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Member #4491
08-19-13, 20:45
LJ,

I'm saying this with respect as you're a senior member around here. USGrant is not Alex. I know Alex too. I hired him a few years ago in to take me around Kiev, and last year to arrange a week-long bachelor party for a friend of mine. You have some good points regarding guides, but if a less experienced traveler wanted to hire one for Kiev or somewhere else in Ukraine Alex really would be the way to go.

JCrichtonEureka! I better book this Alex right away. Must book Alex. Must book Alex. Must book Alex. Must book Alex. Must book Alex.

John & co, we get it. Alex is the best guide. Anyone coming here can see that now. So let us not keep going on about him like a bunch of old and senile mongers. Point proven and now you can let go of this super guide of yours. If you do not agree, I suggest you start a thread named "The best guides in Kiev (that can not provide females)" and post his name there once a week. In that thread, you could also state what makes him so special. Apparently he lifts a visit to Kiev to new levels, and clearly he is someone most of us need, even if we did not realized it yet. Life in Kiev is one long party with Alex on the payroll. Everything works. And he does week-long bachelor parties for mystery friends. The only way for hopeless guys like me to really understand the power of Alex, is to have him fully covered in a thread of his own. The added value of Alex should be thoroughly documented, but not in the general Kiev thread. Let us get some real life examples with facts, dates and other hard data into that thread. In the end this is what counts, right?

B

LilJoey
08-20-13, 05:04
LJ,

I'm saying this with respect as you're a senior member around here. USGrant is not Alex. I know Alex too. I hired him a few years ago in to take me around Kiev, and last year to arrange a week-long bachelor party for a friend of mine. You have some good points regarding guides, but if a less experienced traveler wanted to hire one for Kiev or somewhere else in Ukraine Alex really would be the way to go.

From your writings though, I am going to try out Buddha Bar next time I'm in Kiev.

JCrichtonDear JohnCrichton,

I appreciate the "respect" and the gentle tone of your writing. But, for all I know you could simply be another profile created by Alex himself to promote his own services. You have very few posts on this forum, which suggests a profile recently created for the purpose of writing what you just wrote to promote Alex the guide.

It would be different if a member who has hundreds of detailed action reports going back years in other mongering destinations, reported about a guide he used in Kiev. There would be a little more credibility. But, I'm sorry to say that I remain unconvinced by your post. Neither you, nor USGrant have posted the kind of details in an action report that could validate you as real mongers. The mere generalized lauding, continuously and frequently, of the Alex the guide, over and over, is plainly advertising and promotion.

I would like to see you, and USGrant and Alex, post actual action reports which contain details, and contain actual helpful information to other mongers. This is what's missing from your posts, and the lack thereof betrays you as a mere advertisement.

I don't speak Russian, and I have read this forum and learned the basic information needed to find girls in Kiev for p4p, adding a little of my own ingenuity and skills to further my goals. I have had a terrific time doing it. I reiterate that my position is that no one needs a guide to get p4p girls and escorts in Kiev, as this is something that anyone can do on their own. It would really be wasteful in my opinion to spend money on a guide to do things that are easily doable for yourself.

That being said, I am aware that there are people who do love to waste money on expenditures that make things easier for them, which they consider value, and not wasteful, because it relieved them from exertions to do it themselves. I suppose there would be a market for a machine which would bring escorts on a conveyor belt and automatically place them on your dick, and all you had to do is come to Kiev and just lay there. Or a restaurant in which all you had to do is park your carcass in a chair there and open your mouth, and a machine would do the rest and stuff everything you like down your throat for you. But most people enjoy the doing of things for themselves.

What can I say? To each his own. So I agree that if there are people who like to pay for a guide, even if they are aware that they could do it themselves, then that's fine. The key is that they were made AWARE of the fact of how easy it is to do it themselves, and how many others are doing it themselves. As long as they are aware of that, and still choose to use a guide, then it's their "informed" choice.

But as to the question of whether Alex is actually qualified, I would want to see more details and helpful information in reports emanating from someone praising Alex, so that the veteran mongers can evaluate the information and insight coming from the guide, and see whether it is valid and helpful. Until then all we know is that he can take your money, but not really whether he can produce!

Member #4491
08-20-13, 11:08
Fuck Mamba for blocking me all the time, with not specified reason. Like an old grumpy poodle that bites you arbitrarily. I unblocked the profile twice before but now I can not send a message to them.

DoctorOral
08-20-13, 13:41
I'm new here and will read your posts. I plan to arrive in September. When the crowds go home and the ladies get beck to school.Sorry to say, I quit going home. I just stay. And sorry again, I will leave none virgin ones for you!

If you feel like doing what I did before, welcome to Kiev. Haha!

YellowPaul
08-20-13, 13:50
Loquito. And everybody else on the forum. I know of a truly excellent guide for Kiev. His name is Alex, he's Ukrainian with an excellent command of English. He's very professional, knows the city extremely well, and will take good care of you. I say this in all seriousness, I met him a few years ago during my first time in Kiev and the trip was 1000x better because of it.

He knows the P4P scene and can help you out. Please PM me and I will happily pass his email address over to you.I contacted him once. We wanted to $200US a day plus gas money.

Too rich for my blood but I got nothing against guys that can afford it.

Climaxnow
08-20-13, 15:17
I contacted him once. We wanted to $200US a day plus gas money.

Too rich for my blood but I got nothing against guys that can afford it.Kiev is just not the city to hire guides. Nightlife is concentrated in the center, just about all walkable and dominated by foreigners.

Be careful of any personal services in Kiev. Dating, education, and tour guides are all prone to scam.

Sponsor74
08-20-13, 18:40
Fuck Mamba for blocking me all the time, with not specified reason. Like an old grumpy poodle that bites you arbitrarily. I unblocked the profile twice before but now I can not send a message to them.I have the same problem and still wonder / asking the experts for other options. Much better if free of charge as it was Mamba in previous time

Iceberg27
08-20-13, 19:32
I have the same problem and still wonder / asking the experts for other options. Much better if free of charge as it was Mamba in previous timeJust send an e-mail to administrator with your apologies and tell them you didn't aware of the rules that you didn't obey. Wait for a few days. That s all you have to do. They will remove the block for you if you can be convictive.

Member #4491
08-20-13, 22:51
Just send an e-mail to administrator with your apologies and tell them you didn't aware of the rules that you didn't obey. Wait for a few days. That s all you have to do. They will remove the block for you if you can be convictive.This worked twice in the past, but have you encountered the new "IP ban" they implemented? How do you message Mamba admin if you can not even log in? I emailed what I thought was their address and it did not bounce, but still no reaction.

B

DocHolidays
08-21-13, 07:55
This worked twice in the past, but have you encountered the new "IP ban" they implemented? How do you message Mamba admin if you can not even log in? I emailed what I thought was their address and it did not bounce, but still no reaction.

BI was banned also with the "IP ban" few weeks ago. I was just about to call my ISP and have my IP address reset when I could log in again. Mamba send a message in system to say it was a mistake that I was banned. They also gave me some "currency" as apology. So, give it another day or so to see if it reset. If not, call your ISP to have your ip address reset (or use a free wifi to login to complain).

Good luck Barba, learn a lot from your posts.

CastOnThis
08-21-13, 18:18
Ok, prices for strip clubs and this is pretty accurate.

Penthouse, Rio is 350 dollars for three hours.

Dolls, Arena, SG is 300 dollars for two hours.

Paradise, millennium are 500 dollars for three hours.

Sponsor74
08-21-13, 19:59
Just send an e-mail to administrator with your apologies and tell them you didn't aware of the rules that you didn't obey. Wait for a few days. That s all you have to do. They will remove the block for you if you can be convictive.Thanks for answer but my query is if there is another messenger system nowadays better than Mamba. In my opinion Mamba is the only one and therefore all these new problems for some users

Member #4491
08-21-13, 22:10
Thanks Doc. IP ban was lifted but they messaged me telling that they will not lift the block. Guess Barba needs to surf through Tor and make a new profile then.

B

LilJoey
08-22-13, 05:27
Ok, prices for strip clubs and this is pretty accurate.

Penthouse, Rio is 350 dollars for three hours.

Dolls, Arena, SG is 300 dollars for two hours.

Paradise, millennium are 500 dollars for three hours.I arrived in Kiev yesterday, but was preoccupied with bonking mamba girls, and didn't have the time to stop in to Rio. To clarify your report which you say is "pretty accurate", are you reporting here on this thread that Rio raised the price of the three hour take out date from the longstanding price of $300 USD, which has been the price for several years, to a new price of $350/3hrs?

If you are reporting accurately, then that's a piece of news.

Today met with Elenaatmamba $100 / hr in the afternoon. Exhausted from travel, I went to sleep after the truly gorgeous Elena left at 6pm. And Valeria from hot-modals for three hours at 600 UAH per from 3:00 am-6:00am. Must catch a few hours sleep before mamba girl arrives by train from a town three hours away for a sleepover.

I will try to check out Rio price if I can get there Friday or Saturday nights to see what's happening to prices.

LJ

LilJoey
08-22-13, 05:52
By the way, the girl I saw last night from top-modals. Com for three hours at 600 UAH / hr ($75) , she was listed as Valeria,"real photos", wearing a black mesh body suit in the photos and looked like she had a really good body: the girl who answered spoke impeccable English and claimed she was Valeria, the girl in the photos.

Not. It was not a true picture. The girl who showed up had very poor English skills. But she had quite pretty eyes and face with a nice body. So I kept her for three hours (the time necessary to break in the various pieces of furniture in the new apartment I rented by seeing which couch or bed I liked fucking her on the most___ LOL.) I had a great time with her.

Barba. When are you planning to go to North Cyprus per TheKnight's recommendations? It would be an honor to share some adventures with you if our dates coincide.

Kirch. Looking forward to meeting you in Kiev. My FKK Germany foray is September 22-25. It will be great to hear your insights on the FKK clubs in the Dusseldorf-Cologne region, as my familiarity is more with Frankfurt area FKK's Oase and Palace.

LJ

DoctorOral
08-22-13, 16:07
I kow what you mean.


By the way, the girl I saw last night from top-modals. Com for three hours at 600 UAH / hr ($75) , she was listed as Valeria,"real photos", wearing a black mesh body suit in the photos and looked like she had a really good body: the girl who answered spoke impeccable English and claimed she was Valeria, the girl in the photos.

Not. It was not a true picture. The girl who showed up had very poor English skills. But she had quite pretty eyes and face with a nice body. So I kept her for three hours (the time necessary to break in the various pieces of furniture in the new apartment I rented by seeing which couch or bed I liked fucking her on the most___ LOL.) I had a great time with her.

Barba. When are you planning to go to North Cyprus per TheKnight's recommendations? It would be an honor to share some adventures with you if our dates coincide.

Kirch. Looking forward to meeting you in Kiev. My FKK Germany foray is September 22-25. It will be great to hear your insights on the FKK clubs in the Dusseldorf-Cologne region, as my familiarity is more with Frankfurt area FKK's Oase and Palace.

LJ

Member #4491
08-22-13, 21:09
Clearly I should not write of top-modals quite yet, considering your report LJ. I just sent you a PM.

Another buddy of mine here, once sent me a top-modals link to a girl that must have had the biggest loveliest natural tits I ever have been even remotely close to juggle. She was gone when I landed in Kiev the next time, but at least she was real and had a reasonable entertainment fee (600 gremlins if I recall correct).

Barba

LilJoey
08-23-13, 00:18
Ok, prices for strip clubs and this is pretty accurate.

Penthouse, Rio is 350 dollars for three hours.

Dolls, Arena, SG is 300 dollars for two hours.

Paradise, millennium are 500 dollars for three hours.I haven't had a chance to go into Rio yet this visit, but I am in touch with another member, Kirch, who texted me from Rio that take out price for 3 hours was still $300 USD (230 Euro). So your report isn't accurate as to Rio's price. Rio has had the lowest strip club price for "take out" for years, and it is still apparently the case.

As a result of this inaccuracy in your report, it calls into question how carefully you recorded the prices at the other venues you reported on. I know you were trying to be helpful. But sometimes one's notes can be confusing. So the advice to the Kiev thread is to regard these numbers as likely accurate, but to rely on them only provisionally. Since there may be some errors, you still must check things out for accuracy personally, if any of you attend any of these clubs.

LJ

JohnTodd
08-23-13, 02:22
Is there a current list of appartments in Kiev?

Thanks

Member #4274
08-23-13, 06:21
According to the website, Kiev is now number 2 in Ukraine for sex tourism, falling behind Kharkov.

http://kiev.vgorode.ua/news/187664/?003

Harry Hirsch
08-23-13, 09:09
Some men's ask me with PM about the girl 22.

She doesn't work yet. She do it only if she need extra money.

Next month I meet with her for few days and ask her again.

You hear from me.

About Odessa, I don't know special things and I never take out girls from disco.

Harry Hirsch
08-23-13, 09:10
Some men's ask me with PM about the girl 22.

She doesn't work yet. She do it only if she need extra money.

Next month I meet with her for few days and ask her again.

You hear from me.

About Odessa, I don't know special things and I never take out girls from disco.

OwaRunner
08-23-13, 09:52
Hi,

I am still waiting for my premium account, any idea how long I takes? The PM system is nice since I will be back in Kiev in October.

BR

OwaRunner

DoctorOral
08-23-13, 14:47
Funny how you get so excited every time you write. And funny you still believ in santa claus. He does not excist. Nor do teen girls who jump in bed with you for love, and "only meet you" in Ukraine. Dream on, master, dream on!


Some men's ask me with PM about the girl 22.

She doesn't work yet. She do it only if she need extra money.

Next month I meet with her for few days and ask her again.

You hear from me.

About Odessa, I don't know spezial things and I never take out girls from disco.

YellowPaul
08-23-13, 18:32
http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671246291&hit=3

Anybody got any recent reviews on her?

She's hot but seems to have a lot of attitude too.

Mithrandir166
08-23-13, 19:48
Went to Kiev last month for six days.

I will not recommend Kiev if you are looking for fast sex tourism. Except Mamba, which requires time & work, there is not much decent and cheap option.

But city is nice and cheap. If you have time, freebies certainly possible especially in student clubs.

Climaxnow
08-23-13, 21:09
Went to Kiev last month for six days.

I will not recommend Kiev if you are looking for fast sex tourism. Except Mamba, which requires time & work, there is not much decent and cheap option.

But city is nice and cheap. If you have time, freebies certainly possible especially in student clubs.I think your post is correct, but yet misleading. Kiev is certainly a sex tourism destination, but unlike FKK's or Thailand, it's just not in your face. I think it's unique to Europe because it gives access to some really personal service by fresh college age girls. You don't want to travel there to fuck just regular prostitutes. You have to get dates arranged before you fly into town, especially if you are there for only six days.

As you mentioned, it takes time and work and various other factors. I find one of the biggest obstacles is "qualifying" for a girl. Which can usually be over come by a word of mouth reference from another friend that knows her. I don't use Mamba anymore, only VK. It's easy for me determine who's for sale by profile (generally fancy pictures, luxury goods, and exotic locations). Be very careful with messages on VK as to not make a direct connotation to prostitution. Girl's spend a lot of time creating profiles and do not want administrators closing them down.

If Kiev is cheap, I must be living in the wrong part of town.

Member #4491
08-23-13, 23:18
CanadianBoy,

I am doing my best. Kharkov is great fun but harder work than Kiev IMHO. At least if you do not master Russian.

LJ, your inbox is full.

B

LilJoey
08-24-13, 00:31
I kow what you mean.Dr. O, you give me way too much credit, looking at the photo. I'm only into large pieces of furniture like couches, sofa's and dining room tables. The guy in the photo apparently was into fucking even with small appliances. Besides, I always clean up after. Remember, there's another girl coming. LOL.

LJ

Harry Hirsch
08-24-13, 10:33
http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671246291&hit=3

Anybody got any recent reviews on her?

She's hot but seems to have a lot of attitude too.If you make her a offer with money, this is very quick way for closing your account.

READ what she write and for what she looking.

Take a look about the page, there she search travel partners.

Forget her.

She is not aviable for money.

Harry Hirsch
08-24-13, 10:43
Funny how you get so excited every time you write. And funny you still believ in santa claus. He does not excist. Nor do teen girls who jump in bed with you for love, and "only meet you" in Ukraine. Dream on, master, dream on!Not for love, of course, she have credit about 400€ from me) Sometimes she need my help and I send her money. For this 400 she must "work" some nights with me.

Natali, this is more pro than semiPro."She" is not a good girl, but OK.

You can believe me, I know about her, had control her 7 month.

Climaxnow
08-25-13, 00:56
http://gawker.com/5909410/ukrainin-men-how-american-men-are-using-the-russian-facebook-to-find-brides

I thought this was interesting because it shows the importance of VK to make connections out East, be it brides or prostitutes.

Climaxnow
08-25-13, 01:16
http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=671246291&hit=3

Anybody got any recent reviews on her?

She's hot but seems to have a lot of attitude too.Http://vk.com/id12565784 Same girl?

Kirch
08-25-13, 18:30
I have been so many times here and have no idea when I started and how many times I had a 3 hr business meeting and extended the stay to 5 days in order to see what's going on at Rio, mamba, top-modals, Dali Park, D-Lux, Avalon, Sky Bar, Buddha Bar, Hotmassage, Dolly Massage, etc etc.

Mamba is not working anymore for me. I've tried so many times to upload a photo and 5 min later I get an Admin message that the photo is not ok with the rules. They just want me to change to Premium status. Obviously this is since VK took over mamba. I think so.

Top-modals and all the other pages was not working one single time! It's summer time I know but at around 02:00 pm no one answered the phone and later when someone picked up the phone they didin't speak English. I've tried 5 different Agency numbers from Top Modals & Co and after one hour appeared only not really nice girls. I didn't even give taxi money because I guess that this a way to earn money as well. They send the ugly ones to the apartements and they now the men will refuse and send them home. But receiving everytime about 100 Griwnas. It's a good business. LOL.

Dali Park is the newest Disco (used to be Dante) and all the beautiful girls from Deluxe & Co go there now. But again summer time and not so crowded like I'm used to. But still lots of beauties. I talked to 3 of the nicest ones but they didn't speak English. So they just say no. One really hot offered me 300 USD hr. She was hot but you never know if the service is hot as well. Buddha Bar and the rest I didn't go this time due to limited time.

I was using always Dolly salon for massage when I had a hangover. They speak good English and send within 20 minutes 2 nice girls for about 700 to 900 Griwna (for 2 girls) for one hour massage with happy end. But this time I tried first Allure Massage. 2 nice girls came but the massage was really bad and they didin't now how to finish. So it tried hotmassage and my God they send 2 really nice girls! I guess one of them here name was Nastya. She was a 9 in regards to her face. Body was a 6-7. But she did just a great job. I was looking what she is doing as I thought she gives me a blow. But no, she was doing it with the hands! Great. And the other one as well. The massage was absolutely profesional!

I had some Dinners with friends and I tried some new (for me) restaurants. Very good for me, and know this Restaurant for years, is Gastro Rock in Podol. More like student restaurant and bar with live music and really cool crowd. If you want to go out with a girl to a nice restaurant which is not to expensice and you like Italian you should go to Piccolino. Really good food

And now I come to my most favorit topic! Rio! Yes. I don't care what people say here but for me this is the best place to go! And no I don't get discount from Rio to write this here. Ask LilJoey, I've met him for the first time at Rio. Of course you pay EUR 230 for 3 hours. But I won't say here something I'm not allowed to. Just try and you will see how long. Sometimes. Whatever. In my last 3 trips to Kiev I always choosed a girl that was from Russia. But I didn't know this! I have that all the time. I'm more into Russian girls than into Ukrain girls. Russian girls have more style and passion or whatever. Anyways I met some really nice girls at Rio and went out with them. 40% of them speak English, another argument why I choose them because I want to talk as well!

So, tonight the last night and then back to Germany. And next time I get a Visa and try (after a long time) Russia again! Just one word about German FKK clubs. In the last 1-2 years it was getting worse and worse. The good CIS girls are all gone. Noone can tell me where they are? I was told they are in China but who knows. In Germany 60% Rumanian and Moldavian girls. Compared with Russian or other CIS girls they do a really bad service.

Cheers

Stevk1
08-25-13, 19:42
I this is my last trip in Kiev for a while I thought I would share some Mamba girls, Please treat them with respect these are nice girls.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1147093596&hit=3 She is 23yrs, No anal, but BBBJ with cim. $150 2hrs.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1076175995&hit=3 23yrs, No anal BBBJ 600 UAH per hr. She is also on top-modal better to contact on Mamba,

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1117729099&hit=3 Not her photo but nice girl very willing all in condom $100 1hr.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1126506976&hit=3 Very strange girl, lives in the clouds a little I think. Very spiritual and vegan, She does everything covered including Anal. $100, 1hr + $50 Anal $250 night.

I may post more later.

Have fun and be nice,

Steve

OwaRunner
08-25-13, 22:44
Hi,

I need some help with VK. I can not differ the working girls from normal girls. Any hints?

BR,

OwaRunner

FiddyCent
08-25-13, 22:46
I this is my last trip in Kiev for a while I thought I would share some Mamba girls, Please treat them with respect these are nice girls.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1147093596&hit=3

She is 23yrs, No anal, but BBBJ with cim. $150 2hrs.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1076175995&hit=3

23yrs, No anal BBBJ 600 UAH per hr. She is also on top-modal better to contact on Mamba,

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1117729099&hit=3

Not her photo but nice girl very willing all in condom $100 1hr.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1126506976&hit=3

Very strange girl, lives in the clouds a little I think. Very spiritual and vegan, She does everything covered including Anal. $100, 1hr + $50 Anal $250 night.

I may post more later.

Have fun and be nice,

SteveI met Innochka. You are right about her! She is delicate and if you treat her nice, she returns the favor. If the other girls are like her, I will certainly look them up the next time I return to Kiev. Keep the posts coming.

FiddyCent

JohnCrichton
08-25-13, 23:07
Dear JohnCrichton,

I appreciate the "respect" and the gentle tone of your writing. But, for all I know you could simply be another profile created by Alex himself to promote his own services. You have very few posts on this forum, which suggests a profile recently created for the purpose of writing what you just wrote to promote Alex the guide.

It would be different if a member who has hundreds of detailed action reports going back years in other mongering destinations, reported about a guide he used in Kiev. There would be a little more credibility. But, I'm sorry to say that I remain unconvinced by your post. Neither you, nor USGrant have posted the kind of details in an action report that could validate you as real mongers. The mere generalized lauding, continuously and frequently, of the Alex the guide, over and over, is plainly advertising and promotion.

I would like to see you, and USGrant and Alex, post actual action reports which contain details, and contain actual helpful information to other mongers. This is what's missing from your posts, and the lack thereof betrays you as a mere advertisement...Dear LJ,

Thank you for not blasting me too much. You are right of course, in an anonymous forum like this I (and USGrant) could be Alex for all you know.

I am a monger (perhaps part-time monger) that did a lot of lurking on forums like this one a few years ago. I had a membership to World Sex Archives for a while, and have mongered in Costa Rica (Fisherman's Lodge yay!) , Czech Republic, Istanbul, and of course Kiev. My last mongering (before the bachelor party a year ago) was in Romania in Oct 2011, where I was able to hire a really nice girl off of a website.

I'm not sure if you'd be interested in my first experience in Kiev. It was November 2006 and Royal Palace was still around. Ironically, I found out about Alex when doing research for the trip on a forum very much like this one (WSA).

I'll write up a field report on the bachelor party a year ago. Some of that information may still be current. Ironically, most nights we wound up at Rio. We really liked the girls and the sushi was pretty good. We hit Penthouse one night as well, but only briefly. I'm surprised to hear that other strip clubs in Kiev are rated so much better than Rio. Again, I'll have to check them out.

I do appreciate the need for more details for credibility.

Kind Regards,

JCrichton

LilJoey
08-26-13, 12:15
The best mamba experience I had was with a girl whose pics turned out to be true. I normally search for girls between tge agrs of 18 to 26, who list that they are seeking men up to age 45 or 50, which I believe indicates they are interested in a sponsorship type relationship, in which sexual favors will occur, along with the financial help or assistance. However, this girl turned out to be a bit older than most girls I pick out, maybe 29 like she says, maybe a few more years as we all like to snip off a few years on our profiles. But she is very into dance and exercise and is in excellent condition, with a tight and very nicely curved body. It is a pleasure to behold the visuals she presents to the lucky man who is with her at the various stages of sex. She is not a typical Ukrainian girl, in that she speaks English fluently, and has travelled broadly all over the world, including the USA. This is not a girl one can impress just by inviting her to visit in NY, Miami or Vegas. She's been there, done that. Although she might enjoy repeating such adventures with a guy she really likes. She is divorced, no kids, and travelled extensively with her former husband, who is a Western European, not a Ukrainian. She needed money urgently for her rent and for medical bills as she is having economic problems. What's new! All the people in Kiev are having economic problems. The difference is some of the women are using their pussy to help themselves survive. And this girl had a very good job with a salary that is triple the norm in Kiev. How she got such a salary, I wonder. But her expenses are high too, since she has her own apartment downtown and maintains a high level lifestyle. This girl is not for guys looking for an inexpensive roll in the hay. Buy I liked her very much. We clicked. So I decided to invest in some very good sex with a nice looking girl who has a fantastic, but petite body. It cost me a pretty penny, a lot of pretty pennies in fact, but I am not having any regret, since the first time I had her, I put in an all-star performance, which I believe I got my money's worth, such that I was sure she would have one of two reactions. Either she would dig the sexathon I played out with her for about two hours all over my apartment on the various pieces of furniture, or she would be scared to come back and think that there were easier ways to earn a few dollars. Regardless of that risk, I determined to give her "what fer", since my initial investment in her was a little steep. In the end, she came back for more.

There was also Valeria at top-modals. Com. I called for her rather late at night, and she showed up at 3:00 AM. I kept her till 6:00 AM. She was only charging 600 UAH / hr. She tried to bring up the notion of $200 if I wanted DATY, but that was quickly dispensed with, upon threat of my rethinking keeping her at all. By the way, I got the notion that it was an agency that answers the phone when you call "Valeria (real photo)", since the girl who answered the phone spoke great English, and the girl who came did not. And also that you will not always get the same girl when you ask for Valeria, but rather whoever is available at the time you call. I called only one number at top-modals. Com, and it was answered immediately, and a quite doable girl showed up. My call was made at 2:30 AM in the morning. Maybe Kirch's experience if not getting any answers when he called was due to his calls being made midday, such that many of these girls had not even gotten up from their beauty sleep yet, after their adventures the night before. It's a possible explanation. I don't have enough "research" activity devoted to top-modals to render an informed opinion. But I didn't think I could call any of my mamba contacts at 2:30 AM.

The other highlights of my Kiev visit were the two Rio girls I took out, Thursday night, the sexy blond Elena, and Saturday night, the scrumptious brunette, Katya, whom I had seen many times in the past, and was very happy to see at Rio again. Katya has such a cute face and sexy body.

I have always been nuts about Katya, even in the beginning days when she wouldn't let me go down on her. How pathetic is a guy when he is really hooked on a girl. But now, her pussy was open to me for DATY, and it was great to pleasure the pussy of this uber-sexy princess. Those of you who like DATY, per se, will understand me. In the year since I had last dated Katya, she seems to have learned a few tricks. She now has deep throat BJ down to a tea. You almost don't mind the fact that it must be a covered BJ, as she is still very concerned about the health risks. But she took me inside her throat down to the hilt, and mouth fucked me. It was a pretty amazing feeling. Then I got her up on top of me for some cow-girl, and moved her into one of my favorite variations where I pushed her back until she was leaning back on her two arms (and you bring the girls feet up from the "kneeling on knee" position she may be in from cowgirl, to having her feet on the bed so she is freer to move her pelvis). From this position, I grab her knees / legs and push her away and then into me vigorously, causing a satisfyingly forceful penetration, which I could see she was also satisfied with. This is one of the few positions where the girl gets a view of the penetration, which may be a sexy turn-on for her.

Then after generating some nice moaning from her for a while, I changed her up into my favorite lazy man's doggie position, which is effortless for me to maintain for a long while. Basically I remain on my back while she is between my legs facing away from me on her hands and knees in classic doggie position, with her right leg to the right of my right side, and her left leg between my legs, and her left foot hooked under my left leg. In this scissirs-type position, I can get a very nice, deep and forceful penetration, by simply rocking her forward and back on her knees causing wonderful long strokes of my penis almost all the way out of, and then deeply inside of her pussy, my balls slapping against her pubic area, as she is scissored between my legs. Some girls may have a tendency to initiate an up and down motion of her hips, but I prefer the forward and back motion of fucking, since she doesn't get tired out, as it's almost effortless for both you and her. And occasionally you can also initiate a furious pace of fucking on her also if you want, because your hips are free to move also. But enough of the technique. I write because it may be useful for other guys who need positions they can continue for a long time without tiring. The key point is the amazing visuals I got to enjoy of the incredibly sexy ass of Katya bouncing on my cock, as the penetrations produced some sexy moaning as she became more and more aroused. I also enjoyed the side view of the sexy profile of her ass, the rise of her shoulders, her beautiful breasts as they hung from her chest, her gorgeous hair concealing her face partially as she fucked me. It was truly a beautiful sight. And then came the rest of the furniture. LOL.

That night I met up with Kirch at Rio. He also hooked up with a girl he had seen before. So there we were, two "happy-campers", each anticipating the forthcoming festivities with our respective choices for the evening.

Kirch, great to meet you. Love your enthusiasm. Looking forward to doing Goldentime Bruggen with you when I'm in Germany September 22-25.

LJ

Starchild2012
08-26-13, 15:17
I have been so many times here and have no idea when I started and how many times I had a 3 hr business meeting and extended the stay to 5 days in order to see what's going on at Rio, mamba, top-modals, Dali Park, D-Lux, Avalon, Sky Bar, Buddha Bar, Hotmassage, Dolly Massage, etc etc.

Mamba is not working anymore for me. I've tried so many times to upload a photo and 5 min later I get an Admin message that the photo is not ok with the rules. They just want me to change to Premium status. Obviously this is since VK took over mamba. I think so.

Top-modals and all the other pages was not working one single time! It's summer time I know but at around 02:00 pm no one answered the phone and later when someone picked up the phone they didin't speak English. I've tried 5 different Agency numbers from Top Modals & Co and after one hour appeared only not really nice girls. I didn't even give taxi money because I guess that this a way to earn money as well. They send the ugly ones to the apartements and they now the men will refuse and send them home. But receiving everytime about 100 Griwnas. It's a good business. LOL.Thanks for the info.

Ronaldinjo
08-26-13, 15:32
I have been so many times here and have no idea when I started and how many times I had a 3 hr business meeting and extended the stay to 5 days in order to see what's going on at Rio, mamba, top-modals, Dali Park, D-Lux, Avalon, Sky Bar, Buddha Bar, Hotmassage, Dolly Massage, etc etc.

Mamba is not working anymore for me. I've tried so many times to upload a photo and 5 min later I get an Admin message that the photo is not ok with the rules. They just want me to change to Premium status. Obviously this is since VK took over mamba. I think so.

Top-modals and all the other pages was not working one single time! It's summer time I know but at around 02:00 pm no one answered the phone and later when someone picked up the phone they didin't speak English. I've tried 5 different Agency numbers from Top Modals & Co and after one hour appeared only not really nice girls. I didn't even give taxi money because I guess that this a way to earn money as well. They send the ugly ones to the apartements and they now the men will refuse and send them home. But receiving everytime about 100 Griwnas. It's a good business. LOL..I agree that Rio and Mandarin are the best places. Have you been in Mandarin? How did you like there? Russian girls? Ukrainian ones are considered more sexy and beautiful. I spoke to some Russian ones in Rio, maybe you choose them because of their English skills. There is one called Elen, do you know her?

Sponsor74
08-26-13, 19:47
I have been so many times here and have no idea when I started and how many times I had a 3 hr business meeting and extended the stay to 5 days in order to see what's going on at Rio, mamba, top-modals, Dali Park, D-Lux, Avalon, Sky Bar, Buddha Bar, Hotmassage, Dolly Massage, etc etc.

Mamba is not working anymore for me. I've tried so many times to upload a photo and 5 min later I get an Admin message that the photo is not ok with the rules. They just want me to change to Premium status. Obviously this is since VK took over mamba. I think so.

Top-modals and all the other pages was not working one single time! It's summer time I know but at around 02:00 pm no one answered the phone and later when someone picked up the phone they didin't speak English. I've tried 5 different Agency numbers from Top Modals & Co and after one hour appeared only not really nice girls. I didn't even give taxi money because I guess that this a way to earn money as well. They send the ugly ones to the apartements and they now the men will refuse and send them home. But receiving everytime about 100 Griwnas. It's a good business. LOL.

Dali Park is the newest Disco (used to be Dante) and all the beautiful girls from Deluxe & Co go there now. But again summer time and not so crowded like I'm used to. But still lots of beauties. I talked to 3 of the nicest ones but they didn't speak English. So they just say no. One really hot offered me 300 USD hr. She was hot but you never know if the service is hot as well. Buddha Bar and the rest I didn't go this time due to limited time.

I was using always Dolly salon for massage when I had a hangover. They speak good English and send within 20 minutes 2 nice girls for about 700 to 900 Griwna (for 2 girls) for one hour massage with happy end. But this time I tried first Allure Massage. 2 nice girls came but the massage was really bad and they didin't now how to finish. So it tried hotmassage and my God they send 2 really nice girls! I guess one of them here name was Nastya. She was a 9 in regards to her face. Body was a 6-7. But she did just a great job. I was looking what she is doing as I thought she gives me a blow. But no, she was doing it with the hands! Great. And the other one as well. The massage was absolutely profesional!

I had some Dinners with friends and I tried some new (for me) restaurants. Very good for me, and know this Restaurant for years, is Gastro Rock in Podol. More like student restaurant and bar with live music and really cool crowd. If you want to go out with a girl to a nice restaurant which is not to expensice and you like Italian you should go to Piccolino. Really good food

And now I come to my most favorit topic! Rio! Yes. I don't care what people say here but for me this is the best place to go! And no I don't get discount from Rio to write this here. Ask LilJoey, I've met him for the first time at Rio. Of course you pay EUR 230 for 3 hours. But I won't say here something I'm not allowed to. Just try and you will see how long. Sometimes. Whatever. In my last 3 trips to Kiev I always choosed a girl that was from Russia. But I didn't know this! I have that all the time. I'm more into Russian girls than into Ukrain girls. Russian girls have more style and passion or whatever. Anyways I met some really nice girls at Rio and went out with them. 40% of them speak English, another argument why I choose them because I want to talk as well!

So, tonight the last night and then back to Germany. And next time I get a Visa and try (after a long time) Russia again! Just one word about German FKK clubs. In the last 1-2 years it was getting worse and worse. The good CIS girls are all gone. Noone can tell me where they are? I was told they are in China but who knows. In Germany 60% Rumanian and Moldavian girls. Compared with Russian or other CIS girls they do a really bad service.

CheersThis is something new for me. Could you please provide more details?

Member #4274
08-27-13, 04:04
CanadianBoy,

I am doing my best. Kharkov is great fun but harder work than Kiev IMHO. At least if you do not master Russian.

LJ, your inbox is full.

BI believe you. You're one of the few posters whose opinions I treat as gospel. I'm moving to Kiev in October to live and work for a year, maybe more. I will go on my first trip in Ukraine soon after arriving. Looking at taking the train from Kiev to Sumy to Poltava to Kharkov and then flying back to Kiev. I'm curious how I'll do in Kharkov. Surely it can't be more difficult than Minsk.

By the way, have you ever hit Lugansk?

Climaxnow
08-27-13, 20:39
I believe you. You're one of the few posters whose opinions I treat as gospel. I'm moving to Kiev in October to live and work for a year, maybe more. I will go on my first trip in Ukraine soon after arriving. Looking at taking the train from Kiev to Sumy to Poltava to Kharkov and then flying back to Kiev. I'm curious how I'll do in Kharkov. Surely it can't be more difficult than Minsk.

By the way, have you ever hit Lugansk?How you plan get around residency limits?

Kirch
08-28-13, 11:08
As I wrote I was only told that VK took over Mamba. But who knows. Anyone else knoes for sure?


This is something new for me. Could you please provide more details?

Menidi
08-28-13, 12:39
1. http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=760017504&hit=3

She asked for UAH800 for couple of hours.

2. http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1152808492&hit=3

She asked for UAH600 for an hour or so.

3. http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1135670434&hit=3

She asked for UAH800 for an hour.

There were many more, but their profiles were shut down.

DoctorOral
08-29-13, 06:45
She asked for UAH800 for couple of hours.

She is a FAKE, my friend.

2.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1152808492&hit=3

She asked for UAH600 for an hour or so.

Probably REAL.

3.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=1135670434&hit=3

She asked for UAH800 for an hour.

FAKE for sure.


1.

http://www.mamba.ru/anketa.phtml?oid=760017504&hit=3

There were many more, but their profiles were shut down.

Starchild2012
08-29-13, 16:15
Ok. I just read the past 100 pages in Kiev and all general info page, being in ISG for a long time, felt like a duty to read past posts before venturing to a new place and asking newbie questions.

One word. WOW. I just want to give a shout out to LilJoey. Dude. You are a super human being. You have crossed the level of patience and have repeatedly given information to newbies while not getting irritated like most members would do. How do you do it man. I have visited most forums in ISG and your posts even though with less count has THE MOST INFORMATION anywhere online for Ukraine for mongers and even for normal touristy stuff you go way beyond help. You just lay it out like a magician. You have blown me away with your information and with your patience. Hats off. Guys like you makes life easier for other human beings. THANK YOU.

Senior member all over the forum get jaded and have not much to write about after a while in detail. Its understandable but you have crossed even that threshold and keep on writing great info for newbies.

The nature of mongering seems to be very dynamic and I found old information to be a bit outdated while comparing it with new info but not in essence overall. So to all newbies who are lazy to read. Just read all past post from LilJoey and you would be 99% uptodate on whats happened in ukraine and whats going to happen when you arrive. Its that precise.

-

Due to visa issues for me. I just couldn't jump into Kiev, I'm making plans now like forever and hopefully soon my dreams will be realized.

I found after reading so many post. Compare to South East Asia. For mongers. Ukraine, Russia, EE seems to be a tough environment for that soft touch and love. Its more business like with less emotions compared to the post one reads in Thailand thread. Where its more personal and emotions involved. Even though I read very very less scams compared to Thailand where one gets pushed and ends up dead in the end.

I'm not comparing this with how many women you can have and costs.

It seems Ukraine is less devilish than Thailand for one way ticket western men, haven't read a single post where a english speaking western guy ends up dead in the end after F*ing a girl and his wallet missing or 10 Ukrainian guys ganging up to beat the shit out of lonely mongers[ That turkish guys video seems fake] Haven't read any horrible insane conditions that some of mongers end up in Thailand. Plus the ladyboys issues.

If this is how bad it would get in Ukraine. Racism included plus face control. I would never ever step foot in SEA. The bad stuff members write here is nothing compared to what could happen to you in SEA on a bad day. Racism. Ha. Its a breeze compared to non-racist stuff in SEA and then ending up dead or getting beaten by group of 10 thai's with a bottle of beer smashed on your head for nothing or worse road accidents, visa issues, taxi scams, padded bills, sick buffalo scams, police scams, pregnancy scams that newbies will experience in SEA. Thailand is a tourist trap with all its glory compared to Ukraine from the posts I read. I think western men go to Thailand just for the exotic experience and yellow fever thingy but if you are looking for honesty and less scams and just sex without the exotic factor. Ukraine is way higher than Thailand.

I feel even though SEA may be far easier to get laid with more options and sheer number of women due to population. Ukraine seems more honest with less scams.

How did I miss this. I should have brought my a* to Ukraine than go to Thailand, Philippines. Even though I love to monger and easy life with low cost. I still value humanity, honesty more than anything else even with a bit high cost ....Ukraine would outdo SEA anyday on that it seems. God. You guys have no idea. How much traps are laid in SEA just to get your hard earned dollar.

