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From what I can see from Billy Bobs post, he's your fresh off the airplane American so gun hoe about the hot chicks that he looses his sense of reality. He walks into a bar and makes every known mistake. I have seen it so many times and they always end up calling the girls stupid and bitches. The guys that persistently go to bars and score freebees have a sense of keeping themselves real. They don't let themselves fall into traps and get emotionally beat up. They constantly move, searching for that right connection.
If your 31, speak Russian, and live in Kiev, I do not doubt you. If your an American without language skills, than your probably the one that's bullshit. How many good looking thirty year olds Westerners fly into Kiev and score an 8 or 9 without money being exchanged on a one week trip (maybe one in ten). If its that easy, please some senior member correct me.I pulled a solid 8. 5-9 first night in Kiev. No money, hung out with her for 4 days and now wants to come visit Miami on her dime. Maybe I am just a lucky guy. Maybe I have solid game. Maybe I know how to approach girls from a diagonal angle like you.
Who knows maybe this American who got taught his first 4 words of Russian by the girl he banged the first night is a myth.
Vote for a Miss Universe Semifinalist:
As I'm a sucker for blue-eyed brunettes and love the country, I'd vote Georgia, and give her a solid 9.
http://missuniverse.com/members/contestants
(smilie) Miss Georgia isn't even top 10. I narrowed mine down to five, then three and now I'm down to only two. For me it's between Denmark and Egypt.
http://missuniverse.com/members/profile/599515/year:2011
http://missuniverse.com/members/profile/604204/year:2011
Liljoey,
I agree that some of the girls at Rio are gorgeous. As to the ratio of gorgeous girls to so-so girls, I might even say that the ratio at Rio is better than the ratio at the River Palace (of the past).
This is interesting. I had a girl N from Rio one day and 2 days later I had an appointment with Amelia in London. But I was so happy with N that I cancelled the appointment with Amelia. To this day I have not had Amelia. I'm not sure if I made the right decision, but I didn't want to dilute my memory of N with Amelia.WHAT? Sorbonne, you cancelled on Amelia to preserve a memory of a Rio girl from Kiev (mystery girl N)? Wow. You must either be a romantic, or Miss N really worked over your dick to the point you didn't feel up to meeting Amelia. (I'm assuming you had seen my positive comments re Amelia). Did you see anyone else while in London, or just take it easy?
I am facing a sort of reverse situation. I went sort of overboard at FKK Oase last night (doing 5 sessions) and after 3 hours sleep, am coming into Kiev today with not an ounce of juice left in me_LOL. I think I will cancel the two mamba girls I had invited over this afternoon to take the edge off before hitting Rio tonight. That edge is long gone with the fluids expended in doing justice to the group of Kishinev girls I saw at Oase for the first time. But those Mamba girls are unknowns. But to pass on Amelia?
By the way, POS1043, Taya at Rio has those blond good looks almost on a par with Amelia, however I give Amelia of London much higher rating in the attitude and service department. Rosa at Rio would be another example of a very pretty girl although I heard she left Rio for true love. Margarita at Rio (dancer only) would be an example from the brunettes of a high level hottie. These girls are examples of at least 9's at Rio. Gloria has a body that will knock your socks off but her face is not as pretty as these others, although very sexy. I am very partial to Ada who has an amazing body that gets me really horny when she dances and a face that is about as pretty as a girl next door can get. Gloria, Bella, Tanya, Ada. I think are in the 8 or 9 range. There's plenty of good stuff there.
LJ
WHAT? Sorbonne, you cancelled on Amelia to preserve a memory of a Rio girl from Kiev (mystery girl N)? Wow. You must either be a romantic, or Miss N really worked over your dick to the point you didn't feel up to meeting Amelia. (I'm assuming you had seen my positive comments re Amelia). Did you see anyone else while in London, or just take it easy?
I am facing a sort of reverse situation. I went sort of overboard at FKK Oase last night (doing 5 sessions) and after 3 hours sleep, am coming into Kiev today with not an ounce of juice left in me_LOL. I think I will cancel the two mamba girls I had invited over this afternoon to take the edge off before hitting Rio tonight. That edge is long gone with the fluids expended in doing justice to the group of Kishinev girls I saw at Oase for the first time. But those Mamba girls are unknowns. But to pass on Amelia?
By the way, POS1043, Taya at Rio has those blond good looks almost on a par with Amelia, however I give Amelia of London much higher rating in the attitude and service department. Rosa at Rio would be another example of a very pretty girl although I heard she left Rio for true love. Margarita at Rio (dancer only) would be an example from the brunettes of a high level hottie. These girls are examples of at least 9's at Rio. Gloria has a body that will knock your socks off but her face is not as pretty as these others, although very sexy. I am very partial to Ada who has an amazing body that gets me really horny when she dances and a face that is about as pretty as a girl next door can get. Gloria, Bella, Tanya, Ada. I think are in the 8 or 9 range. There's plenty of good stuff there.
LJ
LOL!
No, I didn't see anyone in London. Just took it easy. Yes, N really worked over me well, but sure, I might be a romantic as well. (After all, without trying to be controversial here, ever since I went to Maldives with a girl from Mamba in mid July where a singer sang Moon River at a restaurant for us, I've been humming Moon River.)
Yes, I had read your review of Amelia, but even before I did so, she was one of my picks along with Grace at Supreme 69 in London. But Grace doesn't look as nice in her new photos.
Now you make me even more curious about Amelia. She could be as nice as N, but I KNOW nobody can be better than N anywhere.
I went to Rio for 5 days in a row when I was in Kiev in July (as I saw the girl from Mamba only once after we came back from Maldives) but don't recognize any of Gloria, Bella, Tanya, and Ada. Maybe they were on vacation. Besides N, those whom I thought were nice at Rio were Alla and Renata (spelling?).
FYI, Yana from Gia was one of the prettiest girls I've ever had. Also one of the best lays. But her body isn't great.
BTW, have you ever tried to meet with Rio girls during day by getting their contact info?
WHAT? Sorbonne, you cancelled on Amelia to preserve a memory of a Rio girl from Kiev (mystery girl N)? Wow. You must either be a romantic, or Miss N really worked over your dick to the point you didn't feel up to meeting Amelia. (I'm assuming you had seen my positive comments re Amelia). Did you see anyone else while in London, or just take it easy?
I am facing a sort of reverse situation. I went sort of overboard at FKK Oase last night (doing 5 sessions) and after 3 hours sleep, am coming into Kiev today with not an ounce of juice left in me_LOL. I think I will cancel the two mamba girls I had invited over this afternoon to take the edge off before hitting Rio tonight. That edge is long gone with the fluids expended in doing justice to the group of Kishinev girls I saw at Oase for the first time. But those Mamba girls are unknowns. But to pass on Amelia?
By the way, POS1043, Taya at Rio has those blond good looks almost on a par with Amelia, however I give Amelia of London much higher rating in the attitude and service department. Rosa at Rio would be another example of a very pretty girl although I heard she left Rio for true love. Margarita at Rio (dancer only) would be an example from the brunettes of a high level hottie. These girls are examples of at least 9's at Rio. Gloria has a body that will knock your socks off but her face is not as pretty as these others, although very sexy. I am very partial to Ada who has an amazing body that gets me really horny when she dances and a face that is about as pretty as a girl next door can get. Gloria, Bella, Tanya, Ada. I think are in the 8 or 9 range. There's plenty of good stuff there.
LJWow. 5 sessions to do justice to girls from Chisinau, huh? This is the second year in row I didn't go to Frankfurt. I can imagine more and more EE girls are coming to WE. I didn't see much of P4P in Chisinau last year.
Just to further clarify your comments, what rating would you give a girl like Amelia in the following links?She has a kind of "skull and crossbonesnish" face. Nonetheless body is fine.
LOL!
No, I didn't see anyone in London. Just took it easy. Yes, N really worked over me well, but sure, I might be a romantic as well. (After all, without trying to be controversial here, ever since I went to Maldives with a girl from Mamba in mid July where a singer sang Moon River at a restaurant for us, I've been humming Moon River.)
Yes, I had read your review of Amelia, but even before I did so, she was one of my picks along with Grace at Supreme 69 in London. But Grace doesn't look as nice in her new photos.
Now you make me even more curious about Amelia. She could be as nice as N, but I KNOW nobody can be better than N anywhere.
I went to Rio for 5 days in a row when I was in Kiev in July (as I saw the girl from Mamba only once after we came back from Maldives) but don't recognize any of Gloria, Bella, Tanya, and Ada. Maybe they were on vacation. Besides N, those whom I thought were nice at Rio were Alla and Renata (spelling?).
FYI, Yana from Gia was one of the prettiest girls I've ever had. Also one of the best lays. But her body isn't great.
BTW, have you ever tried to meet with Rio girls during day by getting their contact info?Daytime Meetings:
Of course I've tried to get daytime meetings but was not successful with the two girls who were my favorites. It never happened. Rosa was good about answering calls or texts, but was resistant to daytime meeting. Ada never answers her phone calls or texts. She said she lives with her mother and said she doesn't want to answer her phone from a guy when she is with her mother who thinks she works as a waitress. She too resisted offers of afternoon meetings. One might have thought such a meeting would be attractive to a girl looking to maximize her cash. Possibly its because Ada works just about every night in her drive to achieve her goals and quite simply needs to sleep. When I pressed her about coming over at 4 or 5 pm after she gets up, on the basis of what's the difference to her if I pick her up at the club or she meets me earlier, she was resistant and preferred that I come pick her up at 8pm at the club. Why were they resistant to the suggestion? Perhaps they are simply afraid of their employer which has strict rules about it.
Rio Line Up (Some Girls Worth Looking At. I'm not getting into "The Rating Game") :
Sorbonne. It's easy to miss girls at the club. Our tastes draw us to try with different girls. Also club has 120 girls in its employ, and easy to lose track of someone in that. So I'm not surprised I've not had the opportunity to take note of the two girls you mentioned. Alla and Renata. On the other hand, the girls I mentioned that you said you don't recognize. Gloria, Bella, Tanya, and Ada. Were all there at club tonight. Interesting.
It's often a matter of first come, first served, and many of the hotties are already with other guys and busy when you're there.
So it was with Ada (pretty brunette, very hot body) , Yanna (very pretty blonde, nice body) and Gloria (very sexy exotic looks blonde hair (from bottle) very good body but doesn't look as lean and hot as when I saw her in July). They were all there tonight, but were already in the clutches of others by time I arrived and they left with those guys.
Tanya was there tonight upstairs. She is one of the winsome, prettiest girls there, very good body, the slender dancer type rather than the voluptuous type. Watching her your heart can skip a beat. My last trip she said 'dancer only', so I didn't ask her out again, but she was very warm when I said Hello, so I gave her a 50 UAH tip in her bikini string as an investment in future relations and moved on.
Nikita, the drop dead brunette, was in the VIP tonight (POS1043. If this girl is not a 10, then fuck me, I don't know what is. She is prettier and hotter facially and body-wise than any Bond girl or Victoria Secret girl I've ever seen. But don't cum in your pants yet_LOL. When I was here in July she said "dancer only", so I didn't bother with her tonight, as I was focused on the possibilities for take out, rather than private dances.
Bella was there tonight upstairs. Her face looks like the 1930's famous German actress who made it to Hollywood, Marlena Dietrich, but Bella's body is very hot. I took a dance with her and she was great. Little English but we made do and I had her laughing nonetheless. She said she would go home with me, but I passed because I was after a different girl at the time and was probing her for future reference.
Taya, the true beauty I had written about in previous posts no longer works at Rio (per Dima). In her place is another very pretty blonde Taya, but whose body does not compare to the perfection of the previous iteration of Taya of Rio.
Anette is another blonde who deserves a look. She was downstairs has about as perfectly shapes an ass as one will ever see, and an awesome bikini model body, with long blond hair and a pretty face. She does go out. Her private dances are good primarily because she is so gorgeous. But as with all things in the universe, there is a dark side of the moon. She has that blunt manner of expression that so well fits with the Russian language and a strong, not so demure manner, which doesn't appeal to me. But if what you want is to fuck her, rather than converse with her, you won't get better or sexier visuals. Oh, and I almost forgot (No, I didn't) , she said she doesn't allow DATY, which was two strikes, and is why I passed on her.
Katia in the VIP tonight is one last Bond girl I will note. Her body is perfect and very sexy. Long brown hair, very cute face, but more sexy pretty than modelesque pretty. She had my blood boiling. Private dance was sizzling. I was getting in deeper and deeper to being bewitched by this one. Then it all came crashing down when she said she can't go home with me because she has her period. I believe that this is a standard blow-off line among the girls at Rio because many of the girls I've fucked started out with this line, and later, after I got on their good side, and they wanted to go with me, they said they had put in a tampon and all was green light and good to go. So I was not about to let Katia slip through my grasp without trying a little more. So I responded by telling her I love it when a girl has her period and I can't wait to go down on her_LOL. It got a good laugh from her, but then she revealed that her real reason she doesn't want DATY is because it's dangerous. So I told her that's no problem, because I will open up and put a condom on her and she will be as protected as during intercourse. I guess she couldn't think of a way out of that one, so she said that would be ok. Having gotten her to say she will come home with me (I wonder what happened to her period?) , I then said I will have to think about it, though, because maybe she just doesn't really like sex enough, or doesn't like me enough. So she begins trying to reassure me, and wants to know if I am taking her out tonight. So I said maybe tomorrow night, and so I agreed to a date with her for the next night, after she pressed me for it. But I'm really not so enthisiastic about spending $300 tomorrow night for a girl who wants me to lick her via a plastic barrier because she thinks DATY is dangerous, no matter how hot she is. I'll have to see how the repoire is between us tomorrow night and see how I feel about her then, before deciding.
Guys, there are no guarantees you will succeed in walking out of Rio with an 8 to 10 level beauty on your arm, to have and to hold in your bed that night. But the potential is certainly there. There are definitely a good number of very hot girls who would satisfy the desires of the vast majority of men. It is not as easy as picking from a list on a menu. Each girl's particulars are something that will require investigation, which will require you to invest time. But it is much easier to hit at Rio than in other places.
LJ
LJ,
"I will open up and put a condom on her and she will be as protected as during intercourse."
I don't think I'm understanding this. Are you talking about a female condom?
Did she even know what it was? I've used it only once, and the girl didn't know what it was, so she became curious and put it on. But it didn't really work well with me.
LJ,
"I will open up and put a condom on her and she will be as protected as during intercourse."
I don't think I'm understanding this. Are you talking about a female condom?
Did she even know what it was? I've used it only once, and the girl didn't know what it was, so she became curious and put it on. But it didn't really work well with me.Sorbonne, I've never even seen a female condom, much less know where to get one. I was simply trying to improvise to get to the girl's pussy. Follow me here: splitting or cutting the edge of a normal condom and tearing it down the side until it can lay flat will provide a piece of plastic that can be placed on top of the pussy that is about to be licked. If you employ the following little piece of sophistry, how can she deny you: the protection given is by the same latex barrier that she was willing to trust her pussy to in allowing you to penetrate her, since she is willing to fuck with a condom. If she is open to full sexual intercourse with a condom, how can she say no to oral sex using the same condom?
However, putting this into practice is not as simple as it sounds, since the latex barrier interferes somewhat with the normal manner of performing DATY. Conceptually, the goal of DATY is to pleasure the female by using one's tongue to stimulate around and on the clitoris until she reaches an orgasm. Part of performiing this is using the tongue and lips to find, locate, position and caress the clitoris and move it around with one's tongue, to the best effect possible, which cannot be easily done with the latex barrier in the way. So several pointers may be in order. First, it is important to apply some good water soluble lubricant (like Astroglide or the like) to the entire clitoral area before placing the latex on top. That way the clitoris and labia will be able to slide around a bit in response to the ministrations of the DATY performer's tongue, so that the female can feel things very well. Also take care not to stretch the latex too tightly, as it will prevent the foregoing. Then go ahead and give her your best, taking care to try to isolate where her clitoris is by what you can feel with your tongue through the latex. Have fun perfecting the technique.
LJ
Sorbonne, I've never even seen a female condom, much less know where to get one. I was simply trying to improvise to get to the girl's pussy. Follow me here: splitting or cutting the edge of a normal condom and tearing it down the side until it can lay flat will provide a piece of plastic that can be placed on top of the pussy that is about to be licked. If you employ the following little piece of sophistry, how can she deny you: the protection given is by the same latex barrier that she was willing to trust her pussy to in allowing you to penetrate her, since she is willing to fuck with a condom. If she is open to full sexual intercourse with a condom, how can she say no to oral sex using the same condom?
However, putting this into practice is not as simple as it sounds, since the latex barrier interferes somewhat with the normal manner of performing DATY. Conceptually, the goal of DATY is to pleasure the female by using one's tongue to stimulate around and on the clitoris until she reaches an orgasm. Part of performiing this is using the tongue and lips to find, locate, position and caress the clitoris and move it around with one's tongue, to the best effect possible, which cannot be easily done with the latex barrier in the way. So several pointers may be in order. First, it is important to apply some good water soluble lubricant (like Astroglide or the like) to the entire clitoral area before placing the latex on top. That way the clitoris and labia will be able to slide around a bit in response to the ministrations of the DATY performer's tongue, so that the female can feel things very well. Also take care not to stretch the latex too tightly, as it will prevent the foregoing. Then go ahead and give her your best, taking care to try to isolate where her clitoris is by what you can feel with your tongue through the latex. Have fun perfecting the technique.
LJHave you ever tried this method for yourself? I have a simple solution for you. Buy a pack of female condoms! I live in California and found one at the condom section of Walgreen's drug store. No, I wasn't looking for it, but it just came into my eyes, as I was trying to choose male condoms. WTF is this? The pack was rather expensive at about $18 for 5 female condoms. I don't know if you have Walgreen's in NY, but Walgreen's is all over California. And therefore, I was surprised to see female condoms being sold there, as I was not aware that it was already so commonly used!
Now, I bought it just out of curiosity; I thought, theoretically, it must provide better feeling for men than a regular male condom, as my penis would be directly thrusting against the female condom which is supposed to be adhered to the wall of the tunnel. But when I tried it with a girl in Kiev last February, I didn't think it provided much different feeling from male condoms for me, so I still have four of them left.
"I will open up and put a condom on her and she will be as protected as during intercourse."
I misunderstood this sentence because you do need to open up girls' legs really wide in order to install a female condom on her.
Anyone out there had this girl? Think she's legit?
www.kiev-companion.com
"I will open up and put a condom on her and she will be as protected as during intercourse."
I misunderstood this sentence because you do need to open up girls' legs really wide in order to install a female condom on her.I meant simply to open up the package of the condom (take it out, cut or tear it down one side, spread it out on her) and she will be protected by the condom latex during DATY, in the same manner as the latex barrier protects her during intercourse. I guess I assumed everyone would imagine and fill in the part I left out.
Perhaps just for the entertainment value, could you go into some detail as to how the female condom actually got installed into your Kiev devushka so that it adhered to the inside of her vagina walls? Does the package come with some kind of applicator to get it into position inside the devushka? Or must the man supply his "applicator" to get it in place_LOL. And describe how it is deployed on the outside of the vagina? Does it cover the clitoris and the labia too? If so it gives the woman more protection that a standard male condom which allows some extra_vaginal pubic contact. Does it give the woman protection for receiving oral sex in its normal use, or is that an application you just thought I would appreciate, given my efforts to get the girl to agree to DATY, even going so far as to agree to covered DATY just to get down there and work my magic_lol.
i meant simply to open up the package of the condom (take it out, cut or tear it down one side, spread it out on her) and she will be protected by the condom latex during daty, in the same manner as the latex barrier protects her during intercourse. i guess i assumed everyone would imagine and fill in the part i left out.
perhaps just for the entertainment value, could you go into some detail as to how the female condom actually got installed into your kiev devushka so that it adhered to the inside of her vagina walls? does the package come with some kind of applicator to get it into position inside the devushka? or must the man supply his "applicator" to get it in place_lol. and describe how it is deployed on the outside of the vagina? does it cover the clitoris and the labia too? if so it gives the woman more protection that a standard male condom which allows some extra_vaginal pubic contact. does it give the woman protection for receiving oral sex in its normal use, or is that an application you just thought i would appreciate, given my efforts to get the girl to agree to daty, even going so far as to agree to covered daty just to get down there and work my magic_lol.
as to how to apply the female condom, you had better just buy the package because it comes with an instruction. otherwise i may have to deploy my powerpoint here, which i hardly ever use.
because neither of us had ever used a female condom before, we had to struggle a little, trying different methods to put it in, with her legs wide open. but eventually i think she was able to put it in for herself.
yes, you can have a female condom cover a clitoris and labia, if you want. in this sense i think you're right; it provides a safer environment for her.
the instruction said something like,"you don't have to wait to put on the female condom until right before the intercourse. you can put it on anytime." this gave me a thought. what if i have a girl put it on before we go out for dinner? it would keep me aroused for the whole duration of dinner. but how can she [CodeWord134] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134)?
Member #4274
09-06-11, 23:31
This occurred last summer the two nights before River Palace (RP) was forced to close. I had dinner and watched a World Cup match in the restaurant before heading upstairs to the night club. It was a Saturday night and the bordello was packed. I paid the 100 UAH cover and sat in the 'no smoking' section, ordered my customary whiskey and soda while observing the room. It was dark and filled with smoke, laughter and a plethora of women. At that point a tall, well dressed guy walked by my table trying to find a place to sit. RP was packed and the only available seat was at my table. He asked me politely if he could sit there and despite the fact I wanted to keep it free in case I invited a girl to sit with me, I was in too good of a mood to say no. The whiskey was bringing out the best in me. We started to talk. The new guy was an Italian who was in Kiev for business. He was very friendly and laughed good naturedly at everything I said. I liked that he was dressed so well. He ordered us both a Campari and soda. Within 15-minutes the Italian started speaking with this very tall, lanky student who was dancing in front of the mirror next to us. She sat on the chair with him and he bought her a drink. After a while she got up and went to dance with another girl.
'What do you think about her? ' the Italian asked me.
'Yeah, she's nice' I said politely. She was very tall and skinny like a lamppost but he seemed like a nice guy and I didn't want to disappoint him. Every time she came around his face lit up. I guess she was attractive, if you like exceptionally tall and skinny women. She had nice eyes which she used with great skill to flirt with us. She had 'fuck me' eyes.
'Is she going home with you? '
'Yes, we already agreed but she wants to dance with her friend for a while' he said with a big smile.
'Good man' I said.
'Do you like her friend? '
I looked over at her. She was the polar opposite of the lamppost – short, overweight with dull eyes and wearing too much makeup.
'Not my type'
'Why not? '
'I don't know' I said not wanting to say anything mean. The whiskey was really bringing out the best of me. 'She's not a woman I would pay to have sex with'
He laughed.
At that moment a tall, busty blonde walked by our table and looked down at us. I noticed her when she walked by the first time. She had pretty face and a pleasant smile. I stood up and squeezed her arm.
'Devotchka, do you speak English? '
'Yes' she grinned.
'You are quite lovely! Can I buy you a drink? '
An hour later we were laying in bed at my flat on Mikhailivska near O'Brien's Pub. Her name was Tatyana, she was a 23-year old student of law. She told me she was from a small town near Kharkov. She had a deep accent, unlike women in Kyiv, and possessed the nicest breasts I had ever seen. Tatyana was very pleasant, eager to please and answered with complete honesty anything I asked her.
'So, from what country do you prefer men from? '
She told me gladly.
'What about Ukrainian men? ' I asked her.
'Oh, I never go home with Ukrainian men'
'Why not? '
'They are very nice when you meet them but after sex they start yelling at you about being a prostitute. They say: 'how can you sleep with foreign men, aren't you ashamed? '
'And what do you say? '
'I tell them if they would like to pay for my schooling then I will gladly stop sleeping with foreign men' we both laughed at this.
'What other men don't you like? '
'I don't go with Turkish or Germans' she said.
'Why not Germans? '
'Do you have some whiskey here? ' she asked and crawled out of bed. I fixed us both a drink and we sat naked on my sofa. She wrapped her legs in mine.
'Tatyana, you have remarkable breasts' I couldn't resist stating. Really, they were perfect.
'Yes, everyone tells me this. One time I went home from RP with an older Latvian man. He told me when I am 50-years old like him my breasts will hang to my knees so I had better enjoy them now' she laughed.
We finished out drinks and I poured us another.
'And you are very handsome. How come you are not dating a nice Ukrainian woman? ' she asked.
"But you are a nice Ukrainian woman'
'You know what I mean'
'Tatyana, sometimes a man needs the comfort of a prostitute'
She smiled at this.
'I want to 69 with you again' I said.
'OK' she smiled.
I got Tatyana's number and we went out for dinner two nights later. She introduced me to a fantastic Georgian red wine and later I enjoyed her lovely breasts again. As I lay in bed that night I wondered how my Italian friend made out with the lamppost.
Great deals on Lufthansa within Europe.
Just booked a round trip ticket to Kiev for 140 € (from Paris). Going to spend a couple of days there next weekend to visit a fresh GF contact that seems worth the trip.
I was kind of impressed with your take until I got to number 6. That is bullshit I am 31 and pull 18-21 year olds all day long.I am myself on the wrong side of my 40s and date (and screw) hot 18-22 yo girls on a regular basis. I don't know any other place on the planet apart from FSU where it is both socially acceptable and above all possible, and where pickings are so easy. However you need to tick all the boxes (appearance, style, cultural awareness, ect) in order to be successful.
I am myself on the wrong side of my 40s and date (and screw) hot 18-22 yo girls on a regular basis. I don't know any other place on the planet apart from FSU where it is both socially acceptable and above all possible, and where pickings are so easy. However you need to tick all the boxes (appearance, style, cultural awareness, ect) in order to be successful..
Dear Prosal, agree with you and for me in Ukraine, Czech Rep, Slovakia and Poland the 18-22 yo girls are great and my goal. However, in your statement please consider also financial aspects, for the moment only Ukraine is still OK for me (how long?). The other countries I mentioned before, are not any longer under my destinations for a simple reason THE PRICES, in my opinion the salary level is still in some way not European however, the prices (including the prices for the girls) are more or less in a Europe level, which for me is not acceptable. I am looking for other destinations and I use to travel to Asia as well BUT the Asian girls are not my type (with only few exceptions).
I thing after the Football them in Ukraine, this destination will not be in my plans any longer and I am looking now for some other options maybe Belarus, Russia (?) , or others; however I dislike the Visa administration for these countries; therefore any advice for other destinations is welcome. Regards
I thing after the Football them in Ukraine, this destination will not be in my plans any longer and I am looking now for some other options maybe Belarus, Russia (?) , or others; however I dislike the Visa administration for these countries; therefore any advice for other destinations is welcome. RegardsUzbekistan is a good bet, still undervisited. Mixes are unbeated there. Many persian-ethnic beauties, slavic-ethnic (but less than in Russia or Ukraine of course) , Asian-ethnic, and all the blends in-between. Add a strong culture, nice cultural side-trips from Tashkent (Silk Road cities) , a busy nightlife, a rather good and unspoiled P4P scene, and a ridiculously cheap cost of life, and you have a good alternative destination.
I am myself on the wrong side of my 40s and date (and screw) hot 18-22 yo girls on a regular basis. I don't know any other place on the planet apart from FSU where it is both socially acceptable and above all possible, and where pickings are so easy. However you need to tick all the boxes (appearance, style, cultural awareness, ect) in order to be successful.Prosal, I have come to appreciate how sharp your posts are on Eastern Europe.
My last post simply made the point that it would be difficult for a one week tourist to pull an 8 or 9 from a club without p4p.
A trip to Kiev will be more fulfilling if you plan on the exchange of money before you even arrive. Trolling nightclubs and falling into every.
Man trap will only serve to bust your balls.
The social phenomena of young women dating older men is alive and well in Eastern Europe. But a combination of certain characteristics have to come into play.
Language, social status, wealth, whatever.
A foreigner that shows up to a Kiev nightclub with monger stamped on his forehead will be complete devushka repellent unless, of course, she's a prostitute.
My last post simply made the point that it would be difficult for a one week tourist to pull an 8 or 9 from a club without p4p.You're right, but not only for a one week tourist. Many times I leaved a club alone because I screwed something up. I was too passive, too drunk or I just had bad luck selecting the wrong girls to hit on. Scoring top-level freebies in FSU clubs is a game of win and lose, anyone who claims that having a 100% success rate is BSing.
You can pull in Clubs in Kiev but you really need to spend a lot. You need to spend at least 300 euro per day on girls, accomodation, club entrance, drinks etc. Province is a worthy alternative only in very few cities and if you speak Russian.
You can pull in Clubs in Kiev but you really need to spend a lot. You need to spend at least 300 euro per day on girls, accomodation, club entrance, drinks etc. Province is a worthy alternative only in very few cities and if you speak Russian.Undoubtedly, the lifestyle of dating, dinning out, clubbing, ect, costs money and adds up quickly, especially if you are a prodigal and thirsty party-goer (my case).
Weekend of September 1 – 5.
Please see my reviews about the two days of unbridled sex that I had at Oase just before and after my weekend in Kiev, which I posted in the Oase thread of the FKK section of this board which you can access easily by clicking on the following link:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?1096-FKK-Oase-Burgholzhausen&p=1195164#post1195164
I didn't want to clutter the Kiev thread with reporting pertaining to Oase, but what I experienced there is relevant to my analysis and comparison of Kiev to FKK Oase.
Kiev and Rio.
As I wrote in a previous post I arrived in Kiev on Friday September 2, fairly depleted both from lack of rest having stayed up all night at FKK Oase Thursday night, as well as from the five sessions I had enjoyed with girls at Oase during that period (which included 4 sessions that ended in an ejaculatory climax, and the one with Roxana which had been a very nice fucking which I gave up on trying to complete to a climax as we reached the 1. 5 hour mark deciding to end that session on a high note.) I am not at the stage in life where that much sex is a norm for me at all. So I tabled the original idea of calling Mamba. Ru girls, and decided to get some rest Friday daytime, so I could better enjoy going out Friday night to Rio.
At Rio, the girls I saw Friday that I liked were:
Downstairs Bar:
Dasha. A pretty blond with a nice body in a next door girl sort of way, maybe a 7 to 8. Agreed to take out. She was a medical student with a child to support, living with her mother. I genuinely liked her. I had met her previous trip and became friendly so I considered her as a possible for the night's take home. However, I wanted to see who was in the upstairs bar and VIP. Unfortunately for me, by the time I returned back to the downstairs bar, Dasha had been taken by another guy.
Anette – tall blond with an awesome body, perfect ass, beautifully shaped legs, hips torso, breasts, a really nice looking girl with long blonde hair and a pretty face. I thought she was a 9 in looks because of her truly nice body and ass, although her facial prettiness is not on a high model level. She agreed to take out, but said no DATY. Also she spoke with a strong, brusque manner, typical of Russian culture and didn't seem the type of softer girl that I prefer, so although she was gorgeous, I told her I could only take her home if kissing pussy would be permitted. She never backed down on it, so I passed.
Upstairs Bar:
Yanna – pretty faced blond, nice body, around an 8 in my scale, she was reported on in April by Tango9001, I always wanted to take her, home, but it just never seemed to work out. Tonight was no exception as she was already busy with a customer when I got up to the upstairs bar and she was taken out by him and no longer available.
Gloria . Also blond, but more exotic than model pretty face, very hot body when I first saw her in April, but now seemed a tidbit plumper and to lack the lean lines that made her sexy to me in April, I would say she was an 8, but is a 7 now, she too was reported on by Tango9001 in April, and she too was busy with another customer and unavailable.
Ada – brunette with very hot body, cute pretty face, she's an 8 to a 9 depending on if you focus more on face or on body, I am very partial to Ada having sessioned with her numerous times, both singly and in two very memorable duos I reported on previously, she too was at the club tied up with another customer and had left, I never even saw her this trip, as they told me she didn't work Saturday night or Sunday night.
Marta – pretty face, long black hair, tall very good looking girl, great smile, good body, at least an 8. 5, she was happy enough to see me approach her with a 50 UAH tip, but later when she was sent over by Dima, she said to me she was busy now, and did so in a brusque tone, so I will not give her another chance or notice, but she is a good looker, and maybe someone else here will get to her.
Bella – very sexy blonde with a smokin' body, pretty face, I rate her an 8, she has those Betty Davis eyes, with a unique look that reminds me of film actress Marlena Dietrich from the old 1930s movies, but much prettier than the actress, and very nice sleek lines, very little English but we made do, she agreed to go home with me, but I still wanted to look further.
VIP Bar.
Nikita – awesome looking model type girl, with unquestionably a flawless sexy body, a 9 to 10 level, but dancer only.
Katia – a brunette with an awesome body, cute sexy face, a 9 level girl, who agreed to go home but no DATY, finally she agreed to allow DATY but only if done with protection, as in being covered with latex from a cut-open condom or a dental dam, I initially told her I would take her out Saturday night, but ultimately I passed on her on the basis of no DATY.
I then went back to the upstairs bar where I saw:
Anastacia – racy black—haired sexy girl with sleek body and nice face, a 7 to 8 level girl, agreed to go home with me, but it was 3am, so she wanted only 2 hours and to come back to club at 5am, I said no way, so I passed.
Tanya – a 9 to 10, beautiful pretty face, perfect shaped ass and body, but dancer only, she said she would only go out of club to go to a disco, but not for sex.
Lea – a slender sexy brunette, perhaps an 8, I was told by Dima she was good, so I asked her to come over, but when I got back from private dance with Anastacia, Lea was already busy with another customer.
And then I met
Lera – a pretty 20 yr old blonde with a great smile and personality, good body, ass just a little plump, overall a very sexy shaped girl, an 8. 5 level girl, I liked her very much. She didn't speak much English so I decided to use the Braille method of communication and to touch her by offering her a shoulder massage which I am quite good at, having learned a few tricks from the best shoulder massage ladies at all the strip clubs in NY. Lera loved the massage, and fell into my arms very comfortably, There was a good vibe. When I asked her if she was coming home with me there was a sweet smile and a nod. Unfortunately though she said she couldn't come home with me then (4am) because the club closes soon and she has a rehearsal tomorrow Saturday at her theater as she is an actress, so she must get some sleep. She asked me to come get her Saturday night.
Lessons to be learned from Going home Friday night empty—handed.
I should have taken Dasha from downstairs, I should have taken Bella or Anastacia or Lea from upstairs, but no, on with the quest, until I ended up spending time with beautiful Lera, and then went home alone. If there is there a lesson to be learned, it is to not assume that a girl who agrees to go home with you, will still be available a few minutes later if you go looking for other girls. You need to get to the decision making point no later than 1 or 2am, because girls who want to get back to club at 5am will start limiting the time they will go out to less than 3 hours, as happened with Anastacia, or can't stay later at your apartment because they have shit to do the next day at university or whatever. In order to get to decision making time by 1 or 2am, you need to get to the club early (like 8 or 9pm) in order to get a seat, and have time to look at the line up in the different bars, unless you don't need to do such global research and you are willing to just stay in one bar and choose from the selection there.
Saturday Daytime.
Called Linda from Mamba. Ru – fake pic, no English, but blonde slender girl who showed up had a good body and a cute girl next door face, a 7 level girl, so I kept her and screwed out all my frustrations from not taking home anyone from Rio Friday night, now I was able to get some sleep.
Saturday night and Sunday night at Rio – my affair with Lera.
Although Lera had asked me to come take her out Saturday night, and I was coming back to Rio Saturday night, I was hoping to get Gella and Ada from my last duo, so I wasn't sure if I was going to go with Lera, but in the end neither Gella or Ada came to work Saturday night, so I decided to pass on Katia from VIP room, and to focus on Lera on Saturday night. I told her I wanted her to come with me.
I had been in PM contact with some other ISG guys (The Knight, Immy007 and myself) and we had agreed to meet up at Rio around 8:30-ish. Apologies to the one fellow (Webvantage) who I screwed up my Kievstar number when I sent it to you, so you were driving some other dude crazy with your calls to liljoey. But we met finally on Sunday night. It was a pleasure meeting all you guys. Forgive me for my preoccupation with getting into Lera's pants and leaving Rio early. Thanks to TheKnight for the help in Russian to communicate to Lera, the girl of my dreams, the terms of our engagement.
She ended up asking her friend, the new Taya, to also come help her translate. I wanted her to come for the rest of the night and not to have to go back to club at 5am, but to be able to sleep in and take a nice breakfast in the morning and take her shopping after that (that was the bait for her to stay). She said she wanted to. We agreed on a fee of $500 to cover the whole night plus the additional time. I told her that I wanted to enjoy the day with her. She said she didn't have to leave me until 7pm Sunday, because she would need to get ready for work Sunday night.
So I said goodbye to my fellow ISG'ers and left Rio rather early, and Lera and I went back to my apartment, stopping on the way to do some food shopping. She mentioned she had a touch of a sore throat but I didn't think anything of it at the time, and simply bought her some herbal tea so she could have something hot and soothing to drink, along with all the other goodies I bought for her. Unfortunately, her symptoms progressed as the night wore on, and after we were already naked and fooling around in bed, ultimately there was a problem, and about 4am she said she didn't feel well and needed to go home to her mother to take care of her, but that she would return at 9am, after she got some sleep. Although in the back of my mind I smelled a rat, or a good actress, I decided to be trusting and believe in her genuine-seeming professions of warm feelings for me. So when 9am rolled around and she hadn't returned, I called her to find that she was still asleep. I told her I had set my alarm for 8:30am so as to be ready to greet her at 9am. Anyway she apologized and said she would be there soon. She showed up at 11am. I was surprised she came because I was leaning toward believing I had been scammed. But there she was, with a great big hug and kisses for me. But then she said she can't stay the whole day because her mother is taking her to a doctor at the hospital for a check up at 1pm. So my heart sank again. I invited her to come back after her doctor's appointment, but I didn't build up my hopes.
When Lera left, I suddenly remembered that I had a hot blonde, Irina, I had seen before in July, who was scheduled to come at 4pm Sunday, and which had been arranged by emails weeks before. How could I have forgotten? Well that was three hours of fun with blond beautiful Irina, who speaks English perfectly and was great fun, BBBJ, DATY and all the fun positions. Irina left at 7pm, so I ate dinner and got ready to go to Rio again Sunday night.
I was unsure what I would say to Lera. I felt that I had given her a large amount of $500 and she had not given me the agreed amount of time, nor had we had sex, and that she owed me back. On the other hand, I really liked the girl and was massively attracted to her looks and personality, as well as how much she seemed to like me. She had said she had only worked at Rio a week and that I was the first guy she agreed to go home with. Perhaps she was having a first—timer's trepidations of having sex with a stranger for money. I couldn't find it in my heart to hold it against her if that was what had happened. Anyway, I was told by the managers that Ada and Gella would both not be at work Sunday night either. So I was looking around for a substitute.
I spotted Tamara – a black haired beauty with very pretty face, good English and nice body who had given me a sizzling Private Dance on a visit earlier in the year. I had never taken her home, but she had agreed to go. She was a maybe.
But then Lera appeared on stage and my heart melted in the big beautiful smile she gave me. After her dance she came over and lovingly kissed and hugged me. I could sense she was aiming for me to take her home again. I asked her why she didn't come back after her doctor's appointment. She said her mother made her rest in bed. I accepted that because I wanted to believe in her. I told her that I had to leave at 6am for the airport, and that I could only stay with her until 5am. She said she wanted to go right now and that $300 would be ok, even though it was still early as the club had just opened, and there were a lot more than 3 hours until 5am, and this would make up for last night when she didn't feel well and couldn't stay. I asked if tonight we would have sex? Maybe she wouldn't feel good again? She reassured me that tonight was the night. Damn, I love the girl, so what could I do, but say yes, of course you are coming home with me again!
What a wise decision I made by being patient and kind with her. It paid off in spades. I had one of the most fun nights with her Sunday night. I think she genuinely does like me a lot, and we had great repoire together. I used Google Translate to communicate with her despite her lack of English.
Lera wanted to make a Jacuzzi, and the apartment had a two person Jacuzzi. But what happened when I let this playful little girl loose in my Jacuzzi was just like something I saw on a sitcom once. Does anyone remember the episode of the 1950s TV comedy show called 'I Love Lucy' where Lucy overloads a washing machine with detergent, and the laundry room and soon the whole house fills with soap suds and white foam. Well that's Lera. She's the Ukrainian Lucy. She filled the Jacuzzi with hot water, so hot you couldn't put your foot in it. Then she was standing there with the hand held shower head shooting cold water in the spot where she was trying to get it cool enough for her to put first one foot in and then the other to stand, and then to be able to sit down in the very hot water. I winced at the thought of what would happen to my balls when I had to sit in the Jacuzzi with her. Then I saw her take a small bottle of liquid soap and empty the entire bottle into the Jacuzzi. We finally both got into the hot water. Well, you can imagine what happened when we put the jacuzzi jets on. The water began to churn up soap suds that began to mount higher and higher above the level of the water and was threatening to spill over into the apartment. I was laughing inside at the similarity of this girl's antics with Lucy.
And then we got into bed. The sex was great. She is so pretty and has a truly beautiful body, and a sweet way about her. But this is my biased opinion because I think I'm nuts about her. The bare facts are that she refused not only DATY, but also refused to give a blow job at all. No oral sex at all. I was shocked at this refusal, but refused to let it ruin my getting into her beautiful pussy with my dick. She gave a long and luxurious hand job to replace the blow job, and when I said I had had enough, I put the condom on and entered her. It was immensely satisfying to have sex with this girl that I had wanted for so long.
Then about 3:30am she started saying that she has no money and that she needs to go back to the Rio club to collect her share because she had not been able to go back to the club Saturday night because she had been sick. I was disappointed that she would go before 5am as agreed, but I realized that she was correct. So she left at about 4am.
Having gone through this whole experience with Lera, despite how much I like her, now knowing in advance that she has a problem even giving a covered blowjob, let alone permitting DATY, and that she has a no oral sex rule, I would not pay to take her out of Rio again, because those limitations are ridiculous to accept in a place like Rio and Kiev.
COMPARISON OF KIEV TO FKK.
There you have it. My best sex in Kiev this trip was Irina, a girl not from Rio. From Rio I got nothing this trip except for $800 worth of dates on 2 nights with Lera which only included one session of a handjob / intercourse.
This of course was not Rio's fault, but mine in hesitating on Dasha, Bella and Anastacia, whom I could have had, and choosing instead to focus for 2 of my 3 nights on Lera, a girl who in the end did not put out like others at Rio I have taken home. Sometimes you choose well. Sometimes not.
Comparing this record, or even my better trips to Kiev where I did nail hotties from Rio each night, with the prodigious amounts of sex I had on both visits to FKK Oase, it is patently obvious that the best sex bang for your buck is at the FKK.
What about comparison of the quality of the girls?
I must say that at FKK Oase there were a good few girls that were on a very pretty level with very good bodies, who could be rated 8 to 9's also. I think Barbi (Hungarian brunette) at Oase is a 9, Roxana (Romanian brunette) is an 8, Joanna (Romanian black haired beauty) is a 9. And so on.
Therefore, since the FKK Oase has some legitimate 8's and 9's, it becomes a harder argument to make for focusing on Kiev trips.
Are there girls in Kiev that are more beautiful than the girls at the FKK's? I believe everyone would agree that Kiev has more girls that are more beautiful than the best girls at the FKK Oase.
But the real question to be asked about Kiev is what is the likelihood of having a frequent sexual encounter with one of those Kiev girls who are more beautiful than the best FKK girls? Because if you can't get to them and have them in your bed without too much hassle and with a reasonable enough price, then their existence in Kiev is irrelevant to you.
The argument has been that the existence of places like River Palace (in the past) and now Rio (in the present) and maybe Mandarin (in the future) make it easier to get a high level beauty. However, even though it is true that Rio has high level beauties, it seems of late that the top lookers are new girls who are dancers only. The girls who are available for take out at Rio did not currently include any 10's that I was able to meet. It is probably a matter of debate whether any of the girls available currently for take out could be classed as a 9. So what we are really dealing with as of Rio's current line up as it existed on the first weekend of September 2011, is take out girls in the 8 to 9 range.
