" and she says in a few minutes! So more wine is poured and we break that monster out.

It's one of those big ones and she just uses it on her clit. I think I forgot to mention she has the most beautiful pussy on earth. Like a literal ten. We were talking about it and she thinks one of the lips is a little too big. Haha. It's not. OMG it is gorgeous and feels so good inside too. Fingering her is epic. The most beautiful pussy feel inside ever.

We started with me fingering her while she worked herself. She was really good about edging. Because she said if she came it would be all over and so she would keep backing it off when she reached the edge. So we could both have fun.

I maneuvered around to get my dick in her mouth and she really liked that. So FIV and vibrator and BJ. It was great for both of us. She was giving a really good BJ. You could tell having the dick in her mouth was heightening the experience. She actually said "don't cum too soon" because she wanted that hard dick. Really awesome.

We had noticed yesterday that the balcony across from ours about 15 feet outside our window a lady had come out earlier that day. So we had been doing all this with the curtains wide open just for fun! So we switched it up to doggie so she could vibrate her clit while I fuck her from behind. I said here let's face the window to give them a show and she was game!

Eventually we switch back to her vibing herself (on her back - she needs to focus actually) so she can get off. Previously I'the kneeled at the side of her head and she took me in her mouth turning her head sideways. This time I straddled her and was able to slowly mouth fuck her while she built her O. I could tell she was getting close because her moans (dick in mouth) were increasing and her BJ was getting a little toothy as she was lost to the world. I didn't mind. I just let her build and wow. She had a shattering one. She had to pull my dick out of her mouth to cry out. It was epic.

A little rest and I started getting a bit softer so she had to work me back up. Her BJ is quite good and will get better later that night. Takes a nice load of CIM and trots off to spit. But this is far from the end of the night.

Guess it's about 7 now. And we make dinner reservatONS for 8 pm. About a five min walk. We have a lovely dinner with Japanese / Korean fusion tapas and Pinot Grigio. She is wearing an LBD and heels and a sparkle mask she looks hot as fuck.

She's always self deprecating but not in a false way. She is not confident about her looks, which is hilarious because she is drop dead gorgeous. OMG. I literally can only find one thing to change and that would be take 1 lb off her waist. That's it. Perfect ass. Second best worldwide in my entire girl-history. That is lofty. Perfect pussy. A ten no lie. Lovely 34 B tits. Face to die for. Long naturally curly ringlets. Fuck I am a lucky man.

At dinner we have a really nice time. This is not a transaction. There is true affection exchanged both ways. This is the real deal.

Our first night I had struck up a conversation with a Russian pedicab driver and he gave me his card. So I rang him up from dinner and he met us at the bottom of the stairs from the restaurant. We hop in and ask him to take us to a liquor store but take his time. So we moonlight ride (full moon on the water) along the beach about a mile to the store. We pick up a bottle of Pinot Grigio and some small filtered cigars.

He's got the Led Zeppelin cranked up. As he drives us back towards the hotel we are swigging from the bottle and smoking our cigs. You may recall I did this in London with Thifany and then the Columbianas. It is so fucking fun!

So we have him drop us at the beach across from the hotel. There is a lifeguard stand there so we take off our shoes and put them on there and go walking down the beach. Still swigging and smoking. Back to the lifeguard stand we climb up and sit side by side killing the bottle in the moonlight. Every few minutes I take her chin and pull her towards me and kissing for a minute or so. Very sexy and romantic. She likes to suck on my lips and tongue which is unique but I rather like it.

Eventually we kill the bottle and decide to head back to the room for what will turn into a very comfortable sexual marathon (2 hrs of nonstop sex). We open a bottle of Moscato from the fridge and pour a couple glasses. We are both totally buzzing so when I suggest we go out and fuck on the balcony she is totally down.

We start out slow in our undies. Her on my lap drinking and smoking on the patio chair. At some point we are standing up and I say "I'm getting rid of these" indicating my undies. And says me too! So we are now totally naked on the glass balcony. Me and my girl.

I sit down and she starts giving me an absolutely fabulous blowjob. I could go forever I'm so drunk. About 5 minutes in she asks what makes a good blowjob and I tell her variety and show her how to turn her head sideways and slide her lips up and down the underside. That mixed with BLS and full on sucking in and out and it's heavenly.

At some point this turns into a fun conversation while getting blown. She is asking me about when I lost my virginity or my craziest sexual experience. It really makes it go on forever as we chat amiably while she blows the fuck out of me.

After maybe a half hour of this (no joke) we swap it around and I work on her. She slouches way down in the chair so her pussy is near the edge and pulls her legs up spread wide and I dive in. In addition to the DATY the fingering is epic. Her pussy feels as beautiful as it looks.

Somehow we end up back in the room for the finish. It's all a bit foggy. I remember fucking her good in the modified mish where she has a pillow under her but and you have one of her legs up in the air between yours. We did legs on shoulders. And who knows what else. Went to regular mish to kiss passionately and pound out a shattering second cumming after maybe ten minutes of kiss fucking mish. Wow.

I remember absolutely zero after that. Must have crashed like a big dog. One of the best or maybe the best date of my life.

Rinse and repeat Sunday well we didn't go two rounds. We were both bushed and napped till about 7 PM (again I was tied up during the day). We decided for a simple dinner at the hotel but again the wine and sushi plus steak was epic. We really get along well.

Back in the room it's Moscato again and more epic sex. We have become so comfortable making each other happy. The 69 is epic again I can still almost taste how beautiful it tastes when I push my tongue inside. She again asks for BJ pointers and I really get explicit on exactly what to do and how to mix it up. She takes to it like a fish to water. And wow. Literally one of the top BJs I've ever had. I remember an epic 10 minutes on the edge with Noleta in London. This is very very close to that. I am so close for so long and wow the final explosion is life changing. Of course we cuddle it out and sleep like logs.

OMG could I have had more fun (there was plenty more non-sex fun)? Nope. It was amazing. Moral of the story? SA rules. Having a real girlfriend in all ways for the weekend just can't be replicated. It's the best!

I highly recommend repeating like this and flying a girl. I've only done it twice (Thifany and Alex) but both times sooo worth it.

Akibono
11-06-20, 04:38
I flew in Friday afternoon and then Alexa flew in late Friday. I was a little worried she got cold feet but she came bopping off the plane in her tight black jeans and looked awesome. Alexa actually needs no makeup. But she has a bit of eyeshadow and lipstick and she looks great.


OMG could I have had more fun (there was plenty more non-sex fun)? Nope. It was amazing. Moral of the story? SA rules. Having a real girlfriend in all ways for the weekend just can't be replicated. It's the best!

I highly recommend repeating like this and flying a girl. I've only done it twice (Thifany and Alex) but both times sooo worth it.Di you give her anything besides paying for her ticket and all the expenses?

Midwestern
11-06-20, 07:14
Steve: Excellent FR! But have I have a question if you don't mind.

Let's say that you normally give $225 for a PPM that lasts a few hours. If it's an overnight, then maybe you add a little extra, like maybe bump the amount up to $300. But if you ask them to fly somewhere to meet you, then what do you give them besides reimbursing their travel cost? For example, I assume Alexa was a PPM. But when you asked her to fly somewhere to meet you, what kind of math did you do to calculate her gift? For me, I add 50% to the overnight rate, to compensate for her travel time and for her daytimes. So, if I ask someone to fly to meet me, and it's for 3 days and 2 nights, then I count this as 2. 5 overnights (the average of 3 days and 2 nights) and so if I usually give $300 for overnight, then I will pay her $300 x 1. 5 x 2. 5, which equals $1,125.

BTW, if I am wrong that Alexa was a PPM or that you had to give her a gift to meet you, then I apologize for making these presumptions.

Steve 9696
11-06-20, 13:18
Steve: Excellent FR! But have I have a question if you don't mind.

Let's say that you normally give $225 for a PPM that lasts a few hours. If it's an overnight, then maybe you add a little extra, like maybe bump the amount up to $300. But if you ask them to fly somewhere to meet you, then what do you give them besides reimbursing their travel cost? For example, I assume Alexa was a PPM. But when you asked her to fly somewhere to meet you, what kind of math did you do to calculate her gift? For me, I add 50% to the overnight rate, to compensate for her travel time and for her daytimes. So, if I ask someone to fly to meet me, and it's for 3 days and 2 nights, then I count this as 2. 5 overnights (the average of 3 days and 2 nights) and so if I usually give $300 for overnight, then I will pay her $300 x 1. 5 x 2. 5, which equals $1,125.

BTW, if I am wrong that Alexa was a PPM or that you had to give her a gift to meet you, then I apologize for making these presumptions.So again, I haven't done this a lot but generally agree with your math with one exception. During my regular travels I don't generally pay more for overnight because I don't ever negotiate that ahead of time. If she decides to stay it's her choice. I might slip in a bit extra but that's just a spur of the moment call.

One of the main considerations is the surrounding market. Because if I have great alternatives then it's hard to push the PPM much beyond that, since I have the airfare also. I think she clearly wanted to be there. Because we agreed a straight up 2 xPPM for 2 days and three nights. (I gave her $200 extra in the end cuz we had such a magical time). You got to remember if you are doing a "destination" fly that is super exciting to a lot of these girls who would never be able to do that on their own. She was THRILLED to swim in the ocean for the first time. And Thifany was like a school girl in London for the first time. It's win win.

Midwestern
11-07-20, 03:30
Thanks Steve and Jack for your insights. Both of you guys have great points.

I have struggled with the math for many years now. I have flown girls into Shanghai from their hometowns, I have taken SBs or GFs or pros with me on business trips to Beijing, I have flown SA gals from their USA hometown to my USA city (sometimes it was SF, but sometimes it was to other places where I was temporarily stationed), and I have taken SA gals with me on business trips or fun trips within the states. Every single time, I struggled with the amount to give them. I would be curious if others have opinions on the appropriate amount. The reason why I struggle so much is because I am already paying for their travel, so the cost is already high to begin with, but at the same time, I want them to be enthusiastic about the trip too. Of course, I could just straight up ask what they want, but with SBs, we try to make it seem like it's less transactional, and besides, I have asked them in the past and they have always said "give me whatever you want. " Again, I pay their travel expenses and other shared expenses, and for their "gift" I pay their usual PPM rate times 1. 5 (to compensate for their travel time and daytimes) times the average of trip's days and nights (so, if it's a 3 day trip with 2 overnight stays, then this is 2. 5). TIA.

Steve 9696
11-07-20, 03:43
Thanks Steve and Jack for your insights. Both of you guys have great points.

I have struggled with the math for many years now. I have flown girls into Shanghai from their hometowns, I have taken SBs or GFs or pros with me on business trips to Beijing, I have flown SA gals from their USA hometown to my USA city (sometimes it was SF, but sometimes it was to other places where I was temporarily stationed), and I have taken SA gals with me on business trips or fun trips within the states. Every single time, I struggled with the amount to give them. I would be curious if others have opinions on the appropriate amount. The reason why I struggle so much is because I am already paying for their travel, so the cost is already high to begin with, but at the same time, I want them to be enthusiastic about the trip too. Of course, I could just straight up ask what they want, but with SBs, we try to make it seem like it's less transactional, and besides, I have asked them in the past and they have always said "give me whatever you want. " Again, I pay their travel expenses and other shared expenses, and for their "gift" I pay their usual PPM rate times 1. 5 (to compensate for their travel time and daytimes) times the average of trip's days and nights (so, if it's a 3 day trip with 2 overnight stays, then this is 2. 5). TIA.Sounds like you might be paying more than needed since it sounds like they want to be there regardless and they do in their minds think "oh he has to cover airfare and hotel I can't charge too much. But really don't sweat it. With SA girls I often think of that extra hundred and who will it benefit more and the answer is always easy. "Overpaying" really isn't a thing if you care about her.

Midwestern
11-07-20, 05:15
"Overpaying" really isn't a thing if you care about her.Man, this really hits home with me!! Yes, you're right!! Almost all of these gals are poor, and some are dirt poor, and yet most of them have been absolute sweethearts to me. So, I shouldn't care if I feel like I'm overpaying a little. Thanks, man.

DramaFree11
11-07-20, 05:26
Man, this really hits home with me!! Yes, you're right!! Almost all of these gals are poor, and some are dirt poor, and yet most of them have been absolute sweethearts to me. So, I shouldn't care if I feel like I'm overpaying a little. Thanks, man.I feel the same, I over pay a little in MTY, but what I can back in return, blows my mind, so good. You read some of the other forums and what some of these guys, put up with, I will gladly over pay a little. I am living like a Rock Star, sure there is some be. S. , but very little compared to my days in Kiev or MDE.

Pessimist
11-08-20, 22:45
Issue with conversion between per meet and per month allowance is the frequency of payments. Say, you are used to giving allowance of $300/ meet. If you agree to $1200 a month with the implicit understanding that you will meet once a week, do you give the $1,200 at the start of the month, in the middle, or at the end? If you give it at the first meet, what will you do if she takes it and vanishes? On the other hand, if it is at the end or even in the middle she is giving a free one (s) and you might not come back.

If you have been seeing each other for a while, then it is easier to trust each other and convert per meet to per month because you have some trust built up.

The formula itself is generally per meet * expected number of meets = per month (with some discount likely because you are guaranteeing that many meets a month).

But the key hurdle is always the trust issue. I recommend not to blindly enter into a monthly arrangement and hand over the entire monthly sum at the first meet. That would be foolhardy.

If you are talking about a vacation together, then it is different. If you bought the plane fare for her, she would not run away because you could cancel her ticket. On the other hand, girls would be reluctant to travel with you unless they know you and trust you because they know they are in your power -- typically they don't have too much money and if you get upset with them and kick them out, they would be stranded homeless in a foreign country with no money to get back home. That may or may not happen but any girl would be foolish to not consider such a downside scenario. There are quite a few assholes out there and they will take advantage of a girl in such a situation. If I was advising a girl as a friend, I would tell her to be very careful to ever accompany any guy on a foreign trip unless she knew him very well and has a tremendous amount of trust. From a girl's pov, in my view it is simply not worth it to place herself in the power of an unknown guy.

Midwestern
11-10-20, 10:01
Issue with conversion between per meet and per month allowance is the frequency of payments. Say, you are used to giving allowance of $300/ meet. If you agree to $1200 a month with the implicit understanding that you will meet once a week, do you give the $1,200 at the start of the month, in the middle, or at the end? If you give it at the first meet, what will you do if she takes it and vanishes? On the other hand, if it is at the end or even in the middle she is giving a free one (s) and you might not come back.

I recently converted a monthly allowance to PPM. She was someone that I had an affair with last year, and she never expected or asked for a penny. She is 45 years old, married, but has a pretty good body, and she loves to DFK and we are quite compatible in the sack. I didn't see her for about 8 months due to the lockdown, and her deciding to stay in her hometown. However, she and her husband and their adult daughter recently moved to a city neighboring Shanghai. This meant that we could rekindle our affair. However, when I met her again for the first time, a couple of months ago, she was desperate for money, because she and her husband did not work during the lockdown, and she needed to pay three months rent, so I gave her a lump sum to cover the entire three months rent, and I told her that I would give her another lump sum in three months. But I told her that I wanted to see her once per week and she agreed, mostly because I think she genuinely likes me too. Since then, we've only met three times. She kept coming up with excuses to not meet. I did not mind too much. I like her and I was happy to help her. And then, a few days ago, she asked me if I could give her another lump sum to pay off a debt, and she said that I didn't have to pay her rent next time. I thought about it for a couple of days, and then I told her that I don't have large sums of cash laying around, but that I could give her some money each time we meet. As soon as I said this, she said, "can we meet tomorrow?" So, PPM definitely works well sometimes, despite the fact that it feels transactional.

That said, my other SB is still a monthly allowance. So far, it's going well. I see her once or twice per week. And around twice per month, she spends all day with me. She actually said something to me that really struck me. She said, "I need two things from you: love and money. The only way I can get those things is to make you happy. " At first, I wasn't sure how to take this. But then I decided that this makes her a good SB. She also texts me everyday. She's hilarious. But yeah, she too has canceled dates too. That happens with monthly allowances.

One of the best parts of both SBs is that we bareback. So, this is another reason why I cut them some slack in terms of our arrangements.

Pessimist
11-10-20, 16:16
I recently converted a monthly allowance to PPM. She was someone that I had an affair with last year, and she never expected or asked for a penny. She is 45 years old, married, but has a pretty good body, and she loves to DFK and we are quite compatible in the sack. I didn't see her for about 8 months due to the lockdown, and her deciding to stay in her hometown. However, she and her husband and their adult daughter recently moved to a city neighboring Shanghai. This meant that we could rekindle our affair. However, when I met her again for the first time, a couple of months ago, she was desperate for money, because she and her husband did not work during the lockdown, and she needed to pay three months rent, so I gave her a lump sum to cover the entire three months rent, and I told her that I would give her another lump sum in three months. But I told her that I wanted to see her once per week and she agreed, mostly because I think she genuinely likes me too. Since then, we've only met three times. She kept coming up with excuses to not meet. I did not mind too much. I like her and I was happy to help her. And then, a few days ago, she asked me if I could give her another lump sum to pay off a debt, and she said that I didn't have to pay her rent next time. I thought about it for a couple of days, and then I told her that I don't have large sums of cash laying around, but that I could give her some money each time we meet. As soon as I said this, she said, "can we meet tomorrow?" So, PPM definitely works well sometimes, despite the fact that it feels transactional..Thanks for sharing MW. How did the monthly allowance arrangement begin? Did you start it off with monthly or was it a ppm that converted to a monthly? I can see building trust with a bunch of ppms, like each other and have trust, then convert to monthly.

I prefer ppms because monthlys imply a long term obligation. If you have a sugarbabe on a monthly for a couple of months and then drop her, it has the feeling of a breakup with a GF. Also, if you agree to see other once or twice a week in the monthly arrangement but have to travel, have some other issues that make you busy then you are still on the hook for the money part but you end up paying with not much in return.

That said, if you find a gem and you like each other, monthly can be very nice. I had some super cutie young sugar babes who I did see several times and if I had an opportunity to have any of them on a monthly for a year or two, I would have jumped at it because they were absolutely awesome. But girls like that were never in a rush for monthly; they tended to be strictly NSA.

Rextor
11-12-20, 14:20
So if anyone wants to read my post history, you'll know that I went on an awesome SA date pre-pandemic. Long story short, over the course of the pandemic this girl and I grew close to the point that she is now basically my novia. I think we were both in a position that we were lonely and wanted company, she didn't really need money at the time, and I wanted it to feel real, so I basically brought up the idea of vanilla, unpaid dates, and she was absolutely fine with it. Fast forward many months and many Zoom-based movie nights, and I finally got to see her a few weeks ago. I'll confess I am weak against the pleasures of the flesh, and I had seen other girls that I found on SA in Medellin. But to show you guys how chill my novia is, we went to La Isla strip club. Not only was she ok with me looking or touching, she actively brought over girls for me to play with. And at the end of the night, she said that she didn't consider it cheating if I had sex with other girls. So definitely picked the right one haha.

Anyways, I've been using Seeking in Mexico City and Colombia over the past couple of months while traveling. I've got to say, it takes a lot of time and patience for flakes, but the reward may be worth it depending on who you are. On multiple occasions I've had girls confirm with the day of and never show up. One girl even had the balls to say she was in the Uber on the way over and she ghosted me. And in general these girls will go days without answering their messages. But the upside is potentially so sweet. You might find a novia (feel like I've already struck gold) or at least find some very cute university girls / non-pros that you can chill with.

With these non-pros, there's no clock watching, complete GFE, and its a girl that I can just hang out with for hours and have a real conversation with. In contrast, I've never met an actual puta that I didn't want out of my room 10 minutes after finishing (then again, not very experienced, so who knows). I guess the only strategy is to have a stable of professionals at hand in case someone does flake. I'll confess my Medellin FB game was not on point, so I spent many nights just alone. Which is ok since I was and will be there for an extended period of time but not great for a someone trying to maximize their time.

WyattEarp
11-13-20, 01:04
Just because work is slow right now, thought I am going to share some of my SA experiences in my home country.

So I live in a northern European country where the girls are not considered the most beautiful, but still some lookers of course. I have had encounters with I think 7 or 8 girls over the last few months, have had sex with some, not with some, but overall has been a very interesting experience. SA girls are quite flaky and its a bit difficult to match schedules, arrange hotels and stuff when you are mongering in your own city. Thats why I have missed on meeting quite a few interesting ones, but the haul has not been bad by any measure. Here goes:

Girl 1: She is the first one I met and also the most fun one I met in my home country. We had a very nice drink on a terrace overlooking a lake as our first date and she looked quite lovely. With makeup, she looked like late 20's. She had a good figure, a little bit thicker than I usually prefer, but a solid 7.5-8 overall. We had a very nice chat for a couple of hours, the waiter who was serving us was an awesome guy, he realised that we were on a date and helped me a bit in making her laugh etc, asked both of us mischievously how the date is going, so that really helped break the ice, so the date overall went very well. I was very green at that time and honestly did not know how to bring up the money topic. But finally, while walking back towards our cars, I did bring up the money topic and agreed to meet that weekend for 250 ppm at her apartment. I think at that point she genuinely liked me and was looking forward to meet me. A nice wet kiss in the parking lot and went home happy that day..Thanks for posting. We can all learn from your experience.

First, you live in a Northern European country where the girls aren't considered the most beautiful. Hmmm. I was running through the Northern European countries. I started to think there must be a country north of Scandinavia that I do not know. LOL.

As you said, I think you made a big rookie sugar daddy mistake. As has been mentioned by Steve9696, keep the money as far apart from the sex as possible. I wouldn't blame the friend. Girls talk whether in the bathroom or as soon as you and your sugar baby are off the phone. Just by the way you described it, the sex sounded very transactional as soon as you began discussing specific amounts for specific sex acts. Perhaps it was more subtle. I'm guessing things were going well and alcohol colored your judgement a bit.

Good luck on getting back on track with this girl. I'm sure some time will help.

And yes, please post more experiences. I think the experiences help us inexperienced members understand how the sexual relationship can escalate or fail.

