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Jymondor
02-02-18, 20:25
Hi!

I'm having a layover in Kiev in a couple of weeks and I was looking for someone to occupy my time with. Is this ad fake or real?

http://localescorts.com/pin/%E2%9D%A4%EF%B8%8F%E2%9D%A4%EF%B8%8F%E2%9D%A4%EF%B8%8F380934468405-anna-only-real-photo-independent-22/I don't know whether she is real or not. But this is about her:


Day started as previous one. Lots of calls and texts, no answers. Finally, I found the girl TGTBT. We agreed at 17:00. She took my address and wrote that she calling for taxi. I call her at 17:15 to check her status. No answer. I text her. No answer. At 18:00 I text her if I do not hear from her in 15 min I consider our date cancelled. No answer.

You can try if you can afford to waste about two hours of useless waiting. Maybe you'll get more luck. If not, I recommend having Plan B, as well as plans C,D,E...Z as well.

Coyle
02-03-18, 03:51
They are all agencies. Typical bait and trick. These Ukrainian mamas download photos from Russian VK or somewhere else and loaded.

The best way to check is. Add their numbers to your Viber (Whatsapp is not popular any more) and tell them you are in Kiev.

Ask photos. Then they send you whole bunch who are available.

In these days, it looks like they are very desperate to make money. What's irony is that, against this desperateness, price does not go down, more cheating.

Fat and ugly girls will come and fuck you. Even the GIA girls are fat now.


I don't know whether she is real or not. But this is about her:



You can try if you can afford to waste about two hours of useless waiting. Maybe you'll get more luck. If not, I recommend having Plan B, as well as plans C,D,E...Z as well.

Coyle
02-03-18, 04:09
Thought. I knew how to maneuver and get what I want from Kiev.

I posted many tips I knew to share but this time it was disastrous.

It's dark and cold. I got my apartment near Mandarin but damn. There was no grocery store around. Had to spend first night with nothing but one bottle of water from the airport.

Inna. From Gia. Fat and bad ski covered with thick makeup. And her boobs were stony. Gosh. Why did I fly 7500 km to fuck this kind of girl. .

From this, all downhill. Those tall, booby blonde on GIA are away. Steak house cheated on my bills knowing that I was drunk.

Pretty ones are all away maybe due to bad weather and bad economy?

All are desperate to fuck my cock and steal my money. Only the ugly, fat and short ones.

I don't know whether I fucked Ukrainian girls or Ukraine fucked me off.

I am losing my interest in this cheaters.

Deer1234
02-03-18, 09:04
Thank you for your reply.

Where is the SIM shop in KBP airport? If any, it should be in the arrival hall.


All types of SIMs are available at Point of Sale. Sometimes they simply cut larger SIM cards with punch-cutters right there in front of you to make a smaller one. Kyivstar is one of the local carriers. There's a big office on Kreshchatyk next to Passage and another one in Bessarabsky Market. Smaller kiosk are all over Kiev.

There could be a waiting line at the Airport. I have my driver / events manager bring the SIM cards to the airport. Send me PM please, if you want his phone / Viber number. Reliable guy, speaks English. I do not benefit from referencing him.

Deer1234
02-03-18, 09:27
I visited Kiev a couple of times. I met some nice girls through mamba, although many other encounters were mere disasters.

These days, more and more girls, demand pre-payment.

A few months ago, I sent $50 to a pretty girl of 21 years or so in Kiev, after two-month long chats. After receiving this, the girl replied "all right, I will meet you, with my friends".

Recently, I sent $100 to another seemingly honest girl of 19 years from Mykolaiv, after three-month long chats. She asked for the cost for train and room to stay in Kiev. Again, after receiving this, she said, "thank you. I will meet you with my friend as an interpreter". When I asked her not to be accompanied by anyone, she wrote me "did you want to do sex with me?"

In the end, I did not meet either of them, because I thought it would be a waste of time. I keep their photos and true names, to remind me of how stupid I was and I am.

Perhaps, they do not think that what they did was a fraud.

Has anybody of you made prepayment, and successfully met the girl, not just in a cafe, but in your or her room?

Tomek123
02-03-18, 16:46
Thought. I knew how to maneuver and get what I want from Kiev.

I posted many tips I knew to share but this time it was disastrous.

It's dark and cold. I got my apartment near Mandarin but damn. There was no grocery store around. Had to spend first night with nothing but one bottle of water from the airport.

Inna. From Gia. Fat and bad ski covered with thick makeup. And her boobs were stony. Gosh. Why did I fly 7500 km to fuck this kind of girl. .

From this, all downhill. Those tall, booby blonde on GIA are away. Steak house cheated on my bills knowing that I was drunk.

Pretty ones are all away maybe due to bad weather and bad economy?

All are desperate to fuck my cock and steal my money. Only the ugly, fat and short ones.

I don't know whether I fucked Ukrainian girls or Ukraine fucked me off.

I am losing my interest in this cheaters.This is a natural result. Kiev is good for these guys like Jymondor who know the language or are mentally close. They can read in Russian or Ukrainian. Can communicate. To establish communication. Or for guys like Steve69 who have long studied this country. Learned to look for girls and have skills flirting. There is no sex infrastructure. Ukraine is good for those who know its underwater invisible world. Only in this case it conceals in itself a lot of secrets and pleasant surprises and sharp pleasures.

Tomek123
02-03-18, 16:54
I visited Kiev a couple of times. I met some nice girls through mamba, although many other encounters were mere disasters.

These days, more and more girls, demand pre-payment.

A few months ago, I sent $50 to a pretty girl of 21 years or so in Kiev, after two-month long chats. After receiving this, the girl replied "all right, I will meet you, with my friends".

Recently, I sent $100 to another seemingly honest girl of 19 years from Mykolaiv, after three-month long chats. She asked for the cost for train and room to stay in Kiev. Again, after receiving this, she said, "thank you. I will meet you with my friend as an interpreter". When I asked her not to be accompanied by anyone, she wrote me "did you want to do sex with me?"It's just crazy naivety. I do not know how you went to this unreasonable step. This is pure insanity. Maybe it was not the girls and the guys. Did you even call them and heard their female voice?

Ticket to Kiev costs 15 dollars a maximum. The payment of the hotel. Only after the meeting. The prepaid for the hotel. Live in my apartment for two days. What the hell hotel? These conditions do not suit you? Goodbye, baby. This is madness. It's extreme naivety. Prepayment is possible only if it is naked in your apartment on Proreznaya Street.

DramaFree11
02-03-18, 17:11
Unfortunately, this is the norm, guys just do not want to believe and do not post there bad experiences. They get on the computer and look at all the Beautiful pictures, most are fake. It is just not a good place anymore for girls.


Thought. I knew how to maneuver and get what I want from Kiev.

I posted many tips I knew to share but this time it was disastrous.

It's dark and cold. I got my apartment near Mandarin but damn. There was no grocery store around. Had to spend first night with nothing but one bottle of water from the airport.

Inna. From Gia. Fat and bad ski covered with thick makeup. And her boobs were stony. Gosh. Why did I fly 7500 km to fuck this kind of girl. .

From this, all downhill. Those tall, booby blonde on GIA are away. Steak house cheated on my bills knowing that I was drunk..

Jojosun
02-03-18, 18:24
The one and only time I was asked for a Pre-Payment by a Mamba Girl. There are plenty of scammers on Mamba who take their time to lay on the bait.

"Mamba Girl Uncovered", the story back in 2013 . http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=1369894#post1369894.


Forgot to update on the above which might be useful for someone dealing with similar scammers on mamba.

Spoke to her on the phone, whoever she was, asked her whether the photos are her's?

She replies, of course mine. Then I said ok, no need for a copy of your passport, you just need to go to a named bank there and present yourself as they've now got my email with a copy of your photos. Once they confirm 2 me you are the girl in the photos the money is yours.

She wouldn't play along with my plan, insisted on going to western union to get any money.

And that was the end of Mamba Romance.http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1538344

Stevie69
02-03-18, 18:41
Yes, you got severely played. If you only chatted with them (I. E, texted them online) and did not talk or video talked, there is only a 50% chance they were actually women.

Do not send money, ever. If you can, even when you pay for sex, pay afterwards. Non-pros should stay in YOUR place, not a a hotel or apartment you rented for them. Yes; they know that it means they will have to have sex with you, and that is the choice they make. You can reimburse them for the train ticket, buy them a gift or two, take them to a nice dinner, and even give them a little money of the work-days that they skipped AFTER you have sex. Okay, maybe if, upon meeting, you realize that there is no chemistry at all, ask to see the train ticket, give her double the amount, and send her home.

The only reason more girls might "demand" pre-payment is that they heard form their friends that clueless foreigners will do it. Just say NO.


I visited Kiev a couple of times. I met some nice girls through mamba, although many other encounters were mere disasters.

These days, more and more girls, demand pre-payment.

A few months ago, I sent $50 to a pretty girl of 21 years or so in Kiev, after two-month long chats. After receiving this, the girl replied "all right, I will meet you, with my friends".

Recently, I sent $100 to another seemingly honest girl of 19 years from Mykolaiv, after three-month long chats. She asked for the cost for train and room to stay in Kiev. Again, after receiving this, she said, "thank you. I will meet you with my friend as an interpreter". When I asked her not to be accompanied by anyone, she wrote me "did you want to do sex with me?"

Stevie69
02-03-18, 18:46
Last time I was there, there was a little set up with a couple of hot girls. I think it was very close to one of the money exchange places. As always, make sure you get a new, sealed package, and try it out before you leave. I was bold enough to ask for her number to "test it".


Thank you for your reply.

Where is the SIM shop in KBP airport? If any, it should be in the arrival hall.

Jymondor
02-03-18, 19:06
It's just crazy naivety. I do not know how you went to this unreasonable step. This is pure insanity. Maybe it was not the girls and the guys.Totally agree. I do not recommend paying any amount before you see the girl. I already wrote here earlier that I do not pay more than one hour up-front even I see the girl. I pay extra hours only after the girl proves herself in some way.

There are many factors behind that. As Tomek123 mentioned I know the language, habits, customs, and mentality of the Ukrainian girls. It really helps. It was quite a few post here stating that most of the photos on Mamba and sex-ad sites are fake. If are not fake in most of the cases, they are quite old. Sending money to the sweet looking young girl, you have no idea who actually will receive it. And you cannot be sure what you will receive for your money eventually. This is true not for Mamba girls only. This is true for any girl from the sex-ad site that requires any deposit before her arrival.

One more factor has not been discussed here yet. Or, maybe I just missed those posts. It is something strange that derived from the Soviet Union time, and this related even to the girls who never lived in the Soviet Union. They learn that from the older. It is hard to understand for thus who never been in that skin. I'll try to explain.

Ukrainians as well as Russians like to get paid by the foreigners but do not provide the service in full. Not because this is difficult. This is sort of challenge. The mental background of this is as follows: "Foreigners live better than we do, therefore they must pay more".

Ukrainians believe that for the same job foreigners get paid way better. This is partially true. Foreigners working in Ukrainian companies receive significantly better salary than Ukrainians working in the same company even in Kiev. A little bit imagination and Ukrainians think that the foreigners just swimming in money in their home countries. Therefore, it is a good challenge to empty their wallets. The greatest challenge is to empty foreigner's wallet and do not provide what they paid for or provide less. In other words, any foreigner is "лох". Therу is no direct translation. This word is very specific. "Лох" means the very naive man that is an easy target for being duped.

Next factor. In the difference of Romanians, for example, it is not easy for Ukrainian girl to start making money selling their bodies. To work in escort as a pro or semi-pro girls must get some kind of stress before that. She must be broken in some way. Needs in money is not enough for Ukrainian girls to become a prostitute. It means that booking the girls in Kiev, you should expect that the girl is not really kind and sweet as appears. She already had something terrible in her life in spite she keeps smiling. Most of working girls in Kiev already hate you before seeing you just because you are rich, successful and happy. Do not expect much.

Knowing that is easier to realize that Kiev is not a paradise for the mongers at all. Just a legend.

Sure, sugar-babies with long-time relationships are the best scenario for the mongering in Kiev. But this way requires some efforts and some risks. It needs some preparations and back-ups. I know examples when the risks were not justified. I know the man who lost his family just because one sugar-baby wasn't happy when relationships were terminated and fought back. This is not for everyone and definitely not for me.

GDreams
02-04-18, 03:00
I visited Kiev a couple of times. I met some nice girls through mamba, although many other encounters were mere disasters.

These days, more and more girls, demand pre-payment.

A few months ago, I sent $50 to a pretty girl of 21 years or so in Kiev, after two-month long chats. After receiving this, the girl replied "all right, I will meet you, with my friends".

Recently, I sent $100 to another seemingly honest girl of 19 years from Mykolaiv, after three-month long chats. She asked for the cost for train and room to stay in Kiev. Again, after receiving this, she said, "thank you. I will meet you with my friend as an interpreter". When I asked her not to be accompanied by anyone, she wrote me "did you want to do sex with me?"

In the end, I did not meet either of them, because I thought it would be a waste of time. I keep their photos and true names, to remind me of how stupid I was and I am.

Perhaps, they do not think that what they did was a fraud.

Has anybody of you made prepayment, and successfully met the girl, not just in a cafe, but in your or her room?I have occasionally done so. It is usually to test the girl. I have never had a successful outcome but saved myself much more in travel expenses and time.

PhotoSlider
02-04-18, 07:26
Unfortunately, this is the norm, guys just do not want to believe and do not post there bad experiences. They get on the computer and look at all the Beautiful pictures, most are fake. It is just not a good place anymore for girls.Wish I was there right now to suffer while kissing beautiful Natasha's, Anna's and Xenia's for mere 50-70 bucks an hour, while slapping the ugly fat asses till they turn pink, and once in a while enjoying the exceptional ones for the same price.

Guntherus
02-04-18, 16:24
I have occasionally done so. It is usually to test the girl. I have never had a successful outcome but saved myself much more in travel expenses and time.This is an opportunity to remind of two things don't sent money in advance to meeting, these girls (and men, for that matter they can be male with girl's photo) love to suck money out of innocent sex-hungry foreigners. Don't think that you will be the exception, these people are masters of scam. And don't travel to girls, let them travel to you (within Ukraine). If she is serious, she will come to you, because travel is shit-cheap, and young people can easily sleep on trains. Once two girls travelled all night from Simperopol to meet me for two days. We had met earlier that year, and they did not ask for advance money. They knew they could trust me. At the moment, mongering is slow in Kiev. They say it's period days. I don't know what that means =).

DramaFree11
02-04-18, 17:25
I think $200-400 a day is reasonable, but there must be some connection to spent the whole day, it can get pretty boring. As far as pictures go I am pretty private guys for varies reasons, and try to give the same respect to my friends.


1. Would you pay $10/ hour for GIA girl over few days? Rhetoric question.

2. Certainly respect that. I should not have posted either, even if they were not friends. Poor decision on my side.

PhotoSlider
02-05-18, 06:46
Last time I was there, there was a little set up with a couple of hot girls. I think it was very close to one of the money exchange places. As always, make sure you get a new, sealed package, and try it out before you leave. I was bold enough to ask for her number to "test it".You may try calling the airport, see if they speak English, and ask about buying a SIM card at the TerminalD, international arrivals.

Most of the passengers after clearing customs do 2 things: exchange money, and find transportation. SIM cards typically get purchased after checking in at the apartment / hotel within the city. And cards (so called starting or start packets) are sold all over the city. Not sure if instructions are written in English. That's why I prefer either to go to a larger cellular service center, or have a reliable driver bringing the card to the airport, so that I can confirm my meetings with girls already on the way from the airport.

In the past SIM cards had 6-12 months unused phone number expiration policy. Fortunately I already have a couple working ones, and either ask my AirBnB landlord, or my driver to add funds to both of my numbers: Kyivstar and Life -- it is now called lifecell. Then I can Viber as soon as plane touches the ground. Luggage area has free WiFi.

There are ATM-like 24 x7 payment kiosks throughout the city, that accept cash for recharging remotely for all the leading carriers. Your friends in Kiev can also send you funds phone-to-phone easily. 100 UAH (4 USD) will cover 5-7 days easily.

The trick, of course is to get the SIM card first. TripAdvisor says in 2014 SIM cards were available at Borispyl. New TerminalD went into service in 2012. If you don't need SIM right away, buy in the city or at Poznyaki. First metro / subway station. There might be wider choice options. Most kiosks work till 8 pm, even 9 pm.

IMHO the best option is to ask your apartment landlord to arrange for airport pickup with SIM card delivered. It is perfectly OK to do so. I even asked to stock my fridge with variety of drinks and quality food for couple days. In fact it makes it easier for landlord to communicate with you directly. Good landlords usually juggle few arrivals every day.

Deer1234
02-05-18, 08:19
I fully agree with you. Thank you.


It's just crazy naivety. I do not know how you went to this unreasonable step. This is pure insanity. Maybe it was not the girls and the guys. Did you even call them and heard their female voice?

Ticket to Kiev costs 15 dollars a maximum. The payment of the hotel. Only after the meeting. The prepaid for the hotel. Live in my apartment for two days. What the hell hotel? These conditions do not suit you? Goodbye, baby. This is madness. It's extreme naivety. Prepayment is possible only if it is naked in your apartment on Proreznaya Street.

Deer1234
02-05-18, 08:25
I appreciated your advice. They were really female, but mostly, they changed their mind after receiving money.


Yes, you got severely played. If you only chatted with them (I. E, texted them online) and did not talk or video talked, there is only a 50% chance they were actually women.

Do not send money, ever. If you can, even when you pay for sex, pay afterwards. Non-pros should stay in YOUR place, not a a hotel or apartment you rented for them. Yes; they know that it means they will have to have sex with you, and that is the choice they make. You can reimburse them for the train ticket, buy them a gift or two, take them to a nice dinner, and even give them a little money of the work-days that they skipped AFTER you have sex. Okay, maybe if, upon meeting, you realize that there is no chemistry at all, ask to see the train ticket, give her double the amount, and send her home.

The only reason more girls might "demand" pre-payment is that they heard form their friends that clueless foreigners will do it. Just say NO.

Deer1234
02-05-18, 08:27
Thanks, I remember the hot SIM girls, too! I am not bold enough, though.


Last time I was there, there was a little set up with a couple of hot girls. I think it was very close to one of the money exchange places. As always, make sure you get a new, sealed package, and try it out before you leave. I was bold enough to ask for her number to "test it".

Deer1234
02-05-18, 08:47
Yes. I agree with you. I may have saved my precious time in Kiev (which costs multiple hundred $ per day) by wasting just 150 $. At any rate, I avoided ruining a whole day or two in eating lunch with many girls, however beautiful they may look. I knew they are real young girls, because they sent the copies of their passports and college ID cards (to me. 50 $ outweighs the risk of exposing their identity, in Ukraine. It is a pity. A nice amateur girl, with whom I had a paid intimate intercourse in Kiev, demands money from time to time. Professionals will never do so. "Pro" in prostitute stands for professionalism in my civilization, where a prostitute has been respected, or at least sympathized, as a tough and sacred devotion. It seems to me, professionalism rarely exists in Ukraine.


I have occasionally done so. It is usually to test the girl. I have never had a successful outcome but saved myself much more in travel expenses and time.

TheDriller
02-05-18, 14:06
So I am new here and this is my new post.

I want to travel to Ukraine for some 18+ action.

After browsing the web and researching a bit I have a lot of quations.

I'll start reading some of the old posts here and lurk around and see what I can learn.

Since this is the most "alive" thread I am posting here but I might ask general stuff.

Ill note that I speak fluent Russian (I am actually an Ukrainian native) so I can pass as a local and have it easier manoeuvring around.

From where I live the flights to ukraine are very cheap (180 $ for both sides).

I want to rent and apartment (for example airbnb) and have the action there.

So I'll just ask.

1. is there a preferable city to go to for this kind of thing?,for example Kharkov, Kiev, Odessa etc.

What is the difference between the cities? In terms of prices, variety, quality.

2. what would be the prices in this citys? (as I said, to a local) (what are the ups and downs of different cities).

3. how do I find the girls?,I've seached some sites but after snooping around I understood most of the profiles are fake and are of agencies or salons (which I am not interested in).

Even sites that claim "photo verified" I've found some mismatches,(same phone number on different sites for different girls) so I have thoughts on who will appear if I were to call (so I need your help in understanding this), I wouldn't want a wrinkled grandma to appear (or some from where she was 20).

Generally what I am interested in are individual freelancers.

I've found "ukrgo.com" and some girls there claim "not a salon" (and some profiles there look real) (unless you'll guide me other wise).

4. what should I watch out form? (in order not to get ripped of, robbed, stabbed, killed, kiddnapped or whatever).

Idk if this metters for this kind of thing but I am 21 and actaully look good, and just want to expiriance this kind of "journy" and also train my skills a little bit.

Also I said I speak russian, if you wonder why I am here and not in some russian forum is because after years of not reading russian I read like I am in first grade.

Thanks!

Member #4722
02-05-18, 19:00
So I am new here and this is my new post.

I want to travel to Ukraine for some 18+ action.

After browsing the web and researching a bit I have a lot of quations.

I'll start reading some of the old posts here and lurk around and see what I can learn.

Since this is the most "alive" thread I am posting here but I might ask general stuff.

Ill note that I speak fluent Russian (I am actually an Ukrainian native) so I can pass as a local and have it easier manoeuvring around.

From where I live the flights to ukraine are very cheap (180 $ for both sides).

I want to rent and apartment (for example airbnb) and have the action there.

So I'll just ask.

1. is there a preferable city to go to for this kind of thing?,for example Kharkov, Kiev, Odessa etc.

What is the difference between the cities? In terms of prices, variety, quality.

2. what would be the prices in this citys? (as I said, to a local) (what are the ups and downs of different cities).

3. how do I find the girls?,I've seached some sites but after snooping around I understood most of the profiles are fake and are of agencies or salons (which I am not interested in).

Even sites that claim "photo verified" I've found some mismatches,(same phone number on different sites for different girls) so I have thoughts on who will appear if I were to call (so I need your help in understanding this), I wouldn't want a wrinkled grandma to appear (or some from where she was 20).

Generally what I am interested in are individual freelancers.

I've found "ukrgo.com" and some girls there claim "not a salon" (and some profiles there look real) (unless you'll guide me other wise).

4. what should I watch out form? (in order not to get ripped of, robbed, stabbed, killed, kiddnapped or whatever).

Idk if this metters for this kind of thing but I am 21 and actaully look good, and just want to expiriance this kind of "journy" and also train my skills a little bit.

Also I said I speak russian, if you wonder why I am here and not in some russian forum is because after years of not reading russian I read like I am in first grade.

Thanks!Every question you asked is answered in this forum take some time for research.

PhotoSlider
02-05-18, 19:40
...Professionals will never do so. "Pro" in prostitute stands for professionalism in my civilization, where a prostitute has been respected, or at least sympathized, as a tough and sacred devotion. It seems to me, professionalism rarely exists in Ukraine.This is more about a different culture, and about setting expectations right.

When we were younger, and chased girls roughly our age, being stood up for the date might have been a big deal or not. Here these ladies in Kiev typically are much younger than us, and still they behave the same: "I do what I please, and no big deal, 'cause I'm beautiful and there's a lot of them boys trying to meet with me!" At least that's they way they want to be perceived, and it's up to us not to fall into those traps.

In Kiev sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. Better prepared mongers with realistic expectations win more frequently, just like card counters playing black jack in casinos. In the long run good professional gamblers make more, but there might be stretches of bad luck here and there. Period days.). At least there is a chance in black jack, there is no winning system in roulette. Same with Kiev vs. Amsterdam or other pseudo-mongering destinations. There is a chance to win for better prepared in Kiev.

Someone mentioned travelgirls here. It is globally available service created by a couple Lithuanian guys. It helps to find a travel companion. There are two types of those in Kiev: 1. Those that give you a tour of the city: Lavra, Maidan, Cathedrals, churches, hidden cafes, bars and pubs, explain historical events back from XI-XIII century, etc. 2. Second type are Kiev girls that want to ride with you to Egypt, Maldives, etc.

The first type posts cute pictures and writes somewhat flirty description of provided services. They want you to literally "fall in love with Ukraine", and promise to help meeting the girls if you sign up for a nigh tour. The second type reminds an escort, where you have a travel companion, staying in the same hotel room with you, and you also pay for transportation, dinners, entertainment, etc.

Either way, it would not be prudent to assume that there will be anything substantial, unless explicitly stated beforehand. Ukrainian girls are masters of innuendos and endless flirting without actually mating or however you want to call it. Making love, having sex, etc. Even if agreed that it'll happen, unless she is well validated and successfully test-driven before, if you go a week in the row, she may decline making love in the morning, or avoid having it altogether every other day, asking to wait till tomorrow, because her head hurts tonight and thousand other reasons, because she expects you to be a Knight in shining armor and a gentleman.

Feeling betrayed and deceived by that behaviour IMHO is simply childish. Assuming girls will be attracted by your masculinity and charm is daydreaming. It is the same in other countries.

We mongers want this travel to be like a true honeymoon, with tender BBBJ while waking up, passionate doggie after swimming pool right before going for late lunch, and a long 69 followed by too many kama sutra positions before falling asleep completely exhausted. Girls want 1. Make money and 2. Have great time at somebody's expense. If you have game, and are relatively in shape, they'll coast along, and may even portray passion with a different degrees of sincerity. Same old, same old. Even the same girl that was great at 20 yo mere 6-12 months ago, may get jaded and indifferent after having so many dicks in her gorgeous lips.

And as senior respected members stated here: having her come to your apartment in Kiev makes it easier to kick her out after she didn't react to your first hint of a warning that you are mildly displeased with her not being forthcoming. All-inclusive resort makes it much more difficult, especially if you are not in a mongering destination, she feels protected by local laws, and you are at her mercy, which she may have only as long as you show a potential for paying in the nearest future.

Getting back to travelgirls website:

1. City guide type. It is practically guaranteed that 9 out of 10 there will be no sex. No matter how sweet and erotic her pictures are. Some may state it outright, some will be evasive. And that is the dream of many girls in Kiev. Doesn't matter if you are a foreigner or not. The only difference is that foreigners on average bring more money, and waste it more easily. Girls only care in getting the money, and staying their course of not being a prostitute in her own eyes. I've heard stories of city guides even taking visitors to BDSM bars, whipping them vigorously, but no sex. Most of the girls have boyfriends, and are proud of making money independently in a decent way. Boyfriends know.

2. Companion travel. Indeed, Deer1234, you may have gotten off the hook relatively easy. Here is a story:

Foreigner makes arrangements for a beautiful 22 yo Kiev travelgirl to join him in Italy. Pays for her round trip, pays for hotel, 2 days costs him separately $25/ hour = $600 for her services paid in advance. He expects certain favors, and is already drooling. And that's when fireworks start in the bedroom. She ends up asking in the most resentful and indignant manner: "Did you expect I will have sex with you? And leaves him in the bedroom, stating that she'll be at the restaurant. He calms down a little and joins her for dinner. More back and forth ensues, she stands her course relentlessly. She cuts the travel short and returns to Kiev proud because she showed that idiot that she is a travelgirl not a prostitute.

He spent well over a thousand for assuming she is a pro. She was cheaper than GIA, but they didn't agreed upon the scope of contract while procuring it. Make no mistake, she is very pleased not only with the outcome, but also with how it unfolded from the very beginning, there is no remorse. She would do it again, and again.

It wasn't me.

Bottomline: have the girls come to you. Do not waste precious time and hard-earned money. Do not fall into the trap of pre-pay, and "Let's go to Paris together", "why you are so greedy? "don't you trust me? And "we will have great time! Their perception of great time is different from yours.

If your lady of the night is totally new, have her for one hour, pre-pay might be OK. After that it's still a game, but at least you know what is her potential.

Having said all that, I am still a good example of the fact that great time can be head in Kiev. YMMV, and cheating Ukrainian gilrs have nothing to do with that. Too many of us returned from trips fascinated and exhilarated. Time to grow up.

Best of luck!

PhotoSlider
02-05-18, 21:14
So I am new here and this is my new post.

I want to travel to Ukraine for some 18+ action.

After browsing the web and researching a bit I have a lot of quations.

I'll start reading some of the old posts here and lurk around and see what I can learn.

Since this is the most "alive" thread I am posting here but I might ask general stuff...What you are asking for is not exactly a complimentary service? Billing rate of gentlemen on Forum who can answer this is too high.

Jymondor
02-05-18, 22:27
Every question you asked is answered in this forum take some time for research.Too many words. It could be shorter: RTFF.

Deer1234
02-06-18, 11:15
Thank you very much for the useful information.


This is more about a different culture, and about setting expectations right.

When we were younger, and chased girls roughly our age, being stood up for the date might have been a big deal or not. Here these ladies in Kiev typically are much younger than us, and still they behave the same: "I do what I please, and no big deal, 'cause I'm beautiful and there's a lot of them boys trying to meet with me!" At least that's they way they want to be perceived, and it's up to us not to fall into those traps.

Best of luck!

Deer1234
02-06-18, 11:31
Hello.

Q1. I want to go to Chernigov (1063;1077;1088;1085;1080;1075;1086;1074 from Kiev, to meet a girl. Chernigov is 150 km (2 hour by car) from Kiev.

How much is it by taxi?

There seems to be a direct bus, but I do not want to spend 4 hours (or 8 hours on round trip) which would tire me before everything more important.

Q2. Which apartment in Kiev would you suggest? The apartment I often used has a very poor air conditioner, and thus is extremely cold in this season.

I prefer an apartment where an alien guest cannot enter the building and elevator without a security card, or without being accompanied by one who stays there.

I am nervous about security. Of course, I do not want the clerk to check a girl.

Tomek123
02-06-18, 13:16
One of my charming friends wrote to me that she desperately needs money. But I can not be in Kiev and Ukraine at this time. She asks me who to find. This is her photo. She will be at this time in Kiev. Friday and Saturday. As I understand it on 9 and 10 February. Here on the forum you can not give contacts. So you can write to me PM.

I told her that she is a little stupid and she needs to leave Ukraine at least to the Poland and even better in Paris or Berlin. Where she quickly finds a rich husband or very good sponsor. 18 years old and she can not yet leave her country. She seems to be studying at the academy.

A friend of mine from Norway saw her photo and said that if she comes to Norway and gives an announcement, she will earn even without sex 200-300 euros a day. Just 50-60 euros for a massage and Hand Job. If she agrees to fuck then it can be even 400-500 euros per hour and even more- her phone will be constantly ringing.

I know her. She's a good girl. But a bit ambitious. But she's not angry. Just a bit stupid. She has a sick father and she has a complicated relationship with her mother as she says.

GDreams
02-06-18, 17:03
Hello.

Q1. I want to go to Chernigov (1063;1077;1088;1085;1080;1075;1086;1074 from Kiev, to meet a girl. Chernigov is 150 km (2 hour by car) from Kiev.

How much is it by taxi?

There seems to be a direct bus, but I do not want to spend 4 hours (or 8 hours on round trip) which would tire me before everything more important.

Q2. Which apartment in Kiev would you suggest? The apartment I often used has a very poor air conditioner, and thus is extremely cold in this season.

I prefer an apartment where an alien guest cannot enter the building and elevator without a security card, or without being accompanied by one who stays there.

I am nervous about security. Of course, I do not want the clerk to check a girl.There are many apartment rental groups just google. I used to use uaapartments but its been a long while. Always get an apartment close to Kreshatik as it is easy for girls to come in by bus or metro. Baseina, Pushinska, Mala Zhitmoskaya, Michaelovska, Shota Rustevilli are are good central streets.

PhotoSlider
02-06-18, 17:51
Hello.

Q1. I want to go to Chernigov (1063;1077;1088;1085;1080;1075;1086;1074 from Kiev, to meet a girl. Chernigov is 150 km (2 hour by car) from Kiev.

How much is it by taxi?Online taxi quotes are under $80.


There seems to be a direct bus, but I do not want to spend 4 hours (or 8 hours on round trip) which would tire me before everything more important.Taxi would be tiring too, and there is a risk of car accident. But all of this is not important. IMHO you make yourself vulnerable for no reason.

Let us say you go there, and she is no show. And all this time while you are riding a taxi there, and then wait for her (even if she shows up), and then go back to Kiev, you could have had multiple other girls in Kiev. Each way of your round trip taxi translates into one call girl delivered to your door, or a fancy dinner for two at the nice restaurant relaxing. Especially important if you only have short 5-7 days total time to visit.

Some folks on the Forum here advertise Sumy and Kharkiv and other locations. I am aligned with the opposite school of thought: have the girl come to you, pay for her train or bus upon her arrival to your residence. This is much more efficient. Then they risk to loose time, not you. Infrastructure in Kiev is much more developed in many respects, regardless of the season. You'll have many more options.


Q2. Which apartment in Kiev would you suggest? The apartment I often used has a very poor air conditioner, and thus is extremely cold in this season.

I prefer an apartment where an alien guest cannot enter the building and elevator without a security card, or without being accompanied by one who stays there.
I am nervous about security. Of course, I do not want the clerk to check a girl.Controversial requirements. You describe hotel-type security, yet do not want a check-in reception staff stopping your visitors. AirBnB has reviews, very useful feature, you can also ask landlord via Viber.

