Kyiv

[Nordic Nomad]

I guess all this are the same agency / bait-switch rip offs?

Are there like real websites where genuine individuals in need of money post?))).

Or is one website better than others?

Or do we have to call them all and wait until one gem shows up? Which is nothing I necessarily despise. Because that's Kiev as we know it.Some ads are by agency / agent / pimps, some are real independents. Google phone number and if you see it in some other site with different photos you know it's at least agency, possibly scam as well. I have found few girls who deliver what they promise from Naberu. Back when Kiev-x forum was still up you could find lot of reports about independents but not so much anymore, I probably try my luck with some telegram channels if I visit Kiev again. I'm leaning more towards Spain or Russia, starting price is bit higher but in the end it's way cheaper as everything costs extra in Kiev.

[Ringudor]

I guess if you consider paying $350-450 to bank a 5 or 6 the best in the world, then we have very different opinions. Kiev Stripclubs are a rips off and very low end. There are many good thing about Kiev but the Stripclubs and nightlife is terrible, that is pre-virus, it will be even worse now.Strip club is a place were you can see a girl stripping, and enjoy how she does, the beauty of woman body.

If you want a brothel, is a different thing, I never paid a girl in a stripclub for sex, I go there to enjoy views, and in my opinion, Kiev ones are the best I have ever seen, if you want sex for money, then a stripclub in Kiev is not a good choice, if you want to enjoy a show, for a affordable prize, they are the best.

[Imoraig]

A pity than stripclubs don't work now, they are the best I have ever seen.

I'm in red zone now, anybody knows if just spending some days in green zone is enough to avoid carantine?How do you know they don't work as now? I have been told by local contact: "Clubs giving bribe and working but not a lot of customers" . Someone who is in Kiev right now could confirm if this is true or not.

Regarding RedZone question, the answer is probably no, you should just take a flight from a Greeen Zone if you want to be considered as Green Arrival. In any case I would suggest for Red Zone just follow what advised here: https://www.avianews.com/ukraine/2020/07/20/ukraine_entrance_rules_for_citizens_and_foreigners_20july.

I translated the important bits:

1) How to end self-isolation early.

The Ukrainian government allowed the self-isolation to end early when returning from the countries of the red zone. To do this, you need to pass a PCR test for coronavirus in a Ukrainian laboratory. If a negative result is received, which confirms that the passenger is not sick, the approved laboratories transmit the information to the Public Health Center, after which self-isolation is terminated. You can get tested at the airports of Boryspil, Lviv and Kharkiv upon arrival. The service costs from 1500 to 2100 UAH per person. The result becomes known in about a day.

2) If the trip to Ukraine lasts less than 14 days?

If a citizen of Ukraine or a foreigner enters Ukraine from a country on the red list and plans to go abroad again in 14 days, he must undergo a PCR test for coronavirus and stop self-isolation early after receiving a negative result. Otherwise, when leaving Ukraine, he may be fined for violating the quarantine rules.

Also do not forget to get your insurance and read about the red zone bla bla app here on the official site: https://www.visitukraine.today/.

With good luck you ll be PCR done and clean in 24 h and be able to proceed to your main trip goals. That is what I ll do.

And yes your are right, no matter what some randoms say, best stripclubs of world are, by far, Kiev ones.

Good luck!

[PhotoSlider]

And yes your are right, no matter what some randoms say, best stripclubs of world are, by far, Kiev ones.Yep, random and irrelevant.

Not sure if strip clubs are functioning now. Rio has a website and a phone number. States it is open 3 pm-6 am. I doubt that's true.

Concur with Ringudor. Kiev strip clubs are the best. Only thermas in Brazil may compete with strip clubs in Kiev. But those are not strip clubs, they are thermas with action on site. Loved having young student mulattoes in my arms at Rio-de-Janeiro. And fuck whoever says brazilieras are bad Kiev to me is better because it is closer culturally.

I am native Russian speaker, which definitely helps in Kiev to get phone numbers from some of the strippers for a follow-up appointments.

I picked up one of my best regulars in Kiev from strip club Rio in 2015. Her pussy was pure honey, she loved sex and after the first encounter we didn't discuss money. I provided entertainment, and we had lots of fun together for many years. She was from the western part, away from Kiev, and spoke mostly Ukrainian, which I love, but at the time didn't know much. She became my first true Ukrainian language teacher. Thanks to her energy I made great progress over the years. Adorable, passionate, feminine, well mannered, immensely attractive young lady with a matching attitude.

Scarlette I didn't' like at all. Never tried any strip clubs at Arena City, that are looks dangerous to me. Only Club Darling, and even that one I never went to in person, instead consolidation dispatchers arranged for a curbside deliveries to my apartment at 2000 UAH / hour. Another favorite regular was from Darling, stayed with me frequently over the course of the past 2 years, no money discussed, but obviously expenses have been incurred.

Rhinoceros chain left a mixed impression. Star Rhinoceros back in 2011 was amazing, - lots of young students, bodies out of this world, best attitudes, lots of contact. Kissing nipples and more for no extra charge, as long as there's connection. Possible to get phone numbers.

My favorite strip club was "Mandarin" on the boat, close to the spot where "River Palace" used to stay moored. Partner club of Rio. Great cabaret performance, Moulen Rouge style, costumes, choreographed group performances, educated singers, lights, classy girls. Gorgeous! Friendly girls swarming around our booth. That I haven't seen anywhere. Not in Brazil, not anywhere in the world, definitely not in Tijuana that armpit of San Diego. Mandarin was the best place to go straight to, right after dropping off suite cases at AirBnB on the way from the airport. Great chef, excellent food. Closed 2-3 years ago. Such a bummer!

Not sure how much contact will be possible this time in strip clubs, especially with foreigners. I think we need to wait another year, make it through the next pandemic spike in October-November, then Winter, then Spring. And when the flu season is over in May 2021, perhaps COVID will disappear on its own just like the Spanish Flu 100 years ago, and new SARS viruses from China will not come in yet. That will be the time to go to Kiev and check out the eagerly awaiting beauties.

Still, even then I will not go to any strip clubs. Period! They are IMO a waste of money. I spent at least 30 weeks in Kiev over 2017-2019. Didn't go to any strip clubs. My apartment was facing Rio. The usual Kiev challenge. Too many decent girls to fuck them all, never enough time. Definitely no time for strip clubs anymore. Before quitting the last 3-4 visits to strip clubs I made together with my regular girls. Interesting experience.

[Ringudor]

How do you know they don't work as now? I have been told by local contact: "Clubs giving bribe and working but not a lot of customers" . Someone who is in Kiev right now could confirm if this is true or not.Mmmmm, should be interesting to know, a pity that now, interact and make private dances with girls is a bit dangerous, bus is still a choice, as I plan to go in mid August, I will inform here once I know.


Regarding RedZone question, the answer is probably no, you should just take a flight from a Greeen Zone if you want to be considered as Green Arrival. If it was so easy, everybody would do thid to avoid carantine.

"The citizens from countries with a high level of COVID-19 cases who have not been on the territory of these states over the past 14 days* are not required to undergo observation. "

But I don't know how they check were have you been last 14 days, also don't know if they make you a questionary about it and what happens if you lie, I will try to get some info about it.


You can get tested at the airports of Boryspil, Lviv and Kharkiv upon arrival. The service costs from 1500 to 2100 UAH per person. The result becomes known in about a day.This is so interesting, arrive there by boryspil and not zhuliany to get a test at airport and avoid all the process.


With good luck you ll be PCR done and clean in 24 h and be able to proceed to your main trip goals. That is what I ll do.

And yes your are right, no matter what some randoms say, best stripclubs of world are, by far, Kiev ones.

Good luck!Sure man, I will write here about the process once I'm in Kive and enjoying views in city strip clubs.

[Sorbonne]

I also used to source my girls from strip clubs.

But it was my understanding that whoever owned Rio relocated Mandarin to downtown and renamed it as Scarlet, thereby I did not see much difference between the two. So I'm a little puzzled by PS' comment. Maybe just a different perception? Or was I drunk? I've been to both only a few times each and liked them both.

I used to frequent Rio between 2010 and 2015. Good old times. You could behave like a king just by tipping a few managers 100 UAH each.

Rio is best remembered for this girl, whom, after taking her out 2 or 3 times from Mandarin / Rio, I was able to take to Turkey for a beach vacation in summer 2015. I paid for our flights (with my mileages) and for our all inclusive 5* hotel / resort but didn't have to pay her. She was a little too old to my taste at 26 but resembled a well-known celebrity, no joke. Both of us said it was our best vacation ever.

In fact taking girls out on vacation is my favorite activity and have also taken Mamba girls to Croatia and Dominican Republic (all with the same arrangement as above). Mamba used to have this page for travel companions, but I guess it has been long gone.

2 years ago, this 18 y.o. regular cutie said to me she wanted to go to Maldives, Bali or DR, but I had to deal with it at a Kiev resort hotel because I've been on budget more recently.

Basically, I wouldn't be bragging here if things are going just as well today as before, LOL.

[AntonySun1996]

But I don't know how they check were have you been last 14 days, also don't know if they make you a questionary about it and what happens if you lie, I will try to get some info about it.
I guess they could know where you've been simply by checking stamps on your passport.

[Imoraig]

I also used to source my girls from strip clubs.

But it was my understanding that whoever owned Rio relocated Mandarin to downtown and renamed it as Scarlet, thereby I did not see much difference between the two. So I'm a little puzzled by PS' comment. Maybe just a different perception? Or was I drunk? I've been to both only a few times each and liked them both.

I used to frequent Rio between 2010 and 2015. Good old times. You could behave like a king just by tipping a few managers 100 UAH each.

Rio is best remembered for this girl, whom, after taking her out 2 or 3 times from Mandarin / Rio, I was able to take to Turkey for a beach vacation in summer 2015. I paid for our flights (with my mileages) and for our all inclusive 5* hotel / resort but didn't have to pay her. She was a little too old to my taste at 26 but resembled a well-known celebrity, no joke. Both of us said it was our best vacation ever.This looks like amazing story, not sure if anyone who frequented Rio Strip Club pior to 2016 can confirm it that it was so much easier to "feel king" there, or if it was possible such a "love story" there.

Rio looks to me a safe and fun place to spend some time and to enjoy dances and a show, and also can be a good place to meet&connect hotties if you can afford them (of course the ll be asking 200 ish+) . I would be very surprised to learn some vacation like this without having to pay her can happen nowadays. All these girls are there doing business. I can't see how this gets to a "free trip" even if you actually get along nice together or go to a nice top location. It is just their way of life and their work and why they should make exceptions? We live in Instagram and onlyfans era, is just so easy to get involved into all this for any girl, specially if they learn from their colleagues in places like strip clubs. They all know from SA and other sites that such kind of arrangements are paid for, and it is so easy for them to check the "market rate".

But maybe as you said that was possible in Kiev in good all days, I don't know, don't have so much experience.

[DramaFree11]

This looks like amazing story, not sure if anyone who frequented Rio Strip Club pior to 2016 can confirm it that it was so much easier to "feel king" there, or if it was possible such a "love story" there.

Rio looks to me a safe and fun place to spend some time and to enjoy dances and a show, and also can be a good place to meet&connect hotties if you can afford them (of course the ll be asking 200 ish+) . I would be very surprised to learn some vacation like this without having to pay her can happen nowadays. All these girls are there doing business. I can't see how this gets to a "free trip" even if you actually get along nice together or go to a nice top location. It is just their way of life and their work and why they should make exceptions? We live in Instagram and onlyfans era, is just so easy to get involved into all this for any girl, specially if they learn from their colleagues in places like strip clubs. They all know from SA and other sites that such kind of arrangements are paid for, and it is so easy for them to check the "market rate".

But maybe as you said that was possible in Kiev in good all days, I don't know, don't have so much experience.Rio was amazing back in day, but those days are long gone. Now expressive and a lot of games, that the manager play. I high have no problem with the prices if the quality is there, but it is just not the case anymore. Very average and many would say below average for the price.

The last time I went was with a very hot girl 8. 5, I worked on her for years. She laughed at the quality of girls there, I do not think there was even a 7 there that night and I would say more 5's the 6's.

[Sorbonne]

This looks like amazing story, not sure if anyone who frequented Rio Strip Club pior to 2016 can confirm it that it was so much easier to "feel king" there, or if it was possible such a "love story" there.

