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BbqMushrooms
05-26-22, 13:54
Well, they're trying to pass a law (today) which will make advertising escort services illegal in print and online.
Will totally crumble the industry here in Spain, let's see what happens today.Thanks for sharing. This article goes in depth on the politics behind the move - https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/11/08/spain-prostitution-ban-pedro-sanchez-sex-work-feminism-human-rights-psoe-vox/.
Very surprising to see a social Democrat do something so stupid. And sad to hear that Spain might be moving backwards on this front even though they are so progressive otherwise.
Andalus Expat
05-26-22, 22:41
Well, they're trying to pass a law (today) which will make advertising escort services illegal in print and online.
Will totally crumble the industry here in Spain, let's see what happens today.They passed a law making cocaine illegal. And as you all know, it's now totally impossible to buy the stuff anywhere in Spain. Those people disappearing off to the toilets every five minutes just have weak bladders.
You can't buck markets. Where you have willing buyers & willing sellers the two will get together & trade. Whatever legislation Madrid gets into its fuzzy little mind to enact, you can sure there will surfeit of intelligence devoted to finding ways round it. They passed the same laws in France a while back. I know girls who are working in France, now. Paris & Rouen. I spoke with a rather up-market house in Lille not so long ago. They're still welcoming visitors. So's a similar one in Bordeaux. Haven't been to the Cote de Azure since well before Covidpanic but a pal lives there reckons he's having fun.
Yes things will change. And people will make adjustments. Like anything when it disappears below the visible horizon, information will be king. Just stay informed.
Andalus Expat
05-26-22, 22:51
I do know how to spell the name of that famous southern France resort coast correctly. It has a hyphen in it. Unfortunately if you attempt to get French spelling past the autocorrect function on this forum it comes out like this: Cote d'Azure. Strangely it will accept l'Azure.
They still have to pass the Spanish Senate before the law goes into effect from what I read. They added in advertising ban at the last minute, but I don't only if it only applies to physical advertisements, online ones, or both.
Mongerer88
05-27-22, 03:19
Well, they're trying to pass a law (today) which will make advertising escort services illegal in print and online.
Will totally crumble the industry here in Spain, let's see what happens today.I disagree.
Look at the website suffix of the very site you are on.
The Spanish advertisement sites will have to register in a different country.
It is a bit of a hassle, but not a huge big deal.
Almost all USA and Canadian escort advertisements and review websites are registered in friendly European jurisdictions.
GuyBrusg1957
05-27-22, 04:34
If I want to visit Spain for the girls, where should I go first? Madrid, Barcelona or Portugal?
What would you say is the difference?
Mongerer88
05-27-22, 04:59
If I want to visit Spain for the girls, where should I go first? Madrid, Barcelona or Portugal?
What would you say is the difference?Depends on what you are looking for, although they all have similarities.
On a price-adjusted basis, I think Lisbon is the best for a full hour of sex with an escort, particularly if outcall to your hotel room is your thing. Barcelona can be as good for escort outcall, but quite a bit more expensive. So the difference is more pronounced if you are in a budget.
Where I think Barcelona shines is its houses if "teens" as the Catalans call them. Going to a place like Vecinitas two or three times a day and getting BBBJ and CFS with inexpensive 30 or 45 minute sessions is a dream come true for guys from high-priced countries where the providers are older.
Madrid is the only one of the three cities with clubs like Vive (although that is not my thing, personally. Madrid is by far the strongest of the three for Russian and Ukrainian ladies. Two of the best looking ladies I have been with in my life were a Russian and a Polish lady in Madrid. Madrid is the only one of the three cities with much of a fetish scene, if you are into alt stuff.
Lisbon has the best rugged outdoor hiking of the three, although you need to expand your horizons to Sintra, the beaches west of Sintra, Cascais, and / or Setubal / Sesimbra to get the most from that. But with the hills, castles, and rugged beaches with dinosaur footprints, it can be an unforgettable place if you are an outdoorsman.
Madrid has the best arts / museum scene of the three by far. And the day trip by train options of Toledo and Segovia let you experience the best of Old Europe.
If you want to stay in one place without venturing too far, "downtown" Barcelona is better than downtown Madrid or Lisbon. The Gothic area, the two Gaudi Parks and his other buildings, most notably Sagrada Familia, and of course the beach and it's walking / biking trail, make you feel like you are on a great vacation the whole time.
It is really difficult to decide which of the three is the best. Personally, I prefer to rotate them.
If I want to visit Spain for the girls, where should I go first? Madrid, Barcelona or Portugal?
What would you say is the difference?Well first of all Portugal is not in Spain. In fact, it's a totally different country! LMAO!
Andalus Expat
05-27-22, 19:45
I disagree.
Look at the website suffix of the very site you are on.
The Spanish advertisement sites will have to register in a different country.
It is a bit of a hassle, but not a huge big deal.
Almost all USA and Canadian escort advertisements and review websites are registered in friendly European jurisdictions.As far as I know, it's not where domain's registered. It's the company operating behind it. Pasion. Es registered in Paris. I don't know where the servers are. Servers for my own website are rented in the US. There'd be nothing to prevent a website company operating in the US & sheltering under the 1st. Maybe one might be denied the. ES domain. So what?
This site shows what the problem would be. Remittances. How does an advertiser pay for an advert? ISG found the banking system wouldn't handle its membership remittances. They could do the same to remittances going to a company with a website targeting the Spanish market. No revenue stream, no company. Crypto? Imagine trying to explain crypto to putas with room temperature IQs. But the problem will no doubt be solved. There will be a lot of people working on it. There's good money in it.
We have to wait and see in the future. It's possible the Spanish Senate will drop the advertisement ban before approval, but I don't know too much about how Spanish law works. The advertisement ban seem vague.
They passed a law making cocaine illegal. And as you all know, it's now totally impossible to buy the stuff anywhere in Spain. Those people disappearing off to the toilets every five minutes just have weak bladders.
And those caught with coke either pay fines or with large amounts go to prison.
The next step they're talking about here is fining clients 1000 euros. Sure we can still get escorts if they make it illegal, but a big reason I left the US was to stop dealing with that bullshit.
They passed the same laws in France a while back. I know girls who are working in France, now. Paris & Rouen. I spoke with a rather up-market house in Lille not so long ago. They're still welcoming visitors. So's a similar one in Bordeaux. Haven't been to the Cote de Azure since well before Covidpanic but a pal lives there reckons he's having fun.
.I don't think we can compare Spain to France, Spain is 1000 x better for pros.
I disagree.
Look at the website suffix of the very site you are on.
The Spanish advertisement sites will have to register in a different country.
It is a bit of a hassle, but not a huge big deal.
Almost all USA and Canadian escort advertisements and review websites are registered in friendly European jurisdictions.Not sure how the US works now, but last time I was there was right around the time Craigslist banned their stuff (showing my age a bit). Then I remember being over here and they completely blocked the backpage site also.
The Spanish government is well known for fining obscene amounts to some law breakers, (if I remember correctly they fined milanuncios like 50,000 euros for advertising something they weren't supposed to) I can see them fining and blocking sites also.
Shitty law if it goes through the senate any way we look at it, and one step closer to becoming like US sex prison. I agree that if it's "only" ads, there will be some way around it, but not like it is now.
I have to admit I look at ads almost every single day and it's amazing.
If they ever make it totally illegal, I guess time to look at Portugal apartments? LOL.
Mongerer88
05-28-22, 21:47
Portugal is a great place, but that would be a pretty drastic step for you to take, and a great number of Portugal advertising sites such as Apartadox don't provide explicit terms like BBBJ.
Some territories in Australia have banned explicit advertising for years.
The USA Scene is expensive, much more so after the attacks on Craigslist and Backpage, but it is alive and well. My favorite in Miami has a. Ch in her website (Switzerland). Everything else is the same with seeing her.
If the law passes, you will see many review sites go from Spain to the Netherlands for privacy reasons. Those privacy provisions make it more difficult for law enforcement to obtain the information necessary to make an attack, but there is usually some true legal protection. The advertisement itself occurs on a Swiss site. There is a real question whether a USA Or a Spanish law against advertising applies to a server in Switzerland. And a real question of whether a government is willing to bring a complicated case like that to court. After the migration of USA Websites to friendly European countries after Fosta / Sesta, and Canadian sites to such countries after see-36, we just didn't see such cases brought by the government. Although we certainly saw a reduction in acronyms on websites whether they remained in North America or moved offshore. And not everything moved offshore. And we haven't seen enforcement action against those that stayed. My favorite in Las Vegas is on a USA Site and says among her favorite activities are BBBJ, DATY and giving / receiving spankings. She doesn't say she sells those things, she just says she enjoys them. She sells her time. So far the Gestapo hasn't showed up at her place.
Andulus makes a great point that even if sexomercadobcn moves it's domain registration outside of Spain, how will it collect fees from advertisers. The more it does in Spain, the more risk it takes, and the lowest-priced, least sophisticated providers are least able to comply with complicated payment systems that are untraceable or take place electronically outside of Spain. That may drive prices up. We may see a situation where the ads originating in Spain have very little information about services, and the poor ladies will type Yes I do BBBJ so often in text / WhatsApp messages in response to questions that the phrase will auto-fill every time they hit why. That is what Australian independent providers in certain territories complain about, since they can't put much of anything in their ads. There administrative time answering questions skyrockets. It makes review boards and recommendations even more important if it happens, as they are the primary source of information about services. And sometimes a customer just has to deal with a greater level of unknown. The purchase and sell of sex would still be legal in Spain if an advertising ban occurs. You would still see her ad with the contact information and / or address. You just might not know everything that is offered until you are in the room with her, if no information is available on a review board.
But the industry survives bans on explicit advertising. Hell, it survives bans on the commercial sale of sex. If it is banned for both the buyer and seller, the model turns to time / companionship with screening to make sure neither party is law enforcement. The sky doesn't fall, but these bullshit laws can make the shy partly cloudy on most days.
And those caught with coke either pay fines or with large amounts go to prison.
The next step they're talking about here is fining clients 1000 euros. Sure we can still get escorts if they make it illegal, but a big reason I left the US was to stop dealing with that bullshit.
I don't think we can compare Spain to France, Spain is 1000 x better for pros.
Not sure how the US works now, but last time I was there was right around the time Craigslist banned their stuff (showing my age a bit). Then I remember being over here and they completely blocked the backpage site also.
The Spanish government is well known for fining obscene amounts to some law breakers, (if I remember correctly they fined milanuncios like 50,000 euros for advertising something they weren't supposed to) I can see them fining and blocking sites also..
Keep in mind the consent law on sex only managed to pass after PSOE dropped amendment that banned prostitution from apartments and clubs due to lot of opposition IIRC. Unless they convince the opposition (which I doubt given their rejection of the law), I don't see how they could pass a law that "abolishes" prostitution. The ironic thing is that it was PSOE who decriminalized prostitution back in 1995, but it was a different party back than the SJW party they are now.
GuyBrusg1957
05-29-22, 03:04
Depends on what you are looking for, although they all have similarities.
On a price-adjusted basis, I think Lisbon is the best for a full hour of sex with an escort, particularly if outcall to your hotel room is your thing. Barcelona can be as good for escort outcall, but quite a bit more expensive. So the difference is more pronounced if you are in a budget.
If I am understanding you correctly it sounds like you're saying that Lisbon has the best value, Madrid hottest girls and Barcelona the more "fun" scene with younger talent.
GuyBrusg1957
05-29-22, 03:05
Well first of all Portugal is not in Spain. In fact, it's a totally different country! LMAO!Oh, I get that but I figured I might as well ask here since they're so close.
GuyBrusg1957
05-29-22, 03:16
Cocaine is basically illegal everywhere expect on some part of South America. Right?
It's a crazy strong drug but literally Miley Cryrus to Cardi be literally sing about doing it every day in broad daylight.
Mongerer88
05-29-22, 05:20
If I am understanding you correctly it sounds like you're saying that Lisbon has the best value, Madrid hottest girls and Barcelona the more "fun" scene with younger talent.They are really difficult to compare, and always exceptions, but yes.
Lisbon is the best for affordable one-hour or more outcall hotel escort sessions.
Barcelona is the best for BBBJ included as standard short-time sessions with "teens" at a place near the touristy areas, and.
Madrid is best for Russia / Ukrainian / Eastern European stunners, if you find that category of white women more attractive than Latinas, or Spanish / Portuguese.
A Spanish article claims the PP (the center-right party of Spain) will support the purposed bill I mentioned earlier by PSOE earlier to abolish prostitution:https://cadenaser.com/nacional/2022/05/30/especial-50-anos-de-hora-25-cadena-ser/. I don't know if the PP is actually going to vote for this bill or not (some articles claim they are abolitionist, but political parties don't always follow their word and often change their mind as you probably), but if the Spanish government successfully passes this law I wonder how it would be actually enforced, especially in regions like Catalonia, where prostitution is treated like legal work and opposition to abolishment of prostitution is the strongest. France was considered a abolitionist country until 2016, yet online prostitution still flourishes, and out of a population of over 66 million only few thousand were finned. The police isn't going after online prostitution, and the government doesn't seem to care about subject like it did under François Hollande. If it doesn't work in France, I don't see how it will work in Spain.
GuyBrusg1957
05-31-22, 04:46
They are really difficult to compare, and always exceptions, but yes.
Lisbon is the best for affordable one-hour or more outcall hotel escort sessions.
Barcelona is the best for BBBJ included as standard short-time sessions with "teens" at a place near the touristy areas, and.
Madrid is best for Russia / Ukrainian / Eastern European stunners, if you find that category of white women more attractive than Latinas, or Spanish / Portuguese.Sounds Madrid would be my first pick. Any specific suggestions beyond pygmalion? I'm also assuming not speaking Spanish shouldn't be a barrier?
Mongerer88
05-31-22, 13:02
A Spanish article claims the PP (the center-right party of Spain) will support the purposed bill I mentioned earlier by PSOE earlier to abolish prostitution:https://cadenaser.com/nacional/2022/05/30/especial-50-anos-de-hora-25-cadena-ser/. I don't know if the PP is actually going to vote for this bill or not (some articles claim they are abolitionist, but political parties don't always follow their word and often change their mind as you probably), but if the Spanish government successfully passes this law I wonder how it would be actually enforced, especially in regions like Catalonia, where prostitution is treated like legal work and opposition to abolishment of prostitution is the strongest. France was considered a abolitionist country until 2016, yet online prostitution still flourishes, and out of a population of over 66 million only few thousand were finned. The police isn't going after online prostitution, and the government doesn't seem to care about subject like it did under Franois Hollande. If it doesn't work in France, I don't see how it will work in Spain.If one wants to follow the topic, open this in Google Chrome to read in translated English. The first pages are the oldest, so scroll to the end of the long thread to read the latest.
If you followed Canada's C-36 or America's Fosta / Sesta, it might give you post traumatic stress disorder. No matter what, it will turn out okay, but someone might move your cheese and, if so, you have to adapt and find the cheese's new location in the great mouse maze.
https://www.sexomercadobcn.com/llego-la-abolicion-de-la-mano-del-psoe-t441814-i8.html
Mongerer88
05-31-22, 13:13
Sounds Madrid would be my first pick. Any specific suggestions beyond pygmalion? I'm also assuming not speaking Spanish shouldn't be a barrier?Really difficult to make these comparisons.
If you are price indifferent, yes Pygmalion in Madrid is fantastic, especially if you are the type to insist on interacting with the lady beforehand.
In that same spirit, the top escorts in Barcelona at Feeling, OK' Escorts and Blue Velvet are slightly hotter than the group at Vecinitas. But as baseball pitcher Roger Clemens once said when asked by his teammates if the lady he signed an autograph for was hot, he noted tgat when you are pushing 40, all the college-aged girls are hot. And the more girls you see on a trip, the more difficult it becomes to cum twice in an hour. So you can see like 2. 5 Vecinitas ladies for sessions of a shorter length with CIM likely included for every 1 outcall escort lady you see in Barcelona. And because the Vecinitas ladies are young, they are hot enough.
Now if you prefer outcall escorting to your room, when factoring in transportation charges and upsells, the Lisbon outcall escorts are generally 25 to 50 percent less expensive than the top Barcelona and Madrid hotel outcall escorts. In general, they are not quite as hot, but plenty hot enough.
So we bring to many of our own differences into play for one city to be better than another city from a comparison standpoint. We all like different things.
https://www.elespanol.com/espana/politica/20220601/psoe-prostitucion-prohibe-producir-porno-cine-internet/676682717_0.html
Paywall, I can't get the entire article, but from the other forum, now some analysts are saying the new law will prohibit pornography from being published in Spain in the cinema or internet. (as well as no more escort ads allowed on the internet).
They are 100% out of their fucking minds.
Hopefully the senate catches this and they don't pass the new law and it has to go back and be rewritten. They shoved in this last part at the last minute.
I'm not sure when the Senate makes their vote, but if approved, it's done. And the only thing would be wait for new seats to reverse it, but that seems highly unlikely to reverse things (from my understanding reading things from the other forum as well)
PSOE and these feminists are fucking insane.
That be fucking nuts if they banned pornography. I think it be a easy way to lose ton of votes in next elections if they pass it as is, especially to the Vox party. If the opposition can't overturn it after it becomes law the supreme court can. The ironic thing is that PSOE decriminalized prostitution back in 1995, but it was a different party in that time. Now they want to bring back laws from conservative Franco era.
Well, a lawyer chimed in on the thread and he thinks it will only prohibit descriptions and phrases that will advertise as a prostitute in a degrading way like "fuck my dirty ass and rip me apart, hit me and spit on me".
Things like that. Which would actually cover hardcore porn also I guess?
The comments are all over the place, the only thing we can do is wait to see if the Senate approves the law and see what's really going to be banned online after the approval.
I don't know when the Senate vote takes place (anyone know?), but from what I read if the Senate approves it, it takes like 30 days to become official.
P.S. https://www.elmundo.es/papel/historias/2022/06/01/62976993fc6c833b5f8b45c1.html
super interesting read between an escort and one of the supporters (lawyer feminist) of the new law. The supporter of the new law the entire time just says she's right and the escort is wrong, the escort says "it's my body let me do what the fuck i want with it, don't tell me what to do"
Andalus Expat
06-02-22, 22:48
That be fucking nuts if they banned pornography. I think it be a easy way to lose ton of votes in next elections if they pass it as is, especially to the Vox party. If the opposition can't overturn it after it becomes law the supreme court can. The ironic thing is that PSOE decriminalized prostitution back in 1995, but it was a different party in that time. Now they want to bring back laws from conservative Franco era.Don't get fooled into thinking this is about prostitution, advertising prostitution or porn. This is about politics, image, media coverage & ultimately votes. Politicians, media grandstanders, the leaders of lobbying groups grazing fatly on the donations of their supporters are primarily concerned about their own personal interests & what benefit they can get out of it. It's being spun as a moral issue. Opposing morality has to be immoral, doesn't it? None of these people have the slightest concern that legislation won't achieve what supposed to or that it's likely to make the situation a whole lot worse.
Personally, I reckon it'll pass. If not in full. And if it doesn't we'll be revisiting it fairly shortly. Sweden & France have versions of it. The political climate across Europe's ripe for it. People seem to want authoritarian governments who'll tell them what they cannot or must do. (Or maybe people are becoming more authoritarian & like seeing other people being told what they must & cannot do) Either way, classical liberalism is pretty well dead. Maybe it's because in a rapidly changing world people feel more insecure. Look how the Covid restrictions were so widely embraced. There's vociferous lobbying in the UK for much the same legislation as proposed for Spain. Germany next?
As for what happens if it passes. Spanish blokes are not going to give up putas & the putas aren't going to stop accommodating the Spanish. The scene functioned perfectly well before interweb advertising & it will again. Less than half of all appointments are the result of adverts now & a lot of those are just laziness. We'll be back to knowing the places to go to make a connection & networking. Might even be better in some ways. End of all those false photos & misleading descriptions by the chancers. The girls will be back to relying on reputations & recommendations. But more difficult for visitors who've been so far handed the whole thing on a plate & haven't bothered about learning. Now's your chance.
"The ironic thing is that PSOE decriminalized prostitution back in 1995" I've been coming down here since the 70's & didn't realize anything had changed. It was a good place to go then, it is now. I expect it to continue to be a good place to go.
"The ironic thing is that PSOE decriminalized prostitution back in 1995" I've been coming down here since the 70's & didn't realize anything had changed. It was a good place to go then, it is now. I expect it to continue to be a good place to go.Were the Chinese massage shops and Chinese escort apartments here in the 70's? I hit those up religiously when I can't find a decent escort from another country.
Andalus Expat
06-04-22, 22:17
Were the Chinese massage shops and Chinese escort apartments here in the 70's? I hit those up religiously when I can't find a decent escort from another country.Can't say I remember any. But I wasn't looking. I've always rated anything Chinese as not worth the bother. Thai girls very much yes but never Chinese. But one rarely sees real Thai girls in Spain. Not the money for them here, I suppose.
The form was, then, there were bars etc where one could usually make a connection. They were usually well known but if you were new to the area you could generally find one. One developed a "nose" for them. What sort area you'd expect them to be in, what they'd look like. They still exist as the small "clubs" you'll find in or around small towns all over Spain. They just stuck some neon on the roof. I far prefer that sort of thing to the big glossy clubs with their wildly inflated prices & hustling girls. I did actually stumble on one of the original bars up in Burgos Province a few years back. Just an ordinary town bar come restaurant from the outside. But I sussed it as soon as I walked through the door. Woman who ran it was Colombian. Obvious ex-puta. A few likely girls with the available look. We were talking the same language from the off. Had to stay in town several days waiting for the car to be fixed. Great bar. Normal drink prices. Took one of the talent out every night. Two one night. I still see one if I'm driving to / from France that way. Usually for breakfast. I ring her an hour before & she has everything waiting for me.
GuyBrusg1957
06-06-22, 06:07
Really difficult to make these comparisons.
If you are price indifferent, yes Pygmalion in Madrid is fantastic, especially if you are the type to insist on interacting with the lady beforehand.
In that same spirit, the top escorts in Barcelona at Feeling, OK' Escorts and Blue Velvet are slightly hotter than the group at Vecinitas. But as baseball pitcher Roger Clemens once said when asked by his teammates if the lady he signed an autograph for was hot, he noted tgat when you are pushing 40, all the college-aged girls are hot. And the more girls you see on a trip, the more difficult it becomes to cum twice in an hour. So you can see like 2. 5 Vecinitas ladies for sessions of a shorter length with CIM likely included for every 1 outcall escort lady you see in Barcelona. And because the Vecinitas ladies are young, they are hot enough.
Now if you prefer outcall escorting to your room, when factoring in transportation charges and upsells, the Lisbon outcall escorts are generally 25 to 50 percent less expensive than the top Barcelona and Madrid hotel outcall escorts. In general, they are not quite as hot, but plenty hot enough.
So we bring to many of our own differences into play for one city to be better than another city from a comparison standpoint. We all like different things.
Agreed, I am sure there is a ton of variance but for what I am trying to find Madrid seems to be my best pick and I am the kind of person that wants to chat with the girl a bit before taking her home. Unless Barcelona has similar clubs - it seems my best pics are Pigmalion and Air?
TeddyBears
06-06-22, 11:14
Agreed, I am sure there is a ton of variance but for what I am trying to find Madrid seems to be my best pick and I am the kind of person that wants to chat with the girl a bit before taking her home. Unless Barcelona has similar clubs - it seems my best pics are Pigmalion and Air?The club scene in Madrid is a lot better than in Barcelona, I would advise you to visit Vive Madrid as your primary objective and Pigmalion as second if you don't mind spending your money. You should be aware of that during summertime there will be less girls in Madrid than usual, because of the heat and lack of ocean not many tourists are visiting. You mention Air, I am guessing you mean Factory Air? Before you visit that club you should rather visit Flowers Park or Whiskeria Estark first imo. Flowers Park is a bit far out but usually always have a few nice girls on site but beware that taxi one way is about €50, Whiskeria Estark has usually 25-40 girls on site most of them are of lower standard and sometimes there has been zaro attractive girls when you enter the club, but order something in the bar and wait for a while, and somehow there will always be a few really pretty girls turning up. The big plus at Whiskeria Estark is the price, last time I was there a real stunner quoted €120 for an hour so I suggested €200 for two hours which she happily accepted.
Looks like prostitution will become illegal in Spain.
PSOE has agreement with PP to pass it which will give them enough votes. Will become effective around October (unless something extraordinary happens, the other forum is trying to organize something)
According to the other forum, clients will be given a fine and jail time for being with a prostitute.
Well, fuck Spain also I guess. These feminists are fucking insane.
Wonder what other West European cities are better than Barcelona as far as escorts go (young and cheap LOL).
https://www.heraldo.es/noticias/nacional/2022/06/06/el-congreso-aprueba-este-martes-tramitar-la-ley-para-abolir-la-prostitucion-del-psoe-con-el-apoyo-de-podemos-y-pp-1579712.html
I wrote PP below, I should have written Podemos.
Looks like prostitution will become illegal in Spain.
PSOE has agreement with PP to pass it which will give them enough votes. Will become effective around October (unless something extraordinary happens, the other forum is trying to organize something)
According to the other forum, clients will be given a fine and jail time for being with a prostitute.
Well, fuck Spain also I guess. These feminists are fucking insane.
Wonder what other West European cities are better than Barcelona as far as escorts go (young and cheap LOL).
https://www.heraldo.es/noticias/nacional/2022/06/06/el-congreso-aprueba-este-martes-tramitar-la-ley-para-abolir-la-prostitucion-del-psoe-con-el-apoyo-de-podemos-y-pp-1579712.htmlI sent your link to 3 club owners in Spain. One in Madrid and two in Costa Del Sol. They all agree it will not come into force. One of them laughed a lot. He speaks good English and I asked if this was wishful thinking and that really the clubs will close. The answer (from all three) is that if there is any change at all (which they doubt) it will not impact when a woman wants freely to provide services with no pimp. The clubs operate as hotels. The girls pay a room fee. Clients can take a guest of the hotel to a room if she agrees and what happens in that room is up to the two adults. If this comes in at all it will be aimed at killing off SWs with pimps, people who operate brothels / villas / houses where the girls have to work to have accommodation / food. It will have little or no impact on clubs in Spain where the clubs are paying their taxes to the Government from the "hotel" income.
