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IT,
Yes, the Arena complex is at the Bessarabaya Square end of Kreshatik. 112 and the Arena bar, disco and Restaurant are there. Just to clarify, I met her in 112 and took her to the Arena restaurant because I was hungry and I wanted to make sure her energy levels were up.
Jack.
Ever seen a prostitute crying because she doesn't want to be one? Yet her abusive drunk boyfriend keeps sending her out because he is too lazy to get a job? Or how about seeing her cry because she lives in some crap hole like Kiev where the only way to make a decent wage is to steal or sell her body? Or the prostitute who cries because she sells her body to make a better life for her child? Dude, you need to get out more often or start hanging around with The Connection.
You can get sex for free but feel like shit afterwards? Ummm, ok - that's a new one...
GIA sucks. The price keeps going up because foreign tools keep using them. Pick up a free copy of What's On or the Kyiv Post...Actually, I was just trying to point out that we all have a different point of view and a different morality. I don't like lying, pretending, or talking "game" to pick up girls. Although I'm probably above average at it, I just got tired of it. It's not really that new.- how many ads, personals, or statements have you heard from people that are tired of "playing games". I hear it all the time and that's what I'm talking about. When GIA prices themselves out of my range, I'll just go elsewhere without so much as a whimper. As for the rest, maybe some here like threesomes, or transvestites, or even more "unusual" scenarios. I say.- as long as no one is being hurt.- go for what you like. Neither I nor you, nor anyone else is correct in judging their activities.
Maybe I'm lucky, but I've never been with a prostitute who showed outwardly that she was unhappy in my presence. But even if she did, OUR relationship is completely honest. That's how it works in my mind.- if it works differently in someone else's, that's perfectly OK. The pros know full well what they're getting into, but my local bar can be a regular sobfest at times. Sometimes I have to leave just because I can't stand the bullshit the guys in there are slinging anymore. We actually had a guy here who claimed to be from Russia.- it was his "gimmick". He couldn't speak a lick of the language, but I didn't have the heart to mess with his "catch. " If she's that dumb, she deserves what she got, I just couldn't be the one to do it.
Live and let live. There's plenty of both freebies and p4p in Kyiv.
Observeration
02-09-07, 11:21
Ever seen a prostitute crying because she doesn't want to be one? Yet her abusive drunk boyfriend keeps sending her out because he is too lazy to get a job? Or how about seeing her cry because she lives in some crap hole like Kiev where the only way to make a decent wage is to steal or sell her body? Or the prostitute who cries because she sells her body to make a better life for her child? Dude, you need to get out more often or start hanging around with The Connection....She's selling the slit mate these tears are simply requests for more money what's gotten into the lot on this site?
Cruiser, you are the last person I expected this type of rubbish from. So political and so American.
Ever seen a prostitute crying because she doesn't want to be one? Yet her abusive drunk boyfriend keeps sending her out because he is too lazy to get a job?If true then why the hell she doesn't kick him out the door?
. . . Cruiser, you are the last person I expected this type of rubbish from. So political and so American.Correct: very American political correct feminist bullshit argument of Cruiser. The girl is a hooker and who is to blame? A guy! A guy who forces her!
ChrisForSex
02-09-07, 23:49
Met Polina at http://www.gia.com.ua and liked her from the first time. Then I called the manager and arranged for a meeting with her. She came on time, so well-dressed that my first thought was to undress her. We talked a bit and then she started teasing me by telling me all the naughty things and making me some kind of erotic massage. She was really gorgeous in bed! she has very beautiful breasts. First I thought they were not natural but when i touched, I was amazed - so
fresh and tight but natural. We changed some positions. She does bareback absolutely perfect! Very good blowjob, coming in mouth. I really forgot everything with her... and when the time ended (it has flown by as a minute) I wanted to keep her longer, she said she had to go. So pity, but really good impressions on her!!! Just look at these boobs!
Doctor_Skank
02-10-07, 00:30
If true then why the hell she doesn't kick him out the door?
Correct: very American political correct feminist bullshit argument of Cruiser. The girl is a hooker and who is to blame? A guy! A guy who forces her!
Jeez FD, that's not feminist or politically correct, that's just pointing out that no matter what their "game face" says to you, many of them live really shitty lives.
If I really cared I suppose I'd stop banging pros, but it still is a thought that occasionally crosses my mind. I hope I never one day become totally callous to the plight of some of the women I fuck.
Jeez Fido, don't live in a fantasy world . . . . It's just stating a simple truth . . .Dear Doctor, don't think I live in a fantasy world.
And, how for shure do you know that what you write is the simple thruth and nothing but the simple thruth?
I wouldn't find any joy in exploiting women who are forced for wathever reason. Specially not desperate drug adicted prostitutes. Apart from the risks of diseases.
The only time a girl told me she was forced to be a prostitute was in a brothel in South America. The girl told me this after I had prepayed for her. Something like $US 25. $US 25 is not much for a GIA-girl but it is a lot of money in certain parts of South America.
After she told me she was forced I didn't want to have sex with her anymore. Although I didn't believe her story. To me it was just a trick to get money for doing nothing.
Also once spoke to a girl who claimed to be a prostitue because she had to buy medicine for her grandmother. Sorry, but I don't believe these stories.
. . . but you have to respect the capacity of endurance they have.I didn't write of disrespect for prostitutes. Why should I disrespect the women whose services I am glad to use?
Working girls I have met knew very well what they were doing, were no victims and liked to earn good and quick money.
I hope the girls spend the money on something usefull like a study or an investment. But lots of them spend it on worthless things like make up, clothes, cellphones, jewelery and boyfriends.
Most complaints I heard were from girls who made good money in the thermas in Rio. Biggest problem for them was the boredom of being 5 or 6 days a week 7 to 8 hours a day in therma (=disco/brothel/bar).
With good money the therma girls make I mean 10 times the official minimun wage in their country. If they invest well they can make a good living on that money after they are retired.
Only working girls I met in the Ukrain were Suzi and Sacha in Odessa and Yana from GIA in Kiev. To me they were independend women, who didn't mind what they were doing. They also were glad to accept my money.
Remark about these Ukrain working girls: it was nice being with them, althoug I think they were too expensive. Will not repeat on them. I certainly am dazzled with the prices at RP I read about on this forum.
Doctor_Skank
02-10-07, 01:08
Dear Doctor, don't think I live in a fantasy world.
And, how for shure do you know that what you write is the simple thruth and nothing but the simple thruth?
I don't claim to know everything nor do I believe that all pros lead shitty lives or are forced to do what they do. I've known happy pros as well. I doubt they'll keep that happy demeanor forever if they stay in the business too long however.
However, if you've fucked more than just a few pros in Kiev Fido, than you've very likely also fucked ones coerced into working that job one way or another... just as Cruiser said... whether it's physical force, financial duress or the need to raise a child on a wage higher than she'd get working the local produkti. By no means are all pros doing their job because they really enjoy it. I'm amazed by how many actually do enjoy it, but am also aware of those that don't.
Who was looking to moralize this? I was simply stating some truths. The way you reacted is quite interesting Fido. You don't think you are fucking drug addicted diseased prostitutes? Really? Where do you find your working girls? Fantasyland? Oh wait, you find your girls in the high class $25 bordello's in South America, I am sure none of those girls or the last 1,000 guys they fucked were carrying any diseases. Those girls who you have been banging at GIA who have been on there website for the last 2-3 years, do you think they are sex crazed nympo's enjoying the occasional degradation and abuse from clients - think they might be heavily medicating themselves to make it through the day? I am always interested in the length’s people will go to moralize their activities. Been feeling exploited by the mean prostitutes lately Fido?
In the pimp-john-ho equation it is always the ho who is the loser. Gritty and harsh yes but that is the truth at the end of the day. I could go on and on about this but I'm guessing at least 70% of the people reading this forum want to ignore the ugly truth.
Originally Posted by Cruiser D
Ever seen a prostitute crying because she doesn't want to be one? Yet her abusive drunk boyfriend keeps sending her out because he is too lazy to get a job?
If true then why the hell she doesn't kick him out the door?
Fido,
A reasonable question coming from one of us - male, monger etc.
However, you also need to look at it from the girl's point of view and the pysche of many of them for an answer to the question.
In many or most cases such as the one above and in a lot of abusive relationships what keeps the women there is a psychological dependency on the drunk boyfriend, insecurity, and often just plain certainty that as bad as it is, it is probably better than not being there or doing that.
There is often at one point and remaining aspects of love that the woman feels for the, in our eyes, rat. That's the way many woman are wired mentally and emotionally. For them this is on the surface rational behaviour, for us hard to comprehend.
Men are not so prone to this and so it is very difficult for us to understand why they remain. But they do. As we know well, women are mysterious creatures that take a long time to even partially figure out. One of life's joys is exploring them in all their forms and aspects.
IT,
Yes, the Arena complex is at the Bessarabaya Square end of Kreshatik. 112 and the Arena bar, disco and Restaurant are there. Just to clarify, I met her in 112 and took her to the Arena restaurant because I was hungry and I wanted to make sure her energy levels were up.
Jack.
I just usally rent flats on ul. Baseina, so it's two-three minutes walt I wanted to be sure it was the same!
IT
I recently accepted a job offer in Kiev and will move there soon. Can anybody recommend me good real estate agencies for long-term rentals? What districts of Kiev are best to live for somebody actively engaged in our hobby? I would appreciate any advices regarding relocation, apartments, etc.
Ah Skank, you are the best at posts.
I have been to ukraine 5-6 times, and agree with almost everything you say, exceptint the last-hence my post.
I have almost never seen evidence of coercion in a provider, and certainly not in ukraine, although I have met more than a few who would have gladly departed to another country with a halfway decent man. Jbut the same might be said of a male plumber: it just makes sense to better oneself. Because I am merely a one quarter decent man, the topic is moot.
In fact, I believe, we are all, each of us, coerced by some circumstance. The human condition.
I have found the girls of Kev and Karkov to be very sweet, accomadating, and genuine. In odessa I got a freebie, except I felt bad and gave her money anyhow, taht might have been a little delusional on my part, the freebie portion but, if I fooled myself inot thinking taht, so what, I mean she called the next day and I did not answer rhe call. I am not entirely sure what tha tmeans, but I am sure the same would not have happened where I live.
Anyhow, thanks for your insight
By good real estate agency I hope you mean one that isn't going to rip you off too much and provide something beyond the bare essence service they feel they can get away with. Otherwise you are heading to the wrong city.
As far as picking one district over another. If you don't mind riding the metro (which is closed from 1am-5am - I think) then any part of Kiev is fine. If you are on a budget but still looking to be in the midst of things then maybe Podil might be an option. If money is no object and you want to be in the middle of the action then you want to be on, or a block away from Khreschatyk. Which by the way it not considered an elite address in Kiev. I'm sure Uke will correct me if I am wrong but I think Lypky and Pechers'k is where the quiet money likes to live.
Felix Nordic
02-10-07, 17:57
Moral and prostitution
A lot have already been said about this but I will fill in with some personal considerations. Its true that a lot of hookers in East Europe have really rough times. So does women in general in these countries. The conditions of the pros are simply a reflection of the girls situations in general. Worse in the east and better in the west.
To throw in a bit of fuel I want to say that its bullshit to believe all hookers are forced into this work. From the feministic point of view they of course are. There is a certain percent of girls in the west that works as escorts just simply because of the top money they can make. And they do like it! They have fun and even get orgasms! Im sure and I know this goes for some girls in East Europe too. A career after university is a really long and hard way to get a fancy income. However the really brutal sides of prostitution is corresponding for the largest part. Especially in strong male culture countries and where prostitution is illegal. Its the culture to think hookers are dirty bad girls and they got treated accordingly. Not the Geishas in Japan though, because they are respected! Its also possible to compare with the FKK clubs in Germany. These girls are not forced to do the hooking! And it benefits for all participants! So far generalisations cant be done about hookers.
Lets define forced prostitution. I’ll give you me opinion. A girl that’s forced has a threat hanging over her if she doesn’t want to work, or limited freedom to choose what to do, or simply being kidnapped, beaten etc. Can be maffia, boyfriend or even relatives! I cant say that a girl that has to work as a hooker for economical reasons are being forced. In that case the term forced would be valid for most people working, because we all need an income to live. Its often a choice to take a higher paid job to get a nice living for your child or for yourself. It's a risky job for sure but considered a girl easily makes 10 times more, or even much more, than working at a Fabrika it just that tempting for them. To work in a Fabrika is also risky! Its not a coincidence the average length of a life in EE is considerably shorter than in the west! A life is simply just not worth much in EE. To be a pilot is also a risky job but they also have higher wages. Policemen doesn’t however.
There is an organisation called sex workers rights organisation and their main issue is not to stop prostitution but to improve the working conditions. I couldn’t agree more!
In my opinion it can sometimes be hard to say if a girl is forced or not. But a thumb rule is if they can enjoy the time and be relaxed and laugh at your jokes. Not correct in all cases but there is some truth in it. Those girls with no smile and no shine in their eyes, that just screams to you that this is an unhappy girl, are to be avoided not to support the powers forcing her. And not to support the business making it profitable to kidnap and force other girls to work. Really we customers can contribute with some moral here and chose the right girls to promote the brothels and organisations giving the girls fair conditions. We cant stop it but we can make a contribution to the better! And for those considering hookers to be human beings, that includes myself, will feel a bit better afterwards about the moral issue. However we cant be like priests either.
Its after a girl has met a number of A-holes treating here like shit that she begins to get cold hearted. And then she get beaten by the pimp until she stops complain so she will follow any A-hole because she have to work. The gypsy maffia is the worst kind and girls will simply be beaten until they do as told or even killed. To support systems like that gives a really bad taste in my mouth.
This subject shouldn’t be glorified because so many girls end up in big problems and all mongers using hookers are all more or less part of it. Especially in EE and Turkey etc. But we can try to give them a nice time and definetely avoid any girl showing signs of being forced. Because most of us want hookers that provide us with that pussy when our freebies fail to make us happy! And there are girls with fair conditions that we can have fun with! I have said no to a number of sad looking hookers! I also try do hookers less often because of bad service and risk of AIDS.
Just my two cents.
Felix
P.S I'm sorry but my post may not belong here since its a general issue.
Cruiser,
I do not want to turn this into a real estate thread for Hedonist and others moving to Kiev, therefore I will be brief.
With modern luxury housing now going up like mushrooms most everywhere, finding quality and comfort are no longer the issues they once were. It is now just a matter of price. For older building with the so-called "Euro-remont" one bedrooms in the center expect to pay anywhere from $1500 and up, new buildings and apartments are $2000 and up. Prices are going up every day, it seems.
You won't find anything decent in the city for less unless you are local with connections. Unrenovated studios are going for $500-$750 and more depending on location.
As for location, Pechersk and Lypky are the two best in my opinion. Close enough to Khreshchatik and even River Palace but far enough away from them if you want to have a normal life as well. Podil is fine, slightly less costly and it has its own charms. Forget about the Left Bank area, just a bedroom community with nothing to do there except Hydropark in the summer.
Otherwise, if you take a map of Kiev, stick a pin on the center of Khreshchatik and draw a semicircle away from the river and a distance all around of no more than 3 miles/5 kilometers, then just about anything in that semicircle should meet all your needs.
Wrong VV.
The girls at RP are doing mostly CBJ's now too.
Prostitution - Morals. I promise, this will be my last words on the subject (for a while) You guys either have no clue as to what is really going on or you really don't want to. Whatever it takes to help you sleep at night next to your wife...
Who was looking to moralize this? I
. . .
I could go on and on about this but I'm guessing at least 70% of the people reading this forum want to ignore the ugly truth.
Lot of stories recently about how horribe life can be for a pro from Cruiser D and Doctor Shank. With all due respect, please could you answer the following questions?
Situation: a guy pays $US 300 for a "River Palace" girl.
Question: is the girl a victim? or is the guy just stupid?
Situation: a US-guy gets a divorce. Has to give up half of his possesions. Has to pay allimony and is only sparsesum allowed to see his children.
Question: Who is the victim? The girl or the guy?
Situation: I have met only few working girls in the Ukrain. In Kiev I did met Yana from GIA. I think she is a nymphomatic. Nothing bad with that. To me she is a nice girl. I pay her good money. I do like her. She is not stupid. Studying law. Tells me she passes all exams with good degrees. She likes luxuary. Showed me the nice and expensive clothes she is wearing. Dolce & Gabbana, Versace, Prada. She is nice and sweet. But she also is business like. No minute for nothing!
Question: you want me to feel guilty?
Answer: sorry don't feel so!
One O Nine
02-11-07, 05:49
Lot of stories recently about how horribe life can be for a pro from Cruiser D and Doctor Shank. With all due respect, please could you answer the following questions?
Oh boy, gladly! Thought you'd never ask!
Situation: a guy pays $US 300 for a "River Palace" girl.
Question: is the girl a victim? or is the guy just stupid?
Depends on a girl, and depends on a guy. If the girl can handle the mental aspects of selling her body, and the guy treats her like a human being, and is not repulsive (or in rare cases like me happens to be breathtakingly gorgeous), then you bet the girl's not a victim. However if the guy is, like majority of her clients, an overweight slobbering middle-aged gentleman, and when he mounts her with all of his 300 lbs and she gets a face-full of hairy flabby sweaty manboob, you'd better hope the girl has the mental capacity to laugh it off and erase it from memory quickly.
Situation: a US-guy gets a divorce. Has to give up half of his possesions. Has to pay allimony and is only sparsesum allowed to see his children.
Question: Who is the victim? The girl or the guy?
Oh woe is us, poor men of the 21st century. Where hath the good times gone, when women knew their place, stayed in the back of the house, cooked, cleaned, and spoke only when spoken to? How dare they think that they are entitled to anything at all when leaving us - moreover, how dare they even consider the possibility! Why can't they just feel deliriously happy that a man invites them into his household, and count their blessings till their final breath that some man out there decides to marry them.
In a divorce, everyone is a victim, to a certain degree. However in cases when the husband was an irrational mysoginistic dimwit, the wife is certainly better for it, and the more she can get out of him, the better, I say.
Situation: I have met only few working girls in the Ukrain. In Kiev I did met Yana from GIA. I think she is a nymphomatic. Nothing bad with that. To me she is a nice girl. I pay her good money. I do like her. She is not stupid. Studying law. Tells me she passes all exams with good degrees. She likes luxuary. Showed me the nice and expensive clothes she is wearing. Dolce & Gabbana, Versace, Prada. She is nice and sweet. But she also is business like. No minute for nothing!
Question: you want me to feel guilty?
Answer: sorry don't feel so!
Well I've met a few more working girls than you. I've seen quite a few cases of a girl who just couldn't take it mentally, and as I'd see her again and again over the course of several months or sometimes years, I'd see them deteriorate from vibrant young women to absolute wrecks, hollow shells, with no more dreams or desires or thoughts. Their clientelle are collectively responsible. She sees the nice guys she enjoyed being with and felt a connection suddenly ignore her, pretend she doesn't exist, and go with other girls; she sleeps with men who treat her like a sub-human; she'll have an occasional creep who'll rob her or rough her up; and after a while she'll develop a very skewed worldview where she'll think of herself as disposable and worthless, and of men as hearless decieving animals.
Selling one's body is not your average impersonal commercial transaction. Girls who can handle it are rare. It leaves a mark. You may not notice it every time, you may not notice it right away, not every girl will show it, but I've seen it many times. It's heartwrenching.
LifeSavour
02-11-07, 11:35
perhaps a reminder that we are not alone in this, and what we say, do, even think may come around to ‘bite’ us!
i was in club 44 having drinks with a very nice professional (as in career) 31 year old. it was our 2nd date. my mobile rings and i tell her its my friend rick (names changed to protect the innocent & guilty) i answer but ‘blow’ him off quickly to get back to better things! especially these nicely enhanced ‘water juggs’.
lili (name changed to protect the innocent) immediately says "i know rick, he’s american and has written me." of course, rick writes everyone i say. "he’s a sicko "wanted me to peeee on him!" replies lili.
oh no, not rick! i remark. she then insists its rick and describes his hometown and distinctive photos.
hmmm, i begin to smile & laugh to myself, its rick alright, rick2 – another guy i ‘mildly’ know – but yet have very intimate knowledge of!
yeah lili, your right he does like that! so will you oblige him?
she replied, ‘hexx no!
man, i laughed almost all night thinking just how much ‘stuff’ gets around in this town and how embarrassed rick2 would be if he happened to show up about then. i think we get somewhat ‘immune’ to this internet beast and think it is ‘static’ and not actually a living, breathing monster that can and will come around and ‘bite ya’ !!
ls guy
Bez Bezarra
02-11-07, 13:41
Selling one's body is not your average impersonal commercial transaction. It's heartwrenching.Its also one sure fire way a women with zero skills and zero chance of making more than the minimum amount of money in a low level job can support herself and her family.
Having met the majority of prostitutes who just got started working, I can say that in the beginning, its more about helping their families than buying fancy clothes.
Well I've met a few more working girls than you
. . .
Selling one's body is not your average impersonal commercial transaction. Girls who can handle it are rare. It leaves a mark. You may not notice it every time, you may not notice it right away, not every girl will show it, but I've seen it many times. It's heartwrenching.One O Nine. OK, you met a few more working girls then me. But that is for the Ukrain.
This discussion is more general then only the Ukrain.
By the way: how did you meet all these working girls? Was it in your role as worker for the Salvation Army when you were trying to rescue them?
Or were you "buying their bodies and thus leaving marks upon them"? And now your christian moral makes you feel guilty?
Prostitution is not sympatic. Prostitution is selling sex for money.
Most women I met want something back in return for sex. If it is not money then it is a relationship they want in return. A relationship that might vary from sponsorship to marriage.
I have no intention of starting whatever relationship. I also have no intention of lying neither, pretending to have a realationship and then dropping out. So for me prostitution is a good and honest solution.
Like I wrote: prostitution is not sympatic. Not symaptic for both parties.
Nevertheless, want prostitution to be as pleasant and beneficial for both parties as possible.
There is no joy in abusing a woman who is forced into prostitution for whatever reason.
But there is also no joy in being cheated by a prostitute who wants to have a maximum of money in return for a minimum of performance.
I am very suprised a discussion like this is going on at this forum.
Thought this forum was about prostitution and not about womens lib.
I am also pretty suprised the direction this discussion is heading towards.
Reminds me of the Oprah Winfrey Show.
Anyway, to me the reason is getting more and more clear why in western culture (were guys have a mentality like "One o Nine") even unfounded aquisations of sexual harresment can have far going consequences for men!
Fido, I always thought the myth of poor canine vision was just that but...
No one has yet to mentioned anything that you have been going on and on about. Myself, the good Doctor and 109 - who combined have probably fucked more prostitutes and women in general then you could think is possible in your dreams; are simply saying that prostitution in general and high class prostitution specifically is not all Prada phones and Versace dresses. There is a heavy emotional toll to be taken in most case. How do we the trio of whoring muskateers know this - because for the most part we are actually decent human beings who actually develop human relationships with the girls. We get to know their back story, keep in touch (sometimes REALLY in touch) and keep an active interest in what they are doing as people. And in 109's case he is such an out of control stud it's generally my job to keep the girls off him in clubs so he can move.
Now just stop going on and on about nothing and concentrate about your occasional whoring trips to Kiev when you can get away from the wife. If you continue on and on about this you Will crash and burn. If it will make you feel better we will say the real victims of prostitution are the girls and Fido Dido.
Happy?
Robert1110
02-11-07, 18:45
Hello Mr Connection,
I live here in Kiev. We met maybe 2-3 years ago briefly at an office.
I want to talk to you, meet with you and participte in watching / learning how you go about this. I have had enough of the agency girls and meet most of my current GF's on the internet. I want to do the street scene. Contact me. I tried to send you a PM but it does not work for some reason. send me a PM with a way to contact you, I will send you my email and phone.
Thanks
I will be in Kiev the begging of march, I wont to try from gia this four girls
1) lilia (blond and toll). 2) oksana (beautiful and toll). 3) yana (skinny, blond and sexy). 4) yulia (good reviews).
But the reel secret in injuying sex is the girl shad enjoy and shad be hot, can someone Tel me in their opinion the best one ?
Thanks in advents
One O Nine
02-12-07, 07:43
By the way: how did you meet all these working girls? Was it in your role as worker for the Salvation Army when you were trying to rescue them?
Oh Fido, you card.
Or were you "buying their bodies and thus leaving marks upon them"? And now your christian moral makes you feel guilty?
When did I ever say anything about Christianity? Or can you not imagine an atheist having morals?
Most women I met want something back in return for sex. If it is not money then it is a relationship they want in return. A relationship that might vary from sponsorship to marriage.
"All women are *****s", "pussified men of the western society", "men are victims in a divorce", and other golden oldies - non stop, every hour on the hour, brought to you by Fido Dido!
Do you have any original thoughts? All your arguments are either tired straw men that collapse under their own weight, or banal fallacies.
And of course, women do want something from you in a normal relationship. They're human beings, after all, and all human beings enter relationships to satisfy their own personal needs. What exactly would be an alternative? Women who fuck men because they consider men to be their superiors and accept sex as the inevitability? Ha! Even 30,000 years ago those kind of views would get you laughed out of the cave.
Anyway, to me the reason is getting more and more clear why in western culture (were guys have a mentality like "One o Nine") even unfounded aquisations of sexual harresment can have far going consequences for men!
Oh hey, I've been waiting for you to drag the staple of all intelligent discussions, the sexual harassment straw man! Do you need a few suggestions on other sweeping generalizations you can make? They're G-R-R-R-REAT for those situations when you don't have any arguments left on topic.
we re simply saying that high class prostitution is not all Versace dresses
The myth of the expensive EE hoe selling herself for harsh necessity is BS and nonsense. Those girls are not selling their ass for survival, they're selling it ONLY so they can buy BS status accessories (expensive mobiles phones, Prada shoes, D&G jeans, and yes, Versace dresses) and live a livestyle that would normally be out of their reach. They become expensive hoes just for the same reasons that some girls become escorts in our western countries : because the money is good, and if they can stand having sex with old fat guys, the work really isn't that hard.
Yet getting us to feel sorry for them is a big part of their scam. I personnaly would never fall for this.
Some of you "experts'" seem to forget that prostitution is all about role playing. That's live theater, that's all.
Doctor_Skank
02-12-07, 11:08
The myth of the expensive EE hoe selling herself for harsh necessity is BS. Those girls are not selling their ass for survival, they're selling it so they can buy BS status accessories (expensive mobiles phones, Prada shoes, D&G jeans, ect) and live a livestyle that would normally be out of their reach if they managed to do it and make month end without whoring. They become hoes just for the same reasons that some girls become escorts in western countries : because the money is good. And if they can stand having sex with old fat guys, the work really isn't that hard.
Getting us to feel sorry for them is a big part of their scam. I personnaly never felt and will never fall for this.
Some of you 'experts' seem to forget that prostitution is all about role playing. That's live theater, that's all.Pro:
I like your analogy of prostitution being live theater. Respect. That comes pretty close to the way I deal with the individual pro. And is why I like to bring a video camera. I'll remember the term "live theater" next time I'm on the road... :)
But regarding the comments of my fellow mongers below, since when are we talking explicitely and exclusively about expensive hos? And since when are we wholly generalizing?
I also don't feel one damn bit sorry for those cold pros that scoff at a fair offer with the argument that "real men" can pay $500 etc or counter any small talk with "don't do this, don't do that and make up your fucking mind" all while looking at her D&G watch and texting her padrushka on a sponsered $500 phone. The vindictive mercenary-like pro doesn't enjoy my sympathies and experienced mongers avoid these girls like the plague anyway. I've seen Cruiser, 109 and a number of other experienced mongers "in action" at clubs and these girls don't stand a chance with them. I trust that most of the experienced ISG public behaves similarly.
By the same token, I believe if a girl is just trying to get ahead in life and afford some fun accessories so that she can live a glam lifestyle I am happy to support her... just as long as her price is fair and her service is good. Fair price is a relative thing and also dependent on the situation... market prices for the venue you met her in etc. etc. Just because you can bang a salon girl for $60/hour doesn't mean a RP girl has to accept the same tarif. If you want salon prices go to a salon.