I just want to put my perspective from the post I have read so far and my experience in SEA for any newbie or senior member on the fence having hard time choosing his next vacation. For me I'm never going back to SEA untill I exhaust all my options in EE.

Thank you again LilJoey for all your great post. You have made my life easier.

Cucumber
08-29-13, 19:39
I am an experienced Russia hand, but never been to Ukraine. I would really like to find a few nice salons in Kiev. By salon I mean an apartment or something bigger with as many working girls as possible (I. E. A brothel) , at least 3-4 girls, but the sky is the limit. I have read the thread and see there is very little discussion of this, mostly non-Russian speakers paying fortunes in strip clubs and the like, spending weeks on Mamba or Vkontakte etc. I don't have much time, and I am not interested in massage salons. I want to go straight to proper sex. Salons are such a standard arrangement in Russia and other countries that I believe it must exist in Ukraine too. I like very skinny, very short girls (my ideal is probably something like 19 years old. 46 kg. 158 cm). I speak Russian and can navigate my way if I just have a phone number and approximate address. I will report back.

Menidi
08-30-13, 09:51
I am an experienced Russia hand, but never been to Ukraine. I would really like to find a few nice salons in Kiev. By salon I mean an apartment or something bigger with as many working girls as possible (I. E. A brothel) , at least 3-4 girls, but the sky is the limit. I have read the thread and see there is very little discussion of this, mostly non-Russian speakers paying fortunes in strip clubs and the like, spending weeks on Mamba or Vkontakte etc. I don't have much time, and I am not interested in massage salons. I want to go straight to proper sex. Salons are such a standard arrangement in Russia and other countries that I believe it must exist in Ukraine too. I like very skinny, very short girls (my ideal is probably something like 19 years old. 46 kg. 158 cm). I speak Russian and can navigate my way if I just have a phone number and approximate address. I will report back.There are plenty of brothels in Kiev. The average number of girls are about 3 to 4. You can find them on the escort sites mentioned on this forum. Before visiting the place, you can call them and ask what type of girls they have in for the day. It is always cheaper visiting than asking them to come to your place. The ones I visited are all located around Khrishatik.

Since you speak Russian, it should be very easy to find your way in Kiev.

YummyPL
08-30-13, 16:57
After almost a month, I am finally posting the report of my second trip to Moscow.

Sponsor74
08-30-13, 20:59
There are plenty of brothels in Kiev. The average number of girls are about 3 to 4. You can find them on the escort sites mentioned on this forum. Before visiting the place, you can call them and ask what type of girls they have in for the day. It is always cheaper visiting than asking them to come to your place. The ones I visited are all located around Khrishatik.

Since you speak Russian, it should be very easy to find your way in Kiev.Yes agree with visiting these brothels is cheaper than bring the girl to your apartment. In previous trips I visited some BUT nextbtrip they were not any longer there (they change constantly their places) furthermore for non speaker Russian like me not easy to contact them and a taxi driver is always a risk for extra prices. My last trip was 1 month ago and visied a brothel in the back side of Friday restaurant. Do you have updated information for my next trip next month? I mean telephone numbers or street and number and apartment number to contact them? Thanks in advance

NewBeak
09-01-13, 18:14
There are plenty of brothels in Kiev. The average number of girls are about 3 to 4. You can find them on the escort sites mentioned on this forum. Before visiting the place, you can call them and ask what type of girls they have in for the day. It is always cheaper visiting than asking them to come to your place. The ones I visited are all located around Khrishatik.

Since you speak Russian, it should be very easy to find your way in Kiev.What are the standard prices in these Salons? And are they generally safe? Also can you give us newbies a rough idea, on how to tackle them.

Thank in advance

Harry Hirsch
09-01-13, 19:26
What are the standard prices in these Salons? And are they generally safe? Also can you give us newbies a rough idea, on how to tackle them. Thank in advanceWhen you want go to brothel.

THEN.

Make a trip to Germany / Frankfurt Main.

Take Hotel close to Trainstation, there are much brothels. You get sex for 25-30€. All is there possible!

But go to Kiev because of brothel, this is crazy.

To go to Kiev at first time, this is hard work. Kiev is not Pattaya. No easy, cheap sex.

LilJoey
09-02-13, 08:58
When you want go to brothel.

THEN.

Make a trip to Germany / Frankfurt Main.

Take Hotel close to Trainstation, there are much brothels. You get sex for 25-30€. All is there possible!

But go to Kiev because of brothel, this is crazy.

To go to Kiev at first time, this is hard work. Kiev is not Pattaya. No easy, cheap SEX.Of course, Harry is right. The reason to go to Kiev is not to go to a girl apartment / brothel. That is only one minor option, of the many possibilities available in Kiev. It was only a suggestion by someone who is not familiar with the Kiev scene.

LJ

LilJoey
09-02-13, 09:08
North Cyprus Adventure. Day 1.

Leaving Kiev is always hard. But this time I was going from Kiev to North Cyprus, which was also supposed to be full of EE hotties in the gentlemen's "nightclubs", in quality as good as one could get in Kiev, at a price as low as one could get in Kiev. At least this was the working premise that I had proposed to myself for testing on this trip. And this of course softened the sense of loss when a great adventure comes to an end. Because this adventure was really not even half over. And from what I had heard and read so far about North Cyprus, the adventure had every potential of getting even better!

Stopover at FKK Goldentime Vienna:

On Sunday, August 25, while en route from Kiev to Larnaca airport in south Cyprus, I had a stopover at Vienna from 8:30 AM until 8:30 PM, a long 12 hour all day stop. This longer stopover in Vienna was chosen deliberately so as to allow a nice long visit at one of the FKK's I have been enjoying from time to time.

See the details of my visit to FKK Goldentime Vienna at:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?621-Vienna&p=1465349&viewfull=1#post1465349

See the details of my visit to the nightclubs of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) on the Cyprus thread at:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?641-Other-Areas&p=1465350&viewfull=1#post1465350

Conclusions:

Prices:

At the time of my visit to the TRNC, $1. 00 USD was equal to 2 Turkish Lira (TRY).

There were two areas in the TRNC that I was able to investigate on this trip:

(1) the Lapta Strip, a strip of clubs located within a kilometer or two of Club Guzelyali in the Lapta area near Kyrenia / Girne on the main road known as Guzelyali Cd in that area, and

(2) the Lefkosa Strip, a strip of clubs about 10 kilometers just to the West of the roundabout for the intersection of the Girne-Lefkosa (north-south road) highway with the Lefkosa-Guzelyurt highway (an east-west road) near the entrance to Lefkosa / Nicosia.

With regard to the prevalent 1 hour session prices being quoted in TRNC clubs, the clubs in the Lapta Strip tended to the rate of 150 TRY, and for some of the girls they are asking 200 TRY, whereas, in the clubs in the Lefkosa Strip, some clubs are asking 250 TRY, and sometimes 200 TRY.

For the sake of understanding the comparison, these prices are equivalent, in Dollars or Hryvna, to;

150 TRY = $75 USD = 600 UAH.

200 TRY=$100 USD=800 UAH.

250 TRY=$125 USD=1000 UAH.

As you can see, such prices are equivalent to normal Kiev prices one might be quoted in mamba. Ru or other escort websites like top-modals. Com, and others.

So the prices for 1 hour sessions are not lower in TRNC than in Kiev.

The multiple hour date:

Where one may notice a price advantage in the TRNC is with respect to the all night "programme" existing in the TRNC clubs, which begins at 1:00 AM and concludes at 9:00 AM. This is an eight (8) hour time period. The price is usually just double, or a little more than double, the 1 hour price.

Thus, for a girl whose 1 hour price is 150 Turkish Lira (TRY), the "all night" 8 hour programme price from 1AM. 9 AM, is usually around 350 TRY, which is only $175!

Now, it is true that in Kiev too, there is also a very good "multiple hour discount" concept that is prevalent, that will often enable you to negotiate an "all night" fee that is quite reasonable. For example, if you are a very good negotiator, or if you are just lucky, a working girl who asks for 800 UAH ($100) for the first hour, might agree to 2 hours for 1200 UAH ($150) , or three hours for 1600 UAH ($200) , or all night for 2400 UAH ($300). But such things must be negotiated, and depend on various factors, and are not at all guaranteed.

By contrast, in TRNC, the "all night programme" of 8 hours, is an "institutionalized" and fixed low price. That price is just a bit more than double the 1 hour price. So that even in the "pricey" clubs in the Lefkosa Strip that charge 250 TRY for 1 hour, you can have an 8 hour all night programme with that girl for 500 TRY, which is $250. It's a fixed club price.

Or similarly, with regard to a daytime "programme" at one of the TRNC clubs, which can begin at 11:00AM and continue until 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM, usually at least 5 or 6 hours, the price will be somewhere between the 1 hour price and the all night programme price.

So for example, if the 1 hour price was 150 TRY, and the all night programme was 350 TRY, the daytime programme would likely be 250 TRY ($125). Again that would represent a very good value of 5 or 6 hours for only $125.

And even at a more pricey Lefkosa Strip club where the 1 hour price is 250 TRY, and the all night programme is 500 TRY, you might be asked a daytime programme price of 350 TRY or 400 TRY. Well. 400 TRY is $200. And $200 for 6 hours seems pretty reasonable.

Daytime Action:

Also, considering that for many mongers the late night hours of 3:00 AM. 7:00 AM are not their best hours for sexual activity, the option for these gentlemen to have a daytime programme is appealing.

So I think that with regard to prices, it is fair to say:

(1) that the price of a one hour session in TRNC clubs is similar to the price for the same in Kiev. But,

(2) that with regard to multiple hour all night or daytime dates, there is a price advantage in the TRNC over Kiev. In the TRNC the low price for such multiple hour day or night dates is already institutionalized and fixed by the club. In Kiev you can try and negotiate similarly low multiple hour date prices, but a result in Kiev as low as what is possible in the TRNC clubs is not guaranteed, or even necessarily likely.

Quality:

But what do you get for the 150 Turkish Lira you might spend for an hour in the clubs in the Lapta Strip?

Is there any difference in "quality" of beauty between the girls available in the Lapta Strip, and what you get for 600 UAH in Kiev from mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or some other website with low prices?

Seeing the girls in advance:

To be honest, I was not that impressed by the line ups I saw in the catalogs of the clubs in the Lapta Strip and the Lefkosa Strip. However, there was the notable exception of several quite good looking girls I eventually came across in Monamour. There were also some photos in the catelogs at a few of the clubs in the Lefkosa Strip who were quite pretty, although they were not at the club and available when I was there. So there are a few pretty girls in the TRNC clubs, but you have to find them.

What this means is that in the TRNC, there are some pretty girls working in some of the clubs. It also means that it will take you a little work of visiting the various clubs and looking at their catelogs, and then looking at their line ups in actuality when they open the clubs at 8:30 PM and the girls appear on stage to do their strip dances, for you to be able to identify the really pretty girls and note where they are working.

Perhaps 150 Girls to Choose From:

There are six (6) clubs in the Lapta Strip: Monamour, Golden Girls, Saritaslar, Blue Night, Titanik, and Mak5im. There are another fifteen (15) clubs in the Lefkosa Strip: Imparator, Romantic, Bijax, Mexico, Lipstick, Nane, Florida, Freedom, Faraon, White Horse, Funky Girls, Hanedan, Harem, Playboy and Tutti Frutti. In total, in these two "easy to get to" strips of road where the clubs are located, there are a total of twenty-one (21) clubs.

(There are at least another five (5) more clubs in more outlying areas near Guzelyurt and Lefka that I have not included because they involve driving further out, but you can just extrapolate the total numbers of girls if you want to include these additional clubs in your calculations.)

Each club has between five to ten girls in its catalog. A rough estimate would be that there are a total of somewhere between 150. 200 girls working in these clubs. That is the pool of girls that one may choose from in the TRNC clubs in Lapta and Lefkosa, inclusive. It is a finite and not large pool of girls to choose from. In one or two days of visiting the clubs in the strips in Lapta and Lefkosa, you will be able to identify which of these 150. 200 girls is appealing to you, and at which clubs they are located. The majority of these 150. 200 girls were too plain of face, or too plump of body, to get me excited about them. But there were a few girls who looked pretty good, and some girls who looked downright excellent, but these were a small percentage of the whole.

Being able to see in advance what the girl looks like, like you can do in TRNC clubs, would seem to be a huge advantage over the Internet sites in Kiev, like mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com and others, where fake pictures are mostly used, and you must wait until the girl shows up at your doorstep to see what she actually looks like. And there is a distinct possibility that an unappealing girl will show up, and then you must send her back, and call for another girl. This hit or miss process that takes place in Kiev, until a girl arrives by chance who looks good enough to you, is very inefficient and wastes considerable time.

So, theoretically, being able to see in advance, before choosing, as you can do in TRNC clubs, cuts out a lot of the time waste that happens when using Kiev's fake picture Internet sites.

However, on the other hand, it is also necessary to invest considerable effort and time into visiting all the clubs and surveying what is available in the clubs of TRNC, because unfortunately the girls' photos are not up on the internet.

But once you invest a day or two into visiting all the clubs and seeing and making accurate notes as to which girls are where, you can simply devote your efforts to trying to secure the time you want to spend with each girl that you know you want.

Therefore, in order to benefit from the ability to see the girls in advance in TRNC, you will need sufficient time to first complete your one or two days of surveys of the clubs, and then sufficient additional time in TRNC to secure dates with the girls you want.

How much time is needed for doing this? This question brings me to the consideration of another factor that affects this process. Availability of girls.

The "Availability of Girls" factor:

The fact that there are a large number of Turkish men, including many young men, hopping between the clubs every day, eagerly seeking out the best pussy in the clubs in TRNC at the same time as you are trying to have a good time, means that there is a lot of male competition for securing time with the best girls.

Best girls get a lot of mileage:

It also means that the best girls are getting quite a bit of mileage during their six month contracts to work in these clubs. On a night programme for the 8 hours from 1:00 AM to 9:00 AM, the girls are expected to give sex three times to completion. In other words, the guy gets three pops. In addition to having sex those three times with the guy from the night programme, she may be booked for a day programme for another three pops. Then during the club's showtime from 9:00 PM to 1:00 AM, she is available for 1 hour sessions, and may get 2 or 3 of those. So it comes to being fucked up to about 8 times every day, although on the programmes it is the same one man fucking her three times that day, and it is possible that he may only fuck her two times instead of three. But the clientele at these clubs is for the most part young Turkish males who are very into sex and sport fucking. So I believe that the girls who look the best and are the hottest are getting fucked to the maximum amount of times their schedule allows, and they are being fucked by energetic young males, not older, perhaps more gentle mongers.

Now, these young Turks have a distinct advantage over you. They speak the same Turkish language as the club managers, and have the inside track as to getting preferential treatment by the club managers, both because they are Turkish, as well as because many of them are "regulars" in these clubs.

So what you are confronted with, in terms of availability of the hottest girls, is a scenario where when you ask the manager for a particular girl that you like, you are likely to be told that she has already been reserved by another man for the night programme, as well as she is already booked in advance for the next day's daytime programme. She may already also be booked for the couple of 1-hour bookings she can do during the club showtime between 9:00 PM-1:00 AM.

How far in advance can the Turkish guys pre-book the best girls? I don't know.

It may not happen all the time that some Turkish guy has pre-booked the girl you want. And you may be able to get a programme with the girl you want that evening, or the next afternoon, if you ask the manager to book it early on in the evening, let's say before 10:00 PM. But beating out the competition for the hottest girls, is a part of the challenge in TRNC.

And so this "competition" factor adds to the amount of time you must spend chasing your date with the hot girls you found at TRNC clubs that you want to spend time with.

So the answer to the question of how many days you need in order to be able to both first survey and identify where any hot girls might be located, and then to surmount the "competition" interference factor and get a date with the girl (s) you may want, depends on how much of a problem the "competition" factor is for the best girls.

Based on my own experiences during the three days I experimented with this issue, the only thing I can advise with a little bit of certainty, is that three days is not enough time to both survey the clubs and surmount the competition factor as to the hottest girls. On the days I visited the clubs surveying the situation and viewing the catelogs, the best looking girls in the catelogs were not to be found available in the clubs. They were out at some hotel, presumably on a programme. Getting them would obviously require coming back to the club at a later time and being able to secure an advance booking through the manager.

Therefore, I would advise a visit of up to a week to be able to take full advantage of getting dates with the hottest girls in all the clubs.

You should also avoid the mistake of delaying asking for a booking until the latter hours of the club's evening show time. If you wait until after 10:00 PM, all the good girls will likely be booked, even for a 1 hour date in the club.

Most probably, once you know who your sweetheart (s) is / are in a particular club (meaning you have already seen the girls on stage and know their actual appearance) , you should not even wait for the club to open, but rather you should try to book the girl in advance. That way, if you are told she is busy for that night's programme, or the next afternoon's programme, you will have the opportunity to try to book her for a programme the night or day after that, since it is obvious that advance bookings by others are what is getting in your way.

The girls are coming to work on six month contracts. Therefore, there is some stability to the line ups in the clubs, and it would seem reporting on this thread can be relied upon within those limits. Therefore, reports about good girls or good line ups are certain to be obsolete within six months, and probably sooner if the reporter visited the club in, let's say, the third month of the girls' contract. For example, in one club I visited, I was told that the three girls whose pictures I liked in the catelog, had just left the club having completed their contracts.

Therefore, for those planning to visit within the next two or maybe three months, I would advise to go straight to Monamour club in the Lapta area, and see if the conditions I saw still obtain. They had three or four very good looking girls. Once you make bookings with those hot girls at Monamour, you can go investigate the catelogs of the other clubs.

For visitors who might go to Cyprus more than two or three months from now, I suppose it is worth checking out Monamour. But more likely than not, it is back to the drawing board, and a full survey of the clubs to know where the hottest girls are working will be necessary. Unless of course there is some accurate reporting on the Cyprus thread that can help shorten the process.

Services:

With regard to services, uncovered BJ is standard in TRNC, just like it is in the FKK's of Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. In Kiev, it will depend on the girl, and most escorts in Kiev say up front "everything in Preservativ", which means a covered BJ. It is also often possible to negotiate this in Kiev, but it is not a guaranteed standard service, as in FKK's or in the TRNC clubs. The girls in the TRNC nightclubs are expected to give good service, and there is much more uniformity about this in TRNC, than in Kiev, where getting a GFE service is something of an art.

So I think a fair thing to say about an advantage the TRNC clubs have over Kiev, is that if you want to spend a low price like 150 TRY = $75= 600 UAH, and be pretty certain that you will get an uncovered natural BJ, then you can get that more certainly in TRNC than in Kiev, where it is not standard.

However, the appearance and looks of the girls at the clubs in the Lapta Strip who had such low prices, were mostly in the average level of looks, of girls in the range of 5's. 6's and a maybe a few 7's. The exception was two or three of the girls I saw at Monamour who I would rate as 7. 5.8. 0. But that is the result of pure chance as to which girls come from Moldova at any given time, and to which clubs they go, and if they are there at the time of your visit.

The line up will be entirely different within a few months, and another club may excel over Monamour in a short while. A case in point is what happened at Golden Girls, which received good reviews by TheKnight based on what he saw there at the time he last visited. Yet, at the time of my subsequent visit, a bunch of girls had just completed their contracts and left, and what remained at the club was not worth looking at.

I therefore must stop short of saying that you will definitely find very hot (by that I mean 8. 0 and above) girls in the clubs in the Lapta Strip, available at the rate of 150 Lira (600 UAH/$75). But there is a possibility of it. However, you will likely at least find some average looking girls who are doable.

There were definitely hot girls in some of the clubs in Lefkosa. They may not be available to you on the moment you happen to appear at a club. But if you have time to invest in it, you will probably ultimately get your turn with a popular girl if you get to clubs early, and try to book the girl early for the programme of the night or the next day, or even an hour at the club during the show time.

For example, now that I know of the existence of a few girls I like at this or that club, if I had more time in Cyprus, I could make it my business to be at her club right at opening time and secure a reservation to see her from the manager for the period of time I wanted her for. Or better yet, I would go to her club in the afternoon before the club opens and try to make an advance booking for time with that girl.

The issue I confronted on this trip was that I didn't have additional days to chase down a session with particular girls at Monamour club (Stella, Elena, Mina.). And having made my move to ask for a booking too late on the night I first saw her at the club and wanted her, she got booked by other guys right out from under me. It was the evening before I had to leave Cyprus, and so I had no additional days left to follow up on her and get a programme with her. So that is why I say that you will need a sufficient number of days to get to a girl, once you find her, if there is a lot of competition for her time.

Summation:

I think it is fair to say, on the plus side for TRNC clubs, that (1) GFE type services such as uncovered oral sex (BBBJ) are more standardized, and thus more available, at the TRNC clubs than in Kiev, (2) the night or day "programme" of multiple hour dates available in TRNC clubs has a lower net price per hour with a much steeper discount, than might be available for a similar multiple hours date in Kiev, and with more certainty than Kiev, because in TRNC such low prices are fixed club prices, whereas in Kiev a multiple hour discount rate must be negotiated in each case with no guaranteed outcome.

On the minus side for TRNC clubs, it is true that (3) there are relatively very few girls to choose from in the TRNC clubs (maybe 150-200 girls in total, most of whom are plain looking) , compared to the probably thousands of girls involved in p4p available in a place like Kiev, which of course increases your statistical likelihood of encountering working girls who are hot, and that (4) in TRNC there is interference in the form of "competition" from other men for the available time of each of the few actually hot looking girls as may exist in the TRNC clubs, in a form that you would not experience in Kiev.

Would I return? Yes, but not because it is a better mongering location than Kiev. It isn't. For me, TRNC lacks the higher level options that Kiev has if one is willing to pay a little more than base prices, when one goes to nightclubs or strip clubs. TRNC is simply much smaller than Kiev, with much less high level beauty p4p opportunity. However TRNC is a beautiful island and a good place to combine a nice restful type vacation with some mongering. And there are definitely good girls with excellent service to be had in TRNC, if you invest the effort to identify where they are, and exhibit persistence in trying to get time to enjoy being with them in order to beat out the competition of all the Turkish guys trying to fuck the same girls you want.

The high level of male competition is the same reason I never bothered with FKK Goldentime Bruggen, in Dusseldorf area, when I did FKK trips to Germany, preferring to stick with the Frankfurt area FKK's on days when there is no "Messe" business conventions. Goldentime is notorious for overcrowding and high male / female ratios, coupled with a shortage of rooms. I have never encountered that in FKK Oase and FKK Palace. The time I visited FKK Villa Vertigo in Dusseldorf area, the best girls were grabbed up immediately by the regulars, never to be seen that day again. I don't think it is productive to choose a location with a high level of male competition, when locations that do not suffer from this problem are easily available.

So if I would have to choose between Kiev and TRNC as a mongering destination, I would choose Kiev for the advantages it has over TRNC. However, if I was also looking for a nice vacation environment on a beautiful beach environment, I would definitely consider the extra expense involved in traveling to TRNC, knowing I could monger there with great service guaranteed and some really pretty girls I could get to with a little effort.

I would want to investigate the vacation potential of a place like Cyprus during the winter months. If it stays warm, like Miami Beach, then it is something to think about for that reason. But if it's too cold for the beach in the winter months in Cyprus, then I would analyze it in comparison to a place like Odessa, in terms of mongering opportunity in a summer vacation environment. Kiev is a city, and is not really comparable to a vacation beach resort type area.

Happy Mongering.

LJ

Menidi
09-02-13, 11:59
Yes agree with visiting these brothels is cheaper than bring the girl to your apartment. In previous trips I visited some BUT nextbtrip they were not any longer there (they change constantly their places) furthermore for non speaker Russian like me not easy to contact them and a taxi driver is always a risk for extra prices. My last trip was 1 month ago and visied a brothel in the back side of Friday restaurant. Do you have updated information for my next trip next month? I mean telephone numbers or street and number and apartment number to contact them? Thanks in advanceI agree with the notion of going to Kiev for brothels is not worth it. Not because they are expensive (UAH500 / UAH600), but because they are so much more "other" types of entertainment.

Nonetheless, when you decide to visit one of these places you just need to ring them up and ask for details. Visit these sites for first contact:

Sexkiev dot net.

Uaputana dot info.

Minuet dot biz.

Top-modals dot com.

Uoykucf
09-02-13, 12:37
I arrived at Kiev airport (KBP) in the sunny early afternoon and brought lots of cash, Euros, $, Czk, Pln, American Express traveller's checks, etc; so I asked the Customs officer, a good-looking slim blond, if I have to declare, just before I exit. The airline personel upon arrival was quite helpful, much better than I expected. I had arranged for two Unkrainians, a woman and a man, to meet me at the airport weeks ago since I don't speak any Russian and have never been to Ukraine. Two, just in case, one of them doesn't show up or cancel; even if I have to pay for both. I met both of them shortly upon exit; I took some UAH out of the ATM; then the woman called for a taxi for all of us to go to my apartment, located right in the center, one street up from the Presidential Palace. The taxi arrived within minutes! The cost was 177 UAH + small tip.

Uoykucf
09-02-13, 15:39
I arrived at Kiev airport (KBP) in the sunny early afternoon and brought lots of cash, Euros, $, Czk, Pln, American Express traveller's checks, etc; so I asked the Customs officer, a good-looking slim blond, if I have to declare, just before I exit. The airline personel upon arrival was quite helpful, much better than I expected. I had arranged for two Unkrainians, a woman and a man, to meet me at the airport weeks ago since I don't speak any Russian and have never been to Ukraine. Two, just in case, one of them doesn't show up or cancel; even if I have to pay for both. I met both of them shortly upon exit; I took some UAH out of the ATM; then the woman called for a taxi for all of us to go to my apartment, located right in the center, one street up from the Presidential Palace. The taxi arrived within minutes! The cost was 177 UAH + small tip.After the taxi arrived in the center Kreshatik, they took me to the MTC shop to pick up a simcard 10 UAH with 1 UAH credit, put some credits 50 UAH on it and activated it;

So I'll be ready to go with my mongering around town.

We walked around Kreshatik, where there're lots of activities. Street performers, vendor stands, Merry Go Around, etc. Then the woman took us to a vegetarian restaurant right around Kreshatik, which was quite good.

They made the food and dessert tasty (I mean for vegetarian food) and look great. But I was hungry; so who knows. The cost was less than 100 UAH per person, not bad.

Uoykucf
09-02-13, 15:59
Went to Kiev last month for six days.

I will not recommend Kiev if you are looking for fast sex tourism. Except Mamba, which requires time & work, there is not much decent and cheap option.

But city is nice and cheap. If you have time, freebies certainly possible especially in student clubs.
I think your post is correct, but yet misleading. Kiev is certainly a sex tourism destination, but unlike FKK's or Thailand, it's just not in your face. I think it's unique to Europe because it gives access to some really personal service by fresh college age girls. You don't want to travel there to fuck just regular prostitutes. You have to get dates arranged before you fly into town, especially if you are there for only six days.

As you mentioned, it takes time and work and various other factors. I find one of the biggest obstacles is "qualifying" for a girl. Which can usually be over come by a word of mouth reference from another friend that knows her. I don't use Mamba anymore, only VK. It's easy for me determine who's for sale by profile (generally fancy pictures, luxury goods, and exotic locations). Be very careful with messages on VK as to not make a direct connotation to prostitution. Girl's spend a lot of time creating profiles and do not want administrators closing them down.

If Kiev is cheap, I must be living in the wrong part of town.Go far away from the center if you want to cheap.

If you want it cheap living, go to the left bank.

The apartments located on or next to Kreshatik street and the Presidential Palace are fairly expensive.

The three bedroom apartment, which I rented for a month, costs 4500 $. It has double door with a foyer at the entry, a large living room, dining room with a huge (boardroom like) dining table, where I ate some 19 year old pussies, big kitchen and huge bath with a jazuzzi and a second bath, two balconies, front and back and a washer and a dryer.

It really impresses pussies.

Guntherus
09-03-13, 00:55
Recently I had Asya 18, from Mamba, to my apartment. Great sex, very petite, passionate after a little warm-up massage. Almost non existant English (communications via operator) , did not know before that she was a working girl. Damage 600uah (afternoon session). Got her personal number, texted her the night after ans asked to visit her place. To my surprise, she is in a salon with 13 girls, back of Fridays. One of them spoke more English than most, Marina or Malina, born in Germany. She is new and has a rather nice attitude. But my date was Asya, again 600uah, because this was "rush hour"! So much to update. Salut. RB.


Yes agree with visiting these brothels is cheaper than bring the girl to your apartment. In previous trips I visited some BUT nextbtrip they were not any longer there (they change constantly their places) furthermore for non speaker Russian like me not easy to contact them and a taxi driver is always a risk for extra prices. My last trip was 1 month ago and visied a brothel in the back side of Friday restaurant. Do you have updated information for my next trip next month? I mean telephone numbers or street and number and apartment number to contact them? Thanks in advance

YellowPaul
09-03-13, 01:55
Go far away from the center if you want to cheap.

If you want it cheap living, go to the left bank.

The apartments located on or next to Kreshatik street and the Presidential Palace are fairly expensive.

The three bedroom apartment, which I rented for a month, costs 4500 $. It has double door with a foyer at the entry, a large living room, dining room with a huge (boardroom like) dining table, where I ate some 19 year old pussies, big kitchen and huge bath with a jazuzzi and a second bath, two balconies, front and back and a washer and a dryer.

It really impresses pussies.Uoykucf.

Do you want to meet up? I arrive on Wednesday. You need to pay $20 to get the paid membership to send and receive PM's.

Climaxnow
09-03-13, 02:13
Anybody know anything about the nightclub Disco Radio Hall. I think its out of the center. I browsed the photo gallery and its packed with lots of hotties. Unfortunately, it is also packed with local guys. Seems to be the place where girls go to be out of sight of foreigners. Is it worth a trip? Safe?

DoctorOral
09-03-13, 08:39
It it nice, it is cool, it is safe.

It has a nice VIP hangout.

It is not the place you would expect foreigners.

So I would only go as an experienced "almost-local".

And not if you are over 40, that would be outragous!


Anybody know anything about the nightclub Disco Radio Hall. I think its out of the center. I browsed the photo gallery and its packed with lots of hotties. Unfortunately, it is also packed with local guys. Seems to be the place where girls go to be out of sight of foreigners. Is it worth a trip? Safe?

JohnCrichton
09-03-13, 13:01
Dear LJ,

Thank you for not blasting me too much. You are right of course, in an anonymous forum like this I (and USGrant) could be Alex for all you know.

I am a monger (perhaps part-time monger) that did a lot of lurking on forums like this one a few years ago. I had a membership to World Sex Archives for a while, and have mongered in Costa Rica (Fisherman's Lodge yay!) , Czech Republic, Istanbul, and of course Kiev. My last mongering (before the bachelor party a year ago) was in Romania in Oct 2011, where I was able to hire a really nice girl off of a website.

I'm not sure if you'd be interested in my first experience in Kiev. It was November 2006 and Royal Palace was still around. Ironically, I found out about Alex when doing research for the trip on a forum very much like this one (WSA).

I'll write up a field report on the bachelor party a year ago. Some of that information may still be current. Ironically, most nights we wound up at Rio. We really liked the girls and the sushi was pretty good. We hit Penthouse one night as well, but only briefly. I'm surprised to hear that other strip clubs in Kiev are rated so much better than Rio. Again, I'll have to check them out.

I do appreciate the need for more details for credibility.

Kind Regards,

JCrichtonHere's the report. I'll give all fair warning now, there is probably not as much mongering in here as you would normally like.

I'd hired Alex for a week to help guide a friend's stag party in Kiev. Four of us came to Kiev from various parts of the United States and were picked up by Alex without incident at Borispol. The first day I remember we took a couple hour break and then went out that evening. The five of us wandered around Khreshaltik and wound up meeting four girls on the street. We picked them up (they were around 19. 20) and took them to Shato for drinking games. It was a good time though none of us hooked up or tried P4P, and we wound up dancing all night a club called "Sorry Babushka." Alex was very helpful in translating our conversation with the women since although they spoke some English, they didn't speak it fluently.

The next day, one of the four members of the party decided "Screw this, I'm getting married here" and (very seriously) wanted to find a Ukrainian girl for marriage. Alex knew a reputable marriage agency in Kiev where he took our friend. Joe was able to spend the remainder of the week going out on actual dates with a variety of very beautiful Ukrainian girls. Of course, the remainder of the Bachelor Party claimed his man card for activities contrary to the spririt of the party.

Also on the second day Alex was kind enough to introduce us to a free outdoor excercise facility by Kiev's Hydropark. For a group of Americans used to lifting at the gym it was quite a sight. Various weights, machines, and counterweights welded together, painted, and left outside for anybody to use. Some of the weights for a lat-pulldown machine were made from tank parts. What was surprising to me was how smooth the action on all of the various weights were. The bachelor (Dave) and I were able to get several good workouts in using this place.

The remainder of the week had us going to various and sundry sites around Kiev by day, and then usually to Rio at night. The nights at Rio were a lot of fun. At the time (last summer) the story was $300. 00 to take one of the girls home. Additionally, Alex was able to take us on a tour of some of the best sights in and around Kiev, including:

*Driving go karts at a rather long indoor racetrack. The bachelor had raced go karts in indoor tracks in the US, and he commented that this track was twice as long.

*Visiting a gun range. We were able to shoot all manner of firearms at the gun range, including an old Mosin rifle, an AK-47, and a Dragonov sniper rifle.

*Driving an armored personnel carrier. We were also all able to take turns driving an APC. After finishing a bottle of Stoli with the crew of the vehicle. We almost had a chance to drive a tank (T-72 I think) , but there was some general showing up to the base for inspections that week so that was a no-go.

*Visiting a Cold War area ICBM complex. The Soviet Union had a lot of their ICBM sites placed in Ukraine. There is now a former ICBM site that is a musuem placed about 300 km away from Ukraine. What I thought was especially cool about this was the guides were former Soviet officers who had worked at the base. In addition to the missile base iteslf, there are several examples of Soviet rockets, rocket engines, and a few tanks and missile-carrying trucks.

*Touring all of Kiev's various sites such as the Museum of the Great Patriotic War, the Monastaries, the Churches, and Micro-Miniature Museum.

Alex worked with the guys at Rio to bring the girls home (ok, so it looks like we could do that on our own) and also worked with all of the various sites / activities above. Of course, Alex also knows a variety of restuarants in Kiev and various places to go and meet girls around the city.

The last night of the bachelor party was exceptional. Alex arranged to take us to an American style steakhouse (Uncle Sam I think) and from there we went to Rio. At Rio we hung out with three girls that we'd done a lot of partying with that week (Ivanka, Johanna, and Sophie) and after paying $300 each took them to D'Lux and partied until 2:00 AM. At that point, we went back to Dave's apartment where the girls stripped down and did a lesbian show for us before (after a few more drinks and champange spilled on the bachelor) some of us took some of them back to our apartments. The bachelor party had rented apartments in the same building, making this easy. The girls wound up going home at 6:00 AM, well more than just the usual three hours.

All in all it was a great time and an epic bachelor party. It wasn't only mongering for certain, and my apologies if this story bored anybody reading this hoping for a story of a nonstop sexfest. It wasn't that. All of us had a great time though, and to a man the whole party didn't think twice about Alex's value at the end. Certainly, if somebody was going to Ukraine and wanted to do a bit more than P4P then I'd say hiring Alex as your local guide is a good idea if you can afford him. To do much touring around Ukraine having a local driver certainly has some value all on its own as well. If a guide isn't your thing then no harm done.

I'm looking forward to reading more of the posts in the ISG forums. Thanks for taking the time to read this.

YellowPaul
09-03-13, 13:16
It it nice, it is cool, it is safe.

It has a nice VIP hangout.

It is not the place you would expect foreigners.

So I would only go as an experienced "almost-local".

And not if you are over 40, that would be outragous!Doc.

Have you been to the new Coyote Ugly bar? The pictures on FB look good and place is getting a bit of buzz.

I arrive on Wednesday.

RB

Uoykucf
09-03-13, 17:27
The only Supermarket in the center is Billa and it's small!

Very limited selection of food! The meats look horrible! I was told by knowlegeable locals: " Don't eat the meat! They're terrible!"

Uoykucf
09-03-13, 17:36
There're fairly extensive selection of alcohol in shops around the center and they're cheap!

If you really want it cheap, get the Ukrainian vodka, wine and beer.

Cheapest vodka is around 30 UAH for half a liter.

Cheapest wine is around 35 UAH for 750ml.

Good selection of imported beers and liquor in upscale shops.

Uoykucf
09-03-13, 17:45
There are girls and guys handing out cards to apartment girls along Kreshatik every night.

Good-looking apartment girls cost 1000 UAH.

Cheapest ones are 400 to 500.

DoctorOral
09-03-13, 19:19
Yes, nice place.

Good to go!


Doc.

Have you been to the new Coyote Ugly bar? The pictures on FB look good and place is getting a bit of buzz.

I arrive on Wednesday.

RB

Climaxnow
09-03-13, 19:43
One of the first things that struck me in Kiev was the face of disappointment on the young slick twenty somethings freshly arrived from Western Europe. They were worthless to the local girls because most young attractive guys don't monger and the girls all know it. Most young guys looking to party are better off staying home where they stand a true chance of finding somebody interested in them even for just one night stand. Kiev girls think of their pussy as a profit center and have no interest giving it away to some weekend yahoo. What a great feeling it was to get more looks than the young guy!

I had this preconceived notion that Ukraine would be like Riga twelve years. FUCK NO! Completely different dynamics at play.

Danish Traveler
09-03-13, 20:36
Please stop writing about Alex and his services. First you do not need such in Kiev, second it is obvious a comercial text for Alex. I am almost so tired of it, that am to read about the touriststrip-trap Rio.

Uoykucf
09-03-13, 20:36
One of the first things that struck me in Kiev was the face of disappointment on the young slick twenty somethings freshly arrived from Western Europe. They were worthless to the local girls because most young attractive guys don't monger and the girls all know it. Most young guys looking to party are better off staying home where they stand a true chance of finding somebody interested in them even for just one night stand. Kiev girls think of their pussy as a profit center and have no interest giving it away to some weekend yahoo. What a great feeling it was to get more looks than the young guy!

I had this preconceived notion that Ukraine would be like Riga twelve years. FUCK NO! Completely different dynamics at play.You are right on.

Kiev girls know their pussies = $$$$$$

They save them for the day they need money.

Then they take them out and cash in.

I saw a young Brit trying to pick up a local chick on Kreshatik while his friend looked on.

No surprise he failed miserably, scratching his head not knowing what just happened.

Like someone said, to them "you are walking ATMs" and their pussies are ATM cards.

They are looking for ATMs that will take their cards. LOL

El Cubanito
09-03-13, 21:29
Here's the report. I'll give all fair warning now, there is probably not as much mongering in here as you would normally like.

I'd hired Alex for a week to help guide a friend's stag party in Kiev. Four of us came to Kiev from various parts of the United States and were picked up by Alex without incident at Borispol. The first day I remember we took a couple hour break and then went out that evening. The five of us wandered around Khreshaltik and wound up meeting four girls on the street. We picked them up (they were around 19. 20) and took them to Shato for drinking games. It was a good time though none of us hooked up or tried P4P, and we wound up dancing all night a club called "Sorry Babushka." Alex was very helpful in translating our conversation with the women since although they spoke some English, they didn't speak it fluently.

The next day, one of the four members of the party decided "Screw this, I'm getting married here" and (very seriously) wanted to find a Ukrainian girl for marriage. Alex knew a reputable marriage agency in Kiev where he took our friend. Joe was able to spend the remainder of the week going out on actual dates with a variety of very beautiful Ukrainian girls. Of course, the remainder of the Bachelor Party claimed his man card for activities contrary to the spririt of the party.

Also on the second day Alex was kind enough to introduce us to a free outdoor excercise facility by Kiev's Hydropark. For a group of Americans used to lifting at the gym it was quite a sight. Various weights, machines, and counterweights welded together, painted, and left outside for anybody to use. Some of the weights for a lat-pulldown machine were made from tank parts. What was surprising to me was how smooth the action on all of the various weights were. The bachelor (Dave) and I were able to get several good workouts in using this place.

