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As far as Racism in Ukraine is concerned, and this is coming from a Ukrainian born and bred. Ukraine is one of the least racist countries I have ever had the pleasure to live in, so I don't really understand those comments, Of course racism exists, it is generally reserved for blacks, but that is something endemic to ALL of Europe where the term " neger " is still prevalent with regards to labeling blacks. But if you never lived in Ukraine during it's Socialist years, I would be the first to tell you that racism was basically abolished during those later years in general terms, you had Chinese, Vietnamese, Arab, Persian, Latin American and even African students coming in the hundreds of thousands to study all over Ukraine and Kiev in particular, a good portion of which stayed and live here today. Also, for anyone that hasn't actually traveled through Ukraine you should know, there are huge communities of Crimean Tartars, Crimean Greeks, Poles, Ethnic Russians, Armenians, Belarusians, so on and so forth, and most if not all of these ethnic groups are cousins, if not brothers to Ukrainian people and are treated as such. And the majority aren't blonde haired and blue eyed, you have all types of people with dark hair, dark skin and dark eyes and many if not all women find this extremely attractive in Ukraine.
I would definitely not take the generalization that Ukraine is a racist country seriously, there is still some discrimination towards blacks, kinda like in the US, it is no longer overt but continues to be covert, but as far as Latins, most Arabs and Persians and now even Asians, it is pretty much non existant, and as far as other ethnic groups living in Ukraine for milleniums or centuries like the Tartars or Greeks, it hasn't existed for a long time, though there will always be a general prejudice ( not racism ) towards people that come and settle in the country and don't know or understand the language, it seems disrespectful to Ukrainians, who in the most part, know, understand and are fluent in at least 2-4 languages, usually being, russian, ukrainian and german, and recently english.
I think you are a humble respectful culturally diverse person who at least makes an effort to learn the language while on your stay, you will generally be greeted with the same respect and understanding.
Of course, there are some exceptions, you will always find some bone heads, but ratio wise, I think you will find much less than in other countries.
Again, I am Ukrainian, I was born here, I have studied here, I have half my family here, I have traveled all over Ukraine, I have friends of just about every racial group, and I have never seen a wide spread racial discrimination the likes of which I have seen in countries like Sweden ( where blacks were for a long time shunned and discriminated against by the local male youth population ) or the USA, where ,Native Americans, Blacks, Latins, Asians and now Muslim Arabs are routinely discriminated against, in social, cultural and economic terms, or even Latin America, where the lighter more European Castizo and Mestizo classes have historically discriminated against the Native American polupations. I have lived and spent time in all these cultures and countries and hands down as far as racism and discrimination goes Ukraine and Kiev in particular are not racist. There are always exceptions, but IMHO much less than in any other country I have been in.
Evil Z
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
I met exactly the same scam Jdaba described but it happened to me in the bus station when I was about to leave Ukrine.A person showed me a police medal and told me he was investigating for fake money.The rest I have described.
In the airport officers who ask about money maybe are asking for some bribe to get you avoid the nuisance.Ukrainians make a lot of use of psychology.They know you are in a hurry and want to leave and you have to thinka nd take care of a lot of things.They spot people leaving alone.In this way they can put the maximum pressure and create condition of blackmail and shortness of time with no time to react.You feel almost paralysed because they act very quickly.
The best approach in my opinion is to be quick as well and slap them hard or start yelling to them making obnoxious gestures.In this way they may feel some fear and stop.
In general people have very few rights in Ukraine and they are used to be treated like animals.
I didn't really understand your advise Hecker, are you telling people to slap the Military official hard? Is this a joke ? Just an FYI for anyone that doesn't know, the immigrations officials in Ukraine and since we are talking about Kiev, at Borispol airport are not civilians, they are military personnel as the borders are controlled by the military, I would not advise ANYONE to agitate, slap, physically intimidate any military official in Ukraine. You will get arrested and they will treat you accordingly.
Ukrainians have a democratic constitution and they have rights just like in any other democratic country, we are not treated like dogs. In our country respect is given when it is received. If you come here as a disrespectful foreigner you will be treated like one, if you come here with respect you will receive the same in kind.
And your statement about people being treated like dogs is like me saying in the US, native americans, blacks, latins, the poor trailer trash and arabs are used to being treated like dogs and have very few rights and, in earnest, many people would agree with me. Just look at new orleans for an example. But I won't say that because it has nothing to do with money scams, Kiev or mongering therein.
My only advise would be to tell all travelers to understand that these types of scams occur in many countries around the world, I have never personally experienced this type of scam in Ukraine, but as a seasoned traveler I am aware of them all over the world and I know how to act if and when the moment comes. If you are in this situation and you think you can get out of it for a 20 dollar bill, go for it, if not, just ride it out. If you have done nothing wrong, I doubt you will be shipped off to guantanamo without trial, so just roll with the punches, if you can't do that, this hobby probably isn't for you.
Evil Z
The best approach in my opinion is to be quick as well and slap them hard or start yelling to them making obnoxious gestures.In this way they may feel some fear and stop.
In general people have very few rights in Ukraine and they are used to be treated like animals.
Yeah Evil, sometimes I get Ukraine confused with Disneyland too, the happiest place on earth. I must get confused when I see my well dressed arab friends hassled by the police in Kiev while I, a well dressed white boy is left alone. You are right, the FSU isn't known for it's rampant xenophobia at all. The next time I'm in Kiev I'll be sure to lead some drunk Ukrainians on the street in a few choruses of 'We are the world', of course after they finish beating a arab or black guy.
Umm Hecker, you really think acting violent and threatening in an airport is a good course of action? Sounds like a good way to make sure you are headed to the back room for a full cavity body search.
Uke, I could be wrong but I thought a few years ago I saw a sign hanging un the customs area that no uah was to leave the country. I could have been easily mistaken. I figured if they want the 40-200uah I usually leave with they can have it. :)
sometimes I get Ukraine confused with Disneyland too, the happiest place on earth. I must get confused when I see my well dressed arab friends hassled by the police in Kiev while I, a well dressed white boy is left alone. You are right, the FSU isn't known for it's rampant xenophobia at all. The next time I'm in Kiev I'll be sure to lead some drunk Ukrainians on the street in a few choruses of 'We are the world', of course after they finish beating a arab or black guy.You seem to think that a few isolated events are the norm, as I said, of course these things happen in any country, but it isn't the norm in Kiev. I also have a few arab friends and we go all over Kiev together, all the time and nothing ever happened to them in my presence. Now maybe this had something to do with the fact that I was with them, but they never complained about any high level of racism other than what your second description was, a bunch of rowdy (probably drunk) youths out looking for fist fights, now lets be honest, there is more racism between Persians and Arabs in Kiev than there ever will be between Arabs and Ukrainians.
I never said it was Disneyland (that is something you made up to try to invalidate my opinion) but it sure isn't Alabama, I stand by my statement that Ukraine is, in general, a very culturally accepting country if you approach it with respect, and the racism is minimal compared to the US, Latin America and many Western European nations. I am not saying 0% racism, I am saying on average compared to other countries in the world, it is much less. I would personally see an African or Arab getting beaten in many western capitals much more probable than it happening in Kiev, I mean be honest, I am guessing as a professed " white boy " you are from the USA, then you should know that the level of police brutality, discrimination, racism so on and so forth there is not even comparable to the small time militia bothering foreigners for paperwork in Kiev. You have the right to your opinion, as do I, that is it. I am not trying to change yours, don't try to change mine, I am just giving another point of view to the forum membership. I just don't want everyone here to think your way of seeing things is the only reality, and I hope you don't either, no reason or need for sarcasm.
Regards,
Evil Z
Actually I started yelling to two women emploees in Dnipro airport when the flight was cancelled and they did not provide alternative and while at the begiining they tried to ignore me or make fun, at the end they both started crying. I have never seen an emploee crying before. So I guess persistence gives results.
As for the airport they ask for money you have on you because theoretically they want to find the person who sold drugs in Ukraine coming from abroad.
I guess it is stupid to think that such a person would carry his profits to the airport to get money out of Ukraine. But this provides them a legal reason to ask for cash exported. They can search bags etc.
It is funny that at borders you are faced with questions by officers like do you bring drugs in the baggage, probably thinking that a person actually doing this would confess of course here are my drugs.
And then they even do not search the baggage. The word no is enough for declaration. But they search for profits when getting out.
Doctor_Skank
10-14-07, 14:44
Ukraine is one of the least racist countries I have ever had the pleasure to live in, so I don't really understand those comments, Of course racism exists, it is generally reserved for blacks, but that is something endemic to ALL of Europe where the term " neger " is still prevalent with regards to labeling blacks. But if you never lived in Ukraine during it's Socialist years, I would be the first to tell you that racism was basically abolished during those later years in general terms, you had Chinese, Vietnamese, Arab, Persian, Latin American and even African students coming in the hundreds of thousands to study all over Ukraine and Kiev in particular, a good portion of which stayed and live here today.
In theory all communist countries and ex-communist are devoid of racism, just like they were devoid of religion, corruption and poverty. Happy happy joy joy. Yeah right.
Under strong central government rule, the "no racism" facade held up, but since the country has turned into a free for all the true prejudices of its citizenship have come out.
I've found Ukrainians to be quite racist in their comments. This doesn't mean dark-skinned or foreign guys are going to get beaten to a bloody pulp just for coming to Ukraine, but they very well may have to deal with some hassles of various degrees of significance.
The best approach in my opinion is to be quick as well and slap them hard or start yelling to them making obnoxious gestures.In this way they may feel some fear and stop.
I really hope you were being sarcastic. Slapping anyone in a uniform is a sure-fire way to get slapped back. I couldn't imagine a stupider thing to do. You're not a mafia kingpin and if you strike a policeman, soldier, tax officer or whatever nobody is going to help you and even your embassy will have its work cut out to do to clear things up. It'll be expensive. Firm calmness is much more effective than violence. Militia and tax authorities aren't ever afraid of YOU, they are afraid of who YOU MIGHT KNOW.
Uke, I could be wrong but I thought a few years ago I saw a sign hanging un the customs area that no uah was to leave the country. I could have been easily mistaken. I figured if they want the 40-200uah I usually leave with they can have it. :)
It was that way a few years back... no cash in, no cash out... but that changed about Eurovision time if I recall correctly.
As far as your other comments, you are correct though I would disagree that your embassy can help you if you physically assault a Ukrainian official, it is the law of reciprocity, would a Ukrainian who hit a US police officer have any recourse in the Ukrainian embassy ? I think not, unless you are a diplomat of some sort, you are subject to foreign law when you are in a foreign country, at least that is what international law mandates. So before anyone tries to do something that idiotic, please remember your embassy can't do shit for you. And you are right Skank, they aren't afraid of you, you are in their ( our ) country after all, and as an American they generally aren't that afraid of who you know, chances are very few scary people would vouch for you anyway.
Just take it easy, enjoy the women, the food, the culture and as always remain respectful while in another mans house, take off your cultural " shoes " at the border and I guarantee you will have a much better time than if you didn't take my advice.
Evil Z
I've found Ukrainians to be quite racist in their comments. This doesn't mean dark-skinned or foreign guys are going to get beaten to a bloody pulp just for coming to Ukraine, but they very well may have to deal with some hassles of various degrees of significance.I appreciate your opinion but I hope you understand it is worth what I paid for it, and so is mine for that matter. I will make this my last post on the subject
I clearly stated, there is racism in Ukraine, just like in any country, but it is much less prevalent than in most other Western European, North American and Latin American countries. Am I getting my point across here? The racism you will find here is minimal compared to the kind of racism one might find in the USA, Latin America or many other Western European countries and much of it has to do with the forced integration during Socialism, I won't say Communism because that would be a mistake since true communism has never existed beyond the conceptual point, the rest of it goes back thousands of years and is part of our shared multi ethnic history and culture.
My second point is this, BTW, another point you seemed to have glossed over, There is a large majority of Ukrainians who are actually dark skinned, Crimean Tartars, Crimean Greeks, Mongol, Khazar, Bulgar, Hungar, Ottoman. Should I go on? If we discriminate dark skinned people we are discriminating a large portion of our own people. Ethnic minorities from varying ex Soviet Republics, Armenians and so on, so no matter how racist you think we are, we are not only multi cultural in actuality but also multi racial. It seems to me you don't really know or understand Ukrainian history, we were colonized by not only mongols but tartars as well, and it is a great misconception that Ukrainians are all light skinned people with blue eyes. That is personally one of the most attractive thing about Ukrainian women, some are straight out blonde haired blue eyed beauties, but so many other have this racial ambiguity that is quite attractive and mysterious. If you haven't noticed this I don't know what Ukraine you have visited.
I am Ukrainian and for you to generalize is quite patronizing, I do know fellow Ukrainians that do make comments but they are the minority. The Ukrainian culture has always historically been an accepting culture. I find it funny for foreigners to come here for a couple years and try to tell US what our country is and isn't. But you can think what you want, just as long as you understand I disagree. None of this matters, everyone has a different view and experience of Ukraine and that is alright, I am just making sure the forum members don't just read one jaded version of what Ukraine really is.
Regards,
Evil Z
Evil, I don't know which is worse..being black in the American south or Jewish in the FSU. Toss a coin is my guess. However I don't think being a black jew would be good in either place. :)
Evil, I don't know which is worse..being black in the American south or Jewish in the FSU. Toss a coin is my guess. However I don't think being a black jew would be good in either place. :)I actually wouldn't mind being a jew in the FSU, just ask Berezovsky or Abramovich how it has worked out for them ? I would trade places with those two any day. Just an FYI cruise, about half the Russian oligarchs are Russian Jews, so we aren't living during the days of Stalin or Nazi pogroms, and it is actually working out pretty well for many. So I would choose being a Russian Jew, maybe I can then move to London, buy a football team, live on the Thames, and spend billions on private jets, yachts and supermodel girlfriends. ;)
Regards,
Evil Z
I agree there is no racism in Ukraine. In the west gilrs look like polish, in the east like russians and in the south like mediterranean. There is obvious mix in Kiev with many girls having typical slavic characteristics and many others with asian or exotic mixed typs. However they are not so heavily influenced by tatar appearance like russian girls which is good in my opinion. I believe that ukrainian girls look more slavic than russian girls and more than polish and czech girls who have a certain proprtion of german blood. So ukrainian girls maybe the most slavic girls in the world and their mentality sure is.
I did not write about uniformed policemen. The ones who are involved in scams do no carry uniforms. They show a police medal. So I have doubt if they are real policemen who work undercover. Anyway it is difficult to object if they ask for the money to inspect them.
Another dangerous place is the metro. The tactic thievs use is to come in pairs one in front of you and one behind you, sandwich you between them so you cannot move and then search you for money. It has happened to me once, I could not react at all. Fortunately they did not find the wallet.
It is better to avoid entering the metro if it is crowded as it usually happns in the central stations.
Kive center is very pleasant because there is money there and it is obvious. You can have a great time. I agree with EvilX.
I do not agree that corruption makes more girls available. In my opinion corruption makes girls more tricky and raises their demands while making them unreliable. I would rather prefer honest girls with the same attitude like it mostly happens in the west Ukraine.
Two times I have invite a Ukraine girl. No problem in getting a visa at all.
to which country did you invite the girls? to est Europe too? How is the procedure to get this visas? time and money?
Doctor_Skank
10-15-07, 00:31
As far as your other comments, you are correct though I would disagree that your embassy can help you if you physically assault a Ukrainian official, it is the law of reciprocity, would a Ukrainian who hit a US police officer have any recourse in the Ukrainian embassy ? I think not, unless you are a diplomat of some sort, you are subject to foreign law when you are in a foreign country, at least that is what international law mandates. So before anyone tries to do something that idiotic, please remember your embassy can't do shit for you. And you are right Skank, they aren't afraid of you, you are in their ( our ) country after all, and as an American they generally aren't that afraid of who you know, chances are very few scary people would vouch for you anyway.
We agree on this... I didn't say an embassy could always help... I said they would try, but they would be fighting an uphill battle.
As far as the "who you know"... if you are an average tourist, they'll figure out quickly that you don't know anybody scary. Agreed, playing the dancing monkey won't go far.
Doctor_Skank
10-15-07, 00:37
I clearly stated, there is racism in Ukraine, just like in any country, but it is much less prevalent than in most other Western European, North American and Latin American countries....
My second point is this, BTW, another point you seemed to have glossed over, There is a large majority of Ukrainians who are actually dark skinned, Crimean Tartars, Crimean Greeks, Mongol, Khazar, Bulgar, Hungar, Ottoman. Should I go on? If we discriminate dark skinned people we are discriminating a large portion of our own people.
I wouldn't necessarily agree, but then again I am white, so what do I know.
As for the dark-skinned Ukrainians... it depends on their background and social position. For example Crim Tartars are absolutely looked down upon. It's all relative (no pun intended) but I hardly think it's correct to say Ukraine is LESS racist than Europe or the US, particularly in terms of non-Ukrainian/ex-USSR born dark-skinned foreigners.
I'll agree with you that it shouldn't be overblown, but foreigners going to Ukraine should at least know of potential problems that might occur.
I'll agree with you that it shouldn't be overblown, but foreigners going to Ukraine should at least know of potential problems that might occur.As with all racism, it is usually economic in origin, but if you ever go to Crimea or Odessa and see the Ukrainian Greeks, they aren't considered dark skinned Ukrainian greeks, they are considered Ukrainians of partial Greek ancestry, you must understand we are talking about, in some cases, thousands of years of integration. It does exist, but part of the beauty of Ukrainians is their racial ambiguity. To whoever you talk to, they have a different racial make up. I know Belarussian Ukrainians, Polish Ukrainian, and Slavic Ukrainians in the west, many beautiful Greek, Jewish, and Tartar Ukrainian girls in the south, a majority Russian and Khazar Ukrainian community in the east. They are a part of daily life, Add in all the recent immigrants from all around the world and you get quite a diverse country I am very proud of. And of course there are some who feel superior, but they are the minority. So we can just agree to disagree here. But if you ever live here and really get to know and understand the country from the inside out, maybe you will learn a little bit of the soul of Ukraine.
But I agree, all tourists and foreigners should know that racism is something they should plan on dealing with in every country, it DOES exist in Ukraine, but in my opinion it is minimal compared to most other tourist attractions of predominantly lighter skinned citizens. I am a light skinned individual (although not blonde haired or blue eyed), but many of my friends aren't, after traveling through out many different countries, I am always amazed at how (generally speaking) accepting my, culture, my country, and my people are. I hope that translates in my post.
Regards,
Evil Z
I was amazed at the prejudice against Gypsies by Ukrainians. If you are American or EU, to them your lucky and many think you did not have to work for anything. The problem is that I have found that many of the Ukrainians complain about their corrupt goverment but have no problem taking you to the cleaners if you let them.
I equate it to the fact that the only guideline to ethics for many years was socialism where you were in violation of the law using black market capitalism, in violation of Soviet Ethics and laws. Now Capitalism is king along with same underground lack of eithics capitalism had under socialism.
On the undercover cop note; Someone had informed me of a scam which uses a so called undercover cop. It happened to me and I walked away with an attitude of bullshit and they did not follow. Somebody drops a wallet close to you, don’t pick it up. The alleged “undercover” cop will immediately approach you flipping a badge and the guy who dropped the wallet will then approach. They will get you to show them your money because the guy will say some of his is missing. The only thing that ends up missing is some or all of your money.
As with all racism, it is usually economic in origin, but if you ever go to Crimea or Odessa and see the Ukrainian Greeks, they aren't considered dark skinned Ukrainian greeks, they are considered Ukrainians of partial Greek ancestry, you must understand we are talking about, in some cases, thousands of years of integration. It does exist, but part of the beauty of Ukrainians is their racial ambiguity. To whoever you talk to, they have a different racial make up. I know Belarussian Ukrainians, Polish Ukrainian, and Slavic Ukrainians in the west, many beautiful Greek, Jewish, and Tartar Ukrainian girls in the south, a majority Russian and Khazar Ukrainian community in the east. They are a part of daily life, Add in all the recent immigrants from all around the world and you get quite a diverse country I am very proud of. And of course there are some who feel superior, but they are the minority. So we can just agree to disagree here. But if you ever live here and really get to know and understand the country from the inside out, maybe you will learn a little bit of the soul of Ukraine.
But I agree, all tourists and foreigners should know that racism is something they should plan on dealing with in every country, it DOES exist in Ukraine, but in my opinion it is minimal compared to most other tourist attractions of predominantly lighter skinned citizens. I am a light skinned individual (although not blonde haired or blue eyed), but many of my friends aren't, after traveling through out many different countries, I am always amazed at how (generally speaking) accepting my, culture, my country, and my people are. I hope that translates in my post.
Regards,
Evil Z
I was amazed at the prejudice against Gypsies Don't be, they are the pariahs of Europe. Have you seen how they are treated all over Europe? Though I have seen some very hot gypsy girls, but I would never bone them, I hear they have tails.
Now Capitalism is king I know, ain't life grand ?:rolleyes:
On the undercover cop note; Someone had informed me of a scam which uses a so called undercover cop. It happened to me and I walked away with an attitude of bullshit and they did not follow. Somebody drops a wallet close to you, don’t pick it up. The alleged “undercover” cop will immediately approach you flipping a badge and the guy who dropped the wallet will then approach. They will get you to show them your money because the guy will say some of his is missing. The only thing that ends up missing is some or all of your money.Thanks for the tip, I have heard of the exact same scam in South America, Don't ever pick up money or wallets conveniently left on the floor. Chances are it might be some sort of scam.
Evil Z
Doctor_Skank
10-16-07, 09:07
Don't be, they are the pariahs of Europe. Have you seen how they are treated all over Europe? Though I have seen some very hot gypsy girls, but I would never bone them, I hear they have tails.
When I was in Bulgaria a few years ago I knew this German guy that used to screw the gypsy hos that lined the country roads. I cost like $5 or something, seriously. Anyway, he kept doing that and loving it... until one day after banging one in his car he got a tick on his balls... and he was convinced the thing crawled from her bush onto his sack. End of story.
I've conveniently left "scraggly gypsy highway ho" off of my "to do" list.
Bez Bezarra
10-16-07, 11:40
I knew this German guy who got a tick on his balls.
Its still better than having balls on your tick, eh?
Street Sleuth
10-17-07, 11:39
Smack: I am dying of laughter, imagining some tourist slapping a customs officer! I'd love to see it (from a distance....).
Racism: Way too complex a subject for this board. Race has a huge and diverse history in EE. Little known to your average Westerner, Russia has oodles of different ethnicities - they differentiate between 'Russian Citizen' and 'Russian ethnicity'. As I am in large part Jewish, this is an issue for me - but, I can say, for the most part, Jews are (currently) generally looked upon with respect in EE. Though not always...
As for the police hassling dark-skinned people - this isn't so much because the police are racist, but because they are corrupt. The police search for people with illegitimate paperwork, so they can extract a bribe - anyone who is obviously foreign is subject to 'search and seizure'....depending on the city, 50 to 100 grivens.....
Hard core racism has returned to Russia (if it ever dwindled), in the form of group beatings/killings of foreigners in St. Petersburg/Moscow but, to be fair, I haven't heard of any such events in Ukraine.
On a practical note: If I were black (per the American definition of black - Sub-Saharan African origin), I'd avoid EE altogether (though I'd also move North if I were living in Alabama....).
Street Sleuth
10-17-07, 11:43
One more quick note on racism:
Overall, I couldn't honestly say that Ukrainian behavior is anymore racist than Western behavior - however: political correctness has not made its way East.
The result: on a conversational level, you will hear much more racist comments, which would be considered unacceptable in the West. This doesn't necessarily mean that Westerners are less racist - it just means they've been trained to keep their mouths shut.
Steet may i add my 10cents worth or 2p's worth if you are better inclined.
I have lived full time here for about six months and have visited off and on for seven years.
I think Ukrainians are racist, to a point, but only to people who are outwardly different.
So Blacks, asians, and people with a middle easter look about them.
Without a doubt.
Perhaps its the unknown?
Smack: I am dying of laughter, imagining some tourist slapping a customs officer! I'd love to see it (from a distance....).
Racism: Way too complex a subject for this board. Race has a huge and diverse history in EE. Little known to your average Westerner, Russia has oodles of different ethnicities - they differentiate between 'Russian Citizen' and 'Russian ethnicity'. As I am in large part Jewish, this is an issue for me - but, I can say, for the most part, Jews are (currently) generally looked upon with respect in EE. Though not always...
As for the police hassling dark-skinned people - this isn't so much because the police are racist, but because they are corrupt. The police search for people with illegitimate paperwork, so they can extract a bribe - anyone who is obviously foreign is subject to 'search and seizure'....depending on the city, 50 to 100 grivens.....
Hard core racism has returned to Russia (if it ever dwindled), in the form of group beatings/killings of foreigners in St. Petersburg/Moscow but, to be fair, I haven't heard of any such events in Ukraine.
On a practical note: If I were black (per the American definition of black - Sub-Saharan African origin), I'd avoid EE altogether (though I'd also move North if I were living in Alabama....).
One more quick note on racism:
Overall, I couldn't honestly say that Ukrainian behavior is anymore racist than Western behavior - however: political correctness has not made its way East.
The result: on a conversational level, you will hear much more racist comments, which would be considered unacceptable in the West. This doesn't necessarily mean that Westerners are less racist - it just means they've been trained to keep their mouths shut. I agree with you here, WAY too complex to discuss on this type of board. It is obvious every one has different experiences with the subject and maybe no single person is 100% correct, It seems Qjump experienced some form of racism and maybe a few others did as well, and I am sorry for that. But a few events aren't enough in my opinion to paint a whole people with the same brush. But in the end I feel your overall perspective is very complete, it isn't simply excusing or condemning without any facts but in some way trying to really give some historical and cultural context while at the same time giving parallels with other countries in North America, Europe and Eastern Europe. I think if more posters were as thoughtful as you seem to be, we could actually discuss certain topics productively.
I think we all see what we choose to see and sometimes project onto others our own deep seeded prejudices and misconceptions, Ukrainians are great people overall, I think that is whats important to focus on. But as was said before, for anyone traveling ANYWHERE, Germany (skinheads), Russia (slava rossi nationalists), Israel (stern gang type racists and religious extremists) Sweden (racist hooligans), England (racist hooligans) USA (kkk, racists, rednecks, southerners, skinheads, police officers, government) Latin America (Castizo and Mestizo racist elite types), middle east (religious extremists) ETC. Wherever in the world you will deal with the same. Some places it is much more endemic, Ukraine is NOT one of those places.
Thanks again SS,
Great commentary,
Evil Z
DJ FourMoney
10-20-07, 12:55
Smack: I am dying of laughter, imagining some tourist slapping a customs officer! I'd love to see it (from a distance....).
Racism: Way too complex a subject for this board. Race has a huge and diverse history in EE. Little known to your average Westerner, Russia has oodles of different ethnicities - they differentiate between 'Russian Citizen' and 'Russian ethnicity'. As I am in large part Jewish, this is an issue for me - but, I can say, for the most part, Jews are (currently) generally looked upon with respect in EE. Though not always...
As for the police hassling dark-skinned people - this isn't so much because the police are racist, but because they are corrupt. The police search for people with illegitimate paperwork, so they can extract a bribe - anyone who is obviously foreign is subject to 'search and seizure'....depending on the city, 50 to 100 grivens.....
