Seeking Arrangements

[Midwestern]

Let's use this thread to discuss and share SA experiences, tips, advice, etc.

I was on SA for 18 months in the states and had 25 gals. About half were just gals that wanted to enjoy fancy dinners, being spoiled, going on trips, etc. No monetary transaction was ever involved. But other half involved were explicit monetary arrangements. But its a LOT of work.

[Steve 9696]

Midwestern. Thanks for starting this. As I said in that other thread I also have some great experience to share but didn't know how to start a thread on it. So thanks.

I ama relative Newbie at it having just pulled my first girl in June. But I've pulled 15 girls since June and had some awesome experiences, many of which I can and will share here. IMO in the US it's the only way to fly tho I have had a good experience in London and Buenos Aires also.

The key point is it does in fact take a ton of time, which I don't mind. I typically start my search for the perfect girl about a month ahead of visiting a given city and am on SA every night. If you like chatting with girls and finding the gems in the pile of BS like I do (there is something viscerally satisfying about it) then it's not work but part of the fun. I've also ended up with two gal-pals who I pen pal quite intimately with tho we've never met. It's nice to just chat about stuff including their SA and their boyfriends and whatever else. This is just a nice side benefit.

[Midwestern]

The bad:

Many of the gals are losers (potheads, HS dropouts, min wage workers, etc) or have other issues (I met 2 that were bipolar, but many were just really weird).

The undergrads or 20 somethings mostly treat you like a real sugar daddy, and so after a paid date they cannot wait to ditch me and go clubbing with their friends.

If you date a gal long enough, they will eventually know your real identity, either because you'll slip, or run into someone when on a date, or the waiter says, "thanks Mr. David Smith" when getting your credit card back, or the Uber drivers will ask or say your name, etc. It's not easy being incognito for so long.

And in large metropolitan areas, the gals are overwhelmed with queries so it takes a lot of effort to get their attention. Sometimes it takes weeks of back and forth and then maybe you get a date.

Some might want a real relationship eventually and then there will be huge drama.

The good:

At one time, I was dating a 24,26, and 29 year old. All super hot. They all had jobs, but they just wanted to be wined and dined and wanted to travel. I also dated a former mistress of a famous person, someone we all know. Wow, she was hot and sexy. But overall, it can be a great way to find a no strings attached GF.

My MO:

My MO was to meet the gals for a drink and see where it went from there.

I never showed my face on the site.

If they wanted to see my face, I'the suggest meeting for 5-minutes at a safe place of their choosing so they can see what I look like.

[Elvis 2008]

The bad:

Many of the gals are losers (potheads, HS dropouts, min wage workers, etc) or have other issues (I met 2 that were bipolar, but many were just really weird).
I have been off and on SA since 2009. It is like that in the USA Now for sure. However, there are other places that are much better. I really liked what I found in Bogota, and I have done Mexico City. The women there were not as pretty and wanted more, but it was miles better than the USA I didn't have much like with SA in Monterrey, Mexico. The places that interest me that I have not done are Sao Paulo, Medellin, Cartagena, and Lima in that order. Having a SB abroad is tough but with the sex gulag crackdown, that even snared billionaire Robert Kraft, I am done playing in the USA.

[ColinBakerKing]

I have never used the site as a customer, I used to work there.

The staff (technical, admin, marketing, management) are all very dedicated to what they do. There are no fake profiles on the site, they have a fairly large team that weeds them out. Every new member request is checked manually by a person, there are no auto-robots running the site. Hence you can expect to pay a premium for what they do. They are very cautious about people who seem to be not who they say they are. Escorts are weeded out ruthlessly as well -- posting a profile picture on SA that can also be found on an escort website is an insta-ban. They do use some technical measures to help identify fakes including storing cookies, tracking IP address usage, etc. Nothing that would break privacy laws but they are very detailed in their approval and deactivation processes.

Security is very high on the priority list. Their servers aren't on any public clouds like AWS or similar where there can be other systems on the site, they self-host everything locked away in special cages in data centres. I have a high level of trust in their IT team, just from a policy point of view they do the right things.

It's a pleasant enough place to work but relatively high pressure. Management are forthright and state their objectives clearly, they offer good support to staff that perform well and staff that don't perform well or aren't up to scratch are shown the door fairly quickly. Generally they seek high calibre people and treat them well if they perform well.

That's probably about all I can say without breaking non disclosure agreements so I'll stop there.

[Midwestern]

I find it amazing that you guys are able to use SA successfully abroad. Don't you guys ever have a meet-and-greet and chemistry was not there? It's a waste of an evening, which are valuable when abroad. At home, I don't care about wasting the an evening every once in a while.


I have been off and on SA since 2009. It is like that in the USA Now for sure. However, there are other places that are much better. I really liked what I found in Bogota, and I have done Mexico City. The women there were not as pretty and wanted more, but it was miles better than the USA I didn't have much like with SA in Monterrey, Mexico. The places that interest me that I have not done are Sao Paulo, Medellin, Cartagena, and Lima in that order. Having a SB abroad is tough but with the sex gulag crackdown, that even snared billionaire Robert Kraft, I am done playing in the USA..


Midwestern. Thanks for starting this. As I said in that other thread I also have some great experience to share but didn't know how to start a thread on it. So thanks.

I ama relative Newbie at it having just pulled my first girl in June. But I've pulled 15 girls since June and had some awesome experiences, many of which I can and will share here. IMO in the US it's the only way to fly tho I have had a good experience in London and Buenos Aires also.

The key point is it does in fact take a ton of time, which I don't mind. I typically start my search for the perfect girl about a month ahead of visiting a given city and am on SA every night. If you like chatting with girls and finding the gems in the pile of BS like I do (there is something viscerally satisfying about it) then it's not work but part of the fun. I've also ended up with two gal-pals who I pen pal quite intimately with tho we've never met. It's nice to just chat about stuff including their SA and their boyfriends and whatever else. This is just a nice side benefit.

[WindAngel]

The bad:

Many of the gals are losers (potheads, HS dropouts, min wage workers, etc) or have other issues (I met 2 that were bipolar, but many were just really weird).

The undergrads or 20 somethings mostly treat you like a real sugar daddy, and so after a paid date they cannot wait to ditch me and go clubbing with their friends.Is it weird that many women are looking for submissive male. I got quite a few that favorite me with description like dominant, submissive sub, Goddes, powerful or femdom. Also many are looking for Platonic relationship, do you ignore these?

[Midwestern]

Is it weird that many women are looking for submissive male. I got quite a few that favorite me with description like dominant, submissive sub, Goddes, powerful or femdom. Also many are looking for Platonic relationship, do you ignore these?Some women are into BDSM, or they think many guys are into it. Many of these gals have told me that guys often inquire or request it. I guess it's more common when it's p4 p.

I met some gals looking for platonic relationships. Because I was hoping for more. But it never became more. Some gals just want to have a male drinking buddy, or a mentor. The outrageous thing is that they still expected dinners and sometimes some cash. If I were active on SA again, I would ignore those seeking platonic relationships.

[Midwestern]

THis is very helpful info and gives me more trust in SA. From my 18 months experience on it, I maybe saw one or two seemingly fake profiles out of thousands, and maybe a few escorts out of thousands, so I can confirm that my experience matches what you describe. I eventually quit the site because I was in a large metropolitan area and so using SA was a lot of time and work. I tried it out in smaller metropolitan areas, and success rate was much higher, but fewer options of course.


I have never used the site as a customer, I used to work there.

The staff (technical, admin, marketing, management) are all very dedicated to what they do. There are no fake profiles on the site, they have a fairly large team that weeds them out. Every new member request is checked manually by a person, there are no auto-robots running the site. Hence you can expect to pay a premium for what they do. They are very cautious about people who seem to be not who they say they are. Escorts are weeded out ruthlessly as well -- posting a profile picture on SA that can also be found on an escort website is an insta-ban. They do use some technical measures to help identify fakes including storing cookies, tracking IP address usage, etc. Nothing that would break privacy laws but they are very detailed in their approval and deactivation processes.

Security is very high on the priority list. Their servers aren't on any public clouds like AWS or similar where there can be other systems on the site, they self-host everything locked away in special cages in data centres. I have a high level of trust in their IT team, just from a policy point of view they do the right things.

It's a pleasant enough place to work but relatively high pressure. Management are forthright and state their objectives clearly, they offer good support to staff that perform well and staff that don't perform well or aren't up to scratch are shown the door fairly quickly. Generally they seek high calibre people and treat them well if they perform well.

That's probably about all I can say without breaking non disclosure agreements so I'll stop there..

[Midwestern]

I also looked at how long the gals have been on the site. If she's been on there for more than a year, then she's probably jaded and maybe she has just become another escort. The new members are the best, because they are excited and you can mold their expectations. One day, I saw a new gal on the site. 24 years old, tall, hot blonde. She even had a masters degree. I contacted her immediately and she agreed to a date and we exchanged contact info. Later that day, she deleted her profile. I asked her why, and she said she was overwhelmed with guys contacting her. Anyway, we had a great relationship for a while. She never asked for money. She just wanted to have fun. She moved back home after grad school and didn't have anyone to go out with, and she was broke because she just started her first job.

If you're worried about using SA in your city, then maybe use it in a nearby city. For example, if you live in Oakland, then meet SA gals in SF. I also did this with success. But of course it takes more time out of your day driving 1 or 2, or more, hours.

[Elvis 2008]

I find it amazing that you guys are able to use SA successfully abroad. Don't you guys ever have a meet-and-greet and chemistry was not there? It's a waste of an evening, which are valuable when abroad. At home, I don't care about wasting the an evening every once in a while.
.In Bogota, there are so many back up plans it is ridiculous. You can just cruise to Santa Fe and get laid for $20 or to a nightclub or spa if it does not work out for a little more, but I was scheduling 1 to 2 meet and greets per day. For the most part, the only time I didn't have sex with the first M&G was by my choice. In one week, I think I had 9 meets, and I rejected two and had some repeats. I was exhausted after my first trip. I know people are pressed for time, but if you have the time, it is a must place visit. I have been seeing flights to Colombia in the $300 range.

In Mexico City, your backup is a twitter escort which takes a little more time and patience than what is available in Colombia, and it is a little more in the $60 to $120 range. There was a lot more GPS among the SBs for sure. I wish I had found a SB that could fuck and suck like the escort Raven Lawson. She is such a high energy nympho. I found one there that I would call a SB that I like, and she was good, but for whatever reason, I thought the Mexico City escorts all provided such a great and intimate experience that I didn't see that much benefit of having a SB there like I did in other places.

[Steve 9696]

Wow this thread suddenly blew up. I'll try to comment on several threads at once.

First of all as I said it takes a lot of time to do it the way I do. But if you just want an escort they are easy to find. They most often will only message you once or twice and then want to go to phone text. And then pretty quickly ask what allowance you offer. So U can use SA for straight up escorts and that's pretty easy.

And I don't use it like Midwestern. In my mind SB is providing sex and more and SD is providing dollars. So I don't have any unpaid SBs. (Minor exception below). It's definitely a paid gig for my girl.

So I try to find pretty new girls and believe me they don't want to be treated like escorts and I their mind they are not. The first 10-20 messages are just friendly chit chat. If they like your sense of humor you are halfway there. At some point you will have to take it over to text. I would not discuss money on SA. The way I normally describe things to a new girl is that I don't want an escort but I also want a complete experience and a complete experience means dinner and drinks and only if chemistry is there then room time also. They we discuss what inwill pay for a complete date. And I make it clear that if the chemistry is not there we will bail after dinner. I even say I will give them $50 for their Uber if they bail. So far I am 15 of 16 with girls going to the room and having a fully satisfactory conclusion. And the one that bailed we were truly into each other and made out and all but she freaked about me being married. So it was not even a total fail and she's in my Rolodex (haha old man word!)

As to overseas I've had two great experiences. I met a girl in Buenos Aires and we spent 21 hours together over 3 days. I gave her $1000. Not all rosy tho because I flew her to London and she broke up with me and fucked other guys on my dime. So that was a bummer! But I ended up finding a Columbian girl in London and negotiated 350£ for 4-5 hours together. And she ends up bringing her hot friend. Dinner dancing and duo sex. Completely epic. And I had told her I would give her 100 if she bails (she balked at the 50 during texting) but she didn't bail! Now to be fair it's up to you to bring the game and close the deal! Just make sure they are having a blast and ur good to go.

Finally I generally agree to avoid Platonic girls and the number of girls looking for money for no sex is staggering and ridiculous. But I contacted one who is a hottie to see if she'the bend the rules and we hit it off soooo good. Turns out she's gay but does Cam girl etc. She's made $450 this week doing cams and photos and walking (non sexually) on a guy and dominating him. So platonic may mean no traditional sex but lots of other stuff possible. I am actually meeting her tomorrow and very excited. (Unpaid buddy date).

To me the best part of SA is the girls decide what they want to do and how far they want to go. There is nothing like a couple hours of dinner, a couple hours of sex and then you realize she is sleeping over because she wants to! Happened twice last month (different girls) and it was awesome both times.

[Midwestern]

Good insights, Steve9696.

Did you ever have a long term (monthly) financial arrangement? If so, I would be curious what the arrangement was. I only had one, 5 k per month, and it was because she wanted to see me every day and even gave me a key to her apartment (plus, she had a body of a Hustler centerfold). Other girls were strict about number of dates, so it wasn't worth it.

I agree with everything you say, but one small exception. I would never do a dinner date as a first date. If there's no chemistry, then it's a waste of a couple of hours. Plus, I'm never horny on a full stomach, LOL. So, I always suggest meeting for drinks. We can split after the first drink if there's no chemistry.

And I especially agree with you that one great aspect of SA is that most of these gals might genuinely like you, since they are not emotionless professional escorts. During initial chit chat, the question of what each other is looking for always arises, and I usually want to hear what they're looking for first, because they usually know what they want, while I'm flexible.

[WindAngel]

Midwestern, and Steve thanks for the information.

I think there are escorts on the site. Some are pretty easy to spot. Like how you can tell a girl is an escort on Facebook. I also see occasional use of the words snow bunny or snow something in the description. These are the words I used to see on escort ads.

When I set it up, I was thinking about using it in South America but never did anything. I recently started to try it again but switch my location to US west coast. I notice I got many favorites from all over the places as far as Philippines or Eastern Europe which I don't see the point to reply. And I must say some US women are picky in that many want others to accommodate them, not the other way around. It is quite different from South America.

[Steve 9696]

Good insights, Steve9696.

Did you ever have a long term (monthly) financial arrangement? If so, I would be curious what the arrangement was. I only had one, 5 k per month, and it was because she wanted to see me every day and even gave me a key to her apartment (plus, she had a body of a Hustler centerfold). Other girls were strict about number of dates, so it wasn't worth it.

I agree with everything you say, but one small exception. I would never do a dinner date as a first date. If there's no chemistry, then it's a waste of a couple of hours. Plus, I'm never horny on a full stomach, LOL. So, I always suggest meeting for drinks. We can split after the first drink if there's no chemistry.

And I especially agree with you that one great aspect of SA is that most of these gals might genuinely like you, since they are not emotionless professional escorts. During initial chit chat, the question of what each other is looking for always arises, and I usually want to hear what they're looking for first, because they usually know what they want, while I'm flexible.Usually I do dinner because I want to. I really enjoy spending the whole evening together and dinner is a great way to start that off. I am usually quite confident we'll have chemistry because we are often chatting for a couple weeks in advance. I can always tell by the chat whether we vibe well or are just going thru the motions. My London dinner was a bit of an exception because I found the Columbianas just the night before. But it worked out great.

But no question dinner adds a bunch of cost too. My Vegas dinners were like $200-250 each night. But I kinda just ignored it and I really enjoy the girls getting a real SD type night out.

I did one non dinner date where she really wouldn't vibe over chat. So we just went for drinks. This was in Miami. Another Columbiana LOL. But we drank and danced and did shots and hookah for a solid three hours before going to the room. This was early in SA for me and I was not setting price beforehand but playing by ear. I was on my way to Brazil so I could afford a fail and figured if she set price too high I'the walk. So after our theee hours in leaned in and said "hey you want to get out of here — if we go to the room I'll want to give you a gift — did you have something in mind?" And she said $400.

This is actually a reasonable and common price in the US and we were together four hours. I would have paid it. But forum friend Marelobomex had given me a priceless line that I used — "Ouch baby. That's the I don't want to go with I price. I thought you liked me. " And she immediately said 300 and off we went (best value to date — she was smokin hot. But what a priceless line. Thanks MM.

Oh and I am not very flexible I am only in town for 3 or 4 days and wAnt to ensure a fuck every night. So I am very careful to vet the girls beforehand Nd know I have a 90% chance of scoring.

[Vendelo]

I joined SA about two mos ago. FYI, I am in the San Francisco area.

At first I received a lot of favorites and messages. Most were from my area. Some were from Venezuela, Phillipines, Europe and Africa.

So far I have met 9 women. The first mtgs were M&G over drinks where I offered $200 to show I was serious. Recap:

1. Eastern Euro. She appeared about 10 years older than pics. Was 30 min late to a bar that was 5 min from her place. Not seeing her again.

2. Early 20's Filipina. She changed the time by 3 hours while I was halfway to meeting. Made you turn and then I blocked.

3. Mainland Chinese. Late 20's. Hot bod. Boring. Wants $500 per mtg. I'm not interested. Bye!

4. 30 yr old Latina. Very good looking. Have hung out two more times. Platonic and I'm OK with that. A little too fussy and bossy. Probably done with her.

5. Viet. 23. Cute. Hung out twice. Too far to drive. I'm done.

6. Early 30's Colombian. Holy fuck. Hot! Wants $500 for two hours. I'm done.

7. 27 yr old Taiwanese. Cute. Drinks too much. A little psycho. I'm done.

8. 22 yr old in Guadalajara. Cute. Fatter in person. Nice girl. I'm done.

9. 23 yr old Filipina. Very cute. Enjoyed convo. Wants $500 per mtg. No time limit. Will see again because I am horny.

[CPalmson]

Which site Seeking Arrangement or Secret Benefits is good in Europe? I'm an SA vet and currently still with my SB for over 3 years. Best addiction of my life. I'm planning a trip to Europe and prefer to meet a non-pro to be my companion while there. I'm talking several days to include overnights. I want a hot, young lady to take to clubs and stuff like that. Suggestions?

[Midwestern]

I joined SA about two mos ago. FYI, I am in the San Francisco area.

.Vendelo, I also used SA in SF. $500 per date is the nodal price point for SF, especially if she's hot. Maybe try some American girls. Many of the foreigners on there have an escort mindset. But the American girls are often just girl next door types, and cannot make ends meet and / or just want to date rich guys. I mentioned that half of my SA gals were without explicit financial arrangements. They just wanted to enjoy the finer things in life, like nice outings, and they would reciprocate with GFE. For explicit P4 P, the price point is also lower with most Americans too, especially in smaller markets. Good luck.

[Steve 9696]

I joined SA about two mos ago. FYI, I am in the San Francisco area.

At first I received a lot of favorites and messages. Most were from my area. Some were from Venezuela, Phillipines, Europe and Africa.

So far I have met 9 women. The first mtgs were M&G over drinks where I offered $200 to show I was serious. Recap:

1. Eastern Euro. She appeared about 10 years older than pics. Was 30 min late to a bar that was 5 min from her place. Not seeing her again.

2. Early 20's Filipina. She changed the time by 3 hours while I was halfway to meeting. Made you turn and then I blocked.

3. Mainland Chinese. Late 20's. Hot bod. Boring. Wants $500 per mtg. I'm not interested. Bye!

4. 30 yr old Latina. Very good looking. Have hung out two more times. Platonic and I'm OK with that. A little too fussy and bossy. Probably done with her.

5. Viet. 23. Cute. Hung out twice. Too far to drive. I'm done.

6. Early 30's Colombian. Holy fuck. Hot! Wants $500 for two hours. I'm done.

7. 27 yr old Taiwanese. Cute. Drinks too much. A little psycho. I'm done.

8. 22 yr old in Guadalajara. Cute. Fatter in person. Nice girl. I'm done.

9. 23 yr old Filipina. Very cute. Enjoyed convo. Wants $500 per mtg. No time limit. Will see again because I am horny.I agree with Midwestern that $500 would not surprise me in SF. $400 is quite common in most big cities. Although I've gotten $300 and even $200 (once) in second tier smaller cities with second tier girls. But definitely $400 minimum for a hottie. And even tho I got three girls in NYC to agree $400 it is clear $500 was more market price.

Now the above of course includes sex. And oh I’ve gotten with three local girls of late just doing drinks rather than dinner. These were the second tier girls where I didn’t really want to spend two hours gazing at them across the table. Worked the same, just a shorter and cheaper experience.

[Midwestern]

I agree with Midwestern that $500 would not surprise me in SF. $400 is quite common in most big cities. Although I've gotten $300 and even $200 (once) in second tier smaller cities with second tier girls. But definitely $400 minimum for a hottie. And even tho I got three girls in NYC to agree $400 it is clear $500 was more market price.

Now the above of course includes sex. And oh Ive gotten with three local girls of late just doing drinks rather than dinner. These were the second tier girls where I didnt really want to spend two hours gazing at them across the table. Worked the same, just a shorter and cheaper experience.Vendelo: Another thing to keep in mind is that SF is a prostitution haven. They are everywhere, including street walkers and in hotel lounges. And, SF is also an AMP haven. FS is available in most of them. So finding a cheap foreigner on SA isn't going to be easy, IMHO. Maybe try Americans and try areas north and south of SF, but not SF proper. If you don't mind traveling a little, I had very good success with SA in Portland, OR. Price point there is 300. And lots to choose from.

[Vendelo]

Vendelo, I also used SA in SF. $500 per date is the nodal price point for SF, especially if she's hot. Maybe try some American girls. Many of the foreigners on there have an escort mindset. But the American girls are often just girl next door types, and cannot make ends meet and / or just want to date rich guys. I mentioned that half of my SA gals were without explicit financial arrangements. They just wanted to enjoy the finer things in life, like nice outings, and they would reciprocate with GFE. For explicit P4 P, the price point is also lower with most Americans too, especially in smaller markets. Good luck.Does "without explicit financial arrangements" mean you paid per meeting?


Vendelo: Another thing to keep in mind is that SF is a prostitution haven. They are everywhere, including street walkers and in hotel lounges. And, SF is also an AMP haven. FS is available in most of them. So finding a cheap foreigner on SA isn't going to be easy, IMHO. Maybe try Americans and try areas north and south of SF, but not SF proper. If you don't mind traveling a little, I had very good success with SA in Portland, OR. Price point there is 300. And lots to choose from.MidW: thanks for the reply. I am actually mongering in the east bay. I've been mongering since '01: aamps, Korean aamps, AMPS, fetish houses.

[Steve 9696]

Virtually all my SA experiences have been good (17 of 18) but this one tops them all. Thought we need a good FR here so here it is. Long read.

So I had picked out three girls in Vegas and had great dates with all three. I was in touch with all three at least a month in advance and all were great about staying engaged as long distance girlfriends till my visit. This is a key qualifier as an escort will kick you to the curb if you want to chat much or not up for a date that week.

All three went to the room after dinner but wide variation in their experience level at SB so a ton of fun just for variety. They ranged from an SB virgin who I needed to seduce to a clearly confident girl who owned it. And one in between. The best by a mile was Krystal. Best SB experience to date so here it is in its full glory.

So Krystal had sent me a really explicit video the week before our date, which is really unusual. It set the stage for what a confident force of nature she is (reminds me a lot of my Brasileira Thifany). And sure enough Krystal is a confident wildcat of a girl. OMFG she rocked my world. I know a couple of you know Melty in London and it's that kind of super confident sex kitten kind of vibe.

So since Krystal was forward enough to send me pictures of her fucking herself (LOL) I change dinner to the Italian restaurant in my hotel. She's a bit late but she's in my Uber so I know when she arrives and meet her at the hotel lobby.

Wow. Super pretty girl. She's straightened her hair and it looks great that way. Tall girl -- 5-6 or better and spike heels. Displaying a ton of chest. Clearly solid see cups. And on the way to the restaurant she is chatty and bubbly. Like she knows she's the prettiest girl in the place (and she is! I pretty much love her from minute one!

We have a really great dinner. Girl 1 was a bit awkward. Girl 2 was solid. And Krystal is just absolutely great to hang with. There is no lag in the conversation. We talk about everything including her hot sisters. She doesn't try to put on airs or try to keep things private. Just a chatty bubbly open book.

After dinner we walk back into the main bar and casino area and I offer if she wants to get a drink somewhere or go to the room and she says up to me. So let's go to the room baby! Off we go.

There is no pretense at all with Krystal. Its clear she is DTF from minute one. I pour us some wine (man I am going through the Rose!) and we sit on the edge of the bed. Pretty soon we are both leaning in and making out. And then she puts her hand on my dick which is hard by now thru my jeans and says "I really like your dick". This is a bit of a theme. She likes to talk dirty which is not really my thing but it amuses me and she seems to like to do it. And best DFK of the three by far. She's a little hard to figure out, because she definitely has a ton of super experienced moves about her, but she really a regular girl and has a real job. Either way its great.

So I go take a leak and when I come back she asks if she can too -- sure no problem. And out she comes from the bathroom in a black teddy! Fuck! Well it doesn't take us long to get down to business. She's got a great set of see cups, kisses wonderfully, and has a sweet and juicy pussy. She does a pretty big amount of what would appear fake moaning and later screaming, but she is super sloppy, so some of it might be real who knows.

After a bit of DATY I stand up and she slides to the edge of the bed and then onto her knees and says "can I suck your cock?" Or course I say NO. Hahaha kidding. She can such cock for sure. Not as much BLS and licking as I like but she deep throats and is plenty sloppy and vocal -- pretty PSE. At some point she says "will you fuck me baby, I want you to fuck me". While not a fan, the dirty talk growing on me! So I say sure and suit up.

She is soooo sexy when she gets on her back -- those big doe eyes saying fuck me baby and kinda squirming around like she can't get your dick inside here soon enough. I think I'd had a few drinks (and several girls) because I don't remember it all. The mish is really good. Lots of DFK and serious pounding and her being very vocal. "oh my god baby just like that. Go slow and deeper. Oh my god". And a screeching build to apparent O. We move to cowgirl at some point and she fucks me really hard and heavy. Back to mish. We go for like 30 minutes plus.

After I cum, we are laying side by side I go to take the condom off and its not there! WTF? I go uh oh baby I seem to have lost something. She doesn't panic at all. She hops up, goes to the bathroom, and comes back bubbly as can be: "Yep, it was just inside. Theres cum in it so we should be good. But if you want I'll get a morning after pill, they cost like $40 if you don't mind paying -- I'll send you a pic of the receipt". And all this in just the bubbliest happy girl voice. Yeah, not too many girls fish a condom out of their pussy and quote you the price of Plan be. Hahaha! Who cares I kinda love her!

So we just relax comfortably for quite some time, her head on my chest, intertwined. I think we both doze for a bit. At some point, she awakens and her lips are about a foot from my cock and I start getting hard again. And kinda pull her up into DFK and she starts jacking me and we are off to the races again. Some truly great sloppy BJ to start. Some fabulous mish. Doggie. RCG. Loose the condom and do fingering deep while she is on her back and I am mouth fucking her.

We get another condom and go for a while. I mean shit it was probably an hour or more of this. And I feel guilty and while she is on her back looking sooooo sexy I say "sorry babe, but sometimes I am hard to finish" and she says "that's OK baby you can fuck me all night if you want!" OMFG and with that look in her eyes. WTF. A fucking goddess. I will remember her saying that till my deathbed. Unbelievable.

So we fuck some more and then go for BBBJ in several positions -- finally end with her between my legs and I great climax that she swallows without a second thought. This girl is hot chick dynamite.

We talk about her staying but I have a 7 AM call and she has to get up early to go to work also. So we shower and part ways but make plans to go again.

As it turns out I've already booked a repeat with Girl 1 for tonight and she is sooooo sweet I hate to cancel, so I book Krystal for Thursday and she is cool with that. So I get to sample a second date with both ladies. But in Krystal, I've found someone I really vibe with to the point that I would fly her to see me on some travel gig. I hate to waste London on her with so much going on there. But maybe if I travel her in the US I'll see if she'll join me. Anyhow, nice to meet someone I dig that much.

So, Seeking has delivered once again! And what a box of life experiences -- ranging from Girl 2, where I literally had to seduce her and get her horny to get her to break out the pussy -- to Krystal who is a full on rockstar pornstar sex bunny -- and Girl 1 right inbetween barebacking me in the heat of the moment.

OMG What a bunch of fun!

Next day.

So after seeing all three girls, Krystal was the clear winner by a mile. Unfortunately I had already booked Girl 2 again for Wed and I didn't want to cancel on her. I mean this is a bunch of coin for these girls. So I went ahead with that date. It was very good but nothing to write home about -- so I won't.

But my Thursday date with Krystal is one of my all time favorites. She's a keeper. I've only had two girls before who I would fly to London and skip my RoGirls. Thifany (Brazil) and Valentina (Buenos Aires). Krystal is the first stateside girl I would do that with. Plus I could fly her to lame venues like Detroit. I think she'd be down.

So we start by meeting at my hotel and head straight to the room. She was actually about 30 minutes late which offered me a new experience. As I am sipping my Hendricks Tonic in the lounge, a middle aged dude approaches and starts chatting me up. Says I am a handsome and sensitive man and asks for my number. Hahaha! That's a fucking first! LOL.

So Krystal arrives and she's even prettier than I remember. She just breezes in and lights up the place with her bubbly confidence. She has on a super short skirt, so short that it doesn't even come past her jacket. And a "diamond" choker. She is devastating. She is the best looking girl in the hotel and casino by a country mile.

Honestly just walking to the room I feel like a million bucks. She's my girl and everyone else can just stand and drool!

So we head to the room and pour some Rose. Just get on the bed together and drink and chat. So comfortable. Eventually there is soft kissing, turning to passionate DFK and my hand down between her thighs. Where I discover her bad girl black lace panties have a large hole and provide some nice pussy access.

Down I go for some DATY with some nice neck sucking (she loves this) and titty sucking (,her nipples get nicely erect) on the way. Then DATY, at first through the hole, but shortly we lose her panties and I give her some rip roaring DATY including Gspot fingering of course!

Her pussy is super wet and juicy. As Andy and I were just discussing, her being non-pro, it's not excessively washed clean of all smell. It has that perfect young girl pussy smell and when you drive your tongue fully inside there is even more uniquely awesome sauce!

We swap it up and she starts some very good BJ. She doesn't really lick as much as I like but I hesitate to direct her as her in and out is great and sloppy and her lips have just enough black girl in her to make them a joy to watch! Reminds me of Thifany actually. Watching the BJ is a highlight.

She is not shy and she likes to talk dirty. "Do you want to fuck me baby? I want that big dick inside me. " She does a pixie cartoon type of voice. I am not usually a fan of this showmanship but she pulls it off. And yes baby I will now fuck you. Thank you for asking!

We start in cowgirl and boy is she ready to ride. She does all variety of grinding and in and out and chest to chest and fully upright. It's really good but I have enormous stamina given the "hard" week. I do like sometimes to just make it really hard, push as deep as it will go and let her use me as her fuck buddy.

This apparently works as she cums two times spaced about 5 minutes apart. She's super vocal - "oh fuck baby. Shit shit shit. Fuck fuck oH my God I am cumming". It seems a bit made up but she is dripping wet and the second one I felt a couple light pussy clamps so she's definitely having a good time. And fuck she looks great up there riding, perfect see cups bouncing when I am not kneading the fuck out of them.

We swap over to Mish with Plenty of DFK and neck sucking while I fuck her deep. She's left on her heels and diamond choker which just adds to it all. And she is holding her heels with her hands on either side of my head. Super deep. Getting a boner writing this!

At some point I am exhausted and we call it and I ask her to finish by mouth. "Of course baby!" And she launches into some epic BBBJ with CIM and swallow. I love it when they swallow with a smile. Like its yummy. I did drink my pineapple juice so maybe it was!

We rest a bit in each other's arms. Actually I think we both fell asleep for a bit. This is the unrushed part and I love it. We shower together and get dressed and head off for dinner and nightlife. I had told her earlier that I had a surprise for her but she doesn't know what.

As we are exiting the hotel, I detour her into the Swarovski crystal shop. I had scoped it out beforehand and knew everything was affordable and being with this goddess I was super happy to play Real Sugar Daddy and OMG she was over the moon. We jointly picked out an amazing "diamond" necklace with matching earrings.

So we bounce to our Uber, Krystal wearing her new bling, and head to dinner. We are headed to a vibey place called Sake Rok. But when we arrive they say they closed at 10. Boo. But we find another sushi place inside the NYNY hotel And it is super good. Fuck I could look at her all day.

After dinner we bounce to Skyfall, a rooftop bar on the 64th floor of the Delano. Its 11:15 and they close at midnight but what the heck. Highly recommend. A view to die for. We go out on the heated patio and just snuggle and drink. All of Vegas spread at the king's feet. LOL. (we find out later it's a private area we were supposed to pay for but hey we got it free!

As midnight arrives we make it back to the hotel and pretty much crash -- fully clothed on the bed in each other's arms.

We are both fucking wiped out from alot of food and drink and we doze off. At various times I wake up or she stirs too and I have these very conflicted thoughts:

1. I am fucking wiped. It would feel so good to just sleep. I probably can't cum anyhow. I should just call it a night and let sleep take me.

2. Dude you fucking pansy. You have one more chance to fuck the hottest girl in Vegas What the fuck are you thinking!

And these go back and forth in my head as I variously sleep and wake for another hour or so.

Finally, reason prevails and I lean over and kiss her lightly on the cheeks. She stirs but clearly is also super sleepy and considering whether to do it again or not. Well awesome girlfriend that she is she also makes the right decision and swings her leg over me and gets on top and then rises up to fully clothed cowgirl and starts grinding away. I oblige by pushing my now mostly hard dick firmly against her pussy. OK its on!

Round two is much like round one. So she rides cowgirl a long time and gets off again -- she always finishes in cowgirl -- then I mount up in Mish and start some rythmic pounding. I actually try out the Andy move and put a pillow under her butt and fuck on my knees leaning back. I do it waaaay better this time than I did with Girl 1 and I must say the visual of you driving your dick in and out of this goddess is compelling! Thanks Andy! Plus she is strumming her clit good and enjoying being on the bottom.

Eventually tho I feel like I might get soft so I move back into traditional Mish and start a very rythmic pounding again. She starts doing a lot of dirty talk which I usually find offputting. But instead it's really distracting and sexy in a good way and I start to feel the slow build. WTF?

During all the stream of dirty talk -- "oooh fuck me baby. Just like that. Fuck my tight pussy with your big dick" - she throws in "Fuck me Daddy! OMG I just about laugh out loud but I love her zest for making an experience authentic!

