Kyiv

[PhotoSlider]

Re morals- its my opinion that the preference to be morally good, always plays a part in the decision-making process, whether the decision-maker is aware of it or not; how much of a part it plays often depends on how financially desperate someone may be.

Re Mondays- please refer to the title of my post.

P.S. I'm only yanking your chain PhotoSlider, you know I love you man!Huh! The admiration is all mutual!

Agree with you. Precisely a year ago I had a negotiation with exclusive Kiev agency over Viber. Mamasan asked 9000 UAH for 4 hours. I countered with 4000. She responded with saying verbatim:

- My girls aren't prostitutes!

- I never said they are. Quality of their services speaks for itself. Yet I would rather go with one of my free girlfriends. 5000 for 6 hours? Let me know please, as I have a business meeting coming up.

- 6000 for 4 hours!

- Sorry, I have a conference call starting now.

- You're twisting my hands! 5000 UAH for 4 hours.

- Deal. I cancel conference call. How soon can she be here?

- 60-90 minutes at your door.

- Thank you for understanding and accommodating my request.

The girl was outstanding. I had three different ones from that agency. One of them said the following in my bed:

- By the way, I like it hard and strong.

I obliged.

[AntonySun1996]

Trading currencies for profit is incredibly difficult, more difficult than trading stocks, bonds, commodities.Agreed. In fact I have been trading currencies on some legit online trading platform in the last few days. Initially I made some gains from buying GBPUSD following the conservative victory in the vote, but then I started to lose my money as a result of some poor judgement of the market trend. Luckily the loss wasn't material and I really enjoyed the adrenaline rises while trading. I still trade, for recreational purposes. Trading currencies is quite similar to mongering, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. The only difference is that one successful monger may offset your loss from ten failed ones, which is not the case for Forex trade.

I planned to buy grivnas but no one is selling them in my town, and I didn't find an online platform to buy them either. I will buy them when I visit Kyiv next time, which will be soon.

My main currency is CNY and I have already suffered from loss following the trade war. It's always safer to have multiple currencies in your pocket, unless your main currency is USD which is fairly stable.

[Riina]

Hi all! Yummy here. I've not played this game for a couple of years but I am returning to Kiev in March for a year or more. Why Ukraine and not Russia?

[Beko9]

Hi Tomster99,

I share your enthusiasm for massages. Sadly it is hard to find a good venue with attractive and skilled masseuses, clean and tastefully decorated premises and fresh and fluffy towels.

So if you have an up to date info, please share.

For years I frequented a salon called Bagira, located on the ground floor of a Soviet 5-storey block of flats near Lukianivska metro station. They had two rooms with mirrored walls and ceilings and a shower cubicles in the rooms. A selection of two or three girls in their early 20's were available. The girls were properly trained in the art of Thai massage. Not a quick rub but a proper full massage from head to toes. An hour session would cost circa 700, that included an assisted shower at the start, with an optional "relaxation" followed by an an hour of Thai massage, front and back, which smoothly transitioned into body to body slide and a happy ending at the end. I was particularly fond of a girl called Valeria. She had big blue eyes and an instagrammable bubble butt. She regularly worked out in the gym.

Sadly last year the phone line of the establishment went dead and the website has also vanished. Whether the police busted the place or the owners have retired (I first went there back in 2006), that I do not know.

If Thomster or anyone else knows any info about the business, or if Valeria is available somewhere else, I would appreciate the info.


Hi guys,

I am a lot into massages lately. Feel like sharing your preferred places in Kiew?

Up to now: mine is SalonDream currently.

[YummyPL]

Why Ukraine and not Russia?Riina, unfortunately my work is taking me to Kyiv. I wish I was going to Moscow. I do agree with DramaFree that Russia is better for those in our hobby, but I am up for the Kyiv challenge again and expect I will do just fine.

[ChaosDK]

Close to Maidan there was De Fleur or something, with both sensual and BDSM. Also went down.I went to this place 4-5 years ago for a short BDSM session. Going back to Kiev next month. Does anyone know of places or girls that are into BDSM?

[Member #4722]

Riina, unfortunately my work is taking me to Kyiv. I wish I was going to Moscow. I do agree with DramaFree that Russia is better for those in our hobby, but I am up for the Kyiv challenge again and expect I will do just fine.I imagine Russia IS better for the hobby but also seems a lot more expensive there. Also Kiev more of a chance to find a fresh semi pro.

[DramaFree11]

I imagine Russia IS better for the hobby but also seems a lot more expensive there. Also Kiev more of a chance to find a fresh semi pro.Russia, is not more expensive, if you know what you are doing and you have a way better chance of meeting fresh girls. Ukraine's are not having babies anymore at least not in Ukraine, very low birth rate and 15-25% population is leaving the country annually, major brain drain, both male / female.

These are facts others choose to ignore and pretend like this is not an issue.

[AntonySun1996]

I imagine Russia IS better for the hobby but also seems a lot more expensive there. Also Kiev more of a chance to find a fresh semi pro.It depends. While Moscow is expensive, mongering in some provincial cities in Russia can cost you a lot less than in kyiv, and there are quality girls there too. However the infrastructure and entertainment in these cities are quite under-developed compared to Moscow, StP, or kyiv, so you probably wouldn't like to stay there for long.

With grivnas rising rapidly and Ukrainian economy stabilizing, I doubt kyiv will remain "cheap" in, say, five years from now. Some of us would probably have to look for kyiv substitutes then.

[YummyPL]

I imagine Russia IS better for the hobby but also seems a lot more expensive there. Also Kiev more of a chance to find a fresh semi pro.I found Moscow rather expensive for P4P (maybe I didn't work on it hard enough) but had great success with "freebies. " They are certainly less jaded by the presence of foreigners.

That said, I've had a great time in Kyiv in the past. I plan on making it a great time again.

[YummyPL]

15-25% population is leaving the country annuallyThat is simply not true.

[DramaFree11]

That is simply not true.Sorry, respectfully disagree. You might want to do some research on this subject. It is a major issue and has been for years.

[YummyPL]

Sorry, respectfully disagree. You might want to do some research on this subject. It is a major issue and has been for years.I have seen lots of research. It is part of the work I do. The total Ukrainian diaspora living in other countries is about 5-6 million (a little over 3M in Russia) which is only about 10% of ethnic Ukrainians total worldwide. That isn't even annual--that is EVERYONE that has left or was born outside the country in total. The population of Ukraine has gone down about 7% total in 27 years (since independence not including losing Crimea) and that is largely due to low birth rates. There is some immigration to counter the emigration but it is not 1 for 1. Further, many that do leave emigrate temporarily for work but return.

I am giving conservative numbers, but the numbers are not even remotely near 15-25%. Even if we were to use your low number (15% annually), Ukraine's population would have gone from 47 M in 2016 to 26 M in 2019. That is just absurd.

[Member #4722]

I have seen lots of research. It is part of the work I do. The total Ukrainian diaspora living in other countries is about 5-6 million (a little over 3M in Russia) which is only about 10% of ethnic Ukrainians total worldwide. That isn't even annual--that is EVERYONE that has left or was born outside the country in total. The population of Ukraine has gone down about 7% total in 27 years (since independence not including losing Crimea) and that is largely due to low birth rates. There is some immigration to counter the emigration but it is not 1 for 1. Further, many that do leave emigrate temporarily for work but return.

I am giving conservative numbers, but the numbers are not even remotely near 15-25%. Even if we were to use your low number (15% annually), Ukraine's population would have gone from 47 M in 2016 to 26 M in 2019. That is just absurd.Haha don't bother posting facts. He lived here years ago and his friends that still live in Kiev keep him abreast of all the current information! Hahaha.

[PhotoSlider]

Haha don't bother posting facts. He lived here years ago and his friends that still live in Kiev keep him abreast of all the current information! Hahaha.The more potential visitors think that Kiev sucks, the fewer of them will decide to actually go to Kiev, spend money there, and jack up the prices for services. Meaning good girls will be more affordable for us, mere mortals.

Yeah, "Kiev sucks, everybody should go to Moscow".

[DramaFree11]

Haha don't bother posting facts. He lived here years ago and his friends that still live in Kiev keep him abreast of all the current information! Hahaha.Kind of interesting of the 2 or 3 that complain about my reports. Neither write any post report of there travels at any destinations, were I have written several at different destinations. I give examples of destinations where there are actually Hot Girls, reasonably priced. And less Scams. These guys know who they are they just continue to keep the fantasy alive about Kiev.

True I have not been to Kiev in 3 years but there is no way it now suddenly better then 3 years ago, absolutely no way. During this tine I have probably made 50-75 trips to Moscow and different parts of Mexico, both are way better then Kiev, not even close. There is a reason why I stopped going and many others have done the same. Subtract mine and P.S. Report's, most report that Kiev is average at best. There is nothing wrong with average, but when guys claim they are banging 9's /10's on a nightly basis. This is just not possible at any destinations, especially Ukraine.

I do give P.S. Credit, at least he writes reports. We may have different opinions on Kiev and at least he post reports of his travels, for that I give him credit. I have also learned a few things from his reports. The others just live in the past and do not contribute to any other destinations, not in Kiev. I guess if I was sitting at home fantasizing about the old days of Kiev, I would say it is a great place, instead I have taken what I learned from Kiev and now travel and make great memories.

[YummyPL]

Kind of interesting of the 2 or 3 that complain about my reports. Well, I have been out of the game for 2. 5 years. Back when I was playing, I did contribute. I will chronicle my journey when it starts in March.

[Member #4722]

He says 25 percent of the population is leaving Ukraine yearly and then accuses others of being in a fantasy land. I couldn't believe someone who consistently posts such ridiculous opinions is serious, but in this case I think he may seriously believe his own nonsense. So in 10 years there will be a couple thousand people in Ukraine? LOL. Since he responded to my post I am assuming he is talking about me as one who doesn't post reports. Another ridiculous statement as I have posted many detailed reports from Ukraine, Mexico (Tijuana and CDMX), Panama City, Germany and Romania in the last couple years. I told myself I would ignore his posts and have him blocked but unfortunately I'm not always logged in and am exposed to his obsessive posts. All lies and hyperbole.

[AntonySun1996]

There is nothing wrong with average, but when guys claim they are banging 9's /10's on a nightly basis. I ain't see nobody claiming that.

[Internash1]

I have a question about girls with tinder profiles that only have an instagram in the description or say to write them on insta because they don't visit tinder often, etc. In your experiences, are they pros / semi-pros. I have had decent success on Mamba with finding good semi-pro student types in the past but if this is another avenue to find similar types, I would explore this option as well. Thanks in advance!Probably neither, they're likely just looking for more followers.

[Internash1]

Huh! The admiration is all mutual!

Agree with you. Precisely a year ago I had a negotiation with exclusive Kiev agency over Viber. Mamasan asked 9000 UAH for 4 hours. I countered with 4000. She responded with saying verbatim:

- My girls aren't prostitutes!

- I never said they are. Quality of their services speaks for itself. Yet I would rather go with one of my free girlfriends. 5000 for 6 hours? Let me know please, as I have a business meeting coming up.

- 6000 for 4 hours!

- Sorry, I have a conference call starting now.

- You're twisting my hands! 5000 UAH for 4 hours.

- Deal. I cancel conference call. How soon can she be here?

- 60-90 minutes at your door..Much respect there PhotoSlider; care to share the contact / details. Thanks.

[Tits_Lover]

Just wanted to share my method for optimizing the results of the P2 P efforts in Kiev. I have been chatting privately with PhotoSlider and we shared some ways of doing but I will keep that part pvt for us.

However, there is a solid method which is working very well for me. No magic but concrete, it requires a great effort.

You need time, a web browser and Internet connection.

Select a few sites which collect all sort of girls / ads, you know them all already.

1) Contact each of them and try collect their phone numbers.

2) Take a screenshot of the girl and s few crucial notes from their ads which you consider important (e. G. Age, breast size, services, taboos, whatever you like).

3) Create a new entry in your Google contact list for each of them and associate the pic / screenshot with the comments.

After some years of this effort, I have now a huge DB of numbers / pics which allows me to quickly separate inde from agencies (I am more after the former because I hate the bait / switch from agencies and don't like to have a dispatcher in the middle). 70% of the numbers I collect today are already in my DB and I can spot fakes and agencies very quickly (big gain for me). I also developed a quite good attitude in spotting fake pics from all the rest, new girls from pro, etc. It's very funny now to find numbers which are 2-3 years old still valid and working.

Anyway, as PhotoSlider said: Kiev is very bad for P2 P please go to Moscow instead ;)

[PhotoSlider]

Anyway, as PhotoSlider said: Kiev is very bad for P2 P please go to Moscow instead ;)Precisely! Finally a wise man is on the Forum sharing my opinion that Kiev is terrible. The whole country of Ukraine is the armpit of Civilized World! It's a miracle that some of us have the courage to go there and suffer through bait and switch, and end up sleeping with old fat ugly overpriced Ukrainian women, while much much better options are available everywhere.

Go to Moscow. Or even better alternative, - Tijuana!

[PhotoSlider]

Much respect there PhotoSlider; care to share the contact / details. Thanks.Sorry, man! Not online with a newbie. Nothing against you personally, but I exchange info either in person, or with those who already established themselves as respected contributors on this Forum.

That contact was given to me by another Senior Forum member a year ago, without the explicit right to pass it along.

Just so that you don't feel too bad about it, some of the girls were no good. One was great for about 10 minutes in bed, and 30 minutes later during our dinner together told me to "fuck off!" in a very unambiguous manner. She also did some other unacceptable deeds.

The other one tried to avoid kissing in the beginning, and became very close to GTFO. She quickly corrected her behavior though, and the morning after sleepover moaned loudly and rather sincerely. I had a cleaning maid arriving at 9 am, and 10 minutes before that, precisely at 8:50 am I asked for a BBBJ. She raised her eyebrow, and complied. Few months later she stayed with me overnight for free, not counting a nice dinner with few glasses of decent wine.

Two other girls were much better. One provided Greek for free and was lots of joy in many ways. The second girl is totally my favorite still today after more than a year. Both were ready to go on a short notice.

Anyway, Tits_Lover explained great working approach real well. Best of luck in building your own contacts DB, and sharing reports here. You can do it. Or go to Moscow instead.

[PhotoSlider]

...unfortunately my work is taking me to Kyiv...Wish I was that unfortunate!

[PhotoSlider]

criterion for economical mongering should be happiness (including happy memories) per dollar spent, not orgasms per dollar / "bang per buck".Totally agree. While there is a correlation between ejaculation and happiness, it goes well beyond purely physiological release and expands further into psychological, mental part of it. Attitude, manners, personality, and especially her tenderness, feminine side means so much more to me. Still without good sex, the girl may last only if there is at least one more young lady currently available for satisfaction. I can handle multi-tasking.


I think many older guys who monger are looking to finally experience the type of ideal girlfriend (beautiful, always friendly and sexually available) that they wanted when they were younger....That is precisely what I am looking for. Illusion of returning to Eternal Youth. Except I had that kind of girlfriends when I was significantly younger, and then, using your metaphor, my wheels fell off for about a decade. Took me another decade or more to get to a comfortable level of happiness that I have these days while in Kiev.


I don't see a problem, in itself, in marrying an ex-prostitute. Problem with me and my current Kyiv regular is the 30 year age difference. I'm at a point where I like being alone most of the time, so am pretty much unfit for marrying any woman, but especially unfit for someone who has her whole life ahead. I'm actually happy that she sees other men and never contacts me when I'm gone. Gives me the freedom to go off bicycling by myself in the desert like I'm doing now. When I come to Kyiv, she shows up reliably, is perfectly behaved for the several hours we are together, then reliably disappears. Like the girl in that television show "I Dream of Jeannie", who lived in a bottle until her master summoned her, then was supposed to shrink and go back into the bottle when master wanted that. Except Jeannie / Genie in that show was often troublesome (refused to go back into her bottle when so commanded, for example).

I'm planning on keeping my rental girlfriend indefinitely. But I'm aware that a girl so much younger might fall in love with a man closer to her age, or decide to have children, or otherwise disappear from my life at any time. So I prepare myself mentally for eventually having to seek a replacement. If she reaches age 40 (12 years from now), without marrying someone else, her book value might be close to zero in most men's eyes, but I might still find her attractive, based on having known her since she was much younger, so I might continuing seeing her until my own wheels fall off (sex no longer interests me) and handicapped spot is exactly what I'll be needing.Strategic thinking at its finest!

I used to imagine that I want a dedicated high quality rental GF next to me for a long time. For multiple weeks. Then empirically I realized 2-3 days is a max. Freshness wears out, her orgasms become less artistic, and I feel the need for an "inlay" of hourly girls here and there while my long-term is away for finals at her University or is at beauty salon for a few hours.

I went further and over the last 2 years understood that the best modus operandi for myself is keeping a dynamic Harem of 3 to 5 readily available and well tested rental girlfriends. Some of them come for 2-3 days, some for 4-8 hours. The key must be their willingness to arive on a short notice, and to leave when asked to. Usually it is a time of arrival and departure agreed upon beforehand. Sometimes sudden change of plans forces me to ask the current attendant to leave sooner, for example due to unexpected meeting request from the girl whose priority is higher. In Kiev I certainly value how trustworthy girls leave without too many questions. Of course I do it in a respectful manner, occasionally providing better transportation with my personal driver and such. I certainly value their manners and attitude, yet still I work on seeking candidates to replenish the above Harem, as girls get married, move back home, graduate from University, change attitude, ask for more money than they are worth in my opinion.

I certainly have no illusions about them being dedicated strictly to me and no one else.

In my case it is many interlapping girls, indirectly competing for my time. That leads to occasional scheduling conflicts, and that is part of entertainment.

In yours, Kozerog, it is a firmly formulated personal choice of having one trusted girl. Makes it much easier in many respects.

[TinyHippo]

Just wanted to share my method for optimizing the results of the P2 P efforts in Kiev. I have been chatting privately with PhotoSlider and we shared some ways of doing but I will keep that part pvt for us.

However, there is a solid method which is working very well for me. No magic but concrete, it requires a great effort.

You need time, a web browser and Internet connection.

Select a few sites which collect all sort of girls / ads, you know them all already.

1) Contact each of them and try collect their phone numbers.

2) Take a screenshot of the girl and s few crucial notes from their ads which you consider important (e. G. Age, breast size, services, taboos, whatever you like).

3) Create a new entry in your Google contact list for each of them and associate the pic / screenshot with the comments.

After some years of this effort, I have now a huge DB of numbers / pics which allows me to quickly separate inde from agencies (I am more after the former because I hate the bait / switch from agencies and don't like to have a dispatcher in the middle). 70% of the numbers I collect today are already in my DB and I can spot fakes and agencies very quickly (big gain for me). I also developed a quite good attitude in spotting fake pics from all the rest, new girls from pro, etc. It's very funny now to find numbers which are 2-3 years old still valid and working.

Anyway, as PhotoSlider said: Kiev is very bad for P2 P please go to Moscow instead ;)I do something similar. I have a separate phone for mongering and just take a screen shot of their Mamba / Tinder / etc. And use it as their contact photo and their name will be something like "Vlada, 23, Kyiv" in my phone. So, Kyiv is searchable in my contacts. If I have met them already, I put them to the bottom of my contacts by changing it to "Z_Vlada, 23, Kyiv" for a rainy day. If I plan to not see a girl again, I will just delete the number. No reason to have 100 numbers. 20 is fine with me as I tend to pay for a few and focus on freebies.

[Arkiloko]

Wish I was that unfortunate!I'd also like it.

[Arkiloko]

Since goldenpantheras' shooting down by police, I was looking online for some other salon.

I'd like to know if someone of these gentlemen never tried them.

Starting from Flirt club (club-flirt.com) near Maidan I suppose. From 1200 to 1600/ h.

Another one is hot-kiss. Club. It seems not bad 1600-2000 gvna/h

Last one Apelsin t. Me / ApelsinGirls they start from 800, if you dare.

Does anybody know something about them?

[Habeed]

Question for Photoslider: can you share with us the list of sites or methods you use to find girls? FINDING girls who I can communicate with (perhaps there is a translator I can hire?) who don't have GPS is a big problem here. A million hot girls but if you can't speak the language and you feel awkward approaching in the street.

So I am on week 3 of a 3 week trip to Ukraine. I started in Lviv, for personal reasons, but after trying for 5 days I took a train to Kiev. Lviv has jack shit. I found 4 different brothels. Two have a "taxi lineup" where several girls come crammed in a taxi to your place and you pick one. All are terrible. Out of 4 brothels, and about 15 girls I saw and 4 I fucked, the service was mediocre with all, and all were older and fatter. Also none had a pretty face.

Without an idea how photoslider did it, I went to a site I am familiar with in the USA, seeking arrangement.

So this site only works in Kiev, there are not sufficient girls yet on the site in any of the other Ukrainian cities. And the problem with most of the seeking girls is GPS. They have a hugely inflated sense of their market value. I have seen quotes for 1000 euro, 500 euro, 500 usd several times, and a couple for 300. Worse, if you offer something reasonable most will refuse. I also tried saying yes, and those girls harass me constantly. This is because they may set their prices this high, but they are getting very few sales at that price. Ukrainians don't seem to understand the relationship between price and demand.

Anyways, I eventually saw 3 girls. One met me at the mall and scammed me out of about $40. "let's buy a gift for my sister". The amount was so small that I didn't really expect her to scam me.

The second I fucked for 250 USD. She was the lowest quote I had seen and I wanted to at least see what that would buy me. Basically a hooker experience with DFK with that one. (not even a BBBJ).

The third I am still seeing. She's some poor unemployed student, about a 7 with great legs and butt. Far more GFE an experience, she comes over and watches TV with me and we cuddle and the sex comes naturally. And the first time I started handing her money and she stopped me at 2 k uah. I have given here 3 k uah each meeting afterwards, my choice, part of that "efficiency wage" theory of economics.

But she is kind of flakey, has school and raves and needs to visit her parent's house and other young people stuff.

So I think the obvious, most efficient way to do this is to find a couple of girls like this, where you have an ongoing mistress like relationship and see them several times a week (for a payment appropriate for local prices). You need at least 2 girls because of the flakiness of Ukrainian women. Get mutually tested so you can stop bothering with condoms. (I know, not foolproof, if you are really worried about it you can go on PreP).

I have also fucked a few of the apartment brothel girls. The way you find these brothels is there are touts who will take you to them around the Arena City entrance, the one by Vapianos. Try after 11 pm, guarantee you will find several.

I will observe that there are several price points for the brothels, but the price has little to do with what you will get. The 4 k UAH one I went to tonight, and it had one fat girl and one thick girl. I then went to a 2600 UAH place, and fucked the skinniest girl they had. She cheated me out of the rest of the hour, once I finished in 20 minutes she put her clothes back on. The 2100 UAH place, one that is near Mama Manana on the top floor is the actually efficient business. It has far more girls, they do lineups in lingerie so you can consistently pick the ones with the best bodies, and nearly all the girls will stay the full hour. Some do extra things like BBBJs and stripper slides and DFK, though most won't.

