Kyiv

[Prosal]

I wonder who can buy these brands there?Elite people. High-powered businessmen, artists, actors, politicians, and other members of high society. And their family. And their girls. And their girl's girlfriends ("Sacha, dorogoy, this poor Tatiana saw the Louboutin heels you bought me and is sick of jalousy, could you buy one pair also for her, so that we both can be beautiful for you when we'll go out together? Pleeeeease dorogoy"). Rich people in FSU are VERY generous with their money, especially when it comes to young females.


smoke articlesCigars are expensive, almost western prices x 2. Smoking cigars is still a "elite" hobby in this part of the world.

153065

[Prosal]

Regarding shoes it seems that gilr love this brand Prada (not my style and budget)Louboutin is the Slavic girl's wettest dream.

http://www.christianlouboutin.com/#/intro

[Sorbonne]

Guys!

I know this has been talked about in this thread, but I can't find it, even with the search function.

My question is how I can buy the generic Viagra in Kiev.

My trip to Kiev is 2 weeks away, and if I order online now from the US where I live, it might take more than 2 weeks for generic Viagra to arrive from India to the US.

Please help!

[LifeSavour]

Guys!

I know this has been talked about in this thread, but I can't find it, even with the search function.

My question is how I can buy the generic Viagra in Kiev.

My trip to Kiev is 2 weeks away, and if I order online now from the US where I live, it might take more than 2 weeks for generic Viagra to arrive from India to the US.

Please help!GenAgra from India I think. 25mg up to 100mg tabs.

Works great, it most all 'Aptekas'!

[AColonizer]

Is anybody interested in this girl? What would you like to do with her? (It is her surname in picture titles.)

[Jahsa]

Is anybody interested in this girl? What would you like to do with her? (It is her surname in picture titles.)Sure I'm interested in this girl. She is nice. What I want to do with? All what's possible to do, all what she want to do. Have a drink, go to eat with, go to to the concert, or to visit a museum and so. And if she want more intim, it will be the best.

[Sorbonne]

GenAgra from India I think. 25mg up to 100mg tabs.

Works great, it most all 'Aptekas'! So you are saying I can go to any Aptekas in Kiev and ask for GenAgra, right?

Thanks, and you are truly a life savor! You may have indeed created one. :)

[Me and You]

Is anybody interested in this girl? What would you like to do with her? (It is her surname in picture titles.)Dude I tried to send you a private pm but your mail box is full. Can you send her contact or link. I can reward you with some contacts.

Thanks

[Hercules78]

Guys,

I'm 38 and single and reasonably good looking (but of middle eastern descent). I live in US and ocassionally travelled to Frankfurt on business. After I read these forums a couple of years ago I started visiting FKKs and now have made several trips over past few years. I have a one week vacation coming up and reading all these forums makes me want to start planning trip. What do you think, would it be better to go hang out in Kiev for one week or should I go to FKK again? I would love to have an attractive blonde girl GFE by my side for a whole night (Girl Friend Experience). Do you think I'll be dissapointed if I made Kiev a destination vs FKKs or what? Any pros and cons?

Thanks.

[LifeSavour]

So you are saying I can go to any Aptekas in Kiev and ask for GenAgra, right?

Thanks, and you are truly a life savor! You may have indeed created one.And even some other generic ones too! No problem!

Ps. I've even gotten some nice KNOWING smiles from the gal pharmacist!

[Harry Hirsch]

Guys,

I'm 38 and single and reasonably good looking (but of middle eastern descent). I live in US and ocassionally travelled to Frankfurt on business. After I read these forums a couple of years ago I started visiting FKKs and now have made several trips over past few years. I have a one week vacation coming up and reading all these forums makes me want to start planning trip. What do you think, would it be better to go hang out in Kiev for one week or should I go to FKK again? I would love to have an attractive blonde girl GFE by my side for a whole night (Girl Friend Experience). Do you think I'll be dissapointed if I made Kiev a destination vs FKKs or what? Any pros and cons?

Thanks. This is very easy.

I'm from Germany, when you make holiday in Germany go to FKK Club, All your Money been in Germany)

You have Fun and you are happy and ME too, not must pay so much Tax to Goverment)

I can fly at my next Holiday to KIEV, I like it.

Beautiful Girl, I not must pay more than 200Dollar for a beautiful Girl for one Night.

When I sponsoring a girl for 4 night and 3 days I must pay 5555grn)

Ore for one week 8000grivna.

This is a great Girlfriend experience, I love it.

The best is, if you need help for a girl with longtime sponsoring (more than 3 nights) I can help you.

[Insomniaque]

Is anybody interested in this girl? What would you like to do with her? (It is her surname in picture titles.)Not the first time you post these photos asking the same kind of questions. Turning into a pimp or what?

[CaptainNemo]

There are two airports in Kiev.

KBP: Borispol. This is the main airport.

IEV: Zhulhany.

Could someone please tell me.

How far is IEV from the city center? How much is it for taxi? Is there a bus service to the city center? Where to catch it?

How far is IEV to KBP? How much is it for taxi? Is there a bus service?

Thanks

[Harry Hirsch]

How far is IEV from the city center? How much is it for taxi? Is there a bus service to the city center? Where to catch it?

How far is IEV to KBP? How much is it for taxi? Is there a bus service?

ThanksBus Service NO.

8km to City Center.

Less than 100grn.

[It Travel]

There are two airports in Kiev.

KBP: Borispol. This is the main airport.

IEV: Zhulhany.

Could someone please tell me.

How far is IEV from the city center? How much is it for taxi? Is there a bus service to the city center? Where to catch it?

How far is IEV to KBP? How much is it for taxi? Is there a bus service?

ThanksWhen you arrive at KBP there is full (50/60) of strange taxi guys, but there are also few taxi booths where you can easily buy a ride for a fixed rate. Best to reserve in advance. Approx 30 km from Independence square. Might take an hour in traffic.

Here one of the many links:

http://www.porttaxi.com/index_e.html From 100 gr, depends on the side of the city you need to go.

The KBP site useful infos.

http://kbp.com.ua/english/general/index.html

If you want a bus thre is the 322 bus going to Kiev Station (where you get Metro) running random (but frequently), but with small or bigger buses, you will get a ticket for approx 2/3 euros (depends on change) tickets on board from the driver. Often running in the day (every 20 min) less in the night 30 min or an hour, usually there is a timetable on the 322 (the bus number) sign in front of terminal B where the bus stops. The bus are branded POLIT in cyrillic obviously. No special colour, brand or type. You need grivnas to pay (get some at an ATM in the APT, the change is crazy)

IEV has no proper site, (on construction but. http://www.airport.kiev.ua/en/toget/) but as far as I remember they have still public bus goiung to a metro station close to Rus Hotel, just 5/6 km. The bus is not a special airport bus, just a normal city bus. Trolley bus n° 9 runs you to main station, Trolley bus 22 runs you to Shulyavskaya metro. Normal city bus fare. You need grivnas...

In any case both your hotel both your land lord can arrange a private transfer with a name plate. Sarching in the caotic arrive lounge. Avoid gipsy taxies from / to APT. Always a good idea.

Just two cents from a Kiev well knower.

IT

[Reiner Otto]

Trolley bus and° 9 runs you to main station,

ITNot correct. No. 9 is NOT a trolley bus, but a usual small city bus. When leaving the exit of the airport IEV, crossing the small parking area, to the left there is a bus stop for trolley buses. And no. 9 also stops there. Again: Standard bus. I was a little bit confused myself recognizing this.

[Stevie69]

I like the part about "reasonably good looking BUT of middle eastern descent".

FKKs and Kiev are totally different experiences. It depends on what you want.


Guys,

I'm 38 and single and reasonably good looking (but of middle eastern descent). I live in US and ocassionally travelled to Frankfurt on business. After I read these forums a couple of years ago I started visiting FKKs and now have made several trips over past few years. I have a one week vacation coming up and reading all these forums makes me want to start planning trip. What do you think, would it be better to go hang out in Kiev for one week or should I go to FKK again? I would love to have an attractive blonde girl GFE by my side for a whole night (Girl Friend Experience). Do you think I'll be dissapointed if I made Kiev a destination vs FKKs or what? Any pros and cons?

Thanks

[It Travel]

Not correct. No. 9 is NOT a trolley bus, but a usual small city bus. When leaving the exit of the airport IEV, crossing the small parking area, to the left there is a bus stop for trolley buses. And no. 9 also stops there. Again: Standard bus. I was a little bit confused myself recognizing this.Mm it's a normal bus. And°9.

IT

[Sorbonne]

This is very easy.

I'm from Germany, when you make holiday in Germany go to FKK Club, All your Money been in Germany)

You have Fun and you are happy and ME too, not must pay so much Tax to Goverment)

I can fly at my next Holiday to KIEV, I like it.

Beautiful Girl, I not must pay more than 200Dollar for a beautiful Girl for one Night.

When I sponsoring a girl for 4 night and 3 days I must pay 5555grn)

Ore for one week 8000grivna.

This is a great Girlfriend experience, I love it.

The best is, if you need help for a girl with longtime sponsoring (more than 3 nights) I can help you.

Uhhh, this sounds like an interesting proposition.

Is it so easy to find a girl to sponsor for a few days? If so, yeah, please help me! I'd like to sponsor a girl for 3 nights for 5555 grn to get GFE for the duration.

Thanks!

[Hercules78]

To be honest I'm a little bored of the FKK scene. I want to have women for longer duration.

[Lollo Frollo]

To be honest I'm a little bored of the FKK scene. I want to have women for longer duration.EASY just get married!

[Xwhocaresx]

Is anybody interested in this girl? What would you like to do with her? (It is her surname in picture titles.)Sure, interested. Send PM.

[Truman Venice]

Asking for information.

I'll get Kiev, I want to go to Rakuena massage, Kiev. If somebody tried it, is the best massage salon around the city? Any special girl there?

Thanks

[Sponsor74]

Asking for information.

I'll get Kiev, I want to go to Rakuena massage, Kiev. If somebody tried it, is the best massage salon around the city? Any special girl there?

ThanksI was there last year. They have 2 locals now I guess have only 1 and located in center. Good massage but I did not have a chance for sex and was only masage with happy end. Girls are nice but no chance to pick up to my room

[Truman Venice]

Thanks, Sponsor74, howewer I don't expect sex, there. Just look for a massage with happy end. Did the girl let you touch her, yes? This matters, to me. I didn't hear about 2 locals.

Thanks, of course.


I was there last year. They have 2 locals now I guess have only 1 and located in center. Good massage but I did not have a chance for sex and was only masage with happy end. Girls are nice but no chance to pick up to my room

[Sponsor74]

Thanks, Sponsor74, howewer I don't expect sex, there. Just look for a massage with happy end. Did the girl let you touch her, yes? This matters, to me. I didn't hear about 2 locals.

Thanks, of course.Yes touch is possible but not too much or in Pussy but the girls at that time were nice

[LilJoey]

guys,

i'm 38 and single and reasonably good looking (but of middle eastern descent). i live in us and ocassionally travelled to frankfurt on business. after i read these forums a couple of years ago i started visiting fkks and now have made several trips over past few years. i have a one week vacation coming up and reading all these forums makes me want to start planning trip. what do you think, would it be better to go hang out in kiev for one week or should i go to fkk again? i would love to have an attractive blonde girl gfe by my side for a whole night (girl friend experience). do you think i'll be dissapointed if i made kiev a destination vs fkks or what? any pros and cons?

thanks.in addition to the advice given by harry hirsch, i would advise you to do as i did and choose kiev for now, in light of the e coli danger which is still killing people in germany, where officials still have not identified the source or sources, and there is still the possibility of transmission of the deadly bacteria from infected person to other persons even if they don't eat any vegetables. see my two posts in the fkk thread on this.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1089-general-info&p=1171445#post1171445

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1089-general-info&p=1172206#post1172206

so i arrived in kiev yesterday evening and went straight away to meet up with my favorita at rio club. she had a big day planned with her mother for saturday, so she couldn't do an all-nighter and we decided on a 3 hour session. back at my apartment, while she was showering, i asked if i could come in too, and of course she said yes, like the good girl that she is. so i was soaping and massaging her shoulders and she liked it because she started to shove her sexy ass back onto my dick like the good sexy stripper that she is. well i don't need to tell you what happened next, do i? would it surprise you that i started getting a mighty hard on because of all the ass action my dick was getting in the shower? so the inevitable happened and i took her there and then standing behind her in the shower in a small jacuzzi bathtub, my mind pushing away the thought of the danger if one of us lost our footing and slipped, because all i could hear were her shrieks of "ohhh don't stop, ohh, don't stop" as i bent her further over and was fucking the shit out of her, and i am an obedient boy lol. then we took the action back to the bedroom, and i gave her a luxurious daty session getting her to come two times in succession (she's a multi-orgasmic girl, lucky me) , and then she started giving me an awesome blow job and soon enough hopped on over me for some 69 when her pussy got lonely and she had apparently turned herself on again with my dick sliding down her throat. so i licked her with my very effective special style and it was not long before i began to hear her now familiar shrieks as she approached one of her explosive orgasms, but i locked her in place with my two arms around and over her buttocks, so no matter what she did she was not able to squirm away, but was going to take it until the end (i only hoped that in her passion she would remember not to bite on my dick too hard, which was down her throat as this was happening). after she came, i released her and threw her back on the bed. she was still laying on her back quaking from her 69 orgasm, as i bent her legs back, one leg draped over each of my arms, and entered her missionary style. what can i say, this girl is soooo pretty to look at while you fuck her, it is a special thing. unfortunately, i think i feel things for her, so i must keep her name to myself for the time being. but she left my apartment at 1:30am.

i realized soon after that the night is still young, relatively, so i went out, first hitting the buddha bar at 2am, literally empty, no one there, maybe it was the pouring rain? i don't know, but it was empty on friday night at 2am. i was hit on by one gir, not bad looking, but not great, who asked for $500, and i told her i would not consider anything higher than $200 for two hours, so she said 400, which i declined, and ultimately she said "300 and i do not look at my watch" to which i said i look very carefully at my watch and not a minute less than 2 hours, and before she had the chance to agree, i said,"but you know, on second thought, i'm not in the mood, as i just had sex an hour ago, so maybe tomorrow night". there were two other hot girls there, both blonds who had perfect asses, as was evident in the way they fit in their jeans, but the faces were just ok, not model pretty. i'm pretty sure they were working girls, but they left with other guys. not to end the night on a low ket, ast 2:30am i decided to finally hit d'lux, and paid the 200 grivna entrance fee. i saw mostly girls together with older men, and girls with guys on dates, and some pairs of girlfriends walkikng around the disco main level and upper level bar area. i looked at some girl pairs who i thought might be working and smiled at them, but didn't get back that look that tells me they are "working". i tried a few conversations with various girls i was standing near at the dance floor, but it was clear they weren't working either, just regular girls out for fun. so i don't know qhat the working girl presence was like at d'lux because i didn't encounter one wg there while at the club from 2:30 to 4am, and again sorely missed the ease of the action at the rp. as for regular girls who were eye-candy, of course, the club was filled, but most were with guys already. realizing my full level of exhaustion, i decided to end my first nite back in kiev, and cabbed it back to my apartment. by the way, the taxis in front of d'lux are just like the piranha in front of the rp or strip bars, and the first one asked for 200 grivna for the 5 minute ride to which i said no thanks, and then one of his buddies approached asking if i would go for 75 grivna, to which i caved in and said yes. he already knew my address, so it was apparent that he was either listening to the first exchange or had been told. so it seems they are all working together, as he handed me off to a third guy who was my driver.

by the way, at rio, i had hoped also to see rosa, the beautiful princessa about whom i wrote in my post about my duo during my april trip, but alas, rosa has found true love and has left rio. jet setr if you were planning to nail the beautiful rosa (who you wrote you thought was a 10+) on your next trip to kiev, i am sad to tell you it won't any longer be possible and too bad for those others who never yet had the chance to meet rosa as she is a wonderful lay.

there, i've just finished this fairly graphic post, which i hope will liven up this thread which has been dismal for a while, with no entertainment value, focussing on happy endings and which shoes to wear to seduce ukrainian devushkas. give me a break and post your good stuff, guys. what happened after you walked around in your prada shoes?

lj

[Sorbonne]

I do need to know more about shoes.

I will be in Kiev from July 11th for almost a month on vacation. I might go out of town for a week at one point, though.

Since Kiev was so hot in June and July last year and I got such a bad athlete's food problem that I'm preparing for it this time, and as of now, I decided not to wear shoes in Kiev! That's right, guys, no shoes! Back here in the USA I bought a pair of Ecco sandals for $130 and am wondering if this is going to be OK with Ukrainian girls and door men. It's probably the best sandals available and is a nice-looking pair. I do believe I can walk into nice restaurants with these in summer in Kiev. Am I making a huge mistake?

Maybe I should take a pair of my Mephisto, but I don't want to carry another pair of shoes. And I'm not sure if Ukrainians even recognize Mephisto or Ecco, the two top walking shoes makers in the world. I'm not an Italian but am into shoemakers. .

If it's a problem, I guess I could buy a pair of shoes in Kiev.

I don't necessarily expect any answer to this ridiculous post.

[Hercules78]

two questions.

1. how much will an all nighter cost with a rio girl?

2. did you use condoms for bj or was it bbbj? also seems you nailed her in the shower. was it bb or covered?

so i arrived in kiev yesterday evening and went straight away to meet up with my favorita at rio club. she had a big day planned with her mother for saturday, so she couldn't do an all-nighter and we decided on a 3 hour session. back at my apartment, while she was showering, i asked if i could come in too, and of course she said yes, like the good girl that she is. so i was soaping and massaging her shoulders and she liked it because she started to shove her sexy ass back onto my dick like the good sexy stripper that she is. well i don't need to tell you what happened next, do i? would it surprise you that i started getting a mighty hard on because of all the ass action my dick was getting in the shower? so the inevitable happened and i took her there and then standing behind her in the shower in a small jacuzzi bathtub, my mind pushing away the thought of the danger if one of us lost our footing and slipped, because all i could hear were her shrieks of "ohhh don't stop, ohh, don't stop" as i bent her further over and was fucking the shit out of her, and i am an obedient boy lol. then we took the action back to the bedroom, and i gave her a luxurious daty session getting her to come two times in succession (she's a multi-orgasmic girl, lucky me) , and then she started giving me an awesome blow job and soon enough hopped on over me for some 69 when her pussy got lonely and she had apparently turned herself on again with my dick sliding down her throat. so i licked her with my very effective special style and it was not long before i began to hear her now familiar shrieks as she approached one of her explosive orgasms, but i locked her in place with my two arms around and over her buttocks, so no matter what she did she was not able to squirm away, but was going to take it until the end (i only hoped that in her passion she would remember not to bite on my dick too hard, which was down her throat as this was happening). after she came, i released her and threw her back on the bed. she was still laying on her back quaking from her 69 orgasm, as i bent her legs back, one leg draped over each of my arms, and entered her missionary style. what can i say, this girl is soooo pretty to look at while you fuck her, it is a special thing. unfortunately, i think i feel things for her, so i must keep her name to myself for the time being. but she left my apartment at 1:30am.

i realized soon after that the night is still young, relatively, so i went out, first hitting the buddha bar at 2am, literally empty, no one there, maybe it was the pouring rain? i don't know, but it was empty on friday night at 2am. i was hit on by one gir, not bad looking, but not great, who asked for $500, and i told her i would not consider anything higher than $200 for two hours, so she said 400, which i declined, and ultimately she said "300 and i do not look at my watch" to which i said i look very carefully at my watch and not a minute less than 2 hours, and before she had the chance to agree, i said,"but you know, on second thought, i'm not in the mood, as i just had sex an hour ago, so maybe tomorrow night". there were two other hot girls there, both blonds who had perfect asses, as was evident in the way they fit in their jeans, but the faces were just ok, not model pretty. i'm pretty sure they were working girls, but they left with other guys. not to end the night on a low ket, ast 2:30am i decided to finally hit d'lux, and paid the 200 grivna entrance fee. i saw mostly girls together with older men, and girls with guys on dates, and some pairs of girlfriends walkikng around the disco main level and upper level bar area. i looked at some girl pairs who i thought might be working and smiled at them, but didn't get back that look that tells me they are "working". i tried a few conversations with various girls i was standing near at the dance floor, but it was clear they weren't working either, just regular girls out for fun. so i don't know qhat the working girl presence was like at d'lux because i didn't encounter one wg there while at the club from 2:30 to 4am, and again sorely missed the ease of the action at the rp. as for regular girls who were eye-candy, of course, the club was filled, but most were with guys already. realizing my full level of exhaustion, i decided to end my first nite back in kiev, and cabbed it back to my apartment. by the way, the taxis in front of d'lux are just like the piranha in front of the rp or strip bars, and the first one asked for 200 grivna for the 5 minute ride to which i said no thanks, and then one of his buddies approached asking if i would go for 75 grivna, to which i caved in and said yes. he already knew my address, so it was apparent that he was either listening to the first exchange or had been told. so it seems they are all working together, as he handed me off to a third guy who was my driver.

by the way, at rio, i had hoped also to see rosa, the beautiful princessa about whom i wrote in my post about my duo during my april trip, but alas, rosa has found true love and has left rio. jet setr if you were planning to nail the beautiful rosa (who you wrote you thought was a 10+) on your next trip to kiev, i am sad to tell you it won't any longer be possible and too bad for those others who never yet had the chance to meet rosa as she is a wonderful lay.

there, i've just finished this fairly graphic post, which i hope will liven up this thread which has been dismal for a while, with no entertainment value, focussing on happy endings and which shoes to wear to seduce ukrainian devushkas. give me a break and post your good stuff, guys. what happened after you walked around in your prada shoes?

lj[/quote]

[LilJoey]

I was so fatigued from last night's festivities and not sleeping since Wednesday night that I slept away the whole day Saturday in bed getting up to shower and eat in the late evening. In between sleeping I had made contact with vodkaescort. Com who had sent me Julia and Inna (about whom I have previously reported and whom I had been satisfied with) , to send me a list of their girls available in Kiev "short term", which by them means three hours, for no more than $300/3hours, like the rate at Rio. I told them that since I can get hotter girls for that $300/3hr rate out of the strip club, their girls that have higher prices than that, are simply not competitive in the Kiev market, and I will pass even on one of their hotties just on the price issue, like Zlata, because she has a 400 Euro / 3hrs price tag, or Vera who is only available for an overnight at 950 Euros. {It is true that I had booked Inna with their sister agency (caribescort. Com) for an overnight in Santo Domingo, but that was a special case since she had to travel many hours to get to me, all the way from Punta Cana on the other side of the Dominican Republic, so a short term session simply didn't make sense, and I knew she was good, having been with her previously in Kiev. } So they emailed to me a list of their girls available in Kiev for 3 hour sessions at my price, and emailed pics as well. I selected a few to ask for more pics, and they gave me a special link to see the rest of the website pics, since the website is blocked in Ukraine. I selected a girl named Alina who is not on the website because of her personal privacy concerns. The appointment with Alina is set up for 4pm on Sunday. I hope she is as good as Julia and Inna from this agency have been. I will report on the outcome.

By the time I was ready to start my Saturday evening of clubbing in Kiev it was nearing midnight, so based on the unimpressive WG showing at Buddha Bar and D'Lux last night Saturday night, I made a beeline for Rio, opting for a seat in the VIP lounge upstairs at first. However, there was a bunch of drunk guys sitting in my favorite couch in the VIP that is right up next to the small dancing platform where usually two girls dance after they both finish on the two separate stages with dancing poles. Because of the drunk guys, the girls didn't want to dance there, and there was therefore only two girls dancing at a time on the two pole stages. And the line up was thin. I didn't see any of my favorites. But I did see some new hotties, like Lita a tall brunette with an awesome body, as well as Evgenia who doesn't speak English but is a very healthy specimen of Ukrainian wholesome beauty, as well as Ivana another sexy brunette with a well muscled beautiful dancer's ass and pretty face who spoke English and German. But these last two girls were tied up with the Asian guys at the table nearby me, and the rest of the line up that came out to dance on the two poles were unimpressive. I had given it an hour in the VIP so I decided to go to the next room (the upstairs inner room) to see the line up there.

But after a while in the upstairs inner room I was unimpressed with that line up too, so I asked if Marta the black haired beauty I had seen dancing last nite downstairs could be brought up to sit with me. So after a while Marta came and we spoke for a while, but she informed me she was having her period and couldn't go out. She also declined a private dance saying that she needed to take some pills because of discomfort due to her period. I really was undecided if it was true or just a line, but it seemed she did like me, so as an investment towards a better date with her in the future, I gave her a 100 grivna tip (only about $13, but still a respectable tip in Ukraine) for the time she spent with me, which is what she would have earned out of the private dance probably, and told her I hoped she would feel better and sent her on her way. Finally a very cute blond appeared on stage, Sophie, and I went right over to her, only to find out she's a dancer only and doesn't go home with customers. After her I spotted the young heart throb, Tamara, with the long jet black hair, very pretty face, and sexy body that I had met on a previous trip, but when she came over to sit with me she told me she has a regular client she is busy with in the downstairs club room, so she couldn't go with me tonight. She had given me the hottest private dance last time, so I had been prepared to leave the club with her right then, but she couldn't. Then I spotted a girl with a super hot body in a cat suit that was mesh and see thru with a mane of long blond hair, and a face that looked like the actress from the old movies, Marlene Dietrich, you know, the German actress who made it to Hollywood and became a star in the 1930s and 40s. This blond's name was Bella, and she is definitely on my list, as Pasha later confirmed she is a good girl. There were some other hotties I saw upstairs too but I wanted to see what was going on downstairs before making my decision, as no one had yet rung my bells, so to speak.

So I went downstairs, to see that line up at about 3:15am. Downstairs I saw Gella, a very cute blond with a perfect tush and pretty eyes. But after speaking with her, she still was saying that she doesn't like receiving oral sex (DATY) and that only her boyfriend can kiss her pussy. I told her that for me it is a deal breaker, and that if she wants to come with me, even together with my other favorita like she had suggested last night, that she has to be open about this, because otherwise it will handicap the session. She is very sweet and pretty, and I liked her otherwise. She had told me she was a teacher for young children, I think she said 8 year olds, what is that, first or second graders, and I could see that she is just a nice sweet girl, with the cutest ass. But dammit, I want to kiss her between those gorgeous legs! I know I'm a nut to be fixated on having good oral sex, and declining to take home this beautiful girl who looks great, is offering to fuck me, but just holds back one cherry of her receiving oral sex, after all isn't a BJ and fucking her enough? Well, first I figure that most normal girls who like sex also like receiving oral sex, and that any girl who is uptight about that, is probably going to be uptight about a host of other things related to sex and the session will just deteriorate. This was my primary reason for hoilding back on the session with Gella. But in addition to these concerns, I find that when I give a girl an awesome session of DATY (and I really am gifted in this department) that it opens up some real GFE channels between me and the girl that wouldn't be there otherwise. So many guys can fuck a WG, and have done so, and I've seen how working girls can just shut off their emotions and get through it, while a guy does his business, and the whole thing remains impersonal to her and to him, and that would not be the GFE experience. But a good session of oral sex (DATY) delivered to a girl gently and properly, in a fashion she can really enjoy, is a pure gift to her, and sometimes they are still just unjaded enough to appreciate the effort and the affectionate sentiment (I never do it for a girl I don't genuinely feel I like) , and sometimes they reciprocate and an intimate friendship of a sorts is born right then and there between two people who were strangers just a short time previously. So I feel it opens doors between the girl and me in a far quicker manner than other ways. Plus it is a major turn on for me. Anyway, I told her to think about it, and we'll see tomorrow night, as I will probably come back to see my favorita again (she wasn't there tonight).

And then as it was 4:30am and I was just about to conclude that tonight was going to be a bust, I spotted this tall beauty, with long black hair, pretty face, and slender sexy dancer's body with perfect ass that seems to abound in this land of gorgeous women. Her name was Alexandra, and one thing led to another and I decided to take her home.

While Alexandra was dressing, I spotted another very beautiful girl whose name was Tanya, an exceptionally pretty face blond with a tight sexy body, who is now on my list, but since she has only worked at Rio for a couple of weeks, Pasha didn't know anything about her yet.

Well Alexandra has just left my apartment at 8am. What an awesome girl. Great session with all the trimmings DATY, uncovered BJ, multiple orgasms both from oral and fucking, she was screaming her head off when she came, in unmistakeable abdominal convulsions, it was awesome to watch. A fitting end to a Saturday night in Kiev.

In all, I think the line up is thinner now in July than during my February and April visits to Kiev, both at Rio, as well as WG's present at Buddha Bar and D'Lux. Perhaps because this is a vacation time, many girls go on vacation? I don't know, but that was my perception. There is still plenty of hotties here in Kiev. So don't worry.

Also, Pasha, one of the reliable managers at Rio, now has a new stage name. He is now Mark.


Two questions.

1. How much will an all nighter cost with a Rio girl?

2. Did you use condoms for BJ or was it BBBJ? Also seems you nailed her in the shower. Was it BB or covered?Hercules78, your questions have been dealt with in past posts. So I encourage you to click on my profile and click on the prior posts link and you will be able to read what I have written since my initial reports were filed starting with my February 2011 trip. But before your trip, you should also read the entire thread going back as many months as you can to see the perspectives of others, which are varied, and you can pick up some good tips. Nevertheless, I will answer your questions again here insofar as they are relevant to you going to Rio and finding what you want.

The 3 hour session at Rio is $300, and for the all nighter usually $400 is requested. This does not mean you will get non stop sex for all night. But rather you will have a good unrushed session and perhaps time for some fun unrelated to sex, or more likely your girl will want to sleep, as their schedule is grueling and most of them are truly exhausted, and you may get a second shot at nailing her again when she gets up in the morning to leave, but you have to be careful with this, and make sure there is a mutual understanding about a second session in the morning before she leaves, or you may just get up to find her dressing to rush off to some crucial appointment or whatever. Also there are many girls who will not stay to morning and will say they must return to Rio club by the 5am closing time, so all night really means until 5am with such girls. Therefore you must speak about what time she will stay until specifically, as well as that there will be time for a second shot before she leaves. Some guys have reported girls staying into the next day, but I caution you that this is not the norm, and is not to be expected in most cases. If it is true, then these guys were lucky and hit it off with the girls they chose exceptionally well. So you must go into this with your eyes wide open. If you luck out and have a girl really like you and want to stay with you into the morning hours or later, then great for you. But if she must return at 5am, it is also good value for your $400, especially if you have her from the beginning of the evening. As with all these things YMMV, and there is no set rule or standard by which the girls must act.

As to uncovered blow jobs, it is very difficult to know in advance before taking a girl from Rio what she will do. Unless you are prepared to ask her explicitly and risk turning off a girl you might like and who in the throes of passion might just well go down on you without a condom, but in response to your clinical question she will of course say that she requires a condom for everything. Sometimes it goes better if you don't ask, I'm trying to say. So it's a judgment call as to the best course, asking everything in advance, or trying to get a sense of your chemistry with the girl from sharing a hot private dance. You will have to find what works best for you. I never asked about uncovered BJ in advance because any girl who I choose to take out of Rio is so hot and beautiful in my eyes, that I am fully prepared to be with them even if the BJ is covered. YMMV. From my favorita, I received an awesome uncovered blow job, as well as from Alexandra, the girl I met tonight for the first time at 4:30am, and had spent time talking with her and charming her at my apartment, and had gone down on her giving her an awesome first orgasm. Would she have done an uncovered BJ if I had not taken time to break the ice and speak with her for a while, and if I had not pleasured her with my oral skills the way I did? I don't know. Maybe or maybe not. My previous favorite girl, Rosa, who was awesomely pretty, never gave uncovered BJ's but she was such a good fuck that I forgave that deficiency just to be with such an awesome looking girl.

Hope this was helpful. When is your trip planned for Hercules78?

LJ

[Prosal]

Shoes. I don't necessarily expect any answer to this ridiculous post.Sandals do not match civilized world's vision of good taste. If you want to dress "down" but "cool", wear Armani, Pal Zileri, Zegna, ect sneakers. For "in" clubs, if you want to show which class you are in (keep in mind that FSU countries are very much class societies) , wear Berluti, John Lobb, Santoni, Weston, ect leather shoes. With a stylish jeans, a labeled belt and a quality Boss, Prada or Zegna shirt, it's perfect.

The fancy watch is also a weapon. It attracts a positive attention. It suggests success, and FSU women like successful men. Winner. I bought last year the new IWC Ingenieur Mission Earth, a nice, big and expensive eye-catching watch, and when I'm out and about, it definitely stands out vs the competition.

[Sorbonne]

Sandals do not match civilized world's vision of good taste. If you want to dress "down" but "cool", wear Armani, Pal Zileri, Zegna, ect sneakers. For "in" clubs, if you want to show which class you are in (keep in mind that FSU countries are very much class societies) , wear Berluti, John Lobb, Santoni, Weston, ect leather shoes. With a stylish jeans, a labeled belt and a quality Boss, Prada or Zegna shirt, it's perfect.

The fancy watch is also a weapon. It attracts a positive attention. It suggests success, and FSU women like successful men. Winner. I bought last year the new IWC Ingenieur Mission Earth, a nice, big and expensive eye-catching watch, and when I'm out and about, it definitely stands out vs the competition.Thanks for your advice.

I'm not sure what to do. My philosophy is quality and comfort over style. This alone suggests I'm out in the FSU countires.

But I'm not planning to go clubbing in Kiev. Mainly I'm just going out with regular girls from Mamba, with whom I've made contacts.

In fact I just bought a Columbia shirt and a pair of Ex-Officio pants. It sounds like I'm going for camping in Ukraine. (In fact one of the girls I'm supposed to meet with just came back from a summer camp.)

But I'll take your advice seriously. Maybe I'll buy a Boss shirt.

[LilJoey]

Meeting with Alina of vodkaescort at 4pm went off spectacularly. The girl was as pretty as her pictures, not a voluptuous type, but rather a slender girl with very pretty eyes and face. She is not on the website due to her privacy concerns, but the agency had emailed me her pics. Very intelligent girl with superb English, already has a Bachelor's degree from the university in Kiev, plans to go to graduate school in another country to broaden herself. She's not just a Ukrainian farm girl who just came to the big city Kiev, but a sophisticated conversationalist, very well travelled all over Europe, as she has been able to overcome the difficulty in getting a visa to travel from Ukraine. I was impressed with her, and when we got down to the fun part of our meeting. Wow! The sex was great, and, of note, this girl deserves a nomination to my deep throat BJ queen of all time list. Simply superb and exquisite. She left at 7pm, a well spent three hours at the same $300 rate as Rio.

After three very good experiences with girls from vodkaescort (Julia, Inna and now Alina) I feel I have enough basis to believe that the chances are weighted in favor of having a good experience with this agency. I'm sure you recognize that this is no guarantee, since every girl is different and there may be a bad apple in the mix of girls at this agency whom I haven't yet had the misfortune to meet, but it seems the agency tries to exercise quality control and choose good girls. Therefore, vodkaescort, which uses true pics, photoshopped, but not overly so, is a viable option, certainly for daytime play.

Other daytime options are chasing after mamba and top-modals girls, or other websites with fake pictures, where the asking prices are often $100 or less, to try and find a sexy girl at a cheaper rate. Or one can roam the streets or shopping malls during the daytime hours trying to pick up girls who appeal, for a cheaper $100 or less rate.

Although I don't care for the looks of many of the girls on the vodkaescort website, there are some girls there who I do like very much. Mostly the agency is looking for long term bookings, such as overnights or multiple days bookings. They claim that is the core of their client base. However, many of their girls do not reside in Kiev and their travel time to Kiev is the key factor preventing such girls from being able to offer short term meetings in Kiev for 3 or 6 hours. But they do have some girls who can provide a 3 hour date in Kiev, and some of those are appealing girls, so there is an option. By way of comparison to the only other escort agency website that uses true pics, namely, Gia-escort. Com, I never could find any models on their website that I liked enough to justify their higher rates for the one hour appointment of $180 / hour. The rates of these two agencies are similar, when speaking of a three hour booking, to the Rio rates of $300/3hrs. Or thereabouts.

However, for nightime play, my interest would shift back to Rio strip club which has many more options of spectacular looking girls available in Kiev at the $300/3hrs rate. Or if strip clubs are not your thing, I would shift focus to going to the nightclubs and trying to figure out who is a WG, and then negotiating through the BS of their high-ball first quote of $400 or $500 for an hour or two, down to something more reasonable, and then trying to figure out, without the benefit of a private dance experience with them, whether they are likely to provide a GFE experience or not. Or if you are looking for freebies, then at the nightclubs, use your usual charms as in your home city to see if you can't get a girl's interest enough to start up a relationship, casual though it may be.

After my experience with Alina from 4. 7pm I was a little tired out, but this was my last night in Kiev, so suck it up man, you'll rest later. I made it to Rio at about 10:30pm. I saw the incredibly beautiful and sexy blond, Tanya, there again who I had noticed last nite, who just started working two weeks ago. I asked her to come and sit with me. The conversation went poorly, as she was nervous and distracted, very bad vibe, and I was disappointed as she is so truly pretty. She told be she saw me last night sitting with her friend Marta. Marta is an incredibly beautiful black haired cover girl type, who had given me the answer last night that she had her period and couldn't go out. Tanya said she was a dancer only and didn't go out, so she's off the list. For my money these two friends can have each other, as they seem to be a too difficult nut to crack. Then I saw Alexandra, the fantastic girl I had taken home from Rio at the end of a long Saturday night who stayed with me from 5. 8am. Tall, slender, uber-sexy black-haired beauty, but I didn't want a repeat again so soon.

Then I saw the sexy blond school teacher, Gella, with the perfect ass, who smiled at me whenever she looked my way. She had declined to come with me alone, the first time I saw her, and only wanted to come with my favorita as a duo. Maybe she was nervous. Anyway, my favorita was there last night and I invited her to sit down and we discussed the cute blond Gella. She went to talk to her, to make sure she was up for everything that would be expected. Having another girl do the interview with Gella about the services was great. Bottom line is that soon after, I left the club with two girls on my arm, my favorita and this really cute blond, Gella. The session was unbelievable and so much fun. My favorita likes girls too and while there was no pussy kissing by either girl, there was a lot of breast kissing and touching between the girls, while I was doing my own thing. It was an awesome duo session. There's nothing like seeing the affect on the second girl of the first girl's moans and eventually shrieks of passion and ecstasy as she receives a most effective DATY. It builds an excitement and anticipation in the second girl of how good it will be when it is her turn, soon enough. Likewise, the look on my favorita's face as she lay next to us on the bed and we looked into each other's eyes, knowingly smiling, as I missionary fucked the beautiful blonde school teacher, Gella, into a screaming orgasm, and then continued to pound her towards a second one, was priceless. The session proceeded from good to better, and included lots of licking and kissing and fucking in all manner of positions. Lots of cuddling and conversation too. Yet the blow job had been covered. Why do I not mind? Because for one thing, at the same time, I had Gella up above me sitting on my face while I was licking her pussy and she was moaning and getting worked up toward her second orgasm, which was far more exciting and distracted me. And also because otherwise, except for that, real GFE was going on. I was happy I had been able to get past the roadblocks that Gella had had up initially, as now she had been thoroughly initiated and was into it. So, I was somewhat consoled about the loss of Rosa, the beautiful princess who had graced my last duo and made it the best ever, and perhaps Gella will take her place, although she is irreplaceable. But who knows, the search shall go on next time I'm in Kiev. There are others on my list, including hotties like Tamara, Gloria, Yanna etc. And they keep getting new girls. And Mandarin, their sister club may open "soon".

Now I'm back in Brussels, planning to get a little rest, and then perhaps sample some of this city's best.

LJ

[Climaxnow]

Something I've been wondering about. Assuming all things equal in a man (age, looks, economics, social) , which nationality do Eastern European girls most admire?

Probably my imagination, but on my last trip, I noticed that presenting myself as an Italian amplified a girls interest towards me as opposed to being an American.

Any thoughts?

[Prosal]

Probably my imagination, but on my last trip, I noticed that presenting myself as an Italian amplified a girls interest towards me as opposed to being an American.

Any thoughts?I hate clichees, but "Italiano" is a running joke among girls in EE. Italians are well-known for their clumsy game and their cultural unawareness. All talk no action, and furthermore always in groups, unable to stand solo (unlike Americans, to their tribute). That said, it's a generalization. I already met Italians with an excellent game, a good cultural knowledge, and able to pick-up solo. Nonetheless one thing is certain, it's that EE devushki usually prefer the olive-skinned "latino" type of guy to the livid white-pale typical westerner.

You could try to present yourself as French. It's often synonym of rafinement, romantism, intelligence and cultural enlightening. (wink)

[LilJoey]

Something important I forgot to add to my Day 3 report regarding daytime options. In the past, I had mentioned going to girl apartments as an option for cheap rates for sex with a good looking Ukrainian girl that you can check out how she looks first, and this might be a preferable alternative to dealing with the time waste in using the fake picture websites.

Well here is a cautionary note. I had been talking to the taxi driver who took me home from D'Lux about whether he knows where the apartments with prostitutes are located. He said that the police had closed a lot of them, and that if a taxi driver takes a guy to the apartment, the police lock up both of them. So he said better to go to D'Lux which is full of prostitutes.

Has anyone heard of some sort of crack down by Kiev police on girl apartments?

Because of the uncertainty, I would exercise caution with regard to going to girl apartments, until more is known about what is going on.

LJ

[Prosal]

Enough with shoes!BTW, despite their bad reputation, girls in FSU do give credit to Italians because they usually dress with style and refinement (contrarily to American who often dress like slobs) , which match their own tastes to dress to the tens. Shoes are important if you want to tick all the boxes in order to be accepted by those 9+ glam girls who look for accordingly well appointed men of same cultural and lifestyle level. If you can't perceive the pervasiveness of the status system and the importance of being dressed with refinement and style in FSU countries, then you can't really understand people who live there.

[DoctorOral]

I hate clichees, but "Italiano" is a running joke among girls in EE. Italians are well-known for their clumsy game and their cultural unawareness. All talk no action, and furthermore always in groups, unable to stand solo (unlike Americans, to their tribute). That said, it's a generalization. I already met Italians with an excellent game, a good cultural knowledge, and able to pick-up solo. Nonetheless one thing is certain, it's that EE devushki usually prefer the olive-skinned "latino" type of guy to the livid white-pale typical westerner.

You could try to present yourself as French. It's often synonym of rafinement, romantism, intelligence and cultural enlightening. (wink) It must be the Turks. (wink!)

[Irish Lad]

It must be the Turks. (wink!)The reality is all nations can be either popular or unpopular here.

Some girls have 'No Turks" on their Mamba profiles whereas others go crazy for them.

Best to find your market and sell in to it. No point in wasting time on a girl who prefers Americans if you're Italian.

[Prosal]

.Veni vidi vici+1. An Ukrainian girl will favor any day a well-groomed and good-looking Turk over a poorly dressed and average looking Yankee.

No need to bash nationalities WallyWally. Everything is in the game, the looks, the style and the cultural awareness.