Irregardless of where I picked up the pro though, I personally have very rarely been confronted by pros that complained or whined about anything. The vast majority simply did their job without complaint and most seemingly enjoyed the evening. Only after some candid conversations or some keen observation on my part was it apparent what was going on. The girls neither asked for extra money or support and certainly didn't ask for any sympathy. Hos are a tough breed. I've seen them deal with broken condoms, cold showers, utter exhaustion, theft by other mongers, fear and any number of other problems with a bravado and panache worthy of a SAS HRT.
I usually treat pros like girlfriends... as generous as I feel appropriate without overdoting and overspending. It's a system that works for me and one that gets the best response from them. As 109 said, after all they are also humans... and at the end of the day, women are women and its easier to love them than to fight them.
One of the golden rules of mongering is that there is a fine line between being a chump and being a champ.
But we are talking about hos in general and the notion that they all live happy lives as Gabbana-clad princesses is pure propaganda that some astonishgly inept mongers choose to believe, as it apparently matches their skewed outlook on life and disturbed relation to the female species. Some of the woman-hating comments here seem more appropriate in a Sharia textbook than a forum for educated mongers. I find it equally sad that some seem to have declared war on females and hold them responsible for all the frustration they feel in their lives. Sad indeed. Get a life or get a grip is all I have to say to those.
IMHO it is a relatively simple situation. Fuck enough girls and sooner or later you will have fucked some that are losing the game or most probably, never even really had a chance to win.
Night Flight in Moscow and River Palace in Kiev are full of the mercenary-type pro. If you get the wrong one of these, you'll end up feeling worse after the sex than you did before. Get a good one AT A FAIR PRICE and you'll cherish the memories.
Napalm in the morning. Smells like victory.
"Damaged goods" pros are primarily found at the middle to low levels of prostitution and BY NO MEANS are they ALL damaged or living horrible lives. It is rare however to find one that can continue the job for any length of time without going cold or suffering a disturbed relationship to sex or relations in general.
In fact, THE SAME CAN PROBABLY BE SAID FOR MANY MONGERS.
I am by no means trying to take the high moral ground. I am a monger. I fuck women for money. I've fucked angels and devils. High-class hos and 80 IQ country girls from the port.
I've seen both ends of the spectrum and know that prostitution is a job for many, a lifestyle for some and for many others, simply a cruel fate based on economic necessity, poor career choice, abusive boyfriends or simple bad luck.
Denying the fact that many girls suffer from prostitution is silly. It is equally silly to say that all suffer... obviously many profit from it big time and go home laughing at the pathetic men that pay for the holidays, clothes, cars and presents for their real boyfriends.
I prefer my girls somewhere in between, and that's why I am generally quite choosy... often going to clubs and leaving alone because I didn't find anything I liked or any girl I got good "vibe" from.
It's all about keeping your eyes open. And if need be, wallet in hand.
Bez Bezarra
02-12-07, 12:57
You end up feeling worse after the sex than you did before.
This is almost always guarranteed in the land of freedom and democracy.
And that's if you can even get to the sex, at least in my neck of the south.
I make it a point to always seek out visitors from other countries, but
sadly they almost always have american-ized so much that they aren't
any better than their US counterparts.
For example, in massage rub-n-tug places, I found a brazilian and a korean
provider. I guess I caught the brazilian at the right moment of horniness,
and got in her pants without her asking for $250 up front, so afterwards
I just handed her $50 as a tip and walked out before she could complain.
That didn't include the $65 hour fee I paid at the front desk. Of course,
in this place, they expect you to get it over with in 5 minutes, 10 max.
Also found a korean who said absolutely no intercourse allowed or she'd
be fired, and absolutely no home visits to my place allowed either. Best
I could do was some DATY, she was very sweet and its a shame that
was all as she probably would be a great fuck. But alas, nothing better available.
So there's just no satisfaction to be had at home. :(
There were times in the 1980's and 1990's when some nice times could be
had in the US with the right connections, but those days is long gone. Very long gone.
So what's a monger to do? Read and study ISG, and grab my passport for
another road trip to Candyland! ;)
Bez, you need some new connections or to move to a better area. I'm still living the life in the US.
This is what tipped me off, look at this
And these 2 posts by the 2 fakes are 2 minutes apart http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=560948&postcount=2570
and http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=560950&postcount=2571
How many posts do you see within 2 minutes of each other? 2 minutes, about how long it would take to finish one post, log out, log back in with another user's name.
Observeration writes in this post http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=558244&postcount=2527 "that is not sexy"
That is not sexy is the name of the web site the connection posts in this post http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=559003&postcount=2537
And look at the way Cruiser uses the word connection so much. Probably another alias.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=562107&postcount=2600
I will be in Kiev the begging of march, I wont to try from www.top-models.com.ua 1) elja and 2) zhanna
If someone know if the pic, is reel and some info from this girl's it will be appreciate.
Thanks in advents
Myself, the good Doctor and 109 - who combined have probably fucked more prostitutes and women in general then you could think is possible in your dreams . . .My o my. Now I am really impressed! What are going to reveal in your next post? The combined size of a certain body part of you and your friends?
. . .Now just stop going on and on about nothing and concentrate about your occasional whoring trips to Kiev when you can get away from the wife. If you continue on and on about this you Will crash and burn. If it will make you feel better we will say the real victims of prostitution are the girls and Fido Dido.Sorry that you get upset about what I write. But please don't start answering with nonsense. Just put me on your ignore list.
Now some words to One O Nine
Please read very carefull what I did write. And please try not to be the "Knight in Shining Armor"
Prostitution is not sympatic.
. . .
Nevertheless, I want prostitution to be as pleasant and beneficial for both parties as possible.
There is no joy in abusing a woman who is forced into prostitution for whatever reason.
But there is also no joy in being cheated by a prostitute who wants to have a maximum of money in return for a minimum of performance.A very big part of all posts on this thread is about RP-girls (who want at least $US 300 a night) and about GIA-girls (who don't earn that bad neither).
These girls know what they are worth and they are not giving it away. They are in it for the money. Period!
I am very sorry, but I have no pity for them.
These recent posts say it all. No need to comment:
The myth of the expensive EE hoe selling herself for harsh necessity is BS and nonsense. Those girls are not selling their ass for survival, they're selling it ONLY so they can buy BS status accessories (expensive mobiles phones, Prada shoes, D&G jeans, and yes, Versace dresses) and live a livestyle that would normally be out of their reach. They become expensive hoes just for the same reasons that some girls become escorts in our western countries : because the money is good, and if they can stand having sex with old fat guys, the work really isn't that hard.
Yet getting us to feel sorry for them is a big part of their scam. I personnaly would never fall for this.
Some of you "experts'" seem to forget that prostitution is all about role playing. That's live theater, that's all.
I used to use Gia all the time prior to the 'Orange Revolution' in 2004. Back then, I felt 'ripped off' paying $70USD for 2 hours but was always very happy with the service, so I was a returning customer. This always included bbbj and in many cases anal...ah, sweet Larisa, wish she was around still.
Now as I return to Kiev, 3 years later, I am saddened by the new pricing. Its now often 140-150usd for 2 hours and sometimes you have to pay additional $10-20 for bbbj, cim, things like that. And anal is no longer available.
I can understand the market changes, and it has been 3 years. But what made Gia my favourite years ago was that it was reliable and yet cheaper than other agencies, albeit some of the women weren't quite as good looking. But now, what is there to distinguish between Gia and using others? I guess I'll answer this question in a few weeks time.
And the thought of what RP girls might be charging nowadays (quoting 200-300usd 3 years ago).....its scary.
One O Nine
02-13-07, 06:10
You misunderstand me Fido. I'm not out there to change the world or save any damsels in distress. If you'll notice, I'm a pretty active member in a prostitution forum, and I have a few years' history of reporting on just that kind of activity. I'm not condemning the practice or practitioners in principle. All I'm talking about is the attitude.
There is this common attitude among mongers of "here's the cash you dirty ****, now rock my world" - and if they don't get it, it's "how dare she not treat me like the sultan of Brunei for my hard-earned 60 dollars". I hate it, and so do the girls. Forking over a scant few hundred bucks buys you nothing but quick access to the holes. It doesn't buy you the enthusiasm. You get the girl's participation by treating her like a decent human being. I'm sure that a lot of the "mercenary-type" sex cases are caused by exactly this, by the girl treating you like shit in reciprocity.
Of course, there are all sorts of women in the sex trade. There are the cold, impersonal mercenary-type pros who just want your money and don't want to give you anything in return. I spot them pretty easily, and tend to stay away from them. That's probably why my views on the profession are skewed, because I mostly get the less experienced, more "normal" girls.
The jobs that these girls have, even the diamond-watch-checking-30-grand-boob-job types, is still a pretty shitty job. They still have to fuck random strangers they may find repulsive, and pretend to like it. They all have their creep encounters. Even the Gucci-wearing-$500-a-pop ultra pros started out small, at agencies or tochkas, and have their share of horror stories from a few years back. A lot of these girls have the plain old PTSD, and their job description fits the classic diagnostic criteria to the T.
First and foremost, these women are human beings just like you and me, and there's no reason to think of them any other way. I do not despise misogynists because of political correctness or moral idealism. I despise misogynists because they simplify the world into nonsensical generalizations, and like with all other types of bigotry, are too stupid to see that both their broad stereotypes and their tired arguments make absolutely no sense.
All I'm saying is, understand that these girls are not automatons, and that the mere fact of giving them money is not enough to make them deliriously happy to be with you, and to make them go out of their way to please you. Be nice to them, and above all respect them. If anything, you'll get much better sex that way.
Luvs Girls
02-13-07, 06:25
Going to be in Kiev for one night and I am afraid it'll have to be an airport hotel because I have an early morning flight. Any chance there will be some "talent" in the hotel bar or will I need to call someone? I would love to have a massage and, possibly, some more. Any help will be appreciated!
I do not want to interrupt your polemiccs, but has somebody used:
Rakuena massage?
and
http://www.uakisski.com/
in particular
http://www.uakisski.com/kristina.htm
I'm delighted in an "tiight anal night" not so easy to find out in Kiev, and those boobs...
Any Info?
Any Info PMed on good Anal (possibly under 23) will be appreciated...
I will have a real six days sex tour, including some normal girls (two - three 19-23 y.o) next week. It's my bithday present. Of course a lot of Cialis will be needed. Some will be from Gia too, some from Flirt. :) :) :)
Of course I will report all you as usual...
IT
New escort kiev agensy
http://www.sextravel.com.ua/
One O Nine, agree with your words.
There is no need looking down on someone just because she is a prostitute.
There are prostitutes who have a miserable life. Sometimes because of their own fault, but nevertheless.
And it is way better to do business in a pleasant way.
However!
A very big part of all posts on this thread is about RP-girls (who do want at least $US 300 a night) and about GIA-girls ($US 170 for 2 hours).
Maybe I am cheap, but I am not going to pay those prices.
In my experiences there is no correlation between the amount of money payed and the quality of the sex.
I fear coming years these prices will be going up and up. Faster then other prices.
How come? My opinion: do think some guys are too soft and easy . . .
By the way: being soft and easy has nothing to do with being friendly
Lorenzo Rome
02-13-07, 21:55
I was only one time in Kiev and I called the famous GIA.
They couldn't send me a girl since it was too late. It was 1.00 am.
By the way it seems not so cheap, I agree with last guy speaking in forum.
I was in Timisoara (Romania) one week ago and it was a paradise, with 70 euro you can have sex with a girl for 1 hour.
Does anyone can give me suggestions about cheap girls in Kiev?
Maybe some of them are working in apartments.
Thanks. I will be in Kiev on 21 Feb.
LOrenzo
Can anyone suggest some dating sites that are in English? I did a search but only russian language sites are mentioned.
Are there any that actually allow contact for free? I use Megafriends as an example, but there are only a handful of active girls there.
One again it is Feburary and once again that means I am at Borispil Airport waiting for my flight back home. After 7 weeks of love and hate I am too tired to post anything of any note. Perhaps when I get home I will toss a few nuggets to the hungry.
It was nice meeting new friends and old. And of course here is to all the girls, past, present and future.
Gotta love the free WiFi at Borispil - it's the fastest connection I had while in the Ukraine.
I was wondering if you guys could help me tho. In my last night in Kiev I met this girl at this place called River Palace, I think it's a disco or a casino or something like that, anyways. The girl had blond hair and her named ended in a 'a', do any of you guys know her? I was too afraid to approach her but she kept looking at me all night and licking her lips, making the sign 3 with her fingers and a sound that sounded something like a cash register. I think it was true love.
Anyways here's to late afternoon BA flights and down with early morning Swissair - at least I won't have to go to Heathrow.
Love and peace, the Cruiser.
The girl had blond hair and her named ended in a 'a', do any of you guys know her? I was too afraid to approach her but she kept looking at me all night and licking her lips, making the sign 3 with her fingers and a sound that sounded something like a cash register. I think it was true love.
You fool! She was coming on to you, she may have even paid you or given you a "gift!"
One must be bold in these situations. Sorry, I have no idea who it could be, I don´t know of any blondes at the RP, let alone one with a name ending in "a."
Doctor_Skank
02-14-07, 09:31
You fool! She was coming on to you, she may have even paid you or given you a "gift!"
One must be bold in these situations. Sorry, I have no idea who it could be, I don´t know of any blondes at the RP, let alone one with a name ending in "a."
It was Sveta, that tramp! And I though she loved only me... :(
Doctor_Skank
02-14-07, 13:47
i don't really like river palace, but then again don’t hate it, but nonetheless inexplicably feel the american patriotic duty to watch the super bowl. i could be in timbuktu and would still find a satellite feed somewhere just to get my 4 hour pro football fix.
i am sure many europeans will bemuse this odd habit as a ridiculous waste of sleep and prime mongering time, especially considering the early morning time slot the super bowl fills in ukraine due to the time difference, but then again i don't laugh at european football supporters who pay to watch 22 guys chase a ball around for 90 minutes only to end with a final score of 0-0... and then top things off by gleefully beating each other up to a bloody pulp afterwards in an effort to "straighten out" whether or not grimbsy town fc is tougher than torquay united. now that's entertainment!
but i do admit the super bowl has often been such a boring affair that my time would indeed have been better invested into quality sleep or raunchy sex, or at least mixing it up with the grimbsy town hools and sharing pints afterwards in the nhs infirmary. nonetheless, in a desperate hope to rescue some of my male pride and combine tv sports with beer and sex, i asked for advice and received it from isg icon and sexpert cruiser d, who suggested watching the game in rp's sports bar located in the lower galley of the boat. not only that, cruiser offered me some fire support in my late night escapades. nice.
the problem with watching the super bowl in ee is the time. the game runs through the middle of the night, when most sane people are sleeping and i am carousing in the bar or nightclub of my choice.
cruiser and i arrived at the boat about 1am, roughly 30 minutes before kickoff. after checking coats and paying the entry fee, a quick scan of the disco area upstairs revealed a remarkably acceptable parade of babes, my attention being focused on a paris hilton look-a-like sitting majestically 2 tables away. even though my taste is more nelly furtado or scarlett johanssen than paris hilton lately, i did feel a stirring in my loins with every glance in her direction and she kindly responded by smiling back in a dollar-sign laden grin that read "$300" or "$200 and blow".
lacking blow and hoping for a more acceptable price following the game, we made our way downstairs to the sports bar only to discover we had clumsily missed the opening kickoff, which was in fact probably the most exciting play in the game, as chicago returned the kick for a touchdown... a first in nfl history. undaunted by this setback, we sat and ordered drinks and the game itself was ok enough... the few drinks, some soggy fries and occasional parade of babes visiting the sports bar keeping me satisfied that i had made the right decision and that my citizenship was secure and that my isg membership was in no danger of being revoked.
as the anti-climatic end of the game approached and it was almost 5am, our thoughts finally turned to getting laid as our football brains geared down and our sex brains geared up. in other words, our cognitive center went from the upper cranium to somewhere vaguely in the groin region.
for some odd reason i was optimistic that the disco would reveal 5-10 girls looking for a last second hook, and even though my body was tired from the combination of the previous days flight, a booze-a-thon with 109 at patipa about 24 hours previous and an afternoon poke-a-round with a big-breasted girl i had met on the internet, i felt my patriotic obligation extended beyond just sports viewership and in fact included burying my rod between some girls thighs.
our visit upstairs was short-lived however, as the disco was s.c.a.f.e.... situation critical absolutely fucking empty. not even the rumoured rp special was available, the $20 emergency handjob in the broom closet from the prune-faced cleaning lady. sorry vv, no luck on securing that phone number for you.
a bit concerned, we retreated back to the sports bar and found three birds still perched at the bar. cruiser instantly eyed one he liked, only to discover she was already on the way out with what appeared to be an aging local guy and most probably not her father. that left two, one that i really was optically impressed by:
a) a 175cm dark and slender nymph-faced brunette, her long jet-black hair pulled back in a loose ponytail and her tight light blue top revealing some very perky full breasts and her slender long legs seemingly squeezed in too-tight jeans
-and-
b) a 175cm sweet-faced "girl next door" blonde, wearing jeans and a form-fitting top which barely concealed ample breasts and a somewhat fuller figure. a bit more than i prefer in terms of body mass, but her youthful appearance suggested that she'd be solid and fit.
i was very keen on the brunette "nadya" and focused on her, approaching her in english. her blonde friend "sveta" quickly took over the translation duties, as nadya spoke very limited english. at this point in negotiation i did not reveal i understood russian, hoping to eavesdrop on their conversation. old habits die hard.
soon it became apparent that they wished to hard sell the "holiday package" and i would have to take both. realizing my predicament, cruiser gallantly offered fire support and shock and awed the two with his charm, looks and negotiation skills. this set the negotiations in my favor for some time, and their original offer of $300 each/or $500 for two quickly melted to $200 each/or $300 both. this was still a ridiculous price for this time of night, especially considering the fact that these two were the night's "leftovers" and didn't realistically rate above 7... admittedly the brunette's body being a solid 8 however. a brief monger's conference revealed that i would go for the double-team and cruiser, a bit fucked-out from his raucus extended kiev stay, would pass on the blonde.
after pretending to briefly walk away, i returned and countered with a final offer and they accepted... $100 each + $20 "taxi fee" each, or $240 total package option. any additional negotiation on my part might have saved me $40, but i felt that it would have also have demeaned me more than them. the price was fair.
we caught a taxi and after approaching maidan, cruiser got out at his apartment. the girls and i rode on and stopped at a 24 hour produkti.
the classic early morning 24-hour produkti shopping stop is actually best described as a raid and worthy of an article of its own. it is best equated to a munchie-craving pothead assault on any 7-11 in any given american city, usually during semester. as the taxi idled outside coughing thick gray toxins into the brisk pre-dawn air, the girls and i rampaged through the isles of the dirty shop, the half alert shop clerk keeping a bored eye on our mid-morning ritual, as the necessary supplies were collected... pistachios (which nadya would later explain are better than viagra), chocolate, water, cola to mix with the rum i already had, cheap champagne and some bread and salami. as nadya asked the produkti clerk for condoms, i touched nadya’s hand firmly with a smile and muttered "preservativi yest... mnogo". the produkti clerk gave me an offhand look, but i do believe i spotted the tiniest mini-smile appear at the corner of her lip. then again, i was quite possibly just imagining this, my vision clouded with thoughts of impending sex and still numbed from 4 hours of football. after paying the bill, which totalled roughly $15, we spilled happily out into the street, allowing the produkti clerk to go back to sleep.
back in the car, we continued on to my pad off kreshatik and i paid the driver 50 grv, a good price all things considered.
in the apartment, the girls did the classic ho tour, and i was pleased by their happy nature. in fact, they even commented on it somewhat accusingly, informing me that i was indeed very lucky to have 2 girlfriends who know and like each other and we were going to have a great fuck-filled night. i didn't dare disagree.
in the kitchen, the girls began to partially disrobe almost immediately, as tops were off even as i attempted to be a good host and pour drinks. they began kissing each other and asked me to feel their tits and ass. i humbly complied. soon i was hard as a rock and dropping my pants, guided nadya's hand to my cock, sliding it into my underwear. she shrieked with joy and helped sveta have a feel, who cooed in appreciation. as i maneuvered around sveta and pressed myself onto her upright body from behind, grabbing her tits and kissing her neck, i learned a new word: "shlem". my evening was now officially for educational purposes.
nadya, who was really letting her wild nature take control by now, found a toy dog in the apartment and began barking in a high-pitched tone, whimpering and looking at me with sad dog eyes. i asked her if she liked "sobachki" (doggy) style and slapped her ass, prompting yelps of approval. to hell with the drinks and hospitality, the girls were ready to fuck.
stumbling and falling onto the bed, dark-haired nadya peeled off the rest of her clothes to reveal an absolute top grade body, and blonde sveta’s body did not disappoint either, even though she carried about 5kg too much, she still was quite taut and firm. a whirlwind of kisses, groping, sucking and wild-abandoned girl-on-girl action and fucking both girls culminated in a powerful orgasm as i pounded wild nadya from behind, slapping her ass while she barked and whimpered like a dog, throwing her long black hair around in demonstrative skankiness.
relaxing on the couch again with some more drinks in a post-coital lull, we looked at some of my pictures on my laptop and the girls rated pics of my ex-girlfriends and some pros i’ve banged. they were quite surprised to find out that most of the pics were of girls that i didn’t pay for. somehow this didn’t register in their brains. they were particularly upset that the best-looking girls in the pics were freebies, as they were more interested in pics of other pros, their comments being quite appreciative of the better-looking ones and brutally curt when rating the ones they felt were more plain.
in one picture, my moscow girl katya was smoking marijuana at somebody’s house party i attended a few years ago from the student classic, a homemade plastic bottle bong. the girls were particularly intrigued by the picture and before i knew it, blonde sveta had whipped out a dime bag and was building a joint out of torn up cigarettes, cardboard paper filters and other assorted mcgyver tools.
the super bowl and doc skank. nothing is ever normal.
even though my college daze are more than a decade behind me, i decided to join the girls in their narcotic adventure and we smoked on the couch, kissing and hugging intermittently. the "j" got the girls even more relaxed and happy and soon they were dragging me back into the bedroom for some more sex. the combination of rum, marijuana, sensual music and an abundance of tit and ass in my face soon had me hard and ready and in a perfect mood to correspond to the wild nature of these crazy females. after literally tumbling onto the bed, i fucked the living daylights out of both of them and enjoyed their girl on girl action. suddenly the blonde had become extremely passionate and we fucked for an extended period of time, her eyes closed in moaning pleasure and her legs bucking wildly underneath me as i thrashed her passionately. at some point sveta’s incessant screaming and shrieks had nadya a bit jealous and i turned my attention to her, kissing her and fingering her hot moist twat while sveta kept sucking away on my hard cock. sveta’s sucking technique was very good, and even though i usually don’t come easily orally, as i clutched the back of her head and muttered obscene bedroom talk of the nature “suck that cock you fucking…” i felt my load begin to boil and near orgasm, so i switched girls and started kissing sveta again, while nadya switched positions and worked my cock with her mouth.
nadya had an entirely different cock-sucking technique than sveta, which can best be described as hyper-skanky. i loved it.
her technicque was rough enough not to endanger an orgasm on my part, so i just leaned back and enjoyed the show while kissing sveta off and on. nadya was holding my cock at its base hard and slapping her own face loudly with my stiff rod, then sucking it deep and long while looking into my eyes with a sensual spaced out expression, wiggling her body and slurping and groaning all the while. a spectacle i shall never forget. my growled comments of “you like sucking that cock bi***?” or "you want to fuck me?" were met with an approving and slurpy “mmmffwmmwmw”.
we switched positions and i fucked nadya again, maneuvering her around the bed with sveta in tow. the whole time nadya was muttering some nearly incomprehensible stammering… but mostly just “davai davai”, once complaining that she was too “vodny” (wet) as her pussy juices flowed in ridiculous volume, creating a wet spot on the bed. to get even deeper penetration, i jacked her legs up over my shoulders and pounded her relentlessly. after what seemed to be multiple orgasms on her part as her friend sveta looked on with a grin, i began choking nadya with my hand. as i pressed tighter , she turned her nymphish head to sveta with glossed-over dreamy eyes, making a faux gurgling sound and sticking her tongue out crazily to the side, as if she was dying. sveta laughed approvingly. somewhere in this crazy night i came again in a second thunderous loud orgasm that left me panting and spent.
nadya was noticeably satisfied and exhausted, and afterwards the girls and i relaxed on the bed and cuddled, telling stories, their heads resting on my shoulders and their fingers caressing my skin.
some time later as sunlight had long since filled the room, i checked my watch and discovered it was about 0945 and time to bid the girls adieu. the girls hastily collected their stuff and got up to leave. as we stood together in the doorway and i kissed their tits one last time, the neighbor, a burly ukrainian of about 35, suddenly came out of his apartment to go to work. the girls, a bit embarrassed, scurried off and the neighbor smiled coldly but knowingly at me. it must be a scene repeated a thousand times every night. scantily-clad, makeup-smeared girls hustling home in the wee hours of morning hoping to get home before too many people see them in their sex gear.
not only are girls of the night tough, they maintain a sense of obstinate pride that i somehow respect. when i kiss them sometimes and get lost in passion, everything seems so real and existential. this can linger for hours, days and, rarely, even weeks. but soon it is mere memory and no longer a feeling. feelings are replaced by new adventures. nonetheless i cherish the memories and thank each and every girl that made an extra effort for me to enjoy myself.
as the a-team says, i love it when a plan comes together.
Bez Bezarra
02-15-07, 01:57
A Paris Hilton look-a-like responded by smiling back in a grin
that read "$200 and blow".
Was she tapping the side of her nose and holding up 2 fingers,
or did you just read this proposition from the shape of her smile?
Great post Doc, and great night it seems ....
NO other experience in the world can be compared to sex with two horny slavic girls, save, perhaps, sex with two horny brasileiras !!
I am sure many Europeans will bemuse this odd habit as a ridiculous waste of sleep
There's a reason why the civilized world isn't interested in American football. That reason? It's a boring, ugly and predictable game. ;)
Hey Dr, what's up with banging those two girls? You told me you were going to just drop them off as you were pushing me out of the taxi...;)
Bez? Are you just being naive when you think Slavic girls can't be coke *****s like good ol' American coke *****s - same old story, just a different country.
American football vs. world Football...
American football is war without people dying (usually). World Football is more like dancing with the occasional biotch slap or some dude in gold elf booties head butting his way to losing the world cup. Most European countries seem ok with letting people kill each other after the game to make up for the lack of masculinity of the game, sort of a metaphor for European history and politics. ;)
Bez Bezarra
02-15-07, 23:13
The civilized world isn't interested in American football.
It's boring and predictable.
If you couldn't get "interested" at Florida Field during a downpour
with 5,000 drunk freshmen sorority sisters in the world's biggest
wet t-shirt contest, then you might as well pack it in Sally.
The USA isn't part of the civilized world?
And we'll suppose Bhutan, Djibouti, and Kyrgyzstan are?
And betting on football games is as unpredictable as it gets.
Its also one of life's greatest pleasures for a father and his monger son. :)
Doctor_Skank
02-15-07, 23:48
great post doc, and great night it seems ....
no other experience in the world can be compared to sex with two horny slavic girls, save, perhaps, sex with two horny brasileiras !!
there's a reason why the civilized world isn't interested in american football. that reason? it's a boring, ugly and predictable game. ;)
prosal:
i agree... when you get a team that likes to work together they really can bring you to a whole new level. wish i had more chance to try out south america's best.
as for your analysis of american football, can't agree on that. it's probably the least predictable, most exciting and most flash-glam game around. i don't expect non-americans to like or understand it, but as an absolute sports nut who even watches professional darts sometimes, i contend that american football is the best spectator game around. regrettably the super bowl often disappoints.. the semi-finals (conference championships) are usually better games. but then again, who cares. it's tits and ass that really matter.. :)
cruiser: i don't know what happened... i invited them in for tea and they raped me. shit happens. :)
Prosal:
I contend that American football is the best SPECTATOR game around.
eeemmm.....will have to differ on this one..........then it again it might be, if you like adverts and have the attention span of a goldfish............absolutely no offence guys................ok?...:)
Gentleman Travel
02-16-07, 19:06
I contend that American football is the best SPECTATOR game around.
Now we see what kind of depraved fantasies Herr Doktor indulges in ... American football being interesting!! You have been smoking!!!
It's tits and ass that really matter.. :)
A great report Doktor!
I don't even have fantasies with this much sex in them!!
GT
Doctor_Skank
02-16-07, 19:27
Well you English really don't know what your missing, but you can keep your footie.. I'm not trading American football for anything. You can't have baseball either, or tractor pulls!
