View Full Version : Kyiv
PhotoSlider
07-02-19, 22:18
...We are supposed to be exchanging actual experiences and / or extrapolating from actual experiences to get some realistic pricing information...Totally agree. The keyword here is "actual", meaning "as experienced personally by the writer himself recently", within the last year. Otherwise sky is the limit for far reaching assumptions and misrepresentations.
Kiev-x IMHO is a trustworthy source of information from the field. Like our Forum it is moderated rather strictly. On the other hand, there are known facts of KEC management pretending to post customer feedback about providers on their own website.
I would rely on field reports of Forum members, that recently visited Ukraine. Anything less than that is prone to be speculative, argumentative, opinionated, misleading, obsolete, inaccurate or just plain wrong. And I myself am not safe against making those mistakes while discussing rumors and reviews, instead of reporting on actual events personally experienced by me.
On a separate note: The question has being asked here repeatedly if Kiev is worth visiting nowadays. More specifically, is it worth it to go for 3-5, even 7 days? The answer is simple, statistically speaking most likely you will overpay and get taken advantage of. Miracles do happen though. Factors leading to more frequently experienced success have been discussed here, and are even posted as reports of distinction. Difficult, not impossible; and Luck favors prepared.
Awaiting more real reports instead of whining doubts, complaints and contempt based on theoretical research.
My own experience for recent visit seems to show that not only many young, beautiful and willing students leave the City in the first week of June, but also professionally behaving agency dispatchers temporarily quit for the summer, leaving us mostly in the hands of abusive call-handlers. My own escape from that misery was in the hands of independent young ladies, that in the past committed to meet independently for a longer periods of time outside of any management reach, and proved their worthiness. I do hunt around as well, but not in a desperate manner, because girls found on the side are dessert, while regular contacts are the main course of my breakfast, lunch and dinner.
I do pay 200-300 UAH to my long-term female partners on a rare occasion. That is when their expiration date is over, and I want them to leave into an early retirement on their own. Those that stay typically get 2-3-5 K UAH bonus upon departure. I definitely do not start with hourly girls under 1500 UAH, even when I am seriously drunk.
Girls surely ask if I am local or not. Most of them have no way of verifying. Sometimes I give a tip, usually 500 UAH, on a rare occasion it can be 1000 UAH, when the new girl stays 2-3 hours. Sometimes I write my phone number on the tip money, and it never helped, they do not call back. We are 95-99% forgotten the moment they step out of the door, unless line of communication is established over one of the messengers.
Cheers!
Out of that 1500-2100 UAH the girl typically keeps 30-40%, so my 500 doubles it, but I tip no more than one in 10-15 girls. I prefer not to give out advance payments.
The stripclub that is not mentioned is Darling Club. Darling Club has an online agency also "VipMolly". If you chat with support they can give directions to apartments where you can see the girls. In each are 8-10 girls. There are many brothels but "30-40" I do not know.Different profiles and higher prices on their English page.
https://en.vipmolly.com/profiles/ English.
https://vipmolly.com/profiles/ Russian.
AbsoluteScam
07-03-19, 18:59
Different profiles and higher prices on their English page.
https://en.vipmolly.com/profiles/ English.
https://vipmolly.com/profiles/ Russian.Gia used to do that too.
One of the girls on Molly is the same as one on Gia (forgot the new name), so I guess some are legit.
Different profiles and higher prices on their English page.
https://en.vipmolly.com/profiles/ English.
https://vipmolly.com/profiles/ Russian.There's also Russian only https://vipmolly.net/ with year 2019 at bottoms of pages, whereas vipmolly.com pages have year 2017 or 2015 at bottoms, plus different phone numbers.
Where is there a good place on K street to convert my money?
I remember in russia they pretty much demanded collector quality bills, insomuch as a frayed corner and your bill was rejected. Also they NEVER converted all the money you wanted to exchange at once. And they were always really really mean.
Is ukraine like that? THANKS.
Where is there a good place on K street to convert my money?
I remember in russia they pretty much demanded collector quality bills, insomuch as a frayed corner and your bill was rejected. Also they NEVER converted all the money you wanted to exchange at once. And they were always really really mean.
Is ukraine like that? THANKS.About every 20 m you will see yellow and black signs with Obmin Balut. The are currency exchange. Go in and ask for rates. Try a few, some are better than others.
I know I'm in a foreign country and blah blah blah.
But just so I know what to brace myself for, generally speaking, is english at least a little more widespread than it is in russia or the Czech Republic? Or are most of their second language preferences still german (or chinese) over english? I just haven't had the time to invest in trying to learn the language, hell I'm still trying to learn spanish. I can sound out the cyrillic letters but that's about it. Am I going to be in really bad shape over here? THANKS GUYS, as always, you're the best!
PhotoSlider
07-05-19, 20:37
Where is there a good place on K street to convert my money?
I remember in russia they pretty much demanded collector quality bills, insomuch as a frayed corner and your bill was rejected. Also they NEVER converted all the money you wanted to exchange at once. And they were always really really mean.
Is Ukraine like that? THANKS.Ukraine is more polite and easy going.
Exchange kiosks are all over downtown. Pick a spot with the best conversion rate. If exchanging a lot, you might want to get 500 UAH banknotes instead of a much thicker pad of 200 or even 100 UAH.
I also had problems with worn out bills in Russia, or those with writings or traces of ink. Nothing like that in Kiev. To be completely honest I do try to bring with me cleaner cash. No passport asked to exchange.
I also seldom have any cash leftovers departing from Ukraine. In the past one needed an Ukrainian passport to exchange back to foreign currency at the airport. My driver helped, but now I just leave money with him for later use.
I also use Kiev ATMs to get UAHs from my home bank account, and no problem. 8000 UAH in one withdrawal at PrivatBank (about 300 USD or EUR), sometimes 2-3-4 withdrawals in one visit. Some banks limit the amount you can withdraw to charge you the fee.
PhotoSlider
07-05-19, 21:29
I know I'm in a foreign country and blah blah blah.
But just so I know what to brace myself for, generally speaking, is english at least a little more widespread than it is in russia or the Czech Republic? Or are most of their second language preferences still german (or chinese) over english? I just haven't had the time to invest in trying to learn the language, hell I'm still trying to learn spanish. I can sound out the cyrillic letters but that's about it. Am I going to be in really bad shape over here? THANKS GUYS, as always, you're the best!English in Kiev is about as wide spread as elsewhere in Eastern Europe. More so with younger generation.
Russian is the first language. Ukrainian is gaining its share steadily. With every year, even half a year I encounter and enjoy listening to good Ukrainian more and more.
English is the language of international communication in Kiev. Spanish and Chinese are rare, mostly college students. German is mostly tourists and some expats. Then there are the usual Turkish, Arabic, Polish, and all the others, as lots of nations are drawn into this Cosmopolitan Capital.
Pick up Lonely Planet conversation book for Ukrainian with MP3 CD, you can do a lot while flying in, instead of complaining how scared you are)) Few phrases to start with, then pick up a female "tongue carrier", and she'll show you the rest.
Even 3 years ago I would say "Study Russian, not Ukrainian", but all of education at schools and colleges is now done in Ukrainian, and before you know it, just like in Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, Bulgaria, Mongolia, - everybody under 25 will have no idea how to speak Russian. And I assume your main interest lies between 18 and 25.
Keep in mind that real Ukrainian is far enough from Russian, and street signs, TV, and other communications slowly but steadily migrate to Ukrainian. Russian is still widely spoken, but everybody understand Ukrainian now, and since you speak none of the two, I would pick the state language with more future potential.
The reason to stay with Russian would be if you plan to visit Russian as well, or think that Ukraine will be taken over by their Northern neighbor. Russian in Kiev will work just fine for you for the next 3-5 years, there is no animosity towards it. In fact some of my friends born and residing in Kiev insist that their children go to schools where Russian is taught, as they think Russian is more useful.
Showaround is one global organization that is well represented in Kiev. Those guides are quite affordable, sometimes even free, as they want to practice English or German or whatever you speak. They will not provide the ultimate prize you are searching for, but they will show you anything you need. They may leave you an impression that they are P4 P, but that is misleading, as it is not stated explicitly. Otherwise currency exchange spots, cheap and expensive food of any kind, night life, even be your wingman, wingwoman. Couple days walking around may help you to overcome the initial mental barrier and fall in love with Kiev and Ukrainians.
I know I'm in a foreign country and blah blah blah.
But just so I know what to brace myself for, generally speaking, is english at least a little more widespread than it is in russia or the Czech Republic? Or are most of their second language preferences still german (or chinese) over english? I just haven't had the time to invest in trying to learn the language, hell I'm still trying to learn spanish. I can sound out the cyrillic letters but that's about it. Am I going to be in really bad shape over here? THANKS GUYS, as always, you're the best!Google translate is a big help. Other than that, they understand a lot more English than they are will to try to speak. A lot of it depends on how much they want to do business with you. Kiev is a big, international city, so being a native English speaker doesn't count for nearly as much as far as social currency. They know another customer will be along any minute. The smaller cities in Ukraine are more accommodating. Just keep a friendly attitude and you will be fine.
What is the difference between sitting at the club or sitting at any place in a street or a window with a view, and sufficient traffic flow of beautiful Ukrainian women going back and forth?
Nobody told me to go away from the bench across the street from National University on Volodymyrska Street. I didn't pay, except maybe for a tea from a vendor nearby. I did strike a conversation with few hotties, and over time got a phone number from two of them despite being significantly over forty and single.
For a true monger Kiev clubs are a rip-off, and always been since River Palace has been closed. Why insist on Clubs being something that they are not? Are they any different in New York or London? I mean, yeah, perhaps you can enter, and then what? You'd be completely ignored. Well, I guess you, Riina, have a chance of watching beautiful Ukrainian girls in Northern suburbs of Chicago. Speaking for myself though, I cannot come nowhere close to what I accomplish in Kiev, and I never go to Chi or Caribbean or DFleurs, etc. Last time I attempted to do so was in the February of 2013. Exercise in futility. Flashy promise of ability to waste your money..I agree with you. You are right. But you are wrong in one detail. You appeal to people who come from the Western world and call on them to break the rules that exist in their world. This Western world is full of restrictions, prohibitions and convention. Dating in the street in the West is not always good for you to end. This can lead to problems. Even in Poland, dating in the street is dying these days. Many women make a gloomy face. And walk past you. . This is the influence of the West. You say that people take an example from Jymondor. But who is Jymondor? This is a Ukrainian who lives in a rich country. In Canada. This is not a Western person. He knows the language and mentality. And who is Steve 69? This is not quite a systematic person for the West. Yes, he is American. But this is not a typical American. Not every American dares to approach a young girl in the center of Kiev. It is not always easy even if you are Ukrainian. Not because that you are afraid of accusations of sexual harassment, but simply because you are afraid that you will get an offensive refusal. Like a male. The woman will tell you. No, no, . And if you are not Ukrainian, but a Swede or German or Canadian? You are brought up in a completely different environment. Where is very bad legislation for men and any stupid girl can create problems and troubles for you. What you offer to these guys is quite rational and this is a good way to search for pussies in Ukraine. Ukrainian girls are not used to shouting about sexual harassment and react to it normally and without problems. Often they just smile and give you a polite refusal. Without hysterics. But this is impossible simply because it is impossible for most western guys. Even for a Ukrainian guy it's not so easy to turn to a beautiful young girl on the street. Otherwise, the escort Gia agency would stop its work. Useless. What do you think, every guy can go to such girls on Kiev street. Like these photos.
... all of education at schools and colleges is now done in Ukrainian, and before you know it, just like in Lithuania, Poland, Latvia, Bulgaria, Mongolia, - everybody under 25 will have no idea how to speak Russian...
Older generation in central and eastern Ukraine spoke Russian as first and often only language, so many young people still have to learn Russian to talk to their parents and grandparents, regardless of what language they use in school. Whereas with Lithuania, etc, older generation spoke Lithuanian, etc as first language.
Also, Lithuania, etc can afford to replace Russian with English because Russia is and will continue to be a minor trading partner compared to the EU (or China in case of Mongolia). Whereas Russia will resume its economic importance to Ukraine as soon as the war is over, and everyone knows that, which is why those Ukrainian parents you mentioned want their children to master both Ukrainian and Russian.
Bottom line is that most young Ukrainians (especially central and eastern Ukraine) will be able speak / understand intermediate Russian for decades to come. Though when speaking, they may increasingly mix with Ukrainian. So I see no reason to learn Ukrainian rather than Russian, for someone planning to only visit Kyiv. I do see reasons to learn maybe 500 most common Ukrainian words that are different in Ukrainian and Russian. Adding those 500 words should allow reading Ukrainian, for those who can already read Russian.
I know I'm in a foreign country and blah blah blah.
But just so I know what to brace myself for, generally speaking, is english at least a little more widespread than it is in russia or the Czech Republic? Or are most of their second language preferences still german (or chinese) over english? I just haven't had the time to invest in trying to learn the language, hell I'm still trying to learn spanish. I can sound out the cyrillic letters but that's about it. Am I going to be in really bad shape over here? THANKS GUYS, as always, you're the best!How much do you know about the English language and letters? Me, I know the language a little. There was sometimes a language barrier in Ukraine. In general, however, no issue with language skills were found.
I agree with you. You are right. But you are wrong in one detail. You appeal to people who come from the Western world and call on them to break the rules that exist in their world. This Western world is full of restrictions, prohibitions and convention. Dating in the street in the West is not always good for you to end. This can lead to problems. Even in Poland, dating in the street is dying these days. Many women make a gloomy face. And walk past you. . This is the influence of the West. You say that people take an example from Jymondor. But who is Jymondor? This is a Ukrainian who lives in a rich country. In Canada. This is not a Western person. He knows the language and mentality. And who is Steve 69? This is not quite a systematic person for the West. Yes, he is American. But this is not a typical American. Not every American dares to approach a young girl in the center of Kiev. It is not always easy even if you are Ukrainian. Not because that you are afraid of accusations of sexual harassment, but simply because you are afraid that you will get an offensive refusal. Like a male. The woman will tell you. No, no, . And if you are not Ukrainian, but a Swede or German or Canadian? You are brought up in a completely different environment. Where is very bad legislation for men and any stupid girl can create problems and troubles for you. What you offer to these guys is quite rational and this is a good way to search for pussies in Ukraine. Ukrainian girls are not used to shouting about sexual harassment and react to it normally and without problems. Often they just smile and give you a polite refusal. Without hysterics. But this is impossible simply because it is impossible for most western guys. Even for a Ukrainian guy it's not so easy to turn to a beautiful young girl on the street. Otherwise, the escort Gia agency would stop its work. Useless. What do you think, every guy can go to such girls on Kiev street. Like these photos.Yes, to some extent. In my home country, dating on the street and other public places is very difficult. Even in Poland you often get gloomy faces. Well. In Ukraine, still very possible to get girls from public places. I am talking about civilians, not "money for sex" girls.
PhotoSlider
07-07-19, 01:53
Older generation in central and eastern Ukraine spoke Russian as first and often only language, so many young people still have to learn Russian to talk to their parents and grandparents, regardless of what language they use in school.Good analysis. Agree with 99% of your statements. Some comments for the sake of discussion.
Younger generation is more likely to understand rudimentary Russian, and use parents as the communication link with grandparents. This is the same as second generation immigrants, - those born in England or US, and speaking, writing and reading in English. They also understand those very 500 words in the language of their parents, but read with great difficulty, and cannot write. That younger second generation of immigrants speaks English back to their parents, even if parents insist on preserving their native language. Children understand the subset, parents may not speak English that great, but both manage while bridging two cultures.
I didn't hear college students frequently using Ukrainian in ordinary conversation even 2-3 years ago. Now it's everywhere. They still speak and really well understand Russian, and do not mind switching to Russian altogether if they realize it is easier for me. Residents of Kiev go as far as suggesting me to switch to Russian, when they hear how badly I struggle trying to speak Ukrainian. The latter happens even if their first language is Ukrainian (Lviv, Vinnitsa, Chernovtsy).
Whereas with Lithuania, etc, older generation spoke Lithuanian, etc as first language.Ukraine is indeed unique in that respect. Russian became dominant. Perhaps only Kazakhstan is similar, where title nation used to be a minority. Even Latvia is transitioning.
Also, Lithuania, etc can afford to replace Russian with English because Russia is and will continue to be a minor trading partner compared to the EU (or China in case of Mongolia). Whereas Russia will resume its economic importance to Ukraine as soon as the war is overOne scenario to end the war would be Russia taking over most of Ukraine. Hopefully not. There will be too much bloodshed on both sides. My expectation is an equivalent of Gaza Strip for decades. Is Israel in the state of war?
and everyone knows that, which is why those Ukrainian parents you mentioned want their children to master both Ukrainian and Russian.They teach because more people worldwide speak Russian than Ukrainian. On post-soviet territory Russian is lingua franca. Even Lithuanian business partners visiting Kiev speak Russian, not English.
Those parents also took into account English classes quality as the primary criteria for choosing school.
Bottom line is that most young Ukrainians (especially central and eastern Ukraine) will be able speak / understand intermediate Russian for decades to come.Agree, except those that came from part of Eastern Ukraine annexed by Russia are frequently traumatized, and for LT I eventually chose to avoid them. Young girls from Western Ukraine are pure and innocent.
Though when speaking, they may increasingly mix with Ukrainian. So I see no reason to learn Ukrainian rather than Russian, for someone planning to only visit Kyiv. I do see reasons to learn maybe 500 most common Ukrainian words that are different in Ukrainian and Russian. Adding those 500 words should allow reading Ukrainian, for those who can already read Russian.Totally agree with that statement. 500 is a good vocabulary in any language. Make sure you make it 500 phrases, not words. And preferably phrases related to romantic situations. Might as well call it mongering.
Or forget Ukrainian. You will be fine with Russian only for few short visits.
PhotoSlider
07-07-19, 02:05
I agree with you. You are right. But you are wrong in one detail. You appeal to people who come from the Western world and call on them to break the rules that exist in their world.Or one might rephrase that I call on them not to impose their Western world rules on the country and City that they visit.
If they want to play by the rules of their Western world, then German FKK and Thailand are much easier.
This Western world is full of restrictions, prohibitions and convention. Dating in the street in the West is not always good for you to end. This can lead to problems. Even in Poland, dating in the street is dying these days. Many women make a gloomy face. And walk past you. . This is the influence of the West. You say that people take an example from Jymondor. But who is Jymondor? This is a Ukrainian who lives in a rich country. In Canada. This is not a Western person. He knows the language and mentality.And that is one of many reasons why he is more successful than others.
And who is Steve 69? This is not quite a systematic person for the West. Yes, he is American. But this is not a typical American. Not every American dares to approach a young girl in the center of Kiev. It is not always easy even if you are Ukrainian. Not because that you are afraid of accusations of sexual harassment, but simply because you are afraid that you will get an offensive refusal. Like a male. The woman will tell you. No, no, . And if you are not Ukrainian, but a Swede or German or Canadian? You are brought up in a completely different environment. Where is very bad legislation for men and any stupid girl can create problems and troubles for you. What you offer to these guys is quite rational and this is a good way to search for pussies in Ukraine. Ukrainian girls are not used to shouting about sexual harassment and react to it normally and without problems. Often they just smile and give you a polite refusal. Without hysterics. But this is impossible simply because it is impossible for most western guys.And that is why by my estimates less than 50% of visitors to Kiev leave satisfied. And of those less than 10% leave reports. Therefore 1 out 20 posts a happy report.
Even for a Ukrainian guy it's not so easy to turn to a beautiful young girl on the street. Otherwise, the escort Gia agency would stop its work. Useless. What do you think, every guy can go to such girls on Kiev street. Like these photos.AFAIK GIA doesn't exists anymore, and KEC is not nearly as attractive.
Approaching girls in the street is not for faint-hearted. Especially those in Kiev.
I approach hourly call girls after fucking them on my premises. And get their phone numbers. Not always, but sufficiently enough. That is easier. But I cannot resist myself, and also keep hunting wherever I am.
BTW, girls on your photos look great!
DramaFree11
07-07-19, 18:30
Kozerog is a great source, he does a great job about talking about the hardwork, cost and time that is takes to meet for girls in Kiev. Newbies need to read all his reports, before booking a trip to Ukraine.
Also over the last 2 months P.S, reports have improved 1000% he is now talking about both the good and ugly in Kiev. This is all I ask for. We do not have a lot in common and probably will never agree on a Lot, but if he keeps this up, no need for me to post on the Kiev page. I have also learned a few things from him, so that proves you can learn something from everyone. Maybe he can even unblock me.
I will only correct obvious mistakes, exaggerations and lies. I have moved on to better destinations.
PhotoSlider
07-08-19, 00:41
2 Drama: I never blocked anybody, including you. Nor did I complain to Admins. Likewise, I could do just fine without your seal of approval and proofreading my posts. Forum can judge on its own.
Indeed, it would be great if after 3 years of not visiting Ukraine and Kiev in particular you could find peace and move on from this thread. Newbies in Moscow Forum may need your protection.
Thanks for extending the olive branch, no hard feelings.
PhotoSlider
07-08-19, 03:22
...by my estimates less than 50% of visitors to Kiev leave satisfied. And of those less than 10% leave reports. Therefore 1 out 20 posts a happy report...There are 2 gentlemen visiting Kiev right now, and without a doubt both are having a blast there. One of them in the past shared his exclusive sources with me, and I was stunned by his beauties and their manners!
The other gentleman may post a report when he gets back home and recovers from festivities. From what I've seen so far in his private communication to me, the girls are exactly as I promised few months ago: 2-3 no lower than 8 or 9 in the first 2 days or so upon landing.
Correspondingly, both of these gentlemen received few snapshots from the fun I had upon arrival mid May. The metaphor stays the same, - "I thought I had died and went straight to Heaven!
Why did these three including myself succeeded? For many reasons: traveling to Kiev frequently, loving it, working hard on procurement, being realistic and honest, being sufficiently handsome and attractive in manners and appearance, not thinking of Kiev as of the place full of cheaters and scammers, not begging for failure, but not expecting an easy and guaranteed success either.
One out of these 3 will not post any reports, just like many other successful visitors. That is why I am saying 1 out of 20 visitors posts happy reports. It doesn't mean only 1 out of 20 is happy. Happiness is in the eye of beholder. Some guys are happy with take out from Rio, others do not mind KEC, I hear certain clubs provide good degree of success.
I do not think I could crack Prague or Barcelona that easily, but to each his own.
Cheers!
AFAIK GIA doesn't exists anymore, and KEC is not nearly as attractive.KEC is gia.
PhotoSlider
07-09-19, 03:35
KEC is gia.SSDD. Same Shit, Different Day. But devil is in the detail.
IMHO customer service was noticeably better at GIA. Placing the order is a challenge today. Not so trustworthy feedback on KEC website from fake customers, positioned as real, but frequently written by KEC management. Description of options again and again not matching what actually happens with the girl. Prices went up significantly. There is no option for using KEC apartment.
Maybe you have better sources, Stefan, but it seems that a year ago KEC has displaced GIA management. Protection and ownership could be the same.
I believe GIA was better, especially 3 years ago in 2016, than KEC is now in 2019.
Hi guys,
I was in Kiev last week and had good fuck with mamba girls and 2 from apartments. I'm already thinking of my next trip, do clubs in Kiev worth the visit? Any good addresses?
There are 2 gentlemen visiting Kiev right now, ..And myself will fly there tomorrow. Yeeeah))).
PhotoSlider
07-09-19, 15:58
And myself will fly there tomorrow. Yeeeah.And something tells me you will not be suffering either.
Please report on your achievements.
Maybe you have better sources, Stefan, but it seems that a year ago KEC has displaced GIA management. Protection and ownership could be the same.
I never used Gia or KEC (Kiev Escort Club) myself, but it is clear they are the same because some articles/testimonials at their recruiting agency (https://www.aemal.org/) still use Gia, though most were updated to use KEC. Those articles/testimonials are very much worth reading, BTW, for insight into the mind of the very talented original mamasan/owner. I suspect she long ago made her fortune and decided to finally call it quits after the police bust last year. Whoever replaced her probably lacks her long-term vision and just wants to milk the business for as much as possible as fast as possible.
PhotoSlider
07-09-19, 20:14
I never used Gia or KEC (Kiev Escort Club) myself, but it is clear they are the same because some articles/testimonials at their recruiting agency (https://www.aemal.org/) still use Gia, though most were updated to use KEC. Those articles/testimonials are very much worth reading, BTW, for insight into the mind of the very talented original mamasan/owner. I suspect she long ago made her fortune and decided to finally call it quits after the police bust last year. Whoever replaced her probably lacks her long-term vision and just wants to milk the business for as much as possible as fast as possible.I used ex-GIA model last time in mid-June 2019. And ordered from GIA directly in November 2017.
Good HR link, never knew it existed. I suspect I know who performs casting.
Anyway, I might have presented somewhat distorted reality. My apologies, and as always, thanks to Kozerog for providing a clear no-BS explanation.
KEC is GIA that has been transformed in May-July of 2018 after widely publicized police bust. In that respect KEC is the same. KEC business policy though is near-sighted, and targets short term visitors. Perhaps they make, or expected to make more money that way, difficult to figure out.
Seems there's a niche for KEC. Girls like Oksana, Masha, Marta have been with KEC and GIA for many years now. Oksana is a classic example of KEC lying, because she is positioned as 21 years old, and she was 21 in September 2016 at GIA. KEC management would say that girls conceal their age for privacy reasons, but that's BS, because KEC has copies of their passports. Lie is a lie.
"Verified" Pictures where girls hold a piece of paper with a recent date handwritten is a KEC innovation. Doubtful value really.
GIA has been around for many years, but recent offerings proliferation through Viber, WhatsApp, Telegram and IG made a dent in GIA / KEC profits. Now KEC tries to squeeze more. Requirement to work 5 days a week seems new, in the past GIA ladies reported in the morning if they were willing to work (needed money) today. That's what one of good GIA girls back in 2016 explained to me: "When I need money, I just call". She used her money making pussy as an ATM, and felt great about it.
I can recall maybe one or two Forum reports in the last year of someone using KEC services. We used to have many. Last good ones were in 2018 prior to bust.
PhotoSlider
07-09-19, 23:27
Recollecting recent visit to Kiev, I tried to analyze it statistically, and here is what has been found:
5 weeks visit.
4 girls are my LT (long term) partners. Meaning I can always count on quality of their service, and they are happy to meet for reasonable compensation. All four I consider beautiful, especially judging by the quality of their service. One is model level in everything, yet she is also honest, sincere, good mannered young lady.
Separate slightly overlapping subset includes 8 girls. They are beautiful in the commonly accepted sense. To me they are strikingly beautiful, judging by both. Appearance and their exceptional personality.
Out of these 8 beauties only 2 are my LT partners. The other 2 LT partners are far from being ugly, and are chosen based on performance and behavior out of bed, manners and personality. LT to me means I can be with them 3 days and nights straight.
A 17 girls subset includes ladies that are either beautiful physically, are great performers, or both. 12 of these 17 are 8's or higher, 3 are 10's. Only 3 girls performed at level 7, 8 and 9 respectively. The rest to my taste were through the roof. Both 4 LT partners and 8 beauties above are included in this subset of 17, and 5 more girls added due to exceptional performance and personality. 3 girls I rated 6 by face, but one of them had great body and 21 (yes 21) performance. 1 girl was rated 7 mostly by face, had great body, and performed so great that I extended her for another hour within the first 15 minutes. She was the one I kicked out in the last October, and this time she courageously proved she is top notch in bed.
2 girls were kicked out for misbehaving. 1 girl stormed out in the middle of threesome (I didn't request anything outrageous, but she felt uncomfortable from the very start).
8 girls, including the latter 3 were poor choice one way or another: unacceptable attitude, MILFs with sagging breasts, overweight, bad teeth or skin defects. Not that many.
Many more girls were rejected during curbside casting in the taxi, as I usually had 2 girls delivered and picked only one. Do not take those into account.
In 5 weeks I had 39 different girls. Challenged by my Kiev friend, but definitely not trying to achieve any records. Half of those girls were definitely fuckable, especially after artificial celibacy in the West. That half was good one way or the other. Sufficiently hot looks, passionate, or both.
In my opinion the above provides representative set for statistical analysis.
There were also ladies that I refused to copulate with, or ladies that I met more than once and incurred certain expenses, but didn't engage sexually on some of those occasions due to logistical constraints on my side. The usual bandwidth availability and over subscription challenges of Kiev.
My rough estimates makes it about 75 acts of consummation with the above 39 ladies. 2 more I didn't touch on purposes, making it 41 that collected my money in some way.
Ranging from 30 minutes (to imminent kick out) to a few days in a single visit it averages out to 10 hours per single girl. Obviously a meaningless metric.
Similarly my hourly pay was 400 UAH on average, where hourly girls were between 1400 and 2100, and LT ladies were at the rate of 2-5 K UAH per 24 hours stay. Interestingly enough one single fuck across 5 weeks did cost me about 2000 UAH, because with LT partners it was no more than 2-3 times in 24 hours, as I am not that young.
There was one more LT candidate, gorgeous lady and great all around, charging only $150 an hour regardless of the length of stay, and allowing all I want plus more, but she travels a lot, and for the last two weeks 2 of LT ladies monopolized my apartment in an alternating pattern almost exclusively.
Conclusions:
4 or 5% of 39 girls are LT. All 4 are from prior visits to Kiev. Due to time constraints no new ones established.
2 more girls (39+2) were LT partners, I met and retired them for too much drama. 10 more LT and ST girls from the past I retired without meeting them.
8 or 20% of girls were beautiful.
17 or almost 50% were beauties and good in bed or cute enough and great performers.
3 were rather terrible.
8 (including 3 above) or 20% were bad. 5 of them or 13% I still had. No comment on my reasons behind it.
50% of girls were doable in a very much enjoyable manner.
In general the above set represents my typical visit for the last two years. No outliers, no regrets. Not too homogeneous, enough dispersion / diversity to entertain to highest extent.