Again strangely the dirty talk is working and I am using my trick of not focusing on my dick. I'm looking at her lips. And her slight bunny teeth. That tendon in her neck that is straining sexily. And Wham. We get it done! I am more surprised than anyone! She's a fucking magician and I tell her so.

Now we snuggle back together all naked and exhausted and start dosing again. No rush! And at some point I feel her rouse and she's taking off her necklaces to the bedside table. She's sleeping over! And sure enough we cuddle and spoon and sleep till my alarm hits at 6 AM. She just sleeps on.

As I leave, she rouses a bit when I give her a kiss or two and we say goodbye. Wow! What a girl and what a night! To be repeated for sure. It's just a question of when and where.

[The Cane]

Maybe I missed it in the long post, but what did these girls look like (including race), and how much did you pay them? Thanks.

[Midwestern]

Does "without explicit financial arrangements" mean you paid per meeting?

MidW: thanks for the reply. I am actually mongering in the east bay. I've been mongering since '01: aamps, Korean aamps, AMPS, fetish houses.Without explicit financial arrangement means I never gave them money. I just paid for our outings and trips. Maybe bought them a present every once in a while. I also did pay per date, and it was usually 500 per date in SF, but for that price point she had to be super hot, so I rarely did it. Price point is lower in other parts of the USA. I also had a monthly arrangement, but those are hard to find for me, because I get bored easily and quickly.

Sounds like you know what you're doing in the East Bay. I might ask for intel next time I'm in your neighborhood.

[Midwestern]

Steve9696, Excellent FR. I also tried SA in Vegas, and to my surprise I had decent success. I didn't expect that, given how much work and chaos that SA is in SF. Maybe there's a lot of supply in Vegas. One gal told me that there are almost no decent paying jobs in Vegas, so maybe a lot of these gals, that might be working in a casino, are just trying to score some necessary extra cash. I used SA in another tourist location with much success, so maybe same story. Do you show these gals your picture before your first meetings? What do you promise them before you meet? Also, are you ever tempted to bareback these gals given they're not explicit pros?

[Steve 9696]

Steve9696, Excellent FR. I also tried SA in Vegas, and to my surprise I had decent success. I didn't expect that, given how much work and chaos that SA is in SF. Maybe there's a lot of supply in Vegas. One gal told me that there are almost no decent paying jobs in Vegas, so maybe a lot of these gals, that might be working in a casino, are just trying to score some necessary extra cash. I used SA in another tourist location with much success, so maybe same story. Do you show these gals your picture before your first meetings? What do you promise them before you meet? Also, are you ever tempted to bareback these gals given they're not explicit pros?Yes all legit girls want a pic before you meet. In fact real girls ask pretty early on. I always suspect escort when they don't ask for pics. Pro tip: I wanted to use an online pic of me so I have legitimate deniability if it comes back to me. But I don't want it to be searchable. So I used my phone to take a pic of my computer screen with my pic on it. This ensures all the pixels are different and it's quite unsearchable.

When I started I figure agree the amount when you meetup. But I had a couple girls a little disappointed. I've decided it's better to settle the figure first. It's important to phrase it so it's not money for sex. They don't want to feel like escorts (I know U know this midwestern but for others). My three LV girls agreed $400.

And yes I barebacked with girl 1. Was not my idea. But on round two she just ripped the rubber off and mounted up cowgirl. I was powerless to resist! Even tho I did not CIP I asked her to take Plan be just in case and paid for it.

[Steve 9696]

Maybe I missed it in the long post, but what did these girls look like (including race), and how much did you pay them? Thanks.All three girls were smoking hot. Girl 1 a solid 9 face and body. Girl 2 more a seven but the way she dolls up with extensions and eyelashes and all she looks an 8 (looks a nine in pics! And Girl 3 Krystal is a 9 face and 8 body. Summary. All smokin hot!

All three were $400. But for my second date with Krystal I had just gotten a huge bonus and gave her $600. This actually seems more appropriate for the date I asked for which was:

Room and sex.

Dinner out.

Drinks out.

Room and sex.

It was a solid 4 hours without even counting her sleeping over which is an amazing benefit. Girl 1 slept over also. That's the amazing thing with SA. They decide what they want to do and it's not transactional.

Oh and I love my mixed girls:
Girl 1 = Black Filipina Italian
Girl 2 = Korean Vietnamese Mexican
Girl 3 = Black And Ukrainian.
I find mixes have the prettiest result.

PS it takes a lot of searching to find the girls that are pretty new to this. Not one of them was like “my regular price is 500” or any of that. I had to work the conversation delicately. I think u get better deals and better experience from girls where they will let u lead them a bit.

[Midwestern]

Yes all legit girls want a pic before you meet. In fact real girls ask pretty early on. I always suspect escort when they don't ask for pics. Pro tip: I wanted to use an online pic of me so I have legitimate deniability if it comes back to me. But I don't want it to be searchable. So I used my phone to take a pic of my computer screen with my pic on it. This ensures all the pixels are different and it's quite unsearchable.

When I started I figure agree the amount when you meetup. But I had a couple girls a little disappointed. I've decided it's better to settle the figure first. It's important to phrase it so it's not money for sex. They don't want to feel like escorts (I know U know this midwestern but for others). My three LV girls agreed $400.

And yes I barebacked with girl 1. Was not my idea. But on round two she just ripped the rubber off and mounted up cowgirl. I was powerless to resist! Even tho I did not CIP I asked her to take Plan be just in case and paid for it.I agree with you on all your pointers. Though I never show my pic before the meet and greet, so it wastes some of my time. I guess I'm paranoid. In fact, I specifically use Hushed, the app that gives you a phone number to use anonymously. The SA site recommends it in fact. At first, Hushed sucked, because connection was poor and often experienced glitches, but it has worked out their kinks. And you're totally right that if the girl doesn't care what you look like, then they are an escort. And finally, you're exactly right that many of these SA girls can genuinely like you, which is a huge plus.

[Blue Swede]

Which site Seeking Arrangement or Secret Benefits is good in Europe? I'm an SA vet and currently still with my SB for over 3 years. Best addiction of my life. I'm planning a trip to Europe and prefer to meet a non-pro to be my companion while there. I'm talking several days to include overnights. I want a hot, young lady to take to clubs and stuff like that. Suggestions?SA works very well in Europe, no problems. I am from Sweden and use SA at home as well as on travel in Europe.

Where in Europe are you going? I mights have some tips. .

[CPalmson]

Thanks for the info. I'm coming over in May.


SA works very well in Europe, no problems. I am from Sweden and use SA at home as well as on travel in Europe.

Where in Europe are you going? I mights have some tips. .

[CPalmson]

SA works very well in Europe, no problems. I am from Sweden and use SA at home as well as on travel in Europe.

Where in Europe are you going? I mights have some tips..Thanks for the info. I'm coming in May. London and Frankfurt.

[RedVBlue]

Good to learn more about all this. Some more questions from a newbie:

Do y'all mainly use when traveling, or even while at home? If so, do you actually bring the girls back to your place, or get a hotel room for the night? And do you use your real name or phone number? I'm guessing no on the phone at the very least?

I can see this potentially being a fun thing to do when traveling, but I'd get pretty paranoid doing it at home.

[Steve 9696]

Good to learn more about all this. Some more questions from a newbie:

Do y'all mainly use when traveling, or even while at home? If so, do you actually bring the girls back to your place, or get a hotel room for the night? And do you use your real name or phone number? I'm guessing no on the phone at the very least?

I can see this potentially being a fun thing to do when traveling, but I'd get pretty paranoid doing it at home.Best to just do it when traveling. Two big problems locally finding a place to meet up that is discreet and if you book the hotel it will have your name and probsbly address on it. Better to stick to traveling only. Might consider locally an advanced skill if at all.

If you are a girl enthusiast then having a burner phone is pretty much a must. Treat it like a live grenade tho. Never use your real name with a girl ever. At least that's my advise if you have something to lose.

[Midwestern]

Good to learn more about all this. Some more questions from a newbie:

Do y'all mainly use when traveling, or even while at home? If so, do you actually bring the girls back to your place, or get a hotel room for the night? And do you use your real name or phone number? I'm guessing no on the phone at the very least?

I can see this potentially being a fun thing to do when traveling, but I'd get pretty paranoid doing it at home.I mainly used it at home. I tried using it while traveling, but it usually takes too much time (I did get lucky once though, while on a short business trip). At home, I either booked a hotel or used their place. I usually didn't use my real name and I downloaded Hushed for calls and texts. When I say I used it at home, it means nearby city. For example, if you live in Oakland, then find gals living in SF or find undergrads at Berkeley. But you need to ask them where they really live. Almost everyone lies on that site. Gals don't reveal where they really live, but neither did I. For most part, there's little to be paranoid about. They know what they are in for, so there should be no awkwardness if you accidentally run into them. My main concern was that she was a colleague or someone from my personal circle. So I had to ask a bunch of questions to make sure she wasn't.

[Pessimist]

Let's use this thread to discuss and share SA experiences, tips, advice, etc.

I was on SA for 18 months in the states and had 25 gals. About half were just gals that wanted to enjoy fancy dinners, being spoiled, going on trips, etc. No monetary transaction was ever involved. But other half involved were explicit monetary arrangements. But its a LOT of work.I have been with SA on and off for 4 years. Mostly on, and when I was off, I tried secret benefits and a couple of other sites but SA has been my best site for a while. I am icky enough to be living in a reasonably priced and yet large enough city with more than a million metropolitan population and much larger if including the greater area in a driving distance of 60 to 80 minutes. Prices have ranged between 200 to 300. Occasionally paid up more if the girl is super hot, but 300 dollars is good enough for even very pretty 20 year old slim white girls. I had the least luck with Asian girls, this area is not full of Asians and they still have the platinum pussy attitude here. Some Latino girls are willing to put out for as low as 150 and some other Latino girls have demanded as much as 1,000 which I thought was crazy talk. White girls are generally reasonable, but every now and then you run into the princess attitude.

The biggest problem is the sheer number of fakers, no sex girls, girls looking for online only arrangements, and many outright scammers. It is a lot of work. But I the end it is all rewarding if you get hold of some good girls. The good news is that over time you build your database. Now I have several dozen girls in my stable so to speak. Sure, some of them change numbers and disappear. But many still answer back.

I am married and have a challenging time in balancing my secretive life on SA, occasional FKK visits with normal married life not to mention the job. I will not give away all my secrets how I do this. But time is as critical as money with these constraints.

On the whole, I am quite satisfied with SA and sugar babe sites in general. It can be an expensive hobby but if you can afford it, with some moderate amount of spending capital, you can have a reasonably OK sex encounters with young pretty girls right here in the US. I have live to tell the tale about this.

[Pessimist]

Good to learn more about all this. Some more questions from a newbie:

Do y'all mainly use when traveling, or even while at home? If so, do you actually bring the girls back to your place, or get a hotel room for the night? And do you use your real name or phone number? I'm guessing no on the phone at the very least?

I can see this potentially being a fun thing to do when traveling, but I'd get pretty paranoid doing it at home.Both. Mostly at home. As I said in another post, I am lucky enough to live in a reasonably priced city. When I travel to San Fran or NYC, the prices over there are invariably higher, much higher in fact. Why pay $600 for a so so girl when I can have a prettier, younger girl for 300 at home? One advantage is that on the road, if it is a business trip, hotel is already paid for but you can always rent a cheap motel for 50-100 close to where I live.

That said, I have used SA many times when I am on the road.

[Akibono]

Both. Mostly at home. As I said in another post, I am lucky enough to live in a reasonably priced city. When I travel to San Fran or NYC, the prices over there are invariably higher, much higher in fact. Why pay $600 for a so so girl when I can have a prettier, younger girl for 300 at home? One advantage is that on the road, if it is a business trip, hotel is already paid for but you can always rent a cheap motel for 50-100 close to where I live.

That said, I have used SA many times when I am on the road.Do you have any advice on negotiating on price? SA tells the girl not to go to a room at the meet and greet. Do you find most girls not wanting to go to a hotel on the first meeting? Thanks. Still an amateur.

[Midwestern]

I'the be curious to know what your home city is.


I have been with SA on and off for 4 years. Mostly on, and when I was off, I tried secret benefits and a couple of other sites but SA has been my best site for a while. I am icky enough to be living in a reasonably priced and yet large enough city with more than a million metropolitan population and much larger if including the greater area in a driving distance of 60 to 80 minutes. Prices have ranged between 200 to 300. Occasionally paid up more if the girl is super hot, but 300 dollars is good enough for even very pretty 20 year old slim white girls. I had the least luck with Asian girls, this area is not full of Asians and they still have the platinum pussy attitude here. Some Latino girls are willing to put out for as low as 150 and some other Latino girls have demanded as much as 1,000 which I thought was crazy talk. White girls are generally reasonable, but every now and then you run into the princess attitude.

The biggest problem is the sheer number of fakers, no sex girls, girls looking for online only arrangements, and many outright scammers. It is a lot of work. But I the end it is all rewarding if you get hold of some good girls. The good news is that over time you build your database. Now I have several dozen girls in my stable so to speak. Sure, some of them change numbers and disappear. But many still answer back.

I am married and have a challenging time in balancing my secretive life on SA, occasional FKK visits with normal married life not to mention the job. I will not give away all my secrets how I do this. But time is as critical as money with these constraints.

On the whole, I am quite satisfied with SA and sugar babe sites in general. It can be an expensive hobby but if you can afford it, with some moderate amount of spending capital, you can have a reasonably OK sex encounters with young pretty girls right here in the US. I have live to tell the tale about this..

[Pessimist]

I'the be curious to know what your home city is..Yeah, I have to keep it confidential for obvious reasons. Especially as I said I am married and taking a huge risk with all these extracurricular activities. BTW, I have used SA in some bigger cities too, paid 300 to 350 in Boston multiple times and a bit less than that in Chicago. Florida is cheap if you are traveling there, although some girls in Miami demanded a large amount. By far the worst experience has been in San Fran, I never got anyone to accept less than 500 and many demanded 150 to 200 just to have dinner with me. BTW, I always have a dinner or lunch prior to the sex as I want to assess the vibe and due to entrapment fears, I want to get a read on body language through a dinner prior to the meet. Also, I stick to white girls in the 20-25 age group, slim and pretty. Or fair skinned Latinas. If I relax my race, age or body shape criteria, rates may get cheaper I suspect.

[Pessimist]

BTW, I also used hushed. I like it. If needed, I can delete the app off my phone and download back. This matters due to my martial status.

I do have my photo uploaded. I keep it private and open it up to girls who asked for it. If you are not careful pretty soon, several dozens of girls have my photo. So, Every few days, I go back to my profile, turn off access to my photo to everyone with one button, and start opening it again when they ask them. I use the same photo as is in my whatsapp and email and phone messaging, so that if ever it comes to it, I can say that particular photo is already in the open domain. But so far, I have been lucky, and worlds have not collided (Seinfeld reference).

[Pessimist]

Do you have any advice on negotiating on price? SA tells the girl not to go to a room at the meet and greet. Do you find most girls not wanting to go to a hotel on the first meeting? Thanks. Still an amateur.Generally, I also want to avoid sex in the first meet. As I said, I am afraid of entrapment (perhaps an irrational fear, but we can't be rational all the time), also a first meet and greet does give a chance to get to know, understand, reflect and if still liking the girl, get back with her. Also, as someone else mentioned, the ones who agree to have sex before even the first meet and greet are more likely professional girls and that is usually not my ideal spec. The genuine student, waitress or bartender, office receptionist or even young single mom types may want to also get to know you before agreeing to fuck. I did have sex on some first dates. But in those situations, we still met for a lunch or dinner, spent some time talking, and we both decided we liked each other enough and went to a room nearby. The agreement happened during the meet, not before the meet.

All of the above is in arrangements that happened in my home city. When I'm on the road, it is a different situation. If you are in a city for only 3 days for business and one of them included a business dinner late into the night, you don't have the luxury of meet and greet and then sex the next day. In those scenarios, I break my rule and go with sex despite my fear of entrapment. We keep the discussion as generic as possible, IE. No mention of sex anywhere in the text messages. But when allowance of a few hundred is discussed, the girl knows sex is on the table. Only one time a girl came to my room and pretended to be shocked that I wanted sex. I said "how did you expect to receive 300 with no sex"?

Anyway, to your question, I think most girls are definitely not wanting to go to a room for the simple reason that 50% or more of "girls" on SA are total scammers and fakes. This is my anecdotal experience. Of the remaining, some are strictly no sex girls, and some have very high expectations in terms of allowance and so on. Again, this is in my sample, which is limited to slim white girls younger than 25 years old. Stats may differ at other age groups, in other cities. The ones who are nice, will have sex at reasonable prices are also careful like we are, and will only have sex after a long discussion, a couple of dates and so on.

As for price negotiation, it is jut about being patient. I hardly ever pay more than 400, try to stay below 300 most of the time if possible; I reach out to many many girls because I feel that if I cast a wide net I may catch what I want at a good price. If I was a single man, I probably would be more flexible but part of my challenge is that I need to keep my expenses low enough so that the missing money is never noticed by my spouse.

[Midwestern]

This sounds very much like my MO too. And yeah, casting a wide net is key. Being picky is a waste of time. When I was active on SA, I would send at least half dozen new greetings per day. But you do have to spend some time to read their profiles so that you can write something to stand out. These gals are getting so many messages, so you need to stand out.


Generally, I also want to avoid sex in the first meet. As I said, I am afraid of entrapment (perhaps an irrational fear, but we can't be rational all the time), also a first meet and greet does give a chance to get to know, understand, reflect and if still liking the girl, get back with her. Also, as someone else mentioned, the ones who agree to have sex before even the first meet and greet are more likely professional girls and that is usually not my ideal spec. The genuine student, waitress or bartender, office receptionist or even young single mom types may want to also get to know you before agreeing to fuck. I did have sex on some first dates. But in those situations, we still met for a lunch or dinner, spent some time talking, and we both decided we liked each other enough and went to a room nearby. The agreement happened during the meet, not before the meet.

All of the above is in arrangements that happened in my home city. When I'm on the road, it is a different situation. If you are in a city for only 3 days for business and one of them included a business dinner late into the night, you don't have the luxury of meet and greet and then sex the next day. In those scenarios, I break my rule and go with sex despite my fear of entrapment. We keep the discussion as generic as possible, IE. No mention of sex anywhere in the text messages. But when allowance of a few hundred is discussed, the girl knows sex is on the table. Only one time a girl came to my room and pretended to be shocked that I wanted sex. I said "how did you expect to receive 300 with no sex"?

Anyway, to your question, I think most girls are definitely not wanting to go to a room for the simple reason that 50% or more of "girls" on SA are total scammers and fakes. This is my anecdotal experience. Of the remaining, some are strictly no sex girls, and some have very high expectations in terms of allowance and so on. Again, this is in my sample, which is limited to slim white girls younger than 25 years old. Stats may differ at other age groups, in other cities. The ones who are nice, will have sex at reasonable prices are also careful like we are, and will only have sex after a long discussion, a couple of dates and so on.

As for price negotiation, it is jut about being patient. I hardly ever pay more than 400, try to stay below 300 most of the time if possible; I reach out to many many girls because I feel that if I cast a wide net I may catch what I want at a good price. If I was a single man, I probably would be more flexible but part of my challenge is that I need to keep my expenses low enough so that the missing money is never noticed by my spouse..

[FunForMikey]

With respect to reports below. I try to get through the price per meet before meeting. I say I don't do allowances because my schedule is not predictable. I tell them I'd like to meet at the bar of the hotel and get to know each other first. And, if agreeable come up to my room to get more familiar. Obviously, this is an upscale hotel and that makes them more comfortable. The idea that we would go up to my room speaks for itself on planned activities. And, we meet first before commitment which makes them feel more comfortable.

Meeting for lunch or coffee never fucking ever goes anywhere. Girls know if they're going to fuck you the second they see you. Give them time and they chicken out or some freaking thing happens.

[Pessimist]

With respect to reports below. I try to get through the price per meet before meeting. I say I don't do allowances because my schedule is not predictable. I tell them I'd like to meet at the bar of the hotel and get to know each other first. And, if agreeable come up to my room to get more familiar. Obviously, this is an upscale hotel and that makes them more comfortable. The idea that we would go up to my room speaks for itself on planned activities. And, we meet first before commitment which makes them feel more comfortable.

Meeting for lunch or coffee never fucking ever goes anywhere. Girls know if they're going to fuck you the second they see you. Give them time and they chicken out or some freaking thing happens.In my city, there are so many fakes and flakes on SA. If you hit up white girls in the 18-25 range with attractive photos and slim bodies, only a small percent even respond back. Of the girls that respond back, some want only an online relationship. Some say that they will meet but will only entertain a platonic arrangement but expect $500 to $1000 a month for purely platonic arrangements. Some girls are willing to do NSA and more but demand a cash app payment sent to them before any first meet. Some agree to meet but want to get paid cash at the meet. Yesterday one girl demanded $50 for a coffee meet and $100 for a lunch meet. She gave a reasonable $250 to $300 for FwB ppm but will not budge on the $50 to $100 initial meet and greet payment.

This is the reality where I live. If you have better luck in your area, good for you. But I have been doing this for 4 years and had several dozen SBs over time, and the above situation has been consistent over time.

The issue is all about the first meet. Once I met a girl, we know each other, it is never a problem from second meet on. We know what we each want and have some amount of trust. But first meet is always tricky.

If I am on the road and already have a hotel, I can ask the girl to meet at my hotel. But in my home city, I am not going to rent a hotel room without knowing the girl will show up for sure. Given how many flakes there are on the site, it would be foolish to rent a room, and hope that the girl will show up. I know guys who have done it and looked like fools being stuck with a room but no girl.

I think if you get a good SB, you should hold onto her. Sure, I like to sample as many girls as possible, but I go to FKKs for this. If I get a really good girl, I try to do at least a few months with her, assuming one or two meets a month. This implies say, ten fucks in a few months? I have fucked some FKK girls many more times than that, such as Megan in Sharks, Lavinia in Oase and so on. I am able to tolerate ten fuck sessions with a good girl spanning a few months.

[Midwestern]

I prefer SA gals that live an hour or two away from me. This means that a meet and greet can take up to an entire half day. So I often hope for instant chemistry, so that we can just waltz to the hotel room, so sometimes I roll the dice and book a room for the first date. But like Pessimist says, many times the gal doesn't show up, and I'm stuck with a room. One might think it's easy to just quickly book a room (on an app) after the gal shows up and chemistry is established, but you still have you still check in, which means she'll find out your real identity.

[Steve 9696]

So I've been reading a lot of Nanpa (Japanese street pickup) of late and it has a lot of very helpful tips for closing the deal with girls in general and therefore SA girls. Without it there is no way I would have closed Jesse in Las Vegas (full story available if anyone is interested) but more recently it's been helping me increase my contact rate on SA!

The idea is after you "open" a girl on the street and I want to get her to drinks or such you don't say "do you want to xxx". You say "I'm going to go do xxx. Want to come". It's a subtle difference but it's a difference.

So on SA I used to try to think up clever things to say and how to catch their attention. The past two days I've just been saying "I'm going to XX to do YYY on Saturday. Want to join me?" And the number of responses has spiked dramatically. Still some ways to go to see which deal I close if any but it is interesting how quick I get interest this way.

[Midwestern]

Maybe take it a tad further. State it as a command. "Meet me at xxxx at xx:00 PM. " I learned this from a friend who was taking psychology courses. He said most of us are indecisive, mostly because we worry too much about making bad decisions, so it relaxes a person to take that nervousness away from them. My success rate is way, way better when I say "let's go to my room" as opposed to "want to go to my room?"


So I've been reading a lot of Nanpa (Japanese street pickup) of late and it has a lot of very helpful tips for closing the deal with girls in general and therefore SA girls. Without it there is no way I would have closed Jesse in Las Vegas (full story available if anyone is interested) but more recently it's been helping me increase my contact rate on SA!

The idea is after you "open" a girl on the street and I want to get her to drinks or such you don't say "do you want to xxx". You say "I'm going to go do xxx. Want to come". It's a subtle difference but it's a difference.

So on SA I used to try to think up clever things to say and how to catch their attention. The past two days I've just been saying "I'm going to XX to do YYY on Saturday. Want to join me?" And the number of responses has spiked dramatically. Still some ways to go to see which deal I close if any but it is interesting how quick I get interest this way..

[Akibono]

Generally, I also want to avoid sex in the first meet. As I said, I am afraid of entrapment (perhaps an irrational fear, but we can't be rational all the time), also a first meet and greet does give a chance to get to know, understand, reflect and if still liking the girl, get back with her. Also, as someone else mentioned, the ones who agree to have sex before even the first meet and greet are more likely professional girls and that is usually not my ideal spec. The genuine student, waitress or bartender, office receptionist or even young single mom types may want to also get to know you before agreeing to fuck. I did have sex on some first dates. But in those situations, we still met for a lunch or dinner, spent some time talking, and we both decided we liked each other enough and went to a room nearby. The agreement happened during the meet, not before the meet..Finally going on my first date. I find the process quite awkward since I am new to this. My main concern is not being stuck with a skanky ho or being robbed. In the states, you have to worry more about scams. We agreed to meet at a place for a bite or drink and then go up to the hotel. How is payment typically handled? I presume you pay at the beginning, but I am a bit concerned that the gal will grab the money and run and I will have to face her pimp. But I also understand that the girl does not want to be stiffed too. I never have problems with escorts because they know the drill. I am going to put the money out and she can take it when she leaves. I think that is a good compromise. What do you think are some risks I am not aware of? I am single so I am not worried about them knowing my name, but I am a bit concerned about my car since plates can easily be traced. Don't want strangers showing up at my place. Not cool.

[Steve 9696]

Finally going on my first date. I find the process quite awkward since I am new to this. My main concern is not being stuck with a skanky ho or being robbed. In the states, you have to worry more about scams. We agreed to meet at a place for a bite or drink and then go up to the hotel. How is payment typically handled? I presume you pay at the beginning, but I am a bit concerned that the gal will grab the money and run and I will have to face her pimp. But I also understand that the girl does not want to be stiffed too. I never have problems with escorts because they know the drill. I am going to put the money out and she can take it when she leaves. I think that is a good compromise. What do you think are some risks I am not aware of? I am single so I am not worried about them knowing my name, but I am a bit concerned about my car since plates can easily be traced. Don't want strangers showing up at my place. Not cool.Dude if you are worried about these things you are doing it all wrong. A quality SA has none of these worries! She doesn't have a pimp for fuck sake! She's just a regular girl getting a bit of extra cash. Not a hardened pro. She is way more scared about the encounter than you should ever be. At least these are the girls I find worthy on SA. And you can spot the pros a mile away.

As far as money with the right girl I get a thank you note and write a personal note and include the cash. She doesn't want to feel like a hooker. So help her out! And I never put it in plain sight. Always under the ice bucket or something. She hasn't seen any inkling of a dollar until we are fully wrapped up! Shit my London girl I forgot. And she didn't even ask till 4.5 hours later we were in the hall "did you have a gift for me?

These are the girls that are the gems on SA. If I had to worry about all the shit you list I would never do SA.

[Midwestern]

At Akibono, SA gals are not supposed be escorts. If you're looking for an escort, look elsewhere. SA gals are supposed to be NSA GFs. If you don't get that vibe from your date, then take a pass.

[SexOnLegs]

Which site Seeking Arrangement or Secret Benefits is good in Europe? I'm an SA vet and currently still with my SB for over 3 years. Best addiction of my life. I'm planning a trip to Europe and prefer to meet a non-pro to be my companion while there. I'm talking several days to include overnights. I want a hot, young lady to take to clubs and stuff like that. Suggestions?I was going through these conversations and I thought I could give some tips on this idea.

[Akibono]

At Akibono, SA gals are not supposed be escorts. If you're looking for an escort, look elsewhere. SA gals are supposed to be NSA GFs. If you don't get that vibe from your date, then take a pass.Thanks both of you for the input. I am still getting familiar with the system. I do not have enough experience to tell the difference between a gal that is trying to avoid the scammers who want things for free and those that want to scam you. I am experienced enough to know how to be careful. I have never had a problem with a European escort. But in the USA and Canada what is advertised is often what does not show up. I have experienced a demand for payment when you refuse them. I am sure after a few M and G I can handle the situation. How do you tell the difference between the professionals and those that just know how the system operates? Do you always negotiate the gifts in advance? If you do, how do you avoid making the situation feel like an escort?

[GoodJobJohn]

Hello Fellow Mongers (newbie).

Has anyone used this site https://sugarbook.com to get SB's in Europe?

Thanks.

[Midwestern]

Lots of good advice in this thread already. All of Steve's advice are particularly good. But many others have also provided their valuable information on their experience too.


Thanks both of you for the input. I am still getting familiar with the system. I do not have enough experience to tell the difference between a gal that is trying to avoid the scammers who want things for free and those that want to scam you. I am experienced enough to know how to be careful. I have never had a problem with a European escort. But in the USA and Canada what is advertised is often what does not show up. I have experienced a demand for payment when you refuse them. I am sure after a few M and G I can handle the situation. How do you tell the difference between the professionals and those that just know how the system operates? Do you always negotiate the gifts in advance? If you do, how do you avoid making the situation feel like an escort?.

[SavePros321]

What do you think are some risks I am not aware of? I am single so I am not worried about them knowing my name, but I am a bit concerned about my car since plates can easily be traced. Don't want strangers showing up at my place. Not cool.See the attached photo where I got myself into a situation that I had no idea of how to escape.

More on that in just a minute.

I know this is an international site, but most guys forget the distinction. What happens in Europe on SA will not work the same in the US. Prostitution is 100% illegal in the US, and most of the scammers and robbing crews on these SB websites are banking on the fact that you will not go to the authorities should they catch you slipping and set you up. I mean, it's illegal right? How much sympathy would you expect the cops to have for you?

Another thing guys fail to realize about SB websites is that you and the female are diametrically opposed:

-Her goal is to get as much out of you as possible without having to do anything for it. Let alone have sex! Most of them would love for you to Cash App them money without them ever having to meet you in person.

-Your goal is to get sex from her without shelling out a bunch of money on gifts and useless dinner dates just to finally get to bang her. Kinda sounds exactly like regular dating, right?

For the REAL SBs on those websites, they basically want a guy that would be someone they would see being someone they would actually be in a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship with, with the added benefit of this person giving them money. Think the Billionaire character in the 50 Shades of Gray movie who has the three 6's all women want: 6-pack, 6-feet tall, 6-figures.

A fat slob that wants to give her money for her honey? "I'm not a pr0 stitut3!

Back to my story.

My main protocol on SA is to never ever agree to meet with any female on SA without FIRST video chatting with her either via FaceTime, Google Hangouts, or Duo because I do not post any photos that show my face (I am also not going to send Snaps via Snapchat back and forth, the conversation has to be in real-time). This cuts down significantly on scammers who are using fake profiles and pretending to be the females in the photos to dupe suckers into sending photos of themselves (yes, there are gangs on those sites profiling "Whales". More on that later).

I only discuss monetary "help" and potential meeting dates / times / locations via video chat, and this has always been fool-proof. Until it isn't.

The broad in the text messaging screenshot attached: We video chat and she seems to be at home alone at the time. Works a normal job and we schedule a time to meet around her work schedule.

(Also key: always try to do these meetings during the early daylight hours, as you will see why in a minute).

We agree to meet at a Starbucks in my area (a very nice part of town).

I get there early and pick a spot in the back of the place near the restrooms. Closer to the meeting time for her to arrive, I look towards the front of the store and there are a handful of Latino males and females pacing out front. They caught my attention so quickly because the looked very much out of place there. One of the younger guys is looking into the store from outside and we lock eyes. They eventually come into the store and go to the counter. The males are paired up with the females and it is made to look like they are all on a date. They sit at a long table not too far from where I was positioned.

I then get a text from the girl I am supposed to be meeting and she says "I'm here". I then reply "I'm inside".

She then texts back the following:

"he said he's inside".

"Wrong person".

"Sorry I didn't mean to send that".

I then freeze the fuck up. "Damn, what's my next move?

100% sure at this point that the Latino crew is with the chick I am supposed to meet (she was a latina). I then get on my cell phone and pretend to be talking to someone. The girl I am meeting finally comes in and walks over to me and sits, looking hella embarrassed by the fact that she's given up the game.

"Who were you talking to?" I say. She replies "I didn't mean to send that. " And that's it. Since again I am certain she is with the young Latino crew, something in my mind tells me to remove this chick from the situation. I immediately get up and say "there's too many people in here. LE't go for a walk" and start to head for the door. She follows promptly behind me.

To shorten this story up a bit, we walk on the strip of this Starbucks and I talk to her as if we are still trying to determine when would be good day and time for her to come over and how much she wanted for it. But I knew I was going to block this scamming h03's number as soon as I could get clear of her. Good thing working in my favor was that she nor they had any idea what I drove there in since I arrived super early (and she was late).

We come back from a bit down the sidewalk of the main street and I stop in front of a BBQ joint that is also on the same strip but a but further down. I tell her "cool, I'll hit you up and we can talk more as we get closer to the date of us meeting. " I give her a hug and then tell her "I'm going to get some lunch!" And then I disappear into the BBQ joint.

Now at this point I am still trying to plot my escape. I had no idea if the Latinos where watching from Starbucks or not. From the restaurant I stand inside and look at my phone like I am waiting on a friend to arrive. I see the scammer girl get into her car and leave, and I keep my eyes on the Starbucks from the restaurant. A little bit later I see the young Latino group all leave out of Starbucks and start to head in the direction of the restaurant. They pause about halfway, linger for a bit, and then go back into the Starbucks. At this point I haul ass to my car, jump in, put it in gear, roll quickly out of the parking lot and blow through the red light.

Just in case I was being tailed, I went out of my way to make wild, sudden turns onto new streets, bust you-turns, and take a much longer route back to my place.

Parting advice for newbs:

Never EVER show your face on those SB websites. All of my photos on Seeking Arrangements have my face blurred or blacked out. Some of those SB websites will not let you hide your face; I would not use those sites at all. You are setting yourself up to be robbed once the robbing crews know what "Big Bank Hank" looks like. Remember how escorts used to hide their faces on Backpage or Craigslist? YOU are the prize on the SB sites. You need to do the same.

Also, never EVER agree to meet a female in person unless you video chat via FaceTime or Google Hangouts or Duo FIRST. Obviously it does not save you from scammers 100% of the time as I have demonstrated in the above story, but my experience has been that it filters out a lot of chaff. Any chick that runs away when you tell them to video chat with you first is 100% a scam chick or not the chick in the photos.

