View Full Version : Kyiv
I'll be in Kiev from Jan 18 to Feb 2nd if anyone is interested in getting together for some trollop trolling.
Maharadjah
01-11-05, 19:14
As i prepared my trip to Kiev, i get internet contacts with some girls. I received a reply of one of that, who asked me to paid her a sort of phone card (and send her the number) to see her. Her email was followed by a couple of photo of her. Does anyone has any info of that ?
MR
MR
Are you as naïve as you make yourself out to be? If you are, then please bring $100,000 in small denomination dollar bills and I will sell you one of Kiev's finest bridges. You can then set up toll booths and charge anything you want to all motorists.
Yes, this is a telephone scam. In this case, you will pay and you will get some nice photos for your efforts that you now have.
Anything here, and for that matter, most anyplace else, that requires you to prepay for such information as a phone number or other very basic information definitely is a scam.
How about if you just stick to the tried and true when you get here like Gia, River Palace and clubs like 111. Otherwise I suspect you will end up very unhappy and much poorer with no scores.
There are lots of folks here who will be happy to separate you from your money and give you nothing in return if you let them.
Bez Bezarra
01-12-05, 02:04
Mojo Hairballs!
Please, oh please don't send that sluts your money!
If you really want the best contact in Kiev, just send three
new hundred dollar bills and 47 kopeks to Puke Boy,
then at 2:00 o'clock in the morning, go downstairs in
the train station and wait next to the used condom
recycle bin for ViagraMars to SMS you a phone number
for his old cleaning woman maid. She has false teeth,
AND a brown glass eye too.
Well, yes, of course, that what the 47 kopeks are for!
Zdarovya!
Hey Maharadjah,
You said the Kiev girl sent you some pics. Are the pics you posted those pics? Which internet chat site did you use? When will you be in Kiev, as I am also planning a trip?
Since we are on the subject of education I thought I would shed a little light on the not so honest world. May you never hear these lines in person.
1. Lap dances....only $5 dollars (don't ever try to figure out how they got more than $ 50 dollars out of you ) you might kick yourself for a long time.
2. Oh! is $16 dollars a drink to much to pay..that's our normal price.
3. Don't I look like a women (actually I look better than a women)
4. (This one kills me) Oh, when you use a charge card the price is more
5 Well, my prices start at $500. If you don't have that much to spend, mmmmh, maybe I could shake you hand for $425.
6. Don't forget this one..."I'll be right back...honest"
How hard is it to get a visa for a ukranian girl who is not rich to the US or canada?
Marc25,
I can only comment about the American part of your question, someone else will have to update you on Canada.
If she is young (under 30) single, not rich, has no relatives in the USA or any other reason to go to the USA such as education, has no real ties to Ukraine such as taking care of parents or children, does not own her own apartment here and probably another dozen or so reasons, then the chances of a visa are ZERO. Forget about it. It is not worth it since ultimately it will end in heartbreak.
The Consulate also now requires a personal interview of all applicants where all the above issues will be fully and completely probed. That wait right now for an interview is from one month to seven weeks if someone applied today. She must file an application and make all payments for the interview (except for the visa itself) that are non-refundable when it is denied. Also a stamp is placed in the Ukrainian passport showing the visa denial and another application cannot be made for at least one year.
It is easier for you to come here. Much much easier.
The only other option is the fiancée visa. That is another story but here the burden would be on you. Plus you would have only 30 days before you either married her or she would have to go back here, or remain in the USA as an illegal. If she does the illegal route, forget about any future fiancée visas or any other request you may have with the Embassy or US Immigration for a very long time. You may also get a visit from the FBI if they go after her.
It is not a pretty picture.
Your Dog,
If you believe in such internet sites here will get such ladies to your door, I have a second bridge I would like to sell you, cheap.
Bez Bezarra
01-13-05, 04:28
YolkBoy.
I thought she can stay for 90 days, not 30.
Fiancee costs about $1000 to $1200, but have heard some
claim they can get it for less, takes 6 months.
Small price to pay for a 9 or 10 if she's not
goldigger or psycho.
O, sory my dyslexia, can't get yer naim rite.
Uke Boy,
That's shocking reading! Last year I sponsored a visiting Russian woman to France (her brother, a friend of mine, was a PhD student and couldn't do so). All I had to do was promise to cover the cost of her stay (in practice, of course, her bro did it), show that I had an adequate appartment and pay a 40 euro stamp duty. I tried to explain to the immigration official who dealt with the case that the young woman was NOT my fiancee, but she interrupted me with a characterisic candidness: "Monsieur, I do not care if she is your fiancee, your house keeper or your neighbour's mistress. You have promised to pay for her and proven that you can do so. If you renege we'll arrest you. If she commits a crime we'll arrest her. A point, c'est tout!" Indeed... it took Olga 18 days to get her visa from the French consulate in St. Petersburg. No interview was needed.
My guess is New York won't be allowed to host the 2012 Olympics. Countries in the third world wouldn't vote for a location that makes it near impossible for their supporters to even attend the opening ceremony... ;-)
Mangy Cuss,
No problems with the name thing.
Sorry, with so many visa variations, you are right, it is 90 days. However, the cost is actually higher. You will have to prove that you met the lady such as photos of you two together. That means you will have to come here and actually get acquainted first. Of course, in your case Mange, if you sent the photos to Immigration that you have on here, you could bring over all of them!
Those 90 days will be pure heaven to most guys. But once you marry, then hell sets in. 70% of these marriages end in divorce within the first year. In some cases, her expectations (and yours) are usually greater than the subsequent reality and big trouble usually follows.
A WORD OF WARNING: Every lady here, with NO exceptions, knows about US divorce laws, alimony, community property and how to obtain welfare and instant permanent US residency based on filing charges of abuse against you. If you go this route, be very very careful.
It is far better to come here as many times as possible and enjoy the local pleasures than to get wrapped up in that nonsense.
By the way, a 9 or a 10 will cost you even more since she is likely to be a psycho gold digger.
Priamos,
Can't and won't argue with you. The system is set up to keep people out. All of it has been in place since before 9/11 and has gotten even worse and more restrictive since then.
IMHO, Uke boy is 110% correct. Once they have the power ring on their finger (and a piece of paper) the power shifts to them absolutely.
I wish I still travelled in my job, as those were the best times. Freedom to come and go, shag women easily and no real cares about any of it.
I wish y'all good hunting and lots of fun - sometimes promotions can ruin your life and end the good times prematurely.
The reason that the consulates are so tight out there is very simple, just to make the flow of cash out of it..
Just figure out how many hours it will take to get a U.S, Schengen or U.K visa for at least 6 months for any Ukrainian visa with the little help of the exchange of 1000 bucks...
Keep in mind that there's always a backdoor in Ukraine and that's why I know some girls who even have 2-3 international passports at the same time.
We have been through this before Veggie.
I can tell you this, ordinary people here cannot get such visa access for any amount. I know, I have talked with many about this issue and with more than a few who have tried various means and failed. And these are people who know their way about the system here very very well.
While I am sure you are right that visa bribery does go on, it more than likely involves organized crime who work in such areas as [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908) for purposes of prostitution and maybe even a slave trade. It is a fact that many Eastern European women (Ukrainians included) end up in places such as Turkey, Cyprus, Japan and in much of Western Europe as prostitutes.
Maybe you can tell us how you know so intimately well this dark side of visa issuance...Please, details...help the rest of us get visas for the ladies as easy as you seem to be able to make it with your in depth knowledge.
Share, please.
All the info and knowledge I've shared so far is out of concrete examples and experience,as I have no possible gain of misleading or making up stories whatsoever.
The issue of visa nonsense is not anything of the dark side,but rather something revealed and apparent to anyone pertaining to the subject.
That's why the chance of any Ukrainian to receive a visa from Western Europe(excluding ex-Soviet countries,Switzerland and Finland) and the States except for very short touristic visas is ZERO.
It's only a matter of making the right contacts at the right time as it happens with everything in Ukraine.
Even any travel agent or rent-apartment company would be more than glad to serve for the purpose..
Veggie,
What you wrote was your usual trash. All nonsense and less than useless.
You know very well you never have shared anything with us except your ego. And we don't want that.
As I said to you in my previous message, we have been through this before. Ukrainians, many of them, DO get tourist and other visas the normal legal way. I very much doubt that you have flown to Western Europe and the USA. I have, and to many cities. Flights from Kiev to and from every major city in Europe and New York and Toronto are filled to capacity in most cases. And in each and every case, at least 70% of the passengers are visa carrying Ukrainians.
I agree you need the right contacts here but getting visas through the back door requires the heavy duty type to help. That means one of two routes here, a very high government official, and that is prohibitively expensive for most people, or organized crime, expensive and very difficult to find the right person. As a rule, they don't advertise.
For what purpose a travel agent or apartment rental company serves in your posting, I don't even want to know.
Your previous post and earlier posts from this year boasted about that you knew the process of getting visas and passports through the back door. So tell us how, exactly, that you do it that it is so simple for you.
Just Do It
01-13-05, 21:47
Marc,
UKE BOY is correct that is just the way it is in the U.S. You must visit her and take pictures. You must write or email her and keep copies as all this has to accompany her to the Embassy. The cost if you and her do it yourselves can be as little as $600 plus air fair for her to here. Time frame is dependant on which service center you live in ie. Vermont may be 6 months Texas 9 and last check Nebraska was close to 12 and this is only after all and I mean every paper is correctly filed.
This lets her visit you for 90 days then it either home for her or to the marriage alter for you.
Now if she has had a visa here before and did not over stay it you may and I mean may be able to get her a tourist visa but highly unlikly.
If you want more info pm me and I can share some sites that explain it in greated detail.
There are only two very simple rules valid for Ukraine:
* It cannot be compared to any other country.
** There are no real facts involved as the line between virtuality and reality is substantially negligible.
What's the point of being there for anyone who's not even aware of the weirdness?
There are only two very simple rules valid for a Vegamars post::
* It cannot be compared to any other from humans.
** There are no real facts involved as the line between his fantasy and his reality are one and the same.
For anyone who is aware of his weirdness, reading or even understanding his posts is a waste of time.
By the way, there is nothing here any "weirder" than anyplace else. 99% of life here is the same as anywhere else. Perhaps, Vega, you could use some real professional help for your problems?
Bez Bezarra
01-14-05, 13:51
Listen SpoogeToy,
You are failing to recognize that OurFavoriteMartian is always correct
about everything, in his infiniteness, he knows all and sees all with his
amazing all seeing brown eye.
He has shared so many concrete examples of figuring out how many hours
exchanging $1000 6 month Schengen passports, that no one can understand
why its just not perfectly clear to you.
Its also perfectly simple to comprehend Vagina's many backdoor cash flow girls, and their meaningless darkside does not mislead his possible gains.
Everyone else here on WSG trusts his judgement that is what Ukraine is all about, just having a travel apartment agent being there at the right time.
Maybe if you would just spend less time on earth, you could finally begin to know and honor how the negligible facts between his virtuality always seem to support the apparency of his subjects.
Roger Mellie
01-14-05, 14:52
This is a cross posting from the "general" board, but it refers to apartments in Kiev.... and besides someone needs to change the subject and introduce some factual material.
Gents, I have a confession to make, whenever people ask about recommended apartment agencies, I always tell them a few that I dont use. Thats cause I wanted to keep my favourite one to myself.
Well they have given me such good service that I feel obliged to publicise them. They are called Edem Club and their web site is at:
http://apartments.com.ua/
They also do the visa invites for a paltry $30. And if you are into that sort of thing, like most apartment agencies, they also run a marriage agency.
Edem Club wins the prestigious January 2004 Roger Mellie Stamp of Approval (from now on known as the "Zolotoy Hui" award)
Manwich,
What happened to you??? Is our favorite Vegetable your Siamese twin hermaphrodite? Are you two one and the same? Or did you commune with his sprit and it entered your nether regions and took hold of your balls and forced you to write that painful post.
Scary, ain't it, that you can write like him? The only difference was that you almost made sense.
Please don't do that again.
I hope we can now get back to the business at hand...
Business at Hand
I found a new web site today. http://www.barbie.com.ua It is only in Russian but would seem to be easy to navigate if you know basic Russian. There are 10 ladies listed on the site. "Barbie" herself is a rather hot looking blond. Also good is that the photos seem to be accurate.
Prices are reasonable, $60-$70 for one hour and $250 for the night. As with everything else here, these prices could be negotiated downwards.
I have not tried them yet but one or two I may try in the near future.
dreamed-escort.com and girls-in.net two examples of sites for those looking for top quality
There's always the better option of freebies via sites like date.com or loveme.ru
Space Cadet,
Anyone who comes to Ukraine and uses any site that you recommend, especially dreamed-escort.com and/or girls-in.net needs immediate and intense psychological counseling. They, like you, would have to be crazy to pay 750 Euros or $1000 per day for the same quality they can get for much much less if you tried almost any other site. Gia's girls are only $350 per day and most are just as good as the ladies on these two sites! These two sites of yours are for naïve and desperate fools.
The so-called freebie sites like date.com or loveme.ru are not all that freebie. There are a lot of pros and semi-pros who advertise their wares but at least their prices are more reasonable than those two rip-off sites you mentioned.
Loveme.ru is a problem for most guys since it is in Russian only.
As I've specified, the two sites mentioned are for all those who send me many messages asking for top quality..
All the girls on those websites are from the modelling world and the prices quoted are much cheaper than contacting the modelling agencies directly, as the top agencies like karin and namemodels demand as high as 1000 for just 2hrs.
Agencies like gia and kievescort are on a different category with more regular-type girls with lower prices.
Moreover, uaescort.com and kiev-x.com are also worth trying for reasonable priced independent girls.
On the other hand, all the girls on date.com and loveme.ru are completely regular freebies, as I've experienced to contact and meet many girls from there.( One example is Irina from Kiev-- you can find the details referring to my post in November 2003-- so I'm still in touch with her )
Please be aware that not all the websites ending with ru like loveme.ru is completely in Russian! Some may have English translation programs associated for god's sake..
Martian Chronicler,
You tell a great story. Maybe we will even believe the complete fiction that you have had tons of requests for top quality model prostitutes.
Top quality sex is not some brainless cold skinny model type bimbo who charges you $1000 per day for the privilege of being with her. Her being a "model" does not at all guarantee good sex, at any price. The only guarantee is that you will spend $1000 and you may be the one getting royally screwed.
In my time here, I have been to my share of parties with these models in attendance. I have found them to be utterly a waste of time. I have had my pleasures with two of them, but they have not been any better than anyone else. To be honest, I have had much much better and none have been models of any price.
Let's try this again Mr. Fantasy, kievescort does not exist anymore, it is now kievbeauties.com. Can you read and can you assimilate facts and not repeat your errors?
Please do not mislead as you always do. These date and match sites have a good amount of pros and non-pros who are also listed. I am not sure why you want to get into a pissing contest with me on this issue since anyone who goes to these sites can tell just who is providing the facts and who is just pure bullshit.
The same with the .ru sites. They are all primarily in Russian although some may have limited English pages. Besides, it is meant for Russians meeting Russians and English is not their native language.
Just relax,hoping desperately that you've not missed out any points..
Meanwhile,I'll keep on sharing all the experience and details with the really willing and eager mongerers....
Vegamite,
I am very relaxed and I am sure I have not missed any of your points since you never have any.
By all means, if you are going to share, please do. Just make sure it is relevant and real for the rest of us here on this planet Ukraine.
I see the claws are out and the hissing has started :-)
Anyway Uke Boy I presume you are on the (hallowed) ground and beaming in live from the chocolate factory? Don't waste your time arguing with Vague-amars you've got the keys to the sweet shop (use them) :D The site you recommended looks pretty good so if you decide to give Barbi a spanking, give her one from me :-)
Vegamars, the sites you recommeded do deserve a mention but I think they are well overpriced for most mongers on their way to nirvana! There probably will be people who read this forum who might have that kind of cash lying around but for the rest of us it's going to take a big win on the lottery. Those sites seem to be aimed at people who want their pussy flown in so they don't have to put the yards in themselves.
The fact remains that Ukraine has been blessed with beautiful women and because of this we need to explore every oportunity we can find to succesfully tame our libido's. I'm sure Mangus will be along shortly to explain it in a more dignified manner :D
Bez Bezarra
01-18-05, 03:04
And now, language tape number 17.
Otherwise known as:
Essential russian mongerers tutorial for Vulva-farts escort sex.
(We got your dignified right here Ludacrisp!)
Dobry vecher, mat' vashu v 3 kresta!
(Good evening, and fuck your mother and 3 crosses too!)
Rad tya videt', zasranets!
(Nice to see you, filthy bitchs!)
Kak sam-to, suchiy potrokh?
(And you, bitchs giblets?)
Huyem grushi okolachivat'.
(Take a swing at pear trees with your prick)
Na huya popu garmon?
(What the fuck does the priest need an accordian for?)
Bez myla v zhopu lest'.
(Crawl in your ass without soap)
Pizda s zubami.
(Pussy with teeth)
And now especially for our friend VelaMints:
Huyishko
(Tiny teenie-weenie little prick)
Huyeglot
(Dick swallower)
Zagloti s yaichkami!
(Take the whole thing in your mouth, and balls too!)
Ot'ebis' ot menya.
(Fuck off, you bore me.)
Tried River Palace. Nice place, but the women really try to overcharge. I was asked for $200. which I quickly refused. It was then dropped to $100. but since she was just a 5 or maybe a 6 in looks I decided to pass. By the way this offer was in US dollars.
just a little glimpse of a freebie from loveme.ru
Who has experience with the agency chance for love? An agency for dating and brides wives from Russia and Ukraine? The pictures are nice but the rates only for the addresses seem to be a little to expensive especially if they are not efficient in the search of a nice woman. Thanks in advance for your advices or experiences with this agency.
Bez Bezarra
02-09-05, 13:10
just a real photo taken by a monger
Maharadjah
02-09-05, 21:04
Hi,
I will be in Kiev on 26/02 for 1 week.
I have already rent an apartment near the famous place.
If somebody there at this time feel free to PM me.
I will share with pleasure a glass of vodka !!
MR
Mangus Man,
I she from "GiA International Erotic Models Agency"
She is beautiful!
Well its been about a month since I have been able to read about Ukraine here. For whatever reason having trouble bringing up the forum. Oh well. Nice to see the free language lessons by Magnus. Sweet haha
Well not going to make my winter trip to Kiev this year. Sad. Still I am going to make it there this summer. No doubts August celibreating Ukraine independance... Hate to be away for so long. I can imagine whats changed.
I was wondering though, if anyone has any connections in realistate there. Was thinking of making a purchase or so there. Maybe even a flat for myself. I have a few connections, but I want to shop some see if I am over looking anything might be good. Littel off topic I know. Looking for places instead of a peace. Well who says they cannot be connected.
Well happy hunting guys
Hi everybody,
I have been a read only member since autumn of last year. This will change now. I have been in UA 4 times since and very soon I will give you my summed up impressions and advices. I have already made personal contacts to other members via Private Messages and I would like to expand that experience. How about meeting one of you guys in case you are in Kiev like myself between 18th and 22nd of February? Waiting for your replies.
Dear Fellow Members,
I was in Kiev end of January. Have been in Kiev many times and speak a little Russian.
As it was awfull cold I didn't want to pick up a streetgirl at the Kreshatik and as it was rather early in the evening, around 18.00 hrs, gioing to places like River Palace, Modabar etc is not possible. Still closed.
So I looked through the adds in the Kiev Post.
This is a english journal, free in a lot of restaurants, with a lot of info on Kiev and, adds from escort agencies.
But, I want to see the goods before buying so I called several of them.
Everybody answered: all our ladies are beatifull but you can't see them beforehand.
With one exeption: Vice Sisters.Tel +38(097)3540699
So I took a taxi and drove to the adress. Called them in the taxi, handed the phone to the cabdriver so he understood where to bring me.
Not far from the centre but in an unbelievable shaby neighborhood he dropped me.
I told him to wait for 10 minutes and ringed the doorbell.
To make the story short: some nice and some ugl girls.
I chose one, took her to my appartment and we had great sex.Unbelievable.
She did everything. $50 an hour.
I highly recommend this agency.
Please, don't start a discussion about the price I paid.
We have done that before.
If you believe I paid too much AND you have been in Kiev before and paid much lower prices, please send me an e-mail.
If you have an opinion without any experience in that city, keep your mouth shut.
Happy mongfering,
Fleurfleur
Most Agencies are rip offs. 50% of the letters are form letters, 30% are 'girls' just looking for you to send them money for various reason/excuses, 15% are girls who want to see how much you'll spend $ on a date with them and 5% are 'real'. I've had good luck with loveme.ru (free) and dating.com (small fee). While I was in Kiev for 16 days I dated 30 non pro's and 4 pro's from the River Palace. Of the 30 non pro's I dated I only met ten from the internet, the other 20 I met walking the street, globus, metrograd and clubs.
Who has experience with the agency chance for love? An agency for dating and brides wives from Russia and Ukraine? The pictures are nice but the rates only for the addresses seem to be a little to expensive especially if they are not efficient in the search of a nice woman. Thanks in advance for your advices or experiences with this agency.
Hi all,
Where do you all stay when you go? Any recommendations on GF hotels or appartments in the $50-$75 range? I'm looking for a place in the center that has decent security. I searched past posts but didn't find anything.
armorer,
i do not know how long you have been away from kiev, but if you want to buy real estate, you have waited too long, at least for now. prices have risen at an unbelievable speed. for example, a one bedroom in the center that was selling for $15,000 three years ago was recently sold for $45,000. according to some recent news, prices for apartments last year rose anywhere from 60% to over 100%. the same is true for apartment rentals.
i am not in the real estate business so i cannot figure out why this is all happening and more importantly, when it may end. part of it is pure speculation. given that the vast majority of the population does not even make $1,000 per month as income, i am not sure how long it can be sustained. at some point, i am sure there will be some correction in the situation and prices might level out or even drop but for now, they are only rising.
Catalyst,
I live here so I do not need to look for apartments but there has been much posted on the topic. For example, Roger Mellie, a major Moscow poster and occasional visitor to Kiev in January recommended http://apartments.com.ua/
Just look on page two of this Kiev forum for his comments.
I just checked their site and there are many apartments in your range. I also recall that many other posters such as Snowy have also contributed much in the same vein.
you have a lot more experience in kiev then i do, but most of the populace of the ukraine doesn't make more then 200-300usd/month. if you are making 1k/month even in kiev you are living large.
look for real estate prices in kiev to keep going up slowly until they spike when the ukraine joins the eu in 4-6 years - there was seemly a small spike after the recent elections. however the ukraine might bust if they can't get a handle on their tax reforms or can't handle capitalism (let's not call it democracy). i'm looking at buying a western 1 br move in on khreshchatyk, i'm figuring around 90-100k. sure i would have love to have bought it 3 years ago for 40-60k but hey, i can just about buy a parking space in the us city i live in for 90-100k and there ain't no river palace around here. ;)
armorer,
i do not know how long you have been away from kiev, but if you want to buy real estate, you have waited too long, at least for now. prices have risen at an unbelievable speed. for example, a one bedroom in the center that was selling for $15,000 three years ago was recently sold for $45,000. according to some recent news, prices for apartments last year rose anywhere from 60% to over 100%. the same is true for apartment rentals.
i am not in the real estate business so i cannot figure out why this is all happening and more importantly, when it may end. part of it is pure speculation. given that the vast majority of the population does not even make $1,000 per month as income, i am not sure how long it can be sustained. at some point, i am sure there will be some correction in the situation and prices might level out or even drop but for now, they are only rising.
Roger Mellie
02-21-05, 23:16
You missed it (the chance to buy). I was looking to buy in January but prices went up 5k a day.
A 35 square metre (390 sq feet) shoebox just off Khreschatik that was on at 80k was 85k when I went back next day to try to put a deposit on it. Then it disappeared and reappeared 5 days later at 110k. It wasnt fully western, and it wasnt even one bedroom. It was a studio. Moscow Russian money has flooded Kiev in the weeks since Yuschenkos inauguration. Prices have gapped higher. There are not enough places on the market to meet the demand from sudden buyers from Europe and Russia. Just about every place that was for sale, has been bought, and anyone who was thinking about selling is holding on to see when the price rises will stop. There is suddenly no supply.
I dont believe you will get a western place of any size sub 100k now in Khreschatik / Bessarabska.
Come to think of it, if you can actually put down a deposit successfully on a SOVIET quality place within 200 - 300 yards of Khreschatik - Bessarabska - Baseina for sub 100k I would be very surprised.
Came back from two weeks in Kiev a couple of weeks ago, and a fine time it was too. A bit of a strange trip in that I met a girl from Kharkov in 44 on my second night who was in Kiev for a month finishing up her dissertation and hooked up with her the whole trip. I’ve always been of the opinion that there is no point doing this in EE – I don’t go there to meet a girlfriend and there are so many opportunities – but in this case I couldn’t think of any reason not to stay with her – she’s was great looking, good company and a laugh, the sex was great and she was really easy going. Not the most adventurous trip, but definitely as good a trip as I’ve had.
I’ll do a couple of posts since there hasn’t been a huge amount of posting recently, due to evil outside forces! This one is more of survival tips for Kiev which I noticed on this trip and I’ll do one on clubs and bars. I’ll also try and get round to a posting on pricing in RP based on a trip there and some conversations with some of the girls there.
First thing to say is that I’d had really taken on board how small Kiev is. It’s a fairly big city overall, but the action is really squeezed into a fairly small area. If you look back at the forum, you’ll see the same clubs mentioned. It’s not because visitors are boring and are hiding a few gems from others (okay, there is probably a little of this going on!), it’s just there are just a handful of good clubs and bars. More than enough to keep you busy on a trip, but don’t think there are loads of hidden places. I was talking to some students I met and asked where they went, when they didn’t come to the better known clubs – they didn’t have anywhere special. It’s a bit circular for the types of girls you can meet and pull in a club/bar (P4P or freebie) – they’re attracted to the places where foreigners/richer people might go, we’re attracted to the places the girls go.
With that said, onto the things I learnt this trip:
It’s cold in EE in Winter. Anyone who goes and complains about the weather should be slapped. Repeatedly. This said, don’t make my mistake – don’t book an apartment on a hill. Every trip outside of the flat was like a death run. Stay on the flatlands. It snowed on the second day I was there. They were thinking about clearing it 9 days later, but then it snowed again.
You need some sort of mini-torch. CaT’s magnificent genital warts post on the Moscow board makes the best case for this I will ever read, but I was going to recommend them for those renting apartments. I’ve never rented a bad place, but I’ve never rented anywhere where the stairway wasn’t a disaster area – wires hanging out on every floor and no-one seems to have responsibility for maintaining the lights. You get home at 4am, you’ll be glad of a torch so you can see the security key pad and get up the stairs without killing yourself.
Talking of death….the drivers here are insane. I don’t know how I didn’t notice this before. I treasured the moments when the taxi drivers had one hand on the wheel, which was one hand more than they usually had. Exactly at what point on the motorway, in icy conditions does it seem like the right fucking time to change your sim card?! Maybe driving with your knees in the snow is part of the driving test in Ukraine. Wear a seat belt. I got winged in one journey and was glad of the safety measure.
Revolution may have been in the air, but it’s not exactly changed the place. It wasn’t really top of anyone’s mind - it just seems like something fun that happened a few weeks ago. On the plus side, if you’re in the market for an orange hat, scarf or mug, Kiev is a must. Fair play to the international monger though – never one to miss a beat the second most used chat up line overheard this trip (after the compulsory “do you speak English?”) was some comment or question about the Orange revolution – we’re a deep bunch! Special mention goes to some New Yorker trying this approach with some girl in 44 and getting a detailed and impassioned lecture on how Yanukovich had the election stolen – the line you were looking for was “I don’t care, I just want to fuck you”. Remember if you are going to go political, 40%+ voted blue.
Internet – if there is somewhere with a broadband connection, I don’t know where it is. If you think you want 1/2 hour on the net, buy an hour – always double your time as when your initial period runs out, you’ll probably only just have accessed the first address you wanted.
Cab drivers – it’s been said many times before, but I’ll say it again. Agree the price up front. I forgot to do this once and got someone who had clearly learnt his trade from London cabbies. The journey to the restaurant on the other side of the river was 15 Hrv, on the way back he wanted 120! His logic – after midnight prices and an extra charge for crossing the river (what is Ukrainian for “oohh – south of the river at this time of night, guv – it’ll cost you”). Quite magnificently he added the extra 20 on arrival at the flat for snow tax! I was tempted to pay him for chutzpah. I didn’t.
Visas – As far as I can tell there is no change in policy. You need an invite, you need a visa. Rumours persist that you can currently buy a three month visa at Borispol, but I know no-one who has ever actually done this and the guy I had at passport control said it wasn’t possible (although he wasn’t the most communicative of people). I do think things are getting a little more relaxed though. As opposed to a formal invite, I just asked for a confirmation of my booking from my apartment agency – they sent me something in Ukrainian with their company name, my name, the dates of my stay and the apartment address. Completely free and the embassy seemed happy enough with it.
As for the plan to drop the EU Visa needs…I wouldn’t hold your breath. Ukraine business people seem to have some bizarre idea that EU entry should be in the bag within a few years with a guaranteed entry date with 18 months – 2 years. If they are in EU before 2020 I’ll be staggered. Ukraine doesn’t meet most of the basic EU conditions and is unlikely to in the next few years. The way things are with the traditional powers within the EU and the attitudes towards immigration within these countries, I don’t think they’re going to be particularly welcoming of another EE country. Expect the new members to shake their rattle and push hard for UKR entry; expect the old members to get a sledge hammer and put them in their place.
As for the property debate....I think you just need to wait. The market is so out of whack without reality, there has to be a correction in the next couple of years. If there are negative noises from the EU, I can see prices beginning to come down quite steeply. I was looking to buy too with a view to renting initially, but the more I looked into it the worse the investment looked.
This is a mixture of personal observation from this trip, some of my favourites from other trips and a bit of hearsay for the information about nights when different clubs are empty. One caveat though is that the days I’m saying to avoid merely represent advice for people going in Winter – things may well be busier in Summer.