Mongerer88
06-07-22, 00:36
I sent your link to 3 club owners in Spain. One in Madrid and two in Costa Del Sol. They all agree it will not come into force. One of them laughed a lot. He speaks good English and I asked if this was wishful thinking and that really the clubs will close. The answer (from all three) is that if there is any change at all (which they doubt) it will not impact when a woman wants freely to provide services with no pimp. The clubs operate as hotels. The girls pay a room fee. Clients can take a guest of the hotel to a room if she agrees and what happens in that room is up to the two adults. If this comes in at all it will be aimed at killing off SWs with pimps, people who operate brothels / villas / houses where the girls have to work to have accommodation / food. It will have little or no impact on clubs in Spain where the clubs are paying their taxes to the Government from the "hotel" income.I agree that they are the least affected. But hopefully it doesn't pass. There is a bullying aspect to this law regarding the possible fining of landlords. So those of us who prefer to see ladies sharing a flat have the concern that landlords might become inhospitable to the ladies. There are so many unanswered questions and hypotheticals that it makes a person's head spin. Of course nothing has passed, and who knows what the final bill will look like once it goes through the Executive Committee mentioned in the article.
Most of us come from countries with some level of illegality. There is plenty of commercial sex available in every country including the USA But the greater the illegality, the higher the prices are to get great service and to stay safe from law enforcement. The practical effect is to reduce supply and to increase prices, which makes the scene less visible, and more difficult for women to easily enter the industry.
I had one of my biggest laughs a decade or two ago. LOS Angeles police ignores independent escorts who screen, but they are hell on escort agencies. There was one agency that existed for a long time that was excellent. They closed after the female "owner" died of a cocaine overdose. Their incall was at a boutique hotel in Santa Monica. It had only a few rooms. I went in, and the college-aged guy at the front desk looked up from his textbook and smiled at me when I went to the elevator.
One of the girls I saw there was a knockout but clearly smoked pot. I thought to myself, I bet she gets a hotel fine someday.
I got back from a trip and searched on the somewhat primitive internet what the room cost would be. It wasn't advertised anywhere, even though it was registered with the state government as a hotel according to the internet. Then I figured it out. The escort agency owned the fucking hotel. Hell of a way to launder the money, too.
People in the industry in Spain won't have to go to those extremes if the law passes, and the industry won't die out. Prices will go up if a level of illegality occurs, though.
It's unfortunate that feminazis are trying to ruin one of my favorite countries. The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised if VOX party takes over the government in the future.
Andalus Expat
06-07-22, 03:23
I wrote PP below, I should have written Podemos.I've been told Podemos are split on the matter between the moralists / feminists & the libertarian faction. I know people in our local Vox. They say Vox will be 100% opposed. PP is apparently split with the majority for. Of course voting's not a binary matter. Presumably abstain is a possibility which complicates things. If it passes, I gather it has to go to the senate.
At PayForIt "If this comes in at all it will be aimed at killing off SWs with pimps, people who operate brothels / villas / houses where the girls have to work to have accommodation / food." Except that's not how brothels / villas / houses legally operate. The girl rents accommodation & what she does in her room is up to her. Making money from a prostitutes earnings is already illegal in Spain. And if you ask any girl, they'll tell you they don't get fed. They pay for their food. People who run these places are as much chisellers as the managements of clubs. Notorious for it.
I was living in France when the French law came in. France already had a law prohibiting brothels. Came in the '50's I believe. Didn't mean they didn't widely proliferate. There was a flurry of police activity at the start. Haven't been to Paris for years so don't know what happened to the Bois de Boulogne. Situation now's it's pretty well back to normal. Houses I know are still operating & there's lots of girls advertising on internet sites. Basically, you'd only get problems with the police if what was going on was overtly visible. Enforcement is not something the police have much appetite for.
If it becomes law, I'm expecting much the same as in France. But you have to look behind the politics for why politicians are embracing the legislation. The matter itself is not an election winner / loser. There's far more important issues out there. But there is a sizeable & vociferous lobby & its supporters. So the parties hope to swing some of the votes towards them. Problem's that for those opposed, there aren't any votes in it. A good part of the electorate are indifferent. Opposing is unlikely to swing many votes in a party's direction. Post legislation things change. In due course the swung votes will be counted at the next election & the issue drops out of politics. It's unlikely to be revisited & repealed. But the moral lobbyists will be still out there, if somewhat placated. You're never going to abolish prostitution. Not going to happen. Like drug dealing, you can only push it underground. It will depend on visibility how much pressure they apply. Why I have doubts about the survival of the big clubs. The manager's opinions? In the words of Christine Keeler "he would say that, wouldn't he?" For the moral activists they'll be like waving a red rag at a bull. I'd imagine it will come down to local authority level. How much pressure local politicians come under. They don't need a law to shut down a business. They've already got endless laws to make one impossible to operate. The tax revenue is irrelevant. It's trivial. Funny enough, the tax revenue from the girls is probably more than the club. Most of them are registered as autonomo (registered self employed). They need that to keep their residencia & get health care. And without residencia they can't work in clubs. Maybe the answer for the clubs would be to change their game. At the moment they mostly don't offer anything but accommodation & a bar. Split the hotel side off as a separate entity letting rooms to customers. Make the club an actual club in the disco sense. Offer something other than just being a pick up joint.
If this comes in at all it will be aimed at killing off SWs with pimps, people who operate brothels / villas / houses where the girls have to work to have accommodation / food. It will have little or no impact on clubs in Spain where the clubs are paying their taxes to the Government from the "hotel" income.Well I certainly hope you're right and I'm 1000% wrong.
Looks like it approved for processing today (according to other forum, I can't find a link confirming. Yes - 218 No - 37). So not 100% a law yet, but closer.
The law is targeting:
1 - the brothels / villas / houses you're exactly writing about. It will be illegal to rent a room to a prostitute. They want to shut down anyone earning money via real estate through prostitution.
2 - Us. We will be fined 1500 euros or more if caught.
3 - Pimps. They will be fined more and jail time as well.
You're never going to abolish prostitution. Not going to happen. Of course not. It's legal in the USA. And how is it there?
It fucking sucks.
I didn't / don't want Spain to turn into that. In the US $30 gets you a street walker on drugs and worried about getting busted by a cop. I've done it way, way too many times to count.
Here 60 euros gets a hot 20 year old and zero worry.
Huge difference.
Once it's illegal, it will be next to impossible to make it legal and regulated (who the hell is going to stand up and say 'hey let's legalize this and tax it' In my opinion no one.)
Those who have girlfriends / wives, how the hell do you explain a 1500 euro fine and a court appearance? You're fucked.
Those who don't. If the girls can't rent rooms, can't advertise, supply dries up big time. Prices will double or triple.
Lastly, if it's legal and regulated, Spain would make a killing on taxes. And also protect the women too. I. e. Make them pay into a pension and give them healthcare.
Whole thing is fucking idiotic. Depending how bad it gets, personally might seriously consider moving to another western EU country.
Spain spent 3.8 billion (billion with a b) on prostitutes last year. No doubt in my mind if there was some way to raise a fraction of a percent of that to get some lawyers together and back PP for example to regulate it instead of totally ban it things can change.
The guys who own the brothels across the country should be doing something, they'll lose a shit ton of money. Hell, I'd donate also.
Whole thing is fucking idiotic. Depending how bad it gets, personally might seriously consider moving to another western EU country.Although traditionally Spain has been one of my favorite mongering destinations in the world, I decided several years ago not to return because I didn't feel that the value for my money I had gotten in prior years was still there. Club tutes wanting too much for doing too little. In the past, if some venue I didn't care for closed (like Club Help in Rio) or if there was a step back from legalization in a destination I had no interest in visiting, then I would just shrug my shoulders and be thankful that nothing I liked was being negatively impacted. But these days, I understand and acknowledge that if there is a setback to our avocation anywhere, then we have been diminished in some capacity everywhere. I hope this legislation does not ruin the scene in Spain in any significant way, shape, or form! Whether I intend to return or not.
Messaged x4 girls today about this and one of the club owners to ask if there was any greater concern.
Club owner said he was very confident it would not affect business because they don't pimp. When I mentioned the fine for letting a room for prostitution he said it will be impossible to prove. The girls can lock their rooms if they want. All of the girls said if comes in they will move to Germany, Austria or Switzerland.
In Germany in July 2017 there was furore in the FKKs. New law banned BBBJ! Girls seized the chance to charge more for it. Previously it was part of standard service. Some girls took it seriously. They would hold an opened condom in one hand whilst sucking your uncovered dick and holding with the other hand. If the police burst in they would say they were putting it on! Yep. Seriously. Guess how many prosecutions there have been for the supply of BBBJ since the new law came in. Yep you guessed it. Zero!
All a lot of hype about nothing other than winning votes. Doubt you'll ever see it ever effectively implemented.
But IF it is. No worries. FKKs in Germany, Austria and Switzerland are all legal. Each of those countries will laugh in their beer at raking in the income from legalised prostitution whilst Spain (not for the first time) gets it economically very seriously wrong.
Truth is that the P4 P scene in Spain has become a little tired anyway. 10 years ago I would not have missed more than 2 weeks here. Now I prefer Thailand, Dubai, all of Germany, and even Manchester! Prices have gone up a lot to unreasonable levels. It is no cheaper now to monger in a Spanish club than in an FKK where there are a lot of added benefits (the restaurants / gyms / sauna / professional massage / cheaper rooms / hundreds of naked women). Whilst Spain has the weather, and better food if you know where to go, for the mongerer it is very much second to Germany in EU already. This law. If passed. Will kill it off and Germany will reap the rewards.
I've been told Podemos are split on the matter between the moralists / feminists & the libertarian faction. I know people in our local Vox. They say Vox will be 100% opposed. PP is apparently split with the majority for. Of course voting's not a binary matter. Presumably abstain is a possibility which complicates things. If it passes, I gather it has to go to the senate.
At PayForIt "If this comes in at all it will be aimed at killing off SWs with pimps, people who operate brothels / villas / houses where the girls have to work to have accommodation / food." Except that's not how brothels / villas / houses legally operate. The girl rents accommodation & what she does in her room is up to her. Making money from a prostitutes earnings is already illegal in Spain. And if you ask any girl, they'll tell you they don't get fed. They pay for their food. People who run these places are as much chisellers as the managements of clubs. Notorious for it.
I was living in France when the French law came in. France already had a law prohibiting brothels. Came in the '50's I believe. Didn't mean they didn't widely proliferate. There was a flurry of police activity at the start. Haven't been to Paris for years so don't know what happened to the Bois de Boulogne. Situation now's it's pretty well back to normal. Houses I know are still operating & there's lots of girls advertising on internet sites. Basically, you'd only get problems with the police if what was going on was overtly visible. Enforcement is not something the police have much appetite for..Good points, but I disagree that the prostitution laws wouldn't be revisited.
Andalus Expat
06-08-22, 11:33
Messaged x4 girls today about this and one of the club owners to ask if there was any greater concern.
Club owner said he was very confident it would not affect business because they don't pimp. When I mentioned the fine for letting a room for prostitution he said it will be impossible to prove. The girls can lock their rooms if they want. All of the girls said if comes in they will move to Germany, Austria or Switzerland.
In Germany in July 2017 there was furore in the FKKs. New law banned BBBJ! Girls seized the chance to charge more for it. Previously it was part of standard service. Some girls took it seriously. They would hold an opened condom in one hand whilst sucking your uncovered dick and holding with the other hand. If the police burst in they would say they were putting it on! Yep. Seriously. Guess how many prosecutions there have been for the supply of BBBJ since the new law came in. Yep you guessed it. Zero!
All a lot of hype about nothing other than winning votes. Doubt you'll ever see it ever effectively implemented.
But IF it is. No worries. FKKs in Germany, Austria and Switzerland are all legal. Each of those countries will laugh in their beer at raking in the income from legalised prostitution whilst Spain (not for the first time) gets it economically very seriously wrong.
Truth is that the P4 P scene in Spain has become a little tired anyway. 10 years ago I would not have missed more than 2 weeks here. Now I prefer Thailand, Dubai, all of Germany, and even Manchester! Prices have gone up a lot to unreasonable levels. It is no cheaper now to monger in a Spanish club than in an FKK where there are a lot of added benefits (the restaurants / gyms / sauna / professional massage / cheaper rooms / hundreds of naked women). Whilst Spain has the weather, and better food if you know where to go, for the mongerer it is very much second to Germany in EU already. This law. If passed. Will kill it off and Germany will reap the rewards.You're basically saying the same as I am, PayForIt. The industry will adapt & survive. Brothels have been illegal in the UK for decades. But I could still take you to one today. Or in fact a choice of several without moving more than a couple of miles from Hyde Park Corner. In the same way as despite the War on Drugs! We could pick up a few grams of charlie on en route, to compliment the entertainment. You don't use or approve? Are in favour of drug criminalisation? Then maybe you're the same as the people trying to outlaw prostitution.
And don't kid yourself the same's not going to happen in Germany, Austria & Switzerland. All have the same feminist & moralist lobbying & activist groups. If Spain adopts the legislation, it'll be an encouragement for them. It's just the times we live in. The death of classical liberalism. The rise of petty authoritarianism. The people who know what's good for you much better than you do. And the one's who can't rest knowing there's someone, somewhere enjoying themselves in a manner they don't approve of. I've lived & worked in Germany. Always amazed me what prescriptive laws Germans will swallow. Can't mow your lawn on a Sunday FFS! But Germans have a long long history of prostrating themselves to authority. It'll come to all of Europe, eventually. The question's when not whether. Wouldn't surprise me in the least if in due course something comes out of the EU or the European Court of Justice to chase laggard nations into line. Revisiting & repeal? Bureaucrats don't give up powers lightly. If at all. Forget it. You do not live in a democracy & there wouldn't be a democratic mandate to do so if you did. There's no Proud to be a Punter movement for the media to latch on to. And we all know prostitutes are misguided, exploited, vulnerable souls in need of protection not the right to choose.
When I mentioned the fine for letting a room for prostitution he said it will be impossible to prove. I think (at least this is what happens in the US) that all it takes is some undercover officers a few times. Once they agree to sex for money and money changes hands. Boom, fines and shut down.
one of the club owners to ask if there was any greater concern.
Club owner said he was very confident it would not affect business because they don't pimp. I'm really curious where are the club owners in all this? And the Chinese mafia for that matter. Could you imagine if the first hint of making tobacco illegal or guns illegal in the US happens? There'd be hundreds of millions of dollars raised in a month to back politicians against making any of that illegal.
These club owners and mafias must be making a ton every year (last year 3. 8 Billion spent on prostitutes in Spain).
I wouldn't care if there was even as little as a twitter post about making it illegal. At any hint of fucking with that kind of money revenue I'd start putting something together to fight it with other owners (lawyers, etc).
Where are all these guys, they have to be at least a LITTLE bit concerned. Even if it's 1% concern, for 3. 8 billion start putting something together to fight it. Literally the first thing they're going to close would be Chinese apartments and clubs like Apricots.
it is very much second to Germany in EU already. This law. If passed. Will kill it off and Germany will reap the rewards.Don't know much about Germany, but I guess time to start looking LOL.
Andalus Expat
06-10-22, 10:13
These club owners and mafias must be making a ton every year (last year 3.8 Billion spent on prostitutes in Spain).Heard that claim before. I doesn't really stack up. Clubs are only about 5% of the total market & that's spread over maybe a thousand or more clubs. You have to remember all the small ones almost every town in Spain has. And simple business economics. Investment capital is fungible. Return on investment capital deployed in Spain is around 9% p / a. If the return on club capital was much greater than that investors would move from funding say skate parks to funding puticlubs. Number of clubs would increase, competition would drive down the rate of return towards that 9%.
Looking at the big ones, it's hard to see how they could be. Most of the money coming into a club is going to the girls not the club The hotel side's just a hotel. Room rates are about par for the market during the season. Off season they may benefit from not reducing the rates but occupancy drops whilst overheads don't. The bar is just a bar, customer prices a bit higher than discos. Girl drinks their kicking back 50% to the girl. But the exploitation of the utility of the asset is low. For most club bars their trade doesn't really get going until midnight & tapers after three. Any equivalent normal bar would be doing that 4 hours earlier & have a far longer peak. And that's why you find them in prime commercial sites in the centre of town not stuck out on industrial estates.
Problem with the industry as a whole, not just the clubs, is you're looking at people who have failed at everything else. The world's losers. Very few people go into this game could succeed doing anything else. If they could why wouldn't they? Most of them are either lazy or thick or both. And there's an unlimited supply of thick lazy people in the world. So the supply side's much greater than the demand. So there's really not much money to be made in it. Making a living's an achievement.
I wouldn't be surprised if the club owners are connected to members of the political elite.
Andalus Expat
06-11-22, 13:23
I wouldn't be surprised if the club owners are connected to members of the political elite.One thing you can be sure of. There are few people with influence are clients of puti clubs. Spanish culture. They are obsessed with being discreto. Big extended families & social networking. Everybody either knows or wants to know what you're doing. They gossip continually & can be very judgemental. It's a minefield.
Few months ago I received a letter from a lawyer representing the two other apartments in the building mine is in. Complaining about my visitors. Not noise or anything. Reference was made to young women of a certain appearance late at night. They must be glued to their door camera & never sleep. They received a stiff one from my lawyer threatening to take them to court for harassment if they persisted. That's Spain for you mate. Other countries, they might think things. But they wouldn't go to those lengths or think they could achieve anything by doing so.
Delta Indigo
06-19-22, 20:09
I think it is very hard to oppose laws like this, ie anti prostitution law, without a lot of courage in the current climate and I really thought the PP would give in and this law would eventually pass. Like Pay For It I think Germany will be the beneficiary of this, a provider exodus to Germany. Unlike him I think that things will change if this law is passed and the clubs won't be able to operate like before. Many people thought that the 2017 prostitution law in Germany would not change anything, I thought it would affect pricing at the least, since the girls would use it as a pretext to charge more and I think I was more right on this.
However reading the Spanish forum, it might be that the PP letting this law advance was a tactic on their part to sow discord between the Socialists and Podemos who are far from united on this issue, right before and election year. The PP might eventually not support this law but wants the debate to go ahead in order to low discord on the left.
If the Popular Party do well in Andalusia, then the Popular Party will assume that they will win the next general election, then their worry is Vox and not the Socialists, so they then no longer have an incentive to support this law. I hope this law does not pass since although Spain is not great value for money as others have noted, it is great that we have another large scale alternative to Germany in Europe and I hope it remains that way.
I also love the food, culture and architecture in Spain. It is a better holiday destination than Germany overall.
I doubt there will be a exodus of providers going to DACH (Germany, Austria, and Switzerland). France made sex purchase illegal back in 2016, yet the number of escorts working hasn't gone down from what I gathered. Like I said before we have to wait and see.
I think it is very hard to oppose laws like this, ie anti prostitution law, without a lot of courage in the current climate and I really thought the PP would give in and this law would eventually pass. Like Pay For It I think Germany will be the beneficiary of this, a provider exodus to Germany. Unlike him I think that things will change if this law is passed and the clubs won't be able to operate like before. Many people thought that the 2017 prostitution law in Germany would not change anything, I thought it would affect pricing at the least, since the girls would use it as a pretext to charge more and I think I was more right on this.
However reading the Spanish forum, it might be that the PP letting this law advance was a tactic on their part to sow discord between the Socialists and Podemos who are far from united on this issue, right before and election year. The PP might eventually not support this law but wants the debate to go ahead in order to low discord on the left.
If the Popular Party do well in Andalusia, then the Popular Party will assume that they will win the next general election, then their worry is Vox and not the Socialists, so they then no longer have an incentive to support this law. I hope this law does not pass since although Spain is not great value for money as others have noted, it is great that we have another large scale alternative to Germany in Europe and I hope it remains that way.
I also love the food, culture and architecture in Spain. It is a better holiday destination than Germany overall.I cannot disagree with almost anything here. A good assessment. Spain is definitely a better holiday destination for the reasons you set out. The amount of money generated by prostitution in Spain cannot be ignored - $26 BILLION per year. The already dire Spanish economy would be badly hit. I just don't think this is more than political vote winning. With everyone knowing it just won't happen. I am still to hear even a hint of concern amongst the workers, bar owners, club owners. None of them believe it will happen.
For sure Germany will reap the benefits. But truth is, depending on venues, the whole tourist mongering experience is already so much better in Germany. Last week in Aca Gold NRW. With some really pretty girls who would rant as 8's at least in Scandalos, the opening price is 40 euros for 30 minutes. Cheap entry, good food, sunbathing with the naked ladies, then rooms for 40 euros! Of course at the other end the sharks in Sharks are seeking 200/ hour. Outrageous you say? Yep but that's cheap in Scandalos and it doesn't exist in Vive Madrid! I like mongering in Spain but I really would not be all that bothered if it did end. There are SO many good options in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, that it will just change the itinerary to mongering for a week in those lovely countries and off to Spain for a few days rest. But if it goes in Spain (highly unlikely) it should be across the board. But I very much doubt any of us will see a total ban in our lifetimes.
Andalus Expat
06-22-22, 13:13
I cannot disagree with almost anything here. A good assessment. Spain is definitely a better holiday destination for the reasons you set out. The amount of money generated by prostitution in Spain cannot be ignored - $26 BILLION per year. The already dire Spanish economy would be badly hit. I just don't think this is more than political vote winning. With everyone knowing it just won't happen. I am still to hear even a hint of concern amongst the workers, bar owners, club owners. None of them believe it will happen.
For sure Germany will reap the benefits. But truth is, depending on venues, the whole tourist mongering experience is already so much better in Germany. Last week in Aca Gold NRW. With some really pretty girls who would rant as 8's at least in Scandalos, the opening price is 40 euros for 30 minutes. Cheap entry, good food, sunbathing with the naked ladies, then rooms for 40 euros! Of course at the other end the sharks in Sharks are seeking 200/ hour. Outrageous you say? Yep but that's cheap in Scandalos and it doesn't exist in Vive Madrid! I like mongering in Spain but I really would not be all that bothered if it did end. There are SO many good options in Germany, Austria, Switzerland, that it will just change the itinerary to mongering for a week in those lovely countries and off to Spain for a few days rest. But if it goes in Spain (highly unlikely) it should be across the board. But I very much doubt any of us will see a total ban in our lifetimes.The 26 billion figure you no doubt got from the Guardian who've been waving it about with some vigour. It comes from a report by https://www.havocscope.com/prostitution-revenue-by-country/ who's name suggests has a particular agenda. It's methodology is buried in a book which I've no intention of wasting $2. 99 on. It implies the average revenue generated by each individual prostitute is 74 k euros a year. I'd very much like to meet her. UN report from 2016 estimated 3. 7 billion. That based on 300,000 women produces average earnings of 12.3 k which sounds a lot more realistic. Most prostitutes actually earn very little & use it to supplement other income. The 3. 7 figure may have risen a bit over the past 6 years, but not by much. '16 was about when general prices peaked & they haven't risen since. Yes. I know. You unfortunate patrons of the big puti clubs might have a different impression. But those clubs are a trivial part of the industry.
So why the wide discrepancy? Depends on what you're counting & why. All the revenue of the industry comes from the earnings of the girls. They are the ones paying for the apartments, villas & their rooms in the clubs, the advertising. The hospitality side of the business. Bars in clubs, for instance. Are just part of the hospitality industry. Although the kickbacks the girls get on girl-drinks does contribute to their earnings. But the bar drinks for the customers are fungible. It's a drink that would otherwise have been bought in a different sort of bar. Best guess is the 26 billion figure has been generated by a great deal of double, triple & quadruple counting of the same money by people who have little understanding how the industry functions. To quote "It's very hard to get someone to understand something who's job depends on them not understanding. " The Havocscope report also suggest prostitution in Spain generates one seventh of the world's revenue in the occupation. Out of a country with a population of 47 million? Sex-tourism only really benefits a few resort coasts & the capital. The vast majority of the clients are Spanish. The entirety of Spain's tourist industry only generated 77 billion in '16 & we've just gone through two years of that being virtually non-existent.
It's nonsense on stilts. Surprised you quoted it.
Andalus Expat
06-22-22, 19:36
Put that together with the 80% of the 350,000 working prostitutes are claimed to be foreign who would be sending home remittances to their country origin & it would add up to a significant figure in Spain's balance of trade. Now that really would be a reason to make prostitution illegal.
It's just a symptom of the entire debate around the subject. It's being conducted by people who are utterly clueless about the industry & how it functions. They aren't interested in finding out because to do so would conflict with the prior assumptions they base their campaign on.
When are these sex worker hating laws likely to be passed and enforced?
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/spanish-lawmakers-vote-whether-draw-up-laws-abolish-prostitution-2022-06-07/
Andalus Expat
06-28-22, 15:16
Since they get banged on about so much on here, seems worth talking about what they actually are & how legislation might affect them. Pretty well any town you go to in Spain will have one or more. They're the latest incarnation of the Spanish brothel's been part of the culture for centuries. They just stuck some neon on the roof & called it a "club". Since there's over 8000 municipalities in Spain you can reckon the total of clubs would be a significant proportion of that number. If you spend much time travelling out in the campo you get to learn where you find them. One I regularly frequented was at Durcal. A one horse town on the old road between Granada & the coast. Back of a commercial vehicle repairers, you needed to know where it was. Bar, pool table, dartboard, music. Usually 4-5 girls. Bloke ran the place would usually have my dry anis & ice, no water, on the bar before I could reach it. 4 euros. Clientele was the local blokes who'd chat with the girls, play pool or darts. There was a card school some nights. I can report the Spanish are generally optimists when it comes to poker. It's like a social club. The girls make there money from the drinks & tips as much as selling sex. Although they're always willing & hopeful. It's also the only place open at those sort of hours, which is why I used it. There was another one about 5 km along the road, bit more visible but not as good. And another near the Lanjaron turnoff from the carretera. But that burned down before I lived in the area. Aranda del Duero up in Burgos province has three. Two very small ones in the centre & a bigger on the outskirts. Nearest one to Almanara in Valencia is tucked down a side road by a bridge. You can see the neon for miles but finding what's under it is another matter. Coin has two. I challenge you to find the second one. All the cities have their small clubs if you can find them.