You seem too paranoid. Kiev is just like another big city in Europe or anywhere else. If you survived in Rome, or San Francisco or Frankfurt, with basic reasonable precautions you'll be fine in Kiev. I felt safe downtown any time day and night. Projecting confidence without unnecessary arrogance doesn't attract attention. At the same time ladies themselves told me that things happen and some poor girls cannot resist temptation. One long-term GIA beauty, while 4 of us (2+2) were drinking and singing songs in my kitchen, has been watching that another one from competitors, that fell asleep in the bedroom, doesn't steal anything. Felt funny back then, but she must have seen things happen, maybe before she started working at GIA.

Secure your valuables in the room, do not leave anything in the plain view or easily retrievable.

Riina
02-06-18, 18:19
Any suggestions as to what are your best options in Kiev if you just want a blowjob? What's a fair price for strictly BJ to a Mamba girl?

Misterxxx
02-06-18, 20:39
Hello.

Q1. I want to go to Chernigov (1063;1077;1088;1085;1080;1075;1086;1074 from Kiev, to meet a girl. Chernigov is 150 km (2 hour by car) from Kiev.

How much is it by taxi?

There seems to be a direct bus, but I do not want to spend 4 hours (or 8 hours on round trip) which would tire me before everything more important.

Q2. Which apartment in Kiev would you suggest? The apartment I often used has a very poor air conditioner, and thus is extremely cold in this season.

I prefer an apartment where an alien guest cannot enter the building and elevator without a security card, or without being accompanied by one who stays there.

I am nervous about security. Of course, I do not want the clerk to check a girl.You wrote Chernigov. It's not so far away from Kiev. About 2 hours in the bus. Not 4 hours. I did the tour 2 years ago. The bus starts near to the trainstation in the center. But there is another stop at the Lisova Metro. In the east of Kiew and at the other side of the river. That makes the trip much shorter and more comfortable.

If somebody told you about 4 hours in the bus, it must be a different city. Or you asked for the wrong bus. Anyway you must be sure that it's Chernigov und not Chernivtsi. Even booking.com made this mistake. When I tried to book my accomodation, I found some Chernivtsi Hotels in Chernigov. Guess they already fixed this problem )))

About the apartment: There are several apartment agencies that operate as a "mini-hotel". With concierge. Theatre Boutique Apart Hotel for example. But also Partner Guest House has a lot of apartments in Shota Rustavelli 44 with janitor.

ASUDevil1
02-06-18, 23:12
One of my charming friends wrote to me that she desperately needs money. But I can not be in Kiev and Ukraine at this time. She asks me who to find. This is her photo. She will be at this time in Kiev. Friday and Saturday. As I understand it on 9 and 10 February. Here on the forum you can not give contacts. So you can write to me PM.

I told her that she is a little stupid and she needs to leave Ukraine at least to the Poland and even better in Paris or Berlin. Where she quickly finds a rich husband or very good sponsor. 18 years old and she can not yet leave her country. She seems to be studying at the academy.

A friend of mine from Norway saw her photo and said that if she comes to Norway and gives an announcement, she will earn even without sex 200-300 euros a day. Just 50-60 euros for a massage and Hand Job. If she agrees to fuck then it can be even 400-500 euros per hour and even more- her phone will be constantly ringing.

I know her. She's a good girl. But a bit ambitious. But she's not angry. Just a bit stupid. She has a sick father and she has a complicated relationship with her mother as she says.Clear out some of your inbox messages, we can't PM you because the inbox is full.

Jojosun
02-07-18, 00:38
Hello.

Q2. Which apartment in Kiev would you suggest? The apartment I often used has a very poor air conditioner, and thus is extremely cold in this season.

I prefer an apartment where an alien guest cannot enter the building and elevator without a security card, or without being accompanied by one who stays there.

I am nervous about security. Of course, I do not want the clerk to check a girl.Nice, safe and very central.

https://www.kievinn.ua/apartments.html

Very good reviews on TripAdvisor.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g294474-d1627212-Reviews-KievInn_Apartment_Complex-Kiev.html

Kozerog
02-07-18, 01:57
I've been lurking here for a while and decided today to become a member and start posting. Please excuse occasional bad spelling. This forum is not mobile enabled, which makes it harder to review my posts before submitting.

Like other people here, I had mixed results with the $50/ hour girls from the hidden agencies. No fatties, thankfully, but a few had big hideous tattoos, one appeared shell-shocked from bad experiences with a potential client and just lay stiffly and trembling in bed at first (I managed to relax her eventually), most who were advertised as speaking English couldn't speak more than a few words (fortunately, I speak intermediate Russian), most refused to kiss, several left their electronic crackpipe turned on and then pretended not to understand when I asked them to turn it off after it beeped right in the middle of the session. Finally found a jewel in this rubbish heap and then proceed to do what most of the other mongers here don't have the sense to do. Namely, become a repeat customer when someone gives me good service. Same thing when I find a good apartment landlord, same thing for other services in Kiev. There are many honest people in Kiev who are anxious to provide good service at a good price and improve their economic condition. When you find such a person, become a repeat customer instead of constantly looking for something better just because you are on vacation and bored and everything is cheap in Kiev right now.

At Tomek: please don't tell that girl what you are telling us, about the possibility of making $500/ hour on Norway.

At Deer1234: To elaborate on what I wrote above, it is positively immoral the way you are behaving. You are rewarding dishonest people and not rewarding the honest ones. If you are new to Kiev and inexperienced, then you have to pay full price. Contact the Gia agency and all them to recommend a hotel where their girls are admitted. Then go through their girls one by one until you find one that clicks. Make sure you can pay one hour initially and then extend if you like the girl. Then see that girl several more times. This completes your initial experience with Ukrainian *****mongering. You are leaving lots of money on the table, compared to what more experienced mongers can achieve, but that extra money provides an incentive for the Gia agency to make things work. On future visits, you can try to get better prices.

I have never tried Gia myself, but I understand the concepts of name branding and repeat customer. Unlike all the hidden agencies, Gia has a brand name, so they have an incentive to make things work for those who can pay their prices. And if you show yourself to be a repeat customer, they have an even stronger incentive to make things work. So this is where the beginners should go. Yes the prices are high, but foolishly sending money to girls in other cities like Deer1234 is doing and getting nothing on return is even more expensive in the long run.

Ukraine is a mess economically and likely to remain so for decades to come. Where are the beautiful young women of Ukraine going to get the money to raise a family, including a new generation of working girls? People worry about polar bears and sharks and tigers going extinct, but what about beautiful Ukrainian working girls going extinct? Does no one care about that? I care, and so I do my best to help them survive by mongering in Ukraine, and I recommend other men to the same. But you need to do so in a moral way: money in exchange for quality services. That is sustainable. Throwing money around like Deer1234 is don't is just going to leave him disgusted with Ukraine so that he never wants to visit again'and thus never spends any more money there. Nor good for him, not good for the girls of Ukraine.

Attn admin; please mobile enable this sure.

Coyle
02-07-18, 02:34
Do you really care about what Kiev people perceive you? LOL.

Any apartment uploaded on Airbnb is good. Since Ukrainians respect this American websites more than their local laws or policeman.

Plus, they are dying to make foreign money so they do care about their reputation over the website.

I've never been disappointed at their service.

Once, I fucked the girl who came to check me out just before the flight. This cleaning lady+collecting key was sexy and I just grabbed and did it. Huh!


Nice, safe and very central.

https://www.kievinn.ua/apartments.html

Very good reviews on TripAdvisor.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g294474-d1627212-Reviews-KievInn_Apartment_Complex-Kiev.html

Jymondor
02-07-18, 14:45
Nice, safe and very central.

https://www.kievinn.ua/apartments.html

Very good reviews on TripAdvisor.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g294474-d1627212-Reviews-KievInn_Apartment_Complex-Kiev.htmlI cannot believe how much extra $$ customers must pay just because they do not speak Russian or Ukrainian.

https://miete.com.ua/Kyiv

Misterxxx
02-07-18, 16:08
I cannot believe how much extra $$ customers must pay just because they do not speak Russian or Ukrainian.

https://miete.com.ua/KyivDo you really believe that everybody is so stupid. ? The problem is not only the language. Most of the cheap places on that site looking terrible. No euro-renovation. Grannys old furniture. Smelling (I'm sure).

Euro-renovation is always expensive and it's not easy to find a good "master" in the ukraine.

The next problem is the security of your booking. No guarantee that the owner don't rent the apartments to somebody else. You want to stay 3 nights, another guy asking for 7 nights.

Many owners will simply cancel your booking. Even in the last moment. Or they even don't contact you. You arrive in Kiev and will stay on the street. Great pleasure in the winter (with minus 12 degrees).

Anyway you can be sure that the calendar on that site is not up to date.

Also don't trust the price that is quoted on the site. The owners might write 500 UAH, but in reality it can be much more. They will tell you it's the price if you stay two weeks or so. And the amount is much higher for a single night or a weekend.

Especially on holidays (new year, easter holidays) the prices can be crazy. Nobody would give the apartment for that money. And not even for double or triple price.

But anyway: It's up to you if you want to rent an apartment from amateurs or real professionals. Even an expensive agency like partner guest house has a lot of clients from the ukraine. Ukrainian people who know about such a site with cheap apartments and who can call there without any problem. Do you believe that all these clients are stupid. ?

Member #4722
02-07-18, 16:12
I always use Olga apartments. Really good guys I would not deal with anyone else.

Jymondor
02-07-18, 16:13
Do you really believe that everybody is so stupid. ? The problem is not only the language. Most of the cheap places on that site looking terrible. No euro-renovation. Grannys old furniture. Smelling (I'm sure).Lasts time I stay here: https://miete.com.ua/Kyiv/16164.

Not luxury, but decent. Fresh renovation. New furniture. No smelling. Lots of towels, which is important for mongering. Bargained 800 UAH/night.
The only cons the bed was squeaking a bit.

Kozerog
02-07-18, 19:43
As with other services (including girls), I recommend sticking with good providers once you find one. The repeat customer gets the best deal and the fewest unpleasant surprises. Also, once there is trust, you can pay cash (hrivnia currency) with no receipt for a further discount.

Some things to watch for:

1) Noise from neighboring apartments.

2) Hidden camera in room.

3) Landlord steals things while you are out.

4) Apartment not secure and someone other than landlord breaks in and steals.

5) Landlord takes money in advance then changes lock and denies you paid when you complain to police.

6) Landlord not available when you have problems (lost key, lock jammed, washing machine breaks, etc).

7) Cancels reservation at last minute (this can happen even with AirBnb).

I usually rent an apartment for a week from AirBnb then arrange to pay cash for additional weeks if the apartment and landlord are good. I've been doing this for about 4 years in many places, including Ukraine (I'm retired and travel most of the year, but most mongering in Ukraine).

Jymondor
02-07-18, 23:29
Lasts time I stay here: https://miete.com.ua/Kyiv/16164.

Not luxury, but decent. Fresh renovation. New furniture. No smelling. Lots of towels, which is important for mongering. Bargained 800 UAH/night.
The only cons the bed was squeaking a bit.One thing more. Please look at this snaphot: https://i.imgur.com/EyCd9Tg.jpg.

My search took less that 3 min.

Two pictures above were taken from Airbnb. The picture below was taken from the site that has no English. This is the same apartment.

As you can see, the price for foreigners is $102 CAD, but if you speak Russian / Ukrainian you can rent it at $88CAD. But if you keep searching local sites you can get at for 1500 UAH, which is $69 CAD. 48% is quite of a difference.

Riina
02-08-18, 00:03
As you can see, the price for foreigners is $102 CAD, but if you speak Russian / Ukrainian you can rent it at $88CAD. But if you keep searching local sites you can get at for 1500 UAH, which is $69 CAD. 48% is quite of a difference.You have to be very careful doing business with random Ukrainians. The savings just isn't worth the grief for most of us here.

PhotoSlider
02-08-18, 01:40
Lasts time I stay here: https://miete.com.ua/Kyiv/16164.

Not luxury, but decent. Fresh renovation. New furniture. No smelling. Lots of towels, which is important for mongering. Bargained 800 UAH/night.
The only cons the bed was squeaking a bit.$30/ day with lots of towels is certainly good. I thought about having one like that as a backup option, while renting an apartment in Kiev together with visiting relatives. For the usual touristy entertainment during the day, and occasional escaping for few hours and a quick fuck. Ended up going 5 times to "Sosud" on Khmelnitskogo and Honchara. Great establishment, lisping Jessica was conscientious provider. Too bad police closed the shop. Not sure the reason, must have been money one way or the other.

Landlords usually do not care about cleaning when you stay under 4-5 days.

I prefer longer stays, 2-3 weeks. Downtown is another criterion, walk around on foot and avoid taxi. I schedule cleaning in advance, every 3-4 days, because, you know, some girls frown when linen are not crisp and fresh. And if the girl does not care about clean bed, then maybe I do not want to meet her.

I also ask landlord for a stack of fresh spare linen, came in handy when I had to change in the middle of the night after a minor accident 3 months ago.

Having cleaning scheduled in advance with disciplined AirBnB landlord also helps with planning parties at "mi casa". Some parties are scheduled before the arrival to Kiev.

Difference between $30 and $80 accumulates quickly over 10-15-20 days, but unfortunately I do not visit Kiev that often, and when I invite ladies, I want them to feel relaxed, and be happy myself. It is not about impressing them, more about personal comfort level I became accustomed to. Avoid Khrushchev and Brezhnev style apartments, even with major renovations inside. Pre-revolution is the best, even some of the Soviet Empire style architecture around Khreshhatyk is acceptable.

It is my vacation, I want to have great time. Yes, it means good chunk of cash, it also means I look forward to and feel content returning to this temporary residence from a walk, - being it with somebody, or solo.

Diving lessons in jacuzzi can be so much fun! Got to have some space for those.

Decent downtown 1-bedroom is available for $50-60/ night. I prefer 2-bedroom, so that I do not have to mate in the dining room, while my friend is in the bedroom testing durability of certain products. Or I can choose to sleep separate from girlfriend, to fully recharge the batteries. Having young fresh naked body pretending to sleep next to me often leads to insufficient rest. Good girls do not let me sleep alone regardless of my desire, even when I try. One of criteria to differentiate while choosing them for long term stay).

Jymondor
02-08-18, 01:51
Diving lessons in jacuzzi can be so much fun! Got to have some space for those.Good hint! I will look for the apartment with double-size Jacuzzi for my next visit. Never thought about that before.

Jymondor
02-08-18, 02:17
2) Hidden camera in room.What? Are you serious? Is that possible? How to make sure that no cameras in the rooms?

PhotoSlider
02-08-18, 03:02
You have to be very careful doing business with random Ukrainians. The savings just isn't worth the grief for most of us here.Agree with Riina yet again. I had one of those Ukrainian energetic entrepreneurial landladies, making laughable attempts at helping with booking.

She sent the pictures of superb (in her opinion) properties via Viber. I asked for street address, - she gave non-existing one. Asked 5 (five) times for URL to check out the property online, - she avoided answering in the most peculiar manner. She even promised that URL 3 times, I received nothing, - zero! She saw online that I ended up renting from a different provider, and she tried via Viber to force me canceling that new contract, while admitting that she herself is not even in Ukraine, working remotely. She has no idea how to run this business with the customer from different part of the world. Cheating is the norm. Would never go with her.

Had apartment changed on me at the last moment by other ones.

I also had honest straightforward Ukrainian landlords, very reliable every time I did business with them via AirBnB.

I really like AirBnB's feedback system. For example one visitor mentioned that their second floor apartment next to St. Sophia has been broken into from the balcony, ruining their stay.

Feedback is available for both: landlords and customers. Landlords did rate me as an "Excellent guest! Never ever any problems. Very happy!

I mostly behaved. They did see girls 25-30 years younger than me, not behaving as my nieces, arriving with me from the airport or while I was checking in, and different girls checking out with me while departing, forgetting their high heels and lingerie all over the place.

Older buildings have thick solid walls and neighbors never complained about the noise or constant "change of guards" - kaleidoscope of ladies coming and going. Neighbors are immune to noise downtown. Could be a different story in the newer 1960-1970 apartments where sound isolation through the thinner walls is not as good.

One apartment on Khreshchatyk had old baboushka sentries sitting 24 x 7 in the small booth behind the entrance door. One of them attempted to discipline me, saying something about moral principles and revolving door. I politely yet firmly stopped her tirade before she had a chance to explain what she thought of a 19 yo village beauty from Rivne. Hehehe. She understood that I am hopeless and never ever tried to elaborate further.

Kozerog
02-08-18, 04:11
What? Are you serious? Is that possible? How to make sure that no cameras in the rooms?Yes, I'm serious. This was an AirBnb apartment in Ukraine, I think Kiev but I'm not sure. It wasn't me but I trust the person who told the story. And there are lots of other reports of this problem on the internet. Modern video cameras are very small. If the camera is communicating via wireless to a remote recording station, then you could easily detect it with the right equipment. But not so easy if the camera is simply recording to an internal SD card.

AirBnb did nothing when the guy complained and I think they took his review down because the landlord lied and said he (the renter) was making the story up to get revenge because of a dispute with the landlord. One person's word against another.

It's also a problem in some cheap hotels. Some countries have strict laws to punish people who record video without permission, but good luck getting help from the police and courts in a situation like this in Ukraine.

Note that you can also install your own camera to take secret videos, in case you suspect the landlord or cleaning person is snooping in your belongings while you are out.

I'm retired and have no friends and little contract with my relatives, so I don't much care if a video of me shows up on the internet doing something with a working girl. Those of you with a reputation to worry about should be more cautious. However, even I don't really like the idea of being filmed in my apartment, which is why I pay $750/ month when I could easily get the same thing for $500/ month (I stay a month at a time in Kiev) because I trust this landlord. The apartment is Khrushchev era with a filthy stairwell. I feel at home there. The little jewel I found after digging through the $50/ hour rubbish heap doesn't seem to mind the humbleness of the apartment either. Mainly she cares about the 500 hrivnia hours neatly spread out on the table.

Also, to whoever wrote that girls frown if sheets aren't "crispy": if they have that sort of prima donna attitude, I suggest you dismiss them right away. Just taxi fare and nothing else. Because if they are that picky about sheets (or renovated modern furnishings versus grandmothers old bed or whatever) , they'll also probably be picky about other things once they get undressed. Though sometimes the worst prima donnas are the most debauched once they get in bed. But in that case, they'll be even more debauched if you make them lie on dirty sheets, or such was my experience with the one prima donna escort I had dealings with (the debauchery was not enough to make up for her other defects, so I stopped seeing her and avoid prima donnas now). Prima donnas usually come from very poor backgrounds, drunken fathers, maybe childhood sexual abuse, etc. The prima donna attitude is a defense mechanism against shame and low self-esteem. If you want a prima donna to love you, you have to treat her badly, same as her father and other men from her childhood. I prefer not to get involved with such mental sickness.

PhotoSlider
02-08-18, 08:46
Good hint! I will look for the apartment with double-size Jacuzzi for my next visit. Never thought about that before.Check out photos for this apartment:

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13075739

My last visitor at this place was a "whisky drinking woman", just like in 1975 song by Scottish band Nazareth. We were in the bedroom, when I extended her stay for one more hour, while listening to Diana giggling in the jacuzzi with my friend.

2013, what a great year! This property doesn't have any reviews, because it has changed landlord. The new one, Elena, I would never rent from. Too bad. Sweet memories, but no more. Agree with Kozerog: stick with good providers once you find one. Read AirBnB reviews. Elena is more than questionable. Good example of what can go wrong with renting.

Jymondor
02-08-18, 18:15
Yes, I'm serious. This was an AirBnb apartment in Ukraine, I think Kiev but I'm not sure. It wasn't me but I trust the person who told the story. And there are lots of other reports of this problem on the internet. Modern video cameras are very small. If the camera is communicating via wireless to a remote recording station, then you could easily detect it with the right equipment. But not so easy if the camera is simply recording to an internal SD card.This makes me worry now. I will research it. Even one chance of then thousand is a high level of risk to me.

Jymondor
02-08-18, 18:17
Check out photos for this apartment:
https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/13075739Thanks. I already preselected few variants. Airbnb has a search option "Hot tub", which means Jacuzzi in Kiev.

PhotoSlider
02-08-18, 19:49
This makes me worry now. I will research it. Even one chance of then thousand is a high level of risk to me.What an opportunity! Lately I considered becoming a porn star. Retire from mundane routine and add spice to life.

Put latex or leather outfit covering face and everything else, except genitals, hopefully hiding my personality, kinda like gimp in "Pulp Fiction" movie:

https://www.spotern.com/en/spot/movie/pulp-fiction/4574/the-mask-sm-of-the-cramp-the-gimp-in-pulp-fiction

Perhaps rather than slave, make myself more of a heavy metal master with rivets and spikes. Then find that hidden camera and wiggle my dick and balls at it! Then invite 2-3 girls in similar attire and continue until inspiration generates no more new ideas.

Jymondor, I understand your concern wholeheartedly, yet cannot resist the temptation.

Member #4722
02-09-18, 05:28
I got an email recently saying they have video of me with a prostitute in Kiev and that I must send thousands of dollars in bitcoin to a certain account within 24 hours. It's my fake email and I know its bullshit but kind of sketchy since it must be someone I have communicated with in the past via Mamba. I know its bullshit and I would never pay a cent even if it weren't. Never put anything past these Ukranians!

PhotoSlider
02-09-18, 07:54
I got an email recently saying they have video of me with a prostitute in Kiev and that I must send thousands of dollars in bitcoin to a certain account within 24 hours. It's my fake email and I know its bullshit but kind of sketchy since it must be someone I have communicated with in the past via Mamba. I know its bullshit and I would never pay a cent even if it weren't. Never put anything past these Ukranians!The plot thickens! What a poor jew should do now? Was it those Nigerian scumbags? Did they ask for your passport numbers? Say your name is Sherlock Holmes, and Vitali Klitschko, Kiev's Mayor himself is your patron. Numerous ex-wives and adopted children from Bangladesh are shedding their tears in vain.

Riina
02-09-18, 13:00
I got an email recently saying they have video of me with a prostitute in Kiev and that I must send thousands of dollars in bitcoin to a certain account within 24 hours. It's my fake email and I know its bullshit but kind of sketchy since it must be someone I have communicated with in the past via Mamba. I know its bullshit and I would never pay a cent even if it weren't. Never put anything past these Ukranians!I got the same thing Rog this past Monday. My email was isolated to a Mamba and an expat forum profile. I share a different email with girls.

Jojosun
02-09-18, 14:13
What an opportunity! Lately I considered becoming a porn star. Retire from mundane routine and add spice to life.

Put latex or leather outfit covering face and everything else, except genitals, hopefully hiding my personality, kinda like gimp in "Pulp Fiction" movie:

https://www.spotern.com/en/spot/movie/pulp-fiction/4574/the-mask-sm-of-the-cramp-the-gimp-in-pulp-fiction

n.Maybe an enterprising Ukrainian re-incarnates a Big Sister Club in Kiev just like it was in Prague where all the sex was FREE, Would that put you Off?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lDqESMnJDI

BigSister-Second Cut.

PhotoSlider
02-09-18, 19:20
Maybe an enterprising Ukrainian re-incarnates a Big Sister Club in Kiev just like it was in Prague where all the sex was FREE, Would that put you Off?...Naaaah! The whole point is to find secret cameras and have fun revealing to voyeurs they are not hidden anymore.

GunningPeter
02-09-18, 21:32
Thinking of a trip to Kyiv, my second one ever, and I am tempted by this service although the pictures are not real at least for one lady whom I contacted by WhatsApp.

http://relaxkiev.com/eng/

I suppose it is a good sign that you can actually reach the ladies via phone numbers.

Also that not every lady apparently is ready to do everything (some allow for French kissing others BBBJ), which means that this seems pretty legit.

Thanks for any feedback.

Jojosun
02-10-18, 04:10
Nice, safe and very central.

https://www.kievinn.ua/apartments.html

Very good reviews on TripAdvisor.

https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g294474-d1627212-Reviews-KievInn_Apartment_Complex-Kiev.htmlAway from the above, a Great private retreat when Kiev is freezing. 2 Is company more is an Orgy.

Jymondor
02-10-18, 04:27
Thinking of a trip to Kyiv, my second one ever, and I am tempted by this service although the pictures are not real at least for one lady whom I contacted by WhatsApp.

http://relaxkiev.com/eng/

I suppose it is a good sign that you can actually reach the ladies via phone numbers.

Also that not every lady apparently is ready to do everything (some allow for French kissing others BBBJ), which means that this seems pretty legit.

Thanks for any feedback.I doubt that you will reach the lady. You will reach a female operator. All photos fake. Definitely, you'll find a girl there, but totally different than you see in the pictures and more likely way older. This business is not legit in Ukraine.

Deer1234
02-10-18, 12:04
Thank you very much for your information. I always used to stay in Ziliyanska street. Is this good or bad?


There are many apartment rental groups just google. I used to use uaapartments but its been a long while. Always get an apartment close to Kreshatik as it is easy for girls to come in by bus or metro. Baseina, Pushinska, Mala Zhitmoskaya, Michaelovska, Shota Rustevilli are are good central streets.

Deer1234
02-10-18, 12:07
Thank you very much for your useful advice.

I agree with you that going to a remote place may waste time if the girl does not appear.


Online taxi quotes are under $80.

Taxi would be tiring too, and there is a risk of car accident. But all of this is not important. IMHO you make yourself vulnerable for no reason.

Let us say you go there, and she is no show. And all this time while you are riding a taxi there, and then wait for her (even if she shows up), and then go back to Kiev, you could have had multiple other girls in Kiev. Each way of your round trip taxi translates into one call girl delivered to your door, or a fancy dinner for two at the nice restaurant relaxing. Especially important if you only have short 5-7 days total time to visit.

Some folks on the Forum here advertise Sumy and Kharkiv and other locations. I am aligned with the opposite school of thought: have the girl come to you, pay for her train or bus upon her arrival to your residence. This is much more efficient. Then they risk to loose time, not you. Infrastructure in Kiev is much more developed in many respects, regardless of the season. You'll have many more options..

Deer1234
02-10-18, 12:10
Thank you very much for your useful advice.

I will check the name of destiation.


You wrote Chernigov. It's not so far away from Kiev. About 2 hours in the bus. Not 4 hours. I did the tour 2 years ago. The bus starts near to the trainstation in the center. But there is another stop at the Lisova Metro. In the east of Kiew and at the other side of the river. That makes the trip much shorter and more comfortable.

If somebody told you about 4 hours in the bus, it must be a different city. Or you asked for the wrong bus. Anyway you must be sure that it's Chernigov und not Chernivtsi. Even booking.com made this mistake. When I tried to book my accomodation, I found some Chernivtsi Hotels in Chernigov. Guess they already fixed this problem )))

About the apartment: There are several apartment agencies that operate as a "mini-hotel". With concierge. Theatre Boutique Apart Hotel for example. But also Partner Guest House has a lot of apartments in Shota Rustavelli 44 with janitor.

Deer1234
02-10-18, 12:13
Thank you very much for your information about Gia agency.

I will try to contact Gia.


I've been lurking here for a while and decided today to become a member and start posting. Please excuse occasional bad spelling. This forum is not mobile enabled, which makes it harder to review my posts before submitting.

Like other people here, I had mixed results with the $50/ hour girls from the hidden agencies. No fatties, thankfully, but a few had big hideous tattoos, one appeared shell-shocked from bad experiences with a potential client and just lay stiffly and trembling in bed at first (I managed to relax her eventually), most who were advertised as speaking English couldn't speak more than a few words (fortunately, I speak intermediate Russian), most refused to kiss, several left their electronic crackpipe turned on and then pretended not to understand when I asked them to turn it off after it beeped right in the middle of the session. Finally found a jewel in this rubbish heap and then proceed to do what most of the other mongers here don't have the sense to do. Namely, become a repeat customer when someone gives me good service. Same thing when I find a good apartment landlord, same thing for other services in Kiev. There are many honest people in Kiev who are anxious to provide good service at a good price and improve their economic condition. When you find such a person, become a repeat customer instead of constantly looking for something better just because you are on vacation and bored and everything is cheap in Kiev right now..

Tsnexoa
02-10-18, 13:02
A trip report, for those interested.

TL, DR: Great trip, all girls were great 4/5 students, very nice, no issues or bait and switch or money issues. A+++ would recommend. Not sure I will go back due to Kiev being such a maddeningly drab city. I donated 1000 UAH / HR, max 3000 UAH. All stayed for about 2-3 h min, Thursday even longer. All kissed and GFE etc etc.

I had to make my first trip to Kiev for a week for work, so I thought hey, let's fire up Mamba and see what we can get. It took some work, but I was able to get a rolodex of girls wanting to meet me, and the ones I did have time to meet were all fantastic.

Monday: 20 yr old student. Beautiful body, I told her she looked young and she showed me her ID, but wow did she not have an inch of fat anywhere on her. Petite 5 feet tall, she was simply fantastic. She was a little spitfire, we would drink champagne, fuck, and run outside in our skivvies and coats for a smoke. She was wild in general and totally relaxed and fun to be around. 3 xsex, wanted to meet her again, but we couldn't arrange it with times. She was just super laid back and cool, and super tight.

Tuesday: 20 yr Student, fashion. She was super unique, had this Tartar / Scythian look to her that was really unique. Big, fantastic breasts, and sucked like a champ. Not very great in the sack, but she was a big time kisser and she really liked it. We traded IGs and wants to meet when I'm back, but she was a little too meh in bed for me.

Wednesday: 22 yr musician. Super cool. Didn't speak much English, but told me about how she and her brother fled Donbass when the war started. Her two brothers decided to stay, and split the family apart and they don't talk anymore since they view her as a "traitor". Absolutely mind blowing. But she was cool as fuck, we would listen to rock music and shag, she would massage me, and then proceed to give me a BBBJ. She simply loved to suck, and suck it long, she was just beautiful in body and everything. No rush, talked, bullshitted around. She stayed for three hours, sex 3 x BBBJCIM 2 x, she had a super petite body and beautiful skin and hair. Again, not a clock watcher, super chill, and we had a good time.

Thursday: 20 yr old student / photographer. The cream of the crop. She didn't have much listed on her profile at all, like sponsorship etc, but we talked for days before. She was a simply a cut above the rest. Extremely fluent in English, and open minded about the world and had a desire to explore. She dressed regally, with a nice lace one piece and started things slow. She had an amazing body, with full, perky breasts. We really hit it off. Talked about fine art photography, mutual appreciation of rock music that we proceeded to fuck to, and even Russian literature and things like opera and ballet, and classical music. She stayed for hours, and we would fuck, then talk, then fuck, then talk, and then fuck and we fell asleep. She definitely left an impression.

Friday: 19 year old student, lithe and super chill. But, I had a shit day at work and couldn't stop thinking about how awesome Thursday was, and how much I wanted to see her again.

And that's that.

PROTIP: Have good photos on Mamba, and don't send stupid messages like "hey bb you cute want sum fuk". 98% of the dudes on mamba look like fucking idiots. Sunglasses, face only shots, etc. Take some nice photos in black and white, side profiles, you doing something / fun and cool, pay a photographer, whatever. Girls these days are all into IG and snapchat, so you got to play the game. If you still have questions, read Models by mark manson.

In the end, every single person was relaxed, friendly, not a clock watcher, and GFE+++++++++ maxxxxxx. No bait and switch, but I did play a hard game on mamba. If they gave me grief about showing newer photos or wouldn't share their viber number, I didn't meet them. Use your wits about you mates, if it smells TGTBT it probably is.

Was a good time, Will I go back? If I have to for work, yes, and maybe to see Thursday again, we had that good of a time. But I am not Slavic, don't speak Russian / Ukrainian, and really, really did not jive with Kiev. But the girls and the people there overall were very very relaxed and nice, and the women beautiful. The culture is not mine though, and I don't have a desire to learn it. If you did learn Russian / Ukrainian, you'd have an even better time. But I honestly have nothing but positive things to say about the people, in and outside of the bedroom.

Don't forget: You need to be smart about your selection process, don't take bullshit, be respectful, take good photos, dress well, and you'll have a good time.

Riina
02-10-18, 15:32
Thinking of a trip to Kyiv, my second one ever, and I am tempted by this service although the pictures are not real at least for one lady whom I contacted by WhatsApp.

http://relaxkiev.com/eng/

I suppose it is a good sign that you can actually reach the ladies via phone numbers.

Also that not every lady apparently is ready to do everything (some allow for French kissing others BBBJ), which means that this seems pretty legit.

Thanks for any feedback.When I look at a photo, the first thing I examine is the construction in the background. Most of the pictures in RelaxKiev are yankee construction. Same guide applies to Mamba. Real independent profiles generally have selfies shot in Ukraine. Assume an agency when you see too many staged photos.

Wgmm99
02-10-18, 16:20
I had success in the past with semi-pros from mamba and posted some reviews either with this account or my old account "esatikkanen."

I see now some guys saying they find student types who do not list themselves as looking for a sponsor.

Here is my question: when you see a girl looking for someone 18-50, she must be semi-pro, no?