Well at the FKK Oase there were also some girls in the 8 range, and they are available at 50 Euro / half hour, or 100 Euro / hour, with no 3 hour minimum like Rio.
So if you are looking for a large quantity of sex with girls who in the level of 8's, you should go to the FKK's and check it out. You won't be sorry.
However, you can get 8's in Kiev much cheaper than at FKK's because it is possible to get to such quality level girls through hit or miss trial and error using internet sites like mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com where the prices can range down to $100 / hr, to $75 / hr or even to $50 / hr. Most girls coming to your door will not be 8's, but some will. Also, you can try your hand at meeting girls in the streets, shops and bars and clubs who look like 8s or 9s to you. No guarantees but you might hit. If you are willing to pay high prices like $200 or $300 / hour you can try to get real high level p4p beauties in the clubs.
My conclusion is that Kiev has a higher potential for greater beauty than an FKK, but a far greater risk of failure to achieve that goal, combined with a risk of poor service. To most guys on this thread, it is worth the risk to play in Kiev because it is such fun anyway, it is cheap fun if you want to go for the lower level looking girls for $50 / hr, and you may be able to snag a real dream beauty for reasonable cash outlay (whether p4p or just dating costs) – if you are lucky. If you are not lucky, you might go home from a 3 day weekend in Kiev like I did, having had sex only three times with one mamba 7, one 8 that I knew previously, and one 8. 5 from Rio who didn't give a BJ.
Therefore a one day pass at the FKK can make your trip a sure thing, even if the odds worked against you in Kiev.
LJ
At last I have the chance to get away for a few days and indulge my fantasies. I have been stocking up on Viagra and reviewing Mamba for months and lining up myfavourites. Last time I had bad experience with top modals sending fakes all the time and it looks like this is turning into the same. I must have started off with twenty or so certainties on my list, but when it comes to the crunch of making dates by phone, only about three have phones that seem to work or will continue to correspond. So I am down to three. Flight tomorrow. We will see how it goes. I intend to keep this little diary to record my successes and failures between Friday and Wednesday next week when its all over.
Weekend of September 1 – 5.
Saturday Daytime.
Called Linda from Mamba. Ru – fake pic, no English, but blonde slender girl who showed up had a good body and a cute girl next door face, a 7 level girl, so I kept her and screwed out all my frustrations from not taking home anyone from Rio Friday night, now I was able to get some sleep.
LJThanks for extensive overview. It is realistic about the ups and downs of a Rio-visit. I would not spent so much time inside there, though, as you seem to have done. But everyone must do what he likes. You forgot to tell how much you paid when Linda came (she's on my list when I next go to Kiev). Can you remember? Thanks in advance
Thanks for extensive overview. It is realistic about the ups and downs of a Rio-visit. I would not spent so much time inside there, though, as you seem to have done. But everyone must do what he likes. You forgot to tell how much you paid when Linda came (she's on my list when I next go to Kiev). Can you remember? Thanks in advanceDear Roll Buzz,
I will address your interest in Linda at Mamba. Ru below, but first I will address the advice you gave about not spending time in Rio.
WHY RIO?. REVIEWING THE BASICS.
My reasons for spending time in Rio during the evenings of a short visit have been spelled out many times in prior posts I have made on this thread, which review all girl options in a comprehensive manner, and point out that for seeking evening p4p on a high level of beauty, compared to the other options, Rio is currently the best option because of (1) efficiency, and (2) prices. If you have not reviewed the prior analyses I have posted, I recommend it to you.
In brief, the internet sites waste a lot of your time with sending inappropriate looking girls that you have to send away, and all the time spent setting up that date and waiting for the girl, etc. Is all wasted time. And then you must begin again with another girl who may or may not be worthy. You need to be very lucky to encounter a good enough looking girl using this method. Most often, because you are horny and frustrated, you will compromise severely on looks and have sex with a girl who is merely average looking, and maybe a 6 or 7. It is highly unlikely you will attain a girl on the level of the beauties you can get to at a place like Rio. (and yes, at Rio there are also girls of more average looks, but we are ignoring them). Using internet sites like mamba and top-modals and others wastes a lot of time and I only recommend it for daytime. Because at night there are better options.
By comparison to the internet process, it is more efficient to get to a girl you like, when you can see what the girl looks like in advance, before you spend any time on trying to get her into your bed, which is the case when you approach girls in the street or malls, as well as in nightclubs at night. However with regard to girls in the street and in nightclubs, there is another source of inefficiency, because you are not able to know in advance whether they are just regular girls who you will have to date for a while until you can "get some", if ever, or whether they are pros who will ask ridiculous high prices for p4p that you have no intention of paying, and all your time spent on them was wasted. Also, if you're not interested in dating a girl for a few dates before sex, and you want to get down to sex immediately, perforce you need to find only those girls who are interested in p4p, which will take a lot of time and waste a lot of time, because you can't just come out and ask every girl you want if she will accept money to have sex with you and how much, because it is the surest way to get your face slapped by the girl, or worse, get beat up by her friends who may be nearby enough to address the outrage that you dared to assume that the princess was a prostitute. So you must tread lightly and use good judgment in order to be a successful monger in a civilian setting. Mostly, although you might be able to bring up the topic of sex safely enough, it is the better policy to let the girl bring up the issue of money. Lastly, the prices being asked in the nightclubs by pros are very, very high, sometimes starting at $400 / hour or $300 / hour for the hot ones. These prices are way higher than prices at Rio.
For the foregoing reasons, there is no better night-time option than Rio. Rio is the more efficient and more cost effective option, because prices are controlled at $100 / hour rate, albeit with a 3 hour minimum, and all the girls are collected there right in front of you and you don't have to chase all over the malls and streets or across the nightclubs to find the professional girls, since they are paraded right in front of you. The time waste in Rio consists of finding out if a girl is "dancer only" or goes out, which can be ascertained instantly by a question directed to one of the managers, as well as the time spent to wait for the line up to appear on stage. Yes, it would be much better if there were a catalogue with photos we could choose from, like at K-5 in Prague, but this is a strip club after all, so I guess we will have to put up with waiting to see the dancers appear on stage. It's not a perfect world. And yet, even in this strip club environment, where you can efficiently get to gorgeous p4p girls at reasonable prices, it is possible to err in that the quality of service is an unknown before you get the girl in your bedroom. But since the quality of service issue affects all the options for girls in Kiev, it cannot be a factor to recommend one forum for girls over another.
And yet, for all the truth of the foregoing, and the fact that in my opinion Rio is the best place in Kiev currently to monger for p4p in the evenings from both efficiency and price standpoints, it is still possible to screw up by making the mistakes I made Friday night when I went home alone, although that outcome was entirely avoidable had I not set out to see the entire line up of every bar in the place before choosing and not watching the clock. Just get there early enough, interview or private dance with enough girls who appeal to you, and be mindful of making a decision to take out before 1 or 2am, and you should be ok there. I would have been writing a review about the wonderful Dasha had I not made these mistakes, instead of pointing them out to my fellow mongers.
LINDA@MAMBA.
For your benefit, since you are intending to contact her, I will include some additional details, which are worthwhile for you to know in advance.
Here is her link so the guys can understand who we're talking about: http://www.mamba.ru/lindavasina/?afolder=albums
Although the lady I spoke to on the phone as "Linda" spoke English well, the girl who came had no English skills. But I have taken another look at her photos on the mamba. Ru site, and I retract what I wrote. I now believe the pictures are true. It is just that in the pictures the girl appears a bit shorter than the taller slender girl I saw. But that could be the result of moving the edges of a photo during editing without maintaining the same length / width proportions, which could account for her more squat appearance in the photos. But looking at the face, I can see that it was the same face. Her hair was not down and flowing nicely as in the photos, but rather wrapped in some sort of wraparound headress which made her look like a cleaning lady (my first impression). But as I looked at her, I could see her body was ok, and her facial features cute, and I was quite horny at that point a few hours after getting home from Rio empty-handed.
But here is the part I didn't write about before. It concerns her demeanor. When she arrived she acted very hesitant, and was looking down at the ground like a little girl who was just scolded. I tried to make small talk and put her at ease in the apartment, but in the whole time she would not raise her eyes to look at me. I found her behavior weird. She looked distracted and irritated. I asked her if she wanted to go. She said no, she will stay. I asked if anything was wrong. She said no she just didn't want to get up that early from bed to come at 10:30am. I asked her if she was up the whole night and what time she normally gets up. She said she gets up around 2pm. However, even though her story was that she was just cranky because she was tired, it didn't add up to her behavior which seemed like she was resentful of something, or perhaps ashamed. Maybe she didn't want to be doing this work and was conflicted about it because she wanted the money. I tried to imagine reasons that would match her behavior. Anyway, I tried to put her at ease by being as sweet to her as I can be. But as a precaution to this whole thing blowing up, when she asked for the 600 UAH up front, I said that I will agree to place it on the table for her to take only when she leaves. She agreed to that. She refused to permit DATY. She refused to do a BBBJ, and wanted only covered BJ. She didn't want BBBJ, even for more money. So I had her lay next to me and start with a hand job using some lubricant. Then when I was ready she took the condom and put it on me and started a covered BJ which looked nice to watch, but was short-lived as I had feared might be the case with her. She stopped doing the BJ after a short time and looked at me as if to say, now we have sex? Rolling with the flow, I didn't complain because I thought she might not complete the session, so I fucked her, but not a quick fuck, in order to make up for the shortness of the BJ, and finally she was getting into it and smiling. At the end she said she could come back tomorrow. I asked tomorrow you let me kiss your pussy? She smiled and nodded "yes".
So with regard to this girl, being cheery early in the day is not her strong point. Beware of the limitations she imposed on services, and if you want more services than a quick covered BJ and a fuck, get them cleared with the lady who answers the phone in English as to what you expect in terms of services, so that the girl will have been told in advance what is expected, as she speaks no English.
LJ
Hi Liljoey,
Thanks for you swift and elaborate answere. I totally agree with you that in Rio you get to see the (mostly gorgeous) girl you can ask to escort you home, and also will not totally disappoint you in bed. I have had six in last 24 months, and the sex was always passionate (see previous posts). I can also totally understand that it is very enjoyable for men to watch and chat with as many dancers as possible, but I think if we went together I would be first to leave because I have not patience to wait for them all when I found one I like. But your report will be my breakfast reading the morning I arrive in Kiev as preparation for one more visit in Rio (as I have dutyfully read this forum for the last 24 months). An I will think of you if Dasha is available and treat her like I think a monger should. I have bin to three other stripclubs in K and always returned to Rio because like you say I find it one of the most effective way to satisfactory night in bed. And I want to mention that I have no stakes or shares or other interests in this institution!
I got the number from Linda through this banner on the top of the Mamba-site (when in searching-mode). People who want immediate contact can have their photo and a short meessage in this banner, and it is possible that the girls are managed. I am, like you seem to be, alert to girls that might be coming to a meeting against their will and maybe because of some pressure (other than their own financial or sexual urge). Anyway I will be remindful of this if and when I call Linda, who seems to be nice. Many here among us complain from false photos, in Kiev I have never experienced this with Mamba or RomanticRussia (another dating site) , correction: once a girl told me the photos were not hers, and sent me per amail her personal photos. Another negative aspect of this homepage'-banner is that these girls are mostly totally professionals. It takes out the adrenalin I feel when meeting a girl I do not really know if she is into me. Same applies to Rio-girls to a cerain extend.
All the best, be nice, be kind, Rollo
You're right, but not only for a one week tourist. Many times I leaved a club alone because I screwed something up. I was too passive, too drunk or I just had bad luck selecting the wrong girls to hit on. Scoring top-level freebies in FSU clubs is a game of win and lose, anyone who claims that having a 100% success rate is BSing.Passive and / or drunk. 90% guaranteed not to pull as you know.
Bad luck we can't help, nor being 17 years the wrong side of 30 but with the right game everything is possible.
When it looks too good to be true. W / s is B&S.
http://escort-models.com/en/girls/anal-sex/kiev/yanochka_75.html
Yanochka is not 19 why / o from Kiev. This is 27 why / o Orsi a Hegre IG from Hungary
http://www.kindgirls.com/gallery/hegre/orsi/3281/
Hey LJ,
I responded to your post in FKK section but will paste the last paragraph here:
You know why I prefer Kiev to FKKs? I think it's mainly because FKKs are like buffet restaurants, and it's not possible to enjoy each item to the fullest. For example, I don't think it's possible to get phone numbers of some girls and meet with them outside FKKs. After the sessions, it's basically over. At least that's my experience.
Member #4491
09-10-11, 08:41
One way to fight back is to use http://www.tineye.com/ And report all fakes as fraud profiles. If everyone does this every time on Mamba, Flirt, etc, it will perhaps be at least a little bit less interesting to spam these sites with fake profiles. In addition the moderation pressure will increase on the sites and the site owners will be more motivated to deal with the "crime".
Wouldn't it be a good idea to simple have a list of freelancers / escorts that anyone can update after a visit? I understand that everyone wish to keep one or two gems secret for next trip, but surely there will be a bunch that was OK but still girls a monger will not bother to spend time on again. I have almost zero experience in Kiev but plan to go back so If anyone else than me thinks this could work, I will be happy to try to start the "Kiev verified escorts list"-thread. No sense in all of us reinventing the wheel every time we want to try some freelance fun.
B.
Sept 9th.
Memoirs of ageing monger (contd).
9pm.
A visit to the Red Lion-on the corner of Krestchatic street-100g entrance-50g for a coke-50g for each dance-the semi naked dancing girls just come over and don't ask-just land on you and rub themselves up on your cock. Those dancers really know how to excite-maybe there us life in the old dog. Before taking the viagra-I fancied Alison- (Elena).I couldn't resist her technique.
She let me touch her 'I want to fuck you' I said-I don't think she understood, but we worked it out for$200-to walk her to the flat. I didn't want to let myself down, so swallowed 100mg of viagra, waited 15mins and walked her back to Baseina street the for a really good slightly shy naïve entnusiastic lay-I didn't disgrace myself-if I were eighteen I would have married her. You just don't get such a warm loving shag in the uk. Trouble is maybe I didn't give the viagra long enough to work or maybe it's just me But I didn't quite achieve rock hardness and the condom slipped onto the glans. There's a worry I suppose and cleaning up I saw a trace of blood on one of the rubbers. I wished I hadn't gone down on her-maybe just the remnants of a recent period though-this is such a dangerous game. Smelt a bit fishey down there too-which is not a good sign. When I got her into the light plenty of acne marks but a nice girl apparently and young (23) good looking, tall and slim with lovely natural breasts. A sweet girl. It's awful to think of these lovely girls struggling as they must-what a world.
Now the horrible after effects of the viagra to cope with.
11. 30pm.
Took a couple of paracetemol-and some sinex for the congestion-a long soak in the bath produced the towel rail erection I should have had an hour ago-rang Dolly Salon Massage-Victoria and Anna arrived within 20 minutes $140 plus $20 tip Anna petite gipsy, Victoria well orooortioned solid girl-they are so uninhibited these girls, sex is just as natural as having a crap. Watched while they kissed-and fondled But couldn't get then to stroke each others pussies-just their own-now after much huffing and puffing produced an orgasm-I will be wrecked tomorrow I am too old for this malarky.
12. 47 must get food somewhere.
Sleep at 2am
September 10.
Saturday.
Just spent the day recovering from viagra hangover-it has been said elsewhere but the pussy per square inch is dense here-guaranteed to see at least half a dozen good lookers every few minutes you walk around-my theory is that during the war the Nazis euthanised all ugly women as part of some perverted agenda. Either that or lack of food has kept them thin. The skin is immaculate, they obviously spend a lot of time making up and looking fashionable,
Generally tall, slim with fine legs set off with high heels is the rule not the exception, what a lovely change from the difficult unkempt english chav puddings back home. In the evening walked round Arena Park-lots of totty hanging around, wandering around, sitting around-some halfway decent eating opportunities too. A hot chocolate in Premier Palace bar. Easy to work up a sweat it's so hilly walking about and the weather is humid-maybe weird radioactive residue from Chernobal. Up to the eighth floor for a coffee, some ambitious hard bitten hookers sitting about waiting to descend-I hate that-got out quick.
Sept 11 Sunday.
Woke up with a hard on, rang Dolly Salon to send the little small-breasted Anna I met the night before last-but and / a. However she had another nice one she could send-I asked if I could massage the girl-seemed ok-would she kiss-'discretionanary' I was told-I said I'd leave the apartment door open and she could strip and join me in bed. Alena arrived 20 mins later-tall, blond, flawless, natural and uninhibited, I stroked her slowly and lovingly for five minutes while she lay on her front. Kissing gently parting her legs and tonguing her, she turned and gave me the softest kisses descending to around my bits. Bought me to a climax and I came happily. Gave her a much aporeciated box of chox I'd brought plus $60 and a £10 tip. Walked her to the street and bought some soap from 'Lush' (watch out for this place. 80g for two bits of soap is crazy price) felt proud walking with her and parted with a hug and a kiss. They are just so pleasant and nice these girls. Or maybe it's the money. Ate at the caff. Up the road-huge choice of hearty healthy home cooking £5. Wandered about for a few hours. A couple of coffees at street cafes. Designer shops everywhere even M and S. Superb meal. Red caviar in little pancakes, a beer and ricotta pancakes in mushroom sauce-about £5. Bavk to the apartment and watched tv and crashed. Tomorrow will check out the Premier palace pool and gymn.
Sept 11 Sunday.
Woke up with a hard on, rang Dolly Salon to send the little small-breasted Anna I met the night before last-but and / a. However she had another nice one she could send-I asked if I could massage the girl-seemed ok-would she kiss-'discretionanary' I was told-I said I'd leave the apartment door open and she could strip and join me in bed. Alena arrived 20 mins later-tall, blond, flawless, natural and uninhibited, I stroked her slowly and lovingly for five minutes while she lay on her front. Kissing gently parting her legs and tonguing her, she turned and gave me the softest kisses descending to around my bits. Bought me to a climax and I came happily. Gave her a much aporeciated box of chox I'd brought plus $60 and a £10 tip. Walked her to the street and bought some soap from 'Lush' (watch out for this place. 80g for two bits of soap is crazy price) felt proud walking with her and parted with a hug and a kiss. They are just so pleasant and nice these girls. Or maybe it's the money. Ate at the caff. Up the road-huge choice of hearty healthy home cooking £5. Wandered about for a few hours. A couple of coffees at street cafes. Designer shops everywhere even M and S. Superb meal. Red caviar in little pancakes, a beer and ricotta pancakes in mushroom sauce-about £5. Bavk to the apartment and watched tv and crashed. Tomorrow will check out the Premier palace pool and gymn.Limarian,
Wait a moment. Aren't girls from massage parlors supposed to give you classic massage before erotic massage? So you bypassed it. And she gave you a blowjob? Is this a norm? Is it not supposed to be handjob only?
Limarian,
Wait a moment. Aren't girls from massage parlors supposed to give you classic massage before erotic massage? So you bypassed it. And she gave you a blowjob? Is this a norm? Is it not supposed to be handjob only?I didn't bother with the classic massage. I'm sure I could have asked for one. It wasn't a blow job. Like full 'sex, you won't get that in any Kiev salon or 'massage service' anywhere in my experience. She just gave an exciting tour around the area. Better in a way. More arousing.
DoctorOral
09-12-11, 14:04
So, while Limarian chose Dolly (which is a place I love) , I was probably knocking on the door and couldn't get in since Lima was being beaten by the superb ones there.
Went to Chocolate which I wrote about before. They used to be in an old shit place and have great girls, now they are in a great location on Krechatic, the apartment is shit, no atmosphere. And the girls are horrible. In fact, I went quite late and wasnt sure if 2 of them were already dead or just had a mask on. I thought about walking out, I should have done so!
(the worst part. I was there before. Same experience. But came back. This time, I swear, I left for good!)
September 12. Monday.
I simply don't want any more sex now-after just one fuck one double massage and one single massage it's all over and I'm despunked and relaxed. Well maybe just one more busty blond if I can find one tonight.
Decided to splash out on an afternoon at Premier Palace gymn and pool-an outrageous 300g. But nice. Got scammed for a pineapple juice at the pool bar-menu said 25g turned out to be 125g! They explaind 25g was for 5ml-a finger. Kiev is not a cheap place if you want to do nice stuff. A coffee watching the endless parade of high heeled lovelies. A burger at Macdonalds on Kreschatic.
My last realistic night-ordered Nastaya from Mamba $100 looks pretty-I will take 125mg viagra and see if there's something left for a massage tomorrow morning with little Anna from Dolly. It's so fucking hot here.
Nastaya said she's not available after all. Tried leaving several messages to Mamba favourites but various excuses-it's always like this-you need plan 'be' 'see' and 'd' because you never get your first choice-eventually, the only available girl was one I didn't really fancy anyway-even Anna wasn't available for a massage. Theres always Red Lion takeaway I suppose-or a blow job out the back-at least that's what I'd expect for 400g.
Unless they happen to be online when you need them there's not much hope of getting a Mamba girl synchronised. Sods Law that after much searching two mailed me at the same time. Well, lets see what 125mg of viagra does. I wanted the skinny dark haired one in the pics. When I rang the girl ominously said-'which do you want'-a bait and switch I expect-oh well-let's see anyway-if I have any energy after I may get a massage and / or a few lap dances using my free VIP pass at Red Lion. I really should have seen Alison again-the best most GFE fuck I've ever had-what more could I want-endless variety I suppose.
I suppose it's nerves or valium come down from two hours ago, but I feel weak as a kitten.
What a downer. That's the second time Mamba has scammed me. I will never use them again-the girl that arrived by Kiev standards I would put at a 3 with nothing to commend her-certainly not the girl in the photo-first claimed 'no english'-then 'no kissng' although I made that clear in my mail-then arguing about the money and wanting more for the taxi. Gave her $75 and 100g for a taxi-who needs it. I had no desire to fuel the viagra once in the bed but, after getting her to squeeze and slap me a bit- (always brings out the animal) I managed to give her a respectable banging nevertheless-not particularly enjoyable and now 24 hours rinsing the chemicals out before I can feel normal again.
1. 05am.
Went for a walk-the town has cooled down thankfully, tipped a couple of the local drunks, rang Dolly and they promised 'petite brunette with lovely breasts' (60$) a pretty but 'distant' girl showed up-I couldn't get excited, there was no engagement, after having come an hour ago, in spite of being stiff from the viagra there was.
A lot of hard manual work to get over the hill this time. A nice chat with her after and munched up the jar of red caviar (77g) with some crackers and crashed out to dream deep disturbing dreams.
Member #4491
09-13-11, 13:44
Limarian,
I really enjoy your reports. You should try Cialis or the Andros ones. I do not feel good from Viagra either.
B.
Member #4243
09-14-11, 03:20
Having done the german fkk clubs a number of times I am thinking of new ideas for another trip. I have a question regarding Rio club. My parents are egyptian me being born in england. I have a middle eastern / mediterranean look in my 30's and well dressed etc.
I would like to know if Rio have a friendly door policy towards non white customers such as myself and specifically if anyone has seen male customers in Rio similar to my race or near to. The reason I ask is because certain clubs may be a bit funny as to who they let.
In and not, and I would hate to travel all the way to Kiev from england only to find out the bouncers at Rio would not take kindly to me and not let me in.
Thanks for all help
DoctorOral
09-14-11, 07:39
Look Mohab,
You will have fun in Kiev, no matter what. And you DO NOT rely on Rio. I have been following all this Rio stuff over the past weeks, and seriously, I do not understand any of that. Fucking a 11, then fucking a 12 out of 10, or a 15.
Go to any club, main street, restaurant, bar, shopping center, and grab a "solid" 7-9, wine her, dine her. And hope that her attitude is as GF as you want it to be. Chances are high for that if you know how to play game!
Act polite, don't booze, just drink a glass of classy wine, and have a good time in bed!
Having done the german fkk clubs a number of times I am thinking of new ideas for another trip. I have a question regarding Rio club. My parents are egyptian me being born in england. I have a middle eastern / mediterranean look in my 30's and well dressed etc.
I would like to know if Rio have a friendly door policy towards non white customers such as myself and specifically if anyone has seen male customers in Rio similar to my race or near to. The reason I ask is because certain clubs may be a bit funny as to who they let.
In and not, and I would hate to travel all the way to Kiev from england only to find out the bouncers at Rio would not take kindly to me and not let me in.
Thanks for all help
Sept 13 Tuesday.
Hey Ho, back to London tomorrow. Today a vicious attack of either the 125mg viagra overdose hangover, or some sort of mini food poisoning / irradiation fever-maybe from the pot of red caviar. Headache / ache-feel like I have been run over and then reversed over. Stayed in bed most of the day crapping frequently-still, I have managed to keep the batting average of sexual experiences going over the week of debauchery, now back to being sensible. The whole deal, including mongering, accommodation, Wizz Air and to and from airport taxis will have cost the best part of £1, 000. What I learnt is that all the bitty massaging and lap dancing means little against the GFE experience I was lucky to find on evening one. London with its' hostile, mis-shapen throwback women is going to seem like the Island of Doctor Moreau after this Eden of leggy loveliness.
Thanks Barba. I haven't heard of Andros. Cialis gave me severe aches in the shoulder etc. God knows what that stuff really does to you. But I may try Andros. Thanks. I hate the Vaigra. As well as the flushed face. Bloodshot squinty glassy eyes . Red lips and big nose, there are all the after effects as mentioned. What a price to pay! There are rumours of a viagra spray for direct knob. Application, but it seems that is a way off. I tried some Indian rub on stuff from the internet a while back and it was useless. It's a brain thing anyway so can't see how direct application will work. Thanks again.
Having done the german fkk clubs a number of times I am thinking of new ideas for another trip. I have a question regarding Rio club. My parents are egyptian me being born in england. I have a middle eastern / mediterranean look in my 30's and well dressed etc.
I would like to know if Rio have a friendly door policy towards non white customers such as myself and specifically if anyone has seen male customers in Rio similar to my race or near to. The reason I ask is because certain clubs may be a bit funny as to who they let.
In and not, and I would hate to travel all the way to Kiev from england only to find out the bouncers at Rio would not take kindly to me and not let me in.
Thanks for all helpThis was answered before on the forum. I have been at Rio and seen there customers who were not white, but obviously of Middle Eastern or Mediterranean origin with darker skin. Some of those fellows are ISG members who I met at Rio. They can respond to you also to reassure you.
LJ
CityHunter77
09-14-11, 19:42
Look Mohab,
You will have fun in Kiev, no matter what. And you DO NOT rely on Rio. I have been following all this Rio stuff over the past weeks, and seriously, I do not understand any of that. Fucking a 11, then fucking a 12 out of 10, or a 15.
Go to any club, main street, restaurant, bar, shopping center, and grab a "solid" 7-9, wine her, dine her. And hope that her attitude is as GF as you want it to be. Chances are high for that if you know how to play game!
Act polite, don't booze, just drink a glass of classy wine, and have a good time in bed!Mohab.
Have to agree with WallyAlly, you shouldn't have problems in most of the clubs. If you are going to Rio maybe best to tip the manager 100 uah to get a table.
Getting entrance to Shooters can be troublesome due to facecontrol according to some previous reports, but not the best club to visit anyway.
Dante and D'lux are probably worth a visit
Every week I browse the beautiful ladies in the photo galleries of D'Lux and Dante's websites. Can a man with all the right tools pull from these two clubs? Do these girls go there looking for a man or are they just having
A girls night out? On my last trip to Russia, I quickly realized there are two kinds of nightclubs. One kind had girls with "love in there eyes" and the other kind had rich Russians "out on the town". The latter being impossible to break in to.
I will be there in one month and would like to know if it will be worth kicking up my wardrobe for these places.
Mohab, you asked a simple question about discrimination at Rio strip club:
Having done the german fkk clubs a number of times I am thinking of new ideas for another trip. I have a question regarding Rio club. My parents are egyptian me being born in england. I have a middle eastern / mediterranean look in my 30's and well dressed etc. I would like to know if Rio have a friendly door policy towards non white customers such as myself and specifically if anyone has seen male customers in Rio similar to my race or near to. The reason I ask is because certain clubs may be a bit funny as to who they let In and not, and I would hate to travel all the way to Kiev from england only to find out the bouncers at Rio would not take kindly to me and not let me in. Thanks for all helpYou have asked this question on this thread before. I answered you that there is no problem at Rio with discrimination against men with darker skin from Middle Eastern or Mediterranean countries:
This was answered before on the forum. I have been at Rio and seen there customers who were not white, but obviously of Middle Eastern or Mediterranean origin with darker skin. Some of those fellows are ISG members who I met at Rio. They can respond to you also to reassure you. LJYou then received the advice from Wallyally to simply forget about Rio and go to any nightclub, street, bar or restaurant, and to "grab a solid 7. 9, wine her, dine her______and have a good time in bed!"
Look Mohab, You will have fun in Kiev, no matter what. And you DO NOT rely on Rio. I have been following all this Rio stuff over the past weeks, and seriously, I do not understand any of that. Fucking a 11, then fucking a 12 out of 10, or a 15. Go to any club, main street, restaurant, bar, shopping center, and grab a "solid" 7-9, wine her, dine her. And hope that her attitude is as GF as you want it to be. Chances are high for that if you know how to play game! Act polite, don't booze, just drink a glass of classy wine, and have a good time in bed!Now I'm sure that you are not so gullible as to fail to realize that Wallyally's comment is an extreme oversimplification of the process and likelihood that you will succeed to pull a 7 to 9 level girl and that you will end up having "a good time in bed". It just isn't that quick and easy.
Even one of the vaunted experts on this board on getting high level beauties for freebies has recently posted a refreshingly realistic observation:
You're right, but not only for a one week tourist. Many times I leaved a club alone because I screwed something up. I was too passive, too drunk or I just had bad luck selecting the wrong girls to hit on. Scoring top-level freebies in FSU clubs is a game of win and lose, anyone who claims that having a 100% success rate is BSing.It is very obvious that your success rate at efforts to pull a hot girl for a freebie in your hometown should be expected to be indicative of what your success rate will be in Kiev too. It is true that in Kiev older guys have a shot with younger women than would normally be the case for them elsewhere, and also that having the appearance of a monied foreign businessman will work in your favor, but other differences in the Kiev environment to your hometown, like your ignorance of the language, culture and values of Kiev and Ukraine will work against you in this type of effort. Here is a comment that also expresses similar thoughts:
Prosal, I have come to appreciate how sharp your posts are on Eastern Europe. My last post simply made the point that it would be difficult for a one week tourist to pull an 8 or 9 from a club without p4p. A trip to Kiev will be more fulfilling if you plan on the exchange of money before you even arrive. Trolling nightclubs and falling into every Man trap will only serve to bust your balls. The social phenomena of young women dating older men is alive and well in Eastern Europe. But a combination of certain characteristics have to come into play. Language, social status, wealth, whatever. A foreigner that shows up to a Kiev nightclub with monger stamped on his forehead will be complete devushka repellent unless, of course, she's a prostitute.Another most important factor is TIME. To succeed at the freebie you will need to invest time and possibly several dates over several days time before you can "have a good time in bed." Do you have this amount of time? Do you want to proceed on a route that may risk you ending up at the end of your short vacation in Kiev with very little freebie sex, and you put all your eggs in that basket?
Here is a link to a recent post I made that outlines all the factors you should consider, if you have a relatively short span of time for your vacation in Kiev, and you are concerned about success in having a lot of sex with beautiful women:
Reviewing the Basics.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1195532#post1195532
Lastly, Mohab, I have reviewed your history of posts on this forum and see that you are an FKK man, with your longest and largest amount of mongering experience being in visiting various FKK'S over the past few years. As such, I must tell you that to get a large amount of good sex with beautiful girls at an FKK is like shooting fish in a barrel. It requires very little effort or skill. By contrast, mongering in Kiev requires all your skills and entails risk of failure. For you, most directly on point are the two comments reproduced below, in which I directly discussed the comparison of the FKK Oase vs. Kiev p4p options.
A Sex Insurance Policy
My advice to you is to do it all in Kiev. Try freebies, as Wallyally encouraged you to do. Also visit Rio to make up your own mind. There is a wealth of info posted on this by me and others. Read it. Also during the daytime, try the internet sites, like mamba. Ru, or top-modals. Com, or other escort sites I have discussed in my previous posts, or wander the streets or malls and shops and try your hand at pickups. It's all good. But also consider taking out a "Sex Insurance Policy" too, and design your trip to conclude with at least a one day pass through your favorite FKK, as I did on my last trip to Kiev, and for the same reasons. Visiting the FKK's you are used to reaching complete sexual exhaustion and doing a whole lotta fuckin'. You may or may not achieve the same in Kiev. So to arrive home completely satisfied, the travel hassle of this small detour is outweighed by the copious amounts of pure sexual gratification, as I described below:
COMPARISON OF KIEV TO FKK.
There you have it. My best sex in Kiev this trip was Irina, a girl not from Rio. From Rio I got nothing this trip except for $800 worth of dates on 2 nights with Lera which only included one session of a handjob / intercourse.
This of course was not Rio's fault, but mine in hesitating on Dasha, Bella and Anastacia, whom I could have had, and choosing instead to focus for 2 of my 3 nights on Lera, a girl who in the end did not put out like others at Rio I have taken home. Sometimes you choose well. Sometimes not.
Comparing this record, or even my better trips to Kiev where I did nail hotties from Rio each night, with the prodigious amounts of sex I had on both visits to FKK Oase, it is patently obvious that the best sex bang for your buck is at the FKK.
What about comparison of the quality of the girls?
I must say that at FKK Oase there were a good few girls that were on a very pretty level with very good bodies, who could be rated 8 to 9's also. I think Barbi (Hungarian brunette) at Oase is a 9, Roxana (Romanian brunette) is an 8, Joanna (Romanian black haired beauty) is a 9. And so on.
Therefore, since the FKK Oase has some legitimate 8's and 9's, it becomes a harder argument to make for focusing on Kiev trips.
Are there girls in Kiev that are more beautiful than the girls at the FKK's? I believe everyone would agree that Kiev has more girls that are more beautiful than the best girls at the FKK Oase.
But the real question to be asked about Kiev is what is the likelihood of having a frequent sexual encounter with one of those Kiev girls who are more beautiful than the best FKK girls? Because if you can't get to them and have them in your bed without too much hassle and with a reasonable enough price, then their existence in Kiev is irrelevant to you.
The argument has been that the existence of places like River Palace (in the past) and now Rio (in the present) and maybe Mandarin (in the future) make it easier to get a high level beauty. However, even though it is true that Rio has high level beauties, it seems of late that the top lookers are new girls who are dancers only. The girls who are available for take out at Rio did not currently include any 10's that I was able to meet. It is probably a matter of debate whether any of the girls available currently for take out could be classed as a 9. So what we are really dealing with as of Rio's current line up as it existed on the first weekend of September 2011, is take out girls in the 8 to 9 range.
Well at the FKK Oase there were also some girls in the 8 range, and they are available at 50 Euro / half hour, or 100 Euro / hour, with no 3 hour minimum like Rio.
So if you are looking for a large quantity of sex with girls who in the level of 8's, you should go to the FKK's and check it out. You won't be sorry.
However, you can get 8's in Kiev much cheaper than at FKK's because it is possible to get to such quality level girls through hit or miss trial and error using internet sites like mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com where the prices can range down to $100 / hr, to $75 / hr or even to $50 / hr. Most girls coming to your door will not be 8's, but some will. Also, you can try your hand at meeting girls in the streets, shops and bars and clubs who look like 8s or 9s to you. No guarantees but you might hit. If you are willing to pay high prices like $200 or $300 / hour you can try to get real high level p4p beauties in the clubs.
My conclusion is that Kiev has a higher potential for greater beauty than an FKK, but a far greater risk of failure to achieve that goal, combined with a risk of poor service. To most guys on this thread, it is worth the risk to play in Kiev because it is such fun anyway, it is cheap fun if you want to go for the lower level looking girls for $50 / hr, and you may be able to snag a real dream beauty for reasonable cash outlay (whether p4p or just dating costs) – if you are lucky. If you are not lucky, you might go home from a 3 day weekend in Kiev like I did, having had sex only three times with one mamba 7, one 8 that I knew previously, and one 8. 5 from Rio who didn't give a BJ.
Therefore a one day pass at the FKK can make your trip a sure thing, even if the odds worked against you in Kiev.
LJ
I concluded in my comparison post about Kiev p4p vs Oase, that at the FKK there is more uniformly good service with high level hotties on an 8 level that is possible for relatively low cost and with very high efficiency (little time waste seeking out girls). Whereas in Kiev it is possible to get the same or even higher level beauties at even cheaper rates than at an FKK, but it is more of a game depending on your skills and entailing more risk as to the outcome.
Because of the nature of the pursuit in Kiev, you are right, that sometimes it feels more personal when you nail a girl in Kiev that has responded to your charms. The allure of Kiev for those guys who prefer hunting high level beauties for freebies, rather than p4p is easy to understand. But even for those guys focused on p4p due to time contraints, Kiev represents an environment where there is more fun in the chase, while at the FKK it is often you who are the prey, and the girls who are the hunters, whether you realize it or not.
So if you want prodigious amounts of uniformly good sex with very hot looking girls on a level of 6 to 8 in beauty at a low unit cost, then the FKK cannot be beat. But if you want a chance at higher level beauties, for possibly lower costs, and enjoy the risk of the chase, and the possibilities of personal conquests with relationships that may endure over many trips with girls who are special to you, then you must come to Kiev, where this is very possible.
I desired a combination of both. Therefore, I designed my Sept 1 to 5 trip to include a weekend in Kiev in between day before and day after visits to FKK Oase. It is a good model, I feel. I would adjust it only to eliminate the visit to the FKK before Kiev, and in future trip go directly to Kiev first, and only on the way home, stop for one day at an FKK to wind things up properly until the limits of my desire are reached with complete sexual depletion, which will of course fill in any deficiencies in what was achieved in the Kiev trip, but not overshadow any cherished memories of its highlights.
LJ
Member #4274
09-15-11, 07:20
Look Mohab,
You will have fun in Kiev, no matter what. And you DO NOT rely on Rio. I have been following all this Rio stuff over the past weeks, and seriously, I do not understand any of that. Fucking a 11, then fucking a 12 out of 10, or a 15.
Go to any club, main street, restaurant, bar, shopping center, and grab a "solid" 7-9, wine her, dine her. And hope that her attitude is as GF as you want it to be. Chances are high for that if you know how to play game!
Act polite, don't booze, just drink a glass of classy wine, and have a good time in bed!Amen! I could not have said it better!
The dilemma in Kiev is quite simple. Why spend minimum 50 euro on a date with a freebie which does not guarantee sex when you can get a mamba girl for one hour sex for the same amount. What they say about time is translated to money. How much can you spend? Because each day in Kiev costs 100 euro just to stay there (accomodation and food). Add to this dating and clubbing expenses and you easily get to 300 euro per day. So spend time means spend 3000 euro etc to get freebies.
don't booze, just drink a glass of classy winebeing drunk (of course not to the point of slurring speech or stumbling) has worked for me often. slavic women have wild partying on their mind, usually drink like cossaks and are happy to meet similarly well-appointed, heavy drinking and generous men with the right "look" and "game" to provide the drinks and company to get the job done. finding a sober girl in an fsu bar or club, although probably possible, is difficult.
Now I'm sure that you are not so gullible as to fail to realize that Wallyally's comment is an extreme oversimplification of the process and likelihood that you will succeed to pull a 7 to 9 level girl and that you will end up having "a good time in bed". It just isn't that quick and easy.+1. There is absolutely no guarantee to score. Often the best you can do is just getting a couple of phone numbers. That said, one the key to success is instinct. You need to have the right instinct for choosing and approaching the ones you will build the best attraction with and whose you know (feel) that they will mesh well with you. You can't win them all, go with something that works. Many guys don't have this instinct though.
Another most important factor is TIME. To succeed at the freebie you will need to invest time and possibly several dates over several days time before you can "have a good time in bed."Still right. It is possible to score on the first night, but with many girls you will score on the second date (or even third date sometimes) , and there's no guarantee they can meet you on consecutive days or within 2-3 days. It depends entirely on her (and your) schedule. Personally, I'm not a "hurry" type of guy (in the sense that I like dating even it it doesn't lead to sex immediatly) , and I only start reaping what I sow after a minimum of one week or even 10 days on site.
BTW.
Will be in town this weekend. Anyone knows a good sportbar that would be open Sunday from around noon, to watch the rugby world cup match?
Can anyone recommend a good place in Kiev to buy generic Viagra or Cialis and how much it costs?
Thanks in advance
The dilemma in Kiev is quite simple. Why spend minimum 50 euro on a date with a freebie which does not guarantee sex when you can get a mamba girl for one hour sex for the same amount. What they say about time is translated to money. How much can you spend? Because each day in Kiev costs 100 euro just to stay there (accomodation and food). Add to this dating and clubbing expenses and you easily get to 300 euro per day. So spend time means spend 3000 euro etc to get freebies.I concur with you wholeheartedly. 99. 9% of the time you spend more money on the non pros and there is no guarantee of sex. The only time that anyone would go this rout is when he is looking for long term relationship and love and. Blah blah blah. Not for a budget oriented monver for sure.
EZ
I concur with you wholeheartedly. 99. 9% of the time you spend more money on the non pros and there is no guarantee of sex. The only time that anyone would go this rout is when he is looking for long term relationship and love and. Blah blah blahOf course "freebie" means free but it also means "normal" dating expenses (which is elementary male courtesy). But it's IMO worth the cost and the time. Sex with pros can"t be compared to sex with non-pros. Fucking a girl who likes you as a person and respects you is totally different as fucking a girl who sees some financial benefice at doing so. Also not many girls in FSU are looking for love and long-term relationships. In fact, I guess it's a minority. Casual sex is common. Most girls don't expect a relationship to last forever, but just to enjoy the ride. And live life at its fullest. This is the Russian mentality.
I talked with a few girls on Mamba and massage places and they all say they can't visit me a President Hotel.
Anyone knows why? Doorman wants his share or what's wrong?
The dilemma in Kiev is quite simple. Why spend minimum 50 euro on a date with a freebie which does not guarantee sex when you can get a mamba girl for one hour sex for the same amount. What they say about time is translated to money. How much can you spend? Because each day in Kiev costs 100 euro just to stay there (accomodation and food). Add to this dating and clubbing expenses and you easily get to 300 euro per day. So spend time means spend 3000 euro etc to get freebies.This is a keen observation of which all should take note. The term "freebies" is actually a misnomer, since there is nothing "free" about having sex with women, whether it be in the context of dating, marrying or divorcing them. Whether the sex costs more in the traditional context of dating and marriage, or in the context of p4p for a similar amount of sex, can be debated. But it will cost you plenty either way.
The allure of going after "freebies" has a bit to do with the machismo and personal sense of virility inside a man that wants to feel that the woman has been seduced solely by his good looks and great personality to give herself sexually to him. This is the part that gratifies his ego and makes his conquest so sweet to him, the validation and approval. It's not possible to have this feeling when he directly pays her for the sex in a p4p transaction. Ego is a powerful motivator.
What's the difference, one might ask, if he pays for her dinner and drinks and gifts to get her to the point of having sex, or he pays her cash directly for the sex and she can buy those for herself later? Economically, it makes no difference. But psychologically, it makes every difference.
In normal dating and romance it's all about disguising the expenditures he makes on her behalf as pure gifts with no condition of sex in return, even though this is all an elaborate charade of self delusion, since every man wants the sex with the woman who is the object of his attentions from the very beginning. If there were no sex at the end of the tunnel, he would not be motivated to engage in all this spending on her behalf in the first place. Yet, the charade comfortably suffices to anesthetize his machismo into believing that "he doesn't pay for it".
The guys who prefer going after freebies do it because it makes them feel good doing it this way. I have many friends who wouldn't "pay for it" directly because they feel that paying for it shows they are lacking in some aspect of manliness, and they regard it as unseemly. Obviously, that is not the monger mentality which regards sex as a commodity which we want to obtain in the best and least expensive way possible, with no qualms or psychological cultural baggage that would stand in our way of getting it by paying for it. We have long since made peace with the idea of p4p, regarding the idea that "a real man doesn't pay for it," as a hypocrisy which is exposed by the fact that all men pay for it in one way or another.
