Kyiv [Archive] - Page 76 - InternationalSexGuide

PhotoSlider

10-23-18, 13:22

Forgot to mention that also included in the price is that I could live in her apartment and she would cook for me.

I know I m being overcharged but am curious to what extent I'm being overcharged. I'm a foreigner with limited Russian language skills after all, so some overcharges are expected.1. You are overcharged 5 to 10 fold.

Forget the good old times. Forget those negative bullshitters, that tell you here on Kiev Forum their logical theories and far reaching assumptions, without being in Kiev for the last 2-3-5 years, and comparing it to SE Asia or "their country" or glorious Tijuana and other vacuum cleaning places.

In Kiev 150-300 USD is fine for 6-24 hours of an amazing GFE with a stunning 9-10 student or young office worker, that would be genuinely interested in you personally, and definitely wanting to have good solid sex, sometimes even creative in that respect.

2000 UAH for 10 hours is doable with mind-blowing DFK, DATY, her demanding Greek from you, tender BBBJCIMWS, all initiated by a very passionate lovely lady at 6-8 level. Yes, it is my 6 and my 8, perhaps yours is different. And yes, I had 10's for more cash, and having a 6 is not beneath my moral standards.

2. I wouldn't stay at girl's apartment for safety reasons. No way! Your personal things might be cleaned out by her friends while the two of you having a nice dinner outside.

3. I just returned from extended stay in Kiev. Huge thanks to distinguished members on this Forum for help! Please PM only if you have decent reliable Kiev contacts for exchange. Will not post anything on Forum, sorry.

I am going through emotional rehab, may not respond to PMs in a timely manner. Give me a week or so please.

Book your flights, gentlemen. Save enough cash though, - too many beauties to do it on a spare change! Be prepared for games, and if you are strong enough then success is not guaranteed but is quite likely.

For factors increasing the probability of you not getting fucked, please read my prior analysis, something like 10 items on the subject.

Berrys66

10-23-18, 14:41

They lead in fake date sites overflowing with fake profiles. Ukraine Bulgaria and Russia are world leaders in phony sites.

Riina

10-23-18, 14:54

Gents,

I will be visiting the great city of Kiev alone soon in early November and would like to have a wingman. I am too shy to pick up girls at bars and strip clubs alone.No worries, most club girls that are prostitutes are hardened skanks, Just give them "the look". Civilians are not a viable mongering option for most foreigners in Kiev.

Riina

10-23-18, 15:34

Fake as fuck.

http://en.kiev.natashaescort.com/3412/dasha/380635485060

Face: 5.

Body: 2.

Had her send me a recent pic, and it might be, but 100% not the chick in the post. Now I was about 100000% sure the ad was bull shit, but Ii was like fuck it lets see what happens. She wanted 2 k plus taxi. She showed up, and had an OK face, maybe a 5, body was about a 2. So I rejected her, and went back in side. I don't ever give them my apartment number. I always tell them what building, and that I will come down and let them in. In this case it paid off, only thing I spent was time.

So to be very clear, the site natashaescort is full of fake profiles, YMWV.

Now that being said, I will try a few more tomorrow. I have the free time so I figure fuck it.Their's a lot of things you can do to not waste your time. Assuming you're hunting for non agency girls, have them call you or ask for a photo in front of a Kiev landmark. Ask to meet in front of a public place.

DramaFree11

10-23-18, 16:03

Exactly. Maybe the spoiled girls and scams are a result of too many men competing in this game.

All the factors, but the 3 biggest factors:

1. Sex Tourist.

2. Computer.

3. So many girls and guys are leaving to work aboard.

A. This is just not people in the Sex Business. Individuals looking for a better life and willing to work hard to make positive changes for a better life.

Kozerog

10-23-18, 20:22

Their's a lot of things you can do to not waste your time. Assuming you're hunting for non agency girls, have them call you or ask for a photo in front of a Kiev landmark. Ask to meet in front of a public place.Agency or non-agency, no one wants to waste time and taxi fare. And no one has time to screw around with photos of Kyiv landmarks. Simply tell them in clear language that you will send the girl away WITHOUT taxi fare if she does not match photo. If non agency, I'd ask for Viber video chat. Agency that cooperates with request for video chat with girls is clearly evolving past the Soviet "customer is always wrong" mentality and therefore you'll want to stay on good terms with such an agency.

Some girls refuse to show their face. Given that clients can easily film girl with hidden camera, I think such concern for privacy excessive. But whatever. Either refuse to proceed without face photo or take the risk. If taking the risk, it's only fair to pay taxi fare if girl matches photo of body but you don't like face.

AnthonySun1996

10-23-18, 21:14

Kiev is the top 1 scam city in Europe.

In Russia if you order a girl from websites, the chances that the girl doesn't match the profile are much lower. Even the girl is a little different from the photos, the differences are within reasonable variances. In Kiev however you will almost definitely be bait-and-switched.

Too many foreigners just destroy the morals of the country, thanks to visa free policy.

PhotoSlider

10-23-18, 23:16

Agency or non-agency, no one wants to waste time and taxi fare. And no one has time to screw around with photos of Kyiv landmarks. Simply tell them in clear language that you will send the girl away WITHOUT taxi fare if she does not match photo. If non agency, I'd ask for Viber video chat. Agency that cooperates with request for video chat with girls is clearly evolving past the Soviet "customer is always wrong" mentality and therefore you'll want to stay on good terms with such an agency.

Some girls refuse to show their face. Given that clients can easily film girl with hidden camera, I think such concern for privacy excessive. But whatever. Either refuse to proceed without face photo or take the risk. If taking the risk, it's only fair to pay taxi fare if girl matches photo of body but you don't like face.Mostly agree on the above. This is applicable to mamba and other sources, when single girl arrives for check-in.

I simply relied on my somewhat trusted consolidation agency (crowd sourcing) operators to send two attractive classy ladies picked on my behalf from multiple locations. 9 out of 10- the girls were very much fuckable and more. 2000/ HR + 100 taxi fare. Once 1700 was provided and I regretted, but didn't pay.

Upon delivery transport arrival, I went downstairs for an initial assessment inside the cab or next to it on a sidewalk. If I didn't fancy the candidates I gave 100 UAH and sent them back. If they were rude, or late or any other unjustified reason- I sent them back without even a 100 taxi fare. Some objected, to no avail.

About 30% of them did DFK. 30% ended up allowing DATY for free. One did BBBJTCWS without telling her name or discussing anything, she simply smiled and did it. Two more did it after I learned their stage and real names.

I am not young, and not exactly fit. I treat the ladies with respect though, make sure every single one enjoys the encounter, and as a result, make the most out of it for myself.

Kozerog calls me (and some others) overly optimistic, and that's certainly fair.

Bottomline, I do not care about face on the picture that much. Decision is made when taxi arrives. Sometimes both girls are different from what has been ordered, and I do not care)).

At least a dozen girls were extremely good looking and even better as performers.

I do not think me being native speaker was a decisive factor. It did help. More than that did my reputation with consolidation operators.

One gentleman on Forum here followed the advice and invited Mika in August or September, and didn't like her. My mistake for sure! I had Mika in November 2017, and that's too long even for a semi-pro. My operators attempted to provide newbies, and that helped. I did have one ex-GF staying with me for a week, but mostly it was a revolving door. I think chances were skewed in my favor by:

1. Established reputation with agency. Operators felt safe sending the girls to me.

2. Adequate financial resources and realistic expectations.

3. Clear communication on what type of ladies I wanted.

4. Help from Senior Forum members for multiple hours stays.

5. Positive attitude. I was cautious, but didn't think of every girl as a cheating liar. On the contrary, I was respectful to most of my lady visitors, unless they perceived my politeness as a weakness and an invitation to fuck me up.

6. Ability to tell the taxi driver (or selfish girl already in my bed) to fuck off, when it was obvious that nothing good will happen.

7. Juggling multiple candidates for important occasions. Better to say "Sorry I can't tonight" to all of them except one, than jerking off alone, or being forced to call GIA-KEC at the last moment. BTW, I didn't contact GIA-KEC on this visit.

8. Knowing Kiev culture and local language.

DramaFree11

10-24-18, 02:03

Clubs are a big waste of resources and time for normal girls they just not available for foreign guys, as Riina said and I have said many times in the past. The only thing that will work in meeting them on the street or paying.

AntonySun1996

10-24-18, 19:58

Just brought the rate down to 120,000 uah / 5 days through negotiations with agency.

Still overcharged of course, but a good start. You have to learn to bargain, or they will charge you whatever price they want.

Long time no see gents.

I was offered through my local agent that a girl I have met before would accompany me for whole 3 days plus on night at a charge of 120,000 grivnas. The girl I'm talking about is a solid 9 by my standards. Blonde, 5'11', aesthetically sized boobs, long legs, attractive body. 120,000 grv is not a great deal for me, but I just want to know if it is a fair price, or I'm being overcharged.

BTW my previous account had been invalidated for unknown reasons so I registered a new one with the same username. Any ideas why it happened?

Mahew73

10-25-18, 18:09

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Kiev, and your attitude towards the girls. If I could figure out how to send a PM I would ask for your Consolidation agency name. Thanks.

Mostly agree on the above. This is applicable to mamba and other sources, when single girl arrives for check-in.

I simply relied on my somewhat trusted consolidation agency (crowd sourcing) operators to send two attractive classy ladies picked on my behalf from multiple locations. 9 out of 10- the girls were very much fuckable and more. 2000/ HR + 100 taxi fare. Once 1700 was provided and I regretted, but didn't pay.

Upon delivery transport arrival, I went downstairs for an initial assessment inside the cab or next to it on a sidewalk. If I didn't fancy the candidates I gave 100 UAH and sent them back. If they were rude, or late or any other unjustified reason- I sent them back without even a 100 taxi fare. Some objected, to no avail.

About 30% of them did DFK. 30% ended up allowing DATY for free. One did BBBJTCWS without telling her name or discussing anything, she simply smiled and did it. Two more did it after I learned their stage and real names.

I am not young, and not exactly fit. I treat the ladies with respect though, make sure every single one enjoys the encounter, and as a result, make the most out of it for myself.

Kozerog calls me (and some others) overly optimistic, and that's certainly fair.

Bottomline, I do not care about face on the picture that much. Decision is made when taxi arrives. Sometimes both girls are different from what has been ordered, and I do not care)).

At least a dozen girls were extremely good looking and even better as performers.

I do not think me being native speaker was a decisive factor. It did help. More than that did my reputation with consolidation operators.

One gentleman on Forum here followed the advice and invited Mika in August or September, and didn't like her. My mistake for sure! I had Mika in November 2017, and that's too long even for a semi-pro. My operators attempted to provide newbies, and that helped. I did have one ex-GF staying with me for a week, but mostly it was a revolving door. I think chances were skewed in my favor by:

1. Established reputation with agency. Operators felt safe sending the girls to me.

2. Adequate financial resources and realistic expectations.

3. Clear communication on what type of ladies I wanted.

4. Help from Senior Forum members for multiple hours stays.

5. Positive attitude. I was cautious, but didn't think of every girl as a cheating liar. On the contrary, I was respectful to most of my lady visitors, unless they perceived my politeness as a weakness and an invitation to fuck me up.

6. Ability to tell the taxi driver (or selfish girl already in my bed) to fuck off, when it was obvious that nothing good will happen.

7. Juggling multiple candidates for important occasions. Better to say "Sorry I can't tonight" to all of them except one, than jerking off alone, or being forced to call GIA-KEC at the last moment. BTW, I didn't contact GIA-KEC on this visit.

8. Knowing Kiev culture and local language.

Dinheirama

10-25-18, 18:22

AntonySun1996

10-25-18, 19:03

Has any forum member had experience in this hotel? Any reviews regarding its girl-friendliness and safety?

It is located on an island in Dnepro River.

AntonySun1996

10-25-18, 19:45

Mongering in Kiev is not as easy as it used to be of course, but still of a lot of fun compared to other European countries.

Have you done the RTFF? This great forum has helped me a lot to save me from unnecessary disappointments.

Hey guys,

I bought a trip to Kiev thiinking it would be a mongering paradise.

After going through many pages in this forum I realized what I had done.

So there are basically no reliable alternatives to GIA or strip clubs?

All the escort sites are basically filled with fake profiles?

No street hookers whatsoever?

Misterxxx

10-25-18, 21:41

Has any forum member had experience in this hotel? Any reviews regarding its girl-friendliness and safety?

It is located on an island in Dnepro River.They never asked my girl (s) about the passport. It's a good budget solution. But the area is quite dark. And especially in the winter very cold (the river).

Don't ask the reception to call a taxi for you. You will get a special price.

AntonySun1996

10-26-18, 00:20

They never asked my girl (s) about the passport. It's a good budget solution. But the area is quite dark. And especially in the winter very cold (the river).

Don't ask the reception to call a taxi for you. You will get a special price.You mean the girls are not required to register at the reception? Can I take them to my room without any why? No bribes for the security needed?

I don't mind if the surrounding area is dark or not, as long as it is safe, since I will be spending most of the time indoor.

AntonySun1996

10-26-18, 00:57

Is this residence girl-friendly?

PhotoSlider

10-26-18, 01:46

I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of Kiev, and your attitude towards the girls. If I could figure out how to send a PM I would ask for your Consolidation agency name. Thanks.You need to figure out how to pay for membership, then you can send PMs. Then I can share the number.

There was one more factor: I stayed multiple weeks, in fact this visit lasted over a month. I also stayed few times before. Each subsequent visit was longer and longer. I had contacts for 6 ex-GIA girls, and managed to meet only one. She stayed for 2 weeks, but didn't behave up to specs, and ended up leaving abruptly. This proved that as great as GIA (or ex-GIA) is, there are better options in Kiev.

Misterxxx

10-26-18, 08:08

You mean the girls are not required to register at the reception? Can I take them to my room without any why? No bribes for the security needed?

I don't mind if the surrounding area is dark or not, as long as it is safe, since I will be spending most of the time indoor.Hot inside the room. Even in the very cold winter. Nobody asked about the passport. I guess they are happy to have clients during the low season.

There is (was) a strip club on the boat. But no nice girls. The club might be closed (again).

Jojosun

10-27-18, 03:50

Has any forum member had experience in this hotel? Any reviews regarding its girl-friendliness and safety?

It is located on an island in Dnepro River.Hotel reviews are here https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/Hotel_Review-g294474-d1724308-Reviews-Bakkara_Art_Hotel-Kiev.html.

Strip club complete with a Pimp and escorts according to some reviews.

Riina

10-27-18, 15:00

Their use to be a time in Kiev when fall would bring reports from traveling hobbyists. Now, it's just a dead zone here.

Jojosun

10-27-18, 22:51

Their use to be a time in Kiev when fall would bring reports from traveling hobbyists. Now, it's just a dead zone here.A London Cockney Monger would've told you, Fings ain't wot they used to be. LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOKudfonfRU

Jojosun

10-27-18, 22:52

Have a short message that I cannot send you.Back from Prague and the coast is now clear.

Riina

10-29-18, 14:48

Halloween weekend has to be a good time to go out in Kiev. Girls love that shit. I'm eagerly waiting for a brother to share a good time was had out and about.

PhotoSlider

10-29-18, 21:21

Agency or non-agency, no one wants to waste time and taxi fare. And no one has time to screw around with photos of Kyiv landmarks. Simply tell them in clear language that you will send the girl away WITHOUT taxi fare if she does not match photo...The last time I went to a website for ordering a girl was November 2017. Last minute desperate call to GIA in need of a classy escort for a special occasion.

Ever since, it was a single agency filtering and presorting on my behalf first, and then sending photos with parameters via Viber, me heeding their advice, choosing, and then statistical approach working at its best.

1. I looked at the pix, and mostly relied on operator suggesting which 2 girls to pick. Always ordered 2 girls, and 95% of calls kept only 1 or none. The rejected one was sent back with 100 UAH if she was polite and cheerful. Operators knew that it was in their best interest not to waste their, mine and girls' time. If the girl had good attitude, was attractive, classy and healthy, then I kept her, and the other side kept the profits.

2. Agency partners under my consolidation operators did send substitute girls occasionally. Perhaps 10% were swaps. Sometimes operator was telling me that the girl in question was tired after too much work overnight, or moody, or thought too much of herself. And I complied.

Since I didn't really see girls' faces on Viber photos anyway, I was going by their names and height / weight to avoid ordering the same girl twice. I wanted new ones every time I sent out my request)). Operators certainly were lied to about the age. It was as bad as 25 years old called 19. Once 38 MILF has been delivered, and she became my freebie after that. Great performer!

I have been rather tolerant in many ways. As long as the girl was feminine, attractive, classy, polite, and willing, I didn't mind her being full-bodied, or not tall, or not looking like a model. The result most of the time was good solid love making. Quite a few were exceptionally great looking. Perhaps 70-80% tried very hard to please.

One 19 yo had been great in everything. Face, body, breast, but was rather controlling, going through her routine, and I lost my erection because of having too much alcohol, which I confessed to her right there in a disheartened way, because she was like out of the dream and I couldn't perform. What would most of NYC escorts do? Get the cash and GTFO! Not this sweetie. She sat next to me on the bed, gorgeous in her beautiful nakedness, and asked:

- Did I do anything wrong?

- Well, you were somewhat controlling, but not really.

- Are you OK?

- No, I am not. I want to make love to you and I cannot.

- Then let's go to the shower together!

2000+100 UAH for slightly over an hour. I asked operator to bring her to me the next day, and stayed away from alcohol. She was superb and even sweeter the second time.

3. Definitely more than half of my visiting ladies had orgasms, and I do not take the credit for that. Credit goes to Kiev girls loving and definitely needing sex, - lots and lots of sex. I certainly did my part in delivering the goods so to speak, but whoever says equally good escorts can be had in US or UK for a similar price, please think twice. IMHO there are not too many locations on this planet where ladies are so accommodating and sincere when handled properly.

4. What bothered me. Business partners and their drivers lying to my agency operators about estimated time of arrival for invited escort ladies. Couple times because of their lies I quit after being told 2 more minutes, and then 5 more minutes, and they are there, almost. First there were objections from operators, but because I ordered so much (designated valuable customer), they didn't block my phone number. Things might be different, if you are in Kiev for 2-3 days and ask for that agency's procurement help.

Going to Kiev regularly for longer periods of time helps. Not being desperate, in fact telling some of the misbehaving ones to fuck off, definitely increases chances.

5. I never negotiated for extras from these hourly girls. Any attempt to ask for DFK, or BBBJ, etc. By my "tunnel brothers" resulted in jacked up prices. My method was simple:

Get the good girl.

Relax her first: non-rushed shower, good drinks, sometimes even food.

Chat.

Foreplay.

When she gets agitated, 75% of the girls allowed FIV, even after objecting at first. About 30% did DFK. Being gentle and slow, while concentrating on pleasing the girl first, goes a long way in having great sex for yourself.

I had one morning with 3 girls one after another, and all 3 allowed DATY for free without any prior discussions. The last one behaved somewhat confused after it was all over. She was 1m80, great body, and over 28. So she asked:

- Do you order girls often?

- Well, I do once in awhile. Why?

- Then you should know there's an extra charge for cunnilingus.

- Well, I do not take money from ladies.

- ?

- Didn't you like it?

- Yes I did.

- Are you going to complain about my behavior at the base?

- I will warn the girls.

So, I asked operator not to bring girls from that location for a few days.

6. About 20-30% of girls gave me their direct phone numbers, and dated me later. Two stayed overnight for not so much. This was my mamba substitute. About 7-10 girls were much taller than me, especially with heels. I didn't mind going out. I am about average decent height, but not tall. Having them in my hands in doggie required some adjustments.

7. I also ordered for 4-6-10 hour sessions from other agency courtesy of contacts exchange with Forum members. It was more money, and mostly it was good.

8. To be fair, more than half of Forum members who tired my consolidation agency, didn't like it for one reason or the other. I guess I have a special relationship with them.

In conclusion to this "flow of conscience" I can simply say that Kiev girls rock!

PhotoSlider

10-29-18, 21:35

I would not waste too much time on the Night Clubs, but here my list.

...snip...

7. Avalon OK, some night, you need to have very low expectations. I read it was closed, but not sure.

There are some new clubs, but again, you will end of paying for girls one way or another, chance to pulling Freebies slim to none. The Girl-Ratio is just too bad now days. Sorry, the internet lies.Where did you read that Avalon is closed?

When was the last time you were in Kiev? 2-3 years ago?

How can you create a list of Clubs in Kiev and pretend to provide advise for newbies here on anything related to Kiev, when all your info is based on hear-say and contempt for anything in Ukraine?

For Forum members: Avalon is alive and more than well after 20 years in business, and IMO keeps getting better with every year! I do not see any reason for it getting closed. In fact as a restaurant I like it much better than anything in Arena. My top 10 favorite in Kiev. It is not exactly a pick up place though. I go there with my new dates to relax and have great time. I am also acquainted with all Avalon hostesses, director of the first floor, and general manger of the whole complex, that includes spa, karaoke, fitness and more. Had a very nice dinner there a week ago. Introduced one distinguished Forum member to it few weeks ago, and we had an amazing conversation. Thanks to Jackson again!

Cheers!

The GreenHorn

10-30-18, 00:15

Gents,

I will be visiting the great city of Kiev alone soon in early November and would like to have a wingman. I am too shy to pick up girls at bars and strip clubs alone.I'm going to be there 01-02 Nov. Want to meet up. Send me a PM.

DramaFree11

10-30-18, 03:10

Great advice and thanks for the kind words. Telling guys to use GIA and pay $200 an hour or more in Kiev, to bang 6's, Great Advice. Even better words of wisdom about Avalon, this place is empty club and to meet very low end girls 4-6's, bottom of the barrel, Great idea. Yes the Rest, is nice, but empty and expensive. Avalon was good 10 years ago, but now, forget about it.

There is 2 of us and trust me our post post are much closer to reality then this fantasy world you guys live in. Flying across the world to bang average girls at crazy prices, great advise. You can go to many different destinations where you can bang actually models for this $200-300, for multiple hours, but this is real world and does not apply to you guys. If I was still hanging out in Kiev, I would be meeting 5-6's. Now I am meeting 7-8, for less money and longer sessions, but I guess I do not know what I am doing..So all this talk of old days and inflated prices is ridiculous because guess what? Inflation is a global phenomenon. Deal with it. If you don't have the cash then work harder or tough luck. Even at the inflated prices it's still way cheaper than in the US so I'm not going to complain.

Jojosun

10-31-18, 00:45

A London Cockney Monger would've told you, Fings ain't wot they used to be. LOL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOKudfonfRUIn my mind the Best days in Kiev were on my second trip there during The Flu epedemic https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/health-ministry-swine-flu-epidemic-in-ukraine-51521.html when expats were flying out of Kiev and very, very mongers in town.

As for prices then, just fished out this interesting. Report of distinction number 5770 dated /11/18/ 2009 listing prices there at the time." Some words.

Has bin a while that I visited this site. Somehow got out of my mind.

Due to my work I have bin travelling to Ukraine about 160 times since summer 2002. I counted the stamps in my passports. Though the frequency of travelling has reduced the last 2 years I still have chance to travel regular.

I learned a lot about the country, the language, the way of handling business and the way pros and "non-pros" (mostly students) work.

Prices for renting apartments went up the last 5 years and are falling down rapidly the last 6 months. The same counts for the buying prices for apartments, houses, land, food in restaurants and of course women.

Since about a week or two I am visiting this site frequently again! Astonished to see that still many forum members from the past are still here. So "Hi" to all who remember me or with whom I had a drink in one of the Ukraine cities.

Also there are a lot of new members of course. I read back a few months of posts and I was kinda surprised. I contacted Hunter for get a contact detail, but I am still waiting:.).

Here my 2 euro in short about Kiev:

- It is impossible to get a RP girl for $125.

- The price for "I look for sponsor" girls in flirt / mamba or other starts at about 450 grivna up to.

- For 450 grivna you not get a beauty!

- you are lucky when you get a beauty starting at 800.

- The most pictures on the pink pages are fake! Especially when the price is lower then 800 grivna per hour"

At that time it was 1 US $=8 Uah. Now you do the maths these days 9 years later now there's no River Palace in Town.

Prices for pros and agencies apart from GIa and Rio.

https://top-modals.com/?h=mobi

My benchmark for prices in Kiev is the same as it was back in 2009 ,US $ 100 a session usually an hour for a hottie who would be at least twice that price in London or Houston.

That said, once I land in Kiev I don't do thrift there and really enjoy myself in the company of my UA girl and friends.

TinyHippo

10-31-18, 05:12

Has any forum member had experience in this hotel? Any reviews regarding its girl-friendliness and safety?

It is located on an island in Dnepro River.The hotel is nice and is very girl friendly. They even have a strip club in the cellar of the boat hotel. Not much to see there, but it says what type of hotel it is.

The two negatives are that taxis to the hotel will be expensive for the girls and there is literally nothing by the hotel. No restaurants. Nothing. Hydropark metro stop is a giant shithole.

Guntherus

10-31-18, 09:34

Back from Prague and the coast is now clear.Nice to see you are back, Jojosun.

Jojosun

10-31-18, 12:19

Nice to see you are back, Jojosun.Thank you RB.

DramaFree11

10-31-18, 18:14

[Deleted by Admin] A little about myself I lived in Kiev twice and have been there over 50 times, so I know much more then you think. I have also lived in Colombia, Mexico and Russia. I have probably forgot more then the P. Slider will ever know about Kiev, I real question his judgement and advice, it is just flat wrong most of the time. I stopped going, because it became very boring, lies, scams, and I was tired of watching my friends get scammed and taken advantage of. This is left out in all his posts, never mentioned and other so called experts never post about this. . Most of my old friends stopped going because it was so bad. I have never pretend that I am there now, why no need, but I do not need to be there to tell place are empty. They were empty the last times I was there and I am sure nothing has changed. If anything, talking with my friends it is even worse now.

[Deleted by Admin]

Avalon was terrible, I would never advise anyone to go there. As I mentioned Rest, is beautiful, again nobody goes, of course the manager will be nice you are the only one in the whole place. Decent places were there are actually people are The Bar and C. Club. The Bar is much nicer clientele, both places are average, so do not get your hopes up.

The only way to be successful in Kiev is to meet girls on the street. You can get girls from $75-100 This has been posted numerous posts.

PhotoSlider

10-31-18, 21:10

Hey guys,

I bought a trip to Kiev thiinking it would be a mongering paradise.

After going through many pages in this forum I realized what I had done.

So there are basically no reliable alternatives to GIA or strip clubs?

All the escort sites are basically filled with fake profiles?

No street hookers whatsoever?Call girls web-sites are OK for jerking off at home, but I wouldn't rely on any of them for deciding which ladies to pick for right now. Even GIA-KEC could be slightly off from reality. Kiev market is too dynamic, girls come and go. Some are available for few hours, then go to classes at the University, or fly out to Sharm-el-Sheikh for the weekend, or take a bus to give hard earned cash to grandma and baby brother, etc. Web-site admin cannot catch up with updates, even if the back-end database is managed through the automated scripts.

In the Era of Messengers well seasoned travelers trust Viber and such for casting a net into the shiny waters of nowadays (and nights, and early mornings), and request the pix and parameters of those available right now. The better approach is to have a list of trusted contacts, and again contact them through Viber, WhatsApp, Telegram or Instagram. Instagram is for individuals, definitely not for agencies.

Since I wanted new girl every other morning around 6:30-7 am, and sometimes another one soon after she departed)) I had an operator sending me the pix via Viber. Correlation with reality was about 80-90%. Sometimes it was difficult to decide which one to take, as they were so beautiful. Most of the deliveries had one attractive girl, and the other one rude, or tired after a sleepless night, or not liking me.

3 or 4 times it was not easy to let the second girl go with 100 UAH taxi fare, because I liked them both. So I told my operator to apologize on my behalf, and bring her next time.

2-3 times they brought the same girl few days later, because I lost the count and didn't remember them anymore or some of them heard my address and volunteered to come)) That made the rejection difficult, and as much as I had the rule of having the new girl every time, twice I repeated out of respect, and they didn't impress on the second try. So the third time it happened, I rejected without remorse and went with a gorgeous blonde with amazingly made fake glued (or whatever it's called) eye-lashes with sparkling crystals in the corners and super attitude. The reject was standing outside on the sidewalk, not believing her own eyes, and Avalon perimeter security watched the whole action unfolding and had a wide smile. Me and him knew each other. Later I spoke to the guy, and he said that he's been a witness to a lot of stories and events.

Once after rejecting both girls in my first morning delivery (they were too vulgar), then keeping one from the second delivery, I spent an hour, sent her out, and went for breakfast with my GF next door at Avalon. She later told me that Klitschko, the City Mayor and Heavyweight World Champion sat behind my back, watching her, and talking to his bodyguard (like he really needed one! Then GF stayed a little longer, and I happened to leave the place together with Klitschko and his entourage. He is so tall, and at 47 is very fit. I was smart enough to keep my silence.

Anyway, with hourly call girls pix I do the opposite. After departing from Kiev, I search for them and sometimes find. Here are two Polinas, one was rather short Cinderella. Both were unmatched performers. And pictures are definitely not fake:

https://kievlady.com/modeli/207801-polina/

https://kievlady.com/modeli/207537-polina/

I paid 2000+100 for each one. As you can see, there was a markup, but not having time for casting, I do not mind. And there are lots of girls that I had, and later saw on that site. I wouldn't pick any of them few months later, after being fucked by dozens and dozens of you, dear Forum readers.

Again, I wouldn't simply browse that website in the hope of finding someone incomparable. Operator either finds a new one, or brings a girl that has good reputation and is just fresh after good sleep. There were few mistakes here and there, but I steered relentlessly. One morning I was redirected to a new operator in the call center, that after a fuck-up said "You are not my permanent customer". I waited about an hour for a change of guard at 10 am and things were fixed.

So, Web lies because it is difficult to catch up. It is like herding cats.

Messengers are OK, when relationship with operators is established.

YMMV if you are on a short trip, or do not have resources. I wouldn't say I paid that much for each girl, but at 2000+100 a shot, it adds up rather quickly.

My 2 UAH hryvnas.

Jojosun

11-01-18, 03:55

Hey guys,

No street hookers whatsoever?Where did you get this info from?

I posted on the name of the street few years ago but can't remember the name, its buried in one of my posts.

Found it on the way back by Taxi from Tixi Omut strip club on the other side of the Dnipro River. I casually asked the young driver, if there were any streets with hookers just out of curiosity.

He made a detour and sure enough they were there. I am sure everyone would succeed there and certainly it wouldn't cost $75 to /$100.

Now watch the movie. LOL.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lYGZy7iVJUI

SonnySanDiego

11-01-18, 05:00

Good day everyone. I will land in Kiev this a Sunday for a 5 day work trip. I am 33 reasonably good looking from San Diego, CA. My language skills for where I am going are limited at best. It would seem based on recent reports things in Kiev are not the wonderful utopia I have been told by others but I have to think there is still fun to be had. If native would be so kind to just throw a couple places, tips or even ideas my way it would be greatly appreciated. I will be staying st the 11 mirrors hotel. Thanks in advance.

MagicSheep74

11-01-18, 09:16

I fully respect all opinions on this forum, But I honestly think you're wrong here as it's obvious to me they are not the same Person. Just read previous posts and you get the picture.I am aware that negative posters like myself, when it comes to Kiev are becoming increasingly unpopular. So I would like to add some positive comments in my final message on the Kiev thread, before I settle down to normal life with my Ukrainian born girlfriend elsewhere.

I am no expert on Kiev, so please base your decision on whether or not to travel to Ukraine, to the experts that frequently post here. One point to add though. I have a long history of worldwide travel, so I am an expert in mongering, and I am an expert in dating beautiful women. So my standards might differs from others, but here are my positive's before I depart.

