Kyiv

[LifeSavour]

to capitalize and be greedy.

I think business savvy establishments in Kiev <<<<<Slavic mentality does not allow this 'type of savvy thinking'.

1) Take the taxi guy that will sit near Perchersk metro NOT taking any fares under 100 grivna (even if it is 3 blocks away)! Sits for 5 hours thinking HE is making $$!

2) The apartment owner that is asking 40% too much in rent, will not accept less and it sits empty for 6months!

Your Logic is sound. Just not in Kyiv!

[LifeSavour]

long time lurker here. haven't posted as my info would have been redundant.

i'm spoiled. i live near tijuana, and often travel to montreal. tijuana is great for speedy selection and relief of stress. with a little work it can lead to some gfe. montreal has been wonderful. the standard of service is amazing. dfk, dt, bbbj all seem to be minimum service level with nearly all the wonderful ladies there.

i'm looking to spend a week of serious fun in europe. i'm looking for slender young open minded ladies. price is relevant, but service level is most important. i am planning this as a sort of retirement trip. i have the cash now, and may not in the future. most of my 50's are past, so i don't expect to be seeking out freebies.

i am torn between frankfurt, and kiev. i am bilingual, but don't expect spanish to go far in any of these destinations. i want gfe like i've found in montreal. all nighters would be nice, but hourly works too. after reading most posts for the past couple years in many threads i have come to the conclusion that kiev sounds best for me. fkk just doesn't seem my style, and the entire german scene sounds a little more business like than i am hoping to find.

i realize the fkk would be more guaranteed service, but it sounds like with a week in kiev i should have a fair chance of finding what i'm after. am i way off base?

one other question. i'd like to be met at the airport, and shown around town my first day there. any pointers on finding an english speaking young lady that would offer this sort of service? not looking for this to go anywhere beyond a tour, trip to the grocery store, and a few pointers on getting around.

the attached is an example of an 18yo i found recently in montreal.and simply ask the kyiv girls of your liking if they would be interested in 'guiding' you. many will! and you may get lucky and "score" as well!

[It Travel]

long time lurker here. haven't posted as my info would have been redundant.

i'm spoiled. i live near tijuana, and often travel to montreal. tijuana is great for speedy selection and relief of stress. with a little work it can lead to some gfe. montreal has been wonderful. the standard of service is amazing. dfk, dt, bbbj all seem to be minimum service level with nearly all the wonderful ladies there.

i'm looking to spend a week of serious fun in europe. i'm looking for slender young open minded ladies. price is relevant, but service level is most important. i am planning this as a sort of retirement trip. i have the cash now, and may not in the future. most of my 50's are past, so i don't expect to be seeking out freebies.

i am torn between frankfurt, and kiev. i am bilingual, but don't expect spanish to go far in any of these destinations. i want gfe like i've found in montreal. all nighters would be nice, but hourly works too. after reading most posts for the past couple years in many threads i have come to the conclusion that kiev sounds best for me. fkk just doesn't seem my style, and the entire german scene sounds a little more business like than i am hoping to find.

i realize the fkk would be more guaranteed service, but it sounds like with a week in kiev i should have a fair chance of finding what i'm after. am i way off base?

one other question. i'd like to be met at the airport, and shown around town my first day there. any pointers on finding an english speaking young lady that would offer this sort of service? not looking for this to go anywhere beyond a tour, trip to the grocery store, and a few pointers on getting around.

the attached is an example of an 18yo i found recently in montreal.i know quite well both the cities, and i'll go definitely for kiev.

in frankfurt may be it's easier to go to a fkk or a brothel, but usually you do not get teens giving gfe. naïve teens (or almost 20-21) are quite easy to find and getting them in bed is not a problem.

make a free logon at www.flirt.com.ua, the same as mamba. ru or love. ru, and search them. most of the teens searching for a sponsor will agree for a short term sponsorship (week or so).

but be careful. with a fsu teen (or may be two) in bed it's easy to get addicted!

it

ps if you want pm me.

[AColonizer]

I write here with no criticism. I try here to summarize years of reports that men don't want to read!

For two girls maybe 600$ are reasonable, but for what? I didn't understand which kind of piggish services you got.

But the real problem is always the same: prices are made by customers, prices are not made by prostitutes. Oh you should see how a real monger negotiate: that's a huge show! And prices are conforming to the real economy, and NEVER to stunning girls' words and feelings!

Moreover, if Rio and one / two more entertaiment places are the only solutions, then it is sure you should find different solutions in Kiev and in Ukraine, because everybody is good at paying those prices and that doesn't deserve an expensive travel at all!

I know your fear to lose those stunning girls, but here you have to choice: to remain a silly dick ready to pay luxury prices to stunning girls (and to their pimps / lovers at the same time) , or to become a true playboy who doesn't mind any females but, for a strange universal law, he fucks a lot for cheap. Mongering is a fiery art.


Acolonizer,

I paid 600 $$ for 2 girls, not for one girl. It might be possible to give 450 or 500 $ at Rio for 2 girls by morning, but I didn't want to lose these girls. They were really stunned and there were not so many beautiful girls at the Rio when I went.

[Jack2004]

Dear All:

I spent New Year Eve in Kiev. This was my 1st travel there as a single in several years. I really enjoyed my time there, even if my sexual activities were quite limited.

No snow there, which makes everything easier, but anyway a weak season, not so many people, and everybody covered, so not much eye candy. So winter usually is not the best season to visit this part of the world.

Activities:

Massage:

A friend presented me with a masseuse visit. Full contact body massage, the hardest body I have met, and very nice behavior, and beautiful Slavic face. Fingering and licking was strictly forbidden until wine, chocolate and my insistence surrender her. A very nice meeting. 650 hrg for 1. 5 h.

Rio:

I spent a couple of nights there. Most of the things written here are true and useful. 2 managers (Dmitry and Andrei?) kind and cooperative, with the standard tip. A 3rd one, not at all. Reasonable prices, music, etc.

I tried to read here several post to try to remember names and 'reviews', but I failed, even if these were weak nights in Rio, about 20-30 girls are dancing in every room, so too much offer for my limited brain.

According to my taste, not a single 10, a couple of 9s, and many 8-7s: Oxana, Rita, Evelina. Asha. Were nice, most of them with a limited English, but with good body language. The 9s, both looked like teenagers, small breast, skinny, not very tall, not light colored eyes and not blondes, but flirting, speaking good English, and really beautiful faces and bodies:

Regina: A brunette with beautiful smile and a skinny body. Funny, seductive, looking for some body contact during the 'interviews', fully nude during the dances, but not fingering or kissing, and no taking away. I'm pretty sure with several visits this could change.

Elen (I think she is the Helen with conflicting reviews) : Russian, early 20s, petite, perhaps the most perfect face, quite professional and 'porno' dance. Quite busy during the nights. Keep her panties, and was quite passive during the dance, even if was possible to touch quite a lot. It was possible to take her away for a date or sex. But during our polite conversation we had a couple of surprising discrepancies, it was uneasy. I ignored the 1st one, but not the 2nd. Unfortunately it was quite obvious she was just working and not very interested in me, so I decide to cut my losses, and explained this to her. She left. A pity.

Later I read this post:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1160786&viewfull=1#post1160786

My experience was similar in the club, and I guess at the restaurant or disco and home would have been similar too. So I feel lucky, even if the girl was absolutely tempting.

On the contrary, these 2 'fantastic' posts:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1213505&viewfull=1#post1213505

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1236576&viewfull=1#post1236576

I'm quite more surprised with these 2 reports, both written in 'peculiar' English and by not very active members. I don't know what to think. If I'm optimistic, I'the say we have always hope.

C Novim Godom!

[Uke Boy]

Slavic mentality does not allow this 'type of savvy thinking'.

1) Take the taxi guy that will sit near Perchersk metro NOT taking any fares under 100 grivna (even if it is 3 blocks away)! Sits for 5 hours thinking HE is making $$!

2) The apartment owner that is asking 40% too much in rent, will not accept less and it sits empty for 6months!

Your Logic is sound. Just not in Kyiv!LS is entirely quite correct. I have commented about this many times in the past. The laws of economics that work elsewhere in the world simply do not exist in Ukraine. They just do things their own way and are quite content with the results for good or ill.

That's why prices during Euro 2012 will skyrocket through the stratosphere for that month and if there are few takers, then the girls will be just as happy in their blissful ignorance and stupidity.

[Member #4491]

Here is a video that relates to LJ:s and Slavophile's posts on the connection between prostitution and major sports events.

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5253283

"Agencies popping up like mushrooms."

This article, and the linked pages, are interesting (but rather inconclusive) :

"It is safe to say that if there has been an increase in demand, it has not triggered a noteworthy reaction in terms of an increase on the supply side,"

http://blogs.wsj.com/numbersguy/the-elusive-link-between-sex-trafficking-and-sporting-events-952/

Time will tell who was right. Keep notes, boys.

Barba

[Raffzahn]

LS is entirely quite correct. I have commented about this many times in the past. The laws of economics that work elsewhere in the world simply do not exist in Ukraine. They just do things their own way and are quite content with the results for good or ill.

That's why prices during Euro 2012 will skyrocket through the stratosphere for that month and if there are few takers, then the girls will be just as happy in their blissful ignorance and stupidity.Isn't that true everywhere on the world? Even Burger King raises the price of their sandwiches in Munich during the last two weeks in September (I. E. Bacon Cheeseburger goes from 1. 50 EUR to 2 EUR). Almost as if they want to cash in on Oktoberfest visitors.)

H.

[Climaxnow]

But I do know one thing. When the quality of an agencies girls goes down, prices go down. When the quality goes up, prices go up.

Slavophile mentioned some mumbo jumbo about LMR in Warsaw lowering there prices for Euro 2012. Come on, who are you kidding! If they dropped there price, its because they can not find any talent worth the original donation.

Also, Barba posted some fun to read articles about all the prostitutes coming to town. It does not really apply to Ukraine because those are Chinese gangs that have the infrastructure to move girls from country to country.

Prices may be skewed a bit at Rio, nightclubs, and established agencies during that month but I would doubt anything significant. Girls can only fuck so many guys in a single day.

Just my two cents.

[Ronaldinjo]

Is it worth to come to Kiev in winter?

[Slavophile]

Essentially that is my point. The agencies, WGs or organizations which are savvy like Le Moulin Rouge Warsaw is being will make money. www.lemoulinrougepl.com LMR Warsaw actually lowered their contributions with anticipation of the Euro Cup 2012.

Granted what LMR Warsaw offers is conceptually not everyone's cup of tea, but for those who like provocative environments, it's a value for your money.

This is just one example, but I am sure there has to be others as well that will be savvy enough to not raise their prices, at least I hope so for their sakes.

Yes, many of you are correct it is Slavic mentality, it's like it here in Prague and in Poland where I at times have business and monger.

For those in the "mongering business" who bother to apply the same economic principles which are in the "real world" those savvy mongering establishments could stand to do quite well for themselves, and that's my overall point.

Thanks gentlemen for allowing me to bring a little sanity and logic into this discussion.

I completely understand everyone's point about, the Slavs, Kiev and Eastern Europe in general.

There is a lot of truth in what you're saying and I have observed the same as well since being stuck over here.

I plan on being in Warsaw and Kiev during the Euro Cup 2012.

In Warsaw I will be shagging myself and Polish birds senseless at LMR Warsaw and in Kiev I'll bag myself a prototypical Bond girl, Ivana Humpalot, etc.

Cheers,

Slavophile.

P. S.

I don't think it's Mumbo Jumbo. Their prices have alway fluctuated with vouchers, promotions and this and that and their relatively new. They have the same talent as they had last year. You lower the price to get more business, it's that simple. That's why the best deals in department stores are after Christmas, prices are lower.

It makes sense, if you are trying make more money based on volume when your competition decides to raise prices in anticipation. A smart person lowers them or keeps them the same. Does it make sense that just because everyone else is raising prices, you should raise prices, too? How are you differentiating yourself from your competitors? The first thing is usually the cost of something is a huge determinant of a person choosing a product, whatever the product or service.

I think with LMR Warsaw it's all about the volume. They throw parties and it's a 2:1 man to woman ratio. I think they are trying to go against the trend LJ anticipates. LMR Warsaw has nothing but good reviews, so the quality of service is not the issue. They just have a different strategy for the Euro Cup 2012. I used them as my example but my overall point was an economic point. Smart businesses will keep prices low or the same during the Euro Cup 2012. That's my overall point.

The free market is suppose to work when you have competition the prices are supposed to be moderate to low, because there are so many other mongering options for the client to choose. How is that mumbo jumbo? A product is a product, no matter if it's women, hamburgers or toothpaste.

It's the relative value to the individual which makes buying time with women different, I see your point there.

As to how many guys girls can fuck, ask the girls at Lady Marmalade Parties in London. 3 parties a day. 7 girls, up to 14 mongers max at every party (2:1 man to woman ratio) .5 days a week. Fucking hell mate, a women's vagina is a marvel to me. I dare say I understand what it could or could not take. My ego is not that big.

I am sure at LMR Warsaw they see their share of nobs, too. As well the as the German Partytreff scene.

[IslandMan27]

+1. Understanding the alphabet is IMO vital.

Here is a great page to learn it: (place your cursor over each letter to listen to the alphabet as it's spoken)

http://www.languageguide.org/russian/alphabet/

Learn it by both writing and speaking it (writing solidifies the visual comprehension). Do it for 15 minutes a day for 45 days and you will have learned it permanently.

A tip, make excercises by writing girls names (Tatiana, Irina, Masha, ect) or cities names (Vladivostok, Volgograd, Novokuzrnestk, ect) in cyrillic. It's easy, fun and efficient.Prosal, thanks for the languageguide link! It was very helpful. I took Russian language classes over 15 years ago, and that smart little page was a nice refresher. Brought back a lot of memories!

[Kiev Freak]

Hi Jack2004,

I also read Insomniaque's post. In fact the girls also wanted to go a karaoke club with me and I said no. I think I could smell the rip-off. In Turkey these kind of things often happens. I only bought beverages that are tequila and baileys from the supermarket with some foods for the girls. We also went to regular restaurant on morning after we fucked. That is all. But sure if we went to a disco or somewhere so I would be damaged just like Insomniaqe.

I also want to ask a question to IT Travel or any expert mamba. Ru hunters :

How can you be sure that the girls will provide you good services including BBBJ and anal sex? Or how can you be sure that the girl won't be leave earlier after you paid her for 24 hours, for example? Almost none of these girls speaks english. So have do you communicate with them? I tried to monger on mamba but couldn't find a girl who speaks english. But I did it in my donetsk adventure and didn't look for girls in Kiev but in donetsk. There may be english speaking gals on mamba in Kiev area, I don't know, however there arent in donetsk.

And secondly, Do you talk with the girl on mamba and asking her what services she will offer before you land in Kiev? I'm really very curious about this. I tend to go for escort agencies or clubs such as Rio but mongering for non professional student girls is always exciting experience, of course. Next time I also want to monger on mamba. Ru.

This was my second ukrain visit, I am not an ukrain expert but I am trying to be by reading advices, posts, reviews in this forum.

Thanks in advance

[Prosal]

Prosal, thanks for the languageguide link! It was very helpful. I took Russian language classes over 15 years ago, and that smart little page was a nice refresher. Brought back a lot of memories!Pajalsta. BUT keep in mind that printed letters and cursive letters are slightly different. If your hotel receptionist writes you something about a direction or whatever, you must be able to read it. This page helps with how to make those cursive letters.

http://www.brown.edu/Departments/LRC/RU_writing/index.htm#

[Climaxnow]

Prosal, thanks for the languageguide link! It was very helpful. I took Russian language classes over 15 years ago, and that smart little page was a nice refresher. Brought back a lot of memories!Dollar for dollar, best thing out there. If a girl actually likes you, you will have enough to communicate.

[Charisman]

Thank you IT. Very useful tip. Betting solely on Rio seems a risky strategy from what I read here. Rio sounds like a gamble so far as GFE is concerned as the girl can totally turn on you outside the club in terms of attitude.

I wish there was a list of Mamba girls that people can attest to. I may try to compile one based on what I read here. If you have any other tips on Mamba, please pass them on.


I know quite well both the cities, and I'll go definitely for Kiev.

In Frankfurt may be it's easier to go to a FKK or a Brothel, but usually you do not get teens giving GFE. Naïve teens (or almost 20-21) are quite easy to find and getting them in bed is not a problem.

Make a free logon at.

www.flirt.com.ua

, the same as mamba. Ru or love. Ru, and search them. Most of the teens searching for a sponsor will agree for a short term sponsorship (week or so).

But be careful. With a FSU teen (or may be two) in bed it's easy to get addicted!

IT

PS if you want PM me.

[Gentleman Travel]

Slavic mentality does not allow this 'type of savvy thinking'.

1) Take the taxi guy that will sit near Perchersk metro NOT taking any fares under 100 grivna (even if it is 3 blocks away)! Sits for 5 hours thinking HE is making $$!

2) The apartment owner that is asking 40% too much in rent, will not accept less and it sits empty for 6months!

Your Logic is sound. Just not in Kyiv!This also suggests that prices will take a long time coming down after Eurocup.

The girls who previously charge $300. $500 for a couple of hours (whether they had many buyers or not) are not likely to drop prices back down to $200 just because the crowds have gone.

They will likely sit at the bar, hour after hour, waiting for the big score, rather than "cheapen" themselves to become a discounted hooker.

True, this is stupid from a business point of view, but just a part of human nature, and the nature of people offering personal services, especially service THIS personal.

In contrast, I have a P4P girl in Washington who has wildly variable rates based on what she thinks the client will bear. I guess I met her on a slow night and got a decent rate. Now when I visit DC I always have to remind her that I am a $300 client, otherwise she is quoting me 2 or 3 X that amount, and I bet she gets it from some guys. But she is always willing to fill a timeslot at a lower rate, to earn the marginal income.

[Gentleman Travel]

i think you are basically right, if you want a gfe then fkk is not the route for you. but no harm in trying it for an afternoon on a lay-over on your way to ukraine!

with a week or two in kiev you should be able to get up to lots of fun. or better still, a week in kiev and a week in a slightly smaller city, for a bit of variety.

and yes, sponsorship sounds like the way to go for you.

as for getting help with logistics, you can place a "travel" ad on mamba or luckylovers, or search some of sites for "interpreter" or "tourism" as an occupation (although you really do not need to restrict yourself to those girls). you could just ask for this help in your personal ad and you will get many takers. and with a little luck (or skill) you may well be able to bed your guide also. one possible strategy for this would be to explain that you will want to meet girls, so can she recommend some clubs and accompany you at first. chances are she will take you for herself or her friends!

another thing to consider, given your spanish, is spain. i have not mongered there myself, but some people here on isg really sing its praises.

i don't know if that is just for p4p or if there is some kind of sponsorship / freebie market. given the economic climate, it should be a good time to go.


long time lurker here. haven't posted as my info would have been redundant.

i'm spoiled. i live near tijuana, and often travel to montreal. tijuana is great for speedy selection and relief of stress. with a little work it can lead to some gfe. montreal has been wonderful. the standard of service is amazing. dfk, dt, bbbj all seem to be minimum service level with nearly all the wonderful ladies there.

i'm looking to spend a week of serious fun in europe. i'm looking for slender young open minded ladies. price is relevant, but service level is most important. i am planning this as a sort of retirement trip. i have the cash now, and may not in the future. most of my 50's are past, so i don't expect to be seeking out freebies.

i am torn between frankfurt, and kiev. i am bilingual, but don't expect spanish to go far in any of these destinations. i want gfe like i've found in montreal. all nighters would be nice, but hourly works too. after reading most posts for the past couple years in many threads i have come to the conclusion that kiev sounds best for me. fkk just doesn't seem my style, and the entire german scene sounds a little more business like than i am hoping to find.

i realize the fkk would be more guaranteed service, but it sounds like with a week in kiev i should have a fair chance of finding what i'm after. am i way off base?

one other question. i'd like to be met at the airport, and shown around town my first day there. any pointers on finding an english speaking young lady that would offer this sort of service? not looking for this to go anywhere beyond a tour, trip to the grocery store, and a few pointers on getting around.

the attached is an example of an 18yo i found recently in montreal.despite living close to montreal and travelling there often, i have never been successful in having a really good experience with p4p there.

but your girl looks fabulous. is she a pro and how would i find her?

[Kiev Freak]

I wish there was a list of Mamba girls that people can attest to. I may try to compile one based on what I read here. If you have any other tips on Mamba, please pass them on.I wish this, too.

I also asked this question below. That was really good gudie for new ukrain mongers!


How can you be sure that the girls will provide you good services including BBBJ and anal sex? Or how can you be sure that the girl won't be leave earlier after you paid her for 24 hours, for example? Almost none of these girls speaks english. So have do you communicate with them? I tried to monger on mamba but couldn't find a girl who speaks english. But I did it in my donetsk adventure and didn't look for girls in Kiev but in donetsk. There may be english speaking gals on mamba in Kiev area, I don't know, however there arent in donetsk.

And secondly, Do you talk with the girl on mamba and asking her what services she will offer before you land in Kiev? I'm really very curious about this. I tend to go for escort agencies or clubs such as Rio but mongering for non professional student girls is always exciting experience, of course. Next time I also want to monger on mamba. Ru.

[RomanyStar]

I've booked the flight, and apartment for mid-March.

Will definitely let you know how it turns out.

[Stevie69]

This type of "private dance" with fondling, rubbing, and all kinds of touching and "dry humping" is standard in Quebec. Usually it includes licking the nipples and can include fingering and licking other parts of her body. All this for a mere $20 per "song". It used to be $10 not too many years ago. Of course, it adds up quickly so the girls try to entice you into staying with them for as long as possible Clubs outside cities are more liberal, but depending on the club, there might be a BJ or actual sex for an additional cost. However, having sex for 10 minutes in a dark and dirty small booth may cater to the fantasy of having impromptu sex with a stripper but it is really uncomfortable and too expensive for what you get.

I have had a couple of actual BJs, for a little extra, and some partial ones, for "free". When the "song" is about to end they will do what they can to try to convince you to stay for one more. And once I actually had sex in a little booth. Exciting, I suppose, but not comfortable. In Niagara falls there are also a couple of strip bars like that, but I have not been here in many years.

I never tried take-out at these places, but I suppose everything is possible. And no, they are not the quality of the girls one find sin Ukraine, but some are perfectly fine.


The subject of the quality and extent of private dances at Rio has been the subjuct of a fair number of posts in previous months this year, so the reason you "didn't find" is because you didn't look sufficiently by actually reading the thread going back an appropriate number of months. But I recognize that actually reading the thread is a tedious task to those who prefer the easy way out of just posting a previously asked question again here.

But I will tell you that private dances at Rio are hotter than anything I've ever experienced at strip clubs in major cities in the West (at least with many girls at Rio). Kising of nipples, direct fingering of pussy, kissing, fondling of cock through the material of your pants, all the goodies, have happened at Rio in the privacy of the private dance room, but not with every customer and not with every girl. That is why the private dance is an important tool to be used to find a girl for take out that has some chemistry with you. If she shuts you down and won't allow you to touch her at all or kiss anything, and there are such ice queens working there, then it's a no brainer that she is not going to be very forthcoming and giving when it comes to sex if you're foolish enough to take such a girl home because she is very beautiful in your eyes and you really want her. There are no rules requiring her to give you a great experience sexually. That is why finding a girl who actually likes you and with whom you have experienced some chemistry in a private dance and even in conversation at your table is important in the search for the girl who will provide a GFE sexual experience back at your apartment / hotel. The more you feel she is really into you, the better are the chances for good sex if you take her home.

I'm not into DFK with these girls, so I have never had it in a private dance at Rio. But obviously it is something that would be initiated by a customer. Did it ever happen? Possibly, but don't count on it.

It's a quandary. How to find out what a girl will do back at the apartment sexually, based upon what she will do during the private dance. We've all been there. Not only about DFK or DATY, but about any of the sexual relations that are part of GFE. We have to use our wits and our judgment and base our educated guess on the clues we can pick up from the girl in conversation with her, as well as what goes down in a private dance with her when you gently test the waters.

LJ

[Stevie69]

Maybe I can add a little to the price speculations pre- post- and during Euro 2012. Someone raised the issue that Ukrainians are more likely to sit there waiting for the big score rather than earn a reasonable wage for their efforts. It is not just the mentality of Ukrainians, but also a normal decision-making process. When things are relatively okay and you can reasonable expect to make it to the end of the week, or the month or the year, then you are less likely to take financial risks. When you are REALLY broke and, IF THINGS DO NOT CHANGE, you DO NOT expect to make it the the end of the week, month or year, then you take more risks. It is called Risk-sensitive decision-making. If you take more risks, you can score big, but there is also a chance of total failure, but it is worth taking the risk if you "know that if things do not change, then you will not be able to make it.

This behaviour is seen everywhere. Think of a losing team who needs to at least tie a game to make it to the next round. If they throw caution to the wind there is a chance that they might score, or get scored on. BUT if they keep playing the same way, they will lose, so might as well take the risk. In hockey they even pull out the goalie in favour of an extra attacker. It is the same logic why people who are broke are more likely to buy the lottery. I bet Warren Buffet does not ever buy a lottery ticket. Animals adopt risky behaviour if they do not have enough resources to survive the night or the migration. Desperate investors put their money on high-risk ventures, etc.

It is the same with Kiev taxi drivers or other service providers. Some of them have a steady supply of customers, others sit there and just wait for the big score. Of course, the longer you wait, the more opportunities you have wasted, and the worse off you are, and the more you have to rely on that big score.

[Ronaldinjo]

[QUOTE=Liljoey; 1234589]Have you read the thread and have you considered the sound advice in many earlier posts in this thread that renting a luxury apartment downtown, from rental companies like kievapts. Com and other companies referred to by other members here, gives you much more for your money and is preferable when you intend to invite or bring multiple female guests over? Aside from the privacy issue, and not having to deal with interfering hotel security types looking for a handout, or embarrasing moments with hotel reception, a luxury apartment will give you triple the space for less money than a hotel. I have requested the rental company that I only want to rent apartments that are newly refinished or remodeled and are very clean and modern, and they have guided me to selections fitting my requirements. I have not been disappointed yet. The only thing I miss is the ease with which one can get freshly laundered new bath towels in a hotel, but you can make special arrangements for this in an apartment rental too. And regardless, the full kitchen and beautiful living room with big screen TV etc. That makes entertaining girls at your place so much nicer compared to in a hotel room, more than makes up for the bath towels issue. What is the reason to prefer a hotel?

When I order an appatment by kievapts. Com, when and where I get the kees when I shall arrive to Kiev? Are the beds appropriate size in 1 bedrooms appartments? Please answer.

[RomanyStar]

Thanks to all of you for your advice and posts, I have booked my flight and apartment. Those that have asked for more info on my lovely from Montreal have heard back by PM.

I have not found a Google Map for Kiev, so I started one based on the great post by LJ.

Since I am a Kiev virgin please let me know if I have something misplaced, and PLEASE let me know other points that should be on the map.

If this has already been done, let me know that too and I'll gladly use the previous knowledge. HATE reinventing.

Here it is: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=

202083364326811814553. 0004b69c9d40f14d29d51

[RomanyStar]

I hope this works better this time.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=202083364326811814553.0004b69c9d40f14d29d51

[LilJoey]

When I order an appatment by kievapts. Com, when and where I get the kees when I shall arrive to Kiev? Are the beds appropriate size in 1 bedrooms appartments? Please answer.

Kievapts. Com offers an airport pickup service, as many apartment rental companies do, which I usually book. In that case, the driver that picks me up has the keys and helps me in with my bags, takes the payment of any balance due for the rental, and answers any questions I might have. When their driver comes to pick me up to take me back to the airport, I return the keys to him. If an arrival or departure is going to be at a very late or very early hour that is not during business hours, then one is required to do it this way. But if it is during business hours, and you don't use their airport pickup service, and you will get to the correct address on your own, then one of their managers will meet you at the apartment building to let you in and give you the keys, etc.

the bed in a one bedroom apartment is usually a queen size bed or a king size bed. you can look at pictures of every room of each apartment you are considering on their website, as well as see its location on a map.

LJ

[LilJoey]

This type of "private dance" with fondling, rubbing, and all kinds of touching and "dry humping" is standard in Quebec. Usually it includes licking the nipples and can include fingering and licking other parts of her body. All this for a mere $20 per "song". It used to be $10 not too many years ago. Of course, it adds up quickly so the girls try to entice you into staying with them for as long as possible Clubs outside cities are more liberal, but depending on the club, there might be a BJ or actual sex for an additional cost. However, having sex for 10 minutes in a dark and dirty small booth may cater to the fantasy of having impromptu sex with a stripper but it is really uncomfortable and too expensive for what you get.

I have had a couple of actual BJs, for a little extra, and some partial ones, for "free". When the "song" is about to end they will do what they can to try to convince you to stay for one more. And once I actually had sex in a little booth. Exciting, I suppose, but not comfortable. In Niagara falls there are also a couple of strip bars like that, but I have not been here in many years.

I never tried take-out at these places, but I suppose everything is possible. And no, they are not the quality of the girls one find sin Ukraine, but some are perfectly fine.In the "contact" dance strip clubs that decorate downtown Montreal, while it is true that some touching is possible, it is not generously given, but must be bargained and paid for, and yes the girls try to keep you going for more dances. Also no "take out" is generally possible from those strip clubs in Montreal. However, on the outskirts of Montreal, to the West or to the South, there are some strip club bars that have the back room private booths that you mention. One or two which come to mind is Hilltop about 30 minutes on the highway to the West, and Bar Le Gentlemen a similar distance to the South of downtown Montreal. Some of the girls are very beautiful. It is the goal of the girl to get you all excited from her dance to the point that you will pay for the additonal services. The menu offered is generally $100 for oral, and $200 for everything, plus $20 per song for the time. Everything is covered. You can also make an agreement for a flat fee for a certain amount of time like a half hour or an hour with some girls. The booths have nothing more than perhaps a couch and a little shelf for your drink, very basic, and decidedly not upscale. The club doesn't have a place you can really wash up afterwards, other than the regular men's room. Every time I asked one of those beauties to come back to my hotel so that we can be together in cleanliness and comfort, they always asked something like $500 / hour. They weren't really interested in outcall to a hotel, because they were making so much more at the strip club where they could earn $100 to $200 every ten or 15 minutes on a busy night. These type of strip club bars are very special and there aren't too many of them around. I've never checked out Niagara Falls yet.

In Kiev, it is entirely different. The private dances in Rio have none of that attempt by the girl to get you to do more dances or to pay more for additional services. The fee is 200 UAH. That's it. There are some girls who are dancer only and don't do take out at Rio. Some of them do only that in a private dance, they just dance, no touching of tits or pussy. She is not required to do more in a Rio private dance. So when a Rio girl does give you more, and allows you all sorts of sexual liberties with her body, and responds to your ministrations, it is something coming from her to you. It is not required. It is given. Obviously she gives such intimacies in the hope that you will like her and take her home. Most of the Rio girls will simply get up after the first dance is finished. They have no expectation of a second dance. If you want to continue dances you will have to suggest it. Otherwise, she will be getting dressed. Most guys don't need more than a single 2 song dance to decide they want to take the girl home and fuck her. Why spend more on dances in Rio, when you can take her home and do everything your heart desires there.

[LifeSavour]

I also want to ask a question to IT Travel or any expert mamba. Ru hunters :

How can you be sure that the girls will provide you good services including BBBJ and anal sex? Xxxx But I did it in my donetsk adventure and didn't look for girls in Kiev but in donetsk. There may be english speaking gals on mamba in Kiev area, I don't know, however there arent in donetsk.

And secondly, Do you talk with the girl on mamba and asking her what services she will offer before you land in Kiev?

Thanks in advanceDonetsk is very Russian. Little English is happening there! You will find Kyiv much more ENGLISH speaking. Girls in the big city are hit on much more than other locales. I used to try and talk to a girl or 2 girls on the street."Excuse me, do you speak English?" Usually a reply of " NO!", as they raced off down the street. Now I approach and ask "Excuse me, do you speak Russian?" They answer " NO!", then realize my trick and see me smiling and they laugh and we begin some small talk. They ALL. Old & young. Have learned the A B C's, words, sentences. Just not much practice.

And it is amazing to me how at a dinner party they can not speak any English, but after an hour of drinks they become 'fluent"! Xa xa.

Mamba girls will answer all your questions. Timing is sometimes important? Don't always rush right in! But, you do also need to understand some of them will be on site for a day. 2 or 3, or a week. Then disappear! Strike when the iron is hot!

If you want something ask for it. Many girls do want to see you first and that is when a good guy, clean, nice, fun will usually score more & higher than other personality types!

[Guntherus]

Thanks to all of you for your advice and posts, I have booked my flight and apartment. Those that have asked for more info on my lovely from Montreal have heard back by PM.

I have not found a Google Map for Kiev, so I started one based on the great post by LJ.

Since I am a Kiev virgin please let me know if I have something misplaced, and PLEASE let me know other points that should be on the map.

If this has already been done, let me know that too and I'll gladly use the previous knowledge. HATE reinventing.

Here it is:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=

202083364326811814553. 0004b69c9d40f14d29d51This is a good start. Thanks. If I could add to the map I would add Club Arena, and the sport bar is in the same building.

On the other side of the street from Bessarabska-market there is the cheap Billa-store, and around the corner there is TGIF-restaurant, for the americanos (good steaks).

In the same street as apt. #152 there is Club Avalon, probably no better or worse than discos like Patipa, Dinamo-Lux, Shooters, Buddha- or Vodka-bar and several others. Some have restaurants, some not. I have been to them, maybe the age of the clientel varies, and everyone wants something different.

At Maidan Square there is McDonalds, and a little further on Mykhailska street 17 we have Irish pub, both places frequented by westerners.

Sorry I do not know if 0r how to add placemarks to your map.

Good luck, have fun. RB

[Stavvrrooss]

I'm sure this has been answered hundreds of times, but it's a little tedious to go through hundreds of posts to find the answer, so here goes again. On these websites:

http://gia-escort.com/escorts

http://escort-models.com/en/models/

What are the odds the the girl actually corresponds to the photo? Or it's more likely some older fatty comes over?

Thanks

[LilJoey]

I'm sure this has been answered hundreds of times, but it's a little tedious to go through hundreds of posts to find the answer, so here goes again. On these websites:

http://gia-escort.com/escorts

http://escort-models.com/en/models/

What are the odds the the girl actually corresponds to the photo? Or it's more likely some older fatty comes over?

ThanksNot more than a few days ago, I just answered the exact same question for another newbie too lazy to read the thread. See that post:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1236416&viewfull=1#post1236416

You may also reference the following earlier posts about escort--models.com:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1143482&viewfull=1#post1143482

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1145713&viewfull=1#post1145713

What is it with you guys? How hard is it to understand that you only damage yourself by failing to read the thread a reasonable number of months back and gain for yourself the knowledge contained in the earlier posts. I don't feel like continuing to spoonfeed those who don't at least make a responsible effort to find the answer themselves before posting an intelligent question about something not clear to them about what they read.

If using the search tools on this forum is proving to be so difficult for all these newbies, then it shows that a tutorial on how to do searches on this forum is needed and such a tutorial should be posted by the Administrator, or a link to it, in every thread.

LJ

[Ella1984]

Hello,

I am 27 and mak for the man a nice massage about 2 hour and in the end quiky sex in all positions but I need high money for this services.

[Kiev Freak]

This time I will make a good profile on mamba. Ru and try to seek hotties before landing Kiev. If I fail, I will go for gia escorts instead Rio club this time. We will see!

And another thing I learned in donetsk, never go to a girl's home, never.! I want to share my bad experiences with all mongers.

I met a girl in Cyrpus about 6 months ago. We often met in cyprus. She worked in a strip club there. Almost everyweek, I went to see her. We had very good time. When her contact finish, she wented back her country, ukrain-donetsk. Of course I went to donetsk for her. I would stay in her home, I would pay her 1000 $ for 4 days. Yes, it sounds like a good deal. 4 days with a girl including accommodation would cost only 1000 $. But it wouldn't. There were girl's mom and child in the home with 6 small dogs. 2 cat and 1 bird. There was only 1 room in home and there was no door at the room. As you can guess we could never make sex.

I paid her, we couldn't make sex, even we couldn't stay alone. I asked the refund and as you can guess, she didn't. I tried to go but she already got my passport, my all money, my cellphone, my credit cards, my hotel reservation documents (yes, I also made a reservation before coming for backup). Everything. I was very angry, we argued till morning, I broke the windows, punched the walls, I did everything I could and I could get back my passport and 500 $. She always tried to call somebody while we were arguing, probably police, I am not sure. After I got my passport and 500 $, I also stole the girl's cellphone because she already got mine, ran off the fucking city asap.

Now, I learned this very well : NEVER THINK YOU CAN TRUST A PROSTITUTE AND NEVER GO HER HOME!

Ukrain is very nice country with full of beautiful girls but we need to be very careful. Of course most of you already know this but I didn't. I just wanted to share this with you. Please don't do the mistakes I did.

[Ronaldinjo]

I appreciate your help very much. I'm quirious, is thre any danger to pay foe example to "KIEVAPTS" by visa or any card? Are they honest? Nevertheless its ukrain and not germany

[TheKnight]

Have you read the thread and have you considered the sound advice in many earlier posts in this thread that renting a luxury apartment downtown, from rental companies like kievapts. Com and other companies referred to by other members here, gives you much more for your money and is preferable when you intend to invite or bring multiple female guests over? Aside from the privacy issue, and not having to deal with interfering hotel security types looking for a handout, or embarrasing moments with hotel reception, a luxury apartment will give you triple the space for less money than a hotel. I have requested the rental company that I only want to rent apartments that are newly refinished or remodeled and are very clean and modern, and they have guided me to selections fitting my requirements. I have not been disappointed yet. The only thing I miss is the ease with which one can get freshly laundered new bath towels in a hotel, but you can make special arrangements for this in an apartment rental too. And regardless, the full kitchen and beautiful living room with big screen TV etc. That makes entertaining girls at your place so much nicer compared to in a hotel room, more than makes up for the bath towels issue. What is the reason to prefer a hotel?

Regarding the recommendation by Castonthis about the girls for take out available at Dnipro Hotel, I can only refer you to look up the posts by TheKnight on this thread about all the strip club options he has reported on, to consider the issues raised. One such issue might be the higher cost of the girls at the Dnipro compared to Rio. Regarding the opinion that the girls at Dnipro are better looking than those at Rio, I have no personal opinion as I have not visited at the Dnipro strip club due to cost considerations. Yet I have always found an adequate number of very hot girls at Rio of such level of good looks, that it would be hard to imagine that Dnipro has better. But if it the Dnipro strip club did have girls who were better looking than at Rio, as is claimed, then perhaps some extra cost is worth considering. Who knows, maybe TheKnight will spot this post and come to the rescue here with another educated opinion.

LJLast time I went (taking a newbie on a guided tour) , prices were still $400 for up to 3 hours. There were far far far fewer girls to choose from, and while the average mark may be around the same as at Rio, I can guarantee that on each of my visits there the best at Dnipro / Millennium would not have made the top 3 any night at Rio. YMMV.

I actually found decent looking girls (one, Kristina, in particular) at strip club Penthaus. They're charging 2500UAH/$300 for takeout. But small selection (6 or 7 girls)

[LilJoey]

I appreciate your help very much. I'm quirious, is thre any danger to pay foe example to "KIEVAPTS" by visa or any card? Are they honest? Nevertheless its ukrain and not germanyI wrote that I had used them for all my trips to Kiev and have been satisfied with their services. Their policies are that you can secure an available apartment of your choice in advance that you want to rent for 4 days or more by paying a deposit. If you are only renting for 3 days or less then you can not secure it in advance and must rent from what is available in the few days before your arrival. This is because the rental company wants to try to rent the apartment for a longer rental period if they can, up till that time. In order to pay the deposit you will need to do a credit card transaction online. You will need to pay the balance of the amount due for the rental when you arrive at the beginning of the rental period, which their driver or manager will collect from you at the apartment on the day of your arrival. There will be a 6% handling fee on the amount paid as a deposit. I generally don't want to carry around so much cash or go looking for a place to withdraw enough local currency when I arrive to pay the balance, so I pay the whole amount in advance by credit card online. Yes they are trustworthy. Kievapts. Com is not the only apartment rental company that people on this forum have used with success and satisfaction. Have a look at the earlier reports going back and you will find other posters have used and recommended other companies too.

[AColonizer]

Thanks for your witness!

At last, somebody has learnt the lesson: there is no place for gentlemen in mongering prostitutes. I often read reports about gentlemen's etiquette with P4P and there is no doubt those reports are written by very lucky men or by pimps. This is not cynism, this is open our own eyes on the raw reality. This forum is much more educational than years and years of (politically correct) school.

And in general when any kind of female decides to stay with someone is just for her calculated material purpose. At last, any kind of female sells herself for something (children, lifestyle, passport, money, etc.) in exchange of something else (innocence, smiling, cooking, sex, etc.). I wonder, who is the biggest *****: who sells her body for money or who sells her body for children?


This time I will make a good profile on mamba. Ru and try to seek hotties before landing Kiev. If I fail, I will go for gia escorts instead Rio club this time. We will see!

And another thing I learned in donetsk, never go to a girl's home, never! I want to share my bad experiences with all mongers.

I met a girl in Cyrpus about 6 months ago. We often met in cyprus. She worked in a strip club there. Almost everyweek, I went to see her. We had very good time. When her contact finish, she wented back her country, ukrain-donetsk. Of course I went to donetsk for her. I would stay in her home, I would pay her 1000 $ for 4 days. Yes, it sounds like a good deal. 4 days with a girl including accommodation would cost only 1000 $. But it wouldn't. There were girl's mom and child in the home with 6 small dogs. 2 cat and 1 bird. There was only 1 room in home and there was no door at the room. As you can guess we could never make sex.

I paid her, we couldn't make sex, even we couldn't stay alone. I asked the refund and as you can guess, she didn't. I tried to go but she already got my passport, my all money, my cellphone, my credit cards, my hotel reservation documents (yes, I also made a reservation before coming for backup). Everything. I was very angry, we argued till morning, I broke the windows, punched the walls, I did everything I could and I could get back my passport and 500 $. She always tried to call somebody while we were arguing, probably police, I am not sure. After I got my passport and 500 $, I also stole the girl's cellphone because she already got mine, ran off the fucking city asap.

Now, I learned this very well : NEVER THINK YOU CAN TRUST A PROSTITUTE AND NEVER GO HER HOME!

Ukrain is very nice country with full of beautiful girls but we need to be very careful. Of course most of you already know this but I didn't. I just wanted to share this with you. Please don't do the mistakes I did.

[LilJoey]

I hope this works better this time.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=202083364326811814553.0004b69c9d40f14d29d51Very nice effort. A few suggestions / corrections.

Below are the addresses / websites of the locations identified to the extent I could find them.

Is it possible to include the address, phone and website of each in the box that opens when clicking on a pin on your map? I think it's worthwhile including that info so that a person using the map can simply copy down the address to give to a taxi when they are about to go to a location and they don't need to print out a map and use it as a guide by reference to streets and intersections.

Corrections:

The pin for the Besarabsky Rynok (Market) building is in the wrong place. Move it one block up to Bessarabska Square (opposite intersection of Khreshchatyk Street with Tarasa Shevchenka Blvd.)

The BILLA supermarket I was speaking of originally is located on the Khreshchatyk Street side of the Besarabsky Rynok (Market) building, as you can plainly see from the store awnings bearing the BILLA sign in the photograph I attached hereto.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Roll Buzz was referring to the O'Brien's Irish Bar at the address below (Mykhailivs'ka St. 17/2) , and not the one you have on the pin currently. Which is the one frequented by most mongers, I have no idea. There are many Irish Bars. Maybe someone will tell us which is the best for picking up pretty girls or for some other aspect.

LJ.

ADDRESSES OF SIGNIFICANT KIEV LOCATIONS (in no particular order)

Club Avalon.
http://www.avalon.ua/en/
3 Leontovicha str, Kiev, Ukraine.
Phone: (044) 234 7494

Arena Entertainment Complex.
Baseina St. 2A, Kyiv, Ukraine 01004
+380 44 492 0000
www.Arena-Kiev.Com
http://www.arena-kiev.com/eng/about/

Shooters Restaurant-Entertainment Complex
Moskovs'ka St. 22, Kyiv, Ukraine. 01010
+380 44 254 2024
www.Shooters.Kiev.Ua

Vodka Bar
Maidan Nezalezhnosti, Kyiv, Kyiv city, Ukraine
+380 44 371 1102
www.Vodka-bar.Com.Ua

O'Brien's Irish Bar.
Mykhailivs'ka St. 17/2, Kyiv, Ukraine. 01001
+380 44 279 1584 &8206;

McDONALD'S
Sofiivs'ka St. 1/2, Kyiv
+380 44 501 7927

Rio strip club.
Bogdana Khmelnitskogo street 30/10
www.rioclub.com.ua

Buddha Bar
Khreshchatyk Street 14
www.buddhabar.com.ua

D'lux nightclub
Grushevskogo 3
www.dlux.com.ua

Besarabsky Rynok (Market)
Bessarabska Square (opposite intersection of Khreshchatyk Street with Tarasa Shevchenka Blvd.)

BILLA Supermarket
Khreshchatyk Street@Bessarabska Square (in Besarabsky Rynok (Market) building)

Mandarin Plaza Shopping Center
Baseina Street 6
www.mandarin.kiev.ua/eng/

Gurman Supermarket
Baseina St. 4
Downstairs inside the Mandarin Plaza Shopping Center
+38-044-230-9525.