The remainder of the week had us going to various and sundry sites around Kiev by day, and then usually to Rio at night. The nights at Rio were a lot of fun. At the time (last summer) the story was $300. 00 to take one of the girls home. Additionally, Alex was able to take us on a tour of some of the best sights in and around Kiev, including:

*Driving go karts at a rather long indoor racetrack. The bachelor had raced go karts in indoor tracks in the US, and he commented that this track was twice as long.

*Visiting a gun range. We were able to shoot all manner of firearms at the gun range, including an old Mosin rifle, an AK-47, and a Dragonov sniper rifle.

*Driving an armored personnel carrier. We were also all able to take turns driving an APC. After finishing a bottle of Stoli with the crew of the vehicle. We almost had a chance to drive a tank (T-72 I think) , but there was some general showing up to the base for inspections that week so that was a no-go.

*Visiting a Cold War area ICBM complex. The Soviet Union had a lot of their ICBM sites placed in Ukraine. There is now a former ICBM site that is a musuem placed about 300 km away from Ukraine. What I thought was especially cool about this was the guides were former Soviet officers who had worked at the base. In addition to the missile base iteslf, there are several examples of Soviet rockets, rocket engines, and a few tanks and missile-carrying trucks.

*Touring all of Kiev's various sites such as the Museum of the Great Patriotic War, the Monastaries, the Churches, and Micro-Miniature Museum.

Alex worked with the guys at Rio to bring the girls home (ok, so it looks like we could do that on our own) and also worked with all of the various sites / activities above. Of course, Alex also knows a variety of restuarants in Kiev and various places to go and meet girls around the city.

The last night of the bachelor party was exceptional. Alex arranged to take us to an American style steakhouse (Uncle Sam I think) and from there we went to Rio. At Rio we hung out with three girls that we'd done a lot of partying with that week (Ivanka, Johanna, and Sophie) and after paying $300 each took them to D'Lux and partied until 2:00 AM. At that point, we went back to Dave's apartment where the girls stripped down and did a lesbian show for us before (after a few more drinks and champange spilled on the bachelor) some of us took some of them back to our apartments. The bachelor party had rented apartments in the same building, making this easy. The girls wound up going home at 6:00 AM, well more than just the usual three hours.

All in all it was a great time and an epic bachelor party. It wasn't only mongering for certain, and my apologies if this story bored anybody reading this hoping for a story of a nonstop sexfest. It wasn't that. All of us had a great time though, and to a man the whole party didn't think twice about Alex's value at the end. Certainly, if somebody was going to Ukraine and wanted to do a bit more than P4P then I'd say hiring Alex as your local guide is a good idea if you can afford him. To do much touring around Ukraine having a local driver certainly has some value all on its own as well. If a guide isn't your thing then no harm done.

I'm looking forward to reading more of the posts in the ISG forums. Thanks for taking the time to read this.Dude I am a Cuban-American black man. I do not know the language except for a few words that I learn from Rossetta Stone. Even a guy like me got laid every night I was in Kiev, Poltava, Dniprotrovesk (sp?) and Kharvof except for the first 2 nights I was in Ukraine. The girls in Kiev if you got game will want to talk to you especially if you have humor and game. I met a girl in Poltava who put me up in her apartment and we had a great, great time. You do not need a person to hold your dick and tell you put it in this hold. If you do use a guide the girl will not respect you and that I can tell you for sure. Ukraine is a gold mine.

Climaxnow
09-03-13, 21:37
Just a simple VK tip. When you spam girls, as I do, make sure you browse the first twenty photos in a prospects profile. If I see a tongue sticking out, the v sign palm inside, a girl holding a giant teddy bear, or just get the vibe, than I feel that I have been given the green light to solicit. Analyzing the profiles really helps cut down the "fuck you idiot" return messages.

How14
09-03-13, 21:50
Just a simple VK tip. When you spam girls, as I do, make sure you browse the first twenty photos in a prospects profile. If I see a tongue sticking out, the v sign palm inside, a girl holding a giant teddy bear, or just get the vibe, than I feel that I have been given the green light to solicit. Analyzing the profiles really helps cut down the "fuck you idiot" return messages.Who cares about the "fuck you idiot" replies? Doesn't matter, just plough on and you will reap rewards.

Climaxnow
09-04-13, 02:41
Who cares about the "fuck you idiot" replies? Docent matter, just plough on and you will reap rewards.True, but their is a limit set by VK of messages sent per day.

Uoykucf
09-04-13, 23:18
The buses are small and old!

I wouldn't ride them.

There're no trams in the center around Kreshatik!

But if you live on Kreshatik, there's no need to use public transport.

Uoykucf
09-04-13, 23:20
WGs are present from about 21:00 and onwards. Most are dressed up in pairs. They will come and talk to you if you sit alone.

I was sitting there one night about 21:30; one brunnette started talking to me in English and her friend, a blond was sitting next to her.

Uoykucf
09-04-13, 23:23
Around where I stay, the streets are quiet with little traffic and walk thru red light are ok even in presence of traffic police.

Many locals do! No problem.

Menidi
09-05-13, 13:16
WGs are present from about 21:00 and onwards. Most are dressed up in pairs. They will come and talk to you if you sit alone.

I was sitting there one night about 21:30; one brunnette started talking to me in English and her friend, a blond was sitting next to her.The ones on Khreschatyk are old, ugly and charge stupid amount of money. Best for street action is to get a cab to Poremohy Avenue after the metro Zhytomyrska.

Uoykucf
09-05-13, 18:29
The ones on Khreschatyk are old, ugly and charge stupid amount of money. Best for street action is to get a cab to Poremohy Avenue after the metro Zhytomyrska.Actually, the brunette and her blond friend were about mid 20's, good-looking. And well-dressed. Because I was waiting for a "date", I didn't bother to pursue further.

Uoykucf
09-05-13, 18:34
The ones on Khreschatyk are old, ugly and charge stupid amount of money. Best for street action is to get a cab to Poremohy Avenue after the metro Zhytomyrska.I will go with a local and take a taxi ride far away from the center on Saturday night looking for cheap young good-looking 400 UAH / hr pussies on the streets because some locals say it's too expensive in the center. 100 $/hr.

Will report back afterward.

AColonizer
09-06-13, 15:06
Hello,

I sometimes come back here and I read the same or worse purposes. I choice this post just because it is the first one I read in Ukraine thread. The question is always the same and it concerns all aspects of life: women, jobs, governments, religions, etc. I try, again, to rationalize this matter and to avoid all our efforts are ephemeral as the beers in a pub.

If a man wants or can have sex in exchanging of money, then he finds that only. If a man wants or can pay huge prices for P4P, then he pays that only. And P4P means any relationship between a man and a woman through which a man gets something by a woman in exchanging of something else, and vice versa: the Latin said "do ut des". There are very few relationships in human relationships through which there is no a material exchange, such as cash, cock, children, or prostitution, fuckingfriendship, marriage. Who is looking for a real feeling or something transcendental, then he will be always sorrowful to never find that.

Any human relationship is subjected an implicit or an explicit bargaining. If a man has to pay huge prices for a prostitute or a girlfriend or a wife, then that merely means he has no or very small bargaining skill. Therefore he shouldn't be glad to pay huge prices even for a fantastic woman, because he shows he is a very weak man.


You are right on.

Kiev girls know their pussies = $$$$$$

They save them for the day they need money.

Then they take them out and cash in.

I saw a young Brit trying to pick up a local chick on Kreshatik while his friend looked on.

No surprise he failed miserably, scratching his head not knowing what just happened.

Like someone said, to them "you are walking ATMs" and their pussies are ATM cards.

They are looking for ATMs that will take their cards. LOL

Clement Mic
09-06-13, 22:38
All women in this world want something from you, and that is sure!

If you think she is with you only because she has feelings for you, then you are totally wrong.

They all want everything from us, it can be money, safety, child, marriage.

But a girl will suck you dry until you have none, they will do everything to change you and make you her puppet.

No girl will stay with you only because she has feelings for you or whatever.

Ukrainian girls just care a little bit less about materials, because they have been living all their life in Ukraine, and they are not like our western girls who need this and that.

But marry to an Ukraine girl, then bring her to your country and see her changing in less than a year for sure!

That is why these days I think paying for pussy and getting what you paid for thats it, is not so bad!

Most people saying paying to get sex is weak don't know what they are talking about.

Most men with a girlfriend, meet her many times, offer her gifts, and then maybe sex, so whats the difference.

All girls want everything from you, and thats it, a working girl or not.

So I respect working girls, because at least they give the exact prices and do not play with us!

It is just the human nature, we are all greedy.

But a real man got to have his game right, and pay the less possible, or spend the less possible time with a girl to get what he wants, sex.

That become easier and easier with experience, it is all about methods.

Sex is really like a contract, you need to use your skills as much as possible to get it signed!

Or you just pay and thats it.

I used to only have sex with freebies and few p4p.

But these days I like p4p more than I used to.

Also p4p can take care of your * better than a regular girlfriend sometimes.

And that come from a man who get easy pussy and fucked a ton of beautiful Russian girls

Danish Traveler
09-07-13, 10:43
Could we please stop writing such degrading words about women. First of they are not true. At all Clement Mic and other who written similar before. Women come in a lot of different forms. And most women, most women in Ukraine too, can not be bought with anything. Second reason you should stop writting such bullshit is. That most people on this forum love women. Not just to have sex with them, but we love flirting and being with them too. They have another perspective on things than us men. Now go and wash your mouth with soap.

And I do not mind sex with money at all. It is perfectly ok. But please do not think all girls in Ukraine can be bought. Only a few percentage are avialable. Like women everywhere, most ukrainian girls look for love and lasting relationships. Not all, ofcause.

Treat girls here with respect and understand their culture. And believe me you can have the hottest girls in Ukraine.

Climaxnow
09-07-13, 12:05
Could we please stop writing such degrading words about women. First of they are not true. At all Clement Mic and other who written similar before. Women come in a lot of different forms. And most women, most women in Ukraine too, can not be bought with anything. Second reason you should stop writting such bullshit is. That most people on this forum love women. Not just to have sex with them, but we love flirting and being with them too. They have another perspective on things than us men. Now go and wash your mouth with soap.

And I do not mind sex with money at all. It is perfectly ok. But please do not think all girls in Ukraine can be bought. Only a few percentage are avialable. Like women everywhere, most ukrainian girls look for love and lasting relationships. Not all, ofcause.

Treat girls here with respect and understand their culture. And believe me you can have the hottest girls in Ukraine.Nobody is degrading women. They are just making point that money matters.

Moski
09-07-13, 12:29
Could we please stop writing such degrading words about women. First of they are not true. At all Clement Mic and other who written similar before. Women come in a lot of different forms. And most women, most women in Ukraine too, can not be bought with anything. Second reason you should stop writting such bullshit is. That most people on this forum love women. Not just to have sex with them, but we love flirting and being with them too. They have another perspective on things than us men. Now go and wash your mouth with soap.

And I do not mind sex with money at all. It is perfectly ok. But please do not think all girls in Ukraine can be bought. Only a few percentage are avialable. Like women everywhere, most ukrainian girls look for love and lasting relationships. Not all, ofcause.

Treat girls here with respect and understand their culture. And believe me you can have the hottest girls in Ukraine.Well said Danish, totally agree with you!

Moski
09-07-13, 12:35
Dude I am a Cuban-American black man. I do not know the language except for a few words that I learn from Rossetta Stone. Even a guy like me got laid every night I was in Kiev, Poltava, Dniprotrovesk (sp?) and Kharvof except for the first 2 nights I was in Ukraine. The girls in Kiev if you got game will want to talk to you especially if you have humor and game. I met a girl in Poltava who put me up in her apartment and we had a great, great time. You do not need a person to hold your dick and tell you put it in this hold. If you do use a guide the girl will not respect you and that I can tell you for sure. Ukraine is a gold mine.Hi Cubanito,

Just wondering about your comment on Dniprotrovesk, I will be there at the end of this month I would be greatful if you could expand and share and advise any tips to pick up places and p4p!

Thanks

Clement Mic
09-07-13, 13:19
I am not degrading women at all, it is just the way of life, it is human being.

And I didn't talk only about money! I said they all want something!

It can be your time, money, gifts, support.

It depends on the woman, and how you talk to her, but they all want something!

I respect women, but that is just the truth.

And if you think that it is not the truth, then you better look around again, take time to think and you will see I am only right.

Most the women I had in my life are freebies, I had long and short relationships, so I know what I am talking about.

And I am a good looking man, it is easy for me to get girls especially in Ukraine.

But sometimes it feels great to just pay for sex, and avoid all the troubles.

In bad situations, a girl can easily break up with you or let you down.

But when you have money, and everything is made easier, you are all in a comfortable situation, it happen less.

So at the end, money matters a lot. As sad as it is, money matters even more than your brain (to get women).

AColonizer
09-07-13, 13:29
We almost wrote the same matter, I could say we wrote the same post. Except for one word: respect.

I am usually a very loyalty and respectful man and I know what is the difference between the feeling called respect and the conformism called respect. And in the specific matter of P4P, unfortunately I always realize "more respect for a sex provider" always means "more fierce is her bargaining". Maybe we are talking of two different words, but the result of that so-called "respect" is always the same: be the loser in the P4P game. Most men don't realize that because they don't rationalize their P4P game into a material profit. But women do that for natural instinct.

Sure you are a good monger. Sure I am not good as you. But I would like to do something more. I try to avoid Eastern girls become as Western girls because Western men don't realize 100$/first hour is pure madness. I repeat, again and again, what my first super Ukrainian prostitute said to me years ago (already) she was paid according the time and not according the service, and in that working time she had to do everything a customer / a group of customers wants / want: she was just an object in the hands of unknown people, and she agreed that, knowingly. This was the real system of Soviet prostitution with Slavic customers. In fact, when Slavic prostitutes come to Western countries, the sex and the men are so mild as much as their work becomes also a pleasure, and even Slavic prostitutes find men willing to pay any amount: what a woman can ask more?

Therefore, I wonder:

- a Western man should be glad to pay money for a good sex, why there is no prostitute glad to refund money when the sex is less than usual? Maybe the so-called "respect" works into one only direction?

- why in Western countries the Law protects prostitutes (and their managers) and doesn't protect the customers (and their right to a good service without cheating)? Western governments have respect for their own taxpayers?

My friend, I never see respect in the real world, I always see a battle between winners and losers.


All women in this world want something from you, and that is sure!

If you think she is with you only because she has feelings for you, then you are totally wrong.

They all want everything from us, it can be money, safety, child, marriage.

But a girl will suck you dry until you have none, they will do everything to change you and make you her puppet.

No girl will stay with you only because she has feelings for you or whatever.

Ukrainian girls just care a little bit less about materials, because they have been living all their life in Ukraine, and they are not like our western girls who need this and that...

Danish Traveler
09-07-13, 16:31
Ofcause money matters. It is the driving forve behind all. But I just say please do not think all girls are like this, cause they are not. It is too not the point being made in the post I replied too

OwaRunner
09-07-13, 21:04
My PM system is working and I got a flight for Kiev. So PM if you like to hook up, or have some nice girls that you think I like to meet.

With best regards.

OwaRunner

Member #4491
09-08-13, 00:54
I believe you. You're one of the few posters whose opinions I treat as gospel. I'm moving to Kiev in October to live and work for a year, maybe more. I will go on my first trip in Ukraine soon after arriving. Looking at taking the train from Kiev to Sumy to Poltava to Kharkov and then flying back to Kiev. I'm curious how I'll do in Kharkov. Surely it can't be more difficult than Minsk.

By the way, have you ever hit Lugansk?Yea, I would guess Kharkov is easier than Minsk. Bolero is the obvious place for P4P but also in clubs like Radmir and Misto you will find talent (sorry for the off topic, guys).

Nope, never been to Lugansk.

Just came back from Kiev and Kharkov. Great fun as always. Indigo and Caribbean is two fun clubs that I can recommend.

CB, let us hook up when you arrive in Kiev. I go there more or less every month.

B

Member #4491
09-08-13, 01:03
I just want to put my perspective from the post I have read so far and my experience in SEA for any newbie or senior member on the fence having hard time choosing his next vacation. For me I'm never going back to SEA untill I exhaust all my options in EE.Starchild, you are wrong, and you know it. After all your posts in the SEA sections, you surprise me. I have no idea behind the real reason why you write like this, but it is far from a fair evaluation of these options. Maybe you had a stretch of bad luck in SEA, but to lay this out as general advice is very misleading. Mongering in SEA is at large like taking candy from kids. To claim anything else is nonsense.

Barba

Slavophile
09-08-13, 09:53
AColonizer,

I think what you're talking about and the word you are searching for in English is "sucker". You are essentially telling everyone don't be a sucker. P. T. Barnum once said (mind you I'm paraphrasing) there is a sucker born every minute and there is some truth to that.

With regards to respect, men must respect the limits and prices a girl asks for. We have the option to move on if we don't like her price or the service she provides. I mean how does the old saying go,"Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me."

If a girl gives bad service, let the free market work itself out, eventually the girl who continues to give bad service will not have repeat clients.

The girls who give clients good service will get more clients.

If the girl who gives bad service wants to continue to compete in the market, she eventually will have to step her game up or move to a place where people don't know her reputation.

I disagree with you with regards to your complaining about consumer rights in relation to prostitution. There are laws in place to protect these women from violence. Violent pimps (most pimps are male) , violent clients and other criminal elements. Read Iceberg Slim's book and I sure your view will change.

Many of the Temperance movements in Britain and in the US were aimed at stopping men from drinking. Why? Men were beating the hell out of their wives when they came home from the pubs and they were savagely beating prostitutes. Jack the Ripper wasn't killing well to do, upper class women, he was killing prostitutes in the East end (White Chapel) for Christ sakes.

Laws are not created in vacuum there usually is a historical precedence and context of how and why we have the laws that we have.

A "decent society" is normally judged on how it protects the weak from the strong, the few from the many, those who do not have, from those who have much.

Therefore, we will always have laws protecting women who are in this very old and I would say noble trade. Let's face it, we men need this trade to flourish or we would be even more savage than we already are.

With regards to women asking too much, it"s all about relative value. What might be too expensive for you or me, could be completely reasonable to some else and they are willing to pay the price.

I agree that in relation to monthly wages, the cost of living in many East European countries the asking prices of some of these girls have certainly got out of hand. You do make a very valid point and observation there. Having said that, I would say if these girls live in the capital city, the cost of living is borderline criminal and insane.

Clement you make some bang on observations. Sometimes it's just easier and less of a headache to just pay for it. No feelings, no broken hearts, just sex with a beautiful woman.

Interesting post AColonizer. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, you definitely have a different way of thinking of things.

Cheers,

Slavophile


We almost wrote the same matter, I could say we wrote the same post. Except for one word: respect.

I am usually a very loyalty and respectful man and I know what is the difference between the feeling called respect and the conformism called respect. And in the specific matter of P4P, unfortunately I always realize "more respect for a sex provider" always means "more fierce is her bargaining". Maybe we are talking of two different words, but the result of that so-called "respect" is always the same: be the loser in the P4P game. Most men don't realize that because they don't rationalize their P4P game into a material profit. But women do that for natural instinct.

Sure you are a good monger. Sure I am not good as you. But I would like to do something more. I try to avoid Eastern girls become as Western girls because Western men don't realize 100$/first hour is pure madness. I repeat, again and again, what my first super Ukrainian prostitute said to me years ago (already) she was paid according the time and not according the service, and in that working time she had to do everything a customer / a group of customers wants / want: she was just an object in the hands of unknown people, and she agreed that, knowingly...

Sorbonne
09-08-13, 17:52
Thanks for the detailed and informative report.

Perhaps because I've been away from this forum for a while, I had never thought of Cyprus as a p4p destination. Just didn't know the scene existed.

What I knew was that Cyrus was one of the popular destinations for Ukrainians. Indeed, I was invited by the Ukrainian girl I took to Moldives in 2011 to join her and her friend on vacation in Cyrus for 3 weeks this past May, but because I was about to leave for Asia at that time, I had to pass.

I have to wonder similar scenes exist in the Med coast of Turkey where Ukrainians frequent because a beach vacation with night time thrills sounds great to me.

Glad to be back here to prep for my upcoming trip to Kiev for the first time in over a year.


North Cyprus Adventure. Day 1.

Leaving Kiev is always hard. But this time I was going from Kiev to North Cyprus, which was also supposed to be full of EE hotties in the gentlemen's "nightclubs", in quality as good as one could get in Kiev, at a price as low as one could get in Kiev. At least this was the working premise that I had proposed to myself for testing on this trip. And this of course softened the sense of loss when a great adventure comes to an end. Because this adventure was really not even half over. And from what I had heard and read so far about North Cyprus, the adventure had every potential of getting even better!

Stopover at FKK Goldentime Vienna:

On Sunday, August 25, while en route from Kiev to Larnaca airport in south Cyprus, I had a stopover at Vienna from 8:30 AM until 8:30 PM, a long 12 hour all day stop. This longer stopover in Vienna was chosen deliberately so as to allow a nice long visit at one of the FKK's I have been enjoying from time to time.

See the details of my visit to FKK Goldentime Vienna at:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?621-Vienna&p=1465349&viewfull=1#post1465349

See the details of my visit to the nightclubs of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC) on the Cyprus thread at:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?641-Other-Areas&p=1465350&viewfull=1#post1465350

Conclusions:

Prices:

At the time of my visit to the TRNC, $1. 00 USD was equal to 2 Turkish Lira (TRY).

There were two areas in the TRNC that I was able to investigate on this trip:

(1) the Lapta Strip, a strip of clubs located within a kilometer or two of Club Guzelyali in the Lapta area near Kyrenia / Girne on the main road known as Guzelyali Cd in that area, and

(2) the Lefkosa Strip, a strip of clubs about 10 kilometers just to the West of the roundabout for the intersection of the Girne-Lefkosa (north-south road) highway with the Lefkosa-Guzelyurt highway (an east-west road) near the entrance to Lefkosa / Nicosia.

With regard to the prevalent 1 hour session prices being quoted in TRNC clubs, the clubs in the Lapta Strip tended to the rate of 150 TRY, and for some of the girls they are asking 200 TRY, whereas, in the clubs in the Lefkosa Strip, some clubs are asking 250 TRY, and sometimes 200 TRY.

For the sake of understanding the comparison, these prices are equivalent, in Dollars or Hryvna, to;

150 TRY = $75 USD = 600 UAH.

200 TRY=$100 USD=800 UAH.

250 TRY=$125 USD=1000 UAH.

As you can see, such prices are equivalent to normal Kiev prices one might be quoted in mamba. Ru or other escort websites like top-modals. Com, and others.

So the prices for 1 hour sessions are not lower in TRNC than in Kiev.

The multiple hour date:

Where one may notice a price advantage in the TRNC is with respect to the all night "programme" existing in the TRNC clubs, which begins at 1:00 AM and concludes at 9:00 AM. This is an eight (8) hour time period. The price is usually just double, or a little more than double, the 1 hour price.

Thus, for a girl whose 1 hour price is 150 Turkish Lira (TRY) , the "all night" 8 hour programme price from 1AM. 9 AM, is usually around 350 TRY, which is only $175!

Now, it is true that in Kiev too, there is also a very good "multiple hour discount" concept that is prevalent, that will often enable you to negotiate an "all night" fee that is quite reasonable. For example, if you are a very good negotiator, or if you are just lucky, a working girl who asks for 800 UAH ($100) for the first hour, might agree to 2 hours for 1200 UAH ($150) , or three hours for 1600 UAH ($200) , or all night for 2400 UAH ($300). But such things must be negotiated, and depend on various factors, and are not at all guaranteed.

By contrast, in TRNC, the "all night programme" of 8 hours, is an "institutionalized" and fixed low price. That price is just a bit more than double the 1 hour price. So that even in the "pricey" clubs in the Lefkosa Strip that charge 250 TRY for 1 hour, you can have an 8 hour all night programme with that girl for 500 TRY, which is $250. It's a fixed club price.

Or similarly, with regard to a daytime "programme" at one of the TRNC clubs, which can begin at 11:00AM and continue until 5:00 PM or 6:00 PM, usually at least 5 or 6 hours, the price will be somewhere between the 1 hour price and the all night programme price.

So for example, if the 1 hour price was 150 TRY, and the all night programme was 350 TRY, the daytime programme would likely be 250 TRY ($125). Again that would represent a very good value of 5 or 6 hours for only $125.

And even at a more pricey Lefkosa Strip club where the 1 hour price is 250 TRY, and the all night programme is 500 TRY, you might be asked a daytime programme price of 350 TRY or 400 TRY. Well. 400 TRY is $200. And $200 for 6 hours seems pretty reasonable.

Daytime Action:

Also, considering that for many mongers the late night hours of 3:00 AM. 7:00 AM are not their best hours for sexual activity, the option for these gentlemen to have a daytime programme is appealing.

So I think that with regard to prices, it is fair to say:

(1) that the price of a one hour session in TRNC clubs is similar to the price for the same in Kiev. But,

(2) that with regard to multiple hour all night or daytime dates, there is a price advantage in the TRNC over Kiev. In the TRNC the low price for such multiple hour day or night dates is already institutionalized and fixed by the club. In Kiev you can try and negotiate similarly low multiple hour date prices, but a result in Kiev as low as what is possible in the TRNC clubs is not guaranteed, or even necessarily likely.

Quality:

But what do you get for the 150 Turkish Lira you might spend for an hour in the clubs in the Lapta Strip?

Is there any difference in "quality" of beauty between the girls available in the Lapta Strip, and what you get for 600 UAH in Kiev from mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com or some other website with low prices?

Seeing the girls in advance:

To be honest, I was not that impressed by the line ups I saw in the catalogs of the clubs in the Lapta Strip and the Lefkosa Strip. However, there was the notable exception of several quite good looking girls I eventually came across in Monamour. There were also some photos in the catelogs at a few of the clubs in the Lefkosa Strip who were quite pretty, although they were not at the club and available when I was there. So there are a few pretty girls in the TRNC clubs, but you have to find them.

What this means is that in the TRNC, there are some pretty girls working in some of the clubs. It also means that it will take you a little work of visiting the various clubs and looking at their catelogs, and then looking at their line ups in actuality when they open the clubs at 8:30 PM and the girls appear on stage to do their strip dances, for you to be able to identify the really pretty girls and note where they are working.

Perhaps 150 Girls to Choose From:

There are six (6) clubs in the Lapta Strip: Monamour, Golden Girls, Saritaslar, Blue Night, Titanik, and Mak5im. There are another fifteen (15) clubs in the Lefkosa Strip: Imparator, Romantic, Bijax, Mexico, Lipstick, Nane, Florida, Freedom, Faraon, White Horse, Funky Girls, Hanedan, Harem, Playboy and Tutti Frutti. In total, in these two "easy to get to" strips of road where the clubs are located, there are a total of twenty-one (21) clubs.

(There are at least another five (5) more clubs in more outlying areas near Guzelyurt and Lefka that I have not included because they involve driving further out, but you can just extrapolate the total numbers of girls if you want to include these additional clubs in your calculations.)

Each club has between five to ten girls in its catalog. A rough estimate would be that there are a total of somewhere between 150. 200 girls working in these clubs. That is the pool of girls that one may choose from in the TRNC clubs in Lapta and Lefkosa, inclusive. It is a finite and not large pool of girls to choose from. In one or two days of visiting the clubs in the strips in Lapta and Lefkosa, you will be able to identify which of these 150. 200 girls is appealing to you, and at which clubs they are located. The majority of these 150. 200 girls were too plain of face, or too plump of body, to get me excited about them. But there were a few girls who looked pretty good, and some girls who looked downright excellent, but these were a small percentage of the whole.

Being able to see in advance what the girl looks like, like you can do in TRNC clubs, would seem to be a huge advantage over the Internet sites in Kiev, like mamba. Ru or top-modals. Com and others, where fake pictures are mostly used, and you must wait until the girl shows up at your doorstep to see what she actually looks like. And there is a distinct possibility that an unappealing girl will show up, and then you must send her back, and call for another girl. This hit or miss process that takes place in Kiev, until a girl arrives by chance who looks good enough to you, is very inefficient and wastes considerable time.

So, theoretically, being able to see in advance, before choosing, as you can do in TRNC clubs, cuts out a lot of the time waste that happens when using Kiev's fake picture Internet sites.

However, on the other hand, it is also necessary to invest considerable effort and time into visiting all the clubs and surveying what is available in the clubs of TRNC, because unfortunately the girls' photos are not up on the internet.

But once you invest a day or two into visiting all the clubs and seeing and making accurate notes as to which girls are where, you can simply devote your efforts to trying to secure the time you want to spend with each girl that you know you want.

Therefore, in order to benefit from the ability to see the girls in advance in TRNC, you will need sufficient time to first complete your one or two days of surveys of the clubs, and then sufficient additional time in TRNC to secure dates with the girls you want.

How much time is needed for doing this? This question brings me to the consideration of another factor that affects this process. Availability of girls.

The "Availability of Girls" factor:

The fact that there are a large number of Turkish men, including many young men, hopping between the clubs every day, eagerly seeking out the best pussy in the clubs in TRNC at the same time as you are trying to have a good time, means that there is a lot of male competition for securing time with the best girls.

Best girls get a lot of mileage:

It also means that the best girls are getting quite a bit of mileage during their six month contracts to work in these clubs. On a night programme for the 8 hours from 1:00 AM to 9:00 AM, the girls are expected to give sex three times to completion. In other words, the guy gets three pops. In addition to having sex those three times with the guy from the night programme, she may be booked for a day programme for another three pops. Then during the club's showtime from 9:00 PM to 1:00 AM, she is available for 1 hour sessions, and may get 2 or 3 of those. So it comes to being fucked up to about 8 times every day, although on the programmes it is the same one man fucking her three times that day, and it is possible that he may only fuck her two times instead of three. But the clientele at these clubs is for the most part young Turkish males who are very into sex and sport fucking. So I believe that the girls who look the best and are the hottest are getting fucked to the maximum amount of times their schedule allows, and they are being fucked by energetic young males, not older, perhaps more gentle mongers.

Now, these young Turks have a distinct advantage over you. They speak the same Turkish language as the club managers, and have the inside track as to getting preferential treatment by the club managers, both because they are Turkish, as well as because many of them are "regulars" in these clubs.

So what you are confronted with, in terms of availability of the hottest girls, is a scenario where when you ask the manager for a particular girl that you like, you are likely to be told that she has already been reserved by another man for the night programme, as well as she is already booked in advance for the next day's daytime programme. She may already also be booked for the couple of 1-hour bookings she can do during the club showtime between 9:00 PM-1:00 AM.

How far in advance can the Turkish guys pre-book the best girls? I don't know.

It may not happen all the time that some Turkish guy has pre-booked the girl you want. And you may be able to get a programme with the girl you want that evening, or the next afternoon, if you ask the manager to book it early on in the evening, let's say before 10:00 PM. But beating out the competition for the hottest girls, is a part of the challenge in TRNC.

And so this "competition" factor adds to the amount of time you must spend chasing your date with the hot girls you found at TRNC clubs that you want to spend time with.

So the answer to the question of how many days you need in order to be able to both first survey and identify where any hot girls might be located, and then to surmount the "competition" interference factor and get a date with the girl (s) you may want, depends on how much of a problem the "competition" factor is for the best girls.

Based on my own experiences during the three days I experimented with this issue, the only thing I can advise with a little bit of certainty, is that three days is not enough time to both survey the clubs and surmount the competition factor as to the hottest girls. On the days I visited the clubs surveying the situation and viewing the catelogs, the best looking girls in the catelogs were not to be found available in the clubs. They were out at some hotel, presumably on a programme. Getting them would obviously require coming back to the club at a later time and being able to secure an advance booking through the manager.

Therefore, I would advise a visit of up to a week to be able to take full advantage of getting dates with the hottest girls in all the clubs.

You should also avoid the mistake of delaying asking for a booking until the latter hours of the club's evening show time. If you wait until after 10:00 PM, all the good girls will likely be booked, even for a 1 hour date in the club.

Most probably, once you know who your sweetheart (s) is / are in a particular club (meaning you have already seen the girls on stage and know their actual appearance) , you should not even wait for the club to open, but rather you should try to book the girl in advance. That way, if you are told she is busy for that night's programme, or the next afternoon's programme, you will have the opportunity to try to book her for a programme the night or day after that, since it is obvious that advance bookings by others are what is getting in your way.

The girls are coming to work on six month contracts. Therefore, there is some stability to the line ups in the clubs, and it would seem reporting on this thread can be relied upon within those limits. Therefore, reports about good girls or good line ups are certain to be obsolete within six months, and probably sooner if the reporter visited the club in, let's say, the third month of the girls' contract. For example, in one club I visited, I was told that the three girls whose pictures I liked in the catelog, had just left the club having completed their contracts.

Therefore, for those planning to visit within the next two or maybe three months, I would advise to go straight to Monamour club in the Lapta area, and see if the conditions I saw still obtain. They had three or four very good looking girls. Once you make bookings with those hot girls at Monamour, you can go investigate the catelogs of the other clubs.

For visitors who might go to Cyprus more than two or three months from now, I suppose it is worth checking out Monamour. But more likely than not, it is back to the drawing board, and a full survey of the clubs to know where the hottest girls are working will be necessary. Unless of course there is some accurate reporting on the Cyprus thread that can help shorten the process.

Services:

With regard to services, uncovered BJ is standard in TRNC, just like it is in the FKK's of Germany, Austria, and Switzerland. In Kiev, it will depend on the girl, and most escorts in Kiev say up front "everything in Preservativ", which means a covered BJ. It is also often possible to negotiate this in Kiev, but it is not a guaranteed standard service, as in FKK's or in the TRNC clubs. The girls in the TRNC nightclubs are expected to give good service, and there is much more uniformity about this in TRNC, than in Kiev, where getting a GFE service is something of an art.

So I think a fair thing to say about an advantage the TRNC clubs have over Kiev, is that if you want to spend a low price like 150 TRY = $75= 600 UAH, and be pretty certain that you will get an uncovered natural BJ, then you can get that more certainly in TRNC than in Kiev, where it is not standard.

However, the appearance and looks of the girls at the clubs in the Lapta Strip who had such low prices, were mostly in the average level of looks, of girls in the range of 5's. 6's and a maybe a few 7's. The exception was two or three of the girls I saw at Monamour who I would rate as 7. 5.8. 0. But that is the result of pure chance as to which girls come from Moldova at any given time, and to which clubs they go, and if they are there at the time of your visit.

The line up will be entirely different within a few months, and another club may excel over Monamour in a short while. A case in point is what happened at Golden Girls, which received good reviews by TheKnight based on what he saw there at the time he last visited. Yet, at the time of my subsequent visit, a bunch of girls had just completed their contracts and left, and what remained at the club was not worth looking at.

I therefore must stop short of saying that you will definitely find very hot (by that I mean 8. 0 and above) girls in the clubs in the Lapta Strip, available at the rate of 150 Lira (600 UAH/$75). But there is a possibility of it. However, you will likely at least find some average looking girls who are doable.

There were definitely hot girls in some of the clubs in Lefkosa. They may not be available to you on the moment you happen to appear at a club. But if you have time to invest in it, you will probably ultimately get your turn with a popular girl if you get to clubs early, and try to book the girl early for the programme of the night or the next day, or even an hour at the club during the show time.

For example, now that I know of the existence of a few girls I like at this or that club, if I had more time in Cyprus, I could make it my business to be at her club right at opening time and secure a reservation to see her from the manager for the period of time I wanted her for. Or better yet, I would go to her club in the afternoon before the club opens and try to make an advance booking for time with that girl.

The issue I confronted on this trip was that I didn't have additional days to chase down a session with particular girls at Monamour club (Stella, Elena, Mina.). And having made my move to ask for a booking too late on the night I first saw her at the club and wanted her, she got booked by other guys right out from under me. It was the evening before I had to leave Cyprus, and so I had no additional days left to follow up on her and get a programme with her. So that is why I say that you will need a sufficient number of days to get to a girl, once you find her, if there is a lot of competition for her time.

Summation:

I think it is fair to say, on the plus side for TRNC clubs, that (1) GFE type services such as uncovered oral sex (BBBJ) are more standardized, and thus more available, at the TRNC clubs than in Kiev, (2) the night or day "programme" of multiple hour dates available in TRNC clubs has a lower net price per hour with a much steeper discount, than might be available for a similar multiple hours date in Kiev, and with more certainty than Kiev, because in TRNC such low prices are fixed club prices, whereas in Kiev a multiple hour discount rate must be negotiated in each case with no guaranteed outcome.

On the minus side for TRNC clubs, it is true that (3) there are relatively very few girls to choose from in the TRNC clubs (maybe 150-200 girls in total, most of whom are plain looking) , compared to the probably thousands of girls involved in p4p available in a place like Kiev, which of course increases your statistical likelihood of encountering working girls who are hot, and that (4) in TRNC there is interference in the form of "competition" from other men for the available time of each of the few actually hot looking girls as may exist in the TRNC clubs, in a form that you would not experience in Kiev.

Would I return? Yes, but not because it is a better mongering location than Kiev. It isn't. For me, TRNC lacks the higher level options that Kiev has if one is willing to pay a little more than base prices, when one goes to nightclubs or strip clubs. TRNC is simply much smaller than Kiev, with much less high level beauty p4p opportunity. However TRNC is a beautiful island and a good place to combine a nice restful type vacation with some mongering. And there are definitely good girls with excellent service to be had in TRNC, if you invest the effort to identify where they are, and exhibit persistence in trying to get time to enjoy being with them in order to beat out the competition of all the Turkish guys trying to fuck the same girls you want.

The high level of male competition is the same reason I never bothered with FKK Goldentime Bruggen, in Dusseldorf area, when I did FKK trips to Germany, preferring to stick with the Frankfurt area FKK's on days when there is no "Messe" business conventions. Goldentime is notorious for overcrowding and high male / female ratios, coupled with a shortage of rooms. I have never encountered that in FKK Oase and FKK Palace. The time I visited FKK Villa Vertigo in Dusseldorf area, the best girls were grabbed up immediately by the regulars, never to be seen that day again. I don't think it is productive to choose a location with a high level of male competition, when locations that do not suffer from this problem are easily available.

So if I would have to choose between Kiev and TRNC as a mongering destination, I would choose Kiev for the advantages it has over TRNC. However, if I was also looking for a nice vacation environment on a beautiful beach environment, I would definitely consider the extra expense involved in traveling to TRNC, knowing I could monger there with great service guaranteed and some really pretty girls I could get to with a little effort.

I would want to investigate the vacation potential of a place like Cyprus during the winter months. If it stays warm, like Miami Beach, then it is something to think about for that reason. But if it's too cold for the beach in the winter months in Cyprus, then I would analyze it in comparison to a place like Odessa, in terms of mongering opportunity in a summer vacation environment. Kiev is a city, and is not really comparable to a vacation beach resort type area.

Happy Mongering.

LJ

CastOnThis
09-08-13, 22:27
All this writing reminds me of my experience with a girl I took-out of Arena. Her name was Irina, and she was (20) and beautiful dark-hair.

But man, I had the worse experience with her. She was mad throughout the whole 2hr session. And she said, if I wanted her to stay, it would cost 1000usd for the whole day. The worst part is that when we were about to have sex. She told me she was a lesbian and couldn't do it; after I had already paid! I called her out on it. She then quieted down, but after wasting 90minutes arguing in the nude. She did give me bareback BJ, which wasn't bad. She also gave me herpes: type-1. I lucked out on not catching the second strain.

So, out of curiosity, would any of you have paid her the thousand?

JohnTodd
09-09-13, 01:52
Is there a site that shows the addresses of the salons in Kiev?

I used to use the map per this link: http://bitchmaps.com/kmz/sp.kmz

Unfortunately the map works, but the clubs, massage places, etc are gone.

Thanks

Sersem2007
09-09-13, 11:06
Is there a site that shows the addresses of the salons in Kiev?

I used to use the map per this link:

http://bitchmaps.com/kmz/sp.kmz

Unfortunately the map works, but the clubs, massage places, etc are gone.