What would I do differently? Perhaps exclude some hopeless drama actresses from the very beginning. I am an OK judge of character, and with some of them intuition told me not to engage, yet I did. Probably mostly for vanity sake and out of research curiosity. Kiev girls are also great with selling the promise of immense happiness around the corner.
I would also stay more frequently or longer with 4 of my LT partners, but one of them had college finals away from Kiev. I also like variety. No regrets in that respect, as variety means trial and error. Even some of the known in the past change, wear out, and become less analogue (sincerely passionate), more digital (fake, going through the motions).
Hope this is useful, or at least entertaining.
PhotoSlider
07-09-19, 23:51
How did I find all these 39+2 girls, one might ask? The very same shotgun approach, as explained in prior posts, and used by others.
I rely on established regular girls and grind through hourly call girls from agency consolidators casting a net, and sifting through. Mamba is just as good, I didn't get a chance to explore it.
I usually get phone numbers from 25-30% of hourly call girls, and transform into an LT regular no more than 5%. That means out 39 I kept 2. And it is precisely that - 2 new girls after my last visit.
Visiting only for 2-3-7 days means you will have much shorter data set, and more deviation from the average. Forum members witnessed my struggles one of the Friday nights when I had tickets to theater and literally nobody to go with. I ended up selling those tickets at the cost, having a failed threesome at midnight that transitioned into a passionate mating with one of those ladies, then having her again two days later and ditching for good because of too much drama and hustling. The road in Kiev is not always paved with roses.
Miracles do happen, and if you are lucky, you may find your jewel. We repeatedly saw Forum reports to that effect.
Longer visit and ability to discard bad ones easily, quickly recover and proceed, means you can establish a wider circle of more reliable young ladies.
I exchange contacts within Forum only after meeting in person in Kiev, and with those members that I already know. So please do not waste your time asking. You know my approach, perhaps you can execute the same.
From everything I'm reading here it looks like it's going to be hard enough to meet girls, but is it a bridge too far to procure a girl who does not smoke? I can't stand girls who smoke on my time, russia was the worst when it came to that. She is compensated to put her lips around ME, not a stinking cigarette HAHA.
PhotoSlider
07-10-19, 01:16
Hi guys,
I was in Kiev last week and had good fuck with mamba girls and 2 from apartments. I'm already thinking of my next trip, do clubs in Kiev worth the visit? Any good addresses?Standard answer: "It depends".
If you have difficulties in clubs of your own country, then it'll be no different in Ukraine. Confidence, body language, ability to pass the visual screening by Kiev girls will play a role.
I know for a fact that some foreign guys scored in Kiev clubs multiple times literally within the last week.
For example if you are a DJ in NYC, or LA, then you can figure it out even if you are 40+.
However, it would be taking it too far, if you think Kiev girls will hit on you just because you walked in.
I am not a good source of information on clubs, but it seems you did fine with Mamba. Read back for 6-12 months, there's always a chance.
PhotoSlider
07-10-19, 01:28
From everything I'm reading here it looks like it's going to be hard enough to meet girls, but is it a bridge too far to procure a girl who does not smoke? I can't stand girls who smoke on my time, russia was the worst when it came to that. She is compensated to put her lips around ME, not a stinking cigarette HAHA.I insisted on ordering non-smoking girls + classy, good manners, etc.
And some of the girls were smokers, but they always ask for permission. And I always deny it, as I do not smoke myself, and do not want to smell even a hint of it.
Keep in mind the chain of command:
You call or communicate via Viber with consolidating dispatcher.
Dispatcher talks to an agent, who manages one or several apartments.
They send whichever girl is available and makes sense in terms of logistics right this moment.
At any link this sequence may include someone not telling the truth, and there is no way to confirm reliably, because these days everything is done remotely, unless you physically go into the apartment and sniff them out one at a time.
And one more comment:
- You think she is compensated to do certain things for you.
- Everybody on the girl's side thinks you should compensate for her time, no matter what.
To provider you are no more than a walking ATM, unless you prove you are a reliable repeat customer, and it is in their interest to keep you happy, thus increasing profit.
PhotoSlider
07-10-19, 05:06
...There was one more LT candidate, gorgeous lady and great all around, charging only $150 an hour regardless of the length of stay, and allowing all I want plus more, but she travels a lot, and for the last two weeks 2 of LT ladies monopolized my apartment in an alternating pattern almost exclusively...Correction to the above. It was 150 USD or 4000 UAH for the duration of stay, usually 6-10 hours, regardless of length. One of my favorite performers.
PhotoSlider
07-10-19, 05:15
...I usually get phone numbers from 25-30% of hourly call girls, and transform into an LT regular no more than 5%. That means out 39 I kept 2. And it is precisely that - 2 new girls after my last visit...Clarification on potential contradiction:
My previous post states that I didn't find anybody new, and here I say I did. Poor verbiage, my bad. Should be more concise and careful.
What I meant to say: I qualified these two girls as LT candidates. One of them I fucked already, and admiration is totally mutual. She actually contacted me first upon my departure. I speak to both of them regularly while away from Kiev now, and expect to meet more than once during next visit. Therefore they are LT candidates. Time will tell if my hopes are justified.
PhotoSlider
07-10-19, 06:15
...In 5 weeks I had 39 different girls. Challenged by my Kiev friend, but definitely not trying to achieve any records. Half of those girls were definitely fuckable, especially after artificial celibacy in the West. That half was good one way or the other. Sufficiently hot looks, passionate, or both...One more clarification (too bad I cannot edit what has been posted)
What I meant to say above that out of 39 girls 17 were great by appearance or in bed, 8 out 17 were beautiful. That leaves 9 still quite attractive and great performers. 8 were bad.
39 - (8 beatutiful +8 bad) = 23 girls or 60% that I call "definitely fuckable". A little more than half.
Another way to look at it:
39 - (17 great + 8 bad) = 14 girls or 36%. These I have pictures of, and no recollection. Good or bad. And I included them in the above 23 and 60%.
Enough crunching the numbers.
Recollecting recent visit to Kiev, I tried to analyze it statistically, and here is what has been found:
... ... ...
Hope this is useful, or at least entertaining.
Photoslider, YOU are the jewel, stay awesome man! Your information is nothing less than par excellence. If you're there in Kiev between July 17th and Sept. 19th, I'd love to buy you a coffee (or beer).
PhotoSlider
07-10-19, 14:09
Photoslider, YOU are the jewel, stay awesome man! Your information is nothing less than par excellence. If you're there in Kiev between July 17th and Sept. 19th, I'd love to buy you a coffee (or beer)."Jewel" praise is reserved for young ladies, but thank you.
Sorry about my incoherent flow of conscience, and especially errors, mistakes and inaccuracies. Doing my best reporting on events.
Wish I could join you in Kiev.
What the majority says here is true and tinder plus mamba work very well. Tinder is going crazy, I have 10-15 plus x chicks per day rolling in, starting to ping after hitting the airport. Scala 8-10. Yep, 70% you have to weed out as they're down the boyfriend / serious route, 2 are not to your liking and either the other 2 you can choose from or then one is out for the bad conditions. Mamba is the best so far, I dated 4 beauties, but had to send 1 away as the profile pic did rather match the overall look, but her appearance went down in the meantime: teeth were a mess, she looked not so well. If you can't score something in the cafés etc, and if you only have time for a few days, eventually you can go below, but 1-3 h cost 100-120 usd. Not many girls negotiate, its pay or bust. Seems they have plenty of requests of men that pay that price. I was wondering that sex with no condoms is on offer? Maybe there are some into this, but its not my cuppa. Seems money is that scarce that I had to buy them.
Thanks to mamba I have 2 more coming, both I have, dated' prior to my arrival. Also its true that unless you are in town, communication is 100% business oriented and the girls focus on today only. That's it for now.
1 Month in Kiev.
I was in Kiev 2 years ago in summer 2017. A lot has changed since then.
Before, the apartment scene was bad. Most places you called were outcall (to your hotel) only. This meant you had to wait 1-2 hours for a girl to show up. 50/50 she was older or fatter. In 2 months I only found 1 apartment I could visit, and it was bad service.
But. Erotic massage spas were plentiful and great. You could find them easily on google maps. Prices were 600-700 uah per hour.
Odessa was much better for in call apartments so I went there instead, also Kharkiv. But Kiev has the best massage spas.
This year in 2019, I have been for 1 month. Visited almost 10 massage spas. They are all bad now. Either old and fat or overpriced. Advertised prices said 700-1000. Arrived and they wanted 1,200 uah without touching. 1,300-1,500 gets you a normal happy ending and touching of intimate areas and a bad massage. In 2017, there was Salon Dolly, and a few other ones I can't remember the name of that gave great massages and were 600 uah. Now it's double the price. Any idea why, or what happened? And why did Dolly shut down?
Good news is for sex Kiev in summer 2019 is good. All places I have called accept incall to their apartment. Prices have ranged from 1,300 uah - 1,800 uah.
1,100 - Pattaya Massage + Happy Ending. In a cave, nice place. Three girls, all chubby. Not worth visiting again.
1,600 - Sex. I was lucky, the first place was a good one. Okay apartment in the center. 1,300 one our. Beautiful girl. 20 years old. Nice body. I went to her again 4 times!
1,600 - Sex. She went back to her hometown. I took another girl, 20 years old. A little bit chubby. Also okay. The other girl there was attractive but 32+ years old.
1,800 - Sex. Busy apartment near Arena City / Gulliver. 2 chubby girls for 1,700 each, I said no. Two more girls from upstairs apartment came down. One was blonde, short haired, beautiful. Okay experience overall.
1,300 - Sex. A bit out of the center. 25 minute taxi. Hard to find, old large apartment building. 3 girls, all attractive. Took the 27 year old. Good value.
Strip Clubs. All cost 250-400 uah to enter. Some offer sex there or at your apartment for 3,000 uah, which is overpriced. One place near Arena city is 2,000, unmarked red door + 250 to enter, but the most hot girl was 3,100 which was too overpriced.
Massage Parlors. All have been overpriced, bad or shut down so far. Example: Relax. Advertised 700-900, wanted 1,400.
Overall. Ukraine and Kiev is hit or miss. You need 1-2 months to find good places even trying everyday. Girls come and go. Places open and shut. You need to speak a little basic Russian, or you will overpay. If paying 80 euros, just go to Germany or Barcelona instead, it's easier there. No BS. Athens has 20 euro red light brother streets. Kiev is 30% more expensive than Kharkiv. Odessa is similar to Kiev. I love coming to Ukraine but would never recommend it to anyone coming for less than 4 weeks who does not speak Russian.
Looking for. If anyone knows of a good Massage place that is 1,000 uah an hour or less with attractive thin, under 25 girls, including touching, tell us. In Kharkiv and Odessa, the price is 600 uah for 1 hour.
PhotoSlider
07-10-19, 21:25
Your information is nothing less than par excellence. If you're there in Kiev between July 17th and Sept. 19th...September should be better for you, when students return to classes and wider selection becomes available. So, be prepared for an uphill battle in July and August.
Also, if I am not mistaken, you do not speak Russian. I do. There are different schools of thought on this subject, I personally think it helps me to establish stronger relationships without spending too much time and money.
I see so much written about kharkiv here in the Kiev board, but the actual kharkiv board has nothing in it corroborating the high reviews. From my experience in life, REAL talent has a raging fire in its belly that can only be satisfied by venues that host a robust marketplace, it has ZERO tolerance for the idea of languishing in the oblivion of limited opportunity. That goes for everything, not just the hobby. The kharkiv board seems to agree. And the absurd lack of pics seems to support this claim.
There's an abundance of videos out there now of amateur adventure travelers who go to the most remote areas of earth. The only thing waiting for anybody in these places, is a whole lot of nothing. Don't be telling the forum that the 18 year old Emily Ratajkowski just hangs out at tsalbo oblast bustation all day long handing out bbbjs for a pocket full of candy corn. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.
What the majority says here is true and tinder plus mamba work very well. Tinder is going crazy, I have 10-15 plus x chicks per day rolling in, starting to ping after hitting the airport. Scala 8-10. Yep, 70% you have to weed out as they're down the boyfriend / serious route, 2 are not to your liking and either the other 2 you can choose from or then one is out for the bad conditions. Mamba is the best so far, I dated 4 beauties, but had to send 1 away as the profile pic did rather match the overall look, but her appearance went down in the meantime: teeth were a mess, she looked not so well. If you can't score something in the cafs etc, and if you only have time for a few days, eventually you can go below, but 1-3 h cost 100-120 usd. Not many girls negotiate, its pay or bust. Seems they have plenty of requests of men that pay that price. I was wondering that sex with no condoms is on offer? Maybe there are some into this, but its not my cuppa. Seems money is that scarce that I had to buy them.
Thanks to mamba I have 2 more coming, both I have, dated' prior to my arrival. Also its true that unless you are in town, communication is 100% business oriented and the girls focus on today only. That's it for now.Photos or it ain't real. LOL.
DramaFree11
07-11-19, 03:54
Sorry, I will only post when there is miss information. 7-10, in Kiev no way, read my previous posts, just almost impossible. They were not there 3 years ago and I am sure it is way worse, now. You can read my previous posts, for more examples. I am one of the few that actually lived in Kiev for over a year, on different occasions.
Spreading this delusion is real reckless. Veterans know the truth but continue to post these exaggerations.
Strip Clubs. All cost 250-400 uah to enter. Some offer sex there or at your apartment for 3,000 uah, which is overpriced. One place near Arena city is 2,000, unmarked red door + 250 to enter, but the most hot girl was 3,100 which was too overpriced.Which clubs did you visit?
PhotoSlider
07-11-19, 16:25
I see so much written about kharkiv here in the Kiev board, but the actual kharkiv board has nothing in it corroborating the high reviews. From my experience in life, REAL talent has a raging fire in its belly that can only be satisfied by venues that host a robust marketplace, it has ZERO tolerance for the idea of languishing in the oblivion of limited opportunity. That goes for everything, not just the hobby. The kharkiv board seems to agree. And the absurd lack of pics seems to support this claim.
There's an abundance of videos out there now of amateur adventure travelers who go to the most remote areas of earth. The only thing waiting for anybody in these places, is a whole lot of nothing. Don't be telling the forum that the 18 year old Emily Ratajkowski just hangs out at tsalbo oblast bustation all day long handing out bbbjs for a pocket full of candy corn. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night.I know one successful veteran of this Forum, and one ex-GIA exquisite lady that go to Kharkiv from Kiev to get off. Neither posts on Forum, but they talk behind the scenes.
You do not see evidence, Stefan, doesn't mean action doesn't exist. Not everybody broadcasts, many prefer stealth mode not to reveal their business methods to competition, and simply because they do not need to boast and get somebody else's praise to feel great.
1+ Million population in Ukraine presents an opportunity. Preparation is surely required for Kharkiv, and myself would have more fun in Kiev, but Kharkiv is not nearly as dead as Lviv. More students and different mentality than in the Western Ukraine.
Do the math. $6000 in total.
Links here from both sides of the Waters and it's not exactly Breaking News.
https://www.foxnews.com/travel/sex-island-returns-secret-las-vegas-party
http://www.ladbible.com/news/news-sex-island-reveals-itinerary-for-nevada-vacation-20190610
Hi guys,
I have 1 night layover in Kiev in mid September.
First time!
I have read a few pages but for just one night, there is no time to do my own research on site.
Which club would you recommend for a quick taste of Kiev?
Or reliable website with low risk of bait and switch?
For a first timer, not trying to save money, just looking for good experience and service.
Appreciate any input and recommendations.
Biz.
PhotoSlider
07-11-19, 18:25
Hi guys,
I have 1 night layover in Kiev in mid September.
First time!
I have read a few pages but for just one night, there is no time to do my own research on site.
Which club would you recommend for a quick taste of Kiev?
Or reliable website with low risk of bait and switch?
For a first timer, not trying to save money, just looking for good experience and service.
Appreciate any input and recommendations.
Biz.Too short of a visit. Hit and miss. Most likely a miss.
Katia at Kiev Escort Club (online escort ordering service) used to be very good a year ago. She starts at $250/ hour.
Liza seems good, but her personality has not been verified by credible sources. $300.
Reliable websites? Forget it. There is no such thing in Kiev as reliable. Higher price loosely correlate with quality, it may mean better appearance and low quality service.
Kiev has different mindset. Random stochastic business process. Even the above two ladies might have changed, or simply not be available when you visit.
You can try any website 2-3-4 times, and maybe, just maybe 1st (or 3rd) girl will be to your liking.
Recently Tinder seems to work for some of the visitors. Mamba is only good when you are on the ground, and you don't have sufficient time.
Good luck!
As I said more than once on this thread, I fully respect all opinions including yours of course, But some opinions sound more like an emotional outburst than an objective insight into the scene in Kiev.
Just to put you in the picture. My first experience with Eastern Europe was Prague back in late 88 when I was a care free student doing the usual adventures backpacking trips. I found Prague then to be Sex heaven for freebies.
At the time Prague followed by Budapest was a lot of fun compared to other cities and towns I did in EE& Central Europe then and in recent years. In fact I found Prague to be still a lot of fun on my return visit few weeks ago after nearly 30 years.
My recent and past observations, Prague is livelier than Kiev but Kiev's girls are on a much higher beauty scale than all the girls of EE and central Europe followed by Polish girls. I wouldn't know about Russian girls in Moscow..My latest post re Sex Island Holidays with the latest venue in Vegas was a price comparison exercise, that said, Buffet or a la carte kinda of mongering?
Having spent the last 2 years in Poland and Ukraine I am surprised myself to conclude that Polish girls are on average more beautiful than Ukrainians.
I mean I can't walk around large cities in Poland without seeing such beautiful girls every few minutes, the like of which I can only remember in Scandinavia. But this may have a lot to do with the fact that Poles today have more money to beautify themselves.
And of course what's so good about Polish girls when they are much harder to get anyway?
Oh, and Polish girls are also hanging in London until Brexit, lol.Been away from London for some time and now I find most of the attractive Polish girls are very difficult to find in London unlike previous years I am not a big fan of Trafficked, Controlled Romanian and Chinese Girls.
LOL, you can say https://www.bollockstobrexit.com as far as our mongering preferences are concerned.
Do the math. $6000 in total. (4 days, 100 girls)
Problem is same as Kyiv: no guarantees as to quality, whether looks or attitude. What incentive do girls have to please customers? Can organizers really recruit top quality girls, or are they cynically planning to supply rubbish, knowing customers have no legal recourse. Even if girls are okay, you may not like the group dynamics. Same as with any package tour: stuck spending 4 days with a crowd of people who you may not like. At least it's not a cruise ship, so you could just leave early and forfeit the $6000. Also, the way I do the math is $6000/4 days = $1500 / day, which is hardly a bargain.
Too short of a visit. Hit and miss. Most likely a miss.
Katia at Kiev Escort Club (online escort ordering service) used to be very good a year ago. She starts at $250/ hour.
Liza seems good, but her personality has not been verified by credible sources. $300.
Reliable websites? Forget it. There is no such thing in Kiev as reliable. Higher price loosely correlate with quality, it may mean better appearance and low quality service.
Kiev has different mindset. Random stochastic business process. Even the above two ladies might have changed, or simply not be available when you visit.
You can try any website 2-3-4 times, and maybe, just maybe 1st (or 3rd) girl will be to your liking.
Recently Tinder seems to work for some of the visitors. Mamba is only good when you are on the ground, and you don't have sufficient time.
Good luck!
I know, short stay is a problem. It's a bit depressing. :(
Is there a good club for take out?
Thank you for the information.
PhotoSlider
07-12-19, 03:52
I know, short stay is a problem. It's a bit depressing. :(
Is there a good club for take out?
Thank you for the information.Kiev is not Dubai, and it doesn't have German FKKs. River Palace is long time gone.
There is an abundance of clubs at the Arena and throughout the City, I stopped going to those 6 years ago because it stopped making sense to me, and never did, I am not the type.
Rio Strip Club has take out for $300 for few hours, and ratio of good looking girls to lazy ones and those with cellulite is 1 to 5 or even lower depending on the hour or day of the week.
Set your expectations low, be prepared that you will not score, and then you will not be disappointed. Or maybe even you'll get a good girl at Rio, and she'll make it a night to remember.
I had a newbie from Rio in 2015, that was a great check out.
Scarlet Strip Club is so-so, looked empty to me in November 2017. Recent visitors liked it. There are complaints about Darling and other ones.
PhotoSlider
07-12-19, 04:01
Problem is same as Kyiv: no guarantees as to quality, whether looks or attitude. What incentive do girls have to please customers? Can organizers really recruit top quality girls, or are they cynically planning to supply rubbish, knowing customers have no legal recourse. Even if girls are okay, you may not like the group dynamics. Same as with any package tour: stuck spending 4 days with a crowd of people who you may not like. At least it's not a cruise ship, so you could just leave early and forfeit the $6000. Also, the way I do the math is $6000/4 days = $1500 / day, which is hardly a bargain.Agree. Never liked the idea of cruise ship.
This island might be as depressing as Nevada Chicken Ranch or Bunny Ranch. Girls on videos look past the expiration date. Where is the excitement and joy of having a slim youthful lady radiating happiness?
Leave early? I don't think so. Hiking through Nevada desert is risky.
I prefer choosing from more than a 100 girls, and having a better ratio than 50 boys past their midlife crisis years against 100 29-35 years old MIDWF (Moms I don't want to fuck).
Sorry, I will only post when there is miss information. 7-10, in Kiev no way, read my previous posts, just almost impossible. They were not there 3 years ago and I am sure it is way worse, now. You can read my previous posts, for more examples. I am one of the few that actually lived in Kiev for over a year, on different occasions.
Spreading this delusion is real reckless. Veterans know the truth but continue to post these exaggerations.I can't share pics, so. Check on mamba, Allina, 27, red blonde hair. Wears a shirt on flix saying,. Worst 10 minutes of my life'. Pics look retouched, but she is 100% that girl. If she isn't an 8/9. Let me know what you consider one?
Look for schenia (written with that kyrillic sh), black hair, olive green shirt. If she ain't an 8/9. Let me know who is then?
Look for Daria, 23, sits on a cabin of a Ferris wheel or lays in bed with white shirt on. [CodeWord901] (http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord901) style, an 8 for me. Then there is alëna, blond girl, on 2 pics she is naked. Killer body, 10 for me please. All mamba, all seen and spent time with, look the same live as on pictures.
Standard answer: "It depends".
If you have difficulties in clubs of your own country, then it'll be no different in Ukraine. Confidence, body language, ability to pass the visual screening by Kiev girls will play a role.
I know for a fact that some foreign guys scored in Kiev clubs multiple times literally within the last week.
For example if you are a DJ in NYC, or LA, then you can figure it out even if you are 40+.
However, it would be taking it too far, if you think Kiev girls will hit on you just because you walked in.
I am not a good source of information on clubs, but it seems you did fine with Mamba. Read back for 6-12 months, there's always a chance.Good point. I'm not a big fan of club & loud music in my own country so yeah, not the best idea. I was thinking that pro or semi-pro girls looking for sponsors would go out somewhere at night but they probably stay home waiting and looking at their phone.
DramaFree11
07-12-19, 17:43
I can't share pics, so. Check on mamba, Allina, 27, red blonde hair. Wears a shirt on flix saying. Worst 10 minutes of my life'. Pics look retouched, but she is 100% that girl. If she isn't an 8/9. Let me know what you consider one?
Look for scheniblack hair, olive green shirt. If she ain't an 8/9. Let me know who is then?
Look for Daria, 23, sits on a cabin of a Ferris wheel or lays in bed with white shirt on. An 8 for me. Then there is alna, blond girl, on 2 pics she is naked. Killer body, 10 for me please. All mamba, all seen and spent time with, look the same live as on pictures.
99.5% online profiles in Kiev are fake or touched up, probably more. Just read 20 pages and you find out how big of an issue this is. This is an illusion that has been created in Kiev. I deal in the real world not a fantasy world that is online in Kiev.
My latest post re Sex Island Holidays with the latest venue in Vegas was a price comparison exercise, that said, Buffet or a la carte kinda of mongering?In the interest of Research which reveals; Organisers, who say they have a 'strict condom policy', will refund the guest who has sex with the most women.
My friend, I am not here to have an argument with a guy who can barely speak English and doesn't know what Miami is. I could barely understand what you were getting at with half of what you said. But depending on what your standards are and what kind of experience you want you will have different experiences, but the truth of the matter is that there is a diaspora going on.
I met a girl once on one of these websites who wanted to come travel and asked for nothing. Six months later the next time we traveled she asked for $300. A year later she asked for $2,000 to go and I said no. The reason is that she saw some of the world and re-evaluated her worth. Any girl who is above standard looking in Kiev is going to be way above standard looking elsewhere. I can see her photos on social media so someone is paying for it because she continues to go everywhere she wants to go. I know a good number of these girls who are model quality in looks and they have a constant stream of photos from Monaco, Dubai, Maldives, Paris, London, Switzerland. The carousel never stops. These five star hotel rooms are not paid for at checkin with a smile.
They have options to go, so they go. I have friends who have had the private jet sent for them from Dubai to pick them up.
These girls are not standing around on the street to meet 55 year old guys with pot bellies from Istanbul and argue with them over 1000 UAH.
Why are they going to go to a club like Rio and work every night with the hope of taking home $500 or $1000 in a week when someone will throw $3 k at them over social media to join them for a week in Monaco or Maldives?
What is happening is simple economics.
1. The barriers to access for foreigners to come to Ukraine continue to fall (went from soviet style visa requirements to visa free travel). This means more competition.
2. Local wealth only ever goes up meaning ever less reason for one of them to spend their time with you. More competition.
3. Barriers to access to the rest of the world for the girls continues to fall which means that the best go to the best opportunities (more competition) and leave behind those who can't achieve those best opportunities (less supply).
4. Instagram is showing them the world and showing them to the world and they want to go places, and people want to take them and will pay.
I made the mistake once of reviewing a hotel on Tripadvisor that had no reviews and it was a small luxury hotel and quite beautiful. It was priced above midrange but was great value for the luxury. Three years after I made this posting the price was so high I couldn't go there anymore. Now, eventually the secret would get out. Information can't stay locked up as much as we'd like it to be locked up.
Once that happens economics takes over.
Once a 10/10 perfect blonde realizes that some guy in Miami (google it) will send her $10,000 to come over for one week, she is off the pole at Rio dude. She is not going to be standing at the bar in Buddha Bar 4 days a week hoping to find one guy to get $500 out of.
I know a blonde who had one guy send her $4000 just for her to "get a visa", let alone what he's going to give her when she gets there. He hasn't even met this girl yet and he sent her this.
All of the above is an inevitable spiral.
There will always be little anecdotes of things being different. When the tide goes out there are still a few waves that come up the shoreline. But the tide is inevitable. The more open Ukraine gets, the more opportunities there are abroad and the more people read people's fantasy posts on this board where they exaggerate a homely girl into some playboy model that they conquered in order to get some worthless points for impressing punters online that they will never meet. The more of those posts that are made, the more guys will strap on their boots and come to Ukraine.
The girls go, and the men arrive, and the locals make more money: and that means the same thing it always means: quality goes down, expense goes up, old timers complain it isn't like it used to be and wonder why.
Well every girl who is 5/10 that you guys bang and then brag about it here you convince one more guy to come to Kiev and compete with you for what's left. For the rest of it, you can't control it and when the visa wall comes down every last half decent looking girl is going to leave and try her luck elsewhere. There is more money out there than there are beautiful girls. So, you will be left in the tank with whatever wasn't good enough to leave, fighting for the scraps with the 50 year old dudes from Istanbul with their big bellies. Competing over the fat girls and the ugly girls and those of us who saw it before the decline will have the memory of it before it changed..I agree with your words. You need to be an idiot not to see these obvious processes. But. But similar processes are taking place not only in Ukraine. Is it not the cost of a beautiful young girl growing in Colombia? Why Ukraine should be an exception? The standard of living is growing everywhere. Even in Africa! But what is the alternative? What are you offering? Yes, what you write is largely true. Although the scale of emigration of beautiful girls from Ukraine to the West is somewhat exaggerated. I often go to the Ukrainian province and I see a huge number of beautiful girls. For example, in Poland and Latvia, the standard of living of girls is quite high. Salary in Latvia is 700 euros on average. This is a country a member of the European Union. Every girl in Latvia can freely travel to the richest countries of the Western World. England, Ireland, Germany, Netherlands. Latvian girl unlike Ukrainian has even the right of legal employment in these countries. And nevertheless many guys from England each year fly to Poland and Latvia to fuck local cheap girls. Just talk to Polish girls. Many of them not away to earn your pussy. Just need to go to a nightclub in Warsaw or Krakow. Same in Latvia. And the city of Riga is one of the capitals of world sex tourism. ! This is not a poor Ukraine, gentlemen! This is Latvia! A country that is in the European Union! Ukraine will never be in the EU. If you follow this logic, then Latvia and Riga should have died a long time as a route for sex tourism. But this is not so! Riga and now accepts a large number of sex tourists. Why these guys from Scotland and Ireland will not stay on their islands to fuck Scottish and Irish girls? Probably because it is expensive. Because a beautiful prostitute in England or Ireland is significant money. Because the standard of living in England or Ireland is still several times higher than in Latvia. And, of course, higher than in Ukraine. . what do we see? Latvia, in contrast to Ukraine, made a fantastic success. It modernized the economy. Finished with the Soviet methods of management in economics and politics. Made reforms. Accepted huge Western investments (which I don't see huge investments in Ukraine) . She eventually became a member of the European Union! This is not a corrupt and impoverished Ukraine, where many girls in the provinces work for 180-200 dollars in a shop. But it still did not save Latvia from such a phenomenon as sex tourism!
I can't share pics, so. Check on mamba, Allina, 27, red blonde hair. Wears a shirt on flix saying. Worst 10 minutes of my life'. Pics look retouched, but she is 100% that girl. If she isn't an 8/9. Let me know what you consider one?