Naturally the most expensive places have zero traffic, you don't even see how they stay in business. Ukrainians seem to have a different (and incorrect) theory of economics.

[Habeed]

Sorry, man! Not online with a newbie. Nothing against you personally, but I exchange info either in person, or with those who already established themselves as respected contributors on this Forum.I don't seem to be able to PM you. Photoslider are you in Kiev this week? Perhaps we could meet in person, I would very much like to learn from the master.

[PhotoSlider]

Ukrainians seem to have a different (and incorrect) theory of economics.Opinion different from yours doesn't mean incorrect. Seems to work for Ukrainians making money off of visitors for the last few hundred years.

[PhotoSlider]

I don't seem to be able to PM you. Photoslider are you in Kiev this week? Perhaps we could meet in person, I would very much like to learn from the master.1. Read the FAQ. Pay for subscription. Then you can PM. Payments help to cover ISG site expenses.

2. Please do not bother PM me though. Read below. Besides I am definitely not a pimp. And flattery doesn't work on me.

3. Kiev seems to frustrate you. If you don't like it, go to Moscow. Or Tijuana. The latter one is very transactional. Truly well oiled machine.

[Jimm987]

Hi,

Which Kiev agency could you recommend?

Thanks.


Huh! The admiration is all mutual!

Agree with you. Precisely a year ago I had a negotiation with exclusive Kiev agency over Viber. Mamasan asked 9000 UAH for 4 hours. I countered with 4000. She responded with saying verbatim:

- My girls aren't prostitutes!

- I never said they are. Quality of their services speaks for itself. Yet I would rather go with one of my free girlfriends. 5000 for 6 hours? Let me know please, as I have a business meeting coming up.

- 6000 for 4 hours!

- Sorry, I have a conference call starting now.

- You're twisting my hands! 5000 UAH for 4 hours.

- Deal. I cancel conference call. How soon can she be here?.

[Habeed]

Opinion different from yours doesn't mean incorrect. Seems to work for Ukrainians making money off of visitors for the last few hundred years.Ukraine seems to have a number of businesses with "scam" level prices. That is, they charge between double and ten times but don't offer any more value for the extra money.

They would mostly fail in the USA. And you see them deserted of customers here. But I concede that the occasional foreign "whale" who falls for the scam obviously is very profitable for the business and they keep the doors open.

Or not, could be they are all money laundering, dunno.

[Habeed]

1. Read the FAQ. Pay for subscription. Then you can PM. Payments help to cover ISG site expenses.

2. Please do not bother PM me though. Read below. Besides I am definitely not a pimp. And flattery doesn't work on me.

3. Kiev seems to frustrate you. If you don't like it, go to Moscow. Or Tijuana. The latter one is very transactional. Truly well oiled machine.I just wanted to shoot the breeze and or find how you found your stable. I am well aware that the 1 in 10 girl you find who is decent is a valuable commodity and I would not expect you to share without an equal or better trade.

I don't enjoy your tone in this message.

[NoMarriage]

They are all free at the Ferrari store in Arena city on Khryshatic. Any tips on how to find girls not from internet as aged women 24 and over is too old for me. I don't want to work to find a hot girl. I was lucky as an 18 year old by passed the mafia apartments and started seeing me on my own. She was everything on the table. And wow. 2nd visit with a buddy was all condom now.

Someone else said to go to the Lisovak statation. IDK someone with exp fill me in.


TIPS.

From my experience, I have had to firstly go through the hassle of finding the physical door, getting the apartment no (difficult to wait outside in the winter), then you are in. Hoping that your timing is good and girl number is max. Fri, Sat, Sun 6-9 pm are good periods.

I found it easier to go with someone, preferably someone who can talk Russian and relax and distract the girls. This allows you to properly check out a girl physically, which is difficult when they are all staring at you!!

Its difficult to hang around long enough to assess their personalities so buy the overpriced drink and / or ask to smoke a ciggie. Creating more hanging around time.

Take all their names down, secretly noting the one you like.

Within 15 to 30 minutes, your work is done and you must leave or take a girl.

[PhotoSlider]

I don't enjoy your tone in this message.Please don't take it personal. My objection was to a certain category of visitors.

Instead of feeling insulted, why don't you read 20-30 pages back. ISG Forum allows looking at all posts for any particular member. Everything is out there including detailed explanation of my approach.

It seems you traveled to Kiev multiple times, and surely know by now that it is not easy at all, not cheap, and thanks God it is nothing like USA.

You will not be spoonfed on this Forum. Not by me. And I mean it not for you personally.

Sufficient information has been exchanged to make the trip successful for many visitors even on their first time. And you are not first timer, yet do not seem happy.

David42 is the most recent example. He made mistakes of his own in the very beginning, but was relentless, and eventually worked it out beautifully. One thing that differentiates him. He didn't have contempt for Ukrainian ladies, he didn't look at them as naturally born cheaters. Many visitors do. An it is a huge turn off, as girls sense it right away, and behave accordingly. I'm not saying to relax and think every one is a princess. By all means do not let your guard down, still there is a reasonable balance. Otherwise you will get a mere 60 minutes receptacle of your sperm, nothing more.

Again, if you want a simple sex for money acts, then go to Tijuana. Way cheaper and closer than Kiev. Some people think Moscow is amazing hehehe.

Sincerely speaking, I do not think Kiev is the best fit for you. Maybe I am mistaken. Just thinking aloud.

[Arkiloko]

They are all free at the Ferrari store in Arena city on Khryshatic. Any tips on how to find girls not from internet as aged women 24 and over is too old for me. I don't want to work to find a hot girl. I was lucky as an 18 year old by passed the mafia apartments and started seeing me on my own. She was everything on the table. And wow. 2nd visit with a buddy was all condom now.

Someone else said to go to the Lisovak statation. IDK someone with exp fill me in.Lisova is not a place I'd go by night to look for something. During day there is a lot of people, and it's quite safe. But it's not the best place in Kiev. (anyway you can see working in the big market some stunning 9/10 but not Wg I think).

Didn't understand what you said about ferrari at arena.

[Bsizzle123]

Hello everyone,

I always thought of going Ukraine to find some hot girls for a reasonable price for sex. After reading most of the reviews on this page, Ukraine does not seem like a place that is convenient and seems like a lot of scams and over price. Can someone tell me otherwise? If not I'm going to just stick to my Thailand, Germany, Barcelona, Montreal.

[CastOnThis]

Hello everyone,

I always thought of going Ukraine to find some hot girls for a reasonable price for sex. After reading most of the reviews on this page, Ukraine does not seem like a place that is convenient and seems like a lot of scams and over price. Can someone tell me otherwise? If not I'm going to just stick to my Thailand, Germany, Barcelona, Montreal.Ukraine is not worth it. There are not so many hot girls and the ones that are are typically not going to be pro thanks to the internet and rich foreigners. The problem with Ukrainian mindset is that they believe they are worth more than they actually are. So they overcharge for sex. Like wtf? Your country is poor, sex work is not meant to make you rich, but help you financially for the rent.

[Riina]

Hello everyone,

I always thought of going Ukraine to find some hot girls for a reasonable price for sex. After reading most of the reviews on this page, Ukraine does not seem like a place that is convenient and seems like a lot of scams and over price. Can someone tell me otherwise? If not I'm going to just stick to my Thailand, Germany, Barcelona, Montreal.If true mongering is your goal, stick to your other places. If you're looking for a relationship, then Ukraine increases your chances exponentially. If you can't attract a girl in the West, your chances are still just about zero in Ukraine.

[DramaFree11]

Ukraine is not worth it. There are not so many hot girls and the ones that are are typically not going to be pro thanks to the internet and rich foreigners. The problem with Ukrainian mindset is that they believe they are worth more than they actually are. So they overcharge for sex. Like wtf? Your country is poor, sex work is not meant to make you rich, but help you financially for the rent.Great report, I have been saying this for 2 years. Another myths is Ukraine Girls are looking for long term relationship with foreign, just not true. Very easy for Ukraine to simply leave now, so need to seek sponsors.

Totally correct about how they would rather be involved with local guys. Complete falsehood that had been created by marriage / dating sites. Just way to exploit lonely guys and take there money.

Thanks again for the report. Newbies need to pay attention to your report and others that give an accurate description of the obstacles you face in Ukraine now.

[PhotoSlider]

If true mongering is your goal, stick to your other places. If you're looking for a relationship, then Ukraine increases your chances exponentially. If you can't attract a girl in the West, your chances are still just about zero in Ukraine.What is your definition of relationship with an Ukrainian girl?

Next question to everybody on this forum. What is the percentage of foreign visitors using dating and marriage sites? Hopefully it is low. Now I understand why there are lasting complaints about Ukrainian cheaters and scams. Marrying the manager or even an ordinary offering from such a site is a recipe for disaster and trauma. Financial, legal and emotional.

Maybe I have been relatively successful because I never considered any dating or marriage sites as even remotely reliable or trustworthy, and never contacted them.

Dealing with hourly girls is another story. There are diamonds and pearls evenly spread through the sea of deception and mediocrity.

[Riina]

What is your definition of relationship with an Ukrainian girl?
Something beyond a sixty minute session where at a minimum you pretend to be friends and do other things besides fucking.

[Riina]

Another myths is Ukraine Girls are looking for long term relationship with foreign, just not true. Very easy for Ukraine to simply leave now, so need to seek sponsors.
I started reading this forum over ten years ago. Back then, "game" in Ukraine was a hot topic of the thread. What a croc of shit! I remember walking into Shooters nightclub and looking at this fat slob by himself with his reserved table and bucket of booze. It dawned on me at that moment that the only game was how deep you went down the rabbit hole. Any fool with lots of cash can find "relationships" and then claim "game".

[PhotoSlider]

Something beyond a sixty minute session where at a minimum you pretend to be friends and do other things besides fucking.Great concise explanation.

There are pros and cons of doing both:

Relationship: provides daydreamers like myself with a certain illusion. Cons have been discussed many times on this Forum.

Hourly girls: easy to get satisfied and detach. Pros and cons are obvious.

[PhotoSlider]

Lately I've been getting multiple PMs in the following format:

1. PhotoSlider you are so awesome!

2. I'd like to fuck Ukrainian beauties without condom, can you help please?

Here are my thoughts:

1. Flattery (intended or not) in my case results in strong rejection. Especially if that person didn't do homework on the ground.

2. I am against BBFS while visiting Ukraine for health and ethical reasons. In my not so humble opinion it is similar to the suicide (directed by foreign visitor upon himself) combined with attempted murder of the other person engaged in the act.

You want to kill yourself? Go ahead, jump off the bridge, or do Russian Roulette with Smith & Wesson 64 Revolver. Please stop asking me for assistance.

End of story.

[Kozerog]

Something beyond a sixty minute session where at a minimum you pretend to be friends and do other things besides fucking.By this definition, I have a relationship with the girl I've been seeing for 3 years, though the only thing we do during our 4 hour meets besides sex is talk, listen to music and watch youtube videos. But then that's all I want: reliably good sex whenever I'm in Kyiv with a beautiful younger woman with personality compatible to mine, who I'm getting closer to each year. And she gets what wants: easy money to add to savings, so she can buy her dream apartment someday. Both of us act polite and respectful so that we've never had the slightest argument. Ignoring the issue of children (which is the real reason for marriage) this is a better deal than most men and women get from their "relationshits".

Something similar is what I would recommend for all those older guys looking for Ukrainian women on marriage and dating sites. Namely, figure out a way to live part year in Ukraine, then find a woman you get along with and sponsor her long-term. Don't marry, which is a binding financial contract. And don't take Ukrainian women out of Ukraine.

For younger guys who want a family with children, and who can't afford to give up their career and move at least part-time to Ukraine, I recommend forgetting about Ukrainian women and instead look into sugar babies back where you came from. Avoid marriage and instead just get the girl pregnant then pay child support. If you think Ukraine escort websites are deceptive, wait until you try digging through seeking.com. But as in Ukraine, there are diamonds hidden in the garbage heap. If you dig long enough, you'll find one.

My experience is that plenty of average-looking young Ukrainian women are still very interested in being sponsored by foreign men. For example, girls at the dentist office, street markets, stores in the suburbs where only locals go. I can easily pass for a local based on looks, but as soon as I speak, my accent and intermediate level of Russian reveals that I'm a foreigner. Girls then ask where I am from. When I reply "American tourist", they become very excited. I attribute this excitement less to my nationality than to the following thought process: middle-aged single man in Kyiv = sex tourist; American = lots of money; intermediate Russian = planning on being here long-term; tourist = will conveniently disappear eventually, so no need to think too long-term; much older = easy to please. Final conclusion is that I'm a potential SPONSOR, which is the magic word these young women want to hear.

As noted, these are average looking girls. However, average slender 20 year old girls are still normally very sexually attractive to men 30 or 40 years older. And they typically have much nicer personalities than 20 year old girls in the USA.

I also sometimes get indications of interest from top tier women in their late 30's and 40's at my social activity, once they learn I'm American and speak intermediate Russian. Presumably, these are former trophy wives / mistresses who've been dumped for some reason. However, it is obvious that these women are looking for a true "relationshit" and / or marriage, not the permanent honeymoon relationship I have with my escort girl, who is younger, just as pretty, and has more compatible personality. Plus, they would likely be more expensive in the long run, as is typical with so-called "free" sex.

I never get indications of interest, in day to day activities in Kyiv, from top tier women in their 20's, regardless of what they learn about me. So to that extent Dramafree11 is correct: top tier of young Ukrainian beauties is not interested in sponsoring / marriage by much older foreigners, unless maybe you're a billionaire foreigner like Trump.

[Member #4722]

Don't forget today is Christmas in Ukraine and Russia. Sent greetings to several ladies I am close with; they always appreciate the gesture.

[PhotoSlider]

Something similar is what I would recommend for all those older guys looking for Ukrainian women on marriage and dating sites. Namely, figure out a way to live part year in Ukraine, then find a woman you get along with and sponsor her long-term. Don't marry, which is a binding financial contract. And don't take Ukrainian women out of Ukraine.Can't agree more on all the points!


top tier of young Ukrainian beauties is not interested in sponsoring / marriage by much older foreigners, unless maybe you're a billionaire foreigner like Trump.Call me whatever, but I am not interested in top tier Ukrainian beauties either.

Leaving aside the precise definition of that top tier, and assuming there exists such a definition commonly accepted by the society, I would rather focus on perceived benefits of having one of those top tier trophies.

As emotional as I am, I still consider interaction with female objects of my desire as business activity somewhat similar to investment into mutual funds. There are different types. Money market, bonds, stock and other categories of investment funds. Different risks, long term performance, availability, et cetera.

Same applies to Kiev girls, and that is why I diversify my investments enjoying both: hourlies and long term rental girlfriends, having more than one of the latter.

Some billionaires buy yachts, some sponsor top tier women. In my opinion risk and maintenance costs are too high + return on investment / performance is questionable. They are more of a status symbol, just like Bentleys and Mercedes AMG Brabus. Perhaps great cars, but I do not need a fridge in the trunk of my car, or armored body and glass. In fact I prefer not to own a car at all.

One might say that I am not a billionaire, and cannot afford Bentley or Ferrari. That is correct. Except it doesn't hurt my feelings at all.

Would I take one for a free ride? Maybe, but usually there are strings attached.

Having 3 to 5 concurrent long-term rental GFs + easily accessible hourlies of sufficient quality, works great for me, as long as, just as Kozerog described, I have no intention to build a family unit with any of those rentals. Having multiple LT GFs helps not to get too attached to any one in particular, and retire them at will.

Maybe hourlies are more similar to commodities, but that's technicality, mere terminology inaccuracy while using metaphors.

I consider current strategy of investment of my time and money into funds / Ukrainian beauties justified.

Now, just for fun, the question is, how would you describe Kiev market in terms of investment funds?

[YummyPL]

If you can't attract a girl in the West, your chances are still just about zero in Ukraine.While I agree with this statement, it is with a caveat. In my experience, while you still have to be able to attract a girl, Slavic girls seem to be much more comfortable being with men much older than they are. While I can easily attract a 45 year old in the USA (I'm 52), I have very little chance with a 30 year old. This seems not to be the case in the Slavic world where a girl 20 years younger is very possible.

[PhotoSlider]

While I agree with this statement, it is with a caveat. In my experience, while you still have to be able to attract a girl, Slavic girls seem to be much more comfortable being with men much older than they are. While I can easily attract a 45 year old in the USA (I'm 52), I have very little chance with a 30 year old. This seems not to be the case in the Slavic world where a girl 20 years younger is very possible.Agree with your adjustment wholeheartedly.

The very same 18-20 years old performs a passionate DFK with me in public downtown Kiev without any regrets or remorse of hers.

An hour ago I was in unisex sauna at my gym. 35 and under look through me like I am a pane of transparent glass. While those (exactly) 45 yo representatives of the opposite gender, that are deprived of attention, are trying to flirt. In vain.

And no, Jeffrey Epstein wasn't a billionaire. He had only about $500 M+. Would it have helped his predicament if he was? Would it save him from jail?

[Kozerog]

Call me whatever, but I am not interested in top tier Ukrainian beauties either.
I'm sorry now that I used that term top tier. Should have just stuck to my usual 3 category system of beauty, average, below average. Anyway, I got several concepts mixed up in my previous post, so let me clarify.

Some beautiful young women of Kyiv ARE available to sex tourists. In particular, girls who are psychologically suited for escorting and who would rather be escorts than mistresses / wives because they don't want to be dependent on one man. Those 40 yo former trophy wives / mistresses who got dumped, who I mentioned in my previous post, are a warning to younger women of the risk of such dependence. Beauties in this group may demand a high price, if they are exceptionally beautiful, but they are definitely available for rent by foreigners. Contrary to what Dramafree11 and others say, not all beautiful Ukrainian escorts leave for Moscow, Paris, etc. Plenty enough wealthy sex tourists in Kyiv that escort girls who prefer to stay in their native country can spare themselves the bother of traveling. However, beautiful escort girls like this will typically not show interest in foreigners at the gym or while walking down the street or otherwise "off duty", and that was part of what I was thinking of in my previous post.

My own girl falls into this category. When we first met, she mentioned that she often receives marriage offers from foreign men, then she shook her head and made a face as if annoyed. I think she was hinting to me not to make such an offer myself, not that I was planning such a thing. And my girl has given other signs of valuing her independence and never wanting to be "owned" by any one man. Or owned by an agency or employer either, which is why she escorted independently from the start and runs several small internet businesses to diversify her income. I don't ask too many questions, but I suspect she grew under conditions of severe economic stress and never wants to suffer such stress again.

Other beauties have no interest in escorting, but rather want an exclusive arrangement with one man, preferably as wife though some might also accept being a mistress. Unlike average looking girls, who may not have any men with money offering marriage, nowadays (unlike in the 1990's) Ukrainian beauties always have some good marriage prospects, so all the foreigner can typically offer is big money versus merely adequate money. And that isn't enough to outweigh all the other advantages a local man has. So these beauties also ignore foreigners in the gym or while walking down the street.

[Riina]

2. I am against BBFS while visiting Ukraine for health and ethical reasons. That's very sharp of you to mention ethical reasons. It's my experience that when you discover the hottie open to BBFS, there is always a health issue and not necessarily a std. I feel it crosses the line into exploitation.

[PhotoSlider]

...not all beautiful Ukrainian escorts leave for Moscow, Paris, etc. Plenty enough wealthy sex tourists in Kyiv that escort girls who prefer to stay in their native country can spare themselves the bother of traveling.Solid point. In addition to the above factor, many beauties in Kiev have strong enough ties, that prevent them from leaving. Students make up at least 100,000 in Kiev. National University alone is over 25,000. Polytech is even larger. Add to this food, telecom, transport, pedagogical, trade and economics. One of my long term rentals studied at Trade and Economics, and there were not that many boys in her class pictures.

There are more than 25 Universities in Kiev. Add schools in smaller towns surrounding Kiev. One of my rentals takes 2 hours train and is eager to meet with me despite almost 40 years age difference. Entertainment is a major factor for her.

Half of that 100 K+ is female. At least 10% (if not 30) are available for escort. That's 5,000. By the definition 30% of the latter are rated 8+. That makes 1,500.

Then there are office workers, beauty salons, waitresses. Possibilities are endless.

No need in further theoretical discussions and pointless arguing. The truth comes from those on the ground in Kiev. Most of the visitors that used some of my girls were happy.


However, beautiful escort girls like this will typically not show interest in foreigners at the gym or while walking down the street or otherwise "off duty", and that was part of what I was thinking of in my previous post.There goes the false statement "Speaking the language doesn't matter". For the last 2 years I could work remotely from Kiev and passed for local, who also travels globally. Changes the girls attitude radically. Gaining the phone number, and having them commit to a date is so much easier, as compared to the days when I was flying in for 3-5 days in Kiev and then out.

Walking down the street or dining at Avalon I am mostly ignored. Those that hit on me in Avalon elevator are not attractive on my scale, but otherwise there's lots of eye candy, surely not paying any attention to me. I am realistic in that respect, and having sufficient resources of my own, I do not feel bypassed or lacking female sympathy.


My own girl falls into this category. When we first met, she mentioned that she often receives marriage offers from foreign men, then she shook her head and made a face as if annoyed. I think she was hinting to me not to make such an offer myself, not that I was planning such a thing. And my girl has given other signs of valuing her independence and never wanting to be "owned" by any one man. Or owned by an agency or employer either, which is why she escorted independently from the start...Ditto! Same with my rental GF#1. Not interested in marriage (neither am I). Having multiple suitors, she stays with me, considering me local. In her opinion I outcompete others on many points. My age and looks are less of a factor to her.

I tried to politely ditch her at one point. She resisted fiercely, and she surely knows how to revive my interest. She speaks German and has decent command of English. She thought about getting passport for travel, but postponed that for now. Focusing on graduating University first.


Other beauties have no interest in escorting, but rather want an exclusive arrangement with one man, preferably as wife though some might also accept being a mistress. Unlike average looking girls, who may not have any men with money offering marriage, nowadays (unlike in the 1990's) Ukrainian beauties always have some good marriage prospects, so all the foreigner can typically offer is big money versus merely adequate money. And that isn't enough to outweigh all the other advantages a local man has. So these beauties also ignore foreigners in the gym or while walking down the street.That is the case with my rental GF#4. She wants straight sponsorship and full freedom. Strong spirit, sharp mind, great personality, beautiful body, the best in bed out of all 4 rentals. The only disadvantage she doesn't stay overnight, but that is compensated by her other advantages, and there are other girls that do stay.

At least half of that representative set from my August-September 2019 trip were definitely beautiful well above average. And most of them I met as escorts, not walking down the street. Pure business. Helps with having a stronger foundation.