Mongerer88
11-13-20, 02:25
Thanks for posting. We can all learn from your experience.

First, you live in a Northern European country where the girls aren't considered the most beautiful. Hmmm. I was running through the Northern European countries. I started to think there must be a country north of Scandinavia that I do not know. LOL.

As you said, I think you made a big rookie sugar daddy mistake. As has been mentioned by Steve9696, keep the money as far apart from the sex as possible. I wouldn't blame the friend. Girls talk whether in the bathroom or as soon as you and your sugar baby are off the phone. Just by the way you described it, the sex sounded very transactional as soon as you began discussing specific amounts for specific sex acts. Perhaps it was more subtle. I'm guessing things were going well and alcohol colored your judgement a bit.

Good luck on getting back on track with this girl. I'm sure some time will help.

And yes, please post more experiences. I think the experiences help us inexperienced members understand how the sexual relationship can escalate or fail.We may be a bit biased because Montreal's Nordic Goddess is considered by most to be a true stunner.

https://twitter.com/MissSashaJo

Jackofnone, do all Nordic women not look like her?

Pessimist
11-13-20, 03:58
Just because work is slow right now, thought I am going to share some of my SA experiences in my home country.

So I live in a northern European country where the girls are not considered the most beautiful, but still some lookers of course. I have had encounters with I think 7 or 8 girls over the last few months, have had sex with some, not with some, but overall has been a very interesting experience. SA girls are quite flaky and its a bit difficult to match schedules, arrange hotels and stuff when you are mongering in your own city. Thats why I have missed on meeting quite a few interesting ones, but the haul has not been bad by any measure. Here goes:

Girl 1: She is the first one I met and also the most fun one I met in my home country. We had a very nice drink on a terrace overlooking a lake as our first date and she looked quite lovely. With makeup, she looked like late 20's. She had a good figure, a little bit thicker than I usually prefer, but a solid 7.5-8 overall. We had a very nice chat for a couple of hours, the waiter who was serving us was an awesome guy, he realised that we were on a date and helped me a bit in making her laugh etc, asked both of us mischievously how the date is going, so that really helped break the ice, so the date overall went very well. I was very green at that time and honestly did not know how to bring up the money topic. But finally, while walking back towards our cars, I did bring up the money topic and agreed to meet that weekend for 250 ppm at her apartment. I think at that point she genuinely liked me and was looking forward to meet me. A nice wet kiss in the parking lot and went home happy that day.

The day after, I was just casually chatting with her at night and she told me that she was at the casino with some friends. I joked if I could come over since I am a roulette fan, and she said sure. After thinking about it for a while, decided to go over and meet up with her and hopefully have fun at the casino. She was there with another couple (the girl was def another sugar baby friend of hers, I got to know later). This is important later. She did not look as nice as she did on the previous date, and was a little bit drunk, so I wasn't that happy this time, but went along with the flow. Played a bit of roulette, lost again like always, had a couple of drinks, and overall had quite a fun time. When I decided to go to the casino, I didn't have any intentions of taking the date to her apartment, but somehow we ended up talking about that. I did not have too much time that day and had to get home back soon, so I asked if we can go to her apartment for a preview of our weekend's date and not the full monty. She was on board for that after a bit of coaxing but she thought I thought I mean the same arrangement (250) also to meet tonight. I told her that I cannot stay for a ling time and thus we will not be able to enjoy each other fully, so how about a reduced arrangement of maybe 100-150, for like a blowjob or something like that. To be honest, I made the rookie sugar daddy mistake of thinking in terms of how much I would pay a hooker for a specific time frame. If this was now, I would have treated it differently.I feel that honestly you made a mistake. I would also give up on that girl and move on.

She is right in her mind thinking that you reneged on the terms. Negotiating for 250 and then saying you will give 150 because you have less time and can only do a blow job absolutely does treat her a prostitute and not only that cheapens it a bit. I am sorry to be harsh but that is the blunt truth.

To her, assuming she is a not pro, the very act of having any sexual contact is a big step. And whether it was a BJ or fucking, it is still sex. You are almost saying "I will give x euros for BJ, x1 euros for licking, x2 euros for fucking, etc". Frankly, that sort of a la carte pricing is how FKKs have changed of late and most mongers hate it. Why would a non-pro sugarbabe like it?

And you trying to repair it now will not work in my estimation. The girl has formed an impression in her mind. Is it worth changing it? She is not your GF. Just forget her and move on to greener pastures. Unless your city is a terrible hunting ground for sugar daddies, you are better off putting this behind you and finding someone else where the relationship is not spoiled due to prior impressions.

Anyway, that is what I would do if I were in your shoes today. Good luck.

Bdb013
11-13-20, 19:20
I just returned from a trip to Puebla Mexico. It was Day of the dead weekend there. I have to say that the city was pretty much subdued because of covid. Everyone wore masks inside and out. We were able to see some sights and eat at some nice restaurants.

There were three of us on the trip. I used SA exclusively for finding dates for all of us. I started out about 3 weeks prior to my trip. I found a pretty 21 yr old college student. She stayed with me for 4 days. My other two friends had multiple dates from SA. One of my friends was even able to talk two chicas to come see him. The two girls had never met before. He said it was the best night of his life. All the girls ranged from 19-23. All very beautiful. We could have struck up with several more from SA. But didn't. We stayed at a small boutique hotel on the center square in the historic part of town. It was very girl friendly and had a nice restaurant & bar.

I almost always use SA exclusively now. It is a little expensive, but with great big rewards.

Midwestern
11-14-20, 01:54
When I decided to go to the casino, I didn't have any intentions of taking the date to her apartment, but somehow we ended up talking about that. I did not have too much time that day and had to get home back soon, so I asked if we can go to her apartment for a preview of our weekend's date and not the full monty. She was on board for that after a bit of coaxing but she thought I thought I mean the same arrangement (250) also to meet tonight. I told her that I cannot stay for a ling time and thus we will not be able to enjoy each other fully, so how about a reduced arrangement of maybe 100-150, for like a blowjob or something like that. To be honest, I made the rookie sugar daddy mistake of thinking in terms of how much I would pay a hooker for a specific time frame. If this was now, I would have treated it differently.

Anyways, she was kind of ok with that and agreed to leave after she goes to the bathroom. We return to our table, she goes to the bathroom with her friend, and suddenly her mood had changed, and she told me that she did not like how I offered her money, and I should have made my proposal in a different way. I was a bit pissed honestly, and tried to come to an arrangement but the mood was already spoiled. I think the ***** friend said something about it when they went to the bathroom together, but don't know for sure. I finished my drink and left for the night (with a disappointed johnny). We kind of said our goodbyes the next day on text, but I was careful not to burn bridges.

I did message her after a few days, but she was a little bit dry, although still willing to meet. I haven't had the chance to meet her yet, but maybe someday, who knows.Thanks for sharing your story. Yeah, when we meet a non pro on SA, we have to tread carefully and not treat them like a pro and not treat them like something that we are buying. As Pessimist, WyattEarp, and Steve9696 have said recently and in the past, we have to separate the money and sex for non pro SA gals, otherwise they will feel bad about themselves. But this is easier said than done. In the beginning, when we meet an non pro SB for the first time, how do we separate the money from the sex? This is very hard to do. Many years ago, when I was pretty new to SA, I had a great first date, and she suddenly said, "lets go back to my place and snuggle. " I was stunned and thrilled. So I said, "okay, and I will give you $500. " She shot back, "I am not a prostitute!" I quickly apologized and told her that I was so crazy about her, that I lost my mind. That calmed her down. So, yeah, we have to separate money from sex, but how? I guess the best thing to do is to NOT bring up money unless she brings it up. This has worked for me on occassion. What I will do is listen carefully on the first date, and if we end up in the sack, then the next day, I will say, "last night, you told me your dog needed to see the vet today, I love dogs, so let me pay for that, here's $200. " Or, I will look for opportunities to pay for something else. Another example is that on the next day after a successful first date, I said, "I see your car door handle is broken. You should fix that. Let me give you $300. ".

Finally, I think sometimes we just have to roll the dice and take a plunge. One of my current SBs is someone I met for a PPM, and it was great, but then she said that she will never do that again. And so, I had to cajole her into seeing me a few times on real dates. We had lunch. We did window shopping. When she saw something she liked, I bought it for her. One time, I even bought her an expensive piece of jewelry. So one day, at lunch, she said, let's go to a hotel. She even paid for the room! A few days later, I said, "I know you have some stress about your mortgage back home, which is $1,200 per month. I like you a lot. And so, let me pay your mortgage for you every month." For me, I thought it was very important for me to wait a few days before I suggested paying her mortgage, so she didn't feel I was paying her for sex. That was a couple of months ago. Since then, I've been seeing her almost twice per week at my love shack. And each time meet, I give her nothing. At the end of the month, I give her money for her mortgage. Sometimes, I might still buy her stuff when she sees something she likes. But this relationship works because we keep money separate from sex. But it took a long time and a lot of money to get this established and running smoothly. She now even buys me small gifts (one time, she gave me a nice gift) and pays for lunch sometimes.




Anyways, I've been using Seeking in Mexico City and Colombia over the past couple of months while traveling. I've got to say, it takes a lot of time and patience for flakes, but the reward may be worth it depending on who you are. On multiple occasions I've had girls confirm with the day of and never show up. One girl even had the balls to say she was in the Uber on the way over and she ghosted me. And in general these girls will go days without answering their messages. But the upside is potentially so sweet. You might find a novia (feel like I've already struck gold) or at least find some very cute university girls / non-pros that you can chill with.

With these non-pros, there's no clock watching, complete GFE, and its a girl that I can just hang out with for hours and have a real conversation with. Yeah, this is exactly the tradeoff. SA can be a lot of time and aggravation, but when you find good SBs, then it's totally worth it.

DramaFree11
11-14-20, 03:56
Thanks for sharing your story. Yeah, when we meet a non pro on SA, we have to tread carefully and not treat them like a pro and not treat them like something that we are buying. As Pessimist, WyattEarp, and Steve9696 have said recently and in the past, we have to separate the money and sex for non pro SA gals, otherwise they will feel bad about themselves. But this is easier said than done. In the beginning, when we meet an non pro SB for the first time, how do we separate the money from the sex? This is very hard to do. Many years ago, when I was pretty new to SA, I had a great first date, and she suddenly said, "lets go back to my place and snuggle. " I was stunned and thrilled. So I said, "okay, and I will give you $500. " She shot back, "I am not a prostitute!" I quickly apologized and told her that I was so crazy about her, that I lost my mind. That calmed her down. So, yeah, we have to separate money from sex, but how? I guess the best thing to do is to NOT bring up money unless she brings it up. This has worked for me on occassion. What I will do is listen carefully on the first date, and if we end up in the sack, then the next day, I will say, "last night, you told me your dog needed to see the vet today, I love dogs, so let me pay for that, here's $200. " Or, I will look for opportunities to pay for something else. Another example is that on the next day after a successful first date, I said, "I see your car door handle is broken. You should fix that. Let me give you $300. "..Wow, amazing report. I learned a lot, thanks for the advice and wisdom.

Pessimist
11-14-20, 13:41
It is not difficult to separate money and sex during the discussions. I tell them I do give allowance / gifts. In fact I said so in my profile description itself. More than half the guys on SA are freeloaders and girls are assured if you tell them you will give allowance. Then the next question is how much and what is involved. If they ask me, I say the allowance can be help towards some of their expenses such as rent or books or just a cash amount to help out. If they press further, I will give a sense of the range of amounts I have given in the past. SOme ask what they need to do in return. I will keep it very general and will say that "just to get to know each other, how we get along and go from there". Most sensible girls know and realize they are not going to receive hundreds of dollars just for meeting for coffee. Well, if they do that is their problem because I am not giving them any cash after a coffee meet anyway. The important thing to do is never bring up sex explicitly in any discussion. Sooner or later the girl realizes she will see the money only she give it up. And as I said again and again, it is important you enjoy the process. If you are impatient and want to jump in the sack in 2 days, well ain't going to happen, not the way I do it. But that is why it is important to build a rolodex over time. Once you have had sex w / a girl, you don't have to do that dance all over again. From then on, it becomes totally normal, no discussion required whatsoever.

Steve 9696
11-15-20, 02:26
So still coming off the high of Alexa. Definitely one of my best life experiences. And she's so girlfriendy we chat nearly daily. It's almost like a real relationship.

Meanwhile Layla is kinda ghosting me after I ghosted her while with Alexa. It occurred to me that I've advanced her about $900 more than the sex we've had. So I realized she's not wanting to deal with the $900. Pondering this. Going to be important soon.

Recently also had a date with a stripper (Noelle) and met another on SA and realized the local club might be a place to find a hookup. So I've stopped in a few times. Still holding out a little hope but so far the strippers are proving lame:

1. Isabella is hot and fun. I get her number. Convinces me to do a private dance with her friend. It is of course lame and expensive as almost all US strip clubs are. Nonetheless we text back and forth and agree on a date. Set the time and place and everything. Then day of date she ghosts me.

2. Next day I find Aimee and she is totally new. A good thing. Get her number and try to generate some interest but seems pretty cool. May see her at the club again and see. She seems sweet and impressionable.

3. Arianna. From SA refuses to meet outside the club. Clearly just out to get a champagne room rip-off. Boo.

4. Noelle. This is the girl I had a great date with. She's on stage when I arrive. She says she thought I'the be mad at her but I say let's talk it out. First she contends I came on too strong (uh actually real girls are much more DTF than u) but then admits she will only do "fun time" but no sex. Wants $$ to be arm candy. Uh no. Time waster!

So really the stripper angle has been a bust. But hey window shopping is fun so I may keep it up.

So as I am nursing my wounds at the club after the Noelle fiasco I text Layla and say just tell me ur ok and she says shes been stressing about money and car repairs and all. So now, knowing my options are limited, I know what I have to do if I wanna get back in the game and say you can keep the $900 and if u ever wanna hook up hit me up and what do U know? She says what are u doing right now? Hahaha that was easy.

I tell her Ive only got a half hour but ten minutes later we go do a BJ in the car and I give her a small amount. Its naughty and quick after blue balls and b*tches in the club and we are both happy. Then we meet up the next day and do 2 hours of nonstop sex for the usual allowance. So we are back on pretty much sex in call. ($900 is not a huge amount of money to me and really shes been charging me $100-150 under market since August. And now I have sex on call again. Totally worth it.)

In other developments I've found a girl on the other end of the spectrum. Recent breakup. Never done SA. Manage to get her out on a date by swearing we will not do anything more than kiss (which both put her at ease and put kissing on the menu!) and it went super well. It was a little awkward because she's nervous. But after a bunch of drinks we go for a walk. I stop her and go for a kiss and after two soft close lips kisses the tongues come out and it's full on mackin. We walk back to my car and make out again. Wow. Really good. She's a great and passionate kisser. Felt like if we didn't have the pact it was on.

So now the question for you fellows. What's the next step? Another date and try for a hotel close? Talk a bit about what she sees as next steps? Start hinting private time is next? Anyone broken in a nervous first timer? Thoughts?

Midwestern
11-15-20, 02:41
If you are impatient and want to jump in the sack in 2 days, well ain't going to happen, not the way I do it. But that is why it is important to build a rolodex over time. Once you have had sex w / a girl, you don't have to do that dance all over again. From then on, it becomes totally normal, no discussion required whatsoever.Yes, this is exactly what I mean. It is not easy to jump in the sack right away. In the beginning, we have to delicately let a non-pro SA gal know that we will help them out financially, but we do not think of them as pros. It takes time to give her both assurances. Both are important to many non-pro SA gals. For me, it has worked out eventually ONLY when the gal genuinely likes me and is attracted to me. If she doesn't, then it doesn't work out for me despite my best efforts at giving her both assurances. For example, I have given money to girls to show them that I respect their time or to help them out with a bill or payment, but if we don't have sex by the 3rd date at the latest, then I know she's not really attracted to me and is only in it for the money, so I bail.

To make it seem non-transactional, this means we have to give them money when there is no sex. If you only give them money when you have sex, this does not separate money from sex that well, at least not in her mind. I still say it is tricky. Not easy to do. For example, how many of us have had sex with an SB and did not give her money on that day? It probably almost never happens. It only happens after a long process. It took me weeks and active effort to establish it with one SB, and it took me months to establish it with another SB, where we can now meet for sex and I don't pay them a dime, because they know I will help them out when they need it later because they now think we are in some sort of real relationship.

DramaFree11
11-15-20, 02:48
Yes, this is exactly what I mean. It is not easy to jump in the sack right away. In the beginning, we have to delicately let a non-pro SA gal know that we will help them out financially, but we do not think of them as pros. It takes time to give her both assurances. Both are important to many non-pro SA gals. For me, it has worked out eventually ONLY when the gal genuinely likes me and is attracted to me. If she doesn't, then it doesn't work out for me despite my best efforts at giving her both assurances. For example, I have given money to girls to show them that I respect their time or to help them out with a bill or payment, but if we don't have sex by the 3rd date at the latest, then I know she's not really attracted to me and is only in it for the money, so I bail.

To make it seem non-transactional, this means we have to give them money when there is no sex. If you only give them money when you have sex, this does not separate money from sex that well, at least not in her mind. I still say it is tricky. Not easy to do. For example, how many of us have had sex with an SB and did not give her money on that day? It probably almost never happens. It only happens after a long process. It took me weeks and active effort to establish it with one SB, and it took me months to establish it with another SB, where we can now meet for sex and I don't pay them a dime, because they know I will help them out when they need it later because they now think we are in some sort of real relationship.Question, I have found the girls that want gifts instead of money seem much more High Maintenance, what do you guys think? This last couple of reports real have me thinking, but I am not sure I am interested if there is not sex in Mexico. The girls that just wanted gifts, real were not looking for sex, in my opinion.

As far as gift they are special to me and I want them to be more meaningful if that makes sense, so I would rather give money.

Midwestern
11-15-20, 02:52
So now the question for you fellows. What's the next step? Another date and try for a hotel close? Talk a bit about what she sees as next steps? Start hinting private time is next? Anyone broken in a nervous first timer? Thoughts?If it were me, I would do another date like this. Then, on the third date, if you guys are still doing DFK, then ask if you can go to a hotel. If she says no, then bail on her after the date. I have a 3 date rule when it comes to real dating (that is, sex has to happen by the 3rd date, otherwise, she is stringing you along), so why wouldn't I apply the same rule for SA dating?

For normal dating, what is your "X" date rule?

Steve 9696
11-15-20, 04:27
If it were me, I would do another date like this. Then, on the third date, if you guys are still doing DFK, then ask if you can go to a hotel. If she says no, then bail on her after the date. I have a 3 date rule when it comes to real dating (that is, sex has to happen by the 3rd date, otherwise, she is stringing you along), so why wouldn't I apply the same rule for SA dating?

For normal dating, what is your "X" date rule?Thanks sound advice. In the meantime we were chatting tonight and she asked how my day was. I gave her a full account and she said the only thing missing was someone to cuddle. Door open! We chatted some more and I think I charmed her pants off LOL because we are on for later this week with strongly implied hotel time. Cross your fingers.

Oneminuteboy
11-16-20, 13:41
Just because work is slow right now, thought I am going to share some of my SA experiences in my home country.

So I live in a northern European country where the girls are not considered the most beautiful, but still some lookers of course. I have had encounters with I think 7 or 8 girls over the last few months, have had sex with some, not with some, but overall has been a very interesting experience. SA girls are quite flaky and its a bit difficult to match schedules, arrange hotels and stuff when you are mongering in your own city. Thats why I have missed on meeting quite a few interesting ones, but the haul has not been bad by any measure. Here goes:

.....


If you guys are interested in reading more, just let me know and I will try to share my experiences with some other girls.
I'm interested in hearing more. To compare it with my own.

My experience, aside from 1, is that the subject of sex in the same sentence as money is very taboo in my country.
While the subject of money / compensation is no problem, the mention of sex gets response "we'll see how things go".

The 1 good one I met I've seen a couple of times now. We've now gotten to the point that she doesn't expect her PPM fee every time we meet.
Because she trusts me and enjoys the time together. And knows I pay for every thing while we spend time together.
While I still look for a 2nd regular one, she has raised the bar of what I'm willing to accept for a SB. Which only makes things more difficult in my country.



When I look at SB's from Lisbon / Portugal, they are open about the sex part. And mostly easy going.
And the impression I got was that they were looking for a fun time. And didn't quote insane prices.
I had to postpone my trip there due to circumstances but am definitely re-planning due to the small rolodex I built up.

Pessimist
11-16-20, 23:22
Yes, this is exactly what I mean. It is not easy to jump in the sack right away. In the beginning, we have to delicately let a non-pro SA gal know that we will help them out financially, but we do not think of them as pros. It takes time to give her both assurances. Both are important to many non-pro SA gals. For me, it has worked out eventually ONLY when the gal genuinely likes me and is attracted to me. If she doesn't, then it doesn't work out for me despite my best efforts at giving her both assurances. For example, I have given money to girls to show them that I respect their time or to help them out with a bill or payment, but if we don't have sex by the 3rd date at the latest, then I know she's not really attracted to me and is only in it for the money, so I bail.

To make it seem non-transactional, this means we have to give them money when there is no sex. If you only give them money when you have sex, this does not separate money from sex that well, at least not in her mind. I still say it is tricky. Not easy to do. For example, how many of us have had sex with an SB and did not give her money on that day? It probably almost never happens. It only happens after a long process. It took me weeks and active effort to establish it with one SB, and it took me months to establish it with another SB, where we can now meet for sex and I don't pay them a dime, because they know I will help them out when they need it later because they now think we are in some sort of real relationship.It depends on where you met the girl, right?

As I recall, you are meeting a lot of girls in Beijing but not through SA. Did I get that right?

In that case, their expectations are quite different.

I meet mostly through SA. Such girls have a different expectation. With the SA girls, it is definitely a transaction to a large extent but the trick is not to articulate the transaction in so many words. So, when I first meet the girl for a coffee / drink / dinner whatever that is, I pay for her share as on any date we would but do not give any cash. Some girls (or many) ask upfront if I give them any cash allowance for first meet and I say no, I do not give any allowance for meet and greets as she also benefits from them as much as I do. If they insist, I just ignore them. Some of them come back and say "OK, I will meet for a lunch w / o upfront allowance", and some just block me and move on. Either is fine.