Look for scheniblack hair, olive green shirt. If she ain't an 8/9. Let me know who is then?
Look for Daria, 23, sits on a cabin of a Ferris wheel or lays in bed with white shirt on. An 8 for me. Then there is alna, blond girl, on 2 pics she is naked. Killer body, 10 for me please. All mamba, all seen and spent time with, look the same live as on pictures.
99.5% online profiles in Kiev are fake or touched up, probably more. Just read 20 pages and you find out how big of an issue this is. This is an illusion that has been created in Kiev. I deal in the real world not a fantasy world that is online in Kiev.Quit complaining.
Not everyone has the same negative attitude towards Ukraine.
You constantly claim that people whom have had bad experiences never share but that's not the case. I see about 50/50 on both good and bad experiences. Probably more bad experiences than good since 1 out of every other 5 posts on here is of you constantly repeating the same thing over and over again. That Ukraine sucks and hot chicks apparently don't exist there. WE GET THE MESAAGE.
I have nothing personally against but geez give it a rest already.
For anyone that's coming from the States, Ukraine is awesome if you like blondes. I don't care what anyone says, it costs you 3 times plus here in the States for the kind of action you'the get over there even with the inflated prices complainers are constantly whinin about.
I don't partake in the scene anymore as I'm married now to a Ukrainian. She was one of the many girls I met during my time there. I met her on Tinder of all places and it was ended up being completely non-professional I've been plenty of times since but prior to meeting her I'the only been there twice for a week at a time. It's true that the less socially awkward you are and physically appealing he easier it is just like anywhere else in the world. Age tends to be less of a factor. Obviously better if you wear your age well. Tried out GIA and met so many others using various avenues. Okcupid, plenty of fish, tinder, and Facebook. Some pros and some not but I honestly never had a bad experience. Bottom line for me is that it' was way easier to meet women in Ukraine than it would be here in the States. That's both for mongering and just hanging out. I'm talking about blonde Slavic women, not Asian, not South American, or other ethnicities.
My excuse for being here is that I still like to keep up and live vicariously through others. It's fun to envy all the adventures you guys get to have.
It just annoys me how people can't just allow others to make their own judgments based on what they read. We are all adults we can think for ourselves. State your opinion and let other decide for themselves.
PhotoSlider
07-13-19, 05:43
...Just need to go to a nightclub in Warsaw or Krakow. Same in Latvia. And the city of Riga is one of the capitals of world sex tourism. ! This is not a poor Ukraine, gentlemen! This is Latvia! A country that is in the European Union! Ukraine will never be in the EU. If you follow this logic, then Latvia and Riga should have died a long time as a route for sex tourism. But this is not so! Riga and now accepts a large number of sex tourists...Latvia and Prosperity? Riga the Capital of sex tourism? I am laughing my ass off.
Riga is the same as Detroit now. Dead city with marginal downtown and shrinking population. Finding a good escort is mostly an exercise in futility.
Speaking from personal experience.
TKatia at Kiev Escort Club (online escort ordering service) used to be very good a year ago. She starts at $250/ hour.
Liza seems good, but her personality has not been verified by credible sources. $300.!How do you grade Katia and Liza in your black book? 1 to 10.
PhotoSlider
07-13-19, 06:10
I can't share pics, so. Check on mamba, Allina, 27, red blonde hair. Wears a shirt on flix saying,. Worst 10 minutes of my life'. Pics look retouched, but she is 100% that girl. If she isn't an 8/9. Let me know what you consider one?
Look for schenia (written with that kyrillic sh), black hair, olive green shirt. If she ain't an 8/9. Let me know who is then?
Look for Daria, 23, sits on a cabin of a Ferris wheel or lays in bed with white shirt on. ...style, an 8 for me. Then there is alna, blond girl, on 2 pics she is naked. Killer body, 10 for me please. All mamba, all seen and spent time with, look the same live as on pictures.I am so jealous! Seriously, no jokes.
If only right now I could sit outdoors and watch them go by, or take underground metro, or even just walk around appreciating the beauties strolling back and forth.
It certainly baffles and bewilders me: Mathematically speaking top 30 out of 100 women that I meet downtown Kiev should be no less than 8. So I took a piece of paper and a pen, and started rating them. First of all I had to restart couple times due to distractions and having difficulty to concentrate on the task at hand, but after working out the proper process it appeared that there were at least a few irregularities:
There were more than 30% of 8's. And believe me, I am a picky assessor of female beauty.
Percentage of attractive women was much higher than 50.
Now, to make it trustworthy, I wasn't drunk. It was in the afternoon. No rain. Perhaps my vantage point provided skewed data, because it was downtown. One was ballerina, and I literally knew her name. Few tall and very fit ones were leaving their expensive cars for valet parking running into the gym. There was also much less older and middle aged women, which is fine with me. Surely, most of them were dressed up, with perfect hair and make up. Nothing wrong with that either.
Yes, there are beautiful young ladies in NYC, San Diego, Madrid, but OMG! Nowhere near the concentration of those in Kiev!
Thank for sharing your success, Trent23.
Waiting for more reports from others, as we are nearing the midpoint of Summer.
I'm looking for sexy jobs advertising websites used by Ukrainian girls, any idea? Something like https://red-life.net/ but in Ukrainian thanks! Found https://flagma.ua, http://3.com. You and https://www.olx.ua but can't find sexy jobs. My idea is to let the girls coming to me with paid ads instead of chasing her. Does it worth a try?
Kiev is not Dubai, and it doesn't have German FKKs. River Palace is long time gone.
There is an abundance of clubs at the Arena and throughout the City, I stopped going to those 6 years ago because it stopped making sense to me, and never did, I am not the type.
Rio Strip Club has take out for $300 for few hours, and ratio of good looking girls to lazy ones and those with cellulite is 1 to 5 or even lower depending on the hour or day of the week.
Set your expectations low, be prepared that you will not score, and then you will not be disappointed. Or maybe even you'll get a good girl at Rio, and she'll make it a night to remember.
I had a newbie from Rio in 2015, that was a great check out.
Scarlet Strip Club is so-so, looked empty to me in November 2017. Recent visitors liked it. There are complaints about Darling and other ones.Oh man, that's a pretty grim picture.
So no clubs for mongers?
Just unreliable websites?
I was wondering how new girls get into private apartments in Kiev? How do they find brothel? You think they just look at sexkiev. Xyz or similar websites and give call? Or is there dedicated places on internet with sexy jobs in Ukraine? Maybe something like https://red-life.com.
More generally if I consider posting ads for the adult industry in Kiev how shall I proceed?
Thanks!
PhotoSlider
07-14-19, 05:04
I was wondering how new girls get into private apartments in Kiev? How do they find brothel? You think they just look at sexkiev. Xyz or similar websites and give call? Or is there dedicated places on internet with sexy jobs in Ukraine? Maybe something like https://red-life.com.
More generally if I consider posting ads for the adult industry in Kiev how shall I proceed?
Thanks!You would be competing against those providing protection to adult industry. Just a thought.
As chaotic as it seems, Kiev has certain rules. Money should flow in a certain direction and established proportions should be observed and respected.
Otherwise, Kozerog just posted URL to HR management for KEC. Some organizations do it through other means, ukrgo is one example. Agencies are penetrating everything, including Mamba and even Tinder.
I know of indies being harassed by law enforcement with the intent to extort money.
PhotoSlider
07-14-19, 05:18
Oh man, that's a pretty grim picture.
So no clubs for mongers?
Just unreliable websites?You want a Miracle. A drive-through service, where you pay and 10 rated girl will fulfill your every erotic desire? That doesn't exist in Kiev.
Rio.
Some say Caribbean, but that is only good when you arrive in all the shining armor and glory, while two or three Mamba girls from your previous visits might be already waiting, as they just promised over the Viber. Or maybe you'll go and get lucky. I am not saying impossible, just difficult and unlikely over a short period of time. Girls hunt online nowadays, not in clubs.
Otherwise change your tickets and fly through a different hub.
PhotoSlider
07-14-19, 05:50
How do you grade Katia and Liza in your black book? 1 to 10.I never met either one. And do not know what is "black" book.
To my taste appearance-wise Lisa looks at least 9. She is 26. Might be 28 IRL. I prefer 19-21 years old. Obviously beautified and enhanced through Photoshop, not sure how her breasts look today. Her first review was in 2016. I do not remember her pictures or even profile back then, but 3 years in this business is too long. Attitude is a major factor in my ratings. No bad reviews in English, I suspect some are fake (written by GIA or now KEC management). Russian reviews are mostly good, with few exceptions.
Katia is 24. At least an 8 body, simply because I prefer different type breasts, more like what Irina or even Liza has. Otherwise body is 9 or 10. Her being shorter (163) doesn't bother at all. Face expression and attitude are more important than face features. For her attitude please read JyMondor's report. A year ago in the right hands of a true gentleman and a skillful connoisseur she was 10+. They met a month before the GIA bust..[/QUOTE]If their prices started under 5000 UAH for the first hour back in 2016 I would order either one without hesitation. My last order from GIA was in December of 2017. There are substantially cheaper options, especially for multiple days.
Cheers!
I was wondering how new girls get into private apartments in Kiev? How do they find brothel? You think they just look at sexkiev. Xyz or similar websites and give call? Or is there dedicated places on internet with sexy jobs in Ukraine? Maybe something like https://red-life.com.
More generally if I consider posting ads for the adult industry in Kiev how shall I proceed?https://massazhka.com/ukraina/ focuses on sex work. You could advertise there. But unless you speak fluent Russian on the phone, girl will be suspicious. Maybe you plan to kidnap her and traffic her to a Turkish sex slave brothel? Even if she believes your story, what exactly are you offering that would attract her? One time sex at a low price? If you just want to cut out the middleman, why not just use mamba or tinder, then screen out agencies and civilians so that what remains are true independents and semi-pros?
https://massazhka.com/ukraina/ focuses on sex work. You could advertise there. But unless you speak fluent Russian on the phone, girl will be suspicious. Maybe you plan to kidnap her and traffic her to a Turkish sex slave brothel? Even if she believes your story, what exactly are you offering that would attract her? One time sex at a low price? If you just want to cut out the middleman, why not just use mamba or tinder, then screen out agencies and civilians so that what remains are true independents and semi-pros?Hi Kozerog and thank you for the link. Of course it is not my plan to kidnap the girl. My intention is to propose shooting in Kiev or elsewhere to those interested and I can offer much more than what they are actually paid. It is always good to start new challenge in life.
PhotoSlider,
Here is Katia old photos that were on gia, no photoshop, last yr her age was also 24 on their site.
It is always good to start new challenge in life.When was the best time to plant a tree?
20 years ago.
When is the SECOND best time to plant a tree?
TODAY.
You're not the only one who wants something new in life.
PhotoSlider
07-14-19, 22:03
Oh man, that's a pretty grim picture.
So no clubs for mongers?
Just unreliable websites?These days semi-pros and even pros prefer anonymity behind Viber and WhatsApp while looking for suitors.
Ukrainian working girls residing in Kiev but proposing their goods in Dubai clubs among similar working girls one thing. Kiev clubs are more heterogeneous. There are civilians of both genders. Hunting in Kiev club means exposure to the peers and beyond. Hunting in Kiev clubs means tarnished reputation at the real job and jeopardizing potential marriage.
Clubs exist, hunting in clubs exist, but it is not a simplified transactional experience, not the way it is done for example in Madrid now, or even in Kiev in the days of River Palace.
...Of course it is not my plan to kidnap the girl. My intention is to propose shooting in Kiev or elsewhere to those interested and I can offer much more than what they are actually paid. It is always good to start new challenge in life.Maybe I should have been more clear. Girls will be suspicious of any job offers if the person answering the phone is not a native speaker of Russian / Ukrainian. They will also be suspicious if a man answers, even if he's a local. Most agencies / brothels / strip clubs / etc use an older woman, the mamasan, to recruit and manage girls, since girls are more comfortable talking to a woman.
In other words, what you need to do is first recruit a Ukrainian mamasan, then let her recruit the girls for whatever you are planning.
Good porn with a Ukrainian girl. 21 year.
http://sexiporno.net/video/135/%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8F%D1%8F-%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%B5%D1%82-%D0%B4%D0%B2%D1%83%D1%85-%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%B8-%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%B5%D1%82-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%8F-%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B1%D1%8F-%D0%B2-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%83
I was wondering how new girls get into private apartments in Kiev? How do they find brothel? You think they just look at sexkiev. Xyz or similar websites and give call? Or is there dedicated places on internet with sexy jobs in Ukraine? Maybe something like https://red-life.com.
More generally if I consider posting ads for the adult industry in Kiev how shall I proceed?
Thanks!Quoting Jim Cramer, 'House of pain!' - just don't do it. Hire a 'reputable' local third party for your exploits.
PhotoSlider
07-15-19, 04:36
PhotoSlider,
Here is Katia old photos that were on gia, no photoshop, last yr her age was also 24 on their site.There is a filter applied to her face here as well, except the photographer was less experienced on older pictures.
KEC offers free portfolio photoshoot in Kiev's XXL-studio for newly hired girls. Some of the girls didn't want or didn't get it before.
Good porn with a Ukrainian girl. 21 year.
http://sexiporno.net/video/135/%D0%B4%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%B4%D1%86%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%BD%D1%8F%D1%8F-%D1%83%D0%BA%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%BA%D0%B0-%D1%83%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B0%D0%B5%D1%82-%D0%B4%D0%B2%D1%83%D1%85-%D0%BC%D1%83%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B2-%D0%B8-%D0%B4%D0%B0%D0%B5%D1%82-%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8C%D1%81%D1%8F-%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%B1%D1%8F-%D0%B2-%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%83The video is also 21 years old. Old. Old. Very old. I hope your photos and reports are not from the same time.
I know of indies being harassed by law enforcement with the intent to extort money.
My jewel won't take local clients precisely to avoid entrapment. Once she did arrange a meeting with undercover law enforcement, but then recognized him as local based on dress and voice and ran off. She dreads an arrest record. Several of her friends have also had encounters wth undercover police.
One of these friends decided to get out of escorting by marrying a foreigner, so I showed her the appropriate websites for American/Western European men seeking Ukrainian brides, and discussed how to write a profile that will appeal to American men, what to say/do during initial contacts and especially what to avoid saying/doing. IMO, ex-escort probably a much better deal for these wife hunters than the single mothers they usually get stuck with. Yes, she will probably eventually divorce any guy she marries, but he should get plenty of quality sex before that happens. Unlike civilians, professional escorts are used to having sex with men they don't find attractive, as long as they get what they want (money or USA/Western European citizenship, as the case may be).
... IMO, ex-escort probably a much better deal for these wife hunters than the single mothers they usually get stuck with....I fully agree that an ex escort girl could be a much better deal. I met already couple of girls here in Dnipro and Kiev in the last four days. The dicorced ladies all claimed their ex husbands to be the bad guys. No one thought that maybe also she was gulity. If I knew where to date an ex escort girl I would do it. But I have no clue whre to find such girls.
You want a Miracle. A drive-through service, where you pay and 10 rated girl will fulfill your every erotic desire? That doesn't exist in Kiev.
Rio.
Some say Caribbean, but that is only good when you arrive in all the shining armor and glory, while two or three Mamba girls from your previous visits might be already waiting, as they just promised over the Viber. Or maybe you'll go and get lucky. I am not saying impossible, just difficult and unlikely over a short period of time. Girls hunt online nowadays, not in clubs.
Otherwise change your tickets and fly through a different hub.I understand the point about being local, but I had no idea that Kiev had become such a shithole for mongering.
It's too bad.
I've had a dozen or so good quality chicks from ookraina, but all outside Ukraine.
DramaFree11
07-16-19, 02:56
Let's be clear about the see. See. Complete waste of time and resources. Maybe one of the worse Clubs I have ever been to in my life. Your better off just taking your chance calling working girls.
PhotoSlider
07-16-19, 03:51
I understand the point about being local, but I had no idea that Kiev had become such a shithole for mongering.
It's too bad.
I've had a dozen or so good quality chicks from ookraina, but all outside Ukraine.I wouldn't call it a shithole. Perhaps it doesn't fit your requirements.
While Ukrainian girls entertain you abroad, do not forget to take their Viber and WhataApp numbers. Then it would have been much easier to arrange for reliable escort while you flying through Kiev, and having a short stop over.
I fly in tomorrow, wish me luck boys, I'll use this forum board as my journal. The first thing I'm going to try and do is score me a khachapuri adjaruli. Its been tooo long, yummm!
The video is also 21 years old. Old. Old. Very old. I hope your photos and reports are not from the same time.Actually it is not 21 years old. The actress from the video turned 18 in 2001 & started porn in 2002.
Quoting Jim Cramer, 'House of pain!' - just don't do it. Hire a 'reputable' local third party for your exploits.Wise words & a very good advice.
Good porn with a Ukrainian girl. 21 year.
The girl is a porn star Alexa May. The video has been shot in Budapest & it is from 2003. So, the girl is now 36 years old & she was 20 when the video was shot. Some free info, I hope you will like it.
Member #4722
07-16-19, 18:50
Don't listen to this troll DramaFree who hasn't been to Kiev in more than three years. I am on the ground in Kiev and have been here about 7 times in two weeks. Many attractive girls here. Last week on Thursday I counted about 5 girls who rate 8 and a bunch of 7's. There is one blonde working here she is very tall and looks like the actress Daryl Hannah in her prime. JohnnyW was with me and saw her and can confirm. Too skinny for me and no ass but this girl is incredibly beautiful would probably be a 9 by most standards. It is not Studio 54 but there is a crowd and girls every night and it's generally a good time.
DramaFree11
07-16-19, 23:27
Don't listen to this troll DramaFree who hasn't been to Kiev in more than three years. I am on the ground in Kiev and have been here about 7 times in two weeks. Many attractive girls here. Last week on Thursday I counted about 5 girls who rate 8 and a bunch of 7's. There is one blonde working here she is very tall and looks like the actress Daryl Hannah in her prime. JohnnyW was with me and saw her and can confirm. Too skinny for me and no ass but this girl is incredibly beautiful would probably be a 9 by most standards. It is not Studio 54 but there is a crowd and girls every night and it's generally a good time.Completely disagree. That place was terrible then and I am sure it is worse now. You guys are totally out control with your ratings, and standards are incredibly low. There are 2 of you that claim all these hot girls are running the streets in Kiev and it is just not the case. How anyone can recommend that place completely insane.
I guess I am banging 18-20's, with your scale in Moscow, and other destinations.
...You guys are totally out control with your ratings, and standards are incredibly low. ....So much truth in this statement. I would add: what "ratings" do those guys have who constantly rate the girls?
And change of topic: Guys, please stop such aggressive discussions here! That belongs to the "stupic shit Kiev" discussion.
Completely disagree. That place was terrible then and I am sure it is worse now. You guys are totally out control with your ratings, and standards are incredibly low. There are 2 of you that claim all these hot girls are running the streets in Kiev and it is just not the case. How anyone can recommend that place completely insane.
I guess I am banging 18-20's, with your scale in Moscow, and other destinations.There are many hot girls on kreschatic, the problem is they many not be hookers.
So much truth in this statement. I would add: what "ratings" do those guys have who constantly rate the girls?
And change of topic: Guys, please stop such aggressive discussions here! That belongs to the "stupid shit Kiev" discussion.Everyone has different tastes. So, it is pointless to argue about ratings.
Jennifer Anniston and Megan Fox was so many people's "10" a decade ago, but they are 5'4 and not anywhere near what my "10" is.
Plus you need to factor in the person writing's age / height / location / looks, etc.
I have been seeing this 20 yo from Tinder. If I was 20 yo, she would be a 6 to 6.5. Since I am mid-40's she is totally an 8 to me.
Writing this from my phone sipping on an Americano at the Turkish cafe on K street at 1 am. IMHO there are a ridiculous concentration of ridiculously attractive girls here. Just ran into a taxi driver who speaks English who gave me the low-down. At 2500/ HR hyrivnia I am sure he's getting his but hey, ya got to start somewhere. Don't worry, I didn't procure his services yet but he show me his catalog and I like what I see. He also gave me useful info on a few other realities like the soviet AF nature of my apartment. More on that later haha.
PhotoSlider
07-18-19, 01:10
There are many hot girls on Kreschatic, the problem is they may not be hookers.You will never know until you ask.
Most of the ladies in Ukraine do not think of themselves as hookers. And it doesn't stop them from being available for compensation. They call it help or gift or anything else they like.
2500 UAH per an hour is a little high. 1500-2000 is the usual price range to start research.
PhotoSlider
07-18-19, 01:20
Everyone has different tastes. So, it is pointless to argue about ratings.
Jennifer Anniston and Megan Fox was so many people's "10" a decade ago, but they are 5'4 and not anywhere near what my "10" is.
Plus you need to factor in the person writing's age / height / location / looks, etc.
I have been seeing this 20 yo from Tinder. If I was 20 yo, she would be a 6 to 6.5. Since I am mid-40's she is totally an 8 to me.200% correct.
That is why I try to emphasize that ratings I quote are "my personal".
To me height is secondary or even tertiary. Attitude is above anything else. That is why judging the rate by photo is meaningless. Only in person, only recently, and only by the gentleman who is on the ground, and in contact with the lady in question. Likewise I could only speculate about Katia and Liza from KEC, as I never met either. JyMondor gave a trustworthy and detailed assessment.
Any assumptions, hearsay, extrapolations from prior experiences 3 years ago means zero, and is not helpful to anybody on this Forum.
Glad to see more real reports from the actual visitors as the summer moves on.
There are many hot girls on kreschatic, the problem is they many not be hookers.And where is then the problem?
Member #4623
07-18-19, 17:39
Hi everyone,
I hope you can help me with my question. I would like to have any suggestions regarding a safe and not expensive hotel. I am in contact with some girls and I will travel to Kiev next month. I am afraid to book an apartment and invite them there so I would prefer am hotel room or an hotel apartments. Do you know any place in the center where the girls can come in and out with no problem or fee? If the things go wrong with my contact I will call some escort and I would like to be in the hotel with no fear.
Thank to all for all the useful information shared here I hope to give my contribution soon.
Hi everyone,
I hope you can help me with my question. I would like to have any suggestions regarding a safe and not expensive hotel. I am in contact with some girls and I will travel to Kiev next month. I am afraid to book an apartment and invite them there so I would prefer am hotel room or an hotel apartments. Do you know any place in the center where the girls can come in and out with no problem or fee? If the things go wrong with my contact I will call some escort and I would like to be in the hotel with no fear.
Thank to all for all the useful information shared here I hope to give my contribution soon.Apartments are better and bigger, you have a kitchen. Bigger frig. , washing machine, try to rent the apts without concierge, never stayed in a hotel there.
AntonySun1996
07-19-19, 15:47
Hi gents,
I was away from the forum for a while as I have been on my internship in Beijing. Will be back in Kiev in August.
Just checked the exchange rate and found that the usd-grv rate was 25-ish. What the hell is going on? At the beginning this year it was 28 or something as far as I remember. Is Ukraine experiencing a boom in economy? How are you going to deal with situation? Do you think it is the right time to buy a large amount of grivnas to save future costs?
Anthony.
Member #4623
07-19-19, 17:55
Apartments are better and bigger, you have a kitchen. Bigger frig. , washing machine, try to rent the apts without concierge, never stayed in a hotel there.Thank you.
Don't you think it is dangerous to invite girls in the apartment? If they don't come alone? Do you have any nice apartment to suggest?
Thank you.
Don't you think it is dangerous to invite girls in the apartment? If they don't come alone? Do you have any nice apartment to suggest?I do think in certain situations it may get dangerous. As a beginer, you may indeed try hotels first. A good choice might be the "Tourist Hotel". There is a security guy but I think no extra charge is due. I never took a "sex for money girl" with me, but some civilians did come. I did, however, book always double room for two persons (which is almost same price as single room).
PhotoSlider
07-19-19, 22:16
Hi gents,
I was away from the forum for a while as I have been on my internship in Beijing. Will be back in Kiev in August.
Just checked the exchange rate and found that the usd-grv rate was 25-ish. What the hell is going on? At the beginning this year it was 28 or something as far as I remember. Is Ukraine experiencing a boom in economy? How are you going to deal with situation? Do you think it is the right time to buy a large amount of grivnas to save future costs?
Anthony.Take a look at 5 years USD to UAH exchange rate. Since the war started it went up, and for the last 2-3 years there is a seasonal fluctuation. Raising when heating season starts, and going down during summer.
Difficult to predict what will happen. I keep my Ukrainian funds (left in Kiev upon each departure) diversified. Half in UAH, half in EUR or USD.
Alright. Comedy or tragedy. I report, you decide.
Woke up, took care of some blah blah blah, and after all that I sat to "rest my eyes" around 2:45 pm or so. As I opened my eyes and looked at the time I saw it was 8:30 pm and I was feeling totally refreshed! #facepalm.
First things first, dinner is apparently the new breakfast, which I shared with a forum member, and we hung out for a few hours. (you know who you are, that was a good time man.) I could have called it an evening, and I would have been ahead. But that's not how people like us work. I was still wide awake, and my better half got the better of me. "lets get out there and get our hands dirty" said the devil on my shoulder, and that's what I did. I texted the cabby I met the night before, he came to pick me up, and we went over some strategy.
We decided that for tonight, just hit the "easy button" and go to an apartment. Also, we picked a nearby one and went mid-grade all the way. The idea being that this is just price of education, we are gauging levels to find the best game plan for the future. I am here for 2 moths after all, no sense in ruining a good business relationship over petty greed. He explained that the apartments charge me and they give him a commission. I don't pay him anything for the transport, just an optional tip at the end of the night (which I gave him 300 hyr). The price would be 2100 hyr / HR which the girl takes from me. There are places with girls that start much higher, but we'd only cross that bridge if we needed to. He would be waiting for me outside. He also explained that mid week is bullshit and also that girls start early in the evening. By mid-evening they have the burden of exhaustion. Takeout is also on offer at these places, so often times, the best ones get plundered by mid-evening. Therefore, the best way to get the best girls is if you start earlier in the night, and on a weekend. After you've been at this for a while, you'll find one you REALLY like and then arrange for takeouts from that point on. This also gives you time to pop a viagra if you must. Unless you're the kind of guy who does that sort of thing blindly before the evening starts (not knowing if he's going to "get it in" or not) and then after 'exercising the better part of valor' in the face of several gynosaurus rex (aka, just running away), then finding yourself meandering the late night diners hungry as a horse (for being up so late) with a raging hard-on even the kitchen crew can spot through your faded 90's jeans. (when that happens to me I just wink at the waitress and tell her the bus boy brings the best out of me. HAHA) <-- I can make that joke because I bussed tables in college.
The place we went to is real close by, just down the street from men's club. Its unmarked, so you have to know where it is, and they have to buzz you in. In this regard, I'm assuming it helped that they knew my cabby. We went in, I was seated, and 4 beauties were lined up. 2 of 4 were knockout gorgeous, but 1 was a dimepiece, legit (that's the one I picked of course). The remaining one could punch her own ticket in the usa but here, next to those other 3, she didn't stand a chance. I looked over at my cabby and said "I thought you said these girls are merely average, are we in the right place?" he looked over, smirked and said "pssht, average".
The one I picked is named sabina. She is a spinner par excellence. That's what I like, a runner or a ballerina's body. Short, petite, firm, athletic, size 0, not an ounce of fat on her, young, and natural be-cup boobs. Where the body is a total 9, her face is only about a 6. 5, but she had a jessica jones thing going for her that really turned me on. Long black hair, crop cut bangs (slavic style), not that I really give a shit about the hair as long as they have some (don't be bald if you're a girl).
She may have had a few clients before me and she might have been burned-out, who knows. Lots and lots of little "no's" and rules, but she can be warmed up. I took that as a personal challenge because as of right now, every experience chips away at the learning curve of a new city. Besides, god knows I wasn't going to come in her pussy, that cootch was blown out like chernobyl! Seriously, it was like flinging a hot dog down a hallway, NO tread left on those tires hehehe. I got soft while I was still inside her, and we were only 20 minutes in!! I pulled out, and *ahem, took care of matters personally. After that I just found a way to maintain a conversation with her, just to see how much of the remaining time i could redeem (that, and I didn't want to wait on the street for my cabby if he was in the middle of something else). By the end, she melted in my hands and didn't want to let me go. Victory was mine, all through google translate because she doesn't speak a lick of english, not too shabby! And now that my boner was killed, it's safe for the good people at that late night diner.
For those who need to know, the punch sequence was pretty standard. Rubbing, CBJ, missionary, failure, more rubbing, more CBJ, more crippling OCD, finished with amusing myself (all in 20 minutes). As for a repeat, for me its a no. But if you like swimming and you need your exercise, her name is sabina.
Member #4623
07-20-19, 01:07
I do think in certain situations it may get dangerous. As a beginer, you may indeed try hotels first. A good choice might be the "Tourist Hotel". There is a security guy but I think no extra charge is due. I never took a "sex for money girl" with me, but some civilians did come. I did, however, book always double room for two persons (which is almost same price as single room).Thanks. I will check. It and I. Will book for two.
That security as a reception is always an advantage. They don't care about what you do as long as you do not disturb the others. But they are there if something happens.
Any other suggestions are appreciate.
When you guys order girls from relaxkiev you don't think its safe seeing them in your flats? I have never tried relaxkiev.
Lucky Nuts
07-20-19, 04:36
Awesome story telling ShawMan! Thanks for sharing and please keep it coming. I'd think you want to return there to test drive the other hotties.
Member #4623
07-21-19, 11:56
Hi everyone,
I have another question for my preparations.
What is the best position in Kiev. I mean, which are the main streets where you can take a walk in the evening, find club's and restaurant's and in general night life at walking distance?
Is it safe the center walking alone?
PhotoSlider
07-21-19, 22:53
Hi everyone,
I have another question for my preparations.
What is the best position in Kiev. I mean, which are the main streets where you can take a walk in the evening, find club's and restaurant's and in general night life at walking distance?
