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Hello,
Is it true that Asian-American men will be treated quite badly in the Ukraine (stares, racial slurs, etc) as the Ukrainians are quite racist against Asians and Blacks?
Recently got back from 11 days in a sunny Kiev and had a truly fine time. I can’t really remember a blow by blow account, so just some notes on the trip and some of the places - sorry, but this is likely to be long and rambling! Probably of more use to the novice traveller I'm afraid than giving much new information to the regulars.
Got an apartment with http://www.uaapartments.com. I much prefer apartments to hotels anywhere in the world and will happily sacrifice luxury for adequate comfort. All I can say about uaapartments is that the place I rented was exactly as pictured on their website, centrally located and perfect for my needs; they seemed reliable and good people. A bath tub which could comfortably fit in two people was a pleasant addition.
I thought my Russian had improved sufficiently to actively avoid the traditional P4P venues as a meeting place and was determined to only meet regular girls, which proved quite easy. My only regret is that I was nearly entirely focussed in the centre. In light of my very last memory of Kiev (around 30+ apparently breathtaking girls standing outside a university/college just before the motorway to Borispol) I think I’ll spend more time further away from the centre next time and really test my Russian skills out.
Last time in Kiev I reckon I got quite lucky with the girls I met which meant I got by mainly in English and a little Russian. If I had just focussed on the regular girls with sufficient English this time the trip would have been a bit disappointing, with all the really good girls – genuinely non-pros or those on the fringes of the p4p scene – being predominately Russian speakers. I also took the advice of this board and was significantly more cocky with the girls I met which really paid dividends.
Clubs
Moda Bar
In November everyone seemed to love this place, but all the regular people seemed to be really off it now saying that all the girls there are now pros. Not good for them, but useful for this board! Sorry I can’t give you an idea of prices as I went no-where near it, but based on everything else I would guess the girls all want/expect a minimum of $150 – the pros seemed to have formed a cartel on this and have set the price. I got the impression that Moda was becoming more and more like RP.
River Palace
Just went the once at 4am, when I was wired from a particularly fine night and was still unfeasibly randy (I think I blame honey vodka which seemed to mix surprisingly well with Kamagra, but I really, really wouldn’t recommend it). Went to see if they were showing the NBA finals (they weren’t) and to see if I could get a cheap threesome with whoever was left. Two girls were sitting in the bar downstairs – both around 6s, but seemed ideal. I wasn’t in the mood to be charming, so got straight down to bartering. Offered $150 for the two of them, and they countered with $150 for one of them. Maybe the disco was packed with willing guys, but it seemed unlikely at that time on a Sunday; they seemed to be showing a surprising lack of reality! Admittedly a clearly tanked guy marching in and asking for a threesome without any pre-amble probably didn’t make me the most attractive punter. To put it mildly they seemed a little flummoxed when, having been there for a less than a minute and having made only one offer, I walked straight back out. The two of them came “running”- trotting is more accurate due to stupidly high heels – and offered me $200 for both. One of the girls was fluent in English and was doing the negotiations, but still hadn’t caught on that whilst randy I wasn’t going to pay more than I wanted (and having had a poke less than a hour before was not overly bothered) and she was acting somewhat arsey. I walked off again and her Russian-speaking friend pursued. It turned out she only came to RP once a week and had exams coming up so was not in the mood to go home empty handed as she wouldn’t be back for a couple of weeks. We settled on $50, with a promise of more based on how happy she made me. Performance related pay is definitely the way to go! Whilst not the best looking, she had a good body and a great attitude. She ended up staying until around 4pm the next day and I actually gave her $100 in total (in fairness to me, Detroit’s victory had made me more than this in the first two hours of my time with her, so it seemed somewhat mean to pay less).
I got the impression that the $150 price is something that the real pros will really do all they can to avoid going below as otherwise word gets out that $ is the price they'll all settle on. Whilst "being a gentlemen" is always a nice idea, there is a point where you just need to establish control and set your price with the pros. If the girls think they are in control (e.g. your horniness = more than your ability to say "too much $"), then things will just get out of whack, prices go up and service gets worse.
There definitely seemed to be more foreigners with cash in Kiev this trip, but still no where near enough to give the pros completely the upper hand. I met a couple of business men who were in Kiev on their first trip who just seemed deliriously happy to have an overnight for $400+ and so the market continues to get a little messed up.
Cocktail 111 (Peremohy Place, next to Hotel Lybid)
I love this place! Pretty sure there is lots of P4P action from pros (the tell tell sign of lots of older, out of place foreigners having a quiet drink in a loud club or dancing badly suggested there had to be action). I reckon the proportion of true pros will depend on the night. On a busy night there are lots of good looking girls there who are just out for a laugh with their friends; I’m 99.9% sure that nearly all are approachable and available (excluding those obviously with boyfriends!). Tuesdays are packed making 111 a really good mid-week option and the weekends were stuffed too. Took dates here and had a fine, fine time. Staff are great, liked the atmosphere and would actually go back next time to try out the P4P scene quite happily. To be successful you’ll have to get up and dance. I went here on my first night in Kiev and met students celebrating the end of her exams with a few friends. Definitely not pros; the one I really liked was actually a little uncomfortable with me buying them drinks. Got numbers from a couple of them and ended up spending 3 or 4 days with the girl I wanted later during my stay without spending more than drinks, cabs and meals – does this qualify as P4P or a freebie? Who cares!
Shooters (22 Moskova’ka)
Went here with a date on TravelMen’s recommendation, so many thanks to him. I went one night on the weekend – I think Saturday. Place was packed, good atmosphere, liked the sounds and a mixed crowd – a few obvious pros (I think) and lots of really hot looking girls who were definitely approachable. Was able to pick up a few numbers really easily whilst I was outside having a smoke, although didn’t have time to follow-up this trip. The MC who screams out "PARTYPARTYPARTY" every 15 minutes does need to be smacked. hard.
O’Neills
I know people have mentioned this place as a P4P/meet regular girl place, but I just haven’t seen it in either visit to Kiev. I saw a few guys with girls they had already met, and it’s a good place to go for a drink, but personally I wouldn’t go there to meet girls. One girl I was speaking to in some bar said she and a friend had been barred from O’Neills for going in dressed too much like pros. (in fairness to the owner, they were pros and they did dress like pros!), so this didn’t seem to bode too well as a place for obvious P4P. As I said though it’s a fun place to go.
Strolling
My main area for making contact with regular girls was in stores and the underground shopping “malls” that seem to run underneath all of central Kiev. I don’t like working with a wing man, so for the solo mission this worked really well for me. Not sure why, but all success came at perfumeries (really easy – “I’m buying something for a friend, can you help me choose something nice” kind of thing), sunglass stalls and, for no obvious reason I can see, furniture stalls (especially sofa beds - I really don't know why!). Across my first two days picked up more than enough numbers for the entire trip across a whole range of regular girls, from students out shopping to store assistants – also got knocked back plenty too! I was able to work fairly exclusively in average Russian (with some "charming" mistakes and a bit of English on both sides) and this seemed to work incredibly well the whole trip. I had my best success with first night sex with the girls I met in the shops (really not too difficult to get anyone who would meet for a drink later into bed on the first date). The shop assistants also had the advantage of wanting to be in bed (asleep) at a normal time, opening up the rest of the evening for clubs - splendid!
The one place I wish I had had someone else to work with was on Khreshatyk on a weekend evening – a truly glorious scene on a summer evening! Snowy’s fashion report is that the girls are nearly exclusively wearing ridiculously tight hipsters with a wide variety of killer and impractical footware and big shades (to be worn at all times in and outside). Bodies are hard, butts are tight, tops are short, bras are optional and beer and cigarettes are cheap – it’s fair to say I was a happy man! You need no language skills to appreciate the glorious view. On my return to London the fashion was similar and whilst the hipsters were still tight, the bodies were not so hard (shiver)! Anyway, weekend evenings are packed and the girls are on parade and are hit on continually by groups of local guys. They seem completely used to being approached continually and seem to have little problem with it and little problem with sending the guys packing.
The girls in Kiev are pretty confident and not to be under-estimated – they’re not stupid, not desperate and will not swoon at the first sign of a Westerner with cash - they are also very, very aware that they’re hot! Rewards are to be had, but you still have to work to get success (especially in a short stay).
I did okay on Khreshatyk on one Friday night – got a few numbers and ended up taking a couple of cute students out for some drinks and slept with one of them, but it was hard work on my own. Some of the other numbers I got I decided not to follow up on as I wasn't too sure the rewards were to be had this trip - had a smell of high maintenance and low return. Too many other options to take the risk wasting my time. A lot of the girls are happy to spend the evening talking and drinking outside with their friends and approaching a group of 4-5 girls on your own is not too easy or successful. I think if there is 2 or more of you, the success rate will be far higher. I had a lot more success on my own on weekdays in the early evening, where meeting girls who were going for a quick drink after work seemed relatively easy.
From a restaurant perspective can I add my recommendation to Taras in Shevchenka Park, which was really excellent. I also went to some relatively new place – Hot Mamas, I think, on Tereschenkivs’ka. It’s a USA style diner dedicated to The Rolling Stones, with a range of tacky named dishes. The food was really average, but I went there twice with different groups of girls and they seemed to really like it and it’s just down the road from one of the Universities where some of the girls went.
For those who have PMd me about translatorkiev, can I just reiterate that, to the best of my knowledge, this is not a p4p site.
Hope some of this helps someone – I really can’t recommend enough learning a bit of Russian before you go. Saves a fortune on taxis and opens up so many other opportunities with different girls. Regardless, if you haven’t been to Kiev…go. Great girls, cheap nightlife, much fun.
John Quakman
06-23-04, 03:35
I have a trip to Kiev planned on Aug 10-13 and am searching for a female, english speaking guide. Zergut seems to have had a good service from VIPGATEWAY.com but they have not responded to my emails. I am wondering if anyone knows of a similar service. I want to spend the entire time mongering and sightseeing. PM or post if you have some insight.
Bez Bezarra
06-23-04, 12:17
Snowy's report has all the pick up places.
Ask hotel bellboy,security guard, taxi drivers, etc.
Sightseeing is just walking around the center.
Everything you can do to help their economy is your simple way of giving back
to an important community.
I get so upset and am so dissappointed with my government when I think and consider for how many years, maybe 30, we had warheads aimed at a city so full
of sweet honey, its amazing that we can go there and its meaningless to them.
But with that in mind, we owe it to them to make up for such misdirected irresponsible ill will in every way we can, and to every extent. Fill up your suitcase full of stuff, cosmetics, perfume, t-shirts, hair care stuff, and anything else you can think of, and give till it hurts.
Think you'd find anything as genuine as 5 hours with this five-some ?
Ridin' that Glory Train!
Yeah, beer and cigarettes are cheap, but caviar's still $50 jar.
Roger Mellie
06-25-04, 05:42
JQ - see post by NeilSydney lower down and responses
Rabo Verde
06-27-04, 19:21
Quick question for those who have been both places.
If you could go to Kiev OR Moscow for 10 days, but not both, which one?
Quick answer
You would surely go to Kiev and never ask such questions again when you would be going there again as quickly as possible.
Chuponalgas,
To answer the quick question not so succinctly, this is one answer that I can agree with Vegamars about.
It is definitely Kiev.
It is much easier to meet any lady (non-pros) at almost any bar, club, or restaurant, not to mention a better chance of meeting them just on the street at any time of day. I find that Moscow women have a harder, tougher edge to them, they seem more like New York women.
And if you want a pro or semi-pro, the quality is just as high as it is in Moscow but the prices are far lower.
Best of all, unless you are Black or Asian, the militsia never hassle you for anything unlike Moscow where it could be at any time of day or night for no reason at all.
Kiev is a much nicer place than Moscow and its best seasons are summer and fall.
Rastaman,
Most anyone who does not look like he is a local will get the occasional hassle from the local cops.
I have been there seven years and never been stopped once. I also worked in an area near dorms for African and Asian students. That means if you are Black or Asian, the militsia will, if they are in a mood, either because they want some "income" because your papers are "not all in order" or just plain want to bust your nuts, they will stop you first for a document check. And I am sorry to say that if it a choice for them between a Black or an Asian, it will be the Black who will be stopped.
I have seen it too many times, in Moscow, in Kiev and a few other cities. It is a fact of life here, racism does exist with the officers who work in these so-called "organs of public order."
True story: I was waiting at a bus stop in Moscow along with 4 others who were White but obviously from the Caucasuses, they may have been Chechens or Azeris or Dagestanis, doesn't matter. They were not ethnic Slavs. The militsia stopped, 4 cops pulled out Kalashnikovs and roughly hassled these four guys for their papers. I am a basic vanilla White guy and they did not even glance at me or even ask me any questions. It was very tense for all and I was glad the bus pulled up and I got out of there fast. I was the only one to board the bus at that stop, by the way.
That being said, the situation in Kiev is much, much better and it is a better city in this respect than Moscow but the potential for these problems does exist if you are non-white.
If you have your passport and the "immigration" document with you, then you should have, generally speaking, no problems after that. I am sure the regular visitors and contributors to this forum have at one point or another seen or even been stopped for this "document check." The problem is that if you, and that means anyone, Black, White, Green or otherwise, displays an "attitude," the militsia will make sure you get a costly and very unpleasant lesson in local law enforcement.
One other thing. Ladies, Black, White, Asian, or otherwise, never get stopped.
On the subject of being stopped by police in Kiev - I go there often and was only stopped once. It was 4 in the morning and I was walking just off the main street and looked like I had a few drinks on board (I had). Got the old "problem with papers" routine but in a very jovial friendly way. Gave them 50 grivnas ($10) and we sat and joked and had a cigarette together. It was just a part of the game/system and in no way intimidating or frightening. I would see the two policemen occasionally in the street after that and always got a smile and a wave. It is most unlike Moscow in that respect.
On the plus side, I was walking around central Kiev at 4 in the morning, with a few drinks and not a care in the world. Never felt unsafe there for a minute. Its a beautiful city and the people are as good as it gets - way ahead of Moscow in my opinion.
On my many visits to Ukraine and Russia,I've never been stopped by the police.
It all depends on you,no matter what the time is.If you feel confident enough nothing's gonna happen.
I feel so sure that I can go around without any documents.
If you ever succeed to be stopped by the police especially in Ukraine,it's definitely your own fault.
If you have the slightest doubt,you can stay happily in the States and try to walk at night,say in L.A and see what's gonna happen.
Member #2001
06-30-04, 00:07
I have been to kiev many times and even lived there one or twice so I can say something about the situation with the police there. They will stop you if you are black, asian or even if you dont look russian/ukrainian. I am half colombianian and I would get stoped about once a week there and, yes it was during the day time. They also are predjuce against people from the caucases and from the stans (central asia). As a matter of fact I heard from the american embassy there in kiev that they have stopped the american ambassator several times untill they goverment there got wise and stopped doing this to him. He was black and even with diplomatic plates he would get stoped.
I know of another instance where the Nigerians there would get beat or the cops would even plant drugs on them to arrest them on false charges. It was published in the Kiev Post some years back. The only reason why Nigerians are/were in the country is to further there education. These were people that wanted to get a docterate or a higher education because it was cheaper for them here at the time. The NIgerians there are very educated there and have no motive to start trouble or sell drugs like the police would have you think. Back in the days of the Soviet Union raceism was illegal and you could get thrown in jail for it, but now aparently its ok, accepeted and legal. Its like driving while black here in the states.
If anyone follows this board then they would know that there enough posts here to raise some questions about the police in Ukraine, so they should be somewhat leary of the LE here even if they are doing nothing wrong.
Not all Ukrainians are prejudice, but I would say about 20% or less. Mostly the uneducated like the police there. The police have no formal education. They only have to be trained to be a policeman. Also there still is that old way of thinking leftover from the cold war and it still exists today. Alot of the higher ups in the Police force were trained in this era. I like ukraine though and some of my best freinds are there in kiev so its not all bad. You just have to take the good with the bad.
As far as mongering. I think its crazy to get girls for 50 dollars in Kiev where you can get it in alot of places in ukraine outside of the city if you look for it. 100 grevna or 20 dollars is normal in the summer and i have gotten sex from pros for as little as 6 dollars, but I will not say where in the country because when americans come around the prices tend to increase. I have also heard of places where you can get sex for as little as a dollar in the country but again I will not tell you where. I also heard that these girls for a dollar were a bit skanky though.
My advice is to beware of the police if you are ethenic and be sure that your papers are in order. It is Ileagal to not have your passport on your person at all times in Ukraine according to the american embassy there, For mongering, other places outside of kiev which are cheaper.
Actually, as a person of ethnic Indian origin, I don't give a shit about the militia, yeah its a hassle, but what I really want to know is how likely am I get to get my head kicked in by brain-dead skinheads in Ukraine? Don't want to be unrolling my city map to figure out where the dyev's apartment is when 3 or 4 dubious characters materialise out of the darkness.
Swiss Tiger
06-30-04, 07:39
Art
Dude, I would simply say that you should take precautions "as you would in any other large city".... London, NY, Moscow etc!
In my humble experience Map reading is best done in a taxi!
Large maps blowing in the wind, and dollar bills hanging out of your pocket, and fat credit card filled wallets in back pockets, coupled with a hefty dose of beer in your gut and a feverish hard on in anticipation of some action tends to attract the worst kind whether you are white black asian or as one of our colleagues suggested "green" ...in any city!
Enjoy you visit
ST.
Rabo Verde
06-30-04, 08:10
Thanks for the tips. Guess I will try Kiev later this year.
Member #2001
06-30-04, 09:16
I heard that one year the skin-heads were out on the main drag after a soccer game. I guess it was like a impromtu protest of somekind. Well the Berkut (they are somethingn like swat) came by and with no warning, no cease and desperse no nothing they just came out beat on these guys and that was that. I heard about it from several people there one year when I was there. Anyway I think you will have no problem if will be there with someone, stay in the center, and stay off the public transportation (pick pockets), I have never had any problems when I was there with crime or being worried about getting robbed. You just have to be smart about your surroundings.
Swiss Tiger
You are of course right! Might as well wear a T-shirt saying "mug me"! :-)
Rabo Verde
07-01-04, 01:14
Just curious... Seems to be quite a disparity between the wages and the price of P2P. Isn't $100 about 2 weeks normal salary for a secretary or waitress? Funny how the ratio between minimum wage and P2P varies so wildly from country to country! You would think, for example, that the girls would generally be happy to receive, say, 2 days wages for 2 hours, as is the case in Thailand, Brazil, Argentina.
Come on you guys,you're exagerating the situation.
Unlike Moldova,Belarus,Russia,etc Ukraine has a very mixed culture and there's no tpical characteristic of an Ukrainian guy.
I've seen many times Ukrainian girls approaching me and speaking directly in Russian,thinking that I'm Ukrainian.
If you feel uncomfortable and distressed even in Ukraine,definitely Russia is not the place for you to visit.
Whether you're Asian,hispanic,black or white will not give you any advantage or disadvantage on any matter.
Average wages are $100 in Kiev and $40-50 in other cities and suburbs,but as you can imagine Kiev is much more expensive with a rapidly growing population of 6million nowadays.
I know from my girlfriends in Lvov,Harkov,Dniepropetrovsk and Lugansk that it's quite possible to get along with $50 per month since the average rents are $25-30.
On the contrary,the min rents in Kiev are $100 and as high as $500 in the very center,so especially the high quality girls with a high standard of living require a min of $1000 per month.
Doctor_Skank
07-01-04, 12:14
Chuponalgas:
$100 is the rate at places where the clientel can easily afford $100. Russians have this disturbing habit of paying more than they have to and I don't think expats are entirely to blame for the rising pro prices, especially since the majority of the clientel is Russian actually. Not at places like RP or NF where you will be hard-pressed to find any Russians, but in the market as a whole. On several occassions Russians have told me that paying more than you have to is a sign of power and status... no wonder luxury restaurants and $500 pros thrive in Moscow... and will soon invade Kiev.
You can have $30 pros in Kiev too, but the quality of goods is questionable at best.... at least in my experience. A little shopping (if that is worth your time) will certainly yield better results than my little streetwalker safari, detailed below...
During my recent stay in Kiev after sending my girl home in a taxi to her mom and dad (was interesting to observe her bargain down to 7 UAH for a stretch that I would have paid 20 UAH for... Kiev taxi drivers are even more resilient than Moscow ones in trying to squeeze out an extra buck) I decided to go to River Palace. Should have went to 111 in retrospect, but I was curious about RP. In the taxi, my crackhead driver Slava kept asking me if I wanted a girl. Not really needing one at all, but just curious, I said OK, as long as he drove me to RP later, I would look at his "girl" and decide if I wanted her. So Slava zooms off in his Lada. He was an awful driver and I swear he was on something, or just really stupid. He wasn't drunk, otherwise I wouldn't have driven with him. It was adventurous enough as it was with Slava without the unnecessary vodka kick and the thrill of the ensuing crash and a subsequent tour of the Ukraine's world renowned health care system.
"Give heem green infusion!"
"Vee are out of green infusion!"
"OK, give heem blue infusion!"
So Slava zoomed over the bridge and we ended up on Brovarsky Prospekt, somewhere near Bratislava Hotel if I remember correctly. Boondocks in any case. On a somewhat desolate road he stopped and made a call for the girl. I observed the situation closely, not afraid but also not keen on getting knocked over the head by some thugs. I still knew approx where I was and had my wits aboout me.... I was just keenly observant and really enjoying the comic situation unfolding in front of me. Besides, it was a nice night and my thoughts were still charged with positive energy stemming from the pretty 20-year old (?) I'd just had an hour ago.
About a minute later a thin blonde girl in tight jeans and a tight blouse approached the taxi, silhouetted by the streetlights. It would have been a beautifully surreal film had I had a video camera... Slava turned on his car lights so I could get a look at the girl and he was getting really excited, commenting on what a babe she was, how sexy she was and how great her performance was and telling me I could have her for 60 UAH ($12) in the car or 120 UAH ($24) in my apartment. Maybe it was his cousin. Admittedly she didn't look bad until she came close enough for me to really see her face. It wasn't Julia Roberts in "Pretty Woman", but rather Inna Volvova in "Skank Ho". Nice and sleazy. Silently I rejoiced. This is the shit I really like. An authentic skank. There was no way in hell I was going to fuck her, but like visiting the monkey cage at the zoo, it was fun for the whole family. She even smiled for me, displaying some of the world's worst teeth... so bad I wondered if they were so screwed up because of lack of dental hygiene or if she was showing the signs of "junkie teeth". She was skinny enough. After about a minute of bargaining the joy of my safari was wearing off and I began to feel sorry for her so I sent her away and told Slava to drive me to RP. While on the way to RP we drove by a couple of other street walkers and I saw one I even liked, but as we pulled to the side she got scared and scurried off into the bushes, nearly falling down as she crashed through the greenery like a wild elephant, her cheap acid-washed skirt barely concealed her ass, which was nicely silhouetted in the moonlight... I was feeling romantic and everything was silhouetting all over the place. Nonetheless, I don't recall ever having that kind of effect on a woman before.