Moda Bar/Mandarin – I’ve tended to avoid this place as my experience is that it’s expensive and I find the layout a bit cold. This trip though it was a bit of a find. I went on Thursday with 3 girls. Entry was expensive for Kiev – 60Hrv – but the ratio of girls to guys was insane – 50: 1 before I arrived! I don’t think I saw anyone other guys arrive the whole time we were there. The quality of girls was really good too – the vast majority were 7’s and above. I would guess the whole place was available for P4P based on the number of coy glances and fairly forward dancing, but what made it so great was that the girls were just out having a good time, with the dance floor pretty full the whole time. The two other guys there were giving a master class on how to get the best deal from hookers in EE – they danced with everyone, brought a few drinks and at no point looked like they were desperate to get laid. This type of attitude completely tilts the tables in your favour; sitting around, being shy and acting as if your desperate to get laid will get you fleeced even if you are the only guy. As the evening went on, I think they could have chosen any girl they wanted and got a freebie or a cheap deal. I have to say this was the only time I regretted being with someone and I’ll have to give this place another try next trip. (I heard that Tuesday and Wednesday here were fairly empty).
Cocktail 111 (next to Hotel Lybid)– nothing really new to say about this place – I still love it. Great mix of normal locals out for a laugh, ex-pats out on a date, single ex-pats, P4P girls, normal girls and great bar staff. The music is awful (although so is much of the music in the clubs) but the atmosphere is always fun and easy going. I’ve read before it can be hard to get in – never, never had any problem, never needed a membership card. Entry is free on most weekdays and is a good option nearly any day of the week (this said it was absolutely empty on the first Monday I arrived). Personally I think it’s worth arriving a bit early here – say 11pm – so you can grab a table or a seat at the bar.
Shooters (22 Moskovska) – this place doesn’t get mentioned too often, but I’ve never had a bad night here. It’s pretty empty Sun-Tues, not too busy but good fun on Wed/Thurs and busy Fri/Sat. At the weekends there is often a queue, but the door people seem to be able to spot out-of-towners and seem happy to usher them straight in. There is some straight P4P action (I think) but it isn’t as obvious as RP or Moda Bar. It’s a good place to try and hook up with a date for another day, although I’ve got first night action here in the past (admittedly on one of these occasions I was hammered, and when I woke up she’d been replaced by her uglier sister. Don’t know how they swapped places). Cheap entry, drinks are okay, music is okay (although if I hear the dance version of either If you’re going to San Francisco or Californian Dreaming again I’m not responsible for my actions) and if you’re going to get anywhere you’ll need to get up and dance. Girl to guy ratio around 2:1.
Opium (1 Saksaganskogo) – didn’t go there this trip, but I’d imagine it’s the same. A good club – excellent music, packed at the weekends, great looking women who can really dance (and, in a rare departure for Kiev, can dance without a mirror in front of them so they can admire how hot they are). Expensive entry and drinks are above average. No obvious P4P action, but if you go for it you can meet girls and get lots of numbers. Again, you’ll need to dance. One for the young and young at heart. Can be picky about entry, especially in the summer when they have guest DJs. Only really worth a visit on Friday and Saturday as far as I know.
Chaikovsky (2 Bessarabska Pl.) – This place is dead in the centre at the end of Khreschatyk. I always read it has some of the tightest face control, but I’ve never had any problem getting in and if it had good face control, I'm not sure mine would be an obvious pass (it may be tougher at the weekend). It’s expensive for entry and drinks and it is, for Kiev, an elitny type (or wannabee) club. This said, some of the women are divine, the music is good and it’s a laugh. From past experience, it’s not an easy pulling place, but not impossible. On the plus side, money really won’t work as a way of impressing (you aren’t rich enough), so you’re just left with your charm and chat up abilities. I like the challenge of this place, although, at least for me, it can be a tough crowd. I'm sure there is P4P and that it’ll be off the chart expensive. Busy enough on most days.
In passing, since we’re in the area, The Wall is a bar just around the corner from Chaikovsky (opposite TGIF). Nothing too special, but a good bar, centrally located with good girl/guy ratio. Good place to make initial contact, and has a smattering of women with sufficiently low morality. Can’t vouch for it at the moment, but was a good place in the summer.
One place which, as far as I know, hasn’t had many mentions and is well worth a visit is Avalon (Leontovitch st). It’s part of a casino complex and the club is only worth visiting on Thurs-Sat (based on hearsay, the other nights are dead). I immediately liked it as the welcoming staff picked me as an out of towner and personally checked our coats ahead of the queue and jumped the queue for us again as we left – always a good thing. Anyway the women there were sensational, it was busy but not packed and the girl to guy ratio was very healthy. Great atmosphere, good music, has an upstair bar which is a bit quieter, drinks are normal price – had a great time on the three occasions we went. If there was P4P action, it wasn’t obvious, but the number of girls there in groups suggested it was a good place to hook up. Again, you’ll need to enjoy dancing and dance music to get the most from it, but I met a couple of Italians who lived in Kiev who swore by the place.
A couple of bars I’ll mention are 44 (Khreschatyk) – well known and just a nice normal bar which is usually busy every night and is worth going early to grab a table. Lots of single groups of women just out for a normal night. Good place to meet girls who you can invite to a club later that night. You’ll need to be prepared for rebuffs too, but this is a good place. On the down side, it often has live jazz music of such poor quality that it makes you want to chew your arm off and beat the musicians with it. Not a fan of bad jazz.
Another place I like is Cafe Opera (51/53 Volodymyrska St.). A pretty standard sports bar, but it’s open late, serves okay food, has a friendly little casino if you like this sort of thing (I do), a couple of pool tables, a big screen for sport and a table football. Nothing out of the ordinary, but a good place for an evening and they play the Stray Cats, which was a good trip down memory lane. From a past visit, I would also add Dino’s but I think it’s shut down and become a restaurant.
Finally, a massage place if you fancy something different. Due to a last minute work commitment, I ended up flying from LA to London to Vienna to Kiev and was knacked by the time I got in. I fancied a massage to refresh and found this place on the web - http://rakuena.kiev.ua/ , which is on Saksaganskogo (and then up 6 flights of stairs). No sex on offer, but I must say the 2 hour body massage was just what was required and was far more intimate than I expected and was well worth the cash. I went again on my last day and whilst the massage was not as intimate (possibly because of the masseuse, possibly because I went for the one hour option, possibly because the main room was busy and it took place in front of huge window without blinds, on show to the whole of Kiev), it was also good. I haven’t got a host of massage experience to compare, but it was thoroughly enjoyable and hit the spot; I’ve spent far more and got far less in the past! In passing, the receptionist speaks some English too.
I'm sure there were some other places, but I'm posted out.
It’s possible that I may have missed the window, but I doubt it. If you take a deeper look at the Ukraine there are still a lot of major issues that need to be resolved to warrant a massive run of speculation of real estate. Simply getting Yushchenko elected is not going to solve their financial crisis, some people I talked to feel that is it simply replacing eastern corruption with western corruption. Sure things look great in Kiev Center or even for the most part Kiev itself, but it is after all the capital. The rest of the country is typical EE. The government has a lot to fix, maintain and upgrade and zero money for it. I am hoping I can find what I want, where I want for 100k. I have a good network of American friends who have been there for a long time, one for ten years another for six. Hopefully that networking will pay off. Otherwise I'll stick with long term rentals. Heck, getting a small apartment in Kiev center has to be a lot cheaper then my small Villa on the Costa del Sol in Spain.
Anyone who pays 110k for a studio in Kiev is insane. Did it sell? Or was the owner fishing? How many other properties did you look at? How many different real estate agents did you use? My friends who both own several pieces of property in Kiev seemed quite sure about the pricing, this was around Feb 1st. I’m hardly an expert on Kiev, so I could be wrong.
You missed it (the chance to buy). I was looking to buy in January but prices went up 5k a day.
A 35 square metre (390 sq feet) shoebox just off Khreschatik that was on at 80k was 85k when I went back next day to try to put a deposit on it. Then it disappeared and reappeared 5 days later at 110k. It wasnt fully western, and it wasnt even one bedroom. It was a studio. Moscow Russian money has flooded Kiev in the weeks since Yuschenkos inauguration. Prices have gapped higher. There are not enough places on the market to meet the demand from sudden buyers from Europe and Russia. Just about every place that was for sale, has been bought, and anyone who was thinking about selling is holding on to see when the price rises will stop. There is suddenly no supply.
I dont believe you will get a western place of any size sub 100k now in Khreschatik / Bessarabska.
Come to think of it, if you can actually put down a deposit successfully on a SOVIET quality place within 200 - 300 yards of Khreschatik - Bessarabska - Baseina for sub 100k I would be very surprised.
One note of warning, Ukrainian's generally aren't much into service - some might even just call it being lazy.
That said I had decent luck with Ukraine Apartments on my last visit. Good points. Pick up and drop off at the airport went nice and smooth. The location of my apartment on the corner of Shevchenko and Khreschatyk was perfect. The 1 br apartment was western and recently redone. The bad - they gave me the wrong apartment then the one I had reserved. While this worked out better for me they never mentioned or realized it. Maid service that was supposed to take place every 3-4 days never happened at all. The water went out twice and the hot water went out twice (both due to the whole apartment building hot water system being worked on). I called and they said they would send a service tech over (that gave me a chuckle because I knew it was never going to happen). I took one very cold shower until I noticed the small electric hot water heater in the bathroom (it would have been nice if they had mentioned that on the phone). This isn't much of a gripe because one expects utility service disruptions in EE countries but I was annoyed by the hollow and senseless promise of sending a tech out.
I paid $74/night for the apartment and I couldn't have picked a better location if I had been a native of Kiev for 20 years. However if you do go with them don't expect much in the way of service, make sure to check the apartment and make sure it meets with your approval before they leave. I'd have no problem using them again but I might go with agency Uke mentioned in the posting below when I go back to Kiev in May.
Hi all,
Where do you all stay when you go? Any recommendations on GF hotels or appartments in the $50-$75 range? I'm looking for a place in the center that has decent security. I searched past posts but didn't find anything.
Cruiser,
First, let's just stop with the stereotypes. Ukrainians are not lazy. They work very hard, many are brilliant at what they can do to just survive. It is a tough life there for many and "laziness" will kill you.
The real problem is that for 75 years, there was no concept of service, there was no real service industry. I had the dubious pleasure of dining in many Soviet restaurants and service did not exist even in the best ones. This is slowly changing but it will take a long long time to reach standards that many of us are used to in Western Europe or the USA.
You come here, you have got to take the very good (the ladies) with the not so good and the bad. By the way, I am surprised you did not meet with your apartment rental people. You should have tried to speak with them in person about these issues as they happened and not try to do it by phone.
There are also problems with the infrastructure that will also take time to correct. That is why getting hot water can be an occasional problem. I have to put up with it from time to time. The water is occasionally shut off in the building if someone is doing a renovation to their apartment's plumbing. After a time, it is almost tolerable, you understand it, and by the way, they do post such shut-offs in the building so it is not a surprise.
All buildings in Kiev have these problems except those that are newly built for very elite prices.
I am glad you chuckled about the service tech. They do come out to visit but these guys are only capable of doing a good job on the spot for extra cash.
Roger Mellie
02-22-05, 21:45
Its called "illiquid markets". Its not speculation. Its genuine demand. People are buying Khreschatik to hold, not to speculate.
There are not many apartments in "prime locations" in central Kiev. The hub of where westerners want to buy is small. Where westerners define "the centre" is much smaller than where locals define "the centre". It unikely that in normal times there more than 20 - 30 suitable places in the westerner centre on the market at any given time. Thats fine cause normal demand is similar. But now if you get 200 - 300 people suddenly looking to buy, the 20 - 30 places that were on the market in mid to late January are all taken , and where does the new supply come from to meet the demand. Anyone left with a place on the market ramps up the price. No-one who was thinking of selling at 50 - 60 k in December will sell now even for 100k ... If you have just seen prices double in 2 months, you will happily wait until you see the prices stop rising before you rush to sell. They wont sell while its rising at this rate. You would be mad to.
I know the central Moscow market very well and have seen it develop over the last 5 years. I doubt Kiev will be any different. People who buy in Ukraine are cash buyers. Anyone with that amount of cash spare never sells once they see the market start to go up. Supply gets smaller and smaller and smaller as it is pretty much restricted to old soviet places (where people sell to buy a new modern place further out). What profile do you think sellers have? Would you sell a place on Khreschatik right now if you owned one? So you have to ask yourself "what possible reasons does a Ukrainian with a flat on Khreschatik have to sell now?" They will wait for this boom to slow down and that will only happen if/when demand drops off.
I reckon supply will be very very tight for some time.
And also bear in mind, that unlike London or New York, the idea of changing ownership of real estate is still very foreign. People arent just going to put their place on the market just because its value has doubled. They have lived there every minute of their life. The people who are even capable of thinking about changing ownership is a much smaller pool.
And I dont think demand will drop off either. Hundreds of people, like me, like you, will be keeping in touch with their Ukrainian agents, looking to buy on any significant dip in prices. That alone will ensure prices keep going up. We are not talking about average Kievan apartments here 7 metro stops and a 20 minute mashrutki ride away, we are talking about a handful of ideally located ones. Supply is strcitly limited, and as of one month ago, demand isnt.
I left there Feb 12, after a week in Jan and a week in Feb trying to buy. So it was around Feb 10 that prices were "gapping".
Best of luck to you if you are hoping to buy a nice western quality 60 sq metre place for $75k on Khreschatik. All I am saying is I dont think you are being realistic. In December or early January, yes sure. Now? Forget it.
I'm not saying Ukrainians are lazy, I said some people might. But stereotypes exsist for a reason, no matter what our mothers told us about not judging people. How many Ukrainians do you know that are ever on time? Is it due to centuries of mental and physical oppression, sure. In all the meetings I had with Ukrainians (female and male) only one time was one person ever on time, of course that was the first and only time I was late ;) Hey, I'm from the NE US and I think Southerns are lazy, it's not a bad thing just a regional thing.
What happened wasn't much of an issue for me, I've been in a lot worst places in the world. I'm just trying to hopefully give people the correct impression of what they might expect.
I had a great time in Kiev and I'll be back in May.
And you are right, they do post warnings about the water being shut off. The next day I understood why that letter in Russian was posted on the door...;)
Cruiser,
First, let's just stop with the stereotypes. Ukrainians are not lazy. They work very hard, many are brilliant at what they can do to just survive. It is a tough life there for many and "laziness" will kill you.
The real problem is that for 75 years, there was no concept of service, there was no real service industry. I had the dubious pleasure of dining in many Soviet restaurants and service did not exist even in the best ones. This is slowly changing but it will take a long long time to reach standards that many of us are used to in Western Europe or the USA.
You come here, you have got to take the very good (the ladies) with the not so good and the bad. By the way, I am surprised you did not meet with your apartment rental people. You should have tried to speak with them in person about these issues as they happened and not try to do it by phone.
There are also problems with the infrastructure that will also take time to correct. That is why getting hot water can be an occasional problem. I have to put up with it from time to time. The water is occasionally shut off in the building if someone is doing a renovation to their apartment's plumbing. After a time, it is almost tolerable, you understand it, and by the way, they do post such shut-offs in the building so it is not a surprise.
All buildings in Kiev have these problems except those that are newly built for very elite prices.
I am glad you chuckled about the service tech. They do come out to visit but these guys are only capable of doing a good job on the spot for extra cash.
So in other words you didn't research the Kiev market, look at different properties or use two or more independent real estate agents? ;) I'll bet you the first round at 111 that apartment you looked at will still be on the market when you go back to Kiev.
The situation in Kiev and the Ukraine is much much much much more different then that in Moscow and Russia. The Russians have/had oil to lube the wheels of progress. All the Ukrainians seem to have is this flash of PR from the Orange Revolution to market their country to foreign investment/aid. The EU has its plate full trying to swallow the EE countries they took on in the last few years. The US has it's hand full trying to ride herd on the rest of the world - I don't think the Ukraine is going to be much of a priority (oh so you are going to Kiev, do you think you'll like it in Russia?)
Old timers will start selling out when they can no longer afford to live in Kiev Center on their pension - that is happening now, regardless of whether they lived their whole live there. For 50, 60, 80k they can buy a very nice dacha in the burbs. The government changed (does government truly ever change, regardless?) the problems of the Ukraine are still there. I really don't see the reason behind a western run on real estate. The only reason why I'm interested is because I'm a slavophile (female), I like Kiev the people and I'm bored. ;) I'm looking to spend 100k for a small kitchen, small bathroom, living room and bedroom, I think it's doable. My whole reason for being involved in this discussion is to find other people's take on the RE market and to offer my own humble opinions.
Its called "illiquid markets". Its not speculation. Its genuine demand. People are buying Khreschatik to hold, not to speculate.
There are not many apartments in "prime locations" in central Kiev. The hub of where westerners want to buy is small. Where westerners define "the centre" is much smaller than where locals define "the centre". It unikely that in normal times there more than 20 - 30 suitable places in the westerner centre on the market at any given time. Thats fine cause normal demand is similar. But now if you get 200 - 300 people suddenly looking to buy, the 20 - 30 places that were on the market in mid to late January are all taken , and where does the new supply come from to meet the demand. Anyone left with a place on the market ramps up the price. No-one who was thinking of selling at 50 - 60 k in December will sell now even for 100k ... If you have just seen prices double in 2 months, you will happily wait until you see the prices stop rising before you rush to sell. They wont sell while its rising at this rate. You would be mad to.
I know the central Moscow market very well and have seen it develop over the last 5 years. I doubt Kiev will be any different. People who buy in Ukraine are cash buyers. Anyone with that amount of cash spare never sells once they see the market start to go up. Supply gets smaller and smaller and smaller as it is pretty much restricted to old soviet places (where people sell to buy a new modern place further out). What profile do you think sellers have? Would you sell a place on Khreschatik right now if you owned one? So you have to ask yourself "what possible reasons does a Ukrainian with a flat on Khreschatik have to sell now?" They will wait for this boom to slow down and that will only happen if/when demand drops off.
I reckon supply will be very very tight for some time.
And also bear in mind, that unlike London or New York, the idea of changing ownership of real estate is still very foreign. People arent just going to put their place on the market just because its value has doubled. They have lived there every minute of their life. The people who are even capable of thinking about changing ownership is a much smaller pool.
And I dont think demand will drop off either. Hundreds of people, like me, like you, will be keeping in touch with their Ukrainian agents, looking to buy on any significant dip in prices. That alone will ensure prices keep going up. We are not talking about average Kievan apartments here 7 metro stops and a 20 minute mashrutki ride away, we are talking about a handful of ideally located ones. Supply is strcitly limited, and as of one month ago, demand isnt.
I left there Feb 12, after a week in Jan and a week in Feb trying to buy. So it was around Feb 10 that prices were "gapping".
Best of luck to you if you are hoping to buy a nice western quality 60 sq metre place for $75k on Khreschatik. All I am saying is I dont think you are being realistic. In December or early January, yes sure. Now? Forget it.
Cruiser,
Being on time, or not, I think is just a matter of personal upbringing. I, too, am one of those on-time personalities but in Kiev and Moscow that can be somewhat of a problem with their traffic problems. I guess you could say it is a combination of nature and nurture, not stereotypes. However, to be back on topic, the biggest headache is waiting for ladies to arrive from the various agencies. It is almost always longer than promised. If they say they will be there in 20 minutes, it really means 90 minutes or longer.
As for the real estate issue, there was an article I read in a Ukrainian online news site this morning that forecast an overall price rise of anywhere from 15-25% for this year for all apartments regardless of location or quality. Unless you own an apartment there, that is not good news.
I do want to make one comment about your old folks selling their apartments for better places in the "burbs." You have no concept of what the elderly in Russia and Ukraine have to go through to live on miserable pensions. Living in the so-called "burbs" is the very last thing that they want to do if they have an apartment in central Kiev. Yes, it does look good on paper that they could sell for 100K but moving to a dacha in the outlying areas would likely kill them faster than if they stayed and spent their time in their central Kiev apartment no matter the cost.
However, I do know of two people who taking care of elderly neighbors, paying for their communal costs and other needs, all in return for receiving that apartment as their inheritance once that neighbor dies.
By the way, if you are looking for a small apartment for 50-100K, that is very do-able in areas just abutting Khreshchatik, say with a 2-5 kilometer radius. And these areas are every bit as prestigious, some even more so such as Lipki where prices are much higher than Khreshchatik, where much of the elite lives.
Maharadjah
02-26-05, 18:49
Hi,
I am actually in Kiev. I have landed this morning and the weather is almost 0 degre celsius.
The girls look very sexy and i am going to enjoy them ASAP.
If someone there pm me , we could go to some nice places to see some beautiful dyevs...
MR
An alternative location for a modern apartment would be Pitchersk, which is the center of new downtown not far away from Kreschatik and Padole.
The prices fluctuate between 30000-50000 and it's even possible to find somewhat older apartments on the other side of the river on the way to Borispol for something like 10000-15000.
(Don't ask me why or when or how!!! )
Our resident vegetable who won't answer any questions about how, what, why or where since he wants us to take him on faith alone. If you do, then just be very aware of the dangers. He does not believe that facts and truth are important or relevant, be it with ladies or with real estate.
An article in today's Ukraine online news gave an update on the average prices for apartments in Kiev, the list below is for apartments already on the market, the secondary market, not new apartments. Here is a translation of the average cost per square meter per city region for a one bedroom apartment:
Goloseevsky District 6660 Grivna or $1233
Darnitsky District 4644 Grivna or $860
Desnyansky District 4225 Grivna or $782
Dneprovsky District 5013 Grivna or $928
Obolonsky District 5475 Grivna or $1013
Pechersky District 8380 Grivna or $1551
Podolsky District 5589 Grivna or $1035
Svyatoshinsky District 4876 Grivna or $902
Solomensky District 5121 Grivna or $949
Shevchenkovsky District 7109 Grivna or $1316
So if you are looking for what is an average 60 square meter apartment for a one bedroom, or 645 square feet, you are looking at paying an average lowest price of $46,920 to an average highest price $93,060.
There will, of course, be higher and lower prices depending on the condition of the apartment but the time of $15,000 apartments is long gone, even in the farthest reaches of this city.
I finally booked my flight to Kiev, I`ll be there from may 11 to may 18 with a friend of mine.
I have some questions, maybe the Kiev experts on this board can give me some advice:
- We are planning to book a large apartment in the center of Kiev, and we want to be close to all the nightlife action, what would be the best location? (which street)? we are looking for a place which isn`t to far away from Riverpalace, but to be honest, having never been to Kiev, I don`t even know if Riverpalace is close to the center and the other nightlife locations.
- One of the apartment-rental sites just sent me a message, and gave me the recommendation to change our travel date because of the eurovision song contest taking place in kiev on may 19 and may 21. prices are supposed to be up to 100 percent above normal levels days before the contest starts. does anyone have any information on the situation before the contest, will prices really be exploding?
Axel,
Kiev nightlife is found throughout the city, there really is no real concentration in any one area. You pick a place to live and then travel from there, both near and far.
River Palace is about a 20 minute ride by car from Khreshchatik. It is located on the Dnepr River and nowhere near any housing whatsoever. You have no choice with this place, you must travel to and from it by car.
Your date choice was unfortunate.
Eurovision will give locals the opportunity to raise hotel, hostel, and apartment rental rates to what the market will bear for that time period, just one feature of unbridled capitalism. I suggest you make your arrangements now for the apartment at the best possible price and get it in writing. If you do not, and someone makes a better offer, you may well be looking for a place to sleep in Chernigov. Considering some things that do go on here, even if it is in writing, you still may end up looking for a Chernigov apartment.
I had not thought about it until now but I suspect the professional and semi-pro talent here will also raise their rates significantly with the influx Eurovision attendees, along with the bars, restaurants and other places of entertainment.
You may want to reconsider your travel dates to after Eurovision. I may leave town entirely as well.
Wanderer1000
03-03-05, 02:22
Alex,
I have found gotorussia.com to be reliable on several occasions in the past. They are based in the U.S., and I believe a reservation with them would be more likely to be honored. The prices on their web-site for the Eurovision time period is almost 100% more, so this seems reasonable.
Axel
Just to reiterate Uke Boy's sound advice - avoid being in Kiev around Eurovision unless you're a big fan of the show (I'm guessing you aren't) and have deep pockets.
There was an article in the Kiev Post a month or so ago about the current arrangements - or apparent lack of - for the contest. Apparently each host city has a number of pre-conditions put on them as part of being the host city, including making the ticket pricing affordable to locals (apparently this one is not particularly enforced) and things like the provision of something like 4000 hotel rooms at $100 or less within easy access of the contest venue. Organisers admit there are no-where near enough rooms yet, but also say this will be sorted in time although wouldn't give details how. There were still no details of ticket prices or availability and there were a number of other issues - it has all the hallmark of a shambles. Last I heard the ticket sale release date had been delayed again - until ticket information is available, the accomodation picture will stay a little confused as everyone holds off on doing their pricing until they get a feel for demand.
Apartment prices will sky rocket and apartment (and hotel) bumping - something most of the agencies are not particularly shy about doing at any time of the year - will happen as routine as desperate attendees, media, competitors try and get rooms. The city will also be a lot more crowded than it would usually be at this time. All in all it sounds like somewhere to avoid.
It would be nice to think that Kiev would take the opportunity to highlight the city as a tourist destination....it won't. You can guarantee that all walks of life, from taxi drivers to WGs to shops to bars/clubs/restaurants, will do all they can to fleece anyone and everyone. I would also look for an attempt to keep prices artificially at a higher level after the contest to see if they can ring out the last drop of money.
....on the plus side, we are guaranteed that EU members will definitely be able to buy visas at the airport from April onwards......hmmm
As experience has proven on many circumstances, the mongering prices always rise in the upward direction..
The prices in Kiev have been rising for the past 2-3 years as opposed to the stable general prices...
The mongering charges would have skyrocketed anyway, independent of the upcoming song contest..
....on the plus side, we are guaranteed that EU members will definitely be able to buy visas at the airport from April onwards......hmmm
I hope this isn't an early April fool ;) . Any further details would be much appreciated, as this could make life a lot easier :D
A few weeks ago, a number of reports surfaced (with direct quotes from members of the government) that Ukraine either definitely would/were examining cancelling visas for members of European Union countries. As I understand it, the main idea was to ensure that visa entry is either not required or massively simplified for the Eurovision song contest. Yushenko has publicly stated that the new EU visa policy would be in place by April.
As always in Ukraine, the story gets cloudy after this. Some stories say this will just be for each summer, some say just for this summer, some say it will be permanant, some say the new system will involve getting a visa when you arrive and some reports say it will be scrapped all together.
As far as I can tell, concrete news is thin on the ground, but I think it is fair to say that the visa policy is likely to be significantly revised for EU members either as a trial or for good. Whether the replacement scheme is any good is another matter. Policy change is one thing, but implementing it so the staff at Borispol can implement it may be another.
Axel (in reply to your PM) - I reckon the only safe policy is to go ahead and get your visa as planned; as things stand today you still need one.
Perhaps someone on the ground in Kiev might know more about all this.
Doctor_Skank
03-04-05, 12:11
I agree with Snowy that until something actually happens in Ukraine it is all pure theory...
But as for visas, I dont think we mongers should be hapy about an ease in visa policy... it may make our individual lives easier, but it will also open the door for all those weekend mongers etc. that will in the end spoil the market for everybody.
More foreigners in Ukraine means higher prices for all, means that girls will get spoiled and stop giving up sex on a first or second date etc...
So I personally dread the looming "Westernization" of Ukraine...
To Ludovico and all the others, RELAX!!!!
When and IF(!) the visa rules change, believe me, that news will be announced in this forum. Do not believe any wild rumors you may read about this issue elsewhere. Ukraine and the EU are presently engaged in talks to ease the visa rules for Ukrainians trying to travel to the EU. My suspicion is that Ukraine will modify or eliminate its visa rules depending on the concessions the EU is going to make for Ukrainians.
However, for now, if you want to travel here, visit your Ukrainian consulate first for that visa.
Now the price issue. Dr. Skank and another are quite correct about price rises here. It is slowly happening. Right now, it is as a result of the earlier issue of real estate prices. Rentals have also jumped to near-European or US levels so the in-call brothels now are charging slightly more. What used to be a steady $40-$50 per hour for the last 2-3 years is now $50 or $60 per hour. I should also mention that local food and commodity prices have risen substantially as well so that prices across the board have risen or will rise, including the services of the ladies.
Eurovision will only make it worse. What will happen post-event is hard to tell right now. During Eurovision, ladies will attempt to jack up prices to levels not seen here before. Afterwards, prices will fall back but to what level, I am not at all sure. I suspect that for a few months, ladies will use one higher price for foreigners and a much lower price for locals.
If visas for visiting Ukraine are eliminated, that would also be an interesting situation. More weekend-type mongers would mean higher prices. It would also have the effect of keeping more ladies in Ukraine and not travel to Moscow, Istanbul, Northern Cyprus and other places for work. It might also force an increase prices in these and other areas where Ukrainian ladies are working in order to get these ladies to travel there.
Did any one now if the girls on www.prostitutki.kiev.ua or good, reel, and reliebeil, and if the qulity is also good.
And how is the motch is the $.
And if the girls or independent or a agency.
Thnks
I will be in kive this march 10
HER555,
www.prostitutki.kiev.ua is a "mirror" site for www.kiev-x.com The ladies on both sites are identical but in both cases it is a mix of mostly agencies with mostly fake photos and some independents with some real pictures.
In other words, you have to take your chances.
It will also be most likely that the ladies you pick from the photos will not be the ladies coming to visit you or the ladies who will be at their in-call locations. It will then be a matter of personal choice to continue with them or leave.
Prices also vary from $60 to one case of $100 per hour for in-call.
Good luck!
Personally, I tend to agree with Doc Skank (or shouldn't that be Proffessor Skank by now, since he's done so much research :D ). The fewer weekend mongers that can get in the better. I mean just look at what has happened to the Czech Republic, Hungary, Poland and the Baltic countries. Cheap flights to these countries has brought hoards of British stag parties and Italian casanovas. The women in those countries don't want anything to do with foreigners anymore because they know it's bad news. The fact remains however, if visas are scrapped we will have to go and visit the countryside and big towns further east (which is probably something we should be doing now but are too lazy to do).
As for the prices during Eurovision, they are bound to go up but only because the people that go there are too dumb to read this forum ;) . The fact remains however that prices will go down again because after the contest those type of people that pay through the nose just wont be visiting Kiev. Locals and experienced mongers just wont pay those kind of prices. The only situation where I see prices remaining the same are with the agencies, as they have the ease of service and know how to get away with it.
Globe Trots
03-06-05, 12:46
hi guys, I've been a lurker on WSG for ages, but never got around to posting. First of all, thank you all for your wonderful reports, and I must say that I've used alot of your information for my trip planning. (In the spirit of things, and also because I feel terrible about asking questions with any sharing on my part, I've posted a couple of reports on Shanghai, and plan to follow up with more when I can!)
