Kyiv

[PhotoSlider]

The truth is most girls that land in America eventually become disgusted with Western culture.Ukrainian or any?

I try to explain to girls and boys in Kiev that there is no better City than theirs in the whole wide world. And those, that were not much outside of Ukraine, are perplexed. They keep telling me: "Everybody wants out, and you go against the flow".

Yes I do.

Where else can I satisfy my lowly instincts and insatiable thirst for beauty to such a full extent except Kiev? Where else my buck can go such a distance?

Western world for Ukrainian girls with their life habits is a jail, just like for many of us, international mongers. And I am not talking about them Ukrainian girls being lazy, and not willing to work. It is about personal freedom, and enjoying their youth, of being loved and admired for looking so hot. Instead of accumulating debts and criticized for behaving too sexy.

For us, mongers. Kiev is an illusion of another reincarnation, of becoming young again.

[DramaFree11]

Ukrainian or any?

I try to explain to girls and boys in Kiev that there is no better City than theirs in the whole wide world. And those, that were not much outside of Ukraine, are perplexed. They keep telling me: "Everybody wants out, and you go against the flow".

Yes I do.

Where else can I satisfy my lowly instincts and insatiable thirst for beauty to such a full extent except Kiev? Where else my buck can go such a distance?

Western world for Ukrainian girls with their life habits is a jail, just like for many of us, international mongers. And I am not talking about them Ukrainian girls being lazy, and not willing to work. It is about personal freedom, and enjoying their youth, of being loved and admired for looking so hot. Instead of accumulating debts and criticized for behaving too sexy.

For us, mongers. Kiev is an illusion of another reincarnation, of becoming young again.

Completely wrong most are lazy and average looking, sorry the rest of the post is correct. These girls would actually have to work 40-60 hours a week, like everyone else, in the Western World. And they do now want this lifestyle.

[DramaFree11]

I try to explain to girls and boys in Kiev that there is no better City than theirs in the whole wide world. And those, that were not much outside of Ukraine, are perplexed. They keep telling me: "Everybody wants out, and you go against the flow".

Yes I do.

Where else can I satisfy my lowly instincts and insatiable thirst for beauty to such a full extent except Kiev? Where else my buck can go such a distance?

People have been leaving Kiev for year, I use to tell them the same thing. There is no future there now, they want a better life. I know this is hard to understand, but this is the truth, I am have reported on this several times.

[DramaFree11]

Just finishing my second trip to Moscow in the last 2 months. I probably met 40-60 new people throughout my trips. Probably 8-10, where from Ukraine. Even though I am trying to avoid Ukraine like the plague it follows me everywhere.

All said that Ukraine was finished and there is no future there. One of the girls told me that 70% of her friends had left the country, some come back for Visa reasons, but are trying to leave the country full time now. She said that the people that our left can not leave because of age, have figured out how to make a decent living in Ukraine or have failed in there travels. Take this for what is worth, but you need to think about this when you are planning a trip to Kiev, it is only going to get worse.

When I lived in Kiev all people talked about was leaving the country, that was 4 years ago, I can only imagine what it is like now.This post, is appropriate for today discussion. Others are posting about people wanting to leave Kiev, it is a huge problem, it is important for Newbies, to understand how big of an issue this is. This one of the main reasons for the decline of Kiev and in influx of S. Tour.

[DramaFree11]

I'm referring to a girls friends. They all have friends looking for greener pastures. I meet some young hot Ukrainians sometimes and I have no chance with them specifically. But they got girlfriends that would kill to come to my country. When they connect me to a FB link of a close friend, first thing I say is boys should help girls and start inferring sponsorship to grab attention. Plus the hot chick I never had a chance with now has a motive to stay friends with me. Try it. It works.

The truth is most girls that land in America eventually become disgusted with Western culture.Nice, Report, I met several that went to America, and almost 90% failed, for one reason or another. Back in the day the number was lower, now they are more spoiled and have more options, I would say the chance of success are very slim, just to different of life, that being said if they put in the hard work, they could adapt fairly quickly, just not that difficult if you prepare and are not afraid of hard work.

[Riina]

Western world for Ukrainian girls with their life habits is a jail, just like for many of us, international mongers. And I am not talking about them Ukrainian girls being lazy, and not willing to work. It is about personal freedom, and enjoying their youth, of being loved and admired for looking so hot. Instead of accumulating debts and criticized for behaving too sexy.Yeah and it counter balances well with older guys that already have money and are no longer interested in economic slavery.

[PhotoSlider]

Yeah and it counter balances well with older guys that already have money and are no longer interested in economic slavery.Mister Riina knows a thing or two about worldwide mongering! Even under the most hostile circumstances he found prosperity in more than one way.

[PhotoSlider]

...Well we differ, and that's good. What a boring world if we were all the same!...This is one of my favorite posts on this Forum!

The art of civilized dispute, and respectfully disagreeing.

To be continued for sure!

[TinyHippo]

Privacy may not be an issue, but reasonable precautions do not hurt.

1. Separate monger-phone. Physically separate, with no contacts overlap between the two, and no information exchanged via email. The reason is simple: Google, Skype, Facebook, Instagram are intrusive, they constantly hunt and collect information, but what is worse, they reveal it to my contacts.

In the past Gmail and Google Hangouts chat have been offering contacts from the list of my Kiev girlfriends. That is not my list, but theirs. Through the Skype I could see my girlfriends escort agencies names.

It went as far, as for one of my friend's in Kiev his escort learned his real life last name and more through Facebook, suggesting her to connect with him based on his personal phone number.I learned this a long time ago in the 90's. I left my phone in the glove box while my girlfriend sat in the car while I went in a shop and then my other girl called. My GF answered the phone. That was some drama for sure.

A phone number / email can tie you to your real name and if you happen to put your dick in crazy, she will be able to reach out to your friends, your work, or post on your Instagram or wherever. I go as far as to make exclusive pics for Mamba / Monger Apps just in case Google Images reverse search works. Girls often do not even delete their Whatsapp / Viber messages. I once canceled a Mamba appointment and then wrote the girl six months later and she sent me a screen shot of me writing that I was canceling our appointment! It blew my mind. So as Slider said, be sure to keep two phones. This is also really handy because you can just turn off your Monger phone when you do not need it in use or when you are back home.

I would never give an escort or Mamba girl my Instagram, but I am pretty popular photographer on Instagram and this has worked well for me on Tinder. Interesting Instagram = interesting foreigner.

[PhotoSlider]

...A phone number / email can tie you to your real name and if you happen to put your dick in crazy, she will be able to reach out to your friends, your work, or post on your Instagram or wherever..."Happen to put your dick in crazy." What a wonderful way to explain what happens in Kiev, and not always stays in Kiev!

One day, out of the blue, Kiev friend of mine had a question from one of his mistresses:

- Facebook suggested you to me as a friend!

Well, fortunately she was not a crazy, but she surely had her fun, as he looked totally surprised and lost. But she continued:

- I see you are married. How wonderful! Can you tell me a little bit about your wife? What kind of person is she?

And she had the most mischievous smile on her face. Well, he declined any further conversation on the subject, and she treated him in the most gracious way, as she thought that continuing relationship ultimately was to her benefit. But the moment was rather unpleasant. For him. She enjoyed it to full extent.

I also know a guy, that was fired from his lucrative Microsoft job in Bellevue / Seattle after a crazy contacted his employer.

So, the essence of the story: fortified demarcation line and two separate lives, and no overlap. Like between North and South Korea.


I would never give an escort or Mamba girl my Instagram, but I am pretty popular photographer on Instagram and this has worked well for me on Tinder. Interesting Instagram = interesting foreigner.I keep two separate Instagram accounts with different pictures. It definitely grabs girls attention, and in my case not as much my pictures. Girls want to be followed, get attention.

On a separate IG related subject. Today had a request for funds from a lovely lady with supposedly a serious sickness. A little later she posted her new pictures, looking great and everything. Now, about 20 hours later she is miraculously cured. Go figure! Must be one of those cheaters, that are on every corner in Kiev, those vultures waiting to rip you apart and eat alive. Got to stay vigilant, and the best way to fight their attempts is not to go to Kiev at all, and forget about sex for the rest of our miserable existence!

[Kozerog]

So, the essence of the story: fortified demarcation line and two separate lives, and no overlap.
For those who have wives, families, jobs, etc, I can see the rationale, but since I have none of those reasons for hiding what I do, I'm sorely tempted to be fully open.

Civilian girls in Kyiv are very suspicious and assume the worst anyway. At my social activities, girls frequently ask where I'm from and why I'm in Kyiv. Some roll their eyes upon hearing that I'm a "tourist", other put on a disgusted face, others seem excited and attracted by the idea that I'm "one of those guys".

I'd actually prefer everyone knew for certain that I was a monger, as long as they also knew I pay typical foreigner prices (about $150 per 4 hour session with my jewel, or $300/ week, plus bonus at my discretion). What I hate is when girls think I'm trying to get sex for free or cheaply in Kyiv.

[DramaFree11]

I have written on GIA a lot, you can look at some of the past points. It should only be use for 2 things:

1. First is you are in Kiev for business quick trip, definitely works great for that.

2. If you are planning on living in Kiev or staying for long periods of time. As others have said get there phone numbers and negotiate. Not sure that is as easy as they say, but you try. Also you need to remember these girls travel a lot, so you probably need 2 or 3. That is going to take some serous time and big budget.

If you are planning on visiting for 4-7 days and plan on using High End Agencies, it is just a waste of money. You can go to many other destinations and hook up with actual real models for the prices guys are paying in Kiev, now for High End Escorts. Anything above $150, for multiple hours in Kiev, is way too much to be with 6's and that is what 90% of them are, maybe a couple of 7's. 6's are very attainable in Kiev, anything else is very difficult for foreigners.

[PhotoSlider]

I pay typical foreigner prices (about $150 per 4 hour session with my jewel, or $300/ week, plus bonus at my discretion). What I hate is when girls think I'm trying to get sex for free or cheaply in Kyiv.Your prices are reasonable, not cheap, but very much reasonable for both, consumer and provider, taking into account you do not see your lady every day, and she doesn't stay overnight. Yet I would consider that typical foreigner on average pays considerably higher.

You are unique in many ways. During my last trip I tried to implement some of your principles, and without limiting me, it cut the expenses in half.

[PhotoSlider]

I learned this a long time ago in the 90's. I left my phone in the glove box while my girlfriend sat in the car while I went in a shop and then my other girl called. My GF answered the phone. That was some drama for sure.1. One of my ladies in similar situations says:

- I am a big girl, I understand.

Still, she may have a sad face, and I do my best to respect her feelings.

2. Another one says:

- I am not your wife or girlfriend. You do what you want to do.

But it is a two way street and some of the girls are attached to their phones with umbilical cord everywhere, managing the candidates. Those are not the keepers. Kozerog explained his view on the subject. I am not that aggressive, I simply dismiss smartphone junkies without explaining much. Philosophy is simple, the two of us should have sufficient interest in each other. My phone is away when we have dinner, or go to Theater, unless there is an exceptional photo opportunity. Then I ask for permission.

3. There was one truly beautiful hot hot hot girl, that decided to answer Viber message about arranging her portfolio photo session while riding on top of me. I expressed my astonishment, and she, in a matter-of-fact style, without slowing down gyrations of her amazing butt, explained that answering right this moment is extremely important to her career advancement.

4. One of the best GFs turned her own phone off for the duration, and didn't answer anything while she was with me or at my residence, even when we were together for multiple days. Considering the level of her addiction to selfies (she did take at least 70 selfies a day on mine, every day, day in and day out), that was some serious self discipline). She also left her phone face up in the bedroom while taking a long shower. There is a high demand for her, as she is one of the best in bed. IMO on the scale from 1 to 10 she is 10 with her attitude and 21 with performance, therefore she is rather confident that she will not be left without attention. Still somehow I was lucky to be with her for a long time before she hardened eventually.

During our days together we agreed not to go for dinner at the same place again. It was interesting, because we both are rather picky, but fortunately Kiev has enough to offer. She looked stunning. Gorgeous hair, stiletto heels shoes, legs probably 1 meter 20 long. And we both had smiles walking into those restaurants, sitting down, and watching the other males turning their heads and dropping jaws. I asked her:

- Are they trying to figure out if I am your father?

And she answered with the smile:

- Why are you sitting so far away? Kiss me please, so that they have no doubts.

5. And another lady used to get Viber messages from her fiancee without hiding anything from me. Didn't even turn over her phone face down on the nightstand next to our bed. Inadvertently I could see that popup notifications came from "Lyubimyi / My Love". She also sincerely asked for my advice about him. She still does, and visibly values it.

Polygamy in Kiev goes both ways.

[VivalDim]

Hello everyone,

Newcomer in Ukraine here, any recommendation for good club / parties? I'll have one week end of January. Thanks.

[DramaFree11]

Hello everyone,

Newcomer in Ukraine here, any recommendation for good club / parties? I'll have one week end of January. Thanks.Night Life is bad in Kiev, best stick with Escorts. Friday's are the nights that people do go out, but very hit or miss.

Sorry for the bad news!

[Kingmax Xx]

I have written on GIA a lot, you can look at some of the past points. It should only be use for 2 things:

1. First is you are in Kiev for business quick trip, definitely works great for that.

2. If you are planning on living in Kiev or staying for long periods of time. As others have said get there phone numbers and negotiate. Not sure that is as easy as they say, but you try. Also you need to remember these girls travel a lot, so you probably need 2 or 3. That is going to take some serous time and big budget.

If you are planning on visiting for 4-7 days and plan on using High End Agencies, it is just a waste of money. You can go to many other destinations and hook up with actual real models for the prices guys are paying in Kiev, now for High End Escorts. Anything above $150, for multiple hours in Kiev, is way too much to be with 6's and that is what 90% of them are, maybe a couple of 7's. 6's are very attainable in Kiev, anything else is very difficult for foreigners.Could you tell me where is the "other destinations and hook up with actual real models"?

[PhotoSlider]

Newcomer in Ukraine here, any recommendation for good club / parties? I'll have one week end of January. Thanks.There is a wide spectrum of opinions on the subject. However, even with the most optimistic position, or outright negative criticism, in reality no cookie cutter answer exists for Kiev.

What are your requirements for Ukrainian ladies? Can you afford spending $300-400 on a girl from Rio strip club, knowing that after private dance test drive, she may, or may not, live up to your expectations of passionate love making?

What is your age? How successful are you with women in your own environment? Can you talk to the girl that you never met before on the street, when she just finished her University classes, and crossed the street? Can you dismiss rejection again and again, and find the strength to keep trying?

Many newbies succeed on the first one-week try in Kiev. Some report here on their approach in the happiest manner, some don't.

Those that fail, frequently blame Kiev and rarely themselves. Honest ones occasionally find mistakes in their philosophy and behavior, and Forum benefits from their thoughts sharing.

IMHO failure here and there represents statistically random nature of the matter at hand, that is Ukrainian ladies and their love. If you are successful back home, maybe your chances in Kiev are higher. It is definitely not for faint-hearted, but it is not as grim as one would imagine. There's lot of fun to be had in Kiev!

How many pages of this Forum / how far back did you read? All the answers are there. Nobody will create a new digest.

[DramaFree11]

Could you tell me where is the "other destinations and hook up with actual real models"?Moscow and parts of Mexico, but this takes time and money. You can read some of my old posts.

[DramaFree11]

I actually like RIO, but for the price sorry, no way. The quality of girls is just not that great anymore, there was s time, but not now. Time you pay travel expenses you are way over $400-500, just not worth it hook up with a 5 or 6.

The last 2 times I went with my old girlfriend she was 5'8", 105, Beautiful girl. She laughed at the quality of girls there. She, said, "I thought this is where the most beautiful girls in Kiev Work, then laughed. " Many others have also posted about Rio, and selection of girls, just average girls and way overpriced. As I recall also very difficult to get phone numbers there, but do not quote me on this one.

I did have a lot of good memories of the place, back in the day.

[PhotoSlider]

Hello everyone,

Newcomer in Ukraine here, any recommendation for good club / parties? I'll have one week end of January. Thanks.Try this 3 part report, written by a newbie short time visitor to Kiev:

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2123282&viewfull=1#post2123282

IMHO it is a perfect example of properly set expectations and a good prep work, leading to a successful implementation by a happy guy, who in the end was sorry to leave Kiev.

[PhotoSlider]

Hello everyone,

Newcomer in Ukraine here, any recommendation for good club / parties? I'll have one week end of January. Thanks.Trance Club "Closer" in Podol has been mentioned here as a gay bar where straight individuals are tolerated.

One of the girls promised to take me to "Heaven" downtown, but we got distracted, or perhaps she decided against being seen with me by her friends.

Arena-City has number of clubs, including strip and regular club house music. Didn't impress me, just like all those Dlux, Shooters, Caribbean and so on. Kontramarka. Ua, parter. Ua and other websites have calendar of events.

Karaoke bars are everywhere throughout downtown, but you would need a local to show you a good one.

Maybe hire a girl guide from showaround.com. She will not provide sex, but some of the guides know where to party, being it techno house music, trance, gay, BDSM, or whatever you like. Those show around guide girls live in Kiev, and charge anywhere from free to 5-10-24 USD an hour. For 5-10 bucks you can have a good female wingwoman, if agreed in advance. I hired twice just to keep me company for conversation, as at the time I couldn't have sex)). One lost control after few drinks, and started telling stories how she was slapping asses of her tourist guests at BDSM bar. She looked great, but in the end was too full of herself. The other guide was very classy, - intelligent, beautiful, conscientious. Very nice young lady.

I like "Avalon". It has multiple venues: Live Music on the main floor, Karaoke, Roof Terrace with great music, but it is not a party place, and not exactly for pick up. More of a relax with your own girl. Very good DJs, food, and eye candy.

Maybe try tripadvisor or even google maps? Not sure how much they can be trusted.

Many places are good at separating you from your money.

[DramaFree11]

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/...=1#post2123282.

IMHO it is a perfect example of properly set expectations and a good prep work, leading to a successful implementation by a happy guy, who in the end was sorry to leave Kiev.

Going back one year, to prove a point. , I love how my posts are proved indirectly The reason people do not post after the trip is for the following reasons:

1. Quality of girls and over-inflated prices.

2. Too many S. Tourists.

3. Zero Night Life.

4. Fake Profiles.

5. Too man scams.

6. Embarrassed.

In my opinion that people do not post is because individuals are happy and they do not want to spread the work is insane and delusional. I am happy to post about my good experiences in other countries.

Homework only help a little because of all the Fake Profiles, now you can referrals from other members, but that can be hit or miss, because I believe most that like Kiev have a very low standards, and love the pain that goes along with messing with Ukraine Women and there games. Not all, but a large percentage.

[DramaFree11]

Arena-City has number of clubs, including strip and regular club house music. Didn't impress me, just like all those Dlux, Shooters, Caribbean.

All these are dead and a big waste of money, time and resources. Stick with meeting girls on the street or agency, but be prepared it is just not that good.

[Fifino68]

I have a question for the guys who have been to Ukraine and know the works: those agencies like Ukrainian Brides etc, do they work for getting non pros? I mean, apart from getting a husband they might be looking for less definite agreements. Or is it just a scam? Thanks for the help.

[AntonySun1996]

Any recent experience?

[AntonySun1996]

I have a question for the guys who have been to Ukraine and know the works: those agencies like Ukrainian Brides etc, do they work for getting non pros? I mean, apart from getting a husband they might be looking for less definite agreements. Or is it just a scam? Thanks for the help.A good amount of those ladies on bride sites are paid to chat with foreigners trying to scam them.

Stay frosty.

[DramaFree11]

A good amount of those ladies on bride sites are paid to chat with foreigners trying to scam them.

Stay frosty.Very true. 5-10 years ago, probably not. Now common practice. Many of these girls make there living off this. They get a cut from the agency, restaurant, and bars. They also say they live far away and ask for a crazy about for there taxi fare. I have written about this a lot in the past, very good questions.

One of my good friends was the manager for one of these site and my ex-girlfriend also ran a site. Big scam stay away from these site.

[Kozerog]

I have a question for the guys who have been to Ukraine and know the works: those agencies like Ukrainian Brides etc, do they work for getting non pros? I mean, apart from getting a husband they might be looking for less definite agreements. Or is it just a scam? Thanks for the help.Some advice for guys looking for LTRs:

1. Minimize intermediaries, other than those that involve minimal cost (free or cheap online dating apps) or where intermediary truly wants you to succeed and be happy (your own grandmother as matchmaker, for examine). Marriage agencies are worse than useless. Quality Ukrainian women have no need to use marriage agencies to find boyfriends / husbands, so women at these agencies are either junk women (bad looking and / or bad personalities) or scammers (or maybe professional working girls if you're lucky).

2. Many working girls, especially those over age 25 or so, would prefer to have one or a small number of quality sponsors versus a parade of one-time clients. Escorts who want to become mistresses are perfect for foreign men seeking LTRs. Much better, IMO, than leftover women (women over age 25 who never worked as an escort but also never got married, either due to personality problems or not physically attractive). Single mothers another possibility, but quality civilian single mothers tend to go very slowly and foreign men are often short on time. Single mothers also often develop strongly independent and self-sufficient personality. Good character qualities in a business associate, not so good in a lover.

3. Marriage is obsolete. If a woman wants children, she can have them as a single mother and get child support. Be aware that Ukraine is a signatory to the Hague convention on child support, with all that entails. Only reason for marrying a Ukrainian woman is to get residency in Ukraine. Be careful about marrying if you have wealth that a wife would inherit upon your death. Income but no wealth is much safer. Consider annuitizing wealth, so as to convert into stream of income that stops upon your death, so that no one (besides insurance company) has incentive to see you die prematurely.

4.Never take a Ukrainian woman out of Ukraine permanently (short trips are fine). Men need to move to Ukraine if they want to ongoing access to the woman's body.

5. Treat all women as working girls. If a woman is not at least semi-pro when you meet her, try to convert her to semi-pro by being explicit about quantity of money or equivalent (gifts, vacations, restaurant meals, etc) given per sex act. If she reacts negatively, good riddance, because she'll just be trouble eventually. Ukrainian women seek out foreign men primarily for money, never forget that. If all a woman wants is sex or companionship, plenty of local men for that. When a Ukrainian woman seeks a foreign man but rejects explicit exchange of his money for her body, something is amiss. Either she is planning a scam or she is a fool of some sort. Scammer by far preferable, since nothing more dangerous than an unpredictable fool. Explicit exchange of man's money for woman's body should continue as long as relationship continues. Even if you are feeling generous and want to give a surprise gift, wait until immediately after sex, then present the gift. Relentlessly condition her to expect money and gifts in exchange for sex, and only in exchange for sex.

6. Never give money or equivalents (gifts, vacations, restaurant meals, etc) without first receiving sex. Don't ask for free samples of a woman's body, don't give free samples of your money and what it can buy. Trivial payment for coffee at first meeting is okay. You can also pay round-trip transportation and compensation for time if a woman meets for coffee, made no misrepresentations in her online profile, and otherwise behaves honestly. At first visit to your apartment, counted money should remain on the table until after sex, in case of last minute change of mind.

7. To minimize problems with last minute change of mind, engage in some sort of intimate touching at coffee meeting. For example, ask woman to put her arm on the table. Then put your hand on her wrist and let it relax, so she feels the full weight and warmth, then just keep it there without saying anything for several minutes. When she pulls away, tell her she can leave now, but you want to stay and finish your coffee. If she asks what went wrong, then interrogate her calmly but persistently as to why she pulled away: "You don't like me touching you? But you pulled away, there must be a reason. You don't know the reason? Why did you put your arm on the table when I initially asked you to do so?" If she rebels in any way during the interrogation, good riddance, she'll just be trouble later. Otherwise, ask her to put her arm back on the table, put your hand back on her wrist, wait silently again for several minute, then invite her to your apartment.

8. Inability to put her smartphone away during the coffee meeting should be a deal killer. Unlike with the hand on her wrist compliance test, no reason to give second chances where smartphone etiquette is concerned. Save your money and give it to a more deserving girl.

9. Don't promise anything you cannot deliver on. Fulfill all promises, including promised threats. In general, under promise and over deliver.

10. Don't expect monogamy from Ukrainian women, especially if you are much older than her, or much less handsome than she is beautiful.

[PhotoSlider]

Single mothers another possibility, but quality civilian single mothers tend to go very slowly and foreign men are often short on time. Single mothers also often develop strongly independent and self-sufficient personality.At least 3 single Ukrainian mothers I met were quick on the draw, and driving hard towards marriage, trying to shape up my thoughts. All three were Semi-Pro. One pretended she got pregnant with my child. Another one was too controlling. In general single ladies are much more fun, they have significantly less psychological trauma.

The fourth one was indeed very self-sufficient, a true Goddess in bed, and indeed independent in our relationship. I prize encounters with her very highly, but Kozerog is correct. Difficult relationship.


Consider annuitizing wealth, so as to convert into stream of income that stops upon your death, so that no one (besides insurance company) has incentive to see you die prematurely.There was a story here about the Ukrainian girl that married an UK guy, arranged for a lethal traffic accident (he was a pedestrian, smashed by the truck by her accomplice), and took possession of his wealth, with his relatives trying in vain to resist via legal means. There were no action taken against her in Ukraine, most likely a collusion with Ukrainian criminal system.

I believe Fifino68 asks for having a good time with Ukrainian girls, not to marry them. Regardless, bride agencies are scam.


4.Never take a Ukrainian woman out of Ukraine permanently (short trips are fine).Minor corrections. Do not take Ukrainian woman out of Ukraine even for short trips, unless you know her well enough. Even then, she may have a change of mind, while you are at her mercy in non-mongering destination. Happened before. If that's the case during your trip, just put her on the plane, and cut your losses. That is also why KEC asks for 20-50% prepay. No effing way! You already are paying for the ticket and hotel.

More than once the mild threat of kicking the cold moody princess out, turned her into a hot seductress right away.


Men need to move to Ukraine if they want to ongoing access to the woman's body.Plural. Women, not woman. Move to Ukraine, if you want to have an ongoing access to women bodies. But that's my preference. To each is own.


6....Don't ask for free samples of a woman's body...Why not? For moral reasons?

I guess you are right again. There is no free lunch after all.


7....Otherwise, ask her to put her arm back on the table, put your hand back on her wrist, wait silently again for several minute, then invite her to your apartment.That is what I do indirectly during my casting. With hourly girls it is trickier, and I have to rely on their smiles, body language, intonation and perceived willingness. But sometimes shy girls turn into hot ones in the bedroom.