After a brief stop at Sport Hotel, where Slava promised me a selection of girls to look at but instead only brought a newspaper presented to me like a menu but only containing phone numbers and bait and switch pictures from various agencies (which Slava obviously really thought were the real pictures of the girls), we went to RP, where I wanted to comtinue my safari. Having arrived, at that point Slava wanted 100 UAH ($20) for his services, but I gave him 40 ($8) for driving me around for 45 minutes on my safari. It wasn't my idea to drive all over Kiev looking for cheap pros, I wanted to go to RP and check out the eye candy. He wasn't happy and warned me again that the RP girls were overpriced and would slip sleeping pills into my drink and throw me into the Dnipro, but I went in anyway... well aware of the horrible danger that was facing me... :)
So if you would rather pay 1 months secretarial wages than two, look no further than Slava's skank taxi express. He'll set you up. :)
Rabo Verde
07-01-04, 17:07
LOL what a great story. Sometimes the funnest thing about these trips is when everything goes wrong, and you feel like you have wandered into the Twilight Zone. My favorite memory is a $4 girl in Guatemala in a fleabag motel in the jungle with lizards all over the wall and monkeys outside the windows and a born-again preacher in the church next door screaming that we are all going to hell.
Kiev sounds fun, and I will definitely go there for some variety, but sheesh, I have been to Brazil and Argentina more than 10x each, and let me tell you, from your description of Kiev, you guys should try those places too if you can. There are many places in Rio or BA where you can walk in and choose from 50-plus 7-10's including some Victoria Secret types, many blondes, many GFE, all competing for your attn., for $30-90. I would have thought that, based on economics, Kiev would be the same, but sounds like less choice and more $$$. Guess the Ukies haven't quite figured out free market capitalism yet!!!!
Based on my knowledge and the pictures posted on this board,there's no point of comparison between South America and Kiev.
As for the prices,Kiev is still the cheapest place in Europe for mongering purposes after Northern Cyprus and Belarus.
And who said there's a limited choice?6 million population of which 60% are women and 90% of those are potential chicks!!
Chuponalgas
I am not sure what you base this P2P $100 on but I am assuming this is based on the Gia rates. Very few locals use Gia or any of the other agencies advertising to foreigners. If you don't speak Ukrainian and/or Russian (here we go again!) you will just have to settle for these rates. Call it an extra service fee from the agency. It has nothing to do with local earning power but with how much the agencies can get from you for an hour or two.
The agencies here, as I have said before, have two price lists. One is for locals, the other is for foreigners who they know will pay the much higher rates.
Locally, if you can blend in, the prices are much lower. An hour is usually $40 or $50, and 2 hours for a one time visit or a first-time visit is $70. I saw one pro on an occasional basis and after two or three visits, it was $50 for two hours, CIM and anal with no extra charge. An overnight is $150 and that is about 12 hours. She also has a very nice studio flat that she rents for her work in the center and that costs her $250. These are all Kiev prices but will be much lower in other areas outside the major cities.
I am also not sure that anyone can say the average wage in Kiev is $100. It may have been true a few years ago but not now. I would say average wages are now higher than that, perhaps in the $200-$300 range for most of the non-governmental working class. Teachers, doctors, nurses and other government related service employees are at that $100 average. And then there are the higher level bureaucrats who earn as much as they can get. Therefore the cost of P2P will also be higher!
Kiev's actual population is just under three million.
Member #2001
I am not sure who at the embassy told you about the police stopping a "Black" American ambassador. First, there has not been a Black American ambassador here. The closest was the most recent who was Hispanic. Trust me, diplomatic plates here are very clear as to what country owns the car and more importantly, whose car it is. Also, in keeping with security concerns, he travels with additional cars as body guards. Any traffic officer in Kiev who stops the US ambassador, black or white, had better be prepared to work in some distant province the next day.
It also does not make sense from another point of view. The traffic cops are the most corrupt of all the police here. They make money by constantly stopping cars and "inspecting their papers." It is almost always a "shakedown" and it is always better and more profitable to stop a normal car than a diplomatic car and risking losing your job.
Beat cops are also corrupt and the easiest targets are obvious foreigners but most of the time, 50 Grivna will be get you away.
Doctor_Skank
07-02-04, 08:25
Uke Boy:
Thanks for your insight/perspective on the $100 standard (I based this on RP/easy access expat options). How do the $50-60 girls compare to RP quality wise? Favorably or even better? I know it is a general question and subjective, but since we invariably have to do some generalizing, what is your opinion?
Chuponalgas:
I would love to get to SA but don't have the time... maybe in the winter (their summer). The quality of pros in SA is fantastic and the $/€ exchange rates to their respective local currencies is equally fantastic. But for now I am stuck with EE.
Uke Boy and several other posters know Ukraine far better than I, but $100 for an overnight, whether in Moscow or Kiev, is still a fantastic price. I personally prefer overnight as I like to celebrate the event and try out many things and obtain video, but often even an overnight really boils down to only 2-3 hours of actual activity... so arranging a $50-60 2-3 hour session is quite sensible.
In any case you'll have a lot of fun and I am looking forward to your after action report.
The agency Gia asks for $80-$90 for 2-3 hrs,but you can easily negotiate to lower it down to $50-60.What's more,you can persuade the girls to stay for the night for the same charge if she likes you.
It's also quite possible to find pros and semi-pros in River Palace for $50 for 2-3 hrs or even non-pros for free,though it takes some patience and consideration.
Doctor_Skank
07-02-04, 09:24
Vegamars,
Just out of curiousity, do you have any particular technique you use in persuading girls to go for free?
And about negotiating a lower price, what works there? Sheer resilience? Or some other factor?
Obviously if she likes you you'll get "benefits"... is there any particular things that works for you to develop thís affection, or is it just standard male-female interaction skills?
In other words, do you scheme or have a battle plan or is it just a matter (as you have often stated before) simply a matter of going with the flow? A technique which I personally endorse as well, but while still maintaining certain strategic elements in my efforts.
The only tecnique I use with success is to treat any girl as if you know her for a long time and to show that you care for her with some sort of feelings.
It works most of the time and after I meet a pro or semi-pro for first time I can easily manage to see her again and again for free.
Dr Skank,
How the $40/$50 ladies compare to the RP and higher priced pros such as Gia? Subjective, yes, but the only answer is "no difference," except for price.
I have been fortunate and that all the ladies I have met in the price range have been from 8's to 10's, for looks, services and attitude. I have paid the higher rates for ladies from the online agencies who have interested me but to say they were ultimately worth twice the money would not be the case here.
My occasional pro here is an independent, 27 years old, a "9.6" in looks, with C/D breasts, a hard body, she works out in the gym regularly, and just loves sex in any way and any position. That's $50 for 2 hours so why would I want to overpay? I should also add that I do "tip" her regularly when I do see her, sometimes cash (an extra $20), sometimes flowers if it is near a major holiday such a International Women's Day, or sometimes a nice bottle of wine. Such gestures here are important in maintaining a good relationship and it does not cost all that much more but you get so much more in return.
It will be a very dark day when she leaves the business.
The main thing is that you have to develop a regular relationship. The price goes way down and the variety of services increases as they get comfortable with you, and that includes video. But it is never "free" since for them it is a business.
If you want to sample new ladies each and every time, you will always be paying whatever is the "introductory" rate. If you keep coming back for more, either with the same lady or even with the same agency, discounts always apply if you ask for them, as well as better services.
I must disagree with Vegamars, and that is no surprise.
The last I looked, Gia certainly doesn't charge $80-$90 for 3 hours but $130 for that time. They generally keep to their price lists and there is no way that 2-3 hours for a Gia lady will be $50. If the girl stays for the night for the same price without informing the agency, then she has to be very stupid or naïve. These ladies are pros and they work for an agency that does keep them in line, and the same can be said of any lady with any agency. They also know what pros and semi-pros make and I suspect that agency girls sometimes work River Palace and other clubs on their own so they know what the going prices are.
Just one other thing also needs to be mentioned. I have asked these ladies and agencies here take anywhere from 60% to 75% of the fee, the balance for the lady. I doubt any agency lady or independent here would spend 3 hours or even overnight with anyone for a take home of $20 or less.
I am not sure why you want to spread this kind of nonsense and raise expectations for other forum readers who want to come here, expectations that will never be met.
I would also like to meet with these pros or even semi-pros that you meet who roll over and charge you nothing for having sex with them. Hookers with hearts of gold! I guess the next step is that these pros and semi-pros will pay you to have sex with them!
I've never had any aim of raising expectations,everything is out of experience and as I've said before,you've gotto find your own unique way for Ukraine cause trying to follow up others in the exact way will never get you anywhere.
As for agencies and independents,you can only lower the prices only if you can negotiate in the right way.
When I said that the girls could be free afterwards,of course I meant that they would be free for sex and that they would expect little presents,going out for dinner,disco,etc for complete GFE.
It's quite possible to create your individuals out of even top agencies.
Rabo Verde
07-02-04, 20:33
FROM MY BASE, IT costs about the same in money and not much difference in time to go to EE or South America. Thanks for all the comments! I try to be charming and many past chicas like me, but we all have our preferences and I personally prefer to meet a new playmate each time. Commenting philosophically, it still seems to me that if a girl could earn the same in two hours as say, two days as a secretary, you would think there would be thousands of them clamoring for a shot! This is generally the case in SA and Thailand, where the price is much more in line with some reasonable multiple of the minimum wage. LOL I remember some of my friends who went to Moscow and Kiev in the 70's who took an extra suitcase full of panty hose and makeup, and could trade a quickie for a bottle of nail polish!!!! But who understands women, anyway????
Yeah,I heard stories from 50's and 60's that you could do much more with just a chewing gum in Moscow cause you would be like the first man landing on Mars!!
Doctor_Skank
07-02-04, 21:36
Uke Boy,
Thanks for the insight. Will use it to my advantage as best I can.
Goldfinger
07-02-04, 21:47
I will be in Kiev for 7 days from wednesday if I am deemed suitable for a visa. PM me if you are around. This could be a tricky trip for a non-Russian speaker so may have some questions.
Member #2001
07-02-04, 22:05
According to lonelyplanet.com the GDP for Brazil is 4060$ and the GDP for Ukraine is 4500$. In the cia factbook (online version) the GDP for Brazil is 7600$ and the GDP for Ukraine is 5300$. Now given that people outside of Kiev earn alot less then the people that live in Kiev, I would say that the average person in kiev earns about 500$ per month and the average wage outside of Kiev is about 200$ per month. In my previous experance that sounds about right. While I have never been to Brazil I can only estamate that the two economies are the about same and so the price of the girls should also be about the same. However I know I can get girls alot cheaper then the 100$ or 50$ in Kiev. I am not sure about what the prices are outside of the capital of Brazil. Sounds like that girl got a bargin. You can get a bargin on rent there, but it takes time and you have to be willing to rent for 6 months or more. The longer you rent, the cheaper the rent becomes.
Having said that I think that the prices of apartments in the center of town are about 350$- 400$ minimum for a one room apartment and as much as you want to spent for something more luxurious. Just do a search for apartments rentals in Kiev and you can see how much you can spend in Kiev.
As for me those prices are really bazzar from what I remember of Kiev. I remember people selling thier 2 room flats for 10 or 15 thousand dollars in the Podol and Perchersk areas. Its like renting an apartmtent in any downtown city in America.
I once heard of an American that sold his Levi's blue jeans on the street for 100$ back in the day. I think my freind told me that it was about 1990. That was when the price of Levi's were about 15 or 20 dollars. He apparently had to go back to where he was staying in his underware and get another pair of pants to wear.
Finnaly, to the gentlelman that wanted to know who told me the American embassator was harrased in Kiev? Well it was the embassy staff when I went there to file a complaint when the cops harassed, me and I was getting tired of it. I think they would be credible source.
Could anybody tell me where I can find girls other than in River Palace or Bar 111? Does anybody know some websites of recommended agecies?
Please help!
Member #2001
All these statistics are great but they only tell part of the story. In Ukraine, you have the official economy and then you have the gray market economy. For example, many businesses officially pay their employees on the books 100 or 200 Grivna, $20 or $40, approximately. Why? Because this is the amount the employer then pays very high social security and medical benefits on to the government. The employee then gets a cash salary from the employer of $100, $200, $300 or more, with no further deductions. These monies are never reported to the government and never show up in any statistics. While the government tries to force businesses to use cash registers in order for the tax people to be able to follow a paper trail, many transactions are cash with no register receipt. This also makes statistical information about Ukraine notoriously wrong or just plain "educated guesses."
Also, here in Kiev there has been a real estate boom over the last 2-3 years. Prices have soared. One bedrooms in Pechersk, unrenovated, are now going for $50,000 or more. More importantly, there is no mortgage system here and people are paying these amounts and more with full cash payment! So how does someone who makes 5K per year be able to afford a 50K flat and pay all cash?
If you are here to see what is happening as I am that is one thing. If you are going to use statistics, then they will lie to you each and every time, or at the very least, anyone can use the statistics to make their own case, even if it is directly opposite of yours.
While Ukraine's economy may be one that is statistically that of a third world nation, the people still see themselves as former superpower citizens as well as cultured and sophisticated Europeans, and that includes the working ladies. Now we are looking at how people value themselves.
For all these reasons and more you cannot compare the prices of Brazilian ladies with that of Ukraine.
This place is far, far different from what it was in 1990.
Finally, the most useless place for help or information for any American, in Kiev or any other country of the world, is the embassy. They are, in fact, the least credible of all sources.
A few interesting remarks:
There's the 5-10% upper top class of Ukraine especially in Kiev,Dniepropetrovsk and Harkov which is surprisingly and unbelievably rich compared to the rich class in Europe.
What's more the real treasure of the country lies abroad,which has flown away to mainly Australia during the last 15 years as it's a country that's even more suitable than Switzerland for regulations of tax exemptions and huge bank accounts.
There's no real good reliable banks in Ukraine at the moment and all the international money transfers are carried out off the record via illegal change offices.
Hi Guys,
I will be in Lugansk from the 8th for a week. Would like to meet any fellow brother for a drink or two.
VoodoDick
Member #2001
07-04-04, 00:45
Uke Boy,
I think your are absolutly right on most of your points, but that figure is only an estaimate and in the small villages of which there are many of and alot of them are not even on any ukrainian map are empoverished. I know many people in Kiev for many many years and most of them dont own the 5,000 per year that is on those websites. However there are some people that are very very wealthy.
Who buys these apartments and new homes that are outside the city on the way to the airport? The very very rich that have had political contacts before the fall of the Soviet Unioin and wealthy busnessmen, Polititicans, foriegn companies that want to put up thier employees in western style accomodations, and mafiaosa. People like Ukertelecom and Texas Instruments, and some of the executives of the telecominications companies there. People that own the downtown shops are also called "the new russians".
These people are very wealthy since the tax code is only 20 percent for any business its not difficult to see why they are so rich in Kiev. The have a special police in Ukraine that is in charge of making sure that shop owners and bussiness men pay thier full share. It was instutituted to illimanate graft and bribery which is an old costom in the soviet union. That is not to say that there could be a duel form of payment for employees. These are the people that inflate the cost of housing in Kiev. The gap of the haves and have nots is extreame in Ukraine with most of the nations wealthey elete centered inKiev.
While prices for real estate have risen all over In Ukraine and all over the fomer Soviet Union, but it has not risen so much as it has in Kiev. and some other cities in Russia.
Ofcourse you are more then welcome to spend 100 dollars on a escort in Kiev, but for me its is certianly not worth it when you could find pussy, where there is more variety in other parts of the country for alot cheaper.
As far as the American Embassy, I see no reason for them to lie about what they told me. I know this type of behavior exists from my personal experances and from first hand knoledge of other people I have talked to in regaurds to police harresment on the streets.
While I am not in Ukranie at the present time, I am in constant contact with friends that I have there. I base these observations on my personal travels to Ukraine, frends that I have met, and the online version of the Kiev Post (online version), even thought the information from the Kiev Post is some what limited.
Member #2001
Apartment prices and income levels give you an idea of the overall economy but nothing beats what locals pay since this would be the true market value. That price is, as I said earlier, $40 to $50 for the first hour. Two hours is $60 to $70. These are one-time visit rates and prices are much lower if you become a regular. Anything higher is a premium you pay for the privilege of being a "rich" foreigner.
Take this same local lady and put her in London (and many are there!) and she will cost you 150 Pounds for an hour, or about $270! Paying $70 to Gia for the first hour seems a bargain by comparison.
Unfortunately, police harassment exists, especially if you do not look like a local. Complaining to the embassy may make you feel better but is useless in terms of results. They do not have the power to change anything since the USA has not yet invaded Ukraine, they only listen to you and say some words of possible sympathy. I am also not so sure you would get any true sympathy since most of the staff of the American Citizens Unit at the embassy is staffed by local Ukrainians! Maybe Ukraine has invaded the USA!
Let me tell you what is all about the embassies in Ukraine!
If you're an Ukrainian citizen and apply for a Schengen,British or American visa and even if all your documents are in order, the most you can do is to get a touristic visa for a max period of ten days after waiting for 1-2 months and most of the time you'll have to wait for all your life!
This is a deliberate policy cause visas are on sale!
Just get ready to give $1000 for the Schengen visa,$1500 for the British visa and $2500 for the American visa and you'll have any type of visa of a period of at least 6 months ready at your hand in just 1day!!
How can anyone expect any kind of sympathy against these embassies(enemies??) while on the other hand no kind of trouble is involved with embassies like Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Switzerland, Lihuania, Latvia, Estonia, China, Korea,etc?
Hi Vengamars!
I have a question about visas. Is it possible for a Ukrainian girl to reach Prague with only the international passport? And, what about Switzerland?
Can you tell me a good web site on visa policy for Europeans going to Eastern European Country and/or Eastern Europeans coming to EU?
I would like to propose Jackson a forum where people can discuss visa's problems and strategies all around the world.
Thanks for your help,
Rocky V
Vegamars,
You are entertaining but I am not sure why you keep wanting to give out more misinformation.
Most so-called middle class Ukrainians who qualify can get a Schengen or UK visa with nothing more than a wait in the queues. The wait can be long and spread over several days but most who apply are successful. You are correct that it amounts to a tourist visa for the stated length of the visit. However it does not take 1-2 months but is a matter of a few weeks for those who are applying for the first time or even days or even that day if someone has had visa before and returned to Ukraine on time, and has never illegally overstayed a visa. It really all depends on the consulate and their rules. They are all different despite the fact that it is one "visa."
According to recent official Ukraine government statistics there are about 6 million Ukrainians working and living abroad mostly illegally) who return several billion dollars of their earnings to relatives back home.
If there is a "visa sale," many more people would be ready to hand in their money for this opportunity! These are relatively low prices for documents that I assume are handed out the "back door." There have been isolated cases of such consulate employee corruption. Do you know something we do not?
If you are referring to private companies that claim they can get such visas for a fee, these are also scams. You will not be issued a visa in 99.9% of any situation unless you qualify.
Of course there is no kind of trouble with Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, China since they were former Soviet bloc countries or allies and are still major trading partners, with some being crucial border neighbors. Visa issuance here is just a formality but for now this is not a Schengen visa.
Rocky V
Ukrainians of all types now need visas along with their international passport to get to all the countries of the European Union, along with most other countries of the world. That also includes Switzerland, China, Korea, etc. There are a few countries where visas are issued on the spot such as Egypt and Turkey.
Each country's foreign ministry and the consular websites tell you who needs a visa. These are the people who set the rules and these are the people you should try first and also believe. They are the ones who say yes or no and their decison is final.
It is very simple. Anyone from the former USSR needs a visa to get into all EU counties. No exceptions. EU citizens going to the former USSR also need visas and that includes Ukraine and Russia. Also no exceptions.
Rabo Verde
07-07-04, 04:51
Just for comparison, you guys might want to take a look at
www.ciaplus.com
(Funny name, huh?) This is a very reliable agency in my usual stomping grounds, Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, the photos are real, GAROTA means girl, the exchange rate is about 3R=$1, so 100R for 2 hours in your hotel = $33, COMPLETA means anything goes (anal, etc.) There are many cheaper options but this is one of the top level agencies. Most of the CIA girls are college students earning tuition money, mostly model quality.
For a similar look at what goes on in Buenos Aires, my other stomping ground, check out
www.platynum.com.ar
Average price for 2 hours in your hotel room in BA for a top-end model quality chica is about 150 Pesos = $50.
I gather I am not going to find anything comparable in Kiev?
I am coming anyway, just kinda baffled why, with similar economics, no similar availablility or pricing. There is not much religious influence or legal obstaclein the Ukraine, is there? LOL, all comments re underground economy apply equally to Brazil and Argentina, tax evasion is also a national pastime in South America. Anyway, aside from loving the hobby, I am fascinated by the social and economic aspects.
Member #2001
07-07-04, 05:43
Chuponalgas,
You will see when you get there and I will say that if your links to those sites are any indication then I have to believe that the quality and the price is more reasonable where you monger in SA.
I someday would like to go down there, but I am not into the escort thing. Once in a while its ok, but I enjoy the hunt and the edge that looking for sw's provides me. How much are the sw's where you are at in in SA?
I have not met too many sw's in Kiev though. I heard of a club somewhere outside of the center wehre it was like a brothel, but I dont think they are open anylonger. However if you go outside of Kiev you can find cheaper prices of escorts and sw's. Its been my experance that when calling a escort service that its hit or miss also. Alot of them do not have pictures of the girls that they provide. then only say do you want blond or brunette and tall or short etc. I had one experance with a girl what was a college student and she was really bad sexually. She was also not too attractive for me because she had a little bit of fat on her stomach. You might have better luck though. I would be interested to know what your impressions are of Ukraine.
What is a schengen visa? I have never heard of it. Is it something new from the goverment? I would be interested to know.
Yeah, I love to entertain, but that has nothing to do with the facts.
An average Ukrainian requires some sort of connection to the embassies even for getting a short-term touristic visa for Schengen countries, British visa and American visa. Otherwise, there would be no chance of getting it for lifetime.
Isn't it weird that most Ukrainians can get a long-term Swiss visa in just a week, not to mention how easy it is for Polish, Hungarian, Slovak and Czech visas.
All my knowledge is derived from simply experiences and research through girls and actual life in Ukraine beyond the visible screen.
In Ukraine, there's a common expression as '' anything is possible as there's always a backdoor '' whether it's for business or sex.
As for visas, I've had my own concrete experiences where we had to wait for a couple of months for nothing on several occasions and then did it in the other way in just half a day.
There's really no kind of comparison between SA and Ukraine, whether it's for the culture, economic situation, quality of girls.
Why the girls wouldn't agree on very unbelievably low prices simply lies on the fact that they belong to one of the most educated and intelligent countries in the world.
There are about 50 universities only in Kiev and most girls attend higher education of a min of 5 years, which makes real effect to the mental quality of the girls in addition to the physical properties. That's why, unlike the common misbelief, it's not so easy to persuade them to obey for little sums, when they're pretty sure that they could get much more.
Though SA is a heaven compared to the States, the quality of agencies mentioned on the board is not so high as the ones in Ukraine. Even the cheapest one in Kiev, namely gia.com.ua, enables some girls with a much higher quality and full service including anal for about $50-60 for 1-2 hrs ( This price is an exception for some who are capable, whereas the regular price is as high as $90-100 for those who accept anything at once!!---
don't forget that agencies are also owned by intelligent women as most businesses in Ukraine)
What is more, the most attractive thing for me is to always keep in mind that there could always be the opportunity to have it for almost free on the long term for top quality.
Hot Diggidy Dog
07-07-04, 09:23
Member 2001,
A Schengen visa is a visa that allows the holder to visit more than one of the Schengen agreement countries -- Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iceland, Italy, Luxembourg, The Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, Sweden.
It is at least as hard to get as a regular visa to any one of those countries. It's useful if you plan to travel around. You get the visa through the normal procedures from a consulate of the Schengen agreement country that is your primary destination.