Anyway, I plan to be in Ukraine from about 9-16 May. My time there will be split between Kiev and Odessa. Slightly more time in Odessa. Then I will be taking a ferry from Odessa to Istanbul (hopeing for more adventures there, but unlikely since I'm there to visit old friends).
I have several questions for the old hands at Ukraine. Gia Escorts is one of the few places that have not raised apartment prices in May in anticipation of Eurovision. At least not yet. I hope to confirm with them ASAP. That said, I recall someone posting that Gia issues invitation letters. That is incorrect. In their email reply, they expressly stated that they do not provide this service. Am I writing to the wrong person here? Or have they changed their policy? I'm asking because so far the lowest rate for a visa invite I've found is USD45. Which I find rather high for the mere emailing/faxing of a standard form letter. So any info regarding this would be useful (PS. I'm not from the US or Europe or the ex CIS countries, so I need an invite for the visa).
My other question is on the booking of air/train tickets within Ukraine. How difficult is that for me to do myself upon arrival in Kiev? Or should I get a travel agency to do it for me and to deliver the tickets to me when I'm there? I'm concerned about having to send money for the tickets to a travel agency I've never seen or heard of. Payment by visa would be somewhat preferred as I have the ability to stop payments if necessary. OR if any of you guys have solid recommendations, I would be slightly happier (as opposed to relying on google search!). I ask because I'm considering my options for travel from Kiev to Odessa (overnight train sounds promising. saves a night's accommodation. Apparently it's under USD50 per person on the 1st class sleeper).
Finally, on the question of language and race. I'm a fluent english speaker, and speak EXTREMELY rudimentary russian. Lets just say that it's unlikely that I'd be able to even understand a restaurant menu properly. How much of a problem is that going to be? Or should I brush up on my russian before I go over (figure I still have 2-3 months to pickup a little!). Also, I'm asian (chinese by blood to be exact). Is that going to be a problem there? Discrimination, etc etc?
I'm not too sure that there is that much to be worried about if the visa policy is relaxed, although I'm happy to be be corrected.
Whilst visas are an annoyance, they are not difficult to obtain and really aren't that expensive in the grand scheme of a trip. The key thing that would change somewhere like Kiev from a "specialist" location to a mass weekend venue is surely direct cheap flights. As I recall places like Riga and Tallin relaxed their visa policy sometime ago, but it was the availability of cheap direct flights that made the big difference. (This is the bit I'm happy to be corrected about) I think the cheap direct flights only became possible once Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania et al joined the EU last year - if the visa policy is relaxed, I don't think EasyJet will suddenly be able to offer cheap t flights to Kiev; if they could do it now, I'm sure they would. I can't see that the visa policy holds them back.
Amongst people I know and work with, I don't get the impression that Kiev is a destination they are desperate to go to, denied them by an annoying visa policy. Most people still seem to think Ukraine is a region of Russia.
The other issue, is that the days of dirt cheap mongering prices in Kiev are someway gone; sure the whole place is a lot cheaper than other western cities, but drinks, club entry, accomodation and girls are all not that cheap that I can see thousands of stag nights giving up their current haunts to go to Kiev (actually I see Odessa in the summer as having more opportunity than Kiev in this respect - I can see the outdoor club scene being of more interest).
I share the concern already mentioned, but I don't think there's too much to worry about for the immediate future.
The very last thing anyone needs anywhere, Kiev included, are invading hordes of drunk British and Scottish weekenders. I think what keeps most people away is the fact that the flights are not short hops except from Vienna. London is a minimum of three hours, most other flights from the major European gateways average at least two hours in the air.
With airline fuel costs very high these days, the EasyJet-type costs are just not realistic from an economic point of view. I suspect that even if you did get mass tourism coming this way, such cheap round trip tickets would be in the $150-200 range. Not expensive by today's costs but not bottom of the barrel, either.
The other major issue is the severe lack both in quantity and quality of Kiev hotels. Until there is a significant improvement in this area, which is at least 5-7 years away, there won't be a Prague-like situation with weekend mongers.
Visas will not be scrapped altogether. And it may be a good thing to have a visa, anyway. I suspect that Borispol will have a two-tier entry structure. If you have a visa, you will be fast-tracked through immigration. If you are coming without a visa, you can be sure the bureaucrats will want you to fill out some form either on the airplane or on arrival. Then the immigration officer will have to read it and find all your mistakes and send you back to fill it out correctly. Once you have that filled out and approved, since this is Ukraine, you will also have to then join another queue and pay for the privilege of coming here! By the time you leave the airport, the folks who have come with visas are already enjoying the local ladies!!!
Seriously, even if the visa regulations were altered, don't expect that you will simply get through the airport, it is not part of the mentality here.
I agree with Snowy, prices are going up, but they are still lower than many other places. These "higher" rates are also for one-time meetings. Don't forget that if you use an agency regularly or see an independent pro or semi-pro regularly, prices will drop substantially.
One other point. Kiev is still significantly more expensive than any other city in Ukraine, so going farther afield can be rewarding. The down side there is that the local infrastructure outside Kiev such as hotels and restaurants is also far worse.
I was just wondering if anybody has tried the VIP service at Borispol. Is it worth paying the 400 grivnas for this service? Does it get you through the airport quicker and more efficiently?
Thanks ukebay,
As alyes yoer info. Is good and to the point.
If I will have new info from Kiev I will post.
Ludovico,
I have never done the VIP Service and no one else I know has ever done this. From what I have heard, you avoid standing in the queue for immigration control. You are brought to the border guard ahead of all the others waiting but you still have to present your documents for inspection, the same processing is then performed. You still have to pick up your baggage and you still have to go through customs but, here too, with your escort you will jump any possible queues there as well.
If you have a visa and you are not carrying anything illegal, Borispol is relatively painless. With carry on luggage I have managed to get through sometimes in no more than 10 minutes With checked luggage it is a matter of waiting for the retrieval and that is mostly luck. However, once you have the luggage, the green corridor is also a matter of minutes.
I would rather pay 400 grivnas for an hour or two with a local lady than for something that may save me 15 minutes at most. If your documents are not in order or if you have something not allowed by customs and it is found, this service won't help you avoid the subsequent problems.
Globe Trots,
Some questions about your travelplans in Ukraine.
a) could you buy your own tickets speaking limited russian?
I speak enough Russian/Ukrain to help myself BUT I am not fluently enough to answer the questions the salespeople in the railwaystations ask me when I try to buy a ticket.
So my advice is: either buy the tickets in a travelagency, sometimes you can pay with creditcard or, even better, find a taxidriver who speaks english, let him drive you to the ticketshop at the railwaystation and let him help you.
But, be aware, the number of cabdrivers who speak decent english is limited so you have to try hard to find one.
Moving around in Kiev and Odessa without speaking russian is not difficult.
In most restaurants in the centre menu's in english are available and the staff speaks enough english. At the street, the older people don't speak english, abou 10% of the younger do so, if you need help and want to ask, ask a younger person.
Going by train from Kiev to Odessa is very charming but extremely tiring.
You will be exhausted when you arrive in Odessa IF you can find the righte train.. Next to that, most likely nobody will speak english. Better going by plane, not too expensive. Direct flights OR, going by bus. Busses in Oekraine are faster then trains and, it is much easier to find the right bus.
But again, you need help to buy your ticket. By the way, trains and busses are very cheap. Don't forget to bring your passport with you when you buy a ticket for thr bus or train. You need to show it; your name will be printed at the ticket. This is a relique from the old ages. Enjoy Kiev, beatifull town.
Bez Bezarra
03-07-05, 13:01
Pay $80 to skip the line?
That seems like a waste of money.
Depending on how many other flights land at the same time as yours,
you may wait 5 minutes or 45 minutes, especially if everyone in front
of you looks arab or Indian, since their papers are usually all fucked up
and they take 10 minutes each to process. Nothing like having a US passport to get stamped in in 30 seconds!
Either way, having a good contact to meet you means they'll sit and
wait for you in the airport lobby no matter how long it takes.
Just try to get as close to the exit door on the airport shuttle bus as you can,
and then bum-rush everyone else to the immmigration door. Trust me, all the Ukraininas do that, especially the babushkas. They'll shove you right into
the wall if you don't walk fast enough!
Again, establishing a good contact in Kiev means all your travel needs are no longer a concern. So forget the bus or train to Odesa. Round trip jet from the Kiev city airport is only about $100, and gets you there in about an hour. And you get the fun of flying on a russian 32 seat mini-jet. And you get to watch the drunk baggage handlers drinking their vodka breakfast at 7 am too. Then wonder if they also did the plane's maintenance? Have some fun!
Well I have been away and had trouble getting onto the forum. First thanks for the info on realistate. Was just wondering on finding a falt somewhere for my stay. Not so sure of the Area. Yeah I wish I had bought one when I first started going to Ukraine. Still I am looking for a nice place for me, just to hang a hat when I visit. Then maybe rent or share with friends who visit. Thats about it.
As for the VIP service. I use it to enter Ukraine, for one reason. I want to get to my flat and do not want the have to wait long lines, or have much trouble. Seems to me to be quicker. On exit it depends on how I feel if I want to sit around and enjoy the lazy life in VIP. ITs nice. Just depends on if you really want to spend the money to be lazy, or not. Me On entry always lazy flying from here in the states, I just want to get to the flat, find a nice girl to ease the tensions from the long flight, and relax.
Well thanks for the tips on places and prices. I'll check back n soon I hope.
Roger Mellie
03-07-05, 19:29
http://travel-2-ukraine.com/visa-support/default.htm
They do invites for $30., or $50 for a double entry
Has anyone got any experience of arriving at borispol around midnight? I bet you could get through the airport pretty quick at that time of night ;) .
Duke Uke'em, you mentioned in one of your posts about in-calls. Does that work the same as the privats in Prague, Warsaw and Moscow etc, where you enter the flat and get to pick from a bunch of girls working that particular shift? Is there a local paper or website where you can find the addresses? This just seems like an option which isn't explored very much on here!
The fact is there must be other options that the locals use, as they can't afford to pay the same prices as the foreigners. I mean do they save all the pretty girls for us, and collect all the dogs for the local boys? If I was a local I wouldn't put up with that :( . Also I guess the mafia must be pretty heavily involved in this sector, or do they just concentrate on shipping girls abroad?
Juschtschenko announcement in german bundestag yesterday: "we think it is in the interest of ukraine to introduce a visa-free regulation for citizens of the european union in a few weeks. we want our country to be on the list of states, where there is democracy and where humanitarian standards are preserved."
Finally, on the question of language and race. I'm a fluent english speaker, and speak EXTREMELY rudimentary russian. Lets just say that it's unlikely that I'd be able to even understand a restaurant menu properly. How much of a problem is that going to be? Or should I brush up on my russian before I go over (figure I still have 2-3 months to pickup a little!). Also, I'm asian (chinese by blood to be exact). Is that going to be a problem there? Discrimination, etc etc?
I'm Asian too, speak just three words in Russian (Привет, спасибо, пожалуйста :D) and never had a problem in Kiev. For restaurant, the ones in the center have English menu, ... or just go to McDonald :)
Bez Bezarra
03-10-05, 02:33
Hey Gandalf!
How's Minsk?
Hey where has everyone been? No one is in Kiev? ;)
I had the Borispol experience again a few days ago. Our plane came in along with one from Tripoli and another from Egypt, along with a Prague flight. The bad news was that the Tripoli flight came in first and so the passport control folks were on their total document inspection. That meant that every Libyan got at least a five minute inspection, and some were taken to another room for additional talks. That meant even more delays for all the rest of us.
Then came the all too frequent Ukrainian surprise. The "immigration forms" that were given to us in the plane, the ones used for the last few years, are no longer valid and everyone who filled one out on the plane had to go back and get new ones to fill out all over again and then stand in the queue again or jump to the front.
Are the new forms any different? No, they ask for all the same information all over again. This time, however, instead of a form with lots of ads and very readable, this one is on very flimsy paper old Soviet style toilet paper, microscopic in its typeface and I would guess many will lose it while they are in Ukraine. All that means is that on leaving, you will have fun arguing with a passport control agent on the way out that you came in legally and were registered! Isn't this a fun place?
For those of you who think that the possible upcoming visa-free travel will be an easy process, I suggest you think again. If there is a way to bureaucratically screw up something potentially good, they will find a way.
By the way, even a VIP passenger would have been hard pressed to get ahead of the queue in this situation.
Customs was another problem since they were also on a full search regime. Everything had to be x-rayed but after that you could still head for the green line.
I still got out in 20 minutes from start to finish but then I also did what most locals do, which is to jump the queues as much as possible.
Ludovico,
You asked about in-calls. Yes, they do exist and they are very similar to privats elsewhere. As a matter of fact, recently someone has come in here and apparently set up a series of such upscale for Kiev privats that have Jacuzzis and saunas along with a number of ladies. The prices for these privats are also higher than then usual crap places that used to be used for such meetings.
Most of these privats are now advertising on such sites as uaescort.com and kiev-x.com as individuals. The pictures you see are mostly fakes, you need to go there and see the ladies, some lovely, some "goblins" as they are called here. They also can come to you and you can make the choice in your hallway or on the street.
The real problem is that at least 90% of the ladies will not speak English. For now the biggest barrier in this area is the language issue.
Locals do use this option but as always, the main point for them is to negotiate the lowest possible price, something not possible for you if you cannot speak the language. And the locals like the ladies lovely as everyone else.
Mickey Mouse
03-19-05, 09:46
Sounds like I arrived at the same time as Uke Boy and I had to get in line 3 times because of that chaos. Yes, The Mouse is in town and my mongering could be in check because I do have a companion, but we will see what happens.
I have an apartment near Bessarabs'ka (sp) and my first impressions (comparisons with BA) will be posted soon.
Thanx for the help Cruiser,
MM
Stravinsky
03-19-05, 17:34
MM,
OhmyGod, the Mouse is scampering in Kiev. Looking forward to your comparisons with BA, should be interesting. Happy hunting!
Mickey Mouse
03-20-05, 12:01
The Mouse was off and running last night with 3 Girls (one is special) in tow and we did make it to RP and others. Now I was able to do some recon (pricing etc) and talk to some talent even though I left with my own. This place, Kiev, is something!
I guess the main difference with BA is 1. Pricing and 2. Your personal preference in looks.
A Full report to follow when I get more than 2 minutes alone,
The Mouse reporting
I had problems with the 'new' immigration form too. Except I didn't get one on the plane and had to fill mine out in the immigration hall. I was surprised it was so small and I was even more surprised that any immigration official could read my miniaturized chicken scrawl with anything less then the ability to read english (and chicken scrawl) fluently. The immigration official was surprised to see the new form too - they must have been just making the transition - this was Jan 18th. This was the first time the wave of the blue passport and that I look like a typical American didn't bring anymore then a disinterested shrug. But this is only the 2nd visa country I've been to (not that there are many for Americans), the first being Burma. The paper is a mere formality any ways, they log you in and out of the computer database when you enter/leave.
I don't know what anyone has to complain about getting into the Ukraine. It was a lot easier and quicker then getting back into the US with our ridiculous and ineffective security procedures. But of course it's nothing like breezing in and out of an EU country, the reason being is that they have their security procedures rooted in reality, they profile.
Then came the all too frequent Ukrainian surprise. The "immigration forms" that were given to us in the plane, the ones used for the last few years, are no longer valid and everyone who filled one out on the plane had to go back and get new ones to fill out all over again and then stand in the queue again or jump to the front.
Are the new forms any different? No, they ask for all the same information all over again. This time, however, instead of a form with lots of ads and very readable, this one is on very flimsy paper old Soviet style toilet paper, microscopic in its typeface and I would guess many will lose it while they are in Ukraine. All that means is that on leaving, you will have fun arguing with a passport control agent on the way out that you came in legally and were registered! Isn't this a fun place?
For those of you who think that the possible upcoming visa-free travel will be an easy process, I suggest you think again. If there is a way to bureaucratically screw up something potentially good, they will find a way.
By the way, even a VIP passenger would have been hard pressed to get ahead of the queue in this situation.
Customs was another problem since they were also on a full search regime. Everything had to be x-rayed but after that you could still head for the green line.
I still got out in 20 minutes from start to finish but then I also did what most locals do, which is to jump the queues as much as possible.
Anyone who can brings girls to RP, work the talent and then leave with the same girls he brought is my hero. You da man!
The Mouse was off and running last night with 3 Girls (one is special) in tow and we did make it to RP and others. Now I was able to do some recon (pricing etc) and talk to some talent even though I left with my own. This place, Kiev, is somehting!
I guess the main difference with BA is 1. Pricing and 2. You preference in looks.
A Full report to follow when I get more than 2 minutes alone,
The Mouse reporting
here is part one of my kiev travel log. i had ment to keep up on it while i was in kiev on a daily basis, but we all know how that goes. if there is any interest i'll post and finish the rest.
“i am a travel girl, i travel across the world, my only friend is the bus”…thump thump thump…ah, my first night in kiev. i’m sitting in an upscale mobbed up casino/bar/strip club which has some very fine talent on display. including one silicon enhanced blonde, ah perhaps the ukrainians are more advanced then i thought.
but i am getting ahead of myself by about 10 hours or so. let’s start off at kiev’s international airport, which is about 30 minutes outside the city. i disembark from the plane and go to clear customs – ah the ukraine, is it indeed the slavic loving chauvinistic male pig dreamland? i open the door to the custom hall and enter; a 5’4 105 blonde in 4” stiletto heels and a 16” skirt in immigration official green greets and moves me to the proper line. ah yes, i think i’ve come to the right place.
i go up to the male immigration official in the typical small booth. i’m more then slightly annoyed that the wave of the magic blue passport didn’t bring a disinterested shrug and a wave as it has always done in all my travels, with the exception of montreal (i won’t even get into the <insert favorite french ethnic slur>/canadian fake odd hate of americans). from that point on i make an effort to make sure if i’m dealing with anyone in the ukraine that person is female. it pays off for me at the custom desk, where a very attractive but conservatively (for a ukrainian girl) dress girl gets my best american, “how you doing?” – they aren’t showing re runs of friends in the ukraine yet, are they? i’m not exactly smuggling two kilo’s of drugs in my body cavities but i do have around 2,000 usd on me, which is about 1k over the limit. but there is a long line of people that have to declare and no line at the non declaring area (i did say i was american, right?). she asks me how much money i have on me; i shrug my shoulders and say 500 she gives me the disinterested shrug and wave that i look for with all my dealings with immigration/custom officials. good girl. open the door and bang, i’m in the ukraine. i spot the driver with the sign with my name on it; he’s about 15 yards away. i make my way past all the drivers asking if i need a ride, walk to his car and off we go to my rental apartment where i’m about to get my first taste of ukrainian service (you can’t see my eyes roll or the sarcasm in my voice ;) – but i’m a slavophile and this isn’t my first 2nd world country so i have a good idea what i am in for.
after a quick 30 minute drive to the center of kiev in a nice small audi sedan. since the driver understands very little english i spend most of my time studying the countryside. the trip from the airport is typical of a fairly new airport, it belies the eastern european nature of the ukraine; i get the impression that i am in any western european country, until i get to the edge of kiev. construction is everywhere, which is a very good sign. but until i get to the very center of kiev i get a very 1980’s pittsburgh feel – not bad, not good. the very center of kiev is typical of any european city, but yet i feel that something is a bit off. it isn’t until later that i learn that the soviets had destroyed all the old buildings of kiev in order to indoctrinate the people of kiev in the ways of communism – funny how they didn’t do that in moscow, saint petersburg or a number of other russian cities (welcome to pseudo communism).
i couldn’t have asked for a better location for my apartment even if i had the experience of a 20 year kiev native. the location of perfect, it’s right on the corner of the main street in kiev and a few steps from the underground shopping complex of metrograd (which comes in handy during the winter). lenin himself stands guard outside my door, it’s odd in a country that was raped by russia how he is still semi revered, ah, selective history. up i go to the top floor of the apartment building; the elevator which by modern american standards is a bit shabby i later come to find out is quite the status symbol. the entryway is nice but once again a bit shabby by modern american standards. there is someone in a little office/booth about 16-18 hours out of the day, which is nice because for the first two days i had a hard time getting used to the odd combination locks on the 1st and 2nd doors. i tip the driver 5 euros (no need to for euros here), i know that is quite a bit by ukrainian standards, but the driver will probably be the one who takes me back to the airport. i want him to remember me and be on time. inside the apartment i go – very nice but this isn’t the apartment that i had booked online. very nice, fantastic location but no desk for my laptop in the bedroom, no dvd player, no english cable channels, no place to eat except for a miniscule breakfast bar in the kitchen and a oversized coffee table in the living room. oh well, i think the trade off for the location is worth it. as it turns out, the desk in the bedroom would have only gotten in the way (smirk), i can play dvd’s on my laptop, i missed two weeks of superbowl hype and iraqi election/bush inauguration nonsense, not having someplace to eat the few meals i had in the apartment was a bit annoying but ‘oh well’.
i meet the apartment rental manager he’s friendly and nice and gives me a quick run down of the apartment. he didn’t have my rental cell phone with him nor my internet access card. i tell him how important both are to me (after all i can’t work the girls without my tools), he tells me another manager will be by around 6 to drop both off. i gave him 20 usd and sent him on his way. time for a power nap.
at 720 i hear the door buzzer, right on time for a ukrainian. it’s the female rental manager and she is quite attractive. she has both my phone and my internet card. we chat a bit and i mention how nice it would be if i could arrange a tour of someone to show me around kiev. of course i was imply that she should show me around. we end up play phone tag for most of my trip there but could never set anything up. however we did have lunch one day.
it takes me a little while to get my internet card going. this was my first experience with pay as you go internet service and a long time since i had to use dial up. i’m just about finished setting my account up when i get one of the oddest phone calls of my life on my rental cell phone. i pick up the phone and the voice on the other end says (in american), “hello, did you just call me?”. now back in the states i would reply no and hang up but i’m in kiev and an american just called me on my rental phone that no one has the number to. this is just too odd to dismiss. after a little bit of small talk we make plans to meet the next day because i have plans to meet an internet date that night at fridays.
as it turns out my internet date ends up blowing me off, and no, not in that good way. hmm, getting blow off by an internet date in fridays…i look around me, yes people are speaking ukrainian, i’m in kiev, not the us. my apartment is just across the street from fridays so it’s no big deal. i also chatted up a few people at the bar while i was at fridays so it wasn’t a complete waste. so i head back to my place and give my new american friend a call. i get him on the phone and it turns out he had just made plans for the night. but he would be more then happy to meet me at his apartment. leery but game i had for his place which is only a few minutes away.
i make it to his place we talk a bit about his experience in kiev, it turns out he has been there for six years. he asks me what i’m looking for in kiev, i tell him short term or long term, lease, rental or buy i’m game for it all. it seems like he isn’t too much in the p4p scene but is more of a serial dater. he is quite nice and friendly and we end up spending a lot of time working the bars in kiev. but that night he is busy and he has his main girl friend coming over. so he hands me off to two other americans he knows. one of whom has been in kiev for ten(!?) years, i can only imagine what kiev was like in 1994!
we ended up going to the dnipro strip club first, that is what my opening paragraph alludes too. it was an off night (tuesday or wednesday) the place is nearly empty but the talent on the stage is still top notch. i watch a few rotations and settle on this tight body energetic brunette. one of my new friends talks to the waitress and the girl comes over to the table. she was hot, but not the hottest girl in the club, but she had the best demeanor about her. she spoke english ok and after some small talk i finally cut to the chase, she said 400. i replied in amazement, ‘400 what?’ my friends had already told me that the going rate was 300usd at the club so i knew this place wasn’t cheap by kiev standards, but at 400 i could pull talent from a us strip club. sure it would probably only be for a mechanical hour but hey, i already knew i could get anything i wanted at the river palace for 150usd and principal was at stake. besides i like to go p4p with an option that it might go a little bit beyond that and the more i talked to this girl the less i was getting that vibe. besides, she must have been crazy for not being interested in a young good looking american ;). so i sent her on her way after she finished her drink, i paid the parties tab and off we went to the river palace.
ah, the river palace, what can i say about that place that hasn’t been said already. first off, it’s a river boat or i should say river ship, it’s too large to be called a boat. but having a permanently moored ship, boat, barge serving as a casino/bar/club/disco is common in europe. it’s quite nice, about mid scale for an american club/disco. i never went to the casino section of the ship but spent most of my time in the disco and a little time downstairs in the sports bar watching american football during the play off games. the staff was accommodating and almost up to american standards of attentiveness. the selection of girl was quite large and varied. regardless of what anyone else might say i didn’t see or encounter a girl who wasn’t available for p4p. but then again as i already mentioned i am a young handsome american, 150 and me…who could resist ;). i really wasn’t all that interested in being charming or funny to get a good deal, i was however more then willing to be funny and charming for mind blowing sex (and it worked). i’ll never understand why guys go to the rp for anything other then p4p action when there are other clubs in kiev where they can play the big white hunter. during my time in kiev i went to rp four times and had five girls. each experience was better then the first with the last one being a threesome. two of the girl i had were pro’s (one being a kept girl stepping out on her daddy – she said 1k/month didn’t cut it) and three were semi pro’s looking to make a little coin. the threesome was one of the most mind blowing experiences of my life. i woke up around 10 in the morning with two very attractive girls snuggling on either side of me. the living room and bedroom looked like a bomb had gone off. drinking glasses, bottles, clothes and used condoms were all over the place. ah the memories…thank you oksana 1 and oksana 2. however, some of my friends have reported so-so experiences from rp, so beware the caveat; your mileage may vary.
Cruiser,
Keep up with your report. It is always fun to read the experiences of others who come here on short stays. Even we long-timers can always learn a thing or two.
As for the airport experience, Americans do breeze through immigration at home since there is a separate series of officers waiting just for us. All others have to go to another area and then also be fingerprinted and other nonsense that in the end won't help stop any terrorists but will stop some tourism.
I talked about Borispol because it can sometimes be very chaotic, something that you apparently did not experience. Four flights coming into such a small airport at one time, and one of them from a non-European country can lead to very long delays and lines unless you know how to work it. The new customs forms just make it that much more chaotic.
As for that mere paperwork formality, yes, you can lose it and still leave the country. However, be prepared for a ball-busting time from the border guard when you do exit. I have seen it and heard it more than once as I was leaving with others next to or nearby me who lost their forms. They do like to let you know who is in charge at that point...
Peter Pan 2
03-20-05, 22:13
Cruiser,
Nice report. I am going to Kiev next month. Can you tell me who got you the apartment, phone and internet card and at what rates? I would be interested in them too.
Happy hunting
Mickey Mouse
03-21-05, 09:29
We arrived at RP around 1:30 am saturday night to drink, dance and have some fun. My companions were a "Special Friend" and two other Ukranian Girls (both married) from outside Kiev who were inexperienced (not my friend) in these matters. We got a table and some cocktails in the disco and proceeded to dance up a storm.
There was a large imbalance of Men to Women (5 to 1) maybe because of' the late hour. The ladies were all about 7 - 8's on this Mouse's scale (I figured the 9's and 10's were already taken) and they were all working. I was quoted a price by two different girls of $150 for whatever I wanted (a couple hours, all night, anything) with the promise of the best sex ever by one of them. I didn't have time to negotiate, but I figured there wouldn't be much negotiation because of the quantity of men.
Overall I was not impressed, but the hour may have had something to do with it. I also prefer a better girl/guy ratio where I am outnumbered, but I was under no pressure since I had my own company. I also checked out the Bar downstairs which was mostly empty with a Band.
I think the "Hidden Gems" here in Kiev are in the restaurants, stores and on the streets because everyone is very friendly and loves to chat. I swear to God there have been a couple hostesses/waittresses that have seriously flirted and this Mouse could not take advantage which is very disappointing.
A return trip is definite when I am alone, available and the weather is better,
Just One Mouse's Opinion & Experience
Mickey Mouse
03-21-05, 10:42
On my first trip here in January I stayed at Hotel Sonya (.com) on Volodmysrs'ka, but this time I rented an apartment (kreschatiksuites.com)across from Friday's (Bingo!) I agree with Cruiser, that is the perfect spot! Great location and for less money, I can't imagine doing better, everything is right there!
A few things to get use to here if it is your first visit. I speak a couple languages, but the language barrier is much more difficult than what I am use to because you can't read the signs. Negotiating Cab Fares before using them is New to me, but the women . Ah the Women! I have said before it depends on your taste, but if you like the lean look with Legs and High Cheek bones then get your butt over here. The ladies are friendly and many have a basic knowledge of English and Many are Beautiful and Friendly.
The biggest difference I see with BA is the Cost. BA is much cheaper for everything: Women, Wining, Dining, shoppng and transportation. My friend Stormy's apartment on Libertad and Marcelo T in BA costs 1/2 as much as an apartment in Kiev and it is more than two times the size and a little nicer.
The restaurants in Kiev seem to be more diverse and definitely more expensive, especially if you like wine as this Mouse does. But the women .....
I think summers in Kiev and winters in BA (their summer) may have an appeal to this Mouse who likes his cheese, and many different cheeses at that.
Only two days left ...
The Mouse reporting
I used a service called http://www.uaapartments.com/ . The've gotten a bunch of good reviews and one very bad one. I posted a few comments about them. Service was minimal, but that is the way it is over there. But I still enjoyed my stay very much and I wouldn't have a problem using them again. I can't remember the pricing on the phone card or the internet card. It's the same deal as in the west, only a little cheaper. There are kiosks selling the cards all over the place. On Khreschatyk you can't walk 5 meters without coming across someone selling the cards. All the rental info is on their webpage. They sold me the cards at face value.
Also, for all you first timers going to Kiev. I had all my bases covered except for one very important thing - I didn't bring my own unlocked GSM phone and the phone I rented was in Russian. I can't stress how much better it would have been if I have my own phone to PDA the girls. I was juggling 20 non pro's and 4 pro's it got very confusing. ;)
Cruiser,
Nice report. I am going to Kiev next month. Can you tell me who got you the apartment, phone and internet card and at what rates? I would be interested in them too.