ThanksHi. There is some info about salons I my-relax. Net. The most of them are just massage salons if you like real action then visit ambrasura. Price for 1 hour 800 grivna. Place not far from metro Zhitomirska. Hope it helps.

Uoykucf
09-09-13, 21:36
Took a taxi ride far away from the center on Saturday night looking for cheap young good-looking 400 UAH / hr pussies because some locals say it's too expensive in the center. 100 $/hr.

Saw some nice women dressed skantily in the dark of the night asking for 500 UAH but not 400, probably because of foreigner surcharge or the good-looking ones cost more. But they don't speak English.

If your car pulled close to the curb, they'd come over and you could get the taxi driver or your friend who speaks Russian to talk to them.

Cost of the taxi ride round trip was 100 UAH.

Uoykucf
09-09-13, 21:37
Sucks!

Went there on a Saturday night. No good-looking girls. Better off going to the streets. 50 UAH entry fee.

Uoykucf
09-09-13, 21:50
I had a 19 whyear old slim good-looking woman in my big luxury 3 bedroom apartment on Kreshatik for two hours for 500 UAH. Since she was 100% real GFE and did more than I expected, I gave her 800 UAH.


We almost wrote the same matter, I could say we wrote the same post. Except for one word: respect.

I am usually a very loyalty and respectful man and I know what is the difference between the feeling called respect and the conformism called respect. And in the specific matter of P4P, unfortunately I always realize "more respect for a sex provider" always means "more fierce is her bargaining". Maybe we are talking of two different words, but the result of that so-called "respect" is always the same: be the loser in the P4P game. Most men don't realize that because they don't rationalize their P4P game into a material profit. But women do that for natural instinct.

Sure you are a good monger. Sure I am not good as you. But I would like to do something more. I try to avoid Eastern girls become as Western girls because Western men don't realize 100$/first hour is pure madness. I repeat, again and again, what my first super Ukrainian prostitute said to me years ago (already) she was paid according the time and not according the service, and in that working time she had to do everything a customer / a group of customers wants / want: she was just an object in the hands of unknown people, and she agreed that, knowingly. This was the real system of Soviet prostitution with Slavic customers. In fact, when Slavic prostitutes come to Western countries, the sex and the men are so mild as much as their work becomes also a pleasure, and even Slavic prostitutes find men willing to pay any amount: what a woman can ask more?..

JohnTodd
09-10-13, 02:11
I had a 19 whyear old slim good-looking woman in my big luxury 3 bedroom apartment on Kreshatik for two hours for 500 UAH. Since she was 100% real GFE and did more than I expected, I gave her 800 UAH.I will be in Kiev this weekend, If you can share contact details that would be appreciated. I will stay at the Palace Hotel, not sure how close that is to the location you mention.

JohnTodd
09-10-13, 02:13
Hi. There is some info about salons I my-relax. Net. The most of them are just massage salons if you like real action then visit ambrasura. Price for 1 hour 800 grivna. Place not far from metro Zhitomirska. Hope it helps.Where is Ambrasura?

Does anyone know if there is a map of Kiev with addresses of Salons and Massage places?

Thanks

Sersem2007
09-10-13, 10:05
Where is Ambrasura?

Does anyone know if there is a map of Kiev with addresses of Salons and Massage places?

ThanksHi. The website of ambrasura.

http://my-relax.net/salon/ambrazura/out_paid/

You have to call them and they give you address. They on top modals too if you serching in price of 800 grivnas. The plaice is in dead end road nearly zhitomiska staition, and picture of girls done in actually same building.

Starchild2012
09-10-13, 17:02
Starchild, you are wrong, and you know it. After all your posts in the SEA sections, you surprise me. I have no idea behind the real reason why you write like this, but it is far from a fair evaluation of these options. Maybe you had a stretch of bad luck in SEA, but to lay this out as general advice is very misleading. Mongering in SEA is at large like taking candy from kids. To claim anything else is nonsense.

BarbaI think you misinterpreted what I wrote. My post was never wrote women but SCAMs. I'm Asian myself and I think I know my kind well. I was largely referring to the way tourist are treated in SEA compared to the dangers a newbie tourist could face in Ukraine.

Yes. It is easier to get laid in SEA but the traps are higher.

Just go here

www.pattayaone.net

http://farangdeath.tumblr.com/

The number of foreigners getting murdered, scammed in SEA is far far higher than Asians getting murdered in all of Europe. If Asians died the way Europeans tourists are getting killed in SEA. There would be call for UN intervention, special laws passed to protect Asian tourist in Europe, racism accusations and what not.

I have read all of general info and more than 200 pages of Kiev thread and just to compare it to Thai forum in ISG. Its a laugh.

Some guy said to me that due to racism in Ukraine its hard for Indians to get laid. After researching further, what Indians get in ukraine is far safer and less scammer than what they are getting in SEA.

Ok. If my post was misleading. I'm sorry for it. But. If that is the case. I humbly request all newbies to read past 100+ pages of Kiev and 100+ pages of Bangkok in ISG itself and reach your own conclusion on which place would be safer for you. Good luck

Guntherus
09-11-13, 01:39
I had a 19 whyear old slim good-looking woman in my big luxury 3 bedroom apartment on Kreshatik for two hours for 500 UAH. Since she was 100% real GFE and did more than I expected, I gave her 800 UAH.Someone finding this kind of girl should be congratulated. Someone spoiling her with big overpayment in a high-lux apartment should be rebuked. Not only will she raise her price, but also tell her friends on the street, where she presumably works. Please stop this foolish generosity. There are plenty of other ways to tell her we like her. And actually, recent experience tell me that if I pay my girls less than they expected, they all the more cling to me, texting me and sending messages and emails asking to meet again and more often. So, the moral of the story is, no I've said enough) no offence, I hope. R. Buzz

Sponsor74
09-11-13, 21:21
Took a taxi ride far away from the center on Saturday night looking for cheap young good-looking 400 UAH / hr pussies because some locals say it's too expensive in the center. 100 $/hr.

Saw some nice women dressed skantily in the dark of the night asking for 500 UAH but not 400, probably because of foreigner surcharge or the good-looking ones cost more. But they don't speak English.

If your car pulled close to the curb, they'd come over and you could get the taxi driver or your friend who speaks Russian to talk to them.

Cost of the taxi ride round trip was 100 UAH.Could you please give more details of this place street and time to find these girls? Thanks

Clement Mic
09-12-13, 02:56
Someone finding this kind of girl should be congratulated. Someone spoiling her with big overpayment in a high-lux apartment should be rebuked. Not only will she raise her price, but also tell her friends on the street, where she presumably works. Please stop this foolish generosity. There are plenty of other ways to tell her we like her. And actually, recent experience tell me that if I pay my girls less than they expected, they all the more cling to me, texting me and sending messages and emails asking to meet again and more often. So, the moral of the story is, no I've said enough) no offence, I hope. R. BuzzExactly, it is because of people like him that the price are so higher now.

Climaxnow
09-12-13, 11:16
I had a fun time at Caribbean Club last night. Good show and the place was filled with older guys, some young hotties, and many milfs. What I did not understand was the fact most girls were obviously prostitutes but made no direct effort to solicit themselves. It was as if they were there to have fun and not look for customers. All the girls were very unguarded and open to talking to anybody. Anyone care to explain to me why no direct selling in there? Is this club code they are following or this is where these girls go to mostly have fun?

So it's 4:00 am and I decide to leave. I got really turned on because many of the girls were clearly drunk on the dance floor. Super hot early twenty something with really short skirt starts dancing with her panties completely exposed. Gave me quite the boner. As I walk out to the street, I saw to two milfs (both younger than thirty) from the dance floor walking towards the subway. I approached and told them I was scared to walk alone in there and they both took my hands and we walked together. I am not a fan of milfs but both girls towered over me in there heels and both were drunk and very feminine with girly voices. Yes they were prostitutes and the conversation quickly turned to if I we could all sleep together. Oddly, not for that night, they wanted to meet up another day. So here we are all by ourselves in a subway and my hormones just started raging as I started touching there asses. I don't know what got into to me but I pulled out 400 grivna and asked one of the girls if she would suck my dick. She dropped straight to her knees and grabbed my dick like she wanted it more than me. I grabbed the other one and played with her stomach and boobs while the other one was bobbing up and down on my dick. I blew my load into her mouth in about three minutes. Caribbean Club was good time.

El Cubanito
09-12-13, 13:07
I think you misinterpreted what I wrote. My post was never wrote women but SCAMs. I'm Asian myself and I think I know my kind well. I was largely referring to the way tourist are treated in SEA compared to the dangers a newbie tourist could face in Ukraine.

Yes. It is easier to get laid in SEA but the traps are higher.

Just go here.

www.pattayaone.net

http://farangdeath.tumblr.com/

The number of foreigners getting murdered, scammed in SEA is far far higher than Asians getting murdered in all of Europe. If Asians died the way Europeans tourists are getting killed in SEA. There would be call for UN intervention, special laws passed to protect Asian tourist in Europe, racism accusations and what not.

I have read all of general info and more than 200 pages of Kiev thread and just to compare it to Thai forum in ISG. Its a laugh.

Some guy said to me that due to racism in Ukraine its hard for Indians to get laid. After researching further, what Indians get in ukraine is far safer and less scammer than what they are getting in SEA.

Ok. If my post was misleading. I'm sorry for it. But. If that is the case. I humbly request all newbies to read past 100+ pages of Kiev and 100+ pages of Bangkok in ISG itself and reach your own conclusion on which place would be safer for you. Good luckGuys, what he is trying to do is scare everybody from going to Thailand. He wants to keep all of the girls for himself. Truth be told there is enough girl for everybody and alot of the girls just want to be treated right, if you do right you will be rewarded.

HotStud251
09-12-13, 13:31
Accidents do happen but life doesn't stop go guys go Thailand and enjoy life.

Be safe!


Guys, what he is trying to do is scare everybody from going to Thailand. He wants to keep all of the girls for himself. Truth be told there is enough girl for everybody and alot of the girls just want to be treated right, if you do right you will be rewarded.

OwaRunner
09-12-13, 20:41
I had a fun time at Caribbean Club last night. Good show and the place was filled with older guys, some young hotties, and many milfs. What I did not understand was the fact most girls were obviously prostitutes but made no direct effort to solicit themselves. It was as if they were there to have fun and not look for customers. All the girls were very unguarded and open to talking to anybody. Anyone care to explain to me why no direct selling in there? Is this club code they are following or this is where these girls go to mostly have fun?

So it's 4:00 am and I decide to leave. I got really turned on because many of the girls were clearly drunk on the dance floor. Super hot early twenty something with really short skirt starts dancing with her panties completely exposed. Gave me quite the boner. As I walk out to the street, I saw to two milfs (both younger than thirty) from the dance floor walking towards the subway. I approached and told them I was scared to walk alone in there and they both took my hands and we walked together. I am not a fan of milfs but both girls towered over me in there heels and both were drunk and very feminine with girly voices. Yes they were prostitutes and the conversation quickly turned to if I we could all sleep together. Oddly, not for that night, they wanted to meet up another day. So here we are all by ourselves in a subway and my hormones just started raging as I started touching there asses. I don't know what got into to me but I pulled out 400 grivna and asked one of the girls if she would suck my dick. She dropped straight to her knees and grabbed my dick like she wanted it more than me. I grabbed the other one and played with her stomach and boobs while the other one was bobbing up and down on my dick. I blew my load into her mouth in about three minutes. Caribbean Club was good time.This was a nice report, is this first time you see this type of action at Caribbean Club / other Kiev clubs? I will travel there soon, and this look like a nice place to start.

Best regards,

Owarunner

Soren60
09-13-13, 10:46
I had a fun time at Caribbean Club last night. Good show and the place was filled with older guys, some young hotties, and many milfs. What I did not understand was the fact most girls were obviously prostitutes but made no direct effort to solicit themselves. It was as if they were there to have fun and not look for customers. All the girls were very unguarded and open to talking to anybody. Anyone care to explain to me why no direct selling in there? Is this club code they are following or this is where these girls go to mostly have fun?

So it's 4:00 am and I decide to leave. I got really turned on because many of the girls were clearly drunk on the dance floor. Super hot early twenty something with really short skirt starts dancing with her panties completely exposed. Gave me quite the boner. As I walk out to the street, I saw to two milfs (both younger than thirty) from the dance floor walking towards the subway. I approached and told them I was scared to walk alone in there and they both took my hands and we walked together. I am not a fan of milfs but both girls towered over me in there heels and both were drunk and very feminine with girly voices. Yes they were prostitutes and the conversation quickly turned to if I we could all sleep together. Oddly, not for that night, they wanted to meet up another day. So here we are all by ourselves in a subway and my hormones just started raging as I started touching there asses. I don't know what got into to me but I pulled out 400 grivna and asked one of the girls if she would suck my dick. She dropped straight to her knees and grabbed my dick like she wanted it more than me. I grabbed the other one and played with her stomach and boobs while the other one was bobbing up and down on my dick. I blew my load into her mouth in about three minutes. Caribbean Club was good time.Interesting report.

Tell us more about Caribbean. What day did you go there? Weekend?

Can you sit at a table free of charge? At VodkaBar they asked me for thousens of grivna.

Is smoking allowed inside?

Did the girls you meet speak english? How much did they charge for sex?

Sorbonne
09-14-13, 08:57
Whoever answer the phone (067-500-2070) speak English?

Thanks.


Hi. The website of ambrasura.

http://my-relax.net/salon/ambrazura/out_paid/

You have to call them and they give you address. They on top modals too if you serching in price of 800 grivnas. The plaice is in dead end road nearly zhitomiska staition, and picture of girls done in actually same building.

Climaxnow
09-14-13, 10:42
Interesting report.

Tell us more about Caribbean. What day did you go there? Weekend?

Can you sit at a table free of charge? At VodkaBar they asked me for thousens of grivna.

Is smoking allowed inside?

Did the girls you meet speak english? How much did they charge for sex?The thing about Caribbean that I liked was the sense that girls went there to "qualify" a guy and possibly see him later for a "gift". No glam models, but a lot of attractive next door girls. I went on Wednesday and did not inquire about tables. Bar stools were available for anybody that just wanted to sit. I think they banned smoking in clubs over a year ago in Kiev. Very disappointing, I enjoyed the smoke filled rooms a year and a half ago. Seems every girl that wants to survive in Kiev knows basic English. I never made a direct inquiry to sex in the bar. However, when I walked into the subway and the girls asked me if we could all sleep together, I said "sure" and "how much". I was quoted $100 a girl. Reasonable price, but one had a see section scar and the other had a weird belly fat. I would probably not be interested unless I was drunk.

MarkyMark81
09-14-13, 20:15
One of the first things that struck me in Kiev was the face of disappointment on the young slick twenty somethings freshly arrived from Western Europe. They were worthless to the local girls because most young attractive guys don't monger and the girls all know it. Most young guys looking to party are better off staying home where they stand a true chance of finding somebody interested in them even for just one night stand. Kiev girls think of their pussy as a profit center and have no interest giving it away to some weekend yahoo. What a great feeling it was to get more looks than the young guy!

I had this preconceived notion that Ukraine would be like Riga twelve years. FUCK NO! Completely different dynamics at play.Not trying to be a dick, and I certainly agree that there are many golddiggers in Kiev.

However, I would definitely also say that in a capital such as Kiev, everyone can find what they are looking for. Whatever it may be.

Although the setting can be worse or better depending on the circumstances.

If you want to go out and meet "normal" girls, it is not an excuse to fail doing so, just to be aware of the fact that many are working girls.

And sure, paying helps a lot, but if a young guy also wants to pay, it would probably be to his advantage, or not of any importance (it can not be negative anyway) that he looks nice.

I am 31 by the way, and just reflecting on this. I am going to Kiev for both meeting working girls and just socialize with normal girls.

I met some girls on mamba that have no intention on working as any escorts. So, I would not be worried to go to Kiev either way, whatever you may want to find.

Starchild2012
09-15-13, 06:07
Guys, what he is trying to do is scare everybody from going to Thailand. He wants to keep all of the girls for himself. Truth be told there is enough girl for everybody and alot of the girls just want to be treated right, if you do right you will be rewarded.Hahaha. That's hilarious.

Dude. Why don't you please first read my post before making assumptions.

Here from my original post

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1465386&viewfull=1#post1465386

-

I found after reading so many post. Compare to South East Asia. For mongers. Ukraine, Russia, EE seems to be a tough environment for that soft touch and love. Its more business like with less emotions compared to the post one reads in Thailand thread. Where its more personal and emotions involved. Even though I read very very less scams compared to Thailand where one gets pushed and ends up dead in the end.

I'm not comparing this with how many women you can have and costs.

I feel even though SEA may be far easier to get laid with more options and sheer number of women due to population. Ukraine seems more honest with less scams.

-

Now. Where did I mention that you can't get laid in Thailand infact I said you can more in Thailand. Again. I only compared with the CRIME in Thailand against tourist than Ukraine.

Now, even If I go with your assumption. On the face of it. Its impossible for a single person to corner all the girls in Thailand.

Also,

I got to be the biggest retard on the planet to think. If I post in Ukraine thread. People will not go to Thailand anymore and I can get all the women. If that was my motive. I should have posted this in German FKK forum, UK forum, where the traffic is more and more tourist go from those countries.

If I had some motive. Why in the world would I write something like that in Ukraine forum, which is not even thatpopular in view count and not in other threads like FKK forum which has far higher view count and. Check my old posts. I have not spammed any threads what so ever for tourist to not come to Thailand.

If what you say is right about my post. Show me the proof on what basis you can write that. When I have not written anywhere in ISG for members to not go to Thailand. And why would I choose Ukraine thread out of 100 other threads that are more popular. So logic would dictate that. For my mission to be successful. I should post in other threads as well. Which I have not done and also. I have 900+ posts. Why now. Why not earlier and risk my membership by writing disinfo.

THINK. Why would someone do it in a Kiev thread if what you wrote was my motive. And not in FKK forum or UK, Canada thread from where most tourist go to Thailand.

I had an epiphany that universe called on me and said. If you want all the girls in Thailand. All you go to do is write a post in Kiev thread and all will be yours. And I did not question the ridiculousness of it as I was a retard to follow the universe and post it. And the irony is. I'm still at home. Writing useless replies as I'm yet to get laid to a Thai women.

Its sad the world we live in. If someone tries make a point. Its all looked with suspicion with some hidden motive. Yet its hilarious to think. If one writes in Kiev thread, he can have all Thai women in the world. Hahaha. El Cubanito I will let you know. When I will have all the Thai girls to myself. Just wait for a while.

Cruiser D
09-15-13, 14:59
Have you been to Ukraine? To Kiev? No? To Thailand?

If the answer is no why are you venturing any sort of opinion on it at all?


Hahaha.

Dude making assumptions.

-

I found after reading so many post. Compare to South East Asia. For mongers. Ukraine, Russia, EE seems to be a tough environment for that soft touch and love. Its more business like with less emotions compared to the post one reads in Thailand thread. Where its more personal and emotions involved. Even though I read very very less scams compared to Thailand where one gets pushed and ends up dead in the end.

Cruiser D
09-15-13, 21:42
You don't need a guide when you go to Kiev. You don't even need to be a savvy traveler to go to Kiev any more. However if you are extremely lazy, social awkward or have more money then you know what to do with it might make sense. For your first trip only!

Really, how difficult is it to go up to a girl in D'Lux or any of the other foreign orientated places Alex will take you to and say $200 or $300? The girls in these place either speak / understand English or will have a girlfriend who does.


I just returned from Alex! I guess I'm his best client. There is so much to do Alex!

Climaxnow
09-16-13, 09:58
My first time there, it was fun. All kinds of b**s in this place. Filled with foreign trash, but not a problem. You can smoke here. I pushed myself into somebodies boobs to get a cheap feel and she reciprocated with a scrotum squeeze. I shall return.

Uoykucf
09-16-13, 10:46
You don't need a guide when you go to Kiev. You don't even need to be a savvy traveler to go to Kiev any more. However if you are extremely lazy, social awkward or have more money then you know what to do with it might make sense. For your first trip only!

Really, how difficult is it to go up to a girl in D'Lux or any of the other foreign orientated places Alex will take you to and say $200 or $300? The girls in these place either speak / understand English or will have a girlfriend who does.I am an example of the idiots you are talking about.

I didn't need a guide in Kiev.

You just need more cum; so you can keep on cumming.

Let's face it; many of us can afford a guide but we just don't want one.

Unless the guide has a young pussy and you can get inside her pussy.

I think it's stupid to pay a guide while you can use that money to a better end.

Cheers.

Uoykucf
09-16-13, 10:49
Could you please give more details of this place street and time to find these girls? ThanksHi,

I had no idea which streets we were on because I know nothing about Russian.

The time we went was about 9:30 to 10:00PM Sat. Because we didn't want slim pickings.

All I know was the taxi driver drove about 25 to 30 min. From the Basarabka side of Kreshatik; then took us back.

The taxi driver also had a stack of cards giving to me

But I returned them to him as I don't plan to use those cards. Kind prefer to hunt on my own.

Uoykucf
09-16-13, 11:00
Someone finding this kind of girl should be congratulated. Someone spoiling her with big overpayment in a high-lux apartment should be rebuked. Not only will she raise her price, but also tell her friends on the street, where she presumably works. Please stop this foolish generosity. There are plenty of other ways to tell her we like her. And actually, recent experience tell me that if I pay my girls less than they expected, they all the more cling to me, texting me and sending messages and emails asking to meet again and more often. So, the moral of the story is, no I've said enough) no offence, I hope. R. BuzzIt's not an overpayment really.

Orginally we agreed on 800;

Then I negotiate the price down to 500.

At the end of the meeting, I decide to give her 800.

I guess my little head was still thinking.

Uoykucf
09-16-13, 11:07
I had a 19 years old slim good-looking woman in my big luxury 3 bedroom apartment on Kreshatik for two hours for 500 UAH. Since she was 100% real GFE and did more than I expected, I gave her 800 UAH.
Someone finding this kind of girl should be congratulated. Someone spoiling her with big overpayment in a high-lux apartment should be rebuked. Not only will she raise her price, but also tell her friends on the street, where she presumably works. Please stop this foolish generosity. There are plenty of other ways to tell her we like her. And actually, recent experience tell me that if I pay my girls less than they expected, they all the more cling to me, texting me and sending messages and emails asking to meet again and more often. So, the moral of the story is, no I've said enough) no offence, I hope. R. Buzz
It's not an overpayment really.

Orginally we agreed on 800;

Then I negotiate the price down to 500.

At the end of the meeting, I decide to give her 800.

I guess my little head was still thinking.BTW, I really don't care about GFE;

I really just want hardcore sex.

And I got some.

GFE is a waste of time, IMHO.

And therefore.

Uoykucf
09-16-13, 11:28
Someone finding this kind of girl should be congratulated. Someone spoiling her with big overpayment in a high-lux apartment should be rebuked. Not only will she raise her price, but also tell her friends on the street, where she presumably works. Please stop this foolish generosity. There are plenty of other ways to tell her we like her. And actually, recent experience tell me that if I pay my girls less than they expected, they all the more cling to me, texting me and sending messages and emails asking to meet again and more often. So, the moral of the story is, no I've said enough) no offence, I hope. R. Buzz
Exactly, it is because of people like him that the price are so higher now.Dear Clement,

Truthfully, it's the guys went to RIO, the now defunct river boat and places that pushed up the prices for your guys!

They paid minimum 1600 UAH. 2400UAH and upwards for 2 to 3 hours!

Many guys even paid 800 to 1000 UAH per hour for Topmodel girls.

And many others paid least 600 per hour for mamba girls.

Many girls asked me for 1600 UAH to 2400 UAH.

But I rejected them.

You see, I am really keeping the prices down for you guys and being considerate of not pushing up prices for our mongering brothers.

I hope all you guys can do the same, don't spoil the girls and keep the prices down for years to come.

On this initial trip, I really have been doing very well price-wise for you guys. I mean a miserly, not even. 400 UAH per hour of great sex with a good-looking 19 year old.

It's not an overpayment.

Uoykucf
09-16-13, 11:46
Someone finding this kind of girl should be congratulated. Someone spoiling her with big overpayment in a high-lux apartment should be rebuked. Not only will she raise her price, but also tell her friends on the street, where she presumably works. Please stop this foolish generosity. There are plenty of other ways to tell her we like her. And actually, recent experience tell me that if I pay my girls less than they expected, they all the more cling to me, texting me and sending messages and emails asking to meet again and more often. So, the moral of the story is, no I've said enough) no offence, I hope. R. Buzz
Exactly, it is because of people like him that the price are so higher now.
Dear Clement,

Truthfully, it's the guys went to RIO, the now defunct river boat and places that pushed up the prices for your guys!

They paid minimum 1600 UAH. 2400UAH and upwards for 2 to 3 hours!

Many guys even paid 800 to 1000 UAH per hour for Topmodel girls.

And many others paid least 600 per hour for mamba girls.

Many girls asked me for 1600 UAH to 2400 UAH.

But I rejected them.

You see, I am really keeping the prices down for you guys and being considerate of not pushing up prices for our mongering brothers.

I hope all you guys can do the same, don't spoil the girls and keep the prices down for years to come.

On this initial trip, I really have been doing very well price-wise for you guys. I mean a miserly, not even. 400 UAH per hour of great sex with a good-looking 19 year old.

It's not an overpayment.Dear Roll Buzz and Clement,

You know, what I am going to do for you guys.

I am going to even out what you refered to as "overpayment" by giving her only 200 when she comes tomorrow.

But I have a feeling she's not going to like it.

Let's see what happens.

Cheers.

DoctorOral
09-16-13, 15:12
Yes, I liked

Guntherus
09-16-13, 16:03
Hi Uoykucf. Given this new information, I revise my remark. I confess that my ass got burned once by sending girls money in advance. Same by giving bonus payment after meeting. This really does nothing but spoil the girl's attitude. There are better ways to make her feel special and grateful to you. Let's say the girl needed money for rent, and as soon as she has enough, she will stop seeing you. Time for her is not so important as money. Better have her several times (like you now tell us you plan to do) , or refer you to another girl. And of course I am guilty of overpaying girls sometimes in the past. But never more. If she has agreed and seems happy with this agreement. But when negotiating the price, I always have the feeling that I get bad service. So, in the end, I think you handled correctly. Enjoy your time! Roll B.


It's not an overpayment really.

Orginally we agreed on 800;

Then I negotiate the price down to 500.

At the end of the meeting, I decide to give her 800.

I guess my little head was still thinking.

OwaRunner
09-16-13, 21:27
Yes, I likedNot bad, what was the price?

BR.

OwaRunner

Member #4491
09-18-13, 00:52
I had a fun time at Caribbean Club last night. Good show and the place was filled with older guys, some young hotties, and many milfs. What I did not understand was the fact most girls were obviously prostitutes but made no direct effort to solicit themselves. It was as if they were there to have fun and not look for customers. All the girls were very unguarded and open to talking to anybody.Great report CN. And what a great end to your evening at Caribbean. The night when I was there with Mr Knight, there where few guests, but the atmosphere was pretty much the same. The WGs danced and enjoyed with us, themselves and just about anyone that was up for it. No angry birds there. Maybe it is the Latin music?

Starchild, I know very well your Indian and IMHO you are full of it with these posts. LOL. No offense meant. I just have a totally different opinion from my 50+ trips to the countries you mentioned. Let us just drop it and agree to disagree.

Barba

Member #4491
09-18-13, 00:58
I went on Wednesday and did not inquire about tables. Bar stools were available for anybody that just wanted to sit. I think they banned smoking in clubs over a year ago in Kiev.We had a bottle of wine and a shisha / galian / waterpipe and sat at a table. The table itself did not cost us anything.

B

Member #4491
09-18-13, 01:22
H.

I found after reading so many post. Compare to South East Asia. For mongers. Ukraine, Russia, EE seems to be a tough environment for that soft touch and love. Its more business like with less emotions compared to the post one reads in Thailand thread. Where its more personal and emotions involved. Even though I read very very less scams compared to Thailand where one gets pushed and ends up dead in the end.

I feel even though SEA may be far easier to get laid with more options and sheer number of women due to population. Ukraine seems more honest with less scams.I read somewhere that only Honduras was more lethal to US tourists than Thailand, but traffic is the number one problem. Traffic, diseases, drowning, drugs or night club fights seems to be the biggest problems if you look into statistics covering the death of tourists. Scams is not so easily investigated by looking into statistics. If we consider the whole globe, I passed 100 trips where the hobby was pursued in some form. Sometimes just for an hour or two, and sometimes for several weeks. Many here are way more well traveled than me, and will know more about many destinations in the world, but I do absolutely not recognize my experiences at all in your statements, Starchild. Thailand is just so simple and convenient. You pay, they smile. For sure they are business oriented, but they are also pragmatic and implement a system that works reasonably well for everyone. Killing, hurting or scamming the customers is not an intended part of that system. I think you should visit these places and make up your own first hand opinion, Starchild. In any case, I am off to Asia again, so over and out on this topic.

All the best from Barba.

Sorbonne
09-18-13, 11:05
I had a fun time at Caribbean Club last night. Good show and the place was filled with older guys, some young hotties, and many milfs. What I did not understand was the fact most girls were obviously prostitutes but made no direct effort to solicit themselves. It was as if they were there to have fun and not look for customers. All the girls were very unguarded and open to talking to anybody. Anyone care to explain to me why no direct selling in there? Is this club code they are following or this is where these girls go to mostly have fun?

So it's 4:00 am and I decide to leave. I got really turned on because many of the girls were clearly drunk on the dance floor. Super hot early twenty something with really short skirt starts dancing with her panties completely exposed. Gave me quite the boner. As I walk out to the street, I saw to two milfs (both younger than thirty) from the dance floor walking towards the subway. I approached and told them I was scared to walk alone in there and they both took my hands and we walked together. I am not a fan of milfs but both girls towered over me in there heels and both were drunk and very feminine with girly voices. Yes they were prostitutes and the conversation quickly turned to if I we could all sleep together. Oddly, not for that night, they wanted to meet up another day. So here we are all by ourselves in a subway and my hormones just started raging as I started touching there asses. I don't know what got into to me but I pulled out 400 grivna and asked one of the girls if she would suck my dick. She dropped straight to her knees and grabbed my dick like she wanted it more than me. I grabbed the other one and played with her stomach and boobs while the other one was bobbing up and down on my dick. I blew my load into her mouth in about three minutes. Caribbean Club was good time.

I'm having a drink right now and am not sure if I'm drunk, but I'd like to understand what Climaxnow is saying here correctly. What do you mean by "subway"? The girl didn't drop to her knees in a running metro, did she? I don't think the Kiev metro runs at 4 am, so by "subway" you mean an underground walkway that you often see in Kiev? I remember one that led to the River Palace from the Dnipro metro station. It was scary. In any case it is still hard to believe that that kind of action took place in an underground walkway. It reminds me of some French movie I've seen years ago...

Uoykucf
09-18-13, 11:47
Hi Roll Buzz,

Thanks.

These girls are tricky.

I've a lot yet learn from you guys.

I RTFF all the way back to 2008 before I took this trip;

So I'the like to think I know what I am doing but sometimes the little head gets in the way.

Cheers


Hi Uoykucf. Given this new information, I revise my remark. I confess that my ass got burned once by sending girls money in advance. Same by giving bonus payment after meeting. This really does nothing but spoil the girl's attitude. There are better ways to make her feel special and grateful to you. Let's say the girl needed money for rent, and as soon as she has enough, she will stop seeing you. Time for her is not so important as money. Better have her several times (like you now tell us you plan to do) , or refer you to another girl. And of course I am guilty of overpaying girls sometimes in the past. But never more. If she has agreed and seems happy with this agreement. But when negotiating the price, I always have the feeling that I get bad service. So, in the end, I think you handled correctly. Enjoy your time! Roll B.

Uoykucf
09-18-13, 11:54
Dear Roll Buzz and Clement,

You know, what I am going to do for you guys.

I am going to even out what you refered to as "overpayment" by giving her only 200 when she comes tomorrow.

But I have a feeling she's not going to like it.

Let's see what happens.

Cheers.She came back yesterday afternoon, I did what you said to keep the price down for everyone; so I gave her 200 this time to even it out. She stayed for 2 and 1/2 hours and this time was even better, real GFE and porn star sex right out of the movies. But guess what she wasn't happy and she said there won't be next time! She complained: 'You sexed me and blah blah. ' It was very unpleasant.

Well, she did suck my cock on the wing chair, and I did f*ck her on the huge boardroom dining table, on the love seat, on the sectional couch in the livingroom and ended up in one of the three bedrooms with more f*cking and DFK, with ending right out of the porno movies.

Probably can't see her anymore, but I did even it out with last time in order to keep the prices down for you guys. I can only hope everyone else on this board will do the same to keep the prices down for all you guys out there in the years to come.

Cheers

Climaxnow
09-18-13, 12:48
I'm having a drink right now and am not sure if I'm drunk, but I'd like to understand what Climaxnow is saying here correctly. What do you mean by "subway"? The girl didn't drop to her knees in a running metro, did she? I don't think the Kiev metro runs at 4 am, so by "subway" you mean an underground walkway that you often see in Kiev? I remember one that led to the River Palace from the Dnipro metro station. It was scary. In any case it is still hard to believe that that kind of action took place in an underground walkway. It reminds me of some French movie I've seen years ago.The underground passage immediately at the corner of Caribbean. No, she did not drop her knees on hard concrete, my point was she dropped with out hesitation when I offered the money. Not really much of a conquest, she was a prostitute and we were alone in a tunnel at 4 am.

This was actually a poor decision on my part. Before I entered the passage, I noticed the streets were completely empty and figured I had about 5 minutes before someone else could walk in. I already knew what was going to happen in there. But really, I live 5 minutes from Caribbean. I should have walked her up to my apartment and played with her in my foyer and not risk a militsia shakedown.

Climaxnow
09-18-13, 14:43
Last night at Vodka Bar, a group of of Indian girls walked in. The Ukrainian girls gave them such hard stares of WTF you doing in here. Nothing from the Ukrainian guys. It was interesting because some of the Ukrainian girls seemed sweet and all of a sudden you could see the hatred in their eyes. Surprising, not expecting that.

OwaRunner
09-18-13, 17:45
Last night at Vodka Bar, a group of of Indian girls walked in. The Ukrainian girls gave them such hard stares of WTF you doing in here. Nothing from the Ukrainian guys. It was interesting because some of the Ukrainian girls seemed sweet and all of a sudden you could see the hatred in their eyes. Surprising, not expecting that.That was tourist right? There are none Indian working girls?

Best regards.

Owarunner.

In Kiev 11-13 October.

Climaxnow
09-18-13, 21:06
That was tourist right? There are none Indian working girls?

Best regards.

Owarunner.

In Kiev 11-13 October.They were the most obvious foreigners in the bar. Short with very stocky physiques. They lasted about 15 minutes before hitting the exit.

Sean EZ
09-19-13, 19:56
Sorry couldn't help commenting after seeing this post. I think London UK might be the best place to get working Indian girls. I had zero luck (though I know it's possible) to get P4P in Mumbai.


They were the most obvious foreigners in the bar. Short with very stocky physiques. They lasted about 15 minutes before hitting the exit.

JohnTodd
09-19-13, 22:21
Visited Dolly's Massage today in Kiev. Was offered 3 ladies today all 3 were solid 9's.

I choose Elina, early 20's 32C. 26 32, 100 lbs, redish brown hair, very pretty.

The fee was 600 griva or about $75.

The service was excellent, a massage for 20 min then a tit screw, after completion, another massage for 45 min, then another great ending. Touching was allowed, but no penitration. The session lasted about 1 hr 15 min. I would recommend Dolly's.

Mann32
09-21-13, 13:38
Hi everyone,

I have been reading the forum for some time but thisis my first post. I have a question: someone here recommended top-modals dot com, but are all photos there real? All listed girls are too beautiful and some really cheap, just 300uah. Is this website even trustworthy?

I will be coming to Kiev for my first visit there in two weeks and I want to avoid scams.

Many thanks.

Sad Sam
09-21-13, 21:19
As Mann32 has asked, I am also planning my maiden visit to Kiev. For the short time I am there, this site seems the easiest, especially since they also happen to list the services the girls offer and allows you to search by ones that speak some English.

A couple of other questions for those that have used their service.

1) Can you trust their photo verified status?

2) Also, I hope their services they list are things that are available.

3) Finally do the girls come to your hotel or do you have to go to them?

Any other guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Global Surfer
09-22-13, 01:38
As Mann32 has asked, I am also planning my maiden visit to Kiev. For the short time I am there, this site seems the easiest, especially since they also happen to list the services the girls offer and allows you to search by ones that speak some English.

A couple of other questions for those that have used their service.

1) Can you trust their photo verified status?

2) Also, I hope their services they list are things that are available.

3) Finally do the girls come to your hotel or do you have to go to them?

Any other guidance would be greatly appreciated.Generally girls visit you on your hotel. I am not aware that they provide in call service.

Photos are fake but quality may still be good.

I cannot speak Russian / Ukrainian. Every time I call, the receptionist told me that the girl is not suitable as she cannot speak English and that she would send another suitable alternative.

With this statement technically they are not required to send the same on as photo.

Considering price, quality, performance and reliability I can recommend both top-model and escort-model.

Alternatively try Vodka bar or Caribbean.

DeLuxe and Budha bar and strip clubs are generally expensive.

Good thing about bars is that you get what you see.

Street scene, particularly close to McDonald or Mango in Kyrestic is cheap but very unreliable.

Generally I never had problem with service (apart from one I picked from Hotel Lobby) but my encounters in Kiev can be counted on fingers of one hand (you may need to stretch your hand a little bit)

Global Surfer
09-22-13, 01:40
Hi everyone,

I have been reading the forum for some time but thisis my first post. I have a question: someone here recommended top-modals dot com, but are all photos there real? All listed girls are too beautiful and some really cheap, just 300uah. Is this website even trustworthy?

I will be coming to Kiev for my first visit there in two weeks and I want to avoid scams.

Many thanks.If you speak English then cheap ones are not availabe. You would be lucky to get anything less than USD 70. Generally its is USD 100. Please read the other report for deail

Global Surfer
09-22-13, 01:43
They were the most obvious foreigners in the bar. Short with very stocky physiques. They lasted about 15 minutes before hitting the exit.Some Turkeman and Uzbek may look like Indian. I have met two Indian Coloured (but much taller than average Indian) Turkmen girls in Budha bar

Mann32
09-22-13, 09:52
Thank you for your help.

It's interesting to know that photos are fake. Have you ever been disappointed with the girl that you received instead of the one you wanted? Some girls speak English, so if she's not available they might send one who doesn't speak EN and is also double the price. Is this a trick they pull often, out of your experience?

Also, would it be worth going to another city instead of Kiev, like Poltava for example?

Alternatively I am also considering going to Russia.

Thank you

Climaxnow
09-22-13, 13:38
They opened up too many nightclubs in Kiev. This dispersed the girls throughout the city. I don't think this is a good thing for mongering.

Bamcoco
09-23-13, 09:09
If you speak English then cheap ones are not availabe. You would be lucky to get anything less than USD 70. Generally its is USD 100. Please read the other report for deailMaybe you just give a guy 2 USD to make a call for you, another point is that just pick a girl with normal picture (a pic looks not decorated). Then you are more likely to find a pretty girl with reasonable price. Actually I did like this in Mexico City, I just tipped a belly boy 20 peso (less than 2 USD). I never expect that guy additinally lower the escort girl's 500peso for me, buy he did.

OwaRunner
09-23-13, 18:26
Hi,

I will be in Kiev soon, and hope is that I can link up with some English speaking girls on VK. Problem is that I can not find out how to sort them out! Any clue is helpful?

Best regards,

Owarunner

Beaver101
09-23-13, 23:44
Hey guys, quick question and your help is really appreciated.

I am going to be in Kiev for 3 weeks and how do you think I can use my Iphone 5? It is unlocked and I am interested in Life and would like to add 1000gb and some minutes. Is this possible with Prepaid? Can I do it at the airport (Borispy)

And how do you PM in this forum? I am trying to PM yummy but I do not know how.

Thanks!