[Curious12]

I just came back from Kiev. Overall, it wasn't the best trip, I even regret I went there. It was raining non-stop for so many days, on Friday and Saturday night it was nearly impossible to get a taxi. Everyone was saying "no free cars". There was even an article in local newspaper about it. Of course there was plenty of taxis on the street but I wasn't going to pay those ridiculous fees (like from Buddha Bar to Arena 150 grivnas, I can walk, thank you). I visited Rio, Buddha Bar, and D'Lux and also talked to a few girls in shopping malls. I went to Rio again, it was a little better than the first time. I was able to get a table pretty quickly, Mark was very helpful. Had dances from Albina (brown hair, about 20-22, she said she's a student and has been working at Rio for three months) and Selena (dark hair, young girl about 19-20 years old) , she just started there and was rather scared. She said takeout was available but I decided not to go ahead. Buddha Bar, the only good thing about that place was no cover charge. It was 2 minutes walking distance from my building, so I went there on Thursday, Friday and Saturday and it was empty all three days. I asked for a table. They said there's a minimum deposit of 1000 grivnas but after I refused, the waitress came in 2 minutes and said I can go ahead and choose any available table. D'Lux was full of people, many girls, made an eye contact with a few of them, approached one girl, she said "I'm leaving soon", another one said "I'm just here to dance". It would have been another frustrating night if I wouldn't have met my old friend from River Palace. I was surprised she remembered me, last time we met in 2006. The girl is now 33 years old, she's still pretty, she was there with a few friends. We had a few drinks and talked for about an hour. She said most of the River Palace girls are now working in Moscow, either at Night Flight club or through the agencies. She also said that for the summer many of them went to Yalta. The next day I went to Ukraine Shopping Mall (Pobedy 3, next to Lybid Hotel) , located about 10 minutes driving from Khreshatik. I found a few pretty girls there, got some numbers. One of the girls from jewellery store on the first floor agreed to meet with me even though it was pouring like crazy. She's about 25-26 years old, long blonde hair. We went to the cinema (Odessa Kino) located at the same mall on the 4th floor and then spent some time at SushiYa. Next day it was a movie night again and then she agreed to go to my place. The sex was not the best but I have say I didn't expect much anyway. LFK, no DATY, CBJ, multiple positions. She wanted to meet next day but I didn't call here. The total cost was about 400 grivnas (taxi, movie tickets, popcorn, restaurant). I'm not sure if I will go to Kiev again. Without RP and with this type of weather it's hard to find someone. I mean who will be outside when it's constantly raining. Maybe it's time to explore some other options.

[LilJoey]

I just came back from Kiev. Overall, it wasn't the best trip, I even regret I went there. It was raining non-stop for so many days, on Friday and Saturday night it was nearly impossible to get a taxi. Everyone was saying "no free cars". There was even an article in local newspaper about it. Of course there was plenty of taxis on the street but I wasn't going to pay those ridiculous fees (like from Buddha Bar to Arena 150 grivnas, I can walk, thank you). I visited Rio, Buddha Bar, and D'Lux and also talked to a few girls in shopping malls. I went to Rio again, it was a little better than the first time. I was able to get a table pretty quickly, Mark was very helpful. Had dances from Albina (brown hair, about 20-22, she said she's a student and has been working at Rio for three months) and Selena (dark hair, young girl about 19-20 years old) , she just started there and was rather scared. She said takeout was available but I decided not to go ahead. Buddha Bar, the only good thing about that place was no cover charge. It was 2 minutes walking distance from my building, so I went there on Thursday, Friday and Saturday and it was empty all three days. I asked for a table. They said there's a minimum deposit of 1000 grivnas but after I refused, the waitress came in 2 minutes and said I can go ahead and choose any available table. D'Lux was full of people, many girls, made an eye contact with a few of them, approached one girl, she said "I'm leaving soon", another one said "I'm just here to dance". It would have been another frustrating night if I wouldn't have met my old friend from River Palace. I was surprised she remembered me, last time we met in 2006. The girl is now 33 years old, she's still pretty, she was there with a few friends. We had a few drinks and talked for about an hour. She said most of the River Palace girls are now working in Moscow, either at Night Flight club or through the agencies. She also said that for the summer many of them went to Yalta. The next day I went to Ukraine Shopping Mall (Pobedy 3, next to Lybid Hotel) , located about 10 minutes driving from Khreshatik. I found a few pretty girls there, got some numbers. One of the girls from jewellery store on the first floor agreed to meet with me even though it was pouring like crazy. She's about 25-26 years old, long blonde hair. We went to the cinema (Odessa Kino) located at the same mall on the 4th floor and then spent some time at SushiYa. Next day it was a movie night again and then she agreed to go to my place. The sex was not the best but I have say I didn't expect much anyway. LFK, no DATY, CBJ, multiple positions. She wanted to meet next day but I didn't call here. The total cost was about 400 grivnas (taxi, movie tickets, popcorn, restaurant). I'm not sure if I will go to Kiev again. Without RP and with this type of weather it's hard to find someone. I mean who will be outside when it's constantly raining. Maybe it's time to explore some other options.Dear Curious12.

I read with empathy about your disappointing experiences this past weekend at Buddha Bar and D'Lux, as they were similar to my own. I too was in Kiev this past weekend, and reported similar observations. I'm not sure if it was the rain, or the season (July many people are away on vacation in Ukraine so maybe the WG's also take off). Or maybe what your old RP friend said about all the WG's who used to be at RP now working in Moscow, is a factor which is probably true to some extent, but there were plenty of girls still in the Kiev clubs a few months back when I was there in February or April, so it's probably more related to a seasonal factor.

Nevertheless, you would probably have had a much better time if you had stuck to your guns at Rio, and persisted until you found what you liked. I took out two new girls from Rio that I had never met before and had a great time with both of them, and that's in addition to the two dates and great fun had with another Rio girl whom I had taken out many times before. So, while I also felt that the line up had less top level girls willing to go out as in the past, nevertheless, there were some truly great girls there and much fun to be had with a little persistence.

I also note that you didn't write about any attempts to find good girls on mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com, two of the websites that guys have repeatedly reported having good results from, albeit after having to send back girls who weren't appealing enough, making the process of finding a good girl time consuming.

Therefore, failing to be more persistent at Rio, and failing to pursue any options from mamba and top-modals, were the two reasons that contributed to your lack of great sex you reported over this past weekend.

So, I would encourage you not give up on Kiev just yet, as the beauties available for p4p abound in that city. You just didn't access them in the way that would have made you a happy camper.

I, and others, have consistently reported on this thread that, for a monger coming to Kiev for a short weekend, to place all his efforts into chasing possible freebies on the streets and shopping malls in Kiev, on the assumption that he will succeed in having great sex with very beautiful women, is to bank everything on an unreasonable expectation. Is it possible to be successful and get a date and have sex with a pretty girl? Yes, of course it's possible. Is it probable? Well, the better your looks, your game, and apparently from the discussion in the last few posts, the better your clothing, shoes and accessories, then the better your chances with the Kiev top level girls. But is it a guaranteed result? Definitely not. Don't come to Kiev expecting better results with freebies than you can manage on your home court. That is why, although chasing freebies is the ultimate excitement and game for many players, you should not put all your eggs in that one basket. You should back up your efforts with p4p options such as are available on mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com, as well as at the strip club Rio, or other strip clubs, or other websites.

Leaving Kiev after a weekend there without having some great sex experiences is unfortunate, but is a result that could have been surmounted. If you do decide to try again, take some of the advice plentifully available here on this thread, and I'm sure your score card will look far better.

LJ

[Xavisi]

http://mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=462112849&hit=3

Caring friends with this girl, after the meeting, while you sleep, try to steal your wallet, called Kateryna Tkalenko, danger

[Hercules78]

http://mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=462112849&hit=3

Caring friends with this girl, after the meeting, while you sleep, try to steal your wallet, called Kateryna Tkalenko, dangerShe's hot though. How much does she charge?

[Curious12]

Dear Curious12.

I read with empathy about your disappointing experiences this past weekend at Buddha Bar and D'Lux, as they were similar to my own. I too was in Kiev this past weekend, and reported similar observations. I'm not sure if it was the rain, or the season (July many people are away on vacation in Ukraine so maybe the WG's also take off). Or maybe what your old RP friend said about all the WG's who used to be at RP now working in Moscow, is a factor which is probably true to some extent, but there were plenty of girls still in the Kiev clubs a few months back when I was there in February or April, so it's probably more related to a seasonal factor.

Nevertheless, you would probably have had a much better time if you had stuck to your guns at Rio, and persisted until you found what you liked. I took out two new girls from Rio that I had never met before and had a great time with both of them, and that's in addition to the two dates and great fun had with another Rio girl whom I had taken out many times before. So, while I also felt that the line up had less top level girls willing to go out as in the past, nevertheless, there were some truly great girls there and much fun to be had with a little persistence.

I also note that you didn't write about any attempts to find good girls on mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com, two of the websites that guys have repeatedly reported having good results from, albeit after having to send back girls who weren't appealing enough, making the process of finding a good girl time consuming.

Therefore, failing to be more persistent at Rio, and failing to pursue any options from mamba and top-modals, were the two reasons that contributed to your lack of great sex you reported over this past weekend.

So, I would encourage you not give up on Kiev just yet, as the beauties available for p4p abound in that city. You just didn't access them in the way that would have made you a happy camper.

I, and others, have consistently reported on this thread that, for a monger coming to Kiev for a short weekend, to place all his efforts into chasing possible freebies on the streets and shopping malls in Kiev, on the assumption that he will succeed in having great sex with very beautiful women, is to bank everything on an unreasonable expectation. Is it possible to be successful and get a date and have sex with a pretty girl? Yes, of course it's possible. Is it probable? Well, the better your looks, your game, and apparently from the discussion in the last few posts, the better your clothing, shoes and accessories, then the better your chances with the Kiev top level girls. But is it a guaranteed result? Definitely not. Don't come to Kiev expecting better results with freebies than you can manage on your home court. That is why, although chasing freebies is the ultimate excitement and game for many players, you should not put all your eggs in that one basket. You should back up your efforts with p4p options such as are available on mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com, as well as at the strip club Rio, or other strip clubs, or other websites.

Leaving Kiev after a weekend there without having some great sex experiences is unfortunate, but is a result that could have been surmounted. If you do decide to try again, take some of the advice plentifully available here on this thread, and I'm sure your score card will look far better.

LJDear Liljoey,

Thank you for your comments. Perhaps I need to change my strategy and give Rio girls one more chance. I will think about it. I prefer to meet girls in clubs and do not like to use websites because of fake pictures. I had some bad experiences in the past, different girl would show up, rude behavior etc.

Take care.

[Stevie69]

I met her last year. She had some story about her apartment being robbed and needing new phone, camera, tv, etc.


http://mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=462112849&hit=3

Caring friends with this girl, after the meeting, while you sleep, try to steal your wallet, called Kateryna Tkalenko, danger

[Xavisi]

I met her last year. She had some story about her apartment being robbed and needing new phone, camera, tv, etc.Girl hot, but very dangerous, only look money, is a prostitute and robber

[Hercules78]

Girl hot, but very dangerous, only look money, is a prostitute and robberSo the solution is to screw and send her home. Don't let her hang around to rob you. Is she a pro? How much? If not, then did you get a freebie (minus what she robbed you for )?

[Sorbonne]

Guys,

I am shaken now. This is my 6th time in Kiev but only my second night this time. I am staying at an apartment in the center.

I called a massage girl I knew to my apartment tonight. She came over at about 12:20 am.

As she phoned me in English from the locked door of the building (She was not dressed like a prostitute but was dressed like anybody else in this hot weather; besides, she is not a prostitute but a massage girl) , a police officer thought that she was a foreigner and asked her for her passport. She spoke to him in Ukrainian, telling him if he wanted to see her passport, he has to come to her apartment by the airport. Realizing that she was a Ukrainian, the officer let her go. (This is my interpretation of the event that happened.)

After 2 hours of her nice erotic massage without sex (for which I only paid her for one hour rate of USD 50) , she left out of my door, and I noticed that the same police officer was waiting outside of my apartment door (not the building door) and started to talk to her. I got scared and locked up my door. I heard them talking for maybe the next 5 minutes. I was never bothered by the officer SO FAR.

Later, about 3:30 am I sent her a text message and asked her if she was alright. She responded by saying that she can't sleep because the police officer called her prostitute and took all her money!!! I do believe she is telling me the truth!!!

I will try to talk to her again tomorrow, so I shall continue to report on this, but I am now afraid what would happen to me in the next 7 days when I am supposed to be staying in this apartment! I will most likely be asked for my passport and then what???

I can tell him I would call the American Embassy (even though I'm not an American) , but are they open late at night? I can also tell him I would call the apartment manager.

Guys, please advise, if you have advices!!!

[LilJoey]

Guys,

I am shaken now. This is my 6th time in Kiev but only my second night this time. I am staying at an apartment in the center.

I called a massage girl I knew to my apartment tonight. She came over at about 12:20 am.

As she phoned me in English from the locked door of the building (She was not dressed like a prostitute but was dressed like anybody else in this hot weather; besides, she is not a prostitute but a massage girl) , a police officer thought that she was a foreigner and asked her for her passport. She spoke to him in Ukrainian, telling him if he wanted to see her passport, he has to come to her apartment by the airport. Realizing that she was a Ukrainian, the officer let her go. (This is my interpretation of the event that happened.)

After 2 hours of her nice erotic massage without sex (for which I only paid her for one hour rate of USD 50) , she left out of my door, and I noticed that the same police officer was waiting outside of my apartment door (not the building door) and started to talk to her. I got scared and locked up my door. I heard them talking for maybe the next 5 minutes. I was never bothered by the officer SO FAR.

Later, about 3:30 am I sent her a text message and asked her if she was alright. She responded by saying that she can't sleep because the police officer called her prostitute and took all her money! I do believe she is telling me the truth!

I will try to talk to her again tomorrow, so I shall continue to report on this, but I am now afraid what would happen to me in the next 7 days when I am supposed to be staying in this apartment! I will most likely be asked for my passport and then what?

I can tell him I would call the American Embassy (even though I'm not an American) , but are they open late at night? I can also tell him I would call the apartment manager.

Guys, please advise, if you have advices!The police in Kiev are alert for the opportunity of a shake down. Just be sure to have your actual passport on you at all times when you leave the apartment. I was staying last weekend at an apartment near the Maidan and while walking to Buddha Bar at about 1am (I was the only pedestrian in sight as it was a rainy evening) I was stopped by uniformed police who asked for my passport and examined it to find the entry stamp from Ukraine immigration at the airport and then handed it back to me and wished me a good evening. I suppose if I hadn't taken it with me, they would have busted my chops until I gave them a payoff. But I had read about that ploy on this thread previously, so I took my passport with me when I left my apartment to go out, just in case. And it was lucky that I did. I suppose if you are going to bring a girl to your apartment, and you believe the police are staking out your apartment, then take a precaution and discuss and rehearse with the girl the basic elements of your story, such as that she is a friend coming to visit you, and if it's late perhaps that you are coming from a late night out at a nightclub, and make sure you know each other's names, just in case you are accosted trying to bring her to your place. They can't really do anything to you other than waste your time and hassle you in the hopes of a payoff. So try to stay calm and enjoy the goodies you came to Kiev for. And just in case, you might feel more secure about things if you actually ascertained the number of your embassy and had it available.

LJ

[Sorbonne]

The police in Kiev are alert for the opportunity of a shake down. Just be sure to have your actual passport on you at all times when you leave the apartment. I was staying last weekend at an apartment near the Maidan and while walking to Buddha Bar at about 1am (I was the only pedestrian in sight as it was a rainy evening) I was stopped by uniformed police who asked for my passport and examined it to find the entry stamp from Ukraine immigration at the airport and then handed it back to me and wished me a good evening. I suppose if I hadn't taken it with me, they would have busted my chops until I gave them a payoff. But I had read about that ploy on this thread previously, so I took my passport with me when I left my apartment to go out, just in case. And it was lucky that I did. I suppose if you are going to bring a girl to your apartment, and you believe the police are staking out your apartment, then take a precaution and discuss and rehearse with the girl the basic elements of your story, such as that she is a friend coming to visit you, and if it's late perhaps that you are coming from a late night out at a nightclub, and make sure you know each other's names, just in case you are accosted trying to bring her to your place. They can't really do anything to you other than waste your time and hassle you in the hopes of a payoff. So try to stay calm and enjoy the goodies you came to Kiev for. And just in case, you might feel more secure about things if you actually ascertained the number of your embassy and had it available.

LJDear Liljoey,

Thanks. You did calm me down a little bit.

Well, I knew I was supposed to be carrying my passport at all time and do carry it at all time.

"They can't really do anything to you other than waste your time and hassle you in the hopes of a payoff."

I'm hoping this is true.

I do have the phone number of my embassy in my cell phone but do not think they would answer the phone in the evening or on weekends.

If the police hassle me, I thought about trying to take their photos with my cell phone. What do you think? Has anybody tried it? Is it better not to mess with the police?

I think I'm going to apologize to the massage girl for locking up my door behind her and for not helping her and to give her the $50 she lost.

[LilJoey]

dear liljoey,

thanks. you did calm me down a little bit.

well, i knew i was supposed to be carrying my passport at all time and do carry it at all time.

"they can't really do anything to you other than waste your time and hassle you in the hopes of a payoff."

i'm hoping this is true.

i do have the phone number of my embassy in my cell phone but do not think they would answer the phone in the evening or on weekends.

if the police hassle me, i thought about trying to take their photos with my cell phone. what do you think? has anybody tried it? is it better not to mess with the police?

i think i'm going to apologize to the massage girl for locking up my door behind her and for not helping her and to give her the $50 she lost.it's not a good idea to try to intimidate police who may be hassling you by taking their photos. in general actions of resistance merely provoke the police to harsher measures against you. this is true even in the usa, where there are real civil rights and the courts exercise real restraints and oversight of police activity, yet many a person has been severely beaten by police on the pretext they were "resisting arrest". so it is certainly so in lands that were hitherto behind an iron curtain, where the ingrained culture lends itself to abuse by authorities. i doubt whether in ukraine a person even has a civil right to be free from "unreasonable searches and siezures" as in the usa.

if you provoke the police by trying physically threaten or intimidate them, as well as psychologically intimidate them by actions like photographing them, i would not expect them to back down, but rather to escalate their actions against you. it's not a good idea. the least they may do is simply confirep001e your phone, or they might do much worse to you.

the best approach when dealing with police anywhere who are armed with weapons and the full authority of the state, especially as a tourist, is to submit peaceably, and wait for your opportunity for assistance, or to bribe your way out of the issue which seems to be the prime motivation in ukraine.

however, as in any legal system, it goes without saying, do not admit to any unlawful act and incriminate yourself, but stick to your story that the girl is just a friend or acquaintance.

by the way, i don't think you really could not have helped the girl. you getting involved would simply have given the police a greater possibility to substantiate their accusation of prostitution, and another target to hassle, and one with deeper pockets. you.

if you feel for the girl, why don't you simply give her more business, and the opportunity to earn the money she claims she lost back. that's also helping her, and just in case she is embellishing the facts a little, you won't end up being a sucker, unless you have reason to trust her implicitly.

lj

[Prosal]

policeThis reminds me when I was "arrested" by three large (I am myself large, but they were larger than me!) and vicious-looking plainclothes cops in a mall in Chisinau during an identity control; as I didn't carry my passport, they asked me to follow them outside, and took me to their car, a trashy old Mercedes, a real piece of shit. It was pretty scary to be in such a confined space with three guys that looked really like your typical FSU vicious flatheads. They said that if I didn't pay a 50 euros fine, we'll have to go to my apartment to verify my visa and identity. I worried a bit thinking that they could be "bad cops" (I knew they were not usurpers) but recovered my confidence and my sense of humour and agreed on that rather than to pay the bride.

On the way to my place, the car run out of gas, so we all four (!) took a Lada taxi to the next gas station, were they filled three old plastic bottles, as they had no jerry can. The suckers even tried to borrow me money to pay the gas! LOL. The taxi took us back to the Mercedes, that difficultly restarted (it was something like minus 15°C). Arriving at my apartment (because of the snow, there was lot of traffic, so it lasted an eternity) thry stayed on the doorstep and I showed them my passport, but they continued to hassle me, semi-joking that my passport was false, that I was in Moldova for women trafficking, that I maybe hid drugs in my place, ect. They were pretty upset as the more assertions they made the more ironic I was. One even took notes of everything I answered! It was like back in good old Soviet era when KGB harassed people. Anyway after some ten minutes they finally leaved.

The whole thing lasted maybe one hour.

In fact it was entertaining. During the first minutes, I was a bit worry, but this kind of adrenaline rushes is part of a trip in "deep" FSU!

[Climaxnow]

Guys, please advise, if you have advices![/QUOTE]Mind your own business!

[CityHunter77]

A brief summary of my trip

Almost all of my good RP contacts are in Moscow at the moment.

Mamba was pretty useless and girls I met were not very good looking.

Although I did meet a stunner via an Agency.

Student girls are on exams at end of June, another pain.

TravelGirls. Com was a pretty good resource for working and non-working Girls.

Rio is still good value for money and some real beauties to be found here

[AColonizer]

You should know, girls of all ages would like to have a piggish relation with coffe-milk skin men (one, two or three at the same time) : this is true for Italian women, this is true for Ukrainian girls, this is true with everywhere girls, this is the women's erotic dream, even if they always answer the opposite!

For my experience around the world, Americans didn't impressed me at all, and clever Italians are rare. Instead, Irishes are the best ones when the feeling is bastard.


I hate clichees, but "Italiano" is a running joke among girls in EE. Italians are well-known for their clumsy game and their cultural unawareness. All talk no action, and furthermore always in groups, unable to stand solo (unlike Americans, to their tribute). That said, it's a generalization. I already met Italians with an excellent game, a good cultural knowledge, and able to pick-up solo. Nonetheless one thing is certain, it's that EE devushki usually prefer the olive-skinned "latino" type of guy to the livid white-pale typical westerner.

You could try to present yourself as French. It's often synonym of rafinement, romantism, intelligence and cultural enlightening. (wink)

[AColonizer]

I explain that post.

That's just an example of a "sweet" girl making unbelievable things for cheap prices. She is the Romanian be* working in my home area, she swallows sperm (in apnea) for 20 euros, she receives multiple fistings at the same time for 100 euros / hour, gangbang (I mean everything Max Hardcore could imagine) for 300/350 euros / night (maybe less for bastards). Nontheless she is smart (she speaks 5 foreign languages).

The point is: it is sure, men could find at least one young, nice, clever, piggish, cheap prostitute in the same home area. Therefore it doesn't make sense to travel around the world and to waste time and money for prostitutes and freebies who are worth almost zero?


Is anybody interested in this girl? What would you like to do with her? (It is her surname in picture titles.)

[Epicurus]

LOL.

I just posted a question about travelgirls, so how was your experience with it? Did you meet any girl in person?


A brief summary of my trip

Almost all of my good RP contacts are in Moscow at the moment.

Mamba was pretty useless and girls I met were not very good looking.

Although I did meet a stunner via an Agency.

Student girls are on exams at end of June, another pain.

TravelGirls. Com was a pretty good resource for working and non-working Girls.

Rio is still good value for money and some real beauties to be found here

[Epicurus]

Is it true that it is no longer allowed to smoke in public / on the street in Kiev? What about in the clubs?

[Curious12]

Is it true that it is no longer allowed to smoke in public / on the street in Kiev? What about in the clubs?People smoke everywhere, even though there's a law and there are many restrictions. Officially you cannot smoke on the beach, in the park, in the elevator, near children playground, bus stop and 50 metres around it, church etc. Every time I was at Kreshatik street and was sitting at the bench, someone next to me was smoking. Restaurants have two areas. Smoking and non-smoking.

[LilJoey]

Trip for Weekend Aug 31 – Sept 6.

I am confronting the age old question of FKKs vs Kiev in designing my next trip. I'm undecided as to the best course for my upcoming trip on the Labor Day holiday weekend of Aug 31 – Sept 6. I have already booked my flight arriving in Frankfurt Sept 1 and returning from Frankfurt Sept 6. But I am torn between staying for all five nights of the long weekend in Frankfurt, or flying to Kiev for a visit from Sept 2 – 5, which will leave me with only the first night and the last night in Frankfurt, and three nights in Kiev in between.

The reason for my indecision is because of my reactions to what happened on my last recent trip to Kiev and Frankfurt for the weekend of July 1 – 5.

MY LAST TRIP: KIEV: The trip to Kiev was awesome. I had amazing sex with one of my favorite girls from Rio on Friday night, then on Saturday night I was with Alexandra, a new girl from Rio, and then Sunday I spent a wonderful 3 afternoon hours in bed with Alina, a sexy blond from vodkaescorts, and topped it off with an incredible 3 hour duo experience with my favorite Rio girl, together with Gella, a really cute blond, who was a new girl there. It was a great weekend filled with a total of 12 hours of very good sex at the $100 / hr rate and loads of awesome visual memories to savor until my next visit to Kiev.

MY LAST TRIP: FKKs: On the way back home, I spent the night of July 4 in Brussels and sampled the offerings of the red light district there on Aerschot Street alongside the Gare du Nord, and the next day I stopped in Frankfurt on July 5 and spent an amazing afternoon with three hot Romanian girls at FKK Oase which still has my head spinning. The three sessions at Oase were a total of four hours for 400 Euro plus the 65 Euro entrance fee, with the total cost in dollars for the four hours of bliss being approximately (465 Euro =) $650.

COSTS: Clearly, when one is considering large amounts of p4p sex over a weekend, an important aspect to consider is that the rates are much cheaper in Kiev than in the Frankfurt FKKs. For the 12 hours of sex that cost $1200 in Kiev, one would have to pay 1200 Euro, or $1684 USD in Frankfurt FKKs for the same amount of time.

BEAUTY: At the FKKs, the girls are mostly hot girls, definitely doable for the most part. I am partial to the dark-haired swarthy-looking girls from places like Romania and Bulgaria, who tend to have very sexy, sculpted hard—bodies. So I am a happy—camper in the FKKs where there are many such girls. Of course, at Oase I also saw the beautiful and sexy, Nina, a home—grown German blond sex machine. There are often very pretty Polish blondes there as well. But somehow, when I consider the Ukrainian hotties I have been fucking from Rio strip club, I personally feel that the Kiev girls are more consistently beautiful and more generally, on a higher level of looks than the FKK girls, but this is subjective, of course.

SERVICE: In this area, I feel that the FKK girls, in general, provide better service on a more consistent basis. The uncovered blow job is standard in the FKKs, whereas in Kiev, there is no guarantee of an uncovered blow job, or a concept of a 'standard service' that includes it. Each girl in Kiev is different, and an uncovered blow job must be agreed to separately.

NOTE: FKK standard session is supposed to include uncovered blow job, however, some girls have taken to trying to charge another 50 Euro for it as an 'extra, ' a practice we must unilaterally reject because it will ruin something that was great about the FKKs. The best way is to side—step the issue by telling the girl that instead of paying her 100 Euro for a 30 minute session with uncovered blow job, you are prepared to give her more time and pay her the 100 Euro for an hour session but only, of course, if the blow job is uncovered, and no more of this nonsense about extras. Most of the time it works for me, and if it doesn't, I pass on doing a session with such a girl charging as an extra for a service that was always considered included in the standard session. Of course, if you are a guy who doesn't want to spend 100 Euro for an hour session, this won't work for you, and you should pass on that girl.

ENVIRONMENT: I include this as a factor to consider because there is nothing quite like the impact of the environment of an FKK! When you walk into a room filled with gorgeous naked women, all wanting sex with you, just for the asking, it is a shocking, mind—blowing, truly unique experience, that cannot be rivaled. You will not find anything in Kiev to compare with this aspect. The FKK is a heady, sexual, hedonistic extravaganza, that has to be experienced to understand it, because words cannot capture the feeling of it adequately. I have compared it to having an open pass to go to Hugh Heffner's Playboy Mansion, where Centerfold models lounge around the pool and the grounds, and that you can also have sex with as many of those hot girls as you want, effortlessly. In Kiev, you have to do a lot more work to get good pussy into your bed.

SEXUAL CAPACITY: An important consideration is one's own sexual capacity. In the environment of the FKK, one can quickly become sexually exhausted. There is a limit on how many times a man can ejaculate in one day, and a limit in how long a man may be able to continue to maintain erections in order to perform sex, even with the assistance of pills like Viagra or Cialis. And multiplying the effects of having a lot of sex, by trying to do it for many days in a row, one after the other, one will certainly reach one's limit rather quickly in an FKK environment – a few days for most men. Since there is a separate entrance fee of 65 or 75 Euro to be paid when entering the FKK, it is to one's advantage to have as much sex as possible in each visit, to amortize the entrance cost over more sessions, which brings down the net cost for each session. Let's say, you're an average 47. 53 year old, and you can ejaculate 3 or 4 times a day, without too much problem, but at the FKK you're going to try to do this for a few days in a row on a weekend vacation. You will most likely find that you reached a saturation point for sex after a few days, and you won't even want to go have more sex. What you will feel you want most – is a rest! So for most men, it is best to break up visits to FKKs to no more than a few days at a time, unless you are a unique sexual amazon.

WHO WINS? : So with regard to the above considerations, Kiev wins when it comes to lower costs cumulatively and overall. (But FKKs win when it comes to unit cost, because in FKKs you can be with a girl for only half an hour at a cost of 50 Euro, whereas in Kiev you are required to go for an hour session for the most part, and in Rio there is a three hour minimum with each session). Kiev also wins when it comes to beauty. On the other hand, FKKs win when it comes to being assured of good service, including uncovered oral sex, as in Kiev this depends on each girl, although most of the girls that I have been with in Kiev did great uncovered blow jobs without even being asked. And FKKs win when it comes to sexuality of the environment. Kiev is merely a nightcub or strip club scene, or on the street, or outcalls to your apartment.

MY CONCLUSION: I think they both have their strong and weak points, so what I have done as a compromise, is to combine the two. I like to start in Frankfurt FKKs for a frenzied day or even two days, to get the edge off. And then, go to Kiev for the sex—weekend where the goal is to get the most beautiful girls possible to share my bed, and then return home by way of Frankfurt for a final FKK fling to bang as many hotties as is possible. So far, this approach has worked well for me. So that's probably what I'll do this time too.

LJ

[Me and You]

I was in Kiev in June. I met more than 20 girls: 4 friebies 2 of them I know from my previous visits to Kiev. 2 news feebies (restaurant. Party- shopping money.). WG one from Rio. One from Caribean, one from Dlux, and one from appartment. And the rest from Mamba (most semi pros). Most of them Girl Friend Experience GFE (DFK BBJ CIM and 3 anal) just 2 of them BJ (with condom) and 5 of them with no CIM. All the others do CIM. Usually the freebies and semi pros do cim. The very professional girls who work in agencies don't do cim and do with Condom. In general very good experiences (some of the semi even called to meet for free or for cheap money (300 grivnas) and one semi (student) offered to meet and offer anal because she needs some money ($100) urgently for university. The last 10 days in June less girls (students) as they started to go home in other provincies or Kiev"s girls go for holidays after exams, but still girls in Kiev but less chances for semi pros (especially students). I visited Rio few times and I got one. One time in Red Lion strip club but not super girls possible take out. Solid Gold expensive and few and not super girls and few people and possible take out. Zoloty Club. A newStrip Club in Arena Complex. Some hot girls. And they strip full naked at the end of the song but very soft lights (dark lights) and all girls make a tour every half hour to the tables to show themselves and invite clients for a private dance (200 grivna) I was with one. Not sure about take out as I was new there and the girl I choose for private dance said may be after work take out (she wanted me to stay all night there for drinks and Private dances) but I did not stay. I was not sure if that was only her or the system there or just a scam to stay to pay all night as there was few people. The best Strip Club still Rio but the quality is less than before (may be the students who works there during the year left to home or to holiday). In General it was very good.

I will post few fotos later in the Photo Gallery.

[BionicMan]

Trip for Weekend Aug 31 – Sept 6.

COSTS: Clearly, when one is considering large amounts of p4p sex over a weekend, an important aspect to consider is that the rates are much cheaper in Kiev than in the Frankfurt FKKs. For the 12 hours of sex that cost $1200 in Kiev, one would have to pay 1200 Euro, or $1684 USD in Frankfurt FKKs for the same amount of time.

LJHzve you taken into account the flight cost from Frankfurt to Kiev and return?

[TheKnight]

I went to Rio again, it was a little better than the first time. I was able to get a table pretty quickly, Mark was very helpful. Had dances from Albina (brown hair, about 20-22, she said she's a student and has been working at Rio for three months)I was very disappointed to read Albina is still working there. She is the only Rio girl I ever complained about (I've taken about 20-25 I imagine).

Awful attitude. Everyone please avoid her. I'd be disappointed if you even pay for a dance from her after reading this!

She did everything possible to avoid sex after the first time: and regular readers will know my M. O. Is to treat the girls well, so it was not my attitude at fault.

Indeed I am still in touch (vKontakte) with 3 ex-Rio girls and one ex-Solid Gold girl.

I did not post my experience here previously as Pasha told me it would be dealt with.

[LilJoey]

Hzve you taken into account the flight cost from Frankfurt to Kiev and return?But, of course, friend. Those prices were as follows: From frankfurt one can get a train to CGN Cologne / Bonn airport from where there are Wizzair flights to Kiev Zhulyany airport, but as of this writing it turns out that cheaper flights are available on Austrian Air for around $240. (Note: In the past, Ukraine Int'l Air (flyuia. Com) ran a very cheap route to Kiev from both Frankfurt and London, but they have raised their prices and are not as competitive anymore.)

But your question is only relevant for a monger who is already in Frankfurt or decided on going to Frankfurt, but is considering also going to Kiev, instead of paying for another 12 hours of p4p in Frankfurt at the slightly higher rate there. In this case, to answer your question, going to Kiev for those 12 hours of p4p will cost him $1200 as opposed to the $1684 it would cost in Frankfurt for the same amount of p4p, a cost difference of $484, while the travel cost for the flight to get to Kiev is $240. So one wouldn't lose money by going to Kiev and might actually save a little in p4p expenses. But this should not be one's only reason for going to Kiev, as it is only a small consideration.

However, my comparison of Kiev and Frankfurt prices is addressing the traveler who has not yet decided which city to visit in the first place, and is comparing the cost of p4p sex in each city.

Travel costs are a separate issue, although an important one. Getting to either city will incur trvel costs. From USA it is generally more expensive to fly to Kiev than to Frankfurt, but not by much, maybe $100 to $200 more in airfare. But one could also fly to London and take Wizzair flights to Kiev, or Ryanair flights to Frnkfurt Hahn and take the Bohr bus (1hr45min plus waiting time in Hahn airport until next bus) to Frankfurt Hbf, but these options require willingness to consume time and make multiple stopovers, and many will prefer the direct flights even at a higher cost.

For example, for the weekend in question I could have lessened the travel costs by flying first to Dublin on USAir for $592 and then taking Ryanair flights from Dublin to London Stansted, and then from London Stansted to Frankfurt Hahn, and then wait 1hr15min until the next Bohr bus to Frankfurt Hbf, all for a total of just over $700. But to avoid all the stops and waiting in between, I opted for the Singapore Air non stop flights direct to Frankfurt for $875, because I valued the convenience more than the $175 cost savings possible the first way.

For me, the deciding factors which caused me to decide to go to both cities, were the FKK's "environment" experience factors and the ability to be with many more women due to the lower unit cost at the FKK, while Kev's awesome beauties at low cost were the reasons I wanted to go there. I will have a strong taste of the goodies in the FKKs but not more than sexual capacity saturation would allow me to enjoy, and then off to serxcapades with the beauties in Kiev, to get the best of both worlds. The higher cost of getting to Europe from the USA makes it more worthwhile to try to cover both cities for a nominal increase in travel costs to get from Frankfurt to Kiev.

LJ

[Limarian]

I would be interested in names of mamba girls tried with ratings. I picked Erika from the uk part of the site and the photo turned out wildly optimistic.

[Webvantage]

Trip for Weekend Aug 31 – Sept 6.LJ, first off I have really enjoyed reading all your posts. Its a big help to someone like me, planning my first Ukraine trip, to have detailed posts like yours to read. I am glad to see that your next trip is going to line up with mine pretty nice. I am going to spend the first two weeks of September in Ukraine then fly over to Thailand for a working vacation. I will be traveling solo so if you are interested in a wing man, let me know. I have some girls lined up to meet, via mamba, but they are normal girls that I just plan on hanging out with. We will see if anything else happens. Anyways if you are interested in a wing man and someone that can use a helping hand in the Kiev scene shoot me a pm.

WV

[CityHunter77]

LOL.

I just posted a question about travelgirls, so how was your experience with it? Did you meet any girl in person?My experience was good and no photo shopping like mamba.

I had about 10 girls lined up from travel girls but met only 5 as I ran out of time.

Only expenses were wining and dining.

Keep your booze stocked up from Billa on the ground floor

If you are on a short visit, go to Rio. The girls are just awesome there

[LilJoey]

LJ, first off I have really enjoyed reading all your posts. Its a big help to someone like me, planning my first Ukraine trip, to have detailed posts like yours to read. I am glad to see that your next trip is going to line up with mine pretty nice. I am going to spend the first two weeks of September in Ukraine then fly over to Thailand for a working vacation. I will be traveling solo so if you are interested in a wing man, let me know. I have some girls lined up to meet, via mamba, but they are normal girls that I just plan on hanging out with. We will see if anything else happens. Anyways if you are interested in a wing man and someone that can use a helping hand in the Kiev scene shoot me a pm.

WVThanks for the encouraging words, WV. I learned a lot from those that came before me, particularly from the overview type of posts that one can find in various other threads under the heading of "Links to Reports of Distinction". Because the ground was changing under our feet in Kiev, during the period that I started to visit Kiev, what with the demise of River Palace, and the changes on top-modals. Com (from where I had gotten some great girls in the past) , toward mostly agencies with fake pics, I felt it important to continue to provide up to date information of a comprehensive overview type, that could help guide those who, like me not too long ago, needed to gain an understanding of the rules of the road in Kiev in order to make the best of a visit to this city. I also was entertained by the stories of some of the writers posting on this forum, so I tried to give as much substance to my posts as I could, to give the readers a real taste of what they might experience if they came here. If my efforts have benefitted you in making your own plans, or have entertained you, then my purpose was achieved.

Also happy to meet up with you for a drink at Rio or some other club I may go to one of the three nights I will be in town.

LJ

[Brian131]

Thanks to all of the forum posts. I just took my first mongering trip and hit FKK Oase well informed and had a blast. I'm in Afghanistan so my vacations are precious. Thank you for making the last one unbelievable.

I saw the recc for travelgirls just show up, which is funny because that's sort of what I logged in to ask about. However, I'm always worried about things that look too glossy. Here is what I want and hopefully someone can suggest how I can get it. I'm 40, somewhat overweight and not as good looking as I used to be. However, working girls always seem to dig me because I treat them like girlfriends. I may not be every girls cup of tea, but I've never met one who wasn't at least pleasant to me. I have 4 days in Kiev coming up and I want to meet a girl for a semi-regular travel companion. I travel every three months and try to take cool vacations. I know you don't have to be a WG to shower attention on someone who takes you on trips. I had an American friend in Hawaii who straight up told me she loved Maui and would sleep with anyone who took her there. So I'm looking to hook up with some cutie in Kiev who is going to make a good partner for a week long trip to Bali or something like that in January and more in the future. In Kiev, I don't mind spending some money on her, buy her a few modest presents and take her out to nice places. What I'm hoping is to score some chick who is at least partially charmed by someone who whisks her away to exotic places. Maybe she'd rather have a better looking guy than me, but hell, I'd sleep with a 6 who was taking me on a cool trip as long as she was pleasant to be around! I don't mind emailing her and tossing her $100 here and there between vacations but I don't want really want to be a full time sponser and I'd rather find some chick that just is awed by the trip. After being married, there seems to be no clear line between mistress, wife, girlfriend and working girl. I know some girl wants to be treated this way and will treat me however she thinks I want in exchange. So basically, what it boils down to is that I want to go on a honeymoon every three months for the price of a plane ticket, some nice (but normal) dinners and a few gifts here and there. My only real concern is that I'll end up with someone I don't want to be around when I'm not having sex. I need the company as much as anything when I get out of Shitghanistan. The real limiting factor is that I have only 4 days in Kiev when I go to interview.

Hey guys, I know it may be too much to ask, but I know it's possible. I figured you would know if anyone did!

Thanks!

[Me and You]

Hi friend. This is very easy for you. Many girls likes even wishs to find someone to pay their holiday and they would rip loose (sex possible). Use just Mamba site, English version and then seach on Fellow Traveller and you can search the girls by the countries they like to travel to and the language they speak then you can see their fotos and chat with them about all the details and then you can meet them in person when you go to Kiev and see who is the the one or more that you like to choose for a holiday. Good luck.


The real limiting factor is that I have only 4 days in Kiev when I go to interview.

Hey guys, I know it may be too much to ask, but I know it's possible. I figured you would know if anyone did!

Thanks!

[Bootie26]

Well, it was my first time in Ukraine and I stayed for a total of 10 days, from 20-30 of April. 2011.

I spent the whole stay in Kiev with me older brother. We were planning to stay in a hotel in the beginning, but after we checked the prices for 5 star hotels we quickly changed our minds. After extensive search over the internet we found some furnished hotel apartments for a fraction of a 5star hotel room that offered MORE than a 5star hotel suite. We ended up going for "Senator Apartments", if anyone is interested. About 180 euros a night for a top notch one bedroom apartment with most of the services of a hotel only better accomidation.

Anyways, these forums are not about that, I figured it might be helpful for newbies that are looking for accomidation.

1st Night:

We arrived early off a connecting flight from Istanbul. Checked in, and I started dialing some digits. I spent a good 3 weeks prior, on mamba talking to girls and gathering some numbers for the trip. First on me list was a girl on mamba of Russian and tatar decent. She ended up being a keeper and a GF experience YMMV. Recently divorced and with a 4 year old baby. We instantly clicked and I decided she was a keeper, she worked during the night time or had to mind her baby so it was perfect for me to use that time to find other prospects. I decided she would be my daytime GF and so she was. I ended up spending most daytime with her getting GF sex. BBBJ, DATY, BB (we clicked so much that I BB her straight away and as risky and stupid as it was, almost three months later my tests came clean) , Anal (towards the end of the trip) , DFK etc. We were tired from the trip so we called it an early night.

2nd Night:

We decided to check the famous Rio. Boy what a horrible experience it was. We were totally CLUELESS. We didn't realize that the club was basically 3 levels of experience, and it is not a given that you would realize that from the first random visit either. We ended up spending the most of the night in the first level (newbie) until we were almost [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) drunk. Wondering what the whole fuss was about. A bunch of girls dancing in lengrie. Afterwards, I remembered a comment about tipping one of the floor managers for a VIP table. So I ended up [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) drunk dashing a 100$ bill like an idiot. Then I was upgraded to level 2. Now the girls were kind of naked. Seemed cool. We got more drunk, went up trying to tip a girl or two to come to my table. None of them gave any attention. The floor manager that we gave a hefty tip to got us two girls. Both were hot. We drank and hang out with them, then when we discussed going back home they demanded money upfront. As the clueless we were about the system. We refused and kicked them from the table. Needless to say we ended up going home empty handed with a huge wasted bill to pay at the end of the night. We were like we are NEVER going to come to this shithole again. God were we dead wrong on Rio at the end of our trip!

Rest to be continued.

[LilJoey]

Well, it was my first time in Ukraine and I stayed for a total of 10 days, from 20-30 of April. 2011.

I spent the whole stay in Kiev with me older brother. We were planning to stay in a hotel in the beginning, but after we checked the prices for 5 star hotels we quickly changed our minds. After extensive search over the internet we found some furnished hotel apartments for a fraction of a 5star hotel room that offered MORE than a 5star hotel suite. We ended up going for "Senator Apartments", if anyone is interested. About 180 euros a night for a top notch one bedroom apartment with most of the services of a hotel only better accomidation.

Anyways, these forums are not about that, I figured it might be helpful for newbies that are looking for accomidation.

1st Night:

We arrived early off a connecting flight from Istanbul. Checked in, and I started dialing some digits. I spent a good 3 weeks prior, on mamba talking to girls and gathering some numbers for the trip. First on me list was a girl on mamba of Russian and tatar decent. She ended up being a keeper and a GF experience YMMV. Recently divorced and with a 4 year old baby. We instantly clicked and I decided she was a keeper, she worked during the night time or had to mind her baby so it was perfect for me to use that time to find other prospects. I decided she would be my daytime GF and so she was. I ended up spending most daytime with her getting GF sex. BBBJ, DATY, BB (we clicked so much that I BB her straight away and as risky and stupid as it was, almost three months later my tests came clean) , Anal (towards the end of the trip) , DFK etc. We were tired from the trip so we called it an early night.