Happy hunting
I don't know if my being there in Jan-Feb had anything to do with it. Or the nights I went, two sundays, monday and wednesday. But whenever I went the female to male ratio was always 5 to 1 or higher. I have to agree with you on the scale. lots of 6-8's with very few 9's (10's don't exists in my book). However all there needs to be is one available 8 or 9 for myself ;). I remember watching the AFC championship game in the sports bar. By the time the Pats had wrapped it up it was very very late around 430 I think. I was in such a good mood (I'm from Boston) that I wanted to pull some fun out of there for the night. But I doubted there would be anything left that was worthwhile. Well, fortune smiled on the Pats and me that night. I had just cleared the stairs from the sports bar and spotted this cute little 8 standing 10' in front of me in the hostess area, it looked like she was just leaving or she had just got there. It looked liked she was waiting for me, honestly. The rest is now a good memory (and a phone number when I go back) ;)
Perhaps those more schooled in the mating ritual of the RP can educated us to the migration habits of the females? Is satuday a bad night because they are being ‘normal’ girls at other clubs?
RP was always a good back up plan when things don't pan out at the clubs. I was completely open minded about what I was looking for in Kiev and it includes long term possibilities. It's been my experience that in the US you have a 50/50 shot of getting a girl to give it up on the first date, but in Kiev it's more like a 10% chance. RP is a good way to vent some steam without any fuss or muss. And to be honest, if I'm just looking for a one off, I'd rather go the 'how much' route bag a 8-9 then work a freebie and accrue bad karma.
Is the cute tall blonde still working as a hostess at Fridays? I had my eye on her but it's hard to work a girl when you've brought 20 other girls in and out of the place. ;)
See you in May ;)
We arrived at RP around 1:30 am saturday night to drink, dance and have some fun. My companions were a "Special Friend" and two other Ukranian Girls (both married) from outside Kiev who were inexperienced (not my friend) in these matters. We got a table and some cocktails in the disco and proceeded to dance up a storm.
There was a large imbalance of Men to Women (5 to 1) maybe because of' the late hour. The ladies were all about 7 - 8's on this Mouse's scale (I figured the 9's and 10's were already taken) and they were all working. I was quoted a price by two different girls of $150 for whatever I wanted (a couple hours, all night, anything) with the promise of the best sex ever by one of them. I didn't have time to negotiate, but I figured there wouldn't be much negotiation because of the quantity of men.
Overall I was not impressed, but the hour may have had something to do with it. I also prefer a better girl/guy ratio where I am outnumbered, but I was under no pressure since I had my own company. I also checked out the Bar downstairs which was mostly empty with a Band.
I think the "Hidden Gems" here in Kiev are in the restaurants, stores and on the streets because everyone is very friendly and loves to chat. I swear to God there have been a couple hostesses/waittresses that have seriously flirted and this Mouse could not take advantage which is very disappointing.
A return trip is definite when I am alone, available and the weather is better,
Just One Mouse's Opinion & Experience
Mickey Mouse
03-21-05, 18:58
Cruiser,
The Tall Blonde is still there and; YES, I would be all over that too if not for the companion. In fact, I am amazed how many hostesses/waitresses are so friendly and talkative, it makes me wonder!?
Kiev/Ukraine is having difficulty figuring out the service industry and the relationship between pricing, service, performance and rewards. Most taxis don't have meters, many restaurants don't give itemized bills and they are very inefficient in the way they do their businesses and care for the customer here. But the Legs and Bodies on these women ...... Yowzer!! Hi Exon!
Have you noticed that most of the small businesses are run by women?
A couple things are for sure when I return: I will make sure the weather will be nice (I'm tired of the Cold), I will bring my own GSM cell phone, I will stay in the same area and I will NOT be limited to Only One kind of Cheese!
Your neighbor,
The Mouse
Mickey Mouse,
Tall Blondes or short brunettes, I get the impression that in warmer weather we will be seeing you again, and more than once.
Those of us long-timers who are here even in the coldest of winters never really seem to notice the weather outside, our eyes as well as mouths and hands and other parts are feasting on the local treasures.
What you are experiencing is a local service industry of the best sort but please try and keep this a secret, we would not want others to know and make this into another Prague.
By the way, this lingering winter weather is not all that usual. It normally is a lot nicer and warmer this time of year.
By the way, if you do forget to bring your mobile, you can buy a local prepaid package with a phone included relatively cheap. In turn, these phones can be hacked here almost anywhere so you then take them home with you for use there. It may be cheaper than renting a local Russianized phone.
Roger Mellie
03-21-05, 21:49
Dont rent a phone, just buy a $5 Jeans SIM card and hey presto, you have a local Ukrainian number (Assuming you have a GSM phone). The chicks will be so impressed, they may even call you. A $10 top up for the card lasts a couple of days of heavy local use ... as opposed to $100 a day or so when you use your phone lots with your original foreign SIM card in it.
Internet cards, I am repeatedly told IP Telecom works best in Khreshchatik / Bessarabska area... I was getting a whopping 50.6 kbps connection with them. A $10 card lasts about 15 - 30 hours depending on the time of day you use it. Just remember to configure your modem for pulse dialling, not tone dialling.
Locked phones can be unlocked at a lot of phone shop kinda places for 20-30 UAH.
So Cruiser, did you score that 90k western quality apartment on Khreschatik you were sure you'd find? ;-)
Roger Mellie
03-21-05, 22:13
....."So in other words you didn't research the Kiev market, look at different properties or use two or more independent real estate agents?".....
Well Cruiser, I was in Ukraine for 3 separate week long trips within a 9 week period. The first 2 were largely "research". Apartments by day, other things by night. I wasnt surfing the internet in Boston. Why do you think I didnt research the Kiev market? Thats a big call for a guy who only just got there for his first visit.
And how do you get the idea I didnt look at different properties. I saw about 30 actually. Quite familiar with them now even. Did you just make that part up? :-)
As for different estate agents? I really dont think you understand how the market there works at all. As it happens, in the early days, I did use 2 different agents, until I realised all they do is show you the same properties. You see Cruiser, they dont really have their own properties for sale. You agent is an agent for you. They then contact the various other agents around Kiev to see what is on the market and who has anything for sale - the agents there are more like brokers than agents as you might know real estate agents. If a transaction goes through, the buyer pays 5% commission. Half goes to your agent and half goes to the sellers agent. So all your agent or any other agent is going to do is phone around, see what properties are on the market that meet your criteria and show you the same properties.
....."I'll bet you the first round at 111 that apartment you looked at will still be on the market when you go back to Kiev. ".....
You owe me a beer. :-) I havent been back in the last month, but have been told it sold for 105k a week after I left (about 2-3 days after the studio in question had jumped from 80k to 110k)
Further, I was talking with a friend while in Moscow on the weekend, a professional Russian real estate developer who by coincidence had also moved into Kiev in December trying to buy up properties, and she reported a plethora of difficulties nailing down sales. I was jealous in Feb when I left empty handed cause I know she had managed to get deposits down on a few places, but it turns out her deposits didnt add up to much. Vendors are dishonoring deposits because doing so means they can sell again for a much higher price now. So you see Cruiser, the market is not as simple as you may have been led to believe it was. People who do this for a living, locals even (my Moscow friend is a Kiev native) are having all sorts of trouble nailing down purchases at even vaguely reasonable prices.
NeilSydney
03-22-05, 13:53
I used the company mentioned by Cruiser (www.uaapartments.com). I don't think they are particularly honest, even considering it is kiev. What they advertised and promised was not delivered when i got to the apartment. Also, I had to spend a week in a bedroom without a single functioning light - which they would not fix. Perhaps it was just the apartment.
However, one thing they did do well was provide a phone for my visit. I didn't have a GSM phone but rented one for a few bucks a day from them. It was a pretty good quality one. Though it didn't have credit, despite the promised 15 hryvna. But that's no big deal. That's "little money".
Anyway, others may disagree, but I won't be using these guys services again.
I used a service called http://www.uaapartments.com/ . The've gotten a bunch of good reviews and one very bad one. I posted a few comments about them. Service was minimal, but that is the way it is over there. But I still enjoyed my stay very much and I wouldn't have a problem using them again. I can't remember the pricing on the phone card or the internet card. It's the same deal as in the west, only a little cheaper. There are kiosks selling the cards all over the place. On Khreschatyk you can't walk 5 meters without coming across someone selling the cards. All the rental info is on their webpage. They sold me the cards at face value.
Also, for all you first timers going to Kiev. I had all my bases covered except for one very important thing - I didn't bring my own unlocked GSM phone and the phone I rented was in Russian. I can't stress how much better it would have been if I have my own phone to PDA the girls. I was juggling 20 non pro's and 4 pro's it got very confusing. ;)
InterTraveler
03-23-05, 12:34
In January I stayed right down town in Kyiv across from O'brians for $70 usd per night and during the inaugeration when to DT was closed to traffic I moved out to vul Lesy Ukrainky near the Central Election Commission for $40 a night .
I plan to go back in May. I wonder who much prices will jump during Eurovision
RM, attached is a cut and paste of some charts on real estate prices from the online Kiev Post. The link is http://www.korrespondent.net/main/115635.
I wish you the best of luck with your real estate ventures in Kiev.
The Primary market: dynamics of the prices for 1 square meter in areas of Kiev in grivnas:
Area 1-roomed apartments
2-roomed apartments
3-roomed apartments
February January % February January % February January %
The Center 8148 8159 -0,1 9780 9441 3,6 8453 8193 3,2
Goloseevsky 5447 5990 -9,1 5813 5989 -2,9 5192 5205 0,3
Darnitsky 4129 3900 5,9 3846 3709 3,7 3513 3415 2,9
Desnjansky 3822 3844 -0,6 3485 3369 3,4 3069 2894 6
Dneprovsky 4889 5338 -8,4 4617 4799 -3,8 4048 4168 -2,9
Obolonsky 4789 4370 9,6 5043 4714 7 4772 4447 7,3
Pechersky 6684 6688 -0,1 7118 6949 2,4 6889 6113 12,7
Podolsk 4023 3855 4,4 6012 5656 6,3 5466 5142 6,3
Svjatoshinsky 4015 3903 2,3 3840 3733 2,9 3412 3321 2,7
Solomensky 4719 4886 -3,4 4460 4666 -4,4 3895 3992 -2,4
SHevchenkovsky 7930 7136 11,1 9544 8678 10 7594 7909 -4
The Secondary market: dynamics of the prices for 1 square meter in areas of Kiev in grivnas:
Area 1-roomed apartments
2-roomed apartments
3-roomed apartments
January February % January February % January February %
Goloseevsky 5772 5598 -3 6660 6753 1,4 6336 6574 3,8
Darnitsky 4781 4850 -1,4 4644 4773 2,8 4349 4355 0,1
Desnjansky 4611 4588 -0,5 4225 4245 0,5 3993 4111 3
Dneprovsky 5364 5121 -4,5 5013 4949 -1,3 4700 4700 0
Obolonsky 5238 5325 1,7 5475 5507 0,6 5186 5343 3
Pechersky 8094 8377 3,5 8380 8878 5,9 9150 9487 3,7
Podolsk 5483 5528 0,8 5589 5628 0,7 5483 5898 7,6
Svjatoshinsky 4792 4791 0 4876 4885 0,2 4476 4856 8,5
Solomensky 5283 5402 2,3 5121 5321 4,7 5259 5271 0,2
SHevchenkovsky 6812 7061 3,7 7109 7632 7,4 8056 8870 10,1
....."So in other words you didn't research the Kiev market, look at different properties or use two or more independent real estate agents?".....
<deleted comments>
Roger Mellie
03-24-05, 22:04
I take my hat off to you sir. You clearly are the man with the knowledge. I shouldnt have even bothered going to Kiev 6 times in the last year. A simple cut and paste from korrespondent.net would have made me lord of Kievan real estate wisdom without even leaving the safety of my bedroom.
If only I had done that I would have been able to get my western quality 2 room (approx 60 sq metre) apartment on Kreshchatik for $90k ... just like Cruiser did. I mean you did get it, right Cruiser?
Oh well.. at least I won a beer. And can I have one for my friend here too:
Mickey Mouse
03-25-05, 02:55
I am home now in Sex Prison and I thought I would share some experiences of a "Newbie" to the Kiev scene. Roger, Mangus, Ukeboy, Cruiser et al can share the specifics of pricing, where and for whom (ladies) for those who don't know because my experiences in these areas were limited.
It is always a bit intimidating when one lands in a strange place for the first time so I thought I would share some suggestions to help those first timers.
The Bad:
Kiev, Ukraine and the people have a way to go to join the western world and adapt to the tourist industry. They seem to take 20 steps in 18 different directions in order to take just one step forward (if they are lucky). For the most part, they (People, City and Country) are disorganized and inefficient in most of what they do (ex: customs, service businesses etc). There is also a large portion of society who try to take advantage ($ and GRN) of us visitors and scam us for an extra "buck" when possible. Bring a calculator (if your mind isn't quick enough) and Stay on your toes!
A couple examples:
1. On arrival I had go back to return to the end of the line 2 extra times in order to get through customs. Once because they decided the forms (which I had filled and used in Jan) they had previously been using were no longer good; another because they decided that "Four Visitor Lines" (one I was in) were for a tourist group and No other foreigners (visitors) even though No one had said anything or put up any signs. Keep a sense of humor!
2. Before I checked into my apartment I was quoted daily pricing in $. When I checked in they used 5.4 (not 5.3) to convert to GRN before charging my credit card. Of course I couldn't see the numbers used, just the total they showed my on the calculator. When I realized and challenged them a few days later they blew it off with a stupid excuse, but they were not stupid enough to repeat the same mistake at checkout.
3. Most taxis don't have meters, so fare negotiation is a must before travel. Of course it varies between drivers, time of day, weather conditions and the direction you're heading. Become familiar with the city, it's pretty easy.
4. Many restaurants and and tourist places don't "Itemize" their bills and it seems to me that it is so they can "Pad the Check" when they present you with the total. Be aware!
5. Kiev is not Cheap and doesn't have the bargain pricing that other cities (BA) may have.
Now The Good:
1. Kreschatik (specifically Bessarabs'ka) is "The Place' to be. Everything is within walking distance and right there: Markets, Stores, Restaurants, Bars, Shopping, Women and Fridays (ok, shoot me).
2. The women are beautiful and friendly (freebies are possible), so smile, be patient and don't be shy.
3. What you see on the outside is NOT what you may find inside! Walk in all the doors (lit ones at night) and see what you find, you'll have some pleasant surprises and some great adventures. Be Adventurous!
4. Keep a "Sense of Humor" and enjoy the "Adventure" because it can be a Great Adventure!
5. Changing $ is easy and cheap (<.5%), and ATM's are everywhere.
There is probably much that I have forgotten and dismissed, but please feel free to PM if there is anything you'd like to know.
BTW: Kreschtiksuites.com is recommended and offer many services, just watch their conversion rates.
Until BA in April,
This Newbie Mouse
rm, if the best you could do is a soviet era studio for 110k some where in kiev center then indeed it would seem that you did waste six trips to kiev. how did you know i was in my bedroom, have you been peeking rm?
i'm sorry if your opinion of ukrainians who researched that article for the kiev post is so low you don't think they can tabulate and average a real estate spread sheet. or tell me, does having too much information bother you? of course i'm looking for uber prime real estate so those numbers will be higher for me. but as for a general baseline and for the areas you are looking in i have no reason to doubt the validity of those numbers, do you? also, how did you happen to miss those banners hanging up in bessarabska sq touting 5000grv /sqm? of course the prices are going to keep going up until the speculation busts. but certainly not at the obscene or ridiculous rates you would have us think. at your inflation just hold off until the end of this year. by then the real estate values will be on par with paris, london and nyc.
if you want to spend 110k for a soviet era studio in kiev more power to you. several expat friends that i made in kiev and several girls (no doubt desperately suicidal over my absence) suggested that i move to kiev and make my living there. i replied that i really didn’t see anything that would sustain my economic interest or make it worthwhile over what i currently do in the us. but now i see selling real estate to foreigners might just be my ticket to kiev nirvana and riches beyond my wildest dreams.
also, just so that you can keep your data straight on me, i’m looking for something slightly smaller then 60 sqm in kiev. i like to keep my vacation properties small and numerous.
but honestly rm, i wish you the best of luck with your real estate ventures in kiev, just don’t take any wooden nickels and try not to buy the same place that five other people did that same day too.
i take my hat off to you sir. you clearly are the man with the knowledge. i shouldnt have even bothered going to kiev 6 times in the last year. a simple cut and paste from korrespondent.net would have made me lord of kievan real estate wisdom without even leaving the safety of my bedroom.
if only i had done that i would have been able to get my western quality 2 room (approx 60 sq metre) apartment on kreshchatik for $90k ... just like cruiser did. i mean you did get it, right cruiser?
oh well.. at least i won a beer. and can i have one for my friend here too:
Mouse,
Thanks for your report, it was a pleasure to read, even by a long-timer such as myself. I can only agree with your comments on "The Good" of Kiev and Ukraine. I would also say that your number two in "The Good" is what keeps me here!
Now as for the bad, allow me to make some comments that I hope will help you on your return as well as others who are planning to come here. One personal comment. Having visited many cities around the world both on business and pleasure, scamming visitors is a profession practiced in every corner of the globe, not just here.
Now as for the bad, point for point.
1. When you get into such situations as being sent back to re-write a new customs form or any other queue in ths country, you should insist to the customs agent (or any other form of petty authority) that you be allowed to return to the head of the line once you have the new form ready. It is a common practice here with the locals. All customs agents there, by the way, do have some basic to good knowledge of English so such a request should not generally be a problem. Just be sure to ask politely and not be demanding.
2. The higher conversion rate is common here for many services such as what the local ladies provide. The original quote is in dollars and that is the preferred method of payment. If you pay that amount in Grivna, then if the local kiosk exchange rate is 5.3, they will quote you a rate at 5.4 as an extra percentage for them to re-convert the Grivna into dollars. Same for other services. It really does not amount to all that much but as you did, you can contest the charge.
3. Even taxis with meters sometimes need negotiation. You can actually go somewhere cheaper with a metered taxi if the driver is willing to take your money and not turn on the meter.
4. Most of the better restaurants do give you a computerized itemized bill. The single lump sum method is used in the cheaper older places. I agree, do be careful and keep at least a rough idea of the total in your head.
5. Kiev is not as cheap as one might think for the foreigner and/or the tourist. There are many good and very inexpensive places to eat and drink if you know the language and have been here for a while or have visited many, many times. My guess is that if I went to BA, more likely than not I would have written the same thing as you did about Kiev, as an outsider.
One more point. Can you give us a better url for kreschatiksuites.com. It does not work, at least not here with that address. Thanks again and let us know any more of your thoughts and comments.
Roger Mellie
03-25-05, 16:03
You win ... its like having a conversation with a 12 year old.... utterly pointless.
I am not here to debate halfwits.
Ok mate, looking forward to reading about the remainder of your nocturnal Kievan activities, and hopefully seeing some pictures.
Mickey Mouse
03-25-05, 17:03
The correct site: www.kreschatiksuites.kiev.ua
Should all this real estate talk be in the General Info section.
I plan on a euro trip next year, for about 6 months. So I generally come in here to see what each country has to offer for entertainment.
Kiev Pages gettin kinde Real Estate firm web site.
Hi guys..
After Orange revolution where gals gone.!!! No action anymore..
Zagor
Bez Bezarra
03-26-05, 03:21
Hey Zoster!
Didn't you ever learn that if you want something done,
then you just have to do it yourself?
Oh that's right, you're not from the west! Silly me!
Hey IH8 ! What are Handjob-A-z's? Is that Asians?
And you TomCruiseDLoser!
DO NOT even think about dissing our Mell-meister!
R Smelly is a gorilla among mongers, you would
be fortunate to even carry his preservatives around.
You've added nothing here, so take your properties
and go on permanent vacation from the board, ok?
At this point, any more of your drivel and we'll all be
suicidal!
I'm not dissing anyone MM...
Except for a barrage of sometimes questionable pictures your really don't add too much yourself. Sorry for posting information, I'll try to keep my postings inane with eye candy. Oh wait, we already have someone doing that.
In order to keep this forum civil and from descending into bickering this will be my first and last posting in this negative vein.
TomCruiseDLoser, now that was funny, rare but funny.
Hey Zoster!
Didn't you ever learn that if you want something done,
then you just have to do it yourself?
Oh that's right, you're not from the west! Silly me!
Hey IH8 ! What are Handjob-A-z's? Is that Asians?
And you TomCruiseDLoser!
DO NOT even think about dissing our Mell-meister!
R Smelly is a gorilla among mongers, you would
be fortunate to even carry his preservatives around.
You've added nothing here, so take your properties
and go on permanent vacation from the board, ok?
At this point, any more of your drivel and we'll all be
suicidal!
Roger Mellie
03-26-05, 11:44
(1) Try and post a reply without quoting the entire previous text. Everyone else here is old enough, smart enough and more than capable of following the relevant references. You are only wasting as much of everyone's screen space as you are of their time.
(2) Are you going to just get on with it and post the remainder of your travel log and some relevant pictures or keep boring everyone with your teenage whining?? We are not here to see you walk around with your dick in your hand. You only exaggerate your irrelevance in taking on Mangus Man... Love or hate his "poetry", the guy has posted more pics on this board than everyone else put together. And he has got them from parts of the Ukraine that you will never have heard of and would be too afraid to go to anyway. So just get on with it.
Bez Bezarra
03-26-05, 13:54
You better check yourself before you wreck yourself.
This is the WSG, home of the monger.
You want kudos and admiration, then go post on the
World Apartment Guide, where eveyone will fall
all over themselves about your properties, thanking
you for your interesting and pertinent contributions.
Here you'll only find contempt and righteous indignation,
for the time has come for you to go now.
And if this only gives you questions, then perhaps you'd
be more at home in some soapy bath house in San Fagsisco.
Guys I need your help, I will be coming to kiev in the end of april, can any of you recommend a good apartment service !!
thanks in advance
VD
May someone tells if the girls of "stars from heaven" give a good service?
Thank you for your fast help.
Gentlemen,
Winter, as far as Kievan ladies are concerned, is officially over!
I had a few meetings today all within walking distance of each other and all on or near Khreshchatik. For the last two-three days it has been sunny, the snow pack is quickly melting away and temperatures had been at +9C or +10C but today it is closer to +3C.
That means lots and lots of ladies on the streets, in various states of dress or even undress. I saw one very long legged lovely blonde with corn rows in a very short bright pink leather miniskirt and top, plus same colored high boots. I regret I did not have my camera phone with me then. She was licking an ice cream and I very much envied that ice cream!
The outdoor pleasure and viewing season has now begun!
Mickey Mouse
03-29-05, 21:15
Damn, I knew I came home 10 days too early!
All the girls in Stars From Heaven are carefully selected both in terms of decent character and good service..
If you're lucky enough to make a good selection, the good service might turn into long-term-surprising-enough occasions..
However, it's best to try out for a short encounter of 2 or 4 hrs upon first meeting for the opportunity of possible independent meetings for the future..
I also confirm this is an excellent agency. Girls advertised are real and provide services as stated. There have been several positive reviews of the agency and of some girls in this forum recently (including by myself). Just browse back.
Handyman #2
03-31-05, 01:00
Hello Everyone!
I would first like to thank everyone for the useful information that I found on this website, both for Russia and the Ukraine.
I just returned from a business trip to Moscow, Saint Petersburg, and Novgorod in Russia; Kiev, Odessa, Simperpool (sp?) and several other cities in the Ukraine. Since this business trip was being paid for by a company I was trying to get a contract with, and the main representative seemed to be a "Holier than Though" type of guy, I couldn't be too obvious looking for "company". Plus the entire group (four from the main company and three people also trying for the same contract I wanted) always stayed in adjacent rooms in all the hotels, ate meals together and the occassional after a long day drink together, it was very difficult to "experience" the places we visited. Since it was a normal 12-14 hour work day with traveling to next location on the weekend, mongering was very hard to say the least. I did have a little luck in breaking free in each of the Russian cities for one night each (will put those reports in appropriate sections in near future) and a few lucky nights in the Ukraine. We originally arrived in Kiev on a Sunday and got checked into Hotel Dnipre (SP?) and just my luck, I had the room right across from "Holier than Though". The first day we ate in the hotel and had excellent food both meals, then we were given a little excursion around the city to get us familiar with it, since the winner of the contract will spend a large amount of time here over the next two-three years.
Just walking around this city was pleasant to say the least. Many friendly people, and the ladies were especially friendly and helpful. Since the contract will involve installing computer systems in many universities and other places we were all over the city and I was charmed by many of the ladies we met. One lady even slipped me a piece of paper with her telephone number on it. After four days, we proceeded to Odessa and again I had bad luck with my room location so no dice there either. Although Odessa is smaller than Kiev, I liked it even more on first impression. We spent two days in this city touring the city and job sites. Then we proceeded on a group of 1 and 2 days trips through many other smaller cities in the Ukraine (so many I got confused on which cities we visited and what each city was like). After about ten days of this, working all day and then travelling late in the evening to the next city, I was getting tired and cranky! At one location, which was a pretty small town, but was told it was an important communications hub/port, we couldn't all stay in the same hotel so were split up into two hotels. Finally, my chance! Since I had privacy at last, I explored a little on my own, but didn't find anything P4P or freebie, so I went back to the hotel and decided to have a drink at the hotel bar. Since I was the only customer, I tried talking to the bar tender who was also the desk clerk, but at first couldn't make myself understood. But when a lady walked through the lobby and I almost broke my neck turning to the sound of the high heels, he finally understood! He made a phone call and asked me what I wanted in a girl. With sign language, he understood I wanted a younger lady that was large breasted but a small waist. When I hung up, he told me 1 hour and that he would bring her to my room. I emphasized discretion and he laughed.
One hour latter, a knock on the door and there he was. With two ladies to chose from. The first was approximately 25, short but big breasted, but a little too much meat for my taste. I would rank her a 8 for face but a 6 for body. The second was just perfect! A dark blond about 22, 5'9, slender with Ds or DDs. The face was an 8 and the body was a 9.5. Naturally I chose the 2nd girl. I slipped the guy a tip and he disappeared with the non selected lady. After trying to talk English to the girl, I found out she didn't understand anything. Finally, I found out her name was either Anna or Janna. And she charged 75. So we got down to business. We showered together, with a lot of soapy fun and a bbbj in the shower. She wasn't the most experienced I have ever had but she was still great. We then moved to the bed for some cuddling and trying to make ourselves understood. She played with my little soldier untill she got him to come to attention again, and then started another bbbj. Since she was so clean I DATY and she loved it, but got a little too loud for my piece of mind. So we moved on to 69 until she had a very violent orgasm! After that she really got into the sex. WOW! In one hour, we each at 2. But she still showed no signs of wanting to leave, so I called the lobby and had some wine and cheese and other snacks sent up. She really seemed to appreciate this and really started giving gfe service. After we ate and had a drink, we decided to shower again. Thinking that this was the end of our time together I wasn't in a great hurry. So she again did a bbbj in the shower but much better this time. The surprise came when we got out of the shower and she dried me off and then herself. Then she got back in bed! At this point it was almost two hours since her arrival. DATY again, then some cuddling, more DATY and 69 then more FS then standing FS with her looking out the window and on and on. Six hours later, I was too worn out and just fell asleep. I awoke shortly after daylight and there she still was in the spoon position! I thought to myself that $75.00 for all night was a great rate and with a terrific lady too. I decided to see if she would wake up as a shrew as some women will when they get "poked" in a sound sleep. Not this lady, she was into it even before she woke up! When she did she indicated she wanted a standing doggy again. Then another shower and she wanted DATY and 69 again. Being 55, I didn't know I still had it in me (especially without Vit V). We did everything for about three more hours, then I had to hurry and pack and meet the others from the group. She helped me pack and got her self ready to leave. Since I didn't want to be caught, I decided to pay her and let her leave first. I gave her $80.00 cash and she looked at me funny and shook her head. I thought she wanted more money. I decided to show her that I didn't have much more money and showed her my wallet. She reached in and pulled out 75 gvi and started to walk out. I gave her a tip of 25 gvi more. And she hugged and kissed me and was gone.
The rest of the day was a blur for me. A small town with this kind of service for so little money. What a dream come true! We spent several more days on the road visiting town after town, but no other opportunities presented themselves. After close to three weeks, we returned to Kiev and again checked into Hotel Dnipri. Three more long days of work and then turn in our initial estimates for the contract. Which I am praying I will get.
The company had us booked to leave the next day, but there was some confusion on my ticket (booked on a flight that no longer existed) so I took advantage and stayed an additional two days. When I checked back into Hotel Dnipri, they asked what the problem was and I said that there was a mix up in my reservations and I would be staying an additional two nights. Since my room had not been serviced yet, I moved right back in. I had lunch and pondered where to start my adventure. Since it was still morning the clubs were not an option, so just decided to walk around and try to meet people. I meet several shop ladies but was rejected on a dinner date. Especially since I told them I would only me there two more nights. But I just couldn't lie to them. Then I remembered the slip of paper from the lady that worked in the university. She spoke English quite well, so I called her and asked her for drinks after work and then to dinner. She agreed to meet at 6pm and have a drink or two and then to dinner. One problem, I couldn't remember her name, lucky she gave me her cell phone number and not the office number! At 6pm she showed up and we went to a local bar close to the hotel. She told me she is 32 and has never had any kids but wants them. She had worked for the university for almost ten years and was really looking forward to the computer upgrades. We talked for about two hours about everything, but not once did she mention her name again and I was too embarrassed to ask directly. She is sharing an apartment with three other ladies at the university and said she hadn't dated in several years (maybe a good sign). She asked me how soon I would be starting on the work. I then had to explain that I was just one of four companies bidding on the contract so it was not a sure thing. I don't think she liked that answer, but if I lied it would be a very bad start if this was a start.
We proceeded to dinner, in a small ukranian place that seemed surprised that I was a foreigner. Very good food at a fraction of the the cost of the hotel. After dinner, we went for a walk and she showed me more of the city. When we got too cold, we caught a taxi and went to a bar close to the hotel again. And had a couple of drinks. Everything was progressing pretty good so I asked her if she would come to my hotel room. She seemed offended a little and said that when I came back to call her and we could try again. She made an excuse and left. Still don't know her name.
What to do? To early to go to RP, so I decided to check out a strip club not to far from the hotel. I think it was Club Millineum or something close to that. Very high entrance fee, I think it was 100 but there were real nice strippers there. One really caught my eye, she was a 9 face and a 9.99 body. I keep trying to signal her to join me but she seemed to be ignoring me. When I went to the rest room, I saw her in the hallway and asked her to join me. She said that she was ready to get off work and wished me a good night. Not to bad English either. By this time, I figured that this place would either be too expensive for P4P or was unavailable. Time to check out RP!