For example:

https://www.mamba.ru/mb1752728023

I found a bunch after going through the 18-22 who speak English and some that are looking 18-35 or 18-40. They seem a little less clear to me. Perhaps they want to earn a little side cash but don't want someone really old and gross?

I'm early 40's and in pretty good shape. Look maybe late 30's. Wondering about advice on how to approach these kinds of girls without being a total ass.

Kozerog
02-10-18, 19:02
Thinking of a trip to Kyiv, my second one ever, and I am tempted by this service although the pictures are not real at least for one lady whom I contacted by WhatsApp.

http://relaxkiev.com/eng/

I suppose it is a good sign that you can actually reach the ladies via phone numbers.

Also that not every lady apparently is ready to do everything (some allow for French kissing others BBBJ), which means that this seems pretty legit.

Thanks for any feedback.Most of these phone numbers are hidden agencies using fake potos. What I advise is a Viber message like this: to several phone numbers from the site:

Hi XXX,

How are things with you? I hope you are having a very nice day.

I am XXX nationality businessman aged XXX visiting Kiev for XXX days staying at XXX street. I can pay XXX for 1 hour outcall plus XXX taxi fare. I would like to see you now, and I want these services: XXX, XXX. I want to be able to extend session by XXX hours for additional price of XXX if I am enjoying myself.

If you are independent, please send me a photo taken now with your smartphone holding a piece of paper with my Viber number written on it.

If this is an agency, please send me some recent photos of girls available now. I am only interested in girls with NO TATTOOS who speak (basic, intermediate, fluent) English or XXX (German, French etc).

Rule 1: I will meet girl outside and if she does not match photo you sent, I will send her away WITHOUT taxi money. There is no excuse for fake photos.

Rule 2: Smartphone must be turned to silent mode, so no beeping sounds during session. Also, no looking at smartphone until end of session.

Rule 3: We will count money together when girl arrives (and again after she gets out of bathroom, if applicable) but money must remain on table next to bed until after sex. If girl refuses to perform agreed services, we will call agency to discuss problem.

I look forwards to hearing from you.

XXX.

You will encounter resistance to rule regarding no taxi fare if girl doesn't match photo, but you can also just enforce this rule without mentioning it in advance.

It is incredibly rude to have smartphone beeping during sex, but some girls think nothing of that and would even reach over to check the smartphone during sex if you let them, such is their addiction to these devices. Hence the smartphone rule. You should also put your own smartphone on silent mode as a courtesy, even if you are the customer.

There will be strong resistance to rule about money remaining on table. Sometimes I insist on this rule, sometimes not. Better girls leave money on table without my even asking. (I spread out crisp 500 hrivnia notes so they can count by eye when I show money as soon as they arrive.) When I first started mongering, several times girls refused to perform certain services with me but I never demanded money back or called agency to complain. Instead, I just wrote these experiences off as learning experiences. Nowadays, I would call agency to complain. Of course, service performed unwillingly is unlikely to be good service, so it makes little difference. Your leverage with agency is stronger if you are a repeat customer. Possibly send a photo with your initial Viber message and ask agency to show this photo to girls and only send those girls who confirm they will perform all requested services with you. As should be obvious, showering thoroughly beforehand (including between buttocks) reduces problems with girls refusing to perform services.

Don't be surprised if first girl doesn't work out. As long as you are only paying $50 + taxi fare, you can afford some failed experiments,. There ARE some real jewels in the $50/ hour bargain bin. You just have to look for them. Once you find a jewel, become a repeat customer.

Comments regarding the above message of introduction would be appreciated, since I may need to go digging through the $50/ hour agencies again.

Riina
02-10-18, 23:38
It's amazing how a good looking twenty something can easily guide himself to pussy on Tinder by following simple instincts. Yet, a grown up man is so prey to self-delusion that he chooses to close his eyes and rationalize silly rules for direction.

Kozerog
02-11-18, 04:37
It's amazing how a good looking twenty something can easily guide himself to pussy on Tinder by following simple instincts. Yet, a grown up man is so prey to self-delusion that he chooses to close his eyes and rationalize silly rules for direction.Are you alluding to me and my rules? I'm stopped being a good-looking twenty something over 30 years ago. You really think if I overcome my self-delusion I can get young women to respond to me on Twitter? That's a site for ordinary relationships, no money exchanged. Mamba is a better example. Tsnexoa mentioned 1000 hrv / hour and 3000/ session. Those numbers are not far from what I get with my system ($50/ hour=1300 hrv+hiur). I had less luck with mamba than Tsnexoa. Maybe self-delusion, maybe my photos aren't glamorous, or maybe women simply don't want men who are old enough to be their grandfather. Anyway, if you see something wrong with my rules, tell me, I'm really curious.

Tsnexoa: please specify your age. That is important information to properly evaluate your trip report.

PhotoSlider
02-11-18, 08:03
It's amazing how a good looking twenty something can easily guide himself to pussy on Tinder by following simple instincts. Yet, a grown up man is so prey to self-delusion that he chooses to close his eyes and rationalize silly rules for direction.I must be somehow abnormal, because I find a certain twisted pleasure in making love to Ukrainian beauty doggie style, while she is breathing heavily in the smartphone, and her excited interrupting voice says to agency dispatcher: "Yes, I am al-rea-dy wal-king out-of-the-door. I am finishing and coming now!

Then she runs down the stairs, and I make her return, because she forgot her phone next to my entrance door, because we didn't get enough of each other.

Trying to squeeze the above in the framework of army-like regulations just because some here are paranoid. ? Good luck doing so with most of Ukrainian girls! These reminds me a Poster on Shevchenko Blvd: "Born Free".

Jymondor
02-11-18, 14:30
Have good photos on MambaThanks for the report.

I realize that good photo on Mamba will help. Do you mean a real photo, or photo stolen from the internet? What about privacy if you have a family? Anyone could see that you are looking for the young girl.

Will girls reply men's profiles without a photo?

Riina
02-11-18, 15:08
Thanks for the report.

I realize that good photo on Mamba will help. Do you mean a real photo, or photo stolen from the internet? What about privacy if you have a family? Anyone could see that you are looking for the young girl.

Will girls reply men's profiles without a photo?Not all girls are hookers on Mamba. Many are legitimately looking for relationships and can discreetly suggest if they want p4 p.

Your posts all read like a booker on Mamba whose sole goal is to get the skank to your door.

Riina
02-11-18, 17:00
Are you alluding to me and my rules? I'm stopped being a good-looking twenty something over 30 years ago. You really think if I overcome my self-delusion I can get young women to respond to me on Twitter? That's a site for ordinary relationships, no money exchanged. Mamba is a better example. Tsnexoa mentioned 1000 hrv / hour and 3000/ session. Those numbers are not far from what I get with my system ($50/ hour=1300 hrv+hiur). I had less luck with mamba than Tsnexoa. Maybe self-delusion, maybe my photos aren't glamorous, or maybe women simply don't want men who are old enough to be their grandfather. Anyway, if you see something wrong with my rules, tell me, I'm really curious.

Tsnexoa: please specify your age. That is important information to properly evaluate your trip report.Nope. I'm not alluding to you. I'm almost fifty and probably face similar age related challenges as you. My post was an indirect reply to bad direction.

And it's Tinder, not Twitter.

Jymondor
02-11-18, 19:37
Your posts all read like a booker on Mamba whose sole goal is to get the skank to your door.I am a booker, but I don't want to get the skank to my door. Actually, this forum is to help each other with the hints to avoid skanks.

Riina
02-11-18, 19:53
I am a booker, but I don't want to get the skank to my door. Actually, this forum is to help each other with the hints to avoid skanks.Great. Thanks for sharing. You shouldn't be here. The forum doesn't allow pimps.

BillV90
02-11-18, 20:02
A trip report, for those interested.

TL, DR: Great trip, all girls were great 4/5 students, very nice, no issues or bait and switch or money issues. A+++ would recommend. Not sure I will go back due to Kiev being such a maddeningly drab city. I donated 1000 UAH / HR, max 3000 UAH. All stayed for about 2-3 h min, Thursday even longer. All kissed and GFE etc etc.

I had to make my first trip to Kiev for a week for work, so I thought hey, let's fire up Mamba and see what we can get. It took some work, but I was able to get a rolodex of girls wanting to meet me, and the ones I did have time to meet were all fantastic.

Monday: 20 yr old student. Beautiful body, I told her she looked young and she showed me her ID, but wow did she not have an inch of fat anywhere on her. Petite 5 feet tall, she was simply fantastic. She was a little spitfire, we would drink champagne, fuck, and run outside in our skivvies and coats for a smoke. She was wild in general and totally relaxed and fun to be around. 3 xsex, wanted to meet her again, but we couldn't arrange it with times. She was just super laid back and cool, and super tight.

Tuesday: 20 yr Student, fashion. She was super unique, had this Tartar / Scythian look to her that was really unique. Big, fantastic breasts, and sucked like a champ. Not very great in the sack, but she was a big time kisser and she really liked it. We traded IGs and wants to meet when I'm back, but she was a little too meh in bed for me..Sounds wonderful. Was it easy or hard to negotiate for the pricing of 1000 for 1 HR? At what place did you stay on? Would you recommend it?

Jymondor
02-11-18, 20:43
Great. Thanks for sharing. You shouldn't be here. The forum doesn't allow pimps.Pimp. A man who controls prostitutes and arranges clients for them, taking part of their earnings in return.

I do not control prostitutes an do not take part of their earnings. I book them, use them, and spend my money on them. I believe you misunderstood some terms.

Guntherus
02-11-18, 21:02
What's the trouble with you guys? Why do you take a everything so personally here? It's a time for friendly advice and discussion of adult matters, not playschool behaviour. I mean, we need not be like Sunday school kids, but your writings must have some value for others. Peace to all.

PhotoSlider
02-11-18, 23:22
What's the trouble with you guys? Why do you take a everything so personally here? It's a time for friendly advice and discussion of adult matters, not playschool behaviour. I mean, we need not be like Sunday school kids, but your writings must have some value for others. Peace to all.Indeed, we are going in circles, and those circles at times form a downward spiral. Whose dick is thicker and longer.

To simplify. There are two radical points of view on the subject matter at hand here:

1. Kiev is full of cheaters in any line of business. Beware at every step, turn and corner, protect your wallet, do not believe anybody. All the decent girls left the country for greener pastures.

This opinion is supposedly shared to help others not to fall into any traps.

IMHO, some of us succeed or suffer in Kiev more than others for certain reasons, and the latter ones paint too grim of a picture, without admitting their own miscalculations. It is easier to place the blame elsewhere, thus resigning to mediocrity.

2. Kiev is a top destination (top 5, top 10). Money helps to a certain degree. Time invested in preparation helps up to a point. Your own positive attitude and sufficiently high IQ are critical. Some call it "having a game". Kiev is still a lottery. With realistic expectations and cards played right one can have amazingly incomparable time.

IMHO, age difference plays to our benefit. You wouldn't believe how many times Kiev girls confided in me their displeasure with younger boys, sincerely saying that their peers male students, etc. Are useless, annoying and irritating. Not only because of lacking money, but simply not interesting in many ways. Certainly there is a higher attraction to more fit, better dressed, well versed gentleman as compared to obese untidy person of any gender and age.

There is another well known phenomenon. Many ladies didn't have a decent father figure in their lives, and there is a strong subconscious affection for middle aged men, that crosses over into sex appeal and doesn't interfere with it, - on the contrary, - it helps to build a stronger relationship, if there's a mutual desire to do so.

I visited Kiev more than 10 times. Would go there now in a heartbeat.

Had a discussion with 2 ladies few months ago. But first a story already mentioned here: I met both of them separately. Both were great, but in a different way. Asya from Nikolaev / Mykolaiv had numerous tattoos, claimed that she loved her husband, and he is waiting for her in 15 minutes, but continued to fuck in the most energetic and selfless manner.

The second one Sasha from Kiev, at first refused to kiss in the most creative way, by playfully saying: "I don't kiss. But those aren't the only lips I have. " Then after her 2nd orgasm, I had a prior obligation to attend to, and she exclaimed in the most sincere way: "You are so classy! I always get disappointed leaving people like you".

Then I met Sasha again and she was the as enthusiastic as ever. And the third occasion was when my wing-man suggested to call the agency after having a light dinner. By that time it was well over 15 girls ordered from this agency in the last 10 days, good rapport established, I didn't even have to mention my address or any requirements, only asking for 3-4 fresh completely new classy young ladies delivered, so that we can choose.

Yet I had to scold the cheaters, as the taxi door opens, and familiar friends Asya + Sasha jump out at us with wide smiles, saying: "They told your address for outcall, and we both said me me me send me please! I want to go there".

Why do I repeat this old story? Because when we poured the drinks in my kitchen, I stated to girls: "Everybody lies! Age is always lowered by at least 2 years!" Sasha pulled out her student ID, and offendedly objected: "But I am 19 years old! Look, I am nineteen!

Making both me and my wing-man well over 30 years older than her. Asya was 22. Same. We paid 100 UAH for round trip taxi upon their arrival + 1900 UAH / hour for each. Money was given to unlucky no-name redhead that was dismissed, pouted her lips and left untouched.

Asya started with DFK and complaints that agency strictly prohibits kissing.

Value and friendly advice? Forget about being old enough to be their grandfather, because I am too. Try having a great time to the best of your ability. Girls feel any sense of mistrust or insecurity, and respond accordingly. Yes, they want money before anything, yet keeping dignity in relationship helps to enjoy it to fuller extent. It is quite possible that FKK in Germany is a better fit for you, because it is regulated and managed differently, as a more transactional process.

Kiev's highest beauty is in its random unpredictability. When all of a sudden 180 cm tall 20 yo Violetta from Poltava walks into your life for 1800 UAH and 60 minutes, and you can clearly see in her eyes that she is fully aware of how great she is. And she is happy to share that gift of nature with you, if you are up to it. Talking to her about smartphone and crisp 500 UAH banknotes at this moment destroys the dream. Get it out of the way quickly and without unnecessary stress for everybody, then let the lady act for you, and sip the drink of love. Auguste Rodin was 24 years older than his famous lover Camille Claudel. She was 18 when they met. Read up. Examples are abundant.

Certainly there are differences between GIA, mamba, Tinder, IG and other channels, which has been discussed here to the point that some great contributors left the Forum. Why did they leave? Because explaining how terrible Kiev is certainly not a friendly advice, and it doesn't add any tangible value.

In the past I jokingly suggested to adopt some of my girlfriends. They laugh, refuse and continue making my life ever so rewarding.

PhotoSlider
02-12-18, 00:32
A trip report, for those interested.

TL, DR: Great trip, all girls were great 4/5 students, very nice, no issues or bait and switch or money issues. A+++ would recommend. Not sure I will go back due to Kiev being such a maddeningly drab city. I donated 1000 UAH / HR, max 3000 UAH. All stayed for about 2-3 h min, Thursday even longer. All kissed and GFE etc etc.

...snip...

In the end, every single person was relaxed, friendly, not a clock watcher, and GFE+++++++++ maxxxxxx. No bait and switch, but I did play a hard game on mamba. If they gave me grief about showing newer photos or wouldn't share their viber number, I didn't meet them. Use your wits about you mates, if it smells TGTBT it probably is.

Was a good time, Will I go back? If I have to for work, yes, and maybe to see Thursday again, we had that good of a time. But I am not Slavic, don't speak Russian / Ukrainian, and really, really did not jive with Kiev. But the girls and the people there overall were very very relaxed and nice, and the women beautiful. The culture is not mine though, and I don't have a desire to learn it. If you did learn Russian / Ukrainian, you'd have an even better time. But I honestly have nothing but positive things to say about the people, in and outside of the bedroom.Great report! Thank you so much for honesty, attention to detail and being positive, even while stating you didn't like the city itself.

One question, if you have time to answer: What would be your alternative to Kiev? Both for mongering, and separately for vacation without extra-curriculum activities.

GunningPeter
02-12-18, 02:11
Most of these phone numbers are hidden agencies using fake potos. What I advise is a Viber message like this: to several phone numbers from the site:

Hi XXX,

How are things with you? I hope you are having a very nice day.

I am XXX nationality businessman aged XXX visiting Kiev for XXX days staying at XXX street. I can pay XXX for 1 hour outcall plus XXX taxi fare. I would like to see you now, and I want these services: XXX, XXX. I want to be able to extend session by XXX hours for additional price of XXX if I am enjoying myself.

If you are independent, please send me a photo taken now with your smartphone holding a piece of paper with my Viber number written on it.

If this is an agency, please send me some recent photos of girls available now. I am only interested in girls with NO TATTOOS who speak (basic, intermediate, fluent) English or XXX (German, French etc).

Rule 1: I will meet girl outside and if she does not match photo you sent, I will send her away WITHOUT taxi money. There is no excuse for fake photos.

Rule 2: Smartphone must be turned to silent mode, so no beeping sounds during session. Also, no looking at smartphone until end of session.Thanks very much!

Volpone
02-12-18, 08:51
A trip report, for those interested.

TL, DR: Great trip, all girls were great 4/5 students, very nice, no issues or bait and switch or money issues. A+++ would recommend. Not sure I will go back due to Kiev being such a maddeningly drab city. I donated 1000 UAH / HR, max 3000 UAH. All stayed for about 2-3 h min, Thursday even longer. All kissed and GFE etc etc.
It seems Kiev has changed a lot in 6 months. When I was there 6 months ago, nearly no one agree for 1000 UAH for 1 hour. Only one agreed and she was a 5. Well I didn't take her, I don't go to Kiev to fuck a 5.

3000 UAH for 2-3 hours, yes that's realistic, but not every girls agree with that. Some just ask 2000-3000 for 1 hour.

If it's true, it seems that the prices are going down, at least for the hour. But I doubt it.

Misterxxx
02-12-18, 12:01
It seems Kiev has changed a lot in 6 months. When I was there 6 months ago, nearly no one agree for 1000 UAH for 1 hour. Only one agreed and she was a 5. Well I didn't take her, I don't go to Kiev to fuck a 5.
3000 UAH for 2-3 hours, yes that's realistic, but not every girls agree with that. Some just ask 2000-3000 for 1 hour.
If it's true, it seems that the prices are going down, at least for the hour. But I doubt it.The story was not realistic.

1. The guy is a newbie in Kiev. First report (and the one and only) report in this forum.

2. His attitude was snooty. No Viber = No meeting. Too much money = No meeting. 1000 UAH per hour. Not more. I wonder that any beautiful girl answered his offer. Yes. 1000 UAH per hour is not impossible. But you have to use another tactic. For example "Meeting 100 $". If the girl will stay for 2-3 hours, it's a good business. But if you offer directly 1000 UAH per hour a lot of girls expect that you say bye-bye after one hour. And they don't agree.

3. he was only searching in Mamba. Everybody knows it's not so easy anymore. He found only young girls and students. No girls with a wired background. No girl with a big problem. No girls with child (and no father who can help with money).

4. he directly found a "10" for every day of the week. No information about girls who didn't come, didn't look as nice as on their photos. Bad attitude. An experience that nearly every traveller made in Kiev. Everything was simply perfect (and cheap).

5. he gave advice about how to pimp your profile in Mamba. Most of us know: Photos are important, but it's not so easy as he told us. If you put artistical photos, Mamba will refuse them. If you put very professional photos or photos with elegant background (travelling, expensive car), girls will ask for more money. No girl in Kiev wants to meet a "rich man", because he is rich. Everybody knows what a man wants if he offers money on Mamba. No relationship. Just sex. And if the photos looking too professional the girls expect that it's not you. They expect stolen photos from the internet.

6. he tried to promote a book (e-book). Hey, this guy is so cool. Why he needs this book. ?

Kozerog
02-12-18, 16:00
The story was not realistic.

1. The guy is a newbie in Kiev. First report (and the one and only) report in this forum.

2. His attitude was snooty. No Viber = No meeting. Too much money = No meeting. 1000 UAH per hour. Not more. I wonder that any beautiful girl answered his offer. Yes. 1000 UAH per hour is not impossible. But you have to use another tactic. For example "Meeting 100 $". If the girl will stay for 2-3 hours, it's a good business. But if you offer directly 1000 UAH per hour a lot of girls expect that you say bye-bye after one hour. And they don't agree.

3. he was only searching in Mamba. Everybody knows it's not so easy anymore. He found only young girls and students. No girls with a wired background. No girl with a big problem. No girls with child (and no father who can help with money).His story is not unrealistic if he is in his 30's and good-looking. Girl can easily create dream castle of having such a guy fall in love with her, marry her, take her back to his rich country where she gets to raise children at home while he goes off to earn a big salary each day, etc. There is a shortage of men in Kiev in their 30's with enough money to be worth marrying, and most girls there, including semi-pros, have a dream of marriage and children somewhere in their minds. Even me, an old man who looks old (my body is good shape, but what can I do about my skin?) and acts old (maybe I could be more cheerful like PhotoSlider but I doubt it, can't teach an old dog new trick.), gets signs of interest by ordinary non-working girls in their 30's who desperately want to find a husband with money to start a family with, to speak nothing of single mothers in their 30's who also want a husband with money. That should tell you something right there. For girls in their 20's, on the other hand, you have to be 30's and good-looking to make them interested.

As for the book he mentioned, it's one of those dating guides, and a stupid one at that. According to Amazon, the book recommends "be honest about who you are, instead of trying to deceive, and you will be successful with women". The author of this useless advice is young and good-looking and with good social skills. If I'm honest about who I am, beautiful girls in their 20's or 19 are not going to be interested, which is why I have to pay them to compensate. Being honest would get me older women (50's and 60's), but I am no longer interested in older women. (Curiously, I was interested in women aged 40-60 when I was in my 20's, thus up to 30 years older, whereas now I want women 30 or more years younger.).

PhotoSlider is right that I am being too aggressive in my advice a few pages back and that will spoil the mood. And in fact, I wasn't so aggressive during my time in Kiev, especially not with the jewel I eventually found, nor did I need to be aggressive. She turned her smartphone off without my asking and I turned mine off, money was spread out on the table when she arrived and so we didn't have to discuss it or count it, she looked like her photos. All my aggressive rules were because of previous bad experiences. Those rules will screen the bad girls, but as PhotoSlider suggests, they may also drive off the good girls. I am going to think more about this, in case I have to go back to digging through the $50 bargain bin.

BTW my jewel was independent, not agency girl. So she gets to keep entire $50/ hour and I paid for 3 hours at a time and saw her multiple times, which is good money by Kiev standards. So incentive to behave nicely.

PhotoSlider
02-12-18, 18:50
The story was not realistic.

1. The guy is a newbie in Kiev. First report (and the one and only) report in this forum.

2. His attitude was snooty. No Viber = No meeting. Too much money = No meeting. 1000 UAH per hour. Not more. I wonder that any beautiful girl answered his offer. Yes. 1000 UAH per hour is not impossible. But you have to use another tactic. For example "Meeting 100 $". If the girl will stay for 2-3 hours, it's a good business. But if you offer directly 1000 UAH per hour a lot of girls expect that you say bye-bye after one hour. And they don't agree.

3. he was only searching in Mamba.I do not know him. Just playing a devil's advocate:

1. he must have read Kiev Forum before his first post, and used the rational part of it for mamba hunting.

I doubt he will post any more reports after overwhelmingly negative response from the Forum. Or was it disbelief caused by the envy?

2. You can not be pleased ever. Overpay means spoiling the girls! Underpay means not realistic. Believe or not, girls still do it even for free in Kiev. The most beautiful ones. With much older gentlemen. He must be younger, more confident and attractive in many ways. Hence higher success for much less money.

3. he didn't say it was easy. On the contrary, he invested time. But he didn't follow the typical rules, and had better luck. Maybe the reason for his success is because he avoided typical mistakes?

He found young girls and students because his initial screening didn't accept anything else. I am usually less picky, yet 90% of my selection process concentrates in the same demographic sector. I like them young and educated.

4. he didn't say anywhere his girls were "10". He said he liked them all. One of the girls was only 5 feet tall, making her 1 m52 cm. Is it a "10" to all of us?

5. Did anybody see his mamba profile? Assumptions, negativity and unsubstantiated dismissal. Maybe he can teach a few things about mamba.

6. It's the opposite. He doesn't need this book. He is cool because he already read it. Solid book BTW.

Going back to post by Roll Buzz:


It's a time for friendly advice and discussion of adult matters, your writings must have some value for others. Peace to all.IMO Tsnexoa provided not only a rare positive report, but also a number of good friendly suggestions.

Kozerog
02-12-18, 20:35
Here is my new proposed initial Viber / Whatsapp message, much shorter and less aggressive than the previous version:

Hi XXX (name of girl on profile where you found phone number).

How are things with you? I hope you are having a very nice day.

I saw your profile at XXX. I am XXX nationality businessman aged XXX visiting Kiev for XXX days staying at XXX street. I can pay XXX for 1 hour outcall plus XXX taxi fare. I would like to see you XXX (next few hours, this evening, tomorrow afternoon) for these services: XXX, XXX. I would like to be able to extend session to XXX hours for additional price of XXX if things go well.

If this is an agency, please send me some recent photos of girls available XXX (next few hours, this evening, tomorrow afternoon). I am only interested in girls with no tattoos who speak XXX (basic, intermediate, fluent) English or XXX (German, French etc).

I look forwards to hearing from you.

XXX (name you use).

Reason for mentioning nationality is some nationalities have good reputation, others not so good. Businessman aged 45 sounds much better than football hooligan aged 20. Visiting for several weeks means potential repeat customer. You could also include a photo of yourself in your Viber profile, if you are good-looking and not worried about privacy.

I took out warning about sending girls away if they don't match photo. In my experience, photos of agency girls never match what is on web page where you found agency, but photos did match what agency sent me via Viber. Photos of independent girls are usually from several years ago and photoshopped, but I had already assumed that so no big surprise. I'm not that picky about looks anyway. Most girls 40 years younger than me look pretty now that I am old. Attitude is more important than looks.

I also removed rule about money on table. This is to prevent girls from running off without providing any service, which is a big problem in some places, but probably not a problem with agency girls in Kiev. Being drugged and robbed by independents is what you have to worry about in Kiev. My feeling is that money on table until end of session gives psychological leverage to make girl behave, which is why I prefer it. Also, it is low class to pocket money before services rendered, like how you have to pay in advance at McDonalds before you get your food, versus paying afterwards at a nice restaurant. Leaving counted money on table until end of session is compromise between paying before and paying after. Better independent girls put their purse next to money on table and left money alone until end of session without my asking. However, agency girls are instructed to count and put money into their purse immediately. Sometimes I insisted on money remaining on table and agency agreed after girl called them to discuss, sometimes I didn't bother insisting. I must admit, it didn't give a good impression for me to shout at dispatcher in a mix of English and bad Russian while girl stood there shaking her head.

Not all girls misbehaved, just some, and some of those that initially misbehaved I was able to seduce into behaving nicely later. As PhotoSlider notes, Kiev is like a lottery, but a lottery with odds strongly in your favor if you have time and money. You have to take bad luck with good luck. I am very happy with jewel I eventually found, and it is good I didn't foolishly drive her away with those aggressive rules I suggested previously. She mentioned that she could usually tell exactly what sort of man she was dealing with by his initial Viber message and that she refused lots of men because they were rude.

PhotoSlider
02-12-18, 20:51
Girl can easily create dream castle of having such a guy fall in love with her, marry her, take her back to his rich country where she gets to raise children at home while he goes off to earn a big salary each day, etc.You nailed it, man! If Tsenxoa positioned it right, making the girl feel that this is a romantic date, instead of P4P, then she had great time and made 1000 or even 3000 UAH, which is wonderful for a young student girl no matter what. Plus promise of a dream in the future, pursuit of happiness).


There is a shortage of men in Kiev in their 30's with enough money to be worth marrying, and most girls there, including semi-pros, have a dream of marriage and children somewhere in their minds.Good one yet again. There is a shortage of men in Kiev regardless of age. And marrying or simply finding a good sponsor provider is the ultimate goal that is omnipresent in the air.

It is unusual for a Western male of any age to feel wanted by Ukrainian females. Ladies turn their heads at the restaurant and scan your cloth, shoes, haircut and smile as you enter even when they already sit with someone. Great looking hairdresser rubs her thighs while having a nice chat with you, that ends up with her phone number in your pocket, and her coworkers and other customers around make no notice about it, because it's perfectly fine, even though you look significantly older. Doesn't matter!


Even me (maybe I could be more cheerful like PhotoSlider but I doubt it), gets signs of interest by ordinary non-working girls in their 30's. For girls in their 20's, on the other hand, you have to be 30's and good-looking to make them interested.Depends where you are. I got the phone number of a 22 years old buffet girl at the Opera easily. Yes I was nicely dressed up for the occasion with a bow tie and everything. My girlfriend made sure I didn't overdo before we left for the Opera. Importance of that has been mentioned here before.

I am more of a jeans and a T-shirt man. Which didn't matter after establishing closer relationships. I did see my girlfriends checking out how I look though before leaving for theater. They want their man looking good, to be proud of him. And asking them to help with your cuff-links and cravat and shirt buttons opens up so many options for foreplay, that would later continue in the mezzanine). Mezzanine is far better than parterre, because foreplay insensibly ends up on the bed, and then the happy couple arrives late for the overture.


PhotoSlider is right that I am being too aggressive in my advice a few pages back and that will spoil the mood. And in fact, I wasn't so aggressive during my time in Kiev, especially not with the jewel I eventually found, nor did I need to be aggressive. She turned her smartphone off without my asking and I turned mine off, money was spread out on the table when she arrived and so we didn't have to discuss it or count it, she looked like her photos. All my aggressive rules were because of previous bad experiences. Those rules will screen the bad girls, but as PhotoSlider suggests, they may also drive off the good girls. I am going to think more about this, in case I have to go back to digging through the $50 bargain bin..Now you are talking!) Agree 200%.

Wgmm99
02-12-18, 22:40
I had some back and forth with this one:

https://www.mamba.ru/mb1755339692

She seemed to pass the sniff test. I have had some luck with mamba in the past and believe it or not, after the back and forth, and based on a few gems I found over the years, she seemed like she could be real.

She was not.

She looked like the girl in the photos if the girl in the photos was 4-5 years older (which would be fine). Sent her packing. Gave her 100 grivna for taxi to avoid scandal.

I did some research on the number and it didn't seem like agency but if it might be and we are allowed to post numbers, her number is 097XXXX62.

Heads up boys!

Deer1234
02-13-18, 00:03
Are there any elevation in the security level in KBP airport, after the fall of Antonov?

I will visit Kiev next week.

I visited three times in a row in a month last year, which alerted the immigration and the custom.

I had to spend a long time to explain that I came to Kiev for sex, which was not a pleasant hour.

PhotoSlider
02-13-18, 02:02
Are there any elevation in the security level in KBP airport, after the fall of Antonov?That aircraft fell or rather fell apart in the air in a different country few hundred kilometers to the North-East from KBP. There are more pressing matters in Ukraine than that Antonov to keep security as elevated as it is. I would be more concerned with corrupt Ukrainian customs.


I will visit Kiev next week.

I visited three times in a row in a month last year, which alerted the immigration and the custom.

I had to spend a long time to explain that I came to Kiev for sex, which was not a pleasant hour.Is it a typo or did you say to passport control / immigration that you came to the great country of Ukraine to have sex?

PhotoSlider
02-13-18, 02:56
Here is my new proposed initial Viber / Whatsapp message, much shorter and less aggressive than the previous version.I would make it even shorter without giving out so much information: address, price range, age, nationality. You overthink, over-engineer it. Too many assumptions. Keep it simple. Agency doesn't care. Say downtown. They send you few girls, and if there are no complaints, they keep doing their routine over and over, as long as you pay, and don't abuse. After you had 3 or more in a short time interval, they start recognizing you.

My personal record was 5 agency girls delivered separately within 24 hour span interleaved with 8+ hours of cute 7 grade MILF. She was quite versatile, well beyond the usual "half and half", didn't negotiate, called me "husband", left drunk with 2500 UAH total, that I stuck in her pocket on the way out. That was our second date. She didn't return my Viber messages after that. I thought I didn't give her enough money, and was told by her roommate that she was ashamed of her own behavior, that is of what she allowed me to do with her. Through that roommate (a good friend of mine, known to some on this Forum) MILF will get a nice surprise for this Valentine's day. We-Vibe Sync, that I can control remotely across the Internet from my smartphone, and intend to use later in person when we meet. I know for a fact she'll be fascinated.

But I digress as usual without helping anybody.

Not sure how sending your acceptable price range affects your expenses. Agency may send the very same girls with individual markup created just for you. Do the reverse check on the pix they send you, if you have time. Ask if there's anything online, or do tineye + google image search on laptop. Another agency tried to send me 1300 UAH girl for 1800.

If one of your repeat girls is from the agency ask her what the rules are. The confident ones explained to me how it works.

DramaFree11
02-13-18, 04:17
Sorry, I have to disagree agian, there is not a shortage of men in Kiev, just not true, there are many nice guys there, another myth. Also, there is plenty of them running around with money, and girls will choose a Ukraine or Russian guy over a foreign guy 90% of the time. You guys believe everything these girl say, and most of the time it is just a flat out lies. They are telling you what you want to here.