2nd Night:

We decided to check the famous Rio. Boy what a horrible experience it was. We were totally CLUELESS. We didn't realize that the club was basically 3 levels of experience, and it is not a given that you would realize that from the first random visit either. We ended up spending the most of the night in the first level (newbie) until we were almost [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) drunk. Wondering what the whole fuss was about. A bunch of girls dancing in lengrie. Afterwards, I remembered a comment about tipping one of the floor managers for a VIP table. So I ended up [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) drunk dashing a 100$ bill like an idiot. Then I was upgraded to level 2. Now the girls were kind of naked. Seemed cool. We got more drunk, went up trying to tip a girl or two to come to my table. None of them gave any attention. The floor manager that we gave a hefty tip to got us two girls. Both were hot. We drank and hang out with them, then when we discussed going back home they demanded money upfront. As the clueless we were about the system. We refused and kicked them from the table. Needless to say we ended up going home empty handed with a huge wasted bill to pay at the end of the night. We were like we are NEVER going to come to this shithole again. God were we dead wrong on Rio at the end of our trip!

Rest to be continued.Dear Bootie26.

I hope you meant you gave the manager at Rio 100 Grivna (about $12. 50 USD) and that you didn't actually give him $100 USD, based as you stated on information in this forum. That's purely ridiculous. No rational person could have been mislead by what has been written in this forum to think that a tip in Kiev Ukraine could be $100. So it would appear that you were indeed, very, very drunk. This would explain the rest of the inaccuracies you wrote about the goings on at Rio strip club, which I frequent whenever I am in Kiev and am quite familiar with. I believe your perceptions and understanding were clouded by the effects of the alcohol. Just so other newbies don't get confused, the striptease at all the rooms in the club on all its floors is the same and there is no room downstairs where girls dance only in lingerie, and an "upgraded" type of striptease in an upstairs room where the girls get naked. That is not the case. Instead the girls on all the floors all start their dance set of several songs wearing whatever costume they chose, and as the songs progress they take off garments and they are all certainly topless during the last song of their dance set. What probably happened to you, Bootie26, is that you weren't paying attention long enough on each floor to perceive the true system at play. I always thought that the hottest girls were dancing downstairs and had the perception that it is the club's preferred room. Customers usually get sent to the upstairs rooms because the downstairs room gets full. You should also know that being very drunk is in poor form in a club like Rio and the girls will shy away from dealing with guys who are very drunk. I recently reported that in the VIP room upstairs when I was last there in the beginning of July the situation was that the girls were not dancing on the small stage for two dancers in front of the couch and when I asked why, the manager told me they didn't want to dance there then because there were a bunch of very drunk guys sitting on that couch. It is entirely understandable.

Lastly, I know it is a leap of faith to pay the money up front. Unfortunately you were not prepared for this with knowledge of how it works at Rio. Paying first must have seemed suspicious to you. It is exactly how the nightclubs (stripclubs) in Budapest, for example, do rip off their customers. The Budapest clubs ask for hundreds of dollars to buy a bottle of champagne for the girl upon the promise that she will come home to your hotel with you, which of course is a lie and fraud. There were even websites where effort was made to differentiate the cheating clubs in Budapest from honest clubs in Budapest. That was the situation a few years ago when I last visited Budapest. I don't know what the situation is currently, but I couldn't imagine how clubs that cheat the tourists could economically survive long in this day and age of the internet. I was sure that the neanderthals who ran these clubs in Budapest with the "behind the Iron Curtain mentality" they had grown up with, would soon suffer the consequences of an open market with open information flow and become extinct. However, maybe they sustain themselves on the principle that "a new sucker is born every day" and there will always be some uninformed putz who will walk in to their rip off nightclub / stripclub, and despite seeing absolutely no other customers there, sit down and let themselves get ripped off. They prefer that rip off system, to actually providing the services promised and getting repeat business from a good reputation. Anyway, that's Budapest. But not so in Rio. In Rio you pay first and then you DO get the goodies. I suspect the girls must be required to leave the money at the Rio club and they don't take it with them when they go out with you. This is the reason some are anxious to get back to the club after the date, so they can collect their money. However, from the last line of ypur post it sounds like you wised-up at some point afterward and were able to enjoy the company of some of Kiev's fine ladies. I suppose it is needless to say that you could have spared yourself the bumpy ride you experienced in your initial interactions in Kiev by reading the forum here more carefully and preparing for your Kiev adventure more properly. That's one of the things this forum is for. To guide newbies so they can have a great trip by having the right information so they can do things the right way. Oh well, there is always your next trip where you will make up for it, since you know the way it works now.

Waiting for your next report.

LJ

[CityHunter77]

LJ.

Regarding Rio, I think the girls on the top floor are usually better looking. Upstairs is always full and bottom is more or less empty.

This is what I noticed in my June trip, your experiences might have been different. I did go during weekdays mostly to avoid the weekend rush.

Does Club Paradise have the same pricing and policy as Rio?


Dear Bootie26.

I hope you meant you gave the manager at Rio 100 Grivna (about $12. 50 USD) and that you didn't actually give him $100 USD, based as you stated on information in this forum. That's purely ridiculous. No rational person could have been mislead by what has been written in this forum to think that a tip in Kiev Ukraine could be $100. So it would appear that you were indeed, very, very drunk. This would explain the rest of the inaccuracies you wrote about the goings on at Rio strip club, which I frequent whenever I am in Kiev and am quite familiar with. I believe your perceptions and understanding were clouded by the effects of the alcohol. Just so other newbies don't get confused, the striptease at all the rooms in the club on all its floors is the same and there is no room downstairs where girls dance only in lingerie, and an "upgraded" type of striptease in an upstairs room where the girls get naked. That is not the case. Instead the girls on all the floors all start their dance set of several songs wearing whatever costume they chose, and as the songs progress they take off garments and they are all certainly topless during the last song of their dance set. What probably happened to you, Bootie26, is that you weren't paying attention long enough on each floor to perceive the true system at play. I always thought that the hottest girls were dancing downstairs and had the perception that it is the club's preferred room. Customers usually get sent to the upstairs rooms because the downstairs room gets full. You should also know that being very drunk is in poor form in a club like Rio and the girls will shy away from dealing with guys who are very drunk. I recently reported that in the VIP room upstairs when I was last there in the beginning of July the situation was that the girls were not dancing on the small stage for two dancers in front of the couch and when I asked why, the manager told me they didn't want to dance there then because there were a bunch of very drunk guys sitting on that couch. It is entirely understandable.

But not so in Rio. In Rio you pay first and then you DO get the goodies. I suspect the girls must be required to leave the money at the Rio club and they don't take it with them when they go out with you. This is the reason some are anxious to get back to the club after the date, so they can collect their money. However, from the last line of ypur post it sounds like you wised-up at some point afterward and were able to enjoy the company of some of Kiev's fine ladies. I suppose it is needless to say that you could have spared yourself the bumpy ride you experienced in your initial interactions in Kiev by reading the forum here more carefully and preparing for your Kiev adventure more properly. That's one of the things this forum is for. To guide newbies so they can have a great trip by having the right information so they can do things the right way. Oh well, there is always your next trip where you will make up for it, since you know the way it works now.

Waiting for your next report.

LJ

[Me and You]

Regarding Rio and from what I ve been told from the girls, the girls rotate between then upper and down floor every month and sometimes every 2 weeks. So they are the same girls in all the places. And the new girls may start down or up. Depends on the number of girls they have or they girls who left. And the season. It is the same level of girls all over the place. In every floor they have the different categories of girls (from 7 to 10). I went in different days, in week ends or in week days.

Sometimes I saw some girl dancing down after she was up few days before. The girls rotate. Don't forget that this is a one same place. And they try to satisfy all clients in all floors.


LJ.

Regarding Rio, I think the girls on the top floor are usually better looking. Upstairs is always full and bottom is more or less empty.

This is what I noticed in my June trip, your experiences might have been different. I did go during weekdays mostly to avoid the weekend rush.

Does Club Paradise have the same pricing and policy as Rio?

[LilJoey]

LJ.

Regarding Rio, I think the girls on the top floor are usually better looking. Upstairs is always full and bottom is more or less empty.

This is what I noticed in my June trip, your experiences might have been different. I did go during weekdays mostly to avoid the weekend rush.

Does Club Paradise have the same pricing and policy as Rio?Yes, Paradise has the same pricing, and also the same girls who rotate there from club Rio to dance.

[TheKnight]

Yes, Paradise has the same pricing, and also the same girls who rotate there from club Rio to dance.Indeed, Rio was so popular (with tourists and local elitniy) that they just replicated almost everything, bar prices, girls, topless only, takeout price.

And I don't know about you LJ, but it seems totally random to me on which of the 3 floors the hottest girls will be on recent visits. Certainly the VIP area has not had a consistently better selection in my experience.

Indeed, I think the ground floor seems to have a higher number of girls willing to leave the club with you. VIP seems to be full of "dancers only". Although I know a few of the girls refuse to go with client after around 2. 30 or 3am because it would be 0700 before they got home and some have college or work and others have babysitters to relieve.

I have a soft spot for the ground floor anyway from years back when it was definitely the best part of the club. Mere mortals or tourists got directed up the spiral staircase and the lower bar remained unknown to many. Then they had the fire and it all changed! Not sure if memory is playing tricks with me, but I seem to recall at some point in the distant past didn't the girls downstairs go fully naked on the stage? Maybe some other Kyiv old-hand can correct me (maybe 7, 8 or even 10 years ago?)

My next trip will also be in September, ready for the fresh university recruits arriving from the provinces!

[LilJoey]

Indeed, Rio was so popular (with tourists and local elitniy) that they just replicated almost everything, bar prices, girls, topless only, takeout price.

And I don't know about you LJ, but it seems totally random to me on which of the 3 floors the hottest girls will be on recent visits. Certainly the VIP area has not had a consistently better selection in my experience.

Indeed, I think the ground floor seems to have a higher number of girls willing to leave the club with you. VIP seems to be full of "dancers only". Although I know a few of the girls refuse to go with client after around 2. 30 or 3am because it would be 0700 before they got home and some have college or work and others have babysitters to relieve.

I have a soft spot for the ground floor anyway from years back when it was definitely the best part of the club. Mere mortals or tourists got directed up the spiral staircase and the lower bar remained unknown to many. Then they had the fire and it all changed! Not sure if memory is playing tricks with me, but I seem to recall at some point in the distant past didn't the girls downstairs go fully naked on the stage? Maybe some other Kyiv old-hand can correct me (maybe 7, 8 or even 10 years ago?)

My next trip will also be in September, ready for the fresh university recruits arriving from the provinces!

WHERE THE HOTTEST RIO GIRLS ARE?

Let's approach this logically, since the impressions given by different writers in recent posts give divergent views about where (which floor. Which bar) the hottest girls in Rio are located. To say that hotter girls are dancing in one bar or room at Rio than other bars or rooms as a rule, presumes that the people who make decisions at Rio as to who dances where, have an intention and a plan as to this. If not, then it is random chance as to which girl will be dancing on which floor and in which bar, or it may be there is a plan, but that some other criteria than "hotness" of the girls is being used to make work assignments for the girls.

I think many visitors to Rio can confirm what happens when a new person comes to Rio, or even a known customer comes in later in the evening. They are usually told it is full downstairs and they are ushered to the upstairs outer or inner bar. What this clearly implies is that the downstairs gets full first. Who does it get full with? There are local regulars who may have made a reservation. There are also tourists who are regular customers known to the managers who regularly visit the club and always tip the managers, who the managers will find a place for in the downstairs bar if possible. What this means is that there is a higher "demand" for seating in the downstairs bar. Does this higher demand for seating in the downstairs bar, that is cultivated by management, also mean that management makes an effort to insure that hotter girls are dancing in the downstairs bar? Probably. And it accords with my perceptions and recollections. Also girls would want to be dancing where there are guys who are regular big spenders.

This is not to say that there aren't also hot girls dancing in the upstairs bars (the inner and outer room). Of course there are many hot girls on both floors. What we are talking about is whether there is more of a concentration of hotties in the downstairs bar. In a given allotment of significant time, let's say an hour or two, will one see more hot girls in the downstairs bar, compared to the upstairs bar? Possibly.

But on the other hand it is also entirely possible that the higher demand and preference for seating in the downstairs bar has nothing to do with hotties dancing there, and simply is a way of according that downstairs bar some more status so as to cater to their VIP very monied regulars, and where the hotties dance is random.

I have seen so many hotties in the upstairs bars, that the matter is just inconclusive to me.

In the VIP room upstairs I thought I perceived a pattern about the type of girls who dance in the VIP. There were many girls who were very young, quite petite and cute in the VIP. There were also some taller really beautiful stunners like Rosa (who no longer works at Rio) and Taya. But I'm not sure if it's coincidence, or that management had made a conscious decision to have a certain type of girl.

Currently I will just start in either downstairs of upstairs room, and ask to change rooms if I don't see girls I like in the line up of the room I am in within about 20 minutes or so.

LJ

[Jonas B]

Hi Guys,

Next month some friends and I will be in Kiev for few days for the first time.

From what I have read here, I should at least check out the Rio but is there other places you would recommend?

Is it save for me to take a taxi alone if I want to visit some others places that my friends are not interested (thinking some massage parlors).

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thank you

[EagleJohny]

Hi Guys,

Next month some friends and I will be in Kiev for few days for the first time.

From what I have read here, I should at least check out the Rio but is there other places you would recommend?

Is it save for me to take a taxi alone if I want to visit some others places that my friends are not interested (thinking some massage parlors).

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thank youMe and my friends do have the same question, we (4 guys, age 22-24) also go for the first time to Kiev for 5 days in August.

We have read this forum but some suggestions are welcome. We also like to checkout the vodka-bar, does somebody know what type of girls are there freebies, pro / semi pro's?

Last month I went to Dubai. When I entered a club (york club) , the place was packed with P4P al the WG's were approaching me directly. Is this the same in a specific club in Kiev or is it only in clubs like Rio?

Thank you

[EagleJohny]

Hi Guys,

Next month some friends and I will be in Kiev for few days for the first time.

From what I have read here, I should at least check out the Rio but is there other places you would recommend?

Is it save for me to take a taxi alone if I want to visit some others places that my friends are not interested (thinking some massage parlors).

Any suggestions are welcome.

Thank youMe and my friends do have the same question, we (4 guys, age 22-24) also go for the first time to Kiev for 5 days in August.

We have read this forum but some suggestions are welcome. We also like to checkout the vodka-bar, does somebody know what type of girls are there freebies, pro / semi pro's?

Last month I went to Dubai. When I entered a club (york club) , the place was packed with P4P al the WG's were approaching me directly. Is this the same in a specific club in Kiev or is it only in clubs like Rio?

Thank you

[Curious12]

Last month I went to Dubai. When I entered a club (york club) , the place was packed with P4P al the WG's were approaching me directly. Is this the same in a specific club in Kiev or is it only in clubs like Rio?

Thank youIt used to be like that at RP. It's different at other clubs and Rio. When you visit Rio, you have to tell administrator / manager which girl you like. After that he will approach a girl on stage and quietly tell her "after your dance, go to table 1, 2, 3, 4" The girl will come to your table and you can start talking to her. When you visit regular clubs (D'Lux, Buddha Bar, Arena etc.) , you will have to approach the girls directly.

[Biefstuk]

It used to be like that at RP. It's different at other clubs and Rio. When you visit Rio, you have to tell administrator / manager which girl you like. After that he will approach a girl on stage and quietly tell her "after your dance, go to table 1, 2, 3, 4" The girl will come to your table and you can start talking to her. When you visit regular clubs (D'Lux, Buddha Bar, Arena etc.) , you will have to approach the girls directly.@EaglyJohnny: HINT: Two months ago I had the same question. You just have to get some feeling with approaching the (available) girls. My first approach was a disaster, I approached a girl in D'lux because I thought she was a WG, but then her 'extreme big boyfriend' came to me. He wasn't that nice, so had to run for my life. After visiting some other clubs you will get some experience and you will easily recognise the WG from the normal party girls!

Enjoy!

[CityHunter77]

Me and my friends do have the same question, we (4 guys, age 22-24) also go for the first time to Kiev for 5 days in August.

We have read this forum but some suggestions are welcome. We also like to checkout the vodka-bar, does somebody know what type of girls are there freebies, pro / semi pro's?

Last month I went to Dubai. When I entered a club (york club) , the place was packed with P4P al the WG's were approaching me directly. Is this the same in a specific club in Kiev or is it only in clubs like Rio?

Thank youEJ.

Dubai is completely different from the clubs in Kiev. You need to directly approach the girls.

Vodka-bar is ok and you can get all types here but quality of the girls isn't too great. I think you should check out D'Lux instead, it's 200 UAH entrance at weekends but some really hot ladies to be found here.

[CastOnThis]

EJ.

Dubai is completely different from the clubs in Kiev. You need to directly approach the girls.

Vodka-bar is ok and you can get all types here but quality of the girls isn't too great. I think you should check out D'Lux instead, it's 200 UAH entrance at weekends but some really hot ladies to be found here.Where is D'Lux? Don't give me name of street because I can't read Ukrainian. Give me the area around it. Is it close to independence square?

[Harry Hirsch]

Very close to the main entrance of the football stadium.

Dynamo Kiev, old football stadium.

[CityHunter77]

Where is D'Lux? Don't give me name of street because I can't read Ukrainian. Give me the area around it. Is it close to independence square?Yes it's past Independence square, take a cab if not sure.

Address is Hrushevskoho 3

[Ezyngo]

I have 10 days of vacations coming up from Aug. 31 to Sept. 10. I am thinking of a first trip to Ukraine. May I have few questions for our experienced mongers to Ukraine? 1) If you were me, where would you go? Kiev or Odessa, taken into account the cost of airline tickets, quality of girls and costs of your stay, I. E, girls, hotels, and food. I live in Los Angeles, California. If is a longgggggg way to Ukraine. 2) Would you split your vacations? 5 days in Kiev and 5 days in Odessa. 3) Do you have a list of hotels in both cities?

Keep in mind that I am somewhat budget-oriented.

Good days gents.

EZ

[Fsu123]

I have 10 days of vacations coming up from Aug. 31 to Sept. 10. I am thinking of a first trip to Ukraine. May I have few questions for our experienced mongers to Ukraine? 1) If you were me, where would you go? Kiev or Odessa, taken into account the cost of airline tickets, quality of girls and costs of your stay, I. E, girls, hotels, and food. I live in Los Angeles, California. If is a longgggggg way to Ukraine. 2) Would you split your vacations? 5 days in Kiev and 5 days in Odessa. 3) Do you have a list of hotels in both cities?

Keep in mind that I am somewhat budget-oriented.

Good days gents.

EZFrom LA and having lived in both, I vote Kiev. Odessa is a bit less expensive but I feel like Kiev has much more going on.

Stick with apartments and make sure you book in advance (like now) especially for Odessa if you go there.

www.kievapts.com

www.odessapats.com

[Maxime]

Interesting comparision. (see also my other post). I think FKKs and visiting Kiev (or any other eastern-european city) are totally different things. When I am in Kiev, I almost always succeed in having non-paid sex, because there are many girls around, and also many non-pros like to have a good time. It is of course not completely for free, because you pay for drinks, dinner, etc, but not for the sex directly. If you are able to pick-up girls in your homeland, then you are also able to do this in Kiev and you end up with much better girls than at home IMHO! Also you will have DFK and OWO as "standard" with these kind of dates, but of course it can also result in a less succesfull evening with no sex at all.

If you look strictly at paid sex (so professional workers) , I agree with most of the things Liljoey wrote. And especially because the service level in Kiev (and other cities) is very unpredictable, compared to the very reliable FKKs in Germany, I would always choose for the latter one. In e. G. Oase, all girls must offer DFK and OWO as standard (if they ask extra for it, and management knows about it, they are warned only one time. 2nd time they can go!) , and most of the girls offer CIM, CIF and A-level if you are willing to pay extra for this, but all in all for me this results in a 90% score of good sessions when I go there.

Of course focus in the FKKs is purely on sex, little relax in between, but then sex again (I Love it!) , but if you want a more relaxig and cultural environment, and also have some non-sex quality time with a beautiful woman on your side, visiting Kiev (and other cities) is a better choice and has a more relaxing atmosphere, and as said, you better find a non-pro girl on the street / shops / restaurants / bars / etc before going to pay for it. It seems Club Caribean still has a mix of "regular" and "pros" being present, so you can then always decide what you want.


Trip for Weekend Aug 31 – Sept 6.

I am confronting the age old question of FKKs vs Kiev in designing my next trip. I'm undecided as to the best course for my upcoming trip on the Labor Day holiday weekend of Aug 31 – Sept 6. I have already booked my flight arriving in Frankfurt Sept 1 and returning from Frankfurt Sept 6. But I am torn between staying for all five nights of the long weekend in Frankfurt, or flying to Kiev for a visit from Sept 2 – 5, which will leave me with only the first night and the last night in Frankfurt, and three nights in Kiev in between.

The reason for my indecision is because of my reactions to what happened on my last recent trip to Kiev and Frankfurt for the weekend of July 1 – 5.

MY LAST TRIP: KIEV: The trip to Kiev was awesome. I had amazing sex with one of my favorite girls from Rio on Friday night, then on Saturday night I was with Alexandra, a new girl from Rio, and then Sunday I spent a wonderful 3 afternoon hours in bed with Alina, a sexy blond from vodkaescorts, and topped it off with an incredible 3 hour duo experience with my favorite Rio girl, together with Gella, a really cute blond, who was a new girl there. It was a great weekend filled with a total of 12 hours of very good sex at the $100 / hr rate and loads of awesome visual memories to savor until my next visit to Kiev.

MY LAST TRIP: FKKs: On the way back home, I spent the night of July 4 in Brussels and sampled the offerings of the red light district there on Aerschot Street alongside the Gare du Nord, and the next day I stopped in Frankfurt on July 5 and spent an amazing afternoon with three hot Romanian girls at FKK Oase which still has my head spinning. The three sessions at Oase were a total of four hours for 400 Euro plus the 65 Euro entrance fee, with the total cost in dollars for the four hours of bliss being approximately (465 Euro =) $650.

COSTS: Clearly, when one is considering large amounts of p4p sex over a weekend, an important aspect to consider is that the rates are much cheaper in Kiev than in the Frankfurt FKKs. For the 12 hours of sex that cost $1200 in Kiev, one would have to pay 1200 Euro, or $1684 USD in Frankfurt FKKs for the same amount of time.

BEAUTY: At the FKKs, the girls are mostly hot girls, definitely doable for the most part. I am partial to the dark-haired swarthy-looking girls from places like Romania and Bulgaria, who tend to have very sexy, sculpted hard—bodies. So I am a happy—camper in the FKKs where there are many such girls. Of course, at Oase I also saw the beautiful and sexy, Nina, a home—grown German blond sex machine. There are often very pretty Polish blondes there as well. But somehow, when I consider the Ukrainian hotties I have been fucking from Rio strip club, I personally feel that the Kiev girls are more consistently beautiful and more generally, on a higher level of looks than the FKK girls, but this is subjective, of course.

SERVICE: In this area, I feel that the FKK girls, in general, provide better service on a more consistent basis. The uncovered blow job is standard in the FKKs, whereas in Kiev, there is no guarantee of an uncovered blow job, or a concept of a 'standard service' that includes it. Each girl in Kiev is different, and an uncovered blow job must be agreed to separately.

NOTE: FKK standard session is supposed to include uncovered blow job, however, some girls have taken to trying to charge another 50 Euro for it as an 'extra, ' a practice we must unilaterally reject because it will ruin something that was great about the FKKs. The best way is to side—step the issue by telling the girl that instead of paying her 100 Euro for a 30 minute session with uncovered blow job, you are prepared to give her more time and pay her the 100 Euro for an hour session but only, of course, if the blow job is uncovered, and no more of this nonsense about extras. Most of the time it works for me, and if it doesn't, I pass on doing a session with such a girl charging as an extra for a service that was always considered included in the standard session. Of course, if you are a guy who doesn't want to spend 100 Euro for an hour session, this won't work for you, and you should pass on that girl.

ENVIRONMENT: I include this as a factor to consider because there is nothing quite like the impact of the environment of an FKK! When you walk into a room filled with gorgeous naked women, all wanting sex with you, just for the asking, it is a shocking, mind—blowing, truly unique experience, that cannot be rivaled. You will not find anything in Kiev to compare with this aspect. The FKK is a heady, sexual, hedonistic extravaganza, that has to be experienced to understand it, because words cannot capture the feeling of it adequately. I have compared it to having an open pass to go to Hugh Heffner's Playboy Mansion, where Centerfold models lounge around the pool and the grounds, and that you can also have sex with as many of those hot girls as you want, effortlessly. In Kiev, you have to do a lot more work to get good pussy into your bed.

SEXUAL CAPACITY: An important consideration is one's own sexual capacity. In the environment of the FKK, one can quickly become sexually exhausted. There is a limit on how many times a man can ejaculate in one day, and a limit in how long a man may be able to continue to maintain erections in order to perform sex, even with the assistance of pills like Viagra or Cialis. And multiplying the effects of having a lot of sex, by trying to do it for many days in a row, one after the other, one will certainly reach one's limit rather quickly in an FKK environment – a few days for most men. Since there is a separate entrance fee of 65 or 75 Euro to be paid when entering the FKK, it is to one's advantage to have as much sex as possible in each visit, to amortize the entrance cost over more sessions, which brings down the net cost for each session. Let's say, you're an average 47. 53 year old, and you can ejaculate 3 or 4 times a day, without too much problem, but at the FKK you're going to try to do this for a few days in a row on a weekend vacation. You will most likely find that you reached a saturation point for sex after a few days, and you won't even want to go have more sex. What you will feel you want most – is a rest! So for most men, it is best to break up visits to FKKs to no more than a few days at a time, unless you are a unique sexual amazon.

WHO WINS? : So with regard to the above considerations, Kiev wins when it comes to lower costs cumulatively and overall. (But FKKs win when it comes to unit cost, because in FKKs you can be with a girl for only half an hour at a cost of 50 Euro, whereas in Kiev you are required to go for an hour session for the most part, and in Rio there is a three hour minimum with each session). Kiev also wins when it comes to beauty. On the other hand, FKKs win when it comes to being assured of good service, including uncovered oral sex, as in Kiev this depends on each girl, although most of the girls that I have been with in Kiev did great uncovered blow jobs without even being asked. And FKKs win when it comes to sexuality of the environment. Kiev is merely a nightcub or strip club scene, or on the street, or outcalls to your apartment.

MY CONCLUSION: I think they both have their strong and weak points, so what I have done as a compromise, is to combine the two. I like to start in Frankfurt FKKs for a frenzied day or even two days, to get the edge off. And then, go to Kiev for the sex—weekend where the goal is to get the most beautiful girls possible to share my bed, and then return home by way of Frankfurt for a final FKK fling to bang as many hotties as is possible. So far, this approach has worked well for me. So that's probably what I'll do this time too.

LJ

[Sorbonne]

Just back to Kiev from Maldives where I stayed for a week with a girl I met in Kiev. I paid for the entire cost of the trip, but she is a regular girl, meaning I did not pay her. I have to say it was a blast for me in the late 40s to make love to a beauty 25 year junior everyday in a water bungalow. Not possible in the USA unless you're a movie star.

So, who's in Kiev now? I will be here until August 4th. Let's hit Rio together or something. Please send me a PM. Thanks.

[Sorbonne]

I have struggled with this question as well. I went to FFKs every year from 2003 to 2009. I have been to Kiev every year from 2007 to 2011. I have gradually shifted toward Kiev.

[Ezyngo]

Just back to Kiev from Maldives where I stayed for a week with a girl I met in Kiev. I paid for the entire cost of the trip, but she is a regular girl, meaning I did not pay her. I have to say it was a blast for me in the late 40s to make love to a beauty 25 year junior everyday in a water bungalow. Not possible in the USA unless you're a movie star.

So, who's in Kiev now? I will be here until August 4th. Let's hit Rio together or something. Please send me a PM. Thanks.Sounds like you definitely had a blast. Absolutely not possible in the States. Where did you meet this girl? I am planning a trip from August 31 to September 10 to Kiev. Yes, it will be my first. I've been to a lot of countries in South America but I thought a change of 'scenery' should be in order. It gets old after a while. I wonder if I can survive without speaking a word in Russian there. I feel uncomfortable thinking about this. I would appreciate any suggestions you and other experienced mongers to Ukraine. A member by the name of 'Me and you' advised me that in order to meet semi-pro or non pro that I'd 'Better your start your search before you go to Kiev' but my question is where do I start? And lastly if any of you will be in Kiev around about the same time as my trip, please PM me. The first round of beers is on me. Or even the second round. LOL.

Good days gents.

EZ

[Member #4274]

Sounds like you definitely had a blast. Absolutely not possible in the States. Where did you meet this girl? I am planning a trip from August 31 to September 10 to Kiev. Yes, it will be my first. I've been to a lot of countries in South America but I thought a change of 'scenery' should be in order. It gets old after a while. I wonder if I can survive without speaking a word in Russian there. I feel uncomfortable thinking about this. I would appreciate any suggestions you and other experienced mongers to Ukraine. A member by the name of 'Me and you' advised me that in order to meet semi-pro or non pro that I'd 'Better your start your search before you go to Kiev' but my question is where do I start? And lastly if any of you will be in Kiev around about the same time as my trip, please PM me. The first round of beers is on me. Or even the second round. LOL.

Good days gents.

EZHey Ezyngo,

I went to Kiev for the first time last summer and like you I was a bit nervous going. Don't worry about not speaking Russian; yes, it would help but it is not at all imperative. I got by well without it. Ukrainians are not like Parisians; Ukrainians will politely apologize to you for not speaking English better whereas the French will just continue speaking French obtusely. As for getting around the city, without the help of a woman I met online it would have been very difficult. She was terrific. She met me at my flat when I arrived and showed me around the city. She helped with anything I need as I was not trying to stick my manhood in her at every chance. At first I was nervous and not at all impressed by Kiev but after a week it grew on me. However, the shock of being in such a different city compared to the comfort of the west was lessened as I once lived and worked in Budapest, Hungary. I liked Kiev so much I decided to stay a month and was upset when it was time to go back to Canada.

The person who suggested you start trying to find a woman online was correct. However, you can meet women for sex in clubs or strip joints. What you need is a friend. Someone to show you the city. My suggestion is to join a few websites and pretend you are going to Kiev to find your true love and not sex. Be a gentleman and not a creep. It worked wonders for me. Now I know a dozen women in Kiev and got four Christmas cards from the Ukraine last December. Maybe you will find a sex partner online, sure. I say it is quite easy. But you need to meet a regular Ukrainian woman who is interested in your friendship and not your money. Well, not immediately, anyway. They are valuable as they will give you objective advice and guidance. And who would you rather spend your time with: one of us guys or a nice Ukrainain woman? . Once you know your way around you'll be golden!

Its too bad you are leaving on September 10. I am considering a return trip to Kiev on September 12 to October 25. But if you have any questions please feel free to ask. I might be able to guide you as I know the position you are facing.

[Ezyngo]

Hey Ezyngo,

What you need is a friend. Someone to show you the city. My suggestion is to join a few websites and pretend you are going to Kiev to find your true love and not sex.Hi CanadianBoy:

Thank you for your insightful response / comment. This is exactly the rout I would like to go. But there are hundreds of websites out there for this purpose. I am not sure which one is respectable. Can you suggest a few for me? Or your personal favorite? I appreciate all the help I can get.


Its too bad you are leaving on September 10. I am considering a return trip to Kiev on September 12 to October 25. But if you have any questions please feel free to ask. I might be able to guide you as I know the position you are facing.I am considering changing my travel plan so it somewhat coincides with yours. But I will see what kind of response I get from others as far as getting together for a beer or two.

Thanks again.

Good days.

EZ

[CheekyDancer]

Hello, People,

I am a bit of a newbie to all this and have been chatting with a few girls on Mamba as I am planning a trip to Kiev in August. Could someone explain what a Sponsor is and what sort of prices you would typically pay a girl to sponsor her. Is it a monthly rate you pay her, a weekly rate you pay while you are with her. How exactly does it work. Thanks in advance.

[Guntherus]

You don't need an explanation or answere, you need to read what already has been explained here time and time again.

You could begin with "General Information" in the Ukrainian Forum.

Then there is some serious advice in "Reports of distinction"-section.

Again, you can try the search-function (search this forum).

But for this you need to upgrade and pay the fee. But this is probably what you don't want to do. You want everything from others and no contribution from you.

Show some respect.


Hello, People,

I am a bit of a newbie to all this and have been chatting with a few girls on Mamba as I am planning a trip to Kiev in August. Could someone explain what a Sponsor is and what sort of prices you would typically pay a girl to sponsor her. Is it a monthly rate you pay her, a weekly rate you pay while you are with her. How exactly does it work. Thanks in advance.

[CheekyDancer]

You don't need an explanation or answere, you need to read what already has been explained here time and time again.

You could begin with "General Information" in the Ukrainian Forum.

Then there is some serious advice in "Reports of distinction"-section.

Again, you can try the search-function (search this forum).

But for this you need to upgrade and pay the fee. But this is probably what you don't want to do. You want everything from others and no contribution from you.

Show some respect.Thank you for your advice, harsh as it was. I paid the subscription some time ago and tried the search function which didn't really answer my question. So I asked. Don't just assume I am a selfish idiot. Show some respect to new people and it will help the forum bring in new paying members. A little help never cost anything especially from senior members. It is a community after all.

[Ezyngo]

Thank you for your advice, harsh as it was. I paid the subscription some time ago and tried the search function which didn't really answer my question. So I asked. Don't just assume I am a selfish idiot. Show some respect to new people and it will help the forum bring in new paying members. A little help never cost anything especially from senior members. It is a community after all.That's harshness is the norm for forum like this which should not be the case. The veterans are always rough to newbies. I was one before not long ago, actually I am a newbie as far as Ukraine is concerned but a 'proud' veteran in South America. I know how you feel. I will be making my first trip to Kiev soon. Hope eveverything is ok.

Good days gents.

EZ

[Angus Magee]

As a senior member (mostly Berlin & Germany FKK threads) I have seen over the years hundreds of posts from guys looking for information. Often what they ask for is indeed buried in the thread and with a little digging could be found. I personally do not mind a re-cap every once in a while. However, I am much more likely to respond to a question where the poster gives a little indication that he has in fact done some research. So a question that begins with a statement in which the poster states what he has found and how he has understood what he has read is much more likely to get my attention and make me put in the effort. In the end what I am really interested in is coaching newbies who will give back information to the forum, i.e. write a report once they have their experience. The questioner who shows he has done some reading is, in my experience, much more likely to remember to write his report. He has something invested.

And let's face it, posting on the Russian & Ukraine threads is never going to work for you if you have too thin a skin and can't take some heat.

AM

[CheekyDancer]

As a senior member (mostly Berlin & Germany FKK threads) I have seen over the years hundreds of posts from guys looking for information. Often what they ask for is indeed buried in the thread and with a little digging could be found. I personally do not mind a re-cap every once in a while. However, I am much more likely to respond to a question where the poster gives a little indication that he has in fact done some research. So a question that begins with a statement in which the poster states what he has found and how he has understood what he has read is much more likely to get my attention and make me put in the effort. In the end what I am really interested in is coaching newbies who will give back information to the forum, I. E. Write a report once they have their experience. The questioner who shows he has done some reading is, in my experience, much more likely to remember to write his report. He has something invested.

And let's face it, posting on the Russian & Ukraine threads is never going to work for you if you have too thin a skin and can't take some heat.

AMFair comments. I will make sure I make my posts after my trip. I am quite looking forwards to sharing my exploits after reading about all the fun everyone else has had in here. As I say I am new to the game and all help is welcome. I think I'm going to like this Mongering business.

[GreyGoose69]

I've been to Kiev months ago and I really enjoyed the city. I was there only for a week-end so I went out a couple of nights. I had the chance to go to Rio and D-Lux. Beautiful girls at both clubs. I didn't know this forum and I had no idea how to recognize the WGs, plus I didn't know the price range.

My first night out was at Rio. I saw many beautiful girls (8s) and a couple of 9s. I finally manage to talk to one of the 9s and ask her for a dance. She was gorgeous but the dance was not so hot, pretty lame. I've asked another girl, sexy looks but not as hot, to dance and she gave me one of the best dance I've ever had, DFK included. Here's the thing, I decided to ask the gorgeous one to come with me at my hotel room. She said yes but she was asking for 300 euros. 3hour date. I tried to negociate but I didn't succeed. So I said to myself, I'm horny, she's hot, I have money so let's go. I went out with her at my place because of her looks. No surprise, her service was so-so, CBJ, no DFK but her body was amazing though. Maybe I should have picked the other girl, for 300$ I'm sure that her service would have been better. But again, I prefer looks to service.

On my second night, I went to D-lux at about 2am. I was dancing with girls, flirting, having fun until I realize that I was drunk and that my friends were gone. It was 5am so I decided to look around for WGs. It was way too late and the most beautiful girls were gone. So I went back to my hotel room alone but still I had a good time, the club was nice.

So, now that I know this forum, I've red many threads and I'll go back to Kiev in September. But before, I have questions for the veterans.

- When it's the best time to visit Kiev? Early September or late September?

- What days of the week are best to see gorgeous girls at Rio? Beginning of the week (Sunday to Wednesday) or week-ends?

- Since I prefer looks to service, where can I find the most beautiful girls in Kiev? Which nightclubs, strip-clubs, website?

- How much would a beautiful girl ask for a week-end date?

- I may go to Frankfurt FKKs after or before Kiev, which one between Palace, World and Oase have the most beautiful girls? What days of the week is best to go to FKKs to meet the most gorgeous girls? Is it worth the visit or should I stay in Kiev for a week?

Thanks

[GreyGoose69]

I've been to Kiev months ago and I really enjoyed the city. I was there only for a week-end so I went out a couple of nights. I had the chance to go to Rio and D-Lux. Beautiful girls at both clubs. I didn't know this forum and I had no idea how to recognize the WGs, plus I didn't know the price range.

My first night out was at Rio. I saw many beautiful girls (8s) and a couple of 9s. I finally manage to talk to one of the 9s and ask her for a dance. She was gorgeous but the dance was not so hot, pretty lame. I've asked another girl, sexy looks but not as hot, to dance and she gave me one of the best dance I've ever had, DFK included. Here's the thing, I decided to ask the gorgeous one to come with me at my hotel room. She said yes but she was asking for 300 euros. 3hour date. I tried to negociate but I didn't succeed. So I said to myself, I'm horny, she's hot, I have money so let's go. I went out with her at my place because of her looks. No surprise, her service was so-so, CBJ, no DFK but her body was amazing though. Maybe I should have picked the other girl, for 300$ I'm sure that her service would have been better. But again, I prefer looks to service.

On my second night, I went to D-lux at about 2am. I was dancing with girls, flirting, having fun until I realize that I was drunk and that my friends were gone. It was 5am so I decided to look around for WGs. It was way too late and the most beautiful girls were gone. So I went back to my hotel room alone but still I had a good time, the club was nice.

So, now that I know this forum, I've red many threads and I'll go back to Kiev in September. But before, I have questions for the veterans.

- When it's the best time to visit Kiev? Early September or late September?

- What days of the week are best to see gorgeous girls at Rio? Beginning of the week (Sunday to Wednesday) or week-ends?

- Since I prefer looks to service, where can I find the most beautiful girls in Kiev? Which nightclubs, strip-clubs, website?

- How much would a beautiful girl ask for a week-end date?

- I may go to Frankfurt FKKs after or before Kiev, which one between Palace, World and Oase have the most beautiful girls? What days of the week is best to go to FKKs to meet the most gorgeous girls? Is it worth the visit or should I stay in Kiev for a week?

Thanks.

GG

[Stefan66]

Hi! Was in Kiev that period and here is some fresh info. DON'T yous the web its only FAKE.

Rio strip club is safe and the girls to take out of the club for 1h is 300$ you now what you get. Have triad to Young blond Kristina is real nice Have phone nr,

To pick upp girls in clubs cost from 100-500$ its depends Howe you treat the girl or if they like you not al are full time hookers

Arena 3 fl girls from 5/6 pm til 11 then they move to other places.

Carriben Club its ok and known for the girls!

Budda bar exclusive.

Vodka bar its on the way between Arena and Budda.

Avalon was closed for renovation when ai was there.

Don't remember the name of the club next to football stadium the say that's the best one.

The girls you See is likely prostituted the al say that you can pick up office girls after work ask them if speak good English is it likely.

If you get contact with staff in clubs bars ask for phone nr Meany take that for extra money.

Have phone nr to girls in Kiev and some other contacts, going back in end September.

[Epicurus]

Just back to Kiev from Maldives where I stayed for a week with a girl I met in Kiev. I paid for the entire cost of the trip, but she is a regular girl, meaning I did not pay her. I have to say it was a blast for me in the late 40s to make love to a beauty 25 year junior everyday in a water bungalow. Not possible in the USA unless you're a movie star.

So, who's in Kiev now? I will be here until August 4th. Let's hit Rio together or something. Please send me a PM. Thanks.I am in Kiev at the moment, was in avalon yesterday. Not that many people.

[Member #4274]

Hi CanadianBoy:

Thank you for your insightful response / comment. This is exactly the rout I would like to go. But there are hundreds of websites out there for this purpose. I am not sure which one is respectable. Can you suggest a few for me? Or your personal favorite? I appreciate all the help I can get.

I am considering changing my travel plan so it somewhat coincides with yours. But I will see what kind of response I get from others as far as getting together for a beer or two.

Thanks again.

Good days.

EZEZ.

As I stated in my previous response, I have been in your position and I know what you are facing. However, you are only spending 10 days in Kiev and I spent 30 days there last summer. The tools and techniques I used to be successful at meeting women will not apply to you for the most past as your stay is rather brief. In other words, I don't think spending a lot of time on websites is necessary. Really, you only need to meet one person to show you the city. You can find sex in clubs and strip joints. If you want to try your hand at a non-pro or freebie (as is my preference) it might be somewhat difficult given the short nature of your visit. If you do decide to join a few websites and roll the dice I am only willing to divulge this advice: look back at the pages of threads and read what sites other have tried. Its free info. I will say this – some of the sites others have mentioned are good however, I use a few sites that treated me well in Kiev last summer and I have never seen them mentioned once on here. I also know someone just posted a thread that mentioned why someone shouldn't join websites as the profiles are all ' fake'. This is not true at all and I can back it up considerably. Dating and friendship websites are very useful too to someone who has personality, character and is not a sex-crazed creep. Sure, there are many fake profiles but once you get some experience using these sites they are quickly spotted.

While I am not willing to offer the names of sites to use, I am willing to 'help a brotha out'. I find the arrogant tone of some 'veteran' users towards new members on this site rather boorish, so I will cut you some slack. I know a nice, educated and English speaking Ukrainian woman in Kiev who would probably be more than happy to show you her city. I met her on a dating website and have kept a careful correspondence with her. She is by no means a 'knock out' – I would rate her a 5 or 6 but I'm rather selective. To be honest I wasn't going to meet her during my upcoming trip so I am more than willing to pass her off. While she isn't a 'looker', she is sweet, friendly and helpful. If you're interested send me a PM and I can get into more details. I am trying to procure a little good karma before my trip.

[Sorbonne]

I am in Kiev at the moment, was in avalon yesterday. Not that many people.Epicurus,

Please PM me.

Click my name and click Private Message.

[Jony B]

Rio strip club is safe and the girls to take out of the club for 1h is 300$ you now what you get.

Is that correct?

In this thread, it was described as 300$ for 3h.

[Curious12]

Rio strip club is safe and the girls to take out of the club for 1h is 300$ you now what you get.

Is that correct?

In this thread, it was described as 300$ for 3h.$300 for 3 hours.

[Epicurus]

Epicurus,

Please PM me.

Click my name and click Private Message.Not a member and I lost my wallet, cannot use credit card, got it all blocked. Fotunately a friend of mine was able to send me money. Got eur 500 to last me till Tuesday, but meeting with freebies tomorrow and Monday. Staying at an apartment near Rio and avalon actually. Maybe we can meet or I can post the number of my temporary kievstar sim card?