[Ronaldinjo]

People, are there any good bordhels in Kiev, such in moskow or st. Petersburg, where you can choose girls for sex and make sex with them in bordhel without bringing them home? Do you know and have you been in such places?

[RomanyStar]

Very nice effort. A few suggestions / corrections.Thanks for all your work LJ. I've incorporated your corrections and suggestions.

I'll be glad to add everyone's favorite spots, PM or post any suggestions.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=202083364326811814553.0004b69c9d40f14d29d51

[LilJoey]

People, are there any good bordhels in Kiev, such in moskow or st. Petersburg, where you can choose girls for sex and make sex with them in bordhel without bringing them home? Do you know and have you been in such places?There are many apartments with a bunch of girls in them offering sex. In my first trip to Kiev I asked taxi driver until I found a driver who knew, and he took me on a tour of apartments, but I didn't speak Russian and was afraid that I would never be able to communicate adequately regarding what services I wanted, so I didn't stay even though I had met some cute looking girls at these apartments. We visited at least four different apartments and the driver came with me and led me into each. The local guys know where to get laid inexpensively. Since then I have gone on to investigating other possibilities in Kiev. But I have always considered checking out the girl apartments to be a good option. If you will actually take my advice and read this thread going back until March 2011, you would have seen my discussion and recommendations regarding this option. To overcome the language issue I recommended preparing a printed out sheet with all forseeable questions about services and prices and time etc written out in yes or no answer format in english and translated to Russian using Google Translate. This way you can just point to a question and the girl can just nod or say yes or no. Also to hire the driver to go with you for security purposes. If you visit them, you have an opportunity to be the first to report on these girl apartments in Kiev in detail as I am not aware of any reporting on it of substance within the last year.

LJ

[AColonizer]

If you went alone to brothels in Moscow, you was brave and lucky indeed, as well as you can pay any amount for a pussy fuck. I suggest you not to try the same method because this is the way to spoil the market in Kiev much more than now. It is a wise rule to negotiate in our own flat.


People, are there any good bordhels in Kiev, such in moskow or st. Petersburg, where you can choose girls for sex and make sex with them in bordhel without bringing them home? Do you know and have you been in such places?

[Gentleman Travel]

People, are there any good bordhels in Kiev, such in moskow or st. Petersburg, where you can choose girls for sex and make sex with them in bordhel without bringing them home? Do you know and have you been in such places?There are lots of salons and lots of ways to find them, from web-sites like rusdosug to recommendations.

You will also find guys handing out promo cards on street corners. Normally I just brush by such people and never look at what they are promoting.

But standing in front of TGIF (more or less across the street from the Market) one day and looking for quicky sex (having been stood up by a date) , I was offered cards to 2 or 3 salons within the space of 5 minutes.

They were all located within a block. Even so, I would have had a hard time finding the right door if not for the able assistance of Cruiser D, who was showing me the ropes. Maybe the guy handing out the cards will show you the way, if you ask?

Now my experience in this salon (sorry don't remember the name) was pretty mediocre (girl had floppy tits and spoke no English, plus the whole place was kind of tawdry) but they did have a line up of several girls in the early afternoon and sex was available for a reasonable price. But it pales in comparision to an FKK, for example. So I don't particularly recommend this approach, but if you like the salon experience, it is widely available.

[Climaxnow]

People, are there any good bordhels in Kiev, such in moskow or st. Petersburg, where you can choose girls for sex and make sex with them in bordhel without bringing them home? Do you know and have you been in such places?Without language skills or a friend that can give direction, salons are too risky. The position of total weakness and a group of prostitutes holding all the cards was not for me.

[Ronaldinjo]

Have visited some saloons there recently, most girls look about 7-7. 5, but there have been some 8. 5.9s. Price from 80-150 $ per hour in st. P. And little bit higher in moscow, service was perfect. Don't know whats going on in Kiev. Why I should be brave to go there, I didn't feel any danger and girls were nice. I wonder if is there any danger in Kiev in such places?

[Goodbye Lenin]

I visited 2 salons when was in Kiev last summer. A guy handing out visiting cards in Kreschatik led me there, or I would not be able to get there alone. He showed me 2 apartments, both walking distance from Kreschatik. In the former girls were nothing special, while in the latter there were some cuties. Price was 800 gryvnas per hour in the former and 1000 gryvnas in the latter one. I guess those were prices for foreigners while Ukrainians pay less. The mamasan told me that oral without condom and kissing were not allowed, so I left because with such a poor service I expected I would not get any GFE.

[CallSign Papa]

Holy cow! Where to start?

So for claritiy's sake, you went to a foreign country, to a city (I'm assuming) you'd never visited before, where (I'm also assuming) you had no contacts beyond a girl you'd paid for sex in a different country. You then gave her waaaaaay too much money, and handed over your crown jewels (wallet, phone, passport etc) without asking yourself any of the necessary and critical questions one should ask. One question you definitely should have asked was,"WTF am I doing?".

Gents, if you want a perfect example of how NOT to do things in Ukraine, you now have it.

It's no surprise that both PlantMagic and the one note show that is Acolonizer seek to the blame the GIRL in this instance and not PlantMagic's failure to use common sense, and an adequate dose of caution when entering the unknown in search of easy (if not over priced) pussy.

But some lessons you only learn the hard way.


This time I will make a good profile on mamba. Ru and try to seek hotties before landing Kiev. If I fail, I will go for gia escorts instead Rio club this time. We will see!

And another thing I learned in donetsk, never go to a girl's home, never! I want to share my bad experiences with all mongers.

I met a girl in Cyrpus about 6 months ago. We often met in cyprus. She worked in a strip club there. Almost everyweek, I went to see her. We had very good time. When her contact finish, she wented back her country, ukrain-donetsk. Of course I went to donetsk for her. I would stay in her home, I would pay her 1000 $ for 4 days. Yes, it sounds like a good deal. 4 days with a girl including accommodation would cost only 1000 $. But it wouldn't. There were girl's mom and child in the home with 6 small dogs. 2 cat and 1 bird. There was only 1 room in home and there was no door at the room. As you can guess we could never make sex.

I paid her, we couldn't make sex, even we couldn't stay alone. I asked the refund and as you can guess, she didn't. I tried to go but she already got my passport, my all money, my cellphone, my credit cards, my hotel reservation documents (yes, I also made a reservation before coming for backup). Everything. I was very angry, we argued till morning, I broke the windows, punched the walls, I did everything I could and I could get back my passport and 500 $. She always tried to call somebody while we were arguing, probably police, I am not sure. After I got my passport and 500 $, I also stole the girl's cellphone because she already got mine, ran off the fucking city asap.

Now, I learned this very well : NEVER THINK YOU CAN TRUST A PROSTITUTE AND NEVER GO HER HOME!

Ukrain is very nice country with full of beautiful girls but we need to be very careful. Of course most of you already know this but I didn't. I just wanted to share this with you. Please don't do the mistakes I did.

[Bimbo Boy]

This time I will make a good profile on mamba. Ru and try to seek hotties before landing Kiev. If I fail, I will go for gia escorts instead Rio club this time. We will see!

And another thing I learned in donetsk, never go to a girl's home, never! I want to share my bad experiences with all mongers.

I met a girl in Cyrpus about 6 months ago. We often met in cyprus. She worked in a strip club there. Almost everyweek, I went to see her. We had very good time. When her contact finish, she wented back her country, ukrain-donetsk. Of course I went to donetsk for her. I would stay in her home, I would pay her 1000 $ for 4 days. Yes, it sounds like a good deal. 4 days with a girl including accommodation would cost only 1000 $. But it wouldn't. There were girl's mom and child in the home with 6 small dogs. 2 cat and 1 bird. There was only 1 room in home and there was no door at the room. As you can guess we could never make sex.

I paid her, we couldn't make sex, even we couldn't stay alone. I asked the refund and as you can guess, she didn't. I tried to go but she already got my passport, my all money, my cellphone, my credit cards, my hotel reservation documents (yes, I also made a reservation before coming for backup). Everything. I was very angry, we argued till morning, I broke the windows, punched the walls, I did everything I could and I could get back my passport and 500 $. She always tried to call somebody while we were arguing, probably police, I am not sure. After I got my passport and 500 $, I also stole the girl's cellphone because she already got mine, ran off the fucking city asap.

Now, I learned this very well : NEVER THINK YOU CAN TRUST A PROSTITUTE AND NEVER GO HER HOME!

Ukrain is very nice country with full of beautiful girls but we need to be very careful. Of course most of you already know this but I didn't. I just wanted to share this with you. Please don't do the mistakes I did.PlantMagic, you are drawing the wrong lessons from your adventure. Many prostitutes are nice and honest people and they can be trusted. They are just workers, but in the industry of sex. Then going to a prostitute home can be a great cultural experience.

Your mistake number 1: paying upfront. You should have paid only day by day.

Mistake number 2: surrendering your passport and cellphone. You must be insane! Without a passport you are at her complete mercy.

Mistake number 3: be violent in her house and breaking things. It's so easy for her to call some thugs and have you beaten.

Mistake number 4: arguing all night. You could have called your embassy who would have called the cops. She would be probably even more scared of the cops than you.

Etc, etc, etc, etc.

If you travel abroad with this mind set, then you are putting yourself into very very serious risk.

[Ella1984]

Hello,

I am Elena I am 27 I make nice erotic massages in Kiev.

[Ella1984]

Hello,

I am Ella 27 years, I make Erotics massages with happy end.

[Ella1984]

If somebody intresting please write me email ellamassage01@gmail.com

But I have not smal price for my services only high price with qualyty.

If you not agree don't write me Lg Ella.

[AColonizer]

If honesty is a natural characteristic of humanity, then all people are honest. Plantmagic was wrong because too "honest". And the girl was merely a shark. It was like to steal candies to a child: it is wrong the child because it is a "pure heart" or it is wrong the thief? Men should convince themselves they live in a fairy tale where legal systems have decided women are the "weakest people of a Western society". But what can I do if men think by their own ejaculation need?


Holy cow! Where to start?

So for claritiy's sake, you went to a foreign country, to a city (I'm assuming) you'd never visited before, where (I'm also assuming) you had no contacts beyond a girl you'd paid for sex in a different country. You then gave her waaaaaay too much money, and handed over your crown jewels (wallet, phone, passport etc) without asking yourself any of the necessary and critical questions one should ask. One question you definitely should have asked was,"WTF am I doing?".

Gents, if you want a perfect example of how NOT to do things in Ukraine, you now have it.

It's no surprise that both PlantMagic and the one note show that is Acolonizer seek to the blame the GIRL in this instance and not PlantMagic's failure to use common sense, and an adequate dose of caution when entering the unknown in search of easy (if not over priced) pussy.

But some lessons you only learn the hard way.

[LilJoey]

Hello,

I am Elena I am 27 I make nice erotic massages in Kiev.It isn't proper for you to repetitively place your advertisements for your own services on this thread. You even failed to attach your accurate pictures to your ads. You stated in your earlier ads that you want.

"High money" for your services. Why do you think anyone here is interested in your handjob for high money? It's ridiculous. Say something interesting and show TRUE pictures and maybe someone will pay attention to you.

[Ronaldinjo]

You are something man, banging like some kind of machine. Rokko the Italian porn star can envy you. Nice job man. Lilojey, how is Babylon. Co. Uk in London, are those chiks as attractive as they look in pics? Are those pics real? Are they available all the time? I guess that you go to there places and bang them there and not bringing those chiks home, are you?

[LilJoey]

You are something man, banging like some kind of machine. Rokko the Italian porn star can envy you. Nice job man. Lilojey, how is Babylon. Co. Uk in London, are those chiks as attractive as they look in pics? Are those pics real? Are they available all the time? I guess that you go to there places and bang them there and not bringing those chiks home, are you?I can't figure out what you're referring to, as you didn't include a quote. But I'm

Not a great expert,

Not capable of banging like any kind of machine, and.

Not to be envied by anyone named Rokko the Italian.

I'm just a visitor to Kiev who takes my own advice and reads the fucking forum (RtFF)

Then I go and experiment and try to have a good time in Kiev.

Then I learn from my successes and my mistakes.

Then I go back to Kiev and have even more fun.

This is nothing that you can't do also.

Oh, and I have a bit of common sense and logic, but this is something one is born with or not.

There are guys on this forum with tons more experience than me, but they don't bother to write in detail.

That is the way I have learned how some parts of the Kiev scene work.

Now since you are asking about London on the Kiev thread, I'm going to guess that you picked up a reference to the London scene in one of my earlier posts where I was using it as a reference point to a certain level of beauty, when we were having a discussion here about what was the level of beauty of girls in Kiev in the Rio strip club, and what was meant by a girl being a "9" or a "10". Now this is the Kiev thread, so I can't go into a long discourse on the London scene, but it is relevant because many of the guys who visit Kiev, pass through or come from London.

Now the first thing I said when I started looking at the escort ads of the various agencies advertising on www.londonescortguide.com, including babylongirls. Co. Uk, was,"Holy Shit! Are girls that beautiful actually available? Wow!" Then I started looking at the prices. The girls at 150 GBP. 180 GBP and even 200 GBP were all an acceptable price range comparable to prices at home. If they looked like their pictures it would be a good value because such girls would have much higher rates back home. So I experimented. Sometimes the pics were true, and sometimes they were not. There's no question that London has very beautiful women from eastern europe. But it's much more expensive than in Kiev. So for beautiful girls at much lower cost Kiev seems the better option. But if you are in London and want to do something there, then it is a very good scene at a higher price.

LJ

[It Travel]

Very nice effort. A few suggestions / corrections.

Below are the addresses / websites of the locations identified to the extent I could find them.

Is it possible to include the address, phone and website of each in the box that opens when clicking on a pin on your map? I think it's worthwhile including that info so that a person using the map can simply copy down the address to give to a taxi when they are about to go to a location and they don't need to print out a map and use it as a guide by reference to streets and intersections.

Corrections:

The pin for the Besarabsky Rynok (Market) building is in the wrong place. Move it one block up to Bessarabska Square (opposite intersection of Khreshchatyk Street with Tarasa Shevchenka Blvd.)

The BILLA supermarket I was speaking of originally is located on the Khreshchatyk Street side of the Besarabsky Rynok (Market) building, as you can plainly see from the store awnings bearing the BILLA sign in the photograph I attached hereto.

Also, I'm pretty sure that Roll Buzz was referring to the O'Brien's Irish Bar at the address below (Mykhailivs'ka St. 17/2) , and not the one you have on the pin currently. Which is the one frequented by most mongers, I have no idea. There are many Irish Bars. Maybe someone will tell us which is the best for picking up pretty girls or for some other aspect.

LJ.

ADDRESSES OF SIGNIFICANT KIEV LOCATIONS (in no particular order)

Club Avalon.

http://www.avalon.ua/en/

3 Leontovicha str, Kiev, Ukraine.

Phone: (044) 234 7494

Arena Entertainment Complex.

Baseina St. 2A, Kyiv, Ukraine 01004

+380 44 492 0000.

www.Arena-Kiev.Com

http://www.arena-kiev.com/eng/about/

Shooters Restaurant-Entertainment Complex

Moskovs'ka St. 22, Kyiv, Ukraine. 01010

+380 44 254 2024.

www.Shooters.Kiev.Ua

Vodka Bar

Maidan Nezalezhnosti, Kyiv, Kyiv city, Ukraine

+380 44 371 1102.

www.Vodka-bar.Com.Ua

O'Brien's Irish Bar.

Mykhailivs'ka St. 17/2, Kyiv, Ukraine. 01001

+380 44 279 1584 &8206;

McDONALD'S

Sofiivs'ka St. 1/2, Kyiv

+380 44 501 7927

Rio strip club.

Bogdana Khmelnitskogo street 30/10.

www.rioclub.com.ua

Buddha Bar

Khreshchatyk Street 14.

www.buddhabar.com.ua

D'lux nightclub

Grushevskogo 3.

www.dlux.com.ua

Besarabsky Rynok (Market)

Bessarabska Square (opposite intersection of Khreshchatyk Street with Tarasa Shevchenka Blvd.)

BILLA Supermarket.

Khreshchatyk Street@Bessarabska Square (in Besarabsky Rynok (Market) building)

Mandarin Plaza Shopping Center.

Baseina Street 6.

www.mandarin.kiev.ua/eng/

Gurman Supermarket.

Baseina St. 4

Downstairs inside the Mandarin Plaza Shopping Center.

+38-044-230-9525.Yes pracitcally all the night life (and food sock and whaterver you need if you rent an apartment) is located in walking distance from the Bessarabski Rinok.

Still remember when at the place of BILLA there was a cheap dairy-milk grocey stor serving a pint of fresh UAB beer for 25 € cents.

In the area you have also nice restaurants for takin out the gals you intend to drill.

For amateurs at the base floor of the underground market under the Rinok you have even a bar serving "Illy espresso", the best italian coffee.

In the area there are some sushi bars, and some nice resaturants. One of my absolute favourite is Pervak. http://www.pervak.kiev.ua/ Nice local food (I always eat local).

For food stoking you have the Mandarin Plaza (Supermarket) 24724 and the Rinok (8/17 I think 8/13 or so on Sundays) with wonderful fruit and so on. Both expencive but.

Just my two cents in helping peaople in Kiev.

IT

[Crocodilechik]

Just use the filter on him, empty vessels make the most noise.


You are something man, banging like some kind of machine. Rokko the Italian porn star can envy you. Nice job man. Lilojey, how is Babylon. Co. Uk in London, are those chiks as attractive as they look in pics? Are those pics real? Are they available all the time? I guess that you go to there places and bang them there and not bringing those chiks home, are you?

[RomanyStar]

In the area there are some sushi bars, and some nice resaturants. One of my absolute favourite is Pervak.

http://www.pervak.kiev.ua/

Nice local food (I always eat local).

ITThanks IT, Pervak is on the map now. This is exactly the kind of place I'm hoping to visit while in Kiev.

I hope this map will be a lasting resource for the ISG community. Please send favorites you would like to share.

[LilJoey]

Weekend of February 17 to 21.

Washington's Birthday Weekend.

I have been wrestling with making a decision on where to go for the long holiday weekend in the USA Known as Washington's Birthday Weekend. I had found very low airfare on Air France if I flew into Berlin and returned from Madrid. There was a cheap Easy Jet connection from Berlin to Madrid for about $50, so I could've spent 3 nights in Berlin and 1 night in Madrid for this 4 night weekend and probably been happy. But since there were also cheap connections from Berlin to other places, I also started thinking about whether I should spend all my time in Berlin at FKK Artemis and maybe some of the bordellos reported on in the Berlin thread, or should I go to Frankfurt instead where the FKK Oase and FKK palace were sure things in my experience, or maybe head up to the Dusseldorf area to visit the highly regarded Villa Vertigo sauna club. I would like to thank all those on the Berlin and Villa Vertigo threads for responding to my inquiries in trying to get an understanding of the comparative strengths of the different FKK clubs in terms of good line ups between FKK's Artemis, Oase and Villa Vertigo. After processing all the information, and remembering my own past visits to Oase and Palace, I had all but decided to leave Berlin for another time and go to Frankfurt to hit Palace / Oase and hop on the train up to Villa Vertigo for Saturday night and / or Sunday, because there was also a cheap Ryan Air connection to Madrid from Weeze airport for 35 Euro that I could get on Monday. But then I got to thinking, did I really want to spend 3 nights in a row in FKK clubs this weekend? It really only pays economically if you can keep up the pace of at least three or four girls each night. But that pace is ok the first night, but becomes more challenging on the second and third nights. I ultimately chose to go back to a model that has worked for me in past trips: a weekend in Kiev, followed by a fling in FKK land for one night on the way home.

So for this upcoming holiday weekend I will go to Kiev for Friday and Saturday nights (February 17 and 18) , and then I will go to Dortmund on the cheap flight on Wizz Air from Kiev Zhulyany airport, and will go to Villa Vertigo for Sunday February 19. Monday night February 20 I will go to Flowers Park or Factory Air clubs in Madrid. This trip as now planned has enough variety to keep it exciting and interesting, although it is a lot of flying around. I would have preferred another night in Kiev instead of Madrid, but that's the way it worked out due to the flights I originally booked before I changed my mind and decided that I wanted to go to Kiev this weekend after all.

Now I can't articulate why I felt that I wanted to go to Kiev instead of plunging into 3 nights in a row of an unbridled sexathon in the FKK's of Frankfurt and Dusseldorf areas of Germany. But I did. And it says something about the kind of fun available in Kiev, that makes it preferrable to multiple nights in FKK's. When I figure out how to explain it, rest assured I will post it. But for now, I am happy with my decision to change my trip from solely an FKK excursion, into a combination weekend where I first go to Kiev and then finish off at an FKK for 1 night.

LJ

[Sponsor74]

I'm sure this has been answered hundreds of times, but it's a little tedious to go through hundreds of posts to find the answer, so here goes again. On these websites:

http://gia-escort.com/escorts

http://escort-models.com/en/models/

What are the odds the the girl actually corresponds to the photo? Or it's more likely some older fatty comes over?

ThanksI can confirm Mamba is hard work to find real girls. I have no experience with Top Models, and it seems is cheaper than Mamba regular girls HOWEVER who can inform how accurate are these girls in Top Model with label REAL? Thanks for feedback

[Charisman]

It will help a lot if we can share / maintain a list of verified listings on these sites. However I do realize that this is a moving target given how fast girls vanish on such sites.


I can confirm Mamba is hard work to find real girls. I have no experience with Top Models, and it seems is cheaper than Mamba regular girls HOWEVER who can inform how accurate are these girls in Top Model with label REAL? Thanks for feedback

[Ronaldinjo]

Lilojey, I should mention that your english is perfect. Suppose you are german, never seen germans with such perfect english, and your analysis is very deep, detailed and helpfull to all of us. Thank you for your effort once more. In 2 weeks I'm comming to Kiev for vacation, hope the weather will be fine, hope to find out other places and write here my observations and expiriences. Lilojey, hopefully you can answer to me some questions:

1. Are there going to be less beautifull girls in Rio in January-February, then, lets say autamn, spring or summer?

2. There was written in some reports that it is possible to take home very beautifull girls (10s) on very high prise (400-500$/h) from clubs (delux?). Maybe you know what kind of clubs? Delux? Or others? Where from is possible to take home best looking girls, much higher prices and better quality girls than in Rio? Is there such possibility? What should I do?

Thank you very much dear Lilojey.

[LilJoey]

I can confirm Mamba is hard work to find real girls. I have no experience with Top Models, and it seems is cheaper than Mamba regular girls HOWEVER who can inform how accurate are these girls in Top Model with label REAL? Thanks for feedbackAlthough there are some girls who have been reported in prior posts by myself and others to have used real pics on top-modals. Com, or mamba. Ru, it is not the norm in Kiev, so you must not expect it, and must cease trying to chase this elusive fantasy.

Assume that internet escort agencies in Kiev are using fake pics.

Then proceed with the process of inviting escorts to your apartment / hotel and sending away those who don't appeal to you sufficiently, until something delectably hot shows up. Yes, it's work, but that's the way the guys on this forum have been doing it. Fortunately, in a place like Kiev the population has a lot of hot babes in it, and you have a decent chance statistically to find a nice looking girl standing at your doorstep eventually, if you try enough times.

And if you become tired of this game, you can always spend a little more and go to a place like Rio where hot girls are present in decent numbers, and if you don't want to spend a little more, you can try hitting on girls in the streets or malls.

By the way, all this has been written about in much more detail countless times in past posts. If you truly want to be enlightened, then try reading this forum's earlier posts at the very least for the last year.

Also, by your prior reports, you have been in Kiev before enough times to have known the foregoing. Why not do the girl research next time you're in Kiev and report the answers to your questions?

LJ

[Ronaldinjo]

Lilojey, I should mention that your english is perfect. Suppose you are german, never seen germans with such perfect english, and your analysis is very deep, detailed and helpfull to all of us. Thank you for your effort once more. In 2 weeks I'm comming to Kiev for vacation, hope the weather will be fine, hope to find out other places and write here my observations and expiriences. Lilojey, hopefully you can answer to me some questions:

1. Are there going to be less beautifull girls in Rio in January-February, then, lets say autamn, spring or summer?

2. There was written in some reports that it is possible to take home very beautifull girls (10s) on very high prise (400-500$/h) from clubs (delux?). Maybe you know what kind of clubs? Delux? Or others? Where from is possible to take home best looking girls, much higher prices and better quality girls than in Rio? Is there such possibility? What should I do?

Thank you very much dear Lilojey.

[Stavvrrooss]

Thanks Liljoey for resending me the newbie links, you're right, I should have spent more time reading older threads.

Here goes:

I stayed for 4 days, and rented an apartment for USD 110 / night, had a jacuzzi, quite nice and spacious place actually. Staying in a hotel in Kiev is an absolute waste of money.

Tuesday:

Met a girl that I got in touch with online. She was a stunning 27 year old (I'm 28 years old, very attractive, live in Moscow, so if I say stunning I actually mean stunning for anyone's standards) , with a decent job, we were supposed to meet just for dinner. We went to a nice restaurant, and then, as as she was making it more than clear she liked me, I suggested we continue the night clubbing even though she had work starting at 9 am. When I said let's go to Shooters she was completely disgusted, saying it's a lame place, where old foreigners go to pick up girls. That was obviously poetry to my years, as she confirmed that Shooters is exactly what my friends told me it will be. She suggested instead we go to Buddha Bar. I was surprised to see that such a beautiful venue is in reality a working girl-house. I counted close to 20 PROs sitting at the bar on a Tuesday night. We had a few drinks, and as I noticed my date is tipsy and semi-horny, I told her we now either go to Shooters or to my place. She said "better Shooters". On a Tuesday night the place was almost PACKED at 2 am! So many cute girls, not even funny! I live in Moscow so I'm pretty spoiled with the women around, but there's no place like this in Moscow on a TUESDAY night! Anyway, back to the story. My chick got completely drunk (up to the point where I said no more drinks for you) , so we started making out and literally nearly having sex on music (not my choice, I'm quite discrete and prefer standing at the bar) as what we were doing can not possibly be called dancing. She did warn me in the restaurant that she gets wild when she drinks, but I didn't expect she'll grab my dick and lick my face in the middle of the club. I then started pushing for going to my place, and that's when the whole "not in the first night" thing started. I'm a very straightforward guy and told her during dinner that I'm in Kiev for FUN, and THAT'S IT, obviously she didn't process that part, or her and I had different definitions of the extent "fun" should get to. She said she wants sushi, so we went to the cafe attached to Shooters, and ordered food. For the whole 10 min until food arrived, we made out and she kept massaging my dick. I was horny like hell, but after dinner, same story "not in the first night." We agreed to meet the next night and took taxi home, first dropped me off, then she went to her place. All in all, the night was a complete disappointment for me. These are the nights that I can easily have in Moscow, and since I live there, if the girl is a stunner, I can live with not fucking her the same night we meet. But the whole point of my Kiev trip was not to see the same girl 2 nights in a row. I sms-ed her the next day saying I'm sick, promising I'll be back in Kiev in a month or so, and that I'll call her.

Wednesday:

Met another girl for dinner, that I found on the same website, russiancupid. Com. Not a stunner, definitely looked much better in photos than reality, but with a very vulgar and sexual look on her face, which really turned me on. We had a nice chat, and told me that she is supposed to meet a friend after dinner, and if I want we can meet the 3 of us for drinks later in the evening. I made it clear that I'm in Kiev for fun, fun, and only fun. She smiled and said "look, I can't guarantee we'll finish the night fucking, but we can go out and see where the night takes us." In retrospect, I'm pretty sure I would have fucked her, but after the seeing the Buddha Bar action and remembering the girls in shooters, I decided not to call her anymore.

And I went to buddha Bar.

There were about 10 girls at the bar, out of which 5 of them stunners. The first one I spoke with, I made the huge mistake of telling her I live in Moscow, so she asked for USD 500 for 2 hours. I started laughing and wished her a good night. She told me not to go, but I was already annoyed. Girl number 2 (5 meters away) was gorgeous, about 175 cm tall, over 180 in heels. 23-24 years old. She asked for USD 300. I told her ok, but my whole point of the night was to go to Shooters, so I asked for her phone number and told her I want to meet the next day in the afternoon. She agreed and gave it to me. Then went to girl 3, I negotiated USD 200 for next afternoon, she gave me the number. Then went to girl 4, I negotiated USD 150 again for 2 hours, but she said she can not, under any circumstance, give me her number or meet me the next day.

So with 2 numbers of USD 300 and USD 200 agreed upon, I left the place and when to Shooters.

Wow, wow, and wow again. It turned out that Wednesday is "ladies night" at Shooters, the place was literally packed, I arrived there around 1 am. I spent the night talking to several girls, I'd say 25% of the girls inside were PROs. 75% freebies. I got to a point in which every time I was talking to a girl, I'd see one that I like more, and moved on. After talking to 3-4 of them (minus the ones who didn't speak English. My Russian is quite basic, I can make a 2-3 minutes conversation, but not more) , I saw an absolutely gorgeous blonde, with a very innocent yet playful face. I went to her and started chatting, and I sensed she's a PRO right away. It was already about 4 am, and despite I had at least 2 freebies that I think I could have taken home, I really wanted her. So we started negotiating, she asked for USD 300 for 2 hours, I said "look, it's 4 am, I'll give you USD 150, we go to my place, fuck once, and if you don't want to stay longer, you can leave whenever you want." She stayed at my place until 16:00, so I had her for 12 hours, and paid only USD 150. By far the best experience of the night was seeing her innocent 19 years old face deepthroating (without a condom, and I came her in her mouth). We fucked couple of times before sleeping, we had lunch, and fucked again after lunch. Her story is as follows: she is studying English at university, and she had until very recently a boyfriend from Saudi Arabia who was paying her USD 1500 per month. They broke up, so she wanted to make some cash. I got her number, put her in a cab, and sent her home.

Thursday:

After young blondie went home, I chilled for a few hours, and decided to get one of the hookers from Buddha Bar. I sms-ed the tall one that asked USD 300, regrettably no reply. So I sms-ed the one who asked for USD 200, she replied and said she can come at 19:30. She was punctual, I liked that a lot. The problem was she said she doesn't suck without condom, I said that's a no go for me. She kept pushing for it, I got really annoyed and said "look, I'll give you USD 100 for coming here, it's my fault that I didn't specify this in advance, but if you suck my dick with condom the whole point of sex looses meaning for me". Then she started inspecting my dick for about 2 minutes. It sounds like little time, but when you have someone squeezing your dick to see if any nasty shit comes out of it for 2 minutes, it really seems like an eternity. I was completely turned off, stopped her, and insisted that she leaves. She then said ok ok ok, and started sucking. It was pretty good, fucked her twice.

I was drained out of energy, so I decided to stay home that night. I watched a couple of episodes of Californication, if anyone is interested.

Friday:

Definitely the best night. I went to Shooters, the place was much worse than during the week. There were several cute girls, but for some reason something was missing. I didn't see anything to inspire me, so I decided to go to D'Lux. It's still considered the fanciest club in town, this was my second time in Kiev, the first time I was only there for one night, went to D'lux, picked up a freebie, and fucked her same night AT HER PLACE. Anal included. She then cooked me breakfast, gave me 3 candies (I swear) and ordered me a taxi.

I arrived in Shooters at 2 am, the place was definitely not full. Not empty, but the bar area was almost deserted with a couple of working girls (looked that way). The upper floor was nice, atmosphere was good, people were having fun. I went to the upstairs bar in the tables area, and found a gorgeous girl at the bar, she was with a friend. Initially her friend tried to push me away, she spoke no English, and she was quite rood, she positioned herself in between myself and her friend. Since the 2-3 minutes of Russian that I can speak also include putting a woman in her place when she forgets it, I removed the obstacle quite easily. The reason I went through this trouble is because it seemed to me that her super hot friend spoke perfect English, and I was right. From that point on, the evening was a blast. Great conversation, she had a great personality, I even got her annoying friend a few shots, and spent about 2 hours together. We then took a taxi the 3 of us, took the annoying friend home, and then went to have breakfast. After breakfast we went to my place, and sex was amazing. I even added her on facebook.

To sum up: 4 nights. 1 PRO. 1 Semi-PRO. 2 freebies (out of which one I fucked). Lots of fun. Kiev is by far one of the best places to monger in Europe if not the best (together with Minsk and Kishinev, and then Moscow). I think it's the improved version of Moscow: less traffic, cheaper prices, girls just as beautiful if not more beautiful, and more things to do during the week unlike Moscow which is only alive Thursday-Saturday.

[LilJoey]

Lilojey, I should mention that your english is perfect. Suppose you are german, never seen germans with such perfect english, and your analysis is very deep, detailed and helpfull to all of us. Thank you for your effort once more. In 2 weeks I'm comming to Kiev for vacation, hope the weather will be fine, hope to find out other places and write here my observations and expiriences. Lilojey, hopefully you can answer to me some questions:

1. Are there going to be less beautifull girls in Rio in January-February, then, lets say autamn, spring or summer?

2. There was written in some reports that it is possible to take home very beautifull girls (10s) on very high prise (400-500$/h) from clubs (delux?). Maybe you know what kind of clubs? Delux? Or others? Where from is possible to take home best looking girls, much higher prices and better quality girls than in Rio? Is there such possibility? What should I do?

Thank you very much dear Lilojey.In two weeks when you arrive in Kiev you will find out the answers to these two questions which I believe you must realize are simplistic.

No need to be patronizing to obtain an answer from me to a good question if you have one. You need to read the prior reports on this thread and reread them until you can understand and absorb the information. I will entertain a question from you, if you have a specific intelligent question about something you read in previous posts that was not made clear from the discussions on this thread. If I can see you have made sincere effort to prepare properly for a trip to Kiev and you have thoroughly read this thread for a significant number of months back, then I would be happy to respond to a reasonable question if I know the answer.

Also you really should direct your questions not to me specifically, but to all the veteran mongers in Kiev who have a wealth of information and experience to share.

[Ronaldinjo]

In two weeks when you arrive in Kiev you will find out the answers to these two questions which I believe you must realize are simplistic.

No need to be patronizing to obtain an answer from me to a good question if you have one. You need to read the prior reports on this thread and reread them until you can understand and absorb the information. I will entertain a question from you, if you have a specific intelligent question about something you read in previous posts that was not made clear from the discussions on this thread. If I can see you have made sincere effort to prepare properly for a trip to Kiev and you have thoroughly read this thread for a significant number of months back, then I would be happy to respond to a reasonable question if I know the answer.

Also you really should direct your questions not to me specifically, but to all the veteran mongers in Kiev who have a wealth of information and experience to share.As being portugueese I'm little bit inpatient. I'm reading carefully all your comments guys (as time allows me). Sorry for my english, not the best. Hopefully understood your tactics in Rio and it can help me. I'm an adventurer, had a very nice sessions with 10s in moscow, although exansive ones. About 400 $ per hour, had in st. Petersburg some sessions with 9s. 150 $.200$ p / hour, and some georgeous latvian 9-10 s in riga (200$). You should chek krakov too. Poland, nice girls, good prices. Have been recently in prague to k5 relax. Nice sessions, some beautiful chiks 7-8s mostly, few 9s. Have someone been in k5 relax, how would you compare beauty and sex performance of chekh girls compared to Rio club in kiew? Where there are more beautiful girls? It is common to give an additional tip to Rio girl after 3 hours session? If you have some questions about russia, baltics, poland, chzech republic, former jugoslavia I will try to answer. With respect Fernando.

[The Tall Man]

Thanks Liljoey for resending me the newbie links, you're right, I should have spent more time reading older threads.

Here goes:

I stayed for 4 days, and rented an apartment for USD 110 / night, had a jacuzzi, quite nice and spacious place actually. Staying in a hotel in Kiev is an absolute waste of money.

Tuesday:

Met a girl that I got in touch with online. She was a stunning 27 year old (I'm 28 years old, very attractive, live in Moscow...WOW what a report and a memory for details! I like it. Good report, thanks!

The Tall Man

[Climaxnow]

I got to call B. S. When I see it. First Slavophile promoting Warsaw Moulin Rouge and now Stavroos with Russian Cupid (scam site).

Must be the soccer games and all the anticipated views to this forum. Be careful of any direction that pops up here within the next 6 months.

[Ronaldinjo]

You had a great time I see, congratulations, but why you even one visit Rio?

People, maybe you know how I can recognise take out girls in buddha bar, delux and shooters?

Thanks in advance.

[LilJoey]

you had a great time i see, congratulations, but why you even one visit rio?

people, maybe you know how i can recognise take out girls in buddha bar, delux and shooters?

thanks in advance.this is a good newbie question which i will answer as to how i would do it. others may have done it differently.

i always had the same question you ask. some guys claim to be able to look at a girl's nose and be able to tell if she is a wg. some guys can tell by looking at her ass. some guys base this idea on how she is dressed, and some on the way she looks at you. it may all be a fantasy in their head. or they may be correct. the only way to know for sure is to have conversation with her and get to the point of asking her if she would like to go with you back to your apartment. you may not mention money to her first because she may not be a working girl and she may become angry or upset at you for insulting her and her friends may beat you up. but you can be sure that if she is a working girl, that somewhere in that conversation she will ask you for money. she must. because if she does not mention the money before she goes to your apartment, she does not know if you will agree to her price. she knows that you can say no, and then she must leave and she wasted all that time coming to your apartment. so keep quiet about money until she mentions it. maybe it is your lucky day and you are getting a freebie? when she mentions money and asks a price, then you can begin to negotiate on price, time and services.

this process of chatting with girls who appeal to you in clubs until you find a working girl and then negotiate a price that you can accept etc is time consuming. it is one of the reasons that i prefer to go to rio strip club where i know in advance that most of the girls will go to my apartment for sex for money. the process is much more efficient, speedy and certain at a place like rio (or the old river palace) where only working girls are gathered. in a regular nightclub it takes a lot more time to find the working girls. also price is known beforehand at rio, whereas at nightclub it varies and must be negotiated.

lj

[Prosal]

This is a good newbie question which I will answer as to how I would do it. Others may have done it differently.Intuition is your best weapon. Every "professional" monger should be able to say within 30 seconds which girl is a pro, which is a greedy piranha, and which is a genuine freebie with no materialistic expectations. Many guys fail miserably at that though.

[Ronaldinjo]

Yes it time consuming, but worth trying if indeed there is a chance to grab 10. As for Rio or mamba girls, there is a posssibity to make pictures with them, what is there politics or its individual? Should you tip them in addition to agreed fee?

Thank you.

[Hakan Demir]

thanks for the great report, it would help all newbies like me, but one question; how do you ask a girl about her services? most of the time when i begin talking about what they do or not, they don't like talking about that and turn their back. mostly common answer.

is 'i will make you so happy'. for example i am a fan of bareback and deep throat blowjobs, but how should i enter the topic?

thanks


this is a good newbie question which i will answer as to how i would do it. others may have done it differently.

i always had the same question you ask. some guys claim to be able to look at a girl's nose and be able to tell if she is a wg. some guys can tell by looking at her ass. some guys base this idea on how she is dressed, and some on the way she looks at you. it may all be a fantasy in their head. or they may be correct. the only way to know for sure is to have conversation with her and get to the point of asking her if she would like to go with you back to your apartment. you may not mention money to her first because she may not be a working girl and she may become angry or upset at you for insulting her and her friends may beat you up. but you can be sure that if she is a working girl, that somewhere in that conversation she will ask you for money. she must. because if she does not mention the money before she goes to your apartment, she does not know if you will agree to her price. she knows that you can say no, and then she must leave and she wasted all that time coming to your apartment. so keep quiet about money until she mentions it. maybe it is your lucky day and you are getting a freebie? when she mentions money and asks a price, then you can begin to negotiate on price, time and services.

this process of chatting with girls who appeal to you in clubs until you find a working girl and then negotiate a price that you can accept etc is time consuming. it is one of the reasons that i prefer to go to rio strip club where i know in advance that most of the girls will go to my apartment for sex for money. the process is much more efficient, speedy and certain at a place like rio (or the old river palace) where only working girls are gathered. in a regular nightclub it takes a lot more time to find the working girls. also price is known beforehand at rio, whereas at nightclub it varies and must be negotiated.

lj

[Latexian2]

In my experience WG's in the FSU will bring up the money question within 2 minutes or so. Often there's a little small talk asking for each others' names, which country you're from, why you're in Kiev. The next phrase is often something along the lines of "what are your plans for the rest of the night?" or "are you looking for some company?"

If you are your answer should be something like "I want to have a great time tonight with a beautiful woman like you."

Pretty simple, and the whole process usually takes just 30 seconds to a few minutes. I think you will have more difficulty in trying to keep a conversation going without money coming up to try to see what kind of girl she is and if you have any chemistry before committing.

Also in my experience WG's will be obvious by how much they eye-fuck you. While there's a lot more eye contact in the FSU than in the USA for instance, still WG's will basically stare at you bug-eyed as long as you are staring back, instead of just a few second glance like with most normal girls.

[LivingColor]

I got to call B. S. When I see it. First Slavophile promoting Warsaw Moulin Rouge and now Stavroos with Russian Cupid (scam site).

Must be the soccer games and all the anticipated views to this forum. Be careful of any direction that pops up here within the next 6 months.Climaxnow, do you think Russian Cupid and Moulin Rough in Warsaw are scams? I was thinking of going to Moulin rouge in Warsaw. Should I avoid it? Any tip appreciated.

[Tomux 22]

I think Russian Cupid is a good site. You will find a lot normal girls there.

Yes there is some fake profiles at this site, but its very easy too see by the way they write too you.

[Climaxnow]

Moulin Rouge is not a scam. But someone did post on this forum to skew business that way. I will assume you are connected to the venue. I see it as my duty to help inexperienced hobbyists not be misguided or ripped off. If your going to promote your club, please do it straight up and not through a fabricated report.

[Hillty]

Hello,

I am Elena I am 27 I make nice erotic massages in Kiev.I will be in Kiev in March and I am interested in your services plus any other recommendations you have during my stay. I require a interpreter as well.

Thanks

[LilJoey]

I will be in Kiev in March and I am interested in your services plus any other recommendations you have during my stay. I require a interpreter as well.

ThanksYou are either a phony working with this lady to get her business. Or the most ignorant newbie I've ever seen. This lady expressly says in her posts she wants "high prices" which means she is greedy, and she is average looking for Kiev. There are a number of well reviewed massage salons mentioned on this forum which have low prices and pretty girls like salon dolly or raquena. But don't bother to read the thread. Perhaps it is better you should learn the hard way why that is important.

[Kris420]

Did anyone try these girls? Care to share their experience?

http://www.top-modals.com/?id=5618

http://www.top-modals.com/?id=5317

http://www.top-modals.com/?id=5645

http://www.top-modals.com/?id=3481

[LilJoey]

Yes it time consuming, but worth trying if indeed there is a chance to grab 10. As for Rio or mamba girls, there is a posssibity to make pictures with them, what is there politics or its individual? Should you tip them in addition to agreed fee?

Thank you.

You sound like someone who doesn't care about prices, as long as the girl's looks are good, so for you it probably pays to check out the hot working girls at D'lux and Buddha Bar etc that ask prices like $400 or $500. but don't just cave in on the high demanded prices even for a real looker. Negotiate for a lower price. I never bothered with the higher priced nightclub girls, as I was satisfied with Rio girls at $300/3hrsm

Rio girls get enough. Some ask for taxi fare home. Tipping is not expected but is always appreciated. Lower priced mamba girls probably should get something for good sevice.

Now with your question about taking pictures, you're back to simplistic questions you should know the answer to already by yourself, unless you are living in a cave somewhere aloof from normal human society and commerce. LOL.

I am writing an answer because it seems to me that you are not the only one who is so inexperienced in dealing with prostitutes that you ask such questions and maybe more than one newbie can be helped to avoid being cheated by these seductively sweet looking working girls.

For most of your questions the answer is that there is no rule or generally accepted custom and usage business practice in connection with the trade conducted by Kiev's escorts, so each girl is individual in her preferences and what she is willing to do.

Therefore, you will have to explicitly speak about any practice or action you want to have as part of your time with her and you must obtain her specific agreement up front on all details prior to the exchange of any money.

If you do not have an explicit agreement on any particular you are interested in having, you may expect your desire to possibly be mercilessly denied, and you will have no recourse, as you failed to have an agreement on it in advance. The fault is your own, as it would be in any business and in any transaction in the world.

(Obviously, even if you do have an explicit agreement in advance, many prostitutes try to renege on what they agreed to, but then you might have recourse to witholding payment and dismissing them, if you were smart enough to avoid paying them in advance before the session commences like most dishonest prostitutes demand you do before they proceed to cheat you.

My recommendation is that you may go as far as suggesting that you are willing to display the money to her, let it be counted, and even leave it on a table or shelf from where she may collect it but only after the session is completed before she leaves. In this way, if her concern is that she may be cheated by you if you refuse to pay at the end or say you don't have enough money, this suggestion should be sufficient to prove that you have enough money for her and that you are ready to pay it. So if the girl still insists that you must pay her up front, it is not a good sign because there really isn't any good reason for it, and most likely she does not intend to give you good service and you will not want to pay her later. Therefore, it is a reasonable recommendation that you should pass on such a girl and dismiss her.

If you decide to go along with it and pay her up front as she demands, for whatever reason, such as she is the most beautiful girl you have ever seen and you don't want to lose her, or whatever, then know that you are taking a chance. Sometimes it will be a good outcome and sometimes it will not.)