But if the meet and greet goes well and ends up in sex, I do give her the allowance obviously. And the girl knows when she will get allowance and when she won't. No need to enunciate any of this in any words. They are smart, can put two and two together.

But I know it is a different process with girls you meet through non-SA channels, as you do. I did use Tinder a while ago and met a few and for a couple of them gave some gifts as in a traditional sugar babe arrangement but they turned out to be girls with some experience with sugar arrangements. I kinda got worried my identity would blow up on Tinder and left that app since then. SA feels much safer, I will not run into girls I know (and if I do, I can filter them out of course).

Ailton
11-16-20, 23:30
I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?

Pessimist
11-17-20, 04:40
I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?Would be interesting but numbers w / o context lose their meaning. I mean, even in the same city, I might pay x for a 20 year old pretty blonde, why for 25 year old curvy Latina, and z for <pick some other woman type . And those might change if I am seeing them just once, part of a regular arrangement, etc and some other dude may end up paying something else to the same ladies.

That said, the table would definitely lead to some interesting discussions and that alone is worth seeing the table.

Hope you enjoyed compiling it.

Akibono
11-17-20, 06:22
I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?Sure. All information is good. If you can indicate which points are estimates and guesses, the would also be good. But the usually caveat remains. There are only trends. Each girl is different.

Steve 9696
11-17-20, 13:49
I have compiled a table with typical allowances for a standard food / drinks+more arrangement for various places around the globe based on the data available in this thread and in country specific threads. Originally did that for my personal use for the coming months, but I thought it could be sensible to share in order to exchange data points and thus avoid overpaying and keep cost low in the long run.

Before I post, I wondered whether you guys are even interested in that?In general I think when in doubt post. I mean, people can easily skip posts and some might be interested. In this particular case I think there would be a lot of interested folks. Post away!

WyattEarp
11-17-20, 15:30
Basically, I take the conversation forward in one of two ways: If the girl is hot (normal hot, not WG hot), I try not to have the financial discussion upfront but do meet for a coffee.........I can understand from the context, but what does WG hot mean exactly?

I also presume you meet the hot ones for coffee first before unveiling your desire for carnal pleasure because these "hot" girls are getting chatted up for sex on-line quite regularly. This would be a way to establish some connection first.

Ailton
11-17-20, 23:07
Europe

Czech Republic Test 1 (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements/page2).

Member #4703
11-17-20, 23:23
I can understand from the context, but what does WG hot mean exactly?

I also presume you meet the hot ones for coffee first before unveiling your desire for carnal pleasure because these "hot" girls are getting chatted up for sex on-line quite regularly. This would be a way to establish some connection first.WG hot means girls with professional suggestive photoshoots, anyone with photos of luxury bags, luxury cars etc in their profile, or anything else that shows she just wants to earn as much money as she can as fast as possible. I don't touch them with a 10 foot pole. I find profiles having normal non-professional photos, at normal places and which do not mention things like "I like luxury things and want my sugar daddy to support me in blah blah blah". Probably if I had more time, I would have given some of them the benefit of doubt, but I always try to maximise the use of my limited time and opportunities to meet girls with whom I have the best chance of reaching the conclusion, even if they are not the hottest.

I am normally open to having just a coffee with girls that look nice (not necessarily hot) and with whom I find a nice click. Mostly, these are girls below 25 who work in the hospitality sector or are students. The ones that are open to intimacy on the first date are mostly in the age range 27-33, although I have had sex with a 22 year old on the first date.

Maybe the reason a direct approach works in my country is because people are very direct here, almost to the fault of being rude. I can understand the advise of being political and not mentioning sex in the first conversation in other countries like the US, but here nobody that I have to talked to has ever been offended when I mentioned the possibility of being intimate in the future when we were having our first coffee / drink. The normal answer to that in 90% of the cases is: If there is a click, we can go forward.

Different rules work for different places, I guess.

All that said, I absolutely love the chase and the gradual breaking down of the barriers of a girl who is on the fence. It is an ego booster for sure and I love to hone my game. When I got SA membership the first time, I almost did not work at all in the week I had SA and spent more than 8 hours everyday chatting up girls and trying to build a rolodex haha. Its a pity that I do not have the opportunity to take most of my conversation offline.

Ailton
11-18-20, 00:40
The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.

EUROPE

Austria

Vienna 300 EUR for the Night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952).

Czech Republic

Prague 300 - 350 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118) 200 EUR for the night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952) 150 - 300 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2445539&viewfull=1#post2445539).

Germany

Berlin 300 - 350 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118) 500 EUR for the night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952).

Netherlands

Amsterdam 200 EUR for a couple of hours. 300 for a whole night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?).

Poland

Warsaw 300 - 350 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118).

Portugal

Lisbon 150 - 200 EUR for a couple of hours to a whole night, depending on girl(targeting only top 20% of the girls, no 25+ or fat girls) (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?) 100 - 200 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2499125&viewfull=1#post2499125).

Spain

Barcelona Full weekend: 300 EUR. Generally 200 - 500 EUR for a weekend. (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952).

Ukraine

Kiev 250 USD, disputed, several data points lower than that (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2493582&viewfull=1#post2493582) 140 - 180 USD (4000-5000 UAH) (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2497541&viewfull=1#post2497541).

United Kingdom

London 300 - 350 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118) 350 Sterling (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2411854&viewfull=1#post2411854).

North America

United States

Atlanta 200 - 350 USD for a solid 6 to 8 (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449909&viewfull=1#post2449909).

Austin 400 - 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062).

Boston 300 - 350 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2417099&viewfull=1#post2417099).

Chicago Under 300 USD is doable (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?).

Denver 200 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118).

Detroit 300 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

Houston 400 - 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062).

Jacksonville (FL) 150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9 (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459).

Las Vegas 400 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

LOS Angeles 200 USD second tier. 300 first tier. (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167) 300 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2450228&viewfull=1#post2450228).

Miami 300 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

Milwaukee Under 300 USD is doable (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?).

Nashville 200 USD second tier. 300 first tier. (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

New York City 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132) 400 USD second tier, 500 USD first tier (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

Portland 300 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2413337&viewfull=1#post2413337).

San Antonio 300 - 350 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062).

San Francisco 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132) 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448844&viewfull=1#post2448844) 300 USD for exchange student (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448831&viewfull=1#post2448831).

Savannah (GA) 150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9 (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459).

Canada

Montreal 300 CAD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?806-Zurich&p=2500452&viewfull=1#post2500452).

Mexico

Mexico City 1500 - 3000 MXN, possibly 4000 MXN for high-end. (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2485508&viewfull=1#post2485508).

SOUTH AMERICA

Brazil

Sao Paulo 800 Rs for model quality (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768).

Colombia

Medellin 7-8 girl 100 USD todo la noche, 8.5 - 9 girl 100 - 200 USD all day (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768) 100 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2419466&viewfull=1#post2419466).

Peru

Cusco 100 USD for whole weekend (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448824&viewfull=1#post2448824).

ASIA

United Arab Emirates

Dubai Depending on Tier: 400 - 800 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3910-Sugar-Life&p=2381783&viewfull=1#post2381783).

OCEANIA

Australia

Sydney 400 - 500 AUD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-840-p-28.html?).

BrizLad
11-18-20, 05:31
I find profiles having normal non-professional photos, at normal places and which do not mention things like "I like luxury things and want my sugar daddy to support me in blah blah blah". e.I also steer well clear of profiles with statements like:

"I want to be spoiled."

"I want to experience what it is to live a life of luxury."

"Allowance plus shopping trips".

For me these have gotten the world the wrong way around. Certainly I have spoiled girls after they have proven themselves but I don't get any pleasure from doing it on demand.

Midwestern
11-18-20, 14:19
Ailton, this is fucking awesome! I especially like the links so that we can see the post and who you got the data point from! The links are what makes this amazing. I cannot believe you did this. Please maintain this! You are awesome. You're our data guy.


The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.

EUROPE

Austria

Vienna 300 EUR for the Night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952).

Czech Republic

Prague 300 - 350 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118) 200 EUR for the night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952) 150 - 300 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2445539&viewfull=1#post2445539).

Germany

Berlin 300 - 350 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118) 500 EUR for the night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952).

Netherlands

Amsterdam 200 EUR for a couple of hours. 300 for a whole night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?).

Poland

Warsaw 300 - 350 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118).

Portugal

Lisbon 150 - 200 EUR for a couple of hours to a whole night, depending on girl(targeting only top 20% of the girls, no 25+ or fat girls) (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?) 100 - 200 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2499125&viewfull=1#post2499125).

Spain

Barcelona Full weekend: 300 EUR. Generally 200 - 500 EUR for a weekend. (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952).

Ukraine

Kiev 250 USD, disputed, several data points lower than that (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2493582&viewfull=1#post2493582) 140 - 180 USD (4000-5000 UAH) (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2497541&viewfull=1#post2497541).

United Kingdom

London 300 - 350 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118) 350 Sterling (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2411854&viewfull=1#post2411854).

North America

United States

Atlanta 200 - 350 USD for a solid 6 to 8 (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449909&viewfull=1#post2449909).

Austin 400 - 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062).

Boston 300 - 350 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2417099&viewfull=1#post2417099).

Chicago Under 300 USD is doable (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?).

Denver 200 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118).

Detroit 300 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

Houston 400 - 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062).

Jacksonville (FL) 150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9 (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459).

Las Vegas 400 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

LOS Angeles 200 USD second tier. 300 first tier. (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167) 300 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2450228&viewfull=1#post2450228).

Miami 300 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

Milwaukee Under 300 USD is doable (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-4144-p-5.html?).

Nashville 200 USD second tier. 300 first tier. (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

New York City 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132) 400 USD second tier, 500 USD first tier (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449167&viewfull=1#post2449167).

Portland 300 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2413337&viewfull=1#post2413337).

San Antonio 300 - 350 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2438062&viewfull=1#post2438062).

San Francisco 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491132&viewfull=1#post2491132) 500 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448844&viewfull=1#post2448844) 300 USD for exchange student (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448831&viewfull=1#post2448831).

Savannah (GA) 150 - 200 USD for a 6/7. 200 - 250 USD for a 7/8 college aged. 400 USD solid 9 (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449459&viewfull=1#post2449459).

Canada

Montreal 300 CAD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?806-Zurich&p=2500452&viewfull=1#post2500452).

Mexico

Mexico City 1500 - 3000 MXN, possibly 4000 MXN for high-end. (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2485508&viewfull=1#post2485508).

SOUTH AMERICA

Brazil

Sao Paulo 800 Rs for model quality (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768).

Colombia

Medellin 7-8 girl 100 USD todo la noche, 8.5 - 9 girl 100 - 200 USD all day (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448768&viewfull=1#post2448768) 100 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?583-Medellin-Reports&p=2419466&viewfull=1#post2419466).

Peru

Cusco 100 USD for whole weekend (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2448824&viewfull=1#post2448824).

ASIA

United Arab Emirates

Dubai Depending on Tier: 400 - 800 USD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?3910-Sugar-Life&p=2381783&viewfull=1#post2381783).

OCEANIA

Australia

Sydney 400 - 500 AUD (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/archive/index.php/t-840-p-28.html?).

Pessimist
11-18-20, 17:19
Second MW. Lovely list. Obviously everyone's personal experiences differ slightly but in cities that I have used SA services your numbers approximately match my own personal experience. I never tried the weekend arrangements in Barcelona etc and those sound like fantastic deals. I have paid 200 E for a normal meet in those places however. Generally, 200 to 250 is a good price in Europe, depending on the girl. I think my deals were at lesser amounts in TX than what your list says and 300-350 in London sounds like a great deal. Never got it. I stopped trying in London in my last couple of visits and now just enjoy the city.

Are these compiled from data points supplied on ISG or did you combine with external inputs?

Thanks again.


The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.

EUROPE

Austria

Vienna 300 EUR for the Night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952).

Czech Republic

Prague 300 - 350 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2491118&viewfull=1#post2491118) 200 EUR for the night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952) 150 - 300 EUR (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2445539&viewfull=1#post2445539)...

AmsBoy
11-18-20, 17:29
I would like to give back to this forum as I have learnt a lot about SA from the many posters here. Thanks you guys, you are doing an amazing job!

I have been on SA since March this year. I usually do not have much time to spend on SA therefore over the months I have adjusted my approach and now basically my game is to chat as less as possible on SA and move her to WhatsApp, after giving her clear indication that I am looking for intimacy. This helps me in avoiding any misunderstanding and my time being wasted. I understand that this can be bit direct for other countries, but this works in my case as I am in Netherlands and people generally here are straight forward.

Anyways, moving on. Once we are on WhatsApp, I don't waste my time beyond exchanging initial pleasantries and I mostly (90% of the time) follow up with a question "So what kind of arrangements do you usually do"? Now, there could be number of possible answers (which I don't give a fuck about) but it helps me to break the ice and perhaps have a discussion about the arrangement and the price. Once, we agree on a date and before I book a hotel, I usually have a call (this is to make sure that its not a scam, and to get a feel of the potential lay).

Now about prices, I have seen that most of the girls (aged 19-21) agree for 200 euros for 3 to 4 hours for a first date itself (no coffee, no meeting up before hotel date bullshit). In my experience, girls who are 23 and above have quoted 500 and plus, however some do come back to the line and have agreed for 250-300 (after I totally refuse or negotiate, depends on how hot the girl is). Then there is this other category of girls which after quoting 500/600 Euros, negotiate based on the time, saying that they could spend only 1 hour or 2 hours for 250 euros. I am usually not interested in them, as I get a feeling of a regular WG.

So to summarize. My highest success rate has been with girls from age 19-21, with a price of 200 PPM. And so far I have sampled around 10-12 different girls from SA and have only repeated 1 because I paid her 300 for the first time and then tried my luck with 200 and she agreed.

Hope this gives a little bit of perspective to the guys who are new to SA.

WyattEarp
11-18-20, 20:18
The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.

EUROPE

Austria

Vienna 300 EUR for the Night (http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4144-Seeking-Arrangements&p=2449952&viewfull=1#post2449952).....................Excellent summary with source links. Gives you an idea what cities are the most expensive for sugar babies. With USA Dollars, I'm intrigued by Montreal. Montreal is not an expensive city for Americans. The Quebecoise women are also more open sexually. It's also relatively easy to get to MTL.

When negotiating, you will always have to deal with the compounding effect of different ranges. First, the range for allowances. Second, does a woman who might be a 7 think she is an 8. I think many of the experienced daddies here are very good at finding attractive girls who are reasonable and modest.

Oneminuteboy
11-19-20, 01:04
I would like to give back to this forum as I have learnt a lot about SA from the many posters here. Thanks you guys, you are doing an amazing job!

I have been on SA since March this year. I usually do not have much time to spend on SA therefore over the months I have adjusted my approach and now basically my game is to chat as less as possible on SA and move her to WhatsApp, after giving her clear indication that I am looking for intimacy. This helps me in avoiding any misunderstanding and my time being wasted. I understand that this can be bit direct for other countries, but this works in my case as I am in Netherlands and people generally here are straight forward.

So to summarize. My highest success rate has been with girls from age 19-21, with a price of 200 PPM. And so far I have sampled around 10-12 different girls from SA and have only repeated 1 because I paid her 300 for the first time and then tried my luck with 200 and she agreed.

Hope this gives a little bit of perspective to the guys who are new to SA.Thanks for this info. Looks like I need to be less softer in my approach.


The data isn't that extensive yet as I was focussing on one particular country that I will be travelling next year. I am looking forward to contributions, specifically I would be personally interested to find out about Istanbul, St Petersburg and Italy. All data points are appropriately referenced with links within this forum which should capacitate one to get into touch with the respective member that has experience with the destination of interest. Please advise if you find any misrepresentations.
Amazing, very useful. I see similarities and also where I'm off. Thank you, brother.


Sure, I have a different approach than most of the guys on this forum, and that is purely because of my personal limitations about how much time and how often I can spend time with girls I meet through SA. While I agree in principle on the advice "keep money and time separate" and agree that this should be the way to enjoy sugar dating to the fullest, my approach is to keep the arrangement clear.


I also have a girl who I met a couple of times now like you, and on our second meeting, she told me that I don't have to give her an amount per date. I normally try to do a whole afternoon and evening with her with a lunch and at least 4-5 hours in the room. She said that maybe she can give me her bank account, and I can just deposit money in it whenever I feel like. It would have been a good arrangement if I had the time for a monthly arrangement. Unfortunately, I don't, so to keep things simple, I only do PPMs. It works for me since I am able to take time out only maybe twice a month for SA girls (coffee or hotels).Thanks for the insight. Helps a lot.

DramaFree11
11-19-20, 02:00
Ailton, this is fucking awesome! I especially like the links so that we can see the post and who you got the data point from! The links are what makes this amazing. I cannot believe you did this. Please maintain this! You are awesome. You're our data guy.
Ailton, this is fucking awesome! I especially like the links so that we can see the post and who you got the data point from! The links are what makes this amazing. I cannot believe you did this. Please maintain this! You are awesome. You're our data guy.Awesome report, MTY is 3000-4500 pesos, $150-250. (This is for several hours, depending on your game, Range from 6-8. 5's all day long) Moscow $150-350, once you get above $200 you can score some stunners.

Ailton
11-19-20, 02:22
Ailton, this is fucking awesome! I especially like the links so that we can see the post and who you got the data point from! The links are what makes this amazing. I cannot believe you did this. Please maintain this! You are awesome. You're our data guy.You are welcome. You guys have saved me a lot of money, as I was originally willing to pay to pay much more. I simply maintained an excel sheet and whenever I saw something of interest, made an entry. Will definitely maintain the work.


Second MW. Lovely list. Obviously everyone's personal experiences differ slightly but in cities that I have used SA services your numbers approximately match my own personal experience. I never tried the weekend arrangements in Barcelona etc and those sound like fantastic deals. I have paid 200 E for a normal meet in those places however. Generally, 200 to 250 is a good price in Europe, depending on the girl. I think my deals were at lesser amounts in TX than what your list says and 300-350 in London sounds like a great deal. Never got it. I stopped trying in London in my last couple of visits and now just enjoy the city.No problem! What was your experience in London? Were the quotes considerably higher than what other members have stated?


Are these compiled from data points supplied on ISG or did you combine with external inputs?Until now, it is ISG only.


Now about prices, I have seen that most of the girls (aged 19-21) agree for 200 euros for 3 to 4 hours for a first date itself (no coffee, no meeting up before hotel date bullshit). In my experience, girls who are 23 and above have quoted 500 and plus, however some do come back to the line and have agreed for 250-300 (after I totally refuse or negotiate, depends on how hot the girl is). Then there is this other category of girls which after quoting 500/600 Euros, negotiate based on the time, saying that they could spend only 1 hour or 2 hours for 250 euros. I am usually not interested in them, as I get a feeling of a regular WG.

So to summarize. My highest success rate has been with girls from age 19-21, with a price of 200 PPM. And so far I have sampled around 10-12 different girls from SA and have only repeated 1 because I paid her 300 for the first time and then tried my luck with 200 and she agreed.Your numbers are great! Thank you for that addition. Am I right to assume that these numbers should apply to the whole of NL?


Excellent summary with source links. Gives you an idea what cities are the most expensive for sugar babies. With USA Dollars, I'm intrigued by Montreal. Montreal is not an expensive city for Americans. The Quebecoise women are also more open sexually. It's also relatively easy to get to MTL.Absolutely agree. The offerings between MTL and QC are also vast on SA. Looking forward to spoil you with a good report on MTL in the first half of 2021.

(just realized I saved the wrong link for MTL or the original post has been deleted, maybe one of you guys could help out with that. I strongly suspect MTL might be a sweet spot).

Ailton
11-19-20, 05:42
Awesome report, MTY is 3000-4500 pesos, $150-250. (This is for several hours, depending on your game, Range from 6-8. 5's all day long) Moscow $150-350, once you get above $200 you can score some stunners.Thank you for these numbers. Mongering in Russia must be an adventure!

Midwestern
11-19-20, 06:11
Ailton: Here's another data point for your database. I used SA a lot in Niagara Falls, Canada. A few years ago, the price point was 200-250 CAD. However, a year ago, the gals were asking for 300 CAD. I bet 250 CAD is still possible though. That's a bargain, considering the exchange rate, and considering how pretty decent looking the gals were. The thing about Niagara Falls, Canada, is that there a LOT of people there that work in the tourism industry, but they do not make much money, and so there are many gals looking to make extra money on the side, and there are a lot of hotties there too. The other thing about Niagara Falls, Canada, is that the pros charge around 200 CAD (if my recollection is correct), and so the competition from pros keeps the SB rates low and competitive.

Akibono
11-19-20, 06:25
What would be of great help in filling out the chart is some indication of the success rates in the various places. It is one thing to find a data point. It is entirely another thing to know how much chaff you have to sort through to get a good SB. It will always be a chore, but some cities / countries are more target rich while others are simply not worth the effort. That is why a WG is a good option. You don't have to nego and sex is a sure thing. In any case, thanks to all for providing much needed data and experiences.

AmsBoy
11-19-20, 10:53
Your numbers are great! Thank you for that addition. Am I right to assume that these numbers should apply to the whole of NL? From my experience, I have usually approached girls in and around Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague area. So I think that should cover the major part of the country.

Pessimist
11-19-20, 16:22
No problem! What was your experience in London? Were the quotes considerably higher than what other members have stated?.My experiences in London were in my role as a visitor only, did not live in London during the time I have had my SA subscription. That is now nearing 5 years, and visited London may be 6 times in this period. The most I ever managed was a couple of drink / dinner meets. Was stood up twice. Girls demanded upfront gifts / allowances just to meet and that is not acceptable to me. The ones that progressed to a face to face meet were looking at north of 4 to 5, and that was not particularly attractive. It also generally happened that in most of those visits I was visiting continental Europe along with London, and I knew that I would either visit FKKs or brothels or have a better deal in the countries I was visiting, so I passed. Perhaps if I had been a local and with more patience, I would have had an easier time in London.