Is it safe the center walking alone?Just like any large city in Europe. Think of Kiev as Paris or Berlin. Perhaps Kiev is safer than parts of Paris and Barcelona these days.
I never had any problems in Kiev. IMHO downtown is very safe as long as you don't ask for trouble.
There is pick pocketing in tight crowds and on public transportation. In the past corrupt police harassed drunk idiots. Nothing out of the ordinary.
I try to avoid Maidan, Arena City, any seedy places like Dolls strip club. During soccer games stay away from the Olympic Stadium, sport bars and pubs with fans, etc.
There are occasional shootings mostly from traumatic weapons and very rare targeted assassinations with explosions due to unavoidable influx from the war and "friendly" northern neighbor perpetrating its understanding of the world order, but the ultimate effect is nowhere near 4th of July Independence Day in Chicago two weeks ago when 36 people were shot, 5 of them fatally. In Kiev the most frequent reason is the road rage due to bad traffic. Mongers do not drive, taxi drivers mostly behave.
More poor neighborhoods far away from downtown, like Troeschina, have more drugs and other crime problems.
Stay downtown, do not look concerned, do not flash cash or expensive valuables, and you'll be just fine. 5-10 blocks around K is more than enough for most visitors.
Member #4623
07-22-19, 16:40
Just like any large city in Europe. Think of Kiev as Paris or Berlin. Perhaps Kiev is safer than parts of Paris and Barcelona these days.
I never had any problems in Kiev. IMHO downtown is very safe as long as you don't ask for trouble.
There is pick pocketing in tight crowds and on public transportation. In the past corrupt police harassed drunk idiots. Nothing out of the ordinary.
I try to avoid Maidan, Arena City, any seedy places like Dolls strip club. During soccer games stay away from the Olympic Stadium, sport bars and pubs with fans, etc.
There are occasional shootings mostly from traumatic weapons and very rare targeted assassinations with explosions due to unavoidable influx from the war and "friendly" northern neighbor perpetrating its understanding of the world order, but the ultimate effect is nowhere near 4th of July Independence Day in Chicago two weeks ago when 36 people were shot, 5 of them fatally. In Kiev the most frequent reason is the road rage due to bad traffic. Mongers do not drive, taxi drivers mostly behave..Thank you. Very useful analysis.
Member #4623
07-22-19, 17:13
I want to thank everyone for the logistical info and share the results found here and on other sources, for the benefit of all those who will visit Kiev the first time and have no contacts or trusted girls.
You must remain in the center, close to the areas indicated in red on the image, preferably zone 2:
Pros:
1) proximity to many clubs and massage centers within walking distance, always useful if the appointments do not end well.
2) areas with lots of safe public places for the first meetings and a walk.
3) restaurants and other attractions for moments of solitude or rest.
4) easy travel arrangements, public transport and taxis.
Cons:
1) hotel prices and apartments a little higher.
2) you should always ask before you book if In the apartments and hotels you can host different girls at no extra cost or gifts, at every hour.
Please let me know your opinions. Do you think it would be useful to make a list of hotels and apartments that are friendly and safe?
Thanks to all and I hope to come back and do a nice review with some interesting and useful information.
Thank you. Very useful analysis.Useful analysis? Looolll.
Kiev is safe. Period. I don't agree that only around Kreshiatik is safe. I never experienced at any time in any Rayon and problems. Not in daytime and not at night.
DramaFree11
07-23-19, 02:17
Useful analysis? Looolll.
Kiev is safe. Period. I don't agree that only around Kreshiatik is safe. I never experienced at any time in any Rayon and problems. Not in daytime and not at night.Kiev you can find a lot of negatives things, but safety is one of the best parts about Kiev. Extremely safe, I remember many times being drug walking home from the clubs, never an issues. Couple times the police gave me a hard time just hold your ground and they will back off completely.
Central Kyiv is very safe, as are the middle class suburbs (Pozniaki, Obolon). There are some rough suburbs however, where solitary forigners can expect to be confronted by robbers armed with knives or worse, whether day or night. Photoslider mentioned Troeschina. There are also some rough areas in Solomyanskyi district towards Vyshneve. Or so I've been warned. No reason to be in these areas unless you are seeking very cheap drug-addict prostitutes (probably infected with HIV).
PhotoSlider
07-23-19, 18:16
Useful analysis? Looolll.
Kiev is safe. Period. I don't agree that only around Kreshiatik is safe. I never experienced at any time in any Rayon and problems. Not in daytime and not at night.It is a game of numbers. Stay in Kiev occasionally few days, weeks and even months each year, and you'll be fine.
Father of my friend has lived in Kiev for decades and was mugged on Maidan square, assaulted for his wallet during the day in the crowd. Hit in the head. Things happen.
There are online crime maps available, showing crime frequency and recent reports.
I wouldn't rent first or second floor apartment. Burglaries in Kiev are frequently performed through the second floor balconies. Some of those are reported in reviews on AirBnB:
"Somebody has broken a balcony lock and committed a theft in the night, while we were inside the apartment and slept. Landlord has contacted her assistant, who promptly changed all the locks in the apartment, secured a balcony door e. T. see. , in the same time we heard from him that it was not a first theft in this apartment, but they experienced one more 1 year ago."
Chances of valuables "lifted" by visiting ladies are low, but not zero, especially with independents.
Generally speaking, Kiev is safe.
"but where's the beef?" (70's babies will know that reference.) that's how my day started. Finding out that the local grocery store here does not bother to sell beef. What kind of shit is this? Oh well, I just got some butter and cheese instead. Oooonly to find out when I got home that they actually mix chocolate into the butter here!! Chocolate butter and monkeys on your head at 10 in the morning (yes that happened, please don't ask), gents. This is rivendell. *sighhhhh.
Last couple of days I've been waking up with a nail in my pants so I decided it was time I got back to work. Between plenty of rest, starting the excursion a little earlier in the night, having a cholesterol rich diet, testosterone, progesterone, and a solid plan, I felt confident to use some of the slidenifil. Tonight was going to happen and I came loaded for bear!
The solid plan.
I suggested to cabby that maybe we could look for massage parlors instead. The operating theory was that a good ol' fashioned hand party was guaranteed to do the job, and worst case, we can always find another one if the first one we try isn't up to snuff. His idea instead was to try the apartments, and only if they don't deliver, go to the massage parlors as a last resort. Smart man. (plus he gets that commission.).
But after witnessing a dirth of available providers, and lots and lots and lots of dudes going in and out of the building, I felt less encouraged about that particular apartment. (it was the same one he took me to last time.) he suggested we go to the higher-end options not to stay, but to take the opportunity to take some notes maybe get some insight into what those options are. He's a smart man, so we did just that. And we walked out just as disappointed. The girl (yes, there was only one) had grey teeth, a drippy nose, a droopy back, and a saddlebag ass. Maybe she is considered higher-end because she is newer? Even cabby said that was a good call. Don't ask me what her name is, I already forgot, you would too, so it's a moot point.
So we went to a second apartment! It is located around the corner in a different district of the city. Not terribly far but you'll need a cab. Its close to an enormous church or something (has a HUGE brick courtyard). I did note that its close to a place that does sugar wax. *Ahem, that will come in handy after a few weeks. Thank you very much.
Again, unmarked building. No way of knowing what it is from the outside. We went in and were greeted by friendly staff, warm smiles. And again, lots of dudes. Yall, Sunday is just not a good night around here. One drawback to this place is that it is so small. The rooms are immediately adjacent to the main room where everybody lounges. When you step out, you are on the walk of shame. Fast forward past the goofy introductions and the hanging out for a bit yada yada yada. I picked alissya.
Alissya.
Another buttaface, but that's ok. She's small, not sexy like the last one but a very sweet girl with a cute little body. She speaks some english, which made a huge difference.
Another brunette, but she tried to lighten it with cheap store-bought stuff, so now its that off-eggplant purpleish color we last saw in the mid-90's. Everything natural on her, 22 years old.
After the 2100 UKH to get the party started, she turned off the lights. With my hands outstretched I yelled, "marco. Marco! She replied "polo!" and ran over to me, put my hands on her tits, and the rest is history. Or rather, she came over, and then did. Not. Stop coming for the rest of the hour hehe. She might suck the meanest dick this side of the dnieper, I didn't find out, we never got that far. Once our clothes came off, we started rubbing eachother, making out (which took her some time to get warmed up to but she gave in, it was SO cute, SO sweet). And she already started coming! LOL this is before I ever got it in. So I can't really say if her pussy is loose (def not like the last one), because she already came, a LOT. She has a standard hooker's pussy, not extremely loose but not tight at all. After a LOT of fucking I was finally able to come by grabbing her ass and squeezing it together while I was on top thrusting.
If you want to know what all that ended up looking like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUbmmI5utBc that was pretty much my pecker in her hole, except that I was on top, and all the cute squeaking noises were coming from her.
Useful analysis? Looolll.
Kiev is safe. Period. I don't agree that only around Kreshiatik is safe. I never experienced at any time in any Rayon and problems. Not in daytime and not at night.Kyiv is not safe. Safety? That's an illusion. People are friendly because it's about making money.
You do not understand the language. This is the mistake. Otherwise, you would understand what is often spoken about.
Are there raids on tourists? Yes. Every day.
Not just pickpocketing. Raids.
these are some odds and ends i wanted to touch upon about my previous post So one of the things I forgot to mention was that I wasn't too keen on returning to the first apartment (sabina) because part of the reason I may not have gotten much out of it is that the place itself was uncomfortably warm a bit smelly. So that's why cabby suggested we at least get names for future takeout. He said my apartment would be guaranteed to be more comfortable, and it would also be better in the way that we don't have to take a chance on whether the girl was there or not, just order by name when I want (maybe test on the spot to see if she's a keeper). A much better way to go about things for the next two months, and I don't have to pay him for the evening. He had a point. (he made a suggestion against his own commission, that's a good cabby right there.).
Another interesting thing I noticed. I tried to pass alissya my contact info, to which she had pen and paper in the kitchen (you know, where mamasan is). I asked if that would be ok, she said that it would be totally fine (well I wrote her my name and number, and I haven't heard from her since. (sarcasm) gee I wonder why. They probably threw it away the moment I wasn't looking. But I don't know if I'd be welcome back, or if it would just be weird. (especially if alissya happens to be working there when I show up.) something to think about.
But it brings me back to the idea of trying out the other offerings on sample. There are massage parlors (I REALLY want to do nuru. I've never done it and I want my first time to be with one of these exceptionally beautiful women). I've heard of actual porn stars that also escort out of Kiev (one of them I have a real boner for). I know strip clubs are death traps but the idea of her initiating contact with you first is something new, I got to get around to it but I have cold feet based on a really viscious experience I survived in russia (I consider it an attempt on life). Of course I am going to get to ordering in / takeout as well, just haven't sampled that option yet.
Here's some I found, let me know if you have intel on any of it.
https://vipmassage.kiev.ua/en/services
https://moulin-rouge.kiev.ua/en/vip-massage-program
http://salondream.kiev.ua/massage-prices-2/
https://erotic-massage-kiev.com/en/
http://en.erotic-massage.org/
That's what I have for the massage parlors. As far as the porn star, its really expensive, and I've seen some of the scenes she's been in (ugh, YUK!) but I got to pretend none of that happened, the only sex she's ever had are the scenes that I keep replaying, and THAT'S IT DAMMIT! It would be the only way I ever got to experience her, because she happens to be here and so am I. LOL.
Thoughts? Opinions? Ideas? THANKS!
but I have to admit they prefer no turks... pm me for contacts.Heh. The girl I knew. Call her zhenechka, see my first post for photos. Did visit Turkey for 4 weeks in Nov 2018. I am not sure if she was working there, but she did say to me she knows the language as she studied it at University. She did spill that she likes Turkish music.
In terms of clients, she did visit 3 customers in Turkey (1 day, 2 days, 1 day), so she must be an exception to the rule, heh.
PhotoSlider
07-24-19, 17:45
Are there raids on tourists? Yes. Every day.
Not just pickpocketing. Raids.Somehow I missed those. Lucky me for sure.
For the sake of visiting Forum members safety, could you please provide few examples?
What parts of the city, what time of the day, what do raiders target? Some of us inevitably better understand certain matters than others and vice versa.
It seems for organized prostitution it is more beneficial to keep milking the customers without any unnecessary petty crime. Streets of Kiev, that's a completely different matter.
Would be great if you could provide helpful specifics. Thank you in advance.
PhotoSlider
07-24-19, 18:35
...A much better way to go about things for the next two months, and I don't have to pay him for the evening. He had a point. (he made a suggestion against his own commission, that's a good cabby right there.).This cabby wants your business, because you are honest and treat him nicely. Kiev taxi market is quite competitive. So he made the smart move to keep you.
Another interesting thing I noticed. I tried to pass alissya my contact info, to which she had pen and paper in the kitchen (you know, where mamasan is). I asked if that would be ok, she said that it would be totally fine (well I wrote her my name and number, and I haven't heard from her since. (sarcasm) gee I wonder why. They probably threw it away the moment I wasn't looking. But I don't know if I'd be welcome back, or if it would just be weird. (especially if alissya happens to be working there when I show up.) something to think about.It is easier for a girl to take your number and forget about it, rather than give you hers, or even explain she doesn't want to. Do not overthink it. Agency most likely will not contact you, as they are busy. Indies sometimes do send a short message "How are you? When the well gets dry.
To keep it straightforward, I give my smartphone device into the girl's hands and ask to dial her number, promising I will not bother her, and explaining that I would rather pay her directly instead of splitting the earnings with the agency. This way I get her number, and she has mine. I do it only with the girls I like. 50-70% of the girls refuse for the fear of their phone checked and being penalized. They suggest to call the agency directly, requesting her by name.
If she dials, I ask or check what messengers she actively uses, and after she leaves, immediately send her a message setting up our next meet. Then she either doesn't answer at all (25-30% says she is busy (another 30-40% or we arrange for continuation. Keeping the first meeting is important for converting the girl into a regular. If the first meeting falls through because I am double booked, she will consider me unreliable and will stop answering, or even block and erase the contact without me knowing anything.
Think of it as a business transaction, and setting up a regular supplier, provider, where you are the paying customer. Her liking you only means that she is comfortable making money with you, as there are other customers, sometimes abusive and dishonest. One of my Ukrainian GFs explained it plain and simple: "I am not scared with you."
"but where's the beef?" (70's babies will know that reference.) that's how m....
If you want to know what all that ended up looking like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUbmmI5utBc that was pretty much my pecker in her hole, except that I was on top, and all the cute squeaking noises were coming from her.Oh man, dude, are you still there? Sorry to learn about your bad experience. Maybe I will have the opportunity to stop again in Kiev in August on the way to Dnipro.
Another interesting thing I noticed. I tried to pass alissya my contact info, to which she had pen and paper in the kitchen (you know, where mamasan is). I asked if that would be ok, she said that it would be totally fine (well I wrote her my name and number, and I haven't heard from her since. (sarcasm) gee I wonder why. They probably threw it away the moment I wasn't looking. But I don't know if I'd be welcome back, or if it would just be weird. (especially if alissya happens to be working there when I show up.) something to think about.Why not call the place and make an appointment for outcall and see her in your flat? They don't do outcalls?
Kyiv is not safe. Safety? That's an illusion. People are friendly because it's about making money.
You do not understand the language. This is the mistake. Otherwise, you would understand what is often spoken about.
Are there raids on tourists? Yes. Every day.
Not just pickpocketing. Raids.I travel to Kiev every summer, I heard about 10 yrs ago, some guys pretended to be police offices raided a tourist, maybe that's why some of you are scared of ordering girls from relaxkiev to your flat, don't know if there have been other raids, I've never had any problems.
Day 5Thanks for your reports, after reading them I would rather stay in my flat, write the agent what I want and order girls for outcall, I know photos are fake and probably won't keep the girl.
I love those comments. Not! I have been to Kiev in the last year about 6 months in total. I live here almost. I have some girls I hang out with and made some friends. I walk in the Night drunken from BoraBora Beach towards Hydropark to get a taxi, I visit concerts at Art Platforma (left bank) which is a shity district, I drive out to Dymer to hang out at the Dinpr, I walk in the Night in dark alleys, etc etc. I never had any problems in the past 8 years. Of course you will always find trouble in a big city but I feel here much more safer then in some US cities or Berlin for example. I was in Kaszakhstan and Kyrgistan 2 months ago and the internet is full of warnings. In my one month trip I had no bad experience and asked so many people why it is said it is not safe. Just rumors and some tourists who wants to be important, saying they made a trip to a dangerous country.
Somehow I missed those. Lucky me for sure.
For the sake of visiting Forum members safety, could you please provide few examples?
What parts of the city, what time of the day, what do raiders target? Some of us inevitably better understand certain matters than others and vice versa.
It seems for organized prostitution it is more beneficial to keep milking the customers without any unnecessary petty crime. Streets of Kiev, that's a completely different matter.
Would be great if you could provide helpful specifics. Thank you in advance.
Just returned from 3 days in Kiev, the girls were plenty and as expected, aged 20 to 30, but I have to admit they prefer no turks, no indians, no israelis, pm me for contacts.Do they charge the same rates as your Warsaw contacts at US $ 200/250 an hour?
DramaFree11
07-28-19, 00:38
Do they charge the same rates as your Warsaw contacts at US $ 200/250 an hour?Ukraine girls are a lot of things, but they are not prejudice. Russian do discriminate.
DramaFree11
07-28-19, 00:40
I love those comments. Not! I have been to Kiev in the last year about 6 months in total. I live here almost. I have some girls I hang out with and made some friends. I walk in the Night drunken from BoraBora Beach towards Hydropark to get a taxi, I visit concerts at Art Platforma (left bank) which is a shity district, I drive out to Dymer to hang out at the Dinpr, I walk in the Night in dark alleys, etc etc. I never had any problems in the past 8 years. Of course you will always find trouble in a big city but I feel here much more safer then in some US cities or Berlin for example. I was in Kaszakhstan and Kyrgistan 2 months ago and the internet is full of warnings. In my one month trip I had no bad experience and asked so many people why it is said it is not safe. Just rumors and some tourists who wants to be important, saying they made a trip to a dangerous country.I have many of the same stories, never had any issues. We would walk home drunk 2-3 nights a week, no issues. I would never try that in the states. I do miss that part of Kiev.
Why not call the place and make an appointment for outcall and see her in your flat? They don't do outcalls?I guess I could, but that would be a bit weird. Kinda comes off as a bit "thirsty", I don't think she'd respect me after that. I'm probably better off giving someone else a shot at the title LOL.
PhotoSlider
07-29-19, 00:25
I guess I could, but that would be a bit weird. Kinda comes off as a bit "thirsty", I don't think she'd respect me after that. I'm probably better off giving someone else a shot at the title LOL.Someone else is surely a much better idea, than expecting respect from an apartment girl.
There are hundreds of girls available in Kiev, and that's the beauty of it. At the very hint of doubts with any of them, switching to other candidates is the best way to heal the restless soul.
Maybe I am mistaken, but I get a feeling you may over-complicate the matters. The approach in Kiev is as simple as "lather, rinse, repeat". Send the message via Viber, have a few girls delivered to your door, choose (or send them back), then pay, and for an hour she is yours. If you like her, try to get her personal number. Mamba, Tinder and other resources aren't that much different.
Agencies dispatchers and apartment mamasans like it straight-forward. Otherwise they loose the interest quickly and ignore.
Rules become more elaborate when your females progress into the role of regular, or GF, or move in with you for a period of time. Dealing with apartments is very transactional.
Greetings,
This is essentially a re-post of a previous post, updated after my most recent trip. A report of the trip will be posted shortly.
Some rookie mistakes.
-First timers might have some trouble adjusting to this new reality, where most of the women look and dress like fashion models, are actually flattered by male attention, and can be had for a reasonable price. When you arrive in Kiev, do not be constrained by behavioral norms or gynocentric societies. Feel free to approach women, to propose to them, to chat with them, to look, to make eye contact, to smile, to act like a man.
-Do not go to see the girl's place. By the time you get there and find the place, you have wasted an hour or two, the taxi driver has ripped you off, and the girl might be disappointing, or you might decide that you have already spent so much time and money that you will agree to anything (Concorde fallacy).
-Do not agree to have sex with a girl who is not even close to the one on the photo.
-Do not agree to too much without talking specifics. One of the fun aspects of dealing with professionals is that you can be open about sex, what she likes, what she will do, and for how much. If you want to gamble, you can try a non-pro.
-do not drink too much, and if you do, do take performance enhancing pharmaceuticals, just in case.
-use an apartment, not a hotel. Cheaper, no hassles, etc. If you are concerned about security but a portable little safe with a cable.
-use public transport when feasible. Negotiate with the taxis. A 100 UAH fare is a third of the way to the airport, not 1 Km.
-avoid the scammers, girls who want to meet you at a restaurant of their choice. You choose a restaurant, one that is public, popular, with a menu, and with a good view of the street.
-Before you let girls in, ANY girls, sanitize your apartment. Everything should be put away. This includes keys, phones, wallets, watches, cash, sunglasses, hell, even expensive ties. I use a little safe for all my valuables. When a girl enters, the only accessible items are condoms, latex gloves, lube, her cash in UAH, and a large camera. By the way, she can only pick up her cash after the deed.
Preparation.
As usual, I had done a lot of preliminary work both scouting some pro sites (top models, GIA and others), and actually making contacts on dating, semi-pro sites (lucky lovers, Elena's models, mamba, Tinder, Badoo). The pro sites carry some of the same pros, and the non-pros are also found in several sites. I was interested in the whole range, from potential marriage material to just really good sex (actually, you cannot have the former without the latter). I was open to meeting full-time pros, semi-pros and hard core amateurs, if there is such a beast.
My general philosophy.
Briefly, in my opinion, an apartment is better to a hotel, and the much talked about Rio is too expensive. If I were willing to pay 300 USD, I would just stay at home. On top of the usual venues (bars, clubs, cafes, and the street), I shall add conventions (there are many, some to your interest, and maybe you can get your employer to pay for your trip), English teaching forums, and when the weather is favourable, beaches and parks.
Money and prices.
Exchange only a small amount at the airport; the rate is not very good. You do not have to know the rate when you land; just check the spread. 10 cents is very good, anything over 20 cents is a rip-off.
If I wanted to pay 200-300 Euros for one hour of sex, I could easily just stay home.
The average salary in Kiev is around 10,000 UAH per month, which yields 2500 UAH per week, or 500 UAH per weekday. ! Cashier girls likely make a lot less. In any case, even at 10 K, two or 3 days' wages would be would be 1000 to 1500 UAH. Sure enough, ads start at about 300 UAH, and local men would never pay more than 500 UAH. Girls would never agree to that much money from a foreigner, just because they know we can pay more. However, double the normal rate seems more than reasonable. My acceptable price range was from 1500 to 2000, with 2500 UAH as an absolute maximum.
I think this is more than fair.
Pros and semi-pros.
I get the impression that nearly all normal girls are potentially "semi-pros" in Kiev. Actually, I like to think of marriage minded girls are "long-term pros". "Semi-pros" to me are girls who have regular jobs and supplement their income with a little sex. I like to think that they do not have too many customers and I am the only persons with whom they have had sex that day, and maybe that week. "Real pros" are the ones who do not have any other job. They can be low class apartment girls or high priced travel girls who like to go to Dubai.
The game with Pros and semi-pros.
After a few minutes of conversation, and if I saw her responding appropriately, smiling and giggling, I suggest going back to my place for some private fun, pause for a second to gauge her reaction, and then add that I could "give her a gift", or "show some appreciation for her", or "help with her expenses", and "make it worth her time with you". They all understand what I mean. If they are really offended and walk away, I just talk to the next girl I see. If they pretend to be offended and keep talking to you, then they are not really offended. I apologize and withdraw the money, but I say that you only have a couple of weeks to get to know her. Eventually, she will decide to take the money. The third option is when they give you a counter offer. Then you know you are talking to a real pro, and you can be open about prices and details.
Negotiate in local currency, never dollars or Euros.
THE ART OF THREESOMES.
Do not agree to a threesome unless you already have had a mind-blowing experience at least one of the girls. Ask her if she has a friend, and tell her to bring her for you to meet or to send you some photos. If you like her, go for it.
Actually, if there is not girl-on-girl action, a good threesome is hard work. Okay, the double BJ is great, but after that most of us have a tendency to focus on one girl at a time.
Also, I practise safe sex, but not for oral, but it can become troublesome during a threesome. Every time you switch you have to switch condoms. Not only does it slow everything down, but you might end up running out of condoms half way through. If you switch to a mouth, you can keep it on, but then your BJ is covered, not quite the same.
WEB SITES.
As I said, Gia (now KEC) is my upper end, and I avoided it this time. However, the photos are real, and the service is good.
Top models is tricky. I imagine the ones asking for 2000 UAH and more use real photos; the rest do not. Most of the photos are fake, even if it says they are real. They do not speak English, even if it says they do. They often disconnect the moment they realize you do not speak Russian. However, after a lot of trial and error, and stern warnings that girls with fake photos will be sent home, it is possible to get some good girls. Just use some common sense. If the photos look like they are from professional models, then they probably are. If there are several girls with the same number, then it probably an agency and they will just send you any girl, not the one you wanted. I tried for girls in the middle (1200-2000 UAH), with a variety of photos in different settings, and not from agencies. I figured the ones with their faces blurred are more likely to be real. I asked to send me photos or warned them that final approval would happen when we meet. I ended up meeting a few cuties that in their photos, looked like real girls.
http://prostitutki-kieva.biz/ and http://sexkiev.net/ and others. Same idea.
Tinder is full of pros too. One weird angle was girls who claim to want to meet someone to "Learn and practice ENGLISH". I suspect it is just a euphemism, but I did not bite.
Badoo was a an okay source of a few numbers, but nothing materialized this time.
Mamba turned out to be my main source of semi-pro, other than previous contacts (many of whom also came form mamba). Lots of pros, semi-pros and girls thinking that they can meet someone special from a far-away land. It is easy to pick the pros. They are the ones that are looking for sex, with anyone 60 or younger. \.
Miscellaneous.
For crying out loud, do not pay so much.
I told all the girls that I would be there for 2 weeks, even up to my last day, and that I would return in 2-3 months. I figured that would encourage them to do their job well, thinking that I might become a repeat customer. I also told everyone I was the on business, which was partially true, so I had more details ready, if they asked. You do not want girls to think you are just a sex tourist.
Maximize your exposure, to pros and semi-pros, and long-term pros. Conferences, shops, restaurants, hair salons, English forums, and the street are perfectly good places to make some contacts. I saw some foreigners acting like desperate sex tourists, hitting one every girl out on the street. I assume that is not the best technique. Just be cool, smile, and if a girl makes eye contact or sits or stands close to you, say whatever comes to mind. Feel free to approach them, as if you were a man in North America back in the 50's. A simple "Hello," makes a perfectly good opening line.
Treat them well and appreciate their beauty.
Money is not a substitute for charm.
Member #4623
07-29-19, 21:18
Greetings,
This is essentially a re-post of a previous post, updated after my most recent trip. A report of the trip will be posted shortly.
Some rookie mistakes.
-First timers might have some trouble adjusting to this new reality, where most of the women look and dress like fashion models, are actually flattered by male attention, and can be had for a reasonable price. When you arrive in Kiev, do not be constrained by behavioral norms or gynocentric societies. Feel free to approach women, to propose to them, to chat with them, to look, to make eye contact, to smile, to act like a man.
-Do not go to see the girl's place. By the time you get there and find the place, you have wasted an hour or two, the taxi driver has ripped you off, and the girl might be disappointing, or you might decide that you have already spent so much time and money that you will agree to anything (Concorde fallacy).
-Do not agree to have sex with a girl who is not even close to the one on the photo..Thank you.
A report of the trip will be posted shortly.
Looking forwards to reading it. Regardless of any disagreements, I always enjoy reading your posts.
-use public transport when feasible. Negotiate with the taxis. A 100 UAH fare is a third of the way to the airport, not 1 Km.
Ukraine is a developed country. Taxis are not interested in bargaining for standard services. (Special services, like introductions to brothels, is another story.) Just use Uklon (what I use), Uber or one of the other taxi apps. Besides, if it's really 1km, why not just walk? About 12 minutes on foot.
By the way, she can only pick up her cash after the deed.
I'm also a big believer in this. Spread the money neatly on the table so she can count by eye. Point to the table and say: "You can put your purse and clothes there, but please don't pick up the money until afterwards. It's very low class to expect payment in advance, like at McDonald's." If you want, replace the word "money" by the word "gift". By having the money/gift next to her purse, she is reassured that you actually have money and plan to pay. On the other hand, since she hasn't yet picked the money up, you could take it back if she refuses to carry though with the agreed upon sex acts. It is my belief that money lying openly on the table acts as a powerful aphrodisiac to young women, similar to how tip money lying on the table at a restaurant acts as a powerful incentive to get good service there. Ignore what women say about not wanting to be treated like prostitutes: this is just a psychological defense mechanism. Truth is they consider it an honor to be paid for sex versus giving it away for free.
Note that I had to fight with agency mamasan to get them to agree to leaving money on the table until afterwards. Probably not as important with agencies and pros as with semi-pros, especially beginner semi-pros, who are more likely to get nervous about carrying through with the sex.
The average salary in Kiev is around 10,000 UAH per month, which yields 2500 UAH per week, or 500 UAH per weekday. ! Cashier girls likely make a lot less. In any case, even at 10 K, two or 3 days' wages would be would be 1000 to 1500 UAH. Sure enough, ads start at about 300 UAH, and local men would never pay more than 500 UAH. Girls would never agree to that much money from a foreigner, just because they know we can pay more. However, double the normal rate seems more than reasonable. My acceptable price range was from 1500 to 2000, with 2500 UAH as an absolute maximum.
