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CalgaryFleshma
08-11-12, 13:20
Quick question on Buda Bar. Is there a cover? When do you pay it? It is around 3 in the afternoon what are the odds some ass will be there or do I need to wait until the evening. Final question is there any negotiation involved? I here $200 but is that for an hour or three hours? It seems at REO you pay 300 for 3 hours. Sorry if these have already been answered. Will find out if my hotel charges extra for a girl in the room but I doubt they would.

Jojosun
08-11-12, 13:39
But you should know that my experience at the strip club Rio has been that I have never been pressured to buy any private dances or anything at the club. It is entirely possible for a customer to come into that club, pay just the 100 UAH admission fee, and order a cheap glass of tea, and to sit there hours just looking at the dancers strut their stuff on stage. No one will approach or pester you to spend anything more or buy any additional service. It's Very different from other places in the world, like every other strip club where the girls pester you for lap dances, or bar.

I think (Queenstrieb) summed up RIO Club "Neither a Haven For Sex Tourists Nor a Tourist Trap ".

From my expeiences at RIo, I can vouch for the above in liljoey's post, and Queenstrieb's verdict.

Albeit I ordered beer not Tea. But I never took out a girl from there. Its Against my rules to pay US$300 + in one session. Hence I can't vouch what sort of experience one gets with a Rio Girl, Like BBBJ or CBJ, number of POPS, DFK, etc.

I know for a fact that I get really hassled for private dances in the Top Lap dance clubs in London, but not for drinks.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 16:16
hello pedro:

your analysis and attitude is correct nonetheless we always want to think otherwise and i personally encourage the girls to give me their all thinking that i am a sucker while staying in full control. yes, it usually cost me a bit more but i am often happy with the result.

i usually spend little money at the club but once i made my choice and had a small conversation; i act as i am totally in love and under her control while treating her like a queen that after produced great sexual service.

i have also invited some of the superior girls to meet me out of the clubs on their day off getting excellent service while paying them the same amount for longer time meaning they get double the money since they don't have to split it with the club.

i disagree that many of these girls started as [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) victims (i am sure some were) ; it is simply economy as these girls figured that they can make the most money from being in this business and many of them come from poor background. i have actually had a few of them who really love sex and won't even let you go to sleep till they're completely satisfied.

my take to get the best service is to treat them with dignity, appreciation, and show them some love. over the years, i have been able to turn the hardest girls into angels in a very short time even if it was acting on their part but why not since you are paying them the same anyway.i find most of what you say here to be correct, and my reference as wgs having been [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) victims may not apply in ua as much as in other places, i give you that. i can tell you also that i have offered normal girls in ua the equivalent to 2 and 3 months salary to come sleep with me, and i was rejected about half the times. none of those girls had jobs. as for treating a wg at the strip club like a queen, that means the queen orders what she wants and you satisify their every whim: this surely includes bottles which are extremely expensive and the 'queen' would like to extend that spending binge (from her admirer, white night, savior, subject, etc.) for as long as your wallet has anything on it and your cc are not maxed out. that is a very expensive proposition! the club, club owners and fans would be thrilled, but you are more likely to get fucked than to get laid. worst yet, after such royal treatment, she may act like a queen and not agree to satisfy your desires.

a strip club is a very well throughout business. everyone working there has the expected intent to maximize profits by milking each and every client to the full extent. if there is any juice left in the lemon, they will squeeze it some more, and you know what we do with the lemon after all juice has been drained. there are no innocent or naive people in a strip club, except maybe the patrons.

my advice is: go in, identify the girl, make your offer and get out asap with most of your money still in your pocket. i would not pay the girl a penny until she is in my room, as 'queens' are known to be moody. and they have the right you gave them by treating them as such.

to get 'extra', work on her hard and long, doing what she likes in bed to make sure you try your best to make her cum. that should add to your own pleasure. but their choice, preference, taste, economy, etc. does not come before yours, as they will always try very hard and with great mastery.

one often forgets that as many wg you may have dealt with in your life, the girls met an equal or larger number of clients in a few weeks. we are not match to their expertise, this is not an equal negotiation (yes, they are always negotiating for more). and we are horny, so most of our blood left the brain, and they know it. queen? no way, i am the king because i have the dough they want, and i never forget that. i invite you to consider this fully and never forget it when you deal with a wg, especially in a club where males (their bosses) direct the game.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 16:19
Thank you, I'm in Europe already so ill buy a local Ukraine cell phone when I get there, and then work fast, LOL.

PS what kind of cell phone, by GSM you just mean a normal cell phone, right?, yes, normal unlocked GSM. Mini and normal SIM cards will do. If you get a smart phone to also get emails on it, you need to modify the settings under Network and APN to whatever string the phone company in UA will give you. Test all before leaving the store. If you have an iPad with Verizon, is not locked and will also work with a SIM you buy in UA.

Remember to change 'data roaming' to 'off'.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 16:22
Thank you, I'm in Europe already so ill buy a local Ukraine cell phone when I get there, and then work fast, LOL.

PS what kind of cell phone, by GSM you just mean a normal cell phone, right?. Don't buy your cell phone once in UA, only the SIM card. If you buy a phone in UA you will pay more for the phone and the keypad will have Russian characters. Any unlocked GSM with quad-band will work.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 16:24
GSM is now a world standard, even if nowadays it is better to refer, in some cases, to G3 as this standard includes data transfer (email, browsing etc) what counts is the frequency, as US has a different frequency than other countries, same as Japan and Korea (and Mexico if I well remember).

Obviously a phone bought locally works for sure, but you can have a generic GSM phone and it will work everywhere as said above. The local SIM card is good for the local rates, and people calling you will not spend a fortune in international calls to you, being just a few miles away. Bear in mind prepaid SIM cards do expire after 6 months if not used or reloaded. And usually do not work abroad. Can be seen as an advantage, though. Since this way you will not reveal your personal number and after the needed time, it will be dispersed. No strings attached anymore.Try to use Skype and WiFi to call overseas. CAlls to USA numbers from anywhere in the world are free with Skype. Vonage has similar service. IF you need to dial using regular cellular connection, dial 000 plus country code and number: it is much cheaper than dialing directly the international access code and number. If dialing to USA you would dial 00013055551212 for instance.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 16:25
Beware, with a cheap mobile phone, you will pass for a loser, and your attraction will plummet. Better you buy in your own country an unlocked Iphone 4, or better, buy the 5 if you plan to travel after the 21 September (its date of release).Yes, Prosal is right on. In Kiev you are judged by the shoes you wear (how nice and clean) first and by the phone second.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 16:32
Could not disagree more. After being treated like a piece of meat night after night, strippers often respond very well to a little bit of nice treatment. Many of these girls are not looking for money as much as they are looking for a little personal attention, empathy and respect. There is many opportunities with strippers in FSU, as long as you treat them nicely and respectfully. It's one of my fav target groups in FSU. Furthermore, having a stripper as a regular "fuck-buddy" is a very good position in that even if you go to chase in clubs or have a date and say don't get any success that night, you always have your stripper to fall back on in the morning.

I remember a stripper I scored in Chisinau. She would get off of work at 5am, sent a sms to see if I was still awake (and alone) , and if I was, would go to my apartment, down one beer or two, talk a bit, bang me, sleep till noon, have "morning" sex, and then leave. No questions asked, no materialistic expectations, save sometimes a few drinks before her work at 7pm. Talk about a nice situation. Had the same kind of experience in Tashkent and in Bucarest.

Also keep in mind that those girls often live in crappy tiny appartments with other girls or with their family (often the parents, the sister, the brother in law and the nevew) , so it is almost a humanitarian gest to offer them a nice accommodation for the night. (smilie) OK, we disagree on this one. Probably the only way a girl can stand so many hands on her tits and rubbing so many dicks per day, is by 'not being' there mentally, the definition of jaded. Curiously, just like a heart surgeon, they need to forget that what they deal with is a person, or their emotions will take over and hurt them, and the 'patient'. I am afraid that the illusion of getting a WG to warm up to you, see you as a person and even more, have any kind of warm feelings for you, are just that, an illusion. I am talking about professional WGs, the ones you find in clubs, not a girl that is complementing her income with a little fucking here and there from men they don't despise. I think it is wishful thinking on your part, maybe delusional. Girls are naturally good at manipulating us, playing with their and our emotions. WGs are masters at it. I wish you were right though.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 17:20
Dear Pedro,

A.

I have noticed another way it can cost you money at a strip club. What happens is that even though you bought a girl a drink and she is sitting with you, oftentimes they will come over to the girl and tell her that it's her turn to dance on the stage. That means she will be gone for about 15 minutes, hopefully to return. They make you aware that if you don't want her to go, you can give her 100 UAH, which is the amount she would supposedly get from dancing her set, and then she will stay with you. 100 UAH is about $12. 50 USD. So it's not a large amount, but it's not insignificant. These costs, the drinks, private dances, tips, and bump fees to get her to skip her turn on stage, are a low level bleed on your cash. They bear keeping an eye on them, so it doesn't get out of hand. However, the big cost to be concerned with is the take out fee, for a girl that ends up with lousy rapport with you and gives lousy service in the end. That cost is a big dent in your wallet if you make a poor choice in the selection of a girl. Therefore the low level costs that are incurred as you investigate the possibilities of which girl seems most likely to deliver a GFE back at the apartment, are worth it to spend, in order that you take the necessary time to choose the take out girl carefully and have the feeling that she really likes you, and that there is sexual chemistry between you, so you can place your best bet. If you sense that a girl who looks hot is of the hardened WG type, then jettison her immediately and don't consider her further. What you are looking for is the girl that genuinely smiles at you, and likes you. Sure these 20 year old girls can sometimes be acting. But you are no dummy either, and you can usually feel the vibes and when they are good you usually know it too. Can you be fooled? Sometimes. But not often. So do your best, and give your best, and try to reach the human side of each girl, and if she let's you in, it can be great. (I reduced the comment I am replying to, to save 'paper').

Points well made and I agree with you are spot-on for cases of newbies: new girls into the business, probably for the first few days, weeks and maybe short months, but not past that (IMHO). So my advice and personal practice, taking your advise in consideration, will be to look for young women (under 23 perhaps) whom my intuition (there is no other data to use) tells me she is fairly new to the trade.

The problem with that is that I might be wrong, that a 'newbie' could have been fucking for pay since age 14 in UA (it happens) and by age 21 she is a veteran with more experience that I will get in two lifetimes, etc. I can also be wrong and take for newbie a callous veteran. If I am right, it will probably be great. I am not a gambling man (not true, I am!) but I bet that the odds are very much against me making the right choice in that environment where Management seeks to employee and keep employed, big performers in terms of ROI. A truly beautiful girl girl I met in UA (I could only do her once, when she was a little tipsi, and I could hardly get it up.I was drinking with her) was denied entry into a club because of 'face control'. Although she was beautiful (trust me, a 10) she did not appear to be the kind that would get an old man to spend money on drinks for her. For those establishments, is all about money (like everywhere else in the world when it comes to business).

Other environments (the street, a normal club where students and others go, shops, museums, Mamba, SeekingArragement, etc.) are more conductive to meet a girl who needs a sponsor. That is the ideal relationship because it does turn into a complete GFE relation, which appears to be what most of us want. A strip club is a money making establishment that uses sex (or the illusion of it) to attract men with fat wallets: by definition that is not the place to find a GFE. There is no pretense of not being a sex worker, if not just a prostitute, on a girl working as a stripper (although not all are prositutes) , but they will sit in your lap and rub their glorious parts against your (hopefully) hard dick, man after man, dick after dick. For a girl to remain somewhat vulnerable, able to attach emotionally, develop feelings for a patron on such conditions, in my opinion, is very unlikely. Since you consider your odds before investing (spending / betting) , that is not the preferred venue on the eternal pursue of wonderful GFE.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 17:31
Dear Pedro,

Oice in the selection of a girl. Therefore the low level costs that are incurred as you investigate the possibilities of which girl seems most likely to deliver a GFE back at the apartment, are worth it to spend, in order that you take the necessary time to choose the take out girl carefully and have the feeling that she really likes you, and that there is sexual chemistry between you, so you can place your best bet. If you sense that a girl who looks hot is of the hardened WG type, then jettison her immediately and don't consider her further. What you are looking for is the girl that genuinely smiles at you, and likes you. Sure these 20 year old girls can sometimes be acting. But you are no dummy either, and you can usually feel the vibes and when they are good you usually know it too. Can you be fooled? Sometimes. But not often. So do your best, and give your best, and try to reach the human side of each girl, and if she let's you in, it can be great.WGs get also fooled, they are human after all. I can't claim innocence, but more than one has been heartbroken by a guy who at the time may have legitimately thought he is the white knight that will rescue a damissel in distress into a better life. We probably all did that, maybe more than once. Some girls trusted us, since we were (probably crazy, but) sincere. They got the shaft when we woke up from that testosterone induced dream. Early on, after a couple of those, they learned the art of pretending they believe us, but they don't. They can take so much hurt, just like anybody else. They need to be jaded and callous to survive in that profession. They do have a human side, but they will not expose it to you because they may agree to fuck you, but just their pussy, not their brains or hearts. One WG once confessed to me that her most difficult job was 'not to enjoy' the sex, as if they do, often times the guy just finishes and leaves them hanging. If they enjoy, they may develop feelings which will be frustrated because you go back to your wife. The other challenge, as per that girl, was to keep their minds busy with some activity that requires them to think, as sex work is dumbing them down without use of much intellect at all. Yes, she did trust me and I did disappointed her.

They have their human side, but for their own good, they can't expose it to you. Is bad business, is bad for their emotional and intellectual well being. The smart ones learn that fast, the others learn a little later.

Normal girl, civilians, who need money seek sponsors, not in clubs. Those are the ones to go after. I got myself several over the years, those relationships lasted weeks or months, and now I have one for over two years. Of course, I do a little hunting on the side, I am just a guy.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 17:38
Prosal, you don't miss a trick, do you.

In a recent ongoing communication with a girl I met on Mamba, age 20, hot as hell tall, slinky, blond, in which she quite candidly confessed to meeting guys at clubs and fucking them, she said "it happens quite often. But I don't make it easy for them to fuck me." When asked how she makes her selection of which man she will fuck, she responds without hesitation,"the man who is wearing an expensive watch and expensive shoes. I like men in official clothes. I like men who are generous."

I asked her whether it was the generosity of the man, or the fashion look that she liked the most. She said that she wants a man who is generous. I asked her how she knows a well dressed man would be generous towards her. She said she can feel it. I asked her whether a man who wants to be generous to her, but doesn't have an expensive watch and shoes, has any chance with her. She said yes, but she still likes the look of a well dressed man. I asked her what she meant by a man dressed in "official clothes". She explained she meant formal dress, like a suit. I asked her what about all the Ukrainian guys I had seen in D'lux wearing jeans and a nice shirt, who were with beautiful girlfriends. She said they were either with them for money, or they were stupid girls. That's the candid interview with a 20 year old hottie who goes fishing for men to fuck in the nightclubs.

I guess some of you guys are thinking,"I told you so".

Probably, the only way to get around this is to only meet these young girls at your apartment and run around in a fancy bathrobe and pretend you are Hugh Heffner, the Playboy Magazine publisher, so you don't wear clothes or shoes.

LJIt is as simple as that, and quite often true. If your attire is cheap, you won't spend money on her to look great. That is their thinking and is quite practical and realistic. They also look at your hands, more specifically your nails. They expect you to have your nails professionally done, which I never did before mongering in UA.

Some upscale coffees, like Volkonski or Mokka House, all you see at the tables is an iphone per person, most times also an iPad. Again, leather shoes well cleaned, bear (if you have one) and hair well groomed, whitten your teeth, clip your nails, carry a nice phone (iPhone best) and yes, they also look at your watch. Don't if you don't want, but you reduce your chances.

UA guys can dress like crap and still get hotties, because they can marry them. UA girls want to get married and if they are single past 21 is sort of a shame in their family. UA guys can be fat, rude, etc. And they will still get laid and get a great gf just because they may marry them. Sad (for us and for the girls) but true. You won't marry them, so they look for you as somebody who may pay for her nice clothes, beauty salon, model photo portfolio and maybe plastic surgery. At least for money.

PedroToronja
08-11-12, 17:41
Buddha bar is walking distance from your place though bit expensive. Expect to pay USD 200. I think Patipa is also not far from your place.

Cheapest option in my opinion is Mamba. Ru. It is hard work but you may get away from UAH 400.

Does Dnipro charge extra for 'guests'? I am planning to visit again next month.The girls know that is as cheap as it gets. You will get a WG there, but if you are trying to attract a girl who hopes for a sponsor, they know you will not be able to spend good money on them. BTW, some hotels block the entry of WGs, I remember GIA told me years ago that their girls could not get into Dnipro. I never stayed there, but is a long story.

Climaxnow
08-11-12, 19:03
The expensive watch is a magnet for girls. But it doesn't mean that the girl will think "I will relieve him from all his money", it just means apparent success in life, and FSU girls like successful men. As a side note, the slim "dress watch" (ie the Jeager Reverso type) is IMO not the type of watch appreciated in FSU. Better bring a 45 mm or 46 mm eye-catching beast. I curently have the new IWC Ingenieur Mission Earth, but hopefully this fall will be able to buy the new Bulgari Octo Quadri Retro, which will be a killer in Russia and Ukraine.I like a simple Rolex. I have no idea what a Bulgari Octo Quadri Retro is.

Prosal
08-11-12, 19:25
I think it is wishful thinking on your part, maybe delusional. Girls are naturally good at manipulating us, playing with their and our emotions. WGs are masters at it. I wish you were right though.I was talking about REAL strippers ie girls who make solely lap-dancings with customers. Not about prostitutes who incidentally also dance.

Prosal
08-11-12, 19:30
I like a simple Rolex. I have no idea what a Bulgari Octo Quadri Retro is.There is so many Rolex replicas in circulation that it is IMO a watch which has lost all its attractiveness.

Jojosun
08-11-12, 21:55
The expensive watch is a magnet for girls. But it doesn't mean that the girl will think "I will relieve him from all his money", it just means apparent success in life, and FSU girls like successful men. As a side note, the slim "dress watch" (ie the Jeager Reverso type) is IMO not the type of watch appreciated in FSU. Better bring a 45 mm or 46 mm eye-catching beast. I curently have the new IWC Ingenieur Mission Earth, but hopefully this fall will be able to buy the new Bulgari Octo Quadri Retro, which will be a killer in Russia and Ukraine.Plus The 6000 Euros Mink Coat? LOL. .

I tell you what Though, you better not walk around London with all the above Gear.

Its a sure sign of invitation to Mug you or worse.

Many people have been mugged and even killed for their Iphone when displayed in public.

Global Surfer
08-12-12, 00:58
Quick question on Buda Bar. Is there a cover? When do you pay it? It is around 3 in the afternoon what are the odds some ass will be there or do I need to wait until the evening. Final question is there any negotiation involved? I here $200 but is that for an hour or three hours? It seems at REO you pay 300 for 3 hours. Sorry if these have already been answered. Will find out if my hotel charges extra for a girl in the room but I doubt they would.There was no cover charge but drinks were quite expensive. There are 7/8 available usually standing / sitting by the bar. Quality is reasonable but prices are very high. Buddha bar is not the best or the only option in Kiev. The reason I mentioned it was your question 'something close to Dnipro'.

Personally I prefer mamba. Ru although you need to spend some time and need to do some homework. Pictures are usually fake but out of four I returned only one.

Keep your eyes open when walking around McDonald or Mango. A friend of mine has best experience with a street walker. USD 100 all night and it means all night.

Samata61
08-12-12, 08:42
i find most of what you say here to be correct, and my reference as wgs having been [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) victims may not apply in ua as much as in other places, i give you that. i can tell you also that i have offered normal girls in ua the equivalent to 2 and 3 months salary to come sleep with me, and i was rejected about half the times. none of those girls had jobs. as for treating a wg at the strip club like a queen, that means the queen orders what she wants and you satisify their every whim: this surely includes bottles which are extremely expensive and the 'queen' would like to extend that spending binge (from her admirer, white night, savior, subject, etc.) for as long as your wallet has anything on it and your cc are not maxed out. that is a very expensive proposition! the club, club owners and fans would be thrilled, but you are more likely to get fucked than to get laid. worst yet, after such royal treatment, she may act like a queen and not agree to satisfy your desires.

a strip club is a very well throughout business. everyone working there has the expected intent to maximize profits by milking each and every client to the full extent. if there is any juice left in the lemon, they will squeeze it some more, and you know what we do with the lemon after all juice has been drained. there are no innocent or naive people in a strip club, except maybe the patrons.

my advice is: go in, identify the girl, make your offer and get out asap with most of your money still in your pocket. i would not pay the girl a penny until she is in my room, as 'queens' are known to be moody. and they have the right you gave them by treating them as such.

to get 'extra', work on her hard and long, doing what she likes in bed to make sure you try your best to make her cum. that should add to your own pleasure. but their choice, preference, taste, economy, etc. does not come before yours, as they will always try very hard and with great mastery.

one often forgets that as many wg you may have dealt with in your life, the girls met an equal or larger number of clients in a few weeks. we are not match to their expertise, this is not an equal negotiation (yes, they are always negotiating for more). and we are horny, so most of our blood left the brain, and they know it. queen? no way, i am the king because i have the dough they want, and i never forget that. i invite you to consider this fully and never forget it when you deal with a wg, especially in a club where males (their bosses) direct the game.yes i treat the girl as a queen but i remain the king with the money. so no ordering around but i do treat her as equal and nicely.

i completely agree with your strip club strategy and use it all the time; i spend very little at the club and it is usually water (my last lap dance was in 19992) so i exit with my wallet in-tact. i may elect to open a bottle of something if i feel like it but only at my hotel room.

if i decide to tip the girl then i do it before the action even start with the catch phrase "this will be your tip if i am happy" and i only had to retract the tip once in my life in a macau sauna so it usually works really well.

happy and successful mongering.

Jojosun
08-12-12, 12:16
Prosal, you don't miss a trick, do you.

Probably, the only way to get around this is to only meet these young girls at your apartment and run around in a fancy bathrobe and pretend you are Hugh Heffner, the Playboy Magazine publisher, so you don't wear clothes or shoes.

LJOk. Now we had the Tips and the Pointers on What To Wear, The latest IPhone to Bring, The Shoes, The Watch. All worked wonders and here you are in your place with Top Of The Range hottie that you are going to seduce.

Surely now is The Time For The Actual Nitty Gritty Of The Night, The Mother Of All Fucking Impressions. What Under- Wear should you reveal to Her?

LilJoey
08-12-12, 13:58
i find most of what you say here to be correct, and my reference as wgs having been [CodeWord123] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123) victims may not apply in ua as much as in other places, i give you that. i can tell you also that i have offered normal girls in ua the equivalent to 2 and 3 months salary to come sleep with me, and i was rejected about half the times. none of those girls had jobs. as for treating a wg at the strip club like a queen, that means the queen orders what she wants and you satisify their every whim: this surely includes bottles which are extremely expensive and the 'queen' would like to extend that spending binge (from her admirer, white night, savior, subject, etc.) for as long as your wallet has anything on it and your cc are not maxed out. that is a very expensive proposition! the club, club owners and fans would be thrilled, but you are more likely to get fucked than to get laid. worst yet, after such royal treatment, she may act like a queen and not agree to satisfy your desires.

a strip club is a very well throughout business. everyone working there has the expected intent to maximize profits by milking each and every client to the full extent. if there is any juice left in the lemon, they will squeeze it some more, and you know what we do with the lemon after all juice has been drained. there are no innocent or naive people in a strip club, except maybe the patrons.

my advice is: go in, identify the girl, make your offer and get out asap with most of your money still in your pocket. i would not pay the girl a penny until she is in my room, as 'queens' are known to be moody. and they have the right you gave them by treating them as such.

to get 'extra', work on her hard and long, doing what she likes in bed to make sure you try your best to make her cum. that should add to your own pleasure. but their choice, preference, taste, economy, etc. does not come before yours, as they will always try very hard and with great mastery.

one often forgets that as many wg you may have dealt with in your life, the girls met an equal or larger number of clients in a few weeks. we are not match to their expertise, this is not an equal negotiation (yes, they are always negotiating for more). and we are horny, so most of our blood left the brain, and they know it. queen? no way, i am the king because i have the dough they want, and i never forget that. i invite you to consider this fully and never forget it when you deal with a wg, especially in a club where males (their bosses) direct the game.dear pedro,

when you describe the scenario of the queen sucking you dry by ordering surely "very expensive bottles", i realize that you are describing a scenario you have seen and experienced in strip clubs throughout the world. i remember trying a strip club in vienna and there it was all about expensive bottles. there were no lap dances at all. if you wanted a girl to sit at your couch and talk with you, you had to buy a bottle, and the time she stayed with you was measured by the size and cost of the bottle. other strip clubs give commission to the girls on the drinks they get you to buy both for yourself as well as for the girl. to add to the damage, the girl drinks that they order when given the chance are not really anything to drink and are fake, so it's all cash to the club. even at manhattan main clubs like flashdancers on broadway and 52nd near times square, the operation is defined by the girls pestering you incessantly for $20 lap dances, and as soon as you are talking with a girl for a minute, one of the waitresses swoops in to proposition you if you would like to buy a drink for the lady, deliberately putting you on the spot and relying on the male ego that wouldn't want to look cheap, do you say sure. it was abusive in my eyes, so i routinely and loudly say,"absolutely not, do you think i don't know how to summon you over if i want to buy her a drink. i don't appreciate the set up and the pressure, so go and i'll call you or another back when i'm ready." the girl sitting there with me never takes off, because she is there to get me to take her for a lap dance, or better to get me into the $500 private room, if i aportar rally into her. so what you are describing when you speak of a generic "strip club" as a well thought out business where every employee plays a role in trying to suck out money from your wallet, is generally correct.

however, what you don't seem to be getting, is what i am reporting as live experience in the field as pertains to the rio strip club in kiev. although it is a strip club, like other strip clubs, in that they have girls dancing and stripping on the stage, and they obviously earn money from sale of drinks from the bar, and food from the restaurant, nevertheless, the prices are not rip off prices, but rather on a par with regular night club prices, for the most part. secondly, there is no "girl drinks" there that are uniquely high priced but watered down fakes, which are designed to milk you of money, and which the girls try to order if given the chance. not once in all the many times i bought a girl a drink at rio, has any girl ordered anything but a normal drink that was real and delicious and not rip off priced. they ordered things like baileys cream with milk, or fresh squeezed orange juice, or cappuccino. the prices of those drinks were not outrageous rip off prices, but rather prices which seemed commensurate with other regular nightclubs. the money sucking operation that you fear with regard to strip clubs drinks and bottles, does not pertain to rio, as the club has obviously decided not to base it's business model on that strip club strategy. thirdly, no girl approaches or pesters any customer for anything at rio. they just dance on stage and smile at you, trying to attract your attention, and get you to want them to come to your table. a smile at you while they gyrate their sexy bodies before you is the extent of their selling that is permitted. it is decidedly not hardsell, but rather soft sell. if you decide to call a girl over to your table to begin speaking with her and interviewing her with a mind toward finding a girl you can take home for gfe sex, the girls are not permitted to ask for a drink, to ask for a private dance, or to ask to be taken out. these requests must come from you. they can be made when and if you decide to do so. a waitress will sometimes come over to you to see if you want anything, whether you are sitting by yourself or with a girl, and this might sometimes subject you to a small amount of pressure. but as i said the drink prices are normal nightclub prices, and this is not where the club tries to suck you dry, like in other strip clubs you have experienced. so if i spend $10 or $20 on drinks for a girl that i want to take home, it is a cost that i keep my eye on, but not a rip off practice whereby a customer gets abused as in other strip clubs in other parts of the world.

so if the girl at rio is not permitted to even ask you to take her home, how does the club expect it will happen? there is no hard sell. the answer is, as i've been trying to get across to you, that the girls' only method of selling anything to you at rio, be it a private lap dance, or to take them out, consists entirely of them being as sexually alluring and also as nice to you as they can. if they want something from you and they cannot outright ask for it, this is the way the selling happens: being nice to you and showing you theyveantvto be with you. it's like any regular girl in any nightclub in this respect. no regular girl asks or pesters you to take her home with you. girls usually like to play a little hard to get, and they want you to be the one to drag them home with you. if you don't take the lead, it won't happen. same thing at rio. the girl sits with you, talks and smiles with you, maybe plays around with you in a private dance in a hot kind of way, but that's it. she says no more, and if you don't ask her for more, then nothing will happen. it's definitely soft sell. given these operational rules which the rio club has decided to implement as it's business model, and given that the only way the girls can market themselves to you is by getting you to like them and want them, in the usual female way by being sexy and coy and nice with you, what do you think that feels like? it is not the brusque hard sell approach of a wg at a nightclub, where you must negotiate under pressure to makecacdecision before they move on to the next possible customer. rather it is a soft sell date that is happening, and you get to extend it and conduct it as you see fit, in order to see if there is a nice relationship here that can be a fun sexual experience later. because of the very soft sell approach of the girls being limited to being sexy and nice to you to get you to like and want them, you will very quickly come into direct contact with their human side and personality. that's the only thing they can show you in this scenario. so a girl that does not find you appealing at all, will not make an effort towards you. those that do want something from you will either genuinely want to fool around with you enough to get you to take a private dance with them, or can summon up the will to act as if they like you sufficient to get you to take them for a private dance. but once they have gotten you to take them for a private dance, if they want nothing further from you, then they have no incentive to do anything than a straight private dance with very little extras during the dance. however, if they find you appealing enough to consider letting you take them home with you, they will keep the charm coming on, and you will see that in the private dance you will get much more than just a private strip. you will get a lot of messing around, touching and other extras, that are happening because the girl wants you to be nuts for her, and wants to show you that she is turned on to you too. if you are worried that the girl is not sincere and is only acting, which is of course a possibility, realize that it is not an easy task for a 20 year old to use all her charms and niceness to you and make you feel as if there is some genuine chemistry between you and her, without calling upon all of her human qualities and interacting with you on that human level. so if you are a well groomed and nice looking man, and you are nice and charming and funny, and genuinely like the girl, and she is interacting with your charm and being nice to you and responding as any girl you might meet and strike up a conversation and develop a relationship with that you carry forward, on your terms, to a sexual laison, then the dynamics of what is happening is far more akin to a date, than what you have experienced in previous brusque interactions you may have had with wg prostitutes you may have encountered in other locations. combine these facts, that the girls at rio are permitted only to use their natural charms of being sexy and being nice to you, to getvyoubto like and want them, a very soft sell approach, with the fact that you are meeting a lot of girls in the strip club that are relatively new at the job, and you can see the possibilities, i am sure.

why has the rio club chosen this soft sell business model, as opposed to the usual strip club model that you are familiar with and describe and warn about? don't worry about them. they are making plenty of money using the soft sell approach, and wisely see that it appeals to customers, as opposed to the rip off money sucking practices used by other strip clubs that irritate customers. they probably see that the soft sell approach brings repeat business their way.

and so, given the soft sell approach, of the girls being limited to market themselves by being sexy and nice to you, and that's it, and the prices of drinks not being designed to rip you off, i think that it is a worthwhile investment in finding the gfe girl forte night, to do some low level spending if necessary to but a girl a $10 or maybe $15 drink, if i feel like it. there is no queen ordering very pricey bottles to worry about at rio. so if you want to try to find a young 20 year old hottie to pass some nice hours, try samata61's approach, and my approach, and just turn on the charm and try to win the human heart of the girl who you most fancy. if she likes you back, then it is a match. if not, she will communicate this to you, by saying she only dances, or just not respond to your charms. if she likes you, you will feel it, because this is the only channel she has that she can communicate to you, subtly that much pleasure awaits you, if you respond to her too. been there, done that.

lj

LilJoey
08-12-12, 14:15
Ok. Now we had the Tips and the Pointers on What To Wear, The latest IPhone to Bring, The Shoes, The Watch. All worked wonders and here you are in your place with Top Of The Range hottie that you are going to seduce.