It doesn't help you visit Ukraine, and it doesn't help your Ukranian sweetie visit you unless you live in a Schengen country.
Comparing Swiss visas with other western countries doesn't really make sense. The Swiss can be generous about letting people get visas, they keep tabs on everyone and hunt down people who overstay visas or work illegally. Countries like the UK, Canada, US, etc. that pretty much leave you alone once you're in the country have to be more vigilant at the visa-issuance level.
I will in and around Ukraine until the 17th, where isn't entirely certain.
Should be in Kiev for aat least a few days, so anyone interested in meeting for a drink, please PM me.
I don't have my other emails handy, so PM is probably best.
I can SMS if you provide a contact.
Thanks
All stats from the CIA factbook
H.I.V adult prevalence rate ( Ukraine ) 2%
H.I.V adult prevalence rate ( Brazil ) 0.07%
People living with H.I.V ( Ukraine ) 250,000
People living with H.I.V ( Brazil ) 610,000
H.I.V Deaths ( Ukraine ) 11,000
H.I.V Deaths ( Brazil ) 8,400
Take your pick, there isn't much between them. Personally I will stick to Ukrainian gals, as I just can't get enough of those lovely Slavic ladies. Anyway, I guess comparisons between the two aren't productive in the end.
TheGuyFromNY
07-07-04, 17:57
Any body familiar with the agency Stars From Heaven? I saw the report that said they are hard to reach in the Ukraine but are they real? Are the pictures real?
Is this true? Are Ukrainian girls intellectually oriented? More so than Romanians? They want more in life than just to go to the disco? You can actually have an intellectual discussion with them?
Vegamars
Loved your reply, truer words were never spoken.
However, after too many years here, I, too, have had the so-called privilege of seeing the visa process first hand for Ukrainians. I have taken holidays with girlfriends. I had stood in those queues, I have seen and heard the entire process from start to finish. I know in great detail what the consulates want and how these documents are obtained.
If things were as bad a you seem to say, transport from Ukraine to Western Europe should be empty. In actual fact, they are fairly full and most travelers are Ukrainians! On most flights that I take to Western Europe, I would guess at least 60% of the passengers are Ukrainians with a much higher percentage on trains and almost 100% on buses! 99.9% of all these people get their visas the normal way, not out the backdoor. Just drive by the consulates in the afternoons and see the queues who are there to get their visas when they hand them out. This is almost everyday all over the city.
Now as for that backdoor, the real problem is the applicant. I would say that the rate of denial for ladies from ages 17 or 18 to about 25 years of age is much higher than any other category. The rate is likely higher if she is attractive. The consulates somehow look upon these ladies as pursuing something more than a normal tourist visit. That may be the only reason for a special payment.
Member #2001
There is a SW scene somewhat like a Moscow tochka. It exists in about 3 or 4 major highways leading in and out of Kiev. The main one is Prospekt Peremohy from the center to the Ring Road starting from 10-11 at night. However, this is strictly for those who really want an adventure on the very wild side. The quality ranges from just OK to horrors. Many are druggies and the chances of STDs or AIDS is fairly good. The up side is that prices could be $20 or less. I don't do this scene but drive by real fast.
Chuponalgas
I have no reason to disbelieve the fact that these are actual ladies on the two sites so I am impressed. I am also impressed by the prices.
I am not sure that you can really compare Ukraine with Brazil and Argentina in terms of economics. Argentina's economy not too long ago went into a serious tailspin and is a basket case right now. Prices have to be low since the local guys also don't seem to have as much earning power. Brazil is better but it is still a third world nation staggering along. Slums and rampant poverty are much more prevalent there than in Ukraine. It exists here but Ukraine has by comparison with Argentia or Brazil, a much better safety net but one that is also very frayed as well.
Ukraine's economy is fairly solid and is growing at an 7-9% pace every year now for several years. The economic situation here is much better and prices should also reflect that healthier growth. As I said earlier, local prices are $40/$50 for the first hour, all services as well, so we are not looking at any huge disparity.
I hope you have a good time here and let us know your thoughts.
Member #2001
07-08-04, 04:56
Interesting comments Uke Boy. In all the times I have been in Kiev I never new that those places existed, because I never had a need to go anywhere by car, except to, and from the airport (Kiev has an excelent transportation system).
I usally try to pick up girls in the center near the statue of time and distance, or something. Its accross from the metro station Khreshetic. I have also had some luck just walking around and talking to girls on the street. I have never considered these places to be good for finding sw's though.
For mongering I like to walk around in cities in the south and find girls in a group of 2 or more. I dont like to say the name of the cities that I have been to, because then forieners go there the prices increase 200%
Anyway I might try to look at those highways next time I am in town, which I hope will be fairly soon. It wouild be interesting for me to take a look for myself. I dont think I will try them out though.
Goldfinger
07-08-04, 10:34
Flew in on a packed BA flight with mostly Ukranians. O'brians was quiet at 8pm, a few expats, Cafe111 was empty at 9:30pm, was impressed with the rotating bar though and the security wearing the latest blue digital camouflage. Was initialy a bit imtimidated by this but went in, they asked my age which I have never been asked in Uk because of my height. When I told them got free entry, which was just as well as it was empty. This seems to be a bit like Stockholm, don't even think about going out until midnight.
Went to bar Moda, which was deserted except for a few girls dancing by themselves, stuck it out until midnight when the crowd arrived. Was quite competive, if you checked prices and moved on the next guy was in light a shop. Got one girl down from $200 to $150 but was too tired to be bothered. After walking down the main street was a bit disappointed with the quality, they were nice enough but there are some tall, stacked girls just having a beer on a bench in town. Will try promemading tonight, wonder if they speak any English?
John Quakman
07-12-04, 05:47
OK, I blew it and have not yet gotten my Visa for my visit in August. When I was last in Kiev, 1998, it was possible to get one at Borispil for $50. It this still possible? Does anyone hava any other suggestions for short notice visa?
Re VISA-
you can try posting your question to travelinukraine.com
I got my visa in about 2 weeks, though on th 21 day process.
It was expensive though. ($300 for 3 year)
You will want to phone companies like gotorussia.com and speak with them. They now have offices in San Francisco and Atlanta. (or something like that)
It's always possible to get last-minute visas at any airport in any city, but your chances will be quite low and you'll have to go through a lot of questions, waiting for a long time, great distress and inconvenience.
Based From my experience:
One time for five yeres ago, in 1999, I Arrived In the BORISPOL airport, and I do not have a visa, the do not want to let me in, and I most go back to the USA, my money was like going in the river or in the trash.
So even do not try to come in kive wite out a visa.
her555
John Quakman
It is NOT at all possible to get last-minute visas at any airport in any city.
Airlines are now required to check the visas of all air passengers BEFORE boarding. If you do not have a visa, you do not board. The reason for this is if the airline does overlook your lack of documents or if they are out of date, the airline is fined by the Ukrainian government for allowing you to cross the border. The airline is also forced to place you on the return flight at their expense.
The chances of getting a visa here at the airport or any airport is nil.
Beansed is right, try using a visa service company. You will pay an extra fee but better that than being deported.
Good luck.
I have seen with my own eyes a lot of people getting visas at the airports of Kiev, Odessa, Kishinev, Minsk, Dniepropetrovsk, Moscow, etc. though it's commonly known as impossible to receive last-minute touristic visas.
Of course, the officials wouldn't want all people queing and fighting for visas at the airport.
It's quite difficult and more costly to get such visas, but not impossible if the regulations have not changed during the last couple of months.
Vegamars
You might recall the first time we differed. Your eyes said the weather in Kiev was very nice and I was looking out the window in Kiev that very moment and seeing something altogether different. Same with the visa issue, I guess.
Since you have stated before in this forum that you personally do not need a visa for Ukraine, your expertise in this area is lacking. I suspect that if you have seen anyone trying to get a visa at the airport these days (and I have not) these would more than likely be citizens of Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Bulgaria and other former Soviet bloc nations whose visa requirements are not or were not the same as those for most forum readers who are from the USA and the EU.
EU and USA citizens are checked for visas before they leave for Ukraine. Being denied boarding and losing your money not just on the ticket but also the entire trip is a very expensive lesson. A bigger loss than money is losing the opportunity to meet the ladies here.
How many want to risk that for a document relatively easy to get?
You know that it's a different Kiev I'm talking about, the special city of my dreams.
I think a temperature of +5-6 C and sunshine throughout the day for a couple of consecutive days at the end of November can be considered as hot for Kiev.
If you're careful enough, you can see the visa desks in airports of Kishinev, Moscow, Minsk, Odessa and Kiev with some Westerners waiting for fun and some mongering action.
Vegamars
I guess your Kiev is located somewhere near the equator.
Quickly checking back, it was not +5 but +1 and it had been overcast and occasionally foggy for a couple weeks, not sunny. November can be brutal as well. Two years ago, there was snow almost every day.
I will defer to your knowledge of Kishinev and Minsk. It has been too long since I have been there.
But as for Moscow, Odessa and Kiev, if you are from the EU or the USA and any other nation without a reciprocal visa-free travel agreement, if you come in without a visa the only lady you will be chatting with will be wearing a Border Guards uniform. Some of them are lookers but that is not the time you want to be meeting with them.
Is it possible to enter the Ukraine using a Russian Federation visa?
and
From which of the two countries is it easier to get a visa?
I have to agree with Uke Boy, Every time I get to the airprt before I leave they are cheking for the Visa. I have not seen anywhere about getting a Visa at entry.
I have however used a visa service but it still took about a week and a half to get it done useing the service and 3 day processing.
Well thats my 2c worth.
I really miss Ukraine and wish I could go back alot sooner and stay. Its nice to dream big.
later guys and have fun.
I just wanted to add my support to the visa discussion and agree it is impossible to enter Kiev without having a visa in advance. I know its been said a few times, but this strikes me as a fairly critical point to reiterate to anyone planning a trip from EU or USA.
It is possible and quiet easy, at least in London, to obtain a visa to either Russia or Ukraine through any of the visa services in 72 hours (costs around £140 all in - search online). My record for obtaining a visa to EE was just under 48 hours through one of these places, although this included using a borderline fake address as my contact place.
A few months ago, a colleague of mine was denied a visa to Russia as some of their paperwork was allegedly out of order. They had applied around 5 weeks prior and after chasing the embassy they finally turned them down the day before travel. Long story made short, they called me at 7pm, I phoned a Russian friend of mine, the Russian London network flew into action and by 11.30pm that night we had the visa in return for around £350 for a variety of "special fees". Moral is that very last minute visas for EE can be obtained in the country of origin in return for cash and if you know the right people. Even then you are taking a leap of faith its legitimate.
Maybe it's possible to bribe a customs officer at the airport too - do you really want to take the risk? Put it this way - would you ever try and bribe a customs officer in EU or USA? Now do you really want to try this for the first time at Ukraine or Russian customs?
Use any of the online services and you'll be fine, but unless you are really confident in this area I would highly reccomend not trying your luck for a visa at a Russian or Ukrainian airport, especially not Kiev, SPB or Moscow.
It is possible to get a visa at the airport. But only in Odessa and Simferopol. This kind of visas are turistvisas, so you need also a voucher of an travel agency. Visa will cost about 30 $.
Bez Bezarra
07-13-04, 05:30
Quack-O !
Download the visa application from the ukraine consualte website, fill it out and include the name of a travel agent from Kiev. Then just fed ex priority overnight it with your passport and your plane ticket, and the fees ($300) to them in washington, with a pre-paid return fed ex envelope inside. You'll have your visa in your hand in 3 or 4 days. Couldn't be any easier.
Shit, if only the pussy was that simple!
Have a nice time, do not forget your camera. You're now due to post some gushy stuff.
I'm pretty good with my memory of dates.
It was actually snowing everyday when I was trying to travel by train from Minsk to Kiev 2 years ago in November.
Last November it was quite hot, though this is the other Kiev I'm talking about.
I'm not asserting that you can get a last-minute visa for 100% at the airport, but I'm just trying to point out especially in Ukraine anything is surprisingly possible if you have the right connections and know exactly what to follow up.
Don't forget that even if you've got a visa beforehand, it doesn't guarantee your entry into the country and you've still got to know how to act in emergencies.
Member #2001
07-13-04, 08:16
I have NEVER heard of anybody getting turned away from entrance to ukraine if you have a visa. They want your MONEY!
Yea I guess anything is possible if you know the president of the country, otherwise I would not but to much into that other post.
About getting into the coutry you have to contact the consulate closest to where you are at.
http://www.ukrchicago.com/consular/english/index.html
This is the closest one near to my location and it lists the prices clearly for visas along with other usefull information.
I would never enter into a country without a visa. Im my opion it could end in a catastrophy.
Listen to Uke Boy, he knows what he's talking about. US and EU citizens aren't not allowed to board the plane going to Kiev if they don't have a visa. International airlines' know which passport holders need/don't need visas to whichever country the airline is flying to. And it's not just for Ukraine, it's for international flights in general. An American without a visa for Brazil won't be allowed to board the plane to Rio De Janeiro in Miami.
And please don't try bribing the passport control or customs officials at Borispol. It'll get you into trouble faster than you can say aha. Rule of thumb - never pull out or talk about money unless the other party brings it up. This goes for customs officials who are giving you hard time, militia finding your documents "out of order" etc.
Yo Vegamars,
Thanks for the info - can you elaborate on what you mean by "to know how to act in emergencies"?
"Whatever you end up doing though, you will have to talk to these girls, they defintely won't approach you, pro or otherwise. It is against their mentality... a cultural mindset in which real men go and get what they want and shy men that don't are just weak."
Yes, you have to talk to the girl. She is not going to come to you
and say "Hey you, my knight in the shining armor, traveler of seven seas, here in my country halfway across the world desperate since you can't get any tail in your own, thinking since the average official wage here is $300 throwing some $50 Euro bills around will impress me out of my panties, come hither and we'll go back to my parent's two bedroom apartment where I live with my five brothers and sisters and hump like bunnies till your dick falls off."
So, to make a long story short, yes, you have to talk to the girl and tell her all that yourself :).
And learn Russian. It will help.
One of the real problems in Ukraine is that the laws and rules can be and are often applied arbitrarily. This leads to the confusion that is so prevalent with such an issue as the visa. The rules can change so quickly that your only safe course of action is to get your visa from the nearest Ukrainian consulate before you leave.
Nemez has stated that you can get a visa at the airport in Odessa or Simferopol if you have a tourist voucher. However, this is only a single entry visa good for the length of stay in your voucher with a possible maximum of 14 days. I just checked a few web sites and even with this "rule," the amount of confusing and contradictory information is amazing.
The real problem is that you are now face to face with the Border official, you have paid for the flight and maybe even the hotels, and you are told "denied." Could happen, as Vegamars has mentioned.
The chances are it won't but if you have the time, get the visa BEFORE you leave and try and stay as far far away from or spend as little time with any official, be they border guards, customs, police or bureaucrats. That is only asking for trouble.
Snowy is very correct. Trying to bribe any official in Ukraine (as anywhere) could be hazardous to your personal situation. Jails are very ugly places here. Having any bureaucrat in Ukraine do you favors in return for cash is an art, something locals know how to do in the proper manner but not foreigners, especially if they are experiencing this for the first time. Don't even think of trying it. The only exception is such as being stopped by the police, is to pay if asked for a specific amount.
Ludovico
No, it is not possible to enter the Ukraine using a Russian Federation visa. You also cannot enter Russia with a Ukrainian visa.
From my experience, it is far easier to get a Ukrainian visa.
quote
Nemez has stated that you can get a visa at the airport in Odessa or Simferopol if you have a tourist voucher. However, this is only a single entry visa good for the length of stay in your voucher with a possible maximum of 14 days. I just checked a few web sites and even with this "rule," the amount of confusing and contradictory information is amazing.
/quote
I researched this a bit the last few months and its an Odessa seasonal thing not even mentioned on the offical sites.
According to one site, the government has been known to turn this on and off at will without warning or reason.
Even knowing if its in effect would be left to primarily country specific travel agencies.
There is also one for cruise line passengers that gives up to 72 hours or so, but I doubt anyone cares about that.
A recent articale in the Kyiv Weekly hints of changes in the passport, customs and immigration areas. (some many never see the light of day) The when would be the big question.
I need more info Brothers? Can any one help me out here? I see old posts but I need the new info Brothers. I have the visa thing done the apartment thing done,. I need help with the ladies, girls, prices,pros, all the rest? I want to have the best time I can have there in Kiev. I will be there in september around the 10 for 15 days If you guys want to hook up I am there. I like the best looking girls, I want the barbi dolls fake every thing so long as thy are hot Hot! So can I get some help. You guys are the best at this kind of stuff. I want in on the action.
All the best Brothers,
Tommy NYC
Thnks her555 I will try thet lovly girl.
She is beutiful
Thanks Uke Boy,
Now, I was wondering if like me you are considering a mongering trip for about 10 days, what type of visa should you get? I have seen there are tourist, private and business visas available. Also, is it better to go to your local Ukrainian consulate and arrange it yourself or get one of these Ukrainian companies to sort it out for you and send you a letter of invitation?
I hope that we can once and for all put the visa to rest.
YOU SHOULD GET YOUR VISA BEFORE YOU LEAVE FOR YOUR UKRAINE VISIT!
Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Anything anyone else tells you will put you into possible serious risk of financial losses, not to mention not being able to see the ladies here.
Can we return to that topic of the ladies here, please?
I was curious about the request by Tucker so did a username search. Looks like one somewhat useful post about Argentina. There are requests for info here in Kiev and also Dubai and thinking about Poland (all September). It will be interesting to read the experiences Tucker has after September passes.
Ludovico
Just get a tourist visa, simple, cheap and quick.
If you go to the consulate yourself, first download any applications that are on the website of the nearest consulate and fill it out. Take it along with photos to the consulate and chances are good that you will have to wait in a long queue, especially in summer.
If spending a few hours and maybe more than one visit to the consulate is not for you, then use a local visa service. These services usually know what needs to be done and do things very efficiently, for a price.
By the way, if you have a EU or US passport no need for that silly letter of invite, just the application is enough.
John Quakman
07-14-04, 18:06
OK, solved the Visa thing thanks to advice here now I have to try and solve a place to stay. I read here the Dnipro Hotel is monger friendly and is the best choice in Hotels however I perfer a flat. Any recent experiences that anyone can reccomend?
I have inquired about a guide and translator service similar to the service Zergut used in Febuary, VIPGateway, but they do not respond to thier email and have no phone listed. Snowy also posted about a service Translator he used but again no response. Any other suggestions.
Finally, I will arrive on 11 Aug until 15 Aug and would like to meet up with any like minded guys who are around during that time.PM me and maybe we can hook up.
I know that all this info comes with a price so you can count on several long posts with pictures of my adventures!
Goldfinger
07-14-04, 19:02
uaapartments.com were excellent. In Odessa now, the apartments aren't such high quality here. Odessa is like Paris after a bomb has gone off.
Club report, Hollywoods is now called Freedom and the disco is closed until september. Opium was dead on saturday so went to Decadance. Imagine a street in New York with double parked Hummer, Lincoln Navigator and other suv's all in black with blacked out windows. The guys don't dance so had the girls to myself, thought i had died and gone to heaven. Thursday went to a place called Tchaikosky, that was good scene as well. I have had some mind blowing experiences in Kiev. Not sure you would believe me if I shared!
Goldfinger,
It's funny you should bring up the thing about the guys not dancing. Usually the guys sit at the table, talk and drink, and their girls are dancing on the floor by themselves.
Here's the thing, however. If they see you trying to dance up with their chick, they'll come thundering to the dance floor. At first, I used to tell them fuck off, but trust me, that doesn't work too well with these mafia types. And these folks with the big black cars are all mafia (or higher up politisia). I've got in trouble with this quite a bit, and now try to see the girl is not with anyone.
Another thing - if you go to a club and start chatting up too many girls, some of the local guys start getting jealous. They'll stare at you, whisper to their friends etc. It's nothing dangerous, but it creates problems. At one club, I danced with several girls, and then went out to the toilet. One return, the guard at the door wouldn't let me back in. I told him I had my stuff inside, he still refused. I wasn't going to give up that easily, but a militisia officer I had I met a couple of days earlier showed up out of nowhere at the door from inside and told the guard to let me in. Had a drink with this guy, and he invited me to join his group of colleagues. Guess what? One of the younger guys started very aggresively demanding money from me. They were in plainclothes, but you can't walk away from them either. I got away without having to pay, but not before things got pretty nasty. And I didn't want any of this crap, I was just there to have a good time.
Point is - attracting too much attention to yourself is also a problem. Some people here have said to act as macho as you can. I don't agree with that. Their sample size is fairly small, and there are exceptions, but as a foreigner it is best to strike a balance - be confident but don't go around giving the idea that you think you own the place. Remember that story about a dog doesn't like other dogs to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) in his territory.
As you know there are two Kievs, whether we believe you depends on which version you're talking about!
The one as cold as ice or as hot as it can be?
Thanks Uke Boy,
I've definantly decided that my next foreign adventure will be in Kiev. All that remains for me to do is to save as much cash as possible and to get as much good advice as possible from this thread.
By the way, do people in Ukraine expect you to pay for services (general or not), in dollars, euro's or local currency?
Just Do It
07-19-04, 21:39
Well I am just back from 3 weeks in Ukraine and Russia. I spent my first week in Kiev and it was wonderful! If you want beautiful sexy and numerous women Kiev is great!
I had a wonderful apartment in the center about a block from McDonalds. The place was very nice clean very modern and the girls loved it.
I must say the people were very friendly and nice and girls are everywhere. I really do love thong season.
The first night I found a very cute 25 year old blond in the center for $100 for 2 hrs with everything offered. What I find amazing is how unlike american women these girls seem to really love sex! Now I know I could have paid less but WOW was she hot!
Night 2 was River Palace night and there was plenty to pick from. I had complete overload for a while. I ended with a 23 slim tiny blond who literally drained me every way possible for $150. She started at 250 but was very willing to come down in price when I laughed at her.
The next 4 days were spent with a girl I met from the internet and all I can say is Holy Shit! She looked just like Michelle Phiefer and turned plenty of heads. She lived in a small village several hours away by bus. I mean small 2000 people. She has no running water lives with her mom and takes care of her and looked like a million bucks! In the states this gal would turn every head. This was all free! I really like free! I did spend a couple hundred dollars on her for gifts but not at her request. She also treated my money like it was hers. Really she was tighter than I was. I had a world class tour of Kiev for several days and a tour around the world every night.
I really can reccomend this method if you want true GFE. It takes some time and effort but if you do your homework the results are amazing! If you need details PM me. I used this method for all 3 weeks and as a first time visitor with no Russian skills the results were just amazing!
My take is Kiev had the sexiest women and were the friendliest people. A very nice city. I look foreward to returning.
I encountered no problems with customs or the police and even asked for directions a couple times. Now I am 40 overweight and not a god but I am extroverted and confident and this is like shooting fish in a barrell and so much more fun.
All I can say is if you havn't been there you need to see it to believe it. And if you are there often I am truly envious of all your oppertunities.
Sorry no pictures but next time I will have a digital camera.
Thanks for all the advice and if anyone needs help PM me.
Hi,
This is just a suggestion, so please don't take it the wrong way.
I appreciate the details in your report, but I know from experience that a lot of people find it easier to read a report if the paragraphs are separated by a single blank line.
I know how this happens: You're banging away at the keyboard, putting your thoughts into the report as fast as you can write them. However, if you could hit the return key TWICE at the end of each paragraph, your report would be much easier to read, which would certainly be appreciated by your fellow Forum Members.