[PhotoSlider]

That's very sharp of you to mention ethical reasons. It's my experience that when you discover the hottie open to BBFS, there is always a health issue and not necessarily a std. I feel it crosses the line into exploitation.Not sure I fully understand, Riina. What is the health risk, that is not an STD? Can you elaborate a bit more please?

One of the reverse risks is the girl using the visitor to get pregnant on purpose. I mentioned here once a very nice 6 am Kiev experience with a newbie stripper from Rio, when the condom slid off of me and stayed inside her when I pulled out. She was hysterical. Lucky me all the sperm was inside the condom. Regardless, I ran to 24-hour pharmacy around the corner for "the-morning-after" pill. Few weeks later she tried to black-mail me over the Viber and across the ocean. After couple hours of elaborate torture she declared:

- I was just kidding. Do you feel better now?

Yeah, I know some mongers have vasectomy done for that purpose. And some don't care if the girl is not smart enough to prevent pregnancy on her own.

There are long explanations why no condom is better. I do not care, and always use it.

Here is a technical question: what are the chances of getting the girl pregnant after BBBJTC, followed by a kiss and then DATY? I do not practice such a sequence, just am curious what does the common wisdom say.

[YummyPL]

Not sure I fully understand, Riina. What is the health risk, that is not an STD? Can you elaborate a bit more please?He said health issues, not health risk. I'm thinking he may mean they are unhealthy mentally if they do BBFS.

I must say that I am guilty with doing BBFS with all my non-direct-payment girlfriends and some pros, as well. I cannot have an orgasm at all with a condom. It is part of why I have stayed away from the hobby for a while.

[Riina]

Not sure I fully understand, Riina.When you meet that beautiful college age girl that looks completely healthy and she does BBFS on the first or second date, she is likely a girl with a medical problem. That has been my experience as a grown up guy. I don't want to fuck a sick girl.

[PhotoSlider]

He said health issues, not health risk. I'm thinking he may mean they are unhealthy mentally if they do BBFS...Aaaaah! Makes sense now. Thanks!

That is indeed the other reason why I stay away from anybody going without the condom. Now I recall an older lady who was willing to do anything from the start, and as we became more familiar, she started pushing for unprotected. And got fired. After giving it a thought, I concur, she wasn't quite normal mentally.

[AntonySun1996]

Here is a technical question: what are the chances of getting the girl pregnant after BBBJTC, followed by a kiss and then DATY? I do not practice such a sequence, just am curious what does the common wisdom say.Hi PhotoSlider,

While sperms die quickly once they are exposed to air, they can survive for a significant length of time in a warm and moist environment (inside the mouth, for example). The actions you described seem to pose a risk of getting the girl pregnant in this regard. I'm not an expert in this field so I cannot determine the exact level of the risk we are talking about, but I would suggest that you take precautionary measures just in case.

Some info you might find useful:

https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/how-long-does-sperm-survive-in-the-wild

Stay safe.

[ASUDevil1]

Not sure I fully understand, Riina. What is the health risk, that is not an STD? Can you elaborate a bit more please?

Here is a technical question: what are the chances of getting the girl pregnant after BBBJTC, followed by a kiss and then DATY? I do not practice such a sequence, just am curious what does the common wisdom say.The odds of getting a girl pregnant in this fashion are about as close to zero as you can get without being fully zero. Sperm cannot make it the distance from the labia, through the vaginal canal, and then the cervix, before finally arriving at the uterus. Even Michael Phelps sperm cannot swim that far.

[Kievg]

Can anyone give a price quote (average) for an apartment in Kiev for say, a week? Also, when I'm not poon-hunting, what historical sites are there to see in Kiev? I was told it's the oldest city in "Russia".Probably you were told about Kiev Rus. In this case, everything is OK. Kiev was the oldest city in the Kiev Rus. The Moscow was established few centuries later.

[PhotoSlider]

https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/how-long-does-sperm-survive-in-the-wildThank you, Anthony! Great resource. Viral twitter post is awesome!

I did talk to clinic receptionists on behalf of my GFs, and occasionally one of them was standing by. Can only imagine this conversation:

- There is nothing pathogenic in Tatyana Aleksandrovna's throat culture. But we did see alive spermatozoid in there.

- No way! Really?


The odds of getting a girl pregnant in this fashion are about as close to zero as you can get without being fully zero. Sperm cannot make it the distance from the labia, through the vaginal canal, and then the cervix, before finally arriving at the uterus. Even Michael Phelps sperm cannot swim that far.What a metaphor.

[Affaires]

Hi guys,

I'm going to Kiev in few weeks and I love massages, especially erotic massage. I found a lot of erotic massage parlours in Kiev, but I don't know which ones are the best. Can you help me?

I'm looking for naked girl massage with extra. Handjob minimum, blowjob or love.

And, can you tell the avarage prices?

I saw these parlours: Angelina, Erotic Time, "Relax", Salon Dream, Moulin rouge, Afrodita.

And if you have any advices for me, I'm a beginner.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Affaires.

[Limarian]

Turn on your PM and I will send info.

[Riina]

Hi guys,

I'm going to Kiev in few weeks and I love massages, especially erotic massage.I don't think anybody really cares at all about massages in Kiev. Rubs are the quickest intro to fresh cuties in Ukraine. I drove 35 miles once when I was told a hot college age Ukrainian was working at a parlor.

[Affaires]

Turn on your PM and I will send info.Sorry but I can't do that, unfortunately (non paying member). Can you give your info here?

Thanks!

[Timmy21]

I've visited three of the salons you've mentioned, Relax, Dream and MR, I preferred Relax over Dream simply because the girls were friendlier and more of a cozy place, albeit, the girls at Dream were a bit more attractive, Dream was also very busy, they kind of want you in and out as quick as possible, kind of like a buffet, Relax was just the opposite. I am kind of hesitate to talk about MR because it's been about two years since my last visit.


Hi guys,

I'm going to Kiev in few weeks and I love massages, especially erotic massage. I found a lot of erotic massage parlours in Kiev, but I don't know which ones are the best. Can you help me?

I'm looking for naked girl massage with extra. Handjob minimum, blowjob or love.

And, can you tell the avarage prices?

I saw these parlours: Angelina, Erotic Time, "Relax", Salon Dream, Moulin rouge, Afrodita.

And if you have any advices for me, I'm a beginner.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Affaires.

[Paveli]

My favorite massage parlor was Topless Club / Topless Salon / Adele or whatever they call themselves. It was really good, pretty girls, full time / service that was promised. Prices were decent too. Sadly they closed December, no idea why.

Had some time and I had to search myself a different massage place. I was planning on going to Dream but they were also closed that day. So I went to Relax on Pushkinska street.

I was basically robbed. I paid 1500 for body + 2 relax and didn't get either body or 2 relax. In addition I only received 40 minutes of service and the girl had a really sour face. So be warned.

I will try to go to dream when I have some spare time.


I've visited three of the salons you've mentioned, Relax, Dream and MR, I preferred Relax over Dream simply because the girls were friendlier and more of a cozy place, albeit, the girls at Dream were a bit more attractive, Dream was also very busy, they kind of want you in and out as quick as possible, kind of like a buffet, Relax was just the opposite. I am kind of hesitate to talk about MR because it's been about two years since my last visit.

[Affaires]

My favorite massage parlor was Topless Club / Topless Salon / Adele or whatever they call themselves. It was really good, pretty girls, full time / service that was promised. Prices were decent too. Sadly they closed December, no idea why.

Had some time and I had to search myself a different massage place. I was planning on going to Dream but they were also closed that day. So I went to Relax on Pushkinska street.

I was basically robbed. I paid 1500 for body + 2 relax and didn't get either body or 2 relax. In addition I only received 40 minutes of service and the girl had a really sour face. So be warned.

I will try to go to dream when I have some spare time.
I've visited three of the salons you've mentioned, Relax, Dream and MR, I preferred Relax over Dream simply because the girls were friendlier and more of a cozy place, albeit, the girls at Dream were a bit more attractive, Dream was also very busy, they kind of want you in and out as quick as possible, kind of like a buffet, Relax was just the opposite. I am kind of hesitate to talk about MR because it's been about two years since my last visit.Thanks you guys.

How far can we go with masseuses? Are there any tips to pay? Handjob / blowjob is it included? Can we fuck the masseuse?

Thanks a lot!

Affaires.

[ASUDevil1]

Hello fellow mongers,

Here is a quick report from my trip to Kiev. But first, a few ground rules:

1) I am not going to give out a ton of details on every single girl I saw. The reason for this is simple. The girls on Mamba change all the time. Some are there and two weeks later, gone. So giving this info is not as critical.

2) I'm not doing a play-by-play. You want that, read Penthouse Letters, if it still exists.

My trip: Four nights. Arrive on Sunday, leave on Thursday morning.

Pre-trip:

- a few weeks before my trip I spent time on Mamba getting some connections. Like others suggested, it is good to have a listing of the girls you connect with and the phone numbers they provide. A couple of times different girls with different photos gave me the same number, which definitely means "agency."

- Line up multiple girls to see. Even if you tell a provider you will arrive on Sunday and want to see her at 20:00, and she says yes she will see you, that doesn't mean she will be available. Plans change and chicks are flighty. I had two definite meetings planned with two girls who confirmed that were suddenly "out of town" or working when I arrived.

- When sending messages, respect the girl and her time. Keep messages short and be clear about what you want. A simple introduction: "Hi -) My name is XXX and I saw your photos on Mamba. You are very beautiful. I would like to meet you this afternoon or evening. Are you available? We can discuss on Viber, Telegram, or WhatsApp. " Use Google Translate to translate it to Ukrainian. This worked well for me.

- once you get a response, move the conversation to WhatsApp or Viber. Some girls may not give you a WhatsApp or Viber number until you arrive or are definite. That's fine, continue chatting with them on Mamba. Just note that you will get faster responses and clearer communications working through Viber or WhatsApp or Telegram. Once on WhatsApp or Viber, you can be clear about what you want. After exchanging greetings, do the following: a) say precisely what you want. For example: "I'm looking for 2 hours, oral without, kissing, deep BJ, lick pu$$y, cum in mouth, 2,400 UAH. " She will respond and tell you whether that works for her or not.

- Big tip. Ask for real photos. As you have read, Mamba has lots of fake photos. Some of the photos are fake because the girl wants to protect her identity but she is still pretty in real life. Other photos are fake because they want to scam you. Of my eight encounters, I had ONE bait and switch. And it was the only one where I forgot to ask for confirming photos. Of the other 7 encounters, four had real photos on Mamba, 3 did not but sent me real ones through WhatsApp / Viber.

Arrival:

Flew directly to Kiev from Warsaw. Total flight time about two hours. Flew info Zhuliany, which is a small airport but very easy to navigate and to get in and out of. Took Uber from airport to AirBNB downtown, stayed two blocks from Maidan. Some things to note. Many of the buildings in Kiev are older and do not have elevators. Don't make the mistake I did of not checking which floor the apartment is on. Walking up five flights of steps with a girl you just met tends to spoil the mood a bit.

Uber cost from airport to downtown - 150 UAH $6. 25 USD.

AirBNB cost: $55 per night.

Day 1 (Sunday).

- Once I arrived at the airport I had a few hours to kill since my apartment was not ready. So I got coffee at the airport and started to message my girls from the list. Good to do this early and be clear: "I'm in Kiev now, can we meet at 14:00?" Send out messages to several girls instead of waiting around -- some will respond quicker than others, but if you hold out waiting for the "perfect" one you've had your eye on, you will miss the others. Two girls who said they would meet me when I arrived on this day are suddenly out of town.

- Met with Valeria and Viktoria on day one. Both use real photos on Mamba. Viktoria changes her name on Mamba all the time. Both girls gave excellent 1. 5-2 hours for 2400 UAH.

Day 2.

- wake up and do some walking around, lunch, etc. Messaging girls here and there while taking a break. Line up one girl (Natali, 36 https: www. Mamba. Ru / mb1752097087#/ app) for the afternoon and then repeat in the evening with Viktoria. Natali photos are mostly fake, she is many years older now. But still puts out like a champ.

Day 3.

- Much the same as Day 2. Enjoy the city and line everything up during the day. A couple of the girls I am messaging start to get pissed because by the time they send me a response I have already lined up other girls. One even starts to post comments to my Mamba photos. These chicks are nuts. Some girls think that if you message her for a meeting you are only messaging her, but the no show rate is high and honestly, if you take 2-3 hours to respond to a message, what else is a man to do? I meet with М1072;1083;1080;1085;1086;1074;1072;1103; З1077;1092;1080;1088;1082;1072; 30 (https: www.mamba.ru/ mb1301887976#/ app). Fake photos for her, she is not a slender red head but is more like a 30 year old short hair blonds, but she still has a great body, great tits, and is very pretty. So this was worth it.

Day 4.

- last day. I meet with Anna and miss an opportunity to meet with Melania on Mamba. This is also the day I fall for the scam. This girl В1077;1088;1086;1085;1080;1082;1072;, 27 (https: www.mamba.ru / mb1769589878?sp=1&noid=1769589878&nchanged=1578759217&nactive=1# Not her real photos, and was basically such a ***** that I stopped in the middle of the fun and told her to get the hell out of the apartment. I'm an idiot, I should have noticed that the comments capability on all of her photos was blocked.

All in all, I very nice trip. I was not that much impressed with Kiev as a city itself (sorry, I do not say that to offend anyone). It is a very big city, dusty, very industrial. But the women were fantastic, and considering I banged my brains out for four days and spent less than 18,000 UAH Total, I would say there is good value.

[PhotoSlider]

Hello fellow mongers,

Here is a quick report from my trip to Kiev...

My trip: Four nights. Arrive on Sunday, leave on Thursday morning.Great report format! Thank you much for posting this. Forum didn't have that many informative reports lately.


Use Google Translate to translate it to Ukrainian. This worked well for me.Interesting choice of communication language. Did all of the girls respond back to you in Ukrainian?

I do a mix of Ukrainian and Russian. Usually Russian, as it is still most commonly used language in Kiev. I very much like learning Ukrainian, especially with native tongue carriers.


Many of the buildings in Kiev are older and do not have elevators. Don't make the mistake I did of not checking which floor the apartment is on. Walking up five flights of steps with a girl you just met tends to spoil the mood a bit.I try to stay no higher than 3rd floor, but do not like 1st or 2nd floor, because of potential break-ins, especially through the 2nd floor balcony door. Saw comments to that effect on one of AirBnB downtown properties.

I personally do not like elevators. They are noisy. And walking up with a high heeled beauty in front of me allows to assess how she moves, help her a bit, and to start building connection. On the other hand the same is true with elevators. They are seldom spacious in Kiev, which allows to reach out and assess her waist line, followed by the first kiss, sometimes passionate from the start.


A couple of the girls I am messaging start to get pissed because by the time they send me a response I have already lined up other girls. One even starts to post comments to my Mamba photos. These chicks are nuts. Some girls think that if you message her for a meeting you are only messaging her, but the no show rate is high and honestly, if you take 2-3 hours to respond to a message, what else is a man to do?The usual "hooker's jealousy" I find Ukrainian girls behavior quite similar to Latinas. Girls in Costa Rica may fuck left and right, and then throw a conniption fit if after having her for one hour, next day you attempt to chat with her competition. The explanation is simple: they are fighting for resources, - for mongers' money.


...I stopped in the middle of the fun and told her to get the hell out of the apartment. I'm an idiot, I should have noticed that the comments capability on all of her photos was blocked.Great advice on watching the comments blocked. Even better advice on kicking her out without having much regret.


All in all, I very nice trip. I was not that much impressed with Kiev as a city itself (sorry, I do not say that to offend anyone). It is a very big city, dusty, very industrial.There's some industry downtown, but really not that much. Did you get away from downtown visiting some of the girls, or they mostly came to your place near Maidan?

I am rather passionate about Kiev, but surely am not offended. Tastes differ.


But the women were fantastic, and considering I banged my brains out for four days and spent less than 18,000 UAH Total, I would say there is good value.Under 800 USD for 4 nights and leaving satisfied. Not bad at all, even considering travel and lodging expenses. You also requested slightly extended set of services. Good luck doing it in any of the developed countries for that much.

Realistic expectations, good prep, and proper attitude resulting in happy customer.

Can you compare your mongering experience to any other destinations?

Best regards!

[Member #4722]

- Met with Valeria and Viktoria on day one. Both use real photos on Mamba. Viktoria changes her name on Mamba all the time. Both girls gave excellent 1. 5-2 hours for 2400 UAH.If this is the Viktoria I'm thinking of then she has probably been hitting you up nonstop for money nonstop via WhatsApp LOL.

[Paveli]

Thanks you guys.

How far can we go with masseuses? Are there any tips to pay? Handjob / blowjob is it included? Can we fuck the masseuse?

Thanks a lot!

Affaires.As far as your game goes. It depends on many factors obviously. Usually just a handjob is included with the basic program. You can get more expensive programs with body massage (she rubs her tits on you), and kisses, and touches. The rest is up to every individual. Usually the answer is no. If you are looking to fuck just go to a prostitute.

[ASUDevil1]

If this is the Viktoria I'm thinking of then she has probably been hitting you up nonstop for money nonstop via WhatsApp LOL.Don't they all do that? Heck, half of the gals did it to me while I was there.

[Member #4722]

Don't they all do that? Heck, half of the gals did it to me while I was there.I guess that doesn't happen to me much since I always make it clear I'm on a tight budget whether true or not. This one in particular hit me with emergency for dog, pay for future session in advance, help her out because of a slow day, etc etc.

[SamPeter71]

Hi David.

I will be coming to Kiev for 3 days in 1st week of February. I have read lot of posts and understand that it is not easy here to get girls and lot of work needed.

So I plan to stick to apartments and clubs.

I live in us and originally from India. If you are coming to Bangalore or Calcutta, I can help with contacts. If you needs roles in Tijuana I can help.

If you need any info on Barcelona or Montreal I can help.

Could you please help with any polointers on Kiev?

Thanks.


I have been through about 30 girls.

I have lots of info about apartments in maidan, arena city area, klovska.

I have 10/12 apartments that I have experience with, and 6 or 7 agency contacts.

Prices range from 1200 up to 2100.

I have come across some people who are happy to exchange, others just want to take and not give back, so clearly I'm not going to give info to the one who doesn't give back to me or the forum.

I can share the contact of a Ukrainian friend, who lives here, and can help with many things.

I have also a number of girls that I can share with someone willing to do the same.

Photoslider's help was very invaluable to get me started, and I was lucky to be in contact with someone from Germany (unfortunately he was here for only a few days) who had the same approach as myself to sharing.

Message me if you want to get info.

[ASUDevil1]

I guess that doesn't happen to me much since I always make it clear I'm on a tight budget whether true or not. This one in particular hit me with emergency for dog, pay for future session in advance, help her out because of a slow day, etc etc.I's always something. Need to pay rent, need to pay credit, phone, something for the kids, etc. I don't want to sound uncaring -- in some of these cases it is probably true. The average monthly income for a Ukrainian is around $300 USD per month. So it can't be easy to get by for many people. But I also was aware, thanks to this board and my own awareness, that this is how the game is played, and that helped me fine tune my bullcrap sensor to easily deflect the sob stories. I just responded each time with "Sorry baby, but I can't help you today. "

[ASUDevil1]

Interesting choice of communication language. Did all of the girls respond back to you in Ukrainian?Prior to my trip I tried Russian. When I switched to Ukrainian I got more responses, and even though most conversations eventually switched to basic English, the Ukrainian did help open the door in the beginning. I would say it got me more opportunities, yes.


I try to stay no higher than 3rd floor, but do not like 1st or 2nd floor, because of potential break-ins, especially through the 2nd floor balcony door. Saw comments to that effect on one of AirBnB downtown properties.Well, I cannot say that this was entirely my fault. When looking at the AirBNB photos, I could see a street directly outside of the window of the small porch, and the street was level with the apartment. Unfortunately, that was because the building was built at the bottom of a big hill, and the street wrapped up and around the back of the building. So I was on the fifth floor, but looking out of the window of the apartment I was visually even with the street.

Like checking and asking for real photos of the girl, it is always best to check!


I personally do not like elevators. They are noisy. And walking up with a high heeled beauty in front of me allows to assess how she moves, help her a bit, and to start building connection. On the other hand the same is true with elevators. They are seldom spacious in Kiev, which allows to reach out and assess her waist line, followed by the first kiss, sometimes passionate from the start.Walking up five flights of stairs with a heavy suitcase sucks balls, no matter what anyone says. Having to walk up and down 5 flights of steps just to run out and grab a cup of coffee or a small breakfast or something at the store, that also sucks. Second or third floor is the target, I agree. That way even f the elevator doesn't exist, or it is broken, it still is not too bad.

I had an apartment on the first / ground floor in Berlin last year. It was a super-cool apartment, a corner apartment that was probably first a corner store and then was converted. High ceilings, lots of style. Unfortunately the gal I had staying with me overnight was a little loud, so I am sure people walking by heard all of the festivities.


The usual "hooker's jealousy" I find Ukrainian girls behavior quite similar to Latinas. Girls in Costa Rica may fuck left and right, and then throw a conniption fit if after having her for one hour, next day you attempt to chat with her competition. The explanation is simple: they are fighting for resources, - for mongers' money.100% agree. Just as crazy as Latina chicks. The girl who started leaving comments on my Mamba profile pics only got pissed when I politely said to her that I was looking for something different that evening. She was mid to late 20's and I said I was looking for 18-22 years old. Well, that was dumb of me, for sure -- never tell a woman, even awoman, that she is too old for you. She wrote that I was a "drocer. " I do not know what that means, and honestly, don't care. Chicks were just pissed that I didn't pick them. Oh well.


There's some industry downtown, but really not that much. Did you get away from downtown visiting some of the girls, or they mostly came to your place near Maidan?I walked up into Old Town Kiev, then quickly through the Christmas market. I wanted to spend the whole next day in the Christmas market but unfortunately, that first day I arrived and walked through was the LST day of the market. Bummer. I was happy I got to spend some time walking around Maidan. There aren't many times one has the opportunity to walk through such a historic spot, and I watched a lot of the 2014 Ukrainian revolution on TV as it was happening. To watch it, and then walk through the square, is quite powerful.

I am sure it is quite a nice city. It's not the worst city I have been in, by far. That award might have to go to Frankfurt, which absolutely sucks as a city and if it wasn't for the FKKs there would be zero reason to go there. Frankfurt is the "Baltimore of Europe," I often say. Kiev ranks much higher than that, and it's not just because the women are beautiful and f--k like it was their last lay on earth.


Under 800 USD for 4 nights and leaving satisfied. Not bad at all, even considering travel and lodging expenses. You also requested slightly extended set of services. Good luck doing it in any of the developed countries for that much.

Realistic expectations, good prep, and proper attitude resulting in happy customer.

Can you compare your mongering experience to any other destinations?