The bigger clubs you're more familiar with are the same thing writ large. Malaga City used to have three, now down to two. Granada a couple I know of. One by the Armilla retail park, other's on the western fringe. The other cities have similar. And there's the ones along the resort coasts cater primarily to holidaymakers both Spanish & foreign. For the Spanish they serve the same purpose as the smaller ones. They don't go to them just for sex. For that they go elsewhere. It's the hospitality side attracts.
So what happens to all this post legislation? My guess is the small ones will take the neon off the roof & carry on as ever. The rural Spanish are deeply conservative with a small "see". Particularly the working class. They've lived with the contradictions between the Catholic Church & the local brothel quite long enough. The police, the blokes use the clubs, the local politicians are all the same people tied together by friendships & family connections. There's going to absolutely no appetite for enforcement. The big ones I'm not so sure of. They're too high profile to be ignored by the sharp elbowed social reformers. Maybe they could adapt & survive. But the people who own them haven't had a new idea for decades. They're basically the same people who own the small ones in better suits. As for their supposed "voice" & influence, it doesn't exist. It's the small clubs have have the influence. That part of the industry dwarfs them.
Since they get banged on about so much on here, seems worth talking about what they actually are & how legislation might affect them. The big ones I'm not so sure of. They're too high profile to be ignored by the sharp elbowed social reformers. Maybe they could adapt & survive. But the people who own them haven't had a new idea for decades. They're basically the same people who own the small ones in better suits. As for their supposed "voice" & influence, it doesn't exist. It's the small clubs have have the influence. That part of the industry dwarfs them.All very interesting but (1) the big club owners are not the slightest bit worried about the proposed legislation. (2) it will be amended, re-amended and re-re-amended for so long the issue will likely die off before it is ever enacted (3) even if a semblance of it survives (which will probably if at all be reduced to increasing punishment for pimping) - a good thing; what's left STILL has to be voted on all over again. At which point unless it would have been so drastically diluted to be meaningless that it would be likely to be voted against to avoid it going to the Senate - where it would still need to be approved!!!
This is all prospective vote-winning, woke-driven, rights-led propaganda. It will be a small miracle if it ever comes to fruition as they envisage it.
But it almost doesn't matter at all anyway. Barcelona is about 1000 kms to Zurich. It's 13 hours drive to Stuttgart.
Switzerland, Austria, and Germany have thriving legal prostitution, well-managed, controlled and safe. Having spoken to several of the working girls in clubs in Malaga, Fuengirola, LOS Barrios and Madrid, it is clear that in the highly unlikely event that in say 2-3 years time (1) Spain did somehow get these laws through (big IF) and (2) IF they are looking like those laws will actually get enforced at all, and (3)IF this affects the big clubs, and (4) IF it impacts their income, THEN they will move down the road to where they can do this legally, or they'll just take their services underground (worse). That’s a LOT of IFs to get past!
The German FKK threads were dominated in 2016 and 2017 by the "new law". It made BBBJ illegal. Allegedly 5000 fines for both girl and customer if "caught". Stories that police were going to enter the clubs undercover as clients, get into the room, get a boner and when the girl was about to provide the BBBJ she would be arrested. Yeah sure. As if! 😂
So imagine the scene: our PC Horny gets his kit off, has some stunner in the room, he's had 2 beers, she is pretty / sexy, he's had some touching / foreplay, he's got his cock ready. He can either say "Whoa. Stop right there in the name of the law! Do NOT please my cock. You're under arrest instead". OR he can enjoy his BBBJ and skip the arrest. Tell his colleagues it was never offered. Shame. Maybe arrange to repeat a few nights later. More likely. 😉
The ONLY impact that new law had has been to give the girls an opportunity in German FKKs to increase prices with the "you know I shouldn't be doing this yeah? I need a tip”
So in some parts of Germany BBBJ is now an extra cost. But it is available everywhere. The law was a waste of paper - but no doubt won votes!
I will be astonished if we ever read of a single club closing, single arrest, single fine, or anybody going to jail unless there is a genuine pimping / abuse scenario in which case good job.
The big clubs don't need to abuse the girls. They have a very regular intake who are far from forced and many of them stay for 10+ years, and come back after having kids etc.
So the scare-mongering of many "it's all going to change in Spain"? It’s not. Read between the lines, see the bigger picture of spinning old favourites to win votes. Highly unlikely to change a jot, but even if it does, it's the neighbouring countries in Europe that will benefit, and alas Spain in any event is falling behind in terms of its offerings. Madrid and Malaga, and the climate, provide a cocktail of attraction to the sex traveller, but these options are way behind what is on offer around the world and even in Europe.
A day and night in an FKK hosting 100+ naked girls is never going to be matched by any attendance at a club in Spain. And here speaks someone who likes them!
The thermas in SA (not been but want to), the soapies in Thailand, BBBJ bars, and the fabulous walking streets in Asia all provide so many more options and entertainment on a different level for the sex traveller. Watch a band, watch a show, see a striptease, sex games, sexual gymnastics! And prices a quarter of those in Spain.
So for the little Spanish guys who go into the small clubs you mention - I hope for their sakes you are right and there is no enforcement. Let them go get their one beer a night and watch a bit of booty. Good on them.
As for the larger clubs, I very much doubt you'll ever see any change. But if it happens, for the reasons given, the sex tourist will just head off elsewhere. And they are doing that quite a lot anyway.
One of the excellent contributors to many threads is longstanding member is The Cane He for one (and he is not alone) has abandoned all mongering trips to Spain due to over-pricing / poor value for money. I have personally spent less time in Spanish clubs in 2022 than in any of the past 20 years including the pandemic.
Other locations in the world have so much more to offer. So if there is some silly law enacted which gives even a 1% risk to a punter, I am pretty sure that it will just result in those punters spending their cash elsewhere where options are better, cheaper and more plentiful. Of course some would say that's great. Job done - it’s what the legislation is trying to achieve. But it won’t anyway as it will push prostitution underground where trafficking is rife and people running unlicensed establishments do exploit girls.
Spain need not worry of course. The Brits will still come, invade their mini-Blackpools - Fuengirola, Torremolinos, Benalmadinas etc with their beer swilling, chip butty eating loud antics and burned bodies!
If the little Spanish guy can see two fat chicas at his local doing their twerk he’s ok.
But will serious sex punters travel to Spain for low options and any risk at all?
Nope and it's already becoming limited in its appeal before legislation.
The Spanish economy is already a disaster. Removing even a half percentage of its annual intake from the bigger clubs in Madrid, Barca, and Malaga might not seem like much - but those who frequent them are pumping money into the economy on hotels/travel/restaurants and more. That would all be lost too. The Spanish should be careful what they wish (and vote) for.
Mongerer88
06-30-22, 03:56
Great and accurate post, PayForIt.
There is too much ISG posted focus on legality and belief in completely unrealistic law enforcement activities.
The selling of time and companionship trumps most simplistic laws.
There is one provision in Spain's proposed law that is of concern, which is the imposition of fines on landlords.
Hopefully the landlord lobby will get it removed on the grounds that no one wants a system where landlords must spy on tenants.
A sex worker has to have a place to work. That is a stranglehold in the system if it is removed.
Andalus Expat
06-30-22, 14:58
All very interesting but (1) the big club owners are not the slightest bit worried about the proposed legislation. (2) it will be amended, re-amended and re-re-amended for so long the issue will likely die off before it is ever enacted (3) even if a semblance of it survives (which will probably if at all be reduced to increasing punishment for pimping) - a good thing; what's left STILL has to be voted on all over again. At which point unless it would have been so drastically diluted to be meaningless that it would be likely to be voted against to avoid it going to the Senate - where it would still need to be approved!!!
This is all prospective vote-winning, woke-driven, rights-led propaganda. It will be a small miracle if it ever comes to fruition as they envisage it.
But it almost doesn't matter at all anyway. Barcelona is about 1000 kms to Zurich. It's 13 hours drive to Stuttgart.
Switzerland, Austria, and Germany have thriving legal prostitution, well-managed, controlled and safe. Having spoken to several of the working girls in clubs in Malaga, Fuengirola, LOS Barrios and Madrid, it is clear that in the highly unlikely event that in say 2-3 years time (1) Spain did somehow get these laws through (big IF) and (2) IF they are looking like those laws will actually get enforced at all, and (3)IF this affects the big clubs, and (4) IF it impacts their income, THEN they will move down the road to where they can do this legally, or they'll just take their services underground (worse). Thats a LOT of IFs to get past! I think you're very wrong about the politics, PayForIt. Every country in Europe has a vociferous feminist lobby opposed to prostitution. I was surprised France got its legislation. France is far more socially liberal than Spain. But it happened. This is the culmination of Gramci's "Long March through the institutions". The institutions of Europe have been hollowed out by a particular flavour of activist left wing politics & the institutions aren't subject to democratic control. The politicians dance to their tunes. It's never really about the issues. It's always about control. Europe now has a totally unrealistic & unworkable decarbonisation agenda. It's causing enormous economic damage. Nobody actually voted for this. Or if they did, they didn't know what they voted for. But we have it. Look at the UK & transgender rights. Something that benefits 0. 01% of the population but lays the onus of respecting them on 99.99. You think there was any popular demand for this from Dave & Lynn down the pub? Dave still cracks a hilarious line in queer jokes & Lynn's concerned about her kids & paedos. The latest upgrade came to Spain in April. You reckon José & Maria en la calle thought this a pressing need? Outlawing the frequenting of prostitutes will role across Europe with each country submitting being the excuse for the next. All because "they care so deeply about the plight of the vulnerable girls being forced into this vile occupation". No doubt it'll in due course be incorporated into European law so they can put a gun to the head of dissenting countries. See Poland & Hungary on other matters now. And Germany's ripe for it. They've already shut down their nuclear plants prostrating themselves to the Greens.
Where I do thoroughly agree with you is it'll make little practical difference to the girls & their clients. The guys want a fuck & the girls want the money. Something that's been going on since Ug was exchanging knapped flints for beaver is not going to disappear just because of shouty women with bad hair not approving. Drugs have been illegal for long enough. I could source you as much primo charlie as you could carry with one quick phone call. It's easier now than it's ever been. I've punted with no trouble in France since their legislation. Swedes I know seem to manage in Sweden.
Sex tourism on Spain? I don't think the Spanish give a toss. They'd rather you weren't here. The only people who really benefit are a few clubs because you don't know anything else. Foreigners who live here or have connections with the country, second homes here, are much more important. More money gets put around wider. But few of us even use the clubs. Sorry but 15 sweaty oiks in Estark for a beer & a half hour does not an economy make. The people you are deriding in the resort "Blackpools" are Spain's bread & butter. Volume beats quality every time. But they're here for sun sand & sangria, rarely sex. Do you actually know anything about Germany apart from your FKK's? Again, they're a very small part of what the country has to offer the punter. If the legislation hits Germany, they may go because they depend on advertising. Like France, the rest will continue relatively untroubled.
Yep, it's going to be difficult to hunt pussy when travelling in Europe. It won't be served up on a plate. You'll have to learn something about the country.
Other continents? You wouldn't catch me anywhere near the Arab world. Don't like them, don't trust them. Thailand? Half way round the world for third world peasants when you can get the cream in London or Paris? South America sounds more like it. At this rate I may end up living there. Probably Brasil, Bahia. I prefer the culture over Colombian although Cartagena's tempting. I am rather pissed this year's Moscow jaunt been put on the back burner. Bloody Putin. Never been there but I fancy it's a city I could operate in. Lots of contacts there. Top class girls at £100/2 hours! Can't see the Woke triumphing in Russia. Not against tanks.
Foreigners who live here or have connections with the country, second homes here, are much more important. More money gets put around wider. But few of us even use the clubs. Do you actually know anything about Germany apart from your FKK's?
Yep, it's going to be difficult to hunt pussy when travelling in Europe. It won't be served up on a plate. You'll have to learn something about the country.
Well as a home owner in Spain I am delighted you consider me important.
I know a host of home owners in Spain who use the big clubs. I meet a lot of them in them!
I know quite a lot about Germany irrespective of FKKs and have a business there.
It won't be difficult to hunt pussy in Europe at all. As you rightly said, guys want to fuck and girls want the buck. It is easy.
I know plenty about Spain, Germany, Thailand, Dubai, the UK.
Oh and. I don't like Blackpool and I don't like Blackpool in the Sun!
Andalus Expat
07-02-22, 14:49
Oh and. I don't like Blackpool and I don't like Blackpool in the Sun!Why have a house here & not the Cote de Azur? (To avoid post submission editing into nonsense) A list people rather than see list. It's Spain. Hasn't been fashionable since 1920's. Possibly the same reason I do. Damned expensive (but also too close to my ex-wife! I have almost nothing to do with the Brit ex-pat community or its tourists. Avoid them like the plague. I left the UK so I could live alongside foreigners of my choice. And I'm from Central London. Most of the UK's as foreign to me as here. I do know a lot of punters here though. Spanish, the range of ex-pats & regular visitors. And from the rich to the skint.
Germany's the one country in Europe I prefer to avoid. Despite living a couple hours drive from it for several years. Pass through, don't stop. It was far better when there were two of them. That FKKs exist is part of the reason. Only Germans could want them.
Why have a house here & not the Cote de Azur? A list people rather than see list. It's Spain. Hasn't been fashionable since 1920's. Possibly the same reason I do. And I'm from Central London. Most of the UK's as foreign to me as here.
Germany's the one country in Europe I prefer to avoid. Despite living a couple hours drive from it for several years. Pass through, don't stop. It was far better when there were two of them. That FKKs exist is part of the reason. Only Germans could want them.I am a keen golfer (5.1 handicap) so Costa del Golf beats France any day. I also prefer the language. Marbella was incredibly fashionable in the 70's but I was very young so didn't ever visit in its real heyday. I loved Banus in the 90's before it got tacky and I worked there for 5 years when A list very much visited there. There is still a lot of money in and around CDS particularly in Zagaleta.
You should venture around the UK. Many parts of it are stunning (including Scotland, the Lakes, Cotswolds, Cornwall (which has better beaches than anywhere on the CDS) and part of Wales. Germany has some equally beautiful places. Bavaria is stunning, Hamburg is a lovely city (rich) ignoring the tacky Reep. Not only Germans want FKKs. Indeed most Germans complain about the amount of tourists in FKKs and how much they are willing to pay for girls which ups prices for locals. You should travel a bit more!
Andalus Expat
07-03-22, 05:01
I am a keen golfer (5.1 handicap) so Costa del Golf beats France any day. I also prefer the language. Marbella was incredibly fashionable in the 70's but I was very young so didn't ever visit in its real heyday. I loved Banus in the 90's before it got tacky and I worked there for 5 years when A list very much visited there. There is still a lot of money in and around CDS particularly in Zagaleta.
You should venture around the UK. Many parts of it are stunning (including Scotland, the Lakes, Cotswolds, Cornwall (which has better beaches than anywhere on the CDS) and part of Wales. Germany has some equally beautiful places. Bavaria is stunning, Hamburg is a lovely city (rich) ignoring the tacky Reep. Not only Germans want FKKs. Indeed most Germans complain about the amount of tourists in FKKs and how much they are willing to pay for girls which ups prices for locals. You should travel a bit more!I share Churchill's opinion of golf. Puerto Banus was great in the 80's. Before it tried to turn itself into an imitation Juan-Les-Pins. I tried living in the apartment there for a few weeks around 2012. Then went & found somewhere real. You can't get round it. Juan-Les-Pins you can be dining in a restaurant with the Secretary of State of the USA & a top movie actress. PB it'll be a footballer & a Big Brother bint. (Done both) Marbella fashionable? Who with? The Russian mafia or UK used car salesmen? I suppose I live here because I've got to live somewhere. I've been long past needing to work for years. Anything I choose to do can be done on-line, dodgy Spanish internet permitting. And the putas are enormous fun when you get to know them. Best in Europe. But the cuisine's a joke. Mostly we eat at S. American places frequented by S. Americans. They don't boil vegetables to submission.
I can't think of anywhere in Europe would want the FKK experience. Presumably why only Germany has it. A room full of naked women strutting their stuff? It's about as subtle as a butchers shop. Do you really find that sexually stimulating? I don't know how you'd cope with a real FKK. Keep your towel in your lap I suppose. Most of Europe (The World?) want erotic, not in your face. But as I implied, Germans are odd. I was sitting in a bar in Frankfurt one night, killing time for a train connection. Ordinary bar. Few people & couples sitting around drinking. Screen unrolled itself from the ceiling & we were given 10 minutes of hardcore porn. Nobody even glanced at it. The why of it completely escaped me. But Germans. Baveria was OK. But Catholic Germany. Different culture. And most of my dealings were with the US military furthering the region's wine exports.
The chances of me ever returning to the UK are less than zero. Done that. Got the T-shirt.
"You should travel a bit more!" Every country in mainland Europe bar Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, Greece & some of the new Balkans. All by road. Only way to really see anywhere. An Algerian village in the Sahara for several months via the ferry & Morocco. Sierra Leone (a shithole). NYC & NJ but not as a tourist. Rest of the USA would require a lifetime. But you're right. I should travel more. I regularly get told to fuck off.
I can't think of anywhere in Europe would want the FKK experience. Presumably why only Germany has it.Not correct. Switzerland and Austria also have it. It's a great experience.
A room full of naked women strutting their stuff? It's about as subtle as a butchers shop. Do you really find that sexually stimulating? I don't know how you'd cope with a real FKK. Keep your towel in your lap I suppose.Oh for sure. The first time I went (Artemis in Berlin 2013) I had a boner for the first hour and a half and when the girls ask their normal "first time here" question, trying to deny it was impossible. Three weeks ago I spent a glorious afternoon at FKK Oase, on a sun lounger, having just enjoyed a BBQ, surrounded by about 60 totally naked ladies though quite a few kept their hooker shoes on whilst walking around the pool. Some just lying naked on sunbeds, several naked in the pool, some naked playing table tennis, volleyball and soccer. I had a very nice suntan oil massage from two of the girls who ensured that not an inch of my body was going to get sunburned! So back to your question. Did I find it all sexually stimulating? Erm, let me think for a millisecond. Yep. Massively! I get your point. After a week of FKKs and naked bodies it can be a bit boring. You want the allure. But then you just ensure you go to an FKK on dessous day when they are all in lingerie. Or (not for me) but you can go to FKK Oceans in Dusseldorf which has become a nightclub. Guys all in own clothes not towels etc.
I regularly get told to fuck off.Not entirely sure what you might have thought a response would be. How about "if the cap fits" 😂 Only joking!
Not entirely sure what you might have thought a response would be. How about "if the cap fits" Only joking!LOLOLOL! Hahaha!
Andalus Expat
07-04-22, 19:11
Not correct. Switzerland and Austria also have it. It's a great experience.
Oh for sure. The first time I went (Artemis in Berlin 2013) I had a boner for the first hour and a half and when the girls ask their normal "first time here" question, trying to deny it was impossible. Three weeks ago I spent a glorious afternoon at FKK Oase, on a sun lounger, having just enjoyed a BBQ, surrounded by about 60 totally naked ladies though quite a few kept their hooker shoes on whilst walking around the pool. Some just lying naked on sunbeds, several naked in the pool, some naked playing table tennis, volleyball and soccer. I had a very nice suntan oil massage from two of the girls who ensured that not an inch of my body was going to get sunburned! So back to your question. Did I find it all sexually stimulating? Erm, let me think for a millisecond. Yep. Massively! I get your point. After a week of FKKs and naked bodies it can be a bit boring. You want the allure. But then you just ensure you go to an FKK on dessous day when they are all in lingerie. Or (not for me) but you can go to FKK Oceans in Dusseldorf which has become a nightclub. Guys all in own clothes not towels etc.
Not entirely sure what you might have thought a response would be. How about "if the cap fits" Only joking!You certainly make fine attempt to sell FKKs, PayForIt. But you're trying to flog something that hardly anybody wants. Or they wouldn't be mainly in German speaking countries. (Switzerland may be interesting regarding attempts to curb prostitution. This may be a canton matter, not federal. There may not be a uniform result) It's not something you can market & sell down in Spain or someone would be doing so. (Same applies to other countries) You can't sell parties in Spain either, although they're big in the UK. Not the demand. Despite your attempts to make it so, this whole legislation issue is not about personal preferences. What will follow, if it succeeds, will be in accordance with what the majority desire. Not the minority.
It's not hard to foresee a situation where post legislation enforcement would come down hard on the less popular but high profile activities. Produce the required column inches in the media with the message "Something is being done". The unpopular will be sacrificed for the popular.
You certainly make fine attempt to sell FKKs, PayForIt. But you're trying to flog something that hardly anybody wants. Or they wouldn't be mainly in German speaking countries.The termas of Brazil also use a sauna club model like the FKKs. And although I have not been to Macau and don't have any first-hand experience on how things work there, I understand that they have sauna sex clubs there too. I don't know about anybody else, but the sauna club model in Brazil and Germany make those two countries my favorites for taking sex vacations to. And if Switzerland as a general destination wasn't so expensive, I would put it on the list too (loved Vienna as a city but did not care for the talent and overall scene in the Austrian clubs so much). Plenty of people want the FKKs, and the Brazilian termas too. And they're flying in from points all over the world to get to them!
You certainly make fine attempt to sell FKKs, PayForIt. But you're trying to flog something that hardly anybody wants. Or they wouldn't be mainly in German speaking countries. (Switzerland may be interesting regarding attempts to curb prostitution. This may be a canton matter, not federal. There may not be a uniform result) It's not something you can market & sell down in Spain or someone would be doing so. (Same applies to other countries) You can't sell parties in Spain either, although they're big in the UK. Not the demand. Despite your attempts to make it so, this whole legislation issue is not about personal preferences. What will follow, if it succeeds, will be in accordance with what the majority desire. Not the minority.
It's not hard to foresee a situation where post legislation enforcement would come down hard on the less popular but high profile activities. Produce the required column inches in the media with the message "Something is being done". The unpopular will be sacrificed for the popular.You are quite right about the spanish culture of puticlubs and FKKs not very popular outside the german speaking countries. The problem with FKK is that it is interesting once or twice but not something you want to do everyday, because there are many naked guys also around so it feels kinda weird. I mean that's a cultural thing, maybe germans are fine with it but many others are not.
About the spanish way of going to puticlubs the problem is that in small cities many locals tend to avoid it because they are married or have many friends and family members living around so the thought of being spotted in a puticlub or around one by someone scares the shit out of them (to be fair it is same everywhere, you don't want your uncle to see you in a puticlub). Thats why in many small resorts most of the puticlubs clients are tourists and locals tend to go to private houses and apartments so no one can catch them red handed. Maybe price is also a factor for some but it is not the biggest one (spanish are actually quite loose when it comes to spending for these things).
The problem with FKK is that it is interesting once or twice but not something you want to do everyday, because there are many naked guys also around so it feels kinda weird. I mean that's a cultural thing, maybe Germans are fine with it but many others are not.This is totally untrue. Virtually all of the men are wearing a robe, or at the very least, a towel wrapped around the waist. Other than in the shower (which is fine), I have rarely ever seen any naked guys walking around the clubs. In fact, I can only recall two. There was an old German guy walking around Club Babylon in Elsdorf with a towel draped over his shoulder. The guy needed to put on a robe or something as his body was not a sight to behold! Then one time at Artemis, a much younger guy probably in his late 20's to early 30's was acting a fool running around naked, an even got up alongside a pole and started dancing! The truth is that the overwhelming number of over male patrons at the FKK clubs wear a robe, and if not that, then a towel wrapped around the waste. Male nudity in the main public areas of the club is the exception rather than the rule. Thank God for that!
Andalus Expat
07-18-22, 11:02
The problem with FKK is that it is interesting once or twice but not something you want to do everyday, because there are many naked guys also around so it feels kinda weird. I mean that's a cultural thing, maybe Germans are fine with it but many others are not.
About the spanish way of going to puticlubs the problem is that in small cities many locals tend to avoid it because they are married or have many friends and family members living around so the thought of being spotted in a puticlub or around one by someone scares the shit out of them (to be fair it is same everywhere, you don't want your uncle to see you in a puticlub). That's why in many small resorts most of the puticlubs clients are tourists and locals tend to go to private houses and apartments so no one can catch them red handed. Maybe price is also a factor for some but it is not the biggest one (spanish are actually quite loose when it comes to spending for these things).I can only remind you that FKK is an abbreviation of freikorperkultur & the vast majority of FKKs are nudist clubs. I often wonder what happens to Brits who find themselves in the wrong ones.
With the small clubs, I don't think the discretion thing is much of a factor. There's always been an acceptance in Spain that men will wander & err & it's rather better they do so on a pay-to-play basis rather than with someone's wife or daughter. It's why the brothels were part of the culture in the first place. I guess the Spanish avoid the clubs in the small resort towns because they're infested with tourists. The way they use them & the way tourists use them are incompatible. You don't see many Spanish eating or drinking in tourist oriented restaurants & bars either.
Mention the big clubs to most Spanish & they generally show disinterest. Press the matter & they start giving you strange looks. If you think about how many girls there are working outside them & how many clients are needed to keep them fed you realize they're very much a minority interest.
I can only remind you that FKK is an abbreviation of freikorperkultur & the vast majority of FKKs are nudist clubs. I often wonder what happens to Brits who find themselves in the wrong ones.
You have a most unfortunate and very irritating habit of talking absolute rubbish about things you don't know the first thing about. The "vast majority" of FKK clubs are NOT nudist. I have visited exactly 31 of them in the past 9 years. Only the Hessen clubs are completely nudist and even in them there are complaints that the girls are dressing parts of their bodies. So it's not the "vast" majority and it's not even the "majority". Whatever the translation is, what is as a matter of fact is a million miles from what you are describing.