Thanks,
Jackson
Excepting Argentina & Brazil -
Ukraine is the place to go. Thanks to many here who helped with info. It is difficult to believe how anyone could stay married very long with so many deadly women.
Kiev is hard to beat.
No stopping for papers by any type of police or Militia. I encountered no, repeat no prejudice or bad treatment . Of the few blacks or asians I did encounter, none had anything bad to report. Friendly people, easy to talk to, if they happen to speak English.
The wildlife (girls on the street) far better than anywhere in SE Asia, Moscow, Mexico or other parts of Europe. (I have been to 40 countries). All of Vogue could be published off girls you might see in a day. The #1 export product is clearly the women, since you find them in almost every men's Club in the world.
Once there, grab the Kyiv Post (section 3) for good club listings, things to do and a few classifieds. (its in English). Learning some Cyrillic is important, as most signs dont use the latin alphabet. Customs only cares about cash you are carrying in or out and its easier than many western countries beyond the wait, as in Russia.
I too had a great experience with UAApartments and also great ease and low expense to buy travel through American Express in Kiev (a contract agency) They also had the best cash exchange rate. Of course the English was pretty important.
All in All, the daily cost, far outweighs the cost of the VISA. best to get a 3 year multi-entry , as it saves you money in the long run and you will have no choice, but to return.
Hey, you've found the Kiev I've been talking about, congratulations!
I know how you feel, you wanna get back as quickly as possible.
It's always the same feeling, no matter how many times you visit.
I guess you get used to some things and have a different view when you're living in a city. For real scene, just be a visitor.
TheGuyFromNY
07-20-04, 14:53
Does anybody know anything about renting office space in Kiev?
Just Do It
07-20-04, 15:19
Due to the number of PM's I have gotten here is the method I used to meet regular girls. I know it works and will work for you as well.
Due to the number of requests I have had I am sending this to all of you and if you need more specific info write me back.
I did a lot of home work before I left on a lot of sites to know what to look for and what to say and expect so this was for me a 6 month process and in reality you will need at least2 or 3 months to do it right.
I am 40 and all the sites I read said to keep the age difference between 5 and 15 years so I searched for girls fron 29 to 35. Now there are hundreds of sites to use but the best for me was FriendFinder.com not I repeat not Adultfriendfinder. It costs 50 dollars for 6 months and is a bargin.
I typed one introduction letter I used for all and customized the first and last paragraph to each girl. I only searched for girls who were active in the last 3 days and that way I knew they were also looking. I can not stress this enough... The letter must be open and friendly and must tell little personal things like I love sunsets or hot coffee in the morning. Also tell a little about friends and family and your work but never brag. I know this sounds corny but I promise it will work.
I sent out 20 letters in the first week and had 18 responses. From there I wrote each twice more and then settled on the best 3. I did not pick girls from Kiev or Lugansk. Kiev because I was visiting there and it was no real treat for them to meet me and Lugansk because of the scammers.
After all this I wrote about 3 or 4 times a week to each just talking about everything but never sex. I did this for a couple months till I was sure they were hooked and then I said I would love to meet them and they were thrilled. Each thought they were the only one and I was comming to see just them. I need to say this is true in the sense that I had a different girl in each city.
Now I was a first time visitor so I wanted to do all the tourist stuff in the day and I speak no russian so this is an amazing way to go. They will take you all over the city much cheaper than you can and show you all the cool tourist stuff plus other things.
You just need to treat them with respect and be nice. In all 3 cases the first night they slept on the couch but night 2 was wild and crazy. I did not push it and they all came to me and the sex was amazing.
No it was not free I paid for everything we did and bought all 3 girls gifts from the U.S. and some clothes when I was with them. The total for each girl was about 200 dollars so still a bargin.
By using this I kept the first 2 or last 2 days free in each city to have the P4P girls and Then was able to expirence the cities better than a tourist tour for little expense with great sex.
Now I must say all these girls are looking to get married and I was up front and said I was also if I found the right girl....well maybe upfront.
If you do this right it will work like a dream. The Miclelle Phiefer look alike was 35 and so hot I drool even now!
Good luck pm me with questions
Just Do it:
As someone with very little freebie experience, your method fascinates me. Similar methods have been tried and shared by other members. A notable, witty example is that of the "Havanaman", narrated in the form of a "scientific study"!
Now, please tell us a little about the aftermath. You mentioned you kept the last two days free in each city; how did you "break free" from the girls, after scoring the night before? Also, what did you do when you got back home? Did you simply stop responding to their e-mails, or did you excuse yoursef?
Regards,
Sexplorer
In fact, there's an incredible number of searching freebies among the 15-25 age range and in my opinion it's much easier and quicker to get response and action from this age group when compared to the 26-35 age range.
I've observed that it's completely needless to use any paysites. You could even search through the messenger to contact hundreds.
For the quickest result to the endpoint, being brave and expressing yourself in a confident way to reflect your aim openly is the ultimate way of success. Don't forget that you have one common point with these freeby chicks, that is to share a new adventure, so what's the point of waiting and losing time?
Of course, the best way is to direct your business in such a wise way that you'll face an unevitable direct face-to-face contact with all kinds of opportunities and not just suffice with internet-fishing.
Just Do It
07-21-04, 15:01
Sexplorer,
In the first 2 cities I visited I kept the first 2 days open and then had the girls join me. The last city I kept the last 2 days free. This was easy as I told her I had a flight out and made sure mine was well after hers so I took her to her train and just returned to the apartment.
I wrote to all 3 when I returned 3 days ago. Two to thank and a see you someday letter and the third well we really hit it off and will see each other again. Who knows where that will lead but I can say this she is more intelligent and fun and witty than any woman I have met in years. I should also note that she was the least beautiful of the 3. Still very hot just not Michelle Phiefer.
Also I set up a seperate email account to use just for this.
I know there are plenty of free sites to do this at but the friendfinder site was by far the easiest and they all have a least a little English ability.
In my first letter I included my new email address and I also phoned each of the 3 girls several times using onesuite. This was a very cheap way to phone and thanks to this board for helping me find it.
This method worked wonders for me and I am sure it can work for anyone who is articulate and can express themselves. If you have any other questions just ask.
Stravinsky
07-21-04, 15:33
Opus Dog,
Check your PM
I will be in Kive from August 15 to August 30.
Can any one give me contacts and info from girl's blond's, toll, tine. and she shel let me french kissing her.
Thanks in advance, and all the best for you.
Her555
here's an article i found. it makes for quite an interesting read so i thought i'd share it.
the issue of the world’s oldest profession well known to all was raised last monday by a team of researchers from the ukrainian institute for social research, led by olha balakirieva, candidate of sciences in sociology, during the presentation of the book, the sex business in ukraine: a tentative social analysis. those present discussed the legal, economic, social, and other aspects. the book is based on a study carried out by ukrainian sociologists jointly with the unaids program in ukraine and supported by the german government. it is actually ukraine’s first attempt to practice a scientific approach to the notoriously controversial issue of prostitution. uisr polled 636 women involved in the sex industry in ukraine’s twelve large cities and complemented it with a fundamental analysis of the legal framework.
“is there prostitution in ukraine? no. are there prostitutes? yes.” this once popular soviet anecdote is no longer funny, for the reality is too grim. there are no reliable prostitution statistics, yet sociologists believe this to constitute no obstacle to studying the issue. “it is demanded by the times,” ms. balakirieva told the day, adding that the need is obvious without even stepping into the street. press, television, police (militia), border guard, and foreign ministry reports are all alarming signals that prostitution in ukraine is gaining a threatening scope. after the ussr’s collapse, ukrainian women without visas but on call have become quite popular on the sex market the world over.
hustling overseas
a number of trend-setting international agreements are currently in effect regulating the sex industry in practically all countries, particularly the 1949 un convention for the suppression of traffic in persons and the exploitation of prostitution by third parties, whereby pimping, or procurement, is criminally prosecuted (ukraine acceded to the convention in november 1954).
meanwhile, different national laws interpret the sex industry differently, reads the uisr book and offers interesting examples. such laws dealing with prostitution could be divided into three groups: (a) those decriminalizing prostitution, (b) restricting, and (c) abolishing it. of these the first group deserves special notice.
holland, germany, australia, greece, sweden, israel, turkey, peru, ecuador, and other countries have long shown tolerance toward prostitution. “by introducing this system, the state tries to keep track of prostitutes; they must have special medical certificates,” write the authors, stressing that revenues in the sex industry are taxed.
in turkey, for example, a woman embarking on the world’s oldest career is relieved of her id papers as a citizen and is issued instead a prostitute id card and a medical certificate where the results of weekly checkups are entered (a so-called pink card). in greece, a prostitute is considered illegal unless duly registered; if arrested, she will be prosecuted and could get a prison term. in germany, prostitution income is referred to as miscellaneous, and the rates are higher than the rest, reads the uisr book. also, german prostitutes are denied tax exemptions, old-age pension and social protection (the german civil code does not refer the sex industry to business). in france, the owners of brothels and streetwalkers are levied taxes referred to budget revenues.
a host of other examples could be cited. however, the important thing is that by decriminalizing prostitution the state can not only exercise medical, fiscal, and law enforcement control over the lewd livelihood but also automatically place extramarital affairs on a basis of business self-regulation. first, it is clear that most customers feel more enthusiastic about legally and medically controlled red- light institutions rather than solo hustlers. second, the competition in the sex market automatically regulates supply. according to the uisr experts, 80% of dutch prostitutes work for clubs, in the lit windows of the famous red light district or for procurement agencies. naturally, this kind of structuring benefits the state. on the one hand, it simplifies tax procedures; on the other, it helps maintain public order. norwegian law prohibits “vulgar conduct in the street.” in germany, a streetwalker in the wrong place at the wrong time can be arrested and given administrative punishment. in great britain, with its limited decriminalization stand, “the law looks for ways to avoid serious problems for society; prostitutes are forbidden open solicitation in public places, they cannot behave provocatively and hang around waysides.”
such excessive permissiveness (by ukrainian standards) has a number of hazardous aspects. morality is not the biggest problem, including the civil law inferiority of all those call girls. renting one’s body for sexual activity is a matter of personal choice, in any case and in any country, while the moral responsibility seems to rest with the prostitute’s customer in equal measure. olha balakirieva noted that it is practically impossible to regulate the sex industry. uisr experts offer statistics reading that 400 prostitutes were officially registered in athens in 1995, with some 5,000 hustling off the record; about 5,000 in germany, with approximately 150,000 actually employed in the sex industry. “a large number of migrant prostitutes cannot get registered, having no social status in this or the other country,” they write in the book. “as a result, most such women not only face punishment from the authorities, but also fall into the hands of criminal dealers.” what happens afterward is described rather discretely: “hard ordeals with unpredictable consequences.” what countries do women emigrate from in search of a better living? this is a rhetorical question.
how and why here
true to soviet tradition, ukraine prohibits and declares its resolve to uproot prostitution. contrary to the plummeting cultural standard, the sociologists point out, the state is dedicated to combating all manifestations of immorality. this is a very proper stand, of course, but market demand begets supply. moralizing on decriminalization perhaps makes no sense under the circumstances, just as no legal or other taboos are going to have any effect. moreover, as zaporizhzhia lawyer ruslan synelnyk told the day, the “absence of prostitution” in the soviet union caused the legal framework of control over the sex industry in ukraine to remain embryonic. prostitution is banned. how, then, can one discuss any shortcomings of the legislation? answers to this question are found on all big ukrainian city streets and sidewalks.
until recently, ukrainian fallen women were given only administrative punishments. under article 181, chapter 14 of the administrative code of ukraine, prostitution (engaging in sexual activity in exchange for payment in money, expensive presents, alcoholic drinks, etc.) entailed a warning or a fine in the amount of 5-10 untaxed minimum citizen’s incomes; such conduct repeated during the same year entailed a fine of 8- 15 such incomes. naturally, such punishments (soviet relics) could not guide such women to the straight and narrow. on the contrary, the sex market thrived (a good example of state deregulation of the business sector). “the sex business in today’s ukraine is a socioeconomic phenomenon, because its blossoming is stipulated by our realities,” write the authors of the tentative social analysis, pointing to objective reasons: incomes that cannot keep a person above even the poverty line, unemployment, etc. doubtless, they are right in very many respects.
yet, their poll shows that the situation is far more complex. 73% of the responding prostitutes explained their occupation by being loath to earn token money sitting in some office; 49% believe that “the sex business is no better or worse than any other job,” and 20% simply like it. what is this? final moral degradation, determination to earn much and quickly? despair? or both? most unmarried call girls replied that they would quit once they met a decent man, a reliable lifelong companion, the alternative being a decent job allowing to make at least as much as they did, employing their body (an average of around 800 hryvnias a month). be it as it may, the ukrainian government is apparently unable to secure the citizenry a living wage of $100-150.
all this presents far from the biggest hardships confronting the authorities in their attempt to uproot prostitution using the law. after the ussr collapsed, the controls over the sex industry controls stayed unmanned only a short while. asocial elements considerably more dangerous than prostitution took over procurement and supply on the other side of the law. thus, actually, they made white slave trade a threatening and intractable problem.
the new criminal code (enacted by verkhovna rada last september) makes women employing their body for sexual activity criminally prosecutable. ruslan synelnyk told the day that the pertinent articles envisage criminal prosecution only when carrying the plague of the twenty-first century and “systematically offering sexual services.” “apparently, proving both the former and latter is practically rather difficult. there are no means of effectively combating prostitution in ukraine today,” stressed the lawyer. meanwhile, tightening the screws legally has made the promiscuous women even more leery of pimps; the new legislation allows the latter an extra edge on their charges. this is all true enough.
the sociology of domestic abolitionism
“the girls work to support their families, children, and to pay the militia. i’ll never believe there is an honest militiaman,” a kharkiv prostitute complained to the uisr pollsters, revealing yet another amazing, albeit easily explicable, problem of the profession. in fact, 45% of the respondents pointed to the omnipotent law enforcement authorities as their greatest peril (only 18% mentioned violence). the problem here is not only law enforcement personnel acting in the line of duty. the sociologists stress that focus group polling shows different patterns of relationships between the law and the prostitutes in different ukrainian cities, “probably depending on the environment that breeds crime in every given region. analyzing interviews with various representatives of the sex business, one often comes across acts of violence and coercion by the law enforcement authorities; women are ordered to part with money and physically abused.” by way of “enriching” the criminal code, law enforcers mete out their own punishment, making prostitutes attend voluntary unpaid work; in this case, the prostitutes must offer their bodies free to all who wish to use them.
together with this, the sociologists write, “the law very often uses such women as valuable sources of information about the underworld.” a call girl in donetsk, for example, admits that “the militia demand information about pimps and customers.” o tempora! o mores! however, such confessions do not shed enough light on the problem of prostitute-police relations. a well-informed source told the day that some law enforcement people, apart from everything else, willingly act as sex industry tax collectors where there is no “protection.” their tax rates are anything but soft: 10-30%. needless to say, none of this money goes to the state budget. what will the state stand to lose by bringing prostitution officially under control? the sociologists’ poll has no answer.
“in actuality, the prostitutes in ukraine constitute a practically unprotected category of the population,” ms. balakirieva told the day. the poll shows that about 60% of call girls have faced various acts of violence. the incidence of [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) tends to increase, depending on the given veteran’s service record in the sex market. the highest risk area is in the south of ukraine (as indicated by 68% respondents). kyiv is relatively safe (only two-fifths of the respondents mentioned [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123)). 67% admit to having been raped by their customers and 35% by strangers. “there is no use asking the militia for help; they say you’ve made your bed, now lie in it,” says a prostitute from mykolayiv. small wonder, considering that 27% of the respondents insist they were raped by law enforcement personnel.
meanwhile, it should be noted that, cast in the social gutter, a fallen woman can cause far more trouble than the highest carnal delight experienced by her customer. the poll indicates that about half the prostitutes use contraceptives on a regular basis and over 66% indulge in unprotected sex; 37% of the respondents admit to having sustained venereal diseases (of whom 9% got the dose after only six months of work). every sixth prostitute agrees to have unprotected sex for an additional sum; every fourth is on drugs. the list of additional pleasures the customer could get from such women could be made much longer, but the point is that most respondents mention difficulties in getting medical aid. often they are refused even physicals. dr. balakirieva says that aids and vd incidence are two underlying justifications for studying the sex industry in ukraine. it is hard to say how the authorities can find a way out of the situation. one thing is certain. anyone about to send for a call girl should think twice.
№17 may 28 2002 «the day»
in using our publications, reference to the day is mandatory. © "День"
The local term for men coming out for women, and not a label you want.
You kiss them once and they are all over you, highly aggressive. They love compliments, as they seem to get few.
When asked though, vacation\holiday isn't the best answer. Best to be there for business. (Monkey business)
In part, it presents a value for your time.
A friend I spoke to today feels that 22-26 is the correct range for women interested in older men. 26-35, greater lilihood they have been divorced and still have burn marks. It makes it more difficult to get intimate with them. Many use a 10 year frame, but I have found the younger ones really don't care.
Women seem to appreciate well dressed men and she also noted that if you just wear a t-shirt, jeans or a polo shirt, you are dressing like a local man and there isn't that uniquness of being a visitor. These same women definately check you out, although they don't stare you down as in Sweden.
Another item is anger, a few were impressed that I didn't get upset at all. Apparently Eastern European men tend to have a short temper with women. Answers why they are so often subordinate.
Also, try not to drink unless they are, because drunk, lazy men is a real turn-off and very common.
You see all kinds of dumpy looking guys on the plane with women old enough to be their kid, (you wonder how they landed the hot girl) except they are married. (children in tow)
MHO
Heres a thumbs-up for an agencygirl.
I had planned an 24 hours appointment with Alexandra from escortodessa so I didnt have to feel lonely on arrival. The correspondence with the agency was a bit shaky. It was like only every other email got an answer, but I pushed on. But when I arrived, everything was excactly as I had specified. It was a real GFE no bars held. Both normal sex and bdsm obviously turned this very cute and sexy girl on. I feel in love.
I also went mongering in 111 and Moda. Both good places, especially 111 if you want to take an extremely young model with you home (I didn,t). Standard problem for the shy-guys though. I never had the guts to ask a girl if she was a pro, so nogo there. Resttown on a tuesday was sadass. 4-6 cute, but worn girls, with a whole bunch of weirdo-guys made me want to cry. Maybe the vibe is better on weekends?
Anyone around Kiev this weekend (July 29 to Aug 03)? Trying to seek out the local non-pro talent.
I was In kiev, donetsk and lugansk for the last 25 days and yes this place is actually overflowing with girls....
I went to river palace on a monday and it was packed with girls.
bargained with one and she was back with me for $150, the hotel security was not a problem too.
Good BBBJ, No CIM but she fucked the life out of me !!
John Quakman
07-29-04, 17:10
Hey, great picture of a beer bottle, white square and your suitcase!!!
First of all, thanks to everyone for their great reports and feedback. I've done a bit of mongering in several spots in North America and Mexico but after reading all of the great reports about Ukraine I have to see for myself. I'm going to check out the paid scene and also give my best go to finding some freebies.
So based on recommendations here I rented an apartment in Kiev through www.uaapartments.com which was simple. Every email was returned quickly and all questions were answered. I was even able to bargain them down a bit on the price since it was just for one person and I wanted it for seven days.
I also followed Just Do It's advice using Friendfinder.com which also was spot-on. Much better than matchdoctor.com which was a complete bust for me (all the return letters seemed like form letters and you could tell none of the girls really spoke English). The way Friendfinder works is actually pretty cool too in that you automatically know which ladies are checking out your profile which makes it much easier to get in contact with those you like.
I'll be in Kiev from 17 Aug to perhaps the 25th. Would love to hook up with anyone here for a beer - just PM me. It can be fun to hunt with a wing man!
FYI I've only managed to learn about 50 words of Russian
but that was rather fast and simple using a great language course available at www.unforgettablelanguages.com. I did learn the Russian alphabet though and with more time could get enough to get by just from this course. It's a very slick way to learn and they have an online demo which is what sold me. Several days after viewing the demo and promptly making no further efforts whatsoever I still recalled all of the words I'd learned!
Will submit a complete report upon my return. Until then hats off to the great posters who inspired my trip; among them Mangus Man, Vegamars, Beansd, Ukieboy, and several others that should be mentioned but I'm just too lazy to go back and look up their names.
Thanks guys!
Bez Bezarra
07-30-04, 12:53
VD Dick.
For all your 25 days there, don't you have ANY pics of all your beautiful Donets'k or Lugans'k girls you discuss? Also, how about some info on Donets'k & Lugans'k prices. Certainly not same as Riverboat brothel $150, right?
By the way, what kind of VD does your dick have, oh sorry, its voo-doo, not vee-dee, well, its only a joke.
Lundgren.
Nice report. So you're saying that you used escortodessa for a girl in Kiev, not in Odessa, right? That makes sense, since I thought that the main escort agency in Odessa is called VIP.
Also, can we know how much you paid for your 24 hours?
Get an e-mail so you can get pm!
Mangus Man or Lady whatever
Well I Dont have more pics as the girls were more fussy in lugansk, dint have time to fool around in donetsk.
As far as what my dick has...If you are so interested why dont you suck it............just a joke !!!
VD
I've read all the posts in the Ukraine board (and have likely forgotten half of the great info). But I'm still fuzzy on the topic of money there. In Western Europe I usually just use my ATM card to get Euros from my U.S. bank. However I recall somebody saying there aren't any ATMs in Kiev. Is this true? If there are, do they work the same as western european ones?
Of course the usual fallback is cash since traveler's checks are likely going to be a big pain in Ukraine if it is even possible to use them at all.
So that brings me to the question of cash and customs. I remember several people saying the customs guys want to know how much cash you are bringing in, and how much you leave with. So what's the right thing to do? If I blow half the cash I brought in on ladies are they going to give me a hard time about leaving with a lot less? Would appreciate some advice here.
Bez Bezarra
07-31-04, 01:26
To VOO DOG DOO
Oh....so its like that? Ok.
That's cool, yeah. So let's all just calm down here. We can discuss this now.
Mr. Jackson, if you'll indulge us a brief moment for reparte', I'll keep it light, no need to intercede, we're all mature adults, all friends here, right?
So.....I said it was ONLY a joke, didn't I?
See, its just that we're all STILL waiting around for the first Lugans'k and Donets'k girls, and I just had this bad feeling that you blew it, and obviously, well,
do I really need to go on?
You know, if you hadn't BRAGGED about your 25 days, we could have let you slide, but don't you think you were just a bit irresponsible, when YOU had the perfect opportunity to pop those city's cherries on this board. So you actually got off pretty easy, seeing as YOU are the one with the Username of a penis.
And speaking of that, unless you just logged on for the first time, you'd know I have no interest whatsoever in your or any guy's parts. The very idea makes me ill. Nor, like YOU, am I interested in any GUY sucking me, but if that happens to be YOUR particular fancy, may I suggest you head downtown to your favorite queer bar so you can satisfy your now out of the closet desires to have your best buddy blow you behind the bus bench. As far as me and the rest around here are concerned, dicks are specifically for chicks.
You see, you can shoot back one god damn hell of a zinger and call me a Lady or a whatever, but its probably a much safer bet to say that there's more mongers than just me having problems with your story, expecting us to buy that any monger could waste 25 days, let alone 25 minutes in Donets'k, a bustling city of one million, just crawling with skirts, and not even have ANY time to fool with your tool?