1. I found Kiev very cheap, so I had great enjoyment staying at a good hotel - 11 Mirrors Design Hotel, and eating in quality restaurants at a very reasonable cost.

2. The city was very easy to navigate.

3. Asking regular girls out on a date was mostly met with a positive response. I dated 2 girls using this approach. One from the hotel, one from tinder. Its was fun, but the language barrier was really difficult.

4. Rio. Was great fun. I was treated well and I had a good time back at my hotel next door with one of the ladies. She was a solid 7/10 , pricey, but no hardship.

5. Gia, much like Rio was also satisfactory. Girl arrived promptly and even though her pictures were heavily photoshopped, I would still rate her a 7/10.

6. Almost went back to a solid 9/10 for a club in that Arena complex -/ can't remember the name of the club. She was an absolute stunner, but the language barrier was such a hassle would could not get past negotiations. It was a shame, but I speak no Russian and she spoke no English. The chemistry was definitely there as went danced and drank the night together, but we simply could not communicate at all.

So there are my positive's. My negative's have already been covered in previous posts.

There are much better destination's to practice our hobby in Europe and Worldwide, but don't let that put you off. Please feel free to PM for exact location's and contact information of more beautiful providers of sex for cash than you will obtain in Kiev.

I'll leave with a picture of myself and my Ukrainian stunner. Luckily for me, she has Ukrainian parents, hence Ukrainian genetics, but she was brought up in another country and in-turn has a full time job, doesn't believe men are human ATM's and isn't so likely to scam me at any given moment.

I hope you enjoyed my more positive post.

Take care. Magicsheep.

BigBangLover

11-01-18, 13:22

Hello friends,

I have a upcoming trip to Kiev this weekend.

I have not been in Kiev for about 2 years.

Regarding changing scene, do you have some new tips for good bars, restaurants, clubs?

From my previous visit, I know Caribbean Club, Buddha Bar and the Arena area with "The Bar".

Regarding Avalon, when reading here in forum, restaurant seems fine for relaxed chilling with a new date, but not much for picking classy semi-pros.

Then I read here Shooters very bad, Famous worth on weekends.

Thanks for your Infos.

AntonySun1996

11-01-18, 17:03

Want to meet up? I live in city centre near the parliament.

PhotoSlider

11-01-18, 17:23

You wanted Fall reports? Let me continue spoon-feeding.

Here is 19 years old Masha. She indeed is 19. She is a real gymnast. Some of the positions she took I never ever tried in my life before seeing Masha:

https://kievlady.com/modeli/200578-masha/

Pictures aren't fake. They are Photoshopped a little to make her slightly more marketable. She is 1m75 and 75 kg- meaning she is not skinny, but she is athletic and extremely feminine. She started kissing few minutes after walking into my apartment while still in the kitchen, and never stopped. DFK, DATY, very passionate love making. No Greek, and definitely no BBBJ.

Couple weeks later I invited her for my friend, and he didn't complain, but wasn't exactly impressed. Operator also said that she started acting up a little. Indeed while the four of us had a getting-to-know chit-chat in the kitchen, she behaved in a rather provocative aggressive manner. Maybe she got tired or maybe she started thinking too much of herself. Anyway, my friend said that in the bed she was good. Not excellent, but good.

My experience with her was outstanding. Maybe that was because she was new / newer at that point, earlier in her "career".

Somehow, English and even Ukrainian versions of the above web-site do not have pictures, only Russian. Go figure!

PhotoSlider

11-01-18, 17:26

I fully respect all opinions on this forum, But I honestly think you're wrong here as it's obvious to me they are not the same Person. Just read previous posts and you get the picture.Certainly 2 separate individuals. Especially if the other suspect is Riina. For the record. I have nothing against Riina. In fact, his advice to buy L'Occitane hand creams of different flavors as small give-away presents for ladies has been the most valuable.

DramaFree11

11-01-18, 18:32

Kozerog you are correct, And very good advice as well. I should not ever argue with people, I do not do this in my daily life or in my business, I will try and do a better job and be more diplomatic. I do you want everyone to succeed even in Kiev, but when people post I think it's important that they do deal more in the reality instead of exaggerating. Again you're hundred percent correct and I'll try and be more diplomatic. I want to keep this post positive, thank you.

Riina

11-01-18, 20:29

Certainly 2 separate individuals. Especially if the other suspect is Riina. For the record. I have nothing against Riina. In fact, his advice to buy L'Occitane hand creams of different flavors as small give-away presents for ladies has been the most valuable)).Thanks PhotoSlider. I very much respect your reports which refer to prostitutes.

Jojosun

11-01-18, 22:15

Where did you get this info from?

I posted on the name of the street few years ago but can't remember the name, its buried in one of my posts.

Found it on the way back by Taxi from Tixi Omut strip club on the other side of the Dnipro River. I casually asked the young driver, if there were any streets with hookers just out of curiosity.

He made a detour and sure enough they were there. I am sure everyone would succeed there and certainly it wouldn't cost $75 to /$100.

Now watch the movie. LOL.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lYGZy7iVJUIChecked the name of the street with my Kiev taxi driver, Brovarskyi avenue on the left bank as well as Victory square.

When you drive out of the town after 10 pm. You need to drive towards Zhytomir on E40 and after about 5 km out of Kiev, you will see street hookers standing by the street.

In the centre Mandarin plaza and the area around Kreschatick, more hookers summer time but more expensive than the above locations according to my driver who is surprised that foreigners are looking for them.

According to UA statistics, there are about 9 thousand of street hookers working the streets of Kiev. Can't post the link for this figures data on this thread.

AntonySun1996

11-01-18, 22:55

PhotoSlider

11-02-18, 02:06

Thanks PhotoSlider. I very much respect your reports which refer to prostitutes.Another one for you then:

https://kievlady.com/modeli/207850-ruslana/

Ordered her after midnight. Tired and drunk. Literally asked the operator:

- Could you please get me the girl that would dance the minuet? Afraid I am not fit to perform classic at the moment.

- You understand that hourly rate will not change?

- Absolutely.

Then Ruslana arrived. What a doll! I could see right away she was qualified and ready to start. And she did. And 10 minutes later I put her in a doggie position like I wasn't the one having doubts less than an hour ago. She was visibly surprised, but didn't object.

Her photos aren't fake. I relied on my operator to bring her as a potentially good performer, not a rip-off.

It was CBJ, as far as I remember, she is only 1 m63- Little Thumbelina, and again. What a doll!

TinyHippo

11-02-18, 13:16

The golden days of Kiev have gone and scams are rising. This is true. But from my personal global mongering experience I am still confident to say Kiev is one of the best places in regards of mongering. Having had some bad experience in Kiev, I have gradually started to understand the game rules here and to know what to do and what to avoid.

Yes, Kiev is no longer heaven as it used to be, but where is? Rio? Thailand? They are all not as what they used to be. Ukraine's economy is in general recovering, but it is still one of the poorest countries in Europe, which means mongering there will still be of a lot fun.I'm happy someone is still positive on Kiiv. It is still a great mongering place for me. I can't think of a place with more 18-24 yo white Europeans willing to have sex for 100€ for two hours. I also have had good experience dating Ukrainians 15-20 yo younger than me without a problem. So, if you like skinny, white Europeans Ukraine is still the place to be. People talk about German FKKs like their are heaven, but to me they are terrible. I am 40 yo and have no desire to meet well worn 30-35 yo pros in a smokey room filled surrounded by 50 guys in robes at an FKK.

Jojosun

11-02-18, 13:29

The golden days of Kiev have gone

Yes, Kiev is no longer heaven as it used to be.Which begs the question, when were the Golden days and when was was Kiev Heaven?

Jojosun

11-02-18, 13:35

Another one for you then:

https://kievlady.com/modeli/207850-ruslana/

Ordered her after midnight. Tired and drunk. Literally asked the operator:

- Could you please get me the girl that would dance the minuet? Afraid I am not fit to perform classic at the moment.

- You understand that hourly rate will not change?

- Absolutely.

Then Ruslana arrived. What a doll! I could see right away she was qualified and ready to start. And she did. And 10 minutes later I put her in a doggie position like I wasn't the one having doubts less than an hour ago. She was visibly surprised, but didn't object.

Her photos aren't fake. I relied on my operator to bring her as a potentially good performer, not a rip-off.

It was CBJ, as far as I remember, she is only 1 m63- Little Thumbelina, and again. What a doll!Did you follow Rina's advise and give her L'Occitane hand creams of different flavors as small give-away present?

PhotoSlider

11-02-18, 16:53

...Regarding Avalon, when reading here in forum, restaurant seems fine for relaxed chilling with a new date, but not much for picking classy semi-pros...Correct, Avalon is definitely not for pick up.

Others may add, but here is more info about it. Not much about girls here, so please feel free to skip.

Avalon has 6 floors, including karaoke, fitness, haircut, beauty salon and more. First floor is 24 x 7 restaurant. Smoking / non-smoking areas. Bar. Very good food, superb choice of drinks, and impeccable service. There are more expensive venues in Kiev, but Avalon is not cheap. It can get even more expensive if beluga caviar and Victoria Beckham's favorite vine at $300 a bottle is ordered.

6th floor is Terrace on the roof with great view of the city. Day or night. Depending on the time of the year it may get open at 13:00 or 16:00.

I like people watching at Avalon Terrace better than at Arena, more precisely girls watching. With or without an escort it is my favorite past time. Discussing ladies entering and leaving is so much fun, especially together with my GF. Sometimes I bring laptop and tablet to work there. Quite often foreign and local businessmen and women or whole delegations have dinners, discussing their deals. Few tables away a group of 3-5 well off Turkish or US or European or Ukrainian gentlemen may have 2-3 ladies with them. Middle aged men, younger ladies, kissing or simply relaxing with hookah and coffee in the wee hours of the morning after a long night partying somewhere else.

I had once my hand covered by a cloth napkin, and placed between the thighs of long legged scantily clad young lady that I just met 30 minutes ago at my apartment. She enjoyed the atmosphere and didn't mind at all. Waiting staff has seen it all, and was totally cool taking our order. Nobody interferes. Everybody minds their own business.

During peak times, especially on Friday nights, both 1st and 6th floor may get very busy. Once in a while I give the hostess 100-200 UAH to sit at one of my favorite tables with the view of Opera or Cathedral, especially if they appear reserved.

I very much like how the chef arranges the food. Sushi is good, Ukrainian food is authentic with a fusion twist. Try Chicken Kiev there. With 2 ladies after couple hours with decent food and lots of drinks, I paid something like $150-200. As a frequent regular I have a discount card 15%off.

Distinctive benefit is the fact that they would make anything you want at any time of the day or night. Steak at 3 am while pulling through the night Vegas style, or healthy breakfast at 5:30 am when I am an early riser, or solid offering during the normal business office hours. Not too many places do that in Kiev.

There is a face and dress control, and two years ago I was not allowed to enter after being drunk at the Opera. Security is outsourced, and they took pride in rejecting my lame efforts at bribing them. These days I get in wearing jeans, jogging shoes and a T-shirt. Security has a smile or a smirk on their faces, and doesn't scan for weapons on me anymore.

More to the point:

1. I had some light food with a respected Forum member about a month ago at Avalon Terrace upstairs. And there were ladies at the both tables next to us. My hobby partner liked what looked like a 28-35 old very classy lady and maybe a 19 years old teenager girl next to her. I fancied the two right behind him and approached them, asking out in a polite manner with tickets to Theater and open phone in my hand. Girls were obviously friends, one scanned my appearance and graciously rejected, without a frown, but leaving no chance. The other one was visibly interested, but didn't dare in the presence of her cock-blocking classmate. Normally I would write my number on a banknote or something, but I had other options that night. This was done purely for the sake of trying.

2. Another time, I had no candidates for going to Theater yet, and asked the hostess at the Avalon Terrace what are my chances to find somebody. She considered what to say for a few seconds, and then answered:

- We do not typically see this happening here.

- I know. Usually I arrive already with a lady.

- Sometimes you'll see a girl or two sitting at the bar, and you may ask those.

And in the last two years dining regularly at Avalon I haven't seen any girls sitting at the bar stools.

3. Another time I was going up from a restroom and had the audacity to invite the beauty to join me later. She declined, stating she is married. I asked if her husband is upstairs, and that was the end of the discussion.

4. And yet another time 3 years ago we came with my local Kiev friend without concubines, and there were no places available. Waiter offered us to join a company of two dressed and made-up girls already sitting by the table on sofas. We declined and went for the bar. In 10 minutes hostess found a table for us.

Maybe I do not know something and more is happening there, but IMO Avalon is positioned as a safe place for having a great time. For me personally it is a perfect spot for a first date to dispel girl's doubts before seducing her. Some girls mistakenly think of it as a slutty establishment and at first hesitate, but then are happy to go there again and again.

Enough said. See for yourself by visiting or online:

http://avalon.ua/

PhotoSlider

11-02-18, 19:59

Did you follow Rina's advise and give her L'Occitane hand creams of different flavors as small give-away present?As US President Bill Clinton said about his somewhat similar encounter with Monica Lewinsky:

- I have no recollection, your Honour.

And unlike Bill, I honestly don't remember.

1. Most likely I did not give it to Ruslana, even though she more than deserved it. Prizes were given away not exactly based on merit, but rather on me remembering to give them away when the young lady was exceptional. Quite often I had regrets realizing I forgot about those hand creams only after the girl already departed. One of my favorites, tall and highly intelligent sweetie chose two of those gifts, I insisted on her taking more, and she refused in the most stylish manner.

2. Girls did their share of leaving their own "gifts" for me: hairbands and ties, cigarette lighters, underwear, evening dress, shoes, and the funniest one was when the new visitor found lubricant in the folds of my blanket, and started laughing saying:

- This is not mine. I have different brand. Someone before me forgot this)).

- Would you like to take it? I have two more in the drawer.

- Sure! Why not?

3. Another one was sunglasses next to my corporate computer. I had no idea who left them and could ask few of acquaintances without any threat of repercussions and got two responses:

- No, these are too cheap for me!

- No, I do not wear sunglasses at all.

Then the primary suspect arrived from a 10-14 hours bus trip to her relatives and claimed them.

4. Separately, a MILF tried to control me, saying:

- I see long black hair in your bathtub. They are not mine.

- No, they are not.

- You are not quite prepared for my visit.

- Right.

- I know, as a man you need variety. But could you please ensure that when I visit, there are no signs of other women in your residence?

- I certainly respect your desires. Thank you for explaining this.

And I tried to invite her after my maid cleaned up the place, which was every 4-5 days. Then she started complaining about my maid's quality of service.

I kept the maid, and retired the MILF. Multi-tasking and time-sharing 18-21 years old girls have so much less psychological burden!

5. Another funny episode was when my LT GF arrived with her 4 year old child, and while we were sitting on the sofa in the living room, that child found a wrapper from a condom used by my friend on this very sofa the previous night, because at the time I monopolized the only bedroom in the apartment, and he performed in the open. GF saw this minor incident and smiled, I was quick to prevent any further mischief.

Kiev girls call them "candy wrappers" - fantiki.

Travv

11-02-18, 21:20

The San Diego Utopia is 15 minutes away in Tijuana! But, Kiev is great. Cheap food and hotels and plenty of sights. Be sure to visit the WWII museum, check with your hotel for a guide or tour of the city. I went on a group tour of Kiev last year then took off on my own for a few days. The thing about a group tour is the guide and some other tourists spoke Russian and took me with them to the parties and clubs; felt safer with the local Russian criminal types in black leather jackets and shaved heads were at the nightclubs when I was with others. I'm from San Diego too and I had trouble reading street signs and metro stops so the Russian speaking tourists helped a lot here. Suggestion: get a GPS device so you do not get lost. A local cell phone so you can communicate with girls you meet. Also, pay for 2 persons in your room. The hotel security was hassling me until I told them I paid for a 2 person room, when I had guests visit. Then they backed off after they checked and found I had paid.

Good day everyone. I will land in Kiev this a Sunday for a 5 day work trip. I am 33 reasonably good looking from San Diego, CA. My language skills for where I am going are limited at best. It would seem based on recent reports things in Kiev are not the wonderful utopia I have been told by others but I have to think there is still fun to be had. If native would be so kind to just throw a couple places, tips or even ideas my way it would be greatly appreciated. I will be staying st the 11 mirrors hotel. Thanks in advance.

Guntherus

11-02-18, 21:59

GuyThatLikesStuf

11-02-18, 22:26

Sweeet

11-02-18, 22:35

What are the best strip clubs to take a girlfriend for an evening and then takeout? Alternatively, what's a good pickup bar for a couple for the same purpose?

PhotoSlider

11-02-18, 22:35

Let me confirm everything Photoslider writes about Avalon restaurant, in winter I found no terrace, it's probably closed due to cold climate. There is another restaurant downtown with the same owner, service is even better but prices are lower. This is Mocco in the Kreshatik Passage. No vested interests! Nice option when you want to impress the girl. English menu.Correct. Terrace has two levels. Open one above the 6th floor level, as can be seen on this picture:

http://avalon.ua/en/terrace

It is sort of like 7th floor, but no elevator access. There is a stairway leading there, and even during the winter, if you ask the management nicely, and security doesn't object, you can get out and up for a great view of the city, especially at night.

The main terrace level at the 6th floor has 2 sections separated by the glass wall. One is exposed to the elements and is working through the summer, plus most of September. The other section is protected, heated and still is rather large. I used it last November 2017 many times. In that case access is through the elevator on the 5th floor and stairway up.

Never visited Mocco, but must be equally good. Same ownership also has Mishki Fashion boutique, and more.

Terrace and downstairs restaurant have English menu, waiting staff speaks well enough.

Cars parked outside awaiting models exiting from fitness and spa- a whole separate story. Custom Ferrari, Bentley, Austin Martin, variety or MB Brabus and top level BMWs. Nowhere else have I seen such a concentration of wealth. Perhaps Atlanta may compete courtesy of music, sport and drug industries.

Just like RB, I have no vested interest. Simply sharing my admiration.

I do not know good hunting clubs in Kiev. Somehow that sport doesn't attract me. Crosswalk from University main entrance towards the park seems right. I did one attempt, and almost succeeded. Guess I need to get in shape and dress a little better.

PhotoSlider

11-02-18, 22:41

Is the Disco in Avalon gone? I was last there in 2014 and it was not a problem to find friends.AFAIK nobody dances there now. They do play very good Club House music with professional DJ, but no dancing observed. Maybe I was there at the wrong time? RB, have you seen any?

Other upscale locations are restaurant Matisse and Premier Palace. The Latter has also multiple venues, very expensive, and the best Japanese food in the whole City of Kiev. Rooftop at the Premier is super cool! There is also strip club inside Premier. Not sure how good it is.

Rio strip is across the street from Avalon. Google maps says it's a 2 minutes walk on foot.

TinyHippo

11-02-18, 23:10

Which begs the question, when were the Golden days and when was was Kiev Heaven?When they were younger, skinnier, had more hair. Unless you were fluent in Russian 15 years ago with Western European pockets, there never was a Golden era in Ukraine. Kyiv girls are speaking a lot more English now and thank god for Instagram. It makes those girls crave iPhones and Michael Kors bags and watches. Which is where we step in.

PhotoSlider

11-03-18, 01:39

Clean up, man!

Guntherus

11-03-18, 12:33

... Terrace has two levels. Open one above the 6th floor level, as can be seen on this picture:

http://avalon.ua/en/terrace.Exactly what I was looking for. But didn't find. Should have asked. But anyway, the nights were cold in October and January. Another option is the Hilton hotel, it has a nice bar, nice clientele with a modest menu for food. - The Avalon dance club on two floors I used to like so much, always closed on weekdays, on a weekend they said private karaoke party.

PhotoSlider

11-03-18, 13:40

Exactly what I was looking for. But didn't find. Should have asked. But anyway, the nights were cold in October and January. Another option is the Hilton hotel, it has a nice bar, nice clientele with a modest menu for food. - The Avalon dance club on two floors I used to like so much, always closed on weekdays, on a weekend they said private karaoke party.In the background of that picture you can see Kiev Mayor's Klitschko penthouse. It is on the corner with a cupola or dome-shaped architectural excesses on his top floor. Rio strip club is in the same building. 11 Mirrors another 2 minutes walk away.

When I met my current GF 4+ years ago, she used to work in the Hilton Lobby Bar. And not as a bartender. There is a decent restaurant there as well as a summer terrace:

https://www3.hilton.com/en/hotels/ukraine/hilton-kyiv-KBPHIHI/dining/index.html

I met the Hilton chief cook, the Georgian guy at pedicure, while I was taking care of my own beauty needs)) he spoke his native language. These days there's a lot of Caucasian Georgians in Kiev, - wine, very good new restaurants and cafe, music and dance performers, - great people!

This past October 2018 was record warm, and still after one cold week in September Avalon removed all the furniture from the 7th floor open space.

I never went to their karaoke, must be for corporate team building and such. I did see attractive girls running in and out 2nd floor direction.

Decent food places are abundant in Kiev. Pick up places another story.

Perhaps the easiest way to identify those pickup places would be to browse through Instagram pages of hunting girls with specific hashtags. I see ex-GF that I retired 2 years ago (because she became jaded and too demanding, less sincere while making love), that she used to go to DiLux, Avalon, Buddha Bar, Black Market, Alaska, American House, Atlas. The list is endless. These days I would call her a Pro in the process of ongoing hardening. Hence my lack of interest. I am almost scared to meet her now. Not sure if those layers of thick skin can be peeled to reveal the girl that I was in love with starting from the second date. She doesn't go to Caribbean, hence it is not as lucrative, not upscale enough. Make your own conclusions.

On a separate note if you are fit enough and not shy, there is a great pickup place in the summer:

http://citybeach.kiev.ua/en/

Please enjoy the pix and do forgive my belated marketing.

Tp273

11-03-18, 14:21

I'm happy someone is still positive on Kiiv. It is still a great mongering place for me. I can't think of a place with more 18-24 yo white Europeans willing to have sex for 100 for two hours. I also have had good experience dating Ukrainians 15-20 yo younger than me without a problem. So, if you like skinny, white Europeans Ukraine is still the place to be. People talk about German FKKs like their are heaven, but to me they are terrible. I am 40 yo and have no desire to meet well worn 30-35 yo pros in a smokey room filled surrounded by 50 guys in robes at an FKK.I visited the Ukraine twice and Yes the women there are beautiful but getting to them takes some work. In the larger FKK clubs in Germany, especially in the Dusseldorf area I had GFE sessions with hot white European women some 50 years younger than me by simply walking up to them and asking. Also no bait & switch to worry about there! If they ever opened a real FKK in the Ukraine I would have to sell everything I have and move there but for now it's the FKK's for me.

Riina

11-03-18, 15:02

I visited the Ukraine twice and Yes the women there are beautiful but getting to them takes some work. In the larger FKK clubs in Germany, especially in the Dusseldorf area I had GFE sessions with hot white European women some 50 years younger than me by simply walking up to them and asking. Also no bait & switch to worry about there! If they ever opened a real FKK in the Ukraine I would have to sell everything I have and move there but for now it's the FKK's for me.Here in Chicago, we have what I consider to be a similar comparison between FKK and Ukraine. On one hand, we have a brothel with hardened prostitutes from Poland very similar to the girls in FKK. I'm not a fan, the girls are void of feelings and emotions. Even though their services would be classified as GFE, it feels like sex with a robot. And then we have a Ukrainian pimp that recruits Russian and Ukrainian girls that live locally. These girls tend to have more limits like CBJ, but they feel like real girlfriends. Almost all are in their twenties and have a real incentive to make sure good customers repeat.

I've been to FKK's and plan never to return. Hunting for semipros in Ukraine, I think about that everyday. Just a matter of finding the time.

Guntherus

11-04-18, 00:36

I've enjoyed looking at photos from citybeach, but I'm now north of fifty and too modest to go there myself. Anyway, I'm not sure if I go back to K-city any more, as TP273 points out, we have more or less the same catalog in Germany's FKK. Through the years I preferred to let the girls come to me in Kiev, I went to Avalon and Caribbean for dancing to the music, and am not that familiar with the hardened lot of WG. I've seen from photos that my girlfriend from last Jan and June likes Forsage Club, on the photo she's second from left celebrating birthday (20). Club for younger generation. I was in Hilton restaurant for a good dinner with my favourite blond girl, I wish I had know about this Georgian trend there. We were also at the bar on the (top?) floor, Bar Six last June, yes, everything was very hot then Are you sure about this Klitshko thing? Seems somehow not likely, maybe I'm wrong. Has someone been to the Timoshenko condo? Is it worth a visit? PhotoSlide, what means this marketing statement? I throw in a photo of third friend from sightseeing tour.

DramaFree11

11-04-18, 05:10

I'm happy someone is still positive on Kiiv. It is still a great mongering place for me. I can't think of a place with more 18-24 yo white Europeans willing to have sex for 100 for two hours. I also have had good experience dating Ukrainians 15-20 yo younger than me without a problem. So, if you like skinny, white Europeans Ukraine is still the place to be. People talk about German FKKs like their are heaven, but to me they are terrible. I am 40 yo and have no desire to meet well worn 30-35 yo pros in a smokey room filled surrounded by 50 guys in robes at an FKK.You can have high quality girls for that price or slightly more in many destinations. It is about building relationships. If you take out the middleman that is about what make after the agency takes their cut.

PhotoSlider

11-04-18, 06:34

...Are you sure about this Klitshko thing? Seems somehow not likely, maybe I'm wrong..... PhotoSlide, what means this marketing statement?...I can double check about Klitschko penthouse with trusted sources, but I did see him at Avalon going for breakfast. My massage therapist, and a boxer himself, made a joke:

- You should have kicked him in the ass from behind. He would have tried a hook on you, and you would dive avoiding and then went for an uppercut!

Marketing statement means that I admire hot female bodies and especially cute butts. Nothing else. And I forgot to mention City Beach Club during Summer, but I am not affiliated in any way.

PhotoSlider

11-04-18, 13:47

And one more. Karolina. Actually the very first one during my last visit in Kiev:

https://kievlady.com/modeli/204163-karolina/

She had no deficiencies in any way, as far as my requirements concerned.

She also appears to have lesbian offering, which I didn't try, and do not know the other girl Albina in the picture with Karolina:

https://kievlady.com/modeli/204427-karolina-i-albina/

Pictures aren't fake. I am afraid that her hourly rate 2100 UAH is because of my escapades in Kiev this Fall. So, do not pay extra for taxi, it is included: 2000+100 UAH.

If anybody tries one of these KievLady dot com girls, please post a report.

PhotoSlider

11-04-18, 14:25

Yet another Thumbelina from Kiev. She came to me as Polina:

https://kievlady.com/modeli/14646-evangelina/

Sweet and tender! Real pix.

If you like them 6+ feet tall with huge boobs, then she is not for you.

I am as ever and still- perplexed while trying to find a correlation between them ladies height, and their ability to take my dick in its entirety and enjoy it in the mutually beneficial fashion without the girl complaining or evasive maneuvers. I am not that big. I never measured.

Visal

11-04-18, 16:14

Anyone noticed Gia website is now redirecting to escort. Vc? Is this from same owner? Anyone tried them? Is the quality same as GIA?

Visal

11-04-18, 16:25

If anybody tries one of these KievLady dot com girls, please post a report.I have tried them in May of this year. Once I got same girl as shown, second time I got a different girl, but the same qualities that I wanted. Although the operator back in the month of May were rough I guess. They did not wanted to chat with me when I was particular about asking for busty blonde girl. They tried to ban my IP for a few times, but I changed IP like a fly and contacted them again and again. I wanted to test them out. They finally did a chat with their first sentence " What do you want dear?" They sent me a busty blonde. But. She was smelly.

HungasaHorse68

11-04-18, 18:38

PhotoSlider

11-04-18, 19:30

I have tried them in May of this year. Once I got same girl as shown, second time I got a different girl, but the same qualities that I wanted. Although the operator back in the month of May were rough I guess. They did not wanted to chat with me when I was particular about asking for busty blonde girl. They tried to ban my IP for a few times, but I changed IP like a fly and contacted them again and again. I wanted to test them out. They finally did a chat with their first sentence " What do you want dear?" They sent me a busty blonde. But. She was smelly.GIA operations had been down since mid-May for couple months under investigation by some sort of LE. Then resurrected closer to the end of July as KEC with new web-site design, etc. Operators became even worse than before. There's a lot of illiterate fake marketing "comments" by GIA management positioned as customer feedback.

About a month ago or so GIA-KEC started discounting more aggressively and hired new providers. I question their price structure. Girls with wider list of services have higher hourly rate, but there is extra charge for those extra services. More services should mean higher demand and better cash flow.

Discount approach is equally unappealing. 500 UAH off the first hour (the most expensive hour), and nothing after that.

Over a course of 3 years I did have 3 GIA girls with unacceptable attitude. 7-10 were superb. I didn't hire since they went out of business and returned back. And stopped following them. All my favorites left the agency.

Did anybody try GIA-KEC recently?

AntonySun1996

11-04-18, 22:12

They did not wanted to chat with me when I was particular about asking for busty blonde girl. They tried to ban my IP for a few times That's typical how people in CIS countries do business. They don't have the patience to listen to customers. I've also encountered similar situation several times.

AntonySun1996

11-04-18, 22:33

When they were younger, skinnier, had more hair. Unless you were fluent in Russian 15 years ago with Western European pockets, there never was a Golden era in Ukraine. Kyiv girls are speaking a lot more English now and thank god for Instagram. It makes those girls crave iPhones and Michael Kors bags and watches. Which is where we step in.You didn't have to be fluent in Russian. You just needed to have the courage to visit Kiev with a few bucks and hot girls will come to have sex with you. Ukraine was in extreme poverty at that time, and you didn't need a lot of cash to make a hot blonde to fvck you. Sometimes you didn't even need to come to their country as they would come to your town for survival. Many UA and RU hotties flooded to my middle-sized hometown in northern China in early 90's just for some low paid jobs. Not hard to imagine how many went to more developed regions like the states.

Speaking English and using social media do indeed make you able to communicate with girls easier, but also increase the number of your competitors, and of course result in higher market prices. And I'm not happy about it.

TinyHippo

11-04-18, 22:46

Anyone noticed Gia website is now redirecting to escort. Vc? Is this from same owner? Anyone tried them? Is the quality same as GIA?Yes, it is all the same. Expensive, but saves time if you are ok spending money over time. I've only used them twice in three years. 18 yo Milena was definitely fun although her pussy was broken after 30 minutes of sex and didn't want to stay for a 2nd hour. Super fun and hot girl though. She was laughing and smiling the whole time. Also look up the prices in Russian. You will save 15%. Ie. 3500 uah instead of $150.

PhotoSlider

11-05-18, 01:54

Hi Photoslider,

I like 6 feet and boobs. Anyone to recommend?Masha from one of my previous posts was 5'9" and had good natural boobs. But she became a little moody.

I did have tall slim girls at 5'11"-6", and as a result they had smaller size breast. On the other side I had girls who weren't as slim and had good size natural boobs, but were shorter.

Tall slim girls with 3+ size must have been employed elsewhere, and didn't make it into my pool. No substantial regrets on my side. I actually like shorter slightly overweight young ladies, they are under-fucked and as a result are very passionate and infinitely grateful.

Here is a photo of 5'9" beauty that had no visible ways to improve in attitude or physical appearance, but I do not see her online (PM me please if you are an established Forum contributor willing to exchange Kiev contacts, not just milking and providing nothing.)

PhotoSlider

11-05-18, 18:09

Which begs the question, when were the Golden days and when was was Kiev Heaven?It all depends on success criteria. Somehow I was as happy or significantly happier in November 2017 and Fall of 2018 as compared to Kiev in 2003, 2007, 2008 or post River Palace Era in 2011-2016.2015-2016 seemed like the most expensive period in Kiev.

Most importantly because of establishing my own harem, as well as better understanding how the whole Ukrainian Universe revolves, changes and operates,- what drives it in the most efficient manner and how to avoid the potholes.

