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LilJoey
05-16-11, 04:14
Having contracted both chlamydia and gonorhea on several occasions from BBBJ several years ago, I no longer do it. I remember however, that most.if not all- of the girls offered it and I had to stop them and use a condom. I am just not sure if Gloria was one of them. I do remember that she enjoyed receiving oral though.I'm not quite sure you can't get chlamydia or gonorhea from going down on a girl, or whether there is any statistical difference in the risk to the man in giving unprotected oral versus receiving. What I am sure is that Gloria's sexy body aroused my interest and I'm sure her pussy was pink and delicious. LOL. Maybe there was a miscommunication between her and me on the subject. Unfortunately for me, even though her body was sizzling hot, I made a snap decision and passed on inviting her home and went on to the next one. Fortunately, there are many hot girls to choose from. I just couldn't understand how Lukasek could come away from a club with girls like Gloria, and Yanna and others who you saw also and prefer the top-modals bullshit, unless it wasd a budget issue, which he wrote he didn't have.

Nice to hear from you indirectly.

LJ

Eros74
05-16-11, 07:59
Hello, Liljoey,

Thanks. Probably is cause I have cash to spend and not to burn, I have no problem to spend 400usd for an all night if I am sure it will be GFE with full service, but at these prices I do not like to take the risk, if I am not so sure, I will pass.

I started to go to strip club and brothels in 1998 in Prague. So I got tons of girls in my life, at the beginning for me it was enough the look, now I care much more about the level of GFE.

In my opinion Rio girls are too professional, for example they almost no dance at all, many seems like to walking around in a circle, they dot no smile and as mine girl in privat dance, she looked herself in the mirror, no kissing at all and when I tried to touch her pussy, I mean her thong, she said no!

I will try more girls in privat dance, but my feeling is that who get GFE with Rio girls is very lucky man, my feeling is that they are spoiled and lazy girls that probably want to earn with just one customer what others girls earn with many customers, cause as I said some of them are really average looking.

In others words if I get a session so and so with mamba girl is ok for me, but from Rio girls I want a session of pure GFE, at Rio prices is the less we can wait.

You said go there early to get a table downstairs?

I have to read again your report, cause we sit down at table at the first floor, I thought higher floor, better girls, isn't it Liljoey?

At first floor, the first floor where the club starts to exist, you have 2 girls and 3 tables one in front of the other, then at same floor a bit more far you have 3 girls and some tables one at the left of the others.

So there are higher floors right?

However Liljoey believe me I would like to take home a Rio girl, but I want to be sure she worth it the money unless I take for the same price 3 girls from mamba.

Insomniaque
05-16-11, 08:55
I took a privat dance with the one who looked to me the more friendly and she looked herself in the mirror dancing, she did not get all naked and at least for 200 grivnas I understood her poor attitude.Now this is really surprising. There may or may not be chemistry during private dances, but the will girl get naked in any case, regardless of whether she is keen on you or not. Or is it just that I have been lucky so far? I never had a private dance which did not end naked.

Anyway, seems you have been pretty unlucky there. I would second LJ's advice and suggest you give it another try. There really are gems to be found!

Eros74
05-16-11, 09:53
Now this is really surprising. There may or may not be chemistry during private dances, but the will girl get naked in any case, regardless of whether she is keen on you or not. Or is it just that I have been lucky so far? I never had a private dance which did not end naked.

Anyway, seems you have been pretty unlucky there. I would second LJ's advice and suggest you give it another try. There really are gems to be found! Thanks, that surprised me more than you, I thought they get naked, but she did not, so I thought I was wrong.

Surely I will give another try to Rio.

One interesting thing I noticed, in the guides to Kiev city you find in airport and so on, there are always 4 or 5 strip club but I never saw an advertisement of Rio.

Eros74
05-16-11, 10:00
I woke up and had lunch at il patio, it is a chain and in Russia I went there daily, for not outrageous price they offer very good pasta and pizza.

Then I thought it was time to test mamba, so I started to call, the problem is that most of them do not do BBBJ, something I really love, others are not my type, I love thin girl, others were not answering to telephone.

I found so sad no sex at my second day in Kiev and I was tired to call, I am patient guy but not when I am horny LOL so when enough is enough I just went out in the street and I stop the first taxi I found and I asked him if he has number of salon, the same thing as I did in russia tons of times very successfully!

First taxi said no, he was old man, second one started to call, but I make him clear I want a girl who does BBBJ and he looked to me. As if I asked something really normal. Interesting isn'it? I have the feeling that as a turist, girls not only charge us more but even give us less extra.

To make long short. Finally!

He started to do some calls, then he asked me. 600 grivnas for girl and 100 for me, ok? I knew he cannot do it for free, so I was very happy to tip him, happier than to tip a waitress LOL, so I agree with a smile in my face and he said wait here, in 10 minutes will arrive a car with 2 girls and he left, so easy so fast and so good service LOL.

I took the best one and it was an amazing 1 hour of pure fun, BBBJ but no anal.

However very cheap price or should I say very normal, ukranian price?

She was girl next door, something that in Kiev means a solid 8'.168cm-53kg she said. 21 yo, blond short hair and skin white as snow, blue eyes and a pussy that tasted better than honey, her BBBJ was globoki oral and there is nothing better than a deep throat very wet and without condom, as bonus she was a very good kisser and so friendly, she spoke only Russian but who cares.

I am surprised that was enough just 1 day here to get me back speak Russian as 2 years ago, so I have bigger problem to write here my reports in enough correct english to make you understand me than to order girl, or as I did, to stop taxi and make him work for me :D

It is very good feeling I do not have to search for girls who speak english, hardly suggested to invest time learning Russian as it was many times already said here.

Oh as you can imagine the pics here are from girl I got from taxi, she charged me nothing to take pics, she just told me I have a kid, no face.

I start to like the city LOL, even if it is not so easy as I thought and as it should be!

Then at the evening I met with my buddy and we went to il patio again, then we plan was to go to Rio, but we both were too tired, me I slept about 9 hours in 2 days, so we went to sleep.

I want to thank IT Travel for his help by pm

LilJoey
05-16-11, 11:10
Hello, Liljoey,

Thanks. Probably is cause I have cash to spend and not to burn, I have no problem to spend 400usd for an all night if I am sure it will be GFE with full service, but at these prices I do not like to take the risk, if I am not so sure, I will pass.

I started to go to strip club and brothels in 1998 in Prague. So I got tons of girls in my life, at the beginning for me it was enough the look, now I care much more about the level of GFE.

In my opinion Rio girls are too professional, for example they almost no dance at all, many seems like to walking around in a circle, they dot no smile and as mine girl in privat dance, she looked herself in the mirror, no kissing at all and when I tried to touch her pussy, I mean her thong, she said no!

I will try more girls in privat dance, but my feeling is that who get GFE with Rio girls is very lucky man, my feeling is that they are spoiled and lazy girls that probably want to earn with just one customer what others girls earn with many customers, cause as I said some of them are really average looking.

In others words if I get a session so and so with mamba girl is ok for me, but from Rio girls I want a session of pure GFE, at Rio prices is the less we can wait.

You said go there early to get a table downstairs?

I have to read again your report, cause we sit down at table at the first floor, I thought higher floor, better girls, isn't it Liljoey?

At first floor, the first floor where the club starts to exist, you have 2 girls and 3 tables one in front of the other, then at same floor a bit more far you have 3 girls and some tables one at the left of the others.

So there are higher floors right?

However Liljoey believe me I would like to take home a Rio girl, but I want to be sure she worth it the money unless I take for the same price 3 girls from mamba. Geography of the Club.

So the boys will not be confused, the layout of the club is as follows:

From the entrance door from the street you will need to descend some steps to the level where directly in front of you is the erntrance to the sushi restaurant. There a security guy is usually standing who will pat you down, and then if you go toward your right there is a coat check and farther in is the "downstairs" dance room with 3 dance poles for 3 dancers at a time and tables to sit on either side. This is the dance room that gets filled with reservations quickly and may be difficult to get in if you don't come early and are not a regular with some connection to the manager running the downstairs room having tipped him 100 grivna in the past a few times. I feel that there are less of what you call the average girls in the downstairs rotation of girls compared to the upstairs rooms, but the girls move from upstairs to downstairs and vice versa on different nights so it is hard to keep track.

From this "downstairs" from the street level you will need to go up a different set of spiral stairs to get to the "upstairs" outer room which has a stage with poles for the dancers. From the upstairs outer room you need to go up a few stairs and go farther in to the building to get to the upstairs inner room which has 3 poles for 3 dancers at a time. The girls upstairs first dance in the inner room and then go to the stage in the outer room, so you will see them regardless of whether you sit in the inner or outer room upstairs, but the inner room is better if you can get in because it is easier to approach a girl while she is dancing on the poles in the inner room to ask her name and if she speaks English and perhaps to join you at your table, than it would be to do so while she is dancing on the stage in the outer room. Regardless of this the manager can always ask the girl for you. The upstairs line up was where I saw a greater number of average girls mixed in with awesome hotties like Gloria, Yanna, Ada, Margo, Dinara, Alisa, Tamara, etc but like I said the next time any of these girls could be dancing the downstairs rotation on a particular night.

The VIP lounge is even further into the building from the upstairs inner dance room. It has two stages each with a dancing pole, and a stage in a small platform box just in front of a large couch on the raised platform. I consider this couch the best for speaking directly to the girls because they are dancing literally just in front of you. Two girls dance the two poles, then they switch poles, then they dance the box, so at any given time there are four girls dancing. The impression I had was that the girls dancing the VIP lounge seemed to be mostly very young petite cute pretty girls with the exception of a few taller hotties like Taya and Rosa.

I have not yet devised a strategy that can assure the best line up will be in front of you, so if you sit for 1 cycle of a rotation until you see the same girls dancing again and you are not impressed, you should pay your tab and ask to be seated in a different room.

The private dances I have had involve the girl stripping down and taking her top off, and I never had a private dance where the bikini bottom was taken off and the girl was totally nude. This is the standard dance. That I not to say you cannot touch her pussy area on top of her bikini, and even be able to insert your fingers under her bikini bottom to touch her pussy. But of course this will depend on the chemistry between you and the girl, as well as whether the girl is in the game to get a date home, or is an ice queen. Realize that a girl that never goes home with customers and only dances, has no incentive to go that far for the 200 grivna fee of the private dance.

A case in point would be my sad experience with Nikita, a truly beautiful girl, tall, model looking brunette with a gorgeous figure. As soon as we were in the private dance and she said no to kissing of her nipples or touching of her privates, and said she only dances, my heart sank. But this just means she is not that night's take out, so on to the next one.

The "lazy dance" you describe, Lukasek, is a studied and choreographed sexy style that the girls actually take lessons to perform, according to one girl I asked about her dancing. They are not really there to "dance" per se, or do ballet, salsa or other actual real dance. Their objective is to grind and move their lithe bodies around in such a way as is calculated to best show their 'ASSets' and to excite the male hormones in the room. I think the style they have chosen does a fairly good job of displaying what they have to offer.

Lukasek, I well recognize the difference between a waste and a calculated risk. I would never steer you in a direction to "burn" your money for no purpose. I think that it is quite evident from my posts that I'm looking for the same thing you are. The best you can do is feel the girl's vibe and chemistry in a private dance, and speak to her about services in as gentlemanly way you can so as not to frighten her off if she thinks you are crude or rough and won't be fun. You can't get a guarantee in advance. Start with a 3 hour session before considering a girl for all night.

LJ

JB1532
05-16-11, 11:16
Spoke to this one recently on Mamba, looking for a sponsor. Didn't discuss the £ and what's on offer as she's not really my type. Just added her to my vkontakte and said I may get in touch when I'm back in-country.

Over to you if anyones interested: http://freerussiandating.us/anketa.phtml?oid=366864284&hit=3

JB

It Travel
05-16-11, 12:30
I woke up and had lunch at il patio, it is a chain and in Russia I went there daily, for not outrageous price they offer very good pasta and pizza.

Then I thought it was time to test mamba, so I started to call, the problem is that most of them do not do BBBJ, something I really love, others are not my type, I love thin girl, others were not answering to telephone.

I found so sad no sex at my second day in Kiev and I was tired to call, I am patient guy but not when I am horny LOL so when enough is enough I just went out in the street and I stop the first taxi I found and I asked him if he has number of salon, the same thing as I did in russia tons of times very successfully!

First taxi said no, he was old man, second one started to call, but I make him clear I want a girl who does BBBJ and he looked to me. As if I asked something really normal. Interesting isn'it? I have the feeling that as a turist, girls not only charge us more but even give us less extra.

To make long short. Finally!

He started to do some calls, then he asked me. 600 grivnas for girl and 100 for me, ok? I knew he cannot do it for free, so I was very happy to tip him, happier than to tip a waitress LOL, so I agree with a smile in my face and he said wait here, in 10 minutes will arrive a car with 2 girls and he left, so easy so fast and so good service LOL.

I took the best one and it was an amazing 1 hour of pure fun, BBBJ but no anal.

However very cheap price or should I say very normal, ukranian price?

She was girl next door, something that in Kiev means a solid 8'.168cm-53kg she said. 21 yo, blond short hair and skin white as snow, blue eyes and a pussy that tasted better than honey, her BBBJ was globoki oral and there is nothing better than a deep throat very wet and without condom, as bonus she was a very good kisser and so friendly, she spoke only Russian but who cares.

I am surprised that was enough just 1 day here to get me back speak Russian as 2 years ago, so I have bigger problem to write here my reports in enough correct english to make you understand me than to order girl, or as I did, to stop taxi and make him work for me.

It is very good feeling I do not have to search for girls who speak english, hardly suggested to invest time learning Russian as it was many times already said here.

Oh as you can imagine the pics here are from girl I got from taxi, she charged me nothing to take pics, she just told me I have a kid, no face.

I start to like the city LOL, even if it is not so easy as I thought and as it should be!

Then at the evening I met with my buddy and we went to il patio again, then we plan was to go to Rio, but we both were too tired, me I slept about 9 hours in 2 days, so we went to sleep.

I want to thank IT Travel for his help by pmSeems a good work, nice skinny pale white (pink tastes poperly!) you forgot to tell us if you properly injected the cum in her throat! Eh eh eh.

I agree a skinny leggy would have been perfect for anal!

A suggestion for mongers. When you find a good taxi driver keep is number (some times you have to take four or five) and call him.

IT

LilJoey
05-16-11, 16:13
I found so sad no sex at my second day in Kiev and I was tired to call, I am patient guy but not when I am horny LOL so when enough is enough I just went out in the street and I stop the first taxi I found and I asked him if he has number of salon, the same thing as I did in russia tons of times very successfully!

She was girl next door, something that in Kiev means a solid 8'.168cm-53kg she said. 21 yo, blond short hair and skin white as snow, blue eyes and a pussy that tasted better than honey, her BBBJ was globoki oral and there is nothing better than a deep throat very wet and without condom, as bonus she was a very good kisser and so friendly, she spoke only Russian but who cares.

Oh as you can imagine the pics here are from girl I got from taxi, she charged me nothing to take pics, she just told me I have a kid, no face. Glad you have finally found a girl in Kiev to take the edge off. The taxi driver is always a good source of information. On my first Kiev visit I had taxi driver take me all over downtown Kiev to about four or five apartments with girls. I didn't pursue this then because I did not think I could communicate since I don't speak Russian. But apartments are something that you could certainly investigate properly, since you speak Russian. I saw some pretty girls in those apartments, so it's probably worth trying for you with a taxi driver. This is where Ukrainian guys go. Another reason I didn't pursue going to apartments with the taxi drivers when I first came to Kiev is that in those days the River Palace was in full swing and I was in heaven seeing all those very pretty and truly hot girls, so I was happy with that scene. But today girl apartments are still a good option for low prices and some good looking girls can be found. You will be able to ask freely about services and whether they include uncovered BJ or "bez preservativ" and no one will look at you funny for asking. Today, if I wasn't so happy with the 10's I have been pulling out of Rio, I had planned to return to take a look at the local girl apartments and to take along with me a list of questions written out in Russian in yes or no answer format that would address my questions about the services available.

Now looking at the pictures you attached of the girl you just had, and reading in your report that you felt she was an "8", it is obvious that either you really like very skinny girls or that you are not more picky than me. So therefore, I would encourage you to try to find a GFE type girl at Rio, because if the skinny girl is an 8 in your scale, then there are definitely 10+'s for you at Rio. And yes, there are some girls who only dance and don't go home with customers for sex, and such girls would probably not give a good private dance with lots of touching either. But this is where a good relationship with the managers comes into play. Because a manager can help steer you towards girls that do go out with customers, although they don't know about every girl, especially new girls. But they do know about girls who their customers have given feedback that the girls were good. And in addition to that when you get a private dance from a girl and she is responsive to your touch and appears to enjoy being touched and allows you to go further, and if you ask if you can kiss her breasts and she smiles at you and nods "yes" and you see that your kisses of her nipples are giving her pleasure and turning her on, and she does not push aeway your fingers when they brush her pussy area, or even when your fingers slip underneath her bikini to GENTLY caress her pussy, and she moans in your ear as you are doing this to her, and she has her knee or even her hand on your pants grabbing your (by now) rock hard penis, and when you look her in the eyes and ask her if she will come home with you she smiles and nods "yes". Don't you think, Lukasek, that such a girl feels like she will be a totally GFE experience if you take her home. There is a world of difference between such a sexy encounter during a private dance like I have tried to describe, to the sorry excuse for a girl it was your misfortune to take a private dance from the last time you went to Rio. I have had both kinds of dance, but usually it's the hot sexy kind of dance because I try to choose well which girls I even invite for a private dance. Usually it is a girl that the manager (who I always tip 100 grivna) said was good, then I have spoken with her at my table for a while and I have a feeling for her already. Be encouraged by my reports, by Tango9001's reports, by Insomniaque's recent words, because it is true. There are some wondferful girls at Rio.

BBBJ.. To be honest, I have had four girls from Rio already, each one multiple times. Only one of them didn't do BBBJ from the start, and she still doesn't, but she is soooo beautiful and sex with her is otherwise awesome, so what the fuck, you know? Anyways, for you, Lukasek, if BBBJ is absolutely necessary and you will consider it a waste and burning of money if the BJ from a hot stripper gorgeous 10 model ends up being a covered BJ, even if the intercourse fucking part of the session is awesome and very satisfying and many positions, and an awesomely beautiful young girl is screaming and orgasming because of the thrusts of your very experienced penis and she is cumming all over the place, and thinks you are a sex god. If even still it is all a waste to you. Then you will have to find a way to ask about the possibilities of the uncovered BJ, while you are still with her in the club. You can try asking directly! But then you run the risk of chasing away a girl who would probably have given you a BBBJ in the heat of sex back at your apartment, but wouldn't admit it when talking about it clinically or business like in advance, and you might lose out this way. On the other hand if you don't want to risk the direct approach, maybe you can find some way to talk about the subject generally to get her to express her views about what she likes in oral sex. It's possible you can get an idea of what will happen if you bring her home. Just some thoughts. I am wrestling with the same issue of how to know in advance about BBBJ with girls from Rio.

Let us know if you decide to check out the girl apartments with a taxi driver, and if you find any beauties that way and the address and location of each apartment.

Good hunting. Hope your remaining days in Kiev will be as memorable for you as mine were for me.

LJ

FamaIt
05-16-11, 21:12
Hi Guys,

So I've been reading the forums and here is my question:

I am a brown Canadian who can speak fluent English but no word of Russian. I was planning on having a 2 day stopover at Kiev enroute home. While I have done this in Dubai many times (there even the Ukranian girls speak english) , I do not know how my lack of Russian (or whiteness) would impact my ability to pick up girl from say Rio or any other club. I know the clubs there have a face policy so I might have some issues getting in (I read someone in the forum also had this problem). How prevalent is this?

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Insomniaque
05-16-11, 22:00
When you get a private dance from a girl and she is responsive to your touch and appears to enjoy being touched and allows you to go further, and if you ask if you can kiss her breasts and she smiles at you and nods "yes" and you see that your kisses of her nipples are giving her pleasure and turning her on, and she does not push aeway your fingers when they brush her pussy area, or even when your fingers slip underneath her bikini to GENTLY caress her pussy, and she moans in your ear as you are doing this to her, and she has her knee or even her hand on your pants grabbing your (by now) rock hard penis, and when you look her in the eyes and ask her if she will come home with you she smiles and nods "yes"A few more lines like this and I'll have to beat the bishop. OMFG.

Private dances can indeed vary from one girl / customer to another. Mine have always ended up naked and I was allowed to play with the tits as well, but no access to the pink. = (

Also had some fantastic DFK once, but it was with one I had already had sex with, so I suppose it doesn't really count.

Freaking awesome experience, anyway.

Do you think private dance areas are being watched? I mean, if you really got on with it, would bouncers instantly materialize to kick the shit out of you?

Insomniaque
05-16-11, 22:06
I am a brown Canadian who can speak fluent English but no word of Russian. I was planning on having a 2 day stopover at Kiev enroute home. While I have done this in Dubai many times (there even the Ukranian girls speak english) , I do not know how my lack of Russian (or whiteness) would impact my ability to pick up girl from say Rio or any other club. I know the clubs there have a face policy so I might have some issues getting in (I read someone in the forum also had this problem). How prevalent is this?The only club where face control (I mean racism) is indeed an issue is Shooters. Not the slightest problem in any other places I have been to, including Rio of course.

Some girls speak English, some others don't. But even if you don't speak a word of Russian (which is my case) you'll find more girls to fuck than you can handle, don't worry about that =)
(This is mainly true for clubs. With girls from Mamba/top-modals/etc. language is much more of an issue.)

AZN Monger
05-16-11, 22:41
Beware! I was with her recently. Bad investment!


Spoke to this one recently on Mamba, looking for a sponsor. Didn't discuss the £ and what's on offer as she's not really my type. Just added her to my vkontakte and said I may get in touch when I'm back in-country.

Over to you if anyones interested:

http://freerussiandating.us/anketa.phtml?oid=366864284&hit=3

JB

LilJoey
05-17-11, 02:56
A few more lines like this and I'll have to beat the bishop. OMFG.

Private dances can indeed vary from one girl / customer to another. Mine have always ended up naked and I was allowed to play with the tits as well, but no access to the pink. = (

Also had some fantastic DFK once, but it was with one I had already had sex with, so I suppose it doesn't really count.

Freaking awesome experience, anyway.

Do you think private dance areas are being watched? I mean, if you really got on with it, would bouncers instantly materialize to kick the shit out of you? Hi Insomniaque, if I have entertained or amused you with my post, that was one of my goals. But after reading about Lukasek's lousy experience in a private dance with an unresponsive girl, I wanted to describe for him a little glimpse of the way a good private dance could be and should be, so that he is encouraged to try again and he doesn't miss out on what I know is available at Rio, having experienced it myself.

So you are saying that the bikini bottom comes off routinely in the private dance? The girl takes it off herself or you ask her to and she complies? Are you doing more than one dance session?

By "if you really got on with it" I'm assuming you mean unzipping, taking it out and slipping it in. Did you get the sense that any girl was ready to hop on? Or even directly touch your dick with her hand or go down on you in a private dance situation? I think that probably if the girl thinks the room is being watched she wouldn't gop that far. I never tried offering the girl money to go farther though. I wonder what could be the limits at Rio in a private dance. Since they want the $300 fee, I'm assuming the policy is no sex in the club.

FamaIt
05-17-11, 03:54
The only club where face control (I mean racism) is indeed an issue is Shooters. Not the slightest problem in any other places I have been to, including Rio of course.

Some girls speak English, some others don't. But even if you don't speak a word of Russian (which is my case) you'll find more girls to fuck than you can handle, don't worry about that =)

(This is mainly true for clubs. With girls from Mamba / top-modals / etc. Language is much more of an issue.)Ok so this means I should stay with Rio or some of the other clubs mentioned here.

One question though, how do you communicate then. Specially with regards to rates or positions etc. Just curious

FamaIt
05-17-11, 05:33
And also, is Vit V available over the counter in pharmacies? Any idea of average price?

Insomniaque
05-17-11, 08:43
So you are saying that the bikini bottom comes off routinely in the private dance? The girl takes it off herself or you ask her to and she complies? Are you doing more than one dance session?

By "if you really got on with it" I'm assuming you mean unzipping, taking it out and slipping it in. Did you get the sense that any girl was ready to hop on? Or even directly touch your dick with her hand or go down on you in a private dance situation? I think that probably if the girl thinks the room is being watched she wouldn't gop that far. I never tried offering the girl money to go farther though. I wonder what could be the limits at Rio in a private dance. Since they want the $300 fee, I'm assuming the policy is no sex in the club. I don't ask for anything, she takes it off herself. I am not sure to understand what you mean by "more than once dance session"? Private dances should last two songs: the first song is topless, and when the second one starts, the bottom will be taken off; so the first song is a starter, and the second song is the main course. A move to savour is when the girl turns her back, puts her knees on the sofa on both sides of you and bends forwards until she leans her hands on the floor, and then slowly moves her pelvis backwards and forwards. Sea and garden view! Or when she gets onto the sofa with her heels so that her pussy will be only centimeters away from your tongue. (Christ, I am going to choke the chicken again.)

I don't think such treats have something to do with chemistry, since I once got them from an ice queen who otherwise stayed cold as hell (no eye-contact, no smiles etc.). I would rather suppose they depend on your behaviour, that is to say, whether you show yourself to be very forward or, on the contrary, quite respectful. During private dances I always stay miles away from a straight to business approach, I imagine it makes the girls feel comfortable, like "ok, it's quite safe with that one", so they will let themselves go a little bit more. Or maybe is it that since I do not play Tex Avery's wolf right from the start, they will put some more effort into the show so as to secure a take-out which is not yet guaranteed. I don't know.

By "to get on with it" I didn't mean slipping it in, this would go way too far and private shows don't last enough time anyway. I was rather thinking of a hand / blow job. (For free.) This is out of of the question with a girl you have never taken out; but with an old friend, why not? The second dance I had with Erika (after we had fucked) was pretty hot; I bet a real GFE could go that far. The main issue I think would be their fear of the people they work for.

Insomniaque
05-17-11, 08:56
One question though, how do you communicate then. Specially with regards to rates or positions etc. Just curiousIn English, obviously. Very few girls will speak an even conversational English, but they are likely to know what they need to know: "how much","expensive","blowjob with / without condom","anal" etc. That will be pretty much their English exhausted, but it will be enough for your purpose. As long as you don't question them about Shakespeare's latter works, you should be alright =)

Figge03
05-17-11, 09:06
Spoke to this one recently on Mamba, looking for a sponsor. Didn't discuss the £ and what's on offer as she's not really my type. Just added her to my vkontakte and said I may get in touch when I'm back in-country.

Over to you if anyones interested:

http://freerussiandating.us/anketa.phtml?oid=366864284&hit=3

JBHow did you found her on Vkontakte? Name? You have more "interesting" friends on vkontakte?

TheKnight
05-17-11, 10:28
Spoke to this one recently on Mamba, looking for a sponsor. Didn't discuss the £ and what's on offer as she's not really my type. Just added her to my vkontakte and said I may get in touch when I'm back in-country.

Over to you if anyones interested:

http://freerussiandating.us/anketa.phtml?oid=366864284&hit=3

JBThanks for contact, but I got fed up with this one. Too many messages, too many complications, restrictions, change of plan etc. Other easier, better looking options. So we never met.

TheKnight
05-17-11, 10:37
The private dances I have had involve the girl stripping down and taking her top off, and I never had a private dance where the bikini bottom was taken off and the girl was totally nude. This is the standard dance. That I not to say you cannot touch her pussy area on top of her bikini, and even be able to insert your fingers under her bikini bottom to touch her pussy. But of course this will depend on the chemistry between you and the girl, as well as whether the girl is in the game to get a date home, or is an ice queen. Realize that a girl that never goes home with customers and only dances, has no incentive to go that far for the 200 grivna fee of the private dance.

LJI am amazed at this revelation from LJ + Lukasek. I have always had a full nude private dance at Rio for past few years. Since before the fire!

I did not know they were allowed to remain with g-string on. I would have complained to Pasha if that had happened to me!

Is Pasha still there? Shame if not. All those tips I gave him, he finally starts to recognise me!

And $300 is not necessarily for just 3 hours. That is minimum in my view.

Lukasek commented about Rio's lack of advertising. Quite simply they don't need to. Mostly Premier Palace advertises its' rip off "cabaret". Solid Gold did some advertising when it was new, and Rhino places advertise. Rio is well known with locals and regular visitors alike.

Finally another question for those in the know. Has Mandarin reopened? Or any other reports from Rio's second club?

Insomniaque
05-17-11, 12:07
Is Pasha still there? Shame if not. All those tips I gave him, he finally starts to recognise me!Seems the whole staff has changed, as a matter of fact. On my last visit I saw none of the guys I had conscientiously made friends with. Pity.

JB1532
05-17-11, 12:24
Thanks for contact, but I got fed up with this one. Too many messages, too many complications, restrictions, change of plan etc. Other easier, better looking options. So we never met.No problemo chief. I actually found her as she kept looking at my page so I messaged her with the old "why look and not write" chestnut.

Not really my type though, so thought I'd pass her on (the phrase "throw her to the wolves" never came to mind. Honest.

JB

LilJoey
05-17-11, 14:56
I don't ask for anything, she takes it off herself. I am not sure to understand what you mean by "more than once dance session"? Private dances should last two songs: the first song is topless, and when the second one starts, the bottom will be taken off; so the first song is a starter, and the second song is the main course. A move to savour is when the girl turns her back, puts her knees on the sofa on both sides of you and bends forwards until she leans her hands on the floor, and then slowly moves her pelvis backwards and forwards. Sea and garden view! Or when she gets onto the sofa with her heels so that her pussy will be only centimeters away from your tongue. (Christ, I am going to choke the chicken again.)

I don't think such treats have something to do with chemistry, since I once got them from an ice queen who otherwise stayed cold as hell (no eye-contact, no smiles etc.). I would rather suppose they depend on your behaviour, that is to say, whether you show yourself to be very forward or, on the contrary, quite respectful. During private dances I always stay miles away from a straight to business approach, I imagine it makes the girls feel comfortable, like "ok, it's quite safe with that one", so they will let themselves go a little bit more. Or maybe is it that since I do not play Tex Avery's wolf right from the start, they will put some more effort into the show so as to secure a take-out which is not yet guaranteed. I don't know.

By "to get on with it" I didn't mean slipping it in, this would go way too far and private shows don't last enough time anyway. I was rather thinking of a hand / blow job. (For free.) This is out of of the question with a girl you have never taken out; but with an old friend, why not? The second dance I had with Erika (after we had fucked) was pretty hot; I bet a real GFE could go that far. The main issue I think would be their fear of the people they work for. Perhaps the difference in our experiences does indeed have to do with the differences in our own behavior in a private dance. I am not laid back at all! But rather I push the envelope to see what is possible. I'm beginning to think that I haven't given the girls a chance to remove their bikini bottom for the 2nd song of the private dance, because my fingers were already all over her pussy during the first dance while I was suckling and flicking my tongue all over her nipples and kissing her on the lips. I guess since I set my goal as seeing how far she would let me go and I took control of where her body was to be located for my purposes (usually facing me kneeling with one knee on either side of me pelvis to pelvis, so I could easily kiss her breasts and reach around to her bottom at the same time) I may have sidetracked the girls from some of their normal dance routine. So perhaps you are correct about the normal private dance routine and in that the bikini bottom will be taken off for the 2nd song. Perhaps next time I'm in Kiev I shall make it a point to remain more restrained in my behavior just to see what the girl will do on her own-

I remember the following managers being on duty during my visits in the end of April 2011- Dima, Pasha, Slava and one other fellow of slight build with black short cut hair whose name has slipped my mind and I hadn't taken his number.

I wonder what is possible in terms of hand job or blow job during private dance for an offer of more money to the girl during the dance in exchange for such favors?

LJ

Insomniaque
05-17-11, 18:29
Perhaps the difference in our experiences does indeed have to do with the differences in our own behavior in a private dance. I am not laid back at all! But rather I push the envelope to see what is possible. I'm beginning to think that I haven't given the girls a chance to remove their bikini bottom for the 2nd song of the private dance, because my fingers were already all over her pussy during the first dance while I was suckling and flicking my tongue all over her nipples and kissing her on the lips. I guess since I set my goal as seeing how far she would let me go and I took control of where her body was to be located for my purposes (usually facing me kneeling with one knee on either side of me pelvis to pelvis, so I could easily kiss her breasts and reach around to her bottom at the same time) I may have sidetracked the girls from some of their normal dance routine. So perhaps you are correct about the normal private dance routine and in that the bikini bottom will be taken off for the 2nd song. Perhaps next time I'm in Kiev I shall make it a point to remain more restrained in my behavior just to see what the girl will do on her own-Clearly I am much more restrained than you are. For me it's rather like,"Alright, now show me what you can do!" I don't interfere that much with the routine, as you call it; I want to enjoy the show and I rely on the way the girl moves to tell me whether the fuck is going to be good, bad, average or exceptional. Is it jerky? Sensual? Impassive? Creative? It's up to the girl to convince me I should take her out rather than one of her friends; also, there can be a specific pleasure in holding yourself back, knowing that her time will soon come."That's it, sweetheart, tease me to death, you don't know yet what you're going to take." =) So it's a different perspective. I guess there is some good and some bad in our respective techniques.

Prosal
05-17-11, 20:23
Heaps of talking about a nasty strip club.

Has the freebie market all dried up in Kiev, so that not a single report about non-pro scoring has been posted since weeks?

LilJoey
05-17-11, 20:40
I rely on the way the girl moves to tell me whether the fuck is going to be good, bad, average or exceptional. Is it jerky? Sensual? Impassive? Creative? .Are you saying that if during the private dance the girl moves like a jerky klutz, that it is your feeling that she will likely be goofy in bed, and not such a good lay? Probably true, but then again sometimes when I see a girl that I think is a little goofy, I assume she has not had a big sex life, and it's a turn on to think that when I do my stuff to this inexperienced girl, that it will send her into orbit and the result can be even more sexy.

But I guess that if you see that the girl dances and moves in a way that is sexy in your eyes it could show that she is a sexy and sensual person in her essence and has the capability and potential for giving a sexy experience in bed.

On the other hand, my concern is that her sexy style and the sexy bedroom experience she has the potential to deliver might be reserved for the right guy only, with whom she feels a mutual attraction.

Therefore what I want to know most is how she feels towards ME in particular. Being a 50-something year old guy with some extra pounds, does this sexy 20-something year old girl have a good sexy vibe toward me? Does she get turned on from my touch and sexual advances? If she does, then not only do I know she can be sexy, I know she will be sexy with me too.

I'm also curious about what TheKnight wrote that $300 is a minimum 3 hours! That implies one can get more than 3 hours. Is this true? How many hours is possible? The girls ask $400 to stay all night, which can mean until 5am or till later in morning. What is the right way to handle this to get her to stay until next morning for $300? Can it be done?

Mandarin was not yet open as of May 2, but a little while ago I posted a report about a visit to Rio's sister club, Paradise (see also report by Tango9001).

LJ

ATexGuy
05-18-11, 04:03
Day 1.

I arrived in Kiev via British Airways on a cold rainy Friday afternoon and quickly learned that I wasn't in Kansas anymore. I read this forum for weeks prior to my trip and thought I was prepared for what I was about to experience, but I was quickly overwhelmed by Kiev in so many ways.

As I read on this forum and it couldn't be more true, very few people in Kiev speaking any English. I learned this quickly the moment I stepped outside of customs in the airport. Admittedly, I was a little reluctant to take any of the taxis outside of the airport and opted to take the bus down to the train station. The bus was horrible! I was packed in the back next to some guy that hadn't bathed in days. At the train station, I was forced to get a taxi to my hotel and ended up getting ripped off thanks in no part to the help of the doorman at the Intercontinental. Since these taxis do not have meters like most cities in the world, I quickly learned to always ask upfront how much the taxi ride would be to my desired destination. Since most taxi drivers don't speak English, I even had an address (written in Russian letters) of my destination to hand them and ask how much before I got in the taxi.

I was only in Kiev for three nights and I stayed at the Intercontinental on Friday and Saturday before moving over to the Hyatt on Sunday morning. Both hotels are very nice and quite expensive. I would recommend the Intercontinental over the Hyatt only because the rooms at the Hyatt were smaller.

My plan for my first night was to hit Rio around 9pm and then move on to D'Lux around midnight. I had communicated with many girls on Mamba for a couple weeks, but I soon learned that many girls had the same phone numbers and were also listed on the escort web sites. Not having time for any games, I was going to seek out the ladies on Kiev in person at the clubs.

I arrived at Rio shortly after opening. I was given a table near the upstairs bar and saw many attractive women on stage. I was curious about the VIP room as well as the room downstairs, but even though it was slow, they wouldn't let me into either initially.

Rio Club is not a typical strip club in my opinion. First, it's very clear that the managers control EVERYTHING that goes on in this club. If you take care of the managers, they will take care of you. Realizing that the managers didn't know me, I took some advice from this forum and invested in building some relationships with Pasha and a couple of managers / hosts. This proved to be a wise investment, as I went from being treated like a second class citizen to being treated like a rock star. I was quickly brought into the VIP and was offered any table I wanted and any girl that I wanted.

Unlike any other clubs I have ever been to, dancers at this club don't really approach customers and they don't loiter around the club. If a girl is not on stage or sitting at a table at the invitation of a customer, they are off-stage in the dressing room. Also, it appears that the girls are assigned to work the stages in specific rooms for the evening. Girls in the VIP worked in the VIP only and I never saw girls from downstairs in the VIP unless they were invited to join a customer in the VIP. Needless to say, if you see a girl on stage that you like, get her name because you may not see her again until it's her turn on stage again or she's invited to sit with another guy. Tell the manager that you would like her to join you at your table or for a private dance, and she'll be with you once she finishes on stage.

As for the private dances, it is two songs for 200 UAH and the dances are in a separate room. In the VIP, you can opt to stay at your table and have the manager curtain off your booth as well. Personally, I think the dances were amazing! You can touch everywhere except between the legs (when totally nude) but they will definitely touch you exactly in the right place.

Admittedly, I was a little overwhelmed by Rio and the talent that I was seeing. I got dances from several smoking hot girls. I was having a blast but was totally exhausted and decided to take a Rio girl back to my hotel rather than leave and go to D'Lux. I decided to take a nice girl that provided me with some of the best dances. She agreed to go for the 2400 UAH and I told her that I needed to go to the ATM to get a little more money. On my way back upstairs I noticed a hot blonde that I had seen earlier in the night but never reappeared. She was sitting at a table with some guys. Knowing that my other girl was sitting at my table and waiting for me to return, I knew I was pressed for time. At my request, the manager went over to the table and asked her to join me for a private dance. It turns out, this hot blonde was the Yanna that many speak of on this forum. Unfortunately, Yanna was not available that night to go with me and told me that she would go with me on Saturday night if I came back. A little disappointed, I went back to my table in the VIP and no surprise, my other girl was gone. I asked the manager to bring her back, but when she arrived she no longer was interested in leaving with me or even doing more private dances. There was nothing I could do to change her mind and again was told tomorrow. When she left my table, the manager came over and asked if everything was okay. I informed him that she wasn't interested in hanging out with me. He asked if I wanted to hang out with her and I told him yes. He told me to go into the private room and wait. Two minutes later she walked in and seemed pissed. I told her she didn't need to dance and she said, 'no, you are the customer' and then started another amazing dance. At the end of the dances, she asked if I still wanted to go to my hotel. I said yes, handed her 2400 UAH and went back to my table. About ten minutes later, the VIP manager came to my table and told me she was at the front door waiting for me. When I met her at the front door she was wearing tight jeans and sexy pumps. I knew the night was only going to get better.

In the taxi on our way to the Intercontinental, she was very affectionate. Inside the hotel room, she opted for a shower (amazing showers at that hotel) and then came out in a white bathrobe. The next two hours proved to be one of the best experiences that I have had with a lady in some time. She let me go until I couldn't go again and then showered and called a taxi. She left me her number and told me to call her if I wanted to see her the next evening.

ATexGuy
05-18-11, 04:12
Day 2.

Another cold and rainy day in Kiev and I wasn't interested in doing any site seeing. I got up and walked down the street to MTC to get a SIM card and then went back to my hotel and started to work the numbers I had for some afternoon activities. After a couple of hours, I threw in the towel and called the Rio girl from the night before and left a message. I got some extra sleep and then woke to a call from my Rio girl. We agreed to spend the evening together. While I did not anticipate seeing the same girl repeatedly, I liked this girl and we had a great connection. We were together from about 8pm until about 5am. It was this night that I learned how things at Rio really work, as my girl finally shared some of the secrets that most on this forum have already figured out. Overall, it was a great night!

Day 3.

I checked out of the Intercontinental and headed over to the Hyatt. I had a quick lunch and then opted for some more sleep. I woke and then took a quick walk and stumbled up Rio. I didn't realize how close I was actually staying to Rio. It's literally a 5-10 minute walk from the Hyatt.

Weighing my options for the night and realizing that I was really starting to feel something for the girl that I had been with the last two nights (that I didn't want to feel) , I decided to hit some other places on my last night. I was told by the concierge at the Hyatt that D'Lux was closed to private parties on Sunday nights. I decided to go to Buddha Bar and it was very quiet at 9pm this Sunday. I then went over to Millenium and wasn't impressed. It was very small, the talent was just okay and the dances were 300 UAH compared to Rio at 200 UAH. I headed off to Solid Gold and again wasn't impressed. I think I was the only guy in the club at 11pm. Realizing that it was getting late, I decided to head to Rio to see what was up.

When I went into Rio I decided to hang out in the lower level room since my girl from the other night was probably working up in the VIP. I was praying I'the see something I liked and be off to the Hyatt with a girl, but I wasn't seeing anything I liked. I gave up and went up to the VIP and saw a very hot lady that apparently was new. We sat together and had the manager curtain off our booth for some private dances. After several dances, I opened up the curtain and immediately came upon the girl I had seen the last two nights and she was sitting at a table with a customer. We made eye contact with each other and then I went back downstairs realizing that I had made a big mistake. Moments later I learned that the customer she was with had already paid her for the night, so I would not be able to see her again before I left. And wouldn't you know, she looked so amazing that night.

The remainder of the night I decided to just get dances since I wasn't seeing anyone that I wanted to take to my hotel. There are some girls at Rio that only dance, and yes, they give the best dances. I got dances from Daudia, Linda and Lupa and they were great! Linda might have been available to go, but she didn't speak any English and seemed uncomfortable with the language barrier. Lupa is a sweet little lady that only dances but I highly recommend her if that's all you want. I really enjoyed her company and made me feel better about not taking the other girl for a third night. I left Rio around 5am and decided to walk back to the Hyatt.

Overall, my Kiev experience was relatively limited to Rio, but it's an overwhelming experience inside that club. I am not sure if I would go back to Kiev, as it's really not that appealing of a city beyond the sexy women.

Eros74
05-18-11, 08:33
Heaps of talking about a nasty strip club.

Has the freebie market all dried up in Kiev, so that not a single report about non-pro scoring has been posted since weeks? Ty drug cital muj gulava :D

It seems now exist only Rio in Kiev, so I do not really know if I can write a report about something else LOL.

Just 2 lines more:

2 days ago was my birthday and the last thing I expect at first date was to receive a gift from a regular girl from mamba when we met in the afternoon, she is really my type, so let's see, but even more, I do not think it happens often to receive a present from them, so used to get and not to give, but she is probably different. Or does she saw I am different from the other mongers too? LOL.

Last line, buddha bar looks very nice inside and has nice girls, around 12-15 on monday but many of them are surely not worst than the ones in Rio and for 150 euro they stay till morning....without tip anybody....

Back to Rio again now, just one thing, on monday night there were a lot of customers, much more than on saturday, I saw about 7-8 girls went away with normal clothes in less than 1 hours ( I was with my buddy upstairs on the first floor and they used this stair to go down ).
What was interesting is that in normal clothes they do not like much better than girls you can see walking on kreschiatik, I really believe for many customers rio girls are so that amazing-cute-special..... cause they are drunk, girls are almost naked and probably they got just few and average girls in all their life.....otherwise I cannot explain why people love so much Rio.

p.s. on monday night the first 2 taxy I stopped have no idea where rio is and we were not far,just in mandarina plaza, the third one asked me if the street is, i do not remember, i told him not far from metro teatralnaya and he understood.
However even for locals is not so that famous as here you could think....

Insomniaque
05-18-11, 13:26
Heaps of talking about a nasty strip club.

Has the freebie market all dried up in Kiev, so that not a single report about non-pro scoring has been posted since weeks? The nasty strip-club is from where I got my best shag ever, so yes, I could still talk about it for ages. =) Sorry for the inconvenience = (

As for freebies. A time-consuming hobby. I do my best and go on the prowl on Mamba, and the least I can say is that, so far, it has not quite been worth the investment. And I hardly think I can go and really hunt down the freebie in clubs either; when you are in Kiev for a short stay, you want to secure some good shags; I can't afford the risk to waste my precious evenings in attempts to score for free.

I agree with Lukasek's statement. Out of context, Rio girls are not that much better-looking than the average Ukrainian chick. And I won't try to make a point; there are those who know how special a fuck with a strip-teaser can be, and those who don't. But to each his own.

Prosal
05-18-11, 13:52
And I won't try to make a point; there are those who know how special a fuck with a strip-teaser can be, and those who don't. But to each his own.Well, I agree, I myself date a (statuesque) Russian stripper currently, she is fun and a real porn-queen in bed. I like strippers. And there's many opportunities with strippers in FSU, as long as you treat them with respect and kindness and have some game. Furthermore having a stripper as a regular "fuck-buddy" is a very good position in that even if you go to a non-pro disco or have a date and say don't get any that night, you always have your stripper to fall back on in the morning.

That said, I totally disagree with your other statement. It is grotesque to state that fucking freebies and fucking pros is the same. It simply isn't. But to each its own, as you correctly indicated.

151251

Eros74
05-18-11, 14:43
...I agree with Lukasek's statement. Out of context, Rio girls are not that much better-looking than the average Ukrainian chick...Thanks. I am happy I am not the only one thinking in this way.

If we keep on speaking only about Rio like this, they should pay us :D

Haint69
05-18-11, 16:17
Since there seems to be more activity here, I am going to repost this here in hopes of getting a reply.

I am a black man from the US who wants to meet a girl from close to Odessa I have been communicating with for a while. Plus I want to get some hot escort action! I feel like I could get an honest opinion here about what my experience might be like. Can anyone give me any insight? I mean no disrespect to anyone, there is just not a lot out there about this subject.

Eros74
05-18-11, 16:27
Considering how much ukranian and also russians BTW, are racist I'd think twice if I was you.

I saw zero black persons in 2 weeks in odessa and in 5 days in Kiev and so far as you can be very interesting for girls, pay attention here a bit more than elsewhere in west europe.

Then if the foto you posted here is the foto of the girl you are going to to meet, have you consider that maybe she is a scam?

Haint69
05-18-11, 16:45
Considering how much ukranian and also russians BTW, are racist I'd think twice if I was you.

I saw zero black persons in 2 weeks in odessa and in 5 days in Kiev and so far as you can be very interesting for girls, pay attention here a bit more than elsewhere in west europe.

Then if the foto you posted here is the foto of the girl you are going to to meet, have you consider that maybe she is a scam? No, it's really her. We have been Skyping for about a year and a half. LOL, that is just one of hundred naked photos I have of her. I wanted to go to Dominican, but she wants me to come meet her there first. Hard decision.

Eros74
05-18-11, 17:20
No, it's really her. We have been Skyping for about a year and a half. LOL, that is just one of hundred naked photos I have of her. I wanted to go to Dominican, but she wants me to come meet her there first. Hard decision.Such a long time invested for one girl without meet her it is really a pity, I know it is not easy to decide, good luck for your decision and if it will be Kiev, report us ;)

LilJoey
05-18-11, 19:10
buddha bar looks very nice inside and has nice girls, around 12-15 on Monday but many of them are surely not worst than the ones in Rio and for 150 euro they stay till morning. Without tip anybody.

Back to Rio again now,

What was interesting is that in normal clothes they do not like much better than girls you can see walking on kreschiatik, I really believe for many customers Rio girls are so that amazing-cute-special. Cause they are drunk, girls are almost naked and probably they got just few and average girls in all their life. Otherwise I cannot explain why people love so much Rio. Dear Lukasek,

First Happy Birthday! Give yourself a present and try to take home from Rio at least one girl who you consider a 9 or 10 even when you're not drunk. Looking at the pictures of the girl you felt should be given an "8" I know you will be able to find some 9's and 10's at Rio. Then maybe you won't still want to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) on our parade-LOL.

I cannot constrain myself from responding to your last comments because I feel they are not giving the right picture to those who don't know from experience and are reading this forum for information to base their travel and mongering plans on.

I'll begin by saying that there is a truth in what you wrote about the difference when you see a stripper naked on a stage versus how the same girl looks when she is dressed in street clothes. I noticed this phenomenon long time ago in NY when I saw what the same strippers looked like as they came out of the strip club after 4am closing and were standing around in the coffee shop next to the strip club waiting for a coffee just as I was and they were of course dressed in their street clothes. Many did not look nearly as "hot" as they had looked just a short time before running around in the strip club in a sexy form-fitting evening gown or dancing topless on stage. This is a true observation, because I am never drunk, as the most I will drink there is 1 beer which I never even finish, because I'm there to see the girls and not waste money on overpriced drinks. But there is a SOLUTION! Take the girl home and get her naked again. Her sexy body will be back in front of you inspiring you to do all sorts of wonderful things to her-LOL.

But you wrote,"what was interesting is that in normal clothes they do not like much better than girls you can see walking on kreschiatik". What makes your statement technically true is your use of the word "CAN". You CAN sometimes see some truly hot women walking on kreshatik, I'm talking about girls who are 9's or 10's with perfect asses, flat stomachs, very pretty faces etc, but this is not a usual or all the time thing and most of the women on kreshatik at any given moment are not hotties.

Conversely, inside a strip club, a location dedicated to collecting there young hot girls, the percentage of really awesome looking girls, is much higher than on the street, even a street like kreshatik, and so in this respect what you wrote is misleading, because I'm sure you would agree there is a much higher percentage of really hot women in a strip club, than there is on a given section of kreshatik containing the same total number of women. But this is not to say that even in a strip club like Rio, there are not some number of girls who are not outrageously sexy and beautiful, but are just average good looking girls of the type you would just pass by on kreshatik. The key distinction here is for all to know that you will not find on kreshatik at any time, a collection in one place together of such beautiful women (9's and 10's) as you will find inside the strip club. That's the truth, and to the extent what you wrote implies otherwise, it was misleading.

Another crucial distinction is that in Rio, many of these 9's and 10's are available to take home for sex for a fee just for the asking, whereas try that to a beauty walking on kreshatik and you will not get far.

What you wrote about girls that can be met in nightclubs, like Buddha Bar, is also a little misleading. You wrote,"buddha bar looks very nice inside and has nice girls, around 12-15 on Monday but many of them are surely not worst than the ones in Rio and for 150 euro they stay till morning. Without tip anybody." While it is true that girls who are as pretty as the strippers in Rio can be met in nightclubs, it is unlikely that such 9's and 10's would agree to less than $400, or maybe $300 for 2 hours. That's the way it has been even since the days of the River Palace for the truly spectacular looking girls. There are recent reports on this thread indicating that the normal standard price of nightclub girls is now not less than 1 hour for $200. It is only possible to get lower prices from girls who don't look as good, or when it is very late at night. No one else has reported that the super hot girls who ask $400 and $300 for 1 or 2 hours in nightclubs, have stayed the whole night (I. E. Many hours) for that fee. If you had a girl stay all night for 150 Euro (about $225 USD) I am relatively sure that what you are probably talking about is a very average looking girl like your "8" from your earlier report, which is not the type of girl who others are referring to when we talk about a 9 or 10 at Rio or Buddha Bar.

So for all you readers out there, the pricing on a per hour basis for a girl who is a 9 or 10, is still lower at Rio ($100 USD per hour) than the rates being asked by equivalently hot nightclub girls ($150.$200 USD per hour) , but at Rio you must take a 3 hour minimum, whereas the nightclub girls usually quote a $400 price which is for 2 hours, or a $300 price for 2 hours, or as has been recently reported a $200 price for 1 hour. For lower level of beauty for average girls it is true, you can pay less than the above prices of the hottest girls, and if that is enough for you, then you will be satisfied with an average looking girl who gives good service. This you can also get on top-modals. Com and mamba. Ru with a little trial and error effort. But for those looking to shag spectacular looking Ukrainian super model types (9's and 10's) the prices are as above, and they can be found in strip clubs like Rio, or in nightclubs like D'lux and others. Those are the facts as I have experienced them recently (April / May 2011)

LJ.

Mystery77
05-18-11, 19:35
Heaps of talking about a nasty strip club.

Has the freebie market all dried up in Kiev, so that not a single report about non-pro scoring has been posted since weeks? We should have a extra forum selection. Entitled RIO "ONLY" =) It was interesting learning about every detail. However this club seems to be a passion for some. Wish that other strip club was still open I hear about time to time. What was the name again. Closed down & may re-open at a later date, supposedly better than Rio.

I made the passion for the pushing with a 22 year old face makeup model couple days back. & yes! Yes! It was a freebie.

