General Info

[Eros74]

Besides the weather and the sea... I never seen in Thaj foto gallery so nice women as I see so often in russia gallery, where are these range 9-10 in Thai???

[Doctor_Skank]

Player2:

Be happy you can go to Thailand and enjoy Russian girls there as well!

First of all though, I wonder if your interpretation of 8-10 range matches those of guys who spend a lot of time in Moscow or St.Pete... there are so many incredible girls there that the only thing close to a 10 is a top model.... and believe me, no top models are plying their trade for $50 in Thailand, they are filtering through the dozens of marriage proposals they get every month from rich Russians, Italians, Americans, English...

Beyond that, there is an incredible wealth of beauty in Russia that is hard to fathom, I struggle with it too. Every time I think I've done great, I step outside the door in Moscow and am confronted with incredible beauty. There is plenty to go around. Moscow, London, Dubai, Milan, Istanbul, Frankfurt... you dont have to travel to Moscow to find Russian beauty, that is a fact.

[Player2]

Player2:

Be happy you can go to Thailand and enjoy Russian girls there as well!

First of all though, I wonder if your interpretation of 8-10 range matches those of guys who spend a lot of time in Moscow or St.Pete... there are so many incredible girls there that the only thing close to a 10 is a top model.... and believe me, no top models are plying their trade for $50 in Thailand, they are filtering through the dozens of marriage proposals they get every month from rich Russians, Italians, Americans, English...

Beyond that, there is an incredible wealth of beauty in Russia that is hard to fathom, I struggle with it too. Every time I think I've done great, I step outside the door in Moscow and am confronted with incredible beauty. There is plenty to go around. Moscow, London, Dubai, Milan, Istanbul, Frankfurt... you dont have to travel to Moscow to find Russian beauty, that is a fact.

Well, please keep it just a discussion ,
When I started this game I use to not care much about the beauty of girls.
But now I am seasoned player. I only and only go for very pretty ladies.
And I did some really nice Russians in BKK , paying any where 1500 baht upto 6000 baht.
In my first post in this section, I was questioning that if the girls are making more money in Russia than why they go to BKK ?
I understand about Dubai, that they can earn more in Dubai.

[CA Traveler]

p2... doc's question is a fair one... Have you spent much time in Russia or Ukraine? Like doc, every day when I leave my house, I am constantly amazed at the consistent beauty of the normal girls just walking the street, in the markets and especially in the restaurants.

As far as why the RU girls go to Thailand... (many of these are repeats from other's comments!)

1. Easy visa for 15 or 30 days.
2. Cheap travel and accommodations
3. WEATHER... -20 to -40 compared to 30.
4. Can work to pay expenses along the way.
5. It's not RU or Ukr and they enjoy getting out of their environment, especially in the winter.
6. The average RU or Ukr girl is a superstar in Asia.
7. Very little competition compared to their home country.

I'm sure there are more reasons, but these are pretty significant. Quite frankly, while I was in BKK and Pattaya a couple of weeks ago, I would have loved to find the available hot EE girls. The EE tourists made me long to get back to Odessa!

[Snowy]

P2

I'm not doubting your experience, but I've just returned from my first trip ro Bangkok and had a fairly different perspective.

Not adverse the Slavic form, I liked the idea of finding a nice Russian whilst in BKK (somewhere deep down I thought my average Russian skills would amaze them more in BKK!).

The Russian girls I met in BKK in a couple of clubs (CM2 was one, can't remember the other) were of very poor quality - of around the 40 I saw there were perhaps 2 who would have looked at home in a club in Kiev, Moscow or SPB - and I mean just fit in, not even stand out. The rest were, to be frank, pug ugly. Furthermore they had all the worst traits of EE P4P - incredibly arrogant, rude, full of themselves and utterly convinced of their own beauty, despite being the ugliest girls in the room. I didn't go with any of them, but I'll back my knowledge of the type from enough visits to Russia and Ukraine to guarantee their service would be crap.

In the cause of research I did check up on price and got quoted 6000Baht, dropping to 4,500 baht (I'm sure it would have come down further, but the clubs shut at 2am and every second speaking to them was a waste of time) - their justification for the price was everyone was charging this amount, when infinitely better looking, happier women all round were quoting 3000baht as their opening offer.

Regarding your first question, these girls were not making more money in their home towns and, unless they moved, were not going to. From the ones I met, none were from the bigger tourist cities, they were from places like Samara and Izvehsk - given their looks they were never going to be $200 girls anywhere in Russia.

[Player2]

Thanks guys , very nice input.
I have never been to EE and you guys have made up my mind to go there to see the real beauties.
Since I am coming to Europe for business in May, can you gentlemen suggest where to go in EE .
I want to pay US $ 75-100 , not more than that. Any thing over US $ 100.00 is a no no for me.
Looking forward to hear from you guys.

[Doctor_Skank]

In no particular order...

For really nice budget sex I can recommend the salons in St.Pete, with 2 hours in or outcall girl ranging from 6-9 will run you $100. Lots of salons and girls to choose from. You can find very good girls for $100 all night is well if you are a good and resilient hunter.

Salons in Moscow are more or less the same price, maybe a bit more. Living costs in Moscow are considerably higher though. Take home options in Moscow will shoot holes in your budget, at least $150/2 hours seems to be the way the trend is headed. You can still get take home options for $100, especially if you are a repeat customer, but generally speaking $100 doesn't go far in Moscow.

Ukraine is cheaper than Russia and is less hassle in terms of visas, police etc., so therefore a good option.

I am not sure how developed the salon scene in Kiev is, all most people post about is escort services and overpriced pickup bars. Cheaper options such as internet contacts must exist, but I am not personally experienced with them. Kiev is a lovely city as well and rivals Moscow in terms of beautiful girls.

Odessa looks promising and although expensive for Ukraine, it is still a affordable and fun place, especially in summer. Odessa draws a ridiculous amount of beautiful girls in the summer, I have never been to a place where so many amazing women roamed the streets as in Odessa in the summer. Tourists from all over Ukraine and Russia are there and long tan legs, moody Slavic demeanors and sexy bodies are everywhere... regret to say that most of the model-quality poon is spoken for and out of a mortal person's means, but even the scraps are still 7+... Pro options from $70/hour, although in my experience the cute girls start at $100. Ca_T is posting good stuff about Odessa, but I haven't yet personally been there to check out the new angles he has exposed.

Rural Russia and Ukraine have girls as low as $30/hour, although quality is never above 8, usually in the 5-7 range. Spending more in rural Russia and Ukraine (we are still talking about cities 400,000+ here) can get you anything up to stripper quality. It isnt always easy to access though, and as a non-Russian speaker you may have trouble navigating and negotiating.

I think I'd recommend any of the four main ones mentioned, Moscow, St.Pete. Kiev or Odessa.

Another option for banging super hot chicks from around the world is Germany's FKKs, on a good night they come damn close to being paradise.

[Member #4732]

context, I'm exchanging messages with one of the "initimate services for money" providers who post on the russian dating sites.

Normal stuff. I rely on translation system to chat.
I ask to meet her.
She says depends on my financial situation.
I say if photos are true, not a problem.
Then I mention that photos say "MMM100.com" on them.
Then she turns on me and says that she will complain about ME to operator?
I say "WTF, how have I offended you?"
She replies

"вы думаете что я обманщица"

And the best the on line translator can do is

"You think that I обманщица"

And I didn't need a translator to know hat much. What the hell is "обманщица" though?

[Slavicgourmet]

вы думаете что я обманщица.

Rovnak in russian обман can be translated by deceit.

You can translate may be вы думаете что я обманщица. by " you think i am a (female) deceiver " ( a liar, a scammer, etc) . That is the general idea.

ица is a use to feminize some word like in любовница - (female lover)

[Bez Bezarra]

Rural Russia and Ukraine have girls as low as $30/hour, although quality is never above 8, usually in the 5-7 range. Spending more in rural Russia and Ukraine (we are still talking about cities 400,000+ here) can get you anything up to stripper quality. It isnt always easy to access though, and as a non-Russian speaker you may have trouble navigating and negotiating.



Once again herr Dokteur, you prove why you have the Ph.D in
skankology, dyev-gyno-mongisms, and pussy footing.

As a visitor, access is a real difficult challenge. It can take a week of trying before something above an 8 materializes. Or you might hit a jackpot on the first or second day, and then not find equal quality the rest of the week. With a few weeks under your belt, you've got a decent start with a couple of contacts, your navigating and negotiating is improving, and just then, uh-oh, vacation times up, and back you fucking go to the fucking rat race!

I wish you oligarchs would reveal the real secrets, not how or where to get
dyevs, but how to make so much money over there 11 months of the year and be Mister Richy Rich Cock Slinger Lucky Ass Bastard!

[Certainlee]

обманщик
[N]
deceiver
cheat
fraud
humbug
trickster
charlatan
impostor
mountebank
juggler
twister
twicer
pseudo
fiddler
jockey
counterfeit
counterfeiter
double-dealer
bluffer
bluff
skinner
phoney
phony
faker
four-flusher
heel
crook
double-crosser

[Stravinsky]

Rovnak,

I think there may have been a mis-spelling, which is why the translator didn't pick it up.

Обманывать – to deceive
Обманщик – a man who deceives
Обманщика – a woman who deceives

She probably thought that you were accusing her of posting photos that weren’t her own in an attempt to deceive you. Very defensive this one.

[Aerosol Spray]

Since when should a girl who is in the business of selling "Intimate Services for Money" give a fuck about what her cyber-correspondent looks like? Sounds like this one isn't professional enough, Rovnak.

[Member #4732]

one girl writes:
Когда любят мою попу

literal translation
When love "mine to the priest"

So what is this? doggy style or anal or girl on top? Something back door based from the picture, her squatting, ass out.

Is there a simple list of positional phrases.
I get by just fine with sign language, sometimes I say "69" in Russian. But I might as well learn.

------------
Oh for Aerosol, thread below - that woman wasn't concerned about how I look. I was concerned about how she LOOKED.

[Doctor_Skank]

Когда любят мою попу:
when love my ass

Could mean anal or doggy-style... popa is slang for "ass"

BTW: maybe our resident females Viktoria and Helena could help us out by making a list of positions in Russian?

[Stravinsky]

Rovnak,

I think this is another situation where there has been some sort of mis-understanding.

Когда любят мою попу

Literally, "when they love my ass"

Makes no sense. Can you tell us some more about the context of the conversation?

[Doctor_Skank]

Just a brief check of the last page of ISG yielded the following short list of websites dealing with pro sex which were posted by other members.

I know there are dozens more. Perhaps we can all add lists of websites here and then we can consolidate them later to a comprehensive list?

So many girls... so little time... so much money... :)

Here's a start...

www.call-girls.ru/
www.zna.nu
www.yourfantasy.ru
www.girls-students.ru
www.prostitutki.ru/
www.sweet-dreams.ru

[Big Bro AJ]

www.zna.nu and it's sister site

and

www.intimcity.ru are the most reliable ones; %75 viable....

[Mephil]

i know this is off topic
can some one please help ,can you please Translate this Sentence for me it will be very much Appreciated .

Кстати, я давно хотела поинтересоваться, что означает твой ник на этом сайте? Я вот что-то задумалась, но никакого объяснения не смогла найти...

online translaters dont make any sense


many thanks Mephil

[Lover]

I will translate to you very quicke.

"For a long time I would like to ask you what does your name on this forum means? I am still thinking but could't find answer for this question.

It is close.

Lover

[CA Traveler]

Translation: By the way, I for a long time wished to take an interest, what means yours ник on this site? I here something have reflected, but any explanation could not find...

Paraphrase: It says that the person has wanted to ask for a long time... What does your nickname on this site mean? I have some ideas but your explanation could not be found.

[Mephil]

Thanks you ,CA Traveler for the translation I thought I am have been on a promise ,I could have put my foot in it (so to speak) mephil

Paraphrase: It says that the person has wanted to ask for a long time... What does your nickname on this site mean? I have some ideas but your explanation could not be found.[/QUOTE]

[Member #4732]

So what are the best things to say in bed to Russian girls (in Russian)?

This is the final frontier for me. I love nasty talkers but its been difficult to get the Russian devs to open up verbally. They are good at saying "Da da da da da DAAAAAAA!!!" but I would like to hear them get really nasty, or at least more vocal play. But not knowing slang, the best I can do is say things like

"do you like?" - tibye nraivitse
want more?
you are hot - ti zharka (not even sure this is correct for sex)
etc.
quite limited :(

I had one Czech girl in Prague that just went off in czech one time and it was very cool. I don't know what she said but it was passionate and I have a good idea what she was saying based on context.

I know Brazilian girls love to hear and say "tastey" in Portuguese, and I have had numerous Brasileiras say "fuck me, yes fuck me" in Portuguese.

Usually, in every culture there are some hot button phrases that raise the temperature in bed. What is it in Russian? Or is that not part of their culture?

[Doctor_Skank]

...and I wish they could!

Well I usually speak mostly English to the girls in the sack, even if many don’t understand, they say it turns them on.

I agree with you though, I LOVE vocal girls and unfortunately, I understand only about 20% of what they are saying when they get passionate and start mumbling incoherent things….but what a turn on!

By far the most common thing heard I would say is of course the “da da da”, but also the “ya hachu tebya”… which means “I want you”. This is the green light. If a non-pro says this, fuck her then and there… even if you are on the bus! :)

Here are a few things she might say to you:

I'm coming: кончаю: konchaiu
I'm hot : я такая горячая : ya takaya goryachaya
fuck me : трахни меня : trakhni menya
…harder : сильнее : silnee
…slower : не так быстро: ne tak bistra (not so fast)
…softer : нежнее : nezhnee
…faster: быстрее: bistree
…more: еще: yeshow

I am so wet: она такая влажная : ana takaya vlazhnaya
It makes me so excited: он меня так возбуждаеt: on menya tak vozbuzhdaet
I want you: я хочу тебя: ya hachu tebya
It’s so big!: такой большой : takoi bolshoy!
Do me! : сделай меня: sdelai menya

And here are a few of my favorite basic sentences in Russian:
I want to fuck you :я хочу тебя трахнуть: ya hachu tebya trakhnut
you are so wet: она такая влажная: ana takaya vlazhnaya (refering to pussy)
you are so hot: она такая горячая : ana takaya goryachaya (refering to pussy)

[Excess]

Excellent lesson on essential Russian, Dr. S.

Still, in my opinion, nothing beats that muffled "mwmwmmw" coming from the lady while she seriously works on you with a BBBJ. Works in any language equally well - no translation necessary !!!

[Member #4732]

Good lesson Doc Ska,

I have had a few girls lately that were fantastic at sitting girl on top and then doing the ultra fast grind to get themselves off. I have had two real hip shakers in the last two weeks. They sit up straight, put their hands on my chest and then they move just their hips faster than Shakira. I thought they were going to rub my johnson off at the base. I want to give them some encouragement. So how do you say the equivalent of "yes, ride me baby", "ride my cock" , "go baby go" or something like that?

What would you advise for that scenario?

Don't worry team, I am not sweating this. I just find this subject interesting. In fact I wish I could do a cross-cultural survey of sexual tendencies. Generally, I find the more mature women to be more vocal and more direct in saying what they like.

Funny story. I had one girl who spent much time as mistress to some brit in Marbella spain. Needless to say she was a bit spoiled, but pretty and ok in bed. She knew more English than most, but I had to chuckle the way she would pronounce "penis" . She would say "pay ness". And "deeek".

Come to think of it, this whole thing could backfire on me. I could learn the words but get the pronounciation wrong and the girls will be laughing instead of getting hotter. Maybe I should stick to English. Or my current "Da" duet.

I know one Ukrainien beauty who is quite vocal. Over and over the same phrase but with great passion. I thought she was saying something very exotic. "Hohdah Hohdah Hohdah". I coud not figure it out but I thought it must be special. Then I come to learn its just "Ho Da" i.e "Oh yes". So just a variant on "Da". Still it is her own variant. I haven't heard any others use it.

[One O Nine]

Rovnak,

In my personal experience, what works best is simply narrating the events as they unfold. And if you have more than a slight accent, attempts at talking dirty in a foreign language while fucking are distracting at best, and often unnessecarily hilarious. Speak in your native language. When she's grinding her hips like that, it's not what you say anyway, it's how you say it. An occasional "fuck me, baby" will keep her crystal clear on your intentions.

Oh, and I hate to correct DS, but "sdelai menya" doesn't sound right. "Do me" is no something you can translate word for word. "Do me" would still be "trakhni menya", or "ya tak tebya hochu".

[Member #4732]

1 o 9,

I am sure you are right that speaking with bad accent could be a mistake, as I already indicated before your post. And yes, how you say it is important. But it is my experience with english speaking women that certain profanity is a big turn on for them.

Furthermore, I had noticed that my most vocal partners have been the ones who already know some english. Why is that? Maybe its because they are comfortable vocalizing in english to me. So its somewhat logical that perhaps the non-english speakers would open up a bit more if they were encouraged in their own language. Of course it would have to be done with care. I'm not about to tell them "your pussy is tastey like babushka soup" or "you are hotter than banhya baby". Like I said, I'm not sweating it. At least this helps me understand what they might say even if I am talking english.

[One O Nine]

By the way, my own funny story from about a year ago, I had a pro from NF ask me with a puzzled look whether her previous client really taught her the right thing, or if he was just kidding. She was told that saying "giggty-giggity-giggity" and sliding her head back and forth while fucking was considered by Americans to be the hottest thing ever.

Whoever you are, sir, I salute you.

Anyway,

"yes, ride me baby" "oh da, skachi na mne, krasavitza"
"ride my cock" "sozhmi moi chlen krepche" ("ride" is really another untraslatable euphemism)
"go baby go" "davai (detka) davai"
Also, "ooh, blyad' " is always nice, if the girl can take the swearing.

[Doctor_Skank]

I agree with 109 that speaking your native language with the correct innotation will come off a lot better than speaking clumsy Russian...

...as for the translations, I have most of it from a Russian gf of mine, so I assumed it was accurate, including "do me"/сделай меня, which she translated as "make me"... I can't 100% verify it though...

In any case, I agree that it is a fun subject.

Curiously enough, I find it equally sexy when Russian girls speak English with an accent or at unexpected moments... a lot of them will say for example "fuck me" or "harder" etc.

"blyad" is a word to be careful with. Once I was telling a girl "you are baaaad" and she got this crooked look on her face and was getting pissed off, saying (in Russian) that is a bad word... she thought I was calling her "blyad", which is essentially "b*tch" or "who*e". Almost fucked up the evening. Almost.

As for the hip-grinder, I've had that a few times too... but hate it... also think that she was going to overgyrate my cock off at the base. But this is also a position that many chicks come easily in since they are in control. In that position you really are just the tool. The apparatus.

[Member #4732]

to be devil's advocate for a moment. you state that when the russian woman speaks english, the accent is most often sexy. in conclusion, we have all had experiences where it comes accross as either sexy or funny. its not a given that it will be one or the other. perhaps the same applies to our speech to them. i have had one woman say she liked my american accented russian, though, admittedly that was not in a bedroom. i suppose only the women can answer this question for sure. and i suppose it is may be a phrase by phrase and per case pronounciation situation.

the primary reason the "pay ness" girl was funny was because "penis" is generally not a sexy word in english, its clinical not sexy. and because of the way she was teasingly saying it and playing around with the pronounciation. she was actually trying to get me to laugh. it was not in the course of passion. i know the russian words are harder to pronounce and easier to mess up, but i have had no problem using spanish and portuguese bedroom words. something simple like "davai" may be as effective or better than english "go". i know that when applied properly, еще and "bistri" are more effective than "more" and "faster" with non-english speakers.

and of course there are the words for the positions which are just logistical concerns, like "you on top" or "doggy style". those are useful to know, though definitely not necessary.

[Doctor_Skank]

Rov:

I agree. When I speak Russian to girls, obviously I have an accent and my grammar ranges from right on to incomprehensible, although I generally get my point across. But many girls say they think my Russian is sexy or at least cute. A couple even said I have a Caucasian accent, but I have know idea if that's true or where that comes from... I am about as un-Kavkasky as it comes. In any case, making the effort pays off.

I also think that simple commands, like "davai" or "bistree" are great in bed... but as soon as more than the simplest phrase is involved, I use English, spoken in a passionate sexy way. That definitely serves the purpose far better than a clumsily thrown together Russian phrase. Is there anything less sexy than pumping away feverishly on a chick and her stopping in the middle and asking "what did you just say?".

[Member #4732]

Of course, I agree, I'm not about to attempt some phrase that depends on a complex set of conjugations and case endings.

The thing about words like "davai" is that I am comfortable using that word as I have used it in other situations. I was just sure it was appropriate for the sex context.

Its like in English, you can tell a woman she is "wet" (good) or "lubricated" (bad). Or "hot" (good), or "warm" (bad). "I love your pussy" (good) or "I love your vagina" (bad). Simple words, but there are alternatives that work and don't work.

As for, passion interruptus, the worst was for me last week. I was with a beauty who told me that she "enjoys sex with men but cannot have orgasm with men. Only with other women". "Okaaaaaayyyy".

[Doctor_Skank]

That's the point, as long as you are not really fluent in Russian, you aren't exactly sure in which connotation your statements are being understood.

Obviously "davai" is safe... I use it quite often, especially effective when combined with a slap of the ass.

It works the other way too... I once had a girl, who (bless her heart) knew that I liked to spoken sexily to, would say as much as she could in bed, but sometimes things came out strange. Once she said right in the middle of a passionate pump:

"Fuck me Merry Christmas Santa Claus!"

It was totally out of context and I have know idea what made her think of that... so I just fucked her harder, assuming that's what she meant... :)

But there are the same differences you mentioned as well... for example the Russian word for ****, pizda, is almost always taken negatively. I also find that girls react better to "suka" (b*tch) spoken in a friendly sarcastic way than for example the previously mentioned "blyad". To be safe though, you probably shouldnt use either word... although I am of the opinion that you can get away with much more in the bedroom than one might think.

As for the coitus interruptus, perhaps you should have taken that as the hint to have a threesome? Although then it would be a real bummer if the two girls went at each other and started ignoring you... leaving you to watch Cosmos TV.... :)

[Just Do It]

[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
"Fuck me Merry Christmas Santa Claus!"

Now that is priceless! I really needed to start the morning with a good laugh. Thanks Doc!

[One O Nine]

...as for the translations, I have most of it from a Russian gf of mine, so I assumed it was accurate, including "do me"/сделай меня, which she translated as "make me"... I can't 100% verify it though...

Maybe we should get some native Russians in here, huh? I probably don't know what the hell I'm talking about.

Also, "ooh, blyad' " that I recommended is supposed to be the equivalent of "of, fuck" or "oh, damn" - not "oh, you *****". Blyad' is used as a descriptive noun pretty rarely; mostly it's used as an interjection. I guess to avoid confusion, it's best not to end the sentence there, and do something like "ooh blyad' kak horosho" or "aah blyad' kak klassno", i.e. "oh fuck that feels so good".

In general though, Russian "mat" isn't really acceptable in bed. The words like khui and ebat' are much more of a taboo in Russian than any English equivalent, and most girls aren't into that. Those words go way beyond regular dirty talk, and are basically the difference between calling a girl a "****" and a "shit-eating cum dumpster". They're best avoided, unless you hear the girl using them first.

[Stravinsky]

Doc,

Pizdah has a very rude connotation, more like "****". Not advisable to use it with a girl (at least not one you like!). You might try "KEES-ka", dim. of "Kot" (cat). Very close to our pussy cat, or "pussy". Most Russian girls will understand that. As in "KEES-ka mai-ya".

Another couple of words Russian girls seem to understand for genitalia are "MUISH-ka" (mouse) and "MEESH-ka" (bear). You can probably figure out which one is which. ;)

Once upon a time, I was engaged in a particularly memorable session with a Russki dyev. She ended up on top, riding me cowgirl style, with me underneath, hanging on for dear life. At the end, she collapsed onto my chest, panting for breath, and sighed, "Kak SKACH-ki pah PRAIR-i-ya", literally "like a race across the prairie". This was one woman's interpretation, but I've found since then that, given the proper context of course, most Russian girls will understand this intuitively.

It's always fun to see that twinkle of recognition in their eyes, "Davai skachki pah prairiya".

[Doctor_Skank]

Strav:

I agree, pizda is a word girls don't want to hear, as it does translate as ****. In my post I also said pizda will be taken negatively... The various derivatives, like pizdets or pizdanutsa can be used in the appropriate situation, such as when seeing a traffic accident or a beautiful view. Don't you love Russian? One of the world's most versatile languages.

I agree with 109 though, mat really has no place in the bedroom.. at least not for us amateurs matists. I think a skilled matist could make good use of it, my mat is too clumsy to be considered refined in any way.

Kiska is also a popular nickname, like what you call a girl you like, as in maya kiska... I am saying "my kitten" and not "my twat", right???!!

BTW: like the riding across the prarie bit... :) Will make a note, thanks.

109:
You are right about "blyad"... it can be used to mean "fuck" in a good way or in a bad way... like "blyad, I forgot my keys" or "blyad, that's damn good coffee"... as far as I know however, it can also mean bit*h, like "blyad, suck my dick." But who says stuff like that? :)

"They're best avoided, unless you hear the girl using them first."

That's damn good advice...

BTW: Victoria and Helena, why dont you ladies be darlings and help us out here with our little discussion... I am sure you could correct our mistakes before we commit any bedroom faux pas...

[One O Nine]

In a completely unnesecary bit of trivia, blyad' was a perfectly acceptable word as recently as the 17th century. You can see it used left in right in the famous writings of the Holy Protopop Avvakum. It originates from "blud", i.e. sin, lie. In the 17th century the word was mostly used as a synonym for "sin", and in Avvakum's writings "blyad' " is used to describe what he considered herecy, and what is now the official Russian Orthodox Church. Blyad' was also used to describe a person living the life of blyad', of sin. Back then, "son of a *****" was "blyadin syn". Later on blyad' became to be associated exclusively with loose women, and in the 20th century is mostly used an interjection.

I'm actually pretty good at mat, just not the bedroom variety. I work with some real experts who had spent decades in the Russian army, and that's where the mat thrives.

My favorite non-sequitur interjection which will always amuse any Russian you're with is "yobanyi tarantul", used as a "God damn it".

[Stravinsky]

Kiska is also a popular nickname, like what you call a girl you like, as in maya kiska... I am saying "my kitten" and not "my twat", right???!!

Doc,

Good point. I think it depends on the context. As you said yourself, Russian is a very versatile language. If you are giving your GF a gift and say, "Dlya maiya keeska", I think it will be clear that you are talking to her and that she is your "kitten".

If the two of you are naked in bed and you say "Xochy potsyelovat tvaiya keeskoo", I think it will be clear that you are talking about her "pussy".

I'll leave the context up to you...

1o9,

Maybe you can explain something for me. I've been watching this show on the Russki televisor, it's call Dal'noboishiki. It's a serial about a couple of long distance truck drivers. The older guy, maybe in his 50's, like to use the phrase, "Yapona mat", literally Japanese mother. But it's always used in a very vulgar way. Any clue as to how that saying came about?


JACKSON, WHERE'S OUR RUSSIAN LANGUAGE PHRASES THREAD!!!!!

[One O Nine]

Maybe you can explain something for me. I've been watching this show on the Russki televisor, it's call Dal'noboishiki. It's a serial about a couple of long distance truck drivers. The older guy, maybe in his 50's, like to use the phrase, "Yapona mat", literally Japanese mother. But it's always used in a very vulgar way. Any clue as to how that saying came about?

"Yob tvoyu mat' " is the most common Russian swear word, which is obviously unsuitable for television. "Yapona mat'" is simply a variation on it that they can say without being bleeped.

That kind of thing is actually very common in Russia, with people policing themselves in their language and using similar-sounding phrases in place of mat, such as "blyaha-muha" (belt buckle - fly) instead of "blyad' ", "yozh tvoi med'" (porcupine your copper) or "yaponskii gorodovoi" (japanese patrolman)instead of "yob tvoyu mat' ", and so on.

[Edit] Additional euphemisms for "yob tboyu mat' ": "yo-moyo", "yolki-palki", "yo-ke-le-me-neh", "yedryon baton", "yokarnyi babai", "yoshkin kot". There's literally a million of them.

[Edit 2] More: "yadrenyi koren' ", "edri tboyu mat' ", "mat' tvoyu nalevo", "mat' tvoyu za nogu".
My favorite is "yoptit' ", which is usable as a noun, a verb, and an interjection. But that's not a true euphemism, most Russians will consider it mat as well.
A guy at work, a weird little fellow, never swears, and uses "Yogurt Parmalat" as his euphemism.
The word "mat" itself is derived from "yob tvoyu mat' ".

[Yet another edit] My favorite derivative is "blyadofon", i.e. the cell phone one uses to talk to women he sleeps with on the side. When getting a pro's phone number, refer to your cellphone as such for a laugh.
Here's a nice resource on the subject:
http://mat.al.ru/

[Big Bro AJ]

On daily basis I read this forum.

I admit what I am. A “Sex addict”…And I believe this is part of the mongering. Maybe some of you disagree with me but take a minute and please read these two posts.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=401962&postcount=180

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=398427&postcount=179

Luckily I don’t have all the symptoms.