PhotoSlider

11-05-18, 19:52

I like 6 feet and boobs. Anyone to recommend?This is the English version for size 3-5 and more:

https://kievlady.com/en/modeli/siski/bolshie/

Some girls are tall, some are fat, some are ugly, some are great. Photoshopped pix are most likely fake. You can perform google image search to validate.

I did see 190 cm - 6'2" tall ladies on that web-site. Search engine is not the most convenient. On purpose I think.

190 is very tempting, but didn't happen to me yet. So far 182 from Odessa was the tallest.

Do your own field research and do not forget to report here in the most flamboyant manner please.

DramaFree11

11-05-18, 20:30

It all depends on success criteria. Somehow I was as happy or significantly happier in November 2017 and Fall of 2018 as compared to Kiev in 2003, 2007, 2008 or post River Palace Era in 2011-2016.2015-2016 seemed like the most expensive period in Kiev.

Most importantly because of establishing my own harem, as well as better understanding how the whole Ukrainian Universe revolves, changes and operates,- what drives it in the most efficient manner and how to avoid the potholes.Kiev, was still good up until about 5-7 years ago. You might want to read others opinion about Kiev.

Jojosun

11-05-18, 23:59

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MtQEASjIcHs

Its in the Title. In reply to this " Hey there Jojosun, got some inquiries.

I'm actually applying for a visa to visit ukraine for sex tourism. I need to know where one can find the best girls the best clubs and *houses. Is it better to stay in Kiev or go to some rural areas where I can try farm girls?

Update me with what you know".

Jojosun

11-06-18, 05:51

PhotoSlider

11-06-18, 15:30

...I need to know where one can find the best girls the best clubs and *houses. Is it better to stay in Kiev or go to some rural areas where I can try farm girls?...Creative idea.

When some of us go to Tijuana, do they ever venture further deep into rural Mexico? Same for Columbia or Thailand. I think we expect girls to get to us, not vise versa.

Are you fluent in Ukrainian or Russian? Do you enjoy rural life? Can you be useful for community there? Do you see yourself relocated from LA or NYC to greener pastures in the hope of seeing more peasant girls and not get beaten by their local admirers?

IMHO this would require a substantial mindset transformation, and while benefits might increase few orders of magnitude in terms of expenses, you would loose big city's anonymity, that is ability to easily disappear in the crowd when admiration is over or something.

Certainly worth a try for 2-4 weeks, not shorter, but not for a 3-6 months, unless you are looking for a truly long term commitment.

Where? Anywhere! There must be tours. I wouldn't go too far away from Kiev or transportation hubs. Maybe tourist and resort locations. Perhaps study crime density maps, staying away from known trouble spots, away from the East and borders in general.

Having a reliable local scout / guide is a must. Hire 18-21 beauty as your native speaker-interpreter-language teacher. Could be fun, especially if one of your local GFs would provide a landing pad, and will not be jealous about your field studies.

I guess I didn't say anything new. YouTube has some examples of such travels.

PhotoSlider

11-06-18, 17:49

Clarification. The request above landed in my inbox via PM from a newbie. My advice to go Rural was in response to it.Thought it was you, Jojo. Never mind my length response then.

PhotoSlider

11-06-18, 19:04

...There's a lot of illiterate fake marketing "comments" by GIA management positioned as customer feedback...Just noticed that KEC-GIA removed relatively recent honest comments, that could potentially hurt some of the girls chances of getting booked. They still keep positive comments for multiple years back, and place their own with poor English, but I question credibility of this commercial entity even more now.

There are 42 girls on site today, not that much more than before, yet the highest I remember since October 2015.

It also appears that GIA-KEC girls exchange information internally about us hobbyists.

I wouldn't be surprised to see proliferation of industrious self-organized students and young office workers competing and undercutting KEC-GIA similar to what Riina's source of Ukrainian beauties does in Chicago.

Jojosun

11-06-18, 21:07

Thought it was you, Jojo. Never mind my length response then.Enjoyed reading your thoughts on Rural life and it wasn't wasted. I hope the sender of that PM to me demanding to be spoon fed info reads it.

General advice. Would be mongers and other dreamers of easy sex in Kiev who need Visas to visit Ukraine, stay in the city centre or close.

PhotoSlider

11-07-18, 01:05

Without pretending to know the ultimate truth about Nowadays Kiev, or providing the concise info on Clubs, Apartments or even URLs on specific ladies, please allow me to share some thoughts on related topics and forgive me for errors and mistakes in my logical conclusions, I am human after all.

What are the typical categories of mongers in Kiev?

1. Newbies, first timers.

2. Short term visitors on a tight budget.

3. Short term visitors with deeper pockets.

4. Return visitors with significant success in the past and established base on the ground.

5. Expats and locals.

6. Remote observers, online masturbators and commentators making unsolicited assumptions and conclusions.

7. Liers and wannabe artists.

We are not interested in the last 2 categories. 1 may overlap with 2 or 3.

There are also other dimensions:

1. Language.

2. Knowledge of local culture.

3. Character.

4. Game.

5. Fitness level.

6. Age.

7. Attractiveness or success with opposite gender.

8. Prowess, virility, masculinity.

Then there are requirements for targeted commodity:

1. 1-10 rating, as subjective as it is.

2. Significance of Acronyms.

3. Preferred modus operandi: one girls for the duration or multiple acts every day, including threesomes and switching partners.

4. Traveling internationally or staying within Ukraine.

5. Strictly Kiev or venturing wider.

The above shows how impossible it is to compare apples to oranges, and strawberries to passion fruits.

Yet there are certain trends and tendencies. Some of us cannot get enough and right after leaving Kiev want to get back as soon as possible, others are disappointed to put it mildly.

One thing we all can agree though. One way or the other, Ukrainian ladies are rather skillful in separating us from our hard earned cash.

Another concept is not that obvious. Allow me to attempt an explanation:

What are the options for single males in countries where democracy is strong and women are rampant protecting their inseparable rights? Say in Chicago or London or Rome, where prostitution is illegal?

1. Escorts with exorbitant prices and uneven service quality levels.

2. Strip clubs.

3. Massage parlors with happy endings.

4. Clubs and Bars.

The first 3 categories cheat and extort, while LE is doing their job fighting abuse and related crime.

The latter category is compartmentalized into gay bars, student clubs, progressive music establishments, and so on and so forth.

Can the person in mid-50's or even mid 30's walk into club or bar with predominantly student crowd? Yes, but with not much success. But we expect that to work in Kiev. And not just that. We, tourists with certain tastes, expect the Ukrainian ladies to congregate in certain designated places that ARE FAMILIAR TO US, but we want to go quite a few steps further: DFK, DS, BBBJ, DATY, etc.

Well, P4 P has existed in Kiev for centuries, but not all of the above categories are native or acceptable to Ukrainian ladies. We keep asking for hunting at clubs and bars. Well, ask and you shall receive, but you will pay dearly and may not be happy in the end because your lady goes through the motions, and portray passion in the most unconvincing way while looking at the ceiling absentmindedly, or shorts you and leaves.

You wanted to pick up a girl at the bar or a strip club? You wanted to extend the illusion they sell you for 20 bucks in your filthy Midwestern hometown strip club in Bumblefuck, Iowa and have an Eastern European beauty do everything as you please? Maybe she will, but don't be surprised if she doesn't, because your desires and especially the environment that is so familiar to you, is foreign to her.

Yes, Kiev businessmen built Arena to make good money, and they run well oiled machine at Rio and other locations all over the place. There is a demand, they listened and provided. For revenue.

Those of us who listened, and observed and analyzed objectively, and tried to understand what resonates with objects of our true desires, were able to get integrated into the natural fabric of local life and fuse it into the new hybrid, that exists for the last 10-15 years and is unlike anything else on this planet.

Can I describe it? I try and fail. Perhaps Rog123, Jojosun, JyMondor, Kozerog, Prosal, Littlejoey and many others who left this Forum, can do so much better than I explaining The Kiev Phenomenon.

Interestingly enough AFAIK Kozerog and Jymondor do not go to Clubs, Bars and Strip Joints for hunting. Neither do I anymore.

Hope this flow of conscience makes some sense to a thoughtful reader.

Respectfully yours,

PhotoSlider.

Jojosun

11-09-18, 18:26

DramaFree11

11-09-18, 22:21

Jojosun

11-10-18, 00:28

Good post, great question. Moscow is 100 times better. Beautiful women are everywhere, I mean everywhere. Less scans and less fake profiles.

Very active nightlife, busy at least three nights a week, in Kiev maybe there's one decent night. Currently Moscow is only 20 to 30% more expensive then Kiev. Also, people can be very rude at first but then they're nice after you get to know.

Girls are attainable and approachable, And like foreign guys. Moscow is much better, I love the energy and the people.

I would say the only drawback, is people in Moscow can be a little racist, But if you dress appropriately, you'll have no problems And behave.

If you want to have fun go to Moscow, if you want to be bored stay in Kiev, and hook up with average looking girls. I will be there in two weeks and again in December anybody wants to join me text me. Happy to help.As I said more than once on this thread, I fully respect all opinions including yours of course, But some opinions sound more like an emotional outburst than an objective insight into the scene in Kiev.

Just to put you in the picture. My first experience with Eastern Europe was Prague back in late 88 when I was a care free student doing the usual adventures backpacking trips. I found Prague then to be Sex heaven for freebies.

At the time Prague followed by Budapest was a lot of fun compared to other cities and towns I did in EE& Central Europe then and in recent years. In fact I found Prague to be still a lot of fun on my return visit few weeks ago after nearly 30 years.

My recent and past observations, Prague is livelier than Kiev but Kiev's girls are on a much higher beauty scale than all the girls of EE and central Europe followed by Polish girls. I wouldn't know about Russian girls in Moscow.

I don't fly to Kiev to fuck average girls and I've been doing Kiev and before that Dontesek for the last 9 years. Flying to Kiev from London isn't an annual vacation nor do I need a second Mortgage. With my social well established connections we always end up having a ball at much cheaper prices than London or Houston.

According to Numbeo. Prices in Moscow are much Higher than the 20 or 30% you are quoting https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Moscow&country2=Ukraine&city2=Kiev&displayCurrency=USD..

Going out to Restaurants "Restaurant Prices in Kiev are 42.53% lower than in Moscow".

You would need around 1,740.06 $ (48,485. 63&#8372 in Kiev to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 2,672.69 $ (180,000. 00р1091;1073 in Moscow (assuming you rent in both cities).

I know prices are not set in stone. But there you have it.

Further recent observations on the subject with figures are most welcome.

DramaFree11

11-10-18, 13:47

As I said more than once on this thread, I fully respect all opinions including yours of course, But some opinions sound more like an emotional outburst than an objective insight into the scene in Kiev.

Just to put you in the picture. My first experience with Eastern Europe was Prague back in late 88 when I was a care free student doing the usual adventures backpacking trips. I found Prague then to be Sex heaven for freebies.

At the time Prague followed by Budapest was a lot of fun compared to other cities and towns I did in EE& Central Europe then and in recent years. In fact I found Prague to be still a lot of fun on my return visit few weeks ago after nearly 30 years.

My recent and past observations, Prague is livelier than Kiev but Kiev's girls are on a much higher beauty scale than all the girls of EE and central Europe followed by Polish girls. I wouldn't know about Russian girls in Moscow..I also respect you and your post are usually spot on unlike others. Easy solution join. I will also be in Moscow, Dec. 20-Jan. 2 and I will also be there late Jan.

Couple of points my apartment in the center of Moscow will be $45-55 a night in the center. Uber is not expensive. If you drink Vodka, it is just not that expensive in Rest. And Bars. I use to hang out in Famous and Buddha Bar in Kiev, just not that much more expensive. That being said I do check the prices before I order. Another big difference in Moscow girls sometimes pay and you are expected to pay for there friends. Many times people have bought me drinks in Russia, this very rarely happens in Kiev. Most Cubs there is no Cover, so you save money there. I do tip the doorman, but I did that in Kiev as well, makes a big difference.

As far as girls there is zero comparison tall Skinny girls all over. I have to stick with average at best in Kiev, if you have local knowledge slightly better. For a newbie probably bellow average. No reason to fly around the world for Kiev girls. Other destinations defiantly yes.

Jojosun

11-11-18, 09:30

DramaFree11,

To fuck UA girls one needs to fly to the main source, a very simple reason.

Sorbonne

11-11-18, 11:54

As I said more than once on this thread, I fully respect all opinions including yours of course, But some opinions sound more like an emotional outburst than an objective insight into the scene in Kiev.

Just to put you in the picture. My first experience with Eastern Europe was Prague back in late 88 when I was a care free student doing the usual adventures backpacking trips. I found Prague then to be Sex heaven for freebies.

At the time Prague followed by Budapest was a lot of fun compared to other cities and towns I did in EE& Central Europe then and in recent years. In fact I found Prague to be still a lot of fun on my return visit few weeks ago after nearly 30 years.

My recent and past observations, Prague is livelier than Kiev but Kiev's girls are on a much higher beauty scale than all the girls of EE and central Europe followed by Polish girls. I wouldn't know about Russian girls in Moscow.

I don't fly to Kiev to fuck average girls and I've been doing Kiev and before that Dontesek for the last 9 years. Flying to Kiev from London isn't an annual vacation nor do I need a second Mortgage. With my social well established connections we always end up having a ball at much cheaper prices than London or Houston.

According to Numbeo. Prices in Moscow are much Higher than the 20 or 30% you are quoting https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Russia&city1=Moscow&country2=Ukraine&city2=Kiev&displayCurrency=USD..

Going out to Restaurants "Restaurant Prices in Kiev are 42.53% lower than in Moscow".

You would need around 1,740.06 $ (48,485. 63&#8372 in Kiev to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 2,672.69 $ (180,000. 00р1091;1073 in Moscow (assuming you rent in both cities).

I know prices are not set in stone. But there you have it.

Further recent observations on the subject with figures are most welcome.Having spent the last 2 years in Poland and Ukraine I am surprised myself to conclude that Polish girls are on average more beautiful than Ukrainians.

I mean I can't walk around large cities in Poland without seeing such beautiful girls every few minutes, the like of which I can only remember in Scandinavia. But this may have a lot to do with the fact that Poles today have more money to beautify themselves.

And of course what's so good about Polish girls when they are much harder to get anyway?

Oh, and Polish girls are also hanging in London until Brexit, lol.

TinyHippo

11-11-18, 13:35

Having spent the last 2 years in Poland and Ukraine I am surprised myself to conclude that Polish girls are on average more beautiful than Ukrainians.

I mean I can't walk around large cities in Poland without seeing such beautiful girls every few minutes, the like of which I can only remember in Scandinavia. But this may have a lot to do with the fact that Poles today have more money to beautify themselves.

And of course what's so good about Polish girls when they are much harder to get anyway?

Oh, and Polish girls are also hanging in London until Brexit, lol.If you prefer blondes, I can see that. I prefer brunettes. So, I am more into Ukrainians. Polish girls have a little bit more money and dress nicer. So, that is probably why they are much harder to get. I have had that experience too. Also, don't forget there are so many Ukrainians in Poland. Sometimes 10-15% of the university population is Ukrainian.

Jojosun

11-11-18, 19:47

Having spent the last 2 years in Poland and Ukraine I am surprised myself to conclude that Polish girls are on average more beautiful than Ukrainians.

I mean I can't walk around large cities in Poland without seeing such beautiful girls every few minutes, the like of which I can only remember ini Scandinavia. But this may have a lot to do with the fact that Poles today have more money to beautify themselves.

And of course what's so good about Polish girls when they are much harder to get anyway?

Oh, and Polish girls are also hanging in London until Brexit, lol.Thank you Sorbonne for your enlightened observation based on your 2 Years residency there. From what I remember from here going back 9 years, You & I are in the Fans Club of Scandinavian girls who are almost perfect if only they were available for our hobby.

I can easily get side_tracked on this thread and come across with a lot of Waffles so I won't talk about Polish girls. LOL, LOL.

At my age I might try the 3 days Booze cruise from Helsinki to St Petersberg, a trip I should've done much earlier and its Visa Free to Russia with more than a fair chance of banging horny Finnish & Russian Women under the same roof at Duty Free Prices.

Gsi2810

11-12-18, 15:17

Sorbonne

11-12-18, 16:32

If you prefer blondes, I can see that. I prefer brunettes. So, I am more into Ukrainians. Polish girls have a little bit more money and dress nicer. So, that is probably why they are much harder to get. I have had that experience too. Also, don't forget there are so many Ukrainians in Poland. Sometimes 10-15% of the university population is Ukrainian.That's a good point. Yes, I, as a gentleman, do prefer blondes, like Scandinavians.

Anyway, I was not even sure how many of Ukrainians were blondes. I had a preconception that Slavic girls have blonde hair but noticed some years ago that there were so many brunettes in Ukraine and have been wondering if they were dying their hair brunette. So most Slavic girls have brunette? The Polish are Slavic, too, though.

Sorbonne

11-12-18, 16:38

Thank you Sorbonne for your enlightened observation based on your 2 Years residency there. From what I remember from here going back 9 years, You & I are in the Fans Club of Scandinavian girls who are almost perfect if only they were available for our hobby.

I can easily get side_tracked on this thread and come across with a lot of Waffles so I won't talk about Polish girls. LOL, LOL.

At my age I might try the 3 days Booze cruise from Helsinki to St Petersberg, a trip I should've done much earlier and its Visa Free to Russia with more than a fair chance of banging horny Finnish & Russian Women under the same roof at Duty Free Prices.Certainly.

3 days from Helsinki to St. Peter? In that case the skipper must also be involved in booze and banging!

Riina

11-12-18, 19:31

If you prefer blondes, I can see that. I prefer brunettes. So, I am more into Ukrainians. Polish girls have a little bit more money and dress nicer. So, that is probably why they are much harder to get. I have had that experience too. Also, don't forget there are so many Ukrainians in Poland. Sometimes 10-15% of the university population is Ukrainian.Polish girls dress like shit. Greater wealth in Poland actually converts to dressing down as other things are perceived as more important. Kinda like Americans are generally richer then everybody else and dress like crap. Beauty is everything to an Ukrainian girl. Most will never have careers and have to do everything they can to attract the best man possible. It's the reason why the incredible attraction to Ukraine by foreigners.

PhotoSlider

11-12-18, 21:54

Guys was in Pattaya a couple of weeks ago and I make it a point to go to the Russian clubs on my last day just for the sake of variety, can't afford them but good to see attractive girls who share the common language. One thing which struck me odd was that Russians and Ukranian girls were work mates, colleagues and even friends in these clubs, I thought the relationship between the two nations were strained to say the least and wondered if such a situation is there in Kiev or Moscow, do the girls of other nationalities work there as well? On a sidenote Kiev sounds like a great place to monger and I long to monger in a place where I can speak English as flirting is always a great deal maker, will be doing my research before posting anything for my vacation in a couple of months. Talk to you guys soon.From what I've experienced, Ukrainians in Kiev are predominantly blind to nationality and race. Not all, but younger ones do not care. It is obvious at all levels: applauding to Russian Dance at National Opera in Nutcracker ballet performance, speaking Russian language in the company with Ukrainians from Western parts of the country, and more.

This is not to say that gradually percentage of Russian language on TV, in the offices (government, medical, etc.) is shrinking, because use of Ukrainian, English and even Turkish is increasing. Normal evolution process. Many of my friends still send their children to schools where they would learn Russian, as it is considered important for future career.

And certainly, there is no illusion within the wide society categories about who is the real aggressor, despite deep corruption within the Ukrainian government. Still I spoke to one of the leading Kiev restaurateurs, and in the middle of all this, he travels to Moscow to learn new ideas from his competition and such.

Let's not start a political discussion here. This is Forum about them girls!

PhotoSlider

11-12-18, 22:28

That's a good point. Yes, I, as a gentleman, do prefer blondes, like Scandinavians.

Anyway, I was not even sure how many of Ukrainians were blondes. I had a preconception that Slavic girls have blonde hair but noticed some years ago that there were so many brunettes in Ukraine and have been wondering if they were dying their hair brunette. So most Slavic girls have brunette? The Polish are Slavic, too, though.Very simple explanation:

Many Ukrainian blondes from Bila Cerkva, L'viv, Sumy and other Ukrainian Centers of Civilization upon further investigation confessed to have Polish heritage. Do not forget that in 18th century Polish was the main spoken language not only in Kiev, but also to the West from Dnipro River (right bank). L'viv was Polish. So were many other cities. Ruling class in cities and villages was Polish.

As far as brunettes, there's undeniable Turkish influence, as well as many other ethnic groups: tatars, kypchaks, sarmats, khazars, to name just a few.

From the other hand there's a lot of immensely beautiful blonde Turkish ladies. Therefore, no need to stereotype here.

Are Polish girls more beautiful? In what respect? With or without makeup? With or without Winter clothes? In or out of lace underwear? Is there attitude better? Are they more skillful in bed? Are they more educated, more intelligent, more fun in conversation?

I would be first to admit that in the art of presentation and emphasizing their best features (and hiding deficiencies), Ukrainian ladies are unsurpassed. I did see them quite uncomfortable out of their element in the morning. Hiding the face before cosmetics is on.

Still for me there is nothing better than an Ukrainian girl waking up at 7 am with sincere smile even before she first opens her eyes. And then it takes about 10-15 minutes for her loud moaning to wake up neighbors upstairs, and another 20-30 minutes for both of us to fall back in bed exhausted and happy. I can still see in my mind the sparks in her eyes, while she hides part of her face under the blanket. I ask:

- How are you, my dear?

- Thank you, I'm doing grrrreat!

That was a mere 4 weeks ago, and she was 25 years old blonde from L'viv.

Also remember some 5 years ago another 18 years old blonde from Sumy had put my T-shirt on before joining me in bed for the very first second time. Meaning the first first time we met was for P4P, and then she became my GF. Anyway, I suggested to her taking off the bra to feel more comfortable, and she visibly hesitated. I thought she was shy, but couple months later she explained that she's been thinking which way her breasts would look better. With or without bra? She ran me out off condoms rather quickly, then took by the hand after a dinner and directed towards the nearest pharmacy. 18 years old. More than 30 years younger than me at the time.

DramaFree11

11-13-18, 00:19

Polish girls dress like shit. Greater wealth in Poland actually converts to dressing down as other things are perceived as more important. Kinda like Americans are generally richer then everybody else and dress like crap. Beauty is everything to an Ukrainian girl. Most will never have careers and have to do everything they can to attract the best man possible. It's the reason why the incredible attraction to Ukraine by foreigners.Interesting, I met a lot of Ukrainians in Russia but there's not a lot of Russians going to you Kiev, no opportunities. If you Ukraine are not careful, and does not clamp down on their immigration Policies, leaving and coming the country. Turkish will be the second language.

PhotoSlider

11-13-18, 01:05

To fuck UA girls one needs to fly to the main source, a very simple reason.To have a substantiated opinion about UA girls behavior in their major congregation hub, one needs to fly there.

And I do not know what I like better, to fuck UA girls at the main source, or make observations about the process?

I did have them UA girls in Spain, Poland, Russia and many other countries. And nowhere else they are sweeter, than in Kiev!

PhotoSlider

11-13-18, 01:37

Its been 4 days and you could hear a pin drop on this thread as I don' t think anyone who knows the Kiev scene well could've disputed most of the main points in your observations.

Just few points to bear in mind.

Unlike The US and many countries, Prostitution isn't illegal in London & The UK but other activities associated with it are. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_the_United_Kingdom.My mistake, thanks much for pointing that out, Jojo. There were also a few orthographic errors noticed upon second reading. Too bad I cannot edit after posting. Guess that policy makes sense.

Thanks for your wise words and support! It means a lot coming from well seasoned expert.
Nowhere and I mean Nowhere in (Eastern or Central Europe) at present compares to Kiev when it comes to the availability & number of attractive (Semi Pro Girls, my main interest in Kiev) who are available for sponsoring. Maybe Moscow or SP, European part of Russia are in the same league or even better. But I wouldn't know as Russia sounds to me as a much harder nut to crack compared to Kiev.

Anyone with solid experience of both Kiev and Moscow, SP, please post your observations, comparisons with facts & figures relating to the total cost of a mongering experience.What would be the facts and figures criteria for such a comparison?

There's crime in both cities. Not sure which is worse. Somehow I feel very safe in Kiev, despite occasional explosions and shooting, and have no desire to face Russian police, border guards or customs.

Most of us, stinking foreigners)) doesn't need a visa to go to Ukraine. Russia is another story.

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/comparison/moscow/kiev

Average cost of living is 31% less in Kiev. But there's no way transportation in Moscow is only 3% more. Looking at what makes up this average shows that taxi and gas is 50% less in Kiev, and public transportation is more. Questionable conclusion.

Besides I can walk downtown Kiev on foot, and reach 95% of what I need within 30-45 minutes without any transportation. Moscow is substantially larger in all dimensions. Even Manhattan is more compact than Moscow.

By no means Kiev is cheap, but I lived in both cities for years, and learned to love Moscow against my initial prejudice. Kiev IMHO is 2-3 times cheaper for me personally, especially the way I spend my time and money away from the main residence.

What else would be considered a true criteria, not based on belief or "my friends said"?

Let me consider few scenarios:

1. Can I fuck 50 girls in 5+ weeks in Moscow and be content with 80-90% of them? Show me someone who did it. How much would it cost, -- in a purely hypothetical sense?

2. Can I stay 10 days for free with a 9-10 rated girl who has multiple orgasms with me in bed one night after another? Did you do it?

3. Good luck pulling off Kozerog's approach to mongering in Moscow.

The rest is a pure emotion, and has no measurable meaning.

Michi T

11-13-18, 01:53

...Girls are attainable and approachable, And like foreign guys. Moscow is much better, I love the energy and the people....Looool! Girls are also attainable and open in Kiev! That's why I will be back there in three days. Meet some of my October girls. But in December will go to Georgia. Again.

Ukraine = very open and very easy to approach but money focused, b i t c h e s
Georgia = conservative and difficult (but I met my girl on first day on arrival - and bingo! no need for other search)

Gsi2810

11-13-18, 16:10

From what I've experienced, Ukrainians in Kiev are predominantly blind to nationality and race. Not all, but younger ones do not care. It is obvious at all levels: applauding to Russian Dance at National Opera in Nutcracker ballet performance, speaking Russian language in the company with Ukrainians from Western parts of the country, and more.

This is not to say that gradually percentage of Russian language on TV, in the offices (government, medical, etc.) is shrinking, because use of Ukrainian, English and even Turkish is increasing. Normal evolution process. Many of my friends still send their children to schools where they would learn Russian, as it is considered important for future career.

And certainly, there is no illusion within the wide society categories about who is the real aggressor, despite deep corruption within the Ukrainian government. Still I spoke to one of the leading Kiev restaurateurs, and in the middle of all this, he travels to Moscow to learn new ideas from his competition and such.

Let's not start a political discussion here. This is Forum about them girls!Thanks for the response, wasn't my intention to have a political debate was just curious that's all.

Sorbonne

11-14-18, 10:34

Very simple explanation:

Many Ukrainian blondes from Bila Cerkva, L'viv, Sumy and other Ukrainian Centers of Civilization upon further investigation confessed to have Polish heritage. Do not forget that in 18th century Polish was the main spoken language not only in Kiev, but also to the West from Dnipro River (right bank). L'viv was Polish. So were many other cities. Ruling class in cities and villages was Polish.

As far as brunettes, there's undeniable Turkish influence, as well as many other ethnic groups: tatars, kypchaks, sarmats, khazars, to name just a few.

From the other hand there's a lot of immensely beautiful blonde Turkish ladies. Therefore, no need to stereotype here.

Are Polish girls more beautiful? In what respect? With or without makeup? With or without Winter clothes? In or out of lace underwear? Is there attitude better? Are they more skillful in bed? Are they more educated, more intelligent, more fun in conversation?

I would be first to admit that in the art of presentation and emphasizing their best features (and hiding deficiencies), Ukrainian ladies are unsurpassed. I did see them quite uncomfortable out of their element in the morning. Hiding the face before cosmetics is on.

Still for me there is nothing better than an Ukrainian girl waking up at 7 am with sincere smile even before she first opens her eyes. And then it takes about 10-15 minutes for her loud moaning to wake up neighbors upstairs, and another 20-30 minutes for both of us to fall back in bed exhausted and happy. I can still see in my mind the sparks in her eyes, while she hides part of her face under the blanket. I ask:

- How are you, my dear?

- Thank you, I'm doing grrrreat!

That was a mere 4 weeks ago, and she was 25 years old blonde from L'viv.

Also remember some 5 years ago another 18 years old blonde from Sumy had put my T-shirt on before joining me in bed for the very first second time. Meaning the first first time we met was for P4P, and then she became my GF. Anyway, I suggested to her taking off the bra to feel more comfortable, and she visibly hesitated. I thought she was shy, but couple months later she explained that she's been thinking which way her breasts would look better. With or without bra? She ran me out off condoms rather quickly, then took by the hand after a dinner and directed towards the nearest pharmacy. 18 years old. More than 30 years younger than me at the time.

Thanks for the simple explanations. Yes, when I was in Bila Tserkva, I remember seeing some Polish monuments.

Make no mistake, I love Ukraine. That is why one of my residences is currently located in Ukraine. Nice young girls can be had at fairly good prices.

But as I indicated, I prefer Scandinavian types to Slavic types. I am not into Slavic features. So in Ukraine I have to seek Scandi types in vain and settle with Polish types.

Sorbonne

11-14-18, 10:48

Polish girls dress like shit. Greater wealth in Poland actually converts to dressing down as other things are perceived as more important. Kinda like Americans are generally richer then everybody else and dress like crap. Beauty is everything to an Ukrainian girl. Most will never have careers and have to do everything they can to attract the best man possible. It's the reason why the incredible attraction to Ukraine by foreigners.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe just difference in perception.

But the Polish are certainly not yet in the same league in wealth as the Americans, and it is difficult to believe such mentality has already developed in Poland. As I said, for me at least, I can't walk about my city in Poland without seeing top-notch girls every few minutes.

It should also be noted that girls in Kiev or in larger cities may dress nice, but once outside these cities, it seems most of them, not all, simply cannot afford looking nice.

Riina

11-14-18, 12:39

I have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe just difference in perception.

But the Polish are certainly not yet in the same league in wealth as the Americans, and it is difficult to believe such mentality has already developed in Poland. As I said, for me at least, I can't walk about my city in Poland without seeing top-notch girls every few minutes.

It should also be noted that girls in Kiev or in larger cities may dress nice, but once outside these cities, it seems most of them, not all, simply cannot afford looking nice.https://www.facebook.com/stereochicago/

I have no idea what you are talking about. I patronize the above Euro bar posted above regularly just to watch the Ukrainian girls. Polish girls go there too. How do you tell the difference? The Ukrainian girls know how to dress and are about fifteen pounds less. Polish girls are quite open to doing meaningless work like baby sitting and cleaning. That work is an anathema to UKs. I scan FB gallery photos all the time in Ukraine and Poland. The difference could not be more obvious. Are sure you've been to these countries?

TinyHippo

11-14-18, 22:37

Looool! Girls are also attainable and open in Kiev! That's why I will be back there in three days. Meet some of my October girls. But in December will go to Georgia. Again.

Ukraine = very open and very easy to approach but money focused, b i t c h e s
Georgia = conservative and difficult (but I met my girl on first day on arrival - and bingo! no need for other search)How did you meet your Georgian girl? I scanned through Tinder, but did not see too many profiles. I guess the only real way is to just in-person. I have yet to go, but love Georgia food and wine. So, it is on my list.