Global Surfer
09-24-13, 01:19
Maybe you just give a guy 2 USD to make a call for you, another point is that just pick a girl with normal picture (a pic looks not decorated). Then you are more likely to find a pretty girl with reasonable price. Actually I did like this in Mexico City, I just tipped a belly boy 20 peso (less than 2 USD). I never expect that guy additinally lower the escort girl's 500peso for me, buy he did.Kiev is a small city and I think it is very difficult for girls to put their photos as prostitutes. Mamba is a different story as it a mix of dating site plus sponsorship.

I think bad experiences are essential part of mongering. My overall experience was excellent. That is why I recommended both agencies.

OwaRunner
09-24-13, 19:42
Hey guys, quick question and your help is really appreciated.

I am going to be in Kiev for 3 weeks and how do you think I can use my Iphone 5? It is unlocked and I am interested in Life and would like to add 1000gb and some minutes. Is this possible with Prepaid? Can I do it at the airport (Borispy)

And how do you PM in this forum? I am trying to PM yummy but I do not know how.

Thanks!You need to pay to get PM.

Took me 6 weeks with PBP. So you have to use CC to get it while you are there.

Best regards.

Owarunner

NewBeak
09-25-13, 22:18
What are the standard prices in these Salons? And are they generally safe? Also can you give us newbies a rough idea, on how to tackle them.

Thank in advanceHello, you seem to have loads of experience! Can you give some advice to a newbie on the Kiev scene please? Best hotels to stay to get laid. Best ways of getting laid. And the cost of getting laid. Much appreciated.

Please see my report on Krakow. I have just come back.

Thank you.

Rallim
09-27-13, 20:20
I hate asking without actually contributing to the forum but I have found myself arriving in Kiev on the 18:th of oct at around 6 in the morning for a meeting and have to fly back around 05:00 the next day so unfortunately don't have time to hang around the nightclubs looking for action or get a feel for the place.

I usually prefer to dive into the deep end and just learn from my own mistakes and have a bit of fun with it but due to my work schedule I can't this time around so was wondering if there is anyone who can point me in the direction where to find some p4p for an early evening (18:00-21:00) Ill be staying just south of the city close to the Holosiivs'ky District.

Top modals dot com is that a trusted place to get some company from, the website seams very basic but some girls look stunning for around 300 UAH (can't be right can it)

Any help would be greatly appreciated and if you are ever in the UAE I'd be happy to return the favour.

Cheers

OwaRunner
09-28-13, 20:40
Hi,

I got a good list of working girls on Mamba now, PM me if you like to have a copy! Not many days to go before I can enjoy Kiev.

Best regards,

OwaRunner

LilJoey
09-28-13, 22:49
I hate asking without actually contributing to the forum but I have found myself arriving in Kiev on the 18:th of oct at around 6 in the morning for a meeting and have to fly back around 05:00 the next day so unfortunately don't have time to hang around the nightclubs looking for action or get a feel for the place.

I usually prefer to dive into the deep end and just learn from my own mistakes and have a bit of fun with it but due to my work schedule I can't this time around so was wondering if there is anyone who can point me in the direction where to find some p4p for an early evening (18:00-21:00) Ill be staying just south of the city close to the Holosiivs'ky District.

Top modals dot com is that a trusted place to get some company from, the website seams very basic but some girls look stunning for around 300 UAH (can't be right can it)

Any help would be greatly appreciated and if you are ever in the UAE I'd be happy to return the favour.

CheersYou are operating with an extremely tight window of time opportunity to execute a good p4p experience in Kiev. I have come to Kiev on two to three day stopover weekends and have refined for myself what should be the proper approach to p4p within those very constrained limits, and perhaps some of the principles involved can give guidance for your situation, which is even further constrained to a window of opportunity measured in hours and not even days.

The first thing most experienced mongers would say to you is that is seems not worthwhile to deliberately come to Kiev for such a short mongering experience. Kiev p4p is best experience with a longer period of time at your disposal, day a week or more. I have never been able to spare a full week, and have been making do quite well with long 4 day weekends at best. So I will presume your presence in Kiev for the one night is incidental to other reasons, such as business etc. And that you didn't fly all the way to Kiev for just one night.

The second parameter that should be considered is the type of general approach to p4p involved, which can be divided into two broad categories. One: you can see the actual girls before selecting. Two: blind selection of girls using Internet websites.

The second category of "blind selection" using Internet websites, is further exacerbated in its difficulties, by the fact that all the websites, or should I say ALL the websites, are using fake pictures designed specifically to lure customers with the tried and tested unscrupulous business practice known as "bait and switch". First lure you to contact them, and involve yourself in discussions or negotiations with them during which time all sorts of false promises are made to you, all in order so that you will place an order or make a booking with that business. You will not know what you actually purchased or ordered until it actually arrives on your doorstep. It will bear no actual relation whatsoever to the model you thought you were ordering based in what you saw in the Internet. So you will need to consider anew whether you wish to purchase or reject and return what was sent to you. And perhaps you will keep trying to order girls to come in the hopes that one will be a good one. And likely you will ultimately receive some girl that is acceptable looking. But the key element to be successful at obtaining a positive outcome when involved in such a hit or miss process is: time! You need time to be able to keep ordering and rejecting girls until a good one shows up by accidental chance. And time is a commodity that you are in short supply of, when you have only one night in Kiev, and in fact only several hours of that one night available for p4p mongering.

It is the truth of the foregoing analysis which leads me to the inescapable conclusion that for the best results, you must forgo the ultra cheap Internet options for Kiev, and focus your limited time on securing a sure thing by pursuing p4p of the first category, where you can see the actual girls before selecting. This generally is a more costly avenue, but in my opinion leads to more certain and potentially spectacular results, befitting a place like Kiev where scorchingly hot women, with perfect bodies and good looking faces are walking around all over the place. Won't you feel silly if you end up fucking an overweight, homely, piglet, that came to your apartment for the ultra cheap price of 300 UAH ($38) , as the crowning achievement of your Kiev foray? Surely you could find a dog to fuck for such prices back at your home wherever you are coming from, and you didn't need Kiev for that. Kiev is a place where you can aim much higher than that, and usually get something very much better. So unless you a a very cheap bastard, of which there are many such types who are members of this forum, who get so much more sexual excitement from the cheapness of the price, than they get from the beauty of the girl, I humbly suggest you reject such an approach, and focus on getting a hottie, even if it costs slightly more. Fortunately, in Kiev you can get pretty good stuff in the 800 UAH ($100) per hour range, which is still much cheaper per hour than girls of equivalent beauty would cost you elsewhere in the West.

And so I direct your attention to considering those options where you can see the girls in advance, which are:

(a) the street, including walking about outside, shopping in stores and malls etc. It is difficult to identify who might be amenable to p4p among such women, so this is not so efficient a method for a guy with such limited time, as you.

(B) girl apartments, which you can get to by asking taxi drivers downtown if they know where to find girls for sex, as the locations of many brothel type apartments are known to the drivers. Try to find a driver who speaks English a little, so he can help interpret for you, and go with you to take you into the apartment and communicate your questions with the Madame, and also for some personal security the driver's presence is good. Maybe hire him to give you a brothel or girl apartment tour, and go with you. The supply of girls in each apartment is not very large, but you only need one (or two. Hahaha) , and there may be some good ones available. The prices at such girl apartments are likely to be reasonable. This may be your best option, if your own apartment location is too far outside the downtown city area, so as to make you geographically undesirable as a client for outcall. As well, you can do this at hours of your own choosing. And therefore this meets your requirements as to the timing you referred to in your question. The other options in this category, are only open later in the evening, and I'm not certain you can take advantage of them adequately.

(C) the nightclubs, where the scene generally gets hopping later in the evening. So you will need to evaluate how well this fits with your timing. But generally there are some beautiful p4p girls to be had in the nightclubs. Their starting prices are higher, and negotiation is part of the process. If you can negotiate a really pretty girl down to around $300 for two hours ($150 / hr net rate) , then you are getting the best price at nightclubs or hangouts like D'lux or Buddha Bar. And reports of lower prices, like $200/2 hours can be found for other clubs, even some claims by members to a $100 fee. But there is sometimes difficulty in identifying which girls are p4p. So it is recommended to hang out by the bar in a dance club and watch for young girls looking at you. Try to catch their eye and hold their look with a smile. If a young girl holds your look while you smile at her, she is most likely looking for p4p company. One cannot be assured of the quantity or quality of the p4p available in any given nightclub. There are reports on the thread and you should be reading the thread.

(D) the easiest option, and one I would recommend, is the strip club that has "take out". There are a number of strip clubs which have this, but not all do. For example, the "Rhino" strip clubs do not have take out, although it has been said they have the hottest girls. I don't know that from personal experience though. The strip club with the lowest take out price remains Rio and it's sister clubs, Mandarin and Paradise, at $300/3hours (a $100 / hr net rate). Dolls was $300/2 hours last time I was there over a year ago. There is an all night take out fee of $400 at Rio (some girls have begun asking $500 if the all night begins before midnight) , while at Dolls the all night was $500. Considering the number of hours you get with the small increment in cost, it's a good option to know about. Although on this trip you will not be able to use it, since you must leave for the airport too early. If you are to try a strip club as a solution, it has a lot of girls all gathered in one place whom you can see in advance, and even have private dances with, and many of the girls are available for p4p, and a good percentage of the girls working at a strip club are generally very hot young girls with nice bodies. You would have to get in to the club at it's opening or shortly thereafter, and make a selection as soon as you see something good enough. It does take some time to sit through the line up, and then have a chat with girls of interest and proposition them if they would like to go home with you. So I cannot guarantee you a success with such limited time as you say you have. Obviously, in order to enjoy the three hours you are buying, you need to leave the club with a girl three hours in advance of when you must leave your apartment for the airport.

Although I like the strip club option myself, I don't know if it is for sure possible for you to score a hottie within the time available. I'm pretty sure the nightclub scene doesn't fit your schedule. So I'm thinking that your best bet is to start earlier in the day with a taxi driver and the girl apartments. Or go to apartments who advertise on top-modals. Com. If you want to roll the dice a few times on outcall girls from such a website, then try to order a few girls at a time for a "party" and reject those not good enough and keep the one that is good. But remember to ask her specifically any questions about her services provided before you give her money, or you may find your favorite thing on her forbidden list.

Good luck with this.

LJ

Hind31
09-29-13, 06:59
The first thing most experienced mongers would say to you is that is seems not worthwhile to deliberately come to Kiev for such a short mongering experience. Kiev p4p is best experience with a longer period of time at your disposal, day a week or more. I have never been able to spare a full week, and have been making do quite well with long 4 day weekends at best. So I will presume your presence in Kiev for the one night is incidental to other reasons, such as business etc. And that you didn't fly all the way to Kiev for just one night.

Although I like the strip club option myself, I don't know if it is for sure possible for you to score a hottie within the time available. I'm pretty sure the nightclub scene doesn't fit your schedule. So I'm thinking that your best bet is to start earlier in the day with a taxi driver and the girl apartments. Or go to apartments who advertise on top-modals. Com. If you want to roll the dice a few times on outcall girls from such a website, then try to order a few girls at a time for a "party" and reject those not good enough and keep the one that is good. But remember to ask her specifically any questions about her services provided before you give her money, or you may find your favorite thing on her forbidden list.

Good luck with this.

LJI have a scheduled stop over next month end for couple of days. Your advice is much appreciated. And as always and every where, never goto the internet option. 90% of the time, we will be disappointed.

SBTiger
09-29-13, 17:02
You are operating with an extremely tight window of time opportunity to execute a good p4p experience in Kiev. I have come to Kiev on two to three day stopover weekends and have refined for myself what should be the proper approach to p4p within those very constrained limits, and perhaps some of the principles involved can give guidance for your situation, which is even further constrained to a window of opportunity measured in hours and not even days.

The second parameter that should be considered is the type of general approach to p4p involved, which can be divided into two broad categories. One: you can see the actual girls before selecting. Two: blind selection of girls using Internet websites.

The second category of "blind selection" using Internet websites, is further exacerbated in its difficulties, by the fact that all the websites, or should I say ALL the websites, are using fake pictures designed specifically to lure customers with the tried and tested unscrupulous business practice known as "bait and switch".

It is the truth of the foregoing analysis which leads me to the inescapable conclusion that for the best results, you must forgo the ultra cheap Internet options for Kiev, and focus your limited time on securing a sure thing by pursuing p4p of the first category, where you can see the actual girls before selecting. This generally is a more costly avenue, but in my opinion leads to more certain and potentially spectacular results, befitting a place like Kiev where scorchingly hot women, with perfect bodies and good looking faces are walking around all over the place. Won't you feel silly if you end up fucking an overweight, homely, piglet, that came to your apartment for the ultra cheap price of 300 UAH ($38) ,....... and focus on getting a hottie, even if it costs slightly more. Fortunately, in Kiev you can get pretty good stuff in the 800 UAH ($100) per hour range, which is still much cheaper per hour than girls of equivalent beauty would cost you elsewhere in the West.

And so I direct your attention to considering those options where you can see the girls in advance, which are:

(a) the street, including walking about outside, shopping in stores and malls etc. It is difficult to identify who might be amenable to p4p among such women, so this is not so efficient a method for a guy with such limited time, as you.

(B) girl apartments, which you can get to by asking taxi drivers downtown if they know where to find girls for sex, as the locations of many brothel type apartments are known to the drivers. Try to find a driver who speaks English a little, so he can help interpret for you, and go with you to take you into the apartment and communicate your questions with the Madame, and also for some personal security the driver's presence is good. Maybe hire him to give you a brothel or girl apartment tour, and go with you. The supply of girls in each apartment is not very large, but you only need one (or two. Hahaha) , and there may be some good ones available. The prices at such girl apartments are likely to be reasonable. This may be your best option, if your own apartment location is too far outside the downtown city area, so as to make you geographically undesirable as a client for outcall. As well, you can do this at hours of your own choosing. And therefore this meets your requirements as to the timing you referred to in your question. The other options in this category, are only open later in the evening, and I'm not certain you can take advantage of them adequately.

(C) the nightclubs, where the scene generally gets hopping later in the evening. So you will need to evaluate how well this fits with your timing. But generally there are some beautiful p4p girls to be had in the nightclubs. Their starting prices are higher, and negotiation is part of the process. If you can negotiate a really pretty girl down to around $300 for two hours ($150 / hr net rate) , then you are getting the best price at nightclubs or hangouts like D'lux or Buddha Bar. And reports of lower prices, like $200/2 hours can be found for other clubs, even some claims by members to a $100 fee. But there is sometimes difficulty in identifying which girls are p4p. So it is recommended to hang out by the bar in a dance club and watch for young girls looking at you. Try to catch their eye and hold their look with a smile. If a young girl holds your look while you smile at her, she is most likely looking for p4p company. One cannot be assured of the quantity or quality of the p4p available in any given nightclub. There are reports on the thread and you should be reading the thread.

(D) the easiest option, and one I would recommend, is the strip club that has "take out". There are a number of strip clubs which have this, but not all do. For example, the "Rhino" strip clubs do not have take out, although it has been said they have the hottest girls. I don't know that from personal experience though. The strip club with the lowest take out price remains Rio and it's sister clubs, Mandarin and Paradise, at $300/3hours (a $100 / hr net rate). Dolls was $300/2 hours last time I was there over a year ago. There is an all night take out fee of $400 at Rio (some girls have begun asking $500 if the all night begins before midnight) , while at Dolls the all night was $500. Considering the number of hours you get with the small increment in cost, it's a good option to know about. Although on this trip you will not be able to use it, since you must leave for the airport too early. If you are to try a strip club as a solution, it has a lot of girls all gathered in one place whom you can see in advance, and even have private dances with, and many of the girls are available for p4p, and a good percentage of the girls working at a strip club are generally very hot young girls with nice bodies. You would have to get in to the club at it's opening or shortly thereafter, and make a selection as soon as you see something good enough. It does take some time to sit through the line up, and then have a chat with girls of interest and proposition them if they would like to go home with you. So I cannot guarantee you a success with such limited time as you say you have. Obviously, in order to enjoy the three hours you are buying, you need to leave the club with a girl three hours in advance of when you must leave your apartment for the airport.

....

Good luck with this.

LJLJ-

Thanks for lot of practical information, Kiev sounds both expensive and not so easy.

Some places and establishments try to attract customers- make it easier- transparent- no (or at least less scams) , better quality, standardized prices (lower whatever). Prices like $200/$300-certainly don't seem cheap. You can get much better deals in German FKKs or BCN etc- for the same Ukrainein girls - and no hassles at all. (And you didn't mention price of drinks in all these bars?). But overall prices are determined by demand and supply. So whatever the market is bearing in Kiev. I am always willing to pay higher for better quality, and if necessary go the extra mile (literally)- but all within reason.

So all the effort (and cost) of trip, unknown location, language problems will not make it worth a trip to Kiev. But if one happens to be there for business or tourism then it is another matter. So in my book Kiev will not qualify as 'destination'.

Thanks.

Tiger

Milan96
09-29-13, 20:27
Hey guys, quick question and your help is really appreciated.

I am going to be in Kiev for 3 weeks and how do you think I can use my Iphone 5? It is unlocked and I am interested in Life and would like to add 1000gb and some minutes. Is this possible with Prepaid? Can I do it at the airport (Borispy)

And how do you PM in this forum? I am trying to PM yummy but I do not know how.

Thanks!I haven't seen any handy shop at the airport, but there are many in the city center. For instance, there is.

A handy shop in the shopping center below Maidan plaza or at Khreshchatyk street. There you can get a prepaid SIM for 100 UAH, it can be also used for internet if this feature is activated (asked the guy in the shop to do it for you). The Nano-Sim for your iPhone5 might be less common, better take also an older cell phone with you. Providers are for instance "MTS" or "kyivstrat".

LilJoey
09-30-13, 02:43
I have a scheduled stop over next month end for couple of days. Your advice is much appreciated. And as always and every where, never goto the internet option. 90% of the time, we will be disappointed.
LJ-

Thanks for lot of practical information, Kiev sounds both expensive and not so easy.

Some places and establishments try to attract customers- make it easier- transparent- no (or at least less scams) , better quality, standardized prices (lower whatever). Prices like $200/$300-certainly don't seem cheap. You can get much better deals in German FKKs or BCN etc- for the same Ukrainein girls. And no hassles at all. (And you didn't mention price of drinks in all these bars?). But overall prices are determined by demand and supply. So whatever the market is bearing in Kiev. I am always willing to pay higher for better quality, and if necessary go the extra mile (literally). But all within reason.

So all the effort (and cost) of trip, unknown location, language problems will not make it worth a trip to Kiev. But if one happens to be there for business or tourism then it is another matter. So in my book Kiev will not qualify as 'destination'.

Thanks.

TigerHind & Tiger,

Maybe the fault is mine for not writing more for clarification. But you've both reached incorrect conclusions and to the extent it was based on what I recently wrote, I feel a duty to clarify my opinion for you.

First, Hind, please bear in mind that my last post was in response specifically to the question posted by Rallim who has a very limited number of hours to fool around with p4p in a one night stopover. It was to him that I directed my comments that I don't think he has enough time to properly pursue the less expensive Internet options available in Kiev. I'm sure you read my emphasis on the factor of "Time" in my response to Rallim. It was only because of lack of time, that I stated that playing the Internet roulette wheel was not the best way of getting a beautiful p4p girl to be with in Kiev. This is because since you must assume that the pictures are all fake, even the ones labeled "real photo", it means that you will have to endure a process of waiting until a girl you booked from an Internet site shows up, and then getting a look at her appearance, and speaking with her briefly, and if she is not to your taste, then rejecting her and sending her away (on the basis that she was not the girl in the photo, as promised). And then you've got to go through this process again for the next girl. And you must repeat this time consuming process with girl after girl, until a good looking enough girl shows up who seems nice enough after speaking with her, and promises the service you wanted. This is a numbers game. And in order to properly play a numbers game, you need sufficient time. The more time you spend spinning the wheel, the greater the chance you have of getting what you want. When your time becomes very limited, your statistical odds of getting a pretty girl goes down. Every additional time you can spin the wheel of chance, improves your odds. So my reason for not recommending the Internet route to Rallim is that he doesn't have much time to spend doing this. So how would it be if he did one, two or three tries, and only comes up with homely or plain girls the few times he tried an Internet site in Kiev, and then his time ran out, and he got nothing in the end. So I recommended a more time efficient and certain approach for him.

But you should have been able to reach the conclusion that the converse is true too. That is to say, that when there is sufficient time, then the Internet girls can be a good approach to finding good and inexpensive p4p in Kiev. You must read the thread, and read it more carefully. It is the primary recommendation from a majority of experienced Kiev mongers, that using mamba. Ru is the single best way of meeting beautiful p4p girls in Kiev who are asking low rates of below $100 / hr. How could you have missed that point if you have read the thread adequately.

And Tiger, I posted an analysis of the comparison of FKK's versus Kiev in the past, several times. And I recommend those posts to you for reading. Plainly put, the FKK is more expensive option than Kiev. You have to look at the per hour net cost, and do a comparison. Basically, in a Frankfurt FKK with the entrance fee included, if you do three hours of sex, your total cost would be 375 euro, and your net hourly cost would be 125 euro / hour, which is $169 / hr. In Kiev, a net cost of $100 / hour and less is routinely possible with girls from mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com, and even when going with a higher priced option such as in a strip club, it is $300 for 3 hours, which is still a net cost of $100 / hr, and clearly less than the costs of 125 euro / hr at the FKK. Just comparing the two locations more accurately with regard to costs.

With regard to service level, all agree that nothing beats the FKK environment. But that doesn't end the analysis, in my view. I feel that Kiev has things to offer the mongering man that cannot be gotten in the FKK's. So as far as I'm concerned, Kiev is in some respects a superior place to monger. What I do is monger in both Kiev, as well as make stopovers at FKK's. I think both options are great.

Your analysis of Kiev seems a little superficial and not based on personal experience. So perhaps you can benefit by more thorough reading of the thread. Language has not been a barrier at all, to all the great pussy I have been enjoying here in Kiev.

Others have reached the same conclusion as you. But I disagree after personally trying and investigating both options. If you read my prior reports, you will understand why. But to each his own. You will not suffer if you stay in FKK land, of that I am sure.

LJ

LilJoey
09-30-13, 11:51
I haven't seen any handy shop at the airport, but there are many in the city center. For instance, there is.

A handy shop in the shopping center below Maidan plaza or at Khreshchatyk street. There you can get a prepaid SIM for 100 UAH, it can be also used for internet if this feature is activated (asked the guy in the shop to do it for you). The Nano-Sim for your iPhone5 might be less common, better take also an older cell phone with you. Providers are for instance "MTS" or "kyivstrat"For the sake of having this information in one location on the thread, there are full service stores for both Kyivstar and MTC located on the street called Bogdana Khmel'nytskogo which intersects with Khreshchatyk Street in a "T" intersection just across from the large fountain in front of 25 Khreshchatyk. Proceeding from Khreshchatyk and walking up Bogdana Khmel'nytskogo, after a few steps you will find the Kyivstar store on your left, and further up the block, the MTC store on your right.

(Proceeding further up Bogdana Khmel'nytskogo to its intersection with Volodymyrs'ka street will bring you to the large and beautiful Theatre building, one of the truly beautiful buildings if Kiev. A few steps past the Theatre building, you will find Rio strip club on your right.)

LilJoey
09-30-13, 12:00
Note:

I should have added to the immediately prior post that walking up Bogdana Khmel'nytskogo from Khreshchatyk you will come first to the Teatral'na metro station, and the intersection with Pushkinska street, on which I believe is located the much lauded Dolly massage.

LJ

Kirch
09-30-13, 19:20
Anyone in Kiev this week? Last minute meeting in Kiev and I extended until Monday. A friend of mine works for Senator apartment and they opened up a new 5 Star "Hotel" near Maidan. I got an Apartment for 80 Euros / Night. 50% discount as they just opened Senator apartments Maidan. I will report if good or not. Will visit Dante, Rio, Sky, Buddah, etc. If anyone is into this, please pm me.

Compay
09-30-13, 20:23
Anyone in Kiev this week? Last minute meeting in Kiev and I extended until Monday. A friend of mine works for Senator apartment and they opened up a new 5 Star "Hotel" near Maidan. I got an Apartment for 80 Euros / Night. 50% discount as they just opened Senator apartments Maidan. I will report if good or not. Will visit Dante, Rio, Sky, Buddah, etc. If anyone is into this, please pm me.Just decided to head for Kiev from tomorrow until Sunday afternoon. Senator apartment could be an option, will contact them tomorrow morning. Let's grab a beer at Arena sports bar and then head to Shooters tomorrow evening. Just set up an account and waiting for my subscription to pm you.

Cheers.

Compay
09-30-13, 20:24
Anyone in Kiev this week? Last minute meeting in Kiev and I extended until Monday. A friend of mine works for Senator apartment and they opened up a new 5 Star "Hotel" near Maidan. I got an Apartment for 80 Euros / Night. 50% discount as they just opened Senator apartments Maidan. I will report if good or not. Will visit Dante, Rio, Sky, Buddah, etc. If anyone is into this, please pm me.Just saw, that you arrive on Wednesday? Well, let's say Wednesday then.

Rallim
10-01-13, 01:02
You are operating with an extremely tight window of time opportunity to execute a good p4p experience in Kiev. I have come to Kiev on two to three day stopover weekends and have refined for myself what should be the proper approach to p4p within those very constrained limits, and perhaps some of the principles involved can give guidance for your situation, which is even further constrained to a window of opportunity measured in hours and not even days.

LJLJ thanks for your detailed help, more info than I could have ever hoped for. Ill make sure to post my experiences shortly after my very brief visit to this slice of heaven.

/Rallim

SBTiger
10-01-13, 05:15
[QUOTE=Starchild2012; 1472241]Hahaha. That's hilarious.

Dude. Why don't you please first read my post before making assumptions.

Here from my original post.

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1465386&viewfull=1#post1465386

-

I found after reading so many post. Compare to South East Asia. For mongers. Ukraine, Russia, EE seems to be a tough environment for that soft touch and love. Its more business like with less emotions compared to the post one reads in Thailand thread. Where its more personal and emotions involved. Even though I read very very less scams compared to Thailand where one gets pushed and ends up dead in the end.

QUOTE]

Starchild:

Never heard of crimes and scams in Thailand- have visited all those areas many times, never seen anything but smiles and politeness.

Have not visited Kiev yet. So cannot comment on the crime scene here, but based on forum. Looks like lot of false Ads and that kind of stuff like (not entirely unexpected).

Tiger

SBTiger
10-01-13, 07:20
LJ:

Thanks for your detailed and well thought response.

Yes I would concede some of these Kiev vs FKK (or similar) comparisons to begin with are inappropriate- akin to apple and oranges. Just because both have juice (pus.) does not make them to be the same.

Nonetheless one does expect things to be much cheaper in Ukraine as compared to Germany- standard and cost of living, FSU, etc. Is it right expect that- we can debate that. But unless it was somewhat cheaper easier- it does not become worth a trip for some of us (at least me). I certainly would pay extra for service, reliability and flexibility rather than other way around.

But yes it maybe possible to get better hotter chicks in Kiev clubs or Mamba (never looked at that yet) , FKK standards are falling anyway.

Thanks,

Tiger.


Hind & Tiger,

Maybe the fault is mine for not writing more for clarification. But you've both reached incorrect conclusions and to the extent it was based on what I recently wrote, I feel a duty to clarify my opinion for you.

It is the primary recommendation from a majority of experienced Kiev mongers, that using mamba. Ru is the single best way of meeting beautiful p4p girls in Kiev who are asking low rates of below $100 / hr. How could you have missed that point if you have read the thread adequately.

And Tiger, I posted an analysis of the comparison of FKK's versus Kiev in the past, several times. And I recommend those posts to you for reading. Plainly put, the FKK is more expensive option than Kiev. You have to look at the per hour net cost, and do a comparison. Basically, in a Frankfurt FKK with the entrance fee included, if you do three hours of sex, your total cost would be 375 euro, and your net hourly cost would be 125 euro / hour, which is $169 / hr. In Kiev, a net cost of $100 / hour and less is routinely possible with girls from mamba. Ru and top-modals. Com, and even when going with a higher priced option such as in a strip club, it is $300 for 3 hours, which is still a net cost of $100 / hr, and clearly less than the costs of 125 euro / hr at the FKK. Just comparing the two locations more accurately with regard to costs.

With regard to service level, all agree that nothing beats the FKK environment. But that doesn't end the analysis, in my view. I feel that Kiev has things to offer the mongering man that cannot be gotten in the FKK's. So as far as I'm concerned, Kiev is in some respects a superior place to monger. What I do is monger in both Kiev, as well as make stopovers at FKK's. I think both options are great.

To all the great pussy I have been enjoying here in Kiev.

Others have reached the same conclusion as you. But I disagree after personally trying and investigating both options. But to each his own. You will not suffer if you stay in FKK land, of that I am sure.

LJ

Global Surfer
10-02-13, 01:17
Ukraine First centre of civilization in Europe.

Definitely more expansive than Thailand.

Number of possibilities, clubs, bars and working girls no way near Thailand.

Mongering is restricted to a few clubs and web sites.

As a tourist expect to pay USD 100 at the minimum. Thailand you pay average USD 30.

Ukraine is bitterly cold on winter (-20C) where is Thailand is tropical (30C) year round.

Ideally visit Thailand in winter and Ukraine in summer.

It also depends upon your location. For me Kiev is 2. 5 hour flight costing USD100 but Thailand is 15 hour flight cost USD900.

If you follow common sense rules both places are reasonably save.

(Scams, mugging and fights happen even in Central London and New York)

People warm and cold (good or bad) depends upon individual and the chemistry between you and them.

Ukraine or Thailand or anywhere else in the world GFE from girls is 'acting'. Anything more than that is mostly likely your delusion or in rare case an exception to the rule.

SwissAmerican
10-02-13, 01:24
LJ:

Thanks for your detailed and well thought response.

Yes I would concede some of these Kiev vs FKK (or similar) comparisons to begin with are inappropriate- akin to apple and oranges. Just because both have juice (pus.) does not make them to be the same.

Nonetheless one does expect things to be much cheaper in Ukraine as compared to Germany- standard and cost of living, FSU, etc. Is it right expect that- we can debate that. But unless it was somewhat cheaper easier- it does not become worth a trip for some of us (at least me). I certainly would pay extra for service, reliability and flexibility rather than other way around.

But yes it maybe possible to get better hotter chicks in Kiev clubs or Mamba (never looked at that yet) , FKK standards are falling anyway.

Thanks,

Tiger.You should come over to Geneva and check out the Ukrainian women working in the cabarets, circa 400-600 swissies (450. 650 bucks) just for the bottle of champagne (which effectively gives you the "right" to talk with them) and about the same for 1 hour of action with them (rules may vary by Swiss canton, but in Geneva there is an exit bar fee which is the same price as the champagne and must paid to take the girl out, on top of the 1 hour that goes to her).

Depending on the establishment, quality can be very good; certainly beats German, Austrian and Swiss FKKs!

Milan96
10-02-13, 02:23
Ukraine First centre of civilization in Europe.

Definitely more expansive than Thailand.

Number of possibilities, clubs, bars and working girls no way near Thailand.

Mongering is restricted to a few clubs and web sites.

As a tourist expect to pay USD 100 at the minimum. Thailand you pay average USD 30.

Ukraine is bitterly cold on winter (-20C) where is Thailand is tropical (30C) year round.

Ideally visit Thailand in winter and Ukraine in summer.

It also depends upon your location. For me Kiev is 2. 5 hour flight costing USD100 but Thailand is 15 hour flight cost USD900.

If you follow common sense rules both places are reasonably save.

(Scams, mugging and fights happen even in Central London and New York)

People warm and cold (good or bad) depends upon individual and the chemistry between you and them.

Ukraine or Thailand or anywhere else in the world GFE from girls is 'acting'. Anything more than that is mostly likely your delusion or in rare case an exception to the rule.You missed a major point: The density of beautiful women is nowhere in Europe (or even the world) higher than in Kiev. For the taste of a common Western monger, Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls. In addition, girls from Thailand are usually quite passive, where Ukrainian semi-pros from Mamba or discos are more pro-active.

Milan96
10-02-13, 02:32
LJ thanks for your detailed help, more info than I could have ever hoped for. Ill make sure to post my experiences shortly after my very brief visit to this slice of heaven.

/RallimBest option for you is to ask a taxi driver for some model appartment. If he is offering you a "top-model" for 300 USD or so, he is trying to rip you off.

A reasonable offer is 1 hour for 1000 UAH or even less. Surely he will get his cut, but that's fair enough.

SBTiger
10-02-13, 05:54
If prices in Geneva are anything like 1000++ as you are indicating- it can't be a great place at all.

However, I have been to Geneva- for 100-200/300(max) Swissies you can pretty much get anything, SWs (often real good ones) for even less. EEs typically at the lower end of price range.
Any place where sex is legal and free market exists (of whatever sort)- industry is professional- well organized- plenty of good supply- prices and services are great - Germany, Switzerland, Spain, etc.

The clubs you are referring to- likely for for high rollers (or amateurs or tourist traps).


You should come over to Geneva and check out the Ukrainian women working in the cabarets, circa 400-600 swissies (450. 650 bucks) just for the bottle of champagne (which effectively gives you the "right" to talk with them) and about the same for 1 hour of action with them (rules may vary by Swiss canton, but in Geneva there is an exit bar fee which is the same price as the champagne and must paid to take the girl out, on top of the 1 hour that goes to her).

Depending on the establishment, quality can be very good; certainly beats German, Austrian and Swiss FKKs!

LilJoey
10-02-13, 14:41
You should come over to Geneva and check out the Ukrainian women working in the cabarets, circa 400-600 swissies (450. 650 bucks) just for the bottle of champagne (which effectively gives you the "right" to talk with them) and about the same for 1 hour of action with them (rules may vary by Swiss canton, but in Geneva there is an exit bar fee which is the same price as the champagne and must paid to take the girl out, on top of the 1 hour that goes to her).

Depending on the establishment, quality can be very good; certainly beats German, Austrian and Swiss FKKs!In fact, I did make an investigatory foray to Switzerland to check out the scene there, and I posted my findings and analysis at the time.

My trip was to Zurich and I decided to try FKK Globe, to test the proposition that the higher prices there compared to Germany were justified by the higher beauty level of the available girls, when compared to the beauty level of the line up to be found at the best of the German FKK's.

Simply put, the price for an hour of sex at FKK Globe in Zurich was about double the cost of the same think in FKK Oase or Palace in Frankfurt. But the beauty level of the girls in Globe was not double the level of the beauty of the girls in Oase or Palace. The main difference appears to be that Glibe does not accept the girls of lesser beauty to work at the club, so that there is a higher concentration of the better looking girls there, whereas in Oase or Palace there are girls in the line up who will not win any beauty contests. But in both places you can get girls of similar level of beauty.

My conclusion was that there was no justification for going to Zurich as a mongering destination, versus Frankfurt, because you get basically the same thing, but for double the price.

There were even higher priced venues in Zurich than Globe, but I did not check them out. Who knows? Maybe there are places with much higher beauty levels than at the German FKK's in Zurich, or for that matter in Geneva. However, that is one of the reasons that in addition to the FKK's, I like to go to Kiev as a mongering destination. Because in Kiev it is possible to get to girls who are more beautiful than at FKK's at a price lower than or equivalent to the FKK's.

So I would say in response to your observation, that you should come to Kiev, where it is one of the sources of the Ukrainian hotties you saw in Geneva, and therefore many more EE beauties are in supply, and many are available for p4p at a fraction of the cost you describe in Geneva.

And I am not one to shy away from spending significant dollars for a high level beauty experience. I definitely believe that for higher level beauties, or even greater "fun factor", it is worth it to pay more. For example, I have not infrequently taken two girls out of Rio strip club in Kiev, at a cost of $300 each, for a total of $600, plus around $100 in drinks etc. At the club, if there was a great vibe between the girls, and between them and me, for the added "fun factor" of such an escapade. So I am not one to cry over spending the amount of money you are describing it costs for a high level beauty in Geneva. So it is not the cost that would cause me to not be so interested in checking out what you describe, but rather the knowledge that I can get the same elsewhere for far less. If you are a guy who loves Ukrainian / Russian type EE hotties, like I do, then Kiev should be on your list. It is one of the sources from which this EE beauty flows, and with your spending habits, you will revel in all the beauty that is to be had in such a place.

With respect,

LJ

Manny51
10-02-13, 15:35
Ukraine First centre of civilization in Europe.

Definitely more expansive than Thailand.

Number of possibilities, clubs, bars and working girls no way near Thailand.

Mongering is restricted to a few clubs and web sites.

As a tourist expect to pay USD 100 at the minimum. Thailand you pay average USD 30.

Ukraine is bitterly cold on winter (-20C) where is Thailand is tropical (30C) year round.

Ideally visit Thailand in winter and Ukraine in summer.

It also depends upon your location. For me Kiev is 2. 5 hour flight costing USD100 but Thailand is 15 hour flight cost USD900.

If you follow common sense rules both places are reasonably save.

(Scams, mugging and fights happen even in Central London and New York)

People warm and cold (good or bad) depends upon individual and the chemistry between you and them.

Ukraine or Thailand or anywhere else in the world GFE from girls is 'acting'. Anything more than that is mostly likely your delusion or in rare case an exception to the rule.What about STDs? I used to read the Ukraine forums a bit, and people were often reporting about how all kinds of nasty stuff going around.

LilJoey
10-02-13, 16:16
Just a warning for those using mamba. Ru to beware of several scammers I had the misfortune of meeting:

Valerie.

http://www.mamba.ru/mb765366493?hit=3

Correspondence on mamba was carried on in English. Photos were emailed. Details of meeting, including mutual oral sex (DATY or 69) were discussed in mamba messages. When I received the email photo and saw it was different than the girl (s) in the profile photos, I saw that Valerie was not any of the girls in the profile photos. (but see attached-she looked pretty good). I asked Valerie on mamba, who was the girl in the profile photos in the jeans in front of the tree with flowers, and she said it was her friend, Julia, whom she informed me she had already had sex with.

So we made up to have a threesome (ménage a trois) and it all promised to be a very good duo session. Unfortunately, when the two showed up, one of them was a 40 year old blond headed cleaning lady looking woman with an ok body, and the second girl was a beautiful girl with long black hair and a very good body whom I was happy to see, initially. She looked a lot like the girl in the Valerie profile photos who I had been told was named Julia, but it wasn't exactly her. Nevertheless, she was eminently doable. But the first negative sign was that the girls kept stalling on letting me take off some of their clothes to get the session started, as if they wanted to eat up more time from the session in drinking and chatting. And I'm just refering to pulling off the blonde's sweater. I told the black haired beauty (Julia) that she was my type and could stay as long as she wanted, but her blonde friend was not so much what I wanted, but for the sake of harmony, she could stay for one hour. The prices they had written on mamba were $80 / hr and $300 / night. But Julia demanded $100 / hr each. It was a small increment, so I agreed, but I said that the money will remain on the table until they are ready to leave, and they agreed.

So I asked the older blonde to relax on the bed, while I took the very pretty Julia into the shower for a mutual wash up, to start breaking the ice. I find that it helps to use this opportunity for very gentle touching and soaping and massaging of the pussy, both to excite the girl (if done gently and properly) as well as insure a good washing of her pussy to my specifications for purposes of an enjoyable (for me) DATY afterwards. The girl's body was gorgeous. But a big negative sign was she refused to allow me to wash her pussy, and only wanted to wash herself. I told myself that it was just shyness. So we came out of the shower and I sent in the blond to wash herself, intending to have the blonde come out of the shower, to find her friend Julia in the throes of delight, in receiving a very special DATY.