I wholly disagree with Qaz that it is "interesting once or twice". But he's entitled to his view. Truth is that if you visit the FKK forums you'll find guys who found it interesting enough not to visit "once or twice" but over 5000 times! I don't blame them. It's fantastic. It is 100% why I don't give a flying you know what if the legislation kills punting in Spain. The FKK experience, for those who use it frequently and know their way around the various types (yes there are) of FKKs don't find it the slightest bit uninteresting.
Brits don't "find themselves in the wrong one" at all. Not ever. They research. They ask questions. They plan their trips.
It would be genuinely great if members would restrict their comments to what they actually know instead of guessing and spouting total nonsense.
Andalus Expat
07-19-22, 03:28
You have a most unfortunate and very irritating habit of talking absolute rubbish about things you don't know the first thing about. The "vast majority" of FKK clubs are NOT nudist. I have visited exactly 31 of them in the past 9 years. Only the Hessen clubs are completely nudist and even in them there are complaints that the girls are dressing parts of their bodies. So it's not the "vast" majority and it's not even the "majority". Whatever the translation is, what is as a matter of fact is a million miles from what you are describing.
I wholly disagree with Qaz that it is "interesting once or twice". But he's entitled to his view. Truth is that if you visit the FKK forums you'll find guys who found it interesting enough not to visit "once or twice" but over 5000 times! I don't blame them. It's fantastic. It is 100% why I don't give a flying you know what if the legislation kills punting in Spain. The FKK experience, for those who use it frequently and know their way around the various types (yes there are) of FKKs don't find it the slightest bit uninteresting.
Brits don't "find themselves in the wrong one" at all. Not ever. They research. They ask questions. They plan their trips.
It would be genuinely great if members would restrict their comments to what they actually know instead of guessing and spouting total nonsense.PayForIt. I lived & worked in Germany for a while when we were fortunate to have two of them. Freikorperkultur goes back I believe to the early part of the C20th. It's even more popular today. It was often abbreviated as & generally referred to as FKK. It's a nudist movement. Very often private clubs although FKK laws allow some activities in public. Sitting around in the fresh air, sports, swimming often in lakes & rivers. But public sexual activities are generally rather frowned on. Your grubby sex clubs seemed to have purloined* the term. Same as the Spanish clubs have appropriated "night club" without actually offering any of the amenities of one. 31 clubs eh? The FKK movement runs to millions. Suggest you learn something about Germany other than where the sex clubs are.
*But the Germans would steal anything. Your country if you're not careful.
As for the FKK experience. Depends if you find that sort of thing erotic. Do you find walking along a CDS beach erotic? The difference is often only 3 or 4 square inches of fabric. Erotic is about temptation. Visually, as much about what you can't see as what you can. Why there's a thriving lingerie industry.
PayForIt. I lived & worked in Germany for a while when we were fortunate to have two of them. Freikorperkultur goes back I believe to the early part of the C20th. It's even more popular today. It was often abbreviated as & generally referred to as FKK. It's a nudist movement. Very often private clubs although FKK laws allow some activities in public. Sitting around in the fresh air, sports, swimming often in lakes & rivers. But public sexual activities are generally rather frowned on. Your grubby sex clubs seemed to have purloined* the term. Same as the Spanish clubs have appropriated "night club" without actually offering any of the amenities of one. 31 clubs eh? The FKK movement runs to millions. Suggest you learn something about Germany other than where the sex clubs are.
*But the Germans would steal anything. Your country if you're not careful.
As for the FKK experience. Depends if you find that sort of thing erotic. Do you find walking along a CDS beach erotic? The difference is often only 3 or 4 square inches of fabric. Erotic is about temptation. Visually, as much about what you can't see as what you can. Why there's a thriving lingerie industry.This is regrettably more nonsense in a (lame) attempt to cover what has been exposed which is that you wrote complete nonsense in your response to Qaz by saying that the "vast majority" of these clubs are nudist. Whatever their history or literal meaning, we are talking about now. This forum exists to assist people who are interested in sexual encounters in the present. If you want to write about what was available 50 years ago start a blog.
There are most definitely not "millions" of clubs. There maybe millions of the general public who like to be nude. FKK clubs as they are known in 2022 offer ladies for sex. You say that public sex is "frowned upon". This is rubbish. In some clubs, e. G. Globe outside Zurich, Tuesday is actually "public sex" day! It is expected not frowned upon. Guys don't even take girls to the room, They will be on lounge chairs having BBBJs and having sex. Doors to private rooms are left open. For a long time prior to the renovations FKK Oase in Friedrichsdorf near Frankfurt had a lot of public sex in the kino area and there are still beds outside where guys take girls in the summer for some outdoor fun which is public. Many FKKs have kinos where the sex is again public. "Frowned upon"? Not one jot.
Whether you lived in Germany years ago or not is pretty irrelevant. What you have described are old fashioned nudist clubs with some ugly sights. That is a million miles away from what in reality the hundreds (not millions) of modern FKK clubs offer.
Let's just keep the factual information accurate please. Opinions are of course fine. You find Spanish clubs "grubby" and that is entirely your prerogative. You may consider the above type FKK experience not to your liking. Fair enough. But what is most certainly not at all fair, is for you to paint a completely false picture of what the experience is like, that there are millions of these places where the vast majority are full of fat nudies. Not so. Miles away from being so. Keep it real please.
I agree that the experience is a matter of taste. I don't find walking along a CDS beach erotic because the beaches are packed with fat, beer-swilling, drunk tourists where guys with large bellies wear speedos. Erotic? Erm, no. Or ladies in their 50's or 60's who are also drinking pints of lager all day, are squeezed into some ill-fitting bikini where you cannot see the few inches of fabric you refer to because of their overhang belly. Nope. Not erotic either. Let's call one of them Mary. I have no idea if Mary is up for an hour's romp in bed. But if she is, sadly not with me Mary! I'll skip thanks.
Let's contrast my recent experience one Friday in Oase. 3 pm, laying on a sun lounger around the pool. Over 80 ladies enjoying the sun. Ok one or two might have needed to lose a few pounds. Not many though. Ages from 18 to about 35 max. The "vast majority" being slim, upright boobs, tanned bodies and several of them athletic. Some wearing the odd bit of lingerie but most not. Those walking around the pool rather than in it or playing games with the guys in hooker shoes to accentuate the long legs.
Now, enjoying the scenery of many beautiful naked ladies ready and willing to pleasure you when you are ready. None of them look like Mary. I'll confess the experience had its difficulties. I just couldn't decide which of those stunning ladies to take first. Mary was nowhere to be seen. Did I enjoy this day? Erm, Yes. Would I have preferred a stroll along an CDS beach? Even without Mary? No. Did I find the whole experience erotic? Pretty much though any doubt was removed when two beautiful Brazilian girls came to my sun lounger and spent 30 minutes making sure my suntan oil covered literally every inch of my body. Did I find it erotic?
Ok, I'll confess I did a little bit.
You have a most unfortunate and very irritating habit of talking absolute rubbish about things you don't know the first thing about. The "vast majority" of FKK clubs are NOT nudist. I have visited exactly 31 of them in the past 9 years. Only the Hessen clubs are completely nudist and even in them there are complaints that the girls are dressing parts of their bodies. So it's not the "vast" majority and it's not even the "majority". Whatever the translation is, what is as a matter of fact is a million miles from what you are describing.
I wholly disagree with Qaz that it is "interesting once or twice". But he's entitled to his view. Truth is that if you visit the FKK forums you'll find guys who found it interesting enough not to visit "once or twice" but over 5000 times! I don't blame them. It's fantastic. It is 100% why I don't give a flying you know what if the legislation kills punting in Spain. The FKK experience, for those who use it frequently and know their way around the various types (yes there are) of FKKs don't find it the slightest bit uninteresting.
Brits don't "find themselves in the wrong one" at all. Not ever. They research. They ask questions. They plan their trips.
It would be genuinely great if members would restrict their comments to what they actually know instead of guessing and spouting total nonsense.FKK in itself means the culture of free body and naturism, it has nothing to do with sex or erotism. But FKK clubs are different, they are meant to be about sex and erotsim, I mean that's why guys go there, so it is just a name that clubs have decided to use, nothing to do with meaning of the word (maybe they chose it because some girls are naked in there).
Just because I think they are interesting for once or twice doesn't mean that I'm right or wrong, its a matter of personal taste, I have never been to one so dunno how it is inside but the thought of semi naked guys (with towels) walking around is not to my likings,(I personally don't like seeing other guys having boners and stuff, even tho they have towels) , however I love the thought of being the only guy in FKK club (hahah maybe its possible to book one for a day).
The legislation even if passed won't kill punting at all. There is no way to enforce it and spain is one of the biggest, if not the biggest tourist destination in the world, many girls come here just to work, (head to ibiza, mallorca etc you will find many who come from other countries just to work there during the summer months) they can't harm all those businesses with a law that can only cause the business to go underground.
Andalus Expat
07-21-22, 13:50
FKK in itself means the culture of free body and naturism, it has nothing to do with sex or erotism. But FKK clubs are different, they are meant to be about sex and erotsim, I mean that's why guys go there, so it is just a name that clubs have decided to use, nothing to do with meaning of the word (maybe they chose it because some girls are naked in there).
Just because I think they are interesting for once or twice doesn't mean that I'm right or wrong, its a matter of personal taste, I have never been to one so dunno how it is inside but the thought of semi naked guys (with towels) walking around is not to my likings,(I personally don't like seeing other guys having boners and stuff, even tho they have towels) , however I love the thought of being the only guy in FKK club (hahah maybe its possible to book one for a day).
The legislation even if passed won't kill punting at all. There is no way to enforce it and Spain is one of the biggest, if not the biggest tourist destination in the world, many girls come here just to work, (head to Ibiza, mallorca etc you will find many who come from other countries just to work there during the summer months) they can't harm all those businesses with a law that can only cause the business to go underground.It's seems fairly obvious that they've called themselves FKKs so they can hide behind the FKK laws. Much the same as the fiction that a Spanish puti club is a "nightclub". Although with Germany it may simply be the optics. No one wants a brothel openly operating on their doorstep.
As far as the reported FKK experience, I imagine I'm like you. The idea of being surrounded by middle-aged overweight Germans making little tents in their towels is horrifying. And all very juvenile. I don't find naked women particularly sexy. More commonplace. We use the nudist beaches sometimes because xicas like an all over tan. We talk with other girls there, some who obviously work. So what? We're there for the sun. I suppose it depends on why one's using prostitutes in the first place. Having seen a considerable number of the clients it's fairly obvious, for some of them, paying for it is the only way they'd get sex. Other's it for eroticism. Variety. Different experiences. Fantasies made real. It's a lot easier than trying to score civilians. Obligations, lack of. They go home after. And in the long run a damn sight cheaper. (Swinger clubs can be fun. As long as they're not the ones get infested with solo tossers. But you have to be comfortable with having sex in the presence of other people. And depends on the people. But they are very much more about eroticism than just sex.).
And that's really the answer to the economic argument you've raised over the Spanish legislation. One doubts there'll be much enthusiasm for enforcing it once the first, post introduction, flurry is out of the way. But that's domestic consumption. Foreign sex tourists is a whole other matter. Spain does not want you coming here. The economic benefit is trivial. What there is ends up in a few pockets. Most of the girls aren't even Spanish. Spain (authorities & the people) would be overjoyed to be rid of both you & the girls*. I'm expecting it to be the one area where they will be enthusiastically enforcing. And that will produce the "something is being seen to be done" which is the political point of a great deal of legislation.
But like I've been saying, that isn't going to mean there won't good punting in Spain for foreigners. I'm foreign & I expect to continue. Far as I'm concerned I reckon it'll improve. The girls will be far more interested in building up regular client bases than clipping outsiders with lies, false photos & hyped prices.
*Doubt if you realize how much trouble the girls themselves can be. Illegal residence & working for a start. Crime. Thieving. From the clients, each other, anyone else, shoplifting. Credit card fraud & any other fraud you care to mention. Drugs. Abuse & addiction. Selling them. Drunkenness & alcoholism. General ant****ial behaviour. Violence. By them & on them, often provoked by their behaviour.
Just because I think they are interesting for once or twice doesn't mean that I'm right or wrong, its a matter of personal taste, I have never been to one so dunno how it is inside but the thought of semi naked guys (with towels) walking around is not to my likings,(I personally don't like seeing other guys having boners and stuff, even tho they have towels) , however I love the thought of being the only guy in FKK club (hahah maybe its possible to book one for a day).
.I agree it is a matter of taste but you really would have to try one to know what that taste is like! Trust me, you will seriously not be bothered about guys in towels (actually most have full length robes). I say you won't be bothered as you will struggle to take your eyes off the fabulous selection of naked ladies. It is a "never to be forgotten" experience. And if you do try it and get the taste for it (I defy most men with blood in their veins who like sexy young girls not to) then you'll find that unlike visiting clubs in Spain or elsewhere where it all blurs into one, somehow your experiences of FKKs seem to remain long in the memory. It's a fabulous taste / experience. I highly recommend it to anyone.
SueTonius2
07-28-22, 21:08
Spain is poised to become the next country to implement the so-called Nordic Model. This model punishes the client: a fine and / or imprisonment.
Astonishingly, nearly all political parties seem to agree. Carceral feminists rule in Spain. They have been helped by the international, subsidized abolitionist lobbies.
I hadn't read about Spain's scene before. Now that I have, and now that I know there are really good young talents available at the fixed price of 200 euros (apparently this is the top-end price), Barcelona became a very interesting destination. Since there is a website where locals review the girls, this is a huge advantage for a tourist.
But, Barcelona is rather expensive place, and only a valid vacation spot at summer time.
So, my question is, which country and city could compete with the selection of Glammodele and BlueVelvet, with the price tag of 200 euros (or less)? I shun away from those horrid silicone-botox monsters, IG-bimbos and 28 year old women who pretend to be 22, while looking more like 35 because of all the alcohol, tobacco and lack of physical exercise. Natural beauties is what I'm after. I think I just had my share of skinny & petite girls filled.
I hadn't read about Spain's scene before. Now that I have, and now that I know there are really good young talents available at the fixed price of 200 euros (apparently this is the top-end price), Barcelona became a very interesting destination. Since there is a website where locals review the girls, this is a huge advantage for a tourist.
But, Barcelona is rather expensive place, and only a valid vacation spot at summer time.
So, my question is, which country and city could compete with the selection of Glammodele and BlueVelvet, with the price tag of 200 euros (or less)? I shun away from those horrid silicone-botox monsters, IG-bimbos and 28 year old women who pretend to be 22, while looking more like 35 because of all the alcohol, tobacco and lack of physical exercise. Natural beauties is what I'm after. I think I just had my share of skinny & petite girls filled.Try madrid and costa del sol. In the summer I def recommend costa del sol.
Try madrid and costa del sol. In the summer I def recommend costa del sol.But they are both in Spain? My point was to ask that if some more experienced traveler would know the level of Barcelona and would be able to point out that truly there is another place where this can be achieved.
But if you meant to point out that these places are more affordable in living costs, then I understand. Madrid has some girls from the agencies, yes, but it will be smaller selection. Costa del Sol seems to have a high price in terms of girls, from what I read about the 'clubs', but I highly doubt the availability of top-end girls at 200 euros would be the same as in Barcelona.
With flights, accommodation and food, the cost of a girl for one hour will be from 400 euros to 600 euros on a week long trip, depending if one is able to fuck 3 times one hour or 5 times one hour. Considering the amount of money it takes (2000 e), it would be essential to enjoy the week also in other terms, like that of the weather or a nice, affordable country where one can eat and drink without worrying how much it costs.
So, if the country is cheap but the girls are top notch and "expensive" (let's say the 200 is the limit, since I haven't paid that much for years and it used to be the stantard price for 1 hour girls in my country), that would be ideal destination.
But they are both in Spain? My point was to ask that if some more experienced traveler would know the level of Barcelona and would be able to point out that truly there is another place where this can be achieved.
But if you meant to point out that these places are more affordable in living costs, then I understand. Madrid has some girls from the agencies, yes, but it will be smaller selection. Costa del Sol seems to have a high price in terms of girls, from what I read about the 'clubs', but I highly doubt the availability of top-end girls at 200 euros would be the same as in Barcelona.
With flights, accommodation and food, the cost of a girl for one hour will be from 400 euros to 600 euros on a week long trip, depending if one is able to fuck 3 times one hour or 5 times one hour. Considering the amount of money it takes (2000 e), it would be essential to enjoy the week also in other terms, like that of the weather or a nice, affordable country where one can eat and drink without worrying how much it costs.
So, if the country is cheap but the girls are top notch and "expensive" (let's say the 200 is the limit, since I haven't paid that much for years and it used to be the stantard price for 1 hour girls in my country), that would be ideal destination.Check out slumi, com marbella and euroescortgirl marbella to see top girls and their prices.
Check out slumi, com marbella and euroescortgirl marbella to see top girls and their prices.This is not the same. Certain agencies have pictures that are very near to the reality, if not actually unmodified apart from hiding the girl's tattoos. When the girls area like in the pictures, and when they are in the pictures extremely good looking, I'm willing to pay the 200 price which I thought I would never bother to pay again.
The sites you mention do not provide such photos and they are not to be trusted in regard of the girls age. If as a client one is looking for a girl in excellent shape around 22 years old and is ready to pay for this, it's unacceptable to have a 27 year old, possibly one that has had a child.
I've read a lot of this forum's Europe-section and it seems like that Russia is the place where one can get near-to-reality photos of girls, when the place is 100 e or + - which means high-class place in relation local living standards. There are agencies that provide what they advertise for. I was surprised to find out that Spain has these two, except of course at higher rate.
Anywhere else?
Andalus Expat
07-30-22, 14:42
This is not the same. Certain agencies have pictures that are very near to the reality, if not actually unmodified apart from hiding the girl's tattoos. When the girls area like in the pictures, and when they are in the pictures extremely good looking, I'm willing to pay the 200 price which I thought I would never bother to pay again.
The sites you mention do not provide such photos and they are not to be trusted in regard of the girls age. If as a client one is looking for a girl in excellent shape around 22 years old and is ready to pay for this, it's unacceptable to have a 27 year old, possibly one that has had a child.
I've read a lot of this forum's Europe-section and it seems like that Russia is the place where one can get near-to-reality photos of girls, when the place is 100 e or + - which means high-class place in relation local living standards. There are agencies that provide what they advertise for. I was surprised to find out that Spain has these two, except of course at higher rate.
Anywhere else?You're certainly someone who's coming to an understanding of how it works. Agencies thrive on their reputations & repeat customers. So they're concious of the effects of the reputational damage of misleading information. Slumi & Eurogirls are just advertising sites selling advertising space. Although both do have regrettably underused review facilities, so there's opportunities for the advertisers to create either good or poor reputations. (Worth mentioning. Eurogirls is primarily targeted at the foreign visitor. The prices shown on it are very often also targeted at foreign visitors. Who are not familiar with the domestic market. It's common to see a girl asking a price on Eurogirls far in excess of what she'll ask on the Spanish advertising sites or accept from a prospective punter) The same applies to individual girls, apartments, villas etc. You make money in this business from regular repeat customers. Not from trying to scam people.
Interesting what you say about Russia. Haven't been there but if it hadn't been for Vlad's ill-advised Ukrainian excursions, Moscow was pencilled in for August. I do have good contacts in the country & we've discussed exactly this. I'm led to believe it may be a cultural thing. The Latin world does generally have an acceptance for bending the truth. Try living & operating in Spain & you'll soon know what I mean. Russians don't have that, at least on a personal relationship level. So the Spanish will discount overselling in an advert. Whereas a girl working in Moscow doing the same might be confronted by an extremely pissed off Russian & the consequences. And you're certainly right about the prices. Pre-conflict Rouble, they were about half what they were here. I'd imagine that margin's considerably widened. If only one could take the advantage!
You're certainly someone who's coming to an understanding of how it works. Agencies thrive on their reputations & repeat customers. So they're concious of the effects of the reputational damage of misleading information. Slumi & Eurogirls are just advertising sites selling advertising space. Although both do have regrettably underused review facilities, so there's opportunities for the advertisers to create either good or poor reputations. (Worth mentioning. Eurogirls is primarily targeted at the foreign visitor. The prices shown on it are very often also targeted at foreign visitors. Who are not familiar with the domestic market. It's common to see a girl asking a price on Eurogirls far in excess of what she'll ask on the Spanish advertising sites or accept from a prospective punter) The same applies to individual girls, apartments, villas etc. You make money in this business from regular repeat customers. Not from trying to scam people.
Interesting what you say about Russia. Haven't been there but if it hadn't been for Vlad's ill-advised Ukrainian excursions, Moscow was pencilled in for August. I do have good contacts in the country & we've discussed exactly this. I'm led to believe it may be a cultural thing. The Latin world does generally have an acceptance for bending the truth. Try living & operating in Spain & you'll soon know what I mean. Russians don't have that, at least on a personal relationship level. So the Spanish will discount overselling in an advert. Whereas a girl working in Moscow doing the same might be confronted by an extremely pissed off Russian & the consequences. And you're certainly right about the prices. Pre-conflict Rouble, they were about half what they were here. I'd imagine that margin's considerably widened. If only one could take the advantage!If you are interested in agency with real photos then check out velazquez24 website. Its clients are mostly locals and its quite cheap (its not high end of the market tho). Andaluzexpat is quite right about eurogirls, always google the number to see if they have ads on local sites or not, many do but real top ones don't because they don't want local customers and want rich guys.
Mongerer88
07-31-22, 15:26
This is not the same. Certain agencies have pictures that are very near to the reality, if not actually unmodified apart from hiding the girl's tattoos. When the girls area like in the pictures, and when they are in the pictures extremely good looking, I'm willing to pay the 200 price which I thought I would never bother to pay again.
The sites you mention do not provide such photos and they are not to be trusted in regard of the girls age. If as a client one is looking for a girl in excellent shape around 22 years old and is ready to pay for this, it's unacceptable to have a 27 year old, possibly one that has had a child.
I've read a lot of this forum's Europe-section and it seems like that Russia is the place where one can get near-to-reality photos of girls, when the place is 100 e or + - which means high-class place in relation local living standards. There are agencies that provide what they advertise for. I was surprised to find out that Spain has these two, except of course at higher rate.
Anywhere else?I can't imagine anyone traveling to Russia right now, or even in the next few years for that matter.
For younger, slimmer ladies, Escort Privada's Porto line-up right now is better in that respect currently than its Lisbon roster.
A lot depends on referrals, and if a group gets a hot 18-21 year old and she tells her friends, sometimes magical things happen.
All the ladies listed below get an average of 7 to 10 out of 10 on the local board, and the reviews confirm BBBJ.
https://escortprivada.com/escorts/porto/
Although she is in her 20's, this lady gets excellent reviews as barely looking 18.
https://escortprivada.com/escort/frederica-valente/
https://www.apartadox.com/Acompanhante-de-Luxo-Frederica-Valente-6326.html
Here are three in their late teens to mid 20's with excellent reviews. Liliana Melo, Luisa Reis, and Raquel Pires.
https://escortprivada.com/escort/liliana-melo/
https://escortprivada.com/escort/luisa-reis/
https://escortprivada.com/escort/raquel-pires/
https://www.apartadox.com/Acompanhante-de-Luxo-Liliana-Melo-4525.html
https://www.apartadox.com/Acompanhante-de-Luxo-Luisa-Reis-5764.html
https://www.apartadox.com/Acompanhante-de-Luxo-Raquel-Pires-4664.html
Similar to those three, but with slightly fewer reviews and not quite as good of reviews as those three is Nicole Aguiar. But worth considering, as she meets your criteria.
https://escortprivada.com/escort/nicole-aguiar/
Alice Albuquerque is closer to 30 than 20, but consistently reviewed as extremely pretty, very slim, and a top performer. She is the favorite of many of the reviewers.
https://escortprivada.com/escort/alice-albuquerque/
https://www.apartadox.com/Acompanhante-de-Luxo-Alice-Albuquerque-6550.html
Gabriela Maia is a special case. Young, thin and often considered their best PSE lady, but some guys haven't been as attracted to her facially.
https://escortprivada.com/escort/gabriela-maia/
https://www.apartadox.com/Acompanhante-de-Luxo-Gabriela-Maia-5701.html
From there, you don't get quite the perfect matches for what you asked about.
Constance Silva gets good reviews, but is closer to 30 than 20 and has a bigger body than Alice, the other lady mentioned above who is closer to 30.
https://escortprivada.com/escort/constanca-silva/
Other ladies getting some good reviews, but not as good of reviews as the ladies listed above are Leonor Matos and Francisca Vilar. But the good reviews they have gotten make them worthy of being put on the list.
https://escortprivada.com/escort/leonor-matos/
https://escortprivada.com/escort/francisca-vilar/
The ladies on the current roster receiving consistently unfavorable reviews are Helena Vasconelos, and Mel Semedo. I can't find reviews in the last few months for the others on the current EP Porto roster.
Andalus Expat
07-31-22, 18:57
If you are interested in agency with real photos then check out velazquez24 website. Its clients are mostly locals and its quite cheap (its not high end of the market tho). Andaluzexpat is quite right about eurogirls, always google the number to see if they have ads on local sites or not, many do but real top ones don't because they don't want local customers and want rich guys.Velazquez24 is a place on believe it or not Avda Velazquez, Malaga, numbered 24. Although it's not on the main drag but on a road runs parallel & is next to Eurobike. (At least you may be able to park) It calls itself a club but it's more like halfway between a club & an apartment / villa. Generally walk in rather than phone first, you usually get an apartment style parada to choose from. They run a day shift & a night shift & offer outcalls. (maybe that accounts for the 18 girls they claim) They seem to draw the girls for the outcalls from a bigger pool than the ones actually working there, so yes also an agency of sorts.