With higher level agencies I do not pay right away, and if, before we go to bed, the girl doesn't respond to my kisses within the first 10-15 minutes, I explain that there is an exit door in my apartment.

Kozerog's approach is much better for casting the mamba-like girls before letting them into your apartment.


8. Inability to put her smartphone away during the coffee meeting should be a deal killer. Unlike with the hand on her wrist compliance test, no reason to give second chances where smartphone etiquette is concerned. Save your money and give it to a more deserving girl.That's tough but true.

I go berserk when agency calls before my time runs out. However, few times it was rather cute. Taking the girl doggy style, and I know that our time is over, because agency already called, and I didn't extend, despite both of us enjoying each other big time. And, while waiting for the car to arrive, we decided to go for another round. So again, I am taking her doggy style, and she answers the phone, talking to dispatcher in a shaky stuttering voice:

- I am Rea. Dy!

- Is the car here?

- I am coming!

Those are the moments that I cherish.

Otherwise agree, no phone. My tablet is used for entertainment. Then again, asked one girl:

- Do you want any music?

- **I** am The Music!

And she was.


10. Don't expect monogamy from Ukrainian women, especially if you are much older than her, or much less handsome than she is beautiful.Indeed! It is a hierarchical priority system. Girls run their own harem of milked males, their source of income. If a certain male is promising to be valuable, they may run a monogamy show just for him. But make no mistake. It is all about maximizing potential and real revenue, while multitasking.

[Fifino68]

Thanks guys for the replies and many thanks to Kotzerog for the detailed explanation.

[Riina]

Some advice for guys looking for LTRs:.Thank you for the post, very useful, Just my opinion, it's so much better to have the mentality that all relationships with Ukrainians are financial. Love is great, but expect shattered dreams if that's your guide.

[PhotoSlider]

In general single ladies are much more fun, they have significantly less psychological trauma.Sorry about mistake. I meant to say this:

- Ukrainian ladies are much more fun than single moms, because they experienced less abuse in their personal relationships.

Kozerog's Essay on LTR is great. Couple dozen more, and he has enough material to publish a solid book.

[TinyHippo]

Some advice for guys looking for LTRs:

1. Minimize intermediaries, other than those that involve minimal cost (free or cheap online dating apps) or where intermediary truly wants you to succeed and be happy (your own grandmother as matchmaker, for examine). Marriage agencies are worse than useless. Quality Ukrainian women have no need to use marriage agencies to find boyfriends / husbands, so women at these agencies are either junk women (bad looking and / or bad personalities) or scammers (or maybe professional working girls if you're lucky).

2. Many working girls, especially those over age 25 or so, would prefer to have one or a small number of quality sponsors versus a parade of one-time clients. Escorts who want to become mistresses are perfect for foreign men seeking LTRs. Much better, IMO, than leftover women (women over age 25 who never worked as an escort but also never got married, either due to personality problems or not physically attractive). Single mothers another possibility, but quality civilian single mothers tend to go very slowly and foreign men are often short on time. Single mothers also often develop strongly independent and self-sufficient personality. Good character qualities in a business associate, not so good in a lover..You definition of mongering must be much different than mine. Your tactics to me are a sure way to make a girl feel like a hooker. As an older man, you are supposed to be interesting and to be the commanding one (like deciding where to eat and where to go for fun). While I do pay for sex with girls, I have also dated a lot of Ukrainian / Slavic girls 100% not because of gifts or money. Some girls are after a free dinner or an iPhone, but there are plenty of girls looking for some fun or love with a foreigner.

[Kozerog]

At least 3 single Ukrainian mothers I met were quick on the draw, and driving hard towards marriage, trying to shape up my thoughts. All three were Semi-Pro.I thought about this some more. Problem is with me. For some reason, I was probably focusing on very conservative women when I went after civilians.

Here's another suggestion for guys seeking LTRs. In talking about money, remember that young women often can't do math in their head. So be sure to do the multiplication for her. In my case, assuming 1000 uah / hour and 4 hours per meeting and 2 meetings per week and 13 weeks, that's potential of 104,000 uah to be my summer girlfriend. Sounds much more enticing than 1000. Per my rule not to make false promises, I would not mention possible end of summer bonus (30% typically), and I would be very careful to point out, and get the girl to echo back, that there will not be more than 1 meeting of things don't work out.

Here's a suggestion for meeting quality middle class single mothers. Get seats in the cheap upper rows of the ballet or children's dance theatre or similar. Or pretend you need a replacement buttons for your shirt and go to a fabric store. If a woman accompanied by young daughter holds your eye contact, she is almost surely single or separated. Very easy to strike up a conversation using the daughter as topic: "Is the young beauty is planning to be a ballerina herself when she grows up? What is her name? She's as pretty as her mother! Etc etc" Reason for picking the cheap seats is that single mothers typically have tight budgets, unless they are part of an oligarch clan, in which case probably not available to foreigners. Main problem with this suggestion is you probably need intermediate level Russian (or Ukrainian). I'm also assuming the man would prefer a single mother with daughters only versus sons.


Just my opinion, it's so much better to have the mentality that all relationships with Ukrainians are financial. Love is great, but expect shattered dreams if that's your guide.Yes, that's why I advise no free samples of the woman's body, even if she offers. Better to get things on a proper footing from the start. If you promise to pay X money under certain conditions, and your proposal is attractive to the woman, the pressure is now on her to make the deal go through. Just avoid over promising. That is, make sure X is sustainable if you want an LTR.

[Kozerog]

Your tactics to me are a sure way to make a girl feel like a hooker. As an older man, you are supposed to be interesting and to be the commanding one (like deciding where to eat and where to go for fun). I am deciding where to go for fun: namely, into bed for a few hours and then she leaves. As to being interesting, I enjoy my own company as long as I get to be myself. But being myself probably makes me boring to women of all ages. So that's where money comes into play. Women in Ukraine are usually very interested in money, and by extension, in men offering money or money equivalents (gifts, vacations, restaurant meals, etc). By offering money, I get to act like my natural boring self, but women nevertheless find me interesting.

It's possible to use euphemisms to describe exchanging sex for money ("I've always depended upon the kindness of strangers") but I think honesty is best. If the girl can't tolerate the feeling of being a mistress (Russian soderzhanka), best we part ways immediately and avoid wasting each other's time.

[Sprusic2019]

Hi guys,

I've been following this forum for a while but never published anything. Now I guess it's the right time because I'm down with flue and have nothing else to do but to make few comments that might be useful specifically for newbies visiting Kiev and hunting for local girls.

I've been working in Kiev frequently for the past 10 years. I'm actually in IT business and we have a team of off-shore developers doing some projects for us here. So I have to spend in Kiev around 2 months per year in average. I speak fluent Russian (actually I was born in Moscow but moved to USA at the very young age) . I wouldn't classify myself as an expert on Kiev mongering seen but obviously spending so much time here in Ukraine, I have accumulated 100+ contacts for local hotties. That's a rotating number as the old contacts go away and new one comes in. And its really exciting movement if you have the right amount of cash $$ LOL. Anyways – here is my piece of advice for newcomers which may reflect few fundamental questions being raised on this forum.

Is Kiev still good place for mongering?

In my opinion Kiev (and Ukraine in general) is highly overrated by media and word of mouth. It used to be like heaven for sex tourists. But not any more from 1990 thru 2005 Kiev was flooded with 7-10 grade girls for a very low price. And the primary reasons for this: was the collapse of Soviet Union and adjustment period to the western standards of life. Girls were very poor back than and they were desperately looking for cash. Many of them were hoping to find a rich husband or sugar-daddy abroad to leave Ukraine for better life. And that's why so mail-order brides magazines and on-line catalogs were so popular at that time (now it's pure scam) . Boarders were opened at that time but it was still was very hard to leave Ukraine due to logistical, economic and mental reasons so most of the girls had accumulated in Kiev, Odessa (summer-time) and few other big cities. So the average price for model-type girl (type 10) was around $70-100 per hour (Now it's $300 and above. If you get any). Things started going downhill around mid. 2000 x. Kiev had flooded with sex tourists from different countries and yet at the same time more and more hot chicks permanently left P4P market by moving out of Ukraine or sticking with local rich guys or sugar daddies (don't underestimate income of some local dudes), and those who preferred freedom to continue P4 P business keep doing it somewhere else. And it make sense bc why a 9-10 looking girl should waist her pussy in Kiev for 2000 UAH / HR if she can do the same in Paris for 300 EUR / HR or in New York for 600 USD / HR? Can't really blame them. LOL Most popular destinations for these chicks; - France, Italy, UK, UAE, USA and recently. China. So, it's not really poverty but the liberalization of mentality of Russian / Ukrainian women and freedom of travel has damaged the whole picture of Kiev (Moscow too) as primary mongering destinations. And the last big hit was the closure of River Palace back in 2010. I think few old-timers on this forum exactly know what I'm talking about. So, demand has exceeded supply. And the inventory of high-quality working women has been going down dramatically year after year. I think I'the better split this into multiple posts. Cause it's too much info for a single thread.

[Sprusic2019]

Visiting Kiev – Planning your trip.

Anyways. With all being said earlier. Same question pops up. Is Kiev still good place for mongering? Yes indeed; - You still can f*ck local girls almost 50% cheaper than in Western Europe or USA. Also – in Kiev (if you get lucky) you may come across some "out of the box" talents which highly unlikely to meet anywhere else. In any case I'the suggest you read few paragraphs below that might help you to make the most of your trip.

1. Budget:

"What you pay is what you get" . That's been written on the stone and everyone knows this expression. No difference in Kiev. Obviously, the main objective for you is to f*ck a beauty queen for 1000 UAH. Well – it's not going to happen. And don't even hope that I'm joking. Don't fall for fake profiles on the web advertising at 800-1500 UAH with model type girl. These prices are actually for massage or very basic services with some ugly to average looking chicks. And of cause you're not traveling significant number of miles just to end up with something like this. Kiev Girls are not stupid. They're very smart and they know exactly market value for their time and services. So be prepared to spend 100 $ - 150 $ for 6/7 looking girl 200-250 $ for 8/9 (if you get lucky) and $300+ for 10 (if you get any). Different guys have different taste and 10 for one guy could be 6 for another. But the bottom line is that in order to succeed you have to be very realistic in terms of prices. So, I wouldn't bother to come to Kiev for 1 week without $2000 in my pocket just to be able to fully enjoy my trip.

2. Duration of your trip:

Kiev is a long-term game and 50% of your mongering success relies on your prior's trips "contact list" For those who visits Kiev for the first time – make every effort to create this "contact list" and for those who has traveled to Kiev before – make every effort to contribute to "contact list" so you can use it for the next trip. (instead of calling 911). If you're visiting Kiev for less than 1 week than to make the most out of it I'the suggest you stick with GIA, RIO and apartment girls. Don't try to play long-term games (Mamba, Tinder, Sponsor Games, Night-Clubs etc.) in a short period of time. This most likely will lead you to pure disappointment.

3. Expectations:

That's already been covered in paragraph 1. Keep your expectations low. You will not f*ck a model-type girl for 1000 UAH even though you're young and extremely good looking – I've met many guys who's been very disappointed with the looks and services of the girls they've got from mamba or strip clubs or underground escort agencies due to very high expectations. Etc. So, the lower your expectations are – the more successful will be your outcome of your trip.

4. Preparation:

"You cannot get an apple without climbing a tree" – Do your homework in advance. If you stick with Mamba than you should get VIP access to be able to use advanced search. Look only for profiles with "sponsor" or "sex" listed. Create a list of available girls (recently active) Use VPN to change your location to "Kiev" (you need to make them believe you're in Kiev) than contact all profiles at once and see what you get back. Keep in mind that most of the "sponsor / sex" profiles posted by underground pimps, so you'll get the picture. There used to be hundreds of semi-pros and independent girls on Mamba. Well, not any more. You also need to google pictures of all potential candidates bc 90% are fakes. I'the rather use Yandex for this. For image search in Russia and Ukraine it's working much better than google. Stay away from none P4P profiles (girls looking for marriage, friendship etc.) - it's a complete waste of time.

For underground pimps and operators (you get their numbers from sex-portals like: kievlady eurogirls etc) you should consider only those that use Viber / WhatsApp. Than you should contact them upfront pretending you're in Kiev. They'll scan you (where you stay? What country are from? And blah blah. Than they send you pictures for escort girls they have so you can clearly evaluate your options before you've actually booked your apartment and plane tickets to Kiev. In other words: Whatever you can do from home – should be done before you landed. You'll save yourself tones of valuable time. And sometime time is more important than $$.

5. Attitude.

You should treat girls with respect. Regardless if you like them or not. Don't act like a jerk no matter how drunk you're. For the first time you're meeting with a girl – treat it as business transaction. Keep in mind that: All girls you'll meet are more interested in sucking your pockets than your dick (regardless pro or semi-pro) bc for you "sex" is a pleasure and for her it's a job. If you really like a girl than give her some tips and there is a good chance, she'll leave you her contact info for future communication. There are lots of scam girls and agencies out there and you should learn how to deal with them. It's just too bad there is no reliable escort review board for Kiev (like ***). There is one local board Kiev-x but it's only limited for Russian speaking audience. (I'll get more into this). So, be ready for scamming – specifically by girls in night clubs (they'll be trying getting you into "Romantic" mood for bottle of Champagne and leaving you with $300 bill at the end of the party).

Also, underground pimps will send you bunch of fake girls if you do not request photo upfront. This happens all the time and don't go crazy about it. Add some humor to this just tell the girl "Honey – you look great but I expected to see a different girl" if she insists on money for Taxi than pull $100 bill out of pocket and tell her "I would love to give you some cash for taxi but I don't have any small change". This will be a good lesson for the girl and her pimp so the next time they'the be careful playing be&S.

6. Accommodations:

If you are an English-speaking traveler than you should not be staying in hotels. There are many great apartments in Kiev with English-speaking hosts for a reasonable price. Best place to find apartments: airbnb and the local resource dobovo. You can pick up any apartment you want but always check for reviews. (you don't have to pay service fee). There are many hotels in Kiev but very few are merged to Western standards and those are very expensive like Hyatt or Premier Palace. When it comes to hotel vs. Apartment – Privacy is the key.

So that's about it. Or just a tip of the iceberg. In any case I'll publish more stuff if you're interested. Chao.

[Dunba1679]

Gents,

I have a question regarding KEC / GIA.

When I was talking to the KEC operators I indicated that I was a old customer of GIA. They would either deny connection with GIA or say no idea what GIA is. KEC and GIA have pretty much the same girls and their websites are very similar. I wonder if they are denying that for legal reasons or are they actually different?

Which brings to my question: is KEC as reliable as GIA? I use KEC / GIA for multiple day bookings and they require deposits. I am not 100% sure if it is safe anymore.

P.S. Whether it is wise to use KEC / GIA for multiple day bookings is another discussion.

[Riina]

- Ukrainian ladies are much more fun than single moms, because they experienced less abuse in their personal relationships.It's interesting how quick Ukrainian girls are to label single moms as [Deleted by Admin]. You would think they would sympathize with their situation, but it's not like that.

[Riina]

You definition of mongering must be much different than mine. Your tactics to me are a sure way to make a girl feel like a hooker. As an older man, you are supposed to be interesting and to be the commanding one (like deciding where to eat and where to go for fun). While I do pay for sex with girls, I have also dated a lot of Ukrainian / Slavic girls 100% not because of gifts or money. Some girls are after a free dinner or an iPhone, but there are plenty of girls looking for some fun or love with a foreigner.I never heard of a Ukrainian girl say she was looking for an interesting man. My experience is they want to find a partner that can give them financial security first, but that's not an option for most girls, so many will just say they are looking for someone beautiful. There's a shame factor that comes into play when an older foreigner dates a younger girl that's quickly mitigated if it means a bettering of lifestyle.

[DramaFree11]

Visiting Kiev Planning your trip.

Anyways. With all being said earlier. Same question pops up. Is Kiev still good place for mongering? Yes indeed; - You still can f*ck local girls almost 50% cheaper than in Western Europe or USA. Also in Kiev (if you get lucky) you may come across some "out of the box" talents which highly unlikely to meet anywhere else. In any case I'the suggest you read few paragraphs below that might help you to make the most of your trip.

1. Budget:

"What you pay is what you get" . That's been written on the stone and everyone knows this expression. No difference in Kiev. Obviously, the main objective for you is to f*ck a beauty queen for 1000 UAH. Well it's not going to happen. And don't even hope that I'm joking. Don't fall for fake profiles on the web advertising at 800-1500 UAH with model type girl..Very good report, disagrees with the part about girls above 7's. Prices are correct, but accessibility is questionable especially for Newbies. You live there as I did, as did I and my friends did the same.

None of my friends had access to those type of girls either and this was 3 years ago, they just simply were not available, like 5 years ago. I can only imagine how bad it is now. Most of my friends had major game, time and big bankroll. They were able to pull 7's above in the past on the streets and clubs, but this is just not the case now. We all had apartments, gym memberships and access to VIP Clubs. I see more 8's and above in Moscow on a Friday then I would see in months in Kiev, sorry this is the truth.

5/6's all day long in Kiev, anything above that very difficult maybe even impossible without major local connections, job and the language, even then unlikely.

[DramaFree11]

Gents,

I have a question regarding KEC / GIA.

When I was talking to the KEC operators I indicated that I was a old customer of GIA. They would either deny connection with GIA or say no idea what GIA is. KEC and GIA have pretty much the same girls and their websites are very similar. I wonder if they are denying that for legal reasons or are they actually different?

Which brings to my question: is KEC as reliable as GIA? I use KEC / GIA for multiple day bookings and they require deposits. I am not 100% sure if it is safe anymore.

P.S. Whether it is wise to use KEC / GIA for multiple day bookings is another discussion.Both are way too much money for Kiev. Who cares if they are reliable or not, in my opinion major Rip Off.

[PhotoSlider]

It's interesting how quick Ukrainian girls are to label single moms as derogatory term. You would think they would sympathize with their situation, but it's not like that.Ukrainian girls are quick to badmouth and belittle any competition. Anything goes! Accusing the alternative provider at the same agency of being a drugs junkie is not the worst I have heard.

[PhotoSlider]

Here's a suggestion for meeting quality middle class single mothers. Get seats in the cheap upper rows of the ballet or children's dance theatre or similar. Or pretend you need a replacement buttons for your shirt and go to a fabric store. If a woman accompanied by young daughter holds your eye contact, she is almost surely single or separated. Very easy to strike up a conversation using the daughter as topic: "Is the young beauty is planning to be a ballerina herself when she grows up? What is her name? She's as pretty as her mother! Etc etc" Reason for picking the cheap seats is that single mothers typically have tight budgets, unless they are part of an oligarch clan, in which case probably not available to foreigners.1. Six years ago, when tickets to Kiev ballet performances were much cheaper, my seat was in the 3rd row of paterre, almost behind the orchestra conductor. It was one of those rare cases when I didn't have a female escort, went with my brother instead.

During the first intermission I went for a drink, and upon returning noticed that to the left of me there were two young ladies, showing obvious signs of attention, to which apparently I didn't react before the intermission. So, while I was away, they swapped, sort of chess castling maybe thinking that I would like the other one better, and will make the move.

Lady sitting to the right of my brother didn't waste her time, and they exchanged phone numbers, went for another performance next day, and still talking to each other to this day.

Not sure if any of this parterre pick up business continues today.

2. One more trick happened this October. I was with a single mom and her child, watching ballet in the front row of the mezzanine. Behind us there was a classy looking businessman from New York, and his Ukrainian escort. She was in her early 30's, with all the obvious attributes. Latest iPhone, high heels, puffy lips, and rather revealing dress. I was taking pictures and videos of outstanding performance on stage. And then I've heard her voice:

- I'm sorry, you have better seats, do you mind sharing your videos?

I automatically gave my phone, asking to type in her phone number. She asked, in a fake polite manner, fishing for information:

- Would your wife object?

I didn't explain that she is not my wife, as this was none of anybody's business. In fact, single mom had a wealthy enough sponsor for as many years, as we knew each other. She had his supped up SUV, that she drove me in. One of those Kiev triangles.

Anyway. I almost asked, tongue in cheek:

- Would your husband object?

So we exchanged. She contacted me few days later again. I decided not to, as she seemed too calculating.

Single mom was jealous though. Interrogating if I followed up. And that is how we roll. I know she has a sponsor. She knows that I know. She goes out with me, and insists that I should be faithful to her.

Experienced same in Latin America.

Who needs Theater! Kiev is Soap Opera thriller and more.

[PhotoSlider]

Gents,

I have a question regarding KEC / GIA.

When I was talking to the KEC operators I indicated that I was a old customer of GIA. They would either deny connection with GIA or say no idea what GIA is. KEC and GIA have pretty much the same girls and their websites are very similar. I wonder if they are denying that for legal reasons or are they actually different?

Which brings to my question: is KEC as reliable as GIA? I use KEC / GIA for multiple day bookings and they require deposits. I am not 100% sure if it is safe anymore.

P.S. Whether it is wise to use KEC / GIA for multiple day bookings is another discussion.1. KEC doesn't want to give you discount.

2. GIA was acceptable. I didn't interact with KEC. Indirect indications are that it is not as reliable. Fake feedback about the girls, that is loosely disguised by the management as coming from the real customers. Evasive explanation of services. Higher prices.

Would anybody who used them recently care to comment?

[PhotoSlider]

Anyways. With all being said earlier. Same question pops up. Is Kiev still good place for mongering? Yes indeed;End of story.

I would agree with no less than 75% of Sprusic's observations.

[PhotoSlider]

By offering money, I get to act like my natural boring self, but women nevertheless find me interesting.Offering money helps Ukrainian women big time with finding you interesting.

Please do not consider this as an attempt at flattering- you are sincere, intelligent, and treat those few ladies, that comply with your requirements, in a respectful manner. They know what to expect. Win-Win.

[PhotoSlider]

You definition of mongering must be much different than mine. Your tactics to me are a sure way to make a girl feel like a hooker. As an older man, you are supposed to be interesting and to be the commanding one (like deciding where to eat and where to go for fun). While I do pay for sex with girls, I have also dated a lot of Ukrainian / Slavic girls 100% not because of gifts or money. Some girls are after a free dinner or an iPhone, but there are plenty of girls looking for some fun or love with a foreigner.Not necessarily a foreigner. As long as you can provide fun, love, good sex and money- many Ukrainian girls do not care much where you are from.

Difference between local and foreigner is that foreigner will leave and most likely will not provide any of the above in sufficient quantity.

Admiration towards the foreigner may fade away quickly, unless the girl is bored and needs attention. Then ask yourself if you want to be her entertainer via one of messaging platforms.

If the relationship doesn't involve money, then what is the underlying reason?

She may go for it, if she is independent enough financially.

I have at least two LTRs which are not based on money. They did start with money, and then transformed into friendship with benefits. Occasionally one of these two semi-automatically tries to extort gifts and money, and the most I gave her in the last 8 weeks in Kiev was breakfast at Avalon and 200 UAH for her cab ride after having sex. She surely expected more. She wants to meet when I am in Kiev in May-June of this year.

[Sprusic2019]

Very good report, disagrees with the part about girls above 7's. Prices are correct, but accessibility is questionable especially for Newbies. You live there as I did, as did I and my friends did the same.

None of my friends had access to those type of girls either and this was 3 years ago, they just simply were not available, like 5 years ago. I can only imagine how bad it is now. Most of my friends had major game, time and big bankroll. They were able to pull 7's above in the past on the streets and clubs, but this is just not the case now. We all had apartments, gym memberships and access to VIP Clubs. I see more 8's and above in Moscow on a Friday then I would see in months in Kiev, sorry this is the truth.

5/6's all day long in Kiev, anything above that very difficult maybe even impossible without major local connections, job and the language, even then unlikely.Thanks for your comments; and I agree with you 100% . Being working in Kiev for a long time and speaking fluent Russian I have developed lots of reliable connections with local pimps and modeling agencies and this gives me full backdoor access to P4P database. It's just sad to see how the inventory of good looking girls with flexible services is melting down year after year. Best looking girls are running out of Kiev and Ukraine in general. And actually you're right.

About Moscow. I was there just few months ago and had a very good time. But the prices for hot chicks almost the same as in Europe starting: $300 . So if you're planning to visit Moscow again than check out.

Intimcity and russdosug. It's a bit cheaper option for mongers and locals. Also it's worth to visit few strip clubs: Aurora / Angels / Penthouse (same network) - it's much better than RIO but be prepare to spend $500 minimum.

Cheers.

[Kozerog]

So be prepared to spend 100 $ - 150 $ for 6/7 looking girl 200-250 $ for 8/9 (if you get lucky) and $300+ for 10 (if you get any). Different guys have different taste and 10 for one guy could be 6 for another. But the bottom line is that in order to succeed you have to be very realistic in terms of prices.Most of Sprusic2019's report I agree with, but the above is misleading.

First, what is the point of an objective rating scale that is not objective? I use a subjective scale for my own process, precisely because ultimately what I like is what matters if the girl is intended for me, not what other guys like. But I understand the value of an objective scale so as to communicate with other men. However objective means just that. 10 means possible Playboy centerfold or similar. 6 means no way she'd be Playboy centerfold. No such thing as objectively 10 and 6 at the same time.

There's also the issue of unspecified nonlinearity in these rating scales. Some even say there are no 10's, that's just an ideal. Linear percentile scale is better because everyone knows that there are exactly 10% of 22 year old girls in the top 10%, etc.

Anyway, where did the fabled 10's of the 1990's come from originally? Some from Kyiv (Kiev back then), many more from small towns. Has the overall gene pool of Ukraine degenerated such that mothers no longer give birth to 10's in these small towns? Because otherwise, there will continue to be plenty of 10's (and 9's and 8's) migrating to Kyiv so as to market their beauty. They don't immediately go to Moscow or Paris the day they turn 18.

Probable preference order for girls who would even consider foreigners: 1) marriage to rich handsome local their own age, with mutual love; 2) marriage to handsome local their own age who has good enough income, with mutual love; 3) marriage to rich old local; 4) sponsored in Kyiv by rich locals or visiting foreigners; 5) moving to Moscow or Paris for sponsoring; 6) day job, with occasional semi-pro P4 P with face control (she chooses clients); 7) full-time P4 P at Kiev escort club and hidden agencies, without face control.

I didn't cover all possibilities and we can argue about preference ordering, but important conclusion is that when you go hard P4 P, meaning one-time meeting with no face control and no emotional connection, you are only getting access to a very small number of beautiful girls who are psychologically suited to such hard P4 P, and to rejects who couldn't get anything better. If you want better quality girls, you need to move up to long-term sponsor rather than one-time P4 P client.