Mystery77
05-18-11, 20:14
Okay well . The activity between lady & myself has been slim. In the last 3-4 days, the first of. We spoke over the phone, her friend from "Russia" was down a guy as she mentioned. A good friend who is so SMART! He speaks Russian, Dutch, & English so well! Instantly with no doubt the voice tone & everything else. Trying to build jealousy. We were going to go out. But of course because she has not seen him for so long, she has to make the time for him. I considered saying well lets all get together, we can communicate very nicely as her English is so-so. But I decided not to put myself forwards, & said well okay you enjoy yourself & we'll talk tomorrow. Lady asked if I'd call her. I said fine arranged for the afternoon. I woke up early in the morning. I decided to send her a text regarding our meeting for later. & told her to let me know. No reply was forwarded later to myself. So I decided not to make the phone call, not to pursue the honey. Not only for the reasons the manuevers in seduction she is attempting I suppose. But also for 2 other reasons. I'm the kind of person that can be happy on my own 1. & 2 other options! Day 4 then this morning. I was in 2 minds about sending a text, as I'm attracted to the lady, however its for me personally I see my next trip to the Ukraine improving on every front. From living to women, friends & contacts. & I am looking more for pleasures of the flesh now than building serious relationship material. However on that being said almost every woman I have met here I have established a reasonable to good relation. Working girl, players, straight girls, virgins, soon to be married women! Another story here. Anyway let me just finish this topic. So I was in 2 minds to sms. But I did this moring, I get instant reply. Like I mean instant! Followed up by a second. So we'll see what we see then.To be continued I suppose.Okay I'm out of Kiev now for a while. Fook! . So 2nd to last night in Kiev I get a call from the lady. She asks me to come out I say no I'm tired I'm going to bed, I've had a few glasses of wine. Its game over tonight. The young escort in my bedroom was getting dressed at this moment ready to leave. We hangup, I say good night to my guest. I'm naked & in bed just about to fall asleep. Next thing lady calls me up again. I'm on bench I have no money (long story short. Communication) can you come to me I am alone she repeats. Well it happens she was not alone her girlfriends were close by. 3 of them! One gets passed the phone to speak to me who speaks good english. This girl says come don't worry their are no boys here. No friends here, come don't worry no boys here. I said I'm not worried. She kept on a little about no boys being their & don't worry. I told her again I'm not worried & I'm not coming out! This chick goes I know you not worried, I go I'm not worried. She says I know in a tone of voice. So lets get to another point of talk. Lady will come to you in taxi, you pay taxi & taxi takes lady home. What I say? I'm in bed naked, it's 2am I was just about to sleep, you her friends. Want to ship her to me so I can pay the taxi, so lady can taxi home? I got to get dressed, wait on the street for a taxi, do you think I'm stupid? You pay for the taxi & lady can pay you back in a couple of days how ridiculous. (& considering 3 of them. Maybe 2) Then the line comes up I've heard this line before in Kiev. & in Thailand a few times. "It's nothing for you." Give me back to the princess, so the phone gets passed back. I talk a little we hangup. I'm in bed for 10 minutes then think! £$? $£! Okay dam it! I recall her no answer, then I call a second time 5 minutes later. She answers I say to her are you okay? Are you okay? No she is sitting outside. She says do you want me to come to you, to stay with you. I'm like. If you like. She starts laughing on the phone. Okay fuck this I'm coming! Where are you? Sms me the address. Bang! I get the address sms. Get dressed fully kitted ready to catch a first class Kiev taxi to the point of address. Boom! I'm on the street, a taxi pulls up. Ring ring, ring ring. Just before I get into the taxi I get a call. Princess says to me look "name," I sorry don't come. It's all okay now. Don't come, I okay now. O my god! Are you sure you are alright I'm right next to the taxi I'm literally 2 minutes away probably. I can meet you! I'm ready. No no it is okay please don't come. I could hear she was in a bar or club at thius point (it's called music). So after 2 minutes on the phone she was very certain. Back to bed I go. Slightly annoyed. She said we'll speak tomorrow. I did not call. Lady has my Skype so we will see if she gets setup in the next few days & is in touch.

Mystery77
05-18-11, 20:15
Title. Private Princess

Bimbo Boy
05-18-11, 22:39
. That said, I totally disagree with your other statement. It is grotesque to state that fucking freebies and fucking pros is the same. It simply isn't. But to each its own, as you correctly indicated.

151251Hello, Prosal! .

Guys, you should know that feebies can be trained. All my freebies perform DFK, anal, deep throat and black kiss like professionals. And unlike professionals, no rubber is allowed! And training them is a great part of the fun!

Regards.

Haint69
05-18-11, 23:28
Does anyone know the current cost for a International passport is for a citizen of the Ukraine? How long does it usually take? Thanks for the help.

Global Surfer
05-19-11, 01:08
Since there seems to be more activity here, I am going to repost this here in hopes of getting a reply.

I am a black man from the US who wants to meet a girl from close to Odessa I have been communicating with for a while. Plus I want to get some hot escort action! I feel like I could get an honest opinion here about what my experience might be like. Can anyone give me any insight? I mean no disrespect to anyone, there is just not a lot out there about this subject. I think Ukraine is no more dangerous than most European countries. Problem is very few can speak English and we cannot even read Russian. It is true that there is racism and also a few scams but if you follow a few commons sense rules, you are pretty safe.

City centre are pretty much safe. Don't venture out in suburbs. Do not visit your friend at her place. Invite her at some bar, café or your place. Just follow common sense.

FamaIt
05-19-11, 02:30
I have been to the Lybid and to the Rus (many times). No problem but you will have to bribe the security, although they might leave you alone during the day. Dnipro and President must be girl-friendly as well, since they both have their own strip-club.

If you really want a hotel where you won't have to bribe anyone, you can try the Dniprovskiy Hotel, Moorage 4, Naberezhno-Kreschatinskaya. 10A. It's super cheap, and the staff might scowl you a bit. But at least they won't make you pay.This is form your post a long time back. Of the Rus and Lybid, which one would you recommend. I have checked the reviews of all 4 you had mentioned and those two looked better than Dnipro and President. The rates per night were also pretty decent. $80 / night (assuming hotels. Com website starts working again). Which one wold you recommend in that price range.

As for the apartments which were also mentioned, which are good girl friendly ones close to strip clubs etc.

Also, is it easy to get Vit V from pharmacies in Ukraine?

Stevie69
05-19-11, 10:33
Preamble: I have been to Kiev and Ukraine many times. It is one of my "vacation" spots.

Yes, there seems to be a keen interest on Rio. Maybe there indeed ought to be a new section on Kiev strip bars. Nevertheless, in Kiev there are other strip bars and many other options beside strip bars. In my experiecne, strip bars are vastly overpriced, entrace, drinks and girls. I do not knwo why people are promulgatind the idea of going to strip bars, paying cover, pricey drinks and 200 to 400 USD for services that can be had for a fraction of that cost.

IN mamba, top modesls, some other bars, and out on the street you can easily find perfectly sweet, unabashedly sexy, and incredibly firm 18-22 year-old students who will often be happy with 50 to 60 USD. Maybe they are not smart enough to know that people pay far more, or they do not consider themselves real professionals. Sometimes they are open to spending the night, sometimes for no extra charge (nice central apartment in a fresh bed or back home, they probably think). Anyway, somethign to consider.

Someone mentioned that River Palace was open again, Any confirmation? Thanks.

Insomniaque
05-19-11, 11:06
I totally disagree with your other statement. It is grotesque to state that fucking freebies and fucking pros is the same. It simply isn't. But to each its own, as you correctly indicated.Er, where did I say such a thing?

Insomniaque
05-19-11, 11:16
Such a long time invested for one girl without meet her it is really a pityGiven the photo I fully understand Haint69. Had I such wonders in sight, I guess I could be fucking patient =)

Haint69, my main concern if I were you would not be racism (not that big of an issue) but a possible scam. You say you have many pics of her, but have you ever seen her "live"? I mean on webcam, for instance? Pics don't really prove anything. And those tits look a bit too good to be true. Warning, warning!

Insomniaque
05-19-11, 11:22
This is form your post a long time back. Of the Rus and Lybid, which one would you recommend. I have checked the reviews of all 4 you had mentioned and those two looked better than Dnipro and President. The rates per night were also pretty decent. $80 / night (assuming hotels. Com website starts working again). Which one wold you recommend in that price range.

As for the apartments which were also mentioned, which are good girl friendly ones close to strip clubs etc.

Also, is it easy to get Vit V from pharmacies in Ukraine? I prefer the Rus over the Lybid. Better location, and the staff at the Lybid was very rude when I stayed there.

I suppose Vit V is Viagra? You can get it in any apteka. Just ask for "viagra" and the girl (have you noticed, it's always girls in aptekas, some of which are very fuckable, for that matter) should understand. Otherwise the Russian name is "Potentsiale" IIRC.

Prosal
05-19-11, 11:24
Er, where did I say such a thing?Well, my bad, re-reading your post I realise that I interpreted it wrongly (the "how awesome sex with a stripper can be " part. Sorry for the sanguine remark.

Insomniaque
05-19-11, 11:24
Guys, you should know that feebies can be trained. All my freebies perform DFK, anal, deep throat and black kiss like professionals.Just for my reference, what is a "black kiss"? Never seen the term before.

Bas1971
05-19-11, 13:40
Does anyone know the current cost for a International passport is for a citizen of the Ukraine? How long does it usually take? Thanks for the help.Different cost. 1200 Hrn (150 USD) for 3 days. 800 Hrn (100 USD).10 days. 300 Hrn (40 USD).30 days

Haint69
05-19-11, 16:02
Given the photo I fully understand Haint69. Had I such wonders in sight, I guess I could be fucking patient =)

Haint69, my main concern if I were you would not be racism (not that big of an issue) but a possible scam. You say you have many pics of her, but have you ever seen her "live"? I mean on webcam, for instance? Pics don't really prove anything. And those tits look a bit too good to be true. Warning, warning! Yes, we use Skype quite often, and we talk on the phone on a regular basis. I met her on a marriage site about a year and half ago. Then about Jan-Feb, we started using Sykpe everyday and we started really talking about meeting. It looks like I convinced her to come the Dominican with me, but I would still really like to come to Ukraine and try my luck with the ladies there. I have met a few that I would like to meet, but they cannot travel. (kid, job.) Here's another girl form Nikoleav that met me in Dominican.

Timmy011
05-19-11, 18:05
Does anyone know the current cost for a International passport is for a citizen of the Ukraine? How long does it usually take? Thanks for the help.One of my girls from mamba send me this, so it is not 100% confirmed.)

If you want to receive it for 30 working days. 1000 grn, for 10 working days. 1800 grn, for 3 working days 2500 grn.

Somebody knows where can Ukr. Citizen get 30 days visa for Thai? (they can go without visa but for 15 days max)

I think that there is no Thai Embassy in Kiev.

Bimbo Boy
05-20-11, 00:22
Just for my reference, what is a "black kiss"? Never seen the term before.It's when the girl kisses and licks your asshole. I am just amazed at the high percentage of perfectly respectable girls and women that accept to do that.

FamaIt
05-20-11, 03:04
Hey guys,

Ok so I have booked Hotel Rus for my trip. The prices had gone up at $125 / night from last weeks $80. Aw well. Would post a FR of my trip when done.

In the meantime, if anyone has any suggestion for another hotel which is cheap then let me know.

Thanks so much for your help!

LilJoey
05-20-11, 05:01
i do not knwo why people are promulgatind the idea of going to strip bars, paying cover, pricey drinks and 200 to 400 usd for services that can be had for a fraction of that cost.

in mamba, top modesls, some other bars, and out on the street you can easily find perfectly sweet, unabashedly sexy, and incredibly firm 18-22 year-old students who will often be happy with 50 to 60 usd. dear stevie,

are you realluy perplexed by those going to strip clubs to shag supermodels? do you really claim the same "services" can be had for $60?

what is the difference between a horse and a mercedes? they can both provide services of transporting you from point a to point b?

answer: the mercedes can transport you with greater style and speed, than the horse.

what is the difference between a $60 average-looking mamba girl, and a $200-$400 strip club supermodel 9 or 10? they both provide the same services of having sex with you?

answer: most men derive a greater pleasure from fucking a supermodel, than sex with an average girl. and, in addition, the strip club option is far more efficient and speedy, because the girls are collected there waiting for you to choose among them.

this is in stark contrast to the situation with mamba and top-modals girls, where most telephone numbers don't answer, then most of those that do answer speak only russian and hang up on you, then those that speak english send you a girl, but she is ugly, and then you go through the bullshit of having one ugly girl after another show up at your door, and if you persist in this lunacy, you might get lucky and a decent enough average looking girl shows up, and because you are so frustrated and so horny, you are thankful and take her, and finally you had sex-but with an average girl. and then you ask yourself.is this why i travelled thousands of miles to kiev, ukraine? to fuck an average looking girl after hours and days of bullshit phone calls to fake agencies?

believe me i wanted to find the top-modals and mamba. ru solution, because i liked the prices possible of 800 uah ($100) or 600 uah ($75) the most usual prices quoted on top-modals and mamba, and i have no interest in wasting money. but i tried these websites and saw all the bullshit, and the very average returns, so i decided not to waste the time of my visit to kiev on that any further, but rather to seek a quicker solution.

guys like me are coming to visit kiev for a short visit, sometimes only 2. 3 nights. our objective is to shag the supermodel gorgeous 9 or 10's that kiev is famous for, not average looking girls, and not to merely have sex. sex we can get back at home. so time is a factor. and we do not have time to waste on bullshit options like mamba and top-modals except during the daytime when the options are more limited than at night.

whereas trying to find girls in the street may sometimes be successful and a fun pursuit, it also has the potential to waste a lot of time and come up with nothing.

so essentially, the two options of choice are to go where the working girls are located, and choose a girl. these two locations are strip clubs and certain night clubs.

based on prior reports by theknight on this thread, most of the strip clubs have prices for take out that is $400 and the girls don't look so hot. only rio had a $300 take out option, so it was the best priced strip club for take out. when i saw the good looks of the girls that danced at rio, which had some average looking girls, but also a good number of incredible 9's and 10's, i was sold on the idea. i looked at the pricing this way. the $300 was for 3 hours so the rate was really $100 / hr, which is the same hourly rate that the girls on top-modals and mamba were mostly asking. the catch was that at rio you were required to take 3 hours minimum for $300, there was no 2 or 1 hour option. but i like to take a long time, and for me personally, three hours was just about right, and $300 for 3 hours with a supermodel was good value, and believe me i got my moeny's worth during those three hours. lol.

however, i should make clear. i think the nightclub scene is also a great way to see and meet the type of awesome looking beauties i'm interested in. so i do not advocate going to rio strip club more than going to other night clubs at all. they are equally good options.

again, the decision for me to focus on rio over spending my few evenings in town going out clubbing, was a factor of time and efficiency in getting a hot girl into my bed each night, as well as pricing. i had been a devotee of the river palace nightclub during its existence, and would have continued with that type of venue had i not found out how quickly i could find an awesome date at rio strip club, which was what i needed to do, not to waste a night of my short visit and go to sleep hungry, so to speak. but the pricing at the nightclubs is also comparable to strip club pricing. the prettiest girls at the hottest clubs like d'lux asking more money, of course. but if the hottest ones were asking $400 at d'lux, or even $300, well for how long a period of time was that, i asked myself? if it was for 1 hour, or even if those prices were for two hours, then obviously i was better off at the rio strip club which had better prices than that.

however, the fact that it has been reported on this thread recently that one could get girls from a nightclub for $200 for 1 hour, meant there was a cheaper alternative to the strip club, because i could have sex for 1 hour for $200, which is $100 less than the $300 bill. so the total bill was less, even though the value per hour was better at the strip club prices. it's a judgment call for each guy. does he prefer 1 hour for $200, or 3 hours for $300? i guess it depends if you are one of the guys who can savor and enjoy the experience of sexual acts of various types spread over the 3 hours, or you are a bottom line guy who fucks for 5 or 10 minutes and then you're done. obviously, if you're all finished quickly or even within 40 minutes or so, then the 1 hour session is fine, and it's cheaper too. so it's a personal call for each guy.

we don't need a separate section for strip club action in kiev. it is not that developed yet. based on theknights reports, only rio strip club has low enough prices coupled with good enough looking girls to make it fun and worthwhile for guys who have short visits to kiev. i haven't personally checked out the other strip clubs. the other strip club that currently is operating, that is a sister club of rio and has the same prices and girls rotate to dance there from rio, is called paradise, but it's very far out from downtown area. the third club was also a sister club of rio called mandarin which had been located on the river and was also closed like the river palace. the managers at rio keep saying mandarin will re-open soon. in addition to a strip show, mandarin had a burlesque show complete with singers and dancers which was very nice entertainment, and a restaurant. the girls there were hot and i had take out from there which was just as it is now in rio. i also can't wait for it to reopen.

what we do need on this thread, guys, is more detailed reporting by those of you staying in town longer and have what to say on the action in all the nightclubs, what the girls look like, what the asking prices are, what the negotiations are like, how low can the prices be negotiated, for how long a period of time the girls will go for, and many other more erotic details. perhaps the reason reporting on the strip clubs seems to stick out to some of you now, is because those who went, including myself, reported in detail. whereas those who went to nightclubs or managed to pick up freebies, failed to report in detail, creating an imbalance in the topics reported.

so for those who are not going to strip clubs and are instead getting their girls as freebies, or in the nightclubs, i suggest taking the time to write about your methods, where you chose to try to pick up girls, why that location, what did you say, what was the conversation, how did you succeed to get the girls to your bed, and then the juicy details. do you think the rest of us don't want to hear your tales? of course we do, because it can open our eyes to opportunities when we come to visit that we might have overlooked, or thought we couldn't do or achieve.

with the greatest of respect for the claimed ability to shag a supermodel for $60.

lj

TheKnight
05-20-11, 09:41
Yet another trip to Kyiv, and this time more information to impart.

In answer to those questioning why Rio is "club du jour" it is simple: They have very good line-up. Staff are pleasant. Option is simple, guaranteed you can leave with a girl, and price is competitive.

To break it down, the only places I have been where girls are as pretty or better are the Rhino clubs out here. But 2 nights ago there were 45 girls working in Rio and 10 working in the Rhino club inside Arena complex, I think it's "Star Rhino" but I forget the branch names. Also, takeout is not an option in any Rhino club.

Girls in Solid Gold used to be very good when it opened, but went downhill rapidly. Also At Solid Gold and other strip bars like Millennium and Premier Palace Cabaret, fucking is an option, but more costly, around $400 for 3 hours, and they are very very strict about girl returning to the club to sign-out unlike Rio. At Rio girl can choose if she only dances, or if she leaves it will be with client she quite likes. So you generally get good attitude. Imagine taking girl from Millennium or somewhere else where they don; t have option to say no. Maybe you are her 3rd guy of the night, or 5th in two days, maybe she has a bad day at home. You won't get GFE time then.

Mamba, top models are cheaper, yes. But again they are probably seeing many guys a night, probably a high % treat them very badly, so you have the risk of selecting a jaded, men-hater. There is little incentive for them, if you report bad service to the agency, the phone will be put down on you! However if you report bad service to Rio management they will definitely take action. Either talk to girl, sack her, or let her continue but advise regulars not to go with her!

Sure freebies are great, and I am lucky enough to get quite a few stunning girls for free, which is the reason I use P4P less frequently than before. But freebies take so much time to cultivate. Although I love to challenge and pursuit, and it's a great ego boost meeting beautiful women who are genuinely very keen on you, and the thrill when you finally nail the model type girl is up there with the orgasm itself.)

But then when you capture the freebie, she will often have a hold on you. It's simply not possible to tell her, not tonight love, I am taking a couple of girls from Mamba! And Kyiv is relatively small city, and I take risks with my two GFs but try to make sure one is always not in places where the other and her friends may be. But of course there is always a chance that one of the dancers will know one of my GFs, and that game will be up.

One final thing about Rio, the staff. I can inform you all Pasha and Dima, my two favourite managers are still there, and reports of their demise have been greatly exaggerated!

TheKnight
05-20-11, 09:53
I was wandering through Mariinskiy park with my friend, and I noticed disco-club which I had forgotten about. Before I think it was called "Tsar", but now it's "Stolitsa". Meaning capital city. So it's another potential to chase freebies from that is very central. Mariinskiy is the park at the end of Kreschatyk, with the Dynamo football stadium at the bottom. Club is IN the park itself, so if you drink a lot watch out for the tricky steps down the hill in the dark. Hence the line of taxis! I did not go inside, so cannot comment on the talent inside, but some nice chicks passed by during our walk, although I also have to report it seemed to me many more men than women seemed to be entering.

So personally I probably won't be going here anytime soon, unless one of my freebies wants to go.

The other strip bar someone referred to was probably Marilyn, but this has been closed a while and not reopened AFAIK.

River Palace is not open, will not reopen as far as I know. I hear rumours here that a new club with different name and same principles will open somewhere on land, not on water, but nothing definite yet. And it will be difficult, any new club cannot possibly advertise as a *****house or p4p meeting place, and RP built its reputation over more than a decade I was aware of.

Rio's sister bar Paradise remains open, but I forget where. Dima told me definitely same girls have to work at both clubs. They rotate them. But their restaurant / strip bar Mandarin has still not reopened, and no definite date for it, so looks like not anytime in next few weeks.

Rio itself did not rotate the girls inside its club the other night, so all those who worked on the ground floor stayed only there: Dima said yes, sometimes they do this now. Maybe it is to increase tips to the staff, to allow access to the other floors? So I had to move around for full selection, but boys were already in possession of my Hryvnyas.

Eros74
05-20-11, 10:07
I do not think girls from Rio are Mercedes and mamba-night clubs girls are just horses, it is more likely Audi and Volkswagen, with Rio girls be Audi and as everyone knows they share the totally same engines.

And there are some Opel and Ford in Rio too.

I saw the mamba girl my friend got yesterday afternoon, she can work in Rio with no problem if just she would and when Rio girls go away in normal clothes, well once they are no more naked, they look quite "normal" stuff at least in Kiev.

Rio is the cheapest strip club in Kiev? Yes.

Price per hour of Rio girls is 100usd, so a good price? Yes, BUT. For many mongers it is best 300usd and to have 3 different girls in 3 days for 3 hours each than 300usd for one girl for 3 hours, even because if you are a bit unlucky and you take an ice queen from Rio you will surely regret. Taking for same price 3 girls, you have 300% higher chance to have GFE than taking just one girl.

Even more many mamba girl are not 100usd per hour but a bit less.

BUT even more and more, it is wrong to compare just the price per hour, in Rio you have

+ 100 grivna for entrance.

+ 100, at least, to tip manager.

+ drinks, even if you just drink coca cola all night and I am sure you do not.

+ 200 grivnas, at least for private dance with the girl you plan to take home, maybe more than one private dance.

So where at first view the price per hour of Rio seems reasonable, you have all the extra I wrote here that makes the price per hour of Rio girls much higher than mamba and girl from night clubs.

Having said that, it is surely much easier for a non speaking Russian monger to go to Rio, much faster than to be patient and to start to call mamba girls, unless you do not take as part of fun to call mamba girls or to search girls in night clubs.

Surely for a monger stay in Kiev 2-3days, Rio it worth it, but for one week probably not.

Let's also say that probably Rio girls have to show up almost every day to Rio and that mamba girls give you easily their phone number and they are easy to date on evening and to negotiate an all night, especially if you are able to build chemistry, if they know, you can bullshit them, you are here for business, looking for lover and you have no problem to become a sponsor.

It also depends who you are, if you are in good shape, young, you know you have the chance to become "friend" with mamba girls, most of them are students or semi-pro, if you are for example 60 yo, not good looking, better you go directly to Rio.

When I was at home reading reports of Rio I thought it is much better than it is, I do not say it is bad, but please do not end to think Kiev is just Rio and I am not so sure you can have GFE with Rio girls just cause you pay them 300 USD for 3 hours and no GFE with mamba girls cause you pay them 100 USD 1 hour. Pay mamba girl 300 USD for 3 hours and I bet she can give you even better GFE.

And if you are unlucky and you get a shark, cold ice queen from Rio, it costs you a lot, if one from mamba it cost you just like as 2 dinners in good restaurant and no matters how good you are in choosing GFE girl, sooner or later everybody choose the not-right girl.

Just my opinion, but I am pretty sure I am not much wrong....

TheKnight
05-20-11, 10:43
Apologies for repeating quite a bit of what LJ said in his previous explanation re Rio, I did not refresh page when logging back in, but anyway it enhances the knowledge, and I very much agree with LJ about the difficulty and lottery of ordering a girl off internet in this country, even if you speak Russian.

Girl I took from Rio this week is posted in photo gallery. $300 she stayed just over 3 hours I think, but after 3rd orgasm I was falling asleep, and welcomed her departure. She was definitely not the best looking. What would you say (personally I score her a 7. 5) but I arrived late after cultivating a freebie, many girls were already with clients, and after interviewing about 6 girls, my favourite was only a dancer, which Dima later confirmed, and this girl had great attitude and connection. Yes, she was very good in bed, BBBJ, GFE. She looked like she expected to get dressed after our second session, but I eased her g-string back off after she came out of shower, and no objection, and pop no. 3 happened.

Buddha Bar girls are nowhere near standard of any strip club. IMHO not near standard of previous RP average. Some are same girls, but now 2 years older. And they start at $400 asking price, with good negotiation I got girl down to $250 for "2 to 3 hours" which means they want to leave after 2 hours, and IMO she was probably only a 7, and she was best of the 7 or 8 working girls I saw. Maybe some other had already been and gone. But like RP the BB girls now want to score twice a night, so they are now conditioned to one or 2 hours visits, which is not good for punters. Be strong in your negotiations, state your requirements, time needed etc. She will have heard it all before, don't waste your time and money.

In D*Luxe great girls, but prices quoted to me $500, €400, and with 2 hotties I got no further than $300, and for 1-2 hours this time. Another was willing for all night for $500, but considering it was already 0200 I guess she would try to leave at 0600, or demand sleep at 0400 or 0500.

RHINO strip bars.

One other thing I was delighted to see in Star Rhino (150 entry IIRC) girls have to go fully nude. It was my first visit to this place, thank goodness they have Rhino in centre now! Most shy girls only took off G-string right at the end and pussy viewing was almost impossible. But then I tipped 50UAH to a dancer who got nude early and suddenly most girls got to know this and also got naked earlier and open leg shots sometimes too!

My other advice and info here:

1) Bring lost of 50 UAH notes with you as they like to only give 100UAH in change, and anything less than 50UAH as a tip will aggravate girls.

2) Sit side on, or even behind the stage, as you will get better view than straight on where some girls will still only get nude at the end, and also "hide" behind the pole. At the end of their dance they have to walk back down catwalk. You will see what I mean where you're inside.

3) Takeout not possible. However I did talk one girl into meeting me next evening, but we could not exchange phone numbers as girls are closely watched, and stupidly I did not do my usual of writing down my phone number in advance on small piece of paper which is easily and discreetly handed to a girl in a club. So next evening, I was with freebie and it was impossible to meet the stripper. I do not know whether she would have shown up, it's probably about 33% chance I would guess. Also, we did not fix a price, but I did say I would pay for her, and she seemed happy, but we'll never know. Until one of you tries the same modus operandi!

4) Private dances. Last for 2 songs, cost=200UAH. You have two choices. You can touch almost everywhere, depends on girl, some allow gentle pussy, some do not. Or your other option is get your cock out and wank while they strip. Tissues provided in every private booth!

Share the knowledge everyone!

Mystery77
05-20-11, 14:00
Jesus Christ! I'm not a professional Kiev player like some of the long term residents or frequent fly guys I've met in Kiev. Though $500 here $400 there. What the hell really! A good friend now I'm meeting in the future Kiev. Laughed at a hottie in Bhudda Bar when she quoted $100 per hour. Seriously do a little more leg work. Build a little jealousy even between girls to reduce prices. Just talk a little with a fellow company of girls. Let the others see this, laugh. Fake the fu*king laugh. Communicate politely with the girls smile, no no no come on lets be fair smile, you know my friends over there, I'm not a first time tourist, I've been around. Plus I thought we could also be friends.

I was around Kiev for 2 months, with my knowledge of many different fronts, bars / clubs, Room service, Freebies, When I come back its no longer as a novice, I'm now a self proclaimed ametuer. $500, come on. Hire a girl for the night / day, go clubbing & get help her to set you up with freebies, & sleep with her as well. Use a little strategy, or of course if your time is limited then "Just Do It." My post here is in part to help save you fellas a little cash. As Kiev can rock your wallets from time to time. If one would just spend $500, You deserve to have a little more than a suck & f*ck.

Eros74
05-20-11, 14:14
Buddha Bar.

I like the place for a drink, cocktail are between 60 and 100 grivnas, free entrance from Sunday till Thursday, no idea how much on Friday and Saturday.

All the hookers stay on the bar, I saw about 8-12 girls per night, never asked for a price, but couple of them are really nice.

Caribbean.

It seems like people come here just to dance, we had one drink and we immediately left. 60 grivnas entrance.

D'Lux.

200 grivnas entrance for men and 50 for girls.

3 floors, on top disco with nice music, the price worth just to see the dancers LOL.

Between the stairs and the dance floor is where hookers stay, we saw just 3 or 4 of them.

Interesting out of club in the street there were 2 girls that immediately looked to us, obviously pro, one of them really cute, we keep on walking but strange they could not afford 50 grivnas to go inside.

However so far I have the feeling the regular girls I saw in clubs has no interest to meet foreigners that they already know very well they are mongers, but I am sure 10 or 15 years ago here it was a pure heaven with no need to pay girls

Eros74
05-20-11, 14:22
Jesus Christ! I'm not a professional Kiev player like some of the long term residents or frequent fly guys I've met in Kiev. Though $500 here $400 there. What the hell really! A good friend now I'm meeting in the future Kiev. Laughed at a hottie in Bhudda Bar when she quoted $100 per hour. Seriously do a little more leg work. Build a little jealousy even between girls to reduce prices. Just talk a little with a fellow company of girls. Let the others see this, laugh. Fake the fu*king laugh. Communicate politely with the girls smile, no no no come on lets be fair smile, you know my friends over there, I'm not a first time tourist, I've been around. Plus I thought we could also be friends....Totally true Mystery, no way to pay too much so easily or no matter if ukraine will get the same financial crisi as belarus, but sooner we will end to pay outrageous price for girls.

And what I really really am afraid is that next year you have, and in poland, UEFA euro 2012, so there will be tons of football fans coming here just for football but that will take girls without negotiating, they will be shocked for the beauty of girls and if now there are many mongers coming to Kiev, after euro 2012 there will be even more and the girs will surely be even more spoiled than now.

Even men who do not know this forum or never thought to "holiday" to ukraine will be impressed looking to football matches and see ukranian girls on television, I am pretty sure the tourism to Kiev will increase in next years and price of girls too.

LilJoey
05-20-11, 17:14
I do not think girls from Rio are Mercedes and mamba-night clubs girls are just horses, it is more likely Audi and Volkswagen, with Rio girls be Audi and as everyone knows they share the totally same engines.

And there are some Opel and Ford in Rio too.

I saw the mamba girl my friend got yesterday afternoon, she can work in Rio with no problem if just she would and when Rio girls go away in normal clothes, well once they are no more naked, they look quite "normal" stuff at least in Kiev. No, my friend, you are not much wrong. I was very amused with your response and you made some very good points.

You are correct about the additional costs that occur when one visits Rio strip club which, to enlarge upon what you wrote, include a mandatory 100 UAH entry fee; and optional, but highly recommended 100 UAH tip to each manager who is assisting you (this can be more than one manager, so the 100 UAH for 1 manager is a minimum for when you stay in 1 spot at club and only 1 manager is involved with you, but if you ask to also be seated in another part of club after spending a while in one place, then you will encounter more managers) ; and optional but indispensable 200 UAH for each private dance, and you may need to do more than one private dance if you need to "interview" more than one girl, but it needs to be done in order to identify the girl with very good chemistry with you and high potential for GFE and to avoid the ice queen) ; and of course your drinks and drinks you may buy for girls who sit with you at your table for more than just a little while. I usually order just some hot green tea to help with digesting my dinner if I get to Rio early at 8 or 9pm, or a cappuccino or the like, and these items are not expensive (I think the tea was 40 UAH) , but the girls tend to order things like Baily's etc, so your bar tab can easily exceed 400 UAH ($50) , and for me has ranged between $50-$100 due to the drinks for multiple girls. Therefore, since the entry fee, a tip to 1 manager and only 1 private dance totals 400 UAH ($50) , and to this must be added the bar tab, plus additional private dances you may do, and sometimes additional managers' tips, it is not unlikely you may spend more than $100 on these "incidental" expenses, all apart from the girl fee of $300 for take out. Let's not forget to also add in the taxi cost to and from Rio as well. On the other hand, you will be paying for drinks for yourself and maybe some girls you speak to at nightclubs also, and as well may pay entrance fees at some nightclubs too. So I don't really focus on these "incidental" type costs when comparing strip club to nightclub girl costs. However, these costs do not occur when you invite a mamba girl directly to your apartment and don't serve her any drinks that you may have purchased and have in your apartment.

Also you are correct about the fact that there is less money at risk with a mamba girl who you got for $100 / hour or less, versus a Rio girl where $300 is at risk. If these girls turn out to give bad service and not GFE. However, the degree of risk is not equivalent, as I should point out that whereas you have little more than the odds of pure chance on your side with a mamba girl, with a Rio girl there is a recommended selection process (look, speak, private dance etc) specifically designed to weed out the ice queen and identify the really good girl with great vibes and chemistry (your dick should be fairly singing in your pants about this girl) and a very high GFE potential even before you issue an invitation to her to come home with you, which, of course minimizes the risk as to a Rio girl you have vetted in this manner.

Of the four Rio girls I have had in my bed, all four were GFE experiences, with the caveat that one of them would not do BJ uncovered, although the sex with her in all manner of positions was super, and the friendly warmth of the interrelationship was GF like. So if you remove from her GFE status for the lack of uncovered BJ, is a question to me. It didn't stop me from having this girl who has one of the prettiest faces I've seen and an awesome body at least four times to my apartment, alone and in a fantastic duo. The other 3 were straight GFE.

However, you lump together mamba girls with nightclub girls. These are not the same at all but rather two totally different experiences. Nightclub girls are far higher priced than mamba girls according to the reports on this thread from those who filed action reports of their visits to the nightclubs like TheKnight just recently and others previously.

I have written about my experience with mamba girls. I have also read Mystery77's reports about his experiences with mamba and other girls from internet. These reports speak for themselves and are not consistent with your glowing reports about the mamba girls you have seen who you feel could be Rio stripper quality. But perhaps you and your friends who got such good looking girls off of mamba were the lucky ones. So I do not disbelieve your findings, but I think they ate unusual compared to my own experiences with mamba and the experiences reported by others.

Lastly, what you wrote about the Audi and Volkswagon both having the same engine is a truism, in that every girl has a pussy. But clearly even you do not dispute that the packaging around that pussy makes a great deal of difference to the experience of the guy inserting his dick into it. It is more pleasure to have sex with a more beautiful girl than with a plain or average girl, all other factors such as warmth and friendliness being the same. And yes beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, so it could be that one man's Audi is another man's Ford. So I will not quibble with you when you say that some of the girls at Rio are not more good looking than the best looking girl that ever came off an ad on mamba. But I will dispute what you are saying as to the following:

In Rio strip club there are a good number of Mercedes and even a few Ferraris Maseratis and Lamborghinis, girls so good looking and sexy that any man's eyes will pop and his loins will squirm with yearning for, the 9's and 10's I have been writing about, that I have seen with my own eyes. Can such girls be gotten from the internet, mamba or otherwise? The internet pictures of such girls beckon and seduce one to believe in it.but in Kiev the internet pictures have been exposed as fraud time and again.

So for now, I will stick to what I have found to be a goldmine of GFE hotties in Rio strip club, which I don't regard as risking my $300, since I am relying on my own skills at interviewing the girls and sensing their GFE potential long before they get to my apartment. And I will pursue the nightclub options to see if I can find equivalently high level beauties (9's and 10's only) that have comparatively reasonable prices.

And I may dabble during the daytime with top-modals, or mamba or apartment girls to see what I can come up with, since always there is a chance. I already have two girls from the last two years on top-modals who are my backup daytime GFE sex partners. Both of the good bodies and nice faces (about 7 or 8's) and good sex with GFE. But these nice girls are not what I'm after when I'm hunting the big game, the supermodel 9's and 10's in the evenings, either in the strip club or the nightclub.

But thank you for a lively debate.

For all those reading this thread to try to get a handle on how to approach mongering in Kiev best, I suggest reading the posts within the last few months by myself, Tango9001, Insomniaque and TheKnight, as well as Lukasek and Stevie69 and Mystery77 (apologies if I've left out writers who also gave good info relative to the issues) and you will get a good summary of what seems to me to be the two main different perspectives on the best mongering approach to take to get the most out of your money spent on mongering in Kiev.

Please post more reporting on the nightclub scene and the freebie scene that has details as to methods and prices that can help others go where you have gone.

LJ

Lappgubbe
05-20-11, 18:14
Hi guys.

I have read a lot here but never written. I have not much to say to all you pro-mongers out there. But I'the like to cher my latest visit to Kiev.

Flew in this Monday for a three day vacation of unlimited sex.

I got my apartment, as many times before, from ALSErent www.alserent.kiev.ua

I have not seen them mentioned very often in this forum, but I think they are great! Lower prices than most others, nice and clean apartments. Recomended.

But this time they fucked up a little. Arriving at 19:00, to my surprise the passportcontrol only took 10 minutes of my life. This also surprised my driver who arrived about one hour after my landing. No big deal, and I got about 100 apologies, both from the driver and the managers.

The apartment was nice and very central, just by independence square. There were some plumbing issuses in my original apartment, so they uppgreaded me to a very nive 2 bedroom apartment, still at the same cost as the original. 75 bucks / day. Bargain!

I had a very good plan for all my stay. Monday- quick shower, money exchange and then visit RIO for the first time in my life, but I have read som much about here.

Fuckup? Well of course. Spent almost 2 hrs looking for an open exchange office. Finally found one in the supermarket downstairs in the Mandarin building. Got there at 21:58 and they were closing at 22. Praise!

But by the time I was home agaion I realized its rather late to get to RIO. From what I read here its better to arrive early. Good point, by the way.

So I got on the phone and called Gia agency. They have never let me down before, so I played it safe. Some of the girls have dissappointed me, but some have been very good.

In that short notice they had only one girl avaliable, Miranda. She could arrive at midnight. Ok, so I waited.

She arrived, and its no question its the girl in the pictures. Short, cute, long brown hair. But the pictures dosent show the perfect shape of here butt. Oh, my god what a butt! Spent a good deal of the evening kissing and licking that butt! .

She stayed three hours for 300 bucks, really friendly girl, really GFE. She gave me a really good start of my stay.

Lappgubbe
05-20-11, 19:04
Tuesday I am waking up happy.

Its time for the main event in my stay. At Lavaplace, a actually serious dating site I have found at not serious contact. I started a conversation with a married woman, and her husband have connections with semi-pro girls. Students making some extra income, you know the drill.

Me and Andrew, thats his name, had a mailconversation during a month, he sent pictures of 7 girls. 4 of them were really nice. I chose a nice brunette for Tuesday. 280 bucks 24 hrs, and at wedensday it will be a switch, a stunning blonde. 300 buck for 24 hrs. He sent additional pictures of these girls, no nude pictures, just ordinary vacation shots. Sho my meeting with the brunette, Nastya was sceduled at lunctime, confirmed a few days before by mail. So I send him an sms to verify I am ready for her.

Fuckup? Well of course.

"Sorry but girls busy"

WTF? I had a reservation!

"Yes, but you not make prepaymen"

Of course I had not made a prepayment, because he never asked for one. And if he had asked I would have turned to someone else. So now started my sms-afternoon. I sent to two of the girls I have got numbers via mamba, and also some girls at Top-models. No reply. Also I send about 10 sms to Andrew to at least give me the stunning blond tomorrow. After a while I get the impression that I am sending sms after sms to one of the rip off agencys thats everywhere in this city. So I fanally till Andrew, of whoever I am talking to, to go fuck himself. And his mother. By now I am both pissed off and drunk (I need to sit in a cafe with a cold beer to write an sms, just have to.). Every sms has taken me closer to RIO, so I scout the place at daytime and decide to come back at night. But first I must walk off the alcohol.

Back at RIO by 8 pm. The manager surprises me with free entrance. Good start. And I must say to all you guys praising RIO, you are right! Good atmosphere, decent prices, many stunning girls.

One brunette caught my eye among the others. Hot in a laidback way, boobs pointing up, marvellous legs. I invite her to sit and she speks english well. When I asked her for a private, she first informs me that she only dances. No takeout. A bit dissappointed, but I must say I like her honsety. She made her poinyt before giving me the private. So I went whit her to get my private lapdance. Dammit what a show! By the time she was finished with me I was so horny I could fuck a dog! An ugly dog!

She asked if I wanted company by another girl, and I got the message strait. Along came Alisa. Blond, petite, not stunning but very beautiful. She offered me a takeout right away, and I of course acceptded. Managers were called in, everything was smoth and swift. She joined me in the taxi and home we went.

She was very, very passionate. We tried the kitchen, livingroom and of course the bedroom. I especially enjoyed when she was rubbing her wellshaped A-cup boobs in my face while she was giving me a ride in the livingroom sofa. Dammit, another good night!

I agreed to meet her again at RIO next day and wnt to bed smiling. Again.

Lappgubbe
05-20-11, 19:44
In wedensday morning I find I hav got an sms during the night.

One of the mamba semipro girls have answerded that she can meet me after 18:00 tonight. Its a rather average girl, with boring photos, so I am not very impressed. But she has answered, and as a gentleman I shall of course answer her. I offer 300 for a full night. She says ok, and we will meet at Shato at 19:00. I now have a dilemma. Nice GFE girl at RIO or unknown average girl for the night. I decide to go with the average, after all I am here to get variation in my life.

So, at Shato I am not at all ready for what is coming down on me. Yes, its the same girl at in the pictures, but still not. The pictures had as rather cute girl, but pale, gloomy and with a sad smile.

And here comes a tanned, darkblonde beauty with big blue eyes and a stunning smile! Her curly long hair reaches her butt, and the white summer skirt reviels a really nice butt. And as she opens her mouth I quickly learn she is both smart, charming and educated. And full of humour. In short, I am in love.

I take her to a restaurant for a nice dinner full of flirting and laughs. And to Buddha bar before its time to go home. During all this time she never asked about money, or ordering expensive stuff. She is just charming!

And back at the apartment the magic is happening. Long wet foreplay, lots of kissing. Followed by a passioned uncovered 69. When I finally penetrate her I realize she has the tightest pussy I ever had the pleasure of visiting. Nedless to say, I came like a vulcano. And I was totally satisfied. We spent the rest of the night talking and cuddeling. She slept in my arms. And in the morning when she asked if I wanted another go at the gates of heaven, I turned it down. Still satisfied after the explosion yesterday. Dammit! My little cowboy let me down!

I will not let go of her mambaprofile or telephone number. This is my angel, and you pro-mongers would fuck her black and blue. I can just tell you she is out there, and you may try to find her. She is worth it!

/LG

Lappgubbe
05-20-11, 20:11
The girl from Gia was Milana.

http://www.gia-escort.com/girl/milana

Just a few days ago, but my memory is failing.

Eros74
05-21-11, 00:39
At around 1:00AM we went to Shooters and I did not pass the face control for the first time in Kiev, so I was curious to see Avalon, there were too many men, but even more the crowd was. Very "wild", some drunk and not really cute girls.

Strange that for just 50 grivnas entrance less than at D'Lux you have totally different persons.

Maybe there were a couple of pros, but MILF type; couple of girls on dance floor that danced all the time.

We left to Arena trying to find Rhino, but we were not able to do it.

BTW avalon is 200 meters from Rio.

AColonizer
05-21-11, 16:09
Thanks to Mystery77 and Lilijoy.

I am worried to read last reports about Ukraine. Yes, Ukraine has changed from the Golden Age 1991. 2001. I am surprised old masters didn't bring home one or two piggish supermodels in the Golden Age: they would save millions of dollars and they would get much more fun. In fact, now, Ukrainian economical expectations are higher, regardless the world crisis (by the way, it will last for a lot of years ahead) , and quality of sex and GFE are lower: that is following the same trend happened in Western Europe.

The solution about cheat prices is always the same: DON'T PAY!

Some masters get free sex by local beauties or an overnight sex for 100$, and when I talk about sex, I mean the dirtiest things with a beauty (as I have already described in some reports).

I think an overnight sex for 300$ is a honest price. I have get an overnight sex for 300$ by a beauty (unfortunately, now she has ritired) in last March.

The pricing about sex market should be well known, otherwise DON'T PAY! As I have already described in some reports:

- prostitutes are paid on a time basis to do everything customers want: if they don't want to do everything, then they are cheating or they are not prostitutes (therefore DON'T PAY!) ;

- negotiations are about prices but not on services because prostitutes should be good at everything and customers have right to get a good service otherwise they have right to ask for a refund;

- pricing should be always in grivnas, sometimes in dollars but never in euros, otherwise prostitutes will start to ask 100 euros instead of 100 dollars (that is a big difference amount) ;

- one hour couldn't be more than 800 grivnas. At this price, add the cost of your flight and accommodation. It doesn't make sense to pay three times more than the usual price in our own country. And prostitutes don't pay taxes!

- if one hour is 800 grivnas, then two hours are 1200 grivnas, four hours are 1600 grivnas, an 8 or 10 hours overnight is 2500/3000 grivnas at maximum.

- there is no connections between beauty and price and service and price, everything depends on monger's ability (as I have already described in some reports) : a young man could pay 800 grivnas for a covered blowjob and pussy fucking with a beautiful prostitute, and three friends could pay the same price for a multiple pussy and anal fisting with the same beautiful prostitute.

Men will pay less when men don't accept to be treated as mincemeat by the "sweet, tender, poor" prostitutes!

Curious12
05-21-11, 20:08
And what I really really am afraid is that next year you have, and in poland, UEFA euro 2012, so there will be tons of football fans coming here just for football but that will take girls without negotiating, they will be shocked for the beauty of girls and if now there are many mongers coming to Kiev, after euro 2012 there will be even more and the girs will surely be even more spoiled than now.Good point. I'm also afraid of that. Euro 2012 will be like Eurovision 2005. After Eurovision Kiev was never the same. Prices went up, WG started asking for more money, became more spoiled etc.

TheKnight
05-22-11, 00:50
Jesus Christ! I'm not a professional Kiev player like some of the long term residents or frequent fly guys I've met in Kiev. Though $500 here $400 there. What the hell really!

I was around Kiev for 2 months, with my knowledge of many different fronts, bars / clubs, Room service, Freebies, When I come back its no longer as a novice, I'm now a self proclaimed ametuer. $500, come on. Hire a girl for the night / day, go clubbing & get help her to set you up with freebies, & sleep with her as well. Use a little strategy, or of course if your time is limited then "Just Do It." My post here is in part to help save you fellas a little cash. As Kiev can rock your wallets from time to time. If one would just spend $500, You deserve to have a little more than a suck & f*ck. Maybe I did not make it clear. I have only ever paid $300 for Rio girls (probably about 15 times over past 2 or 3 years). Occasionally I make it clear to girls I want them to stay up to 5 hours, we usually compromise on 4 hours which is what I wanted! And anyway sometimes I am tired and happy to release her after 3 hours.

I have never paid more than $300. Not at RP, Buddha Bar, D*Lux, anywhere! I was merely doing market research for all users of this forum. It was actually quite liberating, having a laissez faire attitude to the girls, and trying to knock them down as much as I could without ever intending to take any of the girls home.

In praise of value and Mamba, I can report having had a really good 3-some at 1200UAH for one hour (600 UAH each girl) , including BBBJ from both girls, in private apartment. It actually lasted way over 2 hours because we were all getting on so well. Acolonizer may choose to slaughter me, but I tipped 200UAH so total damage was 1400. And against all my beliefs and principles I tipped before the sex. I was delighted it was not agency, really made to feel welcome and special by the girls, and was positive it would be a good session. Thankfully so it proved.

And today, shortly before a meeting with Lukasek and his buddy (whom I am not sure wants to be named) , I had a Mamba girl come over for one hour for 500UAH. Acolonizer would approve here no doubt because she was dirty, and Dr. Skank would no doubt be reading and cheering too when I describe her as 'skanky'. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that description, it is a look some of us are partial to. Having had my anus licked out in an incredible way, and noticing the one hour was now actually almost 2 hours I was happy to tip her 100UAH and make it up to 600UAH.

Then a former Rio girl, now a (almost) freebie to round off an amazing couple of days.

I do agree with Lukasek though that Euro2012 could really hammer the market. Eurovision was a turning point for the country, let's hope Euro2012 is not remembered by the punters for the same reasons.

Zebulon1
05-22-11, 13:43
Maybe I did not make it clear. I have only ever paid $300 for Rio girls (probably about 15 times over past 2 or 3 years). Occasionally I make it clear to girls I want them to stay up to 5 hours, we usually compromise on 4 hours which is what I wanted! And anyway sometimes I am tired and happy to release her after 3 hours.

I have never paid more than $300. Not at RP, Buddha Bar, D*Lux, anywhere! I was merely doing market research for all users of this forum. It was actually quite liberating, having a laissez faire attitude to the girls, and trying to knock them down as much as I could without ever intending to take any of the girls home.

In praise of value and Mamba, I can report having had a really good 3-some at 1200UAH for one hour (600 UAH each girl) , including BBBJ from both girls, in private apartment. It actually lasted way over 2 hours because we were all getting on so well. Acolonizer may choose to slaughter me, but I tipped 200UAH so total damage was 1400. And against all my beliefs and principles I tipped before the sex. I was delighted it was not agency, really made to feel welcome and special by the girls, and was positive it would be a good session. Thankfully so it proved.

And today, shortly before a meeting with Lukasek and his buddy (whom I am not sure wants to be named) , I had a Mamba girl come over for one hour for 500UAH. Acolonizer would approve here no doubt because she was dirty, and Dr. Skank would no doubt be reading and cheering too when I describe her as 'skanky'. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that description, it is a look some of us are partial to. Having had my anus licked out in an incredible way, and noticing the one hour was now actually almost 2 hours I was happy to tip her 100UAH and make it up to 600UAH.

Then a former Rio girl, now a (almost) freebie to round off an amazing couple of days.

I do agree with Lukasek though that Euro2012 could really hammer the market. Eurovision was a turning point for the country, let's hope Euro2012 is not remembered by the punters for the same reasons. I want to thank you a lot for yesterday.

We spend a funny time to discuss with you. Lot of fun and very accurate informations about a lot of things.

It was really nice to open for us the room downstair in Rio.

After that we are like kings in Rio.

When we want to change and visit the other room, no problem, the pacha call and we have a very nice table.

Mystery77
05-24-11, 05:19
Thanks to Mystery77 and Lilijoy.

I am worried to read last reports about Ukraine. Yes, Ukraine has changed from the Golden Age 1991. 2001. I am surprised old masters didn't bring home one or two piggish supermodels in the Golden Age: they would save millions of dollars and they would get much more fun. In fact, now, Ukrainian economical expectations are higher, regardless the world crisis (by the way, it will last for a lot of years ahead) , and quality of sex and GFE are lower: that is following the same trend happened in Western Europe.

The solution about cheat prices is always the same: DON'T PAY!

Some masters get free sex by local beauties or an overnight sex for 100$, and when I talk about sex, I mean the dirtiest things with a beauty (as I have already described in some reports).

I think an overnight sex for 300$ is a honest price. I have get an overnight sex for 300$ by a beauty (unfortunately, now she has ritired) in last March.

The pricing about sex market should be well known, otherwise DON'T PAY! As I have already described in some reports:

- prostitutes are paid on a time basis to do everything customers want: if they don't want to do everything, then they are cheating or they are not prostitutes (therefore DON'T PAY!) ;

- negotiations are about prices but not on services because prostitutes should be good at everything and customers have right to get a good service otherwise they have right to ask for a refund;

- pricing should be always in grivnas, sometimes in dollars but never in euros, otherwise prostitutes will start to ask 100 euros instead of 100 dollars (that is a big difference amount) ;

- one hour couldn't be more than 800 grivnas. At this price, add the cost of your flight and accommodation. It doesn't make sense to pay three times more than the usual price in our own country. And prostitutes don't pay taxes!

- if one hour is 800 grivnas, then two hours are 1200 grivnas, four hours are 1600 grivnas, an 8 or 10 hours overnight is 2500/3000 grivnas at maximum.

- there is no connections between beauty and price and service and price, everything depends on monger's ability (as I have already described in some reports) : a young man could pay 800 grivnas for a covered blowjob and pussy fucking with a beautiful prostitute, and three friends could pay the same price for a multiple pussy and anal fisting with the same beautiful prostitute.

Men will pay less when men don't accept to be treated as mincemeat by the "sweet, tender, poor" prostitutes! The sweet tender poor prostitutes. I remember this woman who resembled a Mc Donald meal. Yes she was big!

It was not the women in the picture thats for sure. I make her a coffee, we talk nicely while she waits for the taxi. I speak with the "agent" over the phone who is demanding taxi money. I say its not going to happen.

10 minutes later after feeling slightly sorry for the girl who is drinking my coffee. As I felt she felt it was due to her bones packed with meat & gravy. Meaning I did not want her because she was over weight. & she mentioned she would have to front the taxi fee now because thats how it is. I did not believe this.

However out of the goodness of my heart I offer to pay the ride back. Lets call it 50grn, next thing I'm getting told. 50 here 50 back! Thats how it is. Considering up till 5 minutes before I was understood by the agent & lady that I was paying nothing! Absolutely nothing for this injustice of a bait & switch.

Passed the 50grn over non the less due to the above mentioned. Next time visiting imposters can dream about a hand out.

Wrong girl big time!. Hanging out in my apartment, here's a coffee, lets talk while you wait for your ride, oh I feel you. Here's a little $. Now please, please! Try & hustle me for my good deed. No really I want you to hustle me.

Thats why I gave the biggest girl in Kiev a tip. So you could for some reason think you could actually f*ck me without your pussy. Not that, thats going to happen darling.

Mystery77
05-24-11, 05:32
The return to Kiev will be glorious! I'm looking forwards to meeting some naughty girls. Maybe even dating one girl. Hmm we will see! I just want to make this clear. The Guiness here is absolutely fantastic! In United Kingdom. A real pint of Guiness my first in 2 months. I could drown in that stuff right now. A taste of heaven so good.

Any good pubs clubs. Guiness estblishments in Kiev. Not watered down or the likes.

Eros74
05-24-11, 06:18
I want to thank you a lot for yesterday.

We spend a funny time to discuss with you. Lot of fun and very accurate informations about a lot of things.

It was really nice to open for us the room downstair in Rio.

After that we are like kings in Rio.

When we want to change and visit the other room, no problem, the pacha call and we have a very nice table. The same!

Even 2 days ago with Zebulon1 we arrived and went immediately downstairs to Pasha who got istantly a table for us.

P. S. Even if, the girl, the only one I took from Rio, was sent out of my flat not later than half hour after we went into. Not sure if I will report this, but really Rio has "strange" girls. At least the one I choose.

Stevie69
05-24-11, 09:20
I fully agree! $500 is a LOT of money in Ukraine. For that much, you might as well stay home, wherever that is, and save yourself the travel and accomodation costs. The beuty about Kiev is that a model type babe CAN be had for $100 or less. About the Knight's assertion that RIO women are supermodels and other babes are not, I respectufully disagree. Kiev is FULL of shockingly beutiful women! The difference is that int he strip bar they are naked, with platform shoes and the light is really bad. In reality, they are no more beautiful that the hundreds of babes littering the streets day and night.