Hard core racism has returned to Russia (if it ever dwindled), in the form of group beatings/killings of foreigners in St. Petersburg/Moscow but, to be fair, I haven't heard of any such events in Ukraine.
On a practical note: If I were black (per the American definition of black - Sub-Saharan African origin), I'd avoid EE altogether (though I'd also move North if I were living in Alabama....).
Well being I was in Kiev for about week, walked around at night LATE and in parts of the city not often traveled by visitors and NOTHING HAPPEN.
I got plenty of eye contact from the women at RP, I was banging a local chick that found ME on the internet, not the other way around.
I'd say your comments are a bit overblown.
I also have a friend who's wife is Russian (he is Black) and he's been to Moscow and St Pete several times and NOTHING HAS HAPPEN.
As I often tell other "brothas" there are places in the US that are more UNSAFE to be in at night. Though you are not all victims of direct racial attacks in the US, they are forms of it (Black on Black crime, Latino on Black crime)
As for the "Dirty, Dirty" yes its ASS-backwards and I would move as well. But that still doesn't mean a person of color should fear for his life visiting Mother Russia...
Street Sleuth
10-20-07, 22:26
Well being I was in Kiev for about week, walked around at night LATE and in parts of the city not often traveled by visitors and NOTHING HAPPEN.
I got plenty of eye contact from the women at RP, I was banging a local chick that found ME on the internet, not the other way around.
I'd say your comments are a bit overblown.
I also have a friend who's wife is Russian (he is Black) and he's been to Moscow and St Pete several times and NOTHING HAS HAPPEN.
As I often tell other "brothas" there are places in the US that are more UNSAFE to be in at night. Though you are not all victims of direct racial attacks in the US, they are forms of it (Black on Black crime, Latino on Black crime)
As for the "Dirty, Dirty" yes its ASS-backwards and I would move as well. But that still doesn't mean a person of color should fear for his life visiting Mother Russia...
I went to New York once, for a weekend. I'm still alive. Therfore, no murders have ever occured in the city of New York.
Actually I started yelling to two women emploees in Dnipro airport when the flight was cancelled and they did not provide alternative and while at the begiining they tried to ignore me or make fun, at the end they both started crying. I have never seen an emploee crying before. So I guess persistence gives results.
As for the airport they ask for money you have on you because theoretically they want to find the person who sold drugs in Ukraine coming from abroad.
I guess it is stupid to think that such a person would carry his profits to the airport to get money out of Ukraine. But this provides them a legal reason to ask for cash exported. They can search bags etc.
It is funny that at borders you are faced with questions by officers like do you bring drugs in the baggage, probably thinking that a person actually doing this would confess of course here are my drugs.
And then they even do not search the baggage. The word no is enough for declaration. But they search for profits when getting out.I don't know about airports but I did have my baggage semi-searched at the Zahony-Chop border crossing between Hungary and Ukraine.
AColonizer
10-22-07, 16:21
Which pharmaceutical drugs have I to use to fuck without condom in Ukraine?
Which are the typical venereal diseases in Ukraine?
Colon,
I wouldn't worry about STDs here if you want to run around and screw without a condom. That is the least of your possible concerns.
I would first write my will and then make sure I have enough money for treating the HIV-AIDS virus.
Some people can't take their head out of their ass.
Colon,
I wouldn't worry about STDs here if you want to run around and screw without a condom. That is the least of your possible concerns.
I would first write my will and then make sure I have enough money for treating the HIV-AIDS virus.
Some people can't take their head out of their ass.
Agree totally... but the boy is strange... if you go on the truth on AIDS foruma you understand that what he thinks is wrong!!!!
Be aware "no condom no fuck" (one of the basic rules of this job :D) the second is use soap and hot water and wash you ASAP every nailing.... (not every evening) sometimes I take five-six showers a day! BBBJ risk is more limited much more!
IT
AColonizer
10-22-07, 21:57
I do not know pros doing that.... only ones are some Nigerians in Italy, and then they will not survive long... Mind that even if you have AIDS totay with modern anti-retrovirus drugs you might live a normal life for may be 10-20 years.
ITThank you IT. What about sperm drinking? You know it is usual with a lot of prostitutes, even if they often say the opposite. Do you think a girl, who has drunk sperm for years, is in good health without HIV? Perhaps there is no risk for the customer but what about the girl?
Somebody says there is a little risk for both in "oral without to completion", somebody else says an "oral without to completion" has the same risk of a "fuck without". .
At the beginning my first opinion was "always sex only with condom in every holes with known people" then I see prostitutes often drinking sperm and sometimes fucking without condom. Of course we can't verify every performance of every prostitute but we know prostitutes are cynical enterpreneurs of theirselves and their life is sold to money. Ukrainian prostitutes too. .
I don't mean every Ukrainian prostitutes fuck without condom but I mean the most prostitutes around the world don't worry to fuck without condom sometimes because they know that is their job.
I read a report that HIV is spreading faster in Ukraine than any other country in Europe.
PassinThrough
10-23-07, 07:11
Acolon,
There is a lot of information on STD's in other forums on this board. I would go read them and do a web search for more information. My info is a little dated but the only know case of mouth to mouth transmission of HIV was between two beople with bleeding gums so it transfered through the blood contact. Swallowing semen with HIV is risky but does not automatically give you HIV. You are at a higher risk if you have any open wounds in the mouth or stomach (ulcers). But why take the risk? You may already have HIV and not know it. If you have had sex with a prostitute you are at risk, even if you used a condom, but a much higher risk if you don't. Just put a glove on and keep both of you safe. If you absolutely need to do it without a condom and want to be safe then limit it to a hand or foot job, but make sure she has not open wounds :-)
PIT
DoctorOral
10-23-07, 09:05
Anyone knows a good broker for apartements in city center (near SAS and Hyatt) for short term rent. I need to change my agency for them being real idiots.
I am looking for clean and neat apartments, light, modern, good bathroom, clean, clean, clean!
Any help is appr.
Street Sleuth
10-23-07, 11:32
Alconizer,
As far as I know, saliva supposedly kills HIV. Though I still don't plan on drinking any sperm, just the same :).
Sex without condom highly un-recommended. Easier for girl to get HIV from guy that way, but can certainly happen in both directions.
Ukrainian pros are very often very strict about hygiene - showers before and after (though not sure how much this really helps....), covered BJ, sex w/condom only, no kissing, etc.
Kissing doesn't spread HIV - but Herpes is another story....
Anyone knows a good broker for apartements in city center (near SAS and Hyatt) for short term rent. I need to change my agency for them being real idiots.
I am looking for clean and neat apartments, light, modern, good bathroom, clean, clean, clean!
Any help is appr.
thias is my problem too therefore any advice is welcome!!! Furthermore in good location near to main street and no payment / Deposit in advance!!!
Thanks
Guys,
Get real now. This is Kiev, not New York, not London. And even there, and most other places, if they do not know you and you have not been a client, short term apartment rental agencies will more than likely ask for a deposit. That is nothing unusual. Unfortunately, here they do tend to be more predatory but that goes with the territory.
However, if you want modern, clean, spotless, neat, light, spotless and the best bathrooms, then I do suggest you stay at the Radisson, the Hyatt or one of the other top notch hotels.
If you want to pay for an apartment, then you will have to compromise on some or many issues while you are here.
This is Ukraine and not Kansas, Dorothy.
It sucks and so do many of the ladies you want to see. Live with it. That is the reason we are here.
First off, don't offer advice on STD's unless you are 101% sure. You can get HIV, Herp, Hep, HPV and a whole lot of interesting other things that start with an 'H' via mouth to mouth contact is any of it 100%? No. Is there a chance, yes. I'm not going to get into it. But if you want real information - not well, gee, I kinda remember hearing from a guy who said he was a doctor - or I remember from 8th Grade health ed - go to CDC.gov, the US Center for Disease and Control. Unless you are 101% sure stop spreading misinformation. It my comfort you and the rest of us involved in high risk sex but it really isn't helping anyone.
Apartment Agencies in Kiev are a huge case of YMMV. Most ask for a deposit of one night so that way if you don't show they aren't out the rent - seems fair to me and I never heard of anyone getting screwed over on this. There is no Silver Bullet agency in Kiev. No one is renting reasonably priced modern clean apartments in Kiev - even seasoned veterans (ie. ME) have a hard time finding something reasonable.
PassinThrough
10-23-07, 23:30
First off, don't offer advice on STD's unless you are 101% sure. You can get HIV, Herp, Hep, HPV and a whole lot of interesting other things that start with an 'H' via mouth to mouth contact is any of it 100%? No. Is there a chance, yes. I'm not going to get into it. But if you want real information - not well, gee, I kinda remember hearing from a guy who said he was a doctor - or I remember from 8th Grade health ed - go to CDC.gov, the US Center for Disease and Control. Unless you are 101% sure stop spreading misinformation. It my comfort you and the rest of us involved in high risk sex but it really isn't helping anyone.
Hence my first comment..."There is a lot of information on STD's in other forums on this board. I would go read them and do a web search for more information." and the ubiquitous comment "Always wear protection". What is really needed is a great site on the facts and the risks of different activities, I don't know of one. Sure the CDC has information but it is not straight forward or easy to find. There is lots of information but it is more targeted at medical professionals. Does anyone know of a site for laymen that actually shows what the risks of different activities are?
I personally am just happy to know that if someone asks about it there are a lot of members who jump in to say how bad an idea that is. It is nice to see responsible mongering :-)
PIT
DoctorOral
10-24-07, 07:28
Guys,
Get real now. This is Kiev, not New York, not London.Thank you for the bullshit and the nonadvice. Why did I ask. I am involved in the hotel market and know the venues. I had a clean, modern, cozy and safe apartment for the last year that I have been in kiev. Unfortunately, my broker closed since she moved out of kiev. Now, I wanted advise.
Forget about it, quickly. Since I am sick of the ***t
Street Sleuth
10-24-07, 11:12
First off, don't offer advice on STD's unless you are 101% sure. You can get HIV, Herp, Hep, HPV and a whole lot of interesting other things that start with an 'H' via mouth to mouth contact is any of it 100%? No. Is there a chance, yes. I'm not going to get into it. But if you want real information - not well, gee, I kinda remember hearing from a guy who said he was a doctor - or I remember from 8th Grade health ed - go to CDC.gov, the US Center for Disease and Control. Unless you are 101% sure stop spreading misinformation. It my comfort you and the rest of us involved in high risk sex but it really isn't helping anyone.
Apartment Agencies in Kiev are a huge case of YMMV. Most ask for a deposit of one night so that way if you don't show they aren't out the rent - seems fair to me and I never heard of anyone getting screwed over on this. There is no Silver Bullet agency in Kiev. No one is renting reasonably priced modern clean apartments in Kiev - even seasoned veterans (ie. ME) have a hard time finding something reasonable.
Relax. We're all aware of how to find reliable information on STD's. I really don't think anyone who is literate enough to find this board would go off of your or my advice regarding STD's.
Daily apartment rentals are abundant, although seemingly heavily booked up, in Kiev. They are a much better deal than hotels, and for around $100/ight you can have a very clean, central apartment. But I agree with CD on this - I don't know of any sure-fire agency either, and the 'deposit in advance', although it may seem like a scam, usually isn't.
AColonizer
10-28-07, 15:39
i thank you for this forum.
i have a lot of kiev girls' profiles, above all non-prostitutes, and i hope to blowjob a lot at least with one of those. .
i was surprised about the second time i visited the river palace, i saw a "9" beauty who had gone away alone, incredible! (i give a "10" only for girls taller than 1, 75 m)
what about patipa, i saw some interesting girls but i was afraid to look like silly because i don't speak russian.
what are the magic words to start a speech in ukrainian way with normal girls? and with p2p girls?
a strange thing about www.flirt.com. ua: i have some profiles of beautiful girls and these profiles have some pictures of these girls together their ugly female friends. i think beautiful girls usually don't need to find boys for their games and so i wonder what is the reason these beautiful girls (and not their ugly female friends) put their profiles in flirt?
Mumba Yumba
10-29-07, 03:21
I agree with you here, WAY too complex to discuss on this type of board. It is obvious every one has different experiences with the subject and maybe no single person is 100% correct, It seems Qjump experienced some form of racism and maybe a few others did as well, and I am sorry for that. But a few events aren't enough in my opinion to paint a whole people with the same brush. But in the end I feel your overall perspective is very complete, it isn't simply excusing or condemning without any facts but in some way trying to really give some historical and cultural context while at the same time giving parallels with other countries in North America, Europe and Eastern Europe. I think if more posters were as thoughtful as you seem to be, we could actually discuss certain topics productively.
I think we all see what we choose to see and sometimes project onto others our own deep seeded prejudices and misconceptions, Ukrainians are great people overall, I think that is whats important to focus on. But as was said before, for anyone traveling ANYWHERE, Germany (skinheads), Russia (slava rossi nationalists), Israel (stern gang type racists and religious extremists) Sweden (racist hooligans), England (racist hooligans) USA (kkk, racists, rednecks, southerners, skinheads, police officers, government) Latin America (Castizo and Mestizo racist elite types), middle east (religious extremists) ETC. Wherever in the world you will deal with the same. Some places it is much more endemic, Ukraine is NOT one of those places.
Thanks again SS,
Great commentary,
Evil ZI was born in Ukraine and by and large Ukrainians are OK but the character is described by the famous Ukranian proverb- "Moya hata skrayu, nichogo ne znayu". Meaning My house is at the edge of the village and I do not wish to know anything". "Don't bother me and I won't bother you" seems to be the norm.
Problems begin when people of undesirable ethnicities try and penetrate the soceity- renting apartments, trying to make friends, marry girls, get jobs and move up in soceity. This is when they hit a glass ceiling.
It again depends on where in Ukraine you are- Lviv is very racist and anti- Polish, Jewish and Russian. The Carpathian region is more open and so is the South.
The "I was there and nothing bad happened to me" is not a valid argument. I was in South Africa and nothing happened to me, either. It doesnot mean that it does not have the highest crime rate on earth. You need to live there, speak the language, try and do things, then you will see what I mean.
Mumba Yumba
10-29-07, 03:32
I appreciate your opinion but I hope you understand it is worth what I paid for it, and so is mine for that matter. I will make this my last post on the subject
I clearly stated, there is racism in Ukraine, just like in any country, but it is much less prevalent than in most other Western European, North American and Latin American countries. Am I getting my point across here? The racism you will find here is minimal compared to the kind of racism one might find in the USA, Latin America or many other Western European countries and much of it has to do with the forced integration during Socialism, I won't say Communism because that would be a mistake since true communism has never existed beyond the conceptual point, the rest of it goes back thousands of years and is part of our shared multi ethnic history and culture.
My second point is this, BTW, another point you seemed to have glossed over, There is a large majority of Ukrainians who are actually dark skinned, Crimean Tartars, Crimean Greeks, Mongol, Khazar, Bulgar, Hungar, Ottoman. Should I go on? If we discriminate dark skinned people we are discriminating a large portion of our own people. Ethnic minorities from varying ex Soviet Republics, Armenians and so on, so no matter how racist you think we are, we are not only multi cultural in actuality but also multi racial. It seems to me you don't really know or understand Ukrainian history, we were colonized by not only mongols but tartars as well, and it is a great misconception that Ukrainians are all light skinned people with blue eyes. That is personally one of the most attractive thing about Ukrainian women, some are straight out blonde haired blue eyed beauties, but so many other have this racial ambiguity that is quite attractive and mysterious. If you haven't noticed this I don't know what Ukraine you have visited.
I am Ukrainian and for you to generalize is quite patronizing, I do know fellow Ukrainians that do make comments but they are the minority. The Ukrainian culture has always historically been an accepting culture. I find it funny for foreigners to come here for a couple years and try to tell US what our country is and isn't. But you can think what you want, just as long as you understand I disagree. None of this matters, everyone has a different view and experience of Ukraine and that is alright, I am just making sure the forum members don't just read one jaded version of what Ukraine really is.
Regards,
Evil ZSo, EvilZ. Let me ask you this- do you consider Jews born in Ukraine as fellow Ukrainians? How many of your compatriates do? Is Isaak Goldstein a Ukranian to you?
Reiner Otto
10-29-07, 08:59
I thank you for this forum.
A strange thing about www.flirt.com. Ua: I have some profiles of beautiful girls and these profiles have some pictures of these girls together their ugly female friends. I think beautiful girls usually don't need to find boys for their games and so I wonder what is the reason these beautiful girls (and not their ugly female friends) put their profiles in flirt?flirt.com shares the same data base as www.singles.ru
I tried quite a few girls in Nikolaev (I am working there in the moment), but 99% are more or less scammers. Because I speak a little bit Russian, I could also contact this type. Only small success in real contact with girls >25. But they are looking into serious relations only.
Street Sleuth
10-29-07, 19:53
Racism,
Not to belabor the issue - just trying to post pertinent information.
Recently, a couple pretty nasty racially motivated attacks occured in Kiev - one involving 4 teenagers who attacked an Asian foreigner (I think Korean, but don't remember for certain). Report was the teenagers didn't know the foreigner, and had no contact/argument with them. Anyway, Asian was followed, then slashed to death by teens with broken bottles. So badly mangled, they couldn't be identified by close friends.
Sad to read this, but it happened.
Mumba Yumba
10-30-07, 01:04
Evil Z is not a Jew, a Black or a foreigner in Ukraine. So how would he know what is happening there and what it is like to be a non-white/non European foreigner there on a daily basis? What things people say to you, dirty looks, and attacks? Of course he is going to say that it is minimal. It is minimal to HIM because it is not happening to HIM.
It does not make it any better for people who are now dead and buried. Let him go to the cemetery and explain to dead Arabs, Asians, Blacks and Jews that the racism is minimal. Let him explain it to their families.
Let him get on any large Ukrainian forum online. It is replete with Jew boy this and Jew boy that, it is like the year is 1933 in Germany.
And Crimean Tatars are still looked down upon by many people ( not their pretty young ladies though). And the Greek ones are not so dark after all. Try being an Arab there.
http://blog.kievukraine.info/2007/06/un-human-rights-body-urges-probe-into.html
Street Sleuth
10-30-07, 16:47
Evil Z is not a Jew, a Black or a foreigner in Ukraine. So how would he know what is happening there and what it is like to be a non-white/non European foreigner there on a daily basis? What things people say to you, dirty looks, and attacks? Of course he is going to say that it is minimal. It is minimal to HIM because it is not happening to HIM.
It does not make it any better for people who are now dead and buried. Let him go to the cemetery and explain to dead Arabs, Asians, Blacks and Jews that the racism is minimal. Let him explain it to their families.
Let him get on any large Ukrainian forum online. It is replete with Jew boy this and Jew boy that, it is like the year is 1933 in Germany.
And Crimean Tatars are still looked down upon by many people ( not their pretty young ladies though). And the Greek ones are not so dark after all. Try being an Arab there.
http://blog.kievukraine.info/2007/06/un-human-rights-body-urges-probe-into.html
Mumba - being half Jewish, and usually visibly recognized as Jewish in these parts, I can empathize with where you are coming from.
I'd have oodles more to say on the subject - I just don't think this is the place to do it. If we start, there will be no end in sight (until Jackson comes and deletes our posts....).
On the mongering side: When it comes to the pros, I suspect money trumps ethnicity, despite what the working girls' views may otherwise be....
I have already shared my views on this subject and appreciate everyone elses views as well, but you are correct sleuth, this isn't the forum to discuss this, because the argument will be endless, because everyones experience will be different. I am sorry you were treated as a leper in Ukraine mumba, but maybe you shouldn't come on the ISG to talk about racism in Kiev, this is a sex site and your three and only posts where on something completely off topic, makes me wonder what your other screen name might be ;).
And you are correct SS, what is important is, " will the girls here still fuck a Jew or Arab, and the facts are there, " American in Ukraine ", a young arab student in Ukraine is getting boatloads of pussy, he has many friends here, speaks the language and seems to be still alive. So it isn't exactly 1930's Germany, but maybe for some people, they feel something different, but just understand, everyones experience is different.
But yes, what matters most here is money, and with it you can get laid, even you mumba.
Regards,
EZ
Mumba - being half Jewish, and usually visibly recognized as Jewish in these parts, I can empathize with where you are coming from.
I'd have oodles more to say on the subject - I just don't think this is the place to do it. If we start, there will be no end in sight (until Jackson comes and deletes our posts....).
On the mongering side: When it comes to the pros, I suspect money trumps ethnicity, despite what the working girls' views may otherwise be....
1) Never, ever get serious about a woman from the former USSR.
2) Every single word coming out of her mouth is an absolute lie.
3) Show any sign of weakness and you will be eaten alive.Thay smell weakness and view it as you being less than a man should be.Do not be too nice.Do not put up with any crap,bullshit,tricks, games,manipulation, ors scamming whatsoever.If you lose any girl because of it, you are fortunate!!
4) Keep a rotating list of girls,updating constantly.That way, you have a list, just as she does.
5) Try not to be the sponsor, provider, meal ticket of the day that she later dumps.
6) Do not spend even $1 on the first date, as chances are good you will ne
ver see her again
WHAT THEY ARE THINKING:
1) Foreign men are wallets with legs
2) Heart for one, pussy for everyone
3) Take advantage of every single opportunity to the fullest extent possible
4) We do not need foreigners.they are more trouble than they are worth.They hve nothing to offer that our ukrainian men cannot offer.
5) However, you can use foreigners to either practice english, have a short and new experience, or as a sponsor/meal ticket/provider for a day or two.
And, take as many of your friends as possible along for the ride.
6) Foreigners are all here to have sex with you or try to meet you and , within a few days, take you to some strange foreign country to be a sex slave.
7) Encounters with foreigners are strange and very infrequent occurences, but dont worry.If you ignore them , they will go away
Guys: golden days are over. First they liked us, then they ignored us. Now they hate us.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
anyone knows a good broker for apartements in city center (near sas and hyatt) for short term rent. i need to change my agency for them being real idiots.
i am looking for clean and neat apartments, light, modern, good bathroom, clean, clean, clean!
any help is appr.i can tell you to just stay away from this agency for renting an apartment:
http://visioneve.org/accomodation/index.html
my buddy is over there now. he rented an apartment from them, they said it was rennovated, had satellite tv, and had broadband internet included. when he arrived, he said it was not rennovated, had no satellite tv or broadband, and had no hot water (only lukewarm). he complained, the manager katya said that he could go find another apartment and she would refund him the balance of the money he paid ($900). he found another apartment and moved to it, but then the manager told him she would not give him any refund. he was out $900. when he complained more, she said that she would have the maid write and sign a statement that he tried to fuck her, she said she would write one as well, she would give them to the police, and he would be arrested at the airport when he was leaving. of course this is complete bullshit.
just stay away from this apartment agency, they are crooks.
====================================================
greetings everyone,
on 01-26-08 i received the following email from "tony@ukraineadventures.com" regarding the above report.
dear sir / madam,
this post, submitted by riggo is totally false and i as a partner in the business, visioneve, would like to politely ask you to kindly remove it. all comments made are totally false, are slanderous and are a defamation of character. i do know the situation which arose to this and the gentleman mentioned as the "poor hard done by man" name is richard jodan who voluntarily moved out of his apartment. this is sour grapes on his behalf for something our company did nothing wrong. i can show you all the correspondence between us, should you wish to see it. on discovering this thread on google i have now written to mr jodan informing him that i will be taking legal action against him if this very false thread is not removed from your forum about our company. i do not want to cause mr jodan problems so i hope this thread will be removed to avoid legal action against him or his friends who have posted it.
please feel free to contact me if you would like to discuss this further
my name is tony monk
my email address is tony@ukraineadventures.com
my phone number in the uk is +44 1256 882339
unlike people who hide behind handles i give my name and contact details.
your kind assistance would be gratefully appreciated. i look forward to hearing back from you.
kind regards,
tonythanks,
jackson
1) Never, ever get serious about a woman from the former USSR
And what about American girls, they are all bitches too? Maybe you could entice us what part of the world does one go to meet the right kind of girl.
And what about American girls, they are all bitches too? Maybe you could entice us what part of the world does one go to meet the right kind of girl.I can personally say that some soviet block women can be the coldest hearted scammers I have ever met. At the same time, I have met some nice Russian woman who have some values. I find there seems to be more of what I would say are good women in the smaller towns, but that seems to be the case in any part of the world. Grandmother always told me to watch out for those Big City Women. ;-)
Isn't putting a label on one large group of people the same prejudice some are crying about concerning color or religion?
AColonizer
11-18-07, 12:35
Nolies' rules are exceptional and true!
I think this is the same trouble with girls in all over the world. And this is the nowadays trouble called "modernity" (sorry for my english).
I think I found a solution about this trouble: when we discover a girl whom we like very much (for me, it is important original charme and life experience) then we must do everything (everything! ) to bring her with us: this is a raw but biological behaviour between males and females. Then we must have all kind of sex with her as much as we can. After that, she falls in love with us very probably.
No good boys have successed, females are a specialised specie of parassites, love is a cruel war where there are alives or deads only.
[QUOTE=Nolies]1) Never, ever get serious about a woman from the former USSR.
2) Every single word coming out of her mouth is an absolute lie.
3) Show any sign of weakness and you will be eaten alive.Thay smell weakness and view it as you being less than a man should be.Do not be too nice.Do not put up with any crap,bullshit,tricks, games,manipulation, ors scamming whatsoever.If you lose any girl because of it, you are fortunate!!
LifeSavour
11-18-07, 13:50
If any of you are staying in UA longer than your 90 days there is a new Law (sometimes) enforced stating that this 90 day free one can not be 'back-to-back' (only 1 per 180 days).
This weekend I took the train to Odessa, then a marchutka to the Moldovian border. Never crossed it AND it was only $50 to the guard and 15 minutes later I had the new stamp and another 90 days.
Gotta luv it. (when it works in your favor). BRIBES!
LS Guy
Losers and scammer tend to attract losers and scammers. If you are 45+ and looking to fuck 100 18-20 year olds (for free)during your two week vacation or you plan on spending you retirement in the FSU trying to fuck 18-20's for free you are going to find a very tough time of it. 'nuff said.
I can't believe the editor added his useless tag to the end of this hate message.
1) Never, ever get serious about a woman from the former USSR.
Guys: golden days are over. First they liked us, then they ignored us. Now they hate us.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Nolies is exaggerating. If you do not think slavic girls are worth, why bother travelling to meet them? Visit some other western country and report the results.
Explorer69
11-19-07, 01:32
I can tell you to just stay away from this agency for renting an apartment:
http://visioneve.org/accomodation/index.html
My buddy is over there now. He rented an apartment from them, they said it was rennovated, had satellite TV, and had broadband internet included. When he arrived, he said it was not rennovated, had no satellite TV or broadband, and had no hot water (only lukewarm). He complained, the manager Katya said that he could go find another apartment and she would refund him the balance of the money he paid ($900). He found another apartment and moved to it, but then the manager told him she would not give him any refund. He was out $900. When he complained more, she said that she would have the maid write and sign a statement that he tried to fuck her, she said she would write one as well, she would give them to the police, and he would be arrested at the airport when he was leaving. Of course this is complete bullshit.