Sorbonne

11-14-18, 22:55

https://www.facebook.com/stereochicago/

I have no idea what you are talking about. I patronize the above Euro bar posted above regularly just to watch the Ukrainian girls. Polish girls go there too. How do you tell the difference? The Ukrainian girls know how to dress and are about fifteen pounds less. Polish girls are quite open to doing meaningless work like baby sitting and cleaning. That work is an anathema to UKs. I scan FB gallery photos all the time in Ukraine and Poland. The difference could not be more obvious. Are sure you've been to these countries?

I wouldn't claim to know these girls or have been to these countries just by watching them in Chicago or in photos.

Tomster99

11-15-18, 05:00

Hi guys,

Planning on mongering in Kiev pretty soon over a few days.

1) Does someone have a suggestion which escort service to use? Seems like quite some gone out of business reading the forum:

2) How is the erotic massage experience? I found Salon Dream, Dolly, Luxmassage and Moulin Rouge. However: the offer a variety of services and prices. Which service would you recommend and what massage outlet?

Thanks guys for your hints.

Michi T

11-15-18, 13:47

How did you meet your Georgian girl? I scanned through Tinder, but did not see too many profiles. I guess the only real way is to just in-person. I have yet to go, but love Georgia food and wine. So, it is on my list.That's actually more a discussion for the Georgia forum. I have no idea about Tinder. I met her in real life. On my first day. She was working in the hotel lobby, I asked her for help with the computer, she helped me, we then talked almost four hours, we liked each other, agreed to meet on that same evening, had some follow ups and in December I will go back to see her. Easy as that.

PhotoSlider

11-15-18, 18:03

Its been 4 days and you could hear a pin drop on this thread as I don' t think anyone who knows the Kiev scene well could've disputed most of the main points in your observations...In the hindsight I was afraid to alienate half of the Forum by my candor. Glad it was taken in stride. Proves yet again what a great group of contributors we have here.

Next visit I'll attempt to find a balance between so called "monogamy Kiev style", and sports fucking "a la carte" - sampling few new girls every day.

Michi T

11-20-18, 12:47

Winter Time in Kiev is a light time, not much is going on.

DramaFree11

11-20-18, 15:32

Winter Time in Kiev is a light time, not much is going on.Interesting Winter time use to be the best time in Kiev, but times are changing. Girls would rather be on Social Media then go out. Also, more people are able to home office now.

Guntherus

11-21-18, 23:10

DramaFree11

11-21-18, 23:28

Member #4722

11-22-18, 01:24

When Everything is so quit in the forum it comes to my mind that so many aspiring punters have used this forum to ask for advice when going to Ukraine for the first time, promising to send a report upon return. To my best knowledge, none have appeared. Maybe their trip was a total failure and they are ashamed of reporting the mistakes. But this is what others can maybe learn the most from.I think it's just sometimes selfish people. In every forum here on the site you find guys asking questions and promising detailed reports after their trip but it almost never happens. These people have no interest in helping others. I have shared some contacts here in the past via PM without even a "thank you" in return.

JeffAA

11-23-18, 22:52

This is my first post here in these forums, I'm writing this in response to Rog123 and DramaFree11 comments about guys not sharing their experience from the trips and giving tips to other fellow mongers, this is a short guide to mongering in Kiev, I hope it will help other guys who read the forums.

Note 1: I've been visiting these forums for years and the information I got helped me a lot and this is how I pay back and give respect to other mongers who share their experiences and help others have happy times.

Note 2 : this guide is from my own experience in Kiev and I will try to hit all the right spots for a cheerful visit. However some points in this guide might be based on my personal preferences (we don't all like blondes) .

An objective summary about my trips:

I have been to Kiev many times (mainly from may to October every trip for 4 to 5 days) , each trip I booked an apartment because it gives me a better sense of privacy and an easier mongering, some from booking.com some from airBnb, in general the apartments were cheap sense I shared the cost with friends. A mongering trip should have a strategical place to stay in that's why you book a place near Khryshatyk street. I never had an apartment more than 10 minutes away from khryshatyk street, from me its easier for getting a taxi from a club or anywhere else, once you are familiar with the street in Kiev it will make your life easier.

Now, a summary of ways I had "Fun" in Kiev followed by few tips.

1. Agencies there few agencies in Kiev that you can call or message via whatsapp, viber, telegram. If you are visiting in the summer there even might be few guys in the street handing out cards with numbers you can call or text, they usually send you pictures of girls they have that you can book with the price per hour (from my recent trip it was 2000 gryvna + 200 for taxi) sure you can get cheaper or even bargain with them.

My main agency is GIA aka Kievescortclub, they don't have the cheapest rates but they are trustworthy I'll give them that and they have few gems here and there, am saying this because the girls on their site change from time to time, some leave and then new ones join, and sometimes you just regret not having a second appointment (Damn you Rita! Because the girl was truly unbelievable. Again I saw few fellow mongerers complain about the rates of the agency and that few years back they weren't the same. Honestly if the prices are too high for you then this agency isn't for you there are other ways.

IF you are traveling with a tight budget don't waste your money on this agency.

I'm not a rich guy (a little bit above middle class maybe) and there is no logical explanation on why I use this agency when I have cheaper alternatives, that said, I like this agency, sometimes they have pretty girls who speak a decent English which is important for me as my "dates" are usually 2-3 hours minimum and { I'm not just a love machine} , sometimes these conversations your have between your "efforts to please" are delightful.

There are few Agencies hiding in girls profiles on the Topescortbabes (search in google) site, I've texted several some were really independent girls who asked for high rates per hour ranging from 60 $/ h to 200 $/ h.

TIP: if you find an independent escort girl ask for recent pictures and if you like what you see ask for a short video call just to make sure you are not getting scammed.

2. Dating apps: the most useful App for me was mamba (I had a one time success on Badoo) it's filled with independent girls with rates ranging from 50 $/ h to 150 $/ h. IF you have time to spare in Kiev you should try texting some girls that you liked on mamba and see who responds, its time consuming but on the other hand there is a chance you'll find a free date with a local girl especially during summer time. AGAIN!! Its time consuming from my own experience (lets just say I am not the handsome guys you can find, I have acceptable appearance and I'm content with that) .

TIP: I spent like 2 $ on the premium mamba for a week, I guess that helped me in someway.

3. StripClubs. I have "limited" experience with strip clubs in Kiev as I have tried only Rio Club.

RIO club entrance fee is 500 gryvna = 18 $ approximately (a private dance also costs like 18 $ to 30 $ , I don't know how they determine the prices) , you get in some days its crowded somedays its not, booking a table is good choice they have a site and a phone number to call, the bartenders and waitresses speak decent English the staff was nice and eager to please you, in my own opinion I think they have a striping girl for every mans taste (some are busty, some are slim, some are blonde, short, tall.) .

You can get a private dance see if you like the girl and then ask her if she wants to come to your apartment (sometimes the girl asks you if you want to take her) witch usually costs 300 $ for 3 hours, the girls don't leave for less than 3 hours so there are pros and cons to the price.

I just want to say that your attitude is the key to a happy stay in a strip club, here are some tips regarding that matter:

A) tipping is really appreciated by the workers not just the girls in this club and they show it in a good way. I usually tip 50 UAH to 100 UAH.

B) If you want to put money in a girls G String the minimum is 50 UAh = 1.8 USD (come on guys its not that much).

C) Don't get drunk or misbehave because they will throw you out.

D) Don't harass the girls or touch without tipping (always show respect they are just as human as you) .

E) don't rush when picking a girl, I can't stress this enough, she might be the most beautiful girl your eyes ever saw but she also might be the coldest you ever met, happened to my friend and he wished he stayed with me in the club, learn from others mistakes guys.

Note: I spend around 150 $ to have a good time in this club (taking a girl is another thing), 3-4 private dances including drinks for me and my friends.

Note: this club has 2 sister clubs who are owned by the same owner of Rio, both are good with same prices but they are different from the original (Rio).

I think I covered a good portion of information in this report, I hope it helps few guys even though I know some guys won't like that the report wasn't budget friendly. But hey, this is my personal experience.

Am visiting Kiev again this year in may or June, and hope I will share new information on these forums.

I welcome any questions, you can PM me if you want to plan a trip to Kiev, I'll be more than happy to help.

JeffAA

11-23-18, 22:53

This is my first post here in these forums, I'm writing this in response to Rog123 and DramaFree11 comments about guys not sharing their experience from the trips and giving tips to other fellow mongers, this is a short guide to mongering in Kiev, I hope it will help other guys who read the forums.

• Note 1 : I've been visiting these forums for years and the information I got helped me a lot and this is how I pay back and give respect to other mongers who share their experiences and help others have happy times.

• Note 2 : this guide is from my own experience in Kiev and I will try to hit all the right spots for a cheerful visit. However some points in this guide might be based on my personal preferences » (we don't all like blondes) .

An objective summary about my trips:

I have been to Kiev many times (mainly from may to October every trip for 4 to 5 days) , each trip I booked an apartment because it gives me a better sense of privacy and an easier mongering, some from booking.com some from airBnb, in general the apartments were cheap sense I shared the cost with friends. A mongering trip should have a strategical place to stay in that's why you book a place near Khryshatyk street. I never had an apartment more than 10 minutes away from khryshatyk street, from me its easier for getting a taxi from a club or anywhere else, once you are familiar with the street in Kiev it will make your life easier.

Now, a summary of ways I had "Fun" in Kiev followed by few tips.

1. Agencies » there few agencies in Kiev that you can call or message via whatsapp, viber, telegram. If you are visiting in the summer there even might be few guys in the street handing out cards with numbers you can call or text, they usually send you pictures of girls they have that you can book with the price per hour (from my recent trip it was 2000 gryvna + 200 for taxi) sure you can get cheaper or even bargain with them.

My main agency is GIA aka Kievescortclub, they don't have the cheapest rates but they are trustworthy I'll give them that and they have few gems here and there, am saying this because the girls on their site change from time to time, some leave and then new ones join, and sometimes you just regret not having a second appointment (Damn you Rita!!) because the girl was truly unbelievable. Again I saw few fellow mongerers complain about the rates of the agency and that few years back they weren't the same. Honestly if the prices are too high for you then this agency isn't for you there are other ways.

• IF you are traveling with a tight budget don't waste your money on this agency.

• I'm not a rich guy (a little bit above middle class maybe) and there is no logical explanation on why I use this agency when I have cheaper alternatives, that said, I like this agency, sometimes they have pretty girls who speak a decent English which is important for me as my "dates" are usually 2-3 hours minimum and { I'm not just a love machine} , sometimes these conversations your have between your "efforts to please" are delightful.

There are few Agencies hiding in girls profiles on the Topescortbabes (search in google) site, I've texted several some were realy independent girls who asked for high rates per hour ranging from 60 $/ h to 200 $/ h.

• TIP: if you find an independent escort girl ask for recent pictures and if you like what you see ask for a short video call just to make sure you are not getting scammed.

2. Dating apps: the most useful App for me was mamba (I had a one time success on Badoo) it's filled with independent girls with rates ranging from 50 $/ h to 150 $/ h. IF you have time to spare in Kiev you should try texting some girls that you liked on mamba and see who responds, its time consuming but on the other hand there is a chance you'll find a free date with a local girl especially during summer time. AGAIN!! Its time consuming from my own experience (lets just say I am not the handsome guys you can find, I have acceptable appearance and I'm content with that) .

TIP: I spent like 2 $ on the premium mamba for a week, I guess that helped me in someway.

3. StripClubs. I have "limited" experience with strip clubs in Kiev as I have tried only Rio Club.

RIO club » entrance fee is 500 gryvna = 18 $ approximately (a private dance also costs like 18 $ to 30 $ , I don't know how they determine the prices) , you get in some days its crowded somedays its not, booking a table is good choice they have a site and a phone number to call, the bartenders and waitresses speak decent english the staff was nice and eager to please you, in my own opinion I think they have a striping girl for every mans taste (some are busty, some are slim, some are blonde, short, tall.) .

YOU can get a private dance see if you like the girl and then ask her if she wants to come to your apartment (sometimes the girl asks you if you want to take her) witch usually costs 300 $ for 3 hours, the girls don't leave for less than 3 hours so there are pros and cons to the price.

» » I just want to say that your attitude is the key to a happy stay in a strip club, here are some tips regarding that matter:

A) tipping is really appreciated by the workers not just the girls in this club and they show it in a good way. I usually tip 50 UAH to 100 UAH.

B) IF you want to put money in a girls G String the minimum is 50 UAh = 1. 8 USD (come on guys its not that much) .

C) DON'T get drunk or misbehave because they WILL throw you out.

D) DON't harass the girls or touch without tipping (always show respect they are just as human as you) .

E) don't Rush when picking a girl, I can't stress this enough, she might be the most beautiful girl your eyes ever saw but she also might be the coldest you ever met, happened to my friend and he wished he stayed with me in the club, learn from others mistakes guys.

Note: I spend around 150 $ to have a good time in this club (taking a girl is another thing) , 3-4 private dances including drinks for me and my friends.

Note: this club has 2 sister clubs who are owned by the same owner of Rio, both are good with same prices but they are different from the original (Rio) .

I think I covered a good portion of information in this report, I hope it helps few guys even though I know some guys won't like that the report wasn't budget friendly. But hey, this is my personal experience.

Am visiting Kiev again this year in may or June, and hope I will share new information on these forums.

• I welcome any questions, you can PM me if you want to plan a trip to Kiev, I'll be more than happy to help.

Mike Anderson

11-24-18, 08:57

Hi there guys,

First let me thank you for all the good info shared here.

I've to Kiev in the past and I am considering going to two places I haven't been at.

1. Paradise Cabaret as it is very close to my hotel. My main question is whether you can take a girl out or use the VIP rooms (which you can book for an hour) for more than a dance?

2. I was at Dolly massage place, and the girl wasn't nice and very technical. The place itself is very rundown.

So I was thinking of trying http://vipmassage.kiev.ua anyone has experience with that place?

Cheers,

Mike.

HornyBastard00

11-25-18, 00:12

DramaFree11

11-25-18, 04:13

Thanks for all this info even though it out of my budget LOL.

I'm going to Kiev for the first time in spring (April / May) and I this is my last resort as I am looking for cheaper agencies but thanks anyways.

Anyone here know similar but cheaper agency in Kiev?If you're going to cave on a budget, the only thing that will work as a straight game. Good luck.

DramaFree11

11-25-18, 04:48

I think it's just sometimes selfish people. In every forum here on the site you find guys asking questions and promising detailed reports after their trip but it almost never happens. These people have no interest in helping others. I have shared some contacts here in the past via PM without even a "thank you" in return.Has nothing to do with being selfish, All about embarrassment. I would say 40 to 60%, I'm newbies fail drastically in Kiev. There's a reason why none of them post. People don't want to deal with the reality of you Kiev, They want to keep fantasy alive.

Member #4722

11-25-18, 05:37

DramaFree11

11-25-18, 05:55

When Everything is so quit in the forum it comes to my mind that so many aspiring punters have used this forum to ask for advice when going to Ukraine for the first time, promising to send a report upon return. To my best knowledge, none have appeared. Maybe their trip was a total failure and they are ashamed of reporting the mistakes. But this is what others can maybe learn the most from.Embarrassment, 40-60% Of newbies fail in Kiev. Just not that easy Kiev, unless you're looking for very low or average girls.

AntonySun1996

11-26-18, 16:45

Does anyone has recent experiences with GIA girls? Any girl to recommend? Busty long legged blondes preferred.

Guntherus

11-27-18, 00:22

Thanks Jeff for your report, interesting and informative.

Jojosun

11-27-18, 01:35

Embarrassment, 40-60% Of newbies fail in Kiev. Just not that easy Kiev, unless you're looking for very low or average girls.We are all on this thread talking about UA girls, But out of curiosity and not disputing your figures wherever you got them from, do you have any idea where those " Newbies " Hail from?

Are you talking about civvie girls or WGS? If its the former, then Ethnicity, Nationality, Age, Looks, are very important factors & of course $$.

No one can judge the looks of such girls without unblurred photos.

As for pro girls in Kiev, an average or below average girls in the eyes of a monger from Country X might look a stunner in the eyes of a monger from country why.

DramaFree11

11-27-18, 04:03

We are all on this thread talking about UA girls, But out of curiosity and not disputing your figures wherever you got them from, do you have any idea where those " Newbies " Hail from?

Are you talking about civvie girls or WGS? If its the former, then Ethnicity, Nationality, Age, Looks, are very important factors & of course $$.

No one can judge the looks of such girls without unblurred photos.

As for pro girls in Kiev, an average or below average girls in the eyes of a monger from Country X might look a stunner in the eyes of a monger from country why.Average looking girls at best!

Gsi2810

11-27-18, 23:09

Member #4722

11-28-18, 00:04

Thank you for the detailed report sir, my Kiev trip will be around the same next year and I'm reading up on this forum (around 10 pages). Would also like to thank PhotoSlider for his numerous reports as well. I am an easy to please mongerer and most of the guy's 7 would probably be my 8. 5 or 9 but to me some romance goes a long way. So I don't really prefer escort agencies, my P4 P action comes from bars and streets and maybe even Tinder (have to download Mamba), I like to know the girl a bit, have a drink or two with her for an hour, dance with her and then have GFE, at this point she has warmed up to me as well and since money has been decided beforehand she can focus on having fun with me. I'm all about the GFE experience and honestly it's hard for me to maintain "my boy" if she isn't warm or we ain't going at it like lovers instead of a professional relationship. I'm relatively young but I don't consider this an issue GFE turns me on rest doesn't. One of the posters mentioned the clubs are too expensive for local girls but streets are kinder to mongerers. Also I guess strip clubs like Rio are fair game for me as I get to know the girls and have a drink or two with them before going ahead.You will have fun. If you don't embark with expectations of 9's and 10's you won't set yourself up for disappointment. There are beautiful women everywhere in Kiev. Many of them need money and they are open sexually. This is what I like about Kiev as my meetings (mostly off Mamba) include some "getting to know you" time that is off the clock. This is rare in mongering where one hour usually means 60 minutes only. In my experience the women are normally open to be wined and dined off the clock. I rarely ever repeat with escorts but every trip to Kiev I usually meet up with the same ladies several times.

At the bars expect to pay $100-$200 but in my experience (only had two ladies from bars) that normally gives you a few hours of crazy sex, especially when booze is involved. These girls will try to get the most out of you as possible so be firm with negotiating. I like Caribbean Club, ladies there every night but best selection on weekends. For a fun time Closer club has international DJs on weekends (think underground rave) and is always packed when they have a show. If you are on the younger side and have game it's certainly possible to meet hot women there but it's not a pickup joint like the tourist clubs.

JeffAA

11-28-18, 00:34

Thank you for the detailed report sir, my Kiev trip will be around the same next year and I'm reading up on this forum (around 10 pages). Would also like to thank PhotoSlider for his numerous reports as well. I am an easy to please mongerer and most of the guy's 7 would probably be my 8. 5 or 9 but to me some romance goes a long way. So I don't really prefer escort agencies, my P4 P action comes from bars and streets and maybe even Tinder (have to download Mamba), I like to know the girl a bit, have a drink or two with her for an hour, dance with her and then have GFE, at this point she has warmed up to me as well and since money has been decided beforehand she can focus on having fun with me. I'm all about the GFE experience and honestly it's hard for me to maintain "my boy" if she isn't warm or we ain't going at it like lovers instead of a professional relationship. I'm relatively young but I don't consider this an issue GFE turns me on rest doesn't. One of the posters mentioned the clubs are too expensive for local girls but streets are kinder to mongerers. Also I guess strip clubs like Rio are fair game for me as I get to know the girls and have a drink or two with them before going ahead..

Photo Slider (again many thanks for your posts) often mentions he abided by 2000+100 cab fare rule for the escorts should I expect this kind of pricing from the girls I meet while having a night out? I get that girls from strip clubs like Rio will be like 2 X or 3 X the price. I have read around 10 pages of the forum yet and of course will read up a lot more before my trip in the coming months.From my own experience its 2000 UAH + 200 for taxi for an hour (approximately 72 $). In Comparison, multiply by 3 its 211 $ for 3 hours with a girl from Rio. Am just doing the math here be aware that this doesn't include entrance and drinks in the club. But I should mention again that in Rio you don't have the option of 1 or 2 hour, you only get 3 or more.

It all depends on your budget and your needs (and taste ofc). For example, I would invest in a beautiful girl who is also sweet for few hours or maybe even the night rather than having an every day (I don't want to sound objectifying) decent girl.

» I mentioned in my report that mamba is great, the cheapest rates I could get is 50 $/ h for a decent girl (remember that premium might give you and advantage and its not even expensive).

• As for the guy who asked about any Gia girls, I'm sorry to say that non of the girls I saw are still on the website, I guess I bring them bad luck XD (one of them got married, don't ask me how I know) .

However here are 2 names in case they get back:

1. Rita. Fluent English, A cup, slender 165 CM body, really knows what she's doing, a goddess face, perfect for a GFE.

2. Ivana. Blonde, decent English, be cup maybe, less with the GFE more with action itself (might let you do stuff you didn't expect).

Habeed

11-28-18, 21:47

Well, I don't know Russian. But I travel to Kiev this weekend. I have been messaging girls on Ukraine Date and mamba. UKD has so far proven more fertile. I have found about 6 who have agreed to meet: unfortunately I have not been able to pin many of them down on pricing. I think many are semi pros: they didn't stop talking to me when I discussed basically P4 p but they want to meet first. One girl offered 300 USD per day rate, where this would be all night and the morning each day. Alas, she sent some clear recent photos and she is about a 6 to me.

The hottest one I have gotten a response from on mamba won't discuss details until I arrive.

One nasty problem I have seen in this forum thread: if you are a poster who thinks UK is a rip-off / not available hot girls: name the alternative! I can always book my next vacation there. But don't just badmouth this place unless you KNOW a better one.

Gsi2810

11-30-18, 10:24

You will have fun. If you don't embark with expectations of 9's and 10's you won't set yourself up for disappointment. There are beautiful women everywhere in Kiev. Many of them need money and they are open sexually. This is what I like about Kiev as my meetings (mostly off Mamba) include some "getting to know you" time that is off the clock. This is rare in mongering where one hour usually means 60 minutes only. In my experience the women are normally open to be wined and dined off the clock. I rarely ever repeat with escorts but every trip to Kiev I usually meet up with the same ladies several times.

....

From my own experience its 2000 UAH + 200 for taxi for an hour (approximately 72 $). In Comparison, multiply by 3 its 211 $ for 3 hours with a girl from Rio. Am just doing the math here be aware that this doesn't include entrance and drinks in the club. But I should mention again that in Rio you don't have the option of 1 or 2 hour, you only get 3 or more.

It all depends on your budget and your needs (and taste ofc). For example, I would invest in a beautiful girl who is also sweet for few hours or maybe even the night rather than having an every day (I don't want to sound objectifying) decent girl.

....Thank you gentlemen, I still have a over half a year left before my trip will keep this message acrhived for future references. Cheers!

I don't want to seem ungrateful or greedy or someone who doesn't do research but I would be very obliged if we can have a conversation about this, if any of you gentlemen have any tips for Moscow as well unlike Kiev forum I have only read a couple of pages there. My summer 2019 will boil down to Moscow or Kiev. I gather that Moscow is far more expensive but English speaking is a bit common and as one poster said "the level of pussy walking down the street is incredible" Haha.

But the prices seem out of the world, 300 $ or near-about. My obsession with salvic girls began when I first visited Pattaya a few years back. Thai girls are great and all but the girls at the Russian clubs stole my heart with their beauty (of course there were a lot of Ukranian women there as well). The prices quoted in those clubs seemed obscene we are talking 500 $ for an hour or maybe it was 2 hours. The girls of course were stunning, if I were to wear my cheap charlie hat, a flight to BKK and then Pattaya (quite a cheap city) and hotel there is a quite cheap so is it actually worth going to someplace like Pattaya and mongering with the Russian / Ukrainian girls there? I remember reading a post in a forum which stressed that one should never monger with expats and always stick to locals for a better experience.

PhotoSlider

12-01-18, 09:33

From my own experience its 2000 UAH + 200 for taxi for an hour (approximately 72 $). In Comparison, multiply by 3 its 211 $ for 3 hours with a girl from Rio. Am just doing the math here be aware that this doesn't include entrance and drinks in the club. But I should mention again that in Rio you don't have the option of 1 or 2 hour, you only get 3 or more.Negotiations at Rio before the departure establish the length of stay. Could be 2 hours, or could be "till the morning" - which often is interpreted as 5-6 am, and maybe no intercourse upon wake up.

Agency girls tried to extort from me 200 Taxi fee. I insisted on 100, stating that I am a long term customer with special arrangement, and if they don't like it, they can leave. 21 times 100 I get another girl)). My consolidation agency supports me. Besides all agencies are within 100 UAH reach, and I don't care about paying for round trip.

At the same time 9 hours ago I gave 500 tip to a 8-9 girl. There was a nonstop DFK, BBBJ, 69 and great love making in multiple positions all for 1800+100+that tip. I couldn't extend beyond one hour as I had obligations with another young lady this morning. I also gave her that hand lotion that Riina recommended as a small gift.

MagicSheep74

12-01-18, 12:03

One nasty problem I have seen in this forum thread: if you are a poster who thinks UK is a rip-off / not available hot girls: name the alternative! I can always book my next vacation there. But don't just badmouth this place unless you KNOW a better one.Your welcome. If you would like to have sex with a more beautiful girl than you can in Kiev for money, see list below. If you are looking for a long term relationship with a Ukrainian girl, ignore list below.

Club Vive. Madrid.

Brix. Singapore.

Premier. Dubai.

Pigmalion. Madrid.

Club Aphrodisia. Zurich.

New Scandalo. Malaga.

Club Globe. Zurich.

Spasso. Bangkok.

Estark 92 - Malaga Spain.

girlsbcn.com - Barcelona.

Scandallo + Cafe Photo. Sao Paulo Brazil.

FKK Oase. Germany.

Escort privada. Lisbon.

911- Aurora. Moscow.

AntonySun1996

12-01-18, 16:28

Habeed

12-02-18, 07:43

So I saw the girl I thought was a 6. Her pictures were misleading, or maybe she is one of the rare people who goes on a weight loss campaign and actually does it. I'd say she was a 7, maybe 8. I had a better experience with her than any prostitute or sugar baby I have ever met in the United States. Or heck, regular girl. She really worked for that grivna. I mean the main difference was during the 2 hours we had sex (we then went out for dinner after) she actually kept going. Not quitting in the middle because she is slightly sore or a little tired like an American girl (at least the ones I have personally fucked, I only have sampled so many). But she probably didn't do anything that would impress you jaded veterans of the forum, all she did was be very clingy and intimate and dance for me naked and give me a back massage and act like I was giving her an amazing time and basically she didn't do anything that a hooker wouldn't normally do, she was just hotter and more enthusiastic about it, as well as not expecting to be able to just slack off and be lazy after the first time I came.

Habeed

12-02-18, 07:51

Your welcome. If you would like to have sex with a more beautiful girl than you can in Kiev for money, see list below. If you are looking for a long term relationship with a Ukrainian girl, ignore list below.

Club Vive. Madrid.

Brix. Singapore.

Premier. Dubai.

Pigmalion. Madrid.

Club Aphrodisia. Zurich.

New Scandalo. Malaga..Thank you for the list. Quick comment: for an apples to apples comparison, let's suppose you have a strong innate preference for white girls over other ethnicities. So that shrinks your list down. And Moscow is at a high price point than Kiev. A girl of the same hotness for the same time is probably 50% more to double. Anyways I appreciate your legwork. I will google each of these locations and see if any are primarily of the same ethnicity and cost levels as Kiev.

Habeed

12-02-18, 08:52

I will come to Kiev again soon in December and I'm considering staying in this place.

I'm wondering if I would have problem taking my girls inside. Some are working girls some are semi pros. Has anyone had any experience in this hotel? Any information would be appreciated.Antony, Dobo has apartments that right now cost 25-40 USD a night. (I paid 30). And the one I am staying in has several rooms, nice stylish furniture, is very close to the city center, and the staff of the rental agency are extremely helpful and speak English. And it's not even in the same building as the rental agency, there's total privacy. And a king sized bed and a jacuzzi. I am not sure what benefits a hotel can offer over this.

Habeed

12-02-18, 12:48

So what's interesting I have learned is with Ukrainians, there's no such thing as a "done deal" or a fixed price. Though this can go both ways. With this girl, picture attached this time, we agreed on $300 US a day for 10 days, and she agreed to spend her time not at work with me. Like a couple I guess. But now that I have seen her, and she attaches some value to me (I'm the right age range to possibly marry her, am single, live in the US and can offer a visa, not terrible looking and am a white dude), suddenly she's both trying to squeeze me to buy her thousands of dollars of washing equipment and furniture and offering lower prices when I show signs of considering other girls. It's rather interesting how bipolar it is.

AntonySun1996

12-02-18, 20:04

Antony, Dobo has apartments that right now cost 25-40 USD a night. (I paid 30). And the one I am staying in has several rooms, nice stylish furniture, is very close to the city center, and the staff of the rental agency are extremely helpful and speak English. And it's not even in the same building as the rental agency, there's total privacy. And a king sized bed and a jacuzzi. I am not sure what benefits a hotel can offer over this.Thank you for the information. Would share the link to the apartment you mentioned please?

AntonySun1996

12-02-18, 20:08

Thank you for the list. Quick comment: for an apples to apples comparison, let's suppose you have a strong innate preference for white girls over other ethnicities. So that shrinks your list down. And Moscow is at a high price point than Kiev. A girl of the same hotness for the same time is probably 50% more to double. Anyways I appreciate your legwork. I will google each of these locations and see if any are primarily of the same ethnicity and cost levels as Kiev.In non-white cities you can still find white hotties, most of whom came from Russia and Ukraine, in clubs. In many cities in China there are Slavic girls working in karaokes, and some of them are pretty hot.

Guntherus

12-03-18, 01:49

Habeed

12-03-18, 23:09

In non-white cities you can still find white hotties, most of whom came from Russia and Ukraine, in clubs. In many cities in China there are Slavic girls working in karaokes, and some of them are pretty hot.This just seems. Well the first problem is that maybe trafficked sex slaves or overworked brothel workers look the same or better, at least in their clothes and makeup. But they won't have the same attitude! I don't think you're making an apples to apples comparison. This Ukrainian girl I am seeing. And overpaying, yes. Seems to think about me when I'm not with her. She prepares for our sessions and finds places to meet at I would like and seems to make an effort. And she speaks english. And bombards my phones with messages while she's at work and sniffs out other girls I might potentially be seeing.

I examined your entire list. What I saw was that either it was a country where the population is non-white (I feel as a person I am egaltarian but my penis is terribly racist, sexist, ageist, and even biased about facial structure and small behaviors and hair color) and the women in the brothel were imports, or it's a country with a very high cost basis like Switzerland or Russia. Or the FKK clubs, which are an excellent value but they are a factory for sex. Any woman you fuck there has had relations with 5 other dudes that day or more.

The one place I will look into is Moscow. Expensive but if you want to pay for it, pay for the best. And given that the women there would be either locals to the city or drawn from all the other cities and rural areas of Russia. Similar to how LA is in the USA. I would expect cream of the crop. And while $300 USD sounds expensive, try getting a hooker in LA who looks that good for that.

CastOnThis

12-04-18, 00:03

Escalation in Ukrainian conflict against Russia? Any good news? Is Ukraine economy going to tank to levels of the 1990's?

Habeed

12-04-18, 02:20

Thank you for the information. Would share the link to the apartment you mentioned please?It's just "partner guest house". Dobovo has 150 or so apartments they offer listed. They have been decent for me. I have found a tremendous amount of extra stuff that a motel wouldn't have in the apartment (dishes, cleaning supplies, that sort of thing) and the one I am in is stylishly furnished. The receptionist speaks English (and is probably a 9 in hotness, unfortunately I don't think you can pay to fuck her). But I might be a shill, I just recommend you look for an apartment near the centre district that has a decent number of reviews, a high rating, and a decent price for the performance.