If they ask me to send a photo, I tell them video chat only. Do not send a photo of yourself! I would say at least 85% of the younger female profiles who are less than 25 yrs old are probably Pookie's or Paco's trying to see if you are stupid enough to give away as much personal details about yourself as possible in order for them to figure out where you live and what you drive.

And don't be so much of a chump that you would send money to a chick you've never met in person! I have had females on SA tell me that they need to be compensated to talk to me via video chat or for meeting me in person. If a chick tells you she needs to be compensated for meeting you or talking with you via video chat to determine if the two of you could potentially help one another out, tell that h0 e to get lost!

Hope someone out there gets value from this post and use it to avoid getting got.

[Steve 9696]

See the attached photo where I got myself into a situation that I had no idea of how to escape.

More on that in just a minute.

I know this is an international site, but most guys forget the distinction. What happens in Europe on SA will not work the same in the US. Prostitution is 100% illegal in the US, and most of the scammers and robbing crews on these SB websites are banking on the fact that you will not go to the authorities should they catch you slipping and set you up. I mean, it's illegal right? How much sympathy would you expect the cops to have for you?

Another thing guys fail to realize about SB websites is that you and the female are diametrically opposed:

-Her goal is to get as much out of you as possible without having to do anything for it. Let alone have sex! Most of them would love for you to Cash App them money without them ever having to meet you in person.

-Your goal is to get sex from her without shelling out a bunch of money on gifts and useless dinner dates just to finally get to bang her. Kinda sounds exactly like regular dating, right?

For the REAL SBs on those websites, they basically want a guy that would be someone they would see being someone they would actually be in a boyfriend / girlfriend relationship with, with the added benefit of this person giving them money. Think the Billionaire character in the 50 Shades of Gray movie who has the three 6's all women want: 6-pack, 6-feet tall, 6-figures.

A fat slob that wants to give her money for her honey? "I'm not a pr0 stitut3!

Back to my story.

My main protocol on SA is to never ever agree to meet with any female on SA without FIRST video chatting with her either via FaceTime, Google Hangouts, or Duo because I do not post any photos that show my face (I am also not going to send Snaps via Snapchat back and forth, the conversation has to be in real-time). This cuts down significantly on scammers who are using fake profiles and pretending to be the females in the photos to dupe suckers into sending photos of themselves (yes, there are gangs on those sites profiling "Whales". More on that later).

I only discuss monetary "help" and potential meeting dates / times / locations via video chat, and this has always been fool-proof. Until it isn't.

The broad in the text messaging screenshot attached: We video chat and she seems to be at home alone at the time. Works a normal job and we schedule a time to meet around her work schedule.

(Also key: always try to do these meetings during the early daylight hours, as you will see why in a minute).

We agree to meet at a Starbucks in my area (a very nice part of town).

I get there early and pick a spot in the back of the place near the restrooms. Closer to the meeting time for her to arrive, I look towards the front of the store and there are a handful of Latino males and females pacing out front. They caught my attention so quickly because the looked very much out of place there. One of the younger guys is looking into the store from outside and we lock eyes. They eventually come into the store and go to the counter. The males are paired up with the females and it is made to look like they are all on a date. They sit at a long table not too far from where I was positioned.

I then get a text from the girl I am supposed to be meeting and she says "I'm here". I then reply "I'm inside".

She then texts back the following:

"he said he's inside".

"Wrong person".

"Sorry I didn't mean to send that".

I then freeze the fuck up. "Damn, what's my next move?

100% sure at this point that the Latino crew is with the chick I am supposed to meet (she was a latina). I then get on my cell phone and pretend to be talking to someone. The girl I am meeting finally comes in and walks over to me and sits, looking hella embarrassed by the fact that she's given up the game.

"Who were you talking to?" I say. She replies "I didn't mean to send that. " And that's it. Since again I am certain she is with the young Latino crew, something in my mind tells me to remove this chick from the situation. I immediately get up and say "there's too many people in here. LE't go for a walk" and start to head for the door. She follows promptly behind me.

To shorten this story up a bit, we walk on the strip of this Starbucks and I talk to her as if we are still trying to determine when would be good day and time for her to come over and how much she wanted for it. But I knew I was going to block this scamming h03's number as soon as I could get clear of her. Good thing working in my favor was that she nor they had any idea what I drove there in since I arrived super early (and she was late).

We come back from a bit down the sidewalk of the main street and I stop in front of a BBQ joint that is also on the same strip but a but further down. I tell her "cool, I'll hit you up and we can talk more as we get closer to the date of us meeting. " I give her a hug and then tell her "I'm going to get some lunch!" And then I disappear into the BBQ joint.

Now at this point I am still trying to plot my escape. I had no idea if the Latinos where watching from Starbucks or not. From the restaurant I stand inside and look at my phone like I am waiting on a friend to arrive. I see the scammer girl get into her car and leave, and I keep my eyes on the Starbucks from the restaurant. A little bit later I see the young Latino group all leave out of Starbucks and start to head in the direction of the restaurant. They pause about halfway, linger for a bit, and then go back into the Starbucks. At this point I haul ass to my car, jump in, put it in gear, roll quickly out of the parking lot and blow through the red light.

Just in case I was being tailed, I went out of my way to make wild, sudden turns onto new streets, bust you-turns, and take a much longer route back to my place.

Parting advice for newbs:

Never EVER show your face on those SB websites. All of my photos on Seeking Arrangements have my face blurred or blacked out. Some of those SB websites will not let you hide your face; I would not use those sites at all. You are setting yourself up to be robbed once the robbing crews know what "Big Bank Hank" looks like. Remember how escorts used to hide their faces on Backpage or Craigslist? YOU are the prize on the SB sites. You need to do the same.

Also, never EVER agree to meet a female in person unless you video chat via FaceTime or Google Hangouts or Duo FIRST. Obviously it does not save you from scammers 100% of the time as I have demonstrated in the above story, but my experience has been that it filters out a lot of chaff. Any chick that runs away when you tell them to video chat with you first is 100% a scam chick or not the chick in the photos.

If they ask me to send a photo, I tell them video chat only. Do not send a photo of yourself! I would say at least 85% of the younger female profiles who are less than 25 yrs old are probably Pookie's or Paco's trying to see if you are stupid enough to give away as much personal details about yourself as possible in order for them to figure out where you live and what you drive.

And don't be so much of a chump that you would send money to a chick you've never met in person! I have had females on SA tell me that they need to be compensated to talk to me via video chat or for meeting me in person. If a chick tells you she needs to be compensated for meeting you or talking with you via video chat to determine if the two of you could potentially help one another out, tell that h0 e to get lost!

Hope someone out there gets value from this post and use it to avoid getting got.Look I am sorry you had a scary experience. But using that one experience to paint all of SA is just wrong. The one good piece of advice in the above is never send money. Any girl who asks for money upfront instant block. The rest of it will assure you a horrible SA experience. You do not need to video chat. You don't need to meet in a Starbucks, unless you want to guarantee you won't be laid that day.

I've done 17 US based SA since June and none have been anything other than nice girls, except for one that I knew was a straight up hooker from our interactions. And her only problem was she was late and lazy. Of course I had screened out any scammers and cash girls. I don't doubt that it CAN happen; but I think the chances are very very low.

I am sure others here who have been using it successfully will agree.

Oh and I do agree with u though that real SA girls are not willing to fuck a fat slob for money. In fact the moment it smells vaguely like sex for money u are done. You have to have at least decent looks and some game if u wanna close the hotties and they wont meet u without a pic. I would never post on SA but will text an unsearchable pic after we are comfy.

[Midwestern]

At SavePros321,

In addition to what Steve said, it's possible the gal was texting a friend who was worried about her meeting a stranger. Almost all of my SA dates later told me that they had a friend who had their back during our date (for example, their friend was close by, to make sure she was safe). I kinda did the same. When I went to a gal's place, I took a picture of the address and sent it to a friend, in case I disappeared without checking back in. And my first dates were always in a crowded place on purpose. Anyway, your post is also valuable, as it's a fair warning. We all should be on guard, that's for sure. To any noob to SA, definitely read this entire thread. It won't take longer than 30 minutes to obtain the experience of our collective years on SA.

[SavePros321]

Almost all of my SA dates later told me that they had a friend who had their back during our date (for example, their friend was close by, to make sure she was safe).Oh, you mean Jaquan and his goon squad, LOL?

Guys, all I am asking is for dudes to not be so desperate for female companionship that you bury your head in the sand and toss aside all sensibilities. Remember, when Backpage and Craigslist shut down, pimps didn't all of a sudden decide they no longer need to eat. Seeking Arrangement is very much a Pay for Play website that managed to dodge getting shut down by the Feds. Why would they not take advantage of this and flood the zone with the girls they control?

An added bonus? Men are all posting their net worth on the website for everyone to see. Even more? The John has multiple photos of his silly grinning face posted as well!

Said the Cop to the Robber: "Why did you rob the bank?

Robber: "Because that's where the money is!

[Akibono]

How often does the person not match their photos? Any other things to worry about?

[Midwestern]

How often does the person not match their photos? Any other things to worry about?I was actively on SA for about 18 months. Met almost 100 gals. No one used a fake pic, but almost everyone used their best pic that was often photoshopped, and so prepare to be a little disappointed when you meet them in person.

[Steve 9696]

While YMMV and you can surely find a gem in most age groups if you look hard enough, the following is conventional wisdom followed by my experience.

Flow of girl to woman -.

Early 20's. Very open. Experimental. Trying new things.

Late twenties. Prepping for marriage. Maybe regret? More careful.

Early thirties. Totally not open for anything. Ready to settle.

Late thirties. May open back up but with possible mommy baggage.

This has been spot on with my experience:

22-24 is the sweet spot. Had more 23 and 24 year olds than all other ages combined.

19-21 is open to the idea but too flaky. Last minute cancellation and flake outs.

Only had 2 over 24 success. All others were fails.

Oh and fail means no SNL (single night lay). My exact results since June are:

Success: 23, 23, 26, 21, 23, 24, 23, 23, 24, 27, 24, 23, 21, 24, 23, 23
Fail: 26, 32, 34

Anyhow hope this helps someone!

[The Cane]

While YMMV and you can surely find a gem in most age groups if you look hard enough, the following is conventional wisdom followed by my experience.

Flow of girl to woman -.

Early 20's. Very open. Experimental. Trying new things.

Late twenties. Prepping for marriage. Maybe regret? More careful.

Early thirties. Totally not open for anything. Ready to settle.

Late thirties. May open back up but with possible mommy baggage.You left out one group. That would be the 40+ women. Ready to drop them panties and throw them legs wide open again! Hahaha! Don't know how many 40+ women are on SA. But, I'm just saying in general LOL! Plenty of 40+ women trying to make up for "lost time" and ready to be more sexually liberated.

[Midwestern]

You left out one group. That would be the 40+ women. Ready to drop them panties and throw them legs wide open again! Hahaha! Don't know how many 40+ women are on SA. But, I'm just saying in general LOL! Plenty of 40+ women trying to make up for "lost time" and ready to be more sexually liberated.They are on SA, and they are the most hassle free. At least 5 of the two dozen gals that I had relations with on SA were in their 40's. They were all fantastic in the sack, 3 of them had great big fake boobs, and they were all also great fun to hang out with because they were closer to my age.

[Akibono]

They are on SA, and they are the most hassle free. At least 5 of the two dozen gals that I had relations with on SA were in their 40's. They were all fantastic in the sack, 3 of them had great big fake boobs, and they were all also great fun to hang out with because they were closer to my age.Been reading up on the public info on SA. I trust the info here. Either they are grossly wrong or they are distorting the numbers. I cannot believe the average SB allowance is 3 K. Plus, the amount ppm is ridiculous. If a SD can afford 3 K / month, that is 36000 a year after taxes. There just aren't that many guys who have that sort of disposable income. And if they did, they would certainly not be trolling on that site. Plus, stories of SB meeting SD who send limos and planes to pick them up are almost laughable. How many Dorian Grey's are out there? Perhaps, that creates an unrealistic expectation from the SBs. I can't imagine a person who is going to hand over 300 just to meet and talk. That does not even include the time and the expensive meals. I'm no cheap Charlie, but if you pay 400-500 per meet, that does not even include a minimum of 100 for a room and maybe another 100 for entertainment. At 700 per meet, that is not particularly good value. I can find some high end escorts in Europe for less with better attitude. I know the SBs say they are not escorts, but their emphasis on money says just the opposite. You can't have it both ways. I suspect there are a lot of desperate SBs out there at this time. Their regulars are not seeing them because they are at home with their wives and not travelling, everything is locked down, and there is no reason to put your health at risk. You have no idea if they have been isolating or seeing others. Simply not worth the risk.

[EmpireBurns]

It's a YMMV type of situation for sugar babies too. Some of these girls are worth the 3 K + but they prioritize instant gratification, so we do too. Some aren't but hey, they can all be princesses if they believe.

So I also don't believe in the average allowance stated, but there are still girls on another level who are smart enough to be patient and know how to make their way into a man's heart (read as bank account).


Been reading up on the public info on SA. I trust the info here. Either they are grossly wrong or they are distorting the numbers. I cannot believe the average SB allowance is 3 K. Plus, the amount ppm is ridiculous. If a SD can afford 3 K / month, that is 36000 a year after taxes. There just aren't that many guys who have that sort of disposable income. And if they did, they would certainly not be trolling on that site. Plus, stories of SB meeting SD who send limos and planes to pick them up are almost laughable. How many Dorian Grey's are out there? Perhaps, that creates an unrealistic expectation from the SBs. I can't imagine a person who is going to hand over 300 just to meet and talk. That does not even include the time and the expensive meals. I'm no cheap Charlie, but if you pay 400-500 per meet, that does not even include a minimum of 100 for a room and maybe another 100 for entertainment. At 700 per meet, that is not particularly good value. I can find some high end escorts in Europe for less with better attitude. I know the SBs say they are not escorts, but their emphasis on money says just the opposite. You can't have it both ways. I suspect there are a lot of desperate SBs out there at this time. Their regulars are not seeing them because they are at home with their wives and not travelling, everything is locked down, and there is no reason to put your health at risk. You have no idea if they have been isolating or seeing others. Simply not worth the risk.

[Steve 9696]

Been reading up on the public info on SA. I trust the info here. Either they are grossly wrong or they are distorting the numbers. I cannot believe the average SB allowance is 3 K. Plus, the amount ppm is ridiculous. If a SD can afford 3 K / month, that is 36000 a year after taxes. There just aren't that many guys who have that sort of disposable income. And if they did, they would certainly not be trolling on that site. Plus, stories of SB meeting SD who send limos and planes to pick them up are almost laughable. How many Dorian Grey's are out there? Perhaps, that creates an unrealistic expectation from the SBs. I can't imagine a person who is going to hand over 300 just to meet and talk. That does not even include the time and the expensive meals. I'm no cheap Charlie, but if you pay 400-500 per meet, that does not even include a minimum of 100 for a room and maybe another 100 for entertainment. At 700 per meet, that is not particularly good value. I can find some high end escorts in Europe for less with better attitude. I know the SBs say they are not escorts, but their emphasis on money says just the opposite. You can't have it both ways. I suspect there are a lot of desperate SBs out there at this time. Their regulars are not seeing them because they are at home with their wives and not travelling, everything is locked down, and there is no reason to put your health at risk. You have no idea if they have been isolating or seeing others. Simply not worth the risk.There are quite a few thoughts in this post. First surely it is a questionable idea to visit ANYONE right now. But if doing so a true SB who is low volume would be your best bet.

You can't compare value in the US to elsewhere. Value in the US is HORRIBLE. Worst in the world in my experience. I can have a better looking high performing girl in Brazil for 1/4 (or less) US prices.

BUT if you are confined to the US then SA is your best bet. You will get a longer date with a prettier girl than for the same price to a hooker. $400 is pretty standard, tho in the South I have 3 girls I can see for $300. I was able to push the later ones down once I had the first at $300.

Yes the private jet and $3000/ mo is surely rare. But does happen. A friend knows a stripper in Detroit who scored a daddy who flew her everywhere. And Melty who was a great $200 girl in London is currently touring the world clearly as an SB. So some girls do score it but it's rare.

On the $300 for platonic yeah it seems a stretch but I know a girl who's been doing dinners and getting gifts all with no sex. This won't last I don't think. She also walks on a guy for $200. He drives 4 hours to see her. LOL. No sex. So some "odd" arrangements do exist. Tho clearly the exception.

[DramaFree11]

There are quite a few thoughts in this post. First surely it is a questionable idea to visit ANYONE right now. But if doing so a true SB who is low volume would be your best bet.

You can't compare value in the US to elsewhere. Value in the US is HORRIBLE. Worst in the world in my experience. I can have a better looking high performing girl in Brazil for 1/4 (or less) US prices.

BUT if you are confined to the US then SA is your best bet. You will get a longer date with a prettier girl than for the same price to a hooker. $400 is pretty standard, tho in the South I have 3 girls I can see for $300. I was able to push the later ones down once I had the first at $300.

Yes the private jet and $3000/ mo is surely rare. But does happen. A friend knows a stripper in Detroit who scored a daddy who flew her everywhere. And Melty who was a great $200 girl in London is currently touring the world clearly as an SB. So some girls do score it but it's rare..I gave Been using SA with mixed results. The rates quoted ares correct.

1. Austin / Houston $400-500.

2. San Antonio prices are more reasonable $300-350, now that I am Austin full time San Antonio is only 1:15 drive so I have been started meeting more girls. You would think Austin would be better, but I have had much better luck in San Antonio and the girls usually better looking, makes no sense, but true. I hate Houston so I just go there for work and do not mess with those girls anymore.

I was shocked, but there are multiple guys that pay the $300-500 for PPM and there is no sex involved, not for me. Many girls have confirmed this, but those arrangements just last for a few months, from what they say. Crazy!

There are a lot of girls getting more then $3000, I would say $3000 would be minimum for anything decent. I would pay note, but there would have to be zero drama involved and most of these girls are just not capable of this.

With all this downtime from the Flu I have had a lot of time to reflect on SA. I would say more good then bad, but there is a lot of BS and Scams, but when you find a good arrangement it can be real fun. Also, I have had an issue with a lot of girls being alcoholics or use drugs heavily. This cause a way too much drama. I will probably take a small hit on my income, from the economic downturn, but I will no longer pay more then $400 and probably will be closer to $300. My main issue is I just do not have to travel to Europe, so that is kind of not practical, I just miss too much work. So I will probably use SA to fill in the gaps and stick with Tijuana and MTY.

[Midwestern]

My 2 cents based on recent posts. Yes, prices on SA are high, but you're paying for a real part time GF, not a pro that offers GFE. A lot of SBs will actually be exclusive with you. If you're not into that, then SA is not for you. SD means you're someone who either has money or is willing to splurge, otherwise we are as guilty as the scammer SBs on SA. And I did once give someone 3 k per month. She was worth it for a variety of reasons, and one reason was that she lived alone and so we stayed at her place a lot, which saved me a lot of money. I'm not rich, but NSA boinking a hottie on a regular basis is important to me, so I was willing to give her a huge portion of my disposable income. One way that I can justify it is that I know arrangements don't last too long. Eventually, she broke our arrangement because a surgeon offered her 5 k per month. Finally, many of these gals just want to enjoy the finer things in life, like trips, wining and dining, etc. , and I ended up giving no cash to about half of the SBs that I had relationships with. That said, these "freebie" gals are very hard to find, and eventually they bring drama. Anyway, all of this searching on SA takes a LOT of time, It's almost like a full time job, so I eventually quit. In the states, I now just use rubmaps. Good intel on there for most locations. Is rubmaps still operating or did it get shut down? I haven't been to the states in a couple of years.

[LeyenLouvain]

There are no fake profiles on the site, they have a fairly large team that weeds them out. Every new member request is checked manually by a personThank you for posting. Do they do any verification on the man. Location / salary / age / photo / Facebook / Linkedin?

I might be tempted to use a lookalike photo, incorrect date of birth, incorrect location so wouldn't want them to check these things.

[DramaFree11]

Thank you for posting. Do they do any verification on the man. Location / salary / age / photo / Facebook / Linkedin?

I might be tempted to use a lookalike photo, incorrect date of birth, incorrect location so wouldn't want them to check these things.They say, that the screen, but many fake profiles, so always assume worst.

[Midwestern]

Thank you for posting. Do they do any verification on the man. Location / salary / age / photo / Facebook / Linkedin?

I might be tempted to use a lookalike photo, incorrect date of birth, incorrect location so wouldn't want them to check these things.I think almost everyone uses incorrect date of birth and slightly incorrect location. Most girls over 30 will shave some years off their age. Most guys over mid-40's will also shave some years off their age too. From my experience, almost everyone lies about location and uses a nearby location. Most guys also lie about their wealth. Most guys also exaggerate their height. Many girls lie about their body shape. Some gals lie about their education. Almost every gal will use either a photoshopped pic, or a pic that is from some years ago. This is why you need to do a meet and greet. Hoping for instant gratification is not what this site is supposed to be about (but you can get lucky of course). Finally, as for posting a fake pic, well, that one is a toughie. I don't think guys need to post any pic because we are the ones paying them, not other way around. If the girl won't agree to meet you without seeing your pic, just move on to the next gal. Using a fake pic may be rejected by the SA admins anyway, especially if you use a pic from the internet.

[Blue Swede]

I think almost everyone uses incorrect date of birth and slightly incorrect location. Most girls over 30 will shave some years off their age. Most guys over mid-40's will also shave some years off their age too. From my experience, almost everyone lies about location and uses a nearby location. Most guys also lie about their wealth. Most guys also exaggerate their height. Many girls lie about their body shape. Some gals lie about their education. Almost every gal will use either a photoshopped pic, or a pic that is from some years ago. This is why you need to do a meet and greet. Hoping for instant gratification is not what this site is supposed to be about (but you can get lucky of course). Finally, as for posting a fake pic, well, that one is a toughie. I don't think guys need to post any pic because we are the ones paying them, not other way around. If the girl won't agree to meet you without seeing your pic, just move on to the next gal. Using a fake pic may be rejected by the SA admins anyway, especially if you use a pic from the internet.In my experience, you are quite correct.

We all tweak information and pictures a bit, in the direction needed.

I use to move the discussion to Whatsapp or similar ASAP and after that, I use to send the girl a picture I shoot, holding a hand written note saying for example "Hi Cindy! Where "Cindy" is her name (of course) and asking her to do the same.

I happened only once that the girl refused to do that.

[SavePros321]

I think almost everyone uses incorrect date of birth and slightly incorrect location. Most girls over 30 will shave some years off their age. Most guys over mid-40's will also shave some years off their age too. From my experience, almost everyone lies about location and uses a nearby location. Most guys also lie about their wealth. Most guys also exaggerate their height. Many girls lie about their body shape. Some gals lie about their education. Almost every gal will use either a photoshopped pic, or a pic that is from some years ago. This is why you need to do a meet and greet. Hoping for instant gratification is not what this site is supposed to be about (but you can get lucky of course). Finally, as for posting a fake pic, well, that one is a toughie. I don't think guys need to post any pic because we are the ones paying them, not other way around. If the girl won't agree to meet you without seeing your pic, just move on to the next gal. Using a fake pic may be rejected by the SA admins anyway, especially if you use a pic from the internet.Good post. If you want to give a general idea of what you look like, you can always just blur or blackout your face using apps like Blur Photo (iPhone). As I mentioned before, it's like how escorts used to hide their faces on an escort site; they have the goods that you want. On SB websites, it is the man that has the goods (money) that the women want (especially now since a lot of them are or will be out of work due to all that is going on). You as the man have the upper hand in this situation. Use it to your advantage.

[SavePros321]

In my experience, you are quite correct.

We all tweak information and pictures a bit, in the direction needed.

I use to move the discussion to Whatsapp or similar ASAP and after that, I use to send the girl a picture I shoot, holding a hand written note saying for example "Hi Cindy! Where "Cindy" is her name (of course) and asking her to do the same.

I happened only once that the girl refused to do that.I always tell them that in order to see what I look like they will have to video chat with me either via FaceTime or something like Google Duo (does Whatsapp have video chat?

Don't fall for exchanging photos via text. She could just send you a fake photo, and if you sent a real photo of you then you look like a chump. Video chat is the best verification tool we've been blessed with in this lifetime.

[Steve 9696]

In my experience, you are quite correct.

We all tweak information and pictures a bit, in the direction needed.

I use to move the discussion to Whatsapp or similar ASAP and after that, I use to send the girl a picture I shoot, holding a hand written note saying for example "Hi Cindy! Where "Cindy" is her name (of course) and asking her to do the same.

I happened only once that the girl refused to do that.Clearly this helps establish they are legit. But for those that need to be discreet, having a picture of you holding a girls name floating around is discretion suicide. So I would be cautious with this method.

I personally have had no problem with a girl not matching her pics in my 20 ish dates to date. But I should say the girls I meet with are very "real" and would never meet up without the guy sending as pic. In fact I can usually tell an escort because she doesn't ask for pics as early as a fresh girl would. But clearly no pic works for midwestern so YMMV. And of course I'm trying to get 23 year olds and they have a ton of options.

My pic advice is use a public facing pic from like Facebook or somewhere, but TAKE A PICTURE of it and send that. That way if there is ever a leak you have plausible deniability because it's public and yet untraceable because you took a snap of it and it's a whole different set of pixels than what Facebook and Google image indexer has.

[Midwestern]

Steve's advice about pics is a very good one. But definitely only show your pic when it is requested. Don't just display it for anyone to see. I also had a pic on my bio, but only showed it when I was sure the person was not someone that I knew from work or from my circle of friends. It would be embarrassing if my coworker or my friend's daughter saw my pic on that site. I realize that you can look at their pics to make sure they are someone you don't know, but you should ask additional questions to make sure you don't run in the same circles. I had one date that actually used to work for the same company that I worked for, and so we did know many people in common. That said, one thing to keep in mind is that eventually, any regular SB will find out your true identity somehow. This was another reason why I eventually quit the site.


Clearly this helps establish they are legit. But for those that need to be discreet, having a picture of you holding a girls name floating around is discretion suicide. So I would be cautious with this method.

I personally have had no problem with a girl not matching her pics in my 20 ish dates to date. But I should say the girls I meet with are very "real" and would never meet up without the guy sending as pic. In fact I can usually tell an escort because she doesn't ask for pics as early as a fresh girl would. But clearly no pic works for midwestern so YMMV. And of course I'm trying to get 23 year olds and they have a ton of options.

My pic advice is use a public facing pic from like Facebook or somewhere, but TAKE A PICTURE of it and send that. That way if there is ever a leak you have plausible deniability because it's public and yet untraceable because you took a snap of it and it's a whole different set of pixels than what Facebook and Google image indexer has..

[Pessimist]

Finally going on my first date. I find the process quite awkward since I am new to this. My main concern is not being stuck with a skanky ho or being robbed. In the states, you have to worry more about scams. We agreed to meet at a place for a bite or drink and then go up to the hotel. How is payment typically handled? I presume you pay at the beginning, but I am a bit concerned that the gal will grab the money and run and I will have to face her pimp. But I also understand that the girl does not want to be stiffed too. I never have problems with escorts because they know the drill. I am going to put the money out and she can take it when she leaves. I think that is a good compromise. What do you think are some risks I am not aware of? I am single so I am not worried about them knowing my name, but I am a bit concerned about my car since plates can easily be traced. Don't want strangers showing up at my place. Not cool.Sorry, was not checking this thread as there is not a whole lot of traffic. I usually spend most of my time in the German FKK threads. But I am not sure I agree with your implication about pimp. I don't think I had any arrangement with a prostitute. I tend to meet them at least once or even multiple times for lunches or drinks / coffee etc. I think you will get to know what type of girl she is, and whether she is a prostitute. Yes, they have sex for money but prostitute is not what I would call them in that they are not ready to have sex with multiple partners they do not get attracted to, just for the money.

Anyway, except once or twice, I have never given money to the girl before sex. When I did give the money upfront, it was on the road in a different city from my home town, and I was turned off and never saw her again. Most do not have any problem, and almost none of them count the money either. There is an implicit trust. By the same token, I do not ask for a detailed list of sex acts she will be OK with or not OK with. This is not going to the room with a FKK girl, and asking if she will kiss, or provide BBBJ in the 50 E price. I don't even think I asked them if they are OK with sex. When we meet and talk, and she asks what I am looking for, I will say I am hoping to get to know her more and perhaps we can spend some quiet time in the next meet and I suggest we can meet for a second lunch and go to a hotel. She will understand what I have in mind.

Also, is it so easy to trace you with your plates? I thought only Law enforcement had access to that info.

[Pessimist]

How often does the person not match their photos? Any other things to worry about?Photos match. Some look worse than their photos, but a whole bunch of girls also look much better than their photos. These are not professional girls and don't have carefully photoshopped pics. One of my girls had really GND pics on the site and she was much better in person. I told her as we were leaving the room that she looks much better than her photos and she texted me later that night I made her week with my compliment. She is a pretty simple girl, not a lot of pretense. On our next meet, I took a photo of her with my iPhone and texted her saying if she continued to be on the site, she should use it. Once I had a Ukrainian girl who was in my city for a few months of exchange school. She was absolutely stunning in person but her photos were just blah.

[Pessimist]

You left out one group. That would be the 40+ women. Ready to drop them panties and throw them legs wide open again! Hahaha! Don't know how many 40+ women are on SA. But, I'm just saying in general LOL! Plenty of 40+ women trying to make up for "lost time" and ready to be more sexually liberated.Yeah, there are quite a few. I tend to do my searches with specific age, body type, ethnicity and other attributes but if I relaxed the criteria, the number of seeking women tends to increase more than ten fold. Normally, I have on any given night, roughly 120 to 180 women with strict criteria online at the moment I am (less than 25, slim / curvy, white or Latino, etc). This is in my home town.

[Pessimist]

I have been SA for a number of years. I disagree with the pricing info presented. First, I am patient. I indicate my interest to hundreds of girls, especially because I am seeking white or Latino girls in the 20-25 group that are slim and reasonably pretty faces. I tend to chat for sometime to get to know them. I'm sure some are lying and BS'ing but it is easy to get a sense of if they are total liars. A girl can't tell me she is studying Finance or Chemistry or Political Science at the local university in town and for me not to sniff out if she is a prostitute instead who never finished high school. I am not one of those who interrogate FKK girls when they say they are Spanish or Italian whether they are actually that, or Romies as they most likely are. But truth matters somewhat on SA. Anyway, between chatting on the site, texting later on phone, and meeting for a lunch, I get a good sense of the girl. I happen to be in a reasonably inexpensive city. Still large enough. The range is always 200 to 300. The only times I went above 300 was when I traveled outside my city, especially in the expensive ones like Boston. I gave the stunning Ukrainian girl 250 for example, and I spent nearly 6 hours each time we met. A couple of hours of sex, and the rest in restaurants, drinks etc. She was 22 and absolutely one of the most wonderful lovers I have ever had, true GFE. Unfortunately, she went back to her home after a few weeks but those were special weeks for me. Yes, many girls do ask for more but I politely decline. Some come back with a better offer, some may walk away. That's alright. The key to SA is to be patient. I cannot overemphasize that. You have all the time in the world. And there are plenty of girls. No single girl is a must do girl. Be polite, be firm, be prepared to walk away. With some girls I spent multiple platonic dates and felt really nice about them, and then prices did not match and I had to walk away. In those situations it can feel terrible because you feel like you made a connection. But I say, be firm and walk away. Stay with your pricing discipline.

I have never given any cash for a platonic date like first time meet and greet coffee. This is again one of those things I am very firm on.

The thing is that in your first few months, this can be frustrating. You may have a sense of urgency, that you did not close enough deals so to speak. Don't rush. You will live for a long time (god and corona willing). After you have been on SA for multiple years, you will accumulate a large number of contacts and things become easier.

Right now, things are horrible in the US. In the last few weeks, millions are losing jobs. Sugar babes are in absolute panic. I am being very cautious and not looking to meet, as I am not that young anymore and could be risky. Some sugar babes are also scared a bit to meet. But the quantity and quality of sugar babes seeking has exploded up. Even if I was not reading newspapers, I feel like I could have read the economic state of union in the country by looking at the sugar babe site LOL.

[Pessimist]

Steve's advice about pics is a very good one. But definitely only show your pic when it is requested. Don't just display it for anyone to see. I also had a pic on my bio, but only showed it when I was sure the person was not someone that I knew from work or from my circle of friends. It would be embarrassing if my coworker or my friend's daughter saw my pic on that site. I realize that you can look at their pics to make sure they are someone you don't know, but you should ask additional questions to make sure you don't run in the same circles. I had one date that actually used to work for the same company that I worked for, and so we did know many people in common. That said, one thing to keep in mind is that eventually, any regular SB will find out your true identity somehow. This was another reason why I eventually quit the site..Hi.

I'm curious about your sentence that any SB will eventually find your true identity. Why do you feel that way and did that happen to you. You didn't say *a few SBs may* find your identity, you said *any regular SB will*.

Did this happen to you in your own arrangements?

I had several dozens of arrangements over a few years, some lasting just a few meets and some lasted many months but don't believe that my identity was ever compromised. I do have a lot to lose as I am married and it can be expensive and painful in many ways for my identity to come out but touch wood that hasn't happened yet.

[Midwestern]

Yes, several SBs eventually discovered my true identity. Here's how. (1) Sometimes, when I was drunk, I would use my real name accidentally, especially when I was telling a story that happened to me. I think most people don't realize how often they refer to themselves in the third person. (2) One time, on the TV of the hotel, it had my name on it, something like, "Welcome Midwestern. We hope you enjoy your stay. " (3) The bartender or waitress, when returning my credit card, would say, "Thank you Mr. Midwestern. Hope you have a nice rest of the evening. Please come again. " Jeezus, this happened a lot.

(4) You may run into someone that knows you. That happened once. (5) One time, when I opened a new social app on my phone, it was flooded with possible contacts. Apparently, one of my SBs also got a message saying that "Your contact Midwestern has joined blah blah blah. Would you like to connect to him?" I have no idea how that happened, but I guess apps can speak to each other. I was using a different app to communicate with her. (6) Eventually, you reveal too much about yourself, so a clever gal can start putting pieces together and do an internet search. I know this is true because several of my SBs viewed my LinkedIn profile. I asked one of them about it, and she said that it was easy to figure out who I was.


Hi.

I'm curious about your sentence that any SB will eventually find your true identity. Why do you feel that way and did that happen to you. You didn't say *a few SBs may* find your identity, you said *any regular SB will*.

Did this happen to you in your own arrangements?

I had several dozens of arrangements over a few years, some lasting just a few meets and some lasted many months but don't believe that my identity was ever compromised. I do have a lot to lose as I am married and it can be expensive and painful in many ways for my identity to come out but touch wood that hasn't happened yet..