But yeah fellas, my favorite spectator sport is watching my dick disappear in some girl's pussy, mouth, ass. In that order.
For all of those who think the Connection is not real, check out this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MMj0d9OaQ
Here he is sitting at his favorite spot in Globus 1 next to the escalator waiting for the village girls to pass by. Unfortunately for him he seems to have upset this rather large man - perhaps some victims brother?
I totally agree with Dr. Skunk. Kiev has the highest prevalence of hot girls all over Ukraine, let us say 10 times more good-looking girls than any other ukrainian city. Main disadvantages are
1. Very high prices and overcharging foreigners for everything
2. Girls not caring so much for boyfriend as in cities in province
This means that
1. Somebody has to pay minimum 50$ for every girl he dates whether in restaurant or club. So if he dates 3 girls he has to pay minimum 150$ every day. Since appartment costs 60-70$ per nicght and he needs another 40$ evry day just for eating and transportation one needs at least 250$ every day in Kiev to have a good time.
2. If a girl drinks in club you will have to pay about 50$ every 2 hours for your and har drinks and maybe the drinks of her girlfriends and this does not always garantee a lay with her or them later. In fact if you meet a girl in an average popular club and beginn to spend on her drinks it is likely she will date you next days but in order to become her lover she will ask for a present usually a mobile phone or something worth about 200-300$. You are supposed to pay for this, it is considered normal to buy a gift for her before. I am talking about normal girls, freebees not about pros.
3. Chances are one girl every 5-10 you date. This makes a total spending of 1000$ to get laid with one girl since you will pay for dates with girls you will never get to bed with.
4. On average one needs 2-3 dates to bring girl home and promises for travels.
5. Places like Decadance although full of stunning beauties do not offer many chances. Everywhere there are Americans, Arabs, Italians and Turks trying to pick up. The Americans have very good pick-up skills but lack the attitude.competition can be annoying, it is not yet in high level but it is certainly greater than 3 years ago when there was no competition at all.
6. Cheaper and popular discos like Carribean are a lot better although competition from foreigners exist there too.
7. One cannot avoid being overcharged. Everyone will try to get money from him, the taxi driver, the barman, the girls, everyone since he is not determined to fight and has no means to protect himself.
8. Girls appearance and attitude have changed a lot in last years. Now they demand more. On the other hand, most beauties of the country are now gathered in Kiev where more opportunities exist and you see a lot better-looking women than 3 years ago, I am sure about that, it has to do with physical appearance, not just better dressing. For example 3 years ago seldomly saw girls over 180cm tall in Kiev. Now there are quite a few.
9. As a result now there are more opportunities but the spending has skyrocketed. If for examle somebody went to a club in the past and spent 30-50$ he could get out of the club with a different girl each time and it was possible to make one night stand with some of them. Now he has to pay three times or more to get the same result. So I think Kiev is good for somebody who makes over 3000$ every month and wants to have a good time. It is not for the usual tourist.
As for pros they ask 50-100$ per hour. For the whole night the price is 300-500$. There are some cheaper who ask for 200$ per night but you one has to search for them. There are also semi-pros students for examle who need a sponsor who may ask for even less let us say 100$ every time they meet you to avoid spending in restaurants, clubs etc. Maybe this is the best solution, but one should search, be experienced and speak the language.
In River Palace there are some good-looking girls and everyone asks for 300$ for 2 hours. If somebody insists they may lower the price. River Palace is full of foreigners.
The whole scene in Kiev has changed a lot and the mind-blowing experiences of the past (just till 2-3 years ago) when the average foreigner was treated like a Hollywood star have passed definitely.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
For all of those who think the Connection is not real, check out this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0MMj0d9OaQ
Here he is sitting at his favorite spot in Globus 1 next to the escalator waiting for the village girls to pass by. Unfortunately for him he seems to have upset this rather large man - perhaps some victims brother?Lol! Who filmed that?
I gotta say, the picture certainly doesn't match the online personna.
1. Somebody has to pay minimum 50$ for every girl he dates whether in restaurant or club. So if he dates 3 girls he has to pay minimum 150$ every day. Since appartment costs 60-70$ per nicght and he needs another 40$ evry day just for eating and transportation one needs at least 250$ every day in Kiev to have a good time. [/blue][/size]Nice Report Hecker, I just spent an extended weekend in Kiev last weekend. It was my second trip there having been there at the end of last December. I live in West Europe so it’s fairly easy to pop in over there. Spent 4 days there with a girl I met there the first time. I noticed that if you ate anywhere above the level of say Double Coffee, like dinner a few rounds of drinks for two at Il Patio it would run you about $50-$70.
Not entirely cheap, but not entirely expensive either. $250 a day is a good budget if you spending time with non-pros in Kiev. When you add a couple of pros in the mix it can get really expensive, add another $200 to your daily budget. Something you should keep in mind if you’re on a tight budget and planning on having some "fun" in Kiev.
Let's see what else? Club 112 in the Arena Complex seems to be thick with pros on a nightly basis now. I don’t know what the deal is but allot of the girls did not seem interested in negotiating. The standard fee for fun was $300, way to much. If I'm going to pay that I'd be off to RP or any other miscellaneous strip club. If these prices keep going up, whoring in West Europe will actually be cheaper, and that's a damn shame!
Kiev is a mid-range to upper-range destination; keep that in mind if you’re planning a trip there. It also helps to dress up a little bit while your there to. That's just how it is there; people in Kiev are really superficial about outward appearances. So leave the sweatshirt and ball cap at home. Business casual with name brands seems to be the way to go here. I don't like it, but that's just how it is. I wore a black overcoat this time instead of an American looking leather jacket like I did last time. It was like night a day, fit right in, and had no hassles on the street, and no "wallet drops" in front of me as I was walking.
Met up with Cruiser while I was there one night, He is definitely on the level, very wise in the ways of whoring in Kiev! Thanks again!
There is just someting about Kiev; if you get the town figured out it can be a pussy paradise. I will be back in April!
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
I totally agree with dr.Skunk estimations.In order to get freebees in Kiev one needs minimum 250$ everyday,that is 100$ for staying and his expenses during the day and 50$ for every girl he laids.In order to get laid sb needs three dates with the same girl and successful dates are 1 in every 5,that is he has to spend at least 300$ on other girls before he gets laid with one.
All these come from observations.
Three years ago it was the same but the dates cost much less,one third maybe than now.So the loss was not so high.
One should also count that he will be overcharged on everything from taxi to drinks in club,so he will spend another 150$ on overcharging just to get laid.
LifeSavour
02-18-07, 06:37
Thanks again!
There is just someting about Kiev; if you get the town figured out it can be a pussy paradise. I will be back in April!And its not that difficult to figure out! Kyiv is actually a rather small city! On a daily basis I run into 'people' I know all the time.
'Paradise'
LS Guy
Doctor_Skank
02-18-07, 13:10
I totally agree with dr.Skunk estimations.In order to get freebees in Kiev one needs minimum 250$ everyday,that is 100$ for staying and his expenses during the day and 50$ for every girl he laids.In order to get laid sb needs three dates with the same girl and successful dates are 1 in every 5,that is he has to spend at least 300$ on other girls before he gets laid with one.
All these come from observations.
Three years ago it was the same but the dates cost much less,one third maybe than now.So the loss was not so high.
One should also count that he will be overcharged on everything from taxi to drinks in club,so he will spend another 150$ on overcharging just to get laid.
I think your estimates are too high. You don't need to spend $50 on a date if you don't want to. Go to a cafe instead of a restaurant. Ukrainian girls don't eat much anyway.
Overcharging? Foreigners are charged exactly the same for everything as the locals in clubs and restaurants. The only difference might be taxis and pro sex, but that's up to you and your ability and willingness to negotiate. I personally don't haggle over 5 grivni ($1) with a taxi driver and don't lose sleep over $20 with a pro. The main factor in overcharging is language. Its like a surcharge for ease... if you can't speak the local lingo, you have to accept what's available to foreigners, and the locals will try to overcharge for sex and some services. But restaurants and bars? Foreigners pay exactly the same as everybody else. If you are getting ripped off there you are doing something seriously wrong.
2-3 dates is normal for getting laid... but dates don't have to cost much. The ONLY thing that matters is getting them back to your apartment... how you do that is up to you, but you really don't need to go to dinner 2 or 3 times. You'll just get fat and bloated doing that all week. Cafes and walks in the park do just fine too... :)
The last freebie I banged in Kiev. Total damage: 2 dates and about $30... the majority of which were my mojitos and black russians.
My estimates of $100 a day running cost (not incl. apartment) are based mostly on my own expenses... the majority of which are drinks in clubs for me. That's just a personal choice... nobody is forcing me to drink and rarely do I have to buy girls drinks... most don't drink much anyway.
Whenever out on the prowl you are going to have operating costs. If they are too high for you, seek other ways to entertain yourself. I find creating a fun atmosphere is the most important thing when dating and picking up girls. Realistically though, the costs are not going to be incurred inherently by the girls. They are low-maintenance. Creating atmosphere is what costs a bit... but why go to the club and not spend money? Drinking and partying at the club is fun... but if its too expensive for you, arrange dates on the net or meet girls on the street and meet them somewhere less cost-intensive.
Mongering is an expensive hobby.. it involves flights, entertainment, paying for pros and hotels/apartments.... but if you are own a tight budget, there are ways to avoid excess costs.
Street Sleuth
02-18-07, 13:59
"I think your estimates are too high. You don't need to spend $50 on a date if you don't want to. Go to a cafe instead of a restaurant. Ukrainian girls don't eat much anyway."
Its a puzzle I have yet to solve. Why is that when I go out alone to a restaurant in Ukraine, the bill typically racks up to around $15, but when I go with a girl (that weighs on average 50 pounds less than me), the bill typically racks up to around $60?!
Street Sleuth
02-18-07, 14:04
My prior post was tongue in cheek (though I assure you the phenomenon is indeed real!).
However, in all seriousness, we can debate prices in Ukraine, and different lifestyles/strategies yield different living costs but, lets be clear, for the sake of the uninformed (those who haven't yet been to EE), Ukraine, and EE in general, is NOT for those on tight budgets.
Dr. Skank's observations are on the point. Sometimes it is enough to visit just a cafe with a girl. Of course these are the nice girls who do not hang around in clubs, discos etc. Dr. Skank seems very experienced and has certain ways to reduce the costs. I tried to figure out the situation for somebody who comes for first time and has limited experience.
I am impressed by Dr. Skank's knowledge of Slavic soul and his insightful remarks in all of his posts. Not only does he know exactly what is going on but he can make things work.
In order to impress a girl, I would visit a restaurant with her. Food and restaurants in Kiev are of average quality but they charge the same as west european ones. However the girls appreciate this more than their european counterparts. There are also very nice girls who do not want you to spend much on them and make every effort to reduce costs of you, are grateful to you for every little expense you make for them, they are diamonds of slavic soul. These girls know the value of money and try to protect you against anyone overcharging. The problem is that the usual tourist is not attracted or does not meet these good girls and instead he gets involved with girls in clubs etc who most of the time need a sponsor for their drinks and high-life. They do not hesitate to present him their girlfriends and propose to him a threesome relationship. However this means double expenses for him and better control for them. The time he is not with them they do not care what he is doing. They find it natural if he has other girlfriends since attraction by girls is regarded normal. Harem in these countries is something inevitable since there are many eager girls and few guys with money who can afford them. So she thinks since he is going to have more girlfriends why not introduce him to my girlfriend as to make her a favour and keep more control over him. This is a simple form of the dynamics but Dr. Skank has a deeper knowledge of the situation and can handle it more efficiently. In fact many times in Kiev I lost control which I usually kept in other places. Drinking last quantities with beauties in every place has surely to do with that.
I will describe an experience I had three years ago when I first came to kiev and stayed one week to show how was the situation then and how much it has changed. The second day walking in Kreshatik in midnight two beautiful girls (one blond, 174, slim, green eyes, typical slavic face, one brunette) stopped me and told me. Please could you give us 10 grivna? I could not believe such beauties were asking for money. I told them, what for? They told me, we want to go to the disco and we have no money for the taxi. I told them, O, K, why not going to disco with me? They answerd you may come with us. So we took a taxi and they asked the driver to go to disco Savak (dog). I thought it was a funny name for a disco. When we arrived in a dark area the girls asked for cigarettes and I bought them one packet. Then we entered the disco. What I saw is difficult to describe. Although it was Wednesday night there were people mostly girls dancing. Disco was dark, music strange, girls asked for a shampane, took my by hand and sat with me. With two slavic beauties and some hot girls around the spirit was good. The shampaigne cost 40 grivnas and the girls were grateful, they were in heaven. Then one of them introduced me to another girl who was dancing in the club, not very beautiful, a brunette with devastated face. The brunette asked me to dance with her. In the same time I noticed one girl in another company starting kissing deep tongue her girlfriend. Then she moved to the next girl and did the same. Then she kissed one more girl and she came to me. In front of the other girls she kissed me with tongue. It was a sensual experience. Next minute I saw an Ukrainian guy having a girl lying in front of him on the dance floor calling me to join him toughing her. I started dancing with the brunette that the girls I entered with introduced to me. Soon the lesbian who had kissed came to us and the brunette put her hand under her blouse and started playing with her tits. The lesbian had an expression of full satisfaction. I could not believe what was happening, how natural everything seemed to these people. After the dance I sat again with the two girls I came with. Then the brunette came to me and told me if I gave her 50$ she would sleep with me in the night. I told her I would like to stay a bit more. This because I had noticed a tall beauty, about 180cm dancing feverishely. She belonged to the company of the lesbian. I sat next to her, she told me she was a model. After a while we started dancing, she danced amazingly and after some minutes hot french kissing began. After dance we sat next to each other. Then the girls I came with decided to go home. I said them good-bye gave to them 10 grivna for the taxi and then kissed one of them in the mouth. They gave me their phone numbers and looked at me in the eyes. When I moved back I sat next to the model and started kissing her again. The brunette who made the proposition of 50$ told me she could not wait anymore we should go to hotel. I told her I needed to stay a bit more. Then she went into arguing with the model. The model told me to fix the situationI gave the brunette 20 grivnas for taxi to go home and she was happy, she told me you are a genleman. Then I got back to the model again who introduced me to another blond beauty friend of hers. I was between two hot girls having the one in my lap. Sensations were sharp but when I proposed her to come to hotel she refused and told me maybe tomorrow. We took a taxi with her friends which brought me to the hotel, she gave me her number and I went for some sleep deeply impressed by the unexpected night experience.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Toptraveler1
02-18-07, 21:56
Thank you for all your comments about the cost of living in Kiev but where you find the girls to take out?
Robert1110
02-18-07, 23:37
2. If a girl drinks in club you will have to pay about 50$ every 2 hours for your and har drinks and maybe the drinks of her girlfriends and this does not always garantee a lay with her or them later. In fact if you meet a girl in an average popular club and beginn to spend on her drinks it is likely she will date you next days but in order to become her lover she will ask for a present usually a mobile phone or something worth about 200-300$. You are supposed to pay for this, it is considered normal to buy a gift for her before. I am talking about normal girls, freebees not about pros.
This is a good topic. I'd like to discuss the gift "before". I do not like this. It does not gaurantee sex. The lady can disappear with a phone or a pair of boots. When they ask for anything other than the cost of my meeting with them, I tell them not until they are my girlfriend. If they walk, they were not going to put out anyway, IMHO.
Any comments? We want sex, they want money (in one form or another) who decided they get what they want first without any promise of getting laid?
I live here and routinely have ladies that range from will not accept a taxi home after sex, if the metro is running, to 100-250grivna. Anything above that and we're getting into the pro's. I have to include that I do not do the clubs and bars. It is mostly online or meeting on the streets, not k street.
I have a car and pick up girls with their hand out for a ride. Of course never ask for anything more than a phone number.
Robert1110
02-19-07, 09:44
2. If a girl drinks in club you will have to pay about 50$ every 2 hours for your and har drinks and maybe the drinks of her girlfriends and this does not always garantee a lay with her or them later. In fact if you meet a girl in an average popular club and beginn to spend on her drinks it is likely she will date you next days but in order to become her lover she will ask for a present usually a mobile phone or something worth about 200-300$. You are supposed to pay for this, it is considered normal to buy a gift for her before. I am talking about normal girls, freebees not about pros.
This is a good topic. I'd like to discuss the gift "before". I do not like this. It does not gaurantee sex. The lady can disappear with a phone or a pair of boots. When they ask for anything other than the cost of my meeting with them, I tell them not until they are my girlfriend. If they walk, they were not going to put out anyway, IMHO.
Any comments? We want sex, they want money (in one form or another) who decided they get what they want first without any promise of getting laid?
I live here and routinely have ladies that range from will not accept a taxi home after sex, if the metro is running, to 100-250grivna. Anything above that and we're getting into the pro's. I have to include that I do not do the clubs and bars. It is mostly online or meeting on the streets, not k street.
I have a car and pick up girls with their hand out for a ride. Of course never ask for anything more than a phone number.I did not see the "quote" feature until after this was posted (new here, sorry). The top papragraph should be in quotes.
I will add to this. In my opinion, any man who buys a phone or anything over the cost of a cafe or restuarant meeting is, well, a fool.
Do you think these ukrainian men are buying anything over $50 for a lady they are not having sex with? Do you do this back in the USA? The women do this because many american men who come here are stupid enough to actually think this (buying a phone or some other expensive gift) BEFORE sex is a requirement. I bet this man, if he has bought these gifts, is not telling us about the women he bought gifts for and did not get laid. In fact, I think it is misleading and dangerous for someone to come here and post as if it were a fact that we are to buy expensive presents for these ladies before sex. These women do this because so many american men are foolish enough to do this.
But, of course, as we all know, there is a sucker born every minute.
It is a pity these suckers then act as if they are some sort of authority (on something other than being a sucker).
I ought to have one of my girlfriends date this guy. I need a new phone.
Robert1110
02-19-07, 09:49
I just have to disagree that "normal" girls require a phone or some other equally expensive gift BEFORE sex.
I think this is very misleading and dangerous "information". It only perpetuates the false understanding that "normal" girls require expensive gifts before sex. You are being taken advantage of, to put it mildly and, you are misleading others.
This actually reveals why these women date you. It is for your money and your apparent willingness to part with it so easily.
100 to 250 hrv for a taxi? Inside the city center a taxi (not a private car) will cost you 20 hrv. You can take a taxi anywhere the metro goes for a max of 50 hrv. 80-100 hrv will take you to Bovary or Borispil. I never took a taxi for over 100 hrv so I don't know where 250 hrv will take you. The metro costs what, 50 kopecks?
Gifts? Normal girls do not take gifts for sex. If she needs a gift to get in the mood she is a semi pro or she really doesn't like you all that much.
Maybe somebody who lives in Kiev has the choice to reject a girl asking for a present. However things are more difficult for the traveller who is short of time and with limited future alternatives. The girl can set him under great pressure and he is more willing to pay a cost to get her soon.
Picking up girls in public places like Kreshatik or metro is almost impossible. The rejection is instant. The girls seldom reply and usually tend to avoid somebody trying to speak to them. Situation is a little better in cities in province.
Internet is good but girls who use internet for dating are usually loners, shy and reserved. This does not mean they are not willing, they just act strrange in some cases.
Girls who visit clubs often are the worst. These are the ones asking for presents, ignoring boyfriend provocatively and doing what they have in mind. Owever they are the most easy to approach in Kiev and practically most of acquaintances takes place at night in clubs or bars.
Cafes are not very good since one has to find a free seat next to some beauty and next minute the beauty may go away. Sometimes during the night girls drinking beer sit or walk along big streets and many guys try to pick them. Chances depend on time, luck and mood of girl.
In general it is possible to find a girlfriend in Kiev very soon after one arrives even in two days but he should take into cnsideration that.
1. During the day there is no pick-up action.
2. During the night certain expenses are needed.
3. Good girls who one may meet in afternoon, evening are not very sexual and they seek real relationship not just one night stand.
Something about the expenses.
Three years ago wages in Kiev were 150$ per month. In all Ukraine the average was 87$ per month. Now the average wage is 215$ per month and in Kiev it has reached 350$. This means that the girls now in Kiev are 2-3 times more difficult since they used to be three years ago because they make more money and as a reult they have more demands and now there are more rich and middle income Ukrainians who can afford them.
This means that for the same girl one needs three times more money, that he should search three times more (more dates without resulat) and that he can have three times less girls than before.
If h puts the same effort as three years ago he will get a girl three times worse that is instead of an 8 he will get a 5, maximum a 6 in the same amount of time. All this is for interest for people who visit the city for a short time.
Furthermore since inflation was steadily 10% and over during the last three years he will need to pay 50% more at least to get the same result. In fact somebody pays now more about double than in the past because the inflation of things related with dates suach as taxis, drinks, food in restaurant was greater than 10% every year and most probably prices have doubled since 2003. (For example taxi cost maximum 20 grivnas then if you see reports of that time. Now it costs 30-40 for a short distance and even 50-80 especially for the tourist. For three dates one needs taxi 8 times and this makes a spending of 50-70$ everyday just on taxi a reality).
Foreigners can feel all these things when they come to Kiev and see their money vanishing quickly. An positive for mongers consequence of the inflation is that many students have difficulty paying the rent and so they tend to find a sponsor if their work does not compensate them much. In this case sponsoring is reasonable but can turn to expensive if the girl sees weaknesses in the foreigner. Struggle for everything is common and if alternative solutions are few the girls get the upper hand.
Of course if somebody does not care to spend 600-800$ for a weekend fun, Kiev can turn into a heaven.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
One O Nine
02-19-07, 18:38
Thank you for all your comments about the cost of living in Kiev but where you find the girls to take out?Any disco on a Thursday, Friday and Saturday night will give you plenty of choices. More upscale, more expensive clubs like Pa Ti Pa and Decadence will have better quality girls, but they'll also be more demanding. Cheaper discos will have some rabble, but the girls will also be more eager. Many of the girls in the cheaper clubs can't even afford to get into the likes of Decadence, so they're likely to be more impressed with you and your money, and be more interested in sleeping with you quickly.
Your chances of taking a drunken hottie home from an uppity club like Pa Ti Pa are significantly smaller than from some mid-range club like Caribbean. Your chances of meeting a row of stunners at a club like Caribbean are significantly smaller than at a club like Pa Ti Pa. If you want to take a bunch of 8+'s out on dates, and don't mind being jerked around a bit, then go to one of the more expensive clubs. If you want to just get laid a lot, and don't mind setting your standards lower, then go to the cheaper clubs. I guess I'm not even sure why I'm writing this, since this is pretty much common sense.
The best plan is to get to Kiev on a Thursday afternoon, hit up the clubs the next three nights, and collect enough phone numbers to last you all of next week.
Picking up in the streets during the day is rather difficult,almost impossible.All action takes place in the night in discos.
Internet is good option for dates arranged for afternoon.
I think in cheaper discos there are also good quality girls but in the expensive ones(Decadence etc) the density of beauties is higher,that is every girl is stunning.(I think they do not allow girls with average looks enter).
Three years ago the wages in Kiev were 150$ and in Ukraine 87$ per month.
Now average wages stand for 215$ per month for whole Ukraine and 350$ for Kiev.This means that now it is three times more difficult to get the same girl,somebody should make three times more effort and end with a girl less attractive than three years ago since now girls make more money(this makes them more demanding) and there are more ukrainians with enough incomes who can afford them.
Furthermore prices are now 40% higher than three years ago since there has been steady inflation of 10% on average in the last three years.However inflation regarding things having to do with dating(taxis,food in restaurants) has been higher and as a result somebody needs to spend double than in the past to get a girl that as I wrote before is likely to be of lower range in the same amount of time,let us say if for example in the past one got laid every three days with a 7-8,now because only of economic reasons he will be laid with a 5-6 every three days spending double money than before and spending much more on dates without result.
Rise of wages had the positive result that most beautiful girls are gathered in Kiev,raising the percentage of hotties.
On the other hand the inflation led some students being engaged in sponsoring in order to be able to pay the rent.
These two are beneficial effects for the mongers and tend to balance in some proportion the negatives,that is now some very top,stunning beauties are available who just were not there in the past but they can only be hooked by people with big budgets.
Doctor_Skank
02-19-07, 22:53
Any disco on a Thursday, Friday and Saturday night will give you plenty of choices. More upscale, more expensive clubs like Pa Ti Pa and Decadence will have better quality girls, but they'll also be more demanding. Cheaper discos will have some rabble, but the girls will also be more eager. Many of the girls in the cheaper clubs can't even afford to get into the likes of Decadence, so they're likely to be more impressed with you and your money, and be more interested in sleeping with you quickly.
Your chances of taking a drunken hottie home from an uppity club like Pa Ti Pa are significantly smaller than from some mid-range club like Caribbean. Your chances of meeting a row of stunners at a club like Caribbean are significantly smaller than at a club like Pa Ti Pa. If you want to take a bunch of 8+'s out on dates, and don't mind being jerked around a bit, then go to one of the more expensive clubs. If you want to just get laid a lot, and don't mind setting your standards lower, then go to the cheaper clubs. I guess I'm not even sure why I'm writing this, since this is pretty much common sense.
The best plan is to get to Kiev on a Thursday afternoon, hit up the clubs the next three nights, and collect enough phone numbers to last you all of next week.
Live and learn from 109. Simple truth.
1) No
2) No
3) No - Yes
If you give me $50 Hecker I'll tell you all the things you are doing wrong.
But you are right, the p4p girls are much less umm, desperate then they used to be. Sure wages are increasing but cost are far out pacing the increase. There is simply more demand for the girls, so the prices go up.
Here is a simple tip for you for free; meet the girls at a place close to your apartment.
And hey Mr. Editor, want to back away from that report of distinction button? I think it goes off every time you sneeze.
1. During the day there is no pick-up action.
2. During the night certain expenses are needed.
3. Good girls who one may meet in afternoon, evening are not very sexual and they seek real relationship not just one night stand.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Doctor_Skank
02-19-07, 23:27
1) No
2) No
3) No - Yes
If you give me $50 Hecker I'll tell you all the things you are doing wrong.
But you are right, the p4p girls are much less umm, desperate then they used to be. Sure wages are increasing but cost are far out pacing the increase. There is simply more demand for the girls, so the prices go up.
Here is a simple tip for you for free; meet the girls at a place close to your apartment.
And hey Mr. Editor, want to back away from that report of distinction button? I think it goes off every time you sneeze.
Darn you Cruiser, you beat me to it!
Hecker, no offense, but I really think you are doing something wrong. It's possible for anybody to get rejected by a UKR girl, has happened to all of us. But no need to generalize, and certainly no reason to believe that spending money in amount "x" will get you laid. Money can HELP you get laid if properly applied, but is by no means the reason you get laid. It's a combination of many things, the most deciding factors being confidence, cultural understanding and communication skills.
Pickup times:
Afternoon can be a great time to meet girls. There is no bad or wrong time to chat up girls. Metro may be bad if everybody's in a hurry, but the street is fine. Anywhere, anytime. All you need is a phone number.
Club girls:
Regular club girls are a tough nut to crack, absolutely true. But they have buttons to push too. Play your cards right and display some cultural intuition, and the club crowd is yours to enjoy. It isn't going to happen overnight though, it takes time to network and gain trust and respect. You are right that they are usually not a great option for a tourist, but don't write them off as untouchable. That's not true. Trust me, I know. They are some of the wildest girls you'll ever meet. If you are going to spend money on them, do it wisely and to YOUR benefit and not theirs.
Presents:
You never have to buy anyone a fucking phone, EVER. It's wrong, bro. Girls don't need presents up front. If I was buying phones to get laid, I'd feel like a tool. Hos are cheaper than $400 phones. I've never met a UKR girl that doesn't already have a phone. If you want to spend money on a chick buy bondage equipment, lube and crotchless underwear.
I did give a girl a phone once, though. A Moldovan ho in Moscow who fucked me all night on her 18th birthday for $100. She showed me her passport. It was her birthday. Nobody should have to fuck a stranger on her birthday. She was so happy she cried. Exceptions to every rule.
Sponsorship:
Sponsorship is fairly widespread among certain limited circles, but don't overestimate it. Most girls have only vaguely heard of the concept. It's part of a world most of us will never be exposed to, including the majority of UKR girls. Don't try to compete with the local sponsors, it's not worth it. There are plenty of other ways to get laid and maintain some self-respect.