You nailed it, man! If Tsenxoa positioned it right, making the girl feel that this is a romantic date, instead of P4P, then she had great time and made 1000 or even 3000 UAH, which is wonderful for a young student girl no matter what. Plus promise of a dream in the future, pursuit of happiness).

Good one yet again. There is a shortage of men in Kiev regardless of age. And marrying or simply finding a good sponsor provider is the ultimate goal that is omnipresent in the air.

It is unusual for a Western male of any age to feel wanted by Ukrainian females. Ladies turn their heads at the restaurant and scan your cloth, shoes, haircut and smile as you enter even when they already sit with someone. Great looking hairdresser rubs her thighs while having a nice chat with you, that ends up with her phone number in your pocket, and her coworkers and other customers around make no notice about it, because it's perfectly fine, even though you look significantly older. Doesn't matter!.

Misterxxx
02-13-18, 11:23
Are there any elevation in the security level in KBP airport, after the fall of Antonov?
I will visit Kiev next week.
I visited three times in a row in a month last year, which alerted the immigration and the custom.
I had to spend a long time to explain that I came to Kiev for sex, which was not a pleasant hour.Expensive clothes, expensive bag, expensive watch. ? Some people at customs waiting for a bribe. This is well known.

Try to look normal to avoid spending time, money and nerves for this kind of treatment.

Are you from Turkey or Arabian. ? It is also well known that the immigration staff likes to make jokes with this ethnic group. Sometimes.

I counted my incoming-stamps from Borispol, Zhulyany and Danilo Halytsky airport. 24 in 2017. No stupid questions. Maximum I had to explain how long I would like to stay and were I would like to go. Stamp after one minute. Maximum.

Why do you expect a problem after the Antonov crash in Moscow. ? It wasn't a bomb. The plane was made in the Ukraine. But the airline even didn't contact Antonov for the last major inspection. This inspection was held by some stuff of Motor Sich. In Russia. Not in the Ukraine. And I'm sure it was illegal.

Kozerog
02-13-18, 19:11
I would make it even shorter without giving out so much information: address, price range, age, nationality. You overthink, over-engineer it. Too many assumptions. Keep it simple. Agency doesn't care. Say downtown. They send you few girls, and if there are no complaints, they keep doing their routine over and over, as long as you pay, and don't abuse. After you had 3 or more in a short time interval, they start recognizing you.

My personal record was 5 agency girls delivered separately within 24 hour span interleaved with 8+ hours of cute 7 grade MILF. She was quite versatile, well beyond the usual "half and half", didn't negotiate, called me "husband", left drunk with 2500 UAH total, that I stuck in her pocket on the way out. That was our second date. She didn't return my Viber messages after that. I thought I didn't give her enough money, and was told by her roommate that she was ashamed of her own behavior, that is of what she allowed me to do with her. Through that roommate (a good friend of mine, known to some on this Forum) MILF will get a nice surprise for this Valentine's day.Of course the agency doesn't care about nationality, etc, but some of the girls I was writing to really were independents, not hidden agencies, and some of that information does matter to them. It's not always possible to tell who is agency, who is independent, so you need to be prepared for an independent. If an independent really doesn't like certain nationalities or older men in general or my face in particular, I'd rather find out sooner than later.

What I eventually figured out was each hidden agency has multiple profiles, with different phone number and girl and price on each profile, but of course girl you eventually get has nothing to do with the profile. So what I did was only respond to profiles with like $50/ hour price, and that's why I quote the price in the my initial Viber message. But I probably should use simpler wording ("saw your profile at XXX, stating $XXX / hour for XXX, XXX") and I did actually use simpler wording when I was in Kiev. That message I proposed incorporates all my lessons learned, which is why is sounds over-engineered.

I used all kinds of resources (ukrgo, kievlady, backpage) to find phone numbers and I was very disorganized. Partly because I only had a smartphone to keep track of things, partly because I had a lot going on in my life. I finally deleted everything but the phone number of that quality independent because I was so disgusted with those hidden agencies. When I return to Kiev, I'm going to see the independent again if she is still in business, but also hit up some of those hidden agencies again for variety.

I also have a social activity (involving music performance) that I participate in while in Kiev that puts me in contact with young women, and lots of them send hints that they are interested in me, but I'm a little nervous about that. First, I feel like a proverbial dirty old man sex tourist trying to arrange a date with a civilian girl 40 years younger. Second, assuming there ever was a date, I'd feel even more embarrassed bringing up subject of sex for money, even in a roundabout way ("you know it's normal for older men to give gifts to girls they go with, otherwise people would think the man a cheapskate and the girl a fool if he didn't give anything, but of course I don't want to offend anyone by such gifts. " Third, if things don't work out, I've crapped where I eat. Even if things do work out, there might be gossip in the group unless I am careful never to be seen in public with the girl. Fourth, my Russian wasn't at B2 level (fully conversational) until recently. Fifth, I was busy with the agency and independent professionals so really didn't have mental energy for dealing with semi-pros as well during previous visits. I'm reading this ISG forum now for hints on how to deal with situations like this. There are some PUA forums with (mostly idiotic) advice on how to "game" younger Ukrainian women when you're a younger man yourself, but not many sites giving advice for older men who want to be sponsors. I got banned from one of those PUA forums because I mentioned sponsoring.

Kozerog
02-13-18, 20:08
Sorry, I have to disagree agian, there is not a shortage of men in Kiev, just not true, there are many nice guys there, another myth. Also, there is plenty of them running around with money, and girls will choose a Ukraine or Russian guy over a foreign guy 90% of the time. You guys believe everything these girl say, and most of the time it is just a flat out lies. They are telling you what you want to here.No one who has spend time in Kiev away from the sex tourist bubble, which is dominated by foreign men and pro women, would deny that there are plenty of young men in Kiev. The question is, are there more or even the same number of such men with money than there are good-looking women?

Women everywhere are drawn to big cities, for many reasons, including to hopefully find a good husband. Pretty young women can almost always find white or pink-collar jobs in big cities (retail, secretarial, medical industry, etc) because they are preferred to older women for such jobs. Salaries are very low, but then there is the potential for working as a semi-pro (hence the huge supply of semi-pros in Kiev). Whereas there is no special demand for young men in big cities (obviously, there are jobs like construction or garbage man, but those jobs don't really favor young versus older men) and young men cannot fall back on trading sex for money. The big demand for young men is jobs like mining, logging, agriculture, long-haul trucking, etc. So there is a tendency for young men to move to rural areas and young women to move to big cities. You also have lots of young Ukrainian men who left Ukraine to work in Russian mining and other rural industries, but there is less reason for young Ukrainian women to move to Moscow, since there are adequate native Russian young women for pink-collar jobs there.

Then, when women are poor, like most young women in Ukraine, they strongly prefer a man with money. People in rich countries forget this. Rich western European women earn enough to support themselves, the man just needs to supply his handsome young body (plus charm, though as an old curmudgeon, I have difficulty understanding charm). But things are different in Kiev. When a girl is living with 3 other girls in a shared apartment, she is not interesting in broke young men living with 3 other young men in a shared apartment, no matter how handsome. So those men disappear from the dating pool as far as she is concerned, and especially from the marriage pool. That's why it is true to say there is a surplus of young women in Kiev.

In fact, even with the extremely lop-sided ratios of men to women in China, because of sex-selective abortion plus the fact that 105 boys are naturally born for every 100 girls, young women in big cities in China still complain of a shortage of "good men", meaning men with money. Reason is same as in Ukraine: young women flock to big cities, men do dirty work in rural mines and factories. Same complaint in Frankfurt, Paris, New York City. Plus there are the technological and economic factors that have hurt men's employment prospects much more than women's. In particular, automation in steel mills and other traditionally male jobs.

PhotoSlider
02-13-18, 22:55
Expensive clothes, expensive bag, expensive watch. ? Some people at customs waiting for a bribe. This is well known.I fit customs profile to get detained for attempted milking. Dressed down. Casio plastic watch. Always go through the green corridor. Despite all that 3-4 times they stopped me with already half-erected penis contemplating how many girls I'll fuck tonight. It wasn't quite the cavity search, but they made me count all the money I brought, politely threatened to confiscate if I do not show everything and they find it.

Believe the limit is $10 K, and anything over $1 K should be declared. Please correct if I'm wrong.

Customs asked how many iPhones in the luggage. I carry 3: business, personal and mongerphone.

One of the older officers literally said: "You are a grown up person and must understand. " Obvious Zimbabwe style request for a bribe. I sometimes give an equivalent of what I would consider a standard legitimate fee under similar circumstances in a more civilized environment. No more than 10-20 bucks, and do not sweat it. For example some types of Canadian visas or work permits issued on the border are $100-150. So far I enter Ukraine for free.

I behave relaxed and confident, showing that indeed there is nothing to gain from me even if they delay my unannounced yet inevitable festivities with better looking female citizens of Ukraine.

PhotoSlider
02-14-18, 00:06
Sorry, I have to disagree again, there is not a shortage of men in Kiev, just not true, there are many nice guys there, another myth. Also, there is plenty of them running around with money, and girls will choose a Ukrainian or Russian guy over a foreign guy 90% of the time. You guys believe everything these girls say, and most of the time it is just a flat out lies. They are telling you what you want to hear.NP. Agree to disagree. No need to believe me and even read any further.

For the sake of other Forum members and for what it's worth:

Many know about skewed sex ratio in China due to preference of having baby-boys over baby-girls. Mother nature gives 1.06 boys per 1 girl at birth to have good ratio when they reach reproductive age, because boys take more risks and girls are more stable an conservative. For multiple reasons Chinese abort more girls.

The official 2016 stats for China:

Sex ratio: at birth: 1.15 male (s)/ female.

0-14 years: 1.17 male (s)/ female.

15-24 years: 1.14 male (s)/ female.

25-54 years: 1.04 male (s)/ female.

55-64 years: 1.02 male (s)/ female.

65 years and over: 0.92 male (s)/ female.

Total population: 1.06 male (s)/ female (2016 est.).

That was 1. 379 billion people and 2.91% difference. Meaning there are 40 million more girls than boys in China. Within 18-27 yo age range it is even more prominent. In reality it means Chinese girls are extremely picky and aggressive. A well known phenomenon around the globe.

I do not know how migration from villages into cities and from China to the outside world affects this. But in the last 15 years or so numerous Chinese males bitterly complained to me personally about their miserable life.

Now forget Chinese, and review stats for Ukraine:

At birth: 1.06 male (s)/ female.

0-14 years: 1.06 male (s)/ female.

15-24 years: 1.05 male (s)/ female.

25-54 years: 0.96 male (s)/ female.

55-64 years: 0.75 male (s)/ female.

65 years and over: 0.5 male (s)/ female.

Total population: 0.86 male (s)/ female (2016 est.).

One may say there are more young males 15-24 yo. Then they get killed in the war, or do drugs, drink too much, etc. And at 25-54 yo and especially 55-64 yo the age for some of us mongers regardless of country of residence females outnumber males significantly. The target male audience for my female objects of desire is older than 24 yo. Girls themselves admit they want wealthier men. Take a look around while downtown in Kiev. How many couples of an equal age do you see?

Yes, there are men with money in Kiev, but all the good ones are taken. My well-to-do friends are either married, or have harem or both. Shortage of good men in Kiev is even more aggravated than shortage of men in general. Therefore statistically I am in luck. And I observe it empirically.

40 million disparity in China is roughly the population of the whole Ukraine. But I do not need 40 million girls. I need 20-30 of them per single visit. Maybe few hundred to stroll around to make for a nice scenery. 20-30 females in close vicinity actively hunting for decent males would do. I need one or two for a fine evening followed by a tender night.

Add to the above a well known fact that village girls and young ladies from the towns all over Ukraine migrate to Kiev more readily than boys to pursue a better life, and those girls become BBBJ office workers and DFK administrative assistants, they study at dozens Kiev Universities and colleges. And they learn about mamba, Tinder, Instagram, etc from their older friends, sisters and cousins. Take a look at the typical student group photo or YouTube video. 12-17 girls and 5-7 boys is the norm.

Did visa free mean that more girls left Ukraine? To be confirmed. Even before Visa free to EU has been introduced last summer both girls and boys and young men and women searched and traveled for jobs in Italy and Poland, for opportunities all over the Middle East. I do not have validated evidence of visa-free affecting the ratio. My word is as good as yours.

Here is another reference showing the numbers and plausible explanation behind the stats:

http://blogs.elenasmodels.com/en/why-women-outnumber-men-in-russia-and-ukraine/

Girls can lie all they want as long as I get laid with good ones at the sufficiently frequent rate. I tried it all. Ukrainian, Russian, Brazilian, Dutch. Girls pretend they do not want sex tourists. But above anything they want money, good sex and signs of affection directed towards them in private and in public from a good looking man, who makes them feel special.

Stevie69
02-14-18, 00:40
Yes. I figure that is only 14,000 UAH per month, AND it is only seasonal work. Secretaries, assistants, check-out girls do not get tips. Nevertheless, the point remains. Even 1000 UAH is more than one days's work. 2000 UAH ought to be plenty for nearly all situations. Remember that the price of sex is has been documented across the world as (1) the price of a hotel room, (2) the price of 3 dates, (3) 10 times the price of a haircut.

For as little as 500 GBP you can have sex with a pron star. Yes, there is a site! Sure most are in the 1000 USD to 2000 range, but this is in the USA and the UK. While we are int he subject of films, newbies in the industry get as little as 500 USD per scene.

So, all I am saying is that int he Ukraine, anything over 2000 UAH is a little ridiculous.


The young brother of my good friend is selling "lindwein" in the streets of Lviv. No "A" location on the Christmas market, more be or see, but in the center. It's not his own business, he is not stealing any money. But: he has 500 UAH per day "tips" and 200 UAH wage. That's 700 UAH per day /25 days in a month. 600 Dollars per month during the winter. It's a very, very simple job. The conclusion: Don't trust the statistics.

Riina
02-14-18, 01:30
There are some PUA forums with (mostly idiotic) advice on how to "game" younger Ukrainian women when you're a younger man yourself, but not many sites giving advice for older men who want to be sponsors. I got banned from one of those PUA forums because I mentioned sponsoring.Start small with a girl you see regularly. Anybody from a cashier, MP girl, to a semi pro. Offer support and make it known you are looking for a relationship (a favorite word of Ukrainian girls). It doesn't have to be for sex. Forget game, focus on repeat contact. Most foreigners will never experience sponsorship in Ukraine because they are not around enough.

Kozerog
02-14-18, 02:12
That was 1. 379 billion people and 2.91% difference. Meaning there are 40 million more girls than boys in China. Within 18-27 yo age range it is even more prominent. In reality it means Chinese girls are extremely picky and aggressive. A well known phenomenon around the globe.You must not have carefully edited, Photoslider. There are vastly more young men (18-25) than women that age group in China, not the opposite. Otherwise your conclusions are correct, with same argument as me. Despite the surplus of young men in China, girls on big cities there still can't find "acceptable" young men to marry, because there is stronger tendency for girls than young men to move to cities and because male incomes are very lop-sided. A few men with big incomes, most men with low incomes, and the girls only want the men with big incomes. Same story in Ukraine.

One other thing. My jewel explained to me there is a tendency for wealthy men in Ukraine to marry ordinary-looking but healthy and trustworthy women and keep beautiful women as mistresses (and then trade for younger mistress every few years). "Beauties for having fun with, ordinary women to marry" was her quote. Very interesting and confirms what I saw salsa dancing. Namely, beautiful young women in their mid-twenties with no ring on their finger and no steady boyfriend, but ordinary women in relationship with decent looking guy. My landlady was ordinary looking but married to a good-looking young guy with computer job and so probably well paid. I don't think this is sign of lack of confidence in young men. I think they simply have the sense to marry a woman they can control rather than one they can't. This doesn't necessarily help us foreign mongers, since the beauties taken as mistresses are not available to us. Lucky for me, no one has snapped up my jewel yet. Also, I think she realizes being one man's mistress, and thus completely under his control, is worse than having lots of men giving her money, and so retaining her independence.

Riina
02-14-18, 02:13
Sorry, I have to disagree agian, there is not a shortage of men in Kiev, just not true, there are many nice guys there, another myth. Also, there is plenty of them running around with money, and girls will choose a Ukraine or Russian guy over a foreign guy 90% of the time. You guys believe everything these girl say, and most of the time it is just a flat out lies. They are telling you what you want to here.The beautiful girls have options in Ukraine, but not so much for the GND's. Lucky for me I'm not so picky.

Kozerog
02-14-18, 02:31
So, all I am saying is that int he Ukraine, anything over 2000 UAH is a little ridiculous.You've made some great posts here Steve69, so I don't want to sound too harsh, but you really need to clarify what you mean. 2000 uah per hour, or per session lasting 3 hours, or per what what exactly? Also, is this a one time meet by a foreigner who doesn't speak Russian, or a long-term arrangement. Also age of girl and other factors. There are native Ukrainian guys who spend 2000 uah per month on their ordinary looking single mother girlfriend, but that situation won't be common for ISG readers.

Kozerog
02-14-18, 02:51
Be very careful offering bribes to police and other officials. You could easily run into situation where the police are being investigated and under pressure arrest a foreign scapegoat to blame for the corruption problem in Ukraine. You don't want to be that scapegoat. Get a trustworthy local lawyer if you feel the need to bribe officials and take his advice on what to do and how to do it.

Deer1234
02-14-18, 06:49
Is it a typo or did you say to passport control / immigration that you came to the great country of Ukraine to have sex?Yes. I am not good at lying. The officers just shrugged.

Deer1234
02-14-18, 06:56
But the airline even didn't contact Antonov for the last major inspection. This inspection was held by some stuff of Motor Sich. In Russia. Not in the Ukraine. And I'm sure it was illegal.Thank you. Aircrafts fall from now and then in Russia, or former USSR, though Russian weapons are highly reputed for their toughness, as in Kalasinikov.

I always use western airliners, such as Air France, Lufthansa or British Air.

Jojosun
02-14-18, 12:40
Are there any elevation in the security level in KBP airport, after the fall of Antonov?

I will visit Kiev next week.

I visited three times in a row in a month last year, which alerted the immigration and the custom.

I had to spend a long time to explain that I came to Kiev for sex, which was not a pleasant hour." Glamorous airport guards who look like they've just walked off a fashion show runway."

"Football fans will actually WANT to be pulled over at the airport and given a thorough pat down."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2110546/Meet-Ukraine-border-guards-look-like-theyve-just-come-catwalk-runway.html#ixzz57587 lXuF.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2110546/Meet-Ukraine-border-guards-look-like-theyve-just-come-catwalk-runway.html#ixzz5757 tPnm7.

Jojosun
02-14-18, 12:54
Are there any elevation in the security level in KBP airport, after the fall of Antonov?

I will visit Kiev next week.

I visited three times in a row in a month last year, which alerted the immigration and the custom.

I had to spend a long time to explain that I came to Kiev for sex, which was not a pleasant hour.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pCwOOpTwBU

Nothing to do with Antonov. LOL.

Riina
02-14-18, 15:08
She seemed to pass the sniff test. I have had some luck with mamba in the past and believe it or not, after the back and forth, and based on a few gems I found over the years, she seemed like she could be real.

She was not.
The profile is online too much.

Riina
02-14-18, 15:17
Believe the limit is $10 K, and anything over $1 K should be declared. Please correct if I'm wrong.
You can bring as much cash into Ukraine as you want. If it's under 10 K, you don't have to declare. If it's over, you must declare and you better have receipts and proof the funds came from a legitimate source.

After passport control, walk straight to the green line without any eye contact. And look miserable just like a local.

Riina
02-14-18, 15:22
But you have to use another tactic. For example "Meeting 100 $". If the girl will stay for 2-3 hours, it's a good business. But if you offer directly 1000 UAH per hour a lot of girls expect that you say bye-bye after one hour. And they don't agree.
Thanks for the tip. I always used $100/ HR as my standard offer, but now I'll try to get multiple hours for my Benjamin. Your civil and constructive criticism of a post is well appreciated.

PhotoSlider
02-14-18, 20:53
I always used $100/ HR as my standard offer, but now I'll try to get multiple hours for my Benjamin. Your civil and constructive criticism of a post is well appreciated.$100/ HR has been requested from me as a norm in September-December 2016 by the agency that I admittedly and foolishly spoiled too much. Last call girl urgently delivered to quench thirst in the wee hours of December 31 before the departure to KBP was noticeably overweight, had body odor even after I asked her to shower, and raised doubts about the age of 18 yo declared by the agency. Maybe she was, didn't check her ID. She asked if I want to kiss. As Rolling Stones said back in 1969 you can't always get what you want. But if you try sometime you find you get what you need).

A year later billing rates came more in line with what Stevie69 explained: 1700-2000 UAH / hour and less. I declined couple times $190 and $100/ HR offers from the agency, actually gaining better reputation with them.

I am also not very picky with girls appearances, but even with relatively modest demands, quality seemed to improved noticeably in the fall of 2017. Not sure why. I doubt that's because our complaints on the Forum resulted in less mongers traveling to Kiev and shifting it more towards buyer's market. Maybe hardened pros left for visa-free Prague and Berlin replaced by the greater than usual talent influx from the outer regions into Kiev due to ongoing economy distress. Girls mentioned they were from Chernigov, Poltava, Nikolaev, Kharkiv, Odessa, Kramatorsk, Kamenec-Podolsky, Vinnica and many other locations.

PhotoSlider
02-14-18, 21:01
Yes. I am not good at lying. The officers just shrugged.Not sure if it's brave or assumed anyway. Guess they heard it all. In those immigration forms they give on the airplane I state: "Pleasure".

PhotoSlider
02-14-18, 21:11
You can bring as much cash into Ukraine as you want. If it's under 10 K, you don't have to declare. If it's over, you must declare and you better have receipts and proof the funds came from a legitimate source.Precisely. Over 10 K Euro should be declared in writing and supported by documents showing that the money was withdrawn from an account in an accredited bank or similar financial institution.

I wouldn't attract undue attention by bringing more than 10 K. It is plenty for 2-3 weeks anyway. I also used local ATMs in Kiev with regular big city precautions against skimming. Didn't have problems paying by Visa credit card all over the place. Mine doesn't have surcharge for foreign transactions.


After passport control, walk straight to the green line without any eye contact. And look miserable just like a local.Very good advice. Do not smile. Take off frequent flyer tags from your luggage.

Not sure if speaking English to officers helps to prevent scavenging.

PhotoSlider
02-14-18, 21:24
Be very careful offering bribes to police and other officials. You could easily run into situation where the police are being investigated and under pressure arrest a foreign scapegoat to blame for the corruption problem in Ukraine. You don't want to be that scapegoat. Get a trustworthy local lawyer if you feel the need to bribe officials and take his advice on what to do and how to do it.Thoughtful advice.

I never position my offer as an outright bribe. If ambiguous conversation starts leaning towards that sort of compensation, I ask: "What is the standard fee for expediting documents processing?

If you never gave a bribe in Eastern Europe or anywhere similar, - perhaps do not try it in Ukraine first. Some of the government officials provoke, and then use it as the reason to extort much more. I am not certain if there are truly dedicated vigilantes. Best course of action is to go with the flow, stay within regulations, look like the rest of the crowd, miserable, tired, but not nervous. Not making an eye contact as Riina recommended is the best.

PhotoSlider
02-14-18, 21:27
You must not have carefully edited, Photoslider. There are vastly more young men (18-25) than women that age group in China, not the opposite.My mistake. Thank you much for pointing out.

Can someone send me a PM, or explain here how can I edited already posted article. FAQ says this:

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/faq.php?faq=vbcms_editing#faq_vbcms_articles_edit.

I use FireFox, and do not see any pencil icon while hovering over article's header. Should I switch to IE or Chrome instead?

PhotoSlider
02-14-18, 22:01
You must not have carefully edited, Photoslider.Could someone explain how do I get permission to edit my articles' content in CMS per FAQ?

http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/faq.php?faq=vbcms_editing#faq_vbcms_articles_edit

I do not see any pencil icon in FireFox, Chrome or IE. PM would make me eternally obliged.

Kozerog, thanks for catching mistake in my yapping on mathematical statistics and demography of China and Ukraine. Great minds think alike). You gave much better explanation of affecting factors.

PhotoSlider
02-14-18, 22:13
You can bring as much cash into Ukraine as you want. If it's under 10 K, you don't have to declare. If it's over, you must declare and you better have receipts and proof the funds came from a legitimate source.There is also a limit upon departure: can not take out more than you brought in. I depart at 5-6 am, and never was frisked on the way out.

Exchanging UAH back to EURO or USD at the airport in the past required Ukrainian passport. Usually whatever leftovers I have are given to my regular driver, he helps with errands while I am away. 1. he is trustworthy. 2. I know I'll be back. 3. Departing from Kiev with more money than I arrived with never happened. Miraculously no matter how much I bring in and withdraw, I leave with well under 300-500 in my pocket. Sometimes only credit cards. Those female vacuum cleaners and juice squeezers are so efficient!

PhotoSlider
02-14-18, 23:04
I got the same thing Rog this past Monday.I have been honored too. Eagerly awaiting for my first adult video.

Kozerog
02-15-18, 04:45
I've been reading the forum back to Feb 2014 (page 304 as of right now) or 4 years ago and the topic of Viagra / sildenafil came up a few times but there was never a definitive discussion, which is why I am adding this report now.

Sildenafil is the generic name for Viagra. You can buy either in any pharmacy in Ukraine without prescription. Because it is so popular, sildenafil pills are usually displayed prominently in the glass case at the front of the pharmacy, next to the most popular cold remedies. There are a number of brands of generic sildenafil, some made in India, some in Poland, some in Ukraine, and all cost under $1 per 50 MG pill and about $1. 50 per 100 MG pill. Compare with about $15 per 50 MG pill for brand name Viagra.

There is absolutely no reason to distrust the quality of generic sildenafil, any more than for distrusting generic aspirin, as long as you are buying from an established pharmacy. Why would the pharmacy sell junk and ruin their reputation when the real thing costs them maybe $0. 50 wholesale? There just isn't that much of an financial incentive for selling junk. By contrast, there IS an powerful financial incentive for selling generic sildenafil (worth $0. 50 wholesale) falsely labelled as genuine Viagra manufactured by Pfizer (retail price $15), not that I am accusing any pharmacy in Ukraine of doing this. In short, I see no reason to be afraid to buy generic sildenafil versus brand name Viagra, at least from an established pharmacy in Ukraine. By contrast, buying cheap dick pills on the street in Cambodia is another story.

Obviously, as with any other pharmaceutical or food product, there will be occasional scandals at the factory, where an accident occurs and the line worker or manager decides to cover the accident up and so impurities get into the product, but you have the same issue with products made and sold in rich countries now and then, like the famous Tylenol and peanut butter poisoning scandals in the United States. Maybe some generic brands have better quality control than others, or maybe Pfizer has better quality control than generics, but who can say for sure?

I mostly use 50 MG pills, though initially I tried 100 MG, but that was too strong. If you are a cheapskate, you could chop a 100 MG pill in half with a knife to save a few pennies versus using 50 MG pills. Or maybe you want exactly 75 MG, in which case you could chop up 100 MG and take 3/4. I standardized on 50 MG pills to keep things simple. If I ever feel the need for 100 MG, I will just take two 50 MG pills.

At least in my body, statements by Pfizer and other medical authorities about how Viagra / sildenafil works are not fully accurate. First, both 50 MG and 100 MG sildenafil requires at least an hour and sometimes 2 hours to take effect, not just 30 minutes like Pfizer says. Second, effect lasts about 24 hours in me, not just 4 hours. In particular, I wake up the next morning with a raging morning erection after taking 50 MG sildenafil the previous afternoon, much stronger than normal morning erections. Experiment to see how sildenafil works in your body.

Be very careful to stay fully hydrated on sildenafil, otherwise you will get a splitting headache. Some people say alcohol and sildenafil together cause headaches. The real story is that alcohol is a diuretic (causes dehydration) and then dehydration combined with sildenafil causes headaches. (Note that dehydration is a large part of the ordinary alcohol hangover without sildenafil.) Make sure you are pissing clear the whole time you are on sildenafil, with or without alcohol or other diuretic substances (caffeine, etc).

Some people prefer taladafil (generic name for Cialis) to sildenafil because it lasts longer in the body, whereas I prefer sildenafil precisely because it leaves my body faster. Unlike mongers who come to Kiev and have sex every day or multiple times a day for a week or so, I am here for several months at a time, and only have sex every other day. By using sildenafil rather than taladafil, my body will be clear of chemicals half the time, which I think is healthy. Also, sildenafil has been studied longer and more than taladafil. From my research, sildenafil appears to have fewer long-term side-effects, though there is much dispute about this issue.

If you have health issues and especially if are taking other medications, please research contra-indications for sildenafil and / or taladafil.

Guntherus
02-15-18, 17:10
That sounds very professional, thanks to Kozerog for this input about sildenafil and taladifil. I've experienced headache as a side-effect and my response was to chop one pill and let 30 min pass between swallowing each half. I now realise that maybe it was the increase in water that saved me!

Let me add one advice: buying from the Taboo- or Intim-shops is not advices. I've had to throw those pills away.

Let me also add thanks for many valuable inputs in this forum recently, both from respected and beginning (soon to be respected) writers. Kiev is constantly changing its ways for mongers.

AntonySun1996
02-15-18, 19:01
Thanks for the previous post about pills. Just to add one more:

Konegra is another substitute of Viagra in Ukrainian. It is cheaper and works just as fine. Haven't experienced any side effects.

PhotoSlider
02-15-18, 19:20
There is absolutely no reason to distrust the quality of generic sildenafil, any more than for distrusting generic aspirin, as long as you are buying from an established pharmacy. Why would the pharmacy sell junk and ruin their reputation when the real thing costs them maybe $0. 50 wholesale? There just isn't that much of an financial incentive for selling junk. By contrast, there IS an powerful financial incentive for selling generic sildenafil (worth $0. 50 wholesale) falsely labelled as genuine Viagra manufactured by Pfizer (retail price $15), not that I am accusing any pharmacy in Ukraine of doing this. In short, I see no reason to be afraid to buy generic sildenafil versus brand name Viagra, at least from an established pharmacy in Ukraine. By contrast, buying cheap dick pills on the street in Cambodia is another story.

Obviously, as with any other pharmaceutical or food product, there will be occasional scandals at the factory, where an accident occurs and the line worker or manager decides to cover the accident up and so impurities get into the product, but you have the same issue with products made and sold in rich countries now and then, like the famous Tylenol and peanut butter poisoning scandals in the United States. Maybe some generic brands have better quality control than others, or maybe Pfizer has better quality control than generics, but who can say for sure?Kozerog rules!

Thorough essay by educated expert on important matters.

I do not use any, not because of exceptional masculinity or prowess, more of an attitude (sometimes leading to ladies leaving not fully pleased, and I'm OK with that). Have no disrespect for those who partake. Hell no! The more female and male orgasms the merrier! I stubbornly prefer to try on my own. It's a version of a research study titled "Effects of 18-22 yo females on male libido of an individual observed over multiple decades globally".

Used Ukrainian doctors in Kiev for multiple reasons with great success, and they commented on rampant problem with fake medications in Ukraine across the board. Even plastic or glass ampoules may not contain expected ingredients. Ready to use sealed syringes are more expensive to manufacture, and therefore are likely to be genuine. Kozerog's impeccable analysis of counterfeit pharma philosophy supported by his field experience with sildenafil is undoubtedly a valuable contribution to the subject.

AntonySun1996
02-15-18, 21:33
Hi gents,

How are you? I hope you are doing well.

I just filmed my first ever AV in my lifetime with my Ukrainian girl and I feel awesome. I was recording with my phone when having sex with her and she was totally fine with that except was a bit shy. The video is of much higher quality than those recorded with the facetime camera on mac.

It was a little weird at first, when I saw myself in a porn, but I really enjoy it. She is smoking hot with long legs in stockings and how her boobs wave up and down is really amazing. Masterpiece!

Holding a phone while making love is a bit physically challenging though, but I'm not sure if hiring a cameraman would be a good idea, hahaha.

Happy Spring Festival.

Anthony.

PhotoSlider
02-16-18, 01:47
I also have a social activity (involving music performance) that I participate in while in Kiev that puts me in contact with young women, and lots of them send hints that they are interested in me, but I'm a little nervous about that. First, I feel like a proverbial dirty old man sex tourist trying to arrange a date with a civilian girl 40 years younger. Second, assuming there ever was a date, I'd feel even more embarrassed bringing up subject of sex for money, even in a roundabout way ("you know it's normal for older men to give gifts to girls they go with, otherwise people would think the man a cheapskate and the girl a fool if he didn't give anything, but of course I don't want to offend anyone by such gifts. " Third, if things don't work out, I've crapped where I eat. Even if things do work out, there might be gossip in the group unless I am careful never to be seen in public with the girl. Fourth, my Russian wasn't at B2 level (fully conversational) until recently. Fifth, I was busy with the agency and independent professionals so really didn't have mental energy for dealing with semi-pros as well during previous visits. I'm reading this ISG forum now for hints on how to deal with situations like this. There are some PUA forums with (mostly idiotic) advice on how to "game" younger Ukrainian women when you're a younger man yourself, but not many sites giving advice for older men who want to be sponsorsWell, the best part is that many young women in Ukraine do not mind such a contact at all as long as it's mutually rewarding. Due to already mentioned lack of acceptable candidates for sponsorship Ukrainian society is much more tolerant. Showing up at the restaurant in Zurich or Vienna with a lady even 25-20 years younger is almost a taboo. I didn't reach 40 yo difference yet, but getting there. Some say that their grandmothers are only couple years older than me already) and strolling around with those "granddaughters" doesn't turn any heads in Kiev, except for envious wives of visiting tourists and expats, scared to death that their days are numbered.