Surely now is The Time For The Actual Nitty Gritty Of The Night, The Mother Of All Fucking Impressions. What Under- Wear should you reveal to Her?I too would like to hear the answer of the freebie savants as to this under looked accessory. I wear Calvin Klein briefs because I like the feel. But I'm sure our high end nightclub conquerors will recommend something much pricier that only an oligarch's balls should be ensconced in, to impress the hell out of the EE hottie just before she pulls down your briefs to pop your cock into her sexy mouth.

By the way, I looked up the watch that Prosal wrote he likes now:


The expensive watch is a magnet for girls. But it doesn't mean that the girl will think "I will relieve him from all his money", it just means apparent success in life, and FSU girls like successful men. As a side note, the slim "dress watch" (ie the Jeager Reverso type) is IMO not the type of watch appreciated in FSU. Better bring a 45 mm or 46 mm eye-catching beast. I curently have the new IWC Ingenieur Mission Earth, but hopefully this fall will be able to buy the new Bulgari Octo Quadri Retro, which will be a killer in Russia and Ukraine.The IWC Ingenieur Mission Earth is a watch that lists for between $7, 000 to $8, 000 on their website. Don't know what price it's possible to buy it for if you shop around. But it's a very expensive watch.

So I can't wait to see the price tag on the recommended men's briefs for deduction of the Ukrainian model type.

Now you guys who are worried about the cost of buying a girl some drinks at a strip club or nightclub, must realize that the costs of drinks is nothing compared to the cost of a $7, 000 watch, and the right clothes to monger in this space!

I recommend the Hugh Heffner bathrobe trick, and no briefs underneath, Jojo.

LJ

CalgaryFleshma
08-12-12, 20:17
Ok so I was feeling lazy and thought lets roll the dice. Called up Polina http://escort-models.com/en/girls/escort/ukrainian/eva_2556.html

And what did I get hmmm well not quite the picture but I would rank her about a 6. Her name is Eva (looking at the link it makes sense). Before she got over hear I did tineye and ahhh well I got some hits. So when she arrived I couldn't just leave her in the lobby so thought might as well.

Unfortunately the site seeing (and looking at all the hot woman) didn't help much in the bed department. I was about a 20 minute chump but slaved the hell out of her. We had to use a couple of condoms as they must be extra small in this country. Cost me $100US plus 100 (local currency for cab) for about 30 minutes of company. I guess that is a little overpriced and will have to make my way to the Buddah bar this evening (the only problem is only have jeans and didn't know about this entrance requirements!). So might be a short night. In terms of value I think I got a bargain considering in Abu Dhabi the same woman would have cost AED1200 or so for a short time.

Gents you guys are well of wisdom and I am not going to deviate from my experience on this site. Especially since a couple of nights ago that crazy wench from trip advisor I thought things would only go downhill. You can find her in craigslist Ukraine (Kiev) under intimate encounters W4M. She has a perfect American accent and confessed half way into the evening she never actually been to the US (just crazy over americans. I am canadian so sorry to burst her bubble). She is about a 3 or 4 in looks and has a weird mole on her nose or something. She is a little curvy and I would have banged her just for that but she is rather annoying and I would rather have tossed one off myself then listen to her anymore. I get the sense she is desperate to be saved and could lead to someting interesting if you can tolerate her speaking (should cram a cock in it). Anyways look her up and she will contact you (and try to game you for a night out but who know). Last time I met her I did an abrut exit and walked off into the night (after paying for my stuff). I realize while she was insistant to go to a club because without a foreigner she aint getting in on her own.

She also runs a travel agency so if you need someone who speaks great english and understands western culture then she is your woman.

Two more nights here so need to make them count as the wife has started to google Kiev and I think my ability to return may be diminished. If anyone needs a personal guide in Abu Dhabi I am your man (learning Dubai slowly).

Cheers

PedroToronja
08-12-12, 22:29
what is your relationship with rio? can you say one bad thing about them? there are many clubs. but somehow the conversations with you always turns to rio and how good rio is. for real dude, what is your business with them?

as for your elaborate explanation about warming up the hearts of girls whose income depends on making guys believe that they love us. sorry for not buying any of it. at all, not for a second. thanks for trying though. it is a nice fantasy, especially for the people who count the money at the end of the day (club owners and the girls). i hope at least you get some free pussy from rio bud, you work very hard at it, you deserve it!

this is a peer network and we should be able to trust the unbiased postings of our fellow mongers trying to stretch our pussy dollars and get laid rather than getting fucked. we help each other in true spirit of sportsmanship, camaraderie and brotherhood our our glorious and never ending quest for better tasting, nice smelling, tight and warm pussy the world over! amen!


dear pedro,

ass some nice hours, try samata61's approach, and my approach, and just turn on the charm and try to win the human heart of the girl who you most fancy. if she likes you back, then it is a match. if not, she will communicate this to you, by saying she only dances, or just not respond to your charms. if she likes you, you will feel it, because this is the only channel she has that she can communicate to you, subtly that much pleasure awaits you, if you respond to her too. been there, done that.

lj

CherchezFemme
08-12-12, 23:36
Ok. Now we had the Tips and the Pointers on What To Wear, The latest IPhone to Bring, The Shoes, The Watch. All worked wonders and here you are in your place with Top Of The Range hottie that you are going to seduce.?Since I was one of the users who brought up the issue of dress, I want to explain that I have not yet posted on what happened in Odessa because I am restricted to a very slow wifi connection and a tablet pc. I make a ton of typos on tablets and it takes a long time to type so I will post details when I return home in 2 weeks.

I want to say that I would have gotten a freebie but for a devastating display of cock blocking by her 220 pound (100 kilos) friend. This fat pig ruined my chance at fucking for free a 19 year old cutie! This cutie is tall, blond, nice breasts, smart. The total package.

Anyway my friends refused to jump on the 100 kilo grenade and I don't blame them.

I have been in touch with the cutie and want her to come visit me but she doesn't have a passport. She wants to know if I will be going back to ukraine this month and I don't know what to say. I asked her directly if she wants me to come, if she wants to see me, but I did not get a direct answer.

CherchezFemme
08-12-12, 23:45
(Continued) I wasn't really expecting a direct answer since she's only 19 and our relationship as it were took place in nightclubs so we don't know each other that well. She has made an effort to keep in touch with me and she was happy I called which is encouraging.

I'm rambling here. I don't know whether to go back there for a few days, make a short mongering trip to prague or forget about her.

Anyway, we all have our problems, right? My problem is I have seen what life can be like in EE and, like I posted before, it has changed my worldview and sense of what life can and should be like. There are other things I want to say but I will stop here. In a few weeks I will post more on what happened.

Global Surfer
08-13-12, 00:49
The girls know that is as cheap as it gets. You will get a WG there, but if you are trying to attract a girl who hopes for a sponsor, they know you will not be able to spend good money on them. BTW, some hotels block the entry of WGs, I remember GIA told me years ago that their girls could not get into Dnipro. I never stayed there, but is a long story.I have visited Kiev only twice and stayed at khreschatyk hotel. No problem getting WG in and no extra charge. Could you please suggest a reasonable alternative? I am planning to visit again in September. Thanks

Wildout
08-13-12, 01:18
I have visited Kiev only twice and stayed at khreschatyk hotel. No problem getting WG in and no extra charge. Could you please suggest a reasonable alternative? I am planning to visit again in September. ThanksI apologize in advance if I'm taking this convo on a tangent, but when in Sept are you going to Kiev? I'll be there with a few friends in late Sept / early Oct.

Wildout
08-13-12, 01:26
(continued) I wasn't really expecting a direct answer since she's only 19 and our relationship as it were took place in nightclubs so we don't know each other that well. She has made an effort to keep in touch with me and she was happy I called which is encouraging.

I'm rambling here. I don't know whether to go back there for a few days, make a short mongering trip to prague or forget about her.

Anyway, we all have our problems, right? My problem is I have seen what life can be like in EE and, like I posted before, it has changed my world view and sense of what life can and should be like. There are other things I want to say but I will stop here. In a few weeks I will post more on what happened.Cherchez,

I say you be a pal and pass me her info. I'll gladly explore her for you and will make sure to report in full detail.

LOL. But seriously.

CalgaryFleshma
08-13-12, 10:19
I have visited Kiev only twice and stayed at khreschatyk hotel. No problem getting WG in and no extra charge. Could you please suggest a reasonable alternative? I am planning to visit again in September. ThanksDnipro let the WG in but the security ran to the elevator when she got in. I told him to pretty much [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off and he let it go. I am not sure if that means this place is WG friendly or just that I didn't tolerate him. I met her in the lobby which probably helped. I switched to an appartment this evening but the entrance smells like [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) but the inside looks great LOL. I am hitting Buddah bar tonight or die trying. I need to nail a 10 or this trip is wasted. Don't care about the cost at this point as it is only money.

Global Surfer
08-13-12, 12:46
I apologize in advance if I'm taking this convo on a tangent, but when in Sept are you going to Kiev? I'll be there with a few friends in late Sept / early Oct.Probably first week of September. I have not decided yet but three possible destinations are Kiev, Almaty or Sharm-al-Sheik. There is not much information available on Almaty and Sharm-al-Sheikh in this forum. I have read a few pages about Almaty and they sound promising.

Jojosun
08-13-12, 12:51
Beware, with a cheap mobile phone, you will pass for a loser, and your attraction will plummet. Better you buy in your own country an unlocked Iphone 4, or better, buy the 5 if you plan to travel after the 21 September (its date of release)..

Would rather buy a Used Android with a Pre-loaded Sim Card complete with over 1000 UA girls telephone numbers in its memory. LOL.

Now I am thinking there is more than one KIEV. The Kiev I know doesn't need an Iphone 4, let alone a 5.

Oh Lord, its Hard To be Humble.

Jojosun
08-13-12, 12:57
Beware, with a cheap mobile phone, you will pass for a loser, and your attraction will plummet. Better you buy in your own country an unlocked Iphone 4, or better, buy the 5 if you plan to travel after the 21 September (its date of release)..

Would rather buy a Used Android with a Pre-loaded Sim Card complete with over 1000 UA girls telephone numbers in its memory. LOL.

Now I am thinking there is more than one KIEV. The Kiev I know doesn't need an Iphone 4, let alone a 5.

Oh Lord, its Hard To be Humble.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-07_2DWfEmQ

PedroToronja
08-13-12, 19:31
I have visited Kiev only twice and stayed at khreschatyk hotel. No problem getting WG in and no extra charge. Could you please suggest a reasonable alternative? I am planning to visit again in September. ThanksAnd ask for Oksana. She is quite diligent and her English is good. The apartments are nice, from 100 to 140 USD a day. 2 rooms with kitchen, washing machine, etc. They are in Krechiatik, from TGIF restaurant all the way to Maidan, but the buildings are not good by our standards. Once you are inside, the apartments are good.

PedroToronja
08-13-12, 19:33
I apologize in advance if I'm taking this convo on a tangent, but when in Sept are you going to Kiev? I'll be there with a few friends in late Sept / early Oct.And will definitely turn blue. Viagra Blue. Will be glad to meet with fellow hunters.

PedroToronja
08-13-12, 19:39
Dnipro let the WG in but the security ran to the elevator when she got in. I told him to pretty much [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off and he let it go. I am not sure if that means this place is WG friendly or just that I didn't tolerate him. I met her in the lobby which probably helped. I switched to an appartment this evening but the entrance smells like [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) but the inside looks great LOL. I am hitting Buddah bar tonight or die trying. I need to nail a 10 or this trip is wasted. Don't care about the cost at this point as it is only money.Yes, you will find some 10's at Buddha but they start arriving at 11:30 and I imagine price goes down by the hour. They are all at the bar, level 3 (level 4 is for private parties, they call it VIP) , level 2 is just a restaurant. Take your time talking to the girl you like, because many look amazing from afar, but as you get closer they lose about. 5 of a point for every 6 feet of approximation. This is your one expensive shot, take your time and don't pay more than USD 300, unless you fall in love of course. The girl will ask you to walk her out of the apartment when done, till she gets in taxi (or her own car). This is normal because cops are known for waiting them out and ripping them off their fuck money after visits to tourists.

Prosal
08-14-12, 07:25
The Kiev I know doesn't need an Iphone 4, let alone a 5.Admittedly, one doesn't need status accessories when one solely deal with prostitutes. One can even dress like a slob.

Cruiser D
08-14-12, 13:02
It was awesome 7 years ago. Now, not so much.


Hi Guys,

Anyone has experiences about this club?

If you take out the girl from a strip club, when you pay for her?

In the club or in the hotel?

Thanks.

Cruiser D
08-14-12, 13:08
Just remember to get the case with the bunny ears, the girls love that.


Beware, with a cheap mobile phone, you will pass for a loser, and your attraction will plummet. Better you buy in your own country an unlocked Iphone 4, or better, buy the 5 if you plan to travel after the 21 September (its date of release).

Cruiser D
08-14-12, 13:15
Ah, okay. What we have is a pro looking for a well dressed guy who has money to spend (give) on her. How does she know which guy will spend the most money on her? Well, she looks for the best (or most expensively) dressed, social awakward one that has little chance of scoring based on his charms.

Also, can you guys lay off on writing the same thing about strip clubs over and and over and over again? If you haven't figured out the ins and outs of strip clubs after going there 2 or 3 times you are hopeless.


Prosal, you don't miss a trick, do you.

In a recent ongoing communication with a girl I met on Mamba, age 20, hot as hell tall, slinky, blond, in which she quite candidly confessed to meeting guys at clubs and fucking them, she said "it happens quite often. But I don't make it easy for them to fuck me." When asked how she makes her selection of which man she will fuck, she responds without hesitation,"the man who is wearing an expensive watch and expensive shoes. I like men in official clothes. I like men who are generous."

I asked her whether it was the generosity of the man, or the fashion look that she liked the most. She said that she wants a man who is generous. I asked her how she knows a well dressed man would be generous towards her. She said she can feel it. I asked her whether a man who wants to be generous to her, but doesn't have an expensive watch and shoes, has any chance with her. She said yes, but she still likes the look of a well dressed man. I asked her what she meant by a man dressed in "official clothes". She explained she meant formal dress, like a suit. I asked her what about all the Ukrainian guys I had seen in D'lux wearing jeans and a nice shirt, who were with beautiful girlfriends. She said they were either with them for money, or they were stupid girls. That's the candid interview with a 20 year old hottie who goes fishing for men to fuck in the nightclubs.

I guess some of you guys are thinking,"I told you so".

Probably, the only way to get around this is to only meet these young girls at your apartment and run around in a fancy bathrobe and pretend you are Hugh Heffner, the Playboy Magazine publisher, so you don't wear clothes or shoes.

LJ

Cruiser D
08-14-12, 13:19
You might get a Buddha Bar girl for $200 / hr but I wouldn't count on it. If you do it will be at the end of the night. Or if before, the experience will be rushed so she can get back to work.

Your best bet a 3pm is mamba or an escort service.


Quick question on Buda Bar. Is there a cover? When do you pay it? It is around 3 in the afternoon what are the odds some ass will be there or do I need to wait until the evening. Final question is there any negotiation involved? I here $200 but is that for an hour or three hours? It seems at REO you pay 300 for 3 hours. Sorry if these have already been answered. Will find out if my hotel charges extra for a girl in the room but I doubt they would.

Cruiser D
08-14-12, 13:30
Real players don't need props. The less you have to offer a girl (in her eyes) the more you have to offer her. ;)

$7-8k is not a very expensive watch. Over $20k is. Since the advent of always carrying a mobile phone, watches have stopped being a time piece and have become a piece of jewlery. I stopped wearing watches about 12 years ago. Pity, I always liked a nice watch and still have a decent collection.


I too would like to hear the answer of the freebie savants as to this under looked accessory. I wear Calvin Klein briefs because I like the feel. But I'm sure our high end nightclub conquerors will recommend something much pricier that only an oligarch's balls should be ensconced in, to impress the hell out of the EE hottie just before she pulls down your briefs to pop your cock into her sexy mouth.

By the way, I looked up the watch that Prosal wrote he likes now:

The IWC Ingenieur Mission Earth is a watch that lists for between $7, 000 to $8, 000 on their website. Don't know what price it's possible to buy it for if you shop around. But it's a very expensive watch.

So I can't wait to see the price tag on the recommended men's briefs for deduction of the Ukrainian model type.

Now you guys who are worried about the cost of buying a girl some drinks at a strip club or nightclub, must realize that the costs of drinks is nothing compared to the cost of a $7, 000 watch, and the right clothes to monger in this space!

I recommend the Hugh Heffner bathrobe trick, and no briefs underneath, Jojo.

LJ

Cruiser D
08-14-12, 13:34
He was just looking for a small bribe.


Dnipro let the WG in but the security ran to the elevator when she got in. I told him to pretty much [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off and he let it go. I am not sure if that means this place is WG friendly or just that I didn't tolerate him. I met her in the lobby which probably helped. I switched to an appartment this evening but the entrance smells like [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) but the inside looks great LOL. I am hitting Buddah bar tonight or die trying. I need to nail a 10 or this trip is wasted. Don't care about the cost at this point as it is only money.

Cruiser D
08-14-12, 13:51
Sad but true, well not all of them speak English.

Why just last trip I had a cutie who didn't understand English come from a smaller city to spend a few days with me in Kiev. I brought her with me to my farwell visit to Shooters with Irish Lad and the gang. Total cost was 200uah for the train and I gave her $100 to go shopping in Metrograd so I could get some work done and go out on a date or two. Red Diploma at Cocksucking University for sure.

My advantage is that I was already an advanced player in the nightclub scene in Manhattan and Miami, serial dater and a very experienced foreign traveler long before my Italian dress shoes hit the ground in the FSU. I used to be an unstoppable force when I first arrived in Kiev in 2004. But now that I am on the other side of 40 I've been eyeing fur trimmed coats and giant faced watches to keep it going! Keep it real brother! :D


He doesn't mind, he has 1200 girls numbers in his mobile's phonebook, all english speaking of course. (rolleyes)

Gentleman Travel
08-14-12, 14:48
Dnipro let the WG in but the security ran to the elevator when she got in. I told him to pretty much [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off and he let it go. I am not sure if that means this place is WG friendly or just that I didn't tolerate him. I met her in the lobby which probably helped. I switched to an appartment this evening but the entrance smells like [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) but the inside looks great LOL. I am hitting Buddah bar tonight or die trying. I need to nail a 10 or this trip is wasted. Don't care about the cost at this point as it is only money.Security or the hotel usually wants some cash to let in a WG (or sometimes any female guest).
Personally, I think it is best to figure this out in advance or just cooperate when they confront you as you pass the desk.
Usually it is just $10 or $20 USD, which you just have to build into the cost of doing business.
Of course if you use one of the lobby girls, there should be no extra fee.

Apartment lobbies can be very off-putting. At best they are dark and dingy.
Being a real mess and smelling like [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) is not uncommon. Ex-communists don't take care of the commons.
It will bother you more than it will your date. She will care what is inside the apartment.

Good luck & have fun!

Prosal
08-14-12, 15:10
$7-8k is not a very expensive watch. Over $20k is.Expensive watches are watches that combine two or more complications (moon phase indicator, retrograde, tourbillon, ect) , of 100K and more. A 20k watch isn't an expensive watch, and admittedly a 7k watch even less so.

PedroToronja
08-14-12, 17:27
Security or the hotel usually wants some cash to let in a WG (or sometimes any female guest).

Personally, I think it is best to figure this out in advance or just cooperate when they confront you as you pass the desk.

Usually it is just $10 or $20 USD, which you just have to build into the cost of doing business.

Of course if you use one of the lobby girls, there should be no extra fee.

Apartment lobbies can be very off-putting. At best they are dark and dingy.

Being a real mess and smelling like [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) is not uncommon. Ex-communists don't take care of the commons.

It will bother you more than it will your date. She will care what is inside the apartment.

Good luck & have fun!Once I had to tiptoe over a drunken bum sleeping on the stairs of the apartment, as the elevator was not working. He was snoring very loud, so I felt safe. It was disgussing. Yes, the girls don't seem to care, they are used to that. More than what is inside your apartment, they probably care what is inside your wallet. All and all, apartments are probably the best choice unless you have money to blow. Premier Palace and Hyatt are fantastic hotels, Opera and Radisson are also very good but a couple of notches down and not as well located. Go for the burgers at the top of the Hyatt, they are the best in Kiev and the view is fantastic.

The grass is always greener. But I have seen WGs that looked better than anyone I had in Kiev, of course with other guys. I wonder if the source is the real model agencies, but it is hard for me to give it a try as during normal fucking hours I am escorted by my GF of 2 years now, and I don't want to lose her.

Someone else in Kiev, I hope you give it a try. You are supposed to call a regular model agency (no escorts) for fashion, photo, etc. And ask for 3 to come interview with you for the clear plan of being your company for an elegant diner. In the interview, you clearly explain that the meeting will continue for drinks at your room, so they know what to expect, and so do you. Theoretically, these are not prostitutes but unemployed models that will go the extra mile for a few bucks. I imagine that will be a $1,000.00 evening and one to remember. The point is that the girl can say no, and so can you, before you hire one.

In a professional function, with my Company, we hired 3 models to act as receptionists. 2 of them where solid 9's. I assure you that they were visibly nervous when I approached them at the end of the function to say goodnight. I was not in a position to try anything with them as I was in the company of people I work with. I think they expected me to ask them to stay, but not sure.

I hope somebody tries and lets us know. If I have the chance (my GF is interviewing for jobs now) , I will absolutely go for it.

Jojosun
08-14-12, 22:47
Admittedly, one doesn't need status accessories when one solely deal with prostitutes. One can even dress like a slob..

Correct. Problem with the Kiev thread is more often than not, we keep getting our wires crossed here. Hence you find this thread one of the most contentious on ISG.

Your tips and pointers about the Iphone 4 and 5, The super sized and Priced watches, Shoes, formal suites are really more geared towards Dating in General, and not just in Kiev.

All the accessories in the world won't be a substitute for Looks, charisma, and the ticket to score a young real hottie who is not a gold digger.

Your Accessories might give you Thrills, but at the end of the day It won't pay Kiev's girls their bills.

Global Surfer
08-15-12, 00:30
And ask for Oksana. She is quite diligent and her English is good. The apartments are nice, from 100 to 140 USD a day. 2 rooms with kitchen, washing machine, etc. They are in Krechiatik, from TGIF restaurant all the way to Maidan, but the buildings are not good by our standards. Once you are inside, the apartments are good.Thanks. Will definitely consider. Although its almost the same price I paid to the hotel

Global Surfer
08-15-12, 00:39
Dnipro let the WG in but the security ran to the elevator when she got in. I told him to pretty much [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) off and he let it go. I am not sure if that means this place is WG friendly or just that I didn't tolerate him. I met her in the lobby which probably helped. I switched to an appartment this evening but the entrance smells like [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) but the inside looks great LOL. I am hitting Buddah bar tonight or die trying. I need to nail a 10 or this trip is wasted. Don't care about the cost at this point as it is only money.You may also try Delux and Caribean bar.

'don't't care about the cost' is probably not the best option. You may get 10 but no GFE. That would not work for most people.

I still think Mamba is the best option for non Russian Speakers where you may get away from UAD 400-800.

(A Russian from Kazan / Tataristan admitted to going for USD 20 / hour with locals. She was definitely 9)

Wildout
08-15-12, 02:24
C'mon down and join the party!

Just let me know how I can get in contact with you once I get there.

Are you on Mamba? I'm not even sure how I could find you on there, my search button only has one setting. 'women' LOL.

Wild, Out.


And will definitely turn blue. Viagra Blue. Will be glad to meet with fellow hunters.

Wildout
08-15-12, 02:38
BWAHAHAHAA! I fuckin love this guy!

Who needs ab workouts when you have Cruiser D's posts to keep your obliques in top shape.

If you're around Kiev in late Sept / early Oct, do let me know. You owe me a round for making me spit this drink on my keyboard.


Sad but true, well not all of them speak English.

Why just last trip I had a cutie who didn't understand English come from a smaller city to spend a few days with me in Kiev. I brought her with me to my farwell visit to Shooters with Irish Lad and the gang. Total cost was 200uah for the train and I gave her $100 to go shopping in Metrograd so I could get some work done and go out on a date or two. Red Diploma at Cocksucking University for sure.

My advantage is that I was already an advanced player in the nightclub scene in Manhattan and Miami, serial dater and a very experienced foreign traveler long before my Italian dress shoes hit the ground in the FSU. I used to be an unstoppable force when I first arrived in Kiev in 2004. But now that I am on the other side of 40 I've been eyeing fur trimmed coats and giant faced watches to keep it going! Keep it real brother! .

Jojosun
08-15-12, 13:13
Correct. Problem with the Kiev thread is more often than not, we keep getting our wires crossed here. Hence you find this thread one of the most contentious on ISG.I wish the KIEV thread was subdivided into 2 special sections like, Pros and Semi pros, Strip Club Girls etc. And one for Dating the so called real freebies for relationships etc.

Dishing out tips and pointers are wasted, without the poster stating clearly what he is actually looking for in KIEV. And it would be helpful with a brief general introduction of one's self, age group, color, experiences etc.

Then Prosal's Fashion and jewellery tips might be of relevance to someone.

Jojosun
08-15-12, 16:16
Plus The 6000 Euros Mink Coat? LOL. .

I tell you what Though, you better not walk around London with all the above Gear.

Its a sure sign of invitation to Mug you or worse.

Many people have been mugged and even killed for their Iphone when displayed in public.Prosal, my apologies fot the above inflated figure 6000 euros.

Re checked your post (Below) and it was actually 4500 euros.

Sounds like it was a good investment, . But if I were you I wouldn't trust a Coat checker in Kiev looking after it, LOL. Does it have Deep Pockets Though.


Wearing with style and refinement is more effective in winter. You can sharpen your dressing style with nice gloves, scarfs, coats, ect. I bought in winter 2011 a somptuous Zilli black mink and black cashmere coat that allowed me VERY lofty scores. At 4500€, a big investment, but definitely worth it.

PedroToronja
08-15-12, 16:40
.

Correct. Problem with the Kiev thread is more often than not, we keep getting our wires crossed here. Hence you find this thread one of the most contentious on ISG.

Your tips and pointers about the Iphone 4 and 5, The super sized and Priced watches, Shoes, formal suites are really more geared towards Dating in General, and not just in Kiev.

All the accessories in the world won't be a substitute for Looks, charisma, and the ticket to score a young real hottie who is not a gold digger.