Type of club:
Elite clubs vs. middle tier clubs. Read 109's post, it says it all.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=564768&postcount=2643
Both have advantages and disadvantages. I go to both kinds, depending on mood. Sometimes a feisty easy 7 suits me perfectly. Other days, I want a more challenging trophy fuck. If I go home alone on any given night, I write it off and move on. If I wake up next to a hottie I bless the day I was born and wonder why I got so lucky. Then I get up, brush my teeth and crawl back in bad, start kissing her awake and fuck her again.
Good luck and happy hunting, but keep the momentum on your side. Don't surrender the initiative and control to the girls. They'll eat you alive.
Robert1110
02-19-07, 23:45
I disagree that "good girls" are not as sexual. I have a very good girl and I do not give her enough sex. The difference I think, is a "good girl" is not going to either/or 1) have sex as quick; 2) be a lot more selective and 3) is looking for more serious relations, generally speaking.
The problem I had with the poster discribing girls who want a phone or some other equally expensive gift as "normal" girls is that it is misleading. Normal girls will not accept and will in fact be offended at the offer of gifts if they think it is directly related to getting laid (of course it always is), but if they think you now expect sex, they will think you have no respect for them. I have learned to say "I hope you will not be offended if I offer you taxi money" to some girls. Some girls expect a taxi, others would not think of it unless the metro is closed.
There are plenty of "normal" girls who love sex in this country. They are becoming more difficult to find but they are here. I have one. She is not from kiev.
Most beautiful women let the attention go to their head and they become "spoiled" from the attention, forgetting that all men are not alike yet treating us all as if we are. Finding a beauty that has not let their beauty go to their heads is the problem. If you are looking a for a"normal" girl, one good enough to invest your time and resources into a serious relationship you probably are not posting here. ;.)
To get the attention of a beautiful woman who is hit on constantly every moment she is in public takes a different approach that will separate you from the rest. They hear it all day every day from all types of men from all walks of life.
I ask my (main) girl about this and it is interesting to listen to her response.
Actually, like him or not, the connection knows what he is doing in regards to a particular type and age of woman but the principles are the same. I do not want to be a schill for david deangelo but he has some very good material on the dynamics of attraction.
I have watched many times how the russian/ukrainian men are hard to say "no" to for anything, including me. Now do not get the wrong idea you pervs, I have tried to say "no" to drinking vodka to a group of russians partying at a cafe on the beach in Foros, krym. They see me every summer for the past 4 years. There is just no saying "no" to these guys if they like you and they want you to drink with them. They are extremely persuasive and will not take "NO" for an answer.
The ukrainian/russian men are the same way with women. I saw these guys with a different set of women at their table every night. During the day, they would see 2-3 girls without guys and talk them up and invite them to the cafe. There the drinking and partying begins and well, you know how they drink.
One night 2 20-21 yr old beauties from poland were with these russians. They did not understand russian but that did not stop these guys from subtly (sp? ) pressuring these girls into doing whatever they wanted. I am fairly sure, even though these girls were trying to use me as a buffer from these men, they probabaly ended up in the bed of one of these guys.
It is just they way they are here.
We amercian men lost this touch and lost control of our "manhood" to the poilitcal correctness of a feminized society. It is all BS.
Russian/ukrainian men laugh at us for what we let these women get away with. Buy a mobile for for a "normal" girl?
These guys might take a girl out on a nice date but they are NOT going to spend money or buy expensive gifts for a woman they are not having sex with, and, if they do, the woman knows she is NOT going to get away with "well, I want to, but it is 'women's day' tonight" at the end of the evening. The woman KNOWS she is putting out to the are/UA man who buys her such a gift and it is usually not a serious relationship.
It is all about money.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
I do not advice somebody to pay for a mobile phone. I write what many girls ask for. I have done this only once to have the girl quickly due to lack of time.
I try to avoid buying drinks etc but there are girls who just drink and man is supposed to pay. Many chicks in clubs do exactly that.
Many girls ask for presents after having had sex or they promise threesomes if you buy them something.
I do not know how it is possible to avoid expenses if hanging out with two, three girls. Personality matters of course.
As for sponsoring I had an adventure with one student who asked for 50$ for her and 50$ for each of her three girlfriends to stay all night with me. It was cool experience with four girls sucking one after the other. She did many things and agreed licking ass etc. She told me some students have sponsors.
I have video of action with them but I cannot show.
Funny was that my girlfriend from another city called me anxious and told me she was sure I was with a girl in the apartment. I anwered her this is not true. (I did not lie I was with four).
Street Sleuth
02-20-07, 00:20
And you, Dr. Skank, beat me to the obersvation I was going to make - all this talk of needing to buy girls cell-phones - I, too, have never met a girl in Ukraine without a cellphone.
I have, however, been perplexed at how girls with $200/month incomes can afford to buy $300 cellphones (it truly is amazing that almost every girl not only has a cellphone, but a top of the line model...).
The puzzle, however, may have been solved - their phones have been gifted by prior mongers!
On a more normal note - the whole idea of needing to blow huges wads of cash on girls is out of whack. There are only two types of girls that are worthwhile, as far as I am concerned (and this is true basically worldwide):
1) P4P (both semi-pro and pro)
2) Good hearted, non pros.
Anything in-between isn't worth the trouble. Buy a $200+ gift for a girl that demands it, then may or may not have sex with you? The only difference between her and a #1 (see above) is that she is at the very least dishonest and overpriced, at the worst a total ripoff. Stop decieving yourself, and go with a P4P.
Sure, we all like the idea of hot girls ready and willing to have one-night stands, for nothing in return - but this isn't generally realistic. It happens, but not worth wasting too much time trying to find it - especially in EE (one night stands are actually more common, I find, in U.S. and North-Western Europe).
Street Sleuth
02-20-07, 00:24
That being said, EE is no longer (if it ever really was) a cheap place to monger - either for P4P or regular girls. Its not necessarily the direct cost of the girls (good hearted girls won't have much, if any, direct costs), its the indirect cost of the overall atmosphere....apartments, cabs, restaurants, etc. not so cheap as one might expect, given the low wages, even without gifting cellphones....
It's hard for Americans to believe but mobile phones are status symbols in the FSU. Good girls who have top of the line phones got them because they are living with Mom and Dad and have no real expenses. This of course applies to the $400 and under phones not the super silly fashion phones.
My friends and I have a possible NO GO criteria for girls - Expensive mobile phone, speaks english very well, has numerous discount cards, the clincher is if she tends to go on a lot of out of country trips. This girl is commonly known as the Kiev Player. It is recommended that 95% of the people who read this board avoid her.
Street, Kiev used to be a cheap place to go to until just after the Orange Revolution. You used to be able to get 1k/monthly rents for a remodel Western place in the city center with no problem. You want to spend 1k on a Western place you'd better stock up on your metro tokens. Girls used to be 150/max at RP for all night. Eurovision in 2004 really lit the fuse. Kiev is not cheap, I am in Miami right now for a vacation from my vacation and I will either spend the same as in Kiev or a little less. Oh and it's 10:30 at night and it's 69 degrees..;)
LifeSavour
02-20-07, 08:15
And you, Dr. Skank, beat me to the obersvation I was going to make - all this talk of needing to buy girls cell-phones - I, too, have never met a girl in Ukraine without a cellphone.The babe is writing me on the net! She wants me! "Hey I want to call you?"
Sorry 'Guy', I have NO mobile! ha
Scammer - 'bye - bye'!
LS Guy
LifeSavour
02-20-07, 08:34
I disagree...
Most beautiful women let the attention go to their head and they become "spoiled" from the attention, forgetting that all men are not alike yet treating us all as if we are. Finding a beauty that has not let their beauty go to their heads is the problem. If you are looking a for a"normal" girl, one good enough to invest your time and resources into a serious relationship you probably are not posting here. ;.)
It is all about money.Right ARM Robertooo! You must remember these women. ALL (well 90%).come from 'dysfunctional' families! They also have grown UP with all forms of aggression. Almost 24/7! They are not taught 'social skills! Please/Thank You. They 'call a spade a spade'. Even if it offends YOU!
Their language is 'synthetic' and the proper use of grammar depends on 'inflection' of words / syllables. Have YOU ever listened to mama and daughter have a normal conversation that begins to elevate in 'decibels' and you swear they are arguing? I told my Elena that if my 16 yr old son spoke to me like that I would smack him! She said what? We were not mad or arguing. It is normal!
I have had more success getting a babe's attention when after she insults me I call her stupid, or rude, or not worthy of my time. See, she is used to the guy crawling away with his tail between his 'balls'! With the rebuke she now sees you as a different guy. Who does not take any sh_t! Perhaps POWER shows and they LIKE IT!
Nice guys do well here, but 'whimps' go without unless they 'pay thru the nose'!
LS Guy
I agree with Robert that some Russians,Ukrainians have excellent pick-up skills and communicate easily with the ladies.They are seductive and when going to other western countries continue to have success.
These people wre extremely good in talking.They understand the chicks' world and talk to them effectively.I was surprised seeing how easily they could carry a conversation without pick-up lines, guidelines etc. just relying on experience and empathy.
I think these men are far more experienced than Westerners and have been exposed far more times to female company.
One O Nine
02-20-07, 18:16
Local men are good at picking up girls because the girls are more receptive to being picked up by them. These men are local, they speak the same language, and share the same culture. With a foreigner, a girl knows that he's in and out, meaning he'll be a quick fling. A local man obviously offers much more stability. And sharing a language and common culture is very important to building a connection.
Of course, there are the foreigner chasing girls, who either stereotype the locals as mindless brutes who don't know how to treat a girl, who see you as their ticket out of Ukraine, or who look for oafs who'll give them cell phones and expensive gifts.
I personally find that with freebies, emphasizing your wallet or your foreignness is a first-class ticket to Rejection-ville. The most common reaction will be "who does he think he is, some country girl who'll sleep with him just because he's from Des Moines?" or "who does he think he is, I'm not for sale". Trying to buy a regular girl is generally a very bad idea, because she'll feel it and detest it; or otherwise make you for a clutz and try to take you for all you've got.
And regarding these girls having $300 cell phones, that's nothing unusual, and nothing suspicious. We grew up with a completely different mentality so it's hard for us to grasp, but the Russians are used to completely different economic conditions. These girls, their parents, and their grandparents always lived with desirable goods costing more than their monthly salaries. In the Soviet times, with an average salary of 100 roubles / month, a good pair of winter boots cost 150; and yet everybody stood in lines for them and bought them, and none of them had sponsors. There's a whole culture of living small and saving month-to-month, and then borrowing from friends and repaying in installments, all in order to buy that one or two desirable items a year.
Besides if you go to a bazaar, you'll find lots of used (often stolen) $300 phones for maybe 30 bucks or less.
So in short, it's really wrong to assume that just because a girl has some expensive items, she has any disposable income.
1)
And hey Mr. Editor, want to back away from that report of distinction button? I think it goes off every time you sneeze.LOL! If you have a moment, have a look over in the Macau forum for a truly distinctive report that wasn't even flagged by the sneeze button at all.
Thanks to 109 for good analysis of ukrainian men advantages and attitude of girls.
I agree that people in this country can live on a very low budget cutting expenses.I once lived with a girlfriend in her flat and she did not want to spend anything.I was stunned to realize that after one week staying with her I had only spent 150$ including present I gave her,that is 100$ for me and her going out every day eating in restaurants etc.She just knew what places to avoid and where to go and every I paid seemed ridiculously small.She told me you foreigners throw your money out of the window.
In Ukraine, everything is possible.
Having spent 2 years visiting and now living in Kiev, my best estimation for chances of success in Kiev are 50/50….you will or you won’t.
1. It’s still possible to pull on Kreschatyk.
2. It’s possible to go out on St Valentines night to a club, spend $250 and go home alone.
3. It’s possible to walk in to a club, talk to a girl at the bar before managing to buy even yourself a drink, kiss her, take her home, have a great night and never know how it happened.
4. It’s possible to be home, get a call from a girl you talked only online to, asking if she can come over and if you have a friend for her friend. I was the friend in this case.
5. It’s possible to go to River Palace at 5am after striking out in a club, take Olya from Odessa for $75 for 3 hours and she stays for 8 hours.
6. It’s possible to visit Kharkov and have 3somes for $50.
7. It’s possible to “sponsor” 2 bisexual girls to visit the bright lights of Kiev for 4 days for $250 each.
8. It’s possible to send 1 of your girlfriends around to your friend as you’re busy and he is horny.
Finding girls in Kiev?
1. The street
2. The metro
3. Shops
4. Internet
5. Clubs
6. Cafes
7. Buses
8. Planes
9. Trains
10. Automobiles
Hecker, I'm confused.. Kiev is cheap or Kiev is expensive?
You need to buy girls mobile phones in order to fuck them or taking them out to Mr Snack and living at their place is fine? Oh, you misspoke; you only need to buy girl(s) mobile phones if you want a threesome?
You posted three or four long reports and then posted a 5 line report saying the opposite.
What no report of distinction?
Speaking of sexy phones, 109 are you waiting for someone to sponsor you and buy you one? ;) For a Russian your attitude towards mobile phones is very American. :P
Life - Dysfunctional families? Lack of social skills? Never say 'please, thank you'? What are you talking about? I should have met you when I was still in Kiev to make sure we are both talking about the same place.
Irish, how was Kharkov? I had almost no luck when I went there last year. Did you go to meet someone?
What I wrote last time regarded girls from province. They are less demanding and province is cheaper. Of course there are there girls asking for handys also but they offer more to a boyfriend before getting them.
I made a distinction between good girls who have real feelings and do not want you to spend to much and dolce vita girls who want you to spend as much as possible on them. Some of the good girls may regard a foreigner as a future groom and think if I am going to ask a lot he will not want to marry me or something like that. This leads to a better treatment.
On the other hand there also girls in clubs, discos or also in internet who are interested in just having a good time with a boy who can afford expenses. Since he is foreigner and seems exotic to them they are attracted to him, maybe only sexually or they have true feelings towards him, in fact all these are mixed in cities like Kiev. I mean such a girl probably loves a wealthy guy but if he did not have this wealth she would not love him. Because in her mind he and his wealth are combined. If the wealth is missing he becomes a different person for her. I do not know if this discussion is important at all.
As for metro I found it extremely difficult to get phone numbers in metro in comparison to other cities like Prague. Girls are very negative to guys trying to approach them and everybody is in a hurry. Hunting in metro and Kreshatik does not seem to me a good idea. Girls sitting and drinking beer are approached by guys all the time, I doubt if they have any true interst in them.
On the other hand being in a club like Decadence show more prestige, somebody is judged as a more important person especially if he is dressed well. Women there look like models and find it normal to talk to guys approaching them. When I was in Kiev last summer I noticed many foreigners trying to start a conversation with the ladies speaking with them a few minutes while the girls smiled and then these guys returned to their place without any success. I also noticed some ukrainian sponsors who sat with other girls while their girlfriends danced. If you approached any of the girls in their company they just came and tell you to get away since all these girls belonged to them. I got two phone numbers, one from a hot girl from Odessa whose buttocks showed completely when dancing in an extremely short dress.
She let me tough her anywhere but when I called her back the next day she found an excuse not to meet.
The same is in province. Most girls giving numbers in the club just do not want to meet the next day. That is why I try to get them home after meeting them in the same night. If I fail, 90% do not want to meet the next day.
I agree with Irish Lad that everything is possible but I consider the price though. I mean sponsorship of 250$ for four days is acceptable but for 500$ for example is not. Cost of 50$ for a date with a girl from internet or club sounds reasonable but 150$ for two hours in disco is not.
Problem is some girls view it differently, they have no sense for the money and find it normal to have you spend 200$ for them for just a date or ask for expensive mobile phones from first meeting. If somebody proves weak they raise their demands. Chicks have a completely other view of money, our value and their value than the one we have.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
One O Nine
02-21-07, 17:30
Speaking of sexy phones, 109 are you waiting for someone to sponsor you and buy you one? ;) For a Russian your attitude towards mobile phones is very American. :PI'm a proud owner of a fancy new Nokia N93i, a Europe-only model. I may be the only one in California to have one. 3.4 Megapixel, 1 gig of memory, video camera, etc.
When I twist it around and turn it into a video camera, people do a triple take. Chances are, when I walk down K-street and whip it out, I'll be knee deep in girls within minutes.
Where have I seen that phone before? You can buy the N93i in the US. But the real question is who bought you a $800 phone and WHAT did you have to do for it. That phone is sexy. I remember bringing a Razr to Kiev in May of 2004 - no one knew what it was - girls were lining up just to touch it. I remember my main gf of the time telling me she didn't like my phone because it was too big. We went to Fellini's for dinner and she saw some model on F TV licking a Razr. Oh, is that your phone she said? Who's your daddy now...Kiev is so priceless, I love it. Where else can you get laid because of your cell phone? In the US you have to have at least a hot car. ;) Seven months later every other person with a mobile phone in Kiev had a Razr. I almost left my Razr with someone when I left Kiev last week but I doubt she would have took it. Besides, the SIM card is full and there are another 250 phone number in the phone memory. The phone - an original V3 is worth about $5. But the numbers and the pictures it has taken are priceless.
Yes, yes, Hecker, quite right, quite right.
I think the editor is just taunting me now.
Robert1110
02-21-07, 20:28
Half the girls on K Street already have that phone crusier. ;.)
Seriously. I did see one girl who had one. I see some real good phones, sometimes 2, in the hands of these girls. It is a cool phone.
It is hit or miss here. I went to k street to meet a girl from the internet. While I was waiting for her, I need to move the bench seat back as they were pushed too close to the table. I had to ask the girl on the seat behind me to move hers up so I could move mine back. She was young, spoke english and she and her friend were pounding back the tequila. I was impressed. And it was only 16: 00
Long story short, got the number of the one I asked to move her seat. She flirted with me when she would go to the bathroom and come back. In a way that the girl I was meeting would not see.
After my meeting was over, I turned around, chatted them up a bit, was invited to sit and drink with them. The other girl lives with her extemely rich 30yr old BF, a ukrainian who apparently owns several companies and builds factories. She was chunky by my standards and maybe a 6-7 in the face. I thought a rich ukrainan could do better. But she says she only sees him early in the morning and then at midnight so. Her friend, the one I have the number, is the company translator. The rich BF is out of the country so the girls are partying. They left to go to avalon. And I know they were feeling the effects of at least 5 rounds or more of tequila. I'll give her a chance to SMS me and if not, I'll sms her in a couple days and see if she wants to meet. She told me a few times I was a nice man or something like that. I can talk in the right situations and have a small game going for me.
All you have to do is be in a situation where you can strike up any conversation. I think it is 109 that says something about most americans do not have any "game" and that was the my case. I had to devlop my game here and it came with a better understanding of the culture and the woman here. I was one of those men who would come here for a month and meet the agency girls. You bet I got played until I saw what was going on. I only would get taken adavantage of once in any particualr manner, but they have many methods.
In the USA, it was easy for me. I know the rules. I got laid so much over the years I quit counting. I also agree with whoever said that american girls are far easier to score with on the first meeting or date. I also agree with whoever posted about the russian men having it easier for the same reasons we have it easier at home (of course, the american girls would fall for the accent and the unusualness, just as some women do here). They have the language, the knowledge of what's going on. And they well. Live here. I have found it is a distinct advantage to tell these ladies I live here and intend to stay for some time.
Back to the games they will play. (this happened about 2 years ago. I have learned a lot since then)
I have been contacted by a lady I met maybe a year ago at some agency party. She will sms me and tell me she is at a club (carrabean).come join her. Stupid me. I go, we drink, I have to pick up her prior tab (along with her GF), I find this out as I am getting our coats to leave. The bartender comes up presenting me with her bill. I turn to her, understand what she is doing and I basically make her promise me sex for getting the bill. She is holding on to me, agreeing. We had talked about sex back at the table while drinking. So she was "playing" along.
We get the taxi. We drop her friend off on k street. It is only a 2 blocks from my flat at the time. She will not get out of the taxi. Says it is her "woman's days". I know this is BS. In fact, if I ever hear it again, I am going to tell the girl to prove it. And I'm serious.
So I say. "ok, but as soon as you are ready, you're coming to me". Of course she says ok.
Next day I get sms. "all you want is sex".
Never saw her again and last I heard, she is married to the mule she used to get the the USA and nearer to her sister in ohio.
What first amazed me is how much some of these girls will do to get so little. The effort and time they put into getting a $30 handbag.
So. I have learned. Unless she is really special, I spend next to nothing but cafe's, drinks, small meals, maybe a inexpensive gift for the the ballet. But until they are steadliy fucking me, they are not getting anything more.
With girls I just want to fuck. I will do first meetings in the center. I live (to the girls) "far away". But if I can, I do first meetings close to my flat. Certainly second meetings.
In fact, lack of good english can be good. I use the "let's use my notebook back at my flat" trick.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Spanish Fly
02-22-07, 04:43
I just got to Kiev for a 5 days bussinpleasure trip.
Arrived at Midnight, got a ride from my regular driver (well, saying regular is maybe too much, it's my third trip to Kiev), and off we go to my apartment. Close to K street, newly renovated, jacuzzi, fast internet, nice tv and stereo, etc. (of course in a SHITTY soviet building) 140USD a day. Maybe a little bit too much, but not so bad for a last minute reservation. Certainly a much better value for the money that my last visit to Ukraine Hotel in Moscow at 220USD a night.
After the necessary shower, I ask my driver that I want to have a beer and he takes me to Pa-Ti-Pa, but they are closing (2: 30 am on a Wednesday) and we go to a small club called "DISCO" (appearently it just have changed the name). Almost no people at all (3-4 girls dancing, 7-8 guys looking them ansxiously from the bar. I decide to leave after the first beer and no better expectations.
Let's hit RP! (something like last chance at 3: 00am, especially if you have to work in the morning and you just landed). We got there, the usual crowd, and some good material. Some familiar faces (girls) from my last visit, and after drinking the first Jack Daniels and watch the scene from one of the dance floor small tables, I got up and go to the bar. I feel surprinsingly selective tonight, and I am about to leave the place with empy hands when I spot this gorgous Masha girl (blond, 1. 70m, around 20y. O. PERFECT tits, close-to-perfect eyes, next-door type girl, just the way I like them.
But, too bad, she is talking to this american guy who seems to be trying to convince her of something. After a few seconds she spots me and makes me a signal of waiting while she gets rid of the guy (after that, she claims she have been almost harrased by this guy, for two years, she says, wanting her for free.)
To cut a long story short, her first offer is 300USD for 1 hour (I almost die from laughing) quickly droping to 150 for 2 hours (hey, it's 3: 45am! ). Thanks to this forum fot the never-to-miss hint of negotiation EVERYTHING before, because when we were almost leaving the place, I say that BBJ is a must for me, and she backs up. (No, no, no. Blah, blah, blah.) In a desperate moment, I rise the offer to 200USD and even 250USD (actually, my little friend took over during this part of the negotiation, and to my shocking face, she REFUSES. Hey, when has this country gone to hell?
I left her my number in case she changes her mind (I don't actually expect a call, but hell, who knows.), and leave the place, half shocked, half upset, half frustrated. Actually too frustrated to pick another girl, so I am writing you this report, back at my apartment, ALONE!
Strike One. All right, don't panic! I am cutting my losses, and keeping my forces for tomorrow, Thursday, when I will be sampling the freebie market. I will keep you posted.
If anyone in the forum is around and want to share a table and a few beers at some local facility, PM me.
By the way, it's 16 ºC and dropping. Lousy choice for a mongering weeking.
One last question to the forum. Better alternatives for normal/semi-pros on a wednesady night?
Regards from the chilly Kiev.
I have also noticed that american girls behave much differently. Once an american girl left me because she said in USA I was treated as a queen by my boyfriend and american boys know how to treat women like princesses. These girls have certain guidelines and are influenced by feminism.
In Ukraine, Russia somebody has to understand the slavicorthodox mentality of giving and being generous, that is the girl gives plenty of love and expects you to give plenty of emotion, or even financial help, whatever you have. She offers and waits for offer, if you offer she will offer you back. (Now westernization changes it gradually). This is not the case in catholic countries (Poland) where there are strong ethics and rules. It does also not regard protestant countries (free beahaviour, atomic responsibility). In catholic countries the girl will punish you if she does not like your behaviour, in orthodox countries she will give more love to compensate for something she thinks she has done wrong.
I noticed in Carribean club an american starting to speak with the girl I had picked up there. I was amazed, he knew russian phrases and was doing exactly the right thing, asking the right questions, etc. However it was very mechanical, he lacked the soul. On the other hand british guys who completely lack any pick-up skills and just cannot talk and behave the right way to girls get laid all the time. It is impossible to pick up girls when there are british guys around. I think their attitude brings it, arrogance, british charm, they seem more interesting, extraordinary. Italians are also good they can talk to girls very well, they are dressed in fashion, are superficial and very pleasant. They tend to bring girls to larger companies where they create a lot of fun with their friends. Arabs, Turks are dangerous, they just try to not let you approach the girls they want to hit and like Latins have a pretty much macho attitude.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Robert1110
02-22-07, 12:43
It is amazing how difficult it is to find BBBJ on the pro scene. There is one website (and I will try and find, I think it has been mentioned here) and it features nearly all the women will do BBBJ.
On the other hand, my semi-pros and "normal" girls do BBBJ and most no condom at all. These 2-3 (and it rotates, one drops out and a new one is added) girls are my "regulars" and usually are single or divorced mothers. If they have other men, I think it is the same situaion, the see the same guy for as long as he does not tire of them.
And I guess that is part of the equation. How fast do you tire of them?
Charlie Sheen is famous for saying "You do not pay a prostitute for sex, you pay them to leave".
It is very true. How many times have you fucked a girl, cum still in her hair and face and you cannot get rid of her fast enough?
If I see a girl once or twice a week, it seems to be the best. I am happy to see and fuck them again and it has been long enough that I am not tired of them.
It is interesting to me actually, that I am finding that a woman to me is a matter of degree to how much I want her to stick around if we are not fucking.
I think they range from girls who I want to send away as soon as possible after sex (the vast majority) to girls I actually like and do not mind them hanging around (usually for more sex) to those (one) who I can have in my flat for a week or two and not tire of her.
Unfortunately, this one is the one I desire sex with the least. And she is the best girl (in terms of looks and personality) of them all. Just my luck. I find the "perfect" girl and I do not like fucking her. I'd rather fuck any other girl. It's that bad. Nothing wrong with her, she is just not the girl I like in bed.
I am 50, she is 23 and most guys will agree a solid 8 at least. She would make a perfect wife if I had the desire to fuck her 2, 3, 4 times a day.
Cuts my hair, "deletes" my "ear beard", prepares so much food for me it spoils before I can eat it all, cleans my flat. She says she is taking care of her "pig". If I married this girl, she would wipe my ass and change my "depends" until the day I croak in her loving arms.
And, all the while I can be sitting at the computer trying to find another girl to fuck and she will help me. She will call them for me if they do not speak good english and help me to meet them.
When I go to her city, she basically lives with me, going to work during the day. I see the girls I can see during the day and if I have to see a girl in the evening, I tell her I will call her and tell her when she can come "home".
She has found a bra and panties in the bedsheets from 2 different 18yr olds I had at the same time. (I swear women do this on purpose so you get busted by the next girl). What did she do? Threw them in the trash, changed the sheets on the bed and I fucked her that night. Off to work the next morning, leaving me to see my other girls.
I think there are 3 major levels in the brain and I think the quality of the relatinship depends largely on how well you connect on these levels.
I have read about the "triune" brain. Briefly, there are 3 centers of the brain. The body (sex), the heart (emotions) and the mind (intellect).
I think most of these sex encounters we all have are with women we connect with, of course, with the body, or sexual desires we all have. If you start connecting on an emotional and/or intellectual level, I think the interest in each other beyond sex develops and this is where we start having deeper or more serious relations, if that is what you are looking for or want. I think even if it is something you are not looking for, it happens if you meet that right combination in any particular girl.
I think if I find a girl I connect with on all three levels, I'll run off with her and live near the sea in crimea or something and fuck her brains out until I die. Preferably of a sudden heart attack during sex.