Best regards!The good thing about Kiev, there was nothing I was asking for that shocked any of the girls. In fact, if I wanted see-m on face, some would say "no, but in mouth is OK. " Or sometimes it was the reverse -- can I see-m in mouth? No, but you can on face. So yeah, 800 USD for four nights plus lodging and meals, which were both very inexpensive, I would say Kiev gives you a LOT for your money, in both ladies and in food / beer / lodging, etc.

How does it compare? That's a good question. I've been to Prague, Budapest, Warsaw, Kiev, Bratislava, London, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Berlin, Moscow, Toronto, Montreal, lots of cities in the US, Dominican Republic, Shanghai. And much of my opinion is based on a combination of the women AND the city itself. Prague and Budapest are both some of my favorite cities, but I am not going to pay anywhere near the same price there for what I got in Kiev. I could have easily had most of the girls for $200-$250 for a full night in Kiev. So while you can easily get a poke from a really hot girl in Prague or Budapest for $100-$125, it's for an hour, not two hours. A 24 hour session in Prague will cost you $750-$900, and in Kiev I bet that would be, at most, $400. Kiev provides value, and ease, that many other cities simply cannot beat, and that alone makes it go much higher on my list. In my opinion it is a top 5 in Europe, for sure.

Will I return? Maybe. But I think my next trip is to spend a few days in Lviv.

[Cremate]

I went there only for four days.

First day we had a massage with my friend. Not sure if I can give a number. So it was on St. Volodymerska. Usually if you contact with them in whatsapp or calling them, they make you sure you find the place. Most of the taxi drivers know the places of brothels and massage parlors.

So we entered the place, there were plenty girls and the person who introduced the girls made us choose very fast. I didn't like her attitude. 8-9 girls 1-2 were okeyish.

I picked a girl 1500 uah including touching kissing and shower with her. 900 uah you cannot touch and kiss and no shower afterwards. I was almost fucking her, but the massage was not so good because she was a bit thin.

Tip: Just give 900 uah and in the middle of the massage, offer a nice massage to her and play your game if she likes you, you can get lucky it happened to my friend. Also pick a strong girl so you would have also good massage, full body relaxation. They don't care if you come early I usually come twice.

Second day, I visited an apartment. I found the ad on those websites like relaxkiev etc. Most of the photos are fake or very well taken that you cannot understand from there. I picked a young girl she was 21. We had an amazing time with her, just chemistry worked out quite well.

Tip: Just ask for the lowest price girls, then Mama will send those girls that are not pretty. Don't get satisfied and talk with her somehow again and ask her if she has girls with higher price.

Tip 2: Guys, the prices for girls are quite expensive. If you really want to fuck a 7-8 out of 10 you should give at least 2000- 2500 uah. I usually go around 1300-1500 and they were not so good.

Third day, another visiting an apartment, but this time I didn't like it at all.

Tip: Don't take the girl who is talkative during picking the girls.

We also visited a strip club, but again it was fucking expensive to get a lap dance. I just want to have a simple one. Here they do naked and you are paying 20 euros for 6 minutes or so.

For tourist attraction, I would suggest Chernobyl Museum and check free walking tours in the city. Check also restaurants around Podil area. They are quite good.

BTW, Tinder was not so good for me I had some girls there but Bumble has more hits and girls are more talkative there.

Cheers.

[PublicInterest]

Have done research; but thought I'the ask for some last minute advice.

1. Does it really start / finish with e* vc or are ANY of the other sights reliable (relaxkiev; other?

2. I seem to have managed to get contacts from Mamba; a few seem genuine, but the vast majority seem to be fake profiles.

3. Is there consensus on favorite strip club?

4. Favorite restaurant for date? BAU? SHO?

5 Favorite pickup bar?

6. Favorite spa?

[PhotoSlider]

Prior to my trip I tried Russian. When I switched to Ukrainian I got more responses, and even though most conversations eventually switched to basic English, the Ukrainian did help open the door in the beginning. I would say it got me more opportunities, yes.Very interesting. I should totally switch to Ukrainian then.

The thing is, we are approaching the time, when girls that study or studied at their Universities in Ukrainian, and now also had only Ukrainian in their high school, middle and elementary. Maybe there's a better chance to pass for a local, at least in the beginning.

Being a native Russian speaker, and intermediate in Ukrainian, I do Google translator from Russian into Ukrainian. It does a better job than from English, because English has totally different linguistics.


Walking up five flights of stairs with a heavy suitcase sucks balls, no matter what anyone says.For airport rides up and down with heavy suitcases I engage my reliable cab driver.


100% agree. Just as crazy as Latina chicks. The girl who started leaving comments on my Mamba profile pics only got pissed when I politely said to her that I was looking for something different that evening. She was mid to late 20's and I said I was looking for 18-22 years old. Well, that was dumb of me, for sure -- never tell a woman, even awoman, that she is too old for you. She wrote that I was a "drocer. " I do not know what that means, and honestly, don't care. Chicks were just pissed that I didn't pick them. Oh well.Hooker's slang:

Drochit' - to masturbate, to jerk off.

Drocher -- masturbator. Designates a person who calls, talks to the girls, and never orders. Happens a lot in Kiev. Girls block those. Except you ordered her. Well. Jaded hookers use whatever means are available to them.


Frankfurt is the "Baltimore of Europe," I often say. Kiev ranks much higher than that, and it's not just because the women are beautiful and f--k like it was their last lay on earth.Indeed some of them do!


How does it compare? That's a good question. I've been to Prague, Budapest, Warsaw, Kiev, Bratislava, London, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Berlin, Moscow, Toronto, Montreal, lots of cities in the US, Dominican Republic, Shanghai. And much of my opinion is based on a combination of the women AND the city itself. Prague and Budapest are both some of my favorite cities, but I am not going to pay anywhere near the same price there for what I got in Kiev. I could have easily had most of the girls for $200-$250 for a full night in Kiev. So while you can easily get a poke from a really hot girl in Prague or Budapest for $100-$125, it's for an hour, not two hours. A 24 hour session in Prague will cost you $750-$900, and in Kiev I bet that would be, at most, $400. Kiev provides value, and ease, that many other cities simply cannot beat, and that alone makes it go much higher on my list. In my opinion it is a top 5 in Europe, for sure.Solid detailed unbiased analysis. Thanks for answering my question without meaningless emotion.


Will I return? Maybe. But I think my next trip is to spend a few days in Lviv.AFAIK Lviv is a great city for a couple of days of sight seeing, and totally useless for our hobby.

[ASUDevil1]

AFAIK Lviv is a great city for a couple of days of sight seeing, and totally useless for our hobby.Indeed, that is what my research is leading me to conclude.

I forgot to add one thing about my opinion on Kiev. For one thing, I am already wanting to go back, so that should say something about it being a desirable location.

Kiev is a city that I think one needs to experience twice. Go there once to get a good idea on how the hobby operates there. You can read the forums all you want, but nothing gives you a sense of things like the actual battle experience. Then, when you go back the second time, you have a much higher level of confidence, you know what works and what doesn't -- what to say, who to contact, how to operate basically. When I do return (not "if," it is "when") I will be much more confident and probably have an even better time.

[Vocker]

Date of session: Thursday January.

Location: Boss Agency, Kiev.

Name: Sonya.

Face: 9.

Body: 8.

Skill: 8.

Service: 9.

Estimated age of the girl and / or actual age: 19.

Price: 1300 UAH / 1 hour.

Language: Russian.

Pros: Good service and perfect body.

Cons: You need to pay a big amount for every service.

I've been in Kiev for 1 month, decided to relax with somebody.

Quick search in Google lead me to a local escort agency, small talk with operator and I went to an address.

Brothel locates in 4-room flat, before we started I had to choose from 5 girls, some of them were old, some young, my choice was big-breast Sonya.

We went to a shower, I wasn't allowed to wash her.

After shower she started doing blowjob, it was very good, as I love it, sloppy and hands free.

Then we had sex. She took over, and was on me.

There were some great moves from here, which I didn't expect, so I came pretty quickly.

When laying relaxed together after the he we had some small talk and she told me she just started working here for 3 months after she had been a pole dancer in a club for more then 2 years.

This explains her good moves.

[PhotoSlider]

Kiev is a city that I think one needs to experience twice. Go there once to get a good idea on how the hobby operates there. You can read the forums all you want, but nothing gives you a sense of things like the actual battle experience. Then, when you go back the second time, you have a much higher level of confidence, you know what works and what doesn't -- what to say, who to contact, how to operate basically. When I do return (not "if," it is "when") I will be much more confident and probably have an even better time.Yes, it is very addictive.

Why experience Kiev only twice? It keeps changing, but never stops surprising me with great girls.

And yes, reading Forums, emails, chats is just a lifeless reflection in the mirror. Getting real action with Ukrainian females in flesh and blood is the ultimate truth.

[PublicInterest]

Is there a phone number or website for this agency. Web search just comes up with an obscure photo on pu&terlink. Co. Uk. Is that the one? Thanks!


Date of session: Thursday January.

Location: Boss Agency, Kiev.

Name: Sonya.

Face: 9.

Body: 8.

Skill: 8.

Service: 9.

Estimated age of the girl and / or actual age: 19.

Price: 1300 UAH / 1 hour.

Language: Russian.

Pros: Good service and perfect body.

Cons: You need to pay a big amount for every service.

I've been in Kiev for 1 month, decided to relax with somebody..

[PublicInterest]

Hi everyone,

This is not a trip report per se, but rather, a pre-trip report. In essence, I'm trying to do the legwork before hand and could use some last minute advice on what I can do increase the odds of a successful trip.

Mamba: I've been reviewing the site for last 7 days and see to have collected a list of contacts of about 10 contacts. But I'm still a little dubious of this approach. Some have photos blurred and won't unlock them, the ones that do share look like hardened "tattooed" up, long in the biz types. One or two seem more "normal" and are probably freelancers or more occasional practitioners. I'll try luck here. But again, it's sight unseen.

E* vc: this seems like a viable backup plan, though it's clear that they price / value ratio is potentially a bit off.

I contacted a few contacts via Telegram; one directed me to iwa*t. Biz but this just looks like a collection of fake pics. But does anyone have any experience with agency who can at least vouch for the quality of what they do send over?

Can anyone recommend which bars have the highest chance of success re Pro pick-up? (Caribbean, Shooters, Skybar, Alchemist, etc?

Any other agencies or Prague-style privats worth contacting?

[Member #4722]

Hi everyone,

This is not a trip report per se, but rather, a pre-trip report. In essence, I'm trying to do the legwork before hand and could use some last minute advice on what I can do increase the odds of a successful trip.

Mamba: I've been reviewing the site for last 7 days and see to have collected a list of contacts of about 10 contacts. But I'm still a little dubious of this approach. Some have photos blurred and won't unlock them, the ones that do share look like hardened "tattooed" up, long in the biz types. One or two seem more "normal" and are probably freelancers or more occasional practitioners. I'll try luck here. But again, it's sight unseen.

E* vc: this seems like a viable backup plan, though it's clear that they price / value ratio is potentially a bit off.

I contacted a few contacts via Telegram; one directed me to iwa*t. Biz but this just looks like a collection of fake pics. But does anyone have any experience with agency who can at least vouch for the quality of what they do send over?

Can anyone recommend which bars have the highest chance of success re Pro pick-up? (Caribbean, Shooters, Skybar, Alchemist, etc?

Any other agencies or Prague-style privats worth contacting?10 contacts on Mamba isn't nearly enough. You will probably want twice that. I save contacts from there for at least a month and email 50+ ladies before my trip to get a list of about 10 or so solid possible dates. Then I chose the best ones (good communication, matching pics on WhatsApp). Caribbean Club is my go to. I haven't even bothered with Shooters my last two trips since I never had any luck there and the staff is always rude.

[Riina]

Location: Boss Agency, Kiev.A link would help.

[Vocker]

[Telephone Number deleted by Admin]

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited or deleted to remove personal telephone numbers. Please do not post personal telephone numbers in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you for this information directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. Thanks!

[Bill1963]

Hey guys,

I been to Kiev and Odessa before and loved it.

I been thinking of renting and possibly eventually buying a condo in Kiev.

I been playing with sugarbabies off seeking arrangements mostly the last 4 yrs in North America.

I used to monger a lot (fucked over 1000 pros) but its not my style anymore.

Even though the sugar daddy life is more expensive and time consuming to get laid, I enjoy it much more.

What websites in Ukraine can I use to meet very young ladies 18 to 25 yrs old to sponsor and have ongoing short term 1 to 3 month arrangements.

I found here in North America once the sugar baby gets too comfortable with you, they get more greedy and expect more, and want you to solve all their problems especially when they realize I have much more money than them (its funny how women love to suck up money like a vacuum cleaner and spend, and never think of tomorrow), plus I get bored of a woman after a few months anyways.

BUT The first 10 fucks can be epic.

Then time to dump and find another.

I like 2 to 4 sugarbabies at a time.

So looking for websites where I can find these young girls before they become pros.

I don't fuck professionals anymore.

[Riina]

I like 2 to 4 sugarbabies at a time.

So looking for websites where I can find these young girls before they become pros.

I don't fuck professionals anymore.I can tell you SA is worthless in Ukraine. If I moved to Kiev, I would search out rubs by college hotties.

[Bill1963]

I can tell you SA is worthless in Ukraine. If I moved to Kiev, I would search out rubs by college hotties.What do you mean by rubs?

And I know SA is garbage in Ukr.

Any website with 1000's of young girls looking for sponsors?

When I was there I also found the women extremely flirty and responsive to me.

So I will be hitting on girls everywhere.

[Kozerog]

Any website with 1000's of young girls looking for sponsors?

When I was there I also found the women extremely flirty and responsive to me.

So I will be hitting on girls everywhere.
Not 1000's, but Mamba has some. Pay for the premium version (like $5/month) to enable advanced features: set "willing to be sponsor" tag, search for "seeking sponsor" tag.

But meeting girls in real life is much better.

Or you can convert a professional into a sort of sugar baby by simply seeing her regularly, which is what I did.

[Riina]

What do you mean by rubs?.Erotic massage wherever you can find it.


Any website with 1000's of young girls looking for sponsors?
Ukrainian girls have a worldwide market. Any new cutie that creates a profile will have hundreds of messages daily. Grab your track pants and hunt down a sweet thing that wants to give you a hand job. That's what I did in my US city with some success.


When I was there I also found the women extremely flirty and responsive to me.
You sure you were in Ukraine?


So I will be hitting on girls everywhere.That's the attitude amigo.

[AntonySun1996]

I did once meet a girl from Seeking.com in Kiev. Success at first attempt. She was reasonably attractive. Her appearance matched her photos, with small variances. We did a G&M in a restaurant, agreed upon a ppm of 200 usd, and went to a hotel room to have some fun. This didn't lead to a long term sugar relationship though, as I already had a girlfriend and I realized that I still preferred my own girl.

This experience however gave me the impression that there are fewer fake profiles on Seeking than on other sites like mamba. I could be wrong, of course, since my sample size was too small. Again, just my personal experience. Others have encountered fakes from that site. There are even pretentious women who expect you to pay them for spending time with you (without having sex). Just maintain your professional skepticism and be prepared for all sorts of situations. And don't get frustrated by unpleasant experiences. You have to kiss a thousand toads to find a princess. Finding a gem in Kiev requires p.

[Riina]

I recently mentioned a you tube guy that lives in Ukraine. I watched a recent video where he talks about two 19 year olds that shared deeply personal shit with him. There's only one way teens would open up like that to a grown up man.

[Riina]

I did once meet a girl from Seeking.com in Kiev. Success at first attempt. She was reasonably attractive. Her appearance matched her photos, with small variances. We did a G&M in a restaurant, agreed upon a ppm of 200 usd, and went to a hotel room to have some fun. This didn't lead to a long term sugar relationship though, as I already had a girlfriend and I realized that I still preferred my own girl.

This experience however gave me the impression that there are fewer fake profiles on Seeking than on other sites like mamba. I could be wrong, of course, since my sample size was too small. Again, just my personal experience. Others have encountered fakes from that site. There are even pretentious women who expect you to pay them for spending time with you (without having sex). Just maintain your professional skepticism and be prepared for all sorts of situations. And don't get frustrated by unpleasant experiences. You have to kiss a thousand toads to find a princess. Finding a gem in Kiev requires p.SA can be a real goldmine for the 30 something that understands "help". If you're 50 and looking for a college girl, hit the streets.

[PhotoSlider]

You have to kiss a thousand toads to find a princess. Finding a gem in Kiev requires p.What if I prefer kissing no less than an 8? And not a thousand, but only a few dozen per visit.

Rhetoric question. Toads shouldn't be squashed, simply not allowed to enter my premises.

[James 006]

I tried Tinder last evening. I got a lot of matches from really hot girls, but they all answer with one world in Russian. Not Ukraenian. Is looks like it's a company who manage all this (fake) girls?

Someone with positive experience with Tinder in Kiev lately?

Last year my Tinder was working fine. But not now.


I did once meet a girl from Seeking.com in Kiev. Success at first attempt. She was reasonably attractive. Her appearance matched her photos, with small variances. We did a G&M in a restaurant, agreed upon a ppm of 200 usd, and went to a hotel room to have some fun. This didn't lead to a long term sugar relationship though, as I already had a girlfriend and I realized that I still preferred my own girl.

This experience however gave me the impression that there are fewer fake profiles on Seeking than on other sites like mamba. I could be wrong, of course, since my sample size was too small. Again, just my personal experience. Others have encountered fakes from that site. There are even pretentious women who expect you to pay them for spending time with you (without having sex). Just maintain your professional skepticism and be prepared for all sorts of situations. And don't get frustrated by unpleasant experiences. You have to kiss a thousand toads to find a princess. Finding a gem in Kiev requires p.

[AntonySun1996]

What if I prefer kissing no less than an 8? And not a thousand, but only a few dozen per visit.

Rhetoric question. Toads shouldn't be squashed, simply not allowed to enter my premises.That's why Meet & Greet (the platonic date with your potential sugar baby when you meet for the first time) is a common practice for sugar daddies. That way you could filter out many (but unfortunately not all) toads before you have to kiss her. You just have to pay for the dinner.

Where I come from, the presence of the seeking site incurred public anger over the "immorality" of sugar relationships, and the government threatened to block the site. Now I can get access to the site, but there is only 20-ish girl searchable in my region. The site seem to be quite popular in Kiev or Moscow though, with thousands of girls waiting for some sugar. I get a lot of messages on weekends. I don't have intention to meet new girls at the moment, but I still enjoy window shopping on the site sometimes.

[AntonySun1996]

I tried Tinder last evening. I got a lot of matches from really hot girls, but they all answer with one world in Russian. Not Ukraenian. Is looks like it's a company who manage all this (fake) girls?

Someone with positive experience with Tinder in Kiev lately?

Last year my Tinder was working fine. But not now.One of the problems of mongering with tinder is the difficulty of differentiating between working girls and civilians. Sometimes when you think your match is just a hot civilian girl, it turns out that she is a working girl with fake photos. Sometimes the opposite is true, and the civilian feels insulted by your money offer.

[Riina]

I don't fuck professionals anymore.There's a lot of reasons as to why guys can walk away from meeting pros. But in my case, I've completely addicted myself to open up the minds of Ukraine college cuties. Once you learn how to act and talk to them, I don't think it's possible to walk away.

[PhotoSlider]

...I found here in North America once the sugar baby gets too comfortable with you, they get more greedy and expect more, and want you to solve all their problems especially when they realize I have much more money than them (its funny how women love to suck up money like a vacuum cleaner and spend, and never think of tomorrow)If sugar babies were more savvy with their (our) money, they wouldn't need to milk us as frequently by providing access to their commodities. So, their spending habits are a blessing in disguise. Unless, of course, one of them becomes too demanding. Then one door gets open for exit, and few more are open for entrance.


plus I get bored of a woman after a few months anyways.

BUT The first 10 fucks can be epic.Ditto!


Then time to dump and find another.

I like 2 to 4 sugar babies at a time.Smart sugar babies keep the same ratio. Servicing a rolling carousel of 2 to 4 sponsors.

More than 4 becomes a scheduling challenge. The key is to keep the pool updated in a timely manner, troops moral high and manners proper.

[DramaFree11]

I did once meet a girl from Seeking.com in Kiev. Success at first attempt. She was reasonably attractive. Her appearance matched her photos, with small variances. We did a G&M in a restaurant, agreed upon a ppm of 200 usd, and went to a hotel room to have some fun. This didn't lead to a long term sugar relationship though, as I already had a girlfriend and I realized that I still preferred my own girl.

This experience however gave me the impression that there are fewer fake profiles on Seeking than on other sites like mamba. I could be wrong, of course, since my sample size was too small. Again, just my personal experience. Others have encountered fakes from that site. There are even pretentious women who expect you to pay them for spending time with you (without having sex). Just maintain your professional skepticism and be prepared for all sorts of situations. And don't get frustrated by unpleasant experiences. You have to kiss a thousand toads to find a princess. Finding a gem in Kiev requires p.Guys,

I think SA is great, I am using it a lot in the States, since I am not able to travel as much now. Making way more money, but no time to travel. Lets' be clear about something, $200 in Kiev is way too much. $150 should be max and that is probably too much for the quality of girls there now. You can read my other reports, at $200 you can go to other destinations, in Europe, Mexico, Europe, you can have real models, not the fake ones in Kiev that are a 6. Your money and time, but be smart.

[Arkiloko]

I've never been in to it.

How much do you invest in sponsoring?

How does it work?

[Riina]

How much do you invest in sponsoring?Here's my rule of thumb. Whatever she's worth as an hour of escort, that amount weekly. The key is the consistency. Kinda like potty training a puppy, got to keep the treats coming.

[AntonySun1996]

I've never been in to it.

How much do you invest in sponsoring?

How does it work?There are generally two ways of sponsoring.

1. Pay per meet (PPM).

2. Monthly allowance.

PPM is more like calling an escort than sugaring. If you intend to meet your sugar baby / sugar girlfriend frequently, monthly allowances will reduce your costs. However, when you are seeing a new sugar baby, PPM would be recommended until you build a mutual trust.

[Kozerog]

Here's my rule of thumb. Whatever she's worth as an hour of escort, that amount weekly.
Sp you're recommending like 2000 uah or $80 per week, presumably for one or two meetings per week, each lasting several hours. Thus will work, especially if it's 52 weeks/year. This is typical of what local married men in their 40's pay, guys who want a young mistress because they are bored with the wife. But it's not a high rate, so don't be surprised if the girl trades up. If you want to lock the girl down, go higher.

Also, if the girl detects that you can easily afford to pay much more (and she will suspect foreigners can pay more), she will be annoyed by your perceived cheapness. In the business world, fact that a client is rich does not mean I can double my usual rates. However, women have their own logic which is different from normal business logic. So if you want to keep costs down, don't flaunt your wealth.