Your Accessories might give you Thrills, but at the end of the day It won't pay Kiev's girls their bills.And if you are neat, you probably won't hurt them with long dirty nails, or they won't find you dirty and smelly when is too late for them to back-off, etc. But mostly, if you have money to spend on you, you are more likely to spend money on them. They have to judge the book by the cover, wear the best cover you can afford (pun intended).

PedroToronja
08-15-12, 16:45
C'mon down and join the party!

Just let me know how I can get in contact with you once I get there.

Are you on Mamba? I'm not even sure how I could find you on there, my search button only has one setting. 'women' LOL.

Wild, Out.That is Premier Palace, they have excellent Blue Mountain Jamaican espresso and the occasional very hot chick. All the employees at that hotels are model-looking. I tried to 'sponsor' an amazing chick called Julia, but she turned me down. What else is new?

Jojosun
08-15-12, 18:37
And if you are neat, you probably won't hurt them with long dirty nails, or they won't find you dirty and smelly when is too late for them to back-off, etc. But mostly, if you have money to spend on you, you are more likely to spend money on them. They have to judge the book by the cover, wear the best cover you can afford (pun intended).Been going there since September 2009, so I have my own social group there (Females) who have seen The Cover and the inside of the book. Best way of establishing a status and getting fresh talent.

I prefer doing it in style, so I don't look like a clueless Pervert chasing 18 years old girls. BTW I am in the second half of my 40s.

LilJoey
08-15-12, 19:03
I wish the KIEV thread was subdivided into 2 special sections like, Pros and Semi pros, Strip Club Girls etc. And one for Dating the so called real freebies for relationships etc.I have stated it in the past and wholly agree and endorse Jojosun's recommendation of dividing the Kiev thread into two threads, one entitled: "Pay 4 Play Girls", and the other entitled "Freebie Girls", or similar. The factors and parameters of the search for these two types of girls are discrete enough to make such a division actually helpful.

LJ

Gentleman Travel
08-15-12, 20:30
Has anyone used Elena's Models dating site with any success recently?

I will be visiting Ukraine in October and am starting to make connections to prospects.

Mostly I am looking for "nice girls" and MILFs to seduce. I think I understand the P4P market reasonably well.

I used Elenas Models several years ago with some success, but have no idea of how useful it is now.

One thing I like about it is that it has a high ratio of Ukrainian women vs Russian women, who dominate some other sites.

The other thing I like is that the women tend to specify an interest in a wider (meaning older!) range of guys than some other sites.

Now, whether they are just more open-minded about who to date, or whether they have been advised to say so, I don't know.

I am over 50, but advertise myself as being slightly under. I will be in Kiev and another city yet to be determined (not my choice).

Thanks for any advice stemming from actual experience with this web-site.

Cruiser D
08-16-12, 08:22
Still meeting a gem or two from EM but my action there is not like it was a few years ago when if there was a hot girl on EM and from Kiev I had dated her. I tend to pull most of my dates off of Mamba now with the occasional public pick up.

Do you think Valeria is still around? :D


Has anyone used Elena's Models dating site with any success recently?
.

Cruiser D
08-16-12, 08:27
They used to have the best pasteries in town at the cafe.

Also used to have the best lobby girls back in the day.


That is Premier Palace, they have excellent Blue Mountain Jamaican espresso and the occasional very hot chick. All the employees at that hotels are model-looking. I tried to 'sponsor' an amazing chick called Julia, but she turned me down. What else is new?

Stevie69
08-16-12, 14:35
It works fine, but you can easily use Mamba also, or instead. At Elena's models you get more "serious" girls, looking for marriage but also a few scammers. I figure that even if I am seriously looking for a wife, it starts with physical attraction and physical interaction (sex) , so I am not being too disingenuous. If they are beautiful, smart and good in bed, then I am open to a long-term relationship, in theory. I usually sign up several month in advance of a trip to Kiev or Moscow, and work the site. I figured it is best to got for gold and get the higher level 6 month membership (200 USD) instead of the 3 months one (100 USD). With one you get only 50 contacts, with the other and unlimited number of contacts, so you do not have to count, or weigh whether a girl is worth using up one of your 50 contacts.

After a while it gets complicated and you have to be organized to keep track of who is who. Last time I went to Kiev I had about 25 real contacts, and twice as many in other cities. I was talking regularly on skype with about 5 from Kiev, and they were all "happy to see me" in person. Of the others, some I could not communicate, some just wanted a good time (which was okay with me) and some just did not feel the "chemistry", which is also fine. I would say that strategy does not work if you are only staying for a few days, unless you are only seeing a few girls. I spent 2 weeks, (3 weekends) , going to the south (Dnipro / Zapo / kherson / Niko / Odessa) and the east (kharkov / donetstk) during the weekdays.

It is definitely nicer to visit one of these smaller cities if you have someone to show you around. In the smaller cities I met 2-3 girls in each; my strategy was if they put put on the first night, I stayed a second one, if not, I got some professional help and moved on the next day. My range was from 21 to 36, all beautiful.

One thing is for sure, if there is a little chemistry, and the girl thinks that you are being honest (and like I said, I was, even if I an still single, and here) , she will definitely give you everything in the bedroom.


Has anyone used Elena's Models dating site with any success recently?

I will be visiting Ukraine in October and am starting to make connections to prospects.

Mostly I am looking for "nice girls" and MILFs to seduce. I think I understand the P4P market reasonably well.

I used Elenas Models several years ago with some success, but have no idea of how useful it is now.

One thing I like about it is that it has a high ratio of Ukrainian women vs Russian women, who dominate some other sites.

The other thing I like is that the women tend to specify an interest in a wider (meaning older!) range of guys than some other sites.

Now, whether they are just more open-minded about who to date, or whether they have been advised to say so, I don't know.

I am over 50, but advertise myself as being slightly under. I will be in Kiev and another city yet to be determined (not my choice).

Thanks for any advice stemming from actual experience with this web-site.

LilJoey
08-16-12, 22:05
You may also try Delux and Caribean bar.

'don't't care about the cost' is probably not the best option. You may get 10 but no GFE. That would not work for most people.

I still think Mamba is the best option for non Russian Speakers where you may get away from UAD 400-800.

(A Russian from Kazan / Tataristan admitted to going for USD 20 / hour with locals. She was definitely 9) Global Surfer is correct on both points, CalgaryFleshma.

First, why limit your search for a beautiful WG to Buddha Bar. In fact, there was a specific recommendation back in the thread by Cruiser D to stay away from Buddha Bar, in favor of some of the other clubs mentioned in the thread. Carribean club received the endorsement of Me and You back in the thread as a place where he was able to get very pretty P4p girls for lower cost. D'lux is of course one of the hottest clubs in Kiev and is reported to have a fairly good concentration of girls available for p4p but usually of the higher priced type of girls as at Buddha Bar. There are a number of other clubs mentioned back in the thread as being good places to seek a pretty p4p girl for prices of $200/2hrs and below, such as Shooters, or Avalon or Vodka bar and other places. Research this thread for the names of all the clubs that guys here have been successfully mongering at for lower priced p4p.

Global Surfer is also correct that while at Buddha Bar you will likely find a hot WG, it will cost you probably around $300/2 hours even if you negotiate well. And that it is much cheaper to get p4p girls from mamba. Ru where many girls have prices between 400 UAH ($50) to 800 UAH ($100) per hour. But in this regard too, there is no need to limit oneself to only mamba. Ru. There are a number of other escort websites with similar prices that can be used to get an escort p4p girl to your apartment at similar low cost, such as www.top-modals.com, or www.minuet.biz, or www.vipescort.mx, or www.relaxportal.biz, or www.intimdosugua.com, www.uadreamedcort.com, www.escort-models.net, www.sexbombua.com, www.sexkieva.com, and a bunch of other websites that were listed in posts back in this thread. All of these websites should be presumed to be using fake pictures. But they will send actual girls to your apartment for P4p at the advertised lower prices similar to the prices available on mamba. Ru. So if one is willing to spend the time necessary to make sufficient attempts at ordering an escort girl to come to one's apartment enough times, it has been reported on this thread as possible to eventually get a nice looking girl. If girls who are not attractive enough show up, you just send them back saying, I'm sorry I wanted someone more similar to the picture in the website that your agency promised was a true picture. Another source of p4p girls with similar prices is girl apartments that taxi drivers can show you where they are. Likewise, it is sometimes possible to meet a semi-pro type girl in some bars and nightclubs who will be ok with the similar price of $100, but it's not a guaranteed result of going to a club.

LANGUAGE AS A BARRIER TO MONGERING.

Global Surfer mentioned non Russian speaking as a reason to use mamba in KIev. The ability to speak Russian is an issue for all the p4p options, including mamba. Ru, because many of the p4p ads on mamba. Ru are in fact agencies or girl apartments where it is only the manager or phone person who speaks English, but the girl who comes will likely not speak English. But this is no reason to limit yourself to english speaking girls. As long as you can set up your laptop in your apartment to use Google Translate to communicate with the girl typing messages back and forth. It is enough to break the ice. The new iPhone even has an application for voice translation of spoken phrases, making communication even easier. Try to conduct all communications for setting up appointments via text message, so that you can use the google translator to prepare your messages and to translate their replies, much like you should use the translator to communicate with girls on mamba itself.

COST HIERARCHY OF P4P IN KIEV.

1. 400 UAH ($50) to 800 UAH ($100)

As stated above, the lower cost possibilities (rates between 400 UAH ($50) to 800 UAH ($100) are to be found using websites such as mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com, which have some true pics, and other websites you can locate by searching on the Internet that also have such low prices. However, to use websites, you have to be willing to put up with the fake picture bait and switch tactics of the websites and to expend the time to keep trying in the hopes that the agency you are dealing with will accidentally send you a really hot girl.

Similar low prices can be found also in girl apartments in the downtown area, which you can find using taxi drivers, or if you meet a shill for these apartments in the street downtown. As well, at some bars and nightclubs, you may be successful in getting a girl who is not a professional WG, but rather a semi-pro type, for a low rate of $100 for an hour or two or more, which some members have claimed to have done. It's not an easy or guaranteed thing to achieve when going to a nightclub or bar, but always remains a possibility.

2. $200/2 hours.

If you would prefer to search for a beautiful WG in a way in which you can see the girls in advance and choose to try to get a WG whom you know in advance is truly beautiful, then instead of the fake picture websites, you must go to nightclubs or strip clubs with take out. The possibility of finding pretty WG's or semi-pros in nightclubs for a price of $200/2 hours, like used to be possible at the River Palace up until end of 2010, has been vouched for by Cruiser D and others, so it should be your next level of cost conscious search. Bear in mind that CD recommended searching in other nightclubs mentioned in the thread, and not at the high priced Buddha Bar and D'lux.

3. $300/3 hours.

This rate is the going rate for "take out" of pretty girls at Rio and Mandarin strip clubs. As I have pointed out before, besides getting to see the girls in advance before selecting, as one can do in a regular nightclub, the strip club mongering situation has several added benefits, namely: 1. Allowing you to closely inspect the girls naked body. There will be no surprises due to imperfections hidden by clothing. 2. The ability to actually mess around with a girl in a private dance, which helps one gauge if there is any chemistry between you and the girl. 3. The rules of operation in play at these strip clubs in Kiev, which include there being no rip off drinks with ridiculously high prices with which to gouge customers (as strip clubs in other parts of the world may have) , but rather only drinks at normal nightclub prices being sold, as well as rules which prohibit the girls from propositioning customers for private dances or to take them home for p4p, which in turn results in there being no pressure on the customer from this kind of pestering, and further result in the customer being able to take as long as he wants to speak to the girl and get to know her, before deciding anything. This enhanced the customer's ability to make a better decision as to which girl will be the best bet to get a GFE experience with. This low pressure environment for mongering and making a decision on whether to take a girl or not, is to be contrasted with the high pressure one usually gets from a WG one may meet in a regular nightclub, which is usually much more brusque and requires a relatively quick decision, or she concludes you are probably just wasting her time, and so she moves on to the next potential customer.

Note: It has been pointed out that to this fee must be added the incidental costs of visiting strip clubs which can be between $50 to $100, or more, depending on how many drinks and private dances one gets, and therefore the real cost is about $400/3hours. But the truth is that there are incidental costs of admission and drinks at regular nightclubs too of probably at least $50, and more if you buy more drinks for girls. So in comparing strip clubs to regular nightclubs costs, the incidentals are really a wash, and it is less confusing if one simply compares the direct p4p fees asked by the girls for their time.

4. ALL NIGHT MULTIPLE HOURS REDUCED RATES.

All night multiple hour fees for 8 to 12 hours for $400 or $500.

The all night fee at Rio for example, is $400. At Dolls it was $500."all night" means from as soon after opening time as you can take them out, usually not earlier than around 9:00 PM, until closing time which at Rio is 5:00 AM, but may be later at Dolls. So the "all night" is usually at least up to 8 hours.

You can get a lower rate for a multiple hour all night package deal with girls from mamba. Ru, as well as nightclub WG's too. What is the proper "all night" fee for mamba. Ru girls who charge 500 UAH to 800 UAH / hr for their first hour? Different opinions have been expressed on the thread, but it seems to me it should be something like between triple her first hour fee to four times her first hour fee. So for example a mamba. Ru girl who asked 600 UAH for the first hour, would probably agree to an all night for between 1800 UAH to 2400 UAH, or somewhere between $200 to $300. We've discussed in prior posts whether it's worthwhile to do it if most of the "all night" is spent sleeping. But if most of the time will be during time you are awake and have energy to play with her, such as when you agree upon an "all day" instead of an "all night" date, then you can really reap the benefits of the low costs possible in Kiev with package rates for long term dates of multiple hours.

Similarly, with a very beautiful WG girl from a nightclub, negotiating a long term multiple hour rate can be a way of maximizing the value of your dollars spent. For example, one of the awesome hotties at River Palace in its day, who would never agree to less than $300/2hours, nevertheless agreed to $500 for all night, thereby lessening the cost per hour significantly, and she was a pleasure to spend time with.

5. $300/2hours and $400/2hours.

At this cost level we are already at the higher end of Kiev's p4p options, which at this cost level includes high priced WG's at D'lux and Buddha Bar and Arena, etc, as well as strip clubs with higher take out prices like Dolls or others mentioned on the thread, as well as www.gia-escort.com (which uses true pictures). Www.vodkaescort.com Went out of business but it seems is starting up again with girls from St Petersburg, or may have morphed into www.escortnews.eu, or www.solitairemodels.com, or www.ladiesinkiev.com, and a whole bunch of other escort websites with higher prices that one can easily google search for, but which nobody knows if they use fake pictures or not, because very few guys would pay 150 Euro or 200 Euro per hour in Kiev because truly very beautiful girls are available at half that amount, as above.

LJ

Tuggen
08-16-12, 22:12
It works fine, but you can easily use Mamba also, or instead. At Elena's models you get more "serious" girls, looking for marriage but also a few scammers. I figure that even if I am seriously looking for a wife, it starts with physical attraction and physical interaction (sex) , so I am not being too disingenuous. If they are beautiful, smart and good in bed, then I am open to a long-term relationship, in theory. I usually sign up several month in advance of a trip to Kiev or Moscow, and work the site. I figured it is best to got for gold and get the higher level 6 month membership (200 USD) instead of the 3 months one (100 USD). With one you get only 50 contacts, with the other and unlimited number of contacts, so you do not have to count, or weigh whether a girl is worth using up one of your 50 contacts.

After a while it gets complicated and you have to be organized to keep track of who is who. Last time I went to Kiev I had about 25 real contacts, and twice as many in other cities. I was talking regularly on skype with about 5 from Kiev, and they were all "happy to see me" in person. Of the others, some I could not communicate, some just wanted a good time (which was okay with me) and some just did not feel the "chemistry", which is also fine. I would say that strategy does not work if you are only staying for a few days, unless you are only seeing a few girls. I spent 2 weeks, (3 weekends) , going to the south (Dnipro / Zapo / kherson / Niko / Odessa) and the east (kharkov / donetstk) during the weekdays.

It is definitely nicer to visit one of these smaller cities if you have someone to show you around. In the smaller cities I met 2-3 girls in each; my strategy was if they put put on the first night, I stayed a second one, if not, I got some professional help and moved on the next day. My range was from 21 to 36, all beautiful.

One thing is for sure, if there is a little chemistry, and the girl thinks that you are being honest (and like I said, I was, even if I an still single, and here) , she will definitely give you everything in the bedroom.I was once member of Elenas. There are no good looking ladies above 30 there. I did set my limit to 28. It's very difficult to meet anyone there. Most only want to lie you for money and have no intention to give you anything what so ever back.

PedroToronja
08-16-12, 23:04
They used to have the best pasteries in town at the cafe.

Also used to have the best lobby girls back in the day.I was talking about the lobby bar, the coffee just past the lobby where you get into the casino. The bakery is in the basement, at coffee Volkonsky, and together with Repriza they are the best pastries in Kiev, and excellent hunting grounds but very upscale. There you compete with Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.

PedroToronja
08-16-12, 23:07
Been going there since September 2009, so I have my own social group there (Females) who have seen The Cover and the inside of the book. Best way of establishing a status and getting fresh talent.

I prefer doing it in style, so I don't look like a clueless Pervert chasing 18 years old girls. BTW I am in the second half of my 40s.I agree, when looking for anything other than strict, in-your-face P2P, how you look is very important always, and in that corner of the world, even more important. I do chase after 18 year old girls and older (but not much older!) but I hope not to look pervert or clueless.

Global Surfer
08-17-12, 11:50
Thanks for LilJoey for detailed report. My information was limited to Top-Models, Escort-Models and Mamba. Last time when I returned a below average from Top-Model they refused to send replacement even though I pad USD 10 for Taxi fair.

Thanks also to Cucumber and Canada in Kazakhstan thread to provide valuable information on Almaty.

I have dropped the idea of going to Almaty in favour of Kiev because of

Ridiculously expensive hotels.

Visa problems

Global Surfer
08-17-12, 11:51
I think most people are better off in their home country then travelling. You also need to add the cost of travelling, hotel, taxis, drinks etc. You also need to add the cost of expensive drink. I think a beer in Buddha bar cost more than a whole bottle of Vodka in open market.

In Buddha bar decor, atmosphere and service is excellent but your choice is restricted to 8/10 hardcore wgs mostly from central Asia where as Caribbean is more lively.

Jojosun
08-17-12, 12:31
I agree, when looking for anything other than strict, in-your-face P2P, how you look is very important always, and in that corner of the world, even more important. I do chase after 18 year old girls and older (but not much older!) but I hope not to look pervert or clueless.There are many layers to Kiev beyond the Strict P4P. One of the best at present are the young semi pros. In my case I mix and match between the 2 above, if the looks and price is right. But I never do any dating there. Simply not interested. And secondly I am only interested in the age group 18/25.

Having relegated my first young hot semi pro to a (Mutual friend with benefits atatus) , she is now one of the circle who does the scouting and the referrals for me.

Climaxnow was right about getting a pyramid scheme (Females) there. But it would get Fucked up if other men get on it.

Best way to get a girl is another girl who is in her social group, and not just in Kiev.

Keep your fingers crossed that The Ukraine will never join the EU. Its a sure way of killing the semi pro scene there, much in the same way with every EE country that joined the Europian Union From Poland To Latvia.

Jojosun
08-17-12, 15:06
. I do chase after 18 year old girls and older (but not much older!) but I hope not to look pervert or clueless.It depends on how you go about it, ie doing the chase, where, etc.

One place that I can think of where any monger of a (certain age) wouldn't look a Pervert parading himself around with an 18 years old something, is Thailand.

Very Kosher and acceptable there, the old wrinkled bold men and the young girls. Scene. .

Problem for me is its too humid and hot in Bangkok, and the main reason I am into Tanned Blonde Caucasian Girls.

A compromise is at the CM 2 club at Hotel Novotel Bangkok, where thare are girls from Russia and the former Soviet Union, including Prosal's favorite Uzbekistan.

One really nice and a stunner from Tashkent (White) wanted US$150 all night.

Couldn't do it at the, as I was accompanied (family ).

Prices cheaper than in Kiev, and the girls are not really hard hoes. They are on Fun, sun, p4p Holidays.

Another is in Pattaya, where you do get Russian girls moonlighting on their holidays

Jojosun
08-17-12, 15:10
. I do chase after 18 year old girls and older (but not much older!) but I hope not to look pervert or clueless.It depends on how you go about it, ie doing the chase, where, etc.

One place that I can think of where any monger of a (certain age) wouldn't look a Pervert parading himself around with an 18 years old something, is Thailand.

Very Kosher and acceptable there, the old wrinkled bald bold men and the young girls. Scene. .

Problem for me is its too humid and hot in Bangkok, and the main reason I am into Tanned Blonde Caucasian Girls.

A compromise is at the CM 2 club at Hotel Novotel Bangkok, where thare are girls from Russia and the former Soviet Union, including Prosal's favorite Uzbekistan.

One really nice and a stunner from Tashkent (White) wanted US$150 all night.

Couldn't do it at the, as I was accompanied (family ).

Prices cheaper than in Kiev, and the girls are not really hard hoes. They are on Fun, sun, p4p Holidays.

Another is in Pattaya, where you do get Russian girls moonlighting on their holidays.

Cruiser D
08-17-12, 16:51
I'm really not a big fan of the quality of the pasteries at Repriza. It is however a good low commitment spot to meet for a first date / drink. It is a good way to gauge what kind of girl you are dealing with. Good girls won't think twice about it. Gold digging shrews won't like it one bit (Repriza).


I was talking about the lobby bar, the coffee just past the lobby where you get into the casino. The bakery is in the basement, at coffee Volkonsky, and together with Repriza they are the best pastries in Kiev, and excellent hunting grounds but very upscale. There you compete with Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.

Cruiser D
08-17-12, 16:57
That report nicely sums up everything you need to know about p4p action in Kiev based on good intel written in this forum.

Someone should ROD it.


Global Surfer is correct on both points, CalgaryFleshma.

First, why limit your search for a beautiful WG to Buddha Bar.

Cruiser D
08-17-12, 17:00
There are indeed quite a few hard core scammers on them but they are fairly easy to spot and avoid.

The british guy who got killed met his bride on them.


I was once member of Elenas. There are no good looking ladies above 30 there. I did set my limit to 28. It's very difficult to meet anyone there. Most only want to lie you for money and have no intention to give you anything what so ever back.

Cruiser D
08-18-12, 00:48
For some reason this forum changes my short hand for elenasmodels (EM) to them. How odd.


There are indeed quite a few hard core scammers on them but they are fairly easy to spot and avoid.

The british guy who got killed met his bride on them.

Global Surfer
08-18-12, 01:03
It depends on how you go about it, ie doing the chase, where, etc.

A compromise is at the CM 2 club at Hotel Novotel Bangkok, where thare are girls from Russia and the former Soviet Union, including Prosal's favorite Uzbekistan.You can find Uzbeks in street outside Grace hotel (Sukhumvit Soi3/4) area from BHT 1000. 2000. Obviously note the same quality.

You may find some in Safeway, A regular Ukrainian MILF going for BHT 1000. She claim to be a gyneacologist from Ukraine.

Dubai is also probably cheaper than top Kiev clubs.

BlancoVikingo
08-18-12, 11:53
Hello fellow mongers.

I have been travelling in Latinamrica since 2003, and almost everywere they sell this sex-enhacement medicine without need from a doctor.

Since I have a stack of pills at home I could take them with me, but I prefer not: if they find out it will be a lot of questions and, as I understand, bribes before I could go as a free man.

Prices should be low and availability good.

I really need a Viagra since I will meet my future wife and. Not performing well could have distraous effects. I have been on both sides. With the same Argentine Girl. The first time I had taken Xanax for sleeping and relaxing during a trip that is like 30 hs door-door. She was horney, but xanax not only relax you are mind, it relaxes your body, including your penis to, she felt insulted that I could not perform well, like I didn't got a existed by her (very sexy body). I vivisted her shortly afterwards and she went to bed and there was a model-show on TV. I decided, after getting a HAMMER after a while, pulled her up and penetrated her doggy style. She said " Martin, you feel like a ROCK inside of me". Then we fucked until we couldn't do it anymore, but she woke me up early and wanted to be fucked before going to work.

Xanax I can need when I'm full of stress, but it kills my erection. Viagra, or even much better Cialis and Levitra is far better.

I would be very greatful for any useful info. About this.

Jojosun
08-18-12, 12:29
You can find Uzbeks in street outside Grace hotel (Sukhumvit Soi3/4) area from BHT 1000. 2000. Obviously note the same quality.

You may find some in Safeway, A regular Ukrainian MILF going for BHT 1000. She claim to be a gyneacologist from Ukraine.

Dubai is also probably cheaper than top Kiev clubs.Uzbek girls and others are to be found at the Disco of Grace hotel. Lower grade and heavier than the ones at Cm2.

There are a couple of Ukrainian Milfs who have set up base at the coffee shop on the corner with Suk and soi7 (Or 9). BHT1000 =US$30 for short time =UAH240.

I don't think you can find her doing the same price in Kiev.

Did Dubai on few Stopovers en route to the Far East and Australia, and I agree with you its Cheaper than the top Kiev Clubs.

Dubai is a hell lot more luxurious than Kiev as well. .

I do recall UkeBoy saying that he paid Us$200 all night for a nice UA MILF in Amman Joradn.

Rates of US$ 300 and US$400 are a waste of money in Kiev. To be spent on fucking jaded girls.

Xavisi
08-18-12, 12:56
For some reason this forum changes my short hand for elenasmodels (EM) to them. How odd.
There are indeed quite a few hard core scammers on them but they are fairly easy to spot and avoid.

The british guy who got killed met his bride on them..

Soon will inform about girls of anastasiadate; I think that all are scammers, my girlfriend are this site, of course was scammed.

PedroToronja
08-18-12, 14:33
There are many layers to Kiev beyond the Strict P4P. One of the best at present are the young semi pros. In my case I mix and match between the 2 above, if the looks and price is right. But I never do any dating there. Simply not interested. And secondly I am only interested in the age group 18/25.

Having relegated my first young hot semi pro to a (Mutual friend with benefits atatus) , she is now one of the circle who does the scouting and the referrals for me.

Climaxnow was right about getting a pyramid scheme (Females) there. But it would get Fucked up if other men get on it.

Best way to get a girl is another girl who is in her social group, and not just in Kiev.

Keep your fingers crossed that The Ukraine will never join the EU. Its a sure way of killing the semi pro scene there, much in the same way with every EE country that joined the Europian Union From Poland To Latvia.Word of mouth, or another girl advertising your great attributes, is by far the most effective way I know to get lucky. It is great you have that friend, I envy you. Not having that, what I have done is create a profile of a (non-existing) girl and have her contact other girls to be the 'private personal assistant' of her 'boss', a job that includes sleeping together. Of course this personal assistant made very good references to the 'boss' 'she' will be sharing with the new one. It worked about half the times. The girl being contacted knows the 'job' includes sex, so there are no false pretenses or con. Money also exchanged hands, but I did get the class of girl that will sleep with one guy for money (especially with extra points for being such a great lover, as per the 'current personal assistant') , but will not be officially a WG, or would want to sleep with a new guy each day, etc. There are many such as it is not uncommon that office girls sleep with their bosses in that corner of the world, as an old tradition from Soviet times. Anyway, the girl is told she will sleep with the guy, she will get money and it is not perceived as prostitituion in that corner of the world. Everybody wins! It is a lot of work, but I promise you, it paid up several times over.

Wildout
08-19-12, 00:14
Hey guys,

So I've been having a strange chat with one of these hotties from Mamba. At the end of some of her chats, she would say something like 'soderganka'. And my translator just spits it back out verbatim. So I kept replying with confusion and asking her to clarify what she's talking about. Eventually, I got to the point where I said fuck it, I'm throwing her in the ignore pile. But then something clicked. I did a search for that word and it turns out she was trying to tell about another website. Upon further inspection, this site seems to be more like a deliciously graphic Craigslist NSA section, only in Ukrainian. Here's the site: soderganka. Su

She could be trying to lead me to some sort of adult pay site that somehow benefits her, but my optimistic side can't help but wonder; what if I've stumbled across a local gold mine. I figure, where better to report on this matter and get some expert input than ISG. This website doesn't have an English version, and my Ukrainian is very limited. Copy & Paste has been my friend.

I'm about to create an account on there and attempt to give myself away like the old lady at your grocery store giving away cheese samples on Sunday afternoons.

Have at it boys!

Wild, out.

Amunra
08-19-12, 07:24
To Stevie69

You got 25 contact from Elenas really! I am a gold member there and I have send a lot of expression of interest and massages to women, but the positive answer was very low, if I have send like 60 expression of interest I have received only 5 who were interested back. And tried to contact girls in my age range of 30, and I have photo and every things how it should be, so I am thinking that am getting such negative response because I do not like me, or not. Do you mind to share with me how you manage to get such positive response, is there is anything that I can do? Because I can't imagine what else I can do because at first you send EOI and if they do not return there interest there is nothing to do!

Amunra.