But what occurred was that Julia went directly over to scoop the money off the table and put it into her pocketbook on the nightstand. I said you agreed to take the money at the end. She smiled and said "no". I then had her take off her towel and sit on the bed, but when I asked her to lie back so I could go down on her, she said,"no, you cannot kiss my pussy. Only I kiss you, and you lay down". I said to her that this was fully discussed and agreed on our correspondence on mamba, and you wrote that you enjoyed very much to receive oral sex and looked forward to it with me. She still said no. I said that this was not what we agreed to, and I would need to terminate the session and take the money back and send them away. And I went for her pocketbook and began to open it to retrieve the $200 she had just put there. She said am I crazy going to her pocketbook, and she will call her security. I said call whoever you like, but you are not going to steal from me $200. And I continued to open and fish around in her pocketbook, but I couldn't find where she had put it. Then the blond came out of the shower and asked what was going on, and I didn't feel like fighting with two women, and didn't know if she really had security, or some goons she could call on, so I said that they should give back half the money and go, which she said ok to, and told Julia to give it back, which she did. It seemed as if the older blonde was more in authority, while the younger pretty Julia was the one who spoke a little English. I told her she was being silly because I was going to give her $300 for all night, and instead because she reneged on her promise on mamba regarding oral sex, she was leaving with only $50. It didn't sway her. So they left.

So this is why I always say, go over the service details with the girl or girls who show up at your apartment. It was evident to me that the girls who showed up, were not the same as who I was corresponding with on mamba. Julia had no knowledge of the promises of oral sex and DATY made on mamba, and was just doing her own thing. It was a mistake for me to not have Reconfirmed with her all the details of the agreement on mamba. What threw me off was that she really looked like the profile photos of the girl I was told was named Julia, but the resemblance must be coincidental. I was probably dealing with a manager of a girl apartment on the mamba correspondence, or an agency.

Learn from mistakes.

And don't be discouraged from using mamba, because overall my experiences have been great. I'm only posting the photos of the bad apples.

Photo 1. The emailed photo of Valerie. She never showed up.

Photos 2 and 3. The photos Valerie identified as her friend Julia. A girl very similar looking did show up, with an older blonde, but was a bad apple, with limited service.

LJ

Sponsor74
10-02-13, 19:56
In fact, I did make an investigatory foray to Switzerland to check out the scene there, and I posted my findings and analysis at the time.

My trip was to Zurich and I decided to try FKK Globe, to test the proposition that the higher prices there compared to Germany were justified by the higher beauty level of the available girls, when compared to the beauty level of the line up to be found at the best of the German FKK's.

Simply put, the price for an hour of sex at FKK Globe in Zurich was about double the cost of the same think in FKK Oase or Palace in Frankfurt. But the beauty level of the girls in Globe was not double the level of the beauty of the girls in Oase or Palace. The main difference appears to be that Glibe does not accept the girls of lesser beauty to work at the club, so that there is a higher concentration of the better looking girls there, whereas in Oase or Palace there are girls in the line up who will not win any beauty contests. But in both places you can get girls of similar level of beauty.

My conclusion was that there was no justification for going to Zurich as a mongering destination, versus Frankfurt, because you get basically the same thing, but for double the price.

There were even higher priced venues in Zurich than Globe, but I did not check them out. Who knows? Maybe there are places with much higher beauty levels than at the German FKK's in Zurich, or for that matter in Geneva. However, that is one of the reasons that in addition to the FKK's, I like to go to Kiev as a mongering destination. Because in Kiev it is possible to get to girls who are more beautiful than at FKK's at a price lower than or equivalent to the FKK's.

So I would say in response to your observation, that you should come to Kiev, where it is one of the sources of the Ukrainian hotties you saw in Geneva, and therefore many more EE beauties are in supply, and many are available for p4p at a fraction of the cost you describe in Geneva.

And I am not one to shy away from spending significant dollars for a high level beauty experience. I definitely believe that for higher level beauties, or even greater "fun factor", it is worth it to pay more. For example, I have not infrequently taken two girls out of Rio strip club in Kiev, at a cost of $300 each, for a total of $600, plus around $100 in drinks etc. At the club, if there was a great vibe between the girls, and between them and me, for the added "fun factor" of such an escapade. So I am not one to cry over spending the amount of money you are describing it costs for a high level beauty in Geneva. So it is not the cost that would cause me to not be so interested in checking out what you describe, but rather the knowledge that I can get the same elsewhere for far less. If you are a guy who loves Ukrainian / Russian type EE hotties, like I do, then Kiev should be on your list. It is one of the sources from which this EE beauty flows, and with your spending habits, you will revel in all the beauty that is to be had in such a place.

With respect,

LJLJ very interesting topic! I live in Zurich and travel often to Ukraine. Here my personal opinion based on my experiences. Kiev and Zurich are the most important important cities in both countries. The main differences for me are the wages levels. In Zurich the minimum salary (?) is approx USD 4000 and in Kiev I know some women with a salary of USD 300 to 500 and most of them without an insurance or pension plan. However, for me Ukraine women are more romantic and passionate in sex, in other words more happy even under these difficult circumstances.

Both cities are very interesting too but Kiev could be colder than Zurich. But even in Winter Ukraine women wear more sexy clothes and like to show their sexy bodies.

Working girls in Zurich are most of them foreigners but charging "Swiss prices" therefore not an option for me.

I still don't understand why prices in Ukraine are so high taking into consideration the salary level. Maybe only for Oligarchs!

Therefore to make my money I prefer Zurich but for women Ukraine for sure much better Ukraine.

Zurich could be also a danger and unfriendly city. In this topic until now I don't have bad experiences in Ukraine. For sure Ukraine could have criminality but for me unknown. Not pleasant in Ukraine is the corruption (in Switzerland too e. G. Banks) but this other topic.

I trust this opinion is of assistance and I repeat is based on my personal experiences which could be also wrong.

CastOnThis
10-02-13, 20:12
What about STDs? I used to read the Ukraine forums a bit, and people were often reporting about how all kinds of nasty stuff going around.HSV-1 is common, and on my most recent I got that and gonorrhea. But the simple reason for that is the condom felled off while having sex and I licked something I shouldn't have. If you don't lick or your condom doesn't fall. You should be fine.

But sex is funnier when you do it raw.

LilJoey
10-02-13, 22:47
I think I agree with Milan1 who wrote that a comparison between Thailand and Kiev in terms of just the cost factor alone, really misses the point. But the point is not lost on those of us who lust for the type of beauty possessed by EE (Eastern European) women from places like Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia or Belarus, etc, which is that Thai women have an entirely different look and appeal.

I absolutely love and adore latina women and love sex with them, but I much prefer the beauty and look of EE women. Similarly, I have experienced the beauty of Korean women, but still much prefer the EE women's looks. When I say EE women, I also include Czech and Slovak women, Hungarian women, and the more swarthy types with darker shade of skin from places like Romania or even Bulgaria. It's just a personal subjective preference for the type of features that are characteristic of EE beauty.

So for someone like me, Thailand is not and equivalently desireable mongering destination as Kiev, simply because sex costs less there. Sex costs less in the Dominican Republic too, and there are hot women there too, but it is not as good a mongering destination to me in any way, as compared to going to Kiev.

But while we are at it comparing Kiev to Thailand, or to Geneva and Zurich, or to the German FKK's, may I share with you the opinion that London is in fact a location in which has gathered the creme de la creme of EE beauty.

Here is a photo of my favorite in London, Amelia from Poland, see attached. Or take a look at the others possible to bed in London on the londonescortguide. Com.

Amelia is a real beauty. But in London the costs are higher, so for Amelia it is 200 GBP / 1 hr. ($325 USD) , or 350 GBP / 2 hrs. ($568 USD) , which is a net rate of $284 / hr. Now for 1 hour of sex at FKK Palace in Frankfurt it would cost 175 Euro ($238 USD) , and for 2 hours of sex in FKK Palace with the most pretty girl there, it would cost only 275 Euro (including the 75 Euro entrance fee) , which is a net rate of 137. 50 Euro / hr, or $185. 40 USD / hr. At today's rates.

So each of you may now perform the mental excercise of asking yourselves this question: clearly Amelia in London is more beautiful than girls typically seen in any German FKK. But because of the greater beauty level of girls like Amelia in London, am I motivated to go to London and spend $325 USD for an hour with her, or $568 for 2 hours with her, or am I content to stay in Frankfurt's FKK Palace and spend 175 Euro ($238 USD) for 1 hour, or 275 Euro ($374 USD)? Is the extra beauty possible in London worth paying about $100 more per hour for it, to you?

I thought about it. And my answer was, occasionally. So I treat myself to a few of London's beauties whenever I have a stopover there and time allows.

To each his own.

Happy Mongering.

LJ

Global Surfer
10-03-13, 01:12
You missed a major point: The density of beautiful women is nowhere in Europe (or even the world) higher than in Kiev. For the taste of a common Western monger, Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls. In addition, girls from Thailand are usually quite passive, where Ukrainian semi-pros from Mamba or discos are more pro-active.Beauty is in the eyes of beholder.

In my experience, may Europeans prefer Filipina or Thais, whereas may Asian would prefer European.

Passive or active is also relative. Common complaint about CIS is that they rarely stay overnight.

Excluding top-model, escort-model and mamba, Ukrainian women are cheaper in Dubai / Bangkok / KL thank in Ukraine.

Ukraine, Belorussia, Poland, Check and Russian Slavs are ethnically same people hence density of beautiful woman is irrelevant.

One relevant thing I forgot to mention was the expensive hotels in Kiev.

I am not trying to promote Thailand over Ukraine but simply try to state the fact that different people have different choices.

Global Surfer
10-03-13, 01:13
What about STDs? I used to read the Ukraine forums a bit, and people were often reporting about how all kinds of nasty stuff going around.STD.

I think you mean burst condom rather than bb.

I have no information about prevalence of common STD in either country. HIV is probably less in Ukraine but they still have the highest incidence in Europe.

Sorbonne
10-03-13, 11:04
I think I agree with Milan1 who wrote that a comparison between Thailand and Kiev in terms of just the cost factor alone, really misses the point. But the point is not lost on those of us who lust for the type of beauty possessed by EE (Eastern European) women from places like Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia or Belarus, etc, which is that Thai women have an entirely different look and appeal.

I absolutely love and adore latina women and love sex with them, but I much prefer the beauty and look of EE women. Similarly, I have experienced the beauty of Korean women, but still much prefer the EE women's looks. When I say EE women, I also include Czech and Slovak women, Hungarian women, and the more swarthy types with darker shade of skin from places like Romania or even Bulgaria. It's just a personal subjective preference for the type of features that are characteristic of EE beauty.

So for someone like me, Thailand is not and equivalently desireable mongering destination as Kiev, simply because sex costs less there. Sex costs less in the Dominican Republic too, and there are hot women there too, but it is not as good a mongering destination to me in any way, as compared to going to Kiev.

But while we are at it comparing Kiev to Thailand, or to Geneva and Zurich, or to the German FKK's, may I share with you the opinion that London is in fact a location in which has gathered the creme de la creme of EE beauty.

Here is a photo of my favorite in London, Amelia from Poland, see attached. Or take a look at the others possible to bed in London on the londonescortguide. Com.

Amelia is a real beauty. But in London the costs are higher, so for Amelia it is 200 GBP / 1 hr. ($325 USD) , or 350 GBP / 2 hrs. ($568 USD) , which is a net rate of $284 / hr. Now for 1 hour of sex at FKK Palace in Frankfurt it would cost 175 Euro ($238 USD) , and for 2 hours of sex in FKK Palace with the most pretty girl there, it would cost only 275 Euro (including the 75 Euro entrance fee) , which is a net rate of 137. 50 Euro / hr, or $185. 40 USD / hr. At today's rates.

So each of you may now perform the mental excercise of asking yourselves this question: clearly Amelia in London is more beautiful than girls typically seen in any German FKK. But because of the greater beauty level of girls like Amelia in London, am I motivated to go to London and spend $325 USD for an hour with her, or $568 for 2 hours with her, or am I content to stay in Frankfurt's FKK Palace and spend 175 Euro ($238 USD) for 1 hour, or 275 Euro ($374 USD)? Is the extra beauty possible in London worth paying about $100 more per hour for it, to you?

I thought about it. And my answer was, occasionally. So I treat myself to a few of London's beauties whenever I have a stopover there and time allows.

To each his own.

Happy Mongering.

LJInteresting that you brought up Amelia when I'm finally trying to get to her on the way to FKK in Germany and to Kiev in a few weeks.

SwissAmerican
10-03-13, 18:29
If prices in Geneva are anything like 1000++ as you are indicating- it can't be a great place at all.

However, I have been to Geneva- for 100-200/300 (max) Swissies you can pretty much get anything, SWs (often real good ones) for even less. EEs typically at the lower end of price range.

Any place where sex is legal and free market exists (of whatever sort). Industry is professional- well organized- plenty of good supply- prices and services are great. Germany, Switzerland, Spain, etc.

The clubs you are referring to- likely for for high rollers (or amateurs or tourist traps).No tourist trap my friend, this is closely regulated and legally nobody in these establishments can pressure you to pay money in these places (and the Swiss legal system is strictly enforced).

www.velvet-club.ch

90% of the chicks are from the FSU, with Ukraine being the biggest source. These establishments exist all over Switzerland, but this one is probably the most expensive around.

1 glass of beer= 35 CHF (39 USD)

1 glass of orange juice= 25 CHF (28 USD)

Wide selection of champagne, all the way up to 9'500 CHF for a bottle (10'560 USD).

May seem like a rip-off, but not too bad for those on standard Swiss salaries and considering the fact that you don't need to pay for a flight to Kiev and a place to stay for a few days (and the time to fly).

OwaRunner
10-03-13, 20:10
Just a warning for those using mamba. Ru to beware of several scammers I had the misfortune of meeting:

Valerie.

http://www.mamba.ru/mb765366493?hit=3

Correspondence on mamba was carried on in English. Photos were emailed. Details of meeting, including mutual oral sex (DATY or 69) were discussed in mamba messages. When I received the email photo and saw it was different than the girl (s) in the profile photos, I saw that Valerie was not any of the girls in the profile photos. (but see attached-she looked pretty good). I asked Valerie on mamba, who was the girl in the profile photos in the jeans in front of the tree with flowers, and she said it was her friend, Julia, whom she informed me she had already had sex with.

So we made up to have a threesome (ménage a trois) and it all promised to be a very good duo session. Unfortunately, when the two showed up, one of them was a 40 year old blond headed cleaning lady looking woman with an ok body, and the second girl was a beautiful girl with long black hair and a very good body whom I was happy to see, initially. She looked a lot like the girl in the Valerie profile photos who I had been told was named Julia, but it wasn't exactly her. Nevertheless, she was eminently doable. But the first negative sign was that the girls kept stalling on letting me take off some of their clothes to get the session started, as if they wanted to eat up more time from the session in drinking and chatting. And I'm just refering to pulling off the blonde's sweater. I told the black haired beauty (Julia) that she was my type and could stay as long as she wanted, but her blonde friend was not so much what I wanted, but for the sake of harmony, she could stay for one hour. The prices they had written on mamba were $80 / hr and $300 / night. But Julia demanded $100 / hr each. It was a small increment, so I agreed, but I said that the money will remain on the table until they are ready to leave, and they agreed.

So I asked the older blonde to relax on the bed, while I took the very pretty Julia into the shower for a mutual wash up, to start breaking the ice. I find that it helps to use this opportunity for very gentle touching and soaping and massaging of the pussy, both to excite the girl (if done gently and properly) as well as insure a good washing of her pussy to my specifications for purposes of an enjoyable (for me) DATY afterwards. The girl's body was gorgeous. But a big negative sign was she refused to allow me to wash her pussy, and only wanted to wash herself. I told myself that it was just shyness. So we came out of the shower and I sent in the blond to wash herself, intending to have the blonde come out of the shower, to find her friend Julia in the throes of delight, in receiving a very special DATY...Thank you. Reports like this good to now.

PM me with some good experience.

Best regards,

Owarunner

LilJoey
10-04-13, 10:47
No tourist trap my friend, this is closely regulated and legally nobody in these establishments can pressure you to pay money in these places (and the Swiss legal system is strictly enforced).

www.velvet-club.ch

90% of the chicks are from the FSU, with Ukraine being the biggest source. These establishments exist all over Switzerland, but this one is probably the most expensive around.

1 glass of beer= 35 CHF (39 USD)

1 glass of orange juice= 25 CHF (28 USD)

Wide selection of champagne, all the way up to 9'500 CHF for a bottle (10'560 USD).

May seem like a rip-off, but not too bad for those on standard Swiss salaries and considering the fact that you don't need to pay for a flight to Kiev and a place to stay for a few days (and the time to fly).The Swiss franc is similar to a US Dollar, and the cost considerations are similar. You are correct in pointing out that there will be travel costs and time involved in going to Kiev for a long 4 night / 5 day weekend, for example. I would estimate about $1,000 USD in airfare and luxury apartment rental costs.

But I think you are missing something here. If you are satisfied with indulging infrequently in one hour of sex with a very expensive high class beauty in Geneva every once in a while, who costs between $600 to $1000 for an hour, then, of course, it is better not to go to Kiev for a weekend and save the $1000 of travel costs. For one hour of sex with a beautiful girl on a weekend, you should remain home in Geneva and do that occasionally there. But.

_______ if someone from Geneva, or New York for that matter, wants to fuck 8 to 10 such beautiful girls on a 4 night weekend, and to be with each girl for 2 or 3 hours at least, and some girls for overnight, then such a "sex mongering weekend" will cost an extremely large and prohibitive amount of money to accomplish in Geneva or New York. However, because of the lower prices for sex with very beautiful girls in a place like Kiev, even adding in the $1000 of travel costs, it becomes possible to have such a "sex mongering weekend" with multiple girls and multiple hour dates, at a total cost that is sustainable.

So stay home if you are satisfied with just a 1 or 2 hour interlude with a high priced beauty on a weekend, once in a while. But if you want to experience a multiple girl (8 or more) 4 night sex mongering weekend, with long multiple hour dates, at a doable cost, you can only do this in a place like Kiev, where the hourly rates are much lower than Geneva or New York.

LJ

Iceberg27
10-04-13, 13:58
Sevastopol or Kyiv / Chisinau / Moscow.

I have 5 days vacation from 16. 10 to 21. 10. 2013.

I check from accuweather Moscow is freezing. Below 0 °C Chisinau and Sevastopol is above 10 °C

I have been in Moscow before it's big city with surprises. I am again mostly after freebies. I am waiting your comments that the fun available there. Which one would you have chosen?

Manny51
10-04-13, 17:03
HSV-1 is common, and on my most recent I got that and gonorrhea. But the simple reason for that is the condom felled off while having sex and I licked something I shouldn't have. If you don't lick or your condom doesn't fall. You should be fine.

But sex is funnier when you do it raw.Thanks for the response.

I have always wanted to visit EE. But strangely, there are some countries / cities for which the forums consistently post reports or discussions about STDs, or something going around. The Phillipines is numero uno in that regard. I also noted Kiev as another. Just curious.

And BTW, was the gonorrhea the drug resistent type? Or did the penicillin clear it up?

CastOnThis
10-05-13, 14:50
Thanks for the response.

I have always wanted to visit EE. But strangely, there are some countries / cities for which the forums consistently post reports or discussions about STDs, or something going around. The Phillipines is numero uno in that regard. I also noted Kiev as another. Just curious.

And BTW, was the gonorrhea the drug resistent type? Or did the penicillin clear it up?Not the drug resistant type.

Milan96
10-05-13, 18:49
Beauty is in the eyes of beholder.

In my experience, may Europeans prefer Filipina or Thais, whereas may Asian would prefer European.

Passive or active is also relative. Common complaint about CIS is that they rarely stay overnight.

Excluding top-model, escort-model and mamba, Ukrainian women are cheaper in Dubai / Bangkok / KL thank in Ukraine.

Ukraine, Belorussia, Poland, Check and Russian Slavs are ethnically same people hence density of beautiful woman is irrelevant.

One relevant thing I forgot to mention was the expensive hotels in Kiev.

I am not trying to promote Thailand over Ukraine but simply try to state the fact that different people have different choices.Here is link to list of Victoria Secret Models of last decades.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Victoria

%E2%80%99s-Secret-Models.

Do you know how many of same are Thai? Yes. Zero.

So, one must have a very ideosyncratic taste to prefer Thai over Eastern European women.

It's true, Thai stay more likely overnight, but just because the alternative would be to sleep in a tiny flat without AC and 3 room mates, and most of them are masters in turning away from you.

You can rarely find any EE women in Thailand, and if there are definitely not cheaper than in Kiev.

Of course density matters, the price is the equilibration between demand and offer.

It is true, Kiev hotels are expensive, but that can be circumvented by appartments.

Manny51
10-05-13, 18:53
The Swiss franc is similar to a US Dollar, and the cost considerations are similar. You are correct in pointing out that there will be travel costs and time involved in going to Kiev for a long 4 night / 5 day weekend, for example. I would estimate about $1, 000 USD in airfare and luxury apartment rental costs.

But I think you are missing something here. If you are satisfied with indulging infrequently in one hour of sex with a very expensive high class beauty in Geneva every once in a while, who costs between $600 to $1000 for an hour, then, of course, it is better not to go to Kiev for a weekend and save the $1000 of travel costs. For one hour of sex with a beautiful girl on a weekend, you should remain home in Geneva and do that occasionally there. But.

So stay home if you are satisfied with just a 1 or 2 hour interlude with a high priced beauty on a weekend, once in a while. But if you want to experience a multiple girl (8 or more) 4 night sex mongering weekend, with long multiple hour dates, at a doable cost, you can only do this in a place like Kiev, where the hourly rates are much lower than Geneva or New York.

LJAgree. Some guys get so flabbergasted by "sticker shock" that they don't do the math, or appreciate the fact that their money buys them a new experience in a faraway country.

But for me, honestly, what gives me pause is the apparent STD thing.

LilJoey
10-05-13, 20:09
Agree. Some guys get so flabbergasted by "sticker shock" that they don't do the math, or appreciate the fact that their money buys them a new experience in a faraway country.

But for me, honestly, what gives me pause is the apparent STD thing.I'm not sure what you are referring to by the "apparent STD thing". STD's are a concern generally, all over the world, including in your country of origin. So, staying home, or traveling, if you are a sex monger, you are engaging in sexual conduct, and therefore you are fully prepared to undertake the small risk of STD's. To minimize the risk, a condom should be used for intercourse. Some judgment should be exercised in selecting which girl to engage in sex with. But these measures are required when having sex in your home country too. The concern over STD's is not a reason not to travel, in my view. Many Kiev girls insist on using a condom for blow job also. While in the German FKK's the standard and the norm is uncovered blow job and deep throat. Now thinking about how many naked unprotected cocks have been inside the mouth of each girl working at an FKK, might give you pause, but things are merry at the FKK's and many continue to enthusiastically enjoy the FKK's.

How are you having sex at home in your country of origin?

SBTiger
10-06-13, 06:42
I am not sure what 'standard Swiss salary' affords 35 CHF beer or 9, 500 CHF champagne. These joints could be afforded by high rollers and bankers whoever etc but definitely not by the mongerers.

Ukrainian / Hungarian chicks are well advertised 100-200 CHF in Geneva / Zurich.


No tourist trap my friend, this is closely regulated and legally nobody in these establishments can pressure you to pay money in these places (and the Swiss legal system is strictly enforced).

www.velvet-club.ch

90% of the chicks are from the FSU, with Ukraine being the biggest source. These establishments exist all over Switzerland, but this one is probably the most expensive around.

1 glass of beer= 35 CHF (39 USD)

1 glass of orange juice= 25 CHF (28 USD)

Wide selection of champagne, all the way up to 9'500 CHF for a bottle (10'560 USD).

May seem like a rip-off, but not too bad for those on standard Swiss salaries and considering the fact that you don't need to pay for a flight to Kiev and a place to stay for a few days (and the time to fly).

Uoykucf
10-06-13, 13:26
She came back yesterday afternoon, I did what you said to keep the price down for everyone; so I gave her 200 this time to even it out. She stayed for 2 and 1/2 hours and this time was even better, real GFE and porn star sex right out of the movies. But guess what she wasn't happy and she said there won't be next time! She complained: 'You sexed me and blah blah. ' It was very unpleasant.

Well, she did suck my cock on the wing chair, and I did f*ck her on the huge boardroom dining table, on the love seat, on the sectional couch in the livingroom and ended up in one of the three bedrooms with more f*cking and DFK, with ending right out of the porno movies.

Probably can't see her anymore, but I did even it out with last time in order to keep the prices down for you guys. I can only hope everyone else on this board will do the same to keep the prices down for all you guys out there in the years to come.

Cheers.No problem. One day later, I found another 19 years old good-looking blond pink pussy, who has a regular job. She has big nice perky tits just like the other one but bigger and is also 100% real GFE. In the middle of our sex randevu, she even said: 'Yours is big! ' I said: 'really! I thought mine is just normal size. ' She said: 'Normal size is 14cm. ' Is that right? Maybe I watched too many American porno films. Most cocks in the films look just as big as mine. I licked her pussy and f*ck her on the huge boardroom dining table, she sucked my cock and rode me on the loveseat, then I f*ck her and she did PTM on the sectional couch in the livingroom and I f*ck her again, and we ended up in one of the three bedrooms with more f*cking and DFK. Though she does CIM but I blew a huge load, CIP and then stick my cock in her mouth. She stayed for 2 to 2 and ½ hours, and I gave her 800. She kissed me and said goodbye before she went into the cab.

Manny51
10-06-13, 17:02
I'm not sure what you are referring to by the "apparent STD thing". STD's are a concern generally, all over the world, including in your country of origin. So, staying home, or traveling, if you are a sex monger, you are engaging in sexual conduct, and therefore you are fully prepared to undertake the small risk of STD's. To minimize the risk, a condom should be used for intercourse. Some judgment should be exercised in selecting which girl to engage in sex with. But these measures are required when having sex in your home country too. The concern over STD's is not a reason not to travel, in my view. Many Kiev girls insist on using a condom for blow job also. While in the German FKK's the standard and the norm is uncovered blow job and deep throat. Now thinking about how many naked unprotected cocks have been inside the mouth of each girl working at an FKK, might give you pause, but things are merry at the FKK's and many continue to enthusiastically enjoy the FKK's.

How are you having sex at home in your country of origin?Of course, I definitely agree that STDs are a risk anywhere in the world, and I always use common sense safe sex practices.

However, I think that it is also true that there are definitely places in the world where the overall prevalence of STDs is higher. And it can be for any of a variety of reasons: sexual culture, whether the locale is a punting hq, standards of health care and education, etc.

For example, I would agree that Germany FKKs are a higher risk arena. Also, in the PI, uncovered sex is the accepted norm, and sex education is generally very poor.

I don't know about Kiev and the Ukraine. That's why I am asking. If you read the Kiev forum backwards for a few years, you will definitely see conversation about STDs, in my opinion, more than average. And what I have read is not flattering.

If you think my observation is wrong, then just explain. I am asking.

LilJoey
10-06-13, 20:02
Of course, I definitely agree that STDs are a risk anywhere in the world, and I always use common sense safe sex practices.

However, I think that it is also true that there are definitely places in the world where the overall prevalence of STDs is higher. And it can be for any of a variety of reasons: sexual culture, whether the locale is a punting hq, standards of health care and education, etc.

For example, I would agree that Germany FKKs are a higher risk arena. Also, in the PI, uncovered sex is the accepted norm, and sex education is generally very poor.

I don't know about Kiev and the Ukraine. That's why I am asking. If you read the Kiev forum backwards for a few years, you will definitely see conversation about STDs, in my opinion, more than average. And what I have read is not flattering.

If you think my observation is wrong, then just explain. I am asking.Please bring to my attention the links to the reports about STD's in Kiev or Ukraine being of special concern, that you refer to, so I can review them. I am unaware. So I am asking.

Stevie69
10-06-13, 22:45
I have also learned not only to confirm everything, but also never try to have a threesome unless I have already had a great experience with one of the girls.


Just a warning for those using mamba. Ru to beware of several scammers I had the misfortune of meeting:

Valerie.

http://www.mamba.ru/mb765366493?hit=3

Correspondence on mamba was carried on in English. Photos were emailed. Details of meeting, including mutual oral sex (DATY or 69) were discussed in mamba messages. When I received the email photo and saw it was different than the girl (s) in the profile photos, I saw that Valerie was not any of the girls in the profile photos. (but see attached-she looked pretty good). I asked Valerie on mamba, who was the girl in the profile photos in the jeans in front of the tree with flowers, and she said it was her friend, Julia, whom she informed me she had already had sex with.

Learn from mistakes.

And don't be discouraged from using mamba, because overall my experiences have been great. I'm only posting the photos of the bad apples.

Photo 1. The emailed photo of Valerie. She never showed up.

Photos 2 and 3. The photos Valerie identified as her friend Julia. A girl very similar looking did show up, with an older blonde, but was a bad apple, with limited service.

LJ

Kirch
10-08-13, 19:30
Just got back from a 6 days trip to Kiev. Checked my passport and counting, it has been about 4. 5 months of experience in Kiev. But lately I got lazy, instead of trying new things I do what I think is the best for a short trip. Don't waste time in Kiev! In 5 Nights I did 4 nights Rio! But it was worth it. Arriving on Wednesday, I started with Rio, I always do for the first Night. It was incredible how crowded it was and how many beautiful (new) girls I saw. By the way, they told me they closed the Basement area due to technical reasons. Well, In Germany this means they don't fill up anymore all 3 areas. But I don't believe actually.

So first night I took two girls because I couldn't decide. Everything like always. I bought whiskey and Bacardi, had a nice apartment and put on ru music on Tv. Lots of conversation in something like Russenglish. In the end I had 2 beautiful girls doing a really really good job and stayed about 4. 5 hrs.

Next day I had a big hang over so I decided to do some work on my laptop and started with mamba and massage salons. I don't do anymore topmodals and other webpages alike as it is a waste of time. Only thing you can do is to call about 5 girls / agencies at the same time and wait what comes and hopefully comes within the next 2 hrs. I wrote here before that I'm convinced that this is a new strategy to earn money. They send around the ugly girls from apartment / hotel to apartment / hotel and as most of the mongers send those ugly girls away, they have at the end of the day about 1,500 Griwnas in their pocket. Because too many of you give them 50 or 100 Griwna for Taxi. I don't pay anything when I don't get what I asked for.

So I tried out mamba after a long time. It started very well and was chatting with two nice girls which were obviously neither Agencies nor 'this is not really my picture' girls. But as always I was looking for the perfect one and continued writing to most beautiful ones. No answer or whatever. It takes so much time and you really don't know who is showing up. In addition some of them want to meet before at a bar or Restaurant. So I tried to catch the two girls from before. But (like always) they were not online since then. I hate. So I moved over to massage salons, like Dolly or hotmassage. But I had to notice that the beauty ones are gone. In addition I had an Hotel address that no Taxi driver knows! Hotmassage for instance is for me the best massage salon but far outside the city, so I don't go there and in return the Taxi driver don't know Tarassa Shevchenko Lane near Maidan! Lazy people.

By the way, Senator Apartment Maidan was ok with 50% Discount but I would never pay the price they normally charge!

End of the story, I met with a guy I met here on ISG. First we went to Mafia and later to Buddha Bar. And this was quite an experience. Over the last years I've been to Buddha Bar many times at different days and different times but I never saw really nice girls. This Thursday evening at around 10:00 pm it was packed with beautiful girls. I was told later that only a few are allowed to work there. The rest are not allowed and obviously pretend to eat or drink something there. Few of them you can in fact not approach as they start their evening from there. I was tired this evening so went to bed early.

Friday and Saturday I went to Rio because of the many stunning girls I've seen on Wednesday there. But on those two days Rio was empty! Not many men and a lot of girls but almost only not really nice ones. My conclusion was, they were away for the weekend. I took out on both days a girl which was great but the only ones there.

On Sunday I thought they should have been back in town and headed back to Rio around 10:00 pm. Surprise, again empty and not nice skinny young girls. So I sent message to one of the Managers I know from Mandarin and asked and he said they are at Mandarin. I got a free taxi ride and no entrance fee to Mandarin. And there she was. Dasha! For my personal rating a 9! She agreed to come with me and it was an outstanding experience. I had similar experiences before at Rio (even the days before) but she was special. I won't tell more.

A great last night in Kiev. Now back in Germany I plan my next trip to Kiev. Let me tell you something: In Germany we have beautiful girls from here and coming from everywhere. We have FFK Clubs, etc. But what they don't have in Germany and elsewhere is the passion and the Beauty! Right now the German FKK clubs (for instance) are packed with Romanian girls and Countries alike. For me the service is not good and they are not so beautiful as from Ukraine or Russia.

This thread is for all the fellows here who are looking for really nice, beautiful, skinny and passionate girls.

LilJoey
10-08-13, 20:14
I have also learned not only to confirm everything, but also never try to have a threesome unless I have already had a great experience with one of the girls.Yes, Stevie69, one of my own principles, which I believe in too, based on multiple personal experiences. And I violated that one too. My reason for doing it was that the low prices of $80 / hour and $300 / night that were asked, combined with the emailed photo (Photo 1 attached previously) showing a really good looking girl, who identified the girl in Photo 2 as her real friend, Julia, also a very sexy beauty, plus the open discussion and playfulness about the mutual oral sex and enjoying DATY, as well as classic sex, conjured up hopes and imaginations of an awesome experience to come. I was seduced by the amazing possibilities. I guess what fooled me was the inference I made from the emailed photo. Why would someone who used a fake photo on mamba, bother to email an additional fake photo of another girl, when it would be exposed ultimately at a meeting? Why not just suffice with the mamba photos and refuse to email additional photos as all the other fakers do? The extra effort to email different photos makes no sense. So that was the logic which encouraged me to believe that the emailed photo was real. And when a girl who really looked just like Photo 2 and was gorgeous actually showed up, I assumed it was really the Julia whom Valerie had said was her bisexual friend. At that moment I had concluded (wrongly, it seems) that I was dealing with a real girl with whom I had communicated on mamba. It just didn't come into my brain that I was dealing with an agency sending girls unrelated to fake photos, in which case all discussions and communications on mamba would not have been with the actual girl. It was a gigantic mistake on my part. I merely recite how I came to make the mistake, so others can see how easy it can be to be fooled and lulled into seduction by the possibility of sex with a really pretty girl in one's apartment. I could have had sex with her, but without DATY. But once started on a negative direction of refusing an agreed service, I just felt it best to terminate, and salvage at least half the money, rather than risk an ugly confrontation, when I had read about instances where the police use such situations to side with the girl and extort large sums from foreigners.

AZN Monger
10-09-13, 05:12
I've been with many stunning girls, both personally and as a semi-monger, but I hit the mother of all jackpots. While a beautiful girl is not rare in Kiev, a 26 year old that is beautiful. Slim. Leggy. That speaks English fluently, well travelled, cultured and has a good career in Ukraine is. On top of that, she (was) on Mamba for a short period of time. She needed some money this week for reasons I can't disclose, but it took a small dinner and $150 for her to stay the entire night. This girl is a 10+. The only negative I could ever come up with is a small tattoo she has (my preference in being no tattoos whatsoever).

Orgasms were so strong. Probably from her wonderful foreplay. I told her to finish me off by riding me on top during one of our sessions, and it was the first time I almost came and chuckled at the same time. Something about the Ukrainian accent when she said in English,"Oh my god, fuck my Slavic pussy!".

Climaxnow
10-09-13, 13:09
By the way, they told me they closed the Basement area due to technical reasons. Well, In Germany this means they don't fill up anymore all 3 areas. But I don't believe actually.One year ago, I walk by Rio every night for a month and always busy with cars outside. This year, I walk by Rio every night for a month and completely dead. Kiev no longer the p4p city of yesterday.

Global Surfer
10-10-13, 00:57
Here is link to list of Victoria Secret Models of last decades.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_von_Victoria

%E2%80%99s-Secret-Models.

Do you know how many of same are Thai? Yes. Zero.

So, one must have a very ideosyncratic taste to prefer Thai over Eastern European women.

It's true, Thai stay more likely overnight, but just because the alternative would be to sleep in a tiny flat without AC and 3 room mates, and most of them are masters in turning away from you.

You can rarely find any EE women in Thailand, and if there are definitely not cheaper than in Kiev.

Of course density matters, the price is the equilibration between demand and offer.

It is true, Kiev hotels are expensive, but that can be circumvented by appartments.You can find Ukrainian, Russian, Kazak, Uzbek, Columbians and Africans in Thailand.

For beuty just look at the result of Miss World contest and you would realize how many Ukriaians (Slavik) has won

Global Surfer
10-10-13, 01:04
Thanks for the response.

I have always wanted to visit EE. But strangely, there are some countries / cities for which the forums consistently post reports or discussions about STDs, or something going around. The Phillipines is numero uno in that regard. I also noted Kiev as another. Just curious.

And BTW, was the gonorrhea the drug resistent type? Or did the penicillin clear it up?STDs in almost all countries are under reported.

It should be of concern only if you are planning not to use condom.

In the presence of condom your risk is reduced as condom burst rates is around 1. 5 to 3%

The real risk, in my opinion, is HIV, Hepatitis B and Hepatitis C.

You can get vaccination against Hepatitis B only.

Sub-Saharan Africa has the highest rate of HIV only to be followed by Central and South Africa.

Ukraine has highest rate in Europe

Horny Monger
10-11-13, 18:36
You missed a major point: The density of beautiful women is nowhere in Europe (or even the world) higher than in Kiev. For the taste of a common Western monger, Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls. In addition, girls from Thailand are usually quite passive, where Ukrainian semi-pros from Mamba or discos are more pro-active.There we go again.

Oh, really? I've been in Kiev when the weather's nice and warm and sat on the benches on Kreschatik street many times, where many women walked by with little clothing, but I tell you the number of beautiful women sighted by members of this board are greatly exaggerated. There are beauitful women there but not any more than other major EE capitals or certain western european capitals. Actually, I was disappointed after all the hypes on this board. Maybe in the darkness of the night after a couple of beers and drinks, suddenly many more beautiful women appear before mongers' eyes. As they said, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder. LOL.

However, this I do agree with Milan1: "Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls." But then again in the darkness of the night, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder. So who knows after enough beers and drinks.

Horny Monger
10-11-13, 18:46
Beauty is in the eyes of beholder.

In my experience, may Europeans prefer Filipina or Thais, whereas may Asian would prefer European.

Passive or active is also relative. Common complaint about CIS is that they rarely stay overnight.

Excluding top-model, escort-model and mamba, Ukrainian women are cheaper in Dubai / Bangkok / KL thank in Ukraine.

Ukraine, Belorussia, Poland, Check and Russian Slavs are ethnically same people hence density of beautiful woman is irrelevant.

One relevant thing I forgot to mention was the expensive hotels in Kiev.

I am not trying to promote Thailand over Ukraine but simply try to state the fact that different people have different choices.More accurately, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder.

Global Surfer is right the density of beautiful woman is irrelevant. There are beauitful women there but not any more than other major EE capitals or certain western european capitals. Actually, I was disappointed after all the hypes on this board.

Like I said, I've been in Kiev when the weather's nice and warm and sat on the benches on Kreschatik street many times, where many women walked by with little clothing, but I tell you the number of beautiful women sighted by members of this board are greatly exaggerated. Maybe in the darkness of the night after a couple of beers and drinks, suddenly many more beautiful women appear before mongers' eyes. As they said, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder. LOL.

Ronaldinjo
10-11-13, 22:06
More accurately, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder.

Global Surfer is right the density of beautiful woman is irrelevant. There are beauitful women there but not any more than other major EE capitals or certain western european capitals. Actually, I was disappointed after all the hypes on this board.

Like I said, I've been in Kiev when the weather's nice and warm and sat on the benches on Kreschatik street many times, where many women walked by with little clothing, but I tell you the number of beautiful women sighted by members of this board are greatly exaggerated. Maybe in the darkness of the night after a couple of beers and drinks, suddenly many more beautiful women appear before mongers' eyes. As they said, beauty is in the eyes of the beer holder. LOL.In which certain western European capitals exactly have you seen as many beautifull women in the streets as in Kiev? I'm very curious, maybe I have missed something LOL. As for density of women, it is true that in Ukraine the density of beautiful is more than most (IMHO) countries in EE (and most probably in the world). I have been to most of the countries, including chzech republic and Slovakia (hot girls, but not as many beautifull faces as in Ukraine, not even close) , Poland (hotter girls than in Chzech republic but less than Ukraine) , Romania and Bulgaria (darker, but not as hot) , Russia (a lot of beauties, but not so many as in Ukraine-even many Russians admit that Ukrainian women are more beautiful than Russian. Is it true that beauty is in the eyes of beholder and more exactly in the eyes of the beer beholder, and its true for all places in the world.