First you need to decide for yourself how much longer do you expect to participate in this social activity? Any returns during your future visits to Ukraine? What happens if, in the unlikely event, some of your dear friends turn a cold shoulder, - would it bother you? If yes, than continue outside of this circle. You achieved sufficient success that way. If overcoming your sense of age is insurmountable, then go with those independent professionals, they might be far better for creating the illusion of happiness and joy.

I would not stop though and focus on the girl I want to have, ignoring others just like everybody else in Kiev. This is social activity, this is not your permanent job. Forget about the age difference and guilt, it never occurs to me while admiring new or old girlfriends. Be honest to yourself first of all, didn't you sign up for that salsa to find ladies? For me anywhere is hunting grounds and open season, even if I am already with one of the girls.

If the dancing partner that you fancy sends unambiguous signals, ask her out for a closer activity, something that you can do one-on-one, to feel her out. Ask her to teach you Ukrainian language. It is beautiful. Let her explain in Ukrainian how to ask the lady out for a date. Possibilities are endless. I ask to teach me different parts of female anatomy. Offer to pay for classes at some neutral territory at first. I would do it at my residence and see her reaction.

That allows to see if she means business or simply plays with you just because she is young and subconsciously wants attention from anybody of the opposite sex. It is to be decided who seduces who).

Do not offer sex for money, unless she starts this conversation. Be a gentleman, treat the lady properly, she'll pay you back and more. Let it flow, but do not let her abuse it. Beware that often even serious flirting doesn't go beyond couple expensive dinners, and at the point of no return she may decline your advances. That is why semi-pros and student girls on mamba are much easier to deal with.

What gives you more pleasure? Spending time with her outside of the bedroom, learning more about each other, winning her heart and soul slowly, or immediate access to the ultimate prize? Is it time, or proverbial bang for the buck? Do you want more girls of certain rating within each day and allocated budget or you want a relationship? I do both interchangeably. 2-3 days at a time for an interesting partner is probably my limit. And I like them waking up in my bedroom, having breakfast together, while she is in my t-shirt, morning kiss and first tender hug. I like a quickie with a new fresh peasant girl running out of my door in 1 hour just as much.

Remove your own mental barriers, sky is the limit. Think of it as a rehearsal, and if it doesn't work out then there are so many options to compensate.

Jymondor
02-16-18, 03:47
I've been reading the forum back to Feb 2014 (page 304 as of right now) or 4 years ago and the topic of Viagra / sildenafil came up a few times but there was never a definitive discussion, which is why I am adding this report now.
Thank you for touching this matter. It is worth to discuss. I prefer Cialis for a few reasons. I saw both original Cialis and Tadalafil generics in Ukrainian drag stores. Also, I heard that some medications in Ukraine could be low quality or even fake. I am not sure whether it is true or not since I always care my medications purchased in Canada. However, Cialis is over-the-counter in Ukraine. Sometimes I have no time for a doctor appointment just to get prescription. Buying Cialis in Ukraine easy.

My questions:

- Can I be confident in the quality of branded Cialis or Tadalafil generics purchased in Kiev?

- What Apteka chains should I avoid when buying Cialis or Tadalafil generics?

TheDriller
02-16-18, 16:44
Does anyone has any experience with ukrgo? Specially with the ads that states "not a brothel".

Kozerog
02-16-18, 18:35
Thank you for touching this matter. It is worth to discuss. I prefer Cialis for a few reasons. I saw both original Cialis and Tadalafil generics in Ukrainian drag stores. Also, I heard that some medications in Ukraine could be low quality or even fake. I am not sure whether it is true or not since I always care my medications purchased in Canada. However, Cialis is over-the-counter in Ukraine. Sometimes I have no time for a doctor appointment just to get prescription. Buying Cialis in Ukraine easy.

My questions:

- Can I be confident in the quality of branded Cialis or Tadalafil generics purchased in Kiev?

- What Apteka chains should I avoid when buying Cialis or Tadalafil generics?I don't know what Cialis / taladafil costs, but genuine Viagra / generic sildenafil costs are like $15 / $1 in Ukraine. $1 is also what a liter of milk costs retail. Does it make sense for a grocery store to sell watered down milk rather than the real thing so as to save 50 cents wholesale cost of that liter of milk? No, because extra profit is trivial and they lose repeat customers since watered down milk is so easy to detect. Fake sildenafil is also easy to detect for those of us who've used it extensively. Also, those generics are themselves branded (potenciale, etc) and the brand owner has an incentive to put real sildenafil and not sugar pills in the box. I would indeed be suspicious that genuine Cialis or Viagra sold in Ukraine might actually be generic in counterfeit packaging, though this is just speculating.

Counterfeiting occurs when the genuine article has a huge profit margin versus generic which looks / feels / works identical. Examples, Rolex watches, Hermes handbags, all fiat currencies. Nobody counterfeits $5 watches and handbags from the discount store or ordinary writing paper because it's not worthwhile, assuming seller has an established storefront and so depends on repeat customers. Buying a huge quantity of $5 watches, etc as a one-time transaction (going out of business auction, etc) is another story.

Kozerog
02-16-18, 20:22
First you need to decide for yourself how much longer do you expect to participate in this social activity? Any returns during your future visits to Ukraine? What happens if, in the unlikely event, some of your dear friends turn a cold shoulder, - would it bother you? If yes, than continue outside of this circle.The music and dance social activities are much too important to risk causing scandal, so I've decided to leave those girls alone. I sometimes talk to women over age 50 in the group, but I definitely don't any sort of affair with them plus they are the biggest gossipers of all.

As for your suggestions about flirting, one thing I did learn from that idiotic PUA forum is the term "congruency", meaning don't pretend to be something you are not, and that's what would happen if I tried to flirt. No one loves unsmiling old men like me, but we are respected. And unsmiling old men with money are recognized as valuable allies.

Also, I don't really want a young women loving me or hanging around me too much. My independent escort was no trouble at all. Always arrived exactly on time, always same preparatory routine including turning smartphone off, quiet and easy to get along with as a cat, always gets up to leave after exactly 3 hours. She's from a village and evidently was strictly brought up. However, I would like some variety, either from agencies or a non-pro mistress.

So now I need to think of what to pay a non-pro. My general rules for any long-term recurring business dealings: don't pay more than I comfortable with or I'll feel resentment; don't try to drive price down too far or other person will feel resentment and I'll also be angry at them for caving in too much and making me feel like a cheapskate; be systematic and logical about prices. If I pay the pro 4000 hrv for 3 hours, then either 2000 or 3000 for the non-pro sponsorette makes sense. 2000 implies over 16000/ month assuming 2 meetings / week, which is generous given that semi-skilled wages (receptionist, etc) are like 6000 hrv. Indeed, even 1000 per 3 hour meeting or 8000/ month would be plenty. But it's hard for me to justify driving a hard bargain given my income. 3000 guarantees that every normal girl will be happy with my offer, whereas top-tier girls might balk at 1000 or even 2000. Girls with 6 inch heels and mouth swelled up like a monkey's anus might scorn even 3000, but I want to be scorned by those women. If fact, driving off those types might be a reason for going with 2000 versus 3000. Have to think more about this.

Kozerog
02-16-18, 20:47
Does anyone has any experience with ukrgo? Specially with the ads that states "not a brothel".You never know what you are getting there. Photos often fake or out-of-date or heavily photoshopped or taken from an angle to hide flaws and excess weight. Few of the girls / women speak english. But some real gems in this bargain bin. Specify the link and let us look it over.

PhotoSlider
02-17-18, 00:28
The music and dance social activities are much too important to risk causing scandal, so I've decided to leave those girls alone. I sometimes talk to women over age 50 in the group, but I definitely don't any sort of affair with them plus they are the biggest gossipers of all.If their gossiping concerns you, then they will gossip feeding off of you. But you already simplified the whole thing by making a good decision to isolate and compartmentalize.


As for your suggestions about flirting, one thing I did learn from that idiotic PUA forum is the term "congruency", meaning don't pretend to be something you are not, and that's what would happen if I tried to flirt. No one loves unsmiling old men like me, but we are respected. And unsmiling old men with money are recognized as valuable allies.Sorry for not explaining my thoughts clear enough. I certainly meant her flirting with you, not vice versa. If she doesn't flirt then why bother? There's enough fish in the pond. Whose next please?


Also, I don't really want a young women loving me or hanging around me too much. My independent escort was no trouble at all. Always arrived exactly on time, always same preparatory routine including turning smartphone off, quiet and easy to get along with as a cat, always gets up to leave after exactly 3 hours. She's from a village and evidently was strictly brought up. However, I would like some variety, either from agencies or a non-pro mistress.With the latter you will learn if they are worth keeping emotions wise. Keeping it simple with the former is undeniable advantage.


So now I need to think of what to pay a non-pro. My general rules for any long-term recurring business dealings: don't pay more than I comfortable with or I'll feel resentment; don't try to drive price down too far or other person will feel resentment and I'll also be angry at them for caving in too much and making me feel like a cheapskate; be systematic and logical about prices. If I pay the pro 4000 hrv for 3 hours, then either 2000 or 3000 for the non-pro sponsorette makes sense. 2000 implies over 16000/ month assuming 2 meetings / week, which is generous given that semi-skilled wages (receptionist, etc) are like 6000 hrv. Indeed, even 1000 per 3 hour meeting or 8000/ month would be plenty. But it's hard for me to justify driving a hard bargain given my income. 3000 guarantees that every normal girl will be happy with my offer, whereas top-tier girls might balk at 1000 or even 2000. Girls with 6 inch heels and mouth swelled up like a monkey's anus might scorn even 3000, but I want to be scorned by those women. If fact, driving off those types might be a reason for going with 2000 versus 3000. Have to think more about this.I think and analyze while learning by process of trial and error. Price is not that high and practice is the best criteria for logical assumptions.

Deer1234
02-17-18, 06:11
Good word!


Not sure if it's brave or assumed anyway. Guess they heard it all. In those immigration forms they give on the airplane I state: "Pleasure".

Deer1234
02-17-18, 06:22
Hi,

Thank you very much for your information about how to get to Chernigov.

I booked an apartment in Chernigov following a suggestion from a girl.

The address is:

Prospekt Mira 35.

Chernigov,14000.

You wrote there are two towns of confusing names. How can I get to this Chernigov by public transport from Kiev city center?

I can get to Kyiv bus station.


You wrote Chernigov. It's not so far away from Kiev. About 2 hours in the bus. Not 4 hours. I did the tour 2 years ago. The bus starts near to the trainstation in the center. But there is another stop at the Lisova Metro. In the east of Kiew and at the other side of the river. That makes the trip much shorter and more comfortable.

If somebody told you about 4 hours in the bus, it must be a different city. Or you asked for the wrong bus. Anyway you must be sure that it's Chernigov und not Chernivtsi. Even booking.com made this mistake. When I tried to book my accomodation, I found some Chernivtsi Hotels in Chernigov. Guess they already fixed this problem )))

About the apartment: There are several apartment agencies that operate as a "mini-hotel". With concierge. Theatre Boutique Apart Hotel for example. But also Partner Guest House has a lot of apartments in Shota Rustavelli 44 with janitor.

PhotoSlider
02-17-18, 20:27
How can I get to this Chernigov by public transport from Kiev city center?

I can get to Kyiv bus station.Try maps. google.com.

Directions from Kyiv to "Myru Ave, 35, Chernihiv, Chernihivs'ka oblast, Ukraine, 14000".

There are trains, taking about 4 hours.

Taxi is 2 hours. Bus is 4-6 USD and under 3 hours:

https://infobus.eu/en/bus/route/from-kiev-to-chernihiv

Respected Forum veterans advise to have the girl come to you in Kiev for multiple reasons.

You may have an adventure of your life In Chernihiv with young Juliette spending few wonderful days for a total of 2000-3000 UAH. Miracles still happen, and there is a chance you'll be the happiest man alive.

Or she may not show up as previously agreed. Risk vs. Reward.

I would cancel apartment reservation and have her travel to you. Unless you are in Ukraine for a month or longer and enjoy exploring less developed corners.

Kozerog
02-17-18, 20:28
I think and analyze while learning by process of trial and error. Price is not that high and practice is the best criteria for logical assumptions.Haggling about money with a potential mistress is a very bad start to things, makes the man look stupid and / or cheap, which is why I'm trying to think everything out in advance. Probably going to go with 2000 hrv per meeting, 2 meetings per week, or over 16000 per month. That is a respectable enough offer for an LTR, but not so high as to intimidate woman or make me look like a foolish foreigner, since even well-off locals can offer that amount. 2000 is below the point at which I would start to feel uncomfortable, so leaves room for occasional bonuses or other expenses. Better to under-promise and over-deliver than the opposite.

CastOnThis
02-17-18, 22:30
Strip clubs are dangerous. There have been several shootings at strip clubs in Kiev. Dolls, was one of them. This is the other: http://sevendaynews.com/2018/01/24/in-kiev-strip-club-chikypicky-shooting-occurred/ So, to add to the fact the majority of strippers are ugly, and demanding of tips. There is now rampant violence in them.

Kozerog
02-18-18, 03:27
Haggling about money with a potential mistress is a very bad start to things, makes the man look stupid and / or cheap, which is why I'm trying to think everything out in advance. Probably going to go with 2000 hrv per meeting, 2 meetings per week, or over 16000 per month. That is a respectable enough offer for an LTR, but not so high as to intimidate woman or make me look like a foolish foreigner, since even well-off locals can offer that amount. 2000 is below the point at which I would start to feel uncomfortable, so leaves room for occasional bonuses or other expenses. Better to under-promise and over-deliver than the opposite.Changed my mind. Important thing is to feel right about what I'm doing. I actually like giving cash money to girls, given how cheap I am otherwise. So 2700 hrv ($100) per 3+ hour meeting but no restaurants, no champagne, just a bottle of Bon Aqua water worth 6 hrv, and unrenovated apartment with cheap green carpeting and old furniture like at babushka's place. She can't call me cheap because of the cash I give, but everything else is cheap, the way I like it. Also, I don't have to have a differing price for top tier 19 year old versus 35 year old MILF. All semi-pros get 2700, reliable pros get 4200 ($150+taxi), and I choose girls based on who pleases me rather than based on price, thus saving me from myself, because otherwise the cheapskate in me would always take the cheapest girl.

For anyone reading this, you need to do same mental exercise as me, so you don't get caught flat-footed. For every possible situation, have a price or price range ready that you are comfortable with, comfortable paying that price if the girl accepts and comfortable walking away if the girl asks more. Up until now, I've been using pros in Ukraine, and they make the initial offer and then I accept or refuse or perhaps counter offer. Professionals are used to negotiating and not offended by it. But with semi pros and mistresses, the man has to be the one who runs the negotiation, and it's up to him not to over negotiate, because the girl might cave in and then resent the man afterwards, which ruins things. Nothing says men less well-off than me can't go under 2700 for 3+ hours, that's just what I feel comfortable with. Less well-off men might offer 1000, which is still a good deal for an LTR with a MILF (1000/ meeting = over 8000/ month, for easy work).

TheDriller
02-18-18, 12:26
Any suggestion for a young guy to get laid? (22) with minimal bullshit. (speaking Russian).

I am looking for semi-pros (student girls that do it part time).

After looking at ukrgo I understood.

1. most of this are salons and if the photos are real they are like 8 years old.

2. you can know it by the photo, if her face is blurred in professional way some one did it for her.

If they background looks like a salon, then it is.

3. if the same phone number appears for many girls its a salon.

4. some ads state "not a salon".

Is there any chance to fish some fresh face there?

If so how?

AntonySun1996
02-18-18, 21:27
Gents,

I now want to try to monger through VK and need some advice. I used to flirt with girls on VK a long time ago but have never formally looked for sex with it. Now I want to use it to find either semi pros or long term sugarbanbies. A few questions:

1. How do you identify the potential girls who may need money in return for sex? Are there any hints that they might need a client / sugar daddy?

2. Once you have identified your target, how do you talk to them? Would you just put it in a straightforward way like 'hey would you agree to have sex with me if I offer you xxx dollars', or you should put it another way?

3. What are the dos and don'ts that I need to pay attention?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Antony.

GDreams
02-19-18, 02:35
Gents,

I now want to try to monger through VK and need some advice. I used to flirt with girls on VK a long time ago but have never formally looked for sex with it. Now I want to use it to find either semi pros or long term sugarbanbies. A few questions:

1. How do you identify the potential girls who may need money in return for sex? Are there any hints that they might need a client / sugar daddy?

2. Once you have identified your target, how do you talk to them? Would you just put it in a straightforward way like 'hey would you agree to have sex with me if I offer you xxx dollars', or you should put it another way?

3. What are the dos and don'ts that I need to pay attention?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Antony.I have been told VK is blocked in Ukraine so most no longer use it.

AntonySun1996
02-19-18, 18:40
I have been told VK is blocked in Ukraine so most no longer use it.It has been blocked indeed, however most of the Ukrainian girls I know are still using it, so I would assume VK is still popular among Ukrainian girls. I guess they can use it with help of VPN, just like how people use facebook or twitter in China.

PhotoSlider
02-19-18, 23:34
It has been blocked indeed, however most of the Ukrainian girls I know are still using it, so I would assume VK is still popular among Ukrainian girls. I guess they can use it with help of VPN, just like how people use facebook or twitter in China.Same considerations must apply as while dealing with mamba. Target audience on both sides is the same.

There might be some differences due to policies and moderators on each platform. Not sure how radical those differences are.

Coyle
02-20-18, 01:43
My friend in Kiev told me Ukrainian police started campaign to clean up sex business owners.

Many sex buyers are disappearing and local girls can't make money due to this. Is this true?

Riina
02-20-18, 04:04
Gents,

I now want to try to monger through VK and need some advice. I used to flirt with girls on VK a long time ago but have never formally looked for sex with it. Now I want to use it to find either semi pros or long term sugarbanbies. A few questions:

1. How do you identify the potential girls who may need money in return for sex? Are there any hints that they might need a client / sugar daddy?

2. Once you have identified your target, how do you talk to them? Would you just put it in a straightforward way like 'hey would you agree to have sex with me if I offer you xxx dollars', or you should put it another way?

3. What are the dos and don'ts that I need to pay attention?

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Antony.Generally speaking, do not use VK to monger. Girls are very sensitive to what you write them. A few wrong chit chats can lead to blocked profiles for suspicious behavior. VK is an important social network to Ukrainian girls and most profiles took years to grow.

Mamba is better for mongering.

Belvaros
02-20-18, 04:06
Haggling about money with a potential mistress is a very bad start to things, makes the man look stupid and / or cheap, which is why I'm trying to think everything out in advance. Probably going to go with 2000 hrv per meeting, 2 meetings per week, or over 16000 per month. That is a respectable enough offer for an LTR, but not so high as to intimidate woman or make me look like a foolish foreigner, since even well-off locals can offer that amount. 2000 is below the point at which I would start to feel uncomfortable, so leaves room for occasional bonuses or other expenses. Better to under-promise and over-deliver than the opposite.So you are paying even the MILFs 4 x the national avg wage for 2 meetings a week.

Coyle
02-20-18, 05:16
Does anybody know how not to get stamp from Ukraine immigration pass? My passport now has too many and does not look good.

Deer1234
02-20-18, 08:32
Thank you for letting me know the site for the bus schedule.

Following this site, I went to Metro Demievska at 8 am.

However, there was no bus from there to Chernigov.

Perhaps, we need something more than google to move around in this country.

I cancelled the trip and paid the cancellation fee.

The girl just absorbed the prepayment (I was to travel to her, but she requested prepayment!

I should have followed your advice from the beginning.


Try maps. google.com.

Directions from Kyiv to "Myru Ave, 35, Chernihiv, Chernihivs'ka oblast, Ukraine, 14000".

There are trains, taking about 4 hours.

Taxi is 2 hours. Bus is 4-6 USD and under 3 hours:

https://infobus.eu/en/bus/route/from-kiev-to-chernihiv

Respected Forum veterans advise to have the girl come to you in Kiev for multiple reasons..

Misterxxx
02-20-18, 10:03
Does anybody know how not to get stamp from Ukraine immigration pass? My passport now has too many and does not look good.Are you from Turkey? In this case you can enter the Ukraine with your national ID and don't need a passport. That means no stamp.

Not from Turkey? Sorry, but in this case you need the passport and it's impossible to avoid a stamp.

Member #4722
02-20-18, 10:10
Does anybody know how not to get stamp from Ukraine immigration pass? My passport now has too many and does not look good.Tell your wife they made a mistake.

MvuLane
02-20-18, 15:41
Tell your wife they made a mistake.In many countries you can get a (legal) second passport. Just need to say that you travel a lot and your passport is often with a consulate awaiting a visa and you still need to travel during that time. Then keep one passport for Ukraine and "similar" countries and another one for mainstream travel. If you are rich you can get a second passport from another countries, just need to fork out 20 k (Comoros), 200 k many Caribbean countries and Vanuatu, a million or so (Malta, Cyprus, etc.).

AntonySun1996
02-20-18, 21:10
Generally speaking, do not use VK to monger. Girls are very sensitive to what you write them. A few wrong chit chats can lead to blocked profiles for suspicious behavior. VK is an important social network to Ukrainian girls and most profiles took years to grow.

Mamba is better for mongering.Thanks for advice. I do think it is less likely to come across fake profiles on VK though, since it is not a popular option for mongers.

AntonySun1996
02-20-18, 21:12
Thank you for letting me know the site for the bus schedule.

Following this site, I went to Metro Demievska at 8 am.

However, there was no bus from there to Chernigov.

Perhaps, we need something more than google to move around in this country.

I cancelled the trip and paid the cancellation fee.

The girl just absorbed the prepayment (I was to travel to her, but she requested prepayment!

I should have followed your advice from the beginning.I remember the buses to Chernihov stop near the Kharkovska Metro station.

Guntherus
02-21-18, 02:19
....The girl just absorbed the prepayment (I was to travel to her, but she requested prepayment! I should have followed your advice from the beginning.To all of you out there: never send money to girls that you have not met.
However, I once sent 200 dol to a sweet young girl I had met, as she was starting an internet-company. I still meet her twice a year and she's always so sweet and sexy and generally fun to be with. Started squirting with me a year ago. And she never forgets that I helped her out once.
The exception confirms the rule; Never send money to girls that you have not met.

Member #4722
02-21-18, 02:54
To all of you out there: never send money to girls that you have not met.
However, I once sent 200 dol to a sweet young girl I had met, as she was starting an internet-company. I still meet her twice a year and she's always so sweet and sexy and generally fun to be with. Started squirting with me a year ago. And she never forgets that I helped her out once.
The exception confirms the rule; Never send money to girls that you have not met.I met a very sexy young lady on Mamba and we have become pretty good friends. I have always wondered what she wants from me as I am literally as old as her father. She has never asked me for anything. I have sent her a little money on her birthday and Christmas. She charges $70 for a no-rush session so I think this is money well spent so she will prioritize me on my next visit.

PhotoSlider
02-21-18, 04:11
Thank you for letting me know the site for the bus schedule.

Following this site, I went to Metro Demievska at 8 am.

However, there was no bus from there to Chernigov.

Perhaps, we need something more than google to move around in this country.

I cancelled the trip and paid the cancellation fee.

The girl just absorbed the prepayment (I was to travel to her, but she requested prepayment!

I should have followed your advice from the beginning.Sorry to hear that. Look at the bright side. Imagine if you were to have complications in Chernigov. At least in Kiev you are mostly safe.

Do not prepay. I would ask the girl to come and see you in Kiev, if she is that hot. Or forget the whole ordeal altogether and start from scratch with someone else.

HiPlainsDirftr
02-21-18, 06:17
Went for a caberet show, but it was never seen after 2 hours. It's just another empty club in Kiev where the girls aggressively solicit hand jobs in private rooms. The locals avoid the place, as I was the only customer in the club on a Saturday night. I was required to pay 1000 UAH up front, but never got a receipt. The girls stopped dancing on stage when I didn't want private dances. They just lied down on the couch on state. I went to leave and settled the bill for 300 UAH change (not spent). Cash in hand, I went to get my coat but was blocked by the bouncer when the bartender said I never paid the initial 1000 UAH deposit. The manager locked the door.

An ugly confrontation followed. The manager said I was cheating them because I didn't drink enough. Until this point I had received neither a bill nor a receipt. The bouncer assaulted me and threatened to call his mafia friends, and that I would "never leave Ukraine". Eventually, the bartender printed bills that I owed 200 UAH more than originally agreed, but would not give the originals to me. I told the manager that this was no way to run a business and that she was not giving bills or receipts to avoid taxes. Her reply was that I should not tell her how to run her business. I replied that she had no business as I was the only customer in the club. I eventually paid an additional 200 UAH and was able to leave, but no respectable business resorts to this kind of thuggery for what is today $7.36 (USA). I never got a receipt.

There are too many other good clubs in Kiev. Avoid this club like the plague, and its sister near the Olympic stadium, as the locals do.

PhotoSlider
02-21-18, 20:53
...I told the manager that this was no way to run a business and that she was not giving bills or receipts to avoid taxes...Admire your standing up to these dishonest thugs and leaches! Cannot imagine doing this in Vegas, Nevada, back in the day when mob was truly calling the shots.

I would simply walk away after seeing the facility is empty. Thanks for the sharing with the Forum though.

Scarlette left somewhat similar impression. Empty lobby, away from main streets, no energy inside.

Star Rhino on Solomenka used to be fun in 2011, not sure how it is now.

With all its deficiencies Rio is never boring, especially if I am already drunk and do not expect to spend $300-400 on take-out. Cozy, good drinks, some girls are sweet and do not mind chatting and even sharing their phone number for meeting in private.

Didn't occur to me visiting any strip clubs in Arena or on K.

Sevenup
02-26-18, 12:57
Several years ago I was in Kiev regularly for business and the treats of these trips always was the availability of stunning beauties info massage places at a very fair price. With the current exchange rate, the price today would be less than half of what I used to pay so I'm considering a trip to visit old friends and enjoy these massages again. Anyone knows if they find any artificial ways to increase the bill? Is the quality of the girls and services the same (no full service but very good body rub with highly motivated happy ending!

PleaseDaddy
02-27-18, 09:25
Tell your friend to get a life.

Things will never change!


My friend in Kiev told me Ukrainian police started campaign to clean up sex business owners.

Many sex buyers are disappearing and local girls can't make money due to this. Is this true?

Tomek123
02-27-18, 12:02
Several years ago I was in Kiev regularly for business and the treats of these trips always was the availability of stunning beauties info massage places at a very fair price. With the current exchange rate, the price today would be less than half of what I used to pay so I'm considering a trip to visit old friends and enjoy these massages again. Anyone knows if they find any artificial ways to increase the bill? Is the quality of the girls and services the same (no full service but very good body rub with highly motivated happy ending!I can advise the salon of Aphrodite. http://afrodita.cn.ua.

http://afrodita.cn.ua/eroticheskiy-massazh-polovogo-chlena.html

Sometimes I'm in the city of Chernigov-2 hour near Kiev. . massage lingam 700 hryvnia per hour. The girls are attractive enough, but before a few years ago were more beautiful. Also I often visit the city of Sumy. There a similar salon where there are always a few ladies. Two years ago there worked a girl. Just incredible beauty blonde maybe 18-19 years. With a big mole on his tits. Huge white breast with big nipples. And huge green eyes. I was so excited by her beauty that I had an erection of excitement. I had to take a little sildenafil. After she caressed her breasts with my penis and then took it with her thin hand I shot as a gun shoots the artillery of the United States now in Syria -WOOOw! My sperm with a powerful jet flew like oil from a well. It was very impressive sight. I still remember how my body shuddered in sweet convulsions and her uninhabited beautiful green eyes.

Also I remember a massage with two girls. This blonde and another girl, but less beautiful than a blonde. A little full. But with a big nice ass. Probably it was one of the most acute and powerful orgasms in my life. My heart was ready to jump out of my chest. I liked how gently they wiped sweat with my body covered with sperm. It was very sensual- napkins and sperm. Also they have a service-half an hour if you arrived in the period from 10 am to 6 pm. It costs 390 hryvnia. If you arrived after 18 pm, then half an hour of massage will cost 500 hryvnia. This is the minimum price. If you have time to finish in half an hour. There now there are young pretty ladies but I can not forget this girl with white skin and green eyes and big tits. No one could match her in beauty.

Ringudor
03-01-18, 20:40
Star Rhino on Solomenka used to be fun in 2011, not sure how it is now.I was some months ago, girls are so pretty and do so good strip show, but they are too much into money, they are full time asking you for drinks, its disturbing, also usually local is empty and you have to pay a 500 grivna deposit plus entrance to get there, there are better places instead its not bad.

PhotoSlider
03-01-18, 23:55
I was some months ago, girls are so pretty and do so good strip show, but they are too much into money, they are full time asking you for drinks, its disturbing, also usually local is empty and you have to pay a 500 grivna deposit plus entrance to get there, there are better places instead its not bad.Yeah, girls were into consummation back in 2011 as well: "I am hungry! Can we order sushi please?" and no take out. But I was drunk, they were pretty and private dances were amazing.

I graduated from strip clubs since then. Prefer to cut the middleman out and pay the girls directly.

Armorer
03-02-18, 06:58
Sitting here reading the board remembering my first visits all those years ago. River palace is gone. I'm pretty sure restown is gone. The first bar I ever went in in Kiev was called cowboy club. Was all so very different for me. The year was 2001. I still try and get back but not very often do I get a chance. Last time I was there I was out playing with cold war eara tanks And small arms. Stayed in a flat just near O'Brian's pub. Visited by a couple of young ladies I know. One would live with me 24 7 while I was there for a very reasonable fee. Thanks for the updates and stories guys. I enjoy them and although I may not post much anymore and yes it shows only a few posts. Still I was active in the early years. Happy hunting guys.

The Mercy Seat
03-05-18, 16:17
Seems that I am single again. So thinking about upgrading mamba to VIP status. Seems like you can't talk to anybody without VIP status anymore. Is it safe to pay with bank card? Is it worth it? I hear that mamba has just gotten worse and worse.

DeepalGghh
03-05-18, 16:26
Today I chatted with a girl on Badoo and asked her to stay with me for 10 days which will include intimacy. She asked 5000 rubles which is too low however later changed it to 15000 rubles. We chatted a lot and I asked her why so low. Since she is beautiful she can easily earn money in other countries and have the same amount per day. She asked me how to go there then I informed her about the visa things for one country. She has taken my number to video call and then called me however I could not see her face. Later she started asking me to transfer some dollars in her account immediately else she will report to international agencies that I was persuading her into prostitution. She sent me the screenshots of the video calls and threatened me. I deleted my account. Later she messaged me on my mobile that she will do what has said. I saved the chat and told her that you can go ahead and since you are blackmailing, I will also show the chat to agencies if someone comes to me. I also told her not to waste the time on me and find some other person. It was a Russian number.

I am posting this here to protect the members from any kind of scam. Please do not share any personal things with these online girls.

Stevie69
03-05-18, 16:58
I mean that 1000 to 2000 UAH per hour ought to be plenty for nearly all situations. And I mean UAH, not the equivalent in USD or Eruos. There is no reason to think or negotiate in foreign currencies. For a cashier girl, secretary, waitress, or bank teller, that amount can be up to one week's wakes. It is more than fair. You could say under 1500 for girls over 25, and 1500 to 2000 for girls under 25, or based on other factors (horniness, last day in the city, etc). My best experiences, which I called for encore performances, have been with girls in the 1200 to 1800 range. I can only have a great time if the girl also had a great time, so they are likely to come back for more. If you have a satisfactory performance, for a good price, then you can call then again, or ask for referrals. It makes for great threesomes, and you can safely assume that the friend will provide the same service and for the same price. Only once, when I returned 4 months later, a girl tried to up-sell me form 1200 to 1500. I agreed. Five months later, she tried to reduce her services. She insisted upon no kissing and covered BJ (maybe she found a BF or read some literature) . I said "no" and called two of her friends, whom she had introduced me to, and they were happy to join me.

Remember that GIA, hardened professionals, charge 4000 to 5000 UAH, and HALF of it goes to the house. An occasional semi-pro 25 year old secretary should be absolutely happy with 2000 UAH. If you meet her 3 times, she has doubled her month salary!

I do not see the point of long term arrangements unless you live there. Just pay as you go. Nor do I see the point of a 3-hour session. Who can perform for 3 hours?! Not even porn stars. Even with a 10 minute BJ, 5 minutes of chit-chat, and 5 minutes of DATY, 90 % of men would have plenty of time to finish, with 1-5 minutes left for cuddling. The length of coitus, from intromission to ejaculation, is surprisingly short, and by itself, leaves women completely unsatisfied.