Therefore, if the thing that you want her to do is a "deal breaker" for you as to which if you had known she was going to say "NO" in advance, you would never have agreed to take her, then you MUST speak about it and obtain explicit agreement in advance. If it is a detail that is something you like but can also forgo, then you have a choice of not getting into discussing it in advance in order not to clutter the negociations with unnecessary details, and hoping for the best and that your charms will sway her to give you what you want, and then if she does not, it is no big deal. Or you can discuss it up front also.

HAKAN DEMIR, another admitted newbie asks: "how do you ask a girl about her services? Most of the time when I begin talking about what they do or not, they don't like talking about that and turn their back. Mostly common answer is 'I will make you so happy'. For example I am a fan of bareback and deep throat blowjobs, but how should I enter the topic?"

Perhaps try to be succinct and reduce the amount of conversation on such topics to the minimum necessary for an agreement to be made. For example, after some pleasantries and sufficient conversation for you to assess the girl's chemistry with you and whether she will provide a good session, during which time she has suggested sex for money, you need to ask about services that are "deal breakers" for you. Perhaps simply state that you enjoy oral sex "bez preservativ" (without condom) and deep, and these are your "deal breakers". A real prostitute has heard everything already. You should be able to discuss sevices details with her.

If a girl cannot even discuss a sexual act at all with you, then you will probably not be able to obtain that service from her and you should pass on her.

Or go to places like FKK's or brothels where discussion of services is expected and is the norm.

If you've been going around a regular nightclub asking normal girls about giving you bareback deep throat, then I don't wonder at the reaction you described. But if it's a WG with whom you were speaking, then her turning her back to you is a sgn that she is not into doing that and you wouldn't want her anyway. So move on untill you find a WG who is interested in your money.

[AColonizer]

Bravo!

I can add an important different point of view from the past: the monger's typical negotiate should be always about price / time and never about services, because it should be natural (first of all, for all prostitutes in the world) prostitutes should be make everything their customers ask in that time.

Usual services should be bareback mouth, pussy and ass. Unusual services are pissing into her mouth, deep fisting, GGG-style gangbang, etc. These unusual services DON'T mean prostitutes ask more cash in exchange of their services. And prostitutes are happy the same. As I have already reported ad nauseam, I saw young men have a quickie or old men make anal fisting with the same tender girl and for the same price.

Now we are in this disgusting scene where men forgot the past and think with their own testicles only.


You sound like someone who doesn't care about prices, as long as the girl's looks are good, so for you it probably pays to check out the hot working girls at D'lux and Buddha Bar etc that ask prices like $400 or $500. But don't just cave in on the high demanded prices even for a real looker. Negotiate for a lower price. I never bothered with the higher priced nightclub girls, as I was satisfied with Rio girls at $300/3hrsm.

Rio girls get enough. Some ask for taxi fare home. Tipping is not expected but is always appreciated. Lower priced mamba girls probably should get something for good sevice.

Now with your question about taking pictures, you're back to simplistic questions you should know the answer to already by yourself, unless you are living in a cave somewhere aloof from normal human society and commerce. LOL.

I am writing an answer because it seems to me that you are not the only one who is so inexperienced in dealing with prostitutes that you ask such questions and maybe more than one newbie can be helped to avoid being cheated by these seductively sweet looking working girls.

For most of your questions the answer is that there is no rule or generally accepted custom and usage business practice in connection with the trade conducted by Kiev's escorts, so each girl is individual in her preferences and what she is willing to do.

Therefore, you will have to explicitly speak about any practice or action you want to have as part of your time with her and you must obtain her specific agreement up front on all details prior to the exchange of any money.

If you do not have an explicit agreement on any particular you are interested in having, you may expect your desire to possibly be mercilessly denied, and you will have no recourse, as you failed to have an agreement on it in advance. The fault is your own, as it would be in any business and in any transaction in the world.

(Obviously, even if you do have an explicit agreement in advance, many prostitutes try to renege on what they agreed to, but then you might have recourse to witholding payment and dismissing them, if you were smart enough to avoid paying them in advance before the session commences like most dishonest prostitutes demand you do before they proceed to cheat you.

My recommendation is that you may go as far as suggesting that you are willing to display the money to her, let it be counted, and even leave it on a table or shelf from where she may collect it but only after the session is completed before she leaves. In this way, if her concern is that she may be cheated by you if you refuse to pay at the end or say you don't have enough money, this suggestion should be sufficient to prove that you have enough money for her and that you are ready to pay it. So if the girl still insists that you must pay her up front, it is not a good sign because there really isn't any good reason for it, and most likely she does not intend to give you good service and you will not want to pay her later. Therefore, it is a reasonable recommendation that you should pass on such a girl and dismiss her.

If you decide to go along with it and pay her up front as she demands, for whatever reason, such as she is the most beautiful girl you have ever seen and you don't want to lose her, or whatever, then know that you are taking a chance. Sometimes it will be a good outcome and sometimes it will not.)

Therefore, if the thing that you want her to do is a "deal breaker" for you as to which if you had known she was going to say "NO" in advance, you would never have agreed to take her, then you MUST speak about it and obtain explicit agreement in advance. If it is a detail that is something you like but can also forgo, then you have a choice of not getting into discussing it in advance in order not to clutter the negociations with unnecessary details, and hoping for the best and that your charms will sway her to give you what you want, and then if she does not, it is no big deal. Or you can discuss it up front also.

HAKAN DEMIR, another admitted newbie asks: "how do you ask a girl about her services? Most of the time when I begin talking about what they do or not, they don't like talking about that and turn their back. Mostly common answer is 'I will make you so happy'. For example I am a fan of bareback and deep throat blowjobs, but how should I enter the topic?"

Perhaps try to be succinct and reduce the amount of conversation on such topics to the minimum necessary for an agreement to be made. For example, after some pleasantries and sufficient conversation for you to assess the girl's chemistry with you and whether she will provide a good session, during which time she has suggested sex for money, you need to ask about services that are "deal breakers" for you. Perhaps simply state that you enjoy oral sex "bez preservativ" (without condom) and deep, and these are your "deal breakers". A real prostitute has heard everything already. You should be able to discuss sevices details with her.

If a girl cannot even discuss a sexual act at all with you, then you will probably not be able to obtain that service from her and you should pass on her.

Or go to places like FKK's or brothels where discussion of services is expected and is the norm.

If you've been going around a regular nightclub asking normal girls about giving you bareback deep throat, then I don't wonder at the reaction you described. But if it's a WG with whom you were speaking, then her turning her back to you is a sgn that she is not into doing that and you wouldn't want her anyway. So move on untill you find a WG who is interested in your money.

[Climaxnow]

Your reports are so well written. If a newbie does not want to read the entire forum, all he has to do is browse your reports. He will have the latest field information plus a guide of how to find a prostitute and negotiate.

[Gentleman Travel]

HAKAN DEMIR, another admitted newbie asks: "how do you ask a girl about her services? Most of the time when I begin talking about what they do or not, they don't like talking about that and turn their back. Mostly common answer is 'I will make you so happy'. For example I am a fan of bareback and deep throat blowjobs, but how should I enter the topic?"

Perhaps try to be succinct and reduce the amount of conversation on such topics to the minimum necessary for an agreement to be made. For example, after some pleasantries and sufficient conversation for you to assess the girl's chemistry with you and whether she will provide a good session, during which time she has suggested sex for money, you need to ask about services that are "deal breakers" for you. Perhaps simply state that you enjoy oral sex "bez preservativ" (without condom) and deep, and these are your "deal breakers". A real prostitute has heard everything already. You should be able to discuss sevices details with her.

If a girl cannot even discuss a sexual act at all with you, then you will probably not be able to obtain that service from her and you should pass on her.

Or go to places like FKK's or brothels where discussion of services is expected and is the norm.

If you've been going around a regular nightclub asking normal girls about giving you bareback deep throat, then I don't wonder at the reaction you described. But if it's a WG with whom you were speaking, then her turning her back to you is a sgn that she is not into doing that and you wouldn't want her anyway. So move on untill you find a WG who is interested in your money.I would like to add. If a pro is not prepared to agree to specific requests and deflects your question with "I will make you so happy" or "We will have fabulous sex" or some variation thereof, either she is not prepared to provide the service you request, or she is hoping to extract an additional fee for doing so. Upselling in the room, when she has your balls in her hands. And even if she does seem to provide the specified service (like CIM) , if you do not have an absolutely clear agreement that it is included in the price (or even if you think you do) , it might turn into an extra when you are in the room.

[Amsterdam09]

Did anyone try these girls? Care to share their experience?

http://www.top-modals.com/?id=3481This one is real. For sure not mothers finest (heavier than on the pics). But although not mentioned I got some pretty nice A-level action.

She could use some pointers on how to suck dick. (suck it in already, it's not a lollypop!)

Would not return.

[LilJoey]

Your reports are so well written. If a newbie does not want to read the entire forum, all he has to do is browse your reports. He will have the latest field information plus a guide of how to find a prostitute and negotiate.I appreciate the positive feedback. Yes, any newbie can click on my name in any of my posts and a box will open up in which one of the options is to "view forum posts" and clicking on that will bring up a list of all of my posts, which you can read through starting at the beginning in or about March 2011. Until then I was a lurker and hadn't posted anything because I felt I didn't know enough to answer questions.

I am trying to be helpful. Just in the same way that I was helped when I read the prior reports of other mongers who had explored and succeeded in mongering trips to cities I had never been to before. For example, right at this moment I am in Santo Domingo, Dominican Republic, enjoying the sexy, darker skinned latinas here. I learned all about where to go here for fun from the great posts and maps prepared by prior mongers. In fact I would never have even come here had I not been recommended to come by some very knowledgeable African American brothers ("brother" mongers, that is to say, as I'm as white as turkey breast) whom I met in San Jose, Costa Rica and in Sosua, Dominican Republic who pointed me in the right directions in those places.

Even though the darker latinas are very sexy, I still can't help dreaming of the awesome beauties of Kiev and looking forward to my visit to Kiev on the Washington Birthday Weekend in a few weeks February 17-20.

But DON'T MAKE A MISTAKE. I tried to summarize in my reports information I had learned from other posts and also from experiences on the ground. But there is much to be gained from reading all the reports for at least half a year or even a year going back in the forum on each thread that is relevant to your travels. In the case of Kiev my interests are narrowed to the best way to spend a quick weekend and screw the hottest chicks I can find 8's. 9's or 10's, at a not ridiculously high price, so I have focussed my own mongering on Rio strip club which has a minimum take out cost of $300 for 3 hours, which I decided I was ok with.

But there are other guys who have interests in the lower cost options and many reports about how to pursue that on the streets of Kiev, in the shopping malls, on mamba. Ru etc and one should read those reprts too, and other guys who have more time in Kiev and ideas on how to spend it on chasing freebies or cheaper p4p, and other guys who have reported on other aspects of Kiev that I haven't really touched on. So there is no substitute for reading the entire thread a reasonably significant number of months back (I suggest from March 2011 as a minimum) , or less if you really have no time.

Do it right and RTFF (read the fucking forum)!

LJ

[Slavophile]

Hey Climaxnow,

I am not affiliated with LMR Warsaw. I was reading LJ's theory about the Euro Cup and warnings and was intrigued by his view point on rates and the mongering scene during that time.

However, since I do frequent LMR Warsaw, I thought about them as an example as a counter argument by pointing to LMR's readjusting of the "contributions" in anticipation for the Euro Cup 2012. Again, they're an organization which relies on volume. Truly I have no argument with LJ, because his point is most likely the case. My view point was more an academic point for the sake of discussion and debate.

I understand where you are coming from though pointing out bogus reports and reports which smell of self-promotion. For the sake of full disclosure, by sheer coincidence I do know the owner, I met him in Prague when I was at Neon Club and was the first to post about LMR Warsaw back in March / April 2011 (they didn't open until late June / July) on the Prague forum. I live and work in Prague, but business brings me to Warsaw often. The owner is a crazy Polish bastard but an awesome guy to have fun with as I experienced in Prague at Neon Club.

Believe me I have already been through these accusations on the Warsaw forum. I am just a fan and proprietor of Le Moulin Rouge Warsaw and they simply came to mind in my counter view of LJ's.

So please trust me when I say, I am simply fellow monger such as you. You are right LMR Warsaw is NOT a scam. They're good people over there who organize things. If you ever get the chance to go, they'll treat you right. www.lemoulinrougepl.com

Anyway, not sure if I have effectively recused myself of collaboration and collusion with LMR Warsaw, but at least I made the effort. Good luck fellas!

God bless the East and their women!

Cheers,

Slavophile.


Moulin Rouge is not a scam. But someone did post on this forum to skew business that way. I will assume you are connected to the venue. I see it as my duty to help inexperienced hobbyists not be misguided or ripped off. If your going to promote your club, please do it straight up and not through a fabricated report.

[Naykan]

I appreciate the positive feedback. Yes, any newbie can click on my name in any of my posts and a box will open up in which one of the options is to "view forum posts" and clicking on that will bring up a list of all of my posts, which you can read through starting at the beginning in or about March 2011. Until then I was a lurker and hadn't posted anything because I felt I didn't know enough to answer questions...Hello, Liljoel,

Can you recommend any fair price hotel next to Rio strip club?

If any more info about that club and girls are highly appreciated.

Thanks.

Best regards.

[Climaxnow]

Hey Climaxnow,

I am not affiliated with LMR Warsaw. I was reading LJ's theory about the Euro Cup and warnings and was intrigued by his view point on rates and the mongering scene during that time.

However, since I do frequent LMR Warsaw, I thought about them as an example as a counter argument by pointing to LMR's readjusting of the "contributions" in anticipation for the Euro Cup 2012. Again, they're an organization which relies on volume. Truly I have no argument with LJ, because his point is most likely the case. My view point was more an academic point for the sake of discussion and debate.

I understand where you are coming from though pointing out bogus reports and reports which smell of self-promotion. For the sake of full disclosure, by sheer coincidence I do know the owner, I met him in Prague when I was at Neon Club and was the first to post about LMR Warsaw back in March / April 2011 (they didn't open until late June / July) on the Prague forum. I live and work in Prague, but business brings me to Warsaw often. The owner is a crazy Polish bastard but an awesome guy to have fun with as I experienced in Prague at Neon Club.

Believe me I have already been through these accusations on the Warsaw forum. I am just a fan and proprietor of Le Moulin Rouge Warsaw and they simply came to mind in my counter view of LJ's.

So please trust me when I say, I am simply fellow monger such as you. You are right LMR Warsaw is NOT a scam. They're good people over there who organize things. If you ever get the chance to go, they'll treat you right.

www.lemoulinrougepl.com

Anyway, not sure if I have effectively recused myself of collaboration and collusion with LMR Warsaw, but at least I made the effort. Good luck fellas!

God bless the East and their women!

Cheers,

Slavophile.I have read the LMR reports and it sounds like a reputable place. With persistence and professionalism, I am sure the proprietors will bring that club up to the level of FKK and Marmalade parties.

[RomanyStar]

In preparation for my March trip to Kiev I have started to carry on some conversations on mamba. So far I have had three advertisers who offer "Sex for money" come back with offers of $100 / hr. This seems out of line. Am I expected to dicker through the messaging process?

The advertisers looking for anything else have not gotten to the point of discussing compensation. All chatty and acting interested. Do I raise the issue of costs and services at all with these prospects?

[Hbengkok]

As being portugueese I'm little bit inpatient. I'm reading carefully all your comments guys (as time allows me). Sorry for my english, not the best. Hopefully understood your tactics in Rio and it can help me. I'm an adventurer, had a very nice sessions with 10s in moscow, although exansive ones. About 400 $ per hour, had in st. Petersburg some sessions with 9s. 150 $.200$ p / hour, and some georgeous latvian 9-10 s in riga (200$). You should chek krakov too. Poland, nice girls, good prices. Have been recently in prague to k5 relax. Nice sessions, some beautiful chiks 7-8s mostly, few 9s. Have someone been in k5 relax, how would you compare beauty and sex performance of chekh girls compared to Rio club in kiew? Where there are more beautiful girls? It is common to give an additional tip to Rio girl after 3 hours session? If you have some questions about russia, baltics, poland, chzech republic, former jugoslavia I will try to answer. With respect Fernando.Well, if you had already many experience (you are not a newbie) in Moscow, SP, Riga and Krakov, I want to ask you whether you could take pictures or videos of the girls? How you negotiate the service (like CIM, anal maybe, or take pics) in those cities?

Thanks & Regards.

[AColonizer]

If you focus on the quality of "sex", you discover they mean pussy condomed fucking only. That means you pay 100$/hour+airfare+accommodation=300$/hour (average). You should understand that rate is good to take any luxury escort in all over the world.

If you spoil girls with those rates now, you pay higher rates in next future. Just as in Moscow, where the P4P is absurd.

You will find a good provider only if you search a lot, a lot, a lot.

I remind what one of the best prostitute in the world (that you folks can't imagine) said to me: "If I am a customer, instead to waste my money in that stupid way, I masturbe me and I get glad again."


In preparation for my March trip to Kiev I have started to carry on some conversations on mamba. So far I have had three advertisers who offer "Sex for money" come back with offers of $100 / hr. This seems out of line. Am I expected to dicker through the messaging process?

The advertisers looking for anything else have not gotten to the point of discussing compensation. All chatty and acting interested. Do I raise the issue of costs and services at all with these prospects?

[LifeSavour]

In preparation for my March trip to Kiev I have started to carry on some conversations on mamba. So far I have had three advertisers who offer "Sex for money" come back with offers of $100 / hr. This seems out of line. Am I expected to dicker through the messaging process?

The advertisers looking for anything else have not gotten to the point of discussing compensation. All chatty and acting interested. Do I raise the issue of costs and services at all with these prospects?I am middle 50's. Had 8 nights in Kyiv (alone) before Lady D (Dnep'are City) showed up.

Was trying to hook up with as many from mamba as I could. Worked 2 months prior to landing!

1st night V (33 yr old legal office worker) met me at 23:00 in nearby "joint".

I was expecting to spend some CASH as she had been writing about some expensive places for us to visit!

She had 1 quick cocktail and begged to go to the flat! SHE ALMOST HURT ME! Wild. Hard. Riding was done!

She became my "come to me and fuck" ALL week long.

My point here is that I worked her UP into a frenzy via Mamba!

I also use the icons to suggest $$$$ (mamba has 1 giving a gift) Use this and they get the idea!

First morning I tried to give her 1000 uah and she refused. Finally took 200 for taxi 's!

Later she was upset I did not buy her a gift other than the booze, dinners, breakfasts.

I felt bad as she was very."very good Girl"! But I also did not want her to think we had any future!

LS Guy

[Timmy011]

In preparation for my March trip to Kiev I have started to carry on some conversations on mamba. So far I have had three advertisers who offer "Sex for money" come back with offers of $100 / hr. This seems out of line. Am I expected to dicker through the messaging process?

The advertisers looking for anything else have not gotten to the point of discussing compensation. All chatty and acting interested. Do I raise the issue of costs and services at all with these prospects?IMHO. 100$ per hour is price for takeout from a Strip club or if you order from Gia, but for nice looking young mamba girl. 100$ but for 2, 3 hours without anal (if you get lucky, maybe that included too) , and a 30-50 extra for anal. For milfs, that price, but for night.

Last few weeks I find more girl who do not want to say her price, and asking me, how much I can pay. So that is for me, fair amount for first meeting.

And if that is not the real girl from photo, what is I always ask to verify, sending her back with no money is guarantied!

Good luck!

[Sponsor74]

In preparation for my March trip to Kiev I have started to carry on some conversations on mamba. So far I have had three advertisers who offer "Sex for money" come back with offers of $100 / hr. This seems out of line. Am I expected to dicker through the messaging process?

The advertisers looking for anything else have not gotten to the point of discussing compensation. All chatty and acting interested. Do I raise the issue of costs and services at all with these prospects?

I receive a strange message in Mamba is the web site working OK, in my computer NO but in my Iphone is ok who can help me?

[LilJoey]

Hello, Liljoel,

Can you recommend any fair price hotel next to Rio strip club?

If any more info about that club and girls are highly appreciated.

Thanks.

Best regards.Naykan, I don't know about hotels, because I have only done apartment rentals from kievapts. Com for all my prior trips to Kiev.

You should address your questions to the whole membership, not just me, since there is a lot of knowledge out there and maybe another monger who has stayed at hotels possesses the information you seek.

Just a tip, though. In general Google Maps contains a powerful search tool to locate things. Click on any pin in a map of an area of your interest in Kiev and a balloon box will open that has options, one of which is "search nearby". Click on that option and a box will open where you can enter what you are searching for, so typing in the word "hotel" to that box will bring up hotels in that proximity on the map.

Also what is it about my recommendation, so often repeated, about the requirement to read the forum going back a year or a half year, that you failed to understand?

RIO QUESTIONS: I have written extensively about Rio. I promise I have held nothing back. Everything I know is in my prior reports. So nothing prevents you from reading what I wrote and learning what I know about Rio. Surely you are not that inconsiderate to want to burden me to rewrite information I have already posted about Rio all over again just especially for you? However, if you have read all my prior reports and have a specific question about something I wrote about Rio, by all means ask.

[Mednag]

Naykan, I don't know about hotels, because I have only done apartment rentals from kievapts. Com for all my prior trips to Kiev.

You should address your questions to the whole membership, not just me, since there is a lot of knowledge out there and maybe another monger who has stayed at hotels possesses the information you seek.

Just a tip, though. In general Google Maps contains a powerful search tool to locate things. Click on any pin in a map of an area of your interest in Kiev and a balloon box will open that has options, one of which is "search nearby". Click on that option and a box will open where you can enter what you are searching for, so typing in the word "hotel" to that box will bring up hotels in that proximity on the map.

Also what is it about my recommendation, so often repeated, about the requirement to read the forum going back a year or a half year, that you failed to understand?

RIO QUESTIONS: I have written extensively about Rio. I promise I have held nothing back. Everything I know is in my prior reports. So nothing prevents you from reading what I wrote and learning what I know about Rio. Surely you are not that inconsiderate to want to burden me to rewrite information I have already posted about Rio all over again just especially for you? However, if you have read all my prior reports and have a specific question about something I wrote about Rio, by all means ask.I agree with opting for apartments over hotels. More cost effective and easier, in my opinion, to use.

Also, you can bring who you want to your 'flat' when you want. Can do 'the make dinner' ploy. Ukrainian women like that!

[LilJoey]

In preparation for my March trip to Kiev I have started to carry on some conversations on mamba. So far I have had three advertisers who offer "Sex for money" come back with offers of $100 / hr. This seems out of line. Am I expected to dicker through the messaging process?

The advertisers looking for anything else have not gotten to the point of discussing compensation. All chatty and acting interested. Do I raise the issue of costs and services at all with these prospects?Why do you feel $100 / hr in Kiev is "out of line"? I believe it is a widely used base price in Kiev and totally acceptable for a beautiful girl.

Can you get girls for less than $100 / hr? Yes, of course. See the ads for some of those girls on top-modals. Com or minuet. Biz or other websites previously mentioned.

However, I would not bother bargaining on the internet with mamba girls who have sent you a normal range price of $100 / hr. I would wait until she shows up on your doorstep and you see what you're dealing with, because you need to take into account in such a negotiation the actual level of her beauty.

If a girl who looks nothing like her really hot profile pictures shows up on your doorstep, and she doesn't look as good as she represented, you have a basis to refuse her original price and offer less. But then you have the upper hand, since she has already made the effort to come to your apartment, which will be wasted time for her if she leaves. So then you can decide to send her away, or say you will consider letting her stay even though her pics were phony but only at a lower price you are more comfortable with.

On the other hand, if the girl who shows up on your doorstep is a great beauty and you really want her, then you might consider her request for $100 / hr for first hour, but then try to get her to stay longer at lower prices. If she likes you, or if she simply needs the money it is very possible to get her to stay longer for less. Every additional hour she stays at lower prices reduces the net rate of the first hour anyway. For example, if she agrees to stay for a 2nd hour for another $50, (for a total of $150/2 hours) , it means that her net hourly rate became $75 / hr.

If you are looking for p4p, you should feel free to ask any girl on mamba. Ru who has in her profile "offers sex for money" or even "looking for a sponsor" the simple question of "what is your phone number and what are your conditions?" This is discreet enough and to the point. You may find you will receive a standard advertisement type response with the requested phone number, rates, and services info. You may also receive an incomplete response, and you will have to follow up for the missing info.

If you are contacting regular girls who don't have in their profiles "offers sex for money" or even "looking for a sponsor" or even say "not looking for sponsor", then you must be more discreet and pursue it as a normal freebie date, if and until the girl herself brings up money.

[RomanyStar]

Why do you feel $100 / hr in Kiev is "out of line"? I believe it is a widely used base price in Kiev and totally acceptable for a beautiful girl.

Can you get girls for less than $100 / hr? Yes, of course. See the ads for some of those girls on top-modals. Com or minuet. Biz or other websites previously mentioned.

If you are contacting regular girls who don't have in their profiles "offers sex for money" or even "looking for a sponsor" or even say "not looking for sponsor", then you must be more discreet and pursue it as a normal freebie date, if and until the girl herself brings up money.LilJoey,

Again your well thought out response answers my question exactly. I have been selecting the hottest girls on mamba, of course I'm not seeing the 300UAH prices often quoted in previous posts. This is not a budget trip anyway, so I will follow your advice, and either pay up, negotiate, or send them away when they get to the door.

RS

[Sponsor74]

[QUOTE=Sponsor74; 1242265]sorry for disturbingyou BUT now my Mamba problem is solved

[LilJoey]

LilJoey,

Again your well thought out response answers my question exactly. I have been selecting the hottest girls on mamba, of course I'm not seeing the 300UAH prices often quoted in previous posts. This is not a budget trip anyway, so I will follow your advice, and either pay up, negotiate, or send them away when they get to the door.

RS300 UAH is often quoted on this forum as a mamba girl's price? All the hot girls I ever wrote to on mamba. Ru quoted 600 UAH or 800 UAH. Some asked $100 which is the same as 800 UAH. Some who considered themselves elite asked $300, and when pressed agreed it was for three hours or two hours. Take a look at photos on top-modals. Com of what girls look like who are asking 400 UAH or 300 UAH. Beware! You are not likely to get a girl who looks anything like a 7, 8, 9 or 10 at such bargain rates from an internet escort website. However, guys have succeeded in getting girls that they saw on the street were pretty, who ended up staying with them and asking or accepting a small amount. 300 UAH is a bit less than $38. It is not likely to get a very hot girl who is a WG for such a small amount. If you are looking for such low prices, and you don't care if the girl is fat or ugly then I guess it's possible. Or you may luck out with a non-pro clueless girl you picked up in the street. But if you are seeking WG beauties, then you will need to be able to also consider those girls on mamba asking 600 UAH to 800 UAH, which seems to me to be what most girls with hot pics on mamba have been asking in response to my messages. And then when she shows up, if she has not used accurate pics, you can try to renegotiate.

Realize also that, for the sake of comparison, in German FKK's as well as other european countries the rate of 100 Euro/hr is a standard base rate for low priced WG services. So paying $100/hr (800 UAH) in Kiev is less than that, and is an improvement on the 100 Euro/hr rate. The $75/hr (600 UAH) rate prevalent also in Kiev is even less than that. Looking at rates in nearby Poland (where 300 zloty is $100) girls who are decent looking can be had for 300 zloty ($100) or 200 zloty ($66) or even 100 zloty ($33) (see odloty.pl and similar wesites). So prices in Kiev are similar, or maybe a bit higher than in Poland.

[Charisman]

From what I gather, the options on the two seem very similar. Both are hit and miss, what you get will be very different from what you see in pics but still can be lot of fun. The question I have is which of these is a better bet? Or what are the pros and cons of mamba vs topmodals when compared to each other? The goal would be to land good GFE from a 7-9 in looks and attitude.

[Gentleman Travel]

I am middle 50's. Had 8 nights in Kyiv (alone) before Lady D (Dnep'are City) showed up.

Was trying to hook up with as many from mamba as I could. Worked 2 months prior to landing!

1st night V (33 yr old legal office worker) met me at 23:00 in nearby "joint".

I was expecting to spend some CASH as she had been writing about some expensive places for us to visit!

She had 1 quick cocktail and begged to go to the flat! SHE ALMOST HURT ME! Wild. Hard. Riding was done!

She became my "come to me and fuck" ALL week long.That is a great story and shows the endless possibilities available in Kiev!

With respect, though, maybe you should have bought her a nice "girlfriend present", with some of that $$$ you had been expecting to spend on her anyway.

[Sponsor74]

From what I gather, the options on the two seem very similar. Both are hit and miss, what you get will be very different from what you see in pics but still can be lot of fun. The question I have is which of these is a better bet? Or what are the pros and cons of mamba vs topmodals when compared to each other? The goal would be to land good GFE from a 7-9 in looks and attitude..

Thanks for your reply to my previous message. I don't have experiences with topmodals and now with your information I have an idea of this site. With Mamba I contact girlds mainly in Kiev and Dnepropetrovsk. In both cities I am the opinion that not all girls are located there and visit these cities from time to time to make some extra money. The action in Dneproüpetrovsk is not big like in Kiev, prices are is some cases cheaper than to Kiev BUT the risk of not real girls is the same in both cities; therefore is hard work and several messages previous to my trips. Apartments for sure cheaper in Dnepropetrovs but flight connections are not good and the prices for flying there 2 or 3 times more than to Kiev. I trust this information help to compare

[Excess]

That is a great story and shows the endless possibilities available in Kiev!

With respect, though, maybe you should have bought her a nice "girlfriend present", with some of that $$$ you had been expecting to spend on her anyway.Very fine advice and attitude, Gentleman T.

EE girls. Perhaps best summed up as per your suggestion: Don`t spoil them with cash, but do provide them with an unexpected and unrequested treat using some of the cash.

A thoughtful "present" if selected with care, even if not terribly expensive, can go a very long way and generate a very heartfelt response that can blow your socks and other appendages off.

Excess.

[Gentleman Travel]

In preparation for my March trip to Kiev I have started to carry on some conversations on mamba. So far I have had three advertisers who offer "Sex for money" come back with offers of $100 / hr. This seems out of line. Am I expected to dicker through the messaging process?

The advertisers looking for anything else have not gotten to the point of discussing compensation. All chatty and acting interested. Do I raise the issue of costs and services at all with these prospects?Like some others have already said, I think counting on getting P4P for much less than $100 is going to be tough. Or at least to limit your options.

Sure you can see some $50 girls listed on web-sites, but I would not count on them being "doable" in the flesh. Especially if you need an English speaking girl.

Just by way of benchmarks, when I visited two years ago, a mediocre salon girl ran me 75 Euros, which is about $100. And lobby girls at a Ukrainian 3 star hotel were asking $125 Euros. River boat girls were asking $200, although eventually I got 2 for that price. So I thought that was pretty good value (but not good quality, in the end).

You better count on $100 base price per session. If you think there is room for negotiation, I suggest trying for enhanced service (like longer time) rather than bargaining down the price.

And you should be prepared to pay $200 for something that you really want, or you may go home regretting missed opportunities.

[AColonizer]

Folks, you should understand! 100$ for the FIRST hour maybe is not bad, it always depends what you get, pussy only can't be more than 50$, must always negotiate, nothing is more important than money, and this is the first rule for a female's brain, and why not for a male's brain? It is not important "to miss a beauty" (but for what?) , it is important we show ourselves to be real male. And a real male never pays what a woman wants. Otherwise we should stay on our countries.

Two hours, four hours and overnight follow a different computation, I paid one of my favourite girls 60$ first hour. 100$ two hours. 200$ four hours. 300$ overnight and we made everything without condom in 2008, and she was a 9 in my hard rating. Now I have found the same girl of last year and we agree for a 250$ overnight and I hope to make funny things like last year, even if she is just a 5/6. There is no reason to pay more. There is no reason to spoil girls in Kiev.

[RomanyStar]

GT & LJ & all the rest.

The reason I am going to Kiev is to spend time with the most beautiful, passionate women in the world. It was a month long process narrowing the destination. I'm now narrowing the methods for finding the perfect contacts for the anticipated week in heaven. I was initially surprised by the $100+ quotes from mamba girls, but now see that I am targeting only the finest. That is OK with me, in fact if it goes $200 / hr I'm OK with that too.

It seems like a budget of $600-$800 / day for mongering, that is direct payments, eating out, and a few gifts should get a couple top tier multi-hour experiences.

I've been browsing a number of the suggested sites besides mamba. Is there any validity at all to those that list "Real","Verified" or "100%" photos?

RS

[Climaxnow]

Lots of good talk on the forum lately about negotiating, but I would not get to hung up on the details. Assuming that you are a regular traveler that wants to meet somebody young and sexy, I would use a 100 US an hour as a basis. But before you do any negotiating, step back a moment and make sure that you are genuinely attracted to the girl. Feel the lady out and make sure you do not have a dragon in disguise.

What ever happened to the art of conversion? Only two hard questions exist in my approach. How much? BJ with or with out condom? Completely not my style to ask about CIM or "but play". Those questions are a bit degrading if your dealing with a semi pro. If my hormones are raging as we chat and she will blow me with out a cover, I will probably have business to consummate.

On the other hand, if your dealing with a hard core skank (I don't do them) , make sure you get every detail clearly specified!

[Member #4274]

Lots of good talk on the forum lately about negotiating, but I would not get to hung up on the details. Assuming that you are a regular traveler that wants to meet somebody young and sexy, I would use a 100 US an hour as a basis. But before you do any negotiating, step back a moment and make sure that you are genuinely attracted to the girl. Feel the lady out and make sure you do not have a dragon in disguise.

What ever happened to the art of conversion? Only two hard questions exist in my approach. How much? BJ with or with out condom? Completely not my style to ask about CIM or "but play". Those questions are a bit degrading if your dealing with a semi pro. If my hormones are raging as we chat and she will blow me with out a cover, I will probably have business to consummate.

On the other hand, if your dealing with a hard core skank (I don't do them) , make sure you get every detail clearly specified!Climaxnow, I could not agree more. I remember in summer of 2010 when I frequented River Palace I would be very careful with who I paid to come back to my flat. Some girls were all business from the get-go and that really turned me off. There were some very sexy women at River Palace but you would see them speaking with a guy, leave with him and one hour later be standing in front of the bar smoking innumerable cigarettes and waiting to be approached again. Indeed, these girls turned me off. It would be like fucking a robot.

I would much prefer to offer them to sit with me, buy them a drink and speak for 20-30 minutes. Real skanks would not be inclined to do this but begin asking immediately 'So, do you want to go to your flat now? ' and would seem on edge. The real worth while women wanted to get a feel for you and see if they would be safe in your presence. They engaged in conversation and seemed more human. Once we got back to my flat, I would ask them 'What will you do after this, go back to River Palace? ' They would frown and say 'No, I am going home to sleep. I hate River Palace and only go there when I need money'.

Anyway, I met some real stunners at River Palace and even met with some of their roomates at a later date. I keep them on my vkontakte in case I return to Kyiv.

[LilJoey]

GT & LJ & all the rest.

The reason I am going to Kiev is to spend time with the most beautiful, passionate women in the world. It was a month long process narrowing the destination. I'm now narrowing the methods for finding the perfect contacts for the anticipated week in heaven. I was initially surprised by the $100+ quotes from mamba girls, but now see that I am targeting only the finest. That is OK with me, in fact if it goes $200 / hr I'm OK with that too.

It seems like a budget of $600-$800 / day for mongering, that is direct payments, eating out, and a few gifts should get a couple top tier multi-hour experiences.

I've been browsing a number of the suggested sites besides mamba. Is there any validity at all to those that list "Real","Verified" or "100%" photos?

RSFrom your questions I can see that you haven't yet read my previous posts which answer these questions. Why not?

Do the words "Real photos" mean that the photos are real? No guarantee. Sometimes the photos are real and sometimes not. So the answer is "maybe". I have been with two girls who advertise on top-modals. Com as well as mamba. Ru who both use real photos, so I know there are some girls who do. And I know from reading the forum that other girls do not. This goes for all the internet websites with prices like $75 (600 UAH) or $100 (800 UAH). It is unknown whether websites asking $150 / hr or $200 / hr are legit or not. Why don't you try some of them and report on it. There were two exceptions, vodkaescort. Com which is now out of business, and gia-escort which are reported to use true pics.

As to what rate you will have to pay to be with a beauty? Don't be caving in to pay $200 / hour so quickly. You might luck out with a beautiful internet website escort who asks for $75 or $100 / hr. You will only know if you are willing to try enough times with some persistence. You might be able to pick up a girl in street or shop for those low prices too. It's been done, but is not a guaranteed result. If you don't want to waste time on waiting to see what kind of girl shows up at your doorstep, then avoid internet escorts. I only recommend chasing internet escorts for daytime mongering, because at night there are more fruitful options to get beauties if you have the cash. The only way to know in advance and be sure right from the beginning that she's a beauty, is to choose a girl whom you have actually seen first and selected, whether at a strip club, nightclub or on the street. At Rio you can get beauties at $100 / hr rate but with a minimum of 3 hrs. It will cost you a little bit more at gia-escort. In night spots such as Buddha Bar or D'lux, you can negotiate with the beauties and sometimes get $300/2hrs (which is $150 / hr) or you may have to pay $400/2 hours if she won't come down in price and you must have her. This information is in the prior posts with further details and analysis. If you want to plan your visit properly, you know what you have to do. RTFF!

[Bunty5269]

Interested in model types and have mongered lightly around the globe. Price is not that important but beauty (model types meaning beautiful face and body. Sometimes like voluptuous sometimes little skinny). Followed the senior's recommendations here and set up a profile on mamba. Trolled through hundred of ads and finalized a few have collected multiple phone numbers and have four categories, must-do, shortlisted, may-bes and all. Rates are all over. From great looking ones at 200$ a night to ordinary ones at $500 a night and so on.

I am in Kiev in mid-feb and will be staying at Intercon. Reach on a Friday and stay over the weekend for fun and Monday onwards work. Crave for GFE and don't see anybody (when I know it) who doesn't do DFK, like DATY and BBBJ but BBBJ is not a deal breaker for me.

Now the question, I got hit on mamba by two seemingly non-pros. Nothing in their profile suggests semi's as well. Carried out lengthy conversations and now have a date with both of them on 2 different evenings. Yikes! Haven't had a freebie since before marriage and don't really care for freebies in general. Time and emotional issues (the only area my SO services well). One of them is hot the other is very pretty but plump (would never pay for that) , what do I do? Need my evenings to hit the model type pussy but prospect of sex with someone who is into it for sake of sex is quite tempting. Both want lingerie and I have dropped multiple hints on seeing them in it and they both haven't said no but have been coy!

HELP!

[FoxesHunter]

Hi, I know fine South America but never have fucked in Europe. I'm on budget. If you know fine Europe, can you tell me what country is the cheapest for fucking? Thank you!

[Climaxnow]

Hi, I know fine South America but never have fucked in Europe. I'm on budget. If you know fine Europe, can you tell me what country is the cheapest for fucking? Thank you!The country where you can find a free one. (smiley face)

[Bimbo Boy]

The country where you can find a free one. (smiley face)I believe it's Spain. Cheapest + excellent quality / price ratio!

[FoxesHunter]

I believe it's Spain. Cheapest + excellent quality / price ratio!I'm sorry but I think you don't know all Europa. .

If there are those prices I have just seen, I will go to South America again.

[Prosal]

I believe it's Spain. Cheapest + excellent quality / price ratio!BB. I don't know why you bother to answer to such a character. Check his background.

[LilJoey]

I believe it's Spain. Cheapest + excellent quality / price ratio!You need to give references and specifics to back up what you say. I am familiar with the scene in Madrid. P4p in Spain in places like Flowers Park or Factory Air is above the 100 Euro per hour mark. Look at the posts in the threads for Spain. That's more expensive than Kiev where girls can be had for $75 (600 UAH) or $50 (400 UAH) see ads on top-modals. Com or on websites like xmodel. Com. Ua, relaxportal. Biz, uadosug. Com, minuet. Biz, and many others.

Take a look at Poland too if you want pretty girls for cheap. See for example the prices on odloty. Pl or roksa. Pl as samples. Some girls are asking 100 zloty / hr which is $33, and some 150 zloty which is $50. Or see the reports and map of Alphatester in the applicable thread in Warsaw regarding cheap apartment girls.

So I would answer cheapest good looking girls advertised with prices on internet would be in Ukraine or Poland

[LilJoey]

Interested in model types and have mongered lightly around the globe. Price is not that important but beauty (model types meaning beautiful face and body. Sometimes like voluptuous sometimes little skinny). Followed the senior's recommendations here and set up a profile on mamba. Trolled through hundred of ads and finalized a few have collected multiple phone numbers and have four categories, must-do, shortlisted, may-bes and all. Rates are all over. From great looking ones at 200$ a night to ordinary ones at $500 a night and so on.

I am in Kiev in mid-feb and will be staying at Intercon. Reach on a Friday and stay over the weekend for fun and Monday onwards work. Crave for GFE and don't see anybody (when I know it) who doesn't do DFK, like DATY and BBBJ but BBBJ is not a deal breaker for me.

Now the question, I got hit on mamba by two seemingly non-pros. Nothing in their profile suggests semi's as well. Carried out lengthy conversations and now have a date with both of them on 2 different evenings. Yikes! Haven't had a freebie since before marriage and don't really care for freebies in general. Time and emotional issues (the only area my SO services well). One of them is hot the other is very pretty but plump (would never pay for that) , what do I do? Need my evenings to hit the model type pussy but prospect of sex with someone who is into it for sake of sex is quite tempting. Both want lingerie and I have dropped multiple hints on seeing them in it and they both haven't said no but have been coy!

HELP!If for you the beauty is more important and the price is not so important, why are you wasting ALL your time in a three day weekend on mamba girls, instead of heading to Rio strip club, or Buddha Bar or D'lux nightclub in the three evenings you have in Kiev, which is where the really beautiful working girls are to be found at a little higher price?

All your work on mamba your thought as to how the girls look and your categories of "must do, shortlist etc" will all come crashing down when you learn that the pictures were all fake and your plans an illusion and a fantasy. You failed to know this because you failed to read the past posts on this thread, which you must do to properly prepare.

Why is it that you haven't read the thread even enough to know that the pics used are for the most part fake "bait and switch" ads?

You want to know what to do with the two mamba freebies? Don't give them a moment of your precious evening time in your short Kiev weekend, because they will cock block you from having sex with the beautiful working girls you came to Kiev for. Only meet with these two mamba freebie girls during the daytime, work your magic, invite them for the lingerie session like you suggested, and if you don't get into their pants right away, cut them loose and tell them you will see them again next trip. Remember dating freebies is at the expense of fucking working girls who don't waste your time. You need to balance how much time you are willing to give a potential freebie girl, against how much time you need for the p4p with Kiev's hotties, lest you leave Kiev all backed up and blue balls. LOL

[AColonizer]

Oooffh, pay more never mean to get more, that is the best way to get cheated, and to inflate market prices, and to make all over the world with the same type of Western-style females! It is probably you are another who likes to listen (fake) moins. I don't!


GT & LJ & all the rest.

The reason I am going to Kiev is to spend time with the most beautiful, passionate women in the world. It was a month long process narrowing the destination. I'm now narrowing the methods for finding the perfect contacts for the anticipated week in heaven. I was initially surprised by the $100+ quotes from mamba girls, but now see that I am targeting only the finest. That is OK with me, in fact if it goes $200 / hr I'm OK with that too.

It seems like a budget of $600-$800 / day for mongering, that is direct payments, eating out, and a few gifts should get a couple top tier multi-hour experiences.

I've been browsing a number of the suggested sites besides mamba. Is there any validity at all to those that list "Real","Verified" or "100%" photos?

RS

[Bunty5269]

If for you the beauty is more important and the price is not so important, why are you wasting ALL your time in a three day weekend on mamba girls, instead of heading to Rio strip club, or Buddha Bar or D'lux nightclub in the three evenings you have in Kiev, which is where the really beautiful working girls are to be found at a little higher price?

All your work on mamba your thought as to how the girls look and your categories of "must do, shortlist etc" will all come crashing down when you learn that the pictures were all fake and your plans an illusion and a fantasy. You failed to know this because you failed to read the past posts on this thread, which you must do to properly prepare.

Why is it that you haven't read the thread even enough to know that the pics used are for the most part fake "bait and switch" ads?

You want to know what to do with the two mamba freebies? Don't give them a moment of your precious evening time in your short Kiev weekend, because they will cock block you from having sex with the beautiful working girls you came to Kiev for. Only meet with these two mamba freebie girls during the daytime, work your magic, invite them for the lingerie session like you suggested, and if you don't get into their pants right away, cut them loose and tell them you will see them again next trip. Remember dating freebies is at the expense of fucking working girls who don't waste your time. You need to balance how much time you are willing to give a potential freebie girl, against how much time you need for the p4p with Kiev's hotties, lest you leave Kiev all backed up and blue balls. LOLThis was a kick in the pants I needed! I am now looking for Rio hotties in the forum, along with Dlux and Buddha Bar.

B

[Gentleman Travel]

Now the question, I got hit on mamba by two seemingly non-pros. Nothing in their profile suggests semi's as well. Carried out lengthy conversations and now have a date with both of them on 2 different evenings. Yikes! Haven't had a freebie since before marriage and don't really care for freebies in general. Time and emotional issues (the only area my SO services well). One of them is hot the other is very pretty but plump (would never pay for that) , what do I do? Need my evenings to hit the model type pussy but prospect of sex with someone who is into it for sake of sex is quite tempting. Both want lingerie and I have dropped multiple hints on seeing them in it and they both haven't said no but have been coy!If you buy them lingerie, you can reasonably expect to see them modelling it for you that same afternoon.

Meet her for lunch or drinks, keep up the banter about lingerie.