Which phone are you talking about Robert? The Razr or the N93i? The Razr was all over the place this time last year in Kiev. You see less of it now because it is passe - Samsung sliders seem to be the current 'in' phone. The upscale girls seem to be carrying the long slim metallic Nokia slider, the one with the battery that last about an hour, most of them are already on their sponor to buy them a Sirrocco (take note Hecker). You won't be seeing much of the N93i in Kiev, it's too big and too much of a techie phone. Anyone who has the $1k+ it costs in Kiev to drop on it is going to buy a fashion phone. BTW - the video I posted of the Connection was taken using a N93. Considering the camera was about 30 meters away it does a good job.
Spanish, I'm not at all surprised that the girls at RP are refusing to do BBBJ's. Most of the pro's won't do it anymore and only a small percentage of the semi pro's. Either it goes hand in hand with the $300/hr prices or too many of the girls were getting HSV or HPV.
Doctor_Skank
02-22-07, 15:24
Spanish:
Cruiser is right.
The days of most pros doing BBBJ with first time clients are "almost" over.
In fact, even 3 years ago it became less and less common.
Here some ideas:
* Asking for "the menu" upfront can work with many girls, but very few will say they do BBBJ upfront. You have a much better chance to get this just by creating great atmosphere and real connection back in your apartment/hotel. They're just girls and you can talk them into "almost" anything.
* I don't blame the girls at all. It's their health.
* Many clubs, especially salons etc. FORBID their girls to do it. Pickup bars/clubs ala RO and NF (Moscow) don't forbid the girls, but most avoid it unless the really trust the guy. They know they don't have to with Western clients and there is no reason to take extra health risks.
* I agree that it really sucks! BBBJ is one of life's greatest pleasures.
* Best pro-BBBJ is in German FKKs. It's standard.
* BBBJ is Yanukovich-era. CBJ is soooo Yuschenko. I hate that crater-faced bastard and what he's done to Ukraine.
* Get yourself a normal girlfriend. They don't even know what CBJ is.
* Don't give up on it, many still will if given the right motivation.
Good luck fellas, and thanks for all the great reports lately. Good work all!
Robert1110
02-22-07, 16:47
Which phone are you talking about Robert? The Razr or the N93i? The Razr was all over the place this time last year in Kiev. You see less of it now because it is passe - Samsung sliders seem to be the current 'in' phone. The upscale girls seem to be carrying the long slim metallic Nokia slider, the one with the battery that last about an hour, most of them are already on their sponor to buy them a Sirrocco (take note Hecker). You won't be seeing much of the N93i in Kiev, it's too big and too much of a techie phone. Anyone who has the $1k+ it costs in Kiev to drop on it is going to buy a fashion phone. BTW - the video I posted of the Connection was taken using a N93. Considering the camera was about 30 meters away it does a good job.
Spanish, I'm not at all surprised that the girls at RP are refusing to do BBBJ's. Most of the pro's won't do it anymore and only a small percentage of the semi pro's. Either it goes hand in hand with the $300/hr prices or too many of the girls were getting HSV or HPV.I should have directed that post to 109.
Yes the videophone is too bulky and costly.
They will go for the fashion phone.
Street Sleuth
02-22-07, 17:00
There was a mention in a report about 'manners' (or the Russian lack thereof).
I held off on replying with my 2 cents, as I viewed it as an off-topic subject...but the more I thought about it, it is a pertinent issue, at least for those who spend any amount of time in-country (one week tourists need pay no attention).
I am highly intolerant of anyone with bad manners. Now, I have to clarify, 'manners' are relative. Most Americans complain that Russians have bad manners - but you will hear just as often Russians complaining of Americans having bad manners. What is acceptable behavior in one country, is rude in another. That said, I am basing this on my American engrained sense of manners, wherein the British have the best manners, Americans are certainly somewhere in the top 5, and Russians are way down at the bottom.
The way I figure it, regardelss of what is acceptable to any given society, a good-hearted girl will have good manners. This is where the subject is most pertinent - one way I weed out girls is to go out with them (first date) to a cafe - it can't be an uppety place - just a mid/lower range place. I allow the girl to take charge of ordering (I pretend to speak Russian too poorly to order), and watch her behavior with the waiter/waitress. If she speaks to the staff in, "girl/boy, gimmi this, gimmi that, gimmi gimmi gimmi", she is out. Of note - most girls in Ukraine fail this test.
Like I said, manners are relative - I get chewed out on a regular basis for putting my feet up (this drives Russians crazy). They really see it as bad manners. I see it as a health issue (better blood flow). Maybe if the girls would squak less, and put their own feet up more, they wouldn't end up fat and ugly by 32.
On the gift-giving issue - not only do I not give gifts of any value in the early stages (certainly no cell-phones or furs), I often ask girls to buy me a gift (as another means of weeding through girls).
70% get real bitchy, and reply I'm the man, and should spend money on them.
20% take it as the joke that it really is, and laugh it off.
10% actually buy me a gift!
I have yet to recieve a cell phone though....
Robert1110
02-22-07, 18:27
Street,
I watch my date very carefully when they order. I use the exact same test. Nice to the waitress, nice to people in general.
Talk down or rudely to the waitress. I might stick around for the sex but there is no future.
I might start another thread on this topic. Why do women think all we want is sex?
Have they ever stopped to think it might be because they have nothing else to offer? Friendship, companionship? Who wants to hang out with a *****? Do you see men hanging out with women in a situation where we are not trying to fuck them?
More and more, when a woman tells me "all men (or you) want is sex" I usually stop them and ask them to examine what they are saying. I tell them, "you are already telling me that men leave you once they get the sex they want from U. Have to ever stopped to think it is because you have nothing else to offer? "
You should see some of the puzzled looks I get as they re-translate what I just said to be sure it is what they just heard.
Gentlemen foreigners, I'm Ukrainian citizen I have lgood experience connecting with foreigner and doing some services.
Leting you know that Kiev is changing every day and it's getting more and more expensive. So let us say about renting an apartment at the centre I mean near to Kreshiatik main street, 1 room 3 stars starting from 60$ 2 rooms starting from 80$ ect.
Having a good time with escort services it's start 100$ one hour.anyway, if I could help somehow, let me know.
Hello all,
With regards to manners in Ukraine, if it feels wrong it is wrong.
On a date, a girl should respect your company and your wallet. I walked away from a date because she told me that a 15 hrivna taxi fare for 30 hrivna was normal. If she arrives to your meeting with a bad attitude then tell her to go fuck herself and anyone who looks like her. Trust me, you're not missing anything.
My friends and I have a possible NO GO criteria for girls - ......... speaks english very well.......
Very true. As soon as I hear excellent English I say never mind and move on to the next girl. This and girls have traveled abroad are no go for me, too.
To Street Sleuth and Robert: Very nice insights, thanks.
Robert1110
02-23-07, 09:35
Hello all,
With regards to manners in Ukraine, if it feels wrong it is wrong.
On a date, a girl should respect your company and your wallet. I walked away from a date because she told me that a 15 hrivna taxi fare for 30 hrivna was normal. If she arrives to your meeting with a bad attitude then tell her to go fuck herself and anyone who likes like her. Trust me, you're not missing anything.Two evenings ago, I went to meet a girl I met online. I usually will agree (compromise) on a first meeting and go to the center. Usually I do this if my first attempt to get them to come out where I live fails.
This time I agreed to go to the metro stop near her home because she had a cold and was not feeling good.
I do not know what it is, but it seems whenever I agree to a ladies request on where to meet, something goes wrong. When they come to me or near my flat, things just seem to go much smoother.
Anyway, I get to her metro stop and of course she is nowhere to be found. I sms/call her and she says "5 minutes". I wait for her at the steps leading to the metro and right next to a pizza joint.
She arrives, not as pretty as her photos but she is OK. I motion to the pizza joint and say we can go in there (it is cold).
She says no, it is not a good place. (alarms start going off in my head). We walk and on the next building is another restuarant. No, she says and we keep walking. Well, it becomes apparent we are walking to a shushi bar. I start to protest, I say I want just a cup of coffee and I am not spending $50 just to see if I like U. She replies she will buy her own food (you know how this is going to go down, I already look cheap, "greedy" in their lingo). I start to say something to her about what other girls have done.
We go into the restuarant, we find a table, get our coats off, she goes to the ladies room and when she sits down, I try to start to explain why I do not want to go to a sushi bar on a first meeting.
All the while, this lady is interrupting me, and telling me she does not want to talk about other girls. This is after not listening to me when I tried to direct her into the pizza joint or the other restuarant.
After she interrupts me again, telling me what I cannot talk about, I look at her and simply say "I think I should just go home".
I stood up, put my jacket and gloves on and walked out, leaving her sitting there. I did not look back.
I agree to meet a lady near her home (mistake number one). I let her steer me away from the most obvious and easy place to sit and get coffee, twice. (mistake number two). We go to the place of her choosing (mistake number three). She interrupts and tells me not to talk about (my reasons why I am balking at going to the sushi bar). This is the final straw and this is when I stood up and walked out.
I do not care if a lady says she will buy her own food, this is my meeting, my time and my money. It would have been very awkward to let her pay for her portion of food above and beyond her coffee.
Basically, I could see she was a ***** and and split.
I agree 100% with irish lad. You see something major going down that you do not like and if the lady is not responding to your suggestions of where to go and tries to control the meeting, get up and go.
I have had a lady, 15 minutes after meeting at TGIF (and having only juice, fresh, of course) take me into a shop on k street, find the first sweater she sees, announce she is cold and I should buy this sweater for her.
Of course I said no and she walked off in a huff and said there was no reason to meet again. Of course I could not agree more.
Next time this happens, I am going to say "what would you say if I told you we need to go to my flat and I fuck your brains out? ". Your answer is the same answer I will give you now.
These women are bold. It is amazing the balls this lady had to take me into a shop and try and get me to buy her something 15 minutes after meeting.
No wonder men want only sex.
Street Sleuth
02-23-07, 15:12
Robert,
The issue of "all men want is sex" and, more to the point, "women often have little more to offer than sex" invites some very big philosophical issues - its a problem that extends way beyond EE.
But, in an attempt to narrow it down to our experiences in EE, I will say, the benefit to EE is that a guy who can get a 6 girlfriend in the West, can get an 8 girlfriend in EE, and a 50 year old guy can score with a 25 year old girl.
However, there are downsides - in strict terms of personality, I really have to say that Western girls generally rule in this domain. The problem is, for most men (me definitely included), the physical aspect trumps the emotional - ie, I need a girl to be hot first, then I'll consider her personality.
Hot girls with good personalities exist in decent quantity in the West, but competition for them is out of control. Fuggly girls with good personalities are ubiquitious in the West - koodos to guys who can deal with dating a heffer (I unfortunately can't).
EE differs, in that there are more (available) hot girls (due to lack of competition) than the West, but hot girls with good personalities are really rare.
I think a lot of it has to do with the overall current mentality of the younger generations in EE - capitalism is relatively new. It is almost a status symbol to be able to act like an a*hole - if you are rich, and beautiful, you have the right to treat waiters like dirt.
Solution?: It takes time, so, again, isn't for the one-week in/out guys, but you have to search among the poorer girls - they generally are sweeter, deeper pyschologically, and have better manners than the richer ones. And they are often just as educated (one can have a Master's degree in EE and still be dirt poor).
All this is contrary to the West, where poor girls are usually uneducated and obnoxious. It takes some rethinking on our parts to retarget where to find women (ie - not in night clubs, for example).
Street Sleuth
02-23-07, 15:24
To pre-emptivley respond to all those who will squeal at my saying Western girls have better personalities, in general...
Yes, I too am annoyed by all the political correctness in the West, the whole "women are just as good/strong/smart" as men, and "no means no", etc etc. But most of this is at the superficial, media level - on a personal level, Western girls aren't as affected by all this as we might imagine. Many are, no doubt, but many aren't. Our real gripe, and impetoous towards EE, has less to do with Western women, than with all the competition for them.
Beyond that, I never said Western girls' personalities were perfect - far from it. But rarely would they talk down to a waiter, or show up an hour late to a date, and not even apologize (who here has never experienced that in EE? Anyone? If you say otherwise, you haven't been in-country long enough, or you are lieing).
I could go on and on, but am trying to limit myself to issues somewhat pertinent to this board.
LifeSavour
02-23-07, 15:51
To pre-emptivley respond to all those who will squeal at my saying Western girls have better personalities, in general...
Our real gripe, and impetoous towards EE, has less to do with Western women, than with all the competition for them.
Beyond that, I never said Western girls' personalities were perfect - far from it. But rarely would they talk down to a waiter, or show up an hour late to a date, and not even apologize (who here has never experienced that in EE? Anyone? If you say otherwise, you haven't been in-country long enough, or you are lieing).
I said before: dysfunctional, dysfunctional, dysfunctional. But I love it!
Because a girl that grows up in a dysfunctional family (especially no real father figure), well they tend to gravitate to an older man! Ta da!
Even in usa when I was a teacher, in a week of meeting new students at semester I could almost 100% of the time tell you which girl was from a 'broken' family!
Ls guy
Euroknight
02-23-07, 23:39
Hi all,
I am quite new to this forum, but, looking forward to go to Kiev for work in the next months, I was trying to get some good information. But it seems that I am falling in the middle of a rather anthropo-philosohical debate....Can I make few trivial, bur rather concrete questions?
Browsing at the many reports, my provisional bottom line is that mongering in Kiev is unsecure, time- and money consuming. Now: does the external look matters too? I am in my 40s, not very tall and with little hairs left. Should I give up?
Robert1110
02-23-07, 23:51
Street, you are absolutely correct.
Before I saw this thread, as I was walking to the metro to meet yet another lady, I was thinking how there are a LOT of beautiful ladies who are not spoiled rotten in this country. They are just difficult to find and becoming even more so.
Yesterday a very good looking girl passed me going the other way. I still am kicking myself for not talking to her. She was a beauty, in normal jeans, normal clothes. I am sure if she dressed the part, she would be a 9 or a 10 on k street.
This girl actually looked down to earth.
I also know they exist (great girls) because I have one. Even her friends tell her she is different than everyone else. She does not have a spoiled bone in her body. Totally selfless, nothing but a big heart.
If only I loved to fuck her!
" I am sorry "? Never heard that phrase here before, in four years, except from my girl.
While I am on that topic, these women are never wrong. They love to interrupt and they rarely listen. I had one girl tell me, I paid more for my flat because I am an american. It did not matter how many times I told her I had a ukrainian friend find my flat and no one knew an american was going to rent until we met the flat owner.
These people, in many ways, have a lot more going for them than the average american, but in as many or more ways, they are way behind in things like common sense, "american" ingenuity and, well, basic common courtesy towards others.
Rule of law? Does not exist.
Hey life, we all knwo girls from fucked up familes are the easiest and best lays. Too bad they are usually psycho too!
Street Sleuth
02-24-07, 10:16
Robert,
I had a girl go on about how I was being over-charged for my apartment, solely because I'm an American - her comments made in a bitchy, arrogant tone of voice - all the while, she had not even seen my flat, didn't know where it was located, and had no notion of size/quality.
Now, I will gripe all day long that real-estate is over-priced in all the major/semi-major EE cities, but that said, everyone who actually visited my apartment (locals and foreigners alike), all commented that I had a steel - I was paying below market, given the size/location/quality of the apartment.
I have a real-estate background, so I can quickly understand and assess a market.
Point being - the girl was really annoying. Her behavior is fairly typical.
It does amaze me that the local girls absolutely fail to learn/listen from foreigners. Not to be outrageously arrogant and egotistical, but most of us have life-experiences that the young local girls could learn from - but few show any interest at all. They are more interested in trying to prove that they are 'one of us'. Their proof - they have a slider cell-phone, can speak highly flawed English, and have eaten what they believe to be Mexican food.
Like I said, I could go on and on. With my feet up on every thing from chairs to tables, I am as annoying to them as they are to me, so I shouldn't ***** :).
That said, there are rare special girls - I've had a few (yes, I'm a bastard for having left them), and still have one who I keep close....she is sweet, patient, good-mannered, and a great lay (what more could a guy ask for?).
Having just got back from 7 weeks in Kiev my interest in this forum is at a typical yearly high. Hopefully for all of us, myself included, my interest will diminish along with my separation from Kiev, it usually does.
First the easy stuff.
Euro K, sorry about the American women and seemly now Ukrainian women suck debate but such is the nature of the beast. P4P in Kiev is everywhere, literally. River Palace is 99%, Arena - 112 - Decadence all hover around 50% depending on the night. These are the big name destinations and all you are going to get from me. But you asked for Kiev for Dummies and I gave it to you. Everything else you find will be a fun learning experience for you. Be sure to post all the relevant information on the board as you go. I am sure you want to help all the newbies that come after you. Looks and lack of charm are easily compensated in Kiev with money.
Robert, you are starting to creep me out with this preying on dysfunction girls stuff - has the Connection found a new home? As far as the western spoiled girls or bad mannered girls or whatever you want to call them goes in Kiev believe it or not it is actually a minority of these girls that make up the hot girl population. 80% of the hot girls living in Kiev generally do not interact with foreigners. Seriously, if you find yourself attracting bad (not in a good way bad) girls like this all the time then you have to take a look at yourself and ask why this is. Common courtesy is hard in a society that when you used to stand politely in a bread line you did not eat. It's changing but it is going to take at least a generation.
Street, you may have been paying below market for your apartment but you were still being overcharged. ;) I have encountered the ‘know it all’ Kiev girl too, but the type is far from typical. Play it out and see where it goes, see if her attitude changes by the end of the date.
Robert and Street, we've all encountered these problems dealing with the Ukrainian and Ukrainian girls. It's just a minor bump in the road, get over it and drive on. If you can't, it's not the girls. I find most sexpats, myself included, happiness/unhappiness is directly related to what their current experience are with the girls. Having a great time? Who cares about the Soviet shit hole they are in. Having a bad time? Wow, this place really sucks.
Geez, defending Ukraine and Ukrainian girls used to be Uke Boy’s job. How did I get stuck with it?
Street Sleuth
02-24-07, 16:13
Cruiser,
I accept the argument about Soviet difficulties resulting in tough attitudes, when it comes to Babyshkas (who are by and far the toughest people in all the FSU...don't mess with them!), but the girls we are talking about (under 30), really never experienced the whole 'bread line' thing.
I think, now, the various problems in FSU are related to the new economic model, where the rich got rich not by working hard, but by some sort of connection/graft. Working hard still generally gets you nowhere.
No need to defend FSU women - there are plenty of pluses, which I will expound upon at times (and plenty of minuses, which I will also be sure to point out) - just want to keep things balanced - more often, I hear, "the FSU is a mecca for women, they are all hot, and all subservient to men" - just trying to keep it real :).
Street Sleuth
02-24-07, 16:18
As for the overpriced real-estate market in the FSU, I could explain all the dynamics that have created it, but it would really start to be way off topic, so I'll hold off...
I'll just mention to all those that shoot in and out of the countries for short trips - don't get too upset about it, the locals get hit by high rents too, whenever they move out of their original home towns (where they have essentially free places from Soviet times).
It helps, a little, to speak the language and be in-country for awhile, to find a better deal, but basically, real-estate is over-priced across the board, for everyone.
On the gift-giving issue - not only do I not give gifts of any value in the early stages (certainly no cell-phones or furs), I often ask girls to buy me a gift (as another means of weeding through girls).
70% get real bitchy, and reply I'm the man, and should spend money on them.
20% take it as the joke that it really is, and laugh it off.
10% actually buy me a gift!
I have yet to recieve a cell phone though....You funny bastard. I'm actually going to try that next time myself.
Robert1110
02-25-07, 22:46
Cruiser,
I liked you until this most recent post.
Who said I "prey on dysfunctional women"?
All I did was make a comment to lifesavior about a comment he made. In no way does what I said have anything to do with me "preying on dysfunctional women".
Also, who said I "find yourself attracting bad (not in a good way bad) girls like this all the time then you have to take a look at yourself and ask why this is".
You do not know me, you do not know the women I date and what I post is a fraction of my experience here.
I do not have to look at myself. I know myself very well. I do not need to use money to make up for bad looks or no personality. I have both and I will wager I have more in both categories than U.
Who the hell do you think you are? Your comments are totally out of line.
I am reminded why I do not post very often, people like you take a kernal of information and turn it into something it is not.
LifeSavour
02-26-07, 10:47
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the content of the report was largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!
I think that cruiser is actually ukrainian or american-ukrainian. Connection is ukrainain for sure. He uses the same style ukrainain boys use to annoy you when you hit their girlfriend.
Maybe these people entered the forum because they found the comments on ukrainian girls, Ukraine etc rather humiliating and want to give a lesson to american arrogance. They showed already one monger, this guy in Globus. I had seen him one time in club 44 and was wondering what a beauty sitting next to him had to do with him. After I watched them for some time, I realised the guy was completely harmless, the girl left and he stayed.
Maybe the connection, cruiser etc will try to find out the identity of some people writing on this forum and make fun of them or show their photos actually as well to protect their country from them, make them leave or something like that. All the reports by connection are 100% written by ukrainian. I met this style many times, somebody who tries to appear completely unpleasant to make you get away.
Street Sleuth
02-26-07, 17:28
Robert,
Try not to get too offended - Cruiser has a nasty habit of doing exactly what you said - jumping to gross conclusions based on tidbits of information offered. It is annoying.
As for his comments on 'preying on dysfunctional women', my recollect that the concept of 'dysfunctional women', as described, correlates to the vast majority of FSU girls - especially the ones you'll find in Kiev, Odessa, and Moscow. So, anyone living in the region, and dating local girls, is in effect 'preying on dysfunctional women', whether they are consciensciously aware of it or not.
Doctor_Skank
02-26-07, 18:38
Robert,
Try not to get too offended - Cruiser has a nasty habit of doing exactly what you said - jumping to gross conclusions based on tidbits of information offered. It is annoying.
As for his comments on 'preying on dysfunctional women', my recollect that the concept of 'dysfunctional women', as described, correlates to the vast majority of FSU girls - especially the ones you'll find in Kiev, Odessa, and Moscow. So, anyone living in the region, and dating local girls, is in effect 'preying on dysfunctional women', whether they are consciensciously aware of it or not.And what might you exactly mean by dysfunctional?
I think they function just fine.
Lick their tits. Pussy get wet.
Stick dick in pussy. Girl make noises.
Move dick in pussy rythmically. Girl screeches and waves head around wildly.
Nothing dysfunctional about that. :)
Doctor_Skank
02-26-07, 18:41
I do not need to use money to make up for bad looks or no personality. I have both and I will wager I have more in both categories than U.I think you said it all already yourself. :)
P.S. you might want to proofread what you write next time before actually posting it.
My bad, I just strike out at others because it compensates for my lack of luck with the ladies in Kiev. The closest I got to females in Kiev was when Dr S took pity on me and took me to River Palace - I generally can't afford to go to places like that. Not that it really matter because even if I had the money it couldn't make up for my bad looks or lack of personality.
I'm just a sad lonely man living at the end of the metro in Kiev. Just ignore me. My whole world is just coke and ho's.
Robert1110
02-27-07, 09:28
I think you said it all already yourself. :)
P.S. you might want to proofread what you write next time before actually posting it.Yea, I read that through a few times but I figured you guys have enough brains to understand what I was saying. Hope I'm not wrong. ;.)
LifeSavour
02-27-07, 09:38
Yes I was being Argumentative! Guess it comes from so many years of World Class Competition in athletics!
So I am humbled. Lets try to stop 'attacks' on people WE don't even know and remember 'to take this INFO in reports with a grain of salt' !
Dr S - hope you look at the link.
Cruiser has already repented!
Bez (No Problem Guy) is lost!!
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=567291&postcount=3462
LS Guy
Doctor_Skank
02-27-07, 09:49
Yea, I read that through a few times but I figured you guys have enough brains to understand what I was saying. Hope I'm not wrong. ;.)Oh I did understand what you wrote.
After all, you did write that you know yourself very well and that you have bad looks and no personality, and plenty of both. A winning combination.
I do admire your honesty though. :)
Seriously though, from the looks of these bickering posts lately, I think we all just need to get laid.
And what might you exactly mean by dysfunctional?
I think they function just fine.
Lick their tits. Pussy get wet.
Stick dick in pussy. Girl make noises.
Move dick in pussy rythmically. Girl screeches and waves head around wildly.
Nothing dysfunctional about that. :)But honestly though, there are a lot of mentally dysfunctional women in the FSU. I mean as in their personalities. Especially the young ones these days. The 25+ girls are ok to a certain extend. Mainly because their prime is winding down and are desperate to find a good man to start a family. They become a lot more submissive and 'know where their place is' as its still ingrained in their head of a woman's responsibility within the family (in the days of a by-gone era - this would be around the 60's in the Western world).
I'm just speaking from personal experience. The under 25's can get quite mental, especially if they take an obsessive liking towards you. Even more so if they are obsessed with a foreigner.
In terms of their sexuality, as we all know, their motors and enthusiasm are functioning very well !! All of us on this forum are really only in the FSU for this sole reason, no?
Your last post was a joke, right?
Street, since we don't agree to often and I don't want to add another one or two line post I edited this one to agree with what you say in the above message. Still in the process of dating 20+ year old girls in the US I agree with you, young girls are young girls doesn't matter where they are. Just so that you all don't get the wrong impression about poor ol' Cruiser I am just as likely to date a 40 year old girl as I am a 20 in the US.
Street Sleuth
02-28-07, 00:05
Lack of manners aside (an issue with all age categories of FSU men and women), the issue of under 25 year old girls being 'mental' in the FSU is perhaps somewhat overstating the issue.
You have to consider that we (Western guys, mostly 30+ years old) don't generally date 20 year old girls in the West. I'm fairly certain that youngish Western girls (18 - 22 years old) are every bit as capricious as their Eastern European counterparts - we just don't have the luck of experiencing their whimsical ways, as they generally don't date guys 10+ years older than them.
Poor behavior, on a superficial level (showing up late, not apologizing, unjustified arrogance) is a real problem with many FSU women, but I don't know as though I'd go so far as to classify them as dysfunctional, in the textbook sense.
Basically, wacky behavior by young girls is a world-wide phenomenom :)
LifeSavour
02-28-07, 00:15
Your last post was a joke, right?Which post?
SexyBlackjj
02-28-07, 09:32
Hi guys.
New to this forum. Did some reading and appreciate any help. I met a girl on the internet who lives outside Kiev about 250 KM. I told her I'm moving to Kiev soon and that got her interest. Anybody have any other suggestions how I can bag this one when I get there for my vacation?
LifeSavour
02-28-07, 13:09
Just today I was on flirt.com, see I am out of a regular relationship (maybe irregular? She was 23 when WE started & 25 when I moved out) it has been 4 months and I am searching for a special one to take to USA for my son's upcoming wedding! You know, I gotta show the family why I'm over here living!
So I message a 34 yr old blonde that speaks no english. I am doing a 'shotgun' approach:
'Hi,, lets meet & see? '
I will teach you english!
I need a special lady to escort me to my son's wedding in June!
Within 10 minutes she accuses me of false relations, wanting only a paper doll, not real, and oh yeah "you are hard"!
What the F! Insulting someone you don't even know! But it is so fun to GIVE it right back, and in another 10 minutes she is apologizing! So I accept, and TELL her she will come to my apartment and WE will use computer to translate and I will kiss her, undress her and she will have her way with me!
So, it looks GOOD. Oh no! Wait. She is now telling ME. She has only LUNCH time, and WE will meet in CENTER at some $$$ place! OK?
So I reply. "you are inviting me to lunch? " "wow. So nice" "in UKR this means YOU will PAY? "
They can be rude, have no manners, but IF ya don't take it. You can find a real 'good one' to have some nice times with!
LS Guy
PS. Guy's, this at home / computer TRICK is awesome. You sit close, share the keyboard, drink some wine (or? ). Its a whole new way to INTERNET DATE! They become relaxed, see you are a good guy and then its up to you to have what you want! 99. 99% it works!
LifeSavour
02-28-07, 23:49
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the subject was not related to the purpose of this Forum, which is as follows:
The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange if information between men on the subject of finding women for sex.
LifeSavour
03-02-07, 13:25
Chatted with HER. 35.
Within 10 minutes "you have apartment? " hmmmmm?
Maybe it is a trick question? So WE agree to meet in Kafe near Livo. Metro.
I am ON-TIME. She is OF COURSE 30 minutes late! Ha
But its OK, as behind me are 2 gals. Tomato sak & Vodka! I keep turning to them and offering my mug and say 'BudMa'! Of course they smile & laugh!
Now I am hoping HER does not show. 'kakashka' she is here. Coffee. "Is your apartment close? " da. Lets GO? Huh?