A taxi and 25gvi later (I know too much) I'm at the famous River Palace. A small entrace fee and reasonable drink prices. I was a little hungry so got something, mistake! Not good food at all! I was a little disappointed in the disco, it wasn't near as big as I had pictured it and at midnight nothing in there over a high 7. Most 5 and 6s. Then in walked a nice brunette that was a possible 8. I bought her a drink and talked, her English was so - so. And she wanted $300 (US) for the night (or maybe 2 hours). I really didn't like her attitude so I didn't even negoiate. About this time, I am thinking of trying Rest town and start for the door. I just get to the door and in walks the girl I was drooling over in Club Milleneum. I turn around and follow her back into the disco. I immediately start chatting her up and bought her several drinks, her name was Yuly (sp) and she seemed very nice. She got up and danced by herself and she could really move. I decided to dance too and she seemed to like it and we danced for quite a while. We had a couple more drinks and then I suggested that we should have drinks at the bar at my hotel. At first she seemed reluctant but finally agreed. We proceeded to Hotel Dnipri and had a drink in the lobby bar and were the only one in there. We started kissing and playing around on the sofa. Finally we went to my room and had the desk bring up some drinks and snacks. She is in my room and I still don't know how much she is going to charge me, but I decided that I would let her bring up the money issue. She saw the stack of books and my laptop and asked what they were for. When I told her it was estimates for installing computer systems throughout the Ukraine and in three cities in Russia, she was quite interested. She asked me how long this would take, and I said 2-3 years for all the sites. She asked if I would be commuting to the states constantly during that time and I told her not unless the company wanted a face to face meeting and that I would be staying in Kiev mostly. Then she seemed more interested in me and asked me to put on some music. She started dancing and I joined her and it was slow dancing all the way! She had a way of melting into me and moving exactly with me. I was getting real hot at this point and started feeling more and more body area. When I unzipped her dress, she just smilled at me and did a strip tease that ended with her at the bath room door. When she came out she was in her birthday suit and I almost had a heart attack. She had a gorgeous body! At least a C or maybe a D breast, tight stomach and nice ass. After my shower, we took it slow with a lot of kissing, then DATY (which she really loved) a bbbj, 69 and then every postion you could think of. Standing, sitting, lying down, doggy! She was really into it too. We went at it all night and into the morning. We fell asleep in each others arms. The next morning, I woke up with wood and we were at it again. She really loves DATY and couldn't get enough of it. We had breakfast sent up to the room, then lunch. She made a phone call and told work that she was sick and couldn't come in. So we had supper in the room because she didn't want to be seen. But I wasn't complaining. We watched a little TV with her translating for me, and enjoyed each other some more.
During one slow spot she asked me if I would be hiring locally when I started the contract. I told her yes, that I would need to hire an interpreter and some manual labor. She wanted to know more and we got into a long discussion. She asked me if she could have the job of interpreter since she could speak, Ukrane, Russian, English and a little German. I tried a joke that she would also have to keep me warm at night and her reply was "of course"! So now IF I get the contract, I have my first employee! She ended up staying until plane time and insisted that she go to the airport with me. Not once did she ask for any money, but I slipped $300 into her purse and told her it was for refresher English lessions for technical language. WOW! What a woman!
The one funny thing that happened was when I was checking out of the hotel. Mr "Holier than Though" was escorting a very young lady out of the hotel to a taxi! When he saw me, his face became real red and he stammered a greeting and came up to ask why I was still there? I told him about the reservation mix up. I then asked him if he knew the golden rule of all military? He said he didn't, so I said "What happens on the road, STAYS on the road"! I thought he was going to cry, I then introduced him to Yuly (sp) and said that I was also interviewing for a intrepreter IF I got the contract. He smiled big time, then insisted that my extra two days was part of my initial stay and that the company would pick up the tab! Damn! If this had happened in Moscow on the first stop, we could have had a good time chasing women together!
Globe Trots
03-31-05, 16:17
Dear all,
I must apologise, but after having asked for and received advise and information, I am now no longer headed to Ukraine in May. The problems of getting reasonably accommodation and the other price-inflation issues associated with Eurovision make Ukraine increasingly less and less attractive. Perhaps spring/summer 2006.
In the meantime, I will be travelling to Budapest, Brasov, Bucharest and Istanbul, and will do my best to keep some form of travel log and report back when I return home :)
President Victor Yushchenko signed a presidential order today temporarily lifting all visa requirements for citizens of the European Union as well as Switzerland. This in effect from May 1, 2005 until September 1, 2005.
This is a test period only, it is not permanent.
During this time, various agencies will track the results of this change. Also, they will be closely watching what the response will be from the EU and Switzerland, namely looking for their possible easing of restrictions for Ukrainians who want to visit the EU and Switzerland.
Hello,
please can you give some link where I can read about it?
So if I understood well, for EU citizens no need visa to get into Ukraina?
Is it enough only passport?
Really?
It is wonderful!
If you read Russian, here is the link:
http://www.podrobnosti.ua/power/president/2005/03/31/200888.html
If you know English, the word for word translation is here:
http://www.ukranews.com/cgi-bin/openarticle.pl?lang=eng&id=608889&lenta=po
I assume reporters from the international press based here will be reluctantly ripped away from the local ladies and will file more complete reports on this in the next few days.
No further additional details have come through as yet. Too early. How they handle this at the national entry points such as Borispol I assume has not yet been determined.
The real devil is in THOSE details!
Gentlemen! Please!!
This is still Ukraine!!!
Citizens of the EU may have gotten visa free travel for the summer, but how that is implemented at the border crossing still has a month to go before any real details or information, if ANY, is forthcoming. It may well be that come May 1 real chaos may be the case at various border points.
You got the good news, now the reality of how it works here will be the key. That may be another story.
I agree, mainly in my case that I will plan to go into Uk. by auto from Slovakia across border of Vyzne Nemecke.
I think I will get visa as normal by agency.
I guess anybody here went to Uk. by auto?
Some info about city of Uzhorod and Mukaceve? Or where I can find some link about these city, hotel and so on? I searched in google without sucsess.
Thanks in advance.
I will, as I did in sp. piter, wrote many posts about it and share with you many foto when I will come back.
Some info about city of Uzhorod and Mukaceve? Or where I can find some link about these city, hotel and so on? I searched in google without sucsess.http://meta-ukraine.com/en/?rgn=312
Better results are in Russian language.
You're gonna have a real adventure while travelling by car..
If you wanna encounter even a real-time thrill, just try to go through Moldova to Ukraine...
Nemez thank you, I will try to find info on this meta.ua.
Vegamars, today morning I spoke with guy from Moldova that works in my company as driver of camion, he need about 2 days from Venice to Kishinev, and they are about 2.100km.
I think in about 13 hour and about 1.200km I will arrive at border Slovakia Ukraina across Slovakia or even faster across Hungary.
I am quite sure that going trough Moldova or travel by auto in Ukraina can be.. thrill but I plan to go not far from border only to have idea how is Ukraina, this is why I will stop in city as Uzhorod or Mukaceve. I have quite cheap car but I won't to come back home by train.. LOL.
It seems you did this travel by car, what about it?
Handyman #2
04-01-05, 23:25
Having recently spent over three weeks in a large van with 8 other people on the roads of the Ukraine, I admire your guts for an over land travel to there!
I would suggest seat cushions and an extra spare tire. While I did enjoy the trip immensely, either our driver was really poor or the roads outside of Kiev have a large number of potholes. During one long stretch, we had not one but two flat tires!
Good Luck on your adventure!
Handyman #2
04-01-05, 23:29
Does your report on the visa change affect business visa requirements?
When we first arrived in Kiev out company guide took us to a government building to get our business visas registered, while relatively painless, there was still the line to deal with. When I come back do I have to go to that same office again, or was that a one time shot?
Thanks
Handyman,
Unfortunately, other than what has been reported, no other information has been forthcoming. And this being Ukraine, it may not come at all or may come September 2 when visa free travel has ended.
If you are an American or Canadian you still need a visa. This visa free travel advantage is only for those who hold EU or Swiss passports.
I suspect that if you are here, even in summer, on official business and you have to deal with government agencies or for any possible reason come across some official who needs a look at your passport and visa or approve or register documents, then the best bet still is to have that visa.
My suspicion is that if you come here on business that has no connection to the government, you can come in without a visa for this summer period if you say you are coming in for a holiday.
If I see any further clarifications on this issue, I will let everyone know.
Handyman #2
04-05-05, 15:47
Uke Boy;
Thanks! Since my business visa is good for five years, I will be okay. The question was more on the need to register with the right agency "every time" I go there. Standing in those long lines are a hassle, even though it is relatively painless compared to the problems we had in Saint Petersberg. Our guide and contact didn't explain whether we would need to do this every time we went or whether we only had to do it once.
Handyman #2
Have a Great Day and happy hunting!
In Kiev and wouldn't meeting up for a tour of RP (newbie). PM if interested.
Europe 74
Traveling Male
04-08-05, 17:14
Hello fellow gentlemen / mongers,
I'm finally coming to Kiev to see/nail all the women you have been talking about, will be there for a week long starting around 21st of April, and will have nothing to do but to hunt for the freebies. If you like to help me explore this town and it's bars, maybe we can land some freebies together, you know, it's always good to hunt in groups after all...
Private Message me if you like,
Traveling Male - "See my reports in Germany's FKKs section"
Traveling Male
04-08-05, 23:24
Any one knows if gia escort agency is still in business? I tried to call the two phone numbers they list on their web site, but they both say "the number is not available at the moment".
Anyone knows?
Thanks
I believe they are still in business.
I received an e-mail with an update of their escorts, a few days ago.
Maharadjah
04-10-05, 07:51
The number of gia in their website doesn t work properly.
Better to send an e-mail to book an model and then they will give you another number.
MR
Traveling Male
04-10-05, 19:03
Hi all, Roger M.,
I've reserved an apartment with http://www.apartments.com.ua but I got an email from someone called Sergey asking me for a wire transfer for $160 to gurrantee the reservation. He said they don't take a credit card reservation. Is it safe to wire them the money like this? I know several people here have dealt with them before, but I just wanted to confirm this is the way it is done, and it is not a scam given that they requuire a money gram/western union transfer.
Help here is very much appreciated.
By the way their other web site is http://www.edem-club.net
Roger M, can definitly use your input on this...
TM
Roger Mellie
04-11-05, 18:48
Yep Sergey is cool. He doesnt speak a lot of English (the girls in his office are all fluent) but he is totally kosher. He did it for me that way too first time I dealt with him but once he know you and trusts you he just books it on an email ... but since its your first time, its all very normal to take a deposit for the apartment. You can trust him.
They have 2 websites cause they run two businesses... the apartment subletting business (which is secondary) and the main show which is marriage agency (thats the Edem Club part of it). All in the same office just off Khreschatik
> I've reserved an apartment with http://www.apartments.com.ua but
> I got an email from someone called Sergey asking me for a wire
> transfer for $160 to gurrantee the reservation. He said they don't
> take a credit card reservation. Is it safe to wire them the money
> like this?
While I seem to remember paying by creditcard with them last year, I suppose that something must have gone wrong since then with processing mail-order payments in Ukraine, prob'bly because the whole thing is very open to fraud and the transactions are probably not permitted by creditcard issuers outside the immediate region. Wouldn't surprise me at all, to learn that it's been stopped. Having said that on the card side, Sergei himself is fine, as are the folks he works with, and they all sorted me out happily and without trouble, despite a few minor changes of plan upon my part. They're ok.
AndyJ.
Traveling Male
04-13-05, 02:40
Dear fellow Mongers,
Thanks to all who helped me so far with their input, well, so far things are looking good, had the apartment reserved, made some contacts with some girls from the internet dating sites, got some numbers, and even called a couple of them from the US today, and how sweet it is to hear those 19-20 yo girls voices on the phone speaking english in their cute accent.
I'll keep you all informed with what happens.
TM
Hey Guys,
Will be in Kiev late summer for about 4 days. Can anyone PLEASE tell me the names and addresses of any girl-friendly hotels, and where is the best part of town to stay in? Also, what clubs are active now, and what about the language, I speak only English? I have added much to the forum in various countries, now I need some info. Thank you.
Roger Mellie
04-15-05, 07:03
Everyone I know stays in apartments. Look thru the last 6 months and you will find plenty of short term apartment rental agencies mentioned. As for location, I prefer the area around Bessarabska Ploschad (Bessarabia Square), at the southern end of Khreschatik (downtown main street).
Language ... well Russian is the main language in Kiev. You should however, not have too much difficulty with only English ... but again, its an often discussed topic and the info is all on here, just look thru the posts.
Clubs, the clubs havent changed a lot in the past 6 months, and yet again, all the info is on here, in depth.
Take some time, look back thru the last 6 months of posts and you will have a wide variety of opinions on all the topics in which you are seeking info. All the info is on here.
Ludovico,
You asked about in-calls. Yes, they do exist and they are very similar to privats elsewhere. As a matter of fact, recently someone has come in here and apparently set up a series of such upscale for Kiev privats that have Jacuzzis and saunas along with a number of ladies. The prices for these privats are also higher than then usual crap places that used to be used for such meetings.
Most of these privats are now advertising on such sites as uaescort.com and kiev-x.com as individuals. .These sites are unfortuneately in Russian, does anyone know of sites in English for escorts in Kiev? Anyone tried these upscale jacuzzis in Keiv, would be interesting to hear thier expereince and recomendation?
Roger Mellie
04-16-05, 01:36
Just on flying 3 day visit to Kiev ... This is the only capital city on the planet that you can turn up to, meet a bird you have never known existed and KNOW you will nail her within a few hours - every time you come here. Kiev is first night shag freebie heaven. It is unique.
I wonder if the ease of nailing birds will go by the wayside as Eurovision and the hordes it brings passes though.
I have to post some reviews on some other bars ... namely Stina (The Wall), Viola's Bierstube and Staff Bols Bar ... but they can wait till tomorrow.
Roger Mellie
04-16-05, 09:57
Stina (The Wall) is on Bessarabska Pl, opposite Fridays. Its a dark basement bar with a few different rooms and cavities. They serve passable food too. Apparently it was quite the expat hangout a couple of years ago, but its more local now. Good selection of beers (Hoegaarden, De Koninck, Leffe - blonde and bruin - on tap). A more mature crowd than some of the other bars in Kiev. Girls seem more likely to be 28-32 than 18-22. Struck me as a good place to meet a girl for a dark dinner rather than under the non-romantic bright lights of Fridays.
Viola's Bierstube is just 20 yards from Bessarabska Ploschad, and its a small packed place where everyone seems in the mood for a good laugh. Again, its a good place to take a date for a drink. Everyone is happy and smiling and having a good time. Lots of expats.
Staff Bols Bar (also less than 100 yards from Bessarabska) is a fascinating place. Its more like an exclusive little private club that makes cocktails to order than a regular bar. Its a good atmosphere there - feels very private, though better the later you go and the drunker you are. You and your date will leave there drunk. If you want a unique atmosphere and to get your date smashed without speding a fortune, this is a good late night choice. They also have Kalyan. I can vouch for the fact that you and your date can get totally wrecked in there.
None of these places are particularly pick up places, though Violas had a few unattached women in there checking out the expats, so they cant really replace standards like 111 and Shooters, but they are all good places to take dates or birds you met on the internet 3 hours earlier.
Michael1972
04-16-05, 12:52
Hey Roger
On what sites do you meet those freebies?
Cheers
Roger Mellie
04-16-05, 16:21
try ICQ, or dating sites like http://omen.ru/LOVE.HTM
Traveling Male
04-18-05, 16:50
It has been an eventfull 24 hours for me here in Kiev, landed here yesterday at the airport, went through the customs relatively easy, and the officer who checked my passport she was smiling at me... so I thought this would be a good start.
Outside, had my apartment manager rep was waiting for me with a sign that has my name on it, he then took me to a white hyndai car parked outside, and off we go to the center, trip took about 30-40 mins... my first impression of the city was not as bad as I imagined it would be. We got to the apartment, paid my rent, asked for a mobile phone rental, but was promised to be contacted by someone later.
Well, I was, and the lady on the phone said $5/day... I passed and thought I'd be able to find better deals by shopping down krechatyk st.... Big mistake! almost all shops I stopped by don't speak English, or they don't rent phones... Oh well... should've taken that phone!
Later that night I go to this night club called Arena behind the shopping market and TGIF, and to my surprise, the place is full of girls! and pretty ones too... so I decide to approach this blond and I start talking to her, she doesn't speak English very well, but she grabs my hand and leads me to the dance floor... and off we dance for about a half an hour, then recognizing the language barrier, I opt out of the dance floor, and we both just stand and watch the dancers, then comes two of her friends, one of them is a tall blond who speaks very well English, so I start flirting with her, and we all dance together... then comes the Milion dollar question from the first blond: you like me? I say yes, the she says, "you, me $400!" I start laughing as I wasn't expecting this high of a price and from someone who doesn't even speak English well... I politely decline, her friend though continues to wink and look at me from a distance, but my mind was set on the first girl, I go to her friend and ask her to translate for us, so she gladly does, I offer $150 till 9:00 AM, it was 2:00AM at the time, she translates to her, and to my surprise, she agrees! since I had only Grivena on me, we agree on 800 Gravina, which amounts almost to $150.
We walk out, and since my place was around the corner, I suggest we walk rather than take a cab, and a hoard of little begger boys and girls follow us asking for money! great!, I bet no one here had that experience before, I simply ignore them, but they keep following us all the way... well, after almost getting to the apartment, they finally give up, but boy! I did I have to push and shove my way through them!
Off to the apartment... well, it turns out the language barrier was a real problem, she starts taking off her clothes, what a killer body she had! I try to take pictures, and all of a sudden she gets mad, and she wants to leave... not until I show her that I deleted the pictures from my camera that she decides to stay... sorry guys, no pics on this one! I still manage to have a good lasting session with her, we sleep and wake up and do it again since there was nothing else to do but to f**k, and we couldn't talk much.... Until about 9 in the morning, when she leaves, and I was done by then!
Oh well, good so far, now I try to go hit the shower/Jacuuzi, and guess what? the WATER iS SHUT OFF! errrrrr....
I call the apt mgr, and they say it cut off the whole building, I wind up spending the whole day without water, so I just go to sleep till 3 in the afternoon...
Now it is about 7:00 PM in the evening on Monday, and still no water, and I haven't showered yet!
I guess that's Kiev's way of saying welcome to me! :)
Did I say the girls on the street are extremely hot? :p
Wait, what is that sweet sound coming from the bathroom? brp, brp, brp! Is it water flowing into the vains of this old building again? Wooohaaa, time to clean off, and get ready for a new adventure tonight!
To be continued...
Well, I was, and the lady on the phone said $5/day... I passed and thought I'd be able to find better deals by shopping down krechatyk st.... Big mistake! almost all shops I stopped by don't speak English, or they don't rent phones... Oh well... should've taken that phone!All shops offer new mobiles for 50 euro + 10 euro for the number.
I start laughing as I wasn't expecting this high of a price and from someone who doesn't even speak English well..The catch is that YOU don't speak Russian ;-).
Bez Bezarra
04-20-05, 01:49
Maybe prices have come down this year, but in every
shop last year, all the phones I saw were about
$115 to $160 dollars. It has nothing to do with the language,
the price is clearly marked in $Hr.
I hereby nominate the tit-grabbin' Mellster
as this month's Pillager-in-Chief.
Traveling Male
04-20-05, 09:49
Decided to buy a phone, here are the prices of 2 of the cheapest phones from 3 different shops on Krytchatyk street:
Semins: 400 rpH ($80)
Motorolla: 315 rpH ($63)
This is without a SIM card if you have your own (they call it the package :) ) SIM card will cost more, then a recharge of 100 minutes will cost 50 rpH
I know I will be back here again, so this was a good investment! The girl that rented me the phone from the apartment rental office was very very helpful, she even took me down Krytchatic street and helped me shop for a phone, and an international card to call the U.S.... (Which you can buy from the post office by the way near Independence square) what a cool girl, she wasn't as hot though, but still, good company, and very very helpful for a first timer like me who doesn't speak Russian, I then took her for a drink for her help, but I opted for not trying to do any thing further.
TM
Last year I have found without any search a Siemens mobile for about 70 US$ (shop near train station, Celentano-Pizza on the roof).
Best deal would be to buy a used mobile at a market (rinok).
TM, When I was there my impression of Arena was that a lot of kept (or looking to be) girls liked to hang out there. Which is fine in of itself but I went there 3-4 times and never spotted anything that peaked my interest. It's NYC expensive and the food was hit or miss. It was relatively new back then, hopefully it's improved, otherwise it's a pass.
Girls asking for $400 are common because some foreign smuck will/has paid it. But remember the average person makes about $300/month and trust me there is going to be a girl even hotter then the $400 girl who will happily take $150 and rock your world.
It has been an eventfull 24 hours for me here in Kiev, landed here yesterday at the airport, went through the customs relatively easy, and the officer who checked my passport she was smiling at me... so I thought this would be a good start (delete most)..
Mickey Mouse
04-20-05, 23:58
FYI:
If anyone is going to be in town late may/june, let me know and maybe we can share a beer or wine or ......
The Mouse will be returning
Two weeks and I'll be back in slavic paradise..I'll be in Kiev from May 5th-16th.
FYI:
If anyone is going to be in town late may/june, let me know and maybe we can share a beer or wine or ......
The Mouse will be returning
Traveling Male
04-22-05, 12:11
Guys,
It is freaking cold here! and it is snowing outside right now!! what's up with that? no said any thing about snow! what happened to the mini skirts I drooled on when I arrived here last Sunday? I miss them, the locals say it is normal around this time for it snow, something about the week before Jewish Easter.
Here is something I had here two days ago to warm you all up :p
Its My Life
04-23-05, 00:22
Guys,
It is freaking cold here! and it is snowing outside right now!! what's up with that? no said any thing about snow! what happened to the mini skirts I drooled on when I arrived here last Sunday? I miss them, the locals say it is normal around this time for it snow, something about the week before Jewish Easter.
Here is something I had here two days ago to warm you all up :pTravelingMale, you have great taste on girls, and I am so jealous of you hehe. I wish that I could speak some Russian, so I can have the same trip as many wsg members here. Once again thank you for your great post.
Thx
Traveling Male
04-25-05, 17:13
Its my life: No problem if you don't speak Russian, it would help, but you'd still do well without it, I don't speak Russian at all, and was able to have a good time so far. But it would definitly help very very much if I would've spoken good Russian, better Taxi negotioation abilities, better communication when buying & selling stuff, maybe be able to travel to other smaller cities where no one speaks English, but most importantly, better communication with the devys :)
More pics in the photo section, this was a quickie from River Palace.
Enjoy,
TM
FYI:
If anyone is going to be in town late may/june, let me know and maybe we can share a beer or wine or ......
The Mouse will be returningMickey,
I will come to Kiev at the end of may, probably on 22nd after Eurovision, with one or two fellow mongers. We have already been in Russia but not in Ukraine. We will be glad to drink champaign with you and dyevs ;-) Also available for other wsg fellow members.
Detailed reports will follow. Do you know how to convince girls to pose for photos ? Are they relunctant, is it easier with a couple more bucks ? Good advices will be rewarded with cool pics :-)
Traveling Male
04-27-05, 23:07
Dant,
Here are some of my techniques for convincing the girls to take good photos:
- Method 1: I used to do some photography work for models and actresses back home, and I see you have a very nice body with model's potential, would you like me to take some really nice pictures of you and see how they come up on my digital camera? (make sure you have a nice digital camera on hand, not just a small dinky phone camera :) )
- Method 2: You know, you and I had such a nice time, I want to take a picture of us for memory... so first take a couple of pics with you in them and show them back to her on your digital camera, then say, oh this didn't come out good, let's take another one... and so on, then once she gets comfortable, and the game becomes fun, she will want to see herself looking beautiful in your camera, so she will allow more and more photos, and it all depends on how smooth you are... simply make up execuses, for example, that the bra is hiding your natural beauty... blah blah blah... , and their goes the bra, then use your smooth skills to fill in the rest... it isn't exactly rocket science, just go with the flow...
Method 3: my least favorite, with no creativity at all.... offer more money! lol
TM
Roger Mellie
04-28-05, 05:33
Start off asking them to take a pic of you ... give them the camera and let them take absurd pics of you naked, pose for them and do everything yu want them to do later ... then take the camera back and do the same to them. They are always 100% more willling to let you take pics if they have just done the same to you.
As soon as they are gone, delete the pictures of yourself.
Bringing a tripod and a few spare lenses helps with freebies. Leave them laying about conspicuously and the dyev will surely bring up the topic with an easy line like "Are you in to photography?" or "Are you a professional photographer" at which point its 'game on'.
Starchild2012
04-29-05, 12:12
Just take a picture of yourself first and then take the pic of your girl and then delete your picture, how simple, and street smart ennn !!
Just a question, I being finding an answer for a long time, why all good things that we desired utmost has to sometimes comes from cheating.
Just think someone else does the same thing to you, how would you rate it then.
I thuught the world has changed, its the same medivel times were the strong ruled the weak.
Just do this in our home land america and you know what you up for, Just 'cos East Europe is affordable to the dollar effect. It does not mean to exploit and cheat in just as simple as taking a pic.
Just ask a girl, if she don't like it, forget it.
Just because we seem we are smart, intelligent and powerfull, does not give the right of exploitation.
Common its height of smartness and lack of goodness :)
Doctor_Skank
04-30-05, 02:02
born loser:
i am probably too drunk and sex-numbed to comprehend your infinite wisdom... but what the fuck are you trying to say?
i humbly suggest that you find a website more "your speed". you are in the wrong place and should take (no) pride in your own self-proclaimed loserdom.
whatever whatever whatever. more porn please.
Confuscius always say: trust man with 524 posts more than loser with 27 posts!
Roger Mellie
04-30-05, 13:36
Correct me if I am wrong here, but is someone actually complaining about using psychology to assist in getting pictures taken of naked women? Thats gotta be a first on this website.... the morality of getting women to pose for pictures? I think Skank is right. I think you need to have a think about what websites you choose to view.
Further, I would suggest its bordering on racist that you suggest "we" are smarter and more intelligent than Ukrainian women ... Do you think they are stupid? Do you think they dont have their own reasons for sleeping with foreign guys? Do you think they are so stupid that they dont know what they are doing? Do you think they dont have the intelligence to get what they want out of relationships with foreign guys?
If so, I would point out that there are websites full of divorced Americans, Canadians, Brits, Germans etc who have lost half their life's savings to intelligent Ukrainian women who would strongly disagree with you.
But it you feel anything more than bluntly asking "Pictures, yes or no?" is inappropriate, then I have to assume you are just as 'honest' with your dating technique? I mean why ask a girl out for a date, buy her dinner and drinks when really all you want to do is pump her full of spunk and take pics of her afterwards, anything else is simply being deceptive. You dont really want to buy her dinner. You do it cause it might lead to her kissing you as you walk back down Khreschatik. You dont buy her drinks cause it gives you pleasure. You buy her drinks to get her drunk and to one step closer to getting her in the sack. You dont flatter her with witty conversation and compliments cause you thik she is a great conversationalist in a language she barely speaks, or because you really do think she is the best looking woman in the world. So forget a romantic date, forget the seductive looks and the flirting, the hand holding, the invitation up to the apartment for "tea" ... The honest approach would be something like this.
"Hi there. I couldnt help notice as I walked down the street that you look like a bit of a s1ut. As it happens, I am hoping to be lying naked on top of a s1ut (possibly just like you), sweating away and banging later tonight. Furthermore, I am not particularly fussy about who in particular lies underneath me and has my sperm blasted all over her face as I am a foreigner visiting town for a few days and besides, meaningful relationships give me the creeps - anyone will do really as long as she is young, slim and s1utty - just like you are. So if you like the idea of me naked sweatily pumping away on top of you, practising my bukkake technique on your face, taking pictures of you naked and then posting them on the web, then lets go back to my flat."
Hmmmm ... not sure this honest Indian approach would lead to much success in Kiev. Is that really how you approach your potential dates in Mumbai?
Traveling Male
04-30-05, 18:03
Mr Looser:
Since when flirting with a girl, getting her in a good mood,, making her feel comfortable and relaxed is called cheating? It is what nature has mandated on all gentelmen of this earth to do for its ladies, and most members on this board seem to realize that, those who don't understand it seem to be loosers, and girls call these men names like weired, freaky... you name it, but they all translate to one word: Looser.
nuff said...
Loser just makes a simple point about taking photographs, "Just ask a girl, if she don't like it, forget it". Thats his point of view. Others may want to write essays about the psychology of tricking women into being photographed. And thats there point of view. Personally I find the a simple open and fun request works best. Please note confuscious, many users of WSG change there name every so often, thus the number of reports is often redundant.
Cheers
Roger Mellie
05-01-05, 07:15
No it isnt a simple "yes or no" point. It was actually about exploitation if you read the post. What it has to do with exploitation is anyones guess.
I thuught the world has changed, its the same medivel times were the strong ruled the weak.
Just do this in our home land america and you know what you up for, Just 'cos East Europe is affordable to the dollar effect. It does not mean to exploit and cheat in just as simple as taking a pic.
As for the dollar effect??? What does that have to do with anything? I use the same dating style in the west... and use the same methods for getting pics of wealthy young London women.
Starchild2012
05-01-05, 10:44
If it ain't about "exploitation", then tell me why we haven't come across a single person in WSG who has dared to show his face with a girl in pictures gallery, they paint themselves black in photo shop and depict the women as if a "congressional medal of honor" to us folks, what an achievement, I bow down.
Why you mean to say it isn't about exploitation, may be it is a stronger word, yet it is about it.
Just please if it ain't about it, I'm yet to see a MAN, stand in shoulders with a *****, women, cutie pie, babe from Ukraine pose with you, inline equal to you and dare you post in WSG picture gallery with your face intact:) and with the same pose that the women does to you, you doing the same in full flare of the camera, just like you would love to see the women do, and to all folks who had already posted it and question or think it ain't cheating or exploitation, please remove your blackend face and post the pics as they are....then it would truly be respectful and responsible to the women you doing with, else i fail to understand , why wouldn't you call it simple trickery, cheating, exploitation, Man its less when you do things unknowlingly, its worse when you know it.
And in the same way, if it ain't about dollar effect, why would you not like to do that, we all know deep down, what we doing, so we hide in the cover of dollar power, let the dollar do all the damage we are safe.