If they are still interested, take her lingerie shopping, which will be a fun experience in itself (but make sure you understand the price points of different shops).

Keep the purchase in your hot little hands and suggest you go back to your place for her to model the lingerie and have some champagne.

If she plays coy or refuses, ditch her and return your purchases immediately. Do NOT let her take them.

Assuming she does agree to model the lingerie I don't see how you can fail.

This is almost fool-proof with Ukrainian girls.

[LilJoey]

This was a kick in the pants I needed! I am now looking for Rio hotties in the forum, along with Dlux and Buddha Bar.

BYou can't look for Rio hotties "in the forum". You must get your ass into the club and examine the merchandise first hand. Same for D'lux and Buddha Bar. You need to see the girls to decide what appeals to you. You need to speak with the girls to see if there is any rapport or chemistry. And at least in Rio, you need to feel up the girls and make out with them, as is possible in a private dance in a strip club, for the same reason. This is no armchair search, friend. You've got to get out there and do it. Up close and personal. But that is all the fun.

You can't plan this sex vacation from your armchair in front of the computer based on pictures in websites because of all the fake pictures. The exception is gia-escort. Com, where you can select the girls whose appearance and services appeal to you. However the prices at gia-escort are higher than in Rio for the 1 hour date and 2 hour date, and for a number of the girls even the three hour date is a higher price than at Rio. On the other hand the services of gia girls are advertised whereas Rio it is something you must find out by guessing or asking about in advance or by trying to get once you get them to your apartment. Also gia girls can be ordered for a date during the daytime, whereas Rio girls is strictly a nightime (after 8pm opening time) pursuit.

Do yourself a favor and read the prior posts, at least those of mine that were referenced by Latexian in his post on Reports of Distinction. You will get a good understanding of the operating environment and the pros and cons of each direction. Just make sure that whatever you choose to do during the daytimes, that you are well rested and clear headed for your three evenings you have to play in Kiev. Then,"let the games begin"!

[Midas987]

You need to give references and specifics to back up what you say. I am familiar with the scene in Madrid. P4p in Spain in places like Flowers Park or Factory Air is above the 100 Euro per hour mark. Look at the posts in the threads for Spain. That's more expensive than Kiev where girls can be had for $75 (600 UAH) or $50 (400 UAH) see ads on top-modals. Com or on websites like xmodel. Com. Ua, relaxportal. Biz, uadosug. Com, minuet. Biz, and many others.

Take a look at Poland too if you want pretty girls for cheap. See for example the prices on odloty. Pl or roksa. Pl as samples. Some girls are asking 100 zloty / hr which is $33, and some 150 zloty which is $50. Or see the reports and map of Alphatester in the applicable thread in Warsaw regarding cheap apartment girls.

So I would answer cheapest good looking girls advertised with prices on internet would be in Ukraine or PolandPolland site odloty is a total scam in my opinion, regarding the god looking girls.

Just fake pictures, you wait for 2 hours the angel to come, and devil apears. Don't loose time

Also ukrainian sites are totally fake, omly in mamba. Ru there are 5% real girls, but usually they say I am 1, 75m, and come been actually 1. 62m!

They apologise,"I mean in high heels" I have 1, 75m!

[Bimbo Boy]

You need to give references and specifics to back up what you say. I am familiar with the scene in Madrid. P4p in Spain in places like Flowers Park or Factory Air is above the 100 Euro per hour mark. Look at the posts in the threads for Spain. That's more expensive than Kiev where girls can be had for $75 (600 UAH) or $50 (400 UAH) see ads on top-modals. Com or on websites like xmodel. Com. Ua, relaxportal. Biz, uadosug. Com, minuet. Biz, and many others.

Take a look at Poland too if you want pretty girls for cheap. See for example the prices on odloty. Pl or roksa. Pl as samples. Some girls are asking 100 zloty / hr which is $33, and some 150 zloty which is $50. Or see the reports and map of Alphatester in the applicable thread in Warsaw regarding cheap apartment girls.

So I would answer cheapest good looking girls advertised with prices on internet would be in Ukraine or PolandMy brother works in Spain. He tells me he gets student girls and young mothers for 50€ all the time. He also tells me that you can get plain Chinese women for 20€ in Spain.

With a 40% unemployment rate amongst people younger than 30 years old, cheap p4p can now be found in Europe. One doesn't need to go to Rio de Janeiro or Bangkok.

Plus Spain has lots of brothels everywhere.

What you say about Poland is interesting. Girls are beautiful and passionate there. With their economy doing pretty well, I was expecting a rise in prices.

[LilJoey]

My brother works in Spain. He tells me he gets student girls and young mothers for 50€ all the time. He also tells me that you can get plain Chinese women for 20€ in Spain.

With a 40% unemployment rate amongst people younger than 30 years old, cheap p4p can now be found in Europe. One doesn't need to go to Rio de Janeiro or Bangkok.

Plus Spain has lots of brothels everywhere.

What you say about Poland is interesting. Girls are beautiful and passionate there. With their economy doing pretty well, I was expecting a rise in prices.BB, I was asking you for a pointed reason. I will be in Madrid for the evening of Monday, February 20. If 50 Euro / hr girls who are 8's or 9's are available for p4p in Madrid, I would like very much to know where and when! That a guy who works and lives in Spain can get student girls and young mothers for p4p at the rate of 50 Euro / hr, doesn't help a visiting monger on a short visit without further specifics and direction. One needs need to know specifically where to go (if there is a club, bar or brothel where these young students / mothers are available for 50 Euros / hr) , or the internet address (if there is a website where they advertise). Otherwise the vague assertion that it's possible for somebody who lives there is not applicable or useful in practical terms.

Failing more specifics about cheaper p4p in Madrid, I need to follow the info available on the Madrid thread on this forum, and will probably go to Flowers Park or Factory Air clubs where the asking price is around 150 Euro per hour but can sometimes be negotiated downward, especially if booking longer than 1 hour. Or I will try out some of the website girls like on photoescorts. Com who are good looking enough to meet my standards (8's or above) even though they are asking 150 Euro / hr. And I will see if the pics are accurate or bait and switch like in Kiev. There are a number of places mentioned in the Madrid thread where you can get girls for 50 Euro for half an hour. But that translates into 100 Euro per hour. And they don't look so hot. Most internet escorts in Madrid who look really good are seeking 150 Euro per hour. My impression has been that for really hot girls on the level of an 8 or 9, prices are significantly higher in Madrid than what is possible in Kiev, where internet escorts are advertising prices of 400 UAH ($50) or 600 UAH ($75) per hour (whose pics may admittedly be fake) and Rio strip club girls are available at $300/3 hours ($100 / hr rate). So please teach me and show me the way to find the hotties in Madrid at lower prices than Kiev or Warsaw. I will truly be glad to be corrected in this matter.

Yes, Poland is very interesting to me too, and some of the gals on odloty. Pl and other websites asking 150 zloty / hour ($50) are pretty hot. I don't know if the pics are accurate or fake like in Kiev, though. Warsaw and Krakow are definitely on my list of places to check out.

[LilJoey]

Polland site odloty is a total scam in my opinion, regarding the god looking girls.

Just fake pictures, you wait for 2 hours the angel to come, and devil apears. Don't loose time

Also ukrainian sites are totally fake, omly in mamba. Ru there are 5% real girls, but usually they say I am 1, 75m, and come been actually 1. 62m!

They apologise,"I mean in high heels" I have 1, 75m!Damn. I was afraid that the Polish websites were mostly fake pictures too. But they often blur the faces, so I was hoping that maybe in those pics where the face is blurred, that the body was true.

Please tell me though, did you personally try girls from the odloty. Pl website as a basis of making that assertion, or are you quoting others?

[Hbengkok]

My brother works in Spain. He tells me he gets student girls and young mothers for 50€ all the time. He also tells me that you can get plain Chinese women for 20€ in Spain.

With a 40% unemployment rate amongst people younger than 30 years old, cheap p4p can now be found in Europe. One doesn't need to go to Rio de Janeiro or Bangkok.

Plus Spain has lots of brothels everywhere.

What you say about Poland is interesting. Girls are beautiful and passionate there. With their economy doing pretty well, I was expecting a rise in prices.Like Liliejoy said, you must be specific about where to get those women / girls, bro. Maybe smaller cities not in Madrid? Or street girls?

[Naykan]

BB, I was asking you for a pointed reason. I will be in Madrid for the evening of Monday, February 20. If 50 Euro / hr girls who are 8's or 9's are available for p4p in Madrid, I would like very much to know where and when! That a guy who works and lives in Spain can get student girls and young mothers for p4p at the rate of 50 Euro / hr, doesn't help a visiting monger on a short visit without further specifics and direction. One needs need to know specifically where to go (if there is a club, bar or brothel where these young students / mothers are available for 50 Euros / hr) , or the internet address (if there is a website where they advertise). Otherwise the vague assertion that it's possible for somebody who lives there is not applicable or useful in practical terms.

Failing more specifics about cheaper p4p in Madrid, I need to follow the info available on the Madrid thread on this forum, and will probably go to Flowers Park or Factory Air clubs where the asking price is around 150 Euro per hour but can sometimes be negotiated downward, especially if booking longer than 1 hour. Or I will try out some of the website girls like on photoescorts. Com who are good looking enough to meet my standards (8's or above) even though they are asking 150 Euro / hr. And I will see if the pics are accurate or bait and switch like in Kiev. There are a number of places mentioned in the Madrid thread where you can get girls for 50 Euro for half an hour. But that translates into 100 Euro per hour. And they don't look so hot. Most internet escorts in Madrid who look really good are seeking 150 Euro per hour. My impression has been that for really hot girls on the level of an 8 or 9, prices are significantly higher in Madrid than what is possible in Kiev, where internet escorts are advertising prices of 400 UAH ($50) or 600 UAH ($75) per hour (whose pics may admittedly be fake) and Rio strip club girls are available at $300/3 hours ($100 / hr rate). So please teach me and show me the way to find the hotties in Madrid at lower prices than Kiev or Warsaw. I will truly be glad to be corrected in this matter.

Yes, Poland is very interesting to me too, and some of the gals on odloty. Pl and other websites asking 150 zloty / hour ($50) are pretty hot. I don't know if the pics are accurate or fake like in Kiev, though. Warsaw and Krakow are definitely on my list of places to check out.Hi Liljoey,

I was in Madrid at the end of November. I was in "vive club" very close to santiago bernabau stadium. It was Saturday night and there were around 30-40 girls. Half of them 7/8. Ukranian, Romanian, brasil, spanish and cyprus. I tried one ukranian one Romanian and one cyprus. Sex was good. All of them were kissing and oral without condom. The price is 110 euro for one sex. May be high but I think worth to it. Entrance is free. I didn't drink alcohol but a bottle of water was 10 euro. You don't need to buy drinks for girls. They are walking or dancing around the bar you just go and talk to them to be sure about their services. The rooms available in the club. Not very fancy but quiet ok.

No need to pick up the girls to hotel. That is what I like.

People told me club vive is the best in madrid about this concept. If you have any further questions, I am happy to help you. I read your Kiev reports everyday with pleasure and planning to go there this spring.

Take care.

Regards,

Naykan

[TheKnight]

This was a kick in the pants I needed! I am now looking for Rio hotties in the forum, along with Dlux and Buddha Bar.

BVery sound advice from my old friend LJ and GT also. But bear in mind some genuine girls have day time jobs and cannot meet in the day. I met my last 2 GFs on Mamba. 100% genuine freebies. Met first girl in the evening, didn't have sex first night, we parted around 0130 and I went to Rio as I recall. Second girl bedded on first night!

[LilJoey]

Interested in model types and have mongered lightly around the globe. Price is not that important but beauty (model types meaning beautiful face and body. Sometimes like voluptuous sometimes little skinny). ******* I got hit on mamba by two seemingly non-pros. Nothing in their profile suggests semi's as well. Carried out lengthy conversations and now have a date with both of them on 2 different evenings. Yikes! Haven't had a freebie since before marriage and don't really care for freebies in general. Time and emotional issues (the only area my SO services well). One of them is hot the other is very pretty but plump (would never pay for that) , what do I do? Need my evenings to hit the model type pussy but prospect of sex with someone who is into it for sake of sex is quite tempting. Both want lingerie and I have dropped multiple hints on seeing them in it and they both haven't said no but have been coy! HELP!
You want to know what to do with the two mamba freebies? Don't give them a moment of your precious evening time in your short Kiev weekend, because they will cock block you from having sex with the beautiful working girls you came to Kiev for. Only meet with these two mamba freebie girls during the daytime, work your magic, invite them for the lingerie session like you suggested, and if you don't get into their pants right away, cut them loose and tell them you will see them again next trip. Remember dating freebies is at the expense of fucking working girls who don't waste your time. You need to balance how much time you are willing to give a potential freebie girl, against how much time you need for the p4p with Kiev's hotties, lest you leave Kiev all backed up and blue balls. LOLVery sound advice from my old friend LJ and GT also. But bear in mind some genuine girls have day time jobs and cannot meet in the day. I met my last 2 GFs on Mamba. 100% genuine freebies. Met first girl in the evening, didn't have sex first night, we parted around 0130 and I went to Rio as I recall. Second girl bedded on first night!Well, ok, Bunty5269, since it will be worth it for other newbies to read, and in deference to the comment by TheKnight, I will revise my answer to you as follows:

If you are as good looking and smooth talking as TheKnight in chasing devushkas, then you may spend some of your THREE evenings in Kiev on your hopeful freebies too, if they are truly not available during the daytime (when it is easier to go shopping with them as GT suggested). But try to bring things to a head in the early evening, so there will still be time for p4p at Rio, if your freebie refuses sex on that date. Don't let her cock block you completely from having sex at all that night. You only have three action nights in Kiev during your weekend there.

Therefore, if you do meet with freebie date in the evening, make it as early in the evening as possible, and try to conduct matters so that you can find out by no later than 9:00pm or 10:00pm if you are getting into her pants that night. I would caution you to keep your eye on the clock, because you will need to get into Rio club by no later than around 10:00pm in order to effectively monger there in your first visits.

There is an advised procedure described in detail in prior posts, which you should read, for how to conduct yourself at Rio in order to find a date in Rio that is most likely to be a GFE. Please note that it necessarily takes some time. Please also note that the closing time at Rio strip club is at 5:00am, and most girls will want to return from your apartment to the Rio club to collect their share of money. Because of this a 3 hour minimum date with a Rio girl must usually begin by 2:00am. Generally, you will find that after 2:00am, many of the girls in Rio will say that they cannot stay with you for the full 3 hours as they must return to the Rio club by 5:00am, or they may say it is too late for a date because they must go home at 5:00am to get sleep before whatever they have to do the next day (some attend university during the day). It has been sometimes possible for one of us mongers to get a Rio girl to agree to stay at our apartment past 5:00am, but that is the exception, not the rule. So after 2:00am in Rio, you will be faced with the choice of being short-changed on the time because you will have to pay $300 even though you will only have 2. 5 hours or 2 hours (depending on how much time is left until 5:00am from the time you leave the Rio club with the girl to go to your apartment) , and if you don't wish to be short-changed on the time, and you can't get the girl you found to agree to stay with you longer than 5:00am, you will go home empty-handed from Rio, blue balls and cock blocked by the freebie girl with whom you improvidently used up important mongering time earlier that evening.

Only guys like TheKnight can breeze into Rio at 1:30am and scoop up a hottie and have a three hour date or longer, (either because he left by 2:00am, or he got the girl to agree to stay after 5:00am). He knows lots of the girls from before, has done the research and interviewing on many of them already in the past, so he knows a fair number of girls that are good for him already, and he is in a position to strike immediately if one of his previous Rio conquests is available. You are in a different position, this being your first time. And you will need sufficient time at Rio prior to 2:00am, to adequately view the line up in as many of the three bars as you choose to, and try out those girls of interest to you with interviews and private dances, in order to decide whom to proposition about coming home with you, and then find the one that will agree to come, as that too is by no means a given.

There's no doubt that a freebie conquest is sweeter to most guys than a p4p session. Statistically, if you have unlimited time to hit on freebie girls, you will eventually succeed in scoring a certain portion of times. But you don't have unlimited time in Kiev, and so statistically, you can certainly fail to score in three nights of hitting on freebies. In this scenario of limited time, choices have to be made, and you have to place your bets where you have the greatest likelihood of a score within the allotted time period.

[BeeDiddy]

Anyone going to Kiev next week? Would be interested in "exploring" with a wingman.

[LilJoey]

Hi Liljoey,

I was in Madrid at the end of November. I was in "vive club" very close to santiago bernabau stadium. It was Saturday night and there were around 30-40 girls. Half of them 7/8. Ukranian, Romanian, brasil, spanish and cyprus. I tried one ukranian one Romanian and one cyprus. Sex was good. All of them were kissing and oral without condom. The price is 110 euro for one sex. May be high but I think worth to it. Entrance is free. I didn't drink alcohol but a bottle of water was 10 euro. You don't need to buy drinks for girls. They are walking or dancing around the bar you just go and talk to them to be sure about their services. The rooms available in the club. Not very fancy but quiet ok.

No need to pick up the girls to hotel. That is what I like.

People told me club vive is the best in madrid about this concept. If you have any further questions, I am happy to help you. I read your Kiev reports everyday with pleasure and planning to go there this spring.

Take care.

Regards,

NaykanJust so you keep perspective and appreciate the low prices possible in Kiev, the "Vive Madrid" club price you referred to as "110 Euro for one sex" ($145 USD) is the price there for a half hour session, while an hour session would be 200 Euro ($263 USD in today's exchange rates) in that high priced club. By comparison, in Kiev there generally is no half hour sessions for outcall escorts and the price for an hour With a hot girl can be as low as 600 UAH ($75 USD / 57 Euro) , and a standard amount in Kiev for many girls is 800 UAH ($100 USD / 76 Euro). [Some ads in Kiev for girls at 400 UAH ($50 USD / 38 Euro) per hour, but it's not likely to be a hottie of 7 or above, so I won't consider it. ]

So compare!

200 Euro / hour = Vive Madrid Club, Madrid

120 Euro / hour = Factory Air, Madrid

57 Euro / hour = Kiev girls (mamba, top-modals, etc)

76 Euro / hour = Kiev girls (mamba, top-modals, etc)

So if you liked club Vive Madrid with its high prices, you're going to love Kiev where the girls are hot and the prices are a third of the cost of what you paid in Madrid.

LJ

[CheekyDancer]

Anyone going to Kiev next week? Would be interested in "exploring" with a wingman.I am there on the 12th if you fancy a beer.

[Me and You]

I am there on the 12th if you fancy a beer.I am in Kiev this week. Any wingman?

[Vostro000]

I really want to go to KIev but am a bit worried since I can't speak Russian, How safe is it if you don't speak the language?

[Maxilian]

I am in Kiev this week. Any wingman?Just arrived in Kiev. Checked in a bit late. Tomorrow perhaps.

[LilJoey]

I am in Kiev this week. Any wingman?BeeDiddy, CheekyDancer, Me and You, when you were in Kiev, how is the weather? I know it's very cold, but is there a lot of ice and snow on the sidewalks of downtown Kiev? I will be arriving in Kiev for the weekend on February 17th, and am trying to travel very light, so I don't want to bring extra footwear or boots unless I have to. Are the sidewalks in downtown Kiev safe to walk on with dress shoes? Or do they have ice and snow all over them, and maybe it's advisable to wear boots or something with some traction on the undersole?

[TheKnight]

how is the weather? I know it's very cold, but is there a lot of ice and snow on the sidewalks of downtown Kiev? I will be arriving in Kiev for the weekend on February 17th, and am trying to travel very light, so I don't want to bring extra footwear or boots unless I have to. Are the sidewalks in downtown Kiev safe to walk on with dress shoes? Or do they have ice and snow all over them, and maybe it's advisable to wear boots or something with some traction on the undersole?100% you need boots LJ. I've been out here a while and even with boots you're slipping all over. They do a remarkable job cleaning the snow from the roads and pavements, but even so the damp, and occasional thawing of snow (even at. 15c the direct sun and a bit of rock salt can cause some melt) means there are frequent pools of sheet ice. Take a scarf to wrap around your face if you plan on walking outside for longer than 2 or 3 mins, it's been a bit windy and humid a couple of days which is a lethal combination in. 20c temps.

Not much new info but I've been doing some research on some of the lesser visited places in the centre. I convinced a Nosorog girl to see me outside the club, so that's a possibility. Another night saw a visit to Solid Gold. Again I was the only punter in there during my half hour in the place. Also went to the two clubs attached to hotels Ukraina (Velvet) and Dnipro (Millennium) , and Penthaus on Red Army Street with the infamous dwarf in the fake lift which goes nowhere.

Here's a table of my findings:

CLUB ENTRY PRIVATE DANCE TAKE OUT COST.

Nosorog (all venues) 100 200 (promo) and / a.

Solid Gold 100 300 $400.

Penthaus 100 300 $300/2500.

Dnipro 100 400 $400*

Velvet 100 500 and / a.

In Velvet only 1 of the 7 girls was doable, really there's no reason to visit here ever. Had private dance been 200Hrv I would have taken a dance and given my number to Emma, but I had a tea, stayed to watch all 7 girls dance and left spending 120 Hrv.

In Penthaus I went to takeout one girl specifically. I bought the girl a drink and then just as we were discussing her leaving she said she had to leave as the guy she plans to marry (a punter) had just come in. She was not lying. Poor guy, she was very willing to leave and told me he has been in 3 times this week and would not be in tomorrow if I wanted her. So he is engaged to Kristina and he still has to pay to see her in a nightclub! I was annoyed at the time, but sought solace at Rio in the arms of Veronica. She was quite good, owo, we got on well but I did not send SMS after getting her number, just don't have desperate need to see her again.

Solid Gold. Supposed to be $400 for 3 hours and $500 for longer. $300 option for 2 hours was not offered.

In the event after $400 I took Vika and she stayed until morning and did everything. I should not pay this price but advantage with such a quiet club is girls are fresh, eager to please.

Dnipro I went with friend for whom I was a guide. 7 girls here too, but not great lineup. But the little man was in the mood for more action, and I justified paying over the top with telling myself I would get another 19yo eager to please and an extra $100 saved the walk or taxi to Rio, another entry price and probably a drink and another hour of my time til I could leave Rio with a girl. I asked Devochka the cost of takeout to confirm prices were same as my inspection visit last year, but she said discuss with lady. So I said let's go and she said $500. Stupidly I said "no it's only $400" instead of opening with $300. She immediately agreed $400 and I stipulated 4 hours. Once back at the apartment she really got into the sex but denied OWO or DATY and kept trying to stop me touching her. So the outcome was I banged my nuts off, didn't respect her, made her stay til I emptied my load for a 4th time (after a 30-min snooze between rounds 3 and 4 because she was that boring and uncooperative!)

[AColonizer]

I can't believe that: 300/400$ for what? For how many hours? Are you a pimp with that kind of story? Has somebody forgot there is a global crisis and all kind of workers are happy to work for half money than three years ago?


100% you need boots LJ. I've been out here a while and even with boots you're slipping all over. They do a remarkable job cleaning the snow from the roads and pavements, but even so the damp, and occasional thawing of snow (even at. 15c the direct sun and a bit of rock salt can cause some melt) means there are frequent pools of sheet ice. Take a scarf to wrap around your face if you plan on walking outside for longer than 2 or 3 mins, it's been a bit windy and humid a couple of days which is a lethal combination in. 20c temps.

Not much new info but I've been doing some research on some of the lesser visited places in the centre. I convinced a Nosorog girl to see me outside the club, so that's a possibility. Another night saw a visit to Solid Gold. Again I was the only punter in there during my half hour in the place. Also went to the two clubs attached to hotels Ukraina (Velvet) and Dnipro (Millennium) , and Penthaus on Red Army Street with the infamous dwarf in the fake lift which goes nowhere.

Here's a table of my findings:

CLUB ENTRY PRIVATE DANCE TAKE OUT COST.

Nosorog (all venues) 100 200 (promo) and / a.

Solid Gold 100 300 $400.

Penthaus 100 300 $300/2500.

Dnipro 100 400 $400*

Velvet 100 500 and / a.

In Velvet only 1 of the 7 girls was doable, really there's no reason to visit here ever. Had private dance been 200Hrv I would have taken a dance and given my number to Emma, but I had a tea, stayed to watch all 7 girls dance and left spending 120 Hrv.

In Penthaus I went to takeout one girl specifically. I bought the girl a drink and then just as we were discussing her leaving she said she had to leave as the guy she plans to marry (a punter) had just come in. She was not lying. Poor guy, she was very willing to leave and told me he has been in 3 times this week and would not be in tomorrow if I wanted her. So he is engaged to Kristina and he still has to pay to see her in a nightclub! I was annoyed at the time, but sought solace at Rio in the arms of Veronica. She was quite good, owo, we got on well but I did not send SMS after getting her number, just don't have desperate need to see her again.

Solid Gold. Supposed to be $400 for 3 hours and $500 for longer. $300 option for 2 hours was not offered.

In the event after $400 I took Vika and she stayed until morning and did everything. I should not pay this price but advantage with such a quiet club is girls are fresh, eager to please.

Dnipro I went with friend for whom I was a guide. 7 girls here too, but not great lineup. But the little man was in the mood for more action, and I justified paying over the top with telling myself I would get another 19yo eager to please and an extra $100 saved the walk or taxi to Rio, another entry price and probably a drink and another hour of my time til I could leave Rio with a girl. I asked Devochka the cost of takeout to confirm prices were same as my inspection visit last year, but she said discuss with lady. So I said let's go and she said $500. Stupidly I said "no it's only $400" instead of opening with $300. She immediately agreed $400 and I stipulated 4 hours. Once back at the apartment she really got into the sex but denied OWO or DATY and kept trying to stop me touching her. So the outcome was I banged my nuts off, didn't respect her, made her stay til I emptied my load for a 4th time (after a 30-min snooze between rounds 3 and 4 because she was that boring and uncooperative!)

[Climaxnow]

I can't believe that: 300/400$ for what? For how many hours? Are you a pimp with that kind of story? Has somebody forgot there is a global crisis and all kind of workers are happy to work for half money than three years ago?I don't mean to be smart but $300/400 for a girl that stays overnight seems fair to me. Assuming Knight scored a 9 or 10, that comes out to be about a hundred an hour. I just can't imagine a quality girl giving it up for half.

How does one find these $50 an hour models in Kiev on a one week trip?

[Me and You]

I don't mean to be me. half.T very GF.

Very cold in Kiev but in day time is sunny. Night time very hard weather. I met already 4 girls. 3 from Mamaba first one, beautiful 9 with green eyes good sex but not very GFE. Covered BJ. Second one is tall blonde 9 a very GFE bbj cim. Third one I met last year in Caribean. I bed her last night after a long way. A 10 super beautiful well educated and interesting girl. I brought her some gifts with me. And I gave her $ to make some shopping. Today a very GFE 8 girl bbj Cim and a strong anal.

Good time until now and no surprises. I think it is a low season for girls so it is a chance to find beautiful girls with reasonable prices. Usually I don't pay more than 100 $ may be extra for anal if requested.

Usually I look the semi pro or normal profiles and not the pink ones with hight green indicator of chatting on Mamba (a probable agency or Salon). Photos will follow after I go back home.

[Sponsor74]

100% you need boots LJ. I've been out here a while and even with boots you're slipping all over. They do a remarkable job cleaning the snow from the roads and pavements, but even so the damp, and occasional thawing of snow (even at. 15c the direct sun and a bit of rock salt can cause some melt) means there are frequent pools of sheet ice. Take a scarf to wrap around your face if you plan on walking outside for longer than 2 or 3 mins, it's been a bit windy and humid a couple of days which is a lethal combination in. 20c temps.

Not much new info but I've been doing some research on some of the lesser visited places in the centre. I convinced a Nosorog girl to see me outside the club, so that's a possibility. Another night saw a visit to Solid Gold. Again I was the only punter in there during my half hour in the place. Also went to the two clubs attached to hotels Ukraina (Velvet) and Dnipro (Millennium) , and Penthaus on Red Army Street with the infamous dwarf in the fake lift which goes nowhere.

Here's a table of my findings:

CLUB ENTRY PRIVATE DANCE TAKE OUT COST.

Nosorog (all venues) 100 200 (promo) and / a.

Solid Gold 100 300 $400.

Penthaus 100 300 $300/2500.

Dnipro 100 400 $400*

Velvet 100 500 and / a.

In Velvet only 1 of the 7 girls was doable, really there's no reason to visit here ever. Had private dance been 200Hrv I would have taken a dance and given my number to Emma, but I had a tea, stayed to watch all 7 girls dance and left spending 120 Hrv.

In Penthaus I went to takeout one girl specifically. I bought the girl a drink and then just as we were discussing her leaving she said she had to leave as the guy she plans to marry (a punter) had just come in. She was not lying. Poor guy, she was very willing to leave and told me he has been in 3 times this week and would not be in tomorrow if I wanted her. So he is engaged to Kristina and he still has to pay to see her in a nightclub! I was annoyed at the time, but sought solace at Rio in the arms of Veronica. She was quite good, owo, we got on well but I did not send SMS after getting her number, just don't have desperate need to see her again.

Solid Gold. Supposed to be $400 for 3 hours and $500 for longer. $300 option for 2 hours was not offered.

In the event after $400 I took Vika and she stayed until morning and did everything. I should not pay this price but advantage with such a quiet club is girls are fresh, eager to please.

Dnipro I went with friend for whom I was a guide. 7 girls here too, but not great lineup. But the little man was in the mood for more action, and I justified paying over the top with telling myself I would get another 19yo eager to please and an extra $100 saved the walk or taxi to Rio, another entry price and probably a drink and another hour of my time til I could leave Rio with a girl. I asked Devochka the cost of takeout to confirm prices were same as my inspection visit last year, but she said discuss with lady. So I said let's go and she said $500. Stupidly I said "no it's only $400" instead of opening with $300. She immediately agreed $400 and I stipulated 4 hours. Once back at the apartment she really got into the sex but denied OWO or DATY and kept trying to stop me touching her. So the outcome was I banged my nuts off, didn't respect her, made her stay til I emptied my load for a 4th time (after a 30-min snooze between rounds 3 and 4 because she was that boring and uncooperative!) Thanks for your information during this cold February, I wonder how is the street action? The main street near to Mc Donalds girls outside or where are they in this cold weather. Bars and Discos are not my favorites because too much professionals there with standard prices in warm or cold weathere. Therefore, I still prefer the girls outside walking on the street and looking for contacts?

[AColonizer]

I should repeat my last post. Mongers can find young, beautiful, piggish and smart girl for cheap, it is not easy, but you can (WE CAN motto).

That's only a waste of money and a spoiled of a country, the payment of any sum to girls (and to their pimps / lovers) , you know well that's the best way Ukrainian women become like Western women.

Moreover, for what? For just pussy and oral with condom, no french kisses,"no no you are hurting me" comedy? No. 300$/overnight are absolutely absurd. At least anal sex and swallow sperm. All (but actually all) sex providers are used anal sex and swallow sperm. When a girl denies that, she is trying to fraud my brain before of my wallet!

Therefore it is wise to be cynical and humble. OK, a one-week holiday is not enough. Therefore it is necessary to prepare a day-by-day program. It is necessary to think a lot as being at war: money against sex. Plan A, B and C. All means are good to get the wanted result. If this time was not good, then we try to understand what was wrong. And always reduce the loss of money. Kiev is funny also without P4P.

N. B. When a penis needs to ejaculate, a lot of girls get a high score.


I don't mean to be smart but $300/400 for a girl that stays overnight seems fair to me. Assuming Knight scored a 9 or 10, that comes out to be about a hundred an hour. I just can't imagine a quality girl giving it up for half.

How does one find these $50 an hour models in Kiev on a one week trip?

[TheKnight]

I should repeat my last post. Mongers can find young, beautiful, piggish and smart girl for cheap, it is not easy, but you can (WE CAN motto).

That's only a waste of money and a spoiled of a country, the payment of any sum to girls (and to their pimps / lovers) , you know well that's the best way Ukrainian women become like Western women.

Moreover, for what? For just pussy and oral with condom, no french kisses,"no no you are hurting me" comedy? No. 300$/overnight are absolutely absurd. At least anal sex and swallow sperm. All (but actually all) sex providers are used anal sex and swallow sperm. When a girl denies that, she is trying to fraud my brain before of my wallet!

Therefore it is wise to be cynical and humble. OK, a one-week holiday is not enough. Therefore it is necessary to prepare a day-by-day program. It is necessary to think a lot as being at war: money against sex. Plan A, B and C. All means are good to get the wanted result. If this time was not good, then we try to understand what was wrong. And always reduce the loss of money. Kiev is funny also without P4P.

N. B. When a penis needs to ejaculate, a lot of girls get a high score.I know what you are saying and I agree in small amount, in an ideal world. But it's not ideal.

I have to juggle 3 GF, one very serious. So often I have to blame work and send GF home before being left with a window of opportunity around 2300 or later. Going to sauna or parlour is often not possible then. Calling previous conquests is possible, but likely not producing instant results. TopModals et al in the shady website world is likely to send shit girl (s) at that time of night and you may have to wait an hour even if you are very firm on the phone when you call.

Really, clubs are convenient way of seeing a lot of girs and getting a take-out very quickly.

I can go into a club and maybe pull a freebie but never within 45 minutes to be able to leave with her.

And saying all P4P girls do anal and swallow is just wrong. Everyone knows this.

Incidentally I don't give a monkeys' wotsits if the girl swallows or not, as long as she takes it in her mouth. I don't need the spunk back so she can spit away.

And not everyone likes anal. Only very occasionally do I indulge in back door action.

[Member #4276]

I agree some points of Acolnizer. $300 / night is still expensive. Rich Americans and Europeans did this. They offer $300 / h so prices getting increased.

Think about I am from Turkey, but when we compare with default Greece, still I cannot afford Kiev girls. However. 10 years ago, yeah I can book a girl very cheap prices like 100$/night.

[LilJoey]

I agree some points of Acolnizer. $300 / night is still expensive. Rich Americans and Europeans did this. They offer $300 / h so prices getting increased.

Think about I am from Turkey, but when we compare with default Greece, still I cannot afford Kiev girls. However. 10 years ago, yeah I can book a girl very cheap prices like 100$/night.Your opinion is also not based on the actual facts. These Russian and Ukrainian girls are being spoiled more by rich Turks in your own country. Why don't you take a look at the links for these EE girls traveling into Turkey for the high 250 Euro / hour to 350 Euro / hour rates being paid to them in Turkey. See http://openadultdirectory.com/escorts/Turkey/

A rate of 100 Euro / hour, factually is a base rate (+- a few euro) in many European countries, although locals can sometimes beat such a price. It's worth quoting from my first post to put some perspective on this."Consider the following rates from all over Europe. The fixed rate for an hour of time in the Frankfurt FKK's is 100 Euro, but the entrance fee of 75 Euro must be considered and factored into the costs too. Assuming many guys will do at least three girls during a visit, if you spend three hours with three girls at the FKK, for example, your net rate is $125 Euro per girl / hour at the FKK. Budapest prices with girls from websites like www.redzone.hu Or www.rosszlanyok.hu, after adding to the basic fee, any fees for extras to get GFE type services, came out to around 25, 000 HUF a few years ago which was around 100 Euro. Vienna escort agency rates can be found in the range of 150 Euro for the first hour and 110 Euro for the subsequent hours. The various Laufhaus' in Vienna have hourly rates not too different, as one can determine from the abundant postings on the kontaktbazar. At. The Vienna FKK Goldentime has slightly higher rates of 60 Euro per half hour, or 120 Euro / hr. Plus entrance fee. In Madrid at Flowers Park, the prices asked recently were 150 Euro / hr which can be negotiated down to 110 Euro or maybe 100 Euro. I had a one night stopover there facing the prospect of no more play for a while after that, so I splurged and did a 1. 5 hr duo there for 150 Euro each girl, which equals a rate of 100 Euro / hr for each girl. In Warsaw on odloty. Pl the prices seem to be 300 zloty / hr (around $100 USD) or 200 zloty / hr (around $66 USD). I haven't investigated everywhere, but the center of gravity for prices in Eastern Europe seems to be in the 100 Euro / hour – 130 euro / hour range."

Therefore, a rate of $100 USD / hour in Kiev for a professional WG who is a 8 to 10, is lower than 100 Euro / hour and is not a bad price in comparison to what is going on in the rest of Europe. And as we know, in Kiev, it is possible to get girls for $75 / hour or even $50 / hour. However, it is unlikely that they will be as hot at the girls one can take out of Rio strip club for the $100 / hour rate (3 hour minimum). Take a look at the fat, ugly slobs offering themselves for 300 UAH / hour on top-modals. Com and you will get the idea. Perhaps some mongers delight in having sex with a fat or ugly Ukrainian woman for 300 UAH / hour (about $38) , but guys like TheKnight are not interested in such women. So if he gets a truly hot girl for $300 for the whole night, you need to divide that sum by the actual number of hours to realize the truly low rate he paid. For example, if she was with him even for 6 hours, it means his effective net rate was $50 / hour, which is pretty low. It is possible to do even better than that with semi-pros who once they like you will stay for significantly longer time without commensurate increase of money requested. Not so with the more professional WG's who always look at the clock in terms of their services. From the perspective of the foregoing actual realities, I'd say $300 for a whole night for a hot girl on an 8 to 10 level, is a home run.

What's the point of bemoaning how things are now, based on where they were 10 or 20 years ago?

LJ

[Member #4276]

If Turkey's currency would be Euro, yes these prices are normal. But we use Turkish Liras. 1 € = 2, 3 TL. And minimum wage in Turkey is €356 / month (Even in sunk Greece is €600). How can we pay such high prices like €250 / h? European tourist pay this money when they come to Turkey. Lets say 1TL = 1€. Do you want to pay 575€/h to escorts in European countries (250€ = 575TL)? But €100 is normal for you right? 100 TL is also normal for us. Thats why I am telling 10 years ago, I was able to get $100 / night in Kiev. Now, I could not afford to go to Kiev.

All in all, do not increase the prices in Ukraine. It will be good for all of us. I am working in Istanbul and have a MBA degree from HARVARD (1998 Graduate). But I earn only 700€/month. Don't laugh. You, all Europeans, fucked our economy. But nothing to do.

Please negotiate with the girls to decrease the costs.

[CheekyDancer]

T very GF.

Very cold in Kiev but in day time is sunny. Night time very hard weather. I met already 4 girls. 3 from Mamaba first one, beautiful 9 with green eyes good sex but not very GFE. Covered BJ. Second one is tall blonde 9 a very GFE bbj cim. Third one I met last year in Caribean. I bed her last night after a long way. A 10 super beautiful well educated and interesting girl. I brought her some gifts with me. And I gave her $ to make some shopping. Today a very GFE 8 girl bbj Cim and a strong anal.

Good time until now and no surprises. I think it is a low season for girls so it is a chance to find beautiful girls with reasonable prices. Usually I don't pay more than 100 $ may be extra for anal if requested.

Usually I look the semi pro or normal profiles and not the pink ones with hight green indicator of chatting on Mamba (a probable agency or Salon). Photos will follow after I go back home.Are you still here in Kiev. I am here until the 18th. I came to meet a freebie from Mamba. I am getting the impression it could be a no go. I will know more after I meet her again this afternoon. If its a non starter I am up for a few beers and some mongering advice on Kiev as I am somewhat of a Newbie. I just spent a few days in Stuttgart at FKK Paradise which was a blast.

[Climaxnow]

If Turkey's currency would be Euro, yes these prices are normal. But we use Turkish Liras. 1 € = 2, 3 TL. And minimum wage in Turkey is €356 / month (Even in sunk Greece is €600). How can we pay such high prices like €250 / h? European tourist pay this money when they come to Turkey. Lets say 1TL = 1€. Do you want to pay 575€/h to escorts in European countries (250€ = 575TL)? But €100 is normal for you right? 100 TL is also normal for us. Thats why I am telling 10 years ago, I was able to get $100 / night in Kiev. Now, I could not afford to go to Kiev.

All in all, do not increase the prices in Ukraine. It will be good for all of us. I am working in Istanbul and have a MBA degree from HARVARD (1998 Graduate). But I earn only 700€/month. Don't laugh. You, all Europeans, fucked our economy. But nothing to do.

Please negotiate with the girls to decrease the costs.Your English is terrible for a Harvard man! (smiley)

[LilJoey]

If Turkey's currency would be Euro, yes these prices are normal. But we use Turkish Liras. 1 € = 2, 3 TL. And minimum wage in Turkey is €356 / month (Even in sunk Greece is €600). How can we pay such high prices like €250 / h? European tourist pay this money when they come to Turkey. Lets say 1TL = 1€. Do you want to pay 575€/h to escorts in European countries (250€ = 575TL)? But €100 is normal for you right? 100 TL is also normal for us. Thats why I am telling 10 years ago, I was able to get $100 / night in Kiev. Now, I could not afford to go to Kiev.

All in all, do not increase the prices in Ukraine. It will be good for all of us. I am working in Istanbul and have a MBA degree from HARVARD (1998 Graduate). But I earn only 700€/month. Don't laugh. You, all Europeans, fucked our economy. But nothing to do.

Please negotiate with the girls to decrease the costs.According to www.xe.com The rate of exchange for Turkish Lira (TRY) is (800 UAH/$100 USD = 176 TRY. 600 UAH/$75 USD = 132 TRY. 400 UAH/$50 = 88 TRY. The $400 USD that one would spend to take out a Rio strip club girl is 706 TRY.

You think it's only Europeans spending money in Turkey? Don't be naive. There are plenty of very wealthy Turkish men who adore the blonde and gorgeous pussy from Ukraine and Russia and will pay those high prices in Ankara, Istanbul, and Anatalya. Did you look at the links to the websites I provided in my previousl post? The girls look unbelievably good. As well, there are many Arabs and Africans with money to blow in their pockets who come to Turkey and who place a high value on the fair skinned beauties from the EE countries, and are willing to pay for it. No, it's not the guys in your sector of the hard working population. It's oligarchs and tycoons from government, big business and mafia types who are spending those amounts of Euros on the high priced escorts. That's why these girls travel to places like Turkey, Dubai and Cairo. Same in Ukraine. Or Bucharest. There are local men with lots of money. In Kiev, the majority of the men who are customers any given night in Rio strip club are local Ukrainians or Russian men who are from the higher economic echelons.

But don't despair. Because there are lower priced girls in places like Kiev, you might succeed in getting a pretty girl for 100 Turkish Lira (TRY) (around $56 USD) from mamba. Ru or other websites. Or try in Poland where prices are also pretty low. Or you might save up a little and go to the FKK's in Germany where many of your young Turkish countrymen on sport-fucking expeditions are to be seen in large numbers cavorting with the girls there.

Everyone negotiates for the lower price when possible. But part of negotiating hard, is being prepared to walk away, and often-times doing so. Then the message gets across. However, when a guy is in Kiev for a very short period, he can only press that approach to a certain point, because he doesn't want to go home empty-handed. So it comes out that he will agree to the best price he can get within the time alotted for the negotiations. That's just the dynamics of the negotiation.

So you are free to come to Kiev and try your hand at negotiating as best you can, and only agreeing on the price you want. There are many others who feel the same way as you do, and they negotiate hard and don't pay high prices in Kiev. Their results may vary from the guys who pay the higher prices, but they get what they want in the end also.

There is a low end market as well as a high end market, as in many places. The girls who have the looks for it, of course, want to stay in the high end market. It's their economic choice. That's why most of the really hot girls stay independent and work in the nightclubs as free agents asking the highest prices they can. They only come down in price when there are no takers and the night is almost over. In a situation like Rio strip club there really is no negotiation and you will have to pay the stated price as a premium in return for the ease and efficiency of choice and the high level of selection.

But there are lots of girls in Ukraine who are not hardened professional WG's only looking for high end customers. There are plenty on non--pro or semi--pro girls who would appreciate a little entertainment, and won't cost you a bundle. Also, in the population there are many, many beauties. And they will give a chance to guys much older than them. So it is worth it to try in a place like Kiev to get hot girls for free or for a lower price, because it is possible to succeed at this with effort.

[Member #4276]

Your English is terrible for a Harvard man! (smiley)Send me your e-mail adress and will send you my scanned diploma!

[Member #4276]

Your English is terrible for a Harvard man! (smiley)Another thing is that, If you want to prepare a case in any business subject don't hesitate, tell me and I will send you my case analysis (SMILEY!)

But, you will also prepare. OK? And we will compare whose English is terrible (SMILEY!).

[Member #4276]

OK. This sex forum and I don't want to discuss this issue anymore!

[Muddy7]

I really want to go to KIev but am a bit worried since I can't speak Russian, How safe is it if you don't speak the language?I have traveled to Kiev there 7 times, no major problems.

Only one minor issue I had in my first trip, the same old cash on the ground do you want to split it.

I travel ther usually during the summer, I wear sunglasses so its not easy for anyone on the streets to see that I'm not ukrainain.