Spending countless amounts of money to girls.
Preferring travel destinations where to find attractive girls easily.
Advancing from single relations to threesome and than kinky and domination relations. Always looking more. Took TVs and TSs as sex partners, more sex toys, watching lesbishow become more satisfactory than the normal relation or threesome. Become close friends with mamushka(even date with her), and pros. Help them to divorce from their fake marraiges to get ID and recommend them to other mongers. Sometimes I feel like a pimp(but nobody pay me anything)

As a part of this problem, I learned tantric massage (Yoni worship), read articles and networked for tantric techniques, learn how to breath to reach chakra for ejaculation control, energy orgasms and long time erection.

No way out…just learn to control

[Doctor_Skank]

Big Bro:

Interesting subject, glad to see that I am not the only one dealing with such issues.

One man's sexual addict is another man's sexual predator is another man's sexual hunter... I think it is all a matter of definition.

I think most of us are sexual addicts, I have no problem with that definition.

I think the important things to watch out for in our hobby are:

* physical safety/health (don't get HIV/AIDS and don't give it to someone else!)
* financial security (don't spend more money on the hobby than you can reasonably afford)
* emotional stability (don't get lost in the world of cheap and fast women)
* capacity to love (don't lose the ability to show real honest affection to "real" girls)
* moral code (don't cross the line in pursuit of sexual adventure, i.e. very young girls etc.)

Most of the above are issues related to oneself. It is also important that we try to behave as true men. Obviously this is not always easy in a world where women are sometimes used and even abused. It's a gray area.

I often thought about writing a "monger's code of conduct" based on what I feel is the correct form of behavior. Soon after I started the project, I abandoned it. There are too many variables. But it is important that you can look at yourself in the mirror at the end of the day... or more often, in the morning... :)

In any case, I also have thought about this subject often. In the end however, I admit to myself that I enjoy the hobby too much to quit. So if I am going to play the game, then I will do so by rules that I can live with.

[Big Bro AJ]

doc,

thanks for the advice.

above all i have strict rules.

never ever abuse girls and let them abuse me. (sometimes there might be some exceptions in limited amounts)
never ever have sex with girls under 20. but enjoy sex with women in late 30s and early 40s.(enjoy to become their toy boys)
never ever have sex without condom and if i feel insecure, i have never had sex with her even with condom. (not even with my real dates; i am too active, i don’t want any troubles)
always have standards, not every girl who opens her legs.

when i explored my wilder side (sex addiction and noticed that i am good at it) i expressed with my tattoos.

there is a hairline between [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) and sexual fantasy (role playing); sometimes i forced that line too much with the girls (very very close pros).

tantric principles did not truly help me, only power up my sexual desires and ability to control over girls.

i took notes about each and every single girl. age, nationality, likes and dislikes, favorite sexual positions, to dos and not to dos and at the end personal note to myself whether i enjoy sex or not.

honestly, i don’t regret what i spent for these girls; maybe i should. i could buy a fancy jeep but i did not; besides i don’t like driving.

i am keep walking on gray zones.

[Muratlale4]

Big Bro:
I often thought about writing a "monger's code of conduct" based on what I feel is the correct form of behavior. Soon after I started the project, I abandoned it. There are too many variables. But it is important that you can look at yourself in the mirror at the end of the day... or more often, in the morning... :)

In any case, I also have thought about this subject often. In the end however, I admit to myself that I enjoy the hobby too much to quit. So if I am going to play the game, then I will do so by rules that I can live with.
Why not write a code of conduct?
The variables can be worked out in time. I think it is a very good Idea. The Forum could become a helpfull tool to bridge these dreaded variables.

Doctor and AJ, thanks for the insightful and frank talk

regards

[Doctor_Skank]

Mur:

I think the code of conduct is a personal issue, one in which I am not in a position to judge over other people's conduct or action. As I said, there are many variables and everyone must deal with these variables and issues themselves. The important thing is to be at peace with yourself and your conduct.

I am certainly no saint and bend rules as often as I can... but I sleep well at night. Unless of course Masha nudges me and wants another round. :)

[Bez Bezarra]

I am a Sex addict…And a pimp,

I learned Yoni worship .

No way out


Well, forget Yanni, and leave him out of the monger code.
He just got busted for beating up his girlfriend,
or supposedly for throwing her on the bed and forcing her to
listen to one of his faggy CD's.

Actually, he claims she kicked him in the nads, if he has them?

[Big Bro AJ]

Bez,

That was great…..LOL…..

I was trying to decline it but I have to accept that I become pimp. I better start wearing pink velvet hat and carrrying pimp stick. That will fit with my $1000 suit.

Yes, I am Big Bro (1.84 height, 120 weight) I am scorpio; calm and quite most of the time, unless somebody push it too much. But, I have never BEAT girls, but time to time played hard. (sex on the kitchen stool or counter or bust her while she was taking shower or at most politely force her for Greek-but if she doesn't really want it or ready for it than I'll wait till she accepts it with her freewill)

Once a guy beat one of the girls I know closely, and unfortunately I gave her number to him. I didn’t care whether we were working together; I went to his apartment and made him sorry for that and broke his left arm. I never ever tolerate beating girls.

I also admit that I force them to dance with NELLY and L’L KIM songs. Actually one of them started to learn belly dancing. lol

[Muratlale4]

Doctor you are, as always, right.
I actually have problems looking at the mirror, but thats because of my face and not the guilt one might feel.
There is just too much girl out there and too little time to worry about the best thing on earth and in life.

regards

[Muratlale4]

AJ, next time something like that happens please do both arms. I am against violence but if it has to be done, lets do it properly.
Cant have other people damaging the merchandise ;) lol

Cudos

PS: The statement above was ment to be a pun on Bıg Bro statement that he himself is a Pimp, that is the only reason I refered to the girl in the way I did. For the record. I dont think that anyone can become merchandise.
And I also would like to add that I met the most wonderful people while mongering (mamas and girls), and I have a deep respect for them.

[Doctor_Skank]

If I was going to write a code of conduct, I think the first chapter would include:

"women are not merchandise"

You can buy her time and her services, but you dont buy her.

[Big Bro AJ]

Muratlale,

Women are not goods.

We humble share the opportunity to spend time with them. We only borrow her time and mostly her warm friendship for a while.

Sometimes her time and friendship is costly sometimes not.

[Muratlale4]

If I was going to write a code of conduct, I think the first chapter would include:

"women are not merchandise"

You can buy her time and her services, but you dont buy her.

Just kidding Doctor. I know that they are not merchandise and that Big Bro is not a pimp. The girls are pros, they do not deserve to be treated badly.They chose to make a living in a way that is generally not accepted by mainstream society.
The operative word is chose, as long as she choses it is fine by me.

Please dont misunderstand a little fun talk on the side as general and real disrespect for pro girls

regards

[Doctor_Skank]

Murat:

It's ok, I understand that you meant it as a joke, but its important that we remember that even pros are still women.

I am not immune to making mistakes and sometimes try to be tougher with the girls than I actually am, especially when they aren't doing what I want. It doesnt work though, since I dont have the heart to be mean. In the end I prefer other methods to make them do what I want them to. These other methods usually work.

Certainly being strong is important, but being too rough is just ape-like.

Of course when the girl likes a bit of rough play it is OK. Many girls do like it, especially non-pros(freebies). They dont want to be hurt of course, but rough play is a common fantasy among girls. I also like to be rough and brutish, when I detect that the girl likes it. A little spanking, some choking, some harsh words said in a teasing way, pinning them down, wrestling with them. It sounds like Big Bro AJ likes the same kind of games with his girls sometimes.

In my experience, pros dont like it rough... probably because they have had too many customers who took "being rough" too far and actually hurt them, or were mean to the girls for sick reasons. Or maybe they are afraid of being "damaged" and losing work.

Now we are delving into psychological areas... maybe we dont want to know certain things about a pro's life.

[Buzz00]

Bez, Dr.Skank,

I think for people like us it goes without saying that we should treat the girls
decently. They are people like anyone else.

I tend to treat them as I would my girlfriend within reason - just as you find bad girl friends you find P4P girls that are bad. Its a matter of individual personalities. I have never come to the conclusion that because a girl takes money for services rendered that she is bad. Real GF's are sometimes worse rip off artists.

If I get bad vibes from any woman be it a pro or a freebie then I am going to cut my losses and of late I have met some lovely P4P women that I would not hesitate to have as a girl friend.

I did have a GF who liked dressing as a school girl, being tied up with telephone cords other restraints and having her ass beaten to a deep red, which was sometimes too much for me but this is how she got her kicks. I could never quite get into being totally rough with her.I have never been with a P4P lady that like anything remotely close to being restrained or having her ass beaten.

But just as we like to be treated in a decent manner we should behave in kind.

Dr. Skank you still blow my mind away with all those gorgeous EE chics that you have bedded.

Cheers.

[Bez Bezarra]

you can say whatever you want, it doesn't change anything.

the problem, the real problem we all should have, is with
the phony morality hypocrites, regardless whether they be men,
women, governments, law enforcement, and their financial
connections to criminals who take advantage of private
individuals' personal affairs that happen to be associated
with the world's oldest business arrangement.

like i've said before, its the most basic make up of our dna,
just look at the discovery channel and it only gets clearer,
when you see the myraid of differences and similarities
of species male/female interdepence for survival and procreation.

you think its possible to merely undo millions of years of
instinct we're programmed with?

please! and just get the fuck out of here while you're at it.

in today's relevance, just translate all the philosophical crap into
one simple rule of thumb to peel back all the layers of bullshit,
and that is, follow the fucking money!

if prostitution is so fucking terrible we must use taxes, (that we have
to fucking go work every fucking day to earn by the way), to pay
le secretaries to lie and pretend to be hookers to arrest horny
idiots trying to get laid,
then why does nevada sell occupational licenses to
the fucking bunny ranch?

uh,.......duh,.........money?????

gee, i guess that just comes from one more fucked up part of
human dna we should be so proud of, being fucking greedy!

which tends to be infinite when you see the prices the bunny
ranch *****s expect to be paid for access to their cunts, which
only reveals another sorry-ass limitless male human trait,
stupidity, for actually paying what they ask!

no my fellow mong-world, so long as the planet spins,
mongering will spurt on in all its glory, ugliness and
sticky come stains.

when sex traffickers and brutal pimps take advantage
and inflict sadism upon unwilling participants, you can be
absolutely certain that the authorities get paid to look the
other way.

and so until greed no longer exists, this story will not change.

[Big Bro AJ]

I have a stupid friend. I told him a lot about mongering and things to do but still he asked me a too many stupid questions. Lately, I was networking for him and found this. Maybe it will be helpful for others also.

http://www.ilovemoscow.ikea.ru/

[GandJim]

Vince,

These sites have been discussed times and times and times again and again...by numerous members in the Moscow forum already . Just read there. To make a long story short, these are just bulletin boards where everybody can put an advert. You can have real photos as well as fake ones.

There are also many reviews of these girls on sextalk forum, and they tell you if the girl is real or not. For example here (http://sextalk.ru/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=388788&an=0&page=0#388788) for Cristina advertising on Dosug.nu. She's real. Photos accurate and, in fact, is younger than in photos. As you can see, there are tons of reviews and many drop-dead gorgeous girls are real, it's up to you to trust the reviewer or not.

[Riddle Methis]

peeps, i feel i shouldn't give away this great secret of mine, well not that secret i'm sure, but there are thousands of russian girls all over the world and if you are lucky (and can work out a little russian translation) then you might try getting yourself a profile on www.girlfriend.ru and searching your area to see what you can find, there are hundreds of girls here in london on there, and hopefully with some more chatting up i might even get a date out of it.

see if you can get lucky with a hottie!! if you do tell me so i can keep hoping!

[Doctor_Skank]

Riddle Methis,

Appreciate you letting us in on your secret, but this is the exact same database we've been talking about for a few years now. :) There are several "dating" or "znakomstva" online services using different names but are in fact exactly the same.

Two examples are www.love.mail.ru (as far as I know the original one) or www.destiny.com.ua

There are regular girls and pros, as detailed in my report and a report from Alex Koen:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=446779&postcount=572

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=446966&postcount=573

[Big Bro AJ]

Once, I asked whether monger friends knew sex shops in Moscow...

Well, similar discussion was made in another forum and a dear expat friend was very helpful to share his knowledge.

Maybe one day, you need to buy a gizmo to your devushka….:)

“1) metro Park Kultury: right on the embankment, almost next door to the Aeroflot ticket office. (next to the Krimski bridge).
2) metro belorusskaya (ring one), thru archway, next door to Yakitoria. That must have been one of the first sex shops in Moscow.
3) Ring road, past smolensky metro (MID), past the US Embassy onwards to Mayakovskaya. Theres a huge sign, next door to a shoe store called Ooo La la. (inside the ring)
4) metro Kurskaya area, on the ring road, (inside the ring), next door to the Bunker restaurant (Ethiopian),

They dont have quacks working at these places, most of the sales crew are females, who are psychologists and teachers. Most of them are cute as well.

The majority of the company owners are Africans (BeLiEvE iT Or NoT!!!) they cornered the business a few years back.”

http://www.sexshop-online.ru/
http://www.sexplus.ru/
http://www.mysexshop.ru/
http://www.rosintim.ru/
http://orgasmshop.com.ru/
http://shop.intimline.ru/
http://www.all4sex.ru/

[Riddle Methis]

Thanks Dr Skank for reminding me to be less lazy and read back reports, I feel stupid now. I think (according to the search anyway, again too lazy to check all back posts) I've put up one of the few if not only report on Chelyabinsk for anyone interested, check "Other areas", hope this makes me even!

[Doctor_Skank]

RMT:

Actually it puts you one up, because your report was really cool... already read it...

Big Bro:

Which sex toys do the girls respond best to? I like tie up and other games sometimes, but never really got into dildos, plugs or anything like that... anything the dyevs especially go for? Enquiring minds want to know...

[Big Bro AJ]

Doc,

Most of the girls, I know, love “Buzzers”. Very affective, you may use it during the intercourse or DATY…:)

As long as girls use dildos for lesbi shows, I have no problems. Nevertheless, I don’t like it.

Most of them hate ass beats or plugs. Unfortunately, I haven’t met a dominant EE girl yet.

I don’t like the condoms at magazines. I hope sex shops have more options….

You know a lot of freebies, what about them. Most of the girls I know are semi-pros or pros.





Big Bro:

Which sex toys do the girls respond best to? I like tie up and other games sometimes, but never really got into dildos, plugs or anything like that... anything the dyevs especially go for? Enquiring minds want to know...

[Doctor_Skank]

bigbro:

thanks for the info and inspiration!

actually i am not too experimental with toys in general, i guess just hoping my "equipment" is enough to give her all the pleasure she desires. :)

most of my kinky stuff with the freebies involves games like tie-up, some spanking, [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) fantasies (nothing too rough) and things like that. i found a really kinky super rich 19-year old blonde freebie that likes to wear a schoolgirl's uniform and wear her hair in pigtails.... just thinking about it makes my heart skip a beat... :)

i think i'll pick up a buzzer just to add something to the mix. i need something to shake up my routine a bit... my standard program is polished and professional, but i need a new kick.

[Big Bro AJ]

Doc,

The same reasons I don’t like dildos. I am enough for her…:)

I love fishnet bodies and stockings. Handcuffs are too risky for my taste. But tied up with stockings on bed head is an exceptional feeling. She does anything she wants….oups too many secrets…:)

All these toys and gadgets add flavors to our addictions. Russian women LOVE sex and they always rewarded guys who know how and what to do.

I am always in a search to develop my talents and myself. Tantric belief helped me a lot to access and achieve my objectives.

[Big Bro AJ]

a well-known tantric provider from dallas wrote this article. i always keep in mind her guidance. i was honored to meet her in her tour in houston.

i wish russian girls would open their hearts and minds for role-play, domination and tatric philosophy.

i would like to share her article with you…i know it's too long but be patience and read it. you will get your reward...



"i love to share so i'm going to let you in on a secret..."

there is nothing that makes a woman more unique than her pussy. pussies come in all different sizes, colors and shapes. some are tucked inside and some have thick luscious lips that come out to greet you. some are nestled in brushes of fur and others are covered with transparent fuzz. others are shaved clean for that deliciously soft and sensual look.

appreciate your woman's unique qualities and tell her what makes her special.

women are a good deal more verbal than men, especially during lovemaking. they also respond more to verbal love, which means, the more you talk to her, the easier it will be to give her a lasting impression and get her to beg you for more. hearing that you find her hot and sexy and that she smells good and tastes good while you are petting and stroking her beautiful pussy, makes her feel incredibly vulnerable to you, and can make a huge difference to her entire dynamic with you.

a smart man knows how to be sincere and to a woman, this is the difference between being fucked, and being made love to. an intimate man is much more arousing than one who doesn't know the art of being nurturing.

most women are shy and insecure about their bodies. even if you've got the world's most gorgeous woman in bed with you, she's going to worry about how you like her body. tell her it's beautiful, tell her which parts you like best, tell her how soft she is, but get her to trust you enough to let you down between her legs.

now stop and look at what you see. beautiful, isn't it?

gently pull the lips apart and look at her inner lips, even lick them if you want to. women have clits in all different sizes, just like you guys have different sized cocks. it doesn't mean a thing as far as her capacity for orgasm. all it means is more of her is hidden underneath her foreskin.

spreading a woman's pussy apart is incredibly intimate. she knows you are seeing her most private parts and this turns her on. being totally exposed, helps her to show you how much she trusts you.

whenever you touch a woman's pussy, make sure your finger is wet. you can lick it or moisten it with juices from inside her. be sure, by all means, to wet it before you touch her clit because it doesn't have any juices of its own and is extremely sensitive. your finger will stick to it if it's dry and that hurts. but you don't want to touch her clit right away anyway. you have to work up to that.

her anticipation of you licking it can be a great way to build her up to arousal. before she becomes aroused, her clit is too delicate to be handled. approach her pussy slowly. now spread the tops of her pussy up until you can find her clit.

when you gently pull the hood down to expose her budding clitoris, it's like a little baby penis, red and wanton. it is very sensitive to touch, sucking, and blowing on.

experiment with what makes her moan. she will let you know when you are hurting her. she would rather you explored her sensitivities by going too far, rather than being too gentle and ineffective.

many women use vibrators or masturbate a lot with their finger, so their clits might be insensitive. where you will find some women are very sensitive to a gentle touch, others might need a more wild, animalistic approach.

you can ask your woman which she prefers and proceed accordingly. women, even
more so than men, love to be teased. teasing, by avoiding the contact with the clit for a long time, can send a woman into a frenzy once you finally do make that magic contact.

the inner part of her thigh is her most tender spot. lick it, kiss it, and make designs on it with the tip of your tongue. come dangerously close to her pussy, and then float away. make her anticipate it.

now lick the crease where her leg joins her pussy. nuzzle your face into her bush. brush your lips over her slit without pressing down on it to further excite her.

after you've done this to the point where your lady is bucking up from her seat and she's straining to get more of you closer to her, then put your lips right on top of her slit. kiss her, gently, then harder.

now use your fingers to gently separate her pussy lips and when she opens up, run your tongue up and down between the layers of folds. gently spread her legs more with your hands.

everything you do with a woman you're about to eat must be done tenderly. tongue-fuck her. this feels divine. it also teases the hell out of her because by now she wants some attention given to her clit. use your chin as well. tongue her from the bottom of the slit, deeply into her pussy, and bring the chin through the path as well

if you have a day's worth of growth on your chin, this sandpaper effect feels wonderful on an aroused clitoris. you will notice her screams and moans when you complete the path by rubbing your chin firmly over the clit (rather like licking an ice cream cone).

bald men can even rub their heads firmly up and down the area to further excite her and give a unique and rewarding experience.

check it out. see if her clit has gotten hard enough to peek out of it's covering. if so, lick it. if you can't see it, it might still be waiting for you underneath. so bring your tongue up to the top of her slit and feel for her clit. you may barely experience its presence. but even if you can't feel the tiny pearl, you can make it swell by licking the skin that covers it.

lick hard now and press into her skin. gently pull the pussy lips away and flick your tongue against the clit, hood covered or not. do this quickly. this should cause her legs to shudder or her back to arch.

once this happens, you had better be willing to go the distance.

when you sense she's getting up there toward orgasm, make your lips into an o and take the clit into your mouth. start to suck gently and watch your lady's face for her reaction. if she can handle it, begin to suck harder. suck the whole labia (inner lips, sometimes a big flap) into your mouth while tonguing it.

if she likes it, suck even harder. you can even bite down on the lips and clit a bit to heighten her sensations. go with her. if she lifts her pelvis into the air with the tension of her rising orgasm, move with her, don't fight her. hang on, and keep your hot mouth on her clit. don't let go. that's what she'll be saying too: 'don't stop. don't ever stop!'

there's a reason for that; most men stop too soon. she is letting you know that this action is what it is going to take to get her over the edge. it takes the same motion over and over again to get her to the crescendo that you are trying to achieve. more
experienced gobblers know to continue doing the same motion until she cums.

there's another thing you can do to intensify your woman's pleasure. you can finger-fuck her or use a dildo while she's enjoying your clit-licking talents, before, during or after. she'll really like it.

in addition to the erogenous zones surrounding her clit, a woman has another extremely sensitive area at the roof of her vagina. this is what you rub up against during penetration.

take two fingers. one is too skinny and three are too wide to get deep enough. make sure they're wet so you don't irritate her skin. slide them inside, slowly at first, then a little faster. fuck her with them rhythmically. speed up only when she does. listen to her breathing. she'll let you know what to do.

if you're sucking her clit and finger-fucking her at the same time, you're giving her far more stimulation than you would be giving her with your cock alone. so you can count on it that she's getting high on this. if there's any doubt, check her out for symptoms.

each woman is unique. you may have one whose nipples get hard when she's excited or only when she's having an orgasm. your girl might flush red or begin to tremble. get to know her symptoms and you'll be a more sensitive lover.

when she starts to have an orgasm, for heaven's sakes, don't let go of that clit. hang in there for the duration. when she starts to come down from the first orgasm, press your tongue along the underside of the clit, leaving your lips covering the top. move your tongue in and out of her pussy.

if your fingers are inside, move them a little too, gently though, things are extremely sensitive just now. if you play your cards right, you'll get some multiple orgasms this way.

a woman stays excited for a full hour after she's had an orgasm.

a more advanced technique that comes with experience, is when you are fucking
her doggie style and you pull out, and get down and devour her pussy from that angle. the sensations she feels with this technique make the difference between a good lover and a sensational lover.

a man who is about to cum while fucking doggie style, but who pulls out because he knows his partner is not yet ready to join him in cumming together, can make a wonderful offering by using this trick to get her more aroused. some women can't cum in this position because they don't have the clitoral stimulation that they need.
especially if the man has a smaller penis, and does not quite rub her g-spot enough to make her cum.

of the women i have asked if a man has ever done this, the one's who have were totally delighted, and said it was rare but that they wished all men would do it.

the last advice i have for you is this: after you've made her come, made her your slave by giving her the best head she's ever had, don't leave her alone just yet. talk to her, stroke her body, caress her breasts. keep making love to her quietly until she has come all the way down.

a man can get off and go to sleep in the same breath and feel no remorse, no sense of loss. but a woman by nature requires some sensitivity from her lover in those first few moments after sex. oral sex can be the most exciting sexual experiences you can have. but it's what you make it.

take your time, practice often, and pay attention to your lover's signals, and most of
all, enjoy yourself and your woman.

[Doctor_Skank]

Thanks for the article Big Bro! Actually I've read several articles on cunnilingus and even on the G-spot, and am really very good at eating pussy. It really does make a girl addicted to you and I love to do it. Was a great read too. I have such articles on my computer and before I meet a girl I will sometimes reread the article, just to make sure I am in the right frame of mind. For me the sex act is 90% about her pleasure, there is no feeling in the world as divine as making a girl come.

Toys:

The only thing I could imagine a dildo for as when you are ass fucking her that she sticks it in her pussy, but I imagine a buzzer or vibrator would be better for that. Or vice-versa that she sticks the vibrator in her ass while you work the pussy.

I've never gotten into tantric sex, although I have read some about it. What is the advantage? Your relaxed mental state?

I like handcuffs too... but never like to be handcuffed myself.

I know a lot of girl like to tie up the man and have their way with him, but generally I am a bit of a control freak in bed... I like to run the show. I probably do need to try to let go a bit more in that respect.

You are certainly right about Russian girls loving sex and having a natural relationship to it, or when was the last time a Russian gf said "not now honey, I don't feel like it"?

Once they are addicted to your sex, they cant get enough... sometimes the relations can last for years.

[Big Bro AJ]

There are thousands of articles and hundreds of books about Tantric sex and philosophy. But mainly everything is based on skin and mind harmony.

From what I know, first step is to learn the right way to breath and concentrate. There are some exercises to repeat them on daily basis.

After that you may work on different techniques; such as ejaculation control, multi orgasm, controlled orgasm, energy orgasm, Yoni worship (DATY plus massage), Tantric massage, Tantric positions and the list goes on. It is a never-ending list.

Some Tantric providers make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year. It’s a huge market. Books, workshops, instruments and else…

A clever pro can easily make thousands with Tantric sex and domination.

[Doctor_Skank]

Sounds a little about learning to shoot in the army...

relax-breathe-aim-squeeze...

I'll read up on it, although I am pretty happy with the way things are working for me now, not sure I want to mess up the works with a self-imposed psychological mind melt...

...it is by the way the same reason I don't go to a shrink to cure my sexual addiction. I LIKE being sexually addicted... :)

Do you think tantric technicques improved your sex life and performance, or just your awareness?

[Big Bro AJ]

Tantric sex tripled my sexual desires and addiction. Tantra is not a cure for sexual addiction. Tantric discipline advances your performance and doubles the pleasure.

If you have two characterless sex in two hours, I have one powerful, joyful, multi orgasmic sex. Girls’ pleasure and multi orgasms trigger my desires and performance. It’s really difficult to explain, you need to live it.

As I said, it’s a huge market and every body wants a piece from it. Therefore you have searched a lot to find what really works for you or what you really need.

http://www.tantra.com/ is a good example.

Sometimes small details make your night unforgettable. Serrated condoms, buzzer, couple of brand new stockings, Baileys, flavored candles, massage oil, bath salt and couple of more items turn regular sex into pleasurable moments.

That’s why I don’t like 2-3 hours long programs. Sex is a cult and women’s body is my temple.

[Doctor_Skank]

Actually it sounds like I have been practicing tantric sex in some ways without even knowing it... :) I really try to make each sex act a memorable event.

I hear you, definitely there is much joy in bringing girls to the next level.

In any case, I'll be reading up on it this weekend. I'll probably be reading it in the plane. I am usually reading some sex book in the plane... :)

Thanks for the tip...

[Big Bro AJ]

Flight takes 3 hours; I don’t wanna waste my time so I rather sleep on plane. But reading sex books in plane is an interesting way to find girls...:) :)

But beware, if you involved too much on tantra, you may find yourself in a tattoo shop having tribal flames tattoos to express your desires and else…it happened to me. I don’t regret it, and am looking for new ones. :)

[Member #4732]

Anybody ever go to a salon and not like any of the girls but really like the adminsitrator? Happened to me today.

Went to check out a different salon in SPB. Was greeted by a beautiful classy administrator. I got to check out her round tush as I followed her up the stairs. She so outclassed the girls, they looked like bumpkins compared to her. I think I made her day telling her "I don't like any of the girls, but I love you". I was making her blush. She is married but really liked the flirtation. Oh well.

[Starchild2012]

Guys..My TCW info on tantra...

I'm from India, the birth place of tantra and now a days the west has taken tantra to a new level which is unknown to its real truth.

First things first....Tantra meaning in english " various steps to attain" or a "ritual to reach god".

Tantra is combined with mantra and yantra to reach the almighty so all three mantra, tantra and yantra combined makes the sadhana or seeker of god successfull.

Far from it tantra was not made or designed to make our sexual life any better..rather a means to attain god through sex if i could put it in this way...

Tantra has around 700 technique or ways to reach god only one of it is through sex.

unfortunately, tantra and sex is all we see now a days....

You get sexually elevated through tantra no doubt about it....but it has to be done with mantra and yantra with a partner or consort, helping each other in the process we reach god well that is the baseline of tantric sex.

Now we only see sex with tantra and the ways to get elevated through it...but the real aim of tantra is to get us beyond the sexual pleasure and reach god....sexual pleasure is the medium or the string to reach the god....

But the books and author for way of making money..just print those which make us reach sexual pleasure ..but they themselfs haven't crossed the limit of sexual pleasure to reach beyond it, so wouldn't know how to go about it...

soo all these books, seminars have one end that is pleasure through tantra while the real meaning and aim gets lost.

Tantric belives that through tantra we get elevated to a sexual leval thats beyond the norm of normal sex lifes but wht he aims to acheive is to reach the height of sexual pleasure yet to go beyond it to reach almightly.

Tantra should in the real sense be done only under the guidance of a guru who has reached and experienced the truth beyond pleasure.

But wht we have now is people who with the help of tantra take us to pleasure but not beyond it cos they themselves have not controlled there urges in a way still under training. They must be avoided.

Tantra is in itself a whole religion and a vast study that takes years to master it, so for us folks to get those momemtary pleasures from it, is not worth taking half done karma to our next lifes.

I would suggest for the time being stick to those blue pill even in india we don't find real tantric's who would want to come in to the material world of pleasure and share his experience so all we have is hosh-posh tantric who for making quick bucks..just copy cut and paste info from other books and wolaa...

Tantra has really nothing to do with sex....and at one stage if you constantly practice it for just getting pleasure and also not under the guidance of a guru....im afraid it would have nagative effect on you....im not trying to scare you guys...but it has effect thats like sub-atomic or meta-physical..it will effect your life as a whole and worse you may carry your half done burden to your next life and your whole life will be for seeking for end of what you started by wandering around.