The key is the consistency. Kinda like potty training a puppy, got to keep the treats coming.
Consistency is indeed very powerful, but it has to be demonstrated, not just promised. I would suggest a higher initial rate, and more frequent meetings initially, but warn her that amount will eventually be reduced to $80 because you have a limited budget. So like $160 or even $240/week initially, for 3 or more meetings. This is much more tempting than $80, in case she is hesitant. Once she is hooked, you can reduce to $80/week with less frequent meetings.

[AntonySun1996]

Guys,

I think SA is great, I am using it a lot in the States, since I am not able to travel as much now. Making way more money, but no time to travel. Lets' be clear about something, $200 in Kiev is way too much. $150 should be max and that is probably too much for the quality of girls there now. You can read my other reports, at $200 you can go to other destinations, in Europe, Mexico, Europe, you can have real models, not the fake ones in Kiev that are a 6. Your money and time, but be smart.I know $200 was too high for that particular girl, but that was my first SA date and the girl appeared very educated during the dinner date and I liked her, so I decided to be nice. She was good in bed, but her body was not exactly my type, and her halitosis was a huge turn-off.

She told me she used to have a sugar boyfriend in Europe and traveled there a lot to meet him. Her English was awesome, close to native level, which made me think she must have spent a lot of time in the States as well.

I get matches with really hot girls on Seeking from time to time when I set my location to Kiev or, in particular, Moscow. I haven't got the opportunity to verify what percent of these profiles was actually legit, though, but I surely will as long as I get my ass to Moscow. I will not meet new sugar girlfriend in Kiev though, as my current Kiev girlfriend would get upset if she finds out.

I planned to visit Kiev and Moscow this month, but had to postpone my trip due to the coronavirus situation. My city is currently semi-blocked. Heck, I would already be Kyiv now if the government didn't lie about the disease in the start. A modern day Chernobyl.

Will probably go there later this month is situation turns better. Now all I can do is sitting at home, jerking off, while trying to get as many contacts as possible from the site.

[Esatikkanen]

It seems like the "looking for a sponsor" option is gone. I have tried to search with this is as a new tag and nothing comes up. I don't even see women I started chatting with who used to have "looking for a sponsor" and they don't show up in searches even though I have our messages and they are still on mamba and active.

Any ideas how to search for girls in this "new" mamba?

[Misterxxx]

It seems like the "looking for a sponsor" option is gone. I have tried to search with this is as a new tag and nothing comes up. I don't even see women I started chatting with who used to have "looking for a sponsor" and they don't show up in searches even though I have our messages and they are still on mamba and active.

Any ideas how to search for girls in this "new" mamba?Yes changes. Now you can write your own tags for the search option.

There is only one problem. If you want to set tags with sponsor and sex topics, the system will try to set them in your language. Change the language to cyrillic and write the tags in cyrillic language. And you will find a lot of girls with sex and sponsor tags.

[Bobybav]

Yes changes. Now you can write your own tags for the search option.

There is only one problem. If you want to set tags with sponsor and sex topics, the system will try to set them in your language. Change the language to cyrillic and write the tags in cyrillic language. And you will find a lot of girls with sex and sponsor tags.Hi Misterxxx and thank you for your tip.

I tried to write the tag in Cyrillic, and it doesn't work.

[Misterxxx]

Hi Misterxxx and thank you for your tip.

I tried to write the tag in Cyrillic, and it doesn't work.You have to change the language in your account, too. And use google translate to see the page (if you don't understand the russian / ukrainian language).

It works (for me and in my account).

[VictorHugo99]

Hi Y69,

I am not an expert on Eastern Europe, due to the difficulty in language.

But if you work on a pool of possible girls before reaching, like 5 girls per day, through the help of Google translation, you should be 1 ble to hit at least 2 girls per day.

For me, the best places are Germany and Spain.

UK is just too expensive.

For Belgium and Holland, it's pretty commercial.

I'm actually quite a sucker for romance time, so I don't really mind having a few sessions which sucks, with fat girls appearing instead of a beauty. I still try to have a good time, just shorter to cut my losses.

I still go for Tinder, DIA and other local internet options, as it is part of the fun for a holiday trip.

Kiev was actually fantastic for me, but I am not going for model bodies. I was able to connect with great "bed activités performers", spend the day and have meals with them in Kiev, however not able to speak to them in real time. (which was a shame).

Germany for me was straight forward and clear.

Hope this helps.

Vic.


During the cold war things were easier for men in these areas I only know the former satellite states. But still Latinas are gentle loving and most important shaved and clean which is a factor for all the pussy eaters here.

[Abrovie]

Any tips for Kiev? I'm on Mamba, but the site is so weird. I don't understand how search works. And I got blocked a couple of days ago. What should I do? If anybody have some profiles for me, that would be great.

Yeah, I just registered here for this post, because it's getting so hard. I don't understand it. I hope somebody can help me. I don't want to be blocked again.

[VictorHugo99]

Hi friends,

I checked https://relaxkiev.com/eng/.

I went for the round older ladies as I realized that thin ones would not do:

GFE.

DFK.

BBBJ.

Bareback sex.

Bareback Anal.

I had a 30+ lady, did 2 times in the room and spent the day touring Kiev as I gave her a good tip. 200 UAH.

She cost 800 UAH, so 30 Euros besides tips.

That is not enough for a hand job in Paris where I am. !

Don't bother to verify the photo of the lady. It will not be the same person. Either you like her enough, or just get someone else, there's always 3-4 at the place.

That's just me. I had a good time with an older blondy, great service even though we could not speak the same language. I spent some time with her leaning to read some Ukrainian. Enjoying the sights of beautiful Kiev.

Thank you Google translator.

Enjoy yourselves,

Vic.

[Abrovie]

Thanks VictorHugo99. I will check that.

Anybody have tips for massage salons? There are some, and I saw that the topless club is closed. Anybody have any good recommendations? Thanks.

[NormalAsianKid]

Hi everyone. This will be my first time visiting Europe and I'm hoping it's going to be a good trip. I've been mongering in Asia and South America before but one of my contacts from Ukraine convinced me to go visit her so I decided to do a trip around Eastern Europe. I've read the forums a bit now and I think I'm going to check out mamba and some massage places and Caribbean club.

I was wondering if there were any actual brothels or casas I could check out that have multiple girls. Or maybe a street scene? Any opportunities to meet people in real life?

I'll be there for a couple weekends in March. If anyone wants to meet up, let me know and I'll buy us a couple rounds of drinks for some tips. Also feel free to pm me if you have any advice or want to trade contacts.

[VictorHugo99]

Hi NAK,

Refer back a few post. You will find your answers.

Victor.


Hi everyone. This will be my first time visiting Europe and I'm hoping it's going to be a good trip. I've been mongering in Asia and South America before but one of my contacts from Ukraine convinced me to go visit her so I decided to do a trip around Eastern Europe. I've read the forums a bit now and I think I'm going to check out mamba and some massage places and Caribbean club.

I was wondering if there were any actual brothels or casas I could check out that have multiple girls. Or maybe a street scene? Any opportunities to meet people in real life?

I'll be there for a couple weekends in March. If anyone wants to meet up, let me know and I'll buy us a couple rounds of drinks for some tips. Also feel free to pm me if you have any advice or want to trade contacts.

[YummyPL]

Is the Coronavirus affecting the number of people traveling to Kiev yet? I understand when the bird flu hit Kiev was a ghost town.

[Tomster99]

Is the Coronavirus affecting the number of people traveling to Kiev yet? I understand when the bird flu hit Kiev was a ghost town.I am in Kiev at the moment. Absolutely no influence here in the city.

Only thing is: fever measures at airport and airport officials are wearing facemasks for precaution.

Everyone in Kiev is currently not taking the risk serious and rather making fun of it. But once cases pop up here, you can bet the reaction of public could rather be massive.

[Riina]

Is the Coronavirus affecting the number of people traveling to Kiev yet? I understand when the bird flu hit Kiev was a ghost town.I would not travel to a country with bad healthcare.

[Riina]

I am in Kiev at the moment. Absolutely no influence here in the city.Kiev will be a ghost town when the first case of community spread is confirmed.

[YummyPL]

I would not travel to a country with bad healthcare.Well, I'm going for work. I don't have much choice. But I am also not too worried about it. With fear there is opportunity.

[PhotoSlider]

I would not travel to a country with bad healthcare.I am of an opinion that healthcare in Kiev for me personally is better than in US.

[CastOnThis]

I am of an opinion that healthcare in Kiev for me personally is better than in US.That's because you pay for top doctor and institution in Kiev that most people in Ukraine cannot afford. While if you paid the same amount in the states, they would just laugh at you and you would be treated by mediocre healthcare staff.

[Riina]

I am of an opinion that healthcare in Kiev for me personally is better than in US.That's just not true if you fall ill to a real problem. I'm just saying to wait for warmer weather and better news. Foreigners can expect the respect of a buck tooth idiots if they show up to a Ukrainian hospital with scary symptoms.

[PhotoSlider]

That's because you pay for top doctor and institution in Kiev that most people in Ukraine cannot afford. While if you paid the same amount in the states, they would just laugh at you and you would be treated by mediocre healthcare staff.Precisely! Few more healthcare options are available in US:

1. Health Management Organization / Insurance or even primary care physician may deny the treatment because it is outside of their guidelines / cost structure.

2. Become a rock star, like Keith Richards, and pay exorbitant amounts to private doctors and clinics, where the best care is available. Except, as we know, Michael Jackson has died in the hands of those. So did Chris Cornell. And many others.

[PhotoSlider]

That's just not true if you fall ill to a real problem. I'm just saying to wait for warmer weather and better news. Foreigners can expect the respect of a buck tooth idiots if they show up to a Ukrainian hospital with scary symptoms.Yes and no. Going to public hospital with Corona symptoms may indeed result in a great adventure! And a newbie considering a visit Kiev for few days perhaps better should stay away for now, to see how it plays out. Yesterday there was a first officially recognized case in Chernovcy. There must be more, as travel with Europe is strong.

In that respect Riina is definitely right.

Still, I have been treated with real problems in Kiev. I have received not only much more affordable, but also more professional wholistic care, way better than in US under corporate umbrella. Certain chronic issues were not treated in US for many years after repeated attempts. Urology, dermatology, etc.

I certainly wouldn't show up at the public city hospital, especially if the system gets overwhelmed. On the other hand private clinics in Kiev, as CastOnThis pointed out, serve me personally better than in US. I travel to Kiev since 1986, and since 2016 regularly use few private clinics for anything, ranging from proactive diagnostics to more serious ailments.

For surgeries though, I would still prefer US. For any dental emergency in Kiev I would only go to the dentist after referral from a solid source. Did that as well. In rare specific cases orthodontists (bite experts) in Kiev were better educated than in US. Sure there are many charlatans, that can not only do poor job, but also infect with hepatitis or god knows what. One of my fired GFs had paid to cosmetic surgery for nothing. She looks OK, but after paying few thousand dollars to a part time undertaker, that she found on Internet, the desired result was not achieved. So I do not go at random.

The level of Kiev healthcare is dictated by amount of money available in multi-million people megapolis, tradition of health care in Kiev in particular, and availability of visa free travel to outside clinics for treatment of customers and education of staff.

There is no doubt there are medical scams, collusion and corruption. Few weeks ago cosmetic surgeon was shot dead downtown Kiev by hired killer to make a point about certain business practices by his parents. Family moved from Donetsk, where his industrious mom laid off number of employees. And it came back. Both perpetrators have been arrested, but the doctor has checked out forever.

That is why I use my Kiev connections, going to specific trusted clinics and specialists.

The other serious problem in Ukraine. Fake counterfeit medication, all over!

But I like direct access to anything: treatment, most medication, diagnostic tests, specific specialists.

Anyway, it's a matter of perception. For some it is convenient to believe that Ukraine is inferior in everything. My belief is that US healthcare objectives are making money, long term health management and milking instead of cure, patching of symptoms, waiting out to see if ailment disappears on its own, strong reliance on pharmaceutical miracles, control of information flow, and elimination of potential liability. Healthcare in Kiev is slowly and inevitably moving in that direction too due to business drivers, but still, the main objective is to **cure** the patient.

This discussion is somewhat similar to mongering. I think that for me personally Kiev has the best girls, and many of them are acting sincere enough while we are together. Over the years, just like with doctors, I built a network of regulars, that are happy to meet. 4 of them spoke to me remotely today. Someone else may say that they are all ugly scammers and cannot be trusted. Matter of perception. Nothing personal.

[DramaFree11]

Yes and no. Going to public hospital with Corona symptoms may indeed result in a great adventure! And a newbie considering a visit Kiev for few days perhaps better should stay away for now, to see how it plays out. Yesterday there was a first officially recognized case in Chernovcy. There must be more, as travel with Europe is strong.

In that respect Riina is definitely right.

Still, I have been treated with real problems in Kiev. I have received not only much more affordable, but also more professional wholistic care, way better than in US under corporate umbrella. Certain chronic issues were not treated in US for many years after repeated attempts. Urology, dermatology, etc.

I certainly wouldn't show up at the public city hospital, especially if the system gets overwhelmed. On the other hand private clinics in Kiev, as CastOnThis pointed out, serve me personally better than in US. I travel to Kiev since 1986, and since 2016 regularly use few private clinics for anything, ranging from proactive diagnostics to more serious ailments.

For surgeries though, I would still prefer US. For any dental emergency in Kiev I would only go to the dentist after referral from a solid source. Did that as well. In rare specific cases orthodontists (bite experts) in Kiev were better educated than in US. Sure there are many charlatans, that can not only do poor job, but also infect with hepatitis or god knows what. One of my fired GFs had paid to cosmetic surgery for nothing. She looks OK, but after paying few thousand dollars to a part time undertaker, that she found on Internet, the desired result was not achieved. So I do not go at random.I have to agree with P.S. On this one. I had great experience with doctors and dentist in Kiev. Definitely would try to avoid Surgery there, but as he said there are no issues with the good clinics in Kiev, also he is correct they do incorporate the holistic medicine with traditional medicine, unlike the states.

[Tomster99]

Anyone would know if they are out of business?

Last two times I wanted to go by noone answered the door.

[PhotoSlider]

Anyone would know if they are out of business?

Last two times I wanted to go by noone answered the door.I don't.

Website is up, and has phone + email, but online chat doesn't respond. Maybe Viber or other messenger is available on the number they provide in contacts? Massage parlors in Kiev open and close when they feel like.

[Tomster99]

I don't.

Website is up, and has phone + email, but online chat doesn't respond. Maybe Viber or other messenger is available on the number they provide in contacts? Massage parlors in Kiev open and close when they feel like.Thanks P.S. Yeah. I checked their website and came to the same conclusion. But my phone would say something in Ukrainian if I call. Seems they have been disconnected.

Darn.

[AntonySun1996]

Is the Coronavirus affecting the number of people traveling to Kiev yet? I understand when the bird flu hit Kiev was a ghost town.Yes there seems to be a significant decrease in travellers to Kiev from my observation at Borispil Airport. No long queues at passport control when I arrived there late February.

On the other hand I am a little bit concerned about the potential coronavirus outbreak in Ukraine. It appears to me that the government has done little trying to stop the epidemic. There was no health or temperature check at KBP, and the immigration officer didn't ask me any question regarding my traveling history. This was very different from my experience in Moscow and Minsk airports, where I was required to take health checks by medical teams at the airports because I come from a high-risk country.

There are already multiple confirmed cases in surrounding countries including Russia, Belarus, Romania and Baltic States. There is a high risk of potential outbreak of this disease in Ukraine, considering the number of Ukrainians traveling to EU, and the public lack of awareness of severity of the coronavirus situation. I live in Kiev suburbs with my girlfriend and I have seen literally no one here wearing masks in the streets.

I would suggest to stop meeting random girls for a while if possible. This disease is not a common flu. Its death rate is significantly higher than flu. It keeps mutating quickly. A new study in China finds that the coronavirus can cause irreversible brain damage even if it is eventually cured.

[Koijima]

Yes there seems to be a significant decrease in travellers to Kiev from my observation at Borispil Airport. No long queues at passport control when I arrived there late February.

On the other hand I am a little bit concerned about the potential coronavirus outbreak in Ukraine. It appears to me that the government has done little trying to stop the epidemic. There was no health or temperature check at KBP, and the immigration officer didn't ask me any question regarding my traveling history. This was very different from my experience in Moscow and Minsk airports, where I was required to take health checks by medical teams at the airports because I come from a high-risk country.

There are already multiple confirmed cases in surrounding countries including Russia, Belarus, Romania and Baltic States. There is a high risk of potential outbreak of this disease in Ukraine, considering the number of Ukrainians traveling to EU, and the public lack of awareness of severity of the coronavirus situation. I live in Kiev suburbs with my girlfriend and I have seen literally no one here wearing masks in the streets.

I would suggest to stop meeting random girls for a while if possible. This disease is not a common flu. Its death rate is significantly higher than flu. It keeps mutating quickly. A new study in China finds that the coronavirus can cause irreversible brain damage even if it is eventually cured.When I flew in, they temp checked everyone on the plane. Not sure that qualifies as good government controls.

Given the infection rate if you go out you're vulnerable, no intimate contact needed.

However it looks like the death rate is actually lower since they are catching more people with the disease that only have mild symptoms. Previously, they were only catching the worse cases so the death rate is significantly inflated.

In any case wanted to give my 2 cents and thank all the previous contributions to the forum.

[AntonySun1996]

When I flew in, they temp checked everyone on the plane. Not sure that qualifies as good government controls.Glad to see the government has started to take actions to mitigate the risk of virus outbreak.


However it looks like the death rate is actually lower since they are catching more people with the disease that only have mild symptoms. Previously, they were only catching the worse cases so the death rate is significantly inflated.

In any case wanted to give my 2 cents and thank all the previous contributions to the forum.The global death rate so far is about 3%. It varies depending on the country and age group. Older people are more likely to develop severe symptoms, and death rate in countries with insufficient medical resources could be higher.

Anyway I hope everything could get under control soon.

[Riina]

I'm guessing all expats are wondering how their sweetheart will react in a time of crisis. Get out now if you only have fake friends.

[YummyPL]

When I flew in, they temp checked everyone on the plane. Not sure that qualifies as good government controls.
Welcome to the forum, Koijima!

I am curious where you flew in from and if they do that with all flights.

[Koijima]

Welcome to the forum, Koijima!

I am curious where you flew in from and if they do that with all flights.I flew in from Nuremberg, no idea about the other flights.

[Kozerog]

From what I'm reading, most people in big cities will eventually get infected, though hopefully the virus will soon mutate to be less deadly than the current 3% or whatever. I'm taking few precautions myself to avoid infection, but I am trying to keep strong and healthy so as to fight the infection when I do get it. I am also keeping in mind that, at any moment, I might suddenly get very sick and need to climb into bed and remain there for several weeks. So need to arrange my business affairs to allow this. There's also the risk of everyone around me suddenly getting sick, so that services I depend on might shut down (air travel, in particular), so need to be prepared for that too.

Currently, coronavirus kills or leaves lasting injuries mostly in those over age 40, while mostly leaving younger people unhurt. Since Kyiv has a youngish population, it should be lightly affected if this age selectivity continues true. Mongers are mostly older and thus more vulnerable and of course mongering is a discretionary activity that can be reduced at any time. Thus possibly girls will become desperate for busines once they are reassured that young people are not too vulnerable. Then again, something I've noticed in other crisis situations, is that many people who should be running away instead run towards the crisis, and vice-versa. So conceivable that Kyiv will be flooded with older mongers soon but no girls want to work. I still plan on going there this summer myself.

[AntonySun1996]

So conceivable that Kyiv will be flooded with older mongers soonNot if the coronavirus eventually leads to a global recession. Fewer mongers would have the money to spare.

[Ming69]

Yes there seems to be a significant decrease in travellers to Kiev from my observation at Borispil Airport. No long queues at passport control when I arrived there late February.Are you flying to KBP from a high-risk country?

I was in Kyiv from Feb. 17 - 22 - obviously no checks at that time as it was before the cases in Italy.

But I did notice that when I was fly from Barcelona to the USA on Feb. 26 they did ask many questions about my travels and others. Maybe it's a thing the US mandated.

I spend most of my time with my Ukrainian contact for the 5 days I was in Kyiv and got hooked up with some girls when she was not available. Pick up some contacts for those I like.

I was not aggressive on trying to meet girls given the virus. Definitely did not have the full experience and will go there again.

It's a very beautiful city and a lot cheaper than other EU places without losing quality; younger people will speak some English as they reckon Russian is not the only language they should know.

In terms of quality of the ladies, it's really a thing with personal preference. I really don't see anything too special or outstanding for the most part. Cost will definitely bring me back again.

I do notice that younger girls are covered with tattoos, girls who have done some work are having implants and lip injections. Which is confusing for me as they are better without them.

Was there an age poll on this site? Everybody's talking like "OGs" who's been doing this for decades. Haha.

[AntonySun1996]

Are you flying to KBP from a high-risk country?

I was in Kyiv from Feb. 17 - 22 - obviously no checks at that time as it was before the cases in Italy.

But I did notice that when I was fly from Barcelona to the USA on Feb. 26 they did ask many questions about my travels and others. Maybe it's a thing the US mandated.I am from China, and I guess it falls into the category of high-risk countries. My city is quite far from Hubei Province though, and there were only a few confirmed cases in my province. My cities has been quarantined since late January, most public places were shut down, people were required to stay at home as much as possible, and number of flights and trains to other cities was significantly reduced. So I stayed at home basically doing nothing for weeks before I decided to make a trip to Kiev.

I first flew to Moscow from Shanghai, and stayed there for a few days. We were temp checked on our Aeroflot flight upon arrival. There was a large medical team at Sheremetyevo Airport waiting for us. Got health checked there by the friendly staff, signed some Terms & Conditions, and I was allowed to enter the border. I was luck, because a few days later the Russian government decided to temporarily forbid Chinese citizens to enter Russia on tourist visas.

I came to Kiev on Feb 21 and transferred in Minsk. I was taken extra care of there obviously because of my nationality. I was stopped at passport control before boarding my flight to Kiev, was approached by a medical team. They asked my a lot of questions, checked my documents, tested my temperature, and took some of my saliva and nasal mucus. I barely made it to board my flight. I do not blame them, though. They were very professional and did a great job to protect their country and its people.

The process of entering Ukrainian boarder at Borispil was smooth. No queues, no medical checks, no extra questions.


I was in Kyiv from Feb. 17 - 22 - obviously no checks at that time as it was before the cases in Italy.

But I did notice that when I was fly from Barcelona to the USA on Feb. 26 they did ask many questions about my travels and others. Maybe it's a thing the US mandated.Stay safe bro. It seems that the disease has begun to spread in Europe quite fast. I feel really sorry that our people has caused so much trouble to the rest of the world.


I was not aggressive on trying to meet girls given the virus. Definitely did not have the full experience and will go there again.Wise decision. Safety should be our top priority in Kiev at the moment. Avoid meeting new girls, or keep them at minimum at least, and avoid kissing them.