It works fine, but you can easily use Mamba also, or instead. At Elena's models you get more "serious" girls, looking for marriage but also a few scammers. I figure that even if I am seriously looking for a wife, it starts with physical attraction and physical interaction (sex) , so I am not being too disingenuous. If they are beautiful, smart and good in bed, then I am open to a long-term relationship, in theory. I usually sign up several month in advance of a trip to Kiev or Moscow, and work the site. I figured it is best to got for gold and get the higher level 6 month membership (200 USD) instead of the 3 months one (100 USD). With one you get only 50 contacts, with the other and unlimited number of contacts, so you do not have to count, or weigh whether a girl is worth using up one of your 50 contacts.

After a while it gets complicated and you have to be organized to keep track of who is who. Last time I went to Kiev I had about 25 real contacts, and twice as many in other cities. I was talking regularly on skype with about 5 from Kiev, and they were all "happy to see me" in person. Of the others, some I could not communicate, some just wanted a good time (which was okay with me) and some just did not feel the "chemistry", which is also fine. I would say that strategy does not work if you are only staying for a few days, unless you are only seeing a few girls. I spent 2 weeks, (3 weekends) , going to the south (Dnipro / Zapo / kherson / Niko / Odessa) and the east (kharkov / donetstk) during the weekdays.

It is definitely nicer to visit one of these smaller cities if you have someone to show you around. In the smaller cities I met 2-3 girls in each; my strategy was if they put put on the first night, I stayed a second one, if not, I got some professional help and moved on the next day. My range was from 21 to 36, all beautiful.

One thing is for sure, if there is a little chemistry, and the girl thinks that you are being honest (and like I said, I was, even if I an still single, and here) , she will definitely give you everything in the bedroom.

Uke Boy
08-19-12, 12:45
Hey guys,

So I've been having a strange chat with one of these hotties from Mamba. At the end of some of her chats, she would say something like 'soderganka'. And my translator just spits it back out verbatim. So I kept replying with confusion and asking her to clarify what she's talking about. Eventually, I got to the point where I said fuck it, I'm throwing her in the ignore pile. But then something clicked. I did a search for that word and it turns out she was trying to tell about another website. Upon further inspection, this site seems to be more like a deliciously graphic Craigslist NSA section, only in Ukrainian. Here's the site: soderganka. Su

She could be trying to lead me to some sort of adult pay site that somehow benefits her, but my optimistic side can't help but wonder; what if I've stumbled across a local gold mine. I figure, where better to report on this matter and get some expert input than ISG. This website doesn't have an English version, and my Ukrainian is very limited. Copy & Paste has been my friend.

I'm about to create an account on there and attempt to give myself away like the old lady at your grocery store giving away cheese samples on Sunday afternoons.

Have at it boys!

Wild, out.There is not a whole lot of information on this site. That alone, for a sex site, should be a red flag.

There was one mention of it on a site that answers questions about doubtful sites and sonderganka was named. What they seem to do is ask you, like mamba, for your phone number for confirmation. However, unlike mamba what you may find is that you have innocently authorized a premium rate service to sign you up as a subscriber adding huge amounts of charges to your phone bill.

However, if you want to be brave enough to try it, by all means do so and then let us know! I have a feeling you will have wished that you actually went and met that old lady at the grocery store in the flesh. It would be cheaper and better.

Cruiser D
08-19-12, 15:20
I was using anastasia when I first got in the FSU dating scene. Huge waste of money, mostly form letters.

But then again my dating style is rather unique. I'm never one to target 1, 2.5 or 10 girls when I can meet 50. If you have one or two girls you like get there mobile number as soon as possible. Even if you have to do that phone chat thing, my buddy did that with some success.

I found elenasmodels to be the best of the FSU dating sites. I like their pay structure where if you go with the platinum membership for $200 (or whatever it is) you can email ever girl on the site if you want to. From the compliants of my friends it would seem you have to be 45 and under to have good success on there.


.

Soon will inform about girls of anastasiadate; I think that all are scammers, my girlfriend are this site, of course was scammed.

Cruiser D
08-19-12, 15:24
How do you do that without being fluent in Russian?

Why not get a real personel assistant and do it for real?

Kinda seems like you are scamming the girls if they are looking for an ongoing arrangement (sleeping with the boss) and you are doing a hit and run.


Word of mouth, or another girl advertising your great attributes, is by far the most effective way I know to get lucky. It is great you have that friend, I envy you. Not having that, what I have done is create a profile of a (non-existing) girl and have her contact other girls to be the 'private personal assistant' of her 'boss', a job that includes sleeping together. Of course this personal assistant made very good references to the 'boss' 'she' will be sharing with the new one. It worked about half the times. The girl being contacted knows the 'job' includes sex, so there are no false pretenses or con. Money also exchanged hands, but I did get the class of girl that will sleep with one guy for money (especially with extra points for being such a great lover, as per the 'current personal assistant') , but will not be officially a WG, or would want to sleep with a new guy each day, etc. There are many such as it is not uncommon that office girls sleep with their bosses in that corner of the world, as an old tradition from Soviet times. Anyway, the girl is told she will sleep with the guy, she will get money and it is not perceived as prostitituion in that corner of the world. Everybody wins! It is a lot of work, but I promise you, it paid up several times over.

Cruiser D
08-19-12, 15:30
When you are talking to a 'girl' on a site and she tries to direct you to another site it's only a scam 99. 9% of the time.


There is not a whole lot of information on this site. That alone, for a sex site, should be a red flag.

There was one mention of it on a site that answers questions about doubtful sites and sonderganka was named. What they seem to do is ask you, like mamba, for your phone number for confirmation. However, unlike mamba what you may find is that you have innocently authorized a premium rate service to sign you up as a subscriber adding huge amounts of charges to your phone bill.

However, if you want to be brave enough to try it, by all means do so and then let us know! I have a feeling you will have wished that you actually went and met that old lady at the grocery store in the flesh. It would be cheaper and better.

WantToHaveFun
08-19-12, 19:24
First post here. Just got back so its going to be quick and more like bullet points.

Not a lot of women or people here in general. I guess they are all away on vacation.

D'Lux has anywhere between 5 to 20 WG none of which seemed to be worth $300. On the way back alone I talked to the cab driver named Sergey. Very useful chap. He called his "friend" who I actually saw there and she came over for $120 some of which I assume went to him. Not a bad discount for 1 little phone call in Russian. She was great for $120 but would have been lame for $300. Not sure its OK to put his number here.

The next day I called him and for $25 he drove me around for 30-40 minutes to show me the scene. The highlight was a visit to apartments where there are 3-8 women that you can take back to the hotel for $100. Most of them were 6-8 but I passed. I just didn't feel comfortable with that situation and theirs. Rather pay more to a girl that does it for her own profession or as a supplement where the girls in the apartments I was just wondering and didn't want to be part of that.

Went to the bar in the Intercontinental for a drink. 11th floor and nice view. Met the most beautiful woman I ever did. Of course a matter of personal taste. Kind of a Dana Delany 30 years ago and just prettier. Her English wasn't great or I would have married her right there. After all the church is right across the street. Ended up asking me for 500 Euro and I passed. Still thinking about her though. .

Went to Roksolana erotic massage. Spent an amazing hour with Lisa (I think.). Best $50 I ever spent.

A few more stories but not as interesting. All in all it is a place that you can get amazing women for considerable money or regular ones for cheap. To get the amazing ones on the cheap is too much work or ability to speak the language. Not a "destination" if that is all you are looking for.

Nothing beats a good FKK.

Best to all.

PedroToronja
08-19-12, 21:24
When you are talking to a 'girl' on a site and she tries to direct you to another site it's only a scam 99. 9% of the time.It does ask you for your phone number, and then: "Send an SMS to number 97605 with text RRR 9051329406" to confirm your age. Is very weird.

IveyP
08-20-12, 06:55
Hi,

I will be visiting Kiev for the first time on September. I have made first a research and found sites like mamba. Ru (I have contacted several pros / semi, alellegdly with fake pics most of them) and top-modals. Com and then I ended up here.

I hope this thread can help and will be reading it carefully. Any help is, of course, very welcome. This thread seems to be very long.

I will review my experiences once in Kiev and before.

Thanks

Wildout
08-20-12, 14:01
Thanks for the feedback.

I'm stuck at the SMS verification part as well, so I can't really test out the site. If it was a professional / official site like Mamba (which I'm a verified member of) I could at least write a message to customer support to ask for a different method of authentication since I'm currently overseas.

Tomux 22
08-20-12, 18:25
I have never tried sites where you pay to women for talking with you (pay per letter). Even its an old news I think people should know that lots of girls on sites like that are poor students handling 10 different profiles at time and gets pay few grivnas per letter while doing that.

How do I know. Talking to a 21 yo student from Kiev and its her part time job and she told me exactly this. Yes some girls on sites want to meet and go on date. And yes company pays 300 grivnas. Etc. For that girl to go on date with you.

IveyP
08-20-12, 18:35
As I told in muy first post, I've been a VIP user at Mamba for the last month prior to find this forum. Using common sense I've been researching and contacting girls who had suspiciously sexy pics and high reply rates and I have now a list of 20 or more girls who are willing to meet (discarding that ones with obvious fake pics) for a range of 600. 1000 UAH.

I will arrive to Kiev on September 6 and I will share my experience there. Till that date I would like to share and compare my "database" with whoever in the same situation or with previous experience with Mamba girls.

As long as I don't know if I can share links on posts (this is just my second one) anyone interested can PM me. I will check if links are allowed and post here some of my links to verify if someone knows something.

Gentleman Travel
08-20-12, 21:02
Still meeting a gem or two from them but my action there is not like it was a few years ago when if there was a hot girl on them and from Kiev I had dated her. I tend to pull most of my dates off of Mamba now with the occasional public pick up.

Do you think Valeria is still around? .No, I contacted her last time I went to Kiev, but she was living in Paris, I assume with some patron.

But as you observed earlier, she was not really worth repeating.

I just feel bad that I did not fully exploit her the way she wanted! .

Reading the comments here, I think I will give Elena's a miss this time.

I am already using mamba, LL and another site. At some point you need to focus.

LilJoey
08-20-12, 21:55
As I told in muy first post, I've been a VIP user at Mamba for the last month prior to find this forum. Using common sense I've been researching and contacting girls who had suspiciously sexy pics and high reply rates and I have now a list of 20 or more girls who are willing to meet (discarding that ones with obvious fake pics) for a range of 600. 1000 UAH.

I will arrive to Kiev on September 6 and I will share my experience there. Till that date I would like to share and compare my "database" with whoever in the same situation or with previous experience with Mamba girls.

As long as I don't know if I can share links on posts (this is just my second one) anyone interested can PM me. I will check if links are allowed and post here some of my links to verify if someone knows something.Dear IveyP,

It seems you are developing your own approach to using mamba. Have you gleaned any advice for this from researching prior posts on this thread, or are you basically trying to re-invent the wheel on your own. I'm curious to understand your thinking and the criteria you are using to select candidates to try meeting with. I've also been engaged in doing the same type of mamba research in preparation for my own upcoming trip to Kiev, so I thought it might be helpful to you to exchange some thoughts.

Firstly, I wanted to ask you why you felt it was worth it to be a VIP member on mamba. Ru and has it paid off as to your expectations? I have been using mamba without being a VIP user or expending any money whatsoever in the various ways possible on the mamba site, but have still gotten many responses from P4P girls or agencies. What advantages to you see to VIP membership and additional expenses paid on mamba?

Second, just to understand goals. I was looking to identify P4p girls or agencies where any meeting that might be agreed to would be understood by the parties to involve sex and the exchange of money for "sponsorship". I was also open to meetings with semi pro type girls who might want a regular restaurant or bar type 1st date to discuss things, size each other up, and decide upon the next step, namely, if to go forward with a p4p laison, or not, but I was not interested in regular dating which might take more than one date to "close", simply because I didn't have that kind of time in Kiev in a short 3 night weekend visit. So I wanted to exclude from my pool of possibles, those girls who couldn't quickly or immediately become a p4p date. I was completely uninterested in whether the pictures in the ads were fake or were true, because I don't think I could know which pictures were true, and I assume that many photos are fake. However, when I reviewed the photos of each profile, and I noticed there was one or two photos of a decidedly less attractive girl mixed in to a lot of other photos of a prettier girl, I made the assumption that the girl was using fake pics, but in order to be able to say she used true pics, she included one picture at least that was true, that you could have looked at and known from her profile. So if that one photo was not attractive to me, I did use it to eliminate that girl from consideration on these assumptions. In general, I am hopeful that the girl who will show up will be as attractive as the girl in the photo, but I am prepared for the eventuality of a fake picture, as I can simply not agree to go forward with the date based on the discrepancy of the girl's actual appearance from the pretty pictures I saw on mamba. Most of the pictures I have been seeing on mamba pay for play profiles look like they could be true more recently. I didn't see so many of the obviously too good to be true type of pictures like one sees on other websites. I have in mind that in recent months there have been protestations by some members that the mamba girls they have met have predominantly used true pics. Could it be that mamba has been cleaning up the fake profiles? It's doubtful because you still see that many of the profiles you select as possible dates a month or so before your trip will become deleted profiles before your trip, which is a sure sign of an agency or a faker. Also a number of those members were specifically looking more for regular girls, and we're trying to stay away from p4p girls, which is the exact opposite of my own goals, and of course regular girls would naturally post true pictures. So I tend to believe that the p4p girls, and certainly the agencies ate using fake pics. I've noticed exact similarities in the language of initial replies from disparate girls, indicating a common control, in other words that all were from one agency or girl apartment. Likewise I've noticed some profiles are always "online" at the same time, indicating they are probably being operated by a single agency manager or phone girl.

Currently, the "What I am Looking For" section of the girls' profiles provides for the categories of "Friendship","Relationship / Dating" and "Travel". There are no longer listings stating "offers sex for money" or "looking for fun". However, some profiles state in various other parts of the profile some indication that the girl is looking for a "sponsor" or other indication of p4p dating. But most often there is no statement indicating the girl is p4p. However, a young girl looking for men also in age ranges much older than herself, like looking for men up to age 50 pr age 60, is a sign that it is not regular dating, but rather p4p dating. I don't respond to profiles where the maximum age the girl in her early 20's is looking for is a man age 35, and she has no other indicator that she might be p4p. However, if she says she is looking for a man up to age 40, I would respond. My reason is that a regular girl looking for regular dating, who is in her 20's, and says she would date a guy up to age 35, probably means that, and my age is too far a stretch above that. Whereas, if she says she is looking for a man up to age 40, I would presume she could stretch that to a guy age 44, and she may be a semi pro worth dating.

I'm a bit curious about the criteria you listed you were using. Could you explain your thinking more? You wrote that you were looking for profiles with "suspiciously sexy pictures" and "high reply rates" with prices between 600 UAH to 1000 UAH, and that you were discarding "obviously fake pics". Now I think we all understand that "high reply rates" is an indicator that it is a p4p escort agency and not a regular girl. So from this I understand that you were looking for a criteria to identify the agencies and girl apartments providing p4p at a reasonably low price in Kiev with ads on mamba. What I'm not clear on is the meaning of "suspiciously sexy pictures" and what it indicates to you, and how it differs from "obviously fake pics"? Could you explain more?

LJ

Climaxnow
08-20-12, 22:36
Does anybody have a ballpark estimate of what per cent of college age prostitutes working Mamba operate independent, as opposed to an agency?

PedroToronja
08-20-12, 23:58
No, I contacted her last time I went to Kiev, but she was living in Paris, I assume with some patron.

But as you observed earlier, she was not really worth repeating.

I just feel bad that I did not fully exploit her the way she wanted! .

Reading the comments here, I think I will give Elena's a miss this time.

I am already using mamba, LL and another site. At some point you need to focus.Gent, what is LL?

PedroToronja
08-21-12, 00:03
As I told in muy first post, I've been a VIP user at Mamba for the last month prior to find this forum. Using common sense I've been researching and contacting girls who had suspiciously sexy pics and high reply rates and I have now a list of 20 or more girls who are willing to meet (discarding that ones with obvious fake pics) for a range of 600. 1000 UAH.

I will arrive to Kiev on September 6 and I will share my experience there. Till that date I would like to share and compare my "database" with whoever in the same situation or with previous experience with Mamba girls.

As long as I don't know if I can share links on posts (this is just my second one) anyone interested can PM me. I will check if links are allowed and post here some of my links to verify if someone knows something.Yes, I have quite a collection from Mamba myself and 'visited' with a few. I would upgrade here, but I have to provide my real name, etc. And I am a married man and quite well known in my business. Too risky.

In Mamba you will find a girl that translates into Genika (weird name) she is 18. She will fuck the shit out of you, in a good way! She is fun, happy, pretty, slim and the ass is in the menu. One hundred dollars. I say she is a 7 1/2. Many girls I met in Mamba are not showing now on my search, but I will keep looking.

DoctorOral
08-21-12, 14:37
Sorry that I asked. Why is that important?

I would guess 20. From my point of view, it is worth tracking those 20% down and get their numbers.

If I would say 40, would that change a thing? Again, it is rare to find diamonds on the beach. You might need to do some digging!

Almost like the real life, I say!


Does anybody have a ballpark estimate of what per cent of college age prostitutes working Mamba operate independent, as opposed to an agency?

PedroToronja
08-21-12, 17:49
First post here. Just got back so its going to be quick and more like bullet points.

Not a lot of women or people here in general. I guess they are all away on vacation.

D'Lux has anywhere between 5 to 20 WG none of which seemed to be worth $300. On the way back alone I talked to the cab driver named Sergey. Very useful chap. He called his "friend" who I actually saw there and she came over for $120 some of which I assume went to him. Not a bad discount for 1 little phone call in Russian. She was great for $120 but would have been lame for $300. Not sure its OK to put his number here.

The next day I called him and for $25 he drove me around for 30-40 minutes to show me the scene. The highlight was a visit to apartments where there are 3-8 women that you can take back to the hotel for $100. Most of them were 6-8 but I passed. I just didn't feel comfortable with that situation and theirs. Rather pay more to a girl that does it for her own profession or as a supplement where the girls in the apartments I was just wondering and didn't want to be part of that.

Went to the bar in the Intercontinental for a drink. 11th floor and nice view. Met the most beautiful woman I ever did. Of course a matter of personal taste. Kind of a Dana Delany 30 years ago and just prettier. Her English wasn't great or I would have married her right there. After all the church is right across the street. Ended up asking me for 500 Euro and I passed. Still thinking about her though. .

Went to Roksolana erotic massage. Spent an amazing hour with Lisa (I think.). Best $50 I ever spent.

A few more stories but not as interesting. All in all it is a place that you can get amazing women for considerable money or regular ones for cheap. To get the amazing ones on the cheap is too much work or ability to speak the language. Not a "destination" if that is all you are looking for.

Nothing beats a good FKK.

Best to all.Thank you WTHF, that was great report! Yes, I was also taken by taxi to those famous apartments and they are pathetic, it looks too close to slave labor or trafficking, I did not like it and did not take a girl out either. The Madam is there like an angry guardian, is creepy. As for the massage, I guess it is a great JB, no? What can you do to her? I imagine she is naked? Never tried. The taxi driver would probably be glad you sent him over some more business, so if you don't mind, share his phone number here, I don't think it is frown upon. One more question, I googled it and could not find what FKK means. Can you tell me please?

I will try the 11th floor of the Intercontinental and I pray that the girl you saw will be there that night. What time was it? Day of week? If I find her, you will get a full report here.

Climaxnow
08-21-12, 18:33
Somebody initially quoted me on Mamba 100 why. E an hour. I asked if she meant American dollar and she said yes. I communicate everything in Russian. Does why. E really mean American dollar or was this a setup to ask for euro's?

This thread is changing my written form. What does the letter y followed by period and then the letter e stand for?

Timmy011
08-21-12, 18:59
Somebody initially quoted me on Mamba 100 why. E an hour. I asked if she meant American dollar and she said yes. I communicate everything in Russian. Does why. E really mean American dollar or was this a setup to ask for euro's?

This thread is changing my written form. What does the letter why followed by period and then the letter e stand for?E means $, USA dollars, that is the answer what I get from multiple ladies who I have been contacting. But you can always ask her to confirm. In Kiev they use much more American currency then Euro. And they sometimes also use term "poltor casa", which means . Hour and half (I was having problem to understand that also, since it was sound to me more like "half and hour").

Uke Boy
08-21-12, 20:24
Somebody initially quoted me on Mamba 100 why. E an hour. I asked if she meant American dollar and she said yes. I communicate everything in Russian. Does why. E really mean American dollar or was this a setup to ask for euro's?

This thread is changing my written form. What does the letter why followed by period and then the letter e stand for?The "YE" was a widely used term used in Ukraine and Russia especially before the currencies stabilized. It most often used as stand-in for dollars rather than grivnas or rubles, especially true when the exchange rate fluctuated wildly or when people did not trust the local currency. In Russian, it is written as "Условная Единица" (trans: Conventional Unit) so you can see where the "YE" comes from. It most often means dollars and only rarely does it mean euro. Nothing to worry about when you are quoted such prices using these terms. The use of "YE" has made a small comeback in Ukraine.

As for the change in written form, this is an issue with Jackson's software which also is a problem for those of us who can write in Russian or other non-Latin languages.

Climaxnow
08-21-12, 20:57
The "YE" was a widely used term used in Ukraine and Russia especially before the currencies stabilized. It most often used as stand-in for dollars rather than grivnas or rubles, especially true when the exchange rate fluctuated wildly or when people did not trust the local currency. In Russian, it is written as "&1059; &1089; &1083; &1086; &1074; &1085; &1072; &1103; &1045; &1076; &1080; &1085; &1080; &1094; &1072;" (trans: Conventional Unit) so you can see where the "YE" comes from. It most often means dollars and only rarely does it mean euro. Nothing to worry about when you are quoted such prices using these terms. The use of "YE" has made a small comeback in Ukraine.

As for the change in written form, this is an issue with Jackson's software which also is a problem for those of us who can write in Russian or other non-Latin languages.Thanks UB!

BlancoVikingo
08-22-12, 00:51
Hello guys.

I have been member of Latinamerican, Colombian and Brasil-Cupid.

Since a week I'm member on UkraineDate. Com.

On the Latinamerican sites there are of course a lot of prepagos or semi, but also goodlooking serious females. It's a mix.

On UkrianeDate. Com I get interest from girls 8-10, some of them stunning. They are mostly in their late 20th or early 30th, doesn't have children, but want to have.

I have never been on a FSU-site that where serious. They are hopeless.

On Tha Latin-Cupid sites I actually meet the girls, I get their phonenumber and can watch them on webcam. Their interest was aall from sex for money to cecoming friends, having fun and in a few cases, they really wanted marriage. A mix, which is to be expected.

But FSU. It seems hopeless.

I will go to Kiev, but getting female friends on th FSU-sites that can give me usefull info, meeting for a coffee or a beer, still seems like it never will happen. But then I must study their language etc. So aft are a years from now, maybe having been there 2-3 months totally, then I might have figured out how to meet goodlooking girls in FSU.

Wildout
08-22-12, 03:31
Yes, I have quite a collection from Mamba myself and 'visited' with a few. I would upgrade here, but I have to provide my real name, etc. And I am a married man and quite well known in my business. Too risky.

In Mamba you will find a girl that translates into Genika (weird name) she is 18. She will fuck the shit out of you, in a good way! She is fun, happy, pretty, slim and the ass is in the menu. One hundred dollars. I say she is a 7 1/2. Many girls I met in Mamba are not showing now on my search, but I will keep looking.Pedro,

Is her name written in Russian / Ukranian? Or is it written as you say "Genika"?

She sounds right up my alley, and I would like to test drive when I get there.

Thanks in advance for sharing.

Wild

IveyP
08-22-12, 07:21
In Mamba you will find a girl that translates into Genika (weird name) she is 18. She will fuck the shit out of you, in a good way! She is fun, happy, pretty, slim and the ass is in the menu. One hundred dollars. I say she is a 7 1/2. Many girls I met in Mamba are not showing now on my search, but I will keep looking.Thanks Pedro. Can you provide al least Genika url I'd (a nine figures number you can find fro example here marked bold http://XXXXXX.XX/XXXXXX.phtml?oid=718938194&hit=10&fromsearch&sp=0).

Hectorgonz
08-22-12, 09:54
Other than kievapartments. Com are there any other suggestions on getting an apartment? And do most hotels now have issues with bringing back a girl?

SalbatorXXX
08-22-12, 11:56
Hi all.

This is my first post and I must already apologize for my english as I'm french (nobody's perfect!)

I've been twice to Kiev : nov 2011 and April 2012.

I've been to lots of eastern europe capital (Prague, Bucharest, Budapest.) but Kiev is by far the best experience on my side.

It's outside the Euro zone so cheaper and inside Shengen so I don't need a visa.

In April I've noticed that prices had already increased probably due to the Euro2012 event.

Cab drivers who were very happy to drive you anywhere inside the center for 50 UAH were asking 80 UAH. Restaurants were more expensive.

I'm planning to go next week to Kiev and I'd like to know if prices have increased a lot due to the Euro2012?

For example, it costed 250$ for 3h to bring home a stunning dancer from Rio and you could find beautiful "independent" girls at buddha bar or D'Lux for about the same price.

Is Rio still the best strip club in Kiev? I've never tried any other one as it was very central and with an almost unlimited choice of girls.

Plus, after reading several posts on this forum, I figured the deal was pretty clear.

For quick & cheap relaxing time before going out, I'll probably book girls at sexkiev. Net top-modals. Com.

You just have to know that all pictures are fake and it's only a matter of liking the girl who shows up or sending her back in a cab.

For 600UAH."you get what you pay for"

I also like to meet girls on mamba and travelgirls as I like to mix pro, semi-pros and newbies / students

Any advice appreciated!

Thanks

DoctorOral
08-22-12, 12:39
Pedros idea is nice. But you cannot be PM-nd. That is bad! I do have some (verified) Mamba contacts to exchange, and you can PM me if you want. I do still look for that teenage, blonde, flat, no-titted deepthroat-CIM-queen. Too much to ask for, I know!


Thanks Pedro. Can you provide al least Genika url I'd (a nine figures number you can find fro example here marked bold.

http://XXXXXX.XX/XXXXXX.phtml?oid=

718938194&hit=10&fromsearch&sp=0).

Letto
08-22-12, 12:46
I haven't been on mamba ru for a long time but I noticed there is less search filters now. Like you can't search for a sponsor etc. Does anyone know what happend or if possible to enable theese again?

Tomux 22
08-22-12, 12:48
[QUOTE=BlancoVikingo; 1318139]Hello guys.

I have been member of Latinamerican, Colombian and Brasil-Cupid.

Since a week I'm member on UkraineDate. Com.

On the Latinamerican sites there are of course a lot of prepagos or semi, but also goodlooking serious females. It's a mix.

On UkrianeDate. Com I get interest from girls 8-10, some of them stunning. They are mostly in their late 20th or early 30th, doesn't have children, but want to have.

I have never been on a FSU-site that where serious. They are hopeless.

On Tha Latin-Cupid sites I actually meet the girls, I get their phonenumber and can watch them on webcam. Their interest was aall from sex for money to cecoming friends, having fun and in a few cases, they really wanted marriage. A mix, which is to be expected.

But FSU. It seems hopeless.

First I will say that cupid sites both ukr / rus is one of my favorite sites for meeting normal girls. There is no guarantee for sex and it takes a lot of time. But reward you get can be great. I had four great relations with women from Russian cupid last two years. Yes there is a lot of scammers on this site. Stunning model looking girls do know they price in FSU maybe even better then women I western Europe. I don't even know how stupid one need to be to believe that a model looking girl will show you interest and write you a longer letter then two sentences without being a scammer. This is not thailand you want beautiful and classy it dose have a price. There is 100`s of men writing to these girls and you need to show her why you are better for her then others. I normally do opposite of what most men do, don't start acquaintance with cam propositions and have non aggressive approach while still showing interest to a girl. With some it dose work great, with others not. But in general this dose give me results. Only a pity it takes time, but only option for me since I can't travel to FSU for long term stay and date women direct. Lucky ones are that live/work in FSU since they meet women in everydaylife and non tourist places since am sure it gives best results and save you a lot of money.

Cruiser D
08-22-12, 14:19
Don't post links to girls on here, unless you never want to talk to them again.

Someone will email her telling her that you posted her link on this site. If she is a hard core pro she might appreaciate the business, otherwise.


Thanks Pedro. Can you provide al least Genika url I'd (a nine figures number you can find fro example here marked bold.

http://XXXXXX.XX/XXXXXX.phtml?oid=

718938194&hit=10&fromsearch&sp=0).

BlancoVikingo
08-22-12, 14:21
I will follow your advice where patience is the keyword / action.

I will go to Ucariane and study their language. I will lilve at a Hostel, I've found e few that costs €9/$12. If I stay for six m'weeks at a time, I will have the time to evaluate both serious girls, and maybe, after finding some local oexpats friends, trying a club.

My point was that FSU-sites are so obviuos scams, maybe with exception from the 2 Cupid sites, that it get rediculous. Supermodels 22 why-o wants to meet men +45. If scamming, do it with intelligence. Of thousands of not millions single sexually frustrated men really get something out if this? I think we pay, let'say $100-300 until we are finished dreaming and wake up. According to a survey more than 95% never go to Russia, we / them just use it a kind of romantic dream / soft-porno.