Your fussy pussy story about Lugans'k is almost believable, but 3 weeks of gerkin jerkin in a candystore like Ukraine is a virtual crime punishable by sentencing you to the monger's hall of shame!
HEY! ITS A JOKE! GET IT??
Focus! Focus!
ATMs are more common than fire hydrants in Kiev. (followed by casinos)
The larger banks and ATMs give far better exchange than any manned by people. If you must exchange cash, go to American Express Office. (1.5%) Banks charge 3% on travellers checks in addition to other fees to exchange them.
Banks charge fees like brokerage firms do, for everyday transactions. (we all need to own a bank in UKR)
Its a cash economy there so don't expect extensive use of a credit card for goods or services.
All ladies take USD or Euro, but vendors only take local paper.
As many have noted and I experienced, don't worry about anything except what is written on the customs form. Leave with as little cash as possible.
I watched a guy lose some of his money exceeding the limit at Customs,(departing) but he was stupid enough to tell the women he had no problems in the past. (never a good idea to argue with customs) He probbly lost at least a few hundred Euros as I watched his cash get counted ahead of me.
bob dobbs
lots of atms. beansed's advice is right on the mark. don't waste your time here with traveler's checks. the only places that will cash them are banks, the lines are long and the procedure is a pain in the ass.
if you have more than $1,000 in cash on your way into ukraine, you should declare it by filling out a customs declaration form and making sure the customs officer stamps it. do not lose this document. this document allows you to take out that exact amount of money on your way out.
if you have less than $1,000 either on your way in or out, a verbal declaration is enough. they may ask you to show you the money but then will let you go on your way. just don't play games as they will confirep001e anything they want to if they catch you in a lie. you may also be lucky enough to miss your flight and stay over at the airport for another day.
To MANGUS LADY MAN
Yes its like that !!!!!!!!!! ok
We can discuss this.....
Well I dint brag about my 25 days in Ukraine, I was there !!!
Its a fact !!
Your bad feelings are your's totally, Please dont be the Judge of other people's experiences. have some on your own and enjoy your life a little !!!
I went to kiev on business and not for mongering, poping a few cherries was a side thing not a priority !!
I posted a picture of a girl I had a good experience with to share with everybody here, not be ridiculed !!
That is the purpose of this board !!
You started this thing but Iam ending it !!
VD
With much humbleness, I submit this partial report of time spent thus far in Kiev. I have been making a swath through Eastern Europe and have been in Kiev for three disastrous days. My flat, obtained through Alpha Agency, is right off Bessarabska Square and really nice for $50/night. No air conditioning though and it has been very hot and humid here, which just about kills a Vegas boy likeme. Don't know if I've ever sweated so much in my life.
Thursday
Arrived from Kharkov by train. I cannot express how much I hated that city. No center, none of the legendary Ukrainian beauties I hear about. I ate something there that made me sick for days and maybe I'll just attribute my poor showing here in Kiev to that.
Went to Club Tchaikovsky, which was very packed and pretty fun. The cover was 50 hrv, though. The deejays participate just a little bit too excessively for my tastes, making themselves the center of attention. As my intestines were doing cartwheels I really didn't have my best game face on, but I did enjoy some of the sights. I approached one Anna Kournikova lookalike, tried to engage her with my horrible Russian, had a little success, but she was really there just to dance. Nothing else really caught my eye but I'm really just a picky asshole. Went home alone.
Friday
After sleeping twelve hours, still not feeling 100%, did some touristy things during the day, chatted with some locals. No phone numbers, though, as I was still off my game.
Forced myself to the Irish Bar around 10:30pm and ran into the dreaded expatella, cute enough I suppose, from the USA. It took me a good thirty minutes to shake her off, just in time for a group of Aussies/Norwegians to lasso her in. They asked me where to go for fun, and from info from this board I suggested Cocktail 111. They goaded me into going, we lost the American chick and piled into a private car for 10 hrv. They were amazed that I just flagged down a car and they rewarded me with drinks all night long. Funny.
At 111, some beautiful girls mixed in with mostly average ones. I hate to mention stereotypes, but it was no surprise to me that the Norwegians got so intoxicated they got snubbed by every babe in the place and eventually got thrown out. Being the sensitive American male, instead of jettisoning them I babysat, pushed them into a cab and sent them on their way. Went back in for another look, but nothing caught my eye. It was about 4am, and I realized I was also very drunk, but my poor judgement, horniness and high Kiev expectations sent me to the River Palace, just for a looksee. Five minutes inside I realized (a) this place is pretty empty and (b) not my scene. Went home alone.
Saturday
More touristy things during the day. Met a stunning girl at the perfume store during the day ("I'm looking for a nice perfume for my little sister's birthday") and got her number, but have yet to use it. Later at the Irish Bar I met a college professor from California who seems to be on a parallel trip through Europe. We went again to 111 and again it was packed and again the same unappealing ratio of 8-9 to 6-8. We did, however, zero on two unbelievably beautiful girls, both named Natasha, one blond and one brunette (who might have been Georgian, not sure). We danced for about an hour, talked in broken English and Russian, bought them drinks and then heard the dreaded words "Miy jenat" = "We are married." I didn't believe them but the wedding ring tanlines were unmistakable. They laughed and ran out the door. Heartbreaking. Went home alone.
Three strikes and you're out.
I will be here until Wednesday so I hope this terrible dry spell will end. I had lots of free action in St. Petersburg and Moscow so I'm hoping that all the great things I've read about Kiev will eventually bear fruit. I submit this humble report for your amusement and as a reality check to those who expect everything to be automatic.
Zizz
Uke Boy and Beansed: thanks guys!
Using the ATM is much easier and safer to carry less cash in so I'll do that.
For those of you planning a trip (at least from U.S.) getting a visa is simple. I applied by mail to the San Francisco Ukrainian consulate by printing off the online application. Just read all the instructions carefully and follow them. I figured if I was going to get stuck paying the $100 "application" fee (which is really just a "back atcha" from the Ukrainian government for the U.S's new application fee for foreign visitors) I'd apply for a 5 year multiple entry visa. The cost was $165 total. I received the 5 year tourist visa in about two weeks.
So if you're going to apply and think you might go back, get the 5 year multiple entry visa as the cost isn't that much higher than a single entry.
Congratulations for doing all the miracles together like going to River Palace at 4a.m and hoping to find any girls in the already-deserted-August-Kiev.
You might try to go to Mandarin Bar at 6a.m for a change.
Bez Bezarra
08-02-04, 12:49
Venereal Dizziness VD.
Oo!
So touchy!!
Can't you see, anybody can tell ya, I'm just jealous, that's all.
I wanna work in Ukraine too, you know, but they don't seem to need anymore lazy horndogs.
Feeling quite homesick for the motherland.
Must hang on for a while longer until next opportunity.
Rolly Polly
08-02-04, 13:35
Mangus,
How come you never give the gift of of pictures in my neck of the woods???
By the way...we are looking for someone to run to biggest South Florida escort service now that our leader is on vacation.
Vegamars,
When are you going to contribute something that will be useful to this forum or even to any other forum where you have a presence. For example, I see that in the Istanbul forum today your "useful" telephone numbers were a complete waste of time. For a lot of us, that is no surprise.
Fizz Bang,
I am not sure just what "type" you are looking for but your ailments may have an impact on your attempts. River Palace, and most any other venue, are best from about midnight to 2 or 3 AM. After that, most places are the truly desperate looking for the even more desperate.
By the way, if the two stunners at 111 on Saturday said they were "zenat" they may have been lesbians. The proper term is "zamuzhem" if they are married to a guy. And I hope you understand that here the marriage band is on the right hand not the left as in the USA.
Why don't you call the perfume store girl? If all else fails, pick up the phone and start calling the agencies.
Good luck
I've never had the aim of contributing as giving tons of phone numbers will not help anyone, especially if he's wise enough to tell he got it via internet.
Maybe you have no idea, but the phone numbers of the girls in Istanbul are temporary throughout the year and even throughout the day.
I don't need to prove anything by posting pictures and so on. Besides, they're definitely not like the kind of ordinary photos of ordinary quality on the forum and I wouldn't wanna turn everything upside down all of a sudden.
Vegamars,
Let me get this clear in my mind. In the Istanbul forum you deliberately gave out phone numbers that you now admit were useless when you gave them out. It does place in doubt the truth or accuracy of all of your other contributions.
No one is asking you for pictures or phone numbers here, although I do recall the one picture you posted in this forum was a murky long distance shot of some girl in front of a church. It definitely was not an ordinary picture since we would need a microscope to see the lady's face.
You don't have to prove anything to anyone but it would be nice if you would post something useful sometimes.
Yeah, I admit now, I've made it all up!!
I've been talking about a different Kiev anyway, one totally in my dreams.
Bez Bezarra
08-03-04, 05:45
Ho hum.
Basta perrogi!
Oh Smegma, the only thing more boring than your dreary monger's philosophy is your contrived huffiness.
Yookie, leave him alone. That awesome church girl photo is his life's greatest accomplishment, his ultimate peak and all time personal best. Its a virtual
masterpiece of ignominity, a genuine reflection of the artist himself. Pure unadulterated steaming hot sexy peddled flesh of the worst kind!
Yes, yes, your secret's finally revealed,........FATHER Vega!!
Gasp!!!!!!
Or should I say, your holiness Monsigneur Juan Carlo de la Puta Vega, our patron saint of marzipan!
Hail Mary Halleh-fucking-lueja!!
So I'm afraid you've twisted your last alter boy, and now its time to confess.
MAY THE POWER OF MICE COMPEL YOU!!
DIMI!! OH DIMI!! WHY YOU DO THIS TO ME?? DIMI!!!!
Really though, just teasing you, you know its not anything personal.
Ukes, don't provoke the bear! After all, what in the world would we ever do, if he made good on his threat to suddenly turn everything upside down on us all with extraordinary quality of extraordinary photos. Ukes, do not attempt to clear your mind, do not adjust your TV screen. He who has nothing to prove proves nothing.
Rollo Pollo, este es una aci para ti, mang!
Kiev, stage 2
In my previous post, I reported on my disastrous first three days in Kiev. I was beginning to believe that a pox had been put on me for the terrible things I did to the nice girls of Russia and Latvia. I am pleased to report that my fortunes have reversed.
Sunday
Met some nice guys at the Irish Bar and the three of us decided, against all odds, to see if we could scare up some trouble on a rainy Sunday night in August at 11 pm. Flying blind, we first went to Moda Bar and sent one us down to check it out. Twelve people, five of them guys. We asked the driver to take us someplace happening and he shrugged and tore off to Opium. Closed. Then to Carribean Club and this time I went in to check the scene. Not packed but sixty to seventy people, mostly girls, so in like flint.
Carribean Club has salsa dancing until midnight when it turns into generic pop. Nice place, I highly recommend it for something different than the normal eurodiskoclub. I had been watching this Elisabeth Shue lookalike twirl around in her little white miniskirt for about ten minutes when, remembering cues from this board about being direct, I brazenly walked up and starting dancing about two feet in front of her. Positive response as she turned around and starting grinding her ass into my crotch. My buddies were in shock. Danced and chatted with her for about thirty minutes and got her number before her trollish friends angrily whisked her away in a taxi. Went to River Palace at about 3am and saw nothing I liked and went home.
Monday
I woke up, SMS-ed ''Elisabeth" and asked her to lunch, just a block away from my apartment. By 2pm she was in my bed but no intercourse. This will be a hard nut to crack but she may be the best looking woman I've seen so far in Kiev so I'm willing to wait it out.
SMS-ed "Tania" from the perfume store and we met at Zodiak cafe/bar and shared a drink. By 6pm she was in my bed but no intercourse. Different girl, same story. But let me tell you I'm having the time of my life as these girls are ridiculously hot.
Walked up to Irish Bar and was ready to settle with a Monday beer and a ride back to the apartment. Some expats were headed to, you guessed it, River Palace, midnight. Shit I had been there twice already and didn't like anything I saw, but what the hell. I have read that every girl at RP is working but I don't think that's totally true. Regardless, a room full of very beautiful girls. I think the two near misses I had before in the day had gotten to me and I decided, though I normally only do amateur, to take one of these girls home. I zeroed in on a hot blonde, dressed all in white, face 7 and body 9.5. She wanted $250 and I iced her until she came around to $150, so off we went to my flat.
We both showered and hopped in bed. Smooth and muscular ass and legs that only strippers and dancers seem to possess. She said she only did this once a month, yeah right, to pay cell phone bills. Screwed off and on until 7am and she screamed so much that I thought I was going to get evicted. BBBJ, CIM, DATY. As she left, she gave me back my $50 and said she had "finished" twelve times, which I think means climaxed. Wow, this is a rebate policy I can get behind.
Monday
Saw "Tania" for lunch again and I told her that I had a business meeting at 4pm, not true but I wanted to put the ice on her a little bit. She promptly suggested we go back to my place and, by 3pm, she was riding me like a bronco. 5'5, face 8, body 9, girlfriend material. Booted her out, took a nap and headed to this internet cafe.
I have a date with "Elisabeth" tonight. God give me strength to keep up with this 19-year old wildcat as I'm an old man of 31!
Zizz
Mangus,
I did want to take your advice and ignore our friend Veggie. However, it seems he now has taken things one big step too far. This is his post in today's Istanbul forum:
"If you're experienced enough to select, you can find pretty young girls.
It's true that there are a lot of girls of age 24 and above, but it's also quite possible to find very young first-timers like 16 and 17 years old.
More important of all is how the girl looks and performs rather than the real age."
I may not be reading this right but he seems to endorse child prostitution. Maybe Vegarmars can explain this statement of his much more clearly than he usually does?
No need and no will to explain anything.
No difference between a 16 and a 24 year older, all can be treated as children.
Rolly Polly
08-04-04, 13:07
That comment should get him banned!
Just as expected, support the idea in mind and do it secretly, but never have the guts to reveal on the double-faced and even the triple-faced forum.
Traveller22
08-04-04, 15:18
Just my 2 cents in support of Vegamars.
Maybe I should be bann to write those words but it is just an historical fact. The mistress of Giacomo Casanova himself ( he called her Zaire) when he lived in Russia was 13-14 years old. Casanova was 36 years old at that time. He fell in love with her and they finally broke only because of her jealousy.
So even if the great Casanova should be considered as a monster all the mongers of the world must find another model then.
I found this article on:
http://www.geocities.com/thekyivbeet/june21.html
I thought it might add some light relief after the storm!
Business: New Prostitute Uniform Introduced
KYIV - As a result of consistent pressure from the prostitution lobby, the Ministry of Labor has come out with the new official hooker's uniform. The NGO, "Selected Ukrainian Registered Prostitutes"- or SLURP - has won their battle to reduce the confusion over who is a prostitute and who is not. "Now that the summer is here, as usual all the girls will be dressing up and looking like prostitutes, but really aren't," said SLURP President Olga Slutskaya, "and that ends up hurting our business." Foreign men and Ukrainians alike have, since independence, been confused over who is and who is not working. The result has been a loss of revenue for the legitimate hookers, and moments of embarrassment for regular Ukrainian girls who are incorrectly solicited by Johns. "This one girl slapped me upside my head when I asked her how much," said Eric Longstreet, a long-time ex-pat in Kyiv, "and I was so frazzled that I forgot about the whole thing for that night." The new uniform will be an ensemble outfit consisting of Stilleto heels, a black spandex mini-skirt, low-cut lace top and a yellow belt. Effective immediately, any girl that is wearing this outfit in public and is solicited, must accept the offer from the John or be faced with a 1000 Hr. fine from the authorities. Natasha (refused to give her last name) commenting on the new uniform toldThe Beet, I'm going to have to be careful this summer, or I'll ending up sleeping with more guys than necessary." The new regulations are not expected to affect American or Canadian women.
Bez Bezarra
08-06-04, 03:21
Aw jesus, I'm getting a fucking headache over here.
I can't understand anything you bastards are kelping about.
Its fucking creepy, I mean, some people say, if the girl sucks your blood,
then she'll try to sell you down the river.
So who fucking cares, you might as well set a big pile of money on fire.
Its always a bad decision when you're horny.
Just go and [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) all over a meat popsicle.
I'm not a senior member but why is it that people here choose to fight in public postings rather than in PMs? I don't really get why everyone should be exposed to these silly little rebutall=after- rebutalls.
Dear Zizz Bang,
I am laughing my ass off on seeing your note on the refund policy. I have never ever heard anything as wild as that. May the force be with you.
Experienced Ukraine / Russia Mongers,
First off let me congratulate you all for the wonderful work. I have been a passive member for a long time and enjoyed the posts. So far there hasn't been anything significant to report of.
I am a very adventurous person as far as going to different countries goes. But on the issue of mongering, I feel a little out of place if money is not the only medium of negotiation.
I am assuming that most of you are white americans. So the recent backlash against folks from the middle east would not be an issue. I am from India but I am a Sikh . Due to the closeness of my land to the arab world, the dress is a bit influenced by theirs. Other than that I do not even have the basic understanding of Islam.
My mind usually works like everyone here but my appearence confuses most people. I usually have a turban on and my beard and moustage sometimes make people shy away. usually as a tourist or on business, it does not affect me. And in a few minutes the other person gets comfortable talking to me.
But I am assuming that from a girls's point of view ( the semi professional ones in clubs), it would be illogical to warm up to a tall , 200lbs indian. On the contrary, giving directions to a tourist is a relatively risk free / effort free thing.
I have very little info about the dress code for men in Russia / Ukraine but my russian friends in new york look like the regular city people. Please advise if my fears are ill founded or not.
Sincere advise highly appreciated.
Royal21 - the reality is that if you do not look european but are traveling into Ukraine be prepared a.) to be stopped by the plice rather often who will ask for your papers trying to figure a way to scam $ from you (always carry but safely carry your passport with you...). In the big cities where there are a lot of tourists though despite the rather likely police stopping you should be OK. I've heard of skinheads but I think it's more in Russia than in Ukraine, at least in Kiev and Odessa.... How people dress...? Well, dress in black or gray clothing, yes that's the general extent of colors for males...perhaps a nice drak brown or black leather (not suede) jacket... nice but not flashy (unless you work for the mob)...If you wear sunglasses make sure they';re not too fancy - if they are really glitzy it's guanteed that walking some stupid cop there will try and squeeze you for money... If I were you I'd skip jewelry of any kind since you'll be a target. I look like them and thus do not stand out... In your case you simply will stand out...and you'll just ahve to be wary in general.... If you plan out your trip you should be OK though...
Rendorseg
Thank you rendorseg. I did not think about the police angle at all. Its definately better to be prepared than being sorry. But how is the scene in clubs and the attitude of women in general to someone who looks like me?
I was in turkey last year, i enjoyed the trip a lot. But when i went to the club in Serenda Hotel the security just would not let me go in with my turban. It seems in their culture only the sultan wears a turban. It took a lot of convincing on my part that i was not imitating the sultan and that i cannot remove my turban either.
That reaction kind of surprised me. It happened only in Serenda which supposedly is the best known place to pick up working girls. Just want to be mentally prepared this time, that all. I surely am not going to give up mongering because of my appearence :-)
Hi Royal,
Yeah, you'll stand out, but in my humble opinion I found Kyiv very safe. Let me say straight away I'm white, but hung around with an Indian (Hindu) and a black guy for a while in my trip.
Some people are curious, and that can be a good thing as they assured me, but don't get curious confused with distrust.
There is a small amount of ignorance, but I've never heard of it manifesting itself in violence or robbery. As rendorseg wrote, visible signs of affluence are far more likely to result in attention.
BTW - Sikhs are great!! Be brave, go, enjoy, then write!
Royal - what about the clubs... well it depends where you go when.... usually certain Kiev clubs are jammed but now all the chicas are reportedly down south... funny thing is that when I've been in the beach areas in the south the weather's been bad and the clubs empty... the ones I found were snooty, snobby... I think this was really a function of the season not being right (the working girls were in school or back in Kiev...) Well, yes I did have experiences...
I honestly think that this is the way you will 100% have a good time: go to captain69's website or perhaps here you'll find the web address for the approx 5 high end escort companies... find 2-3 of the girls who turn you on... make an appointment with them for the shortest time... that way the agency will rip you off for the least amount. then propose to be with the girl(s) on your own without the agency... usually it works like a charm and the girls tend to be well 'trained' in sexual arts...
I'll be seeing one of my lovelies I hooked up with a few months ago (it was early spring, the clubs were dead and the tochkas were too slimy) via an agency (paid them short time, got her phone no.) when I come out to Odessa again in September...
Anyways, unless you'll be there a long time I'd hedge your bets.
Good luck!
redorseg
Does anyone have experience with Ksusha escort (www.ksusha-escort.com) ?
Captain69 claims that pics are fake and some guys were ripped off, paid for travel expenses and girl didn't show up.
I sent a girl a mail. She replied. When I asked for more pics (to prove that she is indeed the girl on web site), no more reply.
Thank you Knight, rendorseg.
I love curosity, especially from the fairer sex. Its a wonderful way to get past the initial hi and hello.
I am working on taking a holiday in sep/oct . The world is such a big and interesting place. Soviet block always interested me and the beauty there is breath taking. ( I wish you a good time with your lovelies, rendorseg). But I am researching other places too. Usually the more off beat the place, the more it interests me.
From the posts here, I am confused about the whole cell phone number deal.
1. What makes the girl give out her cell phone number to any one walking on the street after 2 minutes of talking?
2. How do you guys manage all those numbers? Do you remember which number is which girls? where you met her and how she looked like? (I do see scope for a small pda database to store all that information)
3. Does getting a number mean, you can call her whenever for whatever? I am sure the interpretation will differ from person to person but what is the consensus?
4. How do i get a cell phone if i am there for a week? (any prepaid services?)
Thanks for all the wonderful replies and reports.
rendorseg,
You mentioned "toshka's", in your last report. Do "toshka's", exist in Kiev and the Ukraine? I thought they were just something you find in Moscow?
Ludo - Like I said the ones that do exist are not good at all> a cabbie once hustled me over to one in Odessa but the selection was slim pickin's skanky, I went back again one more time and it was the same. Don't know 'bout Kiev though.
Royal21,
Tusi aajao Ukraine yaar. koi darne sharne di gal ee nai hain. din mein sharab hor raat de shabab de naal aish keega ;)
Raj Karega Khalsa!
P.S. for all non Punjabi speaking people, the above line translates as, " royal21, dont be scared of Ukraine, just hop over, and you shall be treated to wine in the day and women in the night".
I'm almost certain there are no tochkas in Kyiv. Yes one exists in Odessa, but only at the docks, for sea-faring types who've been on the waves too long to be choosy.
Moscow is the tochka king, and well worth a visit.
I have the pleasure to be in Kiev end of the month. I was searching a hotel or apartment. All hotels are redicolous expansive but I found Hotel DNIPRO which offers for this period against their website rates of $ 70.00. Can anyone recommend this hotel? Is it GFE?
Thanks for advice Ermano69
Royal 21
I'm not sure about buying a phone, but I have been told you can get a sim card for $10. As long as you have a dual band phone I think it should work. Can anyone else confirm?
Ermano69
Dnipr hotel is 200 meters from the centre of Kiev.Girlfriendly.
Just look further on the website.
Willam
70$ a night. Expect the worst dude. I’ve paid 150$ a night (suite) and was disappointed with the quality and facilities.
No internet connection in the room but you can use the internet in the lobby (10$ per hour)
Girls from Modabar/RP wouldn't take less then 200$ (first they ask where you stay then tell you how much) the security guy (hotel) takes 50-100$ when they leave. It was hard work to get the girls to agree on 150$ a night.