Steve 9696
11-19-20, 18:39
My experiences in London were in my role as a visitor only, did not live in London during the time I have had my SA subscription. That is now nearing 5 years, and visited London may be 6 times in this period. The most I ever managed was a couple of drink / dinner meets. Was stood up twice. Girls demanded upfront gifts / allowances just to meet and that is not acceptable to me. The ones that progressed to a face to face meet were looking at north of 4 to 5, and that was not particularly attractive. It also generally happened that in most of those visits I was visiting continental Europe along with London, and I knew that I would either visit FKKs or brothels or have a better deal in the countries I was visiting, so I passed. Perhaps if I had been a local and with more patience, I would have had an easier time in London.There is definitely limited data on London so guessing he used my reports. I think it makes sense that there is limited data because the Diva agency girls are awesome And well priced. So you really have to be after the full dinner etc experience to bother with SA. My two SA experiences in London were as follows (happy to report full reports if you like):

1 Oct 2019 Desperate for the full date experience. Found a Columbiana at the last minute. She wanted 350 which seemed high to me but I went with it. It was her friends birthday so she came too. End up with four hours of dinner dancing drinking and sex with a seven and a nine. It was a great deal in the end.

2 Feb 2020. Again quite last minute. I was using the "I'm going dancing in Soho. Join me. " approach and got several bites. Finally settled on complete non-pro but she wouldn't budge below 250 . Came straight to my room but was a slow starter. Two hours of drink and chat and then 2 hrs of non stop amazing sex. Solid 8. 5.

So I've gotten extremely good value. But maybe lucky. Certainly a four hour duo for 350 doesn't happen every day!

WyattEarp
11-19-20, 20:35
What would be of great help in filling out the chart is some indication of the success rates in the various places. It is one thing to find a data point. It is entirely another thing to know how much chaff you have to sort through to get a good SB. It will always be a chore, but some cities / countries are more target rich while others are simply not worth the effort. That is why a WG is a good option. You don't have to nego and sex is a sure thing. In any case, thanks to all for providing much needed data and experiences.This would be a very difficult task. You would be quantifying the almost totally subjective. Beyond the dollars and euros, there is a lot of game involved. I suppose one can make generalizations about a city, but I think that would have limited use. Some guys are also good screeners as well as good communicators.

DramaFree11
11-19-20, 21:31
Thank you for these numbers. Mongering in Russia must be an adventure!Yes, it was heaven, but Russia girls are lazy and love there holidays. For those reasons I kins of prefer MTY, girls are a little bit more grounded and realistic. Russian girls live in a fantasy world when it comes to money.

I do miss the Discos in Moscow, but those days are over, maybe for a long time. Each time I would go back less and less people were going to the night clubs, for all different reasons. They were only good on Fridays and Saturdays were hit or miss.

Pessimist
11-19-20, 23:13
There is definitely limited data on London so guessing he used my reports. I think it makes sense that there is limited data because the Diva agency girls are awesome And well priced. So you really have to be after the full dinner etc experience to bother with SA. My two SA experiences in London were as follows (happy to report full reports if you like):

1 Oct 2019 Desperate for the full date experience. Found a Columbiana at the last minute. She wanted 350 which seemed high to me but I went with it. It was her friends birthday so she came too. End up with four hours of dinner dancing drinking and sex with a seven and a nine. It was a great deal in the end.

2 Feb 2020. Again quite last minute. I was using the "I'm going dancing in Soho. Join me. " approach and got several bites. Finally settled on complete non-pro but she wouldn't budge below 250 . Came straight to my room but was a slow starter. Two hours of drink and chat and then 2 hrs of non stop amazing sex. Solid 8. 5.

So I've gotten extremely good value. But maybe lucky. Certainly a four hour duo for 350 doesn't happen every day!Thanks for sharing. Those are good experiences. I do remember your Diva reports. What drives your decision to pick Diva or SA girls when in London? I figured you liked Diva so much that you would probably go with them all the time when visiting in London, so perhaps SA is a change up? Its kinda like when in Frankfurt or NRW, I will hardly bother w / SA because my entire schedule in those places is around visiting FKKs.

Midwestern
11-20-20, 00:36
This would be a very difficult task. You would be quantifying the almost totally subjective. Beyond the dollars and euros, there is a lot of game involved. I suppose one can make generalizations about a city, but I think that would have limited use. Some guys are also good screeners as well as good communicators.I totally agree with you, but I also agree with Akinono that this would be a useful piece of information. Maybe we can just generalize it to High Success, Medium Success, Low Success.

For example, it takes a ton of time to find a gem in SF (Low Success) especially given the SD competition and the many WGs on there, but pretty easy to find a nice SB in Portland and Las Vegas (High Success).

WyattEarp
11-20-20, 01:48
For example, it takes a ton of time to find a gem in SF (Low Success) especially given the SD competition and the many WGs on there, but pretty easy to find a nice SB in Portland and Las Vegas (High Success).That could work if it's not so specific.

San Francisco a very good example. It kind of hit me like a V8 (if one knows this old commercial). Many affluent tech guys with laboring social skills being hustled by more worldly SBs. Of course the more you climb the money ladder, the more you would expect SBs to be motivated.

Steve 9696
11-20-20, 02:47
Thanks for sharing. Those are good experiences. I do remember your Diva reports. What drives your decision to pick Diva or SA girls when in London? I figured you liked Diva so much that you would probably go with them all the time when visiting in London, so perhaps SA is a change up? Its kinda like when in Frankfurt or NRW, I will hardly bother w / SA because my entire schedule in those places is around visiting FKKs.Well I started with SA in London with the Coluombianas due to a unique situation. I'the flown Valentina from Buenos Aires to London after being smitten with her in BA and she dumped me on arrival! Fuck me. So I went to drown myself in Diva girls. And did. I did 9 diva visits including the legendary Melty. Meanwhile I happened upon two civvies that I wooed a bit but did not end up in the sack. One, Pamela, I would take to dinner and dancing but she was not DTF so I'the go have a Diva girl. So my last night I was determined to have the best of both worlds. An awesome date that leads to sex. And the Colombianas delivered in spades!

Next time I decided I liked the mix and match and was only in London one day. So I saw a Diva girl, an SA girl, and an Olina girl. It was quite the day!

Steve 9696
11-20-20, 03:11
Well I started with SA in London with the Coluombianas due to a unique situation. I'the flown Valentina from Buenos Aires to London after being smitten with her in BA and she dumped me on arrival! Fuck me. So I went to drown myself in Diva girls. And did. I did 9 diva visits including the legendary Melty. Meanwhile I happened upon two civvies that I wooed a bit but did not end up in the sack. One, Pamela, I would take to dinner and dancing but she was not DTF so I'the go have a Diva girl. So my last night I was determined to have the best of both worlds. An awesome date that leads to sex. And the Colombianas delivered in spades!

Next time I decided I liked the mix and match and was only in London one day. So I saw a Diva girl, an SA girl, and an Olina girl. It was quite the day!Not sure I ever posted this experience. I cut out all the Diva girls and civvy dates to stay on topic. Here's the SA part.

For my final night I've decided even tho I love going dancing with Pam and having sex with an escort before or after, I really want the full package where the dancing LEADS TO the bedroom. So I start hitting Seeking Arrangement hard, actually starting in the Uber after I leave Pam. Right after I arrive at my hotel that night I hit upon a Colombian hottie but I don't hear back till she texts me back around 3 am.

I know this is a super risky move going to SA since it's hit or miss, and it could be a fail at the dinner table or in the room but I want to take the risk to have the reward of a blowout final night. And (spoiler alert!) a blowout it is.

So I explore all the options (limited) but manage to engage Tana (the Colombiana) in a dialogue that leads to pay dirt. She agrees to see me for 350 for 4-5 hrs of unrushed fun. Dinner dancing and room time. This seems high based on my SA experience to date, but my alternative had been Noleta at straight up Diva pricing of 450 for what would have to be a rushed 3 hours (or 600 for 4 hours yikes!) so I am Ok with her price.

Well the price turns out to be 1/2 off because she says it's her friends birthday and can she come too? At first I think she is trying to upsell me to 700 but she confirms no price change. A two for one deal. Two girls for four hours for 350 . Now THATS a deal (in London) OK baby, it's on!

And I would say we have a top 5 "full experience" kind of night. They both show up at VietFood (where I am repeating) and Tana is clearly a solid 9+. She's a little slim for me, but her face and hair are boner-producing perfection. OMG way prettier than her pics. And Liliana not as much. A 7 without her glasses and a six with them. But what a lovely sweet girl and she loves to dance. And way more affectionate than Tana holding hands and snuggling up against me at various points. They are a great team Tana brings the optics and Liliana brings the GFE. LOL.

We have a nice intro dinner where I teach them how to use chopsticks and they do quite well. I am a pretty good dinner companion and we fall into it effortlessly. Just three old friends having dinner. Great fun and great food. Honestly the best I've eaten in ten years.

We have a grand time at Bar Soho and GAY but we are now 2. 5 hours in and Tana suggests we go to the room, which is a good idea because we'll be 3 hours in by the time we reach the hotel. Possibly the highlight of the whole thing is the pedal cab ride home! (They have these bicycle powered rickshaws throughout Soho). We have cracked a bottle of wine and are drinking it from the bottle and they are cranking the Colombian tunes and singing along. Me as the creamy filling between the two hotties. OMG the funnest thing.

The sex is great but in a funny way. We're cuddling on the bed, Tana in just her thong (wow!) and Liliana fully clothed. I don't think much about this till later but that was odd for Liliana to stay clothed. She's got a slight baby pooch so she may not want to be naked with Tana the slim goddess right beside her. Who knows? It's ok because Liliana is the BBBJ specialist (fully clothed) as Tana is the optics dancing now fully naked above me.

Eventually Tana fully engages for the sex part and it's quite great. She is soooo fucking beautiful and if you like slim, her body is a perfect ten. Looking at her eyes and smile while you fuck her in mish is legendary. And rare excellent pussy feel in all three positions did lazy dog rather than traditional. Oh and she added in some RCG and ACG for variety. In the end a BJHJ combo finish with Liliana strong on BLS (first of the week!) and Tana alternately kissing me deeply and just looking at me super sexy, enjoying me enjoying Lilianas excellent BBBJ (OWO). OMG did I say Tana was beautiful? That girl is dynamite.

A good 20 minute cuddle in a Liliana, Steve, Tana sandwich after climax. Sweet girls and 4 hours in total. I was completely and deeply satisfied.

And so that concludes the London adventures of Steve. I came expecting to fuck one girl meaningfully and repeatedly the entire week. Instead I partied with random girls and had meaningless sex over and over again. There are worse things!

PS. I know there are always concerns about being robbed or scammed and we should be vigilant. But I accidentally left and open envelope with over $2000 in various currencies on the bedside table while I was showering afterwards. They didnt touch a penny. Sweethearts.

Ailton
11-20-20, 15:35
For example, it takes a ton of time to find a gem in SF (Low Success) especially given the SD competition and the many WGs on there, but pretty easy to find a nice SB in Portland and Las Vegas (High Success).How would you rate LA in terms of success rate? This has piqued my interest: a large metropolis with a high amount of pros means a decline in the success rate of scoring a gem and thus considerable more effort. This however does not apply to Vegas even though it should be full of pros. I wonder how LA compares in all of this.

Oneminuteboy
11-20-20, 17:10
Your numbers are great! Thank you for that addition. Am I right to assume that these numbers should apply to the whole of NL?

It differs. I've talked and met from the major cities. But also from the smaller towns. The more serious ones will sit around this number.

The less serious ones or gold diggers will be far above it.

Pessimist
11-20-20, 17:29
That could work if it's not so specific.

San Francisco a very good example. It kind of hit me like a V8 (if one knows this old commercial). Many affluent tech guys with laboring social skills being hustled by more worldly SBs. Of course the more you climb the money ladder, the more you would expect SBs to be motivated.I always wondered why many of the hottest girls from boonies in Nebraska, or Mississippi or Idaho etc would not move to San Fran to find a rich, nerdy dude as opposed to going to LA in search of a movie career that never happens and half of them end up in porn or into some hourly wage waitress gigs. The bay area is such a good pond to catch rich, nerdy, easy fish if you are a cute 22 year old blonde LOL.

DramaFree11
11-20-20, 19:11
Not sure I ever posted this experience. I cut out all the Diva girls and civvy dates to stay on topic. Here's the SA part.

For my final night I've decided even tho I love going dancing with Pam and having sex with an escort before or after, I really want the full package where the dancing LEADS TO the bedroom. So I start hitting Seeking Arrangement hard, actually starting in the Uber after I leave Pam. Right after I arrive at my hotel that night I hit upon a Colombian hottie but I don't hear back till she texts me back around 3 am.

I know this is a super risky move going to SA since it's hit or miss, and it could be a fail at the dinner table or in the room but I want to take the risk to have the reward of a blowout final night. And (spoiler alert!) a blowout it is.

So I explore all the options (limited) but manage to engage Tana (the Colombiana) in a dialogue that leads to pay dirt. She agrees to see me for 350 for 4-5 hrs of unrushed fun. Dinner dancing and room time. This seems high based on my SA experience to date, but my alternative had been Noleta at straight up Diva pricing of 450 for what would have to be a rushed 3 hours (or 600 for 4 hours yikes!) so I am Ok with her price.

Well the price turns out to be 1/2 off because she says it's her friends birthday and can she come too? At first I think she is trying to upsell me to 700 but she confirms no price change. A two for one deal. Two girls for four hours for 350 . Now THATS a deal (in London) OK baby, it's on!..Wow, you had an good experience with Colombians, I can not say the same. When I find out they are Colombian, in MTY I usually run for the hills now. They usually think they are way hotter then what they actually are and there attitudes, demands are worse. Love the Mexican girls, no more Colombians for me.

DramaFree11
11-20-20, 19:32
Arrive late Thursday after major drama at the border, I learned a valuable lesson, checks count as cash, I will save the details for another day. I meet a new girl from SA, we have a couple drinks goes well she is a solid 6. 5-7, I try to get her to go up to the room after 30 minutes she say no, one more drink. After 90 minutes she wants to go, but one of my regular is on the way the is 7-7.5, so I tell her we can meet in the morning. She shows up 10:30 am, one hour of sex, she total freak. Hopefully we are having a threesome, we will see. The regular shows up at 10:30, great night, we have 2 sessions.

The trip off to a good start more details to follow.

Nounce
11-21-20, 01:17
Not directly related to this thread, I got a kill two birds with one stone idea and now I have a Portuguese tutor who is a model from Brazil. She is basically a teenager so I am just enjoying the lessons and the view, nothing sexual going on and I don't plan to ruin it. With makeup on, she is a 10 easy but I meet her without makeup, in street or gym clothes she is still beautiful but in a different way. LOL. I think she has a lot of free time before her next assignment and that is why she became my tutor. I don't want to write too much right now as it is still ongoing. Her fee for the lesson is reasonable. She is still able to move between countries currently so I think she must be in demand to be able to do that, probably make significant amount of money too but I just treat her like a normal person and never ask her anything outside the scope of the lesson. Everything I know about her is thru the lesson when she try to teach me the language, like how to introduce oneself. I basically think she is out of my league. Haha.

Midwestern
11-21-20, 14:04
Not directly related to this thread, I got a kill two birds with one stone idea and now I have a Portuguese tutor who is a model from Brazil. She is basically a teenager so I am just enjoying the lessons and the view, nothing sexual going on and I don't plan to ruin it. With makeup on, she is a 10 easy but I meet her without makeup, in street or gym clothes she is still beautiful but in a different way. LOL. I think she has a lot of free time before her next assignment and that is why she became my tutor. I don't want to write too much right now as it is still ongoing. Her fee for the lesson is reasonable. She is still able to move between countries currently so I think she must be in demand to be able to do that, probably make significant amount of money too but I just treat her like a normal person and never ask her anything outside the scope of the lesson. Everything I know about her is thru the lesson when she try to teach me the language, like how to introduce oneself. I basically think she is out of my league. Haha.If good tutors are plentiful, then I suggest you give her a nice gift next time, just to show your appreciation. But the gift also signals your willingness to spoil her. Then, later that night, text her that you like her, and see what happens. If she says she likes you too, then you're golden. If not, then kill the sting with some whisky and move on. I think you have everything to gain and nothing to lose, but only if good tutors are plentiful. Good luck.

Midwestern
11-21-20, 14:06
How would you rate LA in terms of success rate? This has piqued my interest: a large metropolis with a high amount of pros means a decline in the success rate of scoring a gem and thus considerable more effort. This however does not apply to Vegas even though it should be full of pros. I wonder how LA compares in all of this.I hate LA, so I haven't been there in years. So, I have no idea. Sorry, man.

Midwestern
11-21-20, 14:27
That could work if it's not so specific.

San Francisco a very good example. It kind of hit me like a V8 (if one knows this old commercial). Many affluent tech guys with laboring social skills being hustled by more worldly SBs. Of course the more you climb the money ladder, the more you would expect SBs to be motivated.


I always wondered why many of the hottest girls from boonies in Nebraska, or Mississippi or Idaho etc would not move to San Fran to find a rich, nerdy dude as opposed to going to LA in search of a movie career that never happens and half of them end up in porn or into some hourly wage waitress gigs. The bay area is such a good pond to catch rich, nerdy, easy fish if you are a cute 22 year old blonde LOL.

I know you guys will say that I am generalizing, but SF is my second home (even right now), and so I know the SA market in SF very, very well. I met almost 100 SBs in SF in person. Literally. I am not saying that I bagged them. I only hooked up with around 20. So, most were meet and greets. But I also chatted with hundreds more. Literally. And one common theme that arose from all of these chats and meetings is that the suddenly rich 25 year old tech nerd in SF is an absolute raging asshole to women. They treat women like objects that they feel automatically feel entitled to, and they think hot women just comes with their new found wealth. Many of the women told me they felt these nerds were seeking revenge for the many years that they got bullied by jocks, and got laughed at by girls. Like they have some kind of unhinged anger within them, and they are letting it out now. And so they treat SBs like crap, and the move on to the next SB and treat them like crap. In addition, I have also talked to many pros in SF too about the tech nerds. And they say that tech nerds are the worst because they are the biggest assholes and treat them the worst.

Here's another take, from the tech nerds' side. I know them very well. I work with them. I am friends with many, many of them. They are so sweet, so innocent, and so socially awkward. But yet, they have no respect for women. I don't know how many tech nerds have told me that the only woman they respect is their mom. Again, you will say this is a generalization. But consider the fact that ratio of male tech nerds to women tech nerds is probably over 100 to 1. The ratio of excellent male engineers to excellent female engineers is probably over 1000 to 1. Pretty much every male tech nerd that I know has told me that the one or two girls in their engineering or computer science class in college was, by far, the dumbest person in class. So, how can these tech nerds NOT look down on women? These tech nerds just pretty much think women exists as prizes for their pleasure and for their fun and to serve them, if they can succeed.

Interesting, right? I too was kind of surprised by this. So, let's not underestimate those nerds. I love these nerds, but I would NEVER want my sister or daughter to marry one. They are not Mark Zuckerberg. And I think that Zuckerberg will someday become a pussy hound too.

DramaFree11
11-21-20, 14:39
I hate LA, so I haven't been there in years. So, I have no idea. Sorry, man.Me too, one of the most over rated cities in the world. If I want to deal with bad attitudes and shitty service, I will go back to Houston, I can at least be paid a lot of money for all the extra stress and drama.

WyattEarp
11-21-20, 16:21
Interesting, right? I too was kind of surprised by this. So, let's not underestimate those nerds. I love these nerds, but I would NEVER want my sister or daughter to marry one. They are not Mark Zuckerberg. And I think that Zuckerberg will someday become a pussy hound too.Very interesting post. We do know Mark Zuckerberg was a jerk to women. Let's face it. He's not exactly charming and handsome even with tens of billions.

AmericanPi
11-21-20, 17:02
Not sure I ever posted this experience. I cut out all the Diva girls and civvy dates to stay on topic. Here's the SA part.

For my final night I've decided even tho I love going dancing with Pam and having sex with an escort before or after, I really want the full package where the dancing LEADS TO the bedroom. So I start hitting Seeking Arrangement hard, actually starting in the Uber after I leave Pam. Right after I arrive at my hotel that night I hit upon a Colombian hottie but I don't hear back till she texts me back around 3 am......Jeez, man, the only bad part about an experience like that is you might have to spend the rest of your life chasing it again. How in the hell do you top or match that?

AmericanPi
11-21-20, 17:05
I hate LA, so I haven't been there in years. So, I have no idea. Sorry, man.With all respect, I've found that people who hate LA don't really know LA. Don't get me wrong. I don't love LA, and I live here. It's expensive and huge. But there really is something for everyone on account of its size. Beach cities, mountain communities, multiple urban centers, multiple suburbs, hipster areas, many ethnic areas, gay areas, ghettos of various ethnicity, posh areas of different stripes, college areas, and on and on. If someone hates LA, they probably are thinking of one type of LA, and it's large enough that there are really many LA's.

Pessimist
11-21-20, 21:53
I know you guys will say that I am generalizing, but SF is my second home (even right now), and so I know the SA market in SF very, very well. I met almost 100 SBs in SF in person. Literally. I am not saying that I bagged them. I only hooked up with around 20. So, most were meet and greets. But I also chatted with hundreds more. Literally. And one common theme that arose from all of these chats and meetings is that the suddenly rich 25 year old tech nerd in SF is an absolute raging asshole to women. They treat women like objects that they feel automatically feel entitled to, and they think hot women just comes with their new found wealth. Many of the women told me they felt these nerds were seeking revenge for the many years that they got bullied by jocks, and got laughed at by girls. Like they have some kind of unhinged anger within them, and they are letting it out now. And so they treat SBs like crap, and the move on to the next SB and treat them like crap. In addition, I have also talked to many pros in SF too about the tech nerds. And they say that tech nerds are the worst because they are the biggest assholes and treat them the worst.