$60 USD. F_ _ k ALL women in UKR are prostitutes! No sorry.
She leaves. I move to new table with FREE Svetlana & Nina.
Oh well. The rest is history.
Welcome to Ukraine!
How will I live in USA at the end of March?
LS Guy
Playing "tricks" on the girl is not really my style. I would also say that the ladies see through that most of the time. They also play along to see what, if anything, they can get out of it. Sometimes they do and other times they outsmart themselves.
As for me, what I do is try and be myself whenever I go out and try to bring home a lovely. I almost always use one favorite seduction method that works for me and may work for others. If you are in a hotel, it won't work but if you are in an apartment, it might.
At some point, I try and get the conversation to food and cooking.
Women in this region are indoctrinated in the sense that ultimately they must aspire to being a "Mother" and a "Housewife".
I play on the "Housewife" theme in that I say I am an excellent cook. I am not a haute cuisine chef but I can more than hold my own in normal circumstances. I also have a fully equipped kitchen in Kiev that any local lady would (and does) envy. Depending on the time of day, I then invite them to have dinner that I will prepare for them that evening or the next evening.
To most, it is unusual for a male to cook and very rarely ever am I turned down. Curiosity does get to the ladies in this case.
If they come over that evening, I make sure we work together on the preparations and the cooking, if the next day, I make sure I do not do too much of the preparation before they arrive. That way, with preparation, with some very good wine and lots of talking, there is a way to connect, to break down her barriers and to have a quiet and intimate meal at home.
Afterwards, dishes are thrown into the sink to await washing the next day.
However, the post dinner dessert for me is the lady for at least a few hours afterwards and sometimes for days! And in each and every case, there is no talk of money exchanging hands for any reason whatsoever.
It really does work, at least for me. The only real problem is that too damned many of them want to come back too often.
Warsaw Jan
03-04-07, 05:38
Hi guys.
New to this forum. Did some reading and appreciate any help. I met a girl on the internet who lives outside Kiev about 250 KM. I told her I'm moving to Kiev soon and that got her interest. Anybody have any other suggestions how I can bag this one when I get there for my vacation?You made the right start by telling her you are moving to live in Kiev soon. The local girls have been f**ked by too many tourists since the berlin wall came down -- they are wise to our bullshit, and now they are more carefully looking for maybe not marriage but at least boyfriend material. So you have to keep hinting that you will be in country for a year or two on business. She will ask what business, but basically they will assume any westerner will be rich.
Next step is some symbolic romance. Eastern European girls really appreciate flowers, or CD, or other small gift, even at an early date (ie, not as a reward for spreading her legs, but just for her...) Also, they get all moist when a man turns up for the date smartly dressed and with shinny shoes. Because what they really want to avoid are the kind of lazy couch potatoe loosers they are stuck with in the national "market".
Finally, eastern girls dont have too many complexes about 'recreational' sex - but the form must be respected. So wait until the second date for a kiss, and the third date before 'pouncing'. Luckily, they will usually accept to meet you every day - or even for lunch and again for dinner in the evening. After all, these girls believe that they are doing the hunting, not us!
Robert1110
03-05-07, 13:21
yes, women everywhere look at the shoes.
Another thing they look at are your hands and nails. Whenever I get a haircut, I also get a manicure.
They love nice hands. Think about it. Would you want a narly fingernail up your snatch if you had one?
I gave this advice on a another forum and every amn that had a manicure all said the women noticed. Trust me. They notice things we never think of.
Love the cooking at home. Wish I could cook but that shouldn't stop me from trying. Her maternal instincts will come into play when she sees what a pig I can be.
I get a lot of free pussy lately. Some even leave the taxi money I put on their purse before they leave.
These women like men with a capital M. They all say they want a MAN. They are talking about alpha males. They test us all the time. One poster said something about not wanting to use tricks and to "just be himself". Might work with some, but being yourself, well. You better be a confident, self assured man who knows what he is doing every moment, which is not easy to do when you are totally out of your "element" and atmosphere.
I have learned to "bust" on them when they get out of line. If they complain about little things. I get "cocky and funny" not letting them get away with their BS and it works. They want a man who will not agree to everything they do simply because they are "beautiful". In fact, buying them gifts and spending money on them before sex, they think we are fools. (except the p4p of course). Small, inexpensiv things, fine. But anything substancial before sex and you have already lost.
All these women, even the short, chunky ladies, think they are "beautiful". The egos are very big here and so is superficiality.
Also. You think men are liars? We cannot hold a candle to women in this department.
Think about this. A conservative 10-20% of the children being raised in the USA are NOT the children of the man who thinks he is the father.
Think about this. A woman gives birth to a child and let's her husband/provider think he is the father of a child by a lover/alpha male. Not only at this moment, when he is in total joy of having a child (assuming he wants one). But the woman keeps this secret THEIR ENTIRE LIVES.
If so many woman are capable of such a huge and life long secret as who is the real father of her child (ren), the rest, the other lies, are SMALL STUFF.
And, we men are so naive, we do not even come close to the level of suspicion we should have about ALL women.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
MichaelGage
03-05-07, 17:43
Hi guys,
I'm coming to Kiev March 6 and have some good things arranged with some model types. Anyone want to share on some of the prices involved let me know.
[Email address deleted by Admin]
EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to remove email addresses in the text. Please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. Thanks!
Bez Bezarra
03-06-07, 13:40
10-20% of the children being raised in the US are having their true father being kept secret by the mother?
Editor?
The editor is the Admin UB.
I don't know where the 10-20% figure comes from, but I guess I'm happy my kids look exactly like me, lol.
Robert1110
03-07-07, 11:46
Don't you guys read anything other than porn or this sex site?
This (the absolute fact that at least 10% of the children being raised in the USA by a father who thinks the child is is, but it is not) is finally becoming common knowledge in the circles of people who actually read about things other than sex.
I mean, it was even on the cover of "people" magazine at least a year ago! On the cover they had a photo of a very good looking wife, husband and "their" four children. Three, yes THREE of which were not his. Three of the children he was raising as his own (and he thought were his) were not his children. He found out when some blood testing was done for a hereditary disease.
This is becoming VERY common and, it appears it has been going on since the dawn of time (read "sperm wars" and get a wake up call).
And, even if my children were th "spitting image" of me, if I had the slightest dowubt, and maybe less, I would get blood tests, pal.
Women, in general, are FAR better liars than we could ever dream to be.
And part of the reason they are able to get away with is apparent in the replies to my post. That none of you seem to know about this.
Trust a woman? HA!
MichaelGage
03-07-07, 11:54
You know, for some years now, thanks to getting the language under my belt I've pretty much left the pro scene, and have been enjoying the university girls, particulary the first year girls who come to Kiev from the smaller cities and villages. But now I hit something even more interesting.- and tonight should be fun.- one of the girls I've been "enjoying" asked if I could help her organize four of her friends who were willing to "work" I'm meeting 5 girls this evening for a test session, so I guess it's time to break down and try cialis. Life gets more and more interesting.
So my suggestion, gents. Get the language.
Next time I'm waiting for my hair appointment, I'll be sure to study those People magazines more closely.
Michael -- Perhaps you not only master the language but also the tongue (as in mother's tongue).
In Ukraine, like in Russia, you can buy everywhere Cialis, Viagra or Levitra in different dosages or different confections (1, 2, 4 etc) the price for a 20 mg 4 tablet Cialis box at the Tsum supermarket Apoteka was approx 400 grivnas, but it usually changes with the fluctuation of $$$.
The original price is in USD.
IT
On ground I'll be there (i mean in Kiev) for some days, already been some times but... we might help us... I have some questions.
a) Somebody has been to Rakuena erotic massage?
b) Somebody has taken Mystery Tramp recently (or seen her at RP)?
c) Somebody knows a teen 6/7 is enough with good anal skills?
Thanks
IT
yes, women everywhere look at the shoes.
(...)
Another thing they look at are your hands and nails. Whenever I get a haircut, I also get a manicure.
And, we men are so naive, we do not even come close to the level of suspicion we should have about ALL women.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
I agree totally specially for EE like Ukranians and Russians.
Only showing pictures (well drsssed) I managed to get three dates for my next trip... one 21, one 20 and one 18!
For all I have asked all the mesaures for giving them a present, will be a set of black Italian lingerie (I hope that at least one will show me how she wears it!). Th problem is always the time, only few days to get them to bed, so I'll will meet them asap when I get in Kiev.
This three are completely different types:
one has DD tits! well bodied!
one is a real riding horse neraly 180
the third i an 18 petite, something 155 the type I prefer for rectal inspection.
But I'll all report you.
On gound all is unsure I asked for some infos in my previous mail!
IT
Bez Bezarra
03-08-07, 13:01
I have idea how this red undy pos I had thing with Robert
See your doctor?
StevieSteve
03-08-07, 20:18
a) Somebody has been to Rakuena erotic massage?Yes I had a erotic body massage with Ira in December (pictured on the site but way tastier in the flesh) and very nice it was too
Unfortunately some other beggar had nicked the other girls available so couldn't try out the 2 or 3 girl options
Shovkovychna Str is opposite the road that leads to the Rus and Princessa Hotels. It looks like the steepest road in the world but the apartment block is quite near the bottom end.
You then turn into a courtyard. If you wander round looking lost they come and rescue you and take you to the flat. The rooms are fairly basic but was warm and fine.
Or of course you can get them to come to you.
Yes I had a erotic body massage with Ira in December (pictured on the site but way tastier in the flesh) and very nice it was too
Unfortunately some other beggar had nicked the other girls available so couldn't try out the 2 or 3 girl options
Shovkovychna Str is opposite the road that leads to the Rus and Princessa Hotels. It looks like the steepest road in the world but the apartment block is quite near the bottom end.
You then turn into a courtyard. If you wander round looking lost they come and rescue you and take you to the flat. The rooms are fairly basic but was warm and fine.
Or of course you can get them to come to you.
Fine I know the road... and what was the price: the one they declare in the site?
IT
StevieSteve
03-10-07, 08:45
Fine I know the road... and what was the price: the one they declare in the site?
ITYep - 230 grv
Yep - 230 grvSeems Cheap, but I'll try to reserve once the famous three girl massage.
IT
A new Kiev escort agency! It seems I know manager of them, all their VIP models are said to be from the high level model agency KARIN (Vlada Litovchenko)
They are really the best one in ukraine.
http://www.royal-kiev-escort.com
Noris,
This is a duplicate of my post in the Kiev Escorts thread but I thought I would post it here anyway.
If you have read anything I have written, you will know and understand that I have always been very critical of GIA. They are overpriced for Kiev with second rate ladies. The only good point that is important to mongers is that the photos are more or less the real photos of the ladies who will actually come to visit.
That being said, who the hell are you promoting this royal agency that you posted in the Kiev thread. Are you the manager or his friend?
I took a look at that site. The photos are ALL fake so that places you right away well below the poor quality of GIA. Not only that, but 200 EUROS for an hour? That is about TWICE the GIA rate and far more than you will pay with ladies from many other web sites at US $80 per hour!
The concept of VIP ladies, my friend, does not exist in Kiev except as a rip-off term.
So can you explain just how and why you are posting a site that is much worse than GIA?
The only answer is that you are the owner of that site and that your posts today are all lies.
I never thought that I would be defending such a [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140)-poor agency such as GIA but here is a miracle with another pimp trying to promote an agency that is extremely overpriced and should be closed tomorrow.
200 Euros. What a rip-off for Kiev.
Gentlemen do not use royal-kiev-escort.
You will be ripped off.
I saw prices of 200 and 300 euros/hr on their site.
What kind of insane lunatic would pay 300 euros/hr for a girl in Kiev when that is more expensive then in cities like NYC/Paris/Rome/LA? You can get real models in any of those cities for $300/hr.
Nice picture of Maidan however. ;)
I've only been to Kiev twice, but that was enough times to know that this Royal Kiev site is a bunch a bull! What the heck are they thinking? You can get girls like that in Germany for 150 euro an hour, I mean come on. Also I recognize some of these girls from some Moscow escort sites a scanned. What a joke!
Can anyone recommend a decent doctor in Kiev? I will need to have some stitches removed when I arrive.
I'll be in Kiev from 22 March to 01 April.
American Medical Center
Address: 1 Berdychivskaya St.
Phone: +380-44-4907600
Working hours: 24 hours a day
Nearest metro station: Lukyanivska
They helped me few times in the past. They are ok. Also Medicom in Kiev is ok.
Greets
Oh, God! GIA agency really helped me to obtain the worst escort experience, I’ve ever had!
Having arrived in Kiev, on business, I decided to make an appointment with one of the escorts, frankly speaking, for me it is like some tradition, to fuck escort girls during my staying in various countries; I travel a lot, so it was not my first experience with escort girl.
Having looked through GIA web-page (I prefer making choice by looking at real photos), so in that way I chose one of the escorts, I don’t remember her name exactly, but according to pic. It was young girl, 20 y. O. , tiny, medium breast size, with shining long dark hair, dressed in luxurious lingerie.
Oh, fuck! What I’ve got! First in my life, I realized how the pic. Could be changed by someone, and in reality that girl appeared to be absolutely different, TERRIBLE TERRIBLE DIFFERENT!
She was at least 28, her face looked very tired and old, with some marks on it, besides I felt nasty alcohol smell coming from that girl, she appeared to have taken it for weeks. She was fat with dropping breasts, and she had body like she was 35-40. My wife is 42, we have 2 children, and she looks like a model to compare with the girl I got from GIA.
I was shocked, so I was sitting on my sofa without saying anything. But the girl wasn’t shocked, and it was really funny, because she couldn’t say even a word in English, except "Money. Give me money".
So I gave money, and sent her back. I couldn’t imagine myself touching that girl. I thought, I simple was not lucky in Kiev, sometimes it happens.
After few weeks, I met my friends (in my native city), we have been meeting sometimes, to chat about everything, to take a beer or so on. We’ve just started chatting about girls, and one of my friend told us similar story which recently has happened with him in Kiev (it was really surprise for me). He just had an appointment with much worse escort girl from GIA agency, than I had!
So let’s make a conclusion!
I saw prices of 200 and 300 euros/hr on their site.
What kind of insane lunatic would pay 300 euros/hr for a girl in Kiev when that is more expensive then in cities like NYC/Paris/Rome/LA? You can get real models in any of those cities for $300/hr.
Nice picture of Maidan however. ;)My poor friend,
On coming to Ukraine you can either stay at the 5 star Priemer Palace hotel (the price is 250$-1000$ per a night there) and Radisson hotel (400-900 euro per a night), or you can also rent appartment at the price 30$ per a night. If you are poor person and can't affort to have a high class escort, so please don't say a such kind of things. And maybe for you it will be a surprise, but I met some managers of escort agencies in Kiev and as far as I undestood THEY ARE HEAVY WITH ORDERS, they told me they have had a lot of clients who regulary book girls for 300 euro/hr, or even 1500euro per a night, moreover they have been their constant clients for years, and always satisfied by the services provided by their models. SHAME ON YOU! And please don't think that I try to promote high class escorts in Kiev, I just want to say that your opinion is wrong, I don't force you to book a girl for 300 euro, if for you the important is only a "dirty hole", so invite girl for 30$/hr, I don't mind about that, but if you are not able to get more, please don't express your wrong ideas at all!
I hope that nobody thinks some of these girls are true!
Tomorrow I'll send a big report on Uliana, my first free date: just a dinner some small presents, and some beautiful anal sessions, with a girl just filled 20 :)
I will get some photo too!
IT
So now we know you are Ukrainian, or at least Russian. The use of "poor friend," tells me that, plus your extreme arguments such as the "$30 girl" or the "$30 apartment" which do not accurately reflect today's Kiev and Ukraine is also typical of people from the former USSR. If I did not know better, you are either also Chunky2007 or his cousin but we know Chunky works for GIA.
You speak about meeting escort service managers and knowing them very well. You also seem to know so much about the business from the inside. Perhaps that is because you are one of them yourself? You can tell us the truth.
If you think you run a so-called "high-class" escort and complain about GIA, then why do you not show the actual ladies, and not rip off photos from other sites? Come out and show just how much better you are than GIA. Do not complain about them but show us something other than your baby crying. Be a man, or at least be a real pimp and show us your true ladies.
If there are lunatics out there paying 1500 Euros per night, your partners should feel very satisfied by the results.
If you have not figured it out yet, this is a site where we share our experiences so we DO NOT NEED TO PAY SUCH RIDICULOUS SUMS. We want to pay nothing or nearly so for the experience but are also willing to pay REASONABLE SUMS. 200 or 300 Euros is not reasonable. For the royal ladies, I would say 200 or 300 Grivna would be reasonable.
Your agency, Noris, is unreasonable and you know the reasons why.
By the way, if you do not own this agency and you are who you say you are, plus you know all these agencies and all these owners and know them well, as you have just said, then would you do us all a favor and please list these agencies you know and their services plus their contact numbers and/or web sites?
Contribute this information to us and not complain and not pimp just one agency which we know to be your agency.
GIA is the only real "agency" that shows real ladies, more or less, and they work for GIA exclusively while there. All the others fall into two categories, web sites that sell space for independents and bordellos Or the web sites and the ads in the Kiev Post are the bordellos themselves such as the ones located on Basseinaya or Leontovicha or on Gorkoho and elsewhere.
If there are other, REAL, agencies as you stated, competing with and are better than GIA, then let us know the facts Norrie and with details, please!
Bez Bezarra
03-18-07, 22:44
Oh, God!
GIA agency the worst escort experience ever!
advertise to fuck a young girl, 20 years.
fuck!
What in reality that girl appeared to be at least 28, very tired and fat.
I sat on my sofa with the girl
she could say in English "Money. Give me money".
So I gave money and I couldn’t touch that girl.
GIA agency!
Have a great time in the fun city.
American Ukraine
03-18-07, 23:32
A new Kiev escort agency! It seems I know manager of them, all their VIP models are said to be from the high level model agency KARIN (Vlada Litovchenko)
They are really the best one in ukraine.
http://www.royal-kiev-escort.comDang! 300 euro/hr! Are their pussies made of gold with carved diamonds?
Moi ukranski druug Noris Max, you think foreigners are soo stupid. Go back to the streets, because I don't think anybody here is gonna buy that.
Noris, or should I say Boris. If you are for real and not the made up identity of some Kiev pimp you are a fool. People who pay 300e/hr or 1500e/night for a girl in Kiev are a fool, 1500e will buy you a girl in Kiev for the month. But since you are the made up identity of some Kiev low life that makes you just a cyber pimp.
$300/hr will get me any first class escort in any first class city in the world - not some poor excuse for a country capital like Kiev. I don't care how many Bently's or Benz's I have to walk over because they are parked on the sidewalk. Kiev is a 2nd rate city with a lot of pretty girls, thats it get over it. Go to some other online forum and peddle your shit there, no one is buying your line of crap here.
Uke, Noris reeks of Russian or Ukrianian you can smell the Vodka from here. The old, 'oh, if you can't afford it' is only for saps, chumps and drunk Russian/Ukrainians who stole more money then they need.
My poor friend,
On coming to Ukraine you can either stay at the 5 star Priemer Palace hotel (the price is 250$-1000$ per a night there) and Radisson hotel (400-900 euro per a night), or you can also rent appartment at the price 30$ per a night. If you are poor person and can't affort to have a high class escort, so please don't say a such kind of things. And maybe for you it will be a surprise, but I met some managers of escort agencies in Kiev and as far as I undestood THEY ARE HEAVY WITH ORDERS, they told me they have had a lot of clients who regulary book girls for 300 euro/hr, or even 1500euro per a night, moreover they have been their constant clients for years, and always satisfied by the services provided by their models. SHAME ON YOU! And please don't think that I try to promote high class escorts in Kiev, I just want to say that your opinion is wrong, I don't force you to book a girl for 300 euro, if for you the important is only a "dirty hole", so invite girl for 30$/hr, I don't mind about that, but if you are not able to get more, please don't express your wrong ideas at all!Noris,
you don't need to insult or shame anybody here. Don't be so stupid and arrogant! Having money doesn't mean you have to throw it away!
Believe me, my pockets have enough cash and I'm not afraid to enjoy the best lifestyle I can. Nevertheless I will NEVER NEVER NEVER PAY 300$ per hour in Kiev. I agree with Cruiser! Why should we pay in Kiev more than I do in NYC or in Rome for a professional escort? Especially because Kiev is still full of "easy" pearls.
I always stay in Premier Palace or Radisson (that, by the way, never costed more than 300-400 EUR per night, even taking deluxe rooms), dress elegant suits and eat in the most fancy and trendy restaurants. That's enough to have cuties around like bees on the honey.
With some effort and some charme you can easily get great GFE with model-like hotties. And if you have not enough patience, you can just follow the semi-pro path in places like Arena, 112, Caribbean Club, Patipa... 300$ can assure you a couple of very hot days!
P.S. Couple of years ago a russian new rich man spent several EUR millions to buy a stake of the Collosseum in Rome (yes, like in an old Toto's movie!). We are still laughing at this "masterpiece" fraud. Maybe he was a royal-kiev client?
Anyway if Noris' friends find "a lot" of people spending 1500 EUR per night for Kiev escorts, they have the right to go ahead and catch the opportunity. We don't know how many fools could be around... For sure there are not in this forum (Noris?)
Bez Bezarra
03-19-07, 12:35
Boris.
If you are for real some Kiev pimp you are a fool.
Constantine does have a regular job as a mechaninc, but in the evenings he will root around to find me a styudenka or two. $120 to $150 is his normal price, for the minimum 2 hour session. Unfortunately, as I've been saying for a while, the talent level is not what it used to be.
Usually what happens is, if he actually does bring someone interesting, then as soon as I ask for another, now the answer is always 'nyet, nyet drugoy'.
So I try all the websites, and again, nothing but rejects. KYYIV KAPUT!
yes
mystery tramp phone is off...
just phoned a bbbj teen (she ads so!) and said where i live is too far for her (she write tsum area), not more than 8-9 min walking... i propsed her several hours and she just hang on.
[CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901) off duty (she has a boy friend) :( by far some of the best bbbj + cim up to now in my 25 years mongering career...
yulia, the only real one in gia giving for my needs a real bbbj with full cim, is off duty. :(
will stay the night with uliana: she is a a real collector (she needs daily fresh meat), just filled 20... likes anal, :) but don't make "minet"... on ground she is free of charge what shall i say? ;)
post a report with pics on her later.
it
Euroknight
03-22-07, 19:57
I am sorry, but I have to write that, after having browsed this forum, I find it 100% useless to a man like, who is new to Kiev and Ukraine, and would like to find some useful information.
Until now, I only learned that there is a highly unsecure place (River Palace), where 50% of the people could easily catch some girl and the rest could not. So, I presume that the lucky 50% are already good-looking relatively young chaps, who could easily find a girl in any club. But I am not, and I want anyhow f***.
Then I learned of an agency (GIA), also with the same controversial record of experiences, and nother agency (Royal Kiev) probably out-of-market (300 $/hour. No, thanks)
Finally, a long, tiring series of quarrels between AU and the rest-of-the-forum, with a lot of comments (for me) absolutely uninteresting about life in Lugansk, etc. , etc. , etc.
What a beginner like me would like to know is:
A) is there some website ALSO in english, which is relatively reliable, with profiles of girls working in Kiev?
Be) are there some clubs/discos where a 45-yo man, not totally bad-looking, but certainly not young and smart, can go, with the hope of finding 1-2 girls within 2 hours?
See) if one is properly dressed, even when one strolls somewhere, the chances of mongering increase? Or one simply becomes an easy target for pickpocketers (or worse)?
D) are there some areas in Kiev which a foreigner should avoid? And some other areas good for mongering?
If somebody would be interested in giving few answers to these PRACTICAL, concrete questions, I would be grateful.
I am sorry, but I have to write that, after having browsed this forum, I find it 100% useless to a man like, who is new to Kiev and Ukraine, and would like to find some useful information.
Until now, I only learned that there is a highly unsecure place (River Palace), where 50% of the people could easily catch some girl and the rest could not. So, I presume that the lucky 50% are already good-looking relatively young chaps, who could easily find a girl in any club. But I am not, and I want anyhow f***.
Then I learned of an agency (GIA), also with the same controversial record of experiences, and nother agency (Royal Kiev) probably out-of-market (300 $/hour. No, thanks)
Finally, a long, tiring series of quarrels between AU and the rest-of-the-forum, with a lot of comments (for me) absolutely uninteresting about life in Lugansk, etc. , etc. , etc.
What a beginner like me would like to know is:
A) is there some website ALSO in english, which is relatively reliable, with profiles of girls working in Kiev?
Be) are there some clubs/discos where a 45-yo man, not totally bad-looking, but certainly not young and smart, can go, with the hope of finding 1-2 girls within 2 hours?
See) if one is properly dressed, even when one strolls somewhere, the chances of mongering increase? Or one simply becomes an easy target for pickpocketers (or worse)?
D) are there some areas in Kiev which a foreigner should avoid? And some other areas good for mongering?
If somebody would be interested in giving few answers to these PRACTICAL, concrete questions, I would be grateful.
Answers...
A) Ths site in Englis are usually a rip off. I think the only one useful
http://www.rakuena.com/
It' only an erotic massage salon, cumming but not fuc**** Use sites likke www.flirt.com.ua or like (but they are all in Rssian, but you can use translators...
http://www.uakisski.com/indexwm.htm
The photo are alsmost real (not all of course, some girls speak english).
B) Sure at RP you can get laid 100%, just to pay! other places are Arena and Prad-A-Cafè (in the market building).
C) I'm not worried by pickpockets... In other western cities it's much worse.
D) Generally speaking NO. The area for the mongering is, of course, the centrum.
Gia experience. It can be good or bad. Good Girls are Yulia,Irina and Oksana (if you like a 180 cm tennis player!) some others are worse. But no one was really negative!
It's all
IT
PS the best selection of teens to sponsor can be found on flirt, usually the pics are real. But you have to inscribe yourself and know how to use it. If you are familiar with chat it's not difficult even in Russian, keep two windows open, one original and one translated and just fill in basically, no photo no charachteristics, so the you will se the girls ads.
Here some flirt links, you cant see the bicture or send messages, but is just for showing. The database is the same of a lot of sites, by the way the Russian one.
Girls in Kiev advetizing for sex for money... (under 25 y.o. officialy declared, might be 2-5 more):
http://www.flirt.com.ua/lakri222/
http://www.flirt.com.ua/tetyanka22/
http://www.flirt.com.ua/elizavetabb/
http://www.flirt.com.ua/jjjiiik/
http://www.flirt.com.ua/sado-mazasex7/
http://www.flirt.com.ua/nikysia/
Some speak English
IT
Euro, do a search of Uke Boy's posting in the Kiev and Kiev Escort thread. They are all on topic, the information is 100% accurate. If you read all of them they will answer 95% of your questions.
If you are too lazy to do this, then too bad.
Until now, I only learned that there is a highly unsecure place (River Palace), where 50% of the people could easily catch some girl and the rest could not.
Only? Apart from River Palace, tons of other places have been discussed here: Arena, Moda Bar, Dance&Groove (former Tchaikovski), Carribean, Decadence, Docker's (and a more recent Docker's ABC on Khreshatyk), Forsage, FreeDom, Joss, Kaif, Millenium, Opium, PatiPa, Rest Town, Ring, Shooters, Tatoo, etc... I think that Opium and Ring are closed now, but new ones are opening almost every month.
Can't believe somebody can't get laid at River Palace.... Some may not want to pay the asking price, but to say that they can't get laid is total misinformation. Just like saying you can't have a hamburger at Mc Donald because you don't want to pay.
Be) are there some clubs/discos where a 45-yo man, not totally bad-looking, but certainly not young and smart, can go, with the hope of finding 1-2 girls within 2 hours?
There are tons of them if you speak some Russian and are willing to spend some money.
If you don't speak Russian and are looking for freebies who will pay you your drink, you're out of luck. (I guess that's the 50% guys who don't get laid at RP).
Jim
Euro, Cruiser is correct. If you had put a little more effort into it, and you admit you just "browsed," you would not have had to write your post. And ignore IT Travel's posts since his comments about the scene here are generally useless. Coming all the way here for a rub and a tug is an incredible waste of time and money. There is so much "talent" available for all sorts of sex way beyond hand jobs.
The best website is www.top-models.ua.com. It has an English language variant and also lists girls whose photos are mostly real. Prices are reasonable, at least when compared to the overpriced nonsense of GIA and the huge rip-off of Royal.