Rio looks to me a safe and fun place to spend some time and to enjoy dances and a show, and also can be a good place to meet&connect hotties if you can afford them (of course the ll be asking 200 ish+) . I would be very surprised to learn some vacation like this without having to pay her can happen nowadays. All these girls are there doing business. I can't see how this gets to a "free trip" even if you actually get along nice together or go to a nice top location. It is just their way of life and their work and why they should make exceptions? We live in Instagram and onlyfans era, is just so easy to get involved into all this for any girl, specially if they learn from their colleagues in places like strip clubs. They all know from SA and other sites that such kind of arrangements are paid for, and it is so easy for them to check the "market rate".

But maybe as you said that was possible in Kiev in good all days, I don't know, don't have so much experience.

I was not necessarily frequenting Rio so much because from 2010 when River palace sank until 2015 when I moved to Europe I was coming from the US to Kiev only for 1 to 4 weeks per year, and that's when I was going to Rio.

I might have been just lucked out with the girl with whom I went to Turkey.

She was often telling me about how unlucky she had been with men in her life, and as I was just treating her with respect and kindness, she might have felt that her void was filled? For this reason I don't really believe that EVERY Ukrainian / Russian girl prefers brutemen to gentleman, as some people on this board claim, although there is no doubt that many Ukrainian women blatantly prefer brutes.

Besides, the girl seemed to be making a lot of money at Rio and probably was not looking for extra money but just for some fun or even for some fleeting sense of security with a kind man. Now I remember she was saying the only other country she had ever been to was Russia, and she had never experienced all-inclusive resort before.

After the trip we kept in touch of course, but eventually I had to let her go because she had a son, and I was not ready to have a relation with someone with children. (When we came back from Turkey, her son along with his nanny were waiting for her at KBP.)

I also believe it was an era before IG and SA in Kiev.

I do not really feel that I was doing anything special at that time. Although I had not followed this forum for a few years before corona, when I did follow back in the early decade, I remember seeing several others posting about their vacations with Kiev girls, whether they were sourced from Gia, Rio, Mamba or university campuses. But, to think about it, I'm not sure if they were paying the girls or not.

But the last time I went to Rio in late 2017 I did not necessarily find it much different from before. I always thought only 10 % of girls were above 8 there and was often surprised to see girls who shouldn't be stripping in front of discerning men doing just that. At the same time I took out a girl who may well be the most beautiful girl I have ever seen at Rio that night, although she may be too petite for many guys' taste. At that time it was still 300 USD to take out a girl (I don't know how much it is now), and by that time I was able to find girls for much less, so that was the last time I took a girl out from a strip club.

[Fred54]

At that time it was still 300 USD to take out a girl (I don't know how much it is now), and by that time I was able to find girls for much less, so that was the last time I took a girl out from a strip club.I have a small question. Took out the girl means all the rest of the night is included with the girl. Or you must negotiate out of the club with the girl?

I go sometimes in strip club in western Europe, but this kind of option is not on the menu.

Thanks.

[Imoraig]

I was not necessarily frequenting Rio so much because from 2010 when River palace sank until 2015 when I moved to Europe I was coming from the US to Kiev only for 1 to 4 weeks per year, and that's when I was going to Rio.
I might have been just lucked out with the girl with whom I went to Turkey.

But the last time I went to Rio in late 2017 I did not necessarily find it much different from before. I always thought only 10 % of girls were above 8 there and was often surprised to see girls who shouldn't be stripping in front of discerning men doing just that. At the same time I took out a girl who may well be the most beautiful girl I have ever seen at Rio that night, although she may be too petite for many guys' taste. At that time it was still 300 USD to take out a girl (I don't know how much it is now), and by that time I was able to find girls for much less, so that was the last time I took a girl out from a strip club.Yes you are right, as of 2020 Rio keeps pretty the same description and prices as you recall from 2017. Now I have also read here from people saying that such prices in Rio and other strip clubs are outrageous (Princess, Scarlet, Dolls. They look to me more or less the same level of talent, not sure if any one knows some better strip clubs in town). I can agree if you compare prices of rest of things in town, the talent prices are same as in western countries, which does not make sense.

My main disagreement comes when talking about "I was able to find girls for much less". How comes? Of course it is possible (and to some extent easy) to find girls, many girls. But what is not clear tome is that you can find nowadays those "above 8 level" and it will actually going to cost you anything less than 200 -300. Call it an arrangement, a dinner date or call it as you wish, but I don't see easy ways to get "above 8 level" below those prices. And the good thing in strip clubs is that you can at least see many different girls in the same place and interact and connect a bit with the girl you deem "your taste". This thing you can't really do when setting up dates online or in agencies or other ways. And the rest of nightlife is OK, but not so OK to pick up truly hotties. Caribean club and the likes they can be fun but you are not going to hook up there with "above 8 in looks".

So it would be good to see some peers here sharing tips on finding these "above 8 level", avoiding at the same time the expensive fees of strip clubs. Thanks in advance.

[Riina]

Rio is a churn and burn scam. Most of the girls will want to run away after your first pop even though three hours was agreed upon. In this era, they would have to pay me to sit in their tiny rooms.

[Partizaan]

I hope to be able to visit Kiev soon again for business and was checking out this forum again. Just shortly before Corona kicked in I had already the pleasure to be in Kiev for an international project. I hired a nice loft via Airbnb close to Arena and used the dating app Mamba to hook up with some local ladies. My far best experience was with a young brunette, called Marina. Actually I found her not on Mamba but on a local directory. There I cannot find here anymore but to my surprise I stumbled upon here again on an international directory called CLC and her profile is on the Kiev pages https://city-love-companions.com/escorts/kiev/ Her own profile page at the moment there is https://city-love-companions.com/escort/marina-2/.

She has a great figure with slim legs and natural big breasts. Her big light blue / grey eyes and thick shiny hair are also particularly charming. I invited her over to my apartment and booked her for an hour only. But despite the limited time it was really a GFE date; with lots of French kissing and fondling. Great oral skills (OWC) as well. Don't be fooled by her innocent girly looks because she has definitely a wild side and really enjoys sex. I always like to change and meet new girls but Marina I would definitely not mind seeing again next time in Kiev. Hope the (work) situation will allow me soon to travel again to Ukraine. Fingers crossed and any (travel) suggestions welcome.

[Hestendk]

So it was time to return to Kyiv again, Had some business inside Kyiv so left Poltava Region for Kyiv.

I been seeing a Girl from Odessa On / off last 2 years, couple of times a year when we have the option to see.

Its this type of girl that never can plan anything other then suddenly or when she is in mood for planing.

So I been chatting to her last 2 weeks that if she want we could meet in kyiv, I could fly her in and we could spend some days togehter.

Normal I will never accept this type of behavior from a Girl, but I know her for long time and know some of her familiy also.

But this time she just didn't answer the last 3 days up to when I was in kyiv so I went back on Mamba.

I normally use the hit & run tactic, there, match with 800 profiles a day (fake GPS location) and also sending alot of msg to girls, and I just write what I'm looking for and that I'm in kyiv alot so trying find someone to see on a regular basic.

And its so clear that the girls here are missing cash, probably 3-4 x the amount of girls returned on my msg, in a positive way.

So I started to plan.

The plan ended up with the following setup.

Arrival day, short meeting 26 years old, single mother worker in IT 3-4 hours was agreed on for 3000 UAH (Could have been negotiated down probably) Looks 7, Slim body, nice be breast Good english skills (girl1).

Arrival day evening 21 years old student 6000 UAH Evening 20:00 to morning 10:00 looks 8 Slimd Body see breast Good english skills (girl2).

Day 2 Evening 27 Years Old hairdresser, Slim / skinny tall blond be breast looks 7 Good english skills 4000 UAH 19:00 to 11:00 in morning (girl3).

I also had one backup but I told her I didn't knew if I came becauase simething changed so I would write If I came. 22 years old Slim Body, be breast Looks 9 she wanted 200 USD for evening +night til morning.

So on Arrival day. Girl from odessa ask if I fixed Plane ticket out of the blue.

In 99 out of 100 cases I would say forget it, but this girls and I have something totally crazy when we see, after seing couple of days with her I need rest after.

She is this type of girl that knows I Like sex and she will wake me up in night just to have sex, and not only 5 minutes but 20-30 1-2 times a night and then back to sleep, what's even better is that she is a 9 if not close to 10 on my scale.

52 Kg, 1. 68 High, see Breast modified but so soft and nice that the doctor should have an oscar for them, Age around 26 Not stupid but also not A grade student.

So we fixed tickets and payments we have an understanding on what she should have, but 2 days with her always end up in around 1. 000 Where the 600 is for her ann the 400 goes to shopping and eating.

So not the most cheap option but she is the best sex I have ever got and its just getting better and better.

But now I was overbooked. Which is Something I In general always try not to do.

So I changed my original 2 days in Kyiv to 3 days in kyiv.

Went to kyiv meet the first Girl1.

Totally sweet girl, good english and the sex was pretty good for 1 Time meeting, I still get msg. From her that she hope we soon see again, and I will also try and see her again, very wild in bed and either she is the best faker or she enjoyed it.

Girl 2-3 I Told them that my planes was moved so we could see on day 3, so yes I double booked them which Is in general not nice but I Had an plan.

So day 1 I went to airport get the odessa girls and the started 2 days of crazy sex and enjoyment, I think we had Sex the next 48 hours around 9 times, I lost count somwhere in all this.

Again a Perfect meeting, but to the expensive side, and she always try to get some extra gifts, and she always get some from me, I can afford it andshe is a nice girl to spend time with.

So on day 3 morning I Send her to airport and went back to appartment for sleep some hours.

Took decission that I wanted see girl3 that evening (4000 UAH) But also knew that I would be without alot of energy.

So I arranged that she came and we went out to eat first, medium expensive nice food and wine 1500 UAH, which I think she appriciated.

Back to appartment and drink some wine and speak little and then Sex which was pretty good but not something to write about, we fall asleep and woke up in morning and had another time of sex again okay sex but not anything special (for 4000 UAH it was a good bargain).

Drove her close to her home because it was in my direction, and we still have some msg. On whatsapp but she will only be an backup.

Now Back to Girl2 which I ofc not wanted burn totally so when I wrote that I would not come but I know its bad to just cancle same day so I arranged that She got her phone topped up with 750 UAH as an way to say sorry.

Which she really appriciated and said I should not have done and we will see another time ofc. When I'm there.

I always try and be nice and not double book and treat them like I want they treat me so that's why I did this.

BUt if anyone are going to kyiv then Mamba is a perfect hunting place at the moment, there are alot of freelancers and girls who just sometimes want little extra money, and for eveing till morning I was quoted from 4000 UAH to 750 euro where most was around 5000-7000 UAH which again is cheap but the situation here are bad for the girls.

[Riina]

but the situation here are bad for the girls.It's bad for worn out skanks, but still good for college cuties.

[Hestendk]

It's bad for worn out skanks, but still good for college cuties.Agree but the market is in buyers favor at the moment.

[Adindas]

BUt if anyone are going to kyiv then Mamba is a perfect hunting place at the moment, there are alot of freelancers and girls who just sometimes want little extra money, and for eveing till morning I was quoted from 4000 UAH to 750 euro where most was around 5000-7000 UAH which again is cheap but the situation here are bad for the girls.Hestendk;.

Great report.

4000-5000 UAH for all night is still OK, but UAH 7000 (US $255) is already in the upside, considering you could easily find freelancer / escort in other countries in Europe, with that price range. But if they are 8-9 it might be worthy.

Is there a way to know to know that the one will turn up to your hotel is likely the one you see in the Mamba website and not heavily photoshopped? Just in case the one turns up to your hotel is not your liking is there any polite way to send them back?

Sometimes also I fail to understand the way the prostitution work in Ukraine. If you go to Czech Republic, Poland for instance US girls. You will normally pay less for UA girl, but it seems they are pricier in their own hometown??

In some cases of outcall girls in other countries especially they are very professional, they will go home or refuse to do another session after the first session? Is there nay way to spot this in advance?

[Hestendk]

Hestendk;.

Great report.

4000-5000 UAH for all night is still OK, but UAH 7000 (US $255) is already in the upside, considering you could easily find freelancer / escort in other countries in Europe, with that price range. But if they are 8-9 it might be worthy.

Is there a way to know to know that the one will turn up to your hotel is likely the one you see in the Mamba website and not heavily photoshopped? Just in case the one turns up to your hotel is not your liking is there any polite way to send them back?

Sometimes also I fail to understand the way the prostitution work in Ukraine. If you go to Czech Republic, Poland for instance US girls. You will normally pay less for UA girl, but it seems they are pricier in their own hometown??

In some cases of outcall girls in other countries especially they are very professional, they will go home or refuse to do another session after the first session? Is there nay way to spot this in advance?7000 UAH from 19/20 to 10/11 Next day is An okay price still, but it can be found cheaper.

In my homecountry an UA girl will cost at least 4000 UAH each hour, an an all night around 20.000 UAH.