Well...In those times...Indian civilisation was understandable enough to know that testosterone leval's in men would not allow them to live in words alone...nor it would keep tantra from being misused..so they brought the grand kamasutra.

we all know about it...and it is perfectly safe even if you read the whole book backwards....yeahh ...its the grand daddy off all sexual pleasure. What you ever wanted to know about sex and its ways you got it in kamasutra....Its the one stop for all things related to sexual pleasure.

You would find it quite amazing that kamasutra is just one chapter on sexuality from the main book called kamakanda. It had around 100 chapter each with 1000 pages , it even says on wht date and on wht time one must do sex for having so and so siblings...

Go for kamasutra than tantra...yeah no side effects better than even blue pill...

[BigthDikth]

I know a little bit about the Kamasutra, the book that Tantric meditation is based on. Translated to English "kama" means action and "sutra" means primate and when put together "Kamasutra" translates to "naughty little monkeys spanking one another"

(sorry BL5, I could not resist! :-)

[Starchild2012]

I think this will clear it: from wiki pedia

Kama Sutra, generally known to the Western world as Kama Sutra, is an ancient Indian text on human sexual behavior, widely considered to be the standard work on love in Sanskrit literature. The text was composed by Vatsyayana, as a brief summary of various earlier works belonging to a tradition known generically as Kama Shastra, the science of love. Kama is literally desire. Sutra signfies a thread, or discourse threaded on a series of aphorisms. Sutra was a standard term for a technical text, thus also the Yogasutram of Patanjali. The text is originally known as Vatsyayana Kamasutram ("Vatsyayana's Aphorisms on Love").

[It Travel]

What do you think about www.omen.ru ? i see plenty of 12 yo girls, frightening !!!

Dear Vince,

www.omen ru is a normal chat and meeting point in internet. There are a lot of things…

Surely you do not know basic Russian if you make such considerations… look at it trough www.translate.ru, you will find pros, girls for sponsor (I have been with one for a long weekend) at a dinner with two (one not bad at all, one too expensive)…

You can just find what you like.

Mind that a Russian girl (like the one I got to dinner in January) aging 19 has approximately same sexual experience as a non married western women in the late 20’s. Of course this is not true for all… but… basically it is so even if they are not pro. The 20 y.o. chubby nice blondinka I med via www.omen.ru just some weeks ago told me that she could not even imaging living without sex.

And PLEASE… go off 12 y.o. girls advertising only for some internet chat!!!

IT

[Easyfil]

Hello,

I am planning a trip to Russia. Dose anyone know of an English speaking sight where I could find girls who want a sponsor?

[Gentleman Travel]

Hello,

I am planning a trip to Russia. Dose anyone know of an English speaking sight where I could find girls who want a sponsor?Check out:

www.bad-russian-girls.com

It is an English language site, although I don't know if the girls necessarily can communicate in English. Then search on keywords like - sponsor, support, English, sugar daddy ... whatever you think relates to what you are after. A number of the girls talk about sponsorship, or being employed for sex with the boss (what a great country!) but in many cases I don't see how what their offering is any different from escort services. Maybe more of them are interested in pay by the week instead by the hour.

I cannot vouch for this web-site in any way - I haven't contacted any of the girls yet. Anyone care to comment on "bad-russian-girls"?

[Member #4732]

I'd be very skeptical of sponsorship unless you are rich and money is a non issue. Then I can't argue with it since there are surely some gorgeous girls looking for sponsors.

But from a cost perspective, it seems to have a lot of downside to me compared to using the same $ on a bunch of different girls. When I see a girl looking for a sponsor, I think of someone who wants to be taken to the most chic clubs, eat at the best restaurants and shop at the nicest stores, in exchange for the least amount of sex possible. For the girl it is a good deal. For the guy ... I am skeptical. Now if I were Donald Trump or a Russian oligarch, or a one woman man, then I might see it differently.

Also, a caveat, all people are different and I am speaking in generalizations, so I am sure that there are some wonderful, girls looking for sponsors as well as the golddiggers. Good luck.

[Lubricate It]

I live in Tokyo, and occasionally you will see an old Japanese guy in his 60s or 70s with a sweet slim young blonde thing, probably Russian, on his arm. She looks a bit embarassed when she catches your glance. Judging from the way the guy behaves, I am sure they are married. She would need that to reside here for any length of time. She doubtlessly is supplementing her income (building up a reserve) by working in a hostess club or something similar...

[Doctor_Skank]

I have personally never gotten too involved in the sponsorship game as it doesnt really match my lifestyle or my schedule.

I have contacted several though, and essentially girls looking for sponsorship are just clever pros.

Although many will do an overnight job or work for a couple of hours, most of them are looking for some kind of more permanent relationship. It is not exactly the same market as normal pros. They want guys who will give them a few thousand $ a month. For this money they are on-call fuckbunnies/escorts.

I find that an average-looking girl looking for sponsorship wants about $3000/month for her services. The better looking ones want more, the model-type considerably more. I even found one model that wanted $20,000 for a few hours, and she was dead serious. Thankfully she wasn't my type or I would have taken her immediately...:)

Upper tier sponsorship girls will occasionally do overnight (part-time work if you will), usually wanting at least $300+. The better looking ones wanted about $500. Some do hourly service for $100/hour with a two hour minimum, however the majority of the better-looking ones aren't really interested in a short-term deal. I am sure you can find ones that want less, but these are usually only average in looks.

In the end, they are not cheaper than normal pros. Where they might be of advantage is from a GFE standpoint, since you can build a relation with them. Things like BBBJ and kissing are par for the course if you are sponsoring them for more than just one night.

An interesting market is certainly "sponsoring" true amateurs, girls who aren't pros at all but need money. It will take some nerve to ask these girls if they need to earn some extra cash, but having some nerve will serve you well in Russia...

IT Travel posted some interesting info on short-term sponsorship in his recent Moscow reports, with pictures in the picture section. He seemed to do quite well and be happy with the results achieved.

[Big Bro AJ]

One way or another sponsorship is to become “sugar daddy” ...I prefer toy boy...:) :)

I have come to Moscow for limited time, why do I hang out with only one girl. It doesn’t matter how many girls are willing or available. At the end you stick with one girl.

Moscow is full of opportunities...

[Member #4732]

My comments are not based on first hand experience but with observing obvious sponsor - sponsored couples in places like Magrib, where the girls look bored and aloof , and in the sponsor ads themselves. For instance nearly all "looking for sponsor" ads contain warning phrases like "cheap men need not respond" and "I am used to comfortable life and good things". Basically, they are setting the terms right up front that they expect to be treated like gold and given gold. If its one thing I don't want to deal with it it would be the "fuzzy" aspect of a sponsorship. First there is the up fixed cost, that is not too bad, you can negotiate that up front. But then there can be the subtle manipulation where every interaction she can pout and bring out the "I thought you were not cheap" thing on you. I had enough fuzzy manipulation in marriage.

To each his own. Personally, I think that many, note I said many, not all, girls looking for sponsors as "lazy *****s" who don't want to think of themselves as *****s, but still are willing to sell their bodies for money, and are actually more interested in you the more money you have to give. At least with regular *****s if we connect I know it is not because I am paying them MORE then other guys, nor am I paying for some future time. Its right there and now and if it is hot, it is hot withouth pretense. She is already paid and she doesn't have to put on a show. With a sponsorship you do not even have that "free moment". For all you know when she is acting hot it is just to prime you for for the next shopping spree. But again, if you have a big wallet and like the company of a beauty, and who doesn't, then yes vive le difference. And to be honest, if I had money to burn, I would give it a whirl and see if I hit the jackpot.

[Gentleman Travel]

I have been surprised not to see much talk here about drug use/addiction by the p4p girls. I would have assumed that was a big factor in driving so many girls into prostitution. It certainly strikes me as an important potential risk factor for us, both from a health and personal security point of view. Are many of the girls addicts, or is that just some classes, like street walkers or line-up girls?

[Doctor_Skank]

GT,

Maybe just my luck, but I've never met a single pro that obviously used any hard drugs like heroin or crack or anything.

Pot, X, coke etc. are in fairly common use in Russia as anywhere, but not more so by prostitutes in my opinion. Many pros dont even drink. In fact, the vast majority of pros I met looked quite healthy all around. I also felt pros in Russia looked healthier than the ones I met in Ukraine. I honestly think most pros want to keep their wits about them in such a potentially dangerous environment.... that is being in a strange apartment and essentially at the mercy with one or more men. I often actually wish my pros would drink more than they do, but alas lately most dont drink more than a glass or two of Martini, Baileys or beer.

You will find drug-abusing pros if you look hard enough however, like down by the train stations or drug-abuser hangouts like certain public parks (every city has them), but usually these girls arent present in the stream of pros we are exposed to, at least not in Moscow and St.Pete.

This likely has to do with the fact that the kind of prostitution we are exposed to is highly regulated and that a drug-abusing or sick pro is a bad product. Moscow's mainstream form of street prostitution, the tochka, is highly regulated and although the girls may be quite rough, I never met any that where in really rough physical shape.

The worst looking pros I have ever seen were in Ukraine (particularly Odessa), Gypsies Bulgaria, China, Thailand and Hong Kong. Then again, I've never been to Tijuana.

If you are desperate to meet drug-abusing diseased pros, try Russia's highways and exterior roads... the truck driver circuit. You can get laid there for a couple of bucks... and catch any disease you fancy.

I realize that poor health and drug abuse aren't always easy to detect, but it is a factor that I dont think is more prominent in Russia than in other places and in fact may be less prominent, especially in the normal prostitution circles. Just my 2 cents.

[Maharadjah]

One week before i have received an email from ALINA BELCHIKOVA.
this girl lived in Irstrusk and wanted to live abroad with a guy.
As i am suspisious i echanged several mail but her mails was very basic but the photos beautiful (see the attachment).
She made long letters without answering me directly. I think that i was in a list.
And today she wrote me saying that she is in moscow and she need money by western union to buy her ticket.

i must admit that all was well done and if you are a little bit weak you can beleive her.
So guys, keep away from her you will save your money.

MR

[Big Bro AJ]

Sorry but there is no cure for this addiction…

The passion and beauty of Russian women already affect you. Once you got it there is no turning back. Not only their beauty or natural sexuality but also their warm and desirable company forces you to bind them.

This affects you more in a normal relation with non-pro Russian woman. I was charmed at first sight and since than have a serious relation with one in last 5 months and now non-Russian women look too ordinary in all means.

Welcome to the Club….

[CA Traveler]

RENTING AN APARTMENT IN Ukraine or Russia…

One of the common questions that I see on both Russia and Ukraine threads is whether to book a hotel or an apartment when you visit Odessa, Moscow, Kiev, St. Petersburg, et. al. In my opinion, apartment living is really the only way to enjoy the Former Soviet Union, FSU, without being subjected to high hotel rates, sometimes poor service and a possible lack of privacy that most Western travelers find unacceptable.

Over the years, much has been written about the advantages and disadvantages of apartment and hotel accommodations in the former Soviet Union (FSU), but little has been written about what to look for in an apartment…

Over the last three years in Moscow and Odessa operating an apartment rental business and several years before traveling in the FSU, I have visited at least 300 apartments either as a guest or a potential tenant. In that time, I have formed many opinions and tried to solve them with my apartment rental company. BUT, what I have just realized is that the average traveler, especially one who has never traveled to the FSU, may not understand the significance of some of the more important, for the FSU, features of a true Western/European-style apartment with the owner/operator from either Europe or the USA.

This primer is based on my observations and may not be complete, but it may help you begin to understand the significance and important questions to ask the person who you are considering renting an apartment from in Ukraine or Russia…

For the average traveler to the FSU, their first contact with a company who rents apartments or with the apartment itself is from viewing photos on the internet. Typically the person likes some feature about the company and/or the apartment. However, the first thing that you should know is that what is inside of the four walls that comprise the apartment should only be one of your concerns and no matter how beautiful the apartment is there are many other factors which will all combine to make your stay either comfortable and enjoyable or… a long nightmare!

Your first “real” view of the apartment building may come when you arrive after your long trip to Russia or Ukraine. When you realize that you are going live in “that” building, and hopefully to bring guests to it, because of your exhaustion you may find yourself in denial. You remember that the photos of the interior of the apartment are nice and everything appears so… so organized! Yet, now you look at the building and you see make-shift structures on the side of your building and others nearby… Laundry is hanging out the windows… Balconies look like they will fall if a fly lands and squats for more than a second… You find yourself asking yourself… HOW CAN THIS BE?

To begin, most apartments in Ukraine and Russia were present during the Soviet Union which means that many of the other building residents probably lived in their nearby apartments for years or decades before you arrive. One of the offshoots of this reality is that during Soviet times; NO ONE cared about the common areas of the building or around the building.

This means that the outside of the building, the entrance, stairways, elevators and halls will have most likely endured decades of abuse by both residents and non-residents. This abuse will include trash, graffiti, broken rails/steps, lack of lighting, non-functional elevators, foul odors, dogs and cats and other unexplained ominous conditions… just to name a few.

This situation may be first apparent when you see the entry door to the building. The entry doors to the majority of FSU buildings are in the rear or in a courtyard which can be more isolated than a front entry. The actual entry door will probably be designed to be “secure” or coded, but what does this mean to you?

When you first arrive, you may find the “secure” door wide open or the “secret” code well worn on the numbers so that it takes a local, resident or not, about 5 milliseconds to open the secure door because they know the technique… However, when you arrive home from the market on the first day or late at night with your bride for the night or after attempting to corner the market on vodka at the nearest watering hole, it will take you several minutes, which can seem like hours, and may require a call for help, which is OK… as long as they speak English!

You may ask… Is it really that bad? No, it can get worse, once you get into the building, you may find that it is totally dark, even in the day time! So once in, you may be faced with transiting the strange stairs and halls without light and then inserting your key into the keyhole… all by feel!

However, as bad as the building entry, stairs, elevator, and hall are, you may be surprised at how nice the apartment is… IF it has been remodeled to Western or European-quality standards. Otherwise, you may find a Soviet-style apartment that has been cleaned up, hopefully, and is functional and, hopefully, comfortable. One thing that is common to every Soviet-style apartment, and many newly remodeled apartments as well, is the lack-of screens on the windows! This is not a problem when the snow is flying, but in the other three seasons, if you want some fresh air you will soon find that you are on the day’s menu for every mosquito and biting fly in the nearby oblast! Now you may say that you can easily get by with the window closed… Easy to say when you are sitting at home making reservations, but difficult to achieve when the babushka downstairs or down the hall begins making her daily ration of cabbage soup or begins her regimen of seasonal pickling of various root vegetables!

NO… It can’t be that bad… Can it? No, it can get worse! You’ll soon find that the apartment owner either has not spent the money or did not consider it important to set the apartment up for the constant nemesis of shortages in the FSU… Whether it is water pressure, water supply, no hot water, no water, no heat, no air conditioning, no internet, no washing machine, no toaster, no microwave, no long distance telephone calls, just to name a few of the more common challenges.

Of course, EVERY apartment is open to any problem, but the most frustrating thing is when you call the apartment service you used to rent the apartment only to find that they have to contact the local landlord and ask… WHY? WHEN? WHY SO LONG? I thought YOU were the owner?

All of this time, you are the one suffering when you have NO water… NO hot water… NO water pressure, etc. etc. etc. While it may not seem important when you book, it may become the focal point of your “vacation” when you find you must endure a cold shower just when your hormones and, more importantly, your bride for the night’s hormones are raging and juices are flowing… UNTIL THAT COLD SHOWER SHOCKS EVERYONE BACK TO REALITY!

I know… but it can’t be that bad… Can it??? No, it can still get worse! You see, the apartment service may be the nicest people on earth, BUT if they do not own the apartment, they have to deal with and through the local Russian/Ukrainian landlord who will not see any urgency in a situation that they have had to deal with since they were in swaddling clothes! In fact, any Ukrainian or Russian landlord OR apartment rental company operated by Russians or Ukrainians, even if they have lived in the west, will have a different attitude towards solving your problems in the apartment than you are used to in the West because they understand that THIS IS A FACT OF LIFE in the FSU and is viewed as normal and not an emergency.

The only time I have seen Russian or Ukrainian landlords or apartment providers respond immediately to ANYTHING, is if something is flooding because they know they are libel IF damage is caused to a neighbor’s downstairs apartment!

In reality, this can still be a problem even if the apartment service owns the apartment IF they do not have personnel on staff to deal with these problems, i.e. electricians, plumbers, handyman, because they must still call and get a local service man to recognize the sense of urgency that you feel to solve the problem.

Of course, many times it is not the major problem that really tips you over the edge… It is the small things that a Westerner takes for granted when they check into new accommodations while traveling. Little things like…
paper towels… a fresh bar of soap, in a wrapper… a cork screw… multiple rolls of toilet paper… a toaster… a hair dryer… a personal safe… trash cans... just to name a few!

BUT, my biggest frustration in all of my times renting apartments before I got in the apartment rental business, is the bed linen! It seems that Ukrainian and Russian landlords tend to buy the cheapest sheets that are available, which equates to the smallest! Combine that with the fact that fitted sheets are either not available or not used by locals and all of a sudden you have the “Perfect Storm”! I’ve actually had the apartment providers lay a sheet on the mattress, the bare mattress without a mattress cover or pad! If you can visualize the bottom sheet laying on top of the mattress… the edge of the mattress is actually framing the sheet since the sheet is too small to even attempt to tuck in. BUT, even if the sheet can be tucked in, it is usually so small that after you are in bed, if you make any move other than scratching your nose twice, you’ll soon wake up sleeping on at least part of the bare mattress. In my mind, that is when the nightmares really start because if you are on the bare mattress, WHO ELSE has been on the same bare mattress AND doing what???? People… This is not my definition of SAFE SEX!!!

SO… What do you do and how do you as a first-time visitor to Ukraine/Russia help prevent this from happening to you?

I have prepared a list of questions that you may want to ask your potential apartment provider if it is not covered on the website:

1. Where is the apartment located? Is the area safe? How far is the nearest market? How far from public transportation.

2. What is the front entry door on the building like? What is security like? What is the building like?

3. How much does the airport transfer cost? To? From?

4. Who owns this apartment? Is the owner local in the area? What nationality is the owner? Does he speak English? Will you provide me the phone number of the owner?

5. What happens if I should cancel the reservation after I make a deposit? Are your terms and conditions of rental published on your website? What if I have to depart early? May I use my credit card to pay the deposit? To pay the full bill upon arrival? Do you have your own merchant account or must I use PayPal? I’ve been told PayPal is not accessible in Ukraine or Russia for credit cards issued in the USA/Europe/Canada… is this true?

6. Do you use city central service heat? Hot water? Will the heat/hot water/water be shut off at anytime during my stay? What will you do if it is? Does the apartment have its own boiler for hot water? Heat? Can I control the heat in the apartment myself? Can I control the hot water in the apartment myself?

7. Does the apartment have a back-up water supply? What is the situation with the water pressure? Do you have a pump in the apartment to supplement the water pressure? What happens if the water is shut off?

8. Who do I call if something breaks in the apartment? How long is a typical response? Do you have workmen on the payroll yourself? What kind of workman?

9. Are there lights in the building hallway? What happens if the lights are out in the building stairs/halls?

10. Are there animals on the floor of the apartment? Do the hallways smell? Is the entrance door kept open or is it always locked and secure?

11. Is there an air conditioner? How often do you clean the A/C filters? Are there screens on the windows?

12. Do the bottom sheets fit the bed? Are they fitted sheets? Do the mattresses have mattress pads?

13. Is the apartment equipped with…

a. Paper towels
b. Toilet paper
c. Waste baskets
d. Towels… how many? Can I get extra towels?
e. Laundry soap
f. Bath soap
g. A personal safe
h. Toaster
i. Coffee maker
j. Microwave oven
k. Washing machine

14. If I have a problem, who do I call? 24 hours every day?

15. How thick are the walls? Can I hear the people next door snoring?


These questions and answers may help you to weed out the undesirable locations, apartments, landlords, or apartment service providers. Many of the questions have answers that only you will know the answer because it may or may not be important to you, but many of them have set answers that should be an immediate red flag. For instance, unless an apartment provider has published terms and conditions, you are virtually assured that once they have your deposit, you will never see it again. Of course, sometimes they even tell you that up front!

In addition, if the apartment uses city central heat and hot water, but does not have an individual boiler and a backup water supply, you could find yourself without hot water during the warmer months or without water at any time. Of course, even a back-up water supply will only last so long, but at least it will help smooth out the short outages that are so common in the FSU.

The other really bad situation for you is when you’ve done your homework and booked an apartment only to arrive and find that you are in a totally different apartment. Now, please understand that this is sometimes unavoidable because bad things sometimes happen and an apartment has to be taken out of service or if it is not owned by the apartment rental company, the landlord decides to rent it to someone else. In this case, you must have a comfort level with the integrity of the apartment rental company to be secure that they will put you into an apartment that is of equal or higher standard than the one that you booked.

The last point I will emphasize is that throughout this I mention the nationality of the owner of the apartment service rental company or the landlord. This is not to imply that the person who is not American or European is a bad person, but rather that there could be communication problems along the way if the person does not speak English as well as they speak Russian or Ukrainian. The person may be a very nice person, but they just do not understand and have difficulty communicating or understanding the situation. At the same time, it can be difficult for someone to understand a high-level of customer service if they have either never experienced it and therefore have no role model for its use or they just see no need for customer service in the first place… after all “THIS” is how it has been done in Russia/Ukraine for the past century!

One last caution… Testimonial letters on apartment rental companies are probably one of the most abused things on the Internet. I laugh when I see my competitors with perfectly written letters supposedly written by their guests and I see the same phrases used that are used in the website pages and with the same words misspelled! I understand that it can be tempting to put in letters from your friends and/or to clean up the letters so that they are perfect and say just what you want them to say! BUT, it doesn’t necessarily give the reader an honest opinion of the service and quality of what is being delivered. On top of this, it is very, very unusual for a testimonial to be “perfect”. Normally it is hastily written and grammatical and spelling errors are common, but in my opinion, that makes them real! For that reason, I make sure that the testimonials that go on our website go on with all of the “warts” exposed. If the guest misspelled a word, it stays, if the letter is both positive and negative, you will see it all. Only the personal items relevant to that particular guest’s information may be edited out.

Now, all of that said, I want to emphasize that renting an apartment is the ONLY way to go in Ukraine and Russia… It is more cost effective, more private, and can be more satisfying and comfortable IF you do your homework. For the most part, apartment rental companies that I have worked with are OK people… they are not out to cheat you, but rather they just don’t have the same standards that you are used to and this may be reflected in their properties, their service and their actions… THIS IS YOUR CHALLENGE!

[CharlieH]

Thanks for the input, CAT.

I think that staying at an apartment definitely has its advantages. The most obvious ones being cheaper and freebies feeling more comfortable to come over as opposed to come to a hotel and be mistaken as prostitutes.

But one thing always bothers me and has actually stopped me from staying in an apartment is I don't feel safe in there. I know my belongings and safety would be fine if I stay at a reputable hotel. But I just don't feel comfortble staying at apartments I found on the web, partucularly the apartments in Russia! I just don't know if somebody is gonna steal my stuff (money, IDs) or even worse, kidnapp me while I'm sleeping. Afterall, this is Russia. I would probably feel comfortable renting an apartment for a short stay in the US but I just don't feel comfortable doing the same in Russia.

I have stayed at Rick's apartments because I had heard of him on this forum. I think he's ok but I don't trust the people that work for him. I don't think they're honest. Well, let's just say I know they're not :-(

I was shown a few apartments in Minsk. They were so much cheaper than Hotel Minsk. But I just couldn't get rid of the thought that as soon as I move in there and go out for a walk, all my stuff would be gone. Think about this for a second, you're in a foreign country, and we're not talking US, Canada,etc... You don't speak the language, and the local people and police are not known for their honesty. I'm not saying they're all dishonest or criminals. I'm sure most apartment operators are fine. But I think it's a legit concern that one feels a bit uneasy, particularly people new to Russia.

Still, apartments' relative cheaper rates will keep me coming back. I need the extra cash for girls :-(

[CA Traveler]

ch... your concern is not unreasonable or unusual! obviously there are people and companies in every city in the world who are not honest. that said, most apartment rental companies survive on word of mouth... in today's world, a few bad comments about something that happened to you in minsk or st. petersburg can kill a company renting apartments. so, from that standpoint, most companies will not knowingly put you at risk because they have more to lose than some cash and a watch. so, for the most part, i wouldn't worry about that.

at the same time, most apartments whether they are owned by the apartment rental company or a local have the apartment set up to be secure from the inside. if it isn't, then you have reason to worry, but in reality, most russian and ukrainians are more worried about security than you are!

however, it you don't stay out in the boondocks and stick to the center of the city you should be safe... perhaps even safer than staying in a fancy western hotel because thieves tend to prey on the guests because they have money as demonstrated by the fact that they are in a hotel. why should they waste their time around an apartment building mostly filled with russians who may not have a pot to [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134) in?

speaking only about odessa, moscow and kiev, i have walked around at all hours of the night and i've never had a single problem. i have also not had a major problem in spb, but i know personally enough people who have had problems and have read enough papers to know that spb is not a generally safe city and should be considered dangerous to tourists.

overall though, i will tell you that you probably have nothing to worry about, but that said, apartments may not be for everyone.

[Big Bro AJ]

I have been mongering in 3 continents and several cities; become addicted the sinful company of beautiful women (EE girls preferred) and finally date with a mamushka.

I have been reading “Call Girl” by Jeannette Angell; 32 years old college professor who studied and though anthology, religion and literature, became escort due to her financial problems.

Since I‘ve begun to read this book, I kept asking this same question: What a freak I am? Am I one of those lonely guy who deny to admit their fears to meet new people (woman) and convince themselves to meet with escorts like a real date.

I have some answers, but never enough to be make sure that they are the right ones. Maybe this is the beauty of mystery that life plays or tricks us.

Maybe this is what the author expects to create on readers.

[CharlieH]

I recall someone posted something along the lines of "I want your sweet, wet pussy" or something like that in Russian a while ago but I couldn't seem to find it. Can someone tell me how to say it in Russian again? "I want your sweet, wet pussy" Thanks!

Also, how do you say blowjob and "I want to eat your pizda"?

[Fasterlaster]

Well, firstly I am not a newbie in Russia, having spent five years working in Moscow, and speak some Russian. Know the Moscow scene extremely well, but have now bowed out from Moscow as I resigned from my Corporate Position and am now idling my time in France debating what to do next. Money isn't a BIG issue here but really need advice.

Can anyone advise any other city where I can hang out for 6 months, that has hot chicks and where I can rent a reasonable apartment? I know Nizhny Novgorod (a dump), Kaliningrad (ok'ish), Voronezh (scary) and Volgograd (the best of the bunch) but they didn't strike me as mongering cities really. I don't really want St Petes as its too touristy (Moscow is getting overrun with foreigners as it is).

I would consider Moldova/Ukraine (any other ideas?) - just some largish town/city, nice cheap apartments (not looking for Western Remont) and where there are FEW tourists but PLENTY of hot women. Has to be EE as I can speak OK Russian and thats always a help.

I had Sochi as an idea - could be a great one - but REALLY need advice. Also if one of you guysd wants to join me we can share an apartment - looking at 4 months (can vary) starting in the next week or so.

Cheers guys!

[CA Traveler]

FL... after living in Moscow for almost two years, it took me about two weeks to forget about Moscow and move to Odessa. I suggest a scouting mission to Odessa to see what you think. If you like good weather, a beautfiul city center that you can walk everywhere, low prices, very beautiful women, great clubs and a beach, Odessa can't be beat... especially in the next six months!

[CA Traveler]

vv... Only in my mind...

[Fasterlaster]

I have always respected your reports, especially Moscow dude. I really should get off my ass and report on Moscow myself, not many places my drunken ass hasn't been.

Odessa? You MAY think I'm crazy but **** it, I'm going, in the next few days, its a great idea, I loved Kiev (some $100/hour chick I found there gave me an AMAZING time, expensive I guess but well worth it then). The Chicks in Kiev were, ermmm, megatastical. I could even spot Ukrainian women in Moscow (just the sheer hotness of their looks).

Any Odessa advice (I'll read it via my laptop on t-mobile wifi at the various airports on my travels) from any of you guys (I'll switch forums now).

One problem though - I look kinda Arabic/Georgian/Romanian, although I'm from France, it was never a problem in Moscow - how about Odessa? ACtually wasn't a problem in Kiev but I was only there 2 weeks!

As they say in England, "In for a penny in for a pound". I'm coming. Any fellow mongerers want to join me? heck I'm gonna have to pay to subscribe to the boards messaging service Jackson!

[CA Traveler]

FL... I suggest that you wait until June... It's spring here now, but the beaches aren't in full motion yet, but in a very few weeks things will be going strong.

We have plenty of apartments from 1 June forward and I think, it will be a little warmer and more fun.

[Seefahrer]

Check out:

www.bad-russian-girls.com

It is an English language site, although I don't know if the girls necessarily can communicate in English. Then search on keywords like - sponsor, support, English, sugar daddy ... whatever you think relates to what you are after. A number of the girls talk about sponsorship, or being employed for sex with the boss (what a great country!) but in many cases I don't see how what their offering is any different from escort services. Maybe more of them are interested in pay by the week instead by the hour.