Just stay away from this apartment agency, they are crooks.I have over the years used different agencies for apartments. recently I find this to be excellent: http://www.kievapts.com/
1) Never, ever get serious about a woman from the former USSR.
2) Every single word coming out of her mouth is an absolute lie.
3) Show any sign of weakness and you will be eaten alive. Thay smell weakness and view it as you being less than a man should be. Do not be too nice. Do not put up with any crap, bullshit, tricks, games, manipulation, ors scamming whatsoever. If you lose any girl because of it, you are fortunate!
4) Keep a rotating list of girls, updating constantly. That way, you have a list, just as she does.
5) Try not to be the sponsor, provider, meal ticket of the day that she later dumps.
6) Do not spend even $1 on the first date, as chances are good you will ne ver see her again
WHAT THEY ARE THINKING:
1) Foreign men are wallets with legs
2) Heart for one, pussy for everyone
3) Take advantage of every single opportunity to the fullest extent possible
4) We do not need foreigners. They are more trouble than they are worth. They hve nothing to offer that our ukrainian men cannot offer.
5) However, you can use foreigners to either practice english, have a short and new experience, or as a sponsor/meal ticket/provider for a day or two.
And, take as many of your friends as possible along for the ride.
6) Foreigners are all here to have sex with you or try to meet you and, within a few days, take you to some strange foreign country to be a sex slave.
7) Encounters with foreigners are strange and very infrequent occurences, but don't worry. If you ignore them, they will go away
Guys: golden days are over. First they liked us, then they ignored us. Now they hate us.
1. Many people get so serious as to marry these girls. In fact they long for marrying a slavic beauty.
2. O. K. They lie sometimes, but are there girls who do not do the same? It is your duty to find out what is actually true of what they say.This is the game. Do you always tell the truth as a man?
3. All the women smell weakness. But you have to appear vulnerable to be attractive. Man, it is part of the game. What do you expect? You will flash some cash and they will start licking you? You have to convey some personality as well.
All the women do tricks, games, tests, are not stable or reliable. Western women play far more games and more advanced games than slavic women who are more primitive and more emotional.
4. Rotating girls is a natural thing. Nobody in EE avoids that.
5. You have to be the sponsor. In this culture the man pays for everything. He is supposed to pay for the restaurant, the hotel, the club even for presents if needed. No feminism in Ukraine. Or do you prefer feminism?
6. If she dates you once, she is interested in you and you have good chances to bed her in the next date. What are you talking about? If you do not pay for the date and leave her pay, she will never answer your call again. It is not worth travelling to meet her then. Just pay for plane tickets, hotels and taxis and not paying for date at all, you will get a nice sightview of the city.
What are they thinking:
1. Foreign men are successful men with lots of money who are reliable and can offer a lot.
2. How to be in love with somebody and love somebody else.
3. They offer a lot and expect a lot. (slavic concept of generosity).
4. We are lucky that foreigners visit Ukraine and so many successfull marriages and relationships take place. Ukrainian girls are the best.
5. You can use foreigners as much as you want if you open your legs to them. They are pussy slaves. Take many firnds with you to make foreigner more happy and make more people benefited from his presence.
6. Foreigners are mostly serious, not as spoiled as ukrainian men who just want to sleep with you and then leave you for somebody else.
7. Encounters with strange or unusually looking foreigners are strange. Encounters with normal and good looking, charming foreigners are welcome. Pick up the chance.
Guys golden days are over. Now there are silver days. First they opened their legs after three hours, then after seven hours, now after two or three dates. It is embarassing to wait for the second or third date.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
AColonizer
11-19-07, 10:23
This is the famous unificated Nolies-Hecker law on female universe.
Orange Leo
11-19-07, 14:34
1. Many people get so serious as to marry these girls. In fact they long for marrying a slavic beauty.
5. You have to be the sponsor. In this culture the man pays for everything. He is supposed to pay for the restaurant, the hotel, the club even for presents if needed. No feminism in Ukraine. Or do you prefer feminism?
1. Foreign men are successful men with lots of money who are reliable and can offer a lot.
3. They offer a lot and expect a lot. (slavic concept of generosity).
4. We are lucky that foreigners visit Ukraine and so many successfull marriages and relationships take place. Ukrainian girls are the best.In souther part of ukraine some Girls exspect you to be a sponser, mainly girls from Odessa and Nikolaev.
I have a Spanish girlfriend who work in Lugansk and Kiev, She and I can confirm that a seriously Ukraine girls work and have same thinking as Skandinavian.
A worker at Frence embassy in Kiev told me. 80 percent is divorce before the 5th year of marrige.
As a second hand informations I have been told between USA men and Ukraine woman is the divorce is a lot higher.
Wise, go back and re read my message, s l o w l y this time, you might understand it the 2nd time around.
Orange and the rest - if you want to start dating very far out of your age group expect to be a walking wallet or expect it to end badly 8 times out of 10. It's always been that way. The past vs the present is that the girls have more choices - rich Russians and Ukrainian and more younger foreigners (working professionals). So you older fuckers are just finding it a lot harder to get your dick wet on the cheap. Either be willing to pony up the $ or start hitting the gym hard.
Doctor_Skank
11-20-07, 08:27
The past vs the present is that the girls have more choices - rich Russians and Ukrainian and more younger foreigners (working professionals). So you older fuckers are just finding it a lot harder to get your dick wet on the cheap. Either be willing to pony up the $ or start hitting the gym hard.
Quoted for truth 1.
This goes for us all, even the "someday will be an old fucker" like me. Keep in shape, it'll improve your scoring ration considerably. Ukrainian girls are thankfully more accepting of guys that have gone soft in the middle than perhaps other girls are, but they still prefer guys in good shape.
Guys golden days are over. Now there are silver days. First they opened their legs after three hours, then after seven hours, now after two or three dates. It is embarassing to wait for the second or third date.
Quoted for truth 2.
All things change with time, but some things stay the same. There is still much pussy to be had in Ukraine and it is still easier there than just about any other place on the planet. So less whining and more action.
LifeSavour
11-26-07, 09:53
Lest WE forget!
Awhile back I had a birthday and was meeting a lady friend (friend only), she came with a 'shitty' looking bunch of flowers and apology for having to leave almost immediately.
So I decide to head to this bar close to my home for a beer. In I walk and immediately spot Yulia the big titted barwoman. 21, that has never given me much more than privet! She really is a stunner and I figured an 'old fart' like me had no chance (she has zero english). So I simply say these (flowers) are for you! And order my pivko. Next thing I know they are in a vase with water and sitting in a prominant spot. Next I find Yulia taking a break and coming to my side of the bar and trying to talk with me. Big smile. And showing her customary 'big tits'.
No, I didn't score. Will I? Doubt it. BUT, it did REMIND me of the importance of even the smallest GESTURE and how it is perceived by these ladies. I mean these flowers were UGLY!
My 2 cents worth!
LS Guy
Bez Bezarra
11-27-07, 03:49
Don't be paranoid man. You're more than welcome to say fuck and bastard.
You just can't say wh0re, 5lut, and b1tch. :)
Who needs to anyway, when blyad, shalava, and suka are perfectly acceptable :o
Felix Nordic
11-28-07, 01:10
The general substitute for charm is being young and handsome, famous or rich, or why do you think Bill managed to shag Monica Lewinsky? (sorry Bill but you only get 2 out of 4, but you did score)
Nuff said!
In few areas is it so rewarding to be a bit older than in the FSU. A lot of girls still want the man to be around 10 years older, and that goes for girls of 18-30. A lot of these girls will gladly accept a guy 15-20 years older IF he is what they look for. Especially for short term relations and fun.
A lot of truth expressed by a lot of guys here from No lies to Cruiser. In the end its up to your personal level and what vibes that comes out of a meeting with that sultry stunner. One need to stick to what works well from a personal perspective and try to develop that as good as one can. Im not Brad Pit but I occasionally can attract even 18 year old girls. One might wonder how that is possible? I'd say its charm and experience and the knowledge how to treat a girl and read her signals. Now, that might be a trickier task than developing the windows 2000, but with multiple chances there is a rather big possibility for success, especially in EE. I know I will get dismissed, spitted at in some cases but I will also in the end bring home a few young girls to the warm bed.
And NO, I cant do that because Im rich, famous and handsome. I have to live on my personality. Thats how the majority of the girls in most countries regard me. In the west that gives me few chances, but in the EE it goes a lot better. If you dont have what it takes for easy scores you have to adopt and learn or stick to pros, with all the cons and pros of that. Im not that great hunter but I have some limted success from time to time. Its a learning process and it goes better and better, but slowly.
Cheers and happy hunting!
Felix
Doctor_Skank
11-28-07, 19:15
You just can't say wh0re, 5lut, and b1tch. :)
What do you mean I can't say *****, **** and *****?
***** **** and *****!!!!
You are a cheap-azz mental mothafcuker. It's people like you who give Asians a bad reputation. Just because a woman fcuks you for money doesn't mean you need to degrade them further. Especially coming from someone who thinks $100-$200 is a lot of money for sex. Most people in First World countries earn that in a day, some in just a few hours, if not minutes. Go backpack yourself somewhere else, there's no need for CIA World book statistics here. Oh and if you've read this far already, the answer to your question is no.
Does Ukraine have cheap pussy? Cuz on the other reports some guys said that an hour or two of sex cost $100-$200! No way that women in a third world dump like Ukraine can command that much. You can get them cheaper in Germany! FYI, Ukraine has a nominal GDP per capita of only $2, 000 USD. If sex cost that much in Ukraine, then how would average Ukrainian guys afford it? ! Use your brain. These sound like rip-off tourist prices. I can get pussy for less than that with good looking girls in the USA. No way sex costs that much in Ukraine. What if I went to a McDonalds or a hotel and waved $20 in front of a girl's face? I think if I do it enough I could get a girl to take it. Maybe 1 time out of 5 tries? I'm looking for some options here. I want to screw a European girl cuz I've never done it in my life. Only Asian girls.
Cheap meat
Bez Bezarra
12-06-07, 13:49
I want to get pussy for low cost in Ukraine.
if I went to McDonalds and wave $20 in girl's face I could get a girl to take it.
I want a Euro girl cuz I've done Only Asian girls.
You should go wave $20 in EVERY girl's face. This is the BEST plan and you are just like a genious to think this great idea. Ukraine is the best country for this money waving. You will have all the most beautiful girls making a que to have sex with you, they will be fighting each other over your $20, so be careful. Just tell them to wait patient while you fuck the best ones first.
Also, you should tell them that its really for 2 girls to split the $20, for each one to get $10 if they do a lesbi-show for you. They will really be impressed with this offer, and they will all beg to be your first euro sex experience.
Right on "cheap meat". You seem to be the only one with some sense in this pussy whipped ukraine forum.
All these other members have lost their sense of perspective because they are extremeley desperate. They are older, and age is your Number 1 enemy in Western europe and the USA. These are youth.oriented societies where a middle aged man has ZERO chances to get young pussy, unless he is VERY rich or famous.
So, they come to East europe like a man in the desert rushes to the nearest water well!
They are so desperate, young- pussy hungry, that they pay any amount, no matter how ridiculously high it is!
And they ignore all Economic fundamentals like the fact that Ukraine is a third world country with small per capita income. They pay TOP european or american prices and thay feel fortunate and lucky to do so.
Bunch of idiots that make it hard for the rest of us that want to keep East europe a low-cost pussy paradise.
Fuck off and go back to London, Zurich and New York and feel free to empty your bank accounts there!
You need to know where to look, I live in a provicial city in far east Ukraine, in some of the smaller communites, one can find an hourly rate of like $15, fair quality.
My advice is to search outside the regional centers, in cities of 50, 000 to 150, 000 inhabitants, search out the saunas, discos, (security guards in discos know all the girls who are p4p) and taxi drivers, or just try and communicate with the younger, local guys. Whatever you do, I really wouldn't wave a 20 spot in front of their face, not a good idea.
Does Ukraine have cheap pussy? Cuz on the other reports some guys said that an hour or two of sex cost $100-$200! No way that women in a third world dump like Ukraine can command that much. You can get them cheaper in Germany! FYI, Ukraine has a nominal GDP per capita of only $2, 000 USD. If sex cost that much in Ukraine, then how would average Ukrainian guys afford it? ! Use your brain. These sound like rip-off tourist prices. I can get pussy for less than that with good looking girls in the USA. No way sex costs that much in Ukraine. What if I went to a McDonalds or a hotel and waved $20 in front of a girl's face? I think if I do it enough I could get a girl to take it. Maybe 1 time out of 5 tries? I'm looking for some options here. I want to screw a European girl cuz I've never done it in my life. Only Asian girls.
Cheap meat
But some of you guys need to get checked out. I did not say the prices in ukraine were fair. I think they are inflated, which is why I would not go around paying so much if at all. You people need to understand that not everyone is pussy whipped just because you are. Maybe you can not understand the rational of people who spend $1000 at a strip club where there is no sex, when they can get sex for a quality escort at less than half that amount in a western country. When you have the dough and free-frequent access to sexual pleasure, it is no longer such a huge priority.
I think cheap meat is nothing short of an idiot because of the way he views women. Anyone who thinks it is socially acceptable to just wave currency in front of a girl in an attempt to get her to go home with him is lacking in social skills. This is probably why he and some of you are always paying for pussy. And don't argue the point that all girls are prostitutes because they get your money one way or another. There's plenty of girls I know and have slept with that fuck after one or two drinks that I buy, when they have plenty of alcohol at their own place. And no I didn't take them out to dinner, buy them gifts, or promise them a visa to heaven, nor do I plan to.
Nolies, don't complain because you don't have the financial means. Be a man and go earn some respect for yourself. I may be young and rich, but I know plenty of older and less well-off guys, especially in the US and UK, who get just as much if not more action.
And lastly, don't argue with me about the economics of sex and prostitution. It's not the old foreigners that drive up the prices in ukraine. Perhaps in RP, but that is just but a small speck of sand in your desert. It's the fact that there are billionaires and plenty of millionaries in ukraine that have harems of woman at their call due to their bankroll and spending habits. They have no need to be on forums like this to learn things. Its their country, their culture, and their game. You/we/all of us are just dabbling in it.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Right on "cheap meat". You seem to be the only one with some sense in this pussy whipped ukraine forum.
All these other members have lost their sense of perspective because they are extremeley desperate. They are older, and age is your Number 1 enemy in Western europe and the USA. These are youth. Oriented societies where a middle aged man has ZERO chances to get young pussy, unless he is VERY rich or famous.
So, they come to East europe like a man in the desert rushes to the nearest water well!
They are so desperate, young- pussy hungry, that they pay any amount, no matter how ridiculously high it is!
And they ignore all Economic fundamentals like the fact that Ukraine is a third world country with small per capita income. They pay TOP european or american prices and thay feel fortunate and lucky to do so.
Bunch of idiots that make it hard for the rest of us that want to keep East europe a low-cost pussy paradise.
Fuck off and go back to London, Zurich and New York and feel free to empty your bank accounts there! I think Nolies is very direspectful to other members of forum. Yes many spend much more money than they should to but there are many factors to take into account like the cunning behaviour of ukrainian girls, the cities environment, the general hardness of living in province and the huge difference between rich and poor people with no middle class between them. All these factors make the situation and the prices for somebody who has not been in Ukraine impossible to understand.
If you want to live a high life as aforeigner, you have to spend the amount of money the rich Ukrainians pay (there is a lot of them) because the prices are fixed to them since there is no middle class. No foreigner wants to live like a poor ukrainian when he comes for vacation.
As for the age factor, it is not the only or the most important one. Most people who travel to Ukraine do so in my opinion to simply increase their chances of bedding hot women. There are some chances in the West determined by genes of population, competition, offer and demand and some very different, much higher chances in Ukraine which are determined by the same factors which are much more favourable in the latter.
It is a matter of choice. If somebody wants to spend 2000$ where will he get better results? In London, in Berlin, in Prague or in Kiev? This is always in the mind of monger travelers. They compare the chances and opportunities in each case. The best place to go does not always remain the same. Now maybe Kiev but if the prices continue to go up, it may become Prague, but if from there all the valuable girls flow to Germany, it may become Berlin in some years. So to do an approach simply based on age of mongers is rather simplificating and misleading.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Nolies and Cheap Meat are so over the top they might be trolls or at the very least so on the fringe the should simply be ignored.
Nolies falls into the old fucker classification, so I have no idea why he is talking about old guys coming to the FSU in a derogatory manner.
The best course of action Cheap Meat could take is to start waving a $20 bill in the face of local girls at a McD. Being Asian and doing that will result in a very painful lesson for him at the hands of the local men.
It's not the older sexpats driving up the prices, they are notoriously cheap. It's the influx of foreign professionals (like Brandon88 :P) and well off Ukrainian/Russians. Kiev/Ukraine will not become like Prague or Berlin. The Ukrainian economy lives and dies by the petro market and corruption. Neither can be substained on a long term basis. Unless a visionary stateman some how comes to power in the Ukraine they are in for a very hard bust cycle shortly.
Kiev will NOT become like Prague or Berlin? Of course NOT. It already has surpassed them many times in prices! It already has surpassed the champion of most expensive cities: TOKYO.
Here is a third world city who wants to beat Monte Carlo in prices!
And expats who are willing to go there and pay those insane prices are contributing to the madness!
Come on guys, there is pussy everywhere in this lovely planet. Go somewhere reasonable!
Don't let those ukrainian *****s and landlords laugh all the way to the bank!
AColonizer
12-11-07, 09:53
Dear timmy21,
Please, activate your PM in this forum because I can't send a private message to you or you try to send your email address to my email box. Thank you
You need to know where to look, I live in a provicial city in far east Ukraine, in some of the smaller communites, one can find an hourly rate of like $15, fair quality.
My advice is to search outside the regional centers, in cities of 50, 000 to 150, 000 inhabitants, search out the saunas, discos, (security guards in discos know all the girls who are p4p) and taxi drivers, or just try and communicate with the younger, local guys. Whatever you do, I really wouldn't wave a 20 spot in front of their face, not a good idea.===============================================
Greetings Acolonizer,
It appears from your post that you don't quite understand the Forum's Private Message service.
To use the Forum's Private Message service, both you and the Forum Member you are trying to contact must be a subscriber or a Senor Member.
For more information, please read: http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-subscriptions.php?
Jackson
Kiev will NOT become like Prague or Berlin? Of course NOT. It already has surpassed them many times in prices! It already has surpassed the champion of most expensive cities: TOKYO.
Here is a third world city who wants to beat Monte Carlo in prices!
And expats who are willing to go there and pay those insane prices are contributing to the madness!
Come on guys, there is pussy everywhere in this lovely planet. Go somewhere reasonable!
Don't let those ukrainian *****s and landlords laugh all the way to the bank!Yes, it has surpassed these cities and the reason is simple. There are more millionaires living in Kiev than in Prague and Berlin together. The rich form the prices in Ukraine. The point is do you prefer to live 3 days as a millionaire in Kiev or one week as a middle class person in Czech Republic or Germany?
Now, the rankings of Kyiv, Prague, and Berlin may be arguable in today's rampant inflation in the capital cities of the FSU, including Kyiv. However, don't even think about saying that Kyiv is on the same level as Moscow, London, New York, and Tokyo, which have consistently been the most expensive cities in the world to live, work, and play in.
If you have time, you should educate yourself. These stats may impress the next Ukrainian girl you meet that thinks Kyiv is top dollar/pound/euro/yen in the world. Also, please refrain from posting. It'll help prevent making yourself sound like the idiot you obviously are.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/15/pf/most_expensive_cities/
http://www.mercer.com/costofliving
http://www.citymayors.com/economics/expensive_cities2.html
http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html
http://www.citymayors.com/features/cost_survey.html
I didn't go out of my way to look this up. I know several people who work for Mercer and I was emailed this research report because I like to travel and as a complimentary token from a friend. This is just the quick online table listing of cities and not the full report, which you have to buy. My guess is you'd be too cheap to spend your precious coins on educational material anyway.
Banker24,
Who do you think is an idiot trying to impress us with these statistics and that stupid pseudo?
Who cares if you are a banker at 24? You are still an incompetent, consided, idotic, stupid moron. Yes, I still insist on the fact that Kyev is unreasonably expensive! And I don't care about all the zillionaires living there. They were ALL forming lines outside empty- shelled shops to get toilet paper (that wasnt always available) 15 years ago! They all forgot how they would have licked the shoe soles of foreigners to even be able to see what a dollar note looked like!
And now, *****s that used to give away pussy for a pair of pantyhoses want 300 $ a minute. Landlords that got their stinky appartment for FREE during communist times want 2000$ a month. And a bowl of borsh costs 2 days worth of ukrainian salary.
Mongers, please, boycott this joke of a country. Let them find out how life is without a single foreigner to scam, cheat, ripoff, lie to.
They only raise their prices to these insane levels because they see that there is a demand for their pussies from sex-starved westerners.
Go to Thailand, Cambodia, or Colombia. Where the population doesnt want to get rich at your expense!
Now, the rankings of Kyiv, Prague, and Berlin may be arguable in today's rampant inflation in the capital cities of the FSU, including Kyiv. However, don't even think about saying that Kyiv is on the same level as Moscow, London, New York, and Tokyo, which have consistently been the most expensive cities in the world to live, work, and play in.
If you have time, you should educate yourself. These stats may impress the next Ukrainian girl you meet that thinks Kyiv is top dollar/pound/euro/yen in the world. Also, please refrain from posting. It'll help prevent making yourself sound like the idiot you obviously are.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/15/pf/most_expensive_cities/
http://www.mercer.com/costofliving
http://www.citymayors.com/economics/expensive_cities2.html
http://www.citymayors.com/economics/richest_cities.html
http://www.citymayors.com/features/cost_survey.html
I didn't go out of my way to look this up. I know several people who work for Mercer and I was emailed this research report because I like to travel and as a complimentary token from a friend. This is just the quick online table listing of cities and not the full report, which you have to buy. My guess is you'd be too cheap to spend your precious coins on educational material anyway.Who is interested in comparing Kiev to Tokyo or London? Here we refered to the difference between Kiev, Prague and Berlin from monger's perspective. If you get such a research on the subject, inform us as well, but I doubt very much a scientist will undertake such a research.
Of course you cannot find such comparisons out there because the subject ineterests us mongers and not real estate speculators or any other in finance sector.
Nolies,
As much as you would like me to, I am not trying to impress you or anyone else here. I believe one facet of this forum is to share travel information, which is what I was doing with the city reports. I'm also pretty good at discrediting misinformation and hopeless fools such as yourself.
Your insults are pretty lame and lack credit. Please go back to school and learn how to spell before you come post again. You also incorrectly assumed the 24 in my name represents age. I can say that I've never had to worry about being old, not for another few decades. In Casino Royale fashion, your take on my age only implies that you are worried about your own aging physical and mental capacity compared to younger foreigners and locals. I also assume that by this point, you have recognized reality and no longer dream of striking any measure of great financial success which would aid in your quest for girls. This puts you in a dilemma. You see, eastern european girls are quite traditional when compared with their hot western counterparts. They either want love and stability, or just stability in the form of money. I do not think you will be able to offer them either, or at least above the market premium. You would honestly have better luck in a more westernized country, though you would have to return to reality, where your chances of meeting a young successful lady who likes unsuccessful middle age burnouts are pretty much zero.
As for Ukraine, the country folk may have been poor in the recent past, but that doesn't mean they didn't live a happy, less cluttered life with their families. This is what makes their culture prideful and strong - that they got through those hardships together as a newly independent country. It's just too bad they didn't take the high road in terms of education and politics.
I'm pretty fortunate to be on the fast track and the earnings in finance has never been better. Search up hedge funds, private equity, and investment banking, then you'll know more about me. In less WSJ terms, I am a young professional who has all the means and the style to hit up girls anywhere. I use this forum only as a means to learn about culture, fair market pricing, locations, glean experience, and what not to do. As a side note, there is nothing you can do about Ukraine's inflated market prices, so give it a rest.
Advice - don't alienate yourself from others on this site. Not everyone is sex-starved and by mentioning it only focuses the attention on you and makes you the more probable sex-starved creep.
This is the last I'll direct anything towards you, you're simply a waste of time and space. If I was an asshole, I would say to go behind your brick and mortar and shoot yourself. However, I am quite the nice guy and believe there may just be the slightest hope for you to turn out alright, just none when it comes to dating gorgeous young woman.
Banker24,
Who do you think is an idiot trying to impress us with these statistics and that stupid pseudo?
Who cares if you are a banker at 24? You are still an incompetent, consided, idotic, stupid moron. Yes, I still insist on the fact that Kyev is unreasonably expensive! And I don't care about all the zillionaires living there. They were ALL forming lines outside empty- shelled shops to get toilet paper (that wasnt always available) 15 years ago! They all forgot how they would have licked the shoe soles of foreigners to even be able to see what a dollar note looked like!
And now, *****s that used to give away pussy for a pair of pantyhoses want 300 $ a minute. Landlords that got their stinky appartment for FREE during communist times want 2000$ a month. And a bowl of borsh costs 2 days worth of ukrainian salary.
Mongers, please, boycott this joke of a country. Let them find out how life is without a single foreigner to scam, cheat, ripoff, lie to.
They only raise their prices to these insane levels because they see that there is a demand for their pussies from sex-starved westerners.
Go to Thailand, Cambodia, or Colombia. Where the population doesnt want to get rich at your expense!
I certainly am not. Nolies brought it up a few posts down that Kyiv was more expensive than Tokyo and I discredited him. If you even bothered to open up those reports, you would find them at least a bit intriguing. Kyiv was ranked more expensive by one report and less expensive on another. However, they fall in the same range and the difference in order was not much. The best way to answer your question is the following:
Berlin: normal cost of living due to established social classes, cheaper p4p mongering due to an established market and a balancing of supply and demand. Think Amsterdam and $50-100/quick session, Berlin RLD is similiar.
Prague: cheaper cost of living across all social classes, moderately expensive p4p mongering due to large demand from expats and weekend vacation tourists/bachelor parties/etc. Strip club expenses rival western prices.
Kyiv: bigger range in cost of living, from super cheap outer ring, to expensive city center catering to new money. expensive p4p due to relative low supply and higher demand, infant market. Cruiser has always said $300/night at RP was expensive and is correct. That amount rivals the bulk pricing of all western cities. Sure, there are $800-1500 a night in cities like NYC and London, but those services are catered to the elite, C-level executives. It just so happens that RP's version of that is at the $300/night price.
Hecker, I have never really paid much attention to you, but you should be more empathetic and more open in thinking when making direct judgments about someone. My previous response was directly at Nolies and provided good information. You chose to comment for no apparent reason then to say my post was useless to you. To travelers who like to budget or know in advance how much money to bring and spend, that post would be very useful. It breaks down cities around the world pretty well.
Who is interested in comparing Kiev to Tokyo or London? Here we refered to the difference between Kiev, Prague and Berlin from monger's perspective. If you get such a research on the subject, inform us as well, but I doubt very much a scientist will undertake such a research.
Of course you cannot find such comparisons out there because the subject ineterests us mongers and not real estate speculators or any other in finance sector.
Banker24,
It is probable that Nolies has never been in Ukraine. He simply got burned in Moldova and imagines how things must be in Kiev.
Your analysis of the current situation is very good and insightful. It is impossible to see such a review by Nolies.