[CheekyDancer]

Hi Everyone,

I have had a good read through the threads and there seems to be a lot of debate on which is the most reliable website for escort girls. I wondered if anyone had recently been over to Kiev and used any of these escort website with good results. I read about vodka escorts but the site looks to me like the girls are massively photo shopped. I do not understand why they do this as it spoils the picture painted in a guys head when the girl turns up with a spotty face and a chubby arse. As punters I feel we should unite against this and advise good trusted websites to go easy on the photo shopping. What say you all.

[Sorbonne]

Epicurus,

Sorry for your trouble...

You can use Private Message with your regular member status, I believe.

[Random One1]

Hi all,

I want to visit Kiev for 1 week in Mid-August. Thoughts on the timing and the duration of the trip?

I don't speak Russian or Ukrainian so anticipate some troubles. So would welcome any tips.

Thanks

[Member #4274]

Hello!

I have noticed on not a few threads posted on these boards that the time and effort spent on attempting to meet a woman from a foreign country on dating or friendship websites is often wasted and futile. That one can expect most profiles to be either fake or the pictures to be airbrushed to such an extent that one is left unsure about the actual appearance of the woman. To all of this I have a few thoughts and opinions based on actual experiences in my time living in Budapest, Hungary plus meeting women in person from Russia and Ukraine. To be clear, I am not speaking about hiring a prostitute but chasing and bedding a non-pro or 'freebie' as this is my personal preference. While finding a woman in Russia and Ukraine to have sex with for money is far from complicated (and interesting) , I much prefer the challenge of finding and sleeping with women who would never in a life time consider accepting money for sex. To me, this chase is most intruiging.

First of all, I firmly believe that dating websites are a valuable tool to 'mongering'. If one's intent is to travel abroad for an extended period of time than surely the opportunity to meet and date foreign women from an Eastern European country is not only possible but probable. There are plenty of women in both Russia and Ukraine who are tired of the drunken, dishonest and indifferent nature of men from their native land insomuch they are ardently looking for a man from the West to appreciate what they have to offer. They are there one only has to identify them and begin the process of courting them, if you will.

Now of course the first step is to pretend you are looking for love and a serious relationship. 90 percent of women on these sites are not escorts or prostitutes and are sincerely hoping to fall in love and start a family. It does depend upon which website you use but for the most part this is true. As for fake profiles or 'scammers', as they are better known for, they are everywhere. What a scammer actually is might be too complicated for me to touch upon here but there are countless websites dedicated to identifying and fighting them. However, one must be aware that there are those posting profiles pretending to be women with the intent of propositioning one to send them money. Trust me, no decent Russian or Ukrainian woman would ever ask you for money over the internet. They are too modest and too proud.

It's true not every woman one comes into contact with is going to want to meet or date you. In my experience, if one joins a website and finds three women you are not only attracted to but wish to meet you in return than that is a complete success. Whatever money you spent was well worth it. How you can achieve this success takes trial and error, of course. However, I believe there are a few points to follow:

1. Always be positive in your communication: life is great; you are happy; the world is a wonderful place.

2. Ask about their jobs and families.

3. Be genuinely interested in their culture and country.

4. If possible, do not say you are going to their country for a vacation. Rather claim it is for business reasons. To most Eastern European women vacations to their country means sex tourist.

This is a great start and will no doubt get you a few responses. What you do from there is a matter of personality and ability.

One will notice that pictures attached to profiles of some women will appear airbrushed or unnatural. My suggestion is to ignore those profiles. No real Russian or Ukrainian woman has the inclination to go to such an extent. Only someone who is trying to fool you would go to such lengths. My advice is to use your common sense and judgement. If you don't posses either of those then God help you! However, don't let this discourage you. Within these thick layers of imposters are real women looking for you (or the idea of you) and wanting to escape their current predicament.

As I said earlier, you are not always going to be successful for a variety of reasons. That fact must be accepted. Some women are looking for something that you do not possess for whatever reason. However, you can often turn lead into gold with some careful work. Never burn bridges and that topic will be the subject of my next post.

[Prosal]

now of course the first step is to pretend you are looking for love and a serious relationship. 90 percent of women on these sites are sincerely hoping to fall in love and start a family.don't know if you are refering to mamba, but if you do, you're totally wrong. not every girl is looking for love and long-term relationships. in fact, i guess it's a minority. casual sex is common. you obviously forget the russian mentality. russian women are very emotional and passionate, but they also want to live life at its fullest. they are wild. they want wild action. they want to be seduced and charmed, but also dominated and defiled. they don't need a therapetic assistant, a bashful lover or a foreigner to marry and get out of the country. they want someone witty, fun, mischevious, intelligent, sensible and exciting to have a hot adventure with.

anyway pretending that you are looking for love and a serious relationship if your goal is serial dating during your two weeks sex-holidays is bound to lead to huge disappointment for the girls who would beleive you, which is extremely unfair. anyway most girls are not naive and they know the deal. they know exactly what they are getting into when dating and / or fucking foreigners.

[Prosal]

There are plenty of women in both Russia and Ukraine who are tired of the drunken, dishonest and indifferent nature of men from their native land insomuch they are ardently looking for a man from the West to appreciate what they have to offer.By the way, still about the Russian mentality. It is important to change your frame of mind when dealing with Russian girls. The most notoriously ineffective tactic with FSU women is "Mr Nice Guy".

Of course, concepts like respect, charm, empathy, witt, humour, intelligence, sensitivity, etc, come to mind when dealing with them, but you have to add the "local" aspects that the Russian female likes and respects, which is being direct, manly, uncompromising, mischevious and even bad sometimes. Of course, you still can have a wonderful time with a Russian woman even you don't behave like a (nice) brute, but she will never really respect you if you don't. That is why Russian women are much more attracted to masculine, sort of "bad boy" looking guys.

[Sorbonne]

By the way, still about the Russian mentality. It is important to change your frame of mind when dealing with Russian girls. The most notoriously ineffective tactic with FSU women is "Mr Nice Guy".

Of course, concepts like respect, charm, empathy, witt, humour, intelligence, sensitivity, etc, come to mind when dealing with them, but you have to add the "local" aspects that the Russian female likes and respects, which is being direct, manly, uncompromising, mischevious and even bad sometimes. Of course, you still can have a wonderful time with a Russian woman even you don't behave like a (nice) brute, but she will never really respect you if you don't. That is why Russian women are much more attracted to masculine, sort of "bad boy" looking guys.Having spent a week in Maldives with a Ukrainian girl, even though we didn't know each other too well before we went there, I am pretty puzzled in respect to what she really wanted. Even though I like to think that this girl (with higher degrees) is more intelligent than most other Ukrainian girls and therefore is different from most other girls, a lot of what Prosal says here seem to apply even to her. I started making speculations about what she wanted, and Prosal seems to confirm my speculation.

I am still hanging with her in Kiev after we came back from Maldives, so I hope to learn more from her what Slavic women want.

[Member #4178]

I am in Kiev now staying in apprtment, came with 25 contacts from paid dating site.

As soon as I told them I am here, none of them came.

Two of them ask for taxi money to get to my place. I said no.

Its a good city for shopping, thats it.

Same cupidwebsite served me well in africa, but not here.

I pay 60 us dollar for nice appartment on maydan squre.

Jp

[Prosal]

I am still hanging with her in Kiev after we came back from Maldives, so I hope to learn more from her what Slavic women want.Personaly I find Latinas or Asians rather predictable and boring. Slavic women are fundamentally different. Dealing with a Russian (or Ukrainian for that matter) woman is one hell of a ride, but when she has decided that she will be all "yours", you have the time of your life.

[Ezyngo]

Slavic women are fundamentally different. Dealing with a Russian (or Ukrainian for that matter) woman is one hell of a rideCan you please elaborate on this? More details please! I need to pack myself tons in info before my 1st trip to Ukriane.

Thank you.

EZ

[Guntherus]

.

Same cupidwebsite served me well in africa, but not here.

I pay 60 us dollar for nice appartment on maydan squre.

JpHi. To help you out maybe some short advice. It's not very likely the same website will do good service on two different continents. While it is also my experience that some contacts get cold feet and won't show upp or answere, the majority was OK when using websites like Flirt, Mama, Love and Romance Russ. If paying member on these sites you can use search function and exclude those not looking for sponsors or paid sex. Even those not mentioning this still will accept a date when asked. Then you can go to Rio and probably other clubs to meet girls, find a English-speaking (sort of) taxi driver, or go outside MacDonalds at Maidan, with good looks you can approach nice girls in the stores. Good luck, happy ending for you

[HunterDave]

Another great time in Kiev, the weather was a bit warm but I had reserved apartments with a / see and the pre-planned line-up of cuties to meet plus the joy of seeing the many hotties on the street in their tiny little (sometimes sheer) summer dresses with only that on and those thong undies brought nothing but a smile and a nice 'monger ear-to-ear grin' to my face. Some of them were jaw-dropping! And believe me they know how to shake that booty and get us all to watch and dream and get hard! I may more detailed and graphic than some may want here, if so, please bypass my posts.

Day 1 'Blonde Monday'

Arrived late afternoon, passed thru Customs very easily, driver waiting to drive me to UA Apartments. Checked in quickly to the first of 2 apartments for the week on Baseina. Nice place, but way too much of the color RED for me, couch, chairs and curtains. Looked a bit too MOD or like a cheesy brothel for me! Added some money to the phone, cashed in some dollars for grivna, hit Friday's for a beer and pizza and proceeded to send out about 40+ SMS's to let my probable list of hotties know that I had made it to Kiev again and hoped to 'meet' them while I was in town for business! Here is where my 'homework' on Mamba paid off. Even though these hotties will tell you they want to meet with you, coordinating theirs and my schedules is a moving target and while some may have said yes to a meeting online, things happen once you are on the ground. You must transition from 'strategic' (online messaging) planning to 'operational or tactical 'planning, ready to change course and plan based on the current situation on the ground (you need a Plan A, B, C and maybe D). Flexibility is the key, much like the way you want that hottie to be very flexible in the sack! Hence the many SMS' to many to help lock them in to maximize my limited time in Kiev. The best LAID plans never happen per the script, time to improvise to improve your percentage of 'strange' while in town. I then hit the grocery store for basics and then headed back to my apartment. I had 2 lined up for my first night. First was a 20 year old blonde university student. We had hoped to link up back in December but the weather got in the way (missed my Paris connection and was weathered in in Vienna). She was a bit late (arrived about 7:30) since she had classes late afternoon. She was a tall, slender blue-eyed hottie about 172cm with a nice A+ rack. We had a little wine to get to know each other, then she showered, came out wearing nothing but a towel (very nice) and we proceeded to the small bedroom. It had a king bed, but hardly any other room to walk around in. Her name was Liza and she had that nice length of blonde hair, just past her shoulders and smelled very nice. She was a great one to christen the apartment. Nice DFKing. She gave a very nice BBBJ, oral skills were very good, and she liked to swallow all of me. She went crazy when I gave her oral. I stayed there longer to really get her warmed up and wet. She was 'champing at the bit' in anticipation. Liza was the type of hottie that appreciated the time and care I was giving her foreplay before the 'main act. ' This one was hot and more than ready when I took her in missionary. Nice and slow and then had her on a roll, nice and deep. Rode her hard with those ankles up high. She wanted cowgirl and reverse cowgirl where she could really go to town. Had a great ride in doggie and finished with her pinned to the mattress. A nice time to try out that king size bed with this little hottie. I her into giving me a nice little massage. Then both of us off to the shower. Gave her 500 grivna + 50 for taxi.

Blonde #2. She had just graduated and was 'searching' for a job. While she looked for daytime employment, I guess I was going to be her employer for the evening! We had been talking on Mamba for over a month and we agreed we would meet when I returned and that after all the negotiating, she would stay with me my first night in Kiev. When I went down to pick her up at the cab, this hot blonde in a tight fitting blue dress (dressed to kill-like so many of these Kiev hotties) stepped out onto the street. I just love those form fitting dresses. Her name was Helen, a blue-eyed blonde, about 170 cm, wearing those killer high heels, very nice. Since we were going to be with each other the rest of the night till 6 AM, we sat and talked enjoying some wine, taking a few fotos (to be posted). She then went to shower, came out wearing that nice small towel. She asked for her 'present' and I told her later. She said now so I negotiated part up front with the rest upon leaving. She said ok and off to the king bed we went. Nice DFK kisser. She had a hot little body. She balked at a BBBJ, said only covered, I let her slide for then. I then went down on her and spent a good amount of time giving her oral and getting her in the right mood. When she began moaning (Houston we have a moaner here!) and pulling for me to make love to her, I then stood up in the bed and proceeded to have her perform BBBJ. She was so hot and horny she jumped at my cock and gave a very nice BBBJ. My how things can change if they are prepped right. Now we were on a roll. She seemed to like missionary a lot but when I let her ride cowgirl on top then she went nuts! Nice doggie finish. Then she gave me a pretty decent amateur massage (I always bring a few of those little hotel lotion bottles for them to use). I make sure they know they will have to give several massages thru the night when I negotiate price, services and time with me. Got a SMS from Irish Lad to meet him at Shooters that night, but hell I was tired and did not want to leave that bed with this hot little blonde to play with. I asked Irish for a rain check.

We had several nice rounds of sex and around 4 AM she said if I was tired and wanted to go to sleep that she would leave then. Seems she like to end up in her bed in the morning. I was very tired since it had been nearly 2 days since I had slept, so I said ok, but that I would short her $25 for leaving early. She agreed, we showered together, I gave her the rest of the money and she left. She SMS 'the me a few more time during the rest of the week to meet but I had other 'strange' to chase and hunt that week to keep me company.

Live long and monger!

Hunter Dave

[HunterDave]

I crashed hard till 10 but knew I had a university hottie coming in a few hours so I wanted to confirm it and also confirm the rest of the day's line-up. I had plans to meet and hopefully 'pursue' and shag up to 4 that day. The first 2 were to be p4p so as long as they showed up and were what I expected to see when I went down to meet them on the 'strauss' they would be gladly greeted and enjoyed. I try to stagger them by at least 3 hours to allow for traffic and other normal delays. I tell them up front that my schedule is tight and that I have many other business meetings to attend so they need to be on time! I am willing to excuse up to 30 minutes, but tell them they need to treat our time which was agreed upon as a business deal. Some just don't give a crap. If they don't believe me, I tell them it is too late and that I am off to a meeting and 'Rolex' their asses. Some don't care, others apologize and ask for a re-do to re-schedule a meeting time. When they ask for a re-do, you now have the power to re-negotiate the price, amount of time, services, etc. They expect and want you to negotiate and haggle with them. Remember it is a service, supply and demand. They have what you are looking for and you have what they want ($$, job, travel, shopping, relationship, companionship, dinner, dancing, etc.) or just someone to be with. My time is too short in Kiev for them to waste my precious monger time!

My day 2's are normally my surge days to get that 'horny' appetite placated (that burning desire to get to Kiev and partake in my perceived 'fountain of youth') to get me somewhat subdued so I can move to a more 'steady state' of mongering. Trying to bed 4 hotties in a day starting around noon is a great challenge but can be quite a logistics drill. But 'drill and drill' I must! Impressing upon them to hold to an agreed upon time. Hoping traffic does not screw up one's time table and of course getting ones money's worth. All in a mongerer's day's work, but truly worth the effort and energy! It is like running the gauntlet!

The first p4p showed only a few minutes late. Guess the traffic around lunch was ok. She was about 170cm. 52 kilos. 19 year old brunette with nice blue eyes. I love that look. Did not speak much English but passable. Gave her some juice, showed her the bathroom and off she went along with the clothes – didn't even ask for her money. She had a nice B rack. Decent kisser, pretty good BBBJ and liked to swallow all of me. Good skills in bed, loved it when I pinned her legs open and rode her hard. Another lover of doggie and 'modified doggie. ' She gave a decent massage and used her full body during the massage. She showered and I gave her 500 grivna. Spanked that ass hard and we both enjoyed it!

#2 was also a 21 year old university student, Natasha, a brunette, about 170 cm and a nice tight little body with nice blue eyes. This one was excited about the a / see and it clearly put her in a good mood. She showed right at 3:00 and wanted a little wine. She said she would be graduating soon and was looking for a job. She was doing this for rent money. She was a very good DFKer and then moved out to shower. This one had a nice tight little sexy body. Nice set of A+s. Nice BBBJ and not shy to take all of me in. Great round of sex. While she enjoyed many positions, she was superb in doggie. Enjoyed getting that ass slapped! Gave a decent massage and very nice pillow talk; nice gentle massage. I would gladly bring her back for a repeat performance. Paid her 700 grivna, kissed her at the door and bid her farewell. She said she wanted to come back later that week. Not enough time with many other still in the queue.

My next (third brunette) , Lena, was to be a meet and just greet 18 year old 'freebie' university student. Wasn't sure how things would go since we had talked for about a month on Mamba. I was to meet her at Arena City Bar at 7 PM. Got a SMS from The Knight (who was in town for 'business') and turns out he was one street over having a drink and food with his one of his girlfriends. He invited me over for a beer so I jumped into the shower and headed over to meet him for a drink. Had a few beers catching up and meeting his girlfriend. Very nice young lady. Then I headed over to Arena Bar to meet my potential 'freebie. ' She was a dark haired brunette, with gorgeous blue eyes, about 165cm and a cute little 'bubble butt' in tight fitting pants, very nice! She spoke decent English. We ordered drinks and then a small plate of sushi for an appetizer. She wanted to know about me. Blah, blah, blah. She was a first year University student from out of town. She lived with 2 other roommates in a hostel, blah, blah, blah. She said she liked to party and loved her mojitos. I asked her she would like to do next, maybe go for a walk down K St, or maybe go back to my apartment where I had some wine and vodka. I wasn't sure where things might go with this one and I had another University student coming later (after 10 PM) that night coming to stay with me all night. Lena said a quick glass of wine would be nice but that she wasn't sure if she could go to my place since she needed catch the metro to be back at the hostel before 11 PM. Being the 'nice guy' and the true gentleman that I am (.) , I offered to pay for a taxi to get her back before 11 if she wanted to come over to my place. She said ok and off to my apartment on Baseina we went. We had a small glass of wine. She seemed a bit nervous and wanted to have a smoke out on the porch. When she came back I asked her if she wanted to do something else. I showed her my bedroom and asked if she wanted to go in. She hesitated a bit; I told her we should go on in. I asked her if she liked to give massages. She waited a moment and then said ok but just kissing and to give me a massage. I said that I would love a massage and I stripped down to my boxers while she looked on. After a light massage I was able to get her ready by lightly kissing and touching that hot little bod. She was a great DFKer and really got into it! She had a nice looking rack, I judged them to be nice Bs. I wanted to get my hands and my mouth on those yams. Time to release those twins! I got her bra unhooked in a flash and the top off in no time. Those nipples became rock hard! I gave my attention to those perky Bs. She was just loving the kissing and light sucking and grabbing those yams. She was one of those light passionate moaners. Very nice. Lying on top of this hottie just lightly grinding between her hips and then moving my hands up and down her pelvic region really got her going. When I got my hand in her pants, nice and slowly grabbing those pert little ass cheeks she was devouring my tongue while DFKing her. When I got my hand up front inside her pants and touched her panties, she was almost dripping wet. A light massage to keep arousing her clit and then a chance to finger her lightly, first one finger, then 2, then a third. She was now raring to go! When I then moved to start removing her tight fitting pants she pulled away. Then after more clit massaging and fingering I tried again to slip her pants off. This time she assisted by lifting her hips up off the bed to allow the pants to just slide off, very nice. After kissing her hot little body all over I then moved my attention to the panties, lightly kissing her to further arouse her thru her panties. She was super-hot now. Then off came the thong panties. Very wet. I then gave her a great DATY and proceeded to make her go nuts and she kept grabbing my arms and wanting to pull me up to her mouth. She was more than ready. She kept pulling at my boxers trying to pull them off. I kept resisting keeping her crazy and begging. Then after pleasing her I then had her give me a great BBBJ. She would have done anything to get her hands on my cock. She eagerly grabbed to pull off my boxers and get her hands on my dick. For a hottie so young she gave a very good BBBJ. I made her work hard and to take it all in. I knelt there and just held her hair back as she gorged herself on my cock. Gobble, gobble, gobble! I teased and stroked her pussy while she enjoyed sucking and licking me. Finally I rolled her over and had her missionary after donning a raincoat. She wanted to get it on, but I slowly entered her to have her further go crazy while I teased her with my tip. She loved the teasing and then all of me. When I pulled her legs up around my shoulders and then pinned her ankles up around her ears I could tell she had never been penetrated so deeply. She initially showed that bit of pain look on her face and then pure enjoyment. Like that good gymnast, I had 'nailed' my landing! She loved cowgirl and reverse cowgirl (her first time-it is so nice to coach and teach these young hotties) and I got to go to town on her in doggie and when I pinned her to the bed in modified doggie. A great freebie lay followed by a nice massage, I guess her way of thanking me for the great round of sex. She cleaned up and she called for a taxi to get her back to the hostel. If I had not already lined up another hottie coming over within the hour I would have asked this one to have stayed with me for the night. I gave her a few hundred grivna for the taxi, gave her a big hug and kiss and walked her to the elevator. A very nice round of sex. I SMS'the #4 to confirm her arrival time and jumped in the shower.

My 4th brunette, Julia, about 172 cm, is a 3rd year university student whom I met on Mamba. She had said she wanted to meet me when I came to Kiev. When I sent out those SMSs my first night in Kiev, she said yes to Tuesday night and that she wanted to stay with me all night, but that she would have to leave by 9 AM to go her classes. She called me that she was out front and when I opened the door, their standing outside was this long haired hot brunette in a black evening dress. Dressed to kill.

She was ecstatic to see I had a / see in the apartment. She also lives in a hostel with 2 other girls and she says it gets so hot at night and very hard to sleep in the late spring / summer. She said there is not much air movement in the rooms. She said they have a living area and a bedroom (approx. 3x3 m) with 3 beds in the room. Clearly no room or privacy. Julia said it costs her about 600 grivna a month to stay at the hostel. I didn't have the heart to tell her that yes she would get to enjoy the a / see but that she would not be getting much sleep that night either. We had a little wine and just talked to get to know each other. She wanted to check out the apartment so I showed her the bathroom, patio / porch and then the bedroom. She stopped in the door and then we headed in for the night. I had her out of that dress and thong in short order and then got to enjoy and ravish that tall hottie. She was a great kisser and very vocal when I did something to truly please her. She had a great pair of Bs, nice and perky. She gave a great BBBJ and this girl not only swallowed but loved CIM. She slurped and swallowed it all right up. We had 2 great lovemaking sessions over the first few hours. We tried as many positions as we could think of and try. But this girl in cowgirl would ride me all night if she could. Till the 'cows came home. ' I think if she could have she would have ridden me like a wild mustang till all that was left of me would be a few vertebrae and some spinal fluid. She rode me so hard the 2nd round she was chafing my hips. Now I know why cowboys where chaps on the trail! This girl wanted me to cum in her mouth, on her tits, her ass and back or on her belly. She was a wild one! We passed out after round two in each other's arms. After a little rest, she turned around to get me roused with a damn good BBBJ and then proceeded with a good round 3, then back to sleep. If she could have I think she would gladly humped me into a coma.

About 7 AM we were necking and she noticed I had some morning wood, gave me a smile and wink and down she went proceeding to get me even harder. Like I have said before these young Ukrainian hotties are like good carpenters, no wood get wasted! This girl went back to cowgirl and rode to her heart's content. I just loved her long dark hair all over the both of us. To make sure she didn't wear me out I turned her on her side and nailed her, then took her doggie and pinned her to the mattress. She loved me gently pulling on her long hair and some light spanking. This was a great evening of multiple lays. We took a shower together, had a cup of coffee and called for a taxi. I gave her taxi money and a few hundred grivna. We couldn't get a taxi to show by phone so we went down to the street and finally hailed one for her. Gave her a great big kiss and grabbed that ass one more time for good luck. She said she wanted to see me later that week so I told her Friday would be best. Another great night in the sack with 2 for 2 sleep overs. Day 2 was a great success, a nice 4 bagger-shagger! I went back to bed for a few hours of needed rest.

Hunter Dave

[HunterDave]

A few weeks before I arrived in Kiev and was doing my monger prep on Mamba for the trip I got a message from Olya (my 2 day live-in last August). She was back in Ukraine from her job in Cyprus and wanted to say Hello. I told her I would be back in Kiev in a few weeks and she offered to meet me there. Anytime you can get a return engagement with a nice hottie that wants to enjoy your company and share your bed for a lot of sucking and f*cking I am all for it. She caught a 4 hour bus ride and arrived just after 11 AM. We had agreed on 2 full days. Olya is like having a live-in Geisha. She waits on me hand and foot; gives a fantastic professional massage with special oils; gives the best damn BBBJ that I have ever had in Kiev; loves the sex and has multiple orgasms each round of sex; loves to walk around arm in arm wearing those little summer dresses; acts like the money I spend for drinks and dinner would be hers only being very wise with the money; and is a great person to sight see things with and plays a mean game of billiards. She is the quintessential girlfriend while in Kiev. Olya arrived at the Baseina apartment just after 11 AM. My 2nd place would not be ready till 1 PM. She was happy to feel the a / see. She showered and since we had time to kill and clearly she was horny we tried out the bed, first she gave me a great relaxing massage, then she proceeded to give me one of her famous BBBJ. She uses no hands just her lips and tongue to get a rise. She also is also a ball licker and sucker-very nice. She attacks your cock like she is licking an ice cream cone. She is a great sucker and slurps it all up! She could spend long, long minutes (it seems like hours) on my cock. Gives great head! She works to get it so hard and at rigid attention. This girl knows how to move a guy iot the full and upright locked position. Then when ready she wanted to mount me cowgirl, but I stopped her and rolled her over. I gave her a great DATY. Then she was really ready! I teased her with the head, nice and slowly, when I finally gave it to her she went nuts and had a violent orgasm, shaking all over. Nice. She then went cowgirl and went to town. When I mounted her in doggie she had a 2nd orgasm-and this girl quakes and shutters during an orgasm. This really got me going and I nailed her in modified doggie. A great way to start our time together. We cleaned up and then headed over to my 2nd place on Shota Rostevelli. After getting settled we headed out to a sushi place on K St called Eur-Asia. They have a nice lunch special till 3 PM and from 3-6 PM they run a 1+1=1 special. Two people can each have a salad, a sushi plate and a drink and the bill is about 150 grivna. A nice little meal. We went for a nice walk down K St and then back to the apartment for another great massage and another outstanding BBBJ and a great doggie orgasm for her. We cleaned up and then headed out to play billiards. We raised the bar on our bet from last time of extra oral sex for the winner to get extra bonus oral and also as much sex as the winner wanted or could handle. She just laughed since she said that I could have as much oral and sex as I desired. What a gal! I did tell her that she would get extra long oral if she beat me and she smiled. Needless to say I kicked her ass at billiards again. She is so competitive and it is so much fun to play billiards with her and coax her on. She gets easily steamed and loses it abit. She cannot believe it, she taught me how to play (I do know how to play 8 ball very well) and she continues to have her ass handed to her (in more ways than one). And a very nice ass it is! We played, drank beers and ordered a snack called 'dranicki' a potato pancake dish with ground beef cooked into it. It comes with sour cream and add salt and pepper to taste. Very good and I would recommend to all to try it. We played a couple of hours and then headed back to clean up and change to link up with Irish Lad at Arena City Bar. We had a few drinks and then headed to Shooters. Irish had reserved a table and we had a bottle of vodka and red bull. Olya loves to dance and dance. Amazing how these women get a little jealous when another hottie starts scoping out the guy she is with, they get a bit protective. There was a young hot blonde at the bar wearing a pair of super tight leather pants, a little drunk and shaking that bootie. Olya noticed I was checking out that young hottie and her ass and that she was winking my way so Olya got awful damn close to me with her hands all over my leg and crotch. Plus sensually dancing in front of our table between that hottie and my line of sight. I thoroughly enjoyed it, plus dancing with Olya nice and close on the dance floor. To show other women that she was with me that night I think had I shoved her head under the table she would have given me a BBBJ right then and there. I love those hot jealous, possessive women! Her period of staying close to me lasted for a few hours and then she said she was ready to go home for more massage and sex. I readily agreed. Her massage was long and sensual and the sex and BBBJ were mind blowing. We both passed out that night. She got up in AM and jumped on some morning wood. We had morning sex. Twice. She didn't even wake me for the first round. Almost missed it! We showered together.

About a half block down Shota is another Eur-Asia restaurant and they have beaucoup lunch specials. We headed down there for a nice lunch. We had a great time walking down K St and went down to the river by the Arch and enjoyed the afternoon. We headed back to my place since I asked for some of my extra bonus sex and oral. She just smiled and gave a great massage and great oral. I obliged by giving her 2 orgasms. Anything to keep her happy. A mongerer has got to do what he has got to do!

We cleaned up and headed back to the pool hall. Olya said she wanted to kick my ass. We played till very late that night. She sure tried hard but again I totally kicked her ass and that really irked her and made her want to keep playing on. It was total enjoyment. She is quite the competitor. We finally decided to leave and hit that Eur-Asia restaurant on the way back to my place since that particular one stays open till 5 AM. Got some late night sushi and then back for my extra bonus sex presents. She is quite the good sport and gave me one of those to die for BBBJ after a great massage.

She asked if I wanted her to stay another day. I was not sure. I considered the 'bird in the hand' vs the sort of unknown. I had several hotties reply over the last few days saying they wanted to meet me. But I knew what I could / would have with Olya. My problem is that 2 days with a 'girlfriend' seem to be the best amount of time for me in Kiev. When in Kiev with so many hotties walking around I am like that kid who has a nice shiny toy, but when he sees other nice 'strange' shiny toys, he wants them also, even if just to play with them for just a little while. It's like a kid in a candy store and wanting to have a little bit or a lot of all the good candy. When I had Anna last December for 3 days, I found my eyes wandering that much more on Day 3 while I was with her. And even brought by a few others during the day while Anna was out shopping.

Monger on!

Hunter Dave

[HunterDave]

My college hottie from Tuesday night, Julia, had said she wanted to stay with me again that Friday night and that I had a few others wanting to meet Friday afternoon and early evening, so I told Olya I had other business meetings which I had to go to that day. She departed by taxi around 9:30. Sad but the unknown 'strange' was calling me. Way too much 'strange' to be hunted.

I was still getting SMS' returned from the many I sent out the first day I arrived telling me they wanted to meet. I had a good looking 20 year old brunette come by my place for a nice session, she gave a nice BBBJ, very good in bed and a decent long massage (hard to compare to Olya's top-notch massages). Damage was 600 grivna. Cleaned up and met Irish for a drink at Arena City at the outside bar. Very nice. While I was heading over I needed to add some more grivna to my cell so I decided to head down K St for a quick look to see the ladies in their nice summer dresses. I came around the corner and there stood this statuesque light haired brunette in one of those form fitting summer dresses. She had a super hot body and it looked like she was poured into that small piece of cloth. I could not take my eyes off of that body! She noticed and seemed to enjoy the attention. To my surprise after I added the grivna to my cell I met Irish and there in the booth next to us was that hottie with a few friends. We just smiled at each other. She was meeting another guy, that 'lucky bastard! ' However when Irish and I were leaving she did accommodate me with a look up her nice little dress for a beaver and pantie shot! Wish she had been alone! I met with a cute blonde 'potential freebie' (maybe next time) early evening for a drink and appetizer at the Patio restaurant. She spoke excellent English and we had a nice time. She was fun to talk with and hopefully I can further consummate the deal my next visit.

Met Irish and a few of his friends at Arena Bar about 10 PM with plans to hit Shooters later that night. We had a good time at Arena and met a few new friends. I knew I was going to be meeting my college cutie Julia later that evening but thought I would check out Shooters first. While there were hotties to talk with at Shooters I decide another round with Julia at 2 AM at my place was the best game plan. Another great time with her. We started in the Jacuzzi tub and had a nice little bubble bath together with a few candles and some nice wine and a great wet BBBJ. This girl loves to suck. She gives a very nice erotic massage and rub down. She is a true lover of riding cowgirl. And rides so hard that she moves from one orgasm to another. Not much sleep with this wild one in the bed. When she feels wood, she coaxes it on harder. After a small break she keeps grabbing and massaging my cock. She enjoys my cock either in her mouth or deep inside her. We drifted from small naps spooning to sessions of nice sex. Her best could curl your hair and make your ass whistle.) We cleaned up after 9 AM and as she headed to the shower I can still picture in my mindseye those silhouetted nice big lips between those luscious thighs walking away from me. I get hard just re-picturing those lips. After we showered I called her a taxi, gave her a small gift (I try to bring a few nice little things such as a thong or panties from Victoria's Secret-the ladies seem to appreciate the little gifts) and a few hundred grivna for her to buy something. She doesn't expect it but does appreciate the thought or gesture. I like to walk the good ones to their taxis (and I know they appreciate it) and I like to give them a nice big hug and kiss before I help them into the cab. No complaints yet. If you treat them right and they enjoy your company and the time in the sack, they tend to want to come back for a re-do! Treat and respect them, but keep them guessing and yourself a bit of a mystery and intrigue; an enigma.

Between missing Olya's BBBJ, great massages and Julia's nice clit limps I get hard and very sad.

Olya is so good at her BBBJs that I do believe she could make one hard even sucking one thru a garden hose. With her I might have to seriously consider a garden hose exemption with her. When I think about her BBBJ it brings a tear to eye and cock!

Hunter Dave

[HunterDave]

After a night full of good loving I thought I would go to Rakuena and get a good massage. It seems they have moved the salon to just up the hill behind TGI Friday's. Nice new location, nice line-up. I chose a nice light haired brunet with a nice tight little body. I ordered the 90 minute erotic massage and she asked if I wanted 2 happy endings or one. I said we can try 2, but I told her that she would have a hard time just getting me to one happy ending. She took the challenge. She worked her ass off rubbing my cock and her whole hot little body (her ass and clit) over my cock but to no avail. She finally got me to come when she literally gave me a 'titty fuck' nice job and well worth her effort. She gave a great deep tissue massage. That 90 minute massage was well worth it. I have been to Rakuena and she is only the 2nd to use her tits to fuck my cock to orgasm. Very nice!

That afternoon I met another brunette whom I had been talking with on Mamba for the last 4 months who wanted to meet. She worked in Admin in a bank in town. We probably had more than 250 messages back and forth. With that many messages between us we were able to talk about just about everything from erotic massage stimulation to Jacuzzi bubble baths for two to the best lovemaking positions to reach orgasm. Met her at EurAsia down the street from my place for a light lunch and then back at my place. She was a green-grey eyed hottie, about 170 cm. A nice hot little body. I loved undressing her. She had on a nice tight pair of white jeans. She was a great Deep French kisser and gave a very nice BBBJ. A real tigress in bed, loved all positions and a super tight fit. The eagle has landed. Houston we have another moaner! She gave, as promised, a pretty good erotic massage which got me super hard for a nice 2nd round where I got to nail her hard in doggie. She stayed with me for several hours. I had brought her a few trinkets since I had missed her birthday. She gave me a great BBBJ for my birthday present. A damn good trade. I gave her a few hundred to pay for her round trip taxi and walked her to the street. I hope to tap that again next time in Kiev! I cleaned up and decided to get some rest before my planned tall legged brunette Eva showed that evening.

I had planned to meet Eva. 21 year old brunette. 178cm, back in December but got stuck in Vienna due to weather and missed out on her staying the night. So we coordinated to meet and for her to stay with me my last night in Kiev this trip. She had agreed to provide all the services I wanted thru our messages on Mamba. She came over around 8 PM and called me when she arrived out front. I went down to pick her up not always sure what was going to step out of that cab. I was happy to see the face in the Mamba fotos and when she stepped out she was wearing a pair of those skin tight jeans with a great looking ass! We hugged and kissed and headed down to the corner Georgian restaurant for a snack, a Martini for her and a beer for me. We left and went back to my apartment for a nice first round session. She was at first a bit shy and quiet. Once her Martini kicked in she kind of opened up. I just helped her open up a little more. , a very nice spread eagle package! We showered together, some nice DFKing and she gave a very nice BBBJ. She was so tall and slender that making love to this hottie was a lot of fun. She gave a decent massage. I told her we should clean up and head over to Arena Bar to link up with Irish before we decided if we were going to go to Avalon with them for some dancing. We got to Arena and the place was super crowded due to some small concert in the center Arena stage area and many more in the Bar area. Since we could not find a table we waved at Irish and decided to head to Buddha Bar since she had only been there once for her last birthday and wanted to go again. I said sure one drink and then off to Avalon. When we got to Buddha Bar just before midnight the place was about half full and the bar area had many fine looking hotties, many WGs there. We decided to just get a drink at the bar. I did notice about 4 former RP hotties to include 2 of these 4 blonde friends who were RP regulars from my previous visits to RP when it was open. Of the 4 I had nailed 3 of the 4. I had wanted in the old days to nail the 4th one, but she was never available when I showed at RP. That 4th one happened to be one the 2 blonde friends that night. She was dressed to kill with one of the tiny little blouses with a pair of tight blue jeans that looked like they were painted on her and she was weaving to and fro to the music. Nice and super hot! While my brunette friend and I drank I did say Hi to the former RP hotties. I liked they way the swooped in to talk a little to test the waters and see if I might be interested. Like most women, but maybe more so with Ukrainain (or maybe all Slavic women) they are very protective or very possessive of their men and they will defend to protect their investment. It is nice to see, here you are with a p4p hottie and she is defending what she sees as her turf. She got in very close, nibbling my ear, her leg up against my crotch and rubbing over and over. I liked the attention (just like Olya was showing at Shooters a few nights before) Eva was showing. I will say I was tempted and was checking out that 4th RP blonde real hard. I got a lot of winks from her. But Eva quickly gained my full attention. However we did stay for a 2nd drink. Eva then said let's leave and not go to Avalon and go back to my apartment for more sex. I did have to leave early that morning so I said ok to a lot more sex. Guess I was showing some weakness for what I guessed could be some excellent sex! Eva was all over me in the taxi and so I passed on Avalon since I thought I was going to get a BBBJ in that cab. She just played with my cock to get me hard. This girl was only focused on my banger and mash! Hell, I wish all women held their liquor like this Eva. She was a wild women this next round. Anything went and she wanted to have her fotos taken. I will post them soon. This Eva gave me 4 plus hours of hot sex, several good BBBJs, and many positions and a few erotic massages. She rode me cowgirl and reverse cowgirl much of the night. She was so long legged and tight. I loved nailing her with her ankles behind her ears hard, and she loved it. She was a wild one in bed and went just crazy with just a little bit of liquor. Her inhibitions and walls collapsed with just 3 drinks. She was a wild cat in the sack. And when she was leaving all she talked about was the next time I am in town and if she can bring a friend along who also loves sex. I said I need to see her friend's foto before I can agree. She said she was just as hot as she was. Oh boy! I hope she is right! I am so going to hit that stuff. Twice next trip! Remember a man's reach must exceed his grasp, or what is a penis for?

Hunter Dave

[HunterDave]

i like to use the great sales speech alec baldwin gave in the movie glengarry glen ross (

www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-axtx4pcki

) or a spoof of his speech on snl (

http://www.hulu.com/watch/3362/saturday-night-live-glengarry-glen-christmas

) i have adjusted the speech to get my point across. i enjoyed the snl speech best!

'abc. a, always, b, be, c, closing. always be closing. always be closing.

aida. attention. interest. decision. action. attention. do i have her attention? interest. is she interested? i know she is 'cause it's sex or walk. you close the deal or you hit the bricks and back to that mango tree all alone. decision. has she made her decision for christ sake? and action, move out to close the deal! aida.

here is an excerpt of the speech:

'get out there. you got the prospects (hotties) coming to meet you, you think they came in to get out of the rain? a hottie does not walk into your plan lest she wants to buy or get something herself. they're sitting out there waiting to give you themselves. all of it. are you going to take it? are you man enough to take it? '

'go and do likewise. aida. get mad you sons-of-a. get mad. you know what it takes to sell your self? it takes brass balls to sell yourself. go and do likewise, gents. the hot strange's out there, you pick it up, it's yours, you don't, i got no sympathy for you. '

your job in kiev and anywhere else for mongering is abc! always be closing!

these are my random ramblings on how to score 'beaucoup and zwanzig' times in kiev.

to each his own on how to pull the best strange. i prefer sites like mamba rather than hit the strip clubs like many here. it may be more work but i find that when you can pull a freebie for little cost and treat her well that when i get her back to my place the gfe and the sex are off the charts. please her first and you will be rewarded. plus i get to further hone my mongering skills. now don't get me wrong i do miss the old rp. i found that chasing strange thru a few website (mamaba, etc) till 1 am, and then hitting rp was a for sure score with a hottie and a chance to work on my negotiation skills, plus a chance to be pawed and hit on by many of the p4p that night. always a lot of fun!

when doing your prep work. for freebies and non-pros : carry on a conversation. get them to want to be interested in you. leave some mystery; ask questions, build the intrigue, have them want to know more about you, if they are intrigued you will have them asking you for your number, now you have them interested and wanting to meet you. if lining up a p4p, don't just talk, get a price, get a phone number. blah, blah, blah. ask a bunch of questions, tell her what you expect, negotiate the # of hours, what you like bbbj, daty, dfk, cim, cob, cot, (anal) etc. once she tells you a price always negotiate down. if she wants 800, (and you like the foto) offer 600, when she counters back 800 and you still like the foto (and it is not photo shopped or just too hard to believe it is really her) and you want to nail her, offer 700, then if no to 700, then 700 + taxi. push to not pay her price. if you have to go with 800, go for minimum of 2 or more hours. remember, everything is negotiable!

if i like the hottie i tell them i want them all night. sex at my place, then maybe go dancing (does not happen too often since it is hard to leave one's bed with a fine piece of hottie in your bed and having to clean up and dress-many times they just want to stay and just f*ck and suck till the rooster crows) then back to my place for more sex till morning. many will agree. i have had freebies for all night less drinks and taxi costs, and sometimes as low as $125 for a non-pro / p4p for the night and all the sex you will ever want. your goal should be $150 for the night, but do not pay more than $200 (she better be damn hot). if you do pay more than that all you have done is set the rest of us up and raised the price for strange. and for $200 for the night it needs to be 10 hours, and she meets all you service needs ++++! and she better be a hammer in looks, a 9 to 10 in looks!

a hands on approach to higher education. i call it the 'trickle –up approach'. i am a firm believer in higher education and like to contribute to students wanting to improve their education especially those that are working their way thru university studies. while some contribute to the university directly, i believe in a very hands-on approach to education and like to give the money to the students who will to work for their 'rent money' – one sleep over at a time. hence my trickle-up approach! lol!

'bbbj is a 4 letter word! ' sin condom is the only way to go!

baiting the hook. negotiate, haggle, treat them well and they will beg to return, please them in bed and they will beg to return. they are looking for what we are looking for. many just want sex, but expect us to work our way to the 'prize' others will sell it but also expect some negotiations. it is a woman's human nature, they know what we want, (which, deep down they also want it) but they expect some effort on our part to get in their pants. it is a hunt, a game! game on! some are more discrete about their motives, others just want to be wanted and appreciated, to be chased, to be courted before they decide you are the one that gets the prize either that night or another night, or some night. mamba or meeting them on the street, they want to be pursued. on mamba there are many fakes. you must sort thru them – to separate the wheat from the chaff. you need to make yourself interesting, a bit mysterious, something that gives you an edge and them the interest to want to meet you. be aloof, alluring. be an enigma. sure any of us can get a number from a hottie on mamba. but you need to work it, talk about anything, blah, blah, blah, to make them want to meet you. in fact much of the time they ask to meet for a drink rather than me asking them to meet. now they have taken your game or bait. i f they agree to meet you, you now get your chance in the batter's box. now your mongering skills with women needs to blossom. you need to bring you're 'a' game. dressing sharply and like you know something about fashion always helps. (i can remember going to rp and seeing others dressed like crap in t shirts and shorts and saying those duds will probably be headed back empty handed and having to yank it like a monkey up that mango tree and leaving kiev with severe tennis elbow from the numerous strike outs in kiev. (i have even caught crap here about telling other to dress nice and show that they at least appeared to be successful). these hotties are checking you out to see if you can cover their need for the evening or for a much longer period of time-but hell just having a few losers around who do not know how to dress and act around these women, makes my job that much easier!). if you don't have game on your home turf, then you will still have your work cut out for you. but the kiev 'playground' has enough 'toys', for you to practice a lot and to hone your skills to succeed. if they still think you are interesting, then taking them back to your apartment either that night or eventually is now in the cards.

i love that feeling when you first meet a hottie after lining the date up on mamba, a big hug and kiss and thinking to myself. i am so going to hit that!

take your mongering to the next level: stories and lines like.

i told her i was not a gynecologist, but that i had played one once on tv, and would be willing to check her out down there. such a gentlemen!