I once had a girl during the day, for a reasonable price (maybe 1500 UAH, I do not remember exactly. Maybe it is in a previous post). She mentioned that she was going to the Caribbean that night. When I met her, she looked far more glamorous, and had changed her attitude from that of a smiley and friendly girl to that of an aloof and distant woman. Her price had also changed, to 200 USD! She was not even thinking in UAH any more. For me, she agreed to 150 USD. I declined. Soon enough, she and a friend moved to a table with two foreigners, and 5 minutes later, they were out the door. I assume she got her asking price. Three days later, I got her again, during the day, for a reasonable price. The cover charge, little sexy dress, high heeled shoes, hair, make-up, nails, and handbag, all add to their overhead costs, and they have to recoup them.

It is not just the money. You really do not know what you will get until after you get it. Even a playboy playmate lookalike, for 5000 UAH, could end up giving you uninspired sex. For that much, you could try out 2 or 3 university students or young single mums, and found one that was worth repeating. Next time, you can ask her to put on her sexiest little dress and high heels!


You've made some great posts here Steve69, so I don't want to sound too harsh, but you really need to clarify what you mean. 2000 uah per hour, or per session lasting 3 hours, or per what what exactly? Also, is this a one time meet by a foreigner who doesn't speak Russian, or a long-term arrangement. Also age of girl and other factors. There are native Ukrainian guys who spend 2000 uah per month on their ordinary looking single mother girlfriend, but that situation won't be common for ISG readers.

DeepalGghh
03-05-18, 18:07
Want to inform an incidence. Today after reading the forum, got excited and chatted with a girl on dating app. She claimed to be Ukrainian and I offered her to spend some days with me. I also mentioned that I won't mind giving her money. She quoted a very low price to which I could not believe. I asked her to share her viber which was a Russian number. I reconfirmed about the price which she revised after asking and again it was too low for 10 days including intimacy. Since the chat was going long and I was also enjoying so I told her why she have not gone to other countries. The price she was asking for 10 days can be earned in single day. She enquired where / how to go and I have gave her some countries and the visa procedure. She also said that she has one more friend to go. Since I was enjoying so I asked nude pictures which she shared without the face. She also made a video call in which I could not see her face. Later she got serious and threatened to transfer few dollars in her account. If I do not do that she will inform the international agencies that I was persuading the girl for prostitution. She passed on screenshots of video chat. I immediately deleted my social app account. She continued threatening me on my viber but I refused to transfer any money. I also said boldly that she is wasting time better find someone else.

I just want to inform the fellow mongers not to share their personal information with these working girls. They will unnecessary harass. Since I have never been to Kiev but it looks unsafe. Better to monger in countries where things are legal.

Timmy21
03-06-18, 06:03
Remember that GIA, hardened professionals, charge 4000 to 5000 UAH, and HALF of it goes to the house. An occasional semi-pro 25 year old secretary should be absolutely happy with 2000 UAH. If you meet her 3 times, she has doubled her month salary!

It's actually 60-40; the house receiving 60 percent. Greasing police and politicians is expensive.

PhotoSlider
03-06-18, 07:00
...I do not see the point of long term arrangements unless you live there. Just pay as you go. Nor do I see the point of a 3-hour session. Who can perform for 3 hours?! Not even porn stars. Even with a 10 minute BJ, 5 minutes of chit-chat, and 5 minutes of DATY, 90 % of men would have plenty of time to finish, with 1-5 minutes left for cuddling. The length of coitus, from intromission to ejaculation, is surprisingly short, and by itself, leaves women completely unsatisfied...I prefer longer, and not because of exceptional masculinity. I like keeping my ladies satisfied. What can be better than horny 5'9" 20 years old beauty with gorgeous long hair on her sweaty face, saying to you sincerely: "Thank you! It was awesome!

Or at least when she's acting convincingly enough.

Agree that 1 hour is sufficient for most of the outcalls coming to you. 1 out of 10 or so I extend to 2 hours.

If she's an intelligent GIA girl, or a well known GF, then for myself 6-8 hours is a minimum to experience the joy to full extent, and 2-3 days is not unheard of. 10 days might be stretching it too far even for exceptional ones. By 6th or 7th day I start cheating on my dedicated beauties even while they are guarding their source of income and tell me not to tip the girls in Rio while visiting together. That's BTW is the selection criteria. If GF du jour enjoys going to stripclub together, then it is a relationship that has a chance to last many years, otherwise she gets pushed aside because personal freedom is paramount.


...The cover charge, little sexy dress, high heeled shoes, hair, make-up, nails, and handbag, all add to their overhead costs, and they have to recoup them...When she is in my bed, I may notice impeccable manicure, but not for long, and her responsiveness means so much more.

The morning after without any make up is even more fun, as some girls become shy, some are proud of their natural beauty walking around in my T-shirt. Handbag and iPhone model I could care less about, as they do not add to performance. They are status symbols, and maybe I am atypical monger, as I find Huawei smartphone or old model Samsung so cute and special in the hands of a sophomore student! That means she doesn't have enough money, and I can and am willing to help.


It is not just the money. You really do not know what you will get until after you get it. Even a playboy playmate lookalike, for 5000 UAH, could end up giving you uninspired sex. For that much, you could try out 2 or 3 university students or young single mums, and found one that was worth repeating. Next time, you can ask her to put on her sexiest little dress and high heels!5000 UAH juice squeezers and vacuum cleaners suck big time. Except for some GIA girls, and as you said in reality they are 2500 UAH or less. I know at least one office worker who is currently employed by GIA. Great young lady. Smart, tender, gorgeous and so much fun!

High heels are good when we go out and she is so much taller. It used to concern me, and then one masseuse explained that it is actually so cool to be escorted by a taller lady or even two of them. After that I stopped requesting GIA to send me girls with low profile shoes. One of them "forgot" her louboutins in my residence. Kiev ladies are so creative.

Great post, Stevie!

PhotoSlider
03-06-18, 20:49
It's actually 60-40; the house receiving 60 percent. Greasing police and politicians is expensive.Good info. Therefore 6000 UAH girls are getting 90 USD for the first hour. 4000 UAH Dominika gets 60 USD. Longer appointments lower the average hourly rate at GIA, making it more attractive for 8-10 hours engagements that I like. Needless to say girls make better money when additional services are ordered by the customer. I am not getting into discussion of whether they report upsell earnings to GIA accounting.

The difference with regular call girls agency is the price, and how the customers and girls are treated. GIA doesn't call 10 seconds before customer is about to ejaculate asking if he would like to extend for another hour when his time expires in 10 minutes.

GIA also claims girls have a choice in making their decisions on when to work or not, as well as DFK and such. Up to a point they certainly do, as long as GIA itself makes enough money. Not sure why GIA doesn't expand beyond 30-40 girls. Perhaps that's the saturation point for this market segment. GIA mentioned they have many candidates per single vacancy when it opens up.

Once upon a time I ordered 20 years old Emily from Krasnoarmeyska / Velika Vasilkovska 42. Agency took 1800 UAH an hour. At my place she kept pushing BBBJ and DATY extras, I declined upsell because BBBJ doesn't mean much to me, and most important she wasn't that great in bed. Attractive physically but not emotionally she was the usual nervous girl that didn't enjoy it anymore and only cared about the money. She insisted one more time on extras complaining about her miserable life saying that out of 1800 base fee she gets only something like 300 or 600, I forgot the exact number. I thought that she would have better upsell and extend chances if she delivered higher quality basic services and simply said good bye. I almost never pay for extras to anybody, no matter how hot. Prefer that the girl does it because she is delighted, because she wants it herself as the action progresses. Not because she earns more. Monetary factor should be out of the way beforehand, seems to affect my erection otherwise).

My ratio during visiting Kiev is for every 10 hourly call girls I do 1 visit to Rio with or without takeout, and 1 or 2 GIA longer appointments. I like the variety and surprise factor that good hourly call girl non-GIA agency provides. GIA is expensive, but with them usually I do not have to worry about quality, and take the pleasure of having company of an elegant girl.

One law student said in 2003: "This is a job for me and I decided that I might as well be very good at what I am doing here and take the pleasure in it myself".

In 2016 I asked another young beauty:

- What do you do?

- I give happiness to people!

- Certainly. And besides that?

- I am biochemistry student.

Only true independents get 100%. I wonder if any of the mamba girls pay protection money.

AntonySun1996
03-06-18, 22:01
Hi gents,

Would anyone like to share some real profiles of girls on websites? Blonde, and big boobs preferred.

Cheers.

AntonySun1996
03-06-18, 22:48
Hi gents,

Some other questions that I would like to humbly ask you.

I have never tried GIA, but during my next trip I would. Which GIA girl is the best do you think?

I know that GIA has quality control, but from their photos I could see that not all of them are hot to me.

I prefer blondes with decently big boobs, and it seems that Sonia is the right one.

Has anyone had experience with Sonia? Is she as hot as in photos? Or do you have other girls to recommend?

With much thanks.

Anthony.

Scungo
03-07-18, 14:19
I've got a real hard-on for a Ukrainian beauty called Alina Rotaru / Aya Beshen? Would really love to spend some time with her, either as an escort or just to take some explicit pics.

I had a few model types in Kiev before, but it was a long time ago through a guy whose name (if I remember it right) was Viktor Gachenko. I don't have any contacts there any more.

Tomek123
03-08-18, 14:50
I mean that 1000 to 2000 UAH per hour ought to be plenty for nearly all situations. And I mean UAH, not the equivalent in USD or Eruos. There is no reason to think or negotiate in foreign currencies. For a cashier girl, secretary, waitress, or bank teller, that amount can be up to one week's wakes. It is more than fair. You could say under 1500 for girls over 25, and 1500 to 2000 for girls under 25, or based on other factors (horniness, last day in the city, etc). My best experiences, which I called for encore performances, have been with girls in the 1200 to 1800 range. I can only have a great time if the girl also had a great time, so they are likely to come back for more. If you have a satisfactory performance, for a good price, then you can call then again, or ask for referrals. It makes for great threesomes, and you can safely assume that the friend will provide the same service and for the same price. Only once, when I returned 4 months later, a girl tried to up-sell me form 1200 to 1500. I agreed. Five months later, she tried to reduce her services. She insisted upon no kissing and covered BJ (maybe she found a BF or read some literature) . I said "no" and called two of her friends, whom she had introduced me to, and they were happy to join me.

Remember that GIA, hardened professionals, charge 4000 to 5000 UAH, and HALF of it goes to the house. An occasional semi-pro 25 year old secretary should be absolutely happy with 2000 UAH. If you meet her 3 times, she has doubled her month salary!

I do not see the point of long term arrangements unless you live there. Just pay as you go. Nor do I see the point of a 3-hour session. Who can perform for 3 hours?! Not even porn stars. Even with a 10 minute BJ, 5 minutes of chit-chat, and 5 minutes of DATY, 90 % of men would have plenty of time to finish, with 1-5 minutes left for cuddling. The length of coitus, from intromission to ejaculation, is surprisingly short, and by itself, leaves women completely unsatisfied.Things cost as much as they cost. If a beautiful 18 year old Ukrainian girl understands that today or tomorrow she can find a Western guy without great work on a dating site like Mamba or Ukrainedate. CUm (UkraineDate.com, sorry or in an instagram, or go to a Kiev nightclub in a short skirt or short shorts. All she needs is a mysterious smile to a few Western or even Turkish guys. Among the Turkish guys there are also lawyers or architects or businessmen. In Ukraine come to serious enough serious guys from Turkey, even millionaires. Not all the Turkish guys in Ukraine are beggars who sell vegetables or carpets to the market. But of course there are and such. When she passes in the club past all these guys, then she as a woman feels how their penises go up and how their hearts are beating. Every woman feels it. All she needs is just to choose a goal and make a verbal hint.

And after 2 hours we already hear heavy men's breath hear slaps on the ass and men's raucous cries in the corridor of some hotel and cries in the style of Pierre Woodman! Yes! Aaaa. Oh, yes! AAAA. AAAA. Yeee. Yes. I cummm. AA, . I'm not the first year in Ukraine and I can perfectly see how easy it sometimes happens when a girl really wants to buy herself new beautiful shoes or good cosmetics. A beautiful young girl next to it is always stress for most men. Add some more alcohol here. This lawyer from Istanbul simply begins to think of another head. In his pants. He sees beautiful hair and long legs and an ass in short shorts and his penis sticks out like an iron pipe. Or is it a lawyer from Toronto. He understands that a similar girl in Toronto can cost even 800-1 000 dollars. This is not an African American girl. Not Mexican. No body from Cambodia or Vietnam. This is a beautiful white girl. Not so many beautiful young white girls in Canada in general are ready to fuck for money. They just do not need money. And not every beautiful girl in Canada man dare to offer sex for money. In the end it can end with an appeal to the police and problems. You can easily get into an idiotic situation. To meet on the street in Canada with young nice white girl with the words of my Canadian friend this is not the same as getting acquainted in Kiev.

But here this guy from Canada understands that this girl in short shorts can be in his bed. Understanding this deprives him of the ability to think rationally. You can talk to such a man man, $ 150 is too much. Do not do it! !! You raise the price! You're an idiot!! It is enough for half of this amount! Do not be a nerd! You're an idiot!! It is enough for half of this amount! Do not be a nerd! But it all does not matter. His reason is not capable of working rationally. He sees before him a good ass in short shorts and his dick stands like a stick. This needs to be understood. While there are enough guys willing to pay 100-200 dollars to finish the mouth of a beautiful student from Kiev, the prices will not fall.

This is the law of the market. If you can rent your apartment in a city like Kharkov for 4000 hryvnia per month, then you will not rent it for 2,000 hryvnia. Why, if you can have twice as much. What is in it logics? If there is a severe crisis, then the rental price also falls quickly. Because people can not withdraw for such money. So with girls. If the girl understands that she can get not 1500 hryvnia and 2500, then why should she have less? We can hate or curse the guys who raise the prices. But this is the market. It hurts so hard on guys like me who earn less than the guys from Canada.

Yes. Poland is not USA or UK or Canada unfortunately. Yes. But I have to do more street work and look for a pussy away from Kiev. This is my tactic. But what can I do?

Many western guys from sultry Greece to cold forest Canada want to fuck a tall thin white pussy with blue eyes and white skin or finish it in her mouth.

There are only a few countries in the world where they can find such a pussy at a cheap price. It's Russia and Ukraine. But still add to this list of Arab and Turkish guys. Who also want a Ukrainian white pussy. But Ukrainian girls do not get any more. On the contrary. Many girls leave for rich countries and stay there forever. Many marry Western guys. For Turkish guys. For Arab guys married.

So pussy and hot mouth will inevitably grow in price. It's a market. Especially for many guys fucking a white European girl it's still a much more keen pleasure than fucking Vietnamese or Thai girls. Or in Kenya or Swaziland.

We can hate these guys and curse them for their stupidity. But what can we do. We can write a million times here on the forum-do not raise the price! This pussy is not worth 150 dollars! It costs 70 dollars! Do not be idiots!

Yes. But what will it change? This is the economy, this is the law of the market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mR89NL7ho7I

Nice video. Cute Ukrainian girls dancing.

GDreams
03-08-18, 15:08
Don't forget to send flowers to your special girls today!

AntonySun1996
03-08-18, 16:41
I've got a real hard-on for a Ukrainian beauty called Alina Rotaru / Aya Beshen? Would really love to spend some time with her, either as an escort or just to take some explicit pics.

I had a few model types in Kiev before, but it was a long time ago through a guy whose name (if I remember it right) was Viktor Gachenko. I don't have any contacts there any more.Alina Rotaru is a Romanian athlete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alina_Rotaru

Looks pretty though.

DramaFree11
03-08-18, 23:17
Nice report. T. Guys are a major issue in Ukraine and in my opinion this on major issues in the decline in Kiev, people do not want to admit this, but is the truth. They just do not behave for a variety or reasons, mostly because they can get away with bad and inappropriate behavior. In Russia T. Guys behave and act much better. Rules are enforced in Russia and they do not tolerate there behavior, this is why I enjoy Russia, so much more, not mention the girls are so much better looking, fun and little bit more honest.

Kiev they need there money and Ukraine women for whatever reason like the guys. Russian women do not, but up with there crap as much, but there are still exceptions.


Things cost as much as they cost. If a beautiful 18 year old Ukrainian girl understands that today or tomorrow she can find a Western guy without great work on a dating site like Mamba or Ukrainedate. CUm (UkraineDate.com, sorry or in an instagram, or go to a Kiev nightclub in a short skirt or short shorts. All she needs is a mysterious smile to a few Western or even Turkish guys. Among the Turkish guys there are also lawyers or architects or businessmen. In Ukraine come to serious enough serious guys from Turkey, even millionaires. Not all the Turkish guys in Ukraine are beggars who sell vegetables or carpets to the market. But of course there are and such. When she passes in the club past all these guys, then she as a woman feels how their penises go up and how their hearts are beating. Every woman feels it. All she needs is just to choose a goal and make a verbal hint..

KainNYC
03-09-18, 02:00
I heard it is hard to monger in Krakow, is that accurate? Where can we find less expensive euro girls? Thanks, P.S. There must be a country that is less expensive, standard.


For pure mongering is certainly better countries where developed legal sex industry like FKK Clubs or poor color countries. Where your white skin color will be your advantage.

The problem is also that Ukrainian women love money and are ready to suck the dick for money but they do not have the mentality of a prostitute and being a prostitute is not always comfortable for them. This is the main psychological problem. The majority of veterans of mongering in Thailand or Latin America are accustomed to a simple and understandable game -You do not need any game. You are just a gringo from Canada and that's why everything is clear. The Colombian babe understands that you are a,gringo, and therefore you do not need to convince her. She just understands that she need to suck your dick. If you want anal sex she will give you this. In Ukraine there is a slightly different mentality. Therefore, such cunning guys as Steve 69 and others talk about, friendship, about,help, little nice gift etc.

The second reason is that life in Ukraine is more expensive than in south color countries. The food is not very cheap and you can not walk all year round in shorts like it does in Brazil or Manila and do not pay for heating. In my native Poland, meat and milk are cheaper than in Ukraine. And the average wage is several times higher than in Ukraine-700-800 EURO in Poland and 140-170 EURO in Ukraine. Many girls in Ukraine in the province work for 120-130 euros a month. Also many girls in Ukraine have a distorted picture of the life and work of a Westerner. They are often so stupid that they think so,-Okay. This guy in America earns 4,000 dollars. So he can easily spend 2-3,000 dollars on entertainment? . They do not understand that all your 3000-4 000 USD money goes for a loan for cars, for a house, for insurance and for food, for a school for your children..

Scungo
03-09-18, 12:30
There are two Alina Rotarus. Both have done modelling work, though one, as you say, is a long jumper. Both are cute, but it is the other Alina Rotaru (who also goes under the names Aya Beshen and Elin) that interests me. There are pages for her on vk.com and podiumlife.

Check out https://www.indexxx.com/models/95471/aya-beshen/ and her page on top-modelz.


Alina Rotaru is a Romanian athlete.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alina_Rotaru

Looks pretty though.

Tomek123
03-09-18, 14:44
I heard it is hard to monger in Krakow, is that accurate? Where can we find less expensive euro girls? Thanks, P.S. There must be a country that is less expensive, standard.Poland? You're joking. Polish in the European Union. The average salary in Poland is 3 times higher than in Ukraine. You will not find a girl in Poland who is ready to work as a seller in a supermarket for $ 160 a month as in Ukraine. Among the European countries only Ukraine is now the poorest. Also Russia, but Russia has a higher salary than in Ukraine. But you need to distinguish between Moscow and the province in the rest of Russia. You can not find a very cheap pussy in Moscow. You need to go to the province but Russia is very big and there are problems with security. And you need a visa for a trip to Russia.

Riina
03-09-18, 16:53
I heard it is hard to monger in Krakow, is that accurate? Where can we find less expensive euro girls? Thanks, P.S. There must be a country that is less expensive, standard.Yes, Krakow is hard to monger. Kiev is the center of the Universe to most Ukrainians. Krakow isn't. Polish girls can reside and work legally throughout Europe. Ukrainians can't.

Ukraine has by far the least expensive pussy in Europe. But you're not likely to find it as a tourist.

Joeee14
03-09-18, 17:04
I heard it is hard to monger in Krakow, is that accurate? Where can we find less expensive euro girls? Thanks, P.S. There must be a country that is less expensive, standard.Hello Kain,

I understand your question.

Mongering Scene in Europe is not easy to describe as it depends of a lot of factors that varies from country to country.

Czech Republic was extremely cheap, but this was 12 years ago.

Now the only thing that is affordable in PRag is "showpark". I like the concept.

There are some small Czech cities with a lot of girls in the border between Bavaria and Czech Republic. It should be very cheap to monger there but I have never been there.

Poland has pretty girls and is cheap indeed, but the girls don't like / offer Paysex.

Latvia is very expensive since € arrived.

Hungary, Budapest, is bit dangerous. Prostitution is not legal there, so they rip you off.

Ukraine is weird situation as Prostitution is not legal, you have to invest a lot of time to make the contacts. I don't like this very much I don't have so much leisure time in my life.

Berlin is a city that you should take into consideration.

Advantages of Berlin:

Prostitution in Germany is legal, so the market is transparent.

Transport: You can move everywhere with metro or train, so you don't need to pay for taxi. (you don't need to read Kiril, and in the mongering scene people speak English).

Berlin is not an expensive city. Accommodation and food is affordable. There is an open minded mentality to sex and nudism.

People from different nations live in Berlin, so you can find the following girls in Berlin: Germans, Russian, Polish, Romanian, Asian, Balcan and some mixed ethnicity that are very hot.

Berlin has also other stuff to offer. So, you will not get bored.

1. - You have at least three big GB Clubs that you pay entrance (90€-120€) and can stay there all day. You get food, TV, and you can have a lot of times sex. And the girls are mostly hot. If you just want to stay few hours you pay the half. The atmosphere is cool.

2. - In Berlin you have a lot erotic massage parlors. The services varies as it depends from the girl. But very often the service is superb, specially if you are handsome to the girl. And you can ask for many extras. Massages start from 50 € for 30 min.

3. - if you are looking for girls looking like dolls and you have more money you can go to Artemis and hang around there. They have a lot of nationalities, I think, mostly "European" girls. Food is included.

4. - There are some basic Brothels, that work 24 hours. And you pay there 50 € - 60 € for 30 min.

4. - And there are some Websites, also for professionals.

Have fun,

J.

AntonySun1996
03-09-18, 21:56
Things cost as much as they cost. If a beautiful 18 year old Ukrainian girl understands that today or tomorrow she can find a Western guy without great work on a dating site like Mamba or Ukrainedate. CUm (UkraineDate.com, sorry or in an instagram, or go to a Kiev nightclub in a short skirt or short shorts. All she needs is a mysterious smile to a few Western or even Turkish guys. Among the Turkish guys there are also lawyers or architects or businessmen. In Ukraine come to serious enough serious guys from Turkey, even millionaires. Not all the Turkish guys in Ukraine are beggars who sell vegetables or carpets to the market. But of course there are and such. When she passes in the club past all these guys, then she as a woman feels how their penises go up and how their hearts are beating. Every woman feels it. All she needs is just to choose a goal and make a verbal hint.

And after 2 hours we already hear heavy men's breath hear slaps on the ass and men's raucous cries in the corridor of some hotel and cries in the style of Pierre Woodman! Yes! Aaaa. Oh, yes! AAAA. AAAA. Yeee. Yes. I cummm. AA, . I'm not the first year in Ukraine and I can perfectly see how easy it sometimes happens when a girl really wants to buy herself new beautiful shoes or good cosmetics. A beautiful young girl next to it is always stress for most men. Add some more alcohol here. This lawyer from Istanbul simply begins to think of another head. In his pants. He sees beautiful hair and long legs and an ass in short shorts and his penis sticks out like an iron pipe. Or is it a lawyer from Toronto. He understands that a similar girl in Toronto can cost even 800-1 000 dollars. This is not an African American girl. Not Mexican. No body from Cambodia or Vietnam. This is a beautiful white girl. Not so many beautiful young white girls in Canada in general are ready to fuck for money. They just do not need money. And not every beautiful girl in Canada man dare to offer sex for money. In the end it can end with an appeal to the police and problems. You can easily get into an idiotic situation. To meet on the street in Canada with young nice white girl with the words of my Canadian friend this is not the same as getting acquainted in Kiev...The scarcity of the resources is the fundamental cause of the increasing prices. If every horny man has a cute white pussy waiting to fuck for money at any time, no one would have the reason to raise the price. The ever increasing convenience of international traveling has made and is still making the horny men outnumber the cute white pussies by a greater and greater number in Ukraine, and it is becoming less and less likely that a cute white pussy is available every time you fly to Kiev as a monger, so some people might choose to pay more to secure their pussy resources.

AntonySun1996
03-09-18, 22:01
There are two Alina Rotarus. Both have done modelling work, though one, as you say, is a long jumper. Both are cute, but it is the other Alina Rotaru (who also goes under the names Aya Beshen and Elin) that interests me. There are pages for her on vk.com and podiumlife.

Check out https://www.indexxx.com/models/95471/aya-beshen/ and her page on top-modelz.Yes she looks pretty hot.

AntonySun1996
03-09-18, 22:10
But you need to distinguish between Moscow and the province in the rest of Russia. You can not find a very cheap pussy in Moscow. You need to go to the province but Russia is very big and there are problems with security. And you need a visa for a trip to Russia.Southern Russia is probably a good choice. Nice weather. Beautiful landscapes. Low average salaries. A girl I got to know in Volgagrod told me the average salary there is close to or even below Ukraine. Besides you girls there seem to be with really nice attitudes and less aggressive.

Jojosun
03-10-18, 11:22
I heard it is hard to monger in Krakow, is that accurate? Where can we find less expensive euro girls? Thanks, P.S. There must be a country that is less expensive, standard.On my list to do and its been there or few Years.

http://www.moldovahostels.com/phone/index.html

Check Tiraspol under Moldova here on ISG for Slavic, Russian Girls.

PhotoSlider
03-10-18, 20:15
The scarcity of the resources is the fundamental cause of the increasing prices. If every horny man has a cute white pussy waiting to fuck for money at any time, no one would have the reason to raise the price. The ever increasing convenience of international traveling has made and is still making the horny men outnumber the cute white pussies by a greater and greater number in Ukraine, and it is becoming less and less likely that a cute white pussy is available every time you fly to Kiev as a monger, so some people might choose to pay more to secure their pussy resources.Solid honest explanation. With one correction.

In the grand scheme of things to many of us it doesn't matter if pussy is white Ukrainian, or tan Ukrainian, or mulatto Ukrainian, or even not Ukrainian at all. Girls attitude towards making us happy matters the most, how she is raised. Skin color is certainly secondary. Human being is human being. Besides Ukrainians are so diverse!

As Riina pointed out AntonySun's explanation is applicable to short term tourists. Those almost inevitably pay extra, and hope it's worth it. And if their unrealistic expectations do not materialize, and result in a hustle with no overwhelming pleasure, then they complain on this Forum. Arriving for the first time and hitting the ground running is not that frequent nowadays but still possible, especially for confident gentlemen, that succeed globally.

For longer term visitors, or those that already established connections from prior visits, the outlook seems more optimistic. Both in terms of available resources quality and required investment of time and funds.

AdvancedPerson
03-10-18, 21:35
I just wanted to share a story of a situation that happened to me last week in Kiev.

I was selling my phone on OLX and got a call from a guy that would transfer the money immediately to my card and then send a courier to pick up the phone.

The message arrived that the funds had been transferred and the courier came and picked up the phone.

I had a bad feeling so I called the bank to make sure that the money had arrived. It hadn't.

I called the police and they explained to me that people from jail have been running this scam for a while and even if they traced the phone to that jail, they would not be able to find out which inmate was using the phone that called me and that they keep changing couriers so they are untraceable as well.

So a word to the wise: Either go with cash on the spot, or call your bank or go online if you have online banking to make sure that the funds are there, because even though it might seem that you received a legit message from your bank, you might have been a victim of fraud.

And the only way that you can legitimately recover the phone if they do decide to pursue, is by keeping a record of the serial number, which I did not keep since I bought it from a friend without the box and he has no recollection of the serial number.

Hope it helps.

AntonySun1996
03-10-18, 23:12
Solid honest explanation. With one correction.

In the grand scheme of things to many of us it doesn't matter if pussy is white Ukrainian, or tan Ukrainian, or mulatto Ukrainian, or even not Ukrainian at all. Girls attitude towards making us happy matters the most, how she is raised. Skin color is certainly secondary. Human being is human being. Besides Ukrainians are so diverse!

As Riina pointed out AntonySun's explanation is applicable to short term tourists. Those almost inevitably pay extra, and hope it's worth it. And if their unrealistic expectations do not materialize, and result in a hustle with no overwhelming pleasure, then they complain on this Forum. Arriving for the first time and hitting the ground running is not that frequent nowadays but still possible, especially for confident gentlemen, that succeed globally.

For longer term visitors, or those that already established connections from prior visits, the outlook seems more optimistic. Both in terms of available resources quality and required investment of time and funds.Good point.

However I still do believe that the skin colour of the girls does play a major role in mongering, not only in short term but also long term.

Indeed, from a westerners perspective, the skin colour might not be a primary concern and it doesn't make much difference whether a beauty is white, Latin, or Asian. However, people from certain cultural backgrounds, for example some Asian or middle eastern countries, do have a strong preference of white girls and, in particular, Slavic girls. In the country where I'm originally from, if you marry a Ukrainian or Russian girl, it is considered as a extraordinarily great honour and you will find yourself on newspapers (not only some local tabloids, but also some major newspapers). This perception of Slavic pussies is becoming more widely spread due to the development of the internet media. With the increase of both the wealth of people from these countries and the convenience of international traveling, they are flying to Ukraine at a great and constantly expanding amount, either for short-term mongering, or for long-term relationship or marriage.

So it is important to understand that when we are talking about sex travellers in Ukraine, we are not just talk about people from Europe, Canada, or US, we are also talking about Arabians, Chinese, and Indian, not to mention the local men who have become richer than before. Besides, the population of Ukraine is in decrease, which means the pussy resources are decreasing while the demand is expanding.

Of course, it is still possible to succeed in Kiev, but the chances are becoming less and more efforts are required to be put in for ordinary mongers. The chances of getting super hot ones have dropped even more greatly. The game is changing and will continue to change.

BTW, I knew from my family that, around the years when I was born (1996), there were a good number of Russian and maybe also Ukrainian beauties flowing to my town, begging for something to eat. Most of them worked in local restaurants as waitresses, and customers can touch their butts and boobs without any problem. Good old days. Unfortunately, as a newly born baby, I was too young to fuck them. If were born a couple of years early, I would be able to fuck Russian beauties with ease in my own town, without the need to fly to Moscow or Kiev, haha.

Misterxxx
03-11-18, 11:43
So pussy and hot mouth will inevitably grow in price. It's a market. Especially for many guys fucking a white European girl it's still a much more keen pleasure than fucking Vietnamese or Thai girls. Or in Kenya or Swaziland.
Exactly. Unfortunately, I can only agree with that.

In 2011 I met a young girl in Lviv. Ksenia. Student. Slim. Blond. Fresh from the countryside. Mamba. Cheap. In 2012 she went to Kiev. Worked there in an apartment. 600 UAH for one hour. She was ready for everything. Good kissing. Great blowjob. Fucking without a condom. Without further costs. In 2013 she became independent. Back in Mamba. 1000 UAH for a meeting. Then came the crisis. Maidan. Little money, hardly any customers. We met again for 1000 UAH. At that time, that was 30 euros. For a meeting of several hours. Not per hour. The bad time was over at the end of 2015. More tourists and business people came to Kiev. She suddenly wanted $ 100. In 2016 then 100 euros. In the middle of 2017, the price rose to $ 200. I refused a meeting. At the beginning of 2018, I wrote to Mamba again. With a fake profile. She wanted $ 300. No chance for negotiations.

At first she was a pretty girl. Naturally. Good manners. Good style. Tasteful clothes. But in the past two years she has had several cosmetic surgeries. The nose. She also wanted silicone breasts. The behavior became more and more outrageous. I do not like the current photos on Mamba anymore. Barby doll.

And of course she is not 23 years old. Easy to find on Mamba.

Il Drago
03-11-18, 16:10
Hello Kain,


Hungary, Budapest, is bit dangerous. Prostitution is not legal there, so they rip you off.Prostitution has been legal in Hungary for almost 20 years. It is usually very safe. Yes, some girls want to rip off foreigners, but not all. If you speak Hungarian or have local help you can avoid being ripped off & have good time. I know what I am talking about, I have been mongering in Budapest for more than 20 years. The prices are about 65 euro for 1 hour for incall & about 80 euro for outcall which is favourable. It is also porn capital of Europe, lots of porn stars from all over Europe are coming there. Porn stars from Ukraine are coming there often & some even live there.