When I lived in ua 1t was 121 on list then went to 21 on expensive cities. You are righ that rate is more than they deserve. But fact is sexpats keep coming and paying these inflated prices so if we all wet on strike it wouldn't change anything being that most forum members try to save. Almost everyone is for sale in ukraine but not everynight is what keeps supply lower. Girls will rather make 300 for a night and then hope to get another cliant someday soon, then lower rate and get more quantity. Ukrainains pros are lazy but smart. In 2002 rp girls could be talked down to 80 a night (believe me) but sex inflation rised very fast (2 rm center flat 40000 then also). Once visa requirements were dropped and more tourists came girls dint have trouble getting peole to pay more. Unless its changed, rp patrons tend to be well off shorterm business men who don't know local rate or care (expense accouns)there were japaneses tourists throwing out 30 a night back then, so ofcourse girls learned what they can get. Most of the girls wo were 80-100 a night asked for 200 but more girls then clients and if you negotiated price dropped, but know thngs have changed. I do agree, was it cruiser? Who said ua more fun for chance for freebies, yes in brooklyn ny russian girls can be gotten for 150 hr (avg 200 hr) and even daytime special I seen for 125, but are maericanized now LOL, so performance will be different.
banker,
your assumptions that i am middle-aged, unssucsesful in life (assuming success in life is judged by one's bank account size), burnt out and bitter are just that: assumptions.
your bragging about doing fabulously well in finance is also just that: bragging. should i also brag about having made a fortune in penny stocks in the early 90's when you were shitting yellow in your [CodeWord131] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131)?
or getting the cream of the crop of eastern women in prague and budapest all through the 90's when you were masturbating on your toilet seat looking at "ladies from fsu"playboy's edition?
the fact that you are young and succesful doesnt authorise you to discredit older people experiences and achievements. and, yes, these achievements might be bigger than yours, to your arrogant surprise!
learn humility and modesty before a not so mature older person makes you wish you were never born!
How is Kharkiv?
On the lovemy website there are quite a few P4P girls there.
have been there but never bothered to stay very long, its a grim old town.
"to add" But there is a big univercity there so I would guess the chances of freebies is high if you are willing to spend the time.
I got the cream of the crop of Eastern women !
Impressive game indeed.
1) We meet for drinks. After a couple of hours, she refuses my offer to go to my place. She calls me later, saying she misses me and would like to go out to a club. I agree and we meet at STAR TREK later that night. When I get there, surprise she is with a girlfriend. Being the gentleman that I am, I pay both their entrance fees, pay for a table and order drinks for both of them. After they tell me that they are going to the toilet. 30 minutes later they still hadnt come back. I called her phone but she disconnected it. Next day I called, she answered and told me to NEVER call her again.
2) I followed this bomb on the street, after 20 minutes of blablabla she gives me her number. I call her 2 days later, she agrees to go to CITY with me. Same story: entrance fee, pay for table, expensive cocktails. End of the night: she claims she has menstruation. She asks me for money for the taxi and off she goes. I call her 2 days later to be told to please not call her again. Since then she never answers my calls.
I have had a ZILLION other bad experiences like this. !
Impressive "game" indeed.
ROFLMAO
Doctor_Skank
12-15-07, 14:09
Impressive "game" indeed.
ROFLMAO
Perhaps it is a demonstration in futility, but I do give credit to anyone who admits his own failures on the board. For every success story there is a story (or two) of failure that doesn't get posted.
My respect to all those guys out there "on the front" trying to get it done. I do however suggest that they carefully read the posts of the more successful guys, there is a lot of good info in here.
In my opinion some people try to scare the others or drive them away from FSU because they realized that increased competition left them out due to lack of personal abilities in a competitive environment.
Others claim that they get girls because they are VIPs in clubs, others that all the girls rip everybody off, a lot of non-sense information.
What is important are the statistics. If an average westener comes to Kiev, how many days does he have to stay to get laid? How many dates does he have to organize? How much money is he expected to spend on each date on average? What is the quality of women he has the possibility to bed? Is it better in province? Is it better than other EE countries? Is it better than Russia or Belarus?
These are important topics. To these you will see no answers by people who try to frighten the others. You should be able to do a cold analysis, as objective as possible. For example. What contributes to the easiness of women? The average wages? The genes? The population? The social norms? The religion? How do these factors change and where are they now comparatively in Ukraine, b)Belarus, c)Russia, d)EE countries belonging to the West. How can you answer these questions?
I tell you 8 years ago the wages in Ukraine stood at 45$. In 2003 they were 87$. Now they are 280$. What does it mean? Did the wages really get so much up, or did the dollar go down? How much was the inflation? What is the importance of inflation for the monger?
Wages in Poland in 1999 were at 280$. So they were 7 times higher than Ukraine. What does it mean for girls' comparative availability? Now the wages in Poland are 950$. They are 3.5 times higher than the wages in Ukraine. Does it mean that the availability difference reduced to the half? Or that it increased because in absolute numbers the wage difference between Ukraine and Poland was 230$ in 1999 and now it is 600$? What is the role of unemployment? Now it is 8% in Ukraine. It was 25% in Poland in 1999. Now it has decreased to 14% in Poland. How does this affect the attitude of girls?
These are important questions for the mongers. If you manage to answer them correctly, you get the key of estimating the right macroeconomic environment for chasing freebies and you make the most rational choices.
Analysis by Nolies style simply gives you nothing valuable.
Handjob Jerksen
12-16-07, 12:20
Yes, I still insist on the fact that Kyev is unreasonably expensive! And I don't care about all the zillionaires living there. They were ALL forming lines outside empty- shelled shops to get toilet paper (that wasnt always available) 15 years ago! They all forgot how they would have licked the shoe soles of foreigners to even be able to see what a dollar note looked like!Wow, dude! I wish you could have an extra roll and a time machine!
AColonizer
12-16-07, 14:16
Here, there are two big schools of thinking about girls and mongering: the unificated Hecker-Nolies theory on female universe, and the cynical pragmatism of IT Travel and other fuck-and-forget masters. .
The last post of Hecker is very interesting. I would like to contribute with some synthesis of mine:
- "Russian" life style is very different from Italian one and it is more open-minded and plenty of adventures and it has "la grandeur" of U. S. A. life style;
- 8 years ago ukraine was very different from today and girls liked to jump on foreign people for money or for marriage and now "happy days" are finishing quickly;
- "Russian" p2p girls are becoming very cheating and they are becoming very expensive and the quality of their services are downgrounding: I am happy when I find a girl doing deep throat cum injection immediately with no blaming and this is my "break even point", under this point girl is cheating me, above this point girl is working well. Another example: it is a must for a "russian" girl to put condoms with her mouth and to make erotic mouth massage, if she doesn't "know" to do that then she is cheating;
- "Good mongering" is not easy and beginners have to know they will waste a lot of money at starting;
- Solutions about the now-expensive-"Russian"-girls problem? 1. To live and to work for a very long period in FSU and therefore to know the tricks and secrets of "russian" culture; 2. To marry a "pig russian lady" and to have a list of other "pig russian ladies" to marry when the previous wife is becoming a problem;
- I see a lot of turks and arabs in kiev and a lot of ukrainian girls like dark skinned men: would some turks of this forum like to have a wing partner in ukraine? If yes, send a private message to me, soon:.)
Relax break: http: //picant. Blin.com. Ua/pics/65/32396.php
I found a lot of phone numbers of prostitutes in web sites but they aren't usually independent prostitutes but they are agencies with fake photos and fake services and doubled prices for foreigners. I usually find a woman (the manageress or a friend) who decides which girl to send to me. Therefore when I am lucky to find somebody speaking english, I need to talk about beauty, services and prices otherwise I usually waste time and money: some girls become very rude when they can't cheat foreigners.
I contacted www.belamodel. Tk, expensive but all-inclusive services, but igor asked an advanced payment by western union: of course I replied "nyet".
I am trying www.lovushka.net and www.love. I. Ua but I haven't received any good reply yet.
At last, I am moving to Siberian girls: could somebody help me about towns and information for mongering and marrying siberian girls? What do you think about lake Baykal area?
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
I will give you an example of how american techniques work.
I have invited a czech girlfriend to my country.The girl is gorgeous.One day she wants to drink something,so we go to a bar on the beach to buy some ice tea.There are good loking,tanned,young,muscular waiters,the classic kind of men who pick up girls in holidays.So I ask one of them for an ice tea.To my surprise,he smiles and does not answer back.Then I talk to him again and he turns his back.The other waiters are busy,so I try to find chairs to sit.When we sit,the waiter comes in a hurry and tells us,we should not sit because the bar is about to close.We stand up,but I observe that he does not say the same to the other clients who sit and to some next to us who take our seats after us.The bar does not close anyway.
I am frustrated.All this is happening in front of a girl.Unfortunately there is no other bar in the region.I decide to talk again to the waiter and I order two ice teas.He tells me the price.I give him money.Then he comes and gives the ice tea to the girl,nothing to me and he gives the change of the money to the girl.It is an absolutely disrespectful gesture.
What is really happening?Probably the waiter is annoyed to see such a hottie with me.He thinks I do not deserve such a beautiful girl,the most beautiful on the beach.So he decides to challenge me.He acts so provocatively in order to make me adopt defending position.He tries to challenge me.You do not deserve that girl.I show you this blatant.You have to protect yourself and defend.You have to prove you deserve this girl by acting like a man and telling me to behave well.Then I will prove my value.Because I am a young,muscular,attractive man and my value is bigger than yours.The girl will see who is the real deal and leave you for me since you will not be able to defend yourself.
This is the frame he pushes.How should I react to this?
If I am a blood hearted,hot mediteranean,I wil start yelling.In this way he will react and so both will have appear to be demanding our rights,to enjoy our positions in the world.
If I am a european gentleman,I will make some remarks for more repectful behaviour and tact.I will try to befriend the guy.He may think I am weak,so his temperament will force him to coninue the disregard.
So I choose what is advised by americans.I completely ignore the guy.Cause my frame is I am alpha,I have the gorgeous girl,there is nobody who can disrespect me.I do not react to you because you are simply a beta,unproffessional waiter who cannot disturb my alphaness.You should behave better but I am not going to give you advise in front of girl because you are simply beta and you do not deserve any kind of advise.
So I disarm him.The guy is unable to challenge my alphaness.If he knew I was using this technique,he would become violent.He does not know because all this comes through experience,so he has miscallibrated me as having little experience and so that it is impossible to know such techniques.
My frame of alphaness does not allow his to impose any impression on girl's mind.She does not understand anything of the whole intercation.To her mind he is maybe a strange waiter,maybe a little deaf.
So using american techniques I undermine the european concept of equality and give to the interaction the quality I want.
I gave this example to show you how things work in real dating and what american techniques are and how fast you should act and react.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Doctor_Skank
12-16-07, 17:49
In my opinion some people try to scare the others or drive them away from FSU because they realized that increased competition left them out due to lack of personal abilities in a competitive environment.
Others claim that they get girls because they are VIPs in clubs, others that all the girls rip everybody off, a lot of non-sense information.
What is important are the statistics. If an average westener comes to Kiev, how many days does he have to stay to get laid? How many dates does he have to organize? How much money is he expected to spend on each date on average? What is the quality of women he has the possibility to bed? Is it better in province? Is it better than other EE countries? Is it better than Russia or Belarus?
These are important topics. To these you will see no answers by people who try to frighten the others. You should be able to do a cold analysis, as objective as possible. For example. What contributes to the easiness of women? The average wages? The genes? The population? The social norms? The religion? How do these factors change and where are they now comparatively in Ukraine, b)Belarus, c)Russia, d)EE countries belonging to the West. How can you answer these questions?
I tell you 8 years ago the wages in Ukraine stood at 45$. In 2003 they were 87$. Now they are 280$. What does it mean? Did the wages really get so much up, or did the dollar go down? How much was the inflation? What is the importance of inflation for the monger?
Wages in Poland in 1999 were at 280$. So they were 7 times higher than Ukraine. What does it mean for girls' comparative availability? Now the wages in Poland are 950$. They are 3.5 times higher than the wages in Ukraine. Does it mean that the availability difference reduced to the half? Or that it increased because in absolute numbers the wage difference between Ukraine and Poland was 230$ in 1999 and now it is 600$? What is the role of unemployment? Now it is 8% in Ukraine. It was 25% in Poland in 1999. Now it has decreased to 14% in Poland. How does this affect the attitude of girls?
These are important questions for the mongers. If you manage to answer them correctly, you get the key of estimating the right macroeconomic environment for chasing freebies and you make the most rational choices.
Analysis by Nolies style simply gives you nothing valuable.
I understand your idea, but truly believe that analysing GDP and annual wages will offer almost NO insight into the ease of bedding women... I personally have yet to find any really direct correlation between poor women=easy sex in terms of freebies. The easiest and hottest women to get for free are in Moscow, and some of them earn 100-150K US$ a year.
Going to Ukraine and thinking "women are poor so they will want to fuck my passport" is the wrong approach and leads to people like Nolies getting burned and upset.
I understand your idea, but truly believe that analysing GDP and annual wages will offer almost NO insight into the ease of bedding women... I personally have yet to find any really direct correlation between poor women=easy sex in terms of freebies. The easiest and hottest women to get for free are in Moscow, and some of them earn 100-150K US$ a year.
Going to Ukraine and thinking "women are poor so they will want to fuck my passport" is the wrong approach and leads to people like Nolies getting burned and upset.Yes, maybe it is easier in Moscow because there the population factor is very beneficial. Moscow has a population three times bigger than Kiev. Kiev has a population two times bigger than Dnipropetrovsk and Dnipropetrovsk four times more than Ternopil. So even when the wages in Moscow are double than in Kiev, in Kiev double than in dnipropetrovsk and in Dnipropetrovsk double than in Ternopil, the availability of women follows the opposite direction due to the population factor. Because many women from poor villages live in Dnipropetrovsk, many poor women from Dnipro live in Kiev and many poor ukrainian women and women from russian province live in Moscow with a result on availability. The ethics are also important. Albania is the poorest country in Europe, but girls are far less available there than in more advanced countries like Romania. And in Romania less available than in more advanced countries like Russia which are slavic, so the ethics and the genes are different. The wages' approach is a simplified one and you have to take every parameter into account, population, ethics, genes, religion, everything can be important and many of these factors change rapidly, so the data change from period to period.
We often fail in using GDP as a measure for a price of a night out in any country with the ladies that we like to associate with as mongers.
GDP does indeed have a part to play in the pay for play calculations that make up both asking prices and the prices actually attained and consumated.
Forgetting demand and supply and even more vital contributing factors such as "beer goggles" and monger horniness, GDP is an average across the entire population. Since the "average" attractiveness and willingness to bed a stranger is not one that we are much interested in then it holds true that we are dealing with a subset of the population in our hunting. The sub-set attracts a higher fee than the run of the mill sisters for obvious reasons.
Think automobiles and your nocturnal ramblings. Do you really want to pay for and scr*w a Lada, Fiat Tippo or do your eyes look for something a bit more upscale? Yes, I thought so. And a Ferrari for the price of a VW Polo is one that we are all continually searching for.
The last 5 years in which all the world economies have made significant advances have caused increasing upwards pressure on the cost of our entertainment. We, as mongers, simply have to work harder to earn more depreciating dollars or other currencies in order to stay in the game. If we don't, I'm afraid that we will go the way of the Dodo.
Having in the last week interviewed dozens of ladies from across the Ukraine in other warmer parts, it is clear that even in small towns a few hundreds of kilometers from Lugansk that they know that their value is rising and are determined to get their share.
Keep hunting and Enjoy.
Acolonizer you make two mistakes.
1. My theory is the opposite of Nolies' theory because his theory assumes equal qualifications of every monger and almost no game or looks. He does not take into account many important factors as population, genes, ethics except from wages which he cannot interpretate as well.
2. My theory, Nolies' theory etc are theories about availability of freebies while IT travel, Bez etc are interested in pros. So you cannot compare a theory about pros with a theory analyzing freebies. You cannot apply what you learned from freebies on pros and the opposite what you learned from pros has little to do with freebies. So we and the others talk about a total different thing.
Regarding freebies I wrote that you Italians are in disadvantage in Kiev, Moscow and all places where there are not a lot of you because your game focuses on control of other men in group and not on control of girls. Without other men next to you to suck the girls into your reality and support you, you are ineffective compared to the more individualistic Americans, Blacks or even Turks. You need many men around you to absorb the girls, without them you are seriously handicapped.
The same is true with English.
As long as hordes of italian and english tourists do not invade Kiev, individual players will enjoy a certain advantage and this is why I prefer americans to others. Because the players are a percentage let's say 10% of the population and there are not many of them out there. But when the masses come, 90% will be non-players, rude people who will make the girls defensive, demanding and having an attitude. These men will meet girls through their friends who are players and the result will be a rapid deterioration of the situation in Kiev regarding freebies. Cities like Krakow and Prague have almost been destroyed as hunting grounds (excellent in the past) due exactly to the attitude of these men coming in masses.
So the best is to try to get some kind of technique that will allow you to get laid without needing to invite a lot of wings for support and make things much more difficult in the long term.
When do you stop considering a mongering destination as "good"? What attracted us to EE in the first place?
1)Low prices
2)Easyness to have sex with the local female population
Lets rate EE countries on a scale 1-10.
A few years ago. EE countries were without any doubt "10" on my scale. Prices were affordable, population was friendly and eager to mix with foreigners, foreign cultures were fascinating and attractive.
Now, most EE countries have joined the infamous European union and Russia is becoming as rich as Saudi Arabia (with price of oil reaching $100 dollars a barrel). Result:
1)high prices
2)difficult to have sex with local female population, who prefers their own men. So now EE countries rate"3" on a scale 1-10.
Latin america, Southeast Asia, Africa are much better, cheaper options.
The same is true with English.
As long as hordes of italian and english tourists do not invade Kiev
Hecker,
Being a "normal" englishman I take offence at the fact that you seem to think Italians and English can only hunt in groups, I dont and never have and know many other English people who dont.
Moreover I have a very good long term business partner who is Italian also and he is a ex male model and trust me he needs no morral support what so ever he is the only guy I have ever seen that girls swoon over and throw themselves at him, he has had and thrown away far more really faboulous girls that I could or most of us on here can ever dream of having, all on his own!
The "english" you quote in Prague and Latvia are the normal football hooligan idiots and please dont tar all English with the same brush, the same goes with the Italians.
I am not sure what nationality you are but i am sure you would not like to be put together with the worst image of people from your own country?
And as for Americans, you have never been to America spring break week any beach city there ? and seen the youth there acting in just the same as the idiot Italians and English? the reason you dont get the Americans acting the same way in Europe is the reason its just too far to come and do it, if it was closer they would, and perhaps you would get a different image of the "normal american".
On another note,
I have taken to a regular "girlfriend" in Donetsk she has a great job inteligent and more importantly for me....... takes it in every hole.
Anyway she pesters to go to eat sushi, I am sure its been mentioned before as has bowling is it a in built need in these girls or just its the place to be seen? there are a few sushi places here but there in one particular one she wants to go to........... I hate the stuff and dont really want to go but have promissed her for new year only after the main night thank god as she is with her family and my family (wife and kid and her parents and close family) would not be too keen me sloping off on new years eve to go to eat sushi with my girlfriend.
How the hell to you get them to not want the stuff?
Doctor_Skank
12-18-07, 08:13
The wages' approach is a simplified one and you have to take every parameter into account, population, ethics, genes, religion, everything can be important and many of these factors change rapidly, so the data change from period to period.
Exactly... I even find it varies from small city to small city. There are certain parallels of course, but even different cities of comparable size and wealth... like Dnepro or Kharkov... can have a completely different dating culture.
I also find availability of nightlife venues affects their dating rhythm. If there are only a few places to go in town, a few "in" places, they'll often be reluctant to go out with or meet foreigners there as it could "cramp their style" when mixing it up with the local boys. Same goes for discos and clubs. Even a mid-sized city of 800.000-1.000.000 will probably only have 2-3 decent clubs and often only one "in" club. Kiev is a completely different ballgame.
I agree that GDP relative wealth is a factor, but I don't consider it the top one. Again, as you said we are talking about freebies and not P4P, but even P4P follows its own economic rules which are independent of conventional economic theory.
Doctor_Skank
12-18-07, 08:22
On another note,
I have taken to a regular "girlfriend" in Donetsk she has a great job inteligent and more importantly for me....... takes it in every hole.
Anyway she pesters to go to eat sushi, I am sure its been mentioned before as has bowling is it a in built need in these girls or just its the place to be seen? there are a few sushi places here but there in one particular one she wants to go to........... I hate the stuff and dont really want to go but have promissed her for new year only after the main night thank god as she is with her family and my family (wife and kid and her parents and close family) would not be too keen me sloping off on new years eve to go to eat sushi with my girlfriend.
How the hell to you get them to not want the stuff?
Let me guess, she wants to go to "Yakotoria"?
Many girls like to go to in locales and sushi is "in". It's been "in" for several years in Moscow/Kiev and hit the provinces about 2 years ago.
Just take her there... most actually have non-sushi food on the menu too.... or at the very least tempura.
Girls like sushi because it's cool and it doesn't make them fat.... at least that is the theory behind it.
Maybe you could tell her some horror stories about what happens when you get some bad sushi... :)
Hecker,
Being a "normal" englishman I take offence at the fact that you seem to think Italians and English can only hunt in groups, I dont and never have and know many other English people who dont.
Moreover I have a very good long term business partner who is Italian also and he is a ex male model and trust me he needs no morral support what so ever he is the only guy I have ever seen that girls swoon over and throw themselves at him, he has had and thrown away far more really faboulous girls that I could or most of us on here can ever dream of having, all on his own!
The "english" you quote in Prague and Latvia are the normal football hooligan idiots and please dont tar all English with the same brush, the same goes with the Italians.
I am not sure what nationality you are but i am sure you would not like to be put together with the worst image of people from your own country?
And as for Americans, you have never been to America spring break week any beach city there ? and seen the youth there acting in just the same as the idiot Italians and English? the reason you dont get the Americans acting the same way in Europe is the reason its just too far to come and do it, if it was closer they would, and perhaps you would get a different image of the "normal american".
Sorry for the generalization.I was referring to mass tourism,to these hooligans you mention,I do not know if they are the same people but it will be frightening when they get cheap flights to Kiev.Now of course it is difficult because the city has become expensive and lacks the infrastructure to accomodate them.
Of course the individual hunters do no cause damage(except if they propose marriage in order to bang and then do not keep the promise).The others do a good job for us cause they create the right impression for foreigners.
I was not refering to individual players(of whom there are english and italians in some percent for sure) but to the tendency of these nationalities for massive sex tourism through cheap tickets,cheap accomodation and support between members of group.If all these came alone as individuals,they would not cause big damage.It is that they come in groups that boosts their ego and causes such aggressive behaviour.
Anyway I hope that like Moscow,Kiev will stay free from these masses,which of course will hardly avoid if Ukraine joins EU.
Exactly. I even find it varies from small city to small city. There are certain parallels of course, but even different cities of comparable size and wealth. Like Dnepro or Kharkov. Can have a completely different dating culture.
I also find availability of nightlife venues affects their dating rhythm. If there are only a few places to go in town, a few "in" places, they'll often be reluctant to go out with or meet foreigners there as it could "cramp their style" when mixing it up with the local boys. Same goes for discos and clubs. Even a mid-sized city of 800. 000-1. 000. 000 will probably only have 2-3 decent clubs and often only one "in" club. Kiev is a completely different ballgame.
I agree that GDP relative wealth is a factor, but I don't consider it the top one. Again, as you said we are talking about freebies and not P4P, but even P4P follows its own economic rules which are independent of conventional economic theory. What matters is in my opinion the ethics of the population in certain region. In eastern Ukraine (Kharkiv, Lugansk) they have very much russian ethics.
In the West they have polish-like ethics.
In the South (Krimea, Odessa) they have mediteranean ethics and attitude.
In Kiev the ethics and mentality of girls are different from any other part of Ukraine.
In the center (Dnipro, Donetsk, Zaporoziye is the most typical ukrainian-slavic mentality to be found) and there are a lot of gold diggers.
So the difficulty varies according to the region. In the south they had turkish occupation for centuries. So the girls have become more difficult and tricky than in other places. They were exposed to different ethics.
In the East they had communism for 80 years. All the mentality, ethics and infrastructure have changed radically. You will meet there the typical attitude of communist times (sometimes a cultural shock).
In the West they had communism only for 45 years. So the influence of that system on girls' mentality is less aparent while there appear typical patterns of polish girls' mentality and social control like in neighbouring Poland.
In Cernivtsi there is resemblance in appearance and mentality to nearby Moldova. In Uzghorod the attitude and appearance is very close to slovakian-hungarian since this place belonged to Hungary for centuries.
So you choose what is suitable for you. Ukraine offers a huge spectrum of different varieties.
Please help:
Concerning freebies. What city in Ukraine has the easiest freebies? Where girls are not so materialistic and not so big egos? Please don't mention Odessa (worst of the worst)
Please help:
Concerning freebies. What city in Ukraine has the easiest freebies? Where girls are not so materialistic and not so big egos? Please don't mention Odessa (worst of the worst)Nolies I see first you advise people to avoid Ukraine because it is not worth anymore chasing freebies and then you ask for advice what is the best city to get freebies in Ukraine. This seems to me a contradictory attitude.
Please help:
Concerning freebies. What city in Ukraine has the easiest freebies? Where girls are not so materialistic and not so big egos? Please don't mention Odessa (worst of the worst)
The answer my friend is the one YOU get the best results, thank god we are all different and to that we all have our own way of doing things one mans utopia is anothers hell.
Try try and try again, if at first you dont suceed then fuck it and go to RP for a quicky ;o)
Doctor_Skank
12-20-07, 09:36
Please help:
Concerning freebies. What city in Ukraine has the easiest freebies? Where girls are not so materialistic and not so big egos? Please don't mention Odessa (worst of the worst)
I like big city girls... or small town girls displaced to the big city. So Kiev for me... but Odessa hasn't treated me badly either, even though Odessan girls are "worst of the worst" when it comes to playing the game with the best of the best.
I love Odessa. For girls Kiev even better. IMHO going to a small rundown nothing-to-do all day gray industrial post-soviet style town and chase girls all day is somewhat pathetic.
Please help:
Concerning freebies. What city in Ukraine has the easiest freebies? Where girls are not so materialistic and not so big egos? Please don't mention Odessa (worst of the worst)
Bez Bezarra
12-21-07, 05:43
I love Kiev.
going to a rundown nothing-to-do all day gray industrial post-soviet style town and chase girls all day is pathetic.
I say with all my heart that I sincerely hope you'll go right ahead and keep on knocking yourself out pitying my sad sorry-ass existence. :rolleyes:
I love Odessa. For girls Kiev even better. IMHO going to a small rundown nothing-to-do all day gray industrial post-soviet style town and chase girls all day is somewhat pathetic.I've lived in East Ukaine for three years, why would it bother anyone for someone to chase beautiful girls in smaller Ukraine cities? I ll tell you what's pathetic. Paying 200 dollars an hour for a gia girl, you can have Kiev and you can have gia.