'given the choice always party with dr. strangelove. '

'permission to come on board. '

this will be a 'heads down operation'.)

they love to shop 'there is a clearance sale and you are the boots! '

time to monger up.

i have never met a woman that did not look good with a set of balls hanging down her chin.)

remember 'if it appears too good to be true it probably is. '

a body in motion tends to stay in motion. don't slow down to rest. you can rest on the flight home!

i see kiev as a buffet or smorgasbord. some may wait in line for that certain piece of prime roast beef or boiled shrimp and bypass the many other great meats or foods available. me i want to try them all!

if you play your game right you have a good chance to be 'circ de so laid. '

it is a game of supply and demand. they have the supply and we are in demand. all that is needed is the negotiation!

sometimes you have to bend over backwards. to get them to bend over backwards. .

that's a pretty mouth, but it's not made for singing.)

kind of nailed it right?

there could be honking car horns and barking dogs over her screams. and it would not help.)

when you meet a hottie you like you need to gently but shrewdly drive a wedge between her and her friends. divide and conquer!

'i totally agree. but our communication here tells me we will be attracted both intellectually and physically to each other. the total package.) '

perfect is the enemy of good, or very good!

while there are many women to meet and that can potentially be had. they are not sitting on every corner waiting for a mongerer to pick them up.

they do not have an email address like 'all aboard natasha@mail.ru'.

reel them in slowly so they never know how close to being in your place they are.

like i have said, a 19-22 year old hottie is like a good carpenter; no wood gets wasted.

does you want to get married or does you want to get laid. grab its pert little ass. you don't want to rub your face in it. you just want others to know where your has been.

when some women say they do not know how we can communicate due to our language barrier. i tell them no problem. we will be 'rutting like pigs and conversation does not matter then. '

when i tell them how much i am going to ravage them. they seem to pay attention.

you must remain a mystery to them, an enigma; intrigue them and they will come.

you want them 'champing at the bit' or i mean your rod!

i am in the upright and locked position!

'please join the hunter dave girl free for all-side effect may include loss of clothing, rug burns, shortness of breath and sore abdominals the next morning. '

live long and monger! stay horny my friends!

'i tend to be sexually compulsive with narcissistic tendencies'

i tell them i am sometimes like a machine fueled by desire, lust and a single hunger to satisfy my every carnal need' are you in?

even when a hottie says she hasn't shaved her legs (thinking if she does not shave she must behave) i say do not worry, a real man will work his way thru the 'rough' just to reach the green!

fyi, guys just want to get on the green and don't mind going thru the rough!

2 hotties offered 'a trip around the world' and i took them up on it since i had enough frequent (monger) flyer miles to cash in many times!

i have a firm rule about married women. if she is firm enough, i will do her.

depending on when i am meeting a 'chesty' hottie, i tell them i suffer from mms. massive mammary syndrome. and some say i have dismissive attitude toward boobs.

'anyone need to earn rent money? '

for every gorgeous woman in this world, there is guy that is tired of having to listen to her blah, blah, blah. just to be able to bang the sh*t out of her.

remember do not get involved in a lot of chit chat unless it will get you laid.

bad kitty, good pussy.

cock-a doodle-do-me!

'for my next trick, i need a condom and a volunteer. '

my personal ad: 'hopeless romantic, seeks filthy working girl. '

bring you're a game. you don't want to get yanked off the mound. better warm up the pitching arm.

fotos. ask for more. if they do not show the whole body, they are usually hiding something.

i told her she had me at 'oral sex'

tell her she is in luck. you are offering free cavity searches.

sometimes i feel like just a piece of meat to be ridden and drained of all bodily fluids and then cast off. for 30 minutes. before the next ride.)

with so many hotties i have taught myself to play thru the pain.

act nonchalant.

they want to be pursued, to be chased.)

plan a, b, c and even d.

i am a reformed working girl monger.

i had to take the moral high ground with nary a p4p or bottle of liquor in sight.

grass is frick'in greener over here.

mindless meat seeking missile that i am.

may the (monger) force be with you! live long and monger!

so many hotties to service and not enough time!

man up dude. get some stones.

shooting fish in a barrel. sometimes you pull in a young one and decide it is best to throw them back out there so they can grow more and develop.

so much good 'hot' stuff to be had, not enough time, not enough night time, even with the best 'laid' plans, you will only put a dent in your desires to nail as much 'strange' as you can get your hands on.

'without trust all we have is sex. '

a man's reach must exceed his grasp, or what is a penis for?

any hotter she would have burned my pubes.

gobbling me up.

i tell them i would like to take this party to a more horizontal location. '

it is a numbers game.

you may need to forgive a woman's small flaws, or when not, enjoy her great qualities and attributes. me i want to hit those attributes over and over!

release the twins!

say whatever it takes to get in her pants.

i am not trying to nail every hottie in ukraine, only those with area codes in the kiev metro area.)

attack, attack, attack, abc.

maneuver, maneuver, envelope. take the initiative.

use you cloaking device. stay in the darkness. you don't want them to know all your moves. be unpredictable.

is there anyone you have not defiled. she was not exactly filed when i met her. lol.

i said she was special. not unique!

i'm going in.

i would like to negotiate more of an oral agreement.

hotties that want you to pay for their travel. tell them you want to meet in kiev and have a 'trial run' in the sack.

that voodoo that we doodoo.

i need cover and darkness. don't want everyone to see the magic. i do my best work in the dark. undercover, below the radar. .

well dear heart, i hate to be the bearer of sad tidings there is a chance that some unscrupulous business person has taken advantage of your good nature.

if it appears to be too good to be true. it probably is.

i had a girl once tell me how sex is like snowfall. this is how sex and snowfall are the same. you never know when it might happen, how many inches it will be and how long it will last. i tell the women that i also like snowfall and sex very much, and that there will be more than 6 inches that night and that it will snow all night! i tell them that while the number of inches are just above average, that i make up for it with enthusiasm and endurance!

enjoy kiev!

live long and monger!

hunter dave

[Prosal]

Can you please elaborate on this? More details please! I need to pack myself tons in info before my 1st trip to Ukriane.

Thank you.

EZThere's two great must-read threads in the Russia section, if you want to try to begin to understand Slavic women's psyche: "Dating Russian Women" and "Russian Women- Opinions and Advice".

[Ezyngo]

As soon as I told them I am here, none of them came.

Two of them ask for taxi money to get to my place. I said no.

I pay 60 us dollar for nice appartment on maydan squre.

JpSo do you have a contingency plan? Plan B, Plan C? Obviously Plan A did not work. So sorry about this. Is this the norm for Ukrainian women? Or just an isolated incident. I could not believe what I read.

Is Mayden Square close to the Clubs like Rio? I'd love to hear a report from you. Actually others too. LOL.

Thank you.

Good days gents.

EZ

[Member #4178]

I like the term.

I First visit Odessa, had phone numbers from two diferent paid websites. Ukrainedate. Com and russiancupid. Com I was collecting numbers for more then a month.

Odessa was not good as well and boring also very hot temp. so i travel to Kiev.

I bought a sim card and start to send messages. But both places and using two websites got zero results.

Next time if I wil come I will visit smaller cites or more rural one.

I may come next time for only 4 day for minimizing the damage.

I can recommand ukr appartments just book a head.

Ukraine has the potential but there is a learning curve. A better strategy needed to be developed.

The best thing is to try to charm them at restaurants, coffe shopes or at the street. I will try it next time but as I have said smaller cities may be better.

[Guntherus]

I like to use the great ..

Can't find how to recommend this report to the Distinction-Forum. So here it is. Read it again.

[Ezyngo]

There's two great must-read threads in the Russia section, if you want to try to begin to understand Slavic women's psyche: "Dating Russian Women" and "Russian Women- Opinions and Advice".Thank you very much for recommending this to me.

EZ

[Sponsor74]

Hi. To help you out maybe some short advice. It's not very likely the same website will do good service on two different continents. While it is also my experience that some contacts get cold feet and won't show upp or answere, the majority was OK when using websites like Flirt, Mama, Love and Romance Russ. If paying member on these sites you can use search function and exclude those not looking for sponsors or paid sex. Even those not mentioning this still will accept a date when asked. Then you can go to Rio and probably other clubs to meet girls, find a English-speaking (sort of) taxi driver, or go outside MacDonalds at Maidan, with good looks you can approach nice girls in the stores. Good luck, happy ending for youHello, I was asking before where are TODYA the Profis or the Non Profis in Kiev center. In my past trips the places mentioned above were a good options but now seems that the girls are afraid from the Police and are hide and more discret. It seems that some of them are working with agencies which pay money to the Police to protect them. Who can confirm this? How are working these gilrs now in order to avoid Police or Agencies (very high % for this protection. Who know where is the action now a days? And how operate these girl Non Pro or without agencies?

[Guntherus]

If the girls want to avoid being harassed by the arm of the law, they probably would not ask us to reveal their whereabouts in this forum. You ask a lot of questions. Better discuss this over a drink when I come to Kiev.


Hello, I was asking before where are TODYA the Profis or the Non Profis in Kiev center. In my past trips the places mentioned above were a good options but now seems that the girls are afraid from the Police and are hide and more discret. It seems that some of them are working with agencies which pay money to the Police to protect them. Who can confirm this? How are working these gilrs now in order to avoid Police or Agencies (very high % for this protection. Who know where is the action now a days? And how operate these girl Non Pro or without agencies?

[Stevie69]

Finally, a little common sense from some of the men on the ground. It is crazy to pay 300-400 from Rio for a couple of hours, when 100-200 can be had with a little hard work. Like George Constanza once said on Seinfeld, it is like paying for parking. Why do it when with a little work you can get it for "free".

[Ezyngo]

Finally, a little common sense from some of the men on the ground. It is crazy to pay 300-400 from Rio for a couple of hours, when 100-200 can be had with a little hard work. Like George Constanza once said on Seinfeld, it is like paying for parking. Why do it when with a little work you can get it for "free".Is that 300-400 USD or Euros. Way to expensive either way. IMHO the fun is in the hunting for bargains and is it not what mongering about? But most of us like to take the easy way to get it.

Good days gents.

EZ

[Curious12]

is that 300-400 usd or euros.300-400 usd.

[LilJoey]

Is that 300-400 USD or Euros. Way to expensive either way. IMHO the fun is in the hunting for bargains and is it not what mongering about? But most of us like to take the easy way to get it.

Good days gents.

EZDear Ezyngo. By asking your question about USD or Euros you reveal that you have not read the forum even for a few months back. You may not yet have had the pleasure of being flamed with the exhortation to RTFF, but you probably soon will be if you ask questions about stuff that you could very easily have found out about by doing a little reading. I know for a fact that I have always taken pains to be specific in my posts about something like the exact currency that prices were expressed in so as to avoid confusion of newcomers to Kiev trying to get their bearings. I recommend to you to make the effort to read this thread starting at least as far back as March of this year when I started posting. The earlier reports are helpful too, but I took the time to the best of my ability to collate much of the available info into survey type reports reviewing what info was available about all the options in Kiev, just to spoon feed the information to the newbie on a silver platter. My reports pertain to the current situation in Kiev after the River Palace boat was towed away in the year 2010 and all the WG's and mongers were left to find other ways of finding each other.

Dear Stevie69. When you pull out the big guns and mention the internationally known savant, George Costanza, from the Seinfeld show, even I felt that I must defer to such a mind, which is far greater than mine.

But then I recalled that George is unemployed, and has all the time in the world to pursue an obtuse and ridiculous course of action, of circling endlessly for an unlikely parking spot, in compulsive obedience to the psychosis inflicted by his nutty parents, which is, of course, what makes him so funny to watch on TV.

Allow me to reminisce for the benefit of those readers not familiar with American television. Your quote comes from one of my favorite episodes, where George is about to back into a parking space, but because he delays doing so and continues talking to Elaine, another driver sees the parking spot and begins to nose into it head first. George, seeing this, is quick to act and succeeds in backing into the spot halfway also. So we have George Costanza backed in halfway to a parking spot, and the other driver nosed in halfway into the same spot with the front of his car. And then ensues the ridiculous but very entertaining debate involving all bystanders and even the police, on who is right, and to whom does the parking spot properly belong. This was TV situation-comedy at its best. It was during the lead up to the situation described above, while Elaine is begging George to put the car into a parking garage instead of driving around endlessly looking for a parking spot in the crowded upper west side of Manhattan, so that they don't miss the game they were going to watch at Jerry Seinfeld's apartment, that George offers the opinion you quoted in your post. George simply cannot bring himself to pay for a parking garage when it is possible to find a free spot on the street. Even under conditions where they are late for an appointment and it may take them a very long time to find such a spot in that crowded neighborhood.

Now what is interesting to me, is that Elaine's position. Which is that in a crowded neighborhood congested with vehicles where it is always unlikely to find a parking spot, that when one does not have unlimited time to keep driving in circles hoping for the unlikely miracle of finding a parking spot, such as when you are late for an appointment that you want to keep. You put the fucking car in a garage. Is the normal, prudent position which the television viewer is supposed to identify with. While George's psychotic inability to park in a paid parking garage even in such a situation when they are late, is what makes him seem funny to the rest of the world.

Yet curiously we find it is George's viewpoint that is being quoted by you, in support thereof. I find this both interesting and instructive, as it will enable the readers to descend to the crux of the debate on the topic in previous posts.

Simply stated. The reason to still consider taking girls from Rio, despite the fact that they have a 3 hour minimum date which will cost you $300 USD, is because of two reasons. (1) time efficiency and (2) higher level of beauty.

As to the first reason. Time. It is undisputed that the experiences of those reporting demonstrate that considerable patience and time must be invested in pursuing the fake picture "bait and switch" ads on mamba. Ru in order to weed through the ugly girls that show up to your doorstep and finally find a girl that is sexy looking enough to be "doable". The experience reported in this thread has been, if you keep inviting girls from mamba. Ru, eventually you will "get lucky" and encounter a girl that is adequate and doable, or even fairly attractive. But it takes time and effort. However, at a place like Rio, it is different and far more efficient. The girls are there all collected in one place for you to see, so you can choose the one that appeals to you immediately and directly, with none of the collosal time waste consumed by dealing with the "bait and switch" of internet sites like mamba. Ru.

Regarding the second reason. Beauty. At Rio there are quite a number of extremely beautiful 9's and 10's who can be had for $300 USD for their 3 hour minimum date. Yes there are girls at Rio who are less beautiful than 9's and 10's, but I'm not talking about them. The reason to go to Rio is to get a true stunner, a 9 or 10, into your bed. However, such high level of beauty girls will not be found for $100 or less on mamba. Ru or on the street, regardless of how hard or long you work at it, unless a rare miracle occurs for you.

Also, the Rio rate of $300 USD for three hours, is a net rate of $100 USD per hour, which is not a bad rate for comparison value to girls on mamba. Ru asking for 800 UAH, which is the same rate (800 UAH = $100 USD). The only difference is really the 3 hour minimum. For those who know what to do with a very beautiful woman for three hours, it is really a bargain.

So the upshot of all this can be distilled down to the following bits of advice:

(1) If you have unlimited time in Kiev, like the unemployed George Costanza, and you are not very selective about girls' looks and you are interested in p4p. Then you may wish to expend some of that time spinning your wheels trying to weed through the "bait and switch" fake pictures posted by the girls / agencies advertising on mamba. Ru or other sites until you find a girl who is sexy enough for you to have a good time. This will be a harder thing to achieve the more selective you are about girls. But if you are one of those guys who is not that selective, you will be happier sooner, because an average or slightly above average young girl, can satisfy all your carnal desires (as long as those desires don't include the fucking a supermodel fantasy) , and there are many pretty good looking young girls available for $100 USD or less on mamba. Ru. Preparations for my upcoming trip on mamba. Ru have produced many offers for 600 UAH per hour (that's $75 USD) and one 400 UAH per hour ($50 USD) , but I have no idea what these girls look like.

(2) If your time in Kiev is very limited, for example, you will be there only a few days on a weekend, and you are very selective about girls' looks and are only interested in sex with the most beautiful women. 8s. 9's and 10s only. Then you should head straight to a place like Rio where the beauties of such high caliber can be found and are right there for the picking at your whim. Logic must tell you in advance that you must be prepared to pay a little more for such a high level of experience to be delivered to you immediately every night upon your demand. But fortunately, in Kiev, the premium for this fun factor is not too steep, because a $100 USD / hour rate is possible with one of these beauties at Rio. And the rates for such high level beauties at the nightclubs are higher than Rio's rates, as it has been reported that WGs at nightclubs have been asking sums like $300. 400 USD / hour and more (I'm talking about the stunners, not the average looking WGs who can be had for less) , and may negotiate down to $200 USD / hour. I personally don't see the nightclub scene as competitive with Rio pricewise, because at Rio I can do a private dance with the girl which includes much touching, and feeling up, and sexy interaction, which enables one to gauge the chemistry with the girl, something not at all possible when meeting a WG at a nightclub. And also, whereas the total of $200 USD is less than the Rio minimum rate, and you can have sex for $200, instead of $300, it's not worth it to do the $200 option because you only get the one hour with the nightclub girl instead of the three hours with the Rio girl.

(3) if you have limited time in Kiev, and you like the idea of fucking a model type 9 or 10 beauty, but you can also get into having good sex with a 6, 7 or 8, then you should definitely do both. Go to Rio and try to snag a 9 or 10 into your bed each night, and also spend your days going through as many girls who look good enough that you can find through mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or on the street, or in shops.

(4) If you are only into freebies, and don't care for p4p at all, you should stay home, because your own city has beautiful women also for you to pursue so why waste money to come to Kiev to pursue freebies, when you can do the same at home? Unless you simply like to travel or you love something particular about the beautiful women of Kiev, more than the beautiful women from your hometown.

As for p4p, Kiev is unique compared to western cities in that there are many more young girls prepared to give sex for money or sponsorship, and it is a widespread practice in Kiev, making it a monger's heaven where sex with young university students is far more possible for guys who've long since graduated.

For those newbies who have begun posting recently, or are in the stages of planning their first trip, there really is no substitute to reading the forum on this thread since the beginning of this year. It will open your eyes, and be of much more value to you than asking questions dealt with previously and hoping someone will answer the same thing for you again. As you go through the posts, copy and paste into a summary document the good bits of info you feel you can use, and you can review your summary document as needed to get a good understanding of what to do in Kiev. If Hunter Dave's generously detailed posts have taught you anything, it should be that advance preparation BEFORE you get to Kiev will have a great impact on your experience there and the kind of girls you will get to meet and have sex with once you get there, when it comes to girls from internet websites. So if you are looking for the lowest cost sex in Kiev, you must spend a significant amount of time getting dates set up on mamba. Ru, and then hope for the best, as to their looks, when they show up. If you need to turn the girl who shows up away because she is ugly or too unattractive to consider having sex with, don't worry, just keep trying, because eventually you will see a girl who looks good enough. And if you want to try to have sex with a 9 or 10, then hit the strip club Rio at night, to see what you can come up with. There is much detailed advice on Rio and the other p4p options in Kiev that I have posted earlier in this thread which I will not repeat here, but you can easily get to prior posts of any writer by clicking on a profile and then clicking on the link to prior posts.

LJ

[ErickMorsa]

Dear Ezyngo. By asking your question about USD or Euros you reveal that you have not read the forum even for a few months back. You may not yet have had the pleasure of being flamed with the exhortation to RTFF, but you probably soon will be if you ask questions about stuff that you could very easily have found out about by doing a little reading. I know for a fact that I have always taken pains to be specific in my posts about something like the exact currency that prices were expressed in so as to avoid confusion of newcomers to Kiev trying to get their bearings. I recommend to you to make the effort to read this thread starting at least as far back as March of this year when I started posting. The earlier reports are helpful too, but I took the time to the best of my ability to collate much of the available info into survey type reports reviewing what info was available about all the options in Kiev, just to spoon feed the information to the newbie on a silver platter. My reports pertain to the current situation in Kiev after the River Palace boat was towed away in the year 2010 and all the WG's and mongers were left to find other ways of finding each other.

Dear Stevie69. When you pull out the big guns and mention the internationally known savant, George Costanza, from the Seinfeld show, even I felt that I must defer to such a mind, which is far greater than mine.

But then I recalled that George is unemployed, and has all the time in the world to pursue an obtuse and ridiculous course of action, of circling endlessly for an unlikely parking spot, in compulsive obedience to the psychosis inflicted by his nutty parents, which is, of course, what makes him so funny to watch on TV.

Allow me to reminisce for the benefit of those readers not familiar with American television. Your quote comes from one of my favorite episodes, where George is about to back into a parking space, but because he delays doing so and continues talking to Elaine, another driver sees the parking spot and begins to nose into it head first. George, seeing this, is quick to act and succeeds in backing into the spot halfway also. So we have George Costanza backed in halfway to a parking spot, and the other driver nosed in halfway into the same spot with the front of his car. And then ensues the ridiculous but very entertaining debate involving all bystanders and even the police, on who is right, and to whom does the parking spot properly belong. This was TV situation-comedy at its best. It was during the lead up to the situation described above, while Elaine is begging George to put the car into a parking garage instead of driving around endlessly looking for a parking spot in the crowded upper west side of Manhattan, so that they don't miss the game they were going to watch at Jerry Seinfeld's apartment, that George offers the opinion you quoted in your post. George simply cannot bring himself to pay for a parking garage when it is possible to find a free spot on the street. Even under conditions where they are late for an appointment and it may take them a very long time to find such a spot in that crowded neighborhood.

Now what is interesting to me, is that Elaine's position. Which is that in a crowded neighborhood congested with vehicles where it is always unlikely to find a parking spot, that when one does not have unlimited time to keep driving in circles hoping for the unlikely miracle of finding a parking spot, such as when you are late for an appointment that you want to keep. You put the fucking car in a garage. Is the normal, prudent position which the television viewer is supposed to identify with. While George's psychotic inability to park in a paid parking garage even in such a situation when they are late, is what makes him seem funny to the rest of the world.

Yet curiously we find it is George's viewpoint that is being quoted by you, in support thereof. I find this both interesting and instructive, as it will enable the readers to descend to the crux of the debate on the topic in previous posts.

Simply stated. The reason to still consider taking girls from Rio, despite the fact that they have a 3 hour minimum date which will cost you $300 USD, is because of two reasons. (1) time efficiency and (2) higher level of beauty.

As to the first reason. Time. It is undisputed that the experiences of those reporting demonstrate that considerable patience and time must be invested in pursuing the fake picture "bait and switch" ads on mamba. Ru in order to weed through the ugly girls that show up to your doorstep and finally find a girl that is sexy looking enough to be "doable". The experience reported in this thread has been, if you keep inviting girls from mamba. Ru, eventually you will "get lucky" and encounter a girl that is adequate and doable, or even fairly attractive. But it takes time and effort. However, at a place like Rio, it is different and far more efficient. The girls are there all collected in one place for you to see, so you can choose the one that appeals to you immediately and directly, with none of the collosal time waste consumed by dealing with the "bait and switch" of internet sites like mamba. Ru.

Regarding the second reason. Beauty. At Rio there are quite a number of extremely beautiful 9's and 10's who can be had for $300 USD for their 3 hour minimum date. Yes there are girls at Rio who are less beautiful than 9's and 10's, but I'm not talking about them. The reason to go to Rio is to get a true stunner, a 9 or 10, into your bed. However, such high level of beauty girls will not be found for $100 or less on mamba. Ru or on the street, regardless of how hard or long you work at it, unless a rare miracle occurs for you.

Also, the Rio rate of $300 USD for three hours, is a net rate of $100 USD per hour, which is not a bad rate for comparison value to girls on mamba. Ru asking for 800 UAH, which is the same rate (800 UAH = $100 USD). The only difference is really the 3 hour minimum. For those who know what to do with a very beautiful woman for three hours, it is really a bargain.

So the upshot of all this can be distilled down to the following bits of advice:

(1) If you have unlimited time in Kiev, like the unemployed George Costanza, and you are not very selective about girls' looks and you are interested in p4p. Then you may wish to expend some of that time spinning your wheels trying to weed through the "bait and switch" fake pictures posted by the girls / agencies advertising on mamba. Ru or other sites until you find a girl who is sexy enough for you to have a good time. This will be a harder thing to achieve the more selective you are about girls. But if you are one of those guys who is not that selective, you will be happier sooner, because an average or slightly above average young girl, can satisfy all your carnal desires (as long as those desires don't include the fucking a supermodel fantasy) , and there are many pretty good looking young girls available for $100 USD or less on mamba. Ru. Preparations for my upcoming trip on mamba. Ru have produced many offers for 600 UAH per hour (that's $75 USD) and one 400 UAH per hour ($50 USD) , but I have no idea what these girls look like.

(2) If your time in Kiev is very limited, for example, you will be there only a few days on a weekend, and you are very selective about girls' looks and are only interested in sex with the most beautiful women. 8s. 9's and 10s only. Then you should head straight to a place like Rio where the beauties of such high caliber can be found and are right there for the picking at your whim. Logic must tell you in advance that you must be prepared to pay a little more for such a high level of experience to be delivered to you immediately every night upon your demand. But fortunately, in Kiev, the premium for this fun factor is not too steep, because a $100 USD / hour rate is possible with one of these beauties at Rio. And the rates for such high level beauties at the nightclubs are higher than Rio's rates, as it has been reported that WGs at nightclubs have been asking sums like $300. 400 USD / hour and more (I'm talking about the stunners, not the average looking WGs who can be had for less) , and may negotiate down to $200 USD / hour. I personally don't see the nightclub scene as competitive with Rio pricewise, because at Rio I can do a private dance with the girl which includes much touching, and feeling up, and sexy interaction, which enables one to gauge the chemistry with the girl, something not at all possible when meeting a WG at a nightclub. And also, whereas the total of $200 USD is less than the Rio minimum rate, and you can have sex for $200, instead of $300, it's not worth it to do the $200 option because you only get the one hour with the nightclub girl instead of the three hours with the Rio girl.

(3) if you have limited time in Kiev, and you like the idea of fucking a model type 9 or 10 beauty, but you can also get into having good sex with a 6, 7 or 8, then you should definitely do both. Go to Rio and try to snag a 9 or 10 into your bed each night, and also spend your days going through as many girls who look good enough that you can find through mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or on the street, or in shops.

(4) If you are only into freebies, and don't care for p4p at all, you should stay home, because your own city has beautiful women also for you to pursue so why waste money to come to Kiev to pursue freebies, when you can do the same at home? Unless you simply like to travel or you love something particular about the beautiful women of Kiev, more than the beautiful women from your hometown.

As for p4p, Kiev is unique compared to western cities in that there are many more young girls prepared to give sex for money or sponsorship, and it is a widespread practice in Kiev, making it a monger's heaven where sex with young university students is far more possible for guys who've long since graduated.

For those newbies who have begun posting recently, or are in the stages of planning their first trip, there really is no substitute to reading the forum on this thread since the beginning of this year. It will open your eyes, and be of much more value to you than asking questions dealt with previously and hoping someone will answer the same thing for you again. As you go through the posts, copy and paste into a summary document the good bits of info you feel you can use, and you can review your summary document as needed to get a good understanding of what to do in Kiev. If Hunter Dave's generously detailed posts have taught you anything, it should be that advance preparation BEFORE you get to Kiev will have a great impact on your experience there and the kind of girls you will get to meet and have sex with once you get there, when it comes to girls from internet websites. So if you are looking for the lowest cost sex in Kiev, you must spend a significant amount of time getting dates set up on mamba. Ru, and then hope for the best, as to their looks, when they show up. If you need to turn the girl who shows up away because she is ugly or too unattractive to consider having sex with, don't worry, just keep trying, because eventually you will see a girl who looks good enough. And if you want to try to have sex with a 9 or 10, then hit the strip club Rio at night, to see what you can come up with. There is much detailed advice on Rio and the other p4p options in Kiev that I have posted earlier in this thread which I will not repeat here, but you can easily get to prior posts of any writer by clicking on a profile and then clicking on the link to prior posts.

LJThis guy, is saying correctly, This is my 6th time in Ucrain, and yes, Better to go Rio, or invest time in the street only if you have it.

[Sorbonne]

Liljoey,

"As for p4p, Kiev is unique compared to western cities in that there are many more young girls prepared to give sex for money or sponsorship, and it is a widespread practice in Kiev, making it a monger's heaven where sex with young university students is far more possible for guys who've long since graduated."

This says it all. Thanks!

[Sorbonne]

Liljoey,

" (4) If you are only into freebies, and don't care for p4p at all, you should stay home, because your own city has beautiful women also for you to pursue so why waste money to come to Kiev to pursue freebies, when you can do the same at home? Unless you simply like to travel or you love something particular about the beautiful women of Kiev, more than the beautiful women from your hometown."

But I have to disagree with you slightly here, because back at home in the US, I can't even dream about dating, let alone having a one night stand, with a girl 25 years junior, as I was able to manage it in Kiev.

[Prosal]

But I have to disagree with you slightly here, because back at home in the US, I can't even dream about dating, let alone having a one night stand, with a girl 25 years junior, as I was able to manage it in Kiev.Right on the money. I don't know any other place than FSU where it is both socially acceptable and possible for a mid-aged guy to date and screw hot 18-22 yo girls on a regular basis.

All this raving about Rio's girls never ceases to amaze me. There are available women (freebies) ranging from cute to ridiculously hot literally everywhere in Ukraine.

[Webvantage]

LJ,

I have told you before but I will tell you again, thank you for your detailed posts. Most of us that are planning our first trip to Ukraine do read up before we start asking questions and your recent posts are a wealth of knowledge. But I do have a question for you that I don't think I have seen the answer to yet. I know the rate for a Rio girl $300/3hr but do the girls prefer USD or UAH? I know they probably don't care as long as they get money but I am just wondering if I need to bring a stack of $100's with me or not. I usually don't travel with a large amount of USD as I like to deal mostly with local currency. Your thoughts.

[LilJoey]

Liljoey,

" (4) If you are only into freebies, and don't care for p4p at all, you should stay home, because your own city has beautiful women also for you to pursue so why waste money to come to Kiev to pursue freebies, when you can do the same at home? Unless you simply like to travel or you love something particular about the beautiful women of Kiev, more than the beautiful women from your hometown."

But I have to disagree with you slightly here, because back at home in the US, I can't even dream about dating, let alone having a one night stand, with a girl 25 years junior, as I was able to manage it in Kiev.Dear Sorbonne, I agree with you, and I tried to capture all such considerations in writing that "you love something particular about the beautiful women of Kiev". In this case the fact that middle aged guys in their 40s / 50s are not precluded by age difference from "getting some".

Dear Prosal, I have come to understand from reading your posts, that you possess a certain savoir faire that enables you to slip into the pants of some very sexy dyevushkas who, as you point out, are seeking exactly what you present yourself as offering. But it is certain that you understand that most guys who cannot or will not measure up to your criteria of classiness for freebie success with the EE high class female, can very easily bed girls from Rio who are of a caliber simply unattainable by them as freebies on the streets of Kiev. That is the allure of Rio. It is a place where even the fellow who is challenged by the criteria for success that you described, can also satisfy his desires for sex with some of Kiev's beauties as a p4p option, because such girls are beyond his reach as freebies. And yes, no one disputes that there are "ridiculously hot" girls all over Ukraine, just as you will be the first to admit there are in Paris too. The issue I tried to also bring out is the "time" factor, where there may be insufficient time to pursue the freebie options in Kiev, a place like Rio offers a quick p4p fix in the most timely manner.

I'm ooking forward to my next visit to Frankfurt / Kiev in a few weeks for weekend of Sept 1. 6.

LJ

[LilJoey]

LJ,

I have told you before but I will tell you again, thank you for your detailed posts. Most of us that are planning our first trip to Ukraine do read up before we start asking questions and your recent posts are a wealth of knowledge. But I do have a question for you that I don't think I have seen the answer to yet. I know the rate for a Rio girl $300/3hr but do the girls prefer USD or UAH? I know they probably don't care as long as they get money but I am just wondering if I need to bring a stack of $100's with me or not. I usually don't travel with a large amount of USD as I like to deal mostly with local currency. Your thoughts.You don't need USD at Rio. Ukrainian money is perfectly acceptable. 800 UAH is universally accepted as $100 USD. So I slip the girl 2, 400 UAH for her $300 USD fee routinely. Wherever I travel I have been relying on withdrawals of the local currency from the ATM machines now universally situated throughout most modern cities, because I don't like the idea of carrying around a lot of cash, that is subject to theft or loss, and is just a worry to me. Don't forget, when on a mongering trip, you will be expecting girls to be in your hotel room or apartment. Sometimes there is a safe, and sometimes not. I always bring a combination lock to lock anything valuable into my carry on bag, just in case there is no safe. I don't want to have to worry about my possessions, passport or cash when a working girl I just met is at my apartment, so I can take a shower in peace and not worry where she is or what she is doing the whole time she is there. I take out money in an amount each day that I estimate will suffice for what I need for each day, to further minimize risk. I am happy with the exchange rate for international currencies that my bank uses, so I see no need to run around looking for slightly better exchange rates in each city, which I regard as a hassle for little benefit.

There is one caveat, you should be aware of, though. Aside from the fee associated with the use of the ATM imposed by the owner of the ATM, your own home bank may also assess an additional 3% international currency exchange FEE on each cash withdrawal transaction. Many, if not most banks, impose this additional fee. Therefore, you must ask your bank what all their fees are for foreign cash withdrawals at an ATM. If they are a bank which does impose this additional fee, then you should consider opening an account at a bank that does not, or of an account type that is exempt from such a charge.

For example, I know from experience that a Citibank Gold account does not have such an additional 3% fee added. So using a Citibank Gold account when traveling is a good deal, since you only pay the local ATM fee, and the exchange rate is an acceptable one.

[Member #4491]

Liljoey, you nailed a strategy for me. Thank you for taking the time to write all these reports!

I am soon off to Kiev, and Rio is now 100% on my todo list.

Cheers!

Barba

[Curious12]

One tip about ATM fees. If you have an account from one of these banks:

https://my.ukrsibbank.com/en/branches_atms/global_ATM_alliance/

Barclays, BAC, Scotia in Canada etc. You will not pay fees if you use Ukrsibbank ATM in Kiev.

I learned it this year, I used to pay $5 per transaction for every withdrawal but this time I was able to save a lot of $$$.

So if you can, go to Ukrribabnk ATM and save your hard earned money.

[Sorbonne]

You don't need USD at Rio. Ukrainian money is perfectly acceptable. 800 UAH is universally accepted as $100 USD. So I slip the girl 2, 400 UAH for her $300 USD fee routinely. Wherever I travel I have been relying on withdrawals of the local currency from the ATM machines now universally situated throughout most modern cities, because I don't like the idea of carrying around a lot of cash, that is subject to theft or loss, and is just a worry to me. Don't forget, when on a mongering trip, you will be expecting girls to be in your hotel room or apartment. Sometimes there is a safe, and sometimes not. I always bring a combination lock to lock anything valuable into my carry on bag, just in case there is no safe. I don't want to have to worry about my possessions, passport or cash when a working girl I just met is at my apartment, so I can take a shower in peace and not worry where she is or what she is doing the whole time she is there. I take out money in an amount each day that I estimate will suffice for what I need for each day, to further minimize risk. I am happy with the exchange rate for international currencies that my bank uses, so I see no need to run around looking for slightly better exchange rates in each city, which I regard as a hassle for little benefit.

There is one caveat, you should be aware of, though. Aside from the fee associated with the use of the ATM imposed by the owner of the ATM, your own home bank may also assess an additional 3% international currency exchange FEE on each cash withdrawal transaction. Many, if not most banks, impose this additional fee. Therefore, you must ask your bank what all their fees are for foreign cash withdrawals at an ATM. If they are a bank which does impose this additional fee, then you should consider opening an account at a bank that does not, or of an account type that is exempt from such a charge.

For example, I know from experience that a Citibank Gold account does not have such an additional 3% fee added. So using a Citibank Gold account when traveling is a good deal, since you only pay the local ATM fee, and the exchange rate is an acceptable one.I do exactly the same as Liljoey described above. I have a Citibank Gold account for my foreign travel. It also does not charge a fee for using ATM other than their own. (My Bank of America account charges a fee of 3% for foreign transaction AND a fee for using ATM other than their own.) But I was actually not aware of the local ATM fee. I believe some ATM in Kiev says,"this ATM does not charge a fee."

[Sorbonne]

One tip about ATM fees. If you have an account from one of these banks:

https://my.ukrsibbank.com/en/branches_atms/global_ATM_alliance/

Barclays, BAC, Scotia in Canada etc. You will not pay fees if you use Ukrsibbank ATM in Kiev.

I learned it this year, I used to pay $5 per transaction for every withdrawal but this time I was able to save a lot of $$$.

So if you can, go to Ukrribabnk ATM and save your hard earned money.Thanks for the tip!

I was aware that my Bank of America account does not charge a fee for using Barclay ATM in the UK but was not aware about Ukrribabnk ATM. That is a good thing to know. (But it still charge a fee of 3% for foreign transactions.)

www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_ATM_Alliance

[Prosal]

Dear Prosal .I didn't want to enter in a contest of freebie vs. P4P. The freebie game works for some, it doesn't for others and others choose to ignore it for whatever reason. As usual, to each its own.

[LilJoey]

I didn't want to enter in a contest of freebie vs. P4P. The freebie game works for some, it doesn't for others and others choose to ignore it for whatever reason. As usual, to each its own.There is no contest. It is a matter of preference for each guy. No one spends money on p4p needlessly. If it were the case that all guys could achieve equivalent results within the time frame of their visit chasing freebies as they could from p4p, then I'm fairly certain all would opt for freebies. The oldest profession exists and is alive and well in Kiev becaause that is not the case and they cannot achieve equivalent results pursuing freebies. So those who have the ability to achieve the results they want pursuing freebies and have the necessary time, will go that route. Those who don't will use p4p to achieve the best results they can. I am interested only in providing what information I know to be correct to guide the newbies pursuing the p4p route, as I see you took pains to lay out particulars to guide those looking for high level beauties for freebies. It's all good, friend. No contest intended.

LJ

[POS1043]

I have spent a lot of time over the last day or two reading articles in this forum and have got a ton of information but still have some questions.

Its seems as though staying in an apartment is the way to go? Are they secure and safe? Any recommendations on where to rent from (so far I have been speaking with the people at http://www.kievapts.com/)?

As far as girls. I am a 30 year old guy from Miami Beach. I am a good looking and have my stuff together and have no problem picking up chicks (7-8. 5's) pretty much nightly in the US and places I visit. I am interested in picking up normal girls in day time and at night time in the clubs. Is this very doable? What are the best places to hang out in the city in day and what are the best night spots?

As far WG's. I like to pick up WG's, but am very selective and like to go for girls that it is hard for me or can't pick up on my own or that I can do different things with (3somes). Money is really not an issue for me and I do have limited time (4 nights). From what I have read it seems like the overall consensus is Rio, any other suggestions. Also for a massage place is Rakuena the best (top quality girls)?

What about mamba. Ru? I set up a profile there and have started messaging girls. Is there a good way to go about this to weed out the fakes and get good results? Or, is mamba a waste of time?

What about top-modals? (are they all BS pics)

Also, I always read about all of these College girls who are looking for a sponsor and are half pros and all this. Where do you find these girls?

Thanks in advance for anyone that can give me some more info.

[Curious12]

I have spent a lot of time over the last day or two reading articles in this forum and have got a ton of information but still have some questions.

Its seems as though staying in an apartment is the way to go? Are they secure and safe? Any recommendations on where to rent from (so far I have been speaking with the people at.

http://www.kievapts.com/

)?Check Kievinn, they have 24/7 security, great service, safe deposit box in each room. They are located on Mikhaylovskaya street, just 2 minutes from Independence Square.

http://www.kievinn.com/

If you decide to rent from them, I would recomment avoiding the first floor, they have thin walls and you can hear what is going on in the next apartment and of course they can hear you. Upstairs everything is ok.


As far WG's. I like to pick up WG's, but am very selective and like to go for girls that it is hard for me or can't pick up on my own or that I can do different things with (3somes). Money is really not an issue for me and I do have limited time (4 nights). From what I have read it seems like the overall consensus is Rio, any other suggestions. Also for a massage place is Rakuena the best (top quality girls)?If money is not the issue, Rio would be the best option. You can see as many girls you you like, talk to them and choose the best one.

[POS1043]

Check Kievinn, they have 24/7 security, great service, safe deposit box in each room. They are located on Mikhaylovskaya street, just 2 minutes from Independence Square.

http://www.kievinn.com/

If you decide to rent from them, I would recomment avoiding the first floor, they have thin walls and you can hear what is going on in the next apartment and of course they can hear you. Upstairs everything is ok.

If money is not the issue, Rio would be the best option. You can see as many girls you you like, talk to them and choose the best one.Thanks. Kievinn looks pretty nice from the website. It looks almost like a hotel / apartment. In what ways is this different than other apartments offered? Is it that they have one central location? Looks like there is front desk attendant of some sort, I am assuming they let girl in, and for no additional charge?

Yeah seem like Rio is the general consensus. What about picking up girls at Arena, Buddha bar, Pattika, etc? Is there any site that you would recommend if you were going to go that route where the girls are real as in pics and high quality.

[Curious12]

thanks. kievinn looks pretty nice from the website. it looks almost like a hotel / apartment. in what ways is this different than other apartments offered? is it that they have one central location? looks like there is front desk attendant of some sort, i am assuming they let girl in, and for no additional charge?

yeah seem like rio is the general consensus. what about picking up girls at arena, buddha bar, pattika, etc? is there any site that you would recommend if you were going to go that route where the girls are real as in pics and high quality.it's exactly what you said, feels almost like a hotel. but actually it's a regular apartment building that can be found in central part of kiev. i have attached a picture. the owner of kievinn started buying apartments in this building a few years ago, each year they buy more and upgrade each unit. now there are only three apartments in the whole building that belong to their original owners. they have parking in the back, video surveillance, administrator in the morning and security guard at night. every day they clean your apartment and replace towels. they have high speed internet, big screen tv. i have been staying there since 2008, great service, no problem bringing girls to your apartment. no additional charges, you already paid for the unit.

i don't like to use websites because of fake pictures. rio is the best option, get there at 8 pm and you will have plenty of time to choose a girl.

[POS1043]

it's exactly what you said, feels almost like a hotel. but actually it's a regular apartment building that can be found in central part of kiev. i have attached a picture. the owner of kievinn started buying apartments in this building a few years ago, each year they buy more and upgrade each unit. now there are only three apartments in the whole building that belong to their original owners. they have parking in the back, video surveillance, administrator in the morning and security guard at night. every day they clean your apartment and replace towels. they have high speed internet, big screen tv. i have been staying there since 2008, great service, no problem bringing girls to your apartment. no additional charges, you already paid for the unit.

i don't like to use websites because of fake pictures. rio is the best option, get there at 8 pm and you will have plenty of time to choose a girl.i am not sure if the guy from kievinn has any rooms. he is supposed to let me know tomorrow. do you know of any other places similar to this?

also do you know if rio is open on sunday night.