Who would read the post in ukraine, these girls are safe, its the "I" that we are concerned about.
what if i post my pic with a women In WSG, what if my work mates see's it, what if my son sees it , what if my wife sees it, what would be my image or whatever, if it ain't for this or more. WHY WE NEED TO DELETE THE PIC WE HAVE TAKEN WITH A WOMEN and then just post the women's pic doing all sorts of pose.
And if it ain't about "morality and prostitution" and not about "sex with minors"
Yeah! yeah! WSG is just a sex guide, why wouldn't Jackson then encourges sex with minors forum, why would he have charities in Argentina.
Blow off your load In Ukraine and Russia, thats what sex guide is all about, those who want to preach morality should be send to africa as fathers to the needy. This really is a wierd world, were morality is not needed there are thousand ready to preach, and whenever a word of doing and thinking good comes, in an unmoral situation, folks try to throw it out.
BTW, As Simon said, when the server was down couple of months ago, I was not able to log in to my user account, so I had to make a new account, as you say black knight the numbers were lost, I would make sure the next time to check if I'm in line for the higest number of posts.
thx.
Synombinky
05-02-05, 03:03
Please no argue, my fellow miscreants. Who cares? You think any of these girls are sitting over a computer and spanking it to pictures of Patrick Swayze right now? How many people posting on this board have even been to Ukraine? We do what we do and they do what they do. Personally, I applaud Doc Skank, Roger Mellie, and any one of you who posts any pics up. I'd buy any of you degenerate bastards a beer, any day. Keep the reports and pics coming, spaseeba. This board is the best sandbox on the net. We're all here to play in the sandbox. Remember gentlemen: There is to be no fighting in the War Room!
Peace, love, and pizda.
Binky
Bez Bezarra
05-02-05, 04:35
could the source of current whining be eminating from
the rectal areas of one of jackson's biggest fans,
the so called "victor malarek", author of the gripping
expose' now available in bookstores everywhere for the
modest price of only $26.95.
well, why haven't you nasty mongers had a peek at this
fascinating read? you're really missing something wonderful,
excuse me i have to vomit.
our ingenious writer, whose name is more likely victoria than victor,
was inspired to take a few magazine and newspaper articles and stretch
them out 200 pages to dupe anyone eager to read selacious details
about prostitutes and willing to cough up the cash to buy this trash.
of course the book is all about the newest trend in
mongering, the "natashas", i.e. the greatest injustice
in the annals of all humanity, slavic prostitutes.
in the book, all slavic ladies live in a world of
innocence and beauty and poverty. one should believe
that their only appropriate future is to be destined to a
lifetime being married to a fine slavic man who drinks,
smokes, and beats them.
this is quite preferable than having any western male
desire them, for we will only provide support for their entire
family as we have our way. you see, except for law enforcement
officers, all other individuals of the male species are described
as uncaring bald, fat, smelly, hairy, with bad breath,
and irresponsible, and we always sweat profusely as we
climax our demon seed into the sex slave ladies.
yes though, the ************* is prominently featured in the book as the
primary impetus behind our sinful desire to spoil the motherland's most
precious resource, no, not oil, but the natashas! according to the author,
posting here is solely about boasting how many orgasms we cause our
delicate dyevuchkas to reach, while we enrich russian organized crime
to the tune of billions.
how does this sound? without the wsg, a travleler would be hard pressed to
get laid in a foreign country. now, a stopover in a metropolis is an orgasmic cost-effective sexual smorgasbord! we can't wait to tell our cybersex brothers about our recent sex tours in pornogrphic detail.
but the best part is where we are told that if we truly cared about dignity, we would all pay the prostitutes and abstain from any physical contact with them. this way, we could end the biggest problem in the world today. :-)
At last got membership upgrade so can now post, (was pretty quick really.)
Only found this site a few days ago, and have to say "what a pleasure!!"
Been wanting a trip to Ukraine to explore all the options available for long time, this site has been outstanding so far, thanks for all the links and the info. Was delighted to hear abt the new visa regulations and will make arrangements to visit Kiev/Ukraine asap.
Am well travelled so far with a few EE capitals under my belt, but never had what you guys would call a real mongering expedition yet. Either past buddies too conservative or married, or been with GF.
Any guys intrested in a trip late may or early june ( dates flexible) then let me know if you're in the market for a wingman. Will be travelling from UK or can hook up in theatre.
Will of course be delighted to update all you gents on return...:))
No fighting in the war room-a classic movie indeed.
If you have moral's, what the hell are you doing on this site. Go bible thump somewhere else.
I live in boring ass North America(Canada), the woman are as cold as the weather. Fat girls have attitude here and think they can get any guy. Woman here are spoilt and want to control you. Most clubs/bars you go to are a sausage-fest, so it reaches the point where you do not bother to go out.
So at night I come on here and escape into fantasy land. Has anyone checked the stats on Ukraine, ONE MILLION more woman than men in the 18 -64 age group.
Ah one day i will reach this far a way place.
I think Born Loser 5 is the Mumbai correspondent for the Kyiv Post.
For those of you who wish to be amused, you should read this recent editorial "The Coming Summer Sex Boom" by the Post's senior editor. The link is here http://www.kyivpost.com/opinion/oped/22660/
I guess this editor apparently does not read his own paper. Come to think of it, not many of us here actually read this so-called "newspaper." For those who do not know, the back pages of the Kyiv Post contain a great many ads for "personal services," "escorts," and "massages." I guess the senior editor does not realize (but soon will) that these ads are a very major source of funding for the paper and pay a substantial part of his salary.
Hehehe, It seems to me that this guy is pissed because he wasn't able to get one of the young devuchkas for himself :) . Maybe if he came here he would get the info he was so lacking in his article :D
I also see that the prices for the apartments on ua-apartments has gone up for the summer season. The fact reamains people are making money so all this will never stop.
Bez Bezarra
05-09-05, 12:25
Just remember 2 things.
All those Kiev Post escort service ads are really just one or 2 "agencies"
with 14 different telephone numbers, operating with the blessing of
authorities due to thier payment of "special fees", in other words,
sharing the money foreigners bring in to the country. The agencies
advertising are for foreginers, locals aren't calling them, so I don't
think anyone's worried about their sisters and daughters, those ladies
are pros.
Mr. Editor seems more worried about seeing the nice freebie/non-pro
party girls grabbed up by tourists instead of ex-pats. Welcome to
Prague/Tallin etc.!
Doctor_Skank
05-09-05, 13:26
It was always certain that Kiev was going to become a more difficult (or at least more expensive) playing field with time... both for those pursuing freebies and those opting for pros or those like me, who enjoy both.
This was inevitable, we all agree... however the Orange Revolution and Yuschenko's efforts to make Ukraine "Western" have greatly sped up the process. This "negative" development was all very apparent months ago….
I have long lamented that the economic and social "progress" that some posters seem to get all excited about are in fact tell-tale signs that the party is winding down.
Like it or not, more foreigners pursuing pros in Kiev means higher prices and worse service and more groping tourists in Kiev bars and clubs will eventually lead to standoffish girls ala Tallin and Prague.
The girls will still be there though and it isn’t the end of our fun... for example spoiled Moscow women no longer "need" foreign men but there are still plenty of dyevs happy to date and bed foreign guys nonetheless... but the onslaught of sex tourists which seemigly looms ahead will defintely make our task more difficult and will certainly spoil the joys associated with exploring frontier territory.
The freebie game in Ukraine is sort of weird-- there are no certain rules and if there are any, they're certainly to be decided by the women..
While most guys talk about stories of meeting up a couple of girls per day, they're mostly unaware that almost all those girls are meeting a couple of guys in a day.. trying to get the optimum benefit in all ways..
Is it by coincidence that it's so easy to meet new girls and almost every girl you meet are so willing to leave after a few hours of adventure?
Perhaps the most conspicuous scene even more than Kiev is reflected in Lugansk and Donetsk.
The Donbass region is famous for the most beautiful,intelligent and cunning girls who are each dating virtually with at least 10-15 different western guys..
Hence, the area is flooded with so many foreigners who're too naive in believing a new start-up in life.
Of course, the end result is the spending of a fortune and complete disappointment..
In any way, the action will always be supported by the mere attractiveness of curiosity and will of new adventures...
Doctor_Skank
05-09-05, 23:59
Vega:
I heard some absolute horror stories when I was in Odessa. I got to know some "popular" girls who told me they keep mail order bride guys on the hook for months without giving them any sex... and these guys shell out thousands to visit them and buy them designer label clothing... and trust me, these girls were nothing special... cute, blonde... but average club quality...tops.
...that's the down side.
The up side is if you have some charm and play your cards right you'll still get laid for the price of 2 rounds of drinks and a box of duty free chocolate.
Bez Bezarra
05-10-05, 02:58
What the hell's wrong with a glass of juice and a cheese sandwich?
If she ain't blowing you after that, you really should
kick her out your door and into the street!
Roger Mellie
05-10-05, 05:56
Or a cheeseburger
Hi! All,
Anybody is going to some Eastern countries in new year's eve, if yes (and possible of course) I would like to join you guys, please let me know.
Thanks in advance,
Eros
Doctor_Skank
05-10-05, 15:10
RM:
Now that's a lovely burger... does it have a name?
MM:
Orange juice and a cheese sandwich may have worked in 2004, but as I have recently discovered, 2005 prices are way up! The big city girls are asking at least 2 cocktails and a box of chocolate!
I'm probably the guy spoiling the market, I've been giving them $5 H&M string tangas as a perk.
Member #2744
05-10-05, 19:35
Info is out that EU-citicens (and Swiss) will no longer need a visa to Ukraine?
Anyone of you crossed the border since?
Is it so easy now?
Duesentrieb
05-10-05, 21:24
Yes, It is so easy now !
A Visa is not required anymore, you just have to fill out the Immigration card and the customs declaration before going through the control.
Information also here: http://www.ukremb.org.uk/eng/cvs/index.html
Funky Bump
05-12-05, 07:35
Hello Gentlemen (and ladies, that's cool too!)
My bro's and I are heading to EE for some actual sightseeing and touristy stuff. But, I like to blend in a little mongering during the night. Some of my friends are up for it. Others are cool with it, but just like to chit chat with the girls.
So, does anyone have info about hotels that are affordable (I'm not loaded) safe and clean. Or, what part of town we should be in. Also, night life suggestions would be cool.
I'll be in Minsk for 2 days, Kiev for 2 days and Moscow for 2 days.
If you don't want to fill up this "board" with this info, just PM me. Although the hotel info might be useful to others because I couldn't find any here.
Thanks,
Help me help others
Funk
Had a call last night from a friend who lives in Kiev that the Irish bar he frequents and the bars in the surrounding areas of Maidan/Kreschatik were heaving with Dutch and German youngsters getting pissed and abusive.Looks like Prague, i mean Kiev, is in for a tough stag summer. I hope they annoy the authorities so much that they go back to visas soon. Another friend also got mugged outside his apartment by 2 Ukrainian teenagers and he got a cab home as he always plays the percentage and plays it safe for a $2 fare. This never used to happen so maybe the local thugs think that new tourists mean easy pickings. You only used to get mugged for a small fine by the police before! I am back in July (7th time in a year,i hope i get over this mid-life crisis soon) though as sitting on Kreshchatik in the summer having a beer watching the women go by is too much to resist.
Jack.
While I tend to meet most of my pleasures in the local bars and restaurants, at times I enjoy sampling the local professional provider. One of the major problems with the two main sites, www.kiev-x.com and www.uaescort.com is that many of the photos are fake, especially on uaescort. These are mostly agencies that hustle you into what amounts to be a privat. The ladies are very hit or miss, mostly you want to run away when you see them. These privats also charge higher than normal prices. I expect that these prices will climb even higher once Eurovision starts and non-locals start using their services.
However, a new site from the kiev-x boss amounts to a breath of fresh air and openness. That site is http://dosug.com.ua/list.php?catid=0
These are mainly independents and the pictures are real. Unlike the other sites, at least here what you see is what you get. The only drawback is that it is a Russian language only site but a simple one, a basic knowledge level or translation software should be able to handle it.
Roger Mellie
05-14-05, 13:32
Outstanding research ... Kiev has lacked an reliable online dyev store.
Doctor_Skank
05-14-05, 22:28
kiev at night. what to do?
it was about 9:30 pm as i walked up kreschatik toward independence square.. a light drizzle kept the cool air fresh and i admit that it wasnt unpleasant, even though it did somewhat empty the normally bustling streets. i strolled along feeling as if i ruled the world. banging those two broads i had met at mcdonalds the night before had left in some sort of zen-like state of utter satisfaction and astonishment... i really couldn't comprehend how or why it had happened.... but sometimes good things do just happen and you gotta roll with it.
i eyed the girls on the street as they walked by and i nursed some sort of alcopop drink... a mango/vodka mix to get me in the conversationalist mood. i had just unsuccessfully tried to set up a freebie date with a few of my options...
...internet babe diana mysteriously doesnt answer her phone and even hangs up without speaking when i call... odd behavior for a girl that seemed incredibly eager to meet me. boyfriend? probably. a write off... shame though, she was born for porn. i spoke to her the next day before i left… she’s still keen… but i am sure she has issues to work out. who cares.
...sweet sveta from the "love in the time of the revolution" tour with rm is super happy to hear from me... i hadnt called her in months... but she cant go out that night... i really am not overly disappointed. she's b-list anyway. but i'll keep her warm in case such a situation pops up in the future.
...spikey blonde..also from the "littor" tour, in retrospect an absolutely fantastic fuck and wonderful girl, seems to have changed her mobile number... or more likely had her mobile stolen while she lay passed out in some club somewhere sometime. can't contact her... her number no longer exists. a true shame. i adore her. c'est la vie.
even though i feel a bit disappointed and even rejected... my mood relatively quickly turns to a vague feeling of relief to have struck out with my previous contacts on this wednesday night... the evening is now mine to enjoy in utter freedom. i truly prefer the hunt as opposed to the sure thing, even if doesnt always end in success.
actually, i had consciously planned... even to the point of being determined... to finally get some p4p on this trip. the reports guys had been posting on wsg convinced me of kiev's affordable quality... and actually i had wanted to do bang a pro in moscow at the begining of my trip and failed, my plans compromised by an overly possessive and sexually demanding new teenage girlfriend. shit happens.
so i weighed the options... i didnt want to try 111 again... been there too often. i considered modabar, arena, shooters and chaikovsky... with a probable nightcap at river palace. the idea of fire and forget rp sex seemed like the best option...but it was still early, so i had time to kill... i elected to go to o'briens irish pub. i more or less hate irish pubs (except for the ones actually in ireland), but it was a football night and i felt like reminiscing. i had banged an armenian hotty a year ago that i met at o'briens... my first in country ukrainian broad. nonetheless i was stuck alone tonight... watching chelsea playing liverpool in a rather uneventful game, while chatting with a pleasant and jovial englishman and drinking 3 slavutich. as the game ended in a draw i headed back into town.
as i strolled towards bessarbskaya and past chaikovsky and tgif something told me to try chaikovsky after all. the girls from donetsk i had the night before told me that the had been there and they liked it... chaikovsky was less than 5 minutes walk from my flat... a key "point of argument" when wooing freebies.
i arrived and went first to the bar to enjoy an overpriced (30 grv) vodka-red bull.... the classic clubbing cocktail... a true vice. a couple of fellow americans sat next to me and i unwillingly eavesdropped on their conversation...which was of course about girls and prostitutes. they were fairly clueless and i thought about starting a conversation with them to clue them in... obviously they weren't wsg members...
i noticed a few people headed upstairs to the other bar and quickly finished my drink before heading up myself. i took a stroll around the territory to get my bearings and "check out the talent " as rm says before selecting the bar as my primary scamming point.
the club is nearly empty and although early, i am already considering heading somewhere else... most likely 111... which is always an excellent option. i notice two cute teens also standing at the bar... one is a brunette with well-kept straight hair, a nice bosom, low-rider jeans, an enticing smile and gorgeous brown eyes accentuating her perfect feline face... the other a thin blonde, with a nice tight yet perky firm ass, tits pushed up with a wonder bra and something i have a weakness for… a somewhat non-descript yet angelic face… something like julie delpy… but the kind of odd face i like. i select the blonde as my target ( i am usually quite good at selecting the ones i can actually poke on the first night as opposed to the somewhat better-looking project type that do me no good on nights like this) and walk up to both of them, confidently annoucing "shto mi piyom?" (what are we drinking)... the brunette..who seems to be the more dominant of the two... smiles at me and says "b pidisyat dwa"... b52. a good drink. i turn to the barman and order 3 b52s.
we down them. i realize that i have a chance... they seem keen and the club is still more or less empty. i invite them to sit on a sofa near the dance floor and we move down there... even as they scan the cocktail menu i decide to ease their decision process and order for them. the girls get long island ice teas and i get a mojito. yeah i'm cheating again... but slavic girls like guys who cheat... and guys that take charge. we drink and get to know each other.. the conversation is fun even though a bit difficult... we are speaking russian. they dont speak english. the loud club atmosphere makes conversation a bit difficult, but thankfully the club is filling somewhat and and the girls dance... i join them off and on... i can dance fairly well if i am in the mood... and tonight i am. the brunette is a flirt... and not just with me... she seems to be interested in the dj, so i further my attack on the blonde... after about an hour i am getting some hand-holding and i kiss her neck. no resistance. game on.
we dance and flirt and i check my watch.. about 0230.. time to up the ante.
we sit together again... the waitress comes by and i order more cocktails and some calean.. apple flavor. the advantage of calean is that it encourages the girls to sit with you, makes them relaxed and makes the more inexperienced (or poor) girls feel a bit decandant. calean costs about $20... they couldnt afford it on their own.
i am fondling the blonde but make sure not to ignore the brunette... i flirt a bit with her as well... i realize that i actually like the brunette better... but i think switching gears now would be an error... i continue on the blonde.
the girls are loving the calean and getting cosy... we dance a bit and converse... and then a miracle happens... even though it is only about 3:30am the club turns on the lights... it is closing time! they play one last slow song and i invite the blonde to dance while dancing to that nelly slow dance song i start to kiss her on the lips... we french kiss and grope each other a bit.... and then return to the sofa. crunch time. time to cross the rubicon.
i ask the girls where they live... even without really listening to their answer i say..."ooooh...daleko!" (it's far!) i politely suggest that they can stay at my apartment.. it is only five minutes from here.
i swear... if you are in a similar situation and have two girls to contend with invite them both back to the pad... rarely will one go with you alone.. she needs her wingwoman... but more often then not they'll go if they can both come.
they converse with each other... the brunette says they arent sure... "lena baiyus..." the blonde is scared... of what she wants to happen.
without entering into any conversation i decide for them.. "paidyom"... we are leaving.
without arguing they come with me. we get our coats and leave... they seem a bit nervous, especially the blonde, but i drag them along and we leave arm in arm.. the security guards at the door smile at me as i give them a sly grin.
5 minutes later we are in my apartment... "oooo krasivy!"... they've never seen such a nice apartment... i operate quickly... low lights, candles, music, champagne... show them the jacuzzi... start running water....
we sit on the couch... i whip it out... ok, not it... but dermo.. my favorite book of russian slang. girls love it. they start reading and laughing in utter joy... the mood lightens.. they relax, realizing that i am not a psychopath killer or [CodeWord126] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126).
i get some gropage with the blonde... but keep the brunette warm as well.
they want to try the jacuzzi... alone and together. never been in a jacuzzi before. they are shy and want me to stay out of the bathroom until the bubbles conceal their slender bodies. how many times have i heard that before. if you’ve gotten this far you will score. at this point i am in the zone... they have no chance of escape now.
candles in the bathroom... lights out... sensual music... snap some pictures... the brunette is flirty and posing... this is gonna be good.
i am kissing the blonde and turn to notice the brunette giving me the stare. i stare back... at least twenty seconds... it seems as if time stands still... her mouth curls in a slight smile. yeah.
i move towards the brunette and begin to kiss her, clutching her firm breast... an exact handful. born for porn.
i begin sucking her breast...she moans... i finger her pussy... alternately giving the blonde some play too... i rip off my shirt and take off my pants and underwear throwing them into the corner... the brunette cries out "klass!!!" and i enter the tub... i kiss the brunette, who is at one end and turn my body so that my rock hard cock is pointing up, allowing...demanding... the blonde have "access". she goes to work, sucking me off as i mash with the brunette... about 3 or 4 minutes later i hear "zharka..." and i help them out of the tub... getting my first full view of their naked bodies... a dream. the brunette is shaved bare... the blonde has "the landing strip"... breasts perfectly formed... asses indescribably taut... i drag them into the bedroom... and go to work on the brunette... she has become my focus... even as i eat out the brunette, suckling on her pussy and she moans and grinds with pleasure i am groping the blonde lying next to her... keeping her interested and turned on... i grab the brunette, sliding my arm underneath her and swinging her 45 kg body on top of me... i am lying on my back and slide the brunette up so she is straddling my head and i can eat her pussy... the blonde in the meantime is dutifully sucking my cock.
after awhile i refocus on the blonde and go for the fuck... the brunette...wide-eyed and visually excited again mutters "klass!!!" obviously turned on by the sight of me about to enter her friend... my rock hard cock poised in front of her friends pussy, which seems impossibly small. the blonde is no longer nervous… she’s inexperienced, but she’s ready. i also think she is happy that i am fucking her first… she definitely feels like a second wheel to the brunette.. and sexually she is… but she was my first choice and she’ll get the first poke.
she’s wet, but i still have to work my cock into her…wetting the tip with her juices and rotating the tip into her to allow the initial girth into her cavern. her arms are at her side clutching the blankets, her legs spread wide and slightly wrapped around me… the brunette has drawn close but is not touching us, her mouth slightly open in anticipation. i slowly penetrate her and within two or three strokes i am all the way in… she is hot and wet and already moaning breaths of excitement, anticipation and surprise… my pace quickens and soon i am a piston, ruthlessly rodding her… propping myself up with my arms so that i can gain an occasional glimpse of my tool disappearing into her box… her slightly protruding pussy lips wrapped around my glistening prod. i am astonished by the beauty of the image, yet after a few minutes i turn my attention to the brunette and roll onto my back again… they both go to work on the dick, sucking and licking me. at some point i boost the blonde up to my face so i can access her pussy again while the brunette continues to suck me. i signal her to mount me and she does, taking some time and a bit of effort to fit me in.
at this point i really haven’t even comprehended what is happening…
…after a lengthy and tiring session, i finally decide to come. where else… i need a mouth. this time i choose the brunette, straddling her face as the blonde spanks my ass and tries to maintain some participation in the act. after a relatively quick few strokes i am ready to burst and do so, removing my rod from her mouth to blow the spunk all over her face and chest… she cries out in surprise and pleasure, trying to lick the spunk from her cheeks and lips. the blonde, inactively watching, is drawn into the game by a hand signal and a clutching of the neck. i lift myself slightly and let the blonde lick my dick of spunk and make her kiss the brunette again… which she does somewhat unvoluntarily… but then seems to enjoy when her girlfriend moans in faux pleasure.
i’m spent… and so are the girls… less than 15 minutes after the climax of one of my most memorable evenings in recent memory we are all sleeping soundly, me in the middle with a cute dyev on either side…
sometimes good things just happen.
What can i said Doctor? Just a simple BRAVO!
A whole standing ovation!!
I think professor will be more suitable then doctor.
Amazing report
Doc, great narrative :) Glad to know the young girls in Kiev still appreciate the more "worldly" men, instead of these pretenders who are coming due to the relaxing of the visa rules.
By the way, all those people who have purchased muliple entry visa's recently must feel pretty gutted this summer :( .
Anyway, I just wanted to know when staying around Khreschatyk, do you prefer to stay towards the southern end (i.e. Bessarabska ) or the Northern end?
Doctor_Skank
05-15-05, 23:46
Ludovico:
Glad you liked the story... I am almost embarassed to say that actually that was the second freebie menage a trois I'd had in as many days... I must have had excellent mojo that week... and a fair portion of luck!
As far as where to stay, I have always stayed at the Bessarabska end... but dont know if it is better or worse than the Independence Square side. Either way, most things are within walking distance.
As for the flood of visa-free tourists, time will tell what sort of effect they'll have on Kiev... but i can't imagine it being good for us mongers.
Buck Naked
05-16-05, 00:03
As for the flood of visa-free tourists, time will tell what sort of effect they'll have on Kiev... but i can't imagine it being good for us mongers.Sorry to say, the old rule of supply & demand will be in full effect this summer. More tourists = greater demand. Combine this with a steady supply, and the prices and/or difficulty of finding quality p will be much higher. This will probably be felt more around resort-type areas like Odessa and the Crimea, as opposed to Kiev.
10 days until I hit Odessa, let's hope it hasn't changed too much by then!
Their website is down since friday : http://www.gia.com.ua, it even has been removed from my DNS. Emails are on failure and nobody answers on the telephone :(
I also tried to write and call their associate massage salon Anahata (http://www.anahata.kiev.ua) without success.
Somebody knows what happened to Gia ? Do they have another email / telephone (PM me if you want) ? If it is closed, how is it possible to find their girls?
I'm coming to Kiev next week (any wingman welcome) and it was supposed to be the best agency with SFH. Most of us are basic punters, we don't speak russian and are not good in freebie dyevs chasing like Doctor Skank and Roger Mellie. So we need an affordable and reliable escort agency.
Doctor_Skank,
You left me without words!
I've been in Kiev twice (my report will arrive soon), but I NEVER felt even one mile near your situation!
Tell me the true: are you a famous cinema star - look alike?
Please, answer "yes" and I'll be able to sleep this evening!
No joke now - a very amazing report!
Ludovico: I used to live in apartment near the tube in Khreschatyk (just after McDonalds). But I feel you will not see any difference in all the street.
Ciao!
Dant75
Being here in Kiev does have some advantages.
I just called Gia, and at least the telephone numbers work and they seem to still be in business. The woman I spoke with assured me the site would be back up in short order if it was not back already. I just checked and it was not yet back up at 18:00 local time.
However, you never know with things here. If it does not get back online soon, the site may be off until after Eurovision. The authorities apparently want a clean image of Kiev and Gia is an easy target.
There are really only two other good sites besides Gia, Stars from Heaven at http://www.desiredstars.com/ and Kiev Beauties at www.kievbeauties.com. These two agencies are very reliable and the sites are in English.
Thanks for the info. The photo posted by Doc Skank is the best one I hav seen from Ukraine. I met 3 girls from Ukraine on Loveme.com but they looked like the girls on GIA--uugh. I like the prices on GIA but tyhe girls are not hot. Thank you for the other websites--I have visited that already. But again again 300 EUR for 400 hours is more than the hourly rate in Montreal and the Western European girls are worth more in terms of supply and demand and market economics.
No I am NOT criticizing your post. I am frustrated in my search for beautiful women in Ukraine who do not expect Western Eurorpean or North AMerican rates.
Keep me posted if you see anything. No hard feelings.
The great thing that I learn from reading your stories and posts similar to yours is that I realize the fun is not in catching the fish but in the fishing. The whole let's find an escort for x amount of money pales by comparison to finding one or two girls and picking them up. I have been experimenting with some of your ideas and have been going to clubs in the states trying to pick up horny girls. I brought a friend with me who had more experience than me and who was evry successful at it. I picked up two girls, one in front of her boyfriend. The club that we went to had a lot of groping as well. What is my point?
I guess my point is the more I read all of your experiences, the more money drops entirely out of the equation. I think while freebies are probably much easier to find over seas where these girls are looking for security, freebies can be found in your home country because everybody likes to have fun, fuck, and a little attention.
And if you can get the freebies, you're not out any money and te whole escort issue is dropped.
(What happened to your let's use a condom? You took a lot of chances with these girls?)
Good luck (though I am sure you will not need luck.)
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Kiev at night. What to do?
It was about 9:30 pm as I walked up Kreschatik toward Independence Square.. a light drizzle kept the cool air fresh and I admit that it wasnt unpleasant, even though it did somewhat empty the normally bustling streets. I strolled along feeling as if I ruled the world. Banging those two broads I had met at McDonalds the night before had left in some sort of zen-like state of utter satisfaction and astonishment... I really couldn't comprehend how or why it had happened.... but sometimes good things do just happen and you gotta roll with it.
. . .
Hi all,
I just checked and the Gia site is back up and online.
Enjoy yourselves.
Doctor_Skank
05-17-05, 09:58
Serse:
I hope that you can still sleep well...
As for the menage a trois, it was actually my 4th freebie menage in the last 2 years, so even though it isnt standard fare for me I must be doing something right. Although looking good obviously helps, I am not a movie star and I think that such successes really just prove that all the conventional dating rules or restrictions you have become accustomed to back home (whereever back home is) go out the window when in EE.
What I did right was recognizing my window of opportunity and then going for it.
If you have two girls on the hook (or most likely one on the hook with a bodyguardette) it is often easier to take both back home rather than trying to wrestle one free from the other. When taking them both back it may not pan out into a menage (and often I find one girl significantly more attractive than the other and let the "odd girl out" watch MTV while I violate her friend) but sometimes it does.
My 4 times worked out like this:
In St.Pete I was dancing with two girls and when it came closing time I invited them back to my apartment... both of them. It was freezing cold outside and they went for it. I had a jacuzzi... also a big plus for the menage. Girls were average, but it was free. And it was cold outside and I was much happier having two warm bodies next to me then sleeping alone or seeking an emergency 4am p4p option in -25 degree weather. As average as the girls were, the sex was really great... and plentiful. The average girls can be SO appreciative and giving. Mild girl on girl action.
In Moscow I was so drunk (and still suffering from some narcotic slipped into my drink at CF the day before) that I dont remember how I got the two girls to go home with me but somehow ended up in bed with them... again the prospect of a jacuzzi and the winter cold likely helped my cause. Girls average as well, but good bodies and some girl on girl action.
I fucked them singularly even though we all were in the same bed. Maybe the other one just passed out while waiting her turn... :)
In Kiev I met two girls from Donetsk at McDonalds who didnt have a place to stay (hotel overbooked) and I told them they could wash up in my apartment. Once there it was obvious they wanted to stay and I took them out for drinks and dancing and the rest was easy money. A pure opportunity score. Girls were above average hot. Some girl on girl action, but mild. Active double team.
The second Kiev menage was detailed in my report... probably the menage in which I executed my plan of attack the most precisely. Very good girl on girl action, especially in the morning... :)
I certainly hope the menage "doesnt" become a habit... its physcially "demanding"... :)
As far as the pro menage or double-team goes, it can be tricky to get a pair that function well together. If for example they dont know each other beforehand (say 2 tochka girls) the chances of girl+girl action or even an active involvement double team are not good... at least that has been my experience.