[Pessimist]

Yes, several SBs eventually discovered my true identity. Here's how. (1) Sometimes, when I was drunk, I would use my real name accidentally, especially when I was telling a story that happened to me. I think most people don't realize how often they refer to themselves in the third person. (2) One time, on the TV of the hotel, it had my name on it, something like, "Welcome Midwestern. We hope you enjoy your stay. " (3) The bartender or waitress, when returning my credit card, would say, "Thank you Mr. Midwestern. Hope you have a nice rest of the evening. Please come again. " Jeezus, this happened a lot.

(4) You may run into someone that knows you. That happened once. (5) One time, when I opened a new social app on my phone, it was flooded with possible contacts. Apparently, one of my SBs also got a message saying that "Your contact Midwestern has joined blah blah blah. Would you like to connect to him?" I have no idea how that happened, but I guess apps can speak to each other. I was using a different app to communicate with her. (6) Eventually, you reveal too much about yourself, so a clever gal can start putting pieces together and do an internet search. I know this is true because several of my SBs viewed my LinkedIn profile. I asked one of them about it, and she said that it was easy to figure out who I was..That's unfortunate. I have been quite careful to hide my identity so far. Not sure if any one figured me out but if they did, they have not told me yet. Recently, I met this girl for a pre arrangement get to know lunch. As I signed the check and was leaving, she claimed she wanted to sit there for a few more minutes and look at her messages and I should leave. I was not happy because I had signed the credit card bill and had my name on it and she could easily figure me out. I walked up to the waitress a few tables from me and asked her to take away my signed check right away and as soon as I got into my car, I blocked that girl on both my phone and SA. Bye bye, don't need any such risks.

Some girls have voluntarily disclosed their real identities. I met a few sugar babes in their own homes and fucked on their own beds. But I made it clear they can expect no such reciprocity from me.

[Steve 9696]

Yes, several SBs eventually discovered my true identity. Here's how. (1) Sometimes, when I was drunk, I would use my real name accidentally, especially when I was telling a story that happened to me. I think most people don't realize how often they refer to themselves in the third person. (2) One time, on the TV of the hotel, it had my name on it, something like, "Welcome Midwestern. We hope you enjoy your stay. " (3) The bartender or waitress, when returning my credit card, would say, "Thank you Mr. Midwestern. Hope you have a nice rest of the evening. Please come again. " Jeezus, this happened a lot.

(4) You may run into someone that knows you. That happened once. (5) One time, when I opened a new social app on my phone, it was flooded with possible contacts. Apparently, one of my SBs also got a message saying that "Your contact Midwestern has joined blah blah blah. Would you like to connect to him?" I have no idea how that happened, but I guess apps can speak to each other. I was using a different app to communicate with her. (6) Eventually, you reveal too much about yourself, so a clever gal can start putting pieces together and do an internet search. I know this is true because several of my SBs viewed my LinkedIn profile. I asked one of them about it, and she said that it was easy to figure out who I was.

.These are all real risks. The social accounts one is deadly if you ever use your real phone with them (never do of course). I only discovered this recently. Those apps look through your contacts and suggest friends based on that. I was surprised to learn 5+ girls real names when I installed Facebook on my burner phone recently. Plus two via instagram and one via Snapchat.

Obviously I have no interest and don't even tell them since they will need to disown you at that point.

I do have my first SB inviting me to her place which is nice. I don't see how they risk it but I guess you take a lot of life risks at 23. We're all lucky to be alive I'd wager.

Oh and here is an easy mistake to make! I was curious to check out one girl who clearly was a white color professional not my usual hairdresser. So I looked at her linked in. Damn. Only realized after I did it I probably just outed myself, cuz she’ll see I looked at her profile. Damn. Got to be more careful.

[Akibono]

These are all real risks. The social accounts one is deadly if you ever use your real phone with them (never do of course). I only discovered this recently. Those apps look through your contacts and suggest friends based on that. I was surprised to learn 5+ girls real names when I installed Facebook on my burner phone recently. Plus two via instagram and one via Snapchat.

Obviously I have no interest and don't even tell them since they will need to disown you at that point.

I do have my first SB inviting me to her place which is nice. I don't see how they risk it but I guess you take a lot of life risks at 23. We're all lucky to be alive I'd wager.

Oh and here is an easy mistake to make! I was curious to check out one girl who clearly was a white color professional not my usual hairdresser. So I looked at her linked in. Damn. Only realized after I did it I probably just outed myself, cuz shell see I looked at her profile. Damn. Got to be more careful.There is a lot of ways she can find your name if you are not careful. Put the name, geographical location, and approx age, and you are easily unmasked. Even more so if you own property. A few dollars on any of the search agencies will uncover lots about you. I found out a sb's real name by a money transfer app. With that fact and approx. Location, I actually found out her address without her knowing.

Anyone can request a DMV record by a license plate. This is how you find hit and run drivers. The DMV will give out the information and will notify you who requested the info, but that person could just be her boyfriend. If you want to remain anon, you have to be very prepared, and it will cost you. Hiding behind a Corp. Is effective.

[Midwestern]

As I outlined in my previous post, yes, I totally agree with you that it is easy for the gal to know your real identity. It is almost impossible to hide it if you are going to spend quality time (e. G. , dinners, drinks, site-seeing, shows, etc.) with any SB. If you are just meeting for naughty fun only, then maybe it's possible. To me, it was just unbelievable how many of them viewed my LinkedIn profile, which meant that eventually they figured out my real name. As I sit here typing, I am counting the number of SBs that I know 100% for sure eventually figured out my real identity and it's 9 out of 23. And 2 of them gave me big drama later unfortunately. Maybe the only ones that didn't know my real identity were the real losers, like the uneducated drug addicts. As for the SBs, almost all of them didn't care if I knew who they really were. Most of them just told me their real name, which I was able to confirm later using an internet search. I think for them, because they are not pros, they need to feel some emotional connection with whoever they are boffing, which is why they didn't mind letting me know their real identity.


There is a lot of ways she can find your name if you are not careful. Put the name, geographical location, and approx age, and you are easily unmasked. Even more so if you own property. A few dollars on any of the search agencies will uncover lots about you. I found out a sb's real name by a money transfer app. With that fact and approx. Location, I actually found out her address without her knowing.

Anyone can request a DMV record by a license plate. This is how you find hit and run drivers. The DMV will give out the information and will notify you who requested the info, but that person could just be her boyfriend. If you want to remain anon, you have to be very prepared, and it will cost you. Hiding behind a Corp. Is effective..

[Pessimist]

I always give cash, don't use any money transfer apps. I don't know how many tracked me down with my car plates but if they did, none of them followed me later on nor gave me any drama, didn't notice any peeping Toms into my LinkedIn. Perhaps I have just been lucky or careful or both. But this is over several dozens of meets over the years, so it is not just a coincidence. In general, almost all of my arrangements have been pleasant experiences. Yes, a few were mildly annoying, some stood me up, some played hard to get etc but that is to be expected. Some told me they do weed, and 420 friendly is fairly commonly listed in their bios but I don't think I have been with too obviously drugged up zombies. On the whole, my experiences have been quite positive and I'm not a shill for the site or anything. If you are not comfortable, or too concerned about having your identity blown, yes stick to FKKs or some other sex tourist spots. Only you would know how much risk is acceptable to you.

[Midwestern]

I always give cash, don't use any money transfer apps. I don't know how many tracked me down with my car plates but if they did, none of them followed me later on nor gave me any drama, didn't notice any peeping Toms into my LinkedIn. Perhaps I have just been lucky or careful or both. But this is over several dozens of meets over the years, so it is not just a coincidence. In general, almost all of my arrangements have been pleasant experiences. Yes, a few were mildly annoying, some stood me up, some played hard to get etc but that is to be expected. Some told me they do weed, and 420 friendly is fairly commonly listed in their bios but I don't think I have been with too obviously drugged up zombies. On the whole, my experiences have been quite positive and I'm not a shill for the site or anything. If you are not comfortable, or too concerned about having your identity blown, yes stick to FKKs or some other sex tourist spots. Only you would know how much risk is acceptable to you.I agree. I had great times with some SBs, and many of them were way hot and outside of my league normally. But I eventually quit the site because it was taking up a lot of my time, as it was almost like a full time job searching for SBs. I eventually decided that for me a quick romp in an AMP was the best way to go while in the states. But that said, I haven't been to the states in a couple of years, so I no longer what the best options are for the states anymore.

[PrickPriority]

I've been following this discussion and I thank you all for sharing valuable info. I'm fairly new to it all, and I've had a couple of casual arrangements. I'm just curious, from what you've observed, what are the chances of finding a truly exclusive sugar arrangement? Or is that type of thing all in the past now?

[Pessimist]

I've been following this discussion and I thank you all for sharing valuable info. I'm fairly new to it all, and I've had a couple of casual arrangements. I'm just curious, from what you've observed, what are the chances of finding a truly exclusive sugar arrangement? Or is that type of thing all in the past now?I have never asked for nor sought exclusivity. But in my view, many girls did not have more than one arrangement at a given time anyway. Many have their normal life and were supplementing their normal income with a little extra from being a sugar babe. If you want a girl to be exclusive to you, you should definitely ask. If the girl is willing to have sex with you, she will seriously consider your request. She may use your request to extract a bit more money from you but I don't think she would dump you just because you asked for exclusivity. In fact many girls even say in their profiles that they want monogamous arrangements.

[Midwestern]

I've been following this discussion and I thank you all for sharing valuable info. I'm fairly new to it all, and I've had a couple of casual arrangements. I'm just curious, from what you've observed, what are the chances of finding a truly exclusive sugar arrangement? Or is that type of thing all in the past now?I met a few that were treating dates as possible one-offs and so I treated those dates the same way. But for most of the gals, they wanted only one SD. Of course, if you only see them a couple of times a month, then they'll look for another SD, just like any normal GF would look for a new BF if she feels unwanted.

[Pessimist]

What a difference 6 weeks make?

The number of really pretty girls that are saying "lost my job due to quarantine, will do anything for some financial help" has gone up exponentially, almost as fast as the virus infections did. LOL.

[Romeo Joe]

I have been using that site for about 3 years now mostly in philly erea tons of college girls on there and they are legit I went ti their dorms LOL the average price I'm getting is 300 but I do get 200 ones for a really cute 19 to 23 yr old college cutie when I hit 24 to 39 year olds they push for 400 up they been in the game and know what's up I have gotten free ones on there from lonely girls who want a semi decent boyfriend also. NYC erea start at 400 up for a girl that's a 7 up I have gotten models at that price had one from England was here for photo shoots Saw all the work and took her to the photo shoot also.

I travel the world to monger but in the USA SA is hands down the best.

[Member #4665]

How much are the girls in Berlin and the rest of Germany usually asking for a date on seeking arrangement? Obviously now is not a good time to date for health reasons but how much Were the girls asking for before the Corona crisis?

In Berlin, Barcelona, and London it's already possible For locals to get a date Not using seeking arrangement for a few hours for 150-200 euros. And in Montral It cost pretty much the same 300 Canadian dollars Which Equals approximately US Dollars $214. Some girls on Seeking arrangement may actually be a little bit more expensive But some girls have lower prices too .

[DramaFree11]

I have been using that site for about 3 years now mostly in philly erea tons of college girls on there and they are legit I went ti their dorms LOL the average price I'm getting is 300 but I do get 200 ones for a really cute 19 to 23 yr old college cutie when I hit 24 to 39 year olds they push for 400 up they been in the game and know what's up I have gotten free ones on there from lonely girls who want a semi decent boyfriend also. NYC erea start at 400 up for a girl that's a 7 up I have gotten models at that price had one from England was here for photo shoots Saw all the work and took her to the photo shoot also.

I travel the world to monger but in the USA SA is hands down the best.I am thinking about getting back on in Austin and San Antonio. I will only pay $300, moving forward, but I will wait for restaurants to open up. I am not worried about the Virus. I prefer the first meeting to be in public for obvious reasons.

I am having a lot of success in MYY, meeting some great girls.

[Pessimist]

How much are the girls in Berlin and the rest of Germany usually asking for a date on seeking arrangement? Obviously now is not a good time to date for health reasons but how much Were the girls asking for before the Corona crisis?

In Berlin, Barcelona, and London it's already possible For locals to get a date Not using seeking arrangement for a few hours for 150-200 euros. And in Montral It cost pretty much the same 300 Canadian dollars Which Equals approximately US Dollars $214. Some girls on Seeking arrangement may actually be a little bit more expensive But some girls have lower prices too.Prices in London were pretty high. It being an expensive city, even just OK looking girls gave high quotes. I ended up not taking any meets.

In Germany and Spain, I was able to obtain meets for 200 Euros or a bit less. In itself that is not too cheap, as local fuck houses and bordellos are able to provide sessions at that price or even less. But the sugar babe sessions were longer, in my own hotel room, and included unlimited DFK, ball licking and other such things and I was happy with the quality. Another thing I enjoy in own hotel room is a nice fresh shower together. A few girls let me do AO fuck in shower which is also a huge positive.

Prices may be a bit less now given the tough economic conditions. I can easily imagine that many girls are desperate for money. If you didnot see a big dent in personal fortune due to stock markets dip, your money will go much farther these days than even 3 months ago.

[Midwestern]

At pessimist. I have seen this expression AO fuck, but I never 100% know what it meant. Adults only? Anal only?


Prices in London were pretty high. It being an expensive city, even just OK looking girls gave high quotes. I ended up not taking any meets.

In Germany and Spain, I was able to obtain meets for 200 Euros or a bit less. In itself that is not too cheap, as local fuck houses and bordellos are able to provide sessions at that price or even less. But the sugar babe sessions were longer, in my own hotel room, and included unlimited DFK, ball licking and other such things and I was happy with the quality. Another thing I enjoy in own hotel room is a nice fresh shower together. A few girls let me do AO fuck in shower which is also a huge positive.

Prices may be a bit less now given the tough economic conditions. I can easily imagine that many girls are desperate for money. If you didnot see a big dent in personal fortune due to stock markets dip, your money will go much farther these days than even 3 months ago..

[Steve 9696]

At pessimist. I have seen this expression AO fuck, but I never 100% know what it meant. Adults only? Anal only?

.It's a German phrase. It means bareback fucking. Short for two German words that start with A and O but they escape me as I don't speak German.

[Pessimist]

At pessimist. I have seen this expression AO fuck, but I never 100% know what it meant. Adults only? Anal only?.Sorry, it is an expression I picked up on German FKK. It means sex without condom. I would never take such a chance with a prostitute but have done with a few sugar babes.

[Pessimist]

Forgot to say, AO. Alles ohne, IE all without.

[Jimmy Boy 99]

It's a German phrase. It means bareback fucking. Short for two German words that start with A and O but they escape me as I don't speak German.Alles ohn: everything without.

[Midwestern]

Steve and Jimmy Boy, thanks for the enlightenment. Speaking of AO, that's another benefit of SA, IMHO. Since these gals are not pros, the risks associated with AO are less, especially if you and your SB are exclusive, which is what I often aim for. Incidentally, I have discovered that more gals are willing to do AO after these lockdowns. Well, that's been true in Shanghai, where things are almost back to normal. Some MP gals are even willing to do AO at their shops, because they are desperate for money. I am torn about this, of course. I know that no pussy is worth the risk, but I just love the feeling of AO and it's hard to go back to covered if one has been doing AO on occasion.

[Midwestern]

Sorry, it is an expression I picked up on German FKK. It means sex without condom. I would never take such a chance with a prostitute but have done with a few sugar babes.Yeah, this is another appealing aspect of SA. Being able to bareback. These days, I have almost no interest in CFS.

[PrickPriority]

I have never asked for nor sought exclusivity. But in my view, many girls did not have more than one arrangement at a given time anyway. Many have their normal life and were supplementing their normal income with a little extra from being a sugar babe. If you want a girl to be exclusive to you, you should definitely ask. If the girl is willing to have sex with you, she will seriously consider your request. She may use your request to extract a bit more money from you but I don't think she would dump you just because you asked for exclusivity. In fact many girls even say in their profiles that they want monogamous arrangements.
I met a few that were treating dates as possible one-offs and so I treated those dates the same way. But for most of the gals, they wanted only one SD. Of course, if you only see them a couple of times a month, then they'll look for another SD, just like any normal GF would look for a new BF if she feels unwanted.I see. Thank you. Also given the chance to make more money, I don't think many of them would go for one SD. BBFS is one of my motivations for the monogamous arrangements but mainly I just don't want to worry about catching anything right now. Looking to turn my wishful thinking into action maybe next month, but I bet I'll have to rummage through a lot more useless profiles because of the chaos.

[MoneySign]

I've been following and gathering info from this thread for many weeks as I've been learning the ropes of SA. I have also read some reviews about other sites like Sugardaddie, SecretBenefit and WhatsYourPrice. I think WYP and SA are owned by the same owner. Has any of you tried those ones out? SA seems to be the most expensive one.

I'm a newbie to this kind of arrangement thing. My understanding is that getting into a relationship with a babe on SA is kind of like renting a GF for lack of better words. Right? As I read it somewhere, in an ideal arrangement, you and your date would be like in a real GF / BF relationship only when you're together. When you're apart, you live separate lives and respect each other privacy. It's like she's playing a GF role when you two spend time together. Is that how you characterize it?

With that in mind, when you're having fun together with your SA 'GF', wouldn't you intimately involved in DFK, BBBJ, even bb in everything as if you're in a real romantic relationship? Yes? That would be a great incentive of finding someone from SA as if she's your 'exclusive' GF that you can do bb with. Otherwise, it would be better off to find an escort or visit FKK clubs. Do you see it that way? Have you guys been with an SA girl who would not allow DFK or bb all the way?


Sorry, it is an expression I picked up on German FKK. It means sex without condom. I would never take such a chance with a prostitute but have done with a few sugar babes.

Since these gals are not pros, the risks associated with AO are less, especially if you and your SB are exclusive, which is what I often aim for.
I'm curious if you made sure that she's on some kind of birth control or asked her to take the morning after pills or something. Otherwise, wouldn't you worry that if she ends up getting pregnant, she would go after you for child support? As you may have followed the news, Hunter Biden got sued for child support by a stripper because he got her pregnant.


Oh and I do agree with u though that real SA girls are not willing to fuck a fat slob for money. In fact the moment it smells vaguely like sex for money u are done. You have to have at least decent looks and some game if u wanna close the hotties and they wont meet u without a pic. I would never post on SA but will text an unsearchable pic after we are comfy.Did you imply that if a guy is unattractive or below average look, he would have no luck on SA with a young college hottie even if he is highly successful with a lot of cash laying around? That would suck. In an FKK, you can be a fat slob and can still fuck a 8 or above. It's not like that on SA? I thought the SA ladies have an implicit understanding (without saying or admitting) that they exchange intimacy for gift $. No?


There is a lot of ways she can find your name if you are not careful. Put the name, geographical location, and approx age, and you are easily unmasked. Even more so if you own property.


I totally agree with you that it is easy for the gal to know your real identity. It is almost impossible to hide it if you are going to spend quality time (e. G. , dinners, drinks, site-seeing, shows, etc.) with any SB. If you are just meeting for naughty fun only, then maybe it's possible. To me, it was just unbelievable how many of them viewed my LinkedIn profile, which meant that eventually they figured out my real name.I understand perfectly that if you're married or in a committed relationship, you want to keep your SA activities secret. I got that. On the other hand, if you're not married, single without dependents, not in any kind of relationship, and not famous, what's the down side of letting your SA girls know who you are? In that case, why would you be so paranoid about that? Are you afraid of being judged or being robbed? I assume you would never bring her home, and she would not know where you live anyway. Am I too naive? Regarding to LinkedIn, you can disable profile view for any member who is not within your network. You have control over that.


But definitely only show your pic when it is requested. Don't just display it for anyone to see. I also had a pic on my bio, but only showed it when I was sure the person was not someone that I knew from work or from my circle of friends. It would be embarrassing if my coworker or my friend's daughter saw my pic on that site. If your coworkers recognize you on SA, then they can be just as guilty or embarrassed (or whatever adjective you have in mind) as you're by being on that site to begin with. Agree? You may be stigmatized, judged, or embarrassed for being on SA by them just as much as they would be by you since you're all on the same site. It goes both way. Doesn't it? Just like the old saying goes, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. That's how I see it.


In my city, there are so many fakes and flakes on SA. If you hit up white girls in the 18-25 range with attractive photos and slim bodies, only a small percent even respond back.That made me wonder. You mean white girls in that age range are mostly faked or have higher expectation, demand, or requirement? Would it be very likely that these girls select their potential SDs based on certain physical attributes such as age, ethnicity, height, look, but NOT just based on the SD's spending power which is the whole concept of SA? It's pretty much a two way street sort of thing. Right? If the ladies are that selective because they get too many messages, that tells me that there are more men than women on SA which is opposite from what SA has advertised for. What's your observation?


So I often hope for instant chemistry, so that we can just waltz to the hotel room, so sometimes I roll the dice and book a room for the first date.


If I am on the road and already have a hotel, I can ask the girl to meet at my hotel.I can not imagine any intelligent college educated girl would go to the room upon first meet. If she is truly a regular girl and not a hardened pro, I just can not believe she would go to the room with a guy whom she just met on the first date regardless of how the chemistry turns out to be. A decent girl would not just do that. I have a feeling that some SA ladies are probably escorts. In fact, I believe even more that many are probably professional SBs who use the SA site for making money as an ongoing part-time job to supplement their incomes. They're technically not escorts per se, but they are professional SBs. There is a slight distinction here. Wouldn't you agree?


Men are all posting their net worth on the website for everyone to see.Come on dude! You can not possibly believe those net worth. LOL. I'll take it with a grain of salt. I bet most college educated girls won't take that literally either. When I sign up, I'll probably post my net worth as if I'm a millionaire even though I'm not. LOL.

[Pessimist]

Moneysign. Wow, so many questions I like it that while asking your questions, you wrote up your own synopsis of the thread reports. Good job.

I have used SecretBenefit and Sugardaddie. I liked the quality, quantity, and pricing structure of SA the most and have stayed with them for the most amount of time. Occasionally I have delayed renewal when my 3 month subscription ran out, but have always come back inside a few weeks. I don't like the SecretBenefit fee structure, and have felt that the quality was lacking and the good ones were already known to me through SA. Keep in mind that many girls may register on multiple sites. The benefits of being on multiple sites for them is obvious but for the guys it is deminimus as we will end up paying subscription fee many times over and yet will not see a vastly increased selection.

Also, sugar babe economics are vastly different from an FKK club. I prefer FKKs with 200 pretty girls. It is a place to take 25 fuck sessions in a week vacation, cum 15 times and do a lot of 50 Euro sessions. When you were a kid and went to the candy store, you probably wanted to bite a piece of each type of candy. That is what an FKK is for me. Sample as many sluts as possible. Sugar babe sites are different. A large amount of work goes into it before you ever get to fuck a girl. There are endless number of clicks through sites, texting back and forth (with those who reply back — more than 50% of the girls never reply back to your initial text, because they are receiving literally 100 messages a day, promising the moon and stars from a lot of guys, probably many guys are fakes and cheats themselves), eventually agreeing to meet for some sort of get to know type drink / lunch, and if you can come to a good agreement then the fuck. If you are single, you may host her her at your place, she *may* host you at her place, or else you have to rent a hotel (for married guys, hotel is the only option unless you have some kinda open marriage). BTW, many girls are indeed flakes. Even after you agree on the details and you agree to meet at the hotel, and you rent a room and text her the room number, she may get cold feet and drop out at the last minute and you have paid room rent for nothing, plus wasted a large amount of time. This sort of thing does not happen with a girl you are repeating, but a first time fuck is never a guaranteed thing until you have your dick in her pussy. This is an advantage of FKK over sugar babe stuff, there is no chance you will not fuck a girl after you both agreed to the terms.

In general, sugar babe logistics are definitely more complicated if you are married. I have freely admitted I am married. I will not give away my secrets how I manage this side of my life, nor will I tell you how I sneak away to FKKs for weeks in a year. I have zero intention of my comfy life falling apart because I am too forthcoming on this site; logistics are definitely easier to plan if you are single. You may have more money available to pay for fuck activity in general. You may also not care about your identity disclosure, but that is for each person to decide. Girls blackmailing you for child support or other stuff is a risk, a SMALL risk but A risk in my view, but if she does not know your identity she does not have this option. So that is one reason to keep it a secret, to the extent possible. BTW, I fucked only *a few*girls bareback, not all of them.

Girls will turn you down, because this is an arrangement, not a brothel. These girls are not prostitutes, cannot emphasize that enough. There may be a few prostitutes on these sites, but most of the girls are not. If I had to do a breakdown, I would say 20% of the girls are absolute scam artists who Are on the site just to scam some easy money from first timers and gullible men, 20% to 30% are girls who will not meet and want to sell pictures and videos for money, 10% to 20% may be girls who are willing to meet but will be only platonic initially or forever, and the rest are willing to have sex. But even among the girls who are willing to fuck, they will be choosy because they can afford to be. Many guys are chasing them, especially the more attractive ones. BTW, these percentages are based on my own approaches to the girls and I only approach girls with specific characteristics (age 25, white / Fair skinned Latino, slim bodies, pretty face, no excessive tats). I don't know what those percentages would be if I relaxed my specs.

You need to decide how much you want to spend per month or in total and then have a plan. Can you host her for the fuck session whenever that happens? (Some girls may prefer the first fuck session to be in a hotel because you might turn out to be psycho in bed). If your budget is a couple of grand a month, you can reasonably expect 4 to 6 sessions in a month. Obviously, not having to pay for hotel rent will save you $50 to $150 per rental. Where will you do your first time meet and greet? If you have to take her to expensive dinners, that activity itself will set you back several hundred dollars a month. Some guys try to impress girls with how much wealth they have and take the girls to very high end diners or concerts etc (typically the ones who are not that well off are the ones trying to impress the most. I know this because when I was younger and had less money, I wanted to impress people. Now, I have a lot more and don't give a fuck what people think of me and my spending habits because I feel secure in my own skin now).

If you are going to be happy with a single girl in a regular / long term arrangement, you can stretch your budget. I have received offers from young college pretty girls who asked for $1000 to $1200 per month and in return they would meet once or twice a week. Some are willing to host. If you can find two such girls, you can stretch your budget and have 2 to 3 fuck sessions a week and still come under $2 K to $2. 5 K a month. You can see why this makes sense to a college girl. If she finds you reasonably attractive, you are effectively paying her room rent and some spending money and in return she has her own sexual needs taken care of. Not a bad choice, as she may have been fucking an immature classmate who may also be a fat slob and makes her pay for his lunch. Seen from the eyes of a college girl, a 40 year old guy who is in shape and has good manners and some worldly success and money to spend is a good fuck buddy, and the money you give is icing on the cake.

A lot of this obviously depends on where you live. Kansas City is less expensive than SF or Boston. If you are lucky enough to make $300 K annually and are single in Kansas City, yes you can have a lot of fun.

[Steve 9696]

I've been following and gathering info from this thread for many weeks as I've been learning the ropes of SA. I have also read some reviews about other sites like Sugardaddie, SecretBenefit and WhatsYourPrice. I think WYP and SA are owned by the same owner. Has any of you tried those ones out? SA seems to be the most expensive one.

I'm a newbie to this kind of arrangement thing. My understanding is that getting into a relationship with a babe on SA is kind of like renting a GF for lack of better words. Right? As I read it somewhere, in an ideal arrangement, you and your date would be like in a real GF / BF relationship only when you're together. When you're apart, you live separate lives and respect each other privacy. It's like she's playing a GF role when you two spend time together. Is that how you characterize it?

With that in mind, when you're having fun together with your SA 'GF', wouldn't you intimately involved in DFK, BBBJ, even bb in everything as if you're in a real romantic relationship? Yes? That would be a great incentive of finding someone from SA as if she's your 'exclusive' GF that you can do bb with. Otherwise, it would be better off to find an escort or visit FKK clubs. Do you see it that way? Have you guys been with an SA girl who would not allow DFK or bb all the way?



I'm curious if you made sure that she's on some kind of birth control or asked her to take the morning after pills or something. Otherwise, wouldn't you worry that if she ends up getting pregnant, she would go after you for child support? As you may have followed the news, Hunter Biden got sued for child support by a stripper because he got her pregnant.

Did you imply that if a guy is unattractive or below average look, he would have no luck on SA with a young college hottie even if he is highly successful with a lot of cash laying around? That would suck. In an FKK, you can be a fat slob and can still fuck a 8 or above. It's not like that on SA? I thought the SA ladies have an implicit understanding (without saying or admitting) that they exchange intimacy for gift $. No?



I understand perfectly that if you're married or in a committed relationship, you want to keep your SA activities secret. I got that. On the other hand, if you're not married, single without dependents, not in any kind of relationship, and not famous, what's the down side of letting your SA girls know who you are? In that case, why would you be so paranoid about that? Are you afraid of being judged or being robbed? I assume you would never bring her home, and she would not know where you live anyway. Am I too naive? Regarding to LinkedIn, you can disable profile view for any member who is not within your network. You have control over that.

If your coworkers recognize you on SA, then they can be just as guilty or embarrassed (or whatever adjective you have in mind) as you're by being on that site to begin with. Agree? You may be stigmatized, judged, or embarrassed for being on SA by them just as much as they would be by you since you're all on the same site. It goes both way. Doesn't it? Just like the old saying goes, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house. That's how I see it.

That made me wonder. You mean white girls in that age range are mostly faked or have higher expectation, demand, or requirement? Would it be very likely that these girls select their potential SDs based on certain physical attributes such as age, ethnicity, height, look, but NOT just based on the SD's spending power which is the whole concept of SA? It's pretty much a two way street sort of thing. Right? If the ladies are that selective because they get too many messages, that tells me that there are more men than women on SA which is opposite from what SA has advertised for. What's your observation?



I can not imagine any intelligent college educated girl would go to the room upon first meet. If she is truly a regular girl and not a hardened pro, I just can not believe she would go to the room with a guy whom she just met on the first date regardless of how the chemistry turns out to be. A decent girl would not just do that. I have a feeling that some SA ladies are probably escorts. In fact, I believe even more that many are probably professional SBs who use the SA site for making money as an ongoing part-time job to supplement their incomes. They're technically not escorts per se, but they are professional SBs. There is a slight distinction here. Wouldn't you agree?

Come on dude! You can not possibly believe those net worth. LOL. I'll take it with a grain of salt. I bet most college educated girls won't take that literally either. When I sign up, I'll probably post my net worth as if I'm a millionaire even though I'm not. LOL.Here are a few of my thoughts on these topics with around 20 SA girls:

Bareback with SA girls. No I don't think this is likely. At least any girl I want to see is smart and not desperate. Not going to risk it. Had it once in the heat of the moment but we agreed she'the take morning after pill. But yes absolutely DFK and BBBJ would be standard.

Birth Control. This is why I don't bareback. Not worried about diseases. These are low volume girls (again the ones I choose) but fuck who wants a girl to get pregnant. Like you say could ruin your life or her life or both. No chance I am risking this.

Personal Attractiveness. Clearly if you just get a hooker on SA it doesn't matter. But if you are playing the non pros it does. I'm pretty reasonable looking and fit for my age. But I have had girls ghost me after sending a pic. And clearly at dinner they will decide if they are going to the room with you. I want to be sure that goes my way.

SNL (single night lay) — You are talkings from a different generation when you say nice girls don't have sex on the first date with strangers. Girls in 20-25 bracket do it all the time. NICE GIRLS! Of my 20 this past year only 1 was a straight up pro. 4-5 were strippers and therefore semi-pro. And the remainder were just nice girls in or just out of college. All these were dinner and drinks and then sex on a single night date. I promise these are nice girls with real jobs (most are out of work now tho).

Responsiveness. I have no problem getting responses from 21-25 year olds which is my sweet spot. I don't really go for white girls often — Latina and Asian is my thing. But it's all about how you engage them. Chat them up. Get to know them. Always end with a question to keep the dialog going etc.

Money. I am sure guys lie about money both directions. I cut my net worth in half. LOL.

[LshRoomer]

So I have been using SA for about 3 years or so and I've used it mostly in Europe. Obviously YMMV, but having tried it in US and Europe, I prefer the EU scene much more! The bitches in the US (Denver and Phoenix mostly) seemed to have an elitist attitude concerning the whole exchange. I tried things locally in the US after using SA primarily (and successfully) in Prague, Berlin, London, Ukraine, and Vienna. This definitely turned me off to SA in the US. I'm one of those guys that has choices on SA. 80-90% of the girls I write will write me back. Therefore, I don't mind blocking a ***** if she comes off too strong and too demanding. The dynamic of the relationship has to be set from the very beginning. Be cool, but let the women know that they are dealing with someone level-headed, not desperate, or a pushover. I was talking to a girl in Denver and we seemed to be getting along. She wanted to meet for lunch and she seemed "into it", like I would probably be banging her that night. We agreed on time and place. In my mind, we would meet there. Simple stuff. She wrote me a text saying, "Hey, call me an uber at 12:30, so I can be there by 1". This is the very beginning of our relationship, you ask questions, not make demands. Blocked her and banged another SA chick that night instead.

You guys have stated plenty of facts, so I won't add to your great descriptions. The one thing I will say to anyone out there using SA is to leave your desperation at home. If you are using SA, then you have the funds to afford it, and therefore are not counted among the guys looking for 30 min sessions for 50 euros (nothing wrong with it. I've done those too. Just not my pref). I bring this up as a reminder that we all influence the market. If you are super generous and you would like to pay this SA girl $100 just to meet for coffee (no bang, just coffee), don't do it! I've seen more and more girls asking for money simply for the initial meet and greet. Who the fuck is paying these girls just to have the pleasure of dining or drinking with them?? Most are scams, but the fact is that this works on some less experienced or desperate mongers. So mongers, please do your research on the city you choose and let's keep prices from getting out of hand. I once had a girl in Hamburg tell me she wanted 700 euro per meet. I laughed and told her that she was probably new and had bad expectations. I then told her that I don't pay more than 300 - 350 for the first meet (paid after banging her brains at the end of the night or next morning. Never before). She agreed and everything went well, fucked her, recorded the session for later playback and even came in her mouth. She cut her rate by 50%. There are some more experienced girls that won't change their ask, so for them take it or leave it. In their case, they are probably a pro and you don't' want them anyway.