The part about them being "supermodels" is true int he sense that they are profesionals and have figured out how to make the most money in their line of work, something they young students on Mamba have yet to figure out. What would you prefer, having Gisele, Marisa, Alessandra, Heidi, and Kate now, when they are "supermodels" at the top of their games and all nearly, or over. 30 years old? Or you would prefer them when they were 18-20 years old, and just starting in the business? Are they more beautiful now? Unlikely! It is just better that they have marketting now.


Jesus Christ! I'm not a professional Kiev player like some of the long term residents or frequent fly guys I've met in Kiev. Though $500 here $400 there. What the hell really! A good friend now I'm meeting in the future Kiev. Laughed at a hottie in Bhudda Bar when she quoted $100 per hour. Seriously do a little more leg work. Build a little jealousy even between girls to reduce prices. Just talk a little with a fellow company of girls. Let the others see this, laugh. Fake the fu*king laugh. Communicate politely with the girls smile, no no no come on lets be fair smile, you know my friends over there, I'm not a first time tourist, I've been around. Plus I thought we could also be friends.

I was around Kiev for 2 months, with my knowledge of many different fronts, bars / clubs, Room service, Freebies, When I come back its no longer as a novice, I'm now a self proclaimed ametuer. $500, come on. Hire a girl for the night / day, go clubbing & get help her to set you up with freebies, & sleep with her as well. Use a little strategy, or of course if your time is limited then "Just Do It." My post here is in part to help save you fellas a little cash. As Kiev can rock your wallets from time to time. If one would just spend $500, You deserve to have a little more than a suck & f*ck.

Bootie26
05-24-11, 21:38
Hi all,

Anyone got pictures and can pm me numbers as well for good GFE girls?

I'm a newbie both to Kiev and these forums, any help would be greatly appreciated.

Zinda
05-26-11, 03:25
Planning a trip to Kiev. Would any one have following info.

1. Is there any park / s in the city? Any suggestions for rental apartment in a nice central area near night life (disco, casino etc) near health club / gym and park (for jogging ).

2. Would like to take Russian language classes. Any info about Russian language schools?

Thanks

LilJoey
05-26-11, 07:18
About the Knight's assertion that RIO women are supermodels and other babes are not, I respectufully disagree. Kiev is FULL of shockingly beutiful women! The difference is that int he strip bar they are naked, with platform shoes and the light is really bad. In reality, they are no more beautiful that the hundreds of babes littering the streets day and night.Exaggeration does little to INFORM. No one including TheKnight ever claimed that ALL the Rio girls are supermodels and that other girls are not. That is just as untrue in fact as the following statement claiming there are hundreds of beautiful "babes littering the streets day and night."

The objectively reported facts are that in Rio there are a fair number of eye-popping beauties with incredibly hot bodies. These hotties are not just being reported as 10's because of the "naked" effect on the reporting mongers' hormone-intoxicated brains, and really they were only average girls who were just naked. That's not the case. Rest assured that there are some very beautiful women there who would be regarded as "hot" in their clothing also, although the sheer sexiness of their finely shaped bodies being revealed and visible definitely adds to the impact.

By the same token, while it is true there are certainly many beautiful women to be met in Kiev locations such as nightclubs, a venue where lots of hot sexily dressed up young women are usually to be found, as in any city, or in locations like shopping malls where lots of young girls like to browse and shop, nevertheless, with regard to the "streets". Even streets like the main drag of Kreshatik. It will not seem to any objective visitor to Kiev that "the streets" are teeming with literally hundreds of hotties in the same kind of density of hotties that one could see congregated in a strip club like Rio or a nightclub like D'lux. That's the objective reality. It's just in the nature of a street to be different than specialized locations like a nightclub or a strip club, when it comes to how many really hot women one will find standing around within a given area of square meters. But of course even on a street it does happen occasionally that one sees or meets attractive women. It's happened to all of us. But let's not exaggerate it in the manner of the proverbial claim that the streets are paved with gold.

For example, On May 1, the day of national holiday in Kiev I stood in Maidan area with my camera, with the intention of documenting by photoghraphs for my buddies that were stupid enough not to come with me on my trip to Kiev, all the beautiful hot Kiev girls walking on Kreshatik all the time, as is the myth. After a half hour of waiting and searching for suitably "hot" female candidates to photograph I had to abandon the idea. It was just not happening. I too had always had the impression of there being lots of hot Ukrainian girls all around. But I guess the hotties I had seen once in a while, from time to time, had created an exaggerated impression in my mind. Because when I focussed on it to photograph the phenomenon, it wasn't there!

So let's be measured and careful in our reporting to better inform other readers who have not yet visited Kiev and are depending on the accuracy of our reporting.

LJ

Insomniaque
05-26-11, 08:32
When I say it is urgent it means that I am in Kiev until tomorrow so tonight will be my last night (already!) and I need to know by then.

So, I was in Rio yesterday. Came across "Agatha" in the VIP room. Wow. I am sure those of you who know her will see exactly what I mean.

Very good-eye contact, winks, devastating smile. Outstanding private dance. And then: "Sorry, I only dance."

WTF?

I am missing a part here. Has anyone of you fellows managed to take this one out? Is it worth persisting?

Carsten Bangk
05-26-11, 10:54
Hi there

Anybody has made experience with http://www.lux-models.com?

They are offering services in Ukraine but also in Dubai. I wonder about the risk of making partial advance payment for having one of there girls sent to Dubai for the requested date.

Anybody used their services before?

Thanks,

Carsten

Drgn
05-26-11, 17:56
When I say it is urgent it means that I am in Kiev until tomorrow so tonight will be my last night (already!) and I need to know by then.

So, I was in Rio yesterday. Came across "Agatha" in the VIP room. Wow. I am sure those of you who know her will see exactly what I mean.

Very good-eye contact, winks, devastating smile. Outstanding private dance. And then: "Sorry, I only dance."

WTF?

I am missing a part here. Has anyone of you fellows managed to take this one out? Is it worth persisting? Do you really need help with this? You are only in town for one more night and you're debating whether or not to spend your time chasing after someone who only dances (in a venue full of other available women)? Really? Really?

P.S. Whenever a guy says he has a "problem" with a specific woman, it usually means he isn't meeting (meating?) enough women. Abundance tends to "sort out" most difficulties...

Global Surfer
05-27-11, 00:18
Hi there

Anybody has made experience with.

http://www.lux-models.com

?

They are offering services in Ukraine but also in Dubai. I wonder about the risk of making partial advance payment for having one of there girls sent to Dubai for the requested date.

Anybody used their services before?

Thanks,

CarstenYou can find Ukrainians, Russians and from other FSU contires in Dubai for nearly the same rate or cheaper. You can go to the bar and choose the one you like ranging from USD 70 for short time to USD 300 for full night

Guntherus
05-27-11, 00:53
.... I wonder about the risk of making partial advance payment for having one of there girls sent to Dubai for the requested date.Never NEVER send advance payment to an escort or agency. It is a scam. Real agencies do not ask for a down payment. Just a friendly advice.

Mystery77
05-27-11, 01:11
We are now linked on Skype. Yeha.) But now I'm waiting for a Cam.

We have spoken for a time typing day here there. But not that much for the few days.

& if you don't know whats going on with this post. Don't ask. Its for a few interested parties & myself.

Mystery77
05-27-11, 01:13
Never NEVER send advance payment to an escort or agency. It is a scam. Real agencies do not ask for a down payment. Just a friendly advice.I'm about to send an advance payment in the next few days to an escort. We will see if I get the burn.

So anyway. I dis-agree! Its not never never send an advance payment. Its more than likely / or / almost never send an advance payment to.

=)

DoctorOral
05-27-11, 09:19
Why, why, why no massage salon offering blowjobs?

Perozok
05-27-11, 10:09
Just got in last night. Will be out mongering tonight.

I speak fluent Russian, anyone is welcome to join.

[Email address deleted by Admin]

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Sponsor74
05-27-11, 20:19
Preamble: I have been to Kiev and Ukraine many times. It is one of my "vacation" spots.

Yes, there seems to be a keen interest on Rio. Maybe there indeed ought to be a new section on Kiev strip bars. Nevertheless, in Kiev there are other strip bars and many other options beside strip bars. In my experiecne, strip bars are vastly overpriced, entrace, drinks and girls. I do not knwo why people are promulgatind the idea of going to strip bars, paying cover, pricey drinks and 200 to 400 USD for services that can be had for a fraction of that cost.

IN mamba, top modesls, some other bars, and out on the street you can easily find perfectly sweet, unabashedly sexy, and incredibly firm 18-22 year-old students who will often be happy with 50 to 60 USD. Maybe they are not smart enough to know that people pay far more, or they do not consider themselves real professionals. Sometimes they are open to spending the night, sometimes for no extra charge (nice central apartment in a fresh bed or back home, they probably think). Anyway, somethign to consider.

Someone mentioned that River Palace was open again, Any confirmation? Thanks. Agree with you, I am not for these kind of clubs. However, I am not updated with the street scene there NOW. I was 1 year ago there and was the main street near to Mc Donals, is this now a good location? Or where do you recomend to find these students looking for some extra money? Now is vacation time in the schools or universities, where are these students during this time?

Guntherus
05-27-11, 22:39
I'm about to send an advance payment in the next few days to an escort. We will see if I get the burn.

=) I sure hope you will not be cheated upon, I know from experience how it works to send money in order to confirm booking, pay for travel or whatever. Since then my rule is turn away when individual escort or an agency ask for money in advance. There are plenty who will not, if you order e-ticket and confirm hotel which the girl can check with a phone call in advance.

I wonder if others in this forum know how to distinguise between scammers and solid offerings?

G

AColonizer
05-28-11, 13:50
Read some of my reports: prostitution carrier starts in massage salons (and strip bars too) , unfortunately we are foreigners and we are not the owners, therefore bosses don't want to have troubles with foreigners who say that to Western police when they come back home (and then international investigations, then Interpol disturbs Ukrainian police, then Ukrainian police have to catch prostitutes and their bosses).

Logics can explain everything, also your question (without my reply). It is logic: sex is a spontaneous continuation after a body massage: it doesn't make sense a handjob, indeed!

I personally saw deepthroat blowjobs and pussy fuckings both in massage salons and strip bars in 2008. I am sure it was the same before, I am sure it is the same now!


Why, why, why no massage salon offering blowjobs?

Ted Verrick
05-28-11, 17:40
Perozok,

I would like to get together. I have been here for three days and already have had 1 freebie (local Ukrainian girl, met off Mamba) , well if you count dinner then she cost me 25UAH. :P.

Also. 1 University student for 500UAH for the hour, complete and utter satisfaction. Everything was on the menu for that 20yr. Old. So far, I'm impressed by Kiev.

I'm staying at Independence square, the Kozatskiy Hotel. Tomorrow back to Kiev Apartment.

Very cool that they closed off the main Blvd, and the concert is going on. Local girls galore out here.

Seems the ones selling it aren't hanging out near the McDonalds in the square as I've read some saying to look out for. Scene change?

The working girl told me to check out Carribean Club, Deluxe Club, and Buddha Bar (spelling?)

Let me know if you're up for getting a drink.

Going to get some dinner now, be back on in a couple of hours.


Just got in last night. Will be out mongering tonight.

I speak fluent Russian, anyone is welcome to join.

[Email address deleted by Admin]

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LilJoey
05-29-11, 06:03
...Kiev is FULL of shockingly beutiful women! The difference is that int he strip bar they are naked, with platform shoes and the light is really bad. In reality, they are no more beautiful that the hundreds of babes littering the streets day and night.
out on the street you can easily find perfectly sweet, unabashedly sexy, and incredibly firm 18-22 year-old students who will often be happy with 50 to 60 USD.
Agree with you, I am not for these kind of clubs. However, I am not updated with the street scene there NOW. I was 1 year ago there and was the main street near to Mc Donals, is this now a good location? Or where do you recomend to find these students looking for some extra money? Now is vacation time in the schools or universities, where are these students during this time?Dear Sponsor74.

If you are looking for all the beautiful gorgeous young supermodel students who want to have sex with you for $60, I suggest you go directly to the location on the streets which you read about in the postings by Stevie69 where you will no doubt find the "hundreds of babes littering the streets day and night" who are "easily found, perfectly sweet, unabashedly sexy, and incredibly firm 18-22 year-old students who will often be happy with 50 to 60 USD", and who look just as good as the 9's and 10's supermodels available in Rio strip club for "a fraction of the cost."

You should not go to Rio strip club and pay $300 for a 9 or 10 supermodel, because (1) you do not need to have a 9 or 10 supermodel, as you are perfectly happy traveling to Kiev and scoring with nice average looking young slim studentkas as can be met on the streets, if they can be had for a low price of $60, because the low price is part of the pleasure for you, and (2) I have come to understand that there are some men who look at beauty and sex pleasure differently than me. To them there is very little difference in terms of the pleasure they get from sex with a supermodel 10 type versus the sexual pleasure they get from an above average good looking young girl, because the physical feelings and resulting ejaculation is in the end the same. The visual excitement of sex with a supermodel which so increases the pleasure for me, does not do the same for these men, So for such men there is little benefit in running after the supermodel types, especially when they are so much more expensive than the girls on the street. And it seems you may be one of these type men who truly don't see or more importantly, don't appreciate the difference enough to pay a significant price for it.

Factually there are not hundreds of supermodels waiting to have sex with you for $60 on any street in Kiev. But why should I ruin your fantasy. Go enjoy the street scene for what it is and I'm sure you will be happy with whichever studentka you end up with. She will not be a supermodel 10 type unless you are very lucky or very handsome or perhaps both, but it is little importance because she will be good looking enough to satisfy your desires and her price will be right for you.

We should each look for what gives us pleasure the most. There are other men, like me, to whom it does not bother to spend $300 for a supermodel 10 type of girl because they can afford it and they very much appreciate the difference in visual excitement and pleasure of sex with such a beautiful creature versus sex with an average good looking slim girl. For those with a similar view, I merely point out that the street with all the supermodel babes waiting to have sex for $60 is located in fantasy land. You can try your luck on the streets of Kiev, and you may get lucky, or may spend a lot of time with little result. If you have the time, then it is an amusing way to pass time. However, at the point in time where you realize that you cannot afford to waste more time because you need to insure that you will have some amazingly beautiful 10 in your bed for the night, you will need to proceed to either one of the nightclubs known for the presence of a lot of girls who will accept money for sex, like D'lux or Buddha Bar or others, or to a strip club like Rio. Those are the facts in the real world.

LJ

Mystery77
05-29-11, 19:02
Dear Sponsor74.

If you are looking for all the beautiful gorgeous young supermodel students who want to have sex with you for $60, I suggest you go directly to the location on the streets which you read about in the postings by Stevie69 where you will no doubt find the "hundreds of babes littering the streets day and night" who are "easily found, perfectly sweet, unabashedly sexy, and incredibly firm 18-22 year-old students who will often be happy with 50 to 60 USD", and who look just as good as the 9's and 10's supermodels available in Rio strip club for "a fraction of the cost."

You should not go to Rio strip club and pay $300 for a 9 or 10 supermodel, because (1) you do not need to have a 9 or 10 supermodel, as you are perfectly happy traveling to Kiev and scoring with nice average looking young slim studentkas as can be met on the streets, if they can be had for a low price of $60, because the low price is part of the pleasure for you, and (2) I have come to understand that there are some men who look at beauty and sex pleasure differently than me. To them there is very little difference in terms of the pleasure they get from sex with a supermodel 10 type versus the sexual pleasure they get from an above average good looking young girl, because the physical feelings and resulting ejaculation is in the end the same. The visual excitement of sex with a supermodel which so increases the pleasure for me, does not do the same for these men, So for such men there is little benefit in running after the supermodel types, especially when they are so much more expensive than the girls on the street. And it seems you may be one of these type men who truly don't see or more importantly, don't appreciate the difference enough to pay a significant price for it.

Factually there are not hundreds of supermodels waiting to have sex with you for $60 on any street in Kiev. But why should I ruin your fantasy. Go enjoy the street scene for what it is and I'm sure you will be happy with whichever studentka you end up with. She will not be a supermodel 10 type unless you are very lucky or very handsome or perhaps both, but it is little importance because she will be good looking enough to satisfy your desires and her price will be right for you.

We should each look for what gives us pleasure the most. There are other men, like me, to whom it does not bother to spend $300 for a supermodel 10 type of girl because they can afford it and they very much appreciate the difference in visual excitement and pleasure of sex with such a beautiful creature versus sex with an average good looking slim girl. For those with a similar view, I merely point out that the street with all the supermodel babes waiting to have sex for $60 is located in fantasy land. You can try your luck on the streets of Kiev, and you may get lucky, or may spend a lot of time with little result. If you have the time, then it is an amusing way to pass time. However, at the point in time where you realize that you cannot afford to waste more time because you need to insure that you will have some amazingly beautiful 10 in your bed for the night, you will need to proceed to either one of the nightclubs known for the presence of a lot of girls who will accept money for sex, like D'lux or Buddha Bar or others, or to a strip club like Rio. Those are the facts in the real world.

LJBeware of Gaius.

He'll pour a honeyed potion in your ear.

And you'll wake up one day and all you'll say is,"Republic, republic."

If you got the time & money. Enjoy the best of both worlds.

TheKnight
05-29-11, 19:55
When I say it is urgent it means that I am in Kiev until tomorrow so tonight will be my last night (already!) and I need to know by then.

So, I was in Rio yesterday. Came across "Agatha" in the VIP room. Wow. I am sure those of you who know her will see exactly what I mean.

Very good-eye contact, winks, devastating smile. Outstanding private dance. And then: "Sorry, I only dance."

WTF?

I am missing a part here. Has anyone of you fellows managed to take this one out? Is it worth persisting? Sorry Ibid not respond in time, but for the record I also tried and failed. She really is just a dancer. From my experience there ate far higher number of dancer-only girls in VIP. That's why last visit I had to move back out of VIP.

Oh, and not been logged in for a few days, so thanks to LJ for his truth about RIO and Kyiv. Indeed I never said only supermodels worked in Rio.

Roberto Cavalli
05-30-11, 00:23
Dear monger fellas,

I have been in Kiev 3 times within the previous 5 months and I would like to share my experiences with you, since this is my first report excuse me if I make some mistakes of any kind.

I have used know-how written here many times and I think now it is my turn to share my experiences. I am 29 year old (I look like 25) from Turkey with European look and dressing.

Almost all time I am on for freebies and if you are interested in money for service my story may not be interesting for you. But it is a great experience about mongering into Kiev.

ACT 1.

I was in Kiev on November for the first time for 8 nights. My phone was loaded with nearly 40 mamba contacts but I did not know how 35 of the look like &61514; . At first I was not selective and after seeing its very easy to get numbers from diyavushkas I started to be more selective, but I just saved names and numbers. Except 4-5 really klassna ladies I did not know which name-number double was looking like.

Day1 (Friday) :

We landed on borispol at 2 pm and the man with our names written on it was waiting for us. We got into the car and arrived to the apartment. I did not know any street name in Kiev but when I saw the decoration in the room I noticed that this was not the apartment we arranged for. After I noticed it the manager admitted this was another apartment but with same quality. We talked with my friend and decided we had no other choice. In fact for 70 USD a night with 2 bedrooms and one living room LCD tv and new furniture this was a good deal. (Lesse ukrainki 14).

After having some rest we got up and I sent sms to ladies with names between A-H. 4 Girls answered and I told them I am with a friend and finally I arranged to meet with a girl named alina and her friend at 9 pm. Near arena. Until that time we walked around kreshatik, and ate something.

We meet with the girls at 9. 30 pm, alina was a 6 and her friend was a 5. But they were warm and friendly. We first went to some small bar in front of Fridays. After that, since we was thinking that local places are better for hunting since we look for freebies, we wanted girls to direct us to some local not very klassna club. They told us it could be Saxon and we said 'davay, lets go'. She told me we can go with metro or taxi but metro will take longer. Later I respected her because of this question, they was not %100 rippers they just wanted to have fun. It was a nice club, there were a Kiss FM party, full of studenkas, but we was with this average girls and in fact there was many boys trying to talk with girls. And its really cheap, for example a long island is 50 grimnah. If you have a chance with more girls than boys in this club you can buy every girl a long island &61514; . I remember I was talking with my friend 'lets say this girls fuck off and find new chicks' and he was telling me, 'we have girls in our hands why to risk it? '.

After 2 hours I was at the room in our apartment with this girl Alina. She was really hot, good blowjob, various positions. We had a great sex of 30-40 minutes. Since the other girl and my friend was waiting for us in the living room I did not tried for a second shot. The other girl was in problematic kind and did not want sex. They called their taxi, we paid and they were gone. She told me 'call me if you want' before leaving. Oww baby there are so many Krassivaya Diyavushka in Kiev your beaty is not enough I am sorry bye bye.

Day2 (Saturday) :

We woke up near midday and walking at Lesse Ukrainki to downwards. My friend saw money around jelantine on the floor. It was a bundle mixed with dollars and euros. A guy with shitty clothing hit my friend with his shoulder and got the money on the floor at street. Shit, we was at the same scene with this money founding. I told my friend this can not be a coincidence, we should have go but I could not make him to listen to me. After 1 minute a guy with a suit came and told he lost money blab la bla. He wanted us to show our money to him. I said him fuck off but my friend was afraid he gave his money-deck to that man in suit for him to check for dollars he lost. (we had big decks since we just came to Kiev) He gave his deck back and after he asked mine. I said fuck off to him, I was not going to give my money to his hands, I showed my money from 2 meters and we said bye bye. When we finished and it was time to pay the bill, my friend noticed that he has lost 400 USD worth of grimnas. When that guy was looking for money, he has stolen some of my friend's money. It was terrible. So be careful of money on the floor.

After this fucking event, we hanged around Kreshatik until the evening. In the evening this time I sent the same SMS to the girls at range I-S. There were again many replies and I agreed on meeting a girl named Ira. I did not again know how she was looking like. I agreed to meet this girl at Meidan and she called me when we was eating sushi with my friend at vodka bar. I met her near meidan. She was a 7, brunette, perfect English. At first sight I did not like her and thought maybe my friend will like her. We went vodka bar together and finished our sushi. My friend said he can do with her and I said ok I will have the lottery for the friend. After 30 minutes her friend arrived. We met with her at kreshatik and went to some Italian restaurant together. She was was a blondie with blue eyes and perfect English. She was warm and talkative. Except not being a gorgeous lady she was just my type. (She was also a 7). After 2 bottles of wine and great conversation it was time to go a club. We first tried for Avalon but they did not let us in since everybody was dressed in a sports style (we had not have time to go home and change ). After failing in Avalon, they asked for the club card which I think never exists &61514; . We headed fersage another student club located between dorms of universities. It was a so so club with 2 floors. 1 st floor is are&be and the 2nd one is for electronic music. There are lots of freebies and for hunters it seemed to me like a heaven. And being an electronic music lover the 2nd floor was just my taste. With many girls looking into my eyes this place was my fucking habitat. If you wear stylish and be in positive mood you will shine like a sun in this club. Prices are nearly same with Saxon, cheap, some useless crowd and within many beautiful ladies. After some time we started making up with our girls, kiss, touch, but they were not coming home, no home, no home. So we had a taxi to home, we gave a final kiss and said goodbye. That night was a night of rest.

Day 3-4 (Sunday-Monday) :

Wake up time was again near midday. I received a message from Inna, one of my vkontakte girls living in poltova that she was on the way. I had told her I was arriving Kiev this day and she was on her way. Interesting I was not expecting she would came. After 1 hour we meet with her at Kreshatik. She also brought a small present. She had found me from vkontakte and we only talked a little. She even does not know elementary English. After having a breakfast we went home and my friend kept on hunting around kreshatik. The street was very lively since it was Sunday and it was very convenient for hunting blondinka diyavushkas.

There was no sex for me from Inna in morning and at night since she was a little shy and we have just met. At night we went to opera in Kiev with Julia who murat found from street and with Inna. It was a nice experience and great Opera in Kiev. I recommend for art lover mongerers &61514; .

In the Monday morning after my endless insistence finally Inna agreed on sex and we had some hot time, nearly one hour, with her. She was hot and she liked sex. I was happy. At night we went to some restaurant, My friend was with Ira and I was with Inna. Ira was almost having sex on the table but again refused to come home. Sex with Inna at night and morning was really nice, various positions, full of passion.

Day 5.

After a passionate morning sex with inna we walked together to Kreshatik with my friend and inna and I said 'dasvidenya' to inna. She was a doctor working for 200$ a month, she had to go work to Poltova. If she was beautiful enough for my remaning holiday, I would never think twice giving 500$ just as a gift.

We was with my friend again and found 2 students in front of mcdonalds. They told us they wanted to eat sushi. It was definite that they were not any kind of professionals and both of them were 8+, tall young and well-shaped. We tried to go to the sushi restaurant behind McDonalds but it was full. After we went to sushiya behind arena. They was very nice girls, they tried to order cheapest sushi from the menu, I told them its from us order something special. They did not listen to me, they ordered the sushi they can afford even it was from us. Really interesting for Ukrainian ladies, I thought at that time we must be together with girls like this. After eating we exchanged numbers and they went home. One of them insistively asked why we was in Kiev. I think they was thinking we was in Kiev for the sex we can not find anywhere else. So they did not answer our calls and sms's we sent. Both of them could be really nice darling, shit.

I received a sms from Nadya another mamba girl which I talked long time about Kazantip. She was a Kazantip girl who semi-owned a bar there. We met with her near meidan and went to Vodka Bar. It was around 5 pm. After a few drinks a friend of her came and we went to Patipa together with her friend and my friend.

Patipa seemed a nice club for me, upstairs there was VIP rooms and downstairs a dance floor and 2 bars. Prices was between arena and saxon-fersage. Many students and non-professional girls who want to enjoy the night. We drank some Long Islands and went home together. At home we drank some Bacardi-apple and in the bedroom I spent 3 hours inside of Nadya with all positions. She told me anal and oral sex was for her husband I said ok that is your choice. She was a Leo and was very hot. I spent her some money but I got more in return.

Day 6.

Afer waking up at mid-day I said I have some business meetings (!) to Nadya and she must go. She wanted coffee and after drinking her coffee she went without wanting money for taxi. She earned 20 points with this action &61514; .

We spent this day for some culture. Walking around city and we made reservation of a table at upstairs of Vodka bar. They told us it was R&B night. I was afraid there could be many boys but we made the reservation.

After drinking some tequila with cheese we went to Vodka bar at 22:30, semi-drunk. We ate some sushi and at the same time inspecting girls I saw it was a big challenge. The ratio was around 1, 5 boy to 1 girl so it was really difficult to have a girl. We worked hard until 4 a. M. But it was a failure, girls was not interested because of high demand. We both got some numbers but there was no future.

Day 7.

After many sms's and phone calls during my visit in Kiev I finally had arranged a meeting with Lena, the prettiest mother of Kiev who I met from Vkontantke (age 23, 8.5). She had a daughter and she left her to kindergarten for spending some hours with me. It was really difficult to meet, we finally could met in front of Porsche store inside Arena building. After drinking coffee at Leonardo, my favorite Italian restaurant in Kiev. (opposite to Ferrari store, very good English speaking staff and good food) I insisted on we had not very much time and we need to go home.

She had a new Toyota Camry and it was definite that she was not expecting anything else except a normal girlfriend wants from me. I did not want to waste time for a some wrong road-trip so we got a taxi to home and ripped of with 70 grimnas (a little cost for a passionate sex). At home we had nearly 1 hours of sex with everything except anal. She was very hot and very passionate. I can not forget she screams 'fuck me, fuck me'.

After saying goodbye to her with my friend we spent evening for some museums and culture. And at night we did not do anything. It was a day to rest.

Day 8.

It was our last day in Kiev. We did not do anything professional since this day and we was talking about having professional assistance.

Since we did not bring any computers because we did not know about the security we had to go to some internet café for internet access. At internet café I opened mamba and my friend said some of girls in my list 'oww who is that girl? '. I looked at my mobile and could not see her number. After looking at her messages I saw she had written her number 2 days before. I immediately recorded her number to my mobile.

We had around 5 numbers of escorts to our mobiles and called a taxi to internet café. After calling these numbers we noticed that if we tried for this it would be a %100 waste of our money and time. We was not used to this type of service and the numbers we called did not seem very reliable. Some was not talking English, some was talking Turkish, and some was English. In fact I did not enjoyed very much the escort told me speak Turkish. She understood my country from my accent. Shit.

So I called the girl I saved number from mamba that day and my friend called again the girl who he met from the street. We first went to some sushi restaurant across to Meidan. The mamba girl for me was a 7. 5, she was not a tall girl but everything else seemed fine. I told her we will go to Arena and after that we will go to home. She was a 20 years old brunette student and in fact she was not well dressed to go to arena. Even for guaranteed sex I did not feel I can spend my night with her at some nightclub. I wanted some model –style tall blonde girl to kiss rather than having sex with that girl. She told me we can go home the second night and I replied her I don't know when our second night would be.

After dinner and on the walk to Arena I told the girl again we will go to home after home, Yes or No? (Maybe she never went to arena before all her life). She told not at the first meeting. I told her, ok here is metro davay our first meeting is over. She was surprised a little and went to metro. I was like a bird. I was free again. All girls in Arena was waiting for me &61514; .

We went to Arena with my friend, and his girl. I immediately started approaching girls, I was semi-drunk and very motivated. After saying 'zdrastviti' to some girls, a perfect blondie arrived to bar. Her name was Julia, between 175-180 blonde with blue eyes and she seemed interested. Her clothing was not very fashionable but who cares, underneath her clothes there was everything I wanted. She was a law student and 20 years old. After buying her a tequila and a mojito and after some dancing we went to sushiya near to Arena. I insisted very much going home together but she rejected me. All I got was some hot kisses and her number. But I liked her very much, it was a crush. Maybe she could have been the reason for my next Kiev flight. I was very happy that I said the mamba girl goodbye. I prefer this girl to 10 average filthy mamba girls.

In the morning we prepared our luggage's and transferred to Borispol with our apartment company's service. In my mind was Julia and I was thinking Kiev was full of every kind of opportunity for people who want pretty girls. I was regretting time we wasted and I was smiling for every minute I spent with pretty diyavushkas.

I have been in Kiev 2 more times within 2 months and I will write them as ACTs 2 and 3.

In the second part of June I will come to Kiev again and for 1 week I will be alone. If there is someone planning to visit Kiev at second part of June, could contact me for hunting freebies together or drinking beer and sharing knowledge at shato. I believe there are still too many untouched beautiful girls in Kiev and want my share before it is too late &61514; .

Gergiev
05-30-11, 02:54
We woke up near midday and walking at Lesse Ukrainki to downwards. My friend saw money around jelantine on the floor. It was a bundle mixed with dollars and euros. A guy with shitty clothing hit my friend with his shoulder and got the money on the floor at street. Shit, we was at the same scene with this money founding. I told my friend this can not be a coincidence, we should have go but I could not make him to listen to me. After 1 minute a guy with a suit came and told he lost money blab la bla. He wanted us to show our money to him. I said him fuck off but my friend was afraid he gave his money-deck to that man in suit for him to check for dollars he lost. (we had big decks since we just came to Kiev) He gave his deck back and after he asked mine. I said fuck off to him, I was not going to give my money to his hands, I showed my money from 2 meters and we said bye bye. When we finished and it was time to pay the bill, my friend noticed that he has lost 400 USD worth of grimnas. When that guy was looking for money, he has stolen some of my friend's money. It was terrible. So be careful of money on the floor.

After this fucking event. Hi Roberto,

Many thanks for the enjoyable report.

More than a little surprised your friend got scammed like you described above.

This is the oldest scam in this part of the world and gets commented on very frequently.

And still people fall for this trick.

Amazing but true...

VG.

Muddy7
05-30-11, 05:57
This is happened to me my first trip to Kiev in 2004, on the same street, but I had read about it so I just kept walking when it happened and did not say a word to the 1st guy.

The thing is you don't want to look like and act a foreigner, not a bad idea to wear sun glasses if its sunny.


We woke up near midday and walking at Lesse Ukrainki to downwards. My friend saw money around jelantine on the floor. It was a bundle mixed with dollars and euros. A guy with shitty clothing hit my friend with his shoulder and got the money on the floor at street. Shit, we was at the same scene with this money founding. I told my friend this can not be a coincidence, we should have go but I could not make him to listen to me. After 1 minute a guy with a suit came and told he lost money blab la bla. He wanted us to show our money to him. I said him fuck off but my friend was afraid he gave his money-deck to that man in suit for him to check for dollars he lost. (we had big decks since we just came to Kiev) He gave his deck back and after he asked mine. I said fuck off to him, I was not going to give my money to his hands, I showed my money from 2 meters and we said bye bye. When we finished and it was time to pay the bill, my friend noticed that he has lost 400 USD worth of grimnas. When that guy was looking for money, he has stolen some of my friend's money. It was terrible. So be careful of money on the floor..

Insomniaque
05-30-11, 17:33
Apartment booked with Kievapts this time. There was some good and some bad. The good: Alex, the manager, is pretty efficient (clearly he works his ass off). The bad: landed at Borispol and no sign with my name on it (whereas I had been confirmed my transfer). I give them a call. Where's my driver, I ask. What's your name again, they ask in return. I see no reservation under that name, did you pay the deposit? Let me check and I call you back in 5 min. Yes, sure, please do check. And please do call me back. 10 min later: apologies, there has been a mistake somewhere, the driver will be there anytime soon. Thank God.

And then I am told there is a problem with the apartment I booked. Something broken, Alex explains, no hot water. But they have found me another place; or other places, that is, since there is nothing available at my dates (from beginning to end). So I will have to spend the first 2 nights in one place, and the 3rd night in another. But these are more expensive apartments than the one I booked and I won't pay the difference, so it is an upgrade, sort of. Fair enough. Do I really have a choice anyway, I am here for such a short time and my ex Rio GF is waiting for me, can I afford to waste any more time on apartment issues? No.

(Ironically, there was no hot water in the second apartment they put me in.)

Insomniaque
05-30-11, 17:36
So it was my ex Rio girlfriend again. I have become kind of addicted to this one. Intense looks and kisses like there is no tomorrow. And fucking stupid moments like when you are just happy to grab her tits and feel her warm body when you fall asleep. And some little extras, for instance the deep throat she will try spontaneously as simply she is willing to please, and so on. I gave away UAH2000 as previously, except this time it was for nearly 24h; actually, she would have been happy to stay with me another night, had I not had other plans. I was honestly surprised at how sad she looked when we wave hands and parted. I don't think she is in love, of course not, she knows men too damn well. But still.

Anyway. I think this little experiment is true to the concept of escorting as it's no mere P4P but a more "complex" deal, so to speak. As a matter of fact, we did not spend the 24h fucking, there were "only" four sex sessions; we talked a lot as well, tried out the jacuzzi, went to the restaurant, etc. So it's a different experience. I can't say I fully see where it leads. But what a hell of a service!

Insomniaque
05-30-11, 17:37
I left my GF and joined clients for dinner, and it was agreed to hit Rio. One of the fellows happened to be a local and a regular customer; he called Pasha (several times, by the way, he really had to persist) and eventually got us a table. And what a table. The one in the VIP area where the 2 chicks dance right in front of your nose! =) So it was my first night in the VIP room and obviously this is the place to be, it feels cosier and it goes faster (I mean the turn-over) , also the show behind the glass is really thrilling! As for the girls, well, as far as I am concerned they are not that much better-looking than the ones you can see in the other areas, nor are they always "reserved" for the VIP, I suppose, since I had already seen some of them. Susha, for instance, whom I had met last year, operating downstairs. That time I nearly took her out, by the way, but when I eventually asked her it was already late and although she was willing to go she warned me of the 5 a. M. Deadline where girls are expected to return to the club to check-out and get their cash. I have to say this policy pisses me off a lot. So I changed my mind and didn't take anybody and moved to Avalon instead with some of the fellowship.

But I will get to that later. Let's first review the chicks a little bit. The first one I spotted was Masha. Or it's rather her who spotted me, as she offered me a private dance no later had she started dancing in front of us. She had something and seemed to like me, and she was skilled undoubtedly, but we had just arrived and I wanted to see some more, thinking that I could still get back to her later. Did not quite had that opportunity as one of my buddies got hold of her. One less. I also noticed Mira, a tall blonde with a nice body, but the eye-contact wasn't that good so I didn't push. And of course Nikita aka "Impossible Mission", whom I had quite foolishly tried to take out last year so I was already in the know and had no false hopes. You can easily recognise her as she is tall, really beautiful, and proudly displays some well-earned bills pinned on her g-string. Clearly she makes good money with private dances and can afford not to fuck. And then there was Agatha. OMFG. By far the one that turned me on the most that night, smoking hot body, fucking fucking skilled and a look that stopped my heart for several minutes. I thought I was in heaven. Which turned out to be hell when she confessed, after an outstanding private dance, that sex was not on the menu.

So I asked for Irma, whom I spotted while Agatha was getting prepared for the private dance and whom I also quite liked. She had left in the meantime. I then asked for Ada. She was not working tonight. Hey, God, what have I done to you.

What else? Oh, Inna. A tall skinny blonde with a baby face. The most awful private dance ever. I nearly asked her to stop.

So it was a complete mess and I fucked off to Avalon. Deadly as usual, boring as usual. And guess whom I bumped into. The WG I had turned away several months ago as she would not lower her price enough (see my December report). Hello, honey, remember me? She remembers. So, are we going to find an agreement this time. USD300, she starts over. You know you should be a comic rather than a hooker. Again, she denies my offer (USD200 for 2 hours). No problem. And I join my buddies. After a while, where she is just waiting there hopelessly, she gets back and spits out that typical "Ok let's go now" that reminds me of the RP days. That a girl. Off we go, then. Unfortunately we won't make it to the exit. While walking down the stairs I notice she is sully so I ask what's wrong. Nothing, she replies. I insist gently."Ok, we don't go", she says impatiently. And she turns away and climbs the stairs back to the club. Now I am starting to really like you. But it does not end there. She came back again! So we eventually left together. I was tired anyway and could not stand the Avalon any longer so I was leaving, with or without her. But in the taxi, she was so fucking cold and bored that I suddenly decided not to be stupid, for once. When we arrived in front of my building, I gave money for the ride and told her she could drive to hell.

What a night.

Insomniaque
05-30-11, 17:38
Sent SMS and made phone calls for the traditional afternoon shag, until I was called back by a Mamba girl: pretty do-able, judging from the photos, although not really my type (initially I had called for her girlfriend whom I found much more attractive, but that one was currently abroad). Well, I thought, we shall see.

Of course, she was late, and of course, it was not the girl on the pictures. As I came down to meet her I first saw her back, as she had missed my entrance and kept walking in the street, so I ran after her, thinking, this is not the girl on the picture, clearly the body does not match, but this one seems smoking hot! Delicious tan (from some Moroccan blood, I would learn later) perfect waist to hip ratio (I mean PERFECT) , limber curves. Miam, miam! Let us just hope that the face will be nice as well! And then she turned, and the world just froze. I raised my eyebrows and stared at her stupidly. It was not a downgrade. It was not an upgrade. It was a miracle. Soft face, nice lips, perfect eyebrows, and most of all, the most beautiful, tenebrious dark eyes I have seen in Ukraine. So fucking dark, so fucking soft, like the endless sleep of death. Oh my god. My look then came down from her face to her breast, which I could easily admire in this outrageous dress of hers. I nearly choked. It was just too fucking good to be true! To complete the picture, I should also mention the fact she wears no make up. She doesn't need to. A pure natural beauty, and a girl you will necessarily wish to have in your bed. Unless you are gay. And even so.

As for the intercourse, well, it was a bit strange, due to the fact that I was mesmerised, so I would just forget what I was here for. =) Having said that, it was not the shag of the century, covered BJ, DATY strictly prohibited and hardly any FK at all; still it was a good shag, as she was involved and I could feel her vagina contracting, and it was rather passionate. Maybe she just don't like to be licked, after all. (My, is that conceivable.) I intend to see her again if I can, experience shows that repeated meetings will get you better service from one time to the next, provided there is a good connection in the first place. And I look forward to finding out how far I can go with that one, because she is just too damn beautiful!

Insomniaque
05-30-11, 17:40
Back to Rio as I wanted to make up for the previous night. I managed to arrive early and found myself in the club around 9:30. A manager offered me to sit at the bar, I said,"Oh, come on", handed a bill, he laughed and gave me a table in the big room upstairs. I did not dare ask for the VIP; anyway, I wanted to see some new girls so trying another room was my best bet.

So I ordered a drink and started reviewing the chicks; nothing spectacular until one comes on stage whom instantly turned me on. She was not quite my style (really skinny, I like them a little bit more voluptuous) but her face was very nice, plus she danced in a more technical (and horny) way than the others, and above all the very second she was there she started staring at me with a big smile, ignoring the other few customers. I had never had such a strong eye-contact before, and quite logically I told her to give me a private dance as soon as she would be finished.

There, I decided to try out Liljoey's approach, I. E. To "push" and see what's happening. So I started kissing and licking her tits and kissing her in the neck, and soon found myself masturbating her, first gently, and then more energically, and she responded to my efforts by moaning in such a way that I worried about my pants. Fuck me, what a sl*t!"What if I asked you to go out with me and come to my place", I asked."Maybe", she replied with a naughty smile,"are you a good boy?" I offered her a drink so that she could decide whether I was good or not. But the deal was already made, and I knew I was going to have a shag to remember.

So we returned to my table and started chit-chatting (good English, by the way, which is something I appreciate). Her alias was "Helen", she was Russian and had come to Kiev for I don't recall what reason; actually I was not really listening to what she had to say, I was just thinking, son, you have found her, the genuine Russian be*tch, a monger's dream, and I kept wetting my pants like a dirty dog in power gaming mode.

Helen suggested that we first hang out and have fun somewhere before going to my appartement. I quite liked the idea, as it was still early (maybe 10:30) and I like to spend time with the girls, since it can really increase their GFE potential at the end of the day. Only we first had to wait for a buddy who was on his way; he arrived around 11, had a quick drink, took out his girl (he already knew which one, he had fucked her the night before and was addicted) and we got out of the Rio together: Helen, Marina, my wingman and myself.

And then something strange happened. Helen's attitude changed dramatically. I mean dramatically from my perspective. I am quite sensitive to such things and although it might have gone unnoticed to many, I instictively switched to DEFCON 4; she was no longer winking or smiling but seemed instead rather impatient and a bit bored. At this point, had I been given the choice to fly back in time and take another girl out, I would have probably seized the occasion; but there was no way I could get my $300 back now, was there? And my buddy was willing to go anyway, and I could not let him down. So we asked the girls which place they had in mind. D'lux. Of course. One of the most expensive clubs in Kiev. DEFCON 3.

So we took a cab to the club, paid the entrance fee (UAH500, nice rip-off) and the deposit (a nasty trick) for a table. A waiter showed up, and we made it clear to the chicks that we were just here for a couple of drinks and dancing and that ordering the whole fucking menu was out of the question. The waiter came back with our drinks a few moments later and we started enjoying the show, so to speak: a tombola, and then some kind of fucking endless fashion show sponsored by a brand of ugly jeans wored by rather ugly models. Geez. Meanwhile Helen was cooler than ever, she was acting as if I did not exist and I really did not like the smell of it.

And then ANOTHER waiter came to our table with a meal. And then another meal. And then another."Have you girls ordered all this stuff?" Helen replied,"I haven't eaten today!" We retorted that it was not our concern, but it was too late: they had done it. They had ordered the whole fucking menu. In fucking D'lux. Against our will. DEFCON 1.

This is where I went apeshit and told my wingman "Who the fuck is going to pay for all this, not you, not me, those fucking be*tches played us a trick, let's get the fuck out of here and they will handle the bill, why not return to Rio and complain, this is fucking unacceptable!" But my buddy replied,"you know we will have to pay in the end, that's just the game, you make mistakes that you won't do again; you live and learn, that's the most we can make of the situation now." Still I was not at all prepared to pay an astronomical bill, this was just not going to happen and I could not afford it anyway. My pal took upon himself to pay most of it as he could afford it, so I was sort of relieved; but in the principle, I was pissed off, as we had got fucked like newbies.

Total damage for the night (which my wingman and I shared) : 100 bribe to Rio manager + 200 private dance + approx. 500 drinks in Rio + 500 entrance fee to D'lux + 2100 drinks and meals + 100 taxi + 4800 for the take-outs = UAH8300 = a thousand fucking dollars. Ouch.

Now, regarding my shag (as there eventually was one) , it is one of the most awful I had to date. Forget the GFE, naturally, and it was not even a proper shag as per "normal" standards. Not only Helen did not like to fuck with me, but she was not even capable of delivering properly a mere mechanical service. The most awful blowjob EVER. (The teeth, for fuck sake, the TEETH.) Almost made me regret to have a dick. I had to really concentrate to cross the finish line, closing my eyes and remembering some good old porn I knew by heart. Isn't that ironical, spending a fucking fortune for a girl in Kiev, just to end up thinking hard of the movies you have at home. But you live and learn. Live and learn.

I am still pondering over this experience, trying to figure out how all this could happen; how I, Insomniaque the First, a monger and a GFE expert (or so I thought) could be cheated to such an incredible extent. How I was so totally blind and failed to detect anything during the private dance, which is precisely what private dances are all about. I find that disturbing. That Helen is a really good actress, for sure. But still. I SHOULD have seen it coming.

Eros74
05-30-11, 21:14
i read almost only great reports about rio and i was very curious to check it.

let's say i start to go to such places since 1998 in czech republic, so i am not a beginner and usally i am able to choose a real gfe.

the club is nice but i did not like the fact you have to tip manager to get a table that otherwise stay empty all the night even if it has a sign of reserve, however once you understand how to do it, it is totally easy: every manager has one part of the club, just give him 100 grivnas-9 euro and that's all, he put away the fake sign "reserve" and you can sit down.

i went there with my buddy and for the first 3 times we went away without girls. it means a lot so far as all the times we had enough cash to take girl home all night.

why no girl in 3 times?

cause we were no horny? oh defintely not!

the girls are nice, but nothing to write home about, as one, i forgot who, very wisely said, the bad light, the high heel and the fact they are almost naked make them look like million times much better than how they really are!

period!

during the 3rd time there we saw many girls go away in normal clothes and me and my buddy smiled, cause once without high heel and with normal clothes many of them look really average in kiev!

i got a privat dance with the girl that according to me and my friend was the most friendly one and guess what, all the time during private dance she was looking in the mirror, check the way she dances and check her hair!

with such girl to just think to have a bit of gfe is just be totally crazy!

our 4th time there i did the biggest mistake an experienced monger can do, decide in advance i would take a girl home!

downstairs, in the part manage from pasha, i had a privat dance with a cute blond with a great smile, but once inside the cabine, she turn to be a cold fish, she just danced and tried to fake a totally cold smile, danced very mechanical and for just one single song!

when i went back to the table my buddy looked to me with. why you are already here? did you went out early?

no just one song, god knows why.

later i invited to my table a brunette with good smile too, sorry i forgot her name, but she looks like a girl from georgia or armenia, great body, but not the typical ukranian look.

my buddy asked me, do you take her?

the problem was it started to be already late. 4th time in rio, so even if my instinct told me, she was probably waste of money, i was too weak and i wanted to test a rio girl even if. normally i never took her, why?

in such places as strip bar, at least in all the ones i was in all over the world, usally it is the girl that try to convince you to be taken home, she try to speak, to be curious about you, she fakes interests, she touch you, she try to be nice and sweet and friendly. not in rio!

it is funny cause for all the time she looked to the way other girls were dancing, about herself she just said, she was sing since she was 5 yo, she is studying lawyer and really the feeling was of her as cold fish but i did not want to go away from rio again without girl or to change floor and maybr to find nothing.

let's to say that during my 3rd time at rio i went away with no girl and i was so horny i started to call mamba at 2:00am having girl to my apartment around 4:00am and went to sleep close to 6:00am. the second day i was fucking tired, so during my 4th time i did not want to end the night in the same way.

the problem is that even if a girl in strip club is nice, she can change totally once in apartment, but a girl cold in strip club very seldom turn to be a good one in bed.

so to make long short, she stayed in shower about 40 minutes, she drink and smoke for other 20 minutes and in bed she was a total disaster, almost no dfk and only covered bj but in so bad and lazy way that she was almost asking to be kicked off from apartment. when i asked her if all is ok, she just said, i am tired and tomorrow morning i have to go to school. wtf?

mine 300 usd were not fake and not tired at all!

i decided in 1 second to kick her off and to go immediately to pc to find mamba girl, funny as she wanted to take another shower just to be in bed maybe 6 minutes, i told her, go away asap or i take taxi and i go back to rio to report to pasha how "good" you are, in a while she got dressed and was out of flat at speed light.

at least mamba girl was not bad for. just 900 grivnas all included.

but back to rio, i am pretty sure most of girls there are not worth to be taken at all!

i am pretty sure most of report about gfe of rio girls or they are fake or they are reports written from people that probably spend 30 years of life with fat ugly wife so even a table with a shape of average girl can be called gfe, that's my opinion and i am pretty sure about what i write!

yes maybe some reports are real and some, very few, girls there are ok, but most of rio girls think of themselfs as the best girls in the best club in kiev and to their behaviour is shit!

the main problem is that with no river palace, it is easy you end your night in rio, but not so easy to find there something it worth the 300usd, the flight, the accomodation to get to kiev.


....i am still pondering over this experience, trying to figure out how all this could happen; how i, insomniaque the first, a monger and a gfe expert (or so i thought) could be cheated to such an incredible extent. how i was so totally blind and failed to detect anything during the private dance, which is precisely what private dances are all about. i find that disturbing. that helen is a really good actress, for sure. but still. i should have seen it coming.thanks insomniaque to report it, i easily believe you are experienced and you were cheated very well.

the rio girls are totally spoiled so or you go there with the idea you take one home only if she really convinces you or it can be a total disaster and even that, as it happens to you, sometimes it is not enough to avoid such disaster girl!

interesting that after 3 times in rio and no girl, i was thinking i am too exigent, instead i was so right, no girl cause they do not worth to be taken!

Johneash
05-31-11, 00:36
I read almost only great reports about Rio and I was very curious to check it.

The problem is that even if a girl in strip club is nice, she can change totally once in apartment, but a girl cold in strip club very seldom turn to be a good one in bed.

I am pretty sure most of report about GFE of Rio girls or they are fake or they are reports written from people that probably spend 30 years of life with fat ugly wife so even a table with a shape of average girl can be called GFE, that's my opinion and I am pretty sure about what I write!The same can be said about any girl that one decides to pay for sex with. No girl, I repeat no girl is enjoying her time with a "john", some goof balls like to pretend otherwise, I just LOL at their foolishness.

You are correct when you write about girl quality, I don't think many of the people posting even have fat ugly wives, I think the only women they have spoken to is their mother.

Honestly, this bs about Kiev girls being stunning is total shit, yes there are stunning girls is Kiev, but they are no different than any part of europe!

I also don't get why some of these guys want to fuck the same girl their buddy fucked yesterday, more pretending to themselves they are getting something special?

Anyway Lukasek, my hat comes off to you sir, good to see at least on sane poster on this forum.

LilJoey
05-31-11, 06:08
Back to Rio as I wanted to make up for the previous night. I managed to arrive early and found myself in the club around 9:30. A manager offered me to sit at the bar, I said,"Oh, come on", handed a bill, he laughed and gave me a table in the big room upstairs. I did not dare ask for the VIP; anyway, I wanted to see some new girls so trying another room was my best bet.

So I ordered a drink and started reviewing the chicks; nothing spectacular until one comes on stage whom instantly turned me on. She was not quite my style (really skinny, I like them a little bit more voluptuous) but her face was very nice, plus she danced in a more technical (and horny) way than the others, and above all the very second she was there she started staring at me with a big smile, ignoring the other few customers. I had never had such a strong eye-contact before, and quite logically I told her to give me a private dance as soon as she would be finished.

There, I decided to try out Liljoey's approach, I. E. To "push" and see what's happening. So I started kissing and licking her tits and kissing her in the neck, and soon found myself masturbating her, first gently, and then more energically, and she responded to my efforts by moaning in such a way that I worried about my pants. Fuck me, what a sl*t!"What if I asked you to go out with me and come to my place", I asked."Maybe", she replied with a naughty smile,"are you a good boy?" I offered her a drink so that she could decide whether I was good or not. But the deal was already made, and I knew I was going to have a shag to remember.

So we returned to my table and started chit-chatting (good English, by the way, which is something I appreciate). Her alias was "Helen", she was Russian and had come to Kiev for I don't recall what reason; actually I was not really listening to what she had to say, I was just thinking, son, you have found her, the genuine Russian be*tch, a monger's dream, and I kept wetting my pants like a dirty dog in power gaming mode.

Helen suggested that we first hang out and have fun somewhere before going to my appartement. I quite liked the idea, as it was still early (maybe 10:30) and I like to spend time with the girls, since it can really increase their GFE potential at the end of the day. Only we first had to wait for a buddy who was on his way; he arrived around 11, had a quick drink, took out his girl (he already knew which one, he had fucked her the night before and was addicted) and we got out of the Rio together: Helen, Marina, my wingman and myself.

And then something strange happened. Helen's attitude changed dramatically. I mean dramatically from my perspective. I am quite sensitive to such things and although it might have gone unnoticed to many, I instictively switched to DEFCON 4; she was no longer winking or smiling but seemed instead rather impatient and a bit bored. At this point, had I been given the choice to fly back in time and take another girl out, I would have probably seized the occasion; but there was no way I could get my $300 back now, was there? And my buddy was willing to go anyway, and I could not let him down. So we asked the girls which place they had in mind. D'lux. Of course. One of the most expensive clubs in Kiev. DEFCON 3.

So we took a cab to the club, paid the entrance fee (UAH500, nice rip-off) and the deposit (a nasty trick) for a table. A waiter showed up, and we made it clear to the chicks that we were just here for a couple of drinks and dancing and that ordering the whole fucking menu was out of the question. The waiter came back with our drinks a few moments later and we started enjoying the show, so to speak: a tombola, and then some kind of fucking endless fashion show sponsored by a brand of ugly jeans wored by rather ugly models. Geez. Meanwhile Helen was cooler than ever, she was acting as if I did not exist and I really did not like the smell of it.

And then ANOTHER waiter came to our table with a meal. And then another meal. And then another."Have you girls ordered all this stuff?" Helen replied,"I haven't eaten today!" We retorted that it was not our concern, but it was too late: they had done it. They had ordered the whole fucking menu. In fucking D'lux. Against our will. DEFCON 1.

This is where I went apeshit and told my wingman "Who the fuck is going to pay for all this, not you, not me, those fucking be*tches played us a trick, let's get the fuck out of here and they will handle the bill, why not return to Rio and complain, this is fucking unacceptable!" But my buddy replied,"you know we will have to pay in the end, that's just the game, you make mistakes that you won't do again; you live and learn, that's the most we can make of the situation now." Still I was not at all prepared to pay an astronomical bill, this was just not going to happen and I could not afford it anyway. My pal took upon himself to pay most of it as he could afford it, so I was sort of relieved; but in the principle, I was pissed off, as we had got fucked like newbies.