And cashier salaries in the mid size town which is my official domicile in the USA is under $8/hour, less taxes, plus they often get less than 40 hours work, so maybe $250/week or $50/day. But college girls would be insulted by offers of $50 from a man 30+ years older. More like $150 minimum. Maybe a younger man could get away with $50, especially if a long-term continuing relationship. Sex work everywhere is highly paid, assuming you want quality young women and you are seeing the girl occasionally at most and possibly just once. 3-4 days cashier wages, or about 1500-2000 uah in Kyiv is about right.
That is also what locals pay. Your 300 uah rate is absurd, unless you are talking about brothels with very low quality women. Equivalent of a $30 truck stop prostitute in the USA. Please show me reports from https://www.kiev-x.in where the woman is high quality, young, outcall and under 1000 uah.
As I pointed out previously, locals may not be preferred clients. First, locals might know the girl, which would be very embarrassing for young semi-pros. Second, with someone like Stevie69, there is the possibility of marriage to a relatively rich, attractive and charming westerner, whereas local clients probably either already married or else neither rich nor attractive nor charming. Third, even if foreigners are from Muslim countries or India, so that girls rule out marriage because of low status of women in those countries, this didn't mean they will also reject clients from those countries. Fact that man travelled all the way to Ukraine and is paying for sex is strong compliment to Ukrainian women, and so natural to want to repay the compliment and bring honor to Ukrainian women by leaving a good impression on the man. Assuming he acts like a gentleman, of course, versus some village goatherd who saved for 6 months to afford his trip to Kyiv and doesn't bathe and then acts like he never before had sex with a human female. In other words, it would not surprise me if foreigners, especially those like Stevie69, get better service and rates than locals.
I fly in tomorrow, wish me luck boys, Do you feel your trip is likely to be a success?
So I threw a hand party! AKA I felt like a kid again! LOL.
Ok not really, I was actually looking into quality methods to craft my own prison Fi-Fi for when I get back to the usa. (honestly, whatever the scene is here, its a damn sight better than back home).
I have to pace myself for at least the first stretch of my time here or risk getting "pulled from the game", so I took it easy for a few days. So by now, I had a nail in my pants that just won't go away.
I didn't feel like going for a swim at the apartments (already tired), and I was going to be damned if I burned a slidenifil if it the apartments turned out to be bunk. I wanted a more relaxing experience, something different. And I wanted to do something guaranteed about this nail. So I decided this would be a good day to check out some of those massage parlor websites I posted about earlier.
Cabby had some advice. He mentioned to try the apartments first. We did, and they were bunk. Back to the backup plan hehe. He said to take the menu with a grain of salt. The nuru and the 4 hands and the hot tub and all that was most likely going to fall through the minute you get there. Those are mostly sales gimmicks. But we went to a higher-end place called vip relax, so at least the quality and level of service was guaranteed. And the minute I walked in, I knew everything was going to be alright.
The hostess is in a nightie looking every bit as sexy as the girls who work there (she is off the menu, I tried). Speaking of which, the girls who do this are entirely on another level compared to the apartment incalls. These girls are STUPID SEXY! I stayed with Maya, a perfect 10 stunner that's going to have me making that Fi-Fi before the trip is over (I mean everytime I think about her, another nail finds it way in my pants).
An immediate benefit to this option is that you have more time with her for much less than you'd pay at the apartments for quality like this (1900 UAH for 1 HR 20 min). Once we both got completely naked it started with an up close and personal body to body dickrubbing, the middle was punctuated by an actual massage, finished with another exquisite tugjob, and we showered together after. She was working the entire time, I got my money's worth out of her.
Oddly enough on the way out I saw a room with a hot tub in it. I asked about it and she said it was only on some of the time, very arbitrary when they want to do that.
Of course I tried for the connection, so I gave her my number, she hasn't called, so I'm out. One chance per girl, for life. That's the way it is. But just because I struck out that doesn't mean you will, so get over there and see for yourself what I mean.
Day 13, got another nail in my pants. Lets grow from the apartments, this is going to take more than a hand-party, titty bars are out of the question, so I finally got around to an outcall! The girl's name is nastya and the review is coming later.
Do you feel your trip is likely to be a success?I'm not in ameriKa for the rest of the summer. Whether I find the love of my life, or whether I only manage to write two more lines of my screenplay, it's already a success.
Greetings,
This is essentially a re-post of a previous post, updated after my most recent trip. A report of the trip will be posted shortly.
Some rookie mistakes.
...
Money is not a substitute for charm.Dude, your report is very well written and I fully agree with it. It reflects my own experience in the Ukraine!
PhotoSlider
07-31-19, 10:45
This is essentially a re-post of a previous post, updated after my most recent trip. A report of the trip will be posted shortly.
-Do not go to see the girl's place. By the time you get there and find the place, you have wasted an hour or two, the taxi driver has ripped you off, and the girl might be disappointing, or you might decide that you have already spent so much time and money that you will agree to anything (Concorde fallacy)....Sharing pure wisdom! This should be a report of distinction, we didn't have one for almost a year.
Lots of these thoughts resonate, and while I do some of the things differently, there are absolutely no controversies in the above approach. The criteria is simple. Practice in the field and consistently high degree of success.
Thanks for the vote of confidence.
I did not say 300 UAH would be any good. Any 300 UAH girl would have to pay ME a lot of money before I agreed to have anything to do with her. I would say that NO amount of money would be enough, but maybe we all have a price.
Nor did I say that successful local men pay only 300 UAH. There are plenty of bankers, IT professionals, engineers, and businessmen that probably have all the girls they want. Yes, and they can be fat and ugly and they can treat women like crap, but there you go. Local women always complain that local men cheat, but they do not cheat with 300 UAH girls. They probably do not pay, at least not directly. Successful local men in Ukraine are prime marriage material.
But local men, the ones who have to pay for sex, pay under 500 UAH.
For us, foreign sex tourists, a reasonable price would be 1500 to 2500 UAH.
And yes, in the USA, for example, 150 to 250 USD is a reasonable price. Three days' wages, 10 x the price of a haircut, or the price of 3 dates.
The difference is that in the USA, women can get jobs to cover their basic expenses. So, the supply is smaller, which keeps prices up, but the fact that they give it up "for free" so easily has the opposite effect. I write "for free" in quotes because it is seldom really free.
Looking forwards to reading it. Regardless of any disagreements, I always enjoy reading your posts.
And cashier salaries in the mid size town which is my official domicile in the USA is under $8/hour, less taxes, plus they often get less than 40 hours work, so maybe $250/week or $50/day. But college girls would be insulted by offers of $50 from a man 30+ years older. More like $150 minimum. Maybe a younger man could get away with $50, especially if a long-term continuing relationship. Sex work everywhere is highly paid, assuming you want quality young women and you are seeing the girl occasionally at most and possibly just once. 3-4 days cashier wages, or about 1500-2000 uah in Kyiv is about right.
Hello,
I have a quick report of Kiev. But first, I will deal with a few recent issues on this thread.
First, the naysayers. I do not understand. Maybe they are trying to keep you from visiting so you do not overpay and ruin the market. The best way to keep the prices down and the quality is to prevent newbies from coming and throwing around money like assholes. So, yes, it is really horrible in Ukraine!! Please stay home!
Second, there was a recent report of high numbers of girls over an entire month, with reasonable prices. If you know what you are doing, that will be your experience. I pay 1500 to 2000 UAH, and on rare occasions I can be persuaded to pay up to 2500 UAH. There is no reason to pay 3 K or 4 K or 5 K. There is no reason to pay in USD, or worse in USDs by the hundreds. The prices you see on Kiev Escort Club (KEC-maybe the old GIA), which is an elite agency, range from 4 K to 6 K, but they include 50% for the house. So, even your best fantasy girl costs only 3000 UAH.
Third, about the newbie going for one day, I think in September. It is unlikely that he will find anything good for a reasonable price. Whatever you do, do not tell the girls that you are leaving the next day. Tell them you are there for a month, and if she does not get a good vibe immediately, move on to the next girl. Just read the forum and get some insight, but if you are staying for one day, you will likely have to pay top dollar. Actually, top Grivna. Do not let them discuss prices in foreign currencies.
Fourth, about Caribbean Club. The only problems are (1) the overpriced and watered down drinks, and (2 Turkish sex tourists. They should change the name to Club Bosphorus (get it? It is in Turkey and it is body of water! Actually, I do not know their actual nationalities, as I did not check their passports, but that is how it looks to me. Anyway, they keep the prices high. However, the girls are fantastic; it is a great visual feast. They are overpriced, of course. I pointedly go with no intent to take out, but only to enjoy the view. You can chat with some girls, practice your negotiation skills, and learn to walk away. You can take a few numbers and call them during weekdays. When they go to the Caribbean, the competition forces them to invest a lot (cover charge, fancy dress, shoes, nails, hair, etc.), so they will charge you 50-100% more than on weekdays during the day.
Anyway, on to the report.
I was there for 3 weeks in June and July. I was there for 4 nights, then I had to go to a conference elsewhere in Europe for 5 days, and then I returned for another 2 weeks. I had a list of long-term pros (from marriage sites) and semi-pros (from previous trips). I had communicated with most of them and had various degree of commitment to meet and either have a coffee, or have a little more than just a coffee, respectively.
One of the first questions girls ask is how long I would be staying. I cannot figure why they ask that. They should all be willing to meet me as soon as possible, and if they like me, for as many times as possible afterwards. I give vague answers or just say a couple of weeks, even if it is my last day there and I am already packing or at the airport about to board my plane.
I told the girls that I met on the first round that I was going to Odessa for 5 days. I figure that built a little more pressure. During the second part of the trip, I spent a couple of nights in Dnipro, and one night in Zhytomyr.
Anyway, starting at the airport, I avoided the taxi sharks. I do not know what they charge, but I heard one guy shout 30 dollars (780 UAH! For comparison, Uber taxi costs 320 UAH. I had a girl look it up on my way back. Of course, the price might vary. This was from the centre to the airport, on a Monday, in the early afternoon. It is not the money; I truly hate being ripped off and thought of as a fool.
I headed straight for the money exchange. I only exchanged 20 USD. Bring USD, even if you use EUR. USDs are used more than EUROS, so the exchange spread is slightly tighter and there are more bills of different denominations circulating (more important when you want to exchange your left over UAH back into USD). Make sure this money is in your wallet. You do not want to go digging into your luggage for cash in the middle of the airport. I got a SIM card for 315 UAH form the pretty girl, tested it, and went to the airport shuttle area. While I waited, for only 15 minutes, I started contacting some girls and the apartment people. Make sure you come off the airplane with your phone fully charged!
I took it only to Kharkiv station (60 UAH), not because I am cheap, at least not only because I am cheap, but also because that metro took me directly 150 m from my apartment. Going to the train station (100 UAH) would have technically closer but taken as long in traffic, and still would have required a taxi or another metro ride with a transfer.
During my 150- m walk to the apartment, I stopped at an exchange place know and exchanged another $500 USD. I know a place with a good rate. Do not look at the exchange rate but rather at the buy-sell spread. Fifteen cents is good, ten is better. At the airport, the spread was over 70 cents. Make sure this money is in your wallet. You do not want to go digging into your luggage in the middle of the street looking for your USDs. The $500 was enough to pay for the first few days of the apartment and the at least one night in the city. By the way, I got the apartment using Dobovo.
Anyway, I settled in the apartment without any problems, paid the money, and had to make a decision: search for options from the comfort of my apartment, or head out to the streets and enjoy the view.
I will go off on a tangent and point out the real reason to visit Kiev. Mere seconds after stepping out of your building into the streets, you see a gorgeous woman wearing a nice, feminine, short, often tight, or even transparent dress or skirt, and usually high heels. That continues every 30 seconds for the rest of the day. In contrast to North America, the women in Kiev are slim, they wear dresses and skirts, and many are extremely elegant. Even if I were 90 years old, impotent, and with no chance of ever scoring with any girl, I would still enjoy the view and consider Kiev one of my premier vacation spots. Same goes for St Petersburg, Odessa, Moscow, or any large Eastern European city where the downtown has good foot traffic.
On to the girls.
I had over 25 long-term pros and 8 semi-pros lined up. I had been texting and walking on video with the long-term pros for a couple of months. I had occasionally contacted the semi-pros form previous trips and informed them that I would be back in town.
I arrived on a Friday afternoon / evening and had a date with a semi-pro on my first night, at 22:00 h. She wanted to come with a friend, like last time, but I insisted that I might be tired and only wanted her.
Before her, however, I had three regular first dates. One flaked out; the next one wanted to go to some fancy restaurant, so I ditched her, and the third one was great. I made it quite clear, however, that I was tired and wanted to go to bed early. I doubt I would have scored on a first date, so one hour was plenty of time. When there is no attraction, 5 minutes is plenty of time. We agreed to meet on a couple of days and I went to my other "date". Total cost for my date, less than 300 UAH. Cost for my girl afterwards: 1500 UAH. She offered anal for 500 UAH more, like last time, but I figure I would save it for the next time. I saw her 4 more times during my trip, once alone, and thrice with some of her friends.
She is about 35 and I have known her for about 6 years. She still looks great, almost as good as when we met, but I am sure everything was firmer when she was 22. Over the years, she has introduced me to 5 other girls, who themselves have introduced me to some of their friends. This time, the friends were another 30 something, a new introduction, very cute and enthusiastic, and a 22 year old, whom I have known for 3 years, still absolutely perfect, but she takes a little longer to warm up. Apparently, this young girl is a friend's daughter, and her "aunt" is secretly teaching her the ways of a Kiev woman. Both threesomes were excellent in all accounts! The cost? 1500 UAH per person, 2000 UAH when anal was included.
The first 4 days in Kiev were a tight scheduling puzzle. Fourteen first dates, and 8 second dates with long-term pros. Luckily, I had Saturday and Sunday to sift through most of these.
On Monday and Tuesday, I packed as much action as I could late in the afternoon or early evening, and tried to schedule some semi-pros or real pros early in the afternoon or late in the evening. Actually, it is great going on a date knowing that you just had sex a couple of hours before, and / or that you will likely be having sex a couple of hours later. It makes you fairly relaxed and completely eliminates any hint of desperation, which girls interpret as confidence.
One of the girls was being difficult and said that she could not meet me immediately after work because she had to go to her English class. Never mind that she would learn a lot more English with me in 10 minutes than in one hour with her Ukrainian English teacher. I turned the tables on her and offered to give her class a free conversational English lesson. By the way, I am experienced public speaker and I do have a TEFL diploma, even if it is from over 20 years ago. I have actually done that a few times in Kiev, during vacations; they usually throw a few hundred UAH your way, and more importantly, it is great way to meet girls! Anyway, her class was packed with gorgeous women (and a few guys, yes). These are the women who you want to meet, the smart ones who are trying to improve themselves. They had all just come from work, so they were in their sexy office outfits and high heels. Jesus fucking Christ! I do not know how Ukrainian men do any work at the office! I basically flirted with them for 90 minutes. At the end, the original girl was impressed by my performance, but some other hotter girl had been giving me the eye, so I invited her for a drink instead.
That is another good strategy: expose yourself (not in that sense!) by giving English classes or giving a talk at a local university. You can access the smart hot office girls and the smart hot student girls. They can all see your personality and your status, and surely some of them will be attracted.
Wednesday I had to take off. I returned Sunday night.
Leaving town for a while.
I used the 5 night absence to my advantage. I told some girls that I was going to Odessa and others just assumed that I remained in Kiev. I kept the apartment because I wanted to travel light and I knew that I would return to Kiev late at night. I put my Ukraine sim card in an old phone and I left it there, in case anyone called. So, as far as anyone knew, I was still in Kiev, or at least Ukraine, but I was too busy to answer my phone. I also kept receiving messages on Viber and Whatsapp on my regular phone number using my regular phone. Most girls only communicate via viber and whatsapp, not a regular phone. This allowed me to adroitly postpone some dates for several days and arrange news ones for when I returned.
For girls, scarcity makes you more attractive. If you do not answer the phone, they think that you are with someone else, and hence more attractive. It is technically known as "mate choice copying". I have also noticed that when you walk alone during the day, girls largely avoid eye contact, but when you are walking with a girl, other girls shamelessly check you out, check her out, and even smile at you. Another example is when you schedule first dates, and you say something like 11:00 am, 3:00 pm And 5:00 pm Are open. They would all prefer it if you go to Ukraine to visit ONLY her, and they pretend to be offended, but their competitive nature takes over. A couple of girls pretended to get offended, told me "good luck", but then called some time later, willing to take one of the free times. Of course, by that time, I had to say that he times were taken and I had to push them on to the next day. One last example: on one occasion, I was having a beer at an outdoor bar near golden gates and some young girl 3 tables away kept looking at me and smiling. No, I am not that good looking anymore. She gave me a huge smile as we were leaving. I should have dumped my date, because she ended up leading nowhere. Idiot! What are they thinking? I do not know. Sometimes I imagine that they are thinking that they are better than the girl I am with, and sometimes they are, or maybe they are telling me that I could do better, and maybe I could. However, "a bird in the hand is worth two in the Bush". But then again "variety is the spice of life".
Nearby cities.
When I came back for the second leg of my trip, I spent one night in Zhytomyr (Monday) and a couple of nights in Dnipro (Tuesday and Wednesday). After spending the night in Kiev, and having a lunch date the next day, I headed to Zhytomyr, for only one night. It is only 150 Km. I met two girls, both young and child-free, and although they were nice enough, there were no sparks. It was a nice city; it was good to get out of Kiev for a change and to have two friendly tour guides. I had been in Dnipro before and had found it a waste of time. I returned specifically to meet 5 long-term pros. I had chatted with them online for several weeks, so they were promising. I think smaller cities sometimes have better girls, at least when it comes to potential marriage. Three of the girls were under 30 and without kids; 2 were single mums: one was over 30 and one under 30. I met all five, two of them twice. One came to Kiev the following weekend to close the deal. I tried to hit the pro scene but did not succeed.
Online sites.
In Kiev, all dating sites are quickly overwhelmed by pros. In addition of a marriage site, on which I had been for a couple of months, I went on Mamba, Badoo, and Tinder. I got the premium service on Tinder and mamba. Long-term pros require a little online seduction before you ask for a date. A week or two is enough. Again, you do not want to seem too desperate. Pros do not require any seduction, of course. Their first question is "are you in Kiev?" By the way, tinder in Kiev is completely different. Unlike North America, there are not uglies or fatties. They might as well eliminate the "swipe left" option.
Let's meet outside McDonalds.
I use it as my first test for long-term pros. Some girls are immediately offended by the suggestion. Thank you; you have revealed yourself. I am not interested. Others counter with some fancy restaurant. That is okay, but I do not know where that restaurant is. We can meet at McDonalds, a place I do know, and then, if we like each other, go somewhere else, a place of MY choice. I like places where there are lots of local people, where I can sit and watch people (girls) pass by, and where there are not too many foreign sex tourists (so, not Arena City). The gold-diggers prefer the exact opposite: otherwise empty restaurants or bars, you know it will either be a partial scam (you will buy her an expensive dinner and never see her again) or a total scam (she is in collusion with the restaurant to bring you in and charge you exorbitant prices). Going to a place with a good view of passers-by is also good because it keeps your date humble. They see that there are MANY options in Kiev. If she ever complains about you looking at other women, you have a troublemaker in your hands.
Non-pros or long-term pros.
The problem with long-term pros (marriage-minded girls, or "non-pros") is that they take up a lot of time. Sure, the first meeting can be limited to one hour, but the second tends to be a little longer, particularly if there are signs of interest. Meanwhile, other long-term pros, semi-pros, and hard-core pros are calling and texting. The third date has to be in the closer to the evening and involve drinks. At best, you can schedule two during the night, and if the first one works out, then you blew your chances with the second one. If I cannot close after 3 dates, I move on.
I had over 20 girls lined up in Kiev, but only 14 materialized into actual first dates. As usual, girls are suddenly unavailable when you are actually there, in their city. The dog is sick, they are out of town, the friend is having surgery, the grandmother I missing, etc. They are as creative as undergraduate students coming up with excuses for missing a test. Of the 14, for 5 there was no real connection. In a couple of cases, the date lasted no more than 15 minutes. Why waste each other's time? Either they were clearly not interested, or I did not find them attractive in person. Why do they put up photos from 10 years ago?! In all instances, I made it absolutely clear that I only had one hour. Some pretended to be offended at the fact that I might be dating other girls, but deep down, it is better if they are aware they are competing against other girls. Several tried to stick around to check out their competition but I changed locations and left 30 minutes between dates.
Of the 9, I managed to schedule a second date with only 8. These were a little longer: a walk in the park, skating, the beach, the circus, lunch and a walk, a museum, etc. Of those, 5 made it into a third date and I closed the deal with 4. Actually, one of them took a fourth date. I gave her leeway because I blew it a little on the second date by jumping the gun.
I have not done an analysis of the cost, but I am going to suggest that whether you pay for or not, you usually pay about the same. How much? I will go back to the old standards: the price of your hotel room, the price or three dates, or 10 times the price of a haircut. I wonder if the second one includes the cost of dates that do not lead to sex?
Sometimes I think I should hire an administrative assistant. There is an old report of some guy who not only had the balls to hire a secretary to schedule his dates, but informed her that the job also included sex on demand. I guess that is an incentive for the secretary to be good at her job, or she will have to do all the heavy lifting. Someone should find it and make it a report with distinction.
Nightlife.
Even if you do not like nightclubs, it just seems like a waste to be in Kiev on a Friday or Saturday night and not enjoy some of the nightlife. I do not really like clubs other than to check out girls dancing while wearing their sexy dresses and high heels. However, I found myself at Caribbean club a three times and Sorry Babushka once. One evening, I found myself at some club by the beach, but we left as the sun went down. I am sure there are better places.
I am not a dancer, and I am not 25 anymore, so for me, clubs are not the best place to pick up girls. Nevertheless, it is still possible to look at pretty girls, collect a few phone numbers, and have a little fun. I was at the beach club with a girl, and it was great, but I would certainly not go alone.
At Caribbean, a mature man is not out of place, and despite your determination not to pay inflated prices, there is always one girl that makes you want to throw away all your principles. To me, it was a beautiful little blonde, the perfect combination of cute, sexy, feminine, and elegant. Luckily for me, she was with some guy all night. Maybe she was not even a pro. For her, I might have broken my rules. I went back another two times specifically hoping to find her. Luckily (or not? I did not see her again. The Caribbean is one of the few places open and not completely empty Sunday to Thursday. Monday and Tuesday, it is free!
I am sure the best nightclubs are where there are no foreign sex tourists and plenty of oligarchs and their kids. I was told about Queen, and the-Fleur.
First time in Kiev. Very strange!
I had a weird situation. During my first 4 days, I had 2 dates with a girl: single mum, 33, extremely beautiful but not pretentious. On the first date, we just talked for an hour and a half, sitting on a bench. On the second date, we walked around the centre and talked for 2 or 3 hours. Then, I had to leave for 5 days.
When I returned, I waited a several days to call her again. I had been a little too aggressive at the end of the second date, and I thought I had blown it. I had not. One day, another date cancelled, and I gave her a call. She was happy to hear from me. We went for a couple of drinks, and I thought she was ready, but to compensate for last time, decided not to push too much. On the fourth date (broke my rule! Which happened the next day, we went to the beach (fantastic body!) and she drove me back home. The sex was incredible. I spend a lot time with her during my last few days.
The odd part is that I did not spend a cent on her, before or after sex. She insisted on paying for her own stuff. I had never seen this on a Kiev girl! Well, twice before, but not to this extend. In one case, she did not spend anything and in the other one, she started accepting after we had sex. Anyway, this girl sometimes she even paid for my drink! She drove us where we had to go, and dropped me off at my place. She drove a luxury SUV, had fake boobs, and on occasion referred to a driver who used to take her kid to school and other activities. Her kid had all the usual activities, like a western kid, but with personal coaches. One day, I said I could use some exercise, and suggested we go to her gym (it was clear that she worked out! Well, her "gym" was actually a luxury social club with a restaurant, an outdoor sunning area, indoor and outdoor swimming pools, Jacuzzis, tennis courts, and yes, a gym. I assume the guest pass was not free, but whatever the cost, she took care of it. How do you say "put it on my tab" in Russian? Of course, she also had the latest iPhone. We ate together thrice. Well, actually, she waited while I had a basic "meat and potatoes" type of meal at a normal restaurant, and then we would go to a fancy restaurant where she would order and pay for her own ridiculously priced weird food. One night, she was having dinner and drinks for a friends' birthday at some luxury restaurant that turned into a nightclub at night (she sent me photos), but about midnight she took a cab and came to my apartment, all dressed up! At the end, she drove me to the airport, and on the way, blew 1000 UAH on gas. She vehemently refused to accept any money. She claimed to have some sort of internet job. I saw her web site (NO, not a sex site! But I did not see how it could generate enough money to support her lifestyle. Did I stumble on some oligarch daughter who thinks of me as a toy boy? Or rather, a toy middle-aged man? Did she divorce the only man in Ukraine who pays alimony and child support at North American levels? Did she somehow fall in love with me? It was weird situation.
The last several days, I spend most of my free time with her. She partially curtailed my other activities, but I was okay with it. She had to go home to her kid most nights and she did not come back to my place until the mid-afternoon. It was enough time to schedule a few dates late in the evening. However, all the other long-term girls who could only meet me in the early evening were squeezed out of contention.
In summary.
Of over 25 long-term pros that I had set up from before, 5 eventually paid out. Well, maybe 4, as one was definitely not a long-term pro. She had no interest in money! Four were from Kiev and one from Dnipro, and I completely struck out in both Dnipro an Zhytomyr, but one girl came to see me in Kiev. I also had three new first dates with "non-pro" girls from Tinder and mamba, but they did not progress, and one girl form the English class. I continued my relationships with 5 semi-pros that I knew from previous trips. They added two of their friends to the regular rotation. Finally, I found another 6 pro or semi-pro girls, 2 or 3 of whom I hope to meet again. The new girls came from Mamba and Tinder. The prices were from 1500 to 2000 UAH, with two at 2300 UAH.
Whether I am paying for it directly or indirectly, or not paying for it at all, it seems I am moving towards long-term relationships.
exchanged another $500 USD. I know a place with a good rate. Do not look at the exchange rate but rather at the buy-sell spread.
No! Exchange places that focus on converting from foreign currency to uah often refuse to exchange the other direction, using some flimsy excuse (they don't have enough foreign currency at the moment, you need receipts of some sort). So they can make the spread as small as they want but still give a terrible rate on buying uah. Ignore the spread and focus on the uah buy rate (more uah per dollar, the better).
Anyway, ATM cards should give good rates, 1% from mid-market for USA banks like Schwab or CapitalOne. Raiffeisen bank on Pyrohova near the University in central Kyiv has 6 ATMs stocked with nice crispy 500 uah notes. They charge a 50 uah fee per withdrawal, but you can withdraw 20000 uah at once, so fee is negligible percentage. Plus Schwab bank refunds ATM fees.
Finally, if you are a regular visitor to Kyiv, don't bother converting extra uah back to foreign currency, assuming just a small amount, as it should be if you planned well. Just save it for next time. Suppose you have 1000 uah excess, worth about $40. Even with 10% inflation between visits (actual inflation currently much less), you lose just $4.
prices you see on Kiev Escort Club (KEC-maybe the old GIA), which is an elite agency, range from 4 K to 6 K, but they include 50% for the house.Just clarify, it is well known that KEC / Gia house cut is / was 60%, so girl gets 40%. Stated clearly at the recruiting agency website: https://www.aemal.org. House percentage for hidden agencies (agencies working mamba and tinder, relaxkiev, etc) is usually 50%, but they also hit girls with fines and other charges so that girls get less than 50% (which is why they hate those hidden agencies).
Sorry. Thank you for that out, which further supports my argument.
Regular girls, semi-pros, or even pros after that have developed a good rapport with you, should be happy with about 1500 to 2000 UAH.
Just clarify, it is well known that KEC / Gia house cut is / was 60%, so girl gets 40%. Stated clearly at the recruiting agency website: https://www.aemal.org. House percentage for hidden agencies (agencies working mamba and tinder, relaxkiev, etc) is usually 50%, but they also hit girls with fines and other charges so that girls get less than 50% (which is why they hate those hidden agencies).
I respectfully disagree, and agree.
Yes, changing your left over UAH back into USD is more difficult. (1) Some places may not have small bills, as we all change 100's only. Some places may have 50's and less likely, 20's, but you definitely should not expect to get 10's, 5's or 1's. (2) if you want to change money early in the day and on a weekend (say your flight is on noon on Sunday), you might be out of luck. You may have to check several places, and your last chance would be at the airport, where the rate is really bad.
So my strategy is not to change too much USD on my last two days or I may have to go home with a handful of useless UAHs, until the next time I visit. Second, I use only one place, where, by the time I change a little money back into USDs, I have been going daily and changing hundreds of USDs for a couple of weeks or more. They usually help as much as they can. Finally, I am okay with keeping as much as 500 UAH as I head to the airport, maybe buying a burger there, and leaving the rest in the "save the kids" charity box.
However, the reason why I look at the spread, not the actual rates, is that, whatever the spread, it always includes the "real" rate. The real rate is the rate you get on google, or XE, or transfer wise. If the spread is only 10 UAH cents (0.1 of about 25 UAH per USD, or about 0. 4%), they are making only 5 UAH cents on either side (that is 0.2 % on either side), so they cannot screw you too much. Places with a narrow spread change track the real rate more closely and change more often, or they could get screwed. Places with a wide spread have a larger buffer and do not need to check the real rate as often. If you trade currency professionally you will know that the rate changes per second, and the spread is minuscule.
One trick I noticed several years ago was that some places tried to trick unsuspecting foreigners. For example, if everyone had a rate of around 26.50 per USD, some places had the middle or the last two numbers transposed (25.60 or 26.05 per USD). Also not that at night, on weekends, and near arena city, the spread is larger.
If your bank does not charge too many extra fees for using your card in Ukraine, and the rate spread is small, and you trust Ukrainian ATMS's, then it is also an option, I suppose.