Some of the Eurogirls are using a different number for the site as they use for other adverts. And even different names. But they're often the same photos. So it's always worth having a skim through Pasion or Slumi, see if you can spot her at the locals rates. A tip. Always use the name of your prospect when making an enquiry. You may not actually be conversing with the actual girl but at least you & the person at the other end are on the same page. You may be contacting a number used by several girls. One of the girls I know uses a booking service. Took me a time to work that out. Thankfully, I now have her personal number. That costs her a grand a month, she tells me. But she's a high end prossie. On Eurogirls at 250/ hour + extras+ outcall supplement. (I don't pay anything like that) No doubt cost effective for her.
Velazquez24 is a place on believe it or not Avda Velazquez, Malaga, numbered 24. Although it's not on the main drag but on a road runs parallel & is next to Eurobike. (At least you may be able to park) It calls itself a club but it's more like halfway between a club & an apartment / villa. Generally walk in rather than phone first, you usually get an apartment style parada to choose from. They run a day shift & a night shift & offer outcalls. (maybe that accounts for the 18 girls they claim) They seem to draw the girls for the outcalls from a bigger pool than the ones actually working there, so yes also an agency of sorts.
Some of the Eurogirls are using a different number for the site as they use for other adverts. And even different names. But they're often the same photos. So it's always worth having a skim through Pasion or Slumi, see if you can spot her at the locals rates. A tip. Always use the name of your prospect when making an enquiry. You may not actually be conversing with the actual girl but at least you & the person at the other end are on the same page. You may be contacting a number used by several girls. One of the girls I know uses a booking service. Took me a time to work that out. Thankfully, I now have her personal number. That costs her a grand a month, she tells me. But she's a high end prossie. On Eurogirls at 250/ hour + extras+ outcall supplement. (I don't pay anything like that) No doubt cost effective for her.True. Velazquez24 has good reputation among locals, so its worth a visit. Have you ever visited?
Andalus Expat
08-01-22, 21:12
True. Velazquez24 has good reputation among locals, so its worth a visit. Have you ever visited?No. But it's been recommended by someone I know. They're Spanish. It is very convenient from Malaga commercial centre for those important trips out of the office.
I know where it is because I know someone lives in a building very near it. But it's tricky to find if you don't. If you're coming from Malaga direction on the even numbered side, you won't see it until you're past it. By which time it's hidden by the corner of the building it's in. You have to come off onto a side road, which is also Avda Velazquez, before you can actually see it. Even foot on it's tricky because one doesn't expect the side road to be Velazquez. There doesn't seem to be a street name sign. Even Streetview's not much help. If you look at the current image there's nothing to the left of Eurobike. But you can see it from the Velazquez main drag. The side road itself is a dead end, so you can't come at from the other direction. You'll see what I mean if you go to the Velazquez24 website & look at the map they've so helpfully provided. Drop the little man on the street outside & no Velazquez24. Drop it on Velazquez main drag & look between the building on your right & Tienda de Torcal on the left & it magically appears. Cue Tommy Cooper line.
Andalus Expat
08-01-22, 21:49
I can't imagine anyone traveling to Russia right now, or even in the next few years for that matter.Depends on how long the current unpleasantness lasts. Putin does seem to chewing through Russia's war-fighting capability at a phenomenal rate. Bearing in mind that this was what it supposed to take the entirety of NATO to stop at the Falda Gap, not so long ago. Shades of 1914 but maybe it'll all be over by Christmas. Or Vlad goes nuke & there's no longer any large Russian cities to visit. Best way, the Kremlin will be wanting to mend fences with the West earliest. It's not a popular war in European Russia or the eastern cities. Why he's doing his recruiting in the boonies & in the southern flank oblasts.
But it's not somewhere I'd want to operate without a native guide. Language & cyrillics for a start. Be like anywhere else. Stay on the well trodden tourist tracks you get stitched up.
Andalus Expat
08-07-22, 13:10
Something may be of interest. Click / tap on the contact button under current Pasion* ads & you'll see a message drawing your attention to other advertising the site is now carrying. Real estate, vehicles etc. And the page heads. In the new green format. Has sprouted a 'contact' button for the categories.
So it looks like Pasion is prepositioning ahead of the legislative effects. Could be one of two strategies. They're expecting puta ads to be interdicted & seeking alternative markets to sell advertising services. A puta ad site may lose its revenue sources if banks withdraw their services. But a more general advertising site might not suffer the same. Wouldn't hold out much hope on the latter. Whatever, there'll be people in Paris trying to work out how to continue monetising what has been to date a successful business. Sign of the times.
*Pasion itself appeared around the time Milanuncios stopped carrying puta ads. The format was very similar. Whether there was a connection between one & other? milanuncios.com hides behind a Seattle privacy screen & is hosted by Amazon. mileroticos.com (no relation) seems to be run out of Mallorca.
Something may be of interest. Click / tap on the contact button under current Pasion* ads & you'll see a message drawing your attention to other advertising the site is now carrying. Real estate, vehicles etc. And the page heads. In the new green format. Has sprouted a 'contact' button for the categories.
So it looks like Pasion is prepositioning ahead of the legislative effects. Could be one of two strategies. They're expecting puta ads to be interdicted & seeking alternative markets to sell advertising services. A puta ad site may lose its revenue sources if banks withdraw their services. But a more general advertising site might not suffer the same. Wouldn't hold out much hope on the latter. Whatever, there'll be people in Paris trying to work out how to continue monetising what has been to date a successful business. Sign of the times.
*Pasion itself appeared around the time Milanuncios stopped carrying puta ads. The format was very similar. Whether there was a connection between one & other? milanuncios.com hides behind a Seattle privacy screen & is hosted by Amazon. mileroticos.com (no relation) seems to be run out of Mallorca.GirlsBarcelona (and it's Madrid counterpart) has a section for sugar dating under Zukery. It has the same independent girls, but prices and services are not listed. It still has escort girls and agencies advertising. I don't know if it's to protect themselves against Judiciary in case the potential new law on sex advertising is passed as is, or something else. What's interesting is that GirlsBCN doesn't have a sugar dating section.
Andalus Expat
08-10-22, 13:09
GirlsBarcelona (and it's Madrid counterpart) has a section for sugar dating under Zukery. It has the same independent girls, but prices and services are not listed. It still has escort girls and agencies advertising. I don't know if it's to protect themselves against Judiciary in case the potential new law on sex advertising is passed as is, or something else. What's interesting is that GirlsBCN doesn't have a sugar dating section.I strongly suspect that the problems with advertising will be monetising it. This site had its revenue stream interdicted by the banking system. Visa / Master Card withdrew their money transfer services (& presumably Amex?) This has happened in a lot of areas. Politics. Lifestyle opinions. So it isn't necessarily dependent on legality. The same lobby-group pressure that brought the legislation will likely be turned on the banks. Most of the girls pay for their advertising by cash input into ATM's. (Putas aren't particularly good at managing credit / debit cards & bank accounts. Quelle surprise! Simply withdrawing that facility would be a sizeable financial hit. Doesn't even need to be international. Just spanish banks.
Visa and MasterCard banned Pornhub from using their services for BS reasons. IIRC, Somebody here or other forum who claimed that read the purposed law or had an expert read it claims it will only ban ads that are very expletive.
Lads, when exactly is this insane law being brought in and enforced?
This link indicates that it has been passed tied on to the tail end of a new consent law.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61591615
Mongerer88
08-22-22, 02:46
Lads, when exactly is this insane law being brought in and enforced?
This link indicates that it has been passed tied on to the tail end of a new consent law.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61591615It passed one level of the government.
It has not yet become law.
It is in the part of the process where amendments are being added.
Eventually a final bill will be voted on.
Unless there is a major fight regarding amendments, something close to what you are reading about is indeed expected to pass.
Spain has a complicated system, so the final bill has to address a lot of technicalities.
In much of Spain, prostitution is effectively legal under the hotel statutes as a result of hotels being able to lease space to prostitutes for extremely short periods of time.
The biggest issue is how the law will address that, as well as whether fines on landlords leasing apartments that are used for prostitution will be in the final bill.
We just don't know what the final bill will look like, or to what level it will be enforced.
It passed one level of the government.
It has not yet become law.
It is in the part of the process where amendments are being added.
Eventually a final bill will be voted on.
Unless there is a major fight regarding amendments, something close to what you are reading about is indeed expected to pass.
Spain has a complicated system, so the final bill has to address a lot of technicalities.
In much of Spain, prostitution is effectively legal under the hotel statutes as a result of hotels being able to lease space to prostitutes for extremely short periods of time..The consent law (which is itself controversial) and the so called "abolitionist" law are two different things.
Mongerer88
08-22-22, 19:51
The consent law (which is itself controversial) and the so called "abolitionist" law are two different things.Yes, this piece gives an update on the bill, which is in the debate and amendments phase.
https://publicnewstime.com/travel/whats-the-law-on-prostitution-in-spain/
Hopefully the portions of the article pertaining to the status of the law is more accurate than the examples regarding commercial sex.
Puerto Rico is not a mongering hotspot, nor do a significant number of foreign sex workers in Spain come from the Dominican Republic.
I mention this before, but there seem to be a significant opposition towards the proposed abolitionist law. Even parts of the media posted articles that criticized the proposal.
The bill is going to become a law on Thursday it seems. But from what I've understood and read (reading websites and stuff) its been watered down badly and it does not affect brothels and other things, the only thing it does is that third parties must not gain anything, and that includes ads (websites can't post videos and pics, however this one is also tricky).
That is the only thing that's going to change.
I found this article on another website that talks about Catalonian government's opinion on prostitution:https://www.elnacional.cat/es/politica/parlament-pide-no-criminalizar-ejercen-prostitucion-libre-voluntariamente_784329_102.html.
Andalus Expat
08-26-22, 19:14
Just found this message on the payments page of my www.pasion.com account.
¡ ATENCIÓand!
El theía 25 de agosto de 2022 se ha aprobado la Ley Orgánica de garantía integral de la libertad sexual.
Debido a la inseguridad jurídica que genera esta nueva normativa nos vemos obligados a cerrar la seccióand de contactos. Desconocemos la fecha de cierre exacta pero necesariamente tendrá que ser antes de la entrada en vigor de esta nueva ley.
Ante esta situacióand el primer paso que nos hemos visto obligados a dar es dejar de ofrecer la venta de créditos.
Lamentamos mucho la situacióand why agradecemos el apoyo que siempre hemos recibido de nuestra comunidad de usuarios.
Translation:
ATTENTION!
On August 25,2022, the Organic Law for the comprehensive guarantee of sexual freedom was approved.
Due to the legal uncertainty generated by this new regulation, we are forced to close the contacts section. We do not know the exact closing date but it will necessarily have to be before the entry into force of this new law.
Given this situation, the first step that we have been forced to take is to stop offering the sale of credits.
We are very sorry for the situation and appreciate the support we have always received from our user community.
So having a hard time following the spanish threads on the other forums.
1 - Looks like they voted yes the law 8/25 to ban websites from advertising, but it still has to go through approval in September? (correct, or is it already 100% official?)
2 - This did not include the law to ban prostitution completely, did not include the law to fine clients, did not include the law for jail time. WHEN is this other law going to be voted on?
So having a hard time following the spanish threads on the other forums.
1 - Looks like they voted yes the law 8/25 to ban websites from advertising, but it still has to go through approval in September? (correct, or is it already 100% official?)
2 - This did not include the law to ban prostitution completely, did not include the law to fine clients, did not include the law for jail time. WHEN is this other law going to be voted on?Long story short. Nothing new has happened. The articles regarding prostitution were finally left out and are not going to be voted on (at least for the foreseeable future) , the ban on ads is not straight forward, if its the girl putting the ads then its fine. Third persons can't put someones elses ad up without their consent.
Andalus Expat
08-27-22, 10:49
Long story short. Nothing new has happened. The articles regarding prostitution were finally left out and are not going to be voted on (at least for the foreseeable future) , the ban on ads is not straight forward, if its the girl putting the ads then its fine. Third persons can't put someones elses ad up without their consent.There does seem to be a great deal of uncertainty. I was talking with one of the girls. She got a similar message on her advert payments page as I did. But Pasion has given her 3000 autorenews as a gift. So with her using maybe 100 day, she'll have free advertising for the next month if she continues at that rate. Maybe I didn't get a similar message because there's considerable credit on my account, so I don't actually need to pay in to advertise. It also still seems possible to register a new Pasion advertising account for the Contacts section. (Although that would be on the existing one free ad a day basis?
So my guess is that Pasion is trying to keep the site functional over at least the short term, although they won't be able to monetise it.
Slumi.com seems to have done the opposite. They're not now offering free ads in the Escorts section. To advertise, it's necessary to purchase an advertising package.
There does seem to be a great deal of uncertainty. I was talking with one of the girls. She got a similar message on her advert payments page as I did. But Pasion has given her 3000 autorenews as a gift. So with her using maybe 100 day, she'll have free advertising for the next month if she continues at that rate. Maybe I didn't get a similar message because there's considerable credit on my account, so I don't actually need to pay in to advertise. It also still seems possible to register a new Pasion advertising account for the Contacts section. (Although that would be on the existing one free ad a day basis?
So my guess is that Pasion is trying to keep the site functional over at least the short term, although they won't be able to monetise it.
Slumi.com seems to have done the opposite. They're not now offering free ads in the Escorts section. To advertise, it's necessary to purchase an advertising package.It seems that there won't be any problems with the girls putting ads. Maybe agencies can not do that legally anymore. But then I don't think they are actually going to fine those guys running the agencies. Basically nothings changed.
Whats the point of renewing ads on pasion? It makes no sense to me. The girl has to be renewing it every half an hour. Sounds like a waste of time.
Long story short. Nothing new has happened. The articles regarding prostitution were finally left out and are not going to be voted on (at least for the foreseeable future) , the ban on ads is not straight forward, if its the girl putting the ads then its fine. Third persons can't put someones elses ad up without their consent.Thanks for these clarifications. I'm still not sure what the proposed changes actually accomplish though. As far as the "consent" matter goes, maybe the agencies could deal with that by having signed consent forms from the girls?
Andalus Expat
08-28-22, 08:47
It seems that there won't be any problems with the girls putting ads. Maybe agencies can not do that legally anymore. But then I don't think they are actually going to fine those guys running the agencies. Basically nothings changed.
Whats the point of renewing ads on pasion? It makes no sense to me. The girl has to be renewing it every half an hour. Sounds like a waste of time.Autorenews are about the prominence of the ad. Renewal will put it top of the first page. Until the next autorenew knocks it down the page. Without it, an ad might be 50 pages down on a phone. And indeed, some advertisers autorenew every half hour or even 15 minutes. It's the format of the site. Others work differently. But, like all advertising, you pay for prominence.
Already, this law is looking hard to interpret. So it'll end up as what a court decides. And with the Spanish legal system, which doesn't work on precedent & where the judiciary of one autonomous community can hand down a decision that conflicts with the decision of the judiciary of another autonomous community, 17 different interpretations could come out of this. None of them necessarily binding. Oh what fun for lawyers!
Andalus Expat
08-28-22, 17:28
Thanks for these clarifications. I'm still not sure what the proposed changes actually accomplish though. As far as the "consent" matter goes, maybe the agencies could deal with that by having signed consent forms from the girls?I'd say there's a fundamental misunderstanding there of how this business actually works. All prostitutes are independent workers. That's girls working in their own apartments, working in apartments of girls (plural), villa girls, club girls, agency girls. Any transaction you have with a girl is with the girl herself, not with a third party. Anything else would be illegal under previous legislation. Places like apartments, villas, clubs, agencies etc are services to the girl to aid her working & paid for by the girl. So, for instance, with an agency girl the money the client pays is her money. She pays a percentage of that to the agency for providing her with the client. Who you're physically giving the money to is irrelevant. If you're paying it to the agency, it's still her money. Handling it is part of the service the agency is providing to her.
So the agency is acting as her agent, not she its. She will already sign a consent, agreeing that she will allow the agency a cut of her earnings in return for the service it provides her. She can hardly consent to an agency doing what she's paying them for.
And it does make the matter of "third parties" somewhat moot. Anyone the girl pays to facilitate her working could be regarded as a third party. They're all benefiting from the proceeds of prostitution.
Mongerer88
08-28-22, 23:34
I'd say there's a fundamental misunderstanding there of how this business actually works. All prostitutes are independent workers. That's girls working in their own apartments, working in apartments of girls (plural), villa girls, club girls, agency girls. Any transaction you have with a girl is with the girl herself, not with a third party. Anything else would be illegal under previous legislation. Places like apartments, villas, clubs, agencies etc are services to the girl to aid her working & paid for by the girl. So, for instance, with an agency girl the money the client pays is her money. She pays a percentage of that to the agency for providing her with the client. Who you're physically giving the money to is irrelevant. If you're paying it to the agency, it's still her money. Handling it is part of the service the agency is providing to her.
So the agency is acting as her agent, not she its. She will already sign a consent, agreeing that she will allow the agency a cut of her earnings in return for the service it provides her. She can hardly consent to an agency doing what she's paying them for.
And it does make the matter of "third parties" somewhat moot. Anyone the girl pays to facilitate her working could be regarded as a third party. They're all benefiting from the proceeds of prostitution.Yes, excellent analysis.
For the most part, Nordic Model laws really aren't that troublesome, especially when the law clarifies that an escort can hire services to support her activities, including contracting with an agency for those services.
As I have said before, there are two things to watch.
The less important one is the prohibition of advertising and discussion. If that occurs, those functions have to occur outside of the country in a more friendly jurisdiction. That is a hassle, including payments. Some escorts just won't jump through the hoops.
The more important one is the planned fines on landlords if prostitution is determined to have occurred. The most important aspect of low prices in Spain is the ability of many ladies to share a relatively large incall facility. If that goes away, we are going to see much higher prices and much less friendliness toward foreign tourists. The scene will shift toward expensive outcall and much smaller incalls where a lady only wants to see one or two guys a day, with them being very secretive. This is going to be very difficult for the government to enact if it doesn't simply cause the clubs and legal brothels that operate under the hotel statutes to effectively be closed. A person would think that landlords and tenants would object like crazy, also. The government would be forcing landlords to spy on tenants to minimize the likelihood of penalties. That is like the 1950's.
Time will tell. The Nordic Model had no real effect in Canada, of course that was aided by the police departments in Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver doing prioritization policies stating that adult consensual paid sex transactions would receive the lowest priority. So there can be illegality and partial illegality without real consequences. Even in countries with full illegality, the scene exists, there is just screening, offshore advertising / discussion, and a realistic format where the customer is purchasing time / companionship. For the Nordic Model, there is less screening since the sex worker doesn't have to be concerned that a policeman is trying to book a session.
Time will tell on this. Sure there will be a few Hall Monitor type Johns who will quit doing this if Mommy / Daddy (the government) says not to, but for most people, the devil will be in the details, which includes what the laws actually say, and seeing if the laws are actually enforced. That takes time. A lot of time, in fact. But the landlord penalties is what to watch. That is the potential game changer, not whether Mommy / Daddy says about buying sex.
Andalus Expat
08-29-22, 13:52
Yes, excellent analysis.
For the most part, Nordic Model laws really aren't that troublesome, especially when the law clarifies that an escort can hire services to support her activities, including contracting with an agency for those services.
As I have said before, there are two things to watch.
The less important one is the prohibition of advertising and discussion. If that occurs, those functions have to occur outside of the country in a more friendly jurisdiction. That is a hassle, including payments. Some escorts just won't jump through the hoops..I do think it's worth remembering that this is a political rather than a legal situation. The legislation has come about because of the lobbying of politicians by certain interest groups. These haven't gone away. I suspect the reason there's only part of the proposed legislation currently being enacted is that when it came down to the nuts & bolts of actually writing it, they realized it wasn't as simple as they thought it would be. Second order effects. You try & make one specific thing illegal & in the process of defining it you find you've included a whole lot of things people definitely do not want made illegal.
There's a good example in the British press today.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/28/female-academics-want-men-prosecuted-sending-nude-images-without/ "Men should be prosecuted for sending nude images to women unless consent is given, say female academics and women's groups. " OK. Now define nude? Stark naked but wearing a hat? Posing in a pair of Speedos? If you're saying a sexual image, define sexual? If they're not careful they'll outlaw women sending photos of themselves in a low cut dress or tight shorts. Instagram will be bereft, the Kardashians desolate. For if the law applies to men it must apply to women, since we're all equal ain't we?
So now the legislators are caught between a rock & a hard place. Trying to write something will satisfy the pressure groups without upsetting the general public. Some of the more obvious advertising may go. At least for websites based in Spain. I suspect the big puti clubs will go. They're simply to obvious & in-your-face to ignore. It's going to end up with some complicated, hard to apply legislation which there'll be no particular enthusiasm to enforce. Trouble is, there's no push back to oppose the lobby groups. Nice to see photos in the papers of girls protesting against the legislation, couple of weeks ago. By rights there should have been 100 times as many of their clients there supporting them. Where were they? If it hasn't already, this'll be coming to a country near you before we're all much older. What are you going to do to oppose it apart from posting on here behind an anonymous name? Have a "Save our Prossies" bumper sticker on the back of your car? Stand up & be counted? I bet you will.
*And of course there's always defunding. Happened to this site with MasterCard & Visa. Happened to a pal's website blog. He lost his PayPal facility because apparently his particular brand of libertarian economics upsets some people. Banks responsive to lobbying pressure can arbitrarily withdraw banking facilities. You lose your bank accounts, you don't have a business.
I suspect the big puti clubs will go. They're simply to obvious & in-your-face to ignore.I wonder if all the Chinese massage places will go too, those actually (surprisingly) still exist in the US last time I was there.
Hopefully not as I go to one at least once per week minimum.
*And of course there's always defunding. Happened to this site with MasterCard & Visa. Happened to a pal's website blog. He lost his PayPal facility because apparently his particular brand of libertarian economics upsets some people. Banks responsive to lobbying pressure can arbitrarily withdraw banking facilities. You lose your bank accounts, you don't have a business.Wow, completely forgot about this. When craigslist shut down it was because of the processor, same with sexguide. I think no one in Spain is even thinking of this yet (pasion, slumi, sexomercado, nuevoloquo.).
They all just think they'll post massage pages and be fine. Not the case of what happened here or on craigslist or backpage (backpage was raided by the FBI if I remember correctly, but I think they had a processor problem also).
They both moved to 'massage only' and still got shut down. Haven't looked at a US escort site in years, not sure what methods they are using these days to stay up and make money.
RedMan0505
08-31-22, 21:02
I wonder if all the Chinese massage places will go too, those actually (surprisingly) still exist in the US last time I was there.
Hopefully not as I go to one at least once per week minimum.
Wow, completely forgot about this. When craigslist shut down it was because of the processor, same with sexguide. I think no one in Spain is even thinking of this yet (pasion, slumi, sexomercado, nuevoloquo.).
They all just think they'll post massage pages and be fine. Not the case of what happened here or on craigslist or backpage (backpage was raided by the FBI if I remember correctly, but I think they had a processor problem also).
They both moved to 'massage only' and still got shut down. Haven't looked at a US escort site in years, not sure what methods they are using these days to stay up and make money.First backpage was shut down by the FBI, then Craigslist shutdown because of the new law.
The move comes two days after the Senate approved of bipartisan legislation called the Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act.
The legislation, now awaiting President Donald Trump's signature, would create an exception to Section 230 of the 1996 Communications Decency Act, which would pave the way for victims of sex trafficking to sue websites that facilitate their abuse.
The House version already passed with overwhelming support and received an endorsement from the White House.
Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is a legal protection that gives a broad layer of immunity to online companies from being held liable for user-generated content.
Companies are expected to act in good faith to protect users from "obscene, lewd, lascivious, filthy, excessively violent, harassing, or otherwise objectionable" content. Critics argue it can, and has, be used as a shield that protects companies from being held liable.
Related: Tech advocates want to stop a new Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act. Here's why.
However, tech industry associations and internet rights advocates are concerned about the free speech implications of the legislation. In August 2017,10 tech trade groups -- including the Internet Association and the Interactive Advertising Bureau -- coauthored a letter condemning the Senate bill and said it would have a "chilling effect" on companies.
"Platforms will err on the side of extreme caution in removing content uploaded by their users, while cutting back on proactive prevention measures," the groups warned in the letter.
"Any tool or service can be misused," Craigslist said in a statement on its website. "We can't take such risk without jeopardizing all our other services, so we are regretfully taking craigslist personals offline. Hopefully we can bring them back some day. ".
The personals section, which is still visible on the Craigslist homepage, now redirects users to the announcement about the shutdown.
Skip the game, adult search, erotic monkey, adult look, hunting and the US seeking arrangements or some other social media site is better.
Skip the game, adult search, erotic monkey, adult look, hunting and the US seeking arrangements or some other social media site is better.I wonder how these pages are up if there is a ban on listing them there? Maybe Spain can follow whatever they're doing.
I did a quick signup for erotic monkey, they actually accept VISA and Bitcoin. Their processor for visa is in the Czech Republic. Seems like the website is based there also.
Sexguide is based in netherlands.
I'm guessing the only option then would be someone opening an escort site outside Spain.
I remember the backpage guy getting arrested, so probably to risky for someone inside Spain to operate an escort listings site.
Looks like some entrepreneur already opened up https://www.scompi.com/ .... out of Bulgaria. Nothing the Spanish govt can do to him I'm guessing.
Guess we're not completely doomed, I think prices will go up and quality will go down a bit. Obviously hoping I'm wrong.
And Really hoping the Chinese places don't close if there's an outright ban!
Andalus Expat
09-02-22, 09:25
Looks like some entrepreneur already opened up https://www.scompi.com/ .... out of Bulgaria. Nothing the Spanish govt can do to him I'm guessing.
Guess we're not completely doomed, I think prices will go up and quality will go down a bit. !Thanks very much for the link. The page format looks identical to www.slumi.com so I think we can guess who's behind it. (Although WhoIs? Info comes up as California registration) If you read the ¿Qué es SCOMPI? (What is Scompi) it seems to be claiming it's for putting people together who share common interests. Don't we all? Maybe it'll fly. The advert pricing is in Euros but Bulgaria's not in the Eurozone. Still has its own currency. So where & how do they intend doing the money side? I suppose the only way to answer that would be to pay for an ad & try & work out from your card statement who you'd actually paid.