I cannot vouch for this web-site in any way - I haven't contacted any of the girls yet. Anyone care to comment on "bad-russian-girls"?I have used www.BadRussianGirls.com which, which I guess is a version of www.Bad-Russian-Girls.com you mentioned.

In most cases it worked well for me.

However, my impression is that the girls listed there are (almost) all working girls (paid by hour, if you like), no matter what they say in the comments section.
Which does not make them less attractive, some of them.

It is a thin line sometimes.

Phones are often answered by some babushka-phone-operator ('dispetcher') - guess those are still cheaper in Russia than answering machines...

You need to be speaking at least some Russian.

Anyway, there is another site - www.GoodRussianGirls.com there are girls who seem to not mind 'no-strings-attached' relationships.

Anyone has experience with the good girls site?

[Gentleman Travel]

There have been a couple of posts on the General and Moscow threads that I would like to get feedback on.

Basically, are www.bad-russian-girls.com and www.russiansexbombs.com legitimate? The problem is that both these sites charge a membership fee (I think $15/month) whereas in many other cases russian escorts pay for their own ads. Perhaps it is because these sites operate in English, so they need (or can command) a premium from users. But maybe they are just compilation sites - like so many "brides" sites are - recirculating images and data gleaned off original sites. Or worse, just model photos put up to generate subscription fees.

I see Helena Moscow listed on both these sites, with what appears to be accurate info, so I assume they are not a total scam. Helena, did you list your services on these sites and can you comment on these sites?

The sites are displayed in English, but very few of the girls mention English language, so I wonder if it is assumed that most do, or just left unsaid, so we assume (mistakenly) they speak English?

Another site I wonder about is www.aprettywoman.com. It is more of a "bride" site, but one in which the girls do not speak so much of marriage - so it looks like they are more "open minded" about the kinds of relationships they are seeking. Which is great, but I wonder also if it is just a fees and mail-forwarding scheme. Has anyone actually connected with a girl from this site?

Any feedback would be welcome,

Gentleman Traveller

[Wanking]

Ok, maybe she is just a joke, but she is pretty disgusting looking.

Check out her videos here. (http://my*************.com/?p=105)

[Certainlee]

russians, busy making shrouds, are asked to make babies

by c. j. chivers, new york times, moscow

president vladimir v. putin drew from the soviet past on wednesday when he championed the role of motherhood in preventing russia from becoming a state short of citizens.

russia's population is shrinking, and demographers warn that it is within a generation of plummeting. if the most pessimistic models hold, the decline could make the country a vast, underpopulated state within four or five decades, a country with too few healthy people for a competitive work force or a capable army.

russian life, for the peasantry and the proletariat alike, has always been unforgiving. and in a speech reminiscent of soviet pledges of the state helping the masses so that the masses might help the state, mr. putin chose the familiar soviet solution of encouraging stalwart reproduction, telling his obedient parliament to enact programs of financial incentives to women to have more children.

the kremlin-friendly news media here, a place that often feels like the land of the family with a single child, crowed in approval. the president had spoken: here is the money, he had essentially said; russian mothers, fulfill your role.

beneath the enthusiasm was a question mr. putin did not address. will cash incentives work? the data would say: not quite.

there is little doubt that for russia to be a power through the 21st century its demographic trends must be reversed. there also seems to be no question that russian mothers, short of feats of fertility unseen in the industrialized world, cannot save russia alone.

"you have to do this in a variety of ways," said dr. murray feshbach, a demographer who studies the russian population and its health.

the problems can be found in the numbers. russia has roughly 143 million people, and the population drops an average of 700,000 each year, largely because of the wide gap between the number of those born and the number who die. more babies will help. but as the population shrinks, dr. feshbach said, it risks an accelerating collapse that fertility itself cannot reverse.

this is in part because the low birthrate is more than two decades old, and the number of women ages 20 to 29, the most fecund segment of the population, has already fallen to 12 million, he said. in the next several years, women that age will fall to eight million or fewer — a small contingent to bear the next generation.

and as analysts at the world bank and the united nations have pointed out, the threat to the population is not just low birthrates but high death rates.

the russian people are deeply unhealthy, so much so that there is no demographic group in the industrial world as ailing and prone to fatal injury as the russian male, whose average age at death is about 59. abysmal mortality trends separate russia from other industrial nations that offer incentives to stimulate population growth, including japan and australia.

moreover, pernicious infections have entered the population since soviet times, making the country a growing reservoir of people recently infected with tuberculosis, h.i.v. and hepatitis c.

many of these infections have not yet turned into high rates of disease, but public health authorities say that as the incubation periods run their course over the next several years, their effects on national health will be evident.

tuberculosis is already at epidemic levels, and an expected surge in aids cases and hepatitis complications could, by the most dire models, kill more than half a million people a year in a generation or two.

there are signs that russia is waking to the problems. last month, the kremlin pushed through a roughly twentyfold increase in its paltry financing for aids prevention, diagnosis and treatment — a sign of an understanding of the severity of the problem, said dmitry rechnov, a deputy director of aids foundation east west, a private organization here.

"if we keep on this track, there can be a number of positive developments," he said.

still, the kremlin's attention to public health has been uneven, and expected increases in mortality related to infectious disease would push up a death rate already driven above norms in industrial nations by high rates of heart disease, cancer, alcoholism, accidents, violence and suicide.

the potential consequences are clear. in a report released last year, the world bank warned that if russia did not adopt comprehensive public health programs, it risked a shrinking work force, destabilized families, strains on national security and a drain on the gross domestic product.

and not everyone agrees that cash incentives, which are not part of a comprehensive health program, will even achieve what the kremlin hopes — more healthy and productive children.

if mr. putin's proposals pass, as they almost certainly will, then next year mothers will receive bonuses worth about $9,000 for giving birth, as well as a graduating scale of monthly cash allowances for infants and subsidies for day care.

many women said in interviews that they welcomed the plans. with low salaries, tiny, crowded apartments and rising costs of living, they at last saw a president offering relief, however small. let the baby boom begin, one said.

"many women will start having children," said katya druzhchenko, 19, a student who hopes to have three. "right now if you think about the economic situation for young women, it is just totally impossible."

but dr. ivan safranchuk, a middle-class father of two and director of the moscow office of the world security institute, an international think tank, said money-for-motherhood incentives would not work.

russian parents, he said, opt for few children not just because of financial worries but because infrastructure — parks, schools, hospitals, entertainment centers, transportation — is strained. he pointed to surging rates of car ownership to make a point.

"the message of the president, that people cannot afford kids, is not true," he said. "look at the rate of new cars in the country, especially of imported cars. all of these people can afford to give birth to kids, but they do not."

this is also because attitudes have become unwelcome to child-rearing, he said. "when you go to a restaurant or a social setting, the whole social infrastructure is unfriendly to your kids."

dr. safranchuk suggested that russia ought not offer cash incentives, but tax breaks. there are no child deductions on personal income taxes, except a small one for education costs.

rather than create a well-raised new generation, he said, the subsidies could encourage the poorest and least-educated women to have children, while having little influence on the family decisions in the middle class. mr. putin, he said, "has created a system which converts oil and gas into money; now he is creating a system that converts money into nothing, or that converts money into problems."

mr. putin did not go as far as past kremlin leaders, like stalin, who encouraged women to repopulate a nation thinned by repression and war by offering medals of maternal glory to mothers who brought forth seven, eight or nine children. the medals bore the words mother-heroine.

even were mr. putin to do so, the numbers suggest, without shifts in attitudes and widespread improvements, the traffic at maternity wards will remain slower than the russians' rush to the grave.

[Dant75]

Russians, Busy Making Shrouds, Are Asked to Make Babies

By C. J. CHIVERS, New York Times, Moscow
Right, good practice is to mention the author !


Russian ladies buy men on holiday
Original source = Secretaryacademy.net (http://www.sihteeriopisto.net/nayta_artikkeli.php?artikkeli_id=21)
(easy to find with a Google search)

[Easyfil]

I will be done my business in Moscow early, this will leave me with time to go out hunting. sine this is my fist time in Moscow I do not know where all the good pick up spots for amateurs and semi-pros are. Also if anyone know where any of these spots are in st. petes would be appreciated.

[Doctor_Skank]

When dating your Russian girl, just remember next to that loving affection and that sizzling sex, is a girl trying to get ahead in life and that you, in one way or another, whether you are Russian, American, European or whatever, somehow contribute to her education, social position, relative security or any one of a thousand other factors... and are somehow, in her conscious or subconscious perception, a profit to her. That is a fact that she can never avoid significantly factoring in her attraction to you.

This is not a bad thing, it is the nature of things.

If you think about it and apply a few skills, it is your ticket into her panties and when you've been there and tasted that pussy, its your free pass to keeping that pussy around for whenever you feel the urge.

[Bez Bezarra]

This is a thing, its nature, into her panties and you keep that pussy around.



I thought we were paying them TO LEAVE.

From that famous Dice Clay quote, "Unnnhhh....., get out!"

[San Tarm]

I thought we were paying them TO LEAVE.

From that famous Dice Clay quote, "Unnnhhh....., get out!"BB is my hero. Just made my day :-D

[Himself]

I thought we were paying them TO LEAVE.

From that famous Dice Clay quote, "Unnnhhh....., get out!"

Bez,

Good one!

I was never thinking of our hobby from that angle: You pay the girl a relative small fee to leave and get her away, because if she becomes your girl friend then it becomes expensive, and if you really falls into love with her and .... marry her, then it becomes the rip-off of your lifetime (for the second or third time depinding on how many marriages you have behind you....

HS

[Gentleman Travel]

i want to ask about using blackberries in russia & ukraine.

i am about to get one and i am trying to decide whether it is worthwhile to get the newest version 8700 which claims to be better for web browsing due to the "edge" - a higher speed communications protocol. my thinking is that if you can use a bb to browse the web, then there is no need to haul a notebook along on travels just to view escort & dating sites. but so far as i can tell, the edge network only exists in north america. does anyone know if it is coming to russia or ukraine? or has anyone found that older bbs are useful for this purpose?

secondly, is there any "wow" factor in having one of these devices in ee? i see guys talking about flashing expensive watches and cell phones as a way to make an impression on the dyevs, and wonder if blackberries are "cool" there or just nerdy?

gt

[Etaoin2003]

But so far as I can tell, the EDGE network only exists in North America.

http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2005/01/21/042.html

[CaptainNemo]

As a person who know everything about "cool", I can tell you that Blackberry is nerdy or dorky in any country.

World is moving to UMTS. It is fast than EDGE. So, you are actually using an old technology.

If you want to impress girls (or anyone), buy a Vertu.

http://www.vertu.com/

Girls get wet just by looking at it.

[Gentleman Travel]

I do not question your knowledge of cool - but for the cost of one of those phones ($6k - $30k) I can probably buy a girl outright from her family!

I will have to use a different method to impress the ladies.


As a person who know everything about "cool", I can tell you that Blackberry is nerdy or dorky in any country.

World is moving to UMTS. It is fast than EDGE. So, you are actually using an old technology.

If you want to impress girls (or anyone), buy a Vertu.

http://www.vertu.com/

Girls get wet just by looking at it.

[Bez Bezarra]

wait a sec!
six thousand bucks for a phone??

are ya fuckin serious?

what.
does it have hot naked sluts with dripping pussies on
pre-programmed video speed dial?

no really, something about gemstones or something?
or is it supposed to be for assholes that are so rich,
they don't even have an asshole.

uh,...hold up. yeah, i just called, they start at $4,600.00.
i think gt got this one right.

hey cap nematode, ya sikh bastard.
i think a vertu will go along well with nautilus and your
automobeel from the league of extraordinary gent-mongers.

[Chris 99]

Why is no one talking about Russian dating sites used by everyday Russian men and women? How do you think the average Russian working Joe finds an escort or masseuse?

He’s certainly not logging onto English language sites which cater to wealthy western men. At best his budget limits him to $20 or $30. Most of the time, in order to find an escort, he simply logs onto free Russian dating sites which are used daily by MILLIONS of Russian men and women throughout Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Moldova, Kazakhstan, and all the other former nations of the USSR.

These sites contain extensive search capabilities which allow you to choose gender of partner, age, city, region, country, etc. How do you know if the girl will work for cash? Profiles of girls seeking “Material Support” (Материальная поддержкa) are usually well highlighted and say интим за деньги (intimate relations for money). Some of these profiles are posted by escort agencies, while a great deal more are from independent girls.

The quantity of girls seeking “material support” is astounding. There are literally tens of thousands of “intimate relations for money” profiles and you will have little trouble finding profiles from even in the most remote cites of Russia, Ukraine, etc.

If you don’t mind deciphering Russian, your search can be even more rewarding if you look at the information inside the ladies’ profiles. Quite often a lady’s profile will say, “I want to find a sponsor” (Хочу найти спонсорa) under the section “Material Support”. These are just ordinary Russian girls (teachers, nurses, professionals, etc.) simply trying to earn a little extra money.

Even more interesting is looking for profiles of girls who aren’t necessarily looking for clients. Many women state the goal of their acquaintance (serious relationship, sexual relation “for one or two times”, regular sex between two people, group sex, etc.)

Under the section Сексуальные предпочтения (sexual preference), many girls state their sexual orientation (straight, bi, lesbian), if they have had heterosexual and homosexual relations, sexual preferences and how many times a day, week, etc. they like to have sex.

Russian girls are very liberal and many of them complete this section of their profile. Wouldn’t it be exciting to know right from the start that your new date is into guys and girls? Or that she desires sex multiple times a day. None of this is bullshit. Like I said earlier, Russian girls are very liberal and they are not afraid to state this information for everyone to see.

I have used these sites to plan a trip to Russia and a separate trip this summer to Ukraine. The first trip I visited multiple cities including Kazan, Ulyanovsk, Samara, Volgograd, Krasnodar and Sochi. I asked my favorite girl (from Krasnodar) to join me for 10 wonderful days on the Black Sea coast in Sochi. Krasnodar is convenient because it’s only a half day train ride to Sochi (easier for the girl to say “what the hey” and come along for the ride). It also has, in my opinion, the most beautiful girls in Russia (predominately Cossack heritage… they all seem to have blond hair, blue eyes and unbelievable figures).

This summer I spent a few days in Kiev, a few in Odessa, and the remaining two and half weeks in Crimea. I had one beautiful 19 year old from Moldova meet me in Odessa and join me for two weeks in Alushta. Price (for the girl) $100 per day all inclusive. Not bad in comparison to the rates of agencies in Moscow and Kiev. What I liked even more, she wasn’t a professional. She was a university student that I simply corresponded and propositioned over the internet.

I do speak a little Russian, but for those who don’t, you can find many girls (especially the younger 18-25 year olds) who speak English. If you really like one of the profiles and the girl doesn’t speak English, try English Russian translation software. It’s not perfect, but it does the job and you usually receive a free one month trial to see if you like it or not.

I’d even recommend these sites to men looking for a foreign bride. Forget about the expensive memberships and fees. 95% of Russian women use these sites, not the marriage sites for foreigners. To get started, try visiting Russian-Dating-Secrets.com (http://www.russian-dating-secrets.com).

They’ll show you how to find these sites and the simple step by step procedures to register, log on and search for girls. Most sites are solely in Russian, but after a little guidance and practice, you shouldn’t have a problem navigating freely throughout these sites.



EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for directions for posting a link to a specific report.

[Doctor_Skank]

Chris 99:

Thanks for the comprehensive report, but actually these dating sites ARE mentioned in the forum very often and have been discussed for a couple of years now already, both in terms of "sponsorship", hooking and normal dating. They are a very good method to meet girls, especially for cities outside of Moscow and St.Pete where finding pros isnt always as easy as in the main cities or when looking for a new girlfriend in an "out of the way" city.

And by the way, the sites are quite well-known in foreign countries in general. Some girls I know on the sites say they get as many as 100+ letters a day from Turkish, Italian or other European men, so as wonderful as the sites are, they are not a secret by any means.

[Chris 99]

Dr. Swank,

Apparently you and I are talking about two completely different types of sites.

At first I thought, maybe you're right, so I spent the last hour scrolling through the archives. I didn’t find one archive. I’ve also been logging onto similar forums for years. In all my years, I don’t recall any mention of these sites.

You said that “they ARE mentioned in the forum very often and have been discussed for several years”. I did find one site in the archives, http://omen.ru/, but this is a sex site, not a mainstream dating site used by hundreds of thousands of Russians on a daily basis.

You also say that you know some girls who get as many 100+ letters a day from Turkish, Italian men? I know one Russian dating site that has just under 3 million registered users. I just looked and at 3:30pm eastern time (Monday), there were 36,730 users currently online. I’m no mathematician, but there must be a lot of horny Turks spending a lot of time to write 100+ letters/day to each of the girls.

I should have posted links to a few of the real Russian dating sites on the internet. Rambler-Знакомства (http://love.rambler.ru) is a larger site that I mentioned above. IMeet.ru (http://www.imeet.ru/) is a smaller site. Yes, like all the sites they are in Russian, but like I mentioned before, with a little guidance and a little practice, you’ll have no trouble becoming a proficient user.

Regards,

Chris

[Doctor_Skank]

Chris99:

Actually we ARE talking about the same thing, normal dating sites. Trust me, I have extensive experience with them... they are a major source from finding my girlfriends... :) I definitely agree with you there in terms of their value. In fact, I am chatting with a couple of girls right now in prep for my trip to Kiev next week.

Perhaps they haven't gotten as much attention as they deserve, perhaps I'd rather not advertise them too prominently... there are enough foreigners in them already.

Getting 100's of "hits" from Turkish and Italian men is not an exaggeration. If a girl, 18-20 years old, puts up a profile on a Friday night or some other time when lots of guys are on line, she'll get dozens of hits within an hour or two... over the course of the weekend hundreds. Hell even I get dozens of hits from girls over the course of a weekend with a "new" profile and I am not really such a great catch... after the profile gets "buried" below the new profiles, the hits decrease to a trickle. I have talked to several girls about the "politics" of these websites and most, especially the sexy blondes, do complain of getting too much attention from foreigners. Some even put in their disclaimer that foreigners shouldn't write them. Others specifically request that young guys don't write and "waste their time". :)

There are at least 5 sites I have found which use the same database and are therefore essentially the same site, for example www.love.mail.ru or www.dating.ru or www.destiny.com.ua or www.tamdam.ru. I can log into any of the sites with this database using a single profile.

The site you mention, www.rambler.ru does in fact use the SAME exact database as the sites I listed above and this database has been mentioned in the forum in some form dozens of times, both in the Russia forum and the Ukraine forum. Not always in detail, but they have been mentioned and discussed often. A brief review of the 2004 and 2005 archived reports turned up these links and I was just browsing without even checking the 2006 posts.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=418793&postcount=923
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=188995&postcount=360
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=241114&postcount=633
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=243618&postcount=646
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=315119&postcount=1147
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=299143&postcount=1003
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=332687&postcount=2
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=345847&postcount=111
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=346264&postcount=112
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=353038&postcount=190
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=382676&postcount=699

Fairly recently it was even mentioned here in the general info section...

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=447284&postcount=311

I recall a few other posts by other guys on the subject in more detail, especially about finding pros on these dating sites. In case you have yet to discover that, many of the girls are pros. Any profile outlined in pink, or any girl writing that she is looking for a sponsor is a pro. The rest generally are just normal girls.

I'm not knocking you, you are absolutely right about the sites and your post is a great summary... but I was just pointing out that we have been discussing these sites off and on for a couple years now.

BTW: as I also discovered, the Forum search function doesnt work worth shit... I had to search "old school", post for post... the search function seemed to miss almsot everything... :(

[Chris 99]

Dr. Swank,

I owe you my apology. You have made your point with the old archives. In all honesty that hour of digging through archives was closer to 20 minutes (not an hour), but its true, the search function isn’t too helpful. There’s obviously lots of good info if you go digging for it.

In regards to the Russian dating sites, you’re right, some of them do share the same database. I typed my username and password from Rambler ( http://love.rambler.ru/) into Destiny ( www.destiny.com.ua) and Tamdam ( www.tamdam.ru) and I was able to log on. Dating.ru ( www.dating.ru) seems to have a different database, as does the one I already mentioned, IMeet.ru ( www.imeet.ru).

Just one more to throw at you, Love.bigmir.net ( http://love.bigmir.net/). This one seems to contain more Ukrainians than anyone else (may be of interest for those going to the Ukraine). It’s also fairly compatible with translation software for windows, which makes surfing the site a lot easier. The others aren’t really compatible.

I’m still not too worried about foreigners swamping these sites. There are so many profiles and I think the girls are smart enough to know the difference between someone who actually has intentions of meeting and those getting off in front of their computer screens. I often wonder why men would still drop big dollars on marriage agencies when these sites are available. Nothing wrong with paying $10 or $15 dollars for an address if your serious about making a trip over there, but the extra detail you can get from the free Russian dating sites is something else. When you find a profile that says the girl likes sex multiple times a day, and details about what gets her off, you know your success rate is going to be fairly good right off the start.

I’ve made a fairly quick transition from Ukraine as I’m now down in Central America. In all honesty, these Latinas don’t measure up to the Russian and Ukrainian girls. I did find a few beautiful Colombian girls (in Panama City). I guess I have to go check out Cartagena, but that’s for a different time and a different part of the forum. I’m rambling so I leave it at that.

Best of luck in the Ukraine,

Chris

[CrystalCowboy]

Hi Guys,

I need your help.

In the internet I got to know a sweet girl from Russia. She is 22, her name is Eva. She was looking for somebody to, have fun and travel". I always dreamed about to have such a playgirl and invite her to some weekendhouse on the seaside in spain to fuck our brains out. It seems that this is excatly what she wants. She told me that she has a boyfriend, but is is not so sexual and on busniesstrips away alot. She is looking for a sexual man to make new hot experiences. Of course I heard all the stories about sexy russian internet-girls which rip off horny westernmen in the internet, because they are naive and think with their dicks. But Eva seems, if she is fake, very very smart. She writes very sexy emails, has a very sweet wrong english, and is planning the vacaction to Spain in October with me now. She seems to be very enthusisatic and flattered. And I think that it would defently be a nice trip for her! ; ) I am a young man and have money to spoil her.

But now it starts: She needs money for the visa. She needs 280 Euros via Western Union to pay her visa-service. The ticket can be paid by me via internet anyway, and she agrees. She only needs help with the visa. She is more likely a fake, but there is a little chance that she is really a wet and curious girl, ready for a nice sex-trip. How can I find out? How can I test her? Are there other ways to pay her visa? Does somebody else had a simiular experience and can share some tricks with me?

Please help!

[Email address deleted by Admin]

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to remove email addresses in the text. Please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. Thanks!

[Dino Jay]

CC, sending money via WU to a person you've never met is most likely to be a rip-off. It happens all the time. When she comes up with all sorts of excuses, forget about her. There's plenty of fish in the (Russian) sea.


Hi Guys,

I need your help.

In the internet I got to know a sweet girl from Russia. She is 22, her name is Eva. She was looking for somebody to, have fun and travel". I always dreamed about to have such a playgirl and invite her to some weekendhouse on the seaside in spain to fuck our brains out. It seems that this is excatly what she wants. She told me that she has a boyfriend, but is is not so sexual and on busniesstrips away alot. She is looking for a sexual man to make new hot experiences. Of course I heard all the stories about sexy russian internet-girls which rip off horny westernmen in the internet, because they are naive and think with their dicks. But Eva seems, if she is fake, very very smart. She writes very sexy emails, has a very sweet wrong english, and is planning the vacaction to Spain in October with me now. She seems to be very enthusisatic and flattered. And I think that it would defently be a nice trip for her! ; ) I am a young man and have money to spoil her.

But now it starts: She needs money for the visa. She needs 280 Euros via Western Union to pay her visa-service. The ticket can be paid by me via internet anyway, and she agrees. She only needs help with the visa. She is more likely a fake, but there is a little chance that she is really a wet and curious girl, ready for a nice sex-trip. How can I find out? How can I test her? Are there other ways to pay her visa? Does somebody else had a simiular experience and can share some tricks with me?

Please help!

[Email address deleted by Admin]

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to remove email addresses in the text. Please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. Thanks!

[Helena Moscow]

But now it starts: She needs money for the visa. She needs 280 Euros via Western Union to pay her visa-service. The ticket can be paid by me via internet anyway, and she agrees. She only needs help with the visa. She is more likely a fake, but there is a little chance that she is really a wet and curious girl, ready for a nice sex-trip. How can I find out? How can I test her? Are there other ways to pay her visa? Does somebody else had a simiular experience and can share some tricks with me?

Please help!

size]

You can't find out, friend. Can just risk with 280euros. What she asks is reasonable. To arrange visa she has to buy a tour, have a private invitation from Spain or pay to some agency which can arrange a false invitation for some money (probably it really costs 280euros). Plus to this a lot of papers prooving her decent income in Russia, insurance and so on. None can guarantee her a visa, she may get a refusal, so she can always have an excuse not to appear. She can be a real decent girl, or a scam - nobody knows. If your money wasted, you can't do anything. So it's up to you to decide. What about planning holidays in Moscow?

[Eros74]

I agree with Stravinsky, if she wants you, she will find money, at least 280 euro are not...so much money also in russia and not so difficult to find. (surely her boyfriend will pay her without problem..).

I guess she is scam and if you will tell her you will pay her travel once you meet her, she suddendly will disappear...

I think you can test her easily opening new address e mail and writing her, I think she will write to the "new" CC the same letters she wrote you before...

I have actually the same problem: I am going to Odessa and girl from Nikolaev told me that will be very happy to come to me to Odessa,but she needs money for travel. She asked me 20 euro...yes I know what are you all thinking about, 20 euro is nothing, but this is the point, if she cannot find some friend who rent her 20 euro for few days, if she doesn't have 20 euro, it means for 99,99% she will never come!!!

And do not forget that most of men will send her 20 euro IMMEDIATELY and without problem, so 20 euro for all the men that she is writing can be enough money in Ukraina.

Even if she has about 40 fotos in her profile, so I believe she is real, I think she is nothing more than another fuc***g Ukranian scammer...

But however I will be very interested to know the opinion of others members.

Poka

[Helena Moscow]

I guess she is scam and if you will tell her you will pay her travel once you meet her, she suddendly will disappear...

I think you can test her easily opening new address e mail and writing her, I think she will write to the "new" CC the same letters she wrote you before...



She is not 100% scam. She can be normal. For ex. when my clients invite me somewhere out of Russia, they also have to send money by Western Union. And I always appear. But I'll never go if I have to risk with my own money, because who knows, may be a guy is just making a joke. 280euros is not a big deal in Moscow, but still, noone wants to loose.

I think testing by other addresses is guite useless. She may tell everybody the same - her story, plan to go to Spain, need of 280euros for visa - but it doesn't proove that she is a scam and will not appear after receiving the money.

[Safariman]

Eva is standing under an Oleander, too big to be a potted version of the species. This plant grows extensively in the mediterranean so ask her where the picture was taken: the Moscow botanical garden greenhouse because she loves hot temperatures or somewhere in the mediterranean. If the answer is the last she might have done this before and knows how to get a visa and how to use guys to get her there. Or a black sea resort: I would prefer to meet her there: definitely cheaper than Spain, more interesting and plenty "back up" if things don't work out! Good luck in taking your pick.

[Toscana]

http://agencyscams.com/

Usually agency scams, but the notorious independent scammers also appear here eventually.

I generally agree with Helena Moscow. It does not have to be a scam at all. I have found great girls this way. You have to trust your instincts at the end of the day. But if the email exchanges go on for a long while, and are not constantly about money, then it could well be that the girl is genuine. I have sent money, and never made a mistake. But it seems to be that you could afford a loss anyway.

If she is from Moscow or St. Pete, then it is fair to say that she should be able to drum up the Euros. If she is from outside the big cities, EUR 280 are probably way beyond her means. Way beyond. Think of her risk, if you don't turn up.

What disturbs me a little is that she has a boyfriend. It is possible that they are in this together. Read the emails again. Especially the sexy ones. Are they sexy ones which would be written by a woman? Ones that go on about just wanting my big horny dick ramming up in her dripping wet etc. etc. are usually written by men, who are letting their (male) fantasies loose. Women write differently.

Good luck if you go for it. Of course, all this doesn't mean that she's any good at sex.. LOL

[George Assaii]

Sirs, I am sorry to ask such a question here; when you are travelling to Russia, particularly to St. Petersburg, how do you deal with the hotels? Due to the nature of my work, it is always short-term stay, such as 3-4 days.

To obtain the Visa from Russian Embassy, we need to have the invitation (reservation confirmation) from the hotel, and seems such hotels charges 200 USD or more per night. My colleague were charged 400USD. In Germany, can you think how gorgeous it could be!

Such hotels would have Consierge, and would be difficult to bring the girls from outside.

Is it possible to make the reservation with expensive hotels, and immediately after the entry, cancels the hotel reservation to make inexpensive apartment, which would grant more freedome bringing the friends?

Or do you think it is still risky? I once had burglary in Polish appartment when I was in Biz trip. Fortunately all the equipments are in the office. Being in Russia, maybe it is not advisable?

Please advise.

GA

[CrystalCowboy]

http://agencyscams.com/

Usually agency scams, but the notorious independent scammers also appear here eventually.

I generally agree with Helena Moscow. It does not have to be a scam at all. I have found great girls this way. You have to trust your instincts at the end of the day. But if the email exchanges go on for a long while, and are not constantly about money, then it could well be that the girl is genuine. I have sent money, and never made a mistake. But it seems to be that you could afford a loss anyway.