Il Drago
03-11-18, 16:47
Poland? You're joking. Polish in the European Union. The average salary in Poland is 3 times higher than in Ukraine. You will not find a girl in Poland who is ready to work as a seller in a supermarket for $ 160 a month as in Ukraine. Among the European countries only Ukraine is now the poorest. Also Russia, but Russia has a higher salary than in Ukraine. But you need to distinguish between Moscow and the province in the rest of Russia. You can not find a very cheap pussy in Moscow. You need to go to the province but Russia is very big and there are problems with security. And you need a visa for a trip to Russia.I monger in Budapest & in Belgrade only. Those are my 2 cities. Anyway, a friend of mine from Belgrade was in Warsaw in 2017 for 2 months for work, he was there with other guys from Belgrade. He has very little experience as a monger, but told me an interesting story. Namely, he & his Belgrade buddies wanted to fuck & since Serbian & Polish are both Slavic languages he was able to establish some conversation with the locals. One of the local guys gave him a phone number & told him that he will find fine, girls from Ukraine in an apartment. That was true info & the best part was those girls from Ukraine were cheap. Unfortunately, my Serbian friend, being an mongering amateur that he is, he forgot the phone number of the local guy. I have met fair share of Polish guys in Budapest & I was told that lots of girls from Ukraine are coming to Poland to study & work. It seems those who are working girls are cheap. I myself fucked 2 hotties from Ukraine in Budapest back in 2006. They were working in Budapest for several months. One was 10 with amazing big natural tits & great ass. The other was less attractive, but still hot blonde with tight pussy. They both were very cheap, 50 euro for 1 hour & 30 euro for 30 minutes. The attitude & service were not that great but they were hot, so it did not matter. I do not think that it matters if a country is in EU or not, in terms of prices. Serbia is not in EU, Belgrade is one of the most difficult cities for mongering & even if you are connected the price of elite girls is 250 euro. Hungary, that is Budapest is in EU & yet the working girls are cheaper there, about 65 euro for incall & about 80 euro for outcall.

PhotoSlider
03-11-18, 22:33
Indeed, from a westerners perspective, the skin colour might not be a primary concern and it doesn't make much difference whether a beauty is white, Latin, or Asian. However, people from certain cultural backgrounds, for example some Asian or middle eastern countries, do have a strong preference of white girls and, in particular, Slavic girls. In the country where I'm originally from, if you marry a Ukrainian or Russian girl, it is considered as a extraordinarily great honour and you will find yourself on newspapers (not only some local tabloids, but also some major newspapers). This perception of Slavic pussies is becoming more widely spread due to the development of the internet media. With the increase of both the wealth of people from these countries and the convenience of international traveling, they are flying to Ukraine at a great and constantly expanding amount, either for short-term mongering, or for long-term relationship or marriage.

So it is important to understand that when we are talking about sex travellers in Ukraine, we are not just talk about people from Europe, Canada, or US, we are also talking about Arabians, Chinese, and Indian, not to mention the local men who have become richer than before. Besides, the population of Ukraine is in decrease, which means the pussy resources are decreasing while the demand is expanding.Yeah, I forgot how Suleyman the Magnificent has been fascinated and enchanted with Roksolana's charms) Difficult to resist indeed.

Sincere unbiased clarification, Antony, agree with you on all points. Ukrainian ladies can be a gift from Heaven. Marrying them takes a lot of courage though.

Volpone
03-12-18, 02:45
Exactly. Unfortunately, I can only agree with that.

In 2011 I met a young girl in Lviv. Ksenia. Student. Slim. Blond. Fresh from the countryside. Mamba. Cheap. In 2012 she went to Kiev. Worked there in an apartment. 600 UAH for one hour. She was ready for everything. Good kissing. Great blowjob. Fucking without a condom. Without further costs. In 2013 she became independent. Back in Mamba. 1000 UAH for a meeting. Then came the crisis. Maidan. Little money, hardly any customers. We met again for 1000 UAH. At that time, that was 30 euros. For a meeting of several hours. Not per hour. The bad time was over at the end of 2015. More tourists and business people came to Kiev. She suddenly wanted $ 100. In 2016 then 100 euros. In the middle of 2017, the price rose to $ 200. I refused a meeting. At the beginning of 2018, I wrote to Mamba again. With a fake profile. She wanted $ 300. No chance for negotiations.

At first she was a pretty girl. Naturally. Good manners. Good style. Tasteful clothes. But in the past two years she has had several cosmetic surgeries. The nose. She also wanted silicone breasts. The behavior became more and more outrageous. I do not like the current photos on Mamba anymore. Barby doll.

And of course she is not 23 years old. Easy to find on Mamba.I experienced something similar with one of my favorite, a 18 years old girl that I met 10 times in 2015 for a cheap price. One year later she wanted more, the double of the price. It's not the heaven it used to be and you need to work hard to find a nice girl for a good price. Too many foreigners in Ukraine now and not enough freelances or non pros available.

AntonySun1996
03-12-18, 17:53
Just that Ukraine has a large amount of beauties doesn't mean you can fuck a stunning beauty at a cheap price in Ukraine.

This is easy to understand.

Think about the reasons why you can't buy a diamond at a price of a stone in Kimberley, South Africa.

A diamond is a diamond and as long as a diamond can move globally with negligible marginal transport costs, it doesn't make much difference on its price wether you buy it in Kimberley or New York.

The 'stones' in Kiev might be much cheaper than in elsewhere but the 'diamonds' aren't.

PhotoSlider
03-12-18, 21:30
I experienced something similar with one of my favorite, a 18 years old girl that I met 10 times in 2015 for a cheap price. One year later she wanted more, the double of the price. It's not the heaven it used to be and you need to work hard to find a nice girl for a good price. Too many foreigners in Ukraine now and not enough freelances or non pros available.How long does it take for a fresh village girl with sincere interest for adventure to evolve into a vulture with silicon injected lips, Gucci purse and contempt for her own primary business?

By my own observation it is under 2 years. Much shorter for apartment call girls. Seems to coincide with average tenure at GIA.

PhotoSlider
03-12-18, 22:37
Just that Ukraine has a large amount of beauties doesn't mean you can fuck a stunning beauty at a cheap price in Ukraine.

This is easy to understand.

Think about the reasons why you can't buy a diamond at a price of a stone in Kimberley, South Africa.

A diamond is a diamond and as long as a diamond can move globally with negligible marginal transport costs, it doesn't make much difference on its price wether you buy it in Kimberley or New York.

The 'stones' in Kiev might be much cheaper than in elsewhere but the 'diamonds' aren't.Agree with your metaphor only to a certain degree. Statistically what you say is true.

But why high quality Emeralds in Brazil are cheaper than in New York? Because it is closer to emerald mines, and mark up is certainly much lower because overhead is not as high yet. As you say the best gems are distributed globally, whoever can buy them. Still high quality emeralds are available and much cheaper in Brazil than in US.

Same applies to girls. Mulatto in New York is 2-3 times more expensive than in Rio de Janeiro or Sao Paolo.

Is it easier to walk into a 47th street jewelry store, speak English and then pull out your credit card? Yes it is. The whole process is regulated and there is a cost of convenience.

Is it possible to do the same in Brazil? Yes. You would pay for round-trip flight, for hotel. Then H Stern marketing people will find you right there in the hotel lobby, even provide free transportation to their gorgeous showroom with complimentary caipirinha drinks, beautiful young earrings models and no obligation to buy anything.

Locals do not have to pay tourist expenses but for most of them salaries are much lower.

Same deal in Kiev. There are gems, some are hidden, some are not. Some are in private collections and not for sale anymore, some are still going to college and not traveling much but need to cover expenses.

Local boys may have easier access to girls and still need funds available to entertain this expense category.

Would I go buying emeralds next to the mine in Minas Gerais? No. Industrious Mr. H Stern himself went more than once, sometimes at considerable risk of getting shot.

To me Kiev represents a reasonable compromise between affordable basic life style in Sumy or Poltava and access to civilization spoils of large developed megalopolis.

It is basic supply-demand ratio. How much is the very same girl in Zhitomir vs. Kiev vs. Dubai? In Dubai she has to pay for her airfare, apartment or hotel etc. She is willing to do so hoping to get better compensated by high rollers from around the globe.

Do I want to go to Zhitomir or Dubai? Neither.

Someone explained it here already more than once in terms of average haircut cost or hourly attorney services fee.

I like my haircuts done in Kiev. I always chose better looking stylist and usually manage to get her phone number).

Tomek123
03-13-18, 00:58
Just that Ukraine has a large amount of beauties doesn't mean you can fuck a stunning beauty at a cheap price in Ukraine.

This is easy to understand.

Think about the reasons why you can't buy a diamond at a price of a stone in Kimberley, South Africa.

A diamond is a diamond and as long as a diamond can move globally with negligible marginal transport costs, it doesn't make much difference on its price wether you buy it in Kimberley or New York.

The 'stones' in Kiev might be much cheaper than in elsewhere but the 'diamonds' aren't.I agree, but show me such a "white" country where you can buy a diamond for ridiculous money? I think that such countries remained probably only in Africa. Perhaps in Botswana or Swaziland, or Rwanda. Where people work for 30 dollars a month. I agree that a very beautiful pussy in Ukraine is more expensive than in Africa. But perhaps in Philadelphia a beautiful pussy is cheaper than in Kharkov? Or in Chicago? If guys from the US and Europe continue to rent apartments in Kiev, then they're fucking someone. I fucked this blonde 19 years for 2000 hryvnia. In Poland such a girl will be much more expensive. And Polish girls are not so beautiful as Ukrainian women.

Jymondor
03-13-18, 04:01
This is a quick report on my last tour. I tried few different sources to find proper girls but eventually struck with GIA. The point is that I prefer longer session about four hours or even longer, but never keep the girl overnight. Lack of BBBJ, DATY and DFK are deal breakers for me. There are a couple of optional requirements: freshly shaved / epilated pussy and DIGITS. I am not a big fan of GREEK, but I like to have this option to know that I am not restricted if I want to.

There is a belief that GIA is a very expensive option. It is expensive if you book the girls for one hour and don't care about DFK and BBBJ. However, if you prefer to stay longer, GIA prices look quite reasonable. A four-hour session with DFK, BBBJ, DATY and more start at 8000 UAH, which means modest 2000 UAH / hour.

I tried another agency that supposed to be more affordable than GIA. The girls are ranged between 1500 and 2500 UAH / HR, which is significantly less than GIA's first-hour range between 4000 and 6000 UAH / HR. But GIA's rate includes DFK and BBBJ. That "affordable" agency charges +1000 UAH for DFK and +1000 UAH for BBBJ. It brings the price up to 4000 UAH / HR. No words on DATY and DIGITS, no confidence in girls' look and service and each hour cost the same: 4000 UAH. It means that four-hour session with my minimal abbreviations will fall to 16000 UAH, which is twice more expensive that GIA's entry level 8000 UAH / HR.

After those very simple calculations, I called GIA and never regret. As I book the girl, I ask the dispatch to make sure that DIGITS allowed, and the pussy is smooth. She always obliged.

I wanted to try something new and brought from Canada Nuru gel and Nuru plastic bed cover. I wanted to try Nuru FS with the Ukrainian girls since this service is crazy expensive in Toronto. If you don't know what Nuru means, google video "nuru massage" or even better "Asa Akira nuru massage" to find how sharp is that.

Below are my quick reviews. I speak both Russian and Ukrainian, so if I said "perfect talker" it means not in English, but in Russian mostly. I do not describe girls' appearance since photo and description on GIA's website are accurate.

Day 1. Zhanna, GIA.

Rather milfy, soft body. Great service: DFK, BBBJ with DT and BLS, CFS, DATY, FIV, FIA, GREEK, Pussy Slide, Italian. Everything was perfect. She accepted any positions in both FS and GREEK. I would say Zhanna was the best GREEK provider in that venue. Also, she is a perfect talker. Damage 10,000 UAH /4 hrs including extra for GREEK. The only girl in Kiev I repeat. I cannot explain why. She is neither really good looker nor the best performer, but it did click with her. Some special chemistry. Zhanna is rather soft PSE than GFE.

Day 2. Masha, GIA.

Really good looking girls. Perfect body. Formerly massage parlour attendant. She talked non-stop while massaged me but I did not listen. Some silly girly stuff. The massage was perfect. No FIA and very superficial FIV was allowed. DFK, BBBJ, no DT or BLS but great HJ on the balls and, perfect Body-Slide with the oil (she did not want to try Nuru gel. CFS in any positions. No GREEK. Damage 9500 UAH /4 hrs. No extras, just higher rate girl.

Day 3. Nastya, Indy.

She was recommended on the local forum. Perfect body, GND face, 23 years. Average skills. The first girl, I tried Nuru. She really liked it. Orgasmed few times due to tight body friction over her clit. This is normal in Nuru practice. DFK, BBBJ, FIV, CFS, perfect Body Slide with Nuru gel. I had to guide her through the process since her experience is still limited. GFE with some elements of PSE. Damage 6200 UAH / hrs including taxi. Definitely to repeat, but I am afraid that her price could go up because she is well reviewed and getting too popular.

Day 4. Nina, GIA.

The most sophisticated girls I saw in Kiev so far. She looks rather like an office lady than an escort girl. Perfect talker. I was quite tired after first three days of vigorous sex with two SOGs every day. So session with Nina started rather relaxing with lots of talking. But eventually it turned vigorous at the second SOG. She refused nuru and even oily body-slide blaming possible irritation on her skin. But the session was one of the best even without. Also we tried light FF with some moment going hard. I cum with FF deep into her throat, which is a very rare threat. FF+CIM with such a beautiful and innocent looking face is something I will remember for long time.

She was the first girl in this venue who did a shower for two. DFK, BBBJ + DT + FF + CIMx2, FIV, FIA, CFS, GREEK. The most expensive session of that venue: 12,200 UAH /5 hrs including GREEK and CIMx2. Very special girl. Real GFE performing many PSE abbreviations, which is a rare treat.

Day 5. Dominica the feature of the venue.

Dominica is the best reviewed GIA girl. She is known as the best performer, nymphomaniac, and a toy lower. First two hours she leads the session demonstrating virtually unlimited skills. Her service included all nasty stuff you can imagine excluding GREEK. Excellent BBBJ with DT, FF and gagging. Reverse FF with her laying on her back hanging her head down and me f**king her into the throat. Fisting initiated by her. 69 in very unusual positions, toys. Intensive FS with her multiple orgasms, vaginal muscles contractions, screaming and moaning.

I guided second round. I proposed Nuru massage followed with another intensive FS with all abbreviations. It was one of the best PSE sessions in my history. I mean real PSE, nothing about GFE. Damage 9500 UAH /4 hrs (8000 UAH base price, +1000 CIM, +500 tip for all those abbreviations that usually paid options but she never mentions about any extras). Definitely to repeat, Highly recommended for PSE lowers.

Day 6. Eva.

Initially, I tried to book Zhenia, but she refused my request about DIGITS. Eva was a plan be. She is a petite girl with the firm body and silky skin. All skills are average, but she followed all my guides and this makes the session great. After watching Nuru video with Asa Akira Eva enthusiastically accepted my proposal to try it. Nuru massage was originated in Japan and better suits petite girls. Eva with her petite stretched body and her enthusiasm was the best Nuru companion in that venue. We were playing each with other until all gel in the bottle gone and dried out on our bodies. The session lasted 5. 5 hours. Besides Nuru we did DFK, BBBJ with BLS and HJ, CFS, FIV, FIA, Body Slide. No DT, no FF. Eva is rather GFE. Some PSE elements were initiated by me and accepted by her. Damage 7350/5. 5 hrs. This is because she was 40 min late and according to GIA's policy they provided a generous discount.

Day 7. Repeat with Zhanna.

All in all, it was an exciting venue. Not cheap, but I got what I wanted and even more. I did not even try to find semi-pro on Mamba or Vkontakte. I prefer the shortest way: one call, one girl with no disappointments and unpleasant surprises.

It seems that my next venue will be based on GIA as well, but I will try some indys using reviews on local review board.

AntonySun1996
03-13-18, 12:52
Agree with your metaphor only to a certain degree. Statistically what you say is true.

But why high quality Emeralds in Brazil are cheaper than in New York? Because it is closer to emerald mines, and mark up is certainly much lower because overhead is not as high yet. As you say the best gems are distributed globally, whoever can buy them. Still high quality emeralds are available and much cheaper in Brazil than in US.

Same applies to girls. Mulatto in New York is 2-3 times more expensive than in Rio de Janeiro or Sao Paolo.

Is it easier to walk into a 47th street jewelry store, speak English and then pull out your credit card? Yes it is. The whole process is regulated and there is a cost of convenience.

Is it possible to do the same in Brazil? Yes. You would pay for round-trip flight, for hotel. Then H Stern marketing people will find you right there in the hotel lobby, even provide free transportation to their gorgeous showroom with complimentary caipirinha drinks, beautiful young earrings models and no obligation to buy anything..Totally good point. Still have something to add though.

I agree that the white pussies in Ukraine are much cheaper than the same pussies in New York or Dubai, or it appears.

However, there are still some other costs we have to consider.

Yes in Ukraine the girls don't have to pay for the flight or the hotel which can partly explain why the Ukrainian pussies are cheaper in Ukraine than elsewhere, but instead, you do.

Also, we have to consider the time wasted and the opportunity costs incurred. Even if sex is your primary purpose of visiting Kiev, you cannot fuck 24/7. If you fuck, say, two hours each day, how are you going to spend the rest 22 hours? Visit some Kiev Rus relics or Soviet monuments? The time could be spend more wisely at home.

And yes, there are hidden gems in Ukraine, maybe at a large amount. But still, most of them are not easy to discover and not available for foreigners. To find them and make them available to you, you have to take a lot of efforts, EG. To learn Russian, to spend more time in Ukraine, etc. , and these efforts also mean costs.

Beside costs, there are risks. By risks I do not mean its likely you will get kidnapped or shot. It is likely, however, that you lose your local contacts that took you much efforts to build. As far as I know, it appears that many Ukrainian girls do not involve in this business for a long time. Some gems just offer sex in exchange for money during financial emergencies. Even if you managed to find the gems, it would also take some efforts to keep them, and you have bear the risks of losing them.

I do think these costs and risks are worthwhile if you live in Ukraine for a long time though.

PhotoSlider
03-13-18, 17:19
Yes in Ukraine the girls don't have to pay for the flight or the hotel which can partly explain why the Ukrainian pussies are cheaper in Ukraine than elsewhere, but instead, you do.

Also, we have to consider the time wasted and the opportunity costs incurred. Even if sex is your primary purpose of visiting Kiev, you cannot fuck 24/7. If you fuck, say, two hours each day, how are you going to spend the rest 22 hours? Visit some Kiev Rus relics or Soviet monuments? The time could be spend more wisely at home.Cost of transportation is factored in anywhere you go, unless mongering coincides with a business trip or any other travel objective. Another alternative is to do what Riina discovered. Find Ukrainian girls closer to your residence.

I do not fuck for two hours each day. Jymondor stated his GIA sessions are 4-5 hours every day. Factor in time to get ready before the girl arrives, and unwinding after she leaves. My session are 6-10 hours, sometimes multiple days.

Kiev GFs stay with me 24 x 2 or x 3, sometimes it is 24 x 7 or even 10 days. I do not consider this as time wasted, why would I stay with a girl for 24 hours If I do not enjoy her company? She is relatively easy to replace.

If I am not attached to anybody for a longer period, and go with hourly call girls, then it's at least 2 girls in 24 hours which translates into 3-4 hours. Having 3 or 4 girls in 24 hours is not extraordinary. On the contrary most of the time it is an enjoyable experience. Anticipation of a new beauty, getting to know each other, learning what she likes (in bed and outside), assessing if she is worthwhile to keep long-term. She does the same. How courtship can be wasteful?

And as far as spending time in Kiev besides our major objective please give me an example of what can be done in Madrid or New York or Paris and cannot be done in Kiev? Culturally it is one of the richest cities in the world. Major performers visit routinely. Food is amazing and affordable. Sightseeing, dozens and dozens of Theaters, Cathedrals, Monasteries, Art Galleries, architecture, amazing museums and temporary exhibitions, great parks and botanical gardens. How many times did you visit lingerie fashion show outside of Kiev? What about good rock concert or classic music event for a fraction of cost? Any type of dance. Contemporary, folk, classic ballet. Maybe a good educated escort would help to show what Kiev really is. And I do not mean the usual tourist attractions even though those are great too. I hire those guides occasionally without expecting any sex favors. I also know about Kiev quite a bit myself because I always read a lot about cities I visit anywhere in the world.

Forget soviet era monuments, most of them are being removed anyways, but what can be more beautiful than spending half a day watching young girls strolling around while you decide whether you want to hit on any of them or simply relax for now? Is it achievable in any other city? Yes. With a different degree of success in certain types of activities and associated cost.

Going to Kiev for two hours of mating a day is certainly waste of time. Definitely agree with that. And that is what more likely to happen in a smaller cities. Again all depends on your own personality and of those that you manage to attract.


And yes, there are hidden gems in Ukraine, maybe at a large amount. But still, most of them are not easy to discover and not available for foreigners. To find them and make them available to you, you have to take a lot of efforts, EG. To learn Russian, to spend more time in Ukraine, etc. , and these efforts also mean costs.Correct. Reaching the goal through the obstacles makes it more enjoyable for some of us. The alternative is drive-through FKK in Germany.

Learning local language, being it Ukrainian or Russian or Spanish or Portuguese, opens many more doors. English is the language of international communication, and more so with every year passing in Kiev, but it means you are likely to pay more.


Beside costs, there are risks. By risks I do not mean its likely you will get kidnapped or shot. It is likely, however, that you lose your local contacts that took you much efforts to build. As far as I know, it appears that many Ukrainian girls do not involve in this business for a long time. Some gems just offer sex in exchange for money during financial emergencies. Even if you managed to find the gems, it would also take some efforts to keep them, and you have bear the risks of losing them.

I do think these costs and risks are worthwhile if you live in Ukraine for a long time though.That is rather unfortunate indeed. I lost the brightest gems in my collection over time, because some graduated, some got married, some changed their phone numbers, some changed their attitude and I do not want to see them myself. I like it both ways though. The thrill of 2-3-4 call girls a day plus keeping dynamic pool of 5-6 GFs available as an insurance, and working on getting it up-to-date, adding newly fresh ones and retiring jaded oldies.

It takes time and effort. Kiev may give a false impression of easily available affordable pleasure, but it is very competitive in more than one dimension.

PhotoSlider
03-13-18, 19:21
I do think these costs and risks are worthwhile if you live in Ukraine for a long time though.Or visit frequently enough.

Antony, despite my objections, I certainly respect your point of view and admire thoughtful analysis.

It takes considerable time to learn and love The City itself besides hidden gems and beauties. There was an enthusiastic report by rather energetic gentleman about a month ago. He had short time visit, great success and didn't like Kiev at all. He was the one advertising the book about chasing Models by Mark Manson. Tastes certainly differ. I like the book BTW, not all of it, but some analytical thoughts are so much better than obnoxious lines suggested by pickup predators / instructors.

IMO rejection of Kiev's exceptional beauty comes from not knowing it enough. I would be also the first to admit that I am heavily biased.

DramaFree11
03-13-18, 23:28
Excellent report. I feel most guys are just not honest in how much effort and time they put into to meet marginal girls in Kiev. If you go in with low to marginal expectation, you may enjoy yourself, but it is just too far to travel and expensive to meet average girls. When you add your time, expenses you are paying way more then you think. There are many better options.

Totally good point. Still have something to add though.

I agree that the white pussies in Ukraine are much cheaper than the same pussies in New York or Dubai, or it appears.

However, there are still some other costs we have to consider.

Yes in Ukraine the girls don't have to pay for the flight or the hotel which can partly explain why the Ukrainian pussies are cheaper in Ukraine than elsewhere, but instead, you do.

Also, we have to consider the time wasted and the opportunity costs incurred. Even if sex is your primary purpose of visiting Kiev, you cannot fuck 24/7. If you fuck, say, two hours each day, how are you going to spend the rest 22 hours? Visit some Kiev Rus relics or Soviet monuments? The time could be spend more wisely at home.

And yes, there are hidden gems in Ukraine, maybe at a large amount. But still, most of them are not easy to discover and not available for foreigners. To find them and make them available to you, you have to take a lot of efforts, EG. To learn Russian, to spend more time in Ukraine, etc, and these efforts also mean costs.

Beside costs, there are risks. By risks I do not mean its likely you will get kidnapped or shot. It is likely, however, that you lose your local contacts that took you much efforts to build. As far as I know, it appears that many Ukrainian girls do not involve in this business for a long time. Some gems just offer sex in exchange for money during financial emergencies. Even if you managed to find the gems, it would also take some efforts to keep them, and you have bear the risks of losing them.

I do think these costs and risks are worthwhile if you live in Ukraine for a long time though.

Sorbonne
03-14-18, 01:03
I haven't been here for a while but am back to report a definite fraud at Gia.

Gia is supposed to be the only agency in Kiev that provides customers with truthful information. But in this case, in fact, it's funny.

A few days ago Gia announced that this girl named Ksusha, whom I've never met, was back to work at Gia. I said, wow, she's been with Gia for a long time and looked at her age: 20. LOL.

She has a lot of comments, and I looked at the earliest one, complete with a topless photo, which was posted almost 4 years ago. So that makes her how old at that time?

Gia is most likely lying; she must be at least 22 now.

Riina
03-14-18, 01:11
I haven't been here for a while but am back to report a definite fraud at Gia.

Gia is supposed to be the only agency in Kiev that provides customers with truthful information. But in this case, in fact, it's funny.

A few days ago Gia announced that this girl named Ksusha, whom I've never met, was back to work at Gia. I said, wow, she's been with Gia for a long time and looked at her age: 20. LOL.

She has a lot of comments, and I looked at the earliest one, complete with a topless photo, which was posted almost 4 years ago. So that makes her how old at that time?

Gia is most likely lying; she must be at least 22 now.All escort agencies fudge age. I wouldn't call it a fraud.

DramaFree11
03-14-18, 01:11
Everybody in Kiev lies, this should not be a shock.


I haven't been here for a while but am back to report a definite fraud at Gia.

Gia is supposed to be the only agency in Kiev that provides customers with truthful information. But in this case, in fact, it's funny.

A few days ago Gia announced that this girl named Ksusha, whom I've never met, was back to work at Gia. I said, wow, she's been with Gia for a long time and looked at her age: 20. LOL.

She has a lot of comments, and I looked at the earliest one, complete with a topless photo, which was posted almost 4 years ago. So that makes her how old at that time?

Gia is most likely lying; she must be at least 22 now.

Sorbonne
03-14-18, 01:18
All escort agencies fudge age. I wouldn't call it a fraud.I was just reporting what I thought was a funny story.

In fact I already sent a comment on her page at Gia, but they also don't post whistle blowers' comments.

BounceWithMe
03-14-18, 03:18
This is a quick report on my last tour. I tried few different sources to find proper girls but eventually struck with GIA. The point is that I prefer longer session about four hours or even longer, but never keep the girl overnight. Lack of BBBJ, DATY and DFK are deal breakers for me. There are a couple of optional requirements: freshly shaved / epilated pussy and DIGITS. I am not a big fan of GREEK, but I like to have this option to know that I am not restricted if I want to.

There is a belief that GIA is a very expensive option. It is expensive if you book the girls for one hour and don't care about DFK and BBBJ. However, if you prefer to stay longer, GIA prices look quite reasonable. A four-hour session with DFK, BBBJ, DATY and more start at 8000 UAH, which means modest 2000 UAH / hour.

I tried another agency that supposed to be more affordable than GIA. The girls are ranged between 1500 and 2500 UAH / HR, which is significantly less than GIA's first-hour range between 4000 and 6000 UAH / HR. But GIA's rate includes DFK and BBBJ. That "affordable" agency charges +1000 UAH for DFK and +1000 UAH for BBBJ. It brings the price up to 4000 UAH / HR. No words on DATY and DIGITS, no confidence in girls' look and service and each hour cost the same: 4000 UAH. It means that four-hour session with my minimal abbreviations will fall to 16000 UAH, which is twice more expensive that GIA's entry level 8000 UAH / HR. my next venue will be based on GIA as well, but I will try some indys using reviews on local review board.And I thought I was a relatively experienced monger. So much for that as I didn't even know what numerous acronyms you cited mean. Greek, digits? You sir are a machine. Good report.

PhotoSlider
03-14-18, 04:20
In fact I already sent a comment on her page at Gia, but they also don't post whistle blowers' comments.I routinely blow the whistle about their so called "typos". When it makes the girl backwards calculated age under 18- they adjust it without giving me any barter credit for doing their QC job.

Sometimes they post fake reports on the subject of "who cares about the girl's age!

I do.

They have a script or maybe manually adjust posted age at New Year's Day for the whole agency. When the girl leaves, her age is not adjusted. When she returns, especially when she changes her stage name, GIA runs into errors. On purpose. Some girls have their age on medical test documents, some do not. GIA also says that some girls lie about their age to protect identity, which is justifiable.

Either way as long as we keep ordering, and business is profitable, they'll keep lying.

DramaFree11
03-14-18, 05:18
I do agree there are many things to do in Kiev, very cheap, (Unless you are trying to spend a lot of money), the city is very safe, easy to find good food and the weather is good for most of the year.

We will have to disagree on the girls, many better places to go then Ukraine.


Or visit frequently enough.

Antony, despite my objections, I certainly respect your point of view and admire thoughtful analysis.

It takes considerable time to learn and love The City itself besides hidden gems and beauties. There was an enthusiastic report by rather energetic gentleman about a month ago. He had short time visit, great success and didn't like Kiev at all. He was the one advertising the book about chasing Models by Mark Manson. Tastes certainly differ. I like the book BTW, not all of it, but some analytical thoughts are so much better than obnoxious lines suggested by pickup predators / instructors.

IMO rejection of Kiev's exceptional beauty comes from not knowing it enough. I would be also the first to admit that I am heavily biased.

Riina
03-14-18, 15:06
Also, we have to consider the time wasted and the opportunity costs incurred. Even if sex is your primary purpose of visiting Kiev, you cannot fuck 24/7. If you fuck, say, two hours each day, how are you going to spend the rest 22 hours? Visit some Kiev Rus relics or Soviet monuments? The time could be spend more wisely at home.
Depends who you are. I have no idea why a college age guy like you Anthony would be in Kiev without a legitimate business reason. But for grown up guys with no interest to work and just want to enjoy life, Kiev can be awesome with all the fun to be had.

AntonySun1996
03-14-18, 15:42
Or visit frequently enough.

Antony, despite my objections, I certainly respect your point of view and admire thoughtful analysis.

It takes considerable time to learn and love The City itself besides hidden gems and beauties. There was an enthusiastic report by rather energetic gentleman about a month ago. He had short time visit, great success and didn't like Kiev at all. He was the one advertising the book about chasing Models by Mark Manson. Tastes certainly differ. I like the book BTW, not all of it, but some analytical thoughts are so much better than obnoxious lines suggested by pickup predators / instructors.

IMO rejection of Kiev's exceptional beauty comes from not knowing it enough. I would be also the first to admit that I am heavily biased.Agreed.

Ukraine is definitely worth exploring if you enjoy the game. Besides sex, the process of mongering itself is considered pleasurable by many people.

AntonySun1996
03-14-18, 15:53
Depends who you are. I have no idea why a college age guy like you Anthony would be in Kiev without a legitimate business reason. But for grown up guys with no interest to work and just want to enjoy life, Kiev can be awesome with all the fun to be had.I like to visit Kiev to escape from boring uni life. Kiev is definitely a great city, but after a couple of visits, I feel the city is rather dull except for the girls. But I will explore and try to appreciate the city's attracting attributes in future for sure.

AntonySun1996
03-16-18, 00:13
Goldfinger - Not so easy to find english speaking girls in Kiev but girls are really more friendly than Letonian ones as they really want to try to communicate ( ie in Mc Donalds, in shops or on the main street called Krashatik ).

But you will find for sure english speaking girls in River Palace, Moda Bar... Never pay more than 100 USD for 2-3 hours even if some 9's or 10's will try to charge you 200 USD per hour... Just send her away, there are so many good looking girls available each night...So where have the 9's and 10's gone after River Palace was shut down?

PhotoSlider
03-16-18, 00:48
....All in all, it was an exciting venue. Not cheap, but I got what I wanted and even more. I did not even try to find semi-pro on Mamba or Vkontakte. I prefer the shortest way: one call, one girl with no disappointments and unpleasant surprises.

It seems that my next venue will be based on GIA as well, but I will try some indys using reviews on local review board.Veni, Vidi, Vici! As Julius Cesar once said:

- I came, I saw, I conquered.

Seriously doubt it could have been any cheaper with these requirements: reliable source, eliminate unpleasant surprise, ensure versatile and willing providers, resulting in repeatedly happy and exhilarated customer. Going with any other Kiev agency charging by the hour would not match neither in price, and definitely nor in service quality.

What was the key for success? IMHO: realistic expectations, adequate research prior to deployment, sufficient funds for a week of festivities, and decent degree of respect towards providers. On the latter aspect it certainly demonstrates assortment effect in all its glory.

One of the most informative and objective reports in a while.

Wish I was there! September 2016 I did 7 GIA girls with a herd of indies. Unforgettable. Rinse, repeat.