I enjoy sex both ways, paying for dates with "freebies" that MIGHT end in sex, and paying for dates with p4p girls that WILL end in sex. It's not all about sex always. There are relationship aspects between human beings that do transcend sex, even for the monger. We are not baboons. So freebies can have other aspects of satisfaction aside from sex. There is surely a difference in which way will provide a more satisfying pat on the back to my ego. Obviously, paying for the dates with the "freebies" will do that better than p4p, albeit there is a risk that I might not end up with sex on that particular date, and might have to wait to another date before sex happens. However, when I go on a short mongering trip to a sexual paradise like Kiev, I am not going there only to satisfy my ego, but rather to satisfy my libido and sexual desires. To make my pecker happy, the way that guarantees more sex and better sex, is the better way. And that is obviously the p4p way.
So the unpredictability of when and if sex might happen going the freebie way, is what dictates that a good portion of my time and effort in Kiev is devoted to p4p, although it is always good to keep one's eye open for freebie opportunities, and to spend time on pursuing freebie possibilities in nightclubs too.
The factor that most facilitates this is that even when pursuing girls with p4p in my mind, whether it be on the street, or in a nightclub, I think that the safest way to pursue it is initially as if it were a freebie (because I don't want to get slapped in the face for propositioning a girl who is not a prostitute in a nightclub). It is best and safest to let the girl bring up the money aspect (and do not worry, if she's a pro, she will bring up the money and won't waste time about doing it either). It's just that if she does bring up money, I am ready for it, and would not pass her by, like those guys fixated on only freebies and no p4p.
LJ
DoctorOral
09-16-11, 00:09
It is on my mind to say: no, I would not say I score with 100, but yes, if I would go down and punch in numbers, I would punch in 80, and on first dates.
The game is so easy here in Kiev (now I am not over 45. That might help)!
+1. There is absolutely no guarantee to score. Often the best you can do is just getting a couple of phone numbers. That said, one the key to success is instinct. You need to have the right instinct for choosing and approaching the ones you will build the best attraction with and whose you know (feel) that they will mesh well with you. You can't win them all, go with something that works. Many guys don't have this instinct though.
Still right. It is possible to score on the first night, but with many girls you will score on the second date (or even third date sometimes) , and there's no guarantee they can meet you on consecutive days or within 2-3 days. It depends entirely on her (and your) schedule. Personally, I'm not a "hurry" type of guy (in the sense that I like dating even it it doesn't lead to sex immediatly) , and I only start reaping what I sow after a minimum of one week or even 10 days on site.
BTW.
Will be in town this weekend. Anyone knows a good sportbar that would be open Sunday from around noon, to watch the rugby world cup match?O'Brien's on Mikhailivska up from Maidan. Not keen on visiting Irish bars abroad, but O'B serves its purpose, loads of TVs, decent beer and food, and also good Ukr music Fri and Sat evenings.
The guys who prefer going after freebies do it because it makes them feel good doing it this way. I have many friends who wouldn't "pay for it" directly because they feel that paying for it shows they are lacking in some aspect of manliness, and they regard it as unseemly. Obviously, that is not the monger mentality which regards sex as a commodity which we want to obtain in the best and least expensive way possible, with no qualms or psychological cultural baggage that would stand in our way of getting it by paying for it. We have long since made peace with the idea of p4p, regarding the idea that "a real man doesn't pay for it," as a hypocrisy which is exposed by the fact that all men pay for it in one way or another.
The factor that most facilitates this is that even when pursuing girls with p4p in my mind, whether it be on the street, or in a nightclub, I think that the safest way to pursue it is initially as if it were a freebie (because I don't want to get slapped in the face for propositioning a girl who is not a prostitute in a nightclub). It is best and safest to let the girl bring up the money aspect (and do not worry, if she's a pro, she will bring up the money and won't waste time about doing it either). It's just that if she does bring up money, I am ready for it, and would not pass her by, like those guys fixated on only freebies and no p4p.
LJWhile I agree with most of that LJ, I would say everyone is different. I'm not the best looking guy, you can testify to that haha! But I scrub up ok. And I can pull freebies in Kyiv better than in the west. I do best with first contact on internet sites though I've never used a pay-for site. Therefore I must have decent game as it is described. Massive part of that as Prosal or Irish Lad would I am sure concur, understanding Slavic culture, learning a few words of Rus and maybe Ukr too. Every freebie I've pulled has been impressed by me arguing taxi driver down on price. It isn't about the cash it is about fitting in.
And I have two freebies who totally resent me paying for everything. Sheer economics means I try to pay for most things on our date, but more than once I've been to the toilet and returned to find a bill paid, and I always get presents bought for me by my Ukr harem on ny arrival. Yes I am serious.
So it is not all about machismo, nor is it fair to make blanket assumptions that freebies are always as expensive as p4p. I am living proof of that.
But yes, in general, you do need time to. Invest, understanding of the culture and a good game. I love p4p and Rio is often my fallback option much as RP used to be if I did not get the Free date into the sack that night. But most of all I love the total GFE sex of a freebie. I usually get western equivalent of GFE from pros out here, but anyone who has had a genuine relationship will probably agree when I say the total unbridled Passion exceeds even that when it us a genuine GF.
Also not many girls in FSU are looking for love and long-term relationships. In fact, I guess it's a minority. Casual sex is common. Most girls don't expect a relationship to last forever, but just to enjoy the ride. And live life at its fullest. This is the Russian mentality.I agree with this part:
"Casual sex is common. Most girls don't expect a relationship to last forever, but just to enjoy the ride. And live life at its fullest."
But I'm just wondering how true this part is:
"Also not many girls in FSU are looking for love and long-term relationships. In fact, I guess it's a minority."
If you're only talking about girls at bars or clubs, it may be true, but even on Mamba it seems there are more girls looking for love than casual sex. And we all hear about how Russian girls would make better wives than Western girls.
Even in my few casual, freebie experiences, discussing with them reveal that they want to start family sooner or later, if not with me.
So I would put it this way: "Many girls in FSU are looking for love and long-term relationships. But most girls don't expect a relationship to last forever, so just to enjoy the ride. And live life at its fullest." As a result, "casual sex becomes common," but even during those casual encounters, they are looking for love and long-term relationships, if possible.
I agree with this part:
"Casual sex is common. Most girls don't expect a relationship to last forever, but just to enjoy the ride. And live life at its fullest."
But I'm just wondering how true this part is:
"Also not many girls in FSU are looking for love and long-term relationships. In fact, I guess it's a minority."
If you're only talking about girls at bars or clubs, it may be true, but even on Mamba it seems there are more girls looking for love than casual sex. And we all hear about how Russian girls would make better wives than Western girls.
Even in my few casual, freebie experiences, discussing with them reveal that they want to start family sooner or later, if not with me.
So I would put it this way: "Many girls in FSU are looking for love and long-term relationships. But most girls don't expect a relationship to last forever, so just to enjoy the ride. And live life at its fullest." As a result,"casual sex becomes common," but even during those casual encounters, they are looking for love and long-term relationships, if possible.It would be depressing if FSU girls were not seeking a common romance.
While I agree with most of that LJ, I would say everyone is different. I'm not the best looking guy, you can testify to that haha! But I scrub up ok. And I can pull freebies in Kyiv better than in the west. I do best with first contact on internet sites though I've never used a pay-for site. Therefore I must have decent game as it is described. Massive part of that as Prosal or Irish Lad would I am sure concur, understanding Slavic culture, learning a few words of Rus and maybe Ukr too. Every freebie I've pulled has been impressed by me arguing taxi driver down on price. It isn't about the cash it is about fitting in.
And I have two freebies who totally resent me paying for everything. Sheer economics means I try to pay for most things on our date, but more than once I've been to the toilet and returned to find a bill paid, and I always get presents bought for me by my Ukr harem on ny arrival. Yes I am serious.
So it is not all about machismo, nor is it fair to make blanket assumptions that freebies are always as expensive as p4p. I am living proof of that.
But yes, in general, you do need time to. Invest, understanding of the culture and a good game. I love p4p and Rio is often my fallback option much as RP used to be if I did not get the Free date into the sack that night. But most of all I love the total GFE sex of a freebie. I usually get western equivalent of GFE from pros out here, but anyone who has had a genuine relationship will probably agree when I say the total unbridled Passion exceeds even that when it us a genuine GF.___You are clearly a very nice looking guy, and if you need me to testify, just let me know the time and the place__LOL. Other than that I agree with what you wrote, at least the parts I understood__LOL.
What are the non-pay internet sites that you are doing well on, and can recommend?
As an aside, Immy007 introduced me to travelgirls. Com, and I just signed up for a 1 month trial for 60 Euro, which is exhorbitant, but he said it was very productive from personal experience, so I decided to try it in advance of my upcoming trip to Kiev for week of October 10. 16. So far after two days of sending sweet messages to a large number of girls mostly in age range of 18. 25, although a few were in the 28 to 33 age range, I have four women who have responded they would like to meet. None have been explicit yet about expecting and p4p, so it may end up just being normal dates and we'll see where it goes. But Immy007 says there are many escorts on the site too, it's just I don't know how to tell which are regular girls and which are escorts on that site, so I'm being careful in what I say, and see how it goes.
As best I can understand the points you were making, the part of the freebie experience that you most enjoy is the greater GFE response from the girl who is with you as a freebie compared to the response of girls who have been with you as p4p. I agree with this, of course. It is additional aspect of the freebie experience. Whereas I was pointing toward the satisfaction in the conquest itself, per se, in knowing that the girl sincerely wanted to be with you, since there is no p4p to cloud the issue of her sincerity, you are pointing to the passion that ensues, which also serves to provide great satisfaction, and stroke the ego at the same time.
And I also agree that the freebie can sometimes be cheaper than a p4p experience. It depends entirely on the variables involved in each. But the total cost amount paid out in each freebie or p4p wasn't central to the point I was trying to make, which was simply that with freebies there is a cost. It is not truly free, as implied by the term "freebie". Nor is it the case that cost for freebies is always much less than p4p. It depends on what type of date with the freebie versus what type of costs of the particular p4p girl, each with many variables.
I couldn't recommend one way over the other (freebie vs, p4p) based purely on a cost analysis, which as you know is one of my ways of evaluating the different p4p options one against the other. I think every man appreciates the greater "sincerity" factor, as well as the greater "passion" factor present in freebies versus a p4p experience. The real reason to depart from pursuing freebies and turn to p4p during a visit to Kiev, is if a guy doesn't really have sufficient time to reap the rewards he might begin to sow in meeting freebie girls because he is only in Kiev for a short time (per Prosal and others, less than a week). And because via p4p one can have non-stop sexual encounters with multiple variety of girls (which is the colorful experience many want) during a Kiev visit, more easily than if trying to get those results from freebies where you confront the girlfriend cock-block. Remember, that in p4p the money is paid for the girl to go home after the sex and not bother you further or interfere with your activities with other girls, or put any further demands on your time once the sex is finished. This too is why you yourself are constrained to get in as much p4p sex as you can in Kiev before the "girlfriend" arrives.
The irony is that even in p4p, as it plays out in a place like Rio strip club, there is such a thing as a "p4p girlfriend" who is just as effective at cock-blocking your efforts to penetrate further into the line up at Rio__LOL. Some of the Rio girls tend to get possessive, and if you want to see them again in the future, but don't want to face their resentment or other fallout from you dancing with or taking out another girl, then you will have to be careful what you do around them. I have found myself having to ask the managers, Dima or Pasha, which bar a particular girl is working in that night so I can avoid the hassle she will bring to my efforts to meet a new girl, by going then to sit in the other bar where the p4p girlfriend isn't.
LJ
Even in my few casual, freebie experiences, discussing with them reveal that they want to start family sooner or later, if not with me.Without being judgemental, it depends with who you discuss. Higher-class girls (those who have good jobs, already have access to the best their society has to offer, who already had rich boyfriends, who already travelled extensively, ect) often put out some of the best uncomplicated sex. They usually have no materialistic expectations or financial problems to solve, social needs are satisfied, and they only feel they need hot adventures and romances (with men of same cultural and lifestyle level) otherwise they are missing out on life. By no means they think about you as a father for their future children. It doesn't mean they are not emotional, as we all know that Russian are very emotional and very passionate people, much more so than Western women, but it means that they will be happy just with a hot, fun and passionate adventure. Contrarily, more lower class girls could date sex-hungry foreigners because they see no future in her own country and could see benefit in doing so.
It would be depressing if FSU girls were not seeking a common romance.Of course, Slavic women are eager for emotions and passion. For them it predominates over logic or reason (unlike Asians). I maybe expressed myself wrongly. What I meaned is that "when they fuck a foreigner", few are looking for a husband and father for their future child. They are happy with casual sex, fun adventure and common romance as you put it. Most girls know exactly what they are getting into when dating and / or fucking foreign businessmen and tourists. Still, you have to package your desires in a romantic and acceptable way.
O'Brien's on Mikhailivska up from Maidan. Not keen on visiting Irish bars abroad, but O'B serves its purpose, loads of TVs, decent beer and food, and also good Ukr music Fri and Sat evenings.Spasibo. Irish bars are also the very last places where I want to go abroad, but would hate to miss the France match Sunday.
Off to Borispol in a few hours.
It is on my mind to say: no, I would not say I score with 100, but yes, if I would go down and punch in numbers, I would punch in 80, and on first dates.A date is a significant signal. A girl who agrees to meet a stranger on a date signifies her interest (of course, if she's not a money-hungry serial dater). I also fuck 9 out of 10 women that I date. That said, I load the dices (smilie) , and always create a good atmosphere by making the girl drunk (I am myself a thirsty monger).
KievForeigner
09-17-11, 03:33
Shocking MAMBA experience tonight. OMG!
I hope I can laugh from it after some hours sleep!
Let me say I did not have sex with those girls coming by my apartment tonight. Rating them as 1 would be an offence to the 7s-10s!
Hi Guys,
I will be in Kiev for 10 days soon, in my previous trips I would go to River Palace, I read enough reports here to know its now closed.
Is RIO really the hottest club to meet dancers and escorts? How far is it from independence square? I know you can take a girl home for 300 for 3 hours.
I think I will really miss River Palace in this trip, I wish there more clubs like RR.
Do you think vodka escorts is a reliable service now? I used this agency about 6 years ago and my experience was very bad, the girl that came to me was one of the girls on the site but there was a big surgery scar on her belly that really turned me off and I could not even have sex with her, I never used that agency again, the photos on that site were photo shopped really good
Hercules78
09-17-11, 14:45
Time to give back to this forum which has given me so much info.
I was in Kiev from Sept. 3rd through 8th. This was my first visit and I had a great time. Reading through the forums I had done my homework. Lined up freebies and one night stands primarily through Mamba, understood the whereabouts of Rio, Buddha Bar, D'Lux etc for the night adventures. I stayed at an apartment via kievapts. Com which was right near Hyatt and an excellent walking distance to all places including Buddha bar, Rio, Club D'Lux, Kreschatik, Maidan and even Shooters. Everything was within 10-15 minutes walk and so I got a lot of exercise walking, though at night I would take a cab back to my apartment and ended up paying 100 grvn each time! I got an MTC cellphone (pronounced as MTS in Russian) for 239 grvn and uploaded 35grvn for minutes which lasted me the entire 5 day trip).
I was amazed to see the brazen sex trade in night clubs such as Buddha bar and Club D'Lux. It was evident, there were so many working girls. I struck up conversations with a lot of them, discussed prices, services etc. But did not end up taking any as they were usually $300 or $500 but for multiple hours and frankly I was a bit tired on Saturday as I had just reached Kiev on a long flight. In the following days, I enjoyed mamba girls who were pretty good and usually gave me 1-2 hours for 700 grvn. I have a few pictures that I have posted in the photo forum for you to enjoy. Rio was nice too and I think it had a high number of 8-10s, with many 9s. Unfortunately most girls I met could either not speak in English and some who did, I was not very interested in. Not much chemistry so did not try those. Tried to hook up with little Joey but unfortunately he made a mistake with his phone number so I was on my own. Tasting and enjoying this beautiful city. My strategy was to be a normal tourist during the day in Kiev and have some sex at nights, so I ended up doing the touristy stuff too, like the red open top bus tour of the city, visit to the caves, Andrews descent, Pudol, the parliament bldg, kreschatik etc. I had lined up an excellent freebie who worked as a masseuse in one of the five star hotels in the city, who kept me company on four of the nights. I cannot post her picture but she was definitely a 9. Very petite, fair, blonde hair, blue eyes, with a great figure. She would take me out to restaurants and sightseeing, before we went back to my apartment, where I was able to get laid on the 3rd night. One night she and I went to the river side and walked hand in hand and ended up kissing each other for hours on the river shore. So romantic. I have kept her number and she's willing to meet me on a vacation somewhere. Something I may plan in the future.
Ok, now for the sex. First one was Angelina. Very sweet girl. Amazing blowjob. Started with a CBJ but when I complained, she was ok to make it BBBJ. She is an expert at DT. She could take me whole till the very her lips were at the base of my cock and her tongue could lick my balls. Incredible. I fucked her in every position and pulled her hair. She liked to be submissive during sex. She is very tall maybe 5'10' and I enjoyed that as I'm 6'1' myself and I like tall girls. Amazing body, excellent service. She stayed almost 2 hrs though our appointment was for 1 hr and I paid her only the 1 hr fee I. E. 700 grvn + taxi (which was an extra 100grvn). Her picture is in the photos section for those that might want to check out.
The next one was a super cutie, Victoria. Long dark silky hair, the most amazing smile, hot tanned body, super nice breasts, all of 19 years old. Lovely licking during BBBJ. Very open to all suggestions. It was a total GFE experience. Met her through mamba and she says she only does this rarely if she needs some extra money. She goes to school. I repeated with her the next day. I have posted her pictures too. She was shy and did not want to show her face, unlike Angelina, who loved modeling in front of my camera.
I have to recommend going to D'Lux on a Friday or Saturday night. I went there on sat. Night. Mind blowing is all I can say. The most beautiful girls. Mostly 10 and 9s. Many of them working girls. Tall blondes, young 19, 20 year olds. Amazing! I was a bit tired with drinking and had reached that same day from a long flight so I knew sex would not be so enjoyable but boy-o-boy that place is rocking with beauties. Had I stayed another weekend, I would have definitely picked a girl or two from there. Buddha Bar has a lot of working girls, but the D'Lux ones are way hotter.
On the whole I enjoyed my trip. I knew the next few days were going to be in FKKs in Frankfurt so I took it slow and enjoyed the city also.
KievForeigner
09-17-11, 18:37
Angelina looks very good for 100USD. May I ask what her username is on Mamba or her number?
Time to give back to this forum which has given me so much info.
I was in Kiev from Sept. 3rd through 8th. This was my first visit and I had a great time. Reading through the forums I had done my homework. Lined up freebies and one night stands primarily through Mamba, understood the whereabouts of Rio, Buddha Bar, D'Lux etc for the night adventures. I stayed at an apartment via kievapts. Com which was right near Hyatt and an excellent walking distance to all places including Buddha bar, Rio, Club D'Lux, Kreschatik, Maidan and even Shooters. Everything was within 10-15 minutes walk and so I got a lot of exercise walking, though at night I would take a cab back to my apartment and ended up paying 100 grvn each time! I got an MTC cellphone (pronounced as MTS in Russian) for 239 grvn and uploaded 35grvn for minutes which lasted me the entire 5 day trip).
I was amazed to see the brazen sex trade in night clubs such as Buddha bar and Club D'Lux. It was evident, there were so many working girls. I struck up conversations with a lot of them, discussed prices, services etc. But did not end up taking any as they were usually $300 or $500 but for multiple hours and frankly I was a bit tired on Saturday as I had just reached Kiev on a long flight. In the following days, I enjoyed mamba girls who were pretty good and usually gave me 1-2 hours for 700 grvn. I have a few pictures that I have posted in the photo forum for you to enjoy. Rio was nice too and I think it had a high number of 8-10s, with many 9s. Unfortunately most girls I met could either not speak in English and some who did, I was not very interested in. Not much chemistry so did not try those. Tried to hook up with little Joey but unfortunately he made a mistake with his phone number so I was on my own. Tasting and enjoying this beautiful city. My strategy was to be a normal tourist during the day in Kiev and have some sex at nights, so I ended up doing the touristy stuff too, like the red open top bus tour of the city, visit to the caves, Andrews descent, Pudol, the parliament bldg, kreschatik etc. I had lined up an excellent freebie who worked as a masseuse in one of the five star hotels in the city, who kept me company on four of the nights. I cannot post her picture but she was definitely a 9. Very petite, fair, blonde hair, blue eyes, with a great figure. She would take me out to restaurants and sightseeing, before we went back to my apartment, where I was able to get laid on the 3rd night. One night she and I went to the river side and walked hand in hand and ended up kissing each other for hours on the river shore. So romantic. I have kept her number and she's willing to meet me on a vacation somewhere. Something I may plan in the future.
Ok, now for the sex. First one was Angelina. Very sweet girl. Amazing blowjob. Started with a CBJ but when I complained, she was ok to make it BBBJ. She is an expert at DT. She could take me whole till the very her lips were at the base of my cock and her tongue could lick my balls. Incredible. I fucked her in every position and pulled her hair. She liked to be submissive during sex. She is very tall maybe 5'10' and I enjoyed that as I'm 6'1' myself and I like tall girls. Amazing body, excellent service. She stayed almost 2 hrs though our appointment was for 1 hr and I paid her only the 1 hr fee I. E. 700 grvn + taxi (which was an extra 100grvn). Her picture is in the photos section for those that might want to check out.
The next one was a super cutie, Victoria. Long dark silky hair, the most amazing smile, hot tanned body, super nice breasts, all of 19 years old. Lovely licking during BBBJ. Very open to all suggestions. It was a total GFE experience. Met her through mamba and she says she only does this rarely if she needs some extra money. She goes to school. I repeated with her the next day. I have posted her pictures too. She was shy and did not want to show her face, unlike Angelina, who loved modeling in front of my camera.
I have to recommend going to D'Lux on a Friday or Saturday night. I went there on sat. Night. Mind blowing is all I can say. The most beautiful girls. Mostly 10 and 9s. Many of them working girls. Tall blondes, young 19, 20 year olds. Amazing! I was a bit tired with drinking and had reached that same day from a long flight so I knew sex would not be so enjoyable but boy-o-boy that place is rocking with beauties. Had I stayed another weekend, I would have definitely picked a girl or two from there. Buddha Bar has a lot of working girls, but the D'Lux ones are way hotter.
On the whole I enjoyed my trip. I knew the next few days were going to be in FKKs in Frankfurt so I took it slow and enjoyed the city also.Sounds like you did pretty well in Kiev with a freebie nailed on the third date, and two mamba girls who gave you good sex. Sounds like you also planned a visit to the FKK's after Kiev, something which I have recommended on this thread, and which I am convinced is a good move and a great way to come home with no sense of having missed out on anything.
Sorry about my error in transposing one of the digits in my Kievstar number when I sent it to you, which screwed up you meeting with me Saturday night at Rio when I met TheKnight and Immy007 there. But it was nice to finally say Hello, to you at Rio Sunday night. Those fellows were there too later that night. If you read my post about that evening, you will remember that I was infatuated with this one girl who I had been trying to nail since my date with her Saturday night, so I left Rio earlier than usual with her again Sunday night.
Yet my actual presence with you would probably not have helped you more than simply reading my prior reports (into which I really make an effort to pack in all the info and observations that I can for the guidance of others coming after me). But here are a few pointers that I don't think I mentioned that might be helpful.
You actually had a pretty good seat in the upstairs inner room at Rio Sunday night. I prefer being seated on the side though, which I feel gives me a better view of all three dancers at same time. Also, I have taken to not waiting until I can get the manager to come over to me so I can ask him to find out the usual info about a particular girl that I need (her name, does she speak English, does she go out) before I decide if I want to ask her to come sit with me for a chat. It takes a long time because the managers tend to be busy or walking around elsewhere and not focused on coming over to me every moment I like the look of a girl. So I don't sit all the way into the seat behind the table, but rather at the edge seat, so that I can get up easily. This way if there is a girl who strikes my fancy, and the manager is not nearby, I simply get up myself and approach her as she dances to ask her what her name is and if she speaks English. I make a note of her name and description in my phone, and of others girls I take notice of in the same way, and then even if she is offstage when I finally speak with the manager to find out if she's dancer only or goes out, I can refer to her by name, and the manager can simply send for her by name, if I want her at my table for a bit.
One caveat to approaching a girl as she dances. It is possible to do so without tipping, but it probably is a little tacky, so I wouldn't keep popping up to speak to dancers incessantly without tipping out of concern that it might be regarded as too impetuous and pushy by either the girls or management. I don't see any others doing it really. So what I do instead is I often, but not every time, approach the girl with a 50 UAH bill (about $6. 25 USD) in my hand (that's the minimum girl tip according to manager, Pasha) and while speaking with her make a show of tucking the bill into her string bikini just as is done in any strip club world wide, a practice of which I'm quite sure both the girls and management approve. In this way, I can begin my interview of the girl and start establishing a repoire right while she's up there dancing on the stage pole, and of course she is flashing me smiles as she dances, and I'm sitting back at my seat watching her "perform" for me, while I am thinking about her dancing on my pole.
Another nut to crack at Rio was the impasse of losing out on some of the cutest girls there who just never paid enough attention in school and don't know how to speak even a basic English. The girl I was chasing both Saturday night and Sunday night did not speak a word of English. I have been using Google Translate which I can access with my phone having purchased a data plan for internet access. It is worth it, because it allows you to break through the language barrier just enough, with the cutest girls. So I am no longer deterred if a girl doesn't speak English. All we need for romance, is some of my silly humor to make her laugh, some happy smiles, a good vibe and a little patience ____ but I still have to remember to bring the fucking phone when I come to Rio. I had forgotten to bring it Saturday night, but thanks to TheKnight's abilities in Russian speaking (he was with me at my table at the time) I was able to make a deal with the girl I was after.
LJ
Everything was within 10-15 minutes walk and so I got a lot of exercise walking, though at night I would take a cab back to my apartment and ended up paying 100 grvn each time!I have traveled to Kiev 4-5 times, I went to River Palace every visit, when I wanted to go there I would get a cab near Kreschatic, I would tell him River Palace 25 or 30 grivna and I would show him the money, no problem. But returning to my flat from River Palace was another story, almost everytime they charged me 100 grivna, its not about the money it just didn't feel good about getting ripped off but you have no choice
One caveat to approaching a girl as she dances. It is possible to do so without tipping, but it probably is a little tacky, so I wouldn't keep popping up to speak to dancers incessantly without tipping out of concern that it might be regarded as too impetuous and pushy by either the girls or management. I don't see any others doing it really. LJWhen I went to Rio in July, I met up with another member of this site who was a veteran of Rio and was instructed by him to just approach the dancers while they were dancing. My take was, well, if he says so. So that's what I did, and it worked. I believe there is nothing wrong with it. I think it's actually a nice gesture just to approach a girl with a smile and ask her name or ask her to come to talk to you after her dancing. In any case I learned all the nuts and bolts of Rio from this man, to whom I'm very grateful. I was also mesmerized by how smooth this man was with girls at Rio. Smilie.
When I went to Rio in July, I met up with another member of this site who was a veteran of Rio and was instructed by him to just approach the dancers while they were dancing. My take was, well, if he says so. So that's what I did, and it worked. I believe there is nothing wrong with it. I think it's actually a nice gesture just to approach a girl with a smile and ask her name or ask her to come to talk to you after her dancing. In any case I learned all the nuts and bolts of Rio from this man, to whom I'm very grateful. I was also mesmerized by how smooth this man was with girls at Rio. Smilie.You're probably right, Sorbonne, that there is nothing wrong with getting up and approaching a dancer on stage to talk to her empty-handed and without any tip. I actually do just that many times. But I feel compelled to tip sometimes because I feel there is an expectation on the part of dancers for this if they give you their attentions. Maybe it's all in my head that the girls want and expect something from a guy who wants them to pay attention to him or talk to him. I'm just analogizing from what I think a girl dancing in NY would be thinking of a guy who came up to the stage and wanted to talk to her and didn't put a dollar into her G-string. I just believe that at some point the girls would not appreciate that guy. But perhaps if it is only an occasional thing the way you were doing it, it is less likely to lead to a negative perception of you. However, I get up to get the name of every girl I fancy because I am making a list for future reference. That's what I meant by getting up "incessantly". So just to stay on good terms with them all, I am a "sport" for a $6 tip, and everyone's happy. It's just my way of keeping good relations so I can do my thing there unimpeded. Maybe ifone is not getting up to speak with so many of the dancers, it wouldn't be an issue.
LJ
I talked with a few girls on Mamba and massage places and they all say they can't visit me a President Hotel.
Anyone knows why? Doorman wants his share or what's wrong?President charges 200 for outside entry, as they have their own girls here from about 2000-0400.
What you want to do is being them in before it dark out.
DoctorOral
09-18-11, 13:11
Walked krechatik up and down two times (so passed all the spots 4 times.)
The third time, a group of 3 girls giggled looking at me, the fourth time I brought them a round of beer (since they were having bottled beer) and asked them to join me at my place.
Two solid 7 make a 14, their friend was chubby, so a 4, makes it a solid 18. And 100$
Does anyone have experience with sauna's in Kiev.
I have found a link: http://bantu.kiev.ua/
But it is all in Russian or Ukrain.
Is this sauna only interesting if you are in a group and rent the hole place or can you visit it alone?
What kind of services are they delivering? At what prices?
It seems like they have several saunas at different places in the city.
Does anyone have experience with sauna's in Kiev.
I have found a link:
http://bantu.kiev.ua/
But it is all in Russian or Ukrain.
Is this sauna only interesting if you are in a group and rent the hole place or can you visit it alone?
What kind of services are they delivering? At what prices?
It seems like they have several saunas at different places in the city.,
Plantrav, sounds like you are challenged by internet language barrier issues in your research. There may be others out there with the same issues. Not everyone is computer savvy. So I will give the method that makes language no longer an issue. Perhaps it will help thos e who need it. I beg the patience of those who know this stuff already.
Plantrav, simply download and install the Google Toolbar into your Internet Explorer browser and download / install Google Translate as well. When properly set up, this will result in automatic instant translation of any webpage in any language to English or your native tongue. (Note: if you haven't already, get latest version of IE installed first. It's free. Make sure your Windows is updated with latest service packs. I believe you need at least service pack 3 installed into Windows in order for the latest version of Internet Explorer 8 to work properly).
Using the above, I opened the link to the sauna webpage that you listed, and all was translated for me automatically into English. Even the webpage's internal links along the left hand side were translated in a pop-up that appeared as I passed the mouse pointer over each option. I found particularly interesting the description of the body slide massages available. But I didn't spot pictures of the girls who do it.
Using this language translation application provided by Google, one can translate, understand and communicate every message on Mamba. Ru as well, an important goal of mongers visiting Kiev. If something in a girl's mamba profile did not translate automatically, one can also right-click on the text and a "translate" option usually appears in a drop-down list. In this way can see easily what each devushka is writing in her precious profile. (Note: Most of these girls write stuff that makes them sound like lunatics, although maybe their poetic intent is all lost in the translation. I don't know. But who cares about what's in their head, as long as they look hot and are good at sex.) To send a message in Russian, I usually open an additional browser tab and click on the word "Google" on the Google Toolbar which brings me straight to Google main page. Then at the top. Left of the page you will see links, one of which will say "More". Clicking on "More" will cause a drop-down list to appear, one of whose options is "Translate". Clicking on that link will open the Translator, within which you can select the language of translation and switch back and forth between direction of translation using the directional arrows there. You can thus type your message in English, and watch it get automatically translated into Russian, then you can copy / paste the Russian language message back into the translator and switch the direction to double check what the Russian message you created actually means, just in case you need to correct it because there are errors in syntax and usage so that the message does not properly convey your intent. Then when you are satisfied the message captures what you want to say to the girl of your dreams on Mamba. Ru or any website, you simply copy / paste your Russian language message into the message box for that girl on Mamba and "send" it.
I hope this is helpful to you, and any others who may not be so computer savvy. I didn't know this stuff in the beginning, and only really learned about it because of my mongering investigations on the internet.
LJ
Hi.
I did read a few pages through this forum a couple of weeks ago without finding the information and I'll be soon flying to Kiev.
Only staying 3 days so I'd rather stay in a 5 star hotel, but will there be any issue having girls coming up to my room? If so, what are the alternatives, in high end and SAFE apartments?
Thanks!
Hi.
I did read a few pages through this forum a couple of weeks ago without finding the information and I'll be soon flying to Kiev.
Only staying 3 days so I'd rather stay in a 5 star hotel, but will there be any issue having girls coming up to my room? If so, what are the alternatives, in high end and SAFE apartments?
Thanks!Hello!
I always use this agency: http://luxury-kiev-apartment.com/fr/
I never have problem with it. For short or long terme.
Thanks for the link Jipepe!
Yet I don't feel much confortable in a building not properly staffed with security plus I like the service in hotels. What are the issues to be expected when trying to have girls come to one's hotel room in Kiev, for instance in the Intercontinental?
Can someone please give a brief list of the apartment agencies in Kiev. I know a few have been mentioned on this forum such as kievapts. Com, kievapartment. Com, and luxuary-Kiev-apartment. Com. It would be great if someone can list and rate the agencies as to their credibility and $ for $ value. It would mean a lot more if it came from a senior member that is well traveled in Kiev.
Also, I am thinking of staying at the new Ibis for a few days until I find a place. Anything wrong with that?
What is tipping practice (if any) for 1. Erotic massages with happy ending and 2. Full service from either Rio or Mamba?
Thanks in advance
GreyGoose69
09-22-11, 23:47
Hi there, I'm planning a trip to Kiev in October. I've reserved my apartment for a week and I'm planning to go at night to Rio, D-Lux and Buddha bar to meet gorgeous girls.
I'm looking for 8s and up. What are the other bars that I should add to my list? Paradise? Is Mandarin opened? Dante?
During the days, I would like to invite girls at my apartement or to check out incalls. After reading the reviews, I looked at GIA, Mambu and top modals websites. I prefer the girls looks on top modals but it is difficult to know if they are real pictures or not. Here are some examples:
http://www.top-modals.com/?id=4099
http://www.top-modals.com/?id=4637
http://www.top-modals.com/?id=4590
Any good experience with top modals? Any girl recommendation on mambu? Please PM me if you can help me.
Thanks
Hi.
I did read a few pages through this forum a couple of weeks ago without finding the information and I'll be soon flying to Kiev.
Only staying 3 days so I'd rather stay in a 5 star hotel, but will there be any issue having girls coming up to my room? If so, what are the alternatives, in high end and SAFE apartments?
Thanks!Forget hotels, apartments are definitely better.
Just make sure it has water heater so you have warm water for shower AND internet
Hi there, I'm planning a trip to Kiev in October. I've reserved my apartment for a week and I'm planning to go at night to Rio, D-Lux and Buddha bar to meet gorgeous girls.
I'm looking for 8s and up. What are the other bars that I should add to my list? Paradise? Is Mandarin opened? Dante?
During the days, I would like to invite girls at my apartement or to check out incalls. After reading the reviews, I looked at GIA, Mambu and top modals websites. I prefer the girls looks on top modals but it is difficult to know if they are real pictures or not. Here are some examples:
http://www.top-modals.com/?id=4099
http://www.top-modals.com/?id=4637
http://www.top-modals.com/?id=4590
Any good experience with top modals? Any girl recommendation on mambu? Please PM me if you can help me.
ThanksBe aware that for two of the girls you selected as examples, you will note that in the upper left hand section of their profile, it lists their "girlfriends". This is a tell-tale sign of an agency with many girls. This fact lessens the possibility that the claim of "speaks english" and "real photo" are true.
That being said, my experience with girls from top-modals. Com has been good. In the end of 2009, I called one girl from that website and she was very good, a cute blonde. Her pics were true (although photoshopped). She had a sweet personality. And we had fun. She is very skinny and slender but a nice ass, and not a model face, so I give her a 7 maybe. But I enjoyed her, liked her, and stayed friends with her since then, trying to see her each time I visit Kiev. During 2010 visits she has brought with her two other girls who are also on the top-modals website with their true pics, also girls on a 7 level, attractive and sexy, but not the most model pretty girls. So I know for a fact that three of the girls on top-modals. Com did use their actual pics. They were not obviously connected with any agency. All three of them also advertise on mamba. Ru. As you review the pics, you will begin to recognize the pics of the girls who appear on both websites. My experience with three of the girls on top-modals. Com website, is by no means any guarantee that all other girls who write "real photo" on their profile are telling the truth, especially those girls connected with an agency with other "girlfriends" listed in top left corner of profile, or the same telephone number (which you can see if you sort by phone number). However, it does mean that there is a good possibility that there are other girls who are using true pics. Therefore, in my opinion, it is worth your time to try and see who shows up. The worst that can happen if an ugly girl shows up, is that you will send her away and have wasted a little time. But this is a good activity for part of your daytime in Kiev, or you can try going to incall apartments (but think about your security and take some precautions if your going to go to some unknown location in a foreign city) , or you can try to pick up girls on streets and malls. But calling for girls from mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or a number of other internet websites, is certainly worth it for a daytime activity. You may find an 8 that way too. At night however, go to the clubs, either Rio, or the nightclubs. If mandarin has opened, definitely try it and report.
I will be in Kiev for week of October 10. 16 and October 23. 25.
I will be doing all the same as I advised you, although this time I have been pursuing a few leads on travelgirls. Com and don't know how it will turn out, and whether it will just be regular dates, or if the girls are into p4p. None of the girls has raised the issue of p4p so far, so I am playing it as normal dates, and I will try to get into their pants as freebies. The interesting thing is that most of these girls on travelgirls are unabashed about asking you to bring presents for them. I wonder what they have in mind in exchange for gifts. We'll see.
LJ
I was a little bit tired of Rio so I decided to buy some dress clothes to get into the nightclubs. I went to Buddha bar first and yeah they were a lot of working girls but none of them looked attractive to me so didn't even bother asking prices. I left then for D-Lux which is pretty close, it was super crowded. I heard there were a lot of hookers in there, but I don't know if I'm stupid or what, but I didn't recognize any. Also was not impressed by the beauty of the regular girls. I see way more beautifuls girls on a day street walking on Kreschatyk. One 8 told something to me, I don't know if she was a hooker or not, probably not. I told her I didn't speak Russian and she left with a disappointed face.
So overall not v good experience.
What would you recommend to find 9's. 10's working girls or not? Many girls recommended me Dante so I'm planning to go there tomorrow, are there any WG's there? In my way back I went to Arena but I was kind of confused as where to go as the place is so huge. Anyone recommend this place?
Thanks,
I will be doing all the same as I advised you, although this time I have been pursuing a few leads on travelgirls. Com and don't know how it will turn out, and whether it will just be regular dates, or if the girls are into p4p. None of the girls has raised the issue of p4p so far, so I am playing it as normal dates, and I will try to get into their pants as freebies. The interesting thing is that most of these girls on travelgirls are unabashed about asking you to bring presents for them. I wonder what they have in mind in exchange for gifts. We'll see.
LJLJ,
I did check out travelgirls when it was mentioned by somebody else on this forum a few weeks ago. When I did, as soon as I registered with them, several girls responded like pests, so I thought travelgirls must be like Adult Friend Finders years ago when they just started at the dawn of internet (I don't know how AFF is these days.) , meaning the girls responded must be fakes. But that was just my experience, and I can easily be wrong.
In any case, isn't travelgirls for finding girls to travel with? What are you planning? Just meet with them in Kiev?
By all means, good luck!
BTW, you're lucky that you can go to Kiev so often. I can go there only once or twice a year, albeit the fact that I might be able to stay there longer. It's just that Europe feels very far from California. I might not be able to go back to Kiev until next summer! Living in NY, you must feel going to Kiev is like going to LA.
Member #4491
09-24-11, 19:52
Yes, Travelgirls will spam you with messages from a bunch of unrealistically friendly and accommodating girls, in order to make you pay the fee. Avoid unless you wish to spend money sending messages.
Barba
Yes, Travelgirls will spam you with messages from a bunch of unrealistically friendly and accommodating girls, in order to make you pay the fee. Avoid unless you wish to spend money sending messages.
BarbaHmmm, so maybe once you pay and register, then real girls would respond?
Hmmm, so maybe once you pay and register, then real girls would respond?Guys, I have seen the prior reports of Immy007 that he has met with and dated girls from the travelgirls website in Kiev. I am going forward on that basis. I am in email correspondence with three girls out of the fifty I sent messages to, with plans to meet them for a normal date. I don't know what they really want. I know that my goal is to ultimately get into their pants, as in any date. They don't seem to have p4p on their minds, and one has even explicitly said she's not an escort, while a second is talking about looking for a real relationship leading to marriage and family life, and the third is a professional photographer with her own website. These appear to be real women. Is their goal simply to get gifts, or perhaps only to make friends with men who can take them on travel and exotic trips in exchange for their company (and their favors?)? I don't know. I will find out soon enough.
You won't have long to wait to find out what happened regarding the travelgirls dates. My next visit to Kiev will be October 10. 16, and October 23. 25.
I have again decided to make sidetrips on the way into and going home from Kiev, as a "sex insurance policy", as I advised in a previous post, is wise to do. This time I plan on stopping in London for an overnight on October 9 on the way in to Kiev. And on the return from Kiev I am having an overnight stopover in Budapest. Why Budapest? Simply because I am using rewards mileage from an airline which partners with Malev to make this trip, so that was the option available coming home from Kiev. I have not decided yet whether to stay in Budapest or to hop on the train to Vienna for that overnight. I haven't decided what to do yet. It's a three hour train ride from Budapest to Vienna, and although you cannot beat an FKK for arriving at complete sexual exhaustion, I am pondering if it's worth the three hours on the train to get to Vienna, and perhaps I should play in Budapest that night. I may leave the decision to the last minute.
Vienna has many great options, including FKK Goldentime, which is similar to FKK Oase near Frankfurt in its essentials, except that the proximity of Vienna to the Slovak Republic and to Hungary, results in a large contingent of beautiful blondes and some brunettes from these countries, whereas in Frankfurt FKKs the dominant type is the Romanian and Bulgarian swarthy darker skinned black haired hardbodies. Vienna also has Laufhaus brothel buildings as well as very good outcal agencies, all listed on www.kontaktbazar.at.
Budapest is also a good mongering destination too.
Check out the listings on Budapest websites such as:
http://www.fotogarancia.hu/szexpartnerek/fotogarancias_szexpartner/hu
http://www.szexmost.hu/angol/index.php
http://www.piroslampa.net/piros.php?lang=en&pg=girls
http://www.rosszlanyok.hu/rosszlanyok.php?pid=szexpartner-lista&htext=45&Online-szexpartner
http://www.redzone.hu/all-callgirls
I invite the input of the forum members as to the best plan for the stopovers coming and going.
LJ
Does anyone know what append to the vodka escort website?
Vodkaescort. Com
Hi Friends,
After being out for many years I returned to Pune. I have been reading this Forum and the various reports and have a fair idea of how it goes for mongering in India in a general sense and Pune in particular. This is my first report, however, and any errors or omissions may kindly be excused.
Earlier this week I got the number of an independent who also has other girls who use her flat in the Western part of the city, near Saangvi. After getting close to where she is located I was given more precise directions and found her flat. She had a twenty-year old girl available and since she looked fresh and read agreed to take her.
After the preliminaries, she helped me off with my clothes and did the same, covering herself with a towel just to prolong the wait. In the nude she had firm breasts, clean appearance overall and she said she is open to most anything except French on her and anal. She gave me a very good BBBJ and is also a good kisser. After one round of the oral, it took me a while (and with her constant touching) to get ready again. Using the condom that I always carry, we did a very good doggy, her thrusting to get in as deep as possible was a real turn-on. We finished almost together, if her reactions and moaning were not faked. It was a very satisfactory ending, being cleaned up in the bathroom and then just hanging out together with the provider for a few minutes. The girl does not live in Pune but in another city and comes for a week or so every month.