If she is from Moscow or St. Pete, then it is fair to say that she should be able to drum up the Euros. If she is from outside the big cities, EUR 280 are probably way beyond her means. Way beyond. Think of her risk, if you don't turn up.

What disturbs me a little is that she has a boyfriend. It is possible that they are in this together. Read the emails again. Especially the sexy ones. Are they sexy ones which would be written by a woman? Ones that go on about just wanting my big horny dick ramming up in her dripping wet etc. etc. are usually written by men, who are letting their (male) fantasies loose. Women write differently.

Good luck if you go for it. Of course, all this doesn't mean that she's any good at sex.. LOLYeah, you are very right. But tell me, is this written by her or by a man? it sounds like a sweet girls fantasy, but a hot one. what do you think? here also an other picture of her:

"But, you are very sexual, that I very much want to meet you. I want to embody my sexual imaginations in a reality + Lovely, close eyes and present +. We drink champagne +. We dance +.. One your hand compresses my breast, other hand holds mine elastic arse. From it desire mine even more strongly amplifies, and we begin kiss. Then you will press me to a wall, will move apart to me legs, by hands will take mine ass and take close to itself. Mine kiss will be passionate, I to lick your lips, suck yours tongue. You take off quickly from me the cowards, and hands yours strong lower(omit) me to your cock. I open zip get yours trousers, yours penis and I begin it(him) to lick, as ice-cream. Your cock such sweet, that from pleasure I begin to groan, you see, how I suck yours penis, as your cock fuck me in a mouth. Hands yours hold my head and you shake in a step to my movements. Yours penis becomes ever more and more. Then I become to you by back, by hands I keep about a wall and your large finger enters into mine wet hole by love. Other hand yours caress mine nipples. You feel all secret corners by mine hole. But pussycat mine wants the cock. You thrust in mine hole penis and fuck me all more strongly and more strongly. I shout from pleasure. You close to me a mouth by a hand, that us nobody has heard. When your volcano is ready to escape outside, I quickly take your cock in a mouth and I drink all your love juices. Yours milk very tasty. I kiss yours penis. We, shall put on both to go to drink and to have fun further. At me the head from these ideas has begun to spin.

Mine sexual secret favourite, I dream of meeting with you. I wait for the answer from you with impatience.

Very intimate kisses. Yours pussycat Eva"

[Eros74]

CC for me is scam 110%!!!!

Seriously you thought woman you never met write about your dick so openly??? Yes...may be after one month of daily chatting many many hours every day...may be...

"he" already sent this mail milion times,just my opinion and he is the oldest kind of scam,so easy to discover.

[Helena Moscow]

"But, you are very sexual, that I very much want to meet you. I want to embody my sexual imaginations in a reality + Lovely, close eyes and present +. We drink champagne +. We dance +.. One your hand compresses my breast, other hand holds mine elastic arse. From it desire mine even more strongly amplifies, and we begin kiss. Then you will press me to a wall, will move apart to me legs, by hands will take mine ass and take close to itself. Mine kiss will be passionate, I to lick your lips, suck yours tongue. You take off quickly from me the cowards, and hands yours strong lower(omit) me to your cock. I open zip get yours trousers, yours penis and I begin it(him) to lick, as ice-cream. Your cock such sweet, that from pleasure I begin to groan, you see, how I suck yours penis, as your cock fuck me in a mouth. Hands yours hold my head and you shake in a step to my movements. Yours penis becomes ever more and more. Then I become to you by back, by hands I keep about a wall and your large finger enters into mine wet hole by love. Other hand yours caress mine nipples. You feel all secret corners by mine hole. But pussycat mine wants the cock. You thrust in mine hole penis and fuck me all more strongly and more strongly. I shout from pleasure. You close to me a mouth by a hand, that us nobody has heard. When your volcano is ready to escape outside, I quickly take your cock in a mouth and I drink all your love juices. Yours milk very tasty. I kiss yours penis. We, shall put on both to go to drink and to have fun further. At me the head from these ideas has begun to spin.

Mine sexual secret favourite, I dream of meeting with you. I wait for the answer from you with impatience.

Very intimate kisses. Yours pussycat Eva"


This wasn't written by a woman.

[Toscana]

Many other genuinely good fish in the pond........

You were wise to discuss on the forum. Put the suncream away.

[It Travel]

It's obviously fake 100%, text and pics...

IT


PS It's full of fakes in those sites...

[Tits_Lover]

Hi guys,

does anyone knows about this URL ?
http://www.interlingvo.com
Is it a scamm ? Did someone tried ???
THX
TL

[Guzco]

Hi guys,

Does anyone knows about this URL?

http://www.interlingvo.com

Is it a scamm ? Did someone tried?

Thanks,

TLRegistered to it due to some (very likely fake) interest of a girl, but without paying you do not get far. Sounds like a scam to me, better forget it.

[Toscana]

Actually I do not think it is a scam.

I have used it, although I must admit that I have never got round to meeting anyone through it. (This is a pity as there was a really hot pair of naked twins advertising about three months back who were keen to meet, so that I could "learn Russian" from them. Who says nothing happens in Saratov? LOL.)

It is useful if you want to communicate with girls (or others in fact) who are not confident in English or other languages. I contacted girls and my letters were translated for a small fee into Russian, and I always got an answer. I can understand Russian well, so I did not have to pay for the replies to be translated as well.

Basically it seems to me to be a translating service. You have to make your own decisions of course as to whether there is a scammer behind the advert you are looking at.

[Bart9000]

"Zdrofswiesay" all,

I'm sure that some of you know me from the American Women board.

I'm up for a a job in Moscow....pay is $14 an hour for 27 hours per week. I'm sure I could get extra work tutoring or something but not counting on that.

My question is: Is this enough to live comfortably on? After a modest but liveable apartment or room, tram pass, moderate internet usage and food (eating with the locals), will I have enough left to go out on the weekends, and maybe travel a bit. I understand that rail travel costs next to nothing in the Russian Federation.....passage from Moscow to St.Petersburg is like $10.00

B9k

[Doctor_Skank]

B9K:

Honestly speaking, I doubt you can live even moderately well on that.

A friend of mine just returned from Moscow having lived there for about 10 years. He lived "local" in almost every way, riding the metro to work, shopping at normal stores and living in an apartment in Soviet-style high-rise about 1 hour out of town by bus/metro.

According to him, you can expect the following costs:

1-room apartment outside of city in the distant suburbs ranges from $500-$1500/month. $500 will be a "very Russian" apartment in which you may even be sharing bathroom etc. with the rest of the "commune." $1200 is a fairly comfortable place.

A monthly metro ticket costs about $40-60 depending on your status (student/retired/military etc.) A single trip on the metro already costs 50 cents.

Minimum food costs cooking at home about $200/month.

According to this calculation and excluding any sort of entertainment, you are already at $750/month for bare minimum living. A more realistic scenario of average living standard, still well below what you'd have in the west, would be about $1000/month.

I personally never have lived in Russia for a long period of time, but have been to plenty of private homes and apartments... you can live there in terms of comfort and safety, it isnt the end of the world. Plenty of expats do live "local". But any semblance of Western comfort will blow your $1500 budget.

By the way, travel on a moderately fast train from Moscow to St.Pete is about $70 one way. The quoted $10 price seems unrealistic, even for a bus.

Perhaps our resident female posters Victoria or Helena can add more "local" insight on the subject.

I think you could survive on $1500, but if you want to have any fun or enjoy life there, you'll need more income.

[Helena Moscow]

Skank is right 100%. Nothing more to add. To cover your basic expences in Moscow you need 1500$, the rest goes extra. Less than 2000$ per month is not fun here, unless you are a cheerful student who doesn't care for comfort.

[Bart9000]

This deal isn't looking so hot.....I'm told by another source that a "Russian price" (150-300) can be arranged on an apartment by the locals ....if they could set me up like that, I would be in good shape otherwise, I'll probably pass.....


Thanks Again,

B9k

[Doctor_Skank]

B9K:

If they are suggesting that there are cheaper "Russian prices" vs. more expensive "foreigner prices" for mid to lower level apartments in Moscow, then they are either completely mistaken, pulling your leg or trying to set you up in some kind of dorm room or communal facility.

You couldn't get single room apartments for $150-300 even 5 years ago. One of my ex's lived in a nice 2 room "middle class" apartment in a Soviet high-rise near one of the last metro stations in southeastern Moscow, about 45 minutes from the center, and was paying $700 5 years ago. The price has since more than doubled.

Prices may go down again in Moscow some day, but right now demand exceeds supply, so prices are inflated.

A lot of employers who bring in workers from the regions end up putting their people in old Soviet hotels since it is cheaper than putting them into apartments. They live like rats.

[Member #4378]

This deal isn't looking so hot.....I'm told by another source that a "Russian price" (150-300) can be arranged on an apartment by the locals ....if they could set me up like that, I would be in good shape otherwise, I'll probably pass.....

Thanks Again,

B9kWell, actually, it is possible. E.g., if someone is our of country for somewhat extended period of time and does not want to rent it through an agency but rather prefer to have somebody (trustful person) to stay in his/her furnished apartment and look after it. It has happened to me. If this is the case, mongering or partying in the apartment should be avoided.

[Helena Moscow]

I'm told by another source that a "Russian price" (150-300) can be arranged on an apartment by the locals ....if they could set me up like that, I would be in good shape otherwise, I'll probably pass.....


Thanks Again,

B9k

300$ for apartment - no chance even in the furthest suburbs. 20-30 minutes from the city center start from 700$, within the Garden Ring - 1000 and more. Plus you'll have to pay a monthly rent to realtor (a standard fee). Plus they can make a condition to prepay for several months and put something like 500$ or more on a deposit in case you disappear and leave unpaid telephone bills. So called "russian style" apartments look as if someone dropped there a bomb before lending. But decent ones are really expensive. Plus Moscow is full of seductions - it's a crazy place. You will want to try everything, be everywhere and can't avoid comparing yourself with the real rich who show off on every corner.

[Doctor_Skank]

B9K:

As Victoria said, it's possible that they might kick the person living in the apartment out for awhile and you can stay there for fairly cheap. I used this "service" before in St.Petersburg, where they kicked the old babushka living there out and sent her to the country (dacha) for a week while I stayed there. babushka got a bit of money of course, which maybe was a lot for her... who knows.

Also had this with an apartment agency in Moscow 4 years ago, which has since gone bankrupt, who put me up in a flat and sent the family living there to live with relatives while I was there. It was kind of awkward, since the family was just leaving with their packed things as I arrived with my suitcase... I actually felt kind of bad, but nobody really looked unhappy, so I guess it is ok. :)

There are a lot of elderly people in Moscow who live in flats they have been in for decades and actually own, flats that are now worth small fortunes as real estate. Some of the elderly sell the flats off and move to the country or another area... and are usually ripped off by the person who buys the flat for a low price and resells it for a much higher one... whereas others just stay in the building until they die... provided their children or grandchildren don't conveniently "relocate" them and occupy the flat themselves. Curiously you'll find some centrally located buildings where million dollar luxury flats are in the same building as aging decrepit flats being occupied by pensioners who get $150 a month retirement and spend their days selling plastic bags, socks, flowers or trinkets in the metro. It's one of the main reasons why Russian residential buildings can look so horrible from the outside and some individual apartments actually quite nice on the inside... before any renovation is done to the building itself or in the public areas, pretty much everybody has to agree to participate in covering the costs. Since many of the buildings residents are poor pensioners and can't/don't want to pay, nothing is done.

Still, I think this is a pretty hokey arrangement and I suggest you find out as much as you can before entering into this kind of arrangement before arrival. Russian apartment services AND employers are pretty ruthless when it comes to breaking promises, suspending customer service and leaving their customers/staff to fend for themselves. Perhaps your people can arrange it, but in my book it is a BIG "?" considering the high demand for any living space anywhere near the rough center of Moscow.

[Bart9000]

It actually became a moot point....I wasn't offered the job.


Still, I think that this is "doable"....it might require having 2 25 hour a week jobs, but it looks like an opportunity to make some money and have a good life.

B9k

[Doctor_Skank]

b9k:

just in case you are still wondering, here's an interesting article on the subject from exile magazine:

slaves of the sadovoe koltso-by jake rudnitsky

"renters beware! moscow's landlords are finally starting to wake up to the fact that the capital's real estate market is going berserk.

when alan moved to moscow last october, he made a deal with the devil. he might have thought she was a babushka at the time, but by now he knows better. the owner of the apartment was the grandmother of a good friend and, if he would share the place for the few days a month that she was in moscow, he'd get the apartment at a way-below-market rate. the location at krasnye vorota couldn't be beat, and he decided what the hell. it was a sweet deal for a guy who makes a living teaching english and russian and otherwise couldn't afford to live in the center. people have done worse for a $500 monthly rent.

everything worked out fine for the first couple of months -- he and the babushka had a close relationship, helped by the fact that their lives didn't intersect too often. but then she had to go and die on him. "i was getting a friend's rate at the beginning," he told me. "and then she died."


to say the babushka died doesn't mean that she left him. anyone who's ever been in an old russian's apartment knows exactly what the level of remont in alan's place was: zero. everything from the red carpets on the wall to the dozens of little bluish teacups rep001tered around scream "survived the great patriotic war." the toilet fixtures date back to the early brezhnev era. when digging around in a desperate attempt to find storage space, he uncovered everything from a stockpile of three-quarters empty shampoo bottles, bristlebare toothbrushes and expired medicine to three vintage soviet irons and a collection of mass-produced icons. a scavenger would've had trouble finding something of value.

the babushka, who was more of a packrat than most, had even held onto all her husband's things after he died five years ago. and it's not like they were squired away in a skaf somewhere. every time alan took a dump, he found himself staring at a worn polyester suit of the husband's that was hung on the bathroom door. every drawer contained some memento of the dead couple, housing a collection of ties from the 60s or canned meat dating back to perestroika. "my girlfriend's moved in and she's been reduced to living out of a collection of plastic bags we keep under the table," alan said. that's how little room there is.

at least the babushka's daughter kept the so-called "friend's rate" with him for a bit, with the understanding that family members could sleep in the kitchen whenever they were in town. it got so that a constant stream of third cousins (the word for which, in russian, is the same as brothers and sisters) were parading through the apartment. it was so bad that alan didn't mind when they decided to jack up the rent, since it meant he could have his apartment to himself.


at the beginning of the summer, after he'd already paid for the next month's rent, a newly hired apartment manager told him he hadn't paid enough. this woman, who herself is on the wrong side of 70, jacked up the rent by nearly 50%. the added cost didn't mean that he was free to purge the apartment of its mothballs, though. "the family's been by a few times and every time i naively expect them to toss all the junk," he said. "but, what am i going to say? take your dead mother's stuff and shove it?"

since the owners are friends who are supposedly giving him a deal, he can't even bolt the door when the crazed apartment manager rings the buzzer around three times a month. if her intruding wasn't bad enough, the old hag goes out of her way every time she sees alan to say how the place is still under priced. "i'm pretty sure that they're just waiting to save up enough to remont the place and kick me out," he said. they've already installed new windows, and eviction can't be far behind.


when he does get kicked out, he'll become the perfect microcosm of the transformation that moscow's rental market is undergoing. renting here used to be about personal relationships and getting good deals from acquaintances, but it's now moving unavoidably towards the much crueler logic of the market. and when that transformation is complete, it's low-budget expats who stand the most to lose.

* * *

while alan's story might be extreme, rising rents is something you hear talk about all around town. rents are going up, properties are getting renovated, and expats are getting nervous. those of us at the bottom of the pay scale are confronted with the possibility that staying in moscow might mean moving to an apartment five trolley stops away from babushkinskaya.


but it's not just the english teachers and copy editors that are sweating. one equity trader with an apartment near ostozhenko told me that his landlord recently announced that his rent was jumping by 90%, from $1000 to $1900. that happened after more than two years without an increase. location aside, the apartment's in a typical 9-story soviet panelka. it's got a decent remont, but by no means evro-standard.

another trader, tim wiswel from ufg, also got threatened with a 50% price increase. with his lease set to expire in a month, his landlord told him his 60 sq. meter place on kutuzovsky was going up to $1500 a month. "there's not much to the story," he said. "and i did have pretty cheap rent for three years."

every year the landlord had tried to raise the rent and tim called his bluff. only this time, he wasn't bluffing. tim's since moved to a new pad that he found through an agency. "i'm paying a bit more, but it's a nicer place," he said. "of course, now that i've been here a week, i'm starting to see just how cosmetic the renovation really was."

that's one area where the rental market's not conforming to the market. russians are masters of the potemkin remont that looks good at first, until you notice that the poorly glued-on plastic paneling is covering structural rot. and it seems doubtful that higher rents will eliminate the risk of ending up with some psycho khoziaka that rifles through your boxers drawer when you're at work. those are both reasons expats tend to stick with a place once they've found one to their liking. but the real reason expats are so sedentary is that for a long time rent prices seemed stable.


it used to seem like everyone who'd been in russia long enough had a great deal on their apartments. the longer they'd been around, the lower the rent, as rents went only up when someone moved out. this was especially the case for those willing to put up with living in soviet apartments. the realtor's mantra "location, location, location" just didn't apply to life in moscow. until now.

according to maxim mokeyev of evans property services, rental rates are up 30% this year alone. in other words, tim and alan's increases aren't even unusual. "theoretically, you can still find a small place inside the garden ring for $1500-$2000," he said. "the real premium's getting paid by people looking for bigger places."

part of the problem is that so few people rent. the market's small enough to get totally distorted. or at least it used to be. it was always amazing the difference between getting an apartment from an agency or via acquaintances. if you were referred to your landlord by a friend, you'd not only save on the realtor fee, but get much more bang for your buck. but with the wave of rent hikes sweeping the city, that's about to change.

when rents go up, it's expats that get screwed, as expats are still by far the most likely to rent. and since every russian oao looking for a london ipo needs a few westerners on the board for window dressing, prices for premium places are going through the roof. "there's a surge in expatriate executive personnel," mokeyev said. "high-end places over 110 meters are going for $15,000 a month."

of course, at those prices, it's always the corporation that's forking the cash over. but at smaller operations, like the exile, employees are starting to feel the pinch.


yasha lives out by alekseevskaya in another vintage soviet place, complete with floorboards painted shit brown and the collected works of lenin. he too moved into an apartment vacated by a recently deceased babushka. her grave was so fresh that he had to wait a few weeks before moving in order to allow the traditional 40 days to elapse. his old contract just expired, when he got the unpleasant news. even though he's only been there for six months and the windows open up onto a superhighway, the landlord is looking to jack the price up from $700 to $900. that's almost a 30% increase in just six months.

that's why all you poor ex-holes better watch out. there's been enough attention in the media about moscow's real estate boom that even the most sovok landlord's starting to dream of cashing in. i've heard another theory -- by another expat that was recently victimized by a hike in his rent -- that landlords are simply passing on the costs of inflation to their tenants. but that's not enough to account for the 30% rises, because even though prices on everything from sugar to gas are surging, the consumer price index is only up 7.1% this year.

on the other hand, at least rents haven't been keeping pace with the price of buying real estate. while mokeyev says they're somewhat linked, in that it becomes less attractive to rent when you can make such sick money selling, the two markets are quite distinct. while rental rates rising 30% in a year sucks, it's nothing like the horror stories people tell about trying to buy places. tim told me about one of his friends who made a bid on friday and, when he arrived with the cash on monday, the price had gone up 30%. buying real estate in moscow really is as expensive as anywhere on earth, whereas rents haven't made it there yet.

instead, what's probably happening is that rents are going up as part of an overall asset price boom. the real question expats are going to have to ask themselves is, if prices keep soaring like this, is it worth staying? so long as asset prices keep booming and the easy money keeps circulating, the answer will probably be "yes." but as the laws of the market already showed in the last crazy boom from 1996-8, what goes up must come down. and the higher it rises, the harder the crash."

[Traveller22]

I am wondering what is the best way to approach dyevs with a reasonable rate of efficiency. It is now so hard in the west. I know by experience that Russian women are more approachable but anyway I still feel a big fear of rejection in Russian speaking countries also. So even there I almost always don’t use the numerous opportunities to meet unknown beauties.

What are your favourite pick-up lines? Do you show your interest in them directly or indirectly? Your favourite places to approach; the street, malls, bars? Do you approach during day time too? How do you deal with rejection?

Many guys on this forum (like doctor Skank especially) are quite successful with Russian girls. It would be great to benefit from their advices on this matter!

[Doctor_Skank]

Traveller22:

First you should define what you want and "who" you are in their eyes.

Do you want to meet girls for a LTR and bring them back to the US (or Europe etc.)?

Do you want to meet a few girls for "free" sex during a vacation in Russia?

How much time will you spend in Russia? Do you live there, or do you go there often?

Before offering any advice, these are important questions to set the parameters.

Dealing with rejection:
I don't care how often it happens, I still feel personally insulted when rejected. But that just comes with the territory... you recover quickly... as soon as you meet the next girl that catches your eye. Don't dwell on any one girl, if she rejects you, write her off and never think about her again. Chasing girls really doesnt work in my experience. It makes you look pathetic.

What are your favourite pick-up lines:
I don't have a standard line. I tend to find that if she likes you, the most important thing is to get into any kind of conversation. One line that is really stupid but has worked for me is to see a girl I like and walk up to her with a big smile on my face and say "Hi Masha! How are you?" and as soon as she gives me the confused look, I apologize (sometimes in Russian, sometimes English) for mixing her up with someone else. Quite often a spontaneous conversation will ensue and very often I'll notice her paying attention to me later in the night... getting "on her radar" is important. Once the ice is broken, everything is possible. And about 10% of the time, her name actually IS Masha... :)

Your favourite places to approach; the street, malls, bars?
Bars, clubs, internet.

Do you approach during day time too?
I usually am working during the day, but as I always say, there is no wrong place and no wrong time to meet girls. Sometimes they feel more open during the day, sometimes they are very cautious when spoken to by a stranger. Generally speaking, the key is communication.... in every sense of the word.

As for my success with women, I have great successes and horrible failures... but adore playing the game.

[Traveller22]

Many thanks for your answer Doc.
I have already worked 2 years in Minsk, Belarus. Most of the girls I met there was by acquaintances. But it was frustrating to see all those stunners everywhere without daring approaching any. I tried very rarely without a lot of effectiveness because I was to nervous each time. Anyway I know that Dyevs are much more open to the possibility to meet unknown men everywhere. It is normal here. Russian men are not afraid to approach like their western counterparts.
I will now work one year in Smolensk. One of my aim is to approach the girls I really like in any kind of situation (I speak Russian). But it is quite difficult for me as in my country, Switzerland, it has a very bad connotation to approach random girls; probably even more than in other western countries.
Anyway after Minsk I must admit that Swiss girls don't interest me any more so it is not a problem in my home town as I even don't want to try. In Russia it will be a different story of course. Russian girls are much, much more attractive! The difference is truly amazing.
By the way I found your pick-up line excellent!!:-))

[Doctor_Skank]

A year in Smolensk should yield you plenty of pussy if you play your cards right... or even if you play your cards at all! You will have to approach women and it really isnt that hard... the worst that can happen is rejection. Since you will have plenty of time and there is no rush, try to get a coffee or tea date and during or after the date try to make some physical contact, whether hand-holding or a kiss. If you get that far, sex is really not far away.

Not only are Russian men not afraid to approach girls, ANY men who are successful with women are not afraid to approach them. Getting rejected is demoralizing but you shouldnt take it too personal... I know it is hard, but that's part of the deal when trying to get laid. Although you may meet the occasional girl who really is just curious about talking to a foreigner and wants nothing else except conversation, usually in places like Smolensk where a foreigner will be a rarity just getting a girl to go out to dinner with you should pretty much be half the battle in terms of getting her into bed.

Think about what is going on in her mind. If she agrees to meet a stranger on a date, she knows that you have interest in her. Her agreeing to meet you signifies her interest. With those kind of odds, you should do well. I doubt you'll find the kind of "serial daters" in Smolensk that you find in Kiev, Odessa or Moscow... in Smolensk, a date is a significant signal.

You also must make sure that you get farther with every date in terms of contact and affection. She must understand that you want her. If I don't get at least hand-holding and a good night kiss on date 1, I pretty much write the girl off.

To reverse the famous adage and apply it to dating:

"Where there is no smoke, there is no fire."

You want smoke and fire.

If there is no sexual chemistry on date 1, it probably won't develop by date 2. You don't have to get far on date1, you just need to make sure she understands that you don't just want to be her friend, you want to fuck her.

If she puts out a good night kiss on date1 and agrees to meet you again, she has agreed to fuck you, sooner or later. Usually sooner. :)

[Traveller22]

Respect Doc!
I will do my best to apply your excellent advices.
One last question though.
Do you approach girls in your country? If yes, do you do it the same way as in Russia or do you have a specific attitude with Russian girls?
That is my main problem. Although I am extremely attracted by the dyevs (and almost only by them by the way) and I know that most of them like to be approached, I have the same passivity here than in Switzerland. I just can't manage to change overnight.

[Doctor_Skank]

Trav22:

I generally approach women with more or less the same style I developed dating Russian girls and have found that it works well almost everywhere, but will admit that two things happened after I started going for Russian (or Slavic) women:

1) I became more forward with non-Slavic women as well, generally with positive results.

I think this was a subconscious thing. Most women I meet in the US or Europe simply don't compare with the girls I have had in Russia in terms of my preferences, so it's like I have this odd air of superiority about me when meeting other women. I have no fear. Its ridiculous, because I am often not the kind of guy these girls would go for, but they are fascinated by the confidence and it often works. And I always know that even if I get rejected, at the end of the day I still have a harem of Russian girls to go back to, so I am relaxed. Girls are drawn to relaxed confidence.... especially when they can't figure out where it comes from.

2) I became less interested in non-Russian white women.

I simply am not interested in most girls I meet. There are certain types of girl I go for and they are more predominant in EE than in Europe or America. Sure there are great girls in Europe and America too, but I still don't feel the kind of urge with most of them as I do with Slavic women.

So I would say that EE was my training ground for dealing with women...

I also would say that screwing pros helped my confidence as well. I've fucked so many pussies and sucked so many tits that when meeting a new girl, she definitely can't hold me hostage with her sex.

Your passiveness will kill your chances with girls in Russia, they simply don't understand men that don't try to get what they want. You have to get past that hurdle.

[Traveller22]

It is so true that Russian girls can't understand men who don't even try to approach them and show their intentions.
Your help and advices are very useful Doc. I will try to use them effectively.
Thanks again and be well!

[Helena Moscow]

[QUOTE=Traveller22]It is so true that Russian girls can't understand men who don't even try to approach them and show their intentions.
[QUOTE]

This is true. We need intentions to be shown clearly and sometimes forsful (not in a criminal way, though =)). But there is just one thing with which I can't completely agree with Doc. This is if you don't get "smoke" during 1-st date there may be never positive result. It is true sometimes, but not always. In Russia we really like men to initiate relationships and in the normal life we can pretend cold for a very long time, tease and torture men and see how they proove their intensions by action. If a man turns out fast, we deside that his desire was not strong enough, so the guy is not worthy enough for us ;), but if he doesn't give up and tries to deserve us by doing some kind and useful actions, he can be approved after a while. Especially long we "marinade" guys we really like and want to keep longer. But, of course, if you are a tourist or expart and your time is short, this way may not suit you. Than fast dates will be more successful and you can get yours by amount. The more you shoot, the more goals you hit.

[Dark Vadeur]

A mix of copy/paste, automatic translation and plagiarism. Better read the original version.
http://www.inter-mariage.com/en/phtm/myths.php
http://www.inter-mariage.com/fr/phtm/savoir.php
http://www.ragazzerusse.org/f_miti.html

Even better : read serious mongers REAL experiences.

[Prosal]

I plan to go to Russia next winter for 6 weeks and follow Doctor Skank advices.

My personnal taste is essentially chasing regular pussy in undervisited mid-sized cities (and anyway my budget will not allow me to have a real good time in Moscow), so I plan to spend the whole stay in Samara with side-trips to Kazan and maybe Saratov. The Lufthansa direct flight to Samara is cheap, at 880 € from any european city.

Does anybody knows if there's internet sites for short-time apartments rentals in Samara and Kazan ?

Also is a budget of 1000/1200 € month enought for a decent accommodation (studio) ?

Thanks in advance.

[Cool Morris]

There are some very good conversations about marrying a Russian girl.

What if a person was interested in having a marriage contract, where it would be exchange of US citizenship/papers for 2-3 years of sex? How likely it is to find this arrangement in Russia?

It seems that the benefit to this arrangement are 2 fold:

1. Right off the bat, everyone knows the end of the marriage. So there is no need to lie or pretend. It seems like many men in US are devestated when their "love" says adios after she gets her green card.

2. For the woman, she gets taken care of 2-3 years financially, and at the end walks with a green card and she can do whatever she wants.

Now

How logical would this arrangement be to a Russian Women? How hard would it be to find one.

As an aside, often times I meet lots of Russian girls at strip clubs who are looking to marry someone for papers, but they are more likely to offer money than sex. I don't want that. Any suggestions? Do you know of anyone who did this and how did it work out?

[Helena Moscow]

There are some very good conversations about marrying a Russian girl.

What if a person was interested in having a marriage contract, where it would be exchange of US citizenship/papers for 2-3 years of sex? How likely it is to find this arrangement in Russia?

It seems that the benefit to this arrangement are 2 fold:

1. Right off the bat, everyone knows the end of the marriage. So there is no need to lie or pretend. It seems like many men in US are devestated when their "love" says adios after she gets her green card.