Yes Mamba can be photoshopped by I always avoid those who only have professionals pictures, and I ask for more pictures on viber / whatsapp.

If a girl shows up and looks nothing as the photo yes then I would send he away, Many times I think the girls look better then they do on the photos, some also use fake photos that looks 90% like them, but they will show the real photo after contact is made.

[NorskKing]

It still looks bad with the numbers of infection in Ukraine.

I am getting a bit paranoid about health safety.

I like stripclubs to go have few drinks and view the talent. Seems like not all talent will be available if the stripclubs open partially through their backdoors.

But on the other hand it must be buyers market there so using mamba or trying to find newcomers would be easier comparatively.

I am from green country and that's an advantage with less hassle to start the fun.

Seems like I am not able to make my mind. Suggestions dear mongers? Of course I know that it is the risk that I need to decide in the end but still want to hear out what fellow minds has to say.

[Argo1990]

You used to be able to filter for girls that are "looking for a sponsor" on mamba. But they removed these criteria a while back. Is there a new way of identifying girls that go for money on mamba? (except for the super obvious seasoned pros, but I am looking more for a part time / freelance type of girl 20-23).

[Fred54]

You used to be able to filter for girls that are "looking for a sponsor" on mamba. But they removed these criteria a while back. Is there a new way of identifying girls that go for money on mamba? (except for the super obvious seasoned pros, but I am looking more for a part time / freelance type of girl 20-23).I had a look to this website, research is not super accurate, by location or even tag. Sometimes it's better to scroll the morning the pics "meeting" and check the profile after.

You may need something like 15 minutes each day, but sometimes you find a treasure.

[NorskKing]

You used to be able to filter for girls that are "looking for a sponsor" on mamba. But they removed these criteria a while back. Is there a new way of identifying girls that go for money on mamba? (except for the super obvious seasoned pros, but I am looking more for a part time / freelance type of girl 20-23).I just upgraded my mamba to VIP and realized the same thing. The search criteria based on "looking for sponsor" does not exist anymore. Just want to try my luck on mamba as theoretically it should be a buyers market and many girls getting to kick start their economy.

[YummyPL]

You used to be able to filter for girls that are "looking for a sponsor" on mamba. But they removed these criteria a while back. Is there a new way of identifying girls that go for money on mamba? (except for the super obvious seasoned pros, but I am looking more for a part time / freelance type of girl 20-23).It is now accomplished with tags. You can search for tags about sex and sponsorship.

[Adindas]

It still looks bad with the numbers of infection in Ukraine.

I am getting a bit paranoid about health safety.

I like stripclubs to go have few drinks and view the talent. Seems like not all talent will be available if the stripclubs open partially through their backdoors.

But on the other hand it must be buyers market there so using mamba or trying to find newcomers would be easier comparatively.

I am from green country and that's an advantage with less hassle to start the fun.

Seems like I am not able to make my mind. Suggestions dear mongers? Of course I know that it is the risk that I need to decide in the end but still want to hear out what fellow minds has to say.

Try this you could call them either incall or outcall.

https://kievlady.com/en/modeli/cheap-prostitutes/

You could easily find a girl for less than UAH 2000 (e. G. US $73) for an hourly rate.

[Sorbonne]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53632043

This is a great news!

We will soon be able to test the girls at hotel lobby. In Kiev it is a law to disinfect hotel lobby, so the girls are unlikely to catch the virus while waiting.

Hopefully, the test kit will be affordable soon enough.

I would insist on a different rate, if any, for the 90 min. waiting time.

[Fred54]

Try this you could call them either incall or outcall.

https://kievlady.com/en/modeli/cheap-prostitutes/

You could easily find a girl for less than UAH 2000 (e. G. US $73) for an hourly rate.Most of these pics / girls are fake. I think it's one of the worst website to find girls.

Example, first page.

https://kievlady.com/en/modeli/396317-ivanna/

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZivDhPRLU1mNINKSFu0L5CZvG7_1H8DPs7fNdbN56aF6FwJornS-9qT1J_1cXdnxsFTR4IqMMdM2aa9aM5B-0LR2oPcwt3LKXX8dQwcoa05mVSbytqiYaNOZaoCmofvHXX24VVGa4ly8AMhekug2jF7qjv58e3CPX_1tf-aJVbLWVd6JUb_1Ht--JpPqU8x73x_1y9HcbIXm3mAMVC3E1QK50TdDIfG6UzRdW5Fb5fyijsA5eyc9HyO0YUlmDVUTIym5dzI8lCAmufw5iADiPkDNBqpEeMMm9xQg-g8DltI76FeWzUOtiyoTDaPh-jBW3hv41LhPH62mA1DvIoFOTnUnGTcUptQJlqQ

[PhotoSlider]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53632043

This is a great news!

We will soon be able to test the girls at hotel lobby. In Kiev it is a law to disinfect hotel lobby, so the girls are unlikely to catch the virus while waiting.

Hopefully, the test kit will be affordable soon enough.AFAIK, taking a swab from the throat or nose is relatively easy, but then it goes into the reader, and as portable as those are, PCR or antibody test readers will be at the medical lab, unlikely in the hotel lobby.

At the same time I agree with Sorbonne. Hopefully rapid test kits will become available later in the game, those that one could carry in his pocket, and indeed test in the hotel lobby. How affordable? Would the girl agree? Would it still be 90 minutes? Remains to be seen.

I can see the following scenario: upon arrival to Kiev, take your trusted regular to the lab, test her, then go for a cup of tea, or lunch, get the test results in 90 minutes via email. If negative, then keep the girl for as long as you want.

This article says DNA, and COVID is RNA virus. Therefore I assume they talk about RT-PCR or reverse-transcription polymerase chain reaction test. Reverse transcription transforms viral RNA to DNA, and PCR attempts to match that DNA to the best of its ability. Chain means multi-step amplification, means the faster it's done, the less accurate the results are.

PCR test has 65-85% accuracy, meaning 15-25% are false negatives. That is out of 1000 samples with COVID it'll miss about 150-250. Typically it is as simple as poor quality sample collecting by the nurse. Girl may still be the carrier, but the test says she's clear. Also younger children have much higher viral count in their samples, they are likely to have no symptoms but transmit with higher probability. Not sure what are the stats for 18-25 year olds.

Antibodies test requires a blood sample. Different story. More precise, but ladies are unlikely to easily volunteer.

[Adindas]

Most of these pics / girls are fake. I think it's one of the worst website to find girls.

Example, first page.

https://kievlady.com/en/modeli/396317-ivanna/

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZivDhPRLU1mNINKSFu0L5CZvG7_1H8DPs7fNdbN56aF6FwJornS-9qT1J_1cXdnxsFTR4IqMMdM2aa9aM5B-0LR2oPcwt3LKXX8dQwcoa05mVSbytqiYaNOZaoCmofvHXX24VVGa4ly8AMhekug2jF7qjv58e3CPX_1tf-aJVbLWVd6JUb_1Ht--JpPqU8x73x_1y9HcbIXm3mAMVC3E1QK50TdDIfG6UzRdW5Fb5fyijsA5eyc9HyO0YUlmDVUTIym5dzI8lCAmufw5iADiPkDNBqpEeMMm9xQg-g8DltI76FeWzUOtiyoTDaPh-jBW3hv41LhPH62mA1DvIoFOTnUnGTcUptQJlqQ

True. Some are WGs and solely using fake pictures as b&S to get you throughthe door, other might be the dating site, pornsites with intention to get your contact and spam you. But no escort directories, listing website is free from these fake profiles. Even one of the largest one such as "adultwork" and continuosly removing fake profiles is still bombarded by fake profiles.

I think the best court of action is to report it to the website administrator with evidence. If they believe it is fake, they will remove.

Regarding https://kievlady.com A few people have reported using it with success.

[YummyPL]

Most of these pics / girls are fake. I think it's one of the worst website to find girls.

Example, first page.

https://kievlady.com/en/modeli/396317-ivanna/

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZivDhPRLU1mNINKSFu0L5CZvG7_1H8DPs7fNdbN56aF6FwJornS-9qT1J_1cXdnxsFTR4IqMMdM2aa9aM5B-0LR2oPcwt3LKXX8dQwcoa05mVSbytqiYaNOZaoCmofvHXX24VVGa4ly8AMhekug2jF7qjv58e3CPX_1tf-aJVbLWVd6JUb_1Ht--JpPqU8x73x_1y9HcbIXm3mAMVC3E1QK50TdDIfG6UzRdW5Fb5fyijsA5eyc9HyO0YUlmDVUTIym5dzI8lCAmufw5iADiPkDNBqpEeMMm9xQg-g8DltI76FeWzUOtiyoTDaPh-jBW3hv41LhPH62mA1DvIoFOTnUnGTcUptQJlqQFake? I just assumed I could fuck Ivana Alawi for $60 an hour.

[PhotoSlider]

True. Some are WGs and solely using fake pictures as b&S to get you throughthe door, other might be the dating site, pornsites with intention to get your contact and spam you. But no escort directories, listing website is free from these fake profiles. Even one of the largest one such as "adultwork" and continuosly removing fake profiles is still bombarded by fake profiles.

I think the best court of action is to report it to the website administrator with evidence. If they believe it is fake, they will remove.

Regarding https://kievlady.com A few people have reported using it with success.I did use kievlady with success, but in a different way. It was sort of reverse inside out.

First of all, there are no trustworthy websites for finding the girls in Kiev. None. Period. End of story.

Kievlady is a portal, where few thousand girls from dozens and dozens of agencies and apartments have their pictures with parameters listed. Nobody can administer such a resource and keep it up to date.

The other reason is the girls privacy, so they post lookalikes.

Almost every foreign monger coming to Kiev wants to search for girls online and that's doable, just not through the website. Messengers must be used instead. Viber, WhatsApp and Telegram are the best.

Call center asks what you want. You explain to dispatchers your preferences, they send you via Viber pictures to chose from, and voila the girl is in your bed for a certain token of appreciation. Maybe she'll match the pictures sent, maybe not. Maybe there will be bait and switch, and maybe you will meet and send back a couple of uglies without touching them, or maybe the girl will be different, but great anyway. I even had girls matching the pictures.

And frequently those pictures that they send via the messenger are taken from kievlady.com. In the past after the meet, I did the search using the announced stage name of the beauty and found her on kievlady.com. But in the last few years I never requested a girl from a website. Even when it says the girl is available, she can be out of the country. Let the dispatcher do the leg work for you.

Viber is more dynamic, and human dispatcher manually performs the role of non-existing automated middle-tier decision-making application server behind the web front-end. Dispatcher manually sifts through the database of available girls, and returns response to your query. Kiev has enough affordable educated DB programmers. They could have easily kept kievlady.com up-to-date, except that would make it inconvenient for dispatchers, keeping them too confined. Girls come and go, popular ones are available for short intervals of time between the customers, drivers lie to mama-sans, mama-sans lie to dispatchers, remote dispatchers juggle multiple customers and agencies, so there's logistics similar to air traffic control.

So please stop complaining about cheaters and such. Websites are useful only to find after the fact more pictures of the girls you liked, and maybe they'll be cheaper than what the dispatcher requested from you via Viber. Dispatcher partners with multiple agencies. Agencies split the profit or impose a markup, with overlapping dispatchers.

I still prefer this random shooting the fish in the barrel over physically going through the filthy apartments to see the girls face-to-face.

Kiev lady also has a chat. But I never used it.

[Sorbonne]

Most of these pics / girls are fake. I think it's one of the worst website to find girls.

Example, first page.

https://kievlady.com/en/modeli/396317-ivanna/

https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZivDhPRLU1mNINKSFu0L5CZvG7_1H8DPs7fNdbN56aF6FwJornS-9qT1J_1cXdnxsFTR4IqMMdM2aa9aM5B-0LR2oPcwt3LKXX8dQwcoa05mVSbytqiYaNOZaoCmofvHXX24VVGa4ly8AMhekug2jF7qjv58e3CPX_1tf-aJVbLWVd6JUb_1Ht--JpPqU8x73x_1y9HcbIXm3mAMVC3E1QK50TdDIfG6UzRdW5Fb5fyijsA5eyc9HyO0YUlmDVUTIym5dzI8lCAmufw5iADiPkDNBqpEeMMm9xQg-g8DltI76FeWzUOtiyoTDaPh-jBW3hv41LhPH62mA1DvIoFOTnUnGTcUptQJlqQI would love to have a bunga bunga party with this Ivanna.

[Adindas]

I did use kievlady with success, but in a different way. It was sort of reverse inside out.

First of all, there are no trustworthy websites for finding the girls in Kiev. None. Period. End of story.