Here's another take, from the tech nerds' side. I know them very well. I work with them. I am friends with many, many of them. They are so sweet, so innocent, and so socially awkward. But yet, they have no respect for women. I don't know how many tech nerds have told me that the only woman they respect is their mom. Again, you will say this is a generalization. But consider the fact that ratio of male tech nerds to women tech nerds is probably over 100 to 1. The ratio of excellent male engineers to excellent female engineers is probably over 1000 to 1. Pretty much every male tech nerd that I know has told me that the one or two girls in their engineering or computer science class in college was, by far, the dumbest person in class. So, how can these tech nerds NOT look down on women? These tech nerds just pretty much think women exists as prizes for their pleasure and for their fun and to serve them, if they can succeed.

Interesting, right? I too was kind of surprised by this. So, let's not underestimate those nerds. I love these nerds, but I would NEVER want my sister or daughter to marry one. They are not Mark Zuckerberg. And I think that Zuckerberg will someday become a pussy hound too.Haha, that is funny LOL. Well, you have a point MW but let's be fair. Not all of them are the same. I worked in the Valley at the beginning of my career and some of them are still friends after more than 15 years. Super nice and smart, many are married now but yes, many are also unattached. BTW, not everyone became super wealthy. Many settled into regular life, long commutes, paying for houses that keep appreciating every single year no matter what. You are right about the gender ratio but even when I worked there, it was not as terrible as 100 to 1, more like 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 in my experience (sales departments are 50/50). Obviously, I would not know how any of these guys behaved w / SBs, although I can believe some of them seem awkward.

Midwestern
11-22-20, 00:43
I did not say that LA is bad. I just said that I hated it. I would never say that a place is bad because that would be a gross simplification. I only said that I hated LA to provide context in my reply to another poster. I have no doubts that LA is a great city because so many people voluntarily live there and move there and stay there. So, I hope no one got offended.

Midwestern
11-22-20, 01:22
Haha, that is funny LOL. Well, you have a point MW but let's be fair. Not all of them are the same. I worked in the Valley at the beginning of my career and some of them are still friends after more than 15 years. Super nice and smart, many are married now but yes, many are also unattached. BTW, not everyone became super wealthy. Many settled into regular life, long commutes, paying for houses that keep appreciating every single year no matter what. You are right about the gender ratio but even when I worked there, it was not as terrible as 100 to 1, more like 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 in my experience (sales departments are 50/50). Obviously, I would not know how any of these guys behaved w / SBs, although I can believe some of them seem awkward.Pessimist, when many of us say stuff like "SBs are. " or "tech nerds are. ", we do not mean that it literally applies 100% of the time. We are just using hyperbole, man. I do not think that anyone thinks that anything we say applies to literally everyone and every case, but you keep pointing this out over and over again. It is just hyperbole, man. And it is an accepted form of speech that even the strictest grammarians and linguist and English scholars also accept as being okay. Also, another thing is that I am something of an applied statistician. In my line of work, if we can reliably find that "X" is so and so most of the time, then we call this a "generalized fact. " So, I guess I am guilty of carrying this over to my normal conversations. I say stuff like "everyone likes this restaurant" when I know that only my 5 friends like this restaurant, and according to the online reviews that only 97% of people like this restaurant. My statement that everyone likes this restaurant is both a hyperbole and a generalized fact, but it should not be taken literally.

And when we are talking about tech nerds, I assumed engineers and programmers. The ratio is around 100 to 1. At the firm that I work for in SF, in its history, it has had hundreds of male engineers and male programmers, and it has never had a female engineer or female programmer. Not a single one. When I lived in Beijing, when Google was still there, I was friends with one of the top execs. I went to some of their company events and parties. I think I saw two female engineers / programmers, out of several hundred engineers / programmers. And even then, one of the female engineers got reassigned because she was not a 10 x programmer like the males. This is why male tech nerds look down on women, and why they often treat women like crap in their dating relationships. And I never said that they all became super wealth, and I agree that most of them are super smart and very nice. In fact, I like tech nerds and I think most of them like me too. All that I was saying is that based on my convos with SBs and pros and even with non SBs and non-pros, in SF, they were nearly unanimous that rich tech nerds were a nightmare to date because these guys treated women like crap. Are there exceptions? Of course.

Steve 9696
11-22-20, 03:06
Pessimist, when many of us say stuff like "SBs are. " or "tech nerds are. ", we do not mean that it literally applies 100% of the time. We are just using hyperbole, man. I do not think that anyone thinks that anything we say applies to literally everyone and every case, but you keep pointing this out over and over again. It is just hyperbole, man. And it is an accepted form of speech that even the strictest grammarians and linguist and English scholars also accept as being okay. Also, another thing is that I am something of an applied statistician. In my line of work, if we can reliably find that "X" is so and so most of the time, then we call this a "generalized fact. " So, I guess I am guilty of carrying this over to my normal conversations. I say stuff like "everyone likes this restaurant" when I know that only my 5 friends like this restaurant, and according to the online reviews that only 97% of people like this restaurant. My statement that everyone likes this restaurant is both a hyperbole and a generalized fact, but it should not be taken literally.

And when we are talking about tech nerds, I assumed engineers and programmers. The ratio is around 100 to 1. At the firm that I work for in SF, in its history, it has had hundreds of male engineers and male programmers, and it has never had a female engineer or female programmer. Not a single one. When I lived in Beijing, when Google was still there, I was friends with one of the top execs. I went to some of their company events and parties. I think I saw two female engineers / programmers, out of several hundred engineers / programmers. And even then, one of the female engineers got reassigned because she was not a 10 x programmer like the males. This is why male tech nerds look down on women, and why they often treat women like crap in their dating relationships. And I never said that they all became super wealth, and I agree that most of them are super smart and very nice. In fact, I like tech nerds and I think most of them like me too. All that I was saying is that based on my convos with SBs and pros and even with non SBs and non-pros, in SF, they were nearly unanimous that rich tech nerds were a nightmare to date because these guys treated women like crap. Are there exceptions? Of course.I will hop on the "I hate LA" train. I'm not talking Newport Beach or Malibu or all that sexy stuff. I'm talking core LA with more strip malls per mile than anywhere on earth. It's just 30 miles of crappy little strip malls at 2 miles per hour. Ridiculous traffic. Basically nothing to like. Least favorite city in the USA.

The SA scene is OK IMO. Had one beautiful Latina with dinner at Penthouse in Malibu. My second SA ever and I let her get away with cold feet over me being married. Could have totally closed the deal if I knew what I know now. Was able to quickly book replacements at $300 for a slightly chubby BBBJ queen. And $400 for a super cute mixed race hottie. Literally like booking them for later that night while having dinner with colleagues. LOL.

On the tech nerds things I generalize more as follows:

Men in their twenties are like children and treat women like objects.

Men who are young and have lots of money either inherited it (lazy) or earned it by working too hard (too driven).

And this is why us old dudes are awesome! We have learned to appreciate women and we have money because we earned it over time.

Least that's my take!

Pessimist
11-22-20, 03:43
The thing I hate about LA is the sprawl. I was in Santa Monica for a brief time and when you drove to Vegas it would take nearly two hours just to get to HWY15. It is just endless. However, as far as SBs go, perhaps you should your search extend beyond LA, Malibu, Newport beach etc and look into the inland empire. I suspect many of the potential SBs are Latino and Black and if you are OK with that, you might get good deals. I personally don't mind young Latinas, have had a few of those as SBs. You might get better deals than in LA, western suburbs, or the beach towns. Just a thought.

AmericanPi
11-22-20, 19:24
Let me say two things in response to your two points, which I very much agree with.

I have made a career out of something as simple as pointing out the difference between population distributions and the binary way most people think the world works. Basic social science. Agree with you.

And, not to get too political, but the dynamic you are referring to in tech firms is so obnoxious. Back to population distributions, men will reliably occupy the upper end of the bell curve where the top programmers reside (say, google engineers). That is not in any a judgment of women. It's a reliably produced fact that goes down to proclivities by gender. (That's not to say every top engineer is a male, a point you will understand well). But in our world, today, to notice that fact is to be accused of misogyny. We are told the shortage of women in tech is evidence of male privilege, and we ought to repent for that. Meanwhile, most of us who understand social science fundamentals quietly roll our eyes and just try to stay out of trouble with HR.

Pessimist
11-22-20, 20:27
Pessimist, when many of us say stuff like "SBs are. " or "tech nerds are. ", we do not mean that it literally applies 100% of the time. We are just using hyperbole, man. I do not think that anyone thinks that anything we say applies to literally everyone and every case, but you keep pointing this out over and over again. It is just hyperbole, man. And it is an accepted form of speech that even the strictest grammarians and linguist and English scholars also accept as being okay. Also, another thing is that I am something of an applied statistician. In my line of work, if we can reliably find that "X" is so and so most of the time, then we call this a "generalized fact. " So, I guess I am guilty of carrying this over to my normal conversations. I say stuff like "everyone likes this restaurant" when I know that only my 5 friends like this restaurant, and according to the online reviews that only 97% of people like this restaurant. My statement that everyone likes this restaurant is both a hyperbole and a generalized fact, but it should not be taken literally.

And when we are talking about tech nerds, I assumed engineers and programmers. The ratio is around 100 to 1. At the firm that I work for in SF, in its history, it has had hundreds of male engineers and male programmers, and it has never had a female engineer or female programmer. Not a single one. When I lived in Beijing, when Google was still there, I was friends with one of the top execs. I went to some of their company events and parties. I think I saw two female engineers / programmers, out of several hundred engineers / programmers. And even then, one of the female engineers got reassigned because she was not a 10 x programmer like the males. This is why male tech nerds look down on women, and why they often treat women like crap in their dating relationships. And I never said that they all became super wealth, and I agree that most of them are super smart and very nice. In fact, I like tech nerds and I think most of them like me too. All that I was saying is that based on my convos with SBs and pros and even with non SBs and non-pros, in SF, they were nearly unanimous that rich tech nerds were a nightmare to date because these guys treated women like crap. Are there exceptions? Of course.That is fine; if you say we should look past hyperbole and generalizations, I am quite OK with it. My experience is a little different from yours, that's all. Even 15+ years ago, when I worked at tech firms in the valley there were more than 1 or 2 women per men. In my experience, at that time it was more like 20%. In sales, which is just as important as engineering for software companies, the ratio was close to 40%. Sales people at the SW firms I worked at got paid tremendous amounts; with a reasonable quota and success in meeting it, $400 K was easily doable. Also, most of those people had stable family life and just lived normal boring lives. As I said, the main concern for 90% of the people was work, stock options, commute and quality of life, buying a reasonably priced house. Anyway, I don't think we are disagreeing; probably saying the same thing in a different way. I don't have any experience in China, so I will defer to you on that side. Cheers.

Midwestern
11-23-20, 06:41
I need advice. I have 2 SBs. One is on a $1200 monthly allowance. Another is on a $500 monthly allowance (but she is hinting of going to PPM). However, I haven't seen either recently. The first one went back home to tend to some personal matters. I haven't seen her in almost 2 weeks. The other one lives just outside of Shanghai, but she recently accepted a full time job. I haven't seen her in 3 weeks. I guess with the latter, I will just convert her to PPM. However, what should I do with the former? I am thinking about delaying her next monthly installment payment date, moving it from the last week of the month to the first or second week of next month, and permanently keeping it this way. Am I being cheap and will she call me out on it? Or, should I just bite the bullet and pay her the regular monthly rate, even though I barely saw her this month? I guess this is another downside the monthly arrangement. Maybe monthly arrangements never last long. Anyone have a monthly arrangement that lasted for many months, like at least 6 months? TIA.


men will reliably occupy the upper end of the bell curve where the top programmers reside (say, google engineers). That is not in any a judgment of women. It's a reliably produced fact that goes down to proclivities by gender. (That's not to say every top engineer is a male, a point you will understand well). But in our world, today, to notice that fact is to be accused of misogyny. We are told the shortage of women in tech is evidence of male privilege, and we ought to repent for that. Meanwhile, most of us who understand social science fundamentals quietly roll our eyes and just try to stay out of trouble with HR.Yep, we see eye to eye on this.


That is fine; if you say we should look past hyperbole and generalizations, I am quite OK with it. My experience is a little different from yours, that's all. Even 15+ years ago, when I worked at tech firms in the valley there were more than 1 or 2 women per men. In my experience, at that time it was more like 20%. In sales, which is just as important as engineering for software companies, the ratio was close to 40%. Sales people at the SW firms I worked at got paid tremendous amounts; with a reasonable quota and success in meeting it, $400 K was easily doable. Also, most of those people had stable family life and just lived normal boring lives. As I said, the main concern for 90% of the people was work, stock options, commute and quality of life, buying a reasonably priced house. Anyway, I don't think we are disagreeing; probably saying the same thing in a different way. I don't have any experience in China, so I will defer to you on that side. Cheers.Sounds good. I actually appreciate the precision with which your express your opinions. But when everyone else is making huge generalizations, maybe you can let it go sometimes, hahahaha. Thanks for hanging out with us in this thread.

BrizLad
11-23-20, 11:28
I need advice. I have 2 SBs. One is on a $1200 monthly allowance. Another is on a $500 monthly allowance (but she is hinting of going to PPM). However, I haven't seen either recently. The first one went back home to tend to some personal matters. I haven't seen her in almost 2 weeks.For this one I would be saying "I'll give you the cash when I see you back here".

DramaFree11
11-23-20, 13:07
I need advice. I have 2 SBs. One is on a $1200 monthly allowance. Another is on a $500 monthly allowance (but she is hinting of going to PPM). However, I haven't seen either recently. The first one went back home to tend to some personal matters. I haven't seen her in almost 2 weeks. The other one lives just outside of Shanghai, but she recently accepted a full time job. I haven't seen her in 3 weeks. I guess with the latter, I will just convert her to PPM. However, what should I do with the former? I am thinking about delaying her next monthly installment payment date, moving it from the last week of the month to the first or second week of next month, and permanently keeping it this way. Am I being cheap and will she call me out on it? Or, should I just bite the bullet and pay her the regular monthly rate, even though I barely saw her this month? I guess this is another downside the monthly arrangement. Maybe monthly arrangements never last long. Anyone have a monthly arrangement that lasted for many months, like at least 6 months? TIA.

Yep, we see eye to eye on this.

Sounds good. I actually appreciate the precision with which your express your opinions. But when everyone else is making huge generalizations, maybe you can let it go sometimes, hahahaha. Thanks for hanging out with us in this thread.This is why I do not do monthly arrangements, this always happens. Stick with PPM, maybe at the 3-6 month period I would might be willing to change my mind, but no need to change something that is working. Keep up the great posts.

Sky Ryder
11-23-20, 13:12
I need advice. I have 2 SBs. One is on a $1200 monthly allowance. Another is on a $500 monthly allowance (but she is hinting of going to PPM). However, I haven't seen either recently. The first one went back home to tend to some personal matters. I haven't seen her in almost 2 weeks. The other one lives just outside of Shanghai, but she recently accepted a full time job. I haven't seen her in 3 weeks. I guess with the latter, I will just convert her to PPM. However, what should I do with the former? I am thinking about delaying her next monthly installment payment date, moving it from the last week of the month to the first or second week of next month, and permanently keeping it this way. Am I being cheap and will she call me out on it? Or, should I just bite the bullet and pay her the regular monthly rate, even though I barely saw her this month? .First, I would just tell the second one that PPM will work for you, if I had to guess, she is stable now and is looking for a way to get out of the "have to see you", and just call when she finds out the job doesn't quite meet her financial needs. This is her "saving face" and telling herself she is not really a "xiao san".

For the other one, if you could get paid for doing nothing, even for a few months with no real consequences, what would you do? If she really is at home her expenses have gone WAY down and she doesn't need access to cash anymore and I suspect that finding a way to live up to her end of the bargain from home is problematic. I have some SA experience in Asia, including China, with monthly arrangements and it was ALL bad financially. The sex was really good, especially when she wanted me to pay her for the two months, one she didn't show at all and the one she promised would be different. That was a great weekend, up until she realized as far as I was concerned she had already been paid for the weekend.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, because I had feelings for this girl, but I wouldn't give her a single red Mao, until I could see the "baby batter" dripping from her anal orifice. But that's just me.

Steve 9696
11-24-20, 01:32
I wish I had some good advice, had similar problem. Layla and I were regular and went monthly. Then she went to Vegas for two weeks and I made it clear that I had "advanced" her money but we needed to settle up. She acknowledged this but when the rubber meets the road the only way to get her back out was forgive the "debt" and start going PPM to entice her back to the game.

I know this sounds lame but she's the only game in town. And honestly she was only charging $200 a meet but coulda charged $300. At least that's how I've rationalized it.

My last date (not Layla) was just a meet and greet but the kissing was spectacular. If it moves to the next level (looks like it will) she may displace Layla, because Layla isn't much on kissing and her BJ is marginal. I've found girls that love to kiss love to give head. So very hopeful.

DramaFree11
11-27-20, 19:01
So, I am killing in MTY, I usually pay between $150-200, but that is for multiple hours and sessions. Couple funny stories 1. Sunday I agree to meet a girl, for breakfast or coffee. She is cute, but short, totally dressed up. All Gucci out. She wants to go to breakfast I say let's just go to Starbucks, I did not want to watch her eat eggs then have sex, not my thing. She is 6, even all dressed up. We get there she proceeds to wiping down have the store with disinfected. She calms down. Keeps talking about eggs. Obvious she was starting to like me, but I was on the fence, $150 was normally what I would pay for a 6, but I said $200. She had other ideas gifts, no sex, Kiev style. So, I had another meeting scheduled with another girl, I told her I had to go, she tries to get me to go into a store, but I said no. Afterwards I get this text to meet her to buy a gift. Then I send the text about I am only interested in sex. She claims that it is normal to go to dinner and buy gifts, sex come later. I said no way.

Second girl, yesterday arrive very short, I would pay $150 tops, if that. She is cute, but I could probably have that type of girl for free. Anyway she tries to go to a nice Rest. , but I said no, we go to PF Changs, she is all over the map, but it was Thanksgiving so I will play along. Finally the topic come up about money. I say $150, she come back at $350, I politely say no way, it will never happen. She also tells me that guys in Mexico are paying just to have dinner with girls, I laugh and say it is very rare, if at all. Anyway I block her crazy ass. $350 in MTY would be like $600 in the states. She is barely a 6, if that.

I think girls that are seeking gifts are much more high maintenance, but this is my experience.

Many great stories to come over the last 3 trips. Monday was back to back Anal with 2 different girls! With a real Model and another one of my regulars, she is very cute, some would rate here between 6.5-7.5, she is a little thick for me, but not fat, the Colombian guys would love here, both are 2 of the sweeties girls you will ever meet. Love MTY and SA.

DramaFree11
11-28-20, 05:54
On SA you have to take the good with the bad. I never like to turn girls away, but I have my limits. First girl show up in Sweat Suite, well you better be smoking hot to pull that off. Bad news she was about 30 pounds overweight I said Hello, and goodbye. No Uber money. Second girls show up 1 hour late, I am cool with 30 minutes, but then her picture does not match, she is 5'1/. I gave Uber money and said goodbye, plus she want $200, hell no! $100 tops, I need to face time.

Good news the 3 Road girls shows up 5'8" smoking hot. We go have dinner, no money exchange, because she is on her period, but great time, drinks and dinner. We to agree to meet Monday evening. Smoking hot, totally humble.

Steve 9696
11-28-20, 19:14
Well my recent second date with Sarah proves two things for certain:

1. The guys that say all SA girls are hookers are full of shit. We already knew this but man did Sarah make it obvious that these fresh newbies can be a blast.

2. What you might give up a bit on optics is paid back double in the bedroom. A girl who is hungry for cock is a girl that is worth your time.

Sarah was brand new to SA. Basically did it on a lark coming off a failed LTR. She was super shy about meeting up two weeks ago. I got her to go by saying I guarantee we will stop at a kiss. Nothing more. Well we had that kiss and it was super passionate. I'm convinced that without it we would not have had a second date. I might have convinced myself not to follow up with her (she's overweight) and she would likely have had second thoughts.

Instead we were both fired up for date 2 which was the most passionate sex I've had in years! OMG. Her sexual neediness and appetite was such a turn on! And sooooo fun to show a girl who has had boring vanilla sex with just a couple guys what the real deal can be like. She's never had her gspot fingered. Never done 69. Never done CIM.

We corrected all those errors and wow it was really something. A sloppy wet whirlwind of BJ, kissing, FIV, mish, cowgirl, DATY and more. Two rounds with satisfying climax in mish and CIM round two. Wow. Will repeat.

Elvis 2008
11-28-20, 20:58
Well my recent second date with Sarah proves two things for certain:

1. The guys that say all SA girls are hookers are full of shit. We already knew this but man did Sarah make it obvious that these fresh newbies can be a blast. Yes, this all SA women are hookers claim is the epitome of sour grapes. You have cheap assholes who do not want to stick $100 a month into the coffers of SA management. Instead of being honest, they then go off and say their being cheap is justified because all the women are working girls, and they can get them more cheaply.

I think all women but especially those without much money are hookers to some extent. That joke about would you have sex with me for a million dollars comes to mind.

In my area in the USA, there are 400 hookers available on P411 and there are 10,000+ women on seeking within 25 miles of my house. What that tells me is that very few women want to be seen as hookers who will give it up for any guy with money, but there are tons of women willing to give up with the right guy for money. Getting a SA girl into bed in some but not all cases is a function not just of money but of game.


Instead we were both fired up for date 2 which was the most passionate sex I've had in years! OMG. Her sexual neediness and appetite was such a turn on! And sooooo fun to show a girl who has had boring vanilla sex with just a couple guys what the real deal can be like. She's never had her gspot fingered. Never done 69. Never done CIM.I am headed to Colombia next week. I will be with three women there that tell me that they have not been with other men, and they act like they have not been with other men.

I am also meeting new ones. I wanted to dip in and not settle for what I had and am going to meet two other women, both models, and one is a model and actress. Why are they on SA? Both have seen their work go to nothing.

I got to talking openly with one. She told me that she has not had sex in a year and got out of a relationship two years ago.

With Covid, the best women are available but they are not going to be alone for long. I have not been to Mexico City since Colombia opened up, but the best looking one I met there is in the pictures below. This was in her bio on SA:

Miss Teen Venezuela World Star Model.