2. For the woman, she gets taken care of 2-3 years financially, and at the end walks with a green card and she can do whatever she wants.

Now

How logical would this arrangement be to a Russian Women? How hard would it be to find one.

As an aside, often times I meet lots of Russian girls at strip clubs who are looking to marry someone for papers, but they are more likely to offer money than sex. I don't want that. Any suggestions? Do you know of anyone who did this and how did it work out?


2-3 years is not enough for american citizenship. 5-6 years sounds more sensible. I'd make such a contract it was really well worked out by both sides. But the point is that if the "husband" is ugly, these years will seem too long, and if he is OK, divorse can be too hard ;).

[Cool Morris]

2-3 years is not enough for american citizenship. 5-6 years sounds more sensible. I'd make such a contract it was really well worked out by both sides. But the point is that if the "husband" is ugly, these years will seem too long, and if he is OK, divorse can be too hard ;).Hahaha

What if we say the husband is a tall, good looking well to do guy, and the only reason why he wants this is because he is so busy he doesn't have time to chase women, and would rather have one at home waiting for him when he gets back (of course, she is no slave, she can do whatever she wants in the meantime).

I was under the impression that a green card is obtained in 2-3 years. Perhaps I was wrong. If anyone else can add light to this, it would be great.

[Bez Bezarra]

I plan to go in winter for 6 weeks to Samara .

Does anybody know for apartments is a budget of
1000/1200 € month enough for decent accommodation ?



In winter, you better take the best flat anyone offers you,
or you'll be cold, miserable, without hot water or no water,
bored out of your skull, and sleep depraved.

Hope that you'll be lucky and get a flat that's just been re-done,
new furniture/bed and with everything working plus SAT-TV, dvd,
spa, etc.

But for that, you'll pay at least $80 a day. Its still 100% better
than a hotel that would cost twice as much and offer 90% less.

Having those comforts will also warm up the dyevs so they'll
be grateful to stay all night.

[Stravinsky]

CM,

Any contract between an American citizen and a foreign citizen to buy a green card, would, of course, be illegal. It would have no force or effect in the U.S. You couldn't take it to court and say, "Well, your honor, she promised to fuck me for 3 years if I got her a green card."

I have known American men who were paid by foreign women for marriage with the specific purpose of obtaining U.S. citizenship. I've also known gay men, who paid a foreign woman to marry them for the purpose of providing social cover. Probably doesn't happen too much any more.

But it's strictly a verbal understanding between the parties, and is only as good as the character and intentions of the people involved.

From the time a foreign citizen arrives in this country, assuming that they are eligible for a green card, it takes about a year to actually have the card issued. You then must remain married for 3 years before you can apply for citizenship, assuming that your spouse is willing to support your application. After 5 years as a permanent resident, you can apply for citizenship on your own, without a marriage.

Figure on at least 5 years, with a marriage.

Stravinsky

[Helena Moscow]

To Cool Morris:

“What if we say the husband is a tall, good looking well to do guy, and the only reason why he wants this is because he is so busy he doesn't have time to chase women” – You advertise yourself really well, I wonder why women don’t chase you themselves ;)))))) By the way I still can’t understand, why you plan to divorce after several years. For what purpose? Is marriage works for several years there is a good chance that it works longer. And what would you do if children appear? You can’t kick them out in any case. They are forever. Even if you put in a contract the condition that you don’t want children, a woman easily can avoid this condition. Any court will be on her side finally and you’ll have to support the child even if you get rid of his mother. By he way after 5-6 years not just a woman, but you, too, will become 5-6 years older. Do you really think, you’ll get more time and energy by that time than now for chasing new girls?


To Stravinsky:

“Any contract between an American citizen and a foreign citizen to buy a green card, would, of course, be illegal. It would have no force or effect in the U.S. You couldn't take it to court and say, "Well, your honor, she promised to fuck me for 3 years if I got her a green card." – You right, that’s why it should be especially well worked out in case the husband does such stupid thing as saying in court that marriage was just for girl’s citizenship. In this case the wife will waste several years and the final goal is still not achieved. So, at least, intermediate results have to be fair enough to cover the loss of the whole deal.

[Cool Morris]

[QUOTE=Helena Moscow]To Cool Morris:

“What if we say the husband is a tall, good looking well to do guy, and the only reason why he wants this is because he is so busy he doesn't have time to chase women” – You advertise yourself really well, I wonder why women don’t chase you themselves ;)))))) By the way I still can’t understand, why you plan to divorce after several years. For what purpose? Is marriage works for several years there is a good chance that it works longer. And what would you do if children appear? You can’t kick them out in any case. They are forever. Even if you put in a contract the condition that you don’t want children, a woman easily can avoid this condition. Any court will be on her side finally and you’ll have to support the child even if you get rid of his mother. By he way after 5-6 years not just a woman, but you, too, will become 5-6 years older. Do you really think, you’ll get more time and energy by that time than now for chasing new girls?[QUOTE]Good Points Helena, however your argument is based on some assumptions. At the core of any marriage lies companionship, emotional support, security and sex. These are the most basic common denominators. If I am a person who is not dependent on a woman for emotional fulfillment (because maybe I get that from my social circle of friends and work), and if I am well to do and not require security, that only leaves sex. Strictly thinking pragmatically, the only reason I need a woman in my life is for sex. I can clearly differentiate between loving and Sex. Almost all men on the planet can too. Yes, I can chase the women in US, but all men here can tell you what a wasteful, and expensive proposition that is.

As for the children part: Well, we live in thew orld of science and reason. There are minor surgical procedures that can be done to "tie-up" certain things and absolutely prevent child birth. Or, has it ever occured to you that maybe this person is unable to have children in the first place? :P

[Big Bro AJ]

If you plan to establish a German FKK/ Russian banya mix sauna/club; which services would you like? And what are your expectations from such clubs.

Indoor and out door pool, sauna and hot tab, private rooms with different concepts and more

[Prosal]

In winter, you better take the best flat anyone offers you,
or you'll be cold, miserable, without hot water or no water,
bored out of your skull, and sleep depraved.

Hope that you'll be lucky and get a flat that's just been re-done,
new furniture/bed and with everything working plus SAT-TV, dvd,
spa, etc.

But for that, you'll pay at least $80 a day. Its still 100% better
than a hotel that would cost twice as much and offer 90% less.

Having those comforts will also warm up the dyevs so they'll
be grateful to stay all night.


Bez, thanks for the answer.

I'm definitely way better off in an apartment but finding internet sites for short-term rentals in provincial Russia is (or at least seems) VERY difficult. If you have any tip for decent apartments in Samara, Kazan or Ufa, it would be GREATLY appreciatd.

Cheers

[Helena Moscow]

At the core of any marriage lies companionship, emotional support, security and sex. These are the most basic common denominators. If I am a person who is not dependent on a woman for emotional fulfillment (because maybe I get that from my social circle of friends and work), and if I am well to do and not require security, that only leaves sex. Strictly thinking pragmatically, the only reason I need a woman in my life is for sex. I can clearly differentiate between loving and Sex. Almost all men on the planet can too. Yes, I can chase the women in US, but all men here can tell you what a wasteful, and expensive proposition that is.

As for the children part: Well, we live in thew orld of science and reason. There are minor surgical procedures that can be done to "tie-up" certain things and absolutely prevent child birth. Or, has it ever occured to you that maybe this person is unable to have children in the first place? :P


Ok, now clear ;). Then you just have to offer the proper amount of money and wait untill someone agrees. I think you have good chances, especially with girls under 25 who are not in a hurry with kids.

[Bez Bezarra]

I'm not finding internet sites for short-term rentals in provincial Russia.



Look, Pro.
You've got quite a bit more experience than me.
I would kill for the chance to linger/explore/roam
for 4 or 5 weeks at a time.

What you must have is someone on the inside to get you set up,
or at least initiate some contacts who will do the same.
Or if you speak well enough like Doc, just show up, get a
hotel, and then start looking, and within a couple days,
you'lll find your own contacts and make arrangements on the
fly.

See ya in Velikykrasnonovobashkotartaroctyabrgorskinsky'ya.

Have a nice trip.

[Big Bro AJ]

I found this blog, which was dedicated to beloved Russian women.

I fall in love with 1/1 , 2/1-2-3 , 3/2 , 7/2-3…(check out the photos in images section)



http://russianwomen.wordpress.com/2006/07/28/what-is-a-genuine-russian-woman/

[Helena Moscow]

Yes alright, very few girls over 26 havn't got child and difficult for us to have a future wife like it but not possible. Over 30 it's strange and surely they have a problem by the point of view of russian society. Contrary to Europe where women make choice to don't have kid or not between 18-40 yo.


Vince, we have no more problems with society. Society is us, older generation no more opens their mouth to teach us how to live. 5-6 years ago we really had a lot of problems with their old ideas, but now fortunately, this shit is already in the past. Now women don't really care so much for family as obligatory part of life. We want family, but the more important is happiness and comfort. If we are more happy alone than in marriage, we prefer to be single. Having a husband was really a sort of "duty" in old times. No matter what husband - alcoholic or a loser - "the husband must be". Now many women prefer to have kids and no husbands at all instead of having someone whose presence in the life is "useless" = doesn't bring happiness and comfort. Children now appear later than before, but, still, they shouldn't be too late, because we need time to raise them and see them grow. And not to dye when they are still little and weak. That's the reason why the deal of a 5-6 year contract with a steril man is not suitable for women after 25. They have not too much time any more for temporary projects. Thay need something real and have enough skills to get what they want without a false marriage.

[Traveller22]

This question is posted in the Russian and Ukrainian forum.
I have already bothered Doctor Skank by asking him the best ways and places to approach Russian girls. Doc gave me an excellent answer but now I have a more specific question.
Many mongers here can approach a lot of times even when they are alone. I just would like to know the most usual and efficient pickup-lines/ice-breakers that you use with Russian girls, the first words pronounced to get in touch with them.

[Big Bro AJ]

Find a bisexual Russian girl friend and let her do the talking. It works like a charm.


This question is posted in the Russian and Ukrainian forum.

I have already bothered Doctor Skank by asking him the best ways and places to approach Russian girls. Doc gave me an excellent answer but now I have a more specific question.

Many mongers here can approach a lot of times even when they are alone. I just would like to know the most usual and efficient pickup-lines/ice-breakers that you use with Russian girls, the first words pronounced to get in touch with them.

[Traveller22]

Big Bro, I appreciate your posts very much. Your knowledge of EE girls is truly impressive to me. I am sure that you can give good and practical tips concerning the best way to approach Russian freebies!!:-))

[Big Bro AJ]

DOC and BEZ are the real mentors also don't forget IT who is master in finding freebies who get crazy for Greek. I am a simple guy, who tries to enjoy the beauties and possibilities of mother Russia.

After a crazy house party, I decided to date with my current Moldavian girlfriend. Since than my chance to find freebies have doubled. My girlfriend is bisexual and opens for threesome.

Normal Russian girls are suspicious and curios when a foreigner tries to approach them. But if you go out with your girl friend and if she does all the talking, than the ice wall come to the ground more easily. This is my way.

[Traveller22]

I tried a few times to suggest it (very diplomatically) but the girls were shocked!
Anyway Big bro, I am sure that you are right on the money; it is probably indeed by far the best way. The main problem with it is that you need a great deal of luck to find girls who would be open to bisexual experiences. Maybe I have to ask it much more frequently and more directly!

[Big Bro AJ]

I am only a humble monger who is addicted to EE girls. I am not as talented as DOC and you are.

Besides I am not as creative as DOC,

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=336560&postcount=2258

My success rate is 7/10; I don’t like chasing girls from one bar stool to another. Plus who guarantees the success!!

22 July 2006 Saturday night, bisexual girl friend and I were at Fabrique. If I were alone my success rate would be very low. But my girl friend did dirty dance with one blonde and passionate red head than she presented them to me… She got what she desired (two sexy women) and I got what I wanted “a foursome”.

This is not a secret formula; this is what I like.





A wise master-monger shares his wisdom with the grasshoppers!

When she can snatch the kopek from my wallet, it will be time
for me to leave.

PS: She is only 24 and in adult industry but makes more than most of us.

[Traveller22]

Big Bro and Bez, could you tell us how to find a bisexual EE girl?:-))
I have always thought that there were very few girls of this kind, especially in the Russian speaking world.

[Bez Bezarra]

But how to find a bisexual EE girl?

I thought very few Russians.



Only true lesbo dyevs are sitting around thinking about
beaver licking.

But there's enough dyevs whose curiosity if adequately
stimulated, would be open-minded enough to just go for it,
and then, who knows, it just depends on personality, but
it could get seriously interesting. :-0

Investing a week or so for her to get comfortably relaxed,
she could think of a girlfriend to suggest for a threesome,
or at least know where to find a dyev for that.

[Prosal]

I called the russian embassy and it seems that to get a visa one have to arrange the entire trip (EXACT schedule, appartments reservations for the whole stay) BEFORE leaving. That's VERY annoying. How to be sure that Kazan will be better than Samara or Saratov better than Ufa ?

I imagined that I could ramble around three or four provincial cities and then choose which place is the best for an extended stay.

Is there a way to get the visa without planning the exact shedule ?

[Doctor_Skank]

Prosal,

Apply for a business visa (multiple-entry, 1 year). It costs more initially, but saves money and lots of headaches in the end. You can travel freely throughout Russia, although theoretically you must register everywhere you go. This is a minor hassle, nothing serious.

To get a business visa you need an invitation.... several agencies are able to do this, pretty much any agency that can get you a tourist visa can get you a business one. Look into it if you plan on travelling in Russia.

[Prosal]

Thanks Doc for the tip.

[Bez Bezarra]

Remember that if you plan to stay for more than ten days in the city,
that you are required within 3 days of arrival, to go to their regional
government SIDA control (HIV-AIDS) clinic and get a test and certificate
to register your passport. It costs a few dollars, but if you wait more
than 3 days, it will end up costing you +$150, and you will have to be
multiple fingerprinted and photographed into their FSB police computer
database. All this shit will take up many hours of your time, over several
days. Their 'system' is anything but tourist friendly.

If you stay in a hotel the first day or two, they can register your passport
for you, but I'm not sure how that works if you're staying longer.

Or, you can just skip the whole thing, but when you try to get through
immigration at the airport when you are leaving for home, expect to
be hit up for a huge bribe after they pull you out of the line to interrogate
you in the supervisor's office. So get there plenty early.

Have a nice trip. ;)

[Doctor_Skank]

Bez:

I've heard of the HIV/STD test requirement before, but never heard of anybody actually having it done. Nor have I ever been asked about it when in Russia or when exiting, even after an extended period of time. Did you encounter this in your Russian travels and have to have testing done? Any more info on this?

Prosal:
Regarding registration, you can have this done the old-fashioned official way with the city, or have yourself registered in a local hotel. Unlike Moscow where the hotels may charge you a lot for this service, in provincial cities it won't cost more than 500 rubles. Most any Russian hotel can register you for the period of time you determine, even if you don't stay there. They'll charge you some fee, at the very most the cost of one night's stay. Usually however they are happy with 300-500 rubles.

Bez is right though, you should get registered somewhere though, to avoid any possible hassles. The easiest way is to get registered the day you arrive and have them register you for the entire time you are going to be in country.

[Stravinsky]

HIV testing is necessary for anyone applying for a visa to visit Russia that is valid for more than 30 days, such as a business visa.

People applying for a tourist visa for a stay of 30 days or less do not need an HIV test.

[Himself]

HIV testing is necessary for anyone applying for a visa to visit Russia that is valid for more than 30 days, such as a business visa.

People applying for a tourist visa for a stay of 30 days or less do not need an HIV test.

I am not sure: Just got a one year visa issued in Germany without doing the test, but yes last year the HIV-test was an requirement.

HS

[Traveller22]

DOC, in case of random control by the militsia in the street it won't be a problem to be registered in an hotel where you don't live?

[Doctor_Skank]

Strav:

"HIV testing is necessary for anyone applying for a visa to visit Russia that is valid for more than 30 days, such as a business visa."

Not true in my experience. I have been on business visas for the last 5 years and never been tested by the Russians or required to show any proof that I have ever been tested.

Traveller22:

The militia don't care where you are registered. You should just remember the name and location of the hotel in case they ask...

[FineArt]

Visa: If you have a one year multi entry visa you are by russian law obliged to present a valid Hiv-test. Or at least the issuing authority, usually the consulate where you apply for the visa, is supposed demand such a test presented.

This rule was originally introduced to stop people from african countries with high levels of aids during the aids-paranoia years a decade or two ago. I don't say hiv/aids is anything to laugh about, but some of the panic seems to have vanished due to better medication and knowledge.

Anyways, the hiv-test was made mandatory for everybody, probably to avoid being accused for racism. Since then it just never was removed.

Registration: Dr, is absolutely right. As long as you have a registration, it doesn't really matter if you stay somewhere else. Just memorize it before you go out and get drunk, because that's when you're most likely to be stopped by militsia.
Most travel agents can help you with registration for a fee. Or even better if you can get a hotel to stamp your immigration card with the necessary dates.

If you have your papers in order you should have nothing to fear from the police. The may try to sqeeze you for a few hundred rubles though. So avoid dark back alleys late at night when you're drunk going to or from a club or bar. Thet's where they will try to grab you. Or in a gipsy-cab going from a club, maybe with a girl because they know then you're more likely to pay your way out to avoid trouble. Note that sometimes they cooperate with taxi-drivers outside clubs. I therefore always walk away from taxis parked just outside clubs. This also will save you some money because an independent taxi is usually at least half price.

And always remember, the militsia has no interest in bringing you in to the station, even if that's what they tell you and threathen with. That means no money, or sharing with a bunch of other cops. And they don't wanna loose hours bringing you in. Doing all the paperworks, for nothing, when there are plenty other victims out there are willing to pay.

Just be confident and show you know your rights. But by all means don't be arrogant or impolite. That can really trigger a underpayed cop to give you more trouble than you wanna think about. It's all about not making the cop feel he's loosing face. Just smile and be firm, but friendly, and you'll normally have no trouble.

Good luck, and stay out of trouble!

[Himself]

I just got a new one year business for Russia issued last week, and without HIV test. However, last year they required the test for same visa and duration. Both visas issued in Germany.

[Moscow Wolf]

I just got a new one year business for Russia issued last week, and without HIV test. However, last year they required the test for same visa and duration. Both visas issued in Germany.I've also just finished the one-year Visa process, and I did need the HIV test, for the third year in a row. All visa issued in Warsaw, Poland. (But I'm an Austrian citizen)

So, it seems there is a requirement, but whether it is executed might depend on the local habit.

[Bez Bezarra]

HIV testing is necessary for anyone applying for a visa
to visit Russia that is valid for more than 30 days,
such as a business visa.

People applying for a tourist visa for a stay of 30 days or less
do not need an HIV test.



Thank you gentelmen for all your input. I had a feeling
that my comments would generate a wide response.
All your info is interesting, however mine is based on the
trip I just made into the provinces only 2 months ago this summer.

I was told ahead of time by both of my travel agents in Moscow
and in the provinces that "ALL FOREIGNERS STAYING MORE THAN
7 DAYS", not 30, must get or bring an "International"
certificate that explains I don't have HIV. If I stay less than 7
days, I don't need it. I went to a clinic in my home town, they
tested me, but no one ever heard of an "International certificate".
Of course they did not accept my clinic's paperwork at the
provincial registration office!

When I arrived, I was much too busy sleeping, mongering, and getting
settled after 37 hours of planes and trains to do anything "required",
and only learned after several days that I had already violated the rule
that you must register no later than 3 days after arrival, so I had to pay
a 3000 ruble fine, get finger-printed, etc. The clerical workers at the
police department were professional and courteous, but slower
than molasses. The fingerprint dyev was blond and cute, I should
have asked her if I could give her a cavity search, but she didn't look
too friendly.

I should have tried to register through a hotel, I didn't think they
would do it since I stayed in a flat the whole time, but I think I still
would've had to provide the test results. Since I arrived on a Saturday,
and the clinic was closed on Monday because of some holiday, I
would have missed the 3 day deadline no matter what. It took
2 days to get my "certificate" anyway.

I didn't even try to get a business visa, so I don't know that if I had,
I wouldn't be required to be tested. I will check that next summer.

As far as dealing with Militsia in public, I walked around every day
and every night and they never noticed me once, whether I was
in CIS military clothes or not. In the bazaars though, the kiosk
workers always gave me a strange look when I was in uniform,
they would look at me, then at my coat, and then look down at
the ground. I guess they thought I wanted some bribes!

So I would stand there and not move, they'd look back up at me,
and I'd give them a big smile. Then they would look very worried
and confused. So I blurt out in my Texas drawl, "Heeeey there! How
ya'll doin' today?" Then they'd really freak! Its fucking hilarious!

Himself-You don't need to be tested to GET a visa, you need it to
register your passport AFTER you arrive.

[Stravinsky]

Doc - I've never been tested for AIDS in Russia either. I was thinking of the AIDS test that is required when you apply for your visa, before you enter the country.

Apparently, the AIDS test requirement is based on the country where you apply. Or maybe it's simply enforced capriciously (imagine that!). Some people must have it, and others don't.

I am in the process of applying for a Russian business visa here in the U.S. What I have been told by the Russian Consulate here is that I must submit the results of an AIDS test (negative of course) along with my application. I guess that's because gospodin Putin has such a special fondness for Americans. Sort of like his fondness for Georgians! LOL

But, it seems, if you apply in Germany, then the aids test is not necessary.

Do you travel with a U.S. passport? Do you return to the U.S. to renew your Pycckii visa? Or do you apply from someplace outside the U.S.? Maybe that's why no one has ever asked you for an aids test.

Bez - your story is interesting. Can you share with us, where is this place in Russia that requires an AIDS test if you stay for more than 7 days?

I'm also curious about your report on wearing a uniform???

"..whether I was in CIS military clothes or not. In the bazaars though, the kiosk workers always gave me a strange look when I was in uniform..."

What kind of uniform are you wearing? Are you KGB?? :)

[Prosal]

I am in the process of applying for a Russian business visa here in the U.S.

I found a specialized travel agency which provide the 'invitation' and the one year/multiple entry business visa for 420 € (HIV test required). For the three monthes/two entries business visa (no HIV test required) they ask 220 €. It takes about 10 days.

Cheers

[Stravinsky]

Prosal,

Wow! 420 Euro. The Russian consulate here in the U.S. will process 1 year/multiple entry for $100. Of course, they put it on the bottom of the pile, and it may take you 6 weeks to get it, but, I'm in no hurry...

I'd rather spend the extra $400 on the dyeffki. I notice my favorite just relisted herself on Intimcity. :)

[Doctor_Skank]

Strav:

I have a US passport, but always apply for the Russian visa abroad. They did make me fill out the extra long "special for Americans" application wanting to know "everything I've done ever in my life" and confirm that I am neither a "spy nor terrorist". This ridiculous piece of bureaucratic nonsense was issued... you guessed it... just weeks after US immigration started making Russian visa applicants fill out an equally inane form. Thanks Dzhorsh. Another "mission accomplished."

Prosal:

420 Euro sounds high... I pay about 250 Euro incl. invitation, express processing etc... As Strav says, there are cheaper options, one way is having a business partner issue an invitation and doing all the processing yourself with the Russian embassy. Will take a while longer though.. but if you have the time...

[Traveller22]

Doc, you paid 250 Euros only for the invitation or the consulate fees were also included?

[Shostakovich]

Well the official reports say that you will need an HIV test to get the multible entry Visa for Russia...also as an German cititen...but it's not worth to think about it!

I always go personally for the embassy to collect my Visa within 3 hours. Of course it is the most expensive way but when you personally talk to the officer in charge, they will never claim.

I made 3 Years ago a HIV test for them which I still use and they never asked for!!! I always show them my collection of papers except the test and no one ever ask for!!!

They are only interested in collecting as much money as possible and there for they have to issue the Visa within 3 hours, doesnt matter how!

Only thing you really need is the registration number of your invitation, one picture and the filled form for the health insurance! Even this paper they are not able to check and you can fill the lines with any insurance company which is aprooved and you can use any number you have in your mind to fill out the contract number field!!!

Just my 2 cent's........

Shos






All this HIV bullshit likely mirrors some requirements that the US has
set for Russian citizens who visit America.

Apologies to Himself. I said you only need HIV test to get registered
and that is not correct. Business Visa for + 3 months requires HIV
test. The organization who invites you must be registered with the
Ministry of Interior or the Foreign Ministry from the region you will
visit.

What makes little sense is that single entry tourist visa, or multiple
entry business visa cost the same, $100! I think paying the extra
$50 they ask to process in 3-5 days will keep you off the bottom
of their piles. I got mine back in a week's time for $150.

Strav. Sorry my druk, my activities and employers prevent me at this
time from providing specific details as to whereabouts and attire. I
don't think KGB uniforms are in fashion at present, and I certainly
would never pass myself off in THAT capacity.

I can only say that my original theory of
"Go East, Young Man. Go East!", should
deliver the adventure seeking monger into
a world devoid of ANY fat white cows or western
tourists. Its always a bit of a shock when I land back in
Frankfurt airport and get to the gate for the flight back to
the US, surrounded once again by ugly whining and
complaining americunts that look at me with contempt
for the russian pussy eating grin still on my face.

Anyway, going east sure works for me. Getting there
is NEVER easy, and that's the whole point. Go where others
don't, and things are much more interesting, affordable, and fun.

[Himself]

Strav:

I have a US passport, but always apply for the Russian visa abroad. They did make me fill out the extra long "special for Americans" application wanting to know "everything I've done ever in my life" and confirm that I am neither a "spy nor terrorist". This ridiculous piece of bureaucratic nonsense was issued... you guessed it... just weeks after US immigration started making Russian visa applicants fill out an equally inane form. Thanks Dzhorsh. Another "mission accomplished."

Prosal:

420 Euro sounds high... I pay about 250 Euro incl. invitation, express processing etc... As Strav says, there are cheaper options, one way is having a business partner issue an invitation and doing all the processing yourself with the Russian embassy. Will take a while longer though.. but if you have the time...

With all respect for your good country which the whole world owes a lot (whenever there is a problem the US helps - admit always not very succesfull but you at least try to improve things), I am smilling when I hear that the Russians have special long questianaire for Americans, I am citizen from a small country who fights side by side with the Americans in Iraq, and today I went to the Embassy in Berlin to get a new US-visa, and I had to fill in the normal long quasinaire asking if I am gay or has been in jail for sex with minors etc, but now I also had to wait four hours to attend an interview with some guy, an interview which only took two minutes and asking me if I would bring a crediit card with me, and if I ever had been in pakistan or afghanistan, and why I had a stamp from Egypt in my passport....

sorry, not my intention to turn this into a political discussion, but I am still boiling.

[Stravinsky]

Shos,

OK, let me see if I understand this...

You seem to be saying that if I appear at the Russian Consulate, promptly at 09:00, with all my dokymenti in hand, that they must issue me a visa that same day?

If that's the case, then I may as well wait until the next time I'm in SFO.

Himself,

LOL! I know exactly how you feel. I guess it just goes to show that bureaucracy flourishes the world over.

BTW, just curious, but if I were in your home town and asked the bartender for a Black & Tan, would he know what I meant?

[Traveller22]

I have read on another forum that the maximal registration time now is 90 days only instead of 180 before. Can someone confirm it?

[Doctor_Skank]

Trav22:

I've heard the same, max 90 days. But then again, as we learned with the "optional" required HIV test, all is relative in Russia... Permenant residents have longer term registrations obviously.

Strav:

Shos is saying that you can order express processing and get the visa back the same day. You pay an extra fee.

[Shostakovich]

Strav

since I make this investment only once per Year I prefer to use the Visa express Service.

They charge you following fees for an 1 Year multible entry visa:

within 15days 255€

next day 300€

and same day means within 1 hour 340€

for this 85€ more I have the guarantee that everything will working fine!

Black & Tan? well I'm not a big fan of Guinness or Guinness mixed with Harp's or whatever......

Shos


Shos,

OK, let me see if I understand this...

You seem to be saying that if I appear at the Russian Consulate, promptly at 09:00, with all my dokymenti in hand, that they must issue me a visa that same day?

If that's the case, then I may as well wait until the next time I'm in SFO.

Himself,

LOL! I know exactly how you feel. I guess it just goes to show that bureaucracy flourishes the world over.

BTW, just curious, but if I were in your home town and asked the bartender for a Black & Tan, would he know what I meant?

[Doctor_Skank]

Well I know why ISG's premier pioneer Bez Bezarra likes to wear a uniform...

[Bez Bezarra]

Plaez now, dunt you mek fon ov deez Polizzi!
Ya dem bestert.

Eets hord verk, lukking oop skarts, ya know.
;):) hehehe

Vee olves mast chik far smokkling kantroband
een da koochies, ent vist sneeffing da poozies. :(

So vee sink yoo var motch.

(you detty mazza fakkas!)

[Aht169]

Hi all:

I have just returned after four and half days of the most interesting travel I have done in a really long time. This was my first time in Moscow and hopefully not my last!. Unfortunately this trip was purely a business trip so while mongering was on the agenda, it was problematic at best :-((

For those who still might be out there, who like me have serious reservations about traveling to Russia, I wanted to give you a few paragraphs of my “newbie’s” impressions and some updates on what I perceived the realities to be of traveling there. I may be off base, but this is what I experienced recently.

First off, if you are considering going, intrigued, curious, but are unsure, let me just say one word: GO!!! The trip to Moscow may not be cheap, but what the hell, it is only money.