Kievlady is a portal, where few thousand girls from dozens and dozens of agencies and apartments have their pictures with parameters listed. Nobody can administer such a resource and keep it up to date.

The other reason is the girls privacy, so they post lookalikes.

Almost every foreign monger coming to Kiev wants to search for girls online and that's doable, just not through the website. Messengers must be used instead. Viber, WhatsApp and Telegram are the best.

Call center asks what you want. You explain to dispatchers your preferences, they send you via Viber pictures to chose from, and voila the girl is in your bed for a certain token of appreciation. Maybe she'll match the pictures sent, maybe not. Maybe there will be bait and switch, and maybe you will meet and send back a couple of uglies without touching them, or maybe the girl will be different, but great anyway. I even had girls matching the pictures.

And frequently those pictures that they send via the messenger are taken from kievlady.com. In the past after the meet, I did the search using the announced stage name of the beauty and found her on kievlady.com. But in the last few years I never requested a girl from a website. Even when it says the girl is available, she can be out of the country. Let the dispatcher do the leg work for you.

Viber is more dynamic, and human dispatcher manually performs the role of non-existing automated middle-tier decision-making application server behind the web front-end. Dispatcher manually sifts through the database of available girls, and returns response to your query. Kiev has enough affordable educated DB programmers. They could have easily kept kievlady.com up-to-date, except that would make it inconvenient for dispatchers, keeping them too confined. Girls come and go, popular ones are available for short intervals of time between the customers, drivers lie to mama-sans, mama-sans lie to dispatchers, remote dispatchers juggle multiple customers and agencies, so there's logistics similar to air traffic control.

So please stop complaining about cheaters and such. Websites are useful only to find after the fact more pictures of the girls you liked, and maybe they'll be cheaper than what the dispatcher requested from you via Viber. Dispatcher partners with multiple agencies. Agencies split the profit or impose a markup, with overlapping dispatchers.

I still prefer this random shooting the fish in the barrel over physically going through the filthy apartments to see the girls face-to-face.

Kiev lady also has a chat. But I never used it.

There are a few parties outthere such as exclusive escort agency, night club owners in the city centres, do not like the people to share info about girls listing / directories such as kievlady.com. They will try their best to scaremonger people not to use them, as it is a threat for their business.

I often witness some girls working in the exclusive escort agency, night club are the same girls working in the girls listing / directories. The difference is only that you pay 2-4 times more just because they are working in the more exclusive escort agency, night clubs. On the top of that, cover charge, ladies' drinks, etc.

How many local people are using exclusive escort agencies, visiting night clubs? But this is not to suggest that Escort agency, night clubs are a bad things. Escort agency, night clubs might be suitable or even the only option for some tourists who want a personal assitstance with romantic adventures, who are on very short visit, have very little time to do desk and leg work.

To me escort agencies, visiting night club is just a waste of time as all I need is a quick shag. Spending time drinking, chit chat BS is just a waste of time. I share the opinion that we should let the mongers to make their own informed decision. I could effort to pay escort agencies, visiting night clubs, but why should I pay more and wasting my time for BS chic chat if I could get the same result I want to with less? Also with that sort of money and time I could have more fun with more girls.

Unless they have other purposes to travel, It makes me wonder why people would want to travel miles away if they could get the same result with less money, less time wasting on their front doors.

[PhotoSlider]

To me escort agencies, visiting night club is just a waste of time as all I need is a quick shag.Perhaps I didn't explain it clearly enough.

There was nothing said about night clubs in my post. So agree, night clubs are a complete waste of time.

I am busy, and usually do exactly the same. Quick shag. Most of the days it is 2-3 girls per 24 hours, unless some of them stay longer term. The personal record is 50 girls in 5 weeks in the Fall of 2018, again with some girls staying for few days, therefore rapid fire fucking with 3 girls in 8-9 hours was not out of the ordinary. I am not that insane anymore, as my stays in Kiev are somewhere between 3 and 6 weeks.

When I said agency, I meant whoever is providing the girls via one of the messengers. Not GIA or their reincarnation Kiev Escort Club. Not something Exclusive and Closed. 3-4 years ago I used those as well, but again, agree with you. Too expensive. Even beyond the quick shag, decent Ukrainian girls can be had for much less. So I have many of the same girls that advertise on kievlady, but I get them through Viber, not through web-site. It is more productive, more efficient.

Many of the kievlady.com girls advertise under a phone number of dispatcher call center, or we can say agency. Easy to identify those. 20-30 even a hundred girls with the same phone number. No need for any romantic chit chat.

Simple process with 5 steps.

1. You contact the dispatcher via Viber.

2. Dispatcher shoots you pictures of currently available, but most likely asks your price range and preferences first, unless those are established in prior transactions.

3. You briefly explain. Something like 18-23 years old, good manners, height, weight, breast size, and whatever else is important to you. Many phone Dispatchers can do basic English these days.

4. You pick the candidate.

5. They send.

Not much different from your website search, except in my opinion certain dispatchers after a few calls can serve acceptable quick shags with a much higher likelihood than through the website.

You insist on website, being it more convenient? NP. Except you'll end up talking to one of those dispatchers anyway.

Steps 2 and 3 can be eliminated. Dispatcher can send you daily selection in the morning.

Websites are obsolete.

[DramaFree11]

There are a few parties outthere such as exclusive escort agency, night club owners in the city centres, do not like the people to share info about girls listing / directories such as kievlady.com. They will try their best to scaremonger people not to use them, as it is a threat for their business.

I often witness some girls working in the exclusive escort agency, night club are the same girls working in the girls listing / directories. The difference is only that you pay 2-4 times more just because they are working in the more exclusive escort agency, night clubs. On the top of that, cover charge, ladies' drinks, etc.

How many local people are using exclusive escort agencies, visiting night clubs? But this is not to suggest that Escort agency, night clubs are a bad things. Escort agency, night clubs might be suitable or even the only option for some tourists who want a personal assitstance with romantic adventures, who are on very short visit, have very little time to do desk and leg work..Sorry, there are very few girls High End that even go Night Club now, probably been like this for 5-7 years. Locals barely even go to Clubs anymore, so you are not missing out. There is nothing exclusive about this. High End Escort agency are a huge waste of money. If You start spending more then $200 for a girl in Kiev you are spending way to much for a 5 or 6, maybe a 7 if you are lucky. You can go to many of the surrounding countries and have real models for $200-400, almost impossible in Kiev for newbies.

I have said and many others have said the same, that most of the real High End Girls are not even available to foreigners anymore. They have many options and many prefer to be with a Ukraine Dude's.

[PhotoSlider]

To me escort agencies, visiting night club is just a waste of time as all I need is a quick shag. Spending time drinking, chit chat BS is just a waste of time. I share the opinion that we should let the mongers to make their own informed decision. I could effort to pay escort agencies, visiting night clubs, but why should I pay more and wasting my time for BS chic chat if I could get the same result I want to with less? Also with that sort of money and time I could have more fun with more girls.Exactly! Why pay more, even when time is of essence, and funds are abundant.

To add more substance and relevance to our discussion, please find the detailed report about my Fall 2019 trip. If I remember correctly, it was in distinction section. Please forgive my vanity.

Admittedly I had a luxury of sufficient time on my hands, and this visit there were days when I didn't have any girls at all, because I felt like dedicating my time to other activities. But in the more distant past I also had short visits, and that Viber methodology has been satisfactory.

Think what is easier for provider? Going through the hoops with web authoring, and customers constantly complaining about the bait and switch, or forward home-made pix via Viber and turn quick profit?

Anyway, that visit duration was 6 weeks, 28 girls, including 4 alternating regulars staying with me for few days at a time. I recall 48 hours with 5 different girls, having the 6th one rejected for having skin condition. On a separate occasion had 3 different girls one after another in 7 hours.

Out of those 24 hourly girls there were seven rated 9, six at 8, and six at 7 based on looks. There was one girl with face I rated at 4, but she was super nice, so I had mercy, and fucked her. Her body was 8, attitude 8, and performance 9. I was sober. Have no regrets. Hehehe.

There's more detail on those ladies body, attitude and performance stats in the above report. Hourly girls were sourced via Viber, and not from an exclusive agency. I used 3 Viber phone numbers, and they used kievlady as their image repository. Girls were mostly in the 1700-2000 UAH per hour range + 100 for transportation. Never above 2000 and never under 1500 UAH per hour. I believe I rejected something like 20-30% upon looking at them, and not being satisfied. I am native Russian speaker. Another close friend of mine used the same resources. He doesn't speak any Russian, was in Kiev for about a week, and his objective was 3 girls a day. He left immensely happy.

Locals fuck girls cheaper, or for free, but as we all know nothing is free.

[Sorbonne]

Yesterday I went over to a local Vodafone shop in Ukraine and complained that I couldn't install the vodafone app, as it says "This app is not available in your country."

It turned out that it was because my android phone was registered in the USA with Google. But I did not want to change that setting.

So the staff at the office manually transferred the app from their computer to my phone using a cable.

It worked, and I was able to top up using my US bank card.

[Kozerog]

Yesterday I went over to a local Vodafone shop in Ukraine ...
Thanks for suggesting this. At the shop I went to, guy downloaded .apk file from personal website. Evidently, they are familiar with the problem. When I attempted top-up, BankOfAmerica Visa denied charge but Ally Mastercard accepted. Both USA banks. From what I can tell, service stays dormant, with no loss of number, for about a year after last top-up, then becomes active after top-up big enough to pay monthly tariff. So I'll probably keep this SIM indefinitely, rather than buying new SIMs each summer.

[Adindas]

Sorry, there are very few girls High End that even go Night Club now, probably been like this for 5-7 years. Locals barely even go to Clubs anymore, so you are not missing out. There is nothing exclusive about this. High End Escort agency are a huge waste of money. If You start spending more then $200 for a girl in Kiev you are spending way to much for a 5 or 6, maybe a 7 if you are lucky. You can go to many of the surrounding countries and have real models for $200-400, almost impossible in Kiev for newbies.

I have said and many others have said the same, that most of the real High End Girls are not even available to foreigners anymore. They have many options and many prefer to be with a Ukraine Dude's.It is only the clueless tourists would want to spend US $ 200 an hour. Let alone it is in Ukraine where the income per capita is much less that average in the EU. For this you would better visit FKKs in Germany, much better atmosphere and you have wide selection of girls.

[DramaFree11]

It is only the clueless tourists would want to spend US $ 200 an hour. Let alone it is in Ukraine where the income per capita is much less that average in the EU. For this you would better visit FKKs in Germany, much better atmosphere and you have wide selection of girls.Correct, but there is way more guys paying way more then $200 in Kiev then you would ever know. Most deny or leave out this details and claim they are hooking up with 8/9's for $75, not possible in any destination, especially Kiev.

[Imoraig]

Been here a for a couple of days by now. Few tourists, but local people very active and cafes and bars and terrazes look busy as normal, only after 23.30 h things get slow weekdays since not many tourists in town. 90% of people wear no mask and in general in restaurants and cafes no stress about covid as in other places.

Strip clubs some change opening times like Rio now is 15 h to 22 h, not sure this time will make great experience, but I will check some day. I checked by night instead another strip club Princess Men Club down to khreschatyk hotel this one was open at night, fun vibe and show, not many people but not empty. Many different girls like more than 30 since this is probably one of the few operative at night.

Massage places operative as normal, tried Body to Body. Massage in Kiev at Shota Rustaveli St, 26. Not the girls advertised, but young, kind ones and good experience. Of course do not expect models in such places, but some pleasure and kind attention possible.

Clubs lets see on the weekend, open to suggestions on what will be busy if someone knows more.

[YummyPL]

I finally arrived yesterday and things in Airport went smoothly. I already had an Ukrainian SIM card so the app setup was easy, I have a long term visa so no insurance required, and passport control went smoothly.

I have conatcts for about 10 girls from Mamba and SA. I don't have time to maintain writing to more than that. I joined SA back at the start of the year when I thought I was going to be here at the end of March. My membership ended in April but a few of the girls were still in contact on WhatsApp/Viber.

I met the first SA girl this afternoon. I was jet lagged and didn't want to waste time working the more difficult options. She was about 30 years old (said 28 on SA profile), thin and fairly attractive. I'd say she was a 7+ in the past but time has not been her friend and I would put her as a 6+ now. Slim body but not as tight as the 19 year olds I am so fond of. In any case, just a normal girl trying to get by.

She wasn't asking for a specific amount which was actually challenging for me. We spent about an hour talking and about 2 hours in bed. Nice enthusiasm and really warm. A good experience for being so jet-lagged.