No! Exchange places that focus on converting from foreign currency to uah often refuse to exchange the other direction, using some flimsy excuse (they don't have enough foreign currency at the moment, you need receipts of some sort). So they can make the spread as small as they want but still give a terrible rate on buying uah. Ignore the spread and focus on the uah buy rate (more uah per dollar, the better).
Anyway, ATM cards should give good rates, 1% from mid-market for USA banks like Schwab or CapitalOne. Raiffeisen bank on Pyrohova near the University in central Kyiv has 6 ATMs stocked with nice crispy 500 uah notes. They charge a 50 uah fee per withdrawal, but you can withdraw 20000 uah at once, so fee is negligible percentage. Plus Schwab bank refunds ATM fees..
PhotoSlider
08-02-19, 03:03
Just clarify, it is well known that KEC / Gia house cut is / was 60%, so girl gets 40%. Stated clearly at the recruiting agency website: https://www.aemal.org. House percentage for hidden agencies (agencies working mamba and tinder, relaxkiev, etc) is usually 50%, but they also hit girls with fines and other charges so that girls get less than 50% (which is why they hate those hidden agencies).KEC also adjusted GIA progressive scale in an interesting way. Take a look at their discounts, currently running:
https://kievescort.club/girl/eva14
1 hour $200 regular, no discount. About 5000 UAH / hour with the girl getting 40% = 2000 UAH.
2 hours $300 regular, $250 after discount = $125/ hour.
3 hours $350 regular. $300 after discount = $100/ hour.
10 hours $750 regular. $700 after discount = $70/ hour, translating into about 1800 UAH / hour.
As they say, "the more you pay, the more you save".
Paying in UAH, as Stevie69 suggests, makes it even better. Discount starts right away:
1 hour 5 K UAH regular, 4 K UAH after discount. With the girl getting 40% = 1600 UAH.
2 hours 7 K UAH regular, 6 K UAH after discount = 3 K UAH / hour.
3 hours 9 K UAH regular. 8 K UAH after discount = 2. 7 K UAH / hour.
10 hours 16 K UAH regular. 15 K UAH after discount = 1500 UAH / hour.
50 USD or 1 K UAH discount is applied only once, and not progressively.
And the girl herself IMHO is average. 156 cm = 5'4", smokes, 26 years old on paper, maybe older in reality, has an OK list of offerings, and seems overweight even on photo-shopped pictures.
For 15 K UAH paid to KEC after 10 hours with mediocre girl, one can have 7-10 hourly girls, with at least 3 to 5 of them being better than Eva.
Surely there are much more attractive KEC ladies, but they are never discounted, and are not readily available. As a result, despite the progressive scale and occasional discounts, KEC doesn't make sense anymore, especially with significantly lower quality of service since May 2018 police bust.
Stevie leaves out an important metric while mentioning 1500-2500 UAH range. I assume his quotes are not per hour, but rather per one meeting with indie from Mamba, etc. Mamba girls and indies from other resources usually establish price per meeting, not an hour. Either way that's how we should negotiate it, in UAH, and definitely not per an hour, but rather per multiple hours.
One of my favorites agreed to 1 K UAH per an hour, and to me she is better than even the best GIA girls that I had before finding her. I never pay her more than 5 K UAH, even when we stay together for 7-9 hours. I do provide good wine and very good food + entertainment. This all adds up quickly, even though she prefers not to stay overnight. Fortunately she likes what we do together, and lately we started meeting without direct payments for her services, sometimes without sex, sometimes with, I greatly enjoy her company regardless.
Other regulars staying with me for multiple days incur wining+dining and entertainment also get 3-5 K UAH per visit departure envelop without discussing or even opening it. There is also occasional shopping or beauty salon services, but nothing outrageous, definitely no jewelry. Those girls that objected going to fast food like "Puzata Hata" when time is of essence, have been terminated. I do eat home frequently, and certainly enjoy good romantic dinner at the fancy restaurant.
Warning, I am digressing now and going on the tangent. The following is somewhat relevant to competitive nature of Ukrainian ladies that Stevie69 mentions. Anyway:
One thing I strongly despise is a dinner that I know will not end up in bed, when I want that to happen. Even if it's not a scam, and I can afford it, I detest being treated as an ATM. I do not mind at all paying for my GFs, when it's all good fun, when we are staying together, or I run into them and invite. But being invited to a date with a single reason to pay is above my level of tolerance.
One of my all time favorites has been retired this June precisely for trying to lure and milk me. I had great relationship with her 2-3 years ago, and she's a true beauty in many ways. We met again in May, despite my intuition telling me not to. Subconsciously I didn't pursue her aggressively, didn't ask for dates, as she has countless admirers, and I decided not to be one of many hundreds of begging males around her Instagram. That intrigued her, because she is used to being chased after.
First she sent me few beautifully edited pictures of herself walking around Kiev. I didn't react as expected. She started inviting me.
First dinner was at the very fancy place of her choice. She did say that there are much more expensive places in Kiev, and to her credit kept the menu choices reasonable. We even shared plates, but there was no chemistry between us, she noticeably changed, became more calculating. I stayed calm, because my mind was with couple other much more willing and better behaving ladies. But I still remember how sweet her pussy was in many ways, and how skillful she was in bed. Surprisingly it didn't affect my decision making, and she didn't suck any energy out of me this time.
She invited me again after I didn't contact her for couple days. I insisted on fast food "Puzata Hata", we certainly ate there before during her University days. She didn't object. Next day she smiled and said we can do better.
Next one was fancy, expensive, very romantic, lots and lots photos of her were taken, as she has a selfie addiction and hypertrophied narcissism. We grew closer to each other, certainly my vanity was satisfied. That's where I should have stopped, but she is a great actress masterfully pushing all the right buttons. I do not remember which is one of seven deadly sins, Vanity or Pride, and she surely fed mine well.
I kept going out with other girls, two of them at different times staying at my place, and others going in and out. Life was great, except the above Lady in Question (let's call her Elizabeth) wanted to be treated as a Princess, going to Theaters, receiving expensive gifts and most importantly unwavering attention. I didn't comply. That's when she switched to full frontal attack, and asked why I do not invite her to Theater. I explained that I am busy with business meetings. Indeed I was busy with 20 years old music college student, who was departing at 5 pm, while at 5:30 pm another beauty was expected at Mafia restaurant. The latter one I already had the pleasure to have in my arms, and appreciate how vigorously she loves to fuck despite being only 19.
It was Sunday afternoon and bored Elizabeth asked me straight via Viber if we can go to Theater. My 19 years old wasn't fully confirmed, and I decided on keeping Elizabeth as a backup option, telling her maybe. That's where her high self-esteem and many years of playing love games went into full gear. She countered with a demand of telling her yes or no, otherwise she would go to visit her parents in suburbs. I replied sure, go as you please. She wasn't satisfied, asking if I already bought the tickets, and can she go with her mom instead if I cannot. I laughed detecting a cock / pussy-blocking maneuver. She was trying to eliminate the rival that she implicitly sensed, but not yet asked about. That's when I made up my mind, and said again yes please go see your parents, I have no tickets. But I already had them.
Then another drama played out with 19 years old no-show, I sold great tickets at half cost to two different dressed-up older ladies in their 50's, the first of them tried to insist on me going with her. I declined. Then no-show materialized out of thin air, and I bought almost the same tickets, losing only about 100 UAH.
Forgive my rant and too much detail. If you are already bored, please stop reading.
Next day we spent few hours together with Elizabeth, drinking wine from plastic glasses on the bench in one of the downtown parks and laughing enjoying each other company. She asked even more openly why I do not take her to Theater anymore. We used to go in the past every few days many many times. That's how we met in the first place. I explained that tonight I am busy, and tomorrow Monday there are no performances. Let's go to cinema then, was her immediate response. I ignored, and foolishly suggested Tuesday. So, I left Maria, my faithful and very accommodating girlfriend at our apartment yet again, and went to Theater, dressed in decent jeans, black T-shirt and Ralph Lauren blazer. Elizabeth showed up in all her Glory, semi-transparent classy dress, push up bra, six inch stiletto high heels, hair-do, eyelashes and more. She criticized my outfit, because in the past she used to choose my shirts for going out, even ironed them. These 2-3 years certainly made her more jaded and motivated in a particular way. I laughed and explained that the ushers will let me in as I am.
During the performance she grew more and more affectionate, thanked me, said how much she liked what she watched on the stage. Performance was definitely outstanding. We had the best seats, and I was thinking how to get away from her and return to my Maria waiting at the apartment only a block away.
Why stupid me got myself into this predicament? Can not blame Elizabeth, as she couldn't agree with me not fully appreciating her beauty. That's why she said let's go have a dinner after the show. So we did. I texted Maria saying that I am getting delayed. Maria sent back hearts and kisses and asking not to worry, finish what I had to do, and she has no problem.
Restaurant was sufficiently upscale. Again, Elizabeth didn't choose the most expensive items, it was decent though. I had good tea, she shared her glass of Chardonnay with me. And just when I thought it was over, she turned and asked:
- Let's go to your place now, and have some champagne! You have some left, don't you?
For many days she avoided inviting me to her downtown apartment. Maybe that was the condition dictated by her sponsor, maybe something else. I never went to girls places before cautiously avoiding meeting their significant others and such. Yet this time my answer was:
- Let's go to yours instead.
That's when I saw how short her fuse is. She walked out sternly, and said good-bye. I politely insisted on taking her home in the cab, as it was only 10 minutes ride. Upon arrival I apologized and explained that I couldn't even dream about staying with her, and that unfortunately I cannot tonight. She was visibly displeased, but mostly behaved. Kiev ladies have class. She did accuse me of doing all this on purpose. I do not know how much of this drama was played, and how much was sincere. Obviously her ego was hurt by losing significant source of income and fun, and I was an idiot for taking the matters that far. I suggested meeting tomorrow, and she said yeah right when you become free from your obligations.
I arrived home completely exhausted. Elizabeth sent me a nasty good night:
- Have an energetic and restless one!
Maria went out to meet my cab outside in the new lovely dress I haven't seen before radiating with smiles and I thought what a lucky man I am to have her, and why do I create these problems out of nothing? We went around the corner to Avalon, and after an hour or two I eventually returned back to life.
Next day was full of pure happiness and joy with Maria. She is one of those Ukrainian ladies enjoying life, not asking any unnecessary questions, ready to join me any time, but not submissive at all, there's good dignity in her for sure. I prefer dealing with equal partners.
We had few conversations with Elizabeth after I departed from Kiev. We do have certain arrangements that we carry on regardless. She didn't quite kick me out completely, yet the trust that we managed to build this May has been damaged significantly. I am happy to know that she is not bitter at all. She is strong and smart young lady with good manners and firmly set objectives in life.
What is the conclusion?
Kiev ladies are very competitive and know the game inside out, as that's their primary occupation.
I should have had more respect for both Elizabeth and Maria. After all they are Human Beings.
Keep it simple, gentlemen. Do not let your ladies overlap too much.
...whatever the spread, it always includes the "real" rate. The real rate is the rate you get on google, or XE, or transfer wise.Not always. I have seen places with entire spread below XE currency mid-market (what you call the real rate). In theory, someone could make a profit changing uah to dollars there, then changing back to uah somewhere else. But what happens is they simply refuse to change uah to dollars. Clever scam.
Almost as easy as checking spread size is to check mid-market rate on XE currency, then compare with uah buy rate. Should be off by only 1/10 uah.
DramaFree11
08-02-19, 14:10
KEC should not be used under any circumstances, way too much money for those type of girls. The picture of the girl posted most guys could have for free or $100 max, if you have any game at all.
Perhaps we should move this conversation to the currency transaction discussion board. People might be asking.
Not always. I have seen places with entire spread below XE currency mid-market (what you call the real rate). In theory, someone could make a profit changing uah to dollars there, then changing back to uah somewhere else. But what happens is they simply refuse to change uah to dollars. Clever scam.
Almost as easy as checking spread size is to check mid-market rate on XE currency, then compare with uah buy rate. Should be off by only 1/10 uah.
PhotoSlider
08-03-19, 00:58
Perhaps we should move this conversation to the currency transaction discussion board. People might be asking.Not neccessarily. It is educational, comes from qualified resources (both of you), and we do not want it hidden, as it is unlikely to get obsolete. It surely doesn't bother me.
I saw one more trick at the exchange booth next to Subway / Metro Teatral'na Station:
The exchange rate from USD to UAH was unusually high. But they had a certain per transaction fee. Never saw that before. They warned me, and I bailed out. To your point, spread was wider than others.
I usually scout 3-5 familiar kiosks in close vicinity for the best rate, and exchange between 500 and 2000 USD. For that much money I prefer 500 UAH banknotes. Ukraine is about to introduce 1000 UAH one.
When I depart, I keep anywhere from 100 to 1000 UAH in the wallet, whatever is left. That could be irrelevant to those who may not return any time soon.
In the past I attempted exchange back to USD, and it required local Ukrainian passport. My driver helped. Then I switched to spending leftover UAHs at duty free. Now I leave UAHs and even all USD+EUR cash with reliable driver. I know him for 4 years. He performs occasional transaction requests while I am away, sends out merchandise to me, etc. As I became more frugal, stopped ordering from GIA, and established a network of local regulars, I tend to leave more behind with every departure.
Did anybody establish a bank account, accessible from both Kiev and Italy or Germany or US? I know there are few international banks allowing that, but I never got a chance to follow through.
I also keep my SIM card for over 4 years with the same number, even when I am away for longer than 6 months, the typical period of time, when cellular carrier may sell the number to someone else. I can surely use Viber with my driver over Free WiFi at KBP, but I feel safer with having a working phone the moment aircraft touches the ground. If my cellular account gets depleted, I can contact driver over WiFi, and in Kiev he can transfer money from his bank account to my phone number while waiting for me.
Fluctuations do not concern me much, even though I have seen it going from 5 to 8 to 28 and now down to 25 UAH per USD. Price of commodities doesn't change radically in USD. If anything, quality of basic services improved and / or they became wider available.
Hello,
I have a quick report of Kiev. But first, I will deal with a few recent issues on this thread.
First, the naysayers. I do not understand. Maybe they are trying to keep you from visiting so you do not overpay and ruin the market. The best way to keep the prices down and the quality is to prevent newbies from coming and throwing around money like assholes. So, yes, it is really horrible in Ukraine!! Please stay home!
Second, there was a recent report of high numbers of girls over an entire month, with reasonable prices. If you know what you are doing, that will be your experience. I pay 1500 to 2000 UAH, and on rare occasions I can be persuaded to pay up to 2500 UAH. There is no reason to pay 3 K or 4 K or 5 K. There is no reason to pay in USD, or worse in USDs by the hundreds. The prices you see on Kiev Escort Club (KEC-maybe the old GIA), which is an elite agency, range from 4 K to 6 K, but they include 50% for the house. So, even your best fantasy girl costs only 3000 UAH.
Third, about the newbie going for one day, I think in September. It is unlikely that he will find anything good for a reasonable price.Can't believe I read your whole report, I mean book. Haha.
Glad you had some positive experiences and met a woman that really liked spending time with you. A lot of people on this board forget that Kiev girls are real people. You gave her a good time and she responded back positively. Nothing weird about that. Many Slavic guys are looking for a woman to work, cook and be cleaners. If you treat them like meat, then they will treat you only like money. If you treat them with respect and as a man (open doors, be the leader of the date, etc.). Then they will act like a nice woman most of the time. I read a lot of negative comments, but have had success with most UA girls. This does not mean to be a wimp in bed. Be sure to fuck them good and push their head into the pillow.
So, looking through this thread, I've learned the pictures are 99% fake, on websites like kievlady, relaxkiev, golden-panther, minuet. Biz, and so on. Just to confirm, are the rates and services on these websites fake as well? I've been reading about how the standard prices seem to be 2100 UAH. Is that for getting a relatively good looking girl, or basically for everyone? I. E. Are there cheaper options if one's willing to settle for less?
Good afternoon,
I visit Kiev very often and love erotic massages, during the time in Kiev I visited almost all massage parlors and was very disappointed until I visited the Honey Salon erotic massage parlor, everything was fine, beautiful girls, the interior was nice massage) I advise everyone to visit the massage parlor http://www.honeysalon.kiev.ua/.
Massive update due, sorry guys. I haven't been busy as much as just tired. I think I know why. I have this nagging muscle strain. No, not my third leg, its one of the others actually. My right leg's top quad, that front-facing strand that goes from the bottom of the hip to the top of the knee and surrounding a little. It was sore earlier starting from maybe the first time I went running here, finally getting better, then I decided I need to go running again, and fuck me here we are even worse than before. Since I'm always walking up and down these hills and flights of steps, it's not still for long. And when I sit on the couch, I just shut down as my thigh doth protesteth. But I'm going to get this update today, and I'm going to try not to talk your ear off!
We left off at day 13, a graduation to outcall from a distinguished forum member's contact.
From the portfolio that was sent to me, I selected a lovely young lady named Nastya (short for Anastasia, as she sweetly corrected my pronunciation when we met). [see attached pic]
There was a little drama in the delivery, but it was resolved and before the slidenifil wore off she was finally in my apartment. Just a note, the girl's "taxi" you pay for is really her bodyguard and / or pimp. I paid the "taxi driver" the full amount of 2100 UAH. Awkward but, we were so spun around trying to find eachother everybody was beat up by the time we finally did (including the driver). LOL.
This girl is a real sweetheart, she was dressed in chiffon sea-green dress, classic lean lithe perfect Ukrainian body. She is probably in her mid-20's, from Kiev (genetic admixture is as local as it gets), she is a well heeled young lady, tall and has perfect posture, slim cut in the waist. Natural short blonde hair, blue eyes, everything real, nothing fake. So feminine. And strong as hell! You see what those legs are made of when that dress comes off!! Not muscular, just functional. She clearly has a kid, her tits gave it away. Not only speaks no English, but her Ukrainian is so local google translate simply couldn't make heads or tails of what she meant.
She has a typical hooker pussy, so its going to be loose, but not terribly loose that it can't get the job done. Just expect to do all of the work. A couple of times I ended up "shifting" in there, and she may have winced but was able to relax through it. If she relaxes too much you won't feel a thing, like sticking your dick in a jar full of mayonnaise. And I actually started early, I was probably her first customer of the day. With all that being said, I think she came twice, once for sure because I could feel it.
As sweet as she is, it was all business. She is a consummate professional, so no personal connection there that's why I didn't bother to extend (although at the end she was hugging me and was all smiles). A quick anecdote. I just found a new thing over here called "kvac" (pronounced "kvass" as in "Courvoisier" I had some in the fridge and offered her some as we first met in my apartment. She jestfully obliged as I explained how I just found out about this new thing hehe. At the end she wanted something to drink I told her to welcome herself to what I had around, she saw that I was low on drinking water, so she just said she'll go for the kvac again. Unselfishness is so damn sexy.
Day 16.
Back to the apartments. I was just getting settled into my new place so I didn't feel like having a girl over. And boy was I glad, because I got a lucky hit. I got a golden session! Omfg here in Kiev of all places amiright!? Girl is named marianna it was at an apartment in the middle of whatever that street Khreschatyk turns into when it gets past the arena. Did the stars line up for that? Who knows, but look at what preceded it. Me and cabby first tried one apartment before it (next door to this one) where I saw this one girl in the lineup named damira. Sexy AF but something told me to keep moving, maybe come back if the other was bunk. Cabby was getting annoyed at all the moving around so I wasnt going to tax him any further, I told him if the next one if bunk I'll do takeout for damira. She heard me saying that on the way out and yelled back "minimum 5 hours!" to which I replied on the way out, "is that a threat or a promise!" hahalol.
Well, he took me to the next place where I saw marianna. She was one of three, not the prettiest girl of the three but something told me to pick her. She had a baggy black pantsuit on, and what I can only describe as blonde "90's rock chick hair". She's a little chubby butt, and her face is a little chubby too. She mutters under her breath, doesn't really speak much. Maybe she was high? But after payment was tendered, the second the door shut, she grunted something about "god damn sexy motherfucker", her clothes came off along with mine, we started rubbing bodies and well, it was a golden session! Oral didn't even have a chance. Her body felt great to me, little chubby butt and everything hehee. After we came, I let her know that I am tested 100% clean and I can't get her pregnant because of my hormone replacement therapy, as I started giving her a backrub, which turned into more sex. But this time she relaxed out for an extra loose experience. After a minute or two of that I got the hint so I just rolled off, didn't bother to try coming. I mentioned the idea of doing takeout to my place this weekend (and technically that would mean today), she mumbled "yeah whatever". How fantastically autistic of her!
Day 17.
This time I met up with a forum member's contact because this had been previously arranged. We just agreed to go to some new apartments, but 3 of the 4 he showed me I had already been to. The first one was the place from day 5 (where I stayed with alissya. Who happened to be there. Awkward. I bailed out and told him I would explain everything outside. I told him the whole alissya story and that I was holding my tongue the whole way over there. He laughed and said there is no need to spare his feelings. On the way to the next place he explained how the scene in the Czech Republic is completely garbage now and that even Kiev compared to a mere 3 years ago is a shadow of its former self. Girls around the world as a whole and in general are becoming uglier and uglier. Didn't matter because I told him about the one I had been to the day before where I skipped but saw an interest.
So I told him of the other apartments I had been to, but he said he wanted to check out one of them for sure because there might be a different lineup and it might be worth it. I was very okay with that because remember damira? I told him that I wanted to see if maybe she or someone equally intriguing was there. I had a burning nail in my pants that couldn't forget about that one, so I had to follow that thread and see where that adventure went. Aaaand she was there!
The minute she stepped out, we smiled at eachother and knew right away. Her body is killer, all natural, small tits, slim lean lithe, just how I like it. Long brown hair, cute-pretty face, she has that slightly upturned "st petersburg" nose I find irresistible. So elegant, so feminine. (dammit there's that nail again).
However she was too fucking professional. Didn't let me do anything that might her feel too good like backrub or anything. Wouldn't even really give me a hug. We lied down and she just ran her fingers over me, put this extra thick condom on and started sucking me off. Then she stopped and offered uncovered BJ for 1500 UAH extra, to which I suggested I would rather take her to my apartment and do everything with an extension there. I suggested she just relax and lets enjoy our time now and maybe know eachother a little too. To which she chortled and continued sucking me. I mean 1500 is really a bit much, especially upfront. But god-dammit her body tho. She really looks a lot like an amalgamation of two different pornstars I want to bed. I was tempted (still am). I said enough of this, got on top, and started to rock that pocket. She was clearly happy with me inside her, and her pussy is probably better than most, but I just couldn't come because of that fucking idiotic condom of hers. What an asinine product, seriously its like the thickness of a surgical glove. I think it's the durex in the dark lavender colored wrapper. I yanked it off, pitched the piece of shit to the ground, and had her jack me off. She may have been getting tired, there was a lot of start / stop, so I had to finish the job myself. I told her to find a better brand, as those are completely despicable. She nodded in understanding. Still ice at the end, not even a hug.
Told the guide about the experience and he said he felt it would be that way. He said he wanted to recommend the second girl in the lineup, a tall brunette who was giving me clever and playful banter (she was in the hall before I left too), but I had already had my choice. He also mentioned that he noticed how damira was the third girl coming out in the lineup, might have been indicative of something. Interesting observation.
So here we are.
It is Sunday (day 19). Eveningtime is approaching. I promised two girls an evening at home with me tonight. Don't know if either is available, but don't know if I should be with either of them.
Autisma (aka marianna) - knows how to make my dick happy but doesn't look to be good for much else than one good pop. She kinda hurts my brain, but that was a golden session.
VERSUS.
Icy hot (aka damira) - I might be able to melt her a little, which would make my dick happy, but there are no promises. Even if I do take her up on her offer for an upgrade here at the house, which I would LOVE to do, there are no guarantees of a pleasant overall experience with her. My spidey-senses tell me she's most likely a cold prickly, cleverly disguised as a warm fuzzy.
Hmm. What would olympic champion and inspirational role model brian boitano do?
Warning, I am digressing now and going on the tangent. The following is somewhat relevant to competitive nature of Ukrainian ladies ...
Forgive my rant and too much detail. If you are already bored, please stop reading.
Never. You detail the centerline realities of how this all plays out. Comparative experience provides invaluable wisdom, especially to someone who may feel dejected or demoralized by the game. And not just for today, you never know who / when this helps.
KEC should not be used under any circumstances, way too much money for those type of girls. The picture of the girl posted most guys could have for free or $100 max, if you have any game at all.Yes, be careful with KEC, if you decide to see a girl for the very first time, its best to make it just for one hour.
Day 17 Have you tried any of the clubs like Caribbean Club? Its been mentioned here, some positive, some neg. Reviews, maybe you will have better luck.
and that even Kiev compared to a mere 3 years ago is a shadow of its former self. Girls around the world as a whole and in general are becoming uglier and uglier.Kind members have tried to relay this reality.
Have you tried any of the clubs like Caribbean Club? Its been mentioned here, some positive, some neg. Reviews, maybe you will have better luck.Forgive any weirdness in the wordings with this post, I am writing from my phone. At a bar on pushchenkya st. ?
To answer the question, yes I've talked with cabby about going to carribean, probably going to do that soon. Going to go clubbing with the forum agent I met the other night. BTW he is a stand up guy, salt of the earth. To the member who sent me his way (you know who you are), THANK YOU!
One quick side note as well, in my last report, day 17 in re 'Icy Hot' , I found a bit that missed editing. Correction should read:
"She didn't let me start anything that might make her feel too good, like giving her a backrub or anything". Kind of important for the perspective of the situation. As for the weekend I didn't do anything just ended up staying home. Going to have to do something about the nail in my pants right now tho. Maybe I'll go to a massage place tonight, as a sort of palatte cleanser. Kinda like why they give you the ginger with sushi LOL.
Rondega978
08-05-19, 20:34
I was in Kiev last September after 10 years.
I remember the Kiev of River Palace and I was deceived.
I just found a good, maybe very good pro trough travelgirls before to go.
300 dollars for a couple of hour but it worth.
Then I found one trough tinder but was 100 dollars wasted.
For me Kiev if somebody know the old Kiev has no reason to go anymore.
I would like to post the ig profile of the good girl or her link to travelgirls but I don't know if I am allowed to do it for privacy rules.
I was in Kiev last September after 10 years.
I remember the Kiev of River Palace and I was deceived.
I just found a good, maybe very good pro trough travelgirls before to go.
300 dollars for a couple of hour but it worth.
Then I found one trough tinder but was 100 dollars wasted.
For me Kiev if somebody know the old Kiev has no reason to go anymore.
I would like to post the ig profile of the good girl or her link to travelgirls but I don't know if I am allowed to do it for privacy rules.River Palace 10 Years ago had some good looking girls all under the same roof which made it easier and more noticeable than other options at the time, But at US200+ for take out with a good % of that going into the pockets of security and management was in my mind at the time a price too much to pay to get Laid in Kiev.
I did many RP Girls at happy hour prices following day late afternoon early evening at US $ 100 . It was and still is my Benchmark Price for the type of girl I go for and wouldn't pay more than that in Kiev for it on strictly P4 P.
River Palace wasn't even the best club in the World at the time compared to Help in Rio de Janeiro. Just like Help, River Palace also closed in the same year 2010 but both Rio and Kiev moves on.
River Palace 10 Years ago had some good looking girls all under the same roof which made it easier and more noticeable than other options at the time, But at US200+ for take out with a good % of that going into the pockets of security and management was in my mind at the time a price too much to pay to get Laid in Kiev..What matters is that it was an open market of freelancers and mongers. That doesn't exist in Kiev anymore, only rampant scam.
Hi guys.
Wondering: does anyone know a trusted source in Kiew to walk in and get some Sildenafil or Viagra?
Would be easier than carrying back and forth.
Thanks guys.
DramaFree11
08-08-19, 08:15
I was in Kiev last September after 10 years.
I remember the Kiev of River Palace and I was deceived.
I just found a good, maybe very good pro trough travelgirls before to go.
300 dollars for a couple of hour but it worth.
Then I found one trough tinder but was 100 dollars wasted.
For me Kiev if somebody know the old Kiev has no reason to go anymore.
I would like to post the ig profile of the good girl or her link to travelgirls but I don't know if I am allowed to do it for privacy rules.RP was great, you are correct on your comments. Kiev was great then now mediocre at best. Kiev should be avoided by newbies unless you real have low standards.
DramaFree11
08-08-19, 08:18
River Palace 10 Years ago had some good looking girls all under the same roof which made it easier and more noticeable than other options at the time, But at US200+ for take out with a good % of that going into the pockets of security and management was in my mind at the time a price too much to pay to get Laid in Kiev.
I did many RP Girls at happy hour prices following day late afternoon early evening at US $ 100 . It was and still is my Benchmark Price for the type of girl I go for and wouldn't pay more than that in Kiev for it on strictly P4 P.
River Palace wasn't even the best club in the World at the time compared to Help in Rio de Janeiro. Just like Help, River Palace also closed in the same year 2010 but both Rio and Kiev moves on.Sorry I have to disagree with you, one of the few place worse for girls now is Rio, a major let down, should be avoided.
Hi guys.
Wondering: does anyone know a trusted source in Kiew to walk in and get some Sildenafil or Viagra?
Would be easier than carrying back and forth.
Thanks guys.Viagra is available over the counter at any pharmacy in Kiev.
Viagra is available over the counter at any pharmacy in Kiev.But if you ask for Viagra, they will sell brand name Viagra at $15/ pill, plus it might be counterfeit. Ask for sildenafil, which is the generic version. Should be 50 uah or less per 50 MG pill.
But if you ask for Viagra, they will sell brand name Viagra at $15/ pill, plus it might be counterfeit. Ask for sildenafil, which is the generic version. Should be 50 uah or less per 50 MG pill.Super, great. Thanks!
That makes it easier.
I just registered in this app and created a trip.
The response I got from females is amazing. About 20 girls contacted me with phone numbers in the first go.
They seem to charge an average of 15€/ hour as local guide to show the city. The possibilities seems limitless for someone with game. Anyone have some experience with this?