AO = hell no! I love AO just like the next guy, but for me, the risk is too high. I had a SB in London that I was banging about 3 times a month when I would come to town. She was in college, didn't' really want money, and preferred gifts instead. Everything worked out. Our first meet, I didn't have any condoms (rookie mistake) and she literally said to me, "I mean, I'm clean. So, it's OK. " She said these beautiful words out of a mouth that just removed itself from my dick and she was beautiful with long hair black hair, big firm tits, skinny! Man, I miss her. Hahahah. I digress. I chose not to and she spent the night and just gave me blowjobs all night. After banging her for a couple of months, giving her a few gifts, sending flowers, and just dining out (total over 3 months /8-9 meetings was about 1500) having a great time, she calls me one day and tells me to get tested because she found that someone gave her a nice little gift and she was afraid that she may have wrapped it up and gave it to me. Luckily, every session was wrapped up. BBBJ, but always CFS. This situation was enough for me to stay rigid when it comes to covered vs not covered. To each his own though.

BBBJ. Yes, you should be getting that with an SB!

Ball licking. Yes! You should be getting that with an SB!

DFK. Yes! You should definitely be getting this with an SB!

Going out. Yes! (I bring this up because I had a girl in London that only wanted ot meet at the Hotel. She said that she grew up in London and didn't want to run into anyone. 9 M people and they all know her. LOL).

Showers. Yes!

Anal. YMMV.

Submission. YMMV.

Multiple pops. Yes!

CIM. YES.

CIF. Maybe (YMMV).

If you are not getting the above, excluding YMMV, then you should get rid of the pro that you have, because she is not a SB.

Just my. 02. I just found this thread, so it's nice to see other mongers' experiences.

[PunterWanderer]

Steve and Jimmy Boy, thanks for the enlightenment. Speaking of AO, that's another benefit of SA, IMHO. Since these gals are not pros, the risks associated with AO are less, especially if you and your SB are exclusive, which is what I often aim for. Incidentally, I have discovered that more gals are willing to do AO after these lockdowns. Well, that's been true in Shanghai, where things are almost back to normal. Some MP gals are even willing to do AO at their shops, because they are desperate for money. I am torn about this, of course. I know that no pussy is worth the risk, but I just love the feeling of AO and it's hard to go back to covered if one has been doing AO on occasion.I happened to have a couple of AO full services with WGs here in Germany in the past. By the way, I didn't ask for it nor did the ladies charge me extra fees for the service. It's just happened like that.

All in all, I would no longer trade off a few minutes of bareback sex with all that can potentially come with it. I was also very nervous the subsequent days, and I've promised myself to think with my brain not with my johnson.

With that being said, I'm not 100% sure that freebies and, especially, SB/semi-pros are necessarily safer. Of course, statistically it's easier to catch something from a WG who takes 5+ d*cks per day than freebies or semi-pros. However, so far I got a - luckily not serious and easily treatable - STD from a freebie years ago. Moreover, my guess is that the average semi-pro is more likely to have AO sex with multiple men than the average WG. I guess this a risk that to some extent one has to take into account with this lifestyle.

My 2 cents, ofc.

[Romeo Joe]

90 percent of the girls on there under 25 wanted bareback CIM or cig also had anal from 2 who wanted to try these are girls trying to make you fall in love with them they think if you getting it raw from them your hooked now every girl over 27 wanted protection from me but all BBBJCIM I make sure they legit girls not escorts usually after a conversation you can tell what they are.

[Steve 9696]

Clearly LshRoomer is an experienced SD and that's good info. I totally agree with your list of standard vs YMMV services. Pretty much spot on with my experience. I have to say it's a pleasant surprise but yes Ball Licking and Sucking from pretty much every SB. Not like where tons of pros say they don't do that or it’s extra.

Also get not only CIM but swallow from quite a few. Love that. And sleepover from a few also.

It's really sooooo much better than an escort when it's done right.

[LshRoomer]

Clearly LshRoomer is an experienced SD and that's good info. I totally agree with your list of standard vs YMMV services. Pretty much spot on with my experience. I have to say it's a pleasant surprise but yes Ball Licking and Sucking from pretty much every SB. Not like where tons of pros say they don't do that or its extra.

Also get not only CIM but swallow from quite a few. Love that. And sleepover from a few also.

It's really sooooo much better than an escort when it's done right.Steve 9696,

Spoken like a true professional. I was doing the escort thing for a while, trying all types. I tried the 30 min girls, the "high class" escorts, the massage parlor girls, the 1 hour escorts, the cheap outcall escorts and I found that the experience varied too widely. It was too impersonal and one ***** actually tried to upsell me kissing. That's ridiculous. First I'd probably not kiss a girl with high mileage and second, I def wouldn't pay for it. LOL. While on the Prague thread a few years ago, I was introduced to "sponsoring" as the monger called it and from there, everything changed. The better escort experiences, for me, were with longer sessions (2+ hours). The 1 hour or 30 min sessions were too impersonal and just didn't' "feel" right. The escorts were rigid, sometimes barely talked, too mechanical, wanted to wrap everything, and just didn't' produce a good experience for me. Some would ask for extra for CIF, then completely destroy experience (by reaction). So this made me curb my hobby frequency. After trying SA for the first time, I saw that it was a different ballgame. Long sessions; they already know what you look like and vice versa (so no weird preference issues); I have never had a bait and switch but I'm sure it has happened to someone out there. The girls are more free to have a good time and "clock watching" are words in another language that these girls gladly haven't been taught. I know a lot of guys in the Prague thread like the Privats, which are nice. They don't' really use SA, however, if you compare price, a privat girl is 60/ HR and she is fucking a lot (a lot) of guys that day. An SB will want about 300/350 for 6 hours to overnight and more than likely, you are the only guy she banged that day. If you chilled with her from 8 until 2 (normal for me), that's approximately 50/ HR, which is cheaper than a privat girl and you have the added benefit of chatting with her before you meet in order to determine if you like her personality, if her English is good enough for social situations (drinks for an hour), determine what she likes to do (I usually like to smoke shisha and it's good know if the girl is into it), and to generally get a feel for her vibe. In my opinion, this makes the bang so much better, as there is another component besides her physical attraction that you can add to your blood flow. LOL. You'll know if she likes to have her hair pulled, of if she is into some crazy shit. An escort may have the service available, but unless you get to know her, it may be difficult to know what she actually 'likes' to do.

In the end, if you are going to be in this hobby, you have to keep your options open (I think). I met 2 escorts in Prague that I like and I usually hit them up or they hit me up when I'm in town. They were super cool during our first session and now, it's more seamless to be together. I don't' even know their rates. LOL. Bc we go to dinner and / or drinks then back to my hotel / airbnb to finish the night off (usually 3-5 hours total). Usually when I ask, "how much do you need? I get numbers around 150 - 300 (never more), so in the end, I'm getting an average rate of about 50/ HR, which I know is about a third of what the escorts charge in Prague for a single hour.

With that being said, yes, SA is waaaaay better. When I travel to EU, I usually hit up a regular (depending on the city) or I'm on a mission to find a new SB. At this point, I have to renew my roster, so I'm waiting for COVID to be over in order to meet some new regulars.

Just my. 02.

Safe Mongering guys.

[Midwestern]

Great discussions and intel in this thread. Agree with Steven that if it's done right, then SA is great. In a nutshell, you get all the great parts of having a GF and none of the bad parts, IF it's done right. But if you usually have to shell out some money for it, and it takes a LOT of time to find the good SBs and the right arrangements.

[Pessimist]

So I have been using SA for about 3 years or so and I've used it mostly in Europe. Obviously YMMV, but having tried it in US and Europe, I prefer the EU scene much more! The bitches in the US (Denver and Phoenix mostly) seemed to have an elitist attitude concerning the whole exchange. I tried things locally in the US after using SA primarily (and successfully) in Prague, Berlin, London, Ukraine, and Vienna. This definitely turned me off to SA in the US. I'm one of those guys that has choices on SA. 80-90% of the girls I write will write me back. Therefore, I don't mind blocking a ***** if she comes off too strong and too demanding. The dynamic of the relationship has to be set from the very beginning. Be cool, but let the women know that they are dealing with someone level-headed, not desperate, or a pushover. I was talking to a girl in Denver and we seemed to be getting along. She wanted to meet for lunch and she seemed "into it", like I would probably be banging her that night. We agreed on time and place. In my mind, we would meet there. Simple stuff. She wrote me a text saying, "Hey, call me an uber at 12:30, so I can be there by 1". This is the very beginning of our relationship, you ask questions, not make demands. Blocked her and banged another SA chick that night instead..Hi,

Very nice report. Thank you. One of the senior members here, BFsie, lives in Germany and is a long time user of sugar babe sites in that country from the FKK threads. Not sure if he uses SA or other sites. I have used SA in DE only in the recent past and not very much. First, if I am in DE, my focus is on trying to attend FKks as much as possible. Even if I am within 60 to 90 miles of Hessen and NRW clubs, I will make every attempt to attend the club in the evenings. However, Artemis has declined in the recent years and that gave me a chance to use SA a couple of times.

You are right about your observation that the number of girls in the US asking for money upfront is obscenely high. Uber is one thing, many girls ask, no make it demand, $100 just to have initial meet and greet dinner. "You need to prove to me that you are not a fake or fraud" is their line. Wtf. Suppose I am a fake. Then, being a fake of course I would not give any cash upfront. Suppose I am not a fake. Then, why the fuck do I need to prove that I am not a fake, since that is something I already know. Some body should slap some sense into these fucking girls.

That said, again as I said in many posts, with patience and a lot of due diligence, it is very easily possible to get sessions in the $200 to $300 range in the US depending on where you are. These days girls are desperate and if I was willing to ignore social distancing rules, I could easily obtain sessions with quite pretty girls for $200 or even a bit less based on how the dialog is going in the last few weeks.

It seems you are able to obtain good value in London. That has not been my experience; However I tried just a couple of times. I don't go to London that often. Perhaps I should give it a real try on my next visit.

[LshRoomer]

Hi,

Very nice report. Thank you. One of the senior members here, BFsie, lives in Germany and is a long time user of sugar babe sites in that country from the FKK threads. Not sure if he uses SA or other sites. I have used SA in DE only in the recent past and not very much. First, if I am in DE, my focus is on trying to attend FKks as much as possible. Even if I am within 60 to 90 miles of Hessen and NRW clubs, I will make every attempt to attend the club in the evenings. However, Artemis has declined in the recent years and that gave me a chance to use SA a couple of times.

You are right about your observation that the number of girls in the US asking for money upfront is obscenely high. Uber is one thing, many girls ask, no make it demand, $100 just to have initial meet and greet dinner. "You need to prove to me that you are not a fake or fraud" is their line. Wtf. Suppose I am a fake. Then, being a fake of course I would not give any cash upfront. Suppose I am not a fake. Then, why the fuck do I need to prove that I am not a fake, since that is something I already know. Some body should slap some sense into these fucking girls.Pessimist,

I've actually never been to an FKK. I've been to showpark in Prague, but not a proper German FKK. The experience does appeal to me, but every time I consider going, the thought comes to mind that I'll be having a drink, see a nice looking girl, chat her up for a bit, then head back to bang her based on her menu of offerings. Based on the day, I may have to wait until 2 or 3 other guys are done with her first LOL! Even still, the thought of FKK does pique my curiosity. I may just go next time I'm in Germany just to cross it off the list. Are there any FKKs that you guys recommend (forgive me for the question, I do realize I'm in the SA thread)?

I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing the practice of asking $$ just for a quick coffee. That's why in my first post, I pleaded with my fellow mongers to not give into this piss poor practice. Without us, these girls would have to take another path. Therefore, we should be the one dictating (or influencing) the price, not them. And for new guys, I say again. Paying to meet her in order to "prove" you are not fake is a big NO NO! Don't do it! Move on! Don't fuck up the market for the rest of us and set bad expectations! As more of us mongers pay these crazy prices ( 500 for a night), we are sending a message that the prices can / should increase. I'm sure we don't want to send that message.

OK. Back to what I was saying. Don't get stuck on one piece of pussy. And never give her the cash at the beginning of your date. Most SBs will not ask you directly for the cash, they expect you to "take care" of them financially after the act is done at the end of the night or the next morning or later in the day, if you see her back to back. I've had girls that I've seen on Thursday, they left Friday morning, then we saw each other again Friday night and that's when I gave them some euros. When I think of paying beforehand (a no no. Bc remember, she is not an escort), it makes me think of one girl in Germany that ended up not going well. On our first date, we had drinks and then retired to my room. While chatting and drinking, she mentioned that she didn't' have a winter coat (this was December like 3 yrs ago). I pulled out 100 right there and told her, "OMG, go buy a jacket". I was free with the $$ bc I was looking to make her a regular and give a quick example of how we should "take care of each other". To me, it's a simple deal. I'll hook you up financially when needed and take you to places that you could never afford, and in exchange, we take care of each other's physical / fantasy needs. - I digress. Anyway, she refused the money. Then after making out a bit, she mentioned that she didn't know if I was "real" and she would only know if I gave her $500 right then, before we bang. LOL. I was thinking with my little head and actually said okay and left the room to find an ATM. Don't laugh guys, I was a bit less experienced at this point. While trying to find an ATM (not easy), it gave me time to think. I'm so glad it took us a while to find one! I changed my mind and told her that I'd be more comfortable with 3 instead of 5. She got upset (rightfully so, I was a dick and changed my mind at the last minute while literally in front of the ATM. Hahahah) and from there the date was over. I called her a cab and checked it off as experience +1. She was a solid 7.5, but the long bright red hair added to her sex appeal and I wanted to see what she could do in bed. Oh well, I saved the cash and had a great time a few days later in London.

Onto London. I can imagine that you could have had mixed results in London. For me, my London girl "chats" have been hit or miss, based on their expectations, and I can see how that would turn someone off with London. However, when chat evolves into a real meeting, I've seen nothing but greatness in London. Girls were always cool, they were willing, not demanding, and able to experiment. Money was never an issue and I had one that I literally never gave $$, just gifts and outings. The funny thing is of all the chicks that I've met in London, none of them were actually from the UK. LOL. So I would say to give it a try, but be patient, to find a good SB. When you find a good one, the $$ exchanges easier; it's not based on when you see her, it's more a flow of benefits. Ahahahaha.

Safe mongering!

[Midwestern]

All this SA discussion has me missing it. I only used it in the states. But now that I do not see myself in the states any time soon, maybe I will try it in Shanghai. Anyone try SA in China? In Shanghai? If so, can you share your experiences?

[Pessimist]

All this SA discussion has me missing it. I only used it in the states. But now that I do not see myself in the states any time soon, maybe I will try it in Shanghai. Anyone try SA in China? In Shanghai? If so, can you share your experiences?I just checked SA searching Shanghai area (100 miles) - there are 20 to 25 girls currently online and roughly 100 girls who logged in the last 24 hours. Photos look good. Not at all clear to me how many of them speak good English or any English. Many of them have their bio write up in Chinese only. A few listed friends with benefits as one of their seeking attributes.

I have no real experience using the service in Shanghai. I personally would be very wary of using pay for sex services in commie China with zero recourse to any due legal process. That's just me. To the extent possible, I avoid ever traveling to that country.

[Steve 9696]

On the topic of "I need some money to see you" RUN AWAY fast. Look I don't buy into the ruining the market thing. Markets will do what they do. But I know that any girl that asks for cash for a platonic meet and greet is NOT someone you want to see. In fact as soon as they ask for cash upfront you can be 90% sure they are a scammer — never going to be down for a real date with sex. Why should they when they can get $100 from a bunch of rubes for doing nothing! Instant block!

I am also not a fan of the coffee date. First date is ALWAYS at least drinks but more likely dinner and drinks — and go to the room that night. My experience is close the deal in that first date window. Get a vibe going and some drinks flowing and clothes will be shed shortly!

To Lshroomers FKK question you simply must do it. You don't do it for the sex. I guarantee your SB sex is better because it's more real. But you do it for the EXPERIENCE. There is nothing on earth like the FKK and a buffet of beautiful women (well the Boates if São Paulo can be equally satisfying) and you haven't really lived life fully as a man if you have not done FKK ImO.

[Pessimist]

Pessimist,

I've actually never been to an FKK. I've been to showpark in Prague, but not a proper German FKK. The experience does appeal to me, but every time I consider going, the thought comes to mind that I'll be having a drink, see a nice looking girl, chat her up for a bit, then head back to bang her based on her menu of offerings. Based on the day, I may have to wait until 2 or 3 other guys are done with her first LOL! Even still, the thought of FKK does pique my curiosity. I may just go next time I'm in Germany just to cross it off the list. Are there any FKKs that you guys recommend (forgive me for the question, I do realize I'm in the SA thread)?

I'm glad that I'm not the only one noticing the practice of asking $$ just for a quick coffee. That's why in my first post, I pleaded with my fellow mongers to not give into this piss poor practice. Without us, these girls would have to take another path. Therefore, we should be the one dictating (or influencing) the price, not them. And for new guys, I say again. Paying to meet her in order to "prove" you are not fake is a big NO NO! Don't do it! Move on! Don't fuck up the market for the rest of us and set bad expectations! As more of us mongers pay these crazy prices ( 500 for a night), we are sending a message that the prices can / should increase. I'm sure we don't want to send that message.

OK. Back to what I was saying.Actually, I didn't have any result in London, LOL. This is how it works for me: If I go to Europe, I generally try to take a side tour and make a trip to FKK at least for a couple of days. As such, I am not looking to spend too many days in London. Be there for the absolute minimum number of days for business and try to make beeline to FKKs LOL. And when in London, it is also possible that I may have a business dinner with colleagues, which leaves even less time for sugar babes. I try to look up girls on SA in London and see if I can negotiate a deal before I even step in London, but till now, such negotiations have not gotten anywhere. Since I am only there for a couple of days, it becomes a one time thing and the girls have asked for too much money so far. And I am not willing to fork over that much because I may be heading to FKks the next day and I can bang chicks for 50.

If I spend a couple of weeks in London on business, I will probably become more serious about finding sugar babes in London. But that has not happened yet.

I think you should try to attend FKK at least once. The first time you step into one of those places is unlike anything you may have ever seen. These days the experience has become a bit jaded but 8/9 years ago, girls were less pushy, and service was quite good. To be in a place where you have 100 totally naked chicks and knowing that you can fuck any of them on the spot for 50 is an awesome feeling. I end up doing 15 to 25 sessions per a normal trip (4 to 6 days) or fewer if it is just a short stop for a day or two. It is a good idea to try one of the larger clubs in NRW or Hessen for your first visit.

I can't tell you one is better than the other. I would say sugar babes and FKK are different experiences. That is something you need to find for yourself.

You give give advice about not giving into sharky sugar babes. I have been doing this for 4 years now. I would say though, "destroying the market by paying too much" typically does not happen too much. This is a very fragmented market. In my city alone, there are several thousand girls on SA over wide range of races, ages, body types, other attributes. I don't think they are talking to each other too much. Most girls know a couple of other girls who are on SA, that's it. What I notice is that many girls have no idea what is a realistic expectation. Some ask for $500 per session but quickly come down to $200. That sort of thing never happens in a FKK. In a club, there is transmission of information from experienced girls to new girls, there is a somewhat rigid to loosely elastic pricing structure, etc. I think it really pays to be patient and negotiate with many girls. Eventually you will receive good offers, and over time you accumulate a fairly large stable of girls. I revisit girls from even a couple of years ago, and they don't hold a grudge that we did not get together in a while. If they still need money, some are willing to have a quick one time session. This is the advantage of being on the site for a long time.

[Steve 9696]

As we all suffer through the drought, perhaps you will enjoy this previously unpublished SA girl report out. Enjoy!

-.

Of my three NYC girls I surely must write this one up as my finest complete dating experience ever. (At the time).

So Emily is Vietnamese and super cute. She's in college in NYC -- her senior year but is from LA. She has a true valley girl sort of free spirit about her, like everything in the world is new and amazing.

We really got lucky to go on a date together. Because I'd been surfing NYC for weeks and thought I was done. Then on the Friday before I find her. I accidentally overlooked her age range maxing out at 45 and sent her a ping and was surprised when she responded. But then we have instant chemistry and witty banter. It's interesting how this just totally works with some girls and you get mutually infatuated over the wire. It's really great. Probably best chemistry since Valentina.

At some point I casually threw in something about meeting and she was all over it. But she suggested coffee and possibly a later meet up. I told her I had to politely decline because I was too busy for two meetings (the truth) and I thought we were done. So she says she's not opposed to a single dinner meeting but she's new and how would that work.

This is actually good because I can explain how I agreed terms with other girls and this involves mentioning room time. So we get that elephant out of the room. I tell her I would gift her in the hundreds but I sent girls who asked 500 packing. With this loose framework we agree to meet.

I pick out a lovely high end Italian place with a view of the Brooklyn Bridge. Last minute she asks if I can call her an Uber which is a bit of a pro move so I form some unfounded doubts. When she arrives, these doubts are quickly cast aside. She is such a genuine vivacious young force of nature. Just bubbly and so excited to be treated like a princess.

We have a lovely dinner together and it is so much fun to be introducing this girl to the high-end dinner date. She's over the moon about the food and the view and everything else. She's never had Tiramisu which she adores after ordering. Just magical to see her thousand watt smile across from me all evening.

I guess conversation must have just flowed beyond even expectations Because before we knew it it was 10:15. Two hours absolutely flew by. So we decide to go for a drink in Brooklyn and will walk the 20 minutes to a speakeasy I found on Google.

We start by just lingering outside on the dock looking at the Brooklyn Bridge. Very romantic holding hands etc but I don't recall kissing her. Still very comfortable. We walk hand in hand the mile or so to the bar which we can't find but end up in another one. It's OK but I think we are both thinking about the room and don't stay more than 15 minutes. And we walk to the hotel.

The night before with Ashley I got surprised by the screening check they set up at night at the hotel, where you have to pass thru a security check of key cards. I had Ashley trailing me so as to not attract late night colleague attention and had to make the last minute decision to motion her up to me and get her thru the check. I was prepared for this with Emily and gave her a key in the Uber. So it went fine being slightly separated and we were soon in the room together.

Emily had only been with three guys before lifetime. But one was a boyfriend of seven years. So at 23 she was an endearing mix of experienced and inexperienced. Properly liquored up she was not too nervous but a bit giggly and apologetic about not being a good kisser. True to her word it was pretty mediocre to start but she was a quick learner and soon matched my style. It was super nice once we got passionate.

We start making out fully clothed standing near the bed. I almost always start this way. But we got naked quickly as she wore this amazing dress. It was kind of like a suit with one button and no bra. So with the flick of a button she is in nothing but panties. And wow. A banging hot body. Rather full firm Bcups and a great ass. Really really good.

We start on the bed with me pulling her down on top of me and are making out naked. It's kinda sweet but I have to direct her hand down to my junk to let her know she should be hands on at this point. LOL. These newbies are delightful!

But when she gets to BBBJ it's very good. Later she says she learned to treat it like a popsicle (schoolgirl laugh goes here). I provide some direction moving her to BLS. This seems unfamiliar territory for her but she does an OK job and so fun to be with a BLS virgin. Just the "newness" of being with her is intoxicating.

I remember getting on top of her naked and really kissing her passionately. And working my way down. Plenty of tit sucking. What a nice pair. And she enjoys the circular motion. And lots of licking and teasing. By the time I reach her pussy she is a sloppy mess.

And boy is she in for a ride. I lick and suck and finger her Gspot and she squirms and bucks and has several Os Over a twenty plus minute session. When I come up for air she is totally sweaty and spent and says, "Well I guess I've never had that done right before! That was really something!" LOL. Glad to be of service ma'am!

We fuck in all the usual positions with Mish kissing being spectacular and really good doggie. What a nice body. But we head back to the BBBJ for a finish. She's got great on-shaft technique and I rise to the occasion to give her a hot mouth load that she swallows with grace. This just another benefit of the right SA girls you are boyfriend for the night and they treat you like one.

The afterglow is great and we have the best pillow talk ever. We stare deeply into each other's eyes for long periods. I do recall her saying "I'm not an escort am I?" and kinda have to White lie "no baby this is different. We both want to be here and the gift is just a side effect" It's sweet that she wants to remain on the sweet girl side of the line if she can.

I try to convince her to spend the night and had I pushed hard I think she would have. But in the end she decides to go. We call her an Uber and I track it till she gets home. What a sweetheart. Overall including dinner and romance and the bedroom, this is the best date I've ever had. (At the time. Krystal in Las Vegas blew the roof of my world a few months later!

[Akibono]

As we all suffer through the drought, perhaps you will enjoy this previously unpublished SA girl report out. Enjoy!!.That is the secret to a girl making a lot of money. If she can make you feel that way, then the sky is your credit limit. But not that many women really enjoy the deed. That is why they are rare.

[Midwestern]

I just checked SA searching Shanghai area (100 miles) - there are 20 to 25 girls currently online and roughly 100 girls who logged in the last 24 hours. Photos look good. Not at all clear to me how many of them speak good English or any English. Many of them have their bio write up in Chinese only. A few listed friends with benefits as one of their seeking attributes.

I have no real experience using the service in Shanghai. I personally would be very wary of using pay for sex services in commie China with zero recourse to any due legal process. That's just me. To the extent possible, I avoid ever traveling to that country.Thanks, Pessimist. I also took a quick peak at the Shanghai profiles on SA, and your assessment is spot on. After looking at a couple of pages, I quickly remembered how tiresome it was being on SA, so I just quit after 15 minutes. That said, I did see a couple of white gals that piqued my interest, but right now it's still semi-strict in Shanghai. Security at apartment complexes haven't loosened up completely, and hotels are on extra alert. Still plenty of scrutiny and screening, man. So, this really undermines my ability to take full advantage of SA anyway. But when I am finally back in the states, I may take up SA again. The reports that you guys are posting are kinda drawing me back.

[Midwestern]

You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?

[Gargano19]

You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?Girls love to find rich dudes with exotic cars and huge house, to show their social status (mostly on Instagram). They know they can use their looks and sex to get the easy Men comfortably.

Long time ago I met this girl who had somewhat similar bio, and when we met for dinner, she was more interested in knowing my bank balance rather than me. I knew it instantly I am not going to date her ever. She needed expensive gifts (which will cost way more that some pay to top escorts), a guy who can buy her an expensive apparent in great neighborhood, and I know many guys who do that. So yes there are girls, on SA or in clubs who don't ask money directly for sex but aim for long term investment.

[Pessimist]

Thanks, Pessimist. I also took a quick peak at the Shanghai profiles on SA, and your assessment is spot on. After looking at a couple of pages, I quickly remembered how tiresome it was being on SA, so I just quit after 15 minutes. That said, I did see a couple of white gals that piqued my interest, but right now it's still semi-strict in Shanghai. Security at apartment complexes haven't loosened up completely, and hotels are on extra alert. Still plenty of scrutiny and screening, man. So, this really undermines my ability to take full advantage of SA anyway. But when I am finally back in the states, I may take up SA again. The reports that you guys are posting are kinda drawing me back.Are you currently in Shanghai? I did not realize. I would love to know your experiences in that region, either on SA or in general with paid sex. I am just naturally quite scared of doing anything illegal in a communist country. But I hear prostitution is not uncommon in China. I know that apps like Tantan have some number of semi professional girls. The other thing I would be curious about is prices in China. As you know, one group which has gained a reputation as playing spoilers in the market are the Asian mongers in FKKs. They fly in, give 250 Euros for a service that is supposed to cost 50 or 100 and now the girls are expecting such exorbitant amounts from all other men. So, I am curious if SA girls in China have super inflated expectations. It appears to me that there is a lot of money sloshing around in that part of the world, and a pretty girl can rake in a lot.

[Pessimist]

You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?Yeah, girls who say such things are somewhat common. Have I actually been with them and was I able to verify if their stories were accurate? Can't remember too many. I know that one girl I have been seeing for a few months has a degree in biology from one of the best universities in this part of the country and taking some Masters classes but she has anxiety issues, has not found any meaningful job. She is very sweet and definitely not an escort. At the same time, she is not on SA just to date men, and she needs help but she is shy and after 5 lunch dates, I still have not had sex with her yet. We were going to get to that soon, and this virus hit LOL. Just her luck and my luck, as she needs the money and I am quite attracted to her.

I have also run into some mid 20's women who say they are in marketing or other jobs, a few who are flight attendants, and others in similar careers. If I expand my search to mid 30's, I may be able to find more of these women with their own successful careers but I do stop in mid / late 20's even while searching and really prefer to be with girls under 25, if possible.

If the intent of your question is whether there are good looking successful women who are using SA as some sort of Tinder to find dates that could morph into relationships down the line and where they are not poking to get paid for every meet and hookup, I suppose there are a few. I have seen such profiles but I personally do not have experience with them first hand, because I am mainly looking for hookups with younger girls and I make it clear that relationship is out of the question from the very first chat.

[Steve 9696]

You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?I think you are asking about girls with white color jobs who want to dabble. I have only come across on of those. She was 34 and worked pretty high level in Finance. But I made the mistake of a coffee date plus she really doesn't have the incentive of the other girls since she's completely independent. So between her job and her age we didn't seal the deal.

That said only 1 of my 20 ish SBs I would say is a straight up escort. Most have (had?) a job of some sort and this was a sideline. Of course these are the girls I look for so no surprise. Here are the professions that I remember. And the ones that are college students are not fake college girls. I got to know them well enough that they are what they say they are.

23 - engineering student.

26 - legal assistant.

26 - construction office manager.

24 - yoga instructor and shibari specialist.

23 - fashion student.

26 - criminology student and stripper.

23 - hairdresser and stripper.

20 - college student.

24 - IT technician.

23 - waitress (high end; trains staff).

I think those who say SA girls are hookers have not spent much time with good SA girls. (And of course there are plenty of hookers too. I just avoid them.) They are just hot girls, not afraid of their sexuality, experimenting (and thus 21-24 is my sweet spot) and picking up some cash on the side.

And the side benefit that I was never expecting is I now have a regular go to in these lean times. After our second hotel date she invited me to her place. So we can enjoy Covid-free sex. 😋

[Elvis 2008]

You guys ever come across profiles where the gals say they have good jobs and are not escorts, but they are on SA just because they want to date successful men? If so, what were your experiences with these gals?All the time, and it is better if they have work. For the most part, I like the women who have jobs and are not dependent on me totally. Students are more available time wise than those who work. I have tried out strippers as SBs and that has been a disaster. If you keep them as hooker types, strippers are fine even above average but they suck as SBs and not in a good way.

I have been more focused on Latin American women and have been really happy with the ones who are students and work. The Latin women put so much more effort into pleasing their man it is not funny. I have three right now they send me porno type sex videos every week.

[Midwestern]

Are you currently in Shanghai? I did not realize. I would love to know your experiences in that region, either on SA or in general with paid sex. I am just naturally quite scared of doing anything illegal in a communist country. But I hear prostitution is not uncommon in China. I know that apps like Tantan have some number of semi professional girls. The other thing I would be curious about is prices in China. As you know, one group which has gained a reputation as playing spoilers in the market are the Asian mongers in FKKs. They fly in, give 250 Euros for a service that is supposed to cost 50 or 100 and now the girls are expecting such exorbitant amounts from all other men. So, I am curious if SA girls in China have super inflated expectations. It appears to me that there is a lot of money sloshing around in that part of the world, and a pretty girl can rake in a lot.Yeah, I'm an expat in Shanghai. I cannot speak Mandarin, so my mongering is limited to what I can pickup from the ISG forum on Shanghai, and the intel in that forum is pretty good. I contribute a lot to that forum. Steve, in this thread, is also a great contributor to that forum. If you ever come to Shanghai, then I can show you some of the ropes. There are definitely dos and don'ts, especially don'ts. Regarding prices, well, I've only been in China for 9 years, and while I've been here, the prices have more than doubled. For example, a massage and happy ending is about $60 for massage and $40 for tip. This price is pretty much identical to USA Prices for similar experience. Escort prices range a lot. The old days where there were plenty of cheap options, such as BBSs, are over. But yeah, the government was cracking down on stuff, such as saunas. And raids on MPs were becoming more common. However, because of the coronavirus lockdown, it feels like LE and local authorities have lengthened the leash a bit, to allow MP owners and their gals to recover from their financial hardships.

[Midwestern]

Thanks guys, for the replies to my question. Maybe I will peruse SA in Shanghai some more. The main reason why I posted this question is because I noticed that some white gals in SA Shanghai are stating that they have jobs, and they are just on the site to find someone successful to date while they are posted in Shanghai. Their profiles look more interesting than the Chinese gals' profiles. They genuinely seem bored, and looking for someone to play with. For the Chinese gals on SA Shanghai, they are older than the typical SA gal, and they look marriage minded.

[MoneySign]

Thank you for all your responses which are quite informative. Many of you brought up the risk of STD which is a legitimate concern. (I've never done AO in FKK as the risk is not justified.) What struck me is that none of you seemed to bring up getting STD tests together with your SBs. I remember when I was in college, my roommate and his GF used to get tested together when they're dating. I guess it's not an unusual thing to do. Isn't it? I wouldn't mind doing that. I'm not saying go get tested at the beginning of the relationship. After going on few intimate dates / nights to gain trusts from each other, you and your SA GF become kind of like 'real' GF / BF. Right? If you decide to continue the arrangement, you can then easily convince each other to get tested together so you can engage in AO next time you meet. What am I missing here? Why not get tested at the beginning of a date and share the results in your next meet up. If you both are clean, voila! You can enjoy AO all the way with a piece of mind. Am I out of my mind or what?



BBBJ. Yes, you should be getting that with an SB!
Ball licking. Yes! You should be getting that with an SB!
DFK. Yes! You should definitely be getting this with an SB!
Going out. Yes! (I bring this up because I had a girl in London that only wanted ot meet at the Hotel. She said that she grew up in London and didn't want to run into anyone. 9 M people and they all know her. LOL).
Showers. Yes!
Anal. YMMV.
Submission. YMMV.
Multiple pops. Yes!
CIM. YES.
CIF. Maybe (YMMV).
If you are not getting the above, excluding YMMV, then you should get rid of the pro that you have, because she is not a SB.
Well taken! You forgot to mention giving DATY which, I assume, is an automatic given. Right? I suppose you can throw in some fingering activities in there as well. LOL.

[Pessimist]

Thank you for all your responses which are quite informative. Many of you brought up the risk of STD which is a legitimate concern. (I've never done AO in FKK as the risk is not justified.) What struck me is that none of you seemed to bring up getting STD tests together with your SBs. I remember when I was in college, my roommate and his GF used to get tested together when they're dating. I guess it's not an unusual thing to do. Isn't it? I wouldn't mind doing that. I'm not saying go get tested at the beginning of the relationship. After going on few intimate dates / nights to gain trusts from each other, you and your SA GF become kind of like 'real' GF / BF. Right? If you decide to continue the arrangement, you can then easily convince each other to get tested together so you can engage in AO next time you meet. What am I missing here? Why not get tested at the beginning of a date and share the results in your next meet up. If you both are clean, voila! You can enjoy AO all the way with a piece of mind. Am I out of my mind or what?