I gave her 1200 Hryvnas and she seemed content with that. I have a long road ahead of me and I might call her back. She sent me a thank you nte about an hour after she left me. It was nice.

I am meeting another SA girl tomorrow.

Also it is about 30 degrees here--perfect girl watching weather. lots of hotties on the street. No 9/10s by my standards but still lots of eye candy.

More later.

[Fred54]

I finally arrived yesterday and things in Airport went smoothly. I already had an Ukrainian SIM card so the app setup was easy, I have a long term visa so no insurance required, and passport control went smoothly.

I have conatcts for about 10 girls from Mamba and SA. I don't have time to maintain writing to more than that. I joined SA back at the start of the year when I thought I was going to be here at the end of March. A few of the girls were still in contact.

I met the first SA girl this afternoon. I was jet lagged and didn't want to waste time working the more difficult options. She was about 30 years old (said 28 on SA profile), thin and fairly attractive. I'd say she was a 7+ in the past but time has not been her friend and I would put her as a 6+ now. Slim body but not as tight as the 19 year olds I am so fond of. In any case, just a normal girl trying to get by.

She wasn't asking for a specific amount which was actually challenging for me. We spent about an hour talking and about 2 hours in bed. Nice enthusiasm and really warm. A good experience for being so jet-lagged.

I gave her 1200 Hryvnas and she seemed content with that. I have a long road ahead of me and I might call her back. She sent me a thank you nte about an hour after she left me. It was nice.

I am meeting another SA girl tomorrow.

More later.What is SA?

[PhotoSlider]

What is SA?I believe it is called SeekingArrangements. Global service. Try googling for details. Wikipedia explains this:"Sugar babies create profiles and join the website free of charge. Sugar baby members who register with their university email address automatically qualify for a Premium Membership status. Sugar Daddies and Mamas are able to register for site services free of charge, which provides them with a limited number of messages. After the trial period has expired, members have the option to either purchase credits for expanded messaging privileges on a monthly basis or on an annual basis with the Diamond Package."

Wish I could be a sugar baby for 18-22 years old Ukrainian sugar mamas. Maybe I should sign up for online classes at one of the universities.

[Sorbonne]

Wish I could be a sugar baby for 18-22 years old Ukrainian sugar mamas. Maybe I should sign up for online classes at one of the universities.


Who knows, maybe some members of Millionaire / Billionaire Girls Club in Kiev with inclination for older men will contact you if you post fake photos of Kevin Costner look-alike, if not Harrison Ford or Clint Eastwood look-alike, and one of them could be a gem.

There has been a poster of Kevin Costner doing some sort of advertisement at a mall in my city in Ukraine for a few years now.

In fact this is something I should think about doing myself, as I have two university email addresses from my alma mater. No, one of them is not @sorbonne.edu.

[YummyPL]

What is SA?As PhotoSlider said, it is Seeking Arrangements. There is a thread dedicated to it on this board. I have had some success with it in other places in the world. However, I would not necessarily recommend it for Ukraine. Mostly girls with an over inflated opinion of self worth and scam artists that want money for nothing. If you are willing to do the work, you can find some good ones. But the best ones disappear very quickly.

There are actually some very attractive women there (if real) but most of the most beautiful Ukrainian girls are only interested in getting paid thousands of dollars for a trip to Dubai. I actually don't know if they are real as I have never invited any of them to Dubai. SA is great for the USA and Latin America. Or at least it was 5-6 years ago. As has been said, "The world has moved on... "

[PhotoSlider]

Who knows, maybe some members of Millionaire / Billionaire Girls Club in Kiev with inclination for older men will contact you if you post fake photos of Kevin Costner look-alike.I am young at heart, not even 60 yet, and insist it should be photos of Brad Pitt!

[YummyPL]

Second full day in Kyiv. I am already exhausted.

So I met my second SA girl. 32 years old. I saw this girl's passport so I know it is true. Super tight body, decent pretty face. By my standards I would rate her an easy 7. I think I have pretty high standards. For me a 6 is slightly better than average and a 7 is significantly better than average, but is not a beauty queen or model. A 7 is enough to turn my head if she were walking down the street. But this girl's body was very tight. About 160 cm and 45 kilos of lean firmness. The body is what is most important to me so overall for my taste probably a 7+.

In any case we spent about 2 hours talking and drinking a couple of beers and then about 3 hours in bed. Very active and passionate. Put on a good show of enjoying herself (maybe she did but that is not my real concern, although I like to think she did). I finished twice and after a rest she insisted on trying for a 3rd. She got me there after a good deal of effort. It has been a very, very long time since a working girl got 3 pops out of me. I paid her 6,000 hryvnia. For me she was better than most FKK girls I ever met. Certainly better than anything I can get in the USA for that price. Maybe it is my age.

We discussed a long term arrangement. I am sure DramaFree will say I am paying too much, but I have experience in his beloved Moscow and this girl more than made up for her age with sensuality and effort. At 20 years younger than me, she is a keeper. We are looking at about 25 k a month for 4-6 meetings. I am planning to see her again on Thursday to see if I feel the same and to solidify the agreement.

The meeting today makes me think the girl I met yesterday can't possibly be only 30. I am doubting if I will see her again. Maybe I can find an even better one than today going forward. I am happy for now.

I have no solid plan for tomorrow so I will look to contacting some apartment girl.

More later.

[PhotoSlider]

It has been a very, very long time since a working girl got 3 pops out of me. I paid her 6,000 hryvnia. For me she was better than most FKK girls I ever met. Certainly better than anything I can get in the USA for that price. Maybe it is my age.It is Kiev Magic and maybe you've been away for way too long.

But why lock yourself up with one girl? Understandably, stability is good. No need for trial and error. But long term contract may adversely affect provider's performance. Unless you pay her per meeting or at the end of the month, it seems a little risky. Kozerog's payment plan is perhaps most reliable. What if tomorrow you get impressed even more with another lady? And then yet another.

Anyway, please forgive my interfering with your thought process, I am simply jealous of your success, and huge thanks for sharing the joy with relevant Forum members. I totally understand and respect.

Your pay is half of an hourly girl rate. Have myself one of favorite regulars in Kiev for 5000 UAH regardless of the meeting length. Usually 6-8 hours, but sometimes she meets me right after I check in into AirBnB upon the arrival from KBP, when 3-4 hours is max what I can do. We never discuss compensation, I simply slip an envelope with cash into her purse on her way out, and her eyes beam with a smile. Gorgeous young lady! Body is definitely a 10, attitude through the roof, and performance to die for. Looks. Out of this world.

Someone here (maybe Kozerog?) explained that 7 means a girl that is better than 60% of the population. Simple logic. From 0 to 10% is rated 1 and ugly. Therefore rated 6 is better than 50%, and 10 is better than 90%, or top 10%.

Everybody has his own criteria. To me attitude and performance are two most important factors. For others it is face, or body, or breast size, BBBJTC, and so on. Top 30% of Ukrainian female population is definitely not bad at all. And it seems performance of your lady was at least 9, if not straight 10. You are the lucky one in paradise right now.

[Sorbonne]

I am young at heart, not even 60 yet, and insist it should be photos of Brad Pitt!You're so intelligent and wise that I thought you'd be a little older. My apologies!

[YummyPL]

But why lock yourself up with one girl? Understandably, stability is good. No need for trial and error. But long term contract may adversely affect provider's performance. Unless you pay her per meeting or at the end of the month, it seems a little risky. Kozerog's payment plan is perhaps most reliable. What if tomorrow you get impressed even more with another lady? And then yet another.One of the best things about slightly more mature women is that they understand a paying man is never "locked up. " And I think she has more clarity on this because I am renting a separate apartment just for meetings. I don't want her her, or any girl, to have visibility on where I really live. And she can't possibly believe I would be spending the money for a separate apart just to meet with her.

Our general agreement is 4000 for 3-4 hour meetings and 6000 for overnights with a guarantee of seeing her enough to get close to the 25 k mark plus or minus. I think she wants to make the plus side of that, so I am expecting good performance to continue. I think for a woman her age, she thinks she has it good.

That said, I am seeing someone tomorrow at noon for 3 hours for 5000 that says she is 18 and she has sent me what she says are real pictures and she looks phenomenal. I will not hesitate to send her away with nothing in her pocket, not even taxi fare, if the pictures she sent are not accurate or her appearance isn't just as good. If you lie about looks, you get nothing. I cannot guarantee performance, but I can have standards for looks.

I took a break today because of the early appointment tomorrow. Pacing myself...

[PhotoSlider]

You're so intelligent and wise that I thought you'd be a little older. My apologies!No need to apologize, but thank you.

I solemnly promise to become mature, sensual and the most responsive to the needs of young sugarmamas. Perhaps English as a Second Language classes at Kyiv National University would give me an eventual option of having educational email address aside from other benefits, especially when pandemic gets over and teaching moves into more intimate, face-to-face environment.

[PhotoSlider]

One of the best things about slightly more mature women is that they understand a paying man is never "locked up.What a great slogan:

"Paying man is never locked up".

Can I please use it for my T-shirt business, that I am about to start for the last 10 years?

The other one is:

"Fuck this shit! Let's talk about them girls".

Yummy, your approach is solid. I considered renting a second "el cheapo" apartment, but never implemented it. Would come in so handy when double-booked! Also doing it for safety and privacy reasons.

Thank you for keeping the Torch high for the Forum!

[Kozerog]

One of the best things about slightly more mature women is that they understand a paying man is never "locked up. " That's why I continue to treat my girl like an escort, even though this is our fourth summer together, so in fact she's more like a sugarbaby with arrangement. Money on the table (₴1000 notes nowadays) when she arrives, she picks it up on the way out, same routine as ever. All girls want security, but the way to give security is simply see her frequently, even if not in the mood, versus making promises. Actions speak louder than words.

For example, I had an ear infection last week that temporarily killed my sex drive. (Back to normal as of Saturday after treatment at Oxford Medical for absurdly low price by USA standards. Note that they only speak Russian / Ukrainian.) But I invited the girl over anyway, we watched some YouTube together instead of sex, I paid her the usual fee. Consistently seeing and paying her is much better than making promises of being with her forever, setting up monthly arrangements, etc.

My patience for women's BS was never high and nowadays it is closer to zero than ever. Sure, I'm tempted by other girls, but they don't just magically show up and obey like slaves of my imagination. Every new woman brings a new set of problems to be brought under control. Much simpler to just use the trouble-free woman I have, close my eyes, and imagine someone else if I want variety. I should note that the girl I have, regardless of her numerical ranking, regularly gets me hard (other than when sick like with that ear infection).

BTW, my musical social activity is back in operation. Officially, there are rules in place to ensure distancing. In practice, everyone crowded together, no one wearing masks. In dim lighting, I can pass for late 40's, so single women in their 30's and 40's often give indications of interest. Some of them ex-trophy wives who are still excellent looking. Tempting, but then I remember that these are not working girls, and wouldn't react well to immediate talk of "classic sex with condom, oral and cunnilingus without condom, GFE so kissing on the mouth, ₴3000 for two hours, American style payment: money on the table upon arrival, pick it up on the way out but not before please. These conditions acceptable to you?" I'm probably not even capable of normal talk with women anymore. Plus there is no way I have the patience for training civilians to act like working girls, especially not entitled ex-trophy wife types. Again, best stick with that girl I have and imagine being with these civilians.

[YummyPL]

Someone here (maybe Kozerog?) explained that 7 means a girl that is better than 60% of the population. Simple logic. From 0 to 10% is rated 1 and ugly. Therefore rated 6 is better than 50%, and 10 is better than 90%, or top 10%.I actually always treated it as a standard bell curve with a distribution out to -50 deviation. This meant there were a lot more 5's, fewer 6's, significantly fewer 7's, fairly rare 8's, exceptionally rare 9's, and almost non-existent 10's. In fact, I always would say I have never seen a 10 in my life. Your system is actually so much easier. I think I will adopt it! I will count the ratings for women under 40 years old because who the fuck cares how pretty a 40+ year old is?

In that case, I'd say my Friday girl was a high 7 (closer to the better than 70%) and my Saturday was a high 8 (closer to the better than 80% Compared to the USA, Kyiv skews right with the average female population here being well better than the average population there for under 40's. Kyiv may skew slightly left from Moscow but not nearly as much as DramaFree suggests (I just have to think some woman really fucked him over hard for him to still be spewing so much vitriol after being away from Kyiv so long).