Well. I will take it easy, with low expectations. Maybe I can meet a beauty, and create soemthing serious with her.

Using taxi's, drunk in the middle of the night is a risky thing. And as many reports, the 8-10 girls askes for sums like $300-€500 for a night.

This is very much since the average salary for a normal work is 20-40, 000 UAH / year. Maybe a secretary, with education makes $500 US a months.




[QUOTE=BlancoVikingo; 1318139]Hello guys.

I have been member of Latinamerican, Colombian and Brasil-Cupid.

Since a week I'm member on UkraineDate. Com.

On the Latinamerican sites there are of course a lot of prepagos or semi, but also goodlooking serious females. It's a mix.

On UkrianeDate. Com I get interest from girls 8-10, some of them stunning. They are mostly in their late 20th or early 30th, doesn't have children, but want to have.

I have never been on a FSU-site that where serious. They are hopeless.

On Tha Latin-Cupid sites I actually meet the girls, I get their phonenumber and can watch them on webcam. Their interest was aall from sex for money to cecoming friends, having fun and in a few cases, they really wanted marriage. A mix, which is to be expected.

But FSU. It seems hopeless.

First I will say that cupid sites both ukr / rus is one of my favorite sites for meeting normal girls. There is no guarantee for sex and it takes a lot of time. But reward you get can be great. I had four great relations with women from Russian cupid last two years. Yes there is a lot of scammers on this site. Stunning model looking girls do know they price in FSU maybe even better then women I western Europe. I don't even know how stupid one need to be to believe that a model looking girl will show you interest and write you a longer letter then two sentences without being a scammer. This is not Thailand you want beautiful and classy it dose have a price. There is 100`s of men writing to these girls and you need to show her why you are better for her then others. I normally do opposite of what most men do, don't start acquaintance with cam propositions and have non aggressive approach while still showing interest to a girl. With some it dose work great, with others not. But in general this dose give me results. Only a pity it takes time, but only option for me since I can't travel to FSU for long term stay and date women direct. Lucky ones are that live / work in FSU since they meet women in everydaylife and non tourist places since am sure it gives best results and save you a lot of money.

Cruiser D
08-22-12, 14:22
Will be in Kiev starting this Friday. Bask in the awesomeness. No autographs please.




Wastin away again in Kyiv-margaritaville.

Searching for my lost hot blondinka or three.

Some people claim that there's a woman to blame.

But I know it's my own damn fault

YellowPaul
08-22-12, 14:27
Have anybody used Aerosvit Airlines? I getting a good deal and it's a direct flight from Toronto but the reviews on line for this airline have been pretty bad and it's making wonder if I should spend more for a major carrier.

Has anybody done the YYZ- KBP route recently?

P

Gentleman Travel
08-22-12, 14:40
Gent, what is LL?LuckyLovers.net, it used to be a really good East-West dating site, with a very high ratio of girls with pretty good English and a low ratio of scammers. It also had discussion forums that allowed you to learn a bit about the girls real interests and opinions, but that part has withered. So I am not sure if it is as good as it used to be, and the volumes are much lower than on other sites like mamba. It also has a "Travel Together" section like mamba. So I am giving it another try and will let folks know if it generates any real life contacts.

Cruiser, it looks like we will miss connecting this time. I am arriving in Kiev late October for a couple of weeks. But happy to meet up with anyone else around at that time.

Jojosun
08-22-12, 18:15
Hi all.

This is my first post and I must already apologize for my english as I'm french (nobody's perfect!)

I've been twice to Kiev : nov 2011 and April 2012.

I've been to lots of eastern europe capital (Prague, Bucharest, Budapest.) but Kiev is by far the best experience on my side.

It's outside the Euro zone so cheaper and inside Shengen so I don't need a visa.

In April I've noticed that prices had already increased probably due to the Euro2012 event.

Cab drivers who were very happy to drive you anywhere inside the center for 50 UAH were asking 80 UAH. Restaurants were more expensive.

I'm planning to go next week to Kiev and I'd like to know if prices have increased a lot due to the Euro2012?

For example, it costed 250$ for 3h to bring home a stunning dancer from Rio and you could find beautiful "independent" girls at buddha bar or D'Lux for about the same price.

Is Rio still the best strip club in Kiev? I've never tried any other one as it was very central and with an almost unlimited choice of girls.

Plus, after reading several posts on this forum, I figured the deal was pretty clear.

For quick & cheap relaxing time before going out, I'll probably book girls at sexkiev. Net top-modals. Com.

You just have to know that all pictures are fake and it's only a matter of liking the girl who shows up or sending her back in a cab.

For 600UAH."you get what you pay for"

I also like to meet girls on mamba and travelgirls as I like to mix pro, semi-pros and newbies / students

Any advice appreciated!

Thanks.

You say you are French? Yet you don't even know that Ukraine is not in the Schengen visa Scheme. The UK is a member of the EU, but is not in the Schengen Visa Scheme. .

Visa Free to the Ukraine has nothing to do with being in the Schengen Visa Scheme.

US and other citizens of some countries don't need visas as well.

You are on the same Pattern and trend with many other first time posters here,"Who Managed To Get a Stunning Dancer From Rio ". How come we didn't hear from you before on Rio and all your other exploits in EE countries?

You want Advice? Head back to Rio and get hold of more "Stunning Dancers ". .

And Yes "Rio Is Still The Best Strip Club In Kiev ".

That's what you Want to Hear, Right.

BTW, I like your Sense Of Humor. Its almost too perfect For a French Man. LOL.

Jojosun
08-22-12, 18:31
Hi all.

This is my first post and I must already apologize for my english as I'm french (nobody's perfect!)

I've been twice to Kiev : nov 2011 and April 2012.

I've been to lots of eastern europe capital (Prague, Bucharest, Budapest.) but Kiev is by far the best experience on my side.

It's outside the Euro zone so cheaper and inside Shengen so I don't need a visa.

Any advice appreciated!

Thanks.

A bit of Advice on Schengen Countries, since your mind and post is already set on "Rio Club ".

http://www.axa-schengen.com/en/schengen-countries

WantToHaveFun
08-22-12, 18:31
Thank you WTHF, that was great report! Yes, I was also taken by taxi to those famous apartments and they are pathetic, it looks too close to slave labor or trafficking, I did not like it and did not take a girl out either. The Madam is there like an angry guardian, is creepy. As for the massage, I guess it is a great JB, no? What can you do to her? I imagine she is naked? Never tried. The taxi driver would probably be glad you sent him over some more business, so if you don't mind, share his phone number here, I don't think it is frown upon. One more question, I googled it and could not find what FKK means. Can you tell me please?

I will try the 11th floor of the Intercontinental and I pray that the girl you saw will be there that night. What time was it? Day of week? If I find her, you will get a full report here.Sergey is the taxi driver at 097 933-1799. He claims to have 2-3 apartments as well in a very central location but I can't verify. His email is 9331799@ukr.net

In general re taxi use. Its a total fraud. To go say 1-2 KM in the center cost me 50-60 when my hotel called. At some point I just started to use numbers of companies I saw on cabs in the street and the price dropped to 32. 38. Of course if you get out of D'lux at 3am with or without a girl they will ask for 150. That's how I met Sergey after "bargaining" him down to 100. That was before I did the thinking and started calling myself.

To go to the airport my hotel asked for 300. I conversed on-line with Joker taxi and the rate was 156! Here is a link:

http://joker-taxi.kiev.ua/en/?gclid=CNyAy-nd-7ECFSMhtAodDxoAug

And you can see all their numbers there. Nice thing is that they quote you price upfront and send you a text with type of car, color and license plate. My local SIM was 063 and since they have numbers with all "area codes" I called the 063 number and so it didn't even cost me anything to call.

Lisa from the massage place was amazing. I begged and tried to "bribe" her for sex and even asked her to come to my hotel. She refused. ;. (

She was full naked etc etc but just body and hand. She let me touch her everywhere except that "special place down there". U might have better luck with someone else or even with her. Lisa lives 50 miles from Kiev and so she works and stays there 3 days straight and then goes home for 3 days. Again, the whole building, entrance, stairways etc are a total creepy disaster and a bit scary. Inside is ok and they even give you disposable sleepers.

I met my dear lost love Christina at the IC at about midnight I think. Again, she asked for 500 Euro and I passed without trying to bargain her down. Claims to spend the winters in India. I believe that she frequents that place a lot as she and the barman were clearly best buddies.

On a separate note if anyone wants to actually tour the city I (very very) highly recommend the free tours. One at noon and one at 4pm. Each take you to a different part and they last 2. 5 to 3 hours. Best value for the money. And even for your time. Truly covers 90% of what you can ask for and both guides were great. Tip them 50 (or more) and they couldn't be happier. Neither could you. They leave from "Point 0" in Independence square. http://freetours.kiev.ua/

Have a great trip.

WantToHaveFun
08-22-12, 18:37
Thank you WTHF, that was great report! Yes, I was also taken by taxi to those famous apartments and they are pathetic, it looks too close to slave labor or trafficking, I did not like it and did not take a girl out either. The Madam is there like an angry guardian, is creepy. As for the massage, I guess it is a great JB, no? What can you do to her? I imagine she is naked? Never tried. The taxi driver would probably be glad you sent him over some more business, so if you don't mind, share his phone number here, I don't think it is frown upon. One more question, I googled it and could not find what FKK means. Can you tell me please?

I will try the 11th floor of the Intercontinental and I pray that the girl you saw will be there that night. What time was it? Day of week? If I find her, you will get a full report here.I just sent a lot more detailed info. Even though I was logged in it asked me to login again and I am not sure it actually got posted. I see that it "autosaves" every so often. If not can I retrieve it and resend? Anyone?

Gentleman Travel
08-22-12, 18:45
Have anybody used Aerosvit Airlines? I getting a good deal and it's a direct flight from Toronto but the reviews on line for this airline have been pretty bad and it's making wonder if I should spend more for a major carrier.

Has anybody done the YYZ- KBP route recently?

PI haven't, but if you are getting a direct route from YYZ-KBP then go for it! Unless you want the Frankfurt stop-over to visit a FKK!

I am in Toronto occasionally for business and would be happy to share a pint and discuss experiences with you.

GT

TheLurk
08-22-12, 18:47
CD.

If you are sticking around next Monday-Wednesday in Kiev, do you mind if a newbie tags along to see how you.

Operate? Being a tourist the whole time is awefully boring.

Thanks

CallSign Papa
08-22-12, 19:05
Have anybody used Aerosvit Airlines? I getting a good deal and it's a direct flight from Toronto but the reviews on line for this airline have been pretty bad and it's making wonder if I should spend more for a major carrier.

Has anybody done the YYZ- KBP route recently?

PAerosvit are fine. The good points are:

* They serve alcohol and it's not expensive.

* There are usually a few stunners on their way back to the motherland.

* Airfares are cheap.

The bad points:

* They usually always full.

* The planes aren't new (but some aren't too old)

* The stewardesses have all the sex appeal of a soggy cardboard box

CallSign Papa
08-22-12, 19:13
Hi all.

I'm planning to go next week to Kiev and I'd like to know if prices have increased a lot due to the Euro2012?I just got back, prices seemed fairly similar to my last time there in March.


For example, it costed 250$ for 3h to bring home a stunning dancer from Rio and you could find beautiful "independent" girls at buddha bar or D'Lux for about the same price.All depends what night you go, how busy the strip-club / bar is, what your negotiating skills are like, etc. 250 USD is on the low side to pay for a girl from the three places you mention.


Is Rio still the best strip club in Kiev?It stopped being that in 2006.

TheLurk
08-22-12, 20:44
Cruiser.

If you are in Kiev next Monday-Wednesday. Do you mind showing a newbie how an expert work the scene?

Thanks.

Tomux 22
08-22-12, 21:50
I will follow your advice where patience is the keyword / action.

I will go to Ucariane and study their language. I will lilve at a Hostel, I've found e few that costs €9/$12. If I stay for six m'weeks at a time, I will have the time to evaluate both serious girls, and maybe, after finding some local oexpats friends, trying a club.

My point was that FSU-sites are so obviuos scams, maybe with exception from the 2 Cupid sites, that it get rediculous. Supermodels 22 why-o wants to meet men +45. If scamming, do it with intelligence. Of thousands of not millions single sexually frustrated men really get something out if this? I think we pay, let'say $100-300 until we are finished dreaming and wake up. According to a survey more than 95% never go to Russia, we / them just use it a kind of romantic dream / soft-porno.

Well. I will take it easy, with low expectations. Maybe I can meet a beauty, and create soemthing serious with her.

Using taxi's, drunk in the middle of the night is a risky thing. And as many reports, the 8-10 girls askes for sums like $300-€500 for a night.

This is very much since the average salary for a normal work is 20-40, 000 UAH / year. Maybe a secretary, with education makes $500 US a months.

[QUOTE=Tomux 22; 1318321]I am sure you will succeed if you follow your plan and take time to know culture / how women over there think. I don't agree like many say that in Ukr its a disadvantage being a foreigner. In fact when you come into the "circle of trust" for any girl you try to know better it dose play out as a big advantage for you. Life is hard in ukr and most girls dream of happy marriage with serious, secure and a rich / with potential man in young age. If you behave right while you are there your biggest problem will be to don't lose head for one of the girls you meet. I have mentioned about the dating sites in FSU in my previous post and the few things I wrote comes right from the lips of law student that dose this work for dating companeys to earn few grivnas while she study. You are totally right about salary in ukr, even a doctor might make 150 dollars per month in Kiev which barley cover flat expenses. Yes places like Rio etc. Is targeted for stupid tourists (I don't say its something wrong to go there) but with some effort you can meat girls like that and have a perfect GFE instead of paying ridiculous prices. In the end of the day what you get is covered BJ and few pops. As for if its worth it. All depends on time needs etc.

GL in Ukr!

PedroToronja
08-22-12, 22:18
Pedro,

Is her name written in Russian / Ukranian? Or is it written as you say "Genika"?

She sounds right up my alley, and I would like to test drive when I get there.

Thanks in advance for sharing.

WildHttp://mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=775560429&hit=3 Please be nice to her.

Climaxnow
08-22-12, 22:58
[QUOTE=BlancoVikingo; 1318354]I will follow your advice where patience is the keyword / action.

I will go to Ucariane and study their language. I will lilve at a Hostel, I've found e few that costs €9/$12. If I stay for six m'weeks at a time, I will have the time to evaluate both serious girls, and maybe, after finding some local oexpats friends, trying a club.

My point was that FSU-sites are so obviuos scams, maybe with exception from the 2 Cupid sites, that it get rediculous. Supermodels 22 why-o wants to meet men +45. If scamming, do it with intelligence. Of thousands of not millions single sexually frustrated men really get something out if this? I think we pay, let'say $100-300 until we are finished dreaming and wake up. According to a survey more than 95% never go to Russia, we / them just use it a kind of romantic dream / soft-porno.

Well. I will take it easy, with low expectations. Maybe I can meet a beauty, and create soemthing serious with her.

Using taxi's, drunk in the middle of the night is a risky thing. And as many reports, the 8-10 girls askes for sums like $300-€500 for a night.

This is very much since the average salary for a normal work is 20-40, 000 UAH / year. Maybe a secretary, with education makes $500 US a months.

I am sure you will succeed if you follow your plan and take time to know culture / how women over there think. I don't agree like many say that in Ukr its a disadvantage being a foreigner. In fact when you come into the "circle of trust" for any girl you try to know better it dose play out as a big advantage for you. Life is hard in ukr and most girls dream of happy marriage with serious, secure and a rich / with potential man in young age. If you behave right while you are there your biggest problem will be to don't lose head for one of the girls you meet. I have mentioned about the dating sites in FSU in my previous post and the few things I wrote comes right from the lips of law student that dose this work for dating companeys to earn few grivnas while she study. You are totally right about salary in ukr, even a doctor might make 150 dollars per month in Kiev which barley cover flat expenses. Yes places like Rio etc. Is targeted for stupid tourists (I don't say its something wrong to go there) but with some effort you can meat girls like that and have a perfect GFE instead of paying ridiculous prices. In the end of the day what you get is covered BJ and few pops. As for if its worth it. All depends on time needs etc.

GL in Ukr!I have been a member of Mamba for years but only recently uploaded a profile with pictures and some general information. At first I thought it was hopeless, nobody responded to me except straight prostitutes. However, after some almost inflammatory questions, I began to realize that there were tricks to the game to get girls to engage. I will not share my developing secrets but I do suggest keeping everything Russian with a soft connotation of financial support.

PedroToronja
08-22-12, 23:52
Don't post links to girls on here, unless you never want to talk to them again.

Someone will email her telling her that you posted her link on this site. If she is a hard core pro she might appreaciate the business, otherwise.I did post the link already as a courtesy to the guys asking. Anyway, as you can imagine this is not even close to my real name, which BTW she does not know either. I imagine she met more than me, hard as it is to admit it, she was not a virgin LOL. Well, I hope they don't ruin her because she is still fresh and a lot of fun. Actually she seems to enjoy a lot and also laughs a lot. If next time I see her jaded, I know these guys screwed her, not just fucked her, or the other way around whatever is worst. I was showing a little bit of fellowship with my monger comrades (after all, it is the FSU)

PedroToronja
08-22-12, 23:57
Have anybody used Aerosvit Airlines? I getting a good deal and it's a direct flight from Toronto but the reviews on line for this airline have been pretty bad and it's making wonder if I should spend more for a major carrier.

Has anybody done the YYZ- KBP route recently?

PThey use Boeing. The seats are not the best, but is ok overall. When you land, they all applaud. Also, upon landing, get up quick and get on the ail, as people from way back in the plane rush forward for some strange reason, and one will be standing right by your row, making impossible for you to get up, get on the ail, open the overhead bin and get your stuff. Also, carry a face-mask in your travel pouch, many of them do not 'believe' in deodorant and your trip can be very uncomfortable.

LilJoey
08-23-12, 00:41
*

I've been twice to Kiev : nov 2011 and April 2012,

*

I'm planning to go next week to Kiev and I'd like to know if prices have increased a lot due to the Euro2012?

*

For example, it costed 250$ for 3h to bring home a stunning dancer from Rio and you could find beautiful "independent" girls at buddha bar or D'Lux for about the same price.

*

Is Rio still the best strip club in Kiev? I've never tried any other one as it was very central and with an almost unlimited choice of girls.

*

Plus, after reading several posts on this forum, I figured the deal was pretty clear.

*

For quick & cheap relaxing time before going out, I'll probably book girls at sexkiev. Net top-modals. Com.

*

You just have to know that all pictures are fake and it's only a matter of liking the girl who shows up or sending her back in a cab.

*

For 600UAH."you get what you pay for"

*

I also like to meet girls on mamba and travelgirls as I like to mix pro, semi-pros and newbies / students.

*

Any advice appreciated!

*

ThanksDear Salbatorxxx,

*

Since you say you will be in Kiev next week, I'm sure you will find this refresher post summing up the p4p opportunities in Kiev helpful. Here is the link:

*

http://www.InternationalSexGuide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1316208&viewfull=1#post1316208

*

I don't believe prices have been $250/3 hours at Rio for take out, nor at Buddha Bar or D'lux. Rio's basic take out fee has been $300/3hours for as long as I've visited that club since soon after the demise of the River Palace boat at the end of 2010. Similarly, the WG's at Buddha Bar and D'lux are of the higher priced variety who ask in the range of $300 to $500 for only two (2) hours, so the price of $250/3hours that you claim to have gotten at Buddha Bar and D'lux, would have been a very nice bargain if it actually happened, and not likely to recur, and in Rio it would not have been possible. Anyway, regardless of what happened for you in the past, the prices currently at Rio are as I stated, and at Buddha Bar and D'lux too, you will not have the best chance of getting a price below $300/2 hours, and other nightclubs are better suited for getting a lower price.

*

(1) Your approach to getting 600 UAH / hour working girls to your apartment is basically correct, and for this purpose you can use mamba. Ru, top-modals. Com, and a host of other fake picture escort websites with such low prices.

*

(2) I note for you that some veterans have recommended that before turning to the higher priced venues at night like the strip club Rio, or Buddha Bar and D'lux, that it is worth it to give a shot to the other nightclubs like Shooters, Carribean etc, and others mentioned in this thread, to see if you can get a pretty girl for the more medium price of $200/2hours or lower, as this has been reported as possible. So why not try.

*

(3) If you have tried the regular nightclubs for p4p girls at prices of $200/2hours or lower, and it has not happened for you; or if you have made a decision that you don't have sufficient time to spend chasing girls in a regular nightclub; or if you feel that you don't have the good looks or personality or 'game' as they call it, to succeed in the regular nightclub with either freebie girls, or even semi-pro girls; or you don't have sufficient time to spend figuring out which girls in a nightclub are Working Girls with whom you can get a p4p date, or you simply like the sheer quantity of available girls in a strip club environment, then you would naturally head for a strip club.

*

(4) You ask if Rio is the best strip club. The answer is that it depends for what purpose. If you are going to a strip club, for the dancing / stripping, then probably Rio is not the best, as from the reports, there are far better strip clubs in Kiev, and perhaps try the Rhino ('Nosorug') strip clubs. If you want to enjoy a strip club with the best theécor and layout, or the prettiest girls dancing on stage, then Rio would also not be the best. I made a visit to the new Dolls club earlier this year, and it was a nicer looking club than Rio. Most people find Rio cramped and poorly laid out for a strip club whose purpose is to give a good view to the patrons of the girls dancing on a stage.

*

There was only one thing that made Rio unique among the other Kiev strip clubs for my purposes. And that was that Rio had the lowest 'take out' fee together with a lot of available pretty girls for the taking out. Based upon the solid and reliable reporting by TheKnight and other members about the prices and girls at many of the other strip clubs in Kiev, it became obvious that Rio's take out price of $300/3hours was lower than the prices at the other strip clubs. Dolls for example has a take out price of $300 for only two hours, not three hours like Rio. Other clubs were asking $400 or were reported to have weak line ups. So based upon TheKnights reports about the other strip clubs in Kiev, I too only bothered to go to Rio since then, and there were always sufficient pretty girls there.

*

(5) However, you should be aware for your upcoming trip, that the Mandarin club has now re—opened. If you liked Rio, then Mandarin is certainly worth a visit to check it out. It was a restaurant / cabaret / strip club along the River that was also closed and towed away in 2010 at the time of the demise of the River Palace. I always really enjoyed the cabaret show. No, the cabaret dancers were not strippers available for take out. Too bad. Many hotties dancing cabaret and good singing too. I was sure it had to be lip-synching. *It's a sister club of Rio, and it had the same prices for 'take out' of the strippers. There are no reports yet, but that is probably / hopefully still the case.

*

Any taxi driver should know where Mandarin is located. But you can Google it, as I just did and get the address which is 32 Moskovskiy Avenue. It's located on the River, and you can see more description on the website which is www.mandarin—restaurant. Kiev. Ua.

(6) But a word to the wise would be, that before going there, or any nightclub or strip club, you should find a taxi driver to make a deal with and take his number, who you can call and he will come pick you up wherever you are all night for a stated fee like 50 UAH (he should be willing because 50 UAH is more than the correct taxi fare to get around downtown anyway). He can pick you up from D'lux, and from Rio and from Mandarin or wherever. This is because, just as there was a taxi mafia in front of River Palace waiting to bend you over and fuck you with a ridiculous high price for your taxi ride back to your apartment or hotel when you exited with a girl, you can be sure there will be the same situation at Mandarin.

*

(7) If you are a bit more flexible with your spending on girls, you might want to check out Dolls strip club too, located at 57 Chervonoarmiis'ka. Although their $300/2hours take out fee was not so appealing, they also had a $500 / all night take out fee, which might amortize into something more reasonable. There weren't nearly as many girls there as one might see in Rio, at the time of my visit, but the Dolls club looked like it had potential and would grow into a good club.

LJ

IveyP
08-23-12, 06:53
I've read some reviews about pointing using credit cards in Kiev is not always save. I guess using common sense always works and using them in shopping centers should be save and much more less in other kind of places.

But what about regular local restaurants? And massage parlours like Roksolana o Rakuena?

DoctorOral
08-23-12, 07:22
Guys, we picked up on the glorious idea to exchange some Mamba contacts. Turns out that many of our fellow mongerers think with their dicks! From the 10 profiles I was sent. 8 are fake for SURE! IveyP sent only fake ones, so he must be getting not enough vitamins to keep his brain alive. Or he does not care!

Girls showing their pussies. Fake!

Girls with fancy wallpaper background. Fake.

Girls with no face shown (foto from back etc). Fake.

Girls with albums showing other girls in seperate folders. Fake (salon)

Use your brains!

Banter
08-23-12, 08:25
Hi all.

This is my first post and I must already apologize for my english as I'm french (nobody's perfect!)

I've been twice to Kiev : nov 2011 and April 2012.

I've been to lots of eastern europe capital (Prague, Bucharest, Budapest.) but Kiev is by far the best experience on my side.

It's outside the Euro zone so cheaper and inside Shengen so I don't need a visa.

ThanksWhilst it is true that French (and UK) citizens do not need a visa to enter the Ukraine, you should be aware that the Ukariane is not a Schengen country

Banter

Insomniaque
08-23-12, 08:59
Not been posting for quite a while, it feels a bit strange to be on the Kiev thread anew, but it brings back good memories.

I have not been in Kiev for more than a year, and I had more or less given up mongering (spent four nights in Ukraine without a shag, can you imagine) but yesterday night my perverted nature took over and I can't quite resist the pleasure to brag about it. I will write a report when I have time; meanwhile, this is just to say that I'll be in Kiev until Sunday. I am supposed to meet a girlfriend today and tomorrow, so I will be pretty busy (if ever she doesn't stand me up, that is) but in any case, I have nothing planned on Saturday; if somebody fancies a beer, PM me.

Cheers!

Prosal
08-23-12, 09:05
I'm french (nobody's perfect!)This type of self-depreciating has no sense. Being french is a asset in FSU. The frenchs are viewed as the most refined men in the world, Russians are particularly fond of french culture, and for every Russian or Ukrainian girl, Paris is the most romantic city on the planet. That said, if you prefer to pass for a fish & chip eating / beer drinking brit or a yank peckerwood, up to you. (rolleyes)

Prosal
08-23-12, 11:06
for every Russian or Ukrainian girl, Paris is the most romantic city on the planetSay the word "Paris" to a Ukrainian or Russian girl, and see her legs spread apart ever so slightly in an uncontrolled response.

Me and You
08-23-12, 11:22
Http://mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=775560429&hit=3

Please be nice to her.Hello Pedro. I didn't know that you have a bad taste of girls. She is not that pretty or sexy. But wally wally might like her as he likes skinny girls. I am in contact with a girl who works in Millenium. She invited me to Millenium. I told her I don't like this place and it is expensive. But I come for a drink with you and I can meet out of work's hours. An afternoon. She doesn't mind. I hope I will see her this week.

Jojosun
08-23-12, 12:19
[QUOTE=Prosal; 1318692.

. Being french is a asset in FSU. The frenchs are viewed as the most refined men in the world, Russians are particularly fond of french culture, and for every Russian or Ukrainian girl, Paris is the most romantic city on the planet. That said, if you prefer to pass for a fish & chip eating / beer drinking brit or a yank peckerwood, up to you. (rolleyes) [/QUOTE]"The French are sawed-off sissies who eat snails and slugs and cheese that smells like people's feet. Utter cowards who force their own children to drink wine, they gibber like baboons even when you try to speak to them in their own wimpy language.

The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know.

- PJ O'Rourke,"Holidays in Hell". LOL.

Time to reflect Poser_al. LOL.

SalbatorXXX
08-23-12, 12:39
This type of self-depreciating has no sense. Being french is a asset in FSU. The frenchs are viewed as the most refined men in the world, Russians are particularly fond of french culture, and for every Russian or Ukrainian girl, Paris is the most romantic city on the planet. That said, if you prefer to pass for a fish & chip eating / beer drinking brit or a yank peckerwood, up to you. (rolleyes)Hi Prosal.

I was not self-depreciating myself, just trying to be funny, which obviously didn't work with you. I've understood and experienced that being french was an asset in Ukraine. But I've also noticed during my numerous trips that lots of french are perceived as arrogant, obnoxious and rude. Don't worry, I'll never try to pass for a brit.

Cheers!

SalbatorXXX
08-23-12, 12:41
Whilst it is true that French (and UK) citizens do not need a visa to enter the Ukraine, you should be aware that the Ukariane is not a Schengen country

BanterYou're totally right Banter! The point here was that I didn't need a visa to get there and that prices were cheap.

For instance I wanted to try Minsk as a future trip but realized that I needed a visa which complicates it.

Cruiser D
08-23-12, 13:08
I started using Aerosvit to fly from Dubai after Ukrainian International bumped me from a Kiev to Dubai flight with the usual FSU customer service. What? You really want us to book another flight for you?

Dealing with Eastern Europeans en mass is usually problematic because anything that calls for a line or waiting usually turns into a blob free for all. Being in Business class usually avoids this. It is all part of the charm of traveling to the FSU, nothing you can really do about it except don't go.