Total damage for the night (which my wingman and I shared) : 100 bribe to Rio manager + 200 private dance + approx. 500 drinks in Rio + 500 entrance fee to D'lux + 2100 drinks and meals + 100 taxi + 4800 for the take-outs = UAH8300 = a thousand fucking dollars. Ouch.

Now, regarding my shag (as there eventually was one) , it is one of the most awful I had to date. Forget the GFE, naturally, and it was not even a proper shag as per "normal" standards. Not only Helen did not like to fuck with me, but she was not even capable of delivering properly a mere mechanical service. The most awful blowjob EVER. (The teeth, for fuck sake, the TEETH.) Almost made me regret to have a dick. I had to really concentrate to cross the finish line, closing my eyes and remembering some good old porn I knew by heart. Isn't that ironical, spending a fucking fortune for a girl in Kiev, just to end up thinking hard of the movies you have at home. But you live and learn. Live and learn.

I am still pondering over this experience, trying to figure out how all this could happen; how I, Insomniaque the First, a monger and a GFE expert (or so I thought) could be cheated to such an incredible extent. How I was so totally blind and failed to detect anything during the private dance, which is precisely what private dances are all about. I find that disturbing. That Helen is a really good actress, for sure. But still. I SHOULD have seen it coming. Dear Insomniaque,

Hi there, I cringed reading about the Helen fiasco you endured.

Did you tell Pasha or Dima or any of the managers about what happened at any subsequent time? They should be told so that if the club cares about quality control, she will be canned and another member of our ranks will not suffer the same fate and rip-off.

Come to think of it, did you ask any of the managers if Helen was good BEFORE you took her out? I wonder whether they would have recommended her. Or were you so turned on by the hot private dance, that you felt you could skip that safety measure?

Looking back, do you think you can pinpoint the moment when Helen's attitude shifted? Do you think it was simply receipt of the money, after which she felt free to rip you off? Or was it anything you or your friend did or said?

The girl's behavior was outrageous in being such a user and ordering a lot of high priced food at D'lux and taking advantage of you. Perhaps she is used to men who lavish her with treats and generosity and takes it for granted, so from her perspective it's easy to imagine the girl resenting that you didn't want to feed her when she was hungry, Possibly after the argument over letting the girl order food at D'lux, her attitude toward sex with you took a downward spin.

But interestingly, your friend who had fucked Marina the night before and was addicted to her, is not reported by you to have had a bad session. I'm curious how your wingman ended up.

LESSON ONE: SEX FIRST, CLUBS AFTER.

I'm usually tired late at night and would be concerned that both I and the girl will be too tired to enjoy sex late at night after a whole night of clubbing. So I never went to a club first, especially if I paid only $300 for a 3 hour date. The time will evaporate too quickly, and there will be no time for my planned 2. 3 hours sex-a-thon. Now, after your experience, even if I take the girl for the whole night, I will bring her home for sex first and take care of business, but good! Then if there is still any interest in going out to a club, maybe I will consider it.

But remember, these girls are mostly students during day, and then they work all night. So they get very little sleep and are therefore at the edge of exhaustion at all times. Given the opportunity to sleep, they will sleep the night away.

I learned about this sleep factor, the hard way when I took out Taya, one of the real beauties at Rio, in my opinion a 10 in the looks department. The first time I took Taya it was for three hours, and the sex was good and she went back to club after three hours. The second time I took her for the whole night for $400, but instead of sex all night long, and instead of even some good sex first before going to sleep, I saw how exhausted she looked, and chivalrous gentleman that I was, I told her she could take a nap for a couple of hours to refresh herself before we had sex. And maybe went out to a club. It soon became clear that she had a different agenda. So she went to sleep and the hours passed and she showed no signs of waking, so after three hours of watching her sleep next to me, I couldn't take it anymore and started playing with her pussy and diddling her clit and nibbling her ear etc while she slept, until she started waking and began to respond to the touch of my fingers on her pussy, and thus she was awakened into full sex mode where she was fully awake and fully aroused, and we had an "ok" sex session. Then she fell back asleep. And instead of another round of sex in the morning, I awoke to see her getting out of bed and being on the phone and saying she has to meet her sister at 8am, and we didn't have time to have sex again. Bottom line is that the 3 hour session which was all sex, was much better than the all night which was mostly sleeping and a little sex.

LESSON TWO: NO GUARANTEES.

The fiasco of rip off girl Helen, must be contrasted with the wonderful experiences you previously had with the other girls you took home from Rio. How many good ones have you had until now?

It also can not erase the 4 great girls that I have taken home from Rio and had great GFE sex with, or the reports by Tango9001 of his great sessions with Yanna and Gloria (both girls whom I have seen with my own eyes and I know they look sensational) , or TheKnight's reports, or the reports by others with great experiences.

But what your report does communicate is that there are no guarantees for a great GFE session with Rio girls, anymore than you could have a guarantee of GFE from a WG you took out of the River Palace in its day, or D'lux nightclub or Buddha Bar today, or mamba or top-modals or the street. It is always a gamble and one needs his best mongering skills to sense if the girl will be a good session in advance. This applies to all venues for WG's including Rio. Your rude awakening at the hands of Helen the rip off, will serve to make you more keenly aware of the risks and more careful in the interview process in the future. I know I surely shall be more careful, because my winning streak could end just as abruptly as yours did.

However, the risks of a rip off girl exist in ALL the venues where we might look for WG's. So what you experienced with Helen is not a reason to go to Buddha Bar instead of Rio. There are no guarantees anywhere. So we must practice our art of mongering with care everywhere.

One pointer I will raise. When you have a girl to your apartment and the demand is made for payment in advance, you are being put in the same position as in Rio where you pay in advance in the club before going with the girl to your apartment. I have addressed this problem in an earlier post but it bears repeating here. After payment you are at the girl's mercy for whether she will deliver GFE service or poor service. Therefore, wherever possible respond by saying that you will count out the money and place it on the table for her, but it is agreed that she will only take the money at the end of the session when she is leaving. If she agrees it is a good sign of good faith on her part. If not, it's a bad sign that maybe she intends to default on delivery of services. This recommendation cannot help you at Rio, but may be helpful for girls from other venues.

As to Rio, I think some of us who are put in a position of receiving poor service at the hands of Rio girls, should make this feedback known to the managers so they can warn other customers that may ask, and so that remedial action can be taken by the club as to the offending girl. I wonder what the club managers would do, or whether they want to hear such feedback. But we should find out. Although remember that officially for legal reasons the club disavows any knowledge of the girls' activities outside the club and has no part in your discussions with the girls regarding a date with you outside the club. But the club does want a good reputation and probably doesn't want girls who are not nice to their customers working at club. So maybe they will take some action and speak to the girls in such a way to minimize such unfortunate events.

Like you said: live and learn.

LJ

Mystery77
05-31-11, 07:09
Reminds me in Patipa nightclub the drinks are well priced, however they sell some kind of champagne for 1800grn a bottle. These girls that do the show on a Tuesday or Wednesday. The fella I was with made friendly with one of the girls from the show for some time now. In other words banging her time to time when he lands in Kiev. So she comes to the table lovely girl. Invites her friends. O my god! Ametuer hour here we go again! Hello! =) The one girlfriend within the space of 2 minutes is demanding the most expensive drink on the menu! From me over & over again. I smile at her & say what about a Corona haha big smile! No this one! She demands again with this high maintenance I deserve it attitude. I look to my fellow ISG brother with a half grin & say."Name" this girl would like some champagne. He goes after looking at the menu. Head shaking a no chance, nono not. The bubbly drink that we bought for the girls was okay, it accompanied & made fine standing next to the Corona with lemon, Jack Daniels on the rocks. The girl that refused the bubbly which was poured before her, got up after another few minutes realizing she is not getting what she wants, picks up the bubbly that she did not like or want, refused it actually. & gave us both the "look," flicked around as if brushing us off & walked off with a stamper. It was very entertaining. The others left to prepare for the next part of the show also. They came back afterwards. Maintenance comes to sit by me again, anyways I pass this lady over for her friend or work associate next to her. No points for why. Pretty hot & interested in some touching, kissing, playing. So great. I go off to look around the club, sit alone have some me time for a minute. Ah who shows up for a kiss & wants to sit on my lap.

Mystery77
05-31-11, 07:51
Insomniaque

Thats the thing with professional strippers, Remember they time after time after time! Encounter thousand upon thousand's of men. From badboys to richboys. You can have a lot of fun with strippers, get sucked into the emotional up & downs, enjoy playing games or hearing about these exboyfriends, & how bad they all were. & how you should be a real man & prove yourself. Shaking her ass getting lots of attention in clubs. All the boys that are getting no pussy, or that should like a little, or the ones that think they bad enough to take some, will all try make a pitch in some way or another. So you got 2 problems here. 1 is pride or the shame of being put down by some annoymous random in the world, & secondly the jealously that may slowly build from within. Acting on 1 of the 2 likely feelings will eventually spur the other come future. If not a dual beginning of both emotional feelings. I got some stripper stories alright! . . Though on the contrary a good friend of mine in the Dam! Amsterdam that is, has had a good relationship with a stripper for the past 3 years. Unlike the fuckup I decided to spend "quality" time with. However you can have a lot of fun. Just watch the emotional connections that sneak up on you, & the more you do the more you can become connected. As in a way as a parent does for a child. Feelings of responsibility over. I met a British lad in Rock Hard A Go Go in Phuket after I broke up with the stripper I was seeing for almost 2 years of traumatic excitement. He was deeply invested inlove with this Czech Republic stripper, bought her an apartment in Prague & everything. He was upset a little as the stripper did not come to Phuket with him & she had a ticket & a nice 5 star bedroom on Patong beachfront awaiting her. It was very good to share our war stories for a few hours, talk about the battles & outcomes. He even had the shakes a little, in Britain they say,"Mate she's doing your head in."

So another point, if you are playing with a professional fuck you artist. If things start good & it is actually love etc etc. Remember when or if things go bad for whatever reason. This woman has more experience in triggering your male psychology then you can imagine. Nevermind your second head. If things go wrong or she wants out, & your heart & mind is invested. You are likely to incur some loss & pain. & listen to the advice of telling strippers. If you breakup go meet someone straight away! It saves the thinking memories & all that head shit. Know your psychology, if you are analytical you really going to be fucked! Don't do as I did. The hard way & not meet women for a time afterwards. Go be a man, ney a fucking Lion! Catch & eat the Zebra. Devour it whole.

Insomniaque
05-31-11, 09:17
Firstly, to answer Liljoey's questions, no, I did not bother asking Pasha or some other manager if Helen was any good, I didn't even think about it as I was so sure. My bad. I did not return to Rio and inform the management of what I had been through, as my plane was taking off the very morning; but I will do so next time I am in Kiev, if ever Helen is still working here.

Regarding Rio in general, I have taken out 3 different girls so far. First one was Erika, whom I took out twice and then met another two times after she had left Rio; a truly exceptional experience. Second one was Malvina, nice girl, nice shag, but nothing to rewatch when you die and the movie of your life passes in your mind for half a second. Third one was Helen. 1 spectacularly good. 1 good. 1 spectacularly bad: this would make an average or 6 or 7 out of 10, something like that.

I tend to see Rio differently now. So far I figured that, regardless of the looks of the girls, the average level of service was higher than in other venues, or than what you could get through Mamba and the like. But maybe is it just that I was very lucky on my first try. With Erika, everything had happened like in a dream; a genuine chemistry, an unforgettable private show (I had private dances with a dozen different girls so far, including Agatha who did it quite well, but Erika still remains unsurpassed) and then the best shag of my career. From there, I definitely conceived very high expectations: what I am learning now is that reality does not (always) meet them. Don't get me wrong: I still think you can get awesome GFE from Rio; that is not the point. It's just that I am no longer so sure that the premium against standard WG (entrance fee to Rio + bribe to managers + private dances + obviously the $300) is worth it, as it does not seem to really increase your chance of getting a real GFE, which from my perspective was its sole justification.

And you can't say either that there are more stunners in Rio than elsewhere; I have never seen many 9' and 10' on any given night, only a couple of them at best (even in the VIP area). Nikita could be a 9+ in my own scale; Agatha is a 10; Ada and Eva could be a 9, if I remember correctly, and I guess Mira could be an 8; this is all I can recall at the minute, in terms of stunning specimens. And on top of that, would these girls remain so in broad daylight, without the make up, the dim lights, the g-strings and the high-heels (God, I love those things)? Would Nikita or Agatha, for instance, stand a chance against the Moroccan goddess I found via Mamba, who was a 10 "au naturel"? I am not sure. Of course, with Mamba, for one goddess you find, you will have a dozen of average looking girls, so it is really a matter of luck. Yet again, is the Rio premium really worth it?

Now, regarding how I could be cheated so nicely by the Troyan actress. I recall everything that happened so as to try and find any bad omens I could have overlooked. At the stage of the public dance and the eye-contact, there is really nothing I could have been aware of; she really acted like she wanted me and nobody else; not even with Erika had the eye-contact been so strong. That girl really deserves an Oscar for her performance! Now, at the stage of the private dance, a thing that could have alarmed me is that, even though I was pushing, I couldn't get her to French kiss me. I remember having been turned off a bit by that; on the other hand, I had just had a pizza, a beer, a vodka-redbull and many cigs (I smoke an awful lot) and it is more than likely that my breath didn't quite smell like the heavenly roses of the garden of Eden; and since all the other indicators (smiles, looks, moanings, moves and the fact she let me frankly lick her and masturbate her) were positive, I had no real reason to worry.

The stage of the conversation is probably where I actually failed. If I compare with Erika, where it was quite natural, friendly and funny, with Helen it was a bit uneasy, it was not that interesting and there were a couple of silences that made me feel a bit uncomfortable. And the eye-contact was already weaker than during the 2 previous stages. This is something I will really pay attention to, from now on. It seems that the interview is at least as important as the private dance in the process of selecting the right girl.

Upon leaving the club, I truly realised something was wrong, as it was so obvious. But too late.

I am not sure this Helen is that bad of a person; I would rather think it's in her mentality. As a matter of fact, she thanked me for the nice evening, which really surprised me. I think that type of girls are used to quite generous customers and do expect us to pay for entertainment, even though we have already paid for a fuck; that's the way they see things. After the shag, when she asked for some money for taxi and I refused (I would not have spent one more penny on her!) she looked shocked, as if it was me who was not behaving!

As for my wingman, since Liljoey asked, well, he was more fortunate than me: he had just another fantastic shag with "his" Marina. Already the 5th time he is taking her out and he can't seem to take any other girl, she really put a spell on him. In my own scale she would hardly reach a 5 but she turns him on to death and he claims she fucks like a queen. Except once where she was sully and tired and he had to send her back without fucking her (even though he had pay the $300). But 4 exceptional shags out of 5 is already good, I suppose.

CallSign Papa
05-31-11, 14:19
"Sometimes you'll meet a hooker with a heart of gold, but a stripper will always take your last cent"

I forget where I heard that quote, but it's always seemed true to me. I think strippers get used to taking money from guys in clubs easily and quickly. They know what to say and do and they very rarely have to put in too much effort (unless they're on the pole).

Mystery77
05-31-11, 16:09
"Sometimes you'll meet a hooker with a heart of gold, but a stripper will always take your last cent"

I forget where I heard that quote, but it's always seemed true to me. I think strippers get used to taking money from guys in clubs easily and quickly. They know what to say and do and they very rarely have to put in too much effort (unless they're on the pole). I met some diamonds in Kiev. You are 100% Some real cool working girls / hookers.

Also I find ultimately even though strippers they want a holiday, or more cash. In the end they in general prefer more alpha or masculine traits come end. Some action, someone to adventure with, someone that won't take to much shit. Though seekings holes in your armour is literally a game to some more experienced negative based strippers. & the main weapon they have against you in the end, is the emotional connections that have been placed over time.

Eliciting emotions is a key characteristic when dating experienced players, actually falsely making an argument. Or crying. Nobody loves me, or what the fuck ever. Getting you invested emotionally seriously. While on her part it is but an act. So you have this big fight & think thats it I'm out of here! Then the flip comes just before the door closes, follows you down the street. Crying I'm so sorry I love you, please don't leave me, it's not me! The boss sends me out, or its his fault her fault. You get the idea.

& this is key people... Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to there level, & then beat you with experience. & that also goes for educated idiots as well, I lost but I was right. I don't understand. It does not compute.

Poem for the pleasure of the community:

If you think you are beaten, you are. If you think you dare not, you don't. If you like to win, but you think you can't, It is almost certain you won't. If you think you'll lose you've lost. For out of the world we find. Success begins with a fellow's state of mind. If you think you are outclassed, you are. You've got to think high to rise. You've got to be sure of yourself before You can ever win a prize. Lifes battles don't always go To the stronger or faster man (or more intelligent man) ; But soon or late the man who wins, Is the man who thinks he can.

Angus Magee
05-31-11, 16:18
If you think you are beaten, you are. If you think you dare not, you don't. If you like to win, but you think you can't, It is almost certain you won't. If you think you'll lose you've lost. For out of the world we find. Success begins with a fellow's state of mind. If you think you are outclassed, you are. You've got to think high to rise. You've got to be sure of yourself before You can ever win a prize. Lifes battles don't always go To the stronger or faster man (or more intelligent man) ; But soon or late the man who wins, Is the man who thinks he can.
Or in other words.


A little railroad engine was employed about a station yard for such work as it was built for, pulling a few cars on and off the switches. One morning it was waiting for the next call when a long train of freight-cars asked a large engine in the roundhouse to take it over the hill "I can't; that is too much a pull for me," said the great engine built for hard work. Then the train asked another engine, and another, only to hear excuses and be refused. In desperation, the train asked the little switch engine to draw it up the grade and down on the other side. "I think I can," puffed the little locomotive, and put itself in front of the great heavy train. As it went on the little engine kept bravely puffing faster and faster, "I think I can, I think I can, I think I can."As it neared the top of the grade, which had so discouraged the larger engines, it went more slowly. However, it still kept saying, "I--think--I--can, I--think--I--can." It reached the top by drawing on bravery and then went on down the grade, congratulating itself by saying, "I thought I could, I thought I could."The Little Engine That Could.

I guess all I ever really learned I learned in Kindergarten.

;)

AM

Insomniaque
05-31-11, 19:20
"Sometimes you'll meet a hooker with a heart of gold, but a stripper will always take your last cent"

I forget where I heard that quote, but it's always seemed true to me. I think strippers get used to taking money from guys in clubs easily and quickly. They know what to say and do and they very rarely have to put in too much effort (unless they're on the pole). I see no reason why strippers should be any worse than any other girl engaged in sex business. For a few "hearts of gold", hundreds of bitches: I think that's the rule, everywhere.

Like anyone in their right mind, I hate to be fucked; but hey, that's just the game we all chose to play in the first place. Let us not forget that many of those bitches have been damaged by life, and by men in particular; now it's just a matter of who is going to fuck who at the end of the day. And when I think of it, given the way I behave with women myself, I am not so sure I have the right to complain.

There is a real problem only for those who, like me, are after GFE. A few pages ago I argued with Acolonizer regarding how to play the game: I think my whole trip clearly shows we are both right and wrong. I hardly think I could have such great experiences as with Erika if I never lowered my guard, as there still are some good girls out there and if you start regarding all the girls as scammers you will just miss those few gems, and if I ever ended up thinking that all girls are bitches, I guess would just stop mongering. On the other hand, on my last night, I lowered my guard while I should have not, and I took a right hook. Not an easy game, really.


Poem for the pleasure of the community:

If you think you are beaten, you are. If you think you dare not, you don't. If you like to win, but you think you can't, It is almost certain you won't. If you think you'll lose you've lost. For out of the world we find. Success begins with a fellow's state of mind. If you think you are outclassed, you are. You've got to think high to rise. You've got to be sure of yourself before You can ever win a prize. Lifes battles don't always go To the stronger or faster man (or more intelligent man) ; But soon or late the man who wins, Is the man who thinks he can. Fucking true words.

Drgn
05-31-11, 19:25
I met some diamonds in Kiev. You are 100% Some real cool working girls / hookers.

Also I find ultimately even though strippers they want a holiday, or more cash. In the end they in general prefer more alpha or masculine traits come end. Some action, someone to adventure with, someone that won't take to much shit. Though seekings holes in your armour is literally a game to some more experienced negative based strippers. & the main weapon they have against you in the end, is the emotional connections that have been placed over time.

Eliciting emotions is a key characteristic when dating experienced players, actually falsely making an argument. Or crying. Nobody loves me, or what the fuck ever. Getting you invested emotionally seriously. While on her part it is but an act. So you have this big fight & think thats it I'm out of here! Then the flip comes just before the door closes, follows you down the street. Crying I'm so sorry I love you, please don't leave me, it's not me! The boss sends me out, or its his fault her fault. You get the idea.

& this is key people. Never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to there level, & then beat you with experience. & that also goes for educated idiots as well, I lost but I was right. I don't understand. It does not compute. Too many stories from guys thinking with their d*ck, instead of their big head, and then being surprised when things turn to sh*t. PAY ATTENTION to the woman in front of you and stop gushing over her physical appearance. There's an American saying,"Fool, act like you've been here before." Some guys turn stupid when an attractive woman is talking to them and they fail to notice what's ACTUALLY happening. If you don't have the "stones" to totally control that interaction when dealing with party girls / strippers / professional players, then you are IN OVER YOUR HEAD. The guys they choose to f*ck in their personal lives (smile) are not following them around like love struck puppy dogs hoping to get a piece. The guys they CHOOSE to f*ck are the type of men that can replace them with minimal effort, while still being charming, fun, cool mother f*ckers.

Guys, you're in a strip club. They are PROFESSIONALS at flirting. It's what they do. Why on earth would someone think eye contact from a STRIPPER means she's totally into you? WTF! She's into you when she's already f*cked you twice and is pushing for more. They've had more experience than most men can even fathom and are master manipulators (strippers, club queens, professional sugar babies, etc.) They're VERY good at doing just enough to get a guy to jump through hoops if he isn't already; which is one reason why the interaction can turn cold quickly. They're also masters of the "takeaway". (Poor guy is thinking,"if I do more for her, then maybe she'll give me what I want".) Nope. These girls do it so often that the behavior is on autopilot. (I've had to verbally smack more than a few women for treating me like a "mark". Shuts down autopilot so then they appreciate "fun, cool, and charming". Consequently, if you behave this way with "normal" women without the autopilot B. S, you come across as an arrogant jerk.

Ultimately, if she isn't putting in the effort on some level to move the interaction forward, then you're S. O. L, just a means-to-an-end.

Stevie69
05-31-11, 19:45
I am flattered that my prose was sufficiently elegant to the quoted, and I prefer not to engage in 2-way discussions, but I think this is simply a matter of a misunderstanding. I hope nobody thinks this discussion is between someone who has in interested in increasing sex tourism and someone who want to prevent it.

I think the difference of opinion depends on the definition of the word 'supermodel'. What is a 'supermodel'? Think of Marisa, Miranda, Adriana, etc. A 'supermodel' is simply a woman who gets an exorbitant amount of money for doing what others do for a lot less, and many do for free: to show off her bodies or to show off clothes on their bodies. So, why do they get so much money? It is NOT because they are more beautiful! Sure they are beautiful, just as beautiful as many other regular models. In most cases, this 'supermodel' status takes several years to achieve, and these woman are NOT unlike every other woman in the planet; they do NOT get more beautiful as they get older. They were actually more beautiful when they started, when they were 18 or younger. The reason they get some much money is due to clever marketing, reputation, seizing the opportunity, good make-up, hair and other support staff, and plain old luck.

It is the same among working girls. Some of them have figured out how to get an exorbitant amount of money for their services. How they got there? Well, perhaps they are a little smarter or more experienced. They work at 'high end' places; they approach only high rollers; they make sure they look their best when they are working; they work under 'favourable' light conditions; l they use heavy make-up; they wear high heels; they truly convince themselves and behave as if they are :elite' companions; they invest on cosmetic procedures; they know how to appeal to male fantasies. Are they more beautiful? No, they just have better marketing.

People interested in spending $500 a pop (all costs included) can easily stay home. An 'elite' companion in London, Paris, New York, or any other major city will cost about that much. Yes, you can also pay far more. They beauty about Kiev, and most of Eastern Europe for that matter, is that you can get the same type of girl for a fraction of the cost. If there were not this abundance of beautiful women, then people (like us) would not travel there to meet them.

On a nice summer day, in any city in Easter Europe, including Kiev, there are hundreds of beautiful women littering the streets. The difference with North America and some other parts of Europe? They are slim; they are elegant; they are feminine; they are sexy. You can go to Rio and pay $300 or more for a PROFESIONAL 'supermodel', or you can just stay home. Alternatively, you can have a perfectly beautiful 18 year-old student for under $100 who, in the back of her head, still hopes this meeting might turn into a real relationship, and will give you a great time.

But. Your own experience will tell the tale. Just make sure you do nto put all your efforts into one strategy, or the other.

Prosal
05-31-11, 20:53
Too many stories from guys .....Right on the money as usual Drgn.

Many guys here seem to remember that stripping (as pro sex for that matter) is all about role-playing. That's live theater, that's all.

Lacky007
05-31-11, 21:04
Hey guys,

Ok so I have booked Hotel Rus for my trip. The prices had gone up at $125 / night from last weeks $80. Aw well. Would post a FR of my trip when done.

In the meantime, if anyone has any suggestion for another hotel which is cheap then let me know.

Thanks so much for your help!If you want there is slavutich hotel, not is the best, but sure have the best price, with 40$ a night can have a good room. Found in google slavutic hotel Kiev.

Prosal
06-01-11, 07:42
Right on the money as usual Drgn.

Many guys here seem to remember that stripping (as pro sex for that matter) is all about role-playing. That's live theater, that's all. Read "to forget". Ooooops. (smilie)

Drgn
06-01-11, 19:12
Right on the money as usual Drgn.

Many guys here seem to remember that stripping (as pro sex for that matter) is all about role-playing. That's live theater, that's all. Thanks for the nod, Prosal.

KievGuy
06-02-11, 08:19
AAARGH! I just lost a long post because "I wasn't logged in"! Crap! Oh well, here it is again:

PLEASE lend me your experience. I have a lot of questions and just don't want to be ripped off or disappointed. Here is my situation:

I live one block off K Street and will be here on business for months. I'm working on my Russian but that will take some time. I'm English only for now. I can spend maybe $1500 a month on this comfortably, so I have to make my money count!

Here's my questions:

Where to find girls? You all seem to like clubs. I don't, but I'll go there if that's the best place to troll for girls. Is the consensus here that is where you will find the best girls and the best sex? How about just finding a reliable cab driver? Or (my preference) a web site like Mamba? Is Mamba the best website? Last, what about Escort services? Which one is best? I'm looking for advantages / disadvantages here.

Where to do it? I'd prefer my apartment, but is that wise? She could bring her friends to rip me off. Is security an issue? How about of she spends the night with me? Some of you have done this and I guess you weren't ripped off. Is it a good idea, though?

What? I like oral to completion (swallowing). Is that hard to find? Can I ask for it up front, or is considered rude? What is the best way to ask? How much should it cost?

When? Is it cheaper on weekdays? How about during the day? Some of the escort services seem to drop prices in the day.

How long? Is one hour not enough? Obviously the longer the better but let's be honest I'm not going to fall in love. Yet I don't want to feel rushed. You all seem to think 1. 5 hours is minimum. When does the clock start? DO you say when she walks in your room, OK, it's 1AM, my time starts now?

How much? I asked before, but someone posted don't pay until service is rendered. I agree, but do girls object to this? Is it customary?

Thanks for any advice in advance. I will reciprocate when I get some experience of my own. I will be calling a girl from Mamba today who says she will swallow for $100 unless I hear someone give me the red flag here.

Oh, one last thing: what do girls mean when they say "needs sponsor"?

=============================================

Compose Long Reports in Word Processor

Greetings Gentlemen,

I strongly suggest to everyone who is writing a long report that they write it in a word processing program first, then proofread and spell check, then save it as file on their computer, [u]THEN copy and paste it into the forum.

With this method, there is no danger of losing your work, and besides, it's easier to write in a real word procession program first. Even if you're in an Internet Cafe computer with no word processing program installed, you can always use Notepad or WordPad.

Thanks,

Jackson

KievGuy
06-02-11, 08:20
AAARGH! I just lost a long post because "I wasn't logged in"! Crap! Oh well, here it is again:

PLEASE lend me your experience. I have a lot of questions and just don't want to be ripped off or disappointed. Here is my situation:

I live one block off K Street and will be here on business for months. I'm working on my Russian but that will take some time. I'm English only for now. I can spend maybe $1500 a month on this comfortably, so I have to make my money count!

Here's my questions:

Where to find girls? You all seem to like clubs. I don't, but I'll go there if that's the best place to troll for girls. Is the consensus here that is where you will find the best girls and the best sex? How about just finding a reliable cab driver? Or (my preference) a web site like Mamba? Is Mamba the best website? Last, what about Escort services? Which one is best? I'm looking for advantages / disadvantages here.

Where to do it? I'd prefer my apartment, but is that wise? She could bring her friends to rip me off. Is security an issue? How about of she spends the night with me? Some of you have done this and I guess you weren't ripped off. Is it a good idea, though?

What? I like oral to completion (swallowing). Is that hard to find? Can I ask for it up front, or is considered rude? What is the best way to ask? How much should it cost?

When? Is it cheaper on weekdays? How about during the day? Some of the escort services seem to drop prices in the day.

How long? Is one hour not enough? Obviously the longer the better but let's be honest I'm not going to fall in love. Yet I don't want to feel rushed. You all seem to think 1. 5 hours is minimum. When does the clock start? DO you say when she walks in your room, OK, it's 1AM, my time starts now?

How much? I asked before, but someone posted don't pay until service is rendered. I agree, but do girls object to this? Is it customary?

Thanks for any advice in advance. I will reciprocate when I get some experience of my own. I will be calling a girl from Mamba today who says she will swallow for $100 unless I hear someone give me the red flag here.

=============================================

Compose Long Reports in Word Processor

Greetings Gentlemen,

I strongly suggest to everyone who is writing a long report that they write it in a word processing program first, then proofread and spell check, then save it as file on their computer, [u]THEN copy and paste it into the forum.

With this method, there is no danger of losing your work, and besides, it's easier to write in a real word procession program first. Even if you're in an Internet Cafe computer with no word processing program installed, you can always use Notepad or WordPad.

Thanks,

Jackson

Fox7717
06-02-11, 12:35
151786

There are probably far more cracking (the best?) EE chicks in London now than going through all the hassle and expense of traveling. The attached babe is 200 quid / hour and in my view they do not come much hotter! So overall it's cheaper. BTW this girl is genuine and comes highly recommended. Just perfect.

Member #4243
06-02-11, 23:50
Hi having visited fkk clubs in germany frequently over the last few years and being based in england I am now considering a venture further east into Kiev to hopefully sample some of the beauties there. I have read the forum and have a few questions which I would appreciate help with.

1) Only liking to go with a girl that I can first of all see ie NOT internet or mamba or agencies etc from what I have read.

Rio seems to be my best bet. It will be my first time in ukraine, I will be staying for around 6/7 nights so do not mind.

Paying more to get the works, as it will be my holiday too. Of course nothing is 100 percent guaranteed anywhere.

2) With regards to Rio club I am of egyptian origin but born in england. Is there any form of anti foreigner ie as I am of.

Middle eastern appearance would this be a potential block to gaining access into the club due to face control. In some.

German clubs for example only white german looking men are admitted. If this is or is not an issue could someone

Confirm having seen middle eastern / turkish looking men in the club. To fly in from england and then be refused entry would be a killer in Rio.

3) Is a smart shirt and trousers / shoes ok or do you need a suit blazer ie even smarter for face control / entrance?

4) Are solid gold / millenium / premier palace cabaret the best alternative strip clubs to Rio for girl beauty and ease of dealings / take outs etc?

5) Finally I understand at Rio 300dollars is for 4 hours? Can it be for longer at this price or do the girls have to be back for 5am? Thanks alot for all replies mohab

LilJoey
06-03-11, 06:24
151786

There are probably far more cracking (the best?) EE chicks in London now than going through all the hassle and expense of traveling. The attached babe is 200 quid / hour and in my view they do not come much hotter! So overall it's cheaper. BTW this girl is genuine and comes highly recommended. Just perfect. Do you report this girl as genuine based upon personal knowledge?

Be advised that this same girl is advertised as available in Kiev for 100 Euro! Take a look at the following link.

http://escort-models.com/en/girls/escort-independent/ukraine/olesja_2167.html

Sorry to burst your bubble, but obviously this is a bait and switch photo either in Kiev or in London or, more likely, in both.

I would be happy to be corrected by you and you to report that you met this girl personally in London and she appears as advertised, since London is one of my playgrounds. So please let us know if you actually met her, or did you just read a review and accept it as true.

LJ

Curious12
06-03-11, 06:42
Where to find girls?You can find them anywhere. K street has plenty of good stores. Shoes, clothes, you can go in there and try to talk to many different girls. Results will vary but you can get some freebies that way. I haven't been to Kiev for two years but I doubt that the stores have changed much. Most of them have female sales associates. Try Globus, high end perfume stores.


Is Mamba the best website?Mamba is the most popular website. Personally I don't like it because of fake pictures. Many profiles are not genuine. I prefer to meet girls in real life (clubs, on the street, stores etc.) But it doesn't mean that you cannot try. Just be careful and don't be afraid to send girls home if someone else has arrived to your place (not the girl in the picture).


Where to do it? I'd prefer my apartment, but is that wise? She could bring her friends to rip me off. Is security an issue? How about of she spends the night with me? Some of you have done this and I guess you weren't ripped off. Is it a good idea, though?Most of mongers who invited girls to their apartments have stayed in Kiev for a few days / weeks. It was a rental apartment. Your situation will be different? Again be careful and use your own judgement.


What? I like oral to completion (swallowing). Is that hard to find? Can I ask for it up front, or is considered rude? What is the best way to ask? How much should it cost?It all depends. Could be free, could be $300. It depends how much you are willing to pay. Of course if you're fluent in Russian, you will have a better chance to score some freebies. Some girls would get upset if you ask upfront, some would be ok. Again it all depends on each particular situation.

LilJoey
06-03-11, 07:57
i tend to see rio differently now. so far i figured that, regardless of the looks of the girls, the average level of service was higher than in other venues, or than what you could get through mamba and the like. but maybe is it just that i was very lucky on my first try. with erika, everything had happened like in a dream; a genuine chemistry, an unforgettable private show (i had private dances with a dozen different girls so far, including agatha who did it quite well, but erika still remains unsurpassed) and then the best shag of my career. from there, i definitely conceived very high expectations: what i am learning now is that reality does not (always) meet them. don't get me wrong: i still think you can get awesome gfe from rio; that is not the point. it's just that i am no longer so sure that the premium against standard wg (entrance fee to rio + bribe to managers + private dances + obviously the $300) is worth it, as it does not seem to really increase your chance of getting a real gfe, which from my perspective was its sole justification.

and you can't say either that there are more stunners in rio than elsewhere; i have never seen many 9' and 10' on any given night, only a couple of them at best (even in the vip area). nikita could be a 9+ in my own scale; agatha is a 10; ada and eva could be a 9, if i remember correctly, and i guess mira could be an 8; this is all i can recall at the minute, in terms of stunning specimens. and on top of that, would these girls remain so in broad daylight, without the make up, the dim lights, the g-strings and the high-heels (god, i love those things)? would nikita or agatha, for instance, stand a chance against the moroccan goddess i found via mamba, who was a 10 "au naturel"? i am not sure. of course, with mamba, for one goddess you find, you will have a dozen of average looking girls, so it is really a matter of luck. yet again, is the rio premium really worth it? dear insomniaque.

chances of gfe.

you wrote that 'increased chances of getting a gfe' was your sole justification for mongering at rio strip club. i suppose the reason for your expectation of an increased chance of gfe at the strip club was based on the fact that it is a controlled environment and presumably the club supervises its product (the girls) and exercises 'quality control' to insure they behave properly. i'm not sure that is the case, particularly since the managers always said that the club has nothing to do with the customers' discussions with the girls about going out of the club. since the club disassociates itself from the out of club activities of the girls, i assumed that i was on my own with the girl. i assumed the gfe chances were similar to any independent girl i might meet at a nightclub, which is why the interview process is always crucial.

whether or not there is any 'quality control' at rio, and whether the managers can and will address customer complaints with remedial action toward the offending girl, still remains at this point a question.

but i had other reasons for going to rio which are worth considering. my reasons were (a) cost—related and (be) efficiency—related.

(a) in terms of costs, i felt that the prices being asked by the girls in the nightclubs ($300 or $400 for two hours, which is a net rate of $150-$200 per hour) were higher than the costs at rio ($300 for three hours, or a net rate of $100 per hour). i was capable of utilizing and enjoying three hours with a beautiful girl, and the price was low enough, so i was ok with the 3 hour minimum.

(be) in terms of efficiency, the girls at rio were all collected there in one place beginning earlier than nightclubs at 8:00 pm opening time and were being passed directly in front of me a few at a time, leaving me free to easily approach and make contact with any girl i saw that i wanted to speak to, or have her summoned to me by a manager. i could fully see the body and looks of each girl from all angles. this was much more efficient than the nightclub scene where i would have to chase all over a nightclub after a girl i might like or go to nightclubs all over the city and then at each nightclub i would have to spend time to figure out who was an 'available' wg. plus my visits to avalon and buddha bar were failures because there were not a lot a lot of girls to be found there at the time of my visits. so i didn't want to waste more time with the nightclubs, and chose the efficient and more certain location for girls who i might take home.

i also felt that pursuing internet girls was a very inefficient direction to pursue because of the fake photos and bait and switch which resulted in a colossal waste of time. so despite the lower prices on the internet, i limited my involvement with mamba. ru and top-modals. com and other websites to daytime hours when there were no nightclub or strip club options, but for the evenings i felt the only viable options were nightclubs or the strip clubs like rio.

where is it possible to get girls who are 9's and 10's?

after taking in your recent report and your last comments, and the reports of others with negative strip club experiences, i think it worthwhile to go over all the options and put things into perspective for the readership, for the sake of maintaining the value of this forum as a source of useful and reliable information upon which travel and mongering decisions can be based for readers who have not been to kiev yet and seen for themselves.

i think that it is particularly important to restate the basics, in light of the continued postings by some members of this forum who write in each of their posts that there are hundreds of girls who are just as beautiful as the girls at rio strip club (which includes 9's and 10's) all over the streets of kiev who are ready to have sex for $60, which is simply not the case insofar as the 9's and 10's are concerned.

until i see evidence / pictures which convince me otherwise, i will concede and agree to writers like stevie69 and lukasek only that for between $60. $100 it is possible to get p4p from girls one can meet on the streets. but these are average looking girls to be rated maybe not more than between 5 – 7. if that is adequate to satisfy some members of this forum, it's great, because they can be happy while spending only a small amount of money comparatively. but dear readers, please understand that these cheaper girls are decidedly not the beauties who could be rated as 9's and 10's, which would be an extremely rare occurence.

i would also concede to writers like stevie69 and lukasek that at rio strip club there are many average looking girls who would be rated 5 – 7, and that it would be silly to pay $300 (plus the other club costs) for a girl who is at most a 7, when you might be able to find such a decent looking girl on the streets (after much time and trying) for $60. $100, unless you have no time to pursue it on the streets. but while stevie 69 and lukasek are correct about this assertion, it entirely misses the whole point!

the point is that at a strip club like rio there are also some girls who are really beautiful and could legitimately be rated as 9's or 10's. they are not the majority. they are not many. but they are there. and they are available. so at rio, for $300, it is possible to get a really beautiful girl who is a 9 or a 10 – and that is the point!

to think that there are hundreds of girls all over the streets of kiev that will have sex with you for $60 – and who are also real beauties on the level of 9's and 10's. is simply not true. i do not understand why these writers continue to assert otherwise. i am starting to believe that maybe they simply do not differentiate between a girl who is a 7 and a 10.

when i read in the reports of lukasek and stevie69 that at rio they only saw girls who looked no better than the girls that could be seen on the streets, but who only appeared a little sexier because they were naked, and that they saw no real 9's and 10's at rio, i begin to wonder what happened to them when they were at rio.

i know from my own eye-witness observations that at rio, there are some real beauties that could be rated 9's or 10's. is it possible lukasek and stevie69 simply were unlucky and didn't see the same girls i saw?

could someone look at a beautiful creature like taya and not say she was a 9 or a 10? or margarita? or nikita? or gloria? or maybe even yanna?

it is not just me who says that there are 9's and 10's at rio. read the comments of tango9001 or insomniaque in prior posts, or theknight. or read the comments below of jet setr, who met up with me at rio on the night of my duo (about which i wrote in my 'three's company' post of may 1, 2011). i was sitting with ada (brunette) and rosa (dark blond) :


joe is, indeed, not exaggerating about the hotness of the girls. the brunette was attractive and a sweetheart, but the blonde may have truly been one of the prettiest girls i have ever seen. she had the face of an angel. i thought i knew what a ten was, and then this girl completely reset my scale. her face would rate an 11-12 on my 'old' scale.

in general, i have never seen such a pretty ensemble as one sees just walking down the streets of kiev. it is truly amazing. most of the girls have these bright blue or green eyes and they are all usually in good shape and dress to the nines. fully 1/4 of them look like they are sisters or cousins of megan fox or mila kunis.

what does a 9 or a 10 look like? : in order to avoid further confusion on this issue, i am attaching hereto pictures of girls who i think could qualify as beauties to be rated as 9's or 10's. these are not kiev girls, but rather home grown usa beauties that i am presenting here both for your entertainment and to illustrate what i am referring to when i say a girl is a 9 or a 10. needless to say, you will not find hundreds of girls looking as good as these on the streets of kiev willing to have sex with you for $60. however, there are some girls approaching or at this level at rio, and some of them are available for sex for $300. i hope you guys out there get it now.

151808

151809

151810

151811

151812

151813

151814


a review of the kiev options.

the mongering options in kiev consist of the following types of venues / sources:

1. strip clubs that have take out.

2. nightclubs / bars that routinely have lots of working girls (wg's)

3. internet advertisements for escorts.

4. girl apartments.

5. street action

the rates and types of girls for each type of venue are as follows:

strip clubs: rio strip club rates for take out are $300/3hours, which is an effective net rate of $100 / hour. for an all night take out until 5am closing time at club when they must return to club, the rate at rio has been $400, and some guys have reported getting the girl to stay longer than 5am, which of course lowers the net rate per hour significantly. some of the girls just dance and do not do take out. the girls in the line-up at rio are all young and consist of many cute above average looking girls in the 5. 7 range, a significant number of very good looking girls in the 8. 9 range, and some stunning girls in the 9. 10 range.

paradise strip club, a sister club of rio, has the same line-up and rates, but is located far from downtown (about a 20 minute taxi ride). mandarin another sister club of rio is currently closed and is said to be reopening "soon". other strip clubs, as reported by theknight do have take out, but the rates are beginning at $400 and i'm not certain how many hours that fee covers, and the line up that wasn't so good. there has been little investigating and reporting on the other strip clubs.

* note: i report that there are girls at rio who are clearly 9's. 10's based on what i have seen with my own eyes. my standards are very high, as you will understand from viewing the photos of the two girls i referenced and provided links for in my very first post (amelia and gloria in london) to see what i consider to be a 9 or 10. i also have attached to this report some playmates whom i believe adequately illustrate what i would consider a 9 or a 10. the 9's and 10's at rio that i have been with include girls like taya. taya has a great body and is as facially pretty as cover girl christie brinkley or model / actress cheryl ladd (of charlie's angels television series) were in their prime. or there is rosa who also has a great body and a face pretty like a princess. don't only take my word for rosa's good looks, see above quote from jet setr. there was also margarita a tall modelesque brunette who i didn't get a chance to speak with because she was so busy, and also the mucho caliente gloria whose hotness and service were reported by tango9001, and i agree with him that she is very hot and at least a 9. and there was yanna and quite a number of others. therefore, dear reader, i suggest that when you read sour grapes reports by some on this thread, if you have any doubts if there are 9's and 10's at rio, you should go into the club and see for yourself.)

nightclubs / bars: the problem here is that i have not found the locations where there are significant numbers of really hot wg's like there were at the river palace and seen the hotties in the nightclubs with my own eyes. the clubs i tried, avalon and buddha bar, did not have a significant wg presence when i visited. it could be because i went to buddha bar from 9 to 11:30pm and it was too early. anyways that's why i shifted my focus to the strip clubs. but based on the reports by others in this thread, it seems that there are lots of wg's at buddha bar and clubs like d'lux and the prices would be similar to what independent girls were asking in the river palace, which are: for the really pretty girls rates of $400 for 2 hours or $300 for 2 hours, and less pretty girls were asking $200 for 2 hours. however, it has been recently reported that $200 for 1 hour is now a standard asking price at clubs. this thread needs more reporting on this topic of wg's in the clubs and their looks and prices. much depended on the monger's negotiating skills and on the time of night as to whether you would be successful in getting the price down from the initial asking price significantly.

nevertheless the rates at the nightclubs were usually higher per hour than the strip club rates. the only exception was with the more average looking girls that you could get for $200 for 2 hours, which although it was the same $100 per hour net rate as the rio strip club, nevertheless was a smaller total cash outlay of $200 as opposed to the $300 minimum at the strip club, and 2 hours is a sufficient time period even for a relaxed unrushed session. for this reason, since i was trying to get the 9's and 10's, i felt the strip club would be the less expensive route to take because such 9 or 10 type girls in the nightclubs would surely be asking $400 or $500 for two hours, which is a higher net rate and cumulative rate than rio strip club. barring some other trailblazer doing significant investigation and reporting, i guess the only way for me to crack this nut of the nightclub scene, is for me to get out there and do it myself the next time i'm in kiev.

internet girls: www.mamba.ru and www.top-modals.com were two of the most favored venues for guys on this thread to get girls with prices of 800 uah ($100 usd) down to 600 uah ($75) or maybe even lower. in the past years there were still some girls using true pictures, but it seems that is a thing of the past. now the pictures are fake and you're mostly dealing with agencies. the girls who come to your door are mostly average or below that, but on rare occasions a pretty girl comes and you are lucky. at this point i don't see the advantage of mamba and top-modals over any other website as they are all bait and switch agencies, it seems. there is a lot of time wasting using this method, but during the daytime, maybe it's worth trying. if you come up lucky with a beauty at a cheap rate, you are all set.

there are two exceptions to the fake pictures websites that i am aware of, gia and vodka. here are their links:

gia http://gia-escort.com/escorts

vodka http://www.vodkaescort.com/gallery.php

i have not used gia as i felt their rates per hour were too high and the looks of their girls didn't impress me and reach the level of the 9's and 10's i wanted to meet.

i have met with two of the models from vodka for $300 for three hours (julia and inna). since it was the same rate as the rio strip club rate, i decided to give it a try. the photos of julia and inna appeared to me to be true pictures, however, very photoshopped. in the flesh, both girls were slim and sexy, but not as glitzy perfect as the photos. inna's photos in particular really impressed me, but in person dressed for every day, she is not as modelesque perfect, but she is damn sexy little girl, very educated and nice. it was a gfe with both girls. no guarantees regarding their other girls, but i am reporting what i know from personal experience.

to be noted also is that vodka has started a sister operation in the dominican republic based in punta cana which you can check out at www.caribescort.com. for those of you who live closer to dominican republic this is a chance to meet girls from kiev without traveling all the way there.

girl apartments: there are many apartments with girls in kiev. this is where local ukrainian guys go to have their fun. there has been virtually no reporting of significance on this forum giving details about addresses, prices, services etc. for the girls in these apartments. one way to find these venues is to find a taxi driver in downtown kiev who can take you there. i would recommend that if you don't speak russian, that you prepare a list of prices and questions about services you may want to ask in yes or no format using an online language translator such as http://translate.google.com. this way you can simply point to a question on your list and she will read it and respond either yes or no (the means 'yes', and nyet means 'no') , or point to a price or numbers on your sheet so you can know how much money to pay even if you can't understand the amount when they speak it in russian. you should also be mindful of security issues in going to an apartment. you might ask the taxi driver if he would wait at the apartment while you are there and agree on a fee for his services as a tour guide for a period of hours in advance. probably it would be a good idea to go with a wingman or several wingmen until an apartment is verified as a legitimate establishment to your satisfaction. better yet is to inquire if the girl can come with you to your apartment.

street action: this topic has some reports attesting to the possibilities of meeting girls on the street and getting them to agree to sex for money, or attesting to the possibility of freebies. but there is little reporting of significance that gives information that might guide the reader who never tried propositioning girls in the street in how to do this, where to do this best, how to approach, how to avoid an embarrassing situation of propositioning a girl who is not a wg, what to say, how to lead the conversation, how to get the girl into your apartment, how to get things to the next level, how to make the first sexual move, or anything that could help others get a better idea on how to do this. i encourage all those who have succeeded at doing this to write in detail about their successes by including details addressing these questions. but currently, there is no body of knowledge based on success and experience that has been written about on the forum giving advice to help those wanting to try this. so basically each monger is left to his own devices to try his luck at picking up young girls on the street that he may use when he is home or may have used at one point in his life. of encouragement are the reports by those mongers who say they have succeeded at this. based on that, i guess we can know it's possible.

happy travels.

lj

Fox7717
06-03-11, 09:46
[QUOTE=Liljoey; 1162052]Dear Insomniaque.

CHANCES OF GFE.

WHAT DOES A 9 OR A 10 LOOK LIKE? : In order to avoid further confusion on this issue, I am attaching hereto pictures of girls who I think could qualify as beauties to be rated as 9's or 10's. These are not Kiev girls, but rather home grown USA beauties that I am presenting here both for your entertainment and to illustrate what I am referring to when I say a girl is a 9 or a 10. Needless to say, you will NOT find hundreds of girls looking as good as these on the streets of Kiev willing to have sex with you for $60. However, there are some girls approaching or at this level at Rio, and some of them are available for sex for $300. I hope you guys out there get it now.

151808

151809

151810

151811

151812

151813

151814

liljoey...

I agree girls in the photos are 9. 10 by most blokes standards but remember they have been photo shopped too!

I have been on ISG several years and my thoughts are simply, why the endless debate about prices? If a $100 either way is so critical, should you even bother when overall it's cheaper to stay at home? Some members almost make it sound like the girls should be paying them! I know it's personal choice and some will be happy with a $50 SW but personally, I want a 10 type GFE to blow my socks off, otherwise it's not worth all the hassle. I also agree, what I would call a 10 and what some members call a 10 are VERY different. Trust me, I have found some unbelievable girls. Just perfect and so who cares about paying $100 'over the odds.' Life's too short. It's a shame but none have let me take a photo to post on ISG and prove it. (One was a trainee weather girl on TV and so hardly surprising!) Incidentally, many of the best 9-10's now work in London or elsewhere, as they can earn 2-3x the money and so it is cheaper overall to stay at home now when you weigh up the flight and hotel costs etc and so personally I do both, as a visit to Kiev is always fun. In my experience there is no difference between a 10 and say a 5-7 as both can be either great or bolshy cows with attitude issues, it's all down to some luck and experience at interview. One of the best ever was a blonde babe in Budapest who fucked me senseless but was just so nice and a real GFE to remember.. just wish I still had her number!

Fox7717
06-03-11, 10:08
Do you report this girl as genuine based upon personal knowledge?

Be advised that this same girl is advertised as available in Kiev for 100 Euro! Take a look at the following link.

http://escort-models.com/en/girls/escort-independent/ukraine/olesja_2167.html

Sorry to burst your bubble, but obviously this is a bait and switch photo either in Kiev or in London or, more likely, in both.

I would be happy to be corrected by you and you to report that you met this girl personally in London and she appears as advertised, since London is one of my playgrounds. So please let us know if you actually met her, or did you just read a review and accept it as true.

LJMany thanks liljoey and posting my comment and photo has done exactly what I hoped for and turned up an escort listing in Kiev. Local knowledge is everything! I have no idea if this girl is for real, but many listed in London are (from personal experience.) These photos look too good to be true and you know what they say about that, but if genuine and no attitude issues, the 200 quid an hour would not bother me personally. A bargain in fact.

Incidentally, regarding 'bait & switch' this has only happened to me a couple of times, but as ever the outcome remains unpredictable. Once in Budapest, the girl in the photo 'Christina' turned up and was simply mind blowing, yet I read on ISG later that loads of blokes either could not get her, as she was never available or were bait & switched to something ordinary. Luck plays a part as ever. I will do some more research on this blonde.....

Stevie69
06-03-11, 10:51
We men are peculiar. We like to argue about irrelevant things. Nevertheless, the photos clarified the difference of opinion. People just like different things. Here are 2 girls of the type that we are discussing, one typifies the hard core professional that can be found at Rio, and the other the 20 year old student that can be found elsewhere. One of them will cost $300-500, and maybe rightly so. Her dress, boots, hair, nails and make up probably costed her over $1000, so she must recover her costs somehow. Yes, and there is a fantasy component to having sex with someone like that. The other can be had for $100. Her whole outfit cost less than $50. The smile is for free. She is sweet, young and fresh. There is different fantasy component to having sex with someone like that.

LilJoey
06-03-11, 18:59
I have no idea if this girl is for real, but many listed in London are (from personal experience.)Dear Fox7717.

If you look at the picture of Amelia I included a link for in my last post regarding what a 9 or 10 looks like you will see a girl who I met in London who is real. I gave the link to her agency website in my very first post on this thread. So I know from personal experience that in London many of the girls advertised on www.londonescortguide.com Are for real, although photoshopped. I also know from personal experience that in London many of those photos are not real. So it is something that must be investigated and assumptions should not be made. More than likely someone from a bait and switch agency in Kiev liked the photos of your girl and simply stole them and put them on the Kiev agency website.

This is common practice. I often laugh when I see the same pictures I am familiar with from londonescortguide. Com or many websites for Kiev agencies showing up on numerous high end agency websites for escorts in New York. I'm quite sure the girl cannot simultaneously be available both in New York, London and Kiev at the same time, and that these agencies in NY which are trying to charge upwards of $800. $1500 per HOUR for their girls and using many photos from londonescortguide agencies are simply bait and switch liars too.

If you are in London, perhaps you will give your fantasy girl a try and let us know if she's a real girl worth fantasizing about.

LJ

Fox7717
06-03-11, 19:24
Dear Fox7717.