But enough about ratings. I met an 18 year old (confirmed with ID) Mamba girl for 3 hours today. I'd rate her at least a solid 9 on the PhotoSlider / Kozerog? Scale. Going back to the FKK standard, I think she was better than 80% of the women I see in FKKs. She was firm but not as firm as my ideal and taller than my ideal (I tend to prefer short girls and this one was around 175 cm), but she was slim and, had great breasts (I like small and firm with puffy nipples and her's were pretty close to this ideal), sweet ass, and pretty face. Her biggest drawback was her teeth were not great but they were not bad. And did I mention she was 18? There is absolutely something about having an 18 year old. A little reserved to start but warmed up after a while. We discussed long term some and I am seeing her again tomorrow at noon. Did I mention she was 18?!


My patience for women's BS was never high and nowadays it is closer to zero than ever. I had a 6 PM meeting for drinks with a 19 yo SA girl. I knew she was a scammer but she checked all the boxes of what I wanted so I arranged a meeting. Blah, blah, blah, long story short, we set up the meeting a week ago. This past Saturday she told me it was going to be her birthday on Monday (today, which I am sure wss pure BS) and we can celebrate together. I told her I would be happy to celebrate with her and I would buy her dinner and drinks, but that she wasn't getting any significant "gifts" until after we were intimate. I also told her that reliability and punctuality were especially important to me. She said she still wanted to meet. I confirmed the meeting 2 hours out (not long after I finished up with the 18 yo), and she responded that she still wanted to come, an hour out she said was getting ready, 30 minutes out that she was on the way. At 10 after our meeting time, I asked her status, and she said she would be there soon. At 30 minutes after I asked and she said soon, and at that point I said, don't bother, I was no longer interested. I immediately blocked her number. I knew she was a scam anyway. Zero tolerance for that crap.

[DramaFree11]

I actually always treated it as a standard bell curve with a distribution out to -50 deviation. This meant there were a lot more 5's, fewer 6's, significantly fewer 7's, fairly rare 8's, exceptionally rare 9's, and almost non-existent 10's. In fact, I always would say I have never seen a 10 in my life. Your system is actually so much easier. I think I will adopt it! I will count the ratings for women under 40 years old because who the fuck cares how pretty a 40+ year old is?

In that case, I'd say my Friday girl was a high 7 (closer to the better than 70%) and my Saturday was a high 8 (closer to the better than 80% Compared to the USA, Kyiv skews right with the average female population here being well better than the average population there for under 40's. Kyiv may skew slightly left from Moscow but not nearly as much as DramaFree suggests (I just have to think some woman really fucked him over hard for him to still be spewing so much vitriol after being away from Kyiv so long).

But enough about ratings. I met an 18 year old (confirmed with ID) Mamba girl for 3 hours today. I'd rate her at least a solid 9 on the PhotoSlider / Kozerog? Scale. Going back to the FKK standard, I think she was better than 80% of the women I see in FKKs. She was firm but not as firm as my ideal and taller than my ideal (I tend to prefer short girls and this one was around 175 cm), but she was slim and, had great breasts (I like small and firm with puffy nipples and her's were pretty close to this ideal), sweet ass, and pretty face. Her biggest drawback was her teeth were not great but they were not bad. And did I mention she was 18? There is absolutely something about having an 18 year old. A little reserved to start but warmed up after a while. We discussed long term some and I am seeing her again tomorrow at noon. Did I mention she was 18?!.M.

Honestly, your report is pretty good. There is zero comparison, Moscow is probably cheaper then Kiev now. There actually is a nightlife in Russia, Kiev's nightlife terrible, Prior to the Virus.

Moscow you can have 7-8's all day long, and possibly a 9. In Kiev it is possible maybe to have one, multiple is complete fabrication or extremely very low standards. I was there during the end of the good times, at the end it was not good. I can only imagine now. I agree with your scale, but there are 10's. Moscow, San Diego, Vegas, New York, Europe parts of Latin America.

[PhotoSlider]

I actually always treated it as a standard bell curve with a distribution out to -50 deviation. This meant there were a lot more 5's, fewer 6's, significantly fewer 7's, fairly rare 8's, exceptionally rare 9's, and almost non-existent 10's. In fact, I always would say I have never seen a 10 in my life. Your system is actually so much easier. I think I will adopt it! I will count the ratings for women under 40 years old because who the fuck cares how pretty a 40+ year old is?Yeah, and I was never interested in children under 18. Too much turmoil, they don't know what they want)).

18-19 are fresh and attractive, but there's never ending hustle with some of them! On average 19-21 is like 18 carat gold, and 21-23 is the best.

Your bell curve was probably more like Poisson distribution. Hopefully not as many 1-2-3's. Lots of average 5's and 6's in the middle, and very few beauties. Breaking it down into 10 equal bins ensures some hope of comparative consistency in our research.

I also rate some of the girls higher than 10. Those are so called statistical outliers. Always based on attitude and performance. Never on looks or body. In the rare moment when I exlaim:

- This girl is out of this world! She blew me away!! I am in love, and from now on will be strictly monogamous!

Those girls I may rate higher than 10.

I also rate separately kissing, love making and other factors contributing to performance. Kissing can go as high as 21. Providing ratings to outliers is totally subjective and relative. I do it for my own amusement.

[Fred54]

I actually always treated it as a standard bell curve with a distribution out to -50 deviation. This meant there were a lot more 5's, fewer 6's, significantly fewer 7's, fairly rare 8's, exceptionally rare 9's, and almost non-existent 10's. In fact, I always would say I have never seen a 10 in my life. Your system is actually so much easier. I think I will adopt it! I will count the ratings for women under 40 years old because who the fuck cares how pretty a 40+ year old is?

In that case, I'd say my Friday girl was a high 7 (closer to the better than 70%) and my Saturday was a high 8 (closer to the better than 80% Compared to the USA, Kyiv skews right with the average female population here being well better than the average population there for under 40's. Kyiv may skew slightly left from Moscow but not nearly as much as DramaFree suggests (I just have to think some woman really fucked him over hard for him to still be spewing so much vitriol after being away from Kyiv so long).

But enough about ratings. I met an 18 year old (confirmed with ID) Mamba girl for 3 hours today. I'd rate her at least a solid 9 on the PhotoSlider / Kozerog? Scale. Going back to the FKK standard, I think she was better than 80% of the women I see in FKKs. She was firm but not as firm as my ideal and taller than my ideal (I tend to prefer short girls and this one was around 175 cm), but she was slim and, had great breasts (I like small and firm with puffy nipples and her's were pretty close to this ideal), sweet ass, and pretty face. Her biggest drawback was her teeth were not great but they were not bad. And did I mention she was 18? There is absolutely something about having an 18 year old. A little reserved to start but warmed up after a while. We discussed long term some and I am seeing her again tomorrow at noon. Did I mention she was 18?!.Who is this mamba jewel?

[Sorbonne]

who the fuck cares how pretty a 40+ year old is?
Well, the prettier, the better.

I'm still attracted by some capable women, such as Jacinda Ardern (40).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/52795868

[YummyPL]

Well, the prettier, the better.

I'm still attracted by some capable women, such as Jacinda Arden (40).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/52795868There is no accounting for taste! But seriously, there are plenty of women over 40 that I would fuck. I'm just not sure that there are any over 40 that I would pay to fuck. There probably are, but they are not any that I am seeing around.

[Sorbonne]

There is no accounting for taste! But seriously, there are plenty of women over 40 that I would fuck. I'm just not sure that there are any over 40 that I would pay to fuck. There probably are, but they are not any that I am seeing around.I wouldn't pay to f* Ms. Ardern, either.

[YummyPL]

Who is this mamba jewel?Sorry Fred, contribute enough to be a senior member and maybe I will discuss it with you in PM. No one here is likely to post specific links to their favorites on the open forum.

That said, she does not advertise herself as 18. I think that must be because she started working before she was 18 and had to say she was older. Be careful out there everyone.

[DramaFree11]

There is no accounting for taste! But seriously, there are plenty of women over 40 that I would fuck. I'm just not sure that there are any over 40 that I would pay to fuck. There probably are, but they are not any that I am seeing around.After agree with that, they would have to be seriously hot for me to pay, but even then I doubt.

[PhotoSlider]

But it was my understanding that whoever owned Rio relocated Mandarin to downtown and renamed it as Scarlet, thereby I did not see much difference between the two. So I'm a little puzzled by PS' comment. Maybe just a different perception? Or was I drunk? I've been to both only a few times each and liked them both.Correct. Same owner for all of them: Rio, Tootsie, Scarlet, and Mandarin. To me Scarlet is like a typical strip bar with a regular show. Lots of empty space, not as close interaction as Rio. Moved to this new location because Mandarin was too far away for walk over. Perhaps an attempt to compete with Arena City Tourist Magnet.

Mandarin on the other hand somehow reminded me the Cotton Club movie. Ever changing kaleidoscope of costumes, choreographed show, enthusiastic performers, singers with good voices. Very good kitchen. Girls seemed to enjoy the action, and naive me thought it was more sincere. I even checked out one called Albina in 2014, when in 36 hours between KBP touchdown and takeoff I had Poroshenko inauguration and 6 girls including a threesome, excluding 2 rejected uglies, and meeting one intelligent beauty that is still in contact with me. So my impression of Mandarin that it was different.

[Sorbonne]

Correct. Same owner for all of them: Rio, Tootsie, Scarlet, and Mandarin. To me Scarlet is like a typical strip bar with a regular show. Lots of empty space, not as close interaction as Rio. Moved to this new location because Mandarin was too far away for walk over. Perhaps an attempt to compete with Arena City Tourist Magnet.

Mandarin on the other hand somehow reminded me the Cotton Club movie. Ever changing kaleidoscope of costumes, choreographed show, enthusiastic performers, singers with good voices. Very good kitchen. Girls seemed to enjoy the action, and naive me thought it was more sincere. I even checked out one called Albina in 2014, when in 36 hours between KBP touchdown and takeoff I had Poroshenko inauguration and 6 girls including a threesome, excluding 2 rejected uglies, and meeting one intelligent beauty that is still in contact with me. So my impression of Mandarin that it was different.

Yes, perhaps what I miss the most about Mandarin is the food. I mean it wan't top notch Chinese, but it was actually the only Chinese food I could get in Kiev at that time, as few others available were totally overpriced and terrible. Mandarin at least served decent Chinese food at moderate price. I don't remember if Scarlet serves Chinese food. Maybe they do if Scarlet means Red Chinese.

But in recent years more and more adventurous restaurants have entered Kiev, and I'm happy to see Musashi now have several locations around Kiev.

[YummyPL]

I wouldn't pay to f* Ms. Ardern, either.Actually, I might drop 2k gryvnia just to say I fucked the prime minister of New Zealand. But not if she were some "normal" girl.

[YummyPL]

So after 4 days in a row with my mamba girl (including this morning), I arranged a second meeting with SA girl #2 (the girl that got 3 pops out of me).

Unfortunately not nearly as nice an experience. Same girl, same skills, same effort. She actually has top-notch skills. Super BBJ with ball licking. She has a very tight body but she looked just a little too old for me after 4 days with an eighteen year old. She really tried to please me. But she is also just a little "too professional" for my taste. She clearly has a lot of experience pleasing men. It is just not my thing in the long game. She also talks too much. She seems very American for those that know what I am implying by that.

If any good contributor is interested in her contact information, let me know by PM. Early 30's, attractive, tight body, BBJ with ball and perineum licking, DFK, and porn star effort.

[Desin]

Heya all!

First post on this forum. I joined in since I'm looking forward to have a trip to Kiev, with all the delights of the city in my mind. And all the sightseeing I want to have, is them ladies.

I've read this thread and done my googling. It seems like the sites mentioned to get some paid company are mainly agencies, or at least fake photos. TinEye doesn't recognize but a few of them, but then again, it doesn't identify the Instagram / Twitter pictures, I believe? So, if even ukrgo.com is not to be trusted, then I'll place my bets on Tinder & this Mamba, which I've never used.

And now for the questions. I'm 37 years old. I've aged quite moderately, so I can pass some years younger. I don't know how Mamba works, but in Tinder it's all about the age. If your age is above the range the girl has, you won't be seen to her. But how is it in Ukraine. I've gotten the impression that it's not that rare that a woman below the age of 25 would be with an older man, maybe even 35 years old or higher? Or does this belong into the past? And how about the ones that are looking for sponsorship. What is your experience, are they searching (in Tinder) for anything between 30 and 50, or should I try to go lower and place myself at the age of 34 or even 30, and try to 'lure' some girls into the sin? I do prefer honesty, so I have no problem to tell the truth of myself, my age and my intentions (and oh, does it make the interaction so much more delightful, when it's all direct and open! But, at the same time, I know that Tinder is Tinder and girls are girls. Age is a number, but it's a number in their head and those who haven't gone above the 30 (yet), might not be searching for them in the app. So the biggest pool of users is. Probably - at the 18-26 year old women, who are looking for 18-30 (to 35 yo) men. Or at least in my country they would, because age difference is such an issue here for so many. But is Ukraine different in this? And the girls who are willing to do it for the money?