Habeed

12-04-18, 03:35

Escalation in Ukrainian conflict against Russia? Any good news? Is Ukraine economy going to tank to levels of the 1990's?Such optimistic thinking. On a serious note, though, so forum-goers say the mongering scene used to be a lot better a few years ago. And I am sure that this observation is correct, but why? Did demographically the whole country get older, or Chinese men (they have a surplus of males) are stealing all the Ukrainian 10's, or what? Economically I read they have only been growing a couple percent a year, putting them at a fraction the GDP and average purchasing power parity of most of us mongers.

AntonySun1996

12-04-18, 23:48

Escalation in Ukrainian conflict against Russia? Any good news? Is Ukraine economy going to tank to levels of the 1990's?While hoping so, I don't think that would be possible.

The Poroshenko regime will not declare war on Russia unless with full support from NATO, which is not the case. Neither will Russia declare war Ukraine because the separatists in eastern Ukraine are already fighting a war for Russia, and Russia will annex Ukraine little by little without getting too much attention. A large scaled war is not desired by both sides.

And IMHO, instead of getting worse, the Ukraine economy would even possibly benefit from the increasingly tense situation in the east, as the US and EU will give Ukraine money to arm themselves to get ready for future potential conflicts (to no avail, of course). Just like how western Europe countries economy benefited from the Marshall plan during the cold war.

AntonySun1996

12-05-18, 00:00

Seems to be some generalizations here.

In non-white countries you can still find Ukrainian girls whose quality can compare the local Ukrainian hotties in Kiev, some times even higher. These girls choose to work abroad because they know they are hot and they could make big money in wealthier countries. Not all of them are trafficked sex slaves or overworked brothel workers as you said, many of them have a decent career and just do escorting for some extra cash.

Not sure about situation in other non-white countries, but at least in China, many Ukrainian and Russia hot girls come here to study, or to be models for clothes companies, but many of them still don't mind getting some extra bucks from having sex with local dudes. I h.

This just seems. Well the first problem is that maybe trafficked sex slaves or overworked brothel workers look the same or better, at least in their clothes and makeup. But they won't have the same attitude! I don't think you're making an apples to apples comparison. This Ukrainian girl I am seeing. And overpaying, yes. Seems to think about me when I'm not with her. She prepares for our sessions and finds places to meet at I would like and seems to make an effort. And she speaks english. And bombards my phones with messages while she's at work and sniffs out other girls I might potentially be seeing.

I examined your entire list. What I saw was that either it was a country where the population is non-white (I feel as a person I am egaltarian but my penis is terribly racist, sexist, ageist, and even biased about facial structure and small behaviors and hair color) and the women in the brothel were imports, or it's a country with a very high cost basis like Switzerland or Russia. Or the FKK clubs, which are an excellent value but they are a factory for sex. Any woman you fuck there has had relations with 5 other dudes that day or more.

The one place I will look into is Moscow. Expensive but if you want to pay for it, pay for the best. And given that the women there would be either locals to the city or drawn from all the other cities and rural areas of Russia. Similar to how LA is in the USA. I would expect cream of the crop. And while $300 USD sounds expensive, try getting a hooker in LA who looks that good for that.

AntonySun1996

12-05-18, 00:39

or Chinese men (they have a surplus of males) are stealing all the Ukrainian 10's, or what? Being a Chinese dude myself, I wouldn't use the word "steal", as it is not the case.

The Chinese mongers have the reputation of being honest, generous, and nice to women in Ukraine's mongering scenes. The Chinese are getting richer and richer and we pay for what we deserve, so no "stealing" is involved here.

Besides, how many Chinese men can you see in Ukraine? After leaving borispil airport the Chinese guys I see on the streets in Kiev everyday can be counted with one hand. I have traveled in most of the countries in Europe and, believe me, Ukraine is one of the countries with fewest Chinese people (more than some bulkan countries perhaps).

On the other hand, while a growing number of Ukrainian girls come to work in China, only few of them have actually chosen to stay and marry local men. Ukrainian girls are quite conservative in this respect and most of them are not willing to move to another country and live there permanently, as a ukrainian girl told me. Some of them are, but at quite a small percentage.

So, instead of blaming the Chinese for stealing UA girls, would wouldn't you just take some walk on the streets in central Kiev and find out who are actually stealing your UA hotties.

Besides, even if we are "stealing" the girls, I would still think it is fair, considering the amount of Chinese girls stolen by white dudes, haha.

Jokes aside, the real problem with Ukraine mongering scene is that the Ukrainians are getting richer and the girls have more decent jobs to choose. Ukraine is still one of the poorest countries in Europe, but the people are no longer as desperate for money as they were in 90's. The 90's were good old days, but this is the new reality we have to accept and get used to. Also, look at the brighter side -- at least there is good thing of mongering in 2018 compared to 90's, which is the fact that the crime rates are lower and you are less likely to be murdered in Kiev by the local mafias.

Habeed

12-05-18, 04:50

Being a Chinese dude myself, I wouldn't use the word "steal", as it is not the case.
The Chinese mongers have the reputation of being honest, generous, and nice to women in Ukraine's mongering scenes. The Chinese are getting richer and richer and we pay for what we deserve, so no "stealing" is involved here.
I apologize. In any case I don't think a significant flow of Ukrainians are permanently moving to China, either. I was being sarcastic, I thought that it was unlikely that demand from China. Which does need all the women it can get. Was a significant factor. And no, if Chinese men can spit game and get Ukrainian 10's to marry them, props to them.

Antony, what I am talking about specifically is the difference in the mongering scene over just the past couple years. Supposedly it's gotten a lot worse, and yet the GDP numbers on Ukraine show only a 2.5% per year rise. So I was just wondering what happened.

Anyways, as a newbie, I don't think I had much difficulty. I've been here- gosh - 4 days. And I have had sex with:

A. A woman in her upper 20's with an underwear model grade body, albeit a few lines on her face, she was the one I overpaid at $300 for about 4 hours each session. Source: UKD.

B. A woman who's 22, has a voice literally like an angel and a pretty face. A semi-pro who apparently needed money. Once I paid her and we fucked she stopped texting for a couple days. Source: UKD.

C. A hooker from UKD. She lied on her profile pics, damage was only $80 and she wasn't bad, just 20 lbs heavier than her pics indicated.

I have noticed that Ukrainians tend to either look incredible and that didn't show up in their pics or look terrible, and their pics are misleading there too. There is no substitute for meeting these women yourself.

So tonight I tried a smaller strip club called Penthouse and Rio. So the advantage of Rio women is you can check them out before fucking them. The downside is that the hottest ones at Rio are not easily available to fuck. Yes, like other mongers have said, most of the girls are Rio aren't 8's and 9's. Lots of lower rated girls. I did see a solid 9, maybe 10 though, got a private dance, and of course learned she is not available. Another 9 was occupied. Finally I got some stripper who wasn't terrible, but with a few lines on her to quote me "300 pounds for several hours or 200 for 1 hour". She of course claimed that this price was the same for all the girls there.

So then I followed a guide on another website about how to get sex in Kiev. And went to Arena City. Naturally at 3 am in the morning on a Tuesday, there were about 4 Eastern European looking men hanging out there. They deduced I was looking for hookers, and showed me a nearby brothel. I didn't like the girls in there, so they invited me to ride in a taxi. Yeah, I got into a taxi with central casting's "Eastern European criminals". But they were quite friendly, and one spoke english, and instead I was taken to another brothel. That had some hotties and a madam who spoke english. Brunette, tall, great body, great face. I'd say solid 7's. And the shocker was when I fucked them. To be fair, I am well endowed and ethnically look like a cousin of them. They would unmistakably heat up and get wet around my penis and I might have made one cum. (yes, all hookers can fake the sounds but it's harder to fake how their vagina responds during a genuine orgasm).

So I fucked a couple girls for a couple hours, at 2500 UAH - $88 USD. A fuck and had a good time. I brought one back to my nice apartment and the other I fucked in the brothel. Factoring in the very low costs for drinks, taxi fare, hotel, food, and so on, I am not even sure you save money doing FKK clubs. Though they are no doubt safer and cleaner.

Oh, and I managed to go on a date with one who is probably out of my league but she wants to go on another date and I guess if it came down to it I would be compelled to marry her. (certain things about her are so attractive that I cannot say anything but yes, though I expect she will find a better western man than me to marry).

AntonySun1996

12-05-18, 17:17

I apologize. In any case I don't think a significant flow of Ukrainians are permanently moving to China, either. I was being sarcastic, I thought that it was unlikely that demand from China. Which does need all the women it can get. Was a significant factor. And no, if Chinese men can spit game and get Ukrainian 10's to marry them, props to them.

Antony, what I am talking about specifically is the difference in the mongering scene over just the past couple years. Supposedly it's gotten a lot worse, and yet the GDP numbers on Ukraine show only a 2.5% per year rise. So I was just wondering what happened.Nominal GDP can be misleading, look at GDP PPP instead.

GDP figures are measured in USD, but grivnas have been constantly depreciating over USD, while the inflation rate in Ukraine has been staying quite low, so the living costs of Ukrainian people are actually getting lower and lower.

Habeed

12-06-18, 13:09

Nominal GDP can be misleading, look at GDP PPP instead.

GDP figures are measured in USD, but grivnas have been constantly depreciating over USD, while the inflation rate in Ukraine has been staying quite low, so the living costs of Ukrainian people are actually getting lower and lower.OK. Checking that chart, it's dipped twice now, once in 2009 and once in 2015. About 10% drops each time. 10% doesn't sound like much, and the relative advantage that mongers from richer countries have should be similar.

My latest foray into these waters, I finally met a 9. But she's one of those girls who wants to marry for a visa. Which honestly I am totally willing to consider. Being a 'good girl', she wouldn't put out on the first date, and amusingly it was actually fairly expensive in local currency to date her. That is, the restaurant bill was about 2100 UAH, which is about 75 USD, and I didn't eat much. So I went to the apartment brothel I had found the night before, fucked 2 different girls for an hour each. One was about a 7, the other about an 8. You know, tall skinny girls. But still with healthy curves. And one clearly had stomach abs. With pretty faces and long lustrous hair and all the rest. Wish I could have taken a photo. Compared to the picking in the USA, these girls were hotter than any hooker or even sugar baby I have ever seen. Yeah, these girls are around, but they are inaccessible in the USA.

Also I found out that the "real" apartment price is 2100 UAH. Or only a slight inflation from the 2 k number reported earlier this thread. Last night, I had been paying 2500 and I did two girls at that price. I think the tout who showed me this particular brothel got a cut. So I got skimmed for $28 USD, LOL.

AntonySun1996

12-07-18, 15:59

OK. Checking that chart, it's dipped twice now, once in 2009 and once in 2015. About 10% drops each time. 10% doesn't sound like much, and the relative advantage that mongers from richer countries have should be similar.Well, I guess that there are significantly different growth rates of the economy in Kiev and in other parts of the country. The capital city has been booming due to the inflow of foreign cashes (from sex tourists in particular), while the smaller cities and rural areas of the country stay poor. I think in China we have the similar problem (to a less extent tho)- cities like Shanghai or Shenzhen are as developed as many major cities in western Europe with even higher living costs, while some provinces in the western part of the country is still in the third world.

Riina

12-08-18, 13:17

Well, I guess that there are significantly different growth rates of the economy in Kiev and in other parts of the country. The capital city has been booming due to the inflow of foreign cashes (from sex tourists in particular), while the smaller cities and rural areas of the country stay poor.Urban areas are almost all growing throughout the world. Kiev is no exception especially with its tech talent and the movement from the East. Sex tourism has been on the decline the last five years.

AntonySun1996

12-08-18, 23:24

Sex tourism has been on the decline the last five years.Or so it seems.

There are no official statistics in regards of amount of sex tourists, but I feel that although some sex tourists have chosen not to go to Ukraine anymore due to the civil war or increasing costs or other factors, this decrease is offset by inflow of new sex tourists thanks to the visitor-friendlier visa policies of the current ukrainian regime. Chinese citizens were granted visa-on-arrival policy two years ago, which opened door for many chinese mongers including myself, and will be granted e-visa next year. Many other nationalities can enjoy the policy too.

PhotoSlider

12-10-18, 19:08

Checking that chart, it's dipped twice now, once in 2009 and once in 2015. About 10% drops each time. 10% doesn't sound like much, and the relative advantage that mongers from richer countries have should be similar...snip...Official GDP doesn't reflect that every other girl in Kiev flashes iPhone X (because otherwise, as I was told by my GF, she is left behind). It also doesn't reflect Porsches, Mercedeses, Lexuses, Bentleys and other luxury cars driven through downtown and in suburbs. And we are not talking cheap old Mercedes, but rather 600 SEL and such.

One may say that all resources of certain particular individuals are invested in iPhones and cars, but this is not the case. There is substantial wealth due to lower cost of consumer basket. Dentists, lawyers, haircuts, good restaurants, apartments rental or ownership, girlfriends, drinks- everything costs less, making one think that developed countries are more successful in milking their own citizen, leaving them with enough money only for Toyota Camry and Honda Accord at best. There are those as well in Kiev, but to my subjective perception density of expensive cars downtown Kiev is higher than in a similar size Western city.

I would also say that total cost of consumer basket has been going up for the last 3-5 years, but anyway, all of the above has been stated to emphasize that official GDP numbers per capita doesn't reflect the actual affairs in Ukraine die to sizable chunk of real GDP still staying in grey shadow.

Just returned from 3 weeks in Kiev. Awesome! Going through the usual rehab. Will try to report, if my blubbering is of any use to Forum.

Wastilein

12-12-18, 18:43

Hi guys,

Is it worth to go for Ukraine for new year?

Do no really have a plan for now. Was just thinking about.

Thanks.

Sebastian.

PhotoSlider

12-13-18, 11:54

Hi guys,

Is it worth to go for Ukraine for new year?

Do no really have a plan for now. Was just thinking about.

Thanks.

Sebastian.AFAIK many students leave for their home towns and villages after passing finals. There will be sufficient action, but some of the regulars from prior visits may not be present.

The city itself is already beautifully decorated. YMMV. If I had a chance for NYEve, I would go. In fact, if I had an opportunity, I would never leave Kiev. For a short term first time visit though, - one may find Kiev cold and empty.

This past 3 weeks visit of mine wasn't that much different from New Year's Eve, at least not weather-wise.

I had 2 failures, one of them was total and complete, short of me kicking the girl out, except she was way too tired falling asleep while undressing, and I was in a peaceful mood.

I also had 9 exceptional ladies, 5 more were acceptably fuckable, and many were repeats from this trip and from not so distant past.

Amazingly incomparable!

Deon12

12-17-18, 21:10

Been lurking this forum for many years and got some really good advises.

I've been mostly to Germany. Frankfurt, Berlin and Hamburg and visited many FKK: s.

Now I am heading to Kiev 26-31 December and wondering if you guys have good recommendation for escorts I can whatsapp with with legit photos?

I've heard there are a lot of fake photos so you have to be aware hence my question if there are links to legit escorts with good service that do incall (I'm sharing apartment so can't be at my place).

Mamba seems a little complicated as then you have to make contact, talk / chat and then maybe dinner and then maybe something more as they say sponsorship, or is Mamba the best way forward if I want a girl every day 27-30 December (4 days = 4 different girls) and should I start mamba now then, what are the chances they do incall compared to escorts announced on the web?

Should I start to whatsapp and getting in contact with escorts now to arrange time and place or is it still too early?

And please, if you have web-links and / or number to girls you know is legit, please share them in this thread.

I am in my mid 30's, athletic, good looking and a dancer if that helps in Kiev?

I will also as I heard that many on this forum complains about members never contribute to the site with their info, will soon post reports from all the FKK's I've been to in Germany with both pros and cons and failures as well to avoid.

DramaFree11

12-18-18, 14:43

Hi guys,

Is it worth to go for Ukraine for new year?

Do no really have a plan for now. Was just thinking about.

Thanks.

Sebastian.The week before News Years is pretty good, but after New Year the city will be dead. Most girls come back around the 15th, but everything is changing in Kiev, so it maybe slightly different, give or take 1 or 2 days.

AntonySun1996

12-19-18, 19:01

I felt a little bored after my Christmas holiday started so here I am, in Kiev again.

The city is quite cold right now with snow everywhere but this is not important.

I'm kinda risk-averse person so instead of meeting new girls, I decided to stick on my current girl friends. However I did make some progress.

Remember in my previous reports I have mentioned that my local agent tried to charge me a highly unfair amount? Not anymore. I added the girl on Instagram and viber and we started to make contacts P2P, cutting the greedy agent off.

We agreed on an amount around $1200 for two days but later made it $1500 for three days. I knew some forum members would still say that I overpaid, but I'm still satisfied about this deal, considering my agent tried to charge me like $3000 to 4000. IMHO it doesn't matter if you overpay or not, what is important is that you gradually get familiar with the games here and get smarter each time to get better deals than your previous trips.

About the girl:

Body 10.

(Height 5'9' with model-like figure, booty ass, long legs, milky pale skin, small tattoos).

Face 7 or 8 ish.

(Not the prettiest face I have seen, but her perfect body makes her imperfection of face totally neglect able. 100% kissable. We enjoy french kisses).

Service 6-10.

(The first day she did pretty well. We had sex several times a day in nearly all possible positions that I could handle, with passion or horniness. The second day went less well. She was angry in the morning for not having slept well and was reluctant to sex, but I took the initiate and she was happy again after a nice orgasm. However from the morning of the third day she became angry and refused to get up. She accused me of touching her boobs and fingering her pussy all night while she was asleep. That accusation, of course, was exaggerated since I just did it a few times because I couldn't control myself not to do that. Anyway, we had some fight and she went back to sleep for almost the whole day. We had a rough sex later in the evening though, when she was happy again.).

I will still be in Kiev for next few days and will meet another girl from my previous trips. Will report if there are any useful stuffs.

Member #4722

12-19-18, 22:01

What happened to Barba and little Joey?

Member #4722

12-19-18, 23:40

Does Mamba not allow VIPs to change location anymore?

PhotoSlider

12-20-18, 21:45

What happened to Barba and little Joey?IMHO one of the frequent reasons for Senior members departure / disappearance from the Forum is simple. They establish a network of reliable female contacts in Kiev, and neither seek help anymore, nor see any sense in posting their reports here.

My last visit was yet again one of the best, although different in the way that I wasn't chasing them women anymore. The opposite happened.

Why didn't I post a report? Well, for many reasons. Would it be useful? Maybe as an essay on the subject, but certainly not as an information source. I cannot post WhatsApp or Viber phone numbers of my contacts. I do exchange with few well respected members via PM in a mutually beneficial manner, and am rather thankful to this Forum for such an opportunity.

The rest has been explained here over and over: GIA / KEC vs. Apartments vs. Rio vs. Websites and so on and so forth.

Waiting for the next visit.

PhotoSlider

12-20-18, 23:04

...We agreed on an amount around $1200 for two days but later made it $1500 for three days. I knew some forum members would still say that I overpaid, but I'm still satisfied about this dealBetter rate than GIA / KEC. $200-300 is OK for 3-6-8 hours, but risky when the girl is new, and precisely for the reasons you explained below.

The first day she did pretty well. We had sex several times a day in nearly all possible positions that I could handle, with passion or horniness. The second day went less well. She was angry in the morning for not having slept well and was reluctant to sexThat is why I try booking an apartment with 2 bedrooms or good sleeping sofa in the living room. Then both myself and my visiting lady can get a good night's sleep. Or sometimes my girlfriend sleeps separately, and I have visitors in the relative privacy of my bedroom)).

but I took the initiate and she was happy again after a nice orgasm. However from the morning of the third day she became angry and refused to get up. She accused me of touching her boobs and fingering her pussy all night while she was asleep. That accusation, of course, was exaggerated since I just did it a few times because I couldn't control myself not to do that.Hehehe. Exactly! I am the same, and try to sleep separately, or no one is rested in the morning.

In my many years only a handful of girls were constantly horny. One of them, employed at GIA at the time, was all smiles whenever I woke her up, but that is rare.

Another GIA-employee didn't allow me to depart to the other bedroom, yet towards the end of our 10 days "tenure", she asked literally:

- Don't you ever get tired of this? Where do you find this level of energy?

She likewise tried to decline on our last day right before leaving, then succumbed, but looked tormented during the act. Fortunately it didn't hurt my feelings or fragile male ego, but helped to decide not to seek this particular lady anymore. In fact I realized that 2-3 days together is realistically the reasonable limit for staying together.

And yet another GIA employee tried to extort cash while not delivering in bed, thinking too much of the control her beauty, femininity and sharp brains had over me. Her reckless behavior resulted in my sooner and more frequent than usual promiscuity, while she was at work in the office. This was followed by rather abrupt eviction and no further contact attempts.

Anyway, we had some fight and she went back to sleep for almost the whole day. We had a rough sex later in the evening though, when she was happy again.).Make no mistake. She certainly liked $1500 she made, and wanted to leave a good final impression, so that you would return.

At least you were in Kiev, and could have diversified at any moment. Imagine how much more leverage she would have had over you, if it happened on the trip together somewhere else. Still I know one successful gentleman, who never hesitates to politely kick them out lazy cheaters, -- being it in Kiev, or Thailand (with Ukrainian girl), or anywhere else.

It is always a game of the girl testing how little she can get away with. Some are more open and passionate on the second encounter, while others became too spoiled and lazy. And I don't want to fight or explain. It is not my place to teach them a lesson. So much easier to say goodbye, ignore, block in Viber+IG, and invite another willing one. So far it's possible in Kiev.

One important question though: did you pay her the whole fee upfront? I wouldn't.

It is fine line though. Some of us pre-negotiate all the conditions in detail. I prefer to see how much I can gain, as the action unfolds. Than it gives me more pleasure. But few things are mandatory, and by quality of initial kissing and touching I can quickly assess how good it is going to be, even before we make it to bed.

Going on the tangent here, my favorite call girl 3 weeks ago in Kiev was on her first day working. After exiting from the shower, she took a seat on my bed, sipped champagne and said (with a noticeable concern):

- They do not let us kiss.

I responded in a very respectful manner:

- Yes, I most definitely understand and respect that.

Then touched her lips tenderly with mine, and in a split of a second we went for a long DFK. What can be better? Not even a DATY with the girl who initially firmly refused.

This September I had 3 new girls one after another progressing to a complementary DATY. Typically agency asks for 500-1000 UAH on top of the regular hourly fee. One girl had an audacity to demand an extra pay for touching her breasts. Or was it kissing them? Do not remember anymore.

And this November-December trip has been great in a sense that most girls were willing to meet bypassing the agency dispatchers. Again, complimentary DFK, DATY with half of them, and on some occasions, - a passionate 69 with BBBJ, twice even to completion.

With one beauty I didn't dare to come, and in the heat of the moment asked her:

- Do you realize how difficult it was for me to restrain myself, and not come in your mouth?

She smiled and answered:

- No, I actually do not.

I will still be in Kiev for next few days and will meet another girl from my previous trips. Will report if there are any useful stuffs.Please do. You are sincere in your observations, which makes them worthwhile sharing.

Kirch

12-22-18, 10:02

You are totally right Photoslider. Same for me, I am one of them who were trying to convince that Rio. In the end. Is the better deal. But no understanding and of course different tastes. I am here for 2 weeks again (after about 15 visits this year) and don't post anymore. I am more relaxed here and the same happens to me, I am not hunting anymore. I go out with friends here with no expectations and get to know new girls. And every once and a while I hit Rio like last week. She stayed entire Night and we left Rio at 08:30 pm (She left my Hotel at 01:00 pm next day. 400 USD for whole Night, that's 25 USD / HR. And she was (in my eyes) a 9! So I like Kiev nowadays, it has changed. But I like this change and I come even more often.

IMHO one of the frequent reasons for Senior members departure / disappearance from the Forum is simple. They establish a network of reliable female contacts in Kiev, and neither seek help anymore, nor see any sense in posting their reports here.

My last visit was yet again one of the best, although different in the way that I wasn't chasing them women anymore. The opposite happened.

Why didn't I post a report? Well, for many reasons. Would it be useful? Maybe as an essay on the subject, but certainly not as an information source. I cannot post WhatsApp or Viber phone numbers of my contacts. I do exchange with few well respected members via PM in a mutually beneficial manner, and am rather thankful to this Forum for such an opportunity.

The rest has been explained here over and over: GIA / KEC vs. Apartments vs. Rio vs. Websites and so on and so forth.

Waiting for the next visit.

AntonySun1996

12-25-18, 00:18

One important question though: did you pay her the whole fee upfront? I wouldn't.No I don't. I don't mind paying upfront, but she since she didn't mention it, so I gave her the money in the last day.

Kozerog

12-25-18, 05:16

I don't mind paying upfront, but she since she didn't mention it, so I gave her the money in the last day.And I don't mind when guys richer than me pay more than I can afford. Word gets out that there is big money to be earned from sex tourists and that makes more girls willing to be semi-pros, which is good for all of us. Yes, the rumors of $1500 for 3 days might cause some girls to raise their rates, but they will soon find the supply of big spenders is not that large and so lower their rates back to a level I can afford.

What I mind is when market participants encourage bad behavior, which exactly what paying in advance does. Losses due to bad behavior cause the marketplace to shrink as everyone adjusts prices to compensate (girls raise their prices, mongers lower theirs) so that the market no longer clears. Fine example is DramaFree11. Wants to monger, can afford going rates, assigns very high cost to feeling of being cheated, and since cheating is so common in Kyiv, finally abandoned the market entirely.

There is absolutely no reason to pay for three days in advance, and also no reason to delay payment until the third day. I wouldn't accept such delay if I was the girl. Pay one day at a time, money on the table until end of day. You were lucky this time, but you really need to put your foot down in the future.

The argument I plan to use, assuming I ever have to replace my jewel, is that only cheap restaurants like McDonald's make you pay in advance. At fine restaurants, you pay after eating. Does the girl think of herself as cheap takeout or fine dining? Before she can reply, I will offer to put money on the table until end of session, bills spread out out so they can be counted by eye. I didn't need to use the preceding argument with my jewel, since she understood immediately what I was up to: money was spread out on the table when she arrived, she had the good manners to leave it there until she was packing up to leave, and that's how we operated ever since. Back when I was using those hidden agencies, I also didn't use the preceding argument but rather had the girl call the agency and then shouted into the phone that either money remained on table until end of session or deal was off. Shouting like that not exactly the way to make a good first impression on a girl, of course.

And no, do not ever put money in an envelope. Either spread bills so they can be counted by eye or insist that girl count in your presence. Reason is YOU might make an error. If so and girl doesn't notice until later, then either she says nothing and feels wronged or she tells you and you suspect her of lying. Bad deal all around. Always count cash in front of the other person, for any type of business.

Tigers12

12-25-18, 17:47

Misterxxx

12-25-18, 23:38

Hi gents,

Looks like very seasoned hunters are gathering here. Please show me some direction. This spring I am going to tour Europe. Main purpose is sight seeing and the cultural experience but I am also attracted to the beauties of eastern Europe. Not looking for 10's or 9's either. Average looking are fine. I am 42, average looking dude. I have been to Frankfurt as a tourist before and hit the bahnhofsviertel and loved it. I mostly walk around sightseeing all day and when opportunity shows up, I take advantage. So with that being said, I ll be in Kiev for 3 nights. My usual accommodation was hostels in the past. What I read here and there about the Kiev suggest that I should def. Stay in an apartment if I want some ass. I can't decide if I should go to that route or stay in an hostel and hit the establishments to get some action. I also would like to see the club scene. I am not sure if it would be a problem to return to a hostel at 4 am in the morning. If I get an apartment I can go in and out whenever I want I guess. So generally speaking an advise about where should I stay in Kiev would be appreciated.

My plan is simple, walk the city and if I spot a decent looking working (better if she is part time and 20's) chick, approach, talk, deal, take her to the apartment.

Night time: Hit the clubs, see the game, enjoy the night without getting shitface. Approach, talk, deal, take her to the apartment.

This plan is somewhat based on what I was able to gather from the internet. If I get some action once a day I am all set. I usually don't rest just walk around visiting the museums etc, therefore I don't have the thirst or energy to do it like a jack rabbit. What you guys say?The problem is: Kiev has no "Bahnhofsviertel" and no red light district. Strip clubs are everywhere. But the strip clubs are not at the price level of a "Laufhaus" in the Bahnhofsviertel of Frankfurt.

Of course you can live in a hostel and visit different model addresses. But the price of the girls will surprise you. In the center it is difficult to find a good-looking and (very) cheap hooker.

Walking around the city and looking for working women sounds easy. But you should not think that the city is full of cheap and willing girls. 20 years ago, you just had to walk near the big hotels. In the evening. There were always dozens of prostitutes on the roadside. Not today. Near the "Mc Donalds" (an advice in the forum) there are only normal, hungry people. Students who don't have to work as a prostitute. There might be the chance to find some awful milfs on drugs. But not the beautiful student who needs 1000 hrivna.

There is a street in the Podil district. And different exits on highways. There you will find cheap hookers. But to find these women you need a car. Many sex tourists think that every woman who looks at them is a hooker. Searching for clients. But in reality, most girl only think negatively: Another sex tourist. A weird guy. Another nasty Arab. Finally: Your plan will not work. Or you have to prepare well, search for a long time. And at the same time lowering your demands on the quality of women.

If a hostel is your budget then the girls in the clubs will be too expensive for you. $ 50? Forget it. The first offer is usually 200-300 dollars. Then it depends on you and the situation if you have to pay less. You look good and have good manners? Then the price goes down. Or the woman needs money. Very urgent. Still, $ 100 is the minimum in the clubs. Rather, calculate it with 150 or 200 dollars. But here too, it depends on the quality you are looking for. The really good clubs may not let you in at all. Doormen can be cruel.

Internet? I hope you do not trust on various pages with beautiful models. These are all fakes. Many sites still have prices of 500 UAH per hour. With a call you will be told the real price. Which woman will come? A gamble. You call for an 18 year old, slim, blonde student. Who comes? A 35 year old MILF, 20 kilos too much. Maybe a little drunk. Or smelling bad. Or, suddenly, money is required for each additional service. Lick? + 1000 blowjob without a condom? +1000 and so on.

In 2014 or 2015, you would have had a chance. But today only the big show, expensive clothes and money counts.

PhotoSlider

12-26-18, 01:43

The problem is: Kiev has no "Bahnhofsviertel" and no red light district. Strip clubs are everywhere. But the strip clubs are not at the price level of a "Laufhaus" in the Bahnhofsviertel of Frankfurt.

...snip...

Internet? I hope you do not trust on various pages with beautiful models. These are all fakes. Many sites still have prices of 500 UAH per hour. With a call you will be told the real price. Which woman will come? A gamble. You call for an 18 year old, slim, blonde student. Who comes? A 35 year old MILF, 20 kilos too much. Maybe a little drunk. Or smelling bad. Or, suddenly, money is required for each additional service. Lick? + 1000 blowjob without a condom? +1000 and so on.

In 2014 or 2015, you would have had a chance. But today only the big show, expensive clothes and money counts.It is not as bad, but outcome for Tiger12 would be the same: complete and utter failure.

3 days in Kiev? https://kievescort.club/ is one option, but it assumes you have substantial amounts of cash (more than average monger), and invite the lady of choice to your place. Hostel ain't going to work. You are daydreaming.

Visiting apartment brothels would also most likely result in disappointment.

Strip clubs are expensive, and are only good in extracting money from you, selling you the pursuit of happiness, not the actual happiness.

Going trough the streets, or visiting clubs? Why would the girls be interested in you? Most likely you don't speak local language. Another recipe for failure and disappointment. And not because everybody cheats in Kiev. But because your expectations are set wrong. Imagining a free paradise, but instead seeing empty streets, or face (shoes) control and closed doors, and rejection again and again.