If you go to River Palace, which I suggest you do, to all of the ladies, it is not how you look but the color of your money and especially the quantity of the money that you offer. Nothing else matters to them.
If you are intimidated by your looks, then don't even think of coming here. You have lost before you have even begun.
I am the other side of 55, nothing on top but physically fit and know the language. Last evening, I picked up a young lady while we were both observing the concert listings at a Metrograd box office. I started speaking to her about what was listed and tomorrow we will have a nice dinner somewhere.
I rarely go to the discos (you can ask the expert Cruiser or better yet, RTFF), but certainly bars and cafes are great places to meet. But not if you have issues with yourself. You already have lost.
So there you have lots of practical advice and some advice you may not want to have heard but it is all a fact.
Euro, Cruiser is correct. If you had put a little more effort into it, and you admit you just "browsed," you would not have had to write your post. And ignore IT Travel's posts since his comments about the scene here are generally useless. Coming all the way here for a rub and a tug is an incredible waste of time and money. There is so much "talent" available for all sorts of sex way beyond hand jobs.
The best website is www.top-models.ua.com. It has an English language variant and also lists girls whose photos are mostly real. Prices are reasonable, at least when compared to the overpriced nonsense of GIA and the huge rip-off of Royal.
If you go to River Palace, which I suggest you do, to all of the ladies, it is not how you look but the color of your money and especially the quantity of the money that you offer. Nothing else matters to them.
If you are intimidated by your looks, then don't even think of coming here. You have lost before you have even begun.
I am the other side of 55, nothing on top but physically fit and know the language. Last evening, I picked up a young lady while we were both observing the concert listings at a Metrograd box office. I started speaking to her about what was listed and tomorrow we will have a nice dinner somewhere.
I rarely go to the discos (you can ask the expert Cruiser or better yet, RTFF), but certainly bars and cafes are great places to meet. But not if you have issues with yourself. You already have lost.
So there you have lots of practical advice and some advice you may not want to have heard but it is all a fact.
Thank for beeing so kind... why useless? All the links are real photos with real girls, 300/400 a night, 12-14 hours.
By the way the real link to the site you are meaning is:
http://www.top-models.com.ua/
Some are even the same that on www.uakisski.com.ua
http://www.top-models.com.ua/?id=420
http://www.uakisski.com/mirochka.htm
An by the way do not be impressioned by the single hour price. It may be much lower or variable. But the night price is always the same 300-400 USD.
I always go for nights.
IT
Only? Apart from River Palace, tons of other places have been discussed here: Arena, Moda Bar, Dance&Groove (former Tchaikovski), Carribean, Decadence, Docker's (and a more recent Docker's ABC on Khreshatyk), Forsage, FreeDom, Joss, Kaif, Millenium, Opium, PatiPa, Rest Town, Ring, Shooters, Tatoo, etc... I think that Opium and Ring are closed now, but new ones are opening almost every month.
Can't believe somebody can't get laid at River Palace.... Some may not want to pay the asking price, but to say that they can't get laid is total misinformation. Just like saying you can't have a hamburger at Mc Donald because you don't want to pay.
There are tons of them if you speak some Russian and are willing to spend some money.
If you don't speak Russian and are looking for freebies who will pay you your drink, you're out of luck. (I guess that's the 50% guys who don't get laid at RP).
Jim
I agree with you. If you want to get laid and pay it is impossible to not get laid at RP or Rest Town.
IT
Hello all,
The only guys who don't get laid in Kiev are men with no money and no personality and no brains and no courage and no dick.
IT,
I call them as I see them.
Yes, you are correct, sometimes things do go ass backwards and the actual link is http://www.top-models.com.ua/
Your link also does not work, the correct one to use is www.uakisski.com
Unfortunately the kisski site is all in Russian while the top-models site has an English version for the linguistically handicapped. Many if not all of the girls are the same on both sites and they are on many many other sites as well. It just that you want to go to sites that are easy to use and understand.
With regards to your post here are a few answers that might prove useful
A) www.top-models.com.ua is worth a try but pick the few who speak English otherwise you may not get past first base.
B) If you want a club or bar just for getting laid then I guess it has to be that tired old ***** the River Palace, or alternatively Arena, but here you have to take a little care because not all the girls there are p4p's. You can also strike lucky in Dockers ABC, that's in Le Passage just off of Kryshatik. It is still possible on a spring afternoon to find a girl on the pavement cafes of Kryshatik, just sit at one of the tables with a foreign language newspaper and smile at any single women around who happens to glance your way, I know it sounds naff but SOMETIMES it really can work in Kiev.
C) As for clothes smart/casual is the order of the day, just make sure that your tee shirt or shirt is clean and ironed. But most important of all in this town is YOUR SHOES ! I don't know if the average Kiev girl has a shoe fetish but believe me they will nearly all check out your shoes so make sure they're clean and reasonably fashionable. With regards to pickpockets Kiev is probably no worse than any other European capital, the Metro is where you are most likely to be targeted. Best thing is to buy one of thse leather money pouches you can get in duty free, the ones that loop over your belt and tuck inside the waistband of your trousers.
D) If you stay around the city centre you will be pretty secure and not have too many problems. I personally don't go over to the left bank, thats the other side of the River Dnipro, but that's mainly due to personal preference, many other contributors to this site would probably tell you it fine over there. The one thing to avoid at all costs is the guy who right in front of you picks up a wallet and asks "is this yours ?" If that happens just say "No speak English" and keep walking. Basically it's an age old street scam that has proved quite successful in Kiev when used on foreigners.
Once you get to know the city a little you will get a feel for the best areas for mongering and most importantly where you feel comfortable. If you are pleasant and polite to everyone, act like a gentleman and smile at the single women, make sure they're not with a guy first!, then I don't think you will have too many problems getting laid.
I hope the above comments will prove useful to you.
I am sorry, but I have to write that, after having browsed this forum, I find it 100% useless to a man like, who is new to Kiev and Ukraine, and would like to find some useful information.
Until now, I only learned that there is a highly unsecure place (River Palace), where 50% of the people could easily catch some girl and the rest could not. So, I presume that the lucky 50% are already good-looking relatively young chaps, who could easily find a girl in any club. But I am not, and I want anyhow f***.
Then I learned of an agency (GIA), also with the same controversial record of experiences, and nother agency (Royal Kiev) probably out-of-market (300 $/hour. No, thanks)
Finally, a long, tiring series of quarrels between AU and the rest-of-the-forum, with a lot of comments (for me) absolutely uninteresting about life in Lugansk, etc. , etc. , etc.
What a beginner like me would like to know is:
A) is there some website ALSO in english, which is relatively reliable, with profiles of girls working in Kiev?
Be) are there some clubs/discos where a 45-yo man, not totally bad-looking, but certainly not young and smart, can go, with the hope of finding 1-2 girls within 2 hours?
See) if one is properly dressed, even when one strolls somewhere, the chances of mongering increase? Or one simply becomes an easy target for pickpocketers (or worse)?
D) are there some areas in Kiev which a foreigner should avoid? And some other areas good for mongering?
If somebody would be interested in giving few answers to these PRACTICAL, concrete questions, I would be grateful.
Street Sleuth
03-23-07, 21:41
On the money scam side:
In one EE city, in the center, on the main sidewalk, I saw a wad of cash in a plastic bag - sitting on the ground. A couple feet away was a sign, written in Russian, "If it isn't yours, don't take it".
I didn't make anything of it at the time, but, come to think of it, must be the same kind of scam - locals will read the sign, and leave the money alone. Foreigners (non-russian speaking ones, anyway) will grab the money - and foreigners are the target.
Just thought I'd share that, for what its worth :)
Sorry, no good P4P stories today...
Euroknight
03-23-07, 23:26
Hello all,
The only guys who don't get laid in Kiev are men with no money and no personality and no brains and no courage and no dick.Well, I quote this particular answer only because of its anedoctical value, but in fact I would simply thank all those who provided some basic, clear, PRACTICAL information. Thank you, brothers!
I will probably go to Kiev for the first time in a few weeks, and I will certainly follow your precious advices. I take for granted that if you look shy you will never monger anybody in no place - do not worry, I am not so naive, and I do not think that anybody here is naive.
I also realise that it would be wise to learn some basic words in ukrainian, just to survive.
If I will have something to tell, after I will be back, I will not miss to contribute to the list.
Down on RP, T? What happened?
99% of the girls in RP are working. If you do manage to hit on the 1% of girls there who aren't working don't worry about it, it's expected. Unless she is already with a guy, to hit on her then is just bad form regardless of her working status.
Arena/112/Decadance around 40% of the girls are working. Generally just approach the girl normally. If she is working sooner or later the topic of money will come up.
As far as the left bank/right bank thing goes. If you limit yourself you really are missing out on some great clubs and a truly local vibe. Try taking a spin over to Gidro Park with Disco Bruce, T. ;)
For the "here you have to take a little care because not all the girls there are p4p's", I understood that Tremayne is refering to Arena, not RP.
IT,
I call them as I see them.
Yes, you are correct, sometimes things do go ass backwards and the actual link is http://www.top-models.com.ua/
Your link also does not work, the correct one to use is www.uakisski.com
Unfortunately the kisski site is all in Russian while the top-models site has an English version for the linguistically handicapped. Many if not all of the girls are the same on both sites and they are on many many other sites as well. It just that you want to go to sites that are easy to use and understand.
Just use a translator, babelfish and www.translator.ru works very good.
IT
IT,
Think about it, if you can.
It's OK to use a translator like babelfish or any of the others. So now what?
You are linguistically challenged (no Russian language knowledge) and you call.
"I don't speak English...."
And you keep calling until you hit the right one who understands enough English. That is the problem with your kisski site.
At least with top-models and a few other sites, there are more than a few who list very clearly "I speak English" plus all of their services and prices.
That's really what the guys who come here need, something that can get them to their goal with the minimum of time and problems.
Euroknight
03-24-07, 15:07
IT,
....
That's really what the guys who come here need, something that can get them to their goal with the minimum of time and problems.Exactly: I think that UB caught the point. There are various types of mongers: I belong to the "busy" type, the one who arrivs in some place usually because of work, and after 6pm would like to spend a couple of hours of casual relationship. Clearly, people like me look for the p4p only - I have no time for long searches in discos etc. And, to be 100% honest, even if I had time, I would not be anyhow interested in spending it in this.
I simply look for decently looking and decently behaving girls/ladies, possibly the GF-type, who give a couple of hours for reasonable amount of money.
Hi Cruiser D
It's not so much that I'm down on RP it's just that when you keep going to the same source of supply all the time it starts to get a little mundane. The thing is the place still has the biggest supply of p4p's in the city, I haven't found anywhere else that has a ratio of 99% working girls.
As for hanging out with Disco Bruce if it's the same guy that I'm thinking of I'll need to take a lot of cash with me, the last time Bruce bought a round Maddona was still a virgin.
Down on RP, T? What happened?
99% of the girls in RP are working. If you do manage to hit on the 1% of girls there who aren't working don't worry about it, it's expected. Unless she is already with a guy, to hit on her then is just bad form regardless of her working status.
Arena/112/Decadance around 40% of the girls are working. Generally just approach the girl normally. If she is working sooner or later the topic of money will come up.
As far as the left bank/right bank thing goes. If you limit yourself you really are missing out on some great clubs and a truly local vibe. Try taking a spin over to Gidro Park with Disco Bruce, T. ;)
Just thought I'd add some data points that I came across recently. Thanks to the continued mentoring of 'agent L' and Cruiser D, I had the occasion to visit the Rio strip club first, followed by RP.
I believe that if you go to Rio, the downstairs dance room is more intimate, and the girls seem to enjoy themselves more. Take-out is $200 plus taxi fare in all cases, as far as I know, for 2 hours. In the future, I'll avoid mixed drinks and especially ladies drinks. The bar tab for 2 gin and tonics plus one fruity concoction for the girl came out to around 180 hrv, which is a rip. Beer is a safe bet here.
I'd been avoiding RP because of the reports of rampant price gouging reported here often. Agent L dragged me there anyway, and I'm glad he did. The atmosphere is to my liking even if not looking for take-out. Cover charge and drink prices seem in line with anywhere else. I have confirmed info that my colleague paid $150 for a very stunning blond for a few hours. Unfortunately, her phone number seems to be bogus. I can tell you that my friend as a 5 foot 5 inch tall guy who will certainly not win any modeling jobs, so I think he did well for RP.
I was quoted $300 by one I was interested in. I smiled and shook my head and said $150. We settled on 200 and she stayed the entire night (and may have stayed much longer if I didn't need to catch my flight).
These prices are high, yes, but for infrequent special occasions, I'm willing to go for it. I'm extremely picky, so knowing exactly what you are getting is sometimes worth the premium.
IT,
I call them as I see them.
Yes, you are correct, sometimes things do go ass backwards and the actual link is http://www.top-models.com.ua/
Your link also does not work, the correct one to use is www.uakisski.com
Unfortunately the kisski site is all in Russian while the top-models site has an English version for the linguistically handicapped. Many if not all of the girls are the same on both sites and they are on many many other sites as well. It just that you want to go to sites that are easy to use and understand.
Top models has that great "english" search filter, although you only get 8 hits, all in the $100/hr category. Possibly the site admin should remind the girls to add that notation, as otherwise 90% of the girls are assumed to be russian-speaking only.
Explorer69
03-25-07, 23:34
Brandon,
Where is the Rio strip club? I never heard about it, but sometimes I enjoy pulling a great girl out of a strip club.. More information is appreciated!
Irina
I just wanted some “sure” fun for my birthday. So on ground I’m a single I rented Irina for two days (nearly 48 hours) since I landed with the plan. With Yulia (sick at that time) I found that she is one of the good girls at GIA. I chose GIA only for the girls, not the apartment or transport which I had already for work… just extended a little bit.
The body is as shown, the face a little bit different, larger nose, higher cheeks, let’s say more Siberian than Ukrainian.
She is nice in bed in all positions, specially doggy and cow girl (as I said already in a past report). Of course she is now a pro, with SM dresses, nurse dress etc. Always ready to be fucked. Unfortunately she, in reality do not like BBBJ and CIM, but in any case she got her mandatory COF!
During the meeting with her I arranged a 12 hours with the new Zarina, doing also anal sex and lesbi. So I had a threesome for all the day!
But I’ll tell the story in the next post.
Irina is a 5/6 in face and a 7/8 in body for my tastes, not so tall, soft body, big popka and really hard tits (she never wear bra). And she has a good (not exceptional) GFE. She is always redy for sex, whenever you want it, and after a long fuking she starts to get wet by her own.
Well spended money.
Unfortunately her English is very poor, but with my Russian and a dictionary we understand all.
IT
Zarina
I rented her in conjunction with Irina, se do not make overnights! So from 10 am to 11 pm (!).
A day of fun.
Her face is full, do not remember the English name of all this sun spots (now I remember frekles), she is far better than in pictures (in face). Despite this the body is not the maximum, some birth scars (only few), but most of all saggy tits (but with big erectile nipples).
When she come I had already fucked Irina, so I went on directly with her. But bevore we had a lot of preliminary like joint sucking, licking kissing and more. Nice and quite tight, doing cow girl very well. While Irina was taking care of my balls(!).
Was time for a brunch. So we went down took it in a bar and back to the house.
Time for a lesbo show with the girls taking care of each clito! WOW! I just sat in an armchair and looked. Not bad for rising your John (Cialis needed, on ground I came already 6/7 times with Irina).
So it was time to take Zarina anally in missionary. Irina was handling over condoms and lube and the starting deep French kissing Zarina while I was taking her. Fucked her so for half an hour or so. Then at the time of cumming I decides for a due COF, so they stayed close on the bed and got their face cream. :D
Time for Jacuzzi. All three in Jacuzzi (for two). A lot of kissing, cuddling, joking etc. An the to bed for an alternate cow girl…
Time to dinner.
Went to the restaurant, some joking.
Then back again for a final fuck devoted to Zarina while Irina was liking me everywhere. :) :)
Then she went home.
IT
I had rented her up to 24.00 but I had a date with Uliana at 22.30, so I said she could go at 22.00 and she was very happy (like a good tip).
She was doing all dressing as a nurse, being taken from behind (not anal unfortunately), on the kitchen board while cutting fish…
A lot of ball licking an sucking. And the day was gone.
The prices was the standard for GIA with a 100 USD discount.
IT
A good birthday wich was going even better! see next!
I have been in contact with her for long time by flirt, and later by ICQ and SMS. She just filled 20 some days ago.
So we decided a meeting at the bar Shato on K street for 22.30. Se was very on time. I was sistting at the bar desk on ground floor just having a beer she joined and took a Bailey.
Description:
Long blond hair in front of the face as in pics. Well bodies, approx. 177 or more, nearly 70 kg, sporty constitution, she swims, skates, play tennis etc.
There were just two problems. The poor girl is a little bit deaf and she wears a hearing device inside the left ear (no problem for me I will cum in the other! :D ). The other is worse she has a very bad skin on the face and three big acne marks on her face, specially on her right size, she is using a lot of make up, and uses the hair to cover the problem, but body, as you see in pics is nice, and the tits hard, and she get wet after a couple of kisses!
She did not like Shato, so we went to another restaurant, traditional by the way very near to my apartment.
I gave here a perfume I brought from the duty free.
After the dinner she asked me if we could go home… at my home! I was a little bit afraid by theft or so… just locked the door and made the key in a secret place. In 15 minutes we were in bed. I had already said that I was very tired (after a night with Irina, a day for a three some, and another night and day with Irina!) so we went to bed for a light fuck. She had to be at a lesson at 11 (styding and working in Tourism) so we had a lot of time.
In the morning I took her anally, she enjoys it very much even without lube (only natural coming from pussy). Nice fucks. But she says just now to BBBJ or whatever kind of Minet you imagin she do not like it. And facial with all this makeup was out of question. So she got some anal shots (covered of course) then she went.
I told her I had a working meeting in the evening so we could meet next day. It was OK (but the working meeting was another date! :D ). Ill’ write on Uliana here
Total costs of Uliana (2 nights)
Perfume 60 €
Two nice dinners 600 Grivnas
Some bars 300 Grivnas
Some makeup she forgot home 150 grivnas
(two Cialis and a 12 box of condoms)
Can say 250 € but I would have dined in any case so in reality it might be 150/180 excluding my bar part.
A very nice girl… (unfortunate for her acne and being deaf) nice fuck. I will surely get her more, she just wrote me… When are you coming to Kiev?
I think she could be a free MT for those who do not care so much on the face, the body is 6/7, but she takes it to the last mm and enjoys it a lot too… of course a normal girl not a pro!
Her page on flirt:
http://www.flirt.com.ua/orange2005_06/
(She even put her naked pic….!!!) I did it you see the fill one on the link below.
My pics on ISG:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=575678&postcount=582
IT
Maverick2007
03-26-07, 17:16
Zarina
I rented her in conjunction with Irina, se do not make overnights! So from 10 am to 11 pm (!).
A day of fun.
Her face is full, do not remember the English name of all this sun spots (now I remember frekles), she is far better than in pictures (in face). Despite this the body is not the maximum, some birth scars (only few), but most of all saggy tits (but with big erectile nipples).
When she come I had already fucked Irina, so I went on directly with her. But bevore we had a lot of preliminary like joint sucking, licking kissing and more. Nice and quite tight, doing cow girl very well. While Irina was taking care of my balls(!).
Was time for a brunch. So we went down took it in a bar and back to the house.
Time for a lesbo show with the girls taking care of each clito! WOW! I just sat in an armchair and looked. Not bad for rising your John (Cialis needed, on ground I came already 6/7 times with Irina).
So it was time to take Zarina anally in missionary. Irina was handling over condoms and lube and the starting deep French kissing Zarina while I was taking her. Fucked her so for half an hour or so. Then at the time of cumming I decides for a due COF, so they stayed close on the bed and got their face cream. :D
Time for Jacuzzi. All three in Jacuzzi (for two). A lot of kissing, cuddling, joking etc. An the to bed for an alternate cow girl…
Time to dinner.
Went to the restaurant, some joking.
Then back again for a final fuck devoted to Zarina while Irina was liking me everywhere. :) :)
Then she went home.
ITHey, IT. It is Inga who is Zarina now at http://www.gia.com.ua ?? This is great if it is she. She disappeared a year ago and now I see her with a new name. Anyway, fabulous anal is guaranteed ;) IT, have you tried it with Zarina? She likes it for sure!
Hey, IT. It is Inga who is Zarina now at http://www.gia.com.ua ?? This is great if it is she. She disappeared a year ago and now I see her with a new name. Anyway, fabulous anal is guaranteed ;) IT, have you tried it with Zarina? She likes it for sure!It was the biggest reason I choos her, as I wrote I took her anally a couple of times. All in missinary. In the first round Zarina and Irina got a joined facial (not as I liked because the balls were already drained..)
IT
PS Unfortunately no photo allowed!
Hi Guys
Not sure if I am posting in the right place. Anyway, I will be in Kiev 4/12 to 4/20. Anyone care to have a drink or play together. I would love to meet up with some of you guys
Have fun.
Felix Nordic
04-01-07, 22:50
I guess Uliana will be quite busy in the near future! I got good contact with her as well but unfortunately Im not in Uktaine now! After a few sms she openly admitted that she likes sex very much! An easy score! What a pity for me! She is not a top girl but seem to make that up with really hot sex! I dont think this feebie pleasure of Uliana will last very long. She will soon learn how to play the game!
Good luck to the rest of you!
Cheers,
Felix
What's happened to Kiev in recent months? The quality of girls has plummetted.
When in Kiev I usually check out 112 on Thursday, Friday and Saturday for its interesting mix of freebies and amateur working girls, and that feeling of never knowing exactly who's who :) But what I saw this time was a shock. Plenty of girls, but most of them complete dogs. And I mean, by UK standards, never mind Ukraine. You just would not talk to these women no matter how drunk you were.
And in River Palace, some real plain janes now demand $300 for 2 hours without so much as flinching. And their attitude stinks if they are even a tad over average or anything approaching pretty. They make it pretty clear that they've got no interest in you, just your wallet. Having no charm is almost part of their charm :)
Admittedly I did see some young stunners in PaTiPa (Thursday) and Kaif (Friday) but they were either only superficially friendly (that too if you speak Russian) or outright snooty. Has Kiev become the new London?
Kiev used to be the kind of place where you could get model type, or at least very sexy girls either on the night or after a couple of dates at the most. Now, really fat and/or ugly girls think they have a right to make a good living from p4p by charging $100 pn for take home from 112 and Shooters. Worst of all, they're getting it. Ok, some of them can be cute but they are now seriously in the minority.
Is it simply that the oligarchs are monopolising more and more of the top-end girls and squeezing us cost-conscious foreigners out? From what I understand salaries for ordinary workers are still shitty, around $200-300 per month.
I don't doubt that a sponsorship arrangement (say, $2000 per month + restaurants & shopping trips) would get you a top-end girlfriend, but is that really what it takes these days?
White Angel, the Moscow-based ex-bouncer and nightclub guide that I'm hiring for my trip there this coming week end reckons that the best Ukrainian girls have moved to Moscow (but then, he would say that). Anyway, I'll find out shortly...
Hello,, all,
Thanks to IT Travel I got to nail Uliana last week. I had been corresponding with her on an "ad hoc" basis before but I wasn't that pushed to meet her until I read his report.
Similar story for me.
Dinner in Entresol where she tried the old "I need new telephone routine etc" whereupon afterwards I told her I liked her but wasn't interested in buying phones for half of Kiev. She then asked me what I wanted and I replied "You know what I want".
She really likes her sex and outlasted me. In between shots she answered her messages on mail. Ru. Even 1 to IT Travel while I fingered her.
Dinner $60
A bottle of Martini $10
Using the forum to nail a sex bomb within 3 hours: Priceless.
Thanks IT Travel. I owe you one.You owe me one!
Preferably petite, devoted to anal and load swallowing!
If you see my last pcs on Uliana she is at the laptop answering messages from flirt! ans setting a date for the next day (I could not see her I had a petite 21 y.o.). Perhaps she was writing to you too!
For fun we could make a cross checking who fucked Mystery Tramp (at least I know already 10 here in the forum), and who fucked Uliana in the next six months! Probably half of the members of the board here.
We all think that we are the hunters of teens (she just filled 20 on March 7th), I think she is the real hunter trying, literally, hundred of cocks.
IT
I guess Uliana will be quite busy in the near future! I got good contact with her as well but unfortunately Im not in Uktaine now! After a few sms she openly admitted that she likes sex very much! An easy score! What a pity for me! She is not a top girl but seem to make that up with really hot sex! I dont think this feebie pleasure of Uliana will last very long. She will soon learn how to play the game!
Good luck to the rest of you!
Cheers,
FelixI really do not know if she will lear the game, but if you get her a small gift she likes perfumes, and other girl items, go do dinner in a nice restaurant and seh likes you you will be automatically fucked! By her of course.
Do not forget that she enjoy kissing (ad do fanatsic tongue work, and she enjoys anal too! Unfortunately no minet :( (BJ) with that tongue work it would have been fantastic! An she wouold recive from me (as the others) her mandadory COF!
Come soon to Kiev before she is worn out.... ;)
IT
Hello all,
I wrote to this girl Marina a few weeks ago just to say Hello,,. A week later, Darya, who turned out to be Marina using a 2nd profile wrote to me. She was looking for a rich lover blah blah blah. Open to all sex including anal for the experienced teacher etc.
Usual story. Dinner and we talked about her sick mother who was in hospital. So after dinner I asked her what she wanted to do and she didn't know so I said I did and we went up to my apartment.
After 3 way sex she asked if I had any dreams to which I said I was living it. I of course asked her if she had any. "yes, that she can afford medicine etc for her sick mother".
Now I don't mind helping but when she asked to borrow $400 for a few days I put her in the "scammer" category so sent her home with taxi money.
Anyway, my main reason for posting this is that she's a "player" but not a good one. So open season for anyone wishing to have a go!
She's more attractive in the flesh with a Spanish look if you like that.
http://www.singles.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=63105819Irish Lad!
As far as I know all these things flirt, mail, etc. have the same database so we will find her on flirt too...
Uliana asked me twice to send a SMS message from my rented phone (cost 7 Grivnas) to a special number getting out on flirt so she gets on the top of the list! A real pro man hunter. She told me se do it a couple of times a week. Did she ask you too?
When I'll be in Kiev (as PM'd you) you have to buy me at least a beer! (PS I have alraedy three telephones!) :D
IT
I'm speaking on Uliana, she wants to call the police, ask for 500 USD for Moral Damage... etc.
So I have deleted her fro my contacts and from my ICQ, some reports are still thre. I think Irish Lad will do the same.
She is in search of "fresh meat" and instead of beeing glad for getting more enthusiasts, she is so...
I'LL NEVER MEET HER AGAIN.
IT
Somebody has seen her at RP, but she do not answe on the telephone! one of the Kiev queen might be lost?
INFORMATION WANTED!
Here some pictures! (I do not remember If I posted this file already)
Mistery tramp pics
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=322592&postcount=78
five pics Dr Skank
http://www.intskankernationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=322656&postcount=81
five pics Dr Skank
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=322788&postcount=84
one pic Dr Skank
http://www.iternationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=323034&postcount=87
three pics Dr Skank
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=323056&postcount=89
one pics Dr Skank
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=323154&postcount=90
one pic Dr skank
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=326648&postcount=93
five pics IT Travel
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=327087&postcount=98
five pics IT Travel
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=337031&postcount=105
five pics IT Travel
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=418786&postcount=183
one pic Dr Skank
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=418789&postcount=185
one pic Dr Sklank
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=462430&postcount=239
five pics Crystal Cowboy
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=463124&postcount=241
one pic Dr Skank
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=463329&postcount=244
three pics IT Travel
More recent pics from IT Travel
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=533921&postcount=409
Pic from Bez
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=533991&postcount=410
Mystery Tramp has surely been fucked (and many other things) by:
Doctor Skank
Mangus Man
Roger Mellie
Mr Moore
IT Travel
Best Sex
Crystal Cowboy
Ballentyne 30
Tremayne
Please complete the list!
IT
We are here for fun! Don't take it too seriously! ;)
PS the best MT Pics in maximun definition "The helicopter" and the other two holes....
IF SOMEBODY KNOWS A NEW MOBILE PLEASE PM ME!
Bez Bezarra
04-02-07, 23:32
A mamachka told me she has to take some long time off because of bad case of the gerpes.