If possible, I'll try to avoid just 'professionals' and go for those with whom you can talk and get to know each other a bit, and then the arrangement is based on the feeling that you can get along. And it's just a mutually beneficial thing.

So, please, give me advises. What should I do, how should I play it out? I'm looking for pretty young women, from 18 to 23, with whom I could meet for an hour to three hours, depending on their personality and English skills. My best take would be on a bit of an intellectual university-type of girls, since these I can have conversations with for hours and hours. My aim is to find at least one, preferably two (hopefully with a hot girlfriend) with whom I could alterate 5 days with. And pay for it like max 100 euros / dollars a day (that's like 50 euros for an hour, so I could have one at the day and another at the evening). Is this a realistic, possible expectation?

The two girls I meet regularly in my home country are something like "8" or "9" for those who like cute and pretty girls, instead of those model-like faces. So, even though I'm tempted to use money on a superbly beautiful Ukrainian woman just for the sake of the experience, I know that it's not probably worth it, since good sex is more about physical connection and sexual preferences than the face. But the face has to be "good enough", for it to be great. Something you can look at and smile. Because she's so cute and you get to fuck her right now.

[PhotoSlider]

Actually, I might drop 2k gryvnia just to say I fucked the prime minister of New Zealand. But not if she were some "normal" girl.Please ask her if she does threesomes.

Or I can go totally separate. Certainly not for bragging rights. Only to support the economy of Great Country of New Zealand.

[PhotoSlider]

Yes, perhaps what I miss the most about Mandarin is the food. I mean it wan't top notch Chinese, but it was actually the only Chinese food I could get in Kiev at that time, as few others available were totally overpriced and terrible. Mandarin at least served decent Chinese food at moderate price. I don't remember if Scarlet serves Chinese food. Maybe they do if Scarlet means Red Chinese.

But in recent years more and more adventurous restaurants have entered Kiev, and I'm happy to see Musashi now have several locations around Kiev.Oh yeah, there's so much variety these days in Kiev! Chinese, Vietnamese, American, Italian, Crimean Tatar, Georgian, fusion, - anything. Affordable and great fast food or expensive upscale. Abundant. Great food culture.

Scarlet serves the same as Rio. Sushi and other simple to prepare options. Perhaps facilities are not as great, as they were on Mandarin boat.

[PhotoSlider]

So after 4 days in a row with my mamba girl (including this morning), I arranged a second meeting with SA girl #2 (the girl that got 3 pops out of me).

Unfortunately not nearly as nice an experience. Same girl, same skills, same effort. She actually has top-notch skills. Super BBJ with ball licking. She has a very tight body but she looked just a little too old for me after 4 days with an eighteen year old. She really tried to please me. But she is also just a little "too professional" for my taste. She clearly has a lot of experience pleasing men. It is just not my thing in the long game. She also talks too much. She seems very American for those that know what I am implying by that.

If any good contributor is interested in her contact information, let me know by PM. Early 30's, attractive, tight body, BBJ with ball and perineum licking, DFK, and porn star effort.Great that you have more than enough alternative options besides these two SA ladies.

If I may ask, why did SA#2 impressed you so much in the first place? Was it a novelty factor, - first time meeting her? Or simply you landed at KBP, checked in at your apartment No. 2, she arrived, and after being deprived of Ukrainian attention for a long time, her impact was so strong? Or was it indeed her skills, as you explained.

Or maybe she thought she has you, and you felt it, and didn't like the vibe?

Understandably it is difficult to argue with charms of the fresh 18 years old. I just recently escaped one remotely after staying together for almost 2 years.

Anyway, doesn't matter. Seems you are enjoying life exactly as one should while in Kiev.

[Sorbonne]

If any good contributor is interested in her contact information, let me know by PM. Early 30's, attractive, tight body, BBJ with ball and perineum licking, DFK, and porn star effort.

No, thanks.

[YummyPL]

If I may ask, why did SA#2 impressed you so much in the first place?There are lots of reasons but I think you nailed the main reason when you said something about me being away from the game a little too long. She was attractive and she put in absolutely maximum effort. Who wouldn't like that after not having any candy for so long?

[YummyPL]

No, thanks.Somehow I didn't think you would be) If you are ever interested in getting together for a beer, let me know.

[PhotoSlider]

I'm 37 years old. I've aged quite moderately, so I can pass some years younger.Wish I had your problems!

When I was 50, one 18 years old Ukrainian girl flattered me, saying I look 38, or maybe she didn't want to be together with a person more than 20 years older. I told her the truth, she cranked up her sex drive trying to wear me out, until we had no condoms left, and had to get supplies at the nearby pharmacy.

There is no taboo or stigma in Ukrainian society against young 18-23 years old ladies of your interest to be seen with 37, or 57, or even 67 years old admirers in public. You'd be surprised to see the age gap of typical couples at dinners and theater outings. And if interaction is in the privacy of your apartment, then who cares!

Admittedly not every girl would be interested in such a contact, but selection is still rich. Teen Tinder girls in Kiev meet gentlemen almost twice your age to mutual satisfaction and enjoyment. Many of them sincerely like it, even more of them are great actresses.

It is completely different society. Will take some effort getting used to, readjusting your thinking, and for the first visit it may take awhile, but the longer you stay, the faster cultural shock will subside. 2 weeks is minimum. 4-6 weeks is good.

And you mostly have to do it yourself. Do not listen to anybody, except me, hehehe.

Tinder is good. Mamba works well for some. Yes there are scammers. But there are also exceptionally sweet young ladies, that will stay in your memory forever. And I mean it in the most positive way. Love Kiev myself.

Wish I had your problems!

[PhotoSlider]

There are lots of reasons but I think you nailed the main reason when you said something about me being away from the game a little too long. She was attractive and she put in absolutely maximum effort. Who wouldn't like that after not having any candy for so long?Oh yeah, usually my first hourly girl upon arriving through KBP seems like a Goddess! And then I go insane with one after another, until it settles a bit. Then to tone it down, I see who of my reliable regulars is available. But again, while taking the pleasure in stability, I need to experience the excitement of discovering the new girl at least once a week, maybe while sending my regular away for some pampering at the beauty salon.

I am away from Kiev for over 10 months now. Life is unbearable.

[YummyPL]

I've gotten the impression that it's not that rare that a woman below the age of 25 would be with an older man, maybe even 35 years old or higher? Don't listen to PhotoSlider, despite being 58 years old, he is a handsome devil. I, on the other hand, am aesthetically challenged and 52 years old. I have never had any luck with Tinder. If my first impression is my age and face, I will get nowhere. But yes, I think a guy who looks 35 and is reasonably attractive can be successful on Tinder with the 18-25 year olds.

If you are comfortable talking with girls, then street game may be your best bet for that price range. But for me that takes time. My on the spot street game isn't very good but I have been chatting up two young women who work near my apartment every day for the week I have been here. They give me signs of interest despite me being about 30 years their senior. My game is that I dress well, I am consistent (reliable), and confident. I speak a little Russian and am learning a little Ukrainian but they most often talk to me in English anyway.

It is certainly possible for you to get a young woman without paying her directly at all. I had a few Russian girlfriends that were much younger than me that never asked for anything. They only wanted to be treated well. To answer your question more directly, it is not a thing of the past for a young girl to go for an older guy--it is just getting harder as their options expand.

[PhotoSlider]

Don't listen to PhotoSlider, despite being 58 years old, he is a handsome devil.As long as young Ukrainian ladies think the same, I have no objections.

I do not think I am that particularly attractive, but pallatable.

Good friend of mine just mentioned in conversation today, that Brad Pitt or any other married celebrity would probably kill to be in our shoes while we are so lucky to visit Kiev.

I believe there were a few incidents when Mike Tyson or Jean Claude Van Damm disappeared in Kiev for many days and were nowhere to be found after extensive search.


I, on the other hand, am aesthetically challenged and 52 years old. I have never had any luck with Tinder. If my first impression is my age and face, I will get nowhere. But yes, I think a guy who looks 35 and is reasonably attractive can be successful on Tinder with the 18-25 year olds.

If you are comfortable talking with girls, then street game may be your best bet for that price range. But for me that takes time. My on the spot street game isn't very good but I have been chatting up two young women who work near my apartment every day for the week I have been here. They give me signs of interest despite me being about 30 years their senior. My game is that I dress well, I am consistent (reliable), and confident.These three last factors are important. Especially consistent (reliable). Kozerog emphasized it.

Confident. Yes. And dress well, but not overdress. I've had a T-shirt at the "Swan Lake", clean, new, but no suite and tie, and it didn't affect admiration of my lady of the night. On the contrary. By being confident, without arrogance, demonstrates that you may have other options. And Ukrainian ladies have two binary modes:

1. Chase me, I am so beautiful.

2. he doesn't pay sufficient attention. He wants to flee! OMG! I'm going to fight fiercely against the perceived competition.


I speak a little Russian and am learning a little Ukrainian but they most often talk to me in English anyway.

It is certainly possible for you to get a young woman without paying her directly at all. I had a few Russian girlfriends that were much younger than me that never asked for anything. They only wanted to be treated well.Couldn't say it better myself about Ukrainian girls! Many of them are friendly, curious, and well mannered.


To answer your question more directly, it is not a thing of the past for a young girl to go for an older guy--it is just getting harder as their options expand.But there's enough fish at sea for all, especially now, when funds are tight, but rent must be paid, and there are other expenses.

[Desin]

Thank you for your advices!

My "street game" is non-existent, I have an issue to talk to total strangers (and chitchat, of all the horrible things! But then again, when I've arranged a date with someone, it's not a problem at all. So this is why the Tinder / Mamba are going to be essential.

My ideal would be to find such a nice persons that I'd like to visit them again and again in future years. So I'm thinking if I should approach this with two ways, simultaneously: Use Tinder to find someone without the reference to money, or with some hidden, but open reference. Something that says "I like to help my friends" or something like that. From time to time over a year, I could send a 50 or 100 euros, just to keep her on the leash. (I know, I know. It's me on the leash, not her.).

Then, I could use Mamba to try more direct approach. I haven't figured out the keywords yet that are familiar to Ukrainian women, but I'll probably come up with something.

Or, I could use two different Tinder-accounts at the same time in different phones. I got a 'steal this' phone for my trips and it'll be useful in this purpose aswell.

If I find a cute and sexually compatible girl, who doesn't bring up the money to the discussion but with whom I'd like to form this kind of financial relationship (maybe she'd expect it as well, but wouln't know how to say it), then what do you consider to good ways to "pamper" her, like YummyPL expressed it? Are they into clothes, electrical devices (headphones? Restaurants, beauty saloons or just hard cash? What would be a proper amount of money, so I wouldn't go over-the-top when I wouldn't have to? What should make. A student in Kiev. Her happy? One told me in another site that she has 100 euro for living per month.

[Member #4722]

Thank you for your advices!

My "street game" is non-existent, I have an issue to talk to total strangers (and chitchat, of all the horrible things! But then again, when I've arranged a date with someone, it's not a problem at all. So this is why the Tinder / Mamba are going to be essential.

My ideal would be to find such a nice persons that I'd like to visit them again and again in future years. So I'm thinking if I should approach this with two ways, simultaneously: Use Tinder to find someone without the reference to money, or with some hidden, but open reference. Something that says "I like to help my friends" or something like that. From time to time over a year, I could send a 50 or 100 euros, just to keep her on the leash. (I know, I know. It's me on the leash, not her.).

Then, I could use Mamba to try more direct approach. I haven't figured out the keywords yet that are familiar to Ukrainian women, but I'll probably come up with something.

Or, I could use two different Tinder-accounts at the same time in different phones. I got a 'steal this' phone for my trips and it'll be useful in this purpose aswell.

If I find a cute and sexually compatible girl, who doesn't bring up the money to the discussion but with whom I'd like to form this kind of financial relationship (maybe she'd expect it as well, but wouln't know how to say it), then what do you consider to good ways to "pamper" her, like YummyPL expressed it? Are they into clothes, electrical devices (headphones? Restaurants, beauty saloons or just hard cash? What would be a proper amount of money, so I wouldn't go over-the-top when I wouldn't have to? What should make. A student in Kiev. Her happy? One told me in another site that she has 100 euro for living per month.If you are already thinking about gifts and allowances then you are approaching it all wrong. These women will try to take advantage of you. As you have read on the forum, however, it is possible to find a mutually beneficial relationship in Kyiv.