If you look at the picture of Amelia I included a link for in my last post regarding what a 9 or 10 looks like you will see a girl who I met in London who is real. I gave the link to her agency website in my very first post on this thread. So I know from personal experience that in London many of the girls advertised on.

www.londonescortguide.com

Are for real, although photoshopped. I also know from personal experience that in London many of those photos are not real. So it is something that must be investigated and assumptions should not be made. More than likely someone from a bait and switch agency in Kiev liked the photos of your girl and simply stole them and put them on the Kiev agency website.

This is common practice. I often laugh when I see the same pictures I am familiar with from londonescortguide. Com or many websites for Kiev agencies showing up on numerous high end agency websites for escorts in New York. I'm quite sure the girl cannot simultaneously be available both in New York, London and Kiev at the same time, and that these agencies in NY which are trying to charge upwards of $800. $1500 per HOUR for their girls and using many photos from londonescortguide agencies are simply bait and switch liars too.

If you are in London, perhaps you will give your fantasy girl a try and let us know if she's a real girl worth fantasizing about.

LJAgreed.

I know there are many fakes in the London scene just like there are anywhere. Searched 'Amelia' and there are 7 listed so don't know which one you meant? All look great, but no doubt varying levels of photoshop. Londonescortsguide in general has some amazing women listed. Just need to identify the genuine ones LOL

Fox7717
06-03-11, 19:57
We men are peculiar. We like to argue about irrelevant things. Nevertheless, the photos clarified the difference of opinion. People just like different things. Here are 2 girls of the type that we are discussing, one typifies the hard core professional that can be found at Rio, and the other the 20 year old student that can be found elsewhere. One of them will cost $300-500, and maybe rightly so. Her dress, boots, hair, nails and make up probably costed her over $1000, so she must recover her costs somehow. Yes, and there is a fantasy component to having sex with someone like that. The other can be had for $100. Her whole outfit cost less than $50. The smile is for free. She is sweet, young and fresh. There is different fantasy component to having sex with someone like that.Hardcore regardless of looks is not the ideal and personally, I prefer the student example that is sweet, young and fresh!

LilJoey
06-03-11, 20:12
We men are peculiar. We like to argue about irrelevant things. Nevertheless, the photos clarified the difference of opinion. People just like different things. Here are 2 girls of the type that we are discussing, one typifies the hard core professional that can be found at Rio, and the other the 20 year old student that can be found elsewhere. One of them will cost $300-500, and maybe rightly so. Her dress, boots, hair, nails and make up probably costed her over $1000, so she must recover her costs somehow. Yes, and there is a fantasy component to having sex with someone like that. The other can be had for $100. Her whole outfit cost less than $50. The smile is for free. She is sweet, young and fresh. There is different fantasy component to having sex with someone like that.Dear Stevie69.

Now we are communicating. So we can nail this down better, here is how I react to the photos you provided. I really liked the photos of the you girl labeled "Sweetie (1)" and "Sweetie (2)". Her face is so fresh and pretty and is the face of a 9, but since she is sideways in the pics I'm not sure about her body, as although she has beautiful tits, she looks like she has slender boyish hips / thighs and not so much of the wide hips and womanly curves that add to the great sexiness of eastern european women. Nevertheless, Sweetie is at least between an 8 and a 9. On the other hand the pics labeled "Sophie Turner" show a very glitzy woman, whose face I do not find appealing, but who has a sexy ass / hips / legs ensemble, and an obviously surgically enhanced chest. Her body is good but for some reason I find her face off-putting, so I would give her an 8. If both were available, based purely on looks, I would pass on Sophie Turner and would be trying to get into your Sweetie's pants instead, as she has more appeal despite her slender hips.

Now I realize that Sweetie, who is standing buck naked on what appears to be a public street, is obviously taking a model photograph. So I would think that she is a professional model and not just some cute young kid one might bump into on the Kiev street.

Just so I understand you, are you claiming that you actually met this girl you labeled "Sweetie" and that you had sex with this actual girl for under $100, and that it was you who posed her naked for a photo on the street, after you ravished her all night? If so, you will be my guru and henceforth I would only like to hang out with you when I am in Kiev and to go storm the streets with you looking for beauties like her, because she is obviously awesome.

However, if you acknowledge that the pics of Sweetie are photos of a model and that you merely attached them as a sample photo to illustrate what you think the girls all over the streets of Kiev look like that easily have sex for under $100, then I would be a little more skeptical. That's not to say that I haven't seen girls as pretty as Sweetie on the streets of Kiev, but my skepticism would be directed at your premise that it is easy to have sex with such girls for under $100.

So then to establish the matter properly, I would ask you to post some pictures of the many beautiful girls you must have taken from the streets by now, since according to what you are writing, there are hundreds of these beauties looking like Sweetie littering the streets of Kiev and it is easily accomplished to have sex with them for under $100. So you must have accomplished this many times and no doubt have pictures too. I did not say $60 because I did not want to make this task too hard for you to prove, and I will be happy if you are able to teach me that this is possible even for $100. I'm sure the entire forum will be grateful to you for pointing the way to low cost sexual bliss in Kiev for us. If the street girls you had for $100 or less look as good as Sweetie, I will be the first to acknowledge the correctness of your words that the streets are a far better venue than either nightclubs or strip clubs.

In this way your pictures will be worth not just a thousand words, but thousands of dollars that your brother mongers would have wasted in nightclubs and strip clubs.

So please lead us to the promised land of pussy on the streets of Kiev.

LJ

Fox7717
06-03-11, 20:15
Dear Fox7717.

If you look at the picture of Amelia I included a link for in my last post regarding what a 9 or 10 looks like you will see a girl who I met in London who is real. I gave the link to her agency website in my very first post on this thread. So I know from personal experience that in London many of the girls advertised on.

www.londonescortguide.com

Are for real, although photoshopped. I also know from personal experience that in London many of those photos are not real. So it is something that must be investigated and assumptions should not be made. More than likely someone from a bait and switch agency in Kiev liked the photos of your girl and simply stole them and put them on the Kiev agency website.

This is common practice. I often laugh when I see the same pictures I am familiar with from londonescortguide. Com or many websites for Kiev agencies showing up on numerous high end agency websites for escorts in New York. I'm quite sure the girl cannot simultaneously be available both in New York, London and Kiev at the same time, and that these agencies in NY which are trying to charge upwards of $800. $1500 per HOUR for their girls and using many photos from londonescortguide agencies are simply bait and switch liars too.

If you are in London, perhaps you will give your fantasy girl a try and let us know if she's a real girl worth fantasizing about.

LJThink I might have found the 'Amelia' which you mentioned? (She actually has 3 or 4 similar listings on that website) If so, that's what I call a 10 and still so fresh. If I am correct... Was it a good experience and recommended? (200 quid an hour is a steal)

LilJoey
06-03-11, 20:17
Agreed.

I know there are many fakes in the London scene just like there are anywhere. Searched 'Amelia' and there are 7 listed so don't know which one you meant? All look great, but no doubt varying levels of photoshop. Londonescortsguide in general has some amazing women listed. Just need to identify the genuine ones LOLAmelia's link is in my very first post which you can get to easily by clicking on my profile and selecting the link for all my posts and going back to the beginning. Her picture was attached to my recent post too. You should have no problem locating the various agency websites she lists herself with. However, if she is back home in Poland visiting her family, perhaps the websites take her picture down temporarily because she is not available and you will have to wait until she returns.

LilJoey
06-03-11, 20:25
Think I might have found the 'Amelia' which you mentioned? (She actually has 3 or 4 similar listings) If so, that's what I call a 10 and still fresh. If I am correct... Was it a good experience and recommended?Yes that's her, and she was delicious, literally. But let's stop going on about Amelia in the Kiev thread before someone comes down on us. PM me if you hook up with your original fantasy girl when you are in London, as I would like to know if she is real and what her agency link is. Thanks.

Member #4243
06-03-11, 21:36
Hi I would be grateful if someone could have a look at my recent post and give me some responses to the issues I raised. I am new to this forum and pushing hard to organise a trip to Kiev this summer. All help appreciated.

Mohab

ErickMorsa
06-04-11, 00:09
Hi I would be grateful if someone could have a look at my recent post and give me some responses to the issues I raised. I am new to this forum and pushing hard to organise a trip to Kiev this summer. All help appreciated.

MohabLook in the past I have contracted one girl, let me explain to you this is not the real girl allmost in this webpage all are fake, but, the agency send to me a pretty nice girl more or less she speaks good english, this is the link http://escort-models.com/en/girls/escort-agency/kiev/anzhelochka_626.html Again the girl is not of the photo I send it too you because of the telephon of the agency, you can speak clearly to the woman who answers, at first time she will try to speak like she is the lady of pics, you can say clear to her, look a friend recomend to me your agency or something like this, and then you ask for nice girl with english, usually they have girls from other towns not from Kiev, but she send to me good looking girl. 19 yo, price for 5 hours was $300 USD, we went to have dinner, to buy some wiskey, and then we finished in the aprtment, really good girl talk and sex was cool, I asked for her another two times, thats my advice, I asked for anther agency another time but I didn't have good look like with this one, hope telephone is the same now, try to save telephone because last time I went to Kiev this webpage was not displayed liek is forbiden in Ucrain, I don't know why I will be in Kiev from 22 of June to 18 of August, if someone wants to hang out send email gamalielliketeens@gmail.com Ok and we can organize something I have more or less expirience there and speak a little Russian, Ok if somebody have good recomendation please don't be greddy!

FamaIt
06-04-11, 04:10
Since a lot of forum members have recently posted about their sexual experiences, I would focus more on other information such as logistics etc and this would be less focused on sex (this may have to do with the fact that I did not get to shag a lot of chicks over there). If you have already been to Ukraine then this would not be of interest to you except for the last section.

Arriving & Taxi Service

If you are arriving international, you would arrive at Borispol International Airport. It is roughly 45km from city centre so if you plan to get a can, be prepared to pay between 200UAH to 400UAH depending on your negotiation skills.

I called a private pickup service from one of the apartment services (although I had booked my stay at a hotel) and a person was standing there with my name on it. Total cost: 250UAH. Pretty decent if you ask me. Specially for someone new to Ukraine, I would prefer this.

Money changing

Your milage may vary with regards to money changing. The best rates I found was from UKR EXIM Bank which is also located at the airport. Their location is somewhat hidden so it is difficult to find them. Once you leave the gate and go to visitor section, you would see Hertz Rent a Car on your side. Go towards Hertz then keep on going till you reach the end corner of the airport. The exchange would be over there. Since it is official bank branch, the rates are the same as you would get anywhere.

USD, GBP and EUR are accepted at almost every money changer so if you have those currency, you do not need to worry much. However, if you are from some other country and have the local currency, the best part is UKR EXIM Bank accepts those currency also. A full list of currency and their rates could be found at:

http://www.eximb.com/ukr/personal/everyday/currency_exchange/?f=personal

If your currency is there, it is cheaper to buy UAH directly as opposed to convert from say CAD USD UAH. You would pay double conversion charges for no use.

Also, some currency changers in your home country would offer to order UAH for you. This is a bad idea as the rates are quite bad. I did not had the time to go and change in Canada so I saved myself from making that mistake.

Also, what I have seen is that the spread of buy and sell is not too much so err in the side of caution and convert more than you think you may require. I had to spend 150 UAH to go to a UKR EXIM Branch to convert more as I thought I would run out of currency. Any losses you would have to reconvert back to your home currency would be lower than that amount. Again, specifically for one of the non-common currency.

Hotel vs Apartment

Since it would've been my first trip to Ukraine and being a visible minority, I did not want to risk going to a hotel and get robbed or experience one of those horror stories. However, staying for 2 days in Kiev I realize (like everywhere else that those stories are hyped up).

Apartment would provide better privacy and even better setting for your needs (double bed, sofa, chair, table etc. You get the drift).

On the other hand, hotel was also completely safe. I stayed at Hotel Rus and staff spoke decent English. Even the bell boys could easily communicate in English with basic phrases. Although, asking them where to find girls or if they can arrange one did not comprehend.

As another forum member had suggested, you would have to bribe the 'security' at Hotel to take a girl upstairs. The security is a guy randomly standing near the elevators at night time. It is possible that he may not be there by the time your girl comes in which case just go up. If he is there, he would argue. Just hand him 100 UAH and you are set to go. No further questions asked. Since I had a double room, I tried convincing the security that she was the second person but you had to register them at the reception and just paying 100 UAH was much better.

Like I said before, it is also possible the security would not be there to stop you and you can just walk. Also, surprisingly, what I saw was that the 'problem' arises only at the time of entering the elevator area. Once you are in there, if a security comes, he would not ask any question. This was experienced by me with my second girl I would mention below.

All in all, the hotel was good but I would go for an apartment next time.

Taxi Service

Nearly half of taxi drivers could understand basic English (Buddha Bar, Airport, How Much, I paid 40 when I came here etc) so that is good. I would've said nearly all because I usually carried the address location transliterated (as I don't know Cryillic) and it helped. However, there were some problems in communicating 'Independence Square' or Meidan to 3 or 4 taxi drivers before someone understood.

In each case, appear confident and negotiate. You have no idea how much you can haggle till you try.

Tourist Scam

This is just in interest of the community. A couple of posts down, I read the story about how someone found a ziplock bag of dollars, euro etc and its apparent owner came. The same thing happened to me the first day.

I was going to Mandarin Mall to buy a cell phone at around 9pm ish. I had asked the concierge and she had given me a map which I was looking at to see if I was going in the right direction. Out of the blue, a guy with a map in his hand came and asked something (most likely in Russian) and I said sorry English only. He tried to ask me something in English when he 'saw' a bag of money on the floor. This money was not there till he bent down to pick it up. So, it rang alarm bells and I said I have no idea and continued walking. At hindsight, I even wondered why would a legitimate tourist ask another tourist for directions (after all, that another tourist was also lost).

So, moral of the story be careful. A shout out to the person who wrote the story before and people who commented on it. You guys have perhaps saved me from couple of hundred bucks or an argument at a minimum.

Mobile Phone

Mobile Phone is dirt cheap. For 30UAH, you can get a new connection with 10UAH balance. I bought another 25UAH card and even with my couple of international messaging, I was left with 11UAH.

Everyone should get a mobile as soon as possible. Specially for contacting Mamba girls and to get the 'real status' over there. Useful to find non-agency girls.

The Sex

Unforunately I was just there for 48 hours so my chances were limited. Specially combined with the official purposes I was here for too.

Day 1

I had made some contacts with apparent semi-pro girls over Mamba before coming here and had a couple of good leads.

When I started calling them, it became apparent they were with agency. Specially when they asked which girl I was talking with. With couple of failed leads, I finally agreed with one agency to send the girl on Mamba on the condition that it was the same girl. Otherwise no deal. They said it is the same girl but she has just dyed her hair brown. I insisted that I don't care about the hair colour as long as the girl is the same (I was getting frustrated at my lack of progress and it was midnight already and I was working for 2 hours or so with an hour long dinner break in between). They said don't worry and you will be satisfied.

Lo and behold when she came, the girl was (no surprise) not the same one. But, she was hot. Not supermodel hot but hot nonetheless. Nice face, nice eyes, nice body, nice ass, small boobs (only negative). Perhaps a 7 or a 6. 5 to be harsh. There was another blond girl in the taxi but after seeing the brunette, I knew I did not had to change.

She spoke GOOD English. We talked for a while, she had a beer and so did I (a mistake though) and did what we were supposed to do. Memo to self: Don't drink too much alcohol. She stayed around 20 minutes extra over the hour and offered a freebie when she was going to return back to Kiev on Friday. She gave me her personal number. Is this what usually happens or not?

She left at around 2:30am and I decided to try to sleep. Since I was jetlagged, I couldn't sleep at at 4am I decided to go to the second floor bar and see the WG who generously offered 200 EUROS per hour (yes no typo) and offer her from 700 to 1000UAH if she was still there. As luck would have it she was not there (none of the 3 or 4 girls I saw were there) and I left empty-handed.

Day 2

Woke up at 2pm (such a nice way to spend time) and tried to reconfirm with one of private girl I had contacted on Skype before to meet at 5pm (I had to go change some currency). We had agreed on 1500UAH for 2. 3 hours with BBBJ and Anal. Wasn't interested in anal but nice to have an option. She said she would only do those for over night and since I wanted to check out Rio club, I told her I would not pay 3000UAH for her to spend the night without even seeing her.

The other girl I contacted was not online so I tried to find some other girl who was online. All were agency so I rolled the dice and called one of them. Their 20 minute lasted almost 3 hours and when the girl arrived, she was not even close to the one that was described. Reading the post here, I had become aware that the girls are hardly the same but this was extreme. A bit chubby, black hair, short height, good boobs though. A 5 or 5. 5 to be generous. I wanted to just pay her for the cab and make her go but I wanted to see how the girl who had made me wait 3 hours turns out to be. Plus, she was cheaper and I did not see a security guard nearby so I thought what the hell. I was planning on going to Rio afterwards so figured I might as well get the hose drained first.

The sex was good. She gave a good blowjob (with condom unfortunately) and could deep throat easily. I made her leave quickly because I wanted to get ready for the club.

Around midnight, I leave for Rio which was a 10 minute taxi ride from the hotel. It was jam packed and I could find a seat at the bar on 2nd floor (the one with 2 poles).15 minutes after ordering my hookah and beer, I went to the person, shook his hand with 100UAH and asked if something can be done before the sheesha arrived. He said there is a spot in the basement so go there and he would call. Arrived there a second too late and the booth was already given. Waited 10 minutes (the people at basement can not speak good english so didn't knew whether they were trying to find a seat for me or were asking me to leave) and went upstairs again. I saw the guy again and he promised as soon as something opens up, I would get the booth. Within 30 seconds of my sitting down, he said he has a booth for me at the back. The booth was good but the fact that it was at the back meant that there was little to no eye contact with the dancers.

I am not too sure whether the dancers were always like this is because it was getting too late but they all seemed exhausted. I would incline on giving them benefit of the doubt that since it was almost 2am by that time, they were just too tired. Got my first private dance from a girl who was, without a doubt, an Ice Queen. No touching in pussy, no kissing nothing. I got angry (or frustrated) and she sensed it and in the second dance was more forthcoming, but still a bad experience. The girl was a 7. 5 though.

The second dance, after another 30 minutes was much better. She was more enthusiastic but seemed tired and I could tell by her movements. The girl a 8 or 8. 5 was blonde with short hair.

After this dance, I waited a while to get a dance from the girl I had seen when I was at the bar (Rihana was her name I guess) but she never came back. At this time, neither were there any girls which made me think I should go for a private dance and again, they seemed to tired I thought it would not be worth 200UAH to waste again. I figured that since the club opens at 4pm, I would come again before my flight when the girls are fresh. When leaving I found out that it opens at 8pm so the plan went to waste.

However, just to clarify and confirm the suspicions, the girls in Rio were obviously hot. Not more than the regular girls walking down the street but not less either. Specially given their selection, they ranged from 7 to 10. Again, since I arrived late, the pickings were slim.

Day 3

Since I had some work to do, decided to finish those and visit the people I came here to see so was pretty uneventful. I wanted to visit one of the girls in their apartment as I had already check out of my hotel but I was running late and did not wanted to miss my flight so figured perhaps next time.

All in all, a good experience. However. 2 days is way too short. Someone should plan for at least 4. 5 days to get the full benefit.

Member #4243
06-04-11, 06:17
Thanks for attempting to get back to me on some of the points I raised. I think you did misunderstand me as I clearly stated I do not like internet, agency, mamba type bookings and always prefer to see the girls first in real life in a place such as Rio's. My original post is dated 2nd June and again if experienced Kiev members can have a look at those points and give me some feedback that would be great.

Thanks,

Mohab

KievGuy
06-04-11, 11:18
AAARGH! I just lost a long post because "I wasn't logged in"! Crap! Oh well, here it is again:

PLEASE lend me your experience. I have a lot of questions and just don't want to be ripped off or disappointed. Here is my situation:

I live one block off K Street and will be here on business for months. I'm working on my Russian but that will take some time. I'm English only for now. I can spend maybe $1500 a month on this comfortably, so I have to make my money count!

Here's my questions:

Where to find girls? You all seem to like clubs. I don't, but I'll go there if that's the best place to troll for girls. Is the consensus here that is where you will find the best girls and the best sex? How about just finding a reliable cab driver? Or (my preference) a web site like Mamba? Is Mamba the best website? Last, what about Escort services? Which one is best? I'm looking for advantages / disadvantages here.

Where to do it? I'd prefer my apartment, but is that wise? She could bring her friends to rip me off. Is security an issue? How about of she spends the night with me? Some of you have done this and I guess you weren't ripped off. Is it a good idea, though?

What? I like oral to completion (swallowing). Is that hard to find? Can I ask for it up front, or is considered rude? What is the best way to ask? How much should it cost?

When? Is it cheaper on weekdays? How about during the day? Some of the escort services seem to drop prices in the day.

How long? Is one hour not enough? Obviously the longer the better but let's be honest I'm not going to fall in love. Yet I don't want to feel rushed. You all seem to think 1. 5 hours is minimum. When does the clock start? DO you say when she walks in your room, OK, it's 1AM, my time starts now?

How much? I asked before, but someone posted don't pay until service is rendered. I agree, but do girls object to this? Is it customary?

Thanks for any advice in advance. I will reciprocate when I get some experience of my own. I will be calling a girl from Mamba today who says she will swallow for $100 unless I hear someone give me the red flag here.

=============================================

Compose Long Reports in Word Processor

Greetings Gentlemen,

I strongly suggest to everyone who is writing a long report that they write it in a word processing program first, then proofread and spell check, then save it as file on their computer, [you[AND[/u] THEN Copy and paste it into the forum.

With this method, there is no danger of losing your work, and besides, it's easier to write in a real word procession program first. Even if you're in an Internet Cafe computer with no word processing program installed, you can always use Notepad or WordPad.

Thanks,

JacksonSorry about the double post, everyone, and yes good advice on the WP!

KievGuy
06-04-11, 11:44
You can find them anywhere. K street has plenty of good stores. Shoes, clothes, you can go in there and try to talk to many different girls. Results will vary but you can get some freebies that way. I haven't been to Kiev for two years but I doubt that the stores have changed much. Most of them have female sales associates. Try Globus, high end perfume stores.

Mamba is the most popular website. Personally I don't like it because of fake pictures. Many profiles are not genuine. I prefer to meet girls in real life (clubs, on the street, stores etc.) But it doesn't mean that you cannot try. Just be careful and don't be afraid to send girls home if someone else has arrived to your place (not the girl in the picture).

Most of mongers who invited girls to their apartments have stayed in Kiev for a few days / weeks. It was a rental apartment. Your situation will be different? Again be careful and use your own judgement.

It all depends. Could be free, could be $300. It depends how much you are willing to pay. Of course if you're fluent in Russian, you will have a better chance to score some freebies. Some girls would get upset if you ask upfront, some would be ok. Again it all depends on each particular situation.Thanks for your advice, C12. I have not had what I would call a "freebie" here. A girl spent a few nights with me total, I took her to dinner several times, generally showed her a good time, and had sex 5-6 times over a two week period. By you guy's standards, she was about a 5-6, I guess. Cute face, thin, but small tits, and on the short side. But at the end of the two weeks she said she needed 2000 grivna for dental work. I gave it to her knowing it was bs but reasoned that the price only worked out (including all other entertainment costs) to about $$500USD at most, or about $80-100 each time.

I do not know any Russian. I'm working on it!

I have generally afternoons and mornings free and I'll be here as I said 6 months. Any advice on best places to go at those times? Maybe to see the sales clerks?

Last, I am 54 and wonder if young women here are repulsed by the idea of me hitting on them. I know that things in Europe are different than the US but also don't want to make a boor of myself. What is the acceptable age differential for non paid transactions?

ErickMorsa
06-04-11, 19:37
Thanks for attempting to get back to me on some of the points I raised. I think you did misunderstand me as I clearly stated I do not like internet, agency, mamba type bookings and always prefer to see the girls first in real life in a place such as Rio's. My original post is dated 2nd June and again if experienced Kiev members can have a look at those points and give me some feedback that would be great.

Thanks,

MohabOk, look, for sure places like Rio, or Buda bar, etc, you will find stuning girls there, as it was said could be till $400 USD, if you like more real contact with normal girls students etc, it is very posible and ofcourse could take more effort, cause is not like very easy to find girls speaking english, but I will recomend to visit some clubs that usually you can see there Ucrainians and Russians, for meet this kind of girls no escorts, near Kreshatik you can go to ART 44 CLUB, is a rock club usually bands with original music from Bielorusia, Ucrain etc, adress Address: 44b, Khreschatik Street, Kyiv. 01001, Ukraine. Nearest metro stop: Khreschatik (red line) , its inside a corridor. The other one is more or less same type, you can find good bands of cover rock music, american etc. Is DOCKERS PUB Address: 25, Bogatyrs'ka Street, Obolon District, Kyiv, Ukraine. Nearest metro stop: Geroyiv Dnipra (blue line) this one is in the arch of LG's publicity. In Kreshatik, Other one I recomend to go is CARIBEAN CLUB, salsa music, lots of girls if you know how to dance salsa girls will be fun to dance and you can score there also, be aware need to be unstopable because you can find a girl who begins talking and then she will say, yes $200 USD, that happens, but drop them and find another one, my other recomendation is not to stay in touristic places only, there are other places like shoping malls, like Bolchevik Plaza, better to go ther in weekend fridays, will be full of people you can score there also, the real thing is. At last in my opinion and expirience, is in Kreshatik you will se a lots of nic egirls, but the ones who usually stay looking at you with no shame, is because they are looking for something like escorts etc, you can sit in a bench there andjust watch people walking for sure in 10 or 15 minutes some girl will sit behind you or infront of you trying to make eye contact, if you have the time don't hesitate to say Hi or something to theme, but never tell them you are going just for few days, tell something like you are working there or studying, that is better way to make more advances, other point is don't be shy Ucrainian arenot shy with womans, also don't be rude, womans apreciate this there, I don't know if this things can help you in something! Have good trip!

AZN Monger
06-04-11, 20:15
Last, I am 54 and wonder if young women here are repulsed by the idea of me hitting on them. I know that things in Europe are different than the US but also don't want to make a boor of myself. What is the acceptable age differential for non paid transactions?For non-paid transactions, I wouldn't go lower than 40. Women prefer to date and interact with men a little bit older than them, but most people have an age limit. Although things are more acceptable in Europe, it's not THAT different.

Curious12
06-05-11, 06:25
Thanks for your advice, C12.No problem.


I do not know any Russian. I'm working on it!Eventually you will learn some useful phrases, we all started from scratch.


I have generally afternoons and mornings free and I'll be here as I said 6 months. Any advice on best places to go at those times? Maybe to see the sales clerks?Mornings and afternoons would be the best time for that. Just walk around Kreshatik and you will find plenty of stores. Zara Kreshatik 23, Savage #21, Oggi #13, Louis Vuitton #15. Actually there are so many stores / little cafes in that Passage area (building #15 on K street). Also check underground shopping malls near big market (located just across from Arena City) and Globus (Independance Square). Most of those girls will agree to a restaurant / movie date and then it's up to you.


Last, I am 54 and wonder if young women here are repulsed by the idea of me hitting on them. I know that things in Europe are different than the US but also don't want to make a boor of myself. What is the acceptable age differential for non paid transactions?Don't hit on 18 year old. But 30-35 should be ok. Ukrainian girls pay attention to the way you are dressed, they look at your shoes, pants, shirt, they check how expensive is your cell phone. They always want to show off. And if they see someone who is in their opinion rich and has a lot of $$$, they will definitely be interested to go out with that person.

KievGuy
06-05-11, 10:05
No problem.

Eventually you will learn some useful phrases, we all started from scratch.

Mornings and afternoons would be the best time for that. Just walk around Kreshatik and you will find plenty of stores. Zara Kreshatik 23, Savage #21, Oggi #13, Louis Vuitton #15. Actually there are so many stores / little cafes in that Passage area (building #15 on K street). Also check underground shopping malls near big market (located just across from Arena City) and Globus (Independance Square). Most of those girls will agree to a restaurant / movie date and then it's up to you.

Don't hit on 18 year old. But 30-35 should be ok. Ukrainian girls pay attention to the way you are dressed, they look at your shoes, pants, shirt, they check how expensive is your cell phone. They always want to show off. And if they see someone who is in their opinion rich and has a lot of $$$, they will definitely be interested to go out with that person. OK, thanks again! I'll try some of the shops in those areas. That might especially make sense because I'm guessing a higher percentage of those women speak some English as part of their jobs!

I generally wear athletic shoes here but know it is a fashion faux-pas. But that's because I wear jeans. It is HOT here right now and I DON'T want to wear slacks but will if that's what it takes!

FYI, someone here said that the call girls from Mamba were below par and would come in as 5-6 because they won't be as represented in photos. That assessment is accurate. I've had two, both were 5-6 and gave what I would call good service but were not at all like a strip club girl or even a hot girl on the street here. Just ordinary, really.

So I agree that to get a hottie that way would be lucky. However, that being said it's nice to just sit at home and they come to your door. I even had 2 last night come in a cab and I got to choose! Something to be said for convenience!.) BTW, out the door price was $110 USD.

But now I am thinking I should go for something better. So, I will go to Rio as almost everyone recommends. As I mentioned I live on K Street (or near) and want to avoid a cab. Anywhere else walking distance you'd recommend? I'm thinking Arena? How about O'Brien's? Others? I don't like to use cabs because they rip you off every time! I can walk up to 2 kilometers comfortably no problem from here. Should include more than just the few I mentioned above?

And also: some of you have said approach a girl on the street. I'm not sure how to do that because so many Kiev girls already dress like hookers! Hard to tell them apart, isn't it? Any key signs I should know that would tip me off? I've seen some real hotties at K Street McDonald's standing by themselves at night out front. I hung around awhile thinking maybe they would approach me but no go. Do street walkers here not approach a "John"? Or do I have to guess who the working girl is out on the street. It's a problem, I'm just sayin'.)

Last: day of week. I'm thinking maybe easier to bargain on weekdays? How about summer vs. Winter months? Anyone with experience in this regard?

CityHunter77
06-05-11, 11:36
http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=623825019&hit=3

Has anyone met this Girl before? Claims she is a model and charging $200 an hour.

Harry Hirsch
06-05-11, 14:55
http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=623825019&hit=3

Has anyone met this Girl before? Claims she is a model and charging $200 an hour. The girl on the pic (1) with coloured dress is not the same from the nacked pic's (3)

Take a look to the tits.

And 200 for 1 hour you can get for 200 a girl for one night)

AColonizer
06-05-11, 15:56
I am curious about your replies, since this is the most popular thread of the Ukraine forum. What do you think about the attached girl? What do you think about her age, body, work, prices, services? Is she a next-door girl or a model-style girl? Etc.

151876

LilJoey
06-05-11, 19:47
I am curious about your replies, since this is the most popular thread of the Ukraine forum. What do you think about the attached girl? What do you think about her age, body, work, prices, services? Is she a next-door girl or a model-style girl? Etc.

151876You are the expert on services, so if you're considering her then it means she is up for just about anything for a fairly low price. But these are things one can't tell from a picture.

If you want to know what the readers think about her looks, I will offer my opinion that she is a 5 or 6. She's doable, and if her services are up to your standards then you might have fun. She appears in this photo more of a next door type girl because she does not possess the classic slender "model" type look. She does not have a narrow waist with wide hips which is the classic shape of the eastern european hotties. Instead her waist and her middle are wider giving her a more stocky look which is not the body type that I personally prefer on a girl. Her face is nice enough. It's hard to tell while she's seated whether she has a large chunky ass, or a slender tight sexy ass, but I don't know which type is better for fisting. LOL.

Is it after the fact and you already had your way with her, or are you still just considering her? If her looks appeal to you, and her services and prices are in line with your desires, then go for it. You shouldn't care what other guys think of her looks, unless you plan to parade around town with her. Good luck.

LJ

Crocodilechik
06-05-11, 20:19
She is only a 5 or a 6, which planet do you live on?

A 9 surely.


You are the expert on services, so if you're considering her then it means she is up for just about anything for a fairly low price. But these are things one can't tell from a picture.

If you want to know what the readers think about her looks, I will offer my opinion that she is a 5 or 6. She's doable, and if her services are up to your standards then you might have fun. She appears in this photo more of a next door type girl because she does not possess the classic slender "model" type look. She does not have a narrow waist with wide hips which is the classic shape of the eastern european hotties. Instead her waist and her middle are wider giving her a more stocky look which is not the body type that I personally prefer on a girl. Her face is nice enough. It's hard to tell while she's seated whether she has a large chunky ass, or a slender tight sexy ass, but I don't know which type is better for fisting. LOL.

Is it after the fact and you already had your way with her, or are you still just considering her? If her looks appeal to you, and her services and prices are in line with your desires, then go for it. You shouldn't care what other guys think of her looks, unless you plan to parade around town with her. Good luck.

LJ

LilJoey
06-05-11, 20:29
The girl on the pic (1) with coloured dress is not the same from the nacked pic's (3)

Take a look to the tits.

And 200 for 1 hour you can get for 200 a girl for one night) The man is right. Where have the tits gone in dress photo? Ask her if she had a boob job in between photo shoots? But with or without tits, her face is pretty, although if anything similar to the girl an any of her photos ever showed up from a Mamba contact, I think most of us would be in shock. But for the moment let's assume she looks like her photos. The problem is how to approach negotiations on price.

Usually, it is more productive to try to get them to expand the time, rather than lower the price of 1 hour. You might say that you will be happy to give her $200 but only if she stays for 2 or 3 hours, and if she balks at that you might come down to a minimum of 2 hours. $200 for 2 hours is an acceptable rate in Kiev of $100 / hr and certainly if she looks like the girl in her naked pictures.

Or if you really want her, and your budget allows, and you sense she is stubborn on her rate, then throw her an unexpected curve and say that you have seen so many fake picture girls and that "conditioned on her appearance being exactly as in her profile photos" you are ready to offer her more money! You might say $300 for 3 hours, or $400 for 6 hours, which is more money than she asked. Then the larger amount of money to be earned might tempt her. These rates are not higher than the strip club rates for a hottie, so you will not be overpaying, even if she says yes. Then If she shows up and is a different girl, you can hold an entirely new negotiation right then after she has already invested her time to come, and you can make a deal that is consistent with her actual looks and appearance.

Ultimately, even for a model type you should try to get the rate down to between $100 to $150 an hour, in order not to be paying more than the rates at the strip club or at nightclubs like D'lux or at the Buddha Bar.

LJ

LilJoey
06-05-11, 20:37
She is only a 5 or a 6, which planet do you live on?

A 9 surely. Because her body is not the body of a 9. Look at my recent long post in the middle where I attached 6 photos of what I consider to be 9's or 10's. Every one of them has a smoking body. This girl has a thick body and not a slender waist and probably a fleshy thick ass to boot. She's not a 9 in my standards, although her face is nice.

But men have different tastes. Do you really feel she is a 9? Then how would you rate the 6 models whose photos were in my prior post?

LJ

Prosal
06-05-11, 21:34
But men have different tastes. Do you really feel she is a 9? Then how would you rate the 6 models whose photos were in my prior post?I'd take her anyday.

Who cares about photoshopped pics of improbable glamurnoe kisos? Would be more interesting to see pictures of normal girls (girls who didn't expect any financial benefice but simply liked you as a person) you actually wooed, charmed and fucked.

CityHunter77
06-05-11, 22:18
Yes well spotted Harry.

The highest I ever paid on a Mamba girl was $100 for 2 hours. I've been lucky so far as all girls matched the photos.

I'll ask her the questions, but looks like a boob job for sure.

If I'm going to pay any higher than $100, I'll just stick with Rio / Mandarin to be on the safe side.

Anyone have news about Mandarin yet?


The man is right. Where have the tits gone in dress photo? Ask her if she had a boob job in between photo shoots? But with or without tits, her face is pretty, although if anything similar to the girl an any of her photos ever showed up from a Mamba contact, I think most of us would be in shock. But for the moment let's assume she looks like her photos. The problem is how to approach negotiations on price.

Usually, it is more productive to try to get them to expand the time, rather than lower the price of 1 hour. You might say that you will be happy to give her $200 but only if she stays for 2 or 3 hours, and if she balks at that you might come down to a minimum of 2 hours. $200 for 2 hours is an acceptable rate in Kiev of $100 / hr and certainly if she looks like the girl in her naked pictures.

Or if you really want her, and your budget allows, and you sense she is stubborn on her rate, then throw her an unexpected curve and say that you have seen so many fake picture girls and that "conditioned on her appearance being exactly as in her profile photos" you are ready to offer her more money! You might say $300 for 3 hours, or $400 for 6 hours, which is more money than she asked. Then the larger amount of money to be earned might tempt her. These rates are not higher than the strip club rates for a hottie, so you will not be overpaying, even if she says yes. Then If she shows up and is a different girl, you can hold an entirely new negotiation right then after she has already invested her time to come, and you can make a deal that is consistent with her actual looks and appearance.

Ultimately, even for a model type you should try to get the rate down to between $100 to $150 an hour, in order not to be paying more than the rates at the strip club or at nightclubs like D'lux or at the Buddha Bar.

LJ

Curious12
06-05-11, 22:52
The girl on the pic (1) with coloured dress is not the same from the nacked pic's (3)

Take a look to the tits.

And 200 for 1 hour you can get for 200 a girl for one night) Good catch. I checked it further and I believe the girl on the third picture is Kayden Kross. Type her name in google pictures and compare. I think it's her. Actually that is why I prefer RP (too bad it's gone) , Rio, meeting girls on the street or in stores instead of using Mamba.

Curious12
06-05-11, 23:15
So, I will go to Rio as almost everyone recommends. As I mentioned I live on K Street (or near) and want to avoid a cab. Anywhere else walking distance you'd recommend? I'm thinking Arena? How about O'Brien's? Others? I don't like to use cabs because they rip you off every time! I can walk up to 2 kilometers comfortably no problem from here. Should include more than just the few I mentioned above?If you live on K street, it would just 8-10 minutes for you to walk to Rio. Many people like to stay at Kreshatik 25, famous building with a star. If you are in that area, then you can just cross the steet and walk and you will be at Rio.

151877

Arena is very close as well. O'Brien's is a little far on Mikhaylovskaya street. There's also Heaven, located on Grinchenko 7, literally 2 minutes walking distance from Independance Square. Also check Budda Bar and D'Lux.

Mystery77
06-06-11, 02:01
I am curious about your replies, since this is the most popular thread of the Ukraine forum. What do you think about the attached girl? What do you think about her age, body, work, prices, services? Is she a next-door girl or a model-style girl? Etc.

151876In every girl next door their is a sugar mommy waiting to break free. 20-22 years of age. Costs vary to her experience with guys, on Average I'd guess she'd ask for 500-600 grn an hour. Sexually with the right timing & words, actions, you'd be able to get her into more adventurous activities. A good 7. Or an 8. You can apply makeup, a pretty dress, high heels, & a gocci hairdo, maybe a little colour in the hair some ear rings, & bam!

KievGuy
06-06-11, 08:34
Yes well spotted Harry.

The highest I ever paid on a Mamba girl was $100 for 2 hours. I've been lucky so far as all girls matched the photos.

I'll ask her the questions, but looks like a boob job for sure.

If I'm going to pay any higher than $100, I'll just stick with Rio / Mandarin to be on the safe side.

Anyone have news about Mandarin yet?Wow, you HAVE been lucky! NONE of the Mamba girls I've had matched. And they wanted substantially more than what you've quoted. $50 / hour or less? How did you negotiate that rate? I'm curious as to whether time of day / season affects price.

Also, I've heard some posters say they don't pay until services are rendered. I've tried that and actually had one girl leave because I refused to pay up front. Is the practice of not paying in advance restricted only to a particular type of girl, for example, escort service vs. Stripper vs.

DoctorOral
06-06-11, 09:09
In every girl next door their is a sugar mommy waiting to break free. 20-22 years of age. Costs vary to her experience with guys, on Average I'd guess she'd ask for 500-600 grn an hour. Sexually with the right timing & words, actions, you'd be able to get her into more adventurous activities. A good 7. Or an 8. You can apply makeup, a pretty dress, high heels, & a gocci hairdo, maybe a little colour in the hair some ear rings, & bam!What I think of her?

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EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited or deleted because it was written in ALL CAPITAL LETTERING. In the future, please do not write reports in ALL CAPITAL LETTERING. Thanks!

CityHunter77
06-06-11, 19:06
Wow, you HAVE been lucky! NONE of the Mamba girls I've had matched. And they wanted substantially more than what you've quoted. $50 / hour or less? How did you negotiate that rate? I'm curious as to whether time of day / season affects price.

Also, I've heard some posters say they don't pay until services are rendered. I've tried that and actually had one girl leave because I refused to pay up front. Is the practice of not paying in advance restricted only to a particular type of girl, for example, escort service vs. Stripper vs. I have to thank Hunter Dave for the contact. Tried to PM you, but you haven't got a subscription.

Even if you are 54 as long as you are fairly well off you can have any Girl.

How has your experience been so far regarding performance of the Girls?

Explorer69
06-06-11, 20:11
[. There's also Heaven, located on Grinchenko 7, literally 2 minutes walking distance from Independance Square. . [/QUOTE]What can you tell about heaven, what is it?

LilJoey
06-06-11, 20:41
Wow, you HAVE been lucky! NONE of the Mamba girls I've had matched. And they wanted substantially more than what you've quoted. $50 / hour or less? How did you negotiate that rate? I'm curious as to whether time of day / season affects price.

Also, I've heard some posters say they don't pay until services are rendered. I've tried that and actually had one girl leave because I refused to pay up front. Is the practice of not paying in advance restricted only to a particular type of girl, for example, escort service vs. Stripper vs. Your questions have for the most part been answered in recent posts even in just the last 2. 3 months. I know I have written about prices on mamba and top modals, and others have as well. Just go on top-modals. Com website and you will see a number of girls asking 400 UAH which is $50 USD, although they tend to be the less attractive of the lot. Same on mamba. Ru website or street. So by reading the forum properly, you and other newbies asking for info and advice that has been repetitively posted on the thread just so you could read it and benefit from it, could benefit far more than just signing on and asking questions. As others have written, and this is in caps for a reason, RTFF.

Now having gotten that off my chest, and certain that you will heed my advice to read at least the last 2. 3 months of this thread, and more if you have time before your trip, I will explain to you what has worked for me in the past. The reason for the girls demanding payment up front is because they have experienced or heard about guys who fuck and then don't pay the girl and THEY don't want to get ripped off after giving their body to some asshole. Once you understand where the girls are coming from you can take reassuring steps designed to show them that you are not such a rippoff guy and they have nothing to fear from you.

Here is what you should do: tell the girl that you understand her concerns but you also have concerns having heard stories about not nice girls taking money and then ripping the guy off. Tell her you are happy to take out and show and count the money to her satisfaction so she knows it is there for her, if she agrees that the money will be placed on top of the table and she is only to take it when she is leaving after finishing the session. If she agrees, it is a sign of her good faith. If she will not agree even to that compromise, it is a sign that she knowes she has no intention of providing good service, and you would be best to cut such a girl loose.

The money being left on a table that she can only take later, provides a psychological stimulus for her to perform properly.

Good luck

KievGuy
06-06-11, 22:26
Your questions have for the most part been answered in recent posts even in just the last 2. 3 months. I know I have written about prices on mamba and top modals, and others have as well. Just go on top-modals. Com website and you will see a number of girls asking 400 UAH which is $50 USD, although they tend to be the less attractive of the lot. Same on mamba. Ru website or street. So by reading the forum properly, you and other newbies asking for info and advice that has been repetitively posted on the thread just so you could read it and benefit from it, could benefit far more than just signing on and asking questions. As others have written, and this is in caps for a reason, RTFF.

Now having gotten that off my chest, and certain that you will heed my advice to read at least the last 2. 3 months of this thread, and more if you have time before your trip, I will explain to you what has worked for me in the past. The reason for the girls demanding payment up front is because they have experienced or heard about guys who fuck and then don't pay the girl and THEY don't want to get ripped off after giving their body to some asshole. Once you understand where the girls are coming from you can take reassuring steps designed to show them that you are not such a rippoff guy and they have nothing to fear from you.

Here is what you should do: tell the girl that you understand her concerns but you also have concerns having heard stories about not nice girls taking money and then ripping the guy off. Tell her you are happy to take out and show and count the money to her satisfaction so she knows it is there for her, if she agrees that the money will be placed on top of the table and she is only to take it when she is leaving after finishing the session. If she agrees, it is a sign of her good faith. If she will not agree even to that compromise, it is a sign that she knowes she has no intention of providing good service, and you would be best to cut such a girl loose.

The money being left on a table that she can only take later, provides a psychological stimulus for her to perform properly.

Good luckYes, some have probably been answered. I'll be honest and tell you that, while I appreciate everyone's experience, what I value most is that you are willing to give immediate advice without forcing me through reams of data, much of which is useless to me personally. Thank you in advance for your expertise!

I DID look, just for the record, and saw your post about putting the money on the table, etc. I DID do exactly as you suggested, and it didn't work. She left. Not saying it happens every time. Obviously not for you. But it DID happen to me that way, and I'm pretty sure others who use Mamba will also get that experience. So maybe the difference was in the type of service? In the event, I did use the same Mamba escort service, paid up front, and got what I wanted, so it's all good.

Yes, you'll find a VERY SMALL number at 400 UAH, but that will be for basic service which is not my own personal requirement. And I doubt based on what I've heard here so far that anyone on these boards would be satisfied with what you get for under 400UAH. Certainly not getting good service from a 7 at that rate, IMO, unless you're OK with a ho-hum condom ride.

FYI, this isn't a "trip" for me. I live here, a point I thought I had made earlier. Maybe not. Now you know. I went by Buddha Bar and Arena today at 2PM. No one there at all. I'm sure this comes as no surprise, just trying to add to the information here. Arena. Ditto. I'll check out some other clubs and let you all know as I scope them out (what's with the "Red Lion"?). And yes, thanks for the wishes of good luck and I DO really appreciate the time you took to respond!

Hummer Bird
06-06-11, 23:09
hard core professional that can be found at Rio, and the other the 20 year old student that can be found elsewhere. One of them will cost $300-500, The other can be had for $100. There is different fantasy component to having sex with someone like that.YEAH! This is what I am talking about! FANtaStiC!

Member #4243
06-06-11, 23:13
Hi to all members. I have 3 specific questions regarding Rio club I have not been able to find answers to on the forum.

1) I am british born, I live in england and of egyptian parentage. I have read clubs like shooters can have a 'racist' door.

Policy. Can someone confirm if Rio club is friendly towards foreigners, especially men of middle eastern appearance, and.

That if any members of this forum have seen foreign middleeastern men inside Rio club. It would be awful to fly in from.

The you. K. And then to be refused entrance.

2) is a smart trouser / shirt / shoes okay for entrance / face control / or is a smart suit blazer jacket needed?

3) finally apart from $300 take out fee is a budget of 600 grivnas enough to cover Rio extras (100-entrance; 200-manager tips; 200-dance; 100-non alcoholic drinks as I do not drink? Thanks mohab.

Insomniaque
06-07-11, 00:13
You wrote that 'increased chances of getting a GFE' was your sole justification for mongering at Rio strip club. I suppose the reason for your expectation of an increased chance of GFE at the strip club was based on the fact that it is a controlled environment and presumably the club supervises its product (the girls) and exercises 'quality control' to insure they behave properly.Nope, I did not rely on the club and the management (which is doing fuckall, I guess) but rather on my own skills; I mean, the way it works (eye-contact, private dance, interview) was meant to make a proper selection, while such a selection remained hardly possible with regular WG which are always "straight to business". But as I have learned at my own expenses, sometimes you are just not skilled enough =/


I had other reasons for going to Rio which are worth considering. My reasons were (a) cost—rlated and (be) efficiency—related.

(a) In terms of costs, I felt that the prices being asked by the girls in the nightclubs ($300 or $400 for two hours, which is a net rate of $150-$200 per hour) were higher than the costs at Rio ($300 for three hours, or a net rate of $100 per hour). I was capable of utilizing and enjoying three hours with a beautiful girl, and the price was low enough, so I was ok with the 3 hour minimum.

(be) In terms of efficiency, the girls at Rio were all collected there in one place beginning earlier than nightclubs at 8:00 PM opening time and were being passed directly in front of me a few at a time, leaving me free to easily approach and make contact with any girl I saw that I wanted to speak to, or have her summoned to me by a manager. I could fully see the body and looks of each girl from all angles. This was much more efficient than the nightclub scene where I would have to chase all over a nightclub after a girl I might like or go to nightclubs all over the city and then at each nightclub I would have to spend time to figure out who was an 'available' WG. Plus my visits to Avalon and Buddha Bar were failures because there were not a lot a lot of girls to be found there at the time of my visits. So I didn't want to waste more time with the nightclubs, and chose the efficient and more certain location for girls who I might take home.

I also felt that pursuing internet girls was a very inefficient direction to pursue because of the fake photos and bait and switch which resulted in a colossal waste of time. So despite the lower prices on the internet, I limited my involvement with mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com and other websites to daytime hours when there were no nightclub or strip club options, but for the evenings I felt the only viable options were nightclubs or the strip clubs like Rio. I agree with all this. Only if you choose to play it carefully (private dances, drinks, drinks for the girls, tips to the management and so on) at the end of the day, your Rio girl may cost you more than $300. 2-3 private dances / interviews and you already find yourself around $400. It goes up pretty quickly. Hence the importance of making the right choice. I really have no problem with the 3h minimum, PROVIDED I am with the right girl!


WHAT DOES A 9 OR A 10 LOOK LIKE? : In order to avoid further confusion on this issue, I am attaching hereto pictures of girls who I think could qualify as beauties to be rated as 9's or 10's.This is a nice initiative as it allows to "calibrate" our respective scales. Okay, here is how I see things:

Stephanie Glasson: 4. NOT DO-ABLE (unless she pays)

Jayde Nicole: 8.

Kassie Lyn Logsdon: 9+

Tyffany Selby: 5-6.

Tyran Richard: 8 for the face (the eyes!) , but her tits are just fucking horrible.

Amelia: 9.

Heather Renee Smith: 6. Because I am in a good mood.

I expect some of you to freak out at me. From my perspective, a girl with fake boobs (or anything fake, for that matter) can hardly qualify for the highest ranks. I like tits that look like tits, not fucking footballs. Stephanie Glasson, for instance, is the very illustration of a trend that will undoubtedly lead the world to ruin.

Anyway, regarding Rio, as this was the point, IMHO there are girls that are (much) more beautiful than this.


We men are peculiar. We like to argue about irrelevant things. Nevertheless, the photos clarified the difference of opinion. People just like different things. Here are 2 girls of the type that we are discussing, one typifies the hard core professional that can be found at Rio, and the other the 20 year old student that can be found elsewhere.I find this really caricaturated. I have been to Rio 5-6 times and I have not seen many specimens of such hard core pros as your picture. As a matter of fact, I can't remember one. There are many girls in Rio whom I do not find attractive, but they are very far from being that worn out! Most of them are younger and fresher, and much less surgery-damaged. Thank God. As for the other girl, I am not too impressed. There are fresher things out there than FTV models =)


I am curious about your replies, since this is the most popular thread of the Ukraine forum. What do you think about the attached girl? What do you think about her age, body, work, prices, services? Is she a next-door girl or a model-style girl? Etc.Obviously a girl next-door. I would say a 7 or an 8. But difficult to tell really, this photo doesn't show much. Maybe you have some more pics? As for the price, assuming you have never met before, around 80$ per hour? Something like that?

Curious12
06-07-11, 00:41
What can you tell about heaven, what is it?It's a night club, I have been there a few times with a friend. I just mentioned it because I was asked about clubs that can be reached from Kreshatik by simply walking there. I'm not sure if there are any WG there, but as usual some pretty Kiev devushkas visit the club.

Here you can see the lastest pictures:

http://nightlife.tochka.net/gallery/cat/5991/page/1/

If you're standing at the centre of the Independance Square, you have to take the street on the left side and in 2 minutes you will be there.

I have attahced a picture of club's entrance.

LilJoey
06-07-11, 06:43
this is a nice initiative as it allows to "calibrate" our respective scales. okay, here is how i see things:

stephanie glasson: 4. not do-able (unless she pays)

jayde nicole: 8.

kassie lyn logsdon: 9+

tyffany selby: 5-6.

tyran richard: 8 for the face (the eyes!) , but her tits are just fucking horrible.

amelia: 9.

heather renee smith: 6. because i am in a good mood.

i expect some of you to freak out at me. from my perspective, a girl with fake boobs (or anything fake, for that matter) can hardly qualify for the highest ranks. i like tits that look like tits, not fucking footballs. stephanie glasson, for instance, is the very illustration of a trend that will undoubtedly lead the world to ruin.

anyway, regarding rio, as this was the point, imho there are girls that are (much) more beautiful than this. insomniaque, it's an interesting response. i am trying to understand why you rated things differently. the only key you provided is that any girl with enhanced boobs automatically is distasteful to you, no matter how pretty her facial features, or how smoking the rest of her body is in the pelvic or pussy area, thighs, ass, legs, none of it matters to you in the face of football boobs.

here are the photos links again, so others can follow what is being discussed:



151808

151809

151810

151811

151812

151813

151814


i suppose you realize, (since you're clever enough to spot an ftv photo in stevie69's post) , that all of these girls whose photos i uploaded for examples are, in fact, playboy magazine "playmates of the month" from various years, (with the exception of amelia who is an escort i met in london mentioned in my first post as an example of the kind of 9 or 10 rated girl i am looking for when mongering). therefore, each of these girls, other than amelia, has gone through an exhaustive selection process to be selected as a playmate of the month. this means that they are beautiful in the eyes of a fairly good cross-section of people in the beauty business. so i truly didn't expect much debate on their beauty. there were many playmates i passed over and i only chose what i thought were the prettiest ones as examples of a 9 or 10.

so your post was interesting to me. i actually agree that jayde nicole should be rated a tad lower than the others, because you can see the difference in facial prettiness between her and a girl like kassie lyn logsdon who is very pretty facially. i can even agree that with respect to tiffany selby, leaving aside the boobs issue for a moment, she has a less good body than the others because of her narrower boyish hips, so even though her facial prettiness is on a very high level, she should be rated just a bit behind than the others. i am truly at a loss as to why heather rene smith is so low down the scale in your eyes, as her face is very pretty and her body is smoking in the hips, thighs, legs, pussy area. her sole flaw is enhanced boobs.

so to a guy like you, even if you don't like enhanced boobs, all these girls have very pretty faces and have girl-sexy smoking curves. is it really true that because of the fake boobs you wouldn't have sex with them, if they came on to you? i find it difficult to believe anyone is throwing any of these babes out of bed!

i thought it would be an interesting exercise to see the way different guys view beauty. i had actually concieved something of a more elaborate game to entertain the boys here on the forum with photos of girls i thought were top girls, those who were 2nd tier girls, and those who were doable but not beauties, and then i was going to mix up the order and ask the responders to group the girls into the three tiers the way they saw it. i was interested to see on what aspects of beauty the guys might differ. it's something that a guy can't explain with words, but he can say which photos he likes most, medium and least. anyway, time got te better of me, and i just limited my post to an illustration of what i thought would be universally acknowledged as top tier girls (9's and 10's allowing for some reasonable differences of opinion). maybe someone else will concoct such a game to entertain us.

thankfully for you guys who are "boobs" connoisseurs, in kiev, not a lot of young girls have the money for boob jobs.

me? i don't care so much about the boobs, because i am an ass man first. if a girl has a tight, slender sexy ass and well formed pussy area (look at kassie lyn logsdon's flat stomach and wide hips and a pussy that just draws you like a magnet to want to get between those sexy legs and go down on her) then i start to get excited with a visceral reaction and feel my engine gunning down below. if she has a face as pretty as kassie, or any of the playmates above, and she smiles in my direction and seems to like me, my heart can start pounding. at this point, i'm just like all those cops who lost it, when sharon stone crossed and uncrossed her legs, deliberately showing them her snatch in the movie "basic instinct." at this point, even if the girl is flat as a board, and has the smallest size bra (in usa an "a" cup) , i don't care. in fact, i like a gymnast's or a dancer's body, which is usually lithe, sleek, with well formed thighs and legs, but usually no tits. if the girl has nice tits too, it's just extra gravy for me.

but i understand that there are many men who are "face" men, or "tits" men, and that is their primary sexual focus.

given that i am so susceptible to womens charms, it's a miracle that i have been to a place like rio and have yet emerged unrep001hed by a "bad" girl. she would have had me under her spell, just like she had you, insomniaque. roll with the punches.

lj

LilJoey
06-07-11, 09:27
Hi to all members. I have 3 specific questions regarding Rio club I have not been able to find answers to on the forum.