I made 2 trips in the last 4 months: first was for 5 weeks with 1-2-3 call girls a day for 1500-2100 UAH / hour. Then second trip was for 3 weeks with 1 girl a day on average. The latter was mostly with contacts I established over years of travel to Kiev. The former was mostly with call girls, and again not through the websites, but rather scouting multiple agencies via Viber. And I am very happy with both trips.

I am significantly older than 42, and am average looking. There are other subtle differences though. I do not roam the streets, thinking of luring the beauties in my bed. In fact I tried, and nothing happened)) but I do have repeat visits with classy providers. Some of them I want to see again and again, and do not want to stop. Prices vary from 1500-2500 UAH / hour to 2000 for overnight for very decent ladies. That type of action is not achieved in 3 days trip, and nobody here on Forum will give out freebies.

Sightseeing in Kiev for 3 days. Yeah, sure, go for it. Great time. You ain't get much traction mongering wise though, unless approach is changed completely.

DramaFree11

12-26-18, 03:16

The problem is: Kiev has no "Bahnhofsviertel" and no red light district. Strip clubs are everywhere. But the strip clubs are not at the price level of a "Laufhaus" in the Bahnhofsviertel of Frankfurt.

Of course you can live in a hostel and visit different model addresses. But the price of the girls will surprise you. In the center it is difficult to find a good-looking and (very) cheap hooker.

Walking around the city and looking for working women sounds easy. But you should not think that the city is full of cheap and willing girls. 20 years ago, you just had to walk near the big hotels. In the evening. There were always dozens of prostitutes on the roadside. Not today. Near the "Mc Donalds" (an advice in the forum) there are only normal, hungry people. Students who don't have to work as a prostitute. There might be the chance to find some awful milfs on drugs. But not the beautiful student who needs 1000 hrivna..Very Good Repot. Guys should pay attention to this report. Detailed and honest. Thank you!

Kozerog

12-26-18, 21:56

Not looking for 10's or 9's either. Average looking are fine. I am 42, average looking dude.

I spot a decent looking working (better if she is part time and 20's) chick, approach, talk, deal, take her to the apartment.
Just how low is your budget? Cheap hostels in Kyiv are for young Ukrainian workers from the provinces. These are like $2/ day and people are wandering in and out at all hours because they work all hours. Like 3rd class "platskarta" on the railways. If you really want to see how the Ukrainian proletariat lives, a Ukrainian hostel is good place to stay. Don't expect anyone to speak much English.

There are also hostels that are as expensive as Airbnb apartments that cater to goofy westerners who like to run up their notch count of cities / countries visited. If the is any chance you will be meeting a local woman, get an Airbnb apartment. $30/ night has plenty of options.

It is possible to meet English speaking pros on the street. I was accosted by one this past summer. Mid 30's or older, overweight, not particular pretty face, pleasant enough personality, typical middle aged Ukrainian woman. I have no idea what she wanted in the way of money, since she didn't interest me, but $100 for a couple hours that afternoon would surely have been enough. Maybe $50. Maybe she needed drug money fast. Didn't look like a drug user, but you never know.

You are unlikely to get civilians in their 20's in 3 days. What you could get is civilians in their late 30's to mid 40's, the proverbial horny MILF trying to live it up one last time before menopause hits. But you'd probably need Russian, since English levels in that age group are poor. Plus you'd need to be a skilled seducer, because civilian Ukrainians have aversion to being considered "easy lays" and usually demand several dates before sex. Offering money just makes things worse, because now her aversion to being considered a prostitute is aroused. Most women fantasize about being highly paid prostitutes, but at the same time, civilians are usually terrified of the label. Short time frame you are operating under will likely cause her to take the safe way out of saying "Nyet!

If you really want to go after civilians, avoid city center. Get your apartment in someplace like Pozniaky and walk around there during the day, try to strike up conversations with middle aged women showing very strong indications of interest. Given your time limits, you need to be ruthless about dumping women who are not clearly down to f*ck immediately. Ask them if they want to come by your apartment right away and share a bottle of wine. If no, move on. This is known as "day game" among pickup artists, and amounts to walking around like a street peddlar crying "Any women want some dick! I got dick if any women want dick! Dick here, come and get it!" Given the low levels of English among these women, I predict you will get nowhere even if you're a master pickup artist.

Another possibility is couch surfing events. Those women are westernized and so may not insist on dating before sex. Young but as horrible as their hipster counterparts in the west: tattooed, short hair, nose rings, unbathed, etc. I see no reason to travel to Ukraine for that sort of human rubbish.

Tigers12

12-26-18, 23:47

Holy Shit! You guys are expert I am nowhere near to in the same league. OK thanks for the response and quick reality check. Just completed my bookings and spending 2 full day and flying to another city in Europe. And yes, I am staying in a hostel. Considering how little chance I have, I didn't really bother with the apartments because the logistics, getting the keys, etc seems much harder and complicated. I speak no Russian / Ukrainian either. I guess this one would be more like a checking thing out. I'll definitely let you guys know what I have observed. With that hostel move, I am limited to saunas or brothels if I can locate them and if they going to be less than average, well what the heck.

I have few more downsides. I don't use smart phone therefore viber, tinder etc. Not my common grounds.

Another one. I used to be a big time clubber in my younger days, dressing very sharp to impress and all that, which certainly works. Now days I take long tours in EU, moving swiftly from place to place more like a backpacker mode. I have no luggage therefore I carry very limited clothing with me. I can t pack a dress shoe or a slack pants or a blazer jacket. Single pair of shoe maybe few extra shirts, T-shirt. This strategy may bite me in the ass at the club doors. The Kiev club scene doesn't look promising anyway. Even the clubs own advertisements uploads shows limited crowd and sausage fest.

I'll do my best, if I can find a decent apartment brothel, it may be my best bet.

I 'l be spending some time in few other cities as well. Prag, Budapest. Few different cities in NL. Depending on my mood I can check some places in this cities as well.

The budget situation, I am not really broke but the way I travel, hostels works best for me. I pick the most centrally located ones and it makes walking around in a limited time doable. If you try to get similarly located hotels, forget it. I leave the place very early and come back late just to crush. Believe it or not I find them very sociable as well but being 42, you generally feel out of bracket. $100 or $150 for quick fix would do for me. A stunner? Maybe 200 but wouldn't do that every day. I can see myself enjoying the windows in NL or other German cities. Since I am not up to doing home work via internet, apps etc, this route and saunas massage parlors seems to be my type I guess. You guys rock though, respect.

PhotoSlider

12-27-18, 01:04

...I have few more downsides. I don't use smart phone therefore viber, tinder etc. Not my common grounds...You have one advantage in your approach. Relative honesty. You are not going to Kiev strictly to get laid.

But without an apartment, smartphone, local language and adequate attire, - perhaps windows shopping is going to be the limit of your entertainment. There's a plenty of beautiful girls in Kiev, and you would be OK with just people watching, as long as you are not disappointed that none of them are yours, not even for a limited time.

The main question then, - why bother? There are other tourist locations in the world where there is no mongering.

Don't get me wrong please, Kiev is very interesting historically, architecturally, gastronomically and otherwise. But it is not cheap. Self-imposed artificial limitations means no sex. Ordering a girl for takeout at sauna is complicated, and with emergence of messengers it is an archaic approach, long time gone. HJ at massage place likewise is a mediocre substitute for a real thing. And enough said about clubs already. Kiev is not a Western city, it operates differently.

Miracles still happen, but without smartphone and local contacts you are bound to incur expenses without reaching the goal.

You want to spend 100-200 USD or EUR on a single pop, yet you are very cheap with the place where you are going to sleep. I would do the opposite, - AirBnB for an apartment, as Kozerog suggests. Yes you are used to stay at hostels, but $30-40/ night with superhost should be easy to arrange. Most of them speak passable English, no hassle with keys, not even for a 2-3 days trip. Then $50-$70 an hour for good call girls, and keep ordering them until a good one arrives. Based on my experience, should take no more than 3-5 takes, and you don't even have to pay 100 UAH taxi fee, if you don't like the candidates.

IMHO smartphone is a must though these days.

If it's too late to change your hostel plans, then simply enjoy tourist attractions, and come again in May, when girls are in shirt skirts and otherwise more revealing clothes.

Riina

12-27-18, 01:22

I need two things to play sugar daddy in my US city. A really nice car and a really nice centrally located place. If you're in Kiev, you don't need the car, but you do need the place. Most of the girls I date live in the suburbs with family, I can hook them to hang around by setting up a personal crash pad in the city where they can break from the world and feel comfortable. Hostels and hotels would lower me to only transactions with hard prostitutes.

PhotoSlider

12-27-18, 01:53

And I don't mind when guys richer than me pay more than I can afford. Word gets out that there is big money to be earned from sex tourists and that makes more girls willing to be semi-pros, which is good for all of us. Yes, the rumors of $1500 for 3 days might cause some girls to raise their rates, but they will soon find the supply of big spenders is not that large and so lower their rates back to a level I can afford.

What I mind is when market participants encourage bad behavior, which exactly what paying in advance does. Losses due to bad behavior cause the marketplace to shrink as everyone adjusts prices to compensate (girls raise their prices, mongers lower theirs) so that the market no longer clears.

...snip...

And no, do not ever put money in an envelope. Either spread bills so they can be counted by eye or insist that girl count in your presence. Reason is YOU might make an error. If so and girl doesn't notice until later, then either she says nothing and feels wronged or she tells you and you suspect her of lying. Bad deal all around. Always count cash in front of the other person, for any type of business.This is another fine example of Kozerog's analytical mind at his best! I didn't notice him being that aggressive in the past though, but agree. Our hard earned cash should be protected, not wasted absentmindedly.

I do a mix. If it is a known hourly agency, then I pay the girl upon arrival in the taxi or on the sidewalk. Yes, it is a substantial risk, but I have a reputation, my consolidation dispatchers do a pre-screening, I also have the initial discussion in the car before making the choice and executing initial transaction. I always have 2 girls to chose from, and at least one is rejected. 20% of cases both are sent back for various reasons: rude, tired, not elegant enough, etc. And the girl that stays turns out satisfactory in about 70-80% of cases. 25-30% are great, and I extend those, sometimes within the first 20-30 minutes of interaction, even before the actual intercourse starts.

I prefer not having clearly visible money around in my apartment, neither with new acquaintances and complete strangers, not with repeat visitors. Doing transaction in taxi allows me to get the sales aspect out of both minds. Mine and lady's, and focus on seduction so to speak (she seduce me, and the other way around).

Yet, Kozerog raises a good point about counting. Some girls cheat. You also can make a mistake. I double and triple count, and have in the separate pocket only the amount for 1 hour + 100 UAH taxi fee. Once, however, a girl that I rejected, took the money (they always do for a delivery back to mamasan, unless it is the driver) and declared that I shorted her by 500 UAH. I calmly explained that she is wrong. She insisted, asked forcefully the girl that was about to go to my apartment if she counted. She didn't, because she was new, and didn't learn all the tricks yet. I didn't flinch, and eventually "missing" 500 has been found. But this was one attempt at cheating out of more than a 100.

Another case, one day later, the girl said that I mistakenly gave her too much - 500 more. That also happens in Kiev.

With GIA / KEC and similar agencies where the girl comes in for multiple hours and 150-200-300 USD or even more, I check how personable the newly arriving lady is, and first of all if she kisses and wants to stay closer. If not, I explain that "the exit door is right here, next to the entrance to the shower room", where she is about to go. Usually, within the first 15 minutes or so, I decide if it is a go or good-bye now.

Any attempt by the girl to dictate that she is the princess, and I should follow her command is met with a smile and dismissed. Only mutual respect and attraction, or a good play by the actress and a sincere desire to have sex lead to payment. GIA / KEC expects payment in advance, or rather before the lady is consumed.

If the meeting is with a well known contact and not through the agency anymore, then either the rules of engagement are negotiated long time ago, or right before the meeting, and then I always pay in the envelope at the end of the meeting.

On another occasion with a well known and extremely pleasant young lady, upon getting close to the end of our meeting I counted, it seemed like 300 USD, gave it in the open, she counted, and in her hands it somehow turned out being 400 (crispy new banknotes). Well, I made a point of giving more than usual, and out of her own immense gratitude she decided to stay overnight instead of departing immediately. Her moaning and 20 years old legs making a V towards the ceiling is a sight difficult to erase from the memory. Tremendously talented lady!

Another aspect is money transfer (wire or Western Union or via smartphone) beforehand. I would only do it with the girl that I know, and even that for a limited amount to make travel arrangements for seeing me. Any fairy tales about seek grandma and medication and lost this and that lead to silence or blocking.

Guntherus

12-27-18, 10:10

I find a smartphone o (or tablet) essential to communicate, find directions, order tickets etc. Saves time and money. Without it, there maybe the best strategy to really look like a foreigner in K-street / outside Besarabska market, the Pimpers will find you, day and night, and take you to apartment. Day game is of course cheaper, but time consuming and bad result.

Tigers12

12-27-18, 15:14

PhotoSlider

12-27-18, 17:23

I do lot of homework with my laptop before I travel, take notes, print out directions, bookings etc. One big downside is if you mess up, lets say miss a flight or reservation cancelled, you become pretty much stranded with limited search ability. No problem so far, I just go with the flow. Tablet sounds like a decent idea. I figure, that approach of employing the technology for the benefit of mongering is one notch ahead of me. Don't give me wrong, I am putting many hours to locate targets (locations and establishments) but still not ready to step up my game and set up appointment etc. With that hostel booking, its almost impossible anyway.Getting the girl in Kiev is interactive. Hence smartphone messengers. Difficult to arrange in advance. Only established well known contacts may provide some guarantee, and even that is with 80-95% certainty. Most of the girls will have 2-3 questions:

- How are you?

- Are you in Kiev?

- What do we agree upon?

The last question may be asked about sex options, but it doesn't matter. Ultimately all they care about is money- how much will be earned and kept.

If there is no smartphone, there will be no interaction, even if in the beginning she (a girl or dispatcher) was interested in you. Easier to find someone else compliant and convenient.

Airbnb is a great idea, some hosts looks really inviting judging their pictures. Almost makes you thing they are providing something more than the bed and room but there seems to be no way of knowing if she is a better half of a couple trying to make few extra bucks.Few comments about AirBnb:

Quality of apartment is judged by the pictures (of the apartment, not the host).

More important are reviews. Read them carefully, all of them.

I prefer superhosts.

Host may flirt with the customer a little bit, but it is highly unlikely to go any further. Again, the reason are reviews, and general attitude. Hosts are not in business of selling themselves, in fact usually they are too busy managing multiple properties. Even massage girls do not provide the actual sex, and take certain pride in that.

Street pimps. Possible to get the shitty end of the stick? I am far from being a paranoid person, I am not asking if I am going to wake up without my kidney or anything but the honey trap is one of the oldest trick on the book for the crooks right? Again it is probably the only source for me, I'll check to see if I can get a few good address from a local first. If not, I would be willing to take more risk and follow a pimp to a unknown location.Risk is not so much crime (that happens too, but not as frequently as say in China). The problem is services quality, price and your time.

I would do AirBnB and KEC or Rio. These are two somewhat reliable options. They are not cheap, but within your reach. Perhaps Rio, as you can test drive the candidates before committing.

Kozerog

12-28-18, 00:50

Airbnb is a great idea, some hosts looks really inviting judging their pictures. Almost makes you thing they are providing something more than the bed and room but there seems to be no way of knowing if she is a better half of a couple trying to make few extra bucks.
Guys have been permanently banned from AirBnb, with no right of appeal, because of allegations, backed by flimsy evidence, of having sexually propositioned their hostess. Don't shit where you eat.

I didn't notice him being that aggressive in the past though,
Only shouted at the mamasan like that once. This was my first time with an agency and I wasn't aware girl would have the bad manners to immediately pick up money lying on the table, ready for counting by eye (500 uah notes). I asked if this was agency policy or hers. She said agency, so I ordered her to call them, then bellowed furiously into the phone that I wanted money to remain on the table into end of session. Thereafter, I was careful to specify in the viber negotiation with agencies what I expected.

That whole experience was quite memorable. As noted, that was my first agency girl in Kyiv (previous girls had been true independents). I was stressed out from Soviet style customer service by various agencies I was concurrently texting with. Probably a lot of the stress was my own fault: working myself up over nothing, as I often do. Then when the girl arrived, she was literally quivering from stress of her own when I met her outside. I noticed this and some demonic impulse took over inside me. Instead of trying to placate her, I approached without smiling and said gruffly: "I said on street, this yard. " I'm translating directly from Russian, since she didn't speak English. As everyone can see, basic Russian sounds very crude, caveman-like, due to the lack of articles like in English. There are ways to soften Russian with diminutives particles (nu, zhe, etc), negative questions, conditional mood, etc but at that time I didn't know all that. So indeed my speech was caveman like.

I grunted and walked ahead to the entrance. Up six flights of gloomy stairs, smelling of garbage as usual in these cheap apartment blocks. Then bellowing at the mamasan about the money. When the girl came out of the bathroom, I was holding a bottle of vodka a previous girl had asked me to buy but which she never drank. I never drink myself, but in this case I pretended to take a big swig, then coughed, and roared in bad Russian: "yobannoe ajenstvo colgalo, kak kupeetch turyrtsky covyor! Meaning something like "fucking agency lied, like buying turkish rug!" Meanwhile, there I was putting on a good imitation of the stereotype brutish patron of a Turkish sex slave brothel, or perhaps brutal drunken Cossack. Girl lay down stiffly on the bed, continuing to tremble all over, trying to numb herself out for the ordeal that awaited.

At this point, I changed tactics. Started the music, one of Morton Feldman's quiet multi hour late pieces, while lightly caressing her. She continued to tremble for a while, then gradually relaxed. After about an hour, I noticed her nipples swelling, so I put on a condom and pushed her legs apart. Teased her for a long time, just penetrating a tiny bit until I could sense she was coming, then finally thrust all the way in as she came.

Afterwards, she was much friendlier, though she never allowed kissing on the lips. Didn't matter, since she was a smoker. I asked if she liked escorting. "I hate it," she replied. I laughed long and loudly: "Yes, that obvious. " She was about 22, or almost 40 years younger. Some junky university degree in business. Pretty enough because of her youth, but the sort of slavic beauty that fades fast and hard with age.

I prefer not having clearly visible money around in my apartment, neither with new acquaintances and complete strangers, not with repeat visitors. Doing transaction in taxi allows me to get the sales aspect out of both minds. Mine and lady's, and focus on seduction so to speak (she seduce me, and the other way around).
Well we differ, and that's good. What a boring world if we were all the same! I specifically prefer money clearly visible because I think it is the best aphrodisiac for the girls I am compatible with. My jewel, for example, is very business oriented. Always has schemes going to earn money other than from escorting: buying land in the village, internet arbitrage sales (buy trinkets cheap in China, sell for slightly more in Ukraine), etc. I know nothing touches her heart more than the sight of crisp 500 uah or 100 usd notes neatly lined up on the table. Reminds me of myself when I was her age and obsessed with getting rich quick. The daughter I never had.

More seriously, reason I am so adamant about money on table until end of season is as follows. Escort girls are fundamentally lazy, that's why they picked that profession. Until money is actually in their purse, at the back of their mind is the idea that client might possibly refuse to hand over money and raise a big stink with the agency if she doesn't please him. Yes, agency has enforcers to deal with troublesome clients, but that involves time, during which girl is earning nothing, plus agency will likely blamed her as being the source of the trouble and perhaps not give her as many bookings in the future. Easy way out is thus to cooperate with the man.

I am less worried about American-style snatch-and-run, meaning taking money and leaving without providing any service, than about bad service.

Similar logic is why I also strongly advocate only contracting for sessions of one hour, but with option to extend session to multiple hours of all goes well. You have evidently developed a good system and good instincts for screening girls within first few minutes of the session. I doubt I'd be able to equal you in this respect.

As for girl staying overnight as bonus for giving her extra money, that seems like a booby prize to me. I enjoy my sessions with my jewel, maybe I even love her, to the extent I am still capable of that emotion, but after fours hours I want to be alone again. Solitude is my natural and happiest state.

PhotoSlider

12-28-18, 04:22

...You have evidently developed a good system and good instincts for screening girls within first few minutes of the session...Obviously the system is not perfect, but good enough for me in Kiev. I do get incompatible ones admitted to my bedroom, and 1 out of 15 or so is kicked out. On two occasions I even pulled the dick out, and threw the condom away in a rather foolish manner. Not a classy move on my part.

Sometimes, when the girl starts upselling extras, I say with a smile: "Vygonyu seichas! Will kick you out right now!" and they always stop. Also, I ask consolidation dispatchers if they want my feedback on visiting girls, and they always say yes please. They do like when I am happy, a matter of a personal pride for dispatcher. At the same time, the usual response to my complaints is a fake surprise:

- Strange to hear! She has only good responses from the customers.

Never heard about the girl blamed after the fact. Sometimes and very seldom, prior to cab delivery to my door for casting, dispatcher may politely suggest to pick a different girl, saying that the one I fancied is either tired, or even having a "star fever", getting too popular and feeling a little entitled.

Other than that it is the statistical game of random numbers. In Kiev it is in my favor sufficiently enough.

You also mentioned that I recover quickly. This last visit I wasn't so happy after three strike outs in a row, and stayed away from the agency for a about a week, enjoying visits from regulars. But my last 36 hours in Kiev worked out beautifully, 5 girls total, and the final delivery accord from the agency was truly an icing on the cake.

It started with a succession of 3 long term girls, that I knew very good, they trusted me, and those were quite affordable arrangements with pleasant interactions.

One of them decided to stay overnight, which I welcome, because I like taking them fresh and warm in the morning, not cold from the cab and snow outside. There was a funny moment in the morning. While she was taking the shower after sleepover, I prepared good breakfast. She exited wrapped in the towel, and I asked if she would like to have the breakfast first? She looked at me in a curious manner, almost saying:

- Don't you know what I want first?

Took me by the hand, and led away from the kitchen into the bedroom.

At midnight I was done with these three long term classy ladies, and had my Kiev friend asking to get a girl for himself. That was 7 hours before the departure to the airport, and I was not done packing yet.

I ordered two hours from consolidators. Picked a 20 year old with a very nice body and attitude for my friend, because this visit I only had one bedroom and did not want for myself to perform in the kitchen or a shower. But I knew the rejected girl from prior trips, and actually enjoyed her very much. She exclaimed in mutual admiration, but did not complaint when casting did not play out good for her. I went to Avalon on my own, and an hour later ordered her anyway. She returned in a very affectionate way, while my friend was finishing her roommate and a bottle of champagne.

And for some stupid reason I just couldn't come this time. We tried doggie, BJ, everything to no avail. Time ran out, I gave her all the condoms left in my drawer, including lubricant, she was very thankful, excused herself and left around 2 am. I packed suitcases for departure, and at 4 am said to myself:

- No, I am not jerking off! Not in Kiev!

And wrote to consolidators. They sent 2 girls. One of them I knew. In fact she is my at least top 20 all time, if not higher. At 4:30 am she arrived, freshly awoken, and visibly surprised to see me. The other girl did her best to be chosen, but in vain.

We went upstairs, and when the door closed, started with a long hug, then very sweet and tender kissing, and love making, eventually finishing with her trembling orgasm in missionary, and me simultaneously having no problem. As I said earlier, miracles happen in Kiev, especially with the right woman.

I extended, has been dizzy myself trying to find in the dark where the money is. Then she slept for an hour in my arms. I caught maybe 15-20 minutes of rapid eye movement deep sleep and much needed relaxation followed by 69 with a BBBJ and nice doggie, coming again (not so easy for me, but with her femininity and sincerity it was). Gave 1000 UAH tip, which she did not expect, and in about 10 minutes my driver arrived into the apartment. We ordered her a separate cab per agency policy, I went out to see that she departs safely (again something I do selectively), and upon arrival to her own bed she wrote me on Viber with lots of hearts and kisses. What a sweetie!

Great way to depart! I can recall maybe 3 of those in the last 15 years in Kiev.

Riina

12-28-18, 18:00

Tigers12

12-28-18, 18:55

Getting the girl in Kiev is interactive. Hence smartphone messengers. Difficult to arrange in advance. Only established well known contacts may provide some guarantee, and even that is with 80-95% certainty. Most of the girls will have 2-3 questions:

- How are you?

- Are you in Kiev?

- What do we agree upon?

The last question may be asked about sex options, but it doesn't matter. Ultimately all they care about is money- how much will be earned and kept.

If there is no smartphone, there will be no interaction, even if in the beginning she (a girl or dispatcher) was interested in you. Easier to find someone else compliant and convenient.

Few comments about AirBnb:.Given the limited time I will spend in Kiev and my current housing situation, it pretty much doesn't make much sense to neither dream nor expect a good score. This is the conclusion I ve reached based on the responses. Lets say I connect via internet, than I will need my own prime place. I call this Kiev visit expeditionary. Maybe next year I would put together a real mongering trip with an apartment etc.

No disrespect regarding to AirBnB. Honestly though you get the impression of whole city being a meat market, where money talks, you cut your deal and roll. Mostly because what I read on the internet perhaps. Or maybe things are changed as some of you guys pointed out.

Rio: I believe its a strip joint right? What I understand is you pick a girl, pay some to her and some to the establishment and you take her out. In this case a hotel may work do I need apartment?

How about this: Since I lowered my expectations, maybe I can check few hotel lobies and take someone upstairs if someone catches my eyes.

Kozerog

12-28-18, 19:53

I've been using SA in Kiev. I've concluded it's corrupted by Western dudes trying to pimp. Makes me realize where all the conflict comes from. If I was living in Kiev without resources, I'd probably try to pimp some girls too to get myself by. Then it would be Riina in Kiev paradise.Could you explain? Is SA = seekingarrangement (changed to seeking.com in the USA)? Do you mean western European guys set up accounts pretending to be women or else have access to real women's accounts, so that these men do all the messaging on behalf of the girls, but actually arrange for real sex rather than just asking for wire transfers of money for travel expenses, etc?

IMO, the big money is imitating DreamConnections. $5000 per male client for 10 days and almost all of that goes to the promoter, with just a few crumbs thrown to the girls. Such is western men's aversion to paying girls directly for sex that they don't think twice about paying vastly more to a man for the mere hope of sex, just as long as the girl gets nothing.

Riina

12-28-18, 23:02

Could you explain? Is SA = seekingarrangement (changed to seeking.com in the USA)? Do you mean western European guys set up accounts pretending to be women or else have access to real women's accounts, so that these men do all the messaging on behalf of the girls, but actually arrange for real sex rather than just asking for wire transfers of money for travel expenses, etc?

IMO, the big money is imitating DreamConnections. $5000 per male client for 10 days and almost all of that goes to the promoter, with just a few crumbs thrown to the girls. Such is western men's aversion to paying girls directly for sex that they don't think twice about paying vastly more to a man for the mere hope of sex, just as long as the girl gets nothing.Yes, exactly. I never heard of DreamConnections, but it makes sense that it exists.

DramaFree11

12-28-18, 23:12

Could you explain? Is SA = seekingarrangement (changed to seeking.com in the USA)? Do you mean western European guys set up accounts pretending to be women or else have access to real women's accounts, so that these men do all the messaging on behalf of the girls, but actually arrange for real sex rather than just asking for wire transfers of money for travel expenses, etc?

IMO, the big money is imitating DreamConnections. $5000 per male client for 10 days and almost all of that goes to the promoter, with just a few crumbs thrown to the girls. Such is western men's aversion to paying girls directly for sex that they don't think twice about paying vastly more to a man for the mere hope of sex, just as long as the girl gets nothing.I have had great success with Seeking Arrangements in Mexico and I have heard of other being Successful in Colombia and other destinations. Limited success in Moscow, but would not recommend, it here or in Kiev. I real do not think SA will work in Kiev, I do not feel $90 a month is a good investment. Just call an Escort. SA girls are going to want far more then regular price in Kiev.

DramaFree11

12-31-18, 05:27

Just finishing my second trip to Moscow in the last 2 months. I probably met 40-60 new people throughout my trips. Probably 8-10, where from Ukraine. Even though I am trying to avoid Ukraine like the plague it follows me everywhere.

All said that Ukraine was finished and there is no future there. One of the girls told me that 70% of her friends had left the country, some come back for Visa reasons, but are trying to leave the country full time now. She said that the people that our left can not leave because of age, have figured out how to make a decent living in Ukraine or have failed in there travels. Take this for what is worth, but you need to think about this when you are planning a trip to Kiev, it is only going to get worse.

When I lived in Kiev all people talked about was leaving the country, that was 4 years ago, I can only imagine what it is like now.

Kozerog

01-02-19, 02:26

AntonySun1996

01-02-19, 03:12

DramaFree11

01-02-19, 04:29

Feeling bored, so poked around and read DramaFree11's posts in the Moscow forum, first time I've done that. Sure enough, DramaFree11 sounds like PhotoSlider here in this Kiev forum: mostly successes with a few failures. Meanwhile, another guy named CzarNicholas trashes Moscow the same way DramaFree11 trashes Kiev: websites all hidden agencies, fake photos, girl that finally arrives is fat pig who he only accepted because tired of fighting for something better, constant upselling and other ways to extract more money from clients, etc.Sorry, zero comparison. Moscow is great and Kiev is below average, and full of scams. There is an actual night life in Moscow, yes there are fake profile and pictures, but nothing like Kiev. Czar would fail anywhere. As far as the other gentlemen you are talking about I disagree with most of his discrimination of Kiev.

The bottom line if I was hanging out in Kiev, I would be meeting 5-6's, bored. Moscow 7-8's are attainable, even higher. Hot girls are everywhere. Even when Kiev was good 10 years ago I could have never had the high quality girls I am meeting in Moscow.

If you have s budget above $300, a day and any game, the sky is the limit. Sorry this the truth. Glad to help, if you have questions.

PhotoSlider

01-02-19, 05:09

...sounds like PhotoSlider here in this Kiev forum: mostly successes with a few failures. Meanwhile, another guy named CzarNicholas trashes Moscow the same way DramaFree11 trashes Kiev: websites all hidden agencies, fake photos, girl that finally arrives is fat pig who he only accepted because tired of fighting for something better, constant upselling and other ways to extract more money from clients, etc.Cannot say anything about Moscow, as luckily (tongue in cheek) I wasn't there since 2002.

As far as upselling in Kiev, I see it no more than 1 in 10, and shut it down right away. In September of 2016 there was one highly intelligent and extremely hot student girl named Brittany that sold her DFK for 20 USD fifteen minutes into intercourse, and I wanted her so badly, that didn't even think twice. At that time in my life I did not push for extras and has been content with with whatever was on the menu, but she was so sweet and desirable, and I felt that she wanted to kiss, but deep down in her mind there was a price sticker for that!

Afterwards she was laying there under the blanket, covering half of her face, not believing her own eyes of what just happened with this guy 33 years older than her. And few minutes later she tried to explain her doubts about herself being a worthy person, to which I objected wholeheartedly and in the most convincing manner, as indeed she made me very happy.

Was this upsell a failure? Cheating?

Anyway. What is the trustworthy criteria for success versus failure? Certainly not 1-10 rating. Punctuality, on-time delivery seems important. I value my time, as there are things aside form mongering that make my schedule rather tight in Kiev. More than once I told my consolidation dispatchers to cancel the girls in-route, as I waited too long, and driver or somebody else lied about the estimated time of arrival. Couple times it pissed me off and affected decision making when the girls were finally at my curbside for casting, to the point of being too irritated to accept anybody.

At the same time one particular lady made a big deal about my demands and encroachment on her personal time. She took her sweet time to order taxi, and arrive, while texting all the usual Kiev lady lies about traffic and such. And yet I was happy with her. She is a great kisser, and even better in other matters. Once, after a few weeks of typical excuses, cancellations and no-shows, I had her beautiful derriere in my hands, and as we were already no less than 30 minutes into a great doggie style, I asked her in the most serious voice:

- Why you did not arrive earlier? What took you so long!