So, in keeping with the summary that you guys use.
Looks: 7/10.
Body: 7/10.
Attitude: 8/10.
Service: 8/10.
BBBJ: 8/10.
Charges: 4K.
Window is open to exchange the contact with fellow mongers. PM me.
158313
Member #4491
09-25-11, 17:22
Hi Friends.
Using the condom that I always carry, we did a very good doggy, her thrusting to get in as deep as possible was a real turn-on.Thank you for your report. Nice girl, and equally misplaced in this thread. .
Does this condom not impose problems for you in various daily situations? Seems to be a well used piece of rubber that you are carrying around.
All the best from Barba
Does anyone know what append to the vodka escort website?
Vodkaescort. ComIt looks like hackers have hit the vodkaescort website. I have sent them an email to see what's up. They were supposed to be lining up some dates for me for my upcoming trip October 10. 16. So we'll see if they respond. Interestingly, I have noticed that they have been setting up additional websites under different names but marketing some of the same girls. Maybe they are changing formats. We'll see. I will post any info that is reliable that becomes available.
LJ
Forget hotels, apartments are definitely better.
Just make sure it has water heater so you have warm water for shower AND internetThanks Muddy!
Who has a bad experience to share though bringing girls to one's hotel room in Kiev?
First link I checked states there is no problem bringing girls to hotels in Kiev. And I'm far from convinced with the quality of the apartments in the link previously posted.
http://katerina.escort-site.com/hotels-in-kiev.phtml
Another escort website is not quite as enthusiastic :
"Is it possible to invite girls to the hotel?
Of course you can invite escort to your hotel room before 11. 30 pm. But be careful, there are hotels with strict rules: Kiev Hotel, Ukraine Hotel and hotel Kreshatik. Our escorts can't enter these hotels. But in other cases just meet your woman downstairs. It's also known that security in our hotels sometimes take money in such situations. You'll have to pay from $10 to $20 (100 gryvnas) to let your girl in without problems."
Any feedback on The Intercontinental or other 5 stars?
CityHunter77
09-28-11, 14:04
Another escort website is not quite as enthusiastic :
"Is it possible to invite girls to the hotel?
Of course you can invite escort to your hotel room before 11. 30 pm. But be careful, there are hotels with strict rules: Kiev Hotel, Ukraine Hotel and hotel Kreshatik. Our escorts can't enter these hotels. But in other cases just meet your woman downstairs. It's also known that security in our hotels sometimes take money in such situations. You'll have to pay from $10 to $20 (100 gryvnas) to let your girl in without problems."
Any feedback on The Intercontinental or other 5 stars?I had no problems bringing back girls to the Opera Hotel
Didn't have to pay security any money at all.
Best to get an apartment
It looks like hackers have hit the vodkaescort website. I have sent them an email to see what's up. They were supposed to be lining up some dates for me for my upcoming trip October 10. 16. So we'll see if they respond. Interestingly, I have noticed that they have been setting up additional websites under different names but marketing some of the same girls. Maybe they are changing formats. We'll see. I will post any info that is reliable that becomes available.
LJLiljoey,
Can you send me the links?
Hi everybody,
Firts time in Kiev next week and I would like to try an erotic massage.
Can you suggest the best salons?
I have heard of Salon Dolly and Rakuena.
Any direct experience with them?
Any tricks to get better service?
Thanks in advance boys!
UltraFlap
DoctorOral
09-30-11, 14:48
Doll ydoes it all.
And do not chose pretty, but friendly.
And consider taking the risk of tipping before.
And no expect "extras"
Hi everybody,
Firts time in Kiev next week and I would like to try an erotic massage.
Can you suggest the best salons?
I have heard of Salon Dolly and Rakuena.
Any direct experience with them?
Any tricks to get better service?
Thanks in advance boys!
UltraFlap
Everybody here is talking about Rio but very few words about Mint Rhinoceros strip club
Bad experiences there or just a waste of time?
Thanks
I just noticed that Miss Ukraine had been chosen as the first runner up at the Miss Universe pageant held a few weeks ago in Brazil.
http://www.missuniverse.com/members/profile/599577/year:2011
I also noticed that there was only one blonde in the top 10. Are they weak in Q&A?
Liljoey,
Can you send me the links?Joe Tnb:
The website problem has been fixed. The link is www.vodkaescort.com. However still no answer from them to my email of several days ago. I guess we'll see if they are functioning by the time of my arrival in Kiev on October 10 and the girls I was interested in are available.
UltraFlap:
Check out posts by TheKnight about the pros / cons of various strip clubs posted some time back. Rio is being spoken about because they have a lower take out price than the other places that have take out, and the Rhino clubs didn't have take out as an option. If you're just interested in a strip club for dances, then Rhino has hot girls. But if you want the chance to take a girl back to your apartment / hotel for sex, you need to go to a strip club that has that possibility of take out. Get with it, man. You have to read the forum. Go back and start reading from at least as far back as March of this year. You'll get the whole picture.
LJ
Ticking Timebomb
10-02-11, 10:18
Dear Roll Buzz,
I will address your interest in Linda at Mamba. Ru below.
So with regard to this girl, being cheery early in the day is not her strong point. Beware of the limitations she imposed on services, and if you want more services than a quick covered BJ and a fuck, get them cleared with the lady who answers the phone in English as to what you expect in terms of services, so that the girl will have been told in advance what is expected, as she speaks no English.
LJGood day gentleman. It's my first post here and I thought I'd kick off with a reference to the above mentioned Linda. But before I do. A quick intro to me. I am an expat resident in Kiev and I tend to go through periods of dating freebies, a bit of p4p and just generally mixing it up. P4P when I'm horny and alone. Freebies when I don't mind playing the long game.
A week or so back. 6 or 7am, I'm back at my place after a night out on my own, trolling a few places in the centre. Wasted too much time chatting to a girl in Rio, and ended up taxiing it home alone and logging in to Mamba.
I called the number that I got from messaging Linda's profile and spoke to a women with good English. Usual story. "I'll call you when I'm downstairs". Etc etc. Can you pay for my taxi? Blah.
So, a mere 30 minutes later, Linda is downstairs in a cab. I go down and check her out. Nice enough looking girl, so I pay the fare and she comes up. But, as soon as I pay, I realise my mistake. She's got the demeanor of a particularly melancholy undertaker and the smile to go with it. She would have come across as more friendly if she'd just eaten a kilo of rancid gooseberries, so she didn't make it as far as my apartment before I sent her home. I just got a feeling of contempt from this girl. Undisguised. I don't think it matters what time of day it is. She's just not the smiley, happy, touchy feely type.
A thought on using Mamba: Next to a girl's profile, there's a "reply bar" a coloured bar which shows the frequency at which the person in the profile responds to messages. Green, for high response, red for very low and yellow and orange in between. If a girl is offering p4p and her profile has a green bar (high response) , chances are it's an agency. On the other hand, if she has a very low response rate, she's more likely to be genuinely independent (low response rate is also indicative of an older profile, and less likely to be one of those frequently changed agency bait and switch profiles) , and quite possibly the girl in photos. Of course, it's only a rough guide, but it helps me choose who to write to.
Another thing I do is Google the telephone number the "independent" girl sends me. It's important to retype the whole number, because they disguise the number by using different characters for numbers to supposedly fool the website's mods. Also, search the number without the country code. Just begin with 0. This number search will often show some kind of escort web site contact number, along with photos of several girls, none of whom is the girl you thought you were exchanging messages with. Of course, just because the number doesn't show any results, doesn't mean it isn't an agency, but it helps to eliminate the definite agencies.
Good day gentleman. It's my first post here and I thought I'd kick off with a reference to the above mentioned Linda. But before I do. A quick intro to me. I am an expat resident in Kiev and I tend to go through periods of dating freebies, a bit of p4p and just generally mixing it up. P4P when I'm horny and alone. Freebies when I don't mind playing the long game.
A week or so back. 6 or 7am, I'm back at my place after a night out on my own, trolling a few places in the centre. Wasted too much time chatting to a girl in Rio, and ended up taxiing it home alone and logging in to Mamba.
I called the number that I got from messaging Linda's profile and spoke to a women with good English. Usual story."I'll call you when I'm downstairs". Etc etc. Can you pay for my taxi? Blah.
So, a mere 30 minutes later, Linda is downstairs in a cab. I go down and check her out. Nice enough looking girl, so I pay the fare and she comes up. But, as soon as I pay, I realise my mistake. She's got the demeanor of a particularly melancholy undertaker and the smile to go with it. She would have come across as more friendly if she'd just eaten a kilo of rancid gooseberries, so she didn't make it as far as my apartment before I sent her home. I just got a feeling of contempt from this girl. Undisguised. I don't think it matters what time of day it is. She's just not the smiley, happy, touchy feely type.
A thought on using Mamba: Next to a girl's profile, there's a "reply bar" a coloured bar which shows the frequency at which the person in the profile responds to messages. Green, for high response, red for very low and yellow and orange in between. If a girl is offering p4p and her profile has a green bar (high response) , chances are it's an agency. On the other hand, if she has a very low response rate, she's more likely to be genuinely independent (low response rate is also indicative of an older profile, and less likely to be one of those frequently changed agency bait and switch profiles) , and quite possibly the girl in photos. Of course, it's only a rough guide, but it helps me choose who to write to.
Another thing I do is Google the telephone number the "independent" girl sends me. It's important to retype the whole number, because they disguise the number by using different characters for numbers to supposedly fool the website's mods. Also, search the number without the country code. Just begin with 0. This number search will often show some kind of escort web site contact number, along with photos of several girls, none of whom is the girl you thought you were exchanging messages with. Of course, just because the number doesn't show any results, doesn't mean it isn't an agency, but it helps to eliminate the definite agencies.TickingTimebomb, what is it about my description of Linda's demeanor that you didn't get when you read it? Here's what I wrote:
LINDA@MAMBA.
For your benefit, since you are intending to contact her, I will include some additional details, which are worthwhile for you to know in advance.
Here is her link so the guys can understand who we're talking about:
http://www.mamba.ru/lindavasina/?afolder=albums
Although the lady I spoke to on the phone as "Linda" spoke English well, the girl who came had no English skills. But I have taken another look at her photos on the mamba. Ru site, and I retract what I wrote. I now believe the pictures are true. It is just that in the pictures the girl appears a bit shorter than the taller slender girl I saw. But that could be the result of moving the edges of a photo during editing without maintaining the same length / width proportions, which could account for her more squat appearance in the photos. But looking at the face, I can see that it was the same face. Her hair was not down and flowing nicely as in the photos, but rather wrapped in some sort of wraparound headress which made her look like a cleaning lady (my first impression). But as I looked at her, I could see her body was ok, and her facial features cute, and I was quite horny at that point a few hours after getting home from Rio empty-handed.
But here is the part I didn't write about before. It concerns her demeanor. When she arrived she acted very hesitant, and was looking down at the ground like a little girl who was just scolded. I tried to make small talk and put her at ease in the apartment, but in the whole time she would not raise her eyes to look at me. I found her behavior weird. She looked distracted and irritated. I asked her if she wanted to go. She said no, she will stay. I asked if anything was wrong. She said no she just didn't want to get up that early from bed to come at 10:30am. I asked her if she was up the whole night and what time she normally gets up. She said she gets up around 2pm. However, even though her story was that she was just cranky because she was tired, it didn't add up to her behavior which seemed like she was resentful of something, or perhaps ashamed. Maybe she didn't want to be doing this work and was conflicted about it because she wanted the money. I tried to imagine reasons that would match her behavior. Anyway, I tried to put her at ease by being as sweet to her as I can be. But as a precaution to this whole thing blowing up, when she asked for the 600 UAH up front, I said that I will agree to place it on the table for her to take only when she leaves. She agreed to that. She refused to permit DATY. She refused to do a BBBJ, and wanted only covered BJ. She didn't want BBBJ, even for more money. So I had her lay next to me and start with a hand job using some lubricant. Then when I was ready she took the condom and put it on me and started a covered BJ which looked nice to watch, but was short-lived as I had feared might be the case with her. She stopped doing the BJ after a short time and looked at me as if to say, now we have sex? Rolling with the flow, I didn't complain because I thought she might not complete the session, so I fucked her, but not a quick fuck, in order to make up for the shortness of the BJ, and finally she was getting into it and smiling. At the end she said she could come back tomorrow. I asked tomorrow you let me kiss your pussy? She smiled and nodded "yes".
So with regard to this girl, being cheery early in the day is not her strong point. Beware of the limitations she imposed on services, and if you want more services than a quick covered BJ and a fuck, get them cleared with the lady who answers the phone in English as to what you expect in terms of services, so that the girl will have been told in advance what is expected, as she speaks no English.
LJI laughed my head off at your descriptions of her demeanor. It's true. That's how she comes off at first. But I also wrote the solution. You have to look past her demeanor, sweet talk her until you get your dick inside her, and then fuck her real good! Then she smiles___LOL.
LJ
Ticking Timebomb
10-03-11, 09:07
TickingTimebomb, what is it about my description of Linda's demeanor that you didn't get when you read it? Here's what I wrote:
LJI didn't make the connection between her and your report, until it suddenly (when I met her and connected the name) clicked that you'd written about this little bundle of happiness and joy. I could have persevered but. I just wasn't in the mood for some grumpy assed chick making me feel unwelcome in my own apartment.
CallSign Papa
10-03-11, 11:53
Thanks for the tip T_T. I thought I was as bit of a Mamba pro (having had an array of good, average and awful experiences from the P2P profiles there) , but I'd never considered the reply rate. Will definitely bear it in mind when I'm back in town at the end of the month.
As for sending her away before she got to the apartment, probably the right move, if she can't be bothered to fake civility at the door, I doubt she'll fake much better in the sack = dead fish.
Plateaufan
10-03-11, 17:02
Joe Tnb:
The website problem has been fixed. The link is.
www.vodkaescort.com
However still no answer from them to my email of several days ago. I guess we'll see if they are functioning by the time of my arrival in Kiev on October 10 and the girls I was interested in are available.
UltraFlap:
Check out posts by TheKnight about the pros / cons of various strip clubs posted some time back. Rio is being spoken about because they have a lower take out price than the other places that have take out, and the Rhino clubs didn't have take out as an option. If you're just interested in a strip club for dances, then Rhino has hot girls. But if you want the chance to take a girl back to your apartment / hotel for sex, you need to go to a strip club that has that possibility of take out. Get with it, man. You have to read the forum. Go back and start reading from at least as far back as March of this year. You'll get the whole picture.
LJThanks for the observations. I have used them repeatedly. While their girls generally look like on the pics and are reasonable enthusiastic, their customer response is at times very slow or even non existent. Do not know why as they should take care of their customers.
I didn't make the connection between her and your report, until it suddenly (when I met her and connected the name) clicked that you'd written about this little bundle of happiness and joy. I could have persevered but. I just wasn't in the mood for some grumpy assed chick making me feel unwelcome in my own apartment.Of course you made the correct decision in sending her away, since her services are limited, and there is no guarantee of her warming to you after you get inside her pants. Had I not been so horny from spending the entire night at Rio and then coming home from there empty-handed, I would have sent her away also.
Keep writing! I appreciated your ability to turn a phrase.
LJ
Ticking Timebomb
10-04-11, 03:36
yes, the supermarket is a dangerous place to shop when the juices are flowing, but the alternative is having a wank and. well what's the point? when you wank, you fantasize about having sex with a woman or three. of course, some of you may have kinkier fantasies deposited in the wank bank, but my point is if i'm sitting in front of my pc late at night, well the ease and speed at which i can have a non-pixel girl round at my gaff. it's just too tempting.
so, from time to time, i have had some interesting "blind dates" show up. the one who brought her sister, ('my good friend') was definitely a highlight. this was a genuine, non-salon, real photo hook-up. sometimes you get lucky. sometimes you get more than you bargained for.
a few nights back is an example. 6am, home from unfruitful wanderings (it's ironic that i'm so picky when i'm out on the town but end up playing pot luck with mamba) and i called an obvious agency ad on mamba. a girl showed up a bit later than promised and came into my flat, started flirting, devoured a load of cognac and dragged me off to the bedroom. we had a drunken and prolonged shagathon. she drank more cognac and passed out. i was knackered by that point anyway (noon) and fit to zonk out. the agency kept ringing her mobile (she'the already stalled them a load of times when she was awake – an enthusiastic bed partner) , so i finally answered it and told the guy (yeah, guy) on the other end that she was crashed out. we shared a laugh about it and he asked me if she was "good girl". well, i wasn't quite sure how i should inerpret "good girl" considering the circumstances and what we'd just been up to and that she'd probably not fit into most people's "good girl" stereotype. but i'm not most people. i assured him that she was a "good girl" and we wished each other good night. i was just about to roll over and get some sleep when she started pissing herself. no, not laughing. actually pissing my bed. i was like,"fuck!" i tried to move her, wake her up get her to stop or at least run to the frigging bathroom, but she was in the sleep of the very drunk. so i had no choice but to leave her there. the next day's laundry was fun.
she finally left at 3 in the afternoon. i didn't tell her about the bed wetting incident. what would be the point? total cost – 2 hours@600 uah per hour. total time in my flat – 8 hours (of which 4 or 5 were with our eyes open). she gave bbbj, anal and just about anything else we could dream up between us.
so, this is me paying back for all those useful (sometimes confusing) reports that i've read here. also, i think a list of mamba tips would be useful on this forum. dos and don'ts etc.
t-t
On my first Mongering trip to KIEV, I got hold of the English daily Paper Kyiv, Kiev Post, and under the personal section there were quite few ads for Agencies, Salons, aka Brothels and many independent girls.
Tried calling few of them and every single number that I called was answered and in Good English.
Thought I dip my toes in the Waters of one called Marina, who seemed very friendly and fluent in English. The girl who showed up was a real Cracker, a Tatar girl.
She was a young student very good English and great in the Sack, no rush.
I paid from memory about US$ 80.
Apparantely Kiev Post is used by quite few students in Kiev to Brush up on the Language & 2 earn much needed US$$. Prices comparable 2 Mamba & others, but the chances of nailing newbies& semi Pros were much higher.
Also I was told by another that they prefer meeting men through the Paper, because its a better type of Monger 2 meet than some on Mamba, who called them Weirdos.
I did post on my Experience with Kiev Post, but my Joy Killer at the time (UK e Boy) promptly replied that I should hold on to that copy pf the paper (I listened to him on this) because a Pakistani Businessman has just bought the paper and the first thing that he was going 2 do with the paper, is 2 ban the Personal ads for Sex there.
Of course there were no photos published, but I just relied on my hunch when I spoke with them on the Phone.
I figured if they are not 2 expectations, then just a friendly goodbye + taxi Money.
Hate to send away a girl empty handed + I wanted 2 keep an friendly contact just in case the girl was working 4 an agency. This way I keep bridges open with them 4 future contacts.
Anyone here used Kiev Post (Freely Availabe in the Lobby of Upmarket Hotels) , or was it just me who tried it?
I was a little bit tired of Rio so I decided to buy some dress clothes to get into the nightclubs. I went to Buddha bar first and yeah they were a lot of working girls but none of them looked attractive to me so didn't even bother asking prices. I left then for D-Lux which is pretty close, it was super crowded. I heard there were a lot of hookers in there, but I don't know if I'm stupid or what, but I didn't recognize any. Also was not impressed by the beauty of the regular girls. I see way more beautifuls girls on a day street walking on Kreschatyk. One 8 told something to me, I don't know if she was a hooker or not, probably not. I told her I didn't speak Russian and she left with a disappointed face.
So overall not v good experience.
What would you recommend to find 9's. 10's working girls or not? Many girls recommended me Dante so I'm planning to go there tomorrow, are there any WG's there? In my way back I went to Arena but I was kind of confused as where to go as the place is so huge. Anyone recommend this place?
Thanks, What would you recommend to find 9's. 10's working girls or not?
What would you recommend to find 9's. 10's working girls or not?You mean where?
At modeling agencies or Petter Hegre's apartment in Kiev.
I checked two numbers of agencies in top-modals, and all pictures as well as services advertised are bogus so don't get overexcited with the "Real Photo" mention. Luckily it becomes clear on the phone so one doesn't need to waste time and money any further.
http://www.top-modals.com/?q=0985448444
None of the girls in pictures are available, girls available offer no anal and only CBJ.
http://www.top-modals.com/?q=0987804343
Same story
You mean where?
At modeling agencies or Petter Hegre's apartment in Kiev.Thank you for your response.
This is not my question but Nmlfree's.
I think he means such as night club, disco and strip club. Etc.
He says he visited Rio, Buddha bar and D-Lux but could not find any 9's or 10's working girls there.
DoctorOral
10-09-11, 12:26
OK. I have tried Mamba contacts again. 50% sucess rate:
1. I have never seen such ugly fat girlfriends piled in an apartment for the first try (4 girlfriends in an apartment, although this girl said to be working alone and had fake. But real. Pictures in her profile.)
2. I have never been luckier. One blonde girl, one brunette / dark. In an apartement very central. Claiming to be bisexual!
When walking into their apartment, I claimed "you are mine" to the blonde. Having the dark one starting a catfight and already pushing her pussy into the blonde's face in the livingroom.
Proceeded to bedroom after shower. Double (deep) blowjob. 69, licking, girls eating each other, playing with dildo ect. Spend the nicest two hours with two girls for two hundred ($) coming two times and having each one come once (making two again)! I did not come into the blondes mouth since the dark was quicker twice. But they kissed after I came and my cum somehow disappeared in our mouths.
Will post fotos when I come to it.
On my first Mongering trip to KIEV, I got hold of the English daily Paper Kyiv, Kiev Post, and under the personal section there were quite few ads for Agencies, Salons, aka Brothels and many independent girls.
Tried calling few of them and every single number that I called was answered and in Good English.
Thought I dip my toes in the Waters of one called Marina, who seemed very friendly and fluent in English. The girl who showed up was a real Cracker, a Tatar girl.
She was a young student very good English and great in the Sack, no rush.
I paid from memory about US$ 80.
Apparantely Kiev Post is used by quite few students in Kiev to Brush up on the Language & 2 earn much needed US$$. Prices comparable 2 Mamba & others, but the chances of nailing newbies& semi Pros were much higher.
Also I was told by another that they prefer meeting men through the Paper, because its a better type of Monger 2 meet than some on Mamba, who called them Weirdos.
I did post on my Experience with Kiev Post, but my Joy Killer at the time (UK e Boy) promptly replied that I should hold on to that copy pf the paper (I listened to him on this) because a Pakistani Businessman has just bought the paper and the first thing that he was going 2 do with the paper, is 2 ban the Personal ads for Sex there.
Of course there were no photos published, but I just relied on my hunch when I spoke with them on the Phone.
I figured if they are not 2 expectations, then just a friendly goodbye + taxi Money.
Hate to send away a girl empty handed + I wanted 2 keep an friendly contact just in case the girl was working 4 an agency. This way I keep bridges open with them 4 future contacts.
Anyone here used Kiev Post (Freely Availabe in the Lobby of Upmarket Hotels) , or was it just me who tried it?Anyone in Kiev right now who could check Kiev post to find out, wether there are any ads for Sex in the Personal Section.
I can't find the Personals online when browsing Kiev post.
GreyGoose69
10-10-11, 02:17
After reading some helpful posts (LJ and others) , I have to share my experience in Kiev.
First, I would say that I really had a good time in Kiev vs FKK Frankfurt.
Kiev's girls are much more beautiful and friendly in general.
FKK Frankfurt.
FKK girl's know how to do a blow job. The problem is most of them have a bad attitude, they can be agressive. I went with 2 girls at FKK Palace, they said they were from Hungaria, I paid 50euros for a short session, they just want you to come as quickly as possible, service 6 looks 8.
KIEV.
RIO.
Sofia: young blond hottie, nice curves and pretty face with blue eyes, service was sexy and fun, CBJ, service 8 looks 9.
Vlada: beautiful brunette, thin with nice tits, bad attitude, she will charge you more than the standard 300$/3hrs for a poor service, service 6 looks 9.
I had also dances from Nina, sexy but no take out.
Top-modals.
I've called 2 different girls with nice pictures but I refused both at the door, pictures were 9's, girls were 5-6's for looks.
Mamba
I've contacted many girls with nice pictures. 50% answered. Some just gave me prices and wanted to come to my place. For security and trying not to waste too much time, I've decided to call only the ones that I had a good chat with before meeting them.
Finally, I've met only 1 girl from mamba, a cutie with GFE service, she was so nice that I've seen her twice, a real deal at 200$ for 3hrs+, service 10 looks 8.
Clubs.
Buddha bar.
Nice bar / restaurant, I've seen 2 girls from buddha, one was good and one was bad.
#1:The first one was a cute brunette with bad english but an amazing body, small waist, big tits, soft skin. Her CBJ was the worst one I ever had but the sex was great. Service 7 looks 8.
#2:The experience with the second women was horrible. A thin blonde with nice smile and good english but with fake boobs and the worst attitude. I don't remember her name but she was with a tanned brunette sitting down in chairs, not at the bar but not too far waiting for the next fish. If you talk to her, she will tell you that she has learned her english in London, just ask her about her service and if you're not drunk, you will stay away, damage 350$/2hrs, service 4 looks 7.
DLux.
Nice club, I've seen several WGs but they were 7s so I was not interested especially at 200$/hr. Some hot girls in the club tough, I manage to spoke to a few in english, I got one number from a non- WG.
Finally, I can say that Ukrainian girls are hot, you can see many 8-9s in the streets or bars during daytime or at night. Some will talk to you, some will ignore you. Of course it is better to speak Russian if you want to get lucky but you never know, be patient and enjoy the city.
GG
Diablito208
10-10-11, 03:24
I am planning to visit Kiev for vacation. All that have been there please respond as to where I can find beautiful girls or which agencies has the best looking girls. Which is better to rent an apartment or hotel?
Thanks
On the way to Kiev, I stopped in London for one night, which was profitably spent nailing Diva (Lithuanian) and Emanuela (Latvian). See the following two links.
http://www.babylongirls.co.uk/diva_elite-blonde.aspx
http://www.babylongirls.co.uk/emanuela_high-class-escorts.aspx
The pics of these girls are true, however photoshopped. These experiences (both full GFE incl uncovered BJ) have set a high bar for my goals in Kiev this trip. But I will be in Kiev from October 10. 15, so I will have a few more days for fun and games than I usually have at my stopovers there.
Greygoose69. Solid report. It is an accurate representation of what can happen in FKK Palace and in Kiev. The only pointers I would offer are as follows.
In FKK Palace there is an attitude amongst a number of the girls not to give over their souls and use themselves up in giving their "primo" service to guys who only want to spend 50 Euro for a half hour. They want to reserve their VIP treatment to guys who will give them at least an hour session. It was not too long before I realized that a lot of the complaints guys were making about the "Romanian women" at the FKK's had to do with this, because there is nothing that gets a Romanian going (man or woman) than a contest in which someone is trying to get the better of them. My way of having an excellent session with a Romanian woman is to let her know from the beginning that I like to take it slow and for me an hour with her is just the minimum, and I hold out the incentive that if she is really fantastic, an even longer time session just might be possible. I actually enjoy an hour session more than a half hour session, so it suits me well to take this approach. But I recognize that their are guys who want to get their business done in 30 minutes because they want to spend less, and they don't mind the limitations created by the 30 minute time limit for enjoying a session that includes DATY, BJ and various sex positions in a relaxing GFE manner. But I don't think all those sex activities can be done in 30 minutes without a very rushed feeling. So for me, an hour session is a better experience for my purposes, which seeks to experience and savor the moments of GFE time with a very hot young lady. So I take the negotiation situation and turn it around so that all of the girl's self interested motivations are directed, not toward getting the better of me in a contest of wills, but rather toward pleasing me better, and giving me more of a better time, rather than less. You get more with honey, than with vinegar, as the saying goes.
But If you don't enjoy hour sessions with very hot sexually motivated women, then when you encounter one of these girls who has disdain for the standard half hour session. Definitely do NOT session with her. PASS. Try speaking to other girls. Not every girl at Palace is like that.
OR go to FKK Oase instead, where that attitude is less prevalent.
As far as your Kiev experiences, I think you would benefit on your next trip from simply enlarging your statistical sampling of girls from mamba. Ru and from top-modals. Com. Trying only two girls is an insufficient number of attempts to really get the flavor of what's possible. Trying more girls from these sources (and other internet sites and the streets and malls and stores) , even if you have to send most away, will give you a better chance at finding the one or two girls who are hot enough to add into your little black book for daytime Kiev sexcapades, in between your mongering efforts at night in thhe clubs.
LJ
Names (profile names) of the Mamba girls would be appreciated. I think you are right not to call those who only quote price, because they probably are no privates, students, etc, but come from agencies. For such girls is better to call Gia or other agencies and discuss with operator. So, info about girls would be nice. RB.
PS but 200$ is maybe godd for a whole night?
Mamba
I've contacted many girls with nice pictures. 50% answered. Some just gave me prices and wanted to come to my place. For security and trying not to waste too much time, I've decided to call only the ones that I had a good chat with before meeting them.
Finally, I've met only 1 girl from mamba, a cutie with GFE service, she was so nice that I've seen her twice, a real deal at 200$ for 3hrs+, service 10 looks 8.
Finally, I can say that Ukrainian girls are hot, you can see many 8-9s in the streets or bars during daytime or at night. Some will talk to you, some will ignore you. Of course it is better to speak Russian if you want to get lucky but you never know, be patient and enjoy the city.
GG
LifeSavour
10-12-11, 15:11
Help guys.
I have been in the Middle East 'prison' working. Just found out I have 15 days of freedom!
Will go to Red Sea.
But I have NO girl (or girls) to meet! And little time now to convince one I am ok, safe to travel too.
Anyone have a girl or 2's contact info that would be interested? Would come? Nice 'tour' from Kyiv?
8 or 9 days?
Thanks in advance!
LS guy
Hakan Demir
10-12-11, 16:45
Lifesavour,
You might try mamba. Ru travel section. There are nice options who look for travel companion and offer sex in return.
Help guys.
I have been in the Middle East 'prison' working. Just found out I have 15 days of freedom!
Will go to Red Sea.
But I have NO girl (or girls) to meet! And little time now to convince one I am ok, safe to travel too.
Anyone have a girl or 2's contact info that would be interested? Would come? Nice 'tour' from Kyiv?
8 or 9 days?
Thanks in advance!
LS guy
DoctorOral
10-13-11, 10:33
Depending on where you go and how nice you are, maybe I can make some suggestions.
Lifesavour,
You might try mamba. Ru travel section. There are nice options who look for travel companion and offer sex in return.
DoctorOral
10-13-11, 10:40
As promised
Member #4491
10-13-11, 19:53
On the way to Kiev, I stopped in London for one night, which was profitably spent nailing Diva (Lithuanian) and Emanuela (Latvian). See the following two links.
http://www.babylongirls.co.uk/diva_elite-blonde.aspx
http://www.babylongirls.co.uk/emanuela_high-class-escorts.aspxLJ, I must hate you for this. LOL. Incredible girls. I am now more than ever motivated to stop commuting to Aisa and try more of the fruit around my own back yard Europe. Will be in Ukraine this autumn or winter, and hope to catch up with some of you great contributers there.
Keep it sleazy!
/B.
LifeSavour
10-15-11, 15:26
Lifesavour,
You might try mamba. Ru travel section. There are nice options who look for travel companion and offer sex in return.In Mamba! Joned in March of 2005!
Had less than 800,000 then.
And the girls were much more OPEN! Now they are 'wiser' and have become jaded!
Much harder these days.
Member #4274
10-15-11, 15:38
I am planning to visit Kiev for vacation. All that have been there please respond as to where I can find beautiful girls or which agencies has the best looking girls. Which is better to rent an apartment or hotel?
ThanksIt depends on how long you are staying but in general it is much better / cheaper to rent a flat in Kiev. There are a few very reputable companies but please be aware you cannot expect the quality of service you have come to expect from the west (if you are from the west, that is). Try to get one as close to Independance Square / Kreshatik Street as you can then visit most places on foot or a short taxi ride. I usually rent from UA RENT but there are other good companies, too.
It depends on how long you are staying but in general it is much better / cheaper to rent a flat in Kiev. There are a few very reputable companies but please be aware you cannot expect the quality of service you have come to expect from the west (if you are from the west, that is). Try to get one as close to Independance Square / Kreshatik Street as you can then visit most places on foot or a short taxi ride. I usually rent from UA RENT but there are other good companies, too.Hi Canadianboy.
Not stalking you, but I was looking forward to read about your experiences in Minsk, now their rouble is in I a Dive mode.
It depends on how long you are staying but in general it is much better / cheaper to rent a flat in Kiev. There are a few very reputable companies but please be aware you cannot expect the quality of service you have come to expect from the west (if you are from the west, that is). Try to get one as close to Independance Square / Kreshatik Street as you can then visit most places on foot or a short taxi ride. I usually rent from UA RENT but there are other good companies, too.Apologies, just read your post in the Minsk thread.
I will be in Kiev tomorrow for 7 days.
Are Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays bad days to try RIO and DLUX? Probably not many girls are there on those days.
I will stay in a flat 10-15 minutes from RIO and DLUX, both are very close to me.
So I will try them for the first time ever.
Don't know if there are other clubs worth trying.
I used to go to River Palace for WGs, I will miss that place in this trip
Toptraveler1
10-16-11, 19:24
I spend too much time in Rio and I tried many many girls there and I talked with almost all the girls. I think that today Rio is not the best option in Kiev but it attracts specially tourists or people who are unable to meet girls in Kiev or on internet. I really think that today most of the girls in Rio act like old professionnal prostitutes. If you are ready to pay 300$ for 3 hours, I think you can stay home because almost everywhere you can find girls for this price.
I had fun with almost all the girls I tried before they become professionnal EXCEPT with Maya (I let her go after 40 mIn) , Regina (not friendly at all) and Anastesia (dose not like sex but a great dancer).
I spend too much time in Rio and I tried many many girls there and I talked with almost all the girls. I think that today Rio is not the best option in Kiev but it attracts specially tourists or people who are unable to meet girls in Kiev or on internet. I really think that today most of the girls in Rio act like old professionnal prostitutes. If you are ready to pay 300$ for 3 hours, I think you can stay home because almost everywhere you can find girls for this price.
I had fun with almost all the girls I tried before they become professionnal EXCEPT with Maya (I let her go after 40 mIn) , Regina (not friendly at all) and Anastesia (dose not like sex but a great dancer).This sounds pretty accurate regarding strippers in the West. Especially the ones that don't go out for money to screw as it's ilegal in many countries (Unless arranged privately. We all know that one Romanian). All that toast & no honey. On my previous trip I spent time with an ex-model 26 years, & also a regular 21 year old girl looking to make a little cash. I had a far better time with the regular girl in & out of bed, opposed to the model. I liked the model but no comparison really.
I spend too much time in Rio and I tried many many girls there and I talked with almost all the girls. I think that today Rio is not the best option in Kiev but it attracts specially tourists or people who are unable to meet girls in Kiev or on internet. I really think that today most of the girls in Rio act like old professionnal prostitutes. If you are ready to pay 300$ for 3 hours, I think you can stay home because almost everywhere you can find girls for this price.
I had fun with almost all the girls I tried before they become professionnal EXCEPT with Maya (I let her go after 40 mIn) , Regina (not friendly at all) and Anastesia (dose not like sex but a great dancer).May I ask you why you let Maya go after 40 min? I thought she was one of the more friendly girls at Rio.
Regina? What does she look like? Has a dark hair? Rather skinny? I might have had her. She was looking nice on stage, but by the time she came out to go out with me, she had taken off her makeup and tried to look unattractive on purpose, I think. No BBBJ, no kissing, not even DATY. She was extremely unfriendly.
F*ck me! I'm to old. I'm out with 20 year old lovely girl. Personality to die for. Well thats optional. As we were talking the "us" getting together part comes up at some time in the evening. However I'm to old at 30. Man thats the first time I had that one in Kiev.
So in the depths of despair I went to Top Modals! Phoned this number 0966332295, asked to meet Sasha 21 I think. 500grn. I get 2 girls around an hour later standing outside my apartment. No Sasha, so I pick one called Alina. The other asked for 100 grn for taxi & I gave her the cash, why. Maybe because it was my first call in many moons to a UKR service. Then Alina asked for $100, I said umm, one moment. Most of you know the drill here. I showed website, she phones agent, talk talk talk, okay leaving or agreed. She's leaving I decide screw it. Okay agreed she looked hotter than most as I remember. 3x boom boom with a wammy on top. Hour over, a little something I can't mention which was a compliment or a bonus for me. Then 100 grn for taxi home. So I'm come on? Seriously, you are actually trying for another 100grn? Smiles at me. 100 grn put forward. So basically just shy off of 100 euros for this escapade.
Toptraveler1
10-17-11, 20:22
May I ask you why you let Maya go after 40 min? I thought she was one of the more friendly girls at Rio.
Regina? What does she look like? Has a dark hair? Rather skinny? I might have had her. She was looking nice on stage, but by the time she came out to go out with me, she had taken off her makeup and tried to look unattractive on purpose, I think. No BBBJ, no kissing, not even DATY. She was extremely unfriendly.Of course Regina is the very slim dark hair girl. She has a small face with black eyes. There is another very slim black hair girl called Alessia or something like this. She is even worse than Regina! Regina is an exemple of the type of girls I talked about, acting like real prostitutes.
Hahaha! Real pro. God forbid! It's only an elite "pay me more money" club.
Anyone had success in meeting women on travelgirls?
I'm registered & curious on others take.
On my first Mongering trip to KIEV, I got hold of the English daily Paper Kyiv, Kiev Post, and under the personal section there were quite few ads for Agencies, Salons, aka Brothels and many independent girls.
Tried calling few of them and every single number that I called was answered and in Good English.
Thought I dip my toes in the Waters of one called Marina, who seemed very friendly and fluent in English. The girl who showed up was a real Cracker, a Tatar girl.
She was a young student very good English and great in the Sack, no rush.
I paid from memory about US$ 80.
Apparantely Kiev Post is used by quite few students in Kiev to Brush up on the Language & 2 earn much needed US$$. Prices comparable 2 Mamba & others, but the chances of nailing newbies& semi Pros were much higher.
Also I was told by another that they prefer meeting men through the Paper, because its a better type of Monger 2 meet than some on Mamba, who called them Weirdos.
I did post on my Experience with Kiev Post, but my Joy Killer at the time (UK e Boy) promptly replied that I should hold on to that copy pf the paper (I listened to him on this) because a Pakistani Businessman has just bought the paper and the first thing that he was going 2 do with the paper, is 2 ban the Personal ads for Sex there.
Of course there were no photos published, but I just relied on my hunch when I spoke with them on the Phone.
I figured if they are not 2 expectations, then just a friendly goodbye + taxi Money.
Hate to send away a girl empty handed + I wanted 2 keep an friendly contact just in case the girl was working 4 an agency. This way I keep bridges open with them 4 future contacts.
Anyone here used Kiev Post (Freely Availabe in the Lobby of Upmarket Hotels) , or was it just me who tried it?Yep, I tried it too, a few times. Had 2 dates, and about 5 escorts from there, I remember them being $50 / hour.
My Russian was non existent then, and neither "date" was gorgeous, but one was good enough to take out a second time and get her in the sack, whereupon I got sidetracked by another girl. There used to be numerous escort ads and all actually one of two agencies I was told. I remember being quite pleased at the ease / reliability of the order, and also 2 of three three I paid for were good looking, other average, but I was too inexperienced to send her away with just taxi fare.
Sadly Jojosun, Uke Boy was, and still is right. Kyiv Post was taken over by a British Pakistani I believe, and all personals were banned, probably see. 2007.
I do still occasionally read it when over, and I have wondered whether the occasional "translation" advert may be a front, but never tried, and never found anyone who has tried either. Much easier to stick to what we know, Mamba, topmodals, vKontakte, cafes, nightclubs etc.
Member #4274
10-17-11, 23:47
Anyone had success in meeting women on travelgirls?
I'm registered & curious on others take.I had a lot of success with it when I was in Minsk. I got a lot of numbers and couldn't meet them all in Minsk. There were a few women who were escorts but not many. Openly, anyway. I guess it depends upon what you are looking for. I still speak with a number of women in Kiev but most are good girls looking for a serious relationship.
Of course Regina is the very slim dark hair girl. She has a small face with black eyes. There is another very slim black hair girl called Alessia or something like this. She is even worse than Regina! Regina is an exemple of the type of girls I talked about, acting like real prostitutes.
I might also know who Alessia is. Does she speak good English? If not, I know exactly who she is. I asked her if she kisses in bed, and she said no. I said no kisses, no $300. So I didn't take her out.
And why did you let Maya go?
I had a lot of success with it when I was in Minsk. I got a lot of numbers and couldn't meet them all in Minsk. There were a few women who were escorts but not many. Openly, anyway. I guess it depends upon what you are looking for. I still speak with a number of women in Kiev but most are good girls looking for a serious relationship.First time I hear about this site. Browsed it, seems rather good, but I am still dubitative about becoming a paying member. You have obviously upgraded if you got contacts. What is answer ratio? 180€ for six months isn't too costly if the answer ratio is high.
CallSign Papa
10-18-11, 10:52
Had a lovely (if too brief) sojourn to Kiev. Arrived Tuesday and left Thursday.
Already had some hookups arranged with some past conquests (both P4P and Freebie). Arrived at my apartment Tuesday midday having breezed through customs and found the only taxi driver willing to go for less than 250 grv.
Did a quick stock up of provisions and took a customary stroll down an unseasonably warm Kreshatyk. I see the girls haven't quite traded in their strappy shoes for knee high boots and I'm still not sure which I prefer. Back to the apartment and Marina arrived on time to my surprise. I had previously met her in DLux, she's from Odessa, slim, blonde, and definitely more beautiful when she isn't trying to obscure her face with a Trabant load of makeup.
In DLux she had asked for $500, I'd laughed, we'd settled on $250 but that she would leave sometime the next afternoon. Seemed fair and we were actually getting on like a house on fire. I was sure that was going to change as soon as her clothes came off but I was completely wrong. God bless Ukrainian "Champage and Caviar". She left in the morning, but by then I had nothing left to give.
This time around she was due to come for two hours for $150 (which was a bargain). She told me she's not with an agency, but her and a few of her friends go to the same clubs and generally look out for one another. I asked if she had security, for when a date went bad, her ex husband is militisa, I guess that's all the security you need! She eventually left at 7 which gave me little time to prepare to meet Natasha, my freebie.
Not sure why I bothered rushing, she was 40 minutes late and stayed with me until I left on Thursday, didn't see much more of the city after that!
Will try and head back in a few weeks before winter sets in properly. Would like to try and grab a beer with some of the Kiev forum regulars next time. Is that Superbowl Party still happening each year?
Anyone had success in meeting women on travelgirls?
I'm registered & curious on others take.I also. Many hot girls, but I wonder if the profiles are legit.
I spend too much time in Rio and I tried many many girls there and I talked with almost all the girls. I think that today Rio is not the best option in Kiev but it attracts specially tourists or people who are unable to meet girls in Kiev or on internet. I really think that today most of the girls in Rio act like old professionnal prostitutes. If you are ready to pay 300$ for 3 hours, I think you can stay home because almost everywhere you can find girls for this price.
I had fun with almost all the girls I tried before they become professionnal EXCEPT with Maya (I let her go after 40 mIn) , Regina (not friendly at all) and Anastesia (dose not like sex but a great dancer).Is Anastesia the same as Anastasia? A young brunette, who moves like crazy in stage, tight body and ass. If that's it, I'm surprised by what you said because she's the best girl from Rio that I tried.
As for girls refusing DATY, LOL. Very few have ever said no that. Trick is very simple, if she says she doesn't want it or put her hands in the way, just say nothing or say "that's ok" and go down on her gently. Then spend some time licking the inner thigh, switch to the other, and play around the area. After 5-10min of "play", she gets so aroused that no woman will ever resist when you remove their hands from their pussy. I had to do this w almost half of the girls from Rio. Easy and effective.