Miss Venezuela Caribbean international.

Modelo en la fashion week cartagena Colombia.

Actriz principal obra de teatro "PLAN be" - Venezuela.

Modelo e imagen de diversas marcas Rolex-World Golf Championships (Mexico), Nike (Chile), Forever21 (Panama), Chilevision (Chile), CMB (consejo mundial de boxeo), Porsche (Panama), F1 (Gran premio de Mexico 2017) entre muchas otras.

She had just gotten out of a seven year relationship. She also was just out of work due to Covid. These two events are what made her become available on SA.

You know the term Instagram influencer? I have seen celebrities get huge numbers of views and likes, but she has 200,000 followers and every video she does has tens of thousands of likes. I told her that she could increase her numbers by buying followers with money and she would not have it.

Anyway, I meet her. Name is Gaby. Gaby is even prettier in real life than her pictures. Eventually, we get it on, and she amazingly is good in bed. I knew that if I did not give this woman a ton of support and lock her down, I would lose her. I might not in a city with as many beauties as Bogota or Sao Paulo, but she was top 0.01% in Mexico City, and Mexico City has a lot more money than other cities. She was a 10 in anyone's book.

She got better about responding to my texts. Then she just stopped. Finally she told me that she met someone. I saw from her Instagram videos that she hooked up with a guy who moved her into his place, and she was living it up on the beach in Cozumel. Given that she is Venezuelan and having to totally support her family, I can only be happy for her, and she looks happy.

As for why I did not lock her down, the truth is that I have women who are better lovers and who are close to her in looks. I have a lawyer in Mexico City, who may not be quite as pretty, but I found to be even more striking. In Colombia, I have one beauty queen winner and had one a few months ago. The best woman I have is the best lover I have had in decades and while she may not be a 10 in looks, she is a 10 in almost every other way and is determined to ask for as little money as possible. She calls or texts me every night. I could ask her for a kidney and she would probably give it to me.

One of the parts people do not get is loyalty. Gaby was a straight shooter and honest. If I had supported her and officially cemented our relationship, helped her meet her financial needs, and made her my novia, she would not have looked at another guy. How do I know that? I could just tell. Also, when I asked to hang out with her when I came back to Mexico City, she said no she is in a relationship now.

There is no way that you get that kind of loyalty from a hooker, no fucking way. As pretty as Gaby is, she is an even better person. Like the best women, she is not just lying on her back making money. She just needed some help in these tough times.

DramaFree11
11-29-20, 03:36
Yes, this all SA women are hookers claim is the epitome of sour grapes. You have cheap assholes who do not want to stick $100 a month into the coffers of SA management. Instead of being honest, they then go off and say their being cheap is justified because all the women are working girls, and they can get them more cheaply.

I think all women but especially those without much money are hookers to some extent. That joke about would you have sex with me for a million dollars comes to mind.

In my area in the USA, there are 400 hookers available on P411 and there are 10,000+ women on seeking within 25 miles of my house. What that tells me is that very few women want to be seen as hookers who will give it up for any guy with money, but there are tons of women willing to give up with the right guy for money. Getting a SA girl into bed in some but not all cases is a function not just of money but of game.

I am headed to Colombia next week. I will be with three women there that tell me that they have not been with other men, and they act like they have not been with other men.

I am also meeting new ones. I wanted to dip in and not settle for what I had and am going to meet two other women, both models, and one is a model and actress. Why are they on SA? Both have seen their work go to nothing.Awesome post. The loyalty part, in Latin America and Europe is way different, then American Chicks. The girls I am meeting in MTY are just incredible inside and out. So different then American women.

Honestly I think we are all prostitutes, some get paid more, other less. Some use different word, but everything always boils down to money. I honestly think SA is more honest, in some ways then traditional Relationships, but that is just me.

I am glad you are having good luck in Colombia, I was not a fan at all of MDE, so I happy that you are having success there.

DramaFree11
11-29-20, 03:53
Saturday, I meet with a regular from SA, in the morning great session. She just got New Tits, looks amazing, but she is still in pain. Great session. My next meeting cancelled. 3rd meeting, shows up, she is okay, but not my type, but I wanted to meet her. One of her first question was do I believe in God. I say, yes, common in Mexico to be asked this question. But it becomes pretty apparent she is looking for a relationship. We have some small talk, nice, but again not my type even for free. Then she claims that she thinks SA is a site for older guys seeking traditional relationships with younger women. I tell her the truth about the site and I looking for a sexual arrangement. I guess she thought she could charm me. We were about 90 minutes in and I asked for the check, she about started crying, I felt terrible, but I told her we were just too different. I felt bad, but I had another meeting.

Missed the text confirming the next meeting, then 4th meeting, I was stood up at the Restaurant. You have to take the good, with the bad on SA. I was on serious hot streak, but reality can bite you in the Ass. I think I need to Focus more on my model / slash amateur porn star, she is amazing, I real do not want to screw it up.

Also, I definitely need to either do Facetime or Viedeo Chat moving forward. I wasted a lot of time this week.

Midwestern
11-29-20, 13:20
SB#1 went back to her hometown to take care of some things. We were texting every day, but one day, I was busy and I didn't check my cell phone all afternoon. Man, there were like a dozen messages on there from her. I finally texted back, and wow she was fucking furious. She felt blown off. I told her that I didn't check my phone all afternoon because I was busy (the truth), and she called me a liar because she said it is impossible for someone to not look at their phone all the time and she asked me if I had another GF. I told that only young people look at their phones all day. And then she said she liked me but that she cannot do this anymore. She said that she never feels like she knows what is going on with me and with my life. So then she blocked me. Wow. We have been together for about 3 months now, seeing each other about 1. 5 times every week, and spending all day together almost once a week. I feel a little bummed out. She had an amazing body, and her little vagina felt so good. She was also just great fun to hang out with. Made me laugh so much. She was actually the perfect GF / SB. I don't understand how it all suddenly went south. The other thing is that I am currently renting an apartment, and it was mostly to meet her at it. I haven't used that apartment in over 2 weeks now. Oh well. Tomorrow, I will see SB#2 (a married skinny MILF), so hopefully she takes my mind off of SB#1. But now I am in the market to replace SB#1, which will be very hard to do. She was like a real GF. I am sure there is a lesson for me to learn here, but I am not sure what it is.

Midwestern
11-29-20, 14:01
The guys that say all SA girls are hookers are full of shit.

Sarah was brand new to SA.

I might have convinced myself not to follow up with her (she's overweight) and she would likely have had second thoughts. Instead we were both fired up for date 2 which was the most passionate sex I've had in years! Yep, I tried SA in over a dozen USA cities, maybe almost two dozen, and there are always some pros and some non-pros on SA. The ratio just depends on the city, but I seriously think most of them are non-pros.

And yeah, when a gal just joins SA, that is the time to strike. After about a couple of months, or maybe even after a month, they get jaded. So many of my successful SA relationships were with gals that I contacted literally on the first day that they joined SA. This meant that I had to check SA around the clock, every day. But when I was active on SA, that is what I did, and it pays off.

And I love overweight gals in the sack. Especially if they are young, and all that weight is in the right places. There is a gal that I see about once or twice a month. She works at a coffee shop. After I fucked her a few times, I stopped seeing her because she was nothing special. But lately, she tempts me by saying that she has a friend that wants to join. Anyway, I've had maybe a half dozen threesomes with this coffee girl by now. Each time, it was with a new friend. But recently, her friend was a big gal with huge natural jugs. Wow. I felt like I was swimming in jugs. Flesh everywhere. And because she was a little self conscience of her body, she tried to outperform. Amazing BBBJ, and so forth. And because she was young, the excess weight was still firm. Anyway, I digress.

Steve 9696
11-29-20, 14:48
SB#1 went back to her hometown to take care of some things. We were texting every day, but one day, I was busy and I didn't check my cell phone all afternoon. Man, there were like a dozen messages on there from her. I finally texted back, and wow she was fucking furious. She felt blown off. I told her that I didn't check my phone all afternoon because I was busy (the truth), and she called me a liar because she said it is impossible for someone to not look at their phone all the time and she asked me if I had another GF. I told that only young people look at their phones all day. And then she said she liked me but that she cannot do this anymore. She said that she never feels like she knows what is going on with me and with my life. So then she blocked me. Wow. We have been together for about 3 months now, seeing each other about 1. 5 times every week, and spending all day together almost once a week. I feel a little bummed out. She had an amazing body, and her little vagina felt so good. She was also just great fun to hang out with. Made me laugh so much. She was actually the perfect GF / SB. I don't understand how it all suddenly went south. The other thing is that I am currently renting an apartment, and it was mostly to meet her at it. I haven't used that apartment in over 2 weeks now. Oh well. Tomorrow, I will see SB#2 (a married skinny MILF), so hopefully she takes my mind off of SB#1. But now I am in the market to replace SB#1, which will be very hard to do. She was like a real GF. I am sure there is a lesson for me to learn here, but I am not sure what it is.Lots has been written on this but I think it was a posting on a Japan Nanpa site (of all places!) that said it most clearly. Men make decisions based on facts and reason. Women make decisions based on emotions. Because emotions change their decision making and behavior can change radically. So when fact based beings try to project "logical" behavior on emotional beings it's not going to make sense.

That's all that's going on here. Something changed her emotional state. And she made some bad decisions (flaming you, blocking u) in that emotional state. Nothing you did. Don't try to understand it. You can't project logic onto this situation.

And oh. As a friend once told me, there is always a better one around the corner. And u know what hes right. Maybe u dont hit her right away. But u see some great ones along the way and yes, there is even a better one out there. Just keep hitting it man and u will find it. And another after that!

DramaFree11
11-29-20, 15:44
Saturday, I meet with a regular from SA, in the morning great session. She just got New Tits, looks amazing, but she is still in pain. Great session. My next meeting cancelled. 3rd meeting, shows up, she is okay, but not my type, but I wanted to meet her. One of her first question was do I believe in God. I say, yes, common in Mexico to be asked this question. But it becomes pretty apparent she is looking for a relationship. We have some small talk, nice, but again not my type even for free. Then she claims that she thinks SA is a site for older guys seeking traditional relationships with younger women. I tell her the truth about the site and I looking for a sexual arrangement. I guess she thought she could charm me. We were about 90 minutes in and I asked for the check, she about started crying, I felt terrible, but I told her we were just too different. I felt bad, but I had another meeting.

Missed the text confirming the next meeting, then 4th meeting, I was stood up at the Restaurant. You have to take the good, with the bad on SA. I was on serious hot streak, but reality can bite you in the Ass. I think I need to Focus more on my model / slash amateur porn star, she is amazing, I real do not want to screw it up.

Also, I definitely need to either do Facetime or Viedeo Chat moving forward. I wasted a lot of time this week.Update on the religious girl. I was really trying to be nice and respectful to her, but she was not my type. She claimed she did not know what, "Open Relationship", was. At the time, I kind of believed her and felt a little sorry for the girl. Again she was a 5 in my book, no way am I paying for a 5, nor will I sleep with a 5. She was slightly overweight. Here is the crazy part, I get a text sometime very early in the morning, asking if the offer was still valid. I promptly blocked her ass.

Either she was playing very dumb or lying, maybe both. This* does not work for me, especially if you are claiming to be this Religious person. The ups and downs of SA, more ups in MTY, but still crazy.

DramaFree11
11-29-20, 15:47
SB#1 went back to her hometown to take care of some things. We were texting every day, but one day, I was busy and I didn't check my cell phone all afternoon. Man, there were like a dozen messages on there from her. I finally texted back, and wow she was fucking furious. She felt blown off. I told her that I didn't check my phone all afternoon because I was busy (the truth), and she called me a liar because she said it is impossible for someone to not look at their phone all the time and she asked me if I had another GF. I told that only young people look at their phones all day. And then she said she liked me but that she cannot do this anymore. She said that she never feels like she knows what is going on with me and with my life. So then she blocked me. Wow. We have been together for about 3 months now, seeing each other about 1. 5 times every week, and spending all day together almost once a week. I feel a little bummed out. She had an amazing body, and her little vagina felt so good. She was also just great fun to hang out with. Made me laugh so much. She was actually the perfect GF / SB. I don't understand how it all suddenly went south. The other thing is that I am currently renting an apartment, and it was mostly to meet her at it. I haven't used that apartment in over 2 weeks now. Oh well. Tomorrow, I will see SB#2 (a married skinny MILF), so hopefully she takes my mind off of SB#1. But now I am in the market to replace SB#1, which will be very hard to do. She was like a real GF. I am sure there is a lesson for me to learn here, but I am not sure what it is.Normal, girls can change there mind at any time, especially SA girls. Remember most are also talking to other men. Especially in the states, and you got these guys promising the world. This is why I avoid monthly arrangements, are expectations go up, and it rarely works.

MiamiBoy1
11-29-20, 18:15
I noticed that some girls on SA say in their bio "Don't offer me money for sex", and at the same time say they like gifts, like to get pampered, travel etc. And clearly prefer that over money. Maybe this makes them feel they are not hookers, but rather GF, I don't know. Anyway, a "gift" has a vague meaning, it could be a $50 perfume or $2000 Gucci bag. So far I have tried to avoid girls asking for gifts, because it seems to me they are high maintenance and since they don't want to discuss money it makes it very difficult to negotiate and so many questions start to arise. Like, how often does she expect a gift? Every time we meet or once in awhile (similar to monthly allowance)? How much to spend on a gift / how much she expects me to spend? Obviously if my budget is, say, $150 PPM, I'm not buying a $1000 purse after me meet a couple of times. I have bought gifts before, but it always has been a bonus to a girl for her extra effort / performance and in addition to PPM, and always benefited me in some way, like sexy lingerie that I asked her to put on, or nice perfume, etc. Any thoughts on this topic?

DramaFree11
11-29-20, 18:42
I noticed that some girls on SA say in their bio "Don't offer me money for sex", and at the same time say they like gifts, like to get pampered, travel etc. And clearly prefer that over money. Maybe this makes them feel they are not hookers, but rather GF, I don't know. Anyway, a "gift" has a vague meaning, it could be a $50 perfume or $2000 Gucci bag. So far I have tried to avoid girls asking for gifts, because it seems to me they are high maintenance and since they don't want to discuss money it makes it very difficult to negotiate and so many questions start to arise. Like, how often does she expect a gift? Every time we meet or once in awhile (similar to monthly allowance)? How much to spend on a gift / how much she expects me to spend? Obviously if my budget is, say, $150 PPM, I'm not buying a $1000 purse after me meet a couple of times. I have bought gifts before, but it always has been a bonus to a girl for her extra effort / performance and in addition to PPM, and always benefited me in some way, like sexy lingerie that I asked her to put on, or nice perfume, etc. Any thoughts on this topic?I just wrote about this. I had 2 girls that wanted gifts, and they were totally high maintenance. One made it clear that there would be no sex, for awhile, I said no way.

Elvis 2008
11-29-20, 21:18
I told her that I didn't check my phone all afternoon because I was busy (the truth), and she called me a liar because she said it is impossible for someone to not look at their phone all the time and she asked me if I had another GF. I told that only young people look at their phones all day. And then she said she liked me but that she cannot do this anymore. She said that she never feels like she knows what is going on with me and with my life. So then she blocked me. Wow. We have been together for about 3 months now, seeing each other about 1. 5 times every week, and spending all day together almost once a week. I feel a little bummed out. She had an amazing body, and her little vagina felt so good. She was also just great fun to hang out with. Made me laugh so much. She was actually the perfect GF / SB. I don't understand how it all suddenly went south. The other thing is that I am currently renting an apartment, and it was mostly to meet her at it. I haven't used that apartment in over 2 weeks now. Oh well. Tomorrow, I will see SB#2 (a married skinny MILF), so hopefully she takes my mind off of SB#1. But now I am in the market to replace SB#1, which will be very hard to do.MW,

Out of the blue, one of my Colombian chicas tells me after we have been together that she wants me to get STD testing which was weird. I get doing it before you are with someone. It was a pain in the ass and $200 but I do it and it is all negative. Fast forward to last week, and she is honest with me. She had previously showed me her STD tests but left out herpes. Last week, she says her ex BF gave her herpes.

It is typical femaleese to take things out another man who hurt her in no other way. I questioned why she and no other woman has ever asked me to be tested and why she strangely wanted it after we had been together. She fucked up trusting her ex and wanted to take it out on me. I am going to end things with her. It is not the herpes as much as the trust.

So when she says you are not being open for her. That is femaleese that she is not being open and is hiding something, which probably is that she is seeing another guy.

I was engaged to a Venezuelan woman. She had an Instagram page where she showed another guy as her boyfriend and blocked not just me but all my friends from seeing her site. She even got mad when I asked for her page. Well, I found it eventually. She broke up with me before I broke up with her, and it hurt. I had people tell me that she was a narcissist and I did not want to believe it. Well, let me tell you, she was one, and I was duped.

You have idiots on this forum telling you about how it is and how they are too smart to let anything happen to them. Well, she did a great job of hiding who she was for a long time, building up my ego, making me feel special, and fucking the shit out of me in a good way. After a certain point, she gave nothing and took more and more. I read the pattern of narcissistic breakups and did not believe I had fallen for this. Thing that people do not get is the first six months when you are in love with a narcissist it is like nothing else. You love and are loved like you never have before.

She really hurt me and did a number on my ego, and I wanted to punch back. I got to a lawyer who told me that I could sue her for breach of contract. Given that she had no money, I could have forced back to be by my side. When we broke up, she accepted no responsibility for anything and blamed me for everything. Even though she was cheating on me, she pretended to be the victim, and that pissed me off even more. After meeting with that lawyer, I realized that I just wanted to hurt her, to get my shot in, to be the one who ended things.

It was empowering to me talking to that lawyer because I realized that is what I wanted. But really what effect would it have for me to tell off this evil psychotic *****? Nothing. Only way that you can inflict pain on a woman like that is with physical force. The best way to get back at her was to live an amazing life.

MW, your gal wasn't the perfect GF, wasn't the perfect SB because she is fucking crazy and you are better off without her. When a woman is pulling the kind of shit your gal was, it is because THEY are fucking around not you. You are questioning what you did wrong when you did nothing wrong. Just like me with my gal, you dodged a bullet with her. It is femaleese to say you are not being open with her when she is hiding shit from you.

Steve 9696
11-29-20, 23:54
I noticed that some girls on SA say in their bio "Don't offer me money for sex", and at the same time say they like gifts, like to get pampered, travel etc. And clearly prefer that over money. Maybe this makes them feel they are not hookers, but rather GF, I don't know. Anyway, a "gift" has a vague meaning, it could be a $50 perfume or $2000 Gucci bag. So far I have tried to avoid girls asking for gifts, because it seems to me they are high maintenance and since they don't want to discuss money it makes it very difficult to negotiate and so many questions start to arise. Like, how often does she expect a gift? Every time we meet or once in awhile (similar to monthly allowance)? How much to spend on a gift / how much she expects me to spend? Obviously if my budget is, say, $150 PPM, I'm not buying a $1000 purse after me meet a couple of times. I have bought gifts before, but it always has been a bonus to a girl for her extra effort / performance and in addition to PPM, and always benefited me in some way, like sexy lingerie that I asked her to put on, or nice perfume, etc. Any thoughts on this topic?Do be fooled by this. Gift is just a euphemism for money. They want monetary gifts! In SA land we call it a gift / allowance. But it's money at the end of the day. A girl will absolutely say "I would never give sex for money". But she will fuck a guy that she likes moderately and he gives her a monetary gift when they are together.

You and I know these are basically the same thing. In their mind it's totally different. Never suggest money for sex. You guys like each other. You do what adults do. You don't have time to shop with her so you give her a monetary gift as shorthand. I usually put it in a card with a short note. Which again makes it more gift like.

Midwestern
11-30-20, 08:19
MW,

So when she says you are not being open for her. That is femaleese that she is not being open and is hiding something, which probably is that she is seeing another guy.

I was engaged to a Venezuelan woman. She had an Instagram page where she showed another guy as her boyfriend and blocked not just me but all my friends from seeing her site. She even got mad when I asked for her page. Well, I found it eventually. She broke up with me before I broke up with her, and it hurt. I had people tell me that she was a narcissist and I did not want to believe it. Well, let me tell you, she was one, and I was duped.

Dood, thanks for sharing. Man, sorry that you got burned like that. I feel you, man. BTW, those pictures that you posted, is that Gaby? OMG, I would wife that just for the honeymoon!


Normal, girls can change there mind at any time, especially SA girls. Remember most are also talking to other men. Especially in the states, and you got these guys promising the world. This is why I avoid monthly arrangements, are expectations go up, and it rarely works.Yeah, thanks, man. Still cannot wrap my head around this though. The monthly allowance wasn't high, but I was very generous toward her in many other ways, including expensive gifts. Oh well.


Women make decisions based on emotions. Because emotions change their decision making and behavior can change radically. So when fact based beings try to project "logical" behavior on emotional beings it's not going to make sense.

That's all that's going on here. Something changed her emotional state. And she made some bad decisions (flaming you, blocking u) in that emotional state. Nothing you did. Don't try to understand it. You can't project logic onto this situation.

And oh. As a friend once told me, there is always a better one around the corner. And u know what hes right. Maybe u dont hit her right away. But u see some great ones along the way and yes, there is even a better one out there. Just keep hitting it man and u will find it. And another after that!Thanks, brah.


Do be fooled by this. Gift is just a euphemism for money. I agree with this. Even on pro websites, they always refer to payment either as a gift or as a present. This is their way of being less explicit, in case LE is watching.

Nounce
11-30-20, 12:39
Dood, thanks for sharing. Man, sorry that you got burned like that. I feel you, man. BTW, those pictures that you posted, is that Gaby? OMG, I would wife that just for the honeymoon!

Yeah, thanks, man. Still cannot wrap my head around this though. The monthly allowance wasn't high, but I was very generous toward her in many other ways, including expensive gifts. Oh well.I think it's not a money thing. It sounds like she wants to have a real relationship with you. I won't conclude that she is seeing other man. I think it just means she would not pick up calls if she were with another man. She projects her own thinking onto you so her reaction tells you more about her than about you. People do this all the time, man or woman.