I have been to several smaller cities too like odessa, nikolaev, sumy, dnepropetrovsk, kharkov, no problems at all

[AColonizer]

my posts are about reality only. we should teach by masters. all the rest people are just sillies pretending to be mongers. but money is not the first problem. the first problem is the mindset. the difference between expensive bad results and exceptional cheap results is just the mindset. that difference is very real!

moreover, the sex is an art, and that is not (condomed) vaginal sex only. it is like to drive a car by the first and the second speed (manual change) , that is not a correct drive indeed! and if men want just vaginal sex, then they can get easy and cheap by any woman, with no expensive travels and fetishistic payments.


i know what you are saying and i agree in small amount, in an ideal world. but it's not ideal.

i have to juggle 3 gf, one very serious. so often i have to blame work and send gf home before being left with a window of opportunity around 2300 or later. going to sauna or parlour is often not possible then. calling previous conquests is possible, but likely not producing instant results. topmodals et al in the shady website world is likely to send shit girl (s) at that time of night and you may have to wait an hour even if you are very firm on the phone when you call.

really, clubs are convenient way of seeing a lot of girs and getting a take-out very quickly.

i can go into a club and maybe pull a freebie but never within 45 minutes to be able to leave with her.

and saying all p4p girls do anal and swallow is just wrong. everyone knows this.

incidentally i don't give a monkeys' wotsits if the girl swallows or not, as long as she takes it in her mouth. i don't need the spunk back so she can spit away.

and not everyone likes anal. only very occasionally do i indulge in back door action.

[CallSign Papa]

I travel ther usually during the summer, I wear sunglasses so its not easy for anyone on the streets to see that I'm not ukrainain.Trust me, you might think you blend in, but ukrainians can spot you as a foreigner with one glance, from your hair to your shoes. Even your sunglasses will give you away. And I love Ukraine and think most Ukrainians are a good bunch, but I sure wouldn't want to look like one.

[CallSign Papa]

But money is not the first problem. The first problem is the mindset. The difference between expensive bad results and exceptional cheap results is just the mindset. That difference is very real!I need to go lay down, Acolonizer just wrote something that I agree with!

[AColonizer]

I mean,"We should learn by masters".


My posts are about reality only. We should teach by masters.

[AColonizer]

I don't need any consents. That's the reality. That's the best people. And they exist independently from me. Go to pay those prices to girls in all over the world and we shall find the Western style only.


I need to go lay down, Acolonizer just wrote something that I agree with!

[CheekyDancer]

Hello All,

My post here is as some what of an outsider to the P4P mongering but I thought it might be of interest to anyone visiting Kiev. I came over to Kiev to meet with a freebie I had met through Mamba. My obvious intention was that if the Freebie went pear shaped I would continue my vacation in the likes of Rio club as this seems to be the place to go. As it worked out the girl I came to meet turned out to be everything she looked like in her photo's and was genuinely looking for a nice guy. Which in some ways I guess I am. So the setting was perfect for a free week of fun in the company of a wonderful woman.

This was the first time I had visited Kiev and speak no Russian. I found the people here to be friendly if at time a little staunch. When you first meet Ukraine people they can seem a little unwelcoming. After a smile and a little banter they open up and are very friendly and generous.

The restaurants here in Kiev are fantastic and great value for money. Sushi seems to be a favourite with girls here and the prices are good and the quality matches. I live in the French Riviera so my taste and expectation of food is good.

Taxis are cheap but I would always recommend agreeing a price before you leave.

I envision a spike in prices for everything when the Euro 2012 kicks off over here but I think that due to the state of the economy and the average wage here the price will soon drop back to there current prices.

As for women. WOW. I am here in. 20 and it is still not hard to see the potential here even with the girls all wrapped up in furs. I went to a few clubs and bars with the girl I came to see and was astounded by the women. Tall, and smoking hot. 9's a plenty. With a few splattering's of 10's.

Anyway I am in the airport and need to go so I will continue with this later.

[AColonizer]

And moreover WOW my work collegue has fun when he pulls Mihaela's long black hair while he is pushing deep his big fist into her ass for 50 euros / half hour WOW WOW WOW you can see her in one of my picture and WOW you can't find anybody better in Kiev WOW it's like to impale a Zemanova look-alike and she smiles too WOAOW

[HunterDave]

Had a good time with an escort tonight.

She has a great body, tall, nice tits, and nice ass, friendly.

Got her number, she is a student at an institute, she said she has friends who do this work.

I think I will call her tomorrow, I will ask her to set me up with her best looking friends, for every girl she sets me up with I will giver her $50 and I will give her girlfriends $100 per hour.

But her girlfriend must first send me her photos to see if I liker her or not.

Never know but it may save me great time going to clubs and look for girls, this way they come to me.

I'm very selective, to pay a girl for sex she must be under 24, very good looking. 8.5 or higher, the younger the better.

Just a question for some of you guys if you don't mind, why some of you are so interested in doing DATY on prostitutes?Muddy,

Can I get the name and number of that student for my next upcoming trip? Did she come thru for you?

Hunter Dave

[CallSign Papa]

And moreover WOW. etc yawnYou really should take a break from being such a massive prick. It can't be good for your general well being.

[Ronaldinjo]

Sent SMS and made phone calls for the traditional afternoon shag, until I was called back by a Mamba girl: pretty do-able, judging from the photos, although not really my type (initially I had called for her girlfriend whom I found much more attractive, but that one was currently abroad). Well, I thought, we shall see.

Of course, she was late...How can I find this moroccan beauty in Mamba?

[LilJoey]

Had two nights in Kiev (Friday and Saturday, February 17 and 18). Weather was mild (for Kiev) and it was sufficient to wear a simple coat with the thermal lining removed over my sport jacket. I was told it had been 30 below a few weeks before, so cold engines would not start. But this weekend was fine. A little slush and ice on downtown sidewalks, but no need for boots. Walking shoes with good tread were fine.

I did my usual with a short weekend stopover and went to Rio strip club, which was its usual awesome experience. Friday I hooked up with the truly awesome Darina, a bit of a diva, but the visuals will fuel some great memories for a long time to come. I will post more on her later (I wrote something but it is in my laptop and I'm posting this from my Blackberry from the airplane) and definitely plan on hitting that thang again when I return at the end of March.

My last sleep having been Wednesday night, after Darina left I ate and then fell into a slumber from which I roused myself at last about 5:00 PM on Saturday evening. I had dinner while I watched the very touching funeral of Whitney Houston on CNN, until I reminded myself there was work to do at Rio.

Saturday night was a repeat of my awesome duo from last trip, Ada and Lera. Yes, the same Lera that won't let me eat her out, but has graduated to giving me a really good blowjob, covered of course, but I find her so sexy and pretty and fun, that fucking her is totally satisfying, and her shrieks as I do my thing (of course I bang the shit out of her to make up for the things she doesn't let me have) with Ada looking on, are icing on the cake. This time I managed not to come myself even when I finished off Lera, so I had the stuff to do a very respectable job on Ada also. Because I wanted into Lera's pussy so much, I had started off the session DATY on Ada so she wouldn't feel neglected (she's the sensitive type) , and as I may have mentioned, seeing Ada orgasm is quite an experience, and I like how it turns Lera on. Lera had no problem kissing Ada and licking her nipples while I went down on her. And I know that Ada likes girls, so it was a further turn on for her. They came with me from Rio at about a little after 1:00 AM and ended up leaving at 5:00 AM.

Sunday I took the Wizz Air flight from Kiev's Zhulyany airport to Dortmund, Germany, rented a car from Sixt, made the easy highway drive to Villa Vertigo, had a great night there Sunday night, nailing three hotties, including a petite Romanian girl whose name I forgot, the awesome looking black haired (body is a 9 or 10) Melissa (from Albania, she claims) and blond sexy Magda (Polish) , and slept at Villa Vertigo (100 Euro but very convenient for me). I drove to Weeze airport (easy drive) and am now about to depart on a Ryan Air flight to Madrid for tonight, Monday night.

The trip has been awesome.

Happy hunting, guys.

LJ

[Zipster8899]

After reading thru the Kiev thread for a while I've decided to register and pay back my recently made experiences as well. So here my 2 cent.

I'm native German and usually I monger in SEA for almost 20 years, but due to some reasons I started getting boring and try to taste some new dishes more closely to my home country.

To prepare for my visit I did exactly what was recommended such as opening a Mamba profile and start talking to the gals. Frankly talk, it's very time consuming and you need to put a lot of effort into that business to get something in return. Finally I made it up to about a dozen+ of contacts which I thought must be reliable by at least 50 – 80 %.

Then booked the flight and arranged the apartment via Kievaparts. Com. Must say everything went smoothly without great hassles in between. My time was limited to 3 days only from Friday 17 th, till Monday 20 th.

Day 1 in Kiev :

Due to fucking airport trouble in FRA my flight was delayed by more than 3 hours, so when came out from immigration no driver wait me anymore. Next me tried hard to telephone to the apartment management, but quickly realized my idiot Vodavone SIM card cannot work in Ukraine network. Luckily some nice lady let me use her mobile to clear up the issue and let the driver pick me up. Then straight to the apartment, clear the payment, get the door key, take a shower and O. K – ready for action. Quickly stepped out to buy the MTC Sim card. Called the first one from my Mamba list,. When pick up the phone only Russian talk and finally hang up. Tried the second. Same story, tried the third – same story, finally number 4 was saying she gon'a see me, ask for the apartment detail and door code. O. K,. So gladly my dick was already growing, but when she came in after approx. 1 hour instead of the promised 30 minutes I really got shocked be. See the bird looked like the main actress in rocky horror picture show. So fast I've paid her the taxi and good bye darling!

Then really got pissed from that Mamba shit and called to the Top-models. Com. After some stupid talk with the operator there she asked me which girl I like it and me talked straight away my recommendation. Tall, blond, skinny, no idiot tattoo style and no balloon blown fake tits please. Then she let me choose between blonde and brunett, so me vote for the blonde. What they send me instead was the bruenett, but overall not so bad. Her rack was quite beauty and she could talk some English as well. We agreed to the 100 $ 1 hour business and after the common glass champagne we went to the job. After reading thru all those mind blowing stories here my imagines went so far,. Maybe too far for her. BBBJ was refused, only CBJ. She let me DATY and I really liked the 69 when got that pink on top. Wooow, that was fantastic vision, so tasty and juicy. However,. Her action was almost too professional and mechanical. Fucked her in certain positions and after the 1 hour bell was ring I let her go without shoot anything out from my dick. She seemed quite exhausted and surprised saying something like,. Why why why? I told her me can only shoot my sperm if the lady wear those sky rocking heels and stockings. Then she was laughing like crazy and said something in Russian,. I could not understand the meaning behind but must be something connected with my country origin. Kissed her, gave her the money and bye bye, babe.

As it got late already I dressed up smart and strolled thru the fucking cold streets of Kiev. Headed for that Buddha bar but since I came from Esplanadna Road. I lost my way so quick and finally end up to ask a taxi to bring me there. He tried hard to rip me and quoted 100 rpn for such short distance only. Could make him down to 50, but that the best I could do. In there, Friday close to midnight the bar was not so much packed, a few working girls there definitely. The language barrier can be quite a hassle, be. See I was not able to talk to them and the ones approaching me quote me something shit in the range of 400 $. After 1 hour and a few drinks I decided to visit that famous D'lux club. 200 rpn entrance fee and then multiple floor of stunning beauty, ohhhh my goodness! I'm in my 40's and not that disco hopper anymore, so I went to the first floor bar where I took place right on the bar and waiting what gon'a happen. Not so long a stunning blonde was approaching me and after a few eye winks we start chatting about where you from and all this common blah blah blah. After a few drinks and permanent great vision on her leg wear my brain was moving from top to bottom, so once me asked if I can buy her a drink she appreciated and told me something about 100 blah blah blah. I let her order because all me was already stuck in her pussy or somewhere her kinky body. Then when they bring the champagne bottle and the 100 $ bill I really want sink under the ground. I really did it – I mean one of those stupid newbie mistakes, . Never ever let the girl order something, only do it yourself! So anyways the bottle was open already, so me couldn't do anything anymore. Just stay cool and try hard to play the great gentle man. Fuck off,. After that incident me couldn't enjoy it anymore and after the champagne was done I filled up a few more wodka till me got drunk and the blonde strolled to disco to shake asses. Totally damage during that clubbing night was 300 $ over and I left the scene empty handed.

Day 2 in Kiev.

Next day, Saturday after wake up from the death in late afternoon I was too lazy to go out and tried my Mamba contacts again, I mean what was remaining. To make it more easy for me I decided to not phone them, instead me just send a couple of SMS and wait some reply. Yeah Masha was responding fastly and told me she want come to my apartment,. Asked 800 rpn. Quickly checking her profile and pictures again and thought,. Yeah not a bad deal at all. She say in 30 minutes after make up she will meet me. After 1 ½ hours then she came and called me to pick her from the taxi. Yes, when she jumped from the car I noticed a totally different gal from what was posted on Mamba. Not that beautiful studentka but for some grade do-able. English just a very little, just enough to clear what needs to be said. The sex with her was O. K but nothing to write home about. Everything covered and even offer extra money it was refused to do anything without a condom. O. K fine, they just want a protect them selves and me really have to honor that,. But most annoying was the fact she didn't turn off that fucking I-phone and all the time the shit was ring. At the end I didn't say anything anymore and hammered her from the back while she talked to her friend. Yeah, I agree this is an amazing country and some things you will get it what you never supposed to get it in your life. However, when read thru this fantastic stories of some gentle man here talking about BBBJ and CIM and even swallow I must ask myself where those guys have been. I mean maybe in 'Alice wonderland 'or in 'mongers heaven',. But for sure not here in Ukraine country. Well, the rest of Saturday just peaceful dining and a little bit eye candy shopping to re-cover a bit from day 1.

Day 3 in Kiev.

So after wake up straight away strolled to center and placed myself somewhere in the underground walking passages and shopping malls to watch all the beauties passing by. Is a good option while outside is so freaking cold and slippery. Yeah me totally beliefe it,. To get a freebee in here must be quite a challenge and requires a lot of time and patience. Absolutely yes,. Be. See Ukraine woman are very proud and clever and almost tactical. They not easy to get in bed and stories written about arriving and 3 h later bed a studenka is to my opinion another great fantasy thread. So after sitting a while and watching the scene me got a SMS on my mobile from a girl I have SMS'the the day before. She apologized to answer so late and asked me if I have a time now. Yeah, after a few SMS and telephone back and forth we met up. To my great surprise she was not exactly the girl on Mamba but very close and she looked so innocent and that type of girly style. Her English was excellent compared to everything I got it up front. Easy to separate from the hooker staffs and she told me to study on economical and management. Yeah, I believe it must be true. Straight forward she told me she's not a prostitute and me should not over expect be. See she doesn't know that business very well, but she needs money for financing her courses. I somehow got impressed by her nice personality, so when on my room I told her I have a small present for her and gave her a nice Guess watch which me just recently auctioned on Epay. When I saw the glitter in her eyes me know, yes she is mine and she'll be so great with me. To make a long story short,. Yeah truly she very un-experienced in terms of sex but a real GFE with lots of kissing and cuddling in between. However,. Even this one doesn't do anything without a condom. My original plan to also visit this famous Rio strip clup was skipped be. See that sweety stuck to my feet and not let me go again till me depart from Kiev on Monday morning. She told me on Mamba there is 99 % fake and scam and agency shit – so me must be so lucky to get the jackpot.

Right now I'm really puzzled if it good or bad for me, because the last I have expected was to slip into one of those famous sponsoring relations.

Anyway, after give her a total of 100 Euro for that night + nice dining and drinking she was quite happy, exchanged email contacts and start bombing me with letters since I'm back. Hmmmm,. Yeah seems me really got some Ukraine GF now.

To sum it up. Ukraine woman are stunning beauty and great value for money. However, they know what they can charge and they will do it,. No doubt about that. Mamba in general is dealing with fake photos, agencies, salons and other fancy things. Don't believe you really talk to the girl on the photo. Ukraine woman are extremely cautious with their health, so is a different story as screwing bitches in Cambodia or Thai. All these stories written here about sex without condom – I don't believe it at all. Furthermore I think the Ukraine professionals have the great potential to fastly change from stunner to starfish when it comes to sex, particular with foreigners. Language for sure is the main hurdle, so I'm going to try hard learn a little bit basic Russian, I'm sure that can boost you up to the next level of interacting with those gals. They are proud and they are very much into culture and style, in simple words fucking $$$ cannot do all for them and that is alright. Yeah, that my 2 cent and thank you for reading thru.

[LilJoey]

Friday night, February 17, arriving in Kiev, getting settled in to an awesome apartment, and getting over to Rio by about 9:30 PM, the weekend was off to a nice start, as I sat there in the downstairs bar watching the awesome hotties strut their stuff three at a time on the small stage with three dancing poles. There were many new faces (or asses) , depending on what you look at first when a hot stripper is in front of you _LOL_ and some familiar ones too.

Gloria, hot blond, looked slimmer and better than she did when I was here back in November. Margarita, stunning tall brunette with uber—long legs and the sexiest curves, is a 10 on my chart, but what can I say, despite her awesome good looks, the language barrier was insurmountable last time in her case, and I was not able to establish a rapport with her, a girl of my dreams, although I had been able to do so with many others who spoke very little English, chiefly with humor or other aspects of personality. So I can just look at her and enjoy her dance, saying to myself,"yeah, now that is what a woman should look like."

I asked the manager if cute blond Margo was in the house. She was, and she was brought to me. While we were chatting, Alla appeared on stage, a scorching hot blond with a very pretty face and perfect body. Margo said Alla was her friend. Alla was flashing bright smiles in my direction, especially after I sent Margo over to her to stuff a 50 UAH tip into her bikini as she danced on stage. I started getting thoughts of a threesome brewing. But alas, Margo informed me that she couldn't go out tonight as she was in the second day of her period. So I took Margo for a private dance to test if it was a real excuse, or if she would warm up to me. She said she would go out tomorrow night. Meanwhile, another guy sitting in the next booth had scooped Alla up while I was busy with Margo, and he took her out, so that was a missed opportunity.

Things went along in this way until I laid my eyes once again on the awesome looking Darina, whom I had met briefly in the VIP room in one of my recent trips last year. Really great curves and model good looks. She in fact says she worked as a photo model last year. Based on her looks, I would believe her. She looks sort of like actress Denise Richards in the 1998 movie "Wild Things", but if you can imagine a more lean and sexy version, you'll start getting the picture. I hadn't pursued her the previous time, chiefly because I had others I was looking at too, but also because the manager warned me that she considers herself a princess and asks for more money than the other girls. Tonight, as she danced in front of me, there were really nice smiles directed at me, which were reciprocated, and I signaled to her to have a seat next to me when she finished her dance set, to which she responded with a big smile and a nodded,"yes". The whole while that she was moving in that oh-so-sexy way of her dance, the music was blaring out some hip-hop number, repeating the phrase over and over,"I want to make you sweat.", and I remember thinking, as my heart raced, watching the gyrations of her perfectly shaped ass and the flexes of her taught, muscled dancer's body,"How appropriate a song for this girl's sizzling moves."

The Penis' head wins the argument:

The private dance with Darina was hot, but she did not allow touching or kissing of her pussy or even nipples, saying invitingly,"Not here." Nevertheless, she was not shy about handling my penis with her hands through my pants, so it was obviously part of her marketing campaign to get invited for a date to my home. The rumor was true. She did ask more than other girls, $500 in fact. I realized after a bit of back and forth on it, that she has this idea stuck in her head that since she is better looking than most of the girls (which is definitely true) , and provides very good service (unlike stunners such as Margarita) , that she must get paid a higher rate. Her obstinance on it seemed tied in to part of her self—esteem.

So I focused my negotiation with her not on reducing her fee, but rather on enlarging the time she would spend with me for it. Ultimately she agreed to stay 5 hours for the $500, which was practically the rest of the night. It seemed to me that it was the best deal one could get from this girl. I know that the other men taking her out, (and she is frequently taken out by many local men as well as visitors) have been paying her $500 fee. So it boiled down to deciding if I wanted to tap this diva or not.

My first inclination was to pass on taking her, but then the opposing arguments surfaced. When I thought of giving her up, I realized that I hadn't seen anything on her level at Rio yet, other than the 'cold fish' Margarita, and nor was I likely to see another girl on her level that night, and that you only live once, etc. Etc. I rationalized that having her stay for 5 hours would at least reduce her net rate to $100 per hour, all the while knowing that my penis was winning this argument way too easily. But on the other hand, I was well aware that girls in the nightclubs like D'lux and Buddha Bar, that couldn't touch Darina in the looks department, were asking for $400 or $500 for just one hour. So relative to that nightclub scene, the 5 hours with Darina was a far better deal. And I knew that one couldn't touch a girl like Darina by fishing for a hottie on the websites like mamba. Ru or others that might come over for $100 / hr or $150 / hour.

So was she worth $500/5 hours? Probably yes, she was worth it, relative to the Kiev market, and taking into account the level of beauty and service that she possessed. The only question was did I want to spend $500 on my penis. Since the argument was being conducted and orchestrated wholly by my penis, the answer was a foregone conclusion.

Everything about the experience with Darina once we reached my apartment fully satisfied my expectations. Her sexy beauty added much excitement for me to the experience of BJ and DATY and 69. The visuals of her bouncing up and down on me cowgirl position, missionary while looking into her blue pretty eyes, doggie while appreciating the delicious shape of her really cute ass, were terrific. From doggie position I pushed her down onto her stomach on the bed, continuing to pound into her, pinning her to the bed, while the gorgeous profile of her pretty face on my pillow and her expression of arousal from the pounding she was receiving, provided fuel to my own passion, and I finally was forced to release the load that had begun stirring in my loins from the moment I had first laid eyes on her this evening. So far, I was very happy with the way the first two and a half hours or so of our date had unfolded.

But after the completion of our first quite lengthy sex session, the sheer exhaustion inside her began to take its toll. And her upbeat demeanor changed. She was still friendly and sweet, but her eyelids were drooping from tiredness. I saw immediately that there was little chance of her having the strength for us to relax for an hour and then having another sex session along the lines of the first one before she left at the end of the 5 hours agreed upon. At this point, she offered to give me a massage. She was trying to be a trooper despite her tiredness and do what she could for me.

Ultimately, I too began to feel the exhaustion stemming from my own going two days without sleep; a fatigue which I had pushed aside in the excitement of my first night in Kiev and the prospect of nailing a supermodel type girl from Rio. And that very thing had just happened in a manner that met all my expectations. But now after sexual release, I began to feel my underlying drowsiness creeping into my bones. So I decided to cut it short and send Darina home, so I could go to sleep, which I saw she wanted to do also. She had stayed for three hours out of the five hours agreed upon. But I had already paid the $500. My net rate ended up being $166 / hr. Which was more than I would have liked to spend. But that's always what happens when the head of the penis makes the decisions.

But I don't regret taking the higher priced Darina. I savor the great sex I had with such a beautiful girl, and I look forward to the next time I can have Darina. The lesson for me is to try to plan in advance so that I can tangle with her when it is not so late at night, and when I am well rested, and when I have some inkling that Darina is sufficiently rested also. I will of course try to use the two hours she 'owes me' from this time to good effect in negotiations for any next session.

LJ

[Climaxnow]

I have no doubt that with your professionalism you negotiated the best possible price at $500 hundred for the model. Reflecting back, would you have changed anything since you technically lost two paid hours?

Thanks for the report. I will be there most of March and hope my reports will be at least half as inspiring as yours.

[LilJoey]

I have no doubt that with your professionalism you negotiated the best possible price at $500 hundred for the model. Reflecting back, would you have changed anything since you technically lost two paid hours?

Thanks for the report. I will be there most of March and hope my reports will be at least half as inspiring as yours.

Climaxnow, you give me too much credit when I'm thinking with my penis. There was nothing professional about this negotiation. I wouldn't even dignify it by calling it a real negotiation. She stood fast at $500 because of the reasons I stated. I negotiated for more time, and caved when she reached the point of some compromise and agreed to stay 5 hours. Even though 5 hours for $500 is more than any other Rio girl ever asked or got. Some ask for $400 for the whole night. Some stay even longer than that for the $400, or even if you only paid them $300. Depends on the rapport between the girl and the guy. In the end, because we were both very exhausted, I did not get the five hours, but only three hours. I wrote in my last post what I would have done differently. I would take into account the lateness of the hour and the issue of fatigue as it may effect whether an agreement on extended time would actually have a chance of being fulfilled. If it seems the promise would be illusory, I would try to realize it before it's too late.

Really the bottom line here was that I really wanted her, so she had the upper hand. The extra money was not that significant to me in relation to what I wanted. If I had known in advance that she would only be there for three hours and I would be paying $500 for her versus $300 for some other Rio girl, then if I would be truthful with you, the answer is I don't know. Maybe I would have spent more time trying to get some other girl who was there and seemed hot enough. But maybe I would have looked around and just decided to take her anyways. She is quite something in my view. I'm not sure what I would have done. What I did was make the deal seem a bit better, which made it easier to agree to her higher price. If Alla had still been there, I would have tried to take her out, as she was quite hot too.

The bottom line here is that this was one of my only two nights in Kiev. I was not prepared to not have a hot girl in my bed that night. That means I was at a disadvantage in terms of negotiation, because I was not truly prepared to walk away. Only guys who are truly prepared to walk away, and it's corollary, they are prepared to do without a girl at all, can win the negotiation, if winning means not paying more than a pre-stated amount.

I have consoled myself with the thought that the next time I take her out, I will seek to extract some additional value for the two hours she "owes." But of course that too will depend on her agreement.

You will often come to such a juncture in a negotiation where the girl doesn't come down from her too-high price. You have a choice at that point. You can walk away, or not. If you walk away, there are two possible outcomes. She lets you walk, or not. If she calls you back, then you may get the lower price you were seeking. But if she lets you walk, then you will not have her body in your hands and enjoy sex with her. You need to be prepared for that when you walk away. The guys who are hard-fixed on the low price above which they will never under any circumstances go, will be better suited to negotiate hard. But they will most often lose the girl. Those guys who truly want the girl, will have to cave in and pay the higher price.

LJ

[Naykan]

Friday night, February 17, arriving in Kiev, getting settled in to an awesome apartment, and getting over to Rio by about 9:30 PM, the weekend was off to a nice start, as I sat there in the downstairs bar watching the awesome hotties strut their stuff three at a time on the small stage with three dancing poles. There were many new faces (or asses) , depending on what you look at first when a hot stripper is in front of you _LOL_ and some familiar ones too.

Gloria, hot blond, looked slimmer and better than she did when I was here back in November. Margarita, stunning tall brunette with uber—long legs and the sexiest curves, is a 10 on my chart, but what can I say, despite her awesome good looks, the language barrier was insurmountable last time in her case, and I was not able to establish a rapport with her, a girl of my dreams, although I had been able to do so with many others who spoke very little English, chiefly with humor or other aspects of personality. So I can just look at her and enjoy her dance, saying to myself,"yeah, now that is what a woman should look like."

I asked the manager if cute blond Margo was in the house. She was, and she was brought to me. While we were chatting, Alla appeared on stage, a scorching hot blond with a very pretty face and perfect body. Margo said Alla was her friend. Alla was flashing bright smiles in my direction, especially after I sent Margo over to her to stuff a 50 UAH tip into her bikini as she danced on stage. I started getting thoughts of a threesome brewing. But alas, Margo informed me that she couldn't go out tonight as she was in the second day of her period. So I took Margo for a private dance to test if it was a real excuse, or if she would warm up to me. She said she would go out tomorrow night. Meanwhile, another guy sitting in the next booth had scooped Alla up while I was busy with Margo, and he took her out, so that was a missed opportunity.

Things went along in this way until I laid my eyes once again on the awesome looking Darina, whom I had met briefly in the VIP room in one of my recent trips last year. Really great curves and model good looks. She in fact says she worked as a photo model last year. Based on her looks, I would believe her. She looks sort of like actress Denise Richards in the 1998 movie "Wild Things", but if you can imagine a more lean and sexy version, you'll start getting the picture. I hadn't pursued her the previous time, chiefly because I had others I was looking at too, but also because the manager warned me that she considers herself a princess and asks for more money than the other girls. Tonight, as she danced in front of me, there were really nice smiles directed at me, which were reciprocated, and I signaled to her to have a seat next to me when she finished her dance set, to which she responded with a big smile and a nodded,"yes". The whole while that she was moving in that oh-so-sexy way of her dance, the music was blaring out some hip-hop number, repeating the phrase over and over,"I want to make you sweat.", and I remember thinking, as my heart raced, watching the gyrations of her perfectly shaped ass and the flexes of her taught, muscled dancer's body,"How appropriate a song for this girl's sizzling moves."

The Penis' head wins the argument:

The private dance with Darina was hot, but she did not allow touching or kissing of her pussy or even nipples, saying invitingly,"Not here." Nevertheless, she was not shy about handling my penis with her hands through my pants, so it was obviously part of her marketing campaign to get invited for a date to my home. The rumor was true. She did ask more than other girls, $500 in fact. I realized after a bit of back and forth on it, that she has this idea stuck in her head that since she is better looking than most of the girls (which is definitely true) , and provides very good service (unlike stunners such as Margarita) , that she must get paid a higher rate. Her obstinance on it seemed tied in to part of her self—esteem.

So I focused my negotiation with her not on reducing her fee, but rather on enlarging the time she would spend with me for it. Ultimately she agreed to stay 5 hours for the $500, which was practically the rest of the night. It seemed to me that it was the best deal one could get from this girl. I know that the other men taking her out, (and she is frequently taken out by many local men as well as visitors) have been paying her $500 fee. So it boiled down to deciding if I wanted to tap this diva or not.

My first inclination was to pass on taking her, but then the opposing arguments surfaced. When I thought of giving her up, I realized that I hadn't seen anything on her level at Rio yet, other than the 'cold fish' Margarita, and nor was I likely to see another girl on her level that night, and that you only live once, etc. Etc. I rationalized that having her stay for 5 hours would at least reduce her net rate to $100 per hour, all the while knowing that my penis was winning this argument way too easily. But on the other hand, I was well aware that girls in the nightclubs like D'lux and Buddha Bar, that couldn't touch Darina in the looks department, were asking for $400 or $500 for just one hour. So relative to that nightclub scene, the 5 hours with Darina was a far better deal. And I knew that one couldn't touch a girl like Darina by fishing for a hottie on the websites like mamba. Ru or others that might come over for $100 / hr or $150 / hour.

So was she worth $500/5 hours? Probably yes, she was worth it, relative to the Kiev market, and taking into account the level of beauty and service that she possessed. The only question was did I want to spend $500 on my penis. Since the argument was being conducted and orchestrated wholly by my penis, the answer was a foregone conclusion.

Everything about the experience with Darina once we reached my apartment fully satisfied my expectations. Her sexy beauty added much excitement for me to the experience of BJ and DATY and 69. The visuals of her bouncing up and down on me cowgirl position, missionary while looking into her blue pretty eyes, doggie while appreciating the delicious shape of her really cute ass, were terrific. From doggie position I pushed her down onto her stomach on the bed, continuing to pound into her, pinning her to the bed, while the gorgeous profile of her pretty face on my pillow and her expression of arousal from the pounding she was receiving, provided fuel to my own passion, and I finally was forced to release the load that had begun stirring in my loins from the moment I had first laid eyes on her this evening. So far, I was very happy with the way the first two and a half hours or so of our date had unfolded.

But after the completion of our first quite lengthy sex session, the sheer exhaustion inside her began to take its toll. And her upbeat demeanor changed. She was still friendly and sweet, but her eyelids were drooping from tiredness. I saw immediately that there was little chance of her having the strength for us to relax for an hour and then having another sex session along the lines of the first one before she left at the end of the 5 hours agreed upon. At this point, she offered to give me a massage. She was trying to be a trooper despite her tiredness and do what she could for me.

Ultimately, I too began to feel the exhaustion stemming from my own going two days without sleep; a fatigue which I had pushed aside in the excitement of my first night in Kiev and the prospect of nailing a supermodel type girl from Rio. And that very thing had just happened in a manner that met all my expectations. But now after sexual release, I began to feel my underlying drowsiness creeping into my bones. So I decided to cut it short and send Darina home, so I could go to sleep, which I saw she wanted to do also. She had stayed for three hours out of the five hours agreed upon. But I had already paid the $500. My net rate ended up being $166 / hr. Which was more than I would have liked to spend. But that's always what happens when the head of the penis makes the decisions.

But I don't regret taking the higher priced Darina. I savor the great sex I had with such a beautiful girl, and I look forward to the next time I can have Darina. The lesson for me is to try to plan in advance so that I can tangle with her when it is not so late at night, and when I am well rested, and when I have some inkling that Darina is sufficiently rested also. I will of course try to use the two hours she 'owes me' from this time to good effect in negotiations for any next session.

LJHi LJ,

Thanks for the great report.

Some questions about Rio club.

How much you pay for the drinks in the club?

How much for private dance?

How old is Darina and Alla?

Are the girls going out for only flats or hotels are ok as well?

Is there a schedule for Rio club to see who is at the club daily?

Thanks in advance for your patienc to answer.

[Ronaldinjo]

I'm in Kiev now, already a weak, weather is shitty, but not as cold as in moscow (where my balls have frosen out). Beutiful ladies in Kiev, no doubght. So what about clus?

1. Delux. Cool club, a lot of beautiful ladies, not so many pros. Fucked one freebie (look 6. 5/10) on this Friday. Not bad in bed. In summary, has a lot of potential, but need to be patient.

2. Buddha bar. Full of pros, didt notice any pro above 8/10. Prices can be nagotiated (about 250 bucks per 3 hours. Cheeper than Rio). Pro makes eye game to you, so you can easily recognise them. All in all needs aditional visit, has good potential.

3. Rio. Gyes, you are exxagerating about strippers beauty, didn't see any stripper there that is actually above 8/10. There were a lot of 5-6. I don't drink a lot of alcohol, maybe after glass of scotch I may change my mind LOL. But thats reality (was there 3 times already). Darina is good looking, but no means more than 8. The same about Alla, even less. Elen has beautiful face, maybe most beautiful there, although too petite and no breasts. Gave 100 grivnas (as lilojey reccomended) to managers, drank tee and beer. All in all the place is nice, but the prices are very very high for performance. You take them home lets say for 3 hours and fuck them maximum 2 times. You can do it with mamaba girl (the same level of beauty) for 600-800 gryvnas in an hour. Lilojey, big mistake to pay 500$, in such a way we are spoiling ukrainian girls (for gods sake, they don't earn 500$ on month in avarage). You don't get adriana Lima for this money, just simple Rio girl (which is avarage for Kiev at best. If you see her in day light).

4. Bordhels. Visited some, some for 600 / h, some 800 / h and some for 1000 / h. There were some hotiies, taxy drivers helped a lot. Most were 6/10, but found one 8. 5/10 and took her home for 2 hours for 1800 gryvna, what a night in was. Will repeat definentelly.

All in all Kiev (along with rusia) is good place for morgening, but ist quite behind riga 2002-2004, where unduoghtfully most beautifull and hot girls were available.

Enjoy gyes.

[LilJoey]

Hi LJ,

Thanks for the great report.

Some questions about Rio club.

How much you pay for the drinks in the club?

How much for private dance?

How old is Darina and Alla?

Are the girls going out for only flats or hotels are ok as well?

Is there a schedule for Rio club to see who is at the club daily?

Thanks in advance for your patienc to answer.I hope you are reading my prior reports and the reports of others about Rio which include the details you asked about. Don't be lazy about this, because you will gain a lot by doing so and improve your trip results.

There is no schedule I'm aware of that is advertised or available for Rio girls. The club of course, internally, must have some sort of list of which girls are in on any particular night. But you can only find out about whether a particular girl is in the club on any given night by asking one of the managers when you are there at the club or perhaps by calling a manager on the phone if he has given you his number and indicated that it's ok to call him about such things. However, I don't think he can tell you much in advance and the best he will probably be able to find out for you is if a girl is in already on that same night, or is supposed to be coming in that night.

All the girls I have met and spoken to have been between the ages of 18 and 23 years old. Didn't speak to Alla. Darina said she was 23, I think, but I may be mistaken. It didn't make much difference to me so I didn't make a point of remembering her exact age. What difference does it make what the age is of specifically Darina and Alla. There are many more gorgeous girls in the club. Somewhere in a past post I made a list of all the girls I had met who I thought were really hot. But you need to view the girls at the three bars in the club when you are there, and select those most appealing to you that are available that night.

Girls who agree to go out with you would go to a flat or hotel. What you must ascertain is whether the hotel and its staff will give you any problem when you try to bring a girl in to the hotel to your room. There may be hotels which charge you an additional fee to bring a girl in, or don't permit. Review this thread for info on specific hotels and their girl policies. I don't know the hotel info as I only have rented apartments.

Prices for dances and drinks have been discussed many times before. Asking this question shows you have not been reading the thread adequately. Dances are 200 UAH, club admission is 100 UAH. Drinks are reasonable. Depends what you order for yourself and how many girls you buy drinks for. I never got the sense that girls are hustling drinks to get a commission on drink sales. They will order what they enjoy. Many like Baileys which is more expensive. Some will order fresh squeezed juice which is less expensive. It depends. I don't like to drink much alcohol, so mostly I order a cappucino, and a bottled water or club soda, or a pot of green tea. There's a restaurant and sushi bar downstairs so there is a full menu to order from if you want. You can look at it when you get there and order how much or how little you want.

LJ

[LilJoey]

I'm in Kiev now, already a weak, weather is shitty, but not as cold as in moscow (where my balls have frosen out). Beutiful ladies in Kiev, no doubght. So what about clus?

1. Delux. Cool club, a lot of beautiful ladies, not so many pros. Fucked one freebie (look 6. 5/10) on this Friday. Not bad in bed. In summary, has a lot of potential, but need to be patient.

2. Buddha bar. Full of pros, didt notice any pro above 8/10. Prices can be nagotiated (about 250 bucks per 3 hours. Cheeper than Rio). Pro makes eye game to you, so you can easily recognise them. All in all needs aditional visit, has good potential.

3. Rio. Gyes, you are exxagerating about strippers beauty, didn't see any stripper there that is actually above 8/10. There were a lot of 5-6. I don't drink a lot of alcohol, maybe after glass of scotch I may change my mind LOL. But thats reality (was there 3 times already). Darina is good looking, but no means more than 8. The same about Alla, even less. Elen has beautiful face, maybe most beautiful there, although too petite and no breasts. Gave 100 grivnas (as lilojey reccomended) to managers, drank tee and beer. All in all the place is nice, but the prices are very very high for performance. You take them home lets say for 3 hours and fuck them maximum 2 times. You can do it with mamaba girl (the same level of beauty) for 600-800 gryvnas in an hour. Lilojey, big mistake to pay 500$, in such a way we are spoiling ukrainian girls (for gods sake, they don't earn 500$ on month in avarage). You don't get adriana Lima for this money, just simple Rio girl (which is avarage for Kiev at best. If you see her in day light).

4. Bordhels. Visited some, some for 600 / h, some 800 / h and some for 1000 / h. There were some hotiies, taxy drivers helped a lot. Most were 6/10, but found one 8. 5/10 and took her home for 2 hours for 1800 gryvna, what a night in was. Will repeat definentelly.

All in all Kiev (along with rusia) is good place for morgening, but ist quite behind riga 2002-2004, where unduoghtfully most beautifull and hot girls were available.

Enjoy gyes.

First, I posted a comparison of my FKK experience in Germany to the Kiev options at this link, for those interested:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2840-FKK-Villa-Vertigo-Grefrath-in-Northwest-Germany&p=1250855&viewfull=1#post1250855

In response to you, I felt Darina and Margarita were more than 8's. But like you acknowledge beauty is entirely subjective to each man's personal taste. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as it is said.

I think you are right and it is probably a mistake to encourage Darina who asks higher prices, not because she is not prettier than many of the other girls (I think she is) , but rather because other girls at Rio may follow suit, and that would be a problem.

Darina agreed to essentially an all night session for the $500, so it didn't seem that much worse than paying $400 for all night which is a fairly standard rate at Rio. The hourly rate stayed the same as a mamba girl asking 800 UAH / hour ($100 USD / hr). It is NOT the rate which was problematic, but rather the total fee that added up to $500 for 5 hours. Probably a mamba girl could be negotiated to spend 5 hours for less than 5 x 800 UAH. But then, I do not believe a girl on Darina's level of beauty is possible to get from mamba.

Also, a guy in town for a very short time must make quick decisions because he cannot risk not having a hot girl for the night, and sometimes it will end up costing more than another guy who has more time to play around with mamba and go through all the fake picture and ugly girls showing up bullshit, which takes just too much time, and is simply not feasible. So your analysis is ok, but fails to take into account the "efficiency factor", which becomes more and more important the smaller the window of time a monger has to achieve his goals. Mamba is not efficient. Rio is efficient.

Also, since I don't believe it is true that one can get girls from mamba website on the same level of beauty of the top girls at Rio strip club (not the average girls at Rio, of which there are a fair number, but the top level beauties at Rio. Get it?) , when I am coming to Kiev for a short visit, I no longer invest all the hours of labor necessary to get mamba girls numbers whose fake pictures I have foolishly drooled over, and no longer spend the hours and hours of waiting for girls who always show up late for appointments and then when they do, they are ugly, obese or undoable for some other reason. All this time waste, will still never guarantee a hot girl on a level of girls like the top girls at Rio, although in most cases you will eventually get a girl from mamba who is hot enough to be doable. But those are two different standards: "doable" versus a girl who is an 8 or a 9. I didn't come for a short visit to Kiev just for girls who are "doable". I am hunting only the big game. Girls who are 8's or 9's or 10's. Is it possible to get even an 8 from mamba. Yes, it is possible, and I'm sure it has happened. Is it probable? No, my friend, I'm afraid it is not probable or likely, and the chance for it to happen gets less, the smaller the amount of time you have to spend on trying for it. So on a quick trip to Kiev it is not the way to go. My opinion. When is mamba useful? When it is a longer trip to Kiev and for the purpose of getting some hot girls who are of adequate middle range beauty, enough to make it fun, for afternoon, in between shags. But for the highlights of the trip, when I want the really very beautiful girls on the 8 or 9 level, I would go to Rio where such girls are available in efficient fashion.

There were two interesting things you wrote, I would ask you to enlarge upon. First at Buddha Bar you wrote it was possible to negotiate $250/3hours. Was this only with one girl? Or was this possible with a number of girls? And what level of looks of girl agreed to that rate which is less than the $100 / hr rate. Perhaps things have changed, but the times I tried with the girls at Buddha Bar they really hot ones were asking $400 and went down to $300, and it was at best for two hours. None agreed to stay for 3 hours. If it has become possible to get hot girls for a $100 / hr rate or less at Buddha Bar, then it becomes an option that is competitive with Rio. In the past, the best I could negotiate with the very hottest girls at Buddha Bar was $300 for 2 hours, which is $150 / hr. And higher than Rio. So please report more data about this so it is possible to see if a trend has developed, or is it a one time occurence.

The second thing I was interested in asking you to enlarge on is what you wrote about Riga. Where and how are the girls currently available and for what rates? I had the impression that Latvia and Lithuania were not such good a destinations for p4p or for foreigners to monger in general. What is your experience there recently? The girls from those countries are certainly hot enough to be intersted in them.

LJ

[AColonizer]

Yes, you are right in this post.

It is stupid to pay more than 300$ for an overnight! It is extremely stupid to pay more than 300$ for an overnight with all condomed sex ALSO for a genuine 8-9-10 rated woman! It is stupid to look for girls in those Western-oriented places only! Everybody is good at paying any great sum (until he becomes poor) : but well, why don't men get married with one beautiful girl? She provides all sex that men want and that's much more cheaper! Last year I felt cheated when I paid 300$ to a 8/9 beauty for an overnight from 8 pm to 8 am (12 hours). I am not a real monger / bastard / playboy but I have much more "balls" than most men here.

The method "customers go to brothels / outcalls" is a second options. A brothel is never safe like our own flat. And quickies are never a good reason for an expensive travel also when our company (or government) pays everything of our travel.

The most comfortable tactics is "prostitutes go to customers / incalls". A girl comes, if we don't like her but she talks honestly, then we pay her "tip" alias "taxi fare". Instead if she doesn't talk honestly (for example, all girls from Moscow and Saint Petersburg) , then we kick her out the door (with no "tip" of course). You can't guess how a girl from Saint Petersburg negotiated a meeting with me.

We don't want Kiev becomes like Moscow!


I'm in Kiev now, already a weak, weather is shitty, but not as cold as in moscow (where my balls have frosen out). Beutiful ladies in Kiev, no doubght. So what about clus?

1. Delux. Cool club, a lot of beautiful ladies, not so many pros. Fucked one freebie (look 6. 5/10) on this Friday. Not bad in bed. In summary, has a lot of potential, but need to be patient.

2. Buddha bar. Full of pros, didt notice any pro above 8/10. Prices can be nagotiated (about 250 bucks per 3 hours. Cheeper than Rio). Pro makes eye game to you, so you can easily recognise them. All in all needs aditional visit, has good potential.

3. Rio. Gyes, you are exxagerating about strippers beauty, didn't see any stripper there that is actually above 8/10. There were a lot of 5-6. I don't drink a lot of alcohol, maybe after glass of scotch I may change my mind LOL. But thats reality (was there 3 times already). Darina is good looking, but no means more than 8. The same about Alla, even less. Elen has beautiful face, maybe most beautiful there, although too petite and no breasts. Gave 100 grivnas (as lilojey reccomended) to managers, drank tee and beer. All in all the place is nice, but the prices are very very high for performance. You take them home lets say for 3 hours and fuck them maximum 2 times. You can do it with mamaba girl (the same level of beauty) for 600-800 gryvnas in an hour. Lilojey, big mistake to pay 500$, in such a way we are spoiling ukrainian girls (for gods sake, they don't earn 500$ on month in avarage). You don't get adriana Lima for this money, just simple Rio girl (which is avarage for Kiev at best. If you see her in day light).

4. Bordhels. Visited some, some for 600 / h, some 800 / h and some for 1000 / h. There were some hotiies, taxy drivers helped a lot. Most were 6/10, but found one 8. 5/10 and took her home for 2 hours for 1800 gryvna, what a night in was. Will repeat definentelly.