1) I am british born, I live in england and of egyptian parentage. I have read clubs like shooters can have a 'racist' door.

Policy. Can someone confirm if Rio club is friendly towards foreigners, especially men of middle eastern appearance, and.

That if any members of this forum have seen foreign middleeastern men inside Rio club. It would be awful to fly in from.

The you. K. And then to be refused entrance.

2) is a smart trouser / shirt / shoes okay for entrance / face control / or is a smart suit blazer jacket needed?

3) finally apart from $300 take out fee is a budget of 600 grivnas enough to cover Rio extras (100-entrance; 200-manager tips; 200-dance; 100-non alcoholic drinks as I do not drink? Thanks mohab. 1. I don't know the anser for sure, but you have asked several times and no one else has responded to you, so I will tell you what I think, and maybe it will help. I have seen men with Mediterranean look, like a Greek or Italian guy in Rio without problem. If you're saying that your skin color is very dark, like for example the Egyptian President Anwar Sadat was, then I would say that you could rely on the responses in earlier posts on this very thread when it was asked if a black guy would have any problem in Kiev, and I think I remember reading that the answer was "no." you should search and review this thread to confirm this. However, I don't recall specifically seeing men of very dark skin color at Rio during any of my visits. But I think you have many other options in Kiev where your skin color wouldn't make a difference, so you would not be wasting a trip regardless. In Kiev, as in other parts of the world, cash is king.

2. This question is really not necessary, because common sense should tell you that you should err on the side of caution, and dress up to go to anywhere you're not sure. What can it hurt? Perhaps the women will think you're some government hotshot or rich businessman, and it will work in your favor. And then if you see that a particular venue is more laid back when you go the first time, then the second time you go you can come more casual. This isn't rocket science. In Rio it is not apparent if there is any dress code. I don't believe a jacket is required, as I've seen guys in shirts. Although I personally do wear a sport jacket, but I've only been to Kiev when the weather was cold or mild. If you're coming in the summer, I'm sure smart shirt / slacks is fine. That is as regards Rio. However, as regards a normal nightclub dress could be important because the women size you up according to the richness and classiness of your look, and also there might be a face control issue at some nightclubs.

3. This question is even more unnecessary. The costs associated with visiting Rio have all been discussed in DETAIL in this thread. Are you reading the thread from at least several months back? You shouldn't just post questions several times over to get someone to answer and spoonfeed you unless you have truly made the effort to read the forum for at least a couple months back and make notes, or copy / paste important info you find to a summary page for later review. You also need some street smarts and some common sense. For example, you know the prices of the various costs in Rio as evident from your question. So why are you asking others how much you should spend? You only allocate 100 UAH for drinks non-alcoholic. That's fine. I often also just get a hot tea, if I'm not in the mood to drink, or they have juices there too, which are inexpensive items relatively. But do you really think you will get away with not buying any drinks for a girl who is sitting and talking with you, especially if you like her? What will you do when the waitress comes over? Also, you budget 200 UAH for 1 private dance. Do you really anticipate only one dance? That's fine. But you'd better make it count and choose the right girl for that one dance, because if the dance doesn't help you decide on taking that girl, or she is a dancer-only who doesn't go out from club, then you may need to do other private dances. So one dance is the minimum, and that's if you're lucky and everything goes smoothly and the one girl you chose convinces you she will give you a great GFE experience. But that would be a lucky outcome. Again common sense will tell you that you need to be flexible about costs because you have a goal to achieve when you go to a place like Rio, which is to bring home a girl who will delight you. So obviously you may need to invest in more than one private dance or even buy a girl or more than one girl a drink.

Insomniaque
06-07-11, 09:34
Insomniaque, it's an interesting response. I am trying to understand why you rated things differently. The only key you provided is that any girl with enhanced boobs automatically is distasteful to you, no matter how pretty her facial features, or how smoking the rest of her body is in the pelvic or pussy area, thighs, ass, legs, none of it matters to you in the face of football boobs.The only thing I wrote is that a woman with "enhanced" things (boobs, lips, etc.) could not qualify for the highest rankings, that is to say the 9' and 10'. I did not say it automatically and utterly disqualified her, and I can give a fair 8 or even a 9 to a girl despite some fake stuff; but only a pure natural beauty should deserve a full 10. Unless the surgeon is a true artist and enhances relevant parts in such a way that you cannot tell whether they are enhanced or not; but this is something I have scarcely witnessed, this is not the trend and this is not the case here, anyway. The mistake is not possible, and this is where the problem is.

Also, let it be clear that I am VERY sensitive to the face and the rest of the body and it can MUCH counterbalance football tits. The face is actually what matters most to me (I can be attracted to death by a girl with beautiful eyes or lips but a quite average body) ; then comes the body as a whole (general figure, small of the back, waist to hip ratio) and then only the details (boobs etc.). Now take a look at this Stephanie Glasson: her face is not at all appealing, the features are not quite harmonious and there is no charm whatsoever; as for the body, it is not an harmonious whole; the main problem here is not the fake boobs in themselves but rather the fact that such boobs just stick out like the eyes of a crocodile; such an unnatural contrast "breaks" the natural curves of the female body. So from my perspective, your description (pretty face, smoking body) simply does not apply here.


I suppose you realize, (since you're clever enough to spot an FTV photo in Stevie69's post) , that all of these girls whose photos I uploaded for examples are, in fact, Playboy Magazine "Playmates of the Month" from various years, (with the exception of Amelia who is an escort I met in London mentioned in my first post as an example of the kind of 9 or 10 rated girl I am looking for when mongering). Therefore, each of these girls, other than Amelia, has gone through an exhaustive selection process to be selected as a Playmate of the Month. This means that they are beautiful in the eyes of a fairly good cross-section of people in the beauty business. So I truly didn't expect much debate on their beauty. There were many Playmates I passed over and I only chose what I thought were the prettiest ones as examples of a 9 or 10.Of course I realized. =) I boast about being a true centerfold expert. =) And when I mentioned the trend towards ruin, this is EXACTLY what I was talking about. Just compare the PMOM's from the 70's and early 80's to what is to be found in Playboy nowadays. Over the decades, surgery has invaded centerfolds; and now it is just an escalation: always bigger, always less natural, always more obvious. More, more and more, that is the motto. Allow me to attach a few pics of some of my all-time favourites: can you tell the difference between those delicious-looking CURVES and the BONY Stephanie Glasson?


So to a guy like you, even if you don't like enhanced boobs, all these girls have very pretty faces and have girl-sexy smoking curves. Is it really true that because of the fake boobs you wouldn't have sex with them, if they came on to you? I find it difficult to believe anyone is throwing any of these babes out of bed!I was provocative, naturally. I would probably do any of those girls, as I have already done some who were far worse-looking! But to make it clear, and regardless of the boobs, not all of those gilrs do have a smoking body or a pretty face, from my point of view; nor do they deserve a 9 or 10.

LilJoey
06-07-11, 14:23
I can give a fair 8 or even a 9 to a girl despite some fake stuff; but only a pure natural beauty should deserve a full 10.

Also, let it be clear that I am VERY sensitive to the face and the rest of the body and it can MUCH counterbalance football tits. The face is actually what matters most to me (I can be attracted to death by a girl with beautiful eyes or lips but a quite average body) ; then comes the body as a whole (general figure, small of the back, waist to hip ratio) and then only the details (boobs etc.).

Regardless of the boobs, not all of those gilrs do have a smoking body or a pretty face, from my point of view; nor do they deserve a 9 or 10. About Stephanie Glasson, I can see that her stringy muscularity is not sexy to you and you like softer curves and surfaces on a woman. At least I can understand how you differentiate her from others. To me she has a pretty face, albeit not structurally perfect.

But do you really not find Heather Renee Smith to have a very pretty face and wide hips and sexy curves to her body (other than the boobs issue)? It's hard for me to understand it. Are guys really so divergent in what they consider pretty?

It's an eye. Opener.

Mystery77
06-07-11, 14:41
The only thing I wrote is that a woman with "enhanced" things (boobs, lips, etc.) could not qualify for the highest rankings, that is to say the 9' and 10'. I did not say it automatically and utterly disqualified her, and I can give a fair 8 or even a 9 to a girl despite some fake stuff; but only a pure natural beauty should deserve a full 10. Unless the surgeon is a true artist and enhances relevant parts in such a way that you cannot tell whether they are enhanced or not; but this is something I have scarcely witnessed, this is not the trend and this is not the case here, anyway. The mistake is not possible, and this is where the problem is.Would she really still be a 10. Is it fair to class an enhanced beauty modification on a woman in the rating scales as the same as a natural beauty.

Athletes on performance enhancing drugs, world champions & graced as the best, well until some are found out. People taking tablets to enhance the mental process, or artificial chips connected to the brain for bio-technology. Android enhancements. In other words robocop sh*t. The spoils of the "righteous or honest" war.

If everything in this world is based on energy & matter down to root formula. Then I supose beside what we consider to be right wrong, everything is fair, everything is right. Good & bad is a point of view. To accept one form of enhancement & deny another is what? . All to human =)

With all this said, I would rather spend my time with a complete natural beauty, in place of a enhanced beauty. Be everything else the same, personality, resources, social. But then would it really matter the question should be asked? Hmm, well what happens if her tits pop! Ahh. So in situations things could work against a enhanced beauty.

However generally enhancements are for confidence or attention. Have you seen some of those actors with those interesting looking big lip enhancements. Now thats supposed to be a beauty enhancement.

Insomniaque
06-07-11, 17:40
About Stephanie Glasson, I can see that her stringy muscularity is not sexy to you and you like softer curves and surfaces on a woman. At least I can understand how you differentiate her from others. To me she has a pretty face, albeit not structurally perfect.

But do you really not find Heather Renee Smith to have a very pretty face and wide hips and sexy curves to her body (other than the boobs issue)? It's hard for me to understand it. Are guys really so divergent in what they consider pretty? My friend, guys can be EXTREMELY divergent in what they consider pretty. (And so can girls.) Fortunately, I might add!

No, I don't find Heather Renee Smith much attractive; I agree, she has nice hips and her body is nice (leaving aside the boobs) ; but really I don't like her face. I don't like her eyes, I don't like the eyebrows, I don't like the lips much, and her nose is just, well, disturbing. I am not saying she is an ugly girl out of context, no no no! But she is miles and miles away from what I call a very pretty face.

And conversely, I am quite sure there are faces which, in MY opinion, border on the sublime, but which YOU would find unattractive. Was I not afraid that Jackson got aggravated if we keep posting pics that have nothing to do with the Kiev scene, I would attach a collection of what I consider very pretty faces: I am sure some of them would be not at all to your taste.

Mystery77
06-07-11, 22:11
Slightly off topic but interesting. As a relative new member to typing on a forum this is getting interesting. Its good to hear the words of 2 "senior" members (whatever that means on this forum). I'm sure you'd both fuck each others previous girls without a second thought come end of day.

It's good to know the in's & out's of different places, different situations from others experience. & it is refreshing to talk a little outside of the box.

I hope more outside of the box relating to Kiev conversation will take place.

Hummer Bird
06-07-11, 23:35
The o...r 10.Wow, I remember wacking it to those centerfolds from the 80's. Nice memories, wish I had pursued those types harder! Penny McGrath? Kimberly? Humm can; t remember the name.

BTW who are the black haired hotties?

Roberto Cavalli
06-08-11, 02:31
Dear friends,

I plan a trip to Kiev starting from 18th June. I did not decide how long to stay.

What you think about Kiev during second half of June?

Will there be many freebies on clubs, bars, street? I am mostly interested in freebie action.

Zazdarvoya.

Crocodilechik
06-08-11, 05:48
Guys, looking to do my own photo shoot or make my own amateur movie when next in Kiev. Does anyone know pretty girls willing to be photographed / filmed or any good agencies who can assist?

Please PM with details.

Thanks

Insomniaque
06-08-11, 07:36
Wow, I remember wacking it to those centerfolds from the 80's. Nice memories, wish I had pursued those types harder! Penny McGrath? Kimberly? Humm can; t remember the name.Kym Malin. =) Miss May 1982. Maybe you were thinking of Kimberly McArthur? (Pretty awesome, too)

The twins are Sarah & Deisy Teles. Truly incredible babes, aren't they. I am not sure they have appeared in the US issue; I first spotted them in the Brazilian one.

Speaking of who is a 10 and who is not, I would be curious to hear what you fellows think about this specimen:

http://flirt.com.ua/oksytka1/?afolder=albums&

From my point of view she is in the top 10 of the hottest girls on Mamba. I would quite happily sell my soul to the devil for that one. If I still had a soul, I mean. =)

Needless to say I tried to approach her. Without success. Has anyone here been more lucky? Would be curious to know.

Insomniaque
06-08-11, 07:58
Guys, looking to do my own photo shoot or make my own amateur movie when next in Kiev. Does anyone know pretty girls willing to be photographed / filmed or any good agencies who can assist?

Please PM with details.

ThanksAn interesting topic. It had never occured to me that such "agencies" could exist?

When the chick is nice enough I always try to shoot; and most of the time, it works. Most girls will not go beyond softcore stuff (just like our dear centerfolds) , others will grant some more; but generally speaking I would say that girls do not mind a couple of photos.

Having said that, I never tried a movie. But I am quite keen on the idea. =)

Stevie69
06-08-11, 22:04
Assuming that beauty is normally distributed, like height for example, for the scientifically challenged, it seems different men not only have different tastes, but use the 1-10 scale very differently.

Some might think that 10% of women of the group in question (e. G. 18-30, or 'normal', or 'working girls, or Kiev party girls) are 10s. 10% 9s. 10% are 8s, and so on. Others might divide the entire range into 10 groups with equal increments. Think of height instead of beauty and let's say that the range is 145cm to 195 cm, then 145-150 is 1, 150-155 is 2, 155-160 is 3, 160-165 is 4, etc. In that case, MOST women would be 4 and 5's and very few would be 10s or1s. Other men might use most of the scale for the upper range, so half (50%) are 1s, of the ones left half (or 25%) are 2s, of the ones left half (12. 5%) are 3s, of the ones left, half (6. 25%) are 4s, etc. Same could be used for thirds instead of halves. Or it could be some functional definition, where anyone good enough to have sex (while sober?) is a 5, and anyone with whom you would have a 1 in a million chance WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT is a 10. Other methods are possible, of course. Whichever system you use, you could define it using the women in your home city and then apply it to the women in Kiev, or you could develop and new scale for Kiev.

How we use the 1-10 scale, combined with the fact that men have different tastes, makes the scale a little pointless, even if we post dozens of photos of Playmates from decades past.

The real question is how do Kiev women compare with your girlfriend / wife or to the girls on the streets at your home city. I live in Eastern Europe. I will not say where, but I will say that in any major city in Eastern Europe (Kiev, Prague, Tallinn, St. Pete, Riga, Moscow, Warsaw.) women are far better than anywhere in North America and most of Western Europe. They are slim, stylish, elegant, exquisitely feminine and undeniably sexy. As long as you like or prefer Caucasian women, particularly blondes, and often with blue eyes, you will be impressed.

The original discussion was whether it is necessary to go to Rio and pay premium prices or find someone more reasonably priced on the streets or elsewhere. I think one of the great pleasures of living in Eastern Europe and visiting Kiev is the visual spectacle of an endless supply of gorgeous women. Unlike some other cities, one added benefit of Kiev is that, because of the economy, many of the girls are semi-pros and can be had for a modest fee. To me the babes on the streets are just as beautiful; others might disagree, but it is probably because we define beauty differently, and use a different scale.

KrisVerma
06-09-11, 12:07
Assuming that beauty is normally distributed, like height for example, for the scientifically challenged, it seems different men not only have different tastes, but use the 1-10 scale very differently.

Some might think that 10% of women of the group in question (e. G. 18-30, or 'normal', or 'working girls, or Kiev party girls) are 10s. 10% 9s. 10% are 8s, and so on. Others might divide the entire range into 10 groups with equal increments. Think of height instead of beauty and let's say that the range is 145cm to 195 cm, then 145-150 is 1, 150-155 is 2, 155-160 is 3, 160-165 is 4, etc. In that case, MOST women would be 4 and 5's and very few would be 10s or1s. Other men might use most of the scale for the upper range, so half (50%) are 1s, of the ones left half (or 25%) are 2s, of the ones left half (12. 5%) are 3s, of the ones left, half (6. 25%) are 4s, etc. Same could be used for thirds instead of halves. Or it could be some functional definition, where anyone good enough to have sex (while sober?) is a 5, and anyone with whom you would have a 1 in a million chance WITHOUT PAYING FOR IT is a 10. Other methods are possible, of course. Whichever system you use, you could define it using the women in your home city and then apply it to the women in Kiev, or you could develop and new scale for Kiev.

How we use the 1-10 scale, combined with the fact that men have different tastes, makes the scale a little pointless, even if we post dozens of photos of Playmates from decades past.

The real question is how do Kiev women compare with your girlfriend / wife or to the girls on the streets at your home city. I live in Eastern Europe. I will not say where, but I will say that in any major city in Eastern Europe (Kiev, Prague, Tallinn, St. Pete, Riga, Moscow, Warsaw.) women are far better than anywhere in North America and most of Western Europe. They are slim, stylish, elegant, exquisitely feminine and undeniably sexy. As long as you like or prefer Caucasian women, particularly blondes, and often with blue eyes, you will be impressed.

The original discussion was whether it is necessary to go to Rio and pay premium prices or find someone more reasonably priced on the streets or elsewhere. I think one of the great pleasures of living in Eastern Europe and visiting Kiev is the visual spectacle of an endless supply of gorgeous women. Unlike some other cities, one added benefit of Kiev is that, because of the economy, many of the girls are semi-pros and can be had for a modest fee. To me the babes on the streets are just as beautiful; others might disagree, but it is probably because we define beauty differently, and use a different scale.Very well said Stevie.

I used to travel to Kiev in 2003. 2005 and the memory of amazing looking women walking around Kreschatik still brings a smile to my face.

Never seen that quantity of beautiful women per square kilometer shall we say.

A big Hi to everyone on the Ukraine board. You guy's are the reason why people like me log on to ISG. So thanks for all the great reports and info.

Me and You
06-09-11, 16:31
[QUOTE=Insomniaque; 1160785 (I mean PERFECT) , limber curves. Miam, miam! Let us just hope that the face will be nice as well! And then she turned, and the world just froze. I raised my eyebrows and stared at her stupidly. It was not a downgrade. It was not an upgrade. It was a miracle. Soft face, nice lips, perfect eyebrows, and most of all, the most beautiful, tenebrious dark eyes I have seen in Ukraine. Just too damn beautiful![/QUOTE]She is perfect. Very beautiful, soft sexy 19 years old. I pushes her to DATY after a king time of tlak (if you don't accpet DATY no need to make anyhting. I give you taxi money and you go home) she accpeted. Good sex with a beauty. But not excpetional (CBJ she like sot suck and lick balls, no real DFK, no real DATY even accepeted. But good hot sex. She likes doggy and she likes hard sex.

Yesterday I did anal the first girl I met in Kiev from Mamba DANA. 100+ 50 (for anal). Good fuck. She is 8+ face, body 9+ tall 177 blonde, service 9 (dfk- DATY- bbj- anal.)

Dudes. I am in town for about 2 weeks. I just arrived yesterday. Anybody in town for a drink and some hunting.

Insomniaque
06-09-11, 18:33
She is perfect. Very beautiful, soft sexy 19 years old. I pushes her to DATY after a king time of tlak (if you don't accpet DATY no need to make anyhting. I give you taxi money and you go home) she accpeted. Good sex with a beauty. But not excpetional (CBJ she like sot suck and lick balls, no real DFK, no real DATY even accepeted. But good hot sex. She likes doggy and she likes hard sex.I see we had very similar experiences: good (but not awesome) sex with a perfect-looking girl. I got pretty much the same service (or lack of service). I am glad you enjoyed her beauty =)

Hummer Bird
06-09-11, 20:49
Kym Malin. =) Miss May 1982. Maybe you were thinking of Kimberly McArthur? (Pretty awesome, too)

The twins are Sarah & Deisy Teles. Truly incredible babes, aren't they. I. Fantastic Specimen there!

BTW anybody know who this girl is in the video, reminds me of the hotties here in this forum.

http://www.badjojo.com/1103279/ria-sex-on-camera-1327mins/

KievGuy
06-09-11, 23:58
I've been to a few, and this isn't it, at least based on last night. Admittedly, this was a Wednesday, but the reality is thgat my other experience with strip bars has been mid week as well.

There were a couple of really nice looking girls, some 8s and 9 s to me at least, certainly nothing more than that. I've seen as good or better in other venues, at least to me!

Having said that, it's a nice place where there is no pressure and the girls don't have any either! By that I mean, they feel no pressure AT ALL to put on a show of any kind! I've honestly NEVER been to a strip joint with less enthusiasm overall.

So I had three private dances. One was with the lone 8-9. Nice dance, felt and kissed her boobs and fingered her a little, but she spoke no English so I couldn't negotiate a deal to go home. Dance two was really with the hottest one of the group, but she fell short because she was shorter, about 5'6 I'm guessing. Totally hot, though. Still no go with going home! Last dance was a *****, no kissing to speak of, waste of time. Pretty good body, but when you take the three best girls in the place and you're already into the 7s and 8s what can you say? Not world class at all!

I've done Mamba and the women are mediocre at best. My best success is with local honeys that need a little spending dough. I have one sleeping here right now. 500 UAH and she does anything I want. Maybe a 5-6 by Kiev standards, but no hassles and she'll suck me dry and come back for more for the price of filling up an SUV in the states.

Anyway, I have been to a LOT of strip clubs, and this one (Rio) didn't cut it on this night. Not to say it wouldn't on some other night, but not now, and I've been to several strip clubs that NEVER disappointed, didn't matter the night.

SO my advice is try to stay more than a day or 2, spend a couple of weeks if you can, flirt on line a little, and you'll get it cheaper and (IMO) better and longer. Just my two cents!

Insomniaque
06-10-11, 09:21
BTW anybody know who this girl is in the video, reminds me of the hotties here in this forum.

http://www.badjojo.com/1103279/ria-sex-on-camera-1327mins/The first one to get nailed is Angelica Black.

http://www.adultfilmdatabase.com/actor/black-angelica-45332/

I don't know the second girl.

FYI Angelica Black is also availabe for us mongers. Seemingly she is not making enough money with movies only, so she is also working in an escort agency (under the name "Elena") :

http://www.x-companion.com/wm.asp?T=LG7d58Vk90:06102011095843AM:082245234062:1:XC:0:US&TP=0

My, what a greedy girl. =)

LilJoey
06-10-11, 10:05
Yes, some have probably been answered. I'll be honest and tell you that, while I appreciate everyone's experience, what I value most is that you are willing to give immediate advice without forcing me through reams of data, much of which is useless to me personally. Thank you in advance for your expertise!

I DID look, just for the record, and saw your post about putting the money on the table, etc. I DID do exactly as you suggested, and it didn't work. She left. Not saying it happens every time. Obviously not for you. But it DID happen to me that way, and I'm pretty sure others who use Mamba will also get that experience. So maybe the difference was in the type of service? In the event, I did use the same Mamba escort service, paid up front, and got what I wanted, so it's all good.

Yes, you'll find a VERY SMALL number at 400 UAH, but that will be for basic service which is not my own personal requirement. And I doubt based on what I've heard here so far that anyone on these boards would be satisfied with what you get for under 400UAH. Certainly not getting good service from a 7 at that rate, IMO, unless you're OK with a ho-hum condom ride.

FYI, this isn't a "trip" for me. I live here, a point I thought I had made earlier. Maybe not. Now you know. I went by Buddha Bar and Arena today at 2PM. No one there at all. I'm sure this comes as no surprise, just trying to add to the information here. Arena. Ditto. I'll check out some other clubs and let you all know as I scope them out (what's with the "Red Lion"?). And yes, thanks for the wishes of good luck and I DO really appreciate the time you took to respond! Dear KievGuy.

Much of what I will write in this post is for the benefit of all readers, but it is also responsive to you in what you should pursue. But first let's go over the basics again, since you wrote,"I DID do exactly as you suggested, and it didn't work. She left." If I understand what you are saying, you told her that you are only willing to put the money on the table for her to take only when she leaves at the end of the session, and that she rejected this suggestion and demanded payment up front. At this moment you always have a choice. You can cave in to her demands to pay her up front, OR you can let her go.

At this moment of choice the strategy has already worked, in that it has served its purpose to provide you with information. It has revealed her mindset as a girl who is highly worried about getting the money up front into her purse. The girls with good faith should be satisfied that you are not a rip- off guy when you show them that you do have enough money available to pay them and that you are happy to place it out on the table for them to take at the end. If that is not enough for them, and they still insist on prepayment, then it raises the implication that their reason for insisting on prepayment is not just tied to their fear of getting ripped off by you, and there is more likelihood that it is because they do not intend to perform as promised. In which case it might be more prudent not take a chance to session with them.

However, the strategy itself doesn't demand you choose either course. It is merely a tool to reveal the girl's mindset. You can go either way. But now you can make your decision with an additional bit of information that indicates she is a bad risk. Now obviously it wasn't proven for sure that she will definitely rip you off. There is merely an implication indicating a likelihood that she will. Of course, there is also a possibility that the opposite will occur, and once you prove your good faith and give her the money up front and you are charming and she likes you, she may ultimately give you a good session, and you may be lucky. So you can either take the prudent non-risk course of letting her go, or you can decide to roll the dice and see what happens. I too have many times decided to take the risk and proceeded with the session in similar circumstances, relying on my charming and humorous personality and awesome DATY skills. LOL. To charm and pleasure her into reciprocating with a good session, and despite the possibility she harbored negative intentions originally. Sometimes I have been lucky and sometimes I have lost the gamble. Live and learn.

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR LONG TERM MONGERING

Now, since you are living in Kiev for an extended period, YOU are in the best position to find all the best options. Here is a link to my recent post that contains a survey of the Kiev options in the latter half of the report:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1162052#post1162052

In that post I collected, summarized and reviewed the information I had available to me from this thread and from my own experiences in my recent trips to Kiev on the following topics:

1. Strip clubs that have take out.

2. Nightclubs / bars that routinely have lots of Working Girls (WG's)

3. Internet advertisements for escorts.

4. Girl apartments.

5. Street action

You are in a unique position to pick up on these points and advance the information bank that we have developed on this thread because you have at your disposal what I did not have. TIME!

Time factors caused me to neglect girl apartments and street action options, and to limit my evenings to going to strip clubs like Rio and my days to some of the internet options. I was not able to make any appreciable investigation of the other possibilities in Kiev, but if I had more time there, I would certainly have wanted to check these options out more thoroughly.

My own decision to focus on Rio was based on cost factors and time—efficiency factors. The internet websites were full of bait and switch fake pictures, and girls who were not good looking were being repeatedly sent to my door from mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com, involving collosal waste of time in finding a good girl that way. Therefore, I preferred a method which allowed me to check the girls out in the flesh and see them before I chose, which was either nightclubs or Rio strip club. (Rio had a $300 take out option, whereas other strip clubs had been reported as having a $400 price). I felt Rio strip club represented the quickest way to find the very top level hot girls (9's and 10's only were of interest to me) in the shortest most efficient amount of time, and for the lowest cost currently available for such 9's and 10's. Rio's $100 / hr rates were better than the nightclubs in town, where the asking prices for the top looking girls (the 9's and 10's) had been reported on this thread to be much higher than $100 per hour. Also Rio provided a forum where the girls were all gathered in one place and it was much quicker to find what I was looking for than looking all over town in various nightclubs, where I would first have to differentiate between the regular girls and those who were "Working Girls" (WG's) and then try to talk to those who I found appealing and find out what their rates / services were. Even so, at first I tried two nightclubs, Avalon and Buddha Bar, but I didn't see any significant WG presence at the time of my visit, and that clinched my decision to not waste further time on the nightclubs options, and I focused on Rio for the evenings. Also Rio provided a way of messing around with a girl in a private dance to see what the physical chemistry might be like, which couldn't be done in a nightclub setting. The street options seemed like they would demand more time than I had to develop something. I also didn't pursue the girl apartments option during my last two trips because I had decided instead to use my day times to try a few girls from internet websites and there was only so much time available.

You, however, are not limited in time. And therefore you can afford to be more methodical in your investigations of the best Kiev options. You have indicated your preference for an uncovered BJ, but I don't know what your preferences are in terms of the looks of the girls. For my Kiev adventures, I was only looking for spectacular girls who were 9's or 10's, because a regular fuck with a nice girl I can get back at home. However, there are many guys on this thread who are deliriously happy to fuck with a nice—looking, slim, fit, doable girl who they got to have sex with for very cheap, like $50 or $60. So the focus you should take, will depend in part on what you are aiming for. To simply have an interesting and active sex-life and fuck some young decent looking student girls for cheap . Or are you looking to score some spectacular trophy fucks with very gorgeous model types of which dreams are made, for which purpose you may be willing to spend a little more,. Or a combination of both types of girls.

You should consider pursuing the following options:

1) GIRL APARTMENTS: Since you have the time, I would thoroughly "investigate and document" the girls apartments options. I believe this is where the Ukrainian guys go to get off. When I say "document" I mean to record and later to report on this thread the details about the addresses of the apartments, the prices, the services available, your opinion about the looks of the girls, etc. As I mentioned in previous posts, I located a taxi driver in downtown Kiev who said he knew places with girls, and I hired him to take me and go with me to such places until I could find what I wanted. I am sure you can locate such a driver who speaks a little English and make a similar deal with him to hire him for a set number of hours to take you to a bunch of apartments and stay with you so he can translate and provide some security for you in this endeavor. I also recommended that if you don't speak Russian, to prepare a list of prices and questions about services you may want to ask in 'yes' or 'no' format using an online language translator such as www.translate.google.com. This way you can simply point to your list for the girl to read the item you pointed to and respond either yes or no. It will probably be difficult to get the really low prices Ukrainian guys pay and avoid the different pricing they apply to foreigners. It would also be worthwhile trying to find out where such apartments advertise, if they do, in local papers or the like. Then we could use such resources to investigate more of the apartments than the taxi driver might know about.

2.) STREET ACTION: Since you have the time, I would also think that you might put some time into trying to meet girls on the street, or in stores around downtown, as is being recommended by a number of writers on this forum. As many times as I have encouraged those guys who promote this approach to write about their experiences IN DETAIL so that others might benefit, they have failed to do so yet. So if you try, please write what you think about how to do this and how to select the girl to approach, where to do this best, how to successfully approach, how to avoid an embarrassing situation of propositioning a girl who is not a WG, what to say, how to lead the conversation, how to get the girl into your apartment, how to get things to the next level, how to make the first sexual move, or anything that could help guys of middle age who haven't been engaged in picking up young girls from the street for many years, get a better idea on how to do this.

3.) NIGHTCLUBS: There is also a great lack of in depth reporting about the nightclub scene. When I went to the Buddha Bar fro 10:30pm – 12, I did not see many working girls there and reported this. Others on this forum said maybe I had gone there too early, so I guess if you didn't see WG's in the places you visited at 2pm in the afternoon, it's also because it was too early for a WG presence. I intended to try Buddha Bar again at some point after midnight. I also tried Avalon and found nothing interesting there one night, so I went right away to nearby Rio strip club. But I have read reports about D'lux nightclub indicating many girls there who are working. Since you are in Kiev for an extended period you might want to identify all the nightclubs listed previously on this thread as good places for girls, and try them one by one, and report about the number of WG's you saw at each, their quality level of looks, the prices they asked etc.

4.) INTERNET GIRLS: the advantage here is the relatively cheap prices of 400, 600 or 800 UAH per hour (that's $50, $75 or $100) advertised for some internet girls. But if you don't like the situation of having to wait to see if the girl who shows up looks decent, then stick to the street action options or the girl apartments.

Mamba. Ru. The ads on mamba. Ru are too much in flux, (girls or agencies suddenly deleting profiles frequently and replacing them under new names, and girls or agencies using multiple duplicate profiles under different names) , for there to be much success in systematizing any reporting on girls there. It seems it is really a matter of luck for each monger. So you should join the rest of us and try your luck. Just know in advance that you will be wasting a lot of time because often a girl who looks nothing like the photo will show up and she will not be good looking enough. So you will need to send away the girls who show up who don't appeal to you looks—wise and hope that you will ultimately luck out and meet some girls who are appealing to you. Then after you session with a hottie that showed up by miracle, you should ask for their personal contact information and develop your own list of girls who you can call upon when the 'need' arises. It seems that most guys on this thread who do find a good looking prostitute in this fashion have decided not to share such contact info with others, which is a natural impulse, as I guess they don't want their 'girl' to become over—used and poked by every other guy on this forum, which in light of the girl's chosen profession is a little silly, but that's the way it is. So each guy will have to develop his own contacts. You might as well start the process as soon as you can. In a place like Kiev, it is only a matter of time before a hot girl shows up from an internet ad.

Top—modals. Com – same advice as for mamba. Ru girls. Keep trying as you will ultimately get someone good—looking enough showing up for a low enough price. There used to be some girls on the top—modals. Com website who actually existed and did use 'real photos' as the site claims. I met two of them two years ago, and they have been my back—up girls ever since then. They are not beauties, but are above—average looking sexy girls who give a good GFE session. I don't know what's the website's status now. On my last trip this past April, I called several numbers during the daytime, but got no one who spoke English despite the ad stating that the girl spoke English, which of course indicates I was dealing with an agency.

There are many other agencies with ads for escorts for reasonable prices that might as well be added to the list of the bait and switch agencies that should nevertheless be used, in the hope that at some point they will send a decent enough looking girl that you will not have to send away. I reported on my attempts at using www.uadreamescort.com On my last trip. They first sent a girl who didn't measure up. Ultimately a good looking girl was sent.

The many internet agencies that advertise with prices of 150 Euro per hour, or 200 Euro per hour are too high priced, even if the girl looks like the pictures on the website, as there exists the option of Rio with rates of $100 per hour. But if those agencies will agree for a 3 hour rate of $300, similar to Rio, I guess they can be tried, if that is within your budget. I actually tried the www.vodkaescorts.com Based on that analysis, since they agreed to a $300/3hours rate for my appointments with Julia and Inna of that website, about which I reported previously.

Good Luck, and remember to report what you discover.

LJ

DoctorOral
06-10-11, 11:54
And how she proved to be right:

On flirt. Com.

Hello, Englishman!

How are you?

Hi are you in Kiev now?

"I know oral.

I am good suker"

And yes, alas,

She is so right!

KievGuy
06-11-11, 09:36
Dear KievGuy.

Much of what I will write in this post is for the benefit of all readers, but it is also responsive to you in what you should pursue. But first let's go over the basics again, since you wrote,"I DID do exactly as you suggested, and it didn't work. She left." If I understand what you are saying, you told her that you are only willing to put the money on the table for her to take only when she leaves at the end of the session, and that she rejected this suggestion and demanded payment up front. At this moment you always have a choice. You can cave in to her demands to pay her up front, OR you can let her go.

At this moment of choice the strategy has already worked, in that it has served its purpose to provide you with information. It has revealed her mindset as a girl who is highly worried about getting the money up front into her purse. The girls with good faith should be satisfied that you are not a rip- off guy when you show them that you do have enough money available to pay them and that you are happy to place it out on the table for them to take at the end. If that is not enough for them, and they still insist on prepayment, then it raises the implication that their reason for insisting on prepayment is not just tied to their fear of getting ripped off by you, and there is more likelihood that it is because they do not intend to perform as promised. In which case it might be more prudent not take a chance to session with them.

However, the strategy itself doesn't demand you choose either course. It is merely a tool to reveal the girl's mindset. You can go either way. But now you can make your decision with an additional bit of information that indicates she is a bad risk. Now obviously it wasn't proven for sure that she will definitely rip you off. There is merely an implication indicating a likelihood that she will. Of course, there is also a possibility that the opposite will occur, and once you prove your good faith and give her the money up front and you are charming and she likes you, she may ultimately give you a good session, and you may be lucky. So you can either take the prudent non-risk course of letting her go, or you can decide to roll the dice and see what happens. I too have many times decided to take the risk and proceeded with the session in similar circumstances, relying on my charming and humorous personality and awesome DATY skills. LOL. To charm and pleasure her into reciprocating with a good session, and despite the possibility she harbored negative intentions originally. Sometimes I have been lucky and sometimes I have lost the gamble. Live and learn.

RECOMMENDATIONS FOR LONG TERM MONGERING

Now, since you are living in Kiev for an extended period, YOU are in the best position to find all the best options. Here is a link to my recent post that contains a survey of the Kiev options in the latter half of the report:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1162052#post1162052

In that post I collected, summarized and reviewed the information I had available to me from this thread and from my own experiences in my recent trips to Kiev on the following topics:

1. Strip clubs that have take out.

2. Nightclubs / bars that routinely have lots of Working Girls (WG's)

3. Internet advertisements for escorts.

4. Girl apartments.

5. Street action

You are in a unique position to pick up on these points and advance the information bank that we have developed on this thread because you have at your disposal what I did not have. TIME!

Time factors caused me to neglect girl apartments and street action options, and to limit my evenings to going to strip clubs like Rio and my days to some of the internet options. I was not able to make any appreciable investigation of the other possibilities in Kiev, but if I had more time there, I would certainly have wanted to check these options out more thoroughly.

My own decision to focus on Rio was based on cost factors and time—efficiency factors. The internet websites were full of bait and switch fake pictures, and girls who were not good looking were being repeatedly sent to my door from mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com, involving collosal waste of time in finding a good girl that way. Therefore, I preferred a method which allowed me to check the girls out in the flesh and see them before I chose, which was either nightclubs or Rio strip club. (Rio had a $300 take out option, whereas other strip clubs had been reported as having a $400 price). I felt Rio strip club represented the quickest way to find the very top level hot girls (9's and 10's only were of interest to me) in the shortest most efficient amount of time, and for the lowest cost currently available for such 9's and 10's. Rio's $100 / hr rates were better than the nightclubs in town, where the asking prices for the top looking girls (the 9's and 10's) had been reported on this thread to be much higher than $100 per hour. Also Rio provided a forum where the girls were all gathered in one place and it was much quicker to find what I was looking for than looking all over town in various nightclubs, where I would first have to differentiate between the regular girls and those who were "Working Girls" (WG's) and then try to talk to those who I found appealing and find out what their rates / services were. Even so, at first I tried two nightclubs, Avalon and Buddha Bar, but I didn't see any significant WG presence at the time of my visit, and that clinched my decision to not waste further time on the nightclubs options, and I focused on Rio for the evenings. Also Rio provided a way of messing around with a girl in a private dance to see what the physical chemistry might be like, which couldn't be done in a nightclub setting. The street options seemed like they would demand more time than I had to develop something. I also didn't pursue the girl apartments option during my last two trips because I had decided instead to use my day times to try a few girls from internet websites and there was only so much time available.

You, however, are not limited in time. And therefore you can afford to be more methodical in your investigations of the best Kiev options. You have indicated your preference for an uncovered BJ, but I don't know what your preferences are in terms of the looks of the girls. For my Kiev adventures, I was only looking for spectacular girls who were 9's or 10's, because a regular fuck with a nice girl I can get back at home. However, there are many guys on this thread who are deliriously happy to fuck with a nice—looking, slim, fit, doable girl who they got to have sex with for very cheap, like $50 or $60. So the focus you should take, will depend in part on what you are aiming for. To simply have an interesting and active sex-life and fuck some young decent looking student girls for cheap. Or are you looking to score some spectacular trophy fucks with very gorgeous model types of which dreams are made, for which purpose you may be willing to spend a little more. Or a combination of both types of girls.

You should consider pursuing the following options:

1) GIRL APARTMENTS: Since you have the time, I would thoroughly "investigate and document" the girls apartments options. I believe this is where the Ukrainian guys go to get off. When I say "document" I mean to record and later to report on this thread the details about the addresses of the apartments, the prices, the services available, your opinion about the looks of the girls, etc. As I mentioned in previous posts, I located a taxi driver in downtown Kiev who said he knew places with girls, and I hired him to take me and go with me to such places until I could find what I wanted. I am sure you can locate such a driver who speaks a little English and make a similar deal with him to hire him for a set number of hours to take you to a bunch of apartments and stay with you so he can translate and provide some security for you in this endeavor. I also recommended that if you don't speak Russian, to prepare a list of prices and questions about services you may want to ask in 'yes' or 'no' format using an online language translator such as.

www.translate.google.com

This way you can simply point to your list for the girl to read the item you pointed to and respond either yes or no. It will probably be difficult to get the really low prices Ukrainian guys pay and avoid the different pricing they apply to foreigners. It would also be worthwhile trying to find out where such apartments advertise, if they do, in local papers or the like. Then we could use such resources to investigate more of the apartments than the taxi driver might know about.

2.) STREET ACTION: Since you have the time, I would also think that you might put some time into trying to meet girls on the street, or in stores around downtown, as is being recommended by a number of writers on this forum. As many times as I have encouraged those guys who promote this approach to write about their experiences IN DETAIL so that others might benefit, they have failed to do so yet. So if you try, please write what you think about how to do this and how to select the girl to approach, where to do this best, how to successfully approach, how to avoid an embarrassing situation of propositioning a girl who is not a WG, what to say, how to lead the conversation, how to get the girl into your apartment, how to get things to the next level, how to make the first sexual move, or anything that could help guys of middle age who haven't been engaged in picking up young girls from the street for many years, get a better idea on how to do this.

3.) NIGHTCLUBS: There is also a great lack of in depth reporting about the nightclub scene. When I went to the Buddha Bar fro 10:30pm – 12, I did not see many working girls there and reported this. Others on this forum said maybe I had gone there too early, so I guess if you didn't see WG's in the places you visited at 2pm in the afternoon, it's also because it was too early for a WG presence. I intended to try Buddha Bar again at some point after midnight. I also tried Avalon and found nothing interesting there one night, so I went right away to nearby Rio strip club. But I have read reports about D'lux nightclub indicating many girls there who are working. Since you are in Kiev for an extended period you might want to identify all the nightclubs listed previously on this thread as good places for girls, and try them one by one, and report about the number of WG's you saw at each, their quality level of looks, the prices they asked etc.

4.) INTERNET GIRLS: the advantage here is the relatively cheap prices of 400, 600 or 800 UAH per hour (that's $50, $75 or $100) advertised for some internet girls. But if you don't like the situation of having to wait to see if the girl who shows up looks decent, then stick to the street action options or the girl apartments.

Mamba. Ru. The ads on mamba. Ru are too much in flux, (girls or agencies suddenly deleting profiles frequently and replacing them under new names, and girls or agencies using multiple duplicate profiles under different names) , for there to be much success in systematizing any reporting on girls there. It seems it is really a matter of luck for each monger. So you should join the rest of us and try your luck. Just know in advance that you will be wasting a lot of time because often a girl who looks nothing like the photo will show up and she will not be good looking enough. So you will need to send away the girls who show up who don't appeal to you looks—wise and hope that you will ultimately luck out and meet some girls who are appealing to you. Then after you session with a hottie that showed up by miracle, you should ask for their personal contact information and develop your own list of girls who you can call upon when the 'need' arises. It seems that most guys on this thread who do find a good looking prostitute in this fashion have decided not to share such contact info with others, which is a natural impulse, as I guess they don't want their 'girl' to become over—used and poked by every other guy on this forum, which in light of the girl's chosen profession is a little silly, but that's the way it is. So each guy will have to develop his own contacts. You might as well start the process as soon as you can. In a place like Kiev, it is only a matter of time before a hot girl shows up from an internet ad.

Top—modals. Com – same advice as for mamba. Ru girls. Keep trying as you will ultimately get someone good—looking enough showing up for a low enough price. There used to be some girls on the top—modals. Com website who actually existed and did use 'real photos' as the site claims. I met two of them two years ago, and they have been my back—up girls ever since then. They are not beauties, but are above—average looking sexy girls who give a good GFE session. I don't know what's the website's status now. On my last trip this past April, I called several numbers during the daytime, but got no one who spoke English despite the ad stating that the girl spoke English, which of course indicates I was dealing with an agency.

There are many other agencies with ads for escorts for reasonable prices that might as well be added to the list of the bait and switch agencies that should nevertheless be used, in the hope that at some point they will send a decent enough looking girl that you will not have to send away. I reported on my attempts at using.

www.uadreamescort.com

On my last trip. They first sent a girl who didn't measure up. Ultimately a good looking girl was sent.

The many internet agencies that advertise with prices of 150 Euro per hour, or 200 Euro per hour are too high priced, even if the girl looks like the pictures on the website, as there exists the option of Rio with rates of $100 per hour. But if those agencies will agree for a 3 hour rate of $300, similar to Rio, I guess they can be tried, if that is within your budget. I actually tried the.

www.vodkaescorts.com

Based on that analysis, since they agreed to a $300/3hours rate for my appointments with Julia and Inna of that website, about which I reported previously.

Good Luck, and remember to report what you discover.

LJI will try to report back when I have something useful to say, but in the meantime thanks for your VERY detailed response!

I am very busy right now with women, but no overt WG's (other than what I have previously reported).

I have a 24 year old who is a mid 5 by Kiev standards who started out as a freebie that I had to wine and dine and has morphed into a girl I've worked out an agreement with to do me for 500 UAH per session. The advantage is I no longer take her shopping or wine and dine so there's no time or money wasted any longer on the dating process and of course the uncertainty of knowing whether you'll get laid. The disadvantage is it's probably costing me a little more money, but the uncertainty is removed and I DO get the GFE. She always stays with me and spends the night and she always brings some sexy outfit along at my request. Plus she isn't out doing every horny guy on a website like this. I know she can't because she simply doesn't have the time. She works in the day at a legitimate job and she sees me when it would be prime time to maximize her income by doing multiple guys. So I'm pretty happy with the arrangement. BTW, I'm the one who actually brought up the idea of paying outright for the sex after she asked me for money for "dental work" after a weekend about. She agreed immediately. We have a little on line sex chat while she's at work and it's all good. Only disadvantage is she's a 5-6. Nice looking, pretty girl, tall enough, but no tits and showing just a little too much tummy. But certainly not fat even by Kiev standards!

Last night I met a girl when she got off work from the coffee shop across the street. I met her when I was downstairs struggling through the process of buying fresh fruit from a local vendor and she offered her help while she was on her smoke break. I got her number and like I said took her drinking. We ended up at my apartment but she would only kiss me and that was that. She stayed until 3 AM and I paid 50UAH to get her a cab home. I want to see her again because she isn't a WG. About a 7 by Kiev standards. Tall, blonde, pretty, nice boobs, slim. But smokes and has a 9 year old son. So nothing for the long haul maybe, but worth some time and effort. This doesn't help you guys, but the reality is if you're just looking for a regular non-WG for sex it's like anywhere else, whether in the USA or otherwise. Unless you're off the charts good looking or suave or very lucky, it won't happen on day one and probably not on date two either. You'll have to put some real effort into it over a few days at least and if you don't have that kind of time you're better off just sticking with the WGs and not have meeting random locals as part of a strategy but rather just hope by luck you might run into one and if not-that's not why you're here anyway, right? You're here for the working girls!

Today I will see a girl who I met online who looks great in her pictures and is an 7. 5-8. 5 by my standards from the pix. We started out just chatting but it quickly became evident she wanted money after a few DAYS of banter and one broken promise to see me. I'm not sure where she fits in. If she were a true WG she wouldn't have wasted her time. I think the site I was on would discourage outright sex for sale and so she has to be a little coy in her online approach. Still this is a different breed perhaps. She says she has a regular job. I think she's in need of extra money but wants to vet her clients a little more and doesn't want to spend the night with 3 different guys. She's agreed online to 1000UAH for the GFE and 2 hours. But has twice NOT showed up when we had something set up. So maybe she found someone before our date who would pay more, or she really did have the phone / mother problems she said she did, but either way if you're only in town for a day or 2 you simply can't afford this kind of crap. I don't mind because hey, I live here! I am giving her another shot tonight. Since it's a Saturday and would presumably be her best chance for making dough I think she's probably NOt a full time WG and I base that on her rate as well. IF she shows up tonight it will prove I am right, as no WG will do anything for that price that approaches a GFE, especially one as ostensibly good looking as she is! I think we'll just call her a local girl who wants some extra $ but wants to limit the number of men and wants decent guys. So she's willing to accept a little less money and maybe she hopes something lasting may come of it, I don't know.

In an hour I will meet a girl at the Hydropark so I must go now. 6-7, but with kids and 34 years old. I'll see hwat she's like in her bikini today! Took her out to lunch last week and she's got great English and actually operates a service that introduces foreign men to Kiev's delights! She acts as a kind of sex tour guide that steers men to the best massage parlors and clubs and strip joints for an up front fee. Interesting.

Sunday I am set up with another girl more legit than the rest. No time now for more. See 'ya

Me and You
06-11-11, 13:16
I was in Club Rio evening before yesterday. Entry 100-150 grivna I don't remember. Girls dance on pole then direclt they give a lap dance on clients there on turn. You tip everytime 50 grivna and you can refuse the girl if you want mentioning to her before she comes to you and she go to another tables.

For private dance 200 grivnabut I didn't try, there is take away as I talked with 1 girls during a drink.

$ 200 for an hour in the place if you want.

$ 300 for 2 hours out.

$ 400 for the night. Any time until 6 clock morning. Closing time.

Girls looks are 7-8 may be one or 2 were 9. Their number around 12-15 girls. The girls told me on the week ends more girls and may be more options.

Usually I am not interested in night sex. I prefer short time. Am hour and maximum 2 hours. (just in case of emergency and no choice I tried once Rio and was good expereince. That was my last visit to Kiev). Better to invest little money then if you have good experience then you can extend or repeat it in another time.

Yesterday I had a super 3 some experience with lezbi show action for more than one hour and haff for 1200 grivna with and 8 and a 9+ girls. Looking them while showering then a lonig bbj by 2 girls one on balls and the other one dick. And 69 while the other is doing oral. Then hard fucking and lezbi while I was watching and there were into it. They were licking each other pussy. Then I do one doing while she was doing DATY the other one. And finally cim to bot h while they finishes me. A super experience for small money. I will repeat with the 9+ girl. Alone. She

Could bea top girl in Rio (she was working in agency that quoting 160 $ for an hour)

Good luck all.

[QUOTE=Wallyally; 1164642]And how she proved to be right:

On flirt. Com.

LilJoey
06-11-11, 20:29
I have a 24 year old who is a mid 5 by Kiev standards who started out as a freebie that I had to wine and dine and has morphed into a girl I've worked out an agreement with to do me for 500 UAH per session. Only disadvantage is she's a 5-6. Nice looking, pretty girl, tall enough, but no tits and showing just a little too much tummy. But certainly not fat even by Kiev standards!

Last night I met a girl when she got off work from the coffee shop across the street. We ended up at my apartment but she would only kiss me and that was that. About a 7 by Kiev standards. Tall, blonde, pretty, nice boobs, slim. But smokes and has a 9 year old son.

This doesn't help you guys, but the reality is if you're just looking for a regular non-WG for sex it's like anywhere else, whether in the USA or otherwise. Unless you're off the charts good looking or suave or very lucky, it won't happen on day one and probably not on date two either. You'll have to put some real effort into it over a few days at least and if you don't have that kind of time you're better off just sticking with the WGs and not have meeting random locals as part of a strategy but rather just hope by luck you might run into one and if not-that's not why you're here anyway, right? You're here for the working girls!

Today I will see a girl who I met online who looks great in her pictures and is an 7. 5-8. 5 by my standards from the pix. She's agreed online to 1000UAH for the GFE and 2 hours. But has twice NOT showed up when we had something set up. IF she shows up tonight it will prove I am right, as no WG will do anything for that price that approaches a GFE, especially one as ostensibly good looking as she is!

In an hour I will meet a girl at the Hydropark so I must go now. 6-7, but with kids and 34 years old. I'll see hwat she's like in her bikini today! Took her out to lunch last week and she's got great English and actually operates a service that introduces foreign men to Kiev's delights! She acts as a kind of sex tour guide that steers men to the best massage parlors and clubs and strip joints for an up front fee. Interesting.

Sunday I am set up with another girl more legit than the rest. No time now for more. See 'yaSounds like you are tolerant of having sex with girls who are mid-range in looks and low priced. Also sounds like you are having plenty of fun with street interactions, but you are pursuing them as freebies. Based on that, there is probably no need for you to go to the expense entailed in pursuing expensive strip club and nightclub working girls. Your preferred venues would therefore be the street, expanding your internet interactions, and exploring what you can find in the girl apartments. By the way, the "single mother with a kid or two to support" is the usual profile world-over for girls willing to put out for the extra cash they need.

STREET STRATEGY.

There are many posters on this thread who have claimed to be able to pick up girls from the street for money.