I am staying with my girlfriend and have no plans to meet other girls, so I suppose I am exposing myself to low risks if getting infected. However I still have to go to supermarkets, and the fact that no one here wears masks makes me confused.


It's a very beautiful city and a lot cheaper than other EU places without losing quality; younger people will speak some English as they reckon Russian is not the only language they should know.

In terms of quality of the ladies, it's really a thing with personal preference. I really don't see anything too special or outstanding for the most part. Cost will definitely bring me back again.

I do notice that younger girls are covered with tattoos, girls who have done some work are having implants and lip injections. Which is confusing for me as they are better without them.There have been ongoing debates of whether Kiev is a good destination for mongering, but I'm a big believer of patience and hard work. You will find real gems if you try hard enough.

I have no problem with tattoos in most cases, but silicon implants could be a huge turn-off for me.


Was there an age poll on this site? Everybody's talking like "OGs" who's been doing this for decades. Haha.I don't think there was. I am 23 and just started my mongering career a few years ago! Learned a lot from the veterans and have great respect for them.

[PhotoSlider]

I came to Kiev on Feb 21 and transferred in Minsk. I was taken extra care of there obviously because of my nationality. I was stopped at passport control before boarding my flight to Kiev, was approached by a medical team. They asked my a lot of questions, checked my documents, tested my temperature, and took some of my saliva and nasal mucus. I barely made it to board my flight. I do not blame them, though. They were very professional and did a great job to protect their country and its people.

The process of entering Ukrainian boarder at Borispil was smooth. No queues, no medical checks, no extra questions.Perhaps this is somewhat similar to security checks for flights from Canada to US. Everything is checked at the large Canadian airport, like Toronto YYZ Pearson and others. Or Israeli El Al staff performs strict searches and questioning still in US before boarding the flight on route to Ben-Gurion / Tel Aviv.

Same with your flight from Moscow to Minsk to Kiev. Ukrainian airlines may rely on medical procedures performed and documented in Minsk.

I still think that all the global traffic is too relaxed at the moment. And that's fucked up.

[Hestendk]

I am from China, and I guess it falls into the category of high-risk countries. My city is quite far from Hubei Province though, and there were only a few confirmed cases in my province. My cities has been quarantined since late January, most public places were shut down, people were required

I am staying with my girlfriend and have no plans to meet other girls, so I suppose I am exposing myself to low risks if getting infected. However I still have to go to supermarkets, and the fact that no one here wears masks makes me confused.Why should people wear masks?

Its most prevent infected people from spreading the virus and you need to use it correct and change it many times a day.

I today went from borispol and out.

I saw several with mask, I even saw 1 guy with mask then he went to the business lounge and laid down on a sofa and took the mask half off?

One other girl was with a mask also, she had her fingers playing with her mask for several minutes.

Things like that make them totally ineffective.

Only things that really help is washing hand and in general make sure all areas are cleaned, I notices the toilets in both business lounge and the normal one had a hard smell of Bleech, so they washing with Bleech which will kill the virus.

All Data right now also shown a Slowdown in the spreading, and death rate is falling.

[AntonySun1996]

Why should people wear masks?

Its most prevent infected people from spreading the virus and you need to use it correct and change it many times a day.This is a very common misconception. Masks do not only prevent the infected from spreading the virus to others, they can help to protect healthy people from the virus as well. The masks can not keep you 100% safe, as the virus in the air could penetrate ordinary masks, but they are effective at capturing droplets, which is one of the main transmission routes of virus. There are studies proving that wearing masks properly could significantly reduce your chance of getting infected by virus in public places. However, it's true that wearing masks improperly could decrease their effectiveness, and could even backfire by increasing your chance of getting the virus. This is why people should be informed by the authorities of the correct ways of wearing masks, and how to properly dispose of them once they are used.

People should understand that not only the infected people have the need to wear masks. Two of my friends from China have been recently verbally abused in England by some locals because of their Asian appearance and the fact that they were wearing masks. This was ridiculous.


Only things that really help is washing hand and in general make sure all areas are cleaned, I notices the toilets in both business lounge and the normal one had a hard smell of Bleech, so they washing with Bleech which will kill the virus.

All Data right now also shown a Slowdown in the spreading, and death rate is falling.Good hygiene definitely helps. Besides, regular exercise helps you build stronger immune system which could make the virus less deadlier to you.


All Data right now also shown a Slowdown in the spreading, and death rate is falling.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NCoV20200209_Hubei_China_ROW_cases.png

The spread has slowed down in China, but not in Europe. Number of confirmed cases has been rising fast in many countries. The death rate in Italy in particular is quite high, at 5%, compared to the global average of 3. 5%. The may suggest that there could be a lot of people were infected, but haven't been tested. I would say it is still not the time to relax.

[PhotoSlider]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NCoV20200209_Hubei_China_ROW_cases.png

The spread has slowed down in China, but not in Europe. Number of confirmed cases has been rising fast in many countries. The death rate in Italy in particular is quite high, at 5%, compared to the global average of 3. 5%. The may suggest that there could be a lot of people were infected, but haven't been tested. I would say it is still not the time to relax.I tend not to believe statistical data from authoritarian regimes. Nothing personal, Antony. Thanks by the way for your honesty in stepping forward with sharing valuable information you have.

During Chernobyl disaster Soviet Government kept lying about the real situation. Same with the stats from China, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number of new cases and deaths is still increasing. For two reasons: not all deaths are accounted for yet due to quarantine in effect, and also government needs good news internally and globally. At the same time authoritarian style may be beneficial in curtailing the spread of infection by disregarding basic rights and freedoms. Maybe indeed China took control.

In US for sure the genie is out of the bottle, and number of new cases as well as deaths is growing rapidly with no slowdown in view. Developing vaccine will take at least till August.

The problem is not only the high probability of contracting within close proximity, and not in the higher risk for elders or patients with compromised health. The bad news is fibrosis it causes in lungs. It seems less severe than with SARS, but not enough autopsy results have been published so far to call these observations representative.

I am postponing for now pending rendezvous with Ukrainian beauties begging to get fucked.

[AntonySun1996]

I tend not to believe statistical data from authoritarian regimes. Nothing personal, Antony. Thanks by the way for your honesty in stepping forward with sharing valuable information you have.

During Chernobyl disaster Soviet Government kept lying about the real situation. Same with the stats from China, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual number of new cases and deaths is still increasing. For two reasons: not all deaths are accounted for yet due to quarantine in effect, and also government needs good news internally and globally. At the same time authoritarian style may be beneficial in curtailing the spread of infection by disregarding basic rights and freedoms. Maybe indeed China took control.

In US for sure the genie is out of the bottle, and number of new cases as well as deaths is growing rapidly with no slowdown in view. Developing vaccine will take at least till August.

The problem is not only the high probability of contracting within close proximity, and not in the higher risk for elders or patients with compromised health. The bad news is fibrosis it causes in lungs. It seems less severe than with SARS, but not enough autopsy results have been published so far to call these observations representative.

I am postponing for now pending rendezvous with Ukrainian beauties begging to get fucked.The Chinese were already aware that a new virus had begun to spread in early December 2019, but failed to warn the public until almost two month later. Some whistleblowers were illegally detained for "spreading rumours". I began to realize that the govt had been lying to us in early January, when new confirmed cases of coronavirus started emerging in surrounding countries, but not in Chinese cities other than Wuhan. Exactly like how the world found out the Soviet government was lying about Chernobyl accident when Sweden detected high level of radioactive contamination in their air. Our govt did the same thing during the 2003 SARS outbreak, withholding information and lying to the public until months later when it was too late.

[Sorbonne]

A new study in China finds that the coronavirus can cause irreversible brain damage even if it is eventually cured.I bet this occurs when they already have some other brain damage?

[YummyPL]

It seems reduced travel may already be having an effect. Girls on Mamba I have never met before but have been communicating with intermittently are now initiating communication asking when I will be arriving.

[Stevie69]

Hello,

I have been absent for a while, as I had something close to a girlfriend, but I am hoping to indulge again this year. I was checking the forum and noted a couple of trends:

- have the prices gone down? It seems many people are quoting prices starting at 1500. Yes, that is what I like to pay, up to about 2500, but previously I have had long discussions here with people to start at 200 or even 2500.

-I was visiting other places, and I have come to the conclusion that I only like to go downtown on girls who are young, clean, and elegant, but also preferably white, and particularly blondes. Does that make me the racist?

-the great thing about tinder in Ukraine is that girls actually reply! In my experience, most of them happen to be semi--pros. Soon enough they say "I only meet for money".

-coronavirus. Yes, it is a problem, particularly if you are the type that meets with real pros. If a girl has had intimate contact with 5 men per day, or even 5 men per week, then the risk is high. That is another reason why I have always preferred semi-pros, which I define as girls who use otherwise have jobs and use sex is to make ends meet, maybe once or twice per week, with regular customers. Still unsafe, but a little safer. I may have to wait a few months until it all passes.

-keep up the hard work!

I may have to wait a few months until it passes.

[AntonySun1996]

I bet this occurs when they already have some other brain damage?Not sure about this, sorry. Can't find the original source.

My point is people should take this epidemic more seriously because the long term effects of the covid19 virus on human body remain unknown. My city was among the cities with highest number of confirmed cases during 2003 SARS outbreak, with hundreds of people infected. Only about 10 people died, but less than half of the infected fully recovered. The rest patients were left with varying degrees of long-term health issues, some of which resulted from side effects of the treatment.

[AntonySun1996]

Does that make me the racist?Does the fact that you prefer girls makes you ageist? Does the fact that you only have sex with female makes you homophobe?


-coronavirus. Yes, it is a problem, particularly if you are the type that meets with real pros. If a girl has had intimate contact with 5 men per day, or even 5 men per week, then the risk is high. Staying away from the pros is a good idea. For those who still plan to meet them anyway, make sure to take measures to protect yourself during sex:

https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph5e3a5d359c807

[Ming69]

I am postponing for now pending rendezvous with Ukrainian beauties begging to get fucked.It sound like the mongering has been declining and they are begging for your business to return.

Not doubting your skills, but emptying our wallets are always their #1 priority.

[PhotoSlider]

It sound like the mongering has been declining and they are begging for your business to return.

Not doubting your skills, but emptying our wallets are always their #1 priority.Thank you. I am not the one to say that hot girls almost 40 years younger are attracted to me because I am smart and great-looking.

At least 5 of them were singing the same song since my departure in September, well before corona became a part of our life. I wouldn't say frequency of requests increased in my case. Doesn't matter. It should be judged not by me overseas, but by real researchers in the field.

Through the past year and a half 1 out of those 5 girls helped me to spend not nearly as much as I used to do for the last 20 years. Takes time but there are true diamonds in the rough to be found.

Surely without money, without the potential to make the lady's life better, I'd be pushed aside. Isn't it always the case? Why is it sometimes positioned as a flaw of character. Mine or my ladies?

[Member #4722]

It sound like the mongering has been declining and they are begging for your business to return.

Not doubting your skills, but emptying our wallets are always their #1 priority.Sounds like Ukraine closed borders to all foreigners now. Had a girl that I was very close to for the last four years. Started out she never asked me for anything and I sent her some money every now and then to help her because I genuinely cared. But she changed over the last year or so. Probably realized the power of her pussy and she became more manipulative. Then I caught her in a lie and broke it off. Have to laugh now as she is probably kicking herself for treating me badly now that she can't make money anymore.

[Uke Boy]

Just a word of warning to those who are planning to come to Ukraine starting Sunday and continuing for the next two weeks, at least. The Ukrainian government has closed the border to all foreigners who wish to enter the country except diplomats. You will be turned away at the airport or border so postpone or cancel your travel plans if you are planning on coming here at this time.

This closure is also open to extension depending on circumstances so two weeks is not a definite rule, it could be longer. Also, the exact list of who can come in will probably also be published tomorrow but don't count on entry if you have a foreign passport.

Frankly, it does not make anything better for those of us still here since there is an undercurrent of justified anxiety.

[Riina]

Just a word of warning to those who are planning to come to Ukraine starting Sunday and continuing for the next two weeks, at least. The Ukrainian government has closed the border to all foreigners who wish to enter the country except diplomats. You will be turned away at the airport or border so postpone or cancel your travel plans if you are planning on coming here at this time.

This closure is also open to extension depending on circumstances so two weeks is not a definite rule, it could be longer. Also, the exact list of who can come in will probably also be published tomorrow but don't count on entry if you have a foreign passport.

Frankly, it does not make anything better for those of us still here since there is an undercurrent of justified anxiety.They will likely allow Americans as we are special. Sounds like a dream come true, Ukraine with no competition.

[Uke Boy]

A clearer version of the border closure was just posted by the government. Ukraine will stop all civilian air flights beginning on March 17 at 00:00 hours and all passengers on any flight for the following two weeks, and this is important, be they Ukrainian citizens or foreigners will not be allowed to fly in. Also included in the closure are all land transit points including rail travel as well as all seaports. It is through the land and seaports which Ukrainian citizens may be able to return but not foreigners.

If you have plans now, change or cancel them for the time being.

[Sorbonne]

Sounds like a dream come true, Ukraine with no competition.Well, that could be true if the price goes down due to low demands.

Just came back to Ukraine with intention of being here for another 3 months (maximum for tourists), but I feel I'm stuck here, as I'm not sure which is the better place to be in the long run, Ukraine of the US. At least at the moment Ukraine has only 3 cases, or so they say.

If the US becomes much worse and Ukraine is doing ok after 3 months, there is possibility that I might just overstay here in Ukraine until the thing dies down (who knows when) and just pay the penalty if I eventually leave.

[PhotoSlider]

...Frankly, it does not make anything better for those of us still here since there is an undercurrent of justified anxiety.Yeah, I felt one of my regulars getting a little nervous lately. Seems the cash flow slowing down makes the girls unhappy.

This reminds me a few hourly girls arriving with a pissed off attitude, and little later explaining me that management imposed few hundred dollars penalty on them for policy violations, for example talking to the customer directly via messenger, etc.

Lady shouldn't be too hungry and underfucked to bring the happiness in the monger's life.

[PhotoSlider]

They will likely allow Americans as we are special...How so?

As of now Italians have 17 K+ infected and 1200+ dead. USA is not as bad yet, but steadily getting there. 2100 infected and the rate is not slowing down. On the contrary.

Americans are unlikely to be exempt from UA restrictions.

[PhotoSlider]

...The Ukrainian government has closed the border to all foreigners who wish to enter the country except diplomats...As far as I can read from the Statement by President Zelensky, foreigners with valid permanent or temporary residence in Ukraine will be allowed to enter past the deadline.

Foreigners currently in Ukraine have 3 days to leave on commercial flights. Then it will be through the special arrangements via their Consulate.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

More interesting to me is how this would affect Ukrainian girls frequently traveling outside of Ukraine and those staying abroad. Don't want to speculate. I would rather wait and see.

[Uke Boy]

They will likely allow Americans as we are special. Sounds like a dream come true, Ukraine with no competition.All non-Ukrainian citizens, including Americans, will not be allowed in with the exception of all those who have been granted legal temporary or permanent residency.

The rules on when the stoppage will begin is still a little confusing as to the start, but it is better not to come here over the next day or two since you may be sent back, an expensive disappointment.

In addition, as of today, the last trains from Przemysl and Warsaw Poland to Ukraine will run one last time and halt operations for the next two weeks. I believe that trains from Slovakia to Ukraine have also ceased running.

[Riina]

How so?

As of now Italians have 17 K+ infected and 1200+ dead. USA is not as bad yet, but steadily getting there. 2100 infected and the rate is not slowing down. On the contrary.

Americans are unlikely to be exempt from UA restrictions.Apologies, bad joke. News states all foreigners.

[Sorbonne]

All non-Ukrainian citizens, including Americans, will not be allowed in with the exception of all those who have been granted legal temporary or permanent residency.

The rules on when the stoppage will begin is still a little confusing as to the start, but it is better not to come here over the next day or two since you may be sent back, an expensive disappointment.

In addition, as of today, the last trains from Przemysl and Warsaw Poland to Ukraine will run one last time and halt operations for the next two weeks. I believe that trains from Slovakia to Ukraine have also ceased running.Most people take buses and even Marshrutkas between Poland and Ukraine, and I hope they are handling the situation with these buses well, as I read about planes and trains but not buses in the news.

So many Ukrainians live in Poland, and they can easily bring the virus from Poland where cases are climbing up fast. In fact the woman in the first fatal case (near Zhytomyr, just west of Kiev) in Ukraine did exactly that. She took a bus back from Poland on March 1, if I understand correctly. Hopefully, this will alert the authority to pay particular attention to the buses from Poland.

[AntonySun1996]

A clearer version of the border closure was just posted by the government. Ukraine will stop all civilian air flights beginning on March 17 at 00:00 hours and all passengers on any flight for the following two weeks, and this is important, be they Ukrainian citizens or foreigners will not be allowed to fly in. Also included in the closure are all land transit points including rail travel as well as all seaports. It is through the land and seaports which Ukrainian citizens may be able to return but not foreigners.

If you have plans now, change or cancel them for the time being.Thank you for the information.

Do you mean that both inbound and outbound flights will be stopped from March 17, or just inbound flights?

[AntonySun1996]

I'm really confused as from what I read un the news, some said the order will be effective within 48 hours, which is on 16 March, while other sources said on 17.

This matters to me because my flight leaving Kiev is scheduled at 23:15 March 16.

[PhotoSlider]

Apologies, bad joke. News states all foreigners.No worries! My bad for not catching your irony.

[Riina]

For the guys with girlfriends and wives in Ukraine, this is the time to assert yourself as a man. Selfish or cowardly behavior will never be forgotten.

[PhotoSlider]

Thanks P.S. Yeah. I checked their website and came to the same conclusion. But my phone would say something in Ukrainian if I call. Seems they have been disconnected.

Darn.Moulin Rouge finally responded to my inquiry today: "We are open 24/7, you can come in. "

Took them only 10 days.

[Sorbonne]

Hotel price is already much cheaper.

I'm not sure if girls' price would come down soon. With no other entertainment, even locals could start more p4 p.

Kiev subways will be shut from April 3rd on. I'm not sure how the city can function without subways. I guess you need to know how to take Marshrutkas. Or ride hailing services such as Uber and Uklon.

[Uke Boy]

Hotel price is already much cheaper.

I'm not sure if girls' price would come down soon. With no other entertainment, even locals could start more p4 p.During other times of financial and other crises here, prices were actually raised and not lowered by the ladies. This is a never-never-land that turns basic economic theory and concepts upside down. Maybe the Corona virus will change their minds and they will charge less but somehow I doubt it. I just checked a few sites and prices still not have changed.

As for me, I am in a possible at-risk category and I will wait it out so that I can play another day.

[Sorbonne]

During other times of financial and other crises here, prices were actually raised and not lowered by the ladies. This is a never-never-land that turns basic economic theory and concepts upside down. Maybe the Corona virus will change their minds and they will charge less but somehow I doubt it. I just checked a few sites and prices still not have changed.

As for me, I am in a possible at-risk category and I will wait it out so that I can play another day.Those who lost their jobs, such as waitresses, flight attendants, and even teachers, could turn to the P4 P industry.

I haven't got on mamba lately, but let us know if the online activities change there if anybody notices. Or maybe it's time to for myself go back to mamba.

[PhotoSlider]

Those who lost their jobs, such as waitresses, flight attendants, and even teachers, could turn to the P4 P industry.

I haven't got on mamba lately, but let us know if the online activities change there if anybody notices. Or maybe it's time to for myself go back to mamba.Friend of mine, Kiev resident, uses same agencies as I do, plus a number of regulars.

He just returned from a trip to Europe, barely made it before the shutdown, and according to his estimates the offerings increased threefold. No price change.

USD is 27+ UAH, back to a year ago, after hitting almost 23. About 10-15%, not much. May go to 30 UAH per 1 USD, probably wider spectrum of girls will be available, maybe more in the upper classier strata, and price will stay the same.

[Uke Boy]

USD is 27+ UAH, back to a year ago, after hitting almost 23. About 10-15%, not much. May go to 30 UAH per 1 USD, probably wider spectrum of girls will be available, maybe more in the upper classier strata, and price will stay the same.It all depends on how long this lasts and where the exchange finally settles. Today it has almost reach 29 and may well go to 30. If it stays this way, the last time there was a significant increase, the ladies pegged their price to the dollar rate. If they charged 2500 before when it was 24 or 25 grivna to the dollar, now they will charge 3000 when it will be 29 or 30 grivna and so on. They have no desire to lower their real prices while still maintaining their cost of doing business and their desire for personal goods and travel.

Right now, given the quarantine, the lack of foreigners and with locals hunkering down, they will probably take anyone at the current price but afterwards when the smoke clears, there may be a grivna price increase if the grivna dollar rate significantly increases.

[PhotoSlider]

It all depends on how long this lasts and where the exchange finally settles. Today it has almost reach 29 and may well go to 30. If it stays this way, the last time there was a significant increase, the ladies pegged their price to the dollar rate. If they charged 2500 before when it was 24 or 25 grivna to the dollar, now they will charge 3000 when it will be 29 or 30 grivna and so on. They have no desire to lower their real prices while still maintaining their cost of doing business and their desire for personal goods and travel.What travel?

And personal goods for awhile may translate into necessities.

For about a week now one of my regulars is nervously looking for a new sponsor while I am away. I like her a lot, as she is unique lady with rare qualities. Still somehow I am not jealous. Girl has got to do what she's got to do to survive. After I honestly submitted few options for her consideration, she decided to stay faithful to me, stating that everybody else is not worthy her time: married with kids, or old and ugly, or not generous enough, - the usual complaints of a young Ukrainian female seeking a source of income. I am not too naive to think she'll stay dedicated. Just like us the players, UA girls seldom do.

As Riina said. Now is the time to strengthen, by solidifying worthy ties and ditching the excessive ballast.


Right now, given the quarantine, the lack of foreigners and with locals hunkering down, they will probably take anyone at the current price but afterwards when the smoke clears, there may be a grivna price increase if the grivna dollar rate significantly increases.Agency prices are not dictated by girls, and UA P2 P management philosophy frequently makes no sense.

Time will tell, difficult to predict even based on prior events.

What has led in the past to cheaper prices?

[Member #4722]

Talked to a long time friend that works at Caribbean Club she says she is in dire straights as no tourists are coming to town and her income has disappeared. I doubt many of these ladies save much money even though they earn way more than the average citizen. I think a lot of these women will try webcams; seems like a booming business right now with a lot of horny lonely dudes at home. The sad thing is they can probably make as much or more camming (if they are smart and have good personality) and may never look back.

[Kozerog]

Girl has got to do what she's got to do to survive.First relationship I ever had with a female that was completely free of unpleasantness was with a stray cat, who started by eating from a food bowl I set outside my door, then let me pet her, then started sleeping indoors when winter arrived. So sad when I had to move away and leave her behind. Noticed another guy in the apartment complex had two strays living with him, so I asked if he could take care of a third after I left. Turns out my stray had been visiting his food bowl during the day even when sleeping in my apartment at night, and furthermore she used to sleep in his apartment before she moved in with me, and he was wondering where she was living now. We both laughed.