Well taken! You forgot to mention giving DATY which, I assume, is an automatic given. Right? I suppose you can throw in some fingering activities in there as well. LOL.It is a question of risk tolerance, which is a personal matter.

Some of us have more tolerance than others. Some guys here may always drive under the speed limit, perhaps some drive consistently at 15 miles above the limit, and so forth.

I have been going to FKKs for several yers and have always received BBBJ in addition to giving DATY. Short of bareback sex, I normally don't refrain from other sexual activities in these clubs. I tend to enjoy more than a dozen sessions, often upto 2 dozen sessions, with very few repeat girls when I am on these FKK trips. I imagine this is a pattern that is common to many mogers here. These girls are fucking more than 10 different guys a day, and numbering into several hundred different guys per year. If guys are comfortable doing that, you can imaginne our risk tolerance is much higher than a guy who needs testing before initiating any kind of sexual acitivity with a new girl.

Now, if you are saying "why not get tested, and then have bareback sex", that is a fair point. However, I will say that bareback sex always carries some amount of risk. Unbeknown to you, she may be fucking other guys (sugar daddies or boy friends or one night stands), and from her pov you may be doing the same. So, even if you get tested once, it hardly means subsequent sex sessions are risk free (unless you plan to get tested before every fuck session, which of course is not practical). So, as I said at the start, every guy has to decide how much is risk is OK for him and deal with consequences as they arise. In my case, I have been lucky so far and after several hundreds of girls all of who gave me BBBJ (and a very small number of sugar babes that I fucked AO), I am still disease free, fingers crossed.

[Steve 9696]

Thank you for all your responses which are quite informative. Many of you brought up the risk of STD which is a legitimate concern. (I've never done AO in FKK as the risk is not justified.) What struck me is that none of you seemed to bring up getting STD tests together with your SBs. I remember when I was in college, my roommate and his GF used to get tested together when they're dating. I guess it's not an unusual thing to do. Isn't it? I wouldn't mind doing that. I'm not saying go get tested at the beginning of the relationship. After going on few intimate dates / nights to gain trusts from each other, you and your SA GF become kind of like 'real' GF / BF. Right? If you decide to continue the arrangement, you can then easily convince each other to get tested together so you can engage in AO next time you meet. What am I missing here? Why not get tested at the beginning of a date and share the results in your next meet up. If you both are clean, voila! You can enjoy AO all the way with a piece of mind. Am I out of my mind or what?

Well taken! You forgot to mention giving DATY which, I assume, is an automatic given. Right? I suppose you can throw in some fingering activities in there as well. LOL.Obviously as others say we each have our risk tolerance. I think the chance of STD with a part time SB (is not a real pro) are very very low. But the chance of accidental pregnancy is not low and the consequences very high! You can ruin one or both of your lives pretty quickly with that. I'the give that a lot more thought than than the STD thing.

Additionally "let's get tested" is going to send any good SB packing. To any worthy girl this is the equivalent of saying "I think you are a cheap ****". May as well slap her in the face while you are at it. Sure relationship killer with any girl I would want to be with. I cannot imagine insulting a girl in this way.

[Akibono]

Obviously as others say we each have our risk tolerance. I think the chance of STD with a part time SB (is not a real pro) are very very low. But the chance of accidental pregnancy is not low and the consequences very high! You can ruin one or both of your lives pretty quickly with that. I'the give that a lot more thought than than the STD thing.

Additionally "let's get tested" is going to send any good SB packing. To any worthy girl this is the equivalent of saying "I think you are a cheap ****". May as well slap her in the face while you are at it. Sure relationship killer with any girl I would want to be with. I cannot imagine insulting a girl in this way.I agree completely. The risk of a pregnancy and a paternity suit is not worth the risk. You could be on the hook for 21 years of child support. Since this is not a prostitute, you will have little sympathy in a court. The entrapment defense will not work because you chose not to use protection.

[Midwestern]

I agree that getting STD testing done on your SB is probably a waste of time. First, if she's a college student, then she's regularly banging college guys. Remember how everyone was boinking each other in college? Well, it's now a LOT more liberal, especially in the age of Tinder. She's probably letting them bareback her and taking it CIM or CIP or whatever. Second, if she's older, then she probably already has or had an STD, like HPV, given that she's sexually liberal, and given that she's on SA. Third, it'll be a buzz kill for her. Fourth, trying to remain anonymous is key. Getting an STD test done together may jeopardize that anonymity. Eventually, you're not going to marry the SB, so it'll be best if you can disappear with confidence when the time is right. I made the mistake of revealing my identity with a few SBs and they created huge drama for me later on, and I still continue to suffer a little bit because of it.

[Pessimist]

Yeah, I'm an expat in Shanghai. I cannot speak Mandarin, so my mongering is limited to what I can pickup from the ISG forum on Shanghai, and the intel in that forum is pretty good. I contribute a lot to that forum. Steve, in this thread, is also a great contributor to that forum. If you ever come to Shanghai, then I can show you some of the ropes. There are definitely dos and don'ts, especially don'ts. Regarding prices, well, I've only been in China for 9 years, and while I've been here, the prices have more than doubled. For example, a massage and happy ending is about $60 for massage and $40 for tip. This price is pretty much identical to USA Prices for similar experience. Escort prices range a lot. The old days where there were plenty of cheap options, such as BBSs, are over. But yeah, the government was cracking down on stuff, such as saunas. And raids on MPs were becoming more common. However, because of the coronavirus lockdown, it feels like LE and local authorities have lengthened the leash a bit, to allow MP owners and their gals to recover from their financial hardships.Yesterday I sent messages to a handful of girls in Beijing. When I checked out Beijing, there were 15 to 20 online SA at that moment and nearly 125 who had logged in the prior 24 hours. I have to say, the average girl on SA in Beijing vicinity is generally young (I did not use any age or other filters), slim, and quite good looking. I have no idea if they are lying or have used photoshop or uploaded old photos from their youth or what, but just based on their profile alone they look nice. I did not lie in my messages; just said "nice profile, what type of arrangement are you seeking, what is your allowance or gift expectation?" I did not say I will be in Beijing in the near term or anything like that. Surprisingly, 70% to 80% of the girls I pinged replied back to me. This is a much higher percent than I normally experience in my home city in the US. Every single girl (except one) replied back in Mandarin and I had to use Google translate to read it. One said "you are not in Beijing now, sorry I am not interested" (still, she was polite enough to reply). One said "Stable relationship is not less than 3 W per month, suitable to add WeChat" -- she also gave her wechat name at the end which I deleted for this post. Needless to say, I do not have wechat and have no interest anyway. I have no idea what she means by 3 W per month. A couple just gave me access to their photos with no messages, a couple gave me just their wechat names and no other messages, and one said "Are you in a hurry? I rarely read this" (actually, I just saw that this one actually replied in English directly. The only one who did).

So, that is my market survey of SA Beijing scene LOL. I personally have no interest in Beijing of course or any city in China. I do have to say, the majority of the girls look like models, so skinny. Perhaps Asian girls are naturally like that? In my home city, the # of such slim girls can be counted on hands. All these beef fed mid west girls. Know how to twerk their ample booty LOL.

I renewed my 3 month SA subscription in early Feb I think. It should expire soon. Normally, I renew within a week or sometimes even immediately upon expiry. The last 2+ months have been a total waste, and while I keep chatting with new sugar babes for relief of tedium, I am obviously not meeting anyone, least of all new sugarbabes from SA, so that is most of the $240 wasted. I will not renew when this expires until the quarantine is fully behind us and I am comfortable meeting any, and also when restaurants and hotels etc are fully open.

I am curious how much it costs to subscribe to SA in China? For example, Tinder is more expensive than Tantan from my understanding. So, I am curious about SA fee. Personally, SA charges way too much in my view - $80 a month if buying for 3 months, $90 if paying each month. Is significantly more than any dating site is charging. But I don't know if this pricing is the same in all countries.

[Midwestern]

Thanks for checking it out. Based on what you found, the following is possible: (1) Many of those gals are non-pros and are legit, as it is common for older rich guys to have SBs, even out in the open. I have heard girls openly admitting to being an SB or a mistress without feeling ashamed at all. In fact, they were proud, as it verified how attractive they were. (2) Some of the profiles may be run by pimps. This was common with Craigslist and WeChat gals. And so the pics are fake and the gals that show up are pros. But overall, yes, lots of skinny cute gals in China.


Yesterday I sent messages to a handful of girls in Beijing. When I checked out Beijing, there were 15 to 20 online SA at that moment and nearly 125 who had logged in the prior 24 hours. I have to say, the average girl on SA in Beijing vicinity is generally young (I did not use any age or other filters), slim, and quite good looking. I have no idea if they are lying or have used photoshop or uploaded old photos from their youth or what, but just based on their profile alone they look nice. I did not lie in my messages; just said "nice profile, what type of arrangement are you seeking, what is your allowance or gift expectation?" I did not say I will be in Beijing in the near term or anything like that. Surprisingly, 70% to 80% of the girls I pinged replied back to me. This is a much higher percent than I normally experience in my home city in the US. Every single girl (except one) replied back in Mandarin and I had to use Google translate to read it. One said "you are not in Beijing now, sorry I am not interested" (still, she was polite enough to reply). One said "Stable relationship is not less than 3 W per month, suitable to add WeChat" -- she also gave her wechat name at the end which I deleted for this post. Needless to say, I do not have wechat and have no interest anyway. I have no idea what she means by 3 W per month. A couple just gave me access to their photos with no messages, a couple gave me just their wechat names and no other messages, and one said "Are you in a hurry? I rarely read this" (actually, I just saw that this one actually replied in English directly. The only one who did).

So, that is my market survey of SA Beijing scene LOL. I personally have no interest in Beijing of course or any city in China. I do have to say, the majority of the girls look like models, so skinny. Perhaps Asian girls are naturally like that? In my home city, the # of such slim girls can be counted on hands. All these beef fed mid west girls. Know how to twerk their ample booty LOL.

I renewed my 3 month SA subscription in early Feb I think. It should expire soon. Normally, I renew within a week or sometimes even immediately upon expiry. The last 2+ months have been a total waste, and while I keep chatting with new sugar babes for relief of tedium, I am obviously not meeting anyone, least of all new sugarbabes from SA, so that is most of the $240 wasted. I will not renew when this expires until the quarantine is fully behind us and I am comfortable meeting any, and also when restaurants and hotels etc are fully open.

I am curious how much it costs to subscribe to SA in China? For example, Tinder is more expensive than Tantan from my understanding. So, I am curious about SA fee. Personally, SA charges way too much in my view - $80 a month if buying for 3 months, $90 if paying each month. Is significantly more than any dating site is charging. But I don't know if this pricing is the same in all countries..

[Nounce]

I have no idea what she means by 3 W per month. That usually means 30 K which is a lot in this case so I am not sure.

[Midwestern]

That usually means 30 K which is a lot in this case so I am not sure.30 k RMB is about $5000. She is probably interested in being an "er nai. " This means kept mistress in Chinese. It's common for rich guys to have them. My friends in China, both men and women, tease me that I don't have one. They say it must mean that I am poor. I once thought about having an er nai. These gals are usually looking for a rented apartment and a spending allowance. Many MP gals are er nais, and their asking rate is about $600 per month for rent and about $900 per month for spending allowance. So, the quoted 30 k RMB is a lot. She must be young and pretty to ask for that much, but it's a reasonable ask if she is both young and pretty.

[The Cane]

For anybody who might be interested in a Brazilian sugar baby. Or just a plain, straight-up tute! I can recommend porn star Elisa Sanches if tats don't bother you: https://www.riosexsite.com/.

[Pessimist]

For anybody who might be interested in a Brazilian sugar baby. Or just a plain, straight-up tute! I can recommend porn star Elisa Sanches if tats don't bother you: https://www.riosexsite.com/.How much do those girls cost, hourly or whatever basis?

I remember from reading your posts that you like Brazilian girls, is that right? I typically go for skinny White girl look. When choose Latinos, I have tended to pick Skinny fair skinned Colombian girls and Venezuelan girls when available in the US. Haven't had a chance to sample too many Argentinians. The type I like looks like this.

https://www.eurogirlsescort.com/escort/chantal/91028/?list=vusnbr

[AddisDude]

I agree that getting STD testing done on your SB is probably a waste of time. First, if she's a college student, then she's regularly banging college guys. Remember how everyone was boinking each other in college? Well, it's now a LOT more liberal, especially in the age of Tinder. She's probably letting them bareback her and taking it CIM or CIP or whatever. Second, if she's older, then she probably already has or had an STD, like HPV, given that she's sexually liberal, and given that she's on SA. Third, it'll be a buzz kill for her. Fourth, trying to remain anonymous is key. Getting an STD test done together may jeopardize that anonymity. Eventually, you're not going to marry the SB, so it'll be best if you can disappear with confidence when the time is right. I made the mistake of revealing my identity with a few SBs and they created huge drama for me later on, and I still continue to suffer a little bit because of it.STD testing papers are feel good measures, the fact that someone has paper to show you now means nothing about what that person did the night before or few days before, even six month before because it takes time to get symptoms. I have had many sugar babies in NYC and I have used SA when I travel throughout USA and overseas. Majority of the arrangements I had bareback, I don't see everyone but whoever I see I use my best judgement (I avoid, junkies and other glaring issues, no anal) and take the risk when I play, been doing that for decades, BBBJ, BBFS all the way.

[Pessimist]

STD testing papers are feel good measures, the fact that someone has paper to show you now means nothing about what that person did the night before or few days before, even six month before because it takes time to get symptoms. I have had many sugar babies in NYC and I have used SA when I travel throughout USA and overseas. Majority of the arrangements I had bareback, I don't see everyone but whoever I see I use my best judgement (I avoid, junkies and other glaring issues, no anal) and take the risk when I play, been doing that for decades, BBBJ, BBFS all the way.In which cities did you have the best success when you were traveling? In terms of price, easy availability, number and quality of girls, etc. What sort of price range have you experienced between cities.

Always good to compare notes, especially because I did not see your posts in this thread before.

[AddisDude]

In which cities did you have the best success when you were traveling? In terms of price, easy availability, number and quality of girls, etc. What sort of price range have you experienced between cities.

Always good to compare notes, especially because I did not see your posts in this thread before.I have been lurking around but I do participate here and there. I live in the North East USA, so NYC, Philadelphia and DC area is within driving distance for me. NYC has a lot of broke aspiring actors models that need side hustle to pay rent. I had the best success in Miami and Los Angeles. I am not sure why but a lot of girls willing to come to your hotel room if you start talking to them few days in advance of your travel. I have used it in Toronto, London and very good time.

[The Cane]

How much do those girls cost, hourly or whatever basis? I remember from reading your posts that you like Brazilian girls, is that right? I typically go for skinny white girl look.It really depends on the girl. You can contact them on WhatsApp to see what they are asking for. One reason I like Brazil is due to the diversity in the looks of the girls. From blondes to brunettes to redheads, and from black to white to everything in between: https://www.riosexsite.com/.

[SmallWorld21]

I'm currently in Central Florida and I've had exceptional success on SA in the past. All girls and all BBBJWS and BBFS even BBFSCIP and for the most part relatively cheap as in an average of $150 per encounter but a few a little higher. Usually takes a few weeks of chatting to get them trusting and ready to meet has been my experience and then it's off to the races. All of my experiences have been with real college girls and local industry workers such as restaurants, hotels, theme parks etc and just heard about it from their friends and want some extra cash. However it seems dry now because obviously all the girls are scared to come outside because of the covid and I am sensing that the lack of urgency for money is missing because of the stimulus checks and unemployment money is more than they were making anyways. The girls are chatting but still holding strong on sitting at home. What are you guys feeling about the effects of the stimulus on the SA girls in the USA?

[Pessimist]

I have been lurking around but I do participate here and there. I live in the North East USA, so NYC, Philadelphia and DC area is within driving distance for me. NYC has a lot of broke aspiring actors models that need side hustle to pay rent. I had the best success in Miami and Los Angeles. I am not sure why but a lot of girls willing to come to your hotel room if you start talking to them few days in advance of your travel. I have used it in Toronto, London and very good time.Thank you. What sort of price ranges have you seen / paid in these various cities? I assume you did PPM in all your travels, and perhaps a combination of PPM and longer term allowance near your home base?

Interesting that you have used SA significantly in the larger, megalopolis type areas. Have you tried it in smaller cities, say half a million to 1. 5 million type cities? In my experience, they are less expensive and girls are less demanding. Of course, 80%+ of my girls have been in my home base and surroundings and I am lucky that it is a relatively inexpensive area and I still make decent money and that helps.

I lived in LA for a couple of short years a while ago but that was in my pre-SA days. Back then I had less money. I wish I had more in those days. LA does indeed have some super hot chicks -- something about all the aspiring actress pretty girls who flock to the city and end up working as strippers, waitresses or in porn, LOL.

[Pessimist]

I'm currently in Central Florida and I've had exceptional success on SA in the past. All girls and all BBBJWS and BBFS even BBFSCIP and for the most part relatively cheap as in an average of $150 per encounter but a few a little higher. Usually takes a few weeks of chatting to get them trusting and ready to meet has been my experience and then it's off to the races. All of my experiences have been with real college girls and local industry workers such as restaurants, hotels, theme parks etc and just heard about it from their friends and want some extra cash. However it seems dry now because obviously all the girls are scared to come outside because of the covid and I am sensing that the lack of urgency for money is missing because of the stimulus checks and unemployment money is more than they were making anyways. The girls are chatting but still holding strong on sitting at home. What are you guys feeling about the effects of the stimulus on the SA girls in the USA?Interesting to know, thanks for sharing. I had quite a bit of success in Miami, Ft Laud, Palm Beach regions on business travels. Orlando is strictly theme park related travels being the family man I'm LOL, but never thought of it as a mongering destination. Who would have thought all those princess costume chicks were banging sugar daddies in the night? I had a couple of encounters with Tampa Bay Area strippers who were quite hot though. I can believe that prices are low over there, as it is an inexpensive area. Still, $150 for BBFS sounds pretty attractive. Congrats on your success there.

As for stimulus, my experience is actually the opposite. Many girls sound desperate. I am being careful and not meeting anyone at the moment, but one girl just asked me earlier today if I wanted to meet tonight. In the last week alone, 3 girls wanted to meet and at reasonable prices.

[AddisDude]

Thank you. What sort of price ranges have you seen / paid in these various cities? I assume you did PPM in all your travels, and perhaps a combination of PPM and longer term allowance near your home base?

Interesting that you have used SA significantly in the larger, megalopolis type areas. Have you tried it in smaller cities, say half a million to 1. 5 million type cities? In my experience, they are less expensive and girls are less demanding. Of course, 80%+ of my girls have been in my home base and surroundings and I am lucky that it is a relatively inexpensive area and I still make decent money and that helps.

I lived in LA for a couple of short years a while ago but that was in my pre-SA days. Back then I had less money. I wish I had more in those days. LA does indeed have some super hot chicks -- something about all the aspiring actress pretty girls who flock to the city and end up working as strippers, waitresses or in porn, LOL.I travel for work so most of my travels are big cities, so unfortunately no experience in smaller cities. My price range here in the USA ranges from 150 to 250 I have paid 300 rarely, I start chatting ahead of time and meet them at cafe near my hotel and take it from there. Closer to home I have SBs rotating. When I do travel overseas where prostitution is legal, I don't bother turning any dating app, tinder, SA or any of that stuff. I meet girls at clubs, stripclubs, street and take them back to hotel.

[AddisDude]

I'm currently in Central Florida and I've had exceptional success on SA in the past. All girls and all BBBJWS and BBFS even BBFSCIP and for the most part relatively cheap as in an average of $150 per encounter but a few a little higher. Usually takes a few weeks of chatting to get them trusting and ready to meet has been my experience and then it's off to the races. All of my experiences have been with real college girls and local industry workers such as restaurants, hotels, theme parks etc and just heard about it from their friends and want some extra cash. However it seems dry now because obviously all the girls are scared to come outside because of the covid and I am sensing that the lack of urgency for money is missing because of the stimulus checks and unemployment money is more than they were making anyways. The girls are chatting but still holding strong on sitting at home. What are you guys feeling about the effects of the stimulus on the SA girls in the USA?It will take some time to feel the economic pain so give it time.

[Pessimist]

I travel for work so most of my travels are big cities, so unfortunately no experience in smaller cities. My price range here in the USA ranges from 150 to 250 I have paid 300 rarely, I start chatting ahead of time and meet them at cafe near my hotel and take it from there. Closer to home I have SBs rotating. When I do travel overseas where prostitution is legal, I don't bother turning any dating app, tinder, SA or any of that stuff. I meet girls at clubs, stripclubs, street and take them back to hotel.It is actually a very good price for you to do ppms at 150 to 250 in big cities. Definitely better than what I have done, as my range is 200 to 300 with a handful exceeding 300. Perhaps I have been too soft. Congratulations for getting such nice deals!

[Midwestern]

I travel for work so most of my travels are big cities, so unfortunately no experience in smaller cities. My price range here in the USA ranges from 150 to 250 I have paid 300 rarely, I start chatting ahead of time and meet them at cafe near my hotel and take it from there. Closer to home I have SBs rotating. When I do travel overseas where prostitution is legal, I don't bother turning any dating app, tinder, SA or any of that stuff. I meet girls at clubs, stripclubs, street and take them back to hotel.This price range is quite a surprise. But I don't doubt you at all. It's just that in my experience, the price was around 500 for big cities and around 250 in smaller cities. Can I ask which big cities you have gotten this price range? The only big city that I can think of where this price range is possible is Las Vegas, which is a place with a ton of supply. Also, what kind of girls do you go after? From what I understand, black girls and older girls can often be had for less money. Thanks, man.

[AddisDude]

This price range is quite a surprise. But I don't doubt you at all. It's just that in my experience, the price was around 500 for big cities and around 250 in smaller cities. Can I ask which big cities you have gotten this price range? The only big city that I can think of where this price range is possible is Las Vegas, which is a place with a ton of supply. Also, what kind of girls do you go after? From what I understand, black girls and older girls can often be had for less money. Thanks, man.It aggravates me because I travel overseas and 150 gets you a 10 in Brazil or Dominican republic that will translate to 500 in the States. It requires work, I have paid $150 & $300 but those are rare even for me but 200-250 is my standard rate for girls around 7-8 ish, if a girl asks for 350, she will settle for 300 or 250 but she will be offended if you offer her 150 or 200, you feel it out when have your conversation. There is a huge misconception about big cities being expensive, in fact, one time I traveled to smaller town in for work near Knoxville Tennessee and I paid the most there, less to pick from. Big cities are flooded with SB's, NYC is saturated with broke aspiring models who need to see multiple SD's just to pay their monthly dates. Having said that, paying what they asked for makes your life easier and you have less headache, negotiation can be a turn off for her and walk away, I could have paid that extra 50 or 100 which I can afford but blew a deal arguing because I was being stubborn. It is not the best strategy but it works for me, I have monthly budget for fun and I like to see several girls, I don't plan on spending it on one girl I don't care what she looks like. As the saying goes, the only thing better than pussy is "new pussy".

[AddisDude]

It is actually a very good price for you to do ppms at 150 to 250 in big cities. Definitely better than what I have done, as my range is 200 to 300 with a handful exceeding 300. Perhaps I have been too soft. Congratulations for getting such nice deals!$150 is rare, I have had few but most is 200-250 for me, of course they will ask for more but you can talk them down. Usually, call them, talk for a bit, tell them where you are staying and in town for business, if she asks for $300, I will say well I am in town for a business I would to see if you $250, most of the time they cave in. Don't negotiate over text because they will say no because they might not even think you are real or serious.

[LshRoomer]

$150 is rare, I have had few but most is 200-250 for me, of course they will ask for more but you can talk them down. Usually, call them, talk for a bit, tell them where you are staying and in town for business, if she asks for $300, I will say well I am in town for a business I would to see if you $250, most of the time they cave in. Don't negotiate over text because they will say no because they might not even think you are real or serious.That's a good negotiation tactic, not to bargain over text. I agree with you 100%.

As for the prices. I'm usually in the 300 euro range, sometimes less. I've seen plenty ask for 500 euro but that's crazy. That's a bit too high, and for what? They are not offering a service that you can't find elsewhere. LOL.

In the US (not much experience), I've offered 600 for the week and this worked. I was able to see her 3 times. I know this comes out to 200/ meet, but keep in mind she asked for 400 per meeting. LOL. It's like once you throw in a "deal", they get distracted by the possibility of something more long term (as they should).

But hearing that you guys are getting 150 - 200 in Miami, Ft Lauderdale, etc is quite interesting. Something I need to look into. Keep the good info flowing.

[SfoCowboy]

I've been a member for many years on this site, here are my experiences. Hits and flops.

1. Student in Bangalore, India. Wanted to shop. 19 years old. Short and a little chubby but cute face. Great in the bed but greedy as fuck. Didn't meet her again. Shopping damages - 350 $.

2. An graffiti artist in Berlin 23 years. Amazing girl. Too good in the bed. Was with me for 2 days. 500 euros. She said I can give whatever I pleased. Still in touch after it's been many years. I'll definitely meet her again.

3. A girl in Delhi, India 21 years. Make up artist by profession. Met her multiple times and bare backed her too.

4. A techie in Hyderabad. Crazy experience. Amazing attitude. It was a long term relationship and did bareback many times. She found a BF and we decided to split.

5. Student in Prague 19 yrs old. Met her for lunch. Good attitude and she doesn't fuck on first date. Flaked later. No damages other than lunch.

6. German girl in Prague 24 years. Straight to the bed. Hot in the bed. Damage 150.

7. Czech girl in Hyderabad, India 23 years. Only platonic, had to pay for drinks and dinner many times but not high maintenance. Gave her a MacBook as a parting gift when she was leaving India. She was in tears. Went to Prague to meet her and we are still in touch.

8. A photography intern in Mumbai 21 years old. Super cute but shy in the bed. High maintenance for an LTR. Split up with her after 2-3 months.

9. Currently in touch with a Ukrainian hottie 23 years old. Super cute. We were supposed to meet in Barcelona during the Easter Break. Covid spoiled the plans. We will meet once this lockdown eases.

Have many more experiences and I'll take some more space and time to post.

[Darth Coder]

Has anyone had South American SBs? I mean those who live in South America, not the US ones. How much money do Brazilian, Colombian, Venezuelan, Argentinean girls ask for? Given that the average salary in Venezuela is (was?) 33 $, I think that they should be very cheap.

[SamPeter71]

Great post. Any experience in bayarea? Typical costs.


I've been a member for many years on this site, here are my experiences. Hits and flops.

1. Student in Bangalore, India. Wanted to shop. 19 years old. Short and a little chubby but cute face. Great in the bed but greedy as fuck. Didn't meet her again. Shopping damages - 350 $.

2. An graffiti artist in Berlin 23 years. Amazing girl. Too good in the bed. Was with me for 2 days. 500 euros. She said I can give whatever I pleased. Still in touch after it's been many years. I'll definitely meet her again.

3. A girl in Delhi, India 21 years. Make up artist by profession. Met her multiple times and bare backed her too.

4. A techie in Hyderabad. Crazy experience. Amazing attitude. It was a long term relationship and did bareback many times. She found a BF and we decided to split.

5. Student in Prague 19 yrs old. Met her for lunch. Good attitude and she doesn't fuck on first date. Flaked later. No damages other than lunch.

6. German girl in Prague 24 years. Straight to the bed. Hot in the bed. Damage 150..

[Pessimist]

I have experience only in US and W EU. To the question posed by Darth Coder, I am wondering if there is always a neat relationship between local economy and wages and SB prices. Addis Dude says below that he has paid less in big cities than what I paid in my not so big home city. Sfo Cowboy says he paid $350 to a babe in India, which is one of the poorest countries with per capita income of $200 a month. In fact, Sfo says he paid more to his babes in India than what he paid out in Europe. So, to your question Darth, I am not sure if there is a direct correlation -- paid sex prices do seem to vary based on multiple factors including supply / demand, and not strictly based on local wages. I imagine why someone paid $350 in India -- which is a high enough price even in US and for which I can session with a lovely model type young blonde -- is because so few women may be willing to fuck for money in India, especially in the educated, middle class range.

[SeekingHead]

Has anyone had South American SBs? I mean those who live in South America, not the US ones. How much money do Brazilian, Colombian, Venezuelan, Argentinean girls ask for? Given that the average salary in Venezuela is (was?) 33 $, I think that they should be very cheap.I was planning a trip to Med. Colombia this year until the virus halted everything.

From doing research on the Columbia forum & chatting with guys on there, a solid 7/8 girl would be high end $100 US for todo la noche or all night. Pretty much after the first meet up, it was all bareback sex too. Condoms are an afterthought. I'm fixed & unless god is in a miracle mood, I'm not having any more kids. I spent a bit of time as I want a better experience with a instagram type model and am willing to pay for it, from my research $100 to $200 per day will get you a solid 8.5 to 9 girl in Columbia.

For Brazil, Sao Paulo looks like the best option for model quality girls. I'd go to Scandelo, skip seeking arrangements & do a girl in the club, get her # and turn her into a SB. High end for a model quality girl is around 800 reals, with the exchange rate at 5.5 reals to $'s this is around $150 US. I've seen bareback mentioned quite a bit there, so imagine condoms are optional for a lot of the girls. Most of the girls working at Scandelo are not hard hookers but just smoking hot Brazilian girls who are trying to make ends meet.

Also it depends on your language skills, I'm conversationally fluent in Spanish & have lived in Spain for several years, so for me language in Colombia isn't a problem.

[SfoCowboy]

I used to live in the Bay Area and I found someone outside of SA; a student. Lasted a long time and we remain friends now.


Great post. Any experience in bayarea? Typical costs.

[SfoCowboy]

The cost was on the higher side in India as it is difficult to get a well educated girl for a low price. Also, I spend time with the girls. Evening dinner and drinks till the morning. No rush at all.


I have experience only in US and W EU. To the question posed by Darth Coder, I am wondering if there is always a neat relationship between local economy and wages and SB prices. Addis Dude says below that he has paid less in big cities than what I paid in my not so big home city. Sfo Cowboy says he paid $350 to a babe in India, which is one of the poorest countries with per capita income of $200 a month. In fact, Sfo says he paid more to his babes in India than what he paid out in Europe. So, to your question Darth, I am not sure if there is a direct correlation -- paid sex prices do seem to vary based on multiple factors including supply / demand, and not strictly based on local wages. I imagine why someone paid $350 in India -- which is a high enough price even in US and for which I can session with a lovely model type young blonde -- is because so few women may be willing to fuck for money in India, especially in the educated, middle class range.

[Sebastiane]

Has anyone had South American SBs? I mean those who live in South America, not the US ones. How much money do Brazilian, Colombian, Venezuelan, Argentinean girls ask for? Given that the average salary in Venezuela is (was?) 33 $, I think that they should be very cheap.I had a Peruvian girl as my SB for my entire time in Peru on business. I paid her 100 USD for every weekend spent with me in Cusco. It was great. We are still in touch a few years later. She would travel all the way from Arequipa to Cusco to stay with me. I paid the travel cost too and for all meals and stuff if we ate out but that's expected. If we stayed in she cooked for me, cleaned my AirBNB apartment. One weekend she even brought a friend along for a threesome. I paid the friend the same. They were both 21 year old university students and spoke fluent English, my Spanish is non existent!

[Sebastiane]

Great post. Any experience in bayarea? Typical costs.It can vary. In San Francisco I hooked up with an Irish art student for 300 USD for the night including having lunch at a restaurant, then back to my hotel for a fun evening. I ordered sushi using Uber Eats, bought champagne from the shop next door (shockingly for a supposed 4 star hotel they didn't have alcohol in their room service! We fucked. She slept and then left early in the morning, not staying for breakfast. Was fun but not a great lay so didn't see her again. Had another arrangement with a really hot American-Iranian girl and we were meant to meet at a famous steakhouse but she didn't show up. She had wanted 500. I had agreed because she was very hot. I was also in negotiations with a really stunning blonde stripper who was from Texas I think originally but in SF. We first agreed on 500 but on the day she was to come to stay 24 hours she called and said she wanted 800. I didn't want to pay that much so I respectfully declined. Other really beautiful girls in the Bay Area quoted a 1000-2000 USD for a weekend and some wanted a monthly allowance. SBs can be fun and part of it is in the chase itself. I have to say some girls in the Bay Area are absolutely stunning -- what I call 11's. But they know it and their demands reflect it!

I think with Covid19 SBs might be the best approach at the moment.

[Midwestern]

Great post. Any experience in bayarea? Typical costs.Most of my SA experiences were in the Bay Area. Typical PPM was $500. Perhaps not coincidentally, this was also the going rate for the relatively high-end escorts in SF. I guess the PPM SBs quickly figured out market prices. Many of the gals are looking for long term arrangements, probably because their rent is a high fixed cost. For long term arrangements, they are looking for 3 k minimum per month, for 3-4 meets per month. To me, that was ridiculous. And it takes a lot of search time, especially with the Bay Area gals. From what many of these gals told me, there's a lot of young very rich techie nerds in the Bay Area, and they are super horny and have absolutely no problems paying SBs. So, there's a lot of competition for an SD. If you expand your search to within 25 or 50 miles of the Bay Area, you will find some gems. But prices are still high, and of course the travel time becomes ridiculous. Also, keep in mind that the cost of living is high in the Bay Area, so all SBs will try to get as much money as possible. I got lucky a few times though. You have to find the ones that are relatively new to SA, but this advice probably applies to SBs everywhere. I tried SA in other USA Cities and found the price points to be lower and finding SBs to be easier. So, I think the Bay Area is just one of the anomalies in terms of difficulty and pricing. With pricing, don't forget that restaurants, uber, and hotels are all more expensive in the Bay Area as well. Finally, there's plenty of college gals on there. I met several Berkeley gals. But they treated the relationship too formally for my taste. And, they took longer to meet, maybe because there's a lot of interest out there for them. And, they also flaked a LOT, which is not surprising, as college students are super busy with social activities, and there's so much stuff to do in the Bay Area, after all, it's not like they go to school on a traditional college campus (like Penn State or Michigan State or Texas Tech etc.) where there is almost nothing to do. So, I eventually gave up on the college gals in the Bay Area. And besides, I actually found the gals that were at least past their mid-20s to be more fun, as we had more to talk about.