Doctor_Skank
12-21-07, 09:34
I've lived in East Ukaine for three years, why would it bother anyone for someone to chase beautiful girls in smaller Ukraine cities? I ll tell you what's pathetic. Paying 200 dollars an hour for a gia girl, you can have Kiev and you can have gia.
The question was about freebies and for those not living in Ukraine. Add the fact that most Euro/American mongers are not that EE-savvy due to language or inexperience, Kiev will yield best value under those circumstances. It's easy to navigate and there are plenty of places to go.
Pursuing freebies in alternate cities has added value in terms of running costs and "curiousity factor", but in terms of overall scoring and relative beauty of the girls I find Kiev and Odessa* to still be the best locations. Odessa gets a big asterik though, for all the reasons we've discussed a billion times over.
Now living in Ukraine would be another story.... I personally LOVE the Donetsk look and had good experiences in Dnepro and Kharkov... even though that weren't in any way easier to get or better-looking than their Kiev sisters.
The answer my friend is the one YOU get the best results, thank god we are all different and to that we all have our own way of doing things one mans utopia is anothers hell.
Try try and try again, if at first you dont suceed then fuck it and go to RP for a quicky ;o)
A classic YMMV situation.
Chasing girls in Kiev is like riding a Mercedes,very convenient and comfortable experience for which you have to pay while chasing girls in province is like riding a tractor,painful and harsh experience for which you pay considerably less.So if you are skilled enough to cope with the tractor,then chosing it means that you save important amounts of money.
Chasing or paying is totally irrelevant, most guys who visit do both, I took his post at face value; visiting, living, whatever. He seems to think that there's some sigma attached to guys who persue girls outside major population centers, I live in a mid-size East Ukraine city and chase alot of girls; inessence, he's calling me pathetic. In reality, living here is an ideal situation. I ll put the 10s in my city up against the 10s in Kiev anytime, we have exceptional restaurants and nightclubs that cost a fraction of what one would pay in Kiev, we get top name Ukraine/Russian entertainment groups touring just like Kiev, as well as Russian ballets and the Moscow Circus, just what does he find in Kiev that's so exciting that he can't get in other Ukraine Cities?
I haven't caroused in Kiev since 10-'04, and the only thing I miss about the place is the close proximity to term B, and not much more. I do like Kiev; never liked Odessa. And I find the girls in my city to be very approachable, easy to talk to, much more so than Kiev, in many cases, closing the deal may take a little time, but worth the effort.
The question was about freebies and for those not living in Ukraine. Add the fact that most Euro/American mongers are not that EE-savvy due to language or inexperience, Kiev will yield best value under those circumstances. It's easy to navigate and there are plenty of places to go.
Pursuing freebies in alternate cities has added value in terms of running costs and "curiousity factor", but in terms of overall scoring and relative beauty of the girls I find Kiev and Odessa* to still be the best locations. Odessa gets a big asterik though, for all the reasons we've discussed a billion times over.
Now living in Ukraine would be another story.... I personally LOVE the Donetsk look and had good experiences in Dnepro and Kharkov... even though that weren't in any way easier to get or better-looking than their Kiev sisters.
A classic YMMV situation.
for newbie kiev is better because it has the infrastructure. you know where to go, many girls speak english and money talks because there are a lot of expensive places to go with the girl.
province is for experienced short time travellers who know the language, have persistence, speed, flexibility, change options, ae experienced in slavic girls and want to avoid expenses. another advantage of province is thatyou get hotties of quality that is almost unavailable for you in kiev. the girls a foreigner picks up in province would not fall for him in kiev cause there they have more opportunities but in kiev there are a lot more available average looking girls than in province due to the population factor.
that means in kiev it is likely to get three average girls if you stay ten days while in province you may get a model and an average girl in the same time provided you are skilled.
what matters is the value number of girls/time spent, quality of girls/money spent, number of girls/money spent and number x quality of girls/money x time spent minus number x quality of girls / money x time spent in another alternative place in order to estimate the relative value of the place.
Doctor_Skank
12-23-07, 01:46
I ll put the 10s in my city up against the 10s in Kiev anytime, we have exceptional restaurants and nightclubs that cost a fraction of what one would pay in Kiev, we get top name Ukraine/Russian entertainment groups touring just like Kiev, as well as Russian ballets and the Moscow Circus, just what does he find in Kiev that's so exciting that he can't get in other Ukraine Cities?
I haven't caroused in Kiev since 10-'04, and the only thing I miss about the place is the close proximity to term B, and not much more. I do like Kiev; never liked Odessa. And I find the girls in my city to be very approachable, easy to talk to, much more so than Kiev, in many cases, closing the deal may take a little time, but worth the effort.
So where is "your city"?
Dnepro, Kharkov, Donetsk, Lugansk?
e) none of the above
Just curious.
And since when is a girl in Kiev not approachable? Do they ever NOT give you their phone number?
Now living in Ukraine would be another story.... I personally LOVE the Donetsk look and had good experiences in Dnepro and Kharkov... even though that weren't in any way easier to get or better-looking than their Kiev sisters.
When are you comming to Donetsk then?
Let me know if you fancy it I will get the red carpet out! ;)
American Ukraine, I ve been living in Lugansk for nearly three yrs, I disagree with much of your prior post, when I read some of your posts, I have to believe you're talking of a totally different Luganst,
I associate with many Ukraine guys (unfortunately), I can say with the most certainty, that there is a great deal of bigotry here, when these guys see a group of Arabian students, or someone from Africa, the things they say are very mean, and outright cruel, I highly doubt however, that the majority of people here would tend to act out violently against foreign students; but, I'm sure it's happened, there is a bigotry here, and alot of it. My gosh, there's a small magazine in the center, located in the basement of a music store, that sells skinhead clothing, boots, etc. and that's all they sell. There must be a market for this type of merchandise in this city.
I am not viewed by the locals as a foreign student with no money, and I am not the only one, when guys come here from the west, and chase girls through these silly marriage agencies, or do whatever they come here for, the locals don't look at these people (and me included) as being poor, with barley enough funds to pay for their flat, the locals (and i refer to all of them or maybe 99%) here will take as much as they can, from who they can, whenever they can, because they know these people have money, that's life here in Lugansk, there are times I just don't understand what you're writing about.
AM, you need to venture out of the friendly confines of that med university, mingle with the locals. I highly suspect you're in this for the money, and way off with much you write about.
Thats where hes from!
Doctor_Skank
12-24-07, 13:56
When are you comming to Donetsk then?
Let me know if you fancy it I will get the red carpet out! ;)
I may come out in late Feb actually... I am seriously apeshit about Donetsk women, they are hot.
I may come out in late Feb actually... I am seriously apeshit about Donetsk women, they are hot.
Hotter than your Muscovites? =]]
Doctor_Skank
12-24-07, 19:42
Hotter than your Muscovites? =]]
What makes Moscow women so hot is that they come from everywhere... every dump from Tomsk to Yoshkar-Ola sends it's hottest and finest to Moscow for a chance at Bright Lights Big City.
That's also why Kiev still rules as Ukraine's freebie central... instead of Tomsk and Yoshkar-Ola it's Dnepro and Donetsk...
But yeah, going to the source every once and awhile does make sense.... :)
My favorite Donetsk look is the jet black hair, pale skin, long thin legs and perky bouncy healthy breasts. Wrap it up in stilletos and a too short miniskirt and you have "Donetsk woman".
My favorite Donetsk look is the jet black hair, pale skin, long thin legs and perky bouncy healthy breasts. Wrap it up in stilletos and a too short miniskirt and you have "Donetsk woman".
That sounds like the short-term GF I was recently banging in the Baltics - less the stilletos and miniskirt. She was more of an artsy type and I digged that about her actually. Stark naked, there's not much difference between what we digg with clothes on. Mine had Angelina Jolie lips so that really topped it off for me. Unfortunately, I got dumped 1 month after leaving because I apparently broke her heart by coming back to Oceania as I was more concerned with setting myself up professionally first - before my eventual permanent move to Europe where I would have set-up a worthwhile 'work' to do. Such is life as I'm just past my mid-20's and I wasn't born with a silver spoon.
Anyway, I'm over that "look" now and onto a light-haired (blond tones) Siberian tigress phase.
I'm finally organizing the move to the Baltics in 2Q 2008. Once I've settled down, would love to give Russian and Ukrainian freebies a good crack. Yes, I might have missed the boat of the good-old-days, but who gives a fuck. I didn't have a say in my birth era and how it could have coincided with the fall of the great social experiment from dear mother-USSR. I missed the good 'ol times in the late 90's Baltics too but it didn't stop me from enjoying myself there in the past 4 years. Gave Estonia a missed so far (but will make an effort to cross that country off one day as a traveling experience more so than mongering) as I heard they're not much different to the Finns, either that or they have been fucked over by them for decades anyway even while under the occupation of Russia.
However, I do suggest to all you mongers that although I have no experience in Ukraine and Russia yet; I would certainly recommend that based on my knowledge and success rate in the Baltics - Latvia and Lithuania, and comparing that to the posts I've read here about Russian and Ukrainian women - one would be better off in (especially) Ru or Ua.
Reason being that Latvia is 50% Russians and to me, they're just wannabe's of the real thing in Moscow in everything. Whatever it may be, just think of them as 'copying' but just never able to be the real deal.
The Baltics in general is much more laid back (but that's slowly changing as well - just not as chaotic as Moscow I presume and never, ever will be) compared to their eastern cousins and it suits my personality to be permanently based there, whilst not being too far off to take short-term trips to the east.
On a personal note, I certainly wish Dr Skank, Cruiser D and many others whose post I have come to enjoy will not be retiring anytime soon as it would be a pleasure to meet some of you socially in real life one day.
Remember, love conquers all - whether it be for the love of multiple physical (sexual), mental or emotional companionships.
Meaning of life is to live = love = making the most of what comes your way; turning negatives to positives, and being humbled by that moment of lesson or enjoying the indulgence.
Back to family obligations for the festive season and I certainly wish all of you a safe and joyous holidays.
Doctor_Skank
12-25-07, 02:00
That sounds like the short-term GF I was recently banging in the Baltics - less the stilletos and miniskirt. She was more of an artsy type and I digged that about her actually.
On a personal note, I certainly wish Dr Skank, Cruiser D and many others whose post I have come to enjoy will not be retiring anytime soon as it would be a pleasure to meet some of you socially in real life one day.
Remember, love conquers all - whether it be for the love of multiple physical (sexual), mental or emotional companionships.
Personally I love smart women, it's a huge turnon for me.
As for retirement, Cruiser? He'll never retire.
As for me, there are just too many females out there I want to be with... I simply enjoy their company... and fucking them isn't bad either.
EE mongering has changed over the years, but although you missed the Golden Age of Mongering (I only caught the very end of it and was too naive then to make the most of it anyway) you haven't missed the Silver Age. It's in full swing and there for the taking.
Does anyone have an idea how much a hostess (not turning tricks) from this part of the world earns abroad. Thanks.
DJ FourMoney
01-01-08, 08:11
Personally I love smart women, it's a huge turnon for me.
As for retirement, Cruiser? He'll never retire.
As for me, there are just too many females out there I want to be with... I simply enjoy their company... and fucking them isn't bad either.
EE mongering has changed over the years, but although you missed the Golden Age of Mongering (I only caught the very end of it and was too naive then to make the most of it anyway) you haven't missed the Silver Age. It's in full swing and there for the taking.
Silver Age? Hmmmm....
If the Golden Age was easy freebies and ultra cheap P4P...
Then the Silver Age is more diffcult "easy" lays; that scares away those without any "real" game and leaves better "educated" women about men from Western Culture. Which if you want to "wife" them, the adjustment is a bit easier (not the Green Card part of it...) they have been exposed to 15 years of Western Culture both GOOD and BAD.
Happy New Year Doctor, Cruiser, Bez, IT and few others that have given back to the forum.
Doctor_Skank
01-01-08, 16:37
Does anyone have an idea how much a hostess (not turning tricks) from this part of the world earns abroad. Thanks.
What kind of hostess? A club hostess, waitress, stewardess or what exactly?
AFAIK most entry-level service jobs earn about $250-400/month, although students/part-timers will earn less and lower management earns a tiny bit more.
Then the Silver Age is more diffcult "easy" lays; that scares away those without any "real" game and leaves better "educated" women about men from Western Culture. Which if you want to "wife" them, the adjustment is a bit easier (not the Green Card part of it...) they have been exposed to 15 years of Western Culture both GOOD and BAD.
That's what I actually like about this Silver Age. Men need to up their game and women are getting educated (the GOOD) to the Westerner's game of life and relationship. Killing two birds with one stone.
But of course, in the long run - we are also shooting ourselves in the foot when they start becoming too much like our own women (the BAD) with their snobbishness, self-absorbed, spoilt brat mentality, over consumption and materialism, lack of family values and importance, me me me attitude etc...
In short, we should just look at the glass as half full before it spills over. Enjoy life and live the moment while the ride is still in cruise control.
The real difference lies in numbers.In golden times,when you entered a club most girls were willing to join you.This meant that you had to start conversation with one,two before finding a girlfriend.
Now most girls are not willing to join you,which means that you have to go through 20-30 before getting a girlfriend.This is translated to more effort for the same result.Now you chase the 10% which is willing to sleep with foreigners.
Doctor_Skank
01-01-08, 21:41
The reall difference lies in numbers.In golden times,when you entered a club most girls were willing to join you.This meant that you had to start conversation with one,two before finding a girlfriend.
Now most girls are not willing to join you,which means that you have to go through 20-30 before getting a girlfriend.This is translated to more effort for the same result.Now you chase the 10% which is willing to sleep with foreigners.
Your assumption might be correct in principal, but your numbers are off.
Now you chase the 10% which is willing to sleep with foreigners.
I do not agree to that. I have been blown off plenty of times for being a foreigner who might have come across the wrong way. But in my case, 9/10 of freebies I've scored have told me it wasn't because I was from abroad. It was actually due to the fact that I didn't talk or act like a typical foreigner in their country, but as any other normal guy they would be attracted to in the social scene. Big plus was I took the effort to learn about their country's history and culture so that we could converse on an intelligent level.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please tell me what's left of the draw card in being a foreigner these days; especially in Moscow and to a lesser extent SPB, Kiev, Odessa (especially in summer) ...etc?
The Skanky Doc have fucked women who are children of billionaires, politicians, career women earning 100k-200k/yr or more, millionaire owners of their own business ...the list goes on.
I met an average salary earning Latino guy in the Baltics and he was the official boyfriend (he felt like her toy-boy though) for a few years of one of the biggest Russian music stars. She banged nobody else whilst they were together and believe me, she was the one sponsoring him with all the perks eg. supercars, stretch Hummers, private jets between his home in Milan-Moscow, Kazakhstan sturgeon caviar for breakfast when she said "anything you want for breakfast" within 30mins of this request coming out of his mouth. I have seen provocative pictures of her in his mobile and even googled it to confirm she is what he says.
It is not that the 90% choose not to fuck foreigners anymore due to the perception change from foreign-savior to foreigner-stigma. It is because many women have smartened up, and learned how to play the game of life without needing a foreigner to get ahead in life. The sooner we get over ourselves as foreigners, the more women (who are not attracted to you base solely on your foreign status) we will attract base on our substance.
If I was to rely solely on my status as a foreigner in the EE, I would score so much lesser. My ethnicity don't usually fly with the Slavic girls' stereotypical (television gotten) views of what we ought to be.
Just sayin' is all.
Ps. I've only gone for freebies in the EE so far. So P4P is irrelevant to me because in that situation, cash is king or depending on your bargaining skills.
Doctor_Skank
01-01-08, 21:50
I do not agree to that. I have been blown off plenty of times for being a foreigner who might have come across the wrong way. But in my case, 9/10 of freebies I've scored have told me it wasn't because I was from abroad. It was actually due to the fact that I didn't talk or act like a typical foreigner in their country, but as any other normal guy they would be attracted to in the social scene. Big plus was I took the effort to learn about their country's history and culture so that we could converse on an intelligent level.
Correct me if I'm wrong, please tell me what's left of the draw card in being a foreigner these days; especially in Moscow and to a lesser extent SPB, Kiev, Odessa (especially in summer) ...etc?
The Skanky Doc have fucked women who are children of billionaires, politicians, career women earning 100k-200k/yr or more, millionaire owners of their own business ...the list goes on.
I met an average salary earning Latino guy in the Baltics and he was the official boyfriend (he felt like her toy-boy though) for a few years of one of the biggest Russian music stars. She banged nobody else whilst they were together and believe me, she was the one sponsoring him with all the perks eg. supercars, stretch Hummers, private jets between his home in Milan-Moscow, Kazakhstan sturgeon caviar for breakfast when she said "anything you want for breakfast" within 30mins of this request coming out of his mouth. I have seen provocative pictures of her in his mobile and even googled it to confirm she is what he says.
It is not that the 90% choose not to fuck foreigners anymore due to the perception change from foreign-savior to foreigner-stigma. It is because many women have smartened up, and learned how to play the game of life without needing a foreigner to get ahead in life. The sooner we get over ourselves as foreigners, the more women (who are not attracted to you base solely on your foreign status) we will attract base on our substance.
If I was to rely solely on my status as a foreigner in the EE, I would score so much lesser. My ethnicity don't usually fly with the Slavic girls' stereotypical (television gotten) views of what we ought to be.
Just sayin' is all.
Ps. I've only gone for freebies in the EE so far. So P4P is irrelevant to me because in that situation, cash is king or depending on your bargaining skills.
That's more like it, well said Saunter.
As I recently said before, if money or a passport or just being a foreigner is all you are offering the girls you may eventually find one that's interested and get laid, but this is definitely NOT the most effective way to score with lots of women. Using this basic money/foreigner method and expecting it to work is why so many foreign mongers go home frustrated and undersexed after their Ukrainian sex holiday.
Your foreign status may very well accentuate their attraction to you and in my experience WILL make them go to bed with you than they might with a local guy, but Saunter is right in that in most cases just BEING foreign is not why they liked you. These days you have to bring a bit more to the table, but it is still pretty easy.
What kind of hostess? A club hostess, waitress, stewardess or what exactly?
AFAIK most entry-level service jobs earn about $250-400/month, although students/part-timers will earn less and lower management earns a tiny bit more.
like the girls that go to japan to sit with customers at the hostesses bars but don't boink them. thanks.
Your assumption might be correct in principal, but your numbers are off.I talk about clubs and street action,not about internet dates.In internet you have to go through 400 girls to find 40 that you like of which 10 will give you their phone numbers of which you will meet 4 and bed 1 of them.You have done the selection before.In club and street you have again to go through 40 etc.
Doctor_Skank
01-02-08, 08:25
like the girls that go to japan to sit with customers at the hostesses bars but don't boink them. thanks.
Never really seen that scene in EE, except for strippers who sit with you at strip clubs and chat/get groped up for a couple of griv. Sorry!
Doctor_Skank
01-02-08, 08:44
I talk about clubs and street action,not about internet dates.In internet you have to go through 400 girls to find 40 that you like of which 10 will give you their phone numbers of which you will meet 4 and bed 1 of them.You have done the selection before.In club and street you have again to go through 40 etc.
Quite often when working the internet I let them take the first step. Because I usually don't have too much time to chase freebies when on the ground in country due to work, I often let the girls do the pre-selection, meaning I just browse the girls that were checking me out and pick a couple of those that I like (along with a couple I choose from the inet myself) and start writing to them. Easily more than half will cough up a number within 10-15 messages. Going into country armed with about 10 numbers it just becomes a question of logistics on how many you can meet and which ones will be promising enough for a second or third date/sex.
The clubs have a different dynamic for me as I don't look at it as a percentage game but rather browse a club early and pick out 3-4 targets for the night, girls that have that something that pleases me. I work these targets unless something else comes along. Sometimes that means just hitting on the cutest girl within arm's reach... :)
I really don't know what percentage of the total number of girls interested in me (or foreign guys in general) in any particular club would be, but as I said before I assume that EVERY girl is available if the conditions are right, meaning you can charm her/tweak her interest. I've always felt that on most club nights, if I wasn't successful it was because I screwed something up... like being too passive, too drunk or just had bad luck selecting the wrong girls to hit on. It wasn't a question of the girls just not being interested in foreigners or me in particular, but rather a lack of "communication" on many different levels.
I will agree with you however that when going into a club "cold", meaning without any pre-contacts or without a date or group of people including girls, there is absolutely no guarantee that you will score. I have gone home alone many many times, just as any monger has. Sometimes my fault, sometimes not. Sometimes the best you can do is just getting a couple of phone numbers, some light kissing or fondling... or nothing. Even if in theory all single girls are willing to go home with a guy under the right conditions, it doesn't mean you found or were pushing the right buttons to convince her to do so. Every woman has her weaknesses, finding them and exploiting them within the limited time you have together at a club is a combination of skill, natural charm, field conditions and luck. Sometimes one of the four is enough to score, sometimes you need all four.
Never really seen that scene in EE, except for strippers who sit with you at strip clubs and chat/get groped up for a couple of griv. Sorry!
i mean how much do the clubs in japan pay the girls to come from EE to work there as hostesses. sorry for the confusion and sorry for intruding on the thread.
Doctor_Skank
01-02-08, 15:46
i mean how much do the clubs in japan pay the girls to come from EE to work there as hostesses. sorry for the confusion and sorry for intruding on the thread.
Check this out:
http://home.cfl.rr.com/shidhe/HostessPositions.htm
My favorite Donetsk look is the jet black hair, pale skin, long thin legs and perky bouncy healthy breasts. Wrap it up in stilletos and a too short miniskirt and you have "Donetsk woman".
The "look" this year is hot pants and thigh highs.
Doctor_Skank
01-02-08, 16:10
The "look" this year is hot pants and thigh highs.
Works for me...))) Pics please!
Although microskirts and fuck me boots in -20° weather never ceases to impress me. Thank God they never got around to telling the girls in the provinces that it just isn't done anymore.
Hey guys,
After traveling so many places in the world I can tell that kiev is the best place to be with girls. First time in kiev was in oct. 2004 since then I go 3 to 4 times a year I even have plans to move there soon, I was with a lot of young girls Many of them are down to earth, if you wanna get them be nice and smart, high school is the place for you just get the first one and she"ll do the job, here's some pictures.
Orange Leo
01-03-08, 01:43
i mean how much do the clubs in japan pay the girls to come from EE to work there as hostesses. sorry for the confusion and sorry for intruding on the thread.Ukraine business girls I have met in person had told they can make more in Poland or Moscow then they could make in Germany, Netherlands, London or whereever they have told me they have been.
Explorer69
01-04-08, 14:41
Never really seen that scene in EE, except for strippers who sit with you at strip clubs and chat/get groped up for a couple of griv. Sorry!I hot girl in Millenium strip club told me (after fucking her for some nights) that she made USD 1-2000 a month for just sitting, drinking etc. with customers, tip, etc. For making more she must have sex with customers.
Explorer69
01-04-08, 14:42
Never really seen that scene in EE, except for strippers who sit with you at strip clubs and chat/get groped up for a couple of griv. Sorry!A hot girl in Millenium strip club told me (after I had been fucking her for some nights) that she made USD 1000-2000 a month for just sitting, drinking with customers, tip, etc. For making more she must have sex with customers.
I met a very educated (radiologist) and hot single mom (26) and want to keep her on my shelf. She's semi in the game but says that she will get out if I provide for her on the level that she is accustomed to. I am a newbie to this whole sponsorship thing but realize that if I want monogmous--or lat least on-call--hot EE women I gotta tend to their worldly needs.
She said that she sent home about $1200 a month when working in Singapore as a model and hostess.
1200 a month doesn't sound like too much to pay for a woman of this caliber.
Explorer, yeah those 80-100uah drinks they order add up fast. Millenium used to have the hottest girls in Kiev but it’s been going downhill fast since 2004. :)
Dirk, at least at $1200/month you know she wasn't fucking anyone. Unless 'fees' or other cost were eating into how much she could send home. One of my Kiev girls who 'works' in Switzerland told me how one weekend someone spent $10k for her but that wasn't to sit on the couch and serve him drinks. :) Regardless of the country 'hostesses' still turn tricks, some just don't do it. I just had a fairly good looking girl, around an 8 ask for $3k/week on Flirt. I told her 3k/month maybe, she hasn't replied back yet. Not that I would want her for a month - a short weekend maybe. I have a freebie coming to Kiev for two days and I'm already regretting being tied down for that long.
Explorer69
01-05-08, 00:23
I met a very educated (radiologist) and hot single mom (26) and want to keep her on my shelf. She's semi in the game but says that she will get out if I provide for her on the level that she is accustomed to. I am a newbie to this whole sponsorship thing but realize that if I want monogmous--or lat least on-call--hot EE women I gotta tend to their worldly needs.
She said that she sent home about $1200 a month when working in Singapore as a model and hostess.
1200 a month doesn't sound like too much to pay for a woman of this caliber.There are many aspects on sponsorship, I have (a almost extensive!) experience with it. Before you go into it, you must ask her and yourself several questions:
1. Get information on how much she made total in Singapore, maybe she made 5000, but sent home 1200?
2. Get information about her lifestyle - do it carefully and over time so that she does not completely understand what you are after.... For instance about her monthly costs/budget. How much does she pay for apartment/babysitter, etc. When you know the girls they usualy don't mind to discuss their consumption of money - but don't ask how they make the money! Some of these girls go to massage, beauty salon, spend a lot of money on "useless" things that actually cost a lot. They cannot afford doing it without a LOT of fucking/sponsors.
3. I met with a girl from Kiev for some days in Odessa last summer. During this time she mentioned that she spent USD 5000 a month for living! In her normal job she made 500!! She told me she used taxi for something between USD 500 and 800 a month!!
When you have a lot of information about her expenses, then you must follow your intution, your brain, your heart - and maybe your dick! How eager are you? How likely is it with her economy and your contribution is it that she will be faithful to you? When you combine her salary and and your money, can it cover for her present lifestyle? Maybe you only want to have her when you are there? Have you other plans for her, maybe marriage? has she expressed interest in something even more serious?
I have had mostly good experiences with sponsorship, I wrote about this some months ago - but also some bad. But you must feel that she really likes you when you start! Most of my experiences are very good, and a few ended with serious feelings on both sides - real love affairs. If I feel she does it for money only, I never enter a sponsorship! After all the majority of girls prefer to have one (or two?) sponsors instead of fucking many guys. On the other side some girls are so eager on money and their own spending money on useless shit, that they want to fuck a new guy every night to keep up with it. However, there is a lot that are just sweet girls that do some tricks to pay their bills. And single mothers in Ukraine are quite vulnerable regarding economy - taking care of a child, paying babysitter, etc (I have sponsored one).
But 1200 is not an unreasonable sum these days in Kiev. Four years ago I sponsored a hot girl for 300 a month:)), but times are changing! And you must be prepared that all of a sudden when you have given her 1200 and think it is fine until next month, you get an SMS or e-mail telling you about she suddenly despeartely needs another 800 for something unexpected, or she forgot to mention it, or whatever... Some girls are as good in sucking your wallet as they are sucking your dick... I have stopped contact with girls because they had too many "sudden and totally necessary" expenses:)).
In the end of the day: be prepared for the worst, but if you can afford it without too much problems, follow your intuition, it can give you a lot of pleasure - but be on guard!
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
clap..clap..well said Explorer.