[POS1043]

Does any one know if either of these sites are real girls, no bait and switch? Top-modals has some pretty fine girls, I find it hard to believe they are 100 an hour and real.

Also is shooters and patiba best place to pick up younger university girls?

[LilJoey]

Does any one know if either of these sites are real girls, no bait and switch? Top-modals has some pretty fine girls, I find it hard to believe they are 100 an hour and real.

Also is shooters and patiba best place to pick up younger university girls?PODS1043, please confirm you have read this thread since March to date and made notes of the information of interest to you. As all of your questions have been discussed on this thread in recent months, it does not appear that you have done so yet. I will be happy to entertain your further questions, if you still have any left, after you have confirmed you have done so (or at least confirm you have read all my posts, including the posts of others I have cited and referred to).

LJ

[Lappgubbe]

Does any one know if either of these sites are real girls, no bait and switch? Top-modals has some pretty fine girls, I find it hard to believe they are 100 an hour and real.

Also is shooters and patiba best place to pick up younger university girls?GIA:s pictures are for real, at least it is photos of the girl coming to you. Of course the photos are chosen to show her best sides.

In top modal you are gambling. Some are real and some are fake.

[Sponsor74]

GIA:s pictures are for real, at least it is photos of the girl coming to you. Of course the photos are chosen to show her best sides.

In top modal you are gambling. Some are real and some are fake.Which one is better or at east less fakes? Furthermore, seems for me Mamba a risk with Spyes or virus or am I wrong? Ane bad experiences in this topic with Mamba?

[Curious12]

I am not sure if the guy from Kievinn has any rooms. He is supposed to let me know tomorrow. Do you know of any other places similar to this?

Also do you know if Rio is open on Sunday night.No, all other places have regular apartments, but nothing like that.

Rio is open every day.

[ErickMorsa]

Well for those who like to be after young girls and no paying or maybe pay less, Vodka Bar is good option, I went on Thursday, It was crowdy, lot of young girls, a freind of mine talk utside with some girls and we get in, ofcourse is better if you ask for a table and for this need to buy a bottle, but this way is easier to find girls, wemet some girls from Moscow, cute nice, and we had good night, also not recomended for going on Wednesday, a lot of guys almost no girls.

Vodka Bar is near from Globus.

[ErickMorsa]

Which one is better or at east less fakes? Furthermore, seems for me Mamba a risk with Spyes or virus or am I wrong? Ane bad experiences in this topic with Mamba?Also GIA, yes they are the girls, but with lots of Photoshop.

[ErickMorsa]

I have spent a lot of time over the last day or two reading articles in this forum and have got a ton of information but still have some questions.

Its seems as though staying in an apartment is the way to go? Are they secure and safe? Any recommendations on where to rent from (so far I have been speaking with the people at.

http://www.kievapts.com/

)?

As far as girls. I am a 30 year old guy from Miami Beach. I am a good looking and have my stuff together and have no problem picking up chicks (7-8. 5's) pretty much nightly in the US and places I visit. I am interested in picking up normal girls in day time and at night time in the clubs. Is this very doable? What are the best places to hang out in the city in day and what are the best night spots?

As far WG's. I like to pick up WG's, but am very selective and like to go for girls that it is hard for me or can't pick up on my own or that I can do different things with (3somes). Money is really not an issue for me and I do have limited time (4 nights). From what I have read it seems like the overall consensus is Rio, any other suggestions. Also for a massage place is Rakuena the best (top quality girls)?

What about mamba. Ru? I set up a profile there and have started messaging girls. Is there a good way to go about this to weed out the fakes and get good results? Or, is mamba a waste of time?

What about top-modals? (are they all BS pics)

Also, I always read about all of these College girls who are looking for a sponsor and are half pros and all this. Where do you find these girls?

Thanks in advance for anyone that can give me some more info.Also you can go to Budha Bar, nicegirls, starting on 200 USD hour.

[JohnMorris1975]

Hi people! I also used KievInn many times.

http://www.kievinn.com/

, this is great place just 70 meters from main square, I was in room with sauna and Jacuzzi on top floor.

http://www.kievinn.com/apartments-6.html

There is 24 hours security and I felt myself comfortable there. I was there several times with my g / f at KievInn, she was pretty girl and all was perfect but she started to ask money. Like she need money because her father need medicine for 1000$! And if I send money she agree to came to me again but if no then she not came. So I finished relations with her. And soon I will came to KievInn apartments again, in September. But without girl! I'm 36 years old guy and never picked up girls in Kiev. Where should I go? I heard about Rio, Budda Bar, Vodka Bar. What place better? Is there only prostitutes there or also ordinary girls which want relations? How can I recognize who is who? If she normal girl and if I ask sex for money she can be unhappy if I ask sex for money. But if I only want sex how can I recognize who is prostitutes?

Hope to hear some advices

[HunterDave]

My college hottie from Tuesday night, Julia, . Her best could curl your hair and make your ass whistle.) We cleaned up after 9 AM and as she headed to the shower I can still picture in my mindseye those silhouetted nice big lips between those luscious thighs walking away from me. I get hard just re-picturing those lips. .

Hunter DaveMy mindseye of those lucious lips in the jacuzzi and in my bed.

May the monger force be with you!

Hunter Dave

[HunterDave]

My last trip was great and while I had several nice freebie and semi-pro lays I thought I would single out one special lay. While the 18 year old freebie and the 20 year old (Julia) University freebie were close Honorable Mentions and 1st runner-up, respectively, the Mong-scar (monger oscar) goes to Olya for her massages, great sex and mindblowing BBBJs. LOL! Overall a very happy and enjoyable trip!

ABC,

Hunter Dave

[Bbilly]

Ok so I usually don't post much but here's my take on Kiev. First I'm at lybid hotel 70 buck, run down a bit girl friendly before 9pm. I went to dlux, (very posch) caribian club (small nice for dancing) buddha bar, (nicer than even dlux) vodka bar (non-pros, young crowd, loud music bar, good) and finally SHOOTERS, which I haven't seen reported yet on the forum.

So shooters is for a well dressed young to old crowd, the old being men with money. A tough face control at the door, my arabic "friends" (I'm white) got shut out twice in a a row and I almost did, and I saw others get the negative too. I just didn't bring a sport coat or dress shoes on this trip. Shooters was nice, crowded and had hot women all 7-10 non and semi pros, probably pros too but its not a structured pro place at all.

ANyway here's the meat of the story. I meet a 9 that looks like jennifer conelly when she was 19 (old actress) and begin the process. She likes me and says she wants a virgin mojito, ok no biggie after 5 min but I buy it, then after 15 min she says lets go upstairs for sushi, I think ok she may be trying to get over on me but I also think this is the way it is here and there is no way around it.

We sit and eat and she orders two more virgin drinks along with a sushi plate and it was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet (it was my 4rth place that night) and they don't take amex so. Whew.

And now the fun begins, I was playing it as a non-pro freebee- she said she studies law so I say do you work also, she says no and I say so how do you pay for school and living, thinking I'd get a sad story and then I could say "oh maybe I could help you with that," but instead she becomes offended and says she doesn't like the question. She begins to text her friend and than says"I want to smoke" So thinking I blew it I start damage control with out being to weak looking saying, hey its a fair question and I'm just trying to get to know you" Mind you she hasnt let on to being a prosti yet but I'm getting to think she is by the attitude and other small details.

Long story short, she offered no signs of actually liking me aside from sitting with me and I really just wanted to say,"ok lets cut the shit, you want 600 grivnha or what?" but I didn't have any obvious clue that I should break character. I had told her my job and that I wanted to spend my last day in Kiev with her tomorrow and all she kept saying was "maybe I'm very busy tomorrow" So I'm thinking WTF and she keeps saying she wants to go to the maldives with me? But not lunch? So finally I see the waitress drop off a pack of cigs, I have no money and I tell her she has to pay for that and then the beast comes out,"oh you don't have any money? This is too much for you hahaha, I call my friend then, I like ukranian guy he pay all, hahah I don't like you, you ask question I don't like and you don't pay my things." I remind her I paid 400 already on her and that she should say thank you and not insult me and that maybe in her country its all cash but in america we use credit cards and its not my fault they don't accept it in this place, Also that she never asked if I would buy cigs for her. So we get in a mini battle about manners, and she insists my card was "out of money hahaha" and that I don't have much money, I say I could buy a car with that card and instead of shutting up she gets into"what type of car?" and seriously wants me to name drop cars I "could" buy. I keep it real and say oh who cares, maybe a toyota, she thinks this is ok and says "oh that is a good car" I laugh inside thinking. So in ukraine you must just have to brag and brag, spend 100 bucks up front on drinks and dinner, then if you blow enough smoke up their asses you can F them for free?

I say,"ok I'm going to go get my friend and borrow 30 grivnha so I can pay your smokes but I'm not happy with you or how you talk, you are very "bad educated" I come back 5 min later and magically she is gone and the bill was paid. I see her downstairs and she is already talking with some arabic guy of all people (how did he get in?) iI interrupt and send him on his way and say "oh I went back and didn't see you" she looked at me for a long 5 seconds. Grabbed her purse and went off in the direction of said oil sheek.

Side note, the night before two 9's came up to me all smiley and wanting to know where I was from, I am young looking (26 by all who meet me) but really nearer to 40, blond blue eyes in shape, so I get alot of looks here, they can tell I'm foreign. So these two 9's ask for drinks after 5 min and when I say ok and turn to buy them, hey are off talking to others and then slowly drift away as I wait for their drinks. Drinks arrive, they are out of sight. Again WTF?

Another girl, a 9 easy, I approached by tapping her shoulder since the music was extremely loud, she says" I don't like when men touch me" I say oh so you must not have a boyfriend then either, she actually smiled at that but then went back to ***** mode and said, I don't want to talk to you" I tried once more to no avail. This was the second time that happened to me, I barely tap a girl on the outer shoulder and BOOM, its over.

SO wrap up, I pick 9's only, true 9's not made up 28 year olds who have had kids, but young hot white w nice skin, and thin and I'm a guy whos lived in brasil for a year and know what a true hotty looks like. So maybe its the level but so far I really don't get it here. Granted I had only two nights but It seems the girls here are very cutthroat and basically stupid. Can't any guy just say hes rich? I'm not against buying a drink even though I would never do this in the US, I know its a different culture but why ask for a drink and bail? Why get so bent if you are a semi pro when I ask about your work and don't buy 3 dollar cigarettes after 60 dollars in food and drink?

Is this just a bad start or am I playing the game wrong? I thought the soft sell was best. I never walk up and go "hey you, you want to F me? I pay you X amount"

Comments

[Member #4274]

Ok so I usually don't post much but here's my take on Kiev. First I'm at lybid hotel 70 buck, run down a bit girl friendly before 9pm. I went to dlux, (very posch) caribian club (small nice for dancing) buddha bar, (nicer than even dlux) vodka bar (non-pros, young crowd, loud music bar, good) and finally SHOOTERS, which I haven't seen reported yet on the forum.

So shooters is for a well dressed young to old crowd, the old being men with money. A tough face control at the door, my arabic "friends" (I'm white) got shut out twice in a a row and I almost did, and I saw others get the negative too. I just didn't bring a sport coat or dress shoes on this trip. Shooters was nice, crowded and had hot women all 7-10 non and semi pros, probably pros too but its not a structured pro place at all.

ANyway here's the meat of the story. I meet a 9 that looks like jennifer conelly when she was 19 (old actress) and begin the process. She likes me and says she wants a virgin mojito, ok no biggie after 5 min but I buy it, then after 15 min she says lets go upstairs for sushi, I think ok she may be trying to get over on me but I also think this is the way it is here and there is no way around it.

We sit and eat and she orders two more virgin drinks along with a sushi plate and it was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet (it was my 4rth place that night) and they don't take amex so. Whew.

And now the fun begins, I was playing it as a non-pro freebee- she said she studies law so I say do you work also, she says no and I say so how do you pay for school and living, thinking I'd get a sad story and then I could say "oh maybe I could help you with that," but instead she becomes offended and says she doesn't like the question. She begins to text her friend and than says"I want to smoke" So thinking I blew it I start damage control with out being to weak looking saying, hey its a fair question and I'm just trying to get to know you" Mind you she hasnt let on to being a prosti yet but I'm getting to think she is by the attitude and other small details.

Long story short, she offered no signs of actually liking me aside from sitting with me and I really just wanted to say,"ok lets cut the shit, you want 600 grivnha or what?" but I didn't have any obvious clue that I should break character. I had told her my job and that I wanted to spend my last day in Kiev with her tomorrow and all she kept saying was "maybe I'm very busy tomorrow" So I'm thinking WTF and she keeps saying she wants to go to the maldives with me? But not lunch? So finally I see the waitress drop off a pack of cigs, I have no money and I tell her she has to pay for that and then the beast comes out,"oh you don't have any money? This is too much for you hahaha, I call my friend then, I like ukranian guy he pay all, hahah I don't like you, you ask question I don't like and you don't pay my things." I remind her I paid 400 already on her and that she should say thank you and not insult me and that maybe in her country its all cash but in america we use credit cards and its not my fault they don't accept it in this place, Also that she never asked if I would buy cigs for her. So we get in a mini battle about manners, and she insists my card was "out of money hahaha" and that I don't have much money, I say I could buy a car with that card and instead of shutting up she gets into"what type of car?" and seriously wants me to name drop cars I "could" buy. I keep it real and say oh who cares, maybe a toyota, she thinks this is ok and says "oh that is a good car" I laugh inside thinking. So in ukraine you must just have to brag and brag, spend 100 bucks up front on drinks and dinner, then if you blow enough smoke up their asses you can F them for free?

I say,"ok I'm going to go get my friend and borrow 30 grivnha so I can pay your smokes but I'm not happy with you or how you talk, you are very "bad educated" I come back 5 min later and magically she is gone and the bill was paid. I see her downstairs and she is already talking with some arabic guy of all people (how did he get in?) iI interrupt and send him on his way and say "oh I went back and didn't see you" she looked at me for a long 5 seconds. Grabbed her purse and went off in the direction of said oil sheek.

Side note, the night before two 9's came up to me all smiley and wanting to know where I was from, I am young looking (26 by all who meet me) but really nearer to 40, blond blue eyes in shape, so I get alot of looks here, they can tell I'm foreign. So these two 9's ask for drinks after 5 min and when I say ok and turn to buy them, hey are off talking to others and then slowly drift away as I wait for their drinks. Drinks arrive, they are out of sight. Again WTF?

Another girl, a 9 easy, I approached by tapping her shoulder since the music was extremely loud, she says" I don't like when men touch me" I say oh so you must not have a boyfriend then either, she actually smiled at that but then went back to * mode and said, I don't want to talk to you" I tried once more to no avail. This was the second time that happened to me, I barely tap a girl on the outer shoulder and BOOM, its over.

SO wrap up, I pick 9's only, true 9's not made up 28 year olds who have had kids, but young hot white w nice skin, and thin and I'm a guy whos lived in brasil for a year and know what a true hotty looks like. So maybe its the level but so far I really don't get it here. Granted I had only two nights but It seems the girls here are very cutthroat and basically stupid. Can't any guy just say hes rich? I'm not against buying a drink even though I would never do this in the US, I know its a different culture but why ask for a drink and bail? Why get so bent if you are a semi pro when I ask about your work and don't buy 3 dollar cigarettes after 60 dollars in food and drink?

Is this just a bad start or am I playing the game wrong? I thought the soft sell was best. I never walk up and go "hey you, you want to F me? I pay you X amount"

CommentsBbilly,

Sorry about your negative experience in Kyiv thus far. I am not sure what advice I can give you other than make sure you dress well (I always wear a fashionable dress shirt and tie or jeans with a blazer and lacoste shoes) , carry more money on you (I usually have 2-2600 grivnha on me) and use your gut instinct when speaking with a woman in Kyiv. Not all Ukrainian women are poorly mannered and looking to take advantage of you, but when you decide to meet women in clubs there all bets are off. Try the internet. Like you I am not into strippers and outright prostitutes. I prefer chasing semi-pros or regular women. I find the interent is a much better source than clubs. But that is just my two cents.

However, I want to thank you for being so honest in your post. It was an interesting and entertaining read. I mean that respectfully. Much more realistic than some of the obviously fabricated, exaggerated and outright boastful drivel that gets posted on this forum. Trust me, your experience is probably much more common than you think. It just doesn't get posted. Good luck in your future hunting!

[Member #4491]

Ok so I usually don't post much but here's my take on Kiev.These girls are in a currupt state of mind. They are found everywhere on the globe. The more you try to impress them, the more their distorted childish egos will try to step on your face in an irrational attempt to boost their self esteem, and to get as much as possible for as little as possible. A desperate power game, where no one really did define the agenda and target (I doubt that you where shopping for a wife; hence the Toyota talk is of topic in that bar). Their greedy egos are in control and the sane thing would be to immediately leave this negative place, and try to meet someone that is more open for accepting either your attention or your cash, without having to compensate their life compromises by trying to make men in their surroundings feel as unworthy qualifiers. But they are pretty and have a vagina so staying and trying is the mongers lot in life. .

A man should never qualify, at least not on these parameters you mention. Especially not for a wh*re. Tapping a shoulder would be a mistake in many places where people are angry as a default state, but maybe if you just face these girls in a not so passively aggressive way and are honest about your intentions? Tell a girl that you find her incredibly beautiful and sexy, and would like to spend the evening and possibly night with her. Smile as you charm. Before she replies you ask her if you can buy her a drink. Her exit to dismiss you or say yes. If SHE does not qualify for YOUR attention and money within that one drink, send her off just like you would do in Brazil. You lead, she follows. I rarely entertain two or more girls if I intend to fuck that night. It can go just about either way, unless they are outspoken pros with a price tag around their neck, or unless one is my "gf" of course.

Although I only traveled to e east Europe some 7-8 times I get to work a lot with people from these countries, and as I see it the predominant female brew in east Europe is a mix of traditional man / woman stereo types and a simplistic materialistic definition of power and success. A slightly desperate ideology that I think is greatly affected by the erased history (simple but enlightening reading is for example "Imperium" from 1993 by Ryszard Kapu&347; ci&324; ski). I find such impress-games you mention totally boring and they trigger things in me that makes me feel less happy about myself and my evening. Detach from it or walk away is Barbas recipy for himself, when in such negative energy fields. 50% of the ISG population will think that I am just babbling away with superficial shit, but I bet that that if you stop trying to impress these girls and just focus on partying and having fun with others like minded, the females will be impressed and will start to want your attention and your money.

Good luck!

B.

[Start123]

Ok so I usually don't post much but here's my take on Kiev. First I'm at lybid hotel 70 buck, run down a bit girl friendly before 9pm. I went to dlux, (very posch) caribian club (small nice for dancing) buddha bar, (nicer than even dlux) vodka bar (non-pros, young crowd, loud music bar, good) and finally SHOOTERS, which I haven't seen reported yet on the forum.

So shooters is for a well dressed young to old crowd, the old being men with money. A tough face control at the door, my arabic "friends" (I'm white) got shut out twice in a a row and I almost did, and I saw others get the negative too. I just didn't bring a sport coat or dress shoes on this trip. Shooters was nice, crowded and had hot women all 7-10 non and semi pros, probably pros too but its not a structured pro place at all.

ANyway here's the meat of the story. I meet a 9 that looks like jennifer conelly when she was 19 (old actress) and begin the process. She likes me and says she wants a virgin mojito, ok no biggie after 5 min but I buy it, then after 15 min she says lets go upstairs for sushi, I think ok she may be trying to get over on me but I also think this is the way it is here and there is no way around it.

We sit and eat and she orders two more virgin drinks along with a sushi plate and it was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet (it was my 4rth place that night) and they don't take amex so. Whew.

And now the fun begins, I was playing it as a non-pro freebee- she said she studies law so I say do you work also, she says no and I say so how do you pay for school and living, thinking I'd get a sad story and then I could say "oh maybe I could help you with that," but instead she becomes offended and says she doesn't like the question. She begins to text her friend and than says"I want to smoke" So thinking I blew it I start damage control with out being to weak looking saying, hey its a fair question and I'm just trying to get to know you" Mind you she hasnt let on to being a prosti yet but I'm getting to think she is by the attitude and other small details.

Long story short, she offered no signs of actually liking me aside from sitting with me and I really just wanted to say,"ok lets cut the shit, you want 600 grivnha or what?" but I didn't have any obvious clue that I should break character. I had told her my job and that I wanted to spend my last day in Kiev with her tomorrow and all she kept saying was "maybe I'm very busy tomorrow" So I'm thinking WTF and she keeps saying she wants to go to the maldives with me? But not lunch? So finally I see the waitress drop off a pack of cigs, I have no money and I tell her she has to pay for that and then the beast comes out,"oh you don't have any money? This is too much for you hahaha, I call my friend then, I like ukranian guy he pay all, hahah I don't like you, you ask question I don't like and you don't pay my things." I remind her I paid 400 already on her and that she should say thank you and not insult me and that maybe in her country its all cash but in america we use credit cards and its not my fault they don't accept it in this place, Also that she never asked if I would buy cigs for her. So we get in a mini battle about manners, and she insists my card was "out of money hahaha" and that I don't have much money, I say I could buy a car with that card and instead of shutting up she gets into"what type of car?" and seriously wants me to name drop cars I "could" buy. I keep it real and say oh who cares, maybe a toyota, she thinks this is ok and says "oh that is a good car" I laugh inside thinking. So in ukraine you must just have to brag and brag, spend 100 bucks up front on drinks and dinner, then if you blow enough smoke up their asses you can F them for free?

I say,"ok I'm going to go get my friend and borrow 30 grivnha so I can pay your smokes but I'm not happy with you or how you talk, you are very "bad educated" I come back 5 min later and magically she is gone and the bill was paid. I see her downstairs and she is already talking with some arabic guy of all people (how did he get in?) iI interrupt and send him on his way and say "oh I went back and didn't see you" she looked at me for a long 5 seconds. Grabbed her purse and went off in the direction of said oil sheek.

Side note, the night before two 9's came up to me all smiley and wanting to know where I was from, I am young looking (26 by all who meet me) but really nearer to 40, blond blue eyes in shape, so I get alot of looks here, they can tell I'm foreign. So these two 9's ask for drinks after 5 min and when I say ok and turn to buy them, hey are off talking to others and then slowly drift away as I wait for their drinks. Drinks arrive, they are out of sight. Again WTF?

Another girl, a 9 easy, I approached by tapping her shoulder since the music was extremely loud, she says" I don't like when men touch me" I say oh so you must not have a boyfriend then either, she actually smiled at that but then went back to * mode and said, I don't want to talk to you" I tried once more to no avail. This was the second time that happened to me, I barely tap a girl on the outer shoulder and BOOM, its over.

SO wrap up, I pick 9's only, true 9's not made up 28 year olds who have had kids, but young hot white w nice skin, and thin and I'm a guy whos lived in brasil for a year and know what a true hotty looks like. So maybe its the level but so far I really don't get it here. Granted I had only two nights but It seems the girls here are very cutthroat and basically stupid. Can't any guy just say hes rich? I'm not against buying a drink even though I would never do this in the US, I know its a different culture but why ask for a drink and bail? Why get so bent if you are a semi pro when I ask about your work and don't buy 3 dollar cigarettes after 60 dollars in food and drink?

Is this just a bad start or am I playing the game wrong? I thought the soft sell was best. I never walk up and go "hey you, you want to F me? I pay you X amount"

Comments=+1Mate.

Similar experience in Ukraine. Girls seem to be dumb and ADD. Ungrateful cunts. Even teenage mothers with no future demanding too much! Reminds me of USA.

[Il Duca]

So I am confused.

This guys says "she orders two more virgin drinks along with a sushi plate and it was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet"

300 grivna = $40.

How do you setout to get some 9 quality rated pu*why with only $40 bucks in your pocket.


Ok so I usually don't post much but here's my take on Kiev. First I'm at lybid hotel 70 buck, run down a bit girl friendly before 9pm. I went to dlux, (very posch) caribian club (small nice for dancing) buddha bar, (nicer than even dlux) vodka bar (non-pros, young crowd, loud music bar, good) and finally SHOOTERS, which I haven't seen reported yet on the forum.

So shooters is for a well dressed young to old crowd, the old being men with money. A tough face control at the door, my arabic "friends" (I'm white) got shut out twice in a a row and I almost did, and I saw others get the negative too. I just didn't bring a sport coat or dress shoes on this trip. Shooters was nice, crowded and had hot women all 7-10 non and semi pros, probably pros too but its not a structured pro place at all.

ANyway here's the meat of the story. I meet a 9 that looks like jennifer conelly when she was 19 (old actress) and begin the process. She likes me and says she wants a virgin mojito, ok no biggie after 5 min but I buy it, then after 15 min she says lets go upstairs for sushi, I think ok she may be trying to get over on me but I also think this is the way it is here and there is no way around it.

We sit and eat and she orders two more virgin drinks along with a sushi plate and it was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet (it was my 4rth place that night) and they don't take amex so. Whew.

And now the fun begins, I was playing it as a non-pro freebee- she said she studies law so I say do you work also, she says no and I say so how do you pay for school and living, thinking I'd get a sad story and then I could say "oh maybe I could help you with that," but instead she becomes offended and says she doesn't like the question. She begins to text her friend and than says"I want to smoke" So thinking I blew it I start damage control with out being to weak looking saying, hey its a fair question and I'm just trying to get to know you" Mind you she hasnt let on to being a prosti yet but I'm getting to think she is by the attitude and other small details.

Long story short, she offered no signs of actually liking me aside from sitting with me and I really just wanted to say,"ok lets cut the shit, you want 600 grivnha or what?" but I didn't have any obvious clue that I should break character. I had told her my job and that I wanted to spend my last day in Kiev with her tomorrow and all she kept saying was "maybe I'm very busy tomorrow" So I'm thinking WTF and she keeps saying she wants to go to the maldives with me? But not lunch? So finally I see the waitress drop off a pack of cigs, I have no money and I tell her she has to pay for that and then the beast comes out,"oh you don't have any money? This is too much for you hahaha, I call my friend then, I like ukranian guy he pay all, hahah I don't like you, you ask question I don't like and you don't pay my things." I remind her I paid 400 already on her and that she should say thank you and not insult me and that maybe in her country its all cash but in america we use credit cards and its not my fault they don't accept it in this place, Also that she never asked if I would buy cigs for her. So we get in a mini battle about manners, and she insists my card was "out of money hahaha" and that I don't have much money, I say I could buy a car with that card and instead of shutting up she gets into"what type of car?" and seriously wants me to name drop cars I "could" buy. I keep it real and say oh who cares, maybe a toyota, she thinks this is ok and says "oh that is a good car" I laugh inside thinking. So in ukraine you must just have to brag and brag, spend 100 bucks up front on drinks and dinner, then if you blow enough smoke up their asses you can F them for free?

I say,"ok I'm going to go get my friend and borrow 30 grivnha so I can pay your smokes but I'm not happy with you or how you talk, you are very "bad educated" I come back 5 min later and magically she is gone and the bill was paid. I see her downstairs and she is already talking with some arabic guy of all people (how did he get in?) iI interrupt and send him on his way and say "oh I went back and didn't see you" she looked at me for a long 5 seconds. Grabbed her purse and went off in the direction of said oil sheek.

Side note, the night before two 9's came up to me all smiley and wanting to know where I was from, I am young looking (26 by all who meet me) but really nearer to 40, blond blue eyes in shape, so I get alot of looks here, they can tell I'm foreign. So these two 9's ask for drinks after 5 min and when I say ok and turn to buy them, hey are off talking to others and then slowly drift away as I wait for their drinks. Drinks arrive, they are out of sight. Again WTF?

Another girl, a 9 easy, I approached by tapping her shoulder since the music was extremely loud, she says" I don't like when men touch me" I say oh so you must not have a boyfriend then either, she actually smiled at that but then went back to * mode and said, I don't want to talk to you" I tried once more to no avail. This was the second time that happened to me, I barely tap a girl on the outer shoulder and BOOM, its over.

SO wrap up, I pick 9's only, true 9's not made up 28 year olds who have had kids, but young hot white w nice skin, and thin and I'm a guy whos lived in brasil for a year and know what a true hotty looks like. So maybe its the level but so far I really don't get it here. Granted I had only two nights but It seems the girls here are very cutthroat and basically stupid. Can't any guy just say hes rich? I'm not against buying a drink even though I would never do this in the US, I know its a different culture but why ask for a drink and bail? Why get so bent if you are a semi pro when I ask about your work and don't buy 3 dollar cigarettes after 60 dollars in food and drink?

Is this just a bad start or am I playing the game wrong? I thought the soft sell was best. I never walk up and go "hey you, you want to F me? I pay you X amount"

Comments

[Il Duca]

http://www.donezk-dreams.com/

Given all we know about Kiev, these seems like a scam.

[Malakai]

Will be in Kiev solo, my buddy pulled out due to stock market.

[Prosal]

a 9 that looks like jennifer conelly when she was 19Too bad you didn't score her. A younger and sexier J. Connely must be something to behold. I'm a sucker for this kind of look!


I'm a guy whos lived in brasil for a yearBrasilian women and slavic women are fundamentally different. You can score a brasiliera just by being "nice". A slavic woman, not so."Mr Nice Guy" is the most notoriously ineffective tactic with them. To score Slavic women, you have to enter into Slavic women psyche, and with all due respect, you obviously haven't understood yet the Russian (or Ukrainian for that matter) mentality. They are wild. They are passionate. They want to be played with. They want to be dominated. They expect a man to be manly, direct, mischevious, unompromising, unpredictable and exciting. And keep in mind that Slavic women are notorious for testing the boundaries of controlling men, but it's all up to you to remind them that you are the boss. In fact that is what they expect from you. To dominate them. To play with them. The behaviour of a typical "nice" western guy is not a behaviour they understand or respect. IMO (and I hope without offending you) you obviously adopted the wrong "nice" behavior with Jennifer.

A question: do you drink? Remember that most slavic women drink like Cossaks and when it comes to party, expect a guy to be correspondingly heavy drinking. In clubs, they don't want a nice talk. They have wild partying on their minds, and look for similarly well-appointed, heavy drinking and generous men with the right "look" and "game" to provide the drinks and company to get the job done. At you to fit in and keep up.

[Prosal]

I bet that that if you stop trying to impress these girls and just focus on partying and having fun with others like minded, the females will be impressed and will start to want your attention.+1. This is also my strategy. Obviously having a good time, drinking cocktails and enjoying myself as if I didn't have a care in the world. Ignoring most every girl in the place. Aloofness. Sooner or later you'll get attention. I can't count the times when in a FSU club, standing at the bar, a girl came and said me "You look mysterious, I had to talk to you". This is an effective tactic especially with the hottest girls, the kind who are used to getting hit on 50 times a night and rejecting all 50. Giving the girl the flattering impression that SHE scored a player. Girls like "Byronic" characters, or to reffer to Russian culture, modern Petchorins (A hero of our Time by Lermontov).

[Johnny204]

Hey guys, Noticed some of you are looking for apartments around Kiev right now. Found a good place near the main square at this site: http://www.ukr-apartments.kiev.ua/

They speak english and will hook you up with a place. They'll usually ask to call you back, sometimes you have to remind them a couple times, but my place is a pretty good deal. 80 us for 1 bed. 1 pull out couch, a small office area, kitchen area, and patio. Much bigger than I expected, and within walking distance of Vodka Bar and Buddah Bar.

In fact if anyone needs a couch to crash on or wants to meet up in Kiev let me know! I'll be here for the weekend, maybe even next week too.

So far I've been to Vodka Bar twice, Shooters once, Taboo Lounge and no cabarets. I"ll probably hit a cabaret or strip club soon to check it out, and then report back about each of the places, differences etc.

Haven't yet mongered successfully, was mostly going for freebies, but I'll be whipping out the wallet soon.

[Malakai]

Hey guys, Noticed some of you are looking for apartments around Kiev right now. Found a good place near the main square at this site:

http://www.ukr-apartments.kiev.ua/Anyone rented from here: http://kiev-rooms.com/

[Curious12]

So I am confused.

This guys says "she orders two more virgin drinks along with a sushi plate and it was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet"

300 grivna = $40.

How do you setout to get some 9 quality rated pu*why with only $40 bucks in your pocket.It was his fourth place that night, that's probably the main reason.

"It was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet (it was my 4rth place that night)."

[Curious12]

I have no money and I tell her she has to pay for that and then the beast comes out,"oh you don't have any money? This is too much for you hahaha, I call my friend then, I like ukranian guy he pay all, hahah I don't like you, you ask question I don't like and you don't pay my things." I remind her I paid 400 already on her and that she should say thank you and not insult me and that maybe in her country its all cash but in america we use credit cards and its not my fault they don't accept it in this place, Also that she never asked if I would buy cigs for her. So we get in a mini battle about manners, and she insists my card was "out of money hahaha" and that I don't have much money, I say I could buy a car with that card and instead of shutting up she gets into"what type of car?" and seriously wants me to name drop cars I "could" buy. I keep it real and say oh who cares, maybe a toyota, she thinks this is ok and says "oh that is a good car"In Ukraine they do not understand how credit cards work. They only know about prepaid credit cards. That's why she wanted to know about the car. They don't understand that you apply for a credit card, bank checks your credit history, approves your card, gives you credit and then once you receive your statement, you pay off the balance.

[AColonizer]

I can't read everything of this report (and the Barba's one) carefully because I see our common experiences of "human being" running in front of my eyes.

Yes, that is the situation about the female world and the Eastern female. Now it is clear the reason I define them as females, and not as women, because they behave exactly as a biologic machine: when the social / economic situation is not good, their target is a Cock and a family (stability) for their Children (double C) , when the social / economic situation is good, their target is to cheat as much as possible to get Cash as much as possible (triple C).

It doesn't make sense to have any good feelings for them and much less sense to give money to them. The truth is what we, Western men, see in the real world, that is the opposite what Eastern people say.

First example: we clearly see a Slavic man with a Slavic woman at the restaurant (and they are not husband and wife) , Slavic man pays for his own bill and Slavic woman pays for her own bill, instead when there is a Western man with a Slavic woman at the restaurant, Slavic woman always would Western man pays for both.

Second example: Slavic man goes to a massage salon or a strip-club, it was usual in the past and it is not hard now to get some of the best sex (without condom) by young (or very young) women, instead we, Western men, go to to a massage salon or a strip-club, it is almost impossible to get sex by any price.

Third example: we, western men, make our best to be polite and caring, Eastern women understand we behave much more better their Slavic men but, in their opinion, the best deal is to suck the cock to their Slavic men and to suck the blood to Western men (do you still think they are not biologic machines?). The more Slavic man cheats her, and the more she likes him. The more Western man is caring of her, the more she ruins his life.

That is the problem. We need a solution. The solution is what we read by our best mongers: about a serious relationship, no feelings in any second, always cynicism, very few money; about P4P, much worse. I know that is horrible, but there is NOT any further solution!


Ok so I usually don't post much but here's my take on Kiev. First I'm at lybid hotel 70 buck, run down a bit girl friendly before 9pm. I went to dlux, (very posch) caribian club (small nice for dancing) buddha bar, (nicer than even dlux) vodka bar (non-pros, young crowd, loud music bar, good) and finally SHOOTERS, which I haven't seen reported yet on the forum.

Comments

[East Explorer]

Is this just a bad start or am I playing the game wrong? I thought the soft sell was best. I never walk up and go "hey you, you want to F me? I pay you X amount"

CommentsThis report reminds me of when I was for the first time in an FSU country 9 years ago. I had no clue about FSU girls and spoke just a few words of Russian. The only difference was that it was much easier to pick good looking freebies than it is now. I could just stay at the bar and girls would come and pull me to the dance floor. Those paradisiacal times are gone. (Especially in cities like Kiev, Moscow, SPB, Minsk or Riga)

Some years ago I had an interesting experience in Minsk with an expat who was working there. We went to a rather posh nightclub where we had booked a table. After a while we spot 2 girls at the bar and invite them to our table for some Champaign and cocktails (a brunette and a blonde, both 19 years, slim and tall). My friend is going for the blonde (as always) and has a great time with her. I take the brunette, but she seems to be rather spoiled and not interested into have a good time. So I go to the dance floor, and start to dance with some other cuties that were looking at our table. After some fun I return to our table to tell my friend that I will leave for another girl. My friend (who speaks perfectly Russian) is looking at me and then starts to shout with the brunette because she does not show enough respect me. He is telling her to change her behavior or to leave immediately our table. I was feeling kind of sorry for her, but my friend told me to relax. Guess what! After 5 minutes the brunette was hanging on my neck! After one hour we were together in my apartment!

That what Prosal is writing about FSU girls is absolutely right. If you are in an FSU country you have to reset your brain and forget everything you have learnt about (western) girls. In an FSU country you are the man and always have to prevail. She has to feel that she is always depending on you and never that you are depending on her. You can be nice to her but always rebuke her if she is not behaving according to your expectations. And if she does not agree, then to hell with her! There are many others girls who will be happy to meet you.

Of course this requires some experience in handling FSU girls. You have to show girls that you have an overwhelming self-esteem. You have to be able to interpret what girls think and want. And in my experience, if you speak some Russian, they will respect you much more.

[Guntherus]

http://www.donezk-dreams.com/

Given all we know about Kiev, these seems like a scam.They demand a down payment. That is the first hint of a scam. My advice to everyone: Refuse it, and then see what happens. RoBuz

[Hecker]

It is very common situation. They start asking for drinks, then sushi, then presents from shopping and then there is sex. So you had not even money to pass the sushi stage. Many westerners are ready to provide this all for them and they have done the same several times. If you start calculating money in Ukraine you are lost and better leave while you still have money. In no way you can calculate exact spending with a girl they constantly bring up more demands.

[Prosal]

You have to show girls that you have an overwhelming self-esteem.Right on the money. Never show uncertainty, and never let her doubt she is lucky to be with you.

[Sorbonne]

I thought this may be of interest to readers of this thread. Compare Ukraine with other FSU states. Smily.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14489883

[Johnny204]

Hey guys, went to Rio last night, after spending about 1000 uah on different girls in private dances to test them out, I tried to pull my favorite back. She spoke broken english, but was basically telling me it was closed and if I came back tomorrow she would come home with me. Not sure if she fully understood. However the club still definitely seemed to be open it was about 4am.

I'm going to go through the reports and try and figure out the strategy, but I've been striking out with freebies, and now at RIO.

Anyone have any girls I could email / call to hook up with in Kiev? Not sure if this is an appropriate question, but I've only got a couple more nights and this has been harder than I expected. In prague I just called a phone number, met up and had an amazing girl. Looks like I need more research.

[Stevie69]

Some recent comments might be better suited for the ""dating" Russian women" section, but that is okay. I read and contribute to the Kiev section mostly. As a preamble I might add that I live somewhere int he FSU, but I do not indulge in my own city, but I Kiev is one of my top vacation destinations (twice this year so far).

Anyway, yes,"Russian" women are a different breed. In North America they screw you when they divorce you; in FSU they get nothing from a divorce, so they screw you before, as much as possible, particularly if they are not interested in you. However, they are also very pragmatic about sex. I once had a St pet "girlfriends" (using the term loosely, of course) who one time we were out, got really upset with me because she was getting too out of control at a bar so I cut her off took her to our hotel room. Yet, when we got up to the room, after arguing and screaming for 5 minutes she unashamedly asked me to have sex with her, and proceeded to have angry, hard sex. Very pragmatic; what better way to change her mood, she figured!

About buying drinks for them, one thing I like about some real Russian women is that they like beer, not those expensive girly drinks. Of course, if they are trying to squeeze money out of you they will ask for the girly drinks. Anyway, I never offer to buy drinks until they have talked to me for at least 5 minutes. Sometimes I even forgo approaching an empty-handed drink, which at least gives me a little time before buying a drink becomes an option. If they ASK for a drink I say either (1) that I would feel guilty if we have sex just because I got her drunk or (2) that a classy lady makes a man want to offer a drink, but never ASKS for one. Both lines are potential game enders, depending on how she reacts. If she react negatively, however, you really did not want her.

Another useful strategy (with a girl you do not know well) is to always order yourself. Whether at a bar or a restaurant, ask her what she wants, tell her to show it to you in the menu, and then order it yourself. Not only does it save you money, but it shows that YOU are dominant and it is YOUR money. THe girl might be less tempted to order the 20 USD drink just to screw you, and might be a little disappointed, but she will respect you for taking control and being dominant. The girl will try to order directly from the waitress, and the waitress will try to talk to the girl, so you have to be forceful with both. Make it clear to both that you pay only for what YOU order.

About little supermodels, in their minds, they hate being ignored, but they hate even more being the source of amusement. Sometimes, I pretend not to notice them, and they will pretend not to see me either, to the point of physically bumping into me to get my attention. When I do look, I usually give them a an admiring yet amused look, which says "yes, you look good, but really, it is funny that you would need to dress like that, and act like such a little *****". And when they dance for you, look and appreciate, wait until they finish, and go talk to them. Thank them for dancing so beautifully, and yes, perhaps offer a drink as a refreshment before the 5 minute mark if she agrees to dance for you (or with you) again.

Anyway, I just wanted to concur that FSU women are strange for "western" standards in that, at first, do not really appreciate men who respect and care for them. You have to play this game in which you act like a bit of an jerk. I think you always have to act as if you have plenty of other opportunities, so you can dismiss them without any problem, and that YOU are in control, not them.

[HunterDave]

Hey guys, went to Rio last night, after spending about 1000 uah on different girls in private dances to test them out, I tried to pull my favorite back. She spoke broken english, but was basically telling me it was closed and if I came back tomorrow she would come home with me. Not sure if she fully understood. However the club still definitely seemed to be open it was about 4am.

I'm going to go through the reports and try and figure out the strategy, but I've been striking out with freebies, and now at RIO.

Anyone have any girls I could email / call to hook up with in Kiev? Not sure if this is an appropriate question, but I've only got a couple more nights and this has been harder than I expected. In prague I just called a phone number, met up and had an amazing girl. Looks like I need more research.J,

Just PM'd you with some assistance.

Hunter

[Member #4274]

I thought this may be of interest to readers of this thread. Compare Ukraine with other FSU states. Smily.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14489883A very interesting read indeed. Thank you for posting this!

[Sorbonne]

My friends back in the US tells me there were a Dr. Phil show and a Nightline episode within the past few weeks on Americans who go to Ukraine to find wives. Has anybody seen these? I don't think I would welcome these media coverage too much.

OK, I just watched the latter at the ABC website. An episode called Internet Bride: From Ukraine with Love. Well-titled, at least.

But, LoveMe. com? That's an A Foreign Affair site. Where has Nightline been? Don't they know Mamba? LOL!

Anyway, I did find the episode interesting, in light of the posts here recently made by Prosal, Acolonizer, Eastern Traveler, etc. For example, how about this guy named Bob in the episode. If he were as aware of the Russian / Ukrainia female mentality as Prosal, maybe he played it differently.

[Prosal]

Some recent comments might be better suited for the ""dating" Russian women" sectionThere has been a discussion on this subject before, and some of us agreed (and some disagreeed) that Russian women and Ukrainian women were very different. Personaly, I find Russian women are more clever, cultured, intelligent and cosmopolitan than their Ukrainian cousins. And more emotional, much more emotional. More honest and loyal also, contrarily to Ukrainians who are rather calculating and sneaky. That said, this is subjective views, based on personal experiences. It sounds effectively strange that ethnically identical girls would be so different. Why would a girl living in Harkov be different of a girl living in Belgorod, that is only 50 miles away? I'd be curious to hear others opinions.

[Robreefer]

I know this a little off topic, especially for a first thread but I guess it's worth a try. I assure you I am an avid monger; however I have just discovered this site. I promise to deliver the goods later.

The question: do any of you know whether or not poker is legal in Kiev? If not, is anyone interested in getting a game together? I'm in Kuwait (military) and looking into different countries to visit for my 2 week vacation from the war. Right now it is between Ukraine, Czech and Dubai. I will be ending up in Germany eventually but looking for a 2-3 day stop over.

I love the site and all the information you guys provide!