And breathing heavily, she sincerely exclaimed:

- I'll be better! I'll fix myself! -- Ya ispravljus'.

Was it a failure? I had her repeatedly for 3+ hours sessions and paid 2000 UAH for each. To me she is top 5 for the last 14 months, and not because of price, but as a perfomer. Met her by pure luck, when around 1 am one night she arrived as a roommate of my friend's girl. Yesterday received warmest NYE wishes from her and request to meet ASAP.

It is all subjective. I am sure ladies in Moscow are what you make of them. Mistreat and suspect, tell them they are cheaters, and service quality will deteriorate. AFAIK, Ukrainian ladies have stronger character, are less submissive, more independently minded, and that's the way I like them. Free spirited, feminine and after good foreplay no lubricant required.

Kozerog

01-02-19, 16:50

Cannot say anything about Moscow, as luckily (tongue in cheek) I wasn't there since 2002.
.And I've never been there myself. Also, I'm not really questioning DramaFree11's views. It's just seeing how he flips from black to white when going from Kyiv to Moscow is mind-boggling. I should have read the Moscow thread long ago, and highly recommend that thread to others here, just to get some perspective, even if you never plan to visit Moscow.

My own views about the mongering scene in Kyiv are much closer to those of PhotoSlider, with the caveat that he has a lot more energy and experience than me and probably most average guys. That is, I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.

PhotoSlider

01-02-19, 19:00

...My own views about the mongering scene in Kyiv are much closer to those of PhotoSlider, with the caveat that he has a lot more energy and experience than me and probably most average guys.Perhaps also more tolerance and resilience. In this business I do expect a certain percentage of failures, mistreatment, and unprofessional behavior from providers. But my objective is not to fix their mean evil vile filthy practices. The objective is to have great time with ladies delivered to my door. And I am relentless and consistent in reaching that goal.

I am reasonably picky, and even with my consolidation dispatchers I am respectful and engaged in a civilized conversation with good portion of humor. Maybe that is one of the reasons why they try a little harder for me. Surely though, primary reason is monetary, as quite often I order 2-3-4 girls a day just for myself, plus sometimes for my friend, I do not negotiate much, and communication with me is clear and logical. They understand what I want. I treat the girls nicely most of the time, do not abuse. Visiting ladies spread the word upon returning to the base, and very much want repeat visits themselves. Those that leave me their phone numbers, visit later bypassing agency involvement, as they feel safe, and do not need to shell out part of their pay for protection.

That is, I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results...Agree.

I believe I hear your main point. I had similar reservations against girls in Russia, especially after so much pleasure in Ukraine.

In 2013 I traveled to the Russian side of Black Sea. Novorossiysk, Gelendzhik, Anapa, Krasnodar, and, stupid me, expected all that cheating and scams from ugly lazy fat asses. On the contrary! To be precise, the girls weren't exactly Russian, but mostly representatives of small and large ethnic groups in Caucasian mountains like Chechen, Ossetian, Adhyge and Abkhazian. Not sure if this affected anything, as I do not really care about ethnicity, nationality, religion, skin color, and so on. Ossetian one drained me completely! Extended her twice, borrowing money from the roommate, going almost non-stop and drinking champagne. The best one was the Chechen girl. After we were done, she laid on her back visibly satisfied, and exclaimed:

- O-hu-I-tel'-no! This was fucking great!

So I reversed my opinion. Yet again, to be honest this was not Moscow.

The area is a big melting pot, just like Ukraine, Russia, US or any large European country nowadays. In fact Ukrainian Cossack have been relocated by Catherine The Great from Zaporizhya to Kuban', and later on, part of Kuban' for few years have been included in Ukraine. There is still a strong Ukrainian accent all over the place, but that doesn't really change anything.

My statement is simple: I do not and can not possibly have an opinion about Moscow. Extrapolation from prior visits can not be trusted. Relying on Forums, chats, emails, what friends and others say, is of limited use. I am positive that there are happy sex tourists in Moscow. It is all in the eye of beholder, and as Kozerog rightfully stated, reaching success requires work and discipline. I would also add smart work and skill, just like in any business. Mongering is no different. Supply-demand in free market economy plus particular properties, features and qualities characteristic for Ukraine.

As many others, I am thoroughly happy about the state of affairs in Kiev, and not just for mongering. In fact, right now a friend of mine from Western country is in Kiev, and I am so jealous, and at the same time so happy reading his daily reports! He only speaks English. Empty streets and students going home for holidays didn't affect his mongering schedule. He didn't go to clubs or for strip entertainment, not even call girls, but rather relied partially on his prior contacts, and relentlessly worked on establishing new ones. As we exchanged our ladies, I can swear with my hand on the Bible and without any doubt that his ladies are top notch, he doesn't overpay, and he is doing great year after year.

YMMV, yet IMO rumors of Kiev demise are greatly exaggerated.

DramaFree11

01-02-19, 19:08

And I've never been there myself. Also, I'm not really questioning DramaFree11's views. It's just seeing how he flips from black to white when going from Kyiv to Moscow is mind-boggling. I should have read the Moscow thread long ago, and highly recommend that thread to others here, just to get some perspective, even if you never plan to visit Moscow.

My own views about the mongering scene in Kyiv are much closer to those of PhotoSlider, with the caveat that he has a lot more energy and experience than me and probably most average guys. That is, I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.Sorry, I have to completely disagree, again. There is zero comparison. I will agree Kiev is cheaper, but not by much anymore. Hard work pays off, that is why am successful in both Moscow and Parts of Mexico. You might want to read all my posts. Lived in Kiev, no way I can have the quality of girls that I am now having in both Mexico and Russia. Please read all my posts, before you make they accusations. I am very critical of Kiev, because of the details you guys leave out about Kiev. (Too Many Sex Tourists, Scams, Lies, Lack of quality women, the City is dead after 9 pm.) I have always Kiev said that Kiev is average with bellow average night life. If that is what you are looking then go. Why fly around the world to bang 5-6's, I can have that in America or all day in Mexico.

Again, I ask you guys to think about newbies, the details some leave out about Kiev is amazing.

Michi T

01-02-19, 23:37

Had a great week in my home town with the girl from Kiev. Not a working girl, a normal girl which I met in real life.

Happy new year to all of you!

DramaFree11

01-03-19, 00:07

And I've never been there myself. Also, I'm not really questioning DramaFree11's views. It's just seeing how he flips from black to white when going from Kyiv to Moscow is mind-boggling. I should have read the Moscow thread long ago, and highly recommend that thread to others here, just to get some perspective, even if you never plan to visit Moscow.

My own views about the mongering scene in Kyiv are much closer to those of PhotoSlider, with the caveat that he has a lot more energy and experience than me and probably most average guys. That is, I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.Sorry, I have to completely disagree, again. There is zero comparison. I will agree Kiev is Cheaper, but not by much anymore. Hard work pays off, that is why am successful in both Moscow and Parts of Mexico. You might want to read all my posts. Lived in Kiev, no way I can have the quality of girls that I am now having in both Mexico and Russia now. Please read all my posts. I am very critical of Kiev, because of the details you guys leave out about Kiev. (Too Many Sex Tourists, Scams, Lies, Lack of Quality Women, the City is dead after 9 pm.) I have always K said that Kiev is average with bellow average night life. If that is what you are looking then go. Why fly around the world to bang 5-6's, I can have that in America for free or all day in Mexico.

Again, I ask you guys to think about newbies, the details some leave out about Kiev is amazing.

DramaFree11

01-03-19, 00:12

Had a great week in my home town with the girl from Kiev. Not a working girl, a normal girl which I met in real life.

Happy new year to all of you!Nice looking girl, good job!

PhotoSlider

01-03-19, 01:57

This is so symbolic! One guys says:

- Dreams are your reality.

The other responds:

- Think what you want.

Is there a fool-proof way to assess the qualities of lady in question, those qualities that truly matter to a particular customer? Is there a role model lady that would satisfy the strictest requirements by everybody?

VK pix may not be as glamorous, but I tend to be on Michi T side, as obviously Julia made him proud and happy. IMO that is most important. She is not with MisterXXX, and as much as he is entitled to his opinion, and freedom to express it, unless he met her face to face, it doesn't matter.

I wouldn't call the girl ugly, and bottom line, as they said in "Pulp Fiction", personality goes a long way!

I had repeated visits from a young student, she took a train ride 3 hours one way, but that's beyond the point. Now looking at her pictures, I know MisterXXX would surely disapprove of her. Yet, currently she is my favorite. Does it mean I am omnivorous, indiscriminate? Well, that maybe I am but she is special in many ways even outside the bed, and the manner, in which she behaves, touches my soul beyond any hope for my recovery in the nearest future. To most on the Forum her photos would not mean anything, and to me she is the most beautiful. Her legs are so long, her smile, her eyes, and the way they change when we discuss something of extreme interest to both of us, her smile, and our first kiss at the small cafe, and how later in the cab it went slightly longer, and then deeper, and then I asked her:

- Do you want to come to my place? If you don't, that will not change anything.

And she responded in shy but persistent voice:

- Yes, I do.

How can you discern, recognize all of this magic in the picture posted on our Forum?

Pointless argument. Dreams are our reality indeed, and we'll think what we want.

Riina

01-03-19, 02:46

I believe there exist very high quality girls In Kyiv, at half the price of Moscow, but they don't come handed to you on a silver platter. You have to work for them. If you don't put in the work, you get the bad results DramaFree11 complains about in this thread and CzarNicholas complains about in the Moscow thread.I feel lack of time is every real monger's obstacle to finding value and quality abroad. The hunt for relationships takes time and their's a pace that can't be forced.

PhotoSlider

01-03-19, 16:43

I feel lack of time is every real monger's obstacle to finding value and quality abroad. The hunt for relationships takes time and there's a pace that can't be forced.Golden words! That's why I do not go for 3-4 day trips anymore. Even 2 weeks is not enough. That could also be why AFAIK expats do not post here on our Forum. They establish relationships and stay happy without listening to nonsense about how terrible Kiev is.

Michi T

01-03-19, 17:02

I feel lack of time is every real monger's obstacle to finding value and quality abroad. The hunt for relationships takes time and their's a pace that can't be forced.Having enough time, no pressure, is a "must".

FuckedUpSwede

01-05-19, 21:16

I have read a good portion of the thread with great pleasure. I live in Sweden, as my avatar suggest, and I am not a seasoned monger.

Kiev is a short, and cheap, flight from Stockholm. I have never visited Ukraine before, I mostly travel inside Sweden for work and sometimes to the European cities for work and for leisure. I am 45 years old and reasonably fit.

I created a profile on Mamba. I put in a phrase in English telling that I am a businessman travelling in Europe that want some intellectual, and maybe, physically stimuli when travelling thru Kiev. I told my real age, told I am a bit overweight (80 kg /174 cm), high income (I suppose I have in comparison to Ukraine), put a nice photo of myself in a swimming pool drinking a Pina Colada and gave it a shot. I sent out a generic "Hi" to approx 20 females from 25-45 that accepted my age and spoke English (according to their profile).

Most did not answer at all, some put me on ignore and a few answered with bad English.

One that answered was 35 and directly started to try to control me, asking for photos in different angles and asked why I was bothering her. I told her that I wanted some company when in Kiev and she sent me a Viber number and told me to contact her when in Kiev.

The others spoke such bad English so I just deleted them. I do not only want to fuck, I want to hang out with them for a day and see Kiev.

Round 2.20 new candidates, same outcome. One with reasonably good English and also interest.

She is 40, lives with her grown up son in a 25 sqm apartment in a grey suburb earning $300 a month just covering rent. A bit old but looked nice and I told her I want to meet her and walk around Kiev for a day including lunch and a fancy dinner. I thought she would be super happy with this deal. No fucking was ever mentioned. Just walk around for a day with a nice gentleman from Sweden. She answers "I not have shoes for walking" "you buy shoes" "I have size 35" and then sends me a link to some shoes for 6800 UAH. I tell her, perfectly true, that I am not a poor guy, I earn over average in Sweden, but I drive around in a old Toyota and live in a small house in the woods. She replied with some rude comments and I ended conversation.

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?

Riina

01-05-19, 22:33

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?Kozerog once mentioned something about grinding through a junk heap to find a gem. Well, it works the other way too. Girls have to grind their way to a good sponsor. As a foreigner making contact outside the country, you're automatically categorized under the junk pile.

My advice. Go to Ukraine, make some contacts and be a good customer. I can guarantee you there will be girls begging their friends to have you. It happens for me like all the time with Ukrainians and I live in Chicago.

DramaFree11

01-06-19, 01:19

Kozerog once mentioned something about grinding through a junk heap to find a gem. Well, it works the other way too. Girls have to grind their way to a good sponsor. As a foreigner making contact outside the country, you're automatically categorized under the junk pile.

My advice. Go to Ukraine, make some contacts and be a good customer. I can guarantee you there will be girls begging their friends to have you. It happens for me like all the time with Ukrainians and I live in Chicago.Traveling from Sweden, to Kiev will be a major down grade. Let's try to give some constructive feedback.

GDreams

01-06-19, 01:22

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?I have not been to Kiev for some time. When I was working in Africa I went a lot, racking up about three years of my life spent there and marrying a local. I kept it very simple. Put down the relevant info on your profile and send a message like. 'I will be in Kiev in 2 weeks, do you want to meet?

If the answer is yes then ask for a phone number. If you are going to ask anything ask what are some nice restaurants, what are your favourite places to visit etc. I still use that approach for other areas I visit and it still works. Most guys never turn up so girls will often do not want to invest time unless you arrive. When you arrive be prepared. Out of 10 girls 5 will not show up, 2 won't like you, 2 you won't like and there will be the one you hit it off with! Enjoy!

PhotoSlider

01-06-19, 05:39

...My advice. Go to Ukraine, make some contacts and be a good customer. I can guarantee you there will be girls begging their friends to have you. It happens for me like all the time with Ukrainians and I live in Chicago.My expat friend has a nice residence and stays in Kiev most of the time. One of the nights we met for a late dinner, and I was going to order a call girl afterwards. Offered him to partake as well, to which he wearily responded:

- Thanks, but I am afraid I shall pass.

- How so?

- Well, I just returned from having both Svetlana and Oksana at their location. You know them.

- Yes I do.

- Right. I had them both, and as you might have noticed, Svetlana's ass is not for faint-hearted. She is rather demanding young lady.

- That she is indeed)) Did you change the condoms while switching between them?

- Yes I did. And the night before that full-bodied Ruslana invited her best friend Natasha, who just separated from her husband, and told her how happy she is with me. So went to hammam for a few hours, where I had them both as well, and they finished a bottle of cognac between the two of them, I didn't drink, and they took turns draining my energy. I am sorry, but I will pass tonight.

And the moral of the story is exactly as Riina pointed out: Treat them Ukrainian ladies nice, and they will not leave you sleeping alone.

Kirch

01-06-19, 11:22

I have posted this about 7 years ago. I found it somewhere in the internet. It is still so much truth about it, I still have to laugh reading this.

If you've just arrived in Kyiv, chances are that you will quickly be informed by helpful work colleagues and business partners about the places to dine at and the places to party. They are but a few and they are full of stunning girls. So let's start our checklist by assuming you just went out for the first time and met this nice English-speaking girl, with an amazing body, who was so sweet with you:

Where did you meet her? If it was at the-Lux, SkyBar, Dante Park, Arena, Avalon, Shooters, Byblos, Serebro, Velour, Buddha Bar, Mokko, Richelieu, Ok Bar, Safe (to name just some of the worst places to meet a girl) , there is a strong likelihood that this girls is a hooker. If you met her at the-Lux, don't kid yourself – that's a *house with 80% working girls swarming its three floors. SkyBar is the same, but just on one floor, while Dante Park has a slightly lower hooker level, but still there are 2 chances out of 3 that she was there to work. Arena and Avalon have a lower class of hookers, but an even higher percentage of hookers than the-Lux. Shooters is a special case: students go there to dabble in their first sex-for-money experiences and also girls to ugly to pass the face control at the top clubs. Byblos, Serebro and Velour are the places where rich Ukrainians pick up their sex-snacks and so the chances that she speaks English are low, but she is likely to charge you premium prices for being so daft to have picked her up there. For a long time Buddha Bar used to be the prostitution center of Kyiv, but lately management has been clamping down strongly on the amount of hookers allowed to enter. Mokko, Richelieu, Ok Bar and Safe are favorite hangouts for some of the most expensive ladies one can find in Kyiv; sipping on one coffee for the whole evening and waiting for some rich man to invite them to share dinner with him and later share his bed. Safe and OK Bar are by far the worst offenders in this regard and any girl going there regularly is a girl to avoid. All these places have in common, that none of the girls can afford to actually be there, and if she is there it is so to find a man to pay for her: there and hers truly too.

What day of the week did you meet her? Has it been a Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, or Thursday? Remember that any Ukrainian girl, who studies or works will only in the rarest of circumstances go out during the week. Students at Ukrainian universities have an immense work load and must be at class early in the morning; therefore they do not go out during the week and if they do, they will be with a group of friends and head home early. Girls who work, work long hours, need to be at work early in the morning and receive paltry salaries – hence they sleep on weekday evenings and do not have the money to go out to such expensive places. A girl that can go to clubs and restaurants all days of the week is most likely there to sell herself, especially if she is still there after midnight.

What does she do in life? One of the first questions to ask is what a girl does in life; if she answers 'Student', 'Looking for a job', 'Undecided', 'Model', all alarm bells should start ringing at once! Students (see above) neither have the time to go out nor the money; a girl who doesn't work in Kyiv cannot survive in this city (unless her parents are rich– see point below); and if she claims to be a model then this is code for 'I think I am a model, because I am a tall and thin hooker!' Kyiv is a city with thousands of models, none of which earns enough money to pay for even a flat. True top models do not stay in Kyiv, they quickly move to fashion capitals in the West, where they can make more money. 'Models' in Kyiv are tall, thin girls, who sometimes dabble a bit in modeling, but as there are so many of them, none can actually earn her living and 95% of them also work in other ways with their bodies.

Maybe her parents are rich? Well, they might– and there is an easy way to find out: 'Do you have a car? ' if she confirms ask what car it is. A girl from a truly rich family will have her own car and not just some cheap little Japanese one, but a Lexus or Mercedes jeep or even a Porsche Cayenne. But then a girl from such a family wouldn't be found at a place full of hookers like E. G. Safe. She would be at one of the luxury restaurants foreigners don't even know about, and she wouldn't speak with you. Chances are high that a girl going out to the above mentioned clubs and talking to a foreigner with a car in the 50 k $ range got this car as a gift from one of her wealthy married lovers. But if she doesn't have a car and doesn't work, then she is very likely a prostitute. No middle class family in Ukraine has the means or the inclination to allow their daughters not to work after university, and if a girl doesn't have a car and doesn't work, then her source of income is between her legs, which pays nicely for life in Kyiv, but won't earn her enough for buying a car.

Phrases and keywords to look out for: There are phrases that if uttered are a clear sign that you should move on. The most obvious of them are: 'I like generous man' means 'I look for a sucker to pay for everything! '; 'I am not a girl for the average man! ' means 'My body is only for men from 100 k $ disposable income p. A. And up!' 'I am a popular girl!' means 'I already have a lot of clients, so if you want me – start the bidding! '; 'This is a real Gucci / Prada / etc. Bag / watch / etc. ' means 'See what other men paid for me, top them or I will move on. ' and my favorite 'I am not a prostitute' which actually means 'Your offer is to low!'

Other things to look out for: To much makeup, to low cut dresses, breasts hanging halfway out of the bustier, navel piercings – many hookers dress like hookers; but the most common single identification symbol is: not all girls in Kyiv with an iPhone are hookers, but all hookers in Kyiv have an iPhone! Always the newest model and always nearby to show they have it; naturally they had it presented to them by one of their clients, because none of them ever spends her own money on anything.

Kirch

01-06-19, 11:24

If you are still unsure if a girl you met is a prostitute or not, then it is time for some research. Go to vkontakte to check the girls profile out. If you do not have vkontakte then this blog will be of little help to you as you haven't really arrived in Kyiv yet (www.vk.com). Find the girl: if she did not give you her full name, her birthday and first name will suffice. Girls have a habit to have much more racy and revealing photos on vkontakte than on facebook. An added bonus is that vkonakte's privacy measures are sloppy and friendlists are not hidden.

Travel Photos: First thing you do is to check out her photos: a lot of professional underwear and bikini photos are already a bad sign. A lot of travel photos from all kinds of exotic destinations all over the world are even worse. If you work in a normal job, if you are from a normal Ukrainian family you do not have the means to travel the world. You get 2-3 weeks of holiday a year and a holiday in Egypt, in Turkey or some bus tour of Western Europe is the maximum you can pay from your salary. Holidays in expensive and faraway places: e. G. Maldives, Dominican Republic, India, Thailand, Australia, etc. For example are always paid for by clients, or rich boyfriends (more about rich 'boyfriends' below). Repeated trips to the United Arab Emirates are an especially auspicious sign of travel prostitution; namely sex for a holiday. Trips to Israel, Dominican Republic, LOS Angeles, New York, etc. – maybe some ignorant local boys believe the girls' stories that male friends invited them to join them on these short trips, just because these friends are just very friendly; but you should not: if a Ukrainian girl is invited to visit the Bahamas it is only because the inviter can invite himself to all orifices of her body in return.

Type of Photos and Posing: One of the typical things girls from poor backgrounds will post are a ridiculous amount of photos showing them indulging in luxury. These photos are meant to showcase their coolness, and their friends in their little villages might be impressed by them. However when doing research these images are quite helpful as they show so much more than these girls intended. Images of a girl sitting in a luxury car means just that this is the car of the man that ordered her; Images of a girl in a flat with view of Central Park, just means that in this flat she will soon be used by the owner of the flat; Images of a girl putting a spoon of caviar in her mouth just means that she will soon swallow another reproductive liquid next; Images taken inside a Rolls Royce do not mean that it's her car, they just mean that she is dumb and poor and that this drive to her client is the first time she has come close to luxury. Photos on yachts and in private jets just showcase the type of a client a girl usually services and what prices she expects to be paid for having no dignity. The same rule applies for photos taken in airport business lounges and hotel rooms; none of these girls can pay for these amenities and you need to understand, she is just showing us her commute to work and her workplace.

Friendlists: Luckily vkontakte doesn't hide friendlists. One can only hide up to 15 friends. If one has been to Kyiv for some time one knows directly or indirectly a large number of prostitutes. Therefore after you have checked out her photos look at the friendlist: often you can find a 10-20% of the girls in a friendlist to be known prostitutes. One girl, who works and studies, might know at maximum 2-3 girls, who are involved in the trade. But when a girl has over 10 prostitutes in her friendlist then it is safe to assume she knows them from common work experiences. Another telling sign is the amount of much older foreign men a girl has in her friendlist on facebook – if the amount is more than 50% of all male friends, she is managing her client base through facebook.

Check-ins: thanks to smartphones, there is an inflation of girls checking into places: be it restaurants, clubs, bars, airports, etc. And they are some of the most revealing information one can find: girls that regularly check into expensive restaurants do so to announce their presence and current availability to their usual clients. As no Ukrainian girl has the means or the will to pay for diner in such a place herself, they fully expect some sucker to read the check-in and go to the place to pay for diner and extra for sex-services afterwards. In earlier times girls, instead of checking in, used to send sms announcing 'I am in the center. Let's meet at Safe in 20 min' and were actually angry if you dared to not rush there to pay diner for her and the friends she brought along to dine on the sucker's expense too. So check her profile for check-ins: lots of visits to Safe, SkyBar, Byblos, Velour, and the-Lux, especially during the week tell you all you need to know. Also check with whom they visit these places: checking in with a known prostitute is not uncommon. Furthermore check-ins at airports during the week for 2-3 day trips are not friends inviting her over to Cannes to go shopping with her at Burberry, but a client in need of a quality body.

Photos of flats: Rent in Kyiv is expensive. Even if one works full time it often is not enough to rent one's own flat. So check profiles on vkontakte for photos of flats. The dumbest girls take an excessive amount of themselves in their flat; very commonly in front of the mirror, an iPhone in hand, showing off new dresses, shoes, fur coats, etc. That they were tipped with. A luxury flat in the center can mean only one thing: a full-time prostitute or a wealthy, married sponsor, who pays for that flat in exchange for exclusive access to that girl's body.

Kirch

01-06-19, 11:26

Long-term prostitution with one man: a special case is the many girls in Kyiv, who do not prostitute themselves with many men, but who prostitute themselves with a series of rich men. The girls call these men 'my boyfriend' and insist that they are very much in love. If that were so, why do they live apart? In most cases the reason is that the man is married and thus places the girl in a centrally located flat to a) buy her and be) have a place to use her. It is a bit more difficult to find out about such girls, but it's also possible: clear signs are once again that she doesn't work, that she has a upscale flat in the center, that she goes all the time to expensive restaurants, that she lives alone and that she frequently travels outside of Ukraine (with her 'boyfriend' of course). Such girls have nothing to do all day, they go to the fitness studio, they visit café after café, they meet some friends and wait all week around for the time her sponsor comes to use her at his flat. Such girls will never have time to meet you for two reasons: the first is that in the evening they need to be available for their paymaster before he heads to his family's place, and the second reason is that usually his friends know about her and if she is found to meet another man for a date, she risks losing her job and flat. Only if such a girl senses that she is about to lose her current paymaster or that you are ready to take over as paymaster, she will become active and want to meet you; until then she 'is a busy girl', 'has so much to do', 'has so little free time', and so many other idiotic excuses why she cannot meet you, during the 23 hours of the day she has nothing to do.

Short-term prostitution with many men: another special case is girls, who have a series of boyfriends that change repeatedly and abruptly. These girls, like the ones above, have their own flat, they visit expensive restaurants etc. The main difference is that these girls rent their flats themselves, while the above live in flats owned or rented by their sponsor. To make sure that they have money for their flats they will continuously switch between wealthy boyfriends with the intent to secure money for rent and food. Relationships of 2-3 weeks are not uncommon and also these girls insist that they are in 'love'. These girls are most often the most diseased of the girls you can meet; while the long-term sponsored girls sleep with just one man and the full-time prostitutes use condoms with their clients, these girls sleep with their 'boyfriends' without condoms (they are in love after all!) and ignore the fact that such guys have a dozen 'girlfriends' at any given time. Also these girls might be in 'love' with many men at the same time. And if by the end of the month they did not manage to find their rent, you can find them at the-Lux desperate to sell themselves for the rent.

Mamba: mamba. Ru is where all prostitutes in Ukraine converge, looking for either a sponsor or for some quick hourly sex for money deals. A girl with a profile there is a prostitute; the few exceptions are in the single digits and leave the site quickly. Mamba is difficult to mine for information, but if you have the time it will yield endless information about professional hookers, the reason being that the girls while using fake names enter their true birthdays and use the same photos as on vkontakte. If you manage to find a girl you do like in real life on mamba, write her there under an assumed identity, and you can be sure to receive the prices, conditions and services she offers and also the list of her girlfriends she can bring along.

If you still want to date a girl, who fits all or some of the description above, feel free to do so. But be aware that she will be with you only as long it makes financial sense for her. Furthermore do yourself a favor and send her to the gynecologist before you sleep with her without a condom: vaginal bacteria are as common as iPhones with girls in the-Lux and furthermore none of them takes the anti-baby pill.

Per se these girls are not bad, but they are lazy. The reason these girls prefer to sell themselves is not, because they need the money, the sole reason is that they are too lazy to do any kind of work; work in any form is anathema to them, but at the same time they want a luxurious lifestyle without doing anything for it but pulling their legs apart and looking at the ceiling for twenty minutes.

If you wish to find a girl worthy of your affection and for a long lasting relationship, don't go out to the clubs mentioned at the beginning of the blog. There your chances to find a girl worthy of your time and energy are zero. Work and make friends with your work colleagues. They will take you along to their get-together, where you will meet their friends and their sisters. All of whom do work, all of whom will have little money, and among these you will find a beautiful, smart, sweet, wonderful girl that is neither lazy nor obsessed with money. Remember: any girl that has no job, but lives in her own flat is most likely to be a hooker. The girls you want to meet, date and love are those who study and work since they were seventeen years old.

And if you are really desperate for intimacy, then don't bother to go to the-Lux or Safe, or the like: go to Rio Strip Club next to the opera: there girls are friendlier, more honest, younger, available, cheaper and cleaner.

Kirch

01-06-19, 11:47

You are totally right Photoslider. But I guess I have to add something. Your friend in Kiev is working there and has a flat there. And the friends know this. In this case I agree with you. But if you are just a nice guy in Kiev, not there for work or living in Kiev, it looks different. I have some friends in Kiev and I know they doubt that I am here for work (what I pretend). So they don't introduce me to other friends because they are all afraid that their friends think I am just one of those sex tourists. I had 2 girl friends here and both introduced me only to some friends. Those friends had no bad opinion about foreigners coming to Kiev and have a girl friend here. I got in a big fight with my last girl friend because she refused to go with me to some (underground) clubs and festivals here as she knows there many people. When she was drunk she told me she is so sorry but she is afraid that her friends think that she is with a German guy only because of money and that they think she is kind of a prostitute. Certainly those 2 girls live on left bank, so they don't have much money. I know from other friends working and studying abroad and have rich familys, it is OK to meet foreigners as long as the story is right.

To find a girl for real relationship you need to go outside of Kiev city center! Or at least away from Kreshatik, Buddha Bar, Sky bar, etc. And you need to be nice, yes its true, you can be nice and a Gentleman! They love it because they are tired of the lazy and rude Ukrainian men (that's what they told me). (But as everyone knows, some of them still only fall in love with "assholes" as they can't control it). And you need patience! A lot of patience! If she is really interested in you it won't happen quickly that you end up in bed or kissing. My experience though is that the most adorable women don't speak English. I just experienced again after a friend asked me to visit a charity help. I loved it and do now a lot for this charity. The girls here volunteering for this organisation love to see me working there and donating money. I got in contact with dozens of new girls but not one single girl speaks English. Gosh, I want to learn Russian but its so complicated. Haha.

My expat friend has a nice residence and stays in Kiev most of the time. One of the nights we met for a late dinner, and I was going to order a call girl afterwards. Offered him to partake as well, to which he wearily responded:

And the moral of the story is exactly as Riina pointed out: Treat them Ukrainian ladies nice, and they will not leave you sleeping alone.

Kirch

01-06-19, 11:54

I did some work on Mamba for about 3 weeks last year as I had a lot of time travelling. I contacted maybe 300 girls. Some are fakes, some are real but when writing with them they come up with their real photos and this is disappointing. Some of them are really high class and beautiful but its expensive. Some only look for marriage. You find everything and as a result (after contacting 300 girls) I have 2 new 19 and 21 years old girls who just want to have fun and ask for some sponsoring. Both beautiful and slim body and their English is very good. So, it depends of what you are looking for? Well your name is "fuckedupswede" so I guess you are looking for fun. So I would suggest to be more straight but still a Gentleman. If you act like the nice guy, they will be unbelievable vampires! Sucking out your money and energy. Still CIS girls love more straight, dominant men but like a Gentleman!

I have read a good portion of the thread with great pleasure. I live in Sweden, as my avatar suggest, and I am not a seasoned monger.

I think I need to alter my approach and not be so honest, what do you think?

Kirch

01-06-19, 12:25

When I am too lazy and don't want to waste time in order to find some new girls, I go to Rio. Many discussions here about this club (including that I am paid from Rio to make advertising here. Haha). Read my posts, Rio is still the best place to get a very nice, slim, beautiful, clean girl for good money!

(Rio, Tootsie and Scarlette is the same owner).