One of the girls visited my room told me about the covert cameras in the room (in smoke detectors) don't know if it true or not but hey, who fucking cares? They can watch and wank
Mobile phones-get a UMC sim-sim card (very popular) costs 60 grivnas inc. 25 grivnas worth of calls
Ermano69
If you are going there then why not get an appartment, easy to come and go with whome ever you please. It makes things easy. I learned this the hard way before I found this board. Well good luck with the trip and all. Ukraine is a nice place, might have to live there. Cause as we all know a few weeks just is not enough time.
Gents, will be in Kiev from 17th to 23rd. If anyone else will be there concurrently drop me a PM and we'll grab a beer.
Zizz Bang: Great reports man, you have a very enjoyable writing style! I will try the Caribbean club as Europop music can get old for me. I am from Vegas originally too, and get back there regularly. With the ladies as they are in Vegas (and the dreadful paid scene), I can see why you go to the Ukraine!
Does anyone know if there are any private apartments in Kiev where you can choose a dyev from a lineup and bang them for $50 an hour?
Year 2005
gia.com.ua ( they've got an apatment ) $50-70 for an hour
uaescort.com $40-60 for the hour
loveme.ru free for all times
P.S. You can accept the pictures or the websites to be fake, but they've all been tested and worth trying.
I will be in Kiev next month. Is there any newspaper with private ad like we can find in CZ-ANNONCE ? Can someone suggest one good disco club in Kiev where amateur girl can be found?
Thanks
Hey Mangus, thanks for the advice. By the way, great looking dyev, I hope you whipped her into shape?
Anyway, I've just read about a club called the "RestTown", has anybody had any experiences there and how much does it cost?
Guys,
After much research i have decided upon kiev as my next mongering trip. I'll be there from the 28th august for about a week. I'll bec checking out all the regular joints PM if anyone wants to hook up
Ludo, this is a rarity - I agree with Vegamars, and disagree with the illustrious Mangus Man! On my last visit $50 for an hour GFE was pretty standard, but no cheaper for the second hour, so $100 for 2 hours was looking pretty expensive when an all-nighter can be had for not much more if you treat the girl well, bide your time, and bargain well!
Kyiv Post (free in hotels, dual language paper) has quite a few ads. The bigger, photo ads are generally all different numbers, but 8 out of the 10 are the same girl answering, and all of the ads have same price, so it's only worth ringing one of these. Demand they send 2 girls and you pick best and pay taxi for the one you don't want to keep.
Also, there are some private classified ads in the same paper, but that's more hit and miss, but likely to be cheaper for 2 hour meetings etc. Vegamars mentioned the reliable escort agencies.
Rest Town is worth avoiding though in my opinion. It takes an age to get there from the centre. The heyday for this place was probably 5 years ago. The girls have gone down hill on the looks rapidly in recent months (only about 2 you'd really want to bed), and there's not even any nude floorshow. The sex is very limited (no owo, anal) compared to R.Palace girls, and the cost not good either. Most annoyingly on my last visit they keep you waiting so long before letting you into a room with your girl that you're more or less obliged to buy them and you drinks to while away the time. Most disappointing thing of my whole Ukraine experiences has to be Rest Town.
Guys,
i'll be heading over to Kiev from 28th august for 9 days of mongering. I'll be hitting all the regular joints and trying my luck in the malls etc. If anyone would like to hook up for a few beers etc let me know.
I'm just gonna miss you Prince. Will be in Kiev 17-23. I'll try to save a few for ya! :-)
http://www.lovelygirls.org
Anybody know this agency?
Really working with real girl or is a fake agency?
Thanks
Another good way to get started for first-timers or hesitators for reasonable charges is to get in touch with the guide-servicers who will do everything for you--renting apartments, providing interpreters, guiding through town, etc.
Of course, they're aware of the reason you contact them, so just ask for the guide of your dreams.
meta-ukraine.com is a reliable source for this purpose and many others.
Bez Bezarra
08-17-04, 12:05
Knight.
This one's for you.
Question?
How easy to buy Viagra in Ukraine? And, what are the prices?
Thanks.
Member #2467
08-18-04, 20:32
I will be in Kiev the first week of October and would appreciate any information on some semi-pro. Also, wondering if the Premier Palace is girl friendly?
lovelygirls.org and odessaescort.tk are both unreliable.
Just try escort.odessa.ua , kievescort.com , gia.com.ua ,
kiev-x.com and starsfromheaven.co.uk if you have to use one.
Here is my first report on the ground here in Kiev.
Yes, the women here are very hot! You don't see fat girls here and they are all dressing for some serious advertising. To use Zizz Bang's accurate comment, they are ridiculously hot and I'm pretty picky. I think most of them want to meet western guys, the only issue is one of communication. If you speak Russian and English you are set. If you only speak English and no Russian it's going to be more work because many girls don't speak English at all, or speak only a little and are shy about it until they become more comfortable with you. If you want freebies you're just going to have to say hello to them, see who answers in English, and simply work the percentages. A couple male friends I talked to said that speaking English is very hip here and it will get you noticed. I can confirm this.
I speak about three words in Russian (da, nyet (obvious) and spassiba which is "thank you"). I think many are impressed that I know even that much! For me Go For It's advice to use Friendfinder to locate some friends/guides/freebies was very helpful to me. Although I only started using FF about a month before my trip I was able to correspond with many ladies, several of whom spoke good english. These I spoke with on the phone a couple times, and then arranged meetings. I won't repeat his very detailed instructions on how to do this, so see his earlier posts. For reference purposes I'm late 30s and relatively good looking.
YMMV but here's what happened for me so far. A couple days before my trip I met this russian girl living in Ireland that I met on FF. She was early 20s, blond, very hot body, and of course spoke great English. She had emailed me first on FF to say that she was interested in me! We had exchanged emails, pictures, and a couple short phone calls. First date basically just got to know each other and some hot kissing, etc. I asked her to go back to my apt. but didn't push when she said another time. Second date next night was quick drink and back to my apt. where she kept me up all night! Actually I really like this girl and plan to see her again after my return from Kiev. Anyway as a result of this had to catch the early flight on 2 hours sleep so I was pretty bushed.
Kiev immigration and customs takes forever and they are definitely old-school Soviet attitude. I spent at least an hour standing in a huge line for immigration, and then was asked for who invited me to Kiev, their address, etc. which was all info that wasn't required for me as an American. However I dutifully complied handing them the paper from uaapartments.com without comment or complaint as I do not think that would be wise. This made the agent happy as I guess this gave her something to fill in the blanks on her computer with. Who knows! Customs was even worse as I got to the head of the line twice only to have the agent simply close his booth and walk off. After finally getting to an agent my declaration of about US$2000 wasn't a problem and I was out of there swifly after that.
Spent the rest of the day getting essentials and meeting two guys from uaapartments.com who are very cool. Dmitri (assistant) and Vladimir (manager) are both in their 20s and really great to work with. A few words on uaapartments.com. The apt was as advertised. Before arriving I told them that I needed a concierge-type service (like Zergut had) where I could call them for whatever I needed. I also told them I wanted to rent a cell phone (US$10/day + $.20/min. for usage) and to be picked up at the airport. This all went perfectly. I was met by a driver holding a sign with my name at the airport arrivals. He promptly called Dmitri and gave me the phone and Dmitri explained that the driver didn't speak English but would take me to my apt. where he would meet me. Once there Dmitri explained how to use the mobile, took me shopping at the grocery store for food and booze, and gave me his and Vladimir's personal cell phone numbers that I could call anytime. Then both guys took me to lunch at a local Ukrainian restaurant (sorry, don't remember the name) where the food was good and cheap. Beers for three and food for me came to less than US$10! Crazy! Anyway these guys told me if I had any problems (such as being stopped by the militia) or needed a car, guide, translator, etc. to call them. Can't recommend highly enough! My apt. was a 2 bedroom right off Independence Square for $89/night. Very centrally located.
Was really just blasted tired from my hot blond babe, flights, etc. but just couldn't resist going to River Palace to see if all the posts here were accurate. They are. Got there about 10pm which was too early but wanted to have dinner. They have english menus and pretty good food. I had a decent salmon dinner and beer while watching the live band play for $10! The atmosphere was relaxed and nice and the band did the best job they could singing English songs everybody would know.
During dinner I sat next to a table full of Russian guys where I observed something about why these girls are so submissive. There was one big, stocky, ugly Russian guy who just barked orders at the poor waitresses leering and making faces at them all the while. It was almost like the guy was sneering at them and while tallking gave them looks indicating he thought they were stupid, slow, etc. It just blew me away watching this over and over. These waitresses just jumped to serve the guy and he just treated them like garbage. I noticed that my polite western manner very much impressed my waitress who just went overboard trying to give me good service. She was actually decent looking and as I munched I thought she was likely to be the best chick in the whole place for a girl friend because she didn't seem jaded like many of the super-hotties in the disco.
Anyway hit the disco about 11pm and boy did it fill up. I guess it was ladies night and the girl/guy ratio was probably 5:1 in my favor! These girls were just unbelievably hot and dressed to kill. Knowing all of them were for sale I took my time choosing. Eventually I chose an extremely hot blond girl, probably mid-late 20s with a really knockout figure and decently pretty face. Unfortunately she didn't speak very good English and after an hour or so of buying drinks, dancing, talking with her and her friend (who did speak good English) I realized I backed the wrong horse. She really wasn't into it like I would like and I just wasn't getting those positive vibes that usually mean a great time lies ahead. When I told her I had to leave soon she quickly suggested US$250 which I laughed at (thanks guys for that tidbit of advice) and she instantly went down to $150 and also suggested $100 each for her and her friend together. By this time I wasn't that interested and told her $50 and I'd give her more if I was happy. She didn't want to do this and I didn't want to go up, so we parted company. At 1am there were still plenty of unescorted hotties in the place but by this time I could barely see straight with fatigue so I left, fell into bed and slept 10 hours.
Next day wandered around Independence Square just getting the feel. Many pretty girls dressed to kill walking to and fro, and plenty of office girl types heading to the metro at the end of the square. I stopped to say hello to a couple of the best-of-the-best but neither spoke English. Then had an appointment to meet with another of my FF girls who spoke really good English. We met in front of the conveniently-located MacDonalds and she promptly gave me a walking tour of the whole area. She was definitely interested in moving the relationship forward but I wasn't really sure she was my type. Even so we went to dinner at Mambo's (my selection which she confirmed was a good place) which is a nice tourist-type restaurant serving Mexican, Spanish, Argentinian food. We had cocktails and a full 3 course dinner for about US$60 which seemed a lot after my previous restaurant encounters but I didn't complain because the food and atmosphere were great. And after all, the same meal in Dublin would have easily run me over $100. After the meal I decided I really didn't want to know the girl any further so I told her I needed to get some sleep.
One amusing bit is while we were waiting for a cab I recalled that you could just flag down any passing car for a ride so I did so. She jumped right in to negotiate a fare of 20 grivnas which is about US$4 to take us both home to our respective apts. which were in separate directions. Of course the driver didn't speak a word of English so she explained where I lived, etc. and how to get there. I had a feeling that the guy wasn't going to know how to get me where I wanted to go but I decided I was curious to see what would happen anyway. He got her home fine and then after awhile of driving broke out his map because he wasn't sure where he was going. I let him muse over it for awhile and then stuck my finger on the spot where my apt. was. He drove some more and then stopped again to consult the map. Then asked a few people he passed, and then after awhile actually stopped, got out, and asked a taxi driver. He then found the correct street and I pointed out my apt.
There are nice some looking women featured from the Ukraine on this FriendFinder website but to me it seems a very pricey. I signed up an hour ago but found if you perform a search and want to see a person's details, it says you have "used up your limit." Absolute bollocks, i haven't viewed one yet and I am very wary of internet companies that operate this way.
Mind you, if you make out with a hottie for free from using this website, I suppose it actually works good value.
http://www.sim-sim.com/
There is a shop near a restuarant in International departures. ( about center of the airport) The cards (SIM\Minutes) are standard rate and you can activate them there. Of course you can also find them all over the country.
Calling party pays for a call within Ukraine to your mobile, but a call you place can be a bit pricey. International incoming or outgoing is very expensive, best left to a land-line and local calling card. Caller ID is hit and miss from outside and inside Ukraine. (works perfect from another mobile)
Since the minutes generally only last for 3-6 months, I found buying smaller pre-paid denominations to work best. This way you can simply activate more minutes upon arrival if you are away from Ukraine for an extended period.
http://www.sim-sim.com/eng/howmuch1.htm
For voicemail, you have the option of setting the default to English. (if you have the service) I never set mine up, as I knew everyone who would be calling me.
http://www.sim-sim.com/eng/useful1.htm
Many young Ukrainians (except working girls) don't have mobiles due to the cost, but I always ask others to call me.
I also became very dependant on SMS. Its easier for English as a Second language (ESL friends to understand) and its far cheaper than a voice call.
GSM Service within Ukraine is excellent, including the Metro. Almost no service on cross country train routes though. All the big carriers have roaming agreements in Ukraine if you are okay with $2-5 a minute and feel you must use your Mobile from home. (I use AT&T, T-Mobile and 02)
I have several unlocked GSM phones I use on travel.
A few clarifications that need to be pointed out:
99% of the girls older than 16 have mobile phones and Ukraine is one of the leading countries in Europe for the usage of mobiles.
Almost all the best-looking-girls in Kiev have the knowledge of English, at least to some extent enough to communicate.
However, of course they're clever enough to pretend not to speak a word of English if they don't like your attitude or if they're just not in the mood.
Otherwise, a simple hello would be more than enough to start up a conversation.
Just Do It
08-20-04, 17:43
Bob
Great report makes me wish I was back in Kiev! Oh well next spring will have to do. I am glad the FF route is working! Nothing quite like an amatures to get things interesting!
Looking foreword to more reports.
JDI
Bob dobbs,
Thanks for the update. it's much appreciated as I am traveling over next week. are you reporting from an internet cafe? If so what is the location and how much does it cost?
What did you find the dress code to be like in RP. I like to dress smart but casual i.e. jeans / trainers / blazer would this cause any entry problems?
Anyone:
To save a bit of money I have applied for a private visa and included the address of the agent that I am getting the accomadation from. I've just read Bob Dobb was asked for papers to prove his invitation. Is this something that I need if I have a privat visa?
EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to capitalize the word "I". To avoid future delays, please use a capital "I" to refer to yourself in future reports. Thanks!
Prince2
Last time I was at RP I had on jeans,nice shirt and a nice pair of shoes, they are picky on shoes as I found out, no kind of sport shoes allowed. I found that out the hard way. Yes I got turned away my first time there on account of my shoes. Oh well. Live and learn. It was before I found out about this forum.
Well good luck wish I was there.
BoB Dobbs-
Thanks the very excellent report.
Wondering how the rest of your trip went. Specifically, did you exceed the cash limit on your departure or did customs also provide a positive experience ?
TIA
The best internet cafe I found was right around the corner from TGI Friday's on Kreschatik. Ask for the air-conditioned room because the other room on the left can be sweltering in the summer.
I'm certainly no expert but I do believe that I hit on a golden rule for meeting non-pro's in Slavic states that worked for me in Kiev, Odessa and throughout Russia over and over again: Do as much as you can to differentiate yourself from (a) the stereotypical Russian man and (b) the stereotypical ugly American (or other Westerner).
Examples:
Don't rubberneck or gawk at the ridiculously beautiful women all around you.
Don't drink anywhere close to excess. Slavic women take inventory of this.
Be assertive but not rude. Confidant but not arrogant. Polite but not aloof. When talking with friends, laugh and smile as much as possible, but don't look crazy. Dress nicely but don't try to outdo the women, who want to be the center of attention. Shine your shoes. No shorts.
Zizz
Kiev - I will be there Sept 1 - 3
Hey!? - if anyone's in town let's hook up.
Perhaps we can go to River Palance together - never been there....
I'll be en route to Odessa & Lvov...
Oh, about cell phones, I go to Ukriane min 2x/year thus I wonder which is better --->
renting (where/how?) vs buying a local cell phone (I guess pop in one of those chips when there then...)
Rendorseg
Armorer,
Thanks for the tip. It's much appreciated as I hate wearing shoes so no doubt I would have been turned away. only 3 days to go before I hit Kiev. I can't wait!
EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to add standard capitalization throughout the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using the "chat room" style of writing with no capital lettering. Thanks!
Well done Zizz, excellent observation
After the long Holiday weekend , might have had something to do with this.
Two Blasts Rock Market in Ukraine Capital, 13 Hurt
http://www.publicbroadcasting.net/wfae/news.newsmain?action=article&ARTICLE_ID=675369
Be careful everyone. We all take risks just staying home, but being alert anywhere you go is always a good thing.
I remember a similar situation a week before I went to Thailand a few years ago. It can be un nerving, but life goes on.
I must point out that I felt very safe in Ukraine and would go back tomorrow if I had the time and a ticket.
Terrorist blasts in Ukraine? Hah! The FSB (previously was called KGB) would kick the bejeezus out of AlQueda guys in no time, trust me... I'm friends with an FSB officer - they do not mess around, full stop.
Just a little difference between Ukraine and Russia...
Watch out what's going on and what's probably gonna happen around Moscow nowadays..
Thanks MM - that's gonna cheer us all up!!!!!
Be safe everyone!
NeilSydney
08-25-04, 16:40
Anyone wishing to meet up in Kiev and scout around together, please PM me.
I will be here until the end of this weekend, i.e. end of August.
Sinanju Master
08-26-04, 02:34
Mangus Man
"Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we may die", eh? I KNEW there was a reason I keep reading your posts! A dude after my own heart! HOWEVER, if drinking means imbibing Foster's Lager, I'll pass thank you...
What person in their right mind flys half way around the world to find women ?
Unfortunately I am one of them. Temptation can't be ignored.
So other than Santa Claus, (milk and no cookies) we go to these places far from home, enrich these women in someway (Trick or Treat). We keep injecting into the female economy until we run out of money or time. Then we come home, recharge and start over again.
I would say that the risk of having the little head fall off, is greater than any bomb or bodily threat.
There are risks in Life. We just take the necessary ones and try to be safe taking the risks we do willingly.
Zaks Zipper
08-26-04, 12:08
Gentleman,
I have noticed that there has been a definite tendency recently to descend into, apparently senile commentary, on just about anything but mongering
Could it be a bad case of syphilis or perhaps some of the senior members are getting on.
Bottom line, gentleman, is that the site will loose it's value, should this continue. Lets get back to subject, shall we?
All the flights in CIS, whether domestic or international, are much safer than those in the States, especially with those oldest Boeings on the domestic lines.
The rest is just a story of dreams.
As the mention of FriendFinder. I was wondering what other sites or methods folks have found to meet girls
I frequently use the free hospitalityclub.com to get INTEL on places I am thinking of visiting. Folks are very friendly, but mostly very young students.
http://www.plentyoffish.com/ a free site
Many dating sites are a bit pricey, so opinions are valuable. Free sites typically have few girls or not desired quality.
A very real difference is a frequent girl's desire to have a serial relationship, its often all or nothing even if you have never met. The don't want to "waste time" being friends, they want a long term thing. They seem to really want what they have difficulty finding at home. (sounds familiar)
I know that the Kiev Times often lists meetings or events that might offer potential.
English Language Clubs.
Dating events to meet women interested in western men. (a Foreign Affair had a recent open invite to western men)
Bars and restuarants with higher liklihood of meeting women. Even shops and Metro stops are possible.
Hoping Jackson will allow comments about specific dating or introduction sites.
Doctor_Skank
08-27-04, 09:13
Tupolev: it's the only way to fly.
Vegamars, our resident airline safety expert, again chooses to ignore facts and instead rely on hearsay from the Turkish board of transportation safety, now currently being directed by the former Iraqi information minister.
Although Aeroflot flies modern Boeing and Airbus planes on most international routes, on domestic routes Aeroflot, Aerosvit, Pulkovo, Krasair and the dozens of other no-name airlines in CIS (your beacon of airline safety) fly whatever plane manages to get itself off of the ground on any particular day. Seen all those cannabilized Tu-134, Tu-154 and Ilyushin fuselage shells littering the Russian and Ukrainian airport of your choice? More or less still functioning pieces of them have been somehow assimilated into the planes we happily board in pursuit of the Ukraine's only true natural resource.
So while nervously chewing your fingernails on your death-defying Cleveland-Des Moines route, do say a prayer for me on approach to Donetsk, where I plan to visit a few of those underground coal mines everyone has been raving about before meeting my skinny straw-haired buck-toothed dream girl and her two illegitimate children.
The domestic flights in the States full of old, worn-out, questionable Boeings are statistically( I mean the real figures and not those biased,unrealistic ones) are one of the worst in the world in terms of safety and convenience.
Nothing to be ashamed of or to take personally.
Just a part of the world of great contradictions out there.
Doctor_Skank
08-27-04, 11:06
Vegamars:
Thankfully I am very difficult to offend as I have been to and lived in enough different countries to realize everything is relative, but the aging fleet of Soviet era aircraft that still carries the bulk of CIS travellers to domestic locations is among the world's worst and truly in worse shape than the aircraft operating in the majority of the American fleet.
The Slavic soul believes in fate, as do I, so none of that worries me.
"Just a part of the world of great contradictions out there."
Do I detect some vaxocentrism ? I knew syndicaiting the X-files would have an effect ; )
And who invented the Internet ?
One thing for sure, the women are hot in EE.
The Beatles did not make up a contradiction.
Long Live Romantic Tourism.
It's just an observation based on a wider objective point of view, nothing more.
Then, you can also ask:
Who has invaded the space first?
And who's gonna land on the moon first?
vega- wasn't trying slam you on the internet. if you visit most countries government agencies that address the area, they essentially claim to have done that.
mm-
i think i'd prefer to die for straw hair and buck teeth, if not in bed with it.
i must admit i do have a fancy for the newer high speed train service in russia and ukraine. just home the tracks hold up.
one thing is un-questioned: the ee has more efficient and affordable mass transit than anywhere else. despite money, technology and sometimes negative customer service.., their on-time performance and convenience is the best in the world.
Goldfinger
08-27-04, 16:20
Landing at a Ukrainian airport is quite an experience. They look really busy until you get closer and realise some planes have wings hanging off and have been pushed to the side. Favorite sight was the five bi-planes at Odessa which must have pre-dated the Great Patriotic War. I had a t-shirt on, as I thought I was going to a beach resort for a summer holiday, and the bus dropped us off by the gate and I couldn't believe I had to wait in the driving rain for my bags as they don't have an arrivals hall!
Roger Mellie
08-28-04, 09:30
I thought Al Gore invented the internet
Roger Mellie
08-28-04, 09:44
Vegamars,
While yes a lot of the old Boeings (727s) in the states are indeed very old (I think the last 727 was made in 1984), the thing that I hate about flying in the states is the smaller and older DC-9s around (rebranded as MD80s to make them sound more modern). Those things are almost prehistoric. American Airlines in particular has millions of these old 1960s and 1970s fossils. But they arent Boeings. But they are maintained.
Unless you are flying with a major airline in the CIS (Aeroflot, Sibir, Aerosvit etc) then you are taking chances to some degree. If you get in a Tu-134 of VolgaAeroExpress, or Air Bashkirtostan then you have to accept that its not going to be state of the art of safety.
Best bet is to just fly with the major airlines.
Lets let this one rest. The US has the youngest average commercial aviation fleet in the world. The years shortly before and after 911 was a record for new aircraft buys with US Airlines.