If you arrange your sponsoring so it does not conflict with marriage to local non-rich guy, then you get access to even more girls. This would normally work as follows. You meet girl when she is going through her wild phase at university or shortly after, and establish sponsor arrangement where you meet her a few times a week in the afternoon at your apartment, but are never seen with her in public. Around age 25, she marries a local who isn't rich and continues seeing you on the side. She works some sort of commissioned sales job, which explains her big income and why she is frequently out of the office where she supposedly works. This is more or less what I proposed to my jewel, assuming she ever marries.

Some people underestimate wealth of local men, others like Sprusic2019 overestimate. There is not a huge pool of local men who have $1000/ month (28000 uah) extra disposable income to support a mistress. So if you can come up with that kind of money, you can compete with everyone except locals who are also offering marriage. I paid my jewel about $5000 last summer and might go up to $6000 this summer. $2000/ month is well above the going rate for sponsoring 8's and 9's (objectively, my jewel is 8 or 9), but if course I'm only paying for 3 months. $1000/ month for 10 meetings translates to $100/ meeting (2800 uah). So that's what the local rich are paying for their 8s and 9s, not $200+. Assuming meetings of 3 hours each (probably more than 3 hours of they go out to dinner), local sponsors are paying under 1000 uah / hour for 8s and 9s (I'm ignoring 10s to avid avoid a flame war regarding whether 10s even exist).

IF YOU WANT TOP QUALITY AT MODERATE PRICE, GO FOR LONG-TERM SPONSORING, NOT ONE-SHOT P4 P.


So, I wouldn't bother to come to Kiev for 1 week without $2000 in my pocket just to be able to fully enjoy my trip.I wouldn't bother to come to Kyiv for 1 week regardless of bankroll. If you have a big bankroll, use it to buy more time off from work.

[PhotoSlider]

First, what is the point of an objective rating scale that is not objective? I use a subjective scale for my own process, precisely because ultimately what I like is what matters if the girl is intended for me, not what other guys like. But I understand the value of an objective scale so as to communicate with other men. However objective means just that. 10 means possible Playboy centerfold or similar. 6 means no way she'd be Playboy centerfold. No such thing as objectively 10 and 6 at the same time.

There's also the issue of unspecified nonlinearity in these rating scales. Some even say there are no 10's, that's just an ideal. Linear percentile scale is better because everyone knows that there are exactly 10% of 22 year old girls in the top 10%, etc.

Anyway, where did the fabled 10's of the 1990's come from originally? Some from Kyiv (Kiev back then), many more from small towns. Has the overall gene pool of Ukraine degenerated such that mothers no longer give birth to 10's in these small towns? Because otherwise, there will continue to be plenty of 10's (and 9's and 8's) migrating to Kyiv so as to market their beauty. They don't immediately go to Moscow or Paris the day they turn 18.Mathematical statistics in the hands of businessman turns potential flame war into a civilized discussion.

I tried once to introduce the multidimensional assessment for the ladies I met. Did it strictly for myself, and got completely lost, arguing with no one else except myself. Certain metrics are rather subjective. But let's attempt for couple minutes, even though it's an exercise in futility.

Looks and Performance are two high-level umbrella-like over-encompassing criteria.

Looks are the most subjective. For example I liked 1 m46 cm folk dance girl just fine, because she was very flexible, kissed like a fairy, and seemed to have multiple orgasms in the most sincere manner. She was young, great skin, perfect smile, gorgeous eyes. And certainly not a playboy material, heck no! And I don't want her to be. She'd be dismissed as 3 or 4 by model seeking vigilantes.

I also like those 10-15 cm taller than me. Measured with or without the high heels, doesn't matter.

My friend likes size 5 boobs, I prefer no larger than 3. Beautiful nipples and areolas mean so much more to me.

Now comes even more subjective. Performance. Try rating kisses, separate from CBJ, BBBJ, DATY, Greek and so on. Jymondor did rate in the most respectful way. How can these be combined into a composite metric? Weight coefficients? 5 or even 7 dimensional surface with extremums?

The rest has been argued about here ad nauseam, and I agree that even while slightly drunk, it is difficult to have satisfying sex with an ugly girl. At the same time that beautifully looking 9 (that everybody on this Forum may have agreed, that she is 9 based on her naked pictures with boobs, surgically enhanced Brazilian bootie, and all), even when she looks perfect without clothes, has a potential to quickly turns into a harpy in bed. What is her rating then?

When I say some lady is incomparable, it is to share my recent state of happiness. It is not to get a confirmation, or approval, not to assert or elevate myself above others. This is not a competition. Not for me. And I am totally content while others dismiss my objects of passion and desire.

Statistical approach introduced by Kozerog, and certain gentlemen before him, is based on percentiles. Agree to forget 10's as never achievable ideal, and let's say that if 80% of male and female population considers a certain girl better than lower 80% of Ukrainian 22 years old, than she is at least 9.

Kozerog is 100% on, -new and most beautiful candidates are born and properly raised all over Ukraine every day. At the current birth rate 50 babies are born every hour. 25 girls. 2 of them are 9 or 10. That is 500 new girls every year that are 9 and above. Kiev is at least 3 million, that is about 5% of Ukrainian population, residing in the country. At least 25 new 9-10 girls every year. Seems rather low. Perhaps I miscalculated somewhere, didn't account for incoming students not born in Kiev. Also 3 million does not count daily commuters, 2007 estimated total for Kiev was 3. 7 millions with commuters. Could be 5 million today, not sure. There is at least half a million refugees from Crimea and East Ukraine, many coming to Kiev.

Now back to our 9+18-26 years old makes up 10% of Ukrainian population. 2018 data shows 53% of country population are females. In Kiev it is higher due to students, office and service industry workers, but we'll keep them at 50%.

My rough calculations show that 37 K of Kiev population are 18-26 years old females that are no less than 9 by Kiev standards. And to my tastes those standards are high enough to justify my annual travels. Let's say half of those girls, 20 K, leverage visa-free option to fuck in confines of Italian Hilton's and Dubai establishments.

How many have reliable sponsors and husbands? Local or foreign, doesn't matter anymore. 5 K? 10 K? I do see them checking into fitness and spa at Avalon. They are surely not interested in me, and my ego is not hurt. Because at least 7 K are available and actively hunting, it is visible while walking around, riding subway, going to theater.

Even without all the above calculations I see hundreds of 9+ every day, and many of them are approachable. No more than 9 out of 10 reject my advances. It is arguable that more beautiful girls reject quicker. There's an opinion that too many males are afraid to talk to them, and they crave for attention. Therefore it is not a surprise that I get phone numbers of more than a few new hot girls daily. With already established contacts it is more than enough for me.

I cannot do the same in New York, or Madrid, or Zurich, or London, because of my age and society being against it. I can in Kiev.

Kiev changes, so do we. Some of us get older, and lets be honest, many of us become less attractive. Consequently some loose faith in Ukrainian women and Kiev in general. Women easily sense it, and they want to be worshiped, to increase chances for more reliable transformation of our funds into their apartment rent payments, Michael Kors purses, and so on.


I wouldn't bother to come to Kyiv for 1 week regardless of bankroll. If you have a big bankroll, use it to buy more time off from work.I am not yet at 90 days in Kiev every year, but 3 weeks seems like a minimum nowadays. 5 weeks shows distinct dividends. 8 weeks is a blessing, and made my life in Kev relaxed and happy.

Moving in permanently, with an easy way out, on as needed basis, is the ultimate objective, and not only because of classy ladies. As has been mentioned, business opportunities are still enormous.

1 week in Kiev is a substantial gamble for any newbie.

[Kozerog]

Very good report, disagrees with the part about girls above 7's. Prices are correct, but accessibility is questionable especially for Newbies. You live there as I did, as did I and my friends did the same.

None of my friends had access to those type of girls either and this was 3 years ago, they just simply were not available, like 5 years ago. I can only imagine how bad it is now. Most of my friends had major game, time and big bankroll. They were able to pull 7's above in the past on the streets and clubs, but this is just not the case now. We all had apartments, gym memberships and access to VIP Clubs. I see more 8's and above in Moscow on a Friday then I would see in months in Kiev, sorry this is the truth.

5/6's all day long in Kiev, anything above that very difficult maybe even impossible without major local connections, job and the language, even then unlikely.As usual, truth but not the whole truth in what DramaFree11 writes: only the gloomy side of the story. Two perfect 10's with whom I interacted in a professional basis in Kyiv in 2017:

One was an AirBnb hostess. She looked like a 10 in her AirBnb profile (not why I picked the apartment, but hard not to be fascinated by the photo), looked even better in person, plus very intelligent and friendly. Worked as a secretary with the Orthodox church. Always accompanied by her fiance, a tall, handsome, assertive and very intelligent graduate student at the university. They are probably married now, poor but happy. None of us here would ever have had a chance with this girl.

Another was a clerk at the Autolux ticket counter at Vydubychi station. She no doubt could sense my admiration for her beauty, though I tried to conceal my feelings, and appeared annoyed when she detected my foreign accent: "Another sex tourist, probably thinking why a beauty like me is working at such a menial job, hope he doesn't say that. " She answered me in fluent English and we performed the ticket transaction as fast as possible. She was wearing a wedding ring. Age maybe 30, but the type of lean, fine-featured beauty that ages very well, like Norwegians. I have no idea who she was married to. It would be horribly insulting to proposition such a woman with a sex for money offer.

I have no interest at this point in marriage, but if I did, no way to meet Ukrainian women like this in bars, nor marriage agencies, nor online. They are in high demand by local men and have many candidates lined up from high school, university, work, social circles, etc, assuming they ever find themselves single. Furthermore, they are very leery of damaging their image by being seen in public with foreign sex tourists.

10's (and 9's and 8's) going to Moscow, Paris, Dubai, etc is a minor phenomenon compared to competition from local men, plus the factor that foreigners are no longer seen as high status. On the contrary, being involved with older foreigner men is increasingly seen as shameful. Some guys don't see this because they live in the P4 P bubble, but I can definitely sense hardened attitudes among civilian girls since my first visit to Ukraine in 2015. (I interact frequently with civilian girls as part of my social activity.).

[PhotoSlider]

10's (and 9's and 8's) going to Moscow, Paris, Dubai, etc is a minor phenomenon compared to competition from local men, plus the factor that foreigners are no longer seen as high status. On the contrary, being involved with older foreigner men is increasingly seen as shameful. Some guys don't see this because they live in the P4 P bubble.I did experience that type of prejudice. At least two very desirable ladies refused to be seen with me outside of my apartment. They were semi-pro indies, not hourly, and decided themselves who to meet with, and under what conditions. We did have wonderful sex more than once, but I am 25-30 years older, and one of them never changed her rules, even though she sends me greetings for each major holiday, and chats frequently enough while I am away from Kiev. The other one warmed up substantially, and we started to go out, maybe because I treated her as a human being, and helped significantly beyond money.

I am not quite sure if those Ukrainian girls, going abroad in the hope of more lucrative endeavors, are that much different from University students and office workers that never get out of country. There are hardened souls at all levels and in all walks of life, and I have met well seasoned travelers, that opened up and were totally wonderful. I would say over time international travelers tend to expect more money as a compensation for their time. But there are always fresh young college girls incoming from remote towns and villages.

[Sprusic2019]

There's also the issue of unspecified nonlinearity in these rating scales. Some even say there are no 10's, that's just an ideal. Linear percentile scale is better because everyone knows that there are exactly 10% of 22 year old girls in the top 10%, etc..Thanks Kozerog. And I completely agree with you: The rating scale of girls should be purely subjective and for every man it's working differently. Recently I spoke with a pimp who manages few brothels near Arena complex and she'd mentioned to me that guys from Turkey and other Arabic countries are here favorite clients because they usually select girls that no one else even looks at. She says: "They prefer country style girls" - short bulky blonds with fat ass.

Sounds weird but it is what it is.


Anyway, where did the fabled 10's of the 1990's come from originally? Some from Kyiv (Kiev back then), many more from small towns. Has the overall gene pool of Ukraine degenerated such that mothers no longer give birth to 10's in these small towns? Because otherwise, there will continue to be plenty of 10's (and 9's and 8's) migrating to Kyiv so as to market their beauty. They don't immediately go to Moscow or Paris the day they turn 18.1. Significant demographic impact:

Over 7 million people moved out of Ukraine since 19 XX and very few moved in. The separation of Cremea and Donbass contributed too. Lots of hot girls used to come from that regions.

Lot's of girls I've met over 10 years had moved to other countries (and many of them now have beautiful daughters) Very hot girls it's just too bad they're no longer around. The majority of girls I'm meeting these days are dreaming about moving out of Ukraine. They just don't believe in the bright future of this country. "I don't want my future children to be raised here. " or "There may be a bright future down the road, but I don't want to waste the rest of my life waiting for this "future" or "I'm selling my pussy so I can make good money and move out of here" - These are quotes I keep hearing from almost every girl I meet.

2. Economy:

After collapse of Soviet Union. The whole economical model had been heavily damaged by "democratic" reforms. Lots of people lost their jobs and those who still worked couldn't get their salaries for months, so lots of girls.

Entered P4 P market without any hesitation;- this just was the matter of survival for them and their families. Ukraine is still very poor country (probably the poorest in Europe) but you can't even compare to what is was back in 90 x tru early 20 x. So, as of now. The economy has rebuild to some sort of acceptable format and there are much better chances for the girls (specifically good-looking) of finding a decent job that keeps them on survival level + once in a wile they make some extra cash (semi-pros). But most of them do not post on mamba or go to night-clubs or deal with body-shop agencies. They just taking a straight tour to Paris or Milan or Dubai (this preferable due to "privacy" factor) or work with local pimps who sends them to "internal" clients. In any case. This category of ladies are normally best looking once but they're completely closed to "public".

3. Liberalization of Traveling:

Back in time. Kiev was the only comfortable and highly paying destination for the girls from all over Ukraine because It was very hard to cross borders to visit other places and getting EU visa was a nightmare for a single girl. Also, girls were not ready mentally for these moves. Mostly due to "soviet" style of thinking. "don't go far away from home" , "it's bad and dangerous out there" and so on. These days: getting EU visa is no longer required for Ukrainian citizens with bio-metric passports. So, for a girl from Vinnitsa or Kharkiv let's say. Why bother going to Kiev if she can fly directly to Dubai, Paris, London to double or triple her "salary" ? For the girls who don't speak any languages Moscow or St. Petersburg are a pretty good alternative to Kiev. Also, there is a "privacy" factor that's been very important for any working girl and the further she goes the more secure she feels about her privacy. 90% of girls you meet in Kiev are actually not from Kiev. They just follow basic rule of thumb: "don't f*ck where you live and don't live where you f*ck" and it's critical for P4 P business.


They don't immediately go to Moscow or Paris the day they turn 18.You would be surprised but by the time they turn 18 - they've already developed a pretty good understanding of getting around the word. I had a business conference in Paris back in July and I've used few reliable local sources (I cannot post a link here but try to google "sex-fuctory") I've met 6 girls and only 1 girl was 21 the rest of them are teenagers. 1 girl was actually from Kiev we had a very good time chatting in Russian. And I've asked her to leave me her contact number so when I'm in Kiev we can meet again and I'd pay her same amount of cash. Well. It didn't work out. She did not leave me her contacts because the idea of meeting again in Kiev didn't attracted her at all. She lives.

And study in Kiev but making $$$ in Paris. Of cause not all of teenage girls go to Paris or Moscow as soon as they hit 18 . But many of them have parents in much better financial shape to help her out thru the college also.

In the present time there is much better possibility of finding a part-time job or a local dude with deep pockets than it used to be years ago. And obviously this category of "teenagers" is not available for P4 P.


Probable preference order for girls who would even consider foreigners: 1) marriage to rich handsome local their own age, with mutual love; 2) marriage to handsome local their own age who has good enough income, with mutual love; 3) marriage to rich old local; 4) sponsored in Kyiv by rich locals or visiting foreigners; 5) moving to Moscow or Paris for sponsoring; 6) day job, with occasional semi-pro P4 P with face control (she chooses clients); 7) full-time P4 P at Kiev escort club and hidden agencies, without face control.
I didn't cover all possibilities and we can argue about preference ordering, but important conclusion is that when you go hard P4 P, meaning one-time meeting with no face control and no emotional connection, you are only getting access to a very small number of beautiful girls who are psychologically suited to such hard P4 P, and to rejects who couldn't get anything better. If you want better quality girls, you need to move up to long-term sponsor rather than one-time P4 P client.You're absolutely right on this. P4 P restricts from any type of relationships or emotional connections. But it all really depends on your personality and mood. Some guys are looking for relationship and obviously it's a long term game with some significant commitments;- But there are many guys out there (including myself) who don't really need any type of relationship (just f*ck as many cute girls as possible for a reasonable price). I've tried a "sponsorship" model a couple of times but it's just didn't work out for me. At the same time I know few guys who are not even looking for hookers because they prefer "sugar-daddy" type of relationship and they look very satisfied.

BTW: Girls also prefer long-term relationship as it makes them feel and act more relaxed and natural. They don't really like being working in brothels or strip-clubs or be "on-call" 24/7. There are a couple major issues here which I will cover in details in my following posts.

[Sprusic2019]

10's (and 9's and 8's) going to Moscow, Paris, Dubai, etc is a minor phenomenon compared to competition from local men, plus the factor that foreigners are no longer seen as high status. On the contrary, being involved with older foreigner men is increasingly seen as shameful. Some guys don't see this because they live in the P4 P bubble, but I can definitely sense hardened attitudes among civilian girls since my first visit to Ukraine in 2015. (I interact frequently with civilian girls as part of my social activity.).This is very true. There are still many good looking women living and working in Kiev. And if you walk into our office building (I'm working in Parus "skyscraper" on Lesi boulevard) You'll be pleasantly surprised with a good number of professionally dressed hot looking ladies. But these are not available. I will not drill down into details here, but hopefully most of you understand what I'm talking about.

[Sprusic2019]

Kozerog is 100% on, -new and most beautiful candidates are born and properly raised all over Ukraine every day. At the current birth rate 50 babies are born every hour. 25 girls. 2 of them are 9 or 10. That is 500 new girls every year that are 9 and above. Kiev is at least 3 million, that is about 5% of Ukrainian population, residing in the country. At least 25 new 9-10 girls every year.My bet is out of 25 only 1 or 2 will be available for P4P.

[Sprusic2019]

I did experience that type of prejudice. At least two very desirable ladies refused to be seen with me outside of my apartment. They were semi-pro indies, not hourly, and decided themselves who to meet with, and under what conditions. We did have wonderful sex more than once, but I am 25-30 years older, and one of them never changed her rules, even though she sends me greetings for each major holiday, and chats frequently enough while I am away from Kiev. The other one warmed up substantially, and we started to go out, maybe because I treated her as a human being, and helped significantly beyond money.
I'd rather classify this as "privacy rules" . I'm not "foreigner" I was born in Russia and speak fluent Russian. Yet at the same time very few girls wanted to join me for "after sex" dinner or lunch or breakfast.

And there is a very simple reason behind this type of behavior. Locals call Kiev a "Big Village" which simply means that there is a good chance of bumping into someone you already know anywhere on the street or shopping mall or Buddha Bar or Avalon. In addition;- many girls may have jealous boyfriends or husbands or hidden admirers who may track every step she makes. So please keep this in mind when taking out your "sweetheart" outside of your hotel room or apartment.

Also in my experience. For P4P or even long-term engagements girls really don't care much if you are local or foreigner. As long as you treat her well and pay the right amount of cash. Few girls I know are only "working" with foreigners.

And there are a couple reasons for this. 1) It's a good opportunity for them to exercise foreign language (specifically English, French, Italian) so they can feel more comfortable touring other countries 2) They like "clients" (that's how they actually call sex-tourists) come and go. At the same time it's not easy to get rid of local patrons in case of excessive relationship or whatever. This may lead to some blackmailing, reputation damage and other negative things.

[Riina]

On the contrary, being involved with older foreigner men is increasingly seen as shameful. Some guys don't see this because they live in the P4 P bubble, but I can definitely sense hardened attitudes among civilian girls since my first visit to Ukraine in 2015. (I interact frequently with civilian girls as part of my social activity.).Again, that's why it's best to understand relationships with Ukrainians as financial and frame it that way from the beginning. It's delusional to believe a Ukrainian girl would socially ruin herself to date an older foreigner for nothing.

In the states, if I want a girl half my age to go out in public with me, I have to give her access to things like a car and my home. Basically, I need to better her lifestyle. Cash alone is not enough. Too many dudes here can write a check.

[Power550]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but is kievescort dot club the real GIA site?

Also has anyone tried kievx?

[PhotoSlider]

My bet is out of 25 only 1 or 2 will be available for P4P.P4 P is easier, but that is what Kozerog calls "staying in P4 P bubble". I don't like any type of restriction and want them from all the sources. Some Pros are good and convenient, Semi-pros and Civilians are equally sweet, I especially like the process of courtship and seduction)).

Perhaps the question is how many out of 25 would agree to give me their phone number? So far my experience shows 1 out of 10. Which is again 2 or 3 out of 25. Not sure if these two categories overlap or are independent.

And as I said, these numbers seems too low. You mentioned many hot looking girls in your workplace at Parus stroll around, and are not available.

Not available for P4 P? Not available for dating, because they work there? Because they target those few levels higher in the corporate hierarchy for upward mobility within society? Because they already are married, or dating, or have sugar-daddies? Not available to you personally? Available for a few days and 200-300 euros during their weekend trips out of country?

I actually prefer to sponsor ladies that work somewhere in the office, not those that are constantly hunting without any other means to support themselves. That is why I never invite Ukrainian ladies to join me outside of Kiev. That is why I am happier with civilians, or newbies in business, with first year students, rather than jaded travelers with Dubai, Rome and Istanbul in every picture on Instagram.

My interpretation of LTR is dynamic harem of multiple semi-pros and civilians, that gets updated sufficiently frequently, as ladies leave it eventually, or stop sleeping with me, but still expect gifts out of the goodness of my heart, and I do my best not to feed those hopes in vain.


...there are much better chances for the girls (specifically good-looking) of finding a decent job that keeps them on survival level + once in a while they make some extra cash (semi-pros). But most of them do not post on mamba or go to night-clubs or deal with body-shop agencies. They just taking a straight tour to Paris or Milan or Dubai (this preferable due to "privacy" factor) or work with local pimps who sends them to "internal" clients. In any case this category of ladies are normally best looking ones but they're completely closed to "public".That is precisely what I am talking about. Lately I do see proliferation of Viber-based agencies, that do not have topmodals style websites, or any websites, period. Closed to public.

They work with referred clients, and ladies at those agencies are very good for a reasonable price, as there is low overhead. Girls themselves are calling the shots, and therefore are not exhausted by working round the clock. With these it is easy to cut the middleman dispatcher out, and sponsor directly. I typically pay no more than 1000 UAH an hour, often considerably less for true GFE. Funny how for those ladies I frequently get compliments myself:

- Your girls are always so beautiful!

I looked through my last few dozen girls in Kiev to see if there were any 9's or 10's among them simply based on looks, that is face and body. Again, admittedly, I am not that picky, but I did read papers on the subject of female beauty world wide in scientific journals with good reputation. There were statistical attempts in those serious papers to establish female beauty criteria based on samples from different races, and respective statistically representative feedback. It was in "Nature" or "Genetics" or "Scientific American".

Anyway, review of the ladies, that "had an honor" with your not so humble servant, shows significantly more than 20% equal to or greater than 9. Which means that subjectively, even despite my omnivorous inclination, I had enough substrate to satisfy my urge not only with ugly vultures, but with the hot beauties as well.

Actual number is between 20 and 40% depending on the size of sliding window chosen. Which correlates with my primary objectives:

1. To be happy and satisfied.

2. Not to overpay for illusive qualities and my own ambitions.

I am not specifically targeting 8's, 9's and 10's. Personality, creative nature, and attitude are much more important to me, but I certainly appreciate when physical beauty coincides with those factors, emphasizing the pleasure even more. And my adventures show that subjectively there are enough hotties to draw from.

One may ask what is the rating of the rest 60-80%. I do not believe I ever went under 6, even while completely drunk. Then again, do we rate them with or without makeup? Some left an impression of working on their eyelashes and face for hours, and I love the artistry, when it is combined with the character of properly behaving lady.

YMMV, gentlemen, and that's not a problem at all.

[PhotoSlider]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but is kievescort dot club the real GIA site?Yes it is. There is no GIA anymore. KEC executed hostile take over in May-July 2018.

Sister site is escort dot vc.


Also has anyone tried kievx?Waiting for feedback myself. Seems that oil magnates and Arab sheikhs do not visit our Forum for the time being.

[Devil1687]

Hello to all good people.

Writing a report after a long time because this was a new country for me and to provide some information to same minded people.

Firstly, this forum lacked the basic info for first timers to follows to getting laid with as much ease as possible. Now there are plentiful of options listed but mostly from either residents or frequent visitors. This is my perspective from a person travelling first time there on a very limited time period and a not a very easy budget.

I traveled last month on the 12th Dec. For 3 days with a day tour of Chernobyl also planned so I knew my options on ground will be severely restricted. Hence started with badoo from home which had lots and lots of options BUT language was a major issue. Didn't fix up with anyone.

Day 1 arrived to my apartment which I selected quite close to Arena, maybe 5 minutes walking. Excellent location for about 50-60 usd per day. There was a housekeeper always in the apartment but there was no restriction on guests.

Since I arrived in the afternoon and was quite tired as I had worked through the entire last night, thought will just relax. I had downloaded mamba which I Think is the app of choice apart from tinder there.

Got a lot of options from 100 us to 300 us for quite amazing looking women but didn't go for it.

Next day after the tour I fixed a date with a 26 yr old, blonde and a very good body. Quoted 100 us for a short time meet.

Met around 8 pm at the restaurant near the apartment. Well she was a bit diff from the pics as in a bit older. She was actually 30, had a kid but body was quite good. Asked money upfront. Overall it was a decent experience, BBBJ was OK. Despite a natural child birth had a beautiful pussy where I went to work for sometime. I think she liked my tongue work. Ha ha.

Well after the deed went to Arena which was a big disappointment. Went to a gentleman's club with the entrance from the street side, decent girls but not nude.