My friend who is single is in a LTR with his girlfriend. The girl has met most of his friends. They don't live together because they live in different cities but they are almost like husband and wife when together. To make her feel secure, he put a large sum of money in her bank account. I once bought a very expensive watch for my friend so he can give it to the girl as a gift. But after all my friend has done, the girl still wants marriage. The girl is doing fine financially herself, own her own place and a regular job.

MiamiBoy1
11-30-20, 16:32
I agree with this. Even on pro websites, they always refer to payment either as a gift or as a present. This is their way of being less explicit, in case LE is watching.Not always the case. DramaFree11 posted recently about the girl wanting him to go to the store with her to buy something.

And yes, I'm aware of X amount of Roses (or whatever they call money / cash not to be so explicit). My post was about girls who literally mean gifts / presents and get offended when offered cash.

DramaFree11
11-30-20, 17:01
Not always the case. DramaFree11 posted recently about the girl wanting him to go to the store with her to buy something.

And yes, I'm aware of X amount of Roses (or whatever they call money / cash not to be so explicit). My post was about girls who literally mean gifts / presents and get offended when offered cash.Correct, but I also mentioned she was extremely High Maintenance. I would of had to, put month into this girls and no guarantee I would ever had sex. If I like a girl, there is no issues with gifts, but I would be very careful. Also, If she does not want to have sex, then you have to have 2 SB, in Mexico and Europe, no problem, it is much cheaper. In the states no way. I do like the idea of the gift cards, but gift I would stay away from, too much time and time is money.

Elvis 2008
11-30-20, 18:58
MW, the breakup was the best thing that could have happened to me. Her name was Julieth. I followed her Instagram for a year after that and saw how tried so hard to show me her life was better without me when it was not. I could have had her back if I had taken all the blame for what she had done, but I was not having that.

A lot of guys are like these South American seeking women are all working girls, do not care about you and are only out for money, and really want to hang out with their Latin BFs. When you actually get to follow women's lives on Instagram, you get to see if it is true or not. In Julieth's case, her life went way downhill. Her novio and his friends promised her the world and did not deliver on it, and she is suffering big time. I know she would do things differently if she had the chance to.

On the other hand, Gaby is a good girl. Unlike Julieth, she really is better off with this other guy and not me.

Gaby is in Mexico, and there is a lot of money there in comparison to Peru where Julieth is and Colombia. It is so rare that a Colombian or Peruvian woman can do better with their Colombian or Peruvian novio over an American guy. I saw that with Julieth and if you look at the wage difference between the USA and Colombia / Peru, it is staggering.

A lot of guys who go to Colombia or Brazil may think the women have better options than them, but now I know and more importantly feel otherwise. That boost of confidence really has helped my game.

Anywhere, here are pics of Julieth. I think they are both 10's, but Gaby was taller and more striking. One of the things that kind of may have ruined it for me with Gaby was that I was having a hard time finding 10's until Covid hit, and I was kind of desperate to bang a girl hotter than Julieth. LOL.

Now the 10's seem to be falling out of the trees. I have two Colombian models lined up for my next trip that may be 10's as well. Pre Covid, I really was having a hard time finding breath taking beauties on seeking but there are a lot of models out of work these days. He he.

Midwestern
12-01-20, 07:00
\My post was about girls who literally mean gifts / presents and get offended when offered cash.Oh, then be prepared to spend a lot on gifts and presents. I had several SBs that only wanted me to buy stuff for them. But, man! That was expensive. Purses, cell phones, SPA treatments, jewelry, clothes. It was ridiculous!!

NeilGeorge
12-01-20, 15:37
I have two Colombian models lined up for my next trip that may be 10's as well. Pre Covid, I really was having a hard time finding breath taking beauties on seeking but there are a lot of models out of work these days. He he.Good luck. I thought I had a sure 10 in Costa Rica that I met online and talked to on the phone. She met me at the airport. When I saw her face it in person, it looked like cottage cheese smeared on it, from acne scars and other acne problems. I had to try hard to shake her off from being a mooch. Women are Very crafty with what photos they post online, they will blur out of focus parts of them that are problems, crop at the bustline to hide belly fat, also they turn their hips to the side to hide their fat butt.

DramaFree11
12-01-20, 17:39
Oh, then be prepared to spend a lot on gifts and presents. I had several SBs that only wanted me to buy stuff for them. But, man! That was expensive. Purses, cell phones, SPA treatments, jewelry, clothes. It was ridiculous!!Well said, but I think with most of us Time is more valuable then money and gifts. I think a lot of are fortunate and have great jobs. I can make more money, but running around with a girl for several hours buying gifts is not my idea of fun, unless I real like the girl. One of my favorite girls in MTY, the model is so fun to be around and humble, I enjoy all the time I am with her.

Now the 2 girls that were seeking gifts, I could not stand being around them for more then 1 or 2.

Steve 9696
12-02-20, 02:01
I was surprised to read on here a couple time that guys were getting bareback from their babies. Yet here it is. Sarah tried to bareback me on our second date (first date was kiss only) and I didn't go there. I'm not worried about disease since she's been off market. But pregnancy is always a concern. So I asked and sure enough she started back on the pill. So date 3 was a bareback fiesta! Wowzer! Sugar Babies rule!

So a couple funny things that made me wonder when did she decide she was going to fuck me. When in the process?

The things that made me wonder:

1. She told me that second date that she had trouble deciding outfits but ended up picking something she could get out of fast. LOL.

2. When I asked her about the pill she said she stopped a couple months ago but started again a week ago (coincidence? I think not!

So back to "when did she decide I am worth fucking". She said she thought during our date that it was very nice but probably not for her (she is total newbie). But then our passionate kiss made her think twice. But it wasn't a done deal. She said our continued texting cemented it. Don't underestimate the importance of kissing and your text game fellas! There may be some bareback in ur future!

DramaFree11
12-02-20, 05:51
Here is an a weird one. She asked me what type of arrangement I was looking for. This girl is in MTY.

But: How does, this sound, for an arrangements, Between $150-175 dollars, for 2-3 hours of fun, with 2 sessions of sex.

But: What do you think.

[well it's not what I'm looking for. But if you want just hang out and know more about the city, it was my pleasure show you Monterrey, I love to be guide tourist!

Good night.

But: What are you looking for?

I usually do arrangements like tourist guide and you don't have to pay for my time, I like to make friends! 😊.

If you like my service as tourist guide you can feel free to give me tips, only if you have a good time.

But: No, I am looking for something different, if you change your mind let me know. Good luck.

You too!

Night, night!]

MiamiBoy1
12-02-20, 18:09
What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that? I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.

I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.

Damn, i even had to order these expensive 0.01 polyurethane condoms from Japan for my next trip, a friend of mine said they are so thin you don't feel them on

WyattEarp
12-02-20, 19:02
I was surprised to read on here a couple time that guys were getting bareback from their babies. Yet here it is. Sarah tried to bareback me on our second date (first date was kiss only) and I didn't go there. I'm not worried about disease since she's been off market. But pregnancy is always a concern. So I asked and sure enough she started back on the pill. So date 3 was a bareback fiesta! Wowzer! Sugar Babies rule!This would freak me out. I have a couple friends who have had little ones with GFs who were supposedly "on the pill". You seem like an affluent guy. A sugar baby might like to emphasize the daddy in sugar daddy.

Steve 9696
12-02-20, 19:16
What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that? I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.

I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.

Damn, i even had to order these expensive 0.01 polyurethane condoms from Japan for my next trip, a friend of mine said they are so thin you don't feel them onLook I am not an expert on BBFS. Lew Ashby is the king IMO. You might Message him. But most WGs will never consider it. Because it's their BUSINESS and disease or pregnancy fucks their business. But lower end venues like Thailand and Mexico you can find it. In more upscale locations you are only likely to find with something semi long term like a regular SB.

At least this is what I've seen. And each of us has different moral boundaries but I would never have BBFS with some girl I didnt know. Too much chance for a little Steve happening u have no idea what protection if any they are using. I only started BBFS with Sarah after knowing her as a person and having confidence that she is on protection.

P.S. Beware. Several of us have experienced breakage with the Jap super thins. I use Trojan BareSkin and they are very close to the Japanese feel but much more reliable. Highly recommmend. And oh if u are even vaguely thick make sure to try out the Jap ones before ur trip. Even the XL are super tight for me and I am not exceptional.

MiamiBoy1
12-02-20, 19:53
Look I am not an expert on BBFS. Lew Ashby is the king IMO. You might Message him. But most WGs will never consider it. Because it's their BUSINESS and disease or pregnancy fucks their business. But lower end venues like Thailand and Mexico you can find it. In more upscale locations you are only likely to find with something semi long term like a regular SB.

At least this is what I've seen. And each of us has different moral boundaries but I would never have BBFS with some girl I didnt know. Too much chance for a little Steve happening u have no idea what protection if any they are using. I only started BBFS with Sarah after knowing her as a person and having confidence that she is on protection.I don't think it matters if a girl is working girl, pro, semi-pro, SB, etc. Simply because nobody wants to have a kid born out of a real relationship. Who wants to be a single mom?

Elvis 2008
12-02-20, 20:34
What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that?No, you treat seeking girls like women not pros.


I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.Yep. Guilty.


I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.If you google the phrase "large study shows that condoms do not work for STDs", your second hit will be the Catholic News Agency saying condoms do not work. Do not let the catholic crap fool you. They are referencing a huge STD study.

On July 20, a report was issued by the USA Department of Health and Human Services. A scientific panel co-sponsored by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the USA Agency for International Development (USAID), developed the report. It was based on a yearlong study in which 28 researchers reviewed 138 peer-reviewed, published studies on the heterosexual transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STD).

The panel studied condom effectiveness in preventing the eight most prevalent sexually transmitted diseases: HIV, gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, chancroid, trichomoniasis, genital herpes, and human papillomavirus (HPV). Condoms were not found to provide universal protection against any of these diseases.

End of quote.

I use medications to prevent STDs if I am not comfortable with the girl. Any guy can legally buy antibiotics abroad or on alldaychemist.com.

For pregnancy, anyone can buy plan be which suppresses ovulation. If you use this right after sex, pregnancy prevention is about equal to a condom. I make sure I shoot my babies anywhere but the vagina. As long as I have used this method, I have not gotten a woman pregnant.

Do not offer money. Show the woman you are concerned with your and her safety. It might help if you had a STD panel you could show a woman right off the bat. If you want to be a bit of a dick about it, say that you cannot use condoms because you are allergic to latex.

Honestly, I do think latex allergies are a bigger deal than HIV, but that is how I go about it. If the women do not trust me to go bare, unless they are perfect in every other way, I am done with them. Trust is the cornerstone of the SD SB relationship.

Akibono
12-03-20, 07:48
No, you treat seeking girls like women not pros.

Do not offer money. Show the woman you are concerned with your and her safety. It might help if you had a STD panel you could show a woman right off the bat. If you want to be a bit of a dick about it, say that you cannot use condoms because you are allergic to latex.

Honestly, I do think latex allergies are a bigger deal than HIV, but that is how I go about it. If the women do not trust me to go bare, unless they are perfect in every other way, I am done with them. Trust is the cornerstone of the SD SB relationship.I agree and disagree. We try to have it both ways and play the game. Sometimes the women play back. There is no trust with the person who is seeing others on the side. Nothing wrong with that. But pretending not to be to fool other side is a slightly different thing.

As for the super thin Asian condoms, they are worth every bit if you can fit into them. The are quite inflexible, so, it you don't fit, they can be expanded like latex. However, they are strong and they have great feeling--especially if you don't have to worry about the unexpected. Their greatest feature is heat transmission. You can simply feel her temperature and that can be sensational with the right woman. I know of a person where I can feel her passion by her temperature. The best feature is they are super slippery. Very little natural or synthetic lubrication is required. That lets you fuck for a long time and you can slip into the smallest holes with no problem. At times, they can be better than barebacking. When a woman does not have to worry about pregnancy and disease, she can enjoy the moment. That can lead to sex on and off for a whole day and wanting more at night. Always look at the big picture. More sex is always better.

Midwestern
12-03-20, 10:43
So back to "when did she decide I am worth fucking". She said she thought during our date that it was very nice but probably not for her (she is total newbie). But then our passionate kiss made her think twice. But it wasn't a done deal. She said our continued texting cemented it. Don't underestimate the importance of kissing and your text game fellas! There may be some bareback in ur future!Congrats, man! But she's going to fall in love with you! So there'll be drama down the line. Maybe keep reminding her you're married.

Midwestern
12-03-20, 10:46
What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that? I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.

I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.

Damn, i even had to order these expensive 0.01 polyurethane condoms from Japan for my next trip, a friend of mine said they are so thin you don't feel them onI tried the Japanese condoms, and it does feel like you're wearing nothing, but that's because they are so tight, so they are hard to put on. Sometimes I lose my erection trying to put it on.

Midwestern
12-03-20, 10:55
I'm also guilty of barebacking SBs and even WGs. I used to strictly use protection, but after being with hundreds of women (mostly WGs) using protection, I just lost interest in it. But it all started with a gal that used to be a WG, but now she owns a few businesses and has a BF. But she likes me, and so we still meet up sometimes, and she insisted on bareback one day, saying that it felt great for her too. And when we did it, it felt so good that I almost cannot return to covered action, unless it's with strange. My ATF WG also let me BB her. She so hot, and so BBing was such heaven. Is this all stupid? Yes. My two current SBs let me BB them. Both also let me CIP. Is this stupid? Yes. BTW, yes, my SB#1 suddenly texted me yesterday, after dumping me over two weeks ago. We might get back together.

Steve 9696
12-03-20, 13:11
I'm also guilty of barebacking SBs and even WGs. I used to strictly use protection, but after being with hundreds of women (mostly WGs) using protection, I just lost interest in it. But it all started with a gal that used to be a WG, but now she owns a few businesses and has a BF. But she likes me, and so we still meet up sometimes, and she insisted on bareback one day, saying that it felt great for her too. And when we did it, it felt so good that I almost cannot return to covered action, unless it's with strange. My ATF WG also let me BB her. She so hot, and so BBing was such heaven. Is this all stupid? Yes. My two current SBs let me BB them. Both also let me CIP. Is this stupid? Yes. BTW, yes, my SB#1 suddenly texted me yesterday, after dumping me over two weeks ago. We might get back together.That's awesome. Not surprised. Like I say her emotional state changed. She realized in her last emotional state she made a bad decision and in her new emotional state she misses you or your money. Heheh. Kudos to her for swallowing her pride and reaching out. You should give her another shot (so to speak) imo.

Steve 9696
12-03-20, 13:18
Congrats, man! But she's going to fall in love with you! So there'll be drama down the line. Maybe keep reminding her you're married.You are quite right. In fact I think she already has. So managing carefully. I felt 100% sure after the first in room date that I didn't need to pay her a dime. That she was having at least as much fun as me. So I intentionally paid her to avoid a pure GF perception. I waited a few days because I didn't want to scare her off (feeling like she's being paid for sex) but then sent her what I would a regular SB. And yeah I've made clear my two hard and fast rules:

We can never be more than BFGF.

She can never know my name or try to find out.

So far so good but I can tell she is perilously into me. Which hasn't happened before.

And I must admit I am super satisfied with her but its all around the sex. Even without bareback Id say she is the most sexually satisfying girl Ive been with. If she was more my type (Thifany, Alexa, Krystal) Id be a complete goner.

AmericanPi
12-03-20, 17:03
Has anyone used prepaid credit cards, the kinds with no name on them, to buy an SA membership?

Trying to figure out if possible to get an account without leaving a record.

Midwestern
12-04-20, 14:12
That's awesome. Not surprised. Like I say her emotional state changed. She realized in her last emotional state she made a bad decision and in her new emotional state she misses you or your money. Heheh. Kudos to her for swallowing her pride and reaching out. You should give her another shot (so to speak) imo.I saw her today. She said that when girls get mad at their boyfriends, then boyfriends have to win them back, and that this takes 5 days of pleading. She said that I gave up too easily, because I stopped after only two days of pleading. So I thanked her for teaching me this lesson, and that in the future I will spend 5 days begging her to take me back each time she gets angry at me. Oh, and she said it's is her personality to get angry all the time. Well, despite the headache, the weird thing is that she is only a pain in the ass when we are not together, so this is easy to handle. When we are together, then it is a great time. So odd, but whatever.

I also told her that I don't look at my phone all the time, like young people do. So, I told her that if I don't reply to her messages right away, then don't get angry. This is what led to our fight a few weeks ago, that led her to delete my contact, because I didn't reply to her text for 5 hours. Today, she still said this is a lie. So then I asked her if her parents look at their phones all day long. She said of course not, because they are old people. I reminded her that I am only a year younger than her parents. Suddenly, she realized that maybe it's true that I don't look at my phone all day, like she and her friends do. I told her that when I was her age, I didn't have a cell phone, which is true. She was stunned, and so she finally accepted it as a legit excuse for my replying to her for 5 hours.

Anyway, we barebacked and I did CIP, so it is all good.

Travel902
12-04-20, 14:16
Has anyone used prepaid credit cards, the kinds with no name on them, to buy an SA membership?

Trying to figure out if possible to get an account without leaving a record.I use prepaid cards for SA membership all the time. I also use a fake address. Everything was working well until I forgot the fake address, made up another address and they immediately suspended my membership and then deleted my account. But yes they take prepaid cards.

AmericanPi
12-04-20, 17:49
I use prepaid cards for SA membership all the time. I also use a fake address. Everything was working well until I forgot the fake address, made up another address and they immediately suspended my membership and then deleted my account. But yes they take prepaid cards.Thanks for replying.

So I gather, then, that:

1. I need to choose a fake address.

2. That address is linked to my account, so I need to note it so that I re-use the same one in the future so my account doesn't get suspended.

Is that right?

Midwestern
12-05-20, 02:27
Does she know that you're married?

When I think back to my SA relationships that eventually turned very ugly, I think in every instance it was because I lied about being single. Some found out that I was married (which is why the relationship became ugly and even scary), but some never found out that I was married (which is why they became devastated when the relationship ended, because they thought we were heading towards possible marriage).

When I first started using SA, I thought the best strategy was to tell them I am divorced or separated, or maybe unhappily married. But now I realize this is a huge mistake. I may have actually learned this lesson from an SA relationship that became ugly. My SB told me that if I had just confessed to being married from the very beginning, then we could have had a great NSA and no drama relationship, but that I ruined it by lying from the beginning and giving her false expectations for the relationship.

With later SA relationships where the SB knew that I was married, they were all pretty much great relationships. I feared that SBs would just treat the relationship as a business if they knew that I was married, but this was not the case at all. I really think many gals have no problems having relationships with married men, without hoping to eventually marry them. I think some of these gals are even relieved at the prospect of not having to marry their SDs. One gal told me that her SD was so in love with her that he was planning on divorcing his wife for her, and this scared her so much that she eventually broke up with him. I think my current SB #1 is even thrilled that I am married. This is because she has no interest in marriage.

Anyway, keep us updated on this relationship. I am always curious as to what might happen when SBs fall in love with their SDs.

Are you still on the road, or is this relationship happening in your home city?


You are quite right. In fact I think she already has. So managing carefully. I felt 100% sure after the first in room date that I didn't need to pay her a dime. That she was having at least as much fun as me. So I intentionally paid her to avoid a pure GF perception. I waited a few days because I didn't want to scare her off (feeling like she's being paid for sex) but then sent her what I would a regular SB. And yeah I've made clear my two hard and fast rules:

We can never be more than BFGF.

She can never know my name or try to find out.

So far so good but I can tell she is perilously into me. Which hasn't happened before.

And I must admit I am super satisfied with her but its all around the sex. Even without bareback Id say she is the most sexually satisfying girl Ive been with. If she was more my type (Thifany, Alexa, Krystal) Id be a complete goner.

Steve 9696
12-05-20, 04:07
Does she know that you're married?

When I think back to my SA relationships that eventually turned very ugly, I think in every instance it was because I lied about being single. Some found out that I was married (which is why the relationship became ugly and even scary), but some never found out that I was married (which is why they became devastated when the relationship ended, because they thought we were heading towards possible marriage).

When I first started using SA, I thought the best strategy was to tell them I am divorced or separated, or maybe unhappily married. But now I realize this is a huge mistake. I may have actually learned this lesson from an SA relationship that became ugly. My SB told me that if I had just confessed to being married from the very beginning, then we could have had a great NSA and no drama relationship, but that I ruined it by lying from the beginning and giving her false expectations for the relationship.

With later SA relationships where the SB knew that I was married, they were all pretty much great relationships. I feared that SBs would just treat the relationship as a business if they knew that I was married, but this was not the case at all. I really think many gals have no problems having relationships with married men, without hoping to eventually marry them. I think some of these gals are even relieved at the prospect of not having to marry their SDs. One gal told me that her SD was so in love with her that he was planning on divorcing his wife for her, and this scared her so much that she eventually broke up with him. I think my current SB #1 is even thrilled that I am married. This is because she has no interest in marriage.

Anyway, keep us updated on this relationship. I am always curious as to what might happen when SBs fall in love with their SDs.

Are you still on the road, or is this relationship happening in your home city?I agree with you that most girls see you being married as positive clear NSA from the beginning. But my very first real crush SB date in LA she balked about me being married when we kissed. She knew it ahead but it just hit her. This happens with complete newbies where they might believe they could be a home wrecker and don't want to play that role. More experienced girls realize you are not leaving your wife.

Anyhow with Sarah I played it carefully. I didn't wear my wedding ring because I thought it would make her uncomfortable. Although early on she knew I was in a nonsexual married relationship. I also didn't wear it date 2. But date three I forgot. So we fucked bareback with my ring on. I noticed it and was like doh! She said she noticed it but it doesn't bother her. She's in the middle of a divorce herself.

Yes this is a local gig. My third multi visit local gig (serial).

DramaFree11
12-05-20, 04:11
I agree with you that most girls see you being married as positive clear NSA from the beginning. But my very first real crush SB date in LA she balked about me being married when we kissed. She knew it ahead but it just hit her. This happens with complete newbies where they might believe they could be a home wrecker and don't want to play that role. More experienced girls realize you are not leaving your wife.