Americans won't fly old planes, much less prop planes, (prop planes are safer mechanically and aeronautical) which is why CRJ is now king. If you get a front seat, you can look directly up the attendant's skirt. Aeroflot and Aerosvit fly newer 777s and Brazilias (many planes designed by Boeing) respectively on international routes for that same reason.
A second reason is noise abatement, those old noisy TU aircraft would never be permitted in the US. Many airlines had to buy newer planes.
ATA has driven itself almost bankrupt buying new planes.
MD-80s are actually a very good plane, with thicker metal skin and less glue than Boeing. Thicker rivets. Now owned by Boeing. I don't like them cause they are too narrow body. This affords a poor view of a flight attendants legs from an aisle seat. I prefer a 737-ER, 747-400 or 777.
The few 727s flown in the US are mostly Federal Express and a few contract carriers. The rest are elsewhere or sitting in an Arizona boneyard.
The oldest fleet is owned by Northwest Airlines , who takes delivery of enough new planes in the next two years to place them closer to the middle of the big six.
Why do I know so much about this ? I used to be an aircraft overhaul mechanic for Lockheed. Fly over 100K a year and own part of an airline in Cambodia..., with a few 7 year old Boeings. I also have a travel agent credential.
The oldest Boeings fly in South America and Africa, while most of the worlds older Boeing aircraft fly airfreight.
I did fly on a L1011 on a charter about a week before it crashed in Germany, so I am partial to those metal patches all over the wings on those Tupolevs.
I can say I am more afraid of older Airbus aircraft, as the design has shown some engineering failures as early boeing and Tupelov designs have. But the TU aircraft have proven their metal.
Airbus is now the world leader and hope to fly a A380 super-Jumbo after their first year in the air.
The area of concern for Eastern European airlines isn't the aircraft, its the process...security screening, lack of permiter fencing, waist deep weeds, no background checks on key positions. and forested runways.., no doppler radar., aircrews who give tours of the cockpit in-flight.
EE is maybe behind in some areas, but it is getting better very rapidly. Overall, probably about where much of the west was in 2000 in most areas.
Roger Mellie
08-28-04, 10:32
I have to say while I dont find the interior of the average Tu-154 overly appealing, I have no qualms about flying in them, especially if it is one of the major airlines. The Tu-134s on the other hand, give me the creeps.
But beansed, you cant seriously be saying the US commercial fleet is younger than the average Western European fleet, or Middle eastern fleet, or Singaporean fleet.
Singapore Airlines has the youngest fleet in the world, but based on country.., Japan and the US are very close. Europe is close, but Europe had Economic problems earlier with their airlines, which resulted in slower new aircraft acquisitions.
Most of the newer aircraft in Europe are Airbus, of which concerns have already been mentioned.
I don't like the A319 or 320 as much, but mostly because of the grunts and groans they make.
Roger Mellie
08-28-04, 10:48
If we are going to put this to bed, we need to bed down the right info: Airline fleet average age:
Emirates: 3 years
Singapore: 5 years
Austrian Airlines: 5.4 years
Swiss: 5.6 years
Easyjet: 5.7 years
British Airways: 7.5 years
United: 8.8 years
AA: 10.5 years
Delta: 11.2 years
Northwest: 20.2 years
IATA fleet (global average) 14.4 years
African / South American Average: 16 years (and rising)
North American Average: 13 years (and rising)
European Average: 8.5 years (and falling)
Asian Average: 8 years (and falling)
Gentlemen, aerogeeks, others,
Any chance of information on bought sex in the Ukraine? Or must we now look for information about prostitutes on some plane spotters' site?
The average age of the fleet doesn't mean everything, although it's an important factor.
The brand-new Boeings or some others from Europe( remember the one from Switzerland for instance) don't reflect any kind of safety or reliability.
Especially for the severe weather conditions of the domestic flights throughout EE, the current airvehicles are preferred deliberately for safety conditions, though the technology is not that up-to-date.
Keep in mind that there's not always a one-to-one
correspondence between high technology and safety conditions.
For some discreet action, let's fly on to prosex.com.ua and
kievgirls.in.net.ua
changing subjects...
Guys - I will be bringing a small stereo in a moderate size box in for an amigo in Ukraine. If I bring it with me as luggage which would show it being a stereol and/or if I wrap it in inconspicuous brown paper do you think the customs bastards will give me heck at Kiev/KBP?
Or perhaps I should take it out of the box and pack it in my suitcase...?
Thoughts/experiences appreciated.
thanks!
Rendorseg
Bez Bezarra
08-29-04, 13:09
Rendo.
They always ask, "Are you bringing any gifts?" to get you to pay tariff.
If it didn't cost that much, then maybe they'll only ask you for a few $.
If you stash it in your suitcase and say no, you're right, they'll probably just
ignore it.
Ukrainians are always bringing in a bunch of stuff, don't know what
they get stuck paying, though I never saw anyone pay, just argue a lot.
Thanks Mangus
Now I know how to pack my suitcase which I gotta do today!
Ya, now I recall something about the 'gift' question... their rude 'show me your money' question always jars me.
Rendorseg
Live in Kyev,
Well I have finally managed to get over here and what a feast it has been. the earlier posts about khreschatyk street over the weekend are absolutely true. The girls wear some of the shortest skirts I have ever seen! I found that many girls that are interested in having some fun sit on the benches waiting to be chatted up. I have lucked out and found a local guide who does all the introductions and started the ball rolling. in one evening I managed to get 10 numbers with very little effort. time will tell if anything comes from them.
For those of you coming out here with a bit of time on your hands I definately think that is the way to. I checked out RP and found it to be a bit disapointing. I got there at 11pm and by about 12pm there were about 40 girls of which I would say 10 were to my liking. However as expected they were very professional in there attitude and i doubt the GFE would have been available. 150 bucks was the poening offer of all the gilrs I talked to. FYI Tuesdays / Wednesdays is free entry for gilrs b4 11pm.
EDITOR's NOTE: Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to capitalize the word "I". To avoid future delays, please use a capital "I" to refer to yourself in future reports. Thanks!
I thought the girls out there were not wearing anything at all!!
Is the country getting more conservative??
If you try to act completely on your own without a sort of local or unlocal guide, then the girls will be more than happy to submit immediately.
Don't forget at all times that they like brave guys who know exactly how to act to get what they want.
You've got so many girls around that even if you're successful one in ten times, your life will be totally elaborated.
For those who're interested, one of the many guide services including apartments can be found via
kievapartmentservice.kiev.ua
You can ask for anything you wish and as all the other similar service companies, they'll find the solution to everything you can imagine.
Personally, I've never used such services, as it diminishes the real joy of adventure and surprises, the real thing that Kiev appeals to me.
The attached map from the website reflects all the necessary locations right in the center in the old town by the left bank of the Dniepr river.
Maharadjah
08-31-04, 21:16
Hi,
Does anyone know about this escort website : http://www.exclusive-ukraine.tk/.
Any informations or report will be appreciated!
Here one of a girl photo proposed.
MR
The site is a complete ripoff cause it's exactly in the same format as the fictitious site odessa-escorts.tk which makes it obvious that it's all prepared by the same guy.
The fact that the charges are quoted in dollars rather than euro and the unnatural form of the pictures also make me think in that way.
Instead, stick on the reliable sites such as escort.odessa.ua and starsfromheaven.co.uk
NeilSydney
09-02-04, 12:59
Here are some of my observations from my River Palace experience.
Something I noticed about River Palace is that some of the girls really think quite highly of themselves. At 5am in the morning, there were still girls there quoting $200 for the rest of the night. Night? The sun's about to come up, lady, get real!
I found River Palace was fun to visit, but I was not really tempted by the majority of the girls. Most of them seemed to be hardened professionals. There were a few, however, who were quite amateur and demanded $200 minimum, but were quite happy to go home at 2 or 3am if they didn't get the offer they wanted. In the end though, it just seemed to be a smaller version of Nightflight in Moscow.
Someone once said in this forum that EVERY girl in River Palace is for sale. I was under that impression too, but you have to be careful. I made the 'mistake' of propositioning two girls that were with this big Ukrainian guy. He was pretty pissed off, but saw the funny side quickly, luckily. But you never know what could have happened.
Anyway, so at the end of the night I went with a rather average looking girl called Yulia. Quite tall, very light frizzly hair, age probably 27-30. Slightly saggy tits, but a surprisingly firm butt. But as is common, the worse they look, the better the service. She didn't mind me fingering her while in the cab (though it took 1 hryvna to shut up the cab driver when he complained). In the dark courtyard to my building, I got a nice bbbj to completion (prompted by her). Had sex in the apartment twice before going to bed; once finishing on her tits, and second time 'accidentally' getting it on her chin. And it was nice to wake up to another bbbj to completion in the morning, before I realised how average looking she really was, and booted her out of my apartment. She definitely was one to look at after 10 beers.
All in all, it was an interesting experience at River Palace. Just shows once again that is really hit and miss there.
Reporting live from Kiev, a little bleary eyed...
Each night the packages have been getting tighter here, wow.
Well, first day I hooked up with an independent internet gal, Ludmilla I think... Her pics fairly well represent her nipples which are fairly large with B breasts, so her body was a 8.0 and her face maybe a 6, normali, a bit taller than I like 'em but wow she must be in the Hoover family tree, good to the last drop. Price for 3 hours $100. OK, could have been less but I just landed and I wanted to blow off some, well, rather, I wanted an appetizer.
I tried calling Prince who is also here but due to the idiocy of the manager of this apartment (one of those recently mentioned guys) he never came thru with a cell phone - gives lots of promises but it is hard to carry those around in one's pocket, etc.
Well, at Prince's suggestion I headed out 2 nights ago to Moda Cafe and it was fairly classy, I was feeling a bit laid back, not so pickey so I chatted up the 1st gals that I sat next to, they were nice ladies, one aged 24 a brunette and the other was 27 super blondie with an shocking plunging string blouse which was played with latter in apartment. Yes, so it was 3some. They named a price for all night, till morning at 9 they clearly agreed, the price was $200 total (1/2 each) which seemed oddly low considering, well they put on a farily good show, just not as lesbi as one would like but, hey it was fairly porno like... But alas, following the adage that you get what you pay for after 4 nice hot deep bbbj's and other activity in 3 hours they complained that they had to go to work in the morning, blah, blah, so what could I do bar the door? No, so I said arivaderci.... well actually we spoke all in Russian. But before they left since they felt a little bad about leaving they both put in some great team work to finish me off via another bbbj, I did not know I could do 5 times in 3 hours but they used good technique.
then the following day I called up Svetlana whose name I was given by a friend who used to live in Kiev.... she's mid 30's must have been quite hot when younger but she acts basically as a madame for her many young friends all of whom unfortunately were still down playing in Krim... so we had a nice dinner, all in russian, and since she took me to some rather rip offski places also I do know that I have a well conected friend here for whatever I want next time....
So I sent her off in a taxi and said I wanted to walk along the river which of course after 5 minutes ended up again in Moda Bar... Well, there were some gay russian dudes singing fairly good rock while wearing tight gold stretch pants which resulted basically in all the girls looking at them, not the guys so much and since the performance ended at 2am and since it was hard to tell who was working during this obviously popular concert I high tailed it out of there up to River Palace.
Frankly I see very little difference in the quality of the ladies between Moda Bar and River Palace... I chatted with one snobby gorgeous babe- beautiful face a model, blue eyes, stunnig black hair, like Cleopatra but shoudl refused the notion of all night so I moved on and instead of model type went with a super petite but well built chica who as it turned out was an acrobatic gymnast... her friend was a 'retired' 23 year old dancer and since they knew each other since childhood they do like working together and oh my god they sure as hell did.... That was the tightest package ever.... Quite tired now after that.... The gymnast and I this morning really went at it...I think I can skip my work out today as a result. I'd love to hook up with them again.
Off now to the south of the country. Over and out.
Well, River palace was frankly as good as anything I saw in Rio in terms of selection and I mean it. The girls here really try and it's good to the last drop for most all!
Rendorseg
NeilSydney
09-05-04, 23:56
Back from Kiev, and had such a wonderful time that i am already planning for return.
Here are just a few miscellaneous things I experienced.
If you use GiaEscort, they are no longer the 'cheap' option. The prices now are $100 for 2 hours and $70 for 1 hour. Of course, if you speak Russian well enough to pass as a local, this is significantly cheaper. In fact, ridiculously cheaper. Also, the phone numbers they post on their website lead to operators that do not speak English. They will either hang up on you or direct you to another number, which I never got to work. I only managed to contact when I emailed them and they supplied me yet another number, this time successful. I picked Vladislava (do not go for her; I am not sure they even sent me the right girl!). I also went with Larisa. She is quite good; gives a mean BBBJ and did not complain when I slipped it in her ass. But she does watch the clock somewhat.
A comment about Cocktail Bar 111. This is a great place to go on the right nights. I didn't have any problems getting in, but someone I met said they were told they needed a VIP card and this could only be acquired through recommendation. Anyone know about this?
River Palace. I disliked this place and found the girls snobbish and far too professional, more so than Nightflight in Moscow. I left without taking anyone. (Couldn't get a root in a brothel? :) )The taxi drivers outside there are rip-off merchants. I'm sure most people know this, but I think its useful for other beginners to know this. The 'official' taxi driver will quote you something ridiculous like 35 hryvna to get to the city. Say no, and there will always be some guy in an albeit rundown car, who is happy to take you for 10 hryna or so.
My experiences also taught me that its quite important to learn the cyrillic alphabet just to make life easier, especially on the metro. And I think it helps to speak Russian. I will spend my next few months learning some Russian because although English is trendy here, I found it trying at times to talk to the girls who had very minimal English.
Hope some of that is helping to people around.
NeilSydney,
Nice report. about 111, I was told that on my first time there, well my friend who was Ukrainian, when he turned and told me in English what they told him they looked at me and opened the door and off we went right on in. Think being an American was all the VIP I needed there.
For almost all places like 111 in Kiev, except for RP and Resttown, you need cards to get in, so it's always to visit the places accompanied by a girl. ( Most girls have all kinds of necessary cards)
The interesting part of RP is that you can find all sorts of girls there and it would be much more appealing to go for the regular girls who are sitting in groups away from the bar and also hanging out in the casino section.
I've been to 111 quite a few times (on my own and with a date) and I've never heard anything about needinga card to get in; never been asked for one, never needed one - I'm not sure there's even a cover charge during the week.
I've been to several other clubs in Kiev and I'm positive that I've never needed a VIP card anywhere - all sounds a little dubious. I can't see any of the clubs in the main part of Kiev doing anything to make it more difficult for tourists/businessmen to get in. Doesn't make any business sense at all - maybe somewhere like Freedom when it first opened (didn't go last trip so no recent info) or Chaikovsky but I'm sure it would just be a gimic.
I'd be surprised if any reader of this forum had any trouble getting into a club in Kiev.
NeilSydney
09-06-04, 20:01
About 111:
As I suspect, I think its a form of face control. I think if you have the card they will always let you in, but if you don't then only if you can pass the test, which probably means going with a girl, or just dressing well and being confident and heading straight in. I actually have a sense of deja vu about this topic: maybe its been discussed earlier.
Anyway, I think I did see the cards being flashed around, so I think they do exist.
Anyway, apparently you get the cards "by recommendation". I'm sure the bouncers will recommend you for a few hryvna!
apologies to everyone who wrote with questions and pm'd me over the last couple weeks. i had to cut short my trip to kiev by two days to return to work and have been on the road continuously since then. unfortunately most of that took place in france, and there is just no way i'm going to try to type out a long report on those damn french keyboards!!
prince2: yes i used an internet cafe that is right on independence square between the mcdonalds and the post office. it's upstairs and i think it's 10 grivnas for an hour (us$2). the attendant speaks english, speed of connection is isdn/slow dsl (maybe 256-512k), and everything worked fine.
dress in rp was all over the board. i saw guys in jeans but most people were just euro-casual in dark slacks/shirts. for me it was just a pair of brown painter's pants and a black silk button-down shirt. nothing designer. i think your friendliness and attitude are more important everywhere.
i'm not sure why the immigration lady in borispol wanted to know who was inviting me. it's quite clear from their embassy's website that americans (and several other nationalities) don't need any sort of invitation to visit the ukraine. fortunately i had asked uaapartments to give me an invitation letter anyway which totally satisfied the sour-faced immigration lady. i think i could have gotten by without having it with some shucking 'n jiving, but would have had to actually start talking with her, which is always a bad thing when it comes to dealing with government agents.
beansed: going in i had about us$1000 and eur$500 on me, which i dutifully declared. after my long wait in customs to do this the customs agent actually crossed out everything i wrote in trying to declare my funds and just wrote some indecipherable note in russian at the bottom of my declaration sheet, stamped it, and gave it back. since i had to leave early and some of the other aspects of my trip didn't quite go as planned, i still had over us$1000 on the way out, so i was a bit leery of what would happen. at customers when leaving they just looked at the stamped declaration sheet, asked me how much cash i had, and waved me out. no problems.
Kiev report part two.
Due to my pre-arranging dates with two ladies through Friendfinder.com I suddenly found myself a bit confined in my activities. The benefit of pre-arranging the ladies was they all spoke English and I knew I could at least get a nice guide service, etc. However once I mostly figured out how things worked I found my internet selections wanting compared to the seemingly endless stream of hotties just walking by.
So dutifully I was on to my second prearranged date. The second lady I met was another nice early 30s type who normally would have been barely bed-able but in the atmosphere of super-hotties in Kiev didn't quite measure up. I also had this little early 20s hottie that I'd just met right before leaving to Kiev so I was in a pretty picky mood.
We did have a nice time doing tourist things with her showing me all around the city. I really walked her tail off taking me everywhere, taking photos of me and the zillion monuments they have to everything there. Like everyone I met she really wanted me to see her city in the best light and did her best to show me a nice time. She did pay me back a little for all the exercise by suggesting a very nice (and expensive) Ukrainian restaurant for dinner (although to her credit she did tell me it was expensive). I can't remember (or pronounce) the name but it was styled just like a traditional Ukrainian house or village and is very upscale. I'm sure anyone there would know it if described. Well we had a wonderful dinner that I dropped US$100+ on. She suggested going back to my place afterwards but I just didn't want to partake so we parted company with promises for me to to call later, etc. etc.
Next day I learned work was recalling me two days early, so this was to be my last day. Not having hooked up yet with any of the eye candy wandering around I decided not to goof around but to head over to River Palace. This I did, and enjoyed a second good meal there cheap. I hit the disco about midnight where there was a large number of hotties. This time I worked the floor talking to a lot of ladies and taking my time choosing. I found most of them too pro-like to be interesting (a feeling others have posted feeling also). One thin blond was smiling at me so I went over to say hello. She had been there two days before when I was there and I ignored her for what I thought were hotter babes that turned out to be too hardened for my taste. I've noted in my other travels that often the slightly less hot girls that seem to really like you are by far the best choice for a good time.
Anyway Olga was 24, blond, thin, small breasts and nice tight figure. She told me she goes to RP once a week or so and works in an office the rest of the time. She remembered me from the other time I was there, which slightly embarrased me cuz I had really ignored her "come hither" smiles that night. She was easy to talk to and obviously liked me so I suggested we go back to my place. She suggested $250 which I laughed at, and we were instantly at $150.
One thing that has been mentioned here several times before that bears repeating is DO NOT get in to a cab with a lady leaving RP without first agreeing to the price. I had read this piece of sage advice before leaving and promptly forgot it in my excitement to get home. Naturally upon arriving the cabbie wanted 65 grivna which is about 2-3x the normal price. I told him "No way" and he kept repeating "Policia" or some approximation. I said fine and sat back to let the girl negotiate with him. Finally we settled on 50 grivna which was still at least 15 grivna too much but I figured I wasn't going to argue over US$3.
Once in my apt. Olga and I talked for about an hour, had some wine, and finally hit the bedroom. BBBJ was performed without being asked to do so and it was very good. We then had straight sex which was very enjoyable. I did ask if I could take her picture which she definitely did not want. I insisted but could not get her to agree. Sorry guys.
The most interesting thing was after the sex. We were again talking about all sorts of things and she was telling me about her boyfriend who apparently didn't know about her extracurricular activities and how they were shortly going on a holiday to the Crimea. Unsolicitied she said she had a very beautiful friend that she wanted to hook me up with. She suggested the four of us could all go together for several days if I liked. She gave me her phone number and told me to call her in a couple days to let her know. She was really nice about it and it was typical of the very friendly, helpful and genuine attitude of all the people I met on my trip. The feeling I got was they really wanted to put the best face on their country for visitors and wanted them to have a good time and go away with a good opinion of the place, people, etc. Since I had to catch a plane in a couple hours we parted company.
Leaving early I had to change my flight and learned that Ukrainian Airlines has a nonstop to London which was also the cheapest flight I could get on short notice. The plane was a modern 737 so thought this might be of interest to fellow readers.
To sum up my trip to Kiev I'd say the representations of lots of hot babes is accurate. I also think they are generally pretty friendly and want to meet western guys. You'll have a lot more choice if you can speak conversational Russian (if that's you then be warned because you may not want to leave this babe paradise). If not you'll still have a great time but depending on your ability to just approach ladies cold may want to get a guide that knows you are hunting for ladies and who can make introductions and take you to appropriate pick-up locations.
RP is a great choice if you don't mind a fairly pro attitude (with good value for your money). It's definitely easy for the non-Russian speaker with a good, cheap restaurant with english menus, etc. I was told by one of my ff.com girls that Moda Bar was popular for normal girls to go for fun.
You can also just walk down the street and chat up the girls (that speak English) and am pretty sure you could do fine just doing that.
No scientific evidence to back this up just a feeling that younger girls (19-25) are easier and have more of a "good to go" attitude. I think they start pretty young here.
The older ones seem a bit more wary but still very easy to talk to, etc.
Don't bring any more US$ than you need for the pros, cuz there are ATMs everywhere and everything is relatively cheap.
Thanks to everybody who posted and made for a great trip for me!
Kiev, end of august 2004
I was again in Kiev for a few days. First night, sunday, went to River Palace(RP) at 1.00 A.M.
I prefer RP above Moda Bar, further on the road along the river.
RP is a disco on a ship in the river called Dnepr.
Same type of girls, same prices but I prefer the RP atmosphere and lay-out.
Almost all the girls are available with the exeption, may be , of the girls that come in with a guy.
As most of you will know, RP has a disco and a "casino" at the streetlevel and a bar/restaurant one level lower.
When you enter you pay about 50 gryvnia, about 10 US$ entrance fee and get a (almost invisible) stamp at your hand so that you can walk in and out.
Untill 1.00 am it is very quiet. Action starts at about 1 untill 3 or 4 in the morning.
The room is about 100 x 30meters, in the middle a dancefloor,
and tables around that flour.
When you enter you can ask the waitress a table but i prefer to walk till the end of the floor where the bar is.
There you will find some hiher tables, without chairs so you will have to stand.
In this part, most of the ladies stand and chat. You can easy mix and order a drink and look at the ladies dancing at the floor.
This ladies really know how to dance. A wonderfull sight.
The girls will never aproach you. You will have to do the first move.
Quite easy, tey are just next to you. Just say "hello". If they are interested, they will answer, if not they will not react.
NOT because they are not available but because this girls has already a date, is waiting for her date, does not like you or for whatever reason.
Most of the girls speak at least basic english.
I choosed a perfect looking girl, abou 25 years,, blond and had a little chat.
I offerered a drink, 25 gryvnia, and asked why she was there.(I knew but you have to start somewhere).
The answer was obvious, so we discussed the possibility to have a drink and more at my apartment.