The average going rate to sponsor a girl in Ukraine these days is $10000-$17000 a month ..ridiculously cheap by comparison to Western Europe or USA ($50000-$200000 a month).and the pussy is made out of gold and platinum and smells like chanel no.5
Professor Nolies, did you add an extra zero by mistake? Or are you just insane?
You can still find a Kiev girl that will go for $1k/month if you have an lifestyle to offer. Of course you can always pay the girls as much as they want. Same goes for the US or the West.
Explorer69
01-06-08, 12:34
The average going rate to sponsor a girl in Ukraine these days is $10000-$17000 a month ..ridiculously cheap by comparison to Western Europe or USA ($50000-$200000 a month).and the pussy is made out of gold and platinum and smells like chanel no.5I know that there are girls that ask for 10000 a month, but in general these figures are ridiculous and totally wrong. There are a few extremely hot girls working as high class escorts or strippers in the most expensive nightclubs, they want such money for "exclusive" sponsoring, but for 99.9% of the girls, such figures are absurd! Forget it! If she asks for it ,then you know what she is!
Explorer69
01-06-08, 12:46
The average going rate to sponsor a girl in Ukraine these days is $10000-$17000 a month ..ridiculously cheap by comparison to Western Europe or USA ($50000-$200000 a month).and the pussy is made out of gold and platinum and smells like chanel no.5For the last 3 nights I had great (almost unbelievable!) sex with a bisexual duo (semipros). They offer me exclusive sponsorship for 1000 each. If I had been living in Kiev I would go for it:). But a total of 2000 is too much when I only visit now and then:). However, these are very sweet, simple student girls from outside Kiev, actually I believe them when they say it would be exclusive, they just want to study and have a decent life. But who knows?
My girls don't need that much even, just little things here and there and a lot of fuck!
AColonizer
01-06-08, 15:28
Dear users,
I see in www.flirt.com.ua for example the same girl with several profiles and I see that same girl has several profiles "on-line status" at the same time:. What are the Internet Explorer options to manage several profiles "on-line status" at the same time?
The average going rate to sponsor a girl in Ukraine these days is $10000-$17000 a month ..ridiculously cheap by comparison to Western Europe or USA ($50000-$200000 a month).and the pussy is made out of gold and platinum and smells like chanel no.5
A real nice girl like L. now sponsored full time (I omit her name....) now getsa something like 3500 USD... for 17,000 I think you can get a real porn accress (maybe even two!).... Ridicolous...
I think that for 200.000 USD, even in Italy i could get real stunners (yeah I mean 10 or 15...)
Crazy prices...
IT
I have been offered $200 a week by some goddesses. In Ukraine remember that they will ask for the sky and don't really respect you if you do not barter. If they say no, even the goverment says there is 1.8 girls to each guy, shop around.
A real nice girl like L. now sponsored full time (I omit her name....) now getsa something like 3500 USD... for 17,000 I think you can get a real porn accress (maybe even two!).... Ridicolous...
I think that for 200.000 USD, even in Italy i could get real stunners (yeah I mean 10 or 15...)
Crazy prices...
IT
Excellent post Explorer.
I think that Nolies added an extra zero by mistake.
You are right that the girls spend an exorbitant percentage of their disposable income on bullshit. Clothes, salons, and beauty supplies take precedence over everything else in the girls’ budgets. Savings and planning for a rainy day aren’t on their radar.
I’m a fine one to talk though; about the only thing I’m good at is spending money on girls, vacations, and booze.
The girl is from Kharkiv and seems honest enough, but I know that unless you live in the same city for a decent amount of time with a Russian girl you don’t know what you are getting. We spoke last night and she said that she needed 1200 bucks a month to live; this figure includes her own salary of $400-$550. This is a small price to pay for a hot vacation partner every 6 weeks.
I’ve found that single moms are generally more appreciative of a good man with a stable job than others girls are. If the girl and her child start to depend upon you the loyalty factor increases substantially. This isn’t always a good thing because you may start to develop a relationship with the kid so it’s harder to disengage.
I don’t think that I would support a woman with a baby that didn’t have a job. Having a job shows character and responsibility. You wouldn’t believe how many of these girls have neither quality and “earn” their income solely from men and remittances from kin abroad.
Thanks for the excellent advice fellas.
Explorer69
01-07-08, 13:04
Excellent post Explorer.
I think that Nolies added an extra zero by mistake.
The girl is from Kharkiv and seems honest enough, but I know that unless you live in the same city for a decent amount of time with a Russian girl you don’t know what you are getting. We spoke last night and she said that she needed 1200 bucks a month to live; this figure includes her own salary of $400-$550. This is a small price to pay for a hot vacation partner every 6 weeks.
I’ve found that single moms are generally more appreciative of a good man with a stable job than others girls are. If the girl and her child start to depend upon you the loyalty factor increases substantially. This isn’t always a good thing because you may start to develop a relationship with the kid so it’s harder to disengage.
I don’t think that I would support a woman with a baby that didn’t have a job. Having a job shows character and responsibility. You wouldn’t believe how many of these girls have neither quality and “earn” their income solely from men and remittances from kin abroad.
Thanks for the excellent advice fellas.So she needs a total of 1200 and she makes close to 500. OK, if you add 7-800 pluss some presents necessary now and then it costs you 1000 a month pluss, pluss. As you say, not a bad deal if you see her regularly and she is hot.
And you are right what you say about single moms, the chances are less that they play extra around.
Explorer69
01-07-08, 13:13
Dirk,
Another thing: if you are a little generous beyond the absolute necessities like the 1200, her loyalty to you increases a lot. And remember: the key to a heart of a single mother may be through presents and attention to her child. But that is particularly important only if YOU have more SERIOUS intentions.
Explorer - I don't think anyone who reads these boards are 'serious' in the least bit. Except for the lurkers who read them as fantasy.
Dirk - It doesn't matter if Nolies added an extra zero or not. I'm sure he's never sponsored a girl in his life...and certainly never in the US.
A good apartment outside of the center in Kiev will cost around 1k/month. I'm assuming it will probably be 30% less in Kharkov. Personally I'd rather underwrite a student girl in Kiev for 1k/month then a single mother in Kharkov. But that's just me.
1200$ a month to live in provincial Ukraine sounds to me exaggerated.Most families make ends meet by 500-600$ per month,including expenses for more than one children and expenses of husband.Do not be surprised if she uses the extra 700$ to buy expensive clothes,make up,perfumes in order to improve her appearance and find a new husband.
It seems foreigners have started to spoil province after Kiev girls have become more expensive.
Also my personal remark is that unemployed girls or students who do not work tend not to ask for presents etc maybe because they do not know the value of money or they do not know their value in the market while working girls know both.
Excellent post Explorer.
I think that Nolies added an extra zero by mistake.
You are right that the girls spend an exorbitant percentage of their disposable income on bullshit. Clothes, salons, and beauty supplies take precedence over everything else in the girls’ budgets. Savings and planning for a rainy day aren’t on their radar.
I’m a fine one to talk though; about the only thing I’m good at is spending money on girls, vacations, and booze.
The girl is from Kharkiv and seems honest enough, but I know that unless you live in the same city for a decent amount of time with a Russian girl you don’t know what you are getting. We spoke last night and she said that she needed 1200 bucks a month to live; this figure includes her own salary of $400-$550. This is a small price to pay for a hot vacation partner every 6 weeks.
I’ve found that single moms are generally more appreciative of a good man with a stable job than others girls are. If the girl and her child start to depend upon you the loyalty factor increases substantially. This isn’t always a good thing because you may start to develop a relationship with the kid so it’s harder to disengage.
I don’t think that I would support a woman with a baby that didn’t have a job. Having a job shows character and responsibility. You wouldn’t believe how many of these girls have neither quality and “earn” their income solely from men and remittances from kin abroad.
Thanks for the excellent advice fellas.
I have been in Kiew and good experience there but now planing to go to Kharkiv after the cold winter, and wonder how is your experience there with young students? better chances than in Kiew and the rates and services? which places could you recomend me there in this city for non pro and also to rent apartments?
Thanks for your help
Explorer69
01-08-08, 00:40
Explorer - I don't think anyone who reads these boards are 'serious' in the least bit. Except for the lurkers who read them as fantasy.
I agree, but still there are some girls from Kiev (and other places in CIS countries) that end up getting married to "clients". After all, many of these girls are nice student girls that do some trick now and then, they are not somebody fucking 7 guys a day. They can be introduced to mom if you don't tell how we met, LOL! I have heard several stories from girls about girlfriends getting married to somebody they met in River Palace! Maybe daydreams, but? Of course, that was not the primary intention of the "client" when they met.
I had real love stories with some of my sponsored girls. If it had not been for the fact that I am firmly convinced that for a 50 year old guy to marry a hot 21 year girl is the way to disaster, who knows.
LifeSavour
01-08-08, 07:42
.......A good apartment outside of the center in Kiev will cost around 1k/month. .......But that's just me.. But you can find Euro 3 rooms in a new building with new furniture, good design, all 'technics' (appliances), close to metro (20 minutes from center) for $800 max! Just don't do any intitial looking, contacting yourself. Have a 'local' set it all up!
Benefits of living away from center and riding metro / transport. Daily contact with REAL ladies (women / girls). Not the QUEENS. They are so much more FUN, easier to please, AND TRY to please you with more ENERGY!
LS Guy
LifeSavour
01-08-08, 07:48
For the last 3 nights I had great (almost unbelievable!) sex with a bisexual duo (semipros). They offer me exclusive sponsorship for 1000 each. If I had been living in Kiev I would go for it:). But a total of 2000 is too much when I only visit now and then:). However, these are very sweet, simple student girls from outside Kiev, actually I believe them when they say it would be exclusive, they just want to study and have a decent life. But who knows?"I want to SMOKE the same stuff that allows any fawker to really think ANY UKR Sponsored gal will be Exclusive! "
Unless you are with them 100% of 24/7. They will have others!
Ls guy
i see that things become gradually more difficult due to the eagerness of westerners to pay,or spoil the girls any way possible.i remember 4 years ago it was enough to meet a girl in a club and buy a bottle of odessa shampagne with 5$ in the club.you could keep the girl and her friends happy by that.
then you started to need more than one dates.then the dates became expensive with diners etc.now the girls ask for expensive presents as well.and the foreigners give them money on top.even presents for pros.
i wonder why westerners complain about the women behaviour in the west if they themselves are such s... wanting to provide everything.with so many of them around,how could western women be different?
to come back it seems to me ridiculous to pay for plane ticket,accomodation and dates expenses and then to have to buy presents and give money to girls as well.if it goes on,i guess the girls will claim a car or an apartment as present from the first hour of date.why such a total submission to pussy?
i was charged in the forum for spoiling girls when i bought them mobile phones in two cases in order to speed up things due to lack of time.and here i see a lot more being paid by others without any objection.or some think it is better to get an elitist situation in kiev where only some ''selected'' will have access to girls?
if this goes on,maybe it is time to change playground.
I can't believe what I read: western men willing to marry prostitutes or sponsored girls, even though they are perfectly aware that these *****s are with them only because of their bank accounts!
That is a sample of the emotional despair that most men in Western europe or the USA are in. It is a very SAD situation indeed!
Maybe I can suggest some way out of this despair?
If you want sex, you are conscious that these women want you only because of your money, and you go along with it, then EE is ok.
But if you want a loving wife, raised to have decent, honest values who will respect you no matter what your financial situation is, you should look in moslem countries. In those countries it is perfectly acceptable for a 40-55 year old man to marry a young girl. All you have to do is find out who her parents are, where she lives and go meet her dad and ask for his daughter hand.
You will then marry a young, pretty virgin who has never set a foot in a disco in her life, doesn smoke and wiil be devoted to you!
So, if you want to marry or have a serious relation, forget about Ukraine, russia or any other EE country.
Instead, head to Turkey, Morocco, Egypt, Syria or Lebanon.
And, once you find your ideal women, don't forget to thank me.
Explorer69
01-08-08, 19:55
"I want to SMOKE the same stuff that allows any fawker to really think ANY UKR Sponsored gal will be Exclusive! "
Unless you are with them 100% of 24/7. They will have others!
Ls guyMen are different and girls are different! With some it works, with others not! It is right to be highly suspicious, but honestly: not all girls want to fuck everything that moves - in contrast to most/all (?) guys?
Hats off for Hecker. Bravo about your report. Give it 1 more year maximum before Ukraine becomes another EX pussy-paradise!
This is exactly what happened in Estonia, Latvia, Rumania and other EE countries now part of the European Union.
I am so saddened and angry when I read about 2000$ being an acceptable sum to sponsor a girl.
Poor pussy-starved western men pushed to despair by their own women behaviour, who will give the shirt off their back for a young girl's attention.
OK. Just keep ruining country after country until you push all of us to become full time wankers!
Explorer69
01-08-08, 20:08
i see that things become gradually more difficult due to the eagerness of westerners to pay,o spoil the girls any way possible.i remember 4 years ago it was enough to meet a girl in a club and buy a bottle of odessa shampagne with 5$ in the club.you could keep the girl and her friends happy by that.
then you started to need more than one dates.then the dates became expensive with diners etc.now the girls ask for expensive presents as well.and the foreigners give them money on top.even presents for pros.
i wonder why westerners complain about the women behaviour in the west if they themselves are such s... wanting to provide everything.with so many of them around,how could western women be different?
to come back it seems to me ridiculous to pay for plane ticket,accomodation and dates expenses and then to have to buy presents and give money to girls as well.if it goes on,i guess the girls will claim a car or an apartment as present from the first hour of date.why such a total submission to pussy?
i was charged in the forum for spoiling girls when i bought them mobile phones in two cases in order to speed up things due to lack of time.and here i see a lot more being paid by others without any objection.or some think it is better to get an elitist situation in kiev where only some ''selected'' will have access to girls?
if this goes on,maybe it is time to change playground.the big majority of girls are paid by ukrainians, there are many, many times as many horny and wealthy local guys as foreigners in kiev. and the locals are more attractive for the girls because they stay on in kiev. and inside, all these girls are looking for somebody to take care of them longterm. for a girl to be with the average westerner who is in kiev for 1 week to get pussy, for sucking his dick, she wants to suck his wallet even harder, because that's all he can give her - in a few days he will disappear.
it is an increasing amount of well-off locals that are most important for price increase. and this group is rapidly increasing...
Reiner Otto
01-08-08, 23:44
I have heard several stories from girls about girlfriends getting married to somebody they met in River Palace! Even better: An acquaintance of mine is married to a pro from UA, who came to Germany to work permanently in a sex club. Now they are already married for 10 years, having 2 children.
I still remember, that one evening I went into the sex club, and wanted to have sex with her. And she refused, telling me, it was her last day, and that she would marry.
A few months later, I met her on the street by chance in my town, and we had a cup of coffee, when her fresh husband showed up. He never asked me, why/how I knew his wife ...
We still have some contact, serious contact only !
I even deliver presents to her family in UA from time to time, when I am there on a trip.
I will accept bets, that she is clean since her wedding !
PS: She even does not make a real secret out of her past.
This would not be possible anyway, because we are living in quite a small city.
You guys must be crazy. Why don't you find just a girl, not pussy for sale? I just dont understand, why its more preferable for you to pay for fuck? Sometimes maybe this is easiest way, but how do you feel yourself?
I’m actually from Crimea, sorry for mistakes in my English.
You guys must be crazy. Why don't you find just a girl, not pussy for sale? I just dont understand, why its more preferable for you to pay for fuck? Sometimes maybe this is easiest way, but how do you feel yourself?
I’m actually from Crimea, sorry for mistakes in my English.
Bez Bezarra
01-09-08, 02:50
things become gradually more difficult due to eagerness of westerners to pay,or spoil girls.
I wonder why westerners want to provide
to be different?
its ridiculous to pay for plane ticket?
I was charged for spoiling girls and I see more being paid by others without any objection.
maybe its time to change playground.
Look everyone, things are ALWAYS gonna get tougher EVERYWHERE. That's just what happens, you know? Worrying about whose fault it is, is like a bunch of little whining sukas. :rolleyes:
Its just not, how you keep saying, "westerners" want to provide this and that. We happen to be successful, and we wish to share our good fortune with a few nice ladies that live in a place where its not so easy to get by.
If it bugs you that this is why we're different, or that our choice is to help out russian girls instead of some other girls, then you need to just get over yourself already. :p
And yeah dumb ass, we pay for plane tickets. :cool:
Look HECK, we ALL object when fools with TOO MUCH money to burn over-do it, but how many of us are really gonna be there for a whole month with the same girl?? Any girl that would be THAT HOT, would certainly be too popular to be exclusive, I mean, come on!
Its ALWAYS time to change playgrounds.
Doctor_Skank
01-09-08, 07:52
I remember 4 years ago it was enough to meet a girl in a club and buy a bottle of Odessa shampagne with 5$ in the club.You could keep the girl and her friends happy by that.
Then you started to need more than one dates.Then the dates became expensive with diners etc.Now the girls ask for expensive presents as well.And the foreigners give them money on top.Even presents for pros.
If this goes on,maybe it is time to change playground.
Hecker you are certainly right that overpaying foreigners are part of the problem, particularly in places like Kiev or Odessa where many foreigners travel to get Ukrainian girls.
But does that explain why girls in places which are almost devoid of foreigners like Kharkov and Donetsk are also not happy anymore with a bottle of $5 champagne for her and her friends?
Times are changing, the economy is better in Ukraine, the locals have more money and most importantly girls realise that "escaping Ukraine with a foreigner" is not their only option for a happy life.
Essentially it is easy as it always was to get laid in Ukraine, the superficial costs are just higher. C'est la vie.
1200$ a month to live in provincial Ukraine sounds to me exaggerated.Most families make ends meet by 500-600$ per month,including expenses for more than one children and expenses of husband.Do not be surprised if she uses the extra 700$ to buy expensive clothes,make up,perfumes in order to improve her appearance and find a new husband.
It seems foreigners have started to spoil province after Kiev girls have become more expensive.
Can you blame girls for wanting to look more stylish and nicer looking? They all have MTV, they all read fashion magazines, they all have their own Ukrainian and Russian pop idols and all girls want to live happy successful lives... and they need money to support this lifestyle. It often impresses me how good they can make themselves look on a limited budget. They can make a $80 outfit look like a $300 one.
Besides that, their phones get stolen every 3 months and they need to keep replacing them, they go to cafes to chat with their girlfriends everyday and there is that holiday in Turkey to save up for... )
I compare their demands to them of other EE countries and it seems that Ukraine's advantage in quality and quantity of available girls tends to decrease.The last year I brought three gorgeous czech girls to spend one week with me,one girl after the other.I paid only for hotel and meals,they paid for the plane ticket and some casual expenses,breakfasts,etc.They also paid for the presents they bought for their friends.These girls are of model quality superior to anything that is available to foreigner in provincial Ukraine.
They did not have attitude,were always available,did not have ups and downs in mood and were very reasonable and down to earth.I have about 10 czech girlfriends like that who may have boyfriends in CR but like to come to me once a year.So the point is why is Ukraine better?
I will try to make a social-economical approach.In my opinion the availability of girls has to do with income distribution.Ukraine is a place with large income inequalities.The girls are eager to live high life.In the past the only ones who could provide this opportunity were the foreigners.So you had as many girls as you wanted.Half of girls were available.Now when the income increased from 45$ per month in 1999 to 300$ per month in 2008 and in Kiev from 100$ to 500$,the shadow economy and income inequality has produced a lot of rich Ukrainians who have the favour of girls in first place.The foreigners are not needed as in the past.Less girls are available.
2 years ago in province you could have
1.A girlfriend
2.A future wife
3.A sponsored girl
4.A girl for one night stand who only wanted to try the exotic foreigner maybe hoping for future reltionships or presents but nothing in advance.
Now the fouth possibility almost does not exist anymore.Girls do not fall in bed without belonging to category girlfriend(long term relationship),fiancee or sponsored.So a crucial advantage of Ukraine has vanished.I believe the girls of the fourth category choose rich Ukrainians now because it is a better future investment than the foreigner.
Let's take countries like CR.There you can have
1.A girlfriend
2.A sponsored girl
3.A fuckbody.
The concept of fuckbody does not exist in Ukraine but is prominent in CR.The fourth possibility(exotic foreigner) vanished in CR a long time ago but the fuckbody possibility remains.Because of relative equality of incomes the proportion of rich is likely lower than in Ukraine which tends to make the foreigner have the same desirability in some cases.
Then we come to two more possibilities.Belarus and Transdnistria.
Advantage of Belarus over Ukraine:Almost same wages(350$ per month now officially in Belarus) but relative equality of income distribution which means not so many rich,supposedely leading to foreigners being more desirable in local women's eyes.Not so much hidden economy to create oligarchs.So in my opinion before 2005 Belarus was worse than Ukraine due to higher expectations of ukrainian girls which could be fulfilled only by foreigners.The inequality of incomes was good then.
Now it is very likely that Belarus is better than Ukraine in picking up freebies due to relative equality of incomes which means that less girls are hooked up by local rich men.Also there is smaller percentage of foreigners.
Advantage of Transdnistria:The lowest wages in Europe.Only 50$ per month,which means very low expenses needed.Wages in Tiraspol 10 times lower than in Kiev,it would be ideal if the population was larger.
Appearance of girls slightly better in Ukraine but in my opinion that does not compensate(while the better appearance of girls in CR over other slavic girls compensates a lot for the higher wages).
That is what I meant maybe it is time to change playground.I will travel there and describe the differences.
Hats off for Hecker. Bravo about your report. Give it 1 more year maximum before Ukraine becomes another EX pussy-paradise!
This is exactly what happened in Estonia, Latvia, Rumania and other EE countries now part of the European Union.
I am so saddened and angry when I read about 2000$ being an acceptable sum to sponsor a girl.
Poor pussy-starved western men pushed to despair by their own women behaviour, who will give the shirt off their back for a young girl's attention.
OK. Just keep ruining country after country until you push all of us to become full time wankers! Nolies, I am sorry but situation in Ukraine has nothing to do with EU countries. Integration into EU changes a lot of things and infrastructures, moves whole populations and redefines everything in terms of price and availability. It has a bomb like effect. Nothing like that has yet happened in Ukraine.
If we suppose that tomorrow Ukraine enters EU, the situation will worsen in short time. It is simple why. All the good looking girls who did not find wealthy husband will move to work abroad where opportunities are a lot more. Hordes of sex tourists coming by cheap flights will overwhelm Kiev changing attitude of local girls and availability forever. These can happen only after Ukraine enters EU, not now. Now Ukraine has no infrastructure to deal with massive tourism, it is considered by average tourist an overpriced shithole. There are no cheap flights, no cheap accomodation, no local help, nothing to make massive tourism comfortable.
And young ukrainian girls still have it very difficult when they try to obtain vis to travel abroad because the authorities regard them as trafficked prostitutes and deny visa in the majority of cases giving to a little percentage after delay and masses of paper work. So the girls are still confined within the country, they cannot escape, no relation to EU environment.
DJ FourMoney
01-09-08, 12:40
Hoe's can make GREAT HOUSEWIVES, contrary to the usual thinking. Honestly I think its MEN who are/were serial daters who are less trust-worthy in long term relationships.
I know from personal experience, the town hoe married one of my homies and HE left HER and cheated on HER, not the other way around.
Women, even sex workers are still women wishing for a long term loving relationships. The model types/queens are only interested in finding a rich man to take care of their fiscal needs FIRSTLY.
How can a girl give you GFE if you treat her properly and not want that ulimately?? That wouldn't make sense...
A harden pro who has lost her faith in finding a man to accept her past are the women most of you generally complain about. The others just don't like their job.
All too often sex workers are taken advantaged of by their dirt bag husbands and boyfriends.
I don't understand why its sooo amazing to Heckler and Nolies that Explorer could have married one of his sponsored women and it more than likely wouldn't have turned into a disaster.
I think Explorer is more concerned about public perception of the age difference especially if he's from the US, which I believe he is.
Many rich men marry former porn stars, sex workers and strippers, have kids and live happily ever-after, maybe they know something we don't????
Bez Bezarra
01-09-08, 13:00
I brought gorgeous czech girls to me. I paid only for hotel and meals, they paid for plane ticket.They paid for the presents.
The girls are model quality superior to anything in provincial Ukraine.
I have 10 czech girls like that who come to me.
This is not mongering. This is what rock stars and film stars and sports stars do. Very surprised you don't own your OWN chain of hotels, to just keep stocked with your OWN personal collection of models, to be at your OWN beck and call for your personal service.
Are you sure you are not Conrad Hilton, or Mr. Hyatt? :p
This is not mongering. This is what rock stars and film stars and sports stars do. Very surprised you don't own your OWN chain of hotels, to just keep stocked with your OWN personal collection of models, to be at your OWN beck and call for your personal service.
Are you sure you are not Conrad Hilton, or Mr. Hyatt? :pI wish I were a hotel owner.Then my peronell would be carefully selected and passed all quality controls.
Explorer69
01-09-08, 13:55
Hoe's can make GREAT HOUSEWIVES, contrary to the usual thinking. Honestly I think its MEN who are/were serial daters who are less trust-worthy in long term relationships.
Women, even sex workers are still women wishing for a long term loving relationships. The model types/queens are only interested in finding a rich man to take care of their fiscal needs FIRSTLY.
A harden pro who has lost her faith in finding a man to accept her past are the women most of you generally complain about. The others just don't like their job.
All too often sex workers are taken advantaged of by their dirt bag husbands and boyfriends.
I don't understand why its sooo amazing to Heckler and Nolies that Explorer could have married one of his sponsored women and it more than likely wouldn't have turned into a disaster.
I think Explorer is more concerned about public perception of the age difference especially if he's from the US, which I believe he is.I completely agree with this, a sex worker may potentially be a great wife for somebody that accepts her past. Basicly they just want to meet a nice man and settle down. But maybe too often they don't meet the right guys, end up with dirtbags?
And a lot of the girls we meet in Ukraine are still only semipros or quite normal girls doing a trick now and then. I would not really call them "sex workers", but it is a question of definition? Some people will say that once you have received money for sex, then you are a sex worker. I personally disagree on that.
I have some problems with public perception if I come with a 20 year old girl, yes, but that was not the main reason. I honestly think that an age gap of 30 years - combined with the cultural differences - is a road to disaster. And the rock/film stars who marry a hot girl 30 year their junior also divorce quite frequently although a lot of millions may to some degree compensate for the big age gap - make a bridge over the gap, LOL?!
However, this is not the forum to discuss pro et contra regarding Ukraine women or sex workers for wives, I just say I am sceptic to too large age differences...
Doctor_Skank
01-09-08, 16:01
The last year I brought three gorgeous czech girls to spend one week with me,one girl after the other.I paid only for hotel and meals,they paid for the plane ticket and some casual expenses,breakfasts,etc.They also paid for the presents they bought for their friends.These girls are of model quality superior to anything that is available to foreigner in provincial Ukraine.
They did not have attitude,were always available,did not have ups and downs in mood and were very reasonable and down to earth.I have about 10 czech girlfriends like that who may have boyfriends in CR but like to come to me once a year.So the point is why is Ukraine better?
I tend to agree with Bez... why in the hell are you even worried about what's happening in Ukraine if you've got a dozen Czech models to bang for virtually free? )))
Oh, and pics pleeeeeezzzz...