Thanks,

Rob

[Jojosun]

I know this a little off topic, especially for a first thread but I guess it's worth a try. I assure you I am an avid monger; however I have just discovered this site. I promise to deliver the goods later.

The question: do any of you know whether or not poker is legal in Kiev? If not, is anyone interested in getting a game together? I'm in Kuwait (military) and looking into different countries to visit for my 2 week vacation from the war. Right now it is between Ukraine, Czech and Dubai. I will be ending up in Germany eventually but looking for a 2-3 day stop over.

I love the site and all the information you guys provide!

Thanks,

RobI assume that you are in the US Army based in Kuwait?

Hence my reply.

The answer is Yes. I did report 2 years ago on a new trend of Poker Clubs springing up in Kiev.

Ask the Barman in Kresc h atick Hotel in the centre next to Buddha Bar.

Give my regards to my cousin who is based there now?

[Malakai]

J,

Just PM'd you with some assistance.

HunterFrom your posts Hunter it sounds like you have the technique perfected. A how-to guide could be a good post for all.

[Prosal]

I thought this may be of interest to readers of this thread. Compare Ukraine with other FSU states. Smily.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14489883Cool link, thanks. My personal favorite place, Uzbekistan, is among the lower three FSU countries in term of GDP per capita, more than half as many compared to Ukraine.

[Bbilly]

It was nice to see all the interest in my post. After speaking with another member in person (Dtraveler) , I realized my mistake was in fact running out of money, had I just had another 20 bucks I could have seen the night through, but as I said I had little experience and was using plastic as the back up and I did go to 4 places that night.

Just to let you all know, I was "rebuking, being dominant, showing who was boss" thats why I was telling her off and explaining how she was ignorant about credit and insulting me by even questioning my funds. But the fact of the matter was I was out of money, I didn't man up and say "ok ok lets go back to my place and ill give you X-amount" I should have just done that seeing she was a ***** after all.

Someone mentioned the internet is better so which site? I tried mamba w little success. Also someone mentioned that minsk and spb and moscow Kiev are no good nowadays. So where then, tell me please. Ill go there next year, and is kharkov all its cracked up to be?

Next time ill bring better clothes and more "grana" when I go out. I know how to be the man but I just need to have the benjamins or whoever that chick is on the 200 ghrivna bill, and ill be alright I think, but again what site?

[AColonizer]

I agree with you absolutely! That is the bastard game! A game that works if any young woman in the surroundings is good for the man: I think Slavic men don't mind about any features of the woman they are in front of.

I would like to ask your opinion about two remarks:

- you bought champagne in Minsk. You usually buy champagne also in your own country?

- if a man is very selective about women, how can the bastard game work?


This report reminds me of when I was for the first time in an FSU country 9 years ago. I had no clue about FSU girls and spoke just a few words of Russian. The only difference was that it was much easier to pick good looking freebies than it is now. I could just stay at the bar and girls would come and pull me to the dance floor. Those paradisiacal times are gone. (Especially in cities like Kiev, Moscow, SPB, Minsk or Riga)

Some years ago I had an interesting experience in Minsk with an expat who was working there. We went to a rather posh nightclub where we had booked a table. After a while we spot 2 girls at the bar and invite them to our table for some Champaign and cocktails (a brunette and a blonde, both 19 years, slim and tall). My friend is going for the blonde (as always) and has a great time with her. I take the brunette, but she seems to be rather spoiled and not interested into have a good time. So I go to the dance floor, and start to dance with some other cuties that were looking at our table. After some fun I return to our table to tell my friend that I will leave for another girl. My friend (who speaks perfectly Russian) is looking at me and then starts to shout with the brunette because she does not show enough respect me. He is telling her to change her behavior or to leave immediately our table. I was feeling kind of sorry for her, but my friend told me to relax. Guess what! After 5 minutes the brunette was hanging on my neck! After one hour we were together in my apartment!

That what Prosal is writing about FSU girls is absolutely right. If you are in an FSU country you have to reset your brain and forget everything you have learnt about (western) girls. In an FSU country you are the man and always have to prevail. She has to feel that she is always depending on you and never that you are depending on her. You can be nice to her but always rebuke her if she is not behaving according to your expectations. And if she does not agree, then to hell with her! There are many others girls who will be happy to meet you.

Of course this requires some experience in handling FSU girls. You have to show girls that you have an overwhelming self-esteem. You have to be able to interpret what girls think and want. And in my experience, if you speak some Russian, they will respect you much more.

[Prosal]

Also someone mentioned that minsk and spb and moscow Kiev are no good nowadays. So where then, tell me please. Ill go there next year, and is kharkov all its cracked up to be?If your Russian sucks or is non-existent, you'll struggle to find non-pro opportunities in Harkov. Even everyday life might be difficult. You can survive quite easily in Kiev (or Piter and Moscow for that matter) with only English. But in provincial Ukraine, not so.

[Malakai]

Hi, I've recently joined this site after coming across it. I've read a lot of reports about Mamba, Rio, et al. Lots of testimonies of great finds on mamba and stories of 8-10 rated girls from Rio. But no one ever seems to share details of the girls they've met. No real mamba URLs. And it baffles me as to why. If these girls are truly great finds then share their pages so others can benefit. As for the 8-10+ rated girls, I understand a lot of girls would not want their photos taken, but looking through the photos linked to some postings and I've yet to see a photo of anything above a 3-5 rating.

As I am heading to Kiev this week I contacted a lot of girls on Mamba that looked pretty decent. Instantly most responded with prices & a number even though not requested. So I assume most girls on there are working. Would be interested to know if anyone has met any of these girls and whether they are genuine. Some have dual profiles with different photos, some are different girls with the same number. The prices are as they quoted in their replies.

Name English Price Number.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=626904476 Alika Yes $100

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675199915 Alochka No 700 38-068-258-47-55.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=672734318 Lena No 600 38-095-370-07-03.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671722251 Lena No 600 38-095-370-07-03.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675585346 Sasha No 800 38-068-258-47-80.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=669828041 Alina No 350 38-067-262-19-12.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=673739210 Helen Yes 600 38-093-606-50-51.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=670045652 Masha Yes $100

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671217169 Margot Yes 800

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671152871 Amina Yes

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=673451795 Liza Yes $100 38-093-022-41-78.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=655824157 Olya Yes 38-067-157-61-71.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=669979779 Jeanne Yes 800 38-063-573-67-93.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675609726 Sabrina Yes $80 38-067-283-36-36.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=581106127 Marina Yes $200 38-050-302-11-26.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675957115 Mika Yes 38-067-283-36-36

[Bootie26]

Hi, I've recently joined this site after coming across it. I've read a lot of reports about Mamba, Rio, et al. Lots of testimonies of great finds on mamba and stories of 8-10 rated girls from Rio. But no one ever seems to share details of the girls they've met. No real mamba URLs. And it baffles me as to why. If these girls are truly great finds then share their pages so others can benefit. As for the 8-10+ rated girls, I understand a lot of girls would not want their photos taken, but looking through the photos linked to some postings and I've yet to see a photo of anything above a 3-5 rating.

As I am heading to Kiev this week I contacted a lot of girls on Mamba that looked pretty decent. Instantly most responded with prices & a number even though not requested. So I assume most girls on there are working. Would be interested to know if anyone has met any of these girls and whether they are genuine. Some have dual profiles with different photos, some are different girls with the same number. The prices are as they quoted in their replies.

Name English Price Number.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=626904476

Alika Yes $100.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675199915

Alochka No 700 38-068-258-47-55.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=672734318

Lena No 600 38-095-370-07-03.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671722251

Lena No 600 38-095-370-07-03.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675585346

Sasha No 800 38-068-258-47-80.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=669828041

Alina No 350 38-067-262-19-12.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=673739210

Helen Yes 600 38-093-606-50-51.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=670045652

Masha Yes $100.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671217169

Margot Yes 800.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671152871

Amina Yes.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=673451795

Liza Yes $100 38-093-022-41-78.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=655824157

Olya Yes 38-067-157-61-71.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=669979779

Jeanne Yes 800 38-063-573-67-93.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675609726

Sabrina Yes $80 38-067-283-36-36.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=581106127

Marina Yes $200 38-050-302-11-26.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675957115

Mika Yes 38-067-283-36-36From my experience, VAST MAJORITY of any adult provider on the internet are using fake pictures. A combination of two things mainly:

1) it seems that most girls even if beautiful are too "reserved" to post their real pics on the internet.

2) the other portion would be belonging to agencies who are out there to scam newbie foreigners.

Mumba can be a gold mine for finding relatively cheap, amaturish and cute find. But I'm afraid they require quite a bit of hit and miss / time and effort.

In my opinion, you can surely check it out. But don't waste too much time on it. Girls that you can see in the flesh are all over the place and most of them if not straight up hookers are looking for some sponsorship arrangement with foreigners. They all know what brings you there, and it surely isn't visiting memorials and churches.

So they surely know what the deal is.

[East Explorer]

- you bought champagne in Minsk. You usually buy champagne also in your own country?

- if a man is very selective about women, how can the bastard game work?In an FSU country you can't go wrong with champagne. In western Europe I would rather take a beer.

Being a "Bastard" with girls is not necessarily something bad in an FSU country. It's basically all about been self confident and straightforward. Of course if you want to go for a 9 you need to have other attributes like appearance, style, charisma, humor or Russian language skills and be prepared to invest time and money.

[Nmlfree]

Going to share some Rio experiences since someone requested.

SOFIA.

I went out with here the 1st night. A very good looking blonde, around 1, 65-1, 70m. She's kind of flirty when dancing and will be the type which makes a lot of eye contact and smile (a lot of dancers are very cold and never give you a look ).

Since she was the hottest at that moment I decide to call her after seeing all the rotation of girls.

Claimed to be 20.

English (7/10)

At first conversation went smoothly. Of course when I say 7/10 I'm comparing it with other girls (a lot don't speak a word!) , so don't expect a fluid conversatoin. 7/10 means she will understand basic sentences and maybe a couple of jokes and can talk some phrases herself.

Face (9/10)

Beautiful blue eyes. When you get her close, you can see some imperfections on her skin but nothing gross.

Body (9/10)

Totally my type, nice tits, slim, nice ass.

Attitude (7/10)

After she's cool and smily, I'll give more details after.

Fuck (3/10)

She's kind of lazy and has really little interest in pleasing you. Despite going down on her, she would just do an average covered BJ, not put much effort when she's up on you. She's also kind of hard to please (I consider myself decent in bed and most women I'm with reach an orgasm, but this one was a tough nut to crack). She has a sensitive clitoris so if you go hard on clitoris she will complain and ask to slow down but if you go softly, she just won't show any sign of pleasure.

For those who still want to fuck her (because she's hot) , she seems to enjoy being fingered and pulling the back hair of her head.

When I requested doggy style, she said she didn't like that position and I'm stupid and didn't insist, should have banged her.

MARIA.

A beautiful 1. 70 brunette. Claimed to be 24. Told me she has been working there for a month.

English (6/10)

I'm not a native english speaker so she would say that she has a hard time understanding me. Despite that fact, I was able to communicate decently with her. If you speak slowly, she will understand most of it.

Face (8, 5/10)

Once again beautiful blue eyes and nice factions. Some little imperfections when close to her but she's pretty.

Body (8, 5/10)

Everything natural, she's not very tight but not fat either. I like her body. Tight pussy also.

Attitude (9/10)

She's a cool girl and fun to talk with.

Fuck (6, 5/10)

When I went down on her, she would put her hands in the way. I was like WTF in my head. I just gently grab her hands and put them away, she wouldn't resist it and enjoy it. Afterwards, I asked her why would she do that.

She said " I don't know, I've been working in this for little time, shouldn't you wear a condom for your tongue?", I loled inside even she actually has a point. I just told her " nah, don't worry. Oral sex has very few risk, and the risk on me" which is not actually true but this way she would just stop worrying and focus in enjoying. After that you can imagine that her blowjob was with condom of course LOL tough she did a little bit of balls licking. I cum (her BJ was nothing spectacular to be honest, but I hadn't have sex nor wanked in 3 days) and then we proceed to fuck again after a while. She was cool, put some enthusiasm and ended up doggy style which is her favorite position.

So I give 6, 5 cause no girl for me will exceed 7 for me without a BBBJ, but overall was a decent fuck.

MARGARITA

I noticed her the same night I went out with Maria. She's a tall stunning brunette. Claims to be 19.

English (4/10)

She speaks some, but for her to understand you, you have to speak veeery slowly, and she keeps you saying things in Russian which I find annoying. However she's amused by the fact that you find it annoying LOL.

Face (10/10)

I never tought I'll give a 10/10 as I'm very picky but she really deserves it. Usually when you get close to the girls, they look less good and you notice the imperfections. With her it was the contrary : she looks even better and you just notice how perfect she is.

Beautiful factions, teeth, eyes, nose, everything. And a super charming smile. Probably one of the most beautiful girls I've been close to in my life.

Body (8, 5/10)

I actually haven't fucked her since she unfortunately doesn't go out for sex. You can see her dancing at the VIP section (never saw her outside despite she told me she actually does). She has a well proportioned body with normal sized boobs, and a nice ass.

When I asked her if she had tought about modeling, she said she was too fat LOL. Of course she's not fat at all, but maybe she's right that if she was closer to be anorexic, she could be working as a model. Her ass seems tight but altough being good looking, don't expect a stunning ass brazilian style.

Also I'm not much into very tall girls so maybe someone would give her a better score.

Attitude (8/10)

She's fun and smiles a lot but language is a barrier. Also she wouldn't be that comfortable with much touching as with the 2 others girls, but that's normal since she's just a dancer and doesn't actually have sex.

Anyway she asks me gently to not massage her neck, but you can still touch her or grab her, she's not bitchy at all. It's just I'm a horny guy and I kind of like to kiss necks or get close to women and she's not the perfect one to do that.

Fuck

No fuck possible, at least w me.

So if you're into private dances (which I hate and don't do) and tall girls, you might try her as I think you will agree w me she's by far the most beautiful girl in the club although you might find she doesn't have the best body.

-

I would appreciate if someone would indicate me good BBBJ's experiences in or outside Rio.

Cheers,

[LilJoey]

Hi, I've recently joined this site after coming across it. I've read a lot of reports about Mamba, Rio, et al. Lots of testimonies of great finds on mamba and stories of 8-10 rated girls from Rio. But no one ever seems to share details of the girls they've met. No real mamba URLs. And it baffles me as to why. If these girls are truly great finds then share their pages so others can benefit. As for the 8-10+ rated girls, I understand a lot of girls would not want their photos taken, but looking through the photos linked to some postings and I've yet to see a photo of anything above a 3-5 rating.

As I am heading to Kiev this week I contacted a lot of girls on Mamba that looked pretty decent. Instantly most responded with prices & a number even though not requested. So I assume most girls on there are working. Would be interested to know if anyone has met any of these girls and whether they are genuine. Some have dual profiles with different photos, some are different girls with the same number. The prices are as they quoted in their replies.

Name English Price Number.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=626904476

Alika Yes $100.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675199915

Alochka No 700 38-068-258-47-55.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=672734318

Lena No 600 38-095-370-07-03.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671722251

Lena No 600 38-095-370-07-03.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675585346

Sasha No 800 38-068-258-47-80.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=669828041

Alina No 350 38-067-262-19-12.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=673739210

Helen Yes 600 38-093-606-50-51.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=670045652

Masha Yes $100.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671217169

Margot Yes 800.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671152871

Amina Yes.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=673451795

Liza Yes $100 38-093-022-41-78.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=655824157

Olya Yes 38-067-157-61-71.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=669979779

Jeanne Yes 800 38-063-573-67-93.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675609726

Sabrina Yes $80 38-067-283-36-36.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=581106127

Marina Yes $200 38-050-302-11-26.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675957115

Mika Yes 38-067-283-36-36Malakai, I wanted to respond to you, because I see that you have made some effort investigating things, are trying to contribute something, and you are not just being lazy to ask for spoon fed assistance without lifting a finger to read the forum and learn the information already posted there previously thru significant investment of effort and time by writers on this thread.

Your desire to systematize the links to girls on mamba. Ru in order to make it easier for mongers to know who the good ones are, and so as to be able to comment on each of them for the benefit of others, is admirable. Having a girl database upon which to draw for reliable results to have cheap but fabulous sex with beautiful young Ukrainian hotties is a monger's utopian dream.

SHIFTING SANDS: Unfortunately, the girls and agencies using "bait and switch" tactics on mamba. Ru, who are doing so for the express purposes of deceiving the mongers perusing the ads, have anticipated your desire and have long since taken steps to prevent us from figuring out who's who and what's what on mamba. Ru. Remember that a cheat can only be as successful as the confusion surrounding her ruse is. So to confound your efforts at sorting out the truth on mamba. Ru, the individual girls and the agencies advertising on mamba. Ru employ tactics like posting multiple simultaneous profiles as well as frequently deleting profiles. It is easy for them to do this because the profiles do not need to bear any real relation to the girls which will come to your doorstep because the ads are in most cases using fake pictures. Because of this dedicated attempt to create the confusion that helps obscure the "bait and switch" girls from exposure, it would be a very challenging task to keep up with the constant changes, as well as figure out which new profile can be related to the previous profile of the same girl so that the comments about her can follow her for the benefit of the monger community's information. The ads on mamba. Ru are therefore shifting sands, and I have come to the conclusion that, regrettably, it is folly to try to build an accurate and up-to-date data base or listing to guide the monger community as to who can be reliably chosen on that internet site.

The only hope we might have had of creating some order out of the confusion would require an immense amount of cooperation amongst us, the monger community, and a willingness to share, in a concerted effort to bypass the internet ads, by obtaining the personal email addresses and / or phone numbers of the actual girls we have seen which were pretty and provided good services along with our comments, and to gather them and post them on a thread on this forum, or to create a separate website with such information databased there, offering free ads there to the good girls that we found. I doubt this is achievable because it would require a coordinator from amongst us to take up the project, which is lacking given that the idea has been floated before, with no takers, and more importantly the EE mentality of those posting on mamba. Ru, is probably not capable of grasping the concept that good advertising and providing a good service are a better recipe for capitalistic success than the screw-the-foreigner mentality that inspires the bait and switch business model now employed.

So what you are left with, dear fellow monger, is the current situation, where each monger must start from the beginning and re-invent the wheel. You will need to simply put in your own time, as we all have, and try your best to efficiently go through meeting with as many of the girls from ads that appear promising to you, (that actually respond to you when you arrive in Kiev and try to contact them) , and then send away the girls who show up that aren't good looking enough, until someone that you consider worthwhile finally shows up at your door. Yes, there will be a collosal waste of time. But that's the situation with using internet sites in Kiev.

QUESTION: So what is the reason to go thru all this waste of time?

ANSWERS:

1) DAYTIME ACTIVITIES IN KIEV:

-Well, for one thing, a reason to pursue options on mamba. Ru is that, during the daytime, the options of the nightclubs like D'lux, Buddha Bar, Arena, Shooters and all the others, as well as the strip clubs like Rio are not available, as they are not yet open for business. Rio opens at 8pm. Therefore, for daytime exploits why not use your time in Kiev for investigating girls from mamba. Ru?

-You should also consider trying top-modals. Com, a website that I have gotten girls who posted real pictures from in 2010 (I don't know the current status, but it's worth a try at least as much as mamba. Ru) , and for this reason I think it might be different from the rest of the internet websites in that there may be real picture girls advertising there.

-You can also try going to girl apartments during the daytime.

[Note: I have written in prior posts about the recommendation of bringing along a prepared list of questions and answers in Russian / English printed out to assist you in communication with the girl or manager concerning services, times and prices, since this way so you can simply point to the question and the responder can point to the answer. And the suggestion is to get to these apartments by asking a taxi driver if they knew where the girl apartments were and, for security purposes, hiring them to take you and stay with you until you found what you were looking for, and / or perhaps taking the girl back to your apartment if take out is allowed. There was a cautionary note posted some time back about some taxi drivers saying they were afraid to do this because police making a bust at some apartments and arresting some taxi drivers. I do not know the outcome or current status of this issue, because I have not been back in Kiev since I heard of it. But for caution sake, for anyone wanting to try girls in apartments where Ukrainian guys go, you should at least make some inquiries of several taxi drivers to see if there is any perception of danger amongst them. ]

-Alternatively, during the daytime you can wander the malls, shops and streets trying to pick up girls that you see with your own eyes meet your approval as to their level of good looks.

2) COST CONSIDERATIONS:

-A further reason to try your hand at finding some decent girls on mamba. Ru, as well as top-modals. Com, is that they are websites where the prices for girls are in many cases quite low. Girls are advertising hourly rates like 400 UAH ($50 USD), 600 UAH ($75 USD) and 800 UAH ($100 USD). So if you require or desire to have inexpensive costs for p4p during your visit to Kiev, then websites like mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com are indispensable for such efforts. The price is advertised and therefore is known for certain in advance, while the girl's appearance is the unknown factor.

-The exact opposite is the case regarding trying to find girls in the streets, shops and malls, where the girl's appearance is the known factor, but her price, if any, is the unknown. And you also don't know if she is a girl who is interested in p4p at all. With these uncertainties, and the fact that you surely don't want to get your face slapped, or worse, by propositioning the wrong girl, it is best to pursue such girls from the streets and shops as freebies, and wait for them to raise the issue of price. But of course you will not be able to know what kind of price will be demanded at the end in this way, after significant investment of time, but this is the necessary uncertainty in pursuing this course. You will have to be prepared to pony up the amount demanded if you want the girl, and she may ask for more than $100 USD per hour. Therefore, this is not the best way of efficiently obtaining low cost (under $100 USD) p4p as a guaranteed result, so if low cost is a crucial factor to you, you might prefer trying your luck on mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com where the price is fixed in advanced.

-A girl apartment is an option where both the price is known in advance, and the girl's appearance is known in advance. The only unknown factor is the girl's services and performance, but since that is an unknown factor for all the options of finding p4p girls, it is not a factor in recommending a particular way of finding p4p over another way.

HOW TO HANDLE YOURSELF IN DEALING WITH THE BAIT AND SWITCH ISSUE:

One monger suggested in a prior post some months back that we should fight fire with fire and that because too often ugly girls who spoke no English were showing up at his apartment in response to internet ads depicting pretty, sexy English-speaking girls, that in order to lessen the waste of his time, he felt it was fair to make simultaneous dates for several girls to show up at the same time, with the intention that if any of them was good, he would take her and send the rest packing. Sounds reasonable in light of the contempt for us displayed by the bait and switch agencies routinely sending ugly girls in response to ads for pretty girls. In this way you might cut down some of the time delay and waste by girls coming late and then finally an ugly girl shows up. But you might get more than one hot girl showing up at the same time. Lucky you! Can your dick handle the challenge if they both want to stay___LOL?

The other issue was whether to pay the taxi fare of the girls who were ugly and were being rejected and sent away. Various opinions have been stated on this forum, but to me it seems that if you want the agencies to continue sending girls for you to consider, that you should pay the taxi fare for a local ride (realize that if they ask for more than 50 UAH for taxi fare, its likely an attempt to scam you, as that should be enough to get to most places in the downtown Kiev they might be coming from. If they're coming from further away, they should've sent a more appealing girl, and the risk should be theirs). The decision of whether to pay taxi fare for a girl being rejected and sent away based upon her lack of good looks, should be a factor of how extreme a departure the girl who shows up at the door is, from the pretty girl in the ad. If the girl is very ugly or unappealing and is clearly a very large departure from the pretty girl in the ad, one might consider not paying the taxi fare, because whoever sent the girl displayed complete contempt for you as the customer in sending such a girl, knowing what your expectation was in light of the appearance of the girl in the ad they posted to which you responded. But realize that if you send away many girls and fail to pay taxi fare, that you will probably be blacklisted by that agency and they will not send to you girls anymore. It's probably better to call the number and demand to speak to the manager of the agency and have some "real" talk about cutting out the bullshit and stop sending ugly girls when you want a girl like the girl in their picture ad, and ask if they will send immediately their best 3 or 4 girls in a car for you to choose from. Maybe you will get some action and they will take you more seriously.

NIGHT OPTIONS:

Considering the situation, it is probably best for your nightime exploits to shift your focus away from mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com and direct your attention to the nightclubs or strip clubs, especially if you prize the possibility of bedding girls of very high level of good looks in the 8 to 10 range, unless you have a limitation as to cost for your p4p and must stay in the under $100 USD range. The uber-hotties in the nightclubs have been asking for $300 or $400 for an hour of their time, and perhaps some can be negotiated down to $200 USD / hr. Possibly the less spectacular looking girls can be had for less.

However, in the nightclubs there is also a lot of time waste, if you're looking for p4p, because one has to first figure out who are the p4p girls, versus the regular girls out for fun. I have tried Buddha Bar and D'lux and have not seen very many p4p girls there at the times of my vists, but other writers on this forum have written about a significant p4p presence. I don't know how much is wishful thinking and their imagination and how much is reality because I can't confirm it from personal experience which would at least include a conversation in which p4p cost was mentioned by the girl, but it stands to reason that all the River Palace girls must be going somewhere in Kiev to meet their customers, unless the rumors of most of them going to Moscow to work at places like Night Flight are true.

I think that the prices for p4p in the nightclubs are too high at even $200 USD / hour. If you're ready to pay such high prices for a very beautiful Ukraininan hottie you might meet in a nightclub, you might also consider all the internet websites with prices like 150 Euro to 200 Euro per hour and the like. It is an unknown because such prices are advocated by no one on this thread, but there may be a higher chance of encountering beautiful girls from internet escort sites charging $200 USD and higher than you can expect on mamba. Ru where the prices are much lower. But this can be an entirely erroneous assumption. The premise is untested and therefore is an unknown.

For these reasons I prefer the p4p possibilities available in the Rio strip club, because there it's like shooting fish in a barrel, the girls are all collected there for me to see and pick. I don't have to chase all over a nightclub. I can ask openly if a girl wants p4p and will go out of club with me with no untoward consequences. I can see the girl in advance and fool around with her in advance in a private dance. The price is controlled and fixed at a $100 USD / hour rate, although you must take at least three such hours minimum. And there are a decent number of girls in the 8, 9 or 10 range to choose from.

I have also had some luck with girls from vodkaescort.com which has some girls available for 3 hours at around $300 USD or 200 Euro, and the pics were true, although photoshopped. I have been with Julia, Inna and Alina, and all three were nice girls, sexy and pretty and I had a great time. I have never used Gia.com, which has true pics also, because I never found a girl on that site that I felt was appealing enough to justify their $180 USD/hr rate..

Other viewpoints: Some veterans have opined that since there is no way to know in advance if a Rio girl will give good GFE service and $300 is at risk, that maybe it's better to risk only $100 USD on a girl from mamba. Ru or elsewhere who admittedly also may or may not give good service, but then one lost only $100. Also one can have three girls at $100 versus only one chance for a GFE with a Rio girl for $300.

My opinion is that I value quality over quantity. I am not interested in three girls from mamba. Ru or the street where the likelihood of me meeting a beauty on the level of a 9 or 10 for $100 or less is next to impossible. To me the higher level of beauty that I can see and obtain in a date with a Rio girl outweighs all the bullshit I have to go thru to even get a mediocre girl on mamba. Ru. The efficiency with which I can vet and select a girl from Rio makes it a much prefereble method than trying to find girls on the street who I don't even know if they are interested in p4p and the process will take too long. To date I have not had a date with a Rio girl that I have not been happy with, although some girls have been much better than others, all have been adequate. Perhaps I have been lucky, or perhaps I have a good knack for picking the girls who have a good chemistry with me, and the skills to establish a wonderful repoire with the girls that inspires them to treat me nice. Whatever. It works for me. And I'm not crying at the risk of $300, because at this point I don't regard it as a risk, but rather as a challenge to my girl skills. If you can be satisfied with a more average type of nice looking girl, then maybe you can focus on the mamba. Ru method. If that was all I could expect from Kiev, I wouldn't bother with Kiev, and would certainly prefer the FKK clubs of Frankfurt, or the offerings of Vienna or Prague. For me, it is only the prospect of that most lovely creature, the classic 9 or 10 level beauty from Kiev, that outshines the hotties at the FKK's, and who is available at the low rate of $100 / hr, that draws me back here time and time again. And yes, at Rio, I don't even look at the girls who are not 8's. 9's or 10's.

FREEBIES:

The only thing sweeter than p4p with a Kiev 9 or 10 level beauty, is getting it for free. But that takes time to pursue, and I'm only in Kiev for a weekend of two or three nights at a time, so I don't bother with that. But for those that have the time, it is certainly a worthy pursuit to try to bed a 9 or 10 level Kiev beauty for free.

So if you are not interested in p4p, but rather you are interested in freebies, that is the reason to head out to the nightclubs at night and try your hand at that pursuit. Or look for your beauty at the shops and malls during the shopping hours. But you had better have game and style and ample money to achieve results on that level.

On this topic there has been much advice written on this thread on how to get the hottest girls in Kiev for free. You must dress to impress, have game and style and all the things you need to pick up and succeed with beautiful women in your own country of origin. You must project an image of wealth and power, be confident, humorous, speak Russian, and be good looking.

And now, from the most recent reports on this thread we learn some additional tidbits that are requirements to succeed with the peculiar mentality of the Eastern European woman from Ukraine or Russia. You must be a bastard, and a bad boy, able to dominate the EE woman and control her, as she wants to be controlled and dominated. No wussy Mr. Nice Guy, or she will eat you alive and spit you out and go on to the next guy. Sounds real wonderful, doesn't she? The ultimate user. But that's the diagnosis of the experts here on the forum of the EE woman that we're all running after, because of how hot her ass is. Well, to be honest, a description of us, with our monger intentions of just fucking our way through foreign countries like Conan the Barbarian, wouldn't sound too pretty either. We deserve each other, the EE woman and the monger. A match made in. ___well I won't finish the phrase because, well, you know.

And the best piece of advice I recently read on this thread, is how to get the hottest girls for free in any club. It's truly priceless:


About little supermodels, in their minds, they hate being ignored, but they hate even more being the source of amusement. Sometimes, I pretend not to notice them, and they will pretend not to see me either, to the point of physically bumping into me to get my attention. When I do look, I usually give them a an admiring yet amused look, which says "yes, you look good, but really, it is funny that you would need to dress like that, and act like such a little *****". And when they dance for you, look and appreciate, wait until they finish, and go talk to them. Thank them for dancing so beautifully, and yes, perhaps offer a drink as a refreshment before the 5 minute mark if she agrees to dance for you (or with you) again. Anyway, I just wanted to concur that FSU women are strange for "western" standards in that, at first, do not really appreciate men who respect and care for them. You have to play this game in which you act like a bit of an jerk. I think you always have to act as if you have plenty of other opportunities, so you can dismiss them without any problem, and that YOU are in control, not them.

And then there was this gem:


+1. This is also my strategy. Obviously having a good time, drinking cocktails and enjoying myself as if I didn't have a care in the world. Ignoring most every girl in the place. Aloofness. Sooner or later you'll get attention. I can't count the times when in a FSU club, standing at the bar, a girl came and said me "You look mysterious, I had to talk to you". This is an effective tactic especially with the hottest girls, the kind who are used to getting hit on 50 times a night and rejecting all 50. Giving the girl the flattering impression that SHE scored a player. Girls like "Byronic" characters, or to reffer to Russian culture, modern Petchorins (A hero of our Time by Lermontov).

And there you have it from the experts! The way to score the hottest supermodels in a Kiev nightclub is to conspicuously ignore them!

Then they will come to physically bump into you to get noticed by you.

Of course, if your ignoring of the supermodels, gets ignored by them, and you go home emptyhanded, ___ well it probably must be because you're more of a dork than you thought. __LOL.

LJ.

[Robreefer]

Very informative Joey, thanks! I wish this forum had a sticky feature (like many other forums) so we could make information easier to find and obtain.

[Prosal]

And then there was this gem:

LOL.Well, everybody has their own methods, but I am happiest and most successful sticking to mine (wink)

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1474-Chisinau&p=438893&viewfull=1#post438893

[Malakai]

Malakai, I wanted to respond to you, because I see that you have made some effort investigating things, are trying to contribute something, and you are not just being lazy to ask for spoon fed assistance without lifting a finger to read the forum and learn the information already posted there previously thru significant investment of effort and time by writers on this thread.

LJ.Great post! Very detailed and thanks a lot.

As for the shifting sands matter, as a lot have commented the pictures get re-used a lot for the fakes / bait+switch. A forum thread of agency numbers could be of some possible use as this number will change a lot less than a deleted profile. Just a thought.

I think I will give Rio a go, maybe try one or two mamba for experience sake.

[Malakai]

Great post! Very detailed and thanks a lot.

As for the shifting sands matter, as a lot have commented the pictures get re-used a lot for the fakes / bait+switch. A forum thread of agency numbers could be of some possible use as this number will change a lot less than a deleted profile. Just a thought.

I think I will give Rio a go, maybe try one or two mamba for experience sake.Also, the genuine girls on Mamba a unlikely to change their profiles so much so a forum thread of verified independents could work a lot better than an avoidance list.

[LilJoey]

Well, everybody has their own methods, but I am happiest and most successful sticking to mine (wink)

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1474-Chisinau&p=438893&viewfull=1#post438893I never was in doubt of you, Prosal. Only in the ability of others to follow in your footsteps.

LJ

[Prosal]

I never was in doubt of you, Prosal. Only in the ability of others to follow in your footsteps.I recently made a video about "game".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOzkN8dHnjk

[Member #4274]

I never was in doubt of you, Prosal. Only in the ability of others to follow in your footsteps.

LJWhat method? You go to a club, identify the girls who are interested in an exchange of sex for money, take them back to your hotel or flat and do the deed. If you like her you see her again. I was in Kiev last summer and scored a couple real knockouts with little more than a nice suit, a little interesting conversation and using my gut instincts. A few nights later I would take her out for dinner and drinks and another round at my flat. One girl even suggested I take her roommate out for a night which I did and was glad too as she was even hotter!

The only real challenge is knowing which clubs or websites to use and understanding the culture of the city your visiting. That takes about an afternoon of reading and a few days in the actual city. I went to Kiev last summer for the first time. I don't speak Russian or Ukrainian and had one friend who showed me around the city. I read on the internet which clubs to go to and in one week I was scoring like crazy. Hell, I even picked up a waitress at Riverpalace before it closed (that took some work and charming).

It's not writing a novel or putting a man on the moon, it's understanding the worlds oldest trade. I'm not sure what all the chatter is about. I am not trying to offend anyone but it isn't anymore complicated than that.

[Member #4274]

I am getting prepared for my next trip to the FSU and while I still have not decided whether I will return to Kiev or head on an adventure to Minsk, I thought I would add my experiences last summer at River Palace right before it was forced to close. I have enjoyed reading others experiences and felt it might be entertaining for others to read mine.

As previously stated, my first trip to Kiev was last summer and other than a few 'do's and don'ts' I read online and a friend who agreed to meet me and show me her city, I knew nothing about getting around Kiev. After a few days of exploring and getting a feel for the city. Made easier by the fact I use to live in Budapest, Hungary (there are some similarities between the two cities, in my opinion). And the priceless advice from my Ukrainian friend. I decided I would venture to River Palace for some World Cup Football, some gambling and to see what the all the fuss was about with the nightclub. I bargained with a cab driver on Kreshchatyk and off I went to River Palace (RP).

Well, the first thing I discovered upon my arrival at RP was that the casino was closed as there are anti-gambling laws in Ukraine which I was not aware of. So, I made my way down to the sports bar to watch Germany play and to have a steak. Afterwards, when the game was over and the restaurant began to fill, I made my way up to the nightclub and paid the 100 UAH entrance fee to get in. Being my first time in a Kiev nightclub I was not sure what to expect. I had read that this was a popular hangout for prostitutes looking for foreign men but I wasn't sure what to believe. Immediately upon entering a small group of women in short skirts and heels took note of me. It was a strange feeling having a cluster of sleek blondes giving me long, aggressive looks. A lot of these women appeared rather attractive under the dim lighting. Not wanting to look overly eager, I made my way to the bar and order my customary whiskey-soda and looked around for a place to sit. The nightclub was starting to fill but the ratio of men to women was about 1 to 10 – odds I enjoyed greatly. All the tables were full save a number in the 'no smoking area' which was ideal as I don't smoke. I sat and observed my surroundings. The places was littered with all sorts of different looking women: sleek blondes in tight skirts and high heels; trim, sexy brunettes in tight jeans; a lanky red head who was dancing alone in front of a mirror next to me; a few heavy set women wearing too much makeup sitting with a couple equally fat Turkish guys.

However, I was not entirely sure that all these girls were prostitutes. I stopped a waitress who had served me in the restaurant and asked her if all these girls were prostitutes and she replied that they were. I ordered another drink from her and gave her a good tip for the info. It was then that I started to scan the crowd to find a girl.

While I was scanning the faces for a pretty one (it was difficult as the fat girls brought the fat Turkish guys on the dance floor which was both hideous and hilarious as none of them could dance) a young woman sat close to me. I looked at her and she smiled. She was pretty, slim and young looking. What most caught my attention was that she was rather conservatively dressed for a girl looking to make money. I asked if she spoke English and she said 'little'.

'What is your name? '

'Marina'

'Are you from Kiev? '

'No, I am Russian. I was born in Vladivostok but I am student here in Kiev'

'How do you like living in Kiev? '

'It is OK. I miss Russia, though'

'I see. How old are you, Marina? '

'19'

'You are very pretty'

'Spasiba' she smiled. 'I like your shoes! '

'Spasiba' I replied. I was wearing a new pair of Lacoste shoes I bought in Paris the week before.

'Can I buy you a drink? '

'If you like'

'I like' I smiled.

I motioned to the waitress who was holding up the wall and she brought over a whiskey soda for me and a chivas and pepsi for her.

'Ok, Marina, maybe we should talk business. '

'If you like'

I leaned over and spoke in her ear. I felt a little awkward trying to find the right words as it was my first time doing something like this but the whiskey made me feel a lot hornier than I was earlier and the lovely smile, soft curves and youthful Marina helped exhilarate me.

'How much for you? '

'Many, many' she said without hesitation (although she pronounced it 'Mangya, Mangya' but I knew what she meant).

'Oh, really? '

'Yes. How long you want? '

'Two hours at my flat'

'300 Euro' she replied immediately.

'No, too mangya, mangya, Marina' I said.

'I am not cheap girl'

'I noticed! How about 175 Euro and I want a BBBJ'

'No problem; 300 Euro' she grinned.

'175 Euro or no dice, Marina'

'I'm sorry but I want 300'

'Look, Marina, if I was one of those fat Turkish guys (I motioned towards them moving awkwardly on the dance floor and she laughed) then I can see you wanting more money to sleep with me, but I'm not. I am in good shape, I dress well, and I will treat you with respect'

'I don't go with Turkish' she laughed.

'Ok, so we have a deal? '

'No, I am not cheap girl' she repeated and sipped from her glass.

I wasn't going to pay 300 for her despite how adorable she was. I watched her stand up and adjust her jeans. She had a lean figure with a tight little ass and small, perky breasts. I figured she was probably 170 cm tall. The fact she was dressed like a regular young woman you might see on the street turned me on even more. I really wanted to get her naked but I still wasn't going to pay 300 Euro for her. There wasn't a woman in the club I was willing to pay 300 Euro for. 'Christ, ' I said to myself 'I'm in Kiev not Paris. The working girls should be cheaper here'. I told her it was nice speaking with her and if she changed her mind to come back and see me.

I got up from my seat as I wanted to stretch my legs and look around for another woman to speak with. I walked to the front of the nightclub and ordered a drink from the bartender. As I turned around to walk away a heavy set guy with curly hair and a Ukrainian accent stepped in front of me and put his hand on my shoulder.

'How are you? ' he said with a smile. I could immediately tell he was gay and had to stop myself from laughing out loud. I couldn't believe this was happening. I smiled at him politely and walked immediately towards a lovely, tall blonde sitting alone smoking with a bottle of champagne. Just before I got to her table I felt someone grab my arm. I turned around and held my breath. I thought it might be that guy again. Fortunately it was Marina who had scurried after me.

'OK. 175 Euro for two hours' she smiled.

She came back to my flat and I watched her take off her towel after she showered and crawled into bed with me. She was completely adorable and clean shaven. Her breasts were small but stood perfectly. I could tell she did not like to give head but she made up with her eagerness to fuck. Afterwards we laid still and talked in bed.

'Do you like Ukraine? ' she asked me.

'Yes. I like it a lot'

'I think you like here because of the many pretty girls! ' she laughed.

'Marina, do you have a boyfriend? '

'No'

'But you're so adorable! Why not? '

'I don't know why. I think guys at uni don't like me'

'Well, I like you'

'I can tell! ' she laughed and stroked my hard member.

'Can we fuck again before you leave? '

'Sure' she smiled brightly and opened her smooth legs for me.

As she left I paid her the 175 Euro plus another 25 Euro tip as she was so pleasant and enjoyable. I told her I wanted to see her again soon. After she left I thought about what had happened and decided I would go back to RP later that week and look for that blonde. Hopefully I wouldn't run into that Ukrainian guy again, I thought. Part II later!

[Curious12]

CanadianBoy,

Thanks for your story, brings back lots of memories. I have one question. What's "Mangya, Mangya"? What does it mean?

[Member #4274]

CanadianBoy,

Thanks for your story, brings back lots of memories. I have one question. What's "Mangya, Mangya"? What does it mean?You're welcome! I enjoyed telling it. Her English wasn't very good and I think she was trying to say 'many, many' meaning a lot of money to get her to come home with me. I understood it as that, anyway.

[Robreefer]

It's interesting how they keep the girls honest on this website. Here is the criteria, taken straight from their page, on how to create a profile for a girl:

"There are two ways to verify your photos:

Take a photo of yourself holding a piece of paper with travelgirls written on it.

Or send a copy of a document with your picture on it (such as passport, drive license, I'd card).

Your verification photos will not be visible to any members. It will only be reviewed by administrators. The photos you send must be high quality with your face clearly visible.

Why you should get verified:

You will appear higher in member list and will receive more attention.

Other members will see that you are verified and will trust you more.

You will have the ability to contact other girls."

You might be wondering. Why is Rob trying to make a woman's profile?

Well, I found this out while trying to cut out the middle man by creating a woman's account and so I can just message girls for free. I guess they think I don't have photo shop. Worse come to worst than I will just fork out the exorbitant registration fee 2 weeks before I hit Ukraine and cancel after I leave.

OH, and for the guys wondering if the site has fakers that "lure" you in with fake messages, I do believe that you're suspicions are unsubstantiated. I made a profile last week with a few of my pictures and have received 8 messages in no time from gorgeous girls throughout Ukraine, and other parts of the world for that matter.

In a way to test this in a half-ass experiment I have made a "fake" profile with a picture of an ugly guy (not sloth ugly, just average ugly guy) and haven't received any messages.

[Prosal]

What method? You go to a club, identify the girls who are interested in an exchange of sex for money, take them back to your hotel or flat and do the deed.

I was in Kiev last summer and scored.

It's understanding the worlds oldest trade. I'm not sure what all the chatter is about.Without being controversial,"scoring" means fucking a girl who didn't expect any financial benefice from you but simply liked you as a person. Relationships with women can exist without money being the primary motivation.

[Malakai]

OH, and for the guys wondering if the site has fakers that "lure" you in with fake messages, I do believe that you're suspicions are unsubstantiated. I made a profile last week with a few of my pictures and have received 8 messages in no time from gorgeous girls throughout Ukraine, and other parts of the world for that matter.

In a way to test this in a half-ass experiment I have made a "fake" profile with a picture of an ugly guy (not sloth ugly, just average ugly guy) and haven't received any messages.I tried to believe it was real as my inbox is loaded with emails from super hot girls. It's very tempting to join as I'm flying to Kiev tomorrow. But just look at the payment providers available. Never heard of any of them. Search for details on each of the companies and they all are listed on rip-off list. Stories of inability to cancel recurring fees and no refunds issued when the service bought was fake or wrong.

If it's too good to be true.