[Pessimist]

Most of my SA experiences were in the Bay Area. Typical PPM was $500. Perhaps not coincidentally, this was also the going rate for the relatively high-end escorts in SF. I guess the PPM SBs quickly figured out market prices. Many of the gals are looking for long term arrangements, probably because their rent is a high fixed cost. For long term arrangements, they are looking for 3 k minimum per month, for 3-4 meets per month. To me, that was ridiculous. And it takes a lot of search time, especially with the Bay Area gals. From what many of these gals told me, there's a lot of young very rich techie nerds in the Bay Area, and they are super horny and have absolutely no problems paying SBs. So, there's a lot of competition for an SD. If you expand your search to within 25 or 50 miles of the Bay Area, you will find some gems. But prices are still high, and of course the travel time becomes ridiculous. Also, keep in mind that the cost of living is high in the Bay Area, so all SBs will try to get as much money as possible. I got lucky a few times though. You have to find the ones that are relatively new to SA, but this advice probably applies to SBs everywhere. I tried SA in other USA Cities and found the price points to be lower and finding SBs to be easier. So, I think the Bay Area is just one of the anomalies in terms of difficulty and pricing. With pricing, don't forget that restaurants, uber, and hotels are all more expensive in the Bay Area as well. Finally, there's plenty of college gals on there. I met several Berkeley gals. But they treated the relationship too formally for my taste. And, they took longer to meet, maybe because there's a lot of interest out there for them. And, they also flaked a LOT, which is not surprising, as college students are super busy with social activities, and there's so much stuff to do in the Bay Area, after all, it's not like they go to school on a traditional college campus (like Penn State or Michigan State or Texas Tech etc.) where there is almost nothing to do. So, I eventually gave up on the college gals in the Bay Area. And besides, I actually found the gals that were at least past their mid-20s to be more fun, as we had more to talk about.My own first hand data points from SF bay area are in sync with your description and price points you enumerated.

[Gamer76]

The cost was on the higher side in India as it is difficult to get a well educated girl for a low price. Also, I spend time with the girls. Evening dinner and drinks till the morning. No rush at all.You can get low price only when you search for a long time with patience and hit and trial. Regarding your Delhi girl experience was she a Muslim girl by any chance. Because I also know of a similar profile with same profession.

[SamPeter71]

Thanks for sharing. I think we may be better off taking one-week trip to Bogota / Medellin every month with this kind of money.


Most of my SA experiences were in the Bay Area. Typical PPM was $500. Perhaps not coincidentally, this was also the going rate for the relatively high-end escorts in SF. I guess the PPM SBs quickly figured out market prices. Many of the gals are looking for long term arrangements, probably because their rent is a high fixed cost. For long term arrangements, they are looking for 3 k minimum per month, for 3-4 meets per month. To me, that was ridiculous. And it takes a lot of search time, especially with the Bay Area gals. From what many of these gals told me, there's a lot of young very rich techie nerds in the Bay Area, and they are super horny and have absolutely no problems paying SBs. So, there's a lot of competition for an SD. If you expand your search to within 25 or 50 miles of the Bay Area, you will find some gems. But prices are still high, and of course the travel time becomes ridiculous. Also, keep in mind that the cost of living is high in the Bay Area, so all SBs will try to get as much money as possible. I got lucky a few times though. You have to find the ones that are relatively new to SA, but this advice probably applies to SBs everywhere. I tried SA in other USA Cities and found the price points to be lower and finding SBs to be easier. So, I think the Bay Area is just one of the anomalies in terms of difficulty and pricing. With pricing, don't forget that restaurants, uber, and hotels are all more expensive in the Bay Area as well. Finally, there's plenty of college gals on there. I met several Berkeley gals. But they treated the relationship too formally for my taste. And, they took longer to meet, maybe because there's a lot of interest out there for them. And, they also flaked a LOT, which is not surprising, as college students are super busy with social activities, and there's so much stuff to do in the Bay Area, after all, it's not like they go to school on a traditional college campus (like Penn State or Michigan State or Texas Tech etc.) where there is almost nothing to do. So, I eventually gave up on the college gals in the Bay Area. And besides, I actually found the gals that were at least past their mid-20s to be more fun, as we had more to talk about.

[SfoCowboy]

No. She is not a Moslem girl.


You can get low price only when you search for a long time with patience and hit and trial. Regarding your Delhi girl experience was she a Muslim girl by any chance. Because I also know of a similar profile with same profession.

[SfoCowboy]

1. Medico from Hyderabad, India. In for the experience. From a very well off family. Partied and had little fun. No sex. Did shopping once. Damages 150 $. Went out on multiple dinner dates.

2. Exchange student in Hyderabad India, had a good time, only shopping. Did multiple times and also bareback. She moved back to Boston, we did a trip to Vegas last May. Only in for fun and some shopping. No serious damages.

3. Back packer from the Netherlands, bought flight tickets from Mumbai to Bangalore. Showed her the city, took her out for dinner etc. Two days of unlimited fun without any allowance. Great experience.

4. Columbian girl in Berlin, she was a student. Flaked after dinner.

5. Student from Mumbai, India, got her placed in a job after studies. Amazing time in the bed, bareback many times. Shopping damages only. About 200-300 $ depending on what she buys.

More to come some other time. Cheers!

[SfoCowboy]

I met this amazing student when I lived in the Bay Area, not through SA. I think I was too lucky to find her. Damages pretty low. Had her for more than 15 months. We are great friends. Used to give her 1000 $ a month and shopping sometimes. Great in looks and bed. Did bareback only after 2-3 months. We remain great friends. She works for a large tech company now. I spend my weekends with her whenever I visit there. She doesn't take any allowance now. She is kind of nerdy. Too many stories to write about here.


Most of my SA experiences were in the Bay Area. Typical PPM was $500. Perhaps not coincidentally, this was also the going rate for the relatively high-end escorts in SF. I guess the PPM SBs quickly figured out market prices. Many of the gals are looking for long term arrangements, probably because their rent is a high fixed cost. For long term arrangements, they are looking for 3 k minimum per month, for 3-4 meets per month. To me, that was ridiculous. And it takes a lot of search time, especially with the Bay Area gals. From what many of these gals told me, there's a lot of young very rich techie nerds in the Bay Area, and they are super horny and have absolutely no problems paying SBs. So, there's a lot of competition for an SD. If you expand your search to within 25 or 50 miles of the Bay Area, you will find some gems. But prices are still high, and of course the travel time becomes ridiculous. Also, keep in mind that the cost of living is high in the Bay Area, so all SBs will try to get as much money as possible. I got lucky a few times though. You have to find the ones that are relatively new to SA, but this advice probably applies to SBs everywhere. I tried SA in other USA Cities and found the price points to be lower and finding SBs to be easier. So, I think the Bay Area is just one of the anomalies in terms of difficulty and pricing. With pricing, don't forget that restaurants, uber, and hotels are all more expensive in the Bay Area as well. Finally, there's plenty of college gals on there. I met several Berkeley gals. But they treated the relationship too formally for my taste. And, they took longer to meet, maybe because there's a lot of interest out there for them. And, they also flaked a LOT, which is not surprising, as college students are super busy with social activities, and there's so much stuff to do in the Bay Area, after all, it's not like they go to school on a traditional college campus (like Penn State or Michigan State or Texas Tech etc.) where there is almost nothing to do. So, I eventually gave up on the college gals in the Bay Area. And besides, I actually found the gals that were at least past their mid-20s to be more fun, as we had more to talk about.

[SeekingHead]

Thanks for sharing. I think we may be better off taking one-week trip to Bogota / Medellin every month with this kind of money.Brazil is looking pretty tasty right now the exchange rate has soared to 5. 83 reals to the dollar, the dollar is at a all time high. A super model type girl in Scandalo is 800 reals for all night.

[Steve 9696]

My own first hand data points from SF bay area are in sync with your description and price points you enumerated.I find a strong correlation between escort pricing on P411 and what SBs charge. Of course the SB is two to four hours (or more) and the escort is for just an hour for the same price.

Here is a sampling. Each price a different girl:

Detroit $300 (could have gotten lower — first go at this).

LA $300 $400.

Miami $300.

Nashville $200 300 300.

NYC $400 400 400 (but 2 of 3 were disappointed—$500 is more right).

Las Vegas $400 400 400.

I would say the Detroit girl, the $200 Nashville girl and the $300 LA girl were second tier. All the rest top shelf.

[SfoCowboy]

Wow! That's really great to hear. On my bucket list!


Brazil is looking pretty tasty right now the exchange rate has soared to 5. 83 reals to the dollar, the dollar is at a all time high. A super model type girl in Scandalo is 800 reals for all night.

[SfoCowboy]

My learnings from sugar dating -.

1. These girls need money, the more you give the more they ask. Especially in a long term relationship.

2. If you find one who isn't greedy hold on to her; it won't last forever but 1-2 years is a great time frame.

3. Take time in finding the right girl, don't bargain on cash. My request to those girls. I don't bargain your allowance but I ask for more time. Most of the girls agree to spend more time. Some might cut the allowance instead.

4. When you get into long term, be clear to the girl that you'the pay ppm for the first few meetings. Once your comfortable only then you go for long term.

5. I mostly dated students; could guide them in their careers. They fall for it big time.

6. Nerdy girls are the best.


I find a strong correlation between escort pricing on P411 and what SBs charge. Of course the SB is two to four hours (or more) and the escort is for just an hour for the same price.

Here is a sampling. Each price a different girl:

Detroit $300 (could have gotten lower first go at this).

LA $300 $400.

Miami $300.

Nashville $200 300 300.

NYC $400 400 400 (but 2 of 3 were disappointed$500 is more right).

Las Vegas $400 400 400.

I would say the Detroit girl, the $200 Nashville girl and the $300 LA girl were second tier. All the rest top shelf.

[Artisttyp]

Do most of you guys lie about your income and what happens when the girls go over to your house and see your Toyota in the driveway? How do you keep with appearances if you don't have them? It seems to me like both of you are trying to con each other KNOWING exactly what you are doing.

Has Covid affected SA in a positive or negative way?

[SfoCowboy]

I quoted less than what I earn. Also, I used to take a good car but not a fancy car. Try to rent one. Never took them home on first dates even though I'm single. A Lexus would be good enough. I avoided taking my personal car many times.

In India, I hire a cab with a driver for 8 hours to chauffeur me around. Can rates are pretty low. I never had issues with looks. It's about how well you're groomed. I always insist on a video call before meeting for the first time. If not I avoid.


Do most of you guys lie about your income and what happens when the girls go over to your house and see your Toyota in the driveway? How do you keep with appearances if you don't have them? It seems to me like both of you are trying to con each other KNOWING exactly what you are doing.

Has Covid affected SA in a positive or negative way?

[Steve 9696]

My learnings from sugar dating -.

1. These girls need money, the more you give the more they ask. Especially in a long term relationship.

2. If you find one who isn't greedy hold on to her; it won't last forever but 1-2 years is a great time frame.

3. Take time in finding the right girl, don't bargain on cash. My request to those girls. I don't bargain your allowance but I ask for more time. Most of the girls agree to spend more time. Some might cut the allowance instead.

4. When you get into long term, be clear to the girl that you'the pay ppm for the first few meetings. Once your comfortable only then you go for long term.

5. I mostly dated students; could guide them in their careers. They fall for it big time.

6. Nerdy girls are the best.Some good points in here. All of mine have been ST so I don't have any LT experience to bring to the table. I do think the girls look more for $$ than time. One of my very best hotties was in London. She wanted 400 I think. And I had said 200. (pounds). She came back and said 250 and I'll stay as long as you like. Hitting 250 was critically important to her. Her time was not. This is very different from an escort where literally time is money.

Girls in their early twenties SAY they want advice. But they don't really. They are free spirits and anytime you give her advice that might be a difficult choice she will just get pouty for you acting like her dad. She wants a sophisticated gentleman boyfriend but not one who gives them tough love like their dad. Even a pen pal SB I have who is platonic so I don't mind giving her tough love she totally ignores it and then suffers later. LOL. I did edit her resume a bunch, though, which she appreciated and accepted. It was a train wreck. LOL.

[Midwestern]

Do most of you guys lie about your income and what happens when the girls go over to your house and see your Toyota in the driveway? How do you keep with appearances if you don't have them? It seems to me like both of you are trying to con each other KNOWING exactly what you are doing.

Has Covid affected SA in a positive or negative way?
Usual lies that SDs tell:

(1) height (by an inch or two, especially guys under 6 feet tall).

(2) income / wealth.

(3) photo (photo is usually a few years old.

(4) age (only if we are in our 50's and beyond).

(5) location (usually, we pick a nearby location.

(6) body type.

Usual lies that SBs tell:

(1) education (about half of them do not have as much education as they claim).

(2) photo (heavily photo shopped).

(3) location (they usually pick a nearby location).

(4) smoking (those addicted to cigarettes or pot usually just they are light smokers).

(5) age (if in 30's, will shave a few years, if in 40's, will shave almost a decade).

(6) body type.

But the gals really do NOT care what you drive, how you dress, what your home looks like, etc. All they care about is what you will pay them and what kind of time you can show them (if you can take them out to nice restaurants, hotels, outings).

[Midwestern]

My learnings from sugar dating -.

1. These girls need money, the more you give the more they ask. Especially in a long term relationship.

2. If you find one who isn't greedy hold on to her; it won't last forever but 1-2 years is a great time frame.

3. Take time in finding the right girl, don't bargain on cash. My request to those girls. I don't bargain your allowance but I ask for more time. Most of the girls agree to spend more time. Some might cut the allowance instead.

4. When you get into long term, be clear to the girl that you'the pay ppm for the first few meetings. Once your comfortable only then you go for long term.

5. I mostly dated students; could guide them in their careers. They fall for it big time.

6. Nerdy girls are the best.All good points, but point (4) is tricky. If you are paying 500 PPM, and then later convert to LT arrangement, both of you will be doing the mental accounting all the time. She will try to achieve an average of at least 500 per date, while you are trying to get the average below 500 per date. Also, she will be more prone to canceling dates, usually at the last minute. Well, this is what happened to me, at least. The only times that LT arrangements worked out for me were when we had instant and genuine chemistry. When they like you so much that they want to see you all the time, and don't want you to leave. In other words, it felt like a real GFE from the start. And so they became LT from the start and financial arrangements were not never explicitly discussed (most of the time, but not always). One gal gave me a key to her place after I spent the night on our first date.

[Pessimist]

Do most of you guys lie about your income and what happens when the girls go over to your house and see your Toyota in the driveway? How do you keep with appearances if you don't have them? It seems to me like both of you are trying to con each other KNOWING exactly what you are doing.

Has Covid affected SA in a positive or negative way?A few things:

A. Girl seeing my house will be a disaster beyond repair. Will never happen to me. I am fiercely protective of my identity and if a girl will somehow figure me out and knocks on my door I will refuse to talk and call police or take my gun out and tell her to get the fuck out of my property as she is trespassing.

B. There is very little correlation between net worth and the car one drives. The senior partners in my small firm all are worth more than $10 M and two are above $25 M and none drive anything fancy. One recently bought a lower end Tesla and he was sheepish about it.

I personally drive a $20 grand car but I said this before, it costs me $60 grand a year for my kids' private school. We spend our money how we choose to. I could not give a flying fuck what people think of me most of the time because I already have a lot of financial security and very comfortable in my own skin and don't need to impress a girl that I am paying to fuck.

I cut my stated net worth on the site to less than half, although to be honest if my wife finds this and drags me to court it will indeed be cut more than half. In fact I falsified pretty much every piece of info I listed on the site.

I never had a sugar babe who cared about net worth anyway. They are getting ppm or sometimes a weekly allowance. They know we are not getting married. I make it very clear upfront that a relationship is out of question.

[SeekingHead]

A few things:

A. Girl seeing my house will be a disaster beyond repair. Will never happen to me. I am fiercely protective of my identity and if a girl will somehow figure me out and knocks on my door I will refuse to talk and call police or take my gun out and tell her to get the fuck out of my property as she is trespassing.

B. There is very little correlation between net worth and the car one drives. The senior partners in my small firm all are worth more than $10 M and two are above $25 M and none drive anything fancy. One recently bought a lower end Tesla and he was sheepish about it.

I personally drive a $20 grand car but I said this before, it costs me $60 grand a year for my kids' private school. We spend our money how we choose to. I could not give a flying fuck what people think of me most of the time because I already have a lot of financial security and very comfortable in my own skin and don't need to impress a girl that I am paying to fuck.

I cut my stated net worth on the site to less than half, although to be honest if my wife finds this and drags me to court it will indeed be cut more than half. In fact I falsified pretty much every piece of info I listed on the site.

I never had a sugar babe who cared about net worth anyway. They are getting ppm or sometimes a weekly allowance. They know we are not getting married. I make it very clear upfront that a relationship is out of question.I have a net worth over a million & I had a 2001 Volkswagen Passat as a daily driver till the AC died in Savannah in 2018. I still miss that car as it was a blast to drive, I had a the 5 speed manual model with leather, bought it brand new in 2001.

[Elvis 2008]

A. Girl seeing my house will be a disaster beyond repair. Will never happen to me. I am fiercely protective of my identity and if a girl will somehow figure me out and knocks on my door I will refuse to talk and call police or take my gun out and tell her to get the fuck out of my property as she is trespassing.



I never had a sugar babe who cared about net worth anyway. They are getting ppm or sometimes a weekly allowance. They know we are not getting married. I make it very clear upfront that a relationship is out of question.Sigh. Pessimist, you are living in a dream world. You get a phone number, license plate, and you can check out anyone on line. I bet just from your license plate that I could find out how much you paid for your car, where you live, and how much you paid for your house in a matter of minutes. Your privacy is an illusion these days.

I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever. The main thing is that you find women who are trustworthy and believe it or not, most are. The last thing most women want to do is fuck up a relationship. To be honest, the women I was after were so hot getting a rich, successful guy was not a problem for any of them. That is what you should be after, the most selective women there are. They have so many options it is ridiculous.

[Elvis 2008]

But the gals really do NOT care what you drive, how you dress, what your home looks like, etc. All they care about is what you will pay them and what kind of time you can show them (if you can take them out to nice restaurants, hotels, outings).Yes, MW, I agree. The only ones who are not like that are the ones who are naive.

[Artisttyp]

So do most encounters happen in hotels?

[Midwestern]

So do most encounters happen in hotels?Are you talking about the first encounter? If so, then how would that work? You book the hotel before you meet? This would be ideal, so that you guys can just waltz into the room after a few drinks. BUT, what if there's no chemistry when you meet, or what if she does not even show up? This happens often for first meetings, and then it means you booked the room for nothing. Or, you could book the hotel after chemistry is established. If so, then you will have to book the hotel on an app (or at the front desk) and then pick up the keys at the front desk. But then the gal will instantly know your real identity when you guys are checking in to get the keys. And besides, the whole process of checking into a hotel takes a while, so it is kind of a buzz kill. So this is why I just do a meet and greet for the first meeting. To establish chemistry. I will boink them later. There have been numerous occasions where I got lucky on the first encounter and we just went back to her place. BTW, if I were traveling, then yeah, make the encounter at the hotel. You are staying there anyway. So, there is no waste if she does not show or you don't like each other.

[Midwestern]

Sigh. Pessimist, you are living in a dream world. You get a phone number, license plate, and you can check out anyone on line. I bet just from your license plate that I could find out how much you paid for your car, where you live, and how much you paid for your house in a matter of minutes. Your privacy is an illusion these days.

I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever. The main thing is that you find women who are trustworthy and believe it or not, most are. The last thing most women want to do is fuck up a relationship. To be honest, the women I was after were so hot getting a rich, successful guy was not a problem for any of them. That is what you should be after, the most selective women there are. They have so many options it is ridiculous.Yeah, I agree, it is impossible to hide your identity. I have said this before. I have been super careful, like using taxis, paying with cash, using a app with for calling and texting, etc. , but gals can still find my identity. I know this to be a fact because some viewed me on LinkedIn. I even asked a few of them how they found my true identity, and they usually replied that it wasn't difficult. But most gals never found my true identity. It's not that they are trustworthy. Instead, it's that most of them don't give a shit who I really am.

[WindAngel]

I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever.Let me guess, you are not married.

[SfoCowboy]

Good point. It's tricky, yes. We need to negotiate clearly and if we see any sign of drop outs in the last minute we know that the time is up. It's better we cut our losses and exit. This is where our judgement comes in.

Once I finalise an arrangement I block the girl on sa. I have a different ID with a different city to check if the girl is still active on the site. If she is still active that means she is still wanting a better deal. We need to take an appropriate decision accordingly. I cut one girl in 2 months as I knew she was hunting for a better deal. I got out of it. We need to handle it appropriately.

Personally, I prefer a young exclusive students. They take time to finalise but once done they have little time to hunt for a better deal. Nerdy girls like to keep their grades up. The girl I had in California used to bring her books and laptop and study at my place over the weekends. I'm single and she used to have a spare key of my home. I knew her full identity and her character before I did this. This was after 6 months or so into the arrangement. She was a gem. Complete girl friend material.

Also, California is expensive for this. I felt that Latina students in Barcelona were economical.


All good points, but point (4) is tricky. If you are paying 500 PPM, and then later convert to LT arrangement, both of you will be doing the mental accounting all the time. She will try to achieve an average of at least 500 per date, while you are trying to get the average below 500 per date. Also, she will be more prone to canceling dates, usually at the last minute. Well, this is what happened to me, at least. The only times that LT arrangements worked out for me were when we had instant and genuine chemistry. When they like you so much that they want to see you all the time, and don't want you to leave. In other words, it felt like a real GFE from the start. And so they became LT from the start and financial arrangements were not never explicitly discussed (most of the time, but not always). One gal gave me a key to her place after I spent the night on our first date.

[SfoCowboy]

A burner phone with no apps other than WhatsApp and Uber help. I try my best to hide true identity but as I'm single it's not going to make a difference to me if they know my identity. I still need my privacy. No one found my real identity as far as I know unless I voluntarily shared.


Yeah, I agree, it is impossible to hide your identity. I have said this before. I have been super careful, like using taxis, paying with cash, using a app with for calling and texting, etc. , but gals can still find my identity. I know this to be a fact because some viewed me on LinkedIn. I even asked a few of them how they found my true identity, and they usually replied that it wasn't difficult. But most gals never found my true identity. It's not that they are trustworthy. Instead, it's that most of them don't give a shit who I really am.

[SfoCowboy]

I rarely chased models / aspiring models for LTR. There was this amazing girl from Mumbai, a model I met and we hung out a few times for drinks. She agreed for 1500 $ a month LTR. 6-8 meets a month with each meeting lasting from evening till next morning or over a weekend. She agreed for 250 $ a night for the first 4 meets. Somehow she became greedy and told me that she needs money and wants a monthly allowance to be given in advance. I politely dropped off. Girls who cannot keep their commitment are a strict no go.

My personal choice is students. Not 9/10 but more like 7/8.


Sigh. Pessimist, you are living in a dream world. You get a phone number, license plate, and you can check out anyone on line. I bet just from your license plate that I could find out how much you paid for your car, where you live, and how much you paid for your house in a matter of minutes. Your privacy is an illusion these days.

I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever. The main thing is that you find women who are trustworthy and believe it or not, most are. The last thing most women want to do is fuck up a relationship. To be honest, the women I was after were so hot getting a rich, successful guy was not a problem for any of them. That is what you should be after, the most selective women there are. They have so many options it is ridiculous.

[Pessimist]

Sigh. Pessimist, you are living in a dream world. You get a phone number, license plate, and you can check out anyone on line. I bet just from your license plate that I could find out how much you paid for your car, where you live, and how much you paid for your house in a matter of minutes. Your privacy is an illusion these days.

I never had a problem with a SB and my home life ever. The main thing is that you find women who are trustworthy and believe it or not, most are. The last thing most women want to do is fuck up a relationship. To be honest, the women I was after were so hot getting a rich, successful guy was not a problem for any of them. That is what you should be after, the most selective women there are. They have so many options it is ridiculous.Well, all I can say is that I have been on SA and other sugar sites for 4 years. A large majority of my arrangements, which have now reached several dozen girls in total in that time frame, are in my home city vicinity and less than 60 miles of me. I do drive my own car, sometimes have given a ride to some sugar babes in my car. Till now, my identity has not been blown. If someone figured me out, they never blurted it to me and for sure no one has knocked on my door step. If some girl wants to create mischief and trouble and makes the effort to track me down, perhaps she can. I don't deny it. Perhaps the other due diligence I do, the sense you have for girls which makes you weed out who could be such miscreants, is helping me. I would and't know, but so far I have been lucky or prudent or both. I am just saying that if ever a girl comes to my door step, that's what I will do, which is have zero dialog with her, slam the door, and either threaten or call the police. I also tend not to have extended very long term arrangements and there is only a minimal amount of emotional attachment on both sides. So, that may be another factor that's been helpful.

On these sites, we all have varying degrees of experience. I realize some people had their identity blown. I don't know how that happened, what they did and did not do, but you can't assume that everyone has the same experience. For some of us with families, identity protection is paramount. It may happen that we will have identity blown, but if we expect that identity will be compromised we will not even enter these arrangements. It is like, you know there is a danger of car accident every time you drive, but if you think the danger is almost a certainty in some specific area, you will avoid that area.

[DramaFree11]

I rarely chased models / aspiring models for LTR. There was this amazing girl from Mumbai, a model I met and we hung out a few times for drinks. She agreed for 1500 $ a month LTR. 6-8 meets a month with each meeting lasting from evening till next morning or over a weekend. She agreed for 250 $ a night for the first 4 meets. Somehow she became greedy and told me that she needs money and wants a monthly allowance to be given in advance. I politely dropped off. Girls who cannot keep their commitment are a strict no go.

My personal choice is students. Not 9/10 but more like 7/8.Same thing happened to me, she was insulted that I would not pay her in advance, no way these girls are too crazy. She later asked to start the arrangement again, but was always asking for more or crazy demands.

[SeekingHead]

So do most encounters happen in hotels?Usually my first meet up with sex is in a hotel, this way if they are batshit crazy, they don't know where I live. First meet & greet, a couple of days later a dinner date, get a drink either at the hotel bar or someplace close, & then to the hotel room. After the first meetup, it's usually my house.

I like to host for a # of reasons.

1.) I don't live in a complete baller pad, but I have a 5 bedroom 4 k square foot house in the north Atlanta burbs, with a walkout basement, jacuzzi, & a king sized bed in my room.

2.) I like to smoke weed and have sex, I like to avoid risk while driving with weed as it's illegal in my state.

3.) When I pay her to leave after a few hours, I can go back upstairs to the bedroom & go to sleep, no 1/2 hour trip home.

4.) No 12 o'clock checkout, if I put a all nighter in with a girl.

The current girl is completely fine with this arrangement & this is what I look for.

[Artisttyp]

Are you talking about the first encounter? If so, then how would that work? You book the hotel before you meet? This would be ideal, so that you guys can just waltz into the room after a few drinks. BUT, what if there's no chemistry when you meet, or what if she does not even show up? This happens often for first meetings, and then it means you booked the room for nothing. Or, you could book the hotel after chemistry is established. If so, then you will have to book the hotel on an app (or at the front desk) and then pick up the keys at the front desk. But then the gal will instantly know your real identity when you guys are checking in to get the keys. And besides, the whole process of checking into a hotel takes a while, so it is kind of a buzz kill. So this is why I just do a meet and greet for the first meeting. To establish chemistry. I will boink them later. There have been numerous occasions where I got lucky on the first encounter and we just went back to her place. BTW, if I were traveling, then yeah, make the encounter at the hotel. You are staying there anyway. So, there is no waste if she does not show or you don't like each other.Good Info Thanks.

So when SEX does happen it is usually at her place or a hotel or do you ever bring an SA date back to your own home?

It seems like hotel cost plus date plus allowance is not too far off from taking a 3/4 day mongering trip eventually. Am I missing something?

I'd be willing to do something like 1 k per month. Maybe 1 session a week for an hour or two full service. Yes / No?

And what about Covid. Has it not ruined SA for the time being or has it evolved more since Covid?

Thanks.

[SfoCowboy]

If you find a reliable girl in SA then it's safer in these covid times. If you're thinking just wham bam thank you mam then your best bet would be a mongering trip. I look for a GFE mostly. The SA girls are less fucked and you have better chances of having a good time in the bed. I've done bareback with many of the SA girls and I'd never do that with an escort. I've experienced FKKs and it's a cool concept for pick and fuck.


Good Info Thanks.

So when SEX does happen it is usually at her place or a hotel or do you ever bring an SA date back to your own home?

It seems like hotel cost plus date plus allowance is not too far off from taking a 3/4 day mongering trip eventually. Am I missing something?

I'd be willing to do something like 1 k per month. Maybe 1 session a week for an hour or two full service. Yes / No?

And what about Covid. Has it not ruined SA for the time being or has it evolved more since Covid?

Thanks.

[Pessimist]

Good Info Thanks.

So when SEX does happen it is usually at her place or a hotel or do you ever bring an SA date back to your own home?

It seems like hotel cost plus date plus allowance is not too far off from taking a 3/4 day mongering trip eventually. Am I missing something?

I'd be willing to do something like 1 k per month. Maybe 1 session a week for an hour or two full service. Yes / No?

And what about Covid. Has it not ruined SA for the time being or has it evolved more since Covid?

Thanks.I have written about Corona and the impact it has had on Sugar babe attitudes in this thread.

$1 K per month is not a whole lot, especially if you expect a weekly fuck. If you can meet the girl at your own place, it is possible. Perhaps if you can snag some girls as Addis Dude did for $150, it is possible. In my experience, 200 to 300 has been more common. If you have to spend any money on hotels, it cuts into the budget for the girl. Of course, this also depends on who is the girl. 20-25 age group slender white girls with pretty faces command a high premium. If you are seeking Latino, Black girls, or older girls, or not such model looking types, you can stretch your budget. I have to say Asians in the US tend to have inflated expectations and Never had any Indian girls but SFO experience kinda makes sense to me as a Indian girls do tend to have princess attitude to sex.

Find a good girl, try her a couple of times and then ask her for a monthly arrangement at $1 K. Tell her that you are at the limit of your budget. If she declines, try someone else.

[Artisttyp]

Thank You for all the responses. An interesting thread indeed.

[SeekingHead]

I have written about Corona and the impact it has had on Sugar babe attitudes in this thread.

$1 K per month is not a whole lot, especially if you expect a weekly fuck. If you can meet the girl at your own place, it is possible. Perhaps if you can snag some girls as Addis Dude did for $150, it is possible. In my experience, 200 to 300 has been more common. If you have to spend any money on hotels, it cuts into the budget for the girl. Of course, this also depends on who is the girl. 20-25 age group slender white girls with pretty faces command a high premium. If you are seeking Latino, Black girls, or older girls, or not such model looking types, you can stretch your budget. I have to say Asians in the US tend to have inflated expectations and Never had any Indian girls but SFO experience kinda makes sense to me as a Indian girls do tend to have princess attitude to sex.

Find a good girl, try her a couple of times and then ask her for a monthly arrangement at $1 K. Tell her that you are at the limit of your budget. If she declines, try someone else.Allowances vary greatly depending upon where you live. My current girl is $1200 a month & I see her usually 2 x a week for 3 to 5 hours, it's like having a girlfriend come over. She is a 25 year old white, grad student, 5'1 about 130 lbs, cute a solid 7. She wouldn't be my first pick at a bar but I would take her home every night with no complaints. I used to live in Savannah Ga. & was in Jacksonville quite a bit for work, $150 to 200 ppm was pretty standard for a 6/7 girl. A solid 7/8 college aged girl was $200 to $250. I had a solid 9 girl who was only 144 cm tall & 40 kg, she would have been a solid 9. 5 if she was 152 cm tall, I did one ppm at $400 with her. Complete GFE all bareback, we had sex 2 x for around 3 hours. I immediately scooped her up on a $2 k a month allowance where she was basically a girlfriend for 6 months.

[AddisDude]

Good Info Thanks.

So when SEX does happen it is usually at her place or a hotel or do you ever bring an SA date back to your own home?

It seems like hotel cost plus date plus allowance is not too far off from taking a 3/4 day mongering trip eventually. Am I missing something?

I'd be willing to do something like 1 k per month. Maybe 1 session a week for an hour or two full service. Yes / No?

And what about Covid. Has it not ruined SA for the time being or has it evolved more since Covid?

Thanks.It is easier for me because I travel, so always I have hotel room, I have conversation in advance, book a meeting at cafe next to my hotel and off to business in my room. Dinner, bull shitting about future prospect is very important, if she doesn't see potential then she will try to get the max she can immediately out of you. Dinner date first time only, after that just book the room by the hour and do your deed, keep in mind you always have negotiation power, she needs money to pay her bills you can always masturbate and go to sleep.

My experience Black, Latina / Spanish and white girls (no experience with Asian / Indian), personal preference I like girls with some ass to smack on. I avoid girls with inflated sense of entitlement demanding $$$ to be seen next to you. I can afford it but I refuse to do it. I am here for the experience of the variety not to prove a point to someone for banging some delusional self-absorbed chick. I see multiple girls my rule is girls who are pleasant and who really need the help looks 7-8 ish. I got a 19 year old gorgeous latina girl, who doesn't go out much was extremely grateful for a nice dinner and 150 dollars because that is how much she makes working all day at her minimum wage job. If you offer a girl $1200 a month to see her twice a week, that is essentially $150 per session. Like I said that is very rare 90% of my payment is 200-300. DO not text a random SB offering 150-200 per session most will be offended and won't respond back to you. However when the women meet you and discuss and see the potential for monthly arrangement they will accept your offer. I have a budget for, sugar relationship, strip clubs, and other entertainment I usually pay 1200/1500 a month per SB, I spend somewhere between 5,000 to 7,000 a month for this hobby, very discipline always on budget.

Everyone is different but I like variety because I always get bored and would want to sample new girl no matter how great she looks. As the saying goes, the only thing better than pussy is new pussy.

[SeekingHead]

It is easier for me because I travel, so always I have hotel room, I have conversation in advance, book a meeting at cafe next to my hotel and off to business in my room. Dinner, bull shitting about future prospect is very important, if she doesn't see potential then she will try to get the max she can immediately out of you. Dinner date first time only, after that just book the room by the hour and do your deed, keep in mind you always have negotiation power, she needs money to pay her bills you can always masturbate and go to sleep.

My experience Black, Latina / Spanish and white girls (no experience with Asian / Indian), personal preference I like girls with some ass to smack on. I avoid girls with inflated sense of entitlement demanding $$$ to be seen next to you. I can afford it but I refuse to do it. I am here for the experience of the variety not to prove a point to someone for banging some delusional self-absorbed chick. I see multiple girls my rule is girls who are pleasant and who really need the help looks 7-8 ish. I got a 19 year old gorgeous latina girl, who doesn't go out much was extremely grateful for a nice dinner and 150 dollars because that is how much she makes working all day at her minimum wage job. If you offer a girl $1200 a month to see her twice a week, that is essentially $150 per session. Like I said that is very rare 90% of my payment is 200-300. DO not text a random SB offering 150-200 per session most will be offended and won't respond back to you. However when the women meet you and discuss and see the potential for monthly arrangement they will accept your offer. I have a budget for, sugar relationship, strip clubs, and other entertainment I usually pay 1200/1500 a month per SB, I spend somewhere between 5,000 to 7,000 a month for this hobby, very discipline always on budget..Sounds similar to my situation, I was traveling quite a bit last year for work, this year I'm in Atlanta & there are plenty of clients here so no travel. I only have a $3 k a month budget which is plenty to play on around this area, like you I am very disciplined on my budget. I never touch my savings, always hit my $1500 a month savings contribution & have my 401 k maxed at $19 k a year, I have over $800 k in savings & retirement while in my 40's, plus a house paid off.