Day 2 I hooked with a 26 yr chubby girl from mamba. Now she was not a great looker but could speak decent English and she had the cups. Fantastic set of breasts. I bought wine for her and went to the apartment. Chatted for a while and the got comfortable. She won't give BBBJ so didn't force. She did like getting her pussy licked which even I enjoy and she actually got an orgasm. I was surprised when she gave a hurried BBBJ. Maybe to thank me. The best part was when she spat in between her tits and asked me to tit fuck her. Ohh that was great when her boobs just covered up my dick. The fuck was decent and I liked her on top with her breasts hanging on my face. Afterwards chatted a while and she left. Cost was 1200 UAH and definitely worth it. Tip 200. I think we spent a bit more than 2 hours together.

Went Harems club in the night. Huge place with decent girls. I liked it there.

Next day off to the desert.

I'm not good at long descriptions so please excuse.

[Riina]

There must be closed communities of underground pimps in Kiev. Disgusting customers is one of the biggest deterrents of girls working straight pay for play.

[PhotoSlider]

Again, that's why it's best to understand relationships with Ukrainians as financial and frame it that way from the beginning. It's delusional to believe a Ukrainian girl would socially ruin herself to date an older foreigner for nothing.In the past week three Ukrainian ladies, that do not know each other, asked me for a wire transfer. End of the month is close, funds ran out.

One is gravely sick, the other one is a poor student, and the third one supposedly quit P4 P and started new life working at the bank.

Mentor from this Forum taught me a good lesson by setting an example with his own behavior. He prefers to give money in person, and after the fact, not before, and definitely not remotely.

Guess what, sick one experienced a miraculously quick healing, bank worker doesn't have time to talk to me. Only that student continues to chat occasionally, because her college is few hours away from Kiev, and I represent potential income in the not so distant future. The other two are in Kiev, and already are hunting elsewhere, their perception of reality is on a much shorter scale, - make money now, as there are too many temptations and ways to spend for industrious ladies in the Capital City.

Do I think they are cheaters taking advantage of me? Hell, no! I am thankful that Kiev exists, and I have had those beauties moaning and then smiling happily in my arms. I am also thankful for the newly acquired strength to say a firm "No!" to their attempts at treating me as an easily accessible ATM.

[AntonySun1996]

I'm currently living with my girl in Kiev in an apartment for around two weeks. She is a solid 9 on my books, if not 10. I pay her 5000 $, which is not a small amount here in Kiev from what I know. And I also gave her a Dolce & Gabbana handbag which costed me around 2000.

The problem is, however, that I need like 5 times of sex a day, but it seems she is only willing to offer once or twice, and rarely three. She is quite easily offended as well and gets angry even when I just kindly ask her to have sex with me when she is not willing to. She often claims she is tired from sex or feels pain or shit like that.

Once or twice a day is definitely not enough for me, and the attitude issue is also driving me crazy. We are both good in bed and I give her great orgasms. I just don't understand why she doesn't want to have multiple times of sex each day and is so easy to get triggered. Am I missing anything here? Has anyone had any experience dealing with similar situations?

[PhotoSlider]

Sorry if this is a dumb question but is kievescort dot club the real GIA site?

Also has anyone tried kievx?Here is an example of review supposedly left by one of the KEC customers:

"Astonishing Marta was my choice in this agency one fine day and it brought me many fabulous moments. When I saw her for the first time the best girl's grace was her top and moves showed off the sensuous curves of her little breasts and panties. She had the cutest, little, puffy nipples just budding out under her bra. She was the ocean of charm and I felt her wild nature, hidden deeply waiting for the right moment to unleash. When we enjoyed each other's bodies seem the time and the whole world stopped. She is definitely a true gem."

Maybe I am wrong, but to me this looks like a copy'and 'paste from Playboy or Hustler in the attempt to attract more buyers, not something that one of the real mongers would write up. In general, after GIA has been transformed into KEC, quality of these fake reviews went significantly down. Grammar errors, spelling, writing style. I do not expect impeccable posts, but there is a noticeable decline in both English and Russian.

Lack of recent discussions about KEC on this Forum seems to indicate that there are better ways to spend time and money in Kiev. Report by Devil1687 after his first visit to Kiev, and PMs from other brave undertakers provide a good stream of enjoyable reading.

[PhotoSlider]

I'm currently living with my girl in Kiev in an apartment for around two weeks. She is a solid 9 on my books, if not 10. I pay her 5000 $, which is not a small amount here in Kiev from what I know. And I also gave her a Dolce & Gabbana handbag which costed me around 2000.

The problem is, however, that I need like 5 times of sex a day, but it seems she is only willing to offer once or twice, and rarely three. She is quite easily offended as well and gets angry even when I just kindly ask her to have sex with me when she is not willing to. She often claims she is tired from sex or feels pain or shit like that.

Once or twice a day is definitely not enough for me, and the attitude issue is also driving me crazy. We are both good in bed and I give her great orgasms. I just don't understand why she doesn't want to have multiple times of sex each day and is so easy to get triggered. Am I missing anything here? Has anyone had any experience dealing with similar situations?I have been in the same boat, and fixed it, but you may not like my suggestion.

Solution is simple. Explain to her that as beautiful as she is, her ass is about to get kicked out. You did mention in the past that you do not prepay, yet she already in the possession of that Dolce &G bag, which makes her think it would be difficult for you to cut her loose.

I assume 5000 USD payment is still pending. I would just kick her out. Enough is enough. Go from arguing and drama toward happiness.

Now, the challenge is to have quality sex 5 times a day. 5 K per 2 weeks means 2500 a week, means 350 per day. Very much doable.

KEC would be too expensive. You have essentially 2 options. Sports fucking with hourly call girls from validated agencies, or establishing your own base of ladies willing to satisfy your thirst.

The latter requires time, frequent visits and preferably long term presence in Kiev.

I combine the benefits of both: sports fucking carousel and database of established contacts.

In the past staying with one girl for days and weeks seemed more reliable to me, but after few tries I lost the interest:

- I cheat on those LTR girls anyway whenever I have free 2-3 hours.

- They start thinking too much of themselves.

- They start to evade their primary responsibility.

- I like the novelty and excitement of meeting the fresh ones.

Does this help you any?

[MohdirFan82]

I'm currently living with my girl in Kiev in an apartment for around two weeks. She is a solid 9 on my books, if not 10. I pay her 5000 $, which is not a small amount here in Kiev from what I know. And I also gave her a Dolce & Gabbana handbag which costed me around 2000.

The problem is, however, that I need like 5 times of sex a day, but it seems she is only willing to offer once or twice, and rarely three. She is quite easily offended as well and gets angry even when I just kindly ask her to have sex with me when she is not willing to. She often claims she is tired from sex or feels pain or shit like that.

Once or twice a day is definitely not enough for me, and the attitude issue is also driving me crazy. We are both good in bed and I give her great orgasms. I just don't understand why she doesn't want to have multiple times of sex each day and is so easy to get triggered. Am I missing anything here? Has anyone had any experience dealing with similar situations?I hope you don't hate me what I am about to tell you, I don't know you background but sounds like you are from Western Country.

Anyway, country like Ukraine, where you have to or commit to pay 5 k and 2 k bag to get laid. This is extreme desperation or seems like you have really tough time getting laid.

Here in Las Vegas, or in Chicago I paid 250 $ for 3 hours to a stunner collage girl, and fucked her tail off, still she would come back for some more and even refer her friends as well. Since you are very young, born in 1996 if I am not mistaken? Its normal or should be normal to have high sex drive, and you should be spending 350 $ a day to fund your habit.

This is my rule, fuck, and forget and move to next. Never listen to bullshit cause you are paying and not getting it for free.

[Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[Timmy21]

Here is an example of review supposedly left by one of the KEC customers:

In general, after GIA has been transformed into KEC, quality of these fake reviews went significantly down. Grammar errors, spelling, writing style. I do not expect impeccable posts, but there is a noticeable decline in both English and Russian.

Lack of recent discussions about KEC on this Forum seems to indicate that there are better ways to spend time and money in Kiev. Report by Devil1687 after his first visit to Kiev, and PMs from other brave undertakers provide a good stream of enjoyable reading.I would say that since their new ownership; re-branding, or whatever happened, their customer service has gone down as well. The operator / scheduler they have now can be kind of curt at times, I seriously question her comprehension / communication / language skills. Previously, dealing with Kristina was totally satisfying, she understood foreigners (westerns) and her customer service skills were pretty darn good. I liked how whenever I had communication with her, she would always remember me, no matter how long it had been since I previously spoken with her. The old format was much better.

[Riina]

I'm currently living with my girl in Kiev in an apartment for around two weeks. She is a solid 9 on my books, if not 10. I pay her 5000 $, which is not a small amount here in Kiev from what I know. And I also gave her a Dolce & Gabbana handbag which costed me around 2000.
WOW! That's a lot of money. My experience as a fifty year old guy in the states has shown that I pay about $20 an hour for a girls time when they start meeting me outside agencies. I'm guessing in Ukraine it would be about $5 an hour. And if I was 23 in Ukraine, it probably be about 25 cents an hour.

[Power550]

I hope you don't hate me what I am about to tell you, I don't know you background but sounds like you are from Western Country.

Anyway, country like Ukraine, where you have to or commit to pay 5 k and 2 k bag to get laid. This is extreme desperation or seems like you have really tough time getting laid.

Here in Las Vegas, or in Chicago I paid 250 $ for 3 hours to a stunner collage girl, and fucked her tail off, still she would come back for some more and even refer her friends as well. Since you are very young, born in 1996 if I am not mistaken? Its normal or should be normal to have high sex drive, and you should be spending 350 $ a day to fund your habit.

This is my rule, fuck, and forget and move to next. Never listen to bullshit cause you are paying and not getting it for free.Can you tell us how you set that up with the college girl?

[PhotoSlider]

WOW! That's a lot of money. My experience as a fifty year old guy in the states has shown that I pay about $20 an hour for a girls time when they start meeting me outside agencies. I'm guessing in Ukraine it would be about $5 an hour. And if I was 23 in Ukraine, it probably be about 25 cents an hour.2 years ago it was about $10 an hour for multiple days with a gorgeous 21 years old in the arms of 50+ adventurer.

Why would the same P4P girl provide 95% discount (25 cents versus 5 bucks) just because the guy is 23 is beyond me.

It surely could be a totally different girl for free, or maybe movie ticket and popcorn? I know for a fact that GIA / KEC student employees have absolutely no desire to entertain their male classmates. They are interested in young professionals with adequate life style, but smart one are realistic. Fierce competition pushes them towards Riina et al. Where the chances to benefit one way or the other are in girls favor.

[AntonySun1996]

I have been in the same boat, and fixed it, but you may not like my suggestion.

Solution is simple. Explain to her that as beautiful as she is, her ass is about to get kicked out. You did mention in the past that you do not prepay, yet she already in the possession of that Dolce &G bag, which makes her think it would be difficult for you to cut her loose.

I assume 5000 USD payment is still pending. I would just kick her out. Enough is enough. Go from arguing and drama toward happiness.

Now, the challenge is to have quality sex 5 times a day. 5 K per 2 weeks means 2500 a week, means 350 per day. Very much doable.

KEC would be too expensive. You have essentially 2 options. Sports fucking with hourly call girls from validated agencies, or establishing your own base of ladies willing to satisfy your thirst.

The latter requires time, frequent visits and preferably long term presence in Kiev.Thanks for the advice.

The problem is that she is a gem I took great effort to get and I don't think I can just kick her out without regrets. I know her personalities well, and I know that if I threat her to kick her out if she doesn't want to have multiple sex with me, instead of complying, she would actually walk straight out of the door. And I cannot let that happen.

5000 $ is still pending but she already has the handbag, and she seems to be happy about that. I don't want to be tough on her and force her to have at least three times of sex with me everyday. We have already established some sort of personal connections beyond money and sex. She has introduced me to some of her families and friends as her boyfriend, and we have talked a lot about our past and future. Maybe I am naive, but I still want to use soft methods to solve this problem if possible.

[AntonySun1996]

I hope you don't hate me what I am about to tell you, I don't know you background but sounds like you are from Western Country.

Anyway, country like Ukraine, where you have to or commit to pay 5 k and 2 k bag to get laid. This is extreme desperation or seems like you have really tough time getting laid.

Here in Las Vegas, or in Chicago I paid 250 $ for 3 hours to a stunner collage girl, and fucked her tail off, still she would come back for some more and even refer her friends as well. Since you are very young, born in 1996 if I am not mistaken? Its normal or should be normal to have high sex drive, and you should be spending 350 $ a day to fund your habit.

This is my rule, fuck, and forget and move to next. Never listen to bullshit cause you are paying and not getting it for free.I'm from China, 23 yo, and do not have much experience of getting laid. I do not expect to fuck hot girls for free or at cheap prices. All I want is that the girl offers me quality sex while getting paid.

[BillV90]

Hello fellow monger,

I just wanted that I appreciate your report!

Feels that mostly the discussions here are whether Kiev is good or bad and GIA.

I haven't been there myself yet but I appreciate it. What would you do different?


Hello to all good people.

Writing a report after a long time because this was a new country for me and to provide some information to same minded people.

Firstly, this forum lacked the basic info for first timers to follows to getting laid with as much ease as possible. Now there are plentiful of options listed but mostly from either residents or frequent visitors. This is my perspective from a person travelling first time there on a very limited time period and a not a very easy budget.

I traveled last month on the 12th Dec. For 3 days with a day tour of Chernobyl also planned so I knew my options on ground will be severely restricted. Hence started with badoo from home which had lots and lots of options BUT language was a major issue. Didn't fix up with anyone...

[Riina]

Why would the same P4P girl provide 95% discount (25 cents versus 5 bucks) just because the guy is 23 is beyond me.Most college age guys can attract freebies.

[DramaFree11]

I am glad others are starting to discuss this topic. I have wrote about this as well. You can very beautiful girls on SA for between $300-400 in the states, with multiple sessions included.

If you can girls in Kiev for $150 for multiple hours it is still a good bargain. Anything more is just not worth it to bang a 6. Many destinations where you can get high end girls for $200-400.

As far as 10 hanging out in Kiev and grinding it out with Sex T. I find it very unlikely. In my opinion a 10 is a Super Model or Actress, not a grinder. Sorry.

[PhotoSlider]

Most college age guys can attract freebies.No doubt about that. They can even attract high quality girls, their peers at the college or anywhere else.

But college age guys are unlikely to attract for free KEC / GIA girls, as the latter have different mind set. I happened to hear their opinion on the subject few times in the past when I used to order from GIA. The answer was sincere "no, thanks", and certainly not to flatter me. Maybe you witnessed otherwise.

[PhotoSlider]

Thanks for the advice.

The problem is that she is a gem I took great effort to get and I don't think I can just kick her out without regrets. I know her personalities well, and I know that if I threat her to kick her out if she doesn't want to have multiple sex with me, instead of complying, she would actually walk straight out of the door. And I cannot let that happen.

5000 $ is still pending but she already has the handbag, and she seems to be happy about that. I don't want to be tough on her and force her to have at least three times of sex with me everyday. We have already established some sort of personal connections beyond money and sex. She has introduced me to some of her families and friends as her boyfriend, and we have talked a lot about our past and future. Maybe I am naive, but I still want to use soft methods to solve this problem if possible.I totally understand. Been there myself.

So it is 2000+5000 for 2 weeks. 500 USD a day. 20 USD an hour for whatever you are doing. Soundly sleeping or walking around hand in hand, plus ongoing expenses on your GF. Food, maybe some entertainment, and other.

I did similar for 10 USD / hour, in fact we never discussed money, it was gifts that I bought myself, and upon farewell good size bonus Kozerog style. I had to leave Kiev for business project elsewhere, and surely she wanted me to return ASAP. I decided against. There are better ways to spend money, even in Kiev. We had wonderful sex 2-3 times a day, enough for me, but this artificially self-induced monogamy started to get long in the teeth.

With your gem you have to make a simple decision. Can you afford 500+ per single fuck? Yes or No?

Some people can, and I personally do not have a problem with them doing it. 52 weeks a year at $7 K /2 weeks is $180 K. Some husbands spend more on their significant others, and do not even get 1 shot a day.

Her declining is not unusual, not everybody is that horny. I did meet one girl Milena-Tasha, she needed 10 times in one day, and was rather attractive, but she is an exception.

So, it is unlikely your GF will agree to even do it 3 times a day. Maybe she is manipulating you, maybe not, it doesn't really matter. If you need more sex then pay hourly girls, and fuck all you want on a side, away from your beauty. Trying to force Ukrainian girl will not lead anywhere. Got to negotiate it beforehand. Too late now.

And when I suggested to kick her out I meant literally to open the door and watch her leave. Threats are useless. She would be hurt, you seem to value her. If you do not have strength to evict her, then it is your choice, and I am not to be a judge in any way. You make decision, and then honestly face the consequences without complaining.

I did precisely that with another long stay, who felt too entitled. It was such a relief! She tried to strong arm, I said "Do svidan'ya. Good bye". She stormed out at 20:30 and at 21:45 I had one of the best call girls as a consolation for mere 2100 UAH! First time I saw her, she was fresh and excitingly shy! Asked me politely for more of those chocolate candy and champagne. The next evening I sent Viber message to a MILF, and didn't have time to blink before she came over for multiple shots, including greek and to the head BBBJCIMTCS. She stayed overnight, but I had another girl awaiting me at 6:30 am. So at 6 am MILF woke up on her own, we had a quickie, got a cab for her, and went to my 6:30 am. That's my style, but it is not for everybody, and I certainly have my share of misfortunes.

One of my GFs doesn't want to have sex with me frequently while she sleeps over. She also doesn't have a problem when I tell her to eat at Avalon, while I have next call girl over at the apartment. But that is rare arrangement. Most of the Ukrainian girls would be extremely jealous and territorial.

Another unusual option for you would be to discuss with your gem openly, saying that you are 23 and need more sex, and explain that you will address your physiological and mental needs with other ladies for money. Somehow I doubt she would agree. When I do not get enough, I shortly explain it once. Then the lady in question either stays in the database, if she is interesting and affordable, or she gets retired from the pool.

You are attached mentally, and that's tough at the moment. But whenever hurt, just remember that she is far from being the only one. There are many others that will heal your feelings quickly.

[DramaFree11]

Most college age guys can attract freebies.Agree, total myth. Ukraine or any girl for that matter would prefer to have a guy from there native country, within a normal age range. They only date older foreign guys for money, not for any other reason.

Many years ago Ukraine guys were much different. The modern guy now takes care of themselves, does not drink that much, educated, and dresses nice. Ukraine guys can be some of the nice guys in the world, but there is becoming a major stigma about Foreign Guys taking there girls, so views maybe changing. At the end I was feeling sorry for Ukraine Guys, because the Foreign Guys, had Change the game so dramatically that there is just false expectation from Ukraine Girls now, even with the Native Guys, girls expectations and demands are just too high, they just do not have the purchase power of the foreigners.

[PhotoSlider]

I would say that since their new ownership; re-branding, or whatever happened, their customer service has gone down as well. The operator / scheduler they have now can be kind of curt at times, I seriously question her comprehension / communication / language skills. Previously, dealing with Kristina was totally satisfying, she understood foreigners (westerns) and her customer service skills were pretty darn good. I liked how whenever I had communication with her, she would always remember me, no matter how long it had been since I previously spoken with her. The old format was much better.Thanks for posting).

Good to know that someone still orders.

Kristina indeed listened and could provide valuable advice.

Would you care to comment on the service quality, especially by the new girls? Did you had to resolve any challenges with the management?

[Paris07]

I'm from China, 23 yo, and do not have much experience of getting laid. I do not expect to fuck hot girls for free or at cheap prices. All I want is that the girl offers me quality sex while getting paid.兄24351;65292;35265;21040;32769;20065;12290;12290;12290;.

[Paris07]

I'm from China, 23 yo, and do not have much experience of getting laid. I do not expect to fuck hot girls for free or at cheap prices. All I want is that the girl offers me quality sex while getting paid.Hi, brother, Chinese characters can not be typed here, I am from China, too.

I think PhotoSlider is right, the girl is manipulating you, do not be too kind to her. I do not think she can find another guy generous and young as you. You deserve better.

By the way, why did you go to Ukraine? Work? Study? Or read the story of Mei Ai Cai and go especially to find ukraine girls?

Wish you enjoy your life in ukraine, I am in Beijing, hope to join you there.

And happy spring festival.

[AntonySun1996]

I totally understand. Been there myself.

So it is 2000+5000 for 2 weeks. 500 USD a day. 20 USD an hour for whatever you are doing. Soundly sleeping or walking around hand in hand, plus ongoing expenses on your GF. Food, maybe some entertainment, and other.

I did similar for 10 USD / hour, in fact we never discussed money, it was gifts that I bought myself, and upon farewell good size bonus Kozerog style. I had to leave Kiev for business project elsewhere, and surely she wanted me to return ASAP. I decided against. There are better ways to spend money, even in Kiev. We had wonderful sex 2-3 times a day, enough for me, but this artificially self-induced monogamy started to get long in the teeth.

With your gem you have to make a simple decision. Can you afford 500+ per single fuck? Yes or No?

Some people can, and I personally do not have a problem with them doing it. 52 weeks a year at $7 K /2 weeks is $180 K. Some husbands spend more on their significant others, and do not even get 1 shot a day.

Her declining is not unusual, not everybody is that horny. I did meet one girl Milena-Tasha, she needed 10 times in one day, and was rather attractive, but she is an exception..Update.

We talked about this issue and she explained that she had bad mood and was unwilling to have sex because her periods are coming, and her body hurts. This is understandable. Just going to see how will she behave after her periods.

To answer your question. I can afford 500 per fuck, but the problem is that when we agreed on the meeting, what I expected was to fuck as many times as I want every day.

[AntonySun1996]

Hi, brother, Chinese characters can not be typed here, I am from China, too.

I think PhotoSlider is right, the girl is manipulating you, do not be too kind to her. I do not think she can find another guy generous and young as you. You deserve better.

By the way, why did you go to Ukraine? Work? Study? Or read the story of Mei Ai Cai and go especially to find ukraine girls?

Wish you enjoy your life in ukraine, I am in Beijing, hope to join you there.

And happy spring festival.Hello bro,

Nice to see a Chinese compatriot here, as I rarely see them in Kiev mongering scene.

I neither work nor study here. I study in England which is a few hours flight away from Kiev. I frequently visit Kiev primarily for mongering reasons but am also open to marriage if I meet the right girl.

If you come to Ukraine I would be happy to meet you. Have you come here before?

Chun Jie Kuai LE.

[Riina]

When Ukrainians tell you they're in a bad mood mood, that means they need money. If you don't brighten their day, they'll mention bills.

[PhotoSlider]

To answer your question. I can afford 500 per fuck, but the problem is that when we agreed on the meeting, what I expected was to fuck as many times as I want every day.You expected it, but didn't agree upon beforehand. I made those kind of mistakes myself, and faced the music. Ukrainian girls are good at selling the promise, and extending the waiting period, delay after delay, one explanation after another.

It is definitely great that you have NP with affording it. Seems like you do get some goodness out of this relationship.

[DramaFree11]

Back in Moscow, loving it great place. Yesterday meet a girl for dinner from Tinder, normal date. Great Girl! We meet at one my favorite Rest. We start talking and yes, she is from Odessa and Relocated from Kiev to Moscow. I talked to her about her classmate that had left Ukraine for better opportunities, she said over 40% are gone and more are trying to leave.

I usually have an escort come over at lunch time, then I go do traditional dating and clubs in the evening. One Escorts I am seeing she is also from Ukraine. As everyone know I do not use numbers 9-10's often. She is solid 9, you can look her on the site I posted on the Moscow. 5'8" 105, perfect, but she is hard to track down, she travels the world. $200-250 GFE no clock watching, but she is like a ghost.

In my 3 trips to Moscow in the last 2 months, I have probably in talks with about 40 people 10-20%, of them are originally from Ukraine, sorry facts do not lie.

[AntonySun1996]

Well said PhotoSlider. Definitely should have made agreements beforehand. Now I'm just going to see how I can fix this up at this point.

[PhotoSlider]

...We have already established some sort of personal connections beyond money and sex. She has introduced me to some of her families and friends as her boyfriend, and we have talked a lot about our past and future...I am sincerely happy to read this, because this shows that part of the new Ukrainian generation is not xenophobic at all. Personality means more to them, than race and skin color.

Kiev is a huge melting pot, and that adds significantly to its beauty. Similar diversity I saw in New York and Rio-de-Janeiro. Admittedly Kiev doesn't have as many blacks, and there are still some stupid idiots that do not like foreigners, but you get my idea.

[Devil1687]

Hello fellow monger,

I just wanted that I appreciate your report!

Feels that mostly the discussions here are whether Kiev is good or bad and GIA.

I haven't been there myself yet but I appreciate it. What would you do different?Thank you for your kind words. Well next time will stay for a few more days and warmer month.

[AntonySun1996]

Will be in Kiev until Feb 5.

[TinyHippo]

Thanks for the advice.

The problem is that she is a gem I took great effort to get and I don't think I can just kick her out without regrets. I know her personalities well, and I know that if I threat her to kick her out if she doesn't want to have multiple sex with me, instead of complying, she would actually walk straight out of the door. And I cannot let that happen.

5000 $ is still pending but she already has the handbag, and she seems to be happy about that. I don't want to be tough on her and force her to have at least three times of sex with me everyday. We have already established some sort of personal connections beyond money and sex. She has introduced me to some of her families and friends as her boyfriend, and we have talked a lot about our past and future. Maybe I am naive, but I still want to use soft methods to solve this problem if possible.$5000 is too much in my eyes unless you are a millionaire. She will get used to it and soon will be asking for a car. If you really like this girl as a "girlfriend" you need to start to separate money and sex. If not, you must look at her just as an escort. Also remember that girls just like gifts. It could be something small like flowers or perfume. If it is flowers or a gold watch, they will just look at it as one gift. If you are going to spend that much money on her, I would spread out the money to make it look like 50 gifts and not just one huge one. Do you want her bedroom to have one gift from you or 50? Think about it.

The other thing is Slavic and Chinese culture are much different. You need to be the leader. Decide what to do and where to go on dates. Always ask her questions so you know what she likes, but Ukrainian girls like guys that are in control. I am East Asian too and Asian girls can be bossy, but this is really looked down upon in Ukraine.

Also, if you are into blogs, check out Funkybambi Lu on Youtube. I watched a few episodes with my Ukrainian girl since I am from HK too.

[TinyHippo]

I had a question about Travelgirls even though it looks like a scam to me. I had "girls" writing me even before I had a profile photo which makes me think it is full of bots.

Is it mostly pure escorts like Mamba where you can ask to meet and they tell you a price? Or is it more like a Sugar Daddy website?