I visited Tootsie Club a couple of weeks ago when they opened. The club is next door to Rio. I don't like it at all. The design, furniture, etc. Is way too cheesy and I don't feel comfortable there. Yesterday I went to Scarlette, I have been there a couple of times before but only because it is only 1 minute walk from my Hotel ALoft. I don't like the atmosphere either. Especially the tables are too far away from the dance poles. Yesterday it was me and one other guest! Girls were not pretty as well so I left for Rio. It was about 10:00 pm and it was crowded (still the basement area is closed). Every time I come here, the more fat and not so nice girls they have! But always you can find some skinny nice ones as well. Yesterday I saw Luda, Alina, Vlada and Isabella. But as always, weekends are not good. I noticed that during the week there are more pretty girls and on weekends some of the girls prefer to make their money with private dances, thus don't go to hotel. Within the week they go more likely to the hotel as there are not so many guests. Prices are 150 Euro for 1-2 hours, 250 Euro for 3-5 hours and 350 hours for the entire night. Well, sometimes I go there at 8:00 pm and I leave Rio at 09:00 pm with a nice girl for 350 Euro and she leaves next morning.

I still love Rio, maybe because I had the best times there over the last 7 years. But it is not easy anymore to find the new crazy girls coming from out of Kiev for some adventure. Too many business like girls.

Kozerog

01-06-19, 18:31

I am 45 years old and reasonably fit. I created a profile on Mamba. I put in a phrase in English telling that I am a businessman travelling in Europe that want some intellectual, and maybe, physically stimuli when travelling thru Kiev.If you are just passing through Kyiv, then you probably need to go after girls / women who have consciously accepted that they are escorts for rent on an hourly basis. That is, unless the girl makes it clear in her mamba profile that she's at least a semi-pro escort, don't bother. Then grind your way through a bunch of these escorts to find those with whom there is mutual attraction, then become a repeat customer.

How to find escorts? RTFF, last two years at least. Basically, consensus is there are 4 options: strip clubs, kievescort. Club, hidden agencies, true independents (from mamba and elsewhere). KEC is expensive but probably best choice for beginners who are short on time, unless you're the type who wants to see, talk to and touch girls first, in which case strip clubs best. If using hidden agencies, then you should strive to be a repeat and well-behaved customer of the agency, which is something I neglected to do back when I was using them, which is another reason I was not as successful with them as PhotoSlider. (he's definitely right about my lack of resilience / tolerance in the face of failure. My desire for sex is weak at this point, so it doesn't take much to make me throw in the towel and do something else instead.).

As a foreigner making contact outside the country, you're automatically categorized under the junk pile.Yes. OP sounds like a lot of guys (including me) who want something more like a mistress (paid girlfriend) than just sex only. It's conceivable to turn a regular girlfriend into a mistress, or equivalently, use wealth to make yourself more attractive to civilian girls as a boyfriend. However, for many reasons, including being categorized as junky foreign sex tourist initially, I think it's easier to go the other way, and take an escort hired initially for one hour, and convert her into a mistress (paid long-term girlfriend with whom there is some emotional connection). That's what I did. By starting with a true independent, there is no problem of getting the agency or strip club out of the way, and the hourly rate stays the same, so no need to renegotiate.

FuckedUpSwede

01-06-19, 18:52

Kozerog

01-06-19, 23:22

What irritates me is that I targeted quite old women and this particular one claimed she was sitting at home alone on new years eve because there is no men in Ukraine.
Above sentence comes across as "condescending", meaning you see yourself as having a lot more to offer than this woman, and therefore you are doing her a big favor by contacting her. Nobody likes being in the inferior position like that, and women especially hate the feeling of lacking sexual power over men, and that how she probably felt. You were not that excited by her, and she could sense that, so she acted defensively.

As an aside, lots of guys categorize women on a scale of 1-10. I use 3 categories myself: (A) does not attract me sexually; (B) attracts me, but I would hate to be stuck with her for several years; (C) attracts me enough that I would be willing to see her frequently for at least several years. Category (B) I now try to avoid, because it means I am going after a woman I really don't think that highly of, either for looks or personality, and she will detect that and resent it, guaranteeing a bad experience. Much better to keep going until I find a woman from category (C).

It's well known that online dating is mainly used by civilian women for attention. That is, civilian women mostly create profiles to see how many likes and messages they can get, so as to boost their ego, with no intention of ever meeting anyone. I fooled around with civilian online dating in Ukraine long ago and found out to be a big waste of time. By contrast, escorts (or their agencies) create online profiles to get real business. If they are sometimes abrupt, it's because they are defending against timewasters, meaning guys who contact sex workers for the excitement of talking to a live woman about sex, but then go off and masturbate without ever paying them anything.

PhotoSlider

01-07-19, 00:44

I listen and I learn from you more veteran mongers. Maybe I just go to Kiev to check it out, there is a club I want to visit there anyway "Closer" and that is for non mongering reasons, I just love trance music.

I can "pass thru" quite often since I travel a lot in Europe in business and no one will care if I go thru Kiev or Frankfurt or whatever.

What irritates me is that I targeted quite old women and this particular one claimed she was sitting at home alone on new years eve because there is no men in Ukraine.

I mean, if a reasonable looking female approached me on mamba and asked me if I could show her Stockholm and she would pay a fancy restaurant I would go for it just for fun. And I am not poor sitting alone in a 25 sqm flat. I partied my brains out in Seville on new year feeling a bit sorry for her! "I not have shoes" give me a fucking brake.Couple things you can change to get more success in Kiev:

The first one GDreams explained the best. Be concise, and do not give too much information, go straight to the point: "I am in Kiev right now. Would like to meet" No need to explain your age. The initial objective is simple. Get her phone number, and arrange for a meeting.

The second one Kozerog described in sufficient detail. Kiev ladies want respect and money. They can feel even a smallest hint of you lacking self-confidence, and you thinking badly of them. That is why many foreign visitors come to Kiev, expecting local females with no income swarming and begging to get fucked, and instead those visitors are ignored.

This is precisely why Riina found his gold mine of Ukrainian students in Chicago. He treats them nicely, and not just money-wise.

Going further away from the subject at hand, I never ask for a call girl's personal phone number when we are just starting in my apartment for the first time ever. I want her to feel that she is special. And to my taste, many of them indeed deserve to be thought of as special ones. Then my chances at great love making improve significantly, and if the lady is pleased, especially if she has orgasm, she may give me her phone number upon departure, and as Kozerog said, I may eventually turn her into my LT GF.

Have one for almost 5 years now, and I meet her every time I am in Kiev. The very first time we went for a date, because her friend, a masseuse at Relax couldn't go out with me, and I treated that masseuse very well during massage instead of demanding to be pleased by lowly creature that is beneath me.

Another GF is with me 3+ years after initial encounter at Rio. Could have written a movie script about our first and second act.

Another one 2+ years. She herself is a different masseuse from Relax. Keeps writing to me, because she needs attention, and she likes our conversations. I do too. Highly intelligent lady. I like meeting with her in person even better, as words can not describe her skills!

Do I worship every Ukrainian girl that I meet? Certainly not. Still, if she passes the initial screening, I prefer to think that she is a good person, who I want to be with. This attitude helps me to open up better side of them. Maybe 20-30% do not live up to my expectations and fail the actual screening in bed. Well, you can't always get what you want. The World is far from being perfect. But more than 50% of those that I like, give me their phone number. A third of them later decide not to respond, that is easy to give away the phone number, and not respond. Another third respond, and never meet. And another third meet, and just like Kozerog explained, I retain them as LT GFs. This transition is difficult to execute in a short 3-5 days visit. I had it done, but it's difficult. Kiev girls want at least a resemblance of courtship.

As far as Kiev girls being afraid to be seen with us drooling mongers, yes, I had experienced that too. And some of them after learning that I am a decent human being, treating them with dignity and even sufficient well measured admiration they forget those precautions, and go out to Avalon and other equally public places. I do not go to Clubs at all though.

Best of luck to all who is continuing field research on the ground, and separate thanks to those who share and submit honest reports.

FuckedUpSwede

01-07-19, 01:29

I just love the brutal honesty of you guys!

My meaning is really not to be "condescending" and when you display it this way I understand why I failed. I also failed to see thru the structure of online dating. I have done psychological tests and it turned out that I am extremely logical but have a hard time understanding emotions. Maybe that is the explanation. I will try to work the other way and only contact women that really attract me and are obvious semi pros. I just think it would be unnecessarily expensive, and a waste of their time, to have a walk around town with me and have dinner. I do not hire a surgeon to help me fix my car. Even if the surgeon could do it. I do not see my mechanic as a lesser being because I do not hire him to do a vasectomy. I did not intend to have sex with this women. I did nothing to even hint that. I cannot understand why she see that as a threat but I listen and learn from people who understands this game better than me. I understand machines, I am a mechanical engineer.

Is it normal to pay the same fee for a walk around town as for sex? I ask because I have had this argument when I was driving a cab (I did when I was studying). I got a call to two women standing beside a car with a flat tire. They wanted to go quite a distance to their home, approx 50 euro, I asked what the problem was. They replied that they did not know how to change tire. I said I could change the tire for 50 euro instead of driving them home. They got perplexed and asked "are you allowed to do this, you are a taxi driver" I said "my boss do not care shit as long as he gets a fair share to pay for the time of this taxi standing still and I do not really care what kind of work I am doing as long as it pays me at least the same as driving this cab" the agreed, I changed tire in approx 10 min for 50 euro and everyone was happy.

I also once let a really fat ugly old lady suck my dick while driving the cab to her destination. I got 50 Euro tip and was happy with this. I did do the mistake to tell my former wife about this incident (we was not married when the incident took place, I was single). She did not see this the way I did, as a funny incident that gave me some extra cash. She hit me with a load of disgust.

PhotoSlider

01-07-19, 02:30

As an aside, lots of guys categorize women on a scale of 1-10. I use 3 categories myself: (A) does not attract me sexually; (B) attracts me, but I would hate to be stuck with her for several years; (C) attracts me enough that I would be willing to see her frequently for at least several years. Category (B) I now try to avoid, because it means I am going after a woman I really don't think that highly of, either for looks or personality, and she will detect that and resent it, guaranteeing a bad experience. Much better to keep going until I find a woman from category (C).Great concept! That is perhaps what I use subconsciously as well while casting the call girls in the cab or on a sidewalk.

There are those that I want badly (C), those that I will not have (A), and those that I do not mind having (B).

After we start interacting in my kitchen, and later on in the bedroom, (B) may magically transform into a (C) as I want her again and again.

Similarly (C) may get downgraded to (B), and very seldom even to an (A).

I do get an occasional misfire when the girl passes the initial screening. Due to the lowered guard (tired or drunk and desperately horny), I may ignore the first signs of her not being up to specs, and then get disappointed. Not really disappointed because I lost money, but mostly because I always try to not simply copulate and ejaculate, but make it work at a higher level, between two persons. Also because a couple hours of my precious time is lost. Picking 2-3 candidates via Viber, while making jokes with dispatcher, then 20-30-40 minutes for their cab ride to me, 60 minutes action at my place, and at least another 20 to restart the process.

Questionably, there exists also a fourth category (D). Those women that I wanted badly during the initial casting, that were good or even very good for the hour, except I am not interested in seeing them anymore. Most of the time it is either hygiene or their mental health related. Some of them try to control me, or try too hard to please, or are too submissive, or something else I can not explain. I may even have the fondest memory and no desire to see her again, period. It could also be the girl offering herself in the way that is too obvious, and I want to have an illusion of winning her over, impression that she is not as easy to get by anybody, and that I made the choice, even though ultimately the decision is hers. Also any attempt to establish monogamy or limit my freedom leads to rejection.

Well, enough self praise.

DramaFree11

01-07-19, 04:19

Couple things you can change to get more success in Kiev:

The first one GDreams explained the best. Be concise, and do not give too much information, go straight to the point: "I am in Kiev right now. Would like to meet" No need to explain your age. The initial objective is simple. Get her phone number, and arrange for a meeting.

The second one Kozerog described in sufficient detail. Kiev ladies want respect and money. They can feel even a smallest hint of you lacking self-confidence, and you thinking badly of them. That is why many foreign visitors come to Kiev, expecting local females with no income swarming and begging to get fucked, and instead those visitors are ignored.

This is precisely why Riina found his gold mine of Ukrainian students in Chicago. He treats them nicely, and not just money-wise.

Going further away from the subject at hand, I never ask for a call girl's personal phone number when we are just starting in my apartment for the first time ever. I want her to feel that she is special. And to my taste, many of them indeed deserve to be thought of as special ones. Then my chances at great love making improve significantly, and if the lady is pleased, especially if she has orgasm, she may give me her phone number upon departure, and as Kozerog said, I may eventually turn her into my LT GF..Very good post, honest and sincere. We may disagree about a lot of things about Kiev, but I do appreciate this post. Good job.

PhotoSlider

01-07-19, 07:34

Is it normal to pay the same fee for a walk around town as for sex?This is actually one of the FAQs with Kiev Agencies. And their answer is simple:

- You pay for the time with the lady. What you do during that time, watch a movie at the cinema, have a dinner, make love, or walk around the city, is up to you.

Make no mistake, girls want to make money to pay for rent, food, manicure, summer shoes with high heels or warm winter boots, so that they continue to look great and make more money. Even semi-pro mindset is not that far from yours, while you were driving a cab at a certain rate per kilometer and a minute. In that respect you answered your own question.

There is obviously a price difference between walking hand in hand admiring Kiev architecture, and having anal sex. That is why pros and semi-pros want to know how many hours, how much, and what is expected.

She may go with you for a walk, if trust has been established in prior visits, but even beforehand it should make sense to her. As Kozerog stated, be a good repeat customer. If she sees in you reasonable potential, that has been realized in the past, she will continue, as long as there's nobody better. It's constant hunting for a better suitor.

Member #4722

01-07-19, 17:31

Don't forget to wish your Ukrainian girlfriends Merry Christmas today!

FuckedUpSwede

01-07-19, 22:13

There is obviously a price difference between walking hand in hand admiring Kiev architecture, and having anal sex.I'm really glad to hear that!. Then I will try to solve another problem of mine in the process. The sort of club I want to visit in Kiev is often a bit picky. It is normally easier to get in if you are in company with a lady. I could pay her full price to enter the club with me for an hour, give her some drinks if she wants, and then she can choose to party on with me without payment and then follow me to my apartment and the meter starts ticking again at full rate. She can with this setup potentially go and meet with another monger while I party and then meet me at my apartment. Probably she will choose this and that do not bother me since this kind of clubbing experience is quite a solo thing for me anyway. Win win or am I to logical again and will be rejected?

PhotoSlider

01-08-19, 03:30

I'm really glad to hear that!. Then I will try to solve another problem of mine in the process. The sort of club I want to visit in Kiev is often a bit picky. It is normally easier to get in if you are in company with a lady. I could pay her full price to enter the club with me for an hour, give her some drinks if she wants, and then she can choose to party on with me without payment and then follow me to my apartment and the meter starts ticking again at full rate. She can with this setup potentially go and meet with another monger while I party and then meet me at my apartment. Probably she will choose this and that do not bother me since this kind of clubbing experience is quite a solo thing for me anyway. Win win or am I to logical again and will be rejected?If you try to explain the whole arrangement to your lady beforehand, she will find it too complicated and may reject.

She can agree to the offer of escorting you to the club (without sex) for an hour, and I would not prepay.

I would also state that if there is chemistry between the two of you, you can extend later on, but do not go into particular details.

If she doesn't find any alternative inside the club, and she thinks you are "palatable" she herself will ask you to extend before the hour expires. That's when you can suggest to hang out at the club together for a bit, and pay for an hour at your place, again, assuming you do not find anybody better yourself. At this point she will either say "Fuck it!" and disappear in an unknown direction to continue her hunting, or she will say:

- Fuck this club, let's go to your place right away, as you are so handsome, and since my high school teenage years I had a dream of making passionate love to a Swedish boy!

That's where you need to decide to stay at the Club or go for extra-curriculum activity.

Forgive my saying all the obvious things. I assume this is how you wanted to approach it yourself in the first place.

Kiev modus operandi is go-with-the-flow. For me, it is next to impossible to calculate the night before how my next day will play out. I may have a reliable GF lined up, and at the last moment she will say "Sorry, darling, I can't tonight". Or deliberately have nobody planned at all, and around 6-7 pm, with one lady already on the way, the other one would be demanding to meet right now, because later she has other plans, leaving no room for negotiation. And that's the beauty of it in Kiev.

This September I was chasing Ukrainian girls in the most promiscuous manner, and as great as it was, I certainly admire what one of distinguished Forum members showed me when we met in Kiev. He was calm, relaxed, confident and content. He screened the girls one after another, and kept only one per day. I switched to his approach, except not much screening was required due to already established base, and both of us sharing contacts. Some of the days I've been wondering if tonight I would be alone, and "alas", it never happened.

Misterxxx

01-08-19, 13:02

Don't forget to wish your Ukrainian girlfriends Merry Christmas today!Too late. The correct date for Christmas wishes is the 6th of January. After 6 pm.

It is the traditional time. Then all families sit together and eat 12 dishes. Including "Kutia". A buckwheat meal.

FuckedUpSwede

01-08-19, 16:15

- Fuck this club, let's go to your place right away, as you are so handsome, and since my high school teenage years I had a dream of making passionate love to a Swedish boy!

That's where you need to decide to stay at the Club or go for extra-curriculum activity.I must say your posts are very amusing to read.

Yes I see this as a most realistic scenario, not that I am that handsome but working girls are very good at selling their product. In which case I plan to rent an apartment within walking distance.

The reason for my interest in Kiev was originally that I need to go to Tel-Aviv in the beginning of April and the transit thru Kiev is convenient. Then I thought. What the heck, I have not seen Kiev so why not stay a day or two in the transit. Now I may go there just for pleasure before that!

Riina

01-08-19, 17:57

Now I may go there just for pleasure before that!I recommend calling the girls at Gia as to not waste time. However, Kiev is about short term financial relationships. So work on that if you stick around.

PhotoSlider

01-08-19, 23:52

I recommend calling the girls at Gia as to not waste time. However, Kiev is about short term financial relationships. So work on that if you stick around.For 2 days visit, - totally! Former GIA, or Kiev escort club, as it is known now, might be a better fit. There is some level of reliability with KEC girls. Short term visit typically means you pay more, unless there are verified contacts available from previous visits.

PhotoSlider

01-09-19, 00:21

Yes I see this as a most realistic scenario, not that I am that handsome but working girls are very good at selling their product. In which case I plan to rent an apartment within walking distance.If you mean next to club "Closer", well AirBnB shows apartment within 5-7 minutes walk. How did you find this club? I recall someone here mentioned it about a year or so ago. Not really as a place with working girls, but picking up civilians was possible.

The reason for my interest in Kiev was originally that I need to go to Tel-Aviv in the beginning of April and the transit thru Kiev is convenient. Then I thought. What the heck, I have not seen Kiev so why not stay a day or two in the transit. Now I may go there just for pleasure before that!I did precisely that in 2014. Expected a stopover in Amsterdam on my way from Greece, and then, what the heck, decided to fly through Kiev instead. Changed the flights.

36 hours, 6 girls. One of them, 20 yo shy sweetheart at the time, is my favorite GF now Cabaret "Mandarin" was working in those days, I took Albina for $300, she was still young, lovely legs, superb skills! Before departing for the airport we ordered 2 girls, for me and my friend. I didn't like either one. But we kept both, and I ordered 2 more from the Agency that doesn't exist anymore. Kiev agencies are like mushrooms on the rainy day. Better ladies arrived, both went with me upstairs, and there was some confusion when they saw the other two still at our apartment. I chose Lana, she looked around, and suggested to do threesome WMW:

- Let's take Tanya as well. It is not proper to leave her there.

It was good fun. Probably one of my best 36 hours in Kiev. This December 2018 is comparable with 5 girls in the last 40 hours before the airport. All of the girls I knew from before. One was fun, and I am probably done with her. The other 4 I would repeat again and again and again any time!

FuckedUpSwede

01-09-19, 13:34

How did you find this club? I recall someone here mentioned it about a year or so ago. Not really as a place with working girls, but picking up civilians was possible.Yup, this the kind of place with trance music on high volume and boys / girls looking like walking dead in front of a stroboscope (or at least I hope it is). I have no intent of finding a girl there. I like the trance experience and have been going to this kind of clubs for 26 years. The main occupants are quite often gay males and that's why it is good to bring a female to raise your chances to get in (they want a better mix).

I truly believe your financial resources far exceeds mine P.S., I am only a poor engineer. I see the mongering part more like the icing on the cake than the main event. When I go to Kiev my main goals is to stroll around and absorb the town and later visit this club. If I can end the visit with some Caucasian lovemaking it would be great fun. I was in Frankfurt some time ago visiting a FKK on the day, fucking like a rabbit, then moved on to a great club until morning. Perfect combination. I did the same thing in Seville a week ago. I think working girls are exciting because they are honest, the fucking part is not that great according to my very limited experience.

Riina

01-09-19, 16:42

For 2 days visit, - totally! Former GIA, or Kiev escort club, as it is known now, might be a better fit. There is some level of reliability with KEC girls. Short term visit typically means you pay more, unless there are verified contacts available from previous visits.https://kievescort.club/

KEC is a good start. It's my experience that if you meet any agency girl that you like and she likes you, you're almost guaranteed to get her number on the third meeting. Agencies have their rules, but a good customer is irresistible to a Ukrainian escort. A lot can happen from these types of relationships.

You can grind through the cheaper agencies and get the same results. But once again, this takes time.

Kozerog

01-10-19, 00:34

It's my experience that if you meet any agency girl that you like and she likes you, you're almost guaranteed to get her number on the third meeting. Agencies have their rules, but a good customer is irresistible to a Ukrainian escort. A lot can happen from these types of relationships.

You can grind through the cheaper agencies and get the same results. But once again, this takes time.I currently have a regular escort and plan to stick with her indefinitely if possible, but there's always the possibility of needing to replace her someday, which is why I continue reading this forum, hoping to discover some shortcuts to finding another jewel. Thank you for stating clearly what my cheapskate mind was unable to figure out on its own.

KEC really isn't that expensive if used this way. Suppose I grind through 20 KEC girls at $250 for 2 hours each to find another regular, then arrange to pay this future regular $150 for each meeting of 3 hours outside KEC. So I spend an extra $2000 during my 3 months in Kyiv compared to what I'm spending now, which I can easily afford, contrary to what my cheapskate mind says. In exchange for that $2000, I meet 19 girls besides the future regular, which is worth something even to someone like me who doesn't crave variety, and I avoid who knows how many unpleasant experiences by trying to save money with hidden agencies, which is worth a lot.

DramaFree11

01-10-19, 00:45

PhotoSlider

01-10-19, 04:02

I currently have a regular escort and plan to stick with her indefinitely if possible, but there's always the possibility of needing to replace her someday, which is why I continue reading this forum, hoping to discover some shortcuts to finding another jewel. Thank you for stating clearly what my cheapskate mind was unable to figure out on its own.

KEC really isn't that expensive if used this way. Suppose I grind through 20 KEC girls at $250 for 2 hours each to find another regular, then arrange to pay this future regular $150 for each meeting of 3 hours outside KEC. So I spend an extra $2000 during my 3 months in Kyiv compared to what I'm spending now, which I can easily afford, contrary to what my cheapskate mind says. In exchange for that $2000, I meet 19 girls besides the future regular, which is worth something even to someone like me who doesn't crave variety, and I avoid who knows how many unpleasant experiences by trying to save money with hidden agencies, which is worth a lot.Over the course of 2 years I believe I had 8 or 9 GIA-KEC girls. Expensive for short term, even for 2-3 hours, but overall quite good. They kept me happy.

I have personal phone numbers for six of those girls. Nothing KEC can do about it.

One refused to give her phone number, no matter how hard I tried. She was one of the best performers in the bedroom. Later on she decided she can make more money outside of GIA framework, and is not with them for over 2 years now.

Another one was very good in bed, and shitty attitude outside. I did not ask for her phone number. She left GIA, then joined again, and left again.

One graduated University, and either got a permanent job, or got married. Last time she responded on Viber was a year ago. Perfect example of me being forgotten because we didn't meet frequently enough. She was very good. Young, beautiful, shy, didn't talk much, but friendly, smoking hot in the bedroom. Left GIA.

One was good as an escort, great in conversation. But did not deliver in bed and at times was disrespectful. Perhaps my somewhat abnormal personality did not impress her. She was greedy, and I totally understand that relationship with GIA girls is based on money. But most importantly she did not deliver on her potential. Yes I need sex every day, and preferably 2 or 3 times every day: morning, before the night entertainment, and while retiring for sleep. Once in 4-5 days is not enough. So we called it quits after substantial time together.

That leaves four GIA-KEC girls, all of them retired from that Agency. All of them still available and reply to my messages.

$150 for 3 hour meeting is probably reasonable and doable, maybe not with all of them. I paid from $240 for 24 hours with one of the best, all the way to $300 per visit to another very lovely lady, and she stayed with me anywhere from 2 to 10 hours on multiple occasions.

All of the above 6 ladies gave their personal phone numbers while meeting with me for the very first time. I can explain my approach via PM. Riina's advice (after 2/3 meetings) might be more reliable.

GIA gave more freedom to their girls, compared to other lower class agencies, where girls have their smartphones checked, and a multi-level penalty structure is implemented for policy violations. But GIA-KEC takes away 60%, and girls rent their own apartments. Therefore unauthorized contacts with customers are almost inevitable.

Anyway, about 30% of lower class agency girls gave me their phone number on the first meeting. Somehow with me they either give the phone number right away on the first try, or they do not even when I ask after the second or third meeting.

Getting phone numbers is a must anywhere. Mamba, KEC, agency, street hunting, anywhere! That's the only way to build a reliable network of beauties available for reasonable price. Actually another one is Instagram. Used a lot in Kiev. It doesn't require a phone number, and some girls prefer it over Viber, WhatsApp and Telegram. Almost nobody does Facebook anymore.

$2000 for 19 girls not bad at all. Most of mine were 2100 UAH / hour plus some food and drinks. About the same. Plus for good ones I had mini presents: good cosmetics. Small size lotion cream. Do not recall who recommended it: Riina or Rog123? And I did not register when giving away that mini-present resulted in a phone number, because my criteria was different. Presents given away to girls that made me very happy.

Cheers!

Riina

01-10-19, 16:48

Getting phone numbers is a must anywhere.When you're trying to friend any Ukrainian, tell her immediately that you're trying to find a wife in Ukraine. They all have friends that feel socially and economically trapped.

DramaFree11

01-10-19, 18:06

When you're trying to friend any Ukrainian, tell her immediately that you're trying to find a wife in Ukraine. They all have friends that feel socially and economically trapped.Disagree slightly, tell them you are looking to Sponsorship, not all girls want to get married and believe or not a lot of girls have no desire to go to the States. They know that is difficult and chances are they might have to work there and we all know that they are allergic to work. A person also posted about this in the past how most Ukraine girls fall in America, major adjustment in life.

Kozerog

01-10-19, 18:54

Getting phone numbers is a must anywhere. Mamba, KEC, agency, street hunting, anywhere! That's the only way to build a reliable network of beauties available for reasonable price. Actually another one is Instagram. Used a lot in Kiev. It doesn't require a phone number, and some girls prefer it over Viber, WhatsApp and Telegram. Almost nobody does Facebook anymore.

$2000 for 19 girls not bad at all. Most of mine were 2100 UAH / hour plus some food and drinks.Just to clarify, that $2000 for test driving 20 is above and beyond 20 * $150 = $3000 that I pay my current regular for 20 meetings. So $5000 total for 20 test drives, though actually might be more like $6000, since not all the KEC girls are $250 for 2 hours. Many are $350 or higher. Still affordable for me, since I only want a girl three times a week if new girl each time (twice weekly if same girl), so working through 20 girls and $6000 would take 2 months.

I went with 1 hour initially with those hidden agencies, because they make it easy to extend, but now I'm thinking less than 2 hours a bad idea. 1 hour initially is planning for failure, assuming girl will be so bad I will be anxious to get rid of her. Sort of defensive negative cheapskate thinking that always gets me in trouble with women (though it works fine elsewhere in life).

Anyway, this is all a moot point at present since I'm happy with my jewel and she knows I'm coming again this summer: plane tickets bought, apartment reserved.

Here's a question for fellow mongers. Obviously, at some point the man has to get the girl's number, but what do you guys think about giving her your number and / or Instagram initially, if she seems reluctant to give hers? With a civilian, that would be very wimpy and guarantee nothing ever happened. But paying client maybe is different? (Privacy not an issue for me. Nobody cares about me and what I do other than maybe some relatives who I never talk to who'd be happy to see me die soon and leave them am inheritance instead of spending all my money on girls in Ukraine.).

Riina

01-10-19, 20:01

Disagree slightly, tell them you are looking to Sponsorship, not all girls want to get married and believe or not a lot of girls have no desire to go to the States. They know that is difficult and chances are they might have to work there and we all know that they are allergic to work. A person also posted about this in the past how most Ukraine girls fall in America, major adjustment in life.I'm referring to a girls friends. They all have friends looking for greener pastures. I meet some young hot Ukrainians sometimes and I have no chance with them specifically. But they got girlfriends that would kill to come to my country. When they connect me to a FB link of a close friend, first thing I say is boys should help girls and start inferring sponsorship to grab attention. Plus the hot chick I never had a chance with now has a motive to stay friends with me. Try it. It works.

The truth is most girls that land in America eventually become disgusted with Western culture.

PhotoSlider

01-10-19, 20:27

Here's a question for fellow mongers. Obviously, at some point the man has to get the girl's number, but what do you guys think about giving her your number and / or Instagram initially, if she seems reluctant to give hers? With a civilian, that would be very wimpy and guarantee nothing ever happened. But paying client maybe is different? (Privacy not an issue for me...).Privacy may not be an issue, but reasonable precautions do not hurt.

1. Separate monger-phone. Physically separate, with no contacts overlap between the two, and no information exchanged via email. The reason is simple: Google, Skype, Facebook, Instagram are intrusive, they constantly hunt and collect information, but what is worse, they reveal it to my contacts.

In the past Gmail and Google Hangouts chat have been offering contacts from the list of my Kiev girlfriends. That is not my list, but theirs. Through the Skype I could see my girlfriends escort agencies names.

It went as far, as for one of my friend's in Kiev his escort learned his real life last name and more through Facebook, suggesting her to connect with him based on his personal phone number.

I do not simply switch SIM cards. I have physically separate monger-phone with separate AppleID, GoogleID, different Instagram, non-Google email and more. This phone may simply stay on WiFi in a flight more, no money needed. I go to Kiev once or twice a year, and so far didn't lose Kyivstar phone number, even when funds are depleted. Everybody does it while away from Ukraine.

I have not been in situations when my phone number or email could have been used against me with malicious intent. The worst was email about a year ago, asking for bitcoin deposit, threatening to reveal an erotic video featuring me as a villain, or maybe a protagonist. Still salivating in anticipation to submit it to Adult Video Academy Awards.

Any other threats? Please do share.

2. With the above said, I do not mind giving out my non-personal Kiev Instagram, and mongering phone number.

As you said, girls are reluctant to give theirs. Here is my trick: I do not ask for girl's phone number directly. But I give her more than my phone number. I hand over her my smartphone, and ask to dial herself, so that she would know my number, when I contact her. It is essentially the same, but psychologically makes it easier. Then my chances of her responding are higher. I scan right away for her presence in Viber, WhatsApp, Telegram, and ask what the preference is in terms of her own privacy and convenience.

I also say the proverbial "Prefer to pay you directly instead of agency" blah-blah-blah.

Instagram is similar. Most of the girls are addicted to it badly. They want everybody to see thousands of their selfies, and admire their beauty. Again, show her your souped up Kiev Instagram, demonstrating what an interesting person you are. Let her browse, she may ask for permission to follow you.

After that the question is. Do you have time for constant IG junkies and Viber chats? That is the main drawback. Other than that, IG and Viber allow to block pesky abusers.