All in all Kiev (along with rusia) is good place for morgening, but ist quite behind riga 2002-2004, where unduoghtfully most beautifull and hot girls were available.

Enjoy gyes.

[AColonizer]

Slavic-style pricelist:

First hour 800 grn.

2 hours 1200 grn.

4 hours 1600 grn.

Overnight (10/12 hours) 2500 grn.

Customer decides everything (I repeat, everything)

Western-style pricelist:

First hour 800 grn.

2 hours 1600 grn.

4 hours 3200 grn.

Overnight = 4 hours.

Prostitute decides the performance.

It clear the only option is the Slavic-style pricelist, only.

The Western-style pricelist merely doesn't make any sense. A Western wife is cheaper.

[Ronaldinjo]

First, I posted a comparison of my FKK experience in Germany to the Kiev options at this link, for those interested:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2840-FKK-Villa-Vertigo-Grefrath-in-Northwest-Germany&p=1250855&viewfull=1#post1250855

In response to you, I felt Darina and Margarita were more than 8's. But like you acknowledge beauty is entirely subjective to each man's personal taste. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as it is said.

I think you are right and it is probably a mistake to encourage Darina who asks higher prices, not because she is not prettier than many of the other girls (I think she is) , but rather because other girls at Rio may follow suit, and that would be a problem.

Darina agreed to essentially an all night session for the $500, so it didn't seem that much worse than paying $400 for all night which is a fairly standard rate at Rio. The hourly rate stayed the same as a mamba girl asking 800 UAH / hour ($100 USD / hr). It is NOT the rate which was problematic, but rather the total fee that added up to $500 for 5 hours. Probably a mamba girl could be negotiated to spend 5 hours for less than 5 x 800 UAH. But then, I do not believe a girl on Darina's level of beauty is possible to get from mamba.

Also, a guy in town for a very short time must make quick decisions because he cannot risk not having a hot girl for the night, and sometimes it will end up costing more than another guy who has more time to play around with mamba and go through all the fake picture and ugly girls showing up bullshit, which takes just too much time, and is simply not feasible. So your analysis is ok, but fails to take into account the "efficiency factor", which becomes more and more important the smaller the window of time a monger has to achieve his goals. Mamba is not efficient. Rio is efficient.

Also, since I don't believe it is true that one can get girls from mamba website on the same level of beauty of the top girls at Rio strip club (not the average girls at Rio, of which there are a fair number, but the top level beauties at Rio. Get it?) , when I am coming to Kiev for a short visit, I no longer invest all the hours of labor necessary to get mamba girls numbers whose fake pictures I have foolishly drooled over, and no longer spend the hours and hours of waiting for girls who always show up late for appointments and then when they do, they are ugly, obese or undoable for some other reason. All this time waste, will still never guarantee a hot girl on a level of girls like the top girls at Rio, although in most cases you will eventually get a girl from mamba who is hot enough to be doable. But those are two different standards: "doable" versus a girl who is an 8 or a 9. I didn't come for a short visit to Kiev just for girls who are "doable". I am hunting only the big game. Girls who are 8's or 9's or 10's. Is it possible to get even an 8 from mamba. Yes, it is possible, and I'm sure it has happened. Is it probable? No, my friend, I'm afraid it is not probable or likely, and the chance for it to happen gets less, the smaller the amount of time you have to spend on trying for it. So on a quick trip to Kiev it is not the way to go. My opinion. When is mamba useful? When it is a longer trip to Kiev and for the purpose of getting some hot girls who are of adequate middle range beauty, enough to make it fun, for afternoon, in between shags. But for the highlights of the trip, when I want the really very beautiful girls on the 8 or 9 level, I would go to Rio where such girls are available in efficient fashion.

There were two interesting things you wrote, I would ask you to enlarge upon. First at Buddha Bar you wrote it was possible to negotiate $250/3hours. Was this only with one girl? Or was this possible with a number of girls? And what level of looks of girl agreed to that rate which is less than the $100 / hr rate. Perhaps things have changed, but the times I tried with the girls at Buddha Bar they really hot ones were asking $400 and went down to $300, and it was at best for two hours. None agreed to stay for 3 hours. If it has become possible to get hot girls for a $100 / hr rate or less at Buddha Bar, then it becomes an option that is competitive with Rio. In the past, the best I could negotiate with the very hottest girls at Buddha Bar was $300 for 2 hours, which is $150 / hr. And higher than Rio. So please report more data about this so it is possible to see if a trend has developed, or is it a one time occurence.

The second thing I was interested in asking you to enlarge on is what you wrote about Riga. Where and how are the girls currently available and for what rates? I had the impression that Latvia and Lithuania were not such good a destinations for p4p or for foreigners to monger in general. What is your experience there recently? The girls from those countries are certainly hot enough to be intersted in them.

LJ1. Buddha bar. Spoke to 3 girls in buddha bar. 2 of them 7/10, one 7. 5/10, in the beggining they demanded 300 bucks for 2-3 hours respectively, one of them 350, but in the end the came down to 250 for 3 hours. Maybe there was some lack of klients in that day, but all in all the seemed to me to professional and not that big chance of GFE. So I left. Although I saw one beauty about 8-8. 5/10, that was already taken by turk or italian I suppose. Didn't speak to her, unfortunately. More advantage, you can bye only beer for 50 gryvnas and drink it an hour if you wish, no pressure from the stuff. No need for extra tips. So the club has good potential, don't expect it to bee fool of beauties, it is not, but its possible to find 2-3 decent chicks with little investment.

2. Baltics. In my opinion people in baltic states are most good looking in the world, together with scandinavians, and girls are no exception. Although ukrainian chicks (together with latvo Russian mix) maybe have most beautifull faces in the world, baltic chicks (especially lithuanian (which have mixed with slavs over the centuries) and latvo. Russians, but not pure estonian) are next, but baltic chick have bodies, especially legs that are unmattched, they are just perfect, best in the world. They are a mix of scandinavian, germanic, baltic and slavic (mostly Russian / belorussian and Polish) blood, maybe that what makes them so hot. We had an unforgettable time in lithuania in 1997-2001, and latvia 2002-2004 and estonia (least of all). In lithuania mostly with freebies (prostitution is illegal there, so bad place for morgeners from the beggining, but in that time you could sponsor real stunners. 9/10 and 9. 5/10) , which were easy to catch that time and latvia both freebies and pros (when prostitution was legal then and riga was sex capital of europe). Unfortunately those days are over long time ago, standart of life in baltics are way better than in ukraine or russia, the girls were very much spoiled by foreigners (friends, be carefull not to pay chicks in ukraine more than they deserve, otherwise we are shooting ourselves in leg). But when I visited baltics recently the picture is changed, streets are empty of people (especially daugpilis, kaunas and klaipeda) , since gate for EU was opened a very high quantity of incredible girls left to USA, canada, britain, germany, france, spain, italy, scandinavia, some of them working as pros) , and take in mind that population in latvia or lithuania, not speaking about estonia is less than Kiev alone. So my advise, not to visit those contries now, scene is bad now for morgening, very bad. That paradise gone long time ago, really huge huge piradise that feels like a dream now. Eventhough in riga you can still find decent excort (with right connections) , but uncomparable to 1997-2004. Ukraine and russia are best places now, together with moldova (although quality of girls in moldova a way far from baltics). Friend, take good care about what is left, god knows how long it will stay like this, baltic lesson should teach all of us.

[Ronaldinjo]

First, I posted a comparison of my FKK experience in Germany to the Kiev options at this link, for those interested:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2840-FKK-Villa-Vertigo-Grefrath-in-Northwest-Germany&p=1250855&viewfull=1#post1250855

In response to you, I felt Darina and Margarita were more than 8's. But like you acknowledge beauty is entirely subjective to each man's personal taste. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, as it is said.

I think you are right and it is probably a mistake to encourage Darina who asks higher prices, not because she is not prettier than many of the other girls (I think she is) , but rather because other girls at Rio may follow suit, and that would be a problem.

Darina agreed to essentially an all night session for the $500, so it didn't seem that much worse than paying $400 for all night which is a fairly standard rate at Rio. The hourly rate stayed the same as a mamba girl asking 800 UAH / hour ($100 USD / hr). It is NOT the rate which was problematic, but rather the total fee that added up to $500 for 5 hours. Probably a mamba girl could be negotiated to spend 5 hours for less than 5 x 800 UAH. But then, I do not believe a girl on Darina's level of beauty is possible to get from mamba.

Also, a guy in town for a very short time must make quick decisions because he cannot risk not having a hot girl for the night, and sometimes it will end up costing more than another guy who has more time to play around with mamba and go through all the fake picture and ugly girls showing up bullshit, which takes just too much time, and is simply not feasible. So your analysis is ok, but fails to take into account the "efficiency factor", which becomes more and more important the smaller the window of time a monger has to achieve his goals. Mamba is not efficient. Rio is efficient.

Also, since I don't believe it is true that one can get girls from mamba website on the same level of beauty of the top girls at Rio strip club (not the average girls at Rio, of which there are a fair number, but the top level beauties at Rio. Get it?) , when I am coming to Kiev for a short visit, I no longer invest all the hours of labor necessary to get mamba girls numbers whose fake pictures I have foolishly drooled over, and no longer spend the hours and hours of waiting for girls who always show up late for appointments and then when they do, they are ugly, obese or undoable for some other reason. All this time waste, will still never guarantee a hot girl on a level of girls like the top girls at Rio, although in most cases you will eventually get a girl from mamba who is hot enough to be doable. But those are two different standards: "doable" versus a girl who is an 8 or a 9. I didn't come for a short visit to Kiev just for girls who are "doable". I am hunting only the big game. Girls who are 8's or 9's or 10's. Is it possible to get even an 8 from mamba. Yes, it is possible, and I'm sure it has happened. Is it probable? No, my friend, I'm afraid it is not probable or likely, and the chance for it to happen gets less, the smaller the amount of time you have to spend on trying for it. So on a quick trip to Kiev it is not the way to go. My opinion. When is mamba useful? When it is a longer trip to Kiev and for the purpose of getting some hot girls who are of adequate middle range beauty, enough to make it fun, for afternoon, in between shags. But for the highlights of the trip, when I want the really very beautiful girls on the 8 or 9 level, I would go to Rio where such girls are available in efficient fashion.

There were two interesting things you wrote, I would ask you to enlarge upon. First at Buddha Bar you wrote it was possible to negotiate $250/3hours. Was this only with one girl? Or was this possible with a number of girls? And what level of looks of girl agreed to that rate which is less than the $100 / hr rate. Perhaps things have changed, but the times I tried with the girls at Buddha Bar they really hot ones were asking $400 and went down to $300, and it was at best for two hours. None agreed to stay for 3 hours. If it has become possible to get hot girls for a $100 / hr rate or less at Buddha Bar, then it becomes an option that is competitive with Rio. In the past, the best I could negotiate with the very hottest girls at Buddha Bar was $300 for 2 hours, which is $150 / hr. And higher than Rio. So please report more data about this so it is possible to see if a trend has developed, or is it a one time occurence.

The second thing I was interested in asking you to enlarge on is what you wrote about Riga. Where and how are the girls currently available and for what rates? I had the impression that Latvia and Lithuania were not such good a destinations for p4p or for foreigners to monger in general. What is your experience there recently? The girls from those countries are certainly hot enough to be intersted in them.

LJ1. Buddha bar. Spoke to 3 girls in buddha bar. 2 of them 7/10, one 7. 5/10, in the beggining they demanded 300 bucks for 2-3 hours respectively, one of them 350, but in the end the came down to 250 for 3 hours. Maybe there was some lack of klients in that day, but all in all the seemed to me to professional and not that big chance of GFE. So I left. Although I saw one beauty about 8-8. 5/10, that was already taken by turk or italian I suppose. Didn't speak to her, unfortunately. More advantage, you can bye only beer for 50 gryvnas and drink it an hour if you wish, no pressure from the stuff. No need for extra tips. So the club has good potential, don't expect it to bee fool of beauties, it is not, but its possible to find 2-3 decent chicks with little investment.

2. Baltics. In my opinion people in baltic states are most good looking in the world, together with scandinavians, and girls are no exception. Although ukrainian chicks (together with latvo Russian mix) maybe have most beautifull faces in the world, baltic chicks (especially lithuanian (which have mixed with slavs over the centuries) and latvo. Russians, but not pure estonian) are next, but baltic chick have bodies, especially legs that are unmattched, they are just perfect, best in the world. They are a mix of scandinavian, germanic, baltic and slavic (mostly Russian / belorussian and Polish) blood, maybe that what makes them so hot. We had an unforgettable time in lithuania in 1997-2001, and latvia 2002-2004 and estonia (least of all). In lithuania mostly with freebies (prostitution is illegal there, so bad place for morgeners from the beggining, but in that time you could sponsor real stunners. 9/10 and 9. 5/10) , which were easy to catch that time and latvia both freebies and pros (when prostitution was legal then and riga was sex capital of europe). Unfortunately those days are over long time ago, standart of life in baltics are way better than in ukraine or russia, the girls were very much spoiled by foreigners (friends, be carefull not to pay chicks in ukraine more than they deserve, otherwise we are shooting ourselves in leg). But when I visited baltics recently the picture is changed, streets are empty of people (especially daugpilis, kaunas and klaipeda) , since gate for EU was opened a very high quantity of incredible girls left to USA, canada, britain, germany, france, spain, italy, scandinavia, some of them working as pros) , and take in mind that population in latvia or lithuania, not speaking about estonia is less than Kiev alone. So my advise, not to visit those contries now, scene is bad now for morgening, very bad. That paradise gone long time ago, really huge huge piradise that feels like a dream now. Eventhough in riga you can still find decent excort (with right connections) , but uncomparable to 1997-2004. Ukraine and russia are best places now, together with moldova (although quality of girls in moldova a way far from baltics). Friend, take good care about what is left, god knows how long it will stay like this, baltic lesson should teach all of us.

[LilJoey]

I was wondering if you had suggestions for 4 guys looking for a bachelors party weekend in Kiev at the end of April. I'm concerned that the web sites are mostly fakes or the girl doesn't even arrive. We've never been to Kiev but we have been to other cities in Eastern Europe and SA for similar trips. Never been to FKK clubs. Our goals re GFE experience is to hang around together back at a hotel suite or two so that we can hang with our friends as well as our "new friends" having some drinks or whatever and then to do our entertaining in our individual rooms. We usually like to limit our "service fees" to $300-500 a day. We also do regular touring during the days to get a better flavor for the country. Since our time is very valuable to us, the more that we can arrange ahead of time or minimize the risks, the better.

Thanks for any help you can provide,

DaveDave, I am answering your PM here in the thread, because I believe it will benefit the general readership to view our discussion.

Best Place to Find the Girls For the Batchelor Party

A batchelor's party in Kiev is a great idea. But you have to be mindful of the risks to success, and the pros and cons of other options. As I stated in response to your PM, when arranging a batchelor's party for a buddy, the guys responsible need to make sure that everything will come off well and successfully, as a batchelor's party is a lifetime event amongst friends to be remembered.

That being the case, your concerns about the websites for escorts being mostly fake pictures in Kiev is a true and valid concern. On the one hand using these websites is the way to find hot girls in Kiev for $75 / hr or $100 / hr. And discounts for multiple hour sessions are routine. But one need only read this Kiev thread, as I'm sure you are aware that you must do if you are planning a batchelor's party in Kiev, (read the thread going back to at least March 2011, if you don't it's at your peril) , to know that anyone inviting girls from an escort website in Kiev has to go through a process of rejecting ugly or fat girl, after ugly or fat girl etc. That the agency will send to you, until perhaps at some point a girl who is decent looking enough to fuck will show up. This is decidedly not the way to go about staffing your suite with the very pretty honey's needed for a batchelor's party. It will be a disaster. And you will deserve it if you do it anyways, even after reading this. The only way I could even think of advising you to do such a thing is if you make a preliminary solo trip to Kiev and go through the process of checking out girls until you personally meet and fuck the girls you would deem adequate in terms of looks and service, and build up your own "little black book" with names, stats, and numbers of girls that would be known to you to be ok to invite to a batchelor's party. Then you can find the lower cost girls. Otherwise, disaster is waiting.

The only website which has been reported to use true pics is gia-escort. Com. However, they are pricey. But they list the services each girl provides, and provide escorts for 1 hour. 2 hours or 3 hours, and so are flexible. The few reports about them have been mostly positive in that the services advertised are provided. I have never used them because I have never found their girls to be beautiful enough to deserve the rates they want for a 1 hour date ($180) which is high for the Kiev market. Their best looking girls have high rates even for the three hour dates. Maybe you could negotiate with the managers something more reasonable if you find girls that are attractive enough to you and you are taking a few girls at one booking for a batchelor's party. It's worth an email to them to find out.

In my opinion, the Kiev option which has the most potential for success for a batchelor party, given that you have a budget of $300 to $500 per day for each guy, is to go to the Rio strip club. I have reported on this venue extensively, so assuming you will take my advice and read the thread, I do not need to repeat the information in detail. But it fits your requirements. Their minimum is a three hour date for $300. You will spend a bit more on drinks, private dances and admission. So your budget will work for this venue. In this club you will be able to see the bodies of the girls without clothes, so you will be able to see what you are getting before making any decision. You will be able to speak to the girls at your table and even make out with the girls a bit in the private dances, in order to assess their potential chemistry with you and their rapport with you, in terms of will they be a GFE date. So it is really the best environment you could get as a testing ground for making a decision. But even at Rio, it is not a guarantee on each particular girl's behavior and service level once you get back to your hotel or apartment. You need all your mongering skills to evaluate the different girls you will meet to make a decision on which girl to invite out with you. The methodology and approach has been described in prior posts. Each of you four guys will have to find a girl or girls to his liking who will agree to go out and seems to hold the promise of a GFE companionship. But it seems quite possible to succeed with a good batchelor party experience with girls from this venue.

By comparison, in certain nightclubs in Kiev that are attended by WG's, the prices have historically been higher than at Rio (the nightclub girls were asking for $400 / hour or $300 / hour, and sometimes in my experience the medium hot WG's could be negotiated to $300 / two hours). Also the girls are dressed, and you can't mess around with them in a private dance in advance, so you need to figure out if they will be a GFE by just how they speak to you, and you can asses their appearance by how they look clothed, albeit sexily dressed.

On the other hand, one advantage in a nightclub is that you will see them out in the lighting of the nightclub, which is more bright and revealing than the lighting in a strip club. More than one guy has remarked that a stripper who appeared as a goddess naked up on the stage in the strip club, looked much more ordinary in street clothes in the daylight outside the club.

Also, a recent visitor to Kiev reported that prices of nightclub girls may be coming down to a level more competitive to Rio's prices. Ronaldinjo just recently reported 3 hours for $250 being possible with several girls he spoke to at Buddha Bar. If this is true, and will be a sustained trend, it will mean that nightclub options like the Buddha Bar restaurant / bar or maybe even D'lux nightclub discoteque will become price competitive with Rio strip club, and thus become viable alternatives for mongering.

Despite this lower pricing trend at nightclubs, if it is true, I would probably still prefer mongering at Rio because of the "efficiency factor". By this I mean that there is a lack of efficiency in mongering at a nightclub due to the fact that you must first identify who is a WG, and who is a regular girl just out for fun, and then you must find out if she is negotiable to a reasonable price not to exceed $100 / hour. This will take a lot of time at a nightclub, and is much more efficiently achieved at Rio where the price is fixed at $300/3hours (a $100 / hr rate) and almost all the girls are WG's available for take out, which can be ascertained by asking them directly or asking a manager. Ostensibly, at a nightclub, one would assume that WG's would fairly quickly approach any business looking traveller / tourist who was unaccompanied at the nightclub. But I was at D'lux nightclub for several hours late on a Saturday night, and believe me, either there were no WG's there at the time of my visit (which is unlikely) , or they were there, but figuring out who they are is not as simple as you might think. So my opinion remains that rather than waste a lot of time at nightclubs in Kiev, when I'm there on a short visit and need to be certain of scoring each evening, I would get right down to business at Rio strip club where the prices, certainly of the hottest girls, were lower than the prices at the nightclubs. If I have a few more nights in Kiev, I would mix it up a bit and, in addition to the nights at Rio, I would also go to nightclubs to see what I could come up with there. But for purposes of a batchelor party, nighclubs are too "iffy", and you risk not getting the right girls to take home at a reasonable price.

If you have sufficient time in Kiev, however, there is no reason that you should not all try your hand at freebies too. There are the streets and shopping malls which are good places to start up with girls. There is a great nightlife in Kiev, and there are awesome looking girls all over the place. So depending on how many nights you will have in Kiev, you should definitely hit a place like D'lux on a weekend night where the DJ is rockin' and the girls are deliriously hot. There are many good nightclubs mentioned in the Kiev thread, including Arena, Shooters, Avalon, etc. Maybe one or more of you will succeed in picking up some pretty girls, and taking it all the way with them, and then you will have some "real" memories of Kiev, and perhaps girfriends to come back and visit in the future.

As I mentioned in my initial PM response, the best advice depends on me knowing what your goals are. Since you have said that you want to hang with friends in a hotel suite with the girls all together and then each guy would take a girl back to his own bedroom to party, it sounds like you need to be either in a hotel, or in apartment rentals that can accommodate this.

I think it would be wise to avoid going to Kiev during Easter in the beginning of April and during Euro 2012 in June, but a visit at end April should be ok.

You should click on my profile name on any post of mine and click to "View Forum Posts" and read my posts going back. There is much usefull info you will need. You should also read the full thread and the reports of others, because I did not focus on matters I deemed adequately covered by others, or on low end mamba. Ru action, or on freebie action.

Begin perhaps with this post:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1235917&viewfull=1#post1235917

And read at least those reports referenced by Latexian in Reports of Distinction. That will get you started, but is no substitute for reading the thread.

THE FKK SEX WONDERLAND:

Lastly, I will propose to you an entirely different plan. It is based on my realization that in a short trip to Kiev, the variables and risks inherent in mongering in the various venues might produce results that are not as perfect and fullfilling as you had hoped. Therefore, I had devised for myself, and offered the advice for the others on the forum to consider, the concept of a "Sex Insurance Policy".

By "Sex Insurance Policy" I mean heading straight to an FKK in Germany (or Vienna) after a visit to Kiev. The truth is when I think of it, the place with the most certainty about guaranteed good GFE service, that includes uncovered BJ, otherwise known as OWO or BBBJ, is the FKK club where BBBJ is a standard part of service. By contrast, in Kiev, although you can get an amazing hot young girl to have sex with from Rio strip club, sometimes she will do BBBJ, and sometimes she will only do the BJ covered. It's difficult to know in advance. Additionally, at an FKK, you have a half hour option, which costs less (only 50 Euro at an FKK) , whereas in Kiev an hour is usually the minimum time unit. At an FKK you have an unbelievably sexy environment, with scores of hot girls walking around completely naked, and hitting on you to come have sex with them. It's entirely within the norm at an FKK that you will end up having awesome sex with many different girls multiple times. And you will fuck until your cash runs out, or your penis doesn't work anymore, whichever is sooner__LOL.

But an FKK is a fantasy land. And Kiev is a real world adventure. So it depends on what you will enjoy most. Perhaps you will decide to make an FKK tour for your batchelor party and give up the idea of Kiev. Perhaps you will do as I have been doing, and combine a trip to Kiev with a one night stand in FKK-land. Or perhaps you will stick to your original thought and come to Kiev to learn of its delights.

If you decide to incorporate the FKK experience in your plan, my favorites and recommended destinations to you for it, would be two of the best clubs in the Frankfurt, Germany area, FKK Oase (http://fkk-oase.de/) [great especially in the good weather with an outdoor pool area] and FKK Palace (http://www.the-palace.de/) [very nice facility]. Girls are mostly from Romania and Bulgaria, but there are also some blonde German and Polish girls, and even some latinas.

There is a dedicated thread on this forum for the FKK Clubs, so you would read those threads before you go. Here is a link that shows the location and address of all the FKK clubs in Germany, so you can begin your discovery of FKK-land:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=210980961214256580520.00045d515d0f87adf527e&msa=0

Frankfurt area has the best FKK's I have experienced. This is my opinion, but opinions of mongers differ on this, as you will see when you begin to read the different FKK threads. But Frankfurt does not have a good outcall escort agency scene, as most of its outcall escort agencies are highly overpriced.

A better all around destination for p4p would be Vienna, where the outcall escorts are more reasonably priced (see e. G. www.viennaescort.at Or the varied offerings listed in a portal like www.kontaktbazar.at) and there is an FKK club in Vienna also, FKK Goldentime (http://www.goldentime.at/) , and the girls are hot and come from all the nearby countries, including blondes from Hungary and the Slovak Republic, as well as the usual Romanians and Bulgarians.

It comes to mind to mention that if you are thinking of coming to Eastern Europe because you like the way Eastern European women look, then since you have a sizeable daily budget of $300 to $500 per day, and you probably speak no Russian, then perhaps take a look at a different possibility. The fact is that thousands of young incredibly beautiful Eastern European girls have flocked en masse In recent years to London. They come from all of our favorite EE countries for women, including Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Romania, etc. In order to maintain themselves, many have opted to offer their pussy's for rent. Just take a look at www.londonescortguide.com And see the kind of awesome beauties that are in London just waiting for you to call them for a date for 150 GBP / hr. (about $236 USD / hr) So although it's more costly per hour than in Kiev, it's less complicated. Perhaps consider celebrating your batchelor's party with the offerings in London, which is an awesome city, has a great nightlife, you will have no language barrier, and can have an awesome batchelor's party with women from Eastern Europe without actually travelling to Eastern Europe, because their gorgeous women have brought their beautiful pussies to London just for you.

I also can't fail to mention Prague as a possibility also. It is certainly my favorite as far as general touring is concerned. As far as p4p, I found that it was difficult to find lower cost GFE services. It was not possible to easily get GFE at the various sex clubs in town. For example, at the vaunted K-5 club very few girls would permit DATY and offer BBBJ. For GFE service in Prague with very beautiful girls, I found I needed to go to the high end outcall escort agencies and book multiple hour dates for 200 or 300 Euros. There have been more recent reports of GFE service at some of the very numerous "privats", the girl apartments which abound all over Prague, but the level of beauty of the girls in these privats is a hit or miss thing. So it would be hard to rely on it for a batchelor's party, unless you did the advance leg work and came to Prague and tried the privats out until you found the girls who were the right stuff.

Same thing goes for Budapest where awesome looking girls abound, but there are a lot of rip off fake pic website escorts. Yet there are a lot of hot girls in apartments all over the city. But one needs to be there and investigate it personally in advance to know where to get the girls who meet your requirements, as I have nowhere I could send you with any guarantees in advance. Same for places like Warsaw, which definitely have potential, judging by the good looks of many Polish girls.

So with your budget and goals, I will tell you what I know that is more or less a reliable given. Bottom Line: You won't be sorry if you go to FKK Oase or Palace, even if you only go or one day and night. And you won't be sorry if you go to Kiev and check out Rio strip club, and indulge in all the other options that Kiev has to offer, which are well described in the Kiev thread.

Happy Hunting,

LJ

[Vitrea]

Dave, I am answering your PM here in the thread, because I believe it will benefit the general readership to view our discussion.

Best Place to Find the Girls For the Batchelor Party

A batchelor's party in Kiev is a great idea. But you have to be mindful of the risks to success, and the pros and cons of other options. As I stated in response to your PM, when arranging a batchelor's party for a buddy, the guys responsible need to make sure that everything will come off well and successfully, as a batchelor's party is a lifetime event amongst friends to be remembered.

So with your budget and goals, I will tell you what I know that is more or less a reliable given. Bottom Line: You won't be sorry if you go to FKK Oase or Palace, even if you only go or one day and night. And you won't be sorry if you go to Kiev and check out Rio strip club, and indulge in all the other options that Kiev has to offer, which are well described in the Kiev thread.

Happy Hunting,

LJLiljoey, thank you very much for this and other great reports. You come across as no non-sense no drama guy. One who knows what you want and knows how to get it.

In Kiev, did you take any of these girls out to dinner and or touring / cafes during the day? Is it possible to do that without paying an arm and a leg?

What percentage of Rio and night club girls speak english?

[LilJoey]

Liljoey, thank you very much for this and other great reports. You come across as no non-sense no drama guy. One who knows what you want and knows how to get it.

In Kiev, did you take any of these girls out to dinner and or touring / cafes during the day? Is it possible to do that without paying an arm and a leg?

What percentage of Rio and night club girls speak english?I tried many times to get Rio girls to hook up with me during the daytime before their club work hours, not necessarily to feed them, but to come have sex at an earlier time during the day when I had more energy, so that I didn't have to wait until late at night in order to first take them out from Rio. Never was successful. The primary reason seems to be the lack of time for this in their schedules, although I have hypothesized that maybe they are warned off from doing dates during the day by their bosses at the club and they are afraid of crossing their employers on this, although I have suggested to them that they can certainly report any dates they do and pay into the club any portion due from it, so that it shouldn't make a difference to the club if they are honest about it. But none have agreed to it with me, although other guys have claimed success on this.

Consider that they work the entire night from 8:00 PM Rio club opening time until 5:00 AM club closing time, and then they must go home and get some sleep. Typically if they get to sleep by 6:00 or 7:00 AM they would like to sleep most of the day, so they can function at work at night. So they are not early risers, and usually come up for air around 3:00 to 5:00 PM after sleeping the whole day, and then they eat and get ready to go to the club for work again. There are also those that sleep less, and just get a few hours of sleep in the morning, before going to university for their classes and other stuff they must do, and these are the girls who are really functioning at the edge of exhaustion when you see them stripping at Rio. It has happened more than once that such a girl whom I have taken out of the club for a date, when she is at my apartment and it's 3:00 or 4:00 AM, and she gets into a relaxing type of mode on my couch or bed, she will easily be overcome by her fatigue. So keep them active and don't do stuff like let them lay on a bed while you massage their feet or head or anything in between, because it's a sure-fire recipe for them to fall asleep, or start feeling their inherent tiredness.

Percentage that speak English is hard to say. TOnly some are fluent in English. There are quite a few that only speak a few words and understand a bit more. But how much do you really need to speak? Well of course it's more enjoyable if you can converse and joke around. If you have been reading my prior posts adequately, you should know about my recommendation to have a data plan for your smartphone so that you can access a translation application on your phone when you need it to help communicate with a girl that is not good in English. I get Google Translate on my Blackberry. Another fellow showed me a Touch and Talk application on his iPhone which actually will listen to your spoken English and speak back a Russian translation, and vice-versa. So you can dare to hook up with girls who don't speak English well. If two people are having fun and have motivation to be together, then that is enough incentive to communicate by typing into a computer translation application like Google Translate. By the way in my laptop the full version gives a Russian letter keyboard for the girl to be able to type in Russian what she wants to say to you. I've been there done that in just this manner and it has been fine.

If you want to date girls and take them out to dinner and such, then Rio is really not the place to monger for that. But there are so many more girls in Kiev that would be so happy to have dinner with you, that the lack of Rio girls for this will be like a small blip on your pussy meter.

Are you talking about freebies, as in a normal date with a girl who you would like to wine and dine for the pleasure of her company? Are you kidding? There are girls all over the place that would enjoy being wined and dined. Not only in nightclubs and discos. Just roam the streets and shopping malls and start up with whomever you are attracted to. Use any of your lines that you usually use when starting up with a girl. Even simply asking them for help about something in the shop is enough to start a conversation. And it will not be long before you will have succeeded in having a conversation turn into an invitation to them to buy them a drink or a lunch or something. They love it when a seemingly wealthy man wants to spend money on them. Try to take out girls who seem like they are nice human beings.

But watch out for the serial daters and big users. They're all over the place too. Learn how to look at a menu in Russian. ALWAYS do the ordering yourself of the food and drink that they will be eating. DO NOT let them do it. Ask them what they want and after you have heard them, you interact with the waiter and keep control of the process. The wait staff should never be permitted to get the idea that you will pay for anything that you have not yourself ordered. This is sage advice that I have read on this forum and it makes sense to me. And you disregard it, it is at your peril, and you should not be upset if you receive a very large bill that you didn't intend to have.

My posts have not focussed on freebie dating because of the short nature of my visits to Kiev. And the lack of time to develop freebies into full relationships including sex. But there are a lot of posts in the Kiev thread and other threads in Russia about how to date Russian (or Ukrainian) women. You should read the thread and ask questions of those guys who have focussed on writing about freebies dating in Kiev. You may not be able to follow in the footsteps of these guys because you don't know how to speak Russian, or know much about the culture. But that's no reason to stop you in Kiev, the capital city, from approaching women the same way as you might anywhere. Many will speak enough English to speak with you. And it's ok to approach women far younger than you normally would also, as it seems quite acceptable for a girl in her 20's to be with a man that looks in his 40's, and similar. Let the girl be the one to reject you because she thinks you are too old for her. You just keep plugging away and hitting on the girls whose look you like, and if you are personable and seem cultured and nice, you will be surprised at how young the girls will be with whom you will be able to get dates. This is if you're an older guy, as are many of the mongers out there on this forum, who are post divorces and lots of life's baggage. But there are some quite young guys who have gotten into this hobby as well. So if you're a young fellow in your 20's, then go enjoy Kiev, as you are in an even better position to do so.

One of the big resources for dating girls in Kiev is mamba. Ru, a social website, where you can meet girls and arrange actual dates. Travelgirls. Com is another. Vkontakte is another. Etc etc all ok for regular online dating.

You have only asked about having dinners with girls so I'm not sure if you're interested in p4p. But if you are, mamba. Ru also has a fair number of girls on it, in Kiev at least, who explicitly say in their profiles "I am looking for a sponsor" or even more explicitly,"I offer sex for money". If you respond to those profiles, you can find girls who will agree to get into your bed immediately for sex for money, without going through the whole dating thing until you can get them up to your apartment. But you can also have dinner with them, as a way of getting to know them. Those girls looking for "sponsors" are in fact looking for a benefactor / boyfriend and long term sponsorship, even though they will also enter into a more transient sponshorship of only a night, or even 1 or 2 hours.

Good luck with your trip to Kiev.

LJ

[AColonizer]

Unfortunately, men use their penis to think, and beautiful women are already spoilt everywhere. It is years I repeat the same problem. Anyway congratulations for your taste. And don't be afraid if you don't find girls for the right price, because they never deserve huge money. Just leave them in their shitty attitude. It is clear all people who write here to pay high prices, they are pimps or pimps' friends. For your convenience, I have contacted providers asking 250$ per night.


1. Buddha bar. Spoke to 3 girls in buddha bar. 2 of them 7/10, one 7. 5/10, in the beggining they demanded 300 bucks for 2-3 hours respectively, one of them 350, but in the end the came down to 250 for 3 hours. Maybe there was some lack of klients in that day, but all in all the seemed to me to professional and not that big chance of GFE. So I left. Although I saw one beauty about 8-8. 5/10, that was already taken by turk or italian I suppose. Didn't speak to her, unfortunately. More advantage, you can bye only beer for 50 gryvnas and drink it an hour if you wish, no pressure from the stuff. No need for extra tips. So the club has good potential, don't expect it to bee fool of beauties, it is not, but its possible to find 2-3 decent chicks with little investment.

2. Baltics. In my opinion people in baltic states are most good looking in the world, together with scandinavians, and girls are no exception. Although ukrainian chicks (together with latvo Russian mix) maybe have most beautifull faces in the world, baltic chicks (especially lithuanian (which have mixed with slavs over the centuries) and latvo. Russians, but not pure estonian) are next, but baltic chick have bodies, especially legs that are unmattched, they are just perfect, best in the world. They are a mix of scandinavian, germanic, baltic and slavic (mostly Russian / belorussian and Polish) blood, maybe that what makes them so hot. We had an unforgettable time in lithuania in 1997-2001, and latvia 2002-2004 and estonia (least of all). In lithuania mostly with freebies (prostitution is illegal there, so bad place for morgeners from the beggining, but in that time you could sponsor real stunners. 9/10 and 9. 5/10) , which were easy to catch that time and latvia both freebies and pros (when prostitution was legal then and riga was sex capital of europe). Unfortunately those days are over long time ago, standart of life in baltics are way better than in ukraine or russia, the girls were very much spoiled by foreigners (friends, be carefull not to pay chicks in ukraine more than they deserve, otherwise we are shooting ourselves in leg). But when I visited baltics recently the picture is changed, streets are empty of people (especially daugpilis, kaunas and klaipeda) , since gate for EU was opened a very high quantity of incredible girls left to USA, canada, britain, germany, france, spain, italy, scandinavia, some of them working as pros) , and take in mind that population in latvia or lithuania, not speaking about estonia is less than Kiev alone. So my advise, not to visit those contries now, scene is bad now for morgening, very bad. That paradise gone long time ago, really huge huge piradise that feels like a dream now. Eventhough in riga you can still find decent excort (with right connections) , but uncomparable to 1997-2004. Ukraine and russia are best places now, together with moldova (although quality of girls in moldova a way far from baltics). Friend, take good care about what is left, god knows how long it will stay like this, baltic lesson should teach all of us.

[Ronaldinjo]

Dave, I am answering your PM here in the thread, because I believe it will benefit the general readership to view our discussion.

Best Place to Find the Girls For the Batchelor Party

A batchelor's party in Kiev is a great idea. But you have to be mindful of the risks to success, and the pros and cons of other options. As I stated in response to your PM, when arranging a batchelor's party for a buddy, the guys responsible need to make sure that everything will come off well and successfully, as a batchelor's party is a lifetime event amongst friends to be remembered.

That being the case, your concerns about the websites for escorts being mostly fake pictures in Kiev is a true and valid concern. On the one hand using these websites is the way to find hot girls in Kiev for $75 / hr or $100 / hr. And discounts for multiple hour sessions are routine. But one need only read this Kiev thread, as I'm sure you are aware that you must do if you are planning a batchelor's party in Kiev, (read the thread going back to at least March 2011, if you don't it's at your peril) , to know that anyone inviting girls from an escort website in Kiev has to go through a process of rejecting ugly or fat girl, after ugly or fat girl etc. That the agency will send to you, until perhaps at some point a girl who is decent looking enough to fuck will show up. This is decidedly not the way to go about staffing your suite with the very pretty honey's needed for a batchelor's party. It will be a disaster. And you will deserve it if you do it anyways, even after reading this. The only way I could even think of advising you to do such a thing is if you make a preliminary solo trip to Kiev and go through the process of checking out girls until you personally meet and fuck the girls you would deem adequate in terms of looks and service, and build up your own "little black book" with names, stats, and numbers of girls that would be known to you to be ok to invite to a batchelor's party. Then you can find the lower cost girls. Otherwise, disaster is waiting.

The only website which has been reported to use true pics is gia-escort. Com. However, they are pricey. But they list the services each girl provides, and provide escorts for 1 hour. 2 hours or 3 hours, and so are flexible. The few reports about them have been mostly positive in that the services advertised are provided. I have never used them because I have never found their girls to be beautiful enough to deserve the rates they want for a 1 hour date ($180) which is high for the Kiev market. Their best looking girls have high rates even for the three hour dates. Maybe you could negotiate with the managers something more reasonable if you find girls that are attractive enough to you and you are taking a few girls at one booking for a batchelor's party. It's worth an email to them to find out.

In my opinion, the Kiev option which has the most potential for success for a batchelor party, given that you have a budget of $300 to $500 per day for each guy, is to go to the Rio strip club. I have reported on this venue extensively, so assuming you will take my advice and read the thread, I do not need to repeat the information in detail. But it fits your requirements. Their minimum is a three hour date for $300. You will spend a bit more on drinks, private dances and admission. So your budget will work for this venue. In this club you will be able to see the bodies of the girls without clothes, so you will be able to see what you are getting before making any decision. You will be able to speak to the girls at your table and even make out with the girls a bit in the private dances, in order to assess their potential chemistry with you and their rapport with you, in terms of will they be a GFE date. So it is really the best environment you could get as a testing ground for making a decision. But even at Rio, it is not a guarantee on each particular girl's behavior and service level once you get back to your hotel or apartment. You need all your mongering skills to evaluate the different girls you will meet to make a decision on which girl to invite out with you. The methodology and approach has been described in prior posts. Each of you four guys will have to find a girl or girls to his liking who will agree to go out and seems to hold the promise of a GFE companionship. But it seems quite possible to succeed with a good batchelor party experience with girls from this venue.

By comparison, in certain nightclubs in Kiev that are attended by WG's, the prices have historically been higher than at Rio (the nightclub girls were asking for $400 / hour or $300 / hour, and sometimes in my experience the medium hot WG's could be negotiated to $300 / two hours). Also the girls are dressed, and you can't mess around with them in a private dance in advance, so you need to figure out if they will be a GFE by just how they speak to you, and you can asses their appearance by how they look clothed, albeit sexily dressed.

On the other hand, one advantage in a nightclub is that you will see them out in the lighting of the nightclub, which is more bright and revealing than the lighting in a strip club. More than one guy has remarked that a stripper who appeared as a goddess naked up on the stage in the strip club, looked much more ordinary in street clothes in the daylight outside the club.

Also, a recent visitor to Kiev reported that prices of nightclub girls may be coming down to a level more competitive to Rio's prices. Ronaldinjo just recently reported 3 hours for $250 being possible with several girls he spoke to at Buddha Bar. If this is true, and will be a sustained trend, it will mean that nightclub options like the Buddha Bar restaurant / bar or maybe even D'lux nightclub discoteque will become price competitive with Rio strip club, and thus become viable alternatives for mongering.

Despite this lower pricing trend at nightclubs, if it is true, I would probably still prefer mongering at Rio because of the "efficiency factor". By this I mean that there is a lack of efficiency in mongering at a nightclub due to the fact that you must first identify who is a WG, and who is a regular girl just out for fun, and then you must find out if she is negotiable to a reasonable price not to exceed $100 / hour. This will take a lot of time at a nightclub, and is much more efficiently achieved at Rio where the price is fixed at $300/3hours (a $100 / hr rate) and almost all the girls are WG's available for take out, which can be ascertained by asking them directly or asking a manager. Ostensibly, at a nightclub, one would assume that WG's would fairly quickly approach any business looking traveller / tourist who was unaccompanied at the nightclub. But I was at D'lux nightclub for several hours late on a Saturday night, and believe me, either there were no WG's there at the time of my visit (which is unlikely) , or they were there, but figuring out who they are is not as simple as you might think. So my opinion remains that rather than waste a lot of time at nightclubs in Kiev, when I'm there on a short visit and need to be certain of scoring each evening, I would get right down to business at Rio strip club where the prices, certainly of the hottest girls, were lower than the prices at the nightclubs. If I have a few more nights in Kiev, I would mix it up a bit and, in addition to the nights at Rio, I would also go to nightclubs to see what I could come up with there. But for purposes of a batchelor party, nighclubs are too "iffy", and you risk not getting the right girls to take home at a reasonable price.

If you have sufficient time in Kiev, however, there is no reason that you should not all try your hand at freebies too. There are the streets and shopping malls which are good places to start up with girls. There is a great nightlife in Kiev, and there are awesome looking girls all over the place. So depending on how many nights you will have in Kiev, you should definitely hit a place like D'lux on a weekend night where the DJ is rockin' and the girls are deliriously hot. There are many good nightclubs mentioned in the Kiev thread, including Arena, Shooters, Avalon, etc. Maybe one or more of you will succeed in picking up some pretty girls, and taking it all the way with them, and then you will have some "real" memories of Kiev, and perhaps girfriends to come back and visit in the future.

As I mentioned in my initial PM response, the best advice depends on me knowing what your goals are. Since you have said that you want to hang with friends in a hotel suite with the girls all together and then each guy would take a girl back to his own bedroom to party, it sounds like you need to be either in a hotel, or in apartment rentals that can accommodate this.

I think it would be wise to avoid going to Kiev during Easter in the beginning of April and during Euro 2012 in June, but a visit at end April should be ok.

You should click on my profile name on any post of mine and click to "View Forum Posts" and read my posts going back. There is much usefull info you will need. You should also read the full thread and the reports of others, because I did not focus on matters I deemed adequately covered by others, or on low end mamba. Ru action, or on freebie action.

Begin perhaps with this post:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1235917&viewfull=1#post1235917

And read at least those reports referenced by Latexian in Reports of Distinction. That will get you started, but is no substitute for reading the thread.

THE FKK SEX WONDERLAND:

Lastly, I will propose to you an entirely different plan. It is based on my realization that in a short trip to Kiev, the variables and risks inherent in mongering in the various venues might produce results that are not as perfect and fullfilling as you had hoped. Therefore, I had devised for myself, and offered the advice for the others on the forum to consider, the concept of a "Sex Insurance Policy".

By "Sex Insurance Policy" I mean heading straight to an FKK in Germany (or Vienna) after a visit to Kiev. The truth is when I think of it, the place with the most certainty about guaranteed good GFE service, that includes uncovered BJ, otherwise known as OWO or BBBJ, is the FKK club where BBBJ is a standard part of service. By contrast, in Kiev, although you can get an amazing hot young girl to have sex with from Rio strip club, sometimes she will do BBBJ, and sometimes she will only do the BJ covered. It's difficult to know in advance. Additionally, at an FKK, you have a half hour option, which costs less (only 50 Euro at an FKK) , whereas in Kiev an hour is usually the minimum time unit. At an FKK you have an unbelievably sexy environment, with scores of hot girls walking around completely naked, and hitting on you to come have sex with them. It's entirely within the norm at an FKK that you will end up having awesome sex with many different girls multiple times. And you will fuck until your cash runs out, or your penis doesn't work anymore, whichever is sooner__LOL.