By the way, in Kiev I prefer an apartment.No hassle with securityguard.
The going rate is 100 US$ for a few hours, 200$ for the night.
Deal done, taking a cab to the city. 50 gryvnia is the going rate.
A lot of cabs waiting outside, all the same price.
Of course you can try the sovjethabit: just stand along the road and wave your arm. Quite normal in eastern countries that somebody will stop and take you for a much smaller fee.But during the night, with that girl standing next to you and not much traffic.
If somebody stops, you cannot pronounce the street you live, the number and can not negotiate.Almost nobody speaks english. Some cabdrivers do. I could do it, I speak enough russian, the common lanmguage here, but if you don't, don try this alternative.
Just take a cab, have your adress written at a piece of paper or have a map so that you can explain where to go.
Going "home" I bought some drinks after asking the girl what she would like to drink. In Kiev some foodshops (magasin produkti) are open all night.
Arrived at the apartment, had a drink and took a shower.
When she came out of the shower it was evident that I had made an excellent choice.Waering just a towel I could admire her perfect tits, great ass and beatiful figure.
Do you rember the movie" the postman always rings twice".
The postman did the girl, while the girl was lying at the table.
In an apartment there will not be a large table, neither in an hotelroom.
But, in an apartment there will always be an sofa. That is the place I prefer to start.
Just put the girl upside down at this sofa, shoulders at the seat, legs over the back and you can reach every inch.
Fucking while you stand and at the same time stimulating her clit.
She will like that.
After about fifteen minutes of play we moved to the bedroom.
There we fucked like animals, missionary, cowboy,doggystyle.
Doing doggystyle I entered het ass with my fingers after lubricating with some gel.
After about twenty deep poundings she climaxed.She asked me to continue but without touching her ass. That, she told me,was too sensitive after climaxing.I continued and popped.
We had a drink and chatted for half an hour.She was from Odessa a place where I have been several times.
By the way, we spoke english; she was rather fluent.
We started again with our game.After some time I popped again.
Again a drink, and we went to sleep.
In the morning, at 8 o'clock, I woke her. This took some time but then she started to do what she had to do.With her hands she explored my whole body and especially my better part. After some cbj she asked me, which position I preferred and again, we had a wonderful time.
No hurry, just fun. I popped, I prepared coffee we had a chat and she left after I paid her.
This was my first, well spend night in Kiev.
More nights to come.I will keep you informed.
It seems very interesting to me that almost everyone complains about the pro attitude in RP, but becomes very content at the end.
What's that thin line between GFE and pro action anyway?
It's so difficult to find real pro behaviour in Kiev, even if you're interested in such attitude!
The initial looks of a girl should not be barely enough to justify pro attitude and mechanical behaviour.
On the contrary, if she tries to attract your attention too much by oversmiles at the beginning, it's more likely that you'll have a boring time together.
NeilSydney
09-08-04, 18:37
William3, Cool report man.
Just wanted to comment on "50 hryvna is the going rate". I never paid more than 25 hryvna, and even then I felt I was overpaying. I try and push for 20. Many will ask for 30-40, but if you are happy to go in an unofficial taxi, it'll be much cheaper. Its just a principles thing. After all, its not that much money.
California Guy
09-09-04, 04:03
I asked people in the UK forum about which city they most prefer in Europe but since one of the places I am considering on going to is Kiev I figured I would post here as well.
Basically my question here is for the people that have also been to either Prague, Hungary, or both along with Ukraine. I was wondering which is your favorite and why? They all seem to be about the same in prices but maybe I am wrong? What about the overall attitude of people towards you and how the girls view you around town? Have any gotten to commericalized and are now out of control? Oh and just so you know I am looking for pretty girls but more girl next door or student types. I am also looking to spend multiple hours with one person and pay the same as I would for one hour with a girl here in the US.
Okay thanks for any advice! You can write here or PM me so whatever works is great.
Ciao!
The answers you wonder have been expressed many times on various aspects, just be patient enough to read back.
One more thing, there's no other place like Kiev, no need to compare or look futher.
California Guy,
"They all seem to be about the same in prices but maybe I am wrong?"
Prices are not the same. For 1 hour in Budapest or Prague, you can have several hours, if not one full night in Kiev (or Minsk, even Moscow). Especially if you speak Russian.
"... how the girls view you around town?"
Well, how are you ? young/old? slim/fat? tall/short? white/coloured? well educated/son of a b*tch? If you look like Tom Cruise, you won't have a problem anywhere on earth ;). More seriously, I'm afraid nobody can answer this kind of question.
People all have a very good reason to go to each of these places. You ask the question here, answer will be Kiev. Ask the question in the Prague forum, answer will be Prague. In addition, things and people change. You ask me the same question 5 years ago, I would say Budapest. 2 years ago, I would say Prague. Last year, I would say Kiev. Now, I say Minsk. Next year, I may say Moscow. Go browse through the respective forums to see what people like at each place and how it fits with your own preferences.
Jim
PS : If things haven't changed in Budapest is the last couple of years, I would say "don't go to Budapest". Check in their forum if it's still that bad, although I'm pretty sure there are some Budapest lovers still out there.
NeilS is right, I paid 25 grivna for cabs everywhere with the one exception the night I forgot to establish the price ahead of time. Note that with UAapartments you can call Dmitri or Vladimir anytime and they will arrange a cab and have it waiting for you right at your apartment whenever you say. There is no extra charge for this.
And Vegamars is also right: I think when people talk about "pro attitude" in Kiev it is not the same as say in the U.S. where pro-attitude means an unfriendly and unaccomodative robot who is in a hurry to leave. It is a world of difference since every eastern european girl I've met did BBBJ and most TC without being asked in any way. They also usually really want to know you better and secretly hope for a more serious relationship. Staying several hours or all night without having to establish this in advance is another major difference. So there are too many differences to use the same terminology. We really need a new label for "pro" when it comes to EE girls.
For me the beauty, attitudes, and cultural upbringing of EE girls is totally compelling. And the ones I've met certainly seem more intelligent and capable then many of the U.S. women I've known. I'm quite interested in learning Russian so I can know these women better. I could see myself possibly making a wife out of one of them at some point.
Peter Pan 2
09-09-04, 19:10
Hi guys,
As new to this forum I read the last 20 pages and found that a lot of you advise non-russian speaking men like me to get a guide. I will try to visit Kiev this year and would like to know if anybody knows of or better used a guide which they can recommend. A couple of months ago a guy wrote about the vipgateway agency that had female guides but they seem to have ended their business. Any idea's?
PP2
Member #2109
09-09-04, 19:18
California Guy,
"I am also looking to spend multiple hours with one person and pay the same as I would for one hour with a girl here in the US."
Man, please don't do that. I'm sure you are paying at least $350 per hour in the U.S. from any decent escort (and probably more). That kind of money can last DAYS in the FSU. Please read this forum for updates on pricing before you leave on your trip. I just returned from Moscow and prices are up in the summer but drop with the temperature. Supply and demand. I'm not a Ukrainian expert but I imagine you can find a beautiful dyev for the night for $150 or under in most cases. Don't throw $250 or $300 bucks at some young hottie because "it's cheaper than in the U.S. and is for the entire night"! This can/will/does ruin the market.
Happy hunting
Kiev end of august 2004 Got Robbed, stupid me
The weather was beautiful, temperature 25 C (75F), the Kreshatik boulverard full of beautiful girls.Kreshatikboulevard is a two times three lane boulevard with broad sidewalks.
One of the sidewalks, with the Mc Donalds at, is in fact a double one,a lower one along the street and a higher one, about 1 meter higher, with trees along.
This latter one is, where the people prefer to walk during the evening. This one is a little darker, but not too dark.
A lot of banks to sit so you can enjoy and watch all the people.
The houses in which people live in Ukraine are very small.For this reason, people, young people, prefer to be outside.
So on nice evenings, hundreds, thousands of young people stroll along this boulevard.
The girls are beautiful.If you didn't know better, you would think there are just hookers walking at this sidewalk.Not so.Ukrainian girls dress this way.Short skirts, much naked belly so enjoy.
Untill about 22.00 you, as inexperienced watcher, cannot distinguish between working girls and "normal" girls.
But, after, let us say 22.00 a lot of the girls are working girls, approachable.But gay boys too!
It is not easy to recognise working girls.Sometimes they are dressed more provocing but mostly not.
They don't walk slow.They don't sollicit.They walk like they are going somewhere.If they don't, they are targetted by the cops so they walk like going somewhere BUT are going NOwhere but how do you know?The best way is just sitting at a seat along the sidewalk, the higher one!, and look around.
If you hesitate, just stand up and walk about 50 meters after this girls. (mostly the girls walk in pairs).If they are approachable, you will notice that one of the men at the street will approach them.
The ukrainian men have, of course, a better vieuw at the girls, if you can approach them or not.
If a (ukrainian) man talks to the girl look careful.If she answers, maybe she is a working girl. Sometimes they will make a deal but often not. Now it is your turn. Enhance your pace and speak to her.Something like "do you speak english" could be enough.
If you are wrong, no problem. All the girls in Ukraine are used to man that try to make contact.That is the way how "normal" girls and man meet.
For the next steps, you are on yourself.Everybody has his own strategy. Just a small problem: most ukrainian girls don't speak another language.
I speak basic russian, the general known language in Kiev.
At this beatiful evening, about 22.30 hrs I saw a splendid girl, about 28 years old, walking alone. I spoke to her and said (in russian) "hello" are you alone? Bingo! She answered "yes". We chatted a little and I invited her to come to my apartment to have a drink and chat .
She agreed.We did some shopping. I never know what the girls like to drink so I asked it and we buy it.
After the shopping we walked to my apartment, not to far away from the maidan, a square at the end of the kreshatikboulevard.
During this walk she explained that she could not stay very long because she had to go home to her parents and the last metro would leave at midnight. I said that we shouldn't hurry and that I would pay the taxi.
In the apartment we drank a little, chatted and I started totake further steps.
She did not want to go much further because "we just know each other". What the fuck, walking along the street at almost midnight and going with a total stranger and then" we just know each other"?
It was warm, I was transpiring and she to.
Then, at a certain moment I believed I made a hugh step forwrard.
She said: "why don't you take shower?"I didn't hesitate and walked to the bathroom and took a shower.I came out wearing just a towel . She smiled, kissed and we cuddled.
But then, all of a sudden she said" I have to go home now but will be back tomorrow evening at 8. Then I will stay the whole night.
Reluctant, I agreed and I gave her some money for the cab.
She left and I looked for my mobile phone. GONE.
I looked in my bedroom. Something had changed.
I called my mobile, there is a phone in this apartment. I often forget where my mobile is, in my clothes, at a seat, at the table.
The easiest way to find it is, just call yourself by using the normal phone. As soon as you hear the bell of your mobile, you know where your mobile is.
SO, I phoned my mobile. It was switched off!!
I never do that, just at home during the night.
So: my mobile was not in the apartment.
I looked in my pocket: my wallet was still there.Fortunately, I had my wallet in my trousers when I went into the bathroom.
At that moment I realised that, some minutes after I entered the bathroom, I left the bathroom because I had forgotten my soap.
The girl was not at the place where I left her.
Now I realise that, at that moment, she was sneaking around, looking in the rooms for money or valuables.
Next day she did not show up.Of course not.
Lesson learned.When you are in an room or apartment, lock your valuables when you are there with somebody else.
Hi,
This is just a suggestion, so please don't take it the wrong way.
I appreciate the details in your report, but I know from experience that a lot of people find it easier to read a report if the paragraphs are separated by a single blank line.
I know how this happens: You're banging away at the keyboard, putting your thoughts into the report as fast as you can write them. However, if you could hit the return key TWICE at the end of each paragraph, your report would be much easier to read, which would certainly be appreciated by your fellow Forum Members.
Thanks,
Jackson
California Guy
09-10-04, 09:10
Member 2109,
I would never pay more than I needed to so don't worry! In fact the situation in the US is a joke because so many of these guys, for some reason I can't explain, pay $$$$ for a girl that could barely get into porn. Mexico is fairly close to where I live but I won't even travel there anymore. Prices have jumped about 200% in the past couple of years and I refuse to pay that, especially considering the filth and hassle you must deal with to go into Mexico. It is really sad because I hear more people saying the same things but obviously some guys are going because the prices haven't gotten lower.
I will say I am not against paying the going rate, so I am not cheap, but when prices are changing that much in a third world country it just doesn't make sense. So I will definitely read up on whichever areas I choose to enter and that is why I am asking questions as well, to get answers. Thanks though for giving me the heads up because at least I can get an idea about this area and it's prices.
In fact there are no working girls on Krischatik and you don't need to pay anything if you're gonna hook up with those girls from the street.
It's obviously suspicious enough when a girl asks to show up the next day while you already have the opportunity.
The solution is quite easy since you've got the complete control, you just tell now or never, that's all there is to it!!
Vegamars,
After 22.00 there are enough working girls at the kreshatikstreet!
I can assure you.
You cannot perceive any working girls in the sense that you see on the streets of most of Western Europe and the States.
The attractive girls you see on Kreschatik or any other street whether it's daytime or midnight are not the typical pros, they're just looking for some action and excitement to cheer up their relatively boring lives.
As for the general prices, they will never drop down with temperature or over the years, neither in Moscow nor in any other place, but on the contrary will always increase irrevocably based on my experience and observations over the years in many locations in the world.
The only solution would be by the increasing search of freebies, but as we all know it only constitutes about 1% of the whole mongering scene.
Even on this particular whole forum, I can't see any desire or will to evoke ways and tricks of replacing the pay scene by the much more valuable and qualitative freebies.
There are no working girls on kreshatik street !
The place sure is full of hot women....
I have walked around after 22:00 and there is no street action which i have seen.yes everyone is approachable in kiev and the girls are provocatively dressed but that doesnt make them working girls !
Lovely place though !!
John Quakman
09-11-04, 21:49
V-man
Chasing pussy i.e. freebies can be done anywhere with varing success. Purchasing top quality cheap pussy is in rare parts of the world.
Why go to the expense and effort to fly to some corner of the globe where you don't speak the language, have no clue about the M/F customs, don't know where the optimum places to increase success, and spend what little time you really have chasing what might prove to be a dead end.
Freebies are a great alternative anywhere but uniformly more difficult. Given the expense of going to Kiev ect, the pussy has to be 1. above average and 2. relatively cheap or the per unit cost is higher than that at home.
Finally guys who are pussy masters seem to get laid anywhere for free, most of us aren't and don't. Sitting here crowing about your success in free pussy is no different than listening to the stud puppy back home talk about fucking little susie down the street. Talking about how it should be the focus is like telling everyone that`P4P is somehow beneath the studs aforementioned who "never pay for pussy".
Member #1453
09-12-04, 09:05
Hi,
I am in Kiev now, and will be here for the next few months. Would love to meet up with any forum member who is in town or passing through. I am a relatively new member and have no experience at all in Kiev. I would appreciate it very much if members in the know are willing to share any contacts locally. RP on a regular basis is not n option, rather freelancers, low maintenance locals are what i can afford.
If you need my coordinates, PM me please. Waiting for ideas.
Here is my experience in Kiev from this past August. This is my first post on this forum so any assistance would be appreciated.
I arrived in Kiev on August 23 with what I had hoped would be possibilities for inexpensive mongering. However, thanks to the ineptitude of a wire service and the cynical view of Ukraine as being corrupt, my plans fell through except for a couple of normal dates. Coffee with one and dinner with the other. Nice time but no pussy! What's a mongerer to do?
Well, fortunately I brought the phone number of Odessa escorts with me. I spoke to Eva and although my first choice was not available, she indicated that I would be happy with Masha based on who I originally wanted to see.
Man, was she right! Masha showed up sleek and slender, tastefully dressed. Petitie, dyed blonde and the prettiest eyes I've seen in awhile. I booked her for 24 hours and after a couple of hours of warm-up talk and a shower, we started kissing.
Masha really enjoys kissing and after about 15 minutes of tonsil hockey, she wanted to get more comfortable in the bedroom. My only disappointment was she did not like DATY! Imagine that! Oh well, not a bother because her BBBJ was wonderful. Soft and slow and when I asked her not to use her hands Masha was very compliant.
We went through the normal positions, missionary, doggie, (which she didn't like), but I saved my favorite position for last.
LOTUS! It has never failed to bring my partner to an orgasmic level and Masha was no different. By the time we finished, 4 hours later, I was completely drenched in the package area. Masha was quite content and I enjoyed watching her face as she brought herself to orgasm. What a treat!
We rested for awhile, watching the independence celebration from my apartment balcony, naked of course! Being an American, I could not resist the urge to go down and at least mingle. Masha however become concerned as the crowd was huge! So we went back upstairs and tried to find a restaurant that was open. Finally found the Corona Club which had excellent food at a reasonable price. 200H for a three course meal including drinks.
Back to apartment and now it was 2am. What to do next you ask? Put on some music. I played a CD I made myself and it seemed to put Masha in the mood for more. We retired to the bedroom for Round 2. Now here's the kicker. After another sensual blowjob, I asked her what position she would like to try next. Her response? You guessed it. LOTUS! 4 hours later I was exhausted and I think she was too.
We slept until noon then took a nice walk around the city. I just love Taras Shevchenko Park! Unfortunately, Masha had to catch a 3pm train so we didn't have time for anything else.
My recommendation is book her while she is still around. Lovely face, bubbly and pert personality, and just loves sex! Masha does not speak English very well and we had fun using my electronic translator but when the need aroused, translation wasn't necessary.
Total damage: $538 for 24 hours with a wonderful woman. If you do the Math, the final cost averaged $22/hour not including the cabs and dinner. Overall a great experience that I hope to repeat in December.
Yours respectfully,
Tatsuo
Congratulations for meeting an Odessan girl in Kiev!!
If you're ready to spend that sort of money, you could hook up with a real top model in Kiev for about 300-400 bucks for 24hrs.
Vegamars - Since Nexus Model Agency is closed, do you have any other Kiev agency to recommend ? Feel free to PM me. Thanks.
You can try to go for every model agency, even the top one karinmodels, provided that you're willing to pay incredible prices for the top quality.
It seems more reasonable to try starsfromheaven.co.uk
TheGuyFromNY
09-13-04, 20:34
Karin seems to be just a regular modeling agency. What makes you think they are available ? Also, I have used StarsfromHeaven and they aren't exactly model level.
Reasonable? Hey Vegamars, when was the last time you checked out the prices for starsfromheaven? Their minimum price is 550 Euros for 24 hours! At the current rate of exchange, that comes out to about $700. Not exactly a bargain now is it? I'm not trying to start a flame war but seriously consider your advice before you give it to someone, please.
Tatsuo
NeilSydney
09-14-04, 08:30
I was recently in Kiev and tried starsfromheaven.
I wouldn't bother with more than 4hours. If you get along, it should be easy to rearrange another meeting with her. If not, then thank goodness you haven't paid for 24hours.
Are they model quality? well, some of them, but most of them are no better/worse than you could get at RP. The only thing is that you can be sure of good service and pretty decent English. Whether that in itself is worth the extra premium you pay is questionable.
My girl (name was Luba, Luda or something like that), was very good while she was there. But after about 2 1/2 hours, around 2am she said she had a stomach ache. Yeah right. But I just wanted to sleep by then and let her leave as she requested.
I've noticed starsfromheaven are gradually increasing their prices. So too are gia (for non-russian speakers). Could be that one has to actually do some work to find a bargain now!
Maybe you're not aware, but as I'm involved in the modelling business, I can tell you at once that almost every regular model agency in every country has some connection to action in some way.
Of course, they'll totally reject your proposal at first and you've gotto reflect some kind of insistence and trust to get a positive reply.
For the no one agency karinmodels in kiev for instance, I know from my own experience, but don't be so surprised to hear prices like 1000 for 2hrs.
The girls in starsfromheaven are all models, so there's no doubt about the quality and especially performance if your selection is careful enough.
The prices fluctuate to a great extent and subject to negotiation, so it's quite possible to deal on 400-500 for 1 day and after the first time you can easily get discounts.
For much lower prices like 250 per day and almost the same quality, you could go for gia.com.ua or kievescort.com
I would advise you to meet the best girls from either agency for a short period like 2-4 hrs and then the rest is up to you to arrange private meetings for yourself to save up almost 50% or even all.
If you wonder how I'm so sure or how it can be possible, I've managed to soak out free vacations for a whole week just at the expense of a plane ticket.
It's also a good idea to go for independent girls through uaescort.com or kiev-x.com without having the burden of agency commission that make up 60% of the total sum.
As I always express, all this effort and expenses are totally needless, but it's a good experience and worth trying at least once.
California Guy
09-14-04, 11:29
Vega,
Hey good info! I was wondering though if there was a way to read through some of these sites in English?
Hi Vega,
What your last note indicates to me is that if I want to negotiate and try to wheel and deal, then it is possible to get the cost down. The problem was, as I indicated, I had already done that and it just did not work out this time. Under those circumstances, I'm not interested in another waste of time doing the counter, counter offer routine.
Price should never be the only consideration, IMHO. I am also sure that if you are involved with model agencies in Ukraine, then you speak Russian, which I do not beyond a few basic terms. So it is not possible to compare your experiences with everyone else.
I got what I wanted and was completely satisfied. If price is more important to you, then that is good too. It is not my main priority though.
Take care,
Tatsuo
Vegemars,
karin model looks like a regular model agency, you sure there are girls offering escorting services? There are girls there 13-16yrs old!
Which (legal) ones are you talking about?
p.s.
Tatsuo
personally $700 for 24hrs is bloody good for top quality, bear in mind, places like UK 24hrs is going for twice that!
Bear in mind that all model agencies seem like regular agencies, whether in Ukraine or another country.
The modelling age varies from 14 to 32 in all agencies in Ukraine and those Ukrainian models who work in Europe and other countries mostly use their second passports that bear them as at least 5-6 years younger and it's impossible to understand by just looking at their faces.
Of course, I've been talking about the action girls of 18 and over, but it was a good try anyway without any aim at all.
My knowledge of Russian is very limited, only a few sentences and a few words I've learned on my own from my girlfriends, so it's much better if you don't speak Russian at all.
The comparison of prices in UK and the States with those in Ukraine is a completely off the topic and a huge letdown.
You can take my word that all the girls from starsfromheaven are from the modelling world, so almost all have a decent kind of behaviour.
It's true that the prices are rising slowly everywhere and it's always gonna increase straight up, thanks to all mongerers including this particular forum members.
Currently, the cheapest places are Northern Cyprus, Kishinev, Tiraspol, Minsk and Kiev.
However, time is very limited for the golden era.
My concern for the prices is not for the sole purpose of affording, but mainly the decrease of joy and excitement you would derive as opposed to hunting for free.
Links like uaescort.com and kiev-x.com are easy to follow up, but it's much more fun to visit the site loveme.ru that can be translated into English.
Don't expect too much from an agency girl when you can't remember even her nickname.
The first moment you meet her is very important of the onward attitude and behaviour.
If she's got the right mood for you, she's gonna tell her real name quite gladly and the rest is so appealing...
Member #2001
09-15-04, 11:16
the time for cheap prime ass is over and done with in Ukraine. Belive me I know. HOwever I think there are some places where you can get really cheap pussy in Ukraine, joust not in Kiev. I a village its certainly possible. I just wont tell everyone here exactly where.
Although the time left for cheap prices is diminishing rapidly, there are still some alternatives as explained before.
Besides, the opportunity of freebies for minimum will always be possible for those who have the guts to take the steps and effort to heat up.
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