Member #4274
10-18-11, 18:26
First time I hear about this site. Browsed it, seems rather good, but I am still dubitative about becoming a paying member. You have obviously upgraded if you got contacts. What is answer ratio? 180€ for six months isn't too costly if the answer ratio is high.Prosal, in my situation the answer ratio was very good. That doesn't mean all the profiles were real, but I spoke with a lot of women and had little problem getting them on facebook and getting their mobile numbers. However, as you surely know, much of it depends on your profile and how you correspond with these women. If you are only going to their city for a four day weekend, my opinion is Travelgirls is not worth your money. There are a few women in Minsk, Kiev and SPB who are offering straight up sex for money but in my opinion they are not attractive enough to purchase the expensive membership. I think there was one woman in Kiev and another in SPB who convinced me they were real and were absolute beauties who were offering sex for money. That was all. In this situation Mumba, or what ever it is called, would be a better option.
In my situation, where I was going to Minsk for a full month, I had women who were real messaging me first. I was on TG for two months and spoke with a lot of women. In the end I decided on ten to twelve numbers and when I got to Minsk I chose who I thought the four most appealing were. I was looking to meet a hot, young student to support while I was there in exchange for a regular GF experience and to show me around Minsk. Of course I did not say this outright to them but I think it was understood. It was really a perfect arrangement for me and her. She got to eat at cafes and buy clothes she could normally not afford and I got regular sex with a beautfiul, sexy 21-year old plus thanks to her I went to places in the city I would not have discovered without her.
For me the site was ideal and I will use it again when I go to Minsk in April.
I also. Many hot girls, but I wonder if the profiles are legit.Agreed. I feel it's a mix of legit & site sponsored leading.
Similar to the marriage websites, where you pay stupid money to send messages back & forth. This for some part is just a little different, possibly the employees create skype addresses msn trade emails whatever. As an extention to the site to breed a feeling of authenticity.
Of course I think its both legit & lead. No doubt individuals will log on for their personal goals.
One 18 year old was requesting I pay $1500 a day for her company. This was after a while of chat & her interest in meeting. Then the $$$ request. My answer to put it short no. Then it's take care.
Another woman I'm now on Skype with here's the conversation thats taken place, more chat has happened on travelgirls before & inbetween this convo.
Hello, Dasha =)
[10/16/2011 2:18:05 AM] Travel girls: Hi!
[10/16/2011 2:18:43 AM] me: Okay we'll talk tomorrow. Now it's time for bed, I'm very tired.
[10/16/2011 2:18:57 AM] me: We will video call tomorrow.
[10/16/2011 2:19:08 AM] me: Good night madame.
[10/16/2011 2:19:16 AM] Travel girls: you dicede all?
[10/16/2011 2:19:44 AM] Travel girls: okey.
[10/16/2011 2:19:50 AM] Travel girls: see you tommorow.
[10/16/2011 2:19:58 AM] me: Sweet dreams.
[10/16/2011 9:51:08 AM] me: Hi. Dasha.
[10/16/2011 9:51:31 AM] me: You are not online right now, I have to go out.
[10/16/2011 9:52:50 AM] me: Let me know how many days you want to visit? 3-4 days?
[10/16/2011 9:53:56 AM] me: Also the cost for transport?
[10/16/2011 9:54:57 AM] me: Would you like to come thurs or fri this week?
[10/16/2011 3:13:25 PM] Dasha Travel girls: Hi!
[10/16/2011 3:13:53 PM] Dasha Travel girls: U plan with out me.
[10/16/2011 3:14:28 PM] Dasha Travel girls:.
[10/16/2011 3:14:44 PM] Dasha Travel girls: I live in another city.
[10/16/2011 9:12:20 PM] me:. So you not coming.
[10/16/2011 9:12:29 PM] me: Brrr.
[10/17/2011 9:18:08 AM] Dasha Travel girls:?
[10/17/2011 9:19:14 AM] me: You say you come. Then not. Then yes then no.
[10/17/2011 9:19:24 AM] me: What are you doing?
[10/17/2011 9:19:32 AM] Dasha Travel girls: hm.
[10/17/2011 9:19:39 AM] Dasha Travel girls: you are strange.
[10/17/2011 9:20:06 AM] me: Thank you.
[10/17/2011 9:20:22 AM] Dasha Travel girls: do you know what mean guest?
[10/17/2011 9:20:43 AM] me: Yes.
[10/17/2011 9:21:21 AM] me: Do you have time video call now?
[10/17/2011 9:27:28 AM] me: Good luck Dasha.
[10/17/2011 9:27:41 AM] Dasha Travel girls: what.
[10/17/2011 9:27:45 AM] Dasha Travel girls:?
[10/17/2011 9:28:17 AM] Dasha Travel girls: I don't understand nothing.
[10/17/2011 9:28:32 AM] me: I'm going out.
[10/17/2011 9:28:44 AM] Dasha Travel girls: okey.
[10/17/2011 9:29:20 AM] Dasha Travel girls: have a good day!
[10/17/2011 9:29:53 AM] Dasha Travel girls:.
[10/17/2011 11:04:36 AM] Dasha Travel girls: Hi! I can be in Kiev for one-two day because in my city I have work, dance clasess and some deals! Do you understand why I cann't be for a week? And I don't know you well.
[10/17/2011 11:50:17 AM] me: Yes I think you right. 2 days is better. So lets plan for next week 24th of October Monday next week? Can you come for 2 days then?
[10/17/2011 11:51:43 AM] Dasha Travel girls: till what month you will be in Kiev?
[10/17/2011 11:52:18 AM] me: I'm here for another 6 weeks & I come back in summer for 3 months.
[10/17/2011 11:52:30 AM] me: Maybe I come to learn Russian for a year.
[10/17/2011 11:53:05 AM] Dasha Travel girls: till December?
[10/17/2011 11:53:20 AM] me: Yes.
[10/17/2011 11:53:29 AM] Dasha Travel girls: okey.
[10/17/2011 11:53:41 AM] Dasha Travel girls: we have a time to meet.
[10/17/2011 11:53:45 AM] Dasha Travel girls: then.
[10/17/2011 11:53:48 AM] Dasha Travel girls: one day.
[10/17/2011 11:53:52 AM] Dasha Travel girls:.
[10/17/2011 11:54:23 AM] me: Monday next week? What you think.
[10/17/2011 11:54:37 AM] Dasha Travel girls: Monday not good.
[10/17/2011 11:54:49 AM] me: What days are good for you.
[10/17/2011 11:55:11 AM] Dasha Travel girls: wed thusday meybe sanday.
[10/17/2011 11:55:43 AM] Dasha Travel girls: U work in Kiev?
[10/17/2011 11:55:46 AM] me: easy come wed & thurs day then.
[10/17/2011 11:55:53 AM] me: next week.
[10/17/2011 11:55:58 AM] Dasha Travel girls:.
[10/17/2011 11:56:13 AM] me: No work in Kiev.
[10/17/2011 11:56:24 AM] me: can work on computer.
[10/17/2011 11:56:25 AM] Dasha Travel girls: what are you doing then?
[10/17/2011 11:56:32 AM] Dasha Travel girls: okey.
[10/17/2011 11:57:02 AM] Dasha Travel girls: next wed I meet my old friend.
[10/17/2011 11:57:41 AM] me: Well you let me know when you think to come. & I will tell you if its okay.
[10/17/2011 11:57:50 AM] me: I have thinks to do now.
[10/17/2011 11:58:01 AM] me: Bye bye.
[10/17/2011 11:58:06 AM] Dasha Travel girls: what?
[10/17/2011 11:58:12 AM] Dasha Travel girls:?
[10/17/2011 11:58:25 AM] me: I am meeting someone at 3.
[10/17/2011 11:58:43 AM] Dasha Travel girls:?
[10/17/2011 11:58:48 AM] me: When you want to come visit. Let me know.
[10/17/2011 11:58:57 AM] Dasha Travel girls: okey.
[10/17/2011 12:00:35 PM] Dasha Travel girls: what will do? Learn english?
[10/17/2011 12:00:43 PM] Dasha Travel girls: sorry Russian.
[10/17/2011 12:49:48 PM] me: We'll see when the time comes.
[10/17/2011 12:51:39 PM] Dasha Travel girls:?
[10/17/2011 12:53:32 PM] me:?
[10/17/2011 12:53:52 PM] me: \o/
[10/17/2011 12:54:02 PM] Me: :*
[10/17/2011 12:55:20 PM] Dasha Travel girls: you are happy?
[10/17/2011 2:23:29 PM] Me: yes.
[10/17/2011 5:13:11 PM] Dasha Travel girls: what?
[10/17/2011 6:58:06 PM] Me: I want to drink champagne & make love to you.
[10/17/2011 8:53:30 PM] Dasha Travel girls: :O
Toptraveler1
10-18-11, 22:18
Is Anastesia the same as Anastasia? A young brunette, who moves like crazy in stage, tight body and ass. If that's it, I'm surprised by what you said because she's the best girl from Rio that I tried.
As for girls refusing DATY, LOL. Very few have ever said no that. Trick is very simple, if she says she doesn't want it or put her hands in the way, just say nothing or say "that's ok" and go down on her gently. Then spend some time licking the inner thigh, switch to the other, and play around the area. After 5-10min of "play", she gets so aroused that no woman will ever resist when you remove their hands from their pussy. I had to do this w almost half of the girls from Rio. Easy and effective.Yes, It is the same girl. I don't know but this girl was very friendly to me but scared about sex. I can not tell you why but she told me she does not go often with clients for sex. But I don't know what is the meaning of "often" for her. She also told me she does not like big penis!
Another one who dances like crazy is Daniella. I also tried her few days after she arrived to Rio.
Had a good time with an escort tonight.
She has a great body, tall, nice tits, and nice ass, friendly.
Got her number, she is a student at an institute, she said she has friends who do this work.
I think I will call her tomorrow, I will ask her to set me up with her best looking friends, for every girl she sets me up with I will giver her $50 and I will give her girlfriends $100 per hour.
But her girlfriend must first send me her photos to see if I liker her or not.
Never know but it may save me great time going to clubs and look for girls, this way they come to me.
I'm very selective, to pay a girl for sex she must be under 24, very good looking. 8.5 or higher, the younger the better.
Just a question for some of you guys if you don't mind, why some of you are so interested in doing DATY on prostitutes?
MY MAMA STRATEGY-
I have made a profile.
I have posted 2 nice photos of myself in my profile and my age.
TIME is important for me, I am here for only 7 days.
If they have a high reply rate meaning their reply rate is green color I won't contact.
If they have low replay rate I will contact.
I only contact student type girls. 24 years old or under.
I have no problem paying what they ask for.
If things go well I ask them to email 3 more photos of themselves, it hepls getting rid of the ones with fake photos.
Will see how things go
Had a good time with an escort tonight.
She has a great body, tall, nice tits, and nice ass, friendly.
Got her number, she is a student at an institute, she said she has friends who do this work.
I think I will call her tomorrow, I will ask her to set me up with her best looking friends, for every girl she sets me up with I will giver her $50 and I will give her girlfriends $100 per hour.
But her girlfriend must first send me her photos to see if I liker her or not.
Never know but it may save me great time going to clubs and look for girls, this way they come to me.
I'm very selective, to pay a girl for sex she must be under 24, very good looking. 8.5 or higher, the younger the better.
Just a question for some of you guys if you don't mind, why some of you are so interested in doing DATY on prostitutes?$50 to set me up. Members start messaging =)
I had to check the abbreviations DATY, I'm a noob. Well for my guess besides personal interest of a fellow ISG member. I'd say that half the working girls I've met here are pretty cool.
In place of a rare occassion else be, plus a good hygiene. Tonight I would of been happy to DATY the lady I was with. Next time I see her I think I will, because she's a good girl.)
arriving in kiev on october 10 on the heels of my sexcapades in london (see previous post) , i was anxious to see if i would top those experiences in the arms of some superlative kiev beauties. so, although quite exhausted from not sleeping sunday night in london, or the night before during my flight to london, i was anxious to get over to rio after i settled in to my apartment.
on the basis of my visits to rio during the week of october 10 – 15, i can say that the club still rocks, and the hotties are there in good number. the lesser showing of real hotties reflected in posts by others during august, and in the first weekend of september when i visited, was probably due to that period being a vacation time for the best looking girls. at the time of this visit in mid october, no such problem was evident, and there were plenty of gorgeous girls at rio for me to contemplate.
the following are some of the 8's. 9's and 10's that i took note of. to even be mentioned in this list, a girl had to be what i felt would unanimously be considered at least an 8 by a large majority of men. i have learned through exchanges with others on this board, that beauty is truly in the eyes of the beholder, and one guy's 9 or 10, could be another guy's 8, and vice versa. so it is impossible to be precise in this matter, and it is pointless to quibble about the exact rating of a particular girl, since opinions will necessarily differ within a degree or two. therefore, the best i can do is to write with the majority view in mind. i have only noted girls who i thought the majority of guys would agree are either 8's. 9's or 10's in rating. (i am aware that there are a small minority of individuals at either end of the spectrum whose tastes and views depart from the mean significantly, and such fellows are usually aware that their standards are different than most other guys' standards. therefore they should factor in the difference between their own views and the views of the majority of other guys, in evaluating how what i report would pertain to them.).
monday, october 10.
monday night at rio, downstairs, i spotted a girl named leela who has got to have one of the hottest bodies at the club, an uber—sexy brunette, with all the right curves and a model pretty face to boot. i couldn't get to her as she was busy with another customer, but she was placed on my mental to do list, at the top, since the manager told me she sometimes (1 out of 10 times asked) will go out with a customer.
another quite exquisite creature was alla, a truly gorgeous blonde, whom the manager informed me was a dancer only, and did not do take out.
another beautiful girl worth mentioning was ira, who does go out, and knows a little english. marta was there, a good looking girl with black hair, but her tone had been curt with me last time when she told me she was busy, so i didn't bother with her or try to charm her again, since there were so many others to consider who were more friendly to me.
ada was there, a very cute brunette with a great body, whom i have been with many times before, but she claimed to have her period. i didn't believe her, since i know this is a bullshit excuse the girls use sometimes, but i made a date with her for thursday nite after her 'period' would ostensibly be over. (i then proceeded to take out three other girls on each of the intervening three nights that week, which ada saw, so that by thursday night when i asked her out, she said 'sorry, i'm busy. ' i figured it was either because the honeymoon was over and she never intended to go out from the beginning, or because she was pissed at me for taking the other girls on the intervening nights. she is like that, because even in the past, i had to go through a whole process of warming her up, and telling her how she was special to me, blah blah blah, in order to get her mood happy and smiling, before she would go out. anyway, i asked ada out thursday, because i said i would, and i always keep my word. but being brushed off by ada on thursday night, made it possible for me to take out another more beautiful and wonderful girl, katya, about which see below.)
then i asked the manager to bring down lera, the girl i had finally nailed last trip after two nights of trying (see prior posts) since i heard she was working upstairs. lera came and she looked gorgeous, a very pretty blond with a great body, but no english. the bottom line here is that after promising sex, i took lera home as my date monday night, but she ultimately left at 5am without having sex, after having fallen asleep for most of the night due to sheer exhaustion from the ridiculously taxing schedule that many of these girls pursue. they work a whole night at rio and attend university the whole day, and try to catch a little bit of sleep in between, a schedule which takes its toll after a few days and adds up to a state of deep exhaustion that is visible on their faces. in fact, this night, lera had actually asked me to take her to my apartment so that she could sleep, because she was very exhausted. i explained to her that such a thing was not possible for me to do because i still would have to pay the $300. she came back with a very hurt look (did i mention she is a professional actress working in theater) and said, 'you would not help me? i see now that you only want me for sex. ' and she delivered a pouting sad expression as she said this. fortunately for me, or unfortunately perhaps, i have some significant experience in this area, notably with my ex, a 'master manipulator' far more notorious than young lera. so her manipulation attempt was recognized for what it was. i explained to her again that it wasn't possible for me to pay $300 for her to sleep, and friends don't ask such things of friends who are not made of money. i told her she could come home with me on a night that she felt well enough for sex. ultimately, she smiled and said that she felt well enough for sex this night and promised it. so i took lera home.
we had been having a nice time together, but i made the mistake of not hurrying her into the shower right after we arrived at my apartment, to nail her right at the beginning. instead, since we had the whole night ahead of us, i followed my usual routine to have some normal date time breaking the ice before proceeding to the sex. this was a colossal mistake, and i should have been alert to the issue of her exhaustion, especially since initially she had actually had the nerve to ask me to take her home just so she could sleep.
so we had something to eat together, and then something to drink, and then we were sitting on the couch together. in my desire to help her learn english, i was having her listen to the free lesson from pimsleur. com on english as a second language for russian speakers, so i could communicate better with her, and she was listening to the lesson and responding with the required responses in english, while she lay on the couch with her head in my lap, as i was caressing her head and hair.
you guys with a little common sense already know what happened next! put together great exhaustion, a nice meal, some alcohol to drink, a boring language recording, and being stroked on the head softly while you are laying down on a comfortable couch, and what do you get? of course, she fell asleep. what a shmuck i was! i did this to myself. i retell my folly here, for the benefit of you guys, who i hope will realize that the 'exhaustion factor' can only be ignored with these girls at your own peril!
words to the wise are, you should not put off the sex until after drinking or going out dancing or whatever, but should have the sex sooner in the flow of things, rather than later.
so what was i to do with the mess i had created? i decided to take her to bed with the idea that she would sleep for an hour or two, then i would get her up and send her to take a shower, and then we would have sex.
but in the end, she was like a log that i could not budge in the bed. i couldn't get her cooperation to get up and shower. she finally roused herself awake at 4:30am because her phone alarm went off, and something powerful overrode her exhaustion and got her to visibly rouse herself awake. i'm sure it wasn't the prospect of sex with me, however. then in her rushing to get ready, she refused sex and dressed hurriedly and left shortly before 5am. i wondered about her not making any effort for sex at the end even though she had promised, and how she only got up when her phone alarm rang in time to get back to club by closing time at 5am (which i assumed was to get money).
i blame lera for what happened, since she had no compunctions about failing to live up to her promises, and she is clearly a 'user' who will take advantage. she is an actress, and cannot be relied upon to tell the truth or to keep her word and deliver on any promises she makes. i like her too much to complain to the management about her, but i would forewarn others on this forum who may choose to deal with her because of her good looks, that it is more than probable you will not receive any services from her at all, if you choose to take her out.
but i also blame myself for the poor strategy monday night in allowing things to drag on with an obviously exhausted girl, and not pushing the sex up to the front of the date, when she was still fresh and excited.
so monday night in kiev with lera ended up being a no sex night. however, because i had a lot of sex with two different girls the previous night in london (see prior post) , it was only the waste of the $300 that peeved me, since i really needed the rest.
tuesday, october 11.
i basically slept most of the day on tuesday, and only got up at 4pm to meet with one of the girls i corresponded with from the www.travelgirls.com website. for the most part, my opinion is that for mongering in kiev, the travelgirls. com website is a waste of time, and not worth the exhorbitant monthly membership costs. none of the girl contacts in ukraine who responded were serious. the one girl i met with had asked me to purchase two dresses for her online while in the states, which she would pay me for when i arrived. she came to pick up her two dresses. she was a nice girl, not great looking, perhaps between a 6 – 7, and certainly no sextrovert. she came off as a nice momma's girl, very conservative, but she paid for the dresses as promised, and even brought a box of chocolates when she came (she said her mother told her to bring them). i thought it was a nice touch. but i didn't have much time to wine and dine her, just to 'maybe' get into her pants, and more importantly i didn't have a great desire to spend the time to do so, as she didn't compare to the hotties i wanted to get to at rio. so i said goodnight, pecked her on the cheek after two hours of chatting in my living room, and sent her off. then it was almost time to go to rio, so i had a quick dinner, got spiffed up and walked in the brisk kiev air up the hill to rio.
www.vodkaescort.com appears to be out of business, or something, as they never responded by email or to calls and text messages.
i had also hoped to meet zarina from gia—escort. com (the only one i found appealing enough from their line up) , but in the end during this week, and i had no energy, or time for her, or any of my mamba. ru contacts, or for that matter, even my regulars from top—modals. com, as i was happy with the all—nighters with the rio girls i chose (with the exception of lera who cheated me on monday night).
i arrived at rio on tuesday at about 9pm and decided to sit upstairs. i immediately became enchanted with a girl named maya, who had the most wonderfully shaped ass, and knew how to move it. she gave a very hot private dance. she also told me that she likes girls, and that the hottie on stage, a girl named, nina, very pretty brunette, with a sexy, slender body, was her lover and favorite girlfriend. she also said that she had been with rosa, one of my all time favorites, an extremely pretty girl, who had found a boyfriend and stopped working at rio last year. i really liked maya, and her cute personality, and so even though she wasn't more than an 8, i knew she would be a fantastic session. and so tuesday night, i left rio early, because it was maya's fate to experience all of my pent up passions and expertises, and lets just say this petite little girl left my apartment with multiple smiles on her face__lol.
i also noticed the very pretty black haired beauty, tamara, who speaks english quite well. later i had ventured into the vip upstairs for a while, and saw there two girls really worth mentioning, a really beautiful blonde, with a perfect face and body, named renata, and a black—haired hardbody, with an awesomely muscled stomach and gorgeously shaped body and ass, named tory. these girls were both placed at the top of my to do list.
wednesday, october 12.
wednesday i also slept late and just relaxed until it was time to head out in the evening. i walked to rio and decided to begin in the vip room upstairs. i saw elsa, a very cute blond with a nice body shape and ass, pretty face and long, luxurious, shining golden blonde hair. she was an awesome looking girl, and i was smitten. she was truly giving and wonderfrul in bed, and she appreciated my efforts multiple times. it was a very good session with her, and she is definitely on my repeat list. i brought her back to club after three hours, and sat in the vip again. i took note of layla a very pretty blonde with a gorgeous body. i saw yana there, a very good looking blonde, who i had heard good things about in the past from others on this board. i took tory, the black haired sex goddess, for a private dance and promised her a date on another night, and went home after 5am closing.
thursday, october 13.
i sat upstairs thursday, and took note of a gorgeous blonde named margo, with perfect curves and a gorgeous body, and very cute face too. ada had said she was busy, as i mentioned above. then i saw katya, a truly beautiful brunette, with a gorgeous sexy body. katya was the bond girl i had dreamed about ever since i first met her in the vip room during my trip at the beginning of september. she was the one who had said no to daty, when i playfully brought it up during a private dance, and only agreed to it if i would use protection during daty (of a split open condom. see prior post). katya is a girl with a very sweet personality, beautiful flowing silky brown hair, fresh faced like a cover girl, whose gorgeous body was so stimulating to me that i couldn't wait to get between her legs and kiss her delights, even if it had to be with protection. i utilized the procedure i outlined in a prior post for using protection while successfully performing daty to bring about a delightful orgasm in the girl. the sex was great, even though the bj was covered.
we thoroughly enjoyed each other, and we agreed to meet again friday night, and i would pick her up at the club soon after they opened when i arrived there around 8:30 or 9pm.
when katya was ready to leave after more than the three hours it was already around 3am, i was going to go back to the club with her. but then she started insisting that i not go back to the club with her, and that i stay home and sleep. i assured her that i was only going so i could sit with her and maybe give her some more private dances. but she was insistent that i stay home and not go. i thought it was cute that she was being possessive and didn't want me to go back to club and possibly take interest in another girl. so i agreed, and didn't accompany her.
friday, october 14.
as agreed with katya, on thursday night, i arrived at the club at around 9pm, and passed her on the stage upstairs, telling her to join me in the vip after she finished her dances on stage. she asked why i was going to sit in the vip. i told her because i prefer it. i saw tory, the sexy hardbody with the long black hair. something about her really makes my motor run. but soon enough katya came to sit with me. we had a drink together and discussed our plans, and then off we went again, for a delightful evening, in which katya stayed until 5am, for which this time i gave her extra.
saturday, october 15.
katya had told me that she was going to be out with her girlfriend on saturday night and wouldn't be in the club until around 11pm or midnight. i arrived at the club early at around 9pm, but downstairs was closed due to water damage. and there were apparently many girls out sick. so the few that were in the club, had to carry the burden of the dances on stage. therefore when i finally got a hold of margo, and had a private dance with her which was great, and asked her out, she told me that none of the girls could leave, and they were doing dances only, due to there being not enough girls in the club that night. i also spotted a brunette hottie named julia who had great potential. the manager of the vip (slava) told me that indeed because they were short—handed with so many girls out sick (?) it was dances only tonight at rio, but that they would take me over to their sister club, paradise, in the club's taxi at no charge, to which i agreed. it was about a 25 minute ride, but i was very glad i went. as i saw a number of great girls there.
anita, an awesome blonde with a very pretty, sexy face and great body, caught my attention immediately. then there was sanna, a brunette with a cute face, but with the most incredibly sexy body. i made a mental note to select her, because i truly liked the way she moved her very cute little body as she danced, but i still wanted to see the rest of the line—up. then out came sofia on stage, a very pretty blonde with a gorgeous body. now i was torn. another very pretty faced blonde came on stage, siliana, who had a very tight body and perfect curves, and was an excellent dancer, but she was more petite and had no tits to speak of, so she was not in the same league as the previously mentioned two girls, sanna and sofia, even though her face was prettier. then came anastacia, with long black hair, and a skinny, tall sexy body, but slender and not as curvy, a very energetic and good pole dancer. last to mention is snezhana, a tall modelesque sexy brunette with nice curves, an elegant girl, with sultry good looks. i asked the manager for sanna, deciding i wanted the perfect body tonight, but alas, he came back saying that she had gone out (that someone must have called her).
so for saturday night i selected sofia, and ultimately was very glad i did, because we had the most wonderful time together. i truly enjoyed looking at her really pretty face as we had sex and loved how pleased she was with my expertise at daty. there's nothing as satisfying to me as producing an expression of smiling flush—faced awe on the face of a young pretty girl after she has had one or two orgasms, who apparently never experienced that level of oral sex before, except perhaps entering her while she is still in the throes of her last orgasm, in order to pound her into even higher levels of ecstasy and hear her moans in my ear.
well, that was the last girl in kiev, until i can return there next sunday for two more nights. laying in sofia's arms, i of course told her i want to see her again. but i also want to catch up with sanna and her sexy ass, and what about leela, and margo, and katya, and snezhana etc. damn, there's too many really hot girls i want to fuck in that fucking town, i don't know what to do, as i will have only two nights there next time. such problems__lol.
beginner's guide to preliminaries and getting things ready:
i've never commented on these aspects before, but it occurs to me that some guys might benefit from some suggestions / ideas in this area.
vitamins: the over the counter price for cialis 20mg at home in usa is around $22 / tablet. by comparison the price at the local pharmacy in kiev was $16 / tablet in a 4 tablet pack, easily available without a prescription. this was for tablets in original lilly pharmaceuticals packaging, sealed, and with manufacture and expiration stampings. so the kiev price was about the same as i got for similarly packaged tablets in san jose, costa rica. i also saw a healthy supply there of all the other vitamins as well. look for a pharmacy in kiev by looking for a sign which reads '&1040; &1055; &1058; &1045; &1050; &1040; ' (pronounced 'op-tye-kah'). the only letter in this word you might not be familiar with is the second letter, '&1055; ', which has the sound of the english letter 'p', not so hard to remember because most of us should still be familiar with the similar greek letter used as the symbol for 'pi' since the days of our high school geometry class.
by, the way, you should be studying how to read the cyrillic alphabet long before you arrive in kiev, as the street signs and everything else is written only in russian. kiev is not bi-lingual, and the street and road signs are only in russian. you should at least know enough to be able to read the street signs, or a map, in order to be able to find your way back to your apartment, should you venture out for a walk.
phone: telephone services are very inexpensive in kiev, so you should have with you an unlocked global phone into which you can put a sim card from the local telephone companies providing pre-paid services, such as kievstar or mtc. there are machines for topping up your minutes all over the city (in the beginning you will probably need someone to show you how to use it to top up, because all the touch screens are written in russian) , but even before that you need a sim card and to be sure your phone is working. many of the downtown streets are crossed by pedestrians by going down the steps near the corner and crossing through the passageways that are constructed underneath the streets and intersections. these passageways have many kiosks and stores. you can buy a sim card at many kiosks all over the downtown area, especially in the underground street crossing passages. but if you're not a technically skilled person, and would like to go into an actual kievstar or mtc store where you can get assistance, and make sure everything is set up and working properly, and get information about rates, and inquire about a data plan or package, etc. i saw a kievstar store on bogdana khmeilnitskoho street just at the corner of its intersection with khreshatik, as well as an mtc store a little further up bogdana khmeilnitskoho street.
you will surely come to know bogdana khmeilnitskoho street pretty well during your stay, as it is the street on which rio strip club is located, a little further up, just past the beautiful, big opera house.
google is your friend in kiev. study the downtown streets on google maps to familiarize yourself with them, and learn where your apartment or hotel is located in relation to khreshatik and the points of interest to you, like rio, arena, buddha bar, d'lux, etc, and to get a good feel for the downtown area of the city.
google translate is really your friend in kiev, because it can help you succeed with the many very hot girls who don't speak english, whether on the street, or in rio strip club. you should get google translate properly installed into your browser so that web pages in russian are automatically translated into english. this is invaluable in communicating with girls on the mamba. ru website. in my apartment, on my laptop on google translate, i can also reverse the direction of the translation, and bring up the digital russian keyboard, for the girl to type her messages back to me, and a sort of conversation can take place. but even when i am out and about, or in a club, when i have a data plan with internet access on my phone, i have used google translate on my mobile phone to communicate with the girls enough so that i can succeed in bringing home the real hottie that doesn't speak much english.
drinks / food: shopping for supplies for your apartment can be done, for example, at the very nice supermarket located in the downstairs of the mall building at basseina 4, referred to as the mandarin building, (i think arena is on the other side of the building, as i saw signs referring to it in the building's parking garage on the lower level (which can be entered from basseina). there is an entrance into the supermarket directly from the parking garage. this makes it convenient to go to / from the supermarket with your bundles directly into a taxi which can pick you up, or wait for you in this parking garage. this supermarket has many high end items, including a very nicely stocked liquor section. there is also another very large supermarket called mega-market for daytime shopping, which any taxi driver should know. so at the beginning of my stay, i usually stock up with the heavy items needed, such as bottles of still and carbonated water, various cartons of juices, and hard liquor drinks, as needed, and paper towels and food and other items needed.
i have found that the devushkas arriving to my apartment from rio, or wherever, are invariably hungry girls since they haven't had a chance to eat a proper dinner yet due to their tight schedules, and so salad vegetables, meats, cheeses, breads and chocolates, as well as bailey's (their drink of choice) have become part of my shopping list.
if you have no idea what a girl might want to eat, and don't want to be wasteful, you can simply buy what you need for yourself, and wait on shopping for food for the girl of your dreams, until you leave rio or buddha bar with her on your arms, and then take her to an all-night supermarket to choose what she wants (the girl or taxi driver should know where one is located) , although that wastes some of the time you booked with her. (i bought a bottle of high end vodka which none of the girls would touch. the vaunted vodka-drinking ukrainian, is apparently only the ukrainian man, and not the 20 year old ukrainian girl from rio, who definitely prefers something sweet, like baileys irish cream. only one girl went for one of the beers i had bought (a corona) at the supermarket). chocolates are a big deal for these young girls, so i usually pick up some good items in the duty free at the airport, like the bag of mixed assortment of miniature toblerone bars, or the box of guylian sea horse shaped chocolates, which were a big hit with the girls.
or you can simply ignore this whole time—wasting thing of feeding the girl (they are all hungry and appreciate it, but, hey, they're on a job and can eat later) , and try to send her off to the showers soon after your arrival at your apartment, so that you can get down to the sex business uppermost on your mind. but i would recommend at least having on hand something nice to offer her to drink, and / or some chocolates.
now that you are all set up, you are ready to seek companionship and host the lucky girl properly. lol.
happy hunting.
lj
Member #4274
10-19-11, 23:41
Adding to my reply to Prosal about my experiences using Travelgirls (TG) website. If someone is the type of Monger who only goes to a city for a very short period of time (a week or less) and is more interested in sex with strippers then TG is not for you. It was mentioned that the girls on the site are not serious and I guess it depends upon what you consider to be serious. If you believe not wanting to exchange sex for money on the spot makes them less serious then it would not surprise me that someone would not care for the site. There are girls on TG who offer that but not many. However, if you are looking for an attractive, young studentka who can speak English and is not having sex with 4 or 5 different guys every week then it is a useful tool. I have been to Rio and the girls are attractive there but I have never enjoyed the idea of being with a woman who fucked four others guys that week. No thanks. I don't care how hot she is. I prefer a GF experience and a friendship rather than 'Hello, how are you? Here's 200 USD now bend over, please. Thank you! ' But it does take time and effort to do this and I realize not everyone can take a three or four week trip, I guess. But even when I went to River Palace (RP) I always would pick a girl who I could talk to and want to see again in the future even if just for dinner. These girls would rarely be seen at RP and would only go when they were etremely hard up for cash and they too were selective about who they went home with.
As for me, I can honestly say I spoke to girls from Ukraine, Russia and Belarus who seemed serious. In Minsk I met four or five and I would say at least three came across very serious. Even if they seem not entirely serious, making a new friend or two in a new or foreign city can be a very useful tool and should not be readily discarded. You never know what they can show you or who they will introduce you to if you give them an opportunity. Again, I suppose it all depends upon what you are looking for. Slavic women are not stupid and if they get negative or suspicious vibrations from you they quickly turn cold and that can be interpreted as them not being serious.
However, this is just my opinion based on my preferences and experiences.
Adding to my reply to Prosal about my experiences using Travelgirls (TG) website. If someone is the type of Monger who only goes to a city for a very short period of time (a week or less) and is more interested in sex with strippers then TG is not for you. It was mentioned that the girls on the site are not serious and I guess it depends upon what you consider to be serious. If you believe not wanting to exchange sex for money on the spot makes them less serious then it would not surprise me that someone would not care for the site. There are girls on TG who offer that but not many. However, if you are looking for an attractive, young studentka who can speak English and is not having sex with 4 or 5 different guys every week then it is a useful tool. I have been to Rio and the girls are attractive there but I have never enjoyed the idea of being with a woman who fucked four others guys that week. No thanks. I don't care how hot she is. I prefer a GF experience and a friendship rather than 'Hello, how are you? Here's 200 USD now bend over, please. Thank you! ' But it does take time and effort to do this and I realize not everyone can take a three or four week trip, I guess. But even when I went to River Palace (RP) I always would pick a girl who I could talk to and want to see again in the future even if just for dinner. These girls would rarely be seen at RP and would only go when they were etremely hard up for cash and they too were selective about who they went home with.
As for me, I can honestly say I spoke to girls from Ukraine, Russia and Belarus who seemed serious. In Minsk I met four or five and I would say at least three came across very serious. Even if they seem not entirely serious, making a new friend or two in a new or foreign city can be a very useful tool and should not be readily discarded. You never know what they can show you or who they will introduce you to if you give them an opportunity. Again, I suppose it all depends upon what you are looking for. Slavic women are not stupid and if they get negative or suspicious vibrations from you they quickly turn cold and that can be interpreted as them not being serious.
However, this is just my opinion based on my preferences and experiences.My opinion that the girls on travelgirls not being serious is based on experience in following through with them until the very end point of trying to have an actual date. All girls that I contacted were pursued strictly as friendship material with the goal being having a normal date to get to know each other. This is the same policy that I follow in meeting girls on the street or anywhere else. I always pursue it as a normal "freebie" relatonship and leave it strictly to the girl to raise the issue of p4p if that is what she has in mind in order to give it up. Your suggestion of offering a girl $200 to bend over is as funny as it is not practical in the field, unless you want to have your face slapped regularly. I too had preliminary conversations with girls from the travelgirls website which were encouraging. However, after selecting the most appealing four girls to follow through with and try to actually meet, one proved to be a scam artist solely trying to get me to send money over the internet, the second propositioned me just before our date for $2000 a day for her time and I sent her packing, the third claimed she had come to Kiev for other business but she never followed thru with responding when I asked her by text message to actually meet and then she claimed later it is too hard for her to come to Kiev again, and the fourth was a nice but average looking girl who did show up but probably more to pick up the dresses I had bought online for her and brought to Kiev as a favor she had asked for (she paid for them fully). Therefore, my opinion was the travelgirls I had sampled were not serious as to the point of actual dating, although they talked a good game in previous communications. Most had proved to be time weasters. I did not choose to waste more of my time on chasing girls from that site, as time is precious in a place like Kiev where I do not fancy spending any of my nights there without a hot girl in my bed.
LJ
Arriving in Kiev on October 10 on the heels of my sexcapades in London (see previous post) , I was anxious to see if I would top those experiences in the arms of some superlative Kiev beauties. So, although quite exhausted from not sleeping Sunday night in London, or the night before during my flight to London, I was anxious to get over to Rio after I settled in to my apartment.
Or you can simply ignore this whole time—wasting thing of feeding the girl (they are all hungry and appreciate it, but, hey, they're on a job and can eat later) , and try to send her off to the showers soon after your arrival at your apartment, so that you can get down to the sex business uppermost on your mind. But I would recommend at least having on hand something nice to offer her to drink, and / or some chocolates.
Now that you are all set up, you are ready to seek companionship and host the lucky girl properly. LOL.
Happy Hunting.
LJHi LJ,
Absolutna! I agree to your post sto prozent! .
I was in Kiev around 40 times, flying "back" in November for 2 weeks. Even shared a flat with an american for 4 weeks. .
Completely share your opinion and enjoy to read. Good and valuable working advices.
Miguel
I don't know about RIO girls but other girls when they come to my flat they are ready to go.
I ask them if they need to shower and give them an unused toothbrush.
When they get out of shower I offer them bottled water, diet coke, bear. Thats all.
And after that they are ready to go.
If I am too nice to them I don't get good service, I want sex, I don't want to be their friends, I don't talk to them very much about their issues and problems.
In Liljoey case I wonder what happens if Lera tells his girlfriends at RIO what an easy time she had, she got paid $300 and did nothing just slept the whole time.
I may try RIO for the first time Saturday after I am done with my mamba girls.
Travelgirls website.
Are the girls serious or not?
It all depends on you, I mean if you are a good looking guy ad have a lot going for you every girl you contact would be interested, I bet if a guy like Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise write to any girl on Travelgirls or any other sites all the girls would be interested.
It all depends on how you look, what you do.
In this trip I am here for fu, I will not waste my time with marriage agencies or Travelgirls.
Adding to my reply to Prosal about my experiences using Travelgirls (TG) website. If someone is the type of Monger who only goes to a city for a very short period of time (a week or less) and is more interested in sex with strippers then TG is not for you. It was mentioned that the girls on the site are not serious and I guess it depends upon what you consider to be serious. If you believe not wanting to exchange sex for money on the spot makes them less serious then it would not surprise me that someone would not care for the site. There are girls on TG who offer that but not many. However, if you are looking for an attractive, young studentka who can speak English and is not having sex with 4 or 5 different guys every week then it is a useful tool. I have been to Rio and the girls are attractive there but I have never enjoyed the idea of being with a woman who fucked four others guys that week. No thanks. I don't care how hot she is. I prefer a GF experience and a friendship rather than 'Hello, how are you? Here's 200 USD now bend over, please. Thank you! ' But it does take time and effort to do this and I realize not everyone can take a three or four week trip, I guess. But even when I went to River Palace (RP) I always would pick a girl who I could talk to and want to see again in the future even if just for dinner. These girls would rarely be seen at RP and would only go when they were etremely hard up for cash and they too were selective about who they went home with. I don't understand if you are looking for friendship and someone to talk to and take to dinner why do you go to RP? Looking to do all these things with a hooker? Can't you find a normal girl?
You think these girls would only go to RP if then were extremely hard up for cash? LOL I guess you think RP is the only spot for student type semi pros? Yeah, if I was a a semi pro and a foreign guy shows up who is interested in me and wants to talk to me and take me to dinner and be friends with I would also play this game of "I only go there when I do not have any money". Don't you think she tells this to other foreign men hoping to get some help and money. When one girl finds a simple man she tells her other friends and they learn from it.
Member #4274
10-20-11, 16:19
I don't understand if you are looking for friendship and someone to talk to and take to dinner why do you go to RP? Looking to do all these things with a hooker? Can't you find a normal girl?
You think these girls would only go to RP if then were extremely hard up for cash? LOL I guess you think RP is the only spot for student type semi pros? Yeah, if I was a a semi pro and a foreign guy shows up who is interested in me and wants to talk to me and take me to dinner and be friends with I would also play this game of "I only go there when I do not have any money". Don't you think she tells this to other foreign men hoping to get some help and money. When one girl finds a simple man she tells her other friends and they learn from it.Muddy7, there is a rather considerable difference between 'girlfriend' and 'girlfriend experience'. Whatismore. I would love to find a 19 to 23-year old hottie in my country to do all these things with but as I am 37 it is very difficult because of the mentality of western women. It is much easier in Eastern Europe. I thought this was obvious. I agree with you about the girls from RP. However, I do consider myself a pretty good judge of character and believed some of thse girls.
I don't know about RIO girls but other girls when they come to my flat they are ready to go.
I ask them if they need to shower and give them an unused toothbrush.
When they get out of shower I offer them bottled water, diet coke, bear. Thats all.
And after that they are ready to go.
If I am too nice to them I don't get good service, I want sex, I don't want to be their friends, I don't talk to them very much about their issues and problems.
In Liljoey case I wonder what happens if Lera tells his girlfriends at RIO what an easy time she had, she got paid $300 and did nothing just slept the whole time.
I may try RIO for the first time Saturday after I am done with my mamba girls.Muddy7, I too am concerned about what might happen if Lera tells others she had no bad consequences after not providing sex even though she had agreed to and was supposed to. But I don't think she will, because I think she knows that the only reason I didn't make any problems for her with complaints to management is because of the nature of our friendship relationship, and that if she betrayed that I'm sure she realizes I could make problems for her. There are also a good number of other girls at Rio who know exactly the kind of intensive sex session a date with me entails, so I don't think anyone there will get the idea they can come for a date with me that doesn't include sex.
Any Rio girl who doesn't want sex will always make that clear in advance in the club and will say to you openly that she is dancer only or that she could only go out dancing but not to apartment.
When an escort comes to your apartment on an outcall from mamba. Ru or other outcall agency that charges by the hour, it is different than taking out a Rio girl for a three or more hour date. The Rio girls don't go with everyone who asks them and it is their choice entirely if they choose to go out with you. So they have to like you in order for you to get them to agree to a date with you. It is not a given that you can have sex with them if you want to. If they think a guy is creepy, he will have difficulty in getting a date in a place like Rio. You should therefore be civil and charming and you will be better off. It is not like the outcall escort from mamba who is coming to your apartment with the fact of having sex with you already decided and that is a given already.
But you will see when you go to Rio the first time. Just be your charming self with the girls there, interview them with a mind toward finding a girl who has chemistry with you and who seems most likely to give you a GFE experience, and use the opportunity of the private dance to good advantage to test both premises. Then enjoy the date with the beautiful young girl you have chosen. Why not accept friendship if it is offered? It can only enhance your intimate GFE experience. There is no need to rush things or to have a brusque manner about getting to the sex. You have three hours to create a terrific erotic experience for yourself, including multiple sex acts to the limit of your capabilities and imagination. It can be an experience on a different level than the more hasty mamba escort session, so use the time to good advantage.
I will be in Kiev again this Sunday for two nights to follow up with some of the hotties I reported on earlier. .
LJ
Well guys I am back from my first trip to Kiev. I can't thank you all enough for the stories you have shared and the advice you have provided. On my way to Kiev I spent 2 weeks in Germany and 1 day in Dubai. I must say, FKK's are freakin' amazing but I was not impressed with Dubai.
Now to Kiev. I spent 4 days and 4 nights in Kiev. I will split my reports up into 4 different posts.
I stayed at Kiev Inn on the fourth floor in the $180 room. I loved the location since my primary reason for visiting Kiev was to play poker and the apartment is in the main city square and a 5-10 minute walk to Kreshnyak Poker room.