P. S. Did you get any response from your free female account? I have my email on my account and none have used it.

[Malakai]

Has anyone ever gone along to the after work Friday gathering?

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=261994193828047

[Sorbonne]

I tried to believe it was real as my inbox is loaded with emails from super hot girls. It's very tempting to join as I'm flying to Kiev tomorrow. But just look at the payment providers available. Never heard of any of them. Search for details on each of the companies and they all are listed on rip-off list. Stories of inability to cancel recurring fees and no refunds issued when the service bought was fake or wrong.

If it's too good to be true.

P. S. Did you get any response from your free female account? I have my email on my account and none have used it.I have used the payment provider CC Bill before without any problems, but is it on a rip-off list?

[Sorbonne]

It's interesting how they keep the girls honest on this website. Here is the criteria, taken straight from their page, on how to create a profile for a girl:

"There are two ways to verify your photos:

Take a photo of yourself holding a piece of paper with travelgirls written on it.

Or send a copy of a document with your picture on it (such as passport, drive license, I'd card).

Your verification photos will not be visible to any members. It will only be reviewed by administrators. The photos you send must be high quality with your face clearly visible.

Why you should get verified:

You will appear higher in member list and will receive more attention.

Other members will see that you are verified and will trust you more.

You will have the ability to contact other girls."

You might be wondering. Why is Rob trying to make a woman's profile?

Well, I found this out while trying to cut out the middle man by creating a woman's account and so I can just message girls for free. I guess they think I don't have photo shop. Worse come to worst than I will just fork out the exorbitant registration fee 2 weeks before I hit Ukraine and cancel after I leave.

OH, and for the guys wondering if the site has fakers that "lure" you in with fake messages, I do believe that you're suspicions are unsubstantiated. I made a profile last week with a few of my pictures and have received 8 messages in no time from gorgeous girls throughout Ukraine, and other parts of the world for that matter.

In a way to test this in a half-ass experiment I have made a "fake" profile with a picture of an ugly guy (not sloth ugly, just average ugly guy) and haven't received any messages.

How about posting a photo with contact info? smiley

So basically you are posing as a female, send messages to girls for free, directing them to your real (male) profile and informing them of your other email address, and then receive emails from girls? Is that what you are doing? That sounds very clever. Let us know how it's working.

[Curious12]

You're welcome! I enjoyed telling it. Her English wasn't very good and I think she was trying to say 'many, many' meaning a lot of money to get her to come home with me. I understood it as that, anyway.I see. Thanks for the info. Many would be "mnogo", I guess that's what she was trying to say.

[Member #4274]

I see. Thanks for the info. Many would be "mnogo", I guess that's what she was trying to say.You're probably right. I recall is was quite loud in RP that night and I was undoubtedly not very sober.

[Jahsa]

Hi, I've recently joined this site after coming across it. I've read a lot of reports about Mamba, Rio, et al. Lots of testimonies of great finds on mamba and stories of 8-10 rated girls from Rio. But no one ever seems to share details of the girls they've met. No real mamba URLs. And it baffles me as to why. If these girls are truly great finds then share their pages so others can benefit. As for the 8-10+ rated girls, I understand a lot of girls would not want their photos taken, but looking through the photos linked to some postings and I've yet to see a photo of anything above a 3-5 rating.

As I am heading to Kiev this week I contacted a lot of girls on Mamba that looked pretty decent. Instantly most responded with prices & a number even though not requested. So I assume most girls on there are working. Would be interested to know if anyone has met any of these girls and whether they are genuine. Some have dual profiles with different photos, some are different girls with the same number. The prices are as they quoted in their replies.

Name English Price Number.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=626904476

Alika Yes $100.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675199915

Alochka No 700 38-068-258-47-55.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=672734318

Lena No 600 38-095-370-07-03.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671722251

Lena No 600 38-095-370-07-03.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675585346

Sasha No 800 38-068-258-47-80.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=669828041

Alina No 350 38-067-262-19-12.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=673739210

Helen Yes 600 38-093-606-50-51.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=670045652

Masha Yes $100.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671217169

Margot Yes 800.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671152871

Amina Yes.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=673451795

Liza Yes $100 38-093-022-41-78.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=655824157

Olya Yes 38-067-157-61-71.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=669979779

Jeanne Yes 800 38-063-573-67-93.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675609726

Sabrina Yes $80 38-067-283-36-36.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=581106127

Marina Yes $200 38-050-302-11-26.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=675957115

Mika Yes 38-067-283-36-36What's about mamba? Since any days it's no more possible to open the site " mamba. Ru "

[Curious12]

What's about mamba? Since any days it's no more possible to open the site " mamba. Ru "It's working fine now.

[Member #4274]

Not everything that I experienced at River Palace (RP) last summer was about meeting women. A few unusual occurrences resulted from just going up to the night club after watching a little World Cup and having a steak in the restaurant. There were times I would sit in the night club, sipping my customary whiskey and soda, and just watch what was happening. I enjoyed observing how some of the girls acted with the men that came into RP.

There was this one tall, sexy brunette (I think she was 180 cm at least) with a beautiful face and perfect round ass in her faded, tight jeans who was there any time I was. She always gave me long, deep stares and tried to make me smile, which sometimes worked. However, she would never approach me and I didn't feel like approaching her as I saw how she acted. On a couple of occasions she would be approached by a guy, they would talk and leave together. An hour later she would return by herself and stand around the front looking for another guy. To be honest, I really wanted to fuck her but I couldn't stand the idea that I would have to do so after another guy just had her. So, I always stayed away from her. Despite the fact she was smoking hot.

On another occasion I was sitting in the 'non-smoking'section having a drink and watching the floor. A blonde haired woman in her early twenties sat beside me and ordered a glass of white wine. It was not unusual at RP to sit at a table and have a woman or a few women sit at the table with you and not say a word. They would just smoke their Parliament cigarettes, share a bottle of champagne and wait for a man to speak with them. Anyway, on this occasion a blonde sat next to me and we started a conversation. Her name was Olga and she had grown up in Simferopol. She could tell I wasn't interested in her. She just wasn't my type despite her nice smile and fantastic cleavage, but I think she enjoyed my conversation. I asked her about her experiences at RP and she related them to me gladly.

'Olga, what is the most you have ever been paid by a man you met here? '

'500 American'

'What? How did that happen? ' I blurted out in disbelief. It had been my experience that $200 was the norm for a girl at RP unless she was exquisite and it was early in the night then the price was usually $300. Despite her sweetness, Olga was not what I would call exquisite and certainly not worth more than $200.

'It was a Russian man. He was fat and ugly. I did not like him and wanted him to leave me alone. I told him I was 500 dollars hoping it would scare him off. '

'And it didn't? '

'No, he agreed to$ 500 immediately. What could I do? I did not like him but $500 was too much to turn him down. '

'How was the sex? '

'I don't know, I can't remember' she giggled.

The following week I was sitting at a table near the bar braving the awful second hand smoke when an Asian guy sat next to me. He told me he lived in London, England and had a Ukrainian girlfriend who lived in Vinnitsa. He seemed friendly enough and we bought each other a drink and spoke about the Ukraine and the beautiful girls at RP that night. I got the impression he came often as the waitresses all said Hello, to him. He told me the Ukrainian girl he was dating was not pretty at all but she was nice and would make him a good wife. He also said he was not at RP to get laid but just to relax. It was at that point I noticed an absolute knock out heading towards the dance floor. In my opinion this girl was perfect. She was a tall, sexy brunette who dressed well – not in a short skirt and heels – but tight, black dress pants and boots. Her face was fresh and beautiful but something about her didn't fit into RP.

'Do you see that chick on the dance floor? ' I pointed through the blue haze.

'Which one? '

'The tall brunette'

'You like her, huh? '

'Yeah, she's fucking hot! '

'Go talk to her' he smiled.

'No, man, something tells me she's not a prostitute'

'All the girls here are prostitutes' he laughed.

'The Hell she is'

'want to bet? '

'Ok, you go and tell her your friend wants to speak with her. If she agrees to come over I'll buy you whatever drink you want on the menu' I said.

He got up and immediately went up to the girl and spoke in her ear. She smiled at him and said something in his ear. Her smile was perfect and I was already dreaming about those long legs wrapped around me in bed. When he came back he looked at me.

'You were right, she's not a prostitute. She told me she is just here with her friends dancing'

'What a dick tease that is' I mumbled, dejected.

'Sorry, man. Want another drink? '

'Sure'

I had a lot to drink that night and did not think I would be able to perform so I decided to leave RP alone. I got my bag from the cloak room and started up the stairs. It was at that point Olga, the blonde I spoke with the week before, called my name and approached me.

'Going home alone? ' she asked.

'Yes, I am tired and too drunk for a girl tonight'

'You don't want company, handsome? '

'Not tonight, Olga'

'OK'

Have a good night, Olga'

'You too, honey' she smiled kindly.

[Angus Magee]

'Going home alone? ' she asked.

'Yes, I am tired and too drunk for a girl tonight'

'You don't want company, handsome? '

'Not tonight, Olga'

'OK'

Have a good night, Olga'

'You too, honey' she smiled kindly.Damn. I thought it would end with Olga in your bed for a freebie along with the non pro who turned out to be her lesbian gf. I love a happy ending.

In all seriousness-enjoyed your stories. Good writing.

AM

[Member #4274]

Damn. I thought it would end with Olga in your bed for a freebie along with the non pro who turned out to be her lesbian gf. I love a happy ending.

In all seriousness-enjoyed your stories. Good writing.

AMThanks Angus, I enjoy writing them especially since they are 100-percent true. You know, that would have been a dream ending, for sure!

[LilJoey]

As NYC endures being fucked over by Hurricane Irene this weekend, I can't help but look forward to getting to Kiev next weekend for some good weather__LOL__and to multiple fuckings of Irina, the blonde hot-ass sexpot I had the pleasure of meeting during my last Kiev visit. LOL.

LJ

[Roy Stone]

"Oh, by the way, lovely man! Those who offer no strings attached relationship, I suggest you buy me a car without obligation"

This, from the profile of a Kiev girl on Mamba looking love and marriage, made me smile. Made me think a little as well.

[It Travel]

everybody who has been at river palace has great memories of it. it's one of those place you never forget: night flight in moscow, help in rio and so on.

the place where i have the best memories was in the beginning of '90s the bars (a disco bar and the panthera bar) at the third floor of hotel intourist in moscow stayed there a lot and did, by all the others, a wonderful couple of sisters (18 and 20) , always almost 100 girls on duty of all possible types, standard rate at that time 100 bucks!

rp is one of the milestones of sex for mongers, and surely one of the places where you could see the most beautiful girls of earth (if you like the blonde, tall, skinny style.) like some bars in moscow or kiev. or any street in summer in the fsu.

once i remember i took there a friend, never been to eastern europe, or fsu. we were sitting at the bar (i told him to do so you could take a look to the girls before eventually choosing one).

he was asking is it a meeting bar? i started laughing and answered no it's just like a cash and carry. i was already in kiev since some days and thought to give him a tour of the city. independence square, the girls on k. street while drinking a beer, a dinner in podol, and a drink at river palace.

he was sitting there like a boy in front of the window of a toy store. it was in 2006 and at that time the level of girls was unbelievable. i love petite skinny ones, but i remember well i was looking at a tall (at least 180) pale white skinned black haired, blue eyed girl who was just smiling at me (i think she had at least 12 cm heels.) the evening before and the morning i had just pumped the mt (mystery tramp) and before leaving she gave me one of those unforgettable bbbj. despite that after 10 seconds of looking at the tall brunetka (hardly 20 whyear old) my best friend was as a rock. did her the day after. came out she was 18, taller than me. 55 kg or so and ultra skinny ultra leggy body type: fucking like a rabbit, she was from a village far from kiev. unfortunately as most girls from rp she was totally allergic to photos. my friend / collegue took her wing girl. a wonderful petite blondinka (i still remember her, because when we exchanged them, we had agreed on that, my friend told me she had nice anal attitudes and. of course it get crazy when talking about anal!) , just 20, petite and skinny. i must say that beauties were mostly at rp, but real sex animals were mostly in other places. agencies, bars, mamba, and so on. as far as i know the only kiev sex legend standing sometimes in river palace was mystery tramp, surely not the most beautiful one but.

getting back for a moment the first evening he was obviously willing to take home some, but i had already arranged a meeting with [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901) (for me, she was leaving and i did not want to lose her spectacular bbbj / hj / cim / cof i really enjoyed two days before) and with a tall blonde: wonderful just filled 19 (for my friend). but told nothing to him. just told that we had to go home because we would have guests at 11 pm.

he was amazed (as me) by the blondinka found by [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901), with shoes she was surely more than 20 cm taller than him. as most of the gals at rp. i simply kissed [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901) and got in my bedroom and told him have a nice night!

it.

ps.

a not so efficient tour operator thinking it's still existing.

http://en.almandry.com/your-leisure/party-for-your-choice/288-river-palace.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-3cibhivf4&feature=related wonderful summer ua teens!

[POS1043]

Ok so I usually don't post much but here's my take on Kiev. First I'm at lybid hotel 70 buck, run down a bit girl friendly before 9pm. I went to dlux, (very posch) caribian club (small nice for dancing) buddha bar, (nicer than even dlux) vodka bar (non-pros, young crowd, loud music bar, good) and finally SHOOTERS, which I haven't seen reported yet on the forum.

So shooters is for a well dressed young to old crowd, the old being men with money. A tough face control at the door, my arabic "friends" (I'm white) got shut out twice in a a row and I almost did, and I saw others get the negative too. I just didn't bring a sport coat or dress shoes on this trip. Shooters was nice, crowded and had hot women all 7-10 non and semi pros, probably pros too but its not a structured pro place at all.

ANyway here's the meat of the story. I meet a 9 that looks like jennifer conelly when she was 19 (old actress) and begin the process. She likes me and says she wants a virgin mojito, ok no biggie after 5 min but I buy it, then after 15 min she says lets go upstairs for sushi, I think ok she may be trying to get over on me but I also think this is the way it is here and there is no way around it.

We sit and eat and she orders two more virgin drinks along with a sushi plate and it was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet (it was my 4rth place that night) and they don't take amex so. Whew.

And now the fun begins, I was playing it as a non-pro freebee- she said she studies law so I say do you work also, she says no and I say so how do you pay for school and living, thinking I'd get a sad story and then I could say "oh maybe I could help you with that," but instead she becomes offended and says she doesn't like the question. She begins to text her friend and than says"I want to smoke" So thinking I blew it I start damage control with out being to weak looking saying, hey its a fair question and I'm just trying to get to know you" Mind you she hasnt let on to being a prosti yet but I'm getting to think she is by the attitude and other small details.

Long story short, she offered no signs of actually liking me aside from sitting with me and I really just wanted to say,"ok lets cut the shit, you want 600 grivnha or what?" but I didn't have any obvious clue that I should break character. I had told her my job and that I wanted to spend my last day in Kiev with her tomorrow and all she kept saying was "maybe I'm very busy tomorrow" So I'm thinking WTF and she keeps saying she wants to go to the maldives with me? But not lunch? So finally I see the waitress drop off a pack of cigs, I have no money and I tell her she has to pay for that and then the beast comes out,"oh you don't have any money? This is too much for you hahaha, I call my friend then, I like ukranian guy he pay all, hahah I don't like you, you ask question I don't like and you don't pay my things." I remind her I paid 400 already on her and that she should say thank you and not insult me and that maybe in her country its all cash but in america we use credit cards and its not my fault they don't accept it in this place, Also that she never asked if I would buy cigs for her. So we get in a mini battle about manners, and she insists my card was "out of money hahaha" and that I don't have much money, I say I could buy a car with that card and instead of shutting up she gets into"what type of car?" and seriously wants me to name drop cars I "could" buy. I keep it real and say oh who cares, maybe a toyota, she thinks this is ok and says "oh that is a good car" I laugh inside thinking. So in ukraine you must just have to brag and brag, spend 100 bucks up front on drinks and dinner, then if you blow enough smoke up their asses you can F them for free?

I say,"ok I'm going to go get my friend and borrow 30 grivnha so I can pay your smokes but I'm not happy with you or how you talk, you are very "bad educated" I come back 5 min later and magically she is gone and the bill was paid. I see her downstairs and she is already talking with some arabic guy of all people (how did he get in?) iI interrupt and send him on his way and say "oh I went back and didn't see you" she looked at me for a long 5 seconds. Grabbed her purse and went off in the direction of said oil sheek.

Side note, the night before two 9's came up to me all smiley and wanting to know where I was from, I am young looking (26 by all who meet me) but really nearer to 40, blond blue eyes in shape, so I get alot of looks here, they can tell I'm foreign. So these two 9's ask for drinks after 5 min and when I say ok and turn to buy them, hey are off talking to others and then slowly drift away as I wait for their drinks. Drinks arrive, they are out of sight. Again WTF?

Another girl, a 9 easy, I approached by tapping her shoulder since the music was extremely loud, she says" I don't like when men touch me" I say oh so you must not have a boyfriend then either, she actually smiled at that but then went back to * mode and said, I don't want to talk to you" I tried once more to no avail. This was the second time that happened to me, I barely tap a girl on the outer shoulder and BOOM, its over.

SO wrap up, I pick 9's only, true 9's not made up 28 year olds who have had kids, but young hot white w nice skin, and thin and I'm a guy whos lived in brasil for a year and know what a true hotty looks like. So maybe its the level but so far I really don't get it here. Granted I had only two nights but It seems the girls here are very cutthroat and basically stupid. Can't any guy just say hes rich? I'm not against buying a drink even though I would never do this in the US, I know its a different culture but why ask for a drink and bail? Why get so bent if you are a semi pro when I ask about your work and don't buy 3 dollar cigarettes after 60 dollars in food and drink?

Is this just a bad start or am I playing the game wrong? I thought the soft sell was best. I never walk up and go "hey you, you want to F me? I pay you X amount"

CommentsPretty funny but I am 90 percent sure that I met you at the sushi bar before going down into the club of shooters.

So I have checked this site out a few times when going to different places and just took info, but never given back so I will break down Kiev in my eyes.

Like I said in my previous post. So you know my background and where I am coming from. I am a 30 year old guy from Miami Beach. I a good looking guy, in shape and pretty much can pull hot chicks wherever.

I went to Kiev for the first time a few weeks ago and stayed for 6 nights. The first night I was there I went out to the best club Dantes and pulled a legitimate 9 (and when I say nines I am talking about a REAL 9 on South Beach terms). She was 22, black hair, lightest green eyes possible, insane body, getting her PHD, spoke 5 languages and was visiting Kiev from Harkiev or whatever its called (nearby city). It was like being out at any club in Miami or anywhere else in states and picking up a chick Difference was she would have been really really really hard to pull in states (equivalent of how I would pull a 7-8). Had to talk a lot of game, get drinks and bond with her and took her home first night. We hung out the next two nights and took her to train station when she went home. NO money, no talk of money, not a pro, asked for nothing and still talk to her on messenger and wants to come visit and will pay for her own ticket.

I went the day she left to a place called Rakuena which was recommended to me off of here as the best massage place in Kiev. Place was definitely very clean but a total shit show as far as organization. I was waiting for 30 minutes while they were scurrying all over the place getting it together, maybe they were just busy. I went with the Rakuena massage which I thought was 3 chicks massaging you, it was 140 dollars. 3 girls I would say ranged between 7. 5-8. 25. One showers you and jerks you then the other two massage you and jerk again. Overall was OK- really business like and pretty bad attitudes. Like I said, could have just been a bad day but who knows. Would prob give it a second chance. Passed out early that night.

Next day went to Rio with friend I met there who is also American. Also was recommended that place from here that you could take down a 9-10. This was one of main things I wanted to do in Kiev was get a 10 model type of girl. In my opinion girls were from 6-8. 5 at best. Place was set up like shit. Really narrow, no where to sit, couldn't get a table even if there was no one sitting there. Me and guy I was with called over a few of the really hot ones, chatted them up and were like how does it work (everyone here said 300 and take home).3 of them literally weren't interested in talking or going home. This was crazy to me because we are both clean cut, attractive, dressed nice and clearly had cash. He left and I stayed and went downstairs, which is def best place to be in that place. I made full on eye contact with a really cute chick 7. 75 and she came over. She was 19, spoke pretty good English, really good personality and told me she saw me before and was into it. I asked her if she wanted to take off (not thrilled cause thought I would be taking home a 9-10 based off of here) and she like I have never done that before. She had only been working there one month. I literally had to talk her into it for 10-15 minutes and finally she said OK. Turned out actually to be good cause I really believe she hadn't done before so it was total GFE all the way. We went back to my apartment had amazing sex for few hours, she slept over and in the morning her phone was blowing up and it was her Mom calling her worried so she had to go (got to admit that was pretty hilarious). Overall disappointed with Rio.

Next night Shooters where I met Billy (I think same guy). Def a strict face control like he said, I saw 4 Pakistani looking guys get turned away before me. Went and ate sushi met Billy and we went down to club. In my opinion the girls weren't 7-10's they were more like 5's-maybe one 9. I went up to the only 9 in the place and started talking to her. She was 5 foot 9 or so, blond, and beautiful. She was actually really nice, said she was a model but spoke really minimal English so was tough to carry on convo for long. Then we tried hitting on a few other girls and they were kind of bitchy. Then Billy met that chick and her friend who we got mojito's for. He took her upstairs, I talked to a few other girls got approached by some busted hookers and with not much success took off.

Now here is my overall take on Kiev- DO NOT go in August, every Dbag from all over is on vacation there. All the young college girls are on vacation in Odessa and other beach town. The limited girls who are there are getting bombarded by tourist and are on serious guard. I would give RIO and SHOOTERS another shot because of this factor.

The girls are the hottest I have ever seen anywhere. Totally insane, walking on the streets you see 8-10s all over the place. If you are the type of guy that can go up to girls in the street and pull it is a gold mine.

Someone else replied to Billy's post saying the way you have to be with Slavic girls and I totally agree. That is all I date in Miami so I have learned there game. You have to be very dominant- the most important thing is that they all will test you right away when you start talking to them and will be a *****. You have to come right over the top of them and show that you are not intimidated by them. They like guys that are unpredictable and send their emotions all over the place. Once you get them though they are the best. Feminine, smart, crazy, fun, amazing in bed and love sex.

This is the real unbiased deal on KIEV

[Sorbonne]

POS1043,

Thanks for your take on Kiev.

Let me just get this straight. You only go after Slavic girls in Miami Beach? I didn't know that there was such a sizable Slavic population in Miami Beach.

I prefer Scandinavians to Slavics, but since the former aren't necessarily available to me, I go after the latter. But now I'm planning a trip to Norway and Sweden before coming over to Ukraine next summer or fall. Smiley.

[Guntherus]

. so it was total GFE all the way. We went back to my apartment had amazing sex for few hours, she slept over and in the morning her phone was blowing up and it was her Mom calling her worried so she had to go (got to admit that was pretty hilarious). Overall disappointed with Rio.Thanks for a nice and in my opinion balanced report after first visit, except I cannot quite understand disappointment with Rio-girls. I have been there several times and reported, and maybe I and others gave this impression the girls were all near-perfect. Which they are not, and besides, de gustibus non est disputantum, you can always argue about taste. It is up to individual girls if they go home with someone (I think some of them never do this) , but the price is not in their power: I have had to give the money to the manager and then meet the girl after she dressed. Always fantastic experience (and otherwise I have no interest in the place whatsoever!).

[LilJoey]

Mamba. Ru problem:

There is definitely a problem that continues with loading the mamba. Ru website, as a poster reported earlier, which causes the browser to crash and close and then automatically attempt to reload the page. After a few times it will cease to reload and display the message that page could not be loaded. However, the problem relates to use of Internet Explorer web browser, which is the most commonly used browser and therefore the one most attacked by internet threats. The solution is to download and use another browser. I have used the Google Chrome browser, which is similar in its functioning to Internet Explorer, without having the same problem occur on mamba. Ru. Also Mozilla Firefox browser works ok.

Rio 8 to 10 level girls:

I was surprised to read POS1043's report that he saw no high level hotties at Rio during his August visit. I am also a very particular and demanding guy when it comes to a girl's looks, so I don't think it's because POS1043 has an even higher South Beach standard. I posted in my very first post the links to two girls listed on londonescortguide. Com to illustrate what I considered to be a 9 or 10 in order to aid my effort to communicate with the guys on this board. I don't think there could be much argument that those two girls are at least 9's or 10's. I have stated clearly in my prior posts, in an effort to preserve accuracy, that cerainly not ALL the girls at Rio are 8 to 10's, and there are many who are average looking to above average looking there as well. I also reported that it takes time to view the line ups in each bar until one can spot the smaller percentage of gems that I have always seen at Rio on All my prior visits there. Is POS1043's report that there were NO girls at Rio on a level of 8 to 10 another example of an exaggeration in one direction, or are his observations the product of not looking long enough? I don't know. But it is also possible, as he too suggests, that August is a vacation time, and many regular hotties at Rio may have been away. It does not stand to reason that the Rio line up, where efforts are made to find hot girls to work there, should represent a cross -- section of Kiev girls that is much LESS dense with hotties, than what even POS1043 writes he saw all over the streets of Kiev, given that the Rio girls line up is drawn from the same population. Anyway, I will be there this weekend to make my own observations, as will two other members of this board that I know about. I will dutifully report if there is a problem with the line up that is persisting.

LJ

[Irish Lad]

Good summing up by POS1043 of Kiev in summer.

Best plan is to head to Odessa and hook up with girls NOT from Odessa.

Plenty of holidaymakers and easier to connect with. If staying more than a few days, invite someone to Odessa to stay with you. Alternativly, search a few who are on their last days and runing out of money. They would rather stay longer than head home.

[Sponsor74]

Mamba. Ru problem:

There is definitely a problem that continues with loading the mamba. Ru website, as a poster reported earlier, which causes the browser to crash and close and then automatically attempt to reload the page. After a few times it will cease to reload and display the message that page could not be loaded. However, the problem relates to use of Internet Explorer web browser, which is the most commonly used browser and therefore the one most attacked by internet threats. The solution is to download and use another browser. I have used the Google Chrome browser, which is similar in its functioning to Internet Explorer, without having the same problem occur on mamba. Ru. Also Mozilla Firefox browser works ok.

Rio 8 to 10 level girls:

I was surprised to read POS1043's report that he saw no high level hotties at Rio during his August visit. I am also a very particular and demanding guy when it comes to a girl's looks, so I don't think it's because POS1043 has an even higher South Beach standard. I posted in my very first post the links to two girls listed on londonescortguide. Com to illustrate what I considered to be a 9 or 10 in order to aid my effort to communicate with the guys on this board. I don't think there could be much argument that those two girls are at least 9's or 10's. I have stated clearly in my prior posts, in an effort to preserve accuracy, that cerainly not ALL the girls at Rio are 8 to 10's, and there are many who are average looking to above average looking there as well. I also reported that it takes time to view the line ups in each bar until one can spot the smaller percentage of gems that I have always seen at Rio on All my prior visits there. Is POS1043's report that there were NO girls at Rio on a level of 8 to 10 another example of an exaggeration in one direction, or are his observations the product of not looking long enough? I don't know. But it is also possible, as he too suggests, that August is a vacation time, and many regular hotties at Rio may have been away. It does not stand to reason that the Rio line up, where efforts are made to find hot girls to work there, should represent a cross. Section of Kiev girls that is much LESS dense with hotties, than what even POS1043 writes he saw all over the streets of Kiev, given that the Rio girls line up is drawn from the same population. Anyway, I will be there this weekend to make my own observations, as will two other members of this board that I know about. I will dutifully report if there is a problem with the line up that is persisting.

LJHello, YES I can confirm I have this problem and thanks for the recomendations. I also wonder how are the risks (virus etc) of using this site due to these attacks. Maybe we have to use CONDOMS too by surfing in internet in sites like this and our antivirus protections are not enough

[LilJoey]

Hello, YES I can confirm I have this problem and thanks for the recomendations. I also wonder how are the risks (virus etc) of using this site due to these attacks. Maybe we have to use CONDOMS too by surfing in internet in sites like this and our antivirus protections are not enoughMamba is in fact a website designated as unsafe by Internet Security applications such as Trend Micro's antivirus application, and one needs to specifically overide the block and manually put in mamba as an "allowed" site. My computer guy recommended using Mozilla Firefox saying it has more protections from viruses or malware. I suppose the Google Chrome browser which Google says is protected and safer, might be safer than using Internet Explorer, but satisfy yourself by asking someone knowledgeable in computers about your security needs.

LJ

[POS1043]

In response to the few posts after mine concerning the Rio.

Like I did say, I would give it a second chance and do believe that the month being August had a lot to do with it. I think that it is probably the worst month as far

As foreigners coming and girls leaving.

On the other hand the place itself and the set up in my opinion was a 6. Very narrow and way more guys there than girls working. There wasn't really any girls

Under a 6 but definitely none over an 8. 5. Yes my standard is very high for being from Miami but if I am going to pay I want cream of the crop. Overall just wasn't impressed with the place but after seeing the girls on the street think it probably has a lot of potential other times of the years for hotties, still the place is set up

Like shit. If you have ever been to a Therma (Senturos) in Brazil and to this place you will understand what I mean about a good set up and way more chicks than

Guys. Although I will say Slavic girls are way hotter to me.

As far as my opinion of time of year like Irish Lad said if you are going to go not just to Kiev but any major city in Europe it is best not to go in July or August. Those are the months to hit the coastal cities and hook up with girls on vaca.

I was just really excited to hook up with a 9-10 (IMO which is a girl equivalent to a Victoria Secrets model) and there def was nothing close to that.

[Prosal]

I was just really excited to hook up with a 9-10 (IMO which is a girl equivalent to a Victoria Secrets model) and there def was nothing close to that.Definitely agree with your rating system. Best dievs I've ever had were 8, 5/9 or so and those girls were absolutely world-class Bond-girl types (or V Secret models as you say). I rate VERY few girls above 8, 5, even among those that I see on magazine covers. And have no 10s. Maybe Aphrodite could be rated a 10, but unfortunatly I've never been (yet) on Olympus Mons to check.

[Prosal]

Vote for a Miss Universe Semifinalist:

As I'm a sucker for blue-eyed brunettes and love the country, I'd vote Georgia, and give her a solid 9.

http://missuniverse.com/members/contestants

(smilie)

[LilJoey]

Definitely agree with your rating system. Best dievs I've ever had were 8, 5/9 or so and those girls were absolutely world-class Bond-girl types (or V Secret models as you say). I rate VERY few girls above 8, 5, even among those that I see on magazine covers. And have no 10s. Maybe Aphrodite could be rated a 10, but unfortunatly I've never been (yet) on Olympus Mons to check.I will continue to be happy with what you guys are calling an 8. 5. But even in your frame of reference of victoria secret, for example, in my book, Taya at Rio has got to be a 9 to 10 girl in looks department. Taya blows away what I have seen in a victoria secret catalogue (most of whose girls have pretty faces but are lacking in the hot body department compared to the ukrainian hotties). I am often in south beach. You can see such hot women in new york hotspots any day or night. If POS1043 admits to seeing 8 to 10 level women all over the streets of Kiev during his visit, then his frame of reference is not off, and we can relate to it. So something must have been amiss on the nights of his visits to Rio. Definitely give it another shot on a future visit.

Just to further clarify your comments, what rating would you give a girl like Amelia in the following links?

http://www.admiralescorts.com/escort/edgware-road-w2-blonde-amelia

http://www.agencybarracuda.co.uk/london_escorts/Amelia_517.html

MAMBA WARNING:

Guys, I continue to have problems with mamba website, despite using different browsers like google chrome or mozilla firefox, even to the point that I was knocked offline from my wireless connection and had to reboot my router and do a windows repair on the IP address. Recommend saving all your mamba contacts pics and phone numbers onto an accessible Word document in case the problems on the mamba server cause all that hard researched info to become inaccessible while you're in Kiev and need it at your fingertips.

LJ

[Sorbonne]

I will continue to be happy with what you guys are calling an 8. 5. But even in your frame of reference of victoria secret, for example, in my book, Taya at Rio has got to be a 9 to 10 girl in looks department. Taya blows away what I have seen in a victoria secret catalogue (most of whose girls have pretty faces but are lacking in the hot body department compared to the ukrainian hotties). I am often in south beach. You can see such hot women in new york hotspots any day or night. If POS1043 admits to seeing 8 to 10 level women all over the streets of Kiev during his visit, then his frame of reference is not off, and we can relate to it. So something must have been amiss on the nights of his visits to Rio. Definitely give it another shot on a future visit.

Just to further clarify your comments, what rating would you give a girl like Amelia in the following links?

http://www.admiralescorts.com/escort/edgware-road-w2-blonde-amelia

http://www.agencybarracuda.co.uk/london_escorts/Amelia_517.html

MAMBA WARNING:

Guys, I continue to have problems with mamba website, despite using different browsers like google chrome or mozilla firefox, even to the point that I was knocked offline from my wireless connection and had to reboot my router and do a windows repair on the IP address. Recommend saving all your mamba contacts pics and phone numbers onto an accessible Word document in case the problems on the mamba server cause all that hard researched info to become inaccessible while you're in Kiev and need it at your fingertips.

LJLiljoey,

I agree that some of the girls at Rio are gorgeous. As to the ratio of gorgeous girls to so-so girls, I might even say that the ratio at Rio is better than the ratio at the River Palace (of the past).

This is interesting. I had a girl N from Rio one day and 2 days later I had an appointment with Amelia in London. But I was so happy with N that I cancelled the appointment with Amelia. To this day I have not had Amelia. I'm not sure if I made the right decision, but I didn't want to dilute my memory of N with Amelia.

[Sorbonne]

Vote for a Miss Universe Semifinalist:

As I'm a sucker for blue-eyed brunettes and love the country, I'd vote Georgia, and give her a solid 9.

http://missuniverse.com/members/contestants

(smilie) Thanks for this link. If we all tell our favorite, we can compare our tastes, I suppose.

I initially looked through only the thumbnails and picked Brazil, Denmark, Netherlands, Poland and Sweden. I think these show my Scandinavia inclination. And then I went through the larger photos and finally voted for Miss Poland. She looks weak in swimsuit, but I was wowed by her close-up!

[Climaxnow]

Ok so I usually don't post much but here's my take on Kiev. First I'm at lybid hotel 70 buck, run down a bit girl friendly before 9pm. I went to dlux, (very posch) caribian club (small nice for dancing) buddha bar, (nicer than even dlux) vodka bar (non-pros, young crowd, loud music bar, good) and finally SHOOTERS, which I haven't seen reported yet on the forum.

So shooters is for a well dressed young to old crowd, the old being men with money. A tough face control at the door, my arabic "friends" (I'm white) got shut out twice in a a row and I almost did, and I saw others get the negative too. I just didn't bring a sport coat or dress shoes on this trip. Shooters was nice, crowded and had hot women all 7-10 non and semi pros, probably pros too but its not a structured pro place at all.

ANyway here's the meat of the story. I meet a 9 that looks like jennifer conelly when she was 19 (old actress) and begin the process. She likes me and says she wants a virgin mojito, ok no biggie after 5 min but I buy it, then after 15 min she says lets go upstairs for sushi, I think ok she may be trying to get over on me but I also think this is the way it is here and there is no way around it.

We sit and eat and she orders two more virgin drinks along with a sushi plate and it was a total of 300 grivna which was exactly what I had left in the wallet (it was my 4rth place that night) and they don't take amex so. Whew.

And now the fun begins, I was playing it as a non-pro freebee- she said she studies law so I say do you work also, she says no and I say so how do you pay for school and living, thinking I'd get a sad story and then I could say "oh maybe I could help you with that," but instead she becomes offended and says she doesn't like the question. She begins to text her friend and than says"I want to smoke" So thinking I blew it I start damage control with out being to weak looking saying, hey its a fair question and I'm just trying to get to know you" Mind you she hasnt let on to being a prosti yet but I'm getting to think she is by the attitude and other small details.

Long story short, she offered no signs of actually liking me aside from sitting with me and I really just wanted to say,"ok lets cut the shit, you want 600 grivnha or what?" but I didn't have any obvious clue that I should break character. I had told her my job and that I wanted to spend my last day in Kiev with her tomorrow and all she kept saying was "maybe I'm very busy tomorrow" So I'm thinking WTF and she keeps saying she wants to go to the maldives with me? But not lunch? So finally I see the waitress drop off a pack of cigs, I have no money and I tell her she has to pay for that and then the beast comes out,"oh you don't have any money? This is too much for you hahaha, I call my friend then, I like ukranian guy he pay all, hahah I don't like you, you ask question I don't like and you don't pay my things." I remind her I paid 400 already on her and that she should say thank you and not insult me and that maybe in her country its all cash but in america we use credit cards and its not my fault they don't accept it in this place, Also that she never asked if I would buy cigs for her. So we get in a mini battle about manners, and she insists my card was "out of money hahaha" and that I don't have much money, I say I could buy a car with that card and instead of shutting up she gets into"what type of car?" and seriously wants me to name drop cars I "could" buy. I keep it real and say oh who cares, maybe a toyota, she thinks this is ok and says "oh that is a good car" I laugh inside thinking. So in ukraine you must just have to brag and brag, spend 100 bucks up front on drinks and dinner, then if you blow enough smoke up their asses you can F them for free?

I say,"ok I'm going to go get my friend and borrow 30 grivnha so I can pay your smokes but I'm not happy with you or how you talk, you are very "bad educated" I come back 5 min later and magically she is gone and the bill was paid. I see her downstairs and she is already talking with some arabic guy of all people (how did he get in?) iI interrupt and send him on his way and say "oh I went back and didn't see you" she looked at me for a long 5 seconds. Grabbed her purse and went off in the direction of said oil sheek.

Side note, the night before two 9's came up to me all smiley and wanting to know where I was from, I am young looking (26 by all who meet me) but really nearer to 40, blond blue eyes in shape, so I get alot of looks here, they can tell I'm foreign. So these two 9's ask for drinks after 5 min and when I say ok and turn to buy them, hey are off talking to others and then slowly drift away as I wait for their drinks. Drinks arrive, they are out of sight. Again WTF?

Another girl, a 9 easy, I approached by tapping her shoulder since the music was extremely loud, she says" I don't like when men touch me" I say oh so you must not have a boyfriend then either, she actually smiled at that but then went back to * mode and said, I don't want to talk to you" I tried once more to no avail. This was the second time that happened to me, I barely tap a girl on the outer shoulder and BOOM, its over.

SO wrap up, I pick 9's only, true 9's not made up 28 year olds who have had kids, but young hot white w nice skin, and thin and I'm a guy whos lived in brasil for a year and know what a true hotty looks like. So maybe its the level but so far I really don't get it here. Granted I had only two nights but It seems the girls here are very cutthroat and basically stupid. Can't any guy just say hes rich? I'm not against buying a drink even though I would never do this in the US, I know its a different culture but why ask for a drink and bail? Why get so bent if you are a semi pro when I ask about your work and don't buy 3 dollar cigarettes after 60 dollars in food and drink?

Is this just a bad start or am I playing the game wrong? I thought the soft sell was best. I never walk up and go "hey you, you want to F me? I pay you X amount"

Comments1. This is Kiev 2011 and not 1995.

2. Don't get suckered into buying strangers drinks. You can offer one if the girl really seems interested.

3. The game is over once a girl is on the defensive.

4. No. Girls are not stupid in Kiev, they just don't want to be used. Especially by a one week, wrong side of his thirties Westerner.

5. Never touch a complete stranger. Learn to approach girls at the proper angle at the right time.

6. Be real! Step back and understand the realities of your particular situation. If your thirty something, you will probably have to pay.

7. Bring some dignity to the game. Chasing somebody down in the bar that's clearly not into you is a complete waste of time.

8. Use common business sense. When this girl asked you to buy her sushi, you must have gotten that vibe of being used. If

Something is not simple and clear, don't do it.

[POS1043]

I will continue to be happy with what you guys are calling an 8. 5. But even in your frame of reference of victoria secret, for example, in my book, Taya at Rio has got to be a 9 to 10 girl in looks department. Taya blows away what I have seen in a victoria secret catalogue (most of whose girls have pretty faces but are lacking in the hot body department compared to the ukrainian hotties). I am often in south beach. You can see such hot women in new york hotspots any day or night. If POS1043 admits to seeing 8 to 10 level women all over the streets of Kiev during his visit, then his frame of reference is not off, and we can relate to it. So something must have been amiss on the nights of his visits to Rio. Definitely give it another shot on a future visit.

Just to further clarify your comments, what rating would you give a girl like Amelia in the following links?

http://www.admiralescorts.com/escort/edgware-road-w2-blonde-amelia

http://www.agencybarracuda.co.uk/london_escorts/Amelia_517.html

MAMBA WARNING:

Guys, I continue to have problems with mamba website, despite using different browsers like google chrome or mozilla firefox, even to the point that I was knocked offline from my wireless connection and had to reboot my router and do a windows repair on the IP address. Recommend saving all your mamba contacts pics and phone numbers onto an accessible Word document in case the problems on the mamba server cause all that hard researched info to become inaccessible while you're in Kiev and need it at your fingertips.

LJNow that is a 9+. Nothing even close to that at the Rio. If you claim there are chicks like that there then maybe need to give it another chance.

[POS1043]

Thanks for this link. If we all tell our favorite, we can compare our tastes, I suppose.

I initially looked through only the thumbnails and picked Brazil, Denmark, Netherlands, Poland and Sweden. I think these show my Scandinavia inclination. And then I went through the larger photos and finally voted for Miss Poland. She looks weak in swimsuit, but I was wowed by her close-up!I would give Georgia a 7. 5 at best

[POS1043]

Definitely agree with your rating system. Best dievs I've ever had were 8, 5/9 or so and those girls were absolutely world-class Bond-girl types (or V Secret models as you say). I rate VERY few girls above 8, 5, even among those that I see on magazine covers. And have no 10s. Maybe Aphrodite could be rated a 10, but unfortunatly I've never been (yet) on Olympus Mons to check.Perfect 10s are fairy tale's, unicorns, big foot. They don't exist or at least I have never seen one.

[POS1043]

1. This is Kiev 2011 and not 1995.

2. Don't get suckered into buying strangers drinks. You can offer one if the girl really seems interested.

3. The game is over once a girl is on the defensive.

4. No. Girls are not stupid in Kiev, they just don't want to be used. Especially by a one week, wrong side of his thirties Westerner.

5. Never touch a complete stranger. Learn to approach girls at the proper angle at the right time.

6. Be real! Step back and understand the realities of your particular situation. If your thirty something, you will probably have to pay.

7. Bring some dignity to the game. Chasing somebody down in the bar that's clearly not into you is a complete waste of time.

8. Use common business sense. When this girl asked you to buy her sushi, you must have gotten that vibe of being used. If

Something is not simple and clear, don't do it.I was kind of impressed with your take until I got to number 6. That is bullshit I am 31 and pull 18-21 year olds all day long. Can assure you that when I am on the wrong side of 30's. 20-26 year olds will be no problem. With as much game as you when you are 50 you will be taking down 18-21 years olds all day long.

[Sorbonne]

I would give Georgia a 7. 5 at bestAnd Miss Poland?

[Climaxnow]

I was kind of impressed with your take until I got to number 6. That is bullshit I am 31 and pull 18-21 year olds all day long. Can assure you that when I am on the wrong side of 30's. 20-26 year olds will be no problem. With as much game as you when you are 50 you will be taking down 18-21 years olds all day long.From what I can see from Billy Bobs post, he's your fresh off the airplane American so gun hoe about the hot chicks that he looses his sense of reality. He walks into a bar and makes every known mistake. I have seen it so many times and they always end up calling the girls stupid and bitches. The guys that persistently go to bars and score freebees have a sense of keeping themselves real. They don't let themselves fall into traps and get emotionally beat up. They constantly move, searching for that right connection.

If your 31, speak Russian, and live in Kiev, I do not doubt you. If your an American without language skills, than your probably the one that's bullshit. How many good looking thirty year olds Westerners fly into Kiev and score an 8 or 9 without money being exchanged on a one week trip (maybe one in ten). If its that easy, please some senior member correct me.