They use Boeing. The seats are not the best, but is ok overall. When you land, they all applaud. Also, upon landing, get up quick and get on the ail, as people from way back in the plane rush forward for some strange reason, and one will be standing right by your row, making impossible for you to get up, get on the ail, open the overhead bin and get your stuff. Also, carry a face-mask in your travel pouch, many of them do not 'believe' in deodorant and your trip can be very uncomfortable.

Cruiser D
08-23-12, 13:14
Never had a problem using my CC in Kiev. I did have a ATM card cloned about a year ago. Oddest thing too, they waited two months after my last trip to withdraw money from my account, maybe it was some other scam besides the card reader and camera on the ATM. My bank refunded the money. CC are even easier to get the charges reversed.


I've read some reviews about pointing using credit cards in Kiev is not always save. I guess using common sense always works and using them in shopping centers should be save and much more less in other kind of places.

But what about regular local restaurants? And massage parlours like Roksolana o Rakuena?

Cruiser D
08-23-12, 13:18
You are right, being French is a plus is the FSU. Two of my cast offs ended up with French guys, one lives in Paris, the other a burb outside of Paris. I guess if you can't have an American you settle for a Frenchman.


This type of self-depreciating has no sense. Being french is a asset in FSU. The frenchs are viewed as the most refined men in the world, Russians are particularly fond of french culture, and for every Russian or Ukrainian girl, Paris is the most romantic city on the planet. That said, if you prefer to pass for a fish & chip eating / beer drinking brit or a yank peckerwood, up to you. (rolleyes)

DoctorOral
08-23-12, 13:49
So I took this old avice from Me and you and went to the BEST one (see below) :

City center, OK to find, girls speak english, the place is huge, it is clean. Yes. 1000 is a lot of cash. 850 for the second hour is not really cheap either.

YOu can chose the girl in the apartment and then take her back to your place "free of extra charge". Took a red haired, nice girl which had taken the lead while doing the line up. She explained sweetly who is there and asked what I wanted.

Went to the room, explained what I wanted. Funny, you then have to walk to the shower past all the other girls grinning at you. And then back again. Same after the deed, but they do not give you number cards as they do at the Olympics, though! .

Excellent nice hard massage, great long super blowjob. Super nice service!

If you want hassle-free, easy action with GREATLOOKING, super nice, tall girls, rating 8-10, go there and nowhere.

Me&you, thank you. The rest of you. Enjoy. (number is below)


About Saloons or appartments. Many in Center. Better to go to Saloons well known and not into private appartment with one or 2 girls and far from Center (for safety reasons).

I post some tel numbers for some appartments and I hope the same numbers still working as they chnage tel number periodically.

- BEST one 0674438285: on Kripynysto'koho str 4. Parralel to bessarabska: 1000 griv or 125 $ for hour but you can find top girls (7-8-9) like Gennia (tall blonde with Crystal blue eyes and nice tits and ass) or Ivanna (brunnette with blue eyes) or Vlada or Anfisa. 1000 is good deal as you don't have to pay taxi for girl. They will bring the girl to you and take her back with their own taxis in case you want her in your appartment (I prefer this option) or you can stay with the girl at the place as they have rooms. And no extras expenses drinks and so. As in clubs or in Rio.

- krasnoarmiskaya 14:0962667021:800 Katrin is 8 brunette with blue eyes.

- Shuta rustavelli 40:0639756410.

-Lesi Ukrainki 16:0637044480.

- Luteranska 3 0991178876.

- Bessarabska 5 behind Fridays restaurant: 067505612.

- Tarasovskaya 14:0965564010.

Advantages of these saloons:

- you see what you get (not a question of luck as on Mamba or other sites) and you can talk with the girl before going with her. Asking about services (usually no BBBJ but you can find some who accepts as I did with Anfisa when I met her that was her first day at work (still amateur) so we did DFK DATY BBJ and CIM. She was hot.

- no time waste: you go and you choose the girl and you go with her at the place or you pay and you ask them to bring her to your place. Or if you know some girls name from before, you can just call and order the girl if she is available and they bring her to your place but you must go to street and give the money before she go up with you.

- no extra expenses : no taxi fairs or drinks or so on.

- Some Saloons works 24 hours so when you are hopless and you need some action you have a reserve. Choice.

- Best time to is at 19 evening when most of girls start work. So you have the best selection to see the girls and write names in case you need to meet them later or call to bring some girl to you.

Good luck.

Prosal
08-23-12, 14:14
CD, I think you're a bit late.

Freedom Fries are so 2003.

SalbatorXXX
08-23-12, 14:28
Dear Salbatorxxx,

[. ]

(6) But a word to the wise would be, that before going there, or any nightclub or strip club, you should find a taxi driver to make a deal with and take his number, who you can call and he will come pick you up wherever you are all night for a stated fee like 50 UAH (he should be willing because 50 UAH is more than the correct taxi fare to get around downtown anyway). He can pick you up from D'lux, and from Rio and from Mandarin or wherever. This is because, just as there was a taxi mafia in front of River Palace waiting to bend you over and fuck you with a ridiculous high price for your taxi ride back to your apartment or hotel when you exited with a girl, you can be sure there will be the same situation at Mandarin.

*

(7) If you are a bit more flexible with your spending on girls, you might want to check out Dolls strip club too, located at 57 Chervonoarmiis'ka. Although their $300/2hours take out fee was not so appealing, they also had a $500 / all night take out fee, which might amortize into something more reasonable. There weren't nearly as many girls there as one might see in Rio, at the time of my visit, but the Dolls club looked like it had potential and would grow into a good club.

LJDear LJ,

Thanks for your answer! I also want to thank you for your posts in general, as you've been one of my main source to prepare my first 2 trips to Kiev. I actually went to Rio the first time after one of your reviews.

As I stated previously, I like to mix different approaches. Being in my 30's with a decent "game", I can hit on regular girls and get lucky. Although, since this is riskier, I like to do p4p on the side in order to get the "best of both worlds".

I usually begin the night by booking a girl at a random cheap local web site around 6 pm. This generally ends up with a decent looking girl in my bed by 8 pm. Then I go out to dinner and then clubs. If the outlook doesn't't look good, I usually decide to hit a strip club around 2 am for take out.

I understand your pricing categories but I wouldn't rank it the same way. For me, anything above 2h is a waste of time. I'd rather have 3 girls in one night (which happened once) than 1 for the whole night. This is very personal and I understand that some people prefer the opposite. So whether it's 300$ for 2h. 3h or the whole night is the same for me as I'd probably want to move on after 2 h.

What matters to me is :

1- the girl's looks.

2- the price for 2h.

3- the convenience to get to the strip club and back to my appartment.

Considering these 3 criterias, Rio always seemed like the good choice. I usually rent a place in the center = I can basically walk there. The deal is perfectly clear, there is a very large quantity of pretty girls (8-9) and nobody pressures you to buy drinks like you stated. I really don't care about the design of the club, the friendlyness of the staff and stuff like that. You're right about the price at Rio, I probably paid 250€ and not 250$ but my memory got blurred by the alcohol. If Dolls is 300$ for 2h, I might give it a try. Same thing for Mandarin, I'll probably go there to eat and see what happens.

Regarding the club scene, I like to party a lot so I tried quite a few places : D'Lux, Arena, Avalon, Buddha Bar, Skybar, Shooters and some others I don't remember. D'Lux and Buddha bar are the most expensive but also host the best looking girls. Shooters was ok but since it's the same amount of "work", I try to go to places with a high density of prey. I must also add that I picked several non pro at D'Lux, some of which I fucked the same night (probably the chance of the rookie!)

Thanks for your advices, I'll post on my experience after the trip to let you know how it went.

Sxxx

Gentleman Travel
08-23-12, 14:54
I did post the link already as a courtesy to the guys asking. Anyway, as you can imagine this is not even close to my real name, which BTW she does not know either. I imagine she met more than me, hard as it is to admit it, she was not a virgin LOL. Well, I hope they don't ruin her because she is still fresh and a lot of fun. Actually she seems to enjoy a lot and also laughs a lot. If next time I see her jaded, I know these guys screwed her, not just fucked her, or the other way around whatever is worst. I was showing a little bit of fellowship with my monger comrades (after all, it is the FSU)Pedro, we all have different sensibilities about what is OK to post and what not.

Personally I see no harm in posting a mamba link to a pro, even if it gets back to you.

And frankly, nothing wrong with posting a Mamba link to a "normal girl" if you don't mind every horndog on ISG going after her. Unless they are uncommonly stupid, they will not say "Pedro told me you were an easy lay", but instead pretend to have just happened upon her profile and approach her in their normal (hopefully) charming way.

Nor do I see a problem with posting photos of normal girls to substantiate one's stories. Personally I don't do this, but mostly because I need to be super-discrete. Now, posting a porno photo of a normal girl who thought you simply wanted the photos to keep you warm until you could apply for her fiancee visa would be a bit low.

Certainly I appreciate all the other guys who do post photos, but I just cannot reciprocate.

To each his own.

PedroToronja
08-23-12, 18:26
You are right, being French is a plus is the FSU. Two of my cast offs ended up with French guys, one lives in Paris, the other a burb outside of Paris. I guess if you can't have an American you settle for a Frenchman.Well, if being the most arrogant people in the planet, rude and cheap gives you 'cache' in any part of the word. More power to you. A running joke among tour guides is: what is the difference between a canoe and a French tourist? Canoes ti.

Just kidding, Vive La France! O la la! Paris je t'aime, je t'aime je t'amie, avec hibresse comme une maitresse (Ok, it has been a looong time since L'Aliance Francaise, but I can still read the menus: the only use I got of my 12 years studying French, including 6 months a Paris).

PedroToronja
08-23-12, 18:39
[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1318574]Dear Salbatorxxx,

To the new members of this Most Respectable International Fellowship of Mongers or (FUCK for short) , there are among us a couple of shills, constantly promoting their client club. While we have a big tent and accommodate all kinds, it is only fair to warn you of such, so you chose where / how you spend your money wisely. Buyer beware, Monger be even more 'ware' or you will be wearing off your credit card and pride faster than your mattress.

While everyone is entitled to make a living. We tend to give each other good advice since it is a jungle of working girls, pimps and other people of dubious character out there. Pushing for a certain club may get somebody here a salary, commission, free drinks and maybe some free (or deeply discounted) ass, as a Community we hope everyone here has a pleasant experience in Kyiv so we try to help each other in a most 'brothely' fashion. In that spirit, stay the heck out of Rio! .

Calm seas and following winds, sailor on your eternal pursuit of more pussy! (Hey, it is in our Constitution: we are all entitled by our Creator to the happiness of Pursuit!)

PedroToronja
08-23-12, 18:42
Endowed. To the Happiness of Pursuit! Hopefully we are all well endowed, in this sport it has huge advantages!

Entitlements suck. In a bad way!

Prosal
08-23-12, 19:53
"The French are sawed-off sissies who eat snails and slugs and cheese that smells like people's feet. Utter cowards who force their own children to drink wine, they gibber like baboons even when you try to speak to them in their own wimpy language.

The French are a smallish, monkey-looking bunch and not dressed any better, on average, than the citizens of Baltimore. True, you can sit outside in Paris and drink little cups of coffee, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I don't know.

- PJ O'Rourke,"Holidays in Hell". LOL.

Time to reflect Poser_al. LOL.Well, that is definitely not the opinion of the 1, 5 millions of russians who visit Paris each year. FYI there is a popular saying in Russia that says "Uvidet Parizh I umeret". [Deleted by Admin]

Russian girls never have enough of Paris:

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely antagonistic. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

Jojosun
08-23-12, 23:09
Hi Prosal.

But I've also noticed during my numerous trips that lots of french are perceived as arrogant, obnoxious and rude. Don't worry, I'll never try to pass for a brit.

Cheers!"French history: They turn on their friends and surrender to their enemies!"

Prosal
08-24-12, 14:52
"French history: They turn on their friends and surrender to their enemies!"Again, you're late, that "freedom fries" bullcrap is SO 2003.

Anyway, never heard of Napoleon? The French didn't overrun Europe (and carve out the second biggest overseas empire in history) by being cowards.

From "The 5 Most Statistically Full of Shit National Stereotypes:

"Ask Rudyard Kipling, who once famously said about the French: "Their business is war, and they do their business." And boy howdy, a quick glance at France's history shows business is booming:

Since 387 BC, France has fought 168 major wars against such badasses as the Roman Empire, the British Army and the Turkish forces. Their track record isn't too shabby, either: They've won 109, lost 49 and drawn (or as close as you can "draw" a war) 10 times. Professional boxers have been crowned world champions on shittier records than that.

And while it is true that France surrendered to Germany relatively early in WWII, that was only because they hadn't picked themselves up after WWI yet. And WWI (despite being an entire "I" lower) wasn't exactly an anemic playground chickenfight-the French suffered about 5. 7 million casualties (the war killed or wounded an incredible 37 million people worldwide).

So yes, the next time around they let the Germans take over officially, but they never actually stopped fighting: the French resistance was the most enduring symbols of Nazi opposition in Europe. The resistance was the originator of the archetypal trench coat wearing merchants of bloody death you see in countless action movies and video games today. They blew up bridges, staged daring night raids, slit German throats while generally looking fantastic (if a little ennui-stricken) while doing it.

And not a damn thing's changed since then: France is the most underestimated military force in the world, with the third highest military spending on the planet and an estimated 300 nuclear warheads at their disposal. So basically. We might want to knock off the "coward" talk now, lest we find the impeccably-styled death squads smoking their thin cigarettes on our doorstep."

Prosal
08-24-12, 15:00
By the way, you could at least read the Wikipedia article before making any statements:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_France

BTW. What did the British do at Dunkirk 1940?

"Although Churchill had promised the French that the British would cover their escape, on the ground it was the French who held the line while the last remaining British were evacuated. Despite concentrated artillery fire and Luftwaffe strafing and bombs, the French stood their ground."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Dunkirk[/QUOTE]

Jojosun
08-24-12, 18:28
Vive La France! O la la! Paris je t'aime, je t'aime je t'amie, avec hibresse comme une maitresse (Ok, it has been a looong time since L'Aliance Francaise, but I can still read the menus: the only use I got of my 12 years studying French, including 6 months a Paris).But to attract the French Waiter's Attention, you order In German, Right? LOL.

PedroToronja
08-24-12, 21:07
Well, that is definitely not the opinion of the 1, 5 millions of russians who visit Paris each year. FYI there is a popular saying in Russia that says "Uvidet Parizh I umeret". [Deleted by Admin]

Russian girls never have enough of Paris:

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely antagonistic. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You! Consider that Russians (for the most part) come from. Russia! Anything is Paradise compared to that place! Besides St. Petersburg 3 months a year (without mosquitoes, overwhelming heat or cold) , and the chicks at Night Flight, all else is shit. The problem with Russian tourists is that they bring Russia with them, wherever they go, so they screw up everything. BTW, Paris is waaaaay overrated nowadays. Crazy expensive, invaded by north African tribes, bad service most everywhere. Last I had dinner a La Tour the'Argent, granted, that was great. USD800 for two of us with a mediocre bottle of wine.

PedroToronja
08-24-12, 21:11
[QUOTE=PedroToronja; 1318868]Pedro, your crass insinuations are beneath even you. My response was to Salbatorxxx, a member whose own reply to me far exceeds your own in helpfulness to the membership here. Salbatorxxx has obviously himself been all over Kiev in the regular nightclubs as well as to Rio strip club, and has his own evaluations and reasons for his own preferences. That is the way intelligent men go about mongering. They evaluate the factual pros and cons of each venue and decide what works best for them. No one but a wacko from the lunatic fringe could possibly read my well-balanced and thorough reply to Salbatorxxx, which evenhandedly reviews ALL the price options, and come away from it with your conclusion that the post is for the solepurpose of promoting Rio. Quite obviously in mentioning all the options available, and the specific question about Rio that Salbatorxxx addressed to this forum in his post, I understand your extreme bias against the Rio strip club makes you desire that it should be omitted and not mentioned when speaking of all the options in Kiev. But that is dishonest. For it is and remains one of the options in Kiev.I noticed the 3 letter word 4 times in your 7 lines' message. You don't do a great job at 'not promoting it'.

Gergiev
08-25-12, 04:21
"French history: They turn on their friends and surrender to their enemies!"Ah, Jojo, you're only saying that 'cause it's true! :)

Limarian
08-25-12, 07:12
[QUOTE=Me and You; 1261596]About Saloons or appartments. Many in Center. Better to go to Saloons well known and not into private appartment with one or 2 girls and far from Center (for safety reasons).

I post some tel numbers for some appartments and I hope the same numbers still working as they chnage tel number periodically.

-THanks for a proper post among al the irrelevant dross. Do you have the names of said salons. So I can look for web sites. How do you find these places. Just wandering about or what?

Cruiser D
08-25-12, 10:24
I don't think LilJoey or Jojo are. A shill for Rio in the least bit. I simply think they were both grabbing for the lowest hanging fruit and the easiest option.


Even Cruiser D, who was previously a critic of my posts (because of their tendency to be long and contained info that veterans like him knew already) , commented recently about my above-referenced post (the first link above) that it was a good summary of the p4p options:LJ

Cruiser D
08-25-12, 10:39
Since when are Russians arbitators of what is cool, stylish or hip.

The number one destination for the dyevuskha used to be the US, then London and now some are telling me it is Austrialia. Who cares, most of us here go right to the source.

Russian girls never have enough of Paris. Or the Dominican Republic or Thailand or Las Vegas (if they are lucky enough to get a visa) or London or Rome or Greece or any other high profile place where you are paying.

Sure inviting a girl to Paris is a better draw then say Dusseldorf or Birmingham but as I mentioned before, the less you have to offer a girl the more you have to offer her.


Well, that is definitely not the opinion of the 1, 5 millions of russians who visit Paris each year. FYI there is a popular saying in Russia that says "Uvidet Parizh I umeret". [Deleted by Admin]

Russian girls never have enough of Paris:

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely antagonistic. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

Cruiser D
08-25-12, 10:45
The Iraq War was one of the few things the French and I agree on.

I am glad they didn't March lock step with the Coalition of the Stupid, Greedy and easily Bought.


CD, I think you're a bit late.

Freedom Fries are so 2003.

Prosal
08-25-12, 11:42
Russian girls never have enough of Paris. Or the Dominican Republic or Thailand or Las Vegas (if they are lucky enough to get a visa) or London or Rome or Greece or any other high profile place where you are paying.Hum."High profile place where you are paying". This is very much a stereotype. FYI there is now thousands over thousands of Russian women of an above-average social and cultural level, who are successful in their job, who have the means to travel extensily (on their own account) and who have NO materialistic expectations when they have an adventure or a relationship.

About the influence of french culture in Russia, I won't elaborate as it is totally off topic, but maybe you should know that russians are definitely the most francophile people on the planet, and this since that under Peter the Great and later Catherine II and Alexandre I, French language was the language of conversation and correspondence by the nobility and aristocracy. Don't underestimate the weight of history and culture, especially when speaking of Russian dyevs, who are definitely the most learned and intelligent women on the planet, and definitely the most cultured. The stereotype of the glamurnoe kiso whose only vacation dream is to going out in glam money-obliterating clubs in Miami is simply silly. Most of the Russian women I know are eager of cultural destinations, and in this respect, in their eyes, nothing beats Paris.

Excess
08-25-12, 12:41
. the less you have to offer a girl the more you have to offer her.Great saying, Mr. Cruiser, pretty much sums it up all the more so in the widespread Slavic lands. LOL

Jojosun
08-25-12, 12:58
I don't think LilJoey or Jojo are. A shill for Rio in the least bit. I simply think they were both grabbing for the lowest hanging fruit and the easiest option.Thanks CD. Of course I can't speak for Lilijoey, since we are a million miles apart in our mongering hangouts and tastes. Ha, Ha, I never found "The Lowest hanging Fruit and The easiest option " to have been Rio, not at US$300 a session. I stated this in every post right from the start.

I use and used Rio as "part of a diet in combination with others in Kiev " to coin your own comments. Much in the same way I use Lap Dance clubs in London and other cities in the US and elsewhere.

BTW, This is not how I read (Pedro's post) as far as I am concerned.

DoctorOral
08-25-12, 14:16
You call beorehand.

They have no sites.

They tell you if they are free and where to go.

Or tell your driver where to take you.

When tvhere call again and they will tell you which apartment and floor, and door code if needed.

QUOTE=Limarian; 1319289]
About Saloons or appartments. Many in Center. Better to go to Saloons well known and not into private appartment with one or 2 girls and far from Center (for safety reasons).

I post some tel numbers for some appartments and I hope the same numbers still working as they chnage tel number periodically.

-THanks for a proper post among al the irrelevant dross. Do you have the names of said salons. So I can look for web sites. How do you find these places. Just wandering about or what?

Uke Boy
08-25-12, 14:59
anyway, never heard of napoleon? the french didn't overrun europe (and carve out the second biggest overseas empire in history) by being cowards.200 years ago, exactly, began napoleon's and france's low point, the invasion of russia. seems you want to overlook this event that not only destroyed the grand armee but 2 years later had russian cossacks riding triumphantly into paris.

it was not a very good idea by the french (and the germans later) to try and enter russia without visas!

french was the language of catherine's court as well as most every other as well as the universal language of diplomacy everywhere. however, today it is the language of surly waiters and hotel maid [CodeWord127] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127).

Jojosun
08-25-12, 17:20
Again, you're late, that "freedom fries" bullcrap is SO 2003.

Anyway, never heard of Napoleon? The French didn't overrun Europe (and carve out the second biggest overseas empire in history) by being cowards.

From "The 5 Most Statistically Full of Shit National Stereotypes:

"Ask Rudyard Kipling, who once famously said about the French: "Their business is war, and they do their business." And boy howdy, a quick glance at France's history shows business is booming:

Since 387 BC, France has fought 168 major wars against such badasses as the Roman Empire, the British Army and the Turkish forces. Their track record isn't too shabby, either: They've won 109, lost 49 and drawn (or as close as you can "draw" a war) 10 times. Professional boxers have been crowned world champions on shittier records than that.

And while it is true that France surrendered to Germany relatively early in WWII, that was only because they hadn't picked themselves up after WWI yet. And WWI (despite being an entire "I" lower) wasn't exactly an anemic playground chickenfight-the French suffered about 5. 7 million casualties (the war killed or wounded an incredible 37 million people worldwide).

So yes, the next time around they let the Germans take over officially, but they never actually stopped fighting: the French resistance was the most enduring symbols of Nazi opposition in Europe. The resistance was the originator of the archetypal trench coat wearing merchants of bloody death you see in countless action movies and video games today. They blew up bridges, staged daring night raids, slit German throats while generally looking fantastic (if a little ennui-stricken) while doing it.

And not a damn thing's changed since then: France is the most underestimated military force in the world, with the third highest military spending on the planet and an estimated 300 nuclear warheads at their disposal. So basically. We might want to knock off the "coward" talk now, lest we find the impeccably-styled death squads smoking their thin cigarettes on our doorstep."Sorry Prosal about the title. Was only trying to grab your Attention, just in case you put me on an ingnore list. LOL. Been brought up to respect my Neighbours even if they are French.

With all due respect to Your Opinions, and they are just that (Opinions) , the following tells a different story.

French Military History in a Nutshell.

Gallic Wars: Lost. In a war whose ending foreshadows the next 2000 years of French history, France is conquered by of all things, an Italian. (Acolonizer's Great Great Grandfather ). LOL.

Hundred Years War: Mostly lost, saved at last by a female schizophrenic who inadvertently creates The First Rule of French Warfare. "France's armies are victorious only when not led by a Frenchmen."

Italian Wars: Lost. France becomes the first and only country ever to lose two wars when fighting Italians.

Wars of Religion: France goes 0-5-4 against the Huguenots.

Thirty Years' War: France is technically not a participant, but manages to get invaded anyway. Claims a tie on the basis that eventually the other participants started ignoring her.

War of Devolution: Tied; Frenchmen take to wearing red flowerpots as chapeaux.

War of the Augsburg League / King William's War / French and Indian War: Lost, but claimed as a tie. Deluded Frogophiles the world over label the period as the height of French Military Power.

War of the Spanish Succession: Lost. The War also gave the French their first taste of a Marlborough, which they have loved ever since.

French Revolution: Won, primarily due to the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars: Lost. Temporary victories (remember the First Rule!) due to leadership of a Corsican, who ended up being no match for a British footwear designer.

The Franco-Prussian War: Lost. Germany first plays the role of drunk Frat boy to France's ugly girl home alone on a Saturday night.

WWI: Tied and on the way to losing, France is saved by the United States. Thousands of French women find out what it's like not only to sleep with a winner, but one who doesn't call her "Fraulein." Sadly, widespread use of condoms by American forces forestalls any improvement in the French bloodline.

WWII: Lost. Conquered French liberated by the United States and Britain just as they finish learning the Horst Wessel Song. (Gratitiude has no equivalent word in french ).

War in Indochina: Lost. French forces plead sickness, take to bed with Dien Bien Flu.

As for Sex. Paris is the "Most Romantic city in The World) because what else is there to do?

One gets fucked there, but can't get Laid.

Cruiser D
08-25-12, 17:35
It was my polite way of saying lame. Shooting fish in a barrel. Newbie. Etc. Etc.


Thanks CD. Of course I can't speak for Lilijoey, since we are a million miles apart in our mongering hangouts and tastes. Ha, Ha, I never found "The Lowest hanging Fruit and The easiest option " to have been Rio, not at US$300 a session. I stated this in every post right from the start.

I use and used Rio as "part of a diet in combination with others in Kiev " to coin your own comments. Much in the same way I use Lap Dance clubs in London and other cities in the US and elsewhere.

BTW, This is not how I read (Pedro's post) as far as I am concerned.

Cruiser D
08-25-12, 18:15
The greatness of French culture in the past is only ecplised by the umm, less then greatness of the French since the French Revolution. Who mentioned anything about French influence on Imperial Russia? Any trace of which, including Russian nobility was wiped out by WWI, the Revolution and WWII. Do you think the vast majority of the Imperial Russian population, the serf, embraced French culture? American culture, whether good or bad has been a world wide, including France, juggernaut since WW2 embrace by all.

Russian females being most learned and intelligent? Learned by what? The Soviet and now post Soviet educational system? Bah. What I like about FSU girls is that they put their feminism first, for most that is everything to them. I'm sure in another generation or so it will be gone but I surely won't care by then.

I will bet you a fur trimmed coat that if offered a paid trip to Paris or a paid trip to Las Vegas that 80% of Russian girls of any age, say 12-80 would take the trip to Vegas. Girls of any age and any culture love Vegas. I think it is all the blinking lights. The only thing that Paris is the capital of now is France.

Your directly below comment show your lack of understand of females. Not all girls (or most) are gold digging wh or s but for sure they like to be taken care of.


Hum."High profile place where you are paying". This is very much a stereotype. FYI there is now thousands over thousands of Russian women of an above-average social and cultural level, who are successful in their job, who have the means to travel extensily (on their own account) and who have NO materialistic expectations when they have an adventure or a relationship.

About the influence of french culture in Russia, I won't elaborate as it is totally off topic, but maybe you should know that russians are definitely the most francophile people on the planet, and this since that under Peter the Great and later Catherine II and Alexandre I, French language was the language of conversation and correspondence by the nobility and aristocracy. Don't underestimate the weight of history and culture, especially when speaking of Russian dyevs, who are definitely the most learned and intelligent women on the planet, and definitely the most cultured. The stereotype of the glamurnoe kiso whose only vacation dream is to going out in glam money-obliterating clubs in Miami is simply silly. Most of the Russian women I know are eager of cultural destinations, and in this respect, in their eyes, nothing beats Paris.

LilJoey
08-25-12, 18:18
[QUOTE=LilJoey; 1318897]I noticed the 3 letter word 4 times in your 7 lines' message. You don't do a great job at 'not promoting it'.Wordcounts? That's where we've come to now? Please lighten up, just a little, Pedro. Step back from the trees (the details of word counting) , and look at the whole forest and bigger picture. Obviously, I can't and wouldn't avoid mentioning the name of the Rio club (the "three letter word" you refer to as if it were some sort of curse word) when I am in the midst of discussing all the options on Kiev. It's one of the options and many guys go there and enjoy. It comes up in the context of discussions comparing prices and comparative convenience of the various options. I'm sure you understand this. I certainly don't go out of my way to mention it more times than is called for by the context of what I'm trying to communicate. This idea of it being somehow meritorious to avoid mentioning the name of one of the major mongering establishments in Kiev strikes me as wierd. Anyway, since I know you're an intelligent guy, I know you understand what I'm saying.

Cruiser D just explained what he meant by low hanging fruit, as a polite way of saying it was a way of getting girls that was easy, lame, and for the newbie. He is, of course, quite correct. And just as obviously, I was writing for the newbie. Obviously we all know Cruiser D's opinion that there are higher levels of chasing girls than sitting in a strip club and waiting for pussy to literally fall into one's lap. So he says hit the nightclubs and do your best. And in reference to the seeking the lowest price issue he argues that the prices in the nightclubs for very hot girls are low enough to make it worth the effort of mongering there since he avers that it is possible to get p4p in the regular nightclubs for $200/2hours and lower.