[PhotoSlider]

Thank you for your kind words. Well next time will stay for a few more days and warmer month.Good positive report, no doubt! Thank you much for lightening up the Forum.

Glad to hear you are coming back. May and September are my favorite in Kiev.

May is beautiful, because scantily clad ladies get out and about. Love and Sex are in the air.

September might be even better because there are no exams at Universities. In fact some of the first year students just joined their colleges, and other ones returned to the Capital City from their towns and villages, and need money and entertainment.

[PhotoSlider]

Well said PhotoSlider. Definitely should have made agreements beforehand. Now I'm just going to see how I can fix this up at this point.Well, there are two schools of thought on the subject.

One says, everything should be discussed beforehand. How many times, which orifices are allowed, and which ones are taboo. Money in the open on the table.

This approach works great for many, and I respect it. Even use it myself with hourly call girls.

I prefer the other way though. Negotiate beforehand only the price and duration- 3-5 hours with the new girl. Never commit to multiple days if we never met before. I can however extend the meeting after the first 15-30 minutes, if she's a great kisser, and I can clearly sense that she will be passionate and tender in bed.

During the first meeting I see how far she can go within my sphere of interests, that go beyond just mating. Then I contemplate if I want to spend a sleepover or longer with her. Going for 2-3 days together seems like a reasonable maximum, but no sooner than the second meeting. Anything longer requires truly special admiration going both ways that happens with maybe one out of 30 or 50 girls that I met in my life.

I also very much like when the girl leaves after 16-24 hour stay, and both of us want badly to continue, but one or both cannot at this moment in time. Then meeting again later is so sweet and passionate!

One girl gets 300 USD regardless of our meet duration. Twelve hours or two, she is that good. It would be impossible for me personally to renegotiate her billing rate down.

Similarly, another equally gorgeous and delightful in bed lady gets little less than 1000 UAH for an hour. After more than 5 hours we stay at 5 K UAH.

Another attractive one was always 2000-2500 UAH for overnight including Greek and CIMS.

Those are the conditions and money that I give them in an envelope. We do not count anymore, never even discuss. Girls are happy with arrangements and are eager to meet again, so am I, but I will not go lower. Occasionally I give individual gifts and bonuses.

I do not necessarily calculate how many shots I get per 100 USD or vise versa, how much is one shot in UAH. It is all about customer (me) satisfaction. It is also critically important to me that the lady is happy, both with money earned, gifts received, orgasms experienced, entertainment, and generally speaking both of us having great time together.

Bottom line, your lady will expect 5000 + expensive gift during your next 2 weeks together. And she may do her best to continue this relationship. This touches the subject of Kozerog's LTR philosophy and his business cost analysis. Some may find his way too expensive. I personally think he figured out a great way to mitigate risks and maximize his satisfaction for acceptable investment.

The most important piece is your happiness most of the time. There might be challenges here and there, but as long as you are happy with your girl 80-95% of the paid time together, you are golden.

I do recall at least couple times when I was heart broken after separating from Ukrainian girl. And I was so happy to find a new one right away. The funny thing is, I only remember the feeling of being heart broken, but not those girls names, or faces, or what year it happened.

Kiev is great for healing in the arms of new beauties. Scheduling a threesome is even better, but much trickier.

Forgive my lengthy posts.

[DramaFree11]

$5000 is too much in my eyes unless you are a millionaire. She will get used to it and soon will be asking for a car. If you really like this girl as a "girlfriend" you need to start to separate money and sex. If not, you must look at her just as an escort. Also remember that girls just like gifts. It could be something small like flowers or perfume. If it is flowers or a gold watch, they will just look at it as one gift. If you are going to spend that much money on her, I would spread out the money to make it look like 50 gifts and not just one huge one. Do you want her bedroom to have one gift from you or 50? Think about it.

The other thing is Slavic and Chinese culture are much different. You need to be the leader. Decide what to do and where to go on dates. Always ask her questions so you know what she likes, but Ukrainian girls like guys that are in control. I am East Asian too and Asian girls can be bossy, but this is really looked down upon in Ukraine.

Also, if you are into blogs, check out Funkybambi Lu on Youtube. I watched a few episodes with my Ukrainian girl since I am from HK too.$5000, plus gift is insane. You could almost sponsor 2 super hot chicks, every where world, but the states, for the whole month. Makes no sense, but this is Ukraine.

[AntonySun1996]

I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.

BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.

I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.

[DramaFree11]

I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.

BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.

I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.You need to cut your loses, and move on. Learn from your mistake.

[PhotoSlider]

I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.You did the smart thing not paying her the full amount yet.

She knows when you depart and is riding it out one day at a time, anticipating that lavish payment. Not many days left before both of you are free.


BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.This technique is widely used by girls all over the Globe. Cock-blocking! And there is a very simple way to make the best of it.

If my lady brings another girl to my apartment, I ask if it'll be a threesome. If they giggle and decline, I invite one of my friends. He can take care of the other girl, either in a separate bedroom, or at least have a conversation with her in the kitchen, while I retire to the bedroom with mine.

I lay it out before the girls visit, so that there is no misunderstanding and evasive maneuvers upon their arrival.


I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.Best of luck! Make a decision, and after that life becomes really simple. Be prepared for ensuing SMS and Viber drama, but there is a simple way to block. My explanation in similar situations is curt. With especially presumptuous ones I literally say GTFO in Russian - "Uyobyvaj!

Some of the girls leave "hostage" personal things at my apartment while away at work or college, high heels shoes obviously visible at the front entrance, even cool looking lingerie. That doesn't prevent me from inviting others in the meantime, and certainly doesn't hold me from kicking misbehaving ones out.

I would take a look at these 2 weeks, and count the days that you were happy. Subtract next week, as it didn't happen yet. Subtract her period, as every girl knows her biological cycle, and should not schedule 2 weeks sex around it. Take into consideration 2 K purse you already gave. Do you even have to pay her anything? Does she have any real leverage over you? Like a brother who looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger?

I prefer to avoid conflicts by all means. Civilized relationship is a must, which means decent behavior is expected from both. Some girls want to be pampered just for the honor to have them around, that is their dream in Kiev. Tough shit! You pay well above the aver age, therefore you have a good say in what is acceptable.

BTW, I have no doubt that your object of desire is at least a 9 in more than just her looks. I am also confident that there are other 9's and 10's as well as very much fuckable 6's and 8's available in Kiev for your consolation, empathy and compassion. You have another week.

Yes, some on the Forum would say that mongers like you spoil Ukrainian girls by paying them too much, and letting them to take advantage of you. I do not know about that. You pay what you consider adequate, it is your personal business. And responsibility to request decent treatment, according to your standards, is also yours.

And again, forgive my mentoring. As I said before, you already had good time with her. Good learning experience for many more to come.

[Member #4722]

I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.

BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.

I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.As the old saying goes, you are not paying them for sex, you are paying them to leave. The high amount you paid her not only set unrealistic expectations for yourself (women are crazy in general and even the best hooker is not a sex robot that can perform on command over multiple days. Didn't you ever see "Pretty Woman" haha? You also probably look like a sucker in the girl's eyes that you would pay that much in the first place. Honestly $5 K in Kiev screams either desperate or rich and dumb. Cut your losses get a more reasonably priced girl for the am for a few sessions then another at night if you want sex nonstop or use the big agency these girls are probably used to getting fucked nonstop for hours.

I never pay exorbitant amounts for an escort even if I could afford it. Once in California I saw an add for a 6-foot redhead with an amazing body and her rate was $400/ HR. My max was $250 but I had to have this woman. She was fat, sweaty and smelly. I have had some bad dates since, but I still remember that one to this day because I regret spending that much. That was 10 years ago! For me the amount of regret I have for a bad session directly correlates with the fee paid.

Good luck!

[AntonySun1996]

$5000 is too much in my eyes unless you are a millionaire. She will get used to it and soon will be asking for a car. If you really like this girl as a "girlfriend" you need to start to separate money and sex. If not, you must look at her just as an escort. Also remember that girls just like giftsShe doesn't like to be viewed as an escort and I don't want to make her think herself as escort. But I have seen the consequences of attempts to separate money and sex.

[AntonySun1996]

Do you even have to pay her anything? Does she have any real leverage over you? Like a brother who looks like Arnold Schwarzenegger?.She is using her beauty as a leverage over me. She knows how much I admire her hot body and is trying to take advantage of it. I have even told her that I want to have serious relationship with her, which her replied that she needed to think about it. I am not sure if this is another mistake I made.


Yes, some on the Forum would say that mongers like you spoil Ukrainian girls by paying them too much, and letting them to take advantage of you. I do not know about that. You pay what you consider adequate, it is your personal business. And responsibility to request decent treatment, according to your standards, is also yours.

And again, forgive my mentoring. As I said before, you already had good time with her. Good learning experience for many more to come.IMHO it is not the amount of cash I pay that spoils the girl, but my tolerance of the bad behaviours. It has something to do with my personalities. I always try to avoid conflicts and difficult conversations by making concessions, only to make things worse.

[AntonySun1996]

The high amount you paid her not only set unrealistic expectations for yourself (women are crazy in general and even the best hooker is not a sex robot that can perform on command over multiple days.

Good luck!Maybe I am wrong but I don't think two to three times is too demanding for a girl, as I used to have girls who could do that. It is more of an attitude problem. I would assume it is in general more difficult for guys to perform multiple times of sex than for girls to do so. If a 20-ish girl claims she is unable to have to to three times of sex a day, it is hard for me to believe it's true.

[TeFab456]

I had a question about Travelgirls even though it looks like a scam to me. I had "girls" writing me even before I had a profile photo which makes me think it is full of bots.

Is it mostly pure escorts like Mamba where you can ask to meet and they tell you a price? Or is it more like a Sugar Daddy website?It's a sugar travel website, and in my experience most girls are real.

[PhotoSlider]

It's a sugar travel website, and in my experience most girls are real.Some are agencies, and some of the real girls are asking too much, or do not deliver as expected. The usual statistics. AFAIK it is more expensive than mamba.

[AntonySun1996]

Many of girls on the site look quite unattractive to me even on photos. I would rate the majority of the girls there 6-7 based on photos.

Margarita however looks quite hot to me. Would like to try when I get time. Anyone has reviews of this girl?

[PhotoSlider]

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think two to three times is too demanding for a girl, as I used to have girls who could do that. It is more of an attitude problem. I would assume it is in general more difficult for guys to perform multiple times of sex than for girls to do so. If a 20-ish girl claims she is unable to have to to three times of sex a day, it is hard for me to believe it's true.It is not about girls physiological ability to let any male ejaculate into her 3 times a day. It is about her mental readiness and willingness to do so with this particular individual.

It is easier to do so with a new acquaintance. That is why I like carousel sports fucking, when call girls are changing like multi-color glass flakes in a kaleidoscope.

Did the same capable girl of yours did it 2-3 times every day for 2 weeks with you? They call it "honey moon".

[PhotoSlider]

She is using her beauty as a leverage over me. She knows how much I admire her hot body and is trying to take advantage of it. I have even told her that I want to have serious relationship with her, which her replied that she needed to think about it. I am not sure if this is another mistake I made.You are passionate and sincere. She surely uses it against you to her benefit. She thinks she got you on the hook, and it appears there is enough evidence to support that.


IMHO it is not the amount of cash I pay that spoils the girl, but my tolerance of the bad behaviours. It has something to do with my personalities. I always try to avoid conflicts and difficult conversations by making concessions, only to make things worse.Are you a masochist? Do you enjoy being mistreated and then complain for your own money?

If yes, then continue, pay her another 5 K and a bonus. If not, then enough gentlemen here already provided solid opinions ranging from "cut your losses" to explicit GTFO.

It takes courage to confess and ask the Forum for advice. Now make up your own mind. BTW, where did you meet this girl? I am not asking for her contact, just curious.

[PhotoSlider]

She doesn't like to be viewed as an escort and I don't want to make her think herself as escort. But I have seen the consequences of attempts to separate money and sex.She takes substantial amounts of money. For sex or just for her company, doesn't matter. That's what escorts do, unless you are her SO, or you reside in Kiev and she is totally yours, or both of you are respective parts of each others harems.

2 weeks for $7 K is escort. She wants you to become her long term sponsor. What a great prospective! For her).

Would she continue bringing her sister to meetings with you if you stop paying? Just try and see.

You don't like conflicts, but you already live in the permanent state of conflict with yourself, that she is skillfully feeding.

And there is nothing specifically Ukrainian in her behavior. Soap operas and dramas are global phenomenon.

[PhotoSlider]

Many of girls on the site look quite unattractive to me even on photos. I would rate the majority of the girls there 6-7 based on photos.

Margarita however looks quite hot to me. Would like to try when I get time. Anyone has reviews of this girl?Now you are talking!

Katya had very good review by Jymondor in the Spring of 2018:

https://kievescort.club/girl/katia12

Not sure if she still dances at Premiere Palace. I would definitely do her myself. YMMV.

Website states Liza is one of the top girls:

https://kievescort.club/girl/liza10

Did anybody from Forum try Margarita? Reviews on both websites are decent. She is in demand though, and just returned from a trip or something on January 27.

The last girl that I had from GIA-KEC resigned recently. No one I know personally at the moment.

[Riina]

She takes substantial amounts of money. For sex or just for her company, doesn't matter. That's what escorts do, unless you are her SO, or you reside in Kiev and she is totally yours, or both of you are respective parts of each others harems.Take away the money and see what happens.

[Riina]

It's a sugar travel website, and in my experience most girls are real.It's a scam site.

[DramaFree11]

Many of girls on the site look quite unattractive to me even on photos. I would rate the majority of the girls there 6-7 based on photos.

Margarita however looks quite hot to me. Would like to try when I get time. Anyone has reviews of this girl?You are absolutely correct. Anything above 7's are almost impossible if they even exists anymore.

[PhotoSlider]

Take away the money and see what happens.There will be some drama, and if Anthony stands his ground firm, or even better, shuts down and diversifies elsewhere, she will disappear quickly to hunt for others.

Is it cynicism or being realistic?

[PhotoSlider]

Many of girls on the site look quite unattractive to me even on photos. I would rate the majority of the girls there 6-7 based on photos.Majority is 6-7, but not all. I did have 9's and 10's at GIA. In fact one of my top 3 girls ever was from GIA and resigned 2 years ago.

Tastes differ, but IMHO KEC is not hopeless)). It is for you to decide what strikes your fancy. New dispatchers will not help to choose much. Do you have a local, Russian speaking friend? Then it'll be cheaper to order in UAH.

[AntonySun1996]

Are you a masochist? Do you enjoy being mistreated and then complain for your own money?.Definitely not, but I still need to be cautious as my actions could result in many possible consequences. I just don't want to make things worse.


BTW, where did you meet this girl? I am not asking for her contact, just curious.As I have mentioned on this forum before, she used to be an apartment WG working under an agency, but then we got each others contact after a few meetings and we started to meet privately. She quitted the job recently and mainly relies on my financial support to live.

[AntonySun1996]

It is not about girls physiological ability to let any male ejaculate into her 3 times a day. It is about her mental readiness and willingness to do so with this particular individual.

It is easier to do so with a new acquaintance. That is why I like carousel sports fucking, when call girls are changing like multi-color glass flakes in a kaleidoscope.

Did the same capable girl of yours did it 2-3 times every day for 2 weeks with you? They call it "honey moon".I wouldn't pay 5000 $ if I knew she couldn't do it 2-3 times every day. Maybe my expectations were too high.

The other girl I knew could do it, but unfortunately I don't like her anymore and decided not to meet her anymore.

[AntonySun1996]

Would she continue bringing her sister to meetings with you if you stop paying? Just try and see.The problem is not just her sister. I feel she keeps trying to avoid sex with me with all sorts of excuses. Yesterday she said she was ill (which was true). She got cough and fever, and didn't want me to touch her body, let alone sex. I had absolutely no idea how to deal with this situation. There are already two to three days we haven't had sex at all. I feel I look like a fool.

[DramaFree11]

It's a scam site.Even the fans of Kiev, admit all sites in Kiev are full of Scams. 99% profiles and pictures are fake. Gia or whatever it is called now, is the most reliable, but way too much money, for those type of girls.

[AntonySun1996]

Majority is 6-7, but not all. I did have 9's and 10's at GIA. In fact one of my top 3 girls ever was from GIA and resigned 2 years ago.

Tastes differ, but IMHO KEC is not hopeless)). It is for you to decide what strikes your fancy. New dispatchers will not help to choose much. Do you have a local, Russian speaking friend? Then it'll be cheaper to order in UAH.So what is the most efficient way of getting 9's and 10's in Kiev now? I got my 9's with trial-and-error methods with agency girls, but this is time and energy consuming. I wonder if there are smarter ways out there. Mamba seems to be full of fake profiles now, and girls on Instagram are hostile and try to scam me by asking for money in advance.

And no, I don't have local Russian speaking friend.

[PhotoSlider]

I still need to be cautious as my actions could result in many possible consequences. I just don't want to make things worse.The way it is now you can only make things better.

My last 3 trips to Kiev add up to 11 weeks total. During that time I had all of 3 day (1 and then separately 2 in a row) without sex for reasons not related to girls willingness. There were also multiple episodes of having 4 or 5 different girls within 24 hours. IMHO that is nothing special considering options available in Kiev.

Time to move on. Wish I had your problems.

[Riina]

She doesn't like to be viewed as an escort and I don't want to make her think herself as escort. But I have seen the consequences of attempts to separate money and sex.
As I have mentioned on this forum before, she used to be an apartment WG working under an agency, but then we got each others contact after a few meetings and we started to meet privately. She quitted the job recently and mainly relies on my financial support to live.She's obviously a prostitute. So treat her that way. These relationships come and go. Kick her to the curb if she's not into your program.


Is it cynicism or being realistic?Not cynicism, pure reality.

[AntonySun1996]

Even the fans of Kiev, admit all sites in Kiev are full of Scams. 99% profiles and pictures are fake. Gia or whatever it is called now, is the most reliable, but way too much money, for those type of girls.Bait and switch is a global phenomenon.

When I went to Tobita Shinchi in Osaka, Japan, I immediately hoped there could be one in Kiev. That would save us from the be&S shit.

[DramaFree11]

She's obviously a prostitute. So treat her that way. These relationships come and go. Kick her to the curb if she's not into your program.

Not cynicism, pure reality.As usual Riina, is correct. Enough on this subject. Way past the time to move on, enough is enough!

[DramaFree11]

Bait and switch is a global phenomenon.

When I went to Tobita Shinchi in Osaka, Japan, I immediately hoped there could be one in Kiev. That would save us from the be&S shit.Real funny, I have been to Kiev over 50 times and lived there on 3 separate occasions, me or my friends had VIP access to 90% of the Night Clubs, I am the only one claiming I never had 9 or 10. I was there during the good old days, I would just be lying if said anything different. Here is a guy that goes to Kiev for his first or second times, say's hie is with a 10, now she is a 9. Common this is a Super Model and would not be hanging out in Kiev, sorry that was 10 years ago. Forget about the money, if you did any research on this site you would know what is up. This just makes zero sense.

Now you are complaining. Guys are honestly trying to help you, but you continue to make things worse. Please move on. Veterans please do not encourage this behavior.

[PhotoSlider]

So what is the most efficient way of getting 9's and 10's in Kiev now? I got my 9's with trial-and-error methods with agency girls, but this is time and energy consuming. I wonder if there are smarter ways out there. Mamba seems to be full of fake profiles now, and girls on Instagram are hostile and try to scam me by asking for money in advance.I am getting tired already.

Smarter way is to stop pretending there are no viable options in Kiev, stop complaining, get off your ass, and start fucking.

You seem to have money. You are in the right city. KEC is there. For mere 4000 UAH you can have decent girls, and for 6000 - great ones. Nobody will take you by the hand and bring to your next dream prostitute. Get her strictly for one hour, fuck, then see if you want to extend and pay her 75% directly.

If you pay for my over the weekend round trip tix. I'll quickly fly out and demonstrate how it's done. I can guarantee that despite all the obstacles in 48 hours I will have at least three 9's.

[AntonySun1996]

Real funny, I have been to Kiev over 50 times and lived there on 3 separate occasions, me or my friends had VIP access to 90% of the Night Clubs, I am the only one claiming I never had 9 or 10. I was there during the good old days, I would just be lying if said anything different. Here is a guy that goes to Kiev for his first or second times, say's hie is with a 10, now she is a 9. Common this is a Super Model and would not be hanging out in Kiev, sorry that was 10 years ago. Forget about the money, if you did any research on this site you would know what is up. This just makes zero sense.I certainly respect your experience and knowledge on Kiev.

We all have different tastes and definitions of 9's or 10's. For me a girl doesn't need to be a Scarlette Johnson's lookalike to be a 10. Just, say, top 10% is fine. And a 10 in my books could be a 6 in others eyes, and vice versa. The 0-10 rating system of girls is way too subjective. I don't judge others tastes of girls and don't want to argue if it is possible to get 9's and 10's. Just hope everyone could have fun.


Now you are complaining. Guys are honestly trying to help you, but you continue to make things worse. Please move on. Veterans please do not encourage this behavior.Did I complain about anything? Just pure opinion. Hoping there could be less be&S doesn't mean I don't like Kiev. I have mentioned on this forum many times Kiev is still my favorite place. If not so why would I come to Kiev again and again?


Guys are honestly trying to help you, but you continue to make things worse. Please move on. Veterans please do not encourage this behavior.And I certainly appreciate your help. And no, things are not getting worse. Following the forum members advice I started to have some difficult conversations with my girl stating clearly what I need. It worked a bit. Her attitude somehow went better. Further efforts are still needed though. I just need more time to achieve ideal results.

[PhotoSlider]

Kiev. The City of Contrasts.


Not cynicism, pure reality.Antony for 2 weeks in Kiev and Devil1687 for 2 days. What a difference between these two trips!

On a separate note, I started forgetting some of the girls faces from the last 2018 trips. Time to go back.

It happens to me. Some of the ladies I forget more or less right away, but there was one girl in September of 2016 that perplexes me still. I prepped Jacuzzi for her to relax, and champagne for both of us. Went to take a shower myself, finished it and heard that sweet angelic voice:

- Come here, join me please.

- Are you sure there is enough space for us together?

- Sure there is! Come to me.

I remember her body, how I was sitting behind so close, and we touched more, she turned her head to kiss and kept smiling even after we moved into the bedroom.

And that's about it! I have absolutely no recollection of her face or name. I do have a guess that was one of the two prominent 20-21 years old GIA ladies, each of them I met more than once. I am still in contact with one. When I politely asked back in 2016, both of them separately declined to confirm or deny adding to this lovely mystery.

Ain't Kiev great!

[DramaFree11]

Real funny, I have been to Kiev over 50 times and lived there on 3 separate occasions, me or my friends had VIP access to 90% of the Night Clubs, I am the only one claiming I never had 9 or 10. I was there during the good old days, I would just be lying if said anything different. Here is a guy that goes to Kiev for his first or second times, say's hie is with a 10, now she is a 9. Common this is a Super Model and would not be hanging out in Kiev, sorry that was 10 years ago. Forget about the money, if you did any research on this site you would know what is up. This just makes zero sense.

Now you are complaining. Guys are honestly trying to help you, but you continue to make things worse. Please move on. Veterans please do not encourage this behavior.I am getting tired already.

Smarter way is to stop pretending there are no viable options in Kiev, stop complaining, get off your ass, and start fucking.

You seem to have money. You are in the right city. KEC is there. For mere 4000 UAH you can have decent girls, and for 6000 - great ones. Nobody will take you by the hand and bring to your next dream prostitute. Get her strictly for one hour, fuck, then see if you want to extend and pay her 75% directly.

If you pay for my over the weekend round trip tix. I'll quickly fly out and demonstrate how it's done. I can guarantee that despite all the obstacles in 48 hours I will have at least three 9's.

Now I have heard. Asking Anthony to pay for your trip, then setting unrealistic expectations. You guys keep the dream and fantasy alive about Kiev.

The advice getting off his ass and start meeting girls.

I am in Moscow with a hanging out 5'8" blond girl.

[PhotoSlider]

If you pay for my over the weekend round trip tix. I'll quickly fly out and demonstrate how it's done. I can guarantee that despite all the obstacles in 48 hours I will have at least three 9's.Antony, I hope you didn't take my solicitation seriously.

I still stand by my claim of getting three 9's in 48 hours on the ground in Kiev. I understand that not everybody is believing, willing or capable. I'll report on it this May / June.

I also agree with your prior statement. My 9's might be different from yours. Or not. Did you take statistics classes at University already? Is it possible to calibrate and normalize Ukrainian beauties? If only to some extent.

The best way I know to discuss the differences in opinion, would be to meet in person in Kiev, and synch up. Let me know via PM when is your next trip, maybe we can meet up for lunch between my 10 am and 4 pm.

[Docspomi]

Guys,

I'm looking to visit Kiev. Is it possible that there are no websites to trust for escorts except for the very expensive ones? Really? Even in Moscow or Prague there are websites that also shows the maps where escorts are located. Please help. Thanks.

[DramaFree11]

Guys,

I'm looking to visit Kiev. Is it possible that there are no websites to trust for escorts except for the very expensive ones? Really? Even in Moscow or Prague there are websites that also shows the maps where escorts are located. Please help. Thanks.Correct, even the expensive sites are just not that good or reliable. If you are use to Moscow and Prague, you are in for a major let down. Good luck.

[AntonySun1996]

Guys,

I'm looking to visit Kiev. Is it possible that there are no websites to trust for escorts except for the very expensive ones? Really? Even in Moscow or Prague there are websites that also shows the maps where escorts are located. Please help. Thanks.Unfortunately you are way more likely to encounter fake profiles in Kiev than in Russia.

During one of my early visits in Kiev I once ordered a young hot girl with seemingly legit photos on relaxportal, but instead of the hot girl in the photos, a 50 year old fat babushka showed up. So be prepared.

That being said, there are still really hot gems hidden there waiting for you to find. That of course requires time and luck.

[PhotoSlider]

Guys,

I'm looking to visit Kiev. Is it possible that there are no websites to trust for escorts except for the very expensive ones? Really? Even in Moscow or Prague there are websites that also shows the maps where escorts are located. Please help. Thanks.There are no trustworthy up to date escorts maps. Maybe partially because there are known incidents where Indies are targeted by extortionists of all kinds.

Kiev moved away from websites towards Viber / WhatsApp communication, Telegram Channels, and Instagram.

The most reliable method is exchange between Forum members visiting Kiev frequently, or local friends. Girls do not like meeting random strangers, they prefer decent wealthy enough gentlemen with references, or their own contacts.