LifeSavour
01-10-08, 08:16
Men are different and girls are different! With some it works, with others not! It is right to be highly suspicious, but honestly: not all girls want to fuck everything that moves - in contrast to most/all (?) guys?
. Yes there are girls that want to be TRUE-BLUE to their mate! But they are not the ones taking $$ for an ass fucking! Sponsored girls are there first and foremost for the $$$ 'goni-bubki' (show me the $$$)! Take away the $ and they are gone!
They also know that at any moment you might take away the $, so they are always LOOKING for another deal, better deal. Nothing differant than when you book 3 girls for 1 time slot!
It is in the Ukrainian blood line. "fuck anybody (cheat, steal, scam, etc.) at any time" This is an INSTICT they constantly have to fight to remain 'GOOD'!
LS Guy
I tend to agree with Bez... why in the hell are you even worried about what's happening in Ukraine if you've got a dozen Czech models to bang for virtually free? )))
Oh, and pics pleeeeeezzzz...I worry about what's happening in every country.What happens in one,influences the situation in the others.
You put me into temptation to show pics although EU girls are more likely to navigate the internet and find out the stuff.
I can't believe what I read: western men willing to marry prostitutes or sponsored girls, even though they are perfectly aware that these *****s are with them only because of their bank accounts!
That is a sample of the emotional despair that most men in Western europe or the USA are in. It is a very SAD situation indeed!
Maybe I can suggest some way out of this despair?
If you want sex, you are conscious that these women want you only because of your money, and you go along with it, then EE is ok.
But if you want a loving wife, raised to have decent, honest values who will respect you no matter what your financial situation is, you should look in moslem countries. In those countries it is perfectly acceptable for a 40-55 year old man to marry a young girl. All you have to do is find out who her parents are, where she lives and go meet her dad and ask for his daughter hand.
You will then marry a young, pretty virgin who has never set a foot in a disco in her life, doesn smoke and wiil be devoted to you!
So, if you want to marry or have a serious relation, forget about Ukraine, russia or any other EE country.
Instead, head to Turkey, Morocco, Egypt, Syria or Lebanon.
And, once you find your ideal women, don't forget to thank me.
What a load of bolloxs.
EE girls make great wifes.
A girl with some experience is worse than one with none?
I have never been shown so much devotion as I have been when I have dated EE girls, yes some can me money grabbing but on the whole they like to be women and be treated as such, and when you do they treat you as a king.
And as for girls in Lebanon perhaps they dont tell their new husbands but boy do they fuck around........... before they are married, and my pal who is pakistani also says most of the country girls there have had some also.
Dream on my friend......................................
Orange Leo
01-10-08, 16:51
EE girls make great wifes.Them who sell address of EE gals will say that. I know to two exsample of men who live more happy life with the woman they have met by social life then the Ukraine girl live with earlier.
AColonizer
01-10-08, 18:17
These last reports are great reports! Thank you guys! Somebody could write a book about real life, girls and the mongering challenge from this forum.
I quote just the below post. Before to know some hardcore prostitutes, I could agree with DJ, but after I had some deep experiences with longtime prostitutes, now I completely disagree with DJ and I explain with just few words: prostitutes, who had started "rabota" since child age, are not women anymore and they are lost people because every centimetre of their body, every thought of their brain and every action of their behaviour are oriented to money only. In fact hardcore prostitutes think about themselves like sex machines and not like normal girls. This is real truth and all the rest is just our romantic illusion.
It is not true "A harden pro who has lost her faith in finding a man to accept her past are the women most of you generally complain about. The others just don't like their job. " because longtime prostitutes usually had got dozens of males, good and bad lovers, but, for some scientific reasons, they prefer to have fucked by rude men and their next pimps. Of course these men cheat them but they prefer this kind of men.
It is true " Many rich men marry former porn stars, sex workers and strippers, have kids and live happily ever-after, maybe they know something we don't? ", I told the same matter and there is a scientific reason: longtime prostitutes' life purpose is to live wealthy and workless. When they are too old or too annoyed for "rabota", they choice a rich man to live together at least for some years. Sometimes they change rich men again and again. Sometimes they come back to "rabota" ten or twenty years later.
In my opinion, a lot of hardcore prostitutes could be wives better than normal girls, apart from their trouble mindset. People usually disagree about my opinion because people usually don't like to risk their life for somebody else. In my opinion, the problem, about marrying longtime prostitutes, is about how to manage them because it is like to manage a crazy mustang or a wild tigress and it seems just pimps know to manage them.
Hoe's can make GREAT HOUSEWIVES, contrary to the usual thinking. Honestly I think its MEN who are/were serial daters who are less trust-worthy in long term relationships.
I know from personal experience, the town hoe married one of my homies and HE left HER and cheated on HER, not the other way around.
Women, even sex workers are still women wishing for a long term loving relationships. The model types/queens are only interested in finding a rich man to take care of their fiscal needs FIRSTLY.
How can a girl give you GFE if you treat her properly and not want that ulimately? That wouldn't make sense.
A harden pro who has lost her faith in finding a man to accept her past are the women most of you generally complain about. The others just don't like their job.
All too often sex workers are taken advantaged of by their dirt bag husbands and boyfriends.
I don't understand why its sooo amazing to Heckler and Nolies that Explorer could have married one of his sponsored women and it more than likely wouldn't have turned into a disaster.
I think Explorer is more concerned about public perception of the age difference especially if he's from the US, which I believe he is.
Many rich men marry former porn stars, sex workers and strippers, have kids and live happily ever-after, maybe they know something we don't?
AColonizer
01-10-08, 18:30
I know former USSR Customs and habits are different from western ones. So I am curious to know why in some advertisements, prostitutes write "I shall come at your home, hotel or spa. Which kind of sex can I get in a spa?
AColonizer
01-10-08, 18:42
I reply to Nolies: yes, this is a sad situation because life is not a movie with a happy end. So don't worry, I sometimes agree with you and I remind you people need to live happy by every means.
Bez Bezarra
01-11-08, 01:10
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!
After reading a few of these posts, I gather some guys may think Ukraine isn't what it use to be; well, in my opinion, it's better than it was three yrs ago, re: the girls of course, not much else.
This is my opinion, I don't care what you do with it,
Guys, don't come here and act like an analysis, and think so much, lead with your emotions, take things here at face value, and don't get depressed by any situation here, if you do, why even come, you're defeated already. Visit this country and meet these girls with a confident-possitive attitude, show a friendly, happy face, smile, not alot, a little, strong eye contact with these girls is essential, dress in good quality clothes, chose name brands, be well groomed, if you need dental work, get it, a smile and strong eye contact go a long way. Guys, guys, don't think about these girls and the situations here so much, just come here and enjoy the place and of course the girls, I sure do. I am sure everyone here knows what I just posted, the guys who post here, I think for the most part are smart, don't show this defeatist attiutude, IMO, it's better here than it was three years ago,
Someone mentioned Ukraine guys making more money, moving in on the girls, my gosh, please cry me a river, we are talking about ukrainian guys here, don't and I repeat don't every be intimadated by the locals guys, do the girls prefer the local guys over all others, yes, why, because the language, culture, part of it, the main reason is because of one word, respect, these girls respect their men, why, because their men know how to deal with them, the men act like men around these girls, they control the relationship, and the girls want that, don't act like a wuss around these girls, she'll lose interest fast and once it's gone, its gone! Everyone knows this. Don't ever be intimadated by ukrainian guys,
I am 48 yrs old, albeit I look 25. No really, well OK 26. And a half, but that's beside the point, I am doing better now with these girls than I ever have, and they're young, attractive girls, be relaxed, lead with your emotions, be happy, friendly, confident, guys, you all know this. And don't try to analysis so much, there's nothing any one of us can do about the situations here.
After reading a few of these posts, I gather some guys may think Ukraine isn't what it use to be; well, in my opinion, it's better than it was three yrs ago, re: the girls of course, not much else.
This is my opinion, I don't care what you do with it,
Guys, don't come here and act like an analysis, and think so much, lead with your emotions, take things here at face value, and don't get depressed by any situation here, if you do, why even come, you're defeated already. Visit this country and meet these girls with a confident-possitive attitude, show a friendly, happy face, smile, not alot, a little, strong eye contact with these girls is essential, dress in good quality clothes, chose name brands, be well groomed, if you need dental work, get it, a smile and strong eye contact go a long way. Guys, guys, don't think about these girls and the situations here so much, just come here and enjoy the place and of course the girls, I sure do. I am sure everyone here knows what I just posted, the guys who post here, I think for the most part are smart, don't show this defeatist attiutude, IMO, it's better here than it was three years ago,
Someone mentioned Ukraine guys making more money, moving in on the girls, my gosh, please cry me a river, we are talking about ukrainian guys here, don't and I repeat don't every be intimadated by the locals guys, do the girls prefer the local guys over all others, yes, why, because the language, culture, part of it, the main reason is because of one word, respect, these girls respect their men, why, because their men know how to deal with them, the men act like men around these girls, they control the relationship, and the girls want that, don't act like a wuss around these girls, she'll lose interest fast and once it's gone, its gone! Everyone knows this. Don't ever be intimadated by ukrainian guys,
I am 48 yrs old, albeit I look 25. No really, well OK 26. And a half, but that's beside the point, I am doing better now with these girls than I ever have, and they're young, attractive girls, be relaxed, lead with your emotions, be happy, friendly, confident, guys, you all know this. And don't try to analysis so much, there's nothing any one of us can do about the situations here. This is the point of view of somebody who lives in Ukraine. The majority of people who come are short time travelers who can get a maximum of 20-25 days vaccation the whole year. This means that they can come only 3 times a year to spend a week in Ukraine if they spend all their vaccations this way.
These people want to have quick results, otherwise they will choose other places for vaccations where they may get them. The logistics do not work favourably for the short time traveller.
The problem is practical. Let's say you have 5 internet contacts in Lugansk, 5 in Dnipro, 10 in Kiev and 5 in Odessa. Where would you choose to travel?
If you have another 5 in Kishinev, 10 in Misnk and 5 in Gomel what will you prefer? If you make one choice you eliminate the others. The short time traveller has the advantage of flexibility while the long term resident has the advantage of logistics. If I make an estimation without analysis and go blind, I will lose time and money which could have been favourably invested in another area. It is the relative benefit that counts in comparison to alternative travel targets, not the absolute benefit which will be some, more or less wherever you go. The point is to maximize the benefit to moneyXtime ratio.
Bez Bezarra
01-12-08, 14:43
The point is a majority who come are travelers so their problem is practical.
The long term resident has the advantage to maximize the benefit to moneyXtime ratio.
ISG travelers to expats ratio is estimated by Jackson at 20 to 1.
Obviously, for practical reasons, mongering styles and what works successfully and economically, are as different as apples and oranges.
Doctor_Skank
01-12-08, 16:00
This is the point of view of somebody who lives in Ukraine. The majority of people who come are short time travelers who can get a maximum of 20-25 days vaccation the whole year. This means that they can come only 3 times a year to spend a week in Ukraine if they spend all their vaccations this way.
These people want to have quick results, otherwise they will choose other places for vaccations where they may get them. The logistics do not work favourably for the short time traveller.
If I make an estimation without analysis and go blind, I will lose time and money which could have been favourably invested in another area. It is the relative benefit that counts in comparison to alternative travel targets, not the absolute benefit which will be some, more or less wherever you go. The point is to maximize the benefit to moneyXtime ratio.
I agree, although in my opinion there are three types of monger in terms of frequency:
1) permenant resident
Obviously the first has huge advantages in terms of time, own apartment and car, building contacts and relationships, "added value" for the girls, language and understanding of culture. His disadvantage may be overexposure (in smaller towns with few venues to take girls to), social constraints (work etc.), burnout and maybe even losing the expat edge... going "native" in a bad way . Overall, he still has it the easiest by far.
2) frequent visitor
Shares the advantages of added value, building contacts and relationships, understanding of culture and language, maintains the expat edge and generally doesn't suffer much from overexposure and social constraints. He still lacks time though, and this is a major disadvantage when it comes to meeting his contacts and getting them to "pan out" for sex.
3) sex tourist
Has disadvantages in most areas, including most importantly time but almost equally important lacking a tested contact database, lacking language and often lacking cultural understanding. He also lacks "added value" unless he can come up with a good lie or offer the girl other perspectives, such as travel or cash.
Guys, don't come here and act like an analysis, and think so much, lead with your emotions, take things here at face value, and don't get depressed by any situation here, if you do, why even come, you're defeated already.
You're right that overanalyzing or applying methodology to everything isn't the necessarily the best method for all. Nonetheless for the short-term visitor... specifically the sex tourist... applying methods and analysing before arrival is important and may very well help him achieve his goal more quickly. He's only there to get laid and only has so much time, so getting blown out with nothing for 3-4 nights in a row can pretty much ruin his sex holiday. For a local or even frequent traveller, there's always next time. For the sex traveller, it's now or never.
Methods DO work, but as you said they just shouldn't be substituted for charm or what we loosely call "game".
Someone mentioned Ukraine guys making more money, moving in on the girls, my gosh, please cry me a river, we are talking about ukrainian guys here, don't and I repeat don't every be intimadated by the locals guys, do the girls prefer the local guys over all others, yes, why, because the language, culture, part of it, the main reason is because of one word, respect, these girls respect their men, why, because their men know how to deal with them, the men act like men around these girls, they control the relationship, and the girls want that, don't act like a wuss around these girls, she'll lose interest fast and once it's gone, its gone! Everyone knows this. Don't ever be intimadated by ukrainian guys,
Agreed. I think the point people are making is that 5 years ago in Ukraine there was virtually no competition, now there is. That said, there are still many more available girls than the few local players or decent guys can handle. It is still stupidly easy to get laid in EE, even if the so-called golden age has been over for some time.
As I mentioned before to sum it all up its just getting harder for the aging sexpat to get laid on the cheap in the major tourist (using that term loosely) cities. All this nonsense about not being able to approach girls in clubs or on the street is silly. I'm 39, speak about ten words of Russian and do it all the time with no problems at all. For the aging sexpat all you need to do is go to the 2nd and 3rd tier cities, sure they are crap holes, but actually so is Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Kiev.
I think you guys are also blurring being a sex tourist, a dater and a serious dater. You need to start being honest with yourself first. If like Hecker you are looking to go to the FSU to bang as many girls who are 30-40 years younger then yourself you need to start carrying a big bank. The days of walking into River Palace and choosing the the hottest girl for $100 for the night are long over. But if you put a little work into it and go to the non tourist spots things haven't change all that much. To put it diplomaticly, I think those having problems with the girls in the FSU would/or do have problems with girls everywhere.
As I mentioned before to sum it all up its just getting harder for the aging sexpat to get laid on the cheap in the major tourist (using that term loosely) cities. All this nonsense about not being able to approach girls in clubs or on the street is silly. I'm 39, speak about ten words of Russian and do it all the time with no problems at all. For the aging sexpat all you need to do is go to the 2nd and 3rd tier cities, sure they are crap holes, but actually so is Moscow, Saint Petersburg and Kiev.
I think you guys are also blurring being a sex tourist, a dater and a serious dater. You need to start being honest with yourself first. If like Hecker you are looking to go to the FSU to bang as many girls who are 30-40 years younger then yourself you need to start carrying a big bank. The days of walking into River Palace and choosing the the hottest girl for $100 for the night are long over. But if you put a little work into it and go to the non tourist spots things haven't change all that much. To put it diplomaticly, I think those having problems with the girls in the FSU would/or do have problems with girls everywhere.You guessed my age wrong. What I suggest is that in the past there was no preparation needed, you just came to Kiev, entered clubs and pulled girls. A great percentage of girls was willing, so there were no failures, maybe a little overpaying sometimes (there was always the feeling that you pay more than the real value of things in Kiev), and a short time Kiev excursion was a sum of drinking and sex with very few sleep. Indeed there was no effort needed. Now things for the short time traveller have changed dramatically, this is my point, regardless of his looks and sometimes of his wallet, even regardless of his game. Now the situation is touch and needs persistence and hardcore mongering, pulling under touch circumstances, getting over tricks, scams, accusations, competition and a lot more.
I am sure that those who brag about being able to pull in any case, if we go together a club where nobody know us and I ask them to pick up girls, they will be disappointed after 2-3 attempts and head to RP. I know that because it has happened to me many times, to see wings becoming frustrated if I do not introduce girls to them. To find the girls and focus on them needs experience and this becomes gradually harder in Kiev while it is still a bit better in province.
The short time traveller has to violate the norms, not comply with the norms. So you have to endure some kind of resistance.
I have girlfriends in Poland, CR, Belarus, so I can compare the level of difficulty and the relative attitudes. I know if a girl behaviour is normal in Ukraine, if I have to put up with her temper or if she overvalues herself. And of course I never believe what they tell about themselves. On the contrary I see many mongers believing them and write their claims as genuine.
How much time, money and attention does a girl deserve? For me the minimum one. Others sacrifice everything.
I dont agree with that..Women inUkraine are now suspicious about foreigners..Word to mouth,Newspapers , internet sites like this one and TV programs have done their share , informing them about the western SEX tourist.
Now, when you meet a girl you are confronted with a shitload of questions we didnt have to deal with before.Why are you here?How long?why you choose ukraininan girls? no women in your country?To how many girls have you told that today?where is your wife and children?And specially , the infamous:HOW OLD ARE YOU?dont you think i am a little too young for you? etc etc..
Most of the time you will be rejected in your attempts to connect with a normal young girl..unless she has the hidden agenda of depleting your bank account.
Yes, the scammers, cheaters,gold diggers, money hungry users and abusers are still there full force.
Now, if you are not ukrainian,young, good looking,dressed fashionably,and have a nice bankroll you are better off visiting the prostitutes in your own country!!
I can really only rely on my experience. I have no problems with the girls in Kiev or anywhere else in the Ukraine. I think a lot has to do about the way people go about things. An older guy looking to fuck a bunch of young Ukrainian girls (for 'free') generally tends to attract scammers because he is a scammer himself. It's all about Karma.
Hecker, I'm not singling you out. Just using you as a example. You aren't in your 50's, that is surprising.
I can really only rely on my experience. I have no problems with the girls in Kiev or anywhere else in the Ukraine. I think a lot has to do about the way people go about things. An older guy looking to fuck a bunch of young Ukrainian girls (for 'free') generally tends to attract scammers because he is a scammer himself. It's all about Karma.
Hecker, I'm not singling you out. Just using you as a example. You aren't in your 50's, that is surprising.How can you conclude the man's age by what he writes? For me it is surprising. An older guy of course will attract scammers but he is not scammer because he is willing to pay. A young guy can also attract some scammers. And scammers usually search for non-scammers, anyway why is that so important? Yes, it is almost inevitable for every short time traveller to go through some scammers because they exist and he cannot guess they are scammers due to lack of experience.
Only one time I met an american girl, she was very good looking, young from NYC with high paying job and she called me cute, paid my part for dates as well etc. So I do not consider myself bad looking and I do not understand why it is always imperative to pay for the girl and not the opposite.
O. K. In Ukraine the tradition says that the man does all the expenses and I accept that. However there is a fine line between normal dates expenses and exaggerated expenses for her girlfriends, presents etc. This is not justified by the tradition in my opinion. It seems more like rip off.
I do not like Kiev generally, I am more attracted to province. Kiev is very easy and smooth, there is no irritation and hardness. Very smooth attitude from girls, province is a wild horse but this horse has become very obnoxious in the last years. I read a site by people who travel to Ukraine mainly for marriage fiance.com and they have reached the same conclusions. I feel sorry for them because what was a short time adventure for me was a whole life sadness for them. They went through the same things, willing to sacrifice a lot more and ended miserable. All say the same.
No doubt that Ukraine still looks rather good comparing to West countries. What has been reduced is the gap between Ukraine and other EE countries in women availability/cost.
East, West, South, North girls are the same every where. The differences are just superficial. In the FSU girls tend to be slender and dress stylish, sexy, feminine.
As far as your age, was I right? :)
Sevastopol1
01-15-08, 10:55
With respect you are showing your complete mis-understanding of this site and the FSU
Regards
I dont agree with that..Women inUkraine are now suspicious about foreigners..Word to mouth,Newspapers , internet sites like this one and TV programs have done their share , informing them about the western SEX tourist.
Now, when you meet a girl you are confronted with a shitload of questions we didnt have to deal with before.Why are you here?How long?why you choose ukraininan girls? no women in your country?To how many girls have you told that today?where is your wife and children?And specially , the infamous:HOW OLD ARE YOU?dont you think i am a little too young for you? etc etc..
Most of the time you will be rejected in your attempts to connect with a normal young girl..unless she has the hidden agenda of depleting your bank account.
Yes, the scammers, cheaters,gold diggers, money hungry users and abusers are still there full force.
Now, if you are not ukrainian,young, good looking,dressed fashionably,and have a nice bankroll you are better off visiting the prostitutes in your own country!!
These questions Nolies suggests actually take place. They are shit tests, you have to go through them by providing a proper answer. They still view the foreigner with respect though not as in the past when the foreigner was absolutely admired. In the West the game is run by the bad boys who know how to manipulate women. So a nice guy gets a behaviour from women which he thinks he does not deserve. He does not understand what is wrong with him.
When the nice guy travels to Ukraine, he is popular. He sees that the same qualities which made him look boring in the eyes of western women bring him success among ukrainian women. So he concludes that western women are wrong and not that he is responsible for that. Maybe he will see himself as a kind of Cassanova.
Truth is bad guys do not hit EE in the same amount as nice guys do cause bad guys are commited by a plentiful of relationships in their countries. If bad guys decided to travel to EE, their success would be considerably greater than this of nice guys. They are simply absent, so nice guys make theories about different mentality of ukrainian women who want providers,nice men etc.
In western Europe you need to use cocky and funny because the girls have been exposed to a lot of things and need constant stimulation. The usual, causal conversation seems boring to them. They want something else.
Contrary to that ukrainian girls are happy with the usual, casual conversation. Cocky and funny freaks them out and makes them lose trust.
For example if you ask a western girl, what is your favourite music, she will be bored quickly cause she hears about music and hits all the time. This question is legitimate and favourably accepted by an ukrainian girl. If you ask a western girl, do you like adventure or romance, her pupils will dilate and will look at you in a different way. If you ask the same question to an ukrainian girl, she will get confused, and maybe will become angry and violenst starting tests and accusations.
So a guy who does not use cocky and funny and carries out simple, straight conversations will be successful in Ukraine because the girls will add the complexity level to his words that is needed to make them interesting.
The same guy in the West will pass out as totally boring because the girls do not give to his words any extra meaning and are looking for stimulants they cannot usually find.
This is some kind of subjective analysis, how things work from the individual perspective while the objective statistical analysis examines the boundaries and possibilities which constitute the whole frame.
Hecker, if you are still asking girls what kind of music they like you need to stop picking them up at McDonalds or the local secondary schools.
I got confused if you were saying there are or are not 'bad guys' in the FSU. If you are saying there are not you are wrong. In Kiev just about any foreigner who is their long term without a legit job is up to no good - well, except for me. :)
Hecker, if you are still asking girls what kind of music they like you need to stop picking them up at McDonalds or the local secondary schools.
I got confused if you were saying there are or are not 'bad guys' in the FSU. If you are saying there are not you are wrong. In Kiev just about any foreigner who is their long term without a legit job is up to no good - well, except for me. :)I always ask the same questions and judge the availability by their response. Everybody turns to womanizer if he enters Ukraine. It is not what I mean by bad guys.
Bad guys are womanizers in the West as well and see things in a different perspective.
Hecker, if you are still asking girls what kind of music they like you need to stop picking them up at McDonalds or the local secondary schools.
I got confused if you were saying there are or are not 'bad guys' in the FSU. If you are saying there are not you are wrong. In Kiev just about any foreigner who is their long term without a legit job is up to no good - well, except for me. :)
I read here reports about these locations. Could you give us more details about the scene in these places? Prices, service, ages and risks?
I have had good experiences in the main street there in Kiev, but mostly with streetwalkers and not during the winter time. The prices and services were OK for me, UAH 300 for 3 hours and 2 shots all inclusive. Sorry no photos because the lady told me she is a teacher (?)
Any advice is welcome for my next trip
Explorer69
01-16-08, 00:06
Isn't this boring discussion getting far away from the purpose of this forum?
Let's get back to basics:)!
Last night, during my usual tuesday night sampling vodka with some of the donbass boys, our conversation went to how good looking the girls are in Ukraine.
The general discussion went in the direction that the guys here think the girls are ok looking but girls from other countries are hotter.
The countries that came up where Hungary, Czech and even bloody England!
Its made me think that perhaps we all look at different countries girls with envious eyes and look to home for the normal and boring?
Anyway off we went to a banya and ordered a six girl takeaway and I must admit I personally still think Ukraine has the best looking and most diverse looking girls in the world.
I dont think there is a single Ukrainian look, and thank god for that.
I love this country....................
Qjump, just how many Vodkas did the boys have Tuesday night? ;-)
Last night, during my usual tuesday night sampling vodka with some of the donbass boys, our conversation went to how good looking the girls are in Ukraine.
but girls from other countries are hotter..... and even bloody England!
I love this country....................
Last night, during my usual Tuesday night sampling vodka with some of the donbass boys, our conversation went to how good looking the girls are in Ukraine.
The general discussion went in the direction that the guys here think the girls are ok looking but girls from other countries are hotter.
The countries that came up where Hungary, Czech and even bloody England! Its made me think that perhaps we all look at different countries girls with envious eyes and look to home for the normal and boring?
Anyway off we went to a banya and ordered a six girl takeaway and I must admit I personally still think Ukraine has the best looking and most diverse looking girls in the world.
I don't think there is a single Ukrainian look, and thank god for that. I love this country. I agree there is a lot of diversity in Ukraine.
In West Ukraine girls look like polish. If you put the girls from Lvov in Krakow and the opposite, nobody will notice the difference. It is exactly the same look, that of southern Poland.
In Rovno they look more like belarus from south-west Belarus, a different kind of look. In Ternopil they start to look less polish and more ethnic ukrainian, let's say polish 60-70%.
After Kamenec Podolsky typical Kiev look predominates.
In Uzghorod they look like hungarian girls.
In Cernivtsi they resemble moldovan girls.
In Dnipro, Donbass different look, shorter than in the West and more russian than polish.
Kiev the center of all mixes. Girls looking more like western ukrainian due to heavy immigration recently.
In Mariupol they look like mediteranean girls because there were greeks before Ukrainians.
In Crimea they also have mediteranean but also certain russian and Tatar mix. Different variety of girls.
Unique odessan look caused by common population arrivals between Black Sea nations.
Girls in Kharkov almost russian.
Exceptional beauty in Lugansk, certain russian influence but also unique genes in the region maybe of Kossaks.
So a marvel combination, almost a different kind of eye candy in every region.
For people who are bored despite all these variations.
Czech girls, one of the best slavic mixes. There it is slavic-german producing amazing, first class beauties.
Slovakia with the absolutely stunning slovak-hungarian mix. These are world champions, model agencies recruit in these countries.
Serbia with the bombing slavic-mediteranean look that leaves you with the mouth open salivating. The tallest girls in Europe with faces like italian women. People get crazy for them.
And of course the polish sweet and the russian myth with its thousand variations as well by tatar, asian, western, skandinavian mix (in Latvia).