The following are some thoughts and impressions about the whole experience which I hope will be of some assistance.

Moscow – An impression of the city: For us Americans who remember Russia being the evil empire before Perestroika, it is not what I expected. I still had an image of a country and city that would be depressing, harassing, difficult to navigate, still resembling those pictures of the way it was under communist rule. That certainly was not the case. While Moscow has a long way to go before becoming truly a “Western” city, everywhere one looks you can see the West’s influence and see that things are changing – quickly! All the more reason to go sooner than later. There are areas that look like the west, but when you venture out and about, and you should, you still see some of what is expected, old apartments that make the projects look nice, disintegrating concrete, depressing looking areas, and industrial areas that would clearly EPA officials go screaming into the night! But again things are changing. We have to remember after 70+ years of communism and a current leadership which is considered by US to be a dictator, you can’t change things overnight – although the Russians are trying and have done some amazing things so far.

The people: I found most people to be very nice, and either amused by or appreciative of my feeble attempt at Russian – I’m not sure which. People were willing to help when asking a question on the street or in some cases taking the initiative to help me out. The one thing I did notice, while we Americans walk tall, like we own the place, knowing that we are free, (okay, maybe a little arrogant), smiling and generally happy, it does not seem to be the same for the locals. It really hit me that many of them seem to walk always looking down, typically avoiding eye contact, and NEVER smiling. It seems that most are almost afraid of being seen smiling! From my perspective, and I could be wrong here, it seems they still are living in some level of fear or uncertainty and are still not really comfortable with the new realities. Again just a bystander’s observation. In any case though, I still found the people in Moscow interesting and nice. Certainly beats other countries’ residents….I will let you decide which ones I mean.

Language: This is one country where many people do not speak a second language. If you stay in or go to the tourist/expensive part of Moscow, there is usually no problem finding someone that speaks English. It is easy to obtain menus with some level of English, and some individuals have a least a basic level of English. Even the cop that stopped us in Red square to check our “papers” spoke English quite well – well enough to get my joke about my passport picture and make him crack up – much to his embarrassment :-) But these are the exceptions, and Russian is still very much the only language.

Along with the fact that most people don’t really speak English, you got to keep in mind that almost every sign is in Cyrillic – especially when it comes to transportation. For the most part, restaurants and shops have some signage or written in Latin characters/English so it is possible to make some stuff out. But when traveling around outside of tourist areas, you won’t find much using Latin alphabet. This goes for metro, buses, street signs, directions etc. the best suggestion is to have a really good map (and phase book) that has major items written in Cyrillic and Latin characters, and learn to recognize key Cyrillic signs (like exit, change, direction you heading, key street names etc….). At the end of the 4 days I was there, I was starting to recognize some of the basics which made things all of sudden much easier. Final note, unlike being in Asia, where the characters are not at all similar, the Cyrillic alphabet has some common letters with English so it is easy to get confused. These are not the same and don’t have the same pronunciation, so just be aware.

Visa & Such: Okay, so this is still a relatively closed/paranoid society, so as such, you will need to get an invitation letter for your visa and go through a few hoops. This is no problem – just Goggle the net and you will find lots of ways of getting this. The only thing is that you will need to plan on paying for this – as with everything about Russia. Once you have the letter (easy to get) apply for the appropriate Visa. Again, money talks! Although the application itself is ridiculous, (I have had to share less information on a job app), the visa not too hard to get. One note of caution, make sure that all the dates on the letter of invite, visa, and actual travel dates coincide. They are really sticklers about this and if anything is off, you will need to start the whole process again. So be aware.

Airport Arrival & Departures: I have harder times getting in and out of the US and other Asian countries! The lines for immigration/entry were not that bad - about 15 minutes wait. Getting through customs, not an issue. Just go through the green line – unless of course you carrying over $10,000 in cash (now that is a lot of mongering!). Departures are even easier! Go through the green line through customs, and immigration is a snap. I always had this impression that it was going to be a nightmare, read of the 2-3 hour lines, and bag searches. That seems to be gone for the moment. The key is to make sure you have all your paperwork in proper order (visa, passport, immigration paperwork) Also most of the documents at the airport are now available in both Russian and English which is really nice given I don’t speak Russian!

Getting around Moscow: From the Airport, I would really suggest hiring a car ahead of time to meet you when you arrive. You can find services doing this for $50-$80 depending on the car. This will help you avoid the onslaught of taxi drivers at the exit of immigration/customs. These guys are a real pain in the Ass. You can take a bus to the subway, but quite honestly, I would strongly suggest a car as a necessary treat. They will wait for you with a sign, and take you directly to your hotel/apartment. A very nice way to arrive. Note: The airport itself is not exactly first class, but it is efficient and has the needed amenities. For God sake’s there is even a TGI Fridays in the departure area upstairs!!! This is NOT the airport that was described in my travel book.

Once you are in Moscow, I would strongly suggest using the subway as much as possible. It is inexpensive, efficient and quick. It also gives you a feel of the real Moscow which can be hard to get depending on where you stay. Buses look a little dicer, but I believe a good option. Cabs can be relatively cheap, but should be negotiated before the ride. Keep in mind though that the cars that the hotels have tend to be about 2-3x the going cab rate, and that cabs can be more expensive on Friday and Saturdays due to the demand (100-300 Rubbles more for a given journey). This “additional cost” may be a rip off of unknowing businessmen, but seemed to be a consistent story. Not sure if this was BS, but whatever! Dealing with cabs is a little bit of a pain if you can’t speak Russian. I was however able to communicate fairly well with business cards, hotel maps that are in Russian and English, and did manage to get to where I was going. Cell phones are great when it comes to being able to communicate proposed prices. The one thing that still makes me nervous is the whole rogue taxi scene. This has been documented well on this site as well as in traveling books. Apparently it is safe and inexpensive, but not speaking Russian, it made me a little nervous to jump into someone’s private car after negotiating the price. I did do it on one occasion, but I was with a provider who spoke Russian and negotiated the cost. That was an experience, but I am here to tell the story, if not to my significant other, at least to you guys! There is nothing traveling in a LAda that is clearly falling apart, has no interior covers on the doors! What an adventure! If you feel adventurous or speak Russian, I am led to believe this is a great way to get around.

Driving & Crossing the street: When it comes to driving in other countries, I am pretty brave. I will try most anything. However, given what I observed, when it comes to driving in Moscow, I would really think twice about this. Granted it probably is better than Rome, but not by much. These guys in Moscow are crazy! Additionally, there is a lot of traffic – LOTS. Parking looks like the ultimate pain in the ass. From my limited experience, I would argue, walk, taxi, metro and bus it around town. I believe this is the better alternative. However, if you do feel brave, make sure you get full insurance. You will probably need it!

Walking Moscow, especially the main tourist areas, is interesting. One suggestion, make sure you are really careful when crossing streets! From what I observed, it seems that pedestrians are annoyance to be run down if they can! Even when there are lights and protected cross walks, a pedestrian is at risk Be forewarned. Fortunately, Moscow has many tunnels below most major street intersections and along some of the really long boulevards – Tverskaya for example, which allows pedestrians to cross in relative safety. Use them, as often as possible and keep in mind you sometime have to look for the entrances – sometimes part of a building. Additionally you will find interesting shops and people in these tunnels. A true Moscow experience.

Places to Stay: I am far from the expert as this was a business trip and my company was paying the bill. I stayed at the Marriott T. which was convenient, but expensive. As a whole, I noticed that hotels are really expensive even by US standards. Lodging has been significantly discussed on the board so I won’t go into too many details What I would say, staying at a brand named Western hotel for your first trip is not a bad option. This will allow you to get a lay of the land and figure out the ins and outs. They do facilitate things as well. Depending on how much time you have, this is not bad option. To be honest for my next trip – assuming it is not a business trip, I will be looking or for an apartment – no question about this.

Tourism: As an American who grew up with the “Evil Empire” as our counterpart, standing in Red Square looking at St. Basil’s, Gum, and Lenin’s tomb, all I can say is, it was incredible. Oh WOW! Lots to see and do. One thing though, don’t expect Moscow to be a really beautiful city as like a Paris, Rome, or Stockholm. It is still pretty gritty, but there are still really nice sites to see, and the Russians are rebuilding and replacing the ugliness pretty quickly. So from a purely tourism perspective, it has value, but you shouldn’t have your hopes really high.

The Women – non providers: Oh…….... MY…………. DEAR………..GOD!!!!! I personally believe there is more eye candy per square mile than anywhere else on earth. I fell in and out love so many times, I have permanent heartache! To be honest, part of it is the way these women dress. They dress stylishly, smartly, sexy and demure all at once, without looking slutty. It is quite the combination. Without the need to see a lot of skin, you know - no question - how good they would look naked in your bed! Additionally, I personally find many of these girls be truly pretty/beautiful – and there are all sorts, blondes (yum!) redheads, brunettes, etc…the list goes on! Additionally, while they seem to be a little distance with strangers, I watched the overall scene when walking around, and believe that if you speak Russian, it might not be too hard to snag a couple non-pro girls for a “relationship”. Bottom line, I really need to learn some Russian before my next trip!

Providers: Here my report will leave a lot to be desired and I apologize in advance. The problem is that my trip was business related and I had evening engagements I was expected to participate in as well as meetings first thing in the mornings for which I needed to be conscious and semi-intelligent. Given that most of the mongering is in the PM hours, it was hard to really take advantage of and still be ready to roll in the AM. However, that did not prevent me from having a really nice experience with a really cute girl (see my Moscow post).. There is no question from what I could see there were lots of opportunity for someone with the right amount of time and schedule. Based on my single experience, all I can say is that it is something that you shouldn’t miss – like you would! Nothing having a provider stay all night, cuddle like girlfriend and fuck your brains out like a true pro. Incredible!!

Girl friendly hotels: As I have mentioned several times, my experience regarding mongering was very limited. However, when bringing back my new “girlfriend” to the Marriott T., I encountered no problems whatsoever. Obviously I got the looks, and had to do the walk of shame through the lobby, but other than that, no issues. For other hotels, I will refer you to the other postings as they have provided significant info on this point.

The cops: As I mentioned earlier, we got stop by a cop in Red square to check our passport. It is kind of funny to have a cop salute you first then in a typical gruff Russian ask to you to produce your documents, passport, visa and immigration card – with an attitude of “please cross me – make my day!”. In the West that is pretty much a thing of the past, but here it seems to be SOP. The key here is not to panic. Always carry your passport and immigration card with you. Make sure that all your documents are in proper order, and most importantly make sure that your immigration form is stamped by the hotel or apartment or whatever to show where you staying – and for God sakes do NOT overstay your visa or documented hotel/apartment stay. This will give them an excuse to harass you. If everything is order, they will thank you and you’ll be off. The whole experience will take less than a couple minutes and is relatively painless.

One thing I keep hearing and did end up doing, was to keep photocopies of everything back at my hotel/just in case it gets lost or stolen. Called me paranoid, but I figured that this would help in case I needed it replaced..

Security & safety: When my parents heard I was heading to Moscow, they about had a cow!. I got a lecture that Russian Mafia was everywhere and I needed to be really careful, blah, blah blah!!!! The reality is that I have felt more uncomfortable in some US and Western European Cities. I had the opportunity to stroll around Moscow even late at night and a no time did I feel uneasy. Now this isn’t to say that one should not be careful. Clearly, I was aware of my surroundings, and took appropriate precautions, but for the most part, Moscow seemed a fairly safe city. Now I believe that there are areas where this is not the case, but from my limited experience I didn’t really feel that it was a problem. – just probably naive!

One thing is certain though, no matter where you go, hotels, restaurants, stores, malls, tourist areas, offices (places of business) there is security everywhere. My personal favorite was visiting the local BP offices and having to come face to face with a private security guard brandishing a machine gun!. Only in Russia. There is no question when it comes to business security there are issues, and most locales have taken the appropriate measures, but when walking around touring or “cruising”, it doesn’t seem to be much of a problem.

Summary: Russia has got to be he most interesting destination I have been to in a really long time! The overall experience was incredible and though I had SERIOUS reservations about this trip, I wish I could have stayed longer, and gone there sooner. (all I got to do is figure out how to get back!). As with traveling to exotic locations for the first time, you might feel uneasy, however, from my perspective, it was not too different than traveling in the Europe – as a whole. The key is to have an open mind, be open to new possibilities and just go with the flow. Trust me, you won’t regret it!

Stay Safe
AHT169

[Big Bro AJ]

Aht169,

Thanks for the joyful report. I just remember my first time in Moscow. I shared the similar feelings and thoughts.

I was standing in the middle of Red Square where all the glorious victory ceremonies took place. Undefeatable Red Army was marching and the high commissioners of the communist party were watching the parade.

And unforgettable natural beauty of the Russian women.

[Starchild2012]

aht169,

You Rock.

This was simply the most detailed, amazing, devastatingly beautfiul description of things to experience for newbie ...hats offf...

I feel more lighter now, as many things are cleared, during my search for why russian's don't smile to a foreigner..its not only with foreigner's but to common folks too, many people surveyed in russia..blamed the gloomy wheather half year long for sad face and no smiles...however its true that russian heart is as big as their land itself.

For your next trip, you could try one of electronic translators which translates russian in to english and vice versa..voice to voice ..you can get more info here
www.ectaco.com

thanks for the report...

[Coding Wizard]

Excellent!

Aht, you've given me the hope to go, because I've been to Odessa and Kiev, and I want to go to Moscow and St Petersburg.

How do they treat Asians, any impressions?

[Aht169]

Excellent!

Aht, you've given me the hope to go, because I've been to Odessa and Kiev, and I want to go to Moscow and St Petersburg.

How do they treat Asians, any impressions?

Hi Wizard:
No real impressions from my end. I am white, so i am not really qualified to talk to this issue. From what I saw though, there are few "non whites" overall in Russia. The english press in Moscow was talking about the crack down on the ethnic owners of small grocery stores and the attacks that they had been victims of - but there are other issues at work in this case as well.

Overall, I get the sense that they may not be as open as other countries, but that is purely a general comment. When it comes to the girls, can't say. I got to believe though, money is money and it is unlikely that they would necessarily discount someone willing to fork over the $$.

Stay safe!
AHT169

Sorry couldn't be of more help.

[Aht169]

Aht169,

Thanks for the joyful report. I just remember my first time in Moscow. I shared the similar feelings and thoughts.

I was standing in the middle of Red Square where all the glorious victory ceremonies took place. Undefeatable Red Army was marching and the high commissioners of the communist party were watching the parade.

And unforgettable natural beauty of the Russian women.


And unforgettable natural beauty of the Russian women ~~~aaaahhhhhh

LONG SIGH!!!

[Doctor_Skank]

Not only the sheer beauty... but rather the other qualities of Russian women are essential to their appeal to us...

they are wild
they enjoy sex
they inexplicably actually let us have sex with them

"We're not worthy!"
:)

Imagine a Russia where the women are super beautiful but ice cold and untouchable. Wouldn't be the same, would it?

Thankfully they aren't cold but passionate and hot beneath their somewhat cool demeanor.

This is not only true in terms of real relationships, but also for pro sex. I've had numerous nights with pros that were beyond mere sex, but transcended the boundary between client and provider into something more intimate. It can happen elsewhere as well (speaking from experience I've had great Thais and Brazilians), but every time I get a cold dud in Russia it surprises me, as it is so rare. Most providers are at least a 7 in performance, many 8s and 9s.

Rating looks is relative, I find most pros I select to be in the 7-8 category. 9s are rare, but available to the patient hunter and interestingly enough, found at all price levels $100-300+.

Although I love the pros that get juiced up really quick and are making out with you in the taxi, just as interesting are the ones that are cool and quiet on the ride home, but as soon as you are alone they become passionate sex demons and give so much of themselves to you, I am often astounded by the amount of intimacy they present us. What an amazing gift, Sometimes I think especially the seasoned EE mongers have to be careful and not forget what paradise we are allowed to play in.

Aht169, your "Moscow Newbie" report was great, I think it reminded a lot of the veterans here about the joy they first felt on their initial trips to Russia. You really made the most of your opportunity and got really lucky with your Tverskaya score. I've met dozens and dozens of girls on Tverskaya and never met a pro, even though sometimes you see girls on Tver you'd love to fuck at almost any price. :(

BTW, thanks for keeping prices down. $200 is a fair Moscow price for the service she gave... even if she was from Pitr! I am really looking forward to my nexy Moscow journey, I'll try to rediscover the city again... :)

Winter's coming... mongering season for me begins... :)

By the way Aht169, I hope you've done some clever financial planning, Russian women have a way of becoming an expensive addiction... :)

[Aht169]

Doctor:
Very well said. I think more than anything (even though I had read about it) was the intense and truly GFE of my encounter. No question she was a pro, but not like one I have ever experienced. Nothing will ever be quite the same.

As for the chance meeting on Tver., chalk it up to beginners luck! To be honest, had she not been a little aggressive, I would not have had this great experience. I think I was at the right place at the right time, without even realizing it. It was enough to give a flavor for what this city has to offer and to ensure I figure out how to return.

As for the financial planning - oh yeah! it is under way. I am going to have to get creative, but that is what all those points, miles, and such are for. At least that will help defray some of the cost. In any case, I have started planning my own trip, and am working on my boss to see if I can't arrange another critical "Business" trip in the near future! One way or another, I will make it back to this wonderful city.

What the hell, it has truly spoiled me!

Stay Safe!
AHT169

[It Travel]

doc,

i agree totally… the difference between russian, or generally former soviet, girls and others is really big!
of course most of them are blonde, white as china bone, well built… but it’s not that. it is how they get you in bed! some are perhaps normal and nicely naïve (mostly teens), some are really devils: thinking to some friends like diana, valentina, mystery tramp, [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901), yana…. but still you get enormous feed back in real gfe.

i mind a time i had “ordered” valentina in moscow, for one of our usual heavy anal sessions, evening, night, plus a couple of missionary anal in the morning… it must hurt a 21 y.o. girl!
i was eating at a restaurant and saw her on the street, she was going to the market near my hotel. so i just said from the door: valentina! and she came, we took some food, we went together to the market, made her shopping, and even some food for the night! so it happened that we got in bed at 7 pm and she left around 10 am (at that time thanks viagra!). all the evening was cuddling, kissing, and of course taking her little hole. but even eating, joking, looking tv, and having fun. never spoke on money at all, for the time she got (not asked) 50 bucks more… and it was all.

[CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901) in ukraine is even better. it’s like going taking a drink with a friend, then taking her home to show your “butterfly collection” and then seduce her, get her horny and wet in the bed… just like friends… and in the morning after a lot of sex ohh! i’m late i have to go to work! and you discretely handle over what was decided in a chat.

i know it’s a big illusion… but i had girls for free too, and i could have them now… the problem is that i desperately fell in love with one, and i will not repeat the mistake. if i get a pro, ok, if i get a little drunk teen just wanting some sex and luxury for some days ok, if i get a sponsored ok, but no real things… it’s not on ground i have a family (i do not), i met russian girls, specially tatar ones (tall, blondes, with asian green eyes! … and a couple of degrees in a real university!), where you could live your hearth totally, for the life.

it

[Suffering Snakes]

Hey guys,

I am new to Moscow.

Can any body tell me which are good full stripbars?

Any experience you can share would be wonderful.

[Big Bro AJ]

Hey guys,

I am new to Moscow.

Can any body tell me which are good full stripbars?

Any experience you can share would be wonderful.


My personal favorite was MisterXXX on Nowy Arbat, but that place was sucks in July. It lost the notion we felt in our previous visits. But still a nice joint to party. I highly recommend the young blondey with DD Cups; if she still works, definitely take her home.

And Spearmint Rhino on Nowy Arbat is an American style strip club. We accidentally enter the girls dressing room and bouncers did nothing. They are too tolerant on expats.

Also Shandra was a great place for private parties, but I don’t know it’s new name.

I found Oh La La and Safari as meat markets, but if you are interested in easy and quick f**k, than you need to make a visit…

Kamasutra, 911 and Dolls are ridiculously expensive and girls are cocksure…

109’s report was the bible for strip clubs in Moscow…

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=381135&postcount=2893

[Big Bro AJ]

I have a dilemma to find a solution before December 1.

One of my friend, who owns a casino invited me to Romania. This will be my first time.

But I was planning to go to Moscow for the X-MAS and 10 days long New Year holiday. I was in Moscow in 2005 New Year. And this year, we are planning to throw a wilder party with my blood brother .

On the other hand, I have never been to Romania but my girlfriend has been there several times and speaks fluent Romanian (together with other 4 languages).

Has anyone been to Romania during the New Year? If you need to make a decision, which one do you prefer? Moscow or ski resort in Romania???

[Gentleman Travel]

Part One: Shopping for Sex

It was the breast of times, in was the *****st of times, it was the age of womanizing, it was the age of foolishness, it was the Spring of hope, it was the Fall of 2007… okay, okay, I will just get on with my tale of chasing tail in two cities – Kyiv and Moscow!

This was a long overdue trip, which originally I had thought would occur about a year ago but was twice rescheduled. The downside of that was the many torturous months of anticipation. The upside was that I discovered the ISG forum in the interim, which provided me with essential information and guidance.

I had never been to Moscow before and to Kyiv only once, where because of various constraints on my behaviour (in addition to my complete naiveté), my exploits were limited to poking one moderately skanky hotel girl in thigh-high white leather boots. Oh, and staying up all night on the Odessa-Kyiv train trying to talk my way into the bed of the bar waitress, a strategy fatally flawed by the fact that she spoke no English and I spoke no Russian.

My report will mostly be of interest to other newbies like myself, with no Russian language skills and minimal “game”. For background info, I am 49, ten pounds overweight, medium everything, and on the budget-conscious side of the great wallet divide. It also applies more for those looking to combine pursuit of pleasure with a business trip, than those who can devote their time and attention exclusively to hunting native poon.

In fact, combining business and pleasure was one my underlying strategies. I reasoned that if I could find the right girl, I could “hire” her as my interpreter during the day, and find other uses for her talented tongue each night! This worked to a certain extent, but was not the incentive plan I hoped it would be.

My first stop was Kyiv, where I had long been in communication with lovely young Valeria, whom I recruited off a bridal web-site. She seemed willing to serve as my guide and translator for me during the day and speak the language of love at night. In fact, I had been in touch with her for almost a year, since my first expected trip, which is far too long for talking to these girls.

It erodes your credibility to spin it out for so long, like you are not really serious (and they get lots of arm-chair Romeos contacting them on the web) or (worse) that you are not in control of your own fate. At the same time, it takes at least a few weeks to get through to these girls and build up some level of interest. Many of them do not have daily access to computers and have lots of messages to wade through from dating sites, so it may take a while to establish yourself as a serious contender worthy of prompt response.

Anyway, I had Valeria lined up and was willing to spend all my (quite limited) time with her. I know many guys on here believe that variety is the spice of life, and I do not disagree, but I wanted a sure thing and also preferred to get laid morning, noon and night this way, rather than spending all my time out hunting, and maybe coming home empty-handed. I was also able to use Valeria to find me an apartment and coordinate some meetings and meet me at the airport. She was not as reliable as I would have liked, but ultimately she did come through for me – in every way!

She met me at the airport and was almost as cute as pictured. She is 22, petite, brunette with a innocent/sexy face and low-riding tight jeans. She had arranged for the apartment agent to provide the airport transfer, which is a really good way of doing it, and took me to our apartment, a huge two-bedroom place ($150) just below the Maidan. The building and lobby were crappy, but the apartment itself was pretty good, as these things go, and the location was convenient.

In the early days I had made it quite clear to Valeria that I was there to mix business and pleasure, but we had never come to any precise arrangement. I was assuming that in addition to the straight business interpreter fee ($50 per day) I would pay her something additional each night (maybe a similar amount), plus wining and dining and some shopping (there had been specific mention of shoe-shopping). But our more recent emails had not been very romantic, so I was a little unclear on where we stood and what she was expecting from me. So I was pleasantly surprised when she stood in the middle of the apartment and said that she was mine for the next few days and what did I want to do?

Well, I wanted to eat and to lay in some supplies. So we postponed pleasure for a few more hours of business and picked up some wine and some things for breakfast – always a good sign. We went out to her favourite restaurant (“Swing” - a really nice place) and we came back to “our apartment” for après supper treats!

With a fair bit of wine inside her and very little prompting, she revealed that what she really wanted was:
a) to be tied up and forcibly taken
b) to play virginal/naughty school girl
c) to pretend to be a cheap slutty hooker who would do ANYTHING for $20
d) to join me in a threesome with a big-breasted blonde!

This conversation of course is all taking place in bed as I fuck her, so I am figuring this is a pretty good date so far, by my standards. I mean, what’s not to like? Okay, so I am not into bondage, but the rest of the list I a willing to help her out with! She asks what my fantasies are and all I can add is fucking a cute 22 year-old, which I am doing at that very moment! Remembering Dr. Skank’s sage advice, I finish up having her give me a BBBJ CIM, to establish her place in the food chain.

While this sounds like heaven, and much of it is, there is a downside – tiny tits. This girl has the flattest chest I have ever seen on anyone past puberty. She is really cute and sexy, and a nice body and great legs but these tiny tits. Frankly this makes it hard for me to get the heart really pumping. The upside is that pretending her tits are fine and tasty and playing with them really drives her wild!

The other problem is that we have had too much to drink. This was great while it was fuelling the fantasy discussion, but not quite as good when it comes to going a second round, or to getting a decent night’s sleep. And then in the morning she was too hung over for fun and had to go home to mother to sleep it off and get some medicine. I tried to get the Jacuzzi going, but to no avail – another good lesson – just because an apartment is equipped with something, does not mean it works.

That evening is shopping time. We start out looking for a school-girl skirt, but end up getting a more practical (but still sexy) outfit. So this turns out to be the deal – shopping for sex. That’s what she gets out of the relationship – shopping – and in exchange I get sex. This is okay with me, because I like the idea of a quasi-girlfriend experience more than straight P4P.

The only problem is, this is a bit too much like a real girlfriend experience. I mean, in my experience, girlfriends are not all sexy lingerie and good-morning blow-jobs. The same is true with Valeria – she is moody and wants to sleep when I want to play and so on. She is not as clingy and demonstrative in her affection as I hoped she would be, nor as appreciative of the things I buy her, as she should be.

The next day I had to go out of town all day on a business trip and she refused to join me, because of the danger. Okay, going to Chernobyl is not everyone’s idea of a fun date. Still, this really pissed me off, because one of the reasons I wanted to use her as my interpreter in the first place, was because she has an academic background that would be useful in my work, and justifies me hiring her over any other girl and even bringing her along on trips to other cities. I had envisioned her keeping me warm in remote places or on long train rides to inspect facilities. Now the first time I ask her to join me on one of these trips she chickens out. This does not bode well. Even in FSU countries, young and nubile nuclear physicist fuck-bunnies are not a dime a dozen!

That evening we played “cheap hooker”, but without the benefit of alcohol to lubricate things it was not as wildly exciting as it should have been. Still, spanking her while she sucked me vigorously was a new and enriching experience for me! We never did get shoe-shopping so I gave her some shoe money, which actually made her a moderately expensive hooker.

The next day is another business meeting, this time with Valeria along as my official interpreter, and she does a good job of it and I think is beginning to feel comfortable in this role. Then it’s off to the airport and farewell kisses.

So overall, Valeria was a bit of a disappointment. She was cute and sexy and compliant and has some great fantasies I would like to take advantage of, but with her little tits and lack of real enthusiasm, I am not sure she is worthwhile.

And the cost-benefit analysis was not where I wanted it to be – I probably could have had better sex for less money if I had simply called up GIA every night. Also, I never did get to River Palace, which I wanted to experience!

Still, I may continue to use her for business purposes, but next time I will not plan on using her as my main fuck-bunny. However, the idea of bringing her along to help me troll for a big-breasted blonde has a lot of appeal…

... stay tuned for Part Two: Drunken Dyevs at the Hungry Duck!

[Felix Nordic]

Thats a good, well written and honest I report and I salute that! Very interesting real life experiences and youre close to winning the nobel price of litterature as well! ;)

We all learn from our experiences and its really a hit and miss. But you have to try and you might strike gold!

Cheers and happy hunting!

/Felix

[CharlieH]

Great writing style, GT.

You were saying it would've been cheaper had you used GIA's service everyday than with Valeria? How much did you pay Val?

I hope this trip turn out to be a far, far better thing that you do, than you have ever done.........:-)

[Piper1]

The only problem is, this is a bit too much like a real girlfriend experience. I mean, in my experience, girlfriends are not all sexy lingerie and good-morning blow-jobs. The same is true with Valeria – she is moody and wants to sleep when I want to play and so on. She is not as clingy and demonstrative in her affection as I hoped she would be, nor as appreciative of the things I buy her, as she should be.GT - great to see you finally made it to Moscow! Our plans to meet up and gate-crash the singles-social dinner didn't pan out for July, but I was hoping to read about your success. Instead you GF'd in Moscow!

I ended up in Paris instead of Moscow, and did exactly the same thing. Lots of emails back and forth, then ended up with a stunning hot exotic girl who took the tunnel train from London for the weekend. Just like yours, mine was also occasionally GF-moody also, as if we'd been together a year. And yes, it would have been cheaper to pick up a WG instead. She was happy with the ticket, meals, sightseeing and a bit of shopping. She told me she was a lawyer, but I didn't believe her. Why would a lawyer from London join a stranger for the weekend? 'Cos she's crazy. I googled her name, and sure enough, she's a prosecutor.