I'd expect the opposite. Prices will go down, quality up.
Prices really started rising around the time internet advertising really got underway. From 2009-19 they about doubled against very low inflation rates. And overselling became almost the norm. Misleading adverts & false photos. Difficult to sort the wheat from the chaff. Trouble is, there's always been enough mug punters around to pay what they're asking. Absent easy advertising it'll go back to personal recommendation & reputation. There's still a lot of that now & undoubtedly the best way to find decent girls. Chancers don't prosper under those conditions. Problem for visitors will be participating in the information flow. Maybe this site will rise to the occasion.
Member #4769
09-03-22, 12:07
I'm currently staying in Europe and I'm considering booking a trip to Barcelona in October. I've been reading about the new law that passed and I'm honestly very confused. Does anyone know if the brothels like La Suite and Felina will be shutting down? Or are they just removing advertisements online? And was the law actually passed or did they just disregard it? I see that Slumi and the other advertising sites are still up and that the brothels are still open, so I'm very confused with what actually happened. I see there are still protests going on so it seems like something worse must be happening.
Mongerer88
09-03-22, 19:03
I'm currently staying in Europe and I'm considering booking a trip to Barcelona in October. I've been reading about the new law that passed and I'm honestly very confused. Does anyone know if the brothels like La Suite and Felina will be shutting down? Or are they just removing advertisements online? And was the law actually passed or did they just disregard it? I see that Slumi and the other advertising sites are still up and that the brothels are still open, so I'm very confused with what actually happened. I see there are still protests going on so it seems like something worse must be happening.No law passed that would cause the closure of anything.
New laws are being debated that could be problematic, but whether they will pass (particularly in their current form) is unknown.
What passed was an affirmative consent law. Most of it has nothing to do with sex work. Essentially, a genuine rapist cannot claim that the victim consented as a result of not saying no. That is certainly a reasonable law. As part of that law, a provision was passed making it illegal for someone other than the sex worker to take out an ad. So if a genuine pump places an ad, he can be prosecuted. That law does not extend to an agent of the sex worker. So when a brothel of an assistant takes out an ad with the approval or at the direction of the sex worker, that is legal.
Member #4769
09-04-22, 11:52
No law passed that would cause the closure of anything.
New laws are being debated that could be problematic, but whether they will pass (particularly in their current form) is unknown.
What passed was an affirmative consent law. Most of it has nothing to do with sex work. Essentially, a genuine rapist cannot claim that the victim consented as a result of not saying no. That is certainly a reasonable law. As part of that law, a provision was passed making it illegal for someone other than the sex worker to take out an ad. So if a genuine pump places an ad, he can be prosecuted. That law does not extend to an agent of the sex worker. So when a brothel of an assistant takes out an ad with the approval or at the direction of the sex worker, that is legal.Thank you for explaining. Would you say it's safe to book a trip for October or is there a high chance another law will pass before then?
Mongerer88
09-04-22, 18:33
Thank you for explaining. Would you say it's safe to book a trip for October or is there a high chance another law will pass before then?You will be safe. Spanish lawmaking is slow. They like it that way, similar to the curing of their ham.
And there will likely be a phase-in period even if something passes.
And has been said many times, life will go on if the Nordic Model passes. You can just get outcall to your hotel room where the transaction is the purchase of time and companionship. Her services will be the same as they are now.
Iguana Six
09-04-22, 22:07
Travelling to Rota, Spain from the US.
Internet search tells me that they use the European-style, twin stick electrical plugs and 240 volts.
Obviously, my phones and other gear use 110 volts and the twin slats.
I have purchased an adapter that will overcome the twin stick plug. What do I attach to that to prevent my electronics from frying?
Travelling to Rota, Spain from the US.
Internet search tells me that they use the European-style, twin stick electrical plugs and 240 volts.
Obviously, my phones and other gear use 110 volts and the twin slats.
I have purchased an adapter that will overcome the twin stick plug. What do I attach to that to prevent my electronics from frying?Most cell phone and laptop chargers are 110/220 compatible. Look at the specs on the chargers to verify.
Am I the only one who thinks the so called abolishment law, if passed, will be watered down to the point it barely effects the sex scene?
Travelling to Rota, Spain from the US.
Internet search tells me that they use the European-style, twin stick electrical plugs and 240 volts.
Obviously, my phones and other gear use 110 volts and the twin slats.
I have purchased an adapter that will overcome the twin stick plug. What do I attach to that to prevent my electronics from frying?Many if not most chargers today are 50/60 Hz and 100-240 Volts but the only way to know is to check each individual charger's specs.
If your equipment is 110 Volts only you will need a step-down transformer.
If your phones etc can be charged via USB a simpler solution will be to get a local 240 VAC to USB charger.
Andalus Expat
09-04-22, 22:48
Travelling to Rota, Spain from the US.
Internet search tells me that they use the European-style, twin stick electrical plugs and 240 volts.
Obviously, my phones and other gear use 110 volts and the twin slats.
I have purchased an adapter that will overcome the twin stick plug. What do I attach to that to prevent my electronics from frying?Depends on what electronics you're talking about. A lot of stuff is compatible with 110/220 because it contains a transformer to drop the juice to the low voltage DC used by the circuits. Look on the labels. I'm looking at a power supply for a Fujitsu laptop now & that's rated 100 240 V AC. So's a Motorola fone charger.
I had quite a lot of US domestic equipment hanging around the London flat. Courtesy of a NuYawk chick moved in for a while. She ran it off of a 220-240/110 transformer she'd brought with her, so they must be available Stateside. Although I don't suppose even the most intrepid Yank tourists travel with food processors or waffle toasters. I do remember finding transformers will step down to 110 in Europe isn't easy. No call for them. The only things use 110 here is industrial machinery.
So another popular forum posted what they are going to do in 30 days when the law comes into affect. All client experiences will remain and you can continue to post your experiences. The girls will only be able to advertise 'massage' with no mention of kissing, blowjobs, or sex.
This made me wonder that a girl could post an ad for massage, then 10 minutes later a client can post about his experience with her (they fucked).
So, what will the government do next? Ban posting stories and ban posting words? If they end up abolishing prostitution will they go after a client for posting he fucked an escort?
Remember they fined the rapper here $30,000 for insulting the king on twitter (he also glorified violence which they used against him saying it was an extreme case, interpret it as you want)
Sounds like fucking Afghanistan, not Europe tho.
Mongerer88
09-08-22, 18:07
So another popular forum posted what they are going to do in 30 days when the law comes into affect. All client experiences will remain and you can continue to post your experiences. The girls will only be able to advertise 'massage' with no mention of kissing, blowjobs, or sex.
This made me wonder that a girl could post an ad for massage, then 10 minutes later a client can post about his experience with her (they fucked).
So, what will the government do next? Ban posting stories and ban posting words? If they end up abolishing prostitution will they go after a client for posting he fucked an escort?
Remember they fined the rapper here $30,000 for insulting the king on twitter (he also glorified violence which they used against him saying it was an extreme case, interpret it as you want)
Sounds like fucking Afghanistan, not Europe tho.Review forums exist even in countries where all aspects of prostitution are illegal.
A few forums have a disclaimer that all of the reviews constitute fictional writing.
But in general, what a person writes is not admissible as evidence in most courts because it could in fact be fictional.
As an added precaution, many review forums are set up (or relocated) to countries where prostitution is legal and it is difficult for another country's law enforcement to obtain information.
It will be interesting to see if the Spanish review sites start being hosted in another jurisdiction.
I do think it's worth remembering that this is a political rather than a legal situation. The legislation has come about because of the lobbying of politicians by certain interest groups. These haven't gone away. I suspect the reason there's only part of the proposed legislation currently being enacted is that when it came down to the nuts & bolts of actually writing it, they realized it wasn't as simple as they thought it would be. Second order effects. You try & make one specific thing illegal & in the process of defining it you find you've included a whole lot of things people definitely do not want made illegal.
There's a good example in the British press today.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/08/28/female-academics-want-men-prosecuted-sending-nude-images-without/ "Men should be prosecuted for sending nude images to women unless consent is given, say female academics and women's groups. " OK. Now define nude? Stark naked but wearing a hat? Posing in a pair of Speedos? If you're saying a sexual image, define sexual? If they're not careful they'll outlaw women sending photos of themselves in a low cut dress or tight shorts. Instagram will be bereft, the Kardashians desolate. For if the law applies to men it must apply to women, since we're all equal ain't we?
So now the legislators are caught between a rock & a hard place. Trying to write something will satisfy the pressure groups without upsetting the general public. Some of the more obvious advertising may go. At least for websites based in Spain. I suspect the big puti clubs will go. They're simply to obvious & in-your-face to ignore. It's going to end up with some complicated, hard to apply legislation which there'll be no particular enthusiasm to enforce. Trouble is, there's no push back to oppose the lobby groups. Nice to see photos in the papers of girls protesting against the legislation, couple of weeks ago. By rights there should have been 100 times as many of their clients there supporting them. Where were they? If it hasn't already, this'll be coming to a country near you before we're all much older. What are you going to do to oppose it apart from posting on here behind an anonymous name? Have a "Save our Prossies" bumper sticker on the back of your car? Stand up & be counted? I bet you will.
*And of course there's always defunding. Happened to this site with MasterCard & Visa. Happened to a pal's website blog. He lost his PayPal facility because apparently his particular brand of libertarian economics upsets some people. Banks responsive to lobbying pressure can arbitrarily withdraw banking facilities. You lose your bank accounts, you don't have a business.It be nice if the regressive, woke stuff died off or never existed in the first time. It would be unthinkable for a country like Spain to try abolishing prostitution 10-20 years ago. I blame it on politicians and special interest groups adapting SJW BS from mostly USA and trying to impose it on their countries.
https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/justicia-propone-castigar-cuatro-anos-carcel-pague-sexo-victimas-trata_1_9556318.html
Thoughts on this article? Now they are proposing 4 years in jail for clients who have sex with trafficking victims. Also jail sentences for those who rent out locations for trafficking.
I guess that will completely eliminate the Chinese apartments and Escort apartments also (Chinese massage places also?)? And how the hell are we supposed to know who is "forced to prostitute" and who isn't?
They are completely fucking nuts with all this, to go from totally legal one day then next to no ads on the internet, and trying to make it illegal completely with fines and jail sentences.
They should start off slower, not swing so hard one way so fast. Make girls in the street illegal first, see what happens. Then explicit ads, see what happens, etc. Over years. Not all in 3 months. (obviously I'm against anything illegal whatsoever, but if I had to compromise.).
Inflation, economy and war and this is the shit they're trying to pass. Un-fucking-believable.
Andalus Expat
09-22-22, 14:48
https://www.eldiario.es/sociedad/justicia-propone-castigar-cuatro-anos-carcel-pague-sexo-victimas-trata_1_9556318.html
Thoughts on this article? Now they are proposing 4 years in jail for clients who have sex with trafficking victims. Also jail sentences for those who rent out locations for trafficking.
I guess that will completely eliminate the Chinese apartments and Escort apartments also (Chinese massage places also?)? And how the hell are we supposed to know who is "forced to prostitute" and who isn't?
They are completely fucking nuts with all this, to go from totally legal one day then next to no ads on the internet, and trying to make it illegal completely with fines and jail sentences..The "forced into prostitution" thing has always been a nonsense. The London police ran an operation cost millions trying to find compelled girls. Didn't result in a single prosecution.
It's a simple matter of the economics of the industry. Forcing a girl to work costs money. You have to pay the people doing the forcing. So it's impossible to compete with the girls happy to work voluntarily. It could only work if there was a shortage of girls willing to work & an abundance of men wanting to use them. Whereas the current situation's the total opposite. A vast surplus of willing putas & a shortage of clients willing to pay for their services. Although legislators seem determined to reverse this to the former.
"Trafficking's" another nonsense word. Define it? The cab driver taking a girl across town for an appointment's trafficking. So was the airline brought her from S. America. Or the friend who lent her the money to buy the ticket.
I suspect Madrid's current bogged down in trying to write the wording of the laws will enact the legislation it's passed. Not easy. Second order effects. I mentioned a Brit feminist MP's call for legislation over making men sending women "sexual" images without their consent being a criminal offence, in a previous post. Now define sexual image. Is a man in a hat & a pair of shoes naked? How about the same man photographed on the beach in a pair of Speedos? Can you discriminate? How about a woman sending a man her photo in a low cut dress or bikini? At which point in the dress code does she have to ask his permission? You have to define all this legally. So what will come out of the legislation is anyone's guess.
It's also going to be complicated by the Spanish legal system. A lot of the people reading this will be familiar with the concept of case law & precedent. A case may go to court & receive a judgement. That judgement may be appealed to a higher court. Maybe as far as Blair's Supremes. Eventually the process produces an outcome that sets precedent throughout the UK judicial system for judging similar cases. That's the Anglo-Saxon system used in the UK & the States. Spain doesn't have that. Anyone who's been involved in Spanish law knows you can get one judgement in a court in one part of the country. And a contradictory judgement in another court in a different part of the country. Spanish law isn't made in the courts, it's legislated & interpreted. Depends on the judge. So how the legislation affects may depend on where you are.
NotBeingSeen
09-23-22, 15:21
I'm curious, what do people think will happen to all the escorts in Spain once this law is passed? Will they go to other neighboring countries like Switzerland or Germany? I have a hard time seeing all of them stop working in a lucrative business. Anyone talk to girls about this? If I was in Spain I would ask them what they think and if they have any plans. Obviously girls who are studying in university won't be able to just move to another country or even another city so they will lose business.
Mongerer88
09-23-22, 20:31
I'm curious, what do people think will happen to all the escorts in Spain once this law is passed? Will they go to other neighboring countries like Switzerland or Germany? I have a hard time seeing all of them stop working in a lucrative business. Anyone talk to girls about this? If I was in Spain I would ask them what they think and if they have any plans. Obviously girls who are studying in university won't be able to just move to another country or even another city so they will lose business.For true escorts, nothing will happen. Of course it depends on what the new law will say. This won't affect outcall escorting, which would increase. Nor will it affect incall when one lady works there and sees a guy or two a day. You have to keep in mind that escorting exists in plenty of countries where all aspects of prostitution is illegal.
The issue is the legal brothels, the meeting clubs with attached motel rooms, and the large multi-room, multi-lady incall facilities, some of which I call shared private apartments. These places allow efficiency for the market and keep Spain's prices low. If the market becomes exclusively an appointment-oriented system where a lady can realistically only see one, maybe two, guys a day, with her doing all of her own administrative work, advertising, and travel, then prices are going to go up.
I don't think that is going to happen, but time will tell. Of course, the other unknown is the level of law enforcement. You would be surprised by this. After Canada passed the Nordic Model, its police in the three largest cities basically said they wouldn't enforce the law. Specifically, they did a Prioritization Policy listing adult consensual prostitution as the lowest possible priority.
Bottom line is that no one knows what a future law might say. And it will be months or years after that before the level of law enforcement activity is known.
At least one group I follow in Madrid announced that they will stop explicit advertisements. Other than that, I haven't seen a reaction from sex workers, establishments, or agencies. They might have more confidence than the posters in this thread that it will not be that bad.
Super Cum 500
09-24-22, 15:57
I remember few years before covid when I first tried escorts / hookers I could find BBBJ, Prague, Germany, Spain etc often some didn't even charge extra or if did maybe 20-50 euros. Recently I've found really hard to get it. Is this the way it is now or I just been unlucky with the girls I'm picking?
You guys that get this service are you asking many girls before finally getting? Plus extra cost? I was better looking years ago so don't know if that makes any difference not like I'm a monter haha just trying to work out any possible reasons for the lack of BBBJ availability for me at least.
Andalus Expat
09-29-22, 18:59
I remember few years before covid when I first tried escorts / hookers I could find BBBJ, Prague, Germany, Spain etc often some didn't even charge extra or if did maybe 20-50 euros. Recently I've found really hard to get it. Is this the way it is now or I just been unlucky with the girls I'm picking?
You guys that get this service are you asking many girls before finally getting? Plus extra cost? I was better looking years ago so don't know if that makes any difference not like I'm a monter haha just trying to work out any possible reasons for the lack of BBBJ availability for me at least.I'd say it depends on 3 factors.
#1 You already mentioned. Are you the sort of guy a girl would want do a BBBJ on. Only you (& she) will know.
#2 Where you're going. Club girls are noted for not doing them. Or for charging extra. Matter of incentives. You're a one off client she'll likely never see again. She already has your money. Cheap walk-ins have the same incentives.
#3 How much you're paying. If you're paying bottom dollar, you can't expect more than you're paying for.
My experience is that in Spain a BBBJ's a rarity both to not get the service or to have to pay. It's part of the minimum service expected. But I'm seeing mostly mid-market girls or better, rarely less than an hour & the majority as outcalls. To her I'm an excellent client she wants to see again. (And I'll always try to give her the impression she will, even if I won't) So the incentives stack up firmly in my favour.
So incentives, it's always incentives. Incentives matter.
As for asking before. Well I suppose you could try. But what would that prove? For a start #1. Second she's a puta wanting a booking & they're not exactly known for their honesty. The truth is discovered after you've paid. Thirdly you're signalling you're a newby & don't know the form here. Not something you really want to do, even if you aren't. She may reply "Yes, 30€ more" I would usually ask "What services are you offering & how much?" at the commencement of the dialogue. Which is a slightly different question & suggests you're looking for confirmation of what's in the advert & sends a different signal. Wouldn't be the first time half the things listed in the ad disappear.
Andalus Expat
09-30-22, 18:49
Well that's the Pasion advertising site no more. Unless you're interested in buying a used car of your garden dug over. So Spanish putadom is now running around like chickens with their heads cut off, their leading advertising site no more. Slumi still seems to be functional. But for how long?
So. There are still plenty of lovely ladies out there just waiting to be fucked. And no doubt a few amongst you lot would be willing to take on the task.
Problems putting one alongside tother.
There are quite a few of us who live here or visit regularly who do have the skinny. But no way of passing it on, because site rules forbid phone numbers.
So any ideas?
Well that's the Pasion advertising site no more. Unless you're interested in buying a used car of your garden dug over. So Spanish putadom is now running around like chickens with their heads cut off, their leading advertising site no more. Slumi still seems to be functional. But for how long?
So. There are still plenty of lovely ladies out there just waiting to be fucked. And no doubt a few amongst you lot would be willing to take on the task.
Problems putting one alongside tother.
There are quite a few of us who live here or visit regularly who do have the skinny. But no way of passing it on, because site rules forbid phone numbers.
So any ideas?Agree Sir,
I've been out a week, had numerous conversations with regulars (privates) and from the clubs. I met with a regular I've been seeing (E92 based) yesterday. I was discussing it with her and her opinion was: if the club closes she won't be back. She doesn't ever fancy going private.
There is definitely a shift going on.
Well that's the Pasion advertising site no more. Unless you're interested in buying a used car of your garden dug over. So Spanish putadom is now running around like chickens with their heads cut off, their leading advertising site no more. Slumi still seems to be functional. But for how long?
So. There are still plenty of lovely ladies out there just waiting to be fucked. And no doubt a few amongst you lot would be willing to take on the task.
Problems putting one alongside tother.
There are quite a few of us who live here or visit regularly who do have the skinny. But no way of passing it on, because site rules forbid phone numbers.
So any ideas?Came here to post exactly this.
Also esaschicas Barcelona forum of experiences is COMPLETELY wiped out. Had to be 15 years of experiences written there. They left one or two sections out of hundreds.
This is un fucking believable.
What fucking country do we live in.
Mongerer88
10-01-22, 15:12
Came here to post exactly this.
Also esaschicas Barcelona forum of experiences is COMPLETELY wiped out. Had to be 15 years of experiences written there. They left one or two sections out of hundreds.
This is un fucking believable.
What fucking country do we live in.Folks, make yourself an old-fashioned Little Black Book, or at least a WhatsApp Directory. Especially since ISG doesn't allow phone numbers in the forum.
We learned this in the USA, although the government relented a bit on some of the interpretations of Fosta / Sesta.
And the lesson got reinforced during Covid, even among the Germans who never dreamed their beloved FKKs would get closed by their beloved government.
Ads and threads can get wiped out, but thank god the girl and her smartphone / email will survive. But you need that phone number and that email.
For her obviously, but also for her friends she will refer you to for variety, and if she leaves the business for whatever young ladies she transfers her book of business to.
Hopefully it won't get that bad. Hopefully the websites will relocate to friendly countries, and hopefully Spalumi will think that Esaschicas is just overreacting and not do the same. But nonetheless make your little black book. You don't have sex with these ladies in public. Laws can't be enforced behind closed doors, but you have to have a mechanism to get behind that closed door. During Covid, the guys least affected in all countries were those who had the phone numbers and emails of escorts.
Anyway, here is my favorite in Madrid. She is The Bomb. She hasn't been running ads and said she has been mostly seeing regulars. Her Esaschicas thread is still up. Trust me, write her name and number in your little black book. Don't WhatsApp her unless you are inquiring now about an appointment. Girls hate it when you bug the shit out of them for no good reason. But someday that number might come in handy. Do the same for every lady who has sterling reviews and that you always wanted to see. Don't assume that every phone number you want will always be easily available in the future. And show loyalty to your favorites. If the system gravitates heavily towards illegality, which I still don't think will be the case, you are safest seeing a nice rotation of those favorites, and friends they recommend, and ladies your fellow Johns recommend backchannel and on websites in friendly countries.
https://esaschicas.com/temas/anastasia-643779916-tu-nueva-y-dulce-tentaci%C3%B3n.15352/
Here is the explanation of The Purge:
EsasChicas Statement.
EsasChicas is a transversal, alternative, liberal, guarantee-oriented forum and, above all, very respectful of laws and regulations. In adaptation to the new Organic Law of Comprehensive Guarantee of Sexual Freedom, we are going to adapt to the spirit of the law by carrying out a rigorous and strict interpretation of this Organic Law, a norm that regulates the duties of prevention and awareness in the workplace and equates the victims of sexual violence to victims of gender violence or terrorism. Our forum is against the mafias and trafficking, it supports all those women who work in a dignified way to support their families. Therefore we want to make it clear that:
1) We understand that the threads of experiences with prostitutes not only constitute advertising and promotion of prostitution but even in some cases gender violence, therefore they will be removed from our forum. Although these threads have been created by forum users, we understand that it is our responsibility and therefore we will proceed to eliminate them. The fact that an experience is positive or negative does not exempt from the crime because negative publicity exists, there will be no exceptions to the rule.
2) As of October 7, it will not be allowed in the contact threads to promote prostitution, full nudity, etc.
Well that's the Pasion advertising site no more. Unless you're interested in buying a used car of your garden dug over. So Spanish putadom is now running around like chickens with their heads cut off, their leading advertising site no more. Slumi still seems to be functional. But for how long?
So. There are still plenty of lovely ladies out there just waiting to be fucked. And no doubt a few amongst you lot would be willing to take on the task.
Problems putting one alongside tother.
There are quite a few of us who live here or visit regularly who do have the skinny. But no way of passing it on, because site rules forbid phone numbers.
So any ideas?There are plenty of websites available for advertising like GirlsBCN.
I noticed that some websites don't show prices anymore, while others do. I also noticed that advertising websites (and some agencies) stop advertising explicit services of each girl. It seems there is confusion regarding the organic law on sexual freedom. I think this is what happens when you let politicians influenced by SJW, woke ideology to write laws. I wouldn't be surprised if the Spanish Supreme Court or the next government throws this law out in the future.
I think that's what's going on. Awaiting the outcome of decisions yet to be taken? I think it will all stabilise eventually, but whether the current state will ever be the same. I think unlikely.
I met up with a private chick a few days ago. She told me she normally makes €100 K P / A, This year she's on track to make 150 K.
I don't doubt her at all, she's very popular. And it's all tax free! How she goes about residency I have no idea. I don't ask too many questions.
She's been operating for 10 years on the CDS. So have I. And spent a ridiculous amount of cash. Market forces will always prevail.
What will happen to the club scene is anyones guess? I'the be sad to see them disappear altogether, as I enjoy the clubs scene a lot. But I've worked hard on a little black book for a number of years. Just in case!
There are plenty of websites available for advertising like GirlsBCN.Pasion was the best, I think 90% of traffic went there I remember reading.
But I guess we have to live with worse ones, better than nothing.
I hope some entrepreneur just makes a classifieds site in another country. Or maybe an existing classifieds site in another country could just open a "Spain" section (not a bad idea?
Esaschicas forum just explained that all future experiences with girls will be removed (they already deleted thousands of reports over the last 15 years). Saying that an experience could / will be considered advertising under the new law.
How fucking crazy is this!
So I guess we will need some entrepreneur to create a forum in another country also (or add a 'spain' section for one that already exists. Maybe portugal?) .
Andalus Expat
10-02-22, 23:36
I think that's what's going on. Awaiting the outcome of decisions yet to be taken? I think it will all stabilise eventually, but whether the current state will ever be the same. I think unlikely.I was punting in Spain years before internet advertising. Years before internet. Successfully punting. There were classified ads in some of the papers but I rarely used. It was just a matter of knowing the country & good places to go. Certain areas, certain bars, certain clubs, certain houses & flats. And of course the roundabout girls! Streetgirls have become horror stories in the internet years. But that's only because they're the ones can't find anywhere to work or advertise from.
I'm surprised by the defeatism by some of the people on this board. Think creatively. Do you really think hundreds of thousands of Spanish blokes are going to abandon their hobby? All the girls are going to skulk off, never to fuck for money again? These are the people you've been punting off the backs of. All this wasn't laid on for your benefit. Of course they aren't. They'll be some adjusting. Some creative thinking. The players will rise to play again.