[Auaind]

Antony, I hope you didn't take my solicitation seriously.

I still stand by my claim of getting three 9's in 48 hours on the ground in Kiev. I understand that not everybody is believing, willing or capable. I'll report on it this May / June.

I also agree with your prior statement. My 9's might be different from yours. Or not. Did you take statistics classes at University already? Is it possible to calibrate and normalize Ukrainian beauties? If only to some extent.

The best way I know to discuss the differences in opinion, would be to meet in person in Kiev, and synch up. Let me know via PM when is your next trip, maybe we can meet up for lunch between my 10 am and 4 pm.Hey guys am planning a second trip to Kiev to celebrate a (much younger) friend's birthday. For some reason he's fixated on Eastern European women. Will be there Feb 14th, 15th. Hoping my learnings from last time will come in handy this time around. Will definitely send a post-trip report, however would appreciate pointers / contacts / do's don't etc. Also open to meet anyone who's free for drinks etc.

/ AU.

[AntonySun1996]

Wish you all health, happiness & luck!

Have fun and stay safe in Kiev.

[BangNibiru]

Hi,

I'm from India planning to visit Kiev in later days in may please any senior or newbie in thread can help me mongering scene in Kiev. I have no idea whatsoever so like to take it in simple manner. Have been to pattaya many times so know about hookers there on beaches in day an night time. Do hookers there too stroll around particular places or how do I get a decent Ukrainian girl for short or long time. Please I request this forum to help me in this regard about the dos and don't there at this place. Can certainly give knowledge and contacts for capital city Delhi, India (decent Indian chick) and of course for Pattaya as well.

Thanks in advance guys.

[BangNibiru]

Wish all of you great year ahead and lots of blessing.


Wish you all health, happiness & luck!

Have fun and stay safe in Kiev.

[Dimitrius]

Hi,

I'm from India planning to visit Kiev in later days in may please any senior or newbie in thread can help me mongering scene in Kiev. I have no idea whatsoever so like to take it in simple manner. Have been to pattaya many times so know about hookers there on beaches in day an night time. Do hookers there too stroll around particular places or how do I get a decent Ukrainian girl for short or long time. Please I request this forum to help me in this regard about the dos and don't there at this place. Can certainly give knowledge and contacts for capital city Delhi, India (decent Indian chick) and of course for Pattaya as well.

Thanks in advance guys.If would like found economic girl you can use mamba. On local escorts directories to much fake profiles girls. Any way better if you ask send you amateurs pictures. Also you can visit night clubs.

[Walky23]

Hi,

I'm from India planning to visit Kiev in later days in may please any senior or newbie in thread can help me mongering scene in Kiev. I have no idea whatsoever so like to take it in simple manner. Have been to pattaya many times so know about hookers there on beaches in day an night time. Do hookers there too stroll around particular places or how do I get a decent Ukrainian girl for short or long time. Please I request this forum to help me in this regard about the dos and don't there at this place. Can certainly give knowledge and contacts for capital city Delhi, India (decent Indian chick) and of course for Pattaya as well.

Thanks in advance guys.Kiev is totally different to Pattaya or Delhi. Its bit Discrete. Most of the girls use websites to advertise. But they mostly don't put their photos for security reasons.

Try these.

https://www.escortmeetings.com

https://kievlady.com/modeli/cena/samyye-deshevyye-prostitutki/

[Janhrmod]

Anybody know if Roksolana erotic massage in Kiev is closed?

https://www.wikisexguide.com/wiki/Kiev/Massage_parlors/Roksolana


Kiev is totally different to Pattaya or Delhi. Its bit Discrete. Most of the girls use websites to advertise. But they mostly don't put their photos for security reasons.

Try these.

https://www.escortmeetings.com

https://kievlady.com/modeli/cena/samyye-deshevyye-prostitutki/

[Timmy21]

Last week I had a very bad experience with Gia, or whatever they call themselves now days, called and requested a girl come over for six hours, she arrived dressed in red sweat pants and a red sweat shirt, looked like she was jogging, she sat down and asked me what are we going to do for 6 hours, I thought are you joking or what, I just said lets start with a strip tease, she said later and asked for tea, after 45 minutes of nonsensical chatter, I said how about that strip tease, she told me to do a strip tease, I told her that's it, requested that she leave, she called the agency and they said to charge me $250, for a fucking headache, she returned the money to me with the exception of $250, as she walked out the door she said that she was there for intelligent conversation and nothing else, really, that's what she said, what a total waste of money.

A few hours later I was still pissed off, I needed something, something to pick me up, gave Relax Massage Salon a call, asked how many girls are working, the nice operator said 4 and told me to come on down, Relax Salon is a 10 minute walk from my flat, located on yl. Pushkina, When I arrived I was greeted by a very nice manager, she brought in the line-up and I chose Maria, 23 yrs. Old about 165 cm, great ass, she was great, a real nice massage, she let my hands wonder all over her nice body, I really liked this salon.

[Riina]

Last week I had a very bad experience with Gia, or whatever they call themselves now days, called and requested a girl come over for six hours, she arrived dressed in red sweat pants and a red sweat shirt, looked like she was jogging, she sat down and asked me what are we going to do for 6 hours, I thought are you joking or what, I just said lets start with a strip tease, she said later and asked for tea, after 45 minutes of nonsensical chatter, I said how about that strip tease, she told me to do a strip tease, I told her that's it, requested that she leave, she called the agency and they said to charge me $250, for a fucking headache, she returned the money to me with the exception of $250, as she walked out the door she said that she was there for intelligent conversation and nothing else, really, that's what she said, what a total waste of money.

A few hours later I was still pissed off, I needed something, something to pick me up, gave Relax Massage Salon a call, asked how many girls are working, the nice operator said 4 and told me to come on down, Relax Salon is a 10 minute walk from my flat, located on yl. Pushkina, When I arrived I was greeted by a very nice manager, she brought in the line-up and I chose Maria, 23 yrs. Old about 165 cm, great ass, she was great, a real nice massage, she let my hands wonder all over her nice body, I really liked this salon.As a hobbyist, I feel it's best to pay initially the very minimum to meet a girl. Once chemistry is established, then pay for longer sessions.

[PhotoSlider]

Last week I had a very bad experience with Gia, or whatever they call themselves now days, called and requested a girl come over for six hours, she arrived dressed in red sweat pants and a red sweat shirt, looked like she was jogging...Would you mind sharing the name of the lady in question please?

[PhotoSlider]

As a hobbyist, I feel it's best to pay initially the very minimum to meet a girl. Once chemistry is established, then pay for longer sessions.And if the girl seems trustworthy, then pay her directly, bypassing reseller / dispatcher. Certainly that hurts the agency revenue margins, and you run a risk without their protection, but they never really help anyway.

[Member #4722]

Anyone ever had success seducing a cam girl into sex? Out of boredom I have been spending some time on cam sites. I normally look for Ukrainian girls way down the listings and these girls don't make a lot of money but some are very cute. I met this young mother recently and we have been flirting a lot and already moved to Whatsapp communication. She is not in the greatest shape but she has a lot of features I like and I am very attracted to her. I have probably tipped $150 on her the last couple weeks she sometimes makes $100 in a day but most often $20-$50 in tips. So with not much money I have been a "big tipper" and a generous guy. I think there is a good chance I can bed this lady. She lives in a small town I think somewhat close to Odessa I was thinking to maybe invite her for a vacation or something. Probably will be expensive just for the plane tickets / hotel but true GFE sex with a woman 20+ years younger than me may be worth it. I doubt she would charge me for sex but it would probably be way more $$ than going the normal escort route.

[BangNibiru]

Your inputs are really appreciable, thank you for your support will certainly like help you if you fly to India. Thanks


Kiev is totally different to Pattaya or Delhi. Its bit Discrete. Most of the girls use websites to advertise. But they mostly don't put their photos for security reasons.

Try these.

https://www.escortmeetings.com

https://kievlady.com/modeli/cena/samyye-deshevyye-prostitutki/.

[Misterxxx]

Your inputs are really appreciable, thank you for your support will certainly like help you if you fly to India. Thanks

.Once again two sites with 95+ % fake profiles.

[DramaFree11]

Once again two sites with 95+ % fake profiles.True, but correction. 99.5% Of the profiles are fake. If you think you going to meet girls online you have another thing coming. A lot of work and a lot of, scams, and B. S.

[PhotoSlider]

Once again two sites with 95+ % fake profiles.Validating trustworthiness of Ukrainian websites pictures should never be an objective of a monger in Kiev.

I do the opposite. Dispatcher gives me the pic, name, hourly rate, and parameters of the girl. I go to kievlady.com and search to get more pictures, if she is there, and check if there is a substantial markup. So far I found 8 beauties. Never had a fake picture, but again, that is beyond the point.

Kievlady.com has almost 10 thousand girls, some are not even present. Indeed, ordering from website frequently leads to bait and switch. But how can one reliably estimate the percentage of fake pic?

It is one thing to hate Kiev, and provide opinionated perception of reality without visiting the city for years. It is another to try giving statistically representative estimate based on field research.

GIA / KEC has 100% real pictures. Some even have real faces. IMHO Kievlady has at least 10-20% of real photos, if not more. So it is not 99 or 95%. It is 80-90% fake, maybe even less. But that's irrelevant because I would trust to some extent the pix sent to me directly via Viber from the dispatcher I know. I would certainly trust it more than kievlady.com. I would also trust the actual face of a girl in the taxi on my sidewalk, and trust her naked body in my bedroom. The rest is a waste of time. Just like discussing those percentages, or girls ratings one to ten, or whose dick is thicker and longer.

[Bimbo Boy]

I'm currently living with my girl in Kiev in an apartment for around two weeks. She is a solid 9 on my books, if not 10. I pay her 5000 $, which is not a small amount here in Kiev from what I know. And I also gave her a Dolce & Gabbana handbag which costed me around 2000.

The problem is, however, that I need like 5 times of sex a day, but it seems she is only willing to offer once or twice, and rarely three. She is quite easily offended as well and gets angry even when I just kindly ask her to have sex with me when she is not willing to. She often claims she is tired from sex or feels pain or shit like that.

Once or twice a day is definitely not enough for me, and the attitude issue is also driving me crazy. We are both good in bed and I give her great orgasms. I just don't understand why she doesn't want to have multiple times of sex each day and is so easy to get triggered. Am I missing anything here? Has anyone had any experience dealing with similar situations?Hello comrade,

I have been travelling to ex CIS countries for 12 years and living in Ukraine for 5 now.

You just have the wrong attitude with this girl. She expects to be with an oligarch that showers her with money. And you are treating her like a soft hearted westerner. In Ukraine men must behave like real men, or you lose respect. Just try force her for sex, and if she refuses, then kick her out.

Just tell her crudely what you want or else she will be kicked-out. There are thousands of girls like her that are ready to sell themselves for iPhones or Louis Vuitton bags.

The photo is such a girl that you can have for USD 2000 a month. 22 years old, university student. 183cm tall.

[Member #4722]

Some people really have a flair for the drama and love the use of numbers. First it is impossible to get anything but a 7 in Kiev until I point out that a 7 is a well above average woman now it's only 6's that is the best anyone can get.

And then to get really dramatic about the percentage of fake profiles on escort sites the guy says 95% but he has to come in with the dramatics with 99.5 despite admittedly not visiting Kiev for about 2.5 years and regardless there would be no way to know the percentage of fake profiles unless you called every one so in fact no one knows and the flair for the drama can be very misleading to other forum members.

[Michi T]

I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.

BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.

I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.What that dude is talking about!? 5'000 $? I have no money and cannot pay money to girls!

About that dude: maybe he is simply not attractive enough for the girl? I have not the slightest idea how that particular dude looks like, how old, how he behaves etc but I met some guys where I am not surprised the girls wanted not have sex or more with them. So, often the ugly man who expects the perfect girl is an illusion.

And again: 5'000 $?! Come on!? Loooool!

[PhotoSlider]

...I point out that 7 is a well above average woman...I remember having just an hour before one of my favorite 6's departure on a commuter train, still 15 minutes away from my Kiev apartment, and I ask her:

- Do you want to come to my place?

At the time we didn't know each other that well, and we had sex only once, one month prior, very very good. She is so sweet and feminine! And now I told her:

- If we don't, it is not going to change anything.

She smiled, and answered in a shy, but confident manner:

- Yes, I want to.

We were next to Andreevska Church. Driver made it in 7 minutes. I gave him 200 UAH, where it was probably 70-90 UAH ride.

We switched to DFK in the back seat, then 3 flights of stairs up, made love in the most sensual way, and continued kissing after. That's when she, with a visible regret sighed, and exclaimed:

- Wish I could stay! Why do I have to go?

- No worries, my dear, I'll see you soon.

Then she expressed her doubts:

- Did we go for this too soon?

- No way! Please don't say that! You are perfect!

Love this girl! She arrived again later during my visit, we met in front of MacD on K, - where else, right? She didn't sleep enough the previous night, studying and then catching the first train early morning. There was a couple hours before going to the concert. We ate at "Puzata Hata" next door, simply because it was fast and acceptable, she is not a glamorous type. Modest young lady with good manners. Then I made sure she went to bed and had a good hour nap before we dressed up and went out.

You can imagine how grateful she was after the concert!

Then at 6 am next morning I had to wake her up, because we had certain plans at 8 am. No complaining, sweet kiss even before she opened her eyes, and then 40 minutes later her naked body, - gorgeous silhouette in the shower room doorway.

She is probably 6 face and body according to common standards, and is so typical for Kiev, yet unique in her own way. When we make love her body looks flawless, her smile is divine, and we understand each other's wishes and desires without any words spoken. Rare find. I give her anywhere between 2000 and 5000 UAH per day with or without sleepover, and we never discuss that part, as she wants to meet again and again. To me on the scale 1 to 10 she is 21.

This is why I keep flying into KBP more frequently and for longer periods with every passing year!

How did I find her? Certainly not on the website. Trial and error, persistence and positive attitude, realistic expectations and respect to young Kiev ladies.

Meet me in Kiev in May, and I'll explain in sufficient detail.

BTW, I just executed a search on kievlady.com for 1600-2100 UAH ladies 18-22 years old, up to 176 high, and In My Not So Humble Opinion more than 50% of the pix returned are real. Doesn't guarantee those would be the girls delivered to your door, but they do exist. Not as a fruit of somebody's diluted imagination, but in reality. 10 thousand posted, 5 thousand of them are easily real. Kiev has more to offer.

Over a long enough statistically representative period of time, say one week, my Viber success rate may go as low as 50% if I am tired, irritated for no reason, and very picky. It goes up to 70-80% if I am content and adventuresome, even while sober. Meaning out of 10 cars reaching my sidewalk I keep and am happy with at least 7 girls. Those dispatchers know me, and want to keep me happy. Mutually beneficial collusion, hehehe.

Cheers!

[PhotoSlider]

What that dude is talking about!? 5'000 $? I have no money and cannot pay money to girls!

About that dude: maybe he is simply not attractive enough for the girl? I have not the slightest idea how that particular dude looks like, how old, how he behaves etc but I met some guys where I am not surprised the girls wanted not have sex or more with them. So, often the ugly man who expects the perfect girl is an illusion.

And again: 5'000 $?! Come on!? Loooool!Antony came to Forum and asked for help. Forum answered with a range of emotions and different degree of usefulness. I believe it has been managed in a rather civilized manner, without belittling Antony.

I personally agree with Bimbo Boy. Fuck her and then kick her out. Or make love and keep. Or kick her out without fucking. Doesn't really matter. How much is paid is Antony's personal business. The key is to stay relaxed, keep the eyes open, multiple options available, and have at least one new girl every other day. This is Kiev after all, there is enough fish in the sea, and they are all of different shapes and colors, some are fast and furious, some are slow and amazing nevertheless. Happy fishing, gentlemen!

[PhotoSlider]

...a girl that you can have for USD 2000 a month. 22 years old, university student. 183cm tall...As long as she is sweet and fulfills every erotic desir.

Average month is 30 days, minus her period and visiting grandparents in the remote village, perhaps 20-23 days. USD100 per day, if you need her every day. USD200 every other day if you alternate. The rest is up to you. Do you want to stick to straight sex in the confines of your residence, or go out and incur more expenses?

Decent looking lady though. Can only imagine her in stiletto high heels towering over me arriving at the Theater! And the best part she is far from being the only one available for our hobby.

[Bimbo Boy]

I understand 5000 $ is a big amount in Kiev. What I don't understand is why the girl still won't behave herself and provide with quality sex when I pay this amount. Maybe got spoiled by being paid too much.

BTW, she even brought her sister to my apartment today, chatting and chilling, leaving me in the room alone. That utterly unacceptable.

I don't like to be tough with girls but I guess I have to.You are very horny and she can't satisfy you. This is why she brought her sister. So go ahead, and bang her sister!

Dude. You are so rookie.

[DramaFree11]

Just met with another girl in Moscow from Ukraine. That is 2 in 2 days, definite pattern, but nobody is leaving Ukraine for better opportunities.

[AntonySun1996]

Hello comrade,

I have been travelling to ex CIS countries for 12 years and living in Ukraine for 5 now.

You just have the wrong attitude with this girl. She expects to be with an oligarch that showers her with money. And you are treating her like a soft hearted westerner. In Ukraine men must behave like real men, or you lose respect. Just try force her for sex, and if she refuses, then kick her out.

Just tell her crudely what you want or else she will be kicked-out. There are thousands of girls like her that are ready to sell themselves for iPhones or Louis Vuitton bags.

The photo is such a girl that you can have for USD 2000 a month. 22 years old, university student. 183cm tall.The girl in the picture is nice but not really my type. I prefer tall busty blondes with pale skin / lighter complexion, while this girl looks a little bit tanned. I might be wrong as it's hard to tell the details of the girls appearance from a picture of her with sunglasses and so much clothes on.

And I have started to adjust my attitudes depending on the situations. I'm not from western culture by the way. I'm from China where female are in an even more dominant position in relationships than their western counterparts. Guys have to make a lot of efforts to please their girlfriends. The situation used to be the opposite, but changed dramatically in recent years when western feminism kicked in.

[AntonySun1996]

Some people really have a flair for the drama and love the use of numbers. First it is impossible to get anything but a 7 in Kiev until I point out that a 7 is a well above average woman now it's only 6's that is the best anyone can get.

And then to get really dramatic about the percentage of fake profiles on escort sites the guy says 95% but he has to come in with the dramatics with 99.5 despite admittedly not visiting Kiev for about 2.5 years and regardless there would be no way to know the percentage of fake profiles unless you called every one so in fact no one knows and the flair for the drama can be very misleading to other forum members.I think for most mongers, who are short-time visitors, 95% and 99.5% fake rates don't make much difference. A few disappointments would be enough to [CodeWord140] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140) them off. Miracles could still happen, though. In rare cases, the switches are sometimes even hotter than baits in B. S.

[AntonySun1996]

What that dude is talking about!? 5'000 $? I have no money and cannot pay money to girls!

About that dude: maybe he is simply not attractive enough for the girl? I have not the slightest idea how that particular dude looks like, how old, how he behaves etc but I met some guys where I am not surprised the girls wanted not have sex or more with them. So, often the ugly man who expects the perfect girl is an illusion.

And again: 5'000 $?! Come on!? Loooool!I'm an average looking Asian guy in my early 20's with quite healthy figure, above-world-average penis size, and decent behaviors. I'm not famous for my looks but I wouldn't say I'm ugly.

[AntonySun1996]

You are very horny and she can't satisfy you. This is why she brought her sister. So go ahead, and bang her sister!Her sister has a boyfriend and she is not quite sexually attractive to me as well.

[PhotoSlider]

You are very horny and she can't satisfy you. This is why she brought her sister. So go ahead, and bang her sister!Maybe.

More likely though it was the usual cock blocking trick. Knowing that Antony "behaves", she decided to have preventive protection.

One of my girls in Kiev is very horny, and she has a sponsor who already proposed marriage to her. She brings her 5 years old son to our meetings. He runs around, kid is a kid. I put Disney cartoons on TV for him in the living room, lock my bedroom door, and fuck her anyway, because subconsciously that's what she wants.

Agree with one thing- be assertive, do not take girls bullshit. I do not mind talking, as long as I get laid sufficiently frequently.

Antony's girl demonstrated repeatedly how selfish she is. As time goes by she will only get worse. Doesn't matter if he spoils her or not, if he tries to bring her to senses or kicks her out. Many Kiev girls are like that. Not all, but many.

I would literally ask the sister to give us some privacy and say the following to the girl herself:

- We didn't make love for a while. Why don't we proceed to my bedroom please?

- Right now?

- Yes please.

- Well. Right now I cannot because blah blah blah.

Then, as Bimbo Boy says, I would smile and directly ask her sister:

- Would you like to make love? Let's go, baby! I've been deprived for way too long already!

And after they both refuse, or even without all that drama, I would state:

- Sorry ladies, I have an unexpected meeting, and need to go now. Would you like me to arrange for your taxi or prefer taking subway?

Paying for her rent? Having common future? No effing way!

Kick her out, and call KEC. Or even call KEC in her presence and ask for Margarita, or Katya, or Liza. Fuck two in a row, or have a threesome after threesome until every erotic desire is satisfied, and there is no strength anymore).

I had a girl that tried to come to me when she needed a place to stay overnight, while having her period. Upon realizing that I made up her bed in the living room, and called my regular dispatcher asking for two girls to choose from. When the taxi arrived, I asked her to go with me and help choosing which girl I should keep. She looked at the car, and showed some attitude going for a late dinner instead. Next her visit a month later we fucked no problem and no pay, only 200 UAH taxi money after. You may ask why did I keep her? Because I enjoy spending time with her besides just mating. But do not take no bullshit.

It's a cultural Ukrainian thing, girls hunt for the best suitor with least possible concession on their own part. But I do not position myself as an ATM to get milked. Not in Kiev.

[PhotoSlider]

...I'm not from western culture by the way. I'm from China where female are in an even more dominant position in relationships than their western counterparts. Guys have to make a lot of efforts to please their girlfriends. The situation used to be the opposite, but changed dramatically in recent years when western feminism kicked in.According to some estimates:

"The gender ratio in China appears to be falling, from a high of 121 boys born for every 100 girls in 2004 to about 113.5 boys in 2015, according to official figures. Worldwide, the ratio is about 104 boys to 100 girls. ".

In Chinese society boys are expected to take care of their parents, while girls would leave them after marriage. This results in more male babies being born and raised.

15 to 64 years ratio is 1.05 male to female (2015 est.) Total population of China is 1. 4 billion. Therefore no less than 10 million capable horny men have no chance. Imagine that in a less populated country.

I can only concur that Antony doesn't make anything up. I witnessed but didn't quite experienced that dominant behavior by young Chinese women in respective western diaspora firsthand.

[PhotoSlider]

Her sister has a boyfriend and she is not quite sexually attractive to me as well.She has a boyfriend, so what! I had a girl repeatedly, who in my presence was getting SMS messages from the contact labeled "My Love". I will keep away more intimate details.

The fact that the sister wasn't your type is another story. I would still overcame my feelings though and fucked her as a matter of principle.

[Power550]

I am going to be in Kiev for two week in August and thought I was going to use agency girls / websites / clubs to get different women.

I was planning on spending 500 us on girls. I am thinking now if I could find a stunner (8+) just to giver her the 500 a day to be with me the entire time.

This would save time having to look for them / having to turn away bait and switches.

Thoughts on this and how would you all recommend finding someone?

[AntonySun1996]

According to some estimates:

"The gender ratio in China appears to be falling, from a high of 121 boys born for every 100 girls in 2004 to about 113.5 boys in 2015, according to official figures. Worldwide, the ratio is about 104 boys to 100 girls. ".

In Chinese society boys are expected to take care of their parents, while girls would leave them after marriage. This results in more male babies being born and raised.

15 to 64 years ratio is 1.05 male to female (2015 est.) Total population of China is 1. 4 billion. Therefore no less than 10 million capable horny men have no chance. Imagine that in a less populated country.

I can only concur that Antony doesn't make anything up. I witnessed but didn't quite experienced that dominant behavior by young Chinese women in respective western diaspora firsthand.The statistics are pretty accurate I think, and I guess the change in gender structure of new born babies has something to do with the decreasing level of control on child birth. Ten years ago when the infamous One Child Policy was strictly enforced, a typical Chinese couple would try their best to make sure they will have a male baby. Many girls were illegally aborted before birth. Now since the policy has been abolished, the parent have more choices, and many don't mind giving birth to both a boy and a girl.

I am not sure how balanced the gender structure of the whole population has become, though, as the official statistics don't include the undocumented people illegally born in previous years particularly in rural, most of whom are male.

Many of the single men who have trouble finding local wives are buying women from Vietnam and other third-world countries in South East Asia. They used to target village women in underdeveloped regions in China, but most have turned overseas after major police crackdowns on [CodeWord908] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908).


I witnessed but didn't quite experienced that dominant behavior by young Chinese women in respective western diaspora firsthand.The Chinese girl are famous for their double standards when dating with Chinese guys and foreign guys. This phenomenon is being continuously discussed on Chinese social media.

Typically, a Chinese guy is supposed to have a self-owned residence, a car, a decent amount of deposits, etc. To marry a girl, but generally speaking these prerequisites doesn't apply to foreigners especially white foreigners in China. The foreigners are still more desirable than local men in the dating market, and Chinese girls usually doesn't show dominant behaviours when in relationships with foreigners.

[AntonySun1996]

She has a boyfriend, so what! I had a girl repeatedly, who in my presence was getting SMS messages from the contact labeled "My Love". I will keep away more intimate details.

The fact that the sister wasn't your type is another story. I would still overcame my feelings though and fucked her as a matter of principle.And I forgot to mention that I have already been introduced to her husband. Fucking her would make the situation a little bit embarrassing, and wouldn't leave good impressions on my girl as well.

[BangNibiru]

Hello brothers,

Is there any gentlemen like to help me how do go about safe and unforgettable GFE experience in Kiev for a day or two. Because I will be visiting for five days only. Also for kievlady site how do I contact a women as contact are not real I called upon them. May be if I can get a simple way like direct independent numbers of girls from you guys will be highly appreciable.

Trust me our Delhiite forum is made to help each other if you guys visit India anytime soon let's forget about me but other member s too will give you the spice of India if you have interest in North Indian girls.

Thank you


Validating trustworthiness of Ukrainian websites pictures should never be an objective of a monger in Kiev.