But an FKK is a fantasy land. And Kiev is a real world adventure. So it depends on what you will enjoy most. Perhaps you will decide to make an FKK tour for your batchelor party and give up the idea of Kiev. Perhaps you will do as I have been doing, and combine a trip to Kiev with a one night stand in FKK-land. Or perhaps you will stick to your original thought and come to Kiev to learn of its delights.

If you decide to incorporate the FKK experience in your plan, my favorites and recommended destinations to you for it, would be two of the best clubs in the Frankfurt, Germany area, FKK Oase (

http://fkk-oase.de/

) [great especially in the good weather with an outdoor pool area] and FKK Palace (

http://www.the-palace.de/

) [very nice facility]. Girls are mostly from Romania and Bulgaria, but there are also some blonde German and Polish girls, and even some latinas.

There is a dedicated thread on this forum for the FKK Clubs, so you would read those threads before you go. Here is a link that shows the location and address of all the FKK clubs in Germany, so you can begin your discovery of FKK-land:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=210980961214256580520.00045d515d0f87adf527e&msa=0

Frankfurt area has the best FKK's I have experienced. This is my opinion, but opinions of mongers differ on this, as you will see when you begin to read the different FKK threads. But Frankfurt does not have a good outcall escort agency scene, as most of its outcall escort agencies are highly overpriced.

A better all around destination for p4p would be Vienna, where the outcall escorts are more reasonably priced (see e. G.

www.viennaescort.at

Or the varied offerings listed in a portal like.

www.kontaktbazar.at

) and there is an FKK club in Vienna also, FKK Goldentime (

http://www.goldentime.at/

) , and the girls are hot and come from all the nearby countries, including blondes from Hungary and the Slovak Republic, as well as the usual Romanians and Bulgarians.

It comes to mind to mention that if you are thinking of coming to Eastern Europe because you like the way Eastern European women look, then since you have a sizeable daily budget of $300 to $500 per day, and you probably speak no Russian, then perhaps take a look at a different possibility. The fact is that thousands of young incredibly beautiful Eastern European girls have flocked en masse In recent years to London. They come from all of our favorite EE countries for women, including Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Romania, etc. In order to maintain themselves, many have opted to offer their pussy's for rent. Just take a look at.

www.londonescortguide.com

And see the kind of awesome beauties that are in London just waiting for you to call them for a date for 150 GBP / hr. (about $236 USD / hr) So although it's more costly per hour than in Kiev, it's less complicated. Perhaps consider celebrating your batchelor's party with the offerings in London, which is an awesome city, has a great nightlife, you will have no language barrier, and can have an awesome batchelor's party with women from Eastern Europe without actually travelling to Eastern Europe, because their gorgeous women have brought their beautiful pussies to London just for you.

I also can't fail to mention Prague as a possibility also. It is certainly my favorite as far as general touring is concerned. As far as p4p, I found that it was difficult to find lower cost GFE services. It was not possible to easily get GFE at the various sex clubs in town. For example, at the vaunted K-5 club very few girls would permit DATY and offer BBBJ. For GFE service in Prague with very beautiful girls, I found I needed to go to the high end outcall escort agencies and book multiple hour dates for 200 or 300 Euros. There have been more recent reports of GFE service at some of the very numerous "privats", the girl apartments which abound all over Prague, but the level of beauty of the girls in these privats is a hit or miss thing. So it would be hard to rely on it for a batchelor's party, unless you did the advance leg work and came to Prague and tried the privats out until you found the girls who were the right stuff.

Same thing goes for Budapest where awesome looking girls abound, but there are a lot of rip off fake pic website escorts. Yet there are a lot of hot girls in apartments all over the city. But one needs to be there and investigate it personally in advance to know where to get the girls who meet your requirements, as I have nowhere I could send you with any guarantees in advance. Same for places like Warsaw, which definitely have potential, judging by the good looks of many Polish girls.

So with your budget and goals, I will tell you what I know that is more or less a reliable given. Bottom Line: You won't be sorry if you go to FKK Oase or Palace, even if you only go or one day and night. And you won't be sorry if you go to Kiev and check out Rio strip club, and indulge in all the other options that Kiev has to offer, which are well described in the Kiev thread.

Happy Hunting,

LJI have been in Prague several times, visited K5 and darling kabaret, there were some beautiful girls over there, but didn't find better places. Lilojey, I think in Kiev there is better chance to be with better looking girls, as in Kiev girls are prettier. What do you think about it lilojey? As one that never been to german fkk clubs, what is difference in girls beauty between fkk clubs and k5 and darling in prague? Why you are not including Prague in your meny? Suppose geographically it is closer to your homeland. Why don't you look toward russia (moscow and st. Peter) to more advantures? Girls over there are very sexy either and higher chance they speak english than in Kiev (maybe educational reasons). I had problems in Kiev in language point of view, very few spoke decent english, and it is difficult to expirience real GFE with language barrier. My Russian is poor (unfortunately). As for future I plan to visit Brazil (at least people speak my native language) , as Portugal is dead country concerning morgening.

[Gentleman Travel]

Dave, I am answering your PM here in the thread, because I believe it will benefit the general readership to view our discussion.

Best Place to Find the Girls For the Batchelor Party

A batchelor's party in Kiev is a great idea. But you have to be mindful of the risks to success, and the pros and cons of other options. As I stated in response to your PM, when arranging a batchelor's party for a buddy, the guys responsible need to make sure that everything will come off well and successfully, as a batchelor's party is a lifetime event amongst friends to be remembered.

That being the case, your concerns about the websites for escorts being mostly fake pictures in Kiev is a true and valid concern. On the one hand using these websites is the way to find hot girls in Kiev for $75 / hr or $100 / hr. And discounts for multiple hour sessions are routine. But one need only read this Kiev thread, as I'm sure you are aware that you must do if you are planning a batchelor's party in Kiev, (read the thread going back to at least March 2011, if you don't it's at your peril) , to know that anyone inviting girls from an escort website in Kiev has to go through a process of rejecting ugly or fat girl, after ugly or fat girl etc. That the agency will send to you, until perhaps at some point a girl who is decent looking enough to fuck will show up. This is decidedly not the way to go about staffing your suite with the very pretty honey's needed for a batchelor's party. It will be a disaster. And you will deserve it if you do it anyways, even after reading this. The only way I could even think of advising you to do such a thing is if you make a preliminary solo trip to Kiev and go through the process of checking out girls until you personally meet and fuck the girls you would deem adequate in terms of looks and service, and build up your own "little black book" with names, stats, and numbers of girls that would be known to you to be ok to invite to a batchelor's party. Then you can find the lower cost girls. Otherwise, disaster is waiting.I would just like to add that you don't necessarily have to find dozens of quality girls for your bachelor party.

First you have to find 2 or 3 really good girls (in terms of price and quality) whether they be pros or semi-pros. Then they can find other girls for you. Like any business, referrals are invaluable. All girls are plugged into vast networks of friends and colleagues, and if you find one that suits your needs then chances are she has friends who will meet your friends' needs. A hot 8. 0 blonde who is doing everything you want for $300 is not going to set you up with frigid faker who wants $500. So work the dyev network to expand your network.

[LilJoey]

I have been in Prague several times, visited K5 and darling kabaret, there were some beautiful girls over there, but didn't find better places. Lilojey, I think in Kiev there is better chance to be with better looking girls, as in Kiev girls are prettier. What do you think about it lilojey? As one that never been to german fkk clubs, what is difference in girls beauty between fkk clubs and k5 and darling in prague? Why you are not including Prague in your meny? Suppose geographically it is closer to your homeland. Why don't you look toward russia (moscow and st. Peter) to more advantures? Girls over there are very sexy either and higher chance they speak english than in Kiev (maybe educational reasons). I had problems in Kiev in language point of view, very few spoke decent english, and it is difficult to expirience real GFE with language barrier. My Russian is poor (unfortunately). As for future I plan to visit Brazil (at least people speak my native language) , as Portugal is dead country concerning morgening.Well I certainly agree about Brazil being a great destination. I'm dying to go to Rio and Sao Paulon but it's a very long flight and a destination I'd rather go with buddies, and my friends can't make decisions, so that trip hasn't happened yet. I've gone solo to European destinations. Prague is just as easy for me to get to as any European destination. I did mention Prague as a destination that could be considered for a batchelor's party. Czech girls are beautiful and awesome looking. But I voiced my reservations about Prague in that the sex clubs and strip clubs were not offering GFE service (uncovered BJ) for the most part, and I was only able to get GFE sex with very beautiful girls through the high end internet escort agencies for Prague. Those prices are not too far off from what the prices are at Rio strip club in Kiev. So maybe I should consider Prague for a revisit at some point. But in the last couple of years, I have been very happy with Kiev and with the FKK's.

Are Ukrainian girls prettier than Czech girls? I don't know if I would go so far as to say that. There are gorgeous 8's. 9's and 10's in both countries, but I've definitely had more sex fun in Kiev than I've had in Prague. Great sex has been more accessible in Kiev.

If you have not gone to FKK's yet, you have cheated yourself out of one of the best sexual adventures that exists. Do yourself a favor and get over to Frankfurt Germany and visit FKK Oase and FKK Palace. There are others in the area which you can investigate if your penis still wants more, but these two are the best comparatively. You have really cheap flights on Ryan Air from Porto or Faro airports in Portugal to the Frankfurt Hahn airport, and from Hahn there is a bus into Frankfurt. After experiencing the FKK's, you will realize what a joke clubs like K-5 and Cabaret in Prague are by comparison in what they offer. In terms of beauty, you can find many 8's in the FKK's, some 9's and a few 10's. Is it enough for you?

Kiev is a better P4P destination than overpriced Moscow and St Petersburg in Russia and no visa requirement to visit Ukraine. But for regular tourism reasons I would like to visit Russia some day.

Language barrier? Well you know what you need to do. Start learning To read and speak Russian. Use the pimsleur. Com audio course. Even a monkey could learn from that course. It's great. Until you can speak, rely on Google Translate and the like to help communication.

[Vitrea]

I tried many times to get Rio girls to hook up with me during the daytime before their club work hours, not necessarily to feed them,

Are you talking about freebies, as in a normal date with a girl who you would like to wine and dine for the pleasure of her company? Are you kidding? There are girls all over the place that would enjoy being wined and dined. Not only in nightclubs and discos. Just roam the streets and shopping malls and start up with whomever you are attracted to. Use any of your lines that you usually use when starting up with a girl. Even simply asking them for help about something in the shop is enough to start a conversation. And it will not be long before you will have succeeded in having a conversation turn into an invitation to them to buy them a drink or a lunch or something. They love it when a seemingly wealthy man wants to spend money on them. Try to take out girls who seem like they are nice human beings.

But watch out for the serial daters and big users. They're all over the place too. Learn how to look at a menu in Russian. ALWAYS do the ordering yourself of the food and drink that they will be eating. DO NOT let them do it. Ask them what they want and after you have heard them, you interact with the waiter and keep control of the process. The wait staff should never be permitted to get the idea that you will pay for anything that you have not yourself ordered. This is sage advice that I have read on this forum and it makes sense to me. And you disregard it, it is at your peril, and you should not be upset if you receive a very large bill that you didn't intend to have.

My posts have not focussed on freebie dating because of the short nature of my visits to Kiev. .

You have only asked about having dinners with girls so I'm not sure if you're interested in p4p. But if you are, mamba. Ru also has a fair number of girls on it, in Kiev at least, who explicitly say in their profiles "I am looking for a sponsor" or even more explicitly,"I offer sex for money". If you respond to those profiles, you can find girls who will agree to get into your bed immediately for sex for money, without going through the whole dating thing until you can get them up to your apartment. But you can also have dinner with them, as a way of getting to know them. Those girls looking for "sponsors" are in fact looking for a benefactor / boyfriend and long term sponsorship, even though they will also enter into a more transient sponshorship of only a night, or even 1 or 2 hours.

Good luck with your trip to Kiev.

LJOnce again, thank you for detailed reply. Just to clarify, I am not looking for freebies. I don't mind paying. Actually, I prefer paying and take the drama out of it. I do get bored with one track mind on sex. I like the idea of dinner drinks and dancing. Web site contacts make me uncomfortable. Do these chicks on websites expect you to send photos and phone numbers etc? I don't look like a serial killer but I am not Brad Pitt either.

Sounds like shopping malls are it but I am usually not good with picking up non-pro girls half my age. You guessed right. 40 yrs.

What time does Rio open?

[Vitrea]

BTW, One of you said, "do not go during Euro 2012". I know it is going to be crazy in the city but you guys think it is negatively effect mongering that much? That might be the week I may be able to make it. Just working out that way. You think I should drop Kiev and go somewhere else? Thanks

[Astrocob]

Hi,

I come to Kiev at the end of March.

I have to chose a good hotel for me. Do you think Riviera or Dininpro?

[Goodbye Lenin]

BTW, One of you said, "do not go during Euro 2012". I know it is going to be crazy in the city but you guys think it is negatively effect mongering that much? That might be the week I may be able to make it. Just working out that way. You think I should drop Kiev and go somewhere else? ThanksWhen there was a less important event in Kiev like the Eurovision song contest in 2005 it was an earth quake : prices rised up and it took months and months to go back to normal situation. So I guess this time it might be just worse, as Euro 2012 will last for 1 month and not only for a few days and many more people are expected to visit Ukraine.

[Nille Copenhagen]

When there was a less important event in Kiev like the Eurovision song contest in 2005 it was an earth quake : prices rised up and it took months and months to go back to normal situation. So I guess this time it might be just worse, as Euro 2012 will last for 1 month and not only for a few days and many more people are expected to visit Ukraine.Well with a big event like Eurocup, there should be plenty opportunities of free pussies. So who know the prices might be stable.

I'm considering going there for the Eurocup. Another options for me is watching the games with my favorites in the FKKs.

[LilJoey]

Once again, thank you for detailed reply. Just to clarify, I am not looking for freebies. I don't mind paying. Actually, I prefer paying and take the drama out of it. I do get bored with one track mind on sex. I like the idea of dinner drinks and dancing. Web site contacts make me uncomfortable. Do these chicks on websites expect you to send photos and phone numbers etc? I don't look like a serial killer but I am not Brad Pitt either.

Sounds like shopping malls are it but I am usually not good with picking up non-pro girls half my age. You guessed right. 40 yrs.

What time does Rio open?Rio opens 8:00 PM.

None of us looks like Brad Pitt. Your appearance will not be less of an issue in a shopping mall than in a website acquaintance. To the degree the girls are interested in your financial sponsorship, they will be forgiving on your appearance.

The EE woman does not necessarily expect an Adonis, and also values other qualities in a man, things that can bring her security and an enjoyable companionship, including wealth, power, intelligence, generosity, confidence, charm, wit, humor etc. So if you have these things, or can create and sustain at least the appearance of having these things, you will be desireable to these girls. I have heard from beautiful girls more than once in reference to my own shortcomings, responses like,"oh that's ok. You're a man," and we have wonderful p4p sex_lol. In p4p your appearance plays much less of a role. That's not to say that if someone really looks like a troll, he might not encounter difficulty in getting every girl he wishes even for p4p. But men of average looks, who are presentable and cultured, should have no problem, especially in p4p situations.

Therefore, you should overcome your issue with website acquaintances, and proceed to solicit dates from girls looking for a sponsor. The very fact that a sponsorship is under consideration will make your appearance much less of an issue. Don't be afraid of giving a picture. Even in regular dating, I prefer to get past the trading pictures stage, as I'm not interested in even meeting someone who doesn't want to date the guy in my picture. If you get the date after she knows what you look like, you're in. Just don't put your foot in your mouth by saying dumb stuff and the p4p aspect will sail her smoothly into your bed.

So I would recommend for you a combined approach. Start developing contacts and setting up dates for at least two months before your trip on websites like mamba. Ru. You can choose to date normal girls, or girls looking for a sponsorship (which means p4p). Having coffee, lunch or dinner with these girls is an expected part of dating such girls. So if that's what you like to do, then have at it. When you arrive in Kiev you can also begin to look to meet girls in streets and shopping malls and clubs, but for obvious reasons (like not getting slapped in the face for propositioning a girl who is not a prostitute) you must treat this as freebies dating, unless and until the girl herself raises the subject of money for her company. Of course, as in normal freebie dating, you can choose to create situations which are conducive to a sexual advance, like inviting the girl to your apartment on some pretext and trying to seduce her, making your usual way into her pants, or at least trying to do so. She can then do one of three things. She can say no, not yet. And you will need to date some more until she is ready to give it up, or until your patience runs out. She can let you have your way with her. Or she can raise the issue of money.

Go to Rio when you don't want to chase a girl so much, and just want to meet a beautiful girl to have sex with for $300/3 hours or $400 for the night. You can take her anywhere you want that is open during the nightime hours, including restaurants, sushi bars, disco nightclubs etc. But I warn you in advance that it would be adviseable to first bring them back to your apartment and have sex with them first, before going out to eat or to nightclub dancing, as later it may not happen due to tiredness, drunkness, or no more time left on the meter, or other reasons. My experience has been that due to the fatigue factor, these girls are not going to be interested in going out dancing after having sex, and will more likely want to get into bed and sleep, or worse, go home. However, if you can succeed in getting out of the Rio club with a girl in the early part of the evening just after opening, like by 9:00 or 10:00 PM, and you have booked the girl with a firm agreement to stay the whole night until at least 5:00 AM, maybe there is time to go home, have sex, and then also take them out. They will probably not be interested in dancing at a nightclub, because they dance all the time and are tired, but if you invite them to go out to eat somewhere nice, then they will probably want to go out. I find they are usually very hungry, as they have not eaten dinner before starting work at the club. Most often I have found they want to stop at a supermarket to buy some food to take back to my apartment to eat first before taking showers and getting to the sex. So forestall that by saying you will take them out to dine after getting acquainted at your apartment. You should have some drinks and chocolates at your apartment, so you can offer girls who come there something.

[Kotik01]

Hi community,

Somebody in Kiev in March to go for some mongering together and chilling maybe?

Was in Kiev around 30 times the last 5 years.

Finished relation to my last ukr girlfriend actually and want not to hang out with my local friends and my well-known network all the time. Need some kind of "rest" and fresh wind in my sails.

New contacts with like-minded people.

Nice regards.

[Ronaldinjo]

Well I certainly agree about Brazil being a great destination. I'm dying to go to Rio and Sao Paulon but it's a very long flight and a destination I'd rather go with buddies, and my friends can't make decisions, so that trip hasn't happened yet. I've gone solo to European destinations. Prague is just as easy for me to get to as any European destination. I did mention Prague as a destination that could be considered for a batchelor's party. Czech girls are beautiful and awesome looking. But I voiced my reservations about Prague in that the sex clubs and strip clubs were not offering GFE service (uncovered BJ) for the most part, and I was only able to get GFE sex with very beautiful girls through the high end internet escort agencies for Prague. Those prices are not too far off from what the prices are at Rio strip club in Kiev. So maybe I should consider Prague for a revisit at some point. But in the last couple of years, I have been very happy with Kiev and with the FKK's.

Are Ukrainian girls prettier than Czech girls? I don't know if I would go so far as to say that. There are gorgeous 8's. 9's and 10's in both countries, but I've definitely had more sex fun in Kiev than I've had in Prague. Great sex has been more accessible in Kiev.

If you have not gone to FKK's yet, you have cheated yourself out of one of the best sexual adventures that exists. Do yourself a favor and get over to Frankfurt Germany and visit FKK Oase and FKK Palace. There are others in the area which you can investigate if your penis still wants more, but these two are the best comparatively. You have really cheap flights on Ryan Air from Porto or Faro airports in Portugal to the Frankfurt Hahn airport, and from Hahn there is a bus into Frankfurt. After experiencing the FKK's, you will realize what a joke clubs like K-5 and Cabaret in Prague are by comparison in what they offer. In terms of beauty, you can find many 8's in the FKK's, some 9's and a few 10's. Is it enough for you?

Kiev is a better P4P destination than overpriced Moscow and St Petersburg in Russia and no visa requirement to visit Ukraine. But for regular tourism reasons I would like to visit Russia some day.

Language barrier? Well you know what you need to do. Start learning To read and speak Russian. Use the pimsleur. Com audio course. Even a monkey could learn from that course. It's great. Until you can speak, rely on Google Translate and the like to help communication.Yes Liljoey, brazil indeed is great destination, and from what I have heard, pros there are really stunners. In comparison to eastern europe, where 10/10 pros are big rarity, in brazil it is quite common, and chicks there are less money oriented, if they really like you, compared to europe girls. But its all about rumors, you need to go and see. But be carefull buddy, don't go alone, brazil can be dangerouse place.

As for chzechs, there are a lot of beauties in prague, but the persentage of beautifull faces is more common in Kiev, but maybe I need one more visit to clarify this. But anyway, Czech chicks are hot. Liljoey, you say that there is possibility for hot privat girls in internet escort agencies. Is it as relible as mamba or something else?

Its pity I didn't visit Rio kind places in moscow, but privat houses (with very nice girls) Nile Copenhages says there are a lot of hot chicks over there (and moscow is huge huge city) in places similar to Rio, and you can bang them in the place. Would like to know how it is in comparison to Rio in Kiev. All in all there is huge number of beautiful chicks in moscow and especially in st. Peter, although girls in Kiev have little bit prettier faces on my mind. But Russian matrioshkas are very nice either, especially in peter, very kind hearted girls. Big Russian heart.

[Astrocob]

Hi,

I come to Kiev at the end of March.

I have to chose a good hotel for me. Do you think Riviera or Dininpro?Can you help me please?

[Vitrea]

Well with a big event like Eurocup, there should be plenty opportunities of free pussies. So who know the prices might be stable.

I'm considering going there for the Eurocup. Another options for me is watching the games with my favorites in the FKKs.That may not be a bad idea. I am going to be in the FKK land the week before the start of Euro cup so I thought I might spend the second week in Ukraine. Two weeks in FKK land can't be too bad either.

[Vitrea]

Rio opens 8:00 PM.

None of us looks like Brad Pitt. Your appearance will not be less of an issue in a shopping mall than in a website acquaintance. To the degree the girls are interested in your financial sponsorship, they will be forgiving on your appearance.

The EE woman does not necessarily expect an Adonis, .....

So I would recommend for you a combined approach. Start developing contacts and setting up dates for at least two months before your trip on websites like mamba. Ru. You can choose to date normal girls, or girls looking for a sponsorship (which means p4p). Having coffee, lunch or dinner with these girls is an expected part of dating such girls. ....................Your MO and thought process is same as mine. I did exactly what you described two weeks ago in the Caribbean just never in WE or EE. Thank you for the tips.

So, sponsorship means P4P? That's it? No exit visas, student loan payment etc? .

[LilJoey]

Your MO and thought process is same as mine. I did exactly what you described two weeks ago in the Caribbean just never in WE or EE. Thank you for the tips.

So, sponsorship means P4P? That's it? No exit visas, student loan payment etc? .Sponsorship can mean all the above. Depends on the girl. Depends on you.

You should also be aware that a lot of the mamba ads are not actually individual girls, but rather agencies or girl apartments representing multiple girls where you're corresponding with or calling a phone person / manager. The response you get from those will most likely be an hourly rate. But it doesn't mean the girl isn't interested in something more.

They will all start out as a short term sponsorship of an hour or a night, so you can see if you are interested. The relationship can evolve from there, depending on your interest level and how often you want to see her again, if at all. No one is asking you to pay student loans in advance.

[LilJoey]

Liljoey, you say that there is possibility for hot privat girls in internet escort agencies. Is it as relible as mamba or something else?

Its pity I didn't visit Rio kind places in moscow, but privat houses (with very nice girls) Nile Copenhages says there are a lot of hot chicks over there (and moscow is huge huge city) in places similar to Rio, and you can bang them in the place. Would like to know how it is in comparison to Rio in Kiev.I'm not quite sure exactly what you're asking. The only reference to a "privat" I remember making was referring to girl apartments in Prague. I didn't mention it, but these apartments in Prague are well advertised on the internet. You can easily find them on a sex map of Prague establishments. See maps. Sex. CZ

In Kiev, there are also apartments with girls working in them. In Kiev it is less simple to find them. I went on a tour of a few of them in downtown Kiev with a taxi driver who was knowledgable about where they are located. They are not advertised on the internet as "privats" as such. But probably some of the internet agencies are operating out of an apartment where you can also go for incall.

Rio is a strip club. Not an apartment, brothel or nightclub. The strippers can be invited out by you with the understanding you wish to take them home for sex. The strippers at Rio look very good. I don't know what level of beauty the girls you might find in a girl apartment in Kiev might be. I don't think it will be as high a level as the young girls hired to dance as strippers at Rio strip club.

What is going on in moscow, I don't know.

[JazzBird]

Last month I went to Kiev first time. Only with advice of Liljoey. And I could try everything about Kiev. Mamba, Arena, D-Lux, taxi drivers etc. But I saw Liljoey's advices are exactly right. Especially for Rio. That is it. Rio and Rio. Thank you Liljoey. You are my man.

[LilJoey]

Last month I went to Kiev first time. Only with advice of Liljoey. And I could try everything about Kiev. Mamba, Arena, D-Lux, taxi drivers etc. But I saw Liljoey's advices are exactly right. Especially for Rio. That is it. Rio and Rio. Thank you Liljoey. You are my man.I am happy that you had a good time and my posts were helpful to you. But I want to clarify that my viewpoint is not just "go to Rio" and that's it. The other options in Kiev have their time and place also.

1) When a guy has only one or two nights in Kiev, or even three nights in Kiev, AND he has a budget of $400 to $500 per night for p4p, then I think Rio is the best option FOR THE NIGHTS. (Also, if reports are true that some of the very hot nightclub girls are agreeing to THREE hours for their $300 or even $400 fee, then by virtue of it being 3 hours instead of the 2 hours they used to limit it to, those prices have become competitive with Rio and one can try the Buddha Bar or other nightclubs also and see if one can get similar prices and also spot the WG's in efficient time.) However, I still think that mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com and maybe gia-escort. Com and a bunch of other fake pic internet escort agencies advertising prices of 500 to 800 UAH / hr are good options for DAYTIME mongering, as is roaming the streets and shopping malls to try to pick up girls, or even going on a tour of some girl apartments with a knowledgable taxi driver. These other options are good for the daytime while Rio is closed, unless your body needs sleep to be able to function well at night. For example, in my last 2 night visit to Kiev, I arrived on Friday exhausted from travel having not slept Thursday night. I persevered to hit Rio Friday night and take out a girl, but after that I ended up sleeping all day Saturday to recharge. Then I went to Rio Saturday night and had the energy for a duo. BUT,

2) Even on a short visit to Kiev, if a guy does not want to spend $400 a night on p4p, for various reasons, either he does not have the budget to do that every night, or he doesn't feel confident in his mongering abilities to be able to select a good GFE girl from Rio, or doesn't feel comfortable betting on only one girl for the good outcome of a three hour session, and would rather only bet on a girl for one hour so that if she's not good he minimized his losses to a 1 hour fee, or he likes pursuing freebies instead of p4p, or other reasons, then it's perfectly reasonable to pursue all the other options for lower cost pussy mentioned above that don't cost as much as Rio. However, in pursuing the other options he will need to be prepared to invest much more effort and time in finding a hot girl and getting her into his bed. Think of the extra cost at Rio as a "convenience" cost or an "efficiency" cost, which one can forgo and try to get good results the cheaper way using the websites etc with the understanding that the results of the search for cheaper p4p are not guaranteed and it might end up on a given night being a choice of no sex, or sex with a more average looking girl.

3) But if one has a good amount of time in Kiev of more than just a few days, there is no reason one shouldn't mix it up and go to Rio some nights and also pursue the other avenues to keep it interesting and spread out the costs, including websites, nightclubs and shopping malls. This is what I've tried to do for myself. I felt that as long as I had achieved some spectacular results with Rio girls on a few of the nights I was in Kiev, it was worthwhile going to nightclubs on other nights and doing the website thing during the daytimes. I had experimented with vodkaescort. Com (now out of business) with good results. I had gotten some good girls out of top-modals. Com. And I still had some contacts from the River Palace days that ended in 2010. My forays to the nightclubs did not produce any lower cost pussy, however. But it was all interesting.

So although on a short visit, I would agree to Rio and Rio, on a longer visit, or in the event of a smaller p4p budget, I would recommend mixing it up a bit, if only for the sake of variety and interest.

LJ

[Naykan]

Hi everybody,

Which is the best shopping mall in Kiev during day time to meet beautiful girls?

Thanks in advance.

[Ronaldinjo]

Last month I went to Kiev first time. Only with advice of Liljoey. And I could try everything about Kiev. Mamba, Arena, D-Lux, taxi drivers etc. But I saw Liljoey's advices are exactly right. Especially for Rio. That is it. Rio and Rio. Thank you Liljoey. You are my man.Liljoey is our man in Kiev, his advices are exactly right. Thank you once more.

Is there any problem to rent appartment in kresatik street (from girls point of view)? As I read, some girls (from Rio and other clubs) are afraid to step on kresatik street as they afraid from police and such kind of stuff, or it is considers only to hotels? Liljoey, can you reccomend any good appatment, in any street in Kiev centre, where you enjoyed the most (by kievapts com)? To name the street and appartment if you can remember. Last time took appartment for a week and it was noisy, and water didt work well, eventhough they fixed it later, but it was pretty annoying. Thank you.

By the way Liljoey, why don't you come to Kiev at least for a fool week, to prolong your joy? What do you think about Odessa in summer? I have heard it is hottest spot in ukrain in summer with full of gorgeous girls around.

[Sponsor74]

Hi everybody,

Which is the best shopping mall in Kiev during day time to meet beautiful girls?

Thanks in advance.I recomend Karavan but is not in center and you have to go with the Metro to station Obolon and then take the small buses or a taxi. If someone know a better shopping mall please let us know. I also like the girls in these shopping malls

[Guntherus]

This is the center the girls recommend, one girl took me there and helped me do some shopping for my wardrope. Seems to be popular. Can't remember the number or the name of small bus we took, but it was not complicated to get there, when she was the guide.


I recomend Karavan but is not in center and you have to go with the Metro to station Obolon and then take the small buses or a taxi. If someone know a better shopping mall please let us know. I also like the girls in these shopping malls

[LilJoey]

Liljoey is our man in Kiev, his advices are exactly right. Thank you once more.

Is there any problem to rent appartment in kresatik street (from girls point of view)? As I read, some girls (from Rio and other clubs) are afraid to step on kresatik street as they afraid from police and such kind of stuff, or it is considers only to hotels? Liljoey, can you reccomend any good appatment, in any street in Kiev centre, where you enjoyed the most (by kievapts com)? To name the street and appartment if you can remember. Last time took appartment for a week and it was noisy, and water didt work well, eventhough they fixed it later, but it was pretty annoying. Thank you.

By the way Liljoey, why don't you come to Kiev at least for a fool week, to prolong your joy? What do you think about Odessa in summer? I have heard it is hottest spot in ukrain in summer with full of gorgeous girls around.

Unfortunately, your first question is a good question. I had read a similar report about a monger being refused a take home date by one of the Rio girls who said that she didn't want to go to an apartment in the area near the Maidan where his apartment was located because she was afraid of being stopped by police again. After reading that, I decided it would be wise to make some inquiries before renting an apartment in the Maidan area again. I had rented several apartments on the streets just off the Maidan square and on Kreshatyk with no incidents. But I decided to check as best I could if this was a common occurrence I had just avoided by sheer luck. So I subsequently asked managers at Rio and some Rio girls that I knew if they had ever heard of any incidents about police bothering any of the girls on a date near apartments near the Maidan. All said I never heard about any incidents. So I could not verify any other incidents other than the one reported by one monger on this thread. Until it happened to me.

Basically, I had taken Ada and a friend of hers (she said it was her cousin) out as a duo. In this instance my apartment was literally a few steps off the actual Maidan square. As we alighted from the taxi and walked down the street a bit, since he let us off not directly in front of my door, and I was punching in my door code for the entrance door to the building from the street, we were approached by two uniformed police officers. They asked for identification. My practice in Kiev is to have my actual passport in my pocket, due to the numerous reports of Ukrainian police stopping tourists and asking for ID and if the passport is not in possession they create a hassle from which it is usually necessary to extricate oneself by means of an appropriate bribe. So I fished my passport out of my pocket and handed it to them. They looked at it and returned it. Then they asked me if I knew the girls. I said I knew one, and the other was her friend. They asked me her name, I told them Ada's name. I actually know Ada's real first name. They they began to hassle the other girl, and she defended saying she didn't need her ID, but I could tell she was unnerved. They began to ask me again if I really knew these girls. I told them yes I know one of the girls for over a year and we get together when I visit Kiev, and the other girl is her friend. They said they have to protect tourists from bad girls doing things like robberies. I said there was no danger of that and I trusted these girls totally. Then we stepped all together into the hallway inside the door of the building. The policeman started to continue to question the girl without ID and hassle her and argue with her. I tapped him on the shoulder and I thanked the officer for his concern and efforts to protect me, and asked him if perhaps I could compensate him a little for being out in the cold all night doing his job protecting me and buy him a hot coffee, and I handed him a 100 UAH note for him, and another 100 UAH for the silent younger officer who was his partner who probably didn't speak English well. He smiled and said that they are acting only to my benefit to protect me and they let the girls alone and left the building. I brought the girls upstairs hoping the episode hadn't rattled their nerves too much to have a good session. Fortunately, fucking the brains out of Ada's friend caused her to forget all her troubles and get more into the spirit of things. I've never had a problem with police stopping me subsequent to this episode.

What did I learn from this episode? (1) that carrying my passport on me was the correct thing to do. (2) that it is adviseable to make sure the girl you want to bring to your apartment from Rio, or from any club, has ID on her, and is definitely not a minor, because a police stop is a possibility. (3) that you know the girl's name and have a little bit of a story as to how you know her, as it seems the police were concerned with girls who were strangers to you picking you up with a nefarious intent such as robbery, etc. (4) That you be prepared with a bit of cash for bribes, as needed_LOL. (5) that the police who were on foot patroling the Maidan area within eyeshot of your apartment are the concern, and if your apartment is not in a location where foot patrolman are around, the problem is less likely.

As far as your 2nd question for me to recommend a specific apartment, I would respond that I have had many different apartments that I have enjoyed from kievapts. Com and there is no one "good" apartment. Instead I recommend you communicating your desires with more specificity to the apartment rental agency. The people who I dealt with at kievapts. Com were able to satisfy my specific requests for an upscale, fresh new looking apartment every time. In fact during the demonstrations on lower Kreshatyk they warned me off from renting apartments on Kreshatyk that I had previously rented, because a tenant had told them about the noise problem. If you tell them you want an apartment that is not noisy, and has working water, they will endeavor to point you to the proper choices. Obviously if you look for cheap apartments at low end agencies the less lilkely you are to get personal service.

I will have the opportunity for a longer more relaxed stay in Kiev for my next trip and will be in Kiev from March 30 to April 3. And yes Odessa during summertime is supposed to be great.

[Uzinuzin]

When there was a less important event in Kiev like the Eurovision song contest in 2005 it was an earth quake : prices rised up and it took months and months to go back to normal situation. So I guess this time it might be just worse, as Euro 2012 will last for 1 month and not only for a few days and many more people are expected to visit Ukraine.This is quite alarming for me, specially the part about prices taking a long time to come down! I was thinking of going to Odessa for July for 2 or 3 weeks after everyone has gone! Although I guess July is high season in Odessa anyway, but I like the sea and the beach, so I was looking in that area. It's not easy to predict the effect of Euro 12, but I'm with you in that the prices (of everything) will be heading north, by how much!

[Goodbye Lenin]

When there was a less important event in Kiev like the Eurovision song contest in 2005 it was an earth quake : prices rised up and it took months and months to go back to normal situation. So I guess this time it might be just worse, as Euro 2012 will last for 1 month and not only for a few days and many more people are expected to visit Ukraine.
This is quite alarming for me, specially the part about prices taking a long time to come down! I was thinking of going to Odessa for July for 2 or 3 weeks after everyone has gone! Although I guess July is high season in Odessa anyway, but I like the sea and the beach, so I was looking in that area. It's not easy to predict the effect of Euro 12, but I'm with you in that the prices (of everything) will be heading north, by how much!So far most of the attention here was paid to girls prices. But the accommodation capacity in Ukraine is not as large as such an important event might require, so I heard rumours of families that are planning to move out to rent the flat where they live for 3-4 times the average monthly rent to rental agencies that will accommodate there the Eurocup fans for outrageous daily rates.

[Felix Nordic]

Just read a few posts here. I think Liljoes posts are very good. I like the way you think in many aspects.

However I do have a bit of a hard time to accept $ 400. 500 for a night. Something is too high about the prices in Kiev. Perhaps some people are ready to pay that.

With the risk of sounding like a bitter looser without cash I am pretty sure you can find hot girls on internet sites for a better deal. Perhaps I am wrong? I am not so used to the Kiev scene though. Been in Ukraine 3 times only and planning to come in early April to Donetsk.

I am hunting on mamba and there are plenty girls. Some ok, and some are not. However prices are much less. If this indeed is the market I am very surprised hunters go to Kiev for P4P. I understand though, if hunters go for amatuers after having invested some time to find girls.

I agree that to see the "meat" dance and talk to them helps, however it is still too much money.

As have been written, with these "market" prices I would perfer to go to a FKK club in Germany. Probably, or most likely would be more sex for the dollars.

Cheers and thanks.

/Felix

[LilJoey]

Just read a few posts here. I think Liljoes posts are very good. I like the way you think in many aspects.

However I do have a bit of a hard time to accept $ 400. 500 for a night. Something is too high about the prices in Kiev. Perhaps some people are ready to pay that.

With the risk of sounding like a bitter looser without cash I am pretty sure you can find hot girls on internet sites for a better deal. Perhaps I am wrong? I am not so used to the Kiev scene though. Been in Ukraine 3 times only and planning to come in early April to Donetsk.

I am hunting on mamba and there are plenty girls. Some ok, and some are not. However prices are much less. If this indeed is the market I am very surprised hunters go to Kiev for P4P. I understand though, if hunters go for amatuers after having invested some time to find girls.

I agree that to see the "meat" dance and talk to them helps, however it is still too much money.

As have been written, with these "market" prices I would perfer to go to a FKK club in Germany. Probably, or most likely would be more sex for the dollars.

Cheers and thanks.

/FelixFelix, you are not the only one that does not want to spend $400 on p4p for a night. There are many others that feel the same way. It just means that you will have to put a little more effort into finding a very hot girl on mamba or some other website who has a lower price. In Kiev there are many beautiful girls who can be had for $75 / hour or $100 / hour. The only problem is they are not lined up in front of you to choose from and the websites don't use the true pictures. You have to go find the girls. BUT THEY ARE THERE. That is the key point I think you may have missed. In fact, freebies, where you don't pay for the sex at all, are possible too, as many have testified on this thread. Of course, in an FKK club it is very easy, and if that is what you want then you should stay with the FKK's.

But don't fool yourself. It costs plenty in the FKK's too. I have previously presented the cost analysis to demonstrate that in Kiev p4p is definitely available much cheaper than at the FKK's. Even at the Kiev strip club Rio where a guy will go to find beautiful WG's easily without much effort, the $300 cost for a three hour date, is $200 less than what one pays in the FKK's for three hours of sex which is 375 Euro ($500). And as stated, in Kiev there are many girls available at much lower rates in the $75 / hour and $100 / hour range through using websites, or meeting them on the streets, or in girl apartments. So in Kiev p4p is definitely much cheaper than in the FKK's, and in Kiev it is possible to be with girls that are more beautiful than at the FKK's. So this is why even guys who don't want to spend $400 or $500 a night on p4p, also come to Kiev to monger.

I don't know too many guys that don't fuck at least three times in an FKK after paying a 75 Euro entrance fee. The best one can do to reduce the costs at an FKK is to try to finish each sex act in a half hour session, and do only three half hour sessions (yeah, I know, it's only half the sex fun. But this is for the sake of argument) , so that the total expense will be 150 euros plus the 75 euro entrance, for a total of 225 Euros ($300). In Kiev, for that same $300 he could have had three different girls charging $100 / hr for an hour each, or 4 different girls charging $75 / hr for an hour each. So Kiev has better prices. And more beautiful girls. But to get to them you have to put in a little effort. If you don't want to put in effort, then you can go to Rio strip club and take from there and spend less than one would spend for equivalent time in an FKK.

[Sponsor74]

Felix, you are not the only one that does not want to spend $400 on p4p for a night. There are many others that feel the same way. It just means that you will have to put a little more effort into finding a very hot girl on mamba or some other website who has a lower price. In Kiev there are many beautiful girls who can be had for $75 / hour or $100 / hour. The only problem is they are not lined up in front of you to choose from and the websites don't use the true pictures. You have to go find the girls. BUT THEY ARE THERE. That is the key point I think you may have missed. In fact, freebies, where you don't pay for the sex at all, are possible too, as many have testified on this thread. Of course, in an FKK club it is very easy, and if that is what you want then you should stay with the FKK's.

But don't fool yourself. It costs plenty in the FKK's too. I have previously presented the cost analysis to demonstrate that in Kiev p4p is definitely available much cheaper than at the FKK's. Even at the Kiev strip club Rio where a guy will go to find beautiful WG's easily without much effort, the $300 cost for a three hour date, is $200 less than what one pays in the FKK's for three hours of sex which is 375 Euro ($500). And as stated, in Kiev there are many girls available at much lower rates in the $75 / hour and $100 / hour range through using websites, or meeting them on the streets, or in girl apartments. So in Kiev p4p is definitely much cheaper than in the FKK's, and in Kiev it is possible to be with girls that are more beautiful than at the FKK's. So this is why even guys who don't want to spend $400 or $500 a night on p4p, also come to Kiev to monger.

I don't know too many guys that don't fuck at least three times in an FKK after paying a 75 Euro entrance fee. The best one can do to reduce the costs at an FKK is to try to finish each sex act in a half hour session, and do only three half hour sessions (yeah, I know, it's only half the sex fun. But this is for the sake of argument) , so that the total expense will be 150 euros plus the 75 euro entrance, for a total of 225 Euros ($300). In Kiev, for that same $300 he could have had three different girls charging $100 / hr for an hour each, or 4 different girls charging $75 / hr for an hour each. So Kiev has better prices. And more beautiful girls. But to get to them you have to put in a little effort. If you don't want to put in effort, then you can go to Rio strip club and take from there and spend less than one would spend for equivalent time in an FKK.Der Liljoel, I share this opinion too your contributions to this Forum and great. I also agree my budget USD 100 is what I use to pay for 2 and in some cases 3 hours or USD 300 for 1 night. Mamba is one option for me but, as you said HARD work because not all girls or photos real and most of them from agencies or girls working for a man with good English skills for the communication and coordination for the meeting. Where I find some freebies? In the main street or near to Independence Sq or some shopping malls. But in my last trips is not easy to find these WG, in my opinion is seems the police are controlling (and making money) in cenetr of the city. Therefore, I wonder where are these WG now? If someone has updated information please let us know

[TheKnight]

In answer to various correspondents I make the following points as a veteran of Ukraine.

Odessa is a great place to visit, probably with a girl in tow. Pick her up in Kyiv, get a cheap flight to Odessa (very cheap) and she'll be very grateful. Almost all girls going to Odessa (or Krym) takes bus or train. I know a lot of girls who've never even been on a plane. They've holidayed in Russia, Bealrus, Poland, Czech, but always by coach, so buying them an air ticket is quite a good thing for some girls.

Odessa in July or August is no good for me. Too crowded, overpriced. KievApts also have an agency in Odessa. But even apts are more expensive than in Kyiv.

On 31 August Odessa almost empties as universities resume, family holidays all end, but the weather's still quite good.

P4P in Odessa is also less appealing, less choice and more expensive. Or at least it was 2-3 years ago. Since then taken girlfriends only, and no p4p.

However Odessa will not be touched by Euro.it is not a host city, but as already pointed out, many Ukrainian couples and families are renting their apartments out for crazy prices and renting places in Krym or odessa for much less for the whole of Euro.

Another factor this year for mongers. All university courses have to end in mid-May, well before start of Euro. So expect so many of the cute young girls to leave Kyiv (and Kharkov) in May and head back to the provinces to save money, and go on holiday earlier.

One more point. MILITSIYA / MAIDAN.

As my friend, the esteemed LJ writes, be cautious around Maidan late at night.

The obvious reason is there are Militsiya offices at the very bottom of Mikhailovskaya as it adjoins Maidan, and also near Red Lion cabaret through the little arch on Kreshchatyk.

I've stayed on Sofievska, Mikhailovskaya, Lyuteranska many times without a problem, just make sure your taxi can drop you right outside your door. And if you see a patrol as your taxi is nearing your apartment block ask the driver to head straight on and go around the block for an extra 10UAH!

[Prosal]

It's not easy to predict the effect of Euro 12, but I'm with you in that the prices (of everything) will be heading north, by how much!IMHO a significant number of football fans will stay in Ukraine on holidays after the final (beginning of July) , and most will go to Krimea and Odessa.

[Felix Nordic]

Felix, you are not the only one that does not want to spend $400 on p4p for a night. There are many others that feel the same way. It just means that you will have to put a little more effort into finding a very hot girl on mamba or some other website who has a lower price. In Kiev there are many beautiful girls who can be had for $75 / hour or $100 / hour. The only problem is they are not lined up in front of you to choose from and the websites don't use the true pictures. You have to go find the girls. BUT THEY ARE THERE. That is the key point I think you may have missed. In fact, freebies, where you don't pay for the sex at all, are possible too, as many have testified on this thread. Of course, in an FKK club it is very easy, and if that is what you want then you should stay with the FKK's.