Personally, I think I preferred it pre-internet days. OK, it wasn't laid out on a plate for you. But then you didn't get girls sticking up ads full of lies & false photos & sitting back waiting for the victims to arrive. And I'm totally indifferent about the large clubs. They're just indoor streetgirls & managements making a packet off their backs. Whereas the bars were favoured by hookers charged normal bar prices & she took you back to her place round the corner. Where she wasn't paying a trick's worth of money for a night's room rent. Up to you really. If you can only cope with it being like going to McDonalds you're in for a very dry time. If you're willing to move out of your comfort zone, you should do all right. We will.
And mine too! Been all around the world same song! Been all around the world same song! To all my bros all around the world out there just a humping them hoes! We been all around the world same song! Here a hump! There a hump! Everywhere a humpty hump! Been all around the world same song! Hahahahahahaha!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmFDyZ3ytg8
This new law is already fucking things up for me.
I average about 1 or 2 girls a week.
Before, I could go on 2 or 3 sites and in 10 or 15 minutes I can find a few, send some messages and have an appointment.
Now, there are no filters, you can't search for things you want, and the girls can't put shit in the announcement for what they do.
Before what was 10,15 minutes is now an hour or even more because you need to message everyone and ask the same fucking questions.
And even worse, now I have to go on 10 fucking websites and the girls on the sites are not even great (lower quantity, lower quality).
Without the 'free' sites to upload announcements, there is an obvious drop in number of girls posting because they don't want to pay nuevoloquo $4 per day to post a fucking ad.
No free site, and bullshit ads ("I like listening to music, contact me") are fucking everything up.
So, had an idea today about an easy (hopefully) way to get around the new law?
Just make a website for the girls or anyone to post and do not allow them to post any prices or that it's an exchange sex for money.
So a girl will go on there and post she will fuck you for free, post all the naked images she wants, and include all the filters / keywords in the description (BBBJ, Kissing, Fucking, Anal, etc).
But. She posts that it's all free, she just loves to fuck.
Then we only have to go on whatsapp and ask "how much is one hour?
Instead of now asking 100 fucking questions every time.
Thoughts?
Free sex website. Hopefully some entrepreneur reads this LOL.
Andalus Expat
10-27-22, 15:52
So, had an idea today about an easy (hopefully) way to get around the new law?
Just make a website for the girls or anyone to post and do not allow them to post any prices or that it's an exchange sex for money.
So a girl will go on there and post she will fuck you for free, post all the naked images she wants, and include all the filters / keywords in the description (BBBJ, Kissing, Fucking, Anal, etc).
But. She posts that it's all free, she just loves to fuck.
Then we only have to go on whatsapp and ask "how much is one hour?
Instead of now asking 100 fucking questions every time.
Thoughts?
Free sex website. Hopefully some entrepreneur reads this LOL.I think you'll find the legal position on that one is that it'll be an attempt to evade the law. It's why concealing a kilo of charlie in the lining of your suitcase does not make it legal to import coke into the UK.
It does, however, raise an interesting question about swingers sites where, of course, they're doing exactly what you propose. However that may not be regarded as general advertising. Pretty well all swinger sites operate behind paid for memberships. So it's not advertising to the public. In practice, of course, pretty well all of the major swinger sites are operated outside of Spain. So the law wouldn't affect them anyway. I just did a WhoIs? Request on www.parejaswinger.com & that site's registered in Arizona, US.
"Free sex website" Why? Are you proposing to pay for it, personally? I've actually been running one, the past few years. For the benefit of some our local girls I know. Last invoice I got for name registration & server / bandwidth provision was a bit over 100 euros. And that's for a relatively modest data storage & traffic. I'm my own webmonkey, but putting together even a basic website would cost a couple of thousand & maintenance 50-100 an hour. What you're proposing would probably require 10-20 grand to set up & 3 full time staff to cover the whole of Spain. How's it get paid for? It's doubtful the girls could pay. The banking system will likely block any transfer of remittances from Spain to something set up to evade Spanish law.
I think you'll find the legal position on that one is that it'll be an attempt to evade the law. It's why concealing a kilo of charlie in the lining of your suitcase does not make it legal to import coke into the UK.
It does, however, raise an interesting question about swingers sites where, of course, they're doing exactly what you propose. However that may not be regarded as general advertising. Pretty well all swinger sites operate behind paid for memberships. So it's not advertising to the public. In practice, of course, pretty well all of the major swinger sites are operated outside of Spain. So the law wouldn't affect them anyway. I just did a WhoIs? Request on www.parejaswinger.com & that site's registered in Arizona, US.
"Free sex website" Why? Are you proposing to pay for it, personally? I've actually been running one, the past few years. For the benefit of some our local girls I know. Last invoice I got for name registration & server / bandwidth provision was a bit over 100 euros. And that's for a relatively modest data storage & traffic. I'm my own webmonkey, but putting together even a basic website would cost a couple of thousand & maintenance 50-100 an hour. What you're proposing would probably require 10-20 grand to set up & 3 full time staff to cover the whole of Spain. How's it get paid for? It's doubtful the girls could pay. The banking system will likely block any transfer of remittances from Spain to something set up to evade Spanish law.
Well I meant free as in the girls post they will fuck for you for free. They list all their services and then all we have to do is just go on whatsapp and ask "how much for one hour" instead of going on whatsapp and asking "anal? Blow job no condom? Kissing?" which gets annoying fast.
The website could make money and be exactly like pasion, paid ads to go to the top or slumi, paid ads to be highlighted (both sites make a killing $$.
The girls just write they are swingers or whatever as long as they don't write they are escorts or charge by the hour, etc.
Nude pics, explicit descriptions etc. Just make it a swingers site with paid ads.
Maybe a way to get around this idiotic law.
Andalus Expat
10-28-22, 13:24
Well I meant free as in the girls post they will fuck for you for free. They list all their services and then all we have to do is just go on whatsapp and ask "how much for one hour" instead of going on whatsapp and asking "anal? Blow job no condom? Kissing?" which gets annoying fast.
The website could make money and be exactly like pasion, paid ads to go to the top or slumi, paid ads to be highlighted (both sites make a killing $$.
The girls just write they are swingers or whatever as long as they don't write they are escorts or charge by the hour, etc.
Nude pics, explicit descriptions etc. Just make it a swingers site with paid ads.
Maybe a way to get around this idiotic law.Did you actually look at any adverts before the law took effect? Only a relatively small minority of ads ever mentioned money or a price for the services offered. Two reasons the girls chose not to. They didn't like being pinned down to a price. They were always hopeful of exploiting punters. For example, obviously foreign clients would be asked more than the Spanish because they're believed not to be familiar with general rates. Putting the charges in the advert also told the other girls what they were asking, giving them an opportunity to be undercut.
Personally, I always thought it was a mistake. A girl would get less clients contacting them if the price wasn't advertised. In the same way as you're less likely to enter a shop doesn't display the price of the goods. So the girl advertising price would get first crack at potential clients & increased turnover. Simple marketing psychology. But if putas studied marketing they wouldn't be working as putas, would they?
So no, your idea doesn't get around the new law. The law bans advertising the offering of sexual services to the public.
Swingers sites may get around the law because what happens behind a membership barrier may be regarded as not "public". It'd be a free speech matter. But defining a "membership barrier" might have to be tested in law. Simple registration via e-mail address giving access to all content free would probably not be regarded as any sort of barrier. And once you get onto subscription membership you raise a problem. Most swingers sites are pretty phony now. Most of the membership is hopeful blokes looking for free sex. Heaven knows what the ratio is between them & genuine couples & females wanting to contact men is. The swinging scene just doesn't work like that. Couples & solo females don't have the least problem finding male participants. Generally it's invitation only. The sort of blokes get invited don't need to pay for sex, by definition. So the majority of the gullible membership is just wasting its money.
See the problem? A load of "swinger" sites spring up offering to put you in touch with willing girls. But you don't know what's there because it's behind a paywall. You pay your subscription to find a stack of false profiles of girls don't exist. The difficulty is trying to leverage up such a site from nothing into something both punters & the girls advertising would have confidence in to pay for.
As far as existing swinger sites are concerned the subject's moot anyway. All the ones I've looked are behind paywalls & operating outside Spanish jurisdiction. If you want to contribute something to the discussion rather than just flapping your gums, do a search for Spanish swinger sites then use the Who Is? Domain search to find where they operate from. Should keep you occupied for a few hours & may produce some interesting information. Let us know.
Mongerer88
10-28-22, 20:23
I also think you are overthinking.
Escorting, which is time and companionship, ads exist in every country where prostitution is fully illegal, or half illegal. It is legal everywhere for someone to sell their time. If it wasn't, then lawyers and most other professionals would be breaking the law. So those ads include prices.
At the extreme, ladies taking out escorting ads do not mention sexual services. In some ads, they list the types of sexual activities they enjoy, without directly linking them to what a customer is purchasing. Some of the time, the ad just says read my reviews. Of course, some of the time, sex is never even mentioned in the ad, just provocative pictures, and the customer must go searching to find any reviews.
The ads if the proposed law passes, will become less explicit. Not that big of a deal. But:
The lowest end advertising venues may disappear because at the low end of the scene it is difficult to prove who took out the ad. We are already seeing that under the law that did pass. So the lowest end of the scene will disappear, and prices will increase.
Review boards will be an increasingly important source of information, but if Spalumi, Esaschicas, and Sexomercadobcn stay hosted in Spain, they will likely reduce available review and advertisement details. We are already seeing that. Hopefully they will move their servers. If not, detailed reviews on ISG and other message / review boards in friendlier jurisdictions will become even more important.
And as I have said many times, the part of the proposed new law to watch the most closely is property owner / landlord liability. If Spain becomes the first western country to impose civil / criminal sanctions on landlords if the tenant (s) has sex in exchange for money, that could be very problematic. You would think it would fail. Hell, that is so dictatorial that Franco would blush. But who knows with these fucking Socialists.
Everything else is just noise. Other than the landlord provision, if the new laws pass, it will just cause price increases and increase administrative time for both parties. If her ad doesn't specify whether she does BBBJ, you can still ask her via WhatsApp or email. That is how it is in most parts of Australia, where explicit advertising is banned even though prostitution is fully legal in most areas.
Most governments won't pat you on the head and say Good Boy after you exchange money for sex. You can't expect full legality everywhere and forever. People have to adapt to changes.
Well I meant free as in the girls post they will fuck for you for free. They list all their services and then all we have to do is just go on whatsapp and ask "how much for one hour" instead of going on whatsapp and asking "anal? Blow job no condom? Kissing?" which gets annoying fast.
The website could make money and be exactly like pasion, paid ads to go to the top or slumi, paid ads to be highlighted (both sites make a killing $$.
The girls just write they are swingers or whatever as long as they don't write they are escorts or charge by the hour, etc.
Nude pics, explicit descriptions etc. Just make it a swingers site with paid ads.
Maybe a way to get around this idiotic law.
The ads are less explicit than before. I don't see how they could be "cleaner" if that purposed law passes. And does it matter which countries Spanish escort sites and forums are hosted? Sure there is a threat of website being taken down law enforcement, but what the chances of that happening? Or the risk of being arrest based on online reviews? Even if it's hosted in another country the Spanish gov could just block internet access as one user in BCN claim they could do. BTW, I read the government delayed the purposed law earlier this month so sex workers can speak out. I said this before, but I think the purposed law, if passed, would be watered down.
Mongerer88
10-29-22, 21:25
The ads are less explicit than before. I don't see how they could be "cleaner" if that purposed law passes. And does it matter which countries Spanish escort sites and forums are hosted? Sure there is a threat of website being taken down law enforcement, but what the chances of that happening? Or the risk of being arrest based on online reviews? Even if it's hosted in another country the Spanish gov could just block internet access as one user in BCN claim they could do. BTW, I read the government delayed the purposed law earlier this month so sex workers can speak out. I said this before, but I think the purposed law, if passed, would be watered down.In the USA, most of the foreign host countries for independent escort ads and review / discussion boards supposedly make it more difficult for law enforcement to obtain evidence.
It isn't universal. There are still escort websites hosted in the USA Offering time and companionship with relatively explicit language. Usually the lady simply lists activities she enjoys in private life, such as BBBJ.
Blocking a site throughout a nation is something you see in the Muslim World where the government controls all of the filtering. I am not sure that is the case in Spain.
Andalus Expat
11-16-22, 00:32
In the USA, most of the foreign host countries for independent escort ads and review / discussion boards supposedly make it more difficult for law enforcement to obtain evidence.
It isn't universal. There are still escort websites hosted in the USA Offering time and companionship with relatively explicit language. Usually the lady simply lists activities she enjoys in private life, such as BBBJ.
Blocking a site throughout a nation is something you see in the Muslim World where the government controls all of the filtering. I am not sure that is the case in Spain.I think we have to consider why this legislation's come about. It hasn't come out of nowhere. It's the result of pressure from a particular stripe of militant feminists who think men are the cause of all the problems in the world & no woman could possibly want to fuck them for money. Even if they think they do.
Well they've got an advertising ban, which is the immediately visible face of the industry, will they stop at that? Going on past performance, unlikely. They're not the sort of people are willing to compromise. Get yourselves ready for round two. It won't be over until the fat lady sings.
Mongerer88
11-16-22, 03:19
I think we have to consider why this legislation's come about. It hasn't come out of nowhere. It's the result of pressure from a particular stripe of militant feminists who think men are the cause of all the problems in the world & no woman could possibly want to fuck them for money. Even if they think they do.
Well they've got an advertising ban, which is the immediately visible face of the industry, will they stop at that? Going on past performance, unlikely. They're not the sort of people are willing to compromise. Get yourselves ready for round two. It won't be over until the fat lady sings.The latest update I could find.
https://inspain.news/spain-invests-e217-million-to-abolish-prostitution/
Get yourselves ready for round two. It won't be over until the fat lady sings.Because then we will have to fuck her versus our favorite tutes. I'd rather yank off!
I think we have to consider why this legislation's come about. It hasn't come out of nowhere. It's the result of pressure from a particular stripe of militant feminists who think men are the cause of all the problems in the world & no woman could possibly want to fuck them for money. Even if they think they do.
Well they've got an advertising ban, which is the immediately visible face of the industry, will they stop at that? Going on past performance, unlikely. They're not the sort of people are willing to compromise. Get yourselves ready for round two. It won't be over until the fat lady sings.Somebody is giving radical feminists lot of money to influence national politics.
Mongerer88
11-16-22, 15:35
Somebody is giving radical feminists lot of money to influence national politics.We have too many educated idiots in the world.
Hell, if they want to understand prostitution in Spain, buy the time of sex workers and talk to them, and read sexomercadobcn, spalumi, esaschicas, and ISG.
But no, it is the same reason that it now costs more in terms of time and money to do the study to build a bridge than to actually build it.
The money will go to people, primarily women, who studied psychology, and Women's Studies in school. They will be paid with these government funds and write a report.
I would add that it's not just radical feminists who oppose prostitution. Religious groups, SJWs, and anti-trafficking organizations want to abolish prostitution. And of course there are politicians who share that view like that Carmen lady. I don't know if it's true or not, but I read on local Barcelona forum that a high ranking member of PSC, which is regional Catalonia branch of the PSOE, is the one who came up with the idea of abolishing prostitution as part of their agenda.
Andalus Expat
11-16-22, 17:01
We have too many educated idiots in the world.
Hell, if they want to understand prostitution in Spain, buy the time of sex workers and talk to them, and read sexomercadobcn, spalumi, esaschicas, and ISG.
But no, it is the same reason that it now costs more in terms of time and money to do the study to build a bridge than to actually build it.
The money will go to people, primarily women, who studied psychology, and Women's Studies in school. They will be paid with these government funds and write a report.Most of the people who have opinions on sex work know nothing about it (I'd include a lot of the people who write on these boards in that. Being a customer does not make you an expert) And nobody is going to try to understand something when their job depends on them not understanding it.
A number of policymakers and lobbyists seem to be too driven by ideology and / or morality these days in Western countries, especially in regards to sex work. I'm generalizing of course, but there seem to be pattern in past 10-20 years.
The latest update I could find.
https://inspain.news/spain-invests-e217-million-to-abolish-prostitution/217 m over 4 years (50 m a year) to help the women economically if they abolish prostitution. Prostitution brings in 26 billion a year. So they have about 0. 2% to help pay their bills.
If they kept it legal and taxed it, the government would be bringing in billions a year.
Fucking morons.
"Over 90% of sex workers are victims of trafficking ".
And this from the article also, I find incredibly hard to believe. Are there any other stats on this. Apparently the femnazi's are using this statistic on why we need the law. Sounds way, way off.
Andalus Expat
11-22-22, 00:17
217 m over 4 years (50 m a year) to help the women economically if they abolish prostitution. Prostitution brings in 26 billion a year. So they have about 0. 2% to help pay their bills.
If they kept it legal and taxed it, the government would be bringing in billions a year.
Fucking morons.
"Over 90% of sex workers are victims of trafficking ".
And this from the article also, I find incredibly hard to believe. Are there any other stats on this. Apparently the femnazi's are using this statistic on why we need the law. Sounds way, way off.It depends on your definition of trafficking. A taxi driver taking a girl across town to a client would be trafficking. It's trafficking if a girl currently working in Germany accepts an offer of a place in Spain. Presumably the 10% of girls aren't trafficked work at home & never go to the shops.
As for what the public might understand by trafficking. A girl brought to the country & made to work under duress. It's rarely an economic enterprise. There's the costs of providing her somewhere to work & ensuring that she does. And an unwilling girl is not going to provide a good service to the clients & make good money. And that has to compete with willing girls who want to work, provide good client services & look after there own needs. It's not going to work, is it? The whole rationale behind the theory of trafficking is that there's a shortage of girls to meet the demand for services. When in reality there's a vast surplus of girls would like to sell sexual services but an equally vast shortage of clients want to pay for them.
The London Metropolitan Police mounted a long & expensive operation looking for trafficked women. It didn't produce a single prosecution.
Mongerer88
01-23-23, 04:14
The fact that the Socialist Asshole is becoming increasingly unpopular, and the fact that abolition law went nowhere in parliament at the end of 2022, increases the chance that the limited anti-trafficking law passed in 2022 will be the end of the matter.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/thousands-protest-madrid-against-spanish-171313785.html
Amigas de Silvia (https://www.amigasdesilvia.com/tarifas-acompanantes/) lists duplex and lesbico real as different services. What is the difference? Arent they both threesomes?
Member #4769
02-18-23, 09:51
An update on the new law: https://www.europapress.es/epsocial/igualdad/noticia-psoe-pp-vox-unen-evitar-creacion-congreso-subcomision-aborde-prostitucion-espana-20230208203925.html?s=35.
Andalus Expat
02-18-23, 18:52
Amigas de Silvia (https://www.amigasdesilvia.com/tarifas-acompanantes/) lists duplex and lesbico real as different services. What is the difference? Arent they both threesomes?No. Very different. Duplex is the women being interactive with the client. Lesbico, interactive with each other & the client. The first, any two girls might offer. Now ask yourself how you feel about being sexually interactive with another bloke & there's your answer. Women feel the same.
In practice, of course, they'll be quite capable of offering the second whilst only doing the first. Not hard to fake. Unless the client has some actual experience of the real thing. Most guys haven't.
Andalus Expat
02-28-23, 16:12
Thought this made interesting reading.
https://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/decriminalizing-prostitution-linked-to-fewer-stds-and-rapes
Can't imagine Spanish politicians would, though. Why try to understand something when your job depends on your not understanding?
I hope to visit La Jonquera and Barcelona in early May.
How is this law progressing and is it likely to be passed.
If it is passed when is the earliest it can come into force.
Thanks in advance.
I hope to visit La Jonquera and Barcelona in early May.
How is this law progressing and is it likely to be passed.
If it is passed when is the earliest it can come into force.
Thanks in advance.They haven't passed any law that makes prostitution partially illegal. It was supposed to be passed by end of 2022(and they had enough votes to do it), but it never happened. I don't know what happened since I haven't followed it in a while, but either it's delayed or it's been put aside for a number of reasons. Someone mentioned months ago that the purposed law only criminalizes sex purchase and hosting if the girls are trafficked and forced against their will after some amendments, but I don't know if it's true or not. I wouldn't worry at the moment, especially in Barcelona, which is more supportive of prostitution.
TeddyBearNor
03-16-23, 12:20
I hope to visit La Jonquera and Barcelona in early May.
How is this law progressing and is it likely to be passed.
If it is passed when is the earliest it can come into force.
Thanks in advance.I would love to know as well, I am seriously thinking about a long road trip specifically for visiting La Jonquera and a little further south now in late March / April.
Though I am very curious if there is some eye candy along the road still or not; P.
Tried checking Google maps on the usual spots but it hasn't been updated since 2021 during covid so looked pretty empty then.
Anyone have any first hand knowledge? Anyone driven NII from La Jonquera and south lately?
Napkin7943
03-20-23, 19:01
Hi there,
Was wondering if there's a dedicated Spanish forum for this?
Similar to https://www.girlsreview.nl/ for Netherlands?
Will be taking an 8 day (excluding flight days) tourism / mongering trip to Spain in late August. Have made my flight reservation: flying into Madrid and flying out from Barcelona. I'm thinking 4 days in Madrid and 4 in Barcelona. It sounds like Barcelona is better for mongering but I like museums and Madrid has better ones. How would you split up your days were you in my shoes?
Folks,
Have you updates with links on any new Spanish Law which may have been brought in regarding our hobby / job.
Thanks in advance.
Mongerer88
04-29-23, 16:58
Folks,
Have you updates with links on any new Spanish Law which may have been brought in regarding our hobby / job.
Thanks in advance.Proposed laws are still being debated in Parliament but none appear close to passing, so perhaps the issue will be going away.
There was a big commissioned study according to the Stop Abolition tweets.
Good and bad.
The good is that it found that almost all of the women working in the sex industry in Madrid clubs and apartments are late 20's to early 40's.
The propaganda isn't as bad in Europe as it is is the USA, but Stop Abolition still wryly noted the concept.
There are no minors involved. A USA Religious group got involved in a project involving underaged prostitutes. The project only involved underaged prostitutes who had come into contact with the police. They took the ages of the minors, added them up, and divided by the number of minors to arrive at the average age of the ladies, then said that is the age that women tend to enter sex work. You will hear that nonsense repeated a million times in North America. In the real world of commercial sex, minors don't exist in Europe or North America.
The Spain project was still biased. It noted that trafficking might exist because some apartment working women pay as much as 50 percent of her earnings for "rent" (although it admitted that most don't pay anywhere close to that percentage). And it noted that trafficking might exist because a tremendous number of South American ladies working in Madrid send money back home.
Okay you dumb shits (authors of the study), you scared off the lowest price advertising venues and added risk to landlords if the anti-landlord portions of the legislation were to suddenly pass. Don't you think that is going to drive up the costs of advertising and rent? What does that have to do with trafficking? The easier and cheaper it is for an independent to work, the less trafficking you will have. And yes, women who come from South America to Europe to do sex work abroad often do so to support loved ones back home, rather than to just buy higher-priced handbags.
The study had all the characteristics of being performed by rich kids who majored in Sociology and / or Political Science and whose parents paid for whatever tuition wasn't taken care of by the government, with no actual ability to think or put themselves in the place of those they were studying.
Andalus Expat
04-30-23, 17:48
The Spain project was still biased. It noted that trafficking might exist because some apartment working women pay as much as 50 percent of her earnings for "rent" Full marks to the project for that. It's entirely true. Probably the majority of women working in the apartments & villas are splitting the client fees 50%* with the house. Which generally suits them. The house is paying for the premises, services & the advertising. All which would otherwise have to be covered by the girls. And the house is taking the risk. If the earnings from the clients doesn't cover expenditure, it's the house loses, not the girl. Most women don't have the capital to set up on their own.
*Although when I ran my own villa on the Costa del Sol it was 60 to the girl 40 to the house. Some establishments do similar. It comes from an understanding of the basic economics of the business. You're trying to maximize profit on total turnover. The percentage paid to the girl is a cost, like any other. So you tailor that cost to attract the sort of girl will result in the desired number of clients for the house. The price the client pays is what produces the optimum number of clients for the house & results in the greatest profit. There's no direct link between the two. Most people in the industry here don't understand that piece of basic business economics** & seek to maximize profit on each individual transaction. The 60/40 split does closer resemble optimal if the majority of the competition is on 50/50. Your pricing is more competitive & you can attract the better girls. And you make larger profits.
** Generally, you can reckon anyone who gets into this business has failed at everything else they've tried. Which is possibly part of why this industry gets a rep for exploitation. It's not so much malice as incompetence. Like any other business, the people at the coal face are the ones making your money. You should look after their interests as much as your own.
And yes, women who come from South America to Europe to do sex work abroad often do so to support loved ones back home, rather than to just buy higher-priced handbags.Yes, this is particularly sad. Most of the S. American WG's I've known either have kids back there they're supporting, have brought them over with them or had them here. And if they can't work, there will be no well paid jobs in political lobbying organizations opening up for them. If their income doesn't meet their outgoings they'll run out of money & won't be able to afford to return to S. America. And few of them can expect any family support. They're on their own here. And it's not as if it's easy for them to find other jobs. Most don't have qualifications. And when it comes to employment, the Spanish understandably look after the Spanish first. It's only the lower paid jobs open to them, if at all. If you intended to fuck up their lives, this is how you would go about it. What's so particularly cruel is so many of them have tried to play it straight. They have their residence papers. They've been paying their autonomo social security payments. And they'll end up on minimum wage or Spain's meagre social security benefits. Or they'll try to continue working "black" & leave themselves open to exploitation by the criminals will move into what has become an illegal industry.
Andalus Expat
05-31-23, 11:38
Some good news for us in the past few days. PSOE got a caning in the regional elections with PP & Vox rampant. Sanchez is now scheduling national elections for July in the hope of getting back in before PSOE loses any more support. So we could be looking at a PP / Vox government in due course. Since PP was pretty evenly split on the sex work legislation & Vox largely opposed, there's a good chance most of it won't get on the statute books. Of course that does depend on the PP new intake. PP has its own "bleeding heart liberals" & PP may move somewhat in that direction as the price of getting in power. It may be the Vox showing makes the difference, since Vox tends to be rabid libertarian on most social issues.