She must have got it from the gangsters.
A mamachka told me she had to retire because she is too sick from the SIDA.
She must have got it from a soldier or a gangster that had a bad needle sharing habit.
But somebody told me just last week she was seen at RP...
A real pity!
:(((
IT she was most definitely at RP last week no doubt about it. Dressed as always in a blue denim mini skirt and pink/white top.
i did her when she first started. that once was enough and thankfully, early enough.
since then, she has gone through so many mongers that she should be a millionairess by now. if not, then the rada should name her a national treasure and give her a pension. she deserves it.
perhaps our friend it travel should pick her up at rp, once again fulfill his teen anal [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) fantasy but this time without a condom. he can then tell us all about his hiv results in about six months, if bez was right about her.
Doctor_Skank
04-03-07, 22:10
She was great but she's been way too long in the business to have any spirit left... you'd think.
If she does still have spirit she is either:
1) completely high on drugs
2) completely stupid
3) completely insane
4) a wild-ass freakin' sex maniac
I think it's a combination of the 4. But she is an ISG icon.
Still don't think I'd go looking to tap that anymore. A bit too used.
Ash - I noticed from my last trip to Kiev if you make the usual tourist rounds in Kiev the talent hasn't been on par with what it has been in the past. However if you want to go a bit beyond being a tourist you will notice things haven't changed.
Bez, if you are being serious - another working girl or pimp saying a girl has HIV is a common ploy. Doesn't mean a thing either way. I had her my first time, first night in Kiev, first time at RP for the staggering fee of $100. See must truly be the Kiev gateway girl. I wouldn't touch her now if she gave me $100.
Dr S, I remember her telling me a sob story about her boyfriend being a coke head. But from her status seemingly having not changed since I met her four years ago I would say she is the one 'blowing' all of her money.
Doctor_Skank
04-03-07, 22:22
Ash - I noticed from my last trip to Kiev if you make the usual tourist rounds in Kiev the talent hasn't been on par with what it has been in the past. However if you want to go a bit beyond being a tourist you will notice things haven't changed.
Bez, if you are being serious - another working girl or pimp saying a girl has HIV is a common ploy. Doesn't mean a thing either way. I had her my first time, first night in Kiev, first time at RP for the staggering fee of $100. See must truly be the Kiev gateway girl. I wouldn't touch her now if she gave me $100.
Dr S, I remember her telling me a sob story about her boyfriend being a coke head. But from her status seemingly having not changed since I met her four years ago I would say she is the one 'blowing' all of her money.
Cruiser D:
Yeah, she told a lot of stories. Boyfriend being a cokehead, saving money for "institut", driving a trolley bus (my personal favorite) and wanting to become a model. We texted for quite a while and sent some emails... very brief text though. Don't think she was too computer savvy. Really a nice girl... but she's every one of those 4 things I wrote in my last post.
As for quality in Kiev, I agree... it's still there.. but not out there looking just to find a foreigner. We do have to look a little farther for the good stuff than 112 and Arena.
Doctor_Skank
04-03-07, 22:25
perhaps our friend it travel should pick her up at rp, once again fulfill his teen anal [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) fantasy but this time without a condom. he can then tell us all about his hiv results in about six months, if bez was right about her.
no uke boy, it can't see any other girls in kiev otherwise uliana will come and kick his ass.
she's wearing the pants in the family, didn't you see the pictures?
As for quality in Kiev, I agree... it's still there.. but not out there looking just to find a foreigner. We do have to look a little farther for the good stuff than 112 and Arena.
Are we talking about Hidro Park and the dreaded left bank? Where anyone looking even slightly foreign is guaranteed to be lynched by the local Keep-Uke-Girls-For-Uke-Guys mob? :)
Actually I've heard that 112 at around 3am on Thursdays and Saturdays is THE place to be for amateurs. Quality variable. Caveat emptor. But you do get a far more human attitude.
Obviously I would appreciate any new information. I've been visiting Kiev on and off for 2 years now and would like to graduate from being a tourist.
And can we *please* move on from discussing the multiple abuse of a poor disabled girl? :)
She was great but she's been way too long in the business to have any spirit left... you'd think.
If she does still have spirit she is either:
1) completely high on drugs
2) completely stupid
3) completely insane
4) a wild-ass freakin' sex maniac
I think it's a combination of the 4. But she is an ISG icon.
Still don't think I'd go looking to tap that anymore. A bit too used.
Doc I agree.
She said her own she drinks to much vodka, and I saw the different on three different girls... Sveta from Gia (when she became sober!), the Tatar girl and MT. The last is like getting a drunk cat in the bed... But I think you have experienced..
Yes she is an ISG Icon, at least for Ukraine.
By the way I do not think I'll meet Uliana any more... she is good, but on the "wrond side", too angry some times. Surely she so not feel this as a problem.
I would like to meet once more MT, gert her enough drunk, to make la lot of pics, unfortunately she is not so naive as in 2004-5. But with the halp of vodka I think I can get her to some nice, photographed, cum slurping... :) :)
IT
No Uke Boy, IT can't see any other girls in Kiev otherwise Uliana will come and kick his ass.
She's wearing the pants in the family, didn't you see the pictures?
Sorry, Doc, but Uliana will not kick his ass.
She will fuck his ass and he will enjoy it.
Captain Fire
04-04-07, 12:04
Hi Guys
A bit off topic, but how are things in Kiev today. Down south here, ( Vinnitsa ) I see lots of reports on tent city in square, orange and blue facing off, lots of john laws on scene. Any problems on the streets or clubs anyone sees. I'm heading out through Kiev in 10 days so would like to know if the city is heating up.
Cap
Hi Guys
A bit off topic, but how are things in Kiev today. Down south here, ( Vinnitsa ) I see lots of reports on tent city in square, orange and blue facing off, lots of john laws on scene. Any problems on the streets or clubs anyone sees. I'm heading out through Kiev in 10 days so would like to know if the city is heating up.
Cap
I needed to run around town today. While I did not get to Maidan nor Khreshchatik, everything and everyone was absolutely normal.
So normal that traffic in most of the city was mostly either at a crawl or at a dead stop.
I would say that if you ignore the news, you will be better off.
Other than a few thousand paid supporters demonstrating for each side, everyone else is going about their life since politics is the realm of the "bandits" and "thieves." This is their fight.
Hi Guys
A bit off topic, but how are things in Kiev today. Down south here, ( Vinnitsa ) I see lots of reports on tent city in square, orange and blue facing off, lots of john laws on scene. Any problems on the streets or clubs anyone sees. I'm heading out through Kiev in 10 days so would like to know if the city is heating up.
Cap
No tanks in the streets yet, see for yourself...
http://webcam.inter.ua/en/640x480.html
Hello all,
On the topic of sponsorship. Here's a girl I nailed a few weeks back. It's not her photo but similar in looks. She was looking for long term sponsorship but I agreed a "casual" arrangement with her. Sunday nights are quiet enough in Kiev and they're the perfect night for getting over a "regular" and having a quiet night in with lots of sex if Saturday didn't quite go to plan.
Anyway, my proposal was loosely based on the eBay business plan. I would sms her at 6pm if I was in the mood and she had until 7pm to accept $100 for the night or look elsewhere. So we met for coffee the 1st time and up to the apartment for sex, DVD and then more sex. She doesn't like anal but loves having her ass licked and really gets off on toys. She's bisexual so we plan a few nights with "extra pussy" as she calls it.
http://www.singles.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=119583706
Life's a *****
Hello all,
On the topic of sponsorship. Here's a girl I nailed a few weeks back. It's not her photo but similar in looks. She was looking for long term sponsorship but I agreed a "casual" arrangement with her. Sunday nights are quiet enough in Kiev and they're the perfect night for getting over a "regular" and having a quiet night in with lots of sex if Saturday didn't quite go to plan.
Anyway, my proposal was loosely based on the eBay business plan. I would sms her at 6pm if I was in the mood and she had until 7pm to accept $100 for the night or look elsewhere. So we met for coffee the 1st time and up to the apartment for sex, DVD and then more sex. She doesn't like anal but loves having her ass licked and really gets off on toys. She's bisexual so we plan a few nights with "extra pussy" as she calls it.
http://www.singles.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=119583706
Life's a *****
Interesting approach. How did you first meet her?
Hi,
I met her on www.singles.ru
You can do a search for "Looking for sponsor" girls, or "maximisation of sex" profiles and write to them. IT Travel seems to use this approach a lot also judging from his reports.
Anyway, someone from here wrote to her saying "his irish friend" recommended her and I got an angry call from her the other day so I need to repair some damage there. Not to worry. 100's more.
Irish...Irish...when confronted with something like that you are supposed to say. 'What are you talking about? I never told anyone else about you, I like you too much. You must be having sex with another Irish guy in Kiev you ****'. Trust me, statistical probability is in your favor. ;)
Hi,
I met her on www.singles.ru
You can do a search for "Looking for sponsor" girls, or "maximisation of sex" profiles and write to them. IT Travel seems to use this approach a lot also judging from his reports.
Anyway, someone from here wrote to her saying "his irish friend" recommended her and I got an angry call from her the other day so I need to repair some damage there. Not to worry. 100's more.
Yes!
The database is the same as www.flirt.com.ua
Ond ground I'm not paying anything I can't make real search (only place and age), but I usually search in appointment or meetings the girls who would go out for sex... just found one little 19teen for my next trip... :D
IT
Dear ISGers,
Can you recommend a decent apartment or "salon" in Kiev, since I don't have time to go through RP or find a freebie somewhere else. to be honest, GIA is way overpriced...or maybe some independents
Thanx
Dear Pupsnu,
All right, I apologize for the upcoming rant, but...
With regard to your request for assistance from other members here I am sure you will be inundated with PM’s helping you considering your contribution to the forum as listed below. You’re a “senior member” for some reason and if you promise to report after your visit to Kiev then I will be glad to find out what you wish to know presuming of course your mailbox is not already full. I also am short of time so you'll need to be quick.
"Can you recommend a decent apartment or "salon" in Kiev, since I don't have time to go through RP or find a freebie somewhere else. to be honest, GIA is way overpriced...or maybe some independents?"
"Can someone help me find address of Maxim and ideally a phone number? I don't read german, so other boards are not much help, and google does not want to find it either."
"I cannot find Maxim in forums or in Google. Can someone help me with the address, prices, and maybe a website?"
"I will be in Dresden for few days and wanted to know if there are any clubs near by."
"Please help. I will be in Dusseldorf next week. Which FKK Club is the closest to the city?"
"Please help. I will be in Dusseldorf next week. Which PartyTreff Club is the closest to the city? Also, until when are they open?"
"I need to find out if there is a florist in Kiev that I can call, give my credit card number and have them deliver quality flowers."
"All right, I apologize for the upcoming rant, but..."
IL
Irish...Irish...when confronted with something like that you are supposed to say. 'What are you talking about? I never told anyone else about you, I like you too much. You must be having sex with another Irish guy in Kiev you ****'. Trust me, statistical probability is in your favor. ;)Hi Cruiser,
The truth is that she called me at an inconvenient time and my natural response was not appropriate at that juncture. As you know, she can either like it or lump it.
that you can find sex and stuff about girls on the Internet? No, you must be joking, girl. Well I never.
And I never admit to reading anything about a girl, a club or whatever on the Internet.
ISG ? Must stand for the International Swimming Group.
And like us all, I have heard most of the lines - "How did you find out about this club, girl, me?
My closest to the mark answer is: A friend told me that I should drop in if I had the time when in "place name of City here".
Nothing good can come out of a dicussion about the Internet - and especially this site with our favorite prey.
Chill Bill
04-17-07, 13:59
Greetings! Will be in Kiev tomorrow and Thursday night. Wanted to know what the latest RP scene is like. Are we still looking at $200 as a starting point? How is the talent level these days?
Also, besides Arena, what are some other good places these days to find semi-pros or non-pros with no morals. ;)
Thanks!
Has someone used this agency for rent an apartment?
www.rentapartments.com. Ua
Is it affidable? They do not ask for prepayment. This seems me strange.
Thank you
Try Shooters I was there the other night and noticed a lot of young girls who didn't seem like the normal student types. This was at around 01.00 on a Thursday.
Greetings! Will be in Kiev tomorrow and Thursday night. Wanted to know what the latest RP scene is like. Are we still looking at $200 as a starting point? How is the talent level these days?
Also, besides Arena, what are some other good places these days to find semi-pros or non-pros with no morals. ;)
Thanks!
tremayne, where is shooters located? I'm not familiar with that one.
To all, I plan to return to Kiev next week. Any fellow mongers interested in joining up for a drink, please drop me a line.
Hello,
Shooters is located on Moskovskaya street 22. It is located about 5 minutes by car from Bessarabska plocha (Arena City).
Doctor_Skank
04-19-07, 09:11
I enjoy Shooters and like the layout with a long bar in the middle, which helps contact. There's also a nice more private area upstairs to retreat to... hopefully with a girl. The tables upstairs are kind of secluded and dark and make for romantic possibilities... :) Very little pickup action upstairs though, more of a place to bring somebody.
Downstairs is usually good, a bit rambunctious and fun. Negative aspect is that the club is very popular with foreigners, so sometimes the girl-boy ration isn't in our favor. Especially in summer expect to see a lot of Europeans and Turks there, mixed in with some locals. Nonetheless, worth a look. It's a short cab ride away from PaTiPa and Kaif if real clubs are more your thing.
Shooters is just as the name suggests... a place to get drunk.
Just my 2 cents...
Ok guys off to Kiev later this month.
This is the first of many trips to come to Kiev over the next few years.
Whats the definate "must do"?
Thanks guys
The definite "MUST DO" from you and your amateur hour brothers is to post your experiences, good and bad.
Too many posts like yours go on about "help me" but too few then subsequently post anything about their experiences and never contribute anything, of value or even no value.
For those of you who fall into the "help me" category, all we can say is RTFF.
So which category will you fall into, actual contributor or another time waster? I guess time will only tell.
Uke Boy,
Please see my other posts as to what I am and if I give feedback, then you will see I am for sure the "real deal"
Thanks
Q
Qjump,
I did look at your previous posts before I wrote mine.
You only have one post there of any value. The rest are mostly the "help me" type.
From my point of view, I am very doubtful of most newbies' promises to post useful information. I can go through this forum (and many others) and list too many nicks of those who made lots of promises to post upon receipt of "help" but never delivered, disappearing from sight for whatever reason.
I hope you prove yourself, as you say, to be the "real deal."
Dr Skank
It's true Shooters had very little p4p action but things have changed up there, try it on a Thursday around midnight -01.00 am you will be surprised.
I enjoy Shooters and like the layout with a long bar in the middle, which helps contact. There's also a nice more private area upstairs to retreat to. Hopefully with a girl. The tables upstairs are kind of secluded and dark and make for romantic possibilities. Very little pickup action upstairs though, more of a place to bring somebody.
Downstairs is usually good, a bit rambunctious and fun. Negative aspect is that the club is very popular with foreigners, so sometimes the girl-boy ration isn't in our favor. Especially in summer expect to see a lot of Europeans and Turks there, mixed in with some locals. Nonetheless, worth a look. It's a short cab ride away from PaTiPa and Kaif if real clubs are more your thing.
Shooters is just as the name suggests. A place to get drunk.
Just my 2 cents.
SpanishBoy 29
04-23-07, 15:19
Many people inside here is rich, why spend so much money, you pay more end european price, why so travel to kiev? Stay in west european is better. Normal price is between 45$-80$ in 1 hour if you pay more so you have pay overprice. In riverpalace is the price from 100$. 200$ but no more. When I was in kiev, I could see many monger spoild the market, some one pay 400 $ to a girl, I was in chock, and this girl was only 8 body. I want to say kiev is a safe place, don't be drunk, don't take a girl from another boy. When you walk down the street act like you know the city, don't take a big card map of kiev and a big camera, don't show you are tourist you will be overpriced every where. Kievgirls like man dress well is very important boys. But you have to know there are many pepole can not speak english. Don't take taxi before you make a deal, don't pay overpriced in day time is 10 gr and in night is from 15-30gr. I pay from the city to riverpalace 20gr and back 25g.
You have to know kiev change is not cheap anymore, the price go up every where and they are many rich ukraine pepole now. I will be in kiev again with my frensh friend in week 21. If someone want to meet for a beer just write to me. I never in my life pay for sex, I fuck so many girls in west europe, is easy. And in ukraine is so easy for me they come to me. Is so important how you dress and especiel shoes. I understand people who is for business in kiev and have no time, so is okay to use Gia, but people who stay more 1 week no, girls is everywhere, play your game and be careful. Please don't fight for a girls there are so many girls. If you are more end 40 + and up is best to go to bar is more easy because a lot of young and well dress ukraine boy now, you have no chance, that why the girl say to you 300 dollars. Decadence is more for elite rich ukraine men a lot of money and ofcorse beautiful girls, and of course is best to stay in apartment is easy to bring a girl home and fuck no securite man who will spoiled your night) Kiev is safe, but remember all time your paper with you, so have fun guys, I am sorry for my english.
I just returned from a trip to kiev. It’s the second time that I have been there. I love the city and I love the people. I live in Budapest, and know East and Central Europe for many years. I find Kiev refreshing! The girls really are something, the city has a great atmosphere, and generally people smile and are friendly. I had a stand at an exhibition, expensive but worth it. I managed to arrange 2 really sweet, pretty and intelligent student girls to help man the stand. I loved it and so did they! On the mongering side I have only one experience to report. I get the GIA site emails, but they look a little expensive, but seems like a reliable site. Certainly well marketed! I decided just to call a number in one of the English language newspapers. I did not have long, as had to met the girls for dinner etc. I rang the number; I had already tested it before, and confirmed the price at $80 for one hour. Its great they still work in $, with it so weak! I was told a girl would arrive outside the hotel 30 minutes later, and that I should call them again to confirm. When the appointed time arrived, I called again, and they confirmed I should go down. I met a guy there, established identity, then went to a car, where the girl, . Jula, exited. I payed the $ to the pimp, and the girl escorted me to the room. Pretty, about 1. 78 m, slim and well proportioned, as one expects in Ukraine! Looked a little surly, and had no English! However once in the room, she turned to me and immediately kissed me lightly on the lips! I thought, Hello,,, this is looking good! I offered a drink from the mini bar. We shared a beer. We turned the inevitable TV on, found a music site, and had it blasting virtually full volume! Oh she checked into HQ, with a short telecon from the room. Lit a cigarette (she), watched the TV while we drank and lightly touched each other. I was feeling good, it was slow and relaxed. Some minutes later we began to remove the outer layers of clothing, and we were down to the bra and pants. She was relaxed, and so was I. The kissing, including French and tounging was grrrrrrrreeaat! She appeared to enjoy it as much as me! We tried communicating a little verbally, but she had zero English, and was obviously un experienced with sign language! Still the language of sex is universal, so we did not allow any communication problems get in our way! It was turning out to be a real GFE! Up till now we had been sitting on the bed, now we turned and lay on the bed, continuing our deep kissing and rubbing and stroking each other. It was then time to strip completely. I straddled above her, she took my cock and stroked it, while my fingers worked on her clit and fanny. I m pleased to say she was wet in no time. We changed positions, she put a rubber on me and began to suck my dick. I prefer without condom, but was not going to complain. Some minutes later we took up the missionary position, and continued to French kiss, which I loved, but which she virtually insisted on! Then she was on top for quite awhile, then back to missionary and eventually I came. Then we sat up, drank more, she smoked, caressed each other. Danced naked and so on. Usually by this time the girls are rushing out or looking at their watches. On this occasion I was the one watching the clock! Eventually I had to tell her I had to leave, in my sweaty state! , in 5 mins, to join my other beautiful student girls for dinner! What a terrible life. How does one cope! The only disapointment was that I could not get her mobile tel, as her battery was dead, and apparently she did not know her number, though she took mine. If I was living there I the have been back with her the next nite, unfortunately it was my last nite. But I am not disappointed. I enjoyed again the whole experience of Kiev, my business there seems to be starting well, I can fly there from BP in 1. 30 hrs, and will need to visit frequently, along with my other favourite country, Romania, but that’s because I have my long term girlfriend there. It would be too much to explain all the intricacies of my love web in EE, but actually one thing one can be sure of, as a mature man, with a healthy business and a love of travel, I don’t find it hard to find attractive women in this part of the world! Thanks for reading this, if you did! And let me know if you have questions or comments!
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
I would suggest the following from some limited experience.
1. Find a Lada taxi and take the phone number of the driver. Lada drivers do not charge much. Everytime you want to get somewhere call him. Do not take taxis outside discos, clubs, places with foreigners. You will get ripped off.
2. From the airport you should not pay over 120 grivnia maximum. If sb starts talking with you avoid him and get to the taxis in row.
3. Do not try to pick up girls in metro. They consider you cheap sex tourist.
4. Visit Carribean. Many freebies, statistics work.
5. Visit Decadence for the eye candy.
6. Do not trust internet contacts. Very difficult to do one night stands.
7. Bring with you 300$ minimum for every day.
8. Get out of Kiev after weekend.
9. Bring condoms from home.
Englishman
04-24-07, 09:04
Hi. I have just stumbled across this forum whilst doing an internet search during my time here in Kiev. I am here for a total of two weeks for my first ever time (but not my last).
I came here to meet a couple of women I have contacted through one of the many East European dating sites.
I met one of them the other day - very young (I am somewhat middle aged) and very attractive. Also very much a scammer. She screwed me out of a whole 400 hrvinas (about $80 I think). If she had been smarter, she could have got more I'm sure!
I consoled myself with a visit from Nika from vodka escorts. $720 for 24hrs - and a fantastic experience. She is a very beautiful girl and speaks really good English. Very eager to please and kept asking what I wanted and how I wanted it - and then delivered! The website quotes $660 for 24hrs but if the girl lives outside of Kiev (as Nika does) you are then quoted travel expenses for her. To be fair, the manager does tell you this before arrangements are made.
I am due to meet the second woman I contacted through the dating agency in a few days, but meanwhile I am going to check out a couple of the places mentioned on this forum.
Thanks to everyone who has put all ths info on here - I think it'll be very useful to a newbie like me!
BP1, if it wasn't for your other reports I would figure you to be another GIA schill posting a fake report on the board. "People generally smile and are friendly"? Not the Kyiv I know. Did you try to tap your booth girls?
Hecker, the 'standard' Borispil-Kyiv Center rate is 100grv. What's wrong with Kyiv after the weekend? And you are a sex tourist, the girls aren't stupid. ;)
English, glad you are enjoying Kyiv, and yes there are a lot of dating scammers in Kyiv. Watch out for those looking for outrageous money for taxi (the girls and taxis)- 20-50grv will get you anywhere the metro goes. 20grv generally gets you anywhere in the center. During my last trip I had a internet girl call me and ask if I wanted to meet. I said sure, I'm not doing anything right now. Then she asked if I would give her something crazy like 300grv for a taxi. I asked her where she was driving from, Poltava? Once she realized I knew taxi rates she tried to play it off like she was 'testing' me to see if I was 'not greedy' as the local girls like to say. I won't repeat what I said to her in reply on a family friendly forum such as this. $720 is a bit high for a 24hr romp but it sounds like you really enjoyed yourself. There is a lot of crap to wade through on this forum but also a lot of great information. Do a search on Uke Boy and read his posting.
i think it is better to stay in province after the weekend,because there is better pick-up action during the day on the streets,which is less in kiev.on the same time indirect costs fall a lot.
for the weekend kiev is top with many nightclubs,girls not having to work till 19.00 and after being available for dating.
i mean if sb can spend 60$ on apartment every day and just walk on kreshatik during the day waiting till evening to meet girls,then staying in kiev is o.k.but if he wants speed maybe it is better to take a train to a province town.
taxi drivers get into agreement between themselves.if there are 3-4 taxis next to each other they are not concurrents they are friends and will not accept a lower offer from a tourist because they have agreed in advance.in the airport there is competition because there are opponent groups of taxi drivers and negotiation and bringing the one against the other will lower prices.
tourists seldom choose lada old taxis because of their appearance.people who drive them are not so good cheaters as to make money to buy better cars.so one should choose them.they are also reluctant to charge more since they know the client may prefer a better car if they ask the same price.
I have picked up girls in other metros like in Prague and I find Kiev to be considerably more difficult.
Most girls not only refuse to speak but also tend to get away which is a bad sign. I did it for some hours when I was in Kiev and I was dissapointed. In comparison in Prague I managed to get 4 numbers of good looking girls in one afternoon. It is a pity because in metro there is the highest number of beautiful girls. In central metro stations like Kreshatik there can be 100 people getting out of metro everytime it arrives, which statistically means you see 1-2 hot girls every 5 minutes. Circumstances are ideal.
Maybe I will try again when I come back to Kiev since LS suggests it.
Englishman
04-26-07, 00:27
I am very new to Kiev and to this forum but for what it is worth here is my twopenneth.
I am sitting in my apartment having just watched two extremely gorgeous 19yr olds leave. An ex-pat that I met in O'Briens introduced me to the River Palace and I have to say what an incredible place! It is simply full of very young, very attractive girls. I'm sure anyone younger and better looking than me can score for free in there. Unfortunately I'm getting on in years and am as ugly as sin, so it's P2P for me!
I picked up the two girls shortly after arriving and negotiated them down to $400 to come back with me. I still have something to learn as they promised much more than they eventually delivered.
First of all they promised to do the full girl-girl thing, but once we got down to it, they refused. Too late by then as I had already paid. Next time I will have to be more explicit in the negotiations!
Once we arrived at my place the price went up by another 200 hrivna - for taxi fare, you understand! I think they must have been catching a taxi to Poland, but by then it was not my brain doing the thinking, so I paid up.
They also promised two to three hours, but this ended up being an hour with them telling me to hurry up and finish.
All in all, it wasn't as bad an experience as it sounds, because they were extremely attractive and enjoyable, but it wasn't what I expected either.
I guess the lesson is to be clear and forceful in the bargaining stage and make sure everything is clear before taking a girl back.
I have a meeting tomorrow and another on Friday with two different women I contacted from home via one of the many dating sites. If anyone is interested, I'll let you know how that goes!
Phil
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
English, you should have paid $150-$200 for that service with two girls and 50grv for taxi if you wanted to be a nice guy. 99% of the girls in River Palace are 'working' going there to score a freebie is a waste of time.
For what you paid and what you got you did not have to leave England.
Hecker, taxi's are like girls in Kyiv. Wait 5 seconds and another one will be going by. When a taxi driver quotes you a high rate just walk away and flag down another taxi.
It's been my experience that Kyiv is a good place during the week and the other towns are slow and boring except during the weekend. As far as meeting girls on the metro goes - I'm not one for mass transit but I have yet to be any place in Kiev that isn't great for meeting girls.
Me and You
04-26-07, 11:12
Very good report. Can you write more explict about the sex session with the 2 girls.
I am interested to know about the dating sites you used and if they are in english?
Thanks
I have a meeting tomorrow and another on Friday with two different women I contacted from home via one of the many dating sites. If anyone is interested, I'll let you know how that goes!
Phil
Dear All, I am heading to Kiev hoping to have some fun.
I have read some of your reports and thanks indeed for the contributions !
Could someone advice me which place is the best to start ? River Palace, Club112, Arena or Decadence?
Thanks in advance.
Darth Licka
04-28-07, 11:14
Morning all
New on the board (only just found it) but a regular visitor to Kiev for the last year through work. Can't say I've done the P2P thing yet, but most times I've gone there, I've meet some crackers there (with pretty basic russian and ukrainian).
Anyhoo, I got an email from a girl on the merrydating site about two months back, and after swapping email addresses and phone numbers, we've been texting and IM'ing away quite a bit. She's invited me over in a few weeks, and this'll be my first trip not with work. I'm going to hire an apartment and she obviously sounds keen on my coming. To say I've been getting some spicy texts is an understatement!
I guess my question is, am i in danger of being played? The pictures she sent me are all with her workmates and her english (and voice) is great. She has a good job (relatively speaking) so she's not likely to be trying the 'sick grandmother' ploy on me, and she texts me enough that I know she doesn't need a phone.
Anyone else had any similar experiences like this before?
Cheers
(Apologies if this isn't completely on topic. It goes without saying that I will post a full writeup on the what does down, when I return)
Depends what you are looking for.
River Palace = P4P no freebee
Arena and Decadence = Some P4P but mostly for your eyes only ;-)
112 = Some freebee, sometimes P4P but mostly less for the eye.
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