Horny Monger
10-12-13, 11:16
In which certain western European capitals exactly have you seen as many beautifull women in the streets as in Kiev? I'm very curious, maybe I have missed something LOL. As for density of women, it is true that in Ukraine the density of beautiful is more than most (IMHO) countries in EE (and most probably in the world). I have been to most of the countries, including chzech republic and Slovakia (hot girls, but not as many beautifull faces as in Ukraine, not even close) , Poland (hotter girls than in Chzech republic but less than Ukraine) , Romania and Bulgaria (darker, but not as hot) , Russia (a lot of beauties, but not so many as in Ukraine-even many Russians admit that Ukrainian women are more beautiful than Russian. Is it true that beauty is in the eyes of beholder and more exactly in the eyes of the beer beholder, and its true for all places in the world.That you shall find out for yourself, my friend.

Looks like you're a face man. I tend to look at beauty on an overall level, that is face and body together.

Only talking about faces: Below is just IMHO.

This is all on a general level.
I do agree that more Ukrainian girls tend to have beautiful face. Actually, more precisely is that Ukrainian female faces have more of the desirable features of a beautiful western European female look. Some Czech girls' faces have the same features of a beautiful western European female look, also. Generally, Czech girls have the EE / Czech look and are slim. Face-wise, Polish girls in general look less attractive than the Czechs overall. Many Russian girls have beautiful faces too; thus face-wise look better than the Czechs and Poles. Personally, I don't care for Romania and Bulgaria (darker, whether hot or not) ; so I haven't been there yet.

If you really want high density of beauty, go to Hollywood California, especially at night in the hot clubs; they're loads of them!

LilJoey
10-12-13, 15:54
That you shall find out for yourself, my friend.

Looks like you're a face man. I tend to look at beauty on an overall level, that is face and body together.

Only talking about faces: Below is just IMHO.

This is all on a general level.

I do agree that more Ukrainian girls tend to have beautiful face. Actually, more precisely is that Ukrainian female faces have more of the desirable features of a beautiful western European female look. Some Czech girls' faces have the same features of a beautiful western European female look, also. Generally, Czech girls have the EE / Czech look and are slim. Face-wise, Polish girls in general look less attractive than the Czechs overall. Many Russian girls have beautiful faces too; thus face-wise look better than the Czechs and Poles. Personally, I don't care for Romania and Bulgaria (darker, whether hot or not) ; so I haven't been there yet.

If you really want high density of beauty, go to Hollywood California, especially at night in the hot clubs; they're loads of them!Why are you and Global Surfer so exercised over pinpointing where on the globe the higher female beauty density might be? Milan1's statements remain accurate, despite all that you have written. He wrote:


You missed a major point: The density of beautiful women is nowhere in Europe (or even the world) higher than in Kiev. For the taste of a common Western monger, Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls. In addition, girls from Thailand are usually quite passive, where Ukrainian semi-pros from Mamba or discos are more pro-active.Let's examine these statements one by one. He wrote,"The density of beautiful women is nowhere in Europe (or even the world) higher than in Kiev." This is language commonly used in advertising products, and indeed is calculated to be slightly deceptive to the consumer who is not paying attention to the words. But an intelligent person knows that there is a difference between the statement "Kiev has the highest beauty density" and the statement "no where else has a higher beauty density than Kiev." Now put on your thinking caps, gentlemen, and learn to improve your reading comprehension, and understand the meaning of words.

So the fact that other countries like Russia, Belarus, Poland, Latvia, Lithuania, Czech Republic, Slovak Republic, Hungary etc. All share the same EE genetic heritage of Ukrainian women, and many hot women abound in all these countries, is a truth that no one is debating. Milan1 merely stated than no where else is better than Kiev. In other words, Kiev is at the top level in this aspect. But yes, everyone concedes there are also hot women elsewhere. All your words to establish this are not necessary, since no one said otherwise.

And it also depends very much on which cross-section of the population you observe and examine. If you want to see "hot body" and "beautiful", go look at the girls from ages 18 to mid-20's that are going out to nightclubs on a weekend. There you will see, in whatever country you are doing this, the best and the most good looking cross-section of the female population of that society. They are mostly still slim and skinny at that age, and the natural shape that their genetic heritage passed on to them is there for you to examine in all it's glory. So of course, at our age as mongers, when we behold the abundance of girls who are young, hot and beautiful, in the nightclubs of every society, it will make our heads spin and our loins yearn for times past, whether it is in L. A. Or in NYC or London, Paris, Amsterdam, Vienna, Berlin, Warsaw, Moscow or Kiev etc. Hot girls are hot girls in every locale.

The more important point you boys are glossing over and not touching on, is that in a place like Kiev it is possible to have both a p4p sex experience, as well as even a freebie sex experience, with many more of these hot young girls, than you could have in other places. Yes, there are hot young women in many other genetically similar countries. But you cannot have them, dear monger. However, in Kiev, for a variety of reasons and factors, it is more possible to have sex with such young hot girls. That is the only point worth discussing for a monger.

The only other statement made by Milan1 that I want to comment on is his statement,"For the taste of a common Western monger, Ukrainian women should appear by far more attractive than Thai girls." I think this is obviously true. If you really think that most Western European men prefer the type of beauty typical of Asian looking Thai women to the type of beauty personified by EE beauties to be found in places like Ukraine, then the only way to settle such a matter is to conduct a poll. But the price of sex in each locale should tell you something. If the price is very low, it means that the market for that product will not sustain a price that is higher because the demand is not strong enough. In other words, if the price was raised too high for that market, no one would buy. There is so much supply. So some of those suppliers will lower their price and that will cause some to buy. The rules of supply and demand in a free market are economic laws of human behavior. The supply and demand of any commodity will find a point of equilibrium at the proper price. So the fact that the price is so low in Thailand can be a result of the fact that there is an over abundance of supply of hot young pussy for sex. But it also can partly be a factor of the level of demand for that type of pussy, with the beauty characteristics of such pussy playing an important role in creating that demand. So the fact that Ukrainian pussy costs more than Thai pussy, may create an inference as to the way men generally regard the beauty level of each type of pussy. It's not the strongest argument, because there are many other factors that could influence the price of Thai pussy aside from beauty, but it is an inference one can make. I personally agree with Milan1 that EE beauty is more attractive to me than other types of beauty. But it is subjective. And I believe that most Western men would see things the way I do. But it is really a moot point. Those who like the look of Thai women more than they like EE women from Kiev, will simply go to Thailand to monger, and will write on the Thai thread how much they like it. And those who enjoy Kiev more, will monger here and write about it on this thread. What does praising the beauty of Thai women on a Kiev thread accomplish? It doesn't change my opinion of what I consider beautiful subjectively. You will find no converts here. The only factor that may attract some is the low prices, but as for beauty, a Kiev monger knows where it's at already.

My own two cents.

LJ

Chazman1
10-13-13, 00:10
Looking for a wingman in Kiev. Anyone in town? Here for 4 days. PM me.

Cheers

Protocol
10-14-13, 11:51
Anybody know anything about the nightclub Disco Radio Hall. I think its out of the center. I browsed the photo gallery and its packed with lots of hotties. Unfortunately, it is also packed with local guys. Seems to be the place where girls go to be out of sight of foreigners. Is it worth a trip? Safe?It's right beside Mandarin and the Mandarin restaurant. So close that when you get out of the taxi the doormen will ask you what you're looking for and direct you to the right door.

I was at Mandarin on Saturday. Good number of people there, dancers were 6-8, not as good as what I've seen there before.

When leaving the club around 1am, there was an incredible mass of people around Radio Hall I assume waiting to get in. And yes, it was local-local-local young men and young girls. I'd say 25 and under crowd. But there had to be like 200 people outside waiting to get in. Anyway you can go to Mandarin and then just eyeball the situation over there but I think it's probably going to be very drunk. The drunk 25 year olds screaming at each other on Kreshatik is about all I want to deal with. I don't want to be packed into a club with them with that kind of density, and given international "club" standards I'm always worried in this kind of situation what happens with a fire, etc.

If you're under 30 though you could probably go in there and have fun, it reminded me of a place in Minsk where people were friendly and not eyeballing you like you were out of place though you obviously were.

Climaxnow
10-14-13, 16:54
I found Kiev to be a disappointment this year. Just could not find hot sex. It felt like the days before the internet review forums where it was a struggle to find a quality prostitute. It's not a big deal to loose a $100 on a poor performer but it will hurt if the girl is $200 plus and she provides bad service.

Anybody care to post a small list of other Ukraine cities that are cheaper and do not cross the line into shit hole?

Climaxnow
10-14-13, 17:59
If you're under 30 though you could probably go in there and have fun, it reminded me of a place in Minsk where people were friendly and not eyeballing you like you were out of place though you obviously were.The nightclubs were the other half of my "it was ok" trip. I either felt too old (Indigo, Arena) , tagged a monger by door person (decadence, skybar) , or contributed to the dick fiesta (D'Lux). No more the day of many girls waiting in face control. Only places comfortable were the three main prostitute bars. Vodka Bar, Shooters, and Caribbean.

Prostitute bar does not mean like Moscow Night Flight. Most of the women in these places would sleep for money if you have some game and met their criteria.

Kirch
10-14-13, 18:25
Totally agree! I was first time in Russia 1999. St Petesburg and Moscow full of stunning girls want to have sex and they did like they are your girlfriend. May be they asked for some money next morning and some didn't even. Those good old times are over! I guess you have to go to smaller cities but (as posted here thousend times) you have to speak Russian! But on the other side I remember Saint Peterburg 15 years ago meeting girls on the street when I was trying to find my way home to the Hotel late at night. We talked in sign language and had fun though. For myself, I adapted to the present time and be ok with what I have in Kiev. That's why I go to Rio, I ask the manager about 20 times every evening to send a girl to my sofa in order to get to know her. And I only take the onces that really like me or they are so stunning that at least it is an optic f.


I found Kiev to be a disappointment this year. Just could not find hot sex. It felt like the days before the internet review forums where it was a struggle to find a quality prostitute. It's not a big deal to loose a $100 on a poor performer but it will hurt if the girl is $200 plus and she provides bad service.

Anybody care to post a small list of other Ukraine cities that are cheaper and do not cross the line into shit hole?

Kirch
10-14-13, 18:30
Radio Hall is still on my to do list. Every time I was entering or leaving Mandarin I noticed all those beautiful girls outside waiting for taxi or entrance. It looks like only local people go there but I guess it's worth a try.


It's right beside Mandarin and the Mandarin restaurant. So close that when you get out of the taxi the doormen will ask you what you're looking for and direct you to the right door.

I was at Mandarin on Saturday. Good number of people there, dancers were 6-8, not as good as what I've seen there before.

When leaving the club around 1am, there was an incredible mass of people around Radio Hall I assume waiting to get in. And yes, it was local-local-local young men and young girls. I'd say 25 and under crowd. But there had to be like 200 people outside waiting to get in. Anyway you can go to Mandarin and then just eyeball the situation over there but I think it's probably going to be very drunk. The drunk 25 year olds screaming at each other on Kreshatik is about all I want to deal with. I don't want to be packed into a club with them with that kind of density, and given international "club" standards I'm always worried in this kind of situation what happens with a fire, etc.

If you're under 30 though you could probably go in there and have fun, it reminded me of a place in Minsk where people were friendly and not eyeballing you like you were out of place though you obviously were.

SBTiger
10-14-13, 18:52
Based on all that I read I have not concluded that Kiev is easier (and definitely not cheaper) , at the end of the day we are only taking about P4P sex. I didn't read anywhere that you could pick girls on streets or bars or even mamba. (the below report by Climaxnow is another negative testament).


Yes, there are hot young women in many other genetically similar countries. But you cannot have them, dear monger. However, in Kiev, for a variety of reasons and factors, it is more possible to have sex with such young hot girls. That is the only point worth discussing for a monger.I fully agree demand and supply setting the price. Supply seems to be low in Kiev- despite supposed abundance of woman. Many factors contribute to supply- Legal, cultural, economic system. Lots of Ukr woman would not prefer to work locally and prefer working outside of Ukr- for obvious reasons (In today's open world they can go out). You can find lot more Ukr woman in many outside places- incl Germany, Austria, Spain, etc etc (and at much cheaper prices). Have not been to Kiev so will not comment on local quality- I will take LJs word on quality. Kiev not being a major business or tourist or mongering location- demand definitely can not be high in Kiev. So higher prices in Kiev are simply lack of supply.


If the price is very low, it means that the market for that product will not sustain a price that is higher because the demand is not strong enough. In other words, if the price was raised too high for that market, no one would buy. There is so much supply. So some of those suppliers will lower their price and that will cause some to buy. The rules of supply and demand in a free market are economic laws of human behavior. The supply and demand of any commodity will find a point of equilibrium at the proper price. So the fact that the price is so low in Thailand can be a result of the fact that there is an over abundance of supply of hot young pussy for sex.- Thailand survives (and thrives) only because of complete ease and cheapness, despite low quality girls. Hard to ever find a girl above 5 (Disclaimer- tastes and preferences vary).

As a mongerer- I look at ease, reliability, cost, legal issues:

- Cost- Just not of the girl- but also travel, hotel, etc etc. Understand hotels are not at all cheap in Kiev. Travel costs would vary, but Kiev not being a Int'l airline hub- for long distance travelers- It would always be a lot costlier. +/-$20 cost difference per hr of girl typically would not even matter if hotel is $50+/day more and airline is $300+ more, + local transportation, etc etc. The cost aspects of Kiev totally backfire when people would be expecting much lower costs and realize it is completely the other way around - so the reaction is WTF.

- Ease and reliability- Based on what I read I would rank Kiev much lower than many places. Mamba and websites seem to be extremely unreliable, you are left with these few high priced clubs. More ever, everyone prefers to go to places that they 'understand'- either language, culture, geo, or have first (or good 2nd hand) experience with area. Kiev is yet to build that critical mass of credible information. (LJ is working on it).

- Legal- I don't know if prostitution is legal in Kiev (someone can please clarify). But as a westerner- we are somewhat skeptical of overall legal system in FSU. (last thing we want to end up is some silly legal situation).

Demand / Supply- Places that are 'easier' there would be great demand, supply will come along (from all over). Overall prices often are much lower, also better quality and variety- with girls and brothels actually making more money (volume). FKKs and brothels in Spain etc are very easy examples - great service, variety, quality, overall environment and experience.

I do respect LJs views and can see where he is coming from- and admire his zeal. But in my situation (overall) I have a somewhat different take. I wish I was nearby and could utilize LJs help to settle all this first hand;)

I don't know the correct analogy to settle all this- 'distant hills are green', 'fools gold', 'whatever floats your boat',.., but nevertheless healthy and informative debate. Monger on...

my 2 cents

Tomux 22
10-14-13, 22:25
Kiev dose not need to be expencive playground. But sure it cost. All is depended how you play your cards. As for my self I don't know a better place in Europe where I can go home with stunning girl even free of charge. And one thing is for sure, girls in UA know how to please a man. They basicly do anything for a man in bed, not to mention theyr looks and mental level. Thats whats kees me coming to Kiev, never ending adventure. What can be better then laying in bed with blondinka, drinking vodka and fucking. Tho my next adventure may happen in belarus or Usbekistan.
Going to Rio every night and taking a prostitute out without trying other options I will never understand. Its just simply burning money while supporting local mafia.

TexasMorrell
10-15-13, 04:02
Guys,

Let me tell you from the vast amount of time I have spent in the FSU, you are doing yourself a disservice by sticking to major cities. I can tell you my best experiences have been in the smaller cities.

For example, the last town I lived in, in Ukraine, was Vinnitsa. Its a military and university town so lots and lots of women. In addition is the fact that these girls have a different mentality from the big city girls. They are more down to Earth and less demanding with money. A bonus is they do not see a lot of foreigners like the girls in Kiev do so you are a bigger deal. Girls were coming up to me and talking to me on the street as soon as they heard my American Texas accent. I was an exotic commodity. Women never approached me on the streets in Kiev or Moscow or SPB for example.

You should never ever get a hotel. There are way too many apartments for rent in the FSU at a fraction of the cost. I cannot even remember the last time I stayed in a hotel in FSU. A good trick is to get a girl to rent you an apartment because she can get it at the native rate which is a lot lower than the tourist rate. She will mark it up a little but its still a lot cheaper, trust me. Plus no worrying about hotel security chasing off your girl or wanting a bribe to let you bring her to your room.

Another benefit is that everything is close by. You do not have to travel a long way to get to something. There is always an outdoor market nearby to buy anything you want dirt cheap. I never spent more than $5 / day for food to eat in my apartment and I bought fresh everyday. Everything is cheaper too. Food, clubs, drinks, everything is cheaper.

And do not worry about the number of girls. A Texas Ranger back in the 60's was asked by a reporter why he still carried a six shooter. He replied 'If you can't hit your target with 6 shots. 10 shots ain't going to help you any." Point being, if you cannot find a girl and get laid in a town of 800K you cannot get laid in a city of 2mil.

Do not be afraid to go in the winter also. Just bring warm clothes. Everything is cheaper in winter including plane tickets and apartments. And I kid you not, the women are more open and sexual in the cold. I cannot explain this but it is true! My ex-wife is Russian and she was always "nicer" when the weather was cold. She was a miserable ***** in the Texas heat. I always got pussy easier and more often in the FSU the colder the weather was. FSU women love the cold and they love their shubas and they love wearing nothing under them. I always prefer to travel to FSU in the dead of winter.

Good luck and stay positive.

TexasMorrell
10-15-13, 04:10
Totally agree! I was first time in Russia 1999. St Petesburg and Moscow full of stunning girls want to have sex and they did like they are your girlfriend. May be they asked for some money next morning and some didn't even. Those good old times are over! I guess you have to go to smaller cities but (as posted here thousend times) you have to speak Russian! But on the other side I remember Saint Peterburg 15 years ago meeting girls on the street when I was trying to find my way home to the Hotel late at Night. We talked in sign language and had fun though. For myself, I adapted to the present time and be ok with what I have in Kiev. That's why I go to Rio, I ask the manager about 20 times every evening to send a girl to my sofa in order to get to know her. And I only take the onces that really like me or they are so stunning that at least it is an optic f.I have to disagree about the speaking Russian thing in smaller cities. I never have trouble finding girls that spoke English in the smaller cities. In the FSU it was mandatory that children learned a language of the enemy starting in kindergarten. This meant English or German. All children in the FSU still study an enemy language of their choice. If you come across a girl that does not speak English its because she chose to study German instead. Do not let the language thing stop you from trying smaller towns. You will find plenty who speak English, trust me. Then there is another point to remember. Even with the language barrier I always got my point across and had fun doing it. I got good enough to carry on entire conversations using gestures. It works and if she is really into you she will not care. You will know what she wants. Just watch her face and her eyes, they will tell you all you need to know.

TexasMorrell
10-15-13, 05:08
I am an example of the idiots you are talking about.

I didn't need a guide in Kiev.

You just need more cum; so you can keep on cumming.

Let's face it; many of us can afford a guide but we just don't want one.

Unless the guide has a young pussy and you can get inside her pussy.

I think it's stupid to pay a guide while you can use that money to a better end.

Cheers.Agreed. If you want a guide just ask one of the girls you fuck to be your guide. She will gladly do it and you can fuck during the tour. They know all the spots for a little outdoor privacy. I fucked a girl on one of the river boat tours in Kiev because we were the only ones on the upper level. It was great!

TexasMorrell
10-15-13, 05:20
Exactly, it is because of people like him that the price are so higher now.Guys,

The prices are higher if you make them higher for yourself. Just say no! The prices re-set every 24 hours. If it is near closing time and they still have no bites they will come down on price, its as simple as that. They know just because they made $200 last night does not mean they will make $200 again the next night. They will take $75 if it means going home empty handed. I negotiate with shipping brokers every day and its the same thing. Prices change daily based on customer needs and and availability of trucks. If you pay a high price you have only yourself to blame, not the girls. Just consider yourself your own little market and you set the price, not the girls. Remember, most regular working girls make $600 / mo. You think they are going to pass up $75 for an hour fuck with a western guy? Not likely.

Reiner Otto
10-15-13, 16:57
Totally agree! I was first time in Russia 1999. St PetesburgHad a small software co in SPb already that time.

Are you in UA? I will be in Nikolaev end of this week, to stay for a month.

Horny Monger
10-15-13, 22:52
Based on all that I read I have not concluded that Kiev is easier (and definitely not cheaper) , at the end of the day we are only taking about P4P sex. I didn't read anywhere that you could pick girls on streets or bars or even mamba. (the below report by Climaxnow is another negative testament).

I fully agree demand and supply setting the price. Supply seems to be low in Kiev- despite supposed abundance of woman. Many factors contribute to supply- Legal, cultural, economic system. Lots of Ukr woman would not prefer to work locally and prefer working outside of Ukr- for obvious reasons (In today's open world they can go out). You can find lot more Ukr woman in many outside places- incl Germany, Austria, Spain, etc etc (and at much cheaper prices). Have not been to Kiev so will not comment on local quality- I will take LJs word on quality. Kiev not being a major business or tourist or mongering location- demand definitely can not be high in Kiev. So higher prices in Kiev are simply lack of supply.

- Thailand survives (and thrives) only because of complete ease and cheapness, despite low quality girls. Hard to ever find a girl above 5 (Disclaimer- tastes and preferences vary).

As a mongerer- I look at ease, reliability, cost, legal issues:

- Cost- Just not of the girl- but also travel, hotel, etc etc. Understand hotels are not at all cheap in Kiev. Travel costs would vary, but Kiev not being a Int'l airline hub- for long distance travelers- It would always be a lot costlier. +-$20 cost difference per hr of girl typically would not even matter if hotel is $50+/day more and airline is $300+ more, + local transportation, etc etc. The cost aspects of Kiev totally backfire when people would be expecting much lower costs and realize it is completely the other way around. So the reaction is WTF.

- Ease and reliability- Based on what I read I would rank Kiev much lower than many places. Mamba and websites seem to be extremely unreliable, you are left with these few high priced clubs. More ever, everyone prefers to go to places that they 'understand'- either language, culture, geo, or have first (or good 2nd hand) experience with area. Kiev is yet to build that critical mass of credible information. (LJ is working on it).

- Legal- I don't know if prostitution is legal in Kiev (someone can please clarify). But as a westerner- we are somewhat skeptical of overall legal system in FSU. (last thing we want to end up is some silly legal situation).

Demand / Supply- Places that are 'easier' there would be great demand, supply will come along (from all over). Overall prices often are much lower, also better quality and variety- with girls and brothels actually making more money (volume). FKKs and brothels in Spain etc are very easy examples. Great service, variety, quality, overall environment and experience.

I do respect LJs views and can see where he is coming from- and admire his zeal. But in my situation (overall) I have a somewhat different take. I wish I was nearby and could utilize LJs help to settle all this first hand.

I don't know the correct analogy to settle all this- 'distant hills are green', 'fools gold', 'whatever floats your boat'. , but nevertheless healthy and informative debate. Monger on.

my 2 centsThe above analysis is thoughtful and detailed. Certainly gives the would-be Kiev mongers something to think about.

Kiev is Not cheap if you want to live on Kreshatik St. – that's for sure. The apartment, I stayed in for example, costed $200 a night or $5000 a month. Nice apartments in the center on center Kreshatik easily cost $120 to $200 a night, depending the number of bedrooms and size. Quality western standard food / restaurants are not cheap either. There goes your main costs once you arrive in Kiev; so time starts to cost money. The longer it takes you to get girls you want the more it costs. So more money to get a quick pickup in clubs, etc is no more expensive than spending lots more time picking up girls elsewhere because of the daily cost of living.

If anyone wants to live cheap in Kiev, he / she will have to live in a less desirable neighborhood and far away from Kreshatik, where all the actions are. It'll take at least 30 minutes by bus to go to the city center, and it's going to be very inconvenient.

Horny Monger
10-16-13, 18:18
I think I agree with Milan1 who wrote that a comparison between Thailand and Kiev in terms of just the cost factor alone, really misses the point. But the point is not lost on those of us who lust for the type of beauty possessed by EE (Eastern European) women from places like Ukraine, Russia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia or Belarus, etc, which is that Thai women have an entirely different look and appeal.

I absolutely love and adore latina women and love sex with them, but I much prefer the beauty and look of EE women. Similarly, I have experienced the beauty of Korean women, but still much prefer the EE women's looks. When I say EE women, I also include Czech and Slovak women, Hungarian women, and the more swarthy types with darker shade of skin from places like Romania or even Bulgaria. It's just a personal subjective preference for the type of features that are characteristic of EE beauty.

So for someone like me, Thailand is not and equivalently desireable mongering destination as Kiev, simply because sex costs less there. Sex costs less in the Dominican Republic too, and there are hot women there too, but it is not as good a mongering destination to me in any way, as compared to going to Kiev.

But while we are at it comparing Kiev to Thailand, or to Geneva and Zurich, or to the German FKK's, may I share with you the opinion that London is in fact a location in which has gathered the creme de la creme of EE beauty.

Here is a photo of my favorite in London, Amelia from Poland, see attached. Or take a look at the others possible to bed in London on the londonescortguide. Com.

Amelia is a real beauty. But in London the costs are higher, so for Amelia it is 200 GBP / 1 hr. ($325 USD) , or 350 GBP / 2 hrs. ($568 USD) , which is a net rate of $284 / hr. Now for 1 hour of sex at FKK Palace in Frankfurt it would cost 175 Euro ($238 USD) , and for 2 hours of sex in FKK Palace with the most pretty girl there, it would cost only 275 Euro (including the 75 Euro entrance fee) , which is a net rate of 137. 50 Euro / hr, or $185. 40 USD / hr. At today's rates.

So each of you may now perform the mental excercise of asking yourselves this question: clearly Amelia in London is more beautiful than girls typically seen in any German FKK. But because of the greater beauty level of girls like Amelia in London, am I motivated to go to London and spend $325 USD for an hour with her, or $568 for 2 hours with her, or am I content to stay in Frankfurt's FKK Palace and spend 175 Euro ($238 USD) for 1 hour, or 275 Euro ($374 USD)? Is the extra beauty possible in London worth paying about $100 more per hour for it, to you?

I thought about it. And my answer was, occasionally. So I treat myself to a few of London's beauties whenever I have a stopover there and time allows.

To each his own.

Happy Mongering.

LJ

$325 for one hour is not too much but it's not a good deal.

Here's my "Amelia", which is only fraction of the cost mentioned in the post above. I met her 10 days after I arrived a couple of months ago. She looks even better than in the photos. I saw her over a dozen times for $62 (current exchange rate) each time, one hour meeting excl. Shower time, so full 60 min, no waste time talking, bullsh*t, just DFK, OWO, sex and sex and CIM with swallow. She has a body that super models will die for.

She has really perky tits, nice long legs and a really firm ass, which you can probably bounce a dime off and a really tight pussy, which made me cum CIP twice and always one final time CIM and she swallowed. After few times, she started to masterbate while I f*ck her from behind; from that time on, she always did. She came during sex, and afterward, I licked her pussy and she came again twisting her body and shaking. Then, I pulled her up to suck my cock and I came again in her mouth. One time, during CIM, it became CIM and COF, and some cum flew in her eyes , on her face and on her hair, and she got really pissed off, and said the “K” word out loud in her language. But she continued to see me:). I always stayed about 1 hour 10 min. She doesn't speak any English. She's really busy, one meeting after another all day. She works only about 2 times a week and not every week. I heard many people can't get an appointment with her for 2 months and longer. Some people say she picks her customers. She's nick-named the' Queen' because of her young beautiful looks and wonderful service.

LilJoey
10-16-13, 18:38
Lots of Ukr woman would not prefer to work locally and prefer working outside of Ukr- for obvious reasons (In today's open world they can go out). You can find lot more Ukr woman in many outside places- incl Germany, Austria, Spain, etc etc (and at much cheaper prices).Dear SBTiger,

Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Well intentioned debate is healthy and serves to highlight the usable accurate information on the thread. I have absolutely no interest in promoting a particular mongering destination over others based upon any vested interest in a particular place. My only interest has been that this forum, which helped me when I began mongering, and still helps me, should remain a repository of accurate and usable information that can assist mongers planning their trips and in knowing how best to effectively execute their plan and attain their goals once their feet hit the ground.

I have tried a number of mongering destinations and have made some conclusions about where it is best for me to go mongering. And I share my information and analysis and conclusions because it may help others.

But I am always open to new ideas and possibilities. Although, I will say of myself that I am not such an intrepid explorer as some fellows on this board, and because I speak no Russian, I do not see myself going to monger in the small towns of Ukraine or Russia, despite the logic that says it is better to monger like that, off the beaten path. I'm afraid I need things easier, more convenient and more "cut and dry" than that. So I will stick with Kiev for the time being, and maybe a jaunt to some bigger cities like Odessa in the summertime will appeal to me.

I am always willing to try new places, and in fact just completed an exploratory expedition to the clubs of North Cyprus to evaluate them as a mongering destination in comparison with Kiev, based upon reporting on this forum by TheKnight that EE girls just as pretty as in Kiev were available in North Cyprus clubs at a lower price than Kiev. That sounded pretty good. So I went to check it out, and my findings and observations are reported on this forum in the Cyprus thread and the Kiev thread.

Which brings me to the reason I am writing this post. I have quoted above your statement about Ukrainian women, as pretty as those available in Kiev, were available in other locations in Europe at lower prices than in Kiev. I would appreciate it if you would elaborate on this more, being specific as to cities, locations and venues, as well as to prices, and beauty level and service level. That would be very helpful.

As you know from reading this thread, the basic rate for p4p in Kiev is $75 to $100 an hour. This goes for many girls you might meet in various nightclubs (not the high priced D'lux or Buddha Bar) , as well as many girls online on mamba. Ru, and on various escort websites. While the websites do mainly use fake pictures, one can get to sexy looking girls after a medium amount of time and effort is expended, and it is eminently doable to develop a good list of girls one can call on within a relatively short time. And in the initial trips, if one wants immediate and certain results, and a beauty level which is quite high, one always can resort to the higher priced girls at the Rio strip club for $300/3hours or night club for a little more.

TexasMorrell
10-17-13, 01:07
$325 for one hour is not too much but it's not a good deal.

Here's my "Amelia", which is only fraction of the cost mentioned in the post above. I met her 10 days after I arrived a couple of months ago. She looks even better than in the photos. I saw her over a dozen times for $62 (current exchange rate) each time, one hour meeting excl. Shower time, so full 60 min, no waste time talking, bullsh*t, just DFK, OWO, sex and sex and CIM with swallow. She has a body that super models will die for.

She has really perky tits, nice long legs and a really firm ass, which you can probably bounce a dime off and a really tight pussy, which made me cum CIP twice and always one final time CIM and she swallowed. After few times, she started to masterbate while I f*ck her from behind; from that time on, she always did. She came during sex, and afterward, I licked her pussy and she came again twisting her body and shaking. Then, I pulled her up to suck my cock and I came again in her mouth. One time, during CIM, it became CIM and COF, and some cum flew in her eyes, on her face and on her hair, and she got really pissed off, and said the 'K' word out loud in her language. But she continued to see me. I always stayed about 1 hour 10 min. She doesn't speak any English. She's really busy, one meeting after another all day. She works only about 2 times a week and not every week. I heard many people can't get an appointment with her for 2 months and longer. Some people say she picks her customers. She's nick-named the' Queen' because of her young beautiful looks and wonderful service.If you are willing, PM me with her contact details. I am going to Kiev in a couple weeks.

Thanks

Protocol
10-20-13, 02:39
Sadly I went to Star Nosorog for a Saturday night.

Often times the girls are quite beautiful here.

Paid my 100 UAH cover and tipped the girl at the front who is very nice.

They had some kind of ladies night going on. Great. Club mostly empty (always is). But to sit down you need to deposit 500 UAH. As a result 90% of the seats are empty. Girls (customers) at the bar leaving purses on all the bar stools so you can't sit there either.

Male strippers. WTF? Male strippers. Really? Thanks Ukraine.

I was told "for the next hour the men will dance, then the ladies will dance." Female dancers all sitting around on the seats that the customers can't sit on.

How completely stupidly backwards is this club. On a Saturday night, male patrons cannot sit *anywhere, have nobody to watch, and nothing to do. Asked for Beluga vodka and was told I was welcome to drink Heineken.

Place was uncomfortable and awkward. If I could have gotten vodka guess I could have chatted up the female patrons but sure that would be a trip to nowhere.

Welcome to ukraine, land of fed up stupid ideas and we don't care if it doesn't work.

Took 3 minutes to leave. Will never return.

Still can't believe they'd swap in male dancers. Once they had a male gymnast which was a "change of pace" at best, but no damn way should they be charging men cover at a gentleman's club and charging 500 UAH to sit down and watch men dance.

Stupid stupid stupid me. Mandarin only from here on in.

Protocol
10-20-13, 03:51
ok, trying to be more concise and less ranty for this:

- mandarin: seems to be the best girls, they are on a circuit with rio, depending on the day (the schedule depending on the alignment of the stars) you will get better girls here than rio. one nice thing is that you will get 3-5 on stage at a time so you gae a long look. unlike "russian style" strip clubs nobody hassles the hell out of you for tips. you want something, you ask, you get it. you're done it goes away. good service and staff all around. visited with rio as well but the girls were mostly a half grade lower. mandarin did seem to have a "hotties" shift and then at the end of the circuit the fatties. never saw fatties at a ukraine strip club before but it seems to becoming more common. reasons left as an exercise to the reader.

took a girl home from the mandarin but it was mechanical and surgical and happy to see her go even though she was 9/10. i'm getting old. boring is boring, bye.

- solid gold: hit and miss as some girls only working here 2 nights a week and set their schedule or share out with other clubs (yet to be determined). on a good night here a year ago i saw the most beautiful girl ever in kiev. she was working there 1 month and didn't last another month. since then, mix of fatties and some half decent girls. one stunner was working there hardcore for a year or so, always saw her on returns, tall girl with perfect lean body and dark hair. never made it to the end of the night as she was taken out. took a dance from her once and she got really clammy-sweaty and kind of no-thanks from there. but this can be a place to stop in and check out and maybe you get lucky. price is $300. if the girl asks for champagne (900 uah) say no, cocktail (like 250). the downgrade from champagne is wine which is 600 uah and she probably won't drink it. so just say no, cocktail and give her the choice to walk. this won't affect what she thinks of you, so might as well save some money.

- mint rhino, one of the 3-5 rhino clubs (nosorog) which are confusing and beyond count and located in ludicrous areas and any taxi driver you ask says,"no. bad club. let me take you to mandarin / rio." well he's half right, sometimes the girls at the nosorog clubs are much better looking and are real dancers so if you don't want to watch a girl just turn her hips every 2 seconds, and want some pole dancing these places have it. sometimes. there is a promo every 30 mins where the girls go around and you get 3 dances for 200 uah. other places charge 200 for one dance i believe. downside is that the sales staff can be super pushy, this lets the girl sit there and be innocent "oh i don't know the price i don't know nothing blah blah" and the staff is hammering you with buy champange, buy drinks for this girl, buy food. really big on the food. also the nosorog clubs have the russian style tactic of the first girl who sees you grabs a menu and tries to seat you then sit down with you. this is forcing your hand. the result is to probably ask for still water and say no company and look like a guy with no cash until you have a chance to look around. mint is like way out in the boonies and a pain to get to. after you're in a no-taxi zone so need to get the called taxis. nothing around there. just stupid location, club is small. 500 minimum to sit again and not enough girls to make it interesting. when the promo comes in star on a good night you could have 50 to pick from and they all come out and go after you and leave you alone at other times which is a happy balance between the two. you can get your "nos" out at the same time without hurting feelings and you have your chance at that girl you had your eye on but couldn't get the attention from. however, mint has like 7 girls on a thursday. just a waste of time. nobody interesting anyway.

- rio: girls were ok, nothing spectacular, took a girl there on the date and she couldn't find one she wanted for a lapdance. nor could i really. so it's not just me with stupid standards. thing is at the end of the night a couple of real stunners came in so looks like some smart jerks from this website got there way too early and snuck off with the hotties. thanks jerks.

- star nosorog has its own post below which was the worst strip club experience i've ever had. only second worst was my previous visit in which this club had five dancers working. four of whom were bored out of their pants. fifth of which knew me from before and ran right over. she is cute so no biggie. but started in with the "i want champagne" and i asked her how much and got the "i don't know." i looked at her and said i have seen you every time in this club i came in for the last 2 years. don't treat me like an idiot. you know what the prices are. had a dance from her but at that point she just has a routine and bores the hell out of me, and her other trick is to get the drinks order and then "i will be right back". you won't see her for a long time, until she dances or just before the private dance promotion where she plans on milking you for some cash. she's a real pro but seems ditzy and nice, plus side is she's beautiful and a great body and sometimes decent mileage in the dances. there was one girl though at this club which is the reason i was returning, a psychologist that was in all ways perfect and not a snake at all, but sadly on 2 tries not finding her and then dealing with cock dancing that was the end of that hunt.

- millenium. this is of course your second worse choice you can make for a few reasons. first some of these girls have been at the grind for 3 years. now god knows what they are exposed to at this point. most of the patrons come from the shithole that is the dnipro hotel. yet surprisingly the rate for the girls for the night is $500. private dances are 400, for two songs. sometimes i have seen the best looking dancers in the city at this place, but as time has gone by the quality has gone down as the price went up. the stunning perfect body slender muscular good dancing ukrainian girl is now gone there. you have instead the old timer hang like girls, and 50% of them are fat (this is a bad trend for ukraine. fucking western food getting in here). and a glass of wine for the girls is 600 uah so they want that, the more alcohol they put away the fatter of course they get. and more money. also here the girls will come up and hassle you and do the full sales script,"i want to drink with you / how much? i don't know i just started here two days ago / ok call the waitress / waitress gives you some insane number like 900 uah and you are either a stupid who thinks this will help you to say yes to, or you have to deal with the pressure when you give the nos and reduce it down. from there's the expensive dances and finally you exit. with the girl you pay almost double rio / mandarin. before you could get better quality but now you get a horse that has been ridden by a thousand plus riders or a fat girl. take your pick and ask you if it's worth it to you.

alternatives.

buddha bar has gogo dancers on saturday and i think friday night. so does d'lux and skybar. all of these girls are smokin. the best are at d'lux then skybar then buddha bar. summaries:

- d'lux, if a girl gets in here to ask you a price she thinks she should cost more because she's in dlux and everything is stupid expensive here. it's worth it to go though and drink and maybe you get randomly lucky in what you find, because the music is good and the go-go dancers are smokin smokin perfect. so good for a visit. clientelle when i was there didn't seem very special though. just people who think they are getting upgraded by being there i suppose.

- buddha bar: what a sad tale of mismanagement this place has been. a friend of mine that i dated said she went once with six girls to have a girls party and they were denied entrance. not just asked for money, they wouldn't open the door. meanwhile our turkish friends from this site and elsewhere pour in like the huns are behind them. so you can get into this place on a wed. or thursday and get a 9:1 male to female ratio. that makes the three average looking girls at the bar secure in asking their $500 they want. and will probably get because one guy out of that 90 is going to say "fuck it" and do it. excluding normal girls from entering is just backwards thinking, the bar is transforming into a hooker-only bar with no hookers. please, let normal girls in they are fun to talk with and maybe date. let the hookers in too. both will bring men who look for girls for one thing or another and spend money. instead, bb. is investing money in the go-go dancers which are supposed to help. but they're so hot that you don't even look at anyone else in there now. so your options all look like absolute crap because you're looking at something you absolutely cannot have unless you have a jesus level access to this club. so, every time here, the bar is even lower. they need to just turn themselves into a normal bar and get girls in there who want to party and have fun and the rest will work itself out. it's worse and worse every time but i check in just to report and see and i like the music. one drink is all i need to observe and get out. so on a saturday this time i was surprised because there was just nobody there. empty spots at the bar and most of the seats empty with a rep001tering of people. basically this means that the kiev locals have decided this place is *dead* and have gone elsewhere. so i did too.