There is no way to complete the map of the superb slavic phenotypes.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Qjump, just how many Vodkas did the boys have Tuesday night? ;-)
If I was to tell you one of the party has a vodka factory you get the idea ;o)
I could not believe one of them said England! perhaps it was to make me feel better?
AColonizer
01-17-08, 16:05
In your opinion, what is the best time to find more fuckable girls in kiev? During school season, summer season, national holiday or when?
In your opinion, what is the best time to find more fuckable girls in kiev? During school season, summer season, national holiday or when?This is an issue more or less known to mongers.Summer from July till August is not good because many girls are on vaccations in resorts like Crimea,Turkey,Egypt and Bulgaria.There are also many tourists in Kiev.
University season is the right option even during exams.(not taken very seriously in Ukraine where most sudents pay for the degree or cheat or have already passed by having attended lessons).
Personally I avoid the months from November to February due to excessive cold which makes sarging in streets painful.Do not be surprised if some mongers prefer this period exactly due to less competition.
Another problem in Kiev.Because of many exhibitions taking place in spring it is sometimes impossible to find any single accomodation in spring months.It seems for monges and proffessionals kiev is popular at the same period.
Explorer69
01-17-08, 20:02
In your opinion, what is the best time to find more fuckable girls in kiev? During school season, summer season, national holiday or when?The answer is: always!
Bez Bezarra
01-18-08, 05:00
is the best time to fuck a girl in kiev school, summer, holiday or when?
actually, it was the holiday at the end of school to kick off the summer.
anybody remember the little fountains in the main square before all the construction changed everything? in the 90's, and just up to 9/11. once a year, every may, on the last thursday, starting from about noon, all around the fountains, hundreds and then thousands of girls would come and start drinking lots and lots of beer. they'd all be laughing and screaming and throwing each other into the fountains and tearing off their clothes. this would just keep getting crazier and crazier and go on into the night, until when it would get very very late, at like 4 o'clock in the morning, you could still hear virgins screaming being de-flowered as their hymens were getting ripped.
the kind of old cossack tradition that made you proud to have russian blood (which is 50% beer, and 60% wodka) flowing through your veins.
anyway, that was then, and this is now. now its a stupid fucking shopping mall, oh boy, how exciting!! we get to buy fancy expensive crap! gee, this is so much better than girls getting drunk! well, thanks alot for fucking nothing, grapefruit face!
now you need to go to tashkent for that old style simpler life of debauchery.
Doctor_Skank
01-18-08, 08:06
actually, it was the holiday at the end of school to kick off the summer.
anybody remember the little fountains in the main square before all the construction changed everything? in the 90's, and just up to 9/11. once a year, every may, on the last thursday, starting from about noon, all around the fountains, hundreds and then thousands of girls would come and start drinking lots and lots of beer. they'd all be laughing and screaming and throwing each other into the fountains and tearing off their clothes. this would just keep getting crazier and crazier and go on into the night, until when it would get very very late, at like 4 o'clock in the morning, you could still hear virgins screaming being de-flowered as their hymens were getting ripped.
the kind of old cossack tradition that made you proud to have russian blood (which is 50% beer, and 60% wodka) flowing through your veins.
anyway, that was then, and this is now. now its a stupid fucking shopping mall, oh boy, how exciting!! we get to buy fancy expensive crap! gee, this is so much better than girls getting drunk! well, thanks alot for fucking nothing, grapefruit face!
now you need to go to tashkent for that old style simpler life of debauchery.
i officially nominate this as "best post ever"!!!
the haunting screams of deflowered virgins still cause me to wake up in a cold sweat of lustful guilt.
actually, it was the holiday at the end of school to kick off the summer.
anybody remember the little fountains in the main square before all the construction changed everything? in the 90's, and just up to 9/11. once a year, every may, on the last thursday, starting from about noon, all around the fountains, hundreds and then thousands of girls would come and start drinking lots and lots of beer. they'd all be laughing and screaming and throwing each other into the fountains and tearing off their clothes. this would just keep getting crazier and crazier and go on into the night, until when it would get very very late, at like 4 o'clock in the morning, you could still hear virgins screaming being de-flowered as their hymens were getting ripped.
the kind of old cossack tradition that made you proud to have russian blood (which is 50% beer, and 60% wodka) flowing through your veins.
anyway, that was then, and this is now. now its a stupid fucking shopping mall, oh boy, how exciting!! we get to buy fancy expensive crap! gee, this is so much better than girls getting drunk! well, thanks alot for fucking nothing, grapefruit face!
now you need to go to tashkent for that old style simpler life of debauchery.
tashkent, you say? hmm...
Bez Bezzara makes fun of the situation but he knows as well that things have become more difficult.
Especially for the short time traveller who can come to Ukraine 2-3 times a year for a limited amount of time things are much more difficult.
Personally I bed one girl every 3 days I stay in Ukraine.If I stay 7 days I will bed 2 girls,if 10 3 girls etc but this is because I speak some russian enough to communicate with non-english speaking girls and because I have experience and I talk to 20-30 random girls every day on streets,clubs etc which is difficult for the usual monger to do.
Apart from internet contacts if you are short time traveller you need to pick up in clubs,street,cafes,you should not let a minute without trying because you are under time pressure.Even when eating you should check the place for possible targets.It has to become an obsession,most people do not like to suffer but no pain no gain.
Most women need 7 hours on average to be with them before they let you bang them.So if every date lasts 2 hours you will need at least 3 dates in order to complete the time being together with the girl.Many times a short time traveller does not even manage to get third date due to lack of time.
The other possibility is to stay with the girl.In this case you avoid heavy expenses and banging is guaranteed but you have to withdraw mostly from the options of dating simultaneously other girls.
Time is an important issue and you always have to eliminate its significance.I try to be above time,pick up regardless of time and logistics.You have to crash the reasonable approach and make the disadvantage to turn to an advantage.This can be done by parallel moving.Somebody does a thing,you do sth parallel to him to avoid confrontation.If there are obstacles in the way you change field and move parallel again,sth like that.
Anyway to become competitive you need to do what the rest cannot do.
Bez Bezarra
01-19-08, 14:42
Bez makes fun but knows things are much more difficult.
I bed one girl every 3 days. I talk to 20-30 girls every day.
Most women need 7 hours before you bang them.These generalizations are ridiculous and absurd. Nobody should give this kind of garbage any credence.
We are ALL different. We come in different sizes, shapes, nationalities, and ages. Some of us are under 30, some under 40, some under 50, and some really old fuckers too. Some are good looking and some aren't. Some are filthy rich, and some aren't.
Some of us want to fuck divorced moms and some don't. Some want models, and some want shop girls.
These principles of Hecker's are for Hecker and any of his twin brother mongers out there, but they sure aint for me. When I read them, to me, they are a joke.
Anything less than nailing 2 different girls EVERY day, is a day that I have failed to meet the minimum daily mongering recommended guidleines for consumption of vitamin P. That is, one daytime, which can be morning or afternoon, and one evening, from late afternoon to 4 in the morning.
I do NOT talk to 20 girls every day, I'll be happy if I can talk to less than 5. Unless the girl is an 8 or better, I will not EVER waste my time on a second date, and that second date BETTER be the one that ends up with her naked in the bed, or there ain't gonna be a third one.
7 hours? How about 90 minutes maximum? That's more than enough time to swallow 3 glasses of wine or liters of piva.
The only thing that's more difficult, is finding good mamachkas to keep the talent revolving and my mobile ringing day after day and night after night.
The rest is still the same. Maybe its the mongers, since there's so many MORE of them, that are different, or shall we say, highly diluted in talent, giving the impression that mongering has become more difficult, when its really just that the mongerers themselves are now a whole new group of misfits and miscreants without any real style or class. Hmmmm..?
Of course everyone is different and has his own style.I tried to present some tendencies about what happens on average when hunting freebies in Ukraine.
There is a fine line between freedom of will and law of averages.
DJ FourMoney
01-21-08, 10:54
Of course everyone is different and has his own style.I tried to present some tendencies about what happens on average when hunting freebies in Ukraine.
There is a fine line between freedom of will and law of averages.
I'm still trying to figure out if its worth buying Rosetta Stone to learn -
Russian for FSU
A brotha speaking Russian is something you don't see very often especially as my Ukrainian lady friend said "You do not have African features, everybody can tell your not African...."
;)
I'm still trying to figure out if its worth buying Rosetta Stone to learn -
Russian for FSU
A brotha speaking Russian is something you don't see very often especially as my Ukrainian lady friend said "You do not have African features, everybody can tell your not African...."
;)I found the Living Language Russian to be far less expensive and more effective for me than Rosetta Stone.
By living language Russian you mean living with a dyevushka or two and having her teach you Russian, right? :)
if you are smart you will learn russian soon.however with russian there are two problems.
1. cyrillic alphabet which makes memorizing words more difficult due to unusual letter view.
2. written speech different than oral speech which makes learning from books and newspapers more difficult than western languages because the expressions used for oral communication are different.
so the best is to buy a method like living russian or colloquial russian,a dictionary and start to talk to girls.russians will help you a lot to learn their language,they can speak slower,more clearly for you to understand,they will not correct you harsh when making a mistake and they are very patient.so it is a safe bet that sb after 6 months of living in russia or ukraine will have started to speak basic russian provided he has a minimum of smartness.
if you do not live there,you need about one year-one year and a half of learning to start communicating efficiently.
By living language Russian you mean living with a dyevushka or two and having her teach you Russian, right? :)
Thats the only way you can really learn I have found.
By living language Russian you mean living with a dyevushka or two and having her teach you Russian, right? :)I wish I could do what you suggest, living in with a debushka! Unfortunately, I'm stuck in New Jersey so the best I can do is go to Brooklyn, NY. I did mean Living Language Series of CD's and a textbook. It's very good. I can actually have a semi-decent conversation in Russian now (fellow women on NY subways, Brighton Beach grocery stores etc.). I am hoping it will be of use when I go to Moscow and St. Petersburg this summer.
DJ FourMoney
01-23-08, 01:23
Just weighing my options...
English speakers are in high demand as we all know; they know that as well.
Dark Hair, Light Hair, it makes no difference to me personally. So I could take my chances with English speakers or invest and learn the language.
I do understand the advantage of knowing a language and women in other areas of these countries many Western men normally don't have access too and knowing Russian is important.
Thanks for the tip Valuedisc!
Bez Bezarra
01-23-08, 03:37
english speakers are in high demand as we all know
what is this crap?:mad:
ok, ok, so you want a little pillow talk after sex, well how quaint. excuse me while i blow chunks.:rolleyes:
you want to call me crass, well go right ahead. but the one reason i leave the states for is to get away from english speaking b1tches and all their god damn whining and complaining. just walking through the airport when i return home, i start to hear english coming out of their mouths, and its so fucking depressing listening to everything they don't like about this and that, how some crummy guy disappointed them about such and such, bla bla bla, after two minutes of that shit, i'm begging to get back on the plane and get as far away as fast as i can.
so when i get lucky hooking up with some dumb as dirt hot dog girl from the park, am i thinking how disappointed i am that she won't be discussing current fashion trends or the price of tea in china after i get done defiling her lower back tatoo with a nasty batch of hot goo? lord a mighty, no! :o
i mean really, what in hell's so wrong with basic primal grunting and moaning, to me, that's a very well rounded and meaningful exchange of ideas and provides a unique insight into a relationship founded on mutual admiration. who need's to hear about some poor little dyevochkas pitiful brother being locked up for years in jail simply for getting involved with the wrong crowd, and how she only needs a couple thousand bucks to pay off the judge? especially when she's just lying in that its really her stupid boyfriend, not her brother, that's getting anally raped in prison. :d
i'd much rather try to struggle a couple of interesting sentences of my dubious ruski, telling her she has a sweet snatch and how i'd gnaw on her snapper for a month, or let her come up with something equally poignant like "me like yes syeks", or better, "you leek my ahnoose?" ;)
DJ FourMoney
01-23-08, 11:44
what is this crap?:mad:
ok, ok, so you want a little pillow talk after sex, well how quaint. excuse me while i blow chunks.:rolleyes:
you want to call me crass, well go right ahead. but the one reason i leave the states for is to get away from english speaking b1tches and all their god damn whining and complaining. just walking through the airport when i return home, i start to hear english coming out of their mouths, and its so fucking depressing listening to everything they don't like about this and that, how some crummy guy disappointed them about such and such, bla bla bla, after two minutes of that shit, i'm begging to get back on the plane and get as far away as fast as i can.
so when i get lucky hooking up with some dumb as dirt hot dog girl from the park, am i thinking how disappointed i am that she won't be discussing current fashion trends or the price of tea in china after i get done defiling her lower back tatoo with a nasty batch of hot goo? lord a mighty, no! :o
i mean really, what in hell's so wrong with basic primal grunting and moaning, to me, that's a very well rounded and meaningful exchange of ideas and provides a unique insight into a relationship founded on mutual admiration. who need's to hear about some poor little dayevochks pitiful brother being locked up for years in jail simply for getting involved with the wrong crowd, and how she only needs a couple thousand bucks to pay off the judge? especially when she's just lying in that its really her stupid boyfriend, not her brother, that's getting anally raped in prison. :d
i'd much rather try to struggle a couple of interesting sentences of my dubious ruski, telling her she has a sweet snatch and how i'd gnaw on her snapper for a month, or let her come up with something equally poignant like "me like yes syeks", or better, "you leek my ahnoose?" ;)
bez crass?
never, i just think our goals are different. if notches on your belt are important to you, then conversation is not high on your list anyway. i am one of those dumb americans that want to drag a devotchka back home with me, knowing english is useful, not required of course (at first).
yeah i know some of you will po-po the idea of marrying one of these girls, but if the mayan calendar is correct, does it really matter what i do???
With knowledge of russian you get some distincet advantages
1. Ability to hit girls not able to communicate with other foreigners due to language barrier. There are tons of them. Of my gfs in Ukraine only 2 spoke english.
2. Ability to get gfs of low socioeconomic status (the ones who did not have money for english private lessons and the not ambitious who did not learn english or the less smart who could not learn english or the ones with no connections to western environement who did not learn english). Girls who do not speak english are generally more easy going than the ones who do speak english.
3. Ability to pull in province where the majority has no grasp of english, even people in hotels, central restaurants etc. This means capability to deal with every day challenges as well in these places which are very hard for the average monger without local connections.
4. Very good understanding of local culture and actual chances, you get the big picture of things, the insider perspective. You will understand her girlfriends when they talk about you or her, her mum when she complains about everyday life, in general you get in, you adopt the local mentality, you become more slav and slav means powerful.
Doctor_Skank
01-23-08, 21:04
With knowledge of russian you get some distincet advantages
1. Ability to hit girls not able to communicate with other foreigners due to language barrier. There are tons of them. Of my gfs in Ukraine only 2 spoke english.
2. Ability to get gfs of low socioeconomic status (the ones who did not have money for english private lessons and the not ambitious who did not learn english or the less smart who could not learn english or the ones with no connections to western environement who did not learn english). Girls who do not speak english are generally more easy going than the ones who do speak english.
3. Ability to pull in province where the majority has no grasp of english, even people in hotels, central restaurants etc. This means capability to deal with every day challenges as well in these places which are very hard for the average monger without local connections.
4. Very good understanding of local culture and actual chances, you get the big picture of things, the insider perspective. You will understand her girlfriends when they talk about you or her, her mum when she complains about everyday life, in general you get in, you adopt the local mentality
I more or less agreed with you up to this point. Another point that is even more significant is that there are a lot of girls that DO speak English but are too shy to do so. If you break the ice with Russian, at some point they aren't ashamed to test their English. I speak English with more than half of my gfs overall, but with the recent ones, I speak Russian with about 75% of them, even if they speak some English and my Russian really isn't that great. It's fun. And keeping conversation basic has it's advantages.
You talk less and get to the point. Anja recently told me she thought it was terribly sexy the way I spoke Russian, very direct. That's cuz I couldn't think of any other words babe, but I'll take it anyway... :)
, you become more slav and slav means powerful.
This part I definitely do NOT agree with. Adopting some of the local playing rules is GREAT for your game.... but don't try to become a Slav. They are their own worst enemy when it comes to women some times. Besides that, pretending to be a Slav is still pretending. It's like being a wigger... and being a wigger is not cool at all.
I find it best to take the best of the Slav game, those aspects which the Slavic female is groomed to like and most importantly RESPECT... being manly, direct, uncompromising and even cruel sometimes (by our standards anyway)... and combining it with the qualities of the Western male... humour, intelligence, culture, sentimentality and sensitivity at the right moments and most importantly, actually caring about her sexual pleasure. If you bring her to that level of sexual pleasure, she's yours forever. I don't mean to step on any toes here, but one of the biggest complaints I hear from Slavic women is that their men aren't attentive in the sack and really aren't very good at getting them off. For a lot of Slavic girls, and curiously enough particularly Ukrainians, sex with the local boyfriend is a chore they have to do, not something they particularly enjoy.
Show them how great it is, they'll be ringing you up at 3 in the afternoon, 8 in the evening and 2 in the morning asking if they can come over to fuck.
Explorer69
01-24-08, 08:17
I find it best to take the best of the Slav game, those aspects which the Slavic female is groomed to like and most importantly RESPECT... being manly, direct, uncompromising and even cruel sometimes (by our standards anyway)... and combining it with the qualities of the Western male... humour, intelligence, culture, sentimentality and sensitivity at the right moments and most importantly, actually caring about her sexual pleasure. If you bring her to that level of sexual pleasure, she's yours forever. I don't mean to step on any toes here, but one of the biggest complaints I hear from Slavic women is that their men aren't attentive in the sack and really aren't very good at getting them off. For a lot of Slavic girls, and curiously enough particularly Ukrainians, sex with the local boyfriend is a chore they have to do, not something they particularly enjoy.
Show them how great it is, they'll be ringing you up at 3 in the afternoon, 8 in the evening and 2 in the morning asking if they can come over to fuck.I can only agree completely and applaud! Amen!
DoctorOral
01-24-08, 08:58
I hope you did hit reply.
I write about short time travellers,not frequent travellers or residents.If sb can come two times a month to Ukraine or stays there,he will develop his personal style.But if he comes only 2 times a year and stays for one week,he may have to choose between direct slavic game and not direct western game.
While most have the perception that they as westerners are superior and the girls expect from them different qualities,I give them the opposite advice.Act like a slav.Slavs manage to keep them not demanding and devalued because they are reluctant to provide if there is not huge offer in advance.
It is an eye opener when you apply slavic behaviour to western women.They get totally shocked at first not wanting to believe what they see.They have it for granted that a man has undergone such a kind of education that such behaviour is extinguished.So when they face it,they are very vulnerable.
So I would suggest slavic treatment not only to slavic but to western women as well.
It is important to keep their low expectations as low as possible.Western providers value women according to western standards which is big mistake.
I wish I could do what you suggest, living in with a debushka! Unfortunately, I'm stuck in New Jersey so the best I can do is go to Brooklyn, NY. I did mean Living Language Series of CD's and a textbook. It's very good. I can actually have a semi-decent conversation in Russian now (fellow women on NY subways, Brighton Beach grocery stores etc.). I am hoping it will be of use when I go to Moscow and St. Petersburg this summer.
I was actually looking at getting Rosetta Stone or Pimsleur. I'm glad to see a few positive reports of something else better than Rosetta Stone.
Just wanted to know, has anyone else found Living Language Series to be better than Pimsleur as well? Just seeing what the best option is.
To be honest, I feel an introductory to the language through one of these courses with a higher emphasis on conversing with natives would get one speaking Russian much, much quicker?
I was actually looking at getting Rosetta Stone or Pimsleur. I'm glad to see a few positive reports of something else better than Rosetta Stone.
Just wanted to know, has anyone else found Living Language Series to be better than Pimsleur as well? Just seeing what the best option is.
To be honest, I feel an introductory to the language through one of these courses with a higher emphasis on conversing with natives would get one speaking Russian much, much quicker?You can try the teach yourself Russian or colloquial Russian methods. They are both english, British are smart when teaching languages, they get straight to the point and give you what you really need for casual conversation, more practical knowledge without heavy grammar etc.
Hi,
I recently got the teach yourself instant russian book inc CD and although its not comprehensive it gives you what you need for short direct conversations.
I was actually looking at getting Rosetta Stone or Pimsleur. I'm glad to see a few positive reports of something else better than Rosetta Stone.
Just wanted to know, has anyone else found Living Language Series to be better than Pimsleur as well? Just seeing what the best option is.
To be honest, I feel an introductory to the language through one of these courses with a higher emphasis on conversing with natives would get one speaking Russian much, much quicker?
The Doctor brought up an excellent point. I have found that, with a few exceptions, when you focus on the woman's pleasure, they are genuinely surprised. Give a girl an orgasm orally, and a switch flips in their heads. They become yours.
So I can only assume local guys rarely ever bother going down, if at all.
This is true worldwide, in my experience.
Doctor_Skank
01-29-08, 20:46
The Doctor brought up an excellent point. I have found that, with a few exceptions, when you focus on the woman's pleasure, they are genuinely surprised. Give a girl an orgasm orally, and a switch flips in their heads. They become yours.
So I can only assume local guys rarely ever bother going down, if at all.
This is true worldwide, in my experience.
Good call.
Cunnilingus is a powerful weapon, employ it with care... and skill.
Bez Bezarra
01-30-08, 04:58
I found with few exceptions, when you give a girl an orgasm orally, they become yours.
This is worldwide my experience.
Don't be so modest :rolleyes:
All right, yes, your point about local dudes is a good one, that they get their blow jobs and reciprocate with no more than a few good fuck-thrusts for their dyevs to enjoy, finish, then its right off to swill down more vodka with their drinking buddies.
But really now, worldwide instantaneous devotion simply for a girl busting one single nut from a tongue job?
Ok yeah sure, maybe some shaking, squealing, a very tight warm hug, some gratitude, nice complements, surprise and joy, maybe even an occasional tear drop, but worldwide instantaneous devotion, without exception? Well, at least you don't exaggerate :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
heres the basic ground rules as to oral and and sex to the ukraine masses.
1. a man never goes down its not manly! (in fact i have taken the [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) out of a serious guy over here about it and he stopped talking to me for about a month he talks again now but only if promiss not to ever mention it again)
2. a hooker/ misstress gives blow jobs a wife does not ( after all she has to kiss your children with the same mouth)
3. "sex is about making the man happy not the woman." i have heard this many times from men here.
4. women here do fall in love with you and open up to you if you spend time to make sure they are happy be it going down or to give them it in "their" favourite position/ speed/ place.
LifeSavour
01-30-08, 15:30
Don't be so modest :rolleyes:
All right, ........
But really now, .....devotion simply for a girl busting one single nut from a tongue job?
Ok yeah sure,....... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:Last time I checked the girls I play with don't have NUTs!
So I guess none of them can really bust a nut!
But the other day I was visiting a center apartment of a fly-in friend and his girl for the week! So I kindly asked if I could make use of the bedroom with an internet girl. Yeah I broke down and ordered from the 'menu'!
She only cost 300 uah, 20, cute, nice titties, friendly, fun, only covered BJ, and warned me while we were all drinking that I would not be able to make her orgasm as it's difficult for her.
Ok, so while she was blowing away, I reached down and drug her up and made her sit on my big face. And within seconds she was screaming and hitting the headboard so hard that Yana and Bill in the living room were laughing so hard I heard them. (we left the door open)
Bottom line is that these young girls don't get a licking and they still keep on ticking. So when the Master gives them the FACE SPLAT they tend to want to come again (pun intended)!
I got an sms the next day that read " kiss, your a very good boy. "
HA 52 and still a boy to a 20 yr old!
LS Guy
Perhaps that came off the wrong way. I did say with 'some exceptions', such as the one girl I pulled from RP who wouldn't let me touch her at all for fear of getting pregnant (seriously).
But the rate at which I've encountered a noticeable change in attitude is upwards of 90%, I kid you not.
I didn't mean to imply full devotion. I meant to imply that you get on the 'preferred customer' list. What this means varies. For 'Katya', it was a big smile on the way out with a whisper in broken English "next time, you can do to me anything you want honey". For Ina in Singapore, it is coming over to the hotel at the drop of a hat (from the club where she was trolling her next customer) and spend the night absolutely free. For Eppe in Indonesia, it means that upon hearing you are in town, buying a cheap plane ticket from her hometown in Medan to come see you (on her nickel).
These are just real life examples that I don't intend to be some form of bragging or BS.
Don't be so modest :rolleyes:
All right, yes, your point about local dudes is a good one, that they get their blow jobs and reciprocate with no more than a few good fuck-thrusts for their dyevs to enjoy, finish, then its right off to swill down more vodka with their drinking buddies.
But really now, worldwide instantaneous devotion simply for a girl busting one single nut from a tongue job?
Ok yeah sure, maybe some shaking, squealing, a very tight warm hug, some gratitude, nice complements, surprise and joy, maybe even an occasional tear drop, but worldwide instantaneous devotion, without exception? Well, at least you don't exaggerate :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Bez Bezarra
01-31-08, 05:43
Last time I checked girls don't have NUTs!
So I guess no really bust a nut!
But now that you mention it, I actually got it wrong.
Alicia, my 90's trampy crack head hippie chick that used to call me when she was horny and also needed $40, would let me know after around 15 or 20 minutes of sucking and fucking, that she had "got her nut", and so I could now finish and blow my load of goo in her ear and up her nostril.
Sorry for the mix-up on that :(
What is the cheapest and the easiest (confortable) way to phone in Ukraine i know that my friend changes his SIM car for his cellular phone but i do not now what to buy and what to say in the shop, i need to call dozens of girl to have 3 or 4 meetings on one week. I do not like cellular phone but maybe i will change of SIM card just to call the girls in Ukraine.
Sevastopol1
02-01-08, 11:10
What is the cheapest and the easiest (confortable) way to phone in Ukraine i know that my friend changes his SIM car for his cellular phone but i do not now what to buy and what to say in the shop, i need to call dozens of girl to have 3 or 4 meetings on one week. I do not like cellular phone but maybe i will change of SIM card just to call the girls in Ukraine.
Kyivstar/juice or umc/mtc both reliable, beeline big rubbish!
DoctorOral
02-01-08, 18:03
I find MTC the best - go to a big shop - there is a big one on Maidan - to have a good choice of numbers to recieve a smart and easy one.
AColonizer
02-02-08, 09:53
I have just received an advertisement from GIA about Vera and I am shocked about its/her rates: 250$ for 1 hour! Although Gia has silly prices, I am still hearing people looking for GIA's girls!!! For what? with those rates, girls should make orgies with ten men together!!! This is the method to raise prices in the depressed Ukrainian economy!!! Ukrainian girls need us and not the opposite!
Can you please confirm before my deposit that http://www.mystay.org and rent apartment in Ukraine are serious agencies and if you have solutions to rent a car in Ukraine for a low cost to pick up streetwalkers for a BBBJ or more.
AColonizer
02-03-08, 13:50
That's incredible! Some girls are asking for incredible prices! And they are not young because, you know, in Ukraine girls older than 20 years are old girls. Don't pay more than 250/300 dollars per night at least 8 hours! And don't write the incredible prices we read because girls read this forum and then they have a word-to-mouth.
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