Unfortunately, I can't see that making much difference to the advertising restrictions. Ground captured is very rarely surrendered.
It's also unfortunate that the women seem to have largely opted for the destacamos.com advertising platform after the demise of pasion.com I know why. It's cheaper to advertise & the placing ads interface is easier for them to understand. But Destacamos is sticking very closely to the legislation restrictions so they're having to claim to be masajistas or offering companionship for coffee mornings & walks in the park. Loquosex.com seems to be getting away with services offered & far more revealing photos. It's also more the site for the professionals with most ads featuring full face photos. Slumi.com, after its experiment with the scompi.com brand, has sharply declined in popularity. eurogirlsescort.com would be a good option for them. Since it's hosted outside Spain & not restricted by Spanish legislation. It lists by city & even has search options for details like age, price & services offered. Any photos they want to use. And, for our benefit, it even has a review facility. But there's the language barrier in the registration process, despite the fact that it's possible to choose to have the site displayed in Spanish. The English language landing page puts them off. I have got a few of the girls I know onto it. But one really has to do it for them. So if you know working girls & wish to volunteer. The other problem with all advertising for them is paying for it. Pasion.com ran a facility where they could pay in cash at ATM's. All advertising sites now require payment via card & many girls don't have them, because they don't have the financial history to open bank accounts. There is a route via prepay debit cards issued by Correos (the Spanish Post Office) & various other service providers, only requires a valid ID document. But it's not something many seem to know about.
Mongerer88
07-23-23, 23:47
The Socialist Asshole Sánchez is now weakened and may eventually be history.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/spaniards-vote-election-could-oust-050343776.html
But a weakened Sánchez is of little or no threat to get through additional restrictions on prostitution.
So the industry appears to be safe.
With a special thanks to the sex workers who serviced the Socialist leader in the Canary Islands, exposing hypocrisy that hurt the Socialists.
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/spain-ruling-socialists-rocked-corruption-scandal.1017717
Some good news for us in the past few days. PSOE got a caning in the regional elections with PP & Vox rampant. Sanchez is now scheduling national elections for July in the hope of getting back in before PSOE loses any more support. So we could be looking at a PP / Vox government in due course. Since PP was pretty evenly split on the sex work legislation & Vox largely opposed, there's a good chance most of it won't get on the statute books. Of course that does depend on the PP new intake. PP has its own "bleeding heart liberals" & PP may move somewhat in that direction as the price of getting in power. It may be the Vox showing makes the difference, since Vox tends to be rabid libertarian on most social issues.
Unfortunately, I can't see that making much difference to the advertising restrictions. Ground captured is very rarely surrendered.
It's also unfortunate that the women seem to have largely opted for the destacamos.com advertising platform after the demise of pasion.com I know why. It's cheaper to advertise & the placing ads interface is easier for them to understand. But Destacamos is sticking very closely to the legislation restrictions so they're having to claim to be masajistas or offering companionship for coffee mornings & walks in the park. Loquosex.com seems to be getting away with services offered & far more revealing photos. It's also more the site for the professionals with most ads featuring full face photos. Slumi.com, after its experiment with the scompi.com brand, has sharply declined in popularity. eurogirlsescort.com would be a good option for them. Since it's hosted outside Spain & not restricted by Spanish legislation. It lists by city & even has search options for details like age, price & services offered. Any photos they want to use. And, for our benefit, it even has a review facility. But there's the language barrier in the registration process, despite the fact that it's possible to choose to have the site displayed in Spanish. The English language landing page puts them off. I have got a few of the girls I know onto it. But one really has to do it for them. So if you know working girls & wish to volunteer. The other problem with all advertising for them is paying for it. Pasion.com ran a facility where they could pay in cash at ATM's. All advertising sites now require payment via card & many girls don't have them, because they don't have the financial history to open bank accounts. There is a route via prepay debit cards issued by Correos (the Spanish Post Office) & various other service providers, only requires a valid ID document. But it's not something many seem to know about.
Andalus Expat
07-24-23, 11:13
The Socialist Asshole Snchez is now weakened and may eventually be history.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/spaniards-vote-election-could-oust-050343776.html
But a weakened Snchez is of little or no threat to get through additional restrictions on prostitution.
So the industry appears to be safe.
With a special thanks to the sex workers who serviced the Socialist leader in the Canary Islands, exposing hypocrisy that hurt the Socialists.
https://timesofmalta.com/articles/view/spain-ruling-socialists-rocked-corruption-scandal.1017717Looking at the results on Monday morning, PP has gained the most seats but Vox has gone down from 59 to 33. So between them they have 169, failing to get the 176 would give them a majority in Parliament. Sanchez could just cling on with the support of the smaller parties. Or they could rerun the election. I wouldn't be so confident about the legislation. It's not a matter that's of great importance to the electorate. Any of the parties could use support or opposition to it as a bargaining chip in coalition negotiations. We're certainly unlikely to see a rollback of the law on the content of adverts.
And that, itself, has had exactly the adverse effects were predicted. It's favoured the facially pretty girls who are willing to use full face photos. So that's the women who don't live permanently in the area where they work. Largely the foreigners. It's hit hard the local girls who emphasised the services they offered, because they now can't advertise them. There's more than a few woman have given up working altogether as their client base has evaporated & they've been unable to renew it. Or they've had to go work away from home. And again, entirely predictably, punters are saying they've been offered services in the preliminary dialogue that were failed to be delivered in the encounter. And of course the inevitable false photos. What restrictive legislation always does. Favours the scammers. * And possibly why the clubs have been able to get away with their chiselling price rises.
The Canarias thing is indeed a hoot. There's been photos going around, I've been sent a stack, of fat, ugly, recognisable, bath robed, middle aged men in flagrante delicto with half naked putas, snorting lines of suspicious powder. You'd think the FKKs had come to Spain!
*Please. If you get caught like this, for the sake of all punters, don't meekly accept it. Complain LOUDLY & if you've paid, demand the return of your money & leave. You possibly won't get it but that gives reason to be even LOUDER at the door of the apartment. If you don't speak Spanish it's even better. Use your language of choice. For a start it'll upset any other clients in the flat. Better, it will piss off the neighbours. And some geezer shouting in the hallway in foreign in the middle of the night will do that better than anything. The likelihood is the neighbours will denounce the flat to Policia Local. If it was the girl, she'll likely be thrown out for hazarding the apartment. If it's the apartment, they had it coming. A single denuncio will mean problems with police. Several & they're shut down & gone. You may not realise it, but you're holding all the high cards.
I'd be inclined to do the same in a club. The security apes are largely for show. The last thing any club wants is a foreigner complaining to the police they've been assaulted there. That can get them closed temporarily or permanently. Again, the high cards are in your hand.
I could be wrong, but it looks like prostitution isn't an important topic anymore in Spanish politics.
Looking at the results on Monday morning, PP has gained the most seats but Vox has gone down from 59 to 33. So between them they have 169, failing to get the 176 would give them a majority in Parliament. Sanchez could just cling on with the support of the smaller parties. Or they could rerun the election. I wouldn't be so confident about the legislation. It's not a matter that's of great importance to the electorate. Any of the parties could use support or opposition to it as a bargaining chip in coalition negotiations. We're certainly unlikely to see a rollback of the law on the content of adverts.
And that, itself, has had exactly the adverse effects were predicted. It's favoured the facially pretty girls who are willing to use full face photos. So that's the women who don't live permanently in the area where they work. Largely the foreigners. It's hit hard the local girls who emphasised the services they offered, because they now can't advertise them. There's more than a few woman have given up working altogether as their client base has evaporated & they've been unable to renew it. Or they've had to go work away from home. And again, entirely predictably, punters are saying they've been offered services in the preliminary dialogue that were failed to be delivered in the encounter. And of course the inevitable false photos. What restrictive legislation always does. Favours the scammers. * And possibly why the clubs have been able to get away with their chiselling price rises.Problems with fake photos and false advertising of services is a problem that's been going on for a long time regardless of legislature.
Andalus Expat
07-24-23, 20:16
I could be wrong, but it looks like prostitution isn't an important topic anymore in Spanish politics.
Problems with fake photos and false advertising of services is a problem that's been going on for a long time regardless of legislature.Oh for sure. Nature of the game. But it was easier to spot the false ones if you're accustomed to reading them. Clues like two different girls' body shots being used for one girl's ad. Common one. Harder now because there's less information in both pics & text.
Andalus Expat
07-25-23, 15:37
I could be wrong, but it looks like prostitution isn't an important topic anymore in Spanish politics..Of course you're entirely correct. And it never was. It was the result of pressure groups with particular interests. Few of them aligning with the welfare of those in the industry. It just happens (ed) to be one of those things that if you ask a member of the public "are you in favour / against this / that " in the correct way you can usually rely on getting the answer suits your purpose. So you can then start talking about "popular support" and you're away.
Looks like the government has started to block websites? Some ISPs are blocking access (because of governmental notice). Following along in another forum, but for example nuevoloquo does not work for me anymore, slumi blocked and destacamos has a big notice on the top.
Yeah sure, we might figure out how to bypass this (with vpns) but no way the average girl is going to go through all this bullshit.
Fuck Spain for this BS
From what I read it seems to be a personal crusade from Ministry of Consumer Affairs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ministry_of_Consumer_Affairs_(Spain) to fine or shut down some of those websites. Why they waited until 1 year after they passed restrictions on advertising to enforce I don't know. It's probably just temporary, but you know never know with politics.
I found this link in the local BCN forum:https://www.noroestemadrid.com/2023/11/los-sitios-de-escorts-no-cierran-esto-es-lo-que-ocurre-en-verdad/.
Nuevoloquo completely shut down for me now, here is the page I get when going there.
Do we have a list of sites that we can still access from inside Spain? I'm mostly really worried about sexomercadobcn and now destacamos is the only other major one I can still go to.
Nuevoloquo completely shut down for me now, here is the page I get when going there.
Do we have a list of sites that we can still access from inside Spain? I'm mostly really worried about sexomercadobcn and now destacamos is the only other major one I can still go to.Actually pretty torn up about Slumi being down. I would also like a list of providers too. This sucks, the websites with ads, prices, and filters were the most convenient. Is this temporary? Why the fuck is the left wing of Spain of all parties so adamant about shutting down prostitution? And the right wing is for it? Makes no god damn sense.
Actually pretty torn up about Slumi being down. I would also like a list of providers too. This sucks, the websites with ads, prices, and filters were the most convenient. Is this temporary? Why the fuck is the left wing of Spain of all parties so adamant about shutting down prostitution? And the right wing is for it? Makes no god damn sense.The Spanish left basically adapted SJW / woke ideology from the Anglo countries, mainly those from US.
Andalus Expat
11-08-23, 10:14
Actually pretty torn up about Slumi being down. I would also like a list of providers too. This sucks, the websites with ads, prices, and filters were the most convenient. Is this temporary? Why the fuck is the left wing of Spain of all parties so adamant about shutting down prostitution? And the right wing is for it? Makes no god damn sense.Slumi isn't down. It renamed itself Scompi.com with a new domain & the Slumi landing page had been redirecting there for a while. Looks like the Slumi domain came up for renewal & they didn't bother about paying the 80. That said, Scompi hasn't been particularly popular with the xicas & the number of girls advertising in my locality has dropped from a couple dozen to five. Loquosex.com would be a far better site for them. As it permits listing of services. But not many are using that, either. And not many are using Eurogirls, although more than Scompi. For the girls, it'll always be the ease of placing the adds which will be the criteria the popularity a site will depend on. Most of them aren't very bright & don't learn easily. The very simple Pasion tested a lot of their abilities. Destacamos seems to have the closest registration procedure to Pasion's, so that's what most seem to have have opted for. Despite it probably being the worst platform for what they want to market.
Of course the best site to find them is https://es-es.escort-advisor.com, the review site. And if some punter puts a review they can add their own message, photos & services offered. Unfortunately, the girls themselves tend to be shy of review sites because of the possibility of getting a poor review. They'd actually have to reliably do what they're promising. And as we all have learnt to our cost, a lot of them don't.
Andalus Expat
11-08-23, 11:29
After making the previous post it occurred that probably the best advertising platforms for girls in Spain would be sites that aren't registered in Spain & labouring under Spanish restrictions. Eurogirls I've already mentioned. I think that's registered in Lithuania & carries full body naked photos & lists services. That does attract some of the high end girls so be prepared for eye watering prices. Although more devious amongst us will the same girls advertising on Destacamos, sometimes with different names & phone numbers, at lower prices. So we know which number to contact, don't we? Another & much neglected site is the Spanish section of the UK's Adultwork. Currently infested with Brit women of often advanced years asking ridiculous rates. A mug trap for the uninformed. Adultwork does have some stiff validation requirements for advertisers & customer feedback which would be a challenge to girls who are accustomed to the Spanish practises of lying & false photos but is why it's become the UK's go to prossie resource.
And lastly, there is this site's Classified Adverts. Which could have enormous potential. I did, some years ago, put an advert for a girl in that section & she received a veritable deluge of enquiries & clients off the back of it. I had another couple of girls I wanted to place ads for. They can't do it for themselves because they can't handle doing the registration in English. Both attempts were blocked by the site itself. Why? Two guesses. Either the repeated use of the same IP address or a cookie was tripping a spam filter. Or using separate e-mail account registrations but carried on the same domain was doing the same. Since I would have had to manage the adverts on their behalf I was using e-mail accounts generated out of a web domain I own, where I have easy access to them as administrator, rather than having to repeatedly log in & out of multiple gmail accounts & all the problems that can cause. Maybe this board's Administration could supply some input. It does seem a shame that what could be a valuable resource of information, ISG's Classified Ads / Spain, gets so little use. Especially as the advantages of paid membership for advertisers would generate site income. If it was successful, it would be possible to leverage up to full paid for banner ads linking to an external site. As we are having to cope with, there is currently a considerable advertising deficit for punters visiting Spain. The girls would certainly benefit from it.
After making the previous post it occurred that probably the best advertising platforms for girls in Spain would be sites that aren't registered in Spain & labouring under Spanish restrictions. Eurogirls I've already mentioned. I think that's registered in Lithuania & carries full body naked photos & lists services. That does attract some of the high end girls so be prepared for eye watering prices. Although more devious amongst us will the same girls advertising on Destacamos, sometimes with different names & phone numbers, at lower prices. So we know which number to contact, don't we? Another & much neglected site is the Spanish section of the UK's Adultwork. Currently infested with Brit women of often advanced years asking ridiculous rates. A mug trap for the uninformed. Adultwork does have some stiff validation requirements for advertisers & customer feedback which would be a challenge to girls who are accustomed to the Spanish practises of lying & false photos but is why it's become the UK's go to prossie resource.
And lastly, there is this site's Classified Adverts. Which could have enormous potential. I did, some years ago, put an advert for a girl in that section & she received a veritable deluge of enquiries & clients off the back of it. I had another couple of girls I wanted to place ads for. They can't do it for themselves because they can't handle doing the registration in English. Both attempts were blocked by the site itself. Why? Two guesses. Either the repeated use of the same IP address or a cookie was tripping a spam filter. Or using separate e-mail account registrations but carried on the same domain was doing the same. Since I would have had to manage the adverts on their behalf I was using e-mail accounts generated out of a web domain I own, where I have easy access to them as administrator, rather than having to repeatedly log in & out of multiple gmail accounts & all the problems that can cause. Maybe this board's Administration could supply some input. It does seem a shame that what could be a valuable resource of information, ISG's Classified Ads / Spain, gets so little use. Especially as the advantages of paid membership for advertisers would generate site income. If it was successful, it would be possible to leverage up to full paid for banner ads linking to an external site. As we are having to cope with, there is currently a considerable advertising deficit for punters visiting Spain. The girls would certainly benefit from it.Funny thing is that prostitution is completely illegal in Lithuania. Escort-Advisor is more popular in Italy than Spain. As for the advertising ban I think what working girls and the groups that represent them should do next is try to lobby to get the advertising ban repealed or take it to their Supreme Court. The PSOE is still in power for now, but they don't control the senate and they are the mercy of the pro-separatist groups, who support prostitution.
Andalus Expat
11-09-23, 13:58
Funny thing is that prostitution is completely illegal in Lithuania. You're quite correct. My bad. Looking it up, the eurogirlsescort.com domain is registered to an address in Praha, Czech Republic. Similar to Pasion.com, which was registered to a Paris, France address.
The problem with advertising is not necessarily the domicile of the site but monetising the service that pays for it. As Internationalsexguide found out when the card companies (Visa / Mastercard / Amex) withdrew its money transmission facilities. It's likely what did for Pasion. Pasion largely relied on its advertisers paying cash for their adverts via ATM machines & no doubt the Spanish banks withdrew the facility. But like ISG, the amounts of money involved would be trivial. But neither the banks nor the card companies are likely to defund the entirety of the world's sex industry to appease a few Spanish politicians. The turnovers are in hundreds of billions. The profits for the companies in billions. So the answer to Spanish puta advertising is don't advertise from Spain but from somewhere else. Of course there's always the problem of regional domain blocking by the ISPs. But that's what VPNs were invented for.
You're quite correct. My bad. Looking it up, the eurogirlsescort.com domain is registered to an address in Praha, Czech Republic. Similar to Pasion.com, which was registered to a Paris, France address.
The problem with advertising is not necessarily the domicile of the site but monetising the service that pays for it. As Internationalsexguide found out when the card companies (Visa / Mastercard / Amex) withdrew its money transmission facilities. It's likely what did for Pasion. Pasion largely relied on its advertisers paying cash for their adverts via ATM machines & no doubt the Spanish banks withdrew the facility. But like ISG, the amounts of money involved would be trivial. But neither the banks nor the card companies are likely to defund the entirety of the world's sex industry to appease a few Spanish politicians. The turnovers are in hundreds of billions. The profits for the companies in billions. So the answer to Spanish puta advertising is don't advertise from Spain but from somewhere else. Of course there's always the problem of regional domain blocking by the ISPs. But that's what VPNs were invented for.I bet the people who owns those websites are strongly "connected".
Well now I am using Opera with their built in VPN to access nuevoloquo and destacamos. Which is unfucking believable, is this fucking North Korea?
How fucking stupid of this government. Instead of tax it, make it legal, give the girls healthcare and retirement. They push it underground where it's GOING TO HAPPEN ANYWAY.
Attached is an image of the recommended VPNs to use to access the sites. Was incredibly easy to use Opera and their free VPN so hopefully it doesn't turn away too many girls.
What are everyone's thoughts on them passing legislation to make it 100% illegal?
Some people in local BCN forum fear the government will block everything including their forum, but I have doubts. I read those websites went down because of technical reasons. Like I said before the PSOE adapted woke ideology from overseas (mainly from USA) and try to impose it on Spain. It's not the same party that decriminalized prostitution back in mid 1990's. Why they became woke I don't know. Perhaps they want to re-imagine the party to fit the 21st century. Or want to appease the feminist lobbyists. There are people who can answer better. They tried to ban prostitution earlier, but it never happened. With the fragile government they have (their partners are pro-separtist parties who support prostitution) it's going to very difficult to try again.
Andalus Expat
11-15-23, 17:09
With the fragile government they have (their partners are pro-separtist parties who support prostitution) it's going to very difficult to try again.I wouldn't be too sure of that. Precarious governments are always dangerous because their sole interest is staying in power. Policies take second place. It's just the sort of issue they might give ground to some small, unrepresentative, group in the Cortes to gain support on some other matter more important to them. Way politics works.
Andalus Expat
11-21-23, 12:25
The Destacamos.com escort advertising site has been unavailable since yesterday morning. If you're in Spain, your browser may display a site security certificate warning but if you try the domain via a VPN from a US IP address, you'll see a suspension notice issued by the Spanish Consumer Ministry.
That's going to be causing serious problems for the girls, because Destacamos took over as their favoured site when Pasion closed. Loquosex & Scompi are still running normally but I just got a browser site certificate warning on Mileroticos, so looks like that one's been embargoed as well. As yet not displaying the Consumer Ministry warning on VPN but that may come. So it looks like the Spanish Government have escalated their War On Prostitution & are blocking sites that were attempting with their content to stay within the letter of the law. Whether this action would survive an appeal to the law courts is an interesting proposition. But you'd need very deep pockets to initiate lawfare with government lawyers & that could take months if not years.
So what happens now? The women may try to migrate their advertising to the still functioning sites. But they're neither particularly bright not internet literate. The last migration from Pasion to Destacamos took over a month for them to get their acts together & a lot dropped out along the way. And there's no guarantee those sites will survive. The Min of Cul may just be working through from the most to the least popular. I see that some of the Barcelona sites like www.sexomercadobcn.com are still untroubled but how long that will last?
I do have a great sympathy for the girls. Already I've received several Whatsapps from girls had my number, obviously plying for hire. The ones it's going to hit particularly hard are the migratory ones move from town to town. They may have rocked up in some city hoping to work & found they've no way of getting work & no money for accommodation or onward travel. They'll be hungry & on the streets. Very sad.
I didn't see a warning message when I accessed Destacamos.com without VPN in the USA. I found out earlier today that the Minister responsible for Consumer Affairs, Alberto Garzóand, has resigned and quit politics. Source (in Spanish):https://www.libremercado.com/2023-11-17/alberto-garzon-se-despide-de-la-politica-alardeando-de-las-medidas-mas-relevantes-aprobadas-desde-consumo-7070838/.
The Destacamos.com escort advertising site has been unavailable since yesterday morning. If you're in Spain, your browser may display a site security certificate warning but if you try the domain via a VPN from a US IP address, you'll see a suspension notice issued by the Spanish Consumer Ministry.
I do have a great sympathy for the girls. Already I've received several Whatsapps from girls had my number, obviously plying for hire. The ones it's going to hit particularly hard are the migratory ones move from town to town. They may have rocked up in some city hoping to work & found they've no way of getting work & no money for accommodation or onward travel. They'll be hungry & on the streets. Very sad.All sites are working with VPN for me (and I am using a US IP address with my VPN). See image attached.
If all these sites can just put a simple "how to" on the top, it's so easy.
I mean it sucks there is no question about it. But to circumvent it all you need to do is download Opera browser, click VPN in the top left and you can see everything.
Once this becomes second nature to use a vpn (we have to explain to the girls how to do it, it's so easy), I would imagine things would be 'normal' until there is another step in the crackdown (I. E. Making it 100% illegal).
Is there any pace where one can find cheap or reasonably priced BJ's with good looking girls? One of things I hate about online escorts is that you cannot negotiate for specific services.
https://www.nuevoloquo.ch/
Looks like nuevoloquo is back without the need for a VPN.
Wonder how long or if the spanish goverment can block this for the country? I suppose they can just tell the internet providors to not allow this address.
So I'm wondering maybe the lawyers at nuevoloquo know something that they'd attempt to put the site back up with the. Ch domain name?
Adding onto my last post, now https://www.destacamos.net/ is available too.
So that means the two largest sites are now accessible without a VPN. More girls will probably follow also. pasion.com was the best of the best, hopefully they come up with a solution also?
https://www.nuevoloquo.ch/
https://www.destacamos.net/
Not sure if the owners think the government will block them or if this really is a long term solution. I think the vote on the prostitution ban is coming up soon also?
Also, a nice bonus is that if you look at any old link that does not load without a vpn from either of these sites, if you replace the .COM for nuevoloquo with .CH or .COM for destacamos with .NET the page will load.
For example:
https://www.nuevoloquo.com/escort/barcelona/carol-guapa-peque-a-dulzura-recibo-sola/535928/
https://www.destacamos.com/780958-chicas-escorts-navarra-602013408-contactos/details.html
Does not work in Spain
But
https://www.destacamos.net/780958-chicas-escorts-navarra-602013408-contactos/details.html
https://www.nuevoloquo.ch/escort/barcelona/carol-guapa-peque-a-dulzura-recibo-sola/535928/
Does... same exact ad.
I wouldn't worry too much. The owners of those websites probably knows more what's going on behind the scenes in the Spanish parliament than we do. In the end it's all just political bullshit.
Andalus Expat
03-25-24, 21:57
Adding onto my last post, now https://www.destacamos.net/ is available too.
So that means the two largest sites are now accessible without a VPN. More girls will probably follow also. pasion.com was the best of the best, hopefully they come up with a solution also?
https://www.nuevoloquo.ch/
https://www.destacamos.net/
Not sure if the owners think the government will block them or if this really is a long term solution. I think the vote on the prostitution ban is coming up soon also?
Also, a nice bonus is that if you look at any old link that does not load without a vpn from either of these sites, if you replace the .COM for nuevoloquo with .CH or .COM for destacamos with .NET the page will load.
For example:
https://www.nuevoloquo.com/escort/barcelona/carol-guapa-peque-a-dulzura-recibo-sola/535928/
https://www.destacamos.com/780958-chicas-escorts-navarra-602013408-contactos/details.html
Does not work in Spain
But
https://www.destacamos.net/780958-chicas-escorts-navarra-602013408-contactos/details.html
https://www.nuevoloquo.ch/escort/barcelona/carol-guapa-peque-a-dulzura-recibo-sola/535928/
Does... same exact ad.It's a bit hard to see the logic behind the move from a dotCom domain to a dotNet, since the new site's still registered in the Balearic Isles & thus still under Spanish legal jurisdiction. In due course the government's likely to put the same redirect on this one as it did with the dotCom. Make more sense to register the site outside Spain & better outside the EU altogether. US registration would make it protected by the 1st Amendment. Government could theoretically still get the Spanish ISP's to block it but that could raise several legal problems. Registering a site in the US is easy enough. I've one of mine registered there. Just requires a US address & phone number. Cell will suffice. Unless they've they've cloned the dotCom site to the dotNet & have plans for the dotCom along those lines.
As BaltiX says, it political bullshit of particularly low grade. Hard to wonder why they bother except in the sense of "This site is offensive! Something should be done!" "We hear you. This is something". It's the interweb FFS! Nothing is blockable because there's always a way around the blocking. It was designed like that.
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