Anyhow with Sarah I played it carefully. I didn't wear my wedding ring because I thought it would make her uncomfortable. Although early on she knew I was in a nonsexual married relationship. I also didn't wear it date 2. But date three I forgot. So we fucked bareback with my ring on. I noticed it and was like doh! She said she noticed it but it doesn't bother her. She's in the middle of a divorce herself.

Yes this is a local gig. My third multi visit local gig (serial).We all lie a little, for many different reasons, but I think when it comes to Marriage, I do think you should be as honest a possible. Not being honest about this could lead to so many problems down the road.

Xpartan
12-05-20, 04:45
If you google the phrase "large study shows that condoms do not work for STDs", your second hit will be the Catholic News Agency saying condoms do not work. Do not let the catholic crap fool you. They are referencing a huge STD study.

On July 20, a report was issued by the USA Department of Health and Human Services. A scientific panel co-sponsored by the National Institutes of Health (NIH), the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the USA Agency for International Development (USAID), developed the report. It was based on a yearlong study in which 28 researchers reviewed 138 peer-reviewed, published studies on the heterosexual transmission of sexually transmitted diseases (STD).

The panel studied condom effectiveness in preventing the eight most prevalent sexually transmitted diseases: HIV, gonorrhea, chlamydia, syphilis, chancroid, trichomoniasis, genital herpes, and human papillomavirus (HPV). Condoms were not found to provide universal protection against any of these diseases.

End of quote.

I use medications to prevent STDs if I am not comfortable with the girl. Any guy can legally buy antibiotics abroad or on alldaychemist.com.

For pregnancy, anyone can buy plan be which suppresses ovulation. If you use this right after sex, pregnancy prevention is about equal to a condom. I make sure I shoot my babies anywhere but the vagina. As long as I have used this method, I have not gotten a woman pregnant.

Do not offer money. Show the woman you are concerned with your and her safety. It might help if you had a STD panel you could show a woman right off the bat. If you want to be a bit of a dick about it, say that you cannot use condoms because you are allergic to latex.

Honestly, I do think latex allergies are a bigger deal than HIV, but that is how I go about it. If the women do not trust me to go bare, unless they are perfect in every other way, I am done with them. Trust is the cornerstone of the SD SB relationship.Referring to this report, which at the time was touted by religious activists to promote SUBSTANANCE EDUCATION on a MONGERING BOARD is beyond ludicrous, but hey, why am I not surprised?

Look, I'm not sitting on a high horse. If you can't live without barebacking, it's your risks and the risks your partner can knowingly take, but the study you're referencing took place in 2001 - almost 20 years ago. Something you forgot to mention for whatever reason.

Didn't find UNIVERSAL protection? Sure, even 1% failure makes it less than universal. For HIV, that's 15%.

Sure 85% effectiveness is worse than 100%, but I'll fucking take it vs zero.

""The report doesn't make clear enough that condoms should be close to 100 percent effective in preventing gonorrhea in women, chlamydia and trichomoniasis," said Jeff Spieler, one of 28 panel members who helped prepare the report and an official at the USA Agency for International Development.

Spieler agreed that the strongest evidence for the effectiveness of condoms is for preventing pregnancy and HIV infection, as well as gonorrhea in men, and that the evidence is not as strong for other diseases such as chlamydia, gonorrhea in women, genital herpes, syphilis, chancroid and the human papillomavirus. But Spieler and others said there is no reason to believe condoms are not protective against those diseases as well.

"There is an opportunity for some people to read the report and say, inappropriately, that even the Department of Health and Human Services admits we don't know if condoms prevent many STDs," Spieler said. "As somebody who is completely devoted to improving public health, I know that any message that minimizes the role and importance of correct and consistent condom use can have an extremely negative effect on preventing HIV and other STDs. ".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2001/07/20/report-questions-condoms-disease-prevention-ability/73ed1ef6-6908-47e1-84c2-9e38f6876dd3/

Here is an NIH quote from 2018.

"In 2000, NIAID conducted a rigorous review of scientific evidence on latex condoms to determine their efficacy in preventing the spread of HIV. The review included epidemiologic and laboratory studies, both of which conclusively demonstrated that the correct and consistent use of male latex condoms decreased the risk of HIV transmission by approximately 85 percent, providing a high degree of protection against infection. ".

https://www.niaid.nih.gov/diseases-conditions/condom-use

Your life. Your risks, but stop spreading BS to support your lifestyle choices.

Travel902
12-05-20, 13:46
Thanks for replying.

So I gather, then, that:

1. I need to choose a fake address.

2. That address is linked to my account, so I need to note it so that I re-use the same one in the future so my account doesn't get suspended.

Is that right?That is correct.

I only join for 1 month at a time, so when I rejoin I usually have a new card and it always requires me to fill out my address;.

Good luck.

Oneminuteboy
12-06-20, 16:51
What would make a working girl agree to BBFS? Do you offer extra $ for that? I've read a bunch of reports recently where guys bareback left and right.

I don't get it. Every time I propose it I get a huge NO. I'm healthy and maintain good hygiene, but no luck. My understanding is girls do not like to take pills because it fucks up their hormone system, therefore they prefer to have covered sex and be safe.

Damn, i even had to order these expensive 0.01 polyurethane condoms from Japan for my next trip, a friend of mine said they are so thin you don't feel them onI personally never suggest it. I let the woman take the I initiative, that's how I know she's mentally (and emotionally) prepared for it.



As for the super thin Asian condoms, they are worth every bit if you can fit into them. The are quite inflexible, so, it you don't fit, they can be expanded like latex. However, they are strong and they have great feeling--especially if you don't have to worry about the unexpected. Their greatest feature is heat transmission. You can simply feel her temperature and that can be sensational with the right woman. I know of a person where I can feel her passion by her temperature. The best feature is they are super slippery. Very little natural or synthetic lubrication is required. That lets you fuck for a long time and you can slip into the smallest holes with no problem. At times, they can be better than barebacking. When a woman does not have to worry about pregnancy and disease, she can enjoy the moment. That can lead to sex on and off for a whole day and wanting more at night. Always look at the big picture. More sex is always better.Do you have brand names.

CarloRogue
12-06-20, 17:13
I use prepaid cards for SA membership all the time. I also use a fake address. Everything was working well until I forgot the fake address, made up another address and they immediately suspended my membership and then deleted my account. But yes they take prepaid cards.I've been using pre-paid debit card for the last several years (I can't imagine using personally identifying info on that site). I've run into problems several times with payment processing, including getting locked out of the account, but was always was able to get it fixed by emailing SA support. Be polite. They were always helpful to me, and seem to understand the score. The payment processing security is just a computer algorithm that reacts to whatever discrepancies it's programmed to find, so if you get blocked, don't assume there's a wizard behind the curtains divining your nefarious intent. As others have reported, what works best now is to pick a large apartment complex in your area and use that address for entering payment info, with a One Vanilla card. But yeah, remember to write it down. Thanks to this thread, I realized I forgot to do that on my last renewal, and just went through my browser history to find my map search (success!

MiamiBoy1
12-06-20, 17:47
I personally never suggest it. I let the woman take the I initiative, that's how I know she's mentally (and emotionally) prepared for it.Makes sense. But I have never been offered BBFS by a woman. If I don't take the initiative, it is not going to happen.

Luminous
12-06-20, 19:45
I am primarily using SA for Medellin. The forum there is a combination of pros and non-pros. I am trying to figure out the set of questions I should ask, cues I should look for to filter out the pros. Would love to get insight on how you go about doing that.

Nounce
12-06-20, 19:53
Do you have brand names.The most popular one is probably Sagami 001.

WyattEarp
12-07-20, 00:36
The most popular one is probably Sagami 001.Does that come wrapped in Nori?

Midwestern
12-07-20, 01:27
I am primarily using SA for Medellin. The forum there is a combination of pros and non-pros. I am trying to figure out the set of questions I should ask, cues I should look for to filter out the pros. Would love to get insight on how you go about doing that.If they are willing to meet you at a hotel or at your place or their place without checking you out first, like with a picture of your face or with a phone call or with a meet-and-greet, then they are likely to be pros. This is not a hard rule, of course. But at the end of the day, what kind of girl is willing to hook up with you without seeing your face first?

DramaFree11
12-07-20, 02:11
If they are willing to meet you at a hotel or at your place or their place without checking you out first, like with a picture of your face or with a phone call or with a meet-and-greet, then they are likely to be pros. This is not a hard rule, of course. But at the end of the day, what kind of girl is willing to hook up with you without seeing your face first?Great advice, as always.

Akibono
12-07-20, 04:11
I personally never suggest it. I let the woman take the I initiative, that's how I know she's mentally (and emotionally) prepared for it.

Do you have brand names.Sagami. 02 or. 01.

Nounce
12-07-20, 05:03
I am primarily using SA for Medellin. The forum there is a combination of pros and non-pros. I am trying to figure out the set of questions I should ask, cues I should look for to filter out the pros. Would love to get insight on how you go about doing that.Just talk to them and it won't take long for you to find out. Pros usually are more efficient. If they tell you a price when you ask "que buscas? I think that will be what you consider as pro. Pictures will be a good indicator too. Some that I think are non-pros have showed me their homework, school schedule, or ask me to help them their English homework. Some ponder about if they really want to do it. Some are distressed financially. Most of the ones I know are not out there fucking guys everyday so the label is not really that important to me.

Xpartan
12-07-20, 05:22
The most popular one is probably Sagami 001.Sagami 001 is actually 0. 018 mm, but Okamoto 0. 01 is real 0. 01 mm. Also Sagami 002 is actual 0. 02 mm, and it's considerably cheaper, so is this extra 0. 002 mm thinness really worth extra dough? Maybe someone here could compare.

I've tried Okamoto 001, and it's a real deal. They sell in regular or large size, so buy wisely. BUT! I bought 2 packages from 2 different sellers and felt something was off the second time. Don't know if I got a knock off or if I was just imagining things.

Nounce
12-07-20, 11:43
Sagami 001 is actually 0. 018 mm, but Okamoto 0. 01 is real 0. 01 mm. Also Sagami 002 is actual 0. 02 mm, and it's considerably cheaper, so is this extra 0. 002 mm thinness really worth extra dough? Maybe someone here could compare.

I've tried Okamoto 001, and it's a real deal. They sell in regular or large size, so buy wisely. BUT! I bought 2 packages from 2 different sellers and felt something was off the second time. Don't know if I got a knock off or if I was just imagining things.Thanks for the info. For some reason, I don't see Okamoto 001 available in local stores and Sagami 001 is sold out often. I probably will try Okamoto next time based on your experience.

The Cane
12-07-20, 12:47
Sagami 001 is actually 0. 018 mm, but Okamoto 0. 01 is real 0. 01 mm. Also Sagami 002 is actual 0. 02 mm, and it's considerably cheaper, so is this extra 0. 002 mm thinness really worth extra dough? Maybe someone here could compare.

I've tried Okamoto 001, and it's a real deal. They sell in regular or large size, so buy wisely. BUT! I bought 2 packages from 2 different sellers and felt something was off the second time. Don't know if I got a knock off or if I was just imagining things.Where do you order your Okamato condoms from? I looked at their site and don't see how to indicate that you want large versus regular. I liked the Sagamis for their thinness, but finally gave up on them due to too many problems trying to get them on, with half the time failing. If I can find a similar thin, large, unlubricated condom, I would try it.

https://www.okamotoglobal.com/

Elvis 2008
12-07-20, 15:21
The problem with you Xpartan is you read an article in the Washington Post and you are like, "Oh, that is all exactly on point". I refer to a Christian group not because I care about them but just because they had the data I wanted to refer to, and you go off on this Christian angle.

It is amazing how the political BS takes over everything and can get even smart people to turn their mind off.

So you take this guy Spieler and because the Washington Post calls him an expert, you totally buy into it Xpartan.

Valtrex reduces HSV transmission rate by 75% so why he is even talking about condoms and HSV when Valtrex have been proven ineffective?

Active gonorrhea is successfully treated 100% of the time with antibiotics in both sexes so why is he even talking about condom use to prevent that disease? For prophylaxis, antibiotics beat condoms and it is not even close.

The vaccine Gardasil has significant risk reduction against HPV but condoms do not.

Then you have the risk of allergy to latex. That runs up around 5 to 10% with rare sudden death being reported with latex exposure.

With that data now look at this quote again "As somebody who is completely devoted to improving public health, I know that any message that minimizes the role and importance of correct and consistent condom use can have an extremely negative effect on preventing HIV and other STDs. ".

Uh sorry. I do not see someone dedicated to health. I see a "scientist" likely paid off by the condom industry. In fact, I question the purpose of the entire study, which is not A study but a compilation of a 100+ studies, because to me it looks like an attempted blowjob to the condom industry.

As for religious groups, I look at their economic interests instead of their moral virtuosity. They want to have as many members as they can and any form of birth control gets in the way of that. Bashing condom use for them in my mind is the same reason they really have for bashing abortion.

So here you are putting in this right-left debate when a guy really just wanted to know how to get to bareback. That is it, just information.


Didn't find UNIVERSAL protection? Sure, even 1% failure makes it less than universal. For HIV, that's 15%.

Sure 85% effectiveness is worse than 100%, but I'll fucking take it vs zero.Your life. Your risks, but stop spreading BS to support your lifestyle choices.What are the chance of getting HIV from one random sexual encounter? That is actually a trick question, and you have bought into it.

Because you have to ask what kind of sex right? You are just assuming it is for vaginal sex right? Well, is it? How often does HIV transmission occur with vaginal sex? And with anal sex? And how often do anaphylaxis and latex allergies occur with condom use?

Honestly, Xpartan, have you done these calculations or are you just listening to a "scientist" and assuming he does not have an agenda?

Science is making a hypothesis and collecting data and seeing whether or not the hypothesis is true. Science is not making a hypothesis, collecting data, and rejecting the data and keeping the hypothesis. That is what this guy Spieler did, and the Washington Post is rushing to give this a guy a platform? Why?

Here is my take on the data: Condoms have definite benefit with HIV prevention with anal sex and with pregnancy prevention. Outside of those two things, the potential benefits of condom use are either non existent or so small that they do not overcome the risk of latex allergies.

If you have other data, Xpartan, I would like to see it but quit using this Democrat bullshit tactic of wanting people to bow down to some hack who the media certifies as an expert. Real scientists do not ignore data.

Xpartan
12-07-20, 20:10
Where do you order your Okamato condoms from? I looked at their site and don't see how to indicate that you want large versus regular. I liked the Sagamis for their thinness, but finally gave up on them due to too many problems trying to get them on, with half the time failing. If I can find a similar thin, large, unlubricated condom, I would try it.

https://www.okamotoglobal.com/I ordered from www.worldcondoms.com, but can't recommend them. It took them over a month to ship here (NYC), and I think they only shipped after I threatened to do a chargeback and out them on every review forum I could find. I mean, you can try. There is no risk involved since you will get your money back from the credit card if it doesn't ship, but it's annoying like hell.

So the second time I ordered it from an Ebay seller. Took about 3 weeks to receive, which should be normal from that part of the world, but like I said, I had some doubts about their authenticity.

If you do decide to get Ocamato, get a large size. They didn't use to have it before, and yes, it was a pain to put it on. But worth it, LOL.

Xpartan
12-07-20, 20:29
The problem with you Xpartan is you read an article in the Washington Post and you are like, "Oh, that is all exactly on point"...

Here is my take on the data: Condoms have definite benefit with HIV prevention with anal sex and with pregnancy prevention. Outside of...

If you have other data, Xpartan, I would like to see it but quit using this Democrat bullshit tactic of wanting people to bow down to some hack who the media certifies as an expert. Real scientists do not ignore data.LOL, and the problem with you, Elvis, is that you see "Washington Post" and your blood starts boiling.

The article I quoted tells the same story you did. Only you did it with omissions, while the article puts it into context.

Like I said, I don't judge your life choices, unless you choose to back your choices with bogus claims.

HIV, gonorrhea and all other shit out there are not political. They don't give a fuck who you vote for.

But I'm glad you agree that condoms help with HIV prevention. Let's stop right there because that's already a compelling enough argument to use them.

Enjoy life and stay safe!

AmericanPi
12-07-20, 20:31
Elvis,

I was not invited into this discussion, I have no horse in the race, and I have no desire to make people dislike me. But your long note reads as a caricature of what's wrong with a lot of Western society, especially American. Placing "science" in scare quotes. Spouting half-truths, like the statement that antibiotics are a better countermeasure to gonorrhea than condoms (though there are others in your note). I have no judgment whatsoever about people doing what they want to do with a consenting adult. But the science is long settled that condoms greatly reduce the transmission of herpes, which is lifelong; HIV, which is treatable but not curable; HPV, which is beyond ubiquitous and is also treatable but not curable once gotten; syphilis which often doesn't present with symptoms till damage is done.

Your arguments against condoms are like many Americans who insist that wearing a mask to limit covid transmission is pointless on the basis of half-truths (it's just a bad flu; 99 pct of people don't die so how bad can it be; we are no longer a free country if I have to wear a mask). It's really saddening to see this. And I know you vehemently disagree and think me an idiot, or a sheep, for it. But you can't imagine what I think of your points if they're not totally obvious to you.

Steve 9696
12-08-20, 01:38
Guys. Please take the STDs and condoms talk elsewhere. Let's stick to SBs in here. Speaking of SBs. Sarah has been absolutely fabulous in the sack. I mean so passionate And wet and just a whirlwind fuckfest. Couldn't ask for more. In fact totally ignoring her weight since the sex is so fab.

But she is overweight and I was chalking it up to that making her try harder. But today I found out it's all Covid weight gain. She is a ton heavier than her preCovid weight and in fact would be solid but not overweight if she dropped those pounds.

Anyone ever have this delicate conversation with a girl? She's a sweet girl and I don't want to hurt her feelings. But damn she's be so much better 30 lbs lighter. Advice on the convo to have?

Midwestern
12-08-20, 01:53
Guys. Please take the STDs and condoms talk elsewhere. Let's stick to SBs in here. Speaking of SBs. Sarah has been absolutely fabulous in the sack. I mean so passionate And wet and just a whirlwind fuckfest. Couldn't ask for more. In fact totally ignoring her weight since the sex is so fab.

But she is overweight and I was chalking it up to that making her try harder. But today I found out it's all Covid weight gain. She is a ton heavier than her preCovid weight and in fact would be solid but not overweight if she dropped those pounds.

Anyone ever have this delicate conversation with a girl? She's a sweet girl and I don't want to hurt her feelings. But damn she's be so much better 30 lbs lighter. Advice on the convo to have?Dood, you're not going to wife her, so who cares if she's 30 pounds overweight? Heavy girls are amazing in the sack because they overcompensate. I suggest that you just enjoy it while it lasts. One of the main advantages of SA is occasionally being able to find a gal that is genuinely into you and into sex, and you seem to have found one. So, I think you should just feel lucky, and don't sweat the weight.

Steve 9696
12-08-20, 02:13
Dood, you're not going to wife her, so who cares if she's 30 pounds overweight? Heavy girls are amazing in the sack because they overcompensate. I suggest that you just enjoy it while it lasts. One of the main advantages of SA is occasionally being able to find a gal that is genuinely into you and into sex, and you seem to have found one. So, I think you should just feel lucky, and don't sweat the weight.Man you are totally right. I guess just the possibility got me thinking but holy shit she is totally into me and the sex is literally the best I've ever had including all civies and pros to date. That is a high bar. WTF am I thinking. Enjoy her as is. Because it's spectacular. Thanks man.

Ps whats the latest on ur blocked girl. It back on?

Midwestern
12-08-20, 08:09
Ps whats the latest on ur blocked girl. It back on?I saw her on Friday. We hashed it out, recognized that we have a generation gap, and so we now accept that we will sometimes have a misunderstanding and have a fight, but we promised to always keep the relationship.

Then, we barebacked and I nutted inside of her hard. Her period is coming any day now, so I told her that I would be busy at work this week. Next week, when her period is over, I will coincidentally not be busy, and will bust another nut into her. In the meantime, we text, and she sometimes gives me shit about something, but I just ignore it. In person, she's great, which is all that matters for now. She's pretty cool, and very funny. So, I'm having fun, which matters too in these kinds of relationships.

Oh, and I paid her monthly installment, per our arrangement. But it was 3 weeks overdue. But I am going to keep to this new payment schedule. I am not giving her anything for the time that I was blocked obviously.

By the way, if your gal is young and the weight gain is recent, then isn't her body still firm? I remember the heavy girls back in college. Their bodies were amazing, as far as I was concerned. But fat doesn't age well usually.

SamPeter71
12-08-20, 08:55
I am new to SA and I have checked SA after a while. I am seeing lot more girls on SA compared to last year. I am looking into getting into this SA game.

Any suggestions / pointers on bay area SA? What is the rge typical PPM range in bay area? Is there any one area is better than other area in terms of price / attitude etc. Is ir better to look for girls more than 50 miles away from home?

Also why would a girl get premium membership? Does it mean she is pro?

Thanks.

Sam.

Steve 9696
12-08-20, 13:21
I saw her on Friday. We hashed it out, recognized that we have a generation gap, and so we now accept that we will sometimes have a misunderstanding and have a fight, but we promised to always keep the relationship.

By the way, if your gal is young and the weight gain is recent, then isn't her body still firm? I remember the heavy girls back in college. Their bodies were amazing, as far as I was concerned. But fat doesn't age well usually.That's great news. And yeah youre right. Her fat isn't all jiggly and she has zero cellulite. Her tits are amazing. Clearly they were DeeCups before she put on the weight. Super firm with huge responsive nipples (rare in big tits in my experience). Spent a lot of time last time sucking on them and it drives her crazy with passion. She's a keeper.

Travel902
12-09-20, 14:18
I spend quite a bit of time in the Cabo area where it is quite expensive to hobby. I recently decided to try my luck using SA to see what that brought me. I am quite happy with the result. Once you sort out the SB's and find a local non pro the results are amazing. The rate drops from US prices back to Mexican prices, still higher than other parts of Mexico but much more reasonable. Just thought I would pass this along for anybody thinking of travelling to SJD.