Good idea to treat escort / sponsor girls like stray cats. Provide pay-as-you-go value: food and a warm, dry place to sleep for cats, per-meeting money and good sex for girls. Don't expect gratitude or loyalty: cats always looking for backup food bowls, girls always looking for backup sponsors. Punishment, including harsh words, much less effective than subtly making it clear they can be replaced: feed other strays while yours is away visiting the neighbor's food bowl, let other girls leave their smell on your clothes or sheets.

(I'm locked down in a hotel in a small town in Spain now. Once daily I take a walk to the store for food. Zero danger here but also zero hope of ever finding a sugar baby to pass the time. Sorry I didn't fly to Kyiv early this month so that I'd be stranded there instead. BTW Reason death rates from covid19 are 100 times greater in Italy than Germany is that most deaths are elderly with existing health problems. In Italy, they blame covid19, even though it's just the straw that broke the camel's back. In Germany, they blame the existing health problem. But politicians are terrified of being blamed if things go bad, so they pander to the hysteria.).

[Guntherus]

Stray cats, heh heh, that's exactly what they are. Wish you to find one in your village now.

[PhotoSlider]

First relationship I ever had with a female that was completely free of unpleasantness was with a stray cat, who started by eating from a food bowl I set outside my door, then let me pet her, then started sleeping indoors when winter arrived. So sad when I had to move away and leave her behind. Noticed another guy in the apartment complex had two strays living with him, so I asked if he could take care of a third after I left. Turns out my stray had been visiting his food bowl during the day even when sleeping in my apartment at night, and furthermore she used to sleep in his apartment before she moved in with me, and he was wondering where she was living now. We both laughed...Kozerog, you are a poet! Beautiful writing. And that's precisely how many of the girls behave.

[PhotoSlider]

(I'm locked down in a hotel in a small town in Spain now. Once daily I take a walk to the store for food. Zero danger here but also zero hope of ever finding a sugar baby to pass the time. Sorry I didn't fly to Kyiv early this month so that I'd be stranded there instead. BTW Reason death rates from covid19 are 100 times greater in Italy than Germany is that most deaths are elderly with existing health problems. In Italy, they blame covid19, even though it's just the straw that broke the camel's back. In Germany, they blame the existing health problem. But politicians are terrified of being blamed if things go bad, so they pander to the hysteria.).Had to take a relative to the same Emergency Room a month ago and today for the reasons unrelated to Covid19, with a certain chronic issue.

Medical staff was totally relaxed and didn't care much in February. Now everybody is dressed properly, fully covered head, etc. Not quite hazmat yet. There was a young adult few rooms away dying from corona lungs complications. Our nurse was visibly shaken and crying, as his parents weren't allowed to attend, and not much can be done. I expect compassion will wear out quickly.

We were able to bail out in 2-3 hours.

Getting stuck in Kiev for a few months right now would be awesome, as my regulars sound so inviting and feminine in our conversations over Viber. Not too many food bowls are out for stray cats these days.

[Sorbonne]

I live outside Kiev but am thinking about venturing into Kiev by BlaBlaCar, as my US driver's license has expired, before the subway service ends on April 3.

Who's in Kiev? You can PM me.

[YummyPL]

Getting stuck in Kiev for a few months right now would be awesome, as my regulars sound so inviting and feminine in our conversations over Viber. Not too many food bowls are out for stray cats these days.I am really sad I missed getting there. I was going to be flying on or before the 30th but now my organization has a travel band on work travel even if their were flights in. ! This would have been a great time to develop the relationships that would have lasted in the year+ to come.

[Turgid]

............... politicians are terrified of being blamed if things go bad, so they pander to the hysteria......That's it right there.

[Kozerog]

That's it right there."Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, one by one".

Charles MacKay, Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds.

Details about the counting in Italy:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-03-18/99-of-those-who-died-from-virus-had-other-illness-italy-says

[PhotoSlider]

I am really sad I missed getting there. I was going to be flying on or before the 30th but now my organization has a travel band on work travel even if their were flights in. ! This would have been a great time to develop the relationships that would have lasted in the year+ to come."In the years to come" only if you keep feeding them. Otherwise I am sure you realize their loyalty lasts only as long as there's a benefit. Not only the promise of benefit, or substantial benefit in the past, but a stream of perceived value from you to designated ladies of interest.

Thinking aloud, as much as I like healthcare in Kiev, I have certain reservations about going there now. Exponential growth started to pick up in Ukraine, community spread phase now. Not sure where it's safer when the system gets flooded. They were lucky to delay, but the genie is out of the bottle.

One young beauty sends me pictures from her remote country house. Maybe getting quarantined with her? But I like variety. The same girl for no more than 2-3 days.

[AntonySun1996]

Does anyone know if the WU kiosks or their equivalents are still open and operate as usual in Kiev?

[AntonySun1996]

During other times of financial and other crises here, prices were actually raised and not lowered by the ladies. This is a never-never-land that turns basic economic theory and concepts upside down. Maybe the Corona virus will change their minds and they will charge less but somehow I doubt it. I just checked a few sites and prices still not have changed.

As for me, I am in a possible at-risk category and I will wait it out so that I can play another day.The logic is simple. The girls would be faced with a significant level of risk if she decides to meet clients during the coronavirus outbreak. So unless the girl is literally starving because of lack of money, she would probably choose to keep her price unchanged, if not to charge a premium. Not every girl is willing to risk her health to meet clients for a few bucks.

[PhotoSlider]

Does anyone know if the WU kiosks or their equivalents are still open and operate as usual in Kiev?No need to go anywhere.

If a certain lady has Privat Bank app on her iPhone, and her admirer sends her WU number via Viber or WhatsApp, she can simply punch in that number with her left hand, while still masturbating with the other, and receive the monger's sign of appreciation without venturing out of her premises.

Then she can continue partying with her local boy Misha or Kolya, both reduced by quarantine to primitive forms of entertainment.

Antony, forgive my candor, I am not talking about your lady of passion. The above is generalization.

There is an opinion that money better be handed over in person, or at least after the deed.

[PhotoSlider]

The logic is simple. The girls would be faced with a significant level of risk if she decides to meet clients during the coronavirus outbreak. So unless the girl is literally starving because of lack of money, she would probably choose to keep her price unchanged, if not to charge a premium. Not every girl is willing to risk her health to meet clients for a few bucks.Nothing will prevent the transmission of COVID-19 during the intercourse. Unless, of course, both partners are fully dressed in biological warfare protective gear. Like in that Naked Gun movie. Even then, I cannot comprehend the logistics of the act itself, and the disinfection afterwards. Hose everything with strong enough antiseptic? Or play the roulette like those adventurers insisting on vaginal sex without the condom?

FYI: I personally know a girl in Kiev that is currently sick with corona symptoms, and doesn't want to go to doctor. No kidding, gentlemen!

[Uke Boy]

Does anyone know if the WU kiosks or their equivalents are still open and operate as usual in Kiev?Western Union still works for now but with a possible issue. There have been recent cases where the bank or kiosk did not have dollars or euros (or did not want to pay out in the required currency). Your recipient may have to accept the grivna equivalent or try other locations. Do note that a great many bank branches have closed and those open work with reduced hours.

[Misterxxx]

Does anyone know if the WU kiosks or their equivalents are still open and operate as usual in Kiev?Why do you need Western Union. ? You can pay with mobile phone or credit card. Ukrainians are already happy if you don't pay with cash.

Payment for the girls. ? Send money card-to-card. It's very easy with a link in the internet (for example with the Monobank-Card).

[AntonySun1996]

Western Union still works for now but with a possible issue. There have been recent cases where the bank or kiosk did not have dollars or euros (or did not want to pay out in the required currency). Your recipient may have to accept the grivna equivalent or try other locations. Do note that a great many bank branches have closed and those open work with reduced hours.Thanks for sharing the information.

Looks like the banks and the money agencies are trying to hold the foreign cash in order to hedge the risk of further grivna downturn. My landlord has been insisting that the rent was paid in US dollars for a while.

[AntonySun1996]

Why do you need Western Union. ? You can pay with mobile phone or credit card. Ukrainians are already happy if you don't pay with cash.

Payment for the girls. ? Send money card-to-card. It's very easy with a link in the internet (for example with the Monobank-Card).I didn't know that.

I don't have a monobank card or any Ukrainian credit card. Can I send money this way with my foreign Visa card? My girlfriend has a monobank and a privat bank card. We have tried to send money card-to-card on internet but haven't figured out how.

[YummyPL]

"In the years to come" only if you keep feeding them. I wrote "develop the relationships that would have lasted in the year+ to come. " Once I get there, I will be in Kiev for at least a year. I like reliable girls I can see over long terms intermixed with a little variety. I want to find a few sponsorettes for the duration or large portions of my time there.

[PhotoSlider]

I wrote "develop the relationships that would have lasted in the year+ to come. " Once I get there, I will be in Kiev for at least a year. I like reliable girls I can see over long terms intermixed with a little variety. I want to find a few sponsorettes for the duration or large portions of my time there.When you reach Kiev and stay there for a year, and all the dust settles, possibilities will be endless. You will not be perceived as a sex tourist.

I guess my explanations are redundant. You definitely know what you are doing.

[DramaFree11]

If you do not speak the language and you are a foreigner you will always be considered a Sex Tourist in Kiev.

Kiev could be good for the next couple of months after the dust settles. Many girls that have left to other countries may return, because Kiev is cheaper. They will probably stay, save some money and leave the middle of the summer, then they will be gone again for better opportunities.

[Kozerog]

If you do not speak the language and you are a foreigner you will always be considered a Sex Tourist in Kiev.For once I have to agree with DramaFree11 versus PhotoSlider: single foreign men over age 40 are always assumed to be sex tourists in Kyiv, meaning men who travel for paid sex (PUAs travel for free sex). This assumption is an advantage with semi-pros, because usual awkwardness about money with semi-pros disappears. Any girl in Kyiv who flirts with much older foreign men knows she will probably be offered money at some point in the conversation. If she would be offended by such an offer, she knows to cut the conversation short. If she doesn't cut the conversation short, man knows she is waiting for a money offer and so can make one without offense.

I talked to my regular. Like me, she is a skeptic about the seriousness of covid19. Meanwhile, her family back in her native village is going crazy with fear.

BTW, as of 19 March 2020, covid19 no longer considered "high consequence infectious disease" in UK, because fatality rate so low. Disconnect between scientists and politicians there, so shutdown continues:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19

[Misterxxx]

I didn't know that.

I don't have a monobank card or any Ukrainian credit card. Can I send money this way with my foreign Visa card? My girlfriend has a monobank and a privat bank card. We have tried to send money card-to-card on internet but haven't figured out how.Yes. You can send money with your foreign credit card. I tried Visa and Revolut (Virtual Mastercard). It is possible that your credit card company will ask you to confirm the transaction. But it works fine and very quick. The owner of the Monobank Card can send you a link via internet.

[Misterxxx]

BTW, as of 19 March 2020, covid19 no longer considered "high consequence infectious disease" in UK, because fatality rate so low. Disconnect between scientists and politicians there, so shutdown continues:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/high-consequence-infectious-diseases-hcid#status-of-covid-19In the UK: 90.000 tests. 9529 people with infection. 463 dead. 10% dead? This is a low rate?

[PhotoSlider]

...single foreign men over age 40 are always assumed to be sex tourists in Kyiv, meaning men who travel for paid sex (PUAs travel for free sex). This assumption is an advantage with semi-pros, because usual awkwardness about money with semi-pros disappears. Any girl in Kyiv who flirts with much older foreign men knows she will probably be offered money at some point in the conversation. If she would be offended by such an offer, she knows to cut the conversation short. If she doesn't cut the conversation short, man knows she is waiting for a money offer and so can make one without offense...No objections.

My assumption was that within few months spent with Ukrainian beauties YummyPL will pick up enough of Russian. Perhaps he already speaks well enough. Agree, language is a must. However, even I, as a native speaker, would be considered a sex tourist, if I stay for a few days. Language is a necessary but not sufficient condition in that mathematical system of equations.

And likewise, no arguing about the convenience of dealing with Semi-Pro ladies. Easy to arrange a meeting, especially when few solid providers are available& And subsequently easy to politely ask them to leave, when higher priority engagement comes up. None of that relationship BS! As one wise man said: "PhotoSlider, they are not your girlfriends or significant others". Enjoy, compensate, and have no hard feelings.

Perhaps we need to establish a definition of who exactly is considered a sex tourist. And what are the implications.

[GDreams]

In the UK: 90.000 tests. 9529 people with infection. 463 dead. 10% dead? This is a low rate?My daughter is in London. They are only testing people who go to hospital. It is not representative of people with actual infections.

[PhotoSlider]

In the UK: 90.000 tests. 9529 people with infection. 463 dead. 10% dead? This is a low rate?9529 corona positive is 10% of 90.000 tested.

Current count is 580 dead out of 11,812 infected in UK.

5% of infected end up dead in UK. IMHO that is high. Certainly not as high as Black Death in 1348-1350 that killed 30-45% in England, and up to 60% in Europe.

And the COVID problem is serious permanent damage to lungs of many survivors. Sort of like what smallpox did to faces back in the day, except COVID does it to lungs internally.

South Korea and China are the only 2 countries with high count where second derivative of newly infected cases is not positive anymore. China pretends the growth is almost negligible, and in South Korea it is linear, not exponential anymore. The rest of the world is accelerating.

UK Population is 66 M. Only 0. 014% infected so far. But the curve of total cases is exponential, just like in US or Spain. Waiting to saturate, when it runs out of substrate.

HIV infected make 0. 15% in UK. Give it a week and COVID will catch up.

[Guntherus]

South Korea and China are the only 2 countries with high count where second derivative of newly infected cases is not positive anymore. China pretends the growth is almost negligible, and in South Korea it is linear, not exponential anymore. The rest of the world is accelerating....Iceland also has managed to avoid exponential rise, and NB not by closing the country (which would have been easy), but by extensive testing and isolating infected persons ASAP. And everybody who they had contacted earlier.

Close Ukraine and you will only delay the spread for some months or a year. It willhit hard when it hits.

[Misterxxx]

9529 corona positive is 10% of 90.000 tested.

Current count is 580 dead out of 11,812 infected in UK.

5% of infected end up dead in UK. IMHO that is high. Certainly not as high as Black Death in 1348-1350 that killed 30-45% in England, and up to 60% in Europe.

And the COVID problem is serious permanent damage to lungs of many survivors. Sort of like what smallpox did to faces back in the day, except COVID does it to lungs internally.

South Korea and China are the only 2 countries with high count where second derivative of newly infected cases is not positive anymore. China pretends the growth is almost negligible, and in South Korea it is linear, not exponential anymore. The rest of the world is accelerating.

UK Population is 66 M. Only 0. 014% infected so far. But the curve of total cases is exponential, just like in US or Spain. Waiting to saturate, when it runs out of substrate.

HIV infected make 0. 15% in UK. Give it a week and COVID will catch up.The death rate in Italy is 10 percent. The media say that this will also happen in the UK. By the way: Even Prime Minister Boris Johnson is infected with Corona.

[Kozerog]

Article and editorial in professional medical journal, versus mass media, which suggests fatality rate under 1%. I previously posted a link to the official UK government agency for public health, which no longer regards covid19 as a serious threat, because fatality rate is low.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2001316

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMe2002387

[YummyPL]

My assumption was that within few months spent with Ukrainian beauties YummyPL will pick up enough of Russian. Perhaps he already speaks well enough. My Russian is quite poor but passable. I am actually working on my Ukrainian. I assume that they always think I am a sex tourist on first meeting, but the Ukrainian speaking should reinforce that I am living and working in Ukraine as I suspect it is significantly less common among casual visitors. PhotoSlider I really think you should try switching.


Enjoy, compensate, and have no hard feelings.This is exactly the right attitude however "compensate" can have broad meanings. I like to experiment. Time will tell what methods work best for me.

[AntonySun1996]

Close Ukraine and you will only delay the spread for some months or a year. It will hit hard when it hits.Yeah, too late. Closing borders only works at early stage. North Korea suspended its only international airline between Pyongyang and Beijing in January, and they have zero coronavirus case so far.

[Kozerog]

My Russian is quite poor but passable. I am actually working on my Ukrainian.
I find it impossible to learn two similar languages at once. Since I'm still learning Russian, that rules out learning Ukrainian as a spoken language, at least for now. Instead, I'm learning to read it, using the following Anki decks, which are text only, no audio:

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/812422769
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1344132972
https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/113587335

Even though these decks are Ukrainian to English, I actually practice translating Ukrainian to Russian. For difficult sentences, I use Google translate to get the Ukrainian to Russian transaction, or use the Ukrainian-Russian dictionary of ABBYY app for individual words. Translating Ukrainian to Russian is easier than Ukrainian to English, even for me, because Ukrainian and Russian have such similar structure.

If you want to learn Ukrainian pronunciation, use this Anki deck, which has native audio:

https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/1520102967

Anki is an extremely powerful learning system. Windows version and Android app (AnkiDroid) are free, whereas there is a small charge for iPhone app.

Everyone in Ukraine can understand Russian, and most people understand both languages, but many people only speak one language. So understanding Ukrainian is more important than speaking it. Even with conversations between native Ukrainians, often one person will speak Russian, the other will reply in Ukrainian, and they both understand the other perfectly.

[PhotoSlider]

Iceland also has managed to avoid exponential rise, and NB not by closing the country (which would have been easy), but by extensive testing and isolating infected persons ASAP. And everybody who they had contacted earlier.

Close Ukraine and you will only delay the spread for some months or a year. It willhit hard when it hits.Population of Iceland is under 400 K. Ukraine is 100 times larger, and much less disciplined, or one may say much more free spirited. Simple Graph Theory from Math class in the college.

[PhotoSlider]

My Russian is quite poor but passable. I am actually working on my Ukrainian. I assume that they always think I am a sex tourist on first meeting, but the Ukrainian speaking should reinforce that I am living and working in Ukraine as I suspect it is significantly less common among casual visitors. PhotoSlider I really think you should try switching.Russian is my native language.

Agree with your suggestion, and in 2016 already started practicing Ukrainian with a lovely girl from Rio strip club. Extended and diversified further. I understand about 80% now when good rich (not a limited surrogate) Ukrainian is spoken. Which I am certainly proud of, as real Ukrainian is closer to Polish and Czech, and significantly different from Russian. So, yeah, I read a lot now, watch movies, and most importantly, ask the girls I meet to speak to me in Ukrainian. Love the language. I am Ukrainian by heritage BTW, as are a few on this Forum.

[PhotoSlider]

...Everyone in Ukraine can understand Russian, and most people understand both languages, but many people only speak one language. So understanding Ukrainian is more important than speaking it. Even with conversations between native Ukrainians, often one person will speak Russian, the other will reply in Ukrainian, and they both understand the other perfectly.The current status is precisely as Kozerog describes it.

Over time there is a slow gradient, changing towards more and more Ukrainian due to it being education language at schools and universities. But there is no rejection of Russian in the daily life. In fact when I did my poor attempts at speaking Ukrainian to Uber drivers, they were tolerant at first, and then seeing how much I suffer, suggested switching to Russian, even though their Ukrainian was impeccable.

Linguistically Russian is certainly closer to Ukrainian than any Germanic (English, etc.) or Latin (Spanish, French, Italian) language.

For any foreigner either Russian or Ukrainian would be tough, but very rewarding. Therefore one of them is enough.

If you are traveling anywhere besides Kiev, for example Minsk or Moscow, then definitely pick up Russian over Ukrainian.

Russian is slowly disappearing throughout the former Soviet Union, for example in Latvia it was forced out, and then due to business need had a substantial comeback in the service industry. Everybody speaks Lithuanian in Lietuva, and young generation doesn't know Russian anymore. Russian is a Lingua Franca to a lesser and lesser extent. In fact English improved significantly everywhere. Not in the remote villages, but educated individuals, especially with a college degree, or well-travelled girls speak or at least follow English quite nicely. Waiters at the good restaurants also speak. Sophisticated dialog is another matter.

And learning new language with a hot girl is so much fun! I do cards, like Kozerog, with specific words and phrases like:

- I want to make love to you!

- You have beautiful nipples.

- Can you move a little closer?

She teaches me Ukrainian, and I teach her English.

[PhotoSlider]

...This is exactly the right attitude however "compensate" can have broad meanings. I like to experiment. Time will tell what methods work best for me.Different girls, different meaning indeed. Envelope with cash was seldom rejected, and with certain regulars even requested without any ambiguity. For some girls from remote towns and universities it is the ability to spend the night in the secure location. For some it is entertainment. Most of them genuinely want sex, many refuse to leave unsatisfied. So yes, broad meanings.

As long as statistically you are better than average undertaker, local or visiting, there will be acceptable and even outstanding offering over sufficient period of time. Free market. Supply demand.

I would love to jump forward in time and learn how Kiev will change yet again. Do not want to speculate.

[YummyPL]

Instead, I'm learning to read it, using the following Anki decks, which are text only, no audio:Thank you for the links. I took a look. Anki is useful but I prefer memrise.com. I am building my own decks using materials from other decks.

[Kozerog]

Ukraine locked down:

https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/uryad-zatverdiv-novi-obmezhuvalni-zahodi-u-borotbi-z-koronavirusom

[Sorbonne]

Guys,

Stay safe and keep the girls healthy.

https://covid19.com.ua/

Young girls may keep working as they think they are invincible.

[Sorbonne]

Kharkiv may be the place to go now.

[Kozerog]

I don't want to cause unnecessary panic, but there are rumors that covid-19 has caused disruptions in the condom supply chain. Condoms are mostly made in Asia. I stocked up just to be safe, since I and my regular are strict about condom usage. I could have asked her to stock up, but better to do it myself. I also bought a tube of quality lube just in case of supply chain issues with that. There might also be supply chain issues with sildenafil (Viagra) and other pharmaceuticals, so if you rely on these, consider stocking up.

I use condoms mainly for protection from gonorrhea (some strains of which are drug resistant), chlamydia (not yet drug resistant but heading there), warts (HPV), trichomoniasis and non-specific urethritis, all of which are non-fatal but widespread and a nuisance to treat. HIV, syphilis and hepatitis should be a minor concern in Ukraine unless the girl uses hard drugs or is a street urchin. It's possible to get some of the non-fatal diseases in the mouth, though less common than urinary tract, because the mouth is designed to deal with external pathogens whereas urinary tract is not.

[LshRoomer]

The current status is precisely as Kozerog describes it.

Over time there is a slow gradient, changing towards more and more Ukrainian due to it being education language at schools and universities. But there is no rejection of Russian in the daily life. In fact when I did my poor attempts at speaking Ukrainian to Uber drivers, they were tolerant at first, and then seeing how much I suffer, suggested switching to Russian, even though their Ukrainian was impeccable.