I did post on a great experience with two "opportunity pros" from Magrib on the St.Pete board... amazing girls... for $150 total. One of the most glorious sexual experiences I have ever had. I think they were just two girls looking to have fun and score some perfume money... I never saw them again.
If you get girls that do know each other and are comfortable with one another it can be pure paradise... having two girls suck your cock in tandem or boning one while the other eats her friend out or... you get the idea... real porn stuff...:)
What I have always wanted to try was one of those mama + dochka (mother and daughter) teams that are advertised on dosug.nu (Russia) ... anybody ever done that?
Gia worked for me today, so?
Other question, has anybody experiences with Dina from (http://www.anahata.kiev.ua) ?
I'm looking for a 1 week-compangnion for Crimea in beginning of June.
Just got back from Kiev, one of my suitcases liked it so much there it apparently jumped ship in London and attempted to head back. Hoping BA has corraled it.
I'm sure after experiencing the airport a lot of people will be praying Kiev doesn't win Eurovision again. It's hard to believe that it is an international airport for the capital of a country - well at least the roof doesn't leak and it's generally warm during the winter.
Dr S - I'm beginning to think one can't leave Kiev without a threesome - I had one forced on me too.
RM - not to reopen a can of worms - saw about umm, 10 or so apartments while I was in Kiev this trip. The winner of the trip was a 2 rm apartment with a refinished studio attached for the special price of 110k very near Maidan. Good deal, but I think I can find better. If you Western Union me 5k I'll send you the details...;)
As far as the hordes of unwashed tourists. Kiev is a great city but there are about 100 cities in Europe alone which are more interesting then Kiev unless one is a sexpat. And if it does get too bad, can anyone say, 'Minsk'? ;)
During my trip in Jan - Feb there were a lot of semi pro's working RP. This trip not so much.
Didn't make too many new friends, got too wrapped up in re meeting girls from the previous trip - big mistake. ;)
Doctor_Skank
05-17-05, 22:25
Guy 2:
I am glad you like the posts here. I truly believe that WSG is a learning forum… I have learned a lot here. I’ve learned even more by actually meeting other WSG members like Roger Mellie, CA_T or Shos to name a few.
The fishing is fun… so is the catch. Experimenting with ideas is the best way to go, you genuinely have nothing to lose.. unless you are experimenting on the boss’s wife or your cousin Maggie. J
Seriously though, who cares if you get shot down every now and then. Happens to me and everybody else as well. Move on. Experiment.
I also think pro sex.. especially in EE, BA,Thailand or wherever you can have the girl in YOUR apartment for the course of several hours or a night is an excellent way to practice your skills and GAIN CONFIDENCE in dealing with the opposite sex.
Confidence is obviously one of the single most important factors in seducing women… almost all women find confident men attractive.
My success in EE has panned out elsewhere as well. I have never gotten laid as often and as easily as I am now. And the girls are from everywhere. I think another important factor is that I don’t seem desperate at all… and this somehow intrigues the girls and maybe even makes them trust me more.
My point? Hmm. Don’t know really. But I’m enjoying the learning process.
For those of you who always bemoan the fact I never post any pictures...
Here are two super hotties walking down Khreschatyk. It took me long and hard to find two girls with bodies like these in Kiev - trust me.
Goldfinger
05-21-05, 00:05
They are a couple of Western Europeans in town for Eurovision!
Doctor_Skank
05-21-05, 14:21
CD:
You can keep your hotties... :)
Donetsk anyone? These two voted Yanukovich. In fact, going out a limb here, I'd have to say pro-Yanukovich girls fuck much better than their pro-Yuschenko sisters.
Yuschenko is not a Friend of the Monger.
Felix Nordic
05-22-05, 19:26
Hello gentlemen!
First report by me from Kiev! I was there 5 days in mid april before the Eurovison hell began. Glad I missed it!
I was there with a friend of mine not much into hunting female flesh. Anyway I had a pre-set date with a real stunner from the internet site russianzest. She was a lousy knower of english but from the photos she was a 9, and body rating 9,5. Or what do you think of 173 cm and 50 kg blue eyed blonde? ex-model.... Aim for the stars and you might reach the tree tops!
I do the Titanic method and go for it despite many signs of warnings.
All dressed up I meet her and a friend of her (because she doesnt know english very well) at TGI's near Bessarabska market. Very expensive but nice restaurant. The girls were 20 minutes late (seems to be a syndrome in all EE countries)
Anyway I was really happy to see that she was as beautiful as in the photos on the marriage agancy! What a georgeous babe! Finest legs and ass Ive seen. Well almost... This was top class! Having a real nice dinner and some flirting and holding hands and I even got to feel her hard well trained stomach after some flattering it was time for them to go home. I know I wasnt going to get a taste of her heaven the first eve. Bill ends at about $ 60 for us all.
On the way to the taxi her girl friend asks me; what about my money?
Me replying: What money?
Girlfriend: I work for an agency and I have been translator today and for 4 hours is total of $ 100.
Me: I havnt ordered any translator nor was I informed about any money involved in this. You got a dinner for $ 20 which is for free ofcourse.
Girlfriend: No, you have to pay me or you can contact the agency and they can explain.
Me: No, sorry, I never pay for a service I havnt ordered! You have to learn this if youre ever are going to enter into the EU (I was angry at this point)
Girlfriend: Ok! (she realise I wasnt a stupid tourist) From now on you have to manage yourself!
Me: Fine!
Then the hot blonde approaches me and says in poor english that her friend is upset and that I have to pay. I explain again, Sorry.. And gives her some money for the cab.
When I came back to hotel Ukraina I told my buddy what happened and he told me at once; They are working together and tricks love struck men and most likely lives on this business! And I Agreed... S-it! She was so beautiful in her tight jeans! Ass-legs-stomach was 9,9!! Face got her down to an overal 9.
Well, cant give up the hunting that easy. Took a cap to Moda bar and went down to check the meat market. Screening the dolls there I found a few to rest my eyes on. Just having ordered my second beer one sexy dressed girl walks straight into me. I dont think it was an accident however. 175 cm, very busty, and sweet and beautiful face and got very long hair! She was around 65 kg especially with that rack of hers! We talked, I ordered her a few drinks and we had a very nice party... we even began to tongue kiss! Close to 4 am we were going and I said I lived in Hotel Ukraina and asked her to join me. She said she wanted to but that she need $ 150 for the night. I told her I can afford $ 100 and that I wanted anal and oral with no condom... And she said ofcourse!
I was really horny and off to the hotel we went. After an argument with cab driver about the price (fists was in the air) we went through the security who wanted not less than $ 20 to let her in.
Up at the room we had to be very silent beacuse my friend was sleeping... And I got a hottie with DD cups to poke! I solves the problem with brining all towels on top of the bathroom floor and there we began the orgy! Het tits was amazing, thoug a bit droppy. Can they be anything else with a size atleast DD naturals?
She wouldnt allow me to eat her but she did a medium to good BJ uncovered to me.. Covered up and then I poked her hard! I do the girls quite hard often! When she began to moan I told her to be silent! When she rode me those tits nearly made me see sich with all their moving:) after 20 minutes in different positions it was time for A-N-A-L.... Which I love... She was very tight and asked me for Lube... Found my friends skin lotion vaseline and she prepared her ass for my rod! after less than 10 very nice minutes she began to complain about pain! I stopped and she got back to uncovered BJ... Giving her my load in her mouth she took it all... and after 30 sekonds she raises and spits it out in the zink.
Ahh.. Finally some good sex after a disappointing day. Afterwards I asked my friend if he noticed anything.. and he screamed H-LL yes! :)
I learned that you should be really carefull with these internet agancies and even with chat sites. Many girls are there to trick us for our hard earned cash! I even found a site with complaints about the girls fooling men.
I will definetely be back for hunting in Ukraine but I will avoid Kiev I think and go to another city. I will also try to realy more to pick up skills in discos and cafees.
Have fun!
Cheers,
Felix :)
Felix Nordic
05-22-05, 20:04
Well here is drop dead beautiful Victorya! She is a scam! Be careful!
Be extra careful when you see these studiophotos of models! Its a sign of caution! It is all too often that it is what it seems like; Too good to be true!
Still Im sure you can hunt down some real babes from these sites too!
Good luck hunting and keep up the good work!
Felix:)
Felix, it seems like you had just about every scam in the book run on you. I've had interpreters quote me 4/hr or 15 USD per meeting. $100 is a third of the monthly rate of a well paying job in Kiev. Personally I really don't see the point of having an interpreter - is she going to go on every date with you? Also, there is an old term in the US called 'dating for dinner', it seems to be quite popular in Kiev, although Fridays doesn't quite qualify for it. Friday's in the US is considered the next step above fast food. If you want to know what an expensive meal in Kiev is go across the street to Arena. You can always tell how interested a girl is in you and not your wallet by what she orders.
Always negotiate the price of the taxi BEFORE you get in. If you have a native with you let her do the talking for you and don't speak until the price is settled. If you are in a group of 3 or 4 have the native hail the taxi and negotiate while you and the others are standing far enough away to make it not obvious you are together. Generally I don't like to make it the highpoint of my day to negotiate the best price possible with every taxi. But a third of them will take advantage of you if you let your guard down. Also, taxis and private cars are like beautiful girls in Kiev - there is one going by every 5 seconds.
75% of the girls online are a waste of time. You are lucky the girl actually matched her photo's. If you want to go the pick and choose route try one of the local dating agencies in Kiev. A few of my friends have tried it and have generally been pleased.
But the best method is simply walking down the street and being friendly. And if you want to be serious about hunting in Kiev you have to ditch the hotel and get an apartment.
You did good to have all these scams run on you and not be taken advantage of.
Hello gentlemen!
First report by me from Kiev! I was there 5 days in mid april before the Eurovison hell began. Glad I missed it!
(stuff deleted)
Felix :)
Brits or Americans I would think.
During my 12 days in Kiev and being out and about just about 24/7 I only recall seeing three blimps, including those two. It's a crappy phone cam shot. But if you can blow the picture up you can see the bemused look on the face of the military officer walking by.
Here's something a little bit better. But once again a crappy phone cam shot - I was bored my last day in Kiev.
They are a couple of Western Europeans in town for Eurovision!
One O Nine
05-23-05, 22:00
I go to Moscow pretty often, but will be in Kiev for the first time next month. I've read through a bunch of pages but see only snippets of information here and there. Could somebody please post an overview of what's out there? What are decent alternatives to RP? Are Kiev strip clubs anything like the ones in Moscow, and are they a good option in terms of quality and possibility of scoring a chick? Any decent night clubs where one could score a freebie on a weekday? What's the situation like with taxis / transportation?
In short, I will be in Kiev for only four days, and I probably won't return for quite some time. So I want to party it up and see as much of the night life as possible and hopefully not have to go to any one place more than once.
I will arrive in Kiev tonight and I am going to meet “freebee”, Julia, for the second time. Last time I saw her on my last half day in Kiev a month ago. This time I will have enough time to bang her :-) (..I hope..)
I wanted to know if anyone has experience with this girl since she is on many websites?
Here are her pics. and they are real.
Waiting replies.
[Photo deleted by Admin]
EDITOR'S NOTE: The photo originally included with this report was deleted in accordance with the WSG Forum's Photo Guidelines prohibiting the posting of professionally produced photos. Please read the Forum's Photo Guidelines for further information.
Are you sure this girl was a freebie? Maybe you were dreaming? Maybe you should get some photos of her that you take yourself.
Also, there is no such thing as a freebie with a girl of this type. You will pay one way or another my friend, but enjoy anyway.
The Dnipro Hotel has a Strip Club/Casino in it. Take out is 300 Euro or 400 USD, the house sets the rate, there is no negotiation. They offer private lap dances but I don't know if that includes sex because I never took part. Which is actually something I've been meaning to do. I was there on an off night during the winter and the talent was on par with any high end US strip club I've been to. One of the girls was even sporting implants.
My must goto bars for the traveling sexpat - Arena (currently the reining king of Kiev nightclubs), Club 111, Moda Bar, Shooters - p4p is available in all four clubs in varying degrees. I'm sure others will fill you in on other hot places to go. If you want a run down on most of the clubs of note in Kiev to foreigners and their address pick up a copy of What's On or whatson-kiev.com. Taxi's and private cars for rent are all over the place in Kiev Center 24/7.
Picking up a freebie on a weekday at a club and bringing her back to a hotel while being new to Kiev with no intention of ever returning...well..well, for that you need Dr Skanks handbook, How to Pick Up Slavic girls made easy, or the companion booklet, How to Pick Up Slavic girls for Dummies.
Good luck and have fun.
I go to Moscow pretty often, but will be in Kiev for the first time next month. I've read through a bunch of pages but see only snippets of information here and there. Could somebody please post an overview of what's out there? What are decent alternatives to RP? Are Kiev strip clubs anything like the ones in Moscow, and are they a good option in terms of quality and possibility of scoring a chick? Any decent night clubs where one could score a freebie on a weekday? What's the situation like with taxis / transportation?
In short, I will be in Kiev for only four days, and I probably won't return for quite some time. So I want to party it up and see as much of the night life as possible and hopefully not have to go to any one place more than once.
i just returned from kiev last week, i flew from frankfurt with ukraine international, my wingman flew from munich with czech airl., had to do one stop in prague. getting through customs was fast, just make sure not to give them any wrong numbers when they ask how much cash you have with you, the guy it front of me had some problems because of this, although i´m not sure what exactly the critical amount was.
we rented the apartment through kievaccommodation.com, absolutely no problem, they picked us up at the airport on time, we got exactly the apartment we had made a reservation for, right in the center near kreschatyk street, greet location, 2 big bedrooms, water running all day, perfect. what was best: we didn`t have to pay the eurovision rip-off price we had agreed to when booking (160,- dollars), they only charged the normal price, 120,- dollars.
ahead of us was one week of party, way too much alcohol, so i won`t be able to give you the exact chronological order of the places we visited.
one place we visited on our first evening and three more times was club 111 (hotel lybid). no idea why they always have one or two rambo-guys in full combat-outfit with machine-guns in their lap sitting at the entrance, i wondered what kind of incidents in the past made them think this is necessary, didn`t see anything like this at any of the other places we visited. great place, one of my favourite, everybody in a good mood, slow on wednesday, i think thursday was ladies night, pretty full, friday was packed, what i really liked was the rotating bar. some nice girls, easy to make contact, although i didn`t see any girls i´d rate above 7.
one other place that could have become my favourite was chaikovsky, bessarabska pl. 2, there was some action on wednesday, first they wouldn`t let us in, the guy at the door said they`re celebrating the second birthday of the place, so you needed an invitation. some other guy took us around the corner and sold us two tickets at a special discount price, not sure what we payed, probably a scam, anyway we got in. a really cool club, great music (house), but the place was almost empty. actually the place was empty during the whole weekend, we always had a peek inside, even way after midnight , absolutely dead. one of the girls told me the reason for this is that the hip wannabe`s of kiev have already moved on to some other new locations, which have recently opened, maybe we just had bad luck, i don`t know.
we also visited the well known riverpalace i think at least five times during that week. not much i can ad that hasn`t already been said. lots of very cute girls, although even here i could never spot more than one or two girls i´d rate 8 or above on any night. i managed to pull out one very cute freebie, actually she dragged me out of the place by my hair without once mentioning the issue of payment and stayed at my apartment until four p.m. the next afternoon, very passionate girl. i had to reward her somehow, so i invited her to da vinci fish club in volodymyrska street that evening, great place to take your date if she likes italian classics or fresh seafood, pretty expensive for kiev though. on one other night the pricetag was 150 bucks for one cute student, she only stayed until nine, told me she had to go to university. hard to say what the average price actually is these days, it seems to depend on what girl you`re chasing, what time it is, how full the place is and whether she likes you or not. many of the girls seem to be there every evening, also i saw lots of guys being rejected, it seems many girls will go there regularly and only follow someone home when they feel good about the person. my wingman took home his dreamgirl one night paying 250,-, and even though it was pretty late, there was no way she was going to lower the price, it was take it or leave it.
i also checked into modabar on two evenings. again pretty empty, although i liked the place. on my first visit i had just managed to grab a seat at the bar, when i saw a cute tall blond with endless legs sitting on the other side. it just took one smile and she came over, introduced herself and the next moment she was almost sitting on my lap. she said she was hungry, so being in a good mood, i invited her to some sushi. when we left and i read the bill i realized she had already pulled way over 300 grivnas out of my pocket, drinks included.
she then took me to another place, maybe the coolest club i saw during my stay in kiev:
ganesha club in artema street. this place doesn`t open until 4 in the morning, and it`s only open during the weekends. very cool house music, only cool and trendy young people seem to gather here, i made eye contact with several girls, sort of regretted i wasn`t alone. problem that night was i had somehow totally lost control over the amount of alcohol good for me, so at some point i stumbled out of the place in trance and took the next taxi home, leaving my girl somewhere on the dancefloor, even forgot to get her number.
one other place that should be on your priority list if your looking for nines or tens: club "pa ti pa" in muzelny lane. we had planned to go to this place anyway, but ended visiting it by accident on a saturday night because our taxi-driver who was supposed to take us to opium somehow got confused. pretty large big-town style club, all the young and beautiful of kiev, house music at it`s best, confetti raining down on you, go-go girls, the only place in kiev where i really saw many, many, very beautiful girls in one spot. my wingman stayed at this place dancing all night, i left for riverpalace after about two hours, maybe i´m getting old, but the sound intensity was insane, this was like an acoustic tsunami, staying there any longer would have meant an appointment with my doctor. and it was absolutely impossible to talk to anyone, i tried to make contact several times, screaming my head off, no use with this sound level.
lets see, what else was there? i tried one of the numbers in the magazine "what`s on kiev" one afternoon, told them to send me the youngest, hottest blond available, didn`t really expect them to deliver anything worthwhile. she showed up in front of my door right on time, 20 years, law student, stunning blond, beautiful face, designer-clothes, very good english, what more can you ask? she was supposed to stay two hours for 100 dollars, but when i asked her how much time she has, she said she would stay as long as i wish, strange. anyway, i dismissed her after two hours and two shots, it was time for me to get some sleep and prepare for the missions ahead.
there were several other places we visited, but i can`t remember anything really worth mentioning. some general information:
taxi-drivers always try to overcharge you. as long as you are not out alone at night, just stick out your thumb and stop any car, this way we never payed more than 10 or 15 grivnas, although i have to admit, i stopped cars several times alone at night, never had a problem, but i`m not sure if this really is safe.
mobile-phones: i took my regular mobile-phone and one of my old mobile-phones with me. bought a prepaid-card for the old mobile, you can buy them just about anywhere. this way i could use the old phone with the prepaid card in kiev and at the same time i could accept business calls from home through my regular phone.
a very good though for kiev expensive supermarket can be found in the basement of the arena complex.
the arena-disco was in on the fifth floor, i think. on our first evening we managed to sneak in to the inside, open-air area of the arena-complex. normally you needed a eurovision-access-card, but my wingman just walked past the security guys in a self confident manner, i followed him boldly. there was an open-air party going on, all the drinks and food were free, not bad for the beginning of that evening. later we tried to get into the arena-disco, there was an eurovision party going on, and entrance was free for eurovision people. we told them we forgot our eurovision id`s at our hotel room, no use, free entrance only with eurovision id, or pay 100 grivnas each. at this point we were curious what was going on, so we payed 200 grivnas, pretty stupid actually, and we were way to early, the place was getting full very slowly. we decided we had no time for waiting how things will develop, so we moved on, didn`t come back later that evening even though we had a stamp. no idea what arena is like on a normal evening.
we had a great time in kiev, but i have to say what really disappointed my wingman and me was the action on kreschatyk in the afternoon: the street is closed for traffic during the weekend, there were probably thousands of people in the street, but you could walk through the crowds for hours without seeing a single really hot girl, maybe some girls i´d rate 6 or 7 at best. the weather was great, above 20 celsius, and after walking through the crowds all afternoon, we counted maybe 10 skirts , most girls wearing jeans, and looking simply average or below average and not well dressed. same situation on weekdays, afternoon and evening, no talent to be seen. being a regular visitor to riga (about 12 times during the last year) i can`t resist comparing the two cities, and even though kiev was o.k., i´d favor riga any day. the quantity of beauties you see in riga and the girl/guy ratio is insane, for me it`s been freebie heaven during the last year, even though it`s only a third the population of kiev.
nevertheless, i`ll probably check out kiev and maybe odessa one more time this summer, as long as you can hop over without the visa-hassle, until september 1.
Felix Nordic
05-24-05, 19:08
I dont know why I can't post photos? Something wrong every time.
Cruiser D:
Normally I always negotioate the price in advance. But lately in Moldova and Romania I havnt done so and they have not tried to cheat me. If you know a little about the town they realize they cant trick you. So I just got into this cab and she asked the price. And he noticed and tried a scam! But I just hate to get fooled! He didnt count on that!:)
About Fridays; Well, same policy as for Chicks. You really shouldnt pay western prices even for food when you go to such a poor country. Thats why Fridays is quite upscale by Ukraine standards since normal girls cant afford to go there. Its definetley quite pricy. Infact, central Kiev is quite costly if youre not smart. ´
Ive had genuine girlfriends in Romania and they usually tries to take me to a good restaurant thats not so expensive. That is if the girl loves you. Many girls do the money test to see how rich you are.
And thanks for the tips anyway;)
ISMAEL: Yeah, I ve spoken a few words this the girl in question. I just say; she probably is too good to be true. Its going to cost and will probably not get her into the sack! - Be careful!
And good luck! :)
Doctor_Skank
05-25-05, 09:36
axel s:
very good report. thanks!
"way too much alcohol" :)
that's one of my vices too... especially in ukraine. achieving the right amount makes me a sex demon. going overboard usually means sleeping alone or taking a pro option, with the alcohol-influenced average performance/interest from both parties as a consequense. the exception is when you are with a regular girlfriend or someone you picked up and she's equally drunk... that can turn into some awesome alcohol-fueled wild abandon.... time to get out the video camera....
"111:although i didn`t see any girls i´d rate above 7."
i prefer tuesdays there, excellent expat/dyev ratio. on other nights, especially the weekends, there are a lot of ukrainians there and many of the cuter girls you'll see there are regrettably occupied. my experience in kiev in general is limited, certainly there are people on this board who know much more... however i have felt that 111 is going a bit down in the last 9 months. maybe it is just my impression based on my luck on any individual night, but most probably 111 is suffering from increased competition from other clubs. 111 is by no means an elite club. if kiev follows moscow's lead... and it will... then any expat-oriented club may yield a good average in fuckable loose-moraled babe quality, however the top girls will be found elsewhere. the prospect of getting hit on relentlessly by hormone-doped expats may have greased many a model-quality twat 3 years ago, however with increasing local competition and increasing standard of living in kiev, many girls dont need to suffer that indignation anymore. shame really.
instead they'll find more elite or "in" clubs... whether they just want to be cool or whether they hope to meet rich local men there. as you experienced personally and already know, this is a fluid scene and changes relatively quickly. best way to find out where these are is to have local friends. being away for a couple of weeks or months will put you "out of the loop".
back to 111: one thing that has worked out well for me is taking normal girls there, especially if she is an inexperienced clubber or from out of town. they are impressed by the name of the club...its well-known, even in other cities... and they like the interior and crowd. good cocktails to get her in the mood too. i cant recall ever failing to score when bringing an own date.
i personally have never seen any pros at 111, although one rp pro i had banged the night before (the infamous "mystery tramp") did spot me there once with another non-pro girl and got really jealous and sent me evil smss.... so apparently pros do go there. anybody actually taken a pro from there? price/quality info?
"chaikovsky, bessarabska pl. 2"
nice bi-level layout at that club, but your informants are right... it was a hot place 2 years ago but isnt anymore. crowd got younger and more common, the hipsters moved on. its practical location does make it worth peeking into and recently got laid there with 2 girls.. even though the place was nearly empty.... about 40% full. maybe this worked in my favor on that particular night.
"river palace-i managed to pull out one very cute freebie, actually she dragged me out of the place by my hair without once mentioning the issue of payment and stayed at my apartment until four p.m."
nice score. i doubt that happens often there. there is a ladies night at rp, which does attract semi-pro dyevs. i think chances of scoring there on that night might be ok. i cant remember which day it is. anybody know?
from what i can tell (my experience + posts here) river palace is $150+. i've been thre 4 or 5 times and only taken a girl home once. i found them overpriced, most quoted $200+ and seemed determined to stick to that price.
"ganesha club in artema street."
nice tip. thanks.
"what`s on kiev" sounds like you got a great deal with your $100 blonde... how was her service? what were your general impressions of the pros there... bbbj, dfk or any extras?
"no idea what arena is like on a normal evening."
weekdays fairly dead, weekends good with mixed crowd of upscale ukrainians, some expats and quite a few starry-eyed student-type newcomers. i enjoyed this club.
"i´d favor riga any day. the quantity of beauties you see in riga and the girl/guy ratio is insane, for me it`s been freebie heaven during the last year, even though it`s only a third the population of kiev."
so i should book my flight to riga? :)
Goldfinger
05-25-05, 11:51
Kiev is still less discovered than Riga so you get a better chance with a girl in a bar or on the street. I got blown out a lot in Riga but Kiev was easy.
Once a guy from Riga I had met in Minsk has told me that he was amazed by the number of stunning girls he's seen around, so I think there's always a bester location far away..
It's way too optimistic to think that you're just gonna meet the top elite beauties of Kiev by just wandering around Kreschatik,especially at weekends and at the end of May..
Nowadays the real chicks are either engaged with exams or enjoying their vacations places like Crimea and other countries in the south..
I read about your recent adventures at Chaikovsky, very well done, with your skills you`d probably have a pretty good time in Riga and being capable of speaking some russian, that would give you the edge to score with those rare but existant hot russian non-english speaking babes venturing Riga`s old town.
My impression of the pros? Service of the $100 "What`s on" girl was average, great looking, very friendly, but no GFE, only CBJ, no DFK. I wouldn`t call any of the girls real pros, all of them seemed to be semi-pro students. I know, they always tell you they`re students, but dig a little deeper and you`ll be able to tell pretty fast if they`re just making it up. The Riverpalace girls were incredible, 100% GFE, BBBJ, DFK, very passionate. I don`t know where they teach these girls, or girls in EE countries in general, you`d think they take them to some kind of porn summer camp when they`re 15, the way they look at you while they`re at it, the technique, the sounds they make, especially when it comes to oral skills, i seldom had this kind of experience in the west.
Vega: Riga isn`t a "better location far away" to me, I have friends living and working there and I`ve been going there every month during the last year, still, the town never ceases to surprise me.
It wasn`t only the lack of "elite beauties" that disappointed me in Kiev, but considering this is a three million EE capitol, the action on Kreschatyk was pretty depressing. I strongly doubt this had anything to do with exams or vacations at this time of year.
I noticed the outdoor talent on Kreschatyk was lacking too the last weekend I was in Kiev (may 14-15). I remember remarking to an expat buddy as we sat at a cafe at the LG arch that this must be ugly or plain girl weekend in Kiev. I think the usual players were laying low for Eurovision - too many one off tourist wandering around and a lot of bumpkins from the countryside to make it worthwhile for the professional strutter. During the weekday evenings it seemed to be it usual self - once it stopped raining. The optimal time for finding talent is from 6-9pm during the weekdays.
I had an interesting time w/ RP this trip - one double, one game called because of rain and one home run -
1st time - Started the night off at a small private party at a friend’s place. He made the mistake of hooking up with a girl he'd bumped into a few times on the street. Her sister was invited over for me - she was ok, but wouldn't get a 2nd look from me on the street. My friend made the mistake of plying us all with drinks in order to get the party started (get the girls drunk and fuck them). Long story short - I hadn't been drunk in about 12 years - now I remember why it's been 12 years. The girl for me ended up leaving after doing a little slap and giggle and quoting me a price of USD 300 - I was drunk but there was still a few brain cells firing - all I did was laugh or pass out - I can't remember which. But as it turned out that was her excuse for leaving the apartment with two of my friend’s mobile phones and a digital recorder in a huff. In hindsight I think my friend was working with the girls in order to rob himself and that is why he got me drunk. ;) He ended up tapping his girl but then wanted to give her taxi money and send her on her way so we could go out trolling. She did her best Glenn Close impersonation after learning she was about to be put out with the trash. My friend had to actually escort her physically out of the apartment after she starting getting violent. On the way out her purse hit’s the floor opens and out pops my friend’s digital camera. All this while I’m semi comatose at the bottom of the landing waiting for the drama to end and pondering – sushi or River Palace. I know I won’t be able to handle solid food for about an hour so it’s off to River Palace we go. While leaving my buddy's new friend outside his apartment buildings door – My friend will be getting a call from the Karma Police later in the evening (err morning) – literally.
It’s late at the old RP but there is still some doable talent left I spent about 90 minutes having a few waters (dilution is the solution), eating and trying to make my eyes refocus. It’s getting late around 4am, the crowd is thinning and it’s time to go home. I settle on a girl and a back up – as I’m getting ready to make my move (Hello, how are you doing? Want to go home with me, how much? I’m just so smooth) Two guys move in on my #1 girl and my back up at the same time…argh. So I actually end up settling on the girl my buddy has been dancing with (he’s not into p4p, at least he thinks so – he hasn’t found out yet that sis stole his two phones and dig recorder). She’s okay – I’m buzzed and horny.. a little old 26-28 but she has a great attitude so I toss out $100 for 6 hours and she goes for it. Oh, did I mention that while we were at RP the police had called my friend? Seems somehow he had ended up with the girls mobile phone during the scuffle – steal a girl from Kiev’s mobile, I don’t know what my friend was thinking. It would have been safer to sell her little sister into white slavery. So the police, his gf for the night and some headaches are waiting for him at his place. Some condoms, some Coca-Cola, cheese and French chocolate are waiting for me at mine. The girl did indeed have a great attitude. I was still semi buzzed, I had been up and about all day, and the girl was okay looking but not hot enough to over come all these issues. So basically I spent about 2 hours straight mouth fucking her because whenever she wanted me to fuck her there would be a little deflation problem. The harder I mouth fucked her and the more I forced down her throat the more she enjoyed it – when she left she told me what a polite American I was and left her phone number and told me to call her - hence a girl with a great attitude. Overall based on my experiences at RP I would rate this as average. Oh my friend – he spent about an hour or so sorting everything out with the Karma Police, gave the girl a few hundred grivena and her phone to make her go away and then went to his apartment to find some of his stuff missing – D’oh. Oh – did I mention the helpful older guy at River Palace who offered me the sage advice, ‘just offer them money’.