I guess the question that occurs to me is, how does one discern whether a girl one meets on the street is open to an offer of money for sex? How is this best done? Obviously, one wants to avoid propositioning a regular non-working girl with an offer of sex for money, and all the embarrasment that might ensue from that.

Does one simply pursue it as a freeebie, and date the girl in the usual way until she is up in one's apartment, and make a move in the usual way, and it's a freebie, unless the girl raises the issue of money on her own? If so, there is a serious limitation in this for older guys (40+) for whom it might be difficult to start pursuing 18. 22 year old girls on the street as freebies.

But if there some other way to sniff out if a girl might be receptive to receiving money for her favors, and an embarrasing situation can be avoided, then there is no impediment to an older guy making an offer also.

So for you street experts out there who have been writing and claiming your street conquests on this forum of $60 for a beautiful girl. Perhaps you will explain how it is done?

KievGuy
06-12-11, 00:04
Sounds like you are tolerant of having sex with girls who are mid-range in looks and low priced. Also sounds like you are having plenty of fun with street interactions, but you are pursuing them as freebies. Based on that, there is probably no need for you to go to the expense entailed in pursuing expensive strip club and nightclub working girls. Your preferred venues would therefore be the street, expanding your internet interactions, and exploring what you can find in the girl apartments. By the way, the "single mother with a kid or two to support" is the usual profile world-over for girls willing to put out for the extra cash they need.

STREET STRATEGY.

There are many posters on this thread who have claimed to be able to pick up girls from the street for money.

I guess the question that occurs to me is, how does one discern whether a girl one meets on the street is open to an offer of money for sex? How is this best done? Obviously, one wants to avoid propositioning a regular non-working girl with an offer of sex for money, and all the embarrasment that might ensue from that.

Does one simply pursue it as a freeebie, and date the girl in the usual way until she is up in one's apartment, and make a move in the usual way, and it's a freebie, unless the girl raises the issue of money on her own? If so, there is a serious limitation in this for older guys (40+) for whom it might be difficult to start pursuing 18. 22 year old girls on the street as freebies.

But if there some other way to sniff out if a girl might be receptive to receiving money for her favors, and an embarrasing situation can be avoided, then there is no impediment to an older guy making an offer also.

So for you street experts out there who have been writing and claiming your street conquests on this forum of $60 for a beautiful girl. Perhaps you will explain how it is done? OK, tonight I went out looking on K street. They're really not hard to spot. For one, they're sitting on a park bench at 1 in the morning. But they're not alone, which makes it weird. SO I walk past with my cell phone to my ear speaking English and look back at them. If they wave, you're on! But I don't have anyone here tonight. Why? The two I was speaking to only operated as a pair. The cost was $200, which I didn't mind since they said 2-3 hours and would do basically anything. But while one was a truly young and very good looking girl maybe an 8 + in the face the other one looked like her fat babushka and wanted to hang out while I was shagging her daughter. So, no.

O'Briens had a very hot 7. 5-8. 5 tall girl that was off work from Rio. She wanted $500 initially but came down to $300 after a little negotiation. Turned her down because that was not the GFE I wanted with cum swallow.

So nothing tonight, and my date this afternoon was a total waste. Went out in the middle of nowhere to some shitty little town.

Wait! Just got a call from the girl who I suspect is only at most a part time WG and she is coming over. We'll see how it goes!

KievGuy
06-12-11, 00:10
Sounds like you are tolerant of having sex with girls who are mid-range in looks and low priced. Also sounds like you are having plenty of fun with street interactions, but you are pursuing them as freebies. Based on that, there is probably no need for you to go to the expense entailed in pursuing expensive strip club and nightclub working girls. Your preferred venues would therefore be the street, expanding your internet interactions, and exploring what you can find in the girl apartments. By the way, the "single mother with a kid or two to support" is the usual profile world-over for girls willing to put out for the extra cash they need.

STREET STRATEGY.

There are many posters on this thread who have claimed to be able to pick up girls from the street for money.

I guess the question that occurs to me is, how does one discern whether a girl one meets on the street is open to an offer of money for sex? How is this best done? Obviously, one wants to avoid propositioning a regular non-working girl with an offer of sex for money, and all the embarrasment that might ensue from that.

Does one simply pursue it as a freeebie, and date the girl in the usual way until she is up in one's apartment, and make a move in the usual way, and it's a freebie, unless the girl raises the issue of money on her own? If so, there is a serious limitation in this for older guys (40+) for whom it might be difficult to start pursuing 18. 22 year old girls on the street as freebies.

But if there some other way to sniff out if a girl might be receptive to receiving money for her favors, and an embarrasing situation can be avoided, then there is no impediment to an older guy making an offer also.

So for you street experts out there who have been writing and claiming your street conquests on this forum of $60 for a beautiful girl. Perhaps you will explain how it is done? BTW, I DO want to have sex with the 8-9s and am willing to pay $300 for it (though not on a regular basis). But I do not speak Russian and that has been part of the issue and the other part is I want the whole GFE including DCIM. I couldn't find any that will do that in Rio, but I will try Red Lion tomorrow. I went there tonight. 100UAH cover (stay away from the rip off 200UAH for Arena) , but really it was so late I figured my best strategy was to ply the streets.

You know the rest of THAT story, and now I'm waiting for a hottie to show up!

Gergiev
06-12-11, 03:05
In an hour I will meet a girl at the Hydropark so I must go now. 6-7, but with kids and 34 years old. I'll see hwat she's like in her bikini today! Took her out to lunch last week and she's got great English and actually operates a service that introduces foreign men to Kiev's delights! She acts as a kind of sex tour guide that steers men to the best massage parlors and clubs and strip joints for an up front fee. Interesting.KievGuy,

Nice report, well done.

Would be interesting to know the name or web-site of this sex tour company.

VG.

Zinda
06-12-11, 03:31
Can anyone suggest apartment in a good Kiev location?

Thanks

ErickMorsa
06-12-11, 05:49
Hello, guys, does anybody knows or have tryed this web page:

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/

There is a search were are adds of girls from Kiev, also, need to be member to have the contacts of the girls posted there.

If nobody have tryed I will check any way, and will maintain informed.

Sponsor74
06-12-11, 10:03
BTW, I DO want to have sex with the 8-9s and am willing to pay $300 for it (though not on a regular basis). But I do not speak Russian and that has been part of the issue and the other part is I want the whole GFE including DCIM. I couldn't find any that will do that in Rio, but I will try Red Lion tomorrow. I went there tonight. 100UAH cover (stay away from the rip off 200UAH for Arena) , but really it was so late I figured my best strategy was to ply the streets.

You know the rest of THAT story, and now I'm waiting for a hottie to show up! I have ben in Kiev 1 year ago and see some nice girls in the main street (not all working girls) But I see here not too much information if this is the only stret with working girls or more details where exactly and updated information for my next trip this summer. Who can hel'?

KievGuy
06-12-11, 10:46
Hello, guys, does anybody knows or have tryed this web page:

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/

There is a search were are adds of girls from Kiev, also, need to be member to have the contacts of the girls posted there.

If nobody have tryed I will check any way, and will maintain informed. I NEVER pay money for ANY web site. You don't have to. Plenty already mentioned here that require no $. RIP OFF!

LilJoey
06-12-11, 17:56
OK, tonight I went out looking on K street. They're really not hard to spot. For one, they're sitting on a park bench at 1 in the morning. But they're not alone, which makes it weird. SO I walk past with my cell phone to my ear speaking English and look back at them. If they wave, you're on!KievGuy, that is a good suggestion, but it only covers the time period of the early AM hours after midnight when normal pedestrian traffic would be minimal, and so possible WG's stand out.

However, the guys on this forum who have been insisting that they can get beautiful girls for $60 off the street and stores in Kiev (Lukasek, Stevie69 and others) , have written that there are hundreds of beautiful girls to pick from on the streets of Kiev. So they cannot be talking about just a few girls sitting on a bench at 1 AM. They are talking about prime-time during the day and early evening hours when there are hundreds of girls out and about on K street and in the stores and malls.

What is needed here are some answers to the questions I posed on how it is possible to tell if a girl is a potential WG or semi-pro and how to lead the initial conversation toward the proposition of money for sex in order to get them into bed, without a long drawn out dating process?

The problem remains the same: One wants to avoid propositioning a regular non-working girl with an offer of sex for money and all the embarrasment that might ensue from that. If it simply amounts to trying to pick up girls with an approach that treats them as freebies, with no mention of money for sex, and simply wait for the girl to raise the issue of payment, and deal with it if and when she does. Then there is a serious limitation in this for older guys (40+ or 50+) for whom it might be difficult to start pursuing 18. 22 year old university-age girls on the street as freebies.

So I would ask again if there is some way you guys who have made these claims have devised, to sniff out, or figure out if a girl is a WG?

The answer to this question is important, because if one can know in advance somehow that a girl would be receptive to a proposition of sex for money, then it would be ok for an older guy to approach this girl too, and it would be safe to not waste time with the dating process (of taking their number, calling them for a date, having dinner, wining and dining them, etc, etc, and hoping on a future date to "get some" as is done universally world-over when dating a normal girl) and instead to get right to the proposition of going straight to your apartment for some fun. No waste of time.

Furthermore, the "Play Book" needs answers and descriptions of all the stages of this pursuit, which included, how to select the girl to approach, where to do this best, how to successfully approach, how to avoid an embarrassing situation of propositioning a girl who is not a WG, what to say, how to lead the conversation, how to get the girl into your apartment, how to get things to the next level, how to make the first sexual move, or anything that could help guys of middle age who haven't been engaged in picking up young girls from the street for many years, get a better idea on how to do this.

NOTE:

If it turns out, as the lack of any concrete or useful response on these questions is beginning to suggest, that girls on K street must all be approached and pursued in the normal way a guy picks up girls, I. E. As freebies, and it is for the girls to raise any money issue, then the readers here should know that the entire discussion of street girls as a practical alternative to getting girls from strip clubs or nightclubs was total BS. This is because of (a) the time factor, and (be) the age factor. The "freebie" from the street requires much more time to pursue and develop than may be available on a short weekend visit to Kiev (time-factor). And the pursuit of young university girls between the ages of 18 to early 20's (the ages of the strippers in Rio) would not so acceptably be done by guys who are way too old for them as normal prospective dates (age-factor). Therefore, although potentially much cheaper, young university-age girls from the "street" are not a practical alternative at all for guys who are 40+ and in town for a short visit, compared to getting a girl from Rio.

Of course, during daytimes when strip clubs and nightclubs are closed, guys who are 40+ can always spend some of their time trying to pick up, as freebies, women who appear to be more within the age of their socially acceptable "dating range", I. E. Women in their late 20's or 30's and who look hot, and maybe squeeze in a date during the time of one's visit to Kiev. But this is not a serious alternative to the quick solution to getting a very beautiful, very hot,"9" or "10" girl in her early 20's into your bed for the night as a sure thing!

LJ

Insomniaque
06-12-11, 20:31
Hello, guys, does anybody knows or have tryed this web page:

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/

There is a search were are adds of girls from Kiev, also, need to be member to have the contacts of the girls posted there.

If nobody have tryed I will check any way, and will maintain informed. Browsed the Kiev escorts and spotted only a few obvious fakes, which is kind of encouraging if you compare to the loads of sites which are just a fucking insult to your intelligence. On the other hand, as KievGuy put it, having to pay in order merely to contact the girls, well, it sucks. Maybe a good compromise would be to try for 3 days at a relatively cheap price and contact all the girls you may be interested in within that period of time, and then immediately cancel your subscription to avoid any rebill?

Anyway, please keep us posted if you decide to check it out.

Angus Magee
06-12-11, 20:44
Hello, guys, does anybody knows or have tryed this web page:

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/

There is a search were are adds of girls from Kiev, also, need to be member to have the contacts of the girls posted there.

If nobody have tryed I will check any way, and will maintain informed. A quick look found Allison Angel, a well known American soft core porn actress in their stable.

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-10080.html

Her web site,

http://anonym.to/?http://www.alisonangel.com/

Proceed with caution.

AM

Sponsor74
06-13-11, 11:21
KievGuy, that is a good suggestion, but it only covers the time period of the early AM hours after midnight when normal pedestrian traffic would be minimal, and so possible WG's stand out.

However, the guys on this forum who have been insisting that they can get beautiful girls for $60 off the street and stores in Kiev (Lukasek, Stevie69 and others) , have written that there are hundreds of beautiful girls to pick from on the streets of Kiev. So they cannot be talking about just a few girls sitting on a bench at 1 AM. They are talking about prime-time during the day and early evening hours when there are hundreds of girls out and about on K street and in the stores and malls.

What is needed here are some answers to the questions I posed on how it is possible to tell if a girl is a potential WG or semi-pro and how to lead the initial conversation toward the proposition of money for sex in order to get them into bed, without a long drawn out dating process?

The problem remains the same: One wants to avoid propositioning a regular non-working girl with an offer of sex for money and all the embarrasment that might ensue from that. If it simply amounts to trying to pick up girls with an approach that treats them as freebies, with no mention of money for sex, and simply wait for the girl to raise the issue of payment, and deal with it if and when she does. Then there is a serious limitation in this for older guys (40+ or 50+) for whom it might be difficult to start pursuing 18. 22 year old university-age girls on the street as freebies.

So I would ask again if there is some way you guys who have made these claims have devised, to sniff out, or figure out if a girl is a WG?

The answer to this question is important, because if one can know in advance somehow that a girl would be receptive to a proposition of sex for money, then it would be ok for an older guy to approach this girl too, and it would be safe to not waste time with the dating process (of taking their number, calling them for a date, having dinner, wining and dining them, etc, etc, and hoping on a future date to "get some" as is done universally world-over when dating a normal girl) and instead to get right to the proposition of going straight to your apartment for some fun. No waste of time.

Furthermore, the "Play Book" needs answers and descriptions of all the stages of this pursuit, which included, how to select the girl to approach, where to do this best, how to successfully approach, how to avoid an embarrassing situation of propositioning a girl who is not a WG, what to say, how to lead the conversation, how to get the girl into your apartment, how to get things to the next level, how to make the first sexual move, or anything that could help guys of middle age who haven't been engaged in picking up young girls from the street for many years, get a better idea on how to do this.

NOTE:

If it turns out, as the lack of any concrete or useful response on these questions is beginning to suggest, that girls on K street must all be approached and pursued in the normal way a guy picks up girls, I. E. As freebies, and it is for the girls to raise any money issue, then the readers here should know that the entire discussion of street girls as a practical alternative to getting girls from strip clubs or nightclubs was total BS. This is because of (a) the time factor, and (be) the age factor. The "freebie" from the street requires much more time to pursue and develop than may be available on a short weekend visit to Kiev (time-factor). And the pursuit of young university girls between the ages of 18 to early 20's (the ages of the strippers in Rio) would not so acceptably be done by guys who are way too old for them as normal prospective dates (age-factor). Therefore, although potentially much cheaper, young university-age girls from the "street" are not a practical alternative at all for guys who are 40+ and in town for a short visit, compared to getting a girl from Rio.

Of course, during daytimes when strip clubs and nightclubs are closed, guys who are 40+ can always spend some of their time trying to pick up, as freebies, women who appear to be more within the age of their socially acceptable "dating range", I. E. Women in their late 20's or 30's and who look hot, and maybe squeeze in a date during the time of one's visit to Kiev. But this is not a serious alternative to the quick solution to getting a very beautiful, very hot,"9" or "10" girl in her early 20's into your bed for the night as a sure thing!

LJHi LJ,

My contribution to your query, this approach is very personal and I see case by case. First is of course eyes contact and see here reaction if I think positive, then second step: e. G. Names, study or work, a short introduction from myself (very carefully not to give too much details and I use to say I am there for long time). Most of these girls have financial problems and looking for some extra money for shopping or mobiles etc.

My proposal is to walk and see the shopping malls and check her reaction all these products (in my opinion for good quality Kiev is very expensive) then my proposal is to go to my apartment because I carry some fashion clothes or cosmetic which most of these girls like.

Then in the apartment is easier to continue and arrange a competitive price and time too.

In past visits to Kiev these girl were in the Main Street or shopping centers. Now I don't know which other places are good to find them, because these girls in these places are more expensive and therefore wonder other places or streets with good results.

I trust this help and look forward to other contributions too

ErickMorsa
06-13-11, 20:21
Well any way I entered the site, and pay for trial,

In my search more or less I found that some girls are fake or from other agencies, some of theme only post emails or ICQ or Emails and telephone, I make searches in google, and thats when I found some of theme have same telefon, for diferent girls or pictures, BUT. Also find 2 or 3 girls that look real, and check the info, also mail, and they are in other websites, with the same pictures, name telephone etc.

This are the links of the real ones.

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-3004.html

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-7374.html

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-7823.html

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-3015.html

The next one, I remeber that I have see her before, but not sure if in gia escort agency or were, the link is this.

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-3036.html

She is really nice.

Ok, guys next step is when arrive, to contract them, and see is everything fits. =)

Sevenup
06-13-11, 22:39
And Kiyv's massage places.

So much work goes into flirting with a girl, or striking a business deal, and them treating them appropriately, most of the time they want the princess treatment, and in bed they are often passive or semi-passive.

I love massage, because there, for a low price, the girl (s) take care of you for the entire time, from beginning to end! There is no f. Ing, but the quality of the girls I've found is generally very high (with a few exceptions. Of course).

Tried several recipes:

1. Rakuena, one girl for two hours, two girls for one hour, generally around 400-450 for single girl. 700-800 for two hours or two girls, single release. Their massage skills vary, some are very good. Full body slide massage every time, and you can fondle them at your leisure except the Y. There are some real stunning beauties working there (9-10 easy) , with boobs to die for! Always 5-7 girls working when I went. Leave a 100 tip per girl to make them happy to see you again.

2. Salon Dolly, girls a little less quality, but god do they make up for it in efforts! My favorite place I think. I always went for two girls for 750, double release. 90 minutes, and they are not clock watchers. Again, fondle at your leisure. You can also add three girls, three hours, kinda build your massage type of arrangement. Some girls will kiss you, some with will even dfk, but YMMV. Always fun to have several hands teasing you, still no touching the Y, but they make sure you leave very happy. One night, had a stunning beauty, who must have been 18 plus one day, but a real dream body, very firm natural see-cup and eyes to die for.

3. Salon Chocolate-Studio. Lower quality girls (solid 7s at least though) , cheap prices, clean place, and again the girls truly compensate with their efforts. And the massages I received there were the real things, those girls have taken classes for sure. At 400h for one your, what do you have to loose? They also have a hookah program, with three girls, which I didn't try yet but is on my to do list.

In any of these places, forget about oral or penetration. Although someone here mentioned he's seen it, I doubt it seriously. But those girls are pro and some of them have that technique of getting on top of you and simulating coit while holding you with their hands. They are so good that in the moment sometimes you really wonder if you're inside her. I tell you, illusion is strong and their tight hand pressure while doing this give you amazing orgasms!

Last option for you: take-out. I wanted to see if more was on the menu. You can ask any of those places to send the girl to your place for an agreed-upon amount of time, provide you pay taxi on top of the fee. Tried two different girls from two places, and maybe I got unlucky, but they were adhering to the no-coit rule. They will lay down in the bed with you and fondle as if you were making love, one even allowed dfk, but both strictly adhered to the manual release. The last one though was so horny (I tried my best, and it certainly was working!) that I could feel her very wet as she was rubbing her pussy against my leg, but she did hold those legs very tightly closed! That girl was amazingly resistant to tease! She admitted afterwards, just before leaving, having been tempted! Shit, girl. Why didn't you let go.

Anyhow, although I for sure do love the real sex with a girl, those massages places are a fun hobby in between! Cheap, very pretty girls, and usually top notch service!

Happy times!

LilJoey
06-14-11, 04:10
Hi LJ,

My contribution to your query, this approach is very personal and I see case by case. First is of course eyes contact and see here reaction if I think positive, then second step: e. G. Names, study or work, a short introduction from myself (very carefully not to give too much details and I use to say I am there for long time). Most of these girls have financial problems and looking for some extra money for shopping or mobiles etc.

My proposal is to walk and see the shopping malls and check her reaction all these products (in my opinion for good quality Kiev is very expensive) then my proposal is to go to my apartment because I carry some fashion clothes or cosmetic which most of these girls like.

Then in the apartment is easier to continue and arrange a competitive price and time too.

In past visits to Kiev these girl were in the Main Street or shopping centers. Now I don't know which other places are good to find them, because these girls in these places are more expensive and therefore wonder other places or streets with good results.

I trust this help and look forward to other contributions tooVery interesting. Eye contact. Introductions. An invitation to walk together in mall and shop together. It all sounds plausible and so far your suggestion is somethinge other men could also do.

But then you wrote,"my proposal is to go to my apartment because I carry some fashion clothes or cosmetic which most of these girls like." Here is where most guys will not be able to follow your methods so easily. Not many guys carry ladies fashion clothes and cosmetics, or would even know what you have in mind.

Although I get the general idea of having things on hand to give as gifts that girls might want, perhaps you could suggest certain things specifically for guys to purchase and have on hand in our apartments that would serve the purpose?

KievGuy
06-14-11, 04:46
KievGuy, that is a good suggestion, but it only covers the time period of the early AM hours after midnight when normal pedestrian traffic would be minimal, and so possible WG's stand out.

However, the guys on this forum who have been insisting that they can get beautiful girls for $60 off the street and stores in Kiev (Lukasek, Stevie69 and others) , have written that there are hundreds of beautiful girls to pick from on the streets of Kiev. So they cannot be talking about just a few girls sitting on a bench at 1 AM. They are talking about prime-time during the day and early evening hours when there are hundreds of girls out and about on K street and in the stores and malls.

What is needed here are some answers to the questions I posed on how it is possible to tell if a girl is a potential WG or semi-pro and how to lead the initial conversation toward the proposition of money for sex in order to get them into bed, without a long drawn out dating process?

The problem remains the same: One wants to avoid propositioning a regular non-working girl with an offer of sex for money and all the embarrasment that might ensue from that. If it simply amounts to trying to pick up girls with an approach that treats them as freebies, with no mention of money for sex, and simply wait for the girl to raise the issue of payment, and deal with it if and when she does. Then there is a serious limitation in this for older guys (40+ or 50+) for whom it might be difficult to start pursuing 18. 22 year old university-age girls on the street as freebies.

So I would ask again if there is some way you guys who have made these claims have devised, to sniff out, or figure out if a girl is a WG?

The answer to this question is important, because if one can know in advance somehow that a girl would be receptive to a proposition of sex for money, then it would be ok for an older guy to approach this girl too, and it would be safe to not waste time with the dating process (of taking their number, calling them for a date, having dinner, wining and dining them, etc, etc, and hoping on a future date to "get some" as is done universally world-over when dating a normal girl) and instead to get right to the proposition of going straight to your apartment for some fun. No waste of time.

Furthermore, the "Play Book" needs answers and descriptions of all the stages of this pursuit, which included, how to select the girl to approach, where to do this best, how to successfully approach, how to avoid an embarrassing situation of propositioning a girl who is not a WG, what to say, how to lead the conversation, how to get the girl into your apartment, how to get things to the next level, how to make the first sexual move, or anything that could help guys of middle age who haven't been engaged in picking up young girls from the street for many years, get a better idea on how to do this.

NOTE:

If it turns out, as the lack of any concrete or useful response on these questions is beginning to suggest, that girls on K street must all be approached and pursued in the normal way a guy picks up girls, I. E. As freebies, and it is for the girls to raise any money issue, then the readers here should know that the entire discussion of street girls as a practical alternative to getting girls from strip clubs or nightclubs was total BS. This is because of (a) the time factor, and (be) the age factor. The "freebie" from the street requires much more time to pursue and develop than may be available on a short weekend visit to Kiev (time-factor). And the pursuit of young university girls between the ages of 18 to early 20's (the ages of the strippers in Rio) would not so acceptably be done by guys who are way too old for them as normal prospective dates (age-factor). Therefore, although potentially much cheaper, young university-age girls from the "street" are not a practical alternative at all for guys who are 40+ and in town for a short visit, compared to getting a girl from Rio.

Of course, during daytimes when strip clubs and nightclubs are closed, guys who are 40+ can always spend some of their time trying to pick up, as freebies, women who appear to be more within the age of their socially acceptable "dating range", I. E. Women in their late 20's or 30's and who look hot, and maybe squeeze in a date during the time of one's visit to Kiev. But this is not a serious alternative to the quick solution to getting a very beautiful, very hot,"9" or "10" girl in her early 20's into your bed for the night as a sure thing!

LJThere's a far simpler explanation at work to explain the "success" of the guys here who say they've had a quality sexual experience with a beautiful girl they met on the street in Kiev for under $60, and that is that, quite simply, it is total bs, or it happened so long ago as to render it contextually meaningless. To suggest this is a viable approach for someone here for a long weekend in 2011 is ludicrous at best, if your standards are as high as I'm hearing. I can believe you can get an average quality Kiev girl in the 5-6 range for that price, but for under 500 UAH you won't find the beautiful knockouts I keep hearing about from the clubs. And I would add that even for the average Kiev girl, you'd better be VERY CAREFUL in how you bring this up, because, desperate or not, they AREN'T working in a strip joint for a reason. And that's because they aren't yet that desperate!

I have met some non WGs that go for that price, but I live here and have the luxury of time. And these were not the drop dead gorgeous conquests that I hear about the club girls. In fact, even then, at a much higher price, I'm not a total believer, because I've been to these clubs and what I saw was 7-9s, definitely NO 10s, and mostly in the 7 range. Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, etc. But at least at the clubs we can all agree that at some price most of the girls will go with you especially if you know the lingo.

I make no pretense here. I'm an average looking guy with an average "game". And I'm 54. If you're a VERY good looking guy with a great game and are younger than me I'm sure you can do better than me given time. But we've already established that's a commodity that most of you don't have. End of story, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't waste ten minutes pursuing this "poor Kiev girl on the street" nonsense actively if I were you and had only a 2-3 day window. Yes, if BY PURE CHANCE you meet a girl in a shop, bar, whatever, you might gently suggest something, but I wouldn't count on it at all. I suspect strongly that much of what I've read here has the same credibility as an old Penthouse letter to the editor.

KievGuy
06-14-11, 04:51
KievGuy,

Nice report, well done.

Would be interesting to know the name or web-site of this sex tour company.

VG.I'm sorry, but my date with this girl totally bombed, and I don't want to give her any business. I actually think she would do a pretty good job, but given the way she treated me, screw her!

KievGuy
06-14-11, 05:03
KievGuy, that is a good suggestion, but it only covers the time period of the early AM hours after midnight when normal pedestrian traffic would be minimal, and so possible WG's stand out.

However, the guys on this forum who have been insisting that they can get beautiful girls for $60 off the street and stores in Kiev (Lukasek, Stevie69 and others) , have written that there are hundreds of beautiful girls to pick from on the streets of Kiev. So they cannot be talking about just a few girls sitting on a bench at 1 AM. They are talking about prime-time during the day and early evening hours when there are hundreds of girls out and about on K street and in the stores and malls.

What is needed here are some answers to the questions I posed on how it is possible to tell if a girl is a potential WG or semi-pro and how to lead the initial conversation toward the proposition of money for sex in order to get them into bed, without a long drawn out dating process?

The problem remains the same: One wants to avoid propositioning a regular non-working girl with an offer of sex for money and all the embarrasment that might ensue from that. If it simply amounts to trying to pick up girls with an approach that treats them as freebies, with no mention of money for sex, and simply wait for the girl to raise the issue of payment, and deal with it if and when she does. Then there is a serious limitation in this for older guys (40+ or 50+) for whom it might be difficult to start pursuing 18. 22 year old university-age girls on the street as freebies.

So I would ask again if there is some way you guys who have made these claims have devised, to sniff out, or figure out if a girl is a WG?

The answer to this question is important, because if one can know in advance somehow that a girl would be receptive to a proposition of sex for money, then it would be ok for an older guy to approach this girl too, and it would be safe to not waste time with the dating process (of taking their number, calling them for a date, having dinner, wining and dining them, etc, etc, and hoping on a future date to "get some" as is done universally world-over when dating a normal girl) and instead to get right to the proposition of going straight to your apartment for some fun. No waste of time.

Furthermore, the "Play Book" needs answers and descriptions of all the stages of this pursuit, which included, how to select the girl to approach, where to do this best, how to successfully approach, how to avoid an embarrassing situation of propositioning a girl who is not a WG, what to say, how to lead the conversation, how to get the girl into your apartment, how to get things to the next level, how to make the first sexual move, or anything that could help guys of middle age who haven't been engaged in picking up young girls from the street for many years, get a better idea on how to do this.

NOTE:

If it turns out, as the lack of any concrete or useful response on these questions is beginning to suggest, that girls on K street must all be approached and pursued in the normal way a guy picks up girls, I. E. As freebies, and it is for the girls to raise any money issue, then the readers here should know that the entire discussion of street girls as a practical alternative to getting girls from strip clubs or nightclubs was total BS. This is because of (a) the time factor, and (be) the age factor. The "freebie" from the street requires much more time to pursue and develop than may be available on a short weekend visit to Kiev (time-factor). And the pursuit of young university girls between the ages of 18 to early 20's (the ages of the strippers in Rio) would not so acceptably be done by guys who are way too old for them as normal prospective dates (age-factor). Therefore, although potentially much cheaper, young university-age girls from the "street" are not a practical alternative at all for guys who are 40+ and in town for a short visit, compared to getting a girl from Rio.

Of course, during daytimes when strip clubs and nightclubs are closed, guys who are 40+ can always spend some of their time trying to pick up, as freebies, women who appear to be more within the age of their socially acceptable "dating range", I. E. Women in their late 20's or 30's and who look hot, and maybe squeeze in a date during the time of one's visit to Kiev. But this is not a serious alternative to the quick solution to getting a very beautiful, very hot,"9" or "10" girl in her early 20's into your bed for the night as a sure thing!

LJAnd another thing. This may sound strange in a forum like this but I don't like the idea of lying to a girl in order to get into her pants. Pathetic. If you can't be honest with a woman, jerk yourself off! I'm not directing this at you at all LJ, but to try to seduce a twenty something girl with some lie about the way you make a living or a promise about how long you're staying strikes me as more than just a little slimy.

ErickMorsa
06-14-11, 18:38
There's a far simpler explanation at work to explain the "success" of the guys here who say they've had a quality sexual experience with a beautiful girl they met on the street in Kiev for under $60, and that is that, quite simply, it is total bs, or it happened so long ago as to render it contextually meaningless. To suggest this is a viable approach for someone here for a long weekend in 2011 is ludicrous at best, if your standards are as high as I'm hearing. I can believe you can get an average quality Kiev girl in the 5-6 range for that price, but for under 500 UAH you won't find the beautiful knockouts I keep hearing about from the clubs. And I would add that even for the average Kiev girl, you'd better be VERY CAREFUL in how you bring this up, because, desperate or not, they AREN'T working in a strip joint for a reason. And that's because they aren't yet that desperate!

I have met some non WGs that go for that price, but I live here and have the luxury of time. And these were not the drop dead gorgeous conquests that I hear about the club girls. In fact, even then, at a much higher price, I'm not a total believer, because I've been to these clubs and what I saw was 7-9s, definitely NO 10s, and mostly in the 7 range. Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, etc. But at least at the clubs we can all agree that at some price most of the girls will go with you especially if you know the lingo.

I make no pretense here. I'm an average looking guy with an average "game". And I'm 54. If you're a VERY good looking guy with a great game and are younger than me I'm sure you can do better than me given time. But we've already established that's a commodity that most of you don't have. End of story, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't waste ten minutes pursuing this "poor Kiev girl on the street" nonsense actively if I were you and had only a 2-3 day window. Yes, if BY PURE CHANCE you meet a girl in a shop, bar, whatever, you might gently suggest something, but I wouldn't count on it at all. I suspect strongly that much of what I've read here has the same credibility as an old Penthouse letter to the editor. Agree with you man.

Limarian
06-14-11, 20:24
Your reviews useful and factual. My experiences same as yours. Massage girls will not do it. It's the most frustrating but exciting thing. I have been fantasising about it for a year since I came back. I tried it wIth the Rakuena girls and it just doesn't happen. They must have been threatened with immediate expulsion by the management if they are found transgressing. The Rakuena girls so nice to chat to and intelligent etc. But impenetrable. I even tried getting on a bit of pussy licking to break down their defences but they wouldn't allow it. I had one appointment back at my app't in the hope it would happen but it's the same. The 'crazy girl' massage with two girls just fantastic by the way. I do wonder if its possibel to get a girl and boy from rakuena and watch them play with each other. That would be fun. I mailed asking but no reply.

I tried River Palace and you have to do a bit of work to get it. I mean smiling and so on, but as long as you persist you will get something. I didn't hold out long enuf to get a stunner but ended up with a reasonable looking one who approached me, chatted and offered while I was just leaning against a pillar. (2000) I also visited local strip places on Kreshtatic and was immediately offered sex. Either in my app't (1800) or at the back by the manageress. Some girls were just extraordinary. About seven foot six. Slim etc, ugh. I got sex from 'top models' although had the usual experience of 'bait and switch' with completely different girls (400). Acceptable but not the lovelies I had looked forward to. One explained 'robot' when quizzed about the difference between photo and what turns up. So I guess she meant there's some automated system at work. After four or five days at it I felt so sick and ill with all the viagra I had to give up my search for perfection and get out of Kiev. I've been at this for years and its not easy. It's a constant hassle of chasing and deception. Next I plan to try Gia. What you see is what you get apparently, or a couple of apparently genuine Mambas, although I expect that is 99% agency scams. Incidentally, my friend was threatened with an overnight at the jail after being carted off by police for not being able to produce a passport. Had to fork out 1000 to get away.

LilJoey
06-15-11, 05:15
There's a far simpler explanation at work to explain the "success" of the guys here who say they've had a quality sexual experience with a beautiful girl they met on the street in Kiev for under $60, and that is that, quite simply, it is total bs, or it happened so long ago as to render it contextually meaningless. To suggest this is a viable approach for someone here for a long weekend in 2011 is ludicrous at best, if your standards are as high as I'm hearing. I can believe you can get an average quality Kiev girl in the 5-6 range for that price, but for under 500 UAH you won't find the beautiful knockouts I keep hearing about from the clubs. And I would add that even for the average Kiev girl, you'd better be VERY CAREFUL in how you bring this up, because, desperate or not, they AREN'T working in a strip joint for a reason. And that's because they aren't yet that desperate!

I have met some non WGs that go for that price, but I live here and have the luxury of time. And these were not the drop dead gorgeous conquests that I hear about the club girls. In fact, even then, at a much higher price, I'm not a total believer, because I've been to these clubs and what I saw was 7-9s, definitely NO 10s, and mostly in the 7 range. Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, etc. But at least at the clubs we can all agree that at some price most of the girls will go with you especially if you know the lingo.

I make no pretense here. I'm an average looking guy with an average "game". And I'm 54. If you're a VERY good looking guy with a great game and are younger than me I'm sure you can do better than me given time. But we've already established that's a commodity that most of you don't have. End of story, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't waste ten minutes pursuing this "poor Kiev girl on the street" nonsense actively if I were you and had only a 2-3 day window. Yes, if BY PURE CHANCE you meet a girl in a shop, bar, whatever, you might gently suggest something, but I wouldn't count on it at all. I suspect strongly that much of what I've read here has the same credibility as an old Penthouse letter to the editor. KievGuy, your skepticism may well be deserved. I have noticed a number of people on this forum who insist that on the street in Kiev there are 100's of girls available for sex for less than $100, who are just as beautiful as the best looking of the hotties at Rio strip club. Examples of such posts are:


People interested in spending $500 a pop (all costs included) can easily stay home. An 'elite' companion in London, Paris, New York, or any other major city will cost about that much. Yes, you can also pay far more. They beauty about Kiev, and most of Eastern Europe for that matter, is that you can get the same type of girl for a fraction of the cost. If there were not this abundance of beautiful women, then people (like us) would not travel there to meet them.

On a nice summer day, in any city in Easter Europe, including Kiev, there are hundreds of beautiful women littering the streets. The difference with North America and some other parts of Europe? They are slim; they are elegant; they are feminine; they are sexy. You can go to Rio and pay $300 or more for a PROFESIONAL 'supermodel', or you can just stay home. Alternatively, you can have a perfectly beautiful 18 year-old student for under $100 who, in the back of her head, still hopes this meeting might turn into a real relationship, and will give you a great time.
I fully agree! $500 is a LOT of money in Ukraine. For that much, you might as well stay home, wherever that is, and save yourself the travel and accomodation costs. The beuty about Kiev is that a model type babe CAN be had for $100 or less. About the Knight's assertion that RIO women are supermodels and other babes are not, I respectufully disagree. Kiev is FULL of shockingly beutiful women! The difference is that int he strip bar they are naked, with platform shoes and the light is really bad. In reality, they are no more beautiful that the hundreds of babes littering the streets day and night.

The part about them being "supermodels" is true int he sense that they are profesionals and have figured out how to make the most money in their line of work, something they young students on Mamba have yet to figure out. What would you prefer, having Gisele, Marisa, Alessandra, Heidi, and Kate now, when they are "supermodels" at the top of their games and all nearly, or over. 30 years old? Or you would prefer them when they were 18-20 years old, and just starting in the business? Are they more beautiful now? Unlikely! It is just better that they have marketting now.
I do not knwo why people are promulgatind the idea of going to strip bars, paying cover, pricey drinks and 200 to 400 USD for services that can be had for a fraction of that cost.

IN mamba, top modesls, some other bars, and out on the street you can easily find perfectly sweet, unabashedly sexy, and incredibly firm 18-22 year-old students who will often be happy with 50 to 60 USD. Maybe they are not smart enough to know that people pay far more, or they do not consider themselves real professionals. Sometimes they are open to spending the night, sometimes for no extra charge (nice central apartment in a fresh bed or back home, they probably think). I have responded to posts like these in a number of previous posts with what I regarded as the facts about the options in Kiev. For newbies, it's worth reviewing those prior posts into which I put a good deal of effort to provide accurate information. Here are some links:

Your pictures were worth a thousand dollars

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1162239#post1162239

Best Bang For Your Buck

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1162052#post1162052

Let's try to be more accurate

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1159412#post1159412

Not Much Wrong

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1157445#post1157445

Like The Difference Between a Horse and a Mercedes!

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1157266#post1157266

Naked Hotness

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1156774#post1156774

I have personally observed the quality and quantity of the girls on Kreshatik at different times, as well as the girls in Rio strip club. I do not know what proportion of the girls I saw on Kreshatik might be agreeable with the idea of sex for money or the amount of that money. But regardless of that, I feel that the concentration of very pretty girls in one location like a strip club, is necessarily greater than what can be found on the street, any street, which has all types of other people, not just young pretty girls. In fact in one of my previous posts I described my attempt to get photos of all the hotties who I thought were to be found walking at any given time on Kreshatik, as the myth goes, because I wanted to show my buddies back home what they were missing by not coming with me to Kiev. And what I found out was, that in a half hour of waiting on Kreshatik near Maidan for a girl sufficiently hot to be worthy of a photo, I didn't find any to photograph, so I abandoned the project. It is a myth. Of course, one does sporadically encounter truly beautiful girls on Kreshatik. That is the truth upon which the myth is built. But it is not as common as one might think. Certainly to suggest that there are more pretty girls in any specific area of Kreshatik, than one would encounter in a strip club, is unlikely, and to assert that there are 100's of girls on the level of beauty of a 9 or 10 who are available for sex for less than $100, is sheer exaggeration. That was my opinion, based on my own observations and experiences to date.

However, I have an open mind. Also, I have not invested much time in attempting to pick up girls on Kreshatik of a very high level of beauty, so I don't know what percentage of them would be interested in sex for money, and what their prices might be. So while I take the claims of the writers who say that on the streets of Kiev 100's of beautiful girls can be had for sex for less than $100, with a big grain of salt, as the saying goes, I am open—minded to learn something new. So I invited those writers to tell the forum about their experiences and how they accomplished getting those girls they had from the streets. Unfortunately, to date, none of them has responded, so it seems that the claims are not well-founded.

But anyone who has made attempts to pick up girls for sex on Kreshatik, should definitely write a post about their 'war stories', as we all want to hear about it.

LJ

Insomniaque
06-15-11, 11:25
Well any way I entered the site, and pay for trial,

In my search more or less I found that some girls are fake or from other agencies, some of theme only post emails or ICQ or Emails and telephone, I make searches in google, and thats when I found some of theme have same telefon, for diferent girls or pictures, BUT. Also find 2 or 3 girls that look real, and check the info, also mail, and they are in other websites, with the same pictures, name telephone etc.

This are the links of the real ones.

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-3004.html

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-7374.html

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-7823.html

http://www.russiansexbombs.com/girl-3015.htmlDisappointing, to say the least. Thanks for sharing the info =)

Insomniaque
06-15-11, 11:33
There's a far simpler explanation at work to explain the "success" of the guys here who say they've had a quality sexual experience with a beautiful girl they met on the street in Kiev for under $60, and that is that, quite simply, it is total bs, or it happened so long ago as to render it contextually meaningless. To suggest this is a viable approach for someone here for a long weekend in 2011 is ludicrous at best, if your standards are as high as I'm hearing. I can believe you can get an average quality Kiev girl in the 5-6 range for that price, but for under 500 UAH you won't find the beautiful knockouts I keep hearing about from the clubs. And I would add that even for the average Kiev girl, you'd better be VERY CAREFUL in how you bring this up, because, desperate or not, they AREN'T working in a strip joint for a reason. And that's because they aren't yet that desperate!

I have met some non WGs that go for that price, but I live here and have the luxury of time. And these were not the drop dead gorgeous conquests that I hear about the club girls. In fact, even then, at a much higher price, I'm not a total believer, because I've been to these clubs and what I saw was 7-9s, definitely NO 10s, and mostly in the 7 range. Yes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, etc. But at least at the clubs we can all agree that at some price most of the girls will go with you especially if you know the lingo.

I make no pretense here. I'm an average looking guy with an average "game". And I'm 54. If you're a VERY good looking guy with a great game and are younger than me I'm sure you can do better than me given time. But we've already established that's a commodity that most of you don't have. End of story, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't waste ten minutes pursuing this "poor Kiev girl on the street" nonsense actively if I were you and had only a 2-3 day window. Yes, if BY PURE CHANCE you meet a girl in a shop, bar, whatever, you might gently suggest something, but I wouldn't count on it at all. I suspect strongly that much of what I've read here has the same credibility as an old Penthouse letter to the editor. I couldn't agree more.


And another thing. This may sound strange in a forum like this but I don't like the idea of lying to a girl in order to get into her pants. Pathetic. If you can't be honest with a woman, jerk yourself off! I'm not directing this at you at all LJ, but to try to seduce a twenty something girl with some lie about the way you make a living or a promise about how long you're staying strikes me as more than just a little slimy.It doesn't sound strange to me at all.

Insomniaque
06-15-11, 11:42
I tried River Palace and you have to do a bit of work to get it. I mean smiling and so on, but as long as you persist you will get something. I didn't hold out long enuf to get a stunner but ended up with a reasonable looking one who approached me, chatted and offered while I was just leaning against a pillar. (2000)Are you talking about the new venue or did you just get stuck up in time a couple of years ago? How would the new RP compare to the former one? And I suppose (2000) means UAH2000? For how long?


I also visited local strip places on Kreshtatic and was immediately offered sex. Either in my app't (1800) or at the back by the manageress. Some girls were just extraordinary. About seven foot six. Slim etc, ugh.What places are you talking about? A few more details would be appreciated.

Curious12
06-17-11, 19:10
My first time in Kiev without RP. I didn't realize how badly I would miss that place. When I visited Kiev, I used to go there almost daily, many times without any plans to leave with the girl. I would just interact with girls, talk to them, buy drinks, watch some football games in sports bar. I loved RP, many times I would stay until the morning and leave on a first subway train at 5. 30 am I was doing that to avoid paying ridiculous taxi charges. I talked to a local friend of mine, he said the main reason why RP is gone is because of the casino. Once the government decided to close all casinos, the management couldn't keep the club there. I'm not sure if that's the exact reason, but that's what I was told. Anyway, it's time to move on, I hope there will be another place similar to RP in the future.

Last night I went to Rio. I'm staying on Mikhaylovskaya street. 2 minutes from O'Briens, so I just walked to Rio. The weather is nice, no need to be ripped by a taxi driver. I arrived there around 10 pm and the place was packed. Even the waitress said "It looks like Friday, I have no idea why so many people are here". I was advised to go upstairs. Of course I was told that there's no table. Many people arrived after me and everyoone was told "wait here, no table". After about 20 minutes I went to the guy named Mark (he was in charge upstairs) and gave him 100 grivnas. He said there are so many people waiting but he'll try to do something. After 15 minutes I was sitting at a table. It's funny how everything works in this country once you pay.

The club has four dancing areas. I have seen three of them and there's also a VIP room. Now I have to say I have visited many strip clubs in New York, Las Vegas, LA, Toronto and Montreal and Rio girls are the most spoiled and unprofessional. They simply have no idea how to dance and how to behave properly. It's like they are doing a huge favor for everyone just being there. They show no desire to do anything. Strippers in North America really want to attract your attention, they want to get a lap dance. Here in Rio, they don't give a shit. Very strange attitude.

Private dances. I had three private dances. Now I was very surprised that you can only have one session with each girl because there's a line up. Very strange. In Canada you could stay with the same girl for 1-2 hours and nobody would force you to leave. It's different at Rio. My first choice was Elia. Extremely beautiful blonde girl, she changed her outfit several times during the evening and was 9/10 IMO. She had a nice smile, beautiful tits, amazing body. But her dances, boy oh boy, well let's just say she wouldn't get a single customer in the USA or Canada with this type of dance. She's beautiful and she knows it but come on, do something to please your customer. She started in the middle of the song, was far from me, did not initiate any eye contact and basically didn't do anything to be nice. Shortly she abruptly said "It's over, pay now!". I asked her if she only dances, she said "Of course I only dance". After that I watched the stage show and then Julia or Julietta (I didn't catch her name) came to me. She was 7/10, older blonde girl but still beautiful. Her attitude was much better. She also said she doesn't provide takeout but her private dance was much better. Good eye contact, LFK, lots of touching. I stayed for another hour but I have to say after this RIO visit I miss River Palace even more.

LilJoey
06-18-11, 03:38
My first time in Kiev without RP. I didn't realize how badly I would miss that place. I hope there will be another place similar to RP in the future.

Last night I went to Rio. After about 20 minutes I went to the guy named Mark (he was in charge upstairs) and gave him 100 grivnas. He said there are so many people waiting but he'll try to do something. After 15 minutes I was sitting at a table. It's funny how everything works in this country once you pay.

I had three private dances My first choice was Elia. Extremely beautiful blonde girl, she changed her outfit several times during the evening and was 9/10 IMO. She had a nice smile, beautiful tits, amazing body. But her dances, boy oh boy, well let's just say she wouldn't get a single customer in the USA or Canada with this type of dance. She's beautiful and she knows it but come on, do something to please your customer. She started in the middle of the song, was far from me, did not initiate any eye contact and basically didn't do anything to be nice. Shortly she abruptly said "It's over, pay now!". I asked her if she only dances, she said "Of course I only dance". After that I watched the stage show and then Julia or Julietta (I didn't catch her name) came to me. She was 7/10, older blonde girl but still beautiful. Her attitude was much better. She also said she doesn't provide takeout but her private dance was much better. Good eye contact, LFK, lots of touching. I stayed for another hour but I have to say after this RIO visit I miss River Palace even more. We all really miss RP!

Recommendation for your next visit to Rio is to try to befriend the manager who is assisting you in the room where you are seated and to FIRST ask the manager you tipped the 100 UAH about any girl you are thinking of inviting to your table or taking for a private dance and if he knows whether she dances only or if she goes out with customers, and whether she is a good girl. You might be able to spare yourself time wasted on dancer only girls and the manager may have good or bad feedback about the girls you are considering and may be able to steer you towards a more well liked girl.

LJ

Cruiser D
06-18-11, 06:10
Rio was done 5 years ago.

Has it become the GIA of strip clubs? .

Will be in Kyiv June 24 for two weeks.


Heaps of talking about a nasty strip club.

Has the freebie market all dried up in Kiev, so that not a single report about non-pro scoring has been posted since weeks?

Mav840
06-18-11, 10:56
Hey guys. I'm flying into Kiev tomorrow and was browsing the forum. One word. WOW! What a wealth of information. Great thread. One thing I did note however. Not too much hotel specific information. I'm staying at the intercontinental. Any wg to be found within the hotel itself? Also would appreciate if anyone who has stayed at the hotel could confirm if there is any issue with taking girls up to your room? Is there anyone standing by the elevators whose palms need to be greased etc? Would appreciate any and all feedback.

Curious12
06-18-11, 17:40
We all really miss RP!For sure!


Recommendation for your next visit to Rio is to try to befriend the manager who is assisting you in the room where you are seated and to FIRST ask the manager you tipped the 100 UAH about any girl you are thinking of inviting to your table or taking for a private dance and if he knows whether she dances only or if she goes out with customers, and whether she is a good girl. You might be able to spare yourself time wasted on dancer only girls and the manager may have good or bad feedback about the girls you are considering and may be able to steer you towards a more well liked girl.

LJThank you for your feedback. I will try your strategy if I visit Rio again.

LilJoey
06-19-11, 03:51
Rio was done 5 years ago.

Has it become the GIA of strip clubs? .

Will be in Kyiv June 24 for two weeks. GIA isn't comparable to Rio.

My first Kiev experiences were in 2009, just two years ago, in the heyday of the River Palace era. Since I was able to get a fairly hot looking girl almost any night at RP for $200/2hrs, and there was usually over a 100 girls at RP to choose from, I didn't even consider the strip clubs. I did like the burlesque show at Mandarin and took a girl home from there just once who was awesome, and I think I tried Rio also, but after midnite I would generally head over to RP. In those trips topmodels had real pics which proved to be true pics for the two girls I had ordered from there.

But now after the demise of RP, things are different because there is no place that has the large numbers of hot working girls assembled in one place like RP, other than the strip club. Furthermore, of the WG's that can be found in some nightclubs in limited numbers, the asking prices have gone up, transforming the strip club prices into a better price than can be obtained at the nightclubs for a high level hottie. So the prices for a very pretty girl are better at Rio than at nightclubs now.

That leaves the internet girls like from Mamba and top-modals and street girls as the only alternatives where you can get lower rates, but as you can read in the forum, these days the Mamba and top-modals websites are mostly filled with agency fake pics making it much harder and more time-consuming to get a very hot girl that way, although with persistence and some luck it is possible. And really therefore going after girls on the street who you can see beforehand are hot enough in the looks department for your tastes, remains the only way that could be more effective than the internet sites, for less expensive girls. But then again, the propositioning of girls on the streets has its own difficulties in that they don't wear signs on their foreheads saying "I'm a WG", so one must tread carefully, as I'm sure a guy with your experience well knows. And lastly, there's the girl apartments.

I didn't get the comparison of Rio strip club to GIA internet escort agency in your post. Although GIA has been deemed reliable insofar as it uses true pics, it is higher priced at $180 / hr, although one has the option to book only one hour. So GIA was basically an over priced sure thing option. Rio, however, is lower priced than the competing option most analogous, which is the very hot girls at the nightclubs.

If you were comparing Rio to the street girls, then you have entered an area of recent debate on this thread, about whether it is feasible to easily approach and proposition girls on the street for sex for less money than $100 / hr, who are on a very high level of looks, similar to the best girls at Rio who are 8's and 9's and a few 10's? (And I'm NOT talking about snagging an average looking girl on the level of a 4 or a 5 which some on this thread might be satisfied with because of a lower price tag). Or whether getting a girl who is an 8 or a 9 off the street for under $100 / hr is an extremely difficult and rare occurence, in which case it is not comparable to the much easier and more efficient options at Rio or even the nightclubs.

I look forward to reading your posts for your upcoming trip. I hope you will share with us some of your insights about getting girls from the street, as reporting in this area has been weak. And if you decide to investigate the girl apartments, another area with little reporting, do tell what you find.

Lastly, I was told, not by a few Ukrainians, that Odessa is great in the summer time for girl hunting. Might be worth a look if you have time.

LJ

KievGuy
06-19-11, 08:24
My first time in Kiev without RP. I didn't realize how badly I would miss that place. When I visited Kiev, I used to go there almost daily, many times without any plans to leave with the girl. I would just interact with girls, talk to them, buy drinks, watch some football games in sports bar. I loved RP, many times I would stay until the morning and leave on a first subway train at 5. 30 am I was doing that to avoid paying ridiculous taxi charges. I talked to a local friend of mine, he said the main reason why RP is gone is because of the casino. Once the government decided to close all casinos, the management couldn't keep the club there. I'm not sure if that's the exact reason, but that's what I was told. Anyway, it's time to move on, I hope there will be another place similar to RP in the future.

Last night I went to Rio. I'm staying on Mikhaylovskaya street. 2 minutes from O'Briens, so I just walked to Rio. The weather is nice, no need to be ripped by a taxi driver. I arrived there around 10 pm and the place was packed. Even the waitress said "It looks like Friday, I have no idea why so many people are here". I was advised to go upstairs. Of course I was told that there's no table. Many people arrived after me and everyoone was told "wait here, no table". After about 20 minutes I went to the guy named Mark (he was in charge upstairs) and gave him 100 grivnas. He said there are so many people waiting but he'll try to do something. After 15 minutes I was sitting at a table. It's funny how everything works in this country once you pay.

The club has four dancing areas. I have seen three of them and there's also a VIP room. Now I have to say I have visited many strip clubs in New York, Las Vegas, LA, Toronto and Montreal and Rio girls are the most spoiled and unprofessional. They simply have no idea how to dance and how to behave properly. It's like they are doing a huge favor for everyone just being there. They show no desire to do anything. Strippers in North America really want to attract your attention, they want to get a lap dance. Here in Rio, they don't give a shit. Very strange attitude.

Private dances. I had three private dances. Now I was very surprised that you can only have one session with each girl because there's a line up. Very strange. In Canada you could stay with the same girl for 1-2 hours and nobody would force you to leave. It's different at Rio. My first choice was Elia. Extremely beautiful blonde girl, she changed her outfit several times during the evening and was 9/10 IMO. She had a nice smile, beautiful tits, amazing body. But her dances, boy oh boy, well let's just say she wouldn't get a single customer in the USA or Canada with this type of dance. She's beautiful and she knows it but come on, do something to please your customer. She started in the middle of the song, was far from me, did not initiate any eye contact and basically didn't do anything to be nice. Shortly she abruptly said "It's over, pay now!". I asked her if she only dances, she said "Of course I only dance". After that I watched the stage show and then Julia or Julietta (I didn't catch her name) came to me. She was 7/10, older blonde girl but still beautiful. Her attitude was much better. She also said she doesn't provide takeout but her private dance was much better. Good eye contact, LFK, lots of touching. I stayed for another hour but I have to say after this RIO visit I miss River Palace even more.I have made similar comments about Rio, with the additional remark that they are NOT the best looking group I've ever seen in the US or Canada, either! The ONLY advantage I see here is the cost, which is quite a bit less to take a girl home.