You have to admit, though, despite the down-sides of the three-day non-pro GFE, it's a nice change from the usual one-nighters with a WG! I've done this twice in the past two years (last year was a 21 y.o. Parisian student of Arabic background who took the train to join me in Amsterdam. I still hear from her - she wants to come to Dubai.

I'm doing some internet prep for another "travelling companion" experience as we speak. But now I'll read a few of your latest roving reports ...

[Norm Paska]

Can someone please recommend some brothels or bordello in Moscow. Preferably something upscale and nice. I am shcedule for business trip in Dec., but should not bring any girls back to my hotel. Simply I do not want my business associates to see me witht hem. Thus I want to be discreet. Thank you very much.

Borat

[Gentleman Travel]

Great writing style, GT.

You were saying it would've been cheaper had you used GIA's service everyday than with Valeria? How much did you pay Val?

I hope this trip turn out to be a far, far better thing that you do, than you have ever done.........:-)

Charlie, it depends on how you look at it:

two days interpreting @ $50 = $100
welcome present - perfume = $ 50
clothes shopping = $200
shoe shopping (cash) = $200
two nice dinners out @ $100 = $200

So total cash outlay for 3 nights = $750

But the interpreting was a legitimate expense that I would have incurred anyway, as were the dinners (more or less), so the marginal cost was more like $450, and part of that was subsidized as additional interpreter expenses.

And from Valeria's point of view, she earned her interpreter fees, and the rest was just what a girl deserves from her man, so she did not get paid for sex at all (except for the $20 as part of the "cheap hooker" game)!

So maybe GIA would have worked out more expensive, once all the add-ons were factored in...

GT

[Piper1]

So total cash outlay for 3 nights = $750. The experience, the fun, the adventure and the memories = forever. Can't beat that.

[Gentleman Travel]

Can someone please recommend some brothels or bordello in Moscow. Preferably something upscale and nice. I am shcedule for business trip in Dec., but should not bring any girls back to my hotel. Simply I do not want my business associates to see me witht hem. Thus I want to be discreet. Thank you very much.

Borat

Another option is to simply order "room service", which permits a discrete, in-hotel option. Of course, it means you are limited to the hotel girls available, but the upper end of these can be passable.

I suppose it depends what hotel you are staying at, but in many older Russian hotels, you may actually get phone calls from the hotel girls when you turn in for the night (sometimes the key lady passes them information). Otherwise a discrete word with a doorman, barman or bellhop should get one, or a selection of girls, sent up to your room.

You don't get the best selection and they are over-priced, but it is safe and convenient.

GT

[Suffering Snakes]

Hi Guys,

Anybody tried girls from website:

http://publichouse.nu/searchgirl_eng.php

Are they genuine or fake pics, and by the way what does it means by appartment.

Does it means the girls appartment and r they safe?

If anybody has some experience pls share.

SS

[Doctor_Skank]

SS:

The pictures are usually real, just as they are on www.dosug.nu, however the pictures are often outdated and often they just represent a standard slavic type girl. For example, if blonde Masha worked from a particular apartment 3 years ago and since left, her picture may still be up and when you come there will be a replacement blonde that looks vaguely similar... maybe better, maybe worse. You can always call and ask if the pictures are real. Whether or not the operator will tell you the truth is another question. You should also use your best judgement when viewing the pictures. Supermodels and playboy models don't fuck for $70/hour. Some of the pros have more miles on them than their photos suggest. Obviously the pictures have been photoshopped a bit and are taken under studio conditions.

"Apartment" means the girl works in an apartment. Sometimes she really is the only girl there working privately, most often however she shares the apartment with other prostitutes in a brothel-like setting.

It's not my favorite method of p4p because it lacks the intimacy and privacy of your own apartment or hotel room, but it is the cheapest method of p4p in Moscow. It's also good for those unable to bring girls back to hotels for whatever reasons.

Primary disadvantage is that the apartments are often hard to find if you don't have much experience looking for addresses in Russia. Usually they are in some apartment block somewhere and there are not any distinct markings beyond the normal address. Every apartment building has several entrances for example, sometimes of all 4 sides of the building. Often operators will only speak Russian and not be able to help much with directions in English.

The apartments themselves are safe and usually clean. Can't guarantee that the area around the apartment buildings are safe though, especially at night. That is unpredictable. If the apartment is in the center of the city, inside the garden ring that is, it should be fine though.

Ordering outcall and having the girl come to you, called "Viezd", is easier. Costs a bit more and you do run the risk of having a completely different girl show up, but it might save you some hassle... especially if you aren't experienced with finding Russian addresses. If she is coming to you, make sure you know YOUR address. Your address is more than just a house number... know your entrance, apartment number etc. And give her your phone number in case you have to meet her at the street. Don't be surprised if she comes with a male "bodyguard" who is there to check your apartment to make sure its safe for the girl. Usually if they see a harmless foreigner, the won't bother looking. Often the girls arrive with no escort, especially if your address is in the center.

There is actually quite a bit written on the apartment scene in the Moscow thread and also in the reports of distinction thread you'll find some excellent reports.

Personally I feel that too much emphasis is put on "are the pictures real". Obviously we try to avoid obvious "bate and switch" traps, but this game isn't like ordering from amazon.com... more like eBay... :)

You have to just try. If you don't like what you find, don't pay and look elsewhere. That's the reality of apartment girls and escorts.

[Suffering Snakes]

Thanks a lot Doc Skank.

Which website you prefer?

SS

[Gentleman Travel]

i just wanted to report on using my blackberry in russia.
i found it a very useful tool for staying connected to e-mail and the web, without having to lug around a laptop or look for internet connections.

the downloading speed was just as good in ukraine and russia as back home.

accessing web-sites can be awkward, compared with a real computer, but with a little practice and tolerance, you can navigate around most sites.

i could not access every area of some password restricted sites, for reasons i never determined, but it was the same at home, so you can test drive what you are going to have access to and what you are not. certainly i could access red club and escort sites, while some dating sites had roadblocks.

a neat add-on application available is a "talking phrasebook" in russian, or many other languages, by handango/beiks. this is a $30 download that translates certain phrases for you, giving you a pronounciation key and speaking them for you!

unfortunately, they gave me the wrong downloading instructions on my trial version and the speaking part did not work when i was in russia - i only got it to work after i got back!

this has a pretty basic vocabulary of a few hundred common words and phrases, but even that can be helpful for someone like me who has no ear or memory for languages - you can use the device to practice a phrase just before going out, or having to use it. i am not sure how useful it would be in actually speaking for you - i suppose when you are really in a bind you might be able to use it to order a drink or ask a simple question.

i think the best use for this device would be as a novelty. a gimmick to lighten up conversations with dyevs in bars ("breaks the ice at parties, nudge, nudge, wink, wink!"), demonstrating useful phrases like:
"are you waiting for someone?"
"may i get you a drink?"
"what's your telephone number?"
"what is the price per night?"
"do you have any specials?"
"i'm in a hurry."
"thank you, it has been a wonderful evening!"
"may i take you home?"
"where is the nearest pharmacy?"

i think it would have been a hoot if i had been able to play some of these phrases to my blonde friends, one of whom spoke almost no english, so it was a real strain including her in the conversation.

i gather there are much more sophisticated purpose-built speaking translator machines available, but as a cheap download for an existing toy, this strikes me as worthwhile.

gt

[Slipgear43]

Anyone have any luck with this site for dating or meeting i have tried to give out my email to them after buying roses but still get no reply from them is this site a scam.

[Gentleman Travel]

Anyone have any luck with this site for dating or meeting i have tried to give out my email to them after buying roses but still get no reply from them is this site a scam.

I have never belonged to that site, but I did research it a bit, and I have heard a lot of people call it a scam site. I think Anastasia is more in the business of selling romance tours and flowers than in internet matchmaking.

A good clue is that they don't let you talk directly to the woman, all communications go through a middleman. You cannot even tell if the girls are active on that site.

On a good (legitimate) site:
- you can tell if a girl is on-line, or when she signed in last
- you can get a girl's email, phone and address directly when you pay a fee
- the girls have their partner-age preferences clearly stated
- girls can contact you by fixed messages or winks or full messages
- a girl's English level is clearly stated

If you really want a "bride" site, I would suggest trying elenasmodels.com
They seem to have a lot of sincere "looking for my other half" ladies (although there are certainly some "good time girls" and golddiggers there too).
Of course, this is not quite as good if you are not sincere in your intentions...

Cheers,

GT

p.s. You should not be buying roses for anyone you are not already in communications with. That is a pretty expensive way to develop relations!

[Big Bro AJ]

I am looking for a kind of Russian Viagra. It’s in a form of rose and in different colors. Very affective and minimum side effects. It has been produced in Russia. It’s a pep pill.

I don’t know its name; I didn’t see any symbols or signs. The pill itself has a rose form; it’s smaller than an aspirin.

Viagra cause minor headaches, insomnia and I fell hot inside. But this one seemed no side effects.

Has anyone heard something about this pill???



GT,

I also use Blackberry; what about the roaming fee. How much did they charge?

[Lust 7]

I travel to EE alot, with Russia perhaps being the top spot. Here I have meet, pros, and semi pros. My general question is do these women enjoy their job? and to what extent? I think many of these girls sleep with 100s of guys. Is it all pure cash or is fun, like it is for us to sleep with lots of strange women? I think in men its nature; but, perhaps for some women they really enjoy it? Or maybe not really?

[Helena Moscow]

I travel to EE alot, with Russia perhaps being the top spot. Here I have meet, pros, and semi pros. My general question is do these women enjoy their job? and to what extent? I think many of these girls sleep with 100s of guys. Is it all pure cash or is fun, like it is for us to sleep with lots of strange women? I think in men its nature; but, perhaps for some women they really enjoy it? Or maybe not really?


It's both cash and fun. Almost every client thinks that he is a good one but the rest of our clients are ugly and treat us badly. This is not so. Clients treat us same way as any other men who don't know about our job. Some of clients become good friends, some not, just like normal life. Every human being likes sex, and we are not exception. We have more sex than others and it's various, often of better quality than married women have. It's very convenient idea for men that only men like to change partners, but women are happy with one. Yes, in relationships we prefer monogamy. But it's absolutely nonsense when we speak about people who are not comitted to anyone. When a woman has not a permanent partner with who she is completely happy and satisfied she will search him the same way as men do, even if she is not a pro. If a pro finds such a life-partner she will the most probably quit her job. When you are free, no matter man or woman you are, your sexual life belongs to you, noone can judge. And it's always better have more sex than little.

[Dinghy]

Big Bro - sildenafil is sildenafil (whether made in FSU or where ever) If you get headaches with Vitamin V or the generic version, you will get headaches with the Pycckee version as well. There is no "pep" in sildenafil (whatever) - it's a blood flow regulator.

[Lust 7]

Helena Moscow: Thank you for the clear honest reply. With very few exceptions, the women in EE seem educated, polite and really to enjoy being with someone who treats them with respect, regardless with its for business or pleasure or both. I was just hoping; and you seemed to confirm it, that for the most part these women get pleasure from their job.

[SlutLover]

Helena Moscow: Thank you for the clear honest reply. With very few exceptions, the women in EE seem educated, polite and really to enjoy being with someone who treats them with respect, regardless with its for business or pleasure or both. I was just hoping; and you seemed to confirm it, that for the most part these women get pleasure from their job.Helena's statement is interesting. The level of enjoyment obviously depends on the partner, quite possibly more so for girls than for men, though I may be incorrect. Personally, I have always preferred girls that love sex, or, in fact, are crazy for it (although I have to say that not every human being loves sex, there are frigid ones, too!), and for me "****" as in my nick does not carry a negative connotation; in fact, a positive one!

Generally, at least in Moscow, I have found that even in relationships that were mostly based on good sex the girl almost always tried to establish a monopoly, and that not just for fear of contracting an STD, to the point that she might demand all or nothing even if she was clearly having a good time as it stood. I have the impression that in Moscow (and even more so in the rest of Russia, which is more conservative), the concept of a "fuck buddy" is less accepted than in Britain or the States.

[Big Bro AJ]

I have been mongering in 3 continents with too many women. I have spent over hundred thousands $s.Since I have moved to my home country, I have had closer relations with Russian and other EE women. I am a frequent flyer to Moscow.

My girl friend worked as an upscale escort over 6 years. Actually I was one of her clients. First, we became friends, than we became close friends and finally we decided to become life long friends and now we are living together.

I was very very active on mongering and still continue mongering but very very limited; she knows me well and I know her past. She quit working in last October. She is an educated (actually has a law degree), confident, powerful, beautiful woman in her mid 20s.

But, two months ago, I almost bankrupted, and because of other incidents, she has to start escorting again. My girl friend, our cats, three more girls and I live together like a big family. The others are also working; they are in their early 20s, all beautiful and busty ladies. I confess that I have seen them as my stepsisters. They are walking around half naked; they love to dress low-cut but not sulty. Except Ira (she is my girlfriends best friend and both are bisexual), I have never touched them and even when I saw them naked in shower, I just ignore their sexuality and walked away.

No one can understand the dilemma what I live. A woman that you truly love more than everything. A woman that you dreamed a future with her is an upscale escort.

I ran away from home when she got dress for program. I couldn’t stand there and watched her doing her make up or wearing the lingerie that I bought her.

At the beginning, I couldn’t kiss her I couldn’t make love with her, because I knew that a stranger touched her, kissed her and made love with her. I couldn’t take it. But after several heated talks with my girl friend. I learned to accept it.

At first I started to see other girls when she was on program. I tried to deceive myself. I am the one who was cheating; therefore she had rights to do it. But I realized that I am only fooling myself.

I am a double Scorpio, sex is part of my life and she loves sex. We have skin and mind connection. She is Orthodox and I am a Deist. Our relation becomes stronger and stronger each day.

But, I still can’t stay home when she is away…


PS: For the ones who think that they please the escorts. That is a big lie that we man wanted to believe. These girls make sex with more than one guy in a day. Most of them control themselves not to have orgasms or have fake orgasms.

[Lust 7]

Big brother Al, No one is casting stones, your honesty is amazing. I myself would both date and even marry a prostitute because love sees with the heart and not with the eyes, especially with the eyes of judgment. Dante classifies lust as the least of the deadly sins. It’s the closest to heaven as it is misdirected love. Those who have this inordinate desire they resides in purgatory just one step from heaven (take this metaphorically as I do not want to incite a morality of prostitution discussion here). However, that does not mean its 100% ok. There is a price to pay for our actions; we are all condemned to live in our own self made purgatories. Once you have opened this door it’s hard to close it. Believe me I know! And we spend so much money and time and hurt our own chances of having true love as we always want more.

Living as a ***** monger or a ***** is an addictive lifestyle. I think both parties derive pleasure and enjoyment out of it. Some, like your girlfriend perhaps only connected with financial reward so she can survive, and does not get physical enjoyment. However, I would rein ternate that I believe most *****s do enjoy their job. And I mean that physically. Or they would not do that job. I have lived and traveled in EE-Moscow and I understand its poor, but it’s not that poor. Its not Africa or Asia or South America. Even without training I know many girls who teach English or Russian or foreign guys and make a lot, or even sell things in the market (why do you not help your girl teach languages (I am not judging but maybe it’s a way out))? You can survive in EE without whoring.

So I do not believe money is the only reason women do this. Its fun for them no matter what they say, because actions speak louder than words.

[Big Bro AJ]

You may call what ever you want but I have never use the expressions such as hooker, prostitution or w***e. I find them very insulting. Escort or company has an elegant sound. We are not talking about women who offer BJ for $50.

Each country has it’s own realities. %95 of the EE origin girls have a financial problem, that’s why they start escorting at the beginning. An attractive girl can easily make $2000-4000 per month. If she has talents or she is a stunner than double the number. But if she stays in her hometown, she tries to find a job for $50 per week.

Yes, there are some escorts that they love and enjoy what they are doing. After a while they get use to it.

[Doctor_Skank]

Lust7:

Sure girls can survive in EE without "whoring", but it's a source of quick "serious" cash. Making $300 a night a couple nights a week easily gets a girl a few thousand a month, allowing her to enter social circles where she might meet other generous men or "get ahead in life". I think for many girls, it's just a way to make some easy cash without having to "really" work. Especially uneducated girls or girls with academic educations in fields that Russian society doesn't value enough to pay well (teachers, scientists etc.) turn to a source of easy cash and I certainly don't think we have the right to judge them on this. In the US we have a great term, "wage wh0re", meaning people who work a job they don't like but have to for cash. I think it puts things into perspective.

One thing is for sure, and I hope most mongers agree, as long as the pro treats us with respect, we treat them with respect.

I know the word wh0re is insulting to some, but a recent trip to Night Flight made me reactivate the word in my vocabulary. Those girls were horrible vulture wh0res. They only showed respect to $ and €, so they don't get mine... neither my cash nor my respect. I am not talking about trying to cheap charlie them into a $100 fuck, but insulting people because they expect more than 2-3 hours for $500 is just whorish. There has to be some balance in the equation for me, otherwise it's just cold business.

[Big Bro AJ]

Thanks to DOC the mentor…He reminds me the reality behind the facts. I love mongering and can’t imagine a life without it. I manage to live and experience both sides and that’s why I might be sensitive in some issues.

Couple months ago, I read a book about 32 years old professor who used to do escorting to pay her bills.


Any way, DOC, you are totally right about the NF girls. They don’t deserve a cent actually. They worship $ and €.

[Lust 7]

I am very sorry that I used the "w” word. I did not know it was offensive, I was ignorant or at least not sensitive. I think one of the worst things you can do in this life is disrespect someone.

When I am living in Moscow I make money two ways, teaching English or selling things in the Market. I could make more working for a company; however, it’s a free lifestyle and pretty good cash. I only mentioned it as alternatives to women prostituting themselves because I know how addictive it is for both sides. I have spent a fortune on women, both paying directly and indirectly. Even so I can not break the habit. The women in Russia are so beautiful and have such class and education its too tempting not to sleep with them. Even when I give it up for a while I am always thinking about it. I did not mean to disrespect you in anyway or the women who work in this job.

[Helena Moscow]

I have the impression that in Moscow (and even more so in the rest of Russia, which is more conservative), the concept of a "fuck buddy" is less accepted than in Britain or the States.

Right impression. This concept goes wrong with our mentality and we were all shocked when it was brought by foreigners. Now women try to adjust to new situation, because almost no choice is left. We can't pretend any more that fuck-buddy-relationships don't exist. I always feel very sad when my friends “decent girls” tell me how they thought they were in relationships with a nice guy and finally discovered that the nice guy just used them as a fuck-buddy. Nobody worned them: "We are just fuck-buddies, don't make plans for the future". They discovered in the end. To my mind it's much less stress to be a pro, because the attitude is the same (to tell you the truth I think it's better, because I never got so much shit from my clients as normal girls say they get from their boyfriends), plus we receive money and the game is honest.



To Big Bro: “PS: For the ones who think that they please the escorts. That is a big lie that we man wanted to believe. These girls make sex with more than one guy in a day. Most of them control themselves not to have orgasms or have fake orgasms.” – It is true that we are in control and often imitate orgasms. But non-escort women imitate orgasms, too. With their boy-friend, husbands and whoever. Not all men are good at sex, but all men want to be sure that they are good enough for their partner. If woman doesn’t give him such a confidence, he will go for another who will. All women know this and all women lie from time to time. Because for us sex is not so important as keeping good relationships. Even with a good partner sex is not on the same level all the time - sometimes better, sometimes worse. But because escorts have more partners and more sex, they have more chances to get a real orgasm by accident. Anyway, you managed to please your girlfriend somehow, and you were one of the clients. So… I hope your situation with her will soon go back to normal. She must be really very much in love with you if she didn’t break relationships when she had to return to work. It must be very hard, have no idea how she manages. You are in a hard situalion, too, of course. But hold on, friend, life tends to get better.


To Lust 7 “However, I would rein ternate that I believe most *****s do enjoy their job. And I mean that physically. Or they would not do that job.” – When the Soviet Union broke I began to work as an escort and soon came into some money. I had a friend from school. She was always very short of money, and once she got desperate. I offered her a client. A good one, for a very hight price for that time. She met the client and he liked her. But she was absolutely unable to do anything with him. Instead she began to cry like crazy. Later she said that she would better starve than fuck him for money. She could fuck him for free if met somewhere else, but not for money, not as a client. She never tried to repeat that experience. I think she considered prostitution a big sin. So there are women who can’t have sex for money at all, under no condition. And there are women who can. But being an escort involves some other things, besides sex and money. It has a lot to do with freedom and power. We know that many people disapprove our job and we still do it. To make a choice against the majority you need some degree of independence. Go further. We have many men and we can choose among the men. This makes us feel powerful. When you have a lot of clients you start think that the whole world wants you. Most of people don’t charge for sex and they still don’t have enough of it. We charge and we have more than we need. No wonder that most of escorts have megalomania in a light or a heavy form. Huge amount of men’s attention makes us sometimes totally mad. We can afford to leave a man any moment, because there is always another waiting. This makes us more demanding. Megalomania grows. We get several proposals to marry every month. We don’t even take them seriously. Plus we sleep long in the morning and don’t have to sit in offices. It was a fun part. There is a serious one, too. I tried to work for companies. I worked as a real estate agent, as a journalist (the most difficult and the worst paid job I ever done – don’t think I was a bad one, I wrote for a famous magazine and my fee was considered good for that sphere), as interpreter (everybody tries to fuck you for free) and god knows as who. It felt much worse and the money was never enough for living. I have a friend, my ex class-mate. She is a plastic surgeon and a breast cancer specialist. She makes from 700$ to 2000$ (in especially good months) and works for three clinics at the same time. For this she studied more than 13 years, she is a doctor of science now. During the 13 years of studies her income was not so “high”, but she could afford to work cheap, because her parents had a chance to help her. She is another example of a woman who would never become an escort, but her sexual life is also very specific: because she is so busy working, she has no time to get acquainted with men, so she fucks each one she can catch. Once she brought a beach-comber from Egypt. He didn't survive the Moscow frost. Probably being an escort would fix all her problems, but she is too refined for that. May be if I lived in West Europe or America, my reality would be different and good salary for proper working hours would make other jobs attractive. Or if I my father was an oligarh, I could do some low paid job as hobby and fuck a hundsome next-door guy for fun, or marry an ex class-mate or…. But if I didn’t become an escort at the beginning of 90th, I’d never be able to pay for my education (which is absolutely useless in sexual games, but makes my parents feel proud), I’d not have a place to live, my family with a little sister would probably dye from hunger when my parents (a scientist and engineer) after the crush of the USSR lost their incomes for about ten years (until they learned new professions). I know, many people think we are just hookers who open the legs. But these people never experienced what happened to us, and if they did, noone knows what way out they would find.

To Bez Bezarra: “I'd considered marrying a few of the hottest bad girls, they were so good in bed, they would have kept me from looking elsewhere to find
a kinky enough partner to do all the things many good girls dont want
to do. But who knows if they even wanted to settle down?” - =))))))). You should have asked. Most of escorts finally do settle down.

[Big Bro AJ]

To Big Bro: “So… I hope your situation with her will soon go back to normal. She must be really very much in love with you if she didn’t break relationships when she had to return to work. It must be very hard, have no idea how she manages. You are in a hard situalion, too, of course. But hold on, friend, life tends to get better.


To Lust 7 “But if I didn’t become an escort at the beginning of 90th, I’d never be able to pay for my education (which is absolutely useless in sexual games, but makes my parents feel proud), I’d not have a place to live, my family with a little sister would probably dye from hunger when my parents (a scientist and engineer) after the crush of the USSR lost their incomes for about ten years (until they learned new professions). I know, many people think we are just hookers who open the legs. But these people never experienced what happened to us, and if they did, noone knows what way out they would find.




Nobody understands what we feel as long as they live with it…

Thank you very much for your kind and realistic words.

I truly understand what you meant and what you have to live…

As I told to my girl friend, “You are a strong woman, even stronger than many men, very few can manage to live after what you have seen and experienced.”

Wish you all the BEST….

AJ

[Starchild2012]

Helena,

Hats off, It was a heart opening read...You have put everything into perspective, it felt soo deep, you really spoke from your heart.

Thanks soo much for opening up...

[Felix Nordic]

Helena!

Good input an thanks for that! In western media prostitutes are always victimised because of the feminism ruling the political scene. For sure there are abuses and really horrible stories of girls getting forced into prostitution. These sides of life you dont mention. But there are so many sides of prostitution thats its not possible to generalise and judge as the western politically correct media does. As the "freelancing" or good condtion prostitute its not that bad life as you describe. Just look at the FKK clubs in Germany where conditions are good and the customers get good service. I would say its the perfect form of prostitution. Safe and fun for all parts!

And if you take into consideration that this work is really benefiting the girls, because they finally have the chance to make a good salary without working their ass off. And a number of girls also have to shag with their boss to get a job and to get a better position in a company. And we easily forget the harsh living conditions in EE which really does make prostitution a tempting alternative. Provided its safe and not any forced slave labour! Girl should keep about 50 % and maybe you can confirm if its like this in general Helena? Could you also enlighten me if the seemingly private escort adds on internet is organised, or can a girl go and advertise for herself without the mob taking its share?

As for myself Im really getting away from the pro-scene since many payed girls dont deliver what they should. Bad service for a high price is such an awful combination for a conneseur! There are ofcourse truly wonderful exceptions as well, as for instance my mentioning of the FKK clubs.

I have to quote what one payed EE girl commented to a journalist; When I work as a prostitute i get sometimes beaten, but so does my boyfriends to me and atleast now I get money.

Cheers,
Felix

[Bez Bezarra]

It commen When prostitute get beaten by boyfriends.

I never beaten. It's not allowed.

select wrong people dangerous risk

my little pistol made mobs stay away.

It's easy to understand if a person can harm.



A little surprised someone who knows as much as you
sounds that naive about this.

Just like one person out of 13 million wins a lottery,
maybe you are the lotto winner of prostitutes that
never got a beating.

If mafia wants to harm you, gas pistol wont help you.

Small details and doubts aside, predicting your own safety
with someone you've only just met is ANYTHING but certain.

Almost any prostitute that gets beaten probably does NOT enjoy it.

Its likely that most prostitutes that got their first beating probably
thought that its "not allowed" to happen either, UNTIL it happen
to them.

[Felix Nordic]

Helena!

Thanks for your answer even if you missed, or didnt understand, most of my points!

Cheers!

//Felix

[Bez Bezarra]

my friends work with foreigners.

friends working with Russians never told me they were beaten.
I can' t even imagine such a situation.

we don't make so much money to be interesting mafia.

how a client can beat girl in hotel where security will
immediately enter in case of scream.

name of client is known, cameras on the floor.
After an accident the girl can go to the police.
I don't know foreigners who like trouble in Russia

I think "beaten prostitutes" is a fairy-tale.
what's the benefit of thinking this way.
keep your opinion if it makes you happy.



All prostitutes do not HAVE a choice to only have foreign
customers as do you and some friends. Outside of Moscow
and St Pitr, many prostitutes have no foreign customers at all.

Your other friends that do have russian customers, maybe if
they were beaten, they just don't speak about it to you. Its not
something to be proud of. And again, probably a lot of prostitutes
could not imagine such a thing, until it happens to them.

Mafia IS very interested in making money, that IS their business.
Mafia controls most prostitution in every country in the world.
Violence, and fear of it, is the foundation of their business success.

Not all prostitutes service customers in hotels. Screaming
will not protect you from a beating. You may not even have
a chance to scream.

Security will not always immediately enter. Bad people use
fake names. Some hotels don't have cameras. Many times police
don't care about prostitutes. Foriegn criminals don't care about
Russian police or any police. Because police get small pay, many
accept money from mafia to look the other way.

This is only a fairy tale if you live in fairyland. Thinking in reality
does benefit most people. My opinion is just my opinion, it gives
me no happiness, especially in this subject, one of the very darkest
we can even discuss.

[Helena Moscow]

Helena!

Thanks for your answer even if you missed, or didnt understand, most of my points!

Cheers!

//Felix

Felix, I didn't miss anything. Just you don't like my opinion, because it's too different from yours. You expected that I'd agree, but I didn't - that's all. Instead of saying that you disagree you try to put it as if I don't understand something. As well as Bez Bezarra. You only pretend that you are interested in the truth about escorts. But really you don't need to know anything, you just want to confirm the myphth you believe: that pros are lazy, stupid and beaten. Because keeping this illusion makes you feel cleverer and stronger. It's OK, I don't mind.

[Bez Bezarra]

Ok you know about our business since you were once in the detectives.



I've seen too many things that bad people do,
without needing to pretend.

Since apparently you have not, you really should
consider yourself quite fortunate.

[Starchild2012]

I think Moscow has more of an Asian sense of going around than western ways of life.

Russia is slowlly changing to western lifestyle, but still it is very much asian in many ways, here relationships are build and familes are given importance....people here get attached to others unlike in west as its either professional or personal.

if you go to thailand, philiphines and even in India where mongering oppoutunities are less...there may be 1 in a 1000 instance of prostitutes getting beaten or anything to do with harrasement...and hardly any bigger Mafia has any interest in thailand or philiphines sex business. The return they expect on the time they spend is not good enough for them. protitution does not earn them millions of dallars to maintain their lifestyle and most of all, that extra needed money to give to the goverment authorities.

Helena is right, prostitute are more free than we think they are and most of the times..there happiness quotient is much much more than ours.

The kind of profession they are in and the kind of people they meet everyday...even if they get beaten it is very very low and we compared to wife beating stories we have on oprah everyday....prostitutes getting beaten and harrssed should be negligible.