If CD's observations are factual, and I have no reason to believe them not to be, I don't disagree with what he is saying one bit. It is more fun and more natural in a regular nightclub setting than in a strip club. No one has ever argued with that. The issue used to be prices of the WG's, when for a time the nightclub WG's were demanding no less than $300/2hours. In that situation, the price at Rio of $300/3hours came out lower because of the extra time. Now that the prices in the regular nightclubs are reported to be lower and back at the $200/2hours or lower range, that used to be possible at River Palace, the value shifts to the regular nightclubs, and away from the strip clubs. The issue is price and value driven.

The other factor a guy must keep in mind when mongering within a limited amount of time, is efficiency, meaning how quickly and easily can one succeed in getting a hottie to come home with him for sex in a given environment. I don't need it to be immediate. I enjoyed the chase of the girls, insofar as price negotiation made it a chase, that used to take place at the River Palace. Similarly, I'm up for the same at any regular nightclub too, even if it's a little more nebulous and drawn out. But if I find that it is not so easy to find the really hot WG's with prices of $200/2hours or below, and find further that my luck with finding semi. Pro girls in the nightclubs is being hampered because of not wearing a $7, 000 watch, or $20, 0000 watch, the suit and expensive shoes, recOmmended by Cruiser D and / or Prosal and even yourself in some posts, then my conclusions will be drawn from those experiences. As I am not after freebies on a three night visit to Kiev. I am trying to find the path to very hot P4p sex with very beautiful girls at the lowest cost possible within reason, and the most quick and efficient fashion. I will always analyze the options available in Kiev through the prism of those factors. This is because the limitation of time I must necessarily contend with on a three night visit to Kiev is a merciless master, and failure to bed a hottie each night in Kiev an ignominious failure that should have been avoided using a little smarts.

LJ

Climaxnow
08-25-12, 18:46
Being french is a asset in FSU. The frenchs are viewed as the most refined men in the world, Russians are particularly fond of french culture, and for every Russian or Ukrainian girl, Paris is the most romantic city on the planet.French family life is probably the best in the world. That being said, all the commercialization of Paris might be good for a couple of weeks to an FSU girl before it becomes nauseating.

Prosal
08-25-12, 19:11
Your directly below comment show your lack of understand of females. Not all girls (or most) are gold digging wh or s but for sure they like to be taken care of.What a disdainful and spiteful statement. The fact that I said that a girl has no materialistic expectations doesn't mean that I don't call the shots with her. I NEVER let my GFs pay for their drinks, entrance to a club, share in restaurant or whatever. It is elementary male courtesy. That said, about Las Vegas being the most desirable destination on the planet for most Russian dyevs, I won't elaborate on this nonsense BS. Obviously we don't frequent the same type of girls.

Poker Player 2
08-25-12, 20:56
I am not sure how we got reduced to discussing the merits of the French culture on this board but perhaps I could urge the distinquished members to consider returning to the topic of real interest which for me is Ukrainian girls. The topic of the merits French culture and Paris as a destination city interests me almost as much as discussing the merits of the infamous RIO club on this board.

Thank you in advance.

SalbatorXXX
08-26-12, 00:43
Guys.

Had I known that my reference of being french would have triggered so many comments, I wouldn't have done it! I thought this forum was about exploring the best possible ways of getting laid in Kiev, not discussing the merits or flaws of the French army. I didn't respond to any of the French bashing as I really don't care about that.

So if I get back to the main subject, I didn't understand Pedro's post on being careful about what people say, especially about RIO. I've been to RIO 3 times and it has been an excellent experience each time. With LJ's post, I know 2 more strip clubs that I'll hit next week (Dolls and Mandarin).

Regarding going to strip clubs being seen as "the low hanging fruit", this is your opinion. I also like to mix it with chasing regular girls at nightclubs but there's no hierarchy for me between the 2 options. A few years back, I used to think that getting a regular girl in my bed was more heroic and then I grew up and realized that the goal was to do the sexiest possible girl (paid or not). I didn't really like the association you made between being a freebie on this forum and taking the "low hanging fruit" option. It's not because someone hasn't been writing on this forum his entire life, that he cannot score a regular girl in a disco and decide what option is good for him. We're all grown men after all.

Voilà

Sxxx

Climaxnow
08-26-12, 01:50
What a disdainful and spiteful statement. The fact that I said that a girl has no materialistic expectations doesn't mean that I don't call the shots with her. I NEVER let my GFs pay for their drinks, entrance to a club, share in restaurant or whatever. It is elementary male courtesy. That said, about Las Vegas being the most desirable destination on the planet for most Russian dyevs, I won't elaborate on this nonsense BS. Obviously we don't frequent the same type of girls.In twenty years, I never had a girlfriend ask me to bring her to a place like Vegas or a major city like Paris. For me, its all been Florida, Mexico, and Grand Canyon.

Jojosun
08-26-12, 01:57
French family life is probably the best in The World ..

Wee Wee, I agree.

France has a new president who lives with a woman that he is not married to. Their relationship is described as French.

Cruiser D
08-26-12, 13:45
Most girls of any age or any background love Las Vegas, it's the ultimate sparkely jewel.

The food and weather are pretty good too. No other place in the world like it, Dubai tried and failed.

Paris is nice but passe and common. Really, who hasn't been? Girls hate that.


What a disdainful and spiteful statement. The fact that I said that a girl has no materialistic expectations doesn't mean that I don't call the shots with her. I NEVER let my GFs pay for their drinks, entrance to a club, share in restaurant or whatever. It is elementary male courtesy. That said, about Las Vegas being the most desirable destination on the planet for most Russian dyevs, I won't elaborate on this nonsense BS. Obviously we don't frequent the same type of girls.

Cruiser D
08-26-12, 13:48
I am in Kiev right now fucking as many very attractive Ukrainian girls as I can. They are nice and tan after spending the summer on vacation. The student girls should start coming back to Kiev this week. I plan on fucking some of them too.

If the humiditiy in Kiev doesn't break within a day or two I am going to go to Odessa and fuck a bunch of Ukrainian girls in Odessa.

What are you up to?


I am not sure how we got reduced to discussing the merits of the French culture on this board but perhaps I could urge the distinquished members to consider returning to the topic of real interest which for me is Ukrainian girls. The topic of the merits French culture and Paris as a destination city interests me almost as much as discussing the merits of the infamous RIO club on this board.

Thank you in advance.

Jojosun
08-26-12, 14:36
Most girls of any age or any background love Las Vegas, it's the ultimate sparkely jewel.

The food and weather are pretty good too. No other place in the world like it, Dubai tried and failed.

Paris is nice but passe and common. Really, who hasn't been? Girls hate that..

Couldn't agree more. Tons more fun than paris. And the Pool Parties awsome.

Vegas any day of the week for Short trips.

Not bad for Retirement either in Henderson.

Just InTime
08-26-12, 16:05
I am an american, never visited eastern europe and speak no Russian and have spent maybe 4 hours learning the alphabet. I feel like I should visit and see if I even like it there before I invest too much time in the language. I spent about 10 years learning spanish and have visited just about every latin american country worth visiting. I want to broaden my herizons and visit very soon in September. I'm mainly interested in meeting non pros and pros when I have to. It would be really nice just to have a non pro and go around the city or country exploring. Is Kiev the place for me? Are there better options? Anyone there need a wingman that is trust worthy?

Thanks

Just InTime
08-26-12, 16:23
I am an american, never visited eastern europe and speak no Russian and have spent maybe 4 hours learning the alphabet. I feel like I should visit and see if I even like it there before I invest too much time in the language. I spent about 12 years learning spanish and have visited just about every latin american country worth visiting. I want to broaden my herizons and visit very soon in September. I'm mainly interested in meeting non pros and pros when I have to. It would be really nice just to have a non pro and go around the city or country exploring. Is Kiev the place for me? Are there better options? Anyone there need a wingman that is trust worthy?

Thanks

Toptraveler1
08-26-12, 16:47
Say the word "Paris" to a Ukrainian or Russian girl, and see her legs spread apart ever so slightly in an uncontrolled response.As I see you are completely disconnected from reality of these countries and their cultureS. Such statements are wrong, harmful, shameful and even unrespectful to girls you meet. I hope my friends of this forum will forgive you as obviously you really don't know what you say. It is not necessary to put comments everyday and give your opinion about everything if you have such deep misunderstanding of these countries. If I was you I would spend my time to learn some new Russian words in order to understand them better!

YellowPaul
08-26-12, 17:12
I started using Aerosvit to fly from Dubai after Ukrainian International bumped me from a Kiev to Dubai flight with the usual FSU customer service. What? You really want us to book another flight for you?

Dealing with Eastern Europeans en mass is usually problematic because anything that calls for a line or waiting usually turns into a blob free for all. Being in Business class usually avoids this. It is all part of the charm of traveling to the FSU, nothing you can really do about it except don't go.Decided to take the plunge with Aerosvit. The Business class seats were reasonable in price so I went with that. I'm not expecting a international standard up there versus Asian or the major European airlines, just hopefully some more sleep on the plane.

If any fellow mongers are going to be around Kiev from Sept 18-25. Send me PM.

Tony

LilJoey
08-26-12, 17:56
I am in Kiev right now fucking as many very attractive Ukrainian girls as I can. They are nice and tan after spending the summer on vacation. The student girls should start coming back to Kiev this week. I plan on fucking some of them too.

If the humiditiy in Kiev doesn't break within a day or two I am going to go to Odessa and fuck a bunch of Ukrainian girls in Odessa.

What are you up to?Now that you're back into it with a bang in Kiev, how about some details on your exploits. I'm particularly interested in details about the p4p WG scene in the various nightclubs you get to, as to things like your estimations regarding the level of looks of the WG's attending, the prices being asked by WG's and semi pros, where is the best scene to be found amongst the various different clubs, etc. Any further detail you ate inclined to offer on these question in addition to what you've pointed out in brief previously, would surely be helpful for my upcoming trip, as well as all others.

Thanks,

LJ

Jojosun
08-26-12, 18:20
Well, that is definitely not the opinion of the 1, 5 millions of russians who visit Paris each year. FYI there is a popular saying in Russia that says "Uvidet Parizh I umeret". [Deleted by Admin]

Russian girls never have enough of Paris:

[! [/i][/blue]The 1. 5 m of russians head to Paris, because most probably they can't get visas to the UK.

The UK is more selective about the kind of Russians it would take, hence its called Londongrad. Oligarchs reside and play here with all the cash they brought from Russia and the FSU. They brought some ugly and ostentious Russian habits with them as well. Zero Style and Zero Culture.

Including the Ukraine's Richest man Rinat Akhmetov, who bought the UK's Most expensive apartment at a price of US$212 millions. More millions will be spent on it as well. And its a brand new apartment.

Even Asylum seekers don't want to stay in France. Thousands have smuggled themselves across the channel from Calaise into the UK.

Wonder why?

Jojosun
08-26-12, 18:23
Well, that is definitely not the opinion of the 1, 5 millions of russians who visit Paris each year. FYI there is a popular saying in Russia that says "Uvidet Parizh I umeret". [Deleted by Admin]

Russian girls never have enough of Paris:

[! [/i][/blue]The 1. 5 m of russians head to Paris, because most probably they can't get visas to the UK.

The UK is more selective about the kind of Russians it would take, hence its called Londongrad. Oligarchs reside and play here with all the cash they brought from Russia and the FSU. They brought some ugly and ostentatious Russian habits with them as well. Zero Style and Zero Culture.

Including the Ukraine's Richest man Rinat Akhmetov, who bought the UK's Most expensive apartment at a price of US$212 millions. More millions will be spent on it as well. And its a brand new apartment.

Even Asylum seekers don't want to stay in France. Thousands have smuggled themselves across the channel from Calaise into the UK.

Wonder why?

Climaxnow
08-26-12, 19:10
The 1. 5 m of russians head to Paris, because most probably they can't get visas to the UK.

The UK is more selective about the kind of Russians it would take, hence its called Londongrad. Oligarchs reside and play here with all the cash they brought from Russia and the FSU. They brought some ugly and ostentatious Russian habits with them as well. Zero Style and Zero Culture.

Including the Ukraine's Richest man Rinat Akhmetov, who bought the UK's Most expensive apartment at a price of US$212 millions. More millions will be spent on it as well. And its a brand new apartment.

Even Asylum seekers don't want to stay in France. Thousands have smuggled themselves across the channel from Calaise into the UK.

Wonder why?I have been to London and most blue collar EE people hate it there. For them its all about the work. Brits don't know how to use a pipe wrench and have no choice but to let foreigners in. It's not like they have some deep appreciation for the culture.

Climaxnow
08-26-12, 19:18
.

couldn't agree more. tons more fun than paris. and the pool parties awsome.

vegas any day of the week for short trips.

not bad for retirement either in henderson.most vegas trips with ee girls are initiated by the guy. sure they want to take a peek, but most normal ee girls will quickly realize that vegas girls are america's extreme of gold digging vipers. it's just not a top destination for them.

Prosal
08-26-12, 19:39
As I see you are completely disconnected from reality of these countries and their cultureS. Such statements are wrong, harmful, shameful and even unrespectful to girls you meet. I hope my friends of this forum will forgive you as obviously you really don't know what you say. It is not necessary to put comments everyday and give your opinion about everything if you have such deep misunderstanding of these countries. If I was you I would spend my time to learn some new Russian words in order to understand them better!Ouch, what a diatribe. But this really cracks me up because anyone who will check your post record will see that until now, you have ONLY managed to fill three pages of questions, most of them being about prostitutes. So far for your knowledge of the Russian culture. BTW you said in a post that you "spended a few years in Moscow", but a single search on your past posts reveals only questions about this city, such as "Hello, I need to know if there is any other expat club, except Che, in Moscow?" Or "Hello, anybody knows where we can find Toshkas in Moscow?". Not even talking of this one "Anyway if I was really thinking that ukrainians are so uncultured and russians are so good looking, I'll buy a ticket for Moscow tomorrow morning and would leave Ukraine forever."

So you spent a few years in Ukraine or in Moscow?

And NO reports featuring lots of vodka and poon, tips, elaboration about the nightlife, considerations about the slavic girls psyche, lists of the "in" spots, ect ect? Only those three pages of questions?

Mythomania is a severe disease, you should consult ASAP.

Jojosun
08-26-12, 20:08
I have been to London and most blue collar EE people hate it there. For them its all about the work. It's not like they have some deep appreciation for the culture.Really, in which survey.

If so, because they can't fit in. Their Accents are off putting for a start to a lot of English girls.

Well they can bugger off back to where they came from.

EE WGS, the, the.

Blue Collar, neyet.

Climaxnow
08-26-12, 20:20
I am an american, never visited eastern europe and speak no Russian and have spent maybe 4 hours learning the alphabet. I feel like I should visit and see if I even like it there before I invest too much time in the language. I spent about 10 years learning spanish and have visited just about every latin american country worth visiting. I want to broaden my herizons and visit very soon in September. I'm mainly interested in meeting non pros and pros when I have to. It would be really nice just to have a non pro and go around the city or country exploring. Is Kiev the place for me? Are there better options? Anyone there need a wingman that is trust worthy?

ThanksI feel the general hobbyist market is a waste of time in Kiev. For the same money, you can find the same quality at home for much less when you factor travel expenses. However, the girlfriend market is what makes Kiev unique. That's just something you can not find back in the states.

After my first trip to Russia a few years back, I decided it was worth the effort to learn the language. If you already know one of the romance languages, you are already 10 % there to basic Russian. Learning Russian has actually turned into an enjoyable hobby for me. .

Udachi

Prosal
08-26-12, 20:43
So as you see I spent more than 3 years in Moscow
I lived in Moscow last year for about 6 months and it was a great great experience!
May someone tells me when a Ukranian girl fixes your eyes, what does it mean as it is much less commun in Western Europe?ThanksThis last one has been posted AFTER you allegedly "spent six months in Moscow" (or maybe was it during the period where you "lived there for three years", sorry I am confused). It says a lot about your knowledge of Ukrainian and Russian girls LOL. IMO you probably live in your mother's basement and have never stepped a foot in Russia or in Ukraine, nor never scored a Russian or an Ukrainian girl for that matter.


Uke Boy, You really need someone to help you. I am serious, you are a loser.Sorry, I have to modify my previous statement. Obviously you posted not only questions, but also insults (and irritating controversial nonsense BS).

Prosal
08-26-12, 20:56
Most girls of any age or any background love Las Vegas, it's the ultimate sparkely jewel.NO Russian girl with a IQ superior to 70 will prefer Vegas to Paris or Rome. (rolleyes)

PedroToronja
08-27-12, 00:49
Thanks CD. Of course I can't speak for Lilijoey, since we are a million miles apart in our mongering hangouts and tastes. Ha, Ha, I never found "The Lowest hanging Fruit and The easiest option " to have been Rio, not at US$300 a session. I stated this in every post right from the start.

I use and used Rio as "part of a diet in combination with others in Kiev " to coin your own comments. Much in the same way I use Lap Dance clubs in London and other cities in the US and elsewhere.

BTW, This is not how I read (Pedro's post) as far as I am concerned.The only poster that appears to have an obsession with the 3 letter club is LJ, and this is not just opinion, but most every post he does includes the name (advertising) of that club, multiple times (7 times on his last posting protesting his identification as a shill)! Oh, and always in a direct or round-about way, that place is the best choice. C'mon guys, if it walks like a duck, it looks like a duck. I personally don't give a dam, it does not affect me, but would hate to see fellow mongers mislead. Some of us toil long and hard, travel long distances, face peril at the restaurants in Kiev (food poisoning, but I was stupid enough to order oysters.at Monaco restaurant- on a city so far from the ocean) , jealous wives that inspect our luggage upon our return from this 'business trip', etc. Etc. So get laid good and often in that Slavic paradise! Anyway, go to DejaVue restaurant if you like (nice live music but they smoke inside, try the pineapple filled with fresh fruit in season!) but don't go to the club next to it. Rather keep on walking, get into the Opera House and put up with a long Opera: very boring but a lot cheaper. Chances to pick up a hottie at the Opera? Zero! But their ballet is really first class! . Oh, yes, LJ is a shill.

How14
08-27-12, 01:54
[Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was deleted because the subject was not related to the purpose of this Forum, which is as follows:

The purpose of this Forum is to provide for the exchange if information between men on the subject of finding women for sex.

Prosal
08-27-12, 10:44
most normal EE girls will quickly realize that Vegas girls are America's extreme of gold digging vipers. It's just not a top destination for them.Totally true. What strikes me up is that some guys here obviously don't accept that MANY girls (and not EE girls, ALL girls whose IQ is above 70) prefer to visit Le Louvre or the Villa Borghese in Rome than to be in a soulless and mercantile adult Dysneyland like Vegas.

Gentleman Travel
08-27-12, 14:49
NO Russian girl with a IQ superior to 70 will prefer Vegas to Paris or Rome. (rolleyes)Yes, I think if a girl said her dream was to go to Vegas, that would be a good sign to drop her! All flash and no class.

While many EE women have now been to Paris or London, there are thousands more for whom it is still a dream. And many would love to return again and again. What better thing to say to their colleagues and friends, than "My boyfriend took me to Paris for the weekend." She doesn't have to say that she spent most of that time staring up at the ceiling!

I am sure that even to be able to say you live in Paris, is a great ice-breaker with EE girls. Much more so than my colonial backwater town, which I would need a world map to explain to a dyev.

Let's face it guys, all this France bashing is just because everyone is envious of the advantages Prosal has in enticing dyevs to the City of Light, or at least holding out the promise.

Is it actually easier to get a visa for France than UK? I guess UK isn't a Schengen country?

Can countries within the Schengen zone have different standards for travel to their country only?

For example, could Greece allow Ukrainians in visa-free (or easy to get visa) for travel in Greece only, but still remain in the Schengen zone and apply different standards for a Schengen visa?

Climaxnow
08-27-12, 15:34
And NO reports featuring lots of vodka and poon, tips, elaboration about the nightlife, considerations about the slavic girls psyche, lists of the "in" spots, ect ect? Only those three pages of questions?That's the problem with this thread, it has turned to nothing more than general p4p info on Kiev. The guys with the girlfriends no longer participate.

Gentleman Travel
08-27-12, 15:44
Rather keep on walking, get into the Opera House and put up with a long Opera: very boring but a lot cheaper. Chances to pick up a hottie at the Opera? Zero! But their ballet is really first class!There are some things no right-minded monger should do, even for sex!

And going to the Opera is at the top of the list!

I can think of no greater anti-aphrodisiac than to sit for hours having some fat lady scream at me in Italian (or German).

It probably explains the low birth rates in those countries!

Tomux 22
08-27-12, 16:30
Totally true. What strikes me up is that some guys here obviously don't accept that MANY girls (and not EE girls, ALL girls whose IQ is above 70) prefer to visit Le Louvre or the Villa Borghese in Rome than to be in a soulless and mercantile adult Dysneyland like Vegas.Thank god that in our post modern society people can chose for them self's on which direction they do want to develop. Who are you kidding that educated person needs to know anything about Le Louvre etc. You can find art in all shapes, forms and phenomena. Just because most of people that are visiting places you mention whats to appear educated, smart and high class. Most of them is still just illusion.

So please keep it for your self of how great the France is.

Prosal
08-27-12, 16:44
So please keep it for your self of how great the France is.I agree with what you say, people are free to choose; that said, as long as there will be some "France bashing", allow me to answer, and to show some national prideness. All that has began with a very innocent statement that I made (and which a pure fact) : that EE dyevs never have enough of Paris.

As a side note, people who say that Vegas is the most desirable destination on the planet could also surely say that Hard Rock Cafe is the best restaurant worldwide and that Expandable 2 is the best movie ever made. All that is in the same range.

Jojosun
08-27-12, 16:51
Is it actually easier to get a visa for France than UK? I guess UK isn't a Schengen country?

Can countries within the Schengen zone have different standards for travel to their country only?

For example, could Greece allow Ukrainians in visa-free (or easy to get visa) for travel in Greece only, but still remain in the Schengen zone and apply different standards for a Schengen visa?.

UK is not a member of the Schengen visa scheme. It depends on a lot of Factors.

But say for a young UA girl to apply for a UK visa, her chances are almost ZERO.

There are many, many more Chinese tourists who visit France than the UK, because its easier for them to get a Visa.

I know at one time some UA girls were getting Schengen visa by applying through the Czech Embassy in Kiev. The Czech republic is a member of the Schengen Scheme.

Paying a bribe, false documents, Dunno/.

Schengen visa is a centralized system for all members, which allow free travel and movements withiin members of the Schengen Scheme. There is no Visa for only one country in the scheme.

Prosal
08-27-12, 17:09
Is it actually easier to get a visa for France than UK? I guess UK isn't a Schengen country?

Can countries within the Schengen zone have different standards for travel to their country only?

For example, could Greece allow Ukrainians in visa-free (or easy to get visa) for travel in Greece only, but still remain in the Schengen zone and apply different standards for a Schengen visa?Girls can get a visa for Spain or Greece and then travel freely in the Schengen zone (which doesn't included UK, but who wants to visit UK?). It is actually easier to get a visa for those countries than it is to get a visa at for France. A Russian GF of mine just went through this process (visa for Spain) to visit me next week.

Jojosun
08-27-12, 17:11
Y.

Is it actually easier to get a visa for France than UK? I guess UK isn't a Schengen country?.

In addition to the 1. 5 million Russians, Prosal says visit Paris every year, thousands of Chinese head there too. .

Here is why.

"t 25-50% more Chinese tourists are believed to visit France than Britain; some indicators suggest there are up to eight times as many visits. A UK visitor visa requires lengthy forms with original supporting documents and costs £78, compared with the €60 (£47. 60) that buys access to the whole European Schengen zone. The UK visa also requires biometric data, which involves applications in person, although Europe will follow suit next year.

Hunt's latest promise to the tourism industry that he would work hard to boost the Chinese market was marred by news that the home secretary, Theresa May, strongly opposed any relaxation of the rules.

One airline director said that the Home Office still views China as more a source of asylum seekers and economic migrants than consumers.".

Paris is so Passe. Compared to LONDON the Capital of The World.

Prosal
08-27-12, 17:35
So please keep it for your self of how great the France is.Just for you, as I saw on your post history that you asked questions about Jakarta (the second most enjoyable place on the planet for me after FSU). Indonesian, well-know model and ex GF of mine, and fond of Paris. (wink)

Climaxnow
08-27-12, 17:45
Never ever ask them to go someplace. Wait until they mention traveling. If you take a girl out of her daily routine, they will think that they are doing you a favor. If they initiate they idea, they will pay you back with good sex.

Prosal
08-27-12, 18:25
Never ever ask them to go someplace. Wait until they mention traveling. If you take a girl out of her daily routine, they will think that they are doing you a favor. If they initiate they idea, they will pay you back with good sex.Many dyevs are mesmerized by South of France. I spent four days in Cannes mid-August (after three GREAT weeks in Tashkent by the way) with a Ukrainian GF, and honestly, tourists were Russians at 90 per cent. Many couples, but also many single girls who obviously travelled, with one or two girfriends, on their own account. It was literally astounding. That said, I will agree with Cruiser, admittedly going to the source is the best.

Jojosun
08-27-12, 21:03
Totally true. What strikes me up is that some guys here obviously don't accept that MANY girls (and not EE girls, ALL girls whose IQ is above 70) prefer to visit Le Louvre or the Villa Borghese in Rome than to be in a soulless and mercantile adult Dysneyland like Vegas..

Without the cost of travel factor, any Man "whose IQ is above 70 " realizes that its far cheaper to have a Luxurious holiday with great weather and Food plus Nightlife in some of the best hotels in the world in Vegas, than in Paris or Rome.

I just hope that I don't meet a Kiev girl who is a member of Mensa.

And talking about IQ and Mensa, of course that was another British Contribution to the world in 1946, just after British And US Armies liberated Paris and france from Nazi Occupation.

Cruiser D
08-27-12, 21:21
I often forget I play this game at a different level then most on this site.

I take girls where I want, they love it because they are lucky enough to be with me.


What better thing to say to their colleagues and friends, than "My boyfriend took me to Paris for the weekend." She doesn't have to say that she spent most of that time staring up at the ceiling!

I am sure that even to be able to say you live in Paris, is a great ice-breaker with EE girls. Much more so than my colonial backwater town, which I would need a world map to explain to a dyev.

Let's face it guys, all this France bashing is just because everyone is envious of the advantages Prosal has in enticing dyevs to the City of Light, or at least holding out the promise.

Cruiser D
08-27-12, 21:24
So says the guy in the fur trimmed coat.

You guys really don't have a clue about what you are talking about. It's all about the blinky lights.

Me, jugling dozens of hots girls all over the world and they know about it. You guys, not so much.


Totally true. What strikes me up is that some guys here obviously don't accept that MANY girls (and not EE girls, ALL girls whose IQ is above 70) prefer to visit Le Louvre or the Villa Borghese in Rome than to be in a soulless and mercantile adult Dysneyland like Vegas.

Prosal
08-27-12, 22:21
I often forget I play this game at a different level then most on this site.

I take girls where I want, they love it because they are lucky enough to be with me.
Me, jugling dozens of hots girls all over the world and they know about it. You guys, not so much.Self grandiosity is seldom flattering or productive. It is a charade with one's ego.

Toptraveler1
08-27-12, 22:29
Ouch, what a diatribe. But this really cracks me up because anyone who will check your post record will see that until now, you have ONLY managed to fill three pages of questions, most of them being about prostitutes. So far for your knowledge of the Russian culture. BTW you said in a post that you "spended a few years in Moscow", but a single search on your past posts reveals only questions about this city, such as "Hello, I need to know if there is any other expat club, except Che, in Moscow?" Or "Hello, anybody knows where we can find Toshkas in Moscow?". Not even talking of this one "Anyway if I was really thinking that ukrainians are so uncultured and russians are so good looking, I'll buy a ticket for Moscow tomorrow morning and would leave Ukraine forever."

So you spent a few years in Ukraine or in Moscow?

And NO reports featuring lots of vodka and poon, tips, elaboration about the nightlife, considerations about the slavic girls psyche, lists of the "in" spots, ect ect? Only those three pages of questions?

Mythomania is a severe disease, you should consult ASAP.The point was not what question I asked. I see that you spent a lot of time to analyse my past questions, comments and answers. Again if I was you I would spend this time to read some books or even to learn some Russian words. Maybe it could help you to get out from this deep ignorance. I know it is always difficult to change your habits but beleive me the beggining will just be hard but soon you will used to it.

Good Luck

Climaxnow
08-27-12, 23:07
I take girls where I want, they love it because they are lucky enough to be with me.Please explain why you feel they are lucky to be with you.

Prosal
08-28-12, 08:55
The point was not what question I asked. I see that you spent a lot of time to analyse my past questions, comments and answers. Again if I was you I would spend this time to read some books or even to learn some Russian words. Maybe it could help you to get out from this deep ignorance. I know it is always difficult to change your habits but beleive me the beggining will just be hard but soon you will used to it.Oh, yeah? Yawn, snooze.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?768-General-Info&p=1267085&viewfull=1#post1267085

Cruiser D
08-28-12, 13:26
It is just the way it is for me. In a few more years I am sure it will get a bit more difficult.

But I am confused about what you have to say. Are the cultured, red diploma girls who flock to Paris the same who love you for your firm trimed coat, two button suits and large faced watches?


Self grandiosity is seldom flattering or productive. It is a charade with one's ego.