PhotoSlider
08-11-19, 07:56
I just registered in this app and created a trip.
The response I got from females is amazing. About 20 girls contacted me with phone numbers in the first go.
They seem to charge an average of 15/ hour as local guide to show the city. The possibilities seems limitless for someone with game. Anyone have some experience with this?I used it in 2017 specifically to get a partner to walk around city together for free, not even for flirt. I would expect it may proceed as far as enjoyable flirting, and perhaps no more than 1 out of 20 with our primary objective. Not to say it's impossible. Maybe things have changed in two years.
I just registered in this app and created a trip.
The response I got from females is amazing. About 20 girls contacted me with phone numbers in the first go.
They seem to charge an average of 15/ hour as local guide to show the city. The possibilities seems limitless for someone with game. Anyone have some experience with this?Well, yes. But how do you get to hook up for more than „just the tour" .
Booking half a dozen tours to eventually get luck? .
I was in Kiev last September after 10 years.
I remember the Kiev of River Palace and I was deceived.
I just found a good, maybe very good pro trough travelgirls before to go.
300 dollars for a couple of hour but it worth.
Then I found one trough tinder but was 100 dollars wasted.
For me Kiev if somebody know the old Kiev has no reason to go anymore.
I would like to post the ig profile of the good girl or her link to travelgirls but I don't know if I am allowed to do it for privacy rules.You can post the link.
I agree with you, for new guys and those without contacts I don't think its worth it to travel to Kiev anymore.
Strip clubs: like Rio are rip offs.
Escort agencies: post fake photos, only KEC posts real photos but photoshopped and girls are overpriced, look at Nina $300 for a fuked up pussy, she's been working there for at least 5-6 yrs.
Reg clubs: lucky to find a good looking girl with reasonable price.
Apartments: seems takes too much time to find a hit girl, read recent reports.
Better to stay the fuk home or travel some where else, its not worth it any more, its easy for good looking Ukrainian girls to travel abroad and work there.
DramaFree11
08-11-19, 21:25
You can post the link.
I agree with you, for new guys and those without contacts I don't think its worth it to travel to Kiev anymore.
Strip clubs: like Rio are rip offs.
Escort agencies: post fake photos, only KEC posts real photos but photoshopped and girls are overpriced, look at Nina $300 for a fuked up pussy, she's been working there for at least 5-6 yrs.
Reg clubs: lucky to find a good looking girl with reasonable price.
Apartments: seems takes too much time to find a hit girl, read recent reports.
Better to stay the fuk home or travel some where else, its not worth it any more, its easy for good looking Ukrainian girls to travel abroad and work there.Wow, finally sone honesty and someone that deals in the real world!
Great report!
perhaps no more than 1 out of 20 with our primary objective. Not to say it's impossible. Maybe things have changed in two years.This is what I wanted to know. The probability does not seem to worth the time and money. I will anyhow try this once just to scratch it off my list. Thanks for the inputs.
Well, yes. But how do you get to hook up for more than just the tour" .
Booking half a dozen tours to eventually get luck? .It won't make sense for me at least to keep book with many until I succeed. You point is very valid. That is the reason I was asking this forum to shred some knowledge on trying to understand the mindset of these girls.
My initial thoughts was that some girls would like to tag themselves away from being called as sluts / working girls. Hence I saw that this show around thing gives them a very proper excuse to convince themselves to keep their dignity and what happens on the tours is just being adults. Since they already made some money after the tour, having their guards completely down, it should be easy to approach or walk away. But listening to you seniors make me think that probably they are not in this mindset (Question)?
It won't make sense for me at least to keep book with many until I succeed. You point is very valid. That is the reason I was asking this forum to shred some knowledge on trying to understand the mindset of these girls.
My initial thoughts was that some girls would like to tag themselves away from being called as sluts / working girls. Hence I saw that this show around thing gives them a very proper excuse to convince themselves to keep their dignity and what happens on the tours is just being adults. Since they already made some money after the tour, having their guards completely down, it should be easy to approach or walk away. But listening to you seniors make me think that probably they are not in this mindset (Question)?Well, times have changed also there. No girl in Kiev was ever proud to be making pocket money on the side. You always had to give them the feeling of appreciation.
I just think the portal you mention offers reviews of clients etc that are all around the tours itself. The girls definitely want to make their way as a guide rather than a prostitute and they earn pretty well with those tours.
Keep in mind: average montly pay is in the 300 Euros. So. Offering a 2 hours tour for 60 Euros ist great. Also: if you go to a massage place you'll end up with a girl making herself (after paying the place) way less than this per hour.
So the choice is obvious.
I used it in 2017 specifically to get a partner to walk around city together for free, not even for flirt. I would expect it may proceed as far as enjoyable flirting, and perhaps no more than 1 out of 20 with our primary objective. Not to say it's impossible. Maybe things have changed in two years.I never used any Guides in Kiev but I do remember back in 2010 I suggested using a Night Guide to a senior, Asian Chaos, when he asked about Clubs and reserving tables at the best clubs. It was a bit of banter one of few other suggestions on Kiev's Nightlife at the time.
He later posted a long report on his experiences and his success with one such Night Guide.
Can't remember the name of the agency or guides at the time but a quick search here shows a link to Kiev Night Guides.
Nightlife Tour Guide Prices.
General Prices are US $ 65 for 5 hours long Tour. Payable beginning of the Tour. If you need a booking table in a club or airport taxi booking, you required to pay 15 US $ in advance.
The Mercy Seat
08-12-19, 21:36
Here is my perspective on the Girls in Kiev today. Some background on me. I first came to Kiev 7 years ago. I kind of early found a keeper and was With her for 5 years before ending. Have had a "special" friend in Kiev the last 2 years. The first 5 years I was in Kiev about 4 times a year. The last 2 years I have been in Ukraine about 2 times a year. I usually stay 7-14 days on each trip.
My last trip to Kiev was at the end of May this year. I had free time, it was weekend (both Saturday and Sunday) og the weather was very Nice. I sat on Khreschatyk and watched Girls for atleast 3-4 hours both days.
What did I see? There was a lot of Girls. I will say I say 2 hot 10's, one With a Rich boyfriend and one With exspensive gatgets and cloths. They where clearly spoken for and had high demands. I saw about 8 Girls that I would give a rating of 9. This doesn't say much in general since we all have different taste. But if I did the same Experiment within the first 3 years I went to Kiev (I often then also took time to watch Girls on Khreschatyk), I would have seen atleast 20-30 Girls I would classify as 10's. And basically most Girls would have been hot and in Nice cloths. Now? More fat, uglier and don't care as much about how they look it seems.
I have also gotten in touch With some New Girls the last 2 years. The trend seems to be the same. They are not so pretty as before and they cost more. Would I today if I started mongering in Kiev like it as much so that I will keep coming back? Maybe since I don't know better, but I would check out lot of other Places also for sure. So many hit and miss theses days. 7 years ago it was a no brainer. It was Nice and easy even thou I have never experienced River Palace. I had no need to go other Places. Even thou most People speak shitty English. If you are New in Kiev and starting mongering now With no contacts, you have a lot of work Ahead of you to find a reasonable priced gem. When / If my relationship With my friend ends and I have lost contact With most of the few Girls I do know there, I don't think I will visit Ukraine that much. The plus side is still that Ukraine is a cheap country to have a vacation in. Girls are normally cheaper here than other Places. But now very difficult to find a good girl since basically all Girls use fake Pictures.
Broski.
Thanks for all the info that this this thread has shared. Can't wait to have a blast sightseeing and hopefully find my match on Tinder or Mamba. Expectations is to have fun. All be in Ukraine from 13-2. I'll be staying at near Independence Square. Would be awesome to meet some peeps at this forum for a drink.
Hello IST fellows,
I will visit Kiev for a week (9/7-9/14). Do you have any contacts or tips that you could share via PM? If you are also in Kiev, let's meet up for a drink. Thanks!
Hey everyone,
I am booked to go to Kiev in mid September. I am not a fan of doing the online thing to meet girls. I would rather do in person. Can you tell me, is there certain bars and clubs the working girls hang out at? I would rather meet them at a bar that way than online. Any help would be appreciated. Also what is KEC?
Thanks.
Also what is KEC?
Thanks.Escort agency.
https://escort.vc/news
Have any members here experienced the saunas?
PhotoSlider
08-17-19, 22:49
This is what I wanted to know. The probability does not seem to worth the time and money. I will anyhow try this once just to scratch it off my list. Thanks for the inputs.As others have explained, there is an attitude gradient with respect to girls considering themselves "I am not a prostitute!
It starts with semi-pros, indies and mamba girls sleeping for compensation, and not thinking of themselves as hardcore prostitutes.
Then there are erotic masseuses, few more grades down. They jerk off customers to the happy ending, allow for an occasional cuni and even DFK, but no penetration on premises. No fucking, and no BJ. Outcalls may result in sex. Building relationship is also possible.
Next level are show-around girls. Just like all of the above, they sell the promise, the ever so elusive pursuit of happiness. They never commit verbally to anything solid. Showing night life, being your wingwoman is as far as it goes. I do see some $50 an hour ladies. Maybe those fuck. I also know that at least one Ukrainian show around girl flew out to Italy with expenses paid, and refused to provide. She in fact threw a tantrum when one of the hobbyists assumed she would, and especially when the guy expressed displeasure with her refusal. She insisted that she is an honest young lady, and he was gravely mistaken. She told me that story herself, and took great pride in punishing the guy.
Next level are show-around girls. Just like all of the above, they sell the promise, the ever so elusive pursuit of happiness. They never commit verbally to anything solid. Showing night life, being your wingwoman. Is as far as it getsThere are two sides of this game with showaround girls when thinking only from our (not girl's) perspective.
1. Desperately hoping that something will happen and behave strange around that girl and give her an upper hand and a chance for her to easily deny the offer and help her prove to herself that she is "not that kind of girl".
2. Accept already that nothing is going to happen, enjoy the night clubs and her being your wing woman. Confuse her to the hell as to why we don't flirt with her and use all her knowledge and language to get to know other girls and bring their guards down. I would think that are good 20 $ per spent on first day + few drinks on her. But remember, some of us are adventurous and like to have a game before getting in between their legs.
I appreciate the discussions here, Kiev thread is very much alive and full of great thinkers.
Another summer in Kyiv comes to an end. I saw same escort girl as previous two summers, 24 meetings (twice weekly) of about 4 hours each. Her standard rate for 4 hours is $150 uah (or $110 for 2 hours, $80 for 1 hour, rates unchanged since two years ago) but I raised to $190 in June plus gave $2000 bonus at final meeting (bonus not promised or discussed prior to final meeting), so total of about $6450, or much more than standard rate, especially if calculated on basis of 24 shorter length meetings. Based on ATM withdrawals and difference between cash on hand at arrival and departure, additional cash expenses of $3305 over 87 days: $28/ night for apartment, $10/ day for food, medical tests, entertainment, local transportation.
I paid girl extra for several reasons: incentivize her to continue seeing me in the future even if she stops seeing other clients (I can sense she is already reducing her escort work); prospect of bonus encourages reliable service (she has indeed been very reliable, possibly because of smaller bonuses at end of previous two summers); take her off market to some extent, by raising price for anyone who wants to sponsor her full-time; better to give excess money to someone I like while alive than let distant relatives inherit it when I die (no children of my own). Instead of raising rate and giving big bonus, I could have simply arranged more meetings. However, I get bored seeing her more than twice weekly. In fact, if living year-round in Kyiv, once a week would be plenty.
Several weeks ago, girl removed her Viber photo and also set Viber to private mode so I can't tell when she last logged in. When I first noticed these changes, I thought she was going ghost, maybe because she met a boyfriend her own age, or maybe just tired of escorting. I felt sad at losing her and disgusted at prospect of having to seek a replacement. Turned out to be a false alarm, as she responded as usual to my message setting up our next meeting. At that meeting, she explained that someone from her native village, who isn't supposed to know she is an escort, somehow discovered her escort work number, which is why she removed the photo. She also said she doesn't have a boyfriend currently and her last boyfriend had no job and no money, lived with his parents, was jealous and controlling and younger than her, and similar story with all her ex-boyfriends. I think she has become spoiled by associating with wealthy older foreign men as clients.
Sex with current girl is routine at this point and we have little to say to one another. On the other hand, sex is consistently good, like a well-oiled machine, she has never done or said anything to annoy me (other than occasionally forgetting to set her smartphone to "do not disturb" mode), I feel comfortable with her in my bed and sad at the idea of losing her. Compare with every other escort, sugar baby or ordinary unpaid girlfriend I've been with for the past 15 years, who I soon grew tired of, plus more than half the time I was impotent with these other women. Overall, she makes me feel sexually content, in the sense that the sexual part of my life is taken care of, even during remaining nine months of year. None of the nagging sexual discontent I used to feel, because of either no sex or else bad sex with women I didn't really like. Contented but slightly bored is much better than discontented.
From what I can see, girl's primary goal right now is financial security (growing her internet business and buying real estate) rather than getting married or having children, which suggests she'll continue seeing me for at least several more years, if I want. At one time, I considered inviting her to spend a week or so with me outside Ukraine. But as noted above, I get bored seeing her more often than twice weekly and even then we have little to say to one another, so a full week together probably not a good idea. Probably not a good idea with any woman, in fact: I'm too used to being alone most of the time.
I'm now counting days for my trip to Kiev.
I do not have a specific plan. Mamba did not give me results yet even with subscription.
My special girl left Ukraine few months ago, I'm open to find new girl seeking help.
I'll be starting near the walking street near MC Donald.
Will see who will take a bite to my baits.
I'll try to give detail repot of actions and my thoughts.
If some one feels generous to share their contacts please do me a message. And no, I'm not cheap. I will "help" the girls generously.
PhotoSlider
08-24-19, 19:12
10 days ago. My 3rd girl in Kiev. Taking it slow this time, already 4 days in, after landing at KBP. 1 m 78 beauty (5 feet 10 for Forum members in US of A), no words exchanged on extras. The impregnable fortress eventually fell down, the holy of the holies has been made available for kisses and more, and the ultimate is about to happen).
I am reaching for "Made in USA" Trojan in my bed side drawer. She insists on using her own Contex. I smile. She says OK, and shows with her hands invitation to the ever so familiar rock paper scissors game. I win the first one. She says got to be three tries. I still win 2:1, put the Trojan on, fuck her proper and tender until we come together.
She is only 19, but her mind is of 27-28 years old. Smart ladies grow up fast in the Capital City. Very short skirt while arriving and departing, and never ending legs. Life is great.
It is only 9:15 pm in Kiev. I already had two great girls today. One of them will meet me outside of the confines of her agency in few days. Another one from the same source will come in tomorrow morning to collect 100% of the fee, instead of sharing with the agency, and another one arrives on the commuter train at 1 pm to stay for couple days. Life is great.
Hey MNP, I'll be in Kiev then. Hit me up, my schedule is pretty open.
Hello IST fellows,
I will visit Kiev for a week (9/7-9/14). Do you have any contacts or tips that you could share via PM? If you are also in Kiev, let's meet up for a drink. Thanks!
NightRider16
08-25-19, 10:03
10 days ago. My 3rd girl in Kiev. Taking it slow this time, already 4 days in, after landing at KBP. 1 m 78 beauty (5 feet 10 for Forum members in US of A), no words exchanged on extras. The impregnable fortress eventually fell down, the holy of the holies has been made available for kisses and more, and the ultimate is about to happen).
I am reaching for "Made in USA" Trojan in my bed side drawer. She insists on using her own Contex. I smile. She says OK, and shows with her hands invitation to the ever so familiar rock paper scissors game. I win the first one. She says got to be three tries. I still win 2:1, put the Trojan on, fuck her proper and tender until we come together.
She is only 19, but her mind is of 27-28 years old. Smart ladies grow up fast in the Capital City. Very short skirt while arriving and departing, and never ending legs. Life is great.
It is only 9:15 pm in Kiev. I already had two great girls today. One of them will meet me outside of the confines of her agency in few days. Another one from the same source will come in tomorrow morning to collect 100% of the fee, instead of sharing with the agency, and another one arrives on the commuter train at 1 pm to stay for couple days. Life is great.Could you provide the agency she is from? I normally use KEC but looking for other options. Thanks.
Returned from a business trip in Kiev, plenty of great fun and contacts from late twenties to early thirties, if interrested by contacts pm stating nationality and age.
[Commercial Message deleted by Admin]
EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted because it appeared to be a commercial message and/or it contained links to a commercial website. Please post reports consisting primarily of a commercial nature and/or reports with links to commercial websites in the Classified Advertisement section of the Forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines and the Forum's FAQ for further information.
How long did it take in Kiev before you realized the scene was mostly leftovers?
Always remember that all women between the age age of 20 and 30 are looking for a relationship that ends in marriage, hence v in summer they all go to cities where they increase their chances, . Odessa in ukraine, constanta mamaia in romania, varna in Bulgaria.
Very tough to compete with this goal, so always better wAit for early September when girls return to universities and need funding for it.
Summer time is to fullfill their goal of marriage!!Did they change plans this Summer.
Returned from a business trip in Kiev, plenty of great fun and contacts from late twenties to early thirties, if interrested by contacts pm stating nationality and age.PM sent! Thank you in advance!
Hi!
I will be in Kiev next week. Which clubs are better to visit? Friends advise Tootsi Club and Rio. What do you think? Thank you.
Friends advise Tootsi Club and Rio. What do you think? Thank you.It is pretty much the same. Both located in the same building, same owner, same system for a takeout.
NightRider16
08-28-19, 11:41
It is pretty much the same. Both located in the same building, same owner, same system for a takeout.Can you describe the process and cost for take out? I will be in Kiev week after next.
Can you describe the process and cost for take out? I will be in Kiev week after next.Entrance fee to the club is 500 hrn. You choose the girl you like and ask administrator to bring her to your table. If the girl just finished dancing, she will come to you for a few seconds and say Hi. After that she will leave, change clothes and come back in a few minutes. This is a great time to look at the girl, chat with her, build some rapport with her, see if she is the one you want to take out or you want to choose someone else. You can take her for a private dance or simply ask if she wants to go to your place with you. The cost is $300 for 3 hours, $500 for the night.
You will pay the girl either at your table or in the private room after the dance. After that she will leave you to get ready. Usually in about 10 minutes administrator will come to you and tell you that the girl is ready and you can go downstairs. You can order your own taxi or get one at the front door. Front door is a minimum of 200 hrn, doesn't matter where you go, could be 2 minutes drive, still 200.
CastOnThis
08-29-19, 14:51
Can you describe the process and cost for take out? I will be in Kiev week after next.Always ask if you can feel her pussy. If she let's you, she can be gold.
NightRider16
08-29-19, 17:21
Entrance fee to the club is 500 hrn. You choose the girl you like and ask administrator to bring her to your table. If the girl just finished dancing, she will come to you for a few seconds and say Hi. After that she will leave, change clothes and come back in a few minutes. This is a great time to look at the girl, chat with her, build some rapport with her, see if she is the one you want to take out or you want to choose someone else. You can take her for a private dance or simply ask if she wants to go to your place with you. The cost is $300 for 3 hours, $500 for the night.
You will pay the girl either at your table or in the private room after the dance. After that she will leave you to get ready. Usually in about 10 minutes administrator will come to you and tell you that the girl is ready and you can go downstairs. You can order your own taxi or get one at the front door. Front door is a minimum of 200 hrn, doesn't matter where you go, could be 2 minutes drive, still 200.Thank you for the very helpful and detailed response.
Quit complaining.
Not everyone has the same negative attitude towards Ukraine.
You constantly claim that people whom have had bad experiences never share but that's not the case. I see about 50/50 on both good and bad experiences. Probably more bad experiences than good since 1 out of every other 5 posts on here is of you constantly repeating the same thing over and over again. That Ukraine sucks and hot chicks apparently don't exist there. WE GET THE MESAAGE.
I have nothing personally against but geez give it a rest already.
For anyone that's coming from the States, Ukraine is awesome if you like blondes. I don't care what anyone says, it costs you 3 times plus here in the States for the kind of action you'the get over there even with the inflated prices complainers are constantly whinin about.
I don't partake in the scene anymore as I'm married now to a Ukrainian. She was one of the many girls I met during my time there. I met her on Tinder of all places and it was ended up being completely non-professional I've been plenty of times since but prior to meeting her I'the only been there twice for a week at a time. It's true that the less socially awkward you are and physically appealing he easier it is just like anywhere else in the world. Age tends to be less of a factor. Obviously better if you wear your age well. Tried out GIA and met so many others using various avenues. Okcupid, plenty of fish, tinder, and Facebook. Some pros and some not but I honestly never had a bad experience. Bottom line for me is that it' was way easier to meet women in Ukraine than it would be here in the States. That's both for mongering and just hanging out. I'm talking about blonde Slavic women, not Asian, not South American, or other ethnicities.I am seeking advise from Alekezam or anyone.
I love Slavic and Russian women, I think they are the most beautiful creatures on our planet, I don't understand anyone who will disagree. My questions, is reasonable to think that going to Kiev, you are more likely to get more bang for your dollar? In oppose. Mind you, being picky, and seeking true 8,9 and 10's, on recent trip, I have phone numbers for at least 3 girls I met in Germany, all nines, but want to meet more and play more.
I was looking at Rio and Tootsi, are they all girls you can pull out of the club and take them to your hotel room for the night? I don't want to say or suggest something and end up having trouble with the bouncers. I don't want any issues or confrontations.
What nightclubs currently have working girls in them? I was wondering about Shooters, the-Lux, Arena, Avalon and Buddha Bar? Would these be the best ones to go to? How would you approach them and what do you say? Do you have advice on how to tell if she is working or not?
Sorry for all the questions. I am new to this and trying to have the best time possible I can. Thanks.
Entrance fee to the club is 500 hrn. You choose the girl you like and ask administrator to bring her to your table. If the girl just finished dancing, she will come to you for a few seconds and say Hi. After that she will leave, change clothes and come back in a few minutes. This is a great time to look at the girl, chat with her, build some rapport with her, see if she is the one you want to take out or you want to choose someone else. You can take her for a private dance or simply ask if she wants to go to your place with you. The cost is $300 for 3 hours, $500 for the night.If you want to pay $300 for 3 hours make sure to let her know its for 3 hours, girls want to return to the club as soon as they can for another take out to make more money, also let her know what you want from her before paying her like bare back blowjob, etc.
CastOnThis
08-30-19, 17:21
I was looking at Rio and Tootsi, are they all girls you can pull out of the club and take them to your hotel room for the night? I don't want to say or suggest something and end up having trouble with the bouncers. I don't want any issues or confrontations.Do you not read reviews on google about these strip clubs? Literally, you will have trouble with bouncers and the girls. Why? Because they are literally all run by the same criminal group. So the format is the same. I suggest you go in and take a brief look at the girls. See any you like then stay and see what happens. But if you don't like any. Move on. And whatever you do do not take a taxi for brothels. Such silliness when they see you and know you are a foreigner.
I was looking at Rio and Tootsi, are they all girls you can pull out of the club and take them to your hotel room for the night? I don't want to say or suggest something and end up having trouble with the bouncers. I don't want any issues or confrontations.
What nightclubs currently have working girls in them? I was wondering about Shooters, the-Lux, Arena, Avalon and Buddha Bar? Would these be the best ones to go to? How would you approach them and what do you say? Do you have advice on how to tell if she is working or not?
Sorry for all the questions. I am new to this and trying to have the best time possible I can. Thanks.I visited rio once last yr on a Thursday or Friday around 10:30 pm, there were only about 10-15 people there, not a single good looking dancer, downstairs stage was closed, upstairs stage where the bar is was closed too, a few yrs ago there were more people there and much better looking dancers.
There was an escort site called http://amour-russe.net/ in Paris, nearly all escorts there were russian and ukrainian girls, almost every week they were bringing new girls, most of them were so good looking and would work for like 5-10 days there, their quality of escorts was soooo much better then the average girls on KEC now, most girls had short videos on the site, too bad they were busted, I really think you guys should start looking for russian / ukrainian escorts sites outside of ukraine, too many good looking girls have already left ukraine and are working abroad.
the quality of girls on gia/KEC is now lower but their prices are higher, some the girls KEC charges at least 200/hr on KEC probably worked/still working in apartments charging 1500 to 2000 grivna per hr
Thank you for the very helpful and detailed response.You are welcome.
I was looking at Rio and Tootsi, are they all girls you can pull out of the club and take them to your hotel room for the night? I don't want to say or suggest something and end up having trouble with the bouncers. I don't want any issues or confrontations.All girls there are working, however, there are some situations when you can get a "I am only dancing" reply. It rarely happens, but it is a possibility. Maybe the girl already went out and feeling tired, maybe she is having a bad day. If that happens, just go ahead and choose another one.
Bouncers are all part of the business run by the club. Not only there won't be issues, but they will even help you if you need any assistance. If it is raining, bouncer will have an umbrella for you, if the girl is not there yet and you are waiting outside, they will find out when your dancer is coming etc.
NightRider16
08-31-19, 10:40
All girls there are working, however, there are some situations when you can get a "I am only dancing" reply. It rarely happens, but it is a possibility. Maybe the girl already went out and feeling tired, maybe she is having a bad day. If that happens, just go ahead and choose another one.
Bouncers are all part of the business run by the club. Not only there won't be issues, but they will even help you if you need any assistance. If it is raining, bouncer will have an umbrella for you, if the girl is not there yet and you are waiting outside, they will find out when your dancer is coming etc.It is really interesting the different perspectives on Rio; some responses go as far as saying bouncers will assist with umbrellas and others say they are rude and not very helpful! I can't wait to get there next week and see for myself; I will post a report and add to this discussion!
Member #4722
08-31-19, 23:40
It is really interesting the different perspectives on Rio; some responses go as far as saying bouncers will assist with umbrellas and others say they are rude and not very helpful! I can't wait to get there next week and see for myself; I will post a report and add to this discussion!I have found the bouncers / managers there to be very cool. One escorted me down the street to ATM. Only taken two girls from there both hot, one was amazing one was a dud sent her away after 45 minutes.
Both clubs are owned by the same person I believe. Tootsie looks really nice in there I like the light poles. The lady I saw at Tootsie worked at Rio the next day. I wonder if the ladies work both clubs that same day or switch clubs every other day. I was told you can go to both clubs but you have to pay for both and you can go between each clubs but I didn't try it out. I did a sauna and had a great time I did Wild West. 1700 Ukraine for 1 hour and cost more depend on what you want on menu.
Anyone been to this club recently?
I did ask my long-term UA Wing woman to check it out for me as I am not in Kiev at present, so she went there with her GF but was told, it's 2000 UAH entry for both, security wasn't very welcoming, so she didn't proceed with the inspection.
This place was a Cafe, Asian Restaurant at the time back in the years when I used to Speed Interview Girls there whenever I stayed at Khreschatyk Hotel.
It is really interesting the different perspectives on Rio; some responses go as far as saying bouncers will assist with umbrellas and others say they are rude and not very helpful! I can't wait to get there next week and see for myself; I will post a report and add to this discussion!I went there half a dozen times in two years, They were never rude. It also helps that I am a friendly guy myself. The rich locals ignore them and act like they don't exist. Me as a tourist, I chat them up. Example, while waiting for my girl to get ready. But regardless, over all they are a non issue.
Regarding girls. Around 11 PM is a good time to go.
NightRider16
09-01-19, 19:42
I went there half a dozen times in two years, They were never rude. It also helps that I am a friendly guy myself. The rich locals ignore them and act like they don't exist. Me as a tourist, I chat them up. Example, while waiting for my girl to get ready. But regardless, over all they are a non issue.
Regarding girls. Around 11 PM is a good time to go.Thanks! I'm feeling a lot better about my trip now. This board is a great resource.
Anyone been to this club recently?
I did ask my long-term UA Wing woman to check it out for me as I am not in Kiev at present, so she went there with her GF but was told, it's 2000 UAH entry for both, security wasn't very welcoming, so she didn't proceed with the inspection.
This place was a Cafe, Asian Restaurant at the time back in the years when I used to Speed Interview Girls there whenever I stayed at Khreschatyk Hotel.Apologies for the typo. Princess Strip Club not Process.
All girls there are working, however, there are some situations when you can get a "I am only dancing" reply. It rarely happens, but it is a possibility. Maybe the girl already went out and feeling tired, maybe she is having a bad day.It happens all the time for various reasons like lack of language or just not liking you. Kiev stripclubs are a ripoff that will lead to disappointment.
I went there half a dozen times in two years, And you never bothered to share a field report here. I guess you were keeping it a secret.
They were never rude. It also helps that I am a friendly guy myself. The rich locals ignore them and act like they don't exist. Me as a tourist, I chat them up. Example, while waiting for my girl to get ready. But regardless, over all they are a non issue.Limit all contact with other men when it comes to mongering unless he is a pimp. There's a reason why locals ignore the bouncers and you should too.
Mexican Lover
09-01-19, 22:40
Great and informative post with good analysis. I remember that secretary post earlier. That can be good strategy.
Can you suggest good marriage site that you talked about?
Any suggestions where to find semi-pros?
Also for apartment girls, any addresses or websites?
SumerFreaks
09-02-19, 04:35
Great and informative post with good analysis. I remember that secretary post earlier. That can be good strategy.
Can you suggest good marriage site that you talked about?
Any suggestions where to find semi-pros?
Also for apartment girls, any addresses or websites?Marriage websites. Ukrainedate.
Riina, I hope you are joking but in case you are not, I post after every visit. (you will see previous detailed reports of Rio from me). As a matter of fact, I am an avid reporter of my trips. Of course if I go to Rio twice in week, I may not make two posts. Also, writing repeatedly about the same club is a waste of everyone's time.
Re the advice about not speaking to the bouncers inside the club. I find it useful in my own way. People do what works for them. Even a nice smile, short chat and a decent tip at the coat check goes a long way for me. I am just sharing what I do and I am not preaching. Have fun.
I will be there soon to have some fun.
And you never bothered to share a field report here. I guess you were keeping it a secret.