But don't fool yourself. It costs plenty in the FKK's too. I have previously presented the cost analysis to demonstrate that in Kiev p4p is definitely available much cheaper than at the FKK's. Even at the Kiev strip club Rio where a guy will go to find beautiful WG's easily without much effort, the $300 cost for a three hour date, is $200 less than what one pays in the FKK's for three hours of sex which is 375 Euro ($500). And as stated, in Kiev there are many girls available at much lower rates in the $75 / hour and $100 / hour range through using websites, or meeting them on the streets, or in girl apartments. So in Kiev p4p is definitely much cheaper than in the FKK's, and in Kiev it is possible to be with girls that are more beautiful than at the FKK's. So this is why even guys who don't want to spend $400 or $500 a night on p4p, also come to Kiev to monger.

I don't know too many guys that don't fuck at least three times in an FKK after paying a 75 Euro entrance fee. The best one can do to reduce the costs at an FKK is to try to finish each sex act in a half hour session, and do only three half hour sessions (yeah, I know, it's only half the sex fun. But this is for the sake of argument) , so that the total expense will be 150 euros plus the 75 euro entrance, for a total of 225 Euros ($300). In Kiev, for that same $300 he could have had three different girls charging $100 / hr for an hour each, or 4 different girls charging $75 / hr for an hour each. So Kiev has better prices. And more beautiful girls. But to get to them you have to put in a little effort. If you don't want to put in effort, then you can go to Rio strip club and take from there and spend less than one would spend for equivalent time in an FKK.First of all, and again, thanks for your postings here and I think you contribute a lot. I do agree with a lot that you write. .

However the maths needs to be redone and the conditions they are based upon. By this I do not mean to go into open argumentation with you. Thats not the point. I just want to clarify that for P4P German FKK's are hard to beat price wise, even if you are in EE pussy land. Provided that is why you choose to go to EE, like Ukraine and Kiev. If you go to Ukraine on business it is another ball game. I do not take the cost of air tickets and living costs in to consideration as going to Germany and staying there might well correspond to the costs of getting to Kiev and staying there. (though it has to said that flights are quite cheap to Germany for many destinations in Europe. Cheaper than Ukraine I pressume or at least from scandinavia where I live)

In Germany you have a wide range of FKK's and normally the extrance fee is E 60. 75 depending on where you go. Lets take a good class FFK around NWR or Frankfurt as an example. (I do not compare with FKK palace in Frankfurt because this place has gone down in quality and up in price in recent years). Yes entrance is usually E 60 or slightly above, but you get sauna and food for that (and I do enjoy a Sauna) I can't tell if there is any entrance fees for clubs like Rio or not. Probably you will pay something or / and spend money on drinks. In a strip club like Rio you will get to see the girls and in a normal FKK you will also see the menu. Entrance and shagging 3 girls in a standard FKK will be around E 200 to 225 as you wrote. What do you get in a strip club like Rio? Ok, you can get 3 girls for USD 300 in total for three single sessions lasting an hour each pop. With that written you need to take them to your place and the hustle that brings, taxis etc and wasting time. In an FKK club it is different. Menu is at place and you have sex at site and do not have to do take away girls. It is not comfortable at all IMHO to take a girl out for only an hour. Therefore it is not really comparable to value 3 x 1 single sessions at a USD 100 each with 3 x 1 single sessions in an FKK. Comparing the single sessions alone, in a German FKK you have a standard pop with BBBW for E 50 lasting 30 mins. I don't know what you get in Kiev for a USD 100 but I guess it would be the same, but for an hour (if it lasts that long you you). In a FKK it is business (sex) directly and no in-between times unless you wish. Quality wise regarding girls some FKK's have very high class (I have shagged really beautiful girls in FKK's. Like Romanian Daniella in FKK Palace, a clear 9 on my scale and I am picky) and in fact a lot of girls come from EE and even Ukraine. From what I have read some stripper girls in Kiev are not that beautiful, even in Rio. Service is not always the best either. That might go for the FKK's in Germany as well, but again it is what you chose for dinner that you will eat. Normally taking out a "hooker" for an hour means you pratically get only 30 minutes of sex anyway. On top of that the costs and time for taking her home should be taken in to consideration. The USD 75 girls you mention, I can't tell if beautiful or not. You can easily have them in Germany too. If you pay USD 300 for 3 hours, you can have that service in many countries. There are of course other places in Germany and elsewhere where you get good value for your money. Probably the same in Kiev but still people continue to adore the tourist traps.

In the below post is my experiences during a trip to Berlin last year. If you want tons of pussy this would be hard to beat unless you go to third world and that does not mean Kiev.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2067-Links-to-Reports-of-Distinction

So in a FKK you can actually get good quality and beautiful girls without the trouble of going to Kiev. A bit of a higher entrance fee (unless you count the full costs. And in a FKK you get Sauna and some food and drinks as well) and once inside you have usually a wide range of girls and standard session is E 50 BBBJ. As it had been said, people pay these prices because it is convenient and you do not have waste time. Therefore IMHO a shag is cheaper in a FKK than a take out girl in Kiev.

So, all in all, I can not understand those who go to Kiev for P4P at strip clubs or agencies. I do not count Gia's at all because that is a true rip of place (price wise). It was good maybe 5. 6 years ago. The prices quoted in recent threads here is a rip of price (as for Kiev. In the context of Ukraine) and the only reason they can over charge like that is because stupid and desperate sexomaniacs (don't worry I am a sexomaniac myself. But with a brain)"hunters" with more money than brains continue to go there. I am surprised Gia's has not gone bust. It simply prove what I try to state.

Those who go to Ukraine for "non payed" girls is however a completely different ball game. However thats not the impression I have got reading the last 10 pages here or so. My game is the free girls, so much more fun and better sex even if it costs time.

/Felix

[Jojosun]

My home Stassi companions are away, so I find myself with some time to Poke my nose into this discussion.

To get the whole picture of Mongering costs in Kiev, perhaps we need a link like this one for mongering costs.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/.

Assuming that one only flies to Kiev 4 mongering purposes, then you have to factor things like (Flights, Accomodation, +costs in Kiev for other things including girls ).

In my case being US$& £ based and a cheap skate when it comes to flights costs, what made Kiev a reasonable cheap destination 4 me, was the Depreciation of the UAH against the £&the US$ in the last few years, and Wizzair flights to Kiev.

I wouldn't have gone if my Bible Bloomberg. Com showed 4Uah to the US$ (Like it was before) or paying $$$$to get my Ass on a flight to Kiev, even if the girls in Kiev were stunners.

All things costs wise being equal between Kiev & Germany, IMHO the Quality of girls, looks, prospects of freebies, GFE are much higher in Kiev than in Germany.

I am sure Felix agrees on this, there are a lot & lot of stunners in Scandinavian countries, but its illegal 4 P4P, except Denmark expensive, and the prospects of freebies are almost zero for the average typical monger. But they do make a great eye candy in the summer.

Costs for food, drinks, taxis are much cheaper in Kiev than in Germany.

[Felix Nordic]

My home Stassi companions are away, so I find myself with some time to Poke my nose into this discussion.

To get the whole picture of Mongering costs in Kiev, perhaps we need a link like this one for mongering costs.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/.

Assuming that one only flies to Kiev 4 mongering purposes, then you have to factor things like (Flights, Accomodation, +costs in Kiev for other things including girls ).

In my case being US$& £ based and a cheap skate when it comes to flights costs, what made Kiev a reasonable cheap destination 4 me, was the Depreciation of the UAH against the £&the US$ in the last few years, and Wizzair flights to Kiev.

I wouldn't have gone if my Bible Bloomberg. Com showed 4Uah to the US$ (Like it was before) or paying $$$$to get my Ass on a flight to Kiev, even if the girls in Kiev were stunners.

All things costs wise being equal between Kiev & Germany, IMHO the Quality of girls, looks, prospects of freebies, GFE are much higher in Kiev than in Germany.

I am sure Felix agrees on this, there are a lot & lot of stunners in Scandinavian countries, but its illegal 4 P4P, except Denmark expensive, and the prospects of freebies are almost zero for the average typical monger. But they do make a great eye candy in the summer.

Costs for food, drinks, taxis are much cheaper in Kiev than in Germany.JoJo, its good that you add your points. This is what makes it an interesting discussion. There are many aspects.

I just can't understand why people go to Kiev only for P4P, and I like to hear their versions. I also would like to give a bit of a wake up for some readers that not to start to think USD 300 for 3 hours is totally acceptable in Kiev. Then next year it will be 400 and so on. Thats not a desired situation for any of us. The increased prices at Gia's for the last 5 to 6 years would make sharp uphill graph. Make it 10 years and it would be very sharp.

Cheap flights has ruined many places and increased other costs such as payed girls etc. Thats one reason for sure. Another is that many men want instant results and is ready to pay for that. Its a normal market situation. If they couldn't sell because people would think it is over priced they would have to go down. Easier said than done as this tide would be really hard to stop taking all pussy hungry men from countries with good salaries that wants to live a playboy life.

I hunt the free girls and I love that sport. I do sponsored girls as well If I find something really hot and sexy. With some investigations you can find nice girls for a lot less I'm pretty sure.

Freebes in Kiev is a great bonus of course. However I really do not see that discussed much here in the Kiev thread. That is why I think the majority of men goes here for payed sex. Thats not smart cash management IMO. Well, for those wealthy enough to spend USD 300 on girls every day may not bother, but I am sure many of us can't afford that. Even if you stay a week only. It would mean a total cost of living expenses including girls at USD 400 to 500 in total every day. Thats minimum around USD 3000 for a week + air tickets. For those who like better quality of a hotel etc or more girls you will probably hit the 4000. Insane.

Been in Kiev only two times and it is not that cheap in the centre if you wish to live and eat well. If you really save you could probably do it and stay in a cheap apartment and cook your own food. You can stay quite cheap if you're smart in other countries as well, such as Germany.

As for Scandinavian girls, well there is some eye candy, but not that much. And girls are very feministic which cases a problem for a man above 40 as I am who tries to flirt a bit with girls under 30. Some likes it if done in a nice and not pushy way. My age causes me few problems in EE. Many girls at 25 likes at man at 35 to 40. Heck, I have a 22 year old GF in Grodna that loves me.

Yes, some beauties in Scandinavia but not that many. Tons more in EE IMHO. Ok, thats why I go there.

But P4P in Kiev, from the prices given here, is way too expensive.

Cheers and happy hunting.

/Felix

[Jojosun]

JoJo, its good that you add your points. This is what makes it an interesting discussion. There are many aspects.

I just can't understand why people go to Kiev only for P4P, and I like to hear their versions. I also would like to give a bit of a wake up for some readers that not to start to think USD 300 for 3 hours is totally acceptable in Kiev. Then next year it will be 400 and so on. Thats not a desired situation for any of us. The increased prices at Gia's for the last 5 to 6 years would make sharp uphill graph. Make it 10 years and it would be very sharp.

Cheap flights has ruined many places and increased other costs such as payed girls etc. Thats one reason for sure. Another is that many men want instant results and is ready to pay for that. Its a normal market situation. If they couldn't sell because people would think it is over priced they would have to go down. Easier said than done as this tide would be really hard to stop taking all pussy hungry men from countries with good salaries that wants to live a playboy life.

I hunt the free girls and I love that sport. I do sponsored girls as well If I find something really hot and sexy. With some investigations you can find nice girls for a lot less I'm pretty sure.

Freebes in Kiev is a great bonus of course. However I really do not see that discussed much here in the Kiev thread. That is why I think the majority of men goes here for payed sex. Thats not smart cash management IMO. Well, for those wealthy enough to spend USD 300 on girls every day may not bother, but I am sure many of us can't afford that. Even if you stay a week only. It would mean a total cost of living expenses including girls at USD 400 to 500 in total every day. Thats minimum around USD 3000 for a week + air tickets. For those who like better quality of a hotel etc or more girls you will probably hit the 4000. Insane.

Been in Kiev only two times and it is not that cheap in the centre if you wish to live and eat well. If you really save you could probably do it and stay in a cheap apartment and cook your own food. You can stay quite cheap if you're smart in other countries as well, such as Germany.

As for Scandinavian girls, well there is some eye candy, but not that much. And girls are very feministic which cases a problem for a man above 40 as I am who tries to flirt a bit with girls under 30. Some likes it if done in a nice and not pushy way. My age causes me few problems in EE. Many girls at 25 likes at man at 35 to 40. Heck, I have a 22 year old GF in Grodna that loves me.

Yes, some beauties in Scandinavia but not that many. Tons more in EE IMHO. Ok, thats why I go there.

But P4P in Kiev, from the prices given here, is way too expensive.

Cheers and happy hunting.

/FelixThere is an excellent & realistic report on Who can score Freebies in Kiev, in the Reports Of distinction.

The original report was posted by waryman. See if you can find it & post here please.

I couldn't find it & I am on my way to a party.

There is not much discussion of the subject, because I guess this a mainly P4P discussion.

[Vitrea]

JoJo, its good that you add your points. This is what makes it an interesting discussion. There are many aspects.

I just can't understand why people go to Kiev only for P4P, and I like to hear their versions. .

Another is that many men want instant results and is ready to pay for that. Its a normal market situation. If they couldn't sell because people would think it is over priced they would have to go down. Easier said than done as this tide would be really hard to stop taking all pussy hungry men from countries with good salaries that wants to live a playboy life.

I hunt the free girls and I love that sport. I do sponsored girls as well If I find something really hot and sexy. With some investigations you can find nice girls for a lot less I'm pretty sure.

/FelixNice discussion and well thought out comments. P4P vs freebies I think it is more than just about money. Hunting down and nailing a freebie, though way more fun and exciting, however requires a greater investment in time, need to have your A game, personality, good interpersonal skills, some language skills, communication, self confidence and most importantly, willingness to accept rejection. Not many guys can handle those. Many guys, especially married ones, rationalize a P4P as purely physical but the emotional bit that sometimes may develop in a freebie situation makes them feel guilty. For all these reasons, for some guys, it is worth the extra money especially when they have it.

I read a great quote on ISG forum a while ago: " I pay her not for the stay but for her to leave when I want her to leave"

[Nille Copenhagen]

Thats not smart cash management IMO. Well, for those wealthy enough to spend USD 300 on girls every day may not bother, but I am sure many of us can't afford that. Even if you stay a week only. It would mean a total cost of living expenses including girls at USD 400 to 500 in total every day. Thats minimum around USD 3000 for a week + air tickets. For those who like better quality of a hotel etc or more girls you will probably hit the 4000. Insane.Well if you are spending one week on a FKK-tour. 300-400€ can easily be spend per day. So I would not say that Kiev is more expensive.

FKK-land is safe environment, sometimes too boring, like a walk in the park, while Kiev and other EE countries is more adventurous.

I like the idea of the sex-insurance introduced by LJ, you can enjoy the girls from both environments in one trip.

NC

[Felix Nordic]

I just want to put things into a perspective with some comparisons. What can you get for that cash you spend during a week of nice living and P4P in Kiev, or another town?

You can get 3 full days or 72 hours with a quite well known and beautiful EE porn actress for around USD 3000. For 3 hours you can get the same porn actress at around USD 600. For the same ammount of cash you can spend the same time with a girl thats been a model in a recognized mens magazine. If you go higher in your spending costs it is possible to spend 3 days with one of the upper level porn stars that are hot in todays porn industry. Thats all organized though high class escort web pages which are expensive. Some of these high class escorts do independent escorting and I suspect for a lower price, perhaps substantially lower price. I know that famous porn actress Aletta Ocean did that in Budapest some time ago. I missed that sadly, however she is not my top favourite either. I would have done her for around USD 500 for 3 hours though, easily. As indicated by others she was not that expensive as an independent escort. I was close to contact her as I often go to Budapest. A lot of men world wide wank off to porn model Aletta Ocean and she is hired by the top companies in the porn industry, even in this year 2012. Must be for a reason. She is probably considered a top sexy girl by many men.

OK, USD 600 for 3 hours is double what girls in the strip clubs in Kiev asks and I know that. International escort web pages are very expensive but people obviously pay the price sometimes to get the most beautiful girls and in a convenient way. I suspect that they have hard times to fill the booking schedules though, especially in these poor economical times. Now, lets compare international prices for top escorts with Kiev. The prices for girls in clubs in Kiev is organized by the maffia and that is one reasons why it is so high. They closely monitor western prices as the know western men go to Kiev to relax and have fun. As the quality of EE girls such as in Ukraine is very high in general it is possible go get top girls if you are really lucky. However do you find them in Kiev's club scene? It is possible but the upper level girls has far better options unless they are fresh and naive, and ok, these are the true gems! If you find such a girl keep her! It happens but I suspect it is not the norm. The top girls go elsewhere to find gold. Perhaps you'll find them in a FKK, Dubai or at a high class escort agency.

More comparisons:

I've been in contact with independent escorts in Germany that are beautiful and would agree on around USD 300 for 2 to 3 hours and that includes anal.

I am being offered to sponsor a beautiful 24 year old girl for USD 1800 for a month as my sponsored girlfriend. She also agrees to do anal sex. In fact she even likes that. I replied to her that I will consider it. I offered her USD 400 after some bargaining for 4 hours of meeting including anal and to make a porn video with her. The cost of course went up with me making a porn video with her. However she agreed.

I mostly go to other countries than Ukraine for girl hunting and I have a very hard time to understand why people spends lots of cash to go to my desitnations for P4P only. Same as Kiev, Moscow etc.

Why do I write all this? In Ukraine I think a good monthly salary is USD 500, average being about half of that. Why pay so much or even half what it cost to shag a known porn actress or a model from a mens mag? What I want to say is that it is all over priced compared to what you get doing only P4P at the famous locations in Kiev.

Work a bit and be smarter and I am sure you find better girls for less money. Invest some time and you will be rewarded. Do not accept the standard maffia pricing of stripper girls even if it is convenient.

Cheers and happy hunting fellows.

/Felix

[Vitrea]

I just want to put things into a perspective with some comparisons. What can you get for that cash you spend during a week of nice living and P4P in Kiev, or another town?

You can get 3 full days or 72 hours with a quite well known and beautiful EE porn actress for around USD 3000. For 3 hours you can get the same porn actress at around USD 600. For the same ammount of cash you can spend the same time with a girl thats been a model in a recognized mens magazine. If you go higher in your spending costs it is possible to spend 3 days with one of the upper level porn stars that are hot in todays porn industry. Thats all organized though high class escort web pages which are expensive. Some of these high class escorts do independent escorting and I suspect for a lower price, perhaps substantially lower price. I know that famous porn actress Aletta Ocean did that in Budapest some time ago. I missed that sadly, however she is not my top favourite either. I would have done her for around USD 500 for 3 hours though, easily. As indicated by others she was not that expensive as an independent escort. I was close to contact her as I often go to Budapest. A lot of men world wide wank off to porn model Aletta Ocean and she is hired by the top companies in the porn industry, even in this year 2012. Must be for a reason. She is probably considered a top sexy girl by many men.

OK, USD 600 for 3 hours is double what girls in the strip clubs in Kiev asks and I know that. International escort web pages are very expensive but people obviously pay the price sometimes to get the most beautiful girls and in a convenient way. I suspect that they have hard times to fill the booking schedules though, especially in these poor economical times. Now, lets compare international prices for top escorts with Kiev. The prices for girls in clubs in Kiev is organized by the maffia and that is one reasons why it is so high. They closely monitor western prices as the know western men go to Kiev to relax and have fun. As the quality of EE girls such as in Ukraine is very high in general it is possible go get top girls if you are really lucky. However do you find them in Kiev's club scene? It is possible but the upper level girls has far better options unless they are fresh and naive, and ok, these are the true gems! If you find such a girl keep her! It happens but I suspect it is not the norm. The top girls go elsewhere to find gold. Perhaps you'll find them in a FKK, Dubai or at a high class escort agency.

More comparisons:

I've been in contact with independent escorts in Germany that are beautiful and would agree on around USD 300 for 2 to 3 hours and that includes anal.

I am being offered to sponsor a beautiful 24 year old girl for USD 1800 for a month as my sponsored girlfriend. She also agrees to do anal sex. In fact she even likes that. I replied to her that I will consider it. I offered her USD 400 after some bargaining for 4 hours of meeting including anal and to make a porn video with her. The cost of course went up with me making a porn video with her. However she agreed.

I mostly go to other countries than Ukraine for girl hunting and I have a very hard time to understand why people spends lots of cash to go to my desitnations for P4P only. Same as Kiev, Moscow etc.

Why do I write all this? In Ukraine I think a good monthly salary is USD 500, average being about half of that. Why pay so much or even half what it cost to shag a known porn actress or a model from a mens mag? What I want to say is that it is all over priced compared to what you get doing only P4P at the famous locations in Kiev.

Work a bit and be smarter and I am sure you find better girls for less money. Invest some time and you will be rewarded. Do not accept the standard maffia pricing of stripper girls even if it is convenient.

Cheers and happy hunting fellows.

/FelixPoints well taken. Where do you look for the porn stars and high end escorts?

For sponsor girls, are you using the websites mentioned here like mamba? Please share.

[Felix Nordic]

well if you are spending one week on a fkk-tour. 300-400€ can easily be spend per day. so i would not say that kiev is more expensive.

fkk-land is safe environment, sometimes too boring, like a walk in the park, while kiev and other ee countries is more adventurous.

i like the idea of the sex-insurance introduced by lj, you can enjoy the girls from both environments in one trip.

ncfirst of all i do not want only to stir the pot here or sound like smart ass. thats not me. i just want to give food for thoughts for alternatives and a wake up. ok, some of you hunters might not need that but i feel others might.

provided you go to kiev for p4p only i would say you get more pussy for the money in germanys fkk's. fkk is more luxury and you get a lot of pleasure. i suspect few people actually take home 3 different girls for a rate of usd 100 per hour in a single day. anyway the practical sessions won't last for more than 30 mins which is what you get in an fkk as well. i think most guys going to clubs in kiev take the 3 hour option or the night and by that they have 2 shags or possibly 3 during that time. i never do nights with hookers anyway because its a waste of time and money and the security has to be taken into consideration as well.
in a fkk you shag lets say 3 girls and can stay as long as you like and even sleep, have saunas and relax, free food and drinks versus 1 girl for 3 hours in kiev. imo what you get is better value in fkk's. isn't this about best pussy for best economy? let me clarify by saying this, that my aim is for those who go to such a destination as kiev only for p4p and do the club otions. if you have your main aim at freebies and p4p as back up only that is another case and i think you guys doing that, does not need a wake up call. again, however thats not the impression i have gotten here. i want to stretch this as i suspect some people will misinterpret my posts.

i try to avoid ukraine and moldova and go elswhere. my schedule for freebies can include 1 to 3 in a day as comparison. i refer to the girls i shag. on a few days when bad luck happens i have of course zero. i am sure that happens to most of us. its too hard to make all perfect. over booking, good luck, bad luck, timing etc. that does not cost me 300 to 500 per day though for girls only.

when i have been in fkk's i usually do a minimum of 4 girls. i much rather have that than over priced kiev. that will cost me around 250. 300 euro though as mentioned by fellow gentlemens. but hey, thats western europe and in germany! not third world ukaine!

if you want adventure and exitement during your trip i suggest you go far off the beaten track. try kirgizstan or uzbekistan. if you only cater to the club scene in kiev thats not adventure to me. it might even be worth the price for the flight ticket to go to the stans i mentioned. game there is not so pricy and youll have tons of fun and a variety of beautiful girls. with that said i do enjoy clubbing in ee, but to hunt freebies. as a side note i have been quite many times in ee and fsu.

in the end i guess it is up to you what you prefer. each to his own wallet and to manage ones economy as one wish. i just wanted to put this all into a perspective, because people do get blind by speed and when the train goes.

cheers and happy mongering where ever the golden pussy is.

/felix

[Felix Nordic]

Points well taken. Where do you look for the porn stars and high end escorts?

For sponsor girls, are you using the websites mentioned here like mamba? Please share.You are welcome man!

For porn escorts I use google and find many options. You can also try to find a site called Serges porn escorts which is some kind of a forum for those who enjoy this.

There are of course others if you shop around a bit. I have monitored porn escorts for a while as I had a wish to meet one of my favourites.

Yes I use Mamba and other sites mentioned to find girls. Some hours spent, but it might be worth it in the end.

Cheers and happy hunting.

/Felix

[RomanyStar]

My planned Kiev trip is getting close. Mamba has yielded the potential for some freebie / non-pro action. I am planning a couple dates with these tempting looking women.

My plan is to meet in the late afternoon, for coffee or a glass of wine. If the young lady doesn't match the photo's then I've invested very little time and money and can walk away. If the candidate meets or exceeds expectations, I will suggest a shopping trip and a decent meal. From there it will be time to move the situation as well as I can to the desired outcome, always bearing in mind that if it feels like the lady is playing the situation without an intent of compensating me for my investment that a quick exit might be necessary.

A couple questions. First, where are these girls in the sense of personal space? Is it OK to casually touch, hands, hugs, etc with someone you have just met? My experience in Latin America has left me pretty forward this way. What is the normal dinner hour in Kiev? Is it difficult to get seated in a decent restaurant at a particular peak hour? And finally, which nights are best to devote to this strategy? I'm thinking Friday and Saturday might be more crowded at Rio, so better to follow these other possibilities. What about Sunday? Is it a good dating night, or a better night to be in the clubs?

[Jojosun]

Points well taken. Where do you look for the porn stars and high end escorts?

For sponsor girls, are you using the websites mentioned here like mamba? Please share.Porn Stars.http://www.photogirls.net/

[Vitrea]

Porn.

Stars.http://www.photogirls.net/Thank you. Very interesting.

[Muddy7]

What are some of the nice restaurants in the center? I like steak and shashleek especially after spending time with a pretty girl.

No posts about this and its so important.

In my last trip I went to a restuarant in the underground super market, it had decent shashleek and steak for a good price and I also went to mc donalds.

I have been to TGI Friday and didn't like it much.

I have also been to the pizza rest next to TGI and it was just okay.

So, what are some of the nice rest with average prices in the center?

Its hard to find good rest in Kiev

[LifeSavour]

What are some of the nice restaurants in the center>>>>> nice rest with average prices in the center?UMMM, center & average prices do not 'compute'!

I rather enjoy Pervak between metros Palats sportu & Lval tol stogo? On krasnoarmynskaya street (well the corner).

A good steak will be 'pricey' in center!

[LifeSavour]

First, where are these girls in the sense of personal space? Is it OK to casually touch, hands, hugs, etc with someone you have just met?I always stand up when we meet (see, I am already in the kafe drinking a pivo as they are always late) , she is a freebie and if I hold out my arms. She always comes to them. And I kiss her cheek!

UKR gals love this! Kisses!

[Guntherus]

There is this sushi-restaurant very close to TGI Friday, maybe it was on the other side of the street. Bessarabska-center. Most girls love this place.


What are some of the nice restaurants in the center? I like steak and shashleek especially after spending time with a pretty girl.

[RomanyStar]

What are some of the nice restaurants in the center? I like steak and shashleek especially after spending time with a pretty girl.

No posts about this and its so important.

In my last trip I went to a restuarant in the underground super market, it had decent shashleek and steak for a good price and I also went to mc donalds.

I have been to TGI Friday and didn't like it much.

I have also been to the pizza rest next to TGI and it was just okay.

So, what are some of the nice rest with average prices in the center?

Its hard to find good rest in KievThere is little info, but I received a PM suggesting Tarantino. It is on my list as the place to take a date, and on the map I've prepared to help Kiev newbies that you can find here:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=UTF&msa=0&msid=202083364326811814553.0004b69c9d40f14d29d51

[RomanyStar]

I always stand up when we meet (see, I am already in the kafe drinking a pivo as they are always late) , she is a freebie and if I hold out my arms. She always comes to them. And I kiss her cheek!

UKR gals love this! Kisses!A lovely picture. The perfect romantic start.

Any suggestions for a cafe in the area of the Opera House?

[Ronaldinjo]

In answer to various correspondents I make the following points as a veteran of Ukraine.

Odessa is a great place to visit, probably with a girl in tow. Pick her up in Kyiv, get a cheap flight to Odessa (very cheap) and she'll be very grateful. Almost all girls going to Odessa (or Krym) takes bus or train. I know a lot of girls...Hello Theknight,

How do you find Odessa compared to Kiev? Where the quality of girls is better? Where do you have a higher chance to shag a hot chicks?

[Iceberg27]

Nice discussion and well thought out comments. P4P vs freebies I think it is more than just about money. Hunting down and nailing a freebie, though way more fun and exciting, however requires a greater investment in time, need to have your A game, personality, good interpersonal skills, some language skills, communication, self confidence and most importantly, willingness to accept rejection. Not many guys can handle those. Many guys, especially married ones, rationalize a P4P as purely physical but the emotional bit that sometimes may develop in a freebie situation makes them feel guilty. For all these reasons, for some guys, it is worth the extra money especially when they have it.

I read a great quote on ISG forum a while ago: " I pay her not for the stay but for her to leave when I want her to leave"I just want to thank all of you guys for making me have good time at this of the day by reading this discussion about Germany FKK vs Kiev and answer to many questions in my mind about the issue.

I have been in Kiev and Kharkov two years ago so I understand many problems you experience but I want to give another point from a different point of view.

I am a Turkish and live in Istanbul. When we arrive to Kiev with a close friend and when we get into our Dreamland; River Palace we were totally shocked and disappointed because prices were 200-300 USD.

We were disappointed because we thought we are directly on the farm and we were thinking that we will find cheaper prices and much more talent compared to Istanbul. It was only 200-250 TL (150-200 USD) inIstanbul to go with a charming EE lady for 2 sessions. For talent I can say I was satisfied but my expectations were higher. You can find slightly different lower talent in Balance Disco or Bacardi Bar in the old good times of these places. (Both are in Istanbul.)

Remember the protest had been done in Kiev in the past."We don't want Ukraine is the brothel of the Europe!" "Ukraine women are free bla bla blaa."

I am sorry but it has been. We all guys especially we Turks went there and paid incredible prices for sex.

What can I say? It's a big commercial success for Ukranian Mafia who controls the system there.

They specify the prices and we pay. Nothing to do with it. I am sad for those who skipped the early years of Prestroyka and Glastnos. (People told me that 100 USD was enough for whole night with a Russian)

BTW I again appreciate your efforts for that discussion. I decided to try FKK clubs for the next time.

Best regards and stay perpendicular.

[Vitrea]

What can I say? It's a big commercial success for Ukranian Mafia who controls the system there. (in Kiev) .Appreciate your comments. I have been in IST couple of times and I have been to high end and low end bars there. The presence of Russian / Ukrainian Mafia is pretty obvious there as well. Long story but I had a close encounter with the EE mafia in Istanbul. I thought I was going to be killed but luckily I made it out alive.

[Muddy7]

I am thinking about buying tickets and traveling to Kiev for 2 weeks on April 4th, next month.

Do you think the first 2 weeks of April is a good time to be there as far as Rio is concerned?

I don't want to go there and see there are not many girls at Rio

I want to go there before the euro 2012, cheaper prices for apts

[RomanyStar]

I am thinking about buying tickets and traveling to Kiev for 2 weeks on April 4th, next month.

Do you think the first 2 weeks of April is a good time to be there as far as Rio is concerned?

I don't want to go there and see there are not many girls at Rio

I want to go there before the euro 2012, cheaper prices for aptsI will be posting current situation and reviews starting 3/15 if you can hold off on buying those tickets for another week.

[Rediska]

Hello guys!

Read about Kiev everything I could since I will visit this city soon. A lot of information but mostly around stripclub Rio.

Just try to pick the best options for us at this point.

1. Rio, stripclub, according to many sources a great place to go to see girls and take out (as understood no action inside the club?).

Price $200-400 for 3 hrs.

Any other stripclubs that can compete?

2. Websites. Read about vodkaescort. Com and top-modals. Com, ladieskiev. Com. Any reliable with real fotos or may be without but great looking girls?

3. Pick up places, bar, restaurants full of working girls? Anybody?

4. Night clubs with pros?

What other options?

[LilJoey]

I am thinking about buying tickets and traveling to Kiev for 2 weeks on April 4th, next month.

Do you think the first 2 weeks of April is a good time to be there as far as Rio is concerned?

I don't want to go there and see there are not many girls at Rio

I want to go there before the euro 2012, cheaper prices for aptsThis has been commented on many times previously. You must have concern in all mongering destinations when it comes to holidays generally celebrated, since girls go home to be with family. Learn and remember this. It applies to Christmas and New Year's, as well as to Easter.

You are probably aware that the Christians of Ukraine are mostly Orthodox and have a different system than is followed by Catholics. Look up Orthodox date for Easter on internet. If you Google it you will probably come to the Wikipedia article on the dating of the Easter holiday and the differences among the various churches. And so, although Western Christianity (Roman Catholics) celebrate Easter Sunday this year April 8, the Orthodox Easter Sunday (Eastern Orthodox Churches) is celebrated on April 15.

Therefore, the answer to your question is that the beginning of the first week of April should be ok, but the week involving Easter might be a problem and should be avoided. The latter part of the month of April should be ok too. So maybe back the first week of your visit into the end of March, so that you are there the last week of March and first week of April. Or visit after Orthodox Easter in the last weeks of April.

If you have already booked your travel dates, there will be plenty of girls around for you to have a nice time. As I said, most Ukrainians are celebrating Easter on April 15, so maybe you won't even notice the impact until the very end of your trip. The advice above was for someone trying to avoid any concievable possibility of risk in planning a visit. But if you are already booked and going on April 4, then don't worry about it, as you will more than likely have no problem, as I didn't last year when Easter was celebrated April 24 by all churches and I arrived a few days after and had a great time.

[AColonizer]

First of all, a picture, just one because unfortunately girls don't want to be photographed: that is for who likes details. In the past it was easier.

About crazy prices and criminal organizations, from my experience. Criminal organizations exist because the social system (politicians, policecops, judges, priests, teachers, etc.) allows those ones. The prostitution is a problem because 50% earning of prostitution is invested in narcotics, the earning of narcotics is invested in regular business and real estate. All banks and governments know that!

People can choose a mafia system or a non-mafia system. For example, about this thread, men can be "happy" to pay crazy prices (and get "the rubber doll" service) , or men can choose individualki who provide a good service at a honest price. In the first case, men allow the mafia system goes on. In the second case, men pay women who actually deserve.

It is years I am repeating the same story. You are right when you are talking about a bad system (not necessarily a "mafia"). But aren't you detecting too many pimps in this forum, I mean, don't you think this forum is becoming a great showcase of reports by pimps? You are talking of a bad system just to who are authors in that bad system.

Men shouldn't be resigned to pay crazy prices. They should understand that dirty business, before to approach any P4P in all over the world. For example, I am in Kiev for a week, I have worked with my method, I have paid honest prices (far from those I read here) , I have met good providers (not top-models) , my penis is burning now, and I am going to Rio this evening just for curiosity. I am not a master, but I am not a silly child (durachok) who believe to be an adult. There is no dignity to pay crazy prices!


I just want to thank all of you guys for making me have good time at this of the day by reading this discussion about Germany FKK vs Kiev and answer to many questions in my mind about the issue.

I have been in Kiev and Kharkov two years ago so I understand many problems you experience but I want to give another point from a different point of view.

I am a Turkish and live in Istanbul. When we arrive to Kiev with a close friend and when we get into our Dreamland; River Palace we were totally shocked and disappointed because prices were 200-300 USD.

We were disappointed because we thought we are directly on the farm and we were thinking that we will find cheaper prices and much more talent compared to Istanbul. It was only 200-250 TL (150-200 USD) inIstanbul to go with a charming EE lady for 2 sessions. For talent I can say I was satisfied but my expectations were higher. You can find slightly different lower talent in Balance Disco or Bacardi Bar in the old good times of these places. (Both are in Istanbul.)

Remember the protest had been done in Kiev in the past."We don't want Ukraine is the brothel of the Europe!" "Ukraine women are free bla bla blaa."

I am sorry but it has been. We all guys especially we Turks went there and paid incredible prices for sex.

What can I say? It's a big commercial success for Ukranian Mafia who controls the system there.

They specify the prices and we pay. Nothing to do with it. I am sad for those who skipped the early years of Prestroyka and Glastnos. (People told me that 100 USD was enough for whole night with a Russian)

BTW I again appreciate your efforts for that discussion. I decided to try FKK clubs for the next time.

Best regards and stay perpendicular.

[Rulerk]

I don't know who will read this in time or care, but I'm going to be up in Kiev for the weekend celebrating my birthday. If anyone is interested, let's meet up and chase some tail together! Always great to meet new wingmen!

RulerK

[Ronaldinjo]

This has been commented on many times previously. You must have concern in all mongering destinations when it comes to holidays generally celebrated, since girls go home to be with family. Learn and remember this. It applies to Christmas and New Year's, as well as to Easter.

You are probably aware that the Christians of Ukraine are mostly Orthodox and have a different system than is followed by Catholics. Look up Orthodox date for Easter on internet. If you Google it you will probably come to the Wikipedia article on the dating of the Easter holiday and the differences among the various churches. And so, although Western Christianity (Roman Catholics) celebrate Easter Sunday this year April 8, the Orthodox Easter Sunday (Eastern Orthodox Churches) is celebrated on April 15.

Therefore, the answer to your question is that the beginning of the first week of April should be ok, but the week involving Easter might be a problem and should be avoided. The latter part of the month of April should be ok too. So maybe back the first week of your visit into the end of March, so that you are there the last week of March and first week of April. Or visit after Orthodox Easter in the last weeks of April.

If you have already booked your travel dates, there will be plenty of girls around for you to have a nice time. As I said, most Ukrainians are celebrating Easter on April 15, so maybe you won't even notice the impact until the very end of your trip. The advice above was for someone trying to avoid any concievable possibility of risk in planning a visit. But if you are already booked and going on April 4, then don't worry about it, as you will more than likely have no problem, as I didn't last year when Easter was celebrated April 24 by all churches and I arrived a few days after and had a great time.Welcome back buddy, we have been missing you. Lets summerise all the strip clubs with takeout possibilities in Kiev. Rio is considered one of the best, but not the best strip club in Kiev. There must be at least 1 or 2 strip clubs in Kiev with at least as good quality if not better. Someone knows something about it?

[LilJoey]

Hello, guys!

Read about Kiev everything I could since I will visit this city soon. A lot of information but mostly around stripclub Rio.

Just try to pick the best options for us at this point.

1. Rio, stripclub, according to many sources a great place to go to see girls and take out (as understood no action inside the club?).

Price $200-400 for 3 hrs.

Any other stripclubs that can compete?

2. Websites. Read about vodkaescort. Com and top-modals. Com, ladieskiev. Com. Any reliable with real fotos or may be without but great looking girls?

3. Pick up places, bar, restaurants full of working girls? Anybody?

4. Night clubs with pros?

What other options?You haven't read all you could about Kiev, as the answers to all your questions are in the thread just a little bit back. You should read through the thread for a year going back to capture most of the relevant information. In the case of Kiev, since there was a major change in the end of 2010 with the demise of the River Palace and the Mandarin Club (two great WG locations on the river). So the info subsequent to that will reflect the current situation. Some types of info remain relevant from even prior to this. If you don't even know the correct price at Rio, which I've mentioned myriads of times, it shows you have done very superficial reading. Go back and do your homework better, get the answers to your questions plus loads of other important info, and then come back with questions that couldn't be answered by reading back just a few pages on this thread.

I'm not just writing this to you specifically. I'm writing this to all those newbies who have posted questions upon beginning to read the thread, whose answers have all been addressed in the thread recently and could have been learned with just a bit of reasonable effort. So sorry to bust your chops. But the alternative is abusive of guys who take the time and effort to post the information on the thread previously. Do you expect them to rewrite their reports over again just for you because you don't want to bother to read the thread? Furthermore, my purpose in encouraging you to read more of the thread, is so that you will gain a lot of useful information and greatly improve the quality of your trip.

[Maanth]

Quoted $400 for 2 hours at the Buddha bar from a fairly attractive blonde, but not knockout. Declined. Not interested in negotiating.

Quoted $500 for 2 hours at Millennium. Declined.

Both extremely inflated from last visit to Kiev. (Previously $300/3hrs in both 8 months back).

Thought I'd let you all know.

Was the only possibility floating around with a female to male ratio of about 5:1.

Doom is in the air.

[LilJoey]

Welcome back buddy, we have been missing you. Lets summerise all the strip clubs with takeout possibilities in Kiev. Rio is considered one of the best, but not the best strip club in Kiev. There must be at least 1 or 2 strip clubs in Kiev with at least as good quality if not better. Someone knows something about it?Just look up the prior posts of TheKnight. He has done the widest reporting on the topic of other Kiev strip clubs possibilities. Generally take out is available, but is more expensive than at Rio.

[Ronaldinjo]

I have read some articles pointing thats this club is best strip in Kiev, with highest quility of girls and yes a little bit expensive than Rio. The knight was there, what can you say about the club man? Have anyone been there? What is the quility of girls there? Liljoey, maybe you know something about? Other gyes?

[Rediska]

You haven't read all you could about Kiev, as the answers to all your questions are in the thread just a little bit back. You should read through the thread for a year going back to capture most of the relevant information. In the case of Kiev, since there was a major change in the end of 2010 with the demise of the River Palace and the Mandarin Club (two great WG locations on the river). So the info subsequent to that will reflect the current situation. Some types of info remain relevant from even prior to this. If you don't even know the correct price at Rio, which I've mentioned myriads of times, it shows you have done very superficial reading. Go back and do your homework better, get the answers to your questions plus loads of other important info, and then come back with questions that couldn't be answered by reading back just a few pages on this thread.

I'm not just writing this to you specifically. I'm writing this to all those newbies who have posted questions upon beginning to read the thread, whose answers have all been addressed in the thread recently and could have been learned with just a bit of reasonable effort. So sorry to bust your chops. But the alternative is abusive of guys who take the time and effort to post the information on the thread previously. Do you expect them to rewrite their reports over again just for you because you don't want to bother to read the thread? Furthermore, my purpose in encouraging you to read more of the thread, is so that you will gain a lot of useful information and greatly improve the quality of your trip.Liljoey. First I would like to thank you and some other guys for all great information you gave to others. I will read more posts and will check again ones I already view with more attention. Reason for my post was to narrow down to short several paragraphs places and options available to guys looking for love in right places. Thats it, and nothing more. But as I always do I will do my home work.

Reading about Rio 3 hrs deal for $300 I never saw if anything available in the club? Most likely I miss something?

Prices in Kiev seems pretty high to me considering that a lot of guys give it good grades compare to other places, including Moscow and coming to Ukraine from places like Germany where FKK clubs just perfect place for guy looking for company. Yes I read discussion but still not sure why.

May be I need visit Ukraine first to make judgement.)

Poka

[Rediska]

I have read some articles pointing thats this club is best strip in Kiev, with highest quility of girls and yes a little bit expensive than Rio. The knight was there, what can you say about the club man? Have anyone been there? What is the quility of girls there? Liljoey, maybe you know something about? Other gyes?Just found interesting site.

At least visitors can find there some info about ukrainian stripclubs.

http://striptease.ua/eng/

[LilJoey]

I have read some articles pointing thats this club is best strip in Kiev, with highest quility of girls and yes a little bit expensive than Rio. The knight was there, what can you say about the club man? Have anyone been there? What is the quility of girls there? Liljoey, maybe you know something about? Other gyes?What articles did you read claiming Solid Gold best in Kiev? Can you cite them or provide a link?

I've never been to Solid Gold because I usually come in to Kiev for only a few days and since Rio has great looking girls at $300, I didn't think it paid to go to other clubs where price was $400. The only reason might be if the beauty level was significantly better than at Rio. In these matters, I think you can consider reports by TheKnight as reliable. The next best thing is to check it out personally and compare Solid Gold to Rio based on your own experience and what you see.

FUTURE TRIPS: My upcoming trips in April include a long weekend in Kiev which will be a 5 day visit from March 30 to April 4.

(I also am planning an FKK trip later in the month (April 18 -- 22) and hope to hit the following clubs: April 18 - daytime Goldentime Vienna, overnite Artemis Berlin. April 19 - Madrid - Factory Air. April 20 - 22 - Frankfurt area clubs including Oase and Palace. April 22 - London.)

So maybe during my 5 day visit to Kiev in the beginning of April, I will have a chance to check out some other strip clubs besides Rio and satisfy myself whether there is any appreciable difference in the beauty level of the top girls at other clubs versus Rio that might warant an extra $100 in take out costs.

If you or anyone else does check out the other strip clubs as well as Rio, don't forget to post your impressions. Each post that is on topic is valuable, as, even allowing for differences of opinion on the beauty meter, or differences in the line up on different nights, they help provide a picture of what's going on.

LJ

[Nille Copenhagen]

FUTURE TRIPS: My upcoming trips in April include a long weekend in Kiev which will be a 5 day visit from March 30 to April 4.

(I also am planning an FKK trip later in the month (April 18. 22) and hope to hit the following clubs: April 18. Daytime Goldentime Vienna, overnite Artemis Berlin. April 19. Madrid. Factory Air. April 20. 22. Frankfurt area clubs including Oase and Palace. April 22. London.)

LJWe are all seeking beautiful girls, but "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", some guys likes big fake tits, some like blonds, and so on.

So we might never agreed, for example I don't find Jennifer Aniston hot at all, she is just plain Jane to me, but yet she is named as one of the hottest woman in the world.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2072589/Hottest-Woman-ALL-Time-Jennifer-Aniston-named-sexiest-beating-Angelina-Jolie.html

She wouldn't last a day in the clubs.

Maybe see you around in the FKKs in April.

Nille