Please allow me to clear up any misconceptions about the travelgirls website; you guys seem to be right and wrong on this one. I spent a great deal of time scoping out the site prior to my trip. About 20 days before my trip I purchased a membership and started spamming messages to girls. It is a bit confusing because of many of the girls are not from Kiev but other cities a good distance from Kiev. I would say in all I was corresponding with around 40-60 girls.
Slowly I reduced the number of candidates to 20, then 10, then 5 and at last my top 3. Unfortunately, I was so busy playing poker I only met with 1 girl. All of the girls I skyped / facebooked / e-mailed / talked on the phone with were 100% legit. I don't know who these other guys were talking to.
The 1 girl I decided on is named Anna. She is an 18 years old student. 5'9" with long blond hair. Stunning and when I landed Friday night I intended to meet with here ASAP. However, I got sucked into a poker game and called her around 10:30 PM. She proceeded to tell me that she could not return to the dorm rooms past midnight. I agreed to be a gentleman if she wanted to stay with me at my apartment and she said ok. I met her down at the square and we walked around the city seeing the sites for hours, until 4:00 AM actually.
This girl was everything I could ask for. Smart, funny, TALL, super-hot, spoke perfect English and most of all she was digging me. I really fell for this one guys. She was worth every dollar I spent on the travelgirls fee and then some.
At about 4:00 AM we went back to my room and I mixed us some Whiskey and Cokes. She literally took 1 sip and said she was buzzed so I swooped in and made my move. I took her to the bedroom and we started to fool around a bit. After about 30 minutes of kissing and some pretty heavy petting I noticed she was trembling. I asked her what was wrong and she told me she had never been with a guy before. Stone cold virgin in my bed.
F*CK. I hate my life.
Decision time. I am only 25 and I don't want to buy my one way ticket to hell right now so I told her not to worry, sex is not on my mind (straight up lie) and we fell asleep. One of the hardest things I've ever done but I remembered her telling me that her uncle was the police chief of Kiev or some sh*t so I was a bit terrified.
In the morning I told her I had some stuff going on and that I would call her back that night. I never called back.
So after my semi-failure from travelgirs I decided to get up early and play some poker. I spent about 6 hours at the Kreshnyak Poker Club. After winning around $700 USD (Ukranians really suck at poker) I decided I would hit Rio to see what all the hype is about. I had no idea where Rio club was and I could not find a cab driver who knew what I was talking about either. Don't bother with the Rio website as the address they provide is incorrect.
Eventually I found a cab driver who could get me there and he got me there for cheap and very fast. Cab rides are incredibly cheap in Ukraine; I don't remember what I paid.
When I walked into Rio I remember thinking "Is this it?" The club is very small, cramped and cluttered and the layout doesn't make any sense. Of course, I am not here to rate the clubs decor but I feel like mentioning it. There is not a lot of space and you have to turn your jacket over to the coat check (same story at the poker house). It seemed that there were 3 rooms there. Two of them were upstairs and joined by a hallway and one was downstairs behind a door.
I went straight upstairs after paying some sort of drink / door entry combo fee. I believe it was around $20 USD or something. I started to look for a place to sit near the stage but every table said "reserved." I was a bit perplexed and wondered "well, where the hell am I supposed to sit then?" I decided to try the downstairs room, maybe there are tables / seats available there.
After walking into the downstairs room I noticed all of the tables read "reserved" also. I said f*ck it and sat down. Immediately one or Rio's so-called managers told me that all of these empty tables were reserved and that I may only sit at the bar. At this point I realized I was being discriminated against for my young age. I am only 25 years old and the average age in the room was well above 40. I nearly walked out I was so pissed off but I decided to buy a drink. When I walked up to the bar and pulled out my gangster roll of 8000 Grivnas to pay for my drink the "manager" told me that there was a table available. I just gave him a dirty look, nodded and sat down at the bar, completely fed up with his bullsh*t. To entertain myself I chatted it up with the bartenders who were all my age and a lot of fun, same with the waitresses.
Upon arriving at the club I noticed that the girls really lacked any sort of stage presence. They are nothing like strippers in the States. These girls are very mechanical and somewhat boring to watch. However, they are all absolutely stunningly beautiful. I think I fell in love 10 times in the 3 hours I was there.
After about 2 hours of getting annihilated drunk I decided I would see what these lap dances were all about. I bought one from a girl who didn't speak much English. The lapdances are 200 Grivnas and they are incredible. They take you to a private room and in these rooms the girls really show of their talent. Both the girls I had got completely naked and there were no stupid American strip club etiquette / rules to abide by. The dances both lasted either 2 or 3 songs, well worth the money spent. I wish I would have gotten more dances while I was there but I was way too drunk to enjoy them.
The second girl I wanted a dance from was named Mia. She had the nicest rack I have ever seen in my life, in film or up close! I asked her if she would like to leave with me and she said "Wait a minute, I don't just leave with anyone. Let's have a dance, get to know e we will talk after." So I bought a freaky ass dance from this girl and she was great. After the dance we walked back to the bar and she told me she would like to a night club with me. I said ok, paid the house their $300 USD and we left to D'lux.
D'lux is amazing, simply amazing. Great music, awesome dance floor, the bar upstairs is real nice and there were even places to sit. The place was jammed packed with gorgeous girls all over the place. Being there with a girl really turns their head too! Mia and I had some drinks and hit the dance floor. We danced for about 1 1/2 hours and she said she wanted to hurry back to my place so we could have sex. However, at this point I am beyond drunk and barely holding my own.
We got back to the house and she jumped in the shower so I followed. Wow, what a body. Not really tall and not the best smile but like I said easily the nicest tits I have ever seen. We hit the bedroom and she gave me a CBJ. I followed her up with some really, really, really drunk DATY for a long while (trying to sober up LOL). We screwed in every imaginable position for about 45-60 minutes. This girl was dedicated to the cause, I mean I have never seen this much dedication. She knew I had Whiskey the*ck and didn't care. She just kept going and going like the energizer bunny.
After it was all said and done I think we spent about 4 or 5 hours together and I had a great time. Rio, as club and their customer service, is totally crap but the girls are out of this world.
Note to self: don't drink too much.
So Rio was a good time. The club sucks but the girls are something else entirely. I awoke incredibly hungover at 10:00 AM and decided to hit the Poker room. I stayed for about 7 hours and walked out with $500 USD. On my walk home I bought a cell phone and when I got back to the house I called a "top-model" girl. The girl who showed up was hot, not Rio hot, but super hot nonetheless and she had the nicest, tightest p*ssy I have ever had the pleasure of. Well, you get the picture.
The rate was 1000 UAH / hour and I only had the energy and stamina for 1 hour, if that after drinking so much. The website has girls rangin from 500 UAH / hour all the way up to 4000 UAH / hour or something. I decided on the 1000 / hour number in order to have a better chance at getting a hot girl.
The girl who arrived was very sweet but shy. I could tell she was surprised to see me, a 25 year old American. I don't remember her exact height but I would say between 5'2 and 5'5. I am 6'2 so I could throw her around pretty easily. I offered her a drink but she declined, I mean it was 5:00 PM LOL. I took her the the bedroom and again received only a CBJ. I offered her more money for a BBBJ and she said no. I was a little pissed off about this so I made sure to anger bang doggystyle later on. Much like my Rio girl, Mia, this girl had an immaculate rack, I mean these things were nice. It is too bad that she lacked personality. This could be a result of our language barrier however I am unsure. I was still so hungover my brain wasn't functioning correctly.
After she left I went back to the Poker Room at 9:00 PM Sunday night and went on a hot streak. I stayed there till 8:00 AM Monday morning and cleaned house. I walked out $2, 000 USD ahead and went back to my room to pack my stuff for my 2:00 PM flight out of KBP to DXB. Little did I know I would be staying another night.
When I got back to my hotel at 9:00 AM the guy at the front desk stopped me. He said something in Ukrainian (I only speak English) and handed me a letter. I was confused and wondering what the hell was going on. The letter had my name on it. Instead of writing verbatim what was in the letter I will give you the quick rundown.
The girl, Anna from travelgirls, came to my hotel and left this letter as she was unable to reach me any other way. The letter basically said that she likes me so much and she didn't understand why I never called back. It was two pages long and very heartfelt. I couldn't help but give in and call the poor virgin. I told the front desk guy thanks and ran up to my room. Once in my room I called her and apologized for not calling back and invited her over. She said she had class at 1:30 but would come over for a bit.
At this point I have not slept, running off of a 14 hour poker rush and a mega hangover still lurking. I am set to leave Ukraine at 2:00 PM and she tells me she will be at my room in 2. 5 hours. Just enough time for a mamba girl I think and I start considering staying another day.
I hop online and do some quick window shopping. It was hard to get an instant response from these girls for a rendezvous but I finally reached one who could be at my place and fast. She said it would be 600 grivnas for an hour. She arrived shortly after and looked nothing like the girl in the picture. This girl was not hot by Ukrainian standards but very do-able. Strangely though she was a great lay and just loved to f*ck. Very energetic and enthusiastic but lacked English speaking skills. Also, she refused to BBBJ and only performed a CBJ and I did not perform DATY on this one but I had a great time with her! Mamba was a good experience. Great cheap fun if you ask me and it's such a crap shoot on what you're going to have knocking at your door LOL.
Shortly after the mamba girl left my Ukrainian princess Anna arrived. She showed up with two Big Macs and two Cokes. I could not believe this girl so very sweet. When she told me she was coming over Friday night I asked if I could buy her a cab and she refused. Then on Monday I asked again and she said no, the subway is much cheaper. Now she shows up with free food and such a beautiful smile, my hear literally melted. That was it, I called the airlines and changed my ticket 1 day ($140USD) and bought the room for one more night ($180USD).
We ate lunch and talked about everything. After a while we made it to the bedroom and fooled around a bit. She skipped her first class to stay in bed with me but I insisted that she make it to the rest of her classes as I was in serious need of some rest. She told me she would be back at 7:00 PM to wake me up. I told her I wanted to take her to dinner and ice skating.
Member #4274
10-21-11, 18:12
When I got back to my hotel at 9:00 AM the guy at the front desk stopped me. He said something in Ukrainian (I only speak English) and handed me a letter. I was confused and wondering what the hell was going on. The letter had my name on it. Instead of writing verbatim what was in the letter I will give you the quick rundown.
The girl, Anna from travelgirls, came to my hotel and left this letter as she was unable to reach me any other way. The letter basically said that she likes me so much and she didn't understand why I never called back. It was two pages long and very heartfelt. I couldn't help but give in and call the poor virgin. I told the front desk guy thanks and ran up to my room. Once in my room I called her and apologized for not calling back and invited her over. She said she had class at 1:30 but would come over for a bit.
At this point I have not slept, running off of a 14 hour poker rush and a mega hangover still lurking. I am set to leave Ukraine at 2:00 PM and she tells me she will be at my room in 2. 5 hours. Just enough time for a mamba girl I think and I start considering staying another day.
I hop online and do some quick window shopping. It was hard to get an instant response from these girls for a rendezvous but I finally reached one who could be at my place and fast. She said it would be 600 grivnas for an hour. She arrived shortly after and looked nothing like the girl in the picture. This girl was not hot by Ukrainian standards but very do-able. Strangely though she was a great lay and just loved to f*ck. Very energetic and enthusiastic but lacked English speaking skills. Also, she refused to BBBJ and only performed a CBJ and I did not perform DATY on this one but I had a great time with her! Mamba was a good experience. Great cheap fun if you ask me and it's such a crap shoot on what you're going to have knocking at your door LOL.
Shortly after the mamba girl left my Ukrainian princess Anna arrived. She showed up with two Big Macs and two Cokes. I could not believe this girl so very sweet. When she told me she was coming over Friday night I asked if I could buy her a cab and she refused. Then on Monday I asked again and she said no, the subway is much cheaper. Now she shows up with free food and such a beautiful smile, my hear literally melted. That was it, I called the airlines and changed my ticket 1 day ($140USD) and bought the room for one more night ($180USD).
We ate lunch and talked about everything. After a while we made it to the bedroom and fooled around a bit. She skipped her first class to stay in bed with me but I insisted that she make it to the rest of her classes as I was in serious need of some rest. She told me she would be back at 7:00 PM to wake me up. I told her I wanted to take her to dinner and ice skating.Robreefer, your reports a really very good! I enjoyed reading all of them and was disappointed there was not more. Well said and well written. It makes me miss lovely Kiev!
One of the main reasons I did not go back to Kiev on my last trip (I went to Minsk instead) was the lack of gambling in the city. There are no casinos, as you know. I can't gamble in my city as I am a professional but when I go on vacation I like to play roulette and poker. I didn't know there was a poker room on Kreschatik. Where abouts? Was it difficult to use the room if you don't speak Russian or Ukrainian (it appears you had no problems)?
Oh, you should keep wining and dining that Anna chick, she sounds like a real keeper!
When I walked into Rio I remember thinking "Is this it?" The club is very small, cramped and cluttered and the layout doesn't make any sense. Of course, I am not here to rate the clubs decor but I feel like mentioning it. There is not a lot of space and you have to turn your jacket over to the coat check (same story at the poker house). It seemed that there were 3 rooms there. Two of them were upstairs and joined by a hallway and one was downstairs behind a door.
I went straight upstairs after paying some sort of drink / door entry combo fee. I believe it was around $20 USD or something. I started to look for a place to sit near the stage but every table said "reserved." I was a bit perplexed and wondered "well, where the hell am I supposed to sit then?" I decided to try the downstairs room, maybe there are tables / seats available there.
After walking into the downstairs room I noticed all of the tables read "reserved" also. I said f*ck it and sat down. Immediately one or Rio's so-called managers told me that all of these empty tables were reserved and that I may only sit at the bar. At this point I realized I was being discriminated against for my young age. I am only 25 years old and the average age in the room was well above 40. I nearly walked out I was so pissed off but I decided to buy a drink. When I walked up to the bar and pulled out my gangster roll of 8000 Grivnas to pay for my drink the "manager" told me that there was a table available. I just gave him a dirty look, nodded and sat down at the bar, completely fed up with his bullsh*t. To entertain myself I chatted it up with the bartenders who were all my age and a lot of fun, same with the waitresses.
Upon arriving at the club I noticed that the girls really lacked any sort of stage presence. They are nothing like strippers in the States. These girls are very mechanical and somewhat boring to watch. However, they are all absolutely stunningly beautiful. I think I fell in love 10 times in the 3 hours I was there.
After about 2 hours of getting annihilated drunk I decided I would see what these lap dances were all about. I bought one from a girl who didn't speak much English. The lapdances are 200 Grivnas and they are incredible. They take you to a private room and in these rooms the girls really show of their talent. Both the girls I had got completely naked and there were no stupid American strip club etiquette / rules to abide by. The dances both lasted either 2 or 3 songs, well worth the money spent. I wish I would have gotten more dances while I was there but I was way too drunk to enjoy them.
The second girl I wanted a dance from was named Mia. She had the nicest rack I have ever seen in my life, in film or up close! I asked her if she would like to leave with me and she said "Wait a minute, I don't just leave with anyone. Let's have a dance, get to know e we will talk after." So I bought a freaky ass dance from this girl and she was great. After the dance we walked back to the bar and she told me she would like to a night club with me. I said ok, paid the house their $300 USD and we left to D'lux.
Note to self: don't drink too much."Is this it?" I remember thinking the same thing on my first entry. I recieved some very invisiting looks from two dancers at the time upstairs. I sat at the bar had a glass of wine. Could not really sit at the seating area because 2 guys kinda took up all the space. Went downstairs for a look & found it to be completely empty of customers. Went to sit down, & as yourself the "manager" comes over. This table is reserved.) I see I said. What about that table over there? Reserved. Oh I see, so all your tables are reserved but no people around. Hmm interesting. I sit at the bar order a drink, hit on the bar staff. They one was concerned about passing her contact details, I can guess why. Then after about 5 minutes I'm offered a seat. Still tumble weeds rolling in that downstairs regarding customers. The girls vary in beauty from 10's to 7. The lapdance was really good, & I would not hesitate to have another few when I return. Isn't $300 3 hours, $400 for the night? Or was it shutting time so $300 would suffice.
Good few days buddy.
When I walked into Rio I remember thinking "Is this it?" The club is very small, cramped and cluttered and the layout doesn't make any sense. Of course, I am not here to rate the clubs decor but I feel like mentioning it. There is not a lot of space and you have to turn your jacket over to the coat check (same story at the poker house). It seemed that there were 3 rooms there. Two of them were upstairs and joined by a hallway and one was downstairs behind a door.
I went straight upstairs after paying some sort of drink / door entry combo fee. I believe it was around $20 USD or something. I started to look for a place to sit near the stage but every table said "reserved." I was a bit perplexed and wondered "well, where the hell am I supposed to sit then?" I decided to try the downstairs room, maybe there are tables / seats available there.
After walking into the downstairs room I noticed all of the tables read "reserved" also. I said f*ck it and sat down. Immediately one or Rio's so-called managers told me that all of these empty tables were reserved and that I may only sit at the bar. At this point I realized I was being discriminated against for my young age. I am only 25 years old and the average age in the room was well above 40. I nearly walked out I was so pissed off but I decided to buy a drink. When I walked up to the bar and pulled out my gangster roll of 8000 Grivnas to pay for my drink the "manager" told me that there was a table available. I just gave him a dirty look, nodded and sat down at the bar, completely fed up with his bullsh*t. To entertain myself I chatted it up with the bartenders who were all my age and a lot of fun, same with the waitresses.
Upon arriving at the club I noticed that the girls really lacked any sort of stage presence. They are nothing like strippers in the States. These girls are very mechanical and somewhat boring to watch.I went there tonight and thats exactly how I felt.
As for the girls, there were about 15 girls there.
First I sat by the bar upstairs.
Then I paid one of the managers 100 grivna and sat in the VIP room.
I found only one of the girls good enough for me to take home, I guess her name was Sofia, a blond.
So I told the manger I would like to talk to her.
Well, first she came over and told she has to dance now, yes, she had to go on stage
After her dances on stage she siad I can't come now I'm busy.
So, that was it.
I did not stay there longer, I left because the other girls were not interesting to me at all, on my scale they were all 6 or 7, I would not pay to take them home
So far in Kiev I have seen a 21, 18, and a 20 year old girl and they were all better than the other 14 dancers at RIO.
As I got up to leave the manager said maybe you can pick another girl, I said I wish I could but they are not interesting to me.
Will I go there again? Maybe, will see
I hop online and do some quick window shopping. It was hard to get an instant response from these girls for a rendezvous but I finally reached one who could be at my place and fast. She said it would be 600 grivnas for an hour. She arrived shortly after and looked nothing like the girl in the picture. This girl was not hot by Ukrainian standards but very do-able. Strangely though she was a great lay and just loved to f*ck. Very energetic and enthusiastic but lacked English speaking skills. Also, she refused to BBBJ and only performed a CBJ and I did not perform DATY on this one but I had a great time with her! Mamba was a good experience. Great cheap fun if you ask me and it's such a crap shoot on what you're going to have knocking at your door LOL.There all many profiles on mamba with fake photos.
I asked them if their photos are real, I also tell them if the photos are not real they must email me their real photos otherwise they could be wasting their time coming to me.
Some profiles have real photos, some of them email me their real photos, some of them say they will email me their real photos and never do (its ok, maybe they are not pretty)
"Is this it?" I remember thinking the same thing on my first entry. I recieved some very invisiting looks from two dancers at the time upstairs. I sat at the bar had a glass of wine. Could not really sit at the seating area because 2 guys kinda took up all the space. Went downstairs for a look & found it to be completely empty of customers. Went to sit down, & as yourself the "manager" comes over. This table is reserved.) I see I said. What about that table over there? Reserved. Oh I see, so all your tables are reserved but no people around.
Good few days buddy.I was there FRIDAY night, I left at 11:30pm.
There were about only 8-10 people in the VIP room and the 2nd stage upstairs.
Only 8-10 people on one of the busiest night of the week and the empty tables were all reserved, it seems they just do this so that you pay them extra.
I was there FRIDAY night, I left at 11:30pm.
There were about only 8-10 people in the VIP room and the 2nd stage upstairs.
Only 8-10 people on one of the busiest night of the week and the empty tables were all reserved, it seems they just do this so that you pay them extra.This is a common practice in many clubs all over the former Soviet Union. Ukrainians know the game. Either give the management some incentive to let you sit at a table (promise to spend money) or just pay them outright. Many clubs / strip clubs in the former Soviet Union have explicit separate prices for bar-room or table. In fact there are often different prices depending on which table you want.
We ate lunch and talked about everything. After a while we made it to the bedroom and fooled around a bit. She skipped her first class to stay in bed with me but I insisted that she make it to the rest of her classes as I was in serious need of some rest. She told me she would be back at 7:00 PM to wake me up. I told her I wanted to take her to dinner and ice skating.Rob,
Thanks for the great read, and congat for your nice first visit to Kiev!
But this is not the end of your report, is it? I mean it so abruptly ends, and you're giving me an anxiety attack! Anna? I'm hoping she's not my Anna! I also hanged with a girl named Anna in Kiev this past summer, who was 18 and a virgin at that time. And I left her as she was... Every description of her fits, except that you said she was a blonde. Was she a blonde-blonde? My Anna was a blonde-brown. What is she studying? Mine is studying art. I even took her to ice skating!
Sorry for my anxiety, but hope you let us know what you ended up doing with her. LOL!
Walking down towards Kreshatic from Baseina, an old lady stops to talk to me. I speak english I say, ah english! She speaks english. Ukraine is such a hard place, cold, hard, no money. Can you give me some money. I pull out 20 grn here you go lady. And she looks & says more! More! Snarling at me almost I want more. I look at her for a second, then say good night & walk off, & what do I get for my good deed a muttering in Ukrainain. So on I walk to my meeting with a young lady that was a long time coming. This girl literally blew me away. With all her smoking. I mean every cigarette that went out 2 more lit up. Nice personality I will say, very smart girl, but if anyone had no awareness of anothers breathing space & health with these cigarettes. This is the girl. 2 packs of 20 a day. Lady paid her share & more so, which was another first for me in Kiev regarding first meetings. Very well off young lady. However I'm still choking a day later. It was like being in a trance club with smoke streaming out of the big tubes engulfing the room. Can you aim that smoke esle where? O sorry, pshhh above my head. Against the wall next to my head, streaming all the around me. Laughing your funny, smoke directly back into my face. Cigarette in the ashtray drifting in its string line only to get waved away by my left hand. None the less the direct stench now infesting my very nature & peace of mind. My hands clenched on the table fronting a barrier to void the smoke away from my nose & face, could she not understand this body language? Or was the Malibu & smoke frying her brain! I'm surprized lady did not lit up in the taxi on route home together before I got out in the space of 2 minutes.
I am not an experienced monger and to be honest only use escorts when I am looking for something special such as a threesome or a sex party. I am wanting to find out if there would be any interest for an organised private sex party in Kiev.
Since there is no swinging scene in the Ukraine, (well none that I have been able to find) , I am proposing that we organise a sex party, I. E. Book a suitable large apartment and stock it with snack food, soft drinks, alcohol and most importantly. Sexy women. Please note, I am not proposing to arrange this on my own, it is not a commercial proposition. This would be something that those attending would organise and pay for jointly between us.
Obviously finding suitable girls would be the main problem, but if we share and pool information I am sure it can be organised.
Would any one be interested in this?
Upon arriving at the club I noticed that the girls really lacked any sort of stage presence. They are nothing like strippers in the States. These girls are very mechanical and somewhat boring to watch. However, they are all absolutely stunningly beautiful. I think I fell in love 10 times in the 3 hours I was there.This is totally true. Strip clubs in the FSU have totally spoiled me to ones back in the states. Not only are the girls way hotter, but you can get away with so much.
During private dances I always suck on their titties, lightly bite their nipples, and sometimes make out with them. Several times we've had fun with our hands. And this is all without paying (besides the private dance fee).
This is going to sound weird, but I actually find sucking on their breasts is the gateway to opening them up, since you can't kiss them generally but they make their breasts available to you. Just touching them won't get excited, but some mouth action will get them wanting more and from there they will often start kissing you.
If you go to a strip club in Kiev / Moscow / Pete and don't do this kind of thing you're really getting ripped off.
Member #4274
10-22-11, 18:59
Walking down towards Kreshatic from Baseina, an old lady stops to talk to me. I speak english I say, ah english! She speaks english. Ukraine is such a hard place, cold, hard, no money. Can you give me some money. I pull out 20 grn here you go lady. And she looks & says more! More! Snarling at me almost I want more. I look at her for a second, then say good night & walk off, & what do I get for my good deed a muttering in Ukrainain. So on I walk to my meeting with a young lady that was a long time coming. This girl literally blew me away. With all her smoking. I mean every cigarette that went out 2 more lit up. Nice personality I will say, very smart girl, but if anyone had no awareness of anothers breathing space & health with these cigarettes. This is the girl. 2 packs of 20 a day. Lady paid her share & more so, which was another first for me in Kiev regarding first meetings. Very well off young lady. However I'm still choking a day later. It was like being in a trance club with smoke streaming out of the big tubes engulfing the room. Can you aim that smoke esle where? O sorry, pshhh above my head. Against the wall next to my head, streaming all the around me. Laughing your funny, smoke directly back into my face. Cigarette in the ashtray drifting in its string line only to get waved away by my left hand. None the less the direct stench now infesting my very nature & peace of mind. My hands clenched on the table fronting a barrier to void the smoke away from my nose & face, could she not understand this body language? Or was the Malibu & smoke frying her brain! I'm surprized lady did not lit up in the taxi on route home together before I got out in the space of 2 minutes.Mystery77,
I could not agree more. My least favorite thing about spending time in Central / Eastern Europe is not drivers who drive on sidewalks; its not how people there try to rip you off when they hear your western accent; its not the police who will try to get a bribe out of you; its not the terrible clothes shopping; it is all the smoking. Its awful. People who smoke often do not fully realize (or care) how awful and disgusting the smell of smoke is to a nonsmoker. I always ask a woman I meet online if she smokes and I make sure she understands I don't like the habit. When I met women at River Palace I always explained to them that if they wanted my money they could not smoke at my flat. In Minsk it was great as most restaurants and cafes offer a no smoking section. If I am going to Europe for an extended period of time I always try to include a city I know that does not allow smoking in public places, like Tallinn or Paris.
I was there FRIDAY night, I left at 11:30pm.
There were about only 8-10 people in the VIP room and the 2nd stage upstairs.
Only 8-10 people on one of the busiest night of the week and the empty tables were all reserved, it seems they just do this so that you pay them extra.Yes a little ridiculous. I remember in Prague many years ago in a few bar clubs they had people working "undercover," sort of a hostess though you did not know they were apart of the venue. So hot girl approaches, or once approached is won over very easy by boyish charms. Umm, would you like a drink? I'm sure the simple strategies will improve with customer service one day in Strip bars in UKR overall. Though thats the way it is now, & we can take our money to many other places. Or just barrel through the open stage. I suppose its better than getting pissed on. A few friends went to Ibiza a couple months back. And this queer fella pisses all over one of the friends legs, as he was pissing against the wall. All 3 of the were were actually taking a leak on the same wall, male bonding experience. So all drunk pissing on a wall in ibiza, the one getting pissed on hes like what the f*ck! & turns to see this bloke pissing on his leg. Then the queer says you think thats bad? Watch this, & pisses into his face soaking himself like hose pipe. Thats not all, after turns around to his boyfriend & they start kissing & making out. At which point the 3 are a little freaked out in a not afraid way, scratch their heads & walked off to get inside some major club disco as goes.
This is going to sound weird, but I actually find sucking on their breasts is the gateway to opening them up, since you can't kiss them generally but they make their breasts available to you. Just touching them won't get excited, but some mouth action will get them wanting more and from there they will often start kissing you.
If you go to a strip club in Kiev / Moscow / Pete and don't do this kind of thing you're really getting ripped off.
Amongst the clutter being written by some new posters on this thread -- who could all benefit by reading this thread at least going back to the early part of this year, and so gain the information to avoid making completely avoidable mistakes that result in depriving you of the full benefit and experience that could be yours when you attend a strip club like Rio -- there was the above comment.
Latexian2, you, have hit the proverbial nail on the head, with this observation. Listen up, fellas, to this little bit of tested wisdom.
LJ
Anna? I'm hoping she's not my Anna!This happened to my friend. He took home a pro from a bar in Moscow. Turns out she was really into eating his ass. I read on ISG that someone else had been with her the week before (from the same expat bar) with the same kind of story. Nothing like knowing you kissed some chick who had her tongue up another monger's anus just days before! I laughed at my friend's expense.
Borderland
10-22-11, 21:12
Quick question to Kiev experts:
I'm on mamba and arranging girls for my trip to Kiev in November. I'm finding hot women who are advertising for 600 Hrivna an hour (about 60 GBP ). Seems incredibly cheap. Is that the going rate or am I misunderstanding something?
Cheers
I went there tonight and thats exactly how I felt.
As for the girls, there were about 15 girls there.
First I sat by the bar upstairs.
Then I paid one of the managers 100 grivna and sat in the VIP room.
I found only one of the girls good enough for me to take home, I guess her name was Sofia, a blond.
So I told the manger I would like to talk to her.
Well, first she came over and told she has to dance now, yes, she had to go on stage
After her dances on stage she siad I can't come now I'm busy.
So, that was it.
I did not stay there longer, I left because the other girls were not interesting to me at all, on my scale they were all 6 or 7, I would not pay to take them home
So far in Kiev I have seen a 21, 18, and a 20 year old girl and they were all better than the other 14 dancers at RIO.
As I got up to leave the manager said maybe you can pick another girl, I said I wish I could but they are not interesting to me.
Will I go there again? Maybe, will seeYou see the problem is how can we believe anything you write when this is palpably not true. With 3 dancers on floor 1, two more on level 2 public area. 3 more in next area and either 3 or 4 in VIP all dancing simultaneously, that makes 10-12 at any one time.
Usually about 80-100 girls work each night. So criticise by all means, maybe Sofiya was only girl out of 30 you saw in half an hour, but stick to the facts. Thanks.
You see the problem is how can we believe anything you write when this is palpably not true. With 3 dancers on floor 1, two more on level 2 public area. 3 more in next area and either 3 or 4 in VIP all dancing simultaneously, that makes 10-12 at any one time.
Usually about 80-100 girls work each night. So criticise by all means, maybe Sofiya was only girl out of 30 you saw in half an hour, but stick to the facts. Thanks.80-100 NO WAY, zero chance.
I was only on the 2nd floor and when I write 10-15 I mean the 2nd floor, I would say there definitely were not more than 15 dancers on the 2nd floor Friday night until 11pm, I lfet arounf that time.
I must say I had a great great experience with one of the dancers tonight.
Do I recommend RIO? YES, for newbies when you are sure you want to see a dancer you have to let the manager know ASAP (very important) , maybe have a private dance, talk to her a little so she gets to know you a little, and let her know what you want, if you want to taker her home let her know.
RIO is good but it should not be your only option
Do I recommend RIO? YES, for newbies when you are sure you want to see a dancer you have to let the manager know ASAP (very important) , maybe have a private dance, talk to her a little so she gets to know you a little, and let her know what you want, if you want to taker her home let her know.Just out of curiosity, can you list prices for (1) entrance, (2) beer, (3) tipping for public dances and (4) private dances?
Just out of curiosity, can you list prices for (1) entrance, (2) beer, (3) tipping for public dances and (4) private dances?Wow a test.
1- 100.
2- 60 Heineken.
3- I leave that up to you LOL.
4- 200.
FUCK THIS
I have better things to do.
LOL
Just out of curiosity, can you list prices for (1) entrance, (2) beer, (3) tipping for public dances and (4) private dances?His next question is: Did you call and ask?
Yes, that's what I did.
LOL
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80-100 NO WAY, zero chance.
I was only on the 2nd floor and when I write 10-15 I mean the 2nd floor, I would say there definitely were not more than 15 dancers on the 2nd floor Friday night until 11pm, I lfet arounf that time.
I must say I had a great great experience with one of the dancers tonight.
Do I recommend RIO? YES, for newbies when you are sure you want to see a dancer you have to let the manager know ASAP (very important) , maybe have a private dance, talk to her a little so she gets to know you a little, and let her know what you want, if you want to taker her home let her know.
RIO is good but it should not be your only optionMuddy7, seems like you missed out on the full Rio experience when you went there for your first visit. However, what TheKnight wrote to you is correct generally. So keep trying. It is possible that the Friday night you were there at Rio, there was some problem that caused less dancers to be there that particular night. On the preceeding Saturday night I reported that a lot of girls were out sick and there were fewer dancers at the club, to the point that the managers said dances only and no take out possible, and so they shipped me over to their sister club, Paradise, in the club's limo free of charge, which is when I met Sofia, a very pretty blonde with a great body, who, I might add, is great in bed (see my previous reports). If you say you left by 11, it may also be that you did not stay long enough to see the whole line-up on both floors. Although there are a proportion of girls who are not stunners, there has always been some decent amount of girls on Sofia's level and even better. Upstairs on any given night there would have been two separate line-ups to view. One in the VIP, and a separate line-up for the upstairs inner and outer rooms. In the upstairs inner room there are three poles with 3 dancers on them at any given time. The upstairs outer room has 2 poles and 2 dancers. Each girl begins her dancing by first coming out onto the stage and going to the 1st pole in the upstairs inner room. She will dance her 1st song there clothed. The next girl comes out to the 1st pole and the girl will move to a different pole for her 2nd song where she might begin to strip. The process continues and she will move to the 3rd pole and complete her strip dance. When the next girl comes out from offstage, the girl we began with would leave the upstairs inner room and go to the stage in the upstairs outer room for 2 songs there on each of the 2 poles. The only way you can know if you have seen the complete line up is to sit there and observe the show until you see the same girls dancing that you have already seen before begin to appear one by one on the stage. Also bear in mind that as the night begins from around 8:30 until 11 or 12, there will be late arriving girls that will first show their faces on stage later in the evening at some point in the line-up, as well as some girls who will disappear because they got busy with another customer who took them out. So it doesn't seem you were in the club long enough to have seen the entire line up for both the upstairs stages, as well as the whole line up in the VIP. You should not have let your feelings become ruffled when Sofia told you she got busy. It is possible she had a "regular" of hers or of the club's come in and she was requested to go out before you even got a chance to speak to her. This is what happened to me at Paradise when I requested Sanna, only to be told she had left already, which is how I ended up with my 2nd choice, Sofia, that Saturday night. You should have probably just continued searching if not upstairs or in VIP, assuming you are certain you had seen every girl in the line-ups already in those rooms, and also gone to see who was in the line-up in the downstairs bar. You should not have given up until 2am. I find it difficult to accept as true, based on having visited Rio many, many times, that there was NO other girl on the same level of looks as Sofia. It does not accord with my experience. Therefore, I conclude that upon being told by Sofia that she was busy, you must have taken it personally, and you left the club prematurely. You should have rolled with the punches and stuck it out. If you had, I'm sure you would have found something there worth your interest. Your other bits of advice for newbies are correct, but the best advice for newbies, including yourself, is to read the prior reports I have posted concerrning Rio this year, as well as TheKnight's reports about the other strip clubs.
Or you guys can reinvent the wheel and learn from your experiences how things work by trial and error. This isn't brain surgery, but there is a lot of help here on this thread on the prior pages. Give it a read. You will benefit thereby.
LJ
I wonder if other mongers have noticed that Mamba is cleaning up its act. There are hardly any topless ads on the site any more and fewer girls looking for 'sex for money' I also noticed that any obvious soliciting ads that I save in my favourites rapidly have their 'profile deleted'
Another advice: If you dress nice, nice shirt, nice shoes. Just look better than most of the guys in there you get better service, more attention.
Saturday I went there early around 8:45 and left at 10:15 with the dancer I liked, paid 100 grivna to the taxi for a 5 minutes ride (reminded of RP taxis) , if I am not in the VIP room I don't mind sitting near the bar upstairs, I have better view of everything because I can see the girls who are going downstairs or coming upstairs and if I see a girl I like I can tell the manager right away.
The only negative is that the dancer gave me CBJ
I forgot one thing, I paid the dancer $400 and she stayed and slept after we were done, I would not do this next time.
Next time it will be 3 hours for $300, its not because of the extra $100.
About what liljoey wrote about many dancers going to university, working too much and being tired. I could see it in this girl
Goodbye Lenin
10-23-11, 11:25
I'm on mamba and arranging girls for my trip to Kiev in November. I'm finding hot women who are advertising for 600 Hrivna an hour (about 60 GBP ). Seems incredibly cheap. Is that the going rate or am I misunderstanding something?
CheersIt's the average rate of Mamba girls, but pictures are very often unreliable, you will hardly find a stunner there. In bars and clubs you will be asked for 200-300$ per night, but generally girls leave anyway in the early morning, so it might be just for a couple of hours.
Quick question to Kiev experts:
I'm on mamba and arranging girls for my trip to Kiev in November. I'm finding hot women who are advertising for 600 Hrivna an hour (about 60 GBP ). Seems incredibly cheap. Is that the going rate or am I misunderstanding something?
CheersThat would be under 60 euros. You will be asked for taxi funds. This can be negotiated before hand if you can communicate between you. If you decide to spend longer or want longer negotiate times & cost. Lots of girls you will meet will not be real to the photos. Some will be associated with agents finding them work & taking half the income. Some girls work with friends. Some alone. Some will not charge you taxi, I noticed the solo working girls usually don't, & often the friends working group don't. Agent girls usually always do. Regarding the individual costs, usually if you want anal or blowjob without condom this will be extra charge. If you enjoy the company of someone particularly make her know it, see her 2-3 times & branch into something more from their. She might cook you dinner. Also as a first timer or not much time spent in ukr, you can find some real good knowledge & links from the ladies you meet. Straight up street cred, nobody promoting or advertising clubs or whatever model agents for $xxx. You may also say in contact before meeting,"are you real?" If they say yes, & show up to your door & are not. Then you can also feel a little justified & correct in refusing entry to whomever. Agents will say yes real often, & drop a woman or 2 off at your door. This was my learning stage on arrival in Kiev some months back contacting internet sites for company. & it is still the same today without a doubt.
Hi guys,
I will be in Kiev the next week and next WE. If anybody else will also be in Kiev in the same time, may be that we could meet and visit some places together? If you are interested, just PM me.
Hi guys,
I will be in Kiev the next week and next WE. If anybody else will also be in Kiev in the same time, may be that we could meet and visit some places together? If you are interested, just PM me.I will be there from Wed until Sat / Sun. Planning to go to Rio for the first time.
Borderland
10-23-11, 20:56
That would be under 60 euros. You will be asked for taxi funds. This can be negotiated before hand if you can communicate between you. If you decide to spend longer or want longer negotiate times & cost. Lots of girls you will meet will not be real to the photos. Some will be associated with agents finding them work & taking half the income. Some girls work with friends. Some alone. Some will not charge you taxi, I noticed the solo working girls usually don't, & often the friends working group don't. Agent girls usually always do. Regarding the individual costs, usually if you want anal or blowjob without condom this will be extra charge. If you enjoy the company of someone particularly make her know it, see her 2-3 times & branch into something more from their. She might cook you dinner. Also as a first timer or not much time spent in ukr, you can find some real good knowledge & links from the ladies you meet. Straight up street cred, nobody promoting or advertising clubs or whatever model agents for $xxx. You may also say in contact before meeting,"are you real?" If they say yes, & show up to your door & are not. Then you can also feel a little justified & correct in refusing entry to whomever. Agents will say yes real often, & drop a woman or 2 off at your door. This was my learning stage on arrival in Kiev some months back contacting internet sites for company. & it is still the same today without a doubt.Many thanks for sharing that knowledge with me, some really good advice there that I know will serve me well on any future trips. I've visited Kiev before but never knew about mamba till seeing it mentioned on here. It's kind of like a sweet shop, loads of hot looking women offering services at, IF their photos are genuine, are prices that I think are very reasonable. I'm looking to find some hot girls to go clubbing with and then back to the hotel for a couple of hours of fun more then I am short time, and I like the idea of letting the girl know you like her so that things will go even better of further meetings and see what adventures that will lead to. Great advice.
Cheers
Borderland
10-23-11, 21:07
It's the average rate of Mamba girls, but pictures are very often unreliable, you will hardly find a stunner there. In bars and clubs you will be asked for 200-300$ per night, but generally girls leave anyway in the early morning, so it might be just for a couple of hours.Cheers. I'll certainly bargain them down if possible. I know about the clubs in Kiev where you can find freelancers but any recommendations on good centrally located bars where pros hang out before they move onto the clubs?
Cheers. I'll certainly bargain them down if possible. I know about the clubs in Kiev where you can find freelancers but any recommendations on good centrally located bars where pros hang out before they move onto the clubs?Where did you hear that the pro-girls hang out in bars before going to work (dance) in the night-club? I have never heard them mention this and find it improbable. Most of them are students or have a day-time job. Maybe there are some high-class escorts or dancers who lead glamorous life-style in some bar, but I tend to think this would be a rather exclusive and expensive place. Which is not what I am looking for in K. And regarding bars. My Russian is very poor and I find local bars hard to handle, except Irish Pub, where the staff is English-speaking and friendly. And maybe also Arena Sport Bar. So I stick to the clubs to hook up with locals, male or female. Dance-club and night-club. All the best!
Borderland
10-23-11, 23:23
Where did you hear that the pro-girls hang out in bars before going to work (dance) in the night-club? I have never heard them mention this and find it improbable. Most of them are students or have a day-time job. Maybe there are some high-class escorts or dancers who lead glamorous life-style in some bar, but I tend to think this would be a rather exclusive and expensive place.Roll Buzz; I don't know that they do hang out in bars before hitting a club. I'm just presuming that they do what people do all over the world before going to a club, I. E go to a pub or two for a few drinks before the clubs open. I didn't mean in the daytime and I certainly did not mean an exclusive and expensive place. Just meant a regular pub. I ask because I'm more of a pub type of bloke then a nightclub guy, so don't want to hit a club every night I'm there but still want to pick up freebies and freelancers on the nights I don't go clubbing. Cheers.
Regarding Mamba and girls putting down that they are seeking 'sponsorship'. Is the word sponsorship a polite way of saying 'punter for short time' or does it mean as it did back in the day, that the girl is seeking someone to put her on a monthly stipend in return for her time whenever they're in town?
I have to say, Mamba is a punter's dream! All those women under one roof laying down exactly what they're after and no need to a pay a joining fee or to message them! An awesome tool that makes planning trips so much easier then it used to be.
Roll Buzz; I don't know that they do hang out in bars before hitting a club. I'm just presuming that they do what people do all over the world before going to a club, I. E go to a pub or two for a few drinks before the clubs open. I didn't mean in the daytime and I certainly did not mean an exclusive and expensive place. Just meant a regular pub. I ask because I'm more of a pub type of bloke then a nightclub guy, so don't want to hit a club every night I'm there but still want to pick up freebies and freelancers on the nights I don't go clubbing. Cheers.
Regarding Mamba and girls putting down that they are seeking 'sponsorship'. Is the word sponsorship a polite way of saying 'punter for short time' or does it mean as it did back in the day, that the girl is seeking someone to put her on a monthly stipend in return for her time whenever they're in town?
I have to say, Mamba is a punter's dream! All those women under one roof laying down exactly what they're after and no need to a pay a joining fee or to message them! An awesome tool that makes planning trips so much easier then it used to be.Borderland,
I don't want to disappoint you, but my advice would be: don't count on anything you get out of Mamba or don't believe everything you see in Mamba. For example, we all know that those offering sex use fake photos. Almost anybody would put 'sponcership" just for fun (despite that fact that it means the girl is seeking someone to put her on a monthly stipend in return for her time whenever they're in town).
In the future I would use Mamba only to hook up with regular girls, which is an extremely difficult thing to do for foreigners, and not to seek P4P.
I don't want to disappoint you, but my advice would be: don't count on anything you get out of Mamba or don't believe everything you see in Mamba.