Limit all contact with other men when it comes to mongering unless he is a pimp. There's a reason why locals ignore the bouncers and you should too.
DramaFree11
09-02-19, 17:58
Marriage websites. Ukrainedate.Sorry, these sites are complete Scam. My Ex owned a site and a good friend of mine managed a major site in Kiev. You are basically paying to meet a girl, with zero guarantee of sex. They may ask for expensive taxi rides, want you to pay for an translator, take you to expensive restaurant. She will get a cut from all of these services. It can get expensive very fast.
I am not sure why this is never brought up on this page, but it is a major issue.
If you go to Work dot UA, you will see a hundred ads looking for girls to be writers for marriage websites. They pay the girls to write men and to never meet them. Just string you along until you get tired of having spent $2500 to chat with a girl for two months. I hope everyone on this board is smarter than that.
DeepakPateluk
09-03-19, 07:42
Hi guys,
I am going to Kiev next month and wondering where would be the easiest to pick up semi pro's (students and workers looking for extra cash) and what is the going rate in Kiev, don't want to be ripped off and at the same time don't want to lose out thinking they are trying to rip me off.
I get the feeling 100 us dollars 1-2 is the going rate.
Thanks.
Sorry, these sites are complete Scam. My Ex owned a site and a good friend of mine managed a major site in Kiev. You are basically paying to meet a girl, with zero guarantee of sex. They may ask for expensive taxi rides, want you to pay for an translator, take you to expensive restaurant. She will get a cut from all of these services. It can get expensive very fast.
I am not sure why this is never brought up on this page, but it is a major issue.My experience of L a few years back ended in a credit refund after my complaints.
I corresponded on the well presented site with a Prospect and after many paid messages I qualified for her contact email address.
At that point I hit a brick wall and was unable to get further responses. A waste of my time.
You just have to regard this as a fantasy exercise. Exciting at times but ultimately. "the rest is silence".
Anybody ever have any experience with dating sites like Mamba Tinder the girl's photo has a WhatsApp number with it? Sometimes you'll get a response on WhatsApp of a few girls pics with more than one price. Text say's 2000 UAH - 4000 UAH. Some girls are VIP's, obviously an in agency. Anybody use this? Any luck? Send girl in pic?
Some are photos taken by the girl in a mirror (The manner of pic's I prefer) they don't mention any UAH but only want you to text only when in Kiev.
Some mention money say's they are independent. Let me know please I have gotten lots of responses.
DramaFree11
09-03-19, 20:43
My experience of L a few years back ended in a credit refund after my complaints.
I corresponded on the well presented site with a Prospect and after many paid messages I qualified for her contact email address.
At that point I hit a brick wall and was unable to get further responses. A waste of my time.
You just have to regard this as a fantasy exercise. Exciting at times but ultimately. "the rest is silence".Sounds like you got lucky, there are 1000's guys that have lost big money dealing with these sites. Another thing that is never talked is girls are paid to write letters. They can make a decent living at this.
Anybody ever have any experience with dating sites like Mamba Tinder the girl's photo has a WhatsApp number with it? Sometimes you'll get a response on WhatsApp of a few girls pics with more than one price. Text say's 2000 UAH - 4000 UAH. Some girls are VIP's, obviously an in agency. Anybody use this? Any luck? Send girl in pic?
Some are photos taken by the girl in a mirror (The manner of pic's I prefer) they don't mention any UAH but only want you to text only when in Kiev.
Some mention money say's they are independent. Let me know please I have gotten lots of responses.Yes, met 2 girls on mamba last time I was in Kiev, problem is it took too much of my time to search mamba, was it worth my time? NO.
Didn't try tinder, mamba has more profiles than badoo.
If you go to Work dot UA, you will see a hundred ads looking for girls to be writers for marriage websites. They pay the girls to write men and to never meet them. Just string you along until you get tired of having spent $2500 to chat with a girl for two months. I hope everyone on this board is smarter than that.Yes, hired to write BS letters, there was an app before called findface, used it to find the girls profiles on VK from their photos on marriage sites, it was best to communicate with them directly, some didn't even know their photos were on marriage sites and had profiles there.
This turned out to be pretty interesting experience for me.
First of all, I went into this appointment with zero expectation. I had no intention to give these girls any upper hand by behaving as they expect from horny foreigner.
A night before, I called the agency that PhotoSlider provided me an year ago, I told them all the things as instructed by PhotoSlider to make them understand that I send away non attractive girls.
Had a girl called Anastisia. She seemed pretty young, but not shy at all. After 15 minutes of causal talk, she started undressing herself, which is kind of boring (turn off) for me. I don't seek fun in plain act, have done that like a million times and want to have some game added into this hobby (of course not in a psycho way or the way in which the girl won't enjoy). Had nice sex, and blah blah blah, lots of them talked about this a lot, so moving on.
Showaround girl (Anne). The moment I talked to her, I understood that she has met a lot of horny foreigners who made silly moves on her. Well, I was completely satisfied and had no sure intentions to get in between her legs, but I liked the challenge of seducing her. Had been to many restaurants and later in the bars tasting food and I was having whisky and she was taking it slow with alcohol. After an hour or two, she totally understood that I am not intending to sleep with her and in the third hour, I told her straight that "I do not want to sleep with you, do not worry, just be at ease and show me what you know about this city at night". She had all her guards down, Was totally a different person. I do not remember all the places she took me, most of the bars were in the basement but were full of life. Something me or any other tourist would never be able to explore by yourself. In the end, she slept in my apartment (no sex involved, yeah, that won't make me any less masculine). But just before leaving, she kissed me out of the context, and said bye and left. I do have her number, this is going to be very interesting. And yes, I am not a fool to marry her or anyone infact. This was good experience I was seeking. The jonny in between the legs could be satisfied in many ways, so I googled "erotic massage parlour near me" and went to the closest one and let the masseuse jerk me off emotionlessly.
I can see if some of you think that this was stupid. Well if you do, you do not understand my hobby completely. Play safe and have fun in Kiev. I will be here two almost two more weeks, so there is some more fun to explore.
SloPhoto1990
09-04-19, 16:56
I will probably go to Kiev and because I never been there I have some questions. And I believe some of those questions should be some sticky post with answers in every country or city thread. I tried googling and reading this forum a lot, but I did not find answers or full answers to that. I would really appreciate if someone can do a bit of explaining to me.
I travel time to time, but so far I only visited girls in Barcelona. I tried apartment brothels and independent girls there. But I have no idea how does it compare to Kiev.
I am sure that some questions might be tagged with a total newbie category, but this is what I am, because out of Barcelona I did not try this and I am pretty sure that things get very different in other countries.
1. What websites should be my basic starting point to search for girls with reliable photos? On google I found several websites and I am pretty sure there are maybe one or two I should stick to and forget about others.
2. I noticed that most girls have price for 1 hour. Does this mean there is no 30 min or I simply have to ask?
3. Definitely everyone has own taste, but I also noticed that some pretty girls post cheap price, compared to some not so pretty girl with double prices. What is approximate price those times for 1 hour with a young and pretty girl? Are prices negotiable or should I not even try for short amount of time? I guess that for few hours or a day I can do a bit of negotiating?
4. Does 1 hour mean paying for time with unlimited sex or cums, or is it for 2?
5. Are things kissing, CIM, BBBJ, Anal included in price or considered extra?
6. Price for threesome is paying 2 x hourly price or is it discounted a bit or expected to add some extra money? Does threesome in Kiev means just that I have sex with them both or they also do lesbian stuff?
7. Where I should look for some group sex, orgies, sex parties?
8. Are hotels and hostels generally friendly about taking a girl over or should I rather go for airbnb?
9. As I do not speak Russian or Ukrainian, how far does English get me? Is it fine to just text girls on Whatsapp and using google translator? In general do a lot of girls use whatsapp?
10. Are there any safety concerns?
11. How is the attitude of the girls in general?
1. What websites should be my basic starting point to search for girls with reliable photos? On google I found several websites and I am pretty sure there are maybe one or two I should stick to and forget about others.
2. I noticed that most girls have price for 1 hour. Does this mean there is no 30 min or I simply have to ask?
3. What is approximate price those times for 1 hour with a young and pretty girl? Are prices negotiable or should I not even try for short amount of time? I guess that for few hours or a day I can do a bit of negotiating?
4. Does 1 hour mean paying for time with unlimited sex or cums, or is it for 2?
5. Are things kissing, CIM, BBBJ, Anal included in price or considered extra?There are certainly FAR more knowledgeable people than me to answer your questions, but I'll give it a try.
First off, this may be called the sex Industry, but it is still a very, very personal service and not a commodity you are asking about so there may be 20% of facts and 80% of „it depends on you and the girl". Fine to ask for a good price, but don't try to squeeze out the last cent of an already cheap price. - Neither you nor the girl will enjoy it at the end.
Let my try anyway to help.
1. There are no 100% sure bets. Pics on Kiev Escort Club are retouched but at least seem real. All the rest I've seen (relaxkiev etc) seems very much hit and miss. The only dating site I have experience with is Mamba, and pictures seem often real but of course not all. In general, girls with a single Photo-Model like picture (or a set of pictures all in high quality and in the same environment) are often fake and easy to catch with image search / tin-eye etc.
2. -4. No experience with 1 h. From what I read: 1 h is often, up to 1st shot", and that's it.
5. Also just from limited experience, mainly on Mamba: BBBJ is not hard to find but often standard for escort sites. CIM is less frequently offered.
6. Very obviously depends on the girls you choose. Enjoy the cheap price and stop thinking about saving a few dollars more.
7. Also not my specialty. Sorry. Mamba has „orgies" as a criteria, so you could try to ask one of the girls who has this in her profile, but you'the definitely need a good local contact.
8. I recommend airbnb.
9. I find the language barrier to be a big issue so far. Especially for longer meetings, „English only" either restricts your choices to less than half, or you will have less fun because communication is difficult.
10. Kiev feels as save as other big cities, despite the high share of people with a very low income. I find that people are mostly very friendly.
This turned out to be pretty interesting experience for me.
First of all, I went into this appointment with zero expectation. I had no intention to give these girls any upper hand by behaving as they expect from horny foreigner.
A night before, I called the agency that PhotoSlider provided me an year ago, I told them all the things as instructed by PhotoSlider to make them understand that I send away non attractive girls.
Had a girl called Anastisia. She seemed pretty young, but not shy at all. After 15 minutes of causal talk, she started undressing herself, which is kind of boring (turn off) for me. I don't seek fun in plain act, have done that like a million times and want to have some game added into this hobby (of course not in a psycho way or the way in which the girl won't enjoy). Had nice sex, and blah blah blah, lots of them talked about this a lot, so moving on.I could understand your game. I like that too. Don't getting rushed into bang bang. Rather play it slow. I will visit Kiev beginning October too.
PhotoSlider
09-05-19, 09:06
...Re the advice about not speaking to the bouncers inside the club. I find it useful in my own way. People do what works for them. Even a nice smile, short chat and a decent tip at the coat check goes a long way for me. I am just sharing what I do and I am not preaching...Rio bouncers are a little more reserved due to line of business they are in. At Avalon I treat waiters and bouncers as human beings, and they helped me more than once in anything from finding a good tailor for minor dress short repair before going to Theater, to simply greeting me with sincere respect when I walk in with a new lady at my hand. I certainly do not walk by passing them as a piece of furniture. No need to assert me that way. I wouldn't say it changes anything radically, but it doesn't hurt. Waiters do not try to offer the most expensive meal, and hostesses at the roof top terrace always find a table, even without extra cash slipped in their hand on Friday night when the venue is full.
To each his own. Avalon staff will not be offended, and will provide excellent service in the background, when guests are busy and ignore them. They are trained not to intrude when privacy is required during conversation or more intimate things with a lady, like a tender or even more passionate kiss. I didn't see going for more there. Upper 7th floor terrace has gazebo tents with curtains for even more protection from unwanted curiosity. I never paid for those, and ladies love staying inside when the night is pleasant and romance is in the air.
SloPhoto1990
09-05-19, 15:42
There are certainly FAR more knowledgeable people than me to answer your questions, but I'll give it a try.
First off, this may be called the sex Industry, but it is still a very, very personal service and not a commodity you are asking about so there may be 20% of facts and 80% of it depends on you and the girl". Fine to ask for a good price, but don't try to squeeze out the last cent of an already cheap price. - Neither you nor the girl will enjoy it at the end.
Let my try anyway to help.
1. There are no 100% sure bets. Pics on Kiev Escort Club are retouched but at least seem real. All the rest I've seen (relaxkiev etc) seems very much hit and miss. The only dating site I have experience with is Mamba, and pictures seem often real but of course not all. In general, girls with a single Photo-Model like picture (or a set of pictures all in high quality and in the same environment) are often fake and easy to catch with image search / tin-eye etc..Thanks man, don't even worry for not being knowledgeable enough or something. Every advice counts, especially because we all get different experiences with same or different girls.
Here's what I have found so far on my recent trip, this week:
A. I tried "Shooters on Wednesday night". Number of working ladies present: zero or near zero. Every girl there was either dancing with other girls, or an age appropriate guy. Nobody gave me any positive signals, and there had to be 20 older guys like me, all standing around with our thumbs up our asses. Disappointing.
Be. I have been to Paradise Cabaret. Ultimate rip-off. 700 UAH just to enter. I sit down, check out their menu. What sounds like a regular lap dance, for "7-9 minutes", is 60 fucking dollars. That would be a ripoff price in the USA, who do they expect to pay this? Some hot stripper hit the stage, I asked to meet her, she sat with me. She kept pushing me to buy something to eat or drink together. 3300 UAH, or $130 for a meal or about the same for some wine. These are marginal prices even in the USA, who the fuck pays for services at this club?
See. I have been to Rio. Rip-off but not quite as bad. A lap dance is pretty long, seems to be a couple songs, and about $40 US. And it's inside a complete private room and I assume stick shifting and other activities are available. Still not very dollar efficient, and I messaged a girl asking what the rate was, and she quotes me $300 USA For an hour. Again, this is the same price you'd get in most cities in the USA.
The. In Arena City there's a basement strip club. It's not Men's club, think it was Harem. I went there, tried out the $80 "erotic massage with open legs". It's not what it sounds like, the girl I picked refused to touch my penis but said I could jerk off if I wanted. But for another $200, I was able to bring her back to my apartment for sex. She just kinda lay on the bed like a dead fish with a really loose vagina, however.
E. I haven't tried Sky Bar yet, it's only open Friday and Saturday, but I intend to. Will report back.
F. In Arena City, near the entrance, after about midnight, there are brothel touts. I found one last night who took me around to the "secret" apartment brothels.
1. Brothel 1, it's 2100 UAH and I've been there at least 10 times. Girls are lined up in bra and panties, so you can clearly see who has the best body, and many of the girls are adventurous. Usually the activities are covered but a bare stripper slide is pretty common.
2. Brothel 2 is in the same building as brothel 1, just on the 3rd floor. 4000 UAH, I checked out the girls. Hot but not obviously hotter than brothel 1.
3. Brothel 3 is in an adjacent building. 2600 UAH, but these girls actually seemed lower quality than Brothel 1.
4. Brothel 4 is right across the street from Gullivers. 2100 UAH and I had a girl there last night who looks exactly like a model playing an airline flight attendant. Miniskirt, tall, legs for days, skinny enough her ribs are showing. Basically my preferred body type. She was sweet though not as adventurous as many of the brothel 1 girls.
Conclusion: the apartment prices seem to be the "real" prices, everything else is a ripoff. Some of the girls I have seen in these places and fucked for $85 would be the kind that ask for more than $1000 a session as escorts.
One more avenue I am looking into: I suspect finding a part-time mistress through a website like SA or others might be fruitful. I have done this in the USA, and always convinced the girl to go bareback eventually. (might be a good idea to get her and me both instant HIV tested first here, of course).
Or find a young college student on mamba or somewhere similar. This would mean a lot better sex and probably some overnights, for a cost to my wallet similar to going to the apartment brothels.
HobbyMan6969
09-06-19, 07:04
Hi,
I have visited Kiev last year (Sep 2018) and I'll go over my mongering game plan at that time.
I was there for 1 week Thursday to Wednesday of the following week. My goal was to try out my normal game and if all else fails.
I would pick up some hookers. I'm over 40, however; I look like I'm late 20's to early 30's. I stayed at a hotel in arena city.
1. I went to Caribbean club on Thursday and talked to 4 girls total that weren't hookers and bought drinks and tried to mingle.
They had good English, seemed a bit older. Maybe late 20's to early 30's. They all seemed to enjoy the drinks and wonder off after talking for a bit.
The 2 girls that caught my eye were a tall blonde and a shorter blonde. I talked to the tall blonde first and right away she said lets go back to your place. I was horny.
From my flight so I decided hey let me try out a Slavic girl. Bring her back to my hotel and do the dirty deed. I think the fee was 2500 uah. I didn't know the going rate at the time so.
I was happy to pay the fee. She got really wet fucking me. However, I was so drunk I didn't cum. She leaves after an hour. I'm still horny and take a quick shower.
And head back to Caribbean club. I pretty much gave up talking to any "normal girl" at that time and decided to pickup another hooker. I found a skinny brunette standing by herself and introduce myself and ask if she would like to have a drink.
With me. She drinks for a bit and has small talk and asks if I want to have a cigarette with her outside. We talk outside and she immediately asks if she can come back to my hotel for a fee. I say sure and we head back to my hotel. I notice her.
Clothes look dingy and didn't pick it up at the time we were inside the club. When she took her clothes off she smelled like bad bo. I told her take a shower and she did. However, she still smelled bad. I should have turned her away but I was horny and banged her anyways.
She said she wanted to see me the next day for no money. I got her number and never called her. I fall asleep afterwords. Over the weekend I tried scarlette and Rio strip clubs. I remember Rio had some girls I liked, however; I didn't like the vibe and left for scarlette. At scarlette I got some dances from some hot girls, I asked during the dances if they wanted to go back to my hotel. They said no and I was kinda pissed as they seem like they couldn't be bought. I go back to my hotel which has skybar at the top of hotel. Skybar face controlled me and said no with an angry voice. I was dressed in a blazer and 2 girls that tried to get in before me were face controlled as well. I kept hearing skybar wasn't supposed to be open until months later. However, I heard music and wanted to get in. The rest of my trip I met people from couchsurfing to show me around the area and didn't do much mongering like I should. One girl bought me multiple beers, however, kept mentioning she had a boyfriend so I didn't press the issue. Really sweet girl I would like to have had the opportunity to date. Around arena city by the kebab store some people tried to show me around some brothels. I went on 2 visits and they didn't have many girls, the girls I seen were a little overweight for my tastes. I said no, however; the guides were really nice. I bought them a coffee. My last 2 days I met a girl from couchsurfing and we went to a karaoke bar that I can't remember the name of. She and I hit it off and fucked at my place for free for the next 2 days. She kept insisting I stay in Kiev longer. I had a trip to Lithuania for another week before I headed off to the states. I said goodbye to her and she and I kept in touch.
Well fast forward to Sep 2019 I have booked a trip back to Kiev. I have 10 straight days there.
My game plan this time is to do more day gaming on girls to try to get dates where I can fuck for free. My fallback plan is I will end the night with some hookers and possibly get some pregame going on with escorts.
Then go out with my dates.
So, I tried Caribbean club last time. My observation was.
1. lots of older women, some hookers. However, not a lot to brag about to want to bring back.
I want to try these nightclubs.
1. Dfleur=.
2. Shooters=.
3. OK bar=.
4. Byblos=.
5. serebro=.
6. Forsage=.
Some bars I would like to go to, however; I hear you have to know more russian to get by.
1. Pink freud.
2. sorry babushka.
Again day gaming girls for dates (not letting them know I will only be in town 10 days) to try to get free sex is priority. Trying some night game to get ONS or dates.
Backup plan is hookers / escorts. I'm into tall athletic girls to petite girls, I have a preference for blondes.
I might try Rio stripclub again probably last 2 days if all else fails as I can actually see what they look like. Is there any other better strip clubs in Kiev? The bait and switch escort sites I keep reading on here turn me off as.
I don't want to waste time on fatties arriving at my airbnb.
Let me know about these bars / nightclubs for the past 2-3 months. Which ones are good on the weekend, which ones are good to go to on the weekdays.
Has anyone tried Seeking Arrangement in Kiev? I checked, there's a large number of girls (several hundred), and the fee seems to be still $90, which creates a barrier to entry. I don't have enough days remaining on this trip to invest that much, but I have noticed a huge response rate. (you get a certain number of free messages with a free account). Much higher than SA in the USA. And there's no need to filter by body type. I haven't seen a fat girl on SA yet, and girls that consider themselves "average" are still skinny by USA standards.
It looks promising. Of course, one problem is that girls on this site may have unrealistic expectations, wanting USA level compensation, which would be stupid to offer them.
Hey MNP, I'll be in Kiev then. Hit me up, my schedule is pretty open.Nice, how do I contact you? It doesn't look like you can receive PM here.
I am a silent reader and follower of the Ukraine forum, I believe Ukrainian girls are the best looking girls in the world and there is no match. Stand by the McDonalds at Khreshatyk street and one can see pure drop dead gorgeous by the second. Some of them are amazing in bed while others are just plain dead fish more of the latter. When there is so much beauty there comes a negative side too. I find them lazy and they do not wish to work and rely on their looks, nothing wrong in there but most if not all want to make quick buck through scams / cheating. I have banged various chicks from multiple cities of Ukraine like Kiev, Kirovograd, Sumy. Kharkiv is a nice university area but almost all are involved in scams. Just see the below and one can understand what I am trying to say. Just be careful with Ukrainian chicks when dealing with $$ keep banging and make them scream in bed. Stay safe.
Matches my point of view to the dot. Well said.
Rio bouncers are a little more reserved due to line of business they are in. At Avalon I treat waiters and bouncers as human beings, and they helped me more than once in anything from finding a good tailor for minor dress short repair before going to Theater, to simply greeting me with sincere respect when I walk in with a new lady at my hand. I certainly do not walk by passing them as a piece of furniture. No need to assert me that way. I wouldn't say it changes anything radically, but it doesn't hurt. Waiters do not try to offer the most expensive meal, and hostesses at the roof top terrace always find a table, even without extra cash slipped in their hand on Friday night when the venue is full.
To each his own. Avalon staff will not be offended, and will provide excellent service in the background, when guests are busy and ignore them. They are trained not to intrude when privacy is required during conversation or more intimate things with a lady, like a tender or even more passionate kiss. I didn't see going for more there. Upper 7th floor terrace has gazebo tents with curtains for even more protection from unwanted curiosity. I never paid for those, and ladies love staying inside when the night is pleasant and romance is in the air.
Has anyone tried Seeking Arrangement in Kiev? I checked, there's a large number of girls (several hundred), and the fee seems to be still $90, which creates a barrier to entry. I don't have enough days remaining on this trip to invest that much, but I have noticed a huge response rate. (you get a certain number of free messages with a free account). Much higher than SA in the USA. And there's no need to filter by body type. I haven't seen a fat girl on SA yet, and girls that consider themselves "average" are still skinny by USA standards.
It looks promising. Of course, one problem is that girls on this site may have unrealistic expectations, wanting USA level compensation, which would be stupid to offer them.Tried SA on my last trip. Not worth it.
The charges are hilarious, and service would be very restricted.
Out of 3 girls I met, only one was worth the effort and cost.
SloPhoto1990
09-07-19, 16:24
I am a silent reader and follower of the Ukraine forum, I believe Ukrainian girls are the best looking girls in the world and there is no match. Stand by the McDonalds at Khreshatyk street and one can see pure drop dead gorgeous by the second. Some of them are amazing in bed while others are just plain dead fish more of the latter. When there is so much beauty there comes a negative side too. I find them lazy and they do not wish to work and rely on their looks, nothing wrong in there but most if not all want to make quick buck through scams / cheating. I have banged various chicks from multiple cities of Ukraine like Kiev, Kirovograd, Sumy. Kharkiv is a nice university area but almost all are involved in scams. Just see the below and one can understand what I am trying to say. Just be careful with Ukrainian chicks when dealing with $$ keep banging and make them scream in bed. Stay safe.Can you please expand on that last sentence. I am visiting Kiev for some fun with girls soon and safety is one of the questions I have about that.
Hi,.
Backup plan is hookers / escorts. I'm into tall athletic girls to petite girls, I have a preference for blondes.
I might try Rio stripclub again probably last 2 days if all else fails as I can actually see what they look like. Is there any other better strip clubs in Kiev? The bait and switch escort sites I keep reading on here turn me off as.
I don't want to waste time on fatties arriving at my airbnb.So far I have found the "secret" apartment brothels are by far the best value. (short of setting up a long term relationship with an independent) There is no risk of the fatties, because you can see the girls in the line up (and just leave if none of them fit your taste, I have left quite a few lineups). The way to find them is to either PM me and I can give you the addresses, or just go to Arena city, and find Alexi or one of the other brothel touts. Super easy to find, literally just walk in there through the entry way and touts will ask if you want to see the girls.
There is a brothel in arena city itself. It sucks, don't go there, but there's more apartments outside.
Has anyone tried Seeking Arrangement in Kiev?
It looks promising. Of course, one problem is that girls on this site may have unrealistic expectations, wanting USA level compensation, which would be stupid to offer them.Similar experience here. I also just have a free account and will not pay a (recurring) $90 per month, because I do not find that to be a realistic price. So I've never met a girl from SA.
So much money for a subscription could be used just to hire some ghost writers. Who knows. I just find the number of profiles in perfect English quite high.
The good thing for tourists and expats is that profiles are in English and expectations are usually well laid out. I think that you need to be very (extremely) rich to play in that league, and that alone can attract some dodgy behavior on the other side. Maybe a case of no risk, no fun", bit my advice is to be mindful of that.
Hello all,
A bit late maybe, but as I always do I try to make a brief report of my travels.
A) Streetwalkers:
To be found after passing the "Victory Avenue" once you past the Shevchenko blvd near the zoo.
Not too many and of varied quality and price (400-500 UAH/hour). best days on weekends around midnight. If interested just ask a taxi driver.
B) Riverpalace:.This board ISG is such an excellent Source of info and also a great resource to Jog memories to exercise the Mind.
At the time more than 10 Years ago, it Was Salons and More Salons, as referred to above in the excellent report of Distinction, Now it's " Apartments or Secret Apartments ".
I am also going to be in Kiev again this second week of Sept. In previous visit this year I have been the places you mention Caribbean, Rio and a few others such Dolls, Princess as well as other hip bars / clubs and lounges such as Queens for example. I confirm similar experiences & views to what you report. My profile also similar to yours in age and tastes. Now that you have previous experience your second visit plan looks good and can give more results. PM for more comments and / or exchanging tips.
Hi,
I have visited Kiev last year (Sep 2018) and I'll go over my mongering game plan at that time.
I was there for 1 week Thursday to Wednesday of the following week. My goal was to try out my normal game and if all else fails.
I would pick up some hookers. I'm over 40, however; I look like I'm late 20's to early 30's. I stayed at a hotel in arena city.
1. I went to Caribbean club on Thursday and talked to 4 girls total that weren't hookers and bought drinks and tried to mingle..
Hi guys,
Planning to trip to Kiev with 4 of my guy friends for partying and mongering. Good I read this forum. It kinda looks dry? Is that true? Any other cities / countries you can recommend. Warsaw, Baku, tel Aviv?
We are basically looking for chilling during the day (some adventure activities, nice lunches) and then partying at night at some clubs. Then hopefully getting some girls back to our apartment (paid of course) 3-4 of them and then having a small party and banging. If we can get some working girls at the clubs tom.
Party with us it would be awesome and some good strip clubs but would be a bonus. We have to finalize in the next week. Your contributions will be very helpful. Cheers guys thanks.
Who pays for those prices? Unsuspecting tourists that forgot how to think with the right head. You got severely scammed. Your 66000 UAH could have bought you 3 sessions with your flight attendant at "brothel number 4". Still, I would suggest to use semi-pros, girls whose regular job is something else. They are more appreciative of good sex and they know the value of money. I prefer it when I am the only person they have had sex that day. Of course, on never knows, but with pros, you definitely know that some guy was there as little as one hour ago.
Here's what I have found so far on my recent trip, this week:
......
Be. I have been to Paradise Cabaret. Ultimate rip-off. 700 UAH just to enter. I sit down, check out their menu. What sounds like a regular lap dance, for "7-9 minutes", is 60 fucking dollars. That would be a ripoff price in the USA, who do they expect to pay this? Some hot stripper hit the stage, I asked to meet her, she sat with me. She kept pushing me to buy something to eat or drink together. 3300 UAH, or $130 for a meal or about the same for some wine. These are marginal prices even in the USA, who the fuck pays for services at this club?.
Hi,
I have visited Kiev last year (Sep 2018) and I'll go over my mongering game plan at that time.
I was there for 1 week Thursday to Wednesday of the following week. My goal was to try out my normal game and if all else fails.
I would pick up some hookers. I'm over 40, however; I look like I'm late 20's to early 30's. I stayed at a hotel in arena city.
1. I went to Caribbean club on Thursday and talked to 4 girls total that weren't hookers and bought drinks and tried to mingle.
They had good English, seemed a bit older. Maybe late 20's to early 30's. They all seemed to enjoy the drinks and wonder off after talking for a bit..Hi man,
I'm going to be there this this week too. Was wondering if you are looking for a wing man.
I tried posting 2 passport copies of the same girl with different names. Just wanted to show what these girls are up to and the extent to which they stretch themselves to make $$ But the site admin has deleted them and I have been warned rightly so.
For me Ukrainian girls are extremely hot and beautiful and they know the entire world wants them and so they get away with anything and everything, they are extremely lazy and evade from doing any hard work.
On the other hand Russian girls from the same beauty family a notch lower though but I find them hard working and less scrupulous and scammers. Be careful that's it.
Can you please expand on that last sentence. I am visiting Kiev for some fun with girls soon and safety is one of the questions I have about that.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.