What part of the world are you in?

[Midwestern]

Sounds similar to my situation, I was traveling quite a bit last year for work, this year I'm in Atlanta & there are plenty of clients here so no travel. I only have a $3 k a month budget which is plenty to play on around this area, like you I am very disciplined on my budget. I never touch my savings, always hit my $1500 a month savings contribution & have my 401 k maxed at $19 k a year, I have over $800 k in savings & retirement while in my 40's, plus a house paid off.

What part of the world are you in?Other than SA in Atlanta, what are the other options? I used to go to Atlanta a lot for work. I mostly used rub maps. Found some great AMPS. But on my most recent trip, I had difficulty finding AMPS that offered FS. And when I did find them, they were asking for ridiculous tip amounts. Or is SA the best option in Atlanta? Man, there are so many hot women in Atlanta.

[Steve 9696]

Other than SA in Atlanta, what are the other options? I used to go to Atlanta a lot for work. I mostly used rub maps. Found some great AMPS. But on my most recent trip, I had difficulty finding AMPS that offered FS. And when I did find them, they were asking for ridiculous tip amounts. Or is SA the best option in Atlanta? Man, there are so many hot women in Atlanta.As discussed SA is the best option by far in the US if:

You have time to search.

You have time for a date.

Are not objectionable in some way.

The only other real alternative I know is P411. Of course you have to be a member. And I think they closed that up with all the sesta / fosta nonsense. I can browse ATL for you if you like. Just send me a PM.

[Artisttyp]

I usually pay 1200/1500 a month per SB, I spend somewhere between 5,000 to 7,000 a month for this hobby, very discipline always on budget.

Everyone is different but I like variety because I always get bored and would want to sample new girl no matter how great she looks. As the saying goes, the only thing better than pussy is new pussy.What is SB?

I usually spend around $1500 a month down in Tijuana. That would be my budget.

I have no problem with lower tier girls if the service is good.

[Elvis 2008]

Let me guess, you are not married.LOL. Good guess. I was married, happily divorced now. I tried to cover my tracks, but the ex hunted everything down.

[SeekingHead]

What is SB?

I usually spend around $1500 a month down in Tijuana. That would be my budget.

I have no problem with lower tier girls if the service is good.SB = sugar baby.

A good SB arrangement is basically a younger girl you are paying to be your part time girlfriend. In all of my successful arrangements there was a connection where I liked the girl & wanted to spend time outside of sex with her. A typical night with my current girl is she comes over for a late dinner around 7:30, we have dinner & wine. After dinner we transition to the jacuzzi for some relaxation, smoke some weed, BBBJ, come back inside, drinks, weed, move to bedroom & uncovered sex for about 2 hours. I kick her out around 1 o'clock.

The advantages of a SB vs. A provider are, most SB's are the girl next door struggling with rent. This means a very low risk for STD's & sex is bareback. Every girl I have been with for more than a couple of times is really into the sex & it's a GFE. The experience is much better than a escort who is looking to turn you over as quick as possible in the US.

[SeekingHead]

Other than SA in Atlanta, what are the other options? I used to go to Atlanta a lot for work. I mostly used rub maps. Found some great AMPS. But on my most recent trip, I had difficulty finding AMPS that offered FS. And when I did find them, they were asking for ridiculous tip amounts. Or is SA the best option in Atlanta? Man, there are so many hot women in Atlanta.As for full service massage options, Atlanta surprisingly is a desert. If you become a regular at a Korean "KAMP" then it's on the menu but it's $250 usually.

I have a girl for $150 I go to for a light massage plus awesome BBBJ, she will swallow if you ask, takes her time for regulars. Most of the BBBJ's I get are around 30 minutes, I'll eat a edible about 90 minutes beforehand so I'm pretty stoned when I see her. Downside is looks & she had a double mastectomy due to breast cancer. So if your looking for a GFE type experience its not there but for the price & exceptional BBBJ I keep going back.

Strip Clubs Tattletales & Follies are usually full service in the club & you can grab numbers for out of club. I've found strippers to be good experiences if your willing to party & spend money on party supplies. I have had a few strippers I met in the club where I have developed friendships with who are down to go out for a night on the town for $$$ & you picking up the bar tab & admission to dance clubs.

Follies is the closet thing to Sodom and Gomorrah in the US right now, weed is smoked openly in the club, couch dances are $10 per song where you go sit in the back area. Jr is encouraged to make an appearance & most girls will give you a handjob to completion. VIP is usually $152 for 15 minutes, BBBJ is a normal event. If I'm in the area around lunch, I'll text a few girls to see if they working, setup a club "date" then eat on buford highway, then run over to Follies after lunch for my date. I'll usually hit follies about every 6 months for a baller night & bring about $600 which is good for a couple of bangs in the club, plus drinks & weed.

Tattletales much more upscale than Follies, Follies is much more hood, Not the decor & overall decor of the club, but the clientele. Tattletales is much more white suburbia where if you smoked weed openly you would be bounced ASAP. Daytime is king for action in the club, only downside are way too many well off geriatric regulars who will drop $300 to 500 a visit. So most good looking girls have regulars and getting their attention & keeping it requires a bit of stripper game & $$s. Once you have taken the same girl a couple of times to VIP & dropped $300 on the girls, get the digits so you can setup dates in the club with them, then you are good. Once you are in with one girl she has a 1/2 dozen friends who need assistance also. I did this quite a bit in Savannah as there was no in the club action, but almost all girls were good outside the club. One of my first Sugar babies was a stripper who I would go see in the club for a couple of drinks & a VIP dance.

SA is by far the best option in Atlanta, for between $200 to $350 ppm you can get a 6 to solid 8 girl next door. When I was traveling to Atlanta I had a solid 8 girl who I would meet when in town for $250, GFE we used condoms the first couple of times, but on the 3rd date I slipped it in without a condom & rawdogged her, never used a condom with her again.

[Big Boss Man]

I am in Los Angeles. I have received quotes from two top tier girls (at least if their photos are accurate but both had a bunch of them). One asked for $500 and the other $700 for a hook up.

I got involved in a text exchange with a thirty year old. She asked me what I like. I told her. She replied, "But missionary would be good for us, right?" I told her I liked oral better. Then she left the text conversation. I getting some amusement out of it. Many college age girls want to do platonic video chats which doesn't excite me.

[Artisttyp]

I am in Los Angeles. One asked for $500 and the other $700 for a hook up.

Those are pretty much standard escort prices in most big American cities.

[Big Boss Man]

Those are pretty much standard escort prices in most big American cities.I just got quoted $400 after I offered $250 to a 23-year old.

[DownUnderMonger]

What is SB?

I usually spend around $1500 a month down in Tijuana. That would be my budget.

I have no problem with lower tier girls if the service is good.Hey Artisttyp.

What would that translate to in Peru? $500 or less?

[SfoCowboy]

Interesting experience bro. I'the never do it bareback first time. May be there is always a first time.


SB = sugar baby.

A good SB arrangement is basically a younger girl you are paying to be your part time girlfriend. In all of my successful arrangements there was a connection where I liked the girl & wanted to spend time outside of sex with her. A typical night with my current girl is she comes over for a late dinner around 7:30, we have dinner & wine. After dinner we transition to the jacuzzi for some relaxation, smoke some weed, BBBJ, come back inside, drinks, weed, move to bedroom & uncovered sex for about 2 hours. I kick her out around 1 o'clock.

The advantages of a SB vs. A provider are, most SB's are the girl next door struggling with rent. This means a very low risk for STD's & sex is bareback. Every girl I have been with for more than a couple of times is really into the sex & it's a GFE. The experience is much better than a escort who is looking to turn you over as quick as possible in the US.

[SfoCowboy]

I found the prices in USA to be on the higher side compared to many other countries.

Europe is good. I tried in Barcelona, Berlin, Prague, Vienna etc. Cheapest in Barcelona in my experience. I'm going to try Belarus and Ukraine next year.


I am in Los Angeles. I have received quotes from two top tier girls (at least if their photos are accurate but both had a bunch of them). One asked for $500 and the other $700 for a hook up.

I got involved in a text exchange with a thirty year old. She asked me what I like. I told her. She replied, "But missionary would be good for us, right?" I told her I liked oral better. Then she left the text conversation. I getting some amusement out of it. Many college age girls want to do platonic video chats which doesn't excite me.

[DownUnderMonger]

I found the prices in USA to be on the higher side compare to many other countries.

Europe is good. I tried in Barcelona, Berlin, Prague, Vienna etc. Cheapest in Barcelona in my experience. I'm going to try Belarus and Ukraine next year.How much is it in Barcelona? How about the rest of Europe?

[AddisDude]

Sounds similar to my situation, I was traveling quite a bit last year for work, this year I'm in Atlanta & there are plenty of clients here so no travel. I only have a $3 k a month budget which is plenty to play on around this area, like you I am very disciplined on my budget. I never touch my savings, always hit my $1500 a month savings contribution & have my 401 k maxed at $19 k a year, I have over $800 k in savings & retirement while in my 40's, plus a house paid off.

What part of the world are you in?I live in Delaware, driving distance from NYC, Philadelphia to DC, I drive up and down and play the entire north east field. I own rental properties all over managed by property management companies and I work for consulting firm which requires me to I travel throughout USA and international.

I am a big saver, I don't have bad habits, not a big spender or have any other issues except for I have diagnosed myself a sex addict but I enjoy it.

[Artisttyp]

Hey Artisttyp.

What would that translate to in Peru? $500 or less?That would depend what my expenses are. Out of the $1500 at least $300 or 400 goes to just getting set up apartment / transport Etc. I guess some months I climb into the 2 k range but I am definitely getting a lot of strange for that money.

[DownUnderMonger]

That would depend what my expenses are. Out of the $1500 at least $300 or 400 goes to just getting set up apartment / transport Etc. I guess some months I climb into the 2 k range but I am definitely getting a lot of strange for that money.LOL just the pussy costs. We'll all have different setting up costs. Where are you staying for $300-$400 a month? I'm budgeting $1000.

[SfoCowboy]

I spent a weekend with a Latina chick. From Friday afternoon till late Sunday. All for 300 euros. 7-8/10; a student from Argentina. 21 years old. Repeated her again. This time bare back. Same cost. Food and drinks for the two days costed extra. I think anywhere between 200-500 euros you'd get a good chic for a weekend. I usually don't negotiate for short term. I met the girl on a Tuesday for drinks. Kissed and touched at no cost. Found chemistry and then did her twice. When I go back to Bcn I'll meet her again.

In Berlin it was 500 for the weekend...Prague was 200 for an evening and night..Vienna was 300..I should have spent more time scouting for a better deal but I didnt have time..

The girls in Ukraine and Belarus will spend a whole week for 5-7 hundred dollars...thats the sense Im getting talking to them...English is an issue..they dont speak it much. But I found 3-4 girls with whom Im talking and I hope to travel sometime to both these countries...


How much is it in Barcelona? How about the rest of Europe?

[SfoCowboy]

This is the best time to find something at a reasonable cost. No travellers or tourists means less demand for these chics. Talk to them smoothly and you'the get them at a good price. Till business and leisure travel picks up, it will be like this. Try picking Latina students. Must be struggling for rents.


I am in Los Angeles. I have received quotes from two top tier girls (at least if their photos are accurate but both had a bunch of them). One asked for $500 and the other $700 for a hook up.

I got involved in a text exchange with a thirty year old. She asked me what I like. I told her. She replied, "But missionary would be good for us, right?" I told her I liked oral better. Then she left the text conversation. I getting some amusement out of it. Many college age girls want to do platonic video chats which doesn't excite me.

[Big Boss Man]

This is the best time to find something at a reasonable cost. No travellers or tourists means less demand for these chics. Talk to them smoothly and you'the get them at a good price. Till business and leisure travel picks up, it will be like this. Try picking Latina students. Must be struggling for rents.I am not smooth at this point. I don't have my patter down. I usually tell the prostitutes exactly what I want up front in Europe and South America. If they don't want to do it, I can move on to the next one. I don't think the more casual SA women think of themselves as prostitutes. I want to move things forward so I don't waste time but I think I am moving too fast and wasting time anyway because I am losing them. I also close to 70 so I am usually out of their profile range. Even the ones that are willing date older usually say 60 in their profile but they will usually respond to me. My pool might be smaller than a guy who is fifty. It might be worth it too spend the $400 and get my rocks off and slow down. I was in Spain when the everything closed so it has been two months of porn.

[Steve 9696]

I am not smooth at this point. I don't have my patter down. I usually tell the prostitutes exactly what I want up front in Europe and South America. If they don't want to do it, I can move on to the next one. I don't think the more casual SA women think of themselves as prostitutes. I want to move things forward so I don't waste time but I think I am moving too fast and wasting time anyway because I am losing them. I also close to 70 so I am usually out of their profile range. Even the ones that are willing date older usually say 60 in their profile but they will usually respond to me. My pool might be smaller than a guy who is fifty. It might be worth it too spend the $400 and get my rocks off and slow down. I was in Spain when the everything closed so it has been two months of porn.There are definitely pros on SA. But the non pros — which I like better — you cannot treat like a pro. Never discuss sex for money. Nor any specific sex act. Establish a rapport and then see if they want to meet up. I usually then say here is how I see our date going. And describe a nice dinner or drinks and say because we like each other we'the want some private time. They generally say that sounds good. I then ask if they had a particular gift in mind. And then you are negotiating the price of the total date having never said the words sex or money. The final $$ should NOT be done on SA In my opinion. Always by text.

The word PPM. Pay per meet. Is commonly used and if you can tell a girl is a pro or semi-pro you can discuss PPM without offending. I again do this offline. SA ostensibly discourages PPM even tho that is mostly what is going on.

And BTW $700 is too high anywhere in the US IMO but $500 is not out of the question in a top tier city with a top tier girl.

[Artisttyp]

LOL just the pussy costs. We'll all have different setting up costs. Where are you staying for $300-$400 a month? I'm budgeting $1000.I keep a little fuck pad down in Mexico for $200 a month. It cuts down a lot on hotel costs.

[SeekingHead]

One of the terms I use for sex is adult time. 99% of all women get what you want but like the fact you don't say sex as it cheapens them.

ASAP move off of SA & to text, I use the line in my opening of why I want to move to text. I tell them Seeking arrangements monitors our messages & for privacy I want ot move to text. This works 95% of the time.

Whatsapp & google voice are the preferred texting methods. Get a burner google voice account, lately I've been thinking about getting a fake business card & fake linked in account.

Outside of NYC, LA, & San Francisco, these are the common rates.

$150 to 200 for a 5/6 MILF to mid 30's women.

$200 to 300 for a college or 20 something 6/7/8.

$300 to $400 for a 8/9.

$400 plus for a model type.

If your in a bigger city add $50 & if in a rural area subtract $25 to 50.

[Pessimist]

There are definitely pros on SA. But the non pros which I like better you cannot treat like a pro. Never discuss sex for money. Nor any specific sex act. Establish a rapport and then see if they want to meet up. I usually then say here is how I see our date going. And describe a nice dinner or drinks and say because we like each other we'the want some private time. They generally say that sounds good. I then ask if they had a particular gift in mind. And then you are negotiating the price of the total date having never said the words sex or money. The final $$ should NOT be done on SA In my opinion. Always by text.

The word PPM. Pay per meet. Is commonly used and if you can tell a girl is a pro or semi-pro you can discuss PPM without offending. I again do this offline. SA ostensibly discourages PPM even tho that is mostly what is going on.

And BTW $700 is too high anywhere in the US IMO but $500 is not out of the question in a top tier city with a top tier girl.Generally, I agree with most of what you said. I most definitely agree with the need to avoiding any mention of sex in messages, even indirectly or tangentially. I ask the girl what her allowance expectation is, and any sensible girl will realize that they don't get paid $200 or more for a meet unless sex is involved. I ask them what are they open to. The girls get the hint and tell me if they are "open to anything" or they want to be strictly platonic. In any case, this will get clarified during the face to face meet, and I never meet the girl for the first time at a hotel room for sex until we have had some in person chat / intro. When I am on the road in a different city, sometimes I have to violate this rule and it does make me somewhat uneasy tbh.

I used to mention ppm in my earlier years, but I have now cut out usage of ppm in my texts or SA messages. For one, it does suggest exchange of sex for money, even if I don't mention the word sex. Instead I say "weekly allowance" and later in clarify that meeting once a week. Of course it can imply we will meet every single week, but I will dispel that notion either during the meet and greet or in some other message.

My concern is not only about SA peering into my messages but also entrapment and if any LE is tracking my messages. I have not heard of any such incidents but pays to appear as harmless as possible.

[SfoCowboy]

This is why I avoid SA in USA. LE can be crazy at times and you never know whom you're meeting.


Generally, I agree with most of what you said. I most definitely agree with the need to avoiding any mention of sex in messages, even indirectly or tangentially. I ask the girl what her allowance expectation is, and any sensible girl will realize that they don't get paid $200 or more for a meet unless sex is involved. I ask them what are they open to. The girls get the hint and tell me if they are "open to anything" or they want to be strictly platonic. In any case, this will get clarified during the face to face meet, and I never meet the girl for the first time at a hotel room for sex until we have had some in person chat / intro. When I am on the road in a different city, sometimes I have to violate this rule and it does make me somewhat uneasy tbh.

I used to mention ppm in my earlier years, but I have now cut out usage of ppm in my texts or SA messages. For one, it does suggest exchange of sex for money, even if I don't mention the word sex. Instead I say "weekly allowance" and later in clarify that meeting once a week. Of course it can imply we will meet every single week, but I will dispel that notion either during the meet and greet or in some other message.

My concern is not only about SA peering into my messages but also entrapment and if any LE is tracking my messages. I have not heard of any such incidents but pays to appear as harmless as possible.

[Pessimist]

This is why I avoid SA in USA. LE can be crazy at times and you never know whom you're meeting.Haha, but you have written up your experiences in US on SA, right?

If you live in US, you don't have many choices. SA is good, because arrangement is a legally gray area. It is a one to one situation, you can gradually build up to sex and not necessarily in the first meet, and in that sense it is OK situation arguably. If you meet a girl a few times, exchange gifts, and have sex, well none of that is illegal. It is more of a problem if you negotiate a transaction of money for sex, and no other relationship. The idea is to include as much of other stuff as possible so that it does not appear to be a transaction only.

[AddisDude]

I am not smooth at this point. I don't have my patter down. I usually tell the prostitutes exactly what I want up front in Europe and South America. If they don't want to do it, I can move on to the next one. I don't think the more casual SA women think of themselves as prostitutes. I want to move things forward so I don't waste time but I think I am moving too fast and wasting time anyway because I am losing them. I also close to 70 so I am usually out of their profile range. Even the ones that are willing date older usually say 60 in their profile but they will usually respond to me. My pool might be smaller than a guy who is fifty. It might be worth it too spend the $400 and get my rocks off and slow down. I was in Spain when the everything closed so it has been two months of porn.Majority of the SA girls are delusional prostitutes who have convinced themselves they are better than prostitutes, they also want validation, for some of them, it is important that they are spending time with someone of the perceived higher status is even more important as the money. Talk to them, make them feel good and tell them about future possibilities you can introduce them to the finer things in life they will fall for it.

The problem with that is it requires more time and that can be exhausting, sometimes it is better to deal with the honest prostitute and get it over with.

[DramaFree11]

Majority of the SA girls are delusional prostitutes who have convinced themselves they are better than prostitutes, they also want validation, for some of them, it is important that they are spending time with someone of the perceived higher status is even more important as the money. Talk to them, make them feel good and tell them about future possibilities you can introduce them to the finer things in life they will fall for it.

The problem with that is it requires more time and that can be exhausting, sometimes it is better to deal with the honest prostitute and get it over with.You are so correct, I had some 6-7's, tell me that they deserved $8000-10 a month, completely delusional. The problem is there is many guys that never meet with the girls, they communicate strictly on-line, and can pretend to be anyone they want to be. The other issues is many guys can hang financially for a couple of weeks or months, they start throwing money around like candy. They worry about the ramifications when the funds run dry.

I am also surprised know one has issues with girls being completely wasted on drugs or alcohol. Most of the girls I dealt with either had a drug problem or issues with alcohol. It was real sad and I just can not stay up all nigh partying I have responsibilities.

[SeekingHead]

This is why I avoid SA in USA. LE can be crazy at times and you never know whom you're meeting.I'm in the Atlanta area, what I do if I have any suspicion of a girl being LE, is to do the meet in greet in one county & then the actual date in another. I highly doubt LE is running a multi county task force targeting SD's. It would take way too many resources, most policing int he US regarding drugs & prostitution is done for news stories so the political masters of LE can show how tough on crime they are. Now there are drug investigations but these are done by task forces who are targeting major drug players. I just don't see task forces focusing on SD's.

[Big Boss Man]

I found one for $250 and but then cancelled because she would not give any secondary verification. She would not even send a current selfie. What is the minimum that guys require to even meet someone?

[Elvis 2008]

Majority of the SA girls are delusional prostitutes who have convinced themselves they are better than prostitutes, they also want validation, for some of them.That is definitely true for the USA and for Mexico but for South America, I have found that is not the case.

[Sebastiane]

I've used SB in San Francisco but never in LA or Hollywood. Was wondering how much the going rate was in those places?

[Pessimist]

I've used SB in San Francisco but never in LA or Hollywood. Was wondering how much the going rate was in those places?I paid $300 on a few occasions when I was in the area for business. Last time was 1.5 years ago.

[Steve 9696]

I've used SB in San Francisco but never in LA or Hollywood. Was wondering how much the going rate was in those places?I only have a couple datapoints. Both were straight to room kind of engagements. With just an hour or two notice. One was a 5-6 I'the say, (my 8 bailed last minute). She was $300 and two spectacular BBBJ with CIM swallow. Second was super cute 7-8. $400 but went CBJ and only allowed one shot. Still a pretty great time. Very cute. Banging body.

[Steve 9696]

You are so correct, I had some 6-7's, tell me that they deserved $8000-10 a month, completely delusional. The problem is there is many guys that never meet with the girls, they communicate strictly on-line, and can pretend to be anyone they want to be. The other issues is many guys can hang financially for a couple of weeks or months, they start throwing money around like candy. They worry about the ramifications when the funds run dry.

I am also surprised know one has issues with girls being completely wasted on drugs or alcohol. Most of the girls I dealt with either had a drug problem or issues with alcohol. It was real sad and I just can not stay up all nigh partying I have responsibilities.Some are delusional but I kick them to the curb. Case in point today. Nice Brazilian in Miami — super quick to "what are you looking for". She wanted $800 and wouldn't budge. Sao she had a lot of rent and bills. I wished her every success with someone else!

Haven't had any problems with drugs or drink. All solid girls who drink and enjoy it but no sloppy drunks or druggies. All good.

[Pessimist]

I think focusing on negative experiences on SA misses the point. It is internet. In particular, it is a free subscription for anyone listed as girl seeking guy. Pretty much anyone can join with a fake email as girl seeking a guy. Swipe a few pics of pretty young blondes from somewhere and you are in business. I would not be shocked if a good percent of girls seeking guys were in fact a bunch of guys trying to fo a couple of easily duped poor slobs and relieve them of a few hundred. It does appear at least a few guys send money to girls they had never seen or met through Venmo. As the saying goes, a fool and his money are easily parted.

I said before but in my estimation only a fraction of girls, perhaps 20%, that are genuine, look their age and like their pics and not looking to cheat, not looking for platonic nor online only and will have sex for a fair price. Perhaps even less than 20%.

Focusing on "girls" quoting excess amounts is a waste of time and emotion. They are dime a dozen per day. Such girls don't even register in my mind. You should forget them immediately and block any negative emotion and move on.

Up to the time you actually meet the girl in person and spent some amount of time getting to know, it is purely a transaction. It is a transaction even after that but at least you can say to yourself "OK I like this girl". Till then, think you are talking to Siri or some artificial bot.

[Mongerer88]

Great posts, guys.

I just want to say thanks.

I have been seeing and repeating with about 9 independent escorts in the USA For the past several years, and I have long been bewildered by the countless comments on ISG over the years about the worthlessness of commercial sex in the USA.

All the providers I see in the USA are as hot and perform the same services as ladies I see outside the USA In fact, I find many of the services I want to actually be more easily available in the USA Than in some foreign locations, particularly some parts of Central and South America.

The only difference is that the USA Sex workers are significantly more expensive than their foreign sisters. That is of course a big deal to a lot of people, but I still like the comparisons to be of looks and services, letting everyone decide on price based on their own budget decisions.

USA Law enforcement has never focused on Sugar Babies or independent escorts that do screening.

[Midwestern]

I am also surprised know one has issues with girls being completely wasted on drugs or alcohol. Most of the girls I dealt with either had a drug problem or issues with alcohol. It was real sad and I just can not stay up all nigh partying I have responsibilities.I totally agree with you. There are many losers on SA. But this is why they are on SA. I had so many dates show up stoned, or didn't show up at all because they passed out from drinking. It was frustrating as hell. Some of the potheads that I met were super hot, and so I tried to make it work, but they always wanted to get high, so I eventually couldn't take it anymore. Same for the alcoholics. Always wanted to day drink, or drink to the point of passing out. Had to quit on them too eventually. I eventually just filtered out anyone that mentioned light smoker or smoker.

[Midwestern]

Majority of the SA girls are delusional prostitutes who have convinced themselves they are better than prostitutes, they also want validation, for some of them, it is important that they are spending time with someone of the perceived higher status is even more important as the money. Talk to them, make them feel good and tell them about future possibilities you can introduce them to the finer things in life they will fall for it.

The problem with that is it requires more time and that can be exhausting, sometimes it is better to deal with the honest prostitute and get it over with.I totally agree with you, but I never viewed SA as another source of pros. I viewed SA as something different. If you find the right SB, then she will be like a genuine GF. Just got to pay them for their time, that's all. For pros that provide GFE, they are faking it. For the right SBs and situation, they will genuinely like you, but they just need you to help them with some cash.

[Midwestern]

I found one for $250 and but then cancelled because she would not give any secondary verification. She would not even send a current selfie. What is the minimum that guys require to even meet someone?With this type of minimum verification, meeting them has many negative possibilities. Maybe her BF and friends will suddenly come out of nowhere and mug you. Maybe it's an LE sting. Maybe she's just a pro. Or maybe she is just ugly. For me, I need to see several pictures of her on her profile, and then I need to text back and forth with her for a bit, to establish a bit of a connection. When we finally do agree to a meeting, I always make sure it's a very public place, like a Starbucks or a bar on a main drag, or any place where there's something else for me to do if the date ends up being a waste of time.

[DramaFree11]

I totally agree with you. There are many losers on SA. But this is why they are on SA. I had so many dates show up stoned, or didn't show up at all because they passed out from drinking. It was frustrating as hell. Some of the potheads that I met were super hot, and so I tried to make it work, but they always wanted to get high, so I eventually couldn't take it anymore. Same for the alcoholics. Always wanted to day drink, or drink to the point of passing out. Had to quit on them too eventually. I eventually just filtered out anyone that mentioned light smoker or smoker.Well said, I have experienced all these and more. I am not sure If I even want to try again, I will wait for the quarantine to end in Mexico. I just do not feel like dealing with the drama again, with American chicks. Mexican and Euro chicks are so much more fun and enjoyable to be around.

[Steve 9696]

With this type of minimum verification, meeting them has many negative possibilities. Maybe her BF and friends will suddenly come out of nowhere and mug you. Maybe it's an LE sting. Maybe she's just a pro. Or maybe she is just ugly. For me, I need to see several pictures of her on her profile, and then I need to text back and forth with her for a bit, to establish a bit of a connection. When we finally do agree to a meeting, I always make sure it's a very public place, like a Starbucks or a bar on a main drag, or any place where there's something else for me to do if the date ends up being a waste of time.Wow. Maybe I am too trusting but so far so good. I just feel like chatting is mostly sufficient to establish intent. I've had two I suppose where they screwed up the meetup. One was so late as to not be worth it. And other "had car troubles" during the trip to meetup. But these were both local and therefore more prone to lameness. Otherwise I feel I have gotten truly real girls at very good prices. No bait and switch. No concerns about mugging or LE. Actually in London I accidentally left $2000 in cash in an envelope on the table by accident while showering. My two Columbian hotties completely ignored it. Unwise that. But yes the glass remains half full.

I am just the opposite of Midwestern. Never a coffee date. Always dinner or drinks and straight to room. Generally 2-4 hours total. Unless she stays the night. Which always warms my heart.

[SfoCowboy]

The SB I had in USA wasn't through SA. I signed up for SA after I moved out of USA and was looking to have a similar experience to that I had with my sb. I visit USA for business and I keep meeting my old sb in SF. I'm not an American and I don't want to be on the other side of LE! Europe is a safe bet.


Haha, but you have written up your experiences in US on SA, right?

If you live in US, you don't have many choices. SA is good, because arrangement is a legally gray area. It is a one to one situation, you can gradually build up to sex and not necessarily in the first meet, and in that sense it is OK situation arguably. If you meet a girl a few times, exchange gifts, and have sex, well none of that is illegal. It is more of a problem if you negotiate a transaction of money for sex, and no other relationship. The idea is to include as much of other stuff as possible so that it does not appear to be a transaction only.

[SavePros321]

I found one for $250 and but then cancelled because she would not give any secondary verification. She would not even send a current selfie. What is the minimum that guys require to even meet someone?Video chats either via FaceTime or Google Meet or Duo. No silly shit like Snapchat or Skype.

Asking them to video chat will weed out lots of scammers (like fake profiles of women who are not actually the women in the photos), but it still doesn't guarantee you aren't dealing with a scammer or someone working with robbing crews (see my long story a few pages back).

My information and advise is USA specific. Seems most guys here are having much better luck with SA in places other than the US where prostitution is legal.

[Big Boss Man]

One woman wrote me this note.

"When can you meet for a dinner intro? And how much will you compensate for a NON-physical meet & greet?

Asian girl.

[The Cane]

One woman wrote me this note.

"When can you meet for a dinner intro? And how much will you compensate for a NON-physical meet & greet?

Asian girl.Man, these chicks are something else! I wouldn't pay their asses a damn thing just for showing up to meet and greet. But, I guess some guys are thirsty enough that they will. Then if a guy like me comes along and I say "no", then these self-absorbed girls want to call me "cheap". No, I'm not desperate for some pussy, and you're full of yourself! The sugar baby thing isn't for me! Reminds me of tutes asking me to tip them just because they spent some of their invaluable time to chatting with me.

[Pessimist]

One woman wrote me this note.

"When can you meet for a dinner intro? And how much will you compensate for a NON-physical meet & greet?

Asian girl.Not my style. I tell them I never give any money for first time meet and greet. If they refuse, they refuse. There are plenty of other girls. Move on.

If you give even 50, and inclusive of dinner and drinks, could become more than $100, probably $125 to $150, depending on where you go. You take off 2 to 3 hours, spend $125 or more, just for a dinner date? What if she simply takes your 50 and never meets you again? I am not desperate for dinner dates.

[Pessimist]

Man, these chicks are something else! I wouldn't pay their asses a damn thing just for showing up to meet and greet. But, I guess some guys are thirsty enough that they will. Then if a guy like me comes along and I say "no", then these self-absorbed girls want to call me "cheap". No, I'm not desperate for some pussy, and you're full of yourself! The sugar baby thing isn't for me! Reminds me of tutes asking me to tip them just because they spent some of their invaluable time to chatting with me.Well, it is perfectly your prerogative to use sugar babe sites or not use them. You can reject them without trying out even once, nothing wrong with that. But see another post from me below. Essentially, it costs nothing for a girl who lists herself as seeking a guy to join these sites. SA says for every guy seeking a girl on the site, there are several girls seeking guys. Why is that? Do you see several girls, good looking girls at that, pursuing and hitting upon men in bars, restaurants, grocery stores, and other such places? No. These girls are on the site for money. That should set one's expectations regarding the behavior, motivation and other such things from girls. It does not mean you should treat them as WG or disrespect them. But always keep that in mind.

If a waitress at a restaurant or a cashier at a store does not provide the best service, or talks to you less than politely, you will never say I will boycott all restaurants or grocery stores. At worst, you might boycott that specific joint. Why form an opinion about all sugar babes based on what we hear about some girls behaving in a certain way with certain guys?

Personally, I think that's an over reaction based on prior naive expectations.

The only way to think about Sugar babe sites is that they are exchanges, matching girls and guys. Some of these girls are total scammers, but some are genuine and will have sex with you in return for money. You can also find girls willing to have sex in the real world, if you have the game, looks and confidence. For the sugar daddies, these sites are an easier place to score, that's all.

[Steve 9696]

Not my style. I tell them I never give any money for first time meet and greet. If they refuse, they refuse. There are plenty of other girls. Move on.

If you give even 50, and inclusive of dinner and drinks, could become more than $100, probably $125 to $150, depending on where you go. You take off 2 to 3 hours, spend $125 or more, just for a dinner date? What if she simply takes your 50 and never meets you again? I am not desperate for dinner dates.If she asks this question she just told you the answer she does not want to have sex with you. She wants you to pay to meet her. Blech! Don't do it.

I have offered to pay a bit but it's an either or proposition. I explain how the date should go and for a complete date I would give $300 or whatever allowance. But if we don't vibe we can part no foul and I will pay your Uber or whatever. Indirectly this has set up in her mind if I bail I get $25 and if I go to the room I get $300. So far always gone with the $300 option.

Even had a Colombian hottie in London I had to go to $100 if she decides to bail. But her friend and me and her had a blast at dinner and had a four hour complete date instead. It was pretty great. Worth every penny. Not saying I’d recommend this practice but it worked out well here. Got the girl, got her friend thrown in and had a great time.

[DramaFree11]

Video chats either via FaceTime or Google Meet or Duo. No silly shit like Snapchat or Skype.

Asking them to video chat will weed out lots of scammers (like fake profiles of women who are not actually the women in the photos), but it still doesn't guarantee you aren't dealing with a scammer or someone working with robbing crews (see my long story a few pages back).

My information and advise is USA specific. Seems most guys here are having much better luck with SA in places other than the US where prostitution is legal.Yep, this was one of my biggest mistakes. Video Chat or FaceTime should me must. I wasted a lot of time and this would eliminate most of the scammers.