I do the opposite. Dispatcher gives me the pic, name, hourly rate, and parameters of the girl. I go to kievlady.com and search to get more pictures, if she is there, and check if there is a substantial markup. So far I found 8 beauties. Never had a fake picture, but again, that is beyond the point.

Kievlady.com has almost 10 thousand girls, some are not even present. Indeed, ordering from website frequently leads to bait and switch. But how can one reliably estimate the percentage of fake pic?

It is one thing to hate Kiev, and provide opinionated perception of reality without visiting the city for years. It is another to try giving statistically representative estimate based on field research.

GIA / KEC has 100% real pictures. Some even have real faces. IMHO Kievlady has at least 10-20% of real photos, if not more. So it is not 99 or 95%. It is 80-90% fake, maybe even less. But that's irrelevant because I would trust to some extent the pix sent to me directly via Viber from the dispatcher I know. I would certainly trust it more than kievlady.com. I would also trust the actual face of a girl in the taxi on my sidewalk, and trust her naked body in my bedroom. The rest is a waste of time. Just like discussing those percentages, or girls ratings one to ten, or whose dick is thicker and longer.

[Member #4722]

I am going to be in Kiev for two week in August and thought I was going to use agency girls / websites / clubs to get different women.

I was planning on spending 500 us on girls. I am thinking now if I could find a stunner (8+) just to giver her the 500 a day to be with me the entire time.

This would save time having to look for them / having to turn away bait and switches.

Thoughts on this and how would you all recommend finding someone?Finding a hot girl in Kiev always takes some work but if you do find one start negotiating at way less than 500 no wonder the girls here are getting spoiled.

[DramaFree11]

I am going to be in Kiev for two week in August and thought I was going to use agency girls / websites / clubs to get different women.

I was planning on spending 500 us on girls. I am thinking now if I could find a stunner (8+) just to giver her the 500 a day to be with me the entire time.

This would save time having to look for them / having to turn away bait and switches.

Thoughts on this and how would you all recommend finding someone?If your budget is truely $500 there are better destinations, for high Quality girls. Difficult for Foreign Guys to get anything above a 6 in Kiev, money will only help.

Also, August is a bad time to travel to Kiev, most the girls will be on holidays.

[Misterxxx]

I am going to be in Kiev for two week in August and thought I was going to use agency girls / websites / clubs to get different women.

I was planning on spending 500 us on girls. I am thinking now if I could find a stunner (8+) just to giver her the 500 a day to be with me the entire time.

This would save time having to look for them / having to turn away bait and switches.

Thoughts on this and how would you all recommend finding someone?August is not the best time to look for a girl in Kiev. Holiday season. The "stunners" will certainly have another sponsor. Or do you think they sit around all month waiting for you? Minimum they go to Odessa. To the sea.

On the other hand, you are pushing up the prices with your offer. If you are looking for a woman through sites like Mamba, even the average "5" will present itself as a "stunner". And in the end, the other men hear the following sentences: "I have been offered 500 a day, 200 are not enough anymore, and 100 are considered as a nasty joke. " Unfortunately, that's the attitude Ukrainians have. At least until they really have no money and are in need. This usually happens at Christmas time and in the dead season in winter.

[PhotoSlider]

Trust me our Delhiite forum is made to help each other if you guys visit India anytime soon let's forget about me but other member s too will give you the spice of India if you have interest in North Indian girls.Indian ladies are great indeed. I doubt though that anybody from this Forum would go to Delhi instead of Kiev any time soon. No offense meant.

[Power550]

If your budget is truely $500 there are better destinations, for high Quality girls. Difficult for Foreign Guys to get anything above a 6 in Kiev, money will only help.

Also, August is a bad time to travel to Kiev, most the girls will be on holidays.I have a few weeks off in August, I am really only into white women. Where would you recommend for a two week sponsor situation?

I would need the place to be interesting on its own, not just for the women.

[DramaFree11]

I have a few weeks off in August, I am really only into white women. Where would you recommend for a two week sponsor situation?

I would need the place to be interesting on its own, not just for the women.Moscow rocks, but not sure about August.

[DramaFree11]

Finding a hot girl in Kiev always takes some work but if you do find one start negotiating at way less than 500 no wonder the girls here are getting spoiled.Just will not happen. You will be lucky to even find a hot girl, you will have to pay that type of money. Boils down to Supply and Demand. They simply are not available to foreign guys, especially this time of year.

[Misterxxx]

I have a few weeks off in August, I am really only into white women. Where would you recommend for a two week sponsor situation?

I would need the place to be interesting on its own, not just for the women.You have already asked in the Kiev, Moscow and Dnipro (petrovsk) forums. You wrote there that you are in its early 20's. You're ready to pay $ 500 a day. You do not only want to fuck, you also want to have action around it. You are already planning for August. Not for a trip next week.

Summary: You are young, you have money. At that age, getting a girl for less money should not be a problem. Or even for free. Do you look so shitty that you have to offer a woman $ 500 a night? Or do you have no self-confidence?

Do you think the difference between a $ 100 woman or a $ 500 woman is so huge? I've written here once before: I know a woman who worked 4-5 years ago for $ 50. Today she wants $ 300 for a meeting. Why. ? Not because the girl is much better now. Just because people are willing to pay more.

My advice. August. ? Forget Kiev. A summer in the city is hot and uncomfortable. Or would you go to New York in the summer? Buy a ticket to Odessa. Find a good hotel or apartment by the sea. There are enough beautiful women in the summer. If you do not find a woman on the beach, then go to the disco in the evening (Ibiza, Itaka, Bono). For $ 500 you will certainly find a very beautiful woman there.

Why do you want to plan everything before? 14 days each $ 500 is $ 7,000. You want to spend the money on a woman you do not know. Maybe this woman is not really your type after two days. Maybe you already know after an hour that you do not fit together. You are sitting alone in Kiev. For the rest of the time. Without a plan.

[AntonySun1996]

I am going to be in Kiev for two week in August and thought I was going to use agency girls / websites / clubs to get different women.

I was planning on spending 500 us on girls. I am thinking now if I could find a stunner (8+) just to giver her the 500 a day to be with me the entire time.

This would save time having to look for them / having to turn away bait and switches.

Thoughts on this and how would you all recommend finding someone?The mongering scenes in Kiev are complicated and it's difficult to simply tell you what is the best way to find girls, as everyone has his own preferences based on his experiences.

I would suggest you to take your time and read the first 50 pages of this forum (and take notes if necessary). By doing so, you will get a general idea of the current Kiev mongering scenes and will probably figure out which method suits you.

[PhotoSlider]

...Why do you want to plan everything before? 14 days each $ 500 is $ 7,000. You want to spend the money on a woman you do not know. Maybe this woman is not really your type after two days. Maybe you already know after an hour that you do not fit together. You are sitting alone in Kiev. For the rest of the time. Without a plan.Totally agree with Misterxxx comments on Power550 questions.

Ukrainian girls are not your Hilton hotel room or AirBnb apartment that can be rented for 2 weeks with an assured service level. Approach of the monger in question is similar to somebody's buying hot stock on the financial market, and expecting guaranteed high yield return just because he gave a lot of money. So fucking what? Free market economy doesn't care about expectations. There are certain trends that can be studied though. Preparation, while understanding those trends, is helpful.

My advice is to diversify the investments. Order 2-3 KEC / GIA girls every day upon arrival for 3-4 days, identify the good ones, then negotiate an agreement with a few favorite ones directly. Otherwise there is a risk of getting stuck with a greedy that is not even interested in a repeated customer, and skillful in maximizing the extraction of cash, food, entertainment and gifts.

Kozerog identified a perfect beneficiary for his requirements. He doesn't overpay, he is more than happy with her, apparently so is she. It did take him time and a few tries though to find that young lady.

Paying 7000 USD to a single girl, that one never met before in Kiev, and expecting her to deliver in an impeccable manner day after day for 2 weeks is a wishful thinking. It is not only overpaying, IMO chances of success are less than 30%, even more like 10%. I paid $250/ day to a 9-10 girl for 10-11 days straight, but that was preceded by meeting her twice for multiple hours, and extensive research with a couple dozen other girls before we committed. She was not the only one during those 10 days anyway.

On the surface it seems that committing to a single girl in Kiev helps to simplify. The reality is actually the opposite. Having one or two or even more backup options helps to run the top priority choices in a relaxed manner, without getting disappointed too much when things do not always work out as anticipated. Didn't fuck the beloved one in the morning, contact few others, and someone will oblige.

August in Kiev is doable, but September is so much better. Not muggy, and not cold yet. Freshman students are learning the trade, many more possibilities.

Right now is tough for girls, because there are not so many tourists in Kiev but living expenses for girls themselves are the same. I had multiple desperate requests for wire transfers, that I deferred.

If KEC is too much money then get on mamba. I know for a fact that there are success stories there, even within the last year, despite of what the naysayers and whining losers persistently describe here on Forum without visiting Kiev.

[PhotoSlider]

Finding a hot girl in Kiev always takes some work but if you do find one start negotiating at way less than 500 no wonder the girls here are getting spoiled.Correct, takes some work and time, but it's very much doable. Hot girls are everywhere in Kiev, and for much less money.

Easy solution is take that 7 grand and go to German FKK.

Offering $500 a day or $7000 per 2 weeks is actually counterproductive in Kiev. The monger doing this would immediately be identified as a candidate for milking, and will not be respected.

Kozerog feeds his designated beneficiary in modest increments. He also visits Kiev regularly, and his thinking is well balanced, decision making is realistic. I would definitely trust his approach. I also met a few gentlemen in Kiev over the last year, that are successful with hot ladies. Jymondor is another great example of having amazing time with super hot ladies in Kiev. His methodology is posted on this Forum, and I concur that his ladies are exceptional, because I met them in person. They have great appearance, attitude, skills, and are rather affordable.

There are many more examples of success, as well as failure and whining.

2 weeks is more than sufficient to get laid in a very satisfying manner. My method is established contacts plus trial and error plus fast recovery upon failure without complaining.

August is too far away to start collecting contacts now. Most of Kiev ladies forget me and stop responding in a few weeks after my departure from KBP.

I wish I had this much money for two weeks right now. Well, I did in the past. The funny part about my prior adventures in Kiev that no matter how much money I had, all of it was gone except for $100-300 in the end. Then I learned from Kozerog and another well seasoned Forum member, I relaxed and stopped chasing new contacts, relying on existing ones, and adding some fresh, but not as vigorously. By doing that quality of my life in Kiev improved significantly, perhaps three-fold, while expenses went down at least twice, compared to 2017, and five-fold compared to 2016.

No way I would spend $7000 in 2 weeks on a single girl. I did $2600 on 9-10 girl for 11 days, but there are so many great ones available and willing that it becomes disservice to those girls and to myself to fuck only one. Even if fucking is intermingled with sightseeing, dining and attending other cultural events. Half a year ago for 196000 UAH (7200 USD) I had few dozen girls. 70% of them were at least fuckable or better. 20% of them I liked very much. With five of those girls I am in permanent contact now. Why should one limit himself? The more, the merrier! As friend of mine said in 2010:

- More wine and fresh women!

[PhotoSlider]

And I forgot to mention that I have already been introduced to her husband. Fucking her would make the situation a little bit embarrassing, and wouldn't leave good impressions on my girl as well.That's where we differ, Antony.

I had sex with a girl that was getting ready for her wedding party. Along the way she was confiding in me, asking for advice on certain matters related to her beloved groom. I helped her substantially in many ways, besides money and gifts, because I think she is a decent person and a great young woman. We are still in contact after her marriage. I am happy for her, and for her husband. He is surely the lucky one.

If she decides to consent with me in the near future, I will not refuse. And I will not think badly of her, or her now-husband, or even myself. We are all adults, as long as we play it safe and with mutual respect, polygamy has always been de facto way of life in Kiev. I do not think I am cheating on any of my girlfriends in Kiev. Neither do some of them. Any attempts to limit my freedom would be counterproductive.

In October I had the lady that let me BBBJ, CIM, Greek and more for 2000 UAH overnight including encounter before the dinner. She once pointed out that there is a long black hair in the bath tab, that is not hers. She didn't make a scene, but alluded to the fact that I obviously didn't prepare well enough for her visit. She said she realizes I want to see other women, but asked to keep it away from her attention. I politely agreed, because I totally respect her feelings. But after another visit she became even more controlling and attempted to patronize, so I started having scheduling conflicts and couldn't see her anymore. That's my polite way of kicking them out, as I do not like confrontations.

[PhotoSlider]

The mongering scenes in Kiev are complicated and it's difficult to simply tell you what is the best way to find girls, as everyone has his own preferences based on his experiences.

I would suggest you to take your time and read the first 50 pages of this forum (and take notes if necessary). By doing so, you will get a general idea of the current Kiev mongering scenes and will probably figure out which method suits you.Golden words!

There are no Pimps on this Forum, but sufficient very useful info has been exchanged and posted.

[TinyHippo]

Seems a lot of you guys that are complaining are looking more for love or serious attention. Money will get her to fuck you, but it will not make her interested in you if you are boring and expect her to just lay in bed for six hours. That is called sleeping. Kiev is not some miracle city just because you have a little bit of money. It is just a city for people that love Slavic girls and they are much easier to get because of their low salaries. Girls in Kyiv do not want a boring guy just like any other city. They will just be willing to overlook your age or looks for less money than most other European girls.

[IndusMint]

Just returned from 3 days in Kiev, the girls were plenty and as expected, aged 20 to 30 , but I have to admit they prefer no turks, no indians, no israelis, pm me for contacts.

[Walky23]

Gives me a different perspective about Kiev. Last time I went to Kiev. I wasn't prepared. Couldn't utilise the opportunity. I was mainly relying on backpage.com - lot of catfish.


Correct, takes some work and time, but it's very much doable. Hot girls are everywhere in Kiev, and for much less money.

Easy solution is take that 7 grand and go to German FKK.

Offering $500 a day or $7000 per 2 weeks is actually counterproductive in Kiev. The monger doing this would immediately be identified as a candidate for milking, and will not be respected.

Kozerog feeds his designated beneficiary in modest increments. He also visits Kiev regularly, and his thinking is well balanced, decision making is realistic. I would definitely trust his approach. I also met a few gentlemen in Kiev over the last year, that are successful with hot ladies. Jymondor is another great example of having amazing time with super hot ladies in Kiev. His methodology is posted on this Forum, and I concur that his ladies are exceptional, because I met them in person. They have great appearance, attitude, skills, and are rather affordable.

There are many more examples of success, as well as failure and whining.

[DramaFree11]

Just returned from 3 days in Kiev, the girls were plenty and as expected, aged 20 to 30 , but I have to admit they prefer no turks, no indians, no israelis, pm me for contacts.I found the opposite m. Ukraine People are very tolerant and open.

[AntonySun1996]

Seems a lot of you guys that are complaining are looking more for love or serious attention. Money will get her to fuck you, but it will not make her interested in you if you are boring and expect her to just lay in bed for six hours. That is called sleeping. Kiev is not some miracle city just because you have a little bit of money. It is just a city for people that love Slavic girls and they are much easier to get because of their low salaries. Girls in Kyiv do not want a boring guy just like any other city. They will just be willing to overlook your age or looks for less money than most other European girls.Language barrier is a major problem here. Sometimes even if you are interesting, your limited language stills will prevent the girls from finding you interesting.

[Riina]

. Girls in Kyiv do not want a boring guy just like any other city. They will just be willing to overlook your age or looks for less money than most other European girls.If you mean they are looking for an interesting guy, I completely disagree with you. They are looking for a man that will feed them and keep feeding them and then feed them some more. And if you stop, bye bye relationship. Absolutely true about overlooking age and looks. But you have to be the kind of man that accepts himself as a walking ATM. You have to be understanding to the fact they'll never appreciate anything you give. Most men don't have the strength or the sense of reality to play the cards in their favor.

[DramaFree11]

Language barrier is a major problem here. Sometimes even if you are interesting, your limited language stills will prevent the girls from finding you interesting.I had very few issues with language. They understand English when they want. Google Translator work great is there is a problem.

[Member #4722]

I found the opposite m. Ukraine People are very tolerant and open.Haha give me a break. Things are slowly changing but Ukraine is still one of the more racist countries in the world.

[DramaFree11]

Haha give me a break. Things are slowly changing but Ukraine is still one of the more racist countries in the world.Times are changing, I am the positive person now. Ukraine's are very tolerant.

[DramaFree11]

Looks like the only one on the Kiev thread that banged or hooked up with Ukraine girls this week is me. What a Surprise!

[PhotoSlider]

Things are slowly changing but Ukraine is still one of the more racist countries in the world.Racism is certainly strong within the Ukrainian society, and post by IndusMint clearly shows that. I personally want nothing to do with his girls, because they differentiate based on the basis of religion and ethnicity.

At the same time slowly, but a society strata is emerging where even working girls are much more tolerant towards most anybody who treats them nicely and pays, including Turks, Azerbaijani, Georgian, middle Eastern, and many others. That is certainly a new development, more cosmopolitan.

I would still be cautious, even downtown, especially during big European football events, when lots of idiots flood the streets and bars.

[PhotoSlider]

If you mean they are looking for an interesting guy, I completely disagree with you. They are looking for a man that will feed them and keep feeding them and then feed them some more. And if you stop, bye bye relationship. Absolutely true about overlooking age and looks. But you have to be the kind of man that accepts himself as a walking ATM. You have to be understanding to the fact they'll never appreciate anything you give. Most men don't have the strength or the sense of reality to play the cards in their favor.Riina,

I would position this differently:

1. If there are two middle aged guys, not quite fat and ugly, but not Karl Lagerfeld types either. Both go to ATM and extract crispy bills at roughly the same rate. One is boring, and another one is fun to be with for the girl.

Do I even have to ask the rhetorical question at this point?

2. Why is it that one out of six or so girls at Rio Strip Club refuses to go with me for $300 but does so with other men? Because I do not interest her. And that's perfectly fine, I do not feel less masculine over that.

If everything else is approximately the same, and there is a choice, then Ukrainian actresses prefer having a good time. Perhaps I misunderstood, and you include entertainment, cash, gifts and wining-dining in the definition of ladies being fed.

[AntonySun1996]

I had very few issues with language. They understand English when they want. Google Translator work great is there is a problem.Yeah google translate works fine until you want to have conversations with your girl on non-trifle topics.

[TinyHippo]

If you mean they are looking for an interesting guy, I completely disagree with you. They are looking for a man that will feed them and keep feeding them and then feed them some more. And if you stop, bye bye relationship. Absolutely true about overlooking age and looks. But you have to be the kind of man that accepts himself as a walking ATM. You have to be understanding to the fact they'll never appreciate anything you give. Most men don't have the strength or the sense of reality to play the cards in their favor.Then you are trying to date a pro which makes no sense or the other option is that you offer only money. Mongering is a fun game. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but there are thousands of girls in Kyiv. All I know is that I have banged what would be impossible in my home country for free or little money (200€) while being an average looking 40 yo with average western EU salary.

[TinyHippo]

Haha give me a break. Things are slowly changing but Ukraine is still one of the more racist countries in the world.I am mostly East Asian and have spent six months in Ukraine while dating a Ukrainian girl. 100% no problems in Odessa or Kyiv. I think if you are not seeking too much attention or causing trouble, you will not have a problem.

[Riina]

2. Why is it that one out of six or so girls at Rio Strip Club refuses to go with me for $300 but does so with other men? Because I do not interest her. And that's perfectly fine, I do not feel less masculine over that..Because you're not a local that can supply a steady stream of support. Their's nothing interesting about a transaction with a tourist at Rio. Show yourself with the qualities of a good sponsor and you'll have their attention.

[Riina]

http://classyladiesofchicago.escortbook.com/model-pretty-cute-eva-33495

I know it doesn't belong, but here's a beautiful Ukrainian girl in Chicago. Eva opened up to me. She comes from a good family in Kiev, but she's the black sheep. Eva is the kind that has just come to realize that she'll need a sponsor to get by. Unfortunately, I'm already booked up playing daddy. 99% of noob travelers will visit Ukraine and never meet a girl like Eva.

[PleaseTease]

I am interested in advice on massage in Kiev. I am looking for something like Tantra or a massage where you are teased for the whole duration of the massage.

I am more looking for a erotic massage than a body to body massage, it is more important that the hand massage is good, but still with a attractive girl.

Also the place needs to be nice and fresh.

[DramaFree11]

http://classyladiesofchicago.escortbook.com/model-pretty-cute-eva-33495

I know it doesn't belong, but here's a beautiful Ukrainian girl in Chicago. Eva opened up to me. She comes from a good family in Kiev, but she's the black sheep. Eva is the kind that has just come to realize that she'll need a sponsor to get by. Unfortunately, I'm already booked up playing daddy. 99% of noob travelers will visit Ukraine and never meet a girl like Eva.100% of the guys will not, those type girls left 3-5 years ago. A few guys are hanging onto the old days, it will never be the same and the decline will continue.

[Member #4722]

http://classyladiesofchicago.escortbook.com/model-pretty-cute-eva-33495

I know it doesn't belong, but here's a beautiful Ukrainian girl in Chicago. Eva opened up to me. She comes from a good family in Kiev, but she's the black sheep. Eva is the kind that has just come to realize that she'll need a sponsor to get by. Unfortunately, I'm already booked up playing daddy. 99% of noob travelers will visit Ukraine and never meet a girl like Eva.You mean average looking girl who has half her leg covered with ugly tattoo that charges $350 for an hour? Seems like noob travelers would be lucky to avoid a girl like this.

[Riina]

Then you are trying to date a pro which makes no sense or the other option is that you offer only money. Mongering is a fun game. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but there are thousands of girls in Kyiv. All I know is that I have banged what would be impossible in my home country for free or little money (200) while being an average looking 40 yo with average western EU salary.No pros for me. Think about it logically. Relationships are financially based when significantly younger Ukrainians date older men. Why risk shame when a young hottie has all the young dick in the world. I've seen the situation many times where the girl never asks for money and plays good traditional girl to the unsuspecting fool. Which is basically nothing more than an exploratory attempt to see who you are and what can be extracted in the big picture.

Tons of young Western guys always get connected to girlfriends in Ukraine. What really happens most of the time? Guy goes to Ukraine. Guy spends a few months developing a relationship. Girl gives guy opportunity to see what he is about. Girl sees guy can't change her life for better. Girl starts showing no interest. Guy is completely confused as to what happened. He thought he was going to get a free in house pussy. LOL.

Believe what you want fellas. Freebies everywhere in Ukraine for grown up men. Yeah, for sure.

[Stevie69]

So what's interesting I have learned is with Ukrainians, there's no such thing as a "done deal" or a fixed price. Though this can go both ways. With this girl, picture attached this time, we agreed on $300 US a day for 10 days, and she agreed to spend her time not at work with me. Like a couple I guess. But now that I have seen her, and she attaches some value to me (I'm the right age range to possibly marry her, am single, live in the US and can offer a visa, not terrible looking and am a white dude), suddenly she's both trying to squeeze me to buy her thousands of dollars of washing equipment and furniture and offering lower prices when I show signs of considering other girls. It's rather interesting how bipolar it is.Girls lose all respect for you if you make it clear that you are a fool. I do not know how much she makes in her regular job, if she has one, but you are giving her as much as she earns in a month every day or two. They might stay with you but only as the money keeps flowing. She does not like you, nor is she thinking of marrying you. Well, maybe she might marry you and take you for half your stuff 3 months later with the help of a shark divorce lawyer. She will however, respect the divorce lawyer.

[PhotoSlider]

http://classyladiesofchicago.escortbook.com/model-pretty-cute-eva-33495

I know it doesn't belong, but here's a beautiful Ukrainian girl in Chicago. Eva opened up to me. She comes from a good family in Kiev, but she's the black sheep. Eva is the kind that has just come to realize that she'll need a sponsor to get by. Unfortunately, I'm already booked up playing daddy. 99% of noob travelers will visit Ukraine and never meet a girl like Eva.It does belong here, Riina. We are global mongers. It certainly belongs much more than discussing Ukrainian girls dramatically deprived of attention, and fleeing in herds to Moscow leaving Kiev empty and full of inferior but very expensive women rated no higher than mediocre 6.

Interesting that Eva describes her English as good, and Ukrainian as basic. Easy to believe, because Russian is still the common language in Kiev.

Great to see that ladies like Eva withstand the pressure from CPD. But risks and dangers are part of our hobby everywhere.

Riina, it is good to have such a great offering for locals. I do not know your appetite, so let's say I decided to make an equivalent of a 2 weeks adult Walt Disney amusement for myself in Chicago. $350 an hour is steep. Let's say the girl agrees to do this business transaction cutting the middlemen out. I usually pay 75%, where regular cut is no more than 40%. So it becomes $250. I need 2 girls a day minimum. I'm sure you know where I'm going, and it doesn't really apply to you, but allow me to elaborate please.

$500 x14=$7,000.

Assuming there's a free and secure landing pad, no need for vacation / time off, one girl is taken upon waking up before having your coffee, while still in pajamas and slippers)) and the other girl arrives in her mini, high heels, and sexy lingerie after you finished your evening commute, or shutdown all the computers in the home office.

Cheapest round trip to Kiev from Chicago was $730 in 2018. Usually it is $1,100-1,700. Let's take $1,500.

$50 a night at a decent downtown AirBnb makes another $700.

Let's say I invite a mix of my regulars plus a dozen of random call girls. 2000 UAH an hour or overnight is a typical pay. Let's say I have no more than 2 girls every day and spend slightly more lavishly than in Chicago, keeping them for 2 hours each. 8000 UAH is about $300 these days. Total of $4200 on keeping me a company over 2 weeks.

The total travel + lodging + companionship = $6,400 vs. $,7000 above.

I know Eva & Co are more convenient for you, and that is difficult to argue with. It is also much more affordable, if you do not splurge in the manner of my erotic escapades over multiple days. I definitely value the availability of Ukrainian ladies in Chicago around the year, while I visit Kiev only few times a year.

Well, "Suum cuique" - to each his own. I doubt I would be able to concentrate on my work if Ukrainian girls were that easily accessible in my city.

Surely thanks for sharing!

[PhotoSlider]

Because you're not a local that can supply a steady stream of support. Their's nothing interesting about a transaction with a tourist at Rio. Show yourself with the qualities of a good sponsor and you'll have their attention.How come then one out of those six girls is still seeing me for free every time I visit Kiev over the last 3 years? And another one gave me her phone number on the first try even though I didn't order her that night? We met multiple times outside Rio. For the latter one I paid, but it was affordable, and lots of fun.

I'll give you a hint. Both girls were newbies at Rio, and didn't really belong there. They quit shortly.