Linguistically Russian is certainly closer to Ukrainian than any Germanic (English, etc.) or Latin (Spanish, French, Italian) language.

For any foreigner either Russian or Ukrainian would be tough, but very rewarding. Therefore one of them is enough.

If you are traveling anywhere besides Kiev, for example Minsk or Moscow, then definitely pick up Russian over Ukrainian.This brings up a question that I'm sure will provoke plenty of opinionated responses. I know everyone's experience will be different (YMMV) so I only ask that your opinion be substantiated by multiple samples in your comparison.

A bit of background:

I have mostly been mongering in Czechia (Prague) and London, so I am used to the SA environment and the quality and standards in those locations. I have experimented in Germany, Amsterdam, Poland (have a fav Ukrainian there), and Austria, but mostly singular occurrences. Languages: English (N), Romanian, some German / Czech / Spanish. I have had really good experiences with Ukrainian providers in Prague and Warsaw. It's also been mentioned to me that Ukraine is the "place to go". I've heard the same of Moscow and Budapest.

I'm not a big fan of FKKs, or RLD, or anything that's simply bust a nut and go. I would normally shoot for a 3+ hour session (def GFE). Usually when in Europe for work, I have 3-4 days to blow which is when I normally travel and partake in the hobby.

Question:

Where would you guys recommend to go, for quality at really reasonable prices? I don't need to be spoon fed. A simple point in the right direction is enough. Are there places in EE that you would definitely stay away from? Are there places you would avoid if you didn't' know the local language?

I'm just looking for solid opinions of good places to try once this pandemic has ended.

Thanks.

[Sorbonne]

Kiev Post says today that Per Capita GDP in Ukraine is $5400.

Wiki says it was $3600 in 2019.

I'm not sure where the statistics come from.

[Kozerog]

Kiev Post says today that Per Capita GDP in Ukraine is $5400.

Wiki says it was $3600 in 2019.

I'm not sure where the statistics come from.Official per capita GDP is published by State Statistics Service of Ukraine and was 3,659 USD in Dec 2019:

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/ukraine/gdp-per-capita

Of course, since prices are low in Ukraine, nominal per capita GDP gives a misleading picture of living standards. PPP (purchasing power parity) per capita GDP gives a more realistic picture, 8667 USD in 2017:

https://www.ceicdata.com/en/ukraine/gross-domestic-product-purchasing-power-parity/ua-gdp-ppp-gdp-per-capita

Both nominal and PPP per capita numbers are misleading because of income inequalities and because much of GDP is government spending (infrastructure, etc) versus individual income. Many people in villages in Ukraine live quite well on cash incomes of under 1000 USD per year, which goes for fuel, electricity, bulk grains and manufactured goods. Other food is grown locally (vegetables, milk products from a cow, eggs, pigs and chickens for meat) and they own their houses, so no rent. Some of the food grown for personal consumption and owner occupied housing is captured by GDP, most is probably not.

On the other hand, all of the weaponry produced for use in the Donetsk region shows up in GDP, though this production clearly does not raise living standards. Ditto for healthcare: someone walking around their pretty village to stay healthy does not add to GDP, whereas someone being stabbed in a fight, then operated on at the hospital and finally dying so as to require burial / cremation does increase GDP. In other words, it's quite possible to have a very high GDP but very low standard of living, and vice versa. Non-mainstream economists have been commenting about the absurdity of GDP since the 1930's.

[SfoCowboy]

Per capita income is a better indicator.


Kiev Post says today that Per Capita GDP in Ukraine is $5400.

Wiki says it was $3600 in 2019.

I'm not sure where the statistics come from.

[PhotoSlider]

Per capita income is a better indicator.Income that girls receive from us is difficult to factor in. Most of them spend it right away.

[Misterxxx]

Kiev Post says today that Per Capita GDP in Ukraine is $5400.

Wiki says it was $3600 in 2019.

I'm not sure where the statistics come from.Most people work illegally. These are not recorded in the statistics. A kitchen assistant in the restaurant usually earns 500-700 UAH per day (about 20-25 dollars). A waitress in the restaurant often earns $ 1,000- $ 1,500 a month (tip included). Of course not in the small village. But in the city in any case. Often money is made extra. Stolen something in the company. Or the chef only buys bad instead of the best quality for the restaurant. Accounting in Ukraine is poor.

[NorskKing]

I am one of those lucky people who is flourishing in this crisis. Partly because I was luckily correct with stocks correction timeline and also because my some of my investments are doing better in this situation. I hope all are safe and healthy.

I am hoping that after the crisis, it would be a buyers market and then I can experiment a bit with threesomes. Of course I am not in a new attitude to throw money in waste but in a better position to excitement. I am planning a trip in July and hopefully the airports are open by then. What are your thoughts? When are you intending to visit again?

[Member #4722]

I am one of those lucky people who is flourishing in this crisis. Partly because I was luckily correct with stocks correction timeline and also because my some of my investments are doing better in this situation. I hope all are safe and healthy.

I am hoping that after the crisis, it would be a buyers market and then I can experiment a bit with threesomes. Of course I am not in a new attitude to throw money in waste but in a better position to excitement. I am planning a trip in July and hopefully the airports are open by then. What are your thoughts? When are you intending to visit again?I doubt you will be able to travel in July. I was planning to go July 1 and I am pretty much sure I won't be going then. There is an event I want to attend late August and I'm pretty confident that won't be happening either.

[Misterxxx]

I am one of those lucky people who is flourishing in this crisis. Partly because I was luckily correct with stocks correction timeline and also because my some of my investments are doing better in this situation. I hope all are safe and healthy.

I am hoping that after the crisis, it would be a buyers market and then I can experiment a bit with threesomes. Of course I am not in a new attitude to throw money in waste but in a better position to excitement. I am planning a trip in July and hopefully the airports are open by then. What are your thoughts? When are you intending to visit again?I read an interview with the boss from Kiev Borispol airport a few days ago. He said that flights will probably be resumed in the off-season (autumn / winter). When fewer passengers are flying. An interview with the boss of Lviv airport was hardly more optimistic. She said from late August / September.

Do not be fooled by the fact that flights can already be booked in May. These flights will not exist in reality. No airline is giving money back at the moment. This only fills the airlines' bank accounts.

The Czech Republic is the first country to start up again. The complete plan (the opening of hotels included) runs there until mid-June. The borders will still be closed at this point (and after). I don't think Ukraine opens faster.

[Sorbonne]

I don't know about other nationals, but most Americans are looking to leave Ukraine at this time, not the other way around.

[Kozerog]

I doubt you will be able to travel in July. If covid19 were a serious threat, then of course anything is possible. But the evidence is pouring in that these lockdowns are overreaction and much worse than covid19 itself. Ukraine is a poor country and cannot afford foolishness. Not when their neighbor to the north (Belarus) has no lockdown and more or less the same results as Ukraine with lockdown. There are also the examples of Sweden and Iceland, but Belarus is the one that counts because it is so similar and so close. As of last Friday, government was talking about opening in May:

https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/denis-shmigal-uryad-rozroblyaye-strategiyu-vihodu-z-karantinu-vzhe-u-travni

Unless the situation worsens in Belarus, expect the pressure for opening to be overwhelming within another two weeks. Watch the situation for both Ukraine and Belarus here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries.

[Kozerog]

I don't know about other nationals, but most Americans are looking to leave Ukraine at this time, not the other way around.Most Americans are piss-pants. NorskKing is a monger.

[Gargano19]

If covid19 were a serious threat, then of course anything is possible. But the evidence is pouring in that these lockdowns are overreaction and much worse than covid19 itself. Ukraine is a poor country and cannot afford foolishness. Not when their neighbor to the north (Belarus) has no lockdown and more or less the same results as Ukraine with lockdown. There are also the examples of Sweden and Iceland, but Belarus is the one that counts because it is so similar and so close. As of last Friday, government was talking about opening in May:

https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/denis-shmigal-uryad-rozroblyaye-strategiyu-vihodu-z-karantinu-vzhe-u-travni

Unless the situation worsens in Belarus, expect the pressure for opening to be overwhelming within another two weeks. Watch the situation for both Ukraine and Belarus here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries.All countries are talking about opening it gradually. No country can take the toll of economic repercussions of complete lockdown of over 2 months. They have to open some places so that few can get their jobs back or run their businesses. But travelling would be lobg shot for a long time.

[Kozerog]

... But travelling would be long shot for a long time.What the Ukrainian government will probably do, when they start to allow travel again, is require 2 weeks quarantine for all foreigners. Since I plan on 3 months in Kyiv, I can tolerate 2 weeks quarantine. But probably most mongers travel to Ukraine for shorter periods, so quarantine will be a big obstacle for them. Ukraine will definitely be much poorer as a result of this lockdown, and that will eventually lower prices for girls.

[YummyPL]

Most Americans are piss-pants. NorskKing is a monger.I like your posts more and more. I just don't understand why people don't see this whole thing as an opportunity. I don't want to belittle the deaths, but the Ukrainians will need outsiders to get their economy moving. I want to be the one to help do that.

I am an American but I am very irritated I missed getting to Kiev by three days before it shut down. I have been trying to ensure I get there as soon as the ban is lifted and my work colleagues are doing everything they can to get back home taking advantage of the two flghts that have returned to the USA since the lock down. I don; t understand them.

[Gargano19]

What the Ukrainian government will probably do, when they start to allow travel again, is require 2 weeks quarantine for all foreigners. Since I plan on 3 months in Kyiv, I can tolerate 2 weeks quarantine. But probably most mongers travel to Ukraine for shorter periods, so quarantine will be a big obstacle for them. Ukraine will definitely be much poorer as a result of this lockdown, and that will eventually lower prices for girls.True for most countries where mongering is dominant.

Yes 2 week quarantine seems like till late this year, which would be a huge no no for most mongers.

[Sorbonne]

I like your posts more and more. I just don't understand why people don't see this whole thing as an opportunity. I don't want to belittle the deaths, but the Ukrainians will need outsiders to get their economy moving. I want to be the one to help do that.

I am an American but I am very irritated I missed getting to Kiev by three days before it shut down. I have been trying to ensure I get there as soon as the ban is lifted and my work colleagues are doing everything they can to get back home taking advantage of the two flghts that have returned to the USA since the lock down. I don; t understand them.There was another flight from Kiev to the USA on April 15 and there will be 2 more flights within this month.

I was ready to board on April 15, but as we f***ed like there was no tomorrow on April 14, it was too late to board when I rose out of hangover on 15.

[AZN Monger]

If covid19 were a serious threat, then of course anything is possible. But the evidence is pouring in that these lockdowns are overreaction and much worse than covid19 itself. Ukraine is a poor country and cannot afford foolishness. Not when their neighbor to the north (Belarus) has no lockdown and more or less the same results as Ukraine with lockdown. There are also the examples of Sweden and Iceland, but Belarus is the one that counts because it is so similar and so close. As of last Friday, government was talking about opening in May:

https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/denis-shmigal-uryad-rozroblyaye-strategiyu-vihodu-z-karantinu-vzhe-u-travni

Unless the situation worsens in Belarus, expect the pressure for opening to be overwhelming within another two weeks. Watch the situation for both Ukraine and Belarus here:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries.I trust Belarus reporting real cases as I trust Saudi Arabia stating that had no clue on Jamal Khashoggi's planned murder. Show me the evidence that the lockdowns are an overreaction. NYC will be 10 x worse with people filling the streets and restaurants.

[Kozerog]

...Belarus...You don't trust Belarus? Fine. I also cited Sweden and Iceland as examples of countries with no lockdown and increase in death rate from all causes as well as deaths classified as due to covid-19 following same curves as countries with lockdown. There are also the developed Asian countries (Japan. Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan), but I don't have charts similar to those of euromomo for these Asian countries.

Evidence that lockdown is itself causing an increase in deaths is just arriving, since the lockdowns are so recent, and too complicated to argue about this evidence here, plus you don't seem too interested in truth. (I'm an investor, and truth matters a lot to me, since it affects my investment decisions. Note that I'm well positioned to profit from total destruction of the economy by continuing the lockdowns, so not arguing my own book.) Effect is small but growing in Europe. In places like the Philippines, South Africa, India, the effect is potentially catastrophic. Possibly intentionally so: an attempt to exterminate the lower classes in those countries by starvation.

[YummyPL]

an attempt to exterminate the lower classes in those countries by starvation.I've been saying similar stuff about India. But developing countries are f**ked either way. They will have a much higher death rate from the disease or from economic destruction. But yes, in the long run, the economic destruction will likely have a worse effect in these countries.

[PhotoSlider]

You don't trust Belarus? Fine. I also cited Sweden and Iceland as examples of countries with no lockdown and increase in death rate from all causes as well as deaths classified as due to covid-19 following same curves as countries with lockdown. There are also the developed Asian countries (Japan. Singapore, South Korea, Taiwan), but I don't have charts similar to those of euromomo for these Asian countries...Here is my thinking aloud. Please forgive any miscalculations and my being too verbose.

I do have informative curves from John Hopkins for Japan and South Korea, and they are substantially different from each other.

https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1oxa-M_29bZZvL80uOPZpjazXgvuI8gLBERkJOrX37ESjxy4YBVqZiSjg#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6

I look at histograms in the bottom right corner and switch from Confirmed to Daily Cases.

South Korea peaked beginning of March at 800 new daily cases, and steadily went down, counting about 20-30 cases now. 10 K confirmed cases, 200 dead. South Korea is essentially an island with rather dense population of 52 M.

Japan is also an island, with population of 125 M. It also has about 10 K confirmed cases and 200 deaths. Except Japan daily new cases are increasing from mid-March and currently are over 1000 new cases per day.

Neither Ukraine nor Belarus are islands. More travel, less isolated.

Both Ukraine and Belarus have similar curves, both are speeding up, both have about 5 K confirmed cases. Ukraine is currently at 500 new daily cases, and accelerating at about 10-12% per day, which is bad enough. 133 dead.

10% daily means doubling in 6-7 days. 10 times more in about 3 weeks. So, the Ukrainian curve is relatively flat, but not flat enough. 5 K confirmed today means 500 K in 6 weeks. End of May. Studies show actual infected rate is 5-10 times higher with many having less symptoms. 2-5 millions out of 30-40 millions means no herd immunity yet (like Sweden and UK want), but established death rate from COVID is 0. 37%. Meaning 20 K dead and increasing. 2019 death rate in Ukraine was 12-15 per 1000 annually. Rather high. That translates to about 30-40 K a month. Therefore 3 weeks before half of the population gets infected death rate will increase by 50%. By that time in Kiev one may start seeing what they experience in New York, Spain and Italy. Medical staff unable to treat adequately due to overload.

Belarus is the same - 5 K confirmed, 45 dead (less) about 500-600 new daily cases. But Belarus population is 4-5 times smaller than Ukraine. I trust stats from Belarus much less than Ukraine. Regardless, my impression Belarus is in a worse situation.

Ukraine started 2-3 weeks behind US / Europe. The bad news is that out of 5 K infected, one thousand is medical workers. The infrastructure is not overwhelmed yet, but will be within weeks.

While I agree that no country can withstand prolonged shutdown, I see that Ukraine is not that badly hit yet.

It seems that Italy started seeing fewer new daily confirmed cases, - down from 6 K+ to 3-4 K.

Spain had a similar pattern. Unfortunately the second wave was observed, not as high as the first.

US has reached plateau of about 25-35 K new daily cases for 2 weeks now. This could mean saturation in testing, overloaded infrastructure, or stable system in terms of spread. Every 30 K daily new today pass the virus to 30 K more tomorrow. Perhaps that number is dictated by the size of the population.

Ukraine did not reach that steady state saturation plateau yet.

What does it mean for Ukraine? Increased crime. Theft, burglaries, assaults, break-ins. There are reports coming from personal sources in Kiev already.

There are continued attempts to destabilize the country. At first it was stupid people causing fires in Chernobyl forests. Now there are reports of intentional arson in Zhytomyr area.

My interpretation of the facts seems to show that Ukraine is few weeks away from steady state (no acceleration in new daily cases). Then it will stay at the peak, then will slowly go down. Government will be forced to open up. Phased approach or much faster it may lead to the second wave. Just like with the Spanish flu 100 years ago.

There is currently no hard evidence that acquired immunity is long-lasting. Vaccine is 12-18 months away, if possible at all. HIV, Hep see and Denge are also RNA viruses and do not have vaccine created. COVID-19 is the third wave of corona virus in the last 20 or so years. SARS and MERS already went and gone, but this one is substantially worse in the strategy that virus is using. Anyway, I am expecting it returning after slowdown. If not this fall then perhaps in a few years.

I do not believe civilization will get wiped out. I do think that August-September is more realistic for opening up Ukrainian borders a little.

I like how New Zealand and Australia manage, but for practical purposes both are islands.

How different of the world is it going to be? I would expect less of GFE, more individualistic isolated society. Relying on long-term regulars from both sides. Girls and mongers. Of course there are those that don't care. I am not one of them. Wasn't before, and not changing after.

Definitely bring your own condoms as supply routes will be disrupted, and Kozerog is right. There might be shortage or lower quality.

[Gargano19]

How different of the world is it going to be? I would expect less of GFE, more individualistic isolated society. Relying on long-term regulars from both sides. Girls and mongers. Of course there are those that don't care. I am not one of them. Wasn't before, and not changing after.

Definitely bring your own condoms as supply routes will be disrupted, and Kozerog is right. There might be shortage or lower quality.GFE, kissing will be hard to find in post lockdown era. I'm expecting some bias treatment towards Chinese too. Some will disagree with this for sure, but Chinese will have to pay more nowbto get little less mechanical service.

[Sirioja]

GFE, kissing will be hard to find in post lockdown era. I'm expecting some bias treatment towards Chinese too. Some will disagree with this for sure, but Chinese will have to pay more nowbto get little less mechanical service.Asians already paid more than us, I mean Caucasians, even before virus, like US bought for more expensive, under panic, masks, to get before others.

[YummyPL]

but established death rate from COVID is 0. 37%.Interesting and thoughtful analysis. I am curious as to where you are getting your death rate number from. I don't know of any site that I consider reputable reporting any established death rate that is anywhere near that number. I don't see that number on the Johns Hopkins site (which is the main site I have been following).

[PhotoSlider]

Interesting and thoughtful analysis. I am curious as to where you are getting your death rate number from. I don't know of any site that I consider reputable reporting any established death rate that is anywhere near that number. I don't see that number on the Johns Hopkins site (which is the main site I have been following).This number is the lowest accepted in mathematical modeling of COVID pandemic by epidemiologists, population geneticists, virologists, evolution theory experts, et al. From UK, Israel, Eastern + Western Europe, and US. In US it is NIH, and few leading universities. Unfortunately I cannot quote the sources at the moment.

What follows is a brain dump. TLTR.

The definition is simple. Death rate is the ratio of dead to the total population. For example in US it means 340 M * 0. 0037 = 1.258 M will be dead after pandemic is over. It will be much higher if the infrastructure gets overloaded, because Trump fired CDC director appointed by Obama, introduced his own useless idiot in charge, and reduced budget for pandemic events, assuming we are not a third world country susceptible to Ebola and shit, or simply because people do not follow stay at home policy, and infection multiplier (average number of persons each confirmed case further infects) is greater than 1.

0. 37% seems very particular indeed. Why not 1%, or half of a percent, or one tenth of a percent? Different regions and methods of calculation provide the range anywhere from zero to 13%.

0. 37% final death rate correlates with observations in different countries. At least order of the value is correct.

One of the examples is the island country called Diamond Princess cruise ship. Perfect container for mathematical modeling. It had a total of 3711 passengers plus crew. Currently 712 are confirmed, number of new daily cases is zero after peaking at 100. Number of dead is 13.

13 divided by 3711 is 0.35% dead of total population.

13 divided by 712 is 1.8% dead of total confirmed.

712 divided by 3711 is 19% confirmed of total population.

3618 or 97.5% of total population were tested.

As we can see not even half was infected due to quarantine in place.

There were similar calculations done in some locations in California, as well as for total populations of certain countries.

USA current death rate has reached 0.012%.

Slightly over 1% of total population is tested far from being wide enough.

0. 2% of total population are confirmed infected.

New York City (not the State of New York) is already at much higher 0.17% close to half of expected final. NYC will surely exceed that forecast as easier cases become more heavier without proper treatment or simply no access at all. BTW it is believed NYC received it mostly from Europe.

There are also estimates of percentages of dead out of confirmed. 1. 5% if treated, and 5% if no treatment is available. Confirmed in US may go as high as 15-20 M before we start seeing a meaningful reduction in the new daily cases. We are 5 times double away from that. We are doubling every 8-12 days at the moment. It'll go into June for sure, unless it gets worse due to lifting off restrictions.

Too early to say about Ukraine, as it is 2-3 weeks behind.

I shouldn't have spoken about plateau and steady state in my prior post. Underlying differential equation generates exponential growth or fade away. Therefore peak is reached, substrate is exhausted, and when multiplier becomes less than one, fade away asymptote is initiated going towards zero. People get overconfident and new wave of infections starts. That is what we observe in new daily cases for USA. Peak has been reached on April 4. Went down then second wave up on April 9. Currently we see third wave up.

[PhotoSlider]

GFE, kissing will be hard to find in post lockdown era. I'm expecting some bias treatment towards Chinese too. Some will disagree with this for sure, but Chinese will have to pay more nowbto get little less mechanical service.Price structure will most likely change. I doubt our hobby will get eradicated completely.

Kiev ladies operated during TB, syphilis, HIV, SARS, Zika, multiple invasions during revolution and world war 2, and more. There will be overpriced girls on one end, and an equivalent of truck stop lizards on the other.

There's game in the city right now. Girls are extremely polite. I expect higher intensity of viral risks and adventuresome undertakers taking more chances in May.

Curious to see how the city will adjust going forward. I have a hunch we shall remember 2019 the way we discussed River Palace for the last 5-7 years following the emergence of Viber, WhatsApp and Instagram.

Number of mongers and female contacts already went through Corona symptoms.

Stay safe, gentlemen!

[PhotoSlider]

Simple question: Is COVID an STD?

Let's say I end up in Kiev, and still never got infected yet.

Let's also for the sake of discussion assume that immunity for COVID doesn't last long. To be confirmed, I know.

Now, what level of interaction with a young beautiful Ukrainian female would increase / decrease my chance of contracting COVID-19?

Obviously DFK, as this is respiratory infection.

What about Missionary without a space suit on me? BBBJ? DATY?

I didn't research the subject myself yet, and understand it is somewhat similar to flu or bacterial infections like strep and staph, but maybe I am mistaken.

[Riina]

Simple question: Is COVID an STD?I'm seriously thinking about mongering with my 3 M respirator. What I want to know is if I can catch Covid by BBBJ.

[Sorbonne]

Face covering can be arousing.