2nd time at River Palace and obviously my first…anyone remember the old phrase, ‘couldn’t get laid in a ***** house with a fist full of 20’s?’ well…
I went to RP for a 2nd time this trip and got caught in the classic mistake of playing ‘well she’s hot, but she’s hot too, and hey I kinda like her, and what about that girl over there’. By the time I finally got around to seriously choosing someone to be my girlfriend for the evening they had all already choose someone else. So then I decided to compound the mistake by going home with choice #17 and what a choice she was…while heading back to my place we play a little slap and tickle in the cab. While still on the river road we get pulled over by the police, they chat briefly with the driver and it’s off we go. I go in to resume the prelims and I get ‘pay me first’. Now this is a first with me from a RP girl, this girl is obviously either a hard core pro or just got stiffed by someone and is still smarting from it. Either way it doesn’t bode for a good time. This girl wants the money up front and she just ain’t getting it from me until we get back to my place. We spend the rest of the 5 minute cab ride going back and forth and it’s so annoying by the time we get to my place I give the driver his money, get out of the cab, call the girl a stupid Ukrainian bimbo and slam the cab door in her face. It’s around 430 in the morning the sun is getting ready to make its appearance. I go up to my apartment to change, go for a jog and reflect – damn I can’t get laid in a *****house in Kiev, wtf I fume. I jog, smile and start to whistle, the new day in Kiev is just starting.
3rd time at the RP and boy it’s a charm…
I had just cleared the screen separating the disco from the entry hall and this tall slender blonde walks right in front of me, Damn she’s hot, considering my luck last time I should just pop the question and take her home now. As it turns out I could have save myself two hours of hanging out at the RP. Because as fate would have it she was indeed the girl I ended up going to home with that night, with a little bonus (about 5’4 100lbs and blonde too ;). But then again for me I enjoy the floorshow at the River Palace, the foods ok and it’s like being at a strip club. My attention wavers from Blonde #1 she sitting a few tables behind me and besides, Momma always said never buy the first thing you see – for the record momma never gave me advice on places like RP. ;) I zone out, listen to the music, watch the girls dance, try to mentally block out the dancing (if you want to call it that) guys. Suddenly a group of girls a few tables over decide to go en mass to the ladies room. I spot an 8 in the herd, perfect body, slender, very large firm breasts and nice long hair – not a blond tho..tsk..tsk. I slap her hand as she goes by and motion of her to come over when she’s done. She returns and we chat a little bit she is hot, but I hope she’s saving her RP money up for some braces or other dental work – nothing hideous, just typical EE. I don’t remember her story, it was pretty typical, but the punch line was USD 200 for one hour. I break one of my rules and go for the 200; my limit at RP is generally 150. But the pictures I’m going to take of the perfect body are going to be worth it. But for one hour…nfw…I tell her 200 is ok, but for 6 hours. She won’t budge so I dismiss her back to her table of friends. She spends the rest of the night looking at me and I spend the night ignoring her. She ends up going home with a local who popped in for a few seconds just before I went home with my two blondes (I didn’t realize there was a pick up window at the RP…;).
Ah, my two blondes, Oksana and Valerie. Oksana was the taller of the two had the better body (for my tastes) so I went up to her and chatted her up with the intention of just bringing her home. We went back to my table, chatted a bit, I popped the question and rate and she smiled and nodded. After waiting for her friend to come back (ladies room of course) she went back to their table behind me, they settle their tab without trying to pass it on me (promising I thought) and Oksana comes back and tells me her friend would like to join us for another $50. I was about to say no, I really wasn’t in the mood for a threesome, but her friend was cute and even if she just hangs out in the apartment and watches MTV it would be a cool vibe. The cab was a small crap mobile and had no room for the three of us in the back. I tried to angle for the back with one of the girls but Valerie pulls Oksana in the back with her and left me in the front. Oh no, this is not looking good at all. The gods were indeed not smiling on my whoring activities in Kiev this trip. Little did I know the gods were indeed smiling and about to send me on a trip reviling my other three some in Kiev during the winter. It’s been my experience with threesome that rarely do both girls work on you at the same time. Not only did both girls work on me at all times but they both did not stop once during the entire 3 hour time we were naked in bed playing. It was an awesome time and saved my RP experience from this trip from being bad or just average.
Boys, you just need to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away and know when to run.
Cya in October
I just returned from Kiev last week, I flew from Frankfurt with Ukraine International, my wingman flew from Munich with Czech Airl., had to do one stop in Prague. Getting through customs was fast, just make sure not to give them any wrong numbers when they ask how much cash you have with you, the guy it front of me had some problems because of this, although I´m not sure what exactly the critical amount was.
(great report, thanks for all the info)
My last trip to Kiev I bumped into a typical ugly American tourist at Fridays, this guy had loser written all over him right down to wearing cheapo wrap around sunglasses indoors during a typical Kiev sunless winter.
He was fuming to the bartender when he went to settle his tab that the beers were too expensive and asked for the manager. The manager came out and told him that the prices are clearly marked in the menu he had been giving.
Now Fridays is one of my favorite places to have lunch and muse on the days events when I not in the mood of playing point at my food over at Two Geese. So I decided to pipe up and told the guy, 'exactly how much to you expect to spend for beer at a TGIF's in the very center of the capital city of the Ukraine. If you want cheap beer go to a local pub on the other side of the river.'
TGIF isn't upscale, it's just American and tends to attract us like moths to a flame, that's why the prices are just slightly lower then they would be in the US where TGIF is considered an inexpensive choice. Regarding girls - whether in the US or Kiev girls are seldomn an inexpensive choice. ;)
I dont know why I can't post photos? Something wrong every time.
Cruiser D:
Normally I always negotioate the price in advance. But lately in Moldova and Romania I havnt done so and they have not tried to cheat me. If you know a little about the town they realize they cant trick you. So I just got into this cab and she asked the price. And he noticed and tried a scam! But I just hate to get fooled! He didnt count on that!:)
About Fridays; Well, same policy as for Chicks. You really shouldnt pay western prices even for food when you go to such a poor country. Thats why Fridays is quite upscale by Ukraine standards since normal girls cant afford to go there. Its definetley quite pricy. Infact, central Kiev is quite costly if youre not smart. ´
Ive had genuine girlfriends in Romania and they usually tries to take me to a good restaurant thats not so expensive. That is if the girl loves you. Many girls do the money test to see how rich you are.
And thanks for the tips anyway;)
ISMAEL: Yeah, I ve spoken a few words this the girl in question. I just say; she probably is too good to be true. Its going to cost and will probably not get her into the sack! - Be careful!
And good luck! :)
DOC,
Ladies night at River Palace is on a Tuesday and is packed with mostly pro but as it is free for girls to get in there are some semi-pro. I was last in Kiev at the end of February and while in 111, I was trying to chat a girl(body 8/face7) up in drunken English/Russian when her fluent-English speaking friend (madam?) said that i could take her home for $150 for the night. I replied that i only wanted to rent her not own her,as usual humour not understood,so how about $100 for all night? Now she laughs,so I say that she is welcome to think my offer over and get back to me. We spend the next hour looking over at each other and spelling our different amounts with hand signals while my intended dances behind me looking hornier with every beer i have. I went over and said last chance for $100 but she refused so I left thinking that I was not going to help increase the cost of shagging in Kiev and went to River Palace. After 2 hours more drinking I paid $100 for a gorgeous but very blurry girl. So there are definately working girls in 111.
Can't wait to get back in July,
Jack.
Doctor_Skank
05-25-05, 23:19
CD:
Enjoyed your report, fun to read about other guys experiences and successes... and discovering they make some of the same mistakes that I do... like not trusting your instincts or being indecisive in selection... that rarely ends up going well.
Whenever I am in Kiev I go to TGIF so often it is embarassing... just like you, I dont find that there is anything special about the place...but still go there. Its overpriced for what it is, the quality of the food is only average and all that garbage on the walls and those ridiculous uniforms those poor kids have to wear...
...but it is invariably 5 minutes from any apartment I am staying at so it is easy to meet a date there... and everybody knows where it is. I once made the mistake of agreeing to meet a girl at some restaurant I hadnt heard of and then found out it was near the last station on the metro line going north. And it was winter. Wasted an entire afternoon.
I usually agree to meet girls at TGIF and if I like them move to someplace more sensual... like a dark coffee shop or lounge.
A nice restaurant with excellent Ukrainian food, good atmosphere, a good rep with the ladies and a convenient (although not Kreshatik) location is O'Panas. Its been mentioned here before, but deserves rementioning. It's in the same price category as TGIF but leagues ahead culinarily.
Just Do It
05-26-05, 16:25
Hi Guys,
I am headed back to Kiev for my annual trip. I will be there June 29th till July 9th then on to Prague. I want to say thanks to all who post great info here and will return the favor.
Like last year I have a couple internet freebe's lined up to add a little spice and varity to the mix. You can look at my old post's from last year to see my method but I can assure you it does work!
If anyone is going to be there at the same time I would love to hook-up for a few beers and a little hunting! Drop me a PM or let me know here.
BTW my apartment is right by McDonalds on Independence Square so a good location. If there are any new hunting sites let me know. Also has anyone tried any of the girls from dosug.com.ua and if so do they speak English well enough that you can order them using the phone?
Thanks and good hunting!
JDI
Felix Nordic
05-27-05, 16:53
CD,
Its relative the economic situation.. Therefore TGI might be a cheap place in US but not in Kiev. You really have to take in consideration where in the world you are. Though there ofcourse are much more expensive ones its still way above average what a Kievan can afford. Hence; upscale.
Well, smarter from my own expereinces I will skip the internet dating with ukrainian girls which in general seems to be a large scam industry.
I'll probably going to hit Odessa in the summer and another nice city like Donetsk.
Would be great with a wingman! :)
Just my two cents,
Felix
Felix Nordic
05-27-05, 17:39
I just try to put a pic of beautiful but scam Victoryia. Best ass and legs Ive seen. But after free lunch and some extra money for here friend to split between them later.
Cheers and good luck with the hunting!
Felix :)
Picking the right date for the night is as we both know quite the skillful art, experience and observation play quite a role. 90% of the time I hit it right, but that other 10% well...;). I think the best advice I can give anyone on this subject is to know when to cut your losses and not be disappointed in going home alone. Sentiments you echoed in some of your other postings I believe.
I love Fridays for what it is, a great place to meet people. I tend to stay in an apartment on the corner of Shevchenko when I go to Kiev. During the week it's a 2 minute walk. During the weekend when the street is closed it's a 1 minute walk. I also like chatting up the wait staff, they are very friendly to me and I bump into quite a few of them on the street and they always say hello. But you are right, I can do without the clown outfits they wear. I generally don't eat there anymore, the attached Italian place is a much more viable choice if you want food. Seven Samurai across the street has become my new favorite lunch spot and the best sushi I've had in Kiev so far. I'm starting to like Jacob's Cafe in Mandarin Plaza as a early evening musing place and a good place to make a good impression on a non committal first meeting. Also, I think the wait staff (female) is the best dressed in Kiev.
I let one person pick the place we were going to meet when I was in Kiev once. It was the shortest date I've had in a long time. I don't think it lasted more then 20 minutes. I broke three rules and paid the price 1) she picked the place, 2) I met her for dinner, instead of just drinks w/ an option for dinner, 3) She didn't speak english well and had an interpreter with her - D'oh. FYI it was the Arabic place above the food court at Globus.
I've met about 30 girls at Fridays so far, the downside being I can't hit on the waitstaff anymore. I tried once on my last trip and got shot down faster then you can say American pig dog man...;)
I'll have to try O'Panas on my next trip. The only Ukrainian places I've been to so far is Two Geese, the Fat House and The Wall. The first two are good for what they are and I think the Wall is way past it's prime.
CD:
Enjoyed your report, fun to read about other guys experiences and successes... and discovering they make some of the same mistakes that I do... like not trusting your instincts or being indecisive in selection... that rarely ends up going well.
Whenever I am in Kiev I go to TGIF so often it is embarassing... just like you, I dont find that there is anything special about the place...but still go there. Its overpriced for what it is, the quality of the food is only average and all that garbage on the walls and those ridiculous uniforms those poor kids have to wear...
...but it is invariably 5 minutes from any apartment I am staying at so it is easy to meet a date there... and everybody knows where it is. I once made the mistake of agreeing to meet a girl at some restaurant I hadnt heard of and then found out it was near the last station on the metro line going north. And it was winter. Wasted an entire afternoon.
I usually agree to meet girls at TGIF and if I like them move to someplace more sensual... like a dark coffee shop or lounge.
A nice restaurant with excellent Ukrainian food, good atmosphere, a good rep with the ladies and a convenient (although not Kreshatik) location is O'Panas. Its been mentioned here before, but deserves rementioning. It's in the same price category as TGIF but leagues ahead culinarily.
I am in Kiev right now. This is my first trip to Ukraine, and I would like to share my experience with you guys.
First, let me describe myself:
1. I can only speak just a few words of Russian (yes, no, thank you, please, etc.).
2. I am a young looking mid 30s, above average attractive guy. I am fit and do fine with girls in my home, Vancouver, Canada. I typically date girls in mid to late 20s.
3. Girls back home consider my strong points are good sense of humor, easy going manner, sharp dress, etc.
4. I do hobbies occasionally, especially when I travel. Most of my experience are in Canada. I have visited Germany, Holland and Czech republic before, but not former Soviet Union countries.
My main focus here in Kiev was freebees. My goal was to get girls a notch above what I would get at home.
Having said that, this is how things went:
After arriving at Kiev, I went out and tried to find an internet cafe. I asked cute girls on the street where internet cafes are located. These girls are accepting my approach. And they are trying to help me. However, I found there weren't many English speaking girls here. They do speak a few words of English (like I don't know, or go straight 5 minutes, etc), but not at the level I can carry on the conversation.
I went to Arena disco first night, and it was a great place. I arrived shortly after midnight and the place was happening. There were many good looking girls with very short skirts, and guy/girl ration was definitely my favor (1.5/1 - 2/1). I spotted a cute girl at the bar and went to talk to her. I asked what she was drinking (in English), and she did not understand what I said. After a few attempt, she just turned around and ignored me. So I gave up.
I hit the dance floor and spotted another cute girl. I went straight in front of her and grabbed her hands started dance together. She did not refuse my approach. We danced tother for a short while, and I started to talk to her. But again, she did not understand English.
I also spotted another cute girl at the bar on the other side. So I went to talk to her, and the same story.
My feeling is that these girls are open to my approach and willing to talk to me. But it's not possible because of my lack of Russian/Ukrainian language skill. Furthermore, because of the language issue, I cannot use one of my strongest traits, my sense of humor. So, honestly, I could not see any possibility of getting a freebee here in Kiev. I have heard great stories of Dr. Skank or Roger Mellie. I would assume they are fluent in Russian. I do not know if my story is a typical one for no Russian speaker. If any of you have done better without Russian language skill, I would certainly appreciate the tip.
So the second night, I hit River Palace. I went there around 11:30 PM and stayed there until 1 AM. Most of girls there were 5 - 6 range, and they were asking $200 for 4 hours to $300 for 1 hour. I did not see any of semi-pro type. All of them appearted to be well seasoned. I finally settled with Sveta from Minsk for $150 until 4 AM. I must have been horney. She was less attractive than the girls I would ask out in Vancouver, but I thought the price was right. Overall, her performance was not very inspiring, and I would certainly not recommend her to anybody.
So far, my best pro experience has been at FKKs. I had sessions with girls who are 8 - 9. And it's only 50 Euro/session + entry fee and taxi. From pure economical point of view, Kiev has a lot less return on investment. Since freebee seems to be not a strong option, it does not make much sense for me to come back to Kiev in the future.
I will visit Odessa from here. I will continue my report.
You guys that have been through Borispol before and after the tourist visa situation, are there seperate queues for people with visas and just people coming in on the new non-visa tourist status? I still have second visit on a double-entry (im so juvenile that i still laugh at the Embassy in London when the staff ask me if i want single-entry or double entry) visa so it may be quicker. I have used a contact at the airport who meets me in arrivals lounge and takes me straight through for $30 but if it no longer takes an hour to clear customs i wont need him. Also when i was last in Kiev in November it was possible to get 10 grv to the £ and 5grv to the $, so it was better to bring £sterling instead of changing it to dollars in London. Has the situation changed?
Thanks in advance for your information,
Jack.
If a girl in Kiev ignores you while speaking, it doesn't neccessarily have to mean that she's just fluent in keeping up with the conversation.
Most important of all, the better looking a girl is the greater the chance that she can carry out a conversation in English..
Starchild2012
05-29-05, 18:22
I was in shanghai last month and i too faced the same problem of communication, and it was really a frustrating experience as being so close yet so far.
we know this one's in my reach, yet it pains to see it go, while searching the net i come across a mobile device which automatically translates the native language into english and vice-versa, just speak to the device and it would translates it into ukrainian or russian or whatever loud and clear :) and vice versa too.
Now no need to take week long classses or the word learning, just pop in the pill thats it :) and as for language barrier, this device would take care of it.
you could get info on the device at http://www.ectaco.com/?refid=2155
The first time i went i had no info on what to do in shanghai, i was lost and i was as horny as a bull, just paid extra for everything and thought it sucks man, i too thought i would never come back, but when the language barrier disappeared, i was as good as a local there, no problemo :)
hope this helps !!
good luck with your hunt !!
You still have to go through passport control whether or not you have a visa. There are three queues, or as us Americans like to say, lines - non resident, diplomatic and resident. The signs on the diplomatic booths are generally ignored.
The current exchange rates are 1USD = 5.039 UAH, 1 GBP = 9.18953 UAH and 1 GBP = 1.82378 USD. I don't understand what the difference is if you bring USD or GBP?
And hey, the good new is Aerosvit, one of the Ukrainian national Airlines is dumping 25mil into Borispol for a new terminal - it will be nice to have more then two gates.
You guys that have been through Borispol before and after the tourist visa situation, are there seperate queues for people with visas and just people coming in on the new non-visa tourist status? I still have second visit on a double-entry (im so juvenile that i still laugh at the Embassy in London when the staff ask me if i want single-entry or double entry) visa so it may be quicker. I have used a contact at the airport who meets me in arrivals lounge and takes me straight through for $30 but if it no longer takes an hour to clear customs i wont need him. Also when i was last in Kiev in November it was possible to get 10 grv to the £ and 5grv to the $, so it was better to bring £sterling instead of changing it to dollars in London. Has the situation changed?
Thanks in advance for your information,
Jack.
I want to clarify something Cruiser said. Everyone, visa or not, has to go through passport control and everyone, again with visa or not, must fill out that toilet paper immigration "card". Do not lose the part they give you or you can face some hassles from the border guards when you leave.
When you do come in, while there are signs that do say diplomatic, resident and non-residents, no one, but no one who comes here with any frequency actually goes to that particular corridor that applies to them. It is one mad rush to the front of ANY of the above three sections. It is a way of making you feel right at home in Ukraine where queues have their own way of operating.
As for currency, I am not sure why you want to bring Sterling. There are so few exchange points outside the very center that take Sterling. You are better off with dollars.
For up to the minute (or day) rates, go to this site and you can see what it is in a variety of currencies:
http://finance.ua/en/
Then click on currency converter. A very useful and handy item when you are still at home and counting the pennies you need for the trip.
And, Cruiser, there are some very major questions and problems with the new Aerosvit Terminal. They are under criminal investigation (who is not from the old regime!) for supposedly illegally privatizing the land they are building on. I am not yet sure if that has been resolved but until then, it may be a long time before we see a new and better terminal.
CRUISER D,
I am British and the banks rob us when we change sterling into dollars so I was just seeing if i got a better deal with the £ but i have done the maths and you are right there is not a lot of difference, thankyou.
As i said, I do have a contact who gets me through customs in 5 mins but it is a bit cloak and dagger as at the end you have to follow him and pay him $30 somewhere private which was a bit nerveracking the first time but is very efficient and I have done it 4 times now. I will ask them if I can give their telephone number to any interested WSG members.
Jack.
A construction project in the Ukraine is behind schedule and there is a criminal investigation...how odd. ;)
I wonder if the new goverment is actually interested in playing fair and square or if they are simply undoing the previous deals so they can get their own piece of the pie. Time will tell but I generally don't give politicians of any nation the benefit of a doubt.
Borispil needs to be upgraded, badly. If the new government is playing political football with it is a very bad sign of things to come.
http://www.airport-borispol.kiev.ua is the website for Borispil
http://www.aerosvit.ua/eng is the website for Aerosvit
From the Aerosvit website...
"AeroSvit Airlines has invested US$12 million in the construction of a new international terminal complex at Borispol Airport, stated Grigoriy Gurtovoy, Co-chairman of the Supervisory Board of CJSC AeroSvit. His comments were made in an interview published by the Ukrainian weekly newspaper The Economic News on February 3. According to the article, preparations for construction were already underway. The project is slated to begin by the end of March 2005. In addition to the US$6 million AeroSvit has invested, Gurtovoy said “An approximately equal amount was raised due to an additional issue of AeroSvit’s shares in December of the past year. The company is holding negotiations with Western European and Russian banks to finance the rest of the construction work, the total value of which shall be US$100 million.”
Gurtovoy said the general contractor for the project would be appointed by the end of March 2005. He noted that four candidates have been selected as a result of a tender organized by AeroSvit: TAV (Turkey), ALPINE (Austria), KESZ (Hungary) and SHUMA (Turkey). “The first position in this list is occupied by the building firm TAV, with whom we are now negotiating. If the parties fail to agree, negotiations will be held with other candidates in turn.” According to the AeroSvit’s administration, the main part of the construction will be performed by Ukrainian companies under subcontracts with the general contractor.
The new international terminal, terminal “D,” will go into operation by the end of 2006. The total area of the complex, which includes a passenger gallery and a parking area in addition to the terminal, will be over 60,000 square meters. The capacity of the new terminal will reach 2,000 passengers per hour or 3.5 million passengers per year.
The Government of Japan has expressed its readiness to finance the construction of another terminal at Borispol, dubbed terminal “E.” According to The Economic News, work on this project will begin in 2007 and will be completed in 2010. The article also stated that the construction of terminal “E” would begin only after the Official Delegations Hall is relocated. Plans are to reconstruct the entire airfield infrastructure using Japanese credit. This includes new platforms and parking for aircraft.
The construction of terminals “D” and “E” will be coordinated in terms of priority and commissioning time of the facilities. The Economic News also informed its readers that a common master plan developed by Borispol Airport’s administration team unites both projects. "
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And, Cruiser, there are some very major questions and problems with the new Aerosvit Terminal. They are under criminal investigation (who is not from the old regime!) for supposedly illegally privatizing the land they are building on. I am not yet sure if that has been resolved but until then, it may be a long time before we see a new and better terminal.
I generally bring around 2k USD for umm, 'friends' when I come to Kiev and when I need local money I just max out my ATM daily charge limit. I even found an ATM machine in Metrograd that will spit out USD. But there really is no point to that; the local currency seems solid for now.
I haven't been to Borispil a lot of times (that is going to change) but I've never had a problem clearing passport control and customs in a reasonable amount of time. The only problem I had was when I left a couple of weeks ago it took forever and a day to check through the BA desk. During my arrival the airport was very busy, including the dreaded planeload of Libyans...no problems.
Sorry everyone for my flurry of postings. I'm going through Kiev withdrawal and it's part of my therapy.
Has anyone flown Aerosvits non stop service from NYC, how is it? I’m betting the FA’s are hot and the service is terrible. ;)
CRUISER D,
I am British and the banks rob us when we change sterling into dollars so I was just seeing if i got a better deal with the £ but i have done the maths and you are right there is not a lot of difference, thankyou.
As i said, I do have a contact who gets me through customs in 5 mins but it is a bit cloak and dagger as at the end you have to follow him and pay him $30 somewhere private which was a bit nerveracking the first time but is very efficient and I have done it 4 times now. I will ask them if I can give their telephone number to any interested WSG members.
Jack.
DoctorOral
06-03-05, 18:33
I need to be in Kiev every month, starting in July 2005. So far, I have no idea about apartments, clubs, restaurants and the fun involved!
I am not really looking for straight sex, but for sensual massages with "special services" offered in bath houses, shower clubs e.g.. I have seen bathhouses advertising for 2girl-1guy-bathes with "total relaxation", which sounded just fine to me.
Any suggestions and contacts? [Email Address deleted by Admin]
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Wanderer1000
06-03-05, 23:07
Wally -
Try rakuena.kiev.ua. I've never used them, but I plan on trying them this summer.
DoctorOral
06-04-05, 17:48
Thank you Jack for the info. I did check out their www-page which sounds great. when you get through to the girls and the interior, things might looke different (horrible!). Any comments and reports on rakuena.kiev.ua?
I'll be happy about more to cum...pm or post. Thank you!
I have been to Palace Hotel. The lobby bar is full of sunning beauties, I have no clue about their going-rates, though.
Been there in Kiev late May with my buddy. We had booked 2 luxurious apartments very close to each other on Shevchenka Bld near Bessarabska square with http://www.uaapartments.com . Well we had none of them although the manager Dimitri confirmed the apartments 2 weeks earlier :(
Instead I had an equivalent apartment near Bessarabska square but my buddy got an awful apartment on Lesi Ukrainia, 15 mn from me and with a rough slope before to get in. The apartment was renewed but without telephone, without conditioned air, the windows to the south, very hard to live and sleep when it’s 30°C outside and mosquitos and flies inside. Dimitri just agreed to lower a little bit the price : $64 instead of $69. After 2 nights (he paid only 3 nights so he could search another place), my buddy changed to an apartment from Serguey Kulik (http://www.apartments.com.ua ), better located, cooler and cheaper ($60). I don’t say that Dimitri is dishonest, but I know that if I come back to Kiev, it would be with another apartment renter. If what you book is not what you get, it’s a big problem for most of us, apparently not for Dimitri.
We went twice to River Palace. Good looking girls, most of them ranging from 6 to 8, didn’t see a 9 but didn’t search everywhere. It was packed but there was a 1:1 guy/girl ratio. First time, my buddy choosed a tall good looking brunett for 150 euros. In my case, at 3am there was nobody left that I would have paid 150 euros for a sex session until 6 or 7am. The only one that I liked was Marina, about 166 cm, blonde with low-cut and beautiful breasts. She said she was a 23 y.o student and spoke reasonnable good english. Her face reminded me of Milena, the nightmare of Roger Mellie (see photo gallery, dec.03 2004). Of course I didn’t have her photo when I met her but this was enough for me to come back alone. It was my first night in Kiev, I was tired and not really in adventurous mind. Now that I watch again Milena’s photo, I am not sure that Marina is Milena. RM, why she was a nightmare ? Did she dance with a naughty smile ? How tall was Milena ? Did she have beautiful breast (B/C cup) ?
Second time to River Palace : we couldn’t find a good looking girl who would go for less than 200 euros. Also we were not desperate to get laid : my buddy was a little sick. In my case, I had drunk too much vodka and already had a 2 hours sex session in the afternoon with an escort girl :) The two times in River Palace I recognized the blondie pro (see photos from Doctor Skank on dec.12 2004) but didn’t talked to her.
Actually during my trip, I only booked escort girls from Gia (http://www.gia.com.ua ) and Kiev Beauties (http://www.kievbeauties.kiev.ua , thanks to Uke Boy). For a 2 hours meeting in my apartment, it was $110 with Gia and $100 with Kiev Beauties. For me it’s a better deal than to pay $180-$250 in River Palace for a sex session between 3am and 6am, and at night I prefer to sleep. Stars From Heaven / Desired Stars (http://www.desiredstars.com ) was too expensive (minimum 4 hours / 200 euros) and they didn’t have stunning girls that would justify the price in Kiev.
I booked Zhanna, Nastia from Gia, and Diana, Katya, Tanya from Kiev Beauties. Limited services (no DFK, no BBBJ, not even fingering), but good meetings with Zhanna, Katya and Tanya. Kiev Beauties is not much known in this forum. I would recommend them, it’s an escort agency for foreigners, their girls speak english and are semi-pro (often students who don’t do escorting every day) and they have been serious and reliable with me :)
My buddy also tried to call the numbers for intim services in Kyiv Post. He wanted to go to a brothel and choose his girl among 4 girls but it’s not a brothel. They only wanted to send 2 girls in taxi to make his choice. They were supposed to be english speaking top-models for $150 / 2 hours. We didn’t like that and called another phone. 2nd call : same situation. 3rd call : the operator got pissed, it’s the same operator for nearly all the ads !
We went to Millenium strip club in hotel Dnipro, entrance 100 grivnas ($19), reasonable prices for drinks. Really good looking girls, 7-9 in looks, nearly 200cm tall with their high heels, very good show (but I am not specialist). We were approached by 2 girls who quickly asked us if we lived in the hotel (guess for what !) and if we would offer them some drinks. They were not the best looking ones and we politely declined. We observed the situation : girls talking to customers, private dance 300 grivnas ($59). Two times we saw a stripper got dressed in normal clothes coming back to a customer and leaving the club with him. I guess it was expensive but we were not proposed that. The girls already knew that we were not in the hotel and not ready to spend extra bucks.
I have also been to Bagira Massage (http://bagira.net.ua ), so-so english speaking manager. I could choose among 3 masseuses (erotic massage 1h / 250 grivnas / $49) and Bagira herself (600 grivnas / $118). I didn’t really like Bagira so I didn’t even ask what she would do for that price. I choosed Lena. We came to a small massage room (less than 7 square meters) with mirrors, relaxing music, shower, clean towel and bed. Shower together, good oiled tonic massage, and body-body with breast and ass. No penetration, I was allowed to touch her breast and buttocks, hand and breast relief. Good performance from Lena, I gave her a little tip.
Wallyally : you may come to Bagira, it’s not in the center but 2 metro stations away from Palats Sportu (near Bessarabska). First time : better go with a taxi and mobile phone, not easy to find if you don’t speak russian. It’s opened in the afternoon if you call them before. Rakuena opens at 10 pm. There is also Anahata (http://www.anahata.kiev.ua ) the massage salon from Gia.
Organicgrowth
06-05-05, 17:13
Jackmiov, CRUISER D,
I'm in prep for a Kiev trip this summer thanks both for great information. Just to continue your GBP / USD thread go to ex.com for exchanges... I now use this a lot and get a true "non-tourist" rate of exchange. Not purely at banks-best rate, but still better than any travel shop, airport tourist scam rate etc.
Best wishes, Havanaman
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