Kesroe
03-16-18, 12:59
I remember some members in this forum have done the similar thing in the states or Canada or wherever. Does anyone have any ideas on how to find Ukrainian girls in the UK to be my sugar baby? How would you discover the potential ones and how would you talk about the deal? I would prefer uni students. I suppose there must be some Ukrainian students that need the money to pay their tuition fees, rentals, etc. By the way I'd also like to learn if there would be legal concerns about this in UK. Any advice would be appreciated.What about some specialised services for it? I recommend you to take a look at the service from "Secret Benefits" for this purpose. It is a great website with nice and hot girls. I think you will find something for you there too.

PhotoSlider
03-16-18, 20:07
So where have the 9's and 10's gone after River Palace was shut down?This has been discussed over many years at this Forum.

What is the invariant criteria for the girl to be rated as 9 or 10?

Is it her looks? Her attitude? The range of her options? Height to weight ratio? Price per hour? Her shoes? Lingerie? Makeup or lack thereof? Fashion style? IPhone model?

For me it is girl's ability to make and keep me happy achieved though so many facets and details.

During last visit I would rate at least 5 girls at no less than 9. And I state this not out of vanity, not for bragging rights. They were gorgeous because each one of them took me straight to heaven.

Did any of Kiev Forum naysayers hold a candle next to the bed at the time to dismiss my "claim to fame"? No. Am I a liar? I don't think so. But I am certainly not indifferent to females in general, and to young Ukrainian ladies in particular.

I would go even further in stating that for many if not most foreign visitors Kiev mongering scene may not be satisfactory. Definitely not as easy as it was in 2003-2008 that Antony quotes above.

DramaFree11
03-17-18, 02:54
Sorry, I have to disagree with your post again. There are very few 8, 9' or 10's, and you sure hell are not going to meet them at on-line, Rio or Gia. Maybe 7 and occasional 8. I do not know why you post this stuff, it is just not true.


This has been discussed over many years at this Forum.

What is the invariant criteria for the girl to be rated as 9 or 10?

Is it her looks? Her attitude? The range of her options? Height to weight ratio? Price per hour? Her shoes? Lingerie? Makeup or lack thereof? Fashion style? IPhone model?

For me it is girl's ability to make and keep me happy achieved though so many facets and details.

During last visit I would rate at least 5 girls at no less than 9. And I state this not out of vanity, not for bragging rights. They were gorgeous because each one of them took me straight to heaven.

Did any of Kiev Forum naysayers hold a candle next to the bed at the time to dismiss my "claim to fame"? No. Am I a liar? I don't think so. But I am certainly not indifferent to females in general, and to young Ukrainian ladies in particular.

I would go even further in stating that for many if not most foreign visitors Kiev mongering scene may not be satisfactory. Definitely not as easy as it was in 2003-2008 that Antony quotes above.

Volpone
03-17-18, 03:12
This has been discussed over many years at this Forum.

What is the invariant criteria for the girl to be rated as 9 or 10?

Is it her looks? Her attitude? The range of her options? Height to weight ratio? Price per hour? Her shoes? Lingerie? Makeup or lack thereof? Fashion style? IPhone model?

For me it is girl's ability to make and keep me happy achieved though so many facets and details.

During last visit I would rate at least 5 girls at no less than 9. And I state this not out of vanity, not for bragging rights. They were gorgeous because each one of them took me straight to heaven.

Did any of Kiev Forum naysayers hold a candle next to the bed at the time to dismiss my "claim to fame"? No. Am I a liar? I don't think so. But I am certainly not indifferent to females in general, and to young Ukrainian ladies in particular.

I would go even further in stating that for many if not most foreign visitors Kiev mongering scene may not be satisfactory. Definitely not as easy as it was in 2003-2008 that Antony quotes above.You are right when you talk about services that you can get a mark of 9 or 10, at least a few times, I agree with that. However I get these marks in many other countries of the world I visited for our hobby, that has nothing to do with Ukraine. You can get bad, average and good services in Ukraine like in every other country.

However to get a 9 or a 10 beauty quality, it's harder and harder now. It might happen, but she must be really in need of money, what is rarely the case. Really good looking girls don't really need foreigners anymore. They can just get helped by their UKRAINIAN boyfriends or sponsors, quite many of them are quite wealthy. Furthermore culturally is better for them. They feel closer to UKRAINIAN men than foreigners.

Moreover it's easy for them now to find a sponsor abroad or to work abroad and to get more money than in Ukraine. They don't wait for us to get peanuts. Top notch girls know exactly how much money they get abroad selling their bodies, they are not going to sell their body in Kiev for 2-3000 UAH for 1 hour.

Times has changed and we have to accept that. You can still find pretty average girls in Kiev ( mostly from 6 to 8 quality), get a good service, but it's not easy as it used to be. Lots of work is required as some members have already explained here.

PhotoSlider
03-17-18, 06:13
Top notch girls know exactly how much money they get abroad selling their bodies, they are not going to sell their body in Kiev for 2-3000 UAH for 1 hour.

Times has changed and we have to accept that. You can still find pretty average girls in Kiev ( mostly from 6 to 8 quality), get a good service, but it's not easy as it used to be. Lots of work is required as some members have already explained here.Agree on everything you said, Volpone. With the following remarks:

My 9's and 10's might be quite a bit different from what is important to typical mongers. With all due respect to contributors and veterans.

Roughly in the order of significance for myself (with some redundancy):

1. Personality and attitude.

2. IQ and cultural level (part of the personality I guess).

3. Skin, smell and hygiene in general.

4. Class and Style. The way she behaves even without saying anything, her taste in clothes, etc.

5. Must enjoy what she's doing in bed (part of attitude).

6. Creativity. In all aspects. I shouldn't be bored wherever we are.

7. Responsiveness, openness without imposition and sucking energy out of me. Mutual energy exchange is not a problem at all.

Certainly looks are important, but not critical. I had great 1 m55 GNDs. Had sweet and shy considerably overweight 19 years old Solfeggio teacher from Kramatorsk and would love to see her again. I also had terrible 1 m75-1 m80 model types turning into minus 273 Celsius ice statues. I did have young ladies of exceptional inner and outer beauty for $50 because they were in need and didn't realize their actual value. To me attitude obviously means so much more than looks. Yes, occasionally I had to drink to make some of the girls more attractive, but not lately. I do not hunt for hot bodies, never really did. Different approach. That's why I tend to agree with Jymondor's assessment of GIA girls quality. That is why I find attractive no more than 1 in 10 girls in Rio strip club, and not because of higher cost. I still enjoy my visits there, and am picky but maybe for different reasons.

Some girls get extra points for how they hold themselves while we are in theater or at the concert, some are great to get drunk together at a restaurant, some are the best in bed and only in bed.

One of those I found in San Jose, Costa Rica in 2013, University Law student. She was counting her orgasms in Spanish: uno dos tres cuatro cinco seis siete. Her eyes shone in her own surprise, and I chose to believe.

Those students that decided to study need money. Yes, In Ukraine some students do not study at all, and buy their diplomas by traveling for money, some study and make ends meet locally.

For foreigners game in Kiev is either over or rules have changed significantly and not in their favor.

Yes those 9's and 10's are rare finds, but they still exist in the Wild Nature. Yes it means time invested, but not wasted. Yes, it's the same more or less around the globe. For native Spanish speakers it is easier in Medellin, for local Brazilians there's home advantage on play-field in Rio-de-Janeiro and so on.

My posts are definitely less valuable than reports by Jymondor. Suppose it's still ok to have a friendly discussion.

AntonySun1996
03-17-18, 12:22
This has been discussed over many years at this Forum.

What is the invariant criteria for the girl to be rated as 9 or 10?

Is it her looks? Her attitude? The range of her options? Height to weight ratio? Price per hour? Her shoes? Lingerie? Makeup or lack thereof? Fashion style? IPhone model?

For me it is girl's ability to make and keep me happy achieved though so many facets and details.

During last visit I would rate at least 5 girls at no less than 9. And I state this not out of vanity, not for bragging rights. They were gorgeous because each one of them took me straight to heaven.

Did any of Kiev Forum naysayers hold a candle next to the bed at the time to dismiss my "claim to fame"? No. Am I a liar? I don't think so. But I am certainly not indifferent to females in general, and to young Ukrainian ladies in particular.

I would go even further in stating that for many if not most foreign visitors Kiev mongering scene may not be satisfactory. Definitely not as easy as it was in 2003-2008 that Antony quotes above.While service and attitudes are important to me, I would not regard them as primary criteria when rating girls.

If service and attitudes are enough to keep me satisfied, I can just find a girlfriend in my hometown without the need to pay a penny. So why do I bother to visit Ukraine? I come here for good-looking girls with hot bodies.

And PhotoSlider, I totally agree that good service and attitudes can make a girl more attractive and make you more satisfied, but if a girl has a 6 face, 6 body, and 10 attitudes and service, I personally wouldn't rate her as 9 or 10. Probably 6+.

Member #4722
03-17-18, 16:37
Sorry, I have to disagree with your post again. There are very few 8, 9' or 10's, and you sure hell are not going to meet them at on-line, Rio or Gia. Maybe 7 and occasional 8. I do not know why you post this stuff, it is just not true.Nothing wrong with a 7. Most of the women I have fucked in my life are 7's and the literal definition of a 7 (based on a scale of 1-10) is something well above average. 7's are hot as fuck in my opinion and will 95% of the time give better service than the best looking girls who think their shit smells like roses.

The rating scale is also 100% irrelevant. Your 7 may be another man's 10. So when you come in here constantly clogging the forum with the same message it is annoying. I see you post in the Tijuana forum a lot, maybe you are more into Latina women? You seem to travel a lot to Kiev even though you don't like it since you know so much about the city. But I never see any actual reports from you only hearsay. Why do you travel here so much if it's so horrible?

Tomek123
03-17-18, 17:21
Agree on everything you said, Volpone. With the following remarks:

My 9's and 10's might be quite a bit different from what is important to typical mongers. With all due respect to contributors and veterans..Yes, I absolutely agree. First, foreigners have long lost this romantic halo and image as it was 10 years ago. Let's remember 2005 or 2006, when all the hotels were shaking from the creaking of the bed and shouting in the style of Pierre Woodman. We all remember this time well when a fat guy from Canada, a small clerk in Toronto, fucked Pierre Woodman as a Ukrainian beauty and three hours later he finished another 20-year-old in her mouth.

And Ukrainian young chickens did blowjob without a condom just to impress and often swallowed sperm.

Western Europe after that became much closer. The girls also saw that among the foreigners there are also many idiots and boors. Dirty and vulgar types. Stupid and limited, who in their entire life have not read a single book. Many girls were deceived by sex tourists. Many guys here on the forum wrote about this. More than that the Ukrainian girl is not a Colombian or Brazilian girl. For a Ukrainian girl to take in her mouth a male dick for the money this in itself is some stress and a test. Especially since when she sucks our dick she usually has a boyfriend and often she loves him.

Our friend and colleague Jymondor he wrote about it. This is not a Brazilian girl from slums and favelas, for which to take a cock in her mouth is like eating a candy or ice cream. Or a hot dog. Of course, a lot of girls like in Brazil. For example, many schoolgirls after school suck cock in a car for little money. In Ukraine. Even being virgins. This is a common phenomenon. But still Ukraine is not a country of favelas.

If you are Ukrainian and have 3-5 thousand dollars a month, then of course you will have a lot more beautiful young ladies in your bed than a similar guy from Berlin. Ideal option for sex tourism if you live in Europe but once came from The USSR and you know the language and know how to speak and read in Russian and can establish contacts. This is an ideal option. But if it is written on your face that you are not a Slav, and have come from the West, then of course the girls will set much stricter conditions for you. If you are a local cheerful guy 35-40 years old then you will not have problems finding hot pussy or mouth. In such a city as Sumy or Poltava you can find a beautiful pussy 22 years for 800-900 hryvnia. Or for 1200. No if you are a foreigner then how and where can you find this pussy? Many guys from the US want to go to Poltava? Of course not, they can only come to Kiev. And Kiev is completely different prices and conditions. Add to this the fact that 99% of guys from the US or Europe can not and will not practice street games or dating in other places, and they simply can not approach an unfamiliar girl on the street, because this is a huge stress for a Westerner, this is not accepted in the West and can even have bad consequences and problems with the law. And a local guy with money can go to a beautiful girl on the street and take her phone. And of course the Ukrainian guy will always have such advantages.

If you are interested in the conditions for local guys in the province. Not in Kiev. Then this girl in black takes 1500 hryvnia for a date. And this girl in red-marina 22 years-900 hryvnia for 3-4 h. This is the city of Sumy. 5 hours from Kiev. (Good pussy and good blowjob but horribly vulgar girls.

PhotoSlider
03-17-18, 18:23
...And PhotoSlider, I totally agree that good service and attitudes can make a girl more attractive and make you more satisfied, but if a girl has a 6 face, 6 body, and 10 attitudes and service, I personally wouldn't rate her as 9 or 10. Probably 6+.As they say in legal proceedings:

-No objection, your honour!

You and I are different, Antony. Doesn't mean one of us is right and the other is wrong.

Please allow me to ask the next logical question:

How would your rate a Rio girl with 9 or 10 face and body that later in your room gave 3 attitude and service? And these BTW aren't all the factors affecting my rating decision, but we can keep it simple for the sake of clarity.

I would give her no higher than 3, meaning that for mating with rating 1 I would need to be forced physically. Hopefully Rio attitude can be assessed before it's too late.

In 2014 I had Albina from Mandarin / Rio. She looked 9, was 10 in bed, and decided to shorten my time because it was only 1 am. The usual Rio story, nothing new. She was mostly silent otherwise, not much of a conversation. I saw her again at Rio in 2015, chose different sweetie that just arrived to Kiev from a small village.

Now in a hindsight I rate Albina as 5 or 6, and would not repeat because she lacked creativity. No chance staying with her long term or taking her out for the night on the town.

Proverbial beauty is in the eye of beholder, so is the rating.

Visal
03-17-18, 21:35
I want to book a room in a hotel or in apartment for 14 days. The issue in my head is that the hotel or apartment should allow the prostitutes or girls to enter my room.

Can you guys let me know which apartment you booked and allows the girls to visit?

I read page 11 to 1 but I need more time tomorrow to read further, just thought that I should post my question here today to expect an answer tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

PhotoSlider
03-17-18, 21:59
the literal definition of a 7 (based on a scale of 1-10) is something well above average. 7's are hot as fuck in my opinion and will 95% of the time give better service than the best looking girls who think their shit smells like roses.To be precise it is 95.4% if we are talking two sigma)).

7's are lot of fun indeed! That is also why I have a thing for slightly overweight ladies. They are out-competed in Kiev, and so sincerely thankful. At the same time there is nothing wrong with well-mannered toll slim and scantily clad dolls as long as they behave appropriately.


The rating scale is also 100% irrelevant. Your 7 may be another man's 10.Exactly my point. I once half-jokingly attempted to introduce multi-dimensional metric for assessing girls quality. Thought about creating a conversion matrix to take such statistical characteristics vector of an average western woman and transform it into a girl from Ipanema in Rio, or Cocal in Costa Rica, or Avalon in Kiev.

Quickly understood it was an exercise in futility, and would be too difficult to normalize the ranges and calibrate the measurements. Too much diversity in those places we consider worthwhile. Better enjoy as it befalls.

AntonySun1996
03-18-18, 00:49
As they say in legal proceedings:

-No objection, your honour!

You and I are different, Antony. Doesn't mean one of us is right and the other is wrong.

Please allow me to ask the next logical question:

How would your rate a Rio girl with 9 or 10 face and body that later in your room gave 3 attitude and service? And these BTW aren't all the factors affecting my rating decision, but we can keep it simple for the sake of clarity.

I would give her no higher than 3, meaning that for mating with rating 1 I would need to be forced physically. Hopefully Rio attitude can be assessed before it's too late..I certainly respect your way of rating girls.

To answer your question:

To me services and attitudes are more like dissatisfiers rather than satisfiers.

If a girl with 10 face and body gave me service or attitudes that are terrible enough to physically interrupt sex, or make me feel pain, I will of course not rate her as 9 or 10. However, this rarely happens. I would not consider not being talkative or having a cold face as this level of bad service or attitude.

Meanwhile, if a girl with 5 face and 5 body gives me 10 service with full passion, would I rate her 9 or 10? No, not even 6. Good service and attitudes do little help to make me more horny.

Besides, in my opinion, service and attitudes are, in essence, matters of money. You can buy better service and attitudes from a girl by tipping her, but can you buy a prettier face or hotter body from her with money? When rating a girl I prefer to focus on the girl herself and put the money-related factors aside.

AntonySun1996
03-18-18, 00:56
I want to book a room in a hotel or in apartment for 14 days. The issue in my head is that the hotel or apartment should allow the prostitutes or girls to enter my room.

Can you guys let me know which apartment you booked and allows the girls to visit?

I read page 11 to 1 but I need more time tomorrow to read further, just thought that I should post my question here today to expect an answer tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.Try Ukraine Hotel in the city centre. If you book a room for two people, there should be no problem. You just need to register her at the registration desk when you bring your girl into hotel.

As an alternative, you can book Airbnb apartments with no administration ladies on duty.

Have fun.

PhotoSlider
03-18-18, 02:14
I want to book a room in a hotel or in apartment for 14 days. The issue in my head is that the hotel or apartment should allow the prostitutes or girls to enter my room.

Can you guys let me know which apartment you booked and allows the girls to visit?Any apartment would allow girls to visit. It is almost expected that you will bring them in.

I successfully used AirBnB since 2015. Their super-hosts are more reliable.

Some punters suggest Olga Apartments:

http://apartment-kiev.com

Read the rules for cancellation, as this is most important and varies. Some landlords do not allow parties, because they suffered damages from obnoxious visitors in the past. Never bothered me, but my guests weren't that noisy and buildings erected before 1917 have thick enough walls to insulate sound to keep the neighbors insensible.

Hotels are different story. Sometimes they have a surcharge, sometimes set you up for a bribe. I would never do a hotel.

DramaFree11
03-18-18, 05:00
I will continue to post about guys claiming there are all thees beautiful girls in Kiev. You are wrong, I do love the Kiev, just not some of the things that go along with the city. The T. Guys, no Energy in the City, and lack of beautiful girls. The rest of the Kiev is amazing.

Tijuana, is a great place, but Moscow is even better. There are many beautiful girls in both cities. I have lived in Kiev, so I probably know way more about the city, then you will ever know.

For the record I have never claimed to be with super models, I have mostly been with 7's. When guys make this ridiculous statement about being with all these hot women, I will continue to call be. S. , other guys read these post and believe them.


Nothing wrong with a 7. Most of the women I have fucked in my life are 7's and the literal definition of a 7 (based on a scale of 1-10) is something well above average. 7's are hot as fuck in my opinion and will 95% of the time give better service than the best looking girls who think their shit smells like roses.

The rating scale is also 100% irrelevant. Your 7 may be another man's 10. So when you come in here constantly clogging the forum with the same message it is annoying. I see you post in the Tijuana forum a lot, maybe you are more into Latina women? You seem to travel a lot to Kiev even though you don't like it since you know so much about the city. But I never see any actual reports from you only hearsay. Why do you travel here so much if it's so horrible?

Zeeker100
03-18-18, 08:01
Hello everybody,

I'm thinking about revisiting Kiev after nearly 20 years. Back in the day, I had some ridiculously beautiful women, 10's an 11's and 12's on a scale of one to 10, from sex workers to girls chatting me up (despite their near-zero English) outside movie theaters. Life was amazing then! I used to go to pick up women at a Riverside place. I understand from browsing the posts here, that things are very different, now that Ukraine is in the EU, etc. See'est la vie.

I read several pages but haven't found any congruent info. Could anyone give me a quick summary of the scene now- best places, prices, etc? Or point me to a summary somewhere? Is it best to rent a room or apartment these days?

Thanks for any helpful tips you may have!

Visal
03-18-18, 14:34
Try Ukraine Hotel in the city centre. If you book a room for two people, there should be no problem. You just need to register her at the registration desk when you bring your girl into hotel.

As an alternative, you can book Airbnb apartments with no administration ladies on duty.

Have fun.You mean there are some apartments in AirBNB that have administration ladies and some don't? Can I know which do not have administration ladies?

Travv
03-18-18, 15:33
As I mentioned in a previous report, Hotel Rus would allow you to bring girls up to your room, but I had to tell them that I had paid for a double. Then the security let the girl show her ID and go to my room. The key apparently to avoid problems is to pay for a double.


Any apartment would allow girls to visit. It is almost expected that you will bring them in.

I successfully used AirBnB since 2015. Their super-hosts are more reliable.

Some punters suggest Olga Apartments:

http://apartment-kiev.com

Read the rules for cancellation, as this is most important and varies. Some landlords do not allow parties, because they suffered damages from obnoxious visitors in the past. Never bothered me, but my guests weren't that noisy and buildings erected before 1917 have thick enough walls to insulate sound to keep the neighbors insensible.

Hotels are different story. Sometimes they have a surcharge, sometimes set you up for a bribe. I would never do a hotel.

Member #4722
03-18-18, 15:50
I will continue to post about guys claiming there are all thees beautiful girls in Kiev. You are wrong, I do love the Kiev, just not some of the things that go along with the city. The T. Guys, no Energy in the City, and lack of beautiful girls. The rest of the Kiev is amazing.

Tijuana, is a great place, but Moscow is even better. There are many beautiful girls in both cities. I have lived in Kiev, so I probably know way more about the city, then you will ever know.

For the record I have never claimed to be with super models, I have mostly been with 7's. When guys make this ridiculous statement about being with all these hot women, I will continue to call be. S. , other guys read these post and believe them.I want to go to Moscow but I heard it can be more expensive in general than New York!

AntonySun1996
03-18-18, 16:40
I have recently proposed one of my sponsored Ukrainian girls to travel with me in Poland, Czech, and Germany together.

However, she claimed that she needs to apply for an international passport and the application fee is 3500 grv, and she wants me to transfer the money to her account.

I told her that she can pay it herself and I would give her the money later when I meet her, but she said all she had now is 50 grv and she needs it to buy food and pay rents.

I can hardly believe this.

First, from Wikipedia I understood a UA passport only costs 560-810 grv.

Second, I don't think anyone can survive with only 50 grv in hand.

Should I trust her? What do you gents think?

DramaFree11
03-18-18, 16:50
Moscow is great, love the City, People and girls. 30-40% more expensive then Kiev, but 100 times better. No were near as any big city in the states.


I want to go to Moscow but I heard it can be more expensive in general than New York!

Riina
03-18-18, 18:01
Moscow is great, love the City, People and girls. 30-40% more expensive then Kiev, but 100 times better. No were near as any big city in the states.I disagree. It's a megapolis difficult to navigate without fluent Russian. The scene is geared towards locals. Moscow thread is dead for a reason.

DramaFree11
03-18-18, 18:55
Correct, the thread is dead, but the city is alive and beautiful girls everywhere. Sorry this is the truth. With Uber fairly inexpensive and easy to get around.


I disagree. It's a megapolis difficult to navigate without fluent Russian. The scene is geared towards locals. Moscow thread is dead for a reason.

Visal
03-18-18, 21:00
Any apartment would allow girls to visit. It is almost expected that you will bring them in.

I successfully used AirBnB since 2015. Their super-hosts are more reliable.

Some punters suggest Olga Apartments:

http://apartment-kiev.com

Read the rules for cancellation, as this is most important and varies. Some landlords do not allow parties, because they suffered damages from obnoxious visitors in the past. Never bothered me, but my guests weren't that noisy and buildings erected before 1917 have thick enough walls to insulate sound to keep the neighbors insensible.

Hotels are different story. Sometimes they have a surcharge, sometimes set you up for a bribe. I would never do a hotel.Thank you for the information!

Sorbonne
03-19-18, 00:13
I have recently proposed one of my sponsored Ukrainian girls to travel with me in Poland, Czech, and Germany together.

However, she claimed that she needs to apply for an international passport and the application fee is 3500 grv, and she wants me to transfer the money to her account.

I told her that she can pay it herself and I would give her the money later when I meet her, but she said all she had now is 50 grv and she needs it to buy food and pay rents.

I can hardly believe this.

First, from Wikipedia I understood a UA passport only costs 560-810 grv.

Second, I don't think anyone can survive with only 50 grv in hand.

Should I trust her? What do you gents think?I don't know how how it costs to get the passport.

Being your sponsored girl, she could be telling the truth. After all she wouldn't want to lose sponsorship just for 3500 UAH. Well, it also depends on what kind of sponsorship you have with her.

It's believable that she does not have 3500 UAH.

But still the rule of thumb is never to send money to UA girls.

PhotoSlider
03-19-18, 01:41
I have recently proposed one of my sponsored Ukrainian girls to travel with me in Poland, Czech, and Germany together.

However, she claimed that she needs to apply for an international passport and the application fee is 3500 grv, and she wants me to transfer the money to her account.

I told her that she can pay it herself and I would give her the money later when I meet her, but she said all she had now is 50 grv and she needs it to buy food and pay rents.

I can hardly believe this.

First, from Wikipedia I understood a UA passport only costs 560-810 grv.

Second, I don't think anyone can survive with only 50 grv in hand.

Should I trust her? What do you gents think?1. Never send money before getting the service.

2. She wants from you more than the actual fee is.

3. Maybe she has only 50 UAH in her wallet. Why is it your problem? There are better ways to donate to charity.

4. How can you ensure during the trip that she will deliver what you expect from her?

I wouldn't travel with the girl I never met. Maybe I would consider a trip with the girl that I know real well, that proved herself in great situations as well as under stress. Even then, it is easy to kick her out from apartment in Kiev and get a new one. Different story while on the plane or train, etc.

Her taking 3500 and not showing up at all could be a blessing in disguise by saving you money in a longer run.

Do not pay, Antony. Why travel elsewhere? Because she wants to? Well, it is easier for her to lock you up for a longer period of time and keep milking. You already paid for going to Kiev, why spend more?

PhotoSlider
03-19-18, 01:54
You mean there are some apartments in AirBNB that have administration ladies and some don't? Can I know which do not have administration ladies?Yes. Landlord would know. I believe also AirBnB description or reviews would mention it. This never posed a problem for me, even with a revolving door of girls coming and going early in the morning and late at night.

Even if administrative lady doesn't like it, as long as you behave and do not fuck your newly acquired girlfriends right there at the entrance in the stairwell, and do not make noise, you should be fine coming and going with whoever you please. After all you pay for the apartment that probably sleeps 3 or 4 people anyway.

Hotel has policy to make money and keep everybody safe, and it is different from apartment regulations. I would still say dobroye utro to those babushkas and be respectful but confident, showing that you know what you are doing and you are not a pushover.

The consensus is that apartment is better than hotel for our hobby.

PhotoSlider
03-19-18, 02:48
I want to go to Moscow but I heard it can be more expensive in general than New York!Statistically representative set claims that Moscow is 50% cheaper than NYC and 70% more expensive than Kiev:

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/kiev/moscow?

One may say price of girls might be different from the consumer basket. Well, those Moscow beauties also have to pay for transportation, food, housing, haircuts and legal services. Kiev girls frequently go to Moscow even in the middle of current military conflict because they make more money there, because average salary is higher, and so on. Moscow for mongering on average is more expensive. Certainly there are outliers in any statistical model.

I tend to align with Riina as he contributed significantly to Kiev Forum in a meaningful way, both criticizing and praising. His track record speaks volumes. Moscow is less friendly unless you have friends and relatives. I spent many years working in Moscow, even learned to like it. Indeed it is very different from Kiev. Uber might be cheap, but Kiev is walkable, at least within my sphere of interest. For many reasons including girls I would choose Kiev 20 times out of 20 without even blinking.

Kiev in general is more tolerant towards nationality or skin color. I consider this as a benefit. Some of my friends in Kiev would prefer less diversity and less foreigners period. Kiev is not totally safe in that respect. There are complaints about Turkish gentlemen on our Forum. I try not to forget that some of Forum members are Turkish themselves. I have friends from Turkey. I also believe that Ukrainians are very close to Turkish in many ways. Culturally, in language, face features, complexion, etc.

I like Krasnodar and other smaller cities in the South of Russia because it is South, it is closer to my mindset. Girls there are also more like Ukrainians. Chechen, Cherkes, Ossetian and many other beauties add to unforgettable experience there. Mentally it is difficult for me to spend time in Russia. My friends say that I definitely think and behave differently from them.

I would say even for foreigners Kiev is better than Moscow. And if you speak Russian or Ukrainian plus have adequate funds then possibilities are endless, including already mentioned here easily available 7's, 8's, 9's and 10's.

GDreams
03-19-18, 03:32
I have recently proposed one of my sponsored Ukrainian girls to travel with me in Poland, Czech, and Germany together.

However, she claimed that she needs to apply for an international passport and the application fee is 3500 grv, and she wants me to transfer the money to her account.

I told her that she can pay it herself and I would give her the money later when I meet her, but she said all she had now is 50 grv and she needs it to buy food and pay rents.

I can hardly believe this.

First, from Wikipedia I understood a UA passport only costs 560-810 grv.

Second, I don't think anyone can survive with only 50 grv in hand.

Should I trust her? What do you gents think?The most expensive passport option costs a little over 1000 UAH. My ex wife did it 3 years ago for 800. It is easy to google.

Visal
03-19-18, 17:57
This thread is superb. Got lot of information from here. I wonder what I would had done without this.

PhotoSlider
03-19-18, 19:37
This thread is superb. Got lot of information from here. I wonder what I would had done without this.Visit Kiev first, see if you like it, write your mandatory report Jymondor style or the way you prefer while recovering from two weeks in Ukraine, then we can review the benefits.

Agree, Kiev Forum is great.

PhotoSlider
03-19-18, 19:50
The most expensive passport option costs a little over 1000 UAH. My ex wife did it 3 years ago for 800. It is easy to google.I doubt she wanted to surprise Antony and bring along on a trip 2 more of her roommates to crank it up a few notches. The usual hustle. Give me money and I will make you so happy so happy! She is testing how much she can get away with. Give her 3500, and she'll ask for more. Tickets, clothes, medication for her sick mother, another unique emergency case, and so on.

30 Euro for UA passport. OMG! Australian bio-metric passport is 170 euros. 10 year Canadian is also 170 euros. Romanian is 70, but Ukraine is not part of EU yet and average salary must be lower.

PhotoSlider
03-19-18, 20:16
Forgive me for posting this on Kiev Forum. Perhaps it will help to compare.

As previously reported, on the night of May 18,2016, Vyacheslav Datsik, along with his accomplices, "after performing control prepayment" broke into underground brothels on Vasilievsky Island and in the Petrogradsky district of St. Petersburg. As witnesses reported, he used violence against clients and employees of institutions, then drove 11 people to the street and made them go naked to the police station. There he surrendered prostitutes and their clients.

The procession was accompanied by photo reporters. Nude men and women were also photographed by GoPro cameras in nearby vehicles.

After Datsik forcibly drove naked girls through the streets of the cultural capital, the police drew up a record on Article 6. 11 of the Code of Administrative Violations "Occupation of prostitution". Girls were from Primorye, Lugansk, Astrakhan, Kazakhstan, Nigeria. Customers were let go. Among them was a 54-year-old hockey fan from Finland named Kaye.

According to the press, the hangout on Vasilievsky Island, in which Datsik organized the pogrom, was closed three times. Two times everything was limited to administrative proceedings, but after his last "raid" the police found the grounds for instituting criminal proceedings under article 241 of the Criminal Code "Organization of prostitution".

Datsik himself was first charged with article 119 ("The threat of murder based on hatred of a social group" article 330 ("Self-rule / arbitrariness" article 167 ("Deliberate damage to property" article 116 ("Battery") of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. Later, some of the charges were dropped.

It is noteworthy that only in one of the brothels Datsik spent 10 thousand rubles to have the evidence. According to Vyacheslav, his activity was financed by certain politicians. "Since the beginning of April, fifty brothels have been closed," Datsik boasted.

The court ordered Datsik to be sentenced to 3. 5 years imprisonment in a strict-regime correctional colony.

More information: http://www.newsru.com/crime/19mar2018/nazidatzik3ysntspb.html.

I guess he inflicted considerable damage to the cash flow, has been removed, and St. Petersburg is totally safe now.

My 2 kopecks.

Misterxxx
03-19-18, 20:19
The most expensive passport option costs a little over 1000 UAH. My ex wife did it 3 years ago for 800. It is easy to google.I agree. 3500 UAH is too much money. It's scam.

The price for the passport is 557,32 UAH if you want to wait 20 business-days.

The fast option is 810,32 UAH if you want the passport within 7 business-days.

No other option is available. Nobody can make it faster.

Link: https://dmsu.gov.ua/poslugi/dokumenti-dlya-vijzdu-za-kordon/vidacha-pasporta-gromadyanina-ukrajni-dlya-vijzdu-za-kordon.html.

But it's possible that the girl is not from Kiev.

That means she must go back to her hometown to ask for the passport and later another time to collect the passport.

A lot of Ukrainian people never change the national passport and the address of the hometown.

Even if they live have of their life in another city. Because it's not so easy to do that.