In the future I would use Mamba only to hook up with regular girls, which is an extremely difficult thing to do for foreigners, and not to seek P4P.I think Mamba is pretty bad for meeting normal girls. I've had very good success using vkontakte and odnoklassniki, which are normal sites for social networking. You can make a profile and talk to girls, say you have business in Kiev (or wherever) and get to know them. Many will then be willing to meet up. Of course, none of these girls are pros, but I have had mixed results asking these girls if they would like to be my guide to show me around (for a fee of course). Many get the hint, and will act as guides as well as be willing when it comes to romance. This way you avoid the pros and get the semipros (or nice girls looking for a good time and some spending money) which I think most will agree are better in nearly all ways then the real pros. It's not an open online meat market like mamba, but remember in Ukraine the line between semi-girlfriend and prostitute can be very blurred.
If you tell a girl you're a foreigner coming to Kiev and looking for a girl to show you around and take care of you, and will pay her for her time, but there's no discussion of sex, is that prostitution? If you offer some girl from nearby Kiev to do that, and offer her to stay with you in your flat, she will 100% understand what you are expecting. And many girls will jump at this kind of opportunity, if you tell them you'll take them shopping and give them $200 while they're with you. But these are still nice girls and while they understand these things, if you try negotiating for sex explicitly they will get offended and not want to meet. You have to be discrete and realize that these girls are smart and understand what you're getting at. Of course when they show up they may still try to take your money and do nothing, but if you are strong-willed with them they will respond with passion.
If you have limited time online and in country, mamba may be a better bet. But I would still encourage people to try the normal social networking sites. On vkontakte for instance you can limit your search to a specific age range and girls who are "actively searching." Then you can look at their pictures, and those that are more "pafos" are often more willing to do short term relationships. By that I mean if a girl's profile is a professional picture of her in makeup at a night club in a sexy pose, you've got an okay (maybe 10%) chance of her responding favorably to such suggestions. The normal girls would of course be offended, but you can still meet up with them as freebies.
And as I said, a very good strategy is to find a girl from outside Kiev (but not far away, e.g. something like Chernigov) and invite her for a weekend of fun.
Different strokes for different folks, but I find the cold-show pros a completely undesirable option, especially as more often than not you don't know what you're getting because pictures are fake (and let's be honest, most times the girl would be worse than the pics). Instead we should take advantage of the fact of being in a country where there is a middle ground between girlfriend and prostitution, one that has less moral stigma and many girls are intrigued by.
For those looking for a fast pop after a business meeting this doesn't help, but if you want to find a smoking hot 8-10 18-year old who you can spend a weekend in bed and around town with, this is the best method I've found. One-pop hot escorts are available in every major city in the world, but this second option is the one I think many are coming to Ukraine for. The big difference is on mamba you are limited to a small number of girls who are actively seeking love, sex, and foreigners mixed in with many fake profiles. On vkontakte there are many fewer fake profiles, and many many more girls, some who might be willing to have a relationship with a foreigner but haven't gone out of their way to seek that out.
Plus I think we need to be smart about these things. The best strategy of course is just to go out to clubs or walk around town and pick up hotties on the street who are attracted to your personality and your body. But most of us are too old or not good-looking enough for that. And many things in Eastern Europe are harder than a decade or more ago, and most of that is due to economic development. This is why I think Ukraine is a much, much better destination than Russia, since the economic disparity is very apparent (Ukraine is like Russia without the gas/oil). But one area where we do have a big advantage over our cousins 15 years ago (foreigners mongering/sex touring in the FSU) is in information technology. Now there are all these girls online. And not just marriage agencies or escort agencies, but normal girls that talk to their friends and sit online every day. Having a foreigner "add" them as a friend is an unexpected event, and many are very intrigued, whereas on mamba it happens to them every day and these are real pros. Now you can pick any small town in Ukraine and find 50-100 smoking hot young women and talk to them from your couch in Cleveland. That was impossible 10 years ago. And many of these girls will be amazed they are chatting with a foreigner (many tell me they are excited as I'm their first foreign friend). Some of these girls (5% maybe) are willing/open to arrange a meeting that basically implies sexual romance (coming to stay with you at a flat in Kiev). These social networks we should use to our advantage. (And note vkontakte.ru does have an English-language version)
That said plans change and many of these girls break promises or won't show up when you do finally arrive. So you should have backup plans if you're in country for a short while (mamba, clubs, Rio, etc.). But I just think most mongers on here dream about an 18-22 year old who has only had a handful of sexual partners in the past, is amazed to be getting your attention, and wants to try a little adventure that they've never experienced before. A Rio stripper or mamba pro is not at all enticing to me in comparison.
Finally one last thing is couchsurfing.com. This is a website that has people offering their couches or spare beds to visitors. It is hugely popular in Ukraine, and you can see pictures of the people in their profiles. They verify addresses by mailing you a card with a code to type in, so they know you actually live at that address. In Kiev there are tons of hot women posting profiles, offering places to stay. Many of them want to practice English/French. None of them are pros, but they tend to be a little older (25-35) and I have seen spontaneous romance. If you're on a budget it's an interesting option, and you can probably feel them out by chatting to see if they'd be interested in hosting you for a romantic weekend (with shopping, restaurants, etc. paid for). I think it might work for someone on a budget, but like I've said I've only seen spontaneous romance with it, and not pre-arranged.
CallSign Papa
10-24-11, 07:46
Different strokes for different folks.I think this is exactly right. In mongering terms, Kiev isn't a "one size fits all" proposition. Knowing what you want before you get there is the key to coming home happy.
Want smoking hot chicks with minimal outlay and don't mind the cost?
Rio is your best option. You'll pay (relatively) over the odds for a guaranteed stunner (but with no promise on quality in the sack). Gio is another option, although I've personally never had takeout from there.
Want smoking hot chicks you can chat to, invest time in and negotiate?
Hit the clubs and bars. DLux is currently the best in terms of quality, but there are so many cool bars and clubs in Kiev, wherever you go, you'll see hot girls who aren't averse to a chat, a drink and maybe more.
Want a beautiful young freebie?
As Latexian2 writes, Odnoklassniki and Vkontacte will work nicely but as many have suggested, this requires more time and effort and doesn't reap instant reward. Also, if you don't speak Russian you're greatly reducing your potential pool of candidates. It's really not hard to learn the basics, and it WILL open doors (and maybe, legs).
Want a girl to come over pronto and bang your brains out for next to nothing?
Mamba can't be beat. Yes, the photos are pretty much all fake. Yes the girl who shows up could be a horror show (or a surprisingly cute one) , but what do you want for 600 grv an hour? Tea with the Queen?
I think I'm right in saying that most of the seasoned Kiev travelers generally mix and match. I always have one or two previous club hookups planned when I arrive, I'll leave room for new conquests on subsequent nights out, try and cultivate one or two freebies (usually that I've seen before) and if I'm at a loose end sometimes Mamba hits the spot.
I'll be back in town next week if anyone fancies meeting up for a beer.
I think Mamba is pretty bad for meeting normal girls. I've had very good success using vkontakte and odnoklassniki, which are normal sites for social networking. You can make a profile and talk to girls, say you have business in Kiev (or wherever) and get to know them. Many will then be willing to meet up. Of course, none of these girls are pros, but I have had mixed results asking these girls if they would like to be my guide to show me around (for a fee of course). Many get the hint, and will act as guides as well as be willing when it comes to romance. This way you avoid the pros and get the semipros (or nice girls looking for a good time and some spending money) which I think most will agree are better in nearly all ways then the real pros. It's not an open online meat market like mamba, but remember in Ukraine the line between semi-girlfriend and prostitute can be very blurred.
If you tell a girl you're a foreigner coming to Kiev and looking for a girl to show you around and take care of you, and will pay her for her time, but there's no discussion of sex, is that prostitution? If you offer some girl from nearby Kiev to do that, and offer her to stay with you in your flat, she will 100% understand what you are expecting. And many girls will jump at this kind of opportunity, if you tell them you'll take them shopping and give them $200 while they're with you. But these are still nice girls and while they understand these things, if you try negotiating for sex explicitly they will get offended and not want to meet. You have to be discrete and realize that these girls are smart and understand what you're getting at. Of course when they show up they may still try to take your money and do nothing, but if you are strong-willed with them they will respond with passion.
If you have limited time online and in country, mamba may be a better bet. But I would still encourage people to try the normal social networking sites. On vkontakte for instance you can limit your search to a specific age range and girls who are "actively searching." Then you can look at their pictures, and those that are more "pafos" are often more willing to do short term relationships. By that I mean if a girl's profile is a professional picture of her in makeup at a night club in a sexy pose, you've got an okay (maybe 10%) chance of her responding favorably to such suggestions. The normal girls would of course be offended, but you can still meet up with them as freebies.
And as I said, a very good strategy is to find a girl from outside Kiev (but not far away, e. G. Something like Chernigov) and invite her for a weekend of fun.
Different strokes for different folks, but I find the cold-show pros a completely undesirable option, especially as more often than not you don't know what you're getting because pictures are fake (and let's be honest, most times the girl would be worse than the pics). Instead we should take advantage of the fact of being in a country where there is a middle ground between girlfriend and prostitution, one that has less moral stigma and many girls are intrigued by.
For those looking for a fast pop after a business meeting this doesn't help, but if you want to find a smoking hot 8-10 18-year old who you can spend a weekend in bed and around town with, this is the best method I've found. One-pop hot escorts are available in every major city in the world, but this second option is the one I think many are coming to Ukraine for. The big difference is on mamba you are limited to a small number of girls who are actively seeking love, sex, and foreigners mixed in with many fake profiles. On vkontakte there are many fewer fake profiles, and many many more girls, some who might be willing to have a relationship with a foreigner but haven't gone out of their way to seek that out.
Plus I think we need to be smart about these things. The best strategy of course is just to go out to clubs or walk around town and pick up hotties on the street who are attracted to your personality and your body. But most of us are too old or not good-looking enough for that. And many things in Eastern Europe are harder than a decade or more ago, and most of that is due to economic development. This is why I think Ukraine is a much, much better destination than Russia, since the economic disparity is very apparent (Ukraine is like Russia without the gas / oil). But one area where we do have a big advantage over our cousins 15 years ago (foreigners mongering / sex touring in the FSU) is in information technology. Now there are all these girls online. And not just marriage agencies or escort agencies, but normal girls that talk to their friends and sit online every day. Having a foreigner "add" them as a friend is an unexpected event, and many are very intrigued, whereas on mamba it happens to them every day and these are real pros. Now you can pick any small town in Ukraine and find 50-100 smoking hot young women and talk to them from your couch in Cleveland. That was impossible 10 years ago. And many of these girls will be amazed they are chatting with a foreigner (many tell me they are excited as I'm their first foreign friend). Some of these girls (5% maybe) are willing / open to arrange a meeting that basically implies sexual romance (coming to stay with you at a flat in Kiev). These social networks we should use to our advantage. (And note vkontakte. Ru does have an English-language version)
That said plans change and many of these girls break promises or won't show up when you do finally arrive. So you should have backup plans if you're in country for a short while (mamba, clubs, Rio, etc.). But I just think most mongers on here dream about an 18-22 year old who has only had a handful of sexual partners in the past, is amazed to be getting your attention, and wants to try a little adventure that they've never experienced before. A Rio stripper or mamba pro is not at all enticing to me in comparison.
Finally one last thing is couchsurfing. Com. This is a website that has people offering their couches or spare beds to visitors. It is hugely popular in Ukraine, and you can see pictures of the people in their profiles. They verify addresses by mailing you a card with a code to type in, so they know you actually live at that address. In Kiev there are tons of hot women posting profiles, offering places to stay. Many of them want to practice English / French. None of them are pros, but they tend to be a little older (25-35) and I have seen spontaneous romance. If you're on a budget it's an interesting option, and you can probably feel them out by chatting to see if they'd be interested in hosting you for a romantic weekend (with shopping, restaurants, etc. Paid for). I think it might work for someone on a budget, but like I've said I've only seen spontaneous romance with it, and not pre-arranged.
I think I had success with meeting regular girls from Mamba this past summer, but that is relative. I mean I had to spend so much time on Mamba before coming over to Kiev and am not sure if I'm willing to do that again. In fact I stopped using Mamba as soon as I came back from Kiev.
So in the future I might try vkontakte, on which most of girls I know in Kiev are active.
I think I had success with meeting regular girls from Mamba this past summer, but that is relative. I mean I had to spend so much time on Mamba before coming over to Kiev and am not sure if I'm willing to do that again. In fact I stopped using Mamba as soon as I came back from Kiev.
So in the future I might try vkontakte, on which most of girls I know in Kiev are active.Don't have to complain about mamba. All the girls I met through it (and I've met more than a few, be it here in Paris or "on site") were even more attractive in flesh, all charm and witt, and with no materialistic expectations. That said, I much prefer RIR. It is so good that I don't even bother to read messages from 30 yo + women. It is more a "East meets West" site though.
use Mamba only to hook up with regular girls, which is an extremely difficult thing to do for foreignersYour best weapon on mamba (on any other dating site for that matter) is instinct. Your instinct must be sharp enough for choosing the girls you will built the best attraction with. Also (this is a recurrent tip I give) , I couldn't emphasize more about the advantages to show some interest and have some knowledge of Russian culture (literature, architecture, ect). If your target girl knows that you understand a bit Russia (or Ukraine for that matter) , know about her culture and appreciate it, believe me, the other guys, usually culturally totally unaware and who solely want to fuck her, will not be able to compete with you. I've had dozens of time the proof of it. Even on my mamba profile, I put a lot of emphasis on cultural knowledge: my "entering" line is a famous quote of Bulgakov's masterpiece Master & Margarita. Girls love it. It's not a direct ticket to their panties, but it definitely wins me points.
I think I had success with meeting regular girls from Mamba this past summer, but that is relative. I mean I had to spend so much time on Mamba before coming over to Kiev and am not sure if I'm willing to do that again. In fact I stopped using Mamba as soon as I came back from Kiev.
So in the future I might try vkontakte, on which most of girls I know in Kiev are active.Myself personally don't think VK is as good as Mamba for meeting women for "now" sex. If you are looking to date & do things the old fashion slow way. This is a possibility.
I spent weeks networking mainly on VK. & I can say as a Ukrainian lad friend of mine said to me, when I called up a woman & got her name completely wrong. FAIL!
But as one of my buddies here knows I did make 1 mistake, which could of altared the whole affair. So I will go back to the drawing board & re-work the plan at a later date.
& really I put in lots of days hours with messaging. But you really don't need to waste the many hours. If you go to a few nightclubs, search the net for massage parlours, walk the streets & talk with people, you can advance yourself easier & more selectively. Mamba vs Vkon, Mamba wins hands down if you want to get laid now. Vkon more effort time patients.
& really I put in lots of days hours with messaging. But you really don't need to waste the many hours. If you go to a few nightclubs, search the net for massage parlours, walk the streets & talk with people, you can advance yourself easier & more selectively. Mamba vs Vkon, Mamba wins hands down if you want to get laid now. Vkon more effort time patients.Yes I completely agree with all of this. Mamba is better for STR, it's a romance site and many are there for P4P. Even for short term sponsoring it's better, but VK is great because you can find girls open to sponsorship, who have never done it before, it allows you to get those fresh nymphettes, whereas most mamba girls are experienced. Vkontakte is if you want that extra challenge to get a naive 19 year old who's never met a foreigner and will come suck and fuck your brains out in Kiev as an escape from the daily grind in whatever shitty provincial hole she lives in. And let's admit it, that's what travelling to the FSU is all about! Pros and jaded girls you can get in the USA or nearby countries for even cheaper.
I have a girl like this that I've met before and might repeat with. She's 18, studying at a uni in a small town 4 hours from Kiev, studies 5 days a week and works weekends for $18 total for two days of work in a store at the local univermag. She get's $75 a month plus a small stipend, and no time off (busy 7 days a week). She's a solid 7-8, and the idea of going to Kiev on my invitation along with a little spending money during New Year's holiday has her panties wet already. Total cost including taking her out should be less than a night with a Rio girl (and let's be honest, I'm only going to take her out maybe once, then make her cook for me in my apartment). That for me is what it's all about, STR gf experience with a naive but enthusiastic girl who hasn't serviced 100 other mongers (indeed probably fewer than 5 partners total).
Borderland
10-25-11, 21:02
Yes I completely agree with all of this. Mamba is better for STR, it's a romance site and many are there for P4P. Even for short term sponsoring it's better, but VK is great because you can find girls open to sponsorship, who have never done it before, it allows you to get those fresh nymphettes, whereas most mamba girls are experienced. Vkontakte is if you want that extra challenge to get a naive 19 year old who's never met a foreigner and will come suck and fuck your brains out in Kiev as an escape from the daily grind in whatever shitty provincial hole she lives in. And let's admit it, that's what travelling to the FSU is all about! Pros and jaded girls you can get in the USA or nearby countries for even cheaper.
I have a girl like this that I've met before and might repeat with. She's 18, studying at a uni in a small town 4 hours from Kiev, studies 5 days a week and works weekends for $18 total for two days of work in a store at the local univermag. She get's $75 a month plus a small stipend, and no time off (busy 7 days a week). She's a solid 7-8, and the idea of going to Kiev on my invitation along with a little spending money during New Year's holiday has her panties wet already. Total cost
Including taking her out should be less than a night with a Rio girl (and let's be honest, I'm only going to take her out maybe once, then make her cook for me in my apartment). That for me is what it's all about, STR gf experience with a naive but enthusiastic girl who hasn't serviced 100 other mongers (indeed probably fewer than 5 partners total).Great post.
I've been on mamba a few hours a day for the last week getting a feel for it. At first I thought it was going to be a great tool for me to for meet women prior to getting there and setting up a meeting, however now I realize that I just can't be arsed with it. The thing is that you need to commit to putting a lot of hours in chatting shit to lots of girls hoping that one of them turns out to be the nugget of gold amongst all the other flakes, bores and fakes. I usually get decent girls here in the UK or abroad and so it's pretty hard chatting to stuck up average looking Muscovites who seem to have attitude. And whilst that's pretty much the way all the sites work I get the feeling that you have to spend more time looking for a decent girl on mamba then the others. If you're going somewhere for a couple of days then it's probably a useful tool to do some of the groundwork before you arrive but if I was going somewhere for five or more days I wouldn't bother with it as that is plenty of time to get numbers and dates once you're there.
Yes I completely agree with all of this. Mamba is better for STR, it's a romance site and many are there for P4P. Even for short term sponsoring it's better, but VK is great because you can find girls open to sponsorship, who have never done it before, it allows you to get those fresh nymphettes, whereas most mamba girls are experienced. Vkontakte is if you want that extra challenge to get a naive 19 year old who's never met a foreigner and will come suck and fuck your brains out in Kiev as an escape from the daily grind in whatever shitty provincial hole she lives in. And let's admit it, that's what travelling to the FSU is all about! Pros and jaded girls you can get in the USA or nearby countries for even cheaper.
I have a girl like this that I've met before and might repeat with. She's 18, studying at a uni in a small town 4 hours from Kiev, studies 5 days a week and works weekends for $18 total for two days of work in a store at the local univermag. She get's $75 a month plus a small stipend, and no time off (busy 7 days a week). She's a solid 7-8, and the idea of going to Kiev on my invitation along with a little spending money during New Year's holiday has her panties wet already. Total cost including taking her out should be less than a night with a Rio girl (and let's be honest, I'm only going to take her out maybe once, then make her cook for me in my apartment). That for me is what it's all about, STR gf experience with a naive but enthusiastic girl who hasn't serviced 100 other mongers (indeed probably fewer than 5 partners total).My feeling on my mistake was I made a play on VK to slightly younger audiance then what I should of aimed for. 19-20 years old was my 3 week work on VK before landing in Kiev. I aimed solely at Kiev & that age group. My Russian is non existent so I was looking to Kiev, instead of out. I've been aware for a long time about out of town girls, women in other cities coming to see you for the right offer or proposal. However my focused attention has been told. What I have gained is many contacts that as you've mentioned want to meet this english man for the first time. To practice english. To walk me around Kiev. To taunt me with that amazing ass, wiggling back & forth. So I've made quite a few friends, whom some think I'm to old to date (30). Would never sleep with someone for money. Talk about their boyfriends & who they have feelings for. I'm happy though it was obviously not what I was aiming for. On VK you need Russian to really open doors, & the right target groups to aim for.
My feeling on my mistake was I made a play on VK to slightly younger audiance then what I should of aimed for. 19-20 years old was my 3 week work on VK before landing in Kiev. I aimed solely at Kiev & that age group. My Russian is non existent so I was looking to Kiev, instead of out. I've been aware for a long time about out of town girls, women in other cities coming to see you for the right offer or proposal. However my focused attention has been told. What I have gained is many contacts that as you've mentioned want to meet this english man for the first time. To practice english. To walk me around Kiev. To taunt me with that amazing ass, wiggling back & forth. So I've made quite a few friends, whom some think I'm to old to date (30). Would never sleep with someone for money. Talk about their boyfriends & who they have feelings for. I'm happy though it was obviously not what I was aiming for. On VK you need Russian to really open doors, & the right target groups to aim for.Again note: I have quite a few people left to meet over the weeks to come from VK. So far I have not slept with any of the ladies I have met there. Met 7 or 8 people so far be they by self or with friend.
What I have gained is many contacts that as you've mentioned want to meet this english man for the first time. To practice english. To walk me around Kiev. To taunt me with that amazing ass, wiggling back & forth. So I've made quite a few friends, whom some think I'm to old to date (30). Would never sleep with someone for money.
Again note: I have quite a few people left to meet over the weeks to come from VK. So far I have not slept with any of the ladies I have met there. Met 7 or 8 people so far be they by self or with friend.
You're right that I forgot to mention vkontakte has the big caveat that since it's a normal social networking site, women aren't expecting to be speaking English and many don't. You're better off having an opener that is in Russian, even if it's just a copy/paste from google translate.
You can spend a lot of time talking to young hunnies who are wanting to just be entertained and have a foreign friend. Turning that into sex isn't easy. Thats why what I said before, asking them to come stay with you and you will take care of them is the way to go. That way you are implying you want to have sex, you are making it into a sexual conversation. Many will get offended and turn your offer down, but still want to meet up at a cafe or a walk. Don't meet with these girls. You need a strategy where you can tell online which girls might be open to a sexual relationship. Even then it's not guaranteed, but you're at least getting odds of 50% or something once you're in country, whereas most of these Ukrainian girls will happily have you chat them up and pay the bill without ever giving you anything.
The best strategy is talking to girls in small towns around Kiev, because they know how to get to Kiev and can probably come for a weekend if they really wanted to. They also tend to be poorer, which lets be honest is always a factor since they don't have many experiences and are at least open to adventure (if not outright cash). Since they're not in Kiev, they'll need a place to stay and so it's natural for you to invite them to stay with you. This is win-win for you because you are getting more pliable women (girls in Kiev are more savvy) and you're basically guaranteed sex if they come stay with you unless you just totally wimp out and sleep on the couch or something. There's no awkward end of night "closing" where you are trying to get them to come home with you.
Since I'm revealing all my secrets I will go ahead and say the big payoff for me is to meet girls in the provinces, occasionally getting one night stands. Then on my next trip invite ones I've already met to come to Kiev for a few days. After that I go out to the provinces again. What this does is removes the problem many girls have of going and staying with someone they've never met. If you came across as a gentlemen in the provinces, your odds are good that if she's into you she'll come and stay. If you really hit on girls hardcore in the provinces you can get 5-10 contacts a day. So just 3-4 days of going to some town will get you enough that you'll have someone who can come to you in Kiev next time. You should always say you're going for business, and that this next time you're only going to be in Kiev a few days for business meetings, but you really want to see her and you'll be free for the weekend, can she come visit?
Kiev girls are harder to get for one night stands, they'll want to just walk with you during the day or sit in a cafe if it's winter, except for those in bars/clubs that might be down for a one night stand. But those you shouldn't meet online anyways.
If you're focusing just on freebies and you have limited time I wouldn't do anything on the internet at all. Your best bet is always going to be night game, going to clubs / bars and working on girls. The reason is that it's a self-selecting group whereas online many of the girls aren't available to be gamed and fucked, no matter how suave you are.
I also think you can't get past the economics of it. In the West women are so dominant that the best strategy is to play hard ball and never give them a dime. But in Ukraine women know this game and unless they're over 25 you basically have to pay them for sex, whether it's gifts, travel, or clubs/restaurants. Since Ukraine is so cheap I don't know why you wouldn't do this. Approaching a 22 year old accountant in the US is very different than a 19 year old student in Kiev. Some of the same strategies apply, some don't.
Of course you don't want to get fleeced. You need to make her understand you see what she is doing, that you understand her wants and desires and she must fulfill yours before she can get hers. That's the only way to have her respect you. In the US the strategy is to never shell out for girls, especially on the first night. Buying drinks almost never works. But in Ukraine many girls literally don't have the money to go to a club in the first place, so they won't be doing anything without you. You need to take her along and pay for her, but only pay for what you want. My general rule is I ask a girl before we go out if she understands she is going to be my girl tonight, and that while she is with me I will take care of her and pay for her, but only what I choose. I might ask her what cocktail she wants, then go ahead and order her something else. I NEVER let girls order at a club/restaurant and then pay for it. When that happens I tell them they ordered so they pay, I don't take orders from women.
Even then I am very hesitant to pay if I can avoid it. That means for most girls not taking them to clubs. Although if she's young and inexperienced you might do it just to impress her. I once took a smoking-hot 18 year old Belarussian to a club in Minsk, and she had never been to a club before so there was no risk of her ditching me. She stayed attached to my arm the entire time not knowing how the whole game worked. But as Doc Skank famously said, you go to a club to meet women not to entertain the ones you already know.
One other exception in terms of paying is if it can help escalation, usually that means by buying alcohol. Buying a few rounds of shots can get a woman more pliable, so it can be a good investment (and at $1/shot in the provinces, why not?!). Even though it's cheap you don't want to get in the mindset of "Fuck it, I'll just pay for anything and everything". While that might only run you $50 all-night in the provinces for food and drinks, it also leads to a loss of respect.
I do this all too often though when I'm drunk and just amazed at how cheap everything is, and I can be the rich guy in the club and sponsor a whole table. I once saw a table of 10 girls (all 17-25) celebrating a birthday with just a meager shot or two of vodka each and sharing some juice. I found a waitress, ordered them a bunch of fruit, ice cream, various (cheap) cocktails, champagne, more vodka, a hookah, and a beer for me. When it started being delivered I went over and sat with them. I was the hit of the party, talking in my okay but accented Russian about all kinds of things, getting dances with many of them and kisses from a few too. Of course this is a terrible strategy as the group was too big to isolate one, let alone take one home (impossible with the others cockblocking). So it was a total bust, but the entire bill was something like $60 (and I had another 5-6 beers).
Sometimes it's worth it to have a night like that just to boost your confidence, even if you don't get laid.
The easiest freebies of course are the sex-starved 25+ group (some of them moms, some not) who just want a good time and often don't expect anything in return (in my experience they will ofthen pay YOU for sex in terms of feeding you, treating you well, showing you around).
Prosal,
Thanks for the great tip. I have studied Russian a little and also believe I am well aware of Slavic culture but have not put it into good use. So I'll try.
You're right that I forgot to mention vkontakte has the big caveat that since it's a normal social networking site, women aren't expecting to be speaking English and many don't. You're better off having an opener that is in Russian, even if it's just a copy / paste from google translate.
You can spend a lot of time talking to young hunnies who are wanting to just be entertained and have a foreign friend. Turning that into sex isn't easy. Thats why what I said before, asking them to come stay with you and you will take care of them is the way to go. That way you are implying you want to have sex, you are making it into a sexual conversation. Many will get offended and turn your offer down, but still want to meet up at a cafe or a walk. Don't meet with these girls. You need a strategy where you can tell online which girls might be open to a sexual relationship. Even then it's not guaranteed, but you're at least getting odds of 50% or something once you're in country, whereas most of these Ukrainian girls will happily have you chat them up and pay the bill without ever giving you anything.
The best strategy is talking to girls in small towns around Kiev, because they know how to get to Kiev and can probably come for a weekend if they really wanted to. They also tend to be poorer, which lets be honest is always a factor since they don't have many experiences and are at least open to adventure (if not outright cash). Since they're not in Kiev, they'll need a place to stay and so it's natural for you to invite them to stay with you. This is win-win for you because you are getting more pliable women (girls in Kiev are more savvy) and you're basically guaranteed sex if they come stay with you unless you just totally wimp out and sleep on the couch or something. There's no awkward end of night "closing" where you are trying to get them to come home with you.
Since I'm revealing all my secrets I will go ahead and say the big payoff for me is to meet girls in the provinces, occasionally getting one night stands. Then on my next trip invite ones I've already met to come to Kiev for a few days. After that I go out to the provinces again. What this does is removes the problem many girls have of going and staying with someone they've never met. If you came across as a gentlemen in the provinces, your odds are good that if she's into you she'll come and stay. If you really hit on girls hardcore in the provinces you can get 5-10 contacts a day. So just 3-4 days of going to some town will get you enough that you'll have someone who can come to you in Kiev next time. You should always say you're going for business, and that this next time you're only going to be in Kiev a few days for business meetings, but you really want to see her and you'll be free for the weekend, can she come visit?
Kiev girls are harder to get for one night stands, they'll want to just walk with you during the day or sit in a cafe if it's winter, except for those in bars / clubs that might be down for a one night stand. But those you shouldn't meet online anyways.
If you're focusing just on freebies and you have limited time I wouldn't do anything on the internet at all. Your best bet is always going to be night game, going to clubs / bars and working on girls. The reason is that it's a self-selecting group whereas online many of the girls aren't available to be gamed and fucked, no matter how suave you are.
I also think you can't get past the economics of it. In the West women are so dominant that the best strategy is to play hard ball and never give them a dime. But in Ukraine women know this game and unless they're over 25 you basically have to pay them for sex, whether it's gifts, travel, or clubs / restaurants. Since Ukraine is so cheap I don't know why you wouldn't do this. Approaching a 22 year old accountant in the US is very different than a 19 year old student in Kiev. Some of the same strategies apply, some don't.
Of course you don't want to get fleeced. You need to make her understand you see what she is doing, that you understand her wants and desires and she must fulfill yours before she can get hers. That's the only way to have her respect you. In the US the strategy is to never shell out for girls, especially on the first night. Buying drinks almost never works. But in Ukraine many girls literally don't have the money to go to a club in the first place, so they won't be doing anything without you. You need to take her along and pay for her, but only pay for what you want. My general rule is I ask a girl before we go out if she understands she is going to be my girl tonight, and that while she is with me I will take care of her and pay for her, but only what I choose. I might ask her what cocktail she wants, then go ahead and order her something else. I NEVER let girls order at a club / restaurant and then pay for it. When that happens I tell them they ordered so they pay, I don't take orders from women.
Even then I am very hesitant to pay if I can avoid it. That means for most girls not taking them to clubs. Although if she's young and inexperienced you might do it just to impress her. I once took a smoking-hot 18 year old Belarussian to a club in Minsk, and she had never been to a club before so there was no risk of her ditching me. She stayed attached to my arm the entire time not knowing how the whole game worked. But as Doc Skank famously said, you go to a club to meet women not to entertain the ones you already know.
One other exception in terms of paying is if it can help escalation, usually that means by buying alcohol. Buying a few rounds of shots can get a woman more pliable, so it can be a good investment (and at $1 / shot in the provinces, why not?). Even though it's cheap you don't want to get in the mindset of "Fuck it, I'll just pay for anything and everything". While that might only run you $50 all-night in the provinces for food and drinks, it also leads to a loss of respect.
I do this all too often though when I'm drunk and just amazed at how cheap everything is, and I can be the rich guy in the club and sponsor a whole table. I once saw a table of 10 girls (all 17-25) celebrating a birthday with just a meager shot or two of vodka each and sharing some juice. I found a waitress, ordered them a bunch of fruit, ice cream, various (cheap) cocktails, champagne, more vodka, a hookah, and a beer for me. When it started being delivered I went over and sat with them. I was the hit of the party, talking in my okay but accented Russian about all kinds of things, getting dances with many of them and kisses from a few too. Of course this is a terrible strategy as the group was too big to isolate one, let alone take one home (impossible with the others cockblocking). So it was a total bust, but the entire bill was something like $60 (and I had another 5-6 beers).
Sometimes it's worth it to have a night like that just to boost your confidence, even if you don't get laid.
The easiest freebies of course are the sex-starved 25+ group (some of them moms, some not) who just want a good time and often don't expect anything in return (in my experience they will ofthen pay YOU for sex in terms of feeding you, treating you well, showing you around).
Wow, what a thrilling read it was! Thanks! I wish I knew how to nominate this to the Reports of Distinction.
When you say you go to provinces, which towns are you talking about? And what business do you say you have in those little towns?
Actually, I'm not sure if I have expertise to go into the Kiev provinces by myself. I've only been to big cities such as Lviv, Odessa and cities in Crimea.
Angus Magee
10-26-11, 07:20
Wow, what a thrilling read it was! Thanks! I wish I knew how to nominate this to the Reports of Distinction.Nominate for the RoD? Just go to the thread and click ad report. Then ad the report, or a link to it.
Wow, what a thrilling read it was! Thanks! I wish I knew how to nominate this to the Reports of Distinction.
When you say you go to provinces, which towns are you talking about? And what business do you say you have in those little towns?
Actually, I'm not sure if I have expertise to go into the Kiev provinces by myself. I've only been to big cities such as Lviv, Odessa and cities in Crimea.Not thrilling, there have been many better posts on here.
As to locales, like I said in the Russian forum, go for any cities around 300, 000. Rivne, Ternopil, Sumy, etc. The bigger cities have their own special dynamic (Kiev, Odessa, Lviv, Kharkiv, even Dnepro and Donetsk). If you are looking for towns around Kiev to invite girls I would suggest Chernigov (obvious) as it has a very low income level even by Ukrainian standards, almost the lowest the in the country. And it is just 2.5 hours or so by elektrichka which should be about $3 each way. Also try Bela Tserkov.
Nominate for the RoD? Just go to the thread and click ad report. Then ad the report, or a link to it.I guess I must be dumb, but which one is the link to Latexian2's report 8729?
Angus Magee
10-26-11, 10:54
I guess I must be dumb, but which one is the link to Latexian2's report 8729?If you go to the top right hand side of a report you will see a number. Open this in a new tab and the url will take the person directly to that post when posted as a link.
So: http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1210344&viewfull=1#post1210344
This is the link to the post in question.
AM
As to locales, like I said in the Russian forum, go for any cities around 300, 000. Rivne, Ternopil, Sumy, etc.You never had problems with local thugs in provinces?
I think a 300 000 ukrainian (or Russian) city can become VERY small if some locals flatheads have targeted you because you've missed up with the "wrong" girl. There's in those provinces people with whom you REALLY don't want any trouble. Local thugs HATE when foreigners try to steal "their" women. Worth being very careful if pissing on their shoes, on their home turf.
Not thrilling, there have been many better posts on here.
As to locales, like I said in the Russian forum, go for any cities around 300, 000. Rivne, Ternopil, Sumy, etc. The bigger cities have their own special dynamic (Kiev, Odessa, Lviv, Kharkiv, even Dnepro and Donetsk). If you are looking for towns around Kiev to invite girls I would suggest Chernigov (obvious) as it has a very low income level even by Ukrainian standards, almost the lowest the in the country. And it is just 2. 5 hours or so by elektrichka which should be about $3 each way. Also try Bela Tserkov.Thanks for your recomendations Do you have good experiences with Dnepropetrovsk? I was there and some nice student type or Non Pro, but was not easy for me to find Pros or agencies escorts, do you know some there?
You're right that I forgot to mention vkontakte has the big caveat that since it's a normal social networking site, women aren't expecting to be speaking English and many don't. You're better off having an opener that is in Russian, even if it's just a copy / paste from google translate.
You can spend a lot of time talking to young hunnies who are wanting to just be entertained and have a foreign friend. Turning that into sex isn't easy. Thats why what I said before, asking them to come stay with you and you will take care of them is the way to go. That way you are implying you want to have sex, you are making it into a sexual conversation. Many will get offended and turn your offer down, but still want to meet up at a cafe or a walk. Don't meet with these girls. You need a strategy where you can tell online which girls might be open to a sexual relationship. Even then it's not guaranteed, but you're at least getting odds of 50% or something once you're in country, whereas most of these Ukrainian girls will happily have you chat them up and pay the bill without ever giving you anything.
The best strategy is talking to girls in small towns around Kiev, because they know how to get to Kiev and can probably come for a weekend if they really wanted to. They also tend to be poorer, which lets be honest is always a factor since they don't have many experiences and are at least open to adventure (if not outright cash). Since they're not in Kiev, they'll need a place to stay and so it's natural for you to invite them to stay with you. This is win-win for you because you are getting more pliable women (girls in Kiev are more savvy) and you're basically guaranteed sex if they come stay with you unless you just totally wimp out and sleep on the couch or something. There's no awkward end of night "closing" where you are trying to get them to come home with you.
Since I'm revealing all my secrets I will go ahead and say the big payoff for me is to meet girls in the provinces, occasionally getting one night stands. Then on my next trip invite ones I've already met to come to Kiev for a few days. After that I go out to the provinces again. What this does is removes the problem many girls have of going and staying with someone they've never met. If you came across as a gentlemen in the provinces, your odds are good that if she's into you she'll come and stay. If you really hit on girls hardcore in the provinces you can get 5-10 contacts a day. So just 3-4 days of going to some town will get you enough that you'll have someone who can come to you in Kiev next time. You should always say you're going for business, and that this next time you're only going to be in Kiev a few days for business meetings, but you really want to see her and you'll be free for the weekend, can she come visit?
Kiev girls are harder to get for one night stands, they'll want to just walk with you during the day or sit in a cafe if it's winter, except for those in bars / clubs that might be down for a one night stand. But those you shouldn't meet online anyways.
If you're focusing just on freebies and you have limited time I wouldn't do anything on the internet at all. Your best bet is always going to be night game, going to clubs / bars and working on girls. The reason is that it's a self-selecting group whereas online many of the girls aren't available to be gamed and fucked, no matter how suave you are.
I also think you can't get past the economics of it. In the West women are so dominant that the best strategy is to play hard ball and never give them a dime. But in Ukraine women know this game and unless they're over 25 you basically have to pay them for sex, whether it's gifts, travel, or clubs / restaurants. Since Ukraine is so cheap I don't know why you wouldn't do this. Approaching a 22 year old accountant in the US is very different than a 19 year old student in Kiev. Some of the same strategies apply, some don't.
Of course you don't want to get fleeced. You need to make her understand you see what she is doing, that you understand her wants and desires and she must fulfill yours before she can get hers. That's the only way to have her respect you. In the US the strategy is to never shell out for girls, especially on the first night. Buying drinks almost never works. But in Ukraine many girls literally don't have the money to go to a club in the first place, so they won't be doing anything without you. You need to take her along and pay for her, but only pay for what you want. My general rule is I ask a girl before we go out if she understands she is going to be my girl tonight, and that while she is with me I will take care of her and pay for her, but only what I choose. I might ask her what cocktail she wants, then go ahead and order her something else. I NEVER let girls order at a club / restaurant and then pay for it. When that happens I tell them they ordered so they pay, I don't take orders from women.
Even then I am very hesitant to pay if I can avoid it. That means for most girls not taking them to clubs. Although if she's young and inexperienced you might do it just to impress her. I once took a smoking-hot 18 year old Belarussian to a club in Minsk, and she had never been to a club before so there was no risk of her ditching me. She stayed attached to my arm the entire time not knowing how the whole game worked. But as Doc Skank famously said, you go to a club to meet women not to entertain the ones you already know.
One other exception in terms of paying is if it can help escalation, usually that means by buying alcohol. Buying a few rounds of shots can get a woman more pliable, so it can be a good investment (and at $1 / shot in the provinces, why not?). Even though it's cheap you don't want to get in the mindset of "Fuck it, I'll just pay for anything and everything". While that might only run you $50 all-night in the provinces for food and drinks, it also leads to a loss of respect.
I do this all too often though when I'm drunk and just amazed at how cheap everything is, and I can be the rich guy in the club and sponsor a whole table. I once saw a table of 10 girls (all 17-25) celebrating a birthday with just a meager shot or two of vodka each and sharing some juice. I found a waitress, ordered them a bunch of fruit, ice cream, various (cheap) cocktails, champagne, more vodka, a hookah, and a beer for me. When it started being delivered I went over and sat with them. I was the hit of the party, talking in my okay but accented Russian about all kinds of things, getting dances with many of them and kisses from a few too. Of course this is a terrible strategy as the group was too big to isolate one, let alone take one home (impossible with the others cockblocking). So it was a total bust, but the entire bill was something like $60 (and I had another 5-6 beers).
Sometimes it's worth it to have a night like that just to boost your confidence, even if you don't get laid.
The easiest freebies of course are the sex-starved 25+ group (some of them moms, some not) who just want a good time and often don't expect anything in return (in my experience they will ofthen pay YOU for sex in terms of feeding you, treating you well, showing you around).Yes that was an excellent read!
That is the evolution I am looking at as I develop my time here. One step at a time. In summer when I return that is exactly what I will add to my list of things to do, venture with a few lad's preferably from ISG or if not my ukr translator friends. & make summer a little more interesting. But I'm in no rush as overall my time here is closing on 3 months total. So I'm happy with almost everything thats coming & going. Of course Russian I feel is the real key to unbelieveable success at victory rates. My Russian lessons are commencing soon.
& I suppose another way to get a visa in Ukr is to start learning Russian for a year, which commences before you start your degree in ukr. So you can get a student visa? Then that would allow you to reside legally for a year. If after you decided to pull out of your course. I'm not 100 % on this though a ukr was telling me this is what the turkish do before they begin their degrees. They need to speak the lingo.
Mamba- waste of time, but I will try again in my next trip? Maybe if I have time.
BEST BODY- the girl from RIO but she did not give me the best service, gave a very average CBJ.
BEST SERVICE- the only girl I met from mamba, she assured me her photos on the site were real, very pretty girl, I saw her 2 times.
Some girls emailed me their real photos (if those were really their real photos) but they did not look good so I didn't see them.
I made it clear to mamba girls that I must see their real photos before they come to me to make sure I like them otherwise I may not keep them
Saw 2 girls from agencies. They were fine.
Thats all.
Did not get a a chance to try D'Lux, maybe next year.
BTW- can you take home the waitress at RIO?
There was a blond waitress I liked)
It seems in Kiev airport there are now 2 terminals and they are making 2 more terminals (I guess for soccer games in 2012)
C is for incoming flights.
F is for outgoing flights.
The fukking driver who drove me to the airport did not know and kept asking C or F, I told him just drive there I will figure it out.
I think the C and F were in the same complex before but now they are separate
Borderland
10-26-11, 22:07
Yes that was an excellent read!
That is the evolution I am looking at as I develop my time here. One step at a time. In summer when I return that is exactly what I will add to my list of things to do, venture with a few lad's preferably from ISG or if not my ukr translator friends. & make summer a little more interesting. But I'm in no rush as overall my time here is closing on 3 months total. So I'm happy with almost everything thats coming & going. Of course Russian I feel is the real key to unbelieveable success at victory rates. My Russian lessons are commencing soon.
& I suppose another way to get a visa in Ukr is to start learning Russian for a year, which commences before you start your degree in ukr. So you can get a student visa? Then that would allow you to reside legally for a year. If after you decided to pull out of your course. I'm not 100 % on this though a ukr was telling me this is what the turkish do before they begin their
Degrees. They need to speak the lingo.You're talking about the preparatory course all non Russian speakers must take (and pass) before being accepted on the university course you wish to study. I have a few friends who did it at Lomonosov and it's pretty intense, you have to be willing to put a lot of effort in on your own after class but I have to admit, their Russian after just six months was absolutely shit hot! In fact it was funny because we went to a pub and met two girls who had just graduated from Oxford with a Russian degree and they blew them out of the water, I kid you not. Russian is a very, very difficult language to master. I went and studied it for two months in Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan with the aim of nailing the grammar (I already spoke decent Russian but without caring too much for the grammar) and it can be a soul destroying endeavor because there is so much too learn and it's a real struggle to nail it (not trying to put you off here. Russian being a case based language requires you to change the ending of pretty much every word in a sentence so you're constantly having to think about which of the cases you need to use and the corresponding endings. Fuuuuuuuuuuuuck! To cut to the chase, my point is that if you're only trying to learn it to pull women (that was my only reason for studying it) or for a visa you'll almost certainly never master it or you'll get to a level where you can chat to women, which takes about three months, and then quit the course (that's what I did ). The people who succeed and master it are the people motivated by work or by their desire to get accepted on the university course proper (that's been my experience of the people I know anyway ).