It is up to each monger to think of himself as a boring guy that buys services, or a supercool gentleman that makes life of women around him much more worthwhile. If anything, Ukrainian actresses are good at inflating the self-confidence of those boys that need make-believe while visiting or even residing.

[Stevie69]

I have read a good portion of the thread with great pleasure. I live in Sweden, as my avatar suggest, and I am not a seasoned monger.

Kiev is a short, and cheap, flight from Stockholm. I have never visited Ukraine before, I mostly travel inside Sweden for work and sometimes to the European cities for work and for leisure. I am 45 years old and reasonably fit.

I created a profile on Mamba. I put in a phrase in English telling that I am a businessman travelling in Europe that want some intellectual, and maybe, physically stimuli when travelling thru Kiev. I told my real age, told I am a bit overweight (80 kg /174 cm), high income (I suppose I have in comparison to Ukraine), put a nice photo of myself in a swimming pool drinking a Pina Colada and gave it a shot. I sent out a generic "Hi" to approx 20 females from 25-45 that accepted my age and spoke English (according to their profile).

Most did not answer at all, some put me on ignore and a few answered with bad English.

One that answered was 35 and directly started to try to control me, asking for photos in different angles and asked why I was bothering her. I told her that I wanted some company when in Kiev and she sent me a Viber number and told me to contact her when in Kiev.I think there is a lack of confidence here. They want wolves, not dogs, not even dogs with pedigrees. 80 does not seem too overweight for 174. A 40 year old woman is a waste of time. You should have asked he if she had a daughter, or a niece. If she did not want to walk, you could have suggested she spent all day on her back.

They love it when you spend money on them. 6800 shoes? That is more than one months's wages! She would immediately sell them!

[Stevie69]

I have posted this about 7 years ago. I found it somewhere in the internet. It is still so much truth about it, I still have to laugh reading this..I agree, except for the bit about sexy outfits. That is the beauty of Kiev, for the novices, it is impossible to tell the hookers from the non-pros (or semi-pros).

[Stevie69]

What that dude is talking about!? 5'000 $? I have no money and cannot pay money to girls!

About that dude: maybe he is simply not attractive enough for the girl? I have not the slightest idea how that particular dude looks like, how old, how he behaves etc but I met some guys where I am not surprised the girls wanted not have sex or more with them. So, often the ugly man who expects the perfect girl is an illusion.

And again: 5'000 $?! Come on!? Loooool!Yes. I do not know what this guy is doing. It seems he is wasting obscene amounts of money and getting very little in return. These girls just do not respect fools. Well, no women, ever, anywhere in the world, respects a fool.

For 2000 UAH a pop, I can get extremely good girls, ranging from 18 to 36, students to milfs, pros and non-pros. If they know you are a possible repeat and long term client, good service is assured. For 5000 USD (why is he negotiating in foreign currencies! Which is the equivalent of 134,000 UAH, I could get 67 girls. Surely among the 67 there would a little of everything (short and tall, slim and curvy, teens and milfs, enthusiastic performers and apathetic pros, and everything in between. Variety is the spice of life, and among them a couple of dozen worth repeating and worth joining your regular" list.

[Stevie69]

Update.

We talked about this issue and she explained that she had bad mood and was unwilling to have sex because her periods are coming, and her body hurts. This is understandable. Just going to see how will she behave after her periods.

To answer your question. I can afford 500 per fuck, but the problem is that when we agreed on the meeting, what I expected was to fuck as many times as I want every day.For how much you are paying her, she should be obligated to find you a substitute, a professional substitute, at her own expense, whenever you happen to be in the mood for some action. She would pay her friends 100 to 200 to do it with you, and she would still make more money than if she had a job.

[Michi T]

If you mean they are looking for an interesting guy, I completely disagree with you. They are looking for a man that will feed them and keep feeding them and then feed them some more. And if you stop, bye bye relationship. Absolutely true about overlooking age and looks. But you have to be the kind of man that accepts himself as a walking ATM. You have to be understanding to the fact they'll never appreciate anything you give. Most men don't have the strength or the sense of reality to play the cards in their favor.Hmmm. I am not so sure about the requirement of being a walking ATM. I am back home in Europe and still have regular contact with three girls from last year. I am a poor man and I am a very empty ATM. But as a general rule, I would probably agree with you. In most cases.

[Michi T]

Then you are trying to date a pro which makes no sense or the other option is that you offer only money. Mongering is a fun game. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, but there are thousands of girls in Kyiv. All I know is that I have banged what would be impossible in my home country for free or little money (200) while being an average looking 40 yo with average western EU salary.In this point 100 % agreement.

[PhotoSlider]

Hmmm. I am not so sure about the requirement of being a walking ATM. I am back home in Europe and still have regular contact with three girls from last year. I am a poor man and I am a very empty ATM. But as a general rule, I would probably agree with you. In most cases.If I am not mistaken, you are substantially younger.

[Misterxxx]

Hmmm. I am not so sure about the requirement of being a walking ATM. I am back home in Europe and still have regular contact with three girls from last year. I am a poor man and I am a very empty ATM. But as a general rule, I would probably agree with you. In most cases.In fact, you will not meet with the girls and say, "I am poor. " And you will not say that you live in a cheap hostel. You will wear good clothes (fake or original). You are playing with a new iPhone (of course only purchased on contract / credit). Visit a good restaurant with the girls. You play a role. You are an actor. The girls believe you. The girls believe that you have money. That's all. If you honestly say, "I have absolutely no money", then you will see how many of the three girls still want to have contact with you.

[Michi T]

If I am not mistaken, you are substantially younger.Not so sure about it. Not so young, 40+.

[Michi T]

In fact, you will not meet with the girls and say, "I am poor. " And you will not say that you live in a cheap hostel. You will wear good clothes (fake or original). You are playing with a new iPhone (of course only purchased on contract / credit). Visit a good restaurant with the girls. You play a role. You are an actor. The girls believe you. The girls believe that you have money. That's all. If you honestly say, "I have absolutely no money", then you will see how many of the three girls still want to have contact with you.Really? Well, I wouldn't wear fake brand clothes. Such people are clowns for me. I do not even need brand names. I take clothes that look good and have a good size. Not expensive brand names (but can be) and for sure no trash clothes.

Then, no, I am not playing with an expensive iPhone. I don't even have an iPhone. I use my normal good Samsung (e. G. A5) or Huaweii (e. G. P10). Again, nothing extraordinary and no trash.

About restaurant, I went never ever with a girl to expensive fancy restaurants. We go typically for a walk, for a coffee, etc. Also here, nothing expensive or fancy but also no trash. However, sometimes it can even be Pizhata Chats.

That's all. If you are a cool, relaxed guy, not ugly and also not perfect, then you are in the race.

And about money, yes I do say "I have no money". I even told them that that I didn't have work for almost one year.

[Member #4722]

In fact, you will not meet with the girls and say, "I am poor. " And you will not say that you live in a cheap hostel. You will wear good clothes (fake or original). You are playing with a new iPhone (of course only purchased on contract / credit). Visit a good restaurant with the girls. You play a role. You are an actor. The girls believe you. The girls believe that you have money. That's all. If you honestly say, "I have absolutely no money", then you will see how many of the three girls still want to have contact with you.I have to disagree with this. I have had success in Kiev. I am a beach bum I dress shabby for Kiev standards. Getting dressed up for me is tennis shoes jeans and button up quicksilver shirt. I don't even bring dress shoes to Kiev anymore. I don't want some fancy gold digger anyways I like amateur college girls. Have a very hot GF from Kiev she has asked me for $ only once I send her $75 every now and then without solicitation to help her out.

The first thing I tell any girl I meet in Kiev "I'm not rich man. Have good job but need to save to come on vacation. But I am generous man" this makes it easier to say no when asked for money. Normally bring small gifts for my favorite girls.

[PhotoSlider]

Not so sure about it. Not so young, 40+.I am mistaken then. No substitute for meeting in person. Let me know if you'll be in Kiev in May-June, and willing to meet. We can exchange information and few stories. I understand though that most of the mongers do not visit to meet each other. We are in Ukraine to appreciate the beauty of its females.

Too bad "Mandarin" is closed for so many years now. Was my favorite place to meet with friends in the presence of young semi-naked ladies. Food was also good there. Rio gets too crowded and Scarlette seems boring.

[PhotoSlider]

...About restaurant, I went never ever with a girl to expensive fancy restaurants. We go typically for a walk, for a coffee, etc. Also here, nothing expensive or fancy but also no trash. However, sometimes it can even be Pizhata Chats...Puzata Hata is my lithmus test to check if the girl thinks too much of herself.

I do not mind taking my date to Avalon, because I like the food and atmosphere, the mood there myself. Ladies certainly get impressed, and I do not mind that either, as a bonus on a side, not as an objective.

I do not go to super expensive places, like Premiere Palace or Monaco, because there's enough of decent options in Kiev without spending too much. But if the girl refuses to go to Puzata Hata, then her days, hours and minutes are numbered.

As previously discussed, smarter ladies prefer getting that cash to themselves, instead of spending on a fancy dinner.

[PhotoSlider]

For how much you are paying her, she should be obligated to find you a substitute, a professional substitute, at her own expense, whenever you happen to be in the mood for some action. She would pay her friends 100 to 200 to do it with you, and she would still make more money than if she had a job.What a great business proposal!

This begs the question: how much would one need to pay a female friend per day for bringing her college mates to perform casting? Would 1000 UAH be enough? 500 UAH?

[PhotoSlider]

...For 5000 USD (why is he negotiating in foreign currencies! Which is the equivalent of 134,000 UAH, I could get 67 girls. Surely among the 67 there would a little of everything (short and tall, slim and curvy, teens and milfs, enthusiastic performers and apathetic pros, and everything in between. Variety is the spice of life, and among them a couple of dozen worth repeating and worth joining your regular" list.That is precisely what I did in September-October of 2018!

Granted I spent more time with some of the girls and sometimes paid less, sometimes more per each companionship, but it is absolutely in the ballpark, including the final headcount. As a result it helped me to reinforce significantly my harem of regulars that were very accommodating during my next visit in November-December 2018.

The challenge though, Antony is not as promiscuous, and doesn't need variety. Forgive me for speaking on his behalf. He wants a true GF. Except he looks for her in the wrong place. But that Pygmalion archetype has been represented in the Art many times.

[PhotoSlider]

I agree, except for the bit about sexy outfits. That is the beauty of Kiev, for the novices, it is impossible to tell the hookers from the non-pros (or semi-pros).Oh yeah!

Here is another lengthy story: My GF was having a dinner at Avalon, while I finished with a 1 m 76 tall 18 years old blonde call girl Nicole at our apartment behind the corner. We ordered a taxi, and went outside, it was cold, the wait was still another 15 minutes, I suggested to go upstairs for a tea at Avalon. In the elevator I explained that my GF will meet us, and it will be absolutely no problem. Nicole was understandably nervous, but after some hesitation agreed. GF smiled, and ordered another cup of tea, spoke to Nicole a little, and then taxi has arrived.

After Nicole has left GF tried to belittle the competition:

- Why these young girls always dress so that it is obvious a mile away that they are hookers?

I looked and decided not to argue, because the difference in respective styles was only the price of each others outfits. Otherwise this reminded me an old blind date joke:

- How would I recognize you?

- Well. You will see a young woman, and you will pray the Lord that it shouldn't be me.

- And. ?

- It will be!

[Michi T]

I am mistaken then. No substitute for meeting in person. Let me know if you'll be in Kiev in May-June, and willing to meet. We can exchange information and few stories. I understand though that most of the mongers do not visit to meet each other. We are in Ukraine to appreciate the beauty of its females.

Too bad "Mandarin" is closed for so many years now. Was my favorite place to meet with friends in the presence of young semi-naked ladies. Food was also good there. Rio gets too crowded and Scarlette seems boring.Loool, I am a poor man, I cannot afford Rio)).

Send me PM to arrange for meeting, I may have time in June for a weekend.

[Guntherus]

And about money, yes I do say "I have no money". I even told them that that I didn't have work for almost one year.When they ask me what my occupation is, I say that I don't need to work. They become either very silent, or they say, that's cool. I used to say, that I work for the mafias, with a smirk. But it was too risky, I thought.

[Riina]

When they ask me what my occupation is, I say that I don't need to work. They become either very silent, or they say, that's cool. I used to say, that I work for the mafias, with a smirk. But it was too risky, I thought.Tell them you are on a pension. Never share insight to your resources.

[Michi T]

When they ask me what my occupation is, I say that I don't need to work. They become either very silent, or they say, that's cool. I used to say, that I work for the mafias, with a smirk. But it was too risky, I thought.Hmmm. Are the two answers good? First typically is a lie. I met some guys from the forum who also claimed they do "not need" to work. But I suddenly realized they are lying. They bought cheap food, were wearing cheap clothes, behaved overall cheap. Not a good basis for a relationship. Then the second answer? Not sure what to think about that. But hey, each his own, I don't want to judge.

[Tasss]

I searched but couldn't find reports on this topic. Has anyone had success in getting BBFS? Maybe not the first time but what about on a repeat session. I don't speak Russian, and I'd be using the agencies. BBFS isn't a must, but something I prefer.

Check my reports for very detailed reports for other locations like Colombia (Bogota and Medellin), Phnom Penh, Angeles City, Shanghai.

[Guntherus]

Hmmm. Are the two answers good? First typically is a lie. I met some guys from the forum who also claimed they do "not need" to work. But I suddenly realized they are lying. They bought cheap food, were wearing cheap clothes, behaved overall cheap. Not a good basis for a relationship. Then the second answer? Not sure what to think about that. But hey, each his own, I don't want to judge.Firstly, I accept that we are lying to the girls all the time. Have a tight story. Is the first piece of advice when meeting EE girls. Typically, it means, have a gullible explanation why you are in Kiev, not including you are only looking for as many hookups as possible. Saying that you have no job (because you don't need to) does not mean that you don't have in real life. But in my experience, it's an easy answer because girls will not ask you out so much, as if you say f. Ex. That you work for an international company, real estate, banks, embassy etc. I have a good job, I can travel a lot and have flexible schedules. But I go to Kiev for other reasons.
My other answer, I don't use it anymore, only wanted to mention it. Feel free to use.
PS. The best cynical answer I’ve heard, is to say you work in meat. But it’s difficult as a topic of discussion!

[Guntherus]

Tell them you are on a pension. Never share insight to your resources.Pension? It reveals insight to my resources.

[TinyHippo]

Hmmm. Are the two answers good? First typically is a lie. I met some guys from the forum who also claimed they do "not need" to work. But I suddenly realized they are lying. They bought cheap food, were wearing cheap clothes, behaved overall cheap. Not a good basis for a relationship. Then the second answer? Not sure what to think about that. But hey, each his own, I don't want to judge.Exactly. Even if you have 10 million USD in the bank, you are still going to work or you are just wasting your life away. Saying you do not need to work just means you are lying, lazy, or 75 years old. Just imagine if you met a girl and she said she had no hobbies and did not listen to music, read books, or watch TV. You would be like. Wtf are you doing with your life?

[TinyHippo]

That is precisely what I did in September-October of 2018!

Granted I spent more time with some of the girls and sometimes paid less, sometimes more per each companionship, but it is absolutely in the ballpark, including the final headcount. As a result it helped me to reinforce significantly my harem of regulars that were very accommodating during my next visit in November-December 2018.

The challenge though, Antony is not as promiscuous, and doesn't need variety. Forgive me for speaking on his behalf. He wants a true GF. Except he looks for her in the wrong place. But that Pygmalion archetype has been represented in the Art many times.Antony's problem is that he thinks money will get him a girlfriend. That is never the case and he should focus on improving his status (looks, appearance, confidence). I definitely need to do the same, but I am smart enough to never to try to date a girl that I am paying to have sex with. Best bet for him is to spend some money to bang some hot semi-pros to improve his confidence until he finds a real girl.

Experience helps in future relationships. I somehow met a 8+/10 on Tinder and we hit it off a couple years ago. She was 22 yo, 176 cm, artistic and with long brunette hair. Pretty much exactly what I dream about, but I could not handle being obsessed and jealous about her. She wanted to move really slow in the relationship (which most hot girls do) and it drove me crazy which ruined the relationship. While the situation really sucked at the time, the experience has helped me a lot more in the future. Just as we always comment girls can smell money. They can smell confidence and status too.

[PhotoSlider]

I searched but couldn't find reports on this topic. Has anyone had success in getting BBFS? Maybe not the first time but what about on a repeat session. I don't speak Russian, and I'd be using the agencies. BBFS isn't a must, but something I prefer...Assuming you have no plans to marry (or make your exclusive GF) the girl that would be stupid enough to agree, I have the following thoughts.

There was an aspiring woman, that upon our third or fourth encounter started suggesting BBFS. First just a hint, and then in a more and more persistent manner. Kicked her out, and never ever saw her again. For two reasons:

1. Please read prior discussions. Girls need money. Getting the guy on the hook with a baby sometime helps. Some men do a surgery to prevent this from happening.

2. There are easier ways of getting killed. And please do not educate us on how rare and improbable it is to contract HIV, and many other STDs. Chances are actually higher downstream, but I suppose you do not care about girls, or have yet another explanation.

If you ever find such an agency, please PM or post, so that most of us can avoid it like the plague.

[Michi T]

I searched but couldn't find reports on this topic. Has anyone had success in getting BBFS? Maybe not the first time but what about on a repeat session. I don't speak Russian, and I'd be using the agencies. BBFS isn't a must, but something I prefer.

Check my reports for very detailed reports for other locations like Colombia (Bogota and Medellin), Phnom Penh, Angeles City, Shanghai.What is the term BBFS?

[PhotoSlider]

What is the term BBFS?Did they ban you on Google and Urban Dictionary?

Bare Back Full Service. Vaginal sex without protection. IMHO that's okay in monogamous relationship, but not while mongering, as I consider all of those girls also as human beings, not a disposable material.

[Riina]

Exactly. Even if you have 10 million USD in the bank, you are still going to work or you are just wasting your life away. Saying you do not need to work just means you are lying, lazy, or 75 years old. Just imagine if you met a girl and she said she had no hobbies and did not listen to music, read books, or watch TV. You would be like. Wtf are you doing with your life?I've met many mid aged men in life that no longer need to work and I certainly would not say they are wasting their lives not working more. Their's a lot of fun and experiences to be had in this world outside of more meaningless work. I can't help but feel that you believe a Western mentality will convert successfully in Ukraine. It won't.

For the doubters, try telling a girl in Ukraine that you are a hard working 9 to 5 go getter and then make some judgement on her lifestyle. Tell her she's a lazy bum and this is not how it's done in the West. Ukrainians love confident and strong willed men. Let us know how it goes?

Pussy is free in Ukraine. But you'll only tap it for as long as she believes you are bettering her lifestyle.

[PhotoSlider]

Exactly. Even if you have 10 million USD in the bank, you are still going to work or you are just wasting your life away. Saying you do not need to work just means you are lying, lazy, or 75 years old. Just imagine if you met a girl and she said she had no hobbies and did not listen to music, read books, or watch TV. You would be like. Wtf are you doing with your life?20 years ago 3-5 million USD was sufficient to live off of it. Nowadays it is no less than 10 indeed.

I wouldn't waste my life away if I wasn't working in the widely accepted perception of the expression "working occupation". There are so many ways to stay busy and happy besides work and mongering. Staying fit and healthy surely requires time and resources. Mental health and education is another dimension. There are many more.

And for the record, I do not consider mongering as a waste of time. Its is yet another form of Art. I like Art in all its manifestations.

[DramaFree11]

I've met many mid aged men in life that no longer need to work and I certainly would not say they are wasting their lives not working more. Their's a lot of fun and experiences to be had in this world outside of more meaningless work. I can't help but feel that you believe a Western mentality will convert successfully in Ukraine. It won't.

For the doubters, try telling a girl in Ukraine that you are a hard working 9 to 5 go getter and then make some judgement on her lifestyle. Tell her she's a lazy bum and this is not how it's done in the West. Ukrainians love confident and strong willed men. Let us know how it goes?

Pussy is free in Ukraine. But you'll only tap it for as long as she believes you are bettering her lifestyle.Free Pussy in Ukraine, very, very unlikely, unless you have extremely low standards. Not to mention the time you will put in and expenses flying to Kiev. You pay, one way or another.

[PhotoSlider]

I've met many mid aged men in life that no longer need to work and I certainly would not say they are wasting their lives not working more. There's a lot of fun and experiences to be had in this world outside of more meaningless work.Can't agree more with you, Riina! Even outside of more meaningful work there's a lot of great experiences.


I can't help but feel that you believe a Western mentality will convert successfully in Ukraine. It won't.

For the doubters, try telling a girl in Ukraine that you are a hard working 9 to 5 go getter and then make some judgement on her lifestyle. Tell her she's a lazy bum and this is not how it's done in the West. Ukrainians love confident and strong willed men. Let us know how it goes?And please ask someone to record a video of that conversation. I'd like to see how her face expression changes.


Pussy is free in Ukraine. But you'll only tap it for as long as she believes you are bettering her lifestyle.That's a strong statement. There's certainly free high quality pussy in Ukraine. I have witnessed it myself on more than occasion. Typically there is an associated expense one way or the other, but as Forrest Gump said, miracles do happen in every day's life. The pinnacle was when after going to Theater and subsequent dinner, my 9 without any discussion decided to stay overnight. That was our second date ever. The problem however was that at 3 am driver had to take me to the airport, and she didn't know that yet. But precisely as Riina says she believed that I am bettering her lifestyle, and in many ways I was. It is an equivalent of the proverbial "pursuit of happiness" without the actual guarantee of reaching happiness.

We did meet again when I returned to Kiev and stayed together for LTR. I didn't discuss her life style. Her pussy is no less than top 5 in my list. Money wasn't mentioned. Those who want a proof that she was at least 9, please meet me at Avalon in May.

[DramaFree11]

Sorry, spending between $1000-1700 on an airline, missing a couple of weeks of work, to bang a 5 or 6 is definitely, not free pussy. As I have mentioned, most guys could bang 5 or 6's in there native country, for free. . You guys might want to take a double take on the pictures you guys are posting of these supposed High Quality girls. Just normal girls, in an over inflated market.

[Michi T]

Free Pussy in Ukraine, very, very unlikely, unless you have extremely low standards. Not to mention the time you will put in and expenses flying to Kiev. You pay, one way or another.Simply not true.

[PhotoSlider]

Simply not true.As Karl Marx said: "Practice Is the Sole Criterion of Truth". Hehehe.

Whether a theory correctly reflects the objectively existing objects (beautiful and affordable Ukrainian ladies) with which it concerns itself, and whether it is the truth, cannot be determined within the sphere of thinking, or by means of dramatic theoretical argument, but only on the basis of testing in social practice.

As applied to mongering, AFAIK in November 2018 in Ukraine, Michi T performed social practice directly related to the subject of our discussion. So did I in September, October, November and December of 2018. So did couple of friends whose opinion I trust and value, and that was in January and February 2019. Somehow we all found beautiful Ukrainian ladies. Some of those beautiful ladies were free. Some of the flights to Kiev were on business, also free.

Dramatic theoretical argument on Forum without visiting Ukraine for years versus social practice on the ground in Kiev.

IMO Michi T wins easily.

[DramaFree11]

Looks like the only one on the Kiev thread that banged or hooked up with Ukraine girls this week is me. What a Surprise!Funny how others complain, about my post, and deal in a fantasy world. I am the only one banging Ukraine Chicks, at the moment. (Crazy part is I am trying to avoid them, that is why I am traveling to Moscow) Interesting, but no girls are leaving Kiev, according to the experts, just makes you wonder.

I do give Mich T. Credit, he has major street game, but you may want to read what others have posted about those girls not me, just normal girls.

[PhotoSlider]

Some people really have a flair for the drama and love the use of numbers. First it is impossible to get anything but a 7 in Kiev until I point out that a 7 is a well above average woman now it's only 6's that is the best anyone can get.

And then to get really dramatic about the percentage of fake profiles on escort sites the guy says 95% but he has to come in with the dramatics with 99.5 despite admittedly not visiting Kiev for about 2.5 years and regardless there would be no way to know the percentage of fake profiles unless you called every one so in fact no one knows and the flair for the drama can be very misleading to other forum members.Forget 7 and even 6 now it is 5. Ukraine is degenerating rapidly. In a dramatic fashion.

I am almost thankful to this troll fishing for attention. The less mongers go to Kiev, the more affordable beautiful pussy for the brave ones of us that do visit and partake.

[GDreams]

Sorry, spending between $1000-1700 on an airline, missing a couple of weeks of work, to bang a 5 or 6 is definitely, not free pussy. As I have mentioned, most guys could bang 5 or 6's in there native country, for free. . You guys might want to take a double take on the pictures you guys are posting of these supposed High Quality girls. Just normal girls, in an over inflated market.Rarely is free pussy free. Food, enough drink to relax their guard, all costs along with the efforts made on those who don't perform at all. I married a Ukrainian from Kiev, she was 18 I was 48. It was expensive free but I enjoyed it. I now have a 23 yo Russian GF who is also an expensive freebie but worth it to me. I have little desire to seek out lots of casual encounters, one hot GF meets my needs. I will include a taste and I would consider her an 8 - 8.5, perfect body for my liking.

[InDonetsk19]

Hi,

I am at the moment in Donetsk. Any tips on how and where do I get to meet some nice pleasure girls? Any good massage parlours etc, places like recommended bars or whatever?

[JohnnyW]

I'm up for sharing the legit and good girls we find on Kiev.

https://t.me/joinchat/HNPXAw7tQXsDc-RTFYGsIQ is a channel for sharing information.For more information about Kiev and girls.

[PhotoSlider]

Enough pointless arguing about who is right and who is lying.

Friend of mine writes today from Kiev that he doesn't have sufficient bandwidth to visit all the girls demanding his attention. Competition is high for males with a promise of bettering girls lives. Riina, we should copyright this expression, I'll pay you royalties after opening T-shirt business.

Would be great to get some real reports. February and March are usually the slowest. April and May is when it picks up, as young hotties change into more revealing outfits, and stroll around showing off what they have to offer.

[Michi T]

Rarely is free pussy free. Food, enough drink to relax their guard, all costs along with the efforts made on those who don't perform at all. I married a Ukrainian from Kiev, she was 18 I was 48. It was expensive free but I enjoyed it. I now have a 23 yo Russian GF who is also an expensive freebie but worth it to me. I have little desire to seek out lots of casual encounters, one hot GF meets my needs. I will include a taste and I would consider her an 8 - 8.5, perfect body for my liking.Haha, well done))) That the young nice girl.