Everyone here who wants to find much better looking girls (at least on the nights I went) who are actually ineterested in the quality of their costumes, dance routines, etc, should go to red Lion on K street. Additional bonus: a quick 50 UAH dance will tell you in an instant what her take home price is. None of this 200UAH private dance nonsense to get to the bottom line. Also, they have decent qulaity floor shows with matching costumes. This is FAR superior to Rio. The only drawback is the somewhat shabby Arabesque interior furnishings.

Russel4339
06-19-11, 13:50
Does anybody know if it is possible to buy Viagra in the pharmacies in the Ukraine? I recently moved here and used the last I brought with me from the US. My Russian is somewhat limited, so would be nice to know if is was possible before making the attempt.

Thanks!

Rudigumble
06-19-11, 15:36
Hello,

I will be in Kiev next week for some days and looking for girls who agree to make photos during sex. Any info here highly appreciated.

Sponsor74
06-19-11, 18:01
GIA isn't comparable to Rio.

My first Kiev experiences were in 2009, just two years ago, in the heyday of the River Palace era. Since I was able to get a fairly hot looking girl almost any night at RP for $200/2hrs, and there was usually over a 100 girls at RP to choose from, I didn't even consider the strip clubs. I did like the burlesque show at Mandarin and took a girl home from there just once who was awesome, and I think I tried Rio also, but after midnite I would generally head over to RP. In those trips topmodels had real pics which proved to be true pics for the two girls I had ordered from there.

But now after the demise of RP, things are different because there is no place that has the large numbers of hot working girls assembled in one place like RP, other than the strip club. Furthermore, of the WG's that can be found in some nightclubs in limited numbers, the asking prices have gone up, transforming the strip club prices into a better price than can be obtained at the nightclubs for a high level hottie. So the prices for a very pretty girl are better at Rio than at nightclubs now.

That leaves the internet girls like from Mamba and top-modals and street girls as the only alternatives where you can get lower rates, but as you can read in the forum, these days the Mamba and top-modals websites are mostly filled with agency fake pics making it much harder and more time-consuming to get a very hot girl that way, although with persistence and some luck it is possible. And really therefore going after girls on the street who you can see beforehand are hot enough in the looks department for your tastes, remains the only way that could be more effective than the internet sites, for less expensive girls. But then again, the propositioning of girls on the streets has its own difficulties in that they don't wear signs on their foreheads saying "I'm a WG", so one must tread carefully, as I'm sure a guy with your experience well knows. And lastly, there's the girl apartments.

I didn't get the comparison of Rio strip club to GIA internet escort agency in your post. Although GIA has been deemed reliable insofar as it uses true pics, it is higher priced at $180 / hr, although one has the option to book only one hour. So GIA was basically an over priced sure thing option. Rio, however, is lower priced than the competing option most analogous, which is the very hot girls at the nightclubs.

If you were comparing Rio to the street girls, then you have entered an area of recent debate on this thread, about whether it is feasible to easily approach and proposition girls on the street for sex for less money than $100 / hr, who are on a very high level of looks, similar to the best girls at Rio who are 8's and 9's and a few 10's? (And I'm NOT talking about snagging an average looking girl on the level of a 4 or a 5 which some on this thread might be satisfied with because of a lower price tag). Or whether getting a girl who is an 8 or a 9 off the street for under $100 / hr is an extremely difficult and rare occurence, in which case it is not comparable to the much easier and more efficient options at Rio or even the nightclubs.

I look forward to reading your posts for your upcoming trip. I hope you will share with us some of your insights about getting girls from the street, as reporting in this area has been weak. And if you decide to investigate the girl apartments, another area with little reporting, do tell what you find.

Lastly, I was told, not by a few Ukrainians, that Odessa is great in the summer time for girl hunting. Might be worth a look if you have time.

LJDear LJ.

Very good report and thanks for sharing your experiences.

I have been in Kiev several times and RP was not for me (girls starting with very expensive prices for a very short time).

Discos or Strip Clubs too much competition from other men and time consuming.

Streets or Shops, I was successful with some girls near to the main street Mc Donald and in Shopping Center like Karavan (a little far away from center). But the risk here is exactly what you mentioned NOT ALL ARE WG. Therefore, maybe you can let me know where are these streets with girls looking for some extra money, or is still the main street or Independence Sq, or which street / places? Or which Shopping Mall can you recommend for hunting?

Street Girls or Shopping Centers are for me easier because the 1:1 approach and not the hard competition in discos or strip clubs.

Regards,

LilJoey
06-19-11, 19:36
Dear LJ.

Very good report and thanks for sharing your experiences.

I have been in Kiev several times and RP was not for me (girls starting with very expensive prices for a very short time).

Discos or Strip Clubs too much competition from other men and time consuming.

Streets or Shops, I was successful with some girls near to the main street Mc Donald and in Shopping Center like Karavan (a little far away from center). But the risk here is exactly what you mentioned NOT ALL ARE WG. Therefore, maybe you can let me know where are these streets with girls looking for some extra money, or is still the main street or Independence Sq, or which street / places? Or which Shopping Mall can you recommend for hunting?

Street Girls or Shopping Centers are for me easier because the 1:1 approach and not the hard competition in discos or strip clubs.

Regards, Dear Sponsor74,

Your question about where are the best locations on the street or malls and shops to pick up girls who are interested in money for sex is an important question. However, this is one area in which I don't have sufficient personal knowledge to respond with solid recommendations. In fact, if you review my recent posts, I have been asking the same question to the guys who have claimed they have made many conquests on the streets of Kiev, even going so far as to claim that on the streets of Kiev there are 100s of beautiful girls who can be had for less than $100. I have asked these guys who claim experience in this area to fill us in on what locations are best, how they selected the girls to approach, how they approached the girls and what they said, how they got the girls to their apartment, how the issue of money for sex was safely raised, etc. I hope some guys will post reports with specific descriptions of what methods work best.

But I'm not sure why you say there is too much competition in strip club. From my experience, as soon as you see a girl dancing at Rio you are free to get up from your seat and approach her while she is dancing at her pole and ask her to come sit with you when she finishes her dances. So you can easily get to speak with any girl you like. Yes, of course, other guys may have also selected out some of the girls too. But it is not really too much competition like might be in a disco or nightclub.

Happy Hunting

And don't forget to post specifics about your successful approaches to street / shop girls, not just the sex details, but more importantly, the method and conversation and what worked. Be responsive to the questions that I added above. That will truly be helpful.

LJ

Irish Lad
06-20-11, 05:10
Welcome to Kiev but I must disagree with your explanation and Advice.

This is Kiev and anything is possible for someone with Game and bucket loads of confidence. They are the men who don't ask "I'm 54, is it ok if I talk with an 18 year old?". They're the guys who know where to find them and then go get them.


There's a far simpler explanation at work to explain the "success" of the guys here who say they've had a quality sexual experience with a beautiful girl they met on the street in Kiev for under $60, and that is that, quite simply, it is total bs, or it happened so long ago as to render it contextually meaningless. To suggest this is a viable approach for someone here for a long weekend in 2011 is ludicrous at best,

I make no pretense here. I'm an average looking guy with an average "game". And I'm 54. If you're a VERY good looking guy with a great game and are younger than me I'm sure you can do better than me given time. But we've already established that's a commodity that most of you don't have. End of story, as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't waste ten minutes pursuing this "poor Kiev girl on the street" nonsense actively if I were you and had only a 2-3 day window. Yes, if BY PURE CHANCE you meet a girl in a shop, bar, whatever, you might gently suggest something, but I wouldn't count on it at all. I suspect strongly that much of what I've read here has the same credibility as an old Penthouse letter to the editor.

Irish Lad
06-20-11, 05:17
Rio was done 5 years ago.

Has it become the GIA of strip clubs? .

Will be in Kyiv June 24 for two weeks.Yeah. I know a few of the girls working there now. It's past it's prime. Fajitas on Friday on you.

Stevie69
06-20-11, 11:33
Okay, perhaps women in Kiev, other than at strip bars, are average at best. One must then wonder how this myth of the beauty of Eastern European women ever developed, and why men continue to travel to Eastern Europe for the women. I could post photos from the street but the self-proclaimed authorities here would compare them to professional dancers, whom they have seen only in poor light, with heavy make-up and platform shoes and while inebriated, and declare them to be 'average'. Why bother? A cynic (not me!) might think that now that the RP is gone, Rio is trying to establish itself as destination of choice, and is using this forum for an online campaign.

When you go to Kiev, or other such vacation destinations in Eastern Europe, you will find that when it comes to approaching women, your balls have suddenly grown twice the size. It is just because there are so many beautiful women, so many targets. Of course, if you never had any balls, it will not make a difference (0 * 2 = 0). If you have ZERO game back home, wherever that is, the abundance of beautiful women will arouse you but also paralyse you with fear. Instead of it being a sexual paradise, with some freebies, you will instead end up frustrated and pay for sex several times more than what you pay for back home.

In my case, I find myself starting conversations with any beautiful woman who shows even a hint of being able to speak English, or French, or Spanish, or Italian. Somehow there is a transformation the moment I land at Boryspol. You know how you flirt with the waitress in front of your date just to make her jealous? Or how you used to behave when you were younger and hunted in packs? Well, it is as if suddenly, I am on a date and every girl is my waitress, or I have my old group of school buddies egging me to hit on girl who looks too good to pass up. Suddenly I am shameless, and I hope you all will agree that an initial contact is necessary for any conquest. Most men lose the game at that point, without even trying. For crying out loud, just say 'Hello, ' with a big smile to every pretty girl you meet, and compliment her on her nails, shoes, hair, etc. The only difference is that here the proportion of beautiful women is much higher, and more likely to respond positive if they can. Yes, language is the main, and in many cases, the only barrier.

Second, although it is not really necessary if you have a little game, it helps to have something to work with. I happen to be a youthful 40ish, mature enough to seem like I am serious and maybe have some money in my pocket, but slim and handsome enough to actually be reasonable attractive, in the short-term and / or and the long-term. From a distance, seeing me with a 19 year old cutie is not visually objectionable. And if it did, who cares! By the way, there is no real difference because 19 year old cuties often dress like grown women: elegant dresses and high heels.

For instance, once a girl I already knew had taken me to buy her or help her to buy shoes. It is weird that they expect to be bought shoes after a few times of 'free' sex. In any case, while she was trying on shoes, a salesgirl noticed my annoyed and bored look and we started to chat. By the time we got out, she had given me her number and 2 days later we were in bed. Maybe she also expected me to buy her shoes! On another case, I was taking the funicular up to the blue church and I noticed a gorgeous girl looking at me out while I was taking some photos. I did not care for the church or course! My opening line was a simple and stupid 'beautiful church! How old is it? ' We walked and talked the length of Kreshatick to my apartment. She had been walking all day, up and down like they do, so she welcomed the rest. I paid $50 'for her taxi' back home. I once met the 3 young guys first at McD, regular guys in jeans and T-shirts, and then suddenly we got joined by three gorgeous babes dressed in club attire: expensive heels and minidresses. After McD, the guys went home and the girls headed to a club, and secretly told me to show up later. I did, and ended up spending the night with one of the girls, technically for 'free' but in reality for a total cost of about 70 USD. Other similar 'free' incidents include a hostess at a nightclub, a make-up counter girl, a couple of girls who just happened to sit at a nearby table, a girl at a park, and at least 3 waitresses. Of course, I did not plan on any of these adventures, but I was ready when the opportunities presented themselves.

You might think that you have to differentiate the pros from the non pros, but in reality, they are all semi-pros. I had a 'girlfriend' who openly told me that once she missed the last bus to her city and could not afford a taxi, so she just found a half-decent looking taxi driver and blew him for a 140 km drive. She was not stupid either; she gave a partial hand job at the start and completed the deal with she was 2/3 of the way there. She recounted the story as if there was nothing wrong with it, and to her, there was not. Most of these girls start wearing miniskirts and high heels by the time they are 14, and quickly learn to use their money-makers. In any case, when suggesting closing the deal, you do not have to be so direct, and you do not have to bring up the subject of money for sex. Instead, just suggest going back to your apartment to 'relax', 'freshen up', 'have a drink', 'watch a movie' or 'change clothes'. She will know what you mean.

On weekends they will close the main street to vehicular traffic and girls will put on their sexiest summer outfits and high heels and just walk up and down all day, looking for something (or someone?) to do. They walk up and down all day! I have seen the same girls walking for over 6 hours, in high heels! Oddly, a lot of women dress up and walk with their children, and you will also see some men with their wives (and children) ; the woman in a sexy dress and high heels; I do not know whose idea or fun this is, the man's of the woman's? Make your foreigner status evident for everyone; wear NY Yankees hat, carry a camera, smile from ear to ear, talk in English on your phone, whatever! When you stop to see some of the street acts, and there are many, just say 'sorry' or 'excuse me', or 'good music' to the pretty girl standing beside you. If she gives you a second look, say something bolder, and if she responds, you are in. They have NOTHING to do! I have seen girls killing two hours by going into a café and order a coffee and two cookies. So, even if they are not full-time pros, they will appreciate a little conversation (if they speak English) , a free ice cream, drink, meal or some extra money. Of course, do not waste all day on one girl; after 20 minutes suggest going to your place or meeting later, perhaps that evening.

As the evening approaches the more serious pros will come out. In this case, they will openly make eye contact and smile at you. You go sit with them chat for 3 minutes, check them out up close, and soon enough they suggest going to your place, for a price. Here you will get everything, from older women (30ish) to cute young students (20ish). Again about $100 per girl is more than reasonable, and is often he starting offer. They will often be in pairs and they will try to sell the group deal.

Of course, none of this means that you should limit yourself to the street action, but while the other venues (Budha, Avalon, and even Rio) fill up, or on your way there, it might be a cheap alternative. Just be ready for the opportunity. The internet (mamba, Gia, to models, etc) are also viable alternatives, and they are great. There are people like fishing at a fish farm, where fish have been put in high densities for your convenience to ensure you catch something regardless of your fishing abilities; others like to fish in an actual stream or lake. Some people cook their own meals, others like to order in. Rather than getting a girl from a group conveniently gathered for you at the strip bar, or having a girl you have ordered from the internet delivered to your door, to me there is certain pleasure and a greater sense of conquest in having sex with a beutiful girl you have picked up yourself from the wild.

Drgn
06-20-11, 12:54
Welcome to Kiev but I must disagree with your explanation and Advice.

This is Kiev and anything is possible for someone with Game and bucket loads of confidence. They are the men who don't ask "I'm 54, is it ok if I talk with an 18 year old?". They're the guys who know where to find them and then go get them. Finally, someone gets it. BTW, this applies to MOST major cities. As I mentioned long ago on ISG, if you don't already know how to walk up to a woman in a lounge, coffee shop, mall, cigar bar, art gallery, night club, etc, engage her and lead that interaction where you want it to go, then ANY explanation/instructions given here are worthless. There are a million little things happening all at once during an interaction, and for guys that "get it", they're doing the right things automatically. An attractive woman KNOWS when a guy "gets it" and will behave very differently with him then she did with the last dozen "tools". (Again, the guys who get it are nodding as they read this...)

One reason no one is responding to the question is because the question ITSELF shows the poster to be too far behind in the race. Any answer given will still result in failure on the part of the original poster, not because the advice is bad, but rather the skills just aren't there. Someone can tell you where to go, what to say, etc. but until you've done it enough times for those behaviors to become automatic, then you'll just give off a weird, creepy vibe that freaks out most women worth having. Or, you'll stammer, hem and haw like an idiot, and she'll blow you off for being a "loser". And, what often happens on ISG is the poster will then claim that the person giving them advice was full of sh*t. Then some other equally "challenged" forum members will raise their voices in agreement. (Amazing how that pattern plays itself out year after year on this board...) It is at this point the person posting the advice learns "For those that know, no explanation is necessary. For those that don't know, no explanation will help..."

KievGuy
06-20-11, 15:02
Finally, someone gets it. BTW, this applies to MOST major cities. As I mentioned long ago on ISG, if you don't already know how to walk up to a woman in a lounge, coffee shop, mall, cigar bar, art gallery, night club, etc, engage her and lead that interaction where you want it to go, then ANY explanation / instructions given here are worthless. There are a million little things happening all at once during an interaction, and for guys that "get it", they're doing the right things automatically. An attractive woman KNOWS when a guy "gets it" and will behave very differently with him then she did with the last dozen "tools". (Again, the guys who get it are nodding as they read this.)

One reason no one is responding to the question is because the question ITSELF shows the poster to be too far behind in the race. Any answer given will still result in failure on the part of the original poster, not because the advice is bad, but rather the skills just aren't there. Someone can tell you where to go, what to say, etc. But until you've done it enough times for those behaviors to become automatic, then you'll just give off a weird, creepy vibe that freaks out most women worth having. Or, you'll stammer, hem and haw like an idiot, and she'll blow you off for being a "loser". And, what often happens on ISG is the poster will then claim that the person giving them advice was full of sh*t. Then some other equally "challenged" forum members will raise their voices in agreement. (Amazing how that pattern plays itself out year after year on this board.) It is at this point the person posting the advice learns "For those that know, no explanation is necessary. For those that don't know, no explanation will help."You're both wrong. I have plenty of confidence and have had good success here. I know very well how to approach a woman but every culture is different and only an idiot will act exactly as they have in their home country without trying to see if their adopted culture is any different. I certainly have no idea about Ireland, but in America it is unacceptable socially to be dating a woman who could conceivably be carrying your great granddaughter. The fact that I wanted to find out says nothing about confidence and everything about recognition of acceptable norms in different societies.

As for the rest, yes, I must assume you are two of the people who have graced these pages with your Penthouse stories. I'm not saying you're lying. I don't know. I am dating a 22 year old right now, so anything is possible. What I AM saying is that someone who is here for a long weekend who tries the poor working girl on the street strategy certainly has a low probability for success. If it worked for you great, but don't kid yourself into thinking it's because you're James Bond. No, you were lucky, you had money, and she didn't. I get lucky also. Everyone does. Yes, you make some of your own luck, but is that really what you want to count on during your big vacation?

I started out looking here because I thought I might get some good tips about where to go but so far I haven't had much luck with the recommended places. I've found my own, and shared a few tidbits. I thought I could get a few useful tips about cultural differences as well. Since I've lived here a while now, I don't really need this website anymore, if I ever did. The fact that after several years you still do shows that, for all your bravado, it's pretty evident you still need all the help you can get. It's also pretty indicative that a guy who comes from a country with some of the most beautiful women on earth and has (according to his own inflated account of himself) an almost unworldly rapport with women still needs to, at great expense, fly across Europe to pay for his pussy is deluding himself and certainly anyone else on these boards.

Sponsor74
06-20-11, 19:28
Finally, someone gets it. BTW, this applies to MOST major cities. As I mentioned long ago on ISG, if you don't already know how to walk up to a woman in a lounge, coffee shop, mall, cigar bar, art gallery, night club, etc, engage her and lead that interaction where you want it to go, then ANY explanation / instructions given here are worthless. There are a million little things happening all at once during an interaction, and for guys that "get it", they're doing the right things automatically. An attractive woman KNOWS when a guy "gets it" and will behave very differently with him then she did with the last dozen "tools". (Again, the guys who get it are nodding as they read this.)

One reason no one is responding to the question is because the question ITSELF shows the poster to be too far behind in the race. Any answer given will still result in failure on the part of the original poster, not because the advice is bad, but rather the skills just aren't there. Someone can tell you where to go, what to say, etc. But until you've done it enough times for those behaviors to become automatic, then you'll just give off a weird, creepy vibe that freaks out most women worth having. Or, you'll stammer, hem and haw like an idiot, and she'll blow you off for being a "loser". And, what often happens on ISG is the poster will then claim that the person giving them advice was full of sh*t. Then some other equally "challenged" forum members will raise their voices in agreement. (Amazing how that pattern plays itself out year after year on this board.) It is at this point the person posting the advice learns "For those that know, no explanation is necessary. For those that don't know, no explanation will help."Hello, agree with you and the approach is something very personal BUT my question remains the same where is the best place, street shop to find them. Kiev is a big city and the transportation without language not an easy task. If we all concentrate in the mainstreet, then soon is going to be too much men there for these girls and the prices will go up

Prosal
06-20-11, 20:30
you had money, and she didn't.Obviously the fact that relationships with women can exist without money being the primary motivation is beyond your comprehension.

It sounds like it has been a while since the last time you were with a girl who didn't expect any financial benefice but simply liked you as a person. If that ever happened.

Drgn
06-20-11, 21:05
I started out looking here because I thought I might get some good tips about where to go but so far I haven't had much luck with the recommended places. I've found my own, and shared a few tidbits. I thought I could get a few useful tips about cultural differences as well. Since I've lived here a while now, I don't really need this website anymore, if I ever did. The fact that after several years you still do shows that, for all your bravado, it's pretty evident you still need all the help you can get. It's also pretty indicative that a guy who comes from a country with some of the most beautiful women on earth and has (according to his own inflated account of himself) an almost unworldly rapport with women still needs to, at great expense, fly across Europe to pay for his pussy is deluding himself and certainly anyone else on these boards. [/QUOTE]And it begins. Really, Wow. You made a number of erroneous assumptions which I'm not going to bother addressing. Further, who said anything about flying to Europe to PAY for pussy? BTW, thanks for pointing out how much help I need. That's cute.

LilJoey
06-21-11, 05:02
Okay, perhaps women in Kiev, other than at strip bars, are average at best. One must then wonder how this myth of the beauty of Eastern European women ever developed, and why men continue to travel to Eastern Europe for the women. I could post photos from the street but the self-proclaimed authorities here would compare them to professional dancers, whom they have seen only in poor light, with heavy make-up and platform shoes and while inebriated, and declare them to be 'average'. Why bother? A cynic (not me!) might think that now that the RP is gone, Rio is trying to establish itself as destination of choice, and is using this forum for an online campaign.

When you go to Kiev, or other such vacation destinations in Eastern Europe, you will find that when it comes to approaching women, your balls have suddenly grown twice the size. It is just because there are so many beautiful women, so many targets. Of course, if you never had any balls, it will not make a difference (0 * 2 = 0). If you have ZERO game back home, wherever that is, the abundance of beautiful women will arouse you but also paralyse you with fear. Instead of it being a sexual paradise, with some freebies, you will instead end up frustrated and pay for sex several times more than what you pay for back home.

In my case, I find myself starting conversations with any beautiful woman who shows even a hint of being able to speak English, or French, or Spanish, or Italian. Somehow there is a transformation the moment I land at Boryspol. You know how you flirt with the waitress in front of your date just to make her jealous? Or how you used to behave when you were younger and hunted in packs? Well, it is as if suddenly, I am on a date and every girl is my waitress, or I have my old group of school buddies egging me to hit on girl who looks too good to pass up. Suddenly I am shameless, and I hope you all will agree that an initial contact is necessary for any conquest. Most men lose the game at that point, without even trying. For crying out loud, just say 'Hello, ' with a big smile to every pretty girl you meet, and compliment her on her nails, shoes, hair, etc. The only difference is that here the proportion of beautiful women is much higher, and more likely to respond positive if they can. Yes, language is the main, and in many cases, the only barrier.

Second, although it is not really necessary if you have a little game, it helps to have something to work with. I happen to be a youthful 40ish, mature enough to seem like I am serious and maybe have some money in my pocket, but slim and handsome enough to actually be reasonable attractive, in the short-term and / or and the long-term. From a distance, seeing me with a 19 year old cutie is not visually objectionable. And if it did, who cares! By the way, there is no real difference because 19 year old cuties often dress like grown women: elegant dresses and high heels.

For instance, once a girl I already knew had taken me to buy her or help her to buy shoes. It is weird that they expect to be bought shoes after a few times of 'free' sex. In any case, while she was trying on shoes, a salesgirl noticed my annoyed and bored look and we started to chat. By the time we got out, she had given me her number and 2 days later we were in bed. Maybe she also expected me to buy her shoes! On another case, I was taking the funicular up to the blue church and I noticed a gorgeous girl looking at me out while I was taking some photos. I did not care for the church or course! My opening line was a simple and stupid 'beautiful church! How old is it? ' We walked and talked the length of Kreshatick to my apartment. She had been walking all day, up and down like they do, so she welcomed the rest. I paid $50 'for her taxi' back home. I once met the 3 young guys first at McD, regular guys in jeans and T-shirts, and then suddenly we got joined by three gorgeous babes dressed in club attire: expensive heels and minidresses. After McD, the guys went home and the girls headed to a club, and secretly told me to show up later. I did, and ended up spending the night with one of the girls, technically for 'free' but in reality for a total cost of about 70 USD. Other similar 'free' incidents include a hostess at a nightclub, a make-up counter girl, a couple of girls who just happened to sit at a nearby table, a girl at a park, and at least 3 waitresses. Of course, I did not plan on any of these adventures, but I was ready when the opportunities presented themselves.

You might think that you have to differentiate the pros from the non pros, but in reality, they are all semi-pros. I had a 'girlfriend' who openly told me that once she missed the last bus to her city and could not afford a taxi, so she just found a half-decent looking taxi driver and blew him for a 140 km drive. She was not stupid either; she gave a partial hand job at the start and completed the deal with she was 2/3 of the way there. She recounted the story as if there was nothing wrong with it, and to her, there was not. Most of these girls start wearing miniskirts and high heels by the time they are 14, and quickly learn to use their money-makers. In any case, when suggesting closing the deal, you do not have to be so direct, and you do not have to bring up the subject of money for sex. Instead, just suggest going back to your apartment to 'relax', 'freshen up', 'have a drink', 'watch a movie' or 'change clothes'. She will know what you mean.

On weekends they will close the main street to vehicular traffic and girls will put on their sexiest summer outfits and high heels and just walk up and down all day, looking for something (or someone?) to do. They walk up and down all day! I have seen the same girls walking for over 6 hours, in high heels! Oddly, a lot of women dress up and walk with their children, and you will also see some men with their wives (and children) ; the woman in a sexy dress and high heels; I do not know whose idea or fun this is, the man's of the woman's? Make your foreigner status evident for everyone; wear NY Yankees hat, carry a camera, smile from ear to ear, talk in English on your phone, whatever! When you stop to see some of the street acts, and there are many, just say 'sorry' or 'excuse me', or 'good music' to the pretty girl standing beside you. If she gives you a second look, say something bolder, and if she responds, you are in. They have NOTHING to do! I have seen girls killing two hours by going into a café and order a coffee and two cookies. So, even if they are not full-time pros, they will appreciate a little conversation (if they speak English) , a free ice cream, drink, meal or some extra money. Of course, do not waste all day on one girl; after 20 minutes suggest going to your place or meeting later, perhaps that evening.

As the evening approaches the more serious pros will come out. In this case, they will openly make eye contact and smile at you. You go sit with them chat for 3 minutes, check them out up close, and soon enough they suggest going to your place, for a price. Here you will get everything, from older women (30ish) to cute young students (20ish). Again about $100 per girl is more than reasonable, and is often he starting offer. They will often be in pairs and they will try to sell the group deal.

Of course, none of this means that you should limit yourself to the street action, but while the other venues (Budha, Avalon, and even Rio) fill up, or on your way there, it might be a cheap alternative. Just be ready for the opportunity. The internet (mamba, Gia, to models, etc) are also viable alternatives, and they are great. There are people like fishing at a fish farm, where fish have been put in high densities for your convenience to ensure you catch something regardless of your fishing abilities; others like to fish in an actual stream or lake. Some people cook their own meals, others like to order in. Rather than getting a girl from a group conveniently gathered for you at the strip bar, or having a girl you have ordered from the internet delivered to your door, to me there is certain pleasure and a greater sense of conquest in having sex with a beutiful girl you have picked up yourself from the wild. Dear Stevie69.

That was a great post. I had hoped that if I pressed your buttons long enough with questions challenging your conclusions that you might respond with some helpful details and descriptions. Or maybe I'm deluded and it was some other poster's remarks that finally motivaterd you to share, but in the end you have come through for all those waiting for some good writing on the topic of meeting Kiev girls on the streets.

Contrary to Drgn's recent posts, which were thoroughly unhelpful to anyone reading the forum, your generous spirit in sharing your experience and insights, will hopefully inspire others who have been successful with girls on the streets of Kiev to also write about their exploits, and this will enrich the knowledge base as well as entertain the readership, which I think should be the goals of every poster.

DRGN's post.

Drgn, don't get me wrong. I actually agree with your point that some guys have an innate talent for being successful with woman and other guys are less successful and still other guys are clueless and lack this natural charisma and talent. It is an observable fact and is quite true. There are some guys that always seem to have gorgeous women. They have natural talent and possess a certain skills set that we have come to call "game". As well, it is also true that there are numerous things going on during any man / woman interaction, any one of which could contribute to success or disaster in myriad ways. But the part of your post that I take issue with is the part in which you opine that it is worthless to try to help or give advice to those others who do not have as much natural talent as you might have.

Drgn I'm sure you didn't intend to come off sounding arrogant and smug while describing the true disabilities that someone without a lot of "game" might face trying to get some girl action in Kiev, but some might take your words that way. While it might be true that you won't be able to transform just anyone into a superstar girl hound with great "game", it is patently not true that all other guys are creepy geeks that are so hopeless when it comes to getting and keeping hot women that there is not even any point in giving other guys some pointers. It's not a black and white issue. Guys are not either great with women or horribly handicapped geeks. There are many shades in between, as you surely realize, and many guys who do ok with normal non pro women on their own turf, but who are unfamiliar with the ins and outs of how things are in Kiev who might benefit from reading some of your "war stories".

What you failed to appreciate is that even guys who are charming and do well with normal non prostitute women, might benefit from some pointers directed at the different operating environment in Kiev, where there are cultural differences, as well as the fact that the students being sought after in Kiev are teenagers or girls in their early 20s amenable to sex for money due to the special circumstances in EE, and the average mongers on this board are guys in their 40s and 50s, many of whom have been married before and are now divorced / widowed and enjoying this hobby with their new freedom. These are not guys without girl skills, just guys who are coming back into the "game" after a long time out, and some pointers on the way things are now in Kiev would be helpful.

Lastly, I also disagree with your premise that you either "have it" or you don't, when it comes to girl chasing skills. Yes, there are guys who come by their understanding of what motivates women naturally, but there are things that can be learned that can help many guys improve their "game". Therre are a number of attempts at systematizing how to do better with women. It's an active area of self help literature. Take a look, for example, at offerings like doubleyourdates. Com which tries to teach guys how to improve themselves in this area, with many good pieces of advice, not the least of which is watching and listening to and learning from those guys to whom it comes naturally.

So Drgn, if you ever decide to use your obviously good writing skills to try to be of help to others on this forum, and write about your exploits, and offer pointers, it will surely not be worthless to those reading the forum, if only for the entertainment value. Take this post by Stevie69 as an example. Your contribution will be appreciated too.

LJ

Insomniaque
06-21-11, 14:08
Really, Wow. You made a number of erroneous assumptions which I'm not going to bother addressing.Upon reading this, my first thought was,"My, what a jerk." But I read your posts (all your posts, from 2002 on the BsAs thread, etc.) so as to know who I was dealing with; and it so happens that I read them with much interest. You have very interesting things to say. That makes your present attitude all the more regrettable.

Let me tell you what the truth is. When a dude starts the hobby, he will jump all over the place and will flood the thread, even with the most trivial details; but as he gets more and more experienced, his posts will grow scarce; not that there are no readers who wouldn't be quite happy to learn from him, but simply he has got bored and, in fact, doesn't really need such a tool as ISG any more. As sad as it is for those of us who still lack knowledge and experience, those who bother posting are often those who need advice; it is the natural way.

The "I won't take any pain to try and teach you something that you guys are anyway unable to learn" line is just a fucking lame excuse. It's not that the guys in question are not willing and able to learn; it's just that you are not willing to teach. Up to you of course, but then please do not insult my fucking intelligence on top of that.

I first went to Ukraine only 3 years and a half ago, and started mongering at the same time; everything was new to me and I was so fucking amazed at those Ukrainian girls, I would not mind paying what I would now consider a total rip off. But as you get experienced, you will have higher expectations, and my perspective is no longer what it used to be. And I have realised that, to a large extent, I had got it wrong right from the start. I was concerned about things which are, in fact, irrelevant. The GAME is the only thing that really matters. Now I am here to improve my game which is, I hate to admit it, average at best; but still better than 3 years ago.

As far as I can see, a good game comes from self-confidence and a clear understanding of what the fuck is happening inside a woman's head. And clearly, not all men are equal in this respect; some may have a natural insight or an innate ability to guess the way women work, while some others will keep seeing female psychology and behaviour as an abstruse foreign language. I have been part of the latter for way too long, and I am just beginning to understand a couple of things, and this unveils a new world of possibilities. Yet again, I have no innate ability and this is really something I have to learn. And this is where the more talented or experienced players could help. This is a game, the rules of which are female psychology; and it is not because you have not been smart enough to figure out the rules by yourself that you will not be able to play, once you have been taught by someone else.

Drgn
06-21-11, 15:11
Dear Stevie69.

That was a great post. I had hoped that if I pressed your buttons long enough with questions challenging your conclusions that you might respond with some helpful details and descriptions. Or maybe I'm deluded and it was some other poster's remarks that finally motivaterd you to share, but in the end you have come through for all those waiting for some good writing on the topic of meeting Kiev girls on the streets.

Contrary to Drgn's recent posts, which were thoroughly unhelpful to anyone reading the forum, your generous spirit in sharing your experience and insights, will hopefully inspire others who have been successful with girls on the streets of Kiev to also write about their exploits, and this will enrich the knowledge base as well as entertain the readership, which I think should be the goals of every poster.

DRGN's post.

Drgn, don't get me wrong. I actually agree with your point that some guys have an innate talent for being successful with woman and other guys are less successful and still other guys are clueless and lack this natural charisma and talent. It is an observable fact and is quite true. There are some guys that always seem to have gorgeous women. They have natural talent and possess a certain skills set that we have come to call "game". As well, it is also true that there are numerous things going on during any man / woman interaction, any one of which could contribute to success or disaster in myriad ways. But the part of your post that I take issue with is the part in which you opine that it is worthless to try to help or give advice to those others who do not have as much natural talent as you might have.

Drgn I'm sure you didn't intend to come off sounding arrogant and smug while describing the true disabilities that someone without a lot of "game" might face trying to get some girl action in Kiev, but some might take your words that way. While it might be true that you won't be able to transform just anyone into a superstar girl hound with great "game", it is patently not true that all other guys are creepy geeks that are so hopeless when it comes to getting and keeping hot women that there is not even any point in giving other guys some pointers. It's not a black and white issue. Guys are not either great with women or horribly handicapped geeks. There are many shades in between, as you surely realize, and many guys who do ok with normal non pro women on their own turf, but who are unfamiliar with the ins and outs of how things are in Kiev who might benefit from reading some of your "war stories".

What you failed to appreciate is that even guys who are charming and do well with normal non prostitute women, might benefit from some pointers directed at the different operating environment in Kiev, where there are cultural differences, as well as the fact that the students being sought after in Kiev are teenagers or girls in their early 20s amenable to sex for money due to the special circumstances in EE, and the average mongers on this board are guys in their 40s and 50s, many of whom have been married before and are now divorced / widowed and enjoying this hobby with their new freedom. These are not guys without girl skills, just guys who are coming back into the "game" after a long time out, and some pointers on the way things are now in Kiev would be helpful.

Lastly, I also disagree with your premise that you either "have it" or you don't, when it comes to girl chasing skills. Yes, there are guys who come by their understanding of what motivates women naturally, but there are things that can be learned that can help many guys improve their "game". Therre are a number of attempts at systematizing how to do better with women. It's an active area of self help literature. Take a look, for example, at offerings like doubleyourdates. Com which tries to teach guys how to improve themselves in this area, with many good pieces of advice, not the least of which is watching and listening to and learning from those guys to whom it comes naturally.

So Drgn, if you ever decide to use your obviously good writing skills to try to be of help to others on this forum, and write about your exploits, and offer pointers, it will surely not be worthless to those reading the forum, if only for the entertainment value. Take this post by Stevie69 as an example. Your contribution will be appreciated too.

LJOriginally, my intent was to refrain from any 'debate' on this subject, but what the hell. There seems to be more than a little confusion about some of my post. At no point did I ever imply a guy was somehow eternally doomed if Mother Nature didn't bless him with innate skills with women. On the contrary, I stated certain behaviors had to be REPEATED until they became automatic. If the behaviors are not automatic, the average guy will tend to get in his own way. Beautiful women in a major city get hit on constantly, and after a certain point it just becomes annoying. If a newbie (who's asking for advice about meeting women on ISG) approaches this beautiful 9 or 10, she will BLOW HIM OUT like he doesn't even exist. Or, he will not know what to say after the lines we gave him run out and he'll stammer trying to figure out what comes next. (IF HE KNEW WHAT TO SAY HE WOULDN'T BE ASKING HERE!) In that woman's mind, he's now just another annoying, creepy guy, like the last 10 guys that did the same thing with her that morning.

Simply, there are two types of guys who 'get it': the 'naturals' and the guys who've spent time in the field talking to hundreds (or thousands) of women. Take a moment and think about the 9 or 10 from your trip that made you just drool with lust. Maybe you saw her in a night club, a strip club, or just walking down the street. If you were to gather 100 of those women and then talk to their BOYFRIENDS / LOVERS, you'the find their men 'get it'. Occasionally, there will be exceptions, but on average, their men match a certain profile. (Even if she's dating someone for money, she still cheats with someone who 'gets it'.) You could repeat this exercise in major cities around the globe, and you'the encounter the same general pattern. Now ask yourself how closely do you match that profile, primarily as it relates to BEHAVIOR?

Some guys seem hung up on cultural differences. Do they exist? Of course. Are they that important? Less than you think. Culture is learned, while the behaviors involved in male-female attraction are hardwired and universal. (I could get all geeky and cite the scientists that did this research back in 1960, but this post is already too long). For a golfer, it's like comparing Augusta to Pebble Beach, where the course is different but the underlying fundamentals and skills are the same. For all these divorced guys with 'great game', if they truly had a mastery of the fundamentals, then they could easily make the cultural adjustments with a little field time. This assumes he already gets rhythm, timing, body language, tone of voice, vibing, with, charm, eye contact, knows when and how to advance, when to pull back, how to connect, when to turn up the heat sexually, how to change her mood to change her responses, when to let her chase him, how to identify women that are ready to go NOW, how to tell which women in a venue are totally into him and how to leverage that to get more / better women, how to structure / screen for a short term sexual encounter vs a relationship, etc, etc, etc. Most important: a willingness to make mistakes, learn from them and move forward. We can't give someone a treatise that covers all of these areas. Plus, most of it won't make sense until it's been internalized through repetition. Hence, the dilemma.

The other thing I've noticed is many posters exhibit a strange behavior where when presented with a story that seems unfamiliar, they ridicule it as being untrue. Once validity is established, they accuse the story teller of boasting. Surprisingly, there is no middle ground. The point is no matter how well, or poorly, I do in any area of life (socially, professionally, financially) , I'm always aware there are others higher up the food chain. Their reality simply represents my next target. And the next. And the next.

Irish Lad
06-21-11, 17:36
here are 3 reports i made going back over 4 years. i feel they are still valid.


hello all,

here's some advice which i hope is helpful to all.

the ukrainian art of seduction lies somewhere between taming a wild horse and [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123).

the more times they ask a girl to sleep with them, the bigger the compliment. 10 times will usually do it.

don't bring your date to a club unless you're sure she's a 'done deal' and want to get some dancing done and / or you're looking for a 2nd girl to join you both.

if taking a date out to dinner, tell her what to wear and decide what she's eating. if you're a real gent you might ask her if there's anything she doesn't like before ordering her meal. after the meal, if you're not clubbing, tell her you have some champagne and chocolates at home where it will be more comfortable to talk. try to not be interested in her reply. it wasn't a negotiation.

if you meet a girl in a club and she gives you her number, you can either arrange to meet her during the week if you're a dr skank or cruiser d who know she's 'in the bag' and are just juggling their diaries or sms her 2 minutes later telling her ' i want you. now'. you'll save time this way.

girls in kiev do find ties sexy. if you're in a suit on a thursday night then you're a serious person and your chances have just tripled. it pays to advertise.

if a girl approaches you and isn't on the 'cocktail' buzz then she's interested in you. if you like her then kiss her.

if you like a girl on the dance floor, pay good attention to her and let her know you're watching her dance. be relaxed but confident and smile at her. she'll either look away or she'll respond by dancing even better. if she responds then after the dance she'll come close enough to you so that you can introduce yourself to her and then kiss her.

if you're talking to a girl at the club and she looks at another girl as 90% of them will. ask her if she likes girls. if she says 'no, i like men'. kiss her. if she says 'yes' then say 'so do i' and then kiss her.

hope this helps.
1. i believe 50% of girls in clubs are available, for free or at a price. i've always felt any single girl is available all over the world. i of course could be wrong but maybe it is this belief that boosts my confidence and success rate. it's all a game anyway. either way, my point was that sex is easy and cheap in kiev and this reality should be your trump card when hunting in clubs. i was a frequent short term traveler to kiev before moving here last year and my success rate was 60% in clubs but ymmv. having said this i remember certain patterns that emerged for me back then. i never pulled the day i arrived. i never pulled on a saturday night. i never pulled in 112.

2. just because a percentage of girls are available, doesn't mean a short term traveler to kiev will pull. there are many reasons for this but 2 important ones are too much alcohol taken and bad attitude. if i have drunk too much i have almost no chance of pulling. being drunk means "loser" to ukrainian girls. the same for my bad mood days and the days when my coat ticket number is 13. this is life, but i still believe that anyone's success rate is 10 times higher here than in most other countries. it's also a question of being comfortable in whatever environment you're in. a fellow forum member, who is also a friend, has never in his life pulled in a club, yet is scoring 2/3 times a week from making dates in cafes and inviting them to his home.

3. i have never been told by a girl in ukraine that looks are important to her. good shoes rank 10 places higher in my opinion. i see supermodels all the time with ugly guys 30 years older than them in arena bar. when i see this situation in less financially obvious circumstances i think of the following reasons:- she loves him, he doesn't drink too much, he dresses her better than he dresses himself, he doesn't cheat too often, he works damn hard to provide for her or he would kill to protect her.

4. my taste in girls is very wide ranging so 'hotties' to you may not mean the same to me and vica versa. although there might be a high percentage of 9's and 10's in a club, i sometimes feel in the mood for a 6 with massive tits. i pointed out a girl to a friend of mine who has lived here for 14 years in a club one night saying 'she's my favourite here' and his reply was 'you're guaranteed to fuck her'. i asked why he thought so, and in between laughs he said 'because no one else in ukraine would'.
hello all,

there are many dating agencies in kiev but your best bet is to use one of the online ones.

www.destiny.com.ua

or.

www.singles.ru

they are basically the same site.

another one i had great success with is.

www.luckylovers.net

but they now charge females to join so the usage is down. also most of the paidup females here have had their membership paid for by other men so their authenticity is open to question. i suppose they are saying the same thing about men like us?

alternatively, you can do what i saw a guy do last week on kreschatyk st. he stood on the street for an hour collecting numbers from girls in the 9/10 category. i saw him collect 5. he had a good approach and made all the girls either smile or laugh and i'm sure he scored with one of them at some point.

as mentioned here before, there is a tendency to overplan visits to the ukraine and i am guilty of this in the past. please believe that no matter how goodlooking the girl you chat to online is, there will probably be a dozen better looking and available girls in the club you take your date to.

when looking to meet freebies in the ukraine i find it important to remember certain factors.

1. the fact that i am 41 is a good thing for 25 year old ukrainain girls.

2. the fact that i am not as skinny as a rake is another good thing.

3. that i treat women with respect works too.

4. that, just like in most parts of the world, i like to wine and dine my dates works. 1.000% more than in my own country.

what won't work is treating the girls like wh. s. i have seen a guy approach girls on this basis and he was essentially "blackballed" by the girls and any of her friends.

you can of course lie through your teeth and promise green cards etc to the girls to get them to sleep with you but i feel they know that trick by now. my advice is to be yourself, treat them well, and try not to be too pushy. if you do this and click with someone, don't worry, she'll jump you.

if you do this then you'll do 10 times better than in most other parts of the world. by this i mean, not knowing anything about you, that if you pull 5 times a year in your own town then you'll pull 50 times a year in ukraine. if you pull 3 times a month then you'll pull every night here. do your own maths for this. i'd even go so far as to say that if you click with one girl and she's busy the next night, she might ask you to take her friend out instead.

LilJoey
06-21-11, 19:24
Originally, my intent was to refrain from any 'debate' on this subject, but what the hell. There seems to be more than a little confusion about some of my post. At no point did I ever imply a guy was somehow eternally doomed if Mother Nature didn't bless him with innate skills with women. On the contrary, I stated certain behaviors had to be REPEATED until they became automatic. If the behaviors are not automatic, the average guy will tend to get in his own way. Beautiful women in a major city get hit on constantly, and after a certain point it just becomes annoying. If a newbie (who's asking for advice about meeting women on ISG) approaches this beautiful 9 or 10, she will BLOW HIM OUT like he doesn't even exist. Or, he will not know what to say after the lines we gave him run out and he'll stammer trying to figure out what comes next. (IF HE KNEW WHAT TO SAY HE WOULDN'T BE ASKING HERE!) In that woman's mind, he's now just another annoying, creepy guy, like the last 10 guys that did the same thing with her that morning.

Simply, there are two types of guys who 'get it': the 'naturals' and the guys who've spent time in the field talking to hundreds (or thousands) of women. Take a moment and think about the 9 or 10 from your trip that made you just drool with lust. Maybe you saw her in a night club, a strip club, or just walking down the street. If you were to gather 100 of those women and then talk to their BOYFRIENDS / LOVERS, you'the find their men 'get it'. Occasionally, there will be exceptions, but on average, their men match a certain profile. (Even if she's dating someone for money, she still cheats with someone who 'gets it'.) You could repeat this exercise in major cities around the globe, and you'the encounter the same general pattern. Now ask yourself how closely do you match that profile, primarily as it relates to BEHAVIOR?

Some guys seem hung up on cultural differences. Do they exist? Of course. Are they that important? Less than you think. Culture is learned, while the behaviors involved in male-female attraction are hardwired and universal. (I could get all geeky and cite the scientists that did this research back in 1960, but this post is already too long). For a golfer, it's like comparing Augusta to Pebble Beach, where the course is different but the underlying fundamentals and skills are the same. For all these divorced guys with 'great game', if they truly had a mastery of the fundamentals, then they could easily make the cultural adjustments with a little field time. This assumes he already gets rhythm, timing, body language, tone of voice, vibing, with, charm, eye contact, knows when and how to advance, when to pull back, how to connect, when to turn up the heat sexually, how to change her mood to change her responses, when to let her chase him, how to identify women that are ready to go NOW, how to tell which women in a venue are totally into him and how to leverage that to get more / better women, how to structure / screen for a short term sexual encounter vs a relationship, etc, etc, etc. Most important: a willingness to make mistakes, learn from them and move forward. We can't give someone a treatise that covers all of these areas. Plus, most of it won't make sense until it's been internalized through repetition. Hence, the dilemma.

The other thing I've noticed is many posters exhibit a strange behavior where when presented with a story that seems unfamiliar, they ridicule it as being untrue. Once validity is established, they accuse the story teller of boasting. Surprisingly, there is no middle ground. The point is no matter how well, or poorly, I do in any area of life (socially, professionally, financially) , I'm always aware there are others higher up the food chain. Their reality simply represents my next target. And the next. And the next. Since you are obviously able to articulate your understanding of the nuances, you actually would be a good person to learn from, if you would only be a little more generous with your knowledge, and tolerant of the inadequacies of others less blessed with the natural talents for girl chasing (and getting and keeping).

You have admitted that for those who are not naturals, it is possible to learn the important skills. You described this learning process as being accomplished through field experience and the process of talking to hundred or thousands of women, and assuming the individual concerned can understand the factors at play, learning from one's mistakes, and internalizing the lessons until the successful methods which one has discovered become internalized by repetition and become automatic enough to be effective fluidly in an interaction with any woman in any situation. Is that a fair description of your point of view?

But this simply means that each guy must go and reinvent the wheel for himself! It ignores the potential of collective knowledge upon which society is built. Simply put, the learning curve of all the guys trying to succeed in the field could be shortened and enhanced by the sharing of insights and knowledge from those who came before. There are many guys who would be helped on their individual learning curve of experience by cogent pointers. No one is suggesting you tire yourself out writing a treatise covering all those relevant aspects you mentioned, and more. Not that a treatise isn't a good idea and might make you a lot of money like the guy on the self help website I mentioned previously, but this forum is not the place. But what IS worth contributing to this forum are your stories about women you have succeeded with, and pointers on aspects you feel will enhance the capabilities of guys in the field doing what you yourself have written they should be doing, having experiences and learning from those experiences. If there's something that you know from experience does work, then share that insight, so that others can incorporate it into their efforts. No one is expecting magic. Everyone knows it depends on their own skills and execution. But female psychology does exist, and true insights into it are very helpful, and not always apparent.

LJ

Prosal
06-22-11, 11:15
Some guys seem hung up on cultural differences. Do they exist? Of course. Are they that important? Less than you think.As usual, all your remarks are spot on, yet I'd disagree on this one. The Russian mentality. It is important to change your frame of mind when dealing with Russian girls.

Of course, concepts like respect, charisma, personality, charm, empathy, with, humour, intelligence, culture, sentimentality and sensitivity, etc, come to mind when dealing with any girl, be it in FSU or in the West, but I would argue that you have to add those aspects that the Russian female likes and respects, which is being direct, manly, uncompromising, mischevious and even bad sometimes. Russian women want to be respected and charmed, but also dominated. Of course, you still can have a wonderful time with a Russian woman even you don't behave like a (nice) brute, but she will never really respect you if you don't. That is why, in my opinion, FSU girls are much more attracted to masculine, sort of "bad boy" looking guys.

Also, even the most ditzy Russian (and Ukrainian for that matter) women are suckers about their own culture. Most of guys who rave about slavic dievs don't know shit about the culture of the girls they want to fuck. That is simply silly. A Russian girl wants someone who is aware about her culture, someone she can communicate with, someone who knows her on a deeper cultural level. I could not emphasize more about the advantages to learn a bit about Russian and Ukrainian literature (for Ukraine, Gogol comes first to mind) , painting, music, ect. If your girl knows that you are not only with her for her ass, but also because you understand a bit where she comes from, know about it and appreciate it, believe me, the other guys (usually culturally totally unaware. 90% of the mongers travelling to Russia or Ukraine) who solely want to fuck her will not be able to compete with you. I've had dozens of time the proof of it.

Prosal
06-22-11, 11:19
3. I have never been told by a girl in Ukraine that looks are important to her. Good shoes rank 10 places higher in my opinion. .+1. Russian and Ukrainian girls are undoubtedly some of the most fashion-conscious women on earth, they dress to the tens, and anything less than a similarly stylish and well-groomed guy is not a guy worth fucking. But you need the real stuff. Fake and cheap gets you nowhere in FSU, it's a turn-off for 99% of the girls, who are VERY good at gauging what you wear.

A guy coming from the West and not dressed with style and refinement will be immediatly and irremediably categorized as a total loser. Many mongers travelling to FSU don't really realize it, but that's how is women's mentality in this part of the world. Style and clothes are more important than looks. Looks help of course, but it isn't a central theme with Russian girls.

Climaxnow
06-22-11, 22:30
So if 99% of E. E. Devs demand a man be well dressed to be worth a fuck, how come 99% of the girls photographed on this forum clearly wear cheap clothes?

So if a young guy with a nice hard dick, who is not hung up on money, competes against a fifty year old Westerner with Prada shoes, will he stand a chance?

How come the girlfriends of the slicksters / legends of this board are always strippers?

Prosal
06-22-11, 23:01
Prada shoesPrada shoes is shitty low-quality stuff, outrageously priced for what it is. My personal choice is Berluti. (wink)

Irish Lad
06-23-11, 01:07
So if 99% of E. E. Devs demand a man be well dressed to be worth a fuck, how come 99% of the girls photographed on this forum clearly wear cheap clothes?

So if a young guy with a nice hard dick, who is not hung up on money, competes against a fifty year old Westerner with Prada shoes, will he stand a chance?

How come the girlfriends of the slicksters / legends of this board are always strippers? Most photos I saw were naked.

Don't be ridiculous. Depends on the guys.

No idea, didn't make that deduction myself though.

You're missing the point or just a smartarse.

LifeSavour
06-23-11, 16:01
Prada shoes is shitty low-quality stuff, outrageously priced for what it is. My personal choice is Berluti. (wink). (53 shoe size) I wear what ever the fawk fits!

And I have DONE & still DO.

, Ochen Horosho!

LS 'sweet-talker' GUY!

LifeSavour
06-23-11, 16:05
+1. Russian and Ukrainian girls are undoubtedly some of the most fashion-conscious women on earth, they dress to the tens, and anything less than a similarly stylish and well-groomed guy is not a guy worth fucking. But you need the real stuff. Fake and cheap gets you nowhere in FSU, it's a turn-off for 99% of the girls, who are VERY good at gauging what you wear.

A guy coming from the West and not dressed with style and refinement will be immediatly and irremediably categorized as a total loser. Many mongers travelling to FSU don't really realize it, but that's how is women's mentality in this part of the world. Style and clothes are more important than looks. Looks help of course, but it isn't a central theme with Russian girls. See my other report!

Prosal
06-23-11, 17:20
You're missing the point or just a smartarse.I'd bet for the second.


So if a young guy with a nice hard dickSex is secondary to women. Any player with half a brain knows that.

BTW, there's some 2 billions males aged 19-40 yo on the planet, most of them with hard dicks and eager to fuck statuesque Slavic beauties.

Sponsor74
06-23-11, 18:27
Prada shoes is shitty low-quality stuff, outrageously priced for what it is. My personal choice is Berluti. (wink)Hello, besides hunting I try shopping in Ukraine: my opinion girls are great (of course with some exceptions) but for shopping not always the "best value for my money". Some exceptions: Wodky, Caviar, smoke articles, cafe. Regarding shoes it seems that gilr love this brand Prada (not my style and budget). I wonder who can buy these brands there? The WG? Or only the sex tourists?