Learning Russian open many doors with the women in the FSU but you've still got to have the skills to close the deals. I've found it especially useful with day game, cold approaches with shop girls and hired hands etc. It's a big DHV and immediately sets you apart from the average non Russian speaking foreigner which intrigues the women to want to know what you're all
About. It also allows you to understand how the dating game works in the country already (between the natives) and you can then tweak that to your own style whilst still keeping within the ground rules that she will be comfortable with. Once you are good enough in Russian then you can create your own stack of routines in the language (I. E one DHV story, a good opinion opener, a few negs, a joke. All the old MM techniques. And then you'll have a great time, trust me. However the fact is that my best nights out and my most memorable conquests and failures have been with women who spoke very good English. It just means I can play the games in the field without having to be thinking about how to say something and missing the nuances in her replies. Good luck on the course anyway, I promise you that whatever effort you put in, you'll be rewarded for ten times over in the field.
Letexian: I really enjoyed your post and the part regarding buying girls drinks. My policy over there has always been the opposite to what it is here a home. In the UK I don't buy girls drinks until I'm in a relationship with them for the obvious reasons of value etc. However in the FSU I turn that the other way round. If I like a girl over there and decide I would like to have some kind of longer term relationship (longer then a couple of lays in other words) with her I usually spend big in the beginning but then very very rarely again in our relationship. My thinking being that taking a girl out for a nice meal and then a top club with drinks is a massive DHV over there because so few men can afford to do it to them usually (unlike in the west where most can afford a big night out and the girl has done it a thousand times ). The girls there want to know IF you can afford to do those kind of things, and once you've shown that you can and will on certain occasions, you need not do it again except as a reward for some kind of good behavior or just because you want to have a great night out with her. I think your club story illustrates the point: buying the table of girls drinks in the west they would have made you look beta and they would have tried to milk you for more, but over there you doing that turned you from just another guy into being 'The Man' and they rewarded you for it with make outs and numbers. I'm not saying that you should buy everyone a drink but merely that we don't have to be so uptight about it as we are in our own countries. I will admit however that I usually go out on the pull in provincial towns where a little bit of flash can impress, I'm willing to concede that with big city girls it might be as counter productive as in the west.
Borderland
10-26-11, 23:43
Sorry, my post below contains a load of abbreviations that will mean nothing to most readers. I'll knock them on the head in future.
I will admit however that I usually go out on the pull in provincial towns where a little bit of flash can impress, I'm willing to concede that with big city girls it might be as counter productive as in the west.I think this is exactly right. In Kiev I don't think you're going to impress many chicks with your pocketbook unless you're really a big spender. There are clubs where they've seen all that before. In the small towns I've been told that most guys there can't afford to buy a girl a cocktail. I mean going out and spending more than $10 or so is a big night for a Ukrainian guy in a small town making $150 a month. They tend to stick to vodka / beer. So dropping $60 on a table of girls is actually a pretty big deal that most Ukrainian guys can't afford.
Of course the downside is the small town effect where the girls might be embarrassed to be seen with you, and if she goes home with you from a club everyone will know. You have to offer her a way to be discrete. The strategy that worked for me better is to meet girls on the street or at a club, and then organize a party at your place on the next day. Even then it's not guaranteed and once the girl invited guys (even though I told her not to invite any guys) and they ruined the whole, the police ended up coming.
The craziest reactions I got was at a town of about 80, 000 in Russia way out in the middle of nowhere almost in Siberia, I'm talking a 5 hour train / bus to a medium-sized city with an airport. Basically zero foreigners there, I met the main English language translator there a woman of about 35 who usually helps the multinationals when they send a representative and she said there are like 5-6 foreigners a year that come. In Ukraine you've got the peace corps volunteers that you run into sometimes in the smaller towns, and many Ukrainians have met them. But in that small town in Russia I was like a rock star, I was interviewed on the local TV station, invited to participate in a cooking show (I don't cook!) and was a huge hit at the local "club" which wasn't much to speak of, just an empty room with bottles of beer on the wall. Even with all that though I didn't manage to get laid, although I was only there for two nights. It was still fun as hell though, probably the best time I've had in a small town. I have a good Russian friend living there and he showed me around and he wasn't looking for action so it didn't give me much opportunity. I'm going to go visit him again in January, so maybe it will happen this time.
You never had problems with local thugs in provinces?
I think a 300 000 ukrainian (or Russian) city can become VERY small if some locals flatheads have targeted you because you've missed up with the "wrong" girl. There's in those provinces people with whom you REALLY don't want any trouble. Local thugs HATE when foreigners try to steal "their" women. Worth being very careful if pissing on their shoes, on their home turf.Only once did I have any problems, and some girls stepped in and called the police. But in general I really haven't had much trouble. The key is to always hit on girls alone, or groups of girls. A few times I have had some guy come and tell me one of the girls is his girlfriend and in those situations I try to be friendly, it helps if you speak Russian. That is I immediately defer to the guy saying I had no idea, offer to buy him a drink, etc. If he's super drunk or something I'd probably just get the hell out as fast as possible though.
Also I find that in the provinces there is often an "old people's club" which is where the 21-60 crowd hangs out, and the young people's club which is often something like 15-25. Naturally since I'm a sleazeball I go to the young people's club which tends to be more upscale in terms of decor and less drunken fist fights. I lived in provincial Russia for half a year and there was one club that always had drunk and beliigerant Russian guys, and you'd often see blood on the walls in the bathroom. But other clubs were very orderly and most people wouldn't try anything.
I'm also a big guy so those scrawny 18 year olds aren't really a problem. I do agree that it is always a fear of mine to see groups of drunk guys on the streets at night as I'm walking by. That's why I try only to take taxis past dark or not to say too much. Also in winter if you're wearing a coat / hat you blend in much more than in summer in my experience.
But in general all of these problems I think are worse in Russia then Ukraine because nationalism is strongly anti-Western and anti-foreigner in Russia. St. Pete is actually the worst, I think I have about 10 friends now who have been beat up or mugged by police, one of them even got "escorted" him by the police only to have them rob his apartment (computer, cash, passport, etc.). I haven't heard such stories in Ukraine, only the typical ones in Kiev like the cash lying on the street scam where you pick up the money and someone comes and says it's theirs but it's not all their so you owe them $100 or whatever.
The possibility of violence this is a real issue that one should be careful of. I guess after living in Russia for so long I've gotten good at seeing these problems coming before they hit you, so you know how to get out of those situations. And it's true you sometimes have to be weak and just give the girl you're entertaining away; I'm all for standing up to tough guys but when you're one foreigner in a club of 50 Ukrainians and a group of them comes up to you you should just defuse the situation as fast as you can even if it means just leaving the club immediately. (That only happened to me once in 2 years -- really about the same as in a small town in the US).
But in Ukraine I think you'd be surprised that most young guys at a club are more interested in being the guy chilling with the foreigner than they are getting pissed at you. That is being with you gives them status and better prospects with the ladies. Nine times out of then that's what I've experienced, and it often gets really annoying because these guys won't leave you alone and can end up cockblocking you.
But in Ukraine I think you'd be surprised that most young guys at a club are more interested in being the guy chilling with the foreigner than they are getting pissed at you. That is being with you gives them status and better prospects with the ladies. Nine times out of then that's what I've experienced, and it often gets really annoying because these guys won't leave you alone and can end up cockblocking you.Turning the subject around here, but when I'm in Kiev, guys often come up to me on street and ask me if I speak English. Thinking they only want to scam me, I typically just shrug them off or say "go away," and they leave saying "f**k off" or whatever in broken English. Anybody know what they want?
Borderland
10-27-11, 08:18
But in Ukraine I think you'd be surprised that most young guys at a club are more interested in being the guy chilling with the foreigner than they are getting pissed at you. That is being with you gives them status and better prospects with the ladies. Nine times out of then that's what I've experienced, and it often gets really annoying because these guys won't leave you alone and can end up cockblocking you.This. Been in that situation ten times more then I have been threatened or hassled.
I've never had a single problem in Russia, provinces or cities, however I'm white. It's sad to say that if you're Asian looking or black you might, might, get a bit more hassle. Not in the daytime walking about going to cafes etc. But at night time in clubs where people are drunk someone might say something, especially if you're doing well with the girls there. I don't like to say that because I've got nothing but praise for Russians, love them to bits, but there is an element in their society that is abhorrent I've just been lucky enough to never have crossed swords with it.
I don't like to say that because I've got nothing but praise for Russians, love them to bits, but there is an element in their society that is abhorrent I've just been lucky enough to never have crossed swords with it.Russians (or Ukrainians for that matter) can pass from nice to berserk in a heartbeat. This is admittedly a bad side of their character. Anyhow you guys are lucky. Dozens times in FSU I've had words with drunk guys becoming territory at the bar. That said it was most often with drunk Italians or Turks, who usually can't hold their liquor.
I've been involved in brawls two or three times, and in Tashkent even had a cornea crack that obliged me to go to the eye-clinic twice a day during one week to plaster my eye and to endure a bandage covering half of my face. Positive side is that during that week, girls pampered me like never. (smilie)
Of course the downside is the small town effect where the girls might be embarrassed to be seen with you, and if she goes home with you from a club everyone will know.From my (admittedly small) experience of provinces, what is surprising is that many of the girls—especially the ones that have been abroad and have a bit of stature—have very little respect for their fellow countrymen and don't care what they think. Of course, they won't be seen dead with a turk or italian cheapo sex-tourist, but if you're a decent looking westerner that looks "serious" and dressed with rafinement and style, it is even a matter of prestige for them.
Toptraveler1
10-27-11, 20:53
Only once did I have any problems, and some girls stepped in and called the police. But in general I really haven't had much trouble. The key is to always hit on girls alone, or groups of girls. A few times I have had some guy come and tell me one of the girls is his girlfriend and in those situations I try to be friendly, it helps if you speak Russian. That is I immediately defer to the guy saying I had no idea, offer to buy him a drink, etc. If he's super drunk or something I'd probably just get the hell out as fast as possible though.
Also I find that in the provinces there is often an "old people's club" which is where the 21-60 crowd hangs out, and the young people's club which is often something like 15-25. Naturally since I'm a sleazeball I go to the young people's club which tends to be more upscale in terms of decor and less drunken fist fights. I lived in provincial Russia for half a year and there was one club that always had drunk and beliigerant Russian guys, and you'd often see blood on the walls in the bathroom. But other clubs were very orderly and most people wouldn't try anything.
I'm also a big guy so those scrawny 18 year olds aren't really a problem. I do agree that it is always a fear of mine to see groups of drunk guys on the streets at night as I'm walking by. That's why I try only to take taxis past dark or not to say too much. Also in winter if you're wearing a coat / hat you blend in much more than in summer in my experience.
But in general all of these problems I think are worse in Russia then Ukraine because nationalism is strongly anti-Western and anti-foreigner in Russia. St. Pete is actually the worst, I think I have about 10 friends now who have been beat up or mugged by police, one of them even got "escorted" him by the police only to have them rob his apartment (computer, cash, passport, etc.). I haven't heard such stories in Ukraine, only the typical ones in Kiev like the cash lying on the street scam where you pick up the money and someone comes and says it's theirs but it's not all their so you owe them $100 or whatever.
The possibility of violence this is a real issue that one should be careful of. I guess after living in Russia for so long I've gotten good at seeing these problems coming before they hit you, so you know how to get out of those situations. And it's true you sometimes have to be weak and just give the girl you're entertaining away; I'm all for standing up to tough guys but when you're one foreigner in a club of 50 Ukrainians and a group of them comes up to you you should just defuse the situation as fast as you can even if it means just leaving the club immediately. (That only happened to me once in 2 years. Really about the same as in a small town in the US).
But in Ukraine I think you'd be surprised that most young guys at a club are more interested in being the guy chilling with the foreigner than they are getting pissed at you. That is being with you gives them status and better prospects with the ladies. Nine times out of then that's what I've experienced, and it often gets really annoying because these guys won't leave you alone and can end up cockblocking you.I don't think that we can compare Russian and ukrainian people. Even if they share the same language and almost the same culture they are very different. Ukrainian usually like foreign people and they treat them well. In Russia, especially Russian guys are very agressive and don't like foreign men. I spend few years in Moscow and I just saw some horrible attitudes toward foreign people during nightlife. Today the good thing in Moscow is, as you mentioned, the fact that there are less foreign men compared to the population than in Kiev.
In Russia, especially Russian guys are very agressive and don't like foreign men. I spend few years in Moscow and I just saw some horrible attitudes toward foreign people during nightlife.Sounds weird. Moscow is full of cosmopolitan, worldly, arty, intelligent people. This is not the case of Lugansk or Donetsk. Ukrainian masses are a fairly dumb lot IMO.
Borderland
10-28-11, 14:34
. but if you're a decent looking westerner that looks "serious" and dressed with rafinement and style, it is even a matter of prestige for them.That is such a good point that needs further discussion sometime because some guys just don't get it. They travel to the provinces dressed like they are going to a football match or looking like a backpacker (baggy ill fitting jeans, scruffy shoes etc.) and wonder why they are not doing well. When U-turn up in the provinces you should want your image to say something about you as a person, and the best image is wealth and style. You don't need wealth to succeed, not at all, but you should imply it subtly. A lot of guy's problems meeting devs could be solved by wearing well fitting, stylish clothes that are neat and clean. Russians judge people by their possessions and clothes in particular, they're a very materialistic bunch. Whereas in the west you can be rich but still dress scruffy out of choice or because it's just your style, in Russia that is seriously rare. Rich Russians can't wait to throw away their black caps and get themselves an overly ostentatious Versace shirt. And as we are on holiday we have few ways to show our wealth (we don't have our car with us, can't bring a girl back to our stylish home etc.) so the only thing open to us is our clothes (and gadgets ).
I have a friend who I was in Bishkek with, lovely lad, funny, younger then me, better looking, better Russian BUT he dressed in baggy combats, scruffy converse shoes, non ironed t's, unkempt beard. That look can be quite cool in the west, and does not mean you're financially poor, but over there the result was that not only did he get no action but he totally cockblocked me. Women used to ask me why I hung around with a Bomzh and be reluctant to join us at our table. When you step off the train in a new provincial town in the middle of nowhere it's like you're on stage. Therefore give the girls what they want, give them the fantasy of the stylish, cool westerner come to save them from their drudgery. No woman ever dreams of being swept off her feet by a bin man. You remember the Carly Simon line "You walked into the party like you were stepping of a yacht", that's what I do, I walk into the club, bar, hotel, bank, like I'm the coolest mofo on the planet even though inside I'm riddled with insecurities about my looks etc, and it pays dividends. I'm not saying dressing stylishly will get you laid automatically, but it will help introduce you to ten times more women, and women of a higher quality will certainly be more open to being approached by you.
. In Russia, especially Russian guys are very agressive and don't like foreign men. I spend few years in Moscow and I just saw some horrible attitudes toward foreign people during nightlife.A bit of an over generalisation. I've had nothing but good vibes from Russian men personally, you just need to know how to handle them and be good at pre-empting situations, oh, and not hitting on their women :) Speaking some Russian makes conflict so much rarer I think. I will agree that Ukrainians seem a bit more westernised in their outlook though.
.I've been involved in brawls two or three times, and in Tashkent even had a cornea crack that obliged me to go to the eye-clinic twice a day during one week to plaster my eye and to endure a bandage covering half of my face. Positive side is that during that week, girls pampered me like never. (smilie)Only time I've ever had a fight or threatened has been in Central Asia. The Asian guys there don't seem to be able to hold their beer too well and can get a bit violent when pissed.
Borderland
10-28-11, 14:50
. but if you're a decent looking westerner.I forgot to mention that point: Do you mean 'decent looking' as in facial looks? I would say that looks are not half as important in Russia as they are in the west. Qualities like confidence, alpha behaviour, wealth are much higher on the women's list of priorities. Evidence of this can be seen on the streets of Russian towns where you see such a high number of unbelievably hot looking women walking arm in arm with men who are decidedly below average in the handsomeness stakes.
I would say that looks are not half as important in Russia as they are in the west.+1. Style and clothes are more important than looks. Looks help of course, but it isn't a central theme with Russian / Ukrainian girls. They are undoubtedly some of the most fashion-conscious women on earth. They dress to the tens, and anything less than a similarly stylish and well-groomed guy is not a guy worth fucking. But you need the real stuff. Fake and cheap gets you nowhere, it's a turn-off for 99% of the girls, who are VERY good at gauging what you wear.
. Rich Russians can't wait to throw away their black caps and get themselves an overly ostentatious Versace shirt.That's a bit of a stereotype. Rich Russians with taste and class don't wear obviously labeled clothes. It is very much a gopnik and unclassy thing to be covered head to toe with D&G, Armani or Versace logos, be it in the West or in Russia. That said, in places like Chisinau or Tashkent, this "label" stereotype does still rear its ridiculous head.
Personally I dress in upper-quality and non-monogrammed "casual line" clothing. More precisely, for clubs, something like a dark Zegna or Boss shirt or sweater, stylish vintage Diesel jeans, a labeled belt (only labeled thing I allow myself) , and nice shoes. A nice coat that looks expensive is also something of importance in winter. Bought last year a mink and cashemere Brioni black coat that is a true killer and allowed my some lofty scores. The latest touchscreen mobile phone and the expensive eye-catching watch are also magnets for girls.
Toptraveler1
10-28-11, 18:30
Sounds weird. Moscow is full of cosmopolitan, worldly, arty, intelligent people. This is not the case of Lugansk or Donetsk. Ukrainian masses are a fairly dumb lot IMO.Do not mix things. I compared Moscow and Kiev but also Russian and ukrainian people. I did not talk about Lugansk or Donetsk as I've never been there. I'm talking about the night life in Moscow. Of course there are many intelligent people, artists, writers and intellectuals in Moscow like in any big city in the world. But I'm not sure that we can find a lot of Russian intellectuals in club Che or in any other club in Moscow.
Borderland
10-28-11, 20:26
That's a bit of a stereotype. Rich Russians with taste and class don't wear obviously labeled clothes. It is very much a gopnik and unclassy thing to be covered head to toe with D&G, Armani or Versace logos, be it in the West or in Russia. That said, in places like Chisinau or Tashkent, this "label" stereotype does still rear its ridiculous head.
Personally I dress in upper-quality and non-monogrammed "casual line" clothing. More precisely, for clubs, something like a dark Zegna or Boss shirt or sweater, stylish vintage Diesel jeans, a labeled belt (only labeled thing I allow myself) , and nice shoes. A nice coat that looks expensive is also something of importance in winter. Bought last year a mink and cashemere Brioni black coat that is a true killer and allowed my some lofty scores. The latest touchscreen mobile phone and the expensive eye-catching watch are also magnets for girls.Yes, I was not being overly serious regarding Versace shirts (I think that such ostentatiousness was much more in vogue with the first wave of Russian millionaires then now ). Shirts and jackets etc. that are emblazoned with designer names are just hideously naff and scream out that the wearer is a try hard faker. (Do Armani even make those t-shirts or are they all knock offs?)
As you said, women have an expert eye for evaluating your social standing by your clothes. If you can't afford expensive clothes (and I'm by no means saying you need to wear them to pull but it helps with the supermodel types) then you would be so much better off buying clothes from your local high street retailer (consider having them adjusted by a tailor to suit your physique better) then going for fakes. Fakes are poorly made and don't hang the way well tailored clothes do. You can also spot a person wearing fakes because they look in-congruent. There is no point wearing a fake designer shirt and jeans if you are also using an old Samsung mobile and a pair of sports shoes that have seen better ways and dragging around a cheap Chinese bag. We can spot it, and that certainly means a woman of style and class will be able to. And once she does your value will be almost zero.
I have an interest in fashion and wear some designer clothes but nothing that you would know was designer except by noticing the fit and quality. My outfit in the FSU is a slim fit shirt or RL slim fit polo shirt, a Diesel grey sweater that has a tiny barely readable logo over my left tit, dark blue jeans and a pair of black leather Prada pumps which has the red logo hidden under the laces. I travel with a Louis Vuitton Pegasse 55 rolling suitcase which can be taken on the plane as hand luggage. That does sound naff and will be few people's cup of tea, however in my defence I bought the black version which is very understated and you'd have to know about designer luggage to recognize it as a LV from a distance. I had the luggage label hot stamped with my initials in silver which is understated but gets noticed. What I do need is a better coat, I've seen a Burberry mac that is black with leather sleeves but would be impractical in a Russian winter. I've never considered a fur coat thinking it was a bit feminine however your mink and cashmere coat sounds sublime (no homo :) so I'll keep the idea in mind when I purchase something.
Tasteful designer wear (I use the word designer to mean clothes of impeccable fit and construction as opposed to just labels) will work wonders on the 7's and 8's and will allow you take a shot with more confidence and equal footing to the 9's and, if the opportunity arises, the supermodel 10's.
A great resource for men who just are not into clothes / fashion but would like to get some ideas should check out the 'styleforum. Com' which is a great resource.
And as we are on holiday we have few ways to show our wealth (we don't have our car with us, can't bring a girl back to our stylish home etc.) so the only thing open to us is our clothes (and gadgets ).This is very true and there are a good few conclusions to draw from this for freebies. First is that you should BRING PICTURES of your home / car / city etc. If you have them on a laptop this is a very natural way to ask a girl to come to your place to look at the pictures, and you can show her how you live and she'll start imaging herself in the pictures. This is a very good move. Hell go ahead and tell her you want to come visit while at the same time going for the kiss.
Second gadgets can be great, but don't overdo it. You want to use them as a way to get a girl to sit next to you, or hold her hands, etc. But you're not going to get an introduction due to a gadget, although I once got a number just because a girl in Vladimir saw me talking on a Moto RAZR (back in 2004/2005 I think). She asked to look at it and entered in her number.
Also some gadgets like iPhones / iPads are probably still good in the provinces for drawing attention. But you won't outright impress a girl with one, although I noticed for instance in provincial Russia even in 2008/2009 girls would take my iPhone and try to use it with their fingernails, and it doesn't work (since the screen is capacitive and needs meaty flesh to work). It's obvious that they had never seen a touchscreen before.
But I'm not sure that we can find a lot of Russian intellectuals in club Che or in any other club in Moscow.Hum. I didn't say that one will find a lot of "intellectuals" in Moscow clubs, but that Moscow clubs are swarming with cosmopolitan, worldly, intelligent people. Successful people. Rich people. Elite people. Good looking people. High-powered businessmen, artists, actors and other members of high society. People who simply couldn't care less that you are a foreigner. Your statement of Moscow clubs being filled with gopniki whose only wish is to beat up to death any foreigner showing up was simply silly.
Anyhow, as to compare Ukrainians and Russians, I think that Russians are on the whole considerably smarter and more cultured than Ukrainians.
I also think that in places where sex-tourism is strong, like in Kiev or Chisinau, local guys have a strong and palpable resentment (and sometimes hate) towards sex hungry foreigners.
As you said, women have an expert eye for evaluating your social standing by your clothes.Indeed. But this is not that the girls will see you as a big fat wallett, but as someone correspondingly well-groomed they want to hang out with, have some fun with, and worth to have an adventure with.
Borderland
10-29-11, 16:11
Hell go ahead and tell her you want to come visit while at the same time going for the kiss.Smooth, going to try that.
Showing her your photos is a great idea but you must be careful not to overdo it. Pictures of you leaning on Lamborghini's just looks try hard and will raise suspicions (the girl would wonder why you're in a cheap apartment somewhere in deepest Udmurtia and not Cannes. They already wonder WTF we are doing in these towns as it is ). The best photos are not fake or set up but just of you with your friends having a good time. It immediately gives you the social proof that you're lacking as a lone traveller. You with some good looking women would be good too. Also photos in cool locations so that you can use that to tell her a story about it which will raise your value. You should have a photo of your place of residence too, however not just a picture of your house by itself, that will look try hard. Instead have a picture of you sitting on your sofa (if you have a nice living room) looking good. That way the house is kind of incidental, however she will study it carefully and know that you are a man of quality and that she would feel comfortable visiting you there should you be kind enough to invite her one day (this would be a good picture to use the Latexian kiss strategy I would think ). I also have a couple of pictures in the file that have no value at all to the narrative (I. E out of focus shots, random picture of someone with half their head cropped off) again this just allays any suspicions that I'm bragging or being try hard and just makes the photo file look like any other file people would have on their laptop. This is quite important.
It could in some ways be seen as being a somewhat manipulative tool, however I would never project myself to be anything I'm not or stoop to lying a girl into bed. The idea is just to portray your life in the best possible light whilst discretely glossing over the mundane and the negatives.
Toptraveler1
10-30-11, 00:51
Hum. I didn't say that one will find a lot of "intellectuals" in Moscow clubs, but that Moscow clubs are swarming with cosmopolitan, worldly, intelligent people. Successful people. Rich people. Elite people. Good looking people. High-powered businessmen, artists, actors and other members of high society. People who simply couldn't care less that you are a foreigner. Your statement of Moscow clubs being filled with gopniki whose only wish is to beat up to death any foreigner showing up was simply silly.
Anyhow, as to compare Ukrainians and Russians, I think that Russians are on the whole considerably smarter and more cultured than Ukrainians.
I also think that in places where sex-tourism is strong, like in Kiev or Chisinau, local guys have a strong and palpable resentment (and sometimes hate) towards sex hungry foreigners.Prosal your statement is just emotional and does not make sens! Being rich, sucessful, good looking does not mean tolerant to me. You could also find many rich, sucessful and good looking people in Germany during the 1930s.
I don't know how much time you spent in Moscow to have such opinion about the people in this city and why you are so fascinated by russians but if you speak Russian, something I am sure you do, please just ask the « cosmopolite people » you meet in Moscow –especially people from ex sovietic republics- how they feel in this city and if they feel just safe.
Anyway if I was really thinking that ukrainians are so uncultured and russians are so good looking, worldly, rich and smart, as you do, I'the buy a ticket for Moscow tomorrow morning and would leave Ukraine forever.
By the way I never told that clubs in Moscow are «filled with gopniki whose only wish is to beat up to death any foreigner showing up'. Please read my comments again!
russians are so worldlyThat is a pure fact. The "emerging" Russian middle classes take two to three trips a year on average (WTO numbers).
Anyhow seems that you like to argue. The point was not that Moscow was dangerous to Central Asians economic refugees. Of course it is. The (your) point was about safety in Moscow mid-to upper level clubs. And it is safe. Those clubs are filled with successful young professionals (men and women) who travel a lot and have no resentement or bad feelings towards foreigners. I am french, and can tell you that Russians are fond of french culture (there was some 1 millions Russian tourists that have visited Paris in 2010). I have not the feeling that Ukrainians are equally cultured and worldly. Furthermore, Russia is not touched by sex-tourism as Ukraine or Moldova are. As I said below, the more a place is invaded by sex-tourism, the more disdain (and sometimes hate) towards foreigners is palpable.
BTW you said you "lived a few years in Moscow", but a single search on your past posts reveals only questions about this city, such as "Hello, I need to know if there is any other expat club, except Ché, in Moscow and if there is any where we can dance salsa and "meet" girls?" or "Hello, anybody knows where we can find Toshkas in Moscow?". Strange, indeed. You seem to have a weird agenda.
Note: Having had such a great time during my recent trips to Kiev, I am currently in the process of considering another trip to Kiev, (to include a stopover on the way back home either at an FKK in Vienna or Frankfurt) for the upcoming Thanksgiving holiday weekend November 24 – 28.
The Sex Insurance Policy Pays Dividends == Fun, Fun, Fun on the Way Home From Kiev at FKK Goldentime Vienna
Apparently, judging from the last few pages here this thread is no longer strictly about Kiev, but rather about how to bed devushkas in all the hinterland provinces of Ukraine and Russia. So I will indulge myself by telling about the immense fun I had on the way home from Kiev during my stopover on the evening of Tuesday, October 25 at FKK Goldentime in Vienna (www.goldentime.at). In fact though, it is somewhat relevant to the Kiev vs. FKK comparison analysis I have written about in prior posts.
To be quite honest, my head is simply still spinning from Joanna, the tall sexy 22 yr old Romanian law student with long jet black shiny hair, a cover girl model face and bikini contest winner body, that I spent an hour and a half with in FKK Goldentime on my stopover for 1 night there on my way back home from Kiev. Wow! What an experience!
The session bedrooms there are divided off from the main lounging area of the club by mere curtains, not a door. And on one side of the lounging area the curtains to the bedrooms are quite close to a bunch of couches where people sit.
When I first saw this hottie, Joanna was standing by a bunch of guys sitting on the couches just next to those curtained off session rooms. Those couches are where she and her other Romanian friends hold court. Anyway, I waited until the guys ogling her were distracted and caught her attention with a smile. She came over to me and asked if I wanted to session with her. We spoke for a while, and of course I said yes.
So into the nearby room we went, me catching some hard looks from the guys sitting on the couches there who had been talking to her previously but hadn't made the move on her yet.
Anyway, the session went great and was enhanced by the images of her ass and legs, her truly awesome body, that I could enjoy in the mirrors all around the room during the uncovered blow job and when she was on top cowgirl. I was in good form during our intercourse having taken my Vitamin C beforehand and was really fucking her brains out, when after a long while I heard her moans getting louder and she asked if I was going to come. I said,"What?" She said,"Are you going to come for me, baby?" I said. 'Say it louder. ' She did. I said,"Louder!" And she screamed it. I said 'Don't you want me to fuck you more? ' She smiled and said,"Fuck me, baby". I said "Louder." She said it louder. I said "Louder!" again. She screamed "Fuck me" even louder. I told her,"I want all those guys in the lounging area to hear you screaming. Now scream it louder!" and with that I began slamming her furiously. She was screaming "FUCK ME, OH, FUCK ME, BABY" over and over at the top of her lungs, and I proceeded to hammer her but good, while she did so. Ultimately, as we neared the 1. 5 hour mark, I let loose. We were both laughing at the crazy hot end of the session, as we exited the curtains of the bedroom.
The glaring looks on the faces of the guys sitting in those lounges near the curtains of our session room when they looked at me, and then the look in their eyes as they then followed her sexy ass in unison as she walked by them, was PRICELESS.
But what was even better was the smirks and glowing smiles I got from this girl across the room the rest of the evening that I was there. I had in mind to take her for another 'goodbye' session again at the end of the night, but she got very busy after that and then when I asked for her, her friends said she had gone home. So I didn't get the chance with her again. Instead, I banged two other blonde girls that night. Then I caught the 6am train back to Budapest to catch my flight home. I've been dreaming about Joanna since. Damn! Now I have to go back to Vienna too for this freakin' girl. __ LOL.
But, now, I should return to the subject matter of this thread, Kiev, as it is my purpose to report on Kiev's p4p action, since the topic of 'freebies' has been the subject of much interesting discussion for the past number of pages.
TRIP REPORT FOR VISIT TO KIEV OF OCTOBER 23 – 25
Link to First Part of this current report for prior visit of Week of October 10 – 16.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1207977&viewfull=1#post1207977
Sunday, October 23:
I arrived back in Kiev on Sunday evening very eager to dive in once again to the smorgasbord of Kiev's gorgeous devushkas, after a week's hiatus tending to other matters.
Travelgirls fails again: One of the girls from travelgirls. Com who was from a small city about two hours from Kiev by bus, who had failed to show up for the date during my previous visit to Kiev of October 10. 16, had remained in communication with me and we were corresponding by email about a 7pm date upon my arrival this Sunday October 23. She had made quite clear in initial emails that she was no escort and I had reassured her that I was a gentleman and if she wanted to stay over at my apartment she was welcome to and could feel safe. In discussing the logistics, I proposed to her to come and have a nice dinner with me for our first date, and then she could either carch the last bus home at 10pm, or if she liked me and felt comfortable to do so, she could stay over with me at my apartment. She asked where she would sleep. (At this point, my thinking was that since this time I only had two nights in Kiev, and I definitely did NOT want to give up one of those nights to let a girl from travelgirls. Com cockblock me from bringing another girl home for sex, by platonically sleeping on my couch, I deliberately witheld that as an option). So I wrote her back that my apartment is a 1 bedroom with a large queen size bed that is qite comfortable for two people, and that I could be trusted to be a gentleman such that nothing she didn't want would happen, and that she could make her mind up during dinner whether she wanted to go home with the last bus, or whether she felt comfortable in staying over at my place, but that regardless we would have a nice dinner together for our first date to get acquainted. In responding to her in this way, I had decided that if there was some likelihood of some kissing, cuddling, and / or petting, while she slept in the same bed with me, I could live with it even if there were no sex, and who knows, maybe there would be sex in the end. But her sleeping on the couch? No way. So I gave her those two options only – going home after the date, or sleeping over in my bed – her choice. In the end, she wrote she didn't feel comfortable sleeping in same bed on first date, and she didn't respond to the offer to have dinner and then catch the last bus home. The other travelgirl who I had bought the dresses for, and actually did meet with once, had emailed me a week later to say Hello, and I invited her out to dinner as well during this visit, but she never responded to the invitation. Based on my experiences, I consider the pursuit of travelgirls to get sex to be a waste of precious time in Kiev. If you have time to waste, by all means pursue these girls and maybe get dates with some of them in the end. I only tried with four of them. But it is too subject to quirkiness of the girls, and so don't expect assured results.
RIO: Having received the email that the travelgirl was not coming for dinner, I made preparations to go get the delicious Katya from Rio, as I had promised her we would go out again when I returned to Kiev. So off I went to Rio and asked to sit in the VIP lounge. While there I saw Anastacia, the slender black haired energetic pole dancer; Snezhana, the tall slender but nicely curved brunette with the sultry classy looks; Lea a cute petite blonde; and Tory, the hardbodied black haired sex goddess that is hard not to notice as she dances.
In the upstairs inner room I saw the following girls of note: Margarita, a very pretty model face brunette with great body, medical student, very good looking girl, but seemed distracted and didn't connect with her probably due to the language barrier as she had nothing to say and seemed uneasy about it, so I regrettably cut her loose without doing the private dance with her. I also took note of Michelle, tall brunette with pretty face, long legs and good body; Mia, a sexy pretty brunette with a very hot ass; Siliana, blonde with very pretty face, nice tush, but no tits, graceful precision pole dancer; Elsa, long luxurious blonde hair, with pretty face, nice ass, but petite girl; Ksusha, a blond with pretty face and good body with wider hips; Tina, slender blonde with really pretty face and cute ass; Anita, very pretty face blonde with nice curves.
But I took Katya home and the session was great, but with the same limitations of covered DATY and covered BJ, but otherwise she is a very sweet but sexy girl.
Monday, October 24.
During the day on Monday, I called Sasha to come over. She was one of my favorites from the River Palace days, who says she goes to Buddha Bar sometimes, and that most of the former RP girls went to Moscow. Sasha, now almost 30, a former lawyer from Russia, is still a very sexy, classy brunette, with a petite, but very nice body. She reminds me of actress Barbara Bach, the sexy Russian spy in the James Bond film, 'The Spy Who Loved Me' (see this link: http://www.orcutt.net/othercontent/thatdress.html ). Anyway, it's always a thrill having sex with this very sexy lady, which began on the bed, but ended on the living room couch in doggie position when her cute little ass slamming back against me repeatedly as she took me inside herself, got the better of me.
In the evening, I decided to go back to Rio and sat in the VIP lounge at first. I took note of a cute slim brunette named Ella; a super sexy awesome bodied blonde named Darina whom the manager told me thought she was a princess and was asking higher prices than the other girls; Elvira, a pretty but petite girl with black hair and cute ass; Laima, a brunette with a great body and a very sweet pretty face, who I wanted to take home, but said she didn't feel well in the end; Tanya, very pretty awesome body blonde who had once told me dancer only and only go out to nightclubs, but manager said she goes out which I assumed meant to apartments; Ira, tall nicely curved blonde with very pretty face. In the end I propositioned Ira, and she came home with me. Ira was a great session also.
===================================
THE RIO LINE-UP AS OF OCTOBER 2011
Putting together my observations and notes made in recent trips the following girls are the ones I took note of that I felt the majority of men would deem to be between 8's to 10's, and so worth future visitors taking a look at. I tried to list them in the order of beauty, with the most desireable within each category at the top of the list in that category. The descriptions of these girls are in the body of this report and the report for my October 10. 16 visit to Kiev. Lamentably, I don't have the encyclopedic memory of a Basketcase who used to post on the Frankfurt FKK threads, but perhaps other writers can take this list and embellish it with additional favorites, or information about each girl's services. This is a preliminary effort. It is pointless to record where I saw the particular girl, whether in VIP, or in upstairs or downstairs room, or in Paradise club, because the girls rotate around the various rooms and between the clubs. However, ultimately one will let one's own eyes be the first guide as to which girls to be interested in.
A list like this may prove helpful, because if one doesn't see anything interesting, after sitting for a while, instead of waiting for the whole line up to complete its dance shift, one may choose to short-cut the process and ask a manager to point out a particular girl from the list or to invite her to one's table for a chat, and if you fancy more, then you can go on to a private dance or a drink, BUT IT SHOULD GO WITHOUT SAYING THAT THE EXISTENCE OF A LIST CONTAINING INFORMATION ABOUT THE DANCERS IN THEIR CLUB SHOULD NOT BE MADE EVIDENT TO THE MANAGERS OF THE CLUB. ALTHOUGH IT IS LIKE ADVERTISING FOR THEM, THEY MAY NOT BE COMFORTABLE WITH THE ATTENTION.
Blondes
Tanya.
Renata.
Darina.
Sofia.
Margo.
Anita.
Tina.
Ira.
Layla.
Anette.
Siliana.
Elsa.
Bella.
Ksusha.
Dasha.
Yana.
Lea.
Brunettes
Leela.
Katya.
Ada.
Laima.
Michelle.
Lea.
Snezhana.
Mia.
Yula.
Julia.
Maya.
Black hair
Margarita.
Tamara.
Marta.
Tory.
Anastacia.
Elvira.
The Adage of RTFF Always Applies
So to further assist newbies who are so new that they haven't yet gotten how important it is to read the thread going back to at least March of this year, and so they post simple questions asking for help on topics discussed many times previously, which they could have accessed by simply taking the time to read the forum, I shall post a few links to prior reports of a summary nature which will both assist anyone looking to acquire a better picture of the goings on in Kiev by having assembled in one place much of the information, as well as show how important reading the prior posts can be to their upcoming trips to Kiev.
Report for Weekend of Sept 1 – 5.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1195170&viewfull=1#post1195170
Reviewing the basics. Why Go to Rio.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1195532&viewfull=1#post1195532
Compare Freebies to Rio and Compare Kiev to FKKs.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1197324&viewfull=1#post1197324
Review of Day and Night Options.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1189515&viewfull=1#post1189515
Advice on the Options / Strategy based on preferences and time.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1184509&viewfull=1#post1184509
Link to List of All My Prior Posts.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/search.php?searchid=222607
Happy Hunting.
LJ
Toptraveler1
10-31-11, 03:19
That is a pure fact. The "emerging" Russian middle classes take two to three trips a year on average (WTO numbers).
Anyhow seems that you like to argue. The point was not that Moscow was dangerous to Central Asians economic refugees. Of course it is. The (your) point was about safety in Moscow mid-to upper level clubs. And it is safe. Those clubs are filled with successful young professionals (men and women) who travel a lot and have no resentement or bad feelings towards foreigners. I am french, and can tell you that Russians are fond of french culture (there was some 1 millions Russian tourists that have visited Paris in 2010). I have not the feeling that Ukrainians are equally cultured and worldly. Furthermore, Russia is not touched by sex-tourism as Ukraine or Moldova are. As I said below, the more a place is invaded by sex-tourism, the more disdain (and sometimes hate) towards foreigners is palpable.
BTW you said you "lived a few years in Moscow", but a single search on your past posts reveals only questions about this city, such as "Hello, I need to know if there is any other expat club, except Ché, in Moscow and if there is any where we can dance salsa and "meet" girls?" or "Hello, anybody knows where we can find Toshkas in Moscow?". Strange, indeed. You seem to have a weird agenda.Monsieur, you are wrong. First of all western 'sex tourists' need visa to go to Russia and this is not the case for Ukraine and this is the reason why you see more 'sex tourists' in Kiev. But if they could go to Russia without visa application I am sure that many would go there. The second point is that Moscow is much bigger than Kiev so you may have the feeling that there are less sex workers in Moscow but this is not true. Finally the last point is that there are many girls who are obliged to work in very bad conditions especially girls from Russian far provinces, Ukraine and Moldavia who are completely under the control of their pimps in Moscow.
Your point is that russians as they have more money, are smart and good looking compared to ukrainians so they are more tolerant and Moscow is a safe place for foreign people. As you are French, just remember that a French guy has been killed in a horrible way just few months ago in Moscow and we never find the murderer even if authorities try to strangle the murder and this is just a mediatic exemple. So the unsafely is not just for so called 'economic refugees' in Moscow as you mention. You must know also that people you call 'economic refugees' are usually living in Moscow for decades! http://www.parismatch.com/Actu-Match/Monde/Actu/Un-couple-franco-russe-sauvagement-tue-a-Moscou-90769/
Living in Paris I don't see hundred of thousand Russian tourists here as you say. I know even France is not on top of Russian favorite destinations as the favorites are Turkey, Egypt and China.
You say my posts revealed this or that. Please be more serious when you are searching comments. My first comment on Moscow was on 06/17/07, longtime before you even joined this forum and the last one was when I left the city on 07/15/10. So as you see I spent more than 3 years in Moscow. Saying this, I am not surprised that you declare so strange things about ukrainians and russians.
I think the second point is that as your posts show, since 2010 you have been in many cities and countries (Tashkent, Sao Paulo, Bucharest, Minsk, Paris, Rio, Tiraspol, Chisinau, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kiev, Moscow, Odessa, etc) so it is clear to me that you did not have enough time or a real opportunity to know Moscow or Kiev and the people who live there. I don't want to argue anymore as it seems to me you like things that you don't really know. Maybe this is your french side!
Bonne route!
I banged a nottie that turned out to be a hottie this morning.
I'm so glad I gave her the time. Now we are going to do some clubs in the week & she's going to assist in the pull of another woman for some mutual f*ck pleasure.
She enjoys women also.
Monsieurs!
Living in Paris I don't see hundred of thousand Russian tourists here as you say.Hum. You live in Paris you say. Let me doubt of it. As about Moscow. Not that I care a lot anyway.
longtime before you even joined this forumI joined this forum when Jackson revived the old (another forum). Org about twelve years ago, therefore before it was transformed in ISG in 2002.
By the way anyone who will browse your posts will see that it was almost solely questions, including about a city (Moscow) where you allegedly lived. Talk about added-value.
I think the second point is that as your posts show, since 2010 you have been in many cities and countries (Tashkent, Sao Paulo, Bucharest, Minsk, Paris, Rio, Tiraspol, Chisinau, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kiev, Moscow, Odessa, etc.This is nonsense BS. Posting about places where I have been and that I know pretty well doesn't mean that I visited them within the past year. About Tiraspol, Odessa or Lugansk, I just asked questions.
Anyway, never argue with a fool, he will drag you down to his level and beat you by experience. Bye.
I don't want to argue anymore as it seems to me you like things that you don't really know. Maybe this is your french side!You know Moscow, as you allegedly lived there three years. But oddly enough, you never posted no entertaining narratives, self-reflexions about the different scenes available, tactical considerations for non-pro dating and observations about Russian girls psyche, funny accounts featuring lots of vodka and poon, analytical overview of nightlife, strip club reviews, elaborate list of current "in" places, perpectives about life in Russia, photos, ect. No. Nothing. Nada. Nitchevo. Only (silly) questions. LOL
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