DoctorOral
08-28-12, 13:42
We went from fucking young sexy girls in Kiev to taking them on romantic holidays to the US or Europe? Are you nuts?

Go open a forum for romantic dreamers. Or open a new website called internationalGirlsForLife

And tell me where to find my skinny blond super sucker!


It is just the way it is for me. In a few more years I am sure it will get a bit more difficult.

But I am confused about what you have to say. Are the cultured, red diploma girls who flock to Paris the same who love you for your firm trimed coat, two button suits and large faced watches?

Prosal
08-28-12, 13:54
It is just the way it is for me. In a few more years I am sure it will get a bit more difficult.

But I am confused about what you have to say. Are the cultured, red diploma girls who flock to Paris the same who love you for your firm trimed coat, two button suits and large faced watches?Leave my GFs alone. Obviously we don't target nor frequent the same kind of girls, as none of the ones I know would be interested to step a foot in Vegas. As for fur trimmed coats, as it seems that it obsesses you, I just completed my winter garde robe by buying last wekend a new Pal Zileri Sartorial leather duffle-coat entirely beaver trimmed, page 28 of their autumn-winter collection, thanks. I won't tell you the cost, as this is not a matter of importance when you have the financial means. And FYI, being refined and well-groomed doesn't mean that you want to target greedy golddiggers or piranhas, it just means that you have taste.

Jojosun
08-28-12, 15:07
Totally true. What strikes me up is that some guys here obviously don't accept that MANY girls (and not EE girls, ALL girls whose IQ is above 70) prefer to visit Le Louvre or the Villa Borghese in Rome than to be in a soulless and mercantile adult Dysneyland like Vegas.Opinions are subjective including yours.

Facts as published by www.dealchecker.com For the Top Autumn destinatins, do not include (Paris) , but includes Las Vegas among the Others Including New York And London Dublin, Sharm El shiekh, Dubai. Etc.

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Dubai.

You could argue that Dubai only has one season; hot. Even in the depths of winter the temperature will only fall so far as 15°C. Personally, we can't think of anywhere better to work on our tans ahead of the icy English winter!

And glorious sunshine isn't the only thing on Dubai's considerable menu. Glamour is the name of the game in this young metropolis; whilst you're there why not visit the world's tallest building; the 828-metre-high Burj Khalifa, head off on a desert adventure and. Of course. Shop.

Dubai is home to some of the world's biggest and glitziest shopping centres: check out Dubai Mall and the luxurious Mall of the Emirates for starters. We'll have some diamonds, if you're offering.

Compare Dubai hotel prices Compare flights to Dubai.

London.

2012 was always going to be about London's summer. But surprisingly we've seen even more interest in hotels for the autumn, suggesting London's time in the (questionable) sun might not be over just yet.

We Londoners are feeling pretty proud of our city at the moment. Because like any makeover worth its salt, the 2012 Games have made us look ten years younger!

We've got a great new public transport system, cheaper hotel rooms, amazing museums, sights and shops with fewer crowds. And we look much prettier too.

Compare London hotel prices Check out our London events guide.

Tenerife.

With the nickname of "Island of Eternal Spring" you'd be forgiven for not realising when autumn hits the buzzing resorts of Tenerife. But there are a million reasons to hit the largest. And arguably most beautiful. Of the Canary Islands in the cooler months.

Because, really, who doesn't like the sound of a little space with their sunshine? The crowds thin considerably in autumn, but you won't be compromising on your party prerogative (if that's your thing).

The bars party on in Playa de las Americas, the sun worshippers still gather on the beaches of Fañabe, and you definitely still need sun cream if you plan on hitting 18 holes in Golf del Sur.

Compare Tenerife hotels Compare flights to Tenerife.

Dublin.

We can think of at least two fabulous reasons to head to the Emerald Isle in the autumn:

1) The Irish countryside really can hold its own in the natural beauty department, especially when the leaves start turning golden!

2). Which is all very well, but those cold countryside walks can get a bit chilly after a while. Brrr. Luckily, Dublin is very accommodating when it comes to places to defrost; get cosy with a Guinness in a Victorian pub or get acquainted with Dublin's famously raucous nightlife!

More or a history buff than a party animal? Don't miss the atmosphere of Dublin's historic attractions either; Dublin Castle originated in the days of the Vikings and Trinity College is Ireland's first university.

Save on flights to Dublin Compare Dublin hotel prices.

Las Vegas.

The bright lights of Sin City have been immortalised on the silver screen more than almost any other city on earth, so whilst you've probably not personally woken up to a baby tiger prowling around your hotel suite (see: The Hangover) , you're probably aware of its reputation: a little wild, a lot hedonistic. But never, ever boring.

If you're going to gamble, here's the place to do it; the casinos of Vegas are some of the most famous in the world. Alternatively, if people-watching is your thing. You won't find finer than in this sparkling city of performers, dreamers and bone-fide eccentrics.

Compare Las Vegas hotels Compare flights to Las Vegas.

Rome.

If there's one thing Italians. And specifically Romans. Are the world experts in, it's beauty. Whether it's as small as a plate of perfectly presented bruschetta or as big and bold as the Colosseum, sheer aesthetic delight is the reigning currency in the ever-fascinating Eternal City. And long may it continue!

Summer in Rome can be a little stuffy and the heaving crowds can make for a painful queuing time at the gelataria. We find that La Dolce Vita is much more easily achieved in autumn when you're not being pushed into the Trevi Fountain by an army of clammy tourists.

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Lanzarote.

Forget what you think you know about Lanzarote; whilst it rose to fame as a low-cost, booze-soaked party capital, it's also the home of some pretty spectacular scenery, charming restaurants and quaint sleepy villages, too. It's not just foam parties 'till dawn. Though those in search of bottled debauchery certainly won't be found wanting!

When it comes to dramatic scenery, Lanzarote has got it sewn up. Those cooler autumn breezes make for much more pleasant mountain hiking, so you can up close and personal with the volcanic wilderness and coal-black beaches!

Compare Lanzarote hotels Compare Lanzarote holiday prices.

Orlando.

There are few places in the world that can match the sunshiny shores of Orlando for sheer, unadulterated fun. If you've got kids, you've probably already been accosted about one or all of the following: Disneyland (obviously) , SeaWorld and Universal Studios. If you haven't given in yet, this autumn might be the time to bow down to kid-pressure.

The heady combination of fabulous weather, top-class entertainment and happy kids means that Orlando gets a big dealchecker thumbs up as a hot-to-trot holiday destination this autumn!

Compare Orlando hotels Compare Flights to Orlando.

Sharm el Sheikh.

Far be it from us to argue with faultless weather, incredible diving spots and amazing prices on hotels. Sharm el Sheikh has all of this and more! It's shaping up to be one of the top holiday destinations this autumn. So looks like that summer tan won't be fading just yet after all!

Diving is the name of the game in Sharm el Sheikh, and you'll find plenty of it here. If you fancy sticking to pursuits that take place strictly above sea level, soak up the sun on Na'ama Bay or wander the markets of Ras Um Sid.

Compare Sharm el Sheikh hotels Compare Holidays to Sharm el Sheikh.

Follow us on twitter facebook.".

Honestly if I were to seduce a Lovely English girl"Whose IQ above 70" by telling her (I am taking you to Paris)

For the weekend, Iam sure she will turn round and say (Taxidermist).

A polite way of telling me To (Get Stuffed.).

AU Revoir.

Prosal
08-28-12, 17:51
do not include (Paris) , but includes Las Vegas.LOL. Those so-called "facts" are pure BS. Never heard of UNWTO numbers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

BTW tourism in Vegas is at 50% inbound tourism, ie potbellied hamburger-heating yanks dressed like slobs.

Prosal
08-28-12, 17:54
My bad, I meaned "domestic tourism".

PedroToronja
08-28-12, 18:26
I agree with what you say, people are free to choose; that said, as long as there will be some "France bashing", allow me to answer, and to show some national prideness. All that has began with a very innocent statement that I made (and which a pure fact) : that EE dyevs never have enough of Paris.

As a side note, people who say that Vegas is the most desirable destination on the planet could also surely say that Hard Rock Cafe is the best restaurant worldwide and that Expandable 2 is the best movie ever made. All that is in the same range.Actually Alex restaurant at the Wynn is my second choice, worldwide, for the best restaurant after La Tour D'Argent in Paris. Las Vegas can be a cheap and vulgar spot, or just about the world's best, depending on your budget and taste. Jasmin at Bellagio, Carne e Vino at Venetian, Le Cirque at Bellagio and many more are exquisite. No Hard Rock, but 4 Seasons, Wynn, Encore, Venetian, Palazzo and others are 5 diamond. 5 stars hotels with impeccable service and great views. The shows selection in Vegas is unlike anywhere else, including 7 Cirque de Soleil and a Horse Show Saloon that bests the original in Paris (I have been to both, several times) , have no match. Viva Las Vegas!

Golfinho
08-28-12, 18:33
Honestly if I were to seduce a Lovely English girl"Whose IQ above 70" by telling her (I am taking you to Paris)

For the weekend, Iam sure she will turn round and say (Taxidermist).

A polite way of telling me To (Get Stuffed.).

AU Revoir.Sheparding them around for a photo in front of Notre Dame and another one in front of the Tour Eiffel, and talking about IQ's. Enjoy this guy for the joke he is. Although it's true Russian girls have an interest for Nice, as place where emigres went after revolution and civil war.

YellowPaul
08-28-12, 18:54
Has anybody used this dating site www.lovemme.com?

They are having a social mixer on Nov 21st in Kiev when I will be around but they want $350 to attend. That's steep but might be worth it if I can a bunch of numbers in 1 shot. However from the previous mixers pictures on the website many of the women appear to be older.

Uke Boy
08-28-12, 19:05
Opinions are subjective including yours.Correct Jo. And the same for Prosal, CD and others.

In my experience, the girls here will go anywhere with you as long as you pay the bill!

I have gone with them to Crimea, Antalya, Croatia, Egypt, Jordan and the Maldives. These are visa free areas and all relatively cheap. Except for the Maldives. There you want to real bring a "10" and enjoy a special time.

I have also gone with them to London, Amsterdam, and yes, even Paris.

In the final analysis, for them, it is not that specific place that is important. What was important was that they got OUT of the country for a while and their problems and hopefully had a great time. For me, I always had a great time, especially at night!

Ronaldinjo
08-28-12, 19:55
Hello dear Liljoey, when are you planning to visit Kiev?

Bimbo Boy
08-28-12, 23:34
That's the problem with this thread, it has turned to nothing more than general p4p info on Kiev. The guys with the girlfriends no longer participate.Right on!

The guys with girlfriends are just so busy fucking them, while still trying to manage their normal professional and family life!

Seriously and not boasting, here is my current active girlfriends list (I mean screwed every few weeks):
Brazil : São Paulo (2) , Rio de Janeiro (2)
Germany: Hannover (1)
Netherlands : Amsterdam (1)
France : Paris (2). One is from Barnaul, Siberia, Russia, but now living in Paris.
Ukraine : Kiev (2) , Zaparoje (1) , Donetsk (1)
Russia : Habarovsk (1)

Age range is from 23 years old to 47 years old. The best fucks are the French girl from Paris and the Ukrainian girl from Zaparoje. See pics for some of them.

I am following Prosal's advice of inviting them to Paris and I have no room left in my schedule. Aaargh!

Now my problem is getting rid of some of them, without causing too much pain. These are nice ladies and they gave me much pleasure. But I must make room for the new ones that are waiting in line!

Any practical advice for gently dumping a girlfriend? I am serious, this is not a joke!

Regards. B. B.

Cruiser D
08-29-12, 00:31
Get on a plane, come to Kiev and find them yourself, they are all over the place. Stop being a wanker.

Good advice?


We went from fucking young sexy girls in Kiev to taking them on romantic holidays to the US or Europe? Are you nuts?

Go open a forum for romantic dreamers. Or open a new website called internationalGirlsForLife

And tell me where to find my skinny blond super sucker!

Cruiser D
08-29-12, 00:42
Just curious, you seem to be playing the great white hunter and being Huggy Bear at the club in the FSU. But yet your girls are cultured intelligenstsia, I'm seeing a disconnect here.


Obviously we don't target nor frequent the same kind of girls,We'll always have Paris. Yeah, not so much.

Golfinho
08-29-12, 01:14
Right on!

Any practical advice for gently dumping a girlfriend? I am serious, this is not a joke!Tell them your broke.

Right on

Stirling
08-29-12, 02:40
Must be a ***** to have those sort of problems, LOL. I had 2 in Canada and 2 in Austria and I don't have the time (or funds) to properly take advantage of them all. I bow to your superior abilities.

Stirling.


Right on!

The guys with girlfriends are just so busy fucking them, while still trying to manage their normal professional and family life!

Seriously and not boasting, here is my current active girlfriends list (I mean screwed every few weeks) :

Brazil : São Paulo (2) , Rio de Janeiro (2)

Germany: Hannover (1)

Netherlands : Amsterdam (1)

France : Paris (2). One is from Barnaul, Siberia, Russia, but now living in Paris.

Ukraine : Kiev (2) , Zaparoje (1) , Donetsk (1)

Russia : Habarovsk (1)

Age range is from 23 years old to 47 years old. The best fucks are the French girl from Paris and the Ukrainian girl from Zaparoje. See pics for some of them.

I am following Prosal's advice of inviting them to Paris and I have no room left in my schedule. Aaargh!

Now my problem is getting rid of some of them, without causing too much pain. These are nice ladies and they gave me much pleasure. But I must make room for the new ones that are waiting in line!

Any practical advice for gently dumping a girlfriend? I am serious, this is not a joke!

Regards. B. B.

GuyThatLikesStuf
08-29-12, 02:45
Almost any woman from the Ukraine will come to Vegas over Paris. It has to do with the possibility of finding away to stay in America. It is not being cultured that they care about. For opportunity they will do almost anything.

In Vegas a hot girl can pick up work as a stripper and make $5K per week under the table with no risk. When she has enough money, she can fly to New York, go to Little Odessa and pay a lawyer to secure her an educational visa to extend her stay. She can then stay in New York making $5K per week stripping with out risk or serving the greater mongering good with a little risk and more money.

After a time these girls will find away to get a greencard. This is what they want, besides going to the Apple Store and Saks. I know a number of these women and many of them get perm status and travel parole in 2 years. Sometimes I even see them back in Kiev when they visit home and I am working there. One of them even hooked me up with her sister.

Just to contribute to the board, Kiev is a very hard mongering spot. You have to work at it making tons of contact or pay for hit / miss service at Avalon, D'Lux or Buddha. I find the rate for a 3 hour deal is $200 or $300 with a pro. With a bit more effort you can find more attractive semi-pros, hate that term, that will give you more time but I also find I spend about $600 gifts, stuff and random shit and sometimes I have to drag their friends around too. Rio has always been a bust for me as the hot ones never want to go out and you spend a lot of money to figure this out.

Final thoughts, I stay at the Radisson on the hill above Avalon / Rio and the night guy never stops me and my girl.

Now, please do not visit New York in autumn. I do not want to hear how expensive it is to monger and have fun in the city. And beaver trimmed coats need not be worn to have fun or pick up chicks in NYC.

Gfeyup
08-29-12, 04:35
I love the women here, I seriously think they are the most beautiful on Earth.

I want to know if I can expect the same look of women when I go to Sevastopol or Yalta?

I've been to Kiev and Odessa and I couldn't tell any difference between the two cities.

Yalta and Sev. Have more ethnic russians, but they don't look much different than ethnic Ukrainians, right?

I guess what I'm asking is if the gorgeous girls I see in Kiev and Odessa are going to be replaced with something else in Yalta or Sevastopol, and I certainly hope not.

Thanks for reading.

Prosal
08-29-12, 08:36
Just curious, you seem to be playing the great white hunter and being Huggy Bear at the club in the FSU. But yet your girls are cultured intelligenstsia, I'm seeing a disconnect here.Well, as you're curious, I'll answer. I'm not a club guy, and get bored in a glam place after five minutes. Furthermore I hate the mind-numbing, spirit-crushing electro that is played in most clubs. I prefer fun and debauched DJs cocktail bars with good music (remixes of dancable charts) , life music clubs (like B2 in Moscow) and relaxed artsy bars (the kind that pullulate in Piter). The kind of places that lack in Kiev, which is very much a "glam club city" BTW. Furthermore I first of all go out to enjoy the atmosphere and get drunk, and my Modus operandi is to ignore most every girl in the place and audibly having a good time (which is an effective tactic when you are good looking and well-groomed). So you see I'm not a "great white hunter" by any means. As for my target group being girls of above average intellectual level, you are totally right. When a girl is smart it's an aphrodisiac for me. But it doesn't mean that I categorize women. I simply fuck the girls I build the best intellectual harmony with. This includes banging girls from all society tiers. Students, intellectual or arty girls, young successful professionals and down to strippers, single moms, etc. Elite party girls? More rarely.

Once more, being dressed with style in refinement is not necessarily synonim of futility and self-importance. It is just a question of taste.

Prosal
08-29-12, 09:18
Sheparding them around for a photo in front of Notre Dame and another one in front of the Tour Eiffel, and talking about IQ's. Enjoy this guy for the joke he is. Although it's true Russian girls have an interest for Nice, as place where emigres went after revolution and civil war.There is much more Russians vacationing or living in Cannes than in Nice. That said, the fact that you use wikipedia doesn't make of you a culturaly aware player, Golfinho. This kind of post says it all about you. (rolleyes)


I was in Minsk. She was international law student, well-spoken, blazing hot, just all round perfect company. Too bad she wasn't from poor family needing cash.

Prosal
08-29-12, 09:58
How to humanely get rid of a girlfriend?Be honest. When the thrill is gone, it's gone. Charity doesn't make a favor to none of the two persons involved.

Prosal
08-29-12, 12:12
What was important was that they got OUT of the country for a while and their problems and hopefully had a great time. For me, I always had a great time, especially at night!I agree. A nonchalant "You know I'm flying to Thailand soon and haven't found the right companion yet. Shall we go and buy you some bikinis?" is actually deadly effective and assures you her forever gratefulness. Admittedly, Paris or Rome are actually prime "weekend break" destinations for the dyevs, but for summer vacations, Goa, Thailand, Bali, ect remain at the top of their to-do list. I even noticed a trend for far destinations among my Russian GFs (at least among those who have the financial means to do so). Seems that "the farest is the better" currently. A Moscovite GF just sent me pics of her trekking vacations in New Zealand. Another one sent me a sms from Sydney. But Vegas? No way.

Jojosun
08-29-12, 14:13
LOL. Those so-called "facts" are pure BS. Never heard of UNWTO numbers?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism

BTW tourism in Vegas is at 50% inbound tourism, ie potbellied hamburger-heating yanks dressed like slobs.You don't get it.

Your Figures "UNWTO numbers " above show the total number of Tourists per country visited. And in the case of Your Beloved France that includes the great destination South Of France, Cannes, being tops among others in the South, as well as.

The Ski Destinations In the Winter.

We were talking about Paris and Cities, Right. Different Classes of Tourists between Those heading to South Of France and Ski destinations, and those who head to Paris.

Your figures include the hordes Of Russian And Chinese Tourists who can't get Visas to the UK. .

American Way of holidaying and dressing is more to do in a lot of cases with Practicalty, . Relaxation, by being on holiday.

" potbellied hamburger-heating yanks dressed like slobs". On holiday in Vegas, are letting their hair down, being natural.

I am sure they Couldn't Give a Fuck, even if they get snapped in a Photo Shoot by Say a French Photographer.

You can call them what you want, but You Can't Call them (POSERS) , can you?

El Cubanito
08-29-12, 14:53
Hello Guys,

I just landed yesterday from 2 week vacation to Kiev. I have been planningh this trip for a while, but because of work could not commit. Finally I had a 3 week window and was planning going to the phillipines Island, but change my mind on the last second. I got a great deal from Aeroflot and the rest theys ay it history. Basically, Ukraine is a lot like Cuba, if you know the language and have some game you can have a great, great time. My short coming was the language. But I still had a great time and lost my Ukraine Viginity on the 3rd day of being in Ukraine in a little city called Pavlograd. The cost was $150 for 2 hours, got it thru the help of a local who went got her for me.

I went to Rios and the other places, but I could not see myself paying $300 to $500 dollars when a number of other dudes have sunk there Johnson in there and spray it with all kind of milk. It is not the way I operate, I like normal girls. I did get lucky as I made friends with these locals who spoke English and got to hang out with them. They introduce me to one of there friends, who made the whole trip worth while. As all Ukrainian girls, she was a stunner in my book, a 9. She had great ass and knew how to use it.

I am a little jet lag right now, but will write more later on. For all of those who PM me, thanks, thanks a million for all of your help. You know who you are. I also want to thank my good buddy Rolls Buzz for keeping it real with me. Thanks

Uke Boy
08-29-12, 15:01
I love the women here, I seriously think they are the most beautiful on Earth.

I want to know if I can expect the same look of women when I go to Sevastopol or Yalta?

I've been to Kiev and Odessa and I couldn't tell any difference between the two cities.

Yalta and Sev. Have more ethnic russians, but they don't look much different than ethnic Ukrainians, right?

I guess what I'm asking is if the gorgeous girls I see in Kiev and Odessa are going to be replaced with something else in Yalta or Sevastopol, and I certainly hope not.Most people from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine are from the ethnic / linguistic group known as Eastern Slavs. Except for the fact that they contain more than their fair share of the most beautiful women in the world, you won't see any real difference whether you hunt in Kiev, Minsk or Moscow.

Jojosun
08-29-12, 15:29
LOL. .

BTW tourism in Vegas is at 50% inbound tourism, ie potbellied hamburger-heating yanks dressed like slobs.If it wasn't for the Sacrifices of probably some of the above, or most probably a lot of their Fathers and Grandfathers Dressed at the time in Uniform, Your National dish would have been German Sausages, Which are "The Wurst" LOL.

Jojosun
08-29-12, 15:59
Most people from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine are from the ethnic / linguistic group known as Eastern Slavs. Except for the fact that they contain more than their fair share of the most beautiful women in the world, you won't see any real difference whether you hunt in Kiev, Minsk or Moscow.Gfeyup, probably had in mind (The Crimean Tatars) , when he asked about Demographics of Ukraine, in Yalta and Sevastopol?

Prosal
08-29-12, 16:16
If it wasn't for the Sacrifices of probably some of the above, or most probably a lot of their Fathers and Grandfathers Dressed at the time in Uniform, Your National dish would have been German Sausages, Which are "The Wurst" LOL.FYI, if the frenchs would have not been here to help, the US national dish would be fish and chips now. (rolleyes)

Belvaros
08-29-12, 16:21
Almost any woman from the Ukraine will come to Vegas over Paris. It has to do with the possibility of finding away to stay in America. It is not being cultured that they care about. For opportunity they will do almost anything.

In Vegas a hot girl can pick up work as a stripper and make $5K per week under the table with no risk. When she has enough money, she can fly to New York, go to Little Odessa and pay a lawyer to secure her an educational visa to extend her stay. She can then stay in New York making $5K per week stripping with out risk or serving the greater mongering good with a little risk and more money.

After a time these girls will find away to get a greencard. This is what they want, besides going to the Apple Store and Saks. I know a number of these women and many of them get perm status and travel parole in 2 years. Sometimes I even see them back in Kiev when they visit home and I am working there. One of them even hooked me up with her sister.

Just to contribute to the board, Kiev is a very hard mongering spot. You have to work at it making tons of contact or pay for hit / miss service at Avalon, D'Lux or Buddha. I find the rate for a 3 hour deal is $200 or $300 with a pro. With a bit more effort you can find more attractive semi-pros, hate that term, that will give you more time but I also find I spend about $600 gifts, stuff and random shit and sometimes I have to drag their friends around too. Rio has always been a bust for me as the hot ones never want to go out and you spend a lot of money to figure this out.

Final thoughts, I stay at the Radisson on the hill above Avalon / Rio and the night guy never stops me and my girl.

Now, please do not visit New York in autumn. I do not want to hear how expensive it is to monger and have fun in the city. And beaver trimmed coats need not be worn to have fun or pick up chicks in NYC.Yes, Flashdancers in NY is FULL of EE girls that have taken the route you mention. At night there must be 30-35 Russkies etc there alone. I lived in Vegas and DID NOT come across any EE girls at the strip clubs and I used to go a lot. Sapphire, Rhino, Olympic Garden, Cheetahs etc etc, but many of the EE girls I came across in USA ALL WANTED to stay BAD. And in many cases they would just stay over their visa as an illegal or marry some sucker (oops I mean nice guy) for the green card.

Jojosun
08-29-12, 16:44
I love the women here, I seriously think they are the most beautiful on Earth.

I want to know if I can expect the same look of women when I go to Sevastopol or Yalta?

I've been to Kiev and Odessa and I couldn't tell any difference between the two cities.

Yalta and Sev. Have more ethnic russians, but they don't look much different than ethnic Ukrainians, right?

I guess what I'm asking is if the gorgeous girls I see in Kiev and Odessa are going to be replaced with something else in Yalta or Sevastopol, and I certainly hope not.

Thanks for reading.If you mean the Crimean Tatars, they are small % there in both cities.

Demographics.

As of the Ukrainian Census conducted on January 1, 2001, the population of Yalta is 80, 500. The main ethnic groups of Yalta are: Russians — 65, Ukrainians — 25. 7, Crimean Tatars — 4, Belarusians — 2. The absolutely predominant language in the streets of the city is Russian. This total number does not comprise the population of neighboring villages and small towns. The metropolitan area population is about 125, 000."

In Sevastopol their % is less than in Yalta.

That said, some of the Tatar girls that I saw in Kiev were really hot.

The first girl that I banged In Kiev was a Tatar. Got her number of all places on Kiev Post newspaper. An ad by Marina Agency. US$ 80 for one hour.

She was a student moonlighting on weekends. Gave me her personal number to meet her at cheaper rates. Didn't meet her again.

Uke Boy, then reported that Kiev Post was bought by a Pakistani Businessman, and the first thing that he did was stopping the escort and massage ads section in the paper.

I guess he wanted "Hallal Meat " only, LOL.

Jojosun
08-29-12, 16:53
Gfeyup, probably had in mind (The Crimean Tatars) , when he asked about Demographics of Ukraine, in Yalta and Sevastopol?Re-read his post, he meant Russians and Ukrainians in both cities. He didn't mean Tatars.

Jojosun
08-29-12, 17:12
Well, as you're curious, BTW. Furthermore I first of all go out to enjoy the atmosphere and get drunk, and my Modus operandi is to ignore most every girl in the place and audibly having a good time (which is an effective tactic when you are good looking and well-groomed). So you see I'm not a "great white hunter" by any means. As for my target group being girls of above average intellectual level, you are totally right. When a girl is smart it's an aphrodisiac for me. But it doesn't mean that I categorize women. I simply fuck the girls I build the best intellectual harmony with. This includes banging girls from all society tiers. Students, intellectual or arty girls, young successful professionals and down to strippers, single moms, etc. Elite party girls? More rarely.Question 1. Are you then a Poser doing that in the clubs.

And if "most every girl in the Club " can't stand Posers and deicde To Ignore You. Then What? Have a wank Later. Considering that you say you only do freebies Who throw themselves at you, and you don't Fuck Pros or semi Pros.

Strippers for Free, Where and When.

Who did the Stripping, You Or Them?

Uke Boy
08-29-12, 21:02
Gfeyup, probably had in mind (The Crimean Tatars), when he asked about Demographics of Ukraine, in Yalta and Sevastopol?Jo, I did say "most." Yes, there are the Crimean Tatars as well as the Tatars of Tatarstan region in Russia, along with the native tribes throughout the country but I do not think that was what Gfeyup getting at. Their numbers are relatively small.

In Ukraine, Other than Ukrainians, Belorussians and Russians, they have a lot of people of Hungarian, Romanian, and Polish descent especially in the west of the country as the principal minorities.

Jojosun
08-29-12, 22:53
Jo, I did say "most." Yes, there are the Crimean Tatars as well as the Tatars of Tatarstan region in Russia, along with the native tribes throughout the country but I do not think that was what Gfeyup getting at. Their numbers are relatively small.

In Ukraine, Other than Ukrainians, Belorussians and Russians, they have a lot of people of Hungarian, Romanian, and Polish descent especially in the west of the country as the principal minorities.Yes, you are right.

I already posted to correct what I thought, but I don't have the privilege of Instant Posting.

Big Brother On ISG has to read them first.

Global Surfer
08-29-12, 23:31
Most people from Russia, Belarus and Ukraine are from the ethnic / linguistic group known as Eastern Slavs. Except for the fact that they contain more than their fair share of the most beautiful women in the world, you won't see any real difference whether you hunt in Kiev, Minsk or Moscow.A considerable number (around 40%) of Ukrainians show R1a genes from a single male. Same holds true for Russians and Polish. However, I think, demographics on ground are very different. Other ethnic origins like Siberians, Uzbek, and Turkmen etc are over represented in WG population.

Crimeans Tatars are a Turkic ethnic group. I have no idea whether they are actually related to Volga Tatar or not. My experience with a Tatar from Kazan I met in Dubai was excellent both in terms of looks and service. It was probably much cheaper than Kiev as well. USD 250 LT