- skybar: also home of the hot gogo dancers and also a more beautiful and nicely mixed crowd. only bad thing is there is almost zero chance of talking to anyone. hi to one girl got the phone flipped out, a response of "how do i find you" and exchange of facebook details. can't really talk much in there. not sure what comes of that either. got another friendly girl happy to smile and talk a bit for what that was worth. offers of drinks turned down. seems to be a nice choice on most days. music was very very good and people enjoying themselves. after i left and went to solid gold and came back to the area saw super hotties leaving the club with doorknob type guys. well good job to you dudes, hats off. must be good dancers.

- serebro: went there once, older crowd, men mostly middle eastern, women mostly 28-35 looking for their middle eastern husband to marry them and take them out of their hellhole or so i guessed. can't sit because tables cost $500. can't stand because there's no room at the bar. so you take your drink and stand there in the middle of nowhere like everyone else and kind of move around like you're dancing. so if you really want to dance no doubt it's fine and if you're a hot girl you can leave your shit anywhere and nobody will complain. 40 year old dude, really not going to get the same treatment. didn't last there.

- coyote ugly, checked it out, very young crowd, lots of pretty girls going in. i eventually just bailed on it as i thought it would be no good for me and went to avalon.

- avalon, wasn't too impressed with the disco. bar is like almost walled off from the dance floor so you can't see what's going on and if you don't want to stare at your fat ugly man neighbor or overweight prostititute trying to get your interest but would rather see the hotties on the dance floor you have a problem. get out there and dance and look like an idiot or just deal. i just dealt. then left.

one thing i've been noticing is that ukrainians have been telling me "good luck" now and then. customs dues on entering. girls taking coats at the clubs. it makes me laugh a bit and i guess is their wink to western tourists looking for "nice girls."

had a couple of dates with a girl i met online, she was nice but a bit distant and seeming uninterested, too much age gap though she still wants me to call her i think it may be because she is hungry.

last but not least:

met the infamous (nefarious?) irishlad who is a great all around guy. had trouble trying to pay everything and have to basically re-do the whole thing and make sure i can get the orders in and bills sent to me. i arrived late due to no frickin hot water in ukraine and he rolled with it with style. had a good time at shooters which is really the place to be. people having fun, a mix of girls just looking to amuse themselves and find something whatever it may be. like us.

when ir approaches the club it is like moses parting the red sea.

alternate metaphor.

when ir approaches the club it's like the introductory shot to goodfella's.

you have to stay in his wake and get swept up until your table. it was one of my better experiences in ukraine. had what seemed to me to be a choice between a super cute brunette and an "experienced" blondinka and i chose. poorly. got a phone number but rejection by silence. oh well. it's the kind of place though unlike the fancier clubs where the music level lets you actually talk a bit and people are there having fun and are approachable. they are smart enough to know that the girls are their resource to bring the men who bring the money and they do it. unlike the moron management at bb who has a great club but is trying hard to drive it into the ground. still can't get over the fact that they face controlled a group of models. girl models.

trip here is almost done. i don't log in here every day but offer is open to wingman if i can get synchronized with someone and don't have a date going on. maybe tuesday.

anyway at the end of the day kiev is what you make of it. starting with the strip clubs it's a really clear result: you get to pick, quality is iffy and you're getting someone who is pro down to their toes. on the other end of the spectrum if you can chat up a girl on the street and get something out of that you're a hero because the street is filled with pretty girls. that's out of my punching weight. just some of these places: avoid. the biggest one is buddha bar.

the men flooding into that place and spending money and *waiting* for something to happen are ruining it. you're giving them what they want, a sausage fest of guys getting drunk waiting for like 3 girls to show up. boycott it. get the hell out until they let the girls back in. other places are doing ladies nights and this place is actively blocking girls from coming. if you reward that by showing up with your 3-7 guys in your group and spend a bunch of money waiting, you just make it worse. bring your money elsewhere and support good clubs that are fun. let bb then sort out how to run an establishment according to the no frickin duh basic rules of let the hot girls in and the men with money will follow and who cares what your customers choose to do as long as they are paying you for service.

Protocol
10-20-13, 13:00
Anticipating with a bit of a wince by drunken reports from the previous night.

As a side note, some seemingly "nice girls" who want to travel from various websites like travel girls, mamba, etc. Have been starting to ask $1000 for a meeting. I had this happen 2 times in the last 2 days.

Now, not sure who is encouraging *that* particular thing. These are girls who are around 8 in looks and 0 in attitude I guess. But whomever you are, please stop it. At $1000 it's not even anything you can bargain with it's just something to laugh at.

Now I want to get back to Buddha bar and see if any of those girls are now proposing $1000. Sadly doesn't seem to be any girls in there though.

HoorayForBoobs
10-20-13, 14:47
I've been with many stunning girls, both personally and as a semi-monger, but I hit the mother of all jackpots. While a beautiful girl is not rare in Kiev, a 26 year old that is beautiful. Slim. Leggy. That speaks English fluently, well travelled, cultured and has a good career in Ukraine is. On top of that, she (was) on Mamba for a short period of time.How reliable is Mamba?

Poker Player 2
10-20-13, 19:36
Protocol,

Thank you for your excellent assessment of the Kiev scene. I have not made it to Ukraine this year unfortunately but seems like things have changed very little since last September. In particular, I agree with you on Budda Bar: The worst experience in Kiev hands down. The few average girls demanding $500 for a couple of hours, had a particularly nasty attitude even before the deal was closed. Drinks and food are expensive there too and service is hit and miss. The market will teach the management a lesson sooner or later. With regards to Ukraine girls figures, I used to think they were very fine until they hit about 40 but I agree with you, with the introduction of McDonalds in every corner of Ukraine and FSU in general, I am seeing more and more younger girls over weight just as you do in the United States and other Western Countries- Another reason to hate the McDonalds culture! RIO has been going down for years it seems to me and as you noted the same girls work at both RIO and the Mandarin as both establishments are owned by the same entity. I actually think the quality of Strip clubs in Kiev has been going down for years and is no longer on my list of must go in Kiev. Happy hunting gentlemen!

TexasMorrell
10-20-13, 21:17
Sadly I went to Star Nosorog for a Saturday night.

Often times the girls are quite beautiful here.

Paid my 100 UAH cover and tipped the girl at the front who is very nice.

They had some kind of ladies night going on. Great. Club mostly empty (always is). But to sit down you need to deposit 500 UAH. As a result 90% of the seats are empty. Girls (customers) at the bar leaving purses on all the bar stools so you can't sit there either.

Male strippers. WTF? Male strippers. Really? Thanks Ukraine.

I was told "for the next hour the men will dance, then the ladies will dance." Female dancers all sitting around on the seats that the customers can't sit on.

How completely stupidly backwards is this club. On a Saturday night, male patrons cannot sit *anywhere, have nobody to watch, and nothing to do. Asked for Beluga vodka and was told I was welcome to drink Heineken.

Place was uncomfortable and awkward. If I could have gotten vodka guess I could have chatted up the female patrons but sure that would be a trip to nowhere.

Welcome to ukraine, land of fed up stupid ideas and we don't care if it doesn't work.

Took 3 minutes to leave. Will never return.

Still can't believe they'd swap in male dancers. Once they had a male gymnast which was a "change of pace" at best, but no damn way should they be charging men cover at a gentleman's club and charging 500 UAH to sit down and watch men dance.

Stupid stupid stupid me. Mandarin only from here on in.Dude I almost pissed myself I'm laughing so hard. Thanks. Yes I always find it ironic for a country that is trying so hard to be like the west they are still doing everything the wrong way.

LilJoey
10-21-13, 12:25
hioctane,

please clear out your messages.

here's my response to your basic questions, which may benefit other members who are just beginning too:


thanks for the detailed response!

a couple of questions about mamba. how should i approach these girls? should i go straight to the chase and ask "$75 for the hour?" as suggested on the board? when i meet these girls initially, is it just for coffee or should i negotiate something?

the nightclubs. is the going rate $150-200 per hour? or is that the rate for the higher end clubs (budda and d'lux)?

i do like the dating thing. taking a girl out to dinner, dancing etc. should i negotiate a price for this (mamba girl).

thanks again!you seem oblivious of all the good advice i already posted on the thread in my prior reports and responses. so your first instruction is to click on my name in one of my posts, which will open a box with four links, one of which is to view my prior posts. click on that link and get a list of my prior posts going back a certain amount of time. the. you can review the list of links to my prior reports and read them easily, including those on the use of mamba. that's your homework. if you do it, you will gain, and not lose. it will more than answer your questions. reading my prior posts going back to march of 2011 will open your eyes.

now since i advised you that you must immediately start on mamba to get contacts prior to your trip, and you have very little time, i will answer what you asked. i don't know who suggested a first message of "$75 / hour" but i think it's a bit blunt as a start. it will definitely earn rejection by all girls except hardened p4p girls or agencies. it clearly identifies you as a "sex tourist" and no normal dates will result from it. so the only ones to respond positively will be those girls or agencies interested in p4p at that price, or a counter proposal with their price will be received. there is a certain logic to doing it that way, since it cuts right to the point about p4p. however, i have preferred to make my initial messages more ambiguous and simply suggest a meeting. that way any girl who likes my profile can respond. i leave it to them to suggest money, which p4p girls will always do before meeting. they identify themselves before meeting because they want the money. so the burden is on them to ask for it. don't worry, they will ask for it. but this more ambiguous approach allows a regular girl also to respond. so if i like her and have time, i can try to date her and get a freebie. and if i don't have time, because i have too many p4p dates to check out or fuck, then i blow off the meeting.

because you don't know what any mamba girl really looks like before you actually meet, due to the widespread use of fake pictures, it has been suggested to have a series of speed dates for coffee or a drink to pre-qualify which mamba girls you would consider inviting to your apartment. and you can set up a series of short half hour meetings at various downtown bars or cafe's and when you are done with a girl meeting, you just say you have another appointment and head off to the next meeting point. and those girl that you like, you schedule for a meeting at your apartment later that day or night, or the next day. but i think that system is better suited to a longer visit to kiev with more days there. so on a short visit of 3 or 4 days, i prefer to meet the girls at my apartment, and to fuck all those that are doable (why not? it's cheap enough) , and to send away all those that i don't care to fuck. the mamba girls who are p4p have already identified themselves as such in mamba messages and told you a price. so all you have to decide is if they are attractive enough for you for sex, and whether they will do what you like in sex in a gfe manner.

nightclubs at the high end the girls start off asking $400 or $500. you can negotiate that and both seek more time for that price (2 or 3 hours is not unreasonable) , as well as seek a lower total price ($300 is usually as low as high end girls will go) , so with high end girls the best you can usually negotiate down to is $300/2 hours, which is $150 / hr net. but i wouldn't go for this unless the girl is really gorgeous and the service level very high, because you can get pretty damn good girls out of rio strip club at a $300/3hours rate, which is $100 / hr net. at buddha bar and d'lux the high priced girls operate. but at other nightclubs you might be able to get better prices than at rio. and it has been reported that you can get girls for $200/2 hours, which is the same rate as rio, but a smaller total outlay. and you can also find girls who will accept an offer of $100, and that is for an hour, or even several hours, which is a better price. so you can try to find lower cost girls at the other nightclubs mentioned on the thread.

i would not consider paying a girl money to have dinner. i only pay for sex. however if i take her for a whole night and have sex with her, then there are many hours to occupy, and i would then consider taking her out, if she wants, to go to a nightclub to dance or to go eat something. but this adds to the expense obviously. and most girls taken for the whole night will anyways prefer to sleep than to go out.

lj

Delta Indigo
10-21-13, 14:24
Little Joey got a really hard time from some over his endorsement of Rio as a quick option. I came to Kiev a day ago and did not put in any effort in Mamba before. The girls here are gorgeous better than I have seen anywhere else.

I was at Buddha Bar which is overpriced and sucks. If you want a good and quick low effort option at a reasonable price, Rio is great. I got there at 21:00 quite early and left with a blond hottie in 30 minutes, $300 for 3+ hours, it felt like a long time. Everything was great except she insisted on a covered blow job. Her pussy tasted great by the way.

What I wanted to say is that little Joey was right and being helpful, if you land in Kiev without prior groundwork, Rio is a great option, his info is very helpful.

LilJoey
10-21-13, 16:24
Little Joey got a really hard time from some over his endorsement of Rio as a quick option. I came to Kiev a day ago and did not put in any effort in Mamba before. The girls here are gorgeous better than I have seen anywhere else.

I was at Buddha Bar which is overpriced and sucks. If you want a good and quick low effort option at a reasonable price, Rio is great. I got there at 21:00 quite early and left with a blond hottie in 30 minutes, $300 for 3+ hours, it felt like a long time. Everything was great except she insisted on a covered blow job. Her pussy tasted great by the way.

What I wanted to say is that little Joey was right and being helpful, if you land in Kiev without prior groundwork, Rio is a great option, his info is very helpful.I don't promote one option over another. I wish the members to be aware of all the p4p options, and the calculations and considerations of cost or convenience concerning each option, insofar as they relate to the various lengths of visits by different mongers (short 3 or 4 day weekends versus longer visits) ; and other differences among mongers, such as age, girl preferences etc. Therefore, I have taken pains to present the option represented by Rio strip club, as one option amongst the various other options, including those options which are less expensive and require more effort and time to succeed. Such as using Internet sites like mamba. Ru, or other escort websites like top-modals. Com, or the others with low prices of $100 / hr or less, as well as the girl apartments one can find via asking local taxi drivers, or being directed to the girl apartments by a shill one might meet on the street while wandering around downtown, as well as the possibility of getting to p4p girls who will accept $200/2hours (which is the same $100 / hr net rate as Rio but is a smaller total cash outlay, and this a cheaper option) , or even girls at some bars or nightclubs that can be gotten for $100 for an hour or more. And on the other hand, the more expensive options, such as the high end nightclubs like D'lux or Buddha Bar where tge girls typically start with demands for $500 or $400, and can be negotiated sometimes down to $300/2hours (a net rate of $150 / hour, and thus more expensive than Rio) , and $300/2hours was the best I ever negotiated such girls down to, and I didn't take them because I knew I could do better at Rio, and I don't think I would consider such prices unless the girl was super spectacular in looks and beauty way beyond the hotties at Rio, and she also gave off a good vibe that made me feel a GFE was possible with her. As well there was the Gia escort website which was more expensive than Rio, but listed services and one could confirm easily in advance if a girl would do an uncovered BJ, something prized by many mongers, and this maybe worth a few more dollars. And of course there are ways to spend more on p4p girls with the high priced escort websites asking prices more representative of Western Europe if 150 Euro or 200 Euro per hour which nobody from this forum ever considered trying. Once a monger is made aware of all the options and possibilities, and the pros and cons of each are understood, I feel I have done my duty to fully inform, and it then becomes a matter of personal choice which direction each individual monger decided to take. The criticism I had last year from some quarters was simply not valid, because the fact is I always presented all options.

Ronaldinjo
10-21-13, 18:05
Just got back from a 6 days trip to Kiev. Checked my passport and counting, it has been about 4. 5 months of experience in Kiev. But lately I got lazy, instead of trying new things I do what I think is the best for a short trip. Don't waste time in Kiev! In 5 Nights I did 4 nights Rio! But it was worth it. Arriving on Wednesday, I started with Rio, I always do for the first Night. It was incredible how crowded it was and how many beautiful (new) girls I saw. By the way, they told me they closed the Basement area due to technical reasons. Well, In Germany this means they don't fill up anymore all 3 areas. But I don't believe actually.

So first night I took two girls because I couldn't decide. Everything like always. I bought whiskey and Bacardi, had a nice apartment and put on ru music on Tv. Lots of conversation in something like Russenglish. In the end I had 2 beautiful girls doing a really really good job and stayed about 4. 5 hrs.

Next day I had a big hang over so I decided to do some work on my laptop and started with mamba and massage salons. I don't do anymore topmodals and other webpages alike as it is a waste of time. Only thing you can do is to call about 5 girls / agencies at the same time and wait what comes and hopefully comes within the next 2 hrs. I wrote here before that I'm convinced that this is a new strategy to earn money. They send around the ugly girls from apartment / hotel to apartment / hotel and as most of the mongers send those ugly girls away, they have at the end of the day about 1, 500 Griwnas in their pocket. Because too many of you give them 50 or 100 Griwna for Taxi. I don't pay anything when I don't get what I asked for.

So I tried out mamba after a long time. It started very well and was chatting with two nice girls which were obviously neither Agencies nor 'this is not really my picture' girls. But as always I was looking for the perfect one and continued writing to most beautiful ones. No answer or whatever. It takes so much time and you really don't know who is showing up. In addition some of them want to meet before at a bar or Restaurant. So I tried to catch the two girls from before. But (like always) they were not online since then. I hate. So I moved over to massage salons, like Dolly or hotmassage. But I had to notice that the beauty ones are gone. In addition I had an Hotel address that no Taxi driver knows! Hotmassage for instance is for me the best massage salon but far outside the city, so I don't go there and in return the Taxi driver don't know Tarassa Shevchenko Lane near Maidan! Lazy people..Hello pal, you mention besement area in Rio is closed, what do you mean, the down floor? And what about girls? Could you mention the names of the hottest ones? How Dasha looks like? Kind regards.

TexasMorrell
10-21-13, 18:44
i don't promote one option over another. i wish the members to be aware of all the p4p options, and the calculations and considerations of cost or convenience concerning each option, insofar as they relate to the various lengths of visits by different mongers (short 3 or 4 day weekends versus longer visits) ; and other differences among mongers, such as age, girl preferences etc. therefore, i have taken pains to present the option represented by rio strip club, as one option amongst the various other options, including those options which are less expensive and require more effort and time to succeed. such as using internet sites like mamba. ru, or other escort websites like top-modals. com, or the others with low prices of $100 / hr or less, as well as the girl apartments one can find via asking local taxi drivers, or being directed to the girl apartments by a shill one might meet on the street while wandering around downtown, as well as the possibility of getting to p4p girls who will accept $200/2hours (which is the same $100 / hr net rate as rio but is a smaller total cash outlay, and this a cheaper option) , or even girls at some bars or nightclubs that can be gotten for $100 for an hour or more. and on the other hand, the more expensive options, such as the high end nightclubs like d'lux or buddha bar where tge girls typically start with demands for $500 or $400, and can be negotiated sometimes down to $300/2hours (a net rate of $150 / hour, and thus more expensive than rio) , and $300/2hours was the best i ever negotiated such girls down to, and i didn't take them because i knew i could do better at rio, and i don't think i would consider such prices unless the girl was super spectacular in looks and beauty way beyond the hotties at rio, and she also gave off a good vibe that made me feel a gfe was possible with her. as well there was the gia escort website which was more expensive than rio, but listed services and one could confirm easily in advance if a girl would do an uncovered bj, something prized by many mongers, and this maybe worth a few more dollars. and of course there are ways to spend more on p4p girls with the high priced escort websites asking prices more representative of western europe if 150 euro or 200 euro per hour which nobody from this forum ever considered trying. once a monger is made aware of all the options and possibilities, and the pros and cons of each are understood, i feel i have done my duty to fully inform, and it then becomes a matter of personal choice which direction each individual monger decided to take. the criticism i had last year from some quarters was simply not valid, because the fact is i always presented all options.liljoey that was me that said $75 for one hour? yes you are correct i was expecting to get p4p with that approach. but i'm looking for semi pro mostly university students. i have a very good list of contacts now who have agreed to that price. and i well the speed dating thing in the coffee shop to verify they are who they say they are. but the other approach i'm having very good luck with is not offering money at all. i am messaging girls i'm interested in and telling them straight out i will take them to dinner and do some exhibit or a nightclub but at the end of the day i want her to go home with me so we can fuck. yes i have been getting a lot of refusals but i have also gotten a lot of affirmatives. i find it interesting that almost all of the ones who are in agreement are the 18 or 19-year-old. its the 30 and 40 something milfs who are saying no. the young girls are the ones who are excited about the prospect of going out with an american man. they also live in their dorm and are dead broke. so they never get to do anything fun like that. i already have 12 mamba freebies lined up ready to be interviewed when i get to kiev. if any of you have read the book bang ukrane you know one of the most salient points he made was that you have to be direct with ukrainian women. as he stated the more that you get the ukrainian woman the less likely she is to have sex with you because she will not respect you. the key about eating freebies is to let them know ahead of time what you expect at the end of the date. yes you will get a lot of rejection but you have to get used to that. you were only interested in the one to say yes. that means you need to cover a lot of ground. i sent out over 100 proposals to get the 12 who said yes. how many of those 12 actually go through with it remains to be seen. but i will update my progress when i get to kiev.

YellowPaul
10-21-13, 20:00
If any of you have read the book Bang Ukraine you know one of the most salient points he made was that you have to be direct with Ukrainian women. As he stated the more that you get the Ukrainian woman the less likely she is to have sex with you because she will not respect you. The key about eating freebies is to let them know ahead of time what you expect at the end of the date. Yes you will get a lot of rejection but you have to get used to that. You were only interested in the one to say yes. That means you need to cover a lot of ground. I sent out over 100 proposals to get the 12 who said yes. How many of those 12 actually go through with it remains to be seen. But I will update my progress when I get to Kiev.When it comes to freebies yes it is worth the effort as the sex is usually better. I was in Kiev last month and managed 2 of them. First was at Forsage the place away from the center where the poor students from the near by University go. It's dirt cheap $80 US dollars will get you a table and a small bottle and don't expect quality girls, best is a 7. I picked up a 6 and made sure she was was DTF as she was not my type but we were back at my apartment within a 1/2 hour of meeting her.

The second is Mamba contact, below is a link to her profile. She looks better in the pictures as they usually do but she is still a 8 in my book with those long legs. We had a nice dinner at Fellini's, good but expensive. She even wanted me sleep on my side afterwards as she was complaining about "snoring".

Funny - I just checked her profile. The picture of her on the stools in the black pants in front of the mirror with the letters, that was taken at my apartment. I forgot about that.

Tip: Always buy the cheapest sparkling wine and tell the girls it's "champagne", can't go wrong with that as it's hard to know what a girl will drink.

http://www.mamba.ru/mb706756047?hit=3

Bang Ukraine was hilarious IMHO.

Protocol
10-22-13, 04:06
broke my drunken vow already. oops.

anyway walked out the wrong way and went to dolls. hours are 8pm to 6am. i think.

this club is actually really nice. first, it's new new new, and very cool lights and ambiance. great seating, and the sofas by the walls have semi-curtains between each that gives you a feeling of privacy without losing your contact with the club.

three stages with girls going through them in rotation.

parts i really liked: girls were on the upper end of the scale, mostly 8s, nobody i'd put under a 7. 5 and the consistent standards made for good viewing. girls had some nice outfits too. waitresses are dressed as flight attendants with "dolls airlines" on the uniform. a+. will fly with you again.

in a huge shocker for ukraine the manager actually acted like he wanted patrons in his club, and furthermore cared about whether they were enjoying themselves. genuine smiles from staff and the only bit of ex-kgb-agent-type-bs was during the standard weapons scan and "no peecture, no beedeeo" comment. which of course is kind of fine because wankers are always in there trying to sneak pictures of the girls, so you have your fair warning if you get caught they're going to want to watch you do some deleting probably. i've been hearing that at the entrance of a lot of strip clubs now. hope it doesn't go to the next step of put your phone in the safe while you're in here.

spoke at length with a charming girl who was interesting and beautiful and the kind of girl you'd date. except that she also designed the bdsm room at the club and likes to use the whip. well for some makes it more interesting.

and yes they have a bdsm room. light play i believe. but indeed it's on the menu.

private rooms are very private, your own room with a closed door, and nice lighting inside with their own sound system. each of them is slightly different, i think there are four downstairs. one is a peep show room (see below). one bdsm (you don't need to partake but there are chains hanging from the ceiling).

what may interest some of you is the upstairs. i asked for a tour when i was leaving so i could report here. upstairs is very clean, very new, like 4. 5 star hotel nice. two "erotik massage" rooms on either end of the floor. these consist of a big red bed which looks like it would hold about 4 people, and i guess you can have your choice of one girl (500 uah) or two (double price) for 30 mins. i don't know what the constraints are on it, just passing the info. looked clean and nice.

there's a shower up there, maybe two or three, and a jacuzzi room with karaoke. very clean, spotless, nice quality furnishings, had a "cleaned and disinfected" sticker on the jacuzzi.

then there's a vip room as well as a peep show room with another massage bed. the peep show rooms are set up with one way class, so you can send a girl or two on the other side of the one way glass and they can put on a show without you seeing them.

nobody pushed for a tip in this place (i tipped everyone). service was good. they really seemed to put a lot of thought into the whole place, and with the various special rooms, viewing areas, stages, and vip etc, to me it's a place you can go solo and enjoy yourself or if you want to engage in some kind of (light) fetish it will work for you, as well as going with groups.

i went on an off night and it was not so busy. i will definitely return and liked it. hope they succeed.

kind of funky to find it on google maps as the address doesn't pop out, but it's walking distance from sky bar (like 15-20 minute walk). you'd head straight out of sky bar towards the mcd's (not the one on kreshatik) , when the road hits the t after 3 mins, take a left and just walk on down the hill. you will pass penthouse on your right after 10 mins, and another 3 mins there will be dolls on your left. both very obvious. metro olympeeeeskaya or whatever.

i had a rum and 2 or 3 premium vodkas. 3 cocktails for the girl, and some food, came to 1590 or so uah. so backtracking from there, girl drinks were probably about 300. probably its on the website though. dances 400 for two songs which is standardish. mileage is probably ymmv based on girl and you and if you stink. so for about $50 / hour i drank, ate a bit, had good company, in a nice environment and enjoyed it. this may not pass certain bean counter tests but for me it works and it's a social evening.

looking back at the sum of the parts and the design of the club, it's one of the nicest clubs i've been to anywhere. new and not seedy, with the extra bells and whistles that nobody else has, and the nods to privacy for those who want it. i can't think of anything else that has combined all this with good girls too, and thinking of the seething mass of bodies in the group grope rooms at the spearmint rhino in vegas just seems pretty nasty by comparison (though it is a fun place on its own if you want to be stupid with money).

last point: not clear if there is a sure fire take home policy, it was implied by one of the girls that it's for the girl to decide. some girls are always yes i think, some are definitely always no, and some maybe if they like you. so if this is what you want out of the girl, i'm not sure about the protocol or price but you may want to clear it with the girl before spending a lot.

oh and i saw a girl swing on a heart from a chain as she passed by which was 1. 5 seconds of awesome. nice club, nice girls, nice manager, go support it.

i guess i will do the octafecta or whatever i'm at now and cross off penthouse since i now know where it is. tomorrow.

Hioctane
10-22-13, 06:03
What may interest some of you is the upstairs. I asked for a tour when I was leaving so I could report here. Upstairs is very clean, very new, like 4. 5 star hotel nice. Two "erotik massage" rooms on either end of the floor. These consist of a big red bed which looks like it would hold about 4 people, and I guess you can have your choice of one girl (500 UAH) or two (double price) for 30 mins. I don't know what the constraints are on it, just passing the info. Looked clean and nice.Newbie question. Does 500UAH massage include sex? I am only used to South American stripclubs where sex is always included.

Member #4274
10-22-13, 12:47
I'm in Kyiv now and enjoying the beauty of this terrific city in autumn. I've spoken with an attractive student from Kharkov online who's living and studying in Kyiv now. She writes "I offer classic sex. Oral, kissing, massage and good company, one hour 1OO dollars plus taxi." Her pictures are very good and so is her English. She does not offer oral without a condom (a huge negative for me) and won't budge on it. She is on mamba but is selective on who she approaches. Anyway, if anyone wants her mamba address I am willing to trade it for a contact in Kyiv. I prefer to meet a student who can speak some English.

It Travel
10-22-13, 12:52
I'm in Kyiv now and enjoying the beauty of this terrific city in autumn. I've spoken with an attractive student from Kharkov online who's living and studying in Kyiv now. She writes "I offer classic sex. Oral, kissing, massage and good company, one hour 1OO dollars plus taxi." Her pictures are very good and so is her English. She does not offer oral without a condom (a huge negative for me) and won't budge on it. She is on mamba but is selective on who she approaches. Anyway, if anyone wants her mamba address I am willing to trade it for a contact in Kyiv. I prefer to meet a student who can speak some English.100 USD an hour is a rip off.

It

Member #4274
10-22-13, 12:56
100 USD an hour is a rip off.

ItNot entirely true. Also, I'm sure you don't represent everyone.

Sponsor74
10-22-13, 20:49
broke my drunken vow already. oops.

anyway walked out the wrong way and went to dolls. hours are 8pm to 6am. i think.

this club is actually really nice. first, it's new new new, and very cool lights and ambiance. great seating, and the sofas by the walls have semi-curtains between each that gives you a feeling of privacy without losing your contact with the club.

three stages with girls going through them in rotation.

parts i really liked: girls were on the upper end of the scale, mostly 8s, nobody i'd put under a 7. 5 and the consistent standards made for good viewing. girls had some nice outfits too. waitresses are dressed as flight attendants with "dolls airlines" on the uniform. a+. will fly with you again.

in a huge shocker for ukraine the manager actually acted like he wanted patrons in his club, and furthermore cared about whether they were enjoying themselves. genuine smiles from staff and the only bit of ex-kgb-agent-type-bs was during the standard weapons scan and "no peecture, no beedeeo" comment. which of course is kind of fine because wankers are always in there trying to sneak pictures of the girls, so you have your fair warning if you get caught they're going to want to watch you do some deleting probably. i've been hearing that at the entrance of a lot of strip clubs now. hope it doesn't go to the next step of put your phone in the safe while you're in here.

spoke at length with a charming girl who was interesting and beautiful and the kind of girl you'd date. except that she also designed the bdsm room at the club and likes to use the whip. well for some makes it more interesting.

and yes they have a bdsm room. light play i believe. but indeed it's on the menu.

private rooms are very private, your own room with a closed door, and nice lighting inside with their own sound system. each of them is slightly different, i think there are four downstairs. one is a peep show room (see below). one bdsm (you don't need to partake but there are chains hanging from the ceiling).

what may interest some of you is the upstairs. i asked for a tour when i was leaving so i could report here. upstairs is very clean, very new, like 4. 5 star hotel nice. two "erotik massage" rooms on either end of the floor. these consist of a big red bed which looks like it would hold about 4 people, and i guess you can have your choice of one girl (500 uah) or two (double price) for 30 mins. i don't know what the constraints are on it, just passing the info. looked clean and nice.

there's a shower up there, maybe two or three, and a jacuzzi room with karaoke. very clean, spotless, nice quality furnishings, had a "cleaned and disinfected" sticker on the jacuzzi.

then there's a vip room as well as a peep show room with another massage bed. the peep show rooms are set up with one way class, so you can send a girl or two on the other side of the one way glass and they can put on a show without you seeing them.

nobody pushed for a tip in this place (i tipped everyone). service was good. they really seemed to put a lot of thought into the whole place, and with the various special rooms, viewing areas, stages, and vip etc, to me it's a place you can go solo and enjoy yourself or if you want to engage in some kind of (light) fetish it will work for you, as well as going with groups.

i went on an off night and it was not so busy. i will definitely return and liked it. hope they succeed.

kind of funky to find it on google maps as the address doesn't pop out, but it's walking distance from sky bar (like 15-20 minute walk). you'd head straight out of sky bar towards the mcd's (not the one on kreshatik) , when the road hits the t after 3 mins, take a left and just walk on down the hill. you will pass penthouse on your right after 10 mins, and another 3 mins there will be dolls on your left. both very obvious. metro olympeeeeskaya or whatever.

i had a rum and 2 or 3 premium vodkas. 3 cocktails for the girl, and some food, came to 1590 or so uah. so backtracking from there, girl drinks were probably about 300. probably its on the website though. dances 400 for two songs which is standardish. mileage is probably ymmv based on girl and you and if you stink. so for about $50 / hour i drank, ate a bit, had good company, in a nice environment and enjoyed it. this may not pass certain bean counter tests but for me it works and it's a social evening.

looking back at the sum of the parts and the design of the club, it's one of the nicest clubs i've been to anywhere. new and not seedy, with the extra bells and whistles that nobody else has, and the nods to privacy for those who want it. i can't think of anything else that has combined all this with good girls too, and thinking of the seething mass of bodies in the group grope rooms at the spearmint rhino in vegas just seems pretty nasty by comparison (though it is a fun place on its own if you want to be stupid with money).

last point: not clear if there is a sure fire take home policy, it was implied by one of the girls that it's for the girl to decide. some girls are always yes i think, some are definitely always no, and some maybe if they like you. so if this is what you want out of the girl, i'm not sure about the protocol or price but you may want to clear it with the girl before spending a lot.

oh and i saw a girl swing on a heart from a chain as she passed by which was 1. 5 seconds of awesome. nice club, nice girls, nice manager, go support it.

i guess i will do the octafecta or whatever i'm at now and cross off penthouse since i now know where it is. tomorrow.thanks for this information about this new club, i hope to visit it soon.

regarding private apartments with girls for sex probably you have updated information too? telephone address and prices? because these private apartments changes their places constantly. thanks in advance for your assistance

Ronaldinjo
10-22-13, 23:49
Thanks for this information about this new club, I hope to visit it soon.

Regarding private apartments with girls for sex probably you have updated information too? Telephone address and prices? Because these private apartments changes their places constantly. Thanks in advance for your assistanceDall isn't a new club, it was opened about 2 years ago. The policy is similar to Rio, but more expensive, some girls goes with you and some no. Cost for 2 h / 300 and you bring them home. Or maybe something changed?

Ronaldinjo
10-22-13, 23:52
broke my drunken vow already. oops.

anyway walked out the wrong way and went to dolls. hours are 8pm to 6am. i think.

this club is actually really nice. first, it's new new new, and very cool lights and ambiance. great seating, and the sofas by the walls have semi-curtains between each that gives you a feeling of privacy without losing your contact with the club.

three stages with girls going through them in rotation.

parts i really liked: girls were on the upper end of the scale, mostly 8s, nobody i'd put under a 7. 5 and the consistent standards made for good viewing. girls had some nice outfits too. waitresses are dressed as flight attendants with "dolls airlines" on the uniform. a+. will fly with you again.

in a huge shocker for ukraine the manager actually acted like he wanted patrons in his club, and furthermore cared about whether they were enjoying themselves. genuine smiles from staff and the only bit of ex-kgb-agent-type-bs was during the standard weapons scan and "no peecture, no beedeeo" comment. which of course is kind of fine because wankers are always in there trying to sneak pictures of the girls, so you have your fair warning if you get caught they're going to want to watch you do some deleting probably. i've been hearing that at the entrance of a lot of strip clubs now. hope it doesn't go to the next step of put your phone in the safe while you're in here.

spoke at length with a charming girl who was interesting and beautiful and the kind of girl you'd date. except that she also designed the bdsm room at the club and likes to use the whip. well for some makes it more interesting...did you see any stunner in dalls, i mean 9 and above? the policy there was similar to rio a year ago since m last time there, are there appartments in the club as in moscow strip clubs? with respect.

YellowPaul
10-24-13, 18:17
Anybody can have experience with this girl:

http://www.mamba.ru/mb1107311733/dating

Climaxnow
10-24-13, 22:35
Thank you for the reports Protocol. Did you find any hot pussy? If yes, where?

LilJoey
10-25-13, 04:31
good report, protocol. but just to have the information in one spot concerning this venue, including the "take out" information that is no doubt of interest to readers of this thread, here is the info from the report i filed after visiting dolls last year, bars upon the printed "krazy menu" that the club was using at the time to list the prices of various types of entertainments with the girls.


just kidding. these continuing posts by the veteran members about tashkent have truly enhanced the kiev thread.

but seriously, i have not forgotten your questions and will answer in due course. but here are a few tidbits that might be of value to those intending to visit kiev soon.

(1) mandarin reopening: according to slava, the genial manager of the vip room at rio, the sister club of rio, that was called mandarin and was located on the river not far from the rp, and used to have a nice floor show with singers and dancers, will be reopened by the end of april. i hope it is true. it was a great club with lots of hotties. prices were similar to prices at rio.

(2) dolls. (57 chervonoarmiis'ka) the new strip club that opened recently is a large space with very nice decor and about 15. 20 girls at the time of my visit, with some who were quite pretty. they have a "krazy menu" with all the prices and various sexy activities listed. i asked the manager for a photocopy of it, and will scan and post it when i can get to a scanner, but the main prices of interest are: private dances. 400 uah ($50 usd) ; 2 hours of time "exempting a girl from her obligations at the club" (i. e. you can take her out of the club. $300 usd; all night "exempting girl from club". $500 usd. so the prices are higher than rio.

dolls vs rio: private dances at rio cost half as much and give much more action. the girl at dolls that i took to a private dance had the notion that part of it should be her dancing in front of a mirror a few feet in front of me, and i had to motion her to get her ass over to where it was needed. she wasn't a take out girl, though. another girl who was a "take out" girl gave a much hotter dance. but at these prices most guys would forgo private dances at dolls. the take out date at dolls is $300, like at rio, but it is only for 2 hours, so the net rate is $150 / hour versus $100 / hour at rio. the dolls all night date for $500 is the only thing of slight interest, since the club shows the potential of bringing in some very high level talent, but it's only of interest to guys who would spend that much for a full night with a very beautiful girl. whether dolls can compete with rio? it depends on whether either can present a line up worthy of the prices they are asking. the dolls 2 hour date for $300 (a net rate of $150 / hr) exceeds the rate i have considered ok for kiev up until now. since rio provides a sufficient supply of girls on an 8 or 8. 5 level, there is no reason to pay more at dolls for the same. the only reason i could begin to consider taking girls from dolls at higher prices would be for girls on a very high level, like truly above a 9 in looks and service, and then i would lean toward the all night date, to amortize the cost and reach a lower per hour net cost..
broke my drunken vow already. oops.

anyway walked out the wrong way and went to dolls. hours are 8pm to 6am. i think.

this club is actually really nice. first, it's new new new, and very cool lights and ambiance. great seating, and the sofas by the walls have semi-curtains between each that gives you a feeling of privacy without losing your contact with the club.

three stages with girls going through them in rotation.

parts i really liked: girls were on the upper end of the scale, mostly 8s, nobody i'd put under a 7. 5 and the consistent standards made for good viewing. girls had some nice outfits too. waitresses are dressed as flight attendants with "dolls airlines" on the uniform. a+. will fly with you again.

in a huge shocker for ukraine the manager actually acted like he wanted patrons in his club, and furthermore cared about whether they were enjoying themselves. genuine smiles from staff and the only bit of ex-kgb-agent-type-bs was during the standard weapons scan and "no peecture, no beedeeo" comment. which of course is kind of fine because wankers are always in there trying to sneak pictures of the girls, so you have your fair warning if you get caught they're going to want to watch you do some deleting probably. i've been hearing that at the entrance of a lot of strip clubs now. hope it doesn't go to the next step of put your phone in the safe while you're in here.

spoke at length with a charming girl who was interesting and beautiful and the kind of girl you'd date. except that she also designed the bdsm room at the club and likes to use the whip. well for some makes it more interesting.

and yes they have a bdsm room. light play i believe. but indeed it's on the menu.

private rooms are very private, your own room with a closed door, and nice lighting inside with their own sound system. each of them is slightly different, i think there are four downstairs. one is a peep show room (see below). one bdsm (you don't need to partake but there are chains hanging from the ceiling).

what may interest some of you is the upstairs. i asked for a tour when i was leaving so i could report here. upstairs is very clean, very new, like 4. 5 star hotel nice. two "erotik massage" rooms on either end of the floor. these consist of a big red bed which looks like it would hold about 4 people, and i guess you can have your choice of one girl (500 uah) or two (double price) for 30 mins. i don't know what the constraints are on it, just passing the info. looked clean and nice.

there's a shower up there, maybe two or three, and a jacuzzi room with karaoke. very clean, spotless, nice quality furnishings, had a "cleaned and disinfected" sticker on the jacuzzi...