[Desin]

If you are already thinking about gifts and allowances then you are approaching it all wrong. These women will try to take advantage of you. As you have read on the forum, however, it is possible to find a mutually beneficial relationship in Kyiv.Haha.

Yes. I shall meditate on this.

[YummyPL]

Just curious about other people's experience. I always have my own condoms. I strongly prefer a particular type. I brought 120 with me and have my bedside drawer full of them.

Is it normal for a girl to show up without condoms in Ukraine? Do website / apartment girls have their own condoms? How about mamba girls?

[PhotoSlider]

Just curious about other people's experience. I always have my own condoms. I strongly prefer a particular type. I brought 120 with me and have my bedside drawer full of them. Is it normal for a girl to show up without condoms in Ukraine?I do the same, buy bulk my favorite brand before the flight to Kiev, and keep in the bedside drawer. My regulars know the drill, and rely on mine. Some new girls may call from the cab on the way in to confirm:

- Do you have them, or should I stop by the pharmacy?

They frequently use euphemism "it" or "them".


Do website / apartment girls have their own condoms? How about mamba girls?Hourly agency girls have their own per policy, and surely appreciate when I use mine, as it is overhead expense, even when their employer covers it.

Back in 2008 I picked up a girl at River Palace and brought her to my place downtown. We had a good conversation, then started kissing, I pulled her towards the bed, and she asked:

- Are you sure?

- Yes I am.

Then I explained that at first I wasn't going to take anybody. Which was partially true. She smiled, and said:

- The same with me. I've been passing by and stopped by for a minute to take a look.

That's when she opened her purse and pulled out a pack of strawberry scented condoms called "Romance".

Professionals will always have their own. Students may not, as they barely have money for food, rent and the latest model of iPhone.

[YummyPL]

Professionals will always have their own. Students may not, as they barely have money for food, rent and the latest model of iPhone.I think that should be "Students may not, as they barely have money for the latest model of iPhone, food, and rent" because clearly the iPhone is a higher priority than rent.

[DonkeyPower]

Two years ago, in December, I visited Kyiv and Lviv for the first time. I had a pretty good time there, went to Rio and other strip clubs and had luck with a Mamba girl. If anyone is interested, I wrote a report.

Since then I visited St. Petersburg and Moscow a few times. I really liked it there, since it is so much easier to find girls. In Moscow, for example, there is a reliable website with review function and in St. Petersberg there are awesome salon chains, where you can check the current roster online. To my knowledge, nothing of the sort exists in Kyiv. Nonetheless, I decided to try my luck again in September. Firstly, because of the awesome reports of fellow members here and secondly because Russian borders are closed tightly.

So in the last few days I have been preparing by gaining contacts on Badoo and Mamba. On Badoo I matched with a lot of women. But I am really not sure how they would react to P2P offers. They all seem so normal. With some of them I write daily. On Mamba it is more obvious. There are profiles with certainly fake photos. I guess these are salon or agency profiles. Haven't contacted one yet. I don't think it makes sense to do it now, since I am not in town. However, I wrote to some girls, who seem to be semi-professional or regular girls. Didn't get any responses yet. Maybe I am missing a certain catchphrase. Anyhow, I am trying to prepare more in the next three weeks. Hopefully it will be a nice trip.

[NorskKing]

I see that some brave souls went ahead with their visit to Kiev. Also thanks for the amazing reports. Very useful.

I postponed my trip to October as I see a lot of chaotic news (reading news daily makes it look even worse than it is).

Postponing flight and apartment was just few clicks without any charges.

Before considering to postpone I just bought membership in Mamba and few phone numbers. Stay safe and have fun.

[Sorbonne]

Somehow I didn't think you would be) If you are ever interested in getting together for a beer, let me know.I sent you a PM but am not sure it went through. It doesn't show in my Sent Box.

I just asked in my message how long you will be in Kiev.

[DramaFree11]

Two years ago, in December, I visited Kyiv and Lviv for the first time. I had a pretty good time there, went to Rio and other strip clubs and had luck with a Mamba girl. If anyone is interested, I wrote a report.

Since then I visited St. Petersburg and Moscow a few times. I really liked it there, since it is so much easier to find girls. In Moscow, for example, there is a reliable website with review function and in St. Petersberg there are awesome salon chains, where you can check the current roster online. To my knowledge, nothing of the sort exists in Kyiv. Nonetheless, I decided to try my luck again in September. Firstly, because of the awesome reports of fellow members here and secondly because Russian borders are closed tightly.

So in the last few days I have been preparing by gaining contacts on Badoo and Mamba. On Badoo I matched with a lot of women. But I am really not sure how they would react to P2P offers. They all seem so normal. With some of them I write daily. On Mamba it is more obvious. There are profiles with certainly fake photos. I guess these are salon or agency profiles. Haven't contacted one yet. I don't think it makes sense to do it now, since I am not in town. However, I wrote to some girls, who seem to be semi-professional or regular girls. Didn't get any responses yet. Maybe I am missing a certain catchphrase. Anyhow, I am trying to prepare more in the next three weeks. Hopefully it will be a nice trip.Great report, I am looking forward to your reports and the comparison of the 2 countries. I loved Kiev 10 years ago, 4 years ago I start going to Russia again and it was just amazing. Zero comparison for me, have a great trip.

[PhotoSlider]

I think that should be "Students may not, as they barely have money for the latest model of iPhone, food, and rent" because clearly the iPhone is a higher priority than rent.IPhone is the only priority. Less sophisticated girls will explain in vivid colors how much they want you to buy one for her, and that life is impossible without it. Smart ones will silently demonstrated how much they suffer, and there's no money for food and rent, and then will use the money mongers gives them to buy that coveted object of ultimate desire. If funds are insufficient, they will buy it for credit. And then they will be forced to post advertisements on mamba, and tinder and fall into the arms of mongers. Self-imposed dire circumstances beneficial for hobbyists. Such is the essence of this particular sector of Ukrainian economy.

[PhotoSlider]

I see that some brave souls went ahead with their visit to Kiev. Also thanks for the amazing reports. Very useful.

I postponed my trip to October as I see a lot of chaotic news (reading news daily makes it look even worse than it is).

Postponing flight and apartment was just few clicks without any charges.

Before considering to postpone I just bought membership in Mamba and few phone numbers. Stay safe and have fun.Monday, August 17th quarantine rules are tightened in Kiev by the government due to worsening statistics. I expect it getting worse in October-November when the flu season arrives.

At the same time today, I am in communication with 3 persons currently in Kiev and having great time. Wish I could join. I will probably wait till May 2021 or so.

[Bill1963]

Two years ago, in December, I visited Kyiv and Lviv for the first time. I had a pretty good time there, went to Rio and other strip clubs and had luck with a Mamba girl. If anyone is interested, I wrote a report.

Since then I visited St. Petersburg and Moscow a few times. I really liked it there, since it is so much easier to find girls. In Moscow, for example, there is a reliable website with review function and in St. Petersberg there are awesome salon chains, where you can check the current roster online. To my knowledge, nothing of the sort exists in Kyiv. Nonetheless, I decided to try my luck again in September. Firstly, because of the awesome reports of fellow members here and secondly because Russian borders are closed tightly.

So in the last few days I have been preparing by gaining contacts on Badoo and Mamba. On Badoo I matched with a lot of women. But I am really not sure how they would react to P2P offers. They all seem so normal. With some of them I write daily. On Mamba it is more obvious. There are profiles with certainly fake photos. I guess these are salon or agency profiles. Haven't contacted one yet. I don't think it makes sense to do it now, since I am not in town. However, I wrote to some girls, who seem to be semi-professional or regular girls. Didn't get any responses yet. Maybe I am missing a certain catchphrase. Anyhow, I am trying to prepare more in the next three weeks. Hopefully it will be a nice trip.I am curious if Moscow and st Petersburg are so much better.

Why are you still visiting Kiev?

[Mike963]

Hello Donkey power,

How much did you pay for the pvt dance in Rio.

Cheers.

Mike.


I have been lurking in this forum for quite a while. The reports some of you guys posted motivated me to try it out and go to Ukraine at Christmas time for two weeks. It was my first mongering experience and I also suck with women. Some people would call me a typical German work-cyborg engineer. I am in my early thirties and good looking. Also, I am very muscular and tall. Like I said: a cyborg.

Before the trip I installed Tinder and Badoo and got a lot of matches. It was amazing for me, since here in Germany all I could get was like 10 matches in the first week and then nothing. Anyways this affirmed my intention. So I booked a flight to Kiev and planned to stay in L'viv for 4 days and then go to Kiev for the remaining days. Since I was born in Russia I know basic Russian, which I wanted to improve upon.

The next day I took the train to Kiev. I must say, the fast trains are really nice and very affordable. During the journey I searched for ways to somehow safe my trip. Some members here recommended mamba. So I tried it and started writing to some girls. Another recommendation was Rio. I was determined to go there. On the first two day however I just did sightseeing and ate at fancy restaurants. Almost every time I was completely alone. Here and there some shady mafia guys. But the waitresses were extremely hot and nice. Too bad I have the confidence of a teenage boy when it comes to women..

[Lucky Nuts]

In Moscow, for example, there is a reliable website with review function and in St. Petersberg there are awesome salon chains, where you can check the current roster online. What is the website? And please name a couple of the good salon chains in St. Pete. Thanks.

[PhotoSlider]

What is the website? And please name a couple of the good salon chains in St. Pete. Thanks.Sorry, Gentlemen. Does glorification of undoubtedly superior Russian salons really belong in any of the Ukrainian threads on this Forum? Please forgive my undeserved attempt at censorship, but we've been polluted here enough already.

[Desin]

Since then I visited St. Petersburg and Moscow a few times. I really liked it there, since it is so much easier to find girls. In Moscow, for example, there is a reliable website with review function and in St. Petersberg there are awesome salon chains, where you can check the current roster online. To my knowledge, nothing of the sort exists in Kyiv.St. Petersburg is an interest of mine as well, but that'll be in the next year. Hopefully some student girls, since they are my favourites.


So in the last few days I have been preparing by gaining contacts on Badoo and Mamba. On Badoo I matched with a lot of women. But I am really not sure how they would react to P2P offers. They all seem so normal. With some of them I write daily. On Mamba it is more obvious. There are profiles with certainly fake photos. I guess these are salon or agency profiles. Haven't contacted one yet. I don't think it makes sense to do it now, since I am not in town. However, I wrote to some girls, who seem to be semi-professional or regular girls. Didn't get any responses yet. Maybe I am missing a certain catchphrase. Anyhow, I am trying to prepare more in the next three weeks. Hopefully it will be a nice trip.I'd be interest to hear how these relationships start to develop! Especially about the details such as which one of you brought up the money, or was there some obvious hints, and stuff like that. And of course the prices the girls will offer themselves for.

Also, I'm curious about your profile in Badoo. I understand if you don't wish to give out details, but since you say you got a lot of matches, there's a few essential questions: how many photos did you upload and are they Good? Are you a well-dressed man, stylish, or just regular guy? And did you wrote about your interests and stuff in the profile text, like you would if you were looking for regular company. And if not, then what did you write on it? I suppose the correct choice would be "I'm looking for dates" in this regard in Badoo?

[YummyPL]

So I was talking to this girl on WhatsApp that had described her body as "athletic" on SA. I don't like that option but there are some seriously hot girls that choose that over saying they are "thin."

In any case, I asked for more pictures on WhatsApp and she sent some. I really wanted to respond to her saying "Athletic? Are you preparing to be a sumo wrestler?" I mean WTF is someone who is about 30-40 kilos overweight doing saying their body is "athletic"?

[PhotoSlider]

So I was talking to this girl on WhatsApp that had described her body as "athletic" on SA. I don't like that option but there are some seriously hot girls that choose that over saying they are "thin."

In any case, I asked for more pictures on WhatsApp and she sent some. I really wanted to respond to her saying "Athletic? Are you preparing to be a sumo wrestler?" I mean WTF is someone who is about 30-40 kilos overweight doing saying their body is "athletic"?In US the keywords are "curvy" or "fool-bodied".

40 kg over? Not pounds, kilos, right? That is serious athleticism, - must be pure muscle.

[Sorbonne]

I'm not sure if this topic has come up before, but does anybody have experience with a dating site called "Multilingual Social Network"? I just came across with it today, and it seems like most users are Russian or Ukrainians.

At first sight it may not look like a dating site, but it is actually to be a dating site.

In my attempt to communicate with a young and beautiful girl I matched with on Tinder I followed her instruction, which led me through Instagram to this site.

Perhaps the girl works for the site and is trying to lure people to the site. I'm getting suspicious because why would I match with such a young / beautiful girl?

[Sorbonne]

I'm not sure if this topic has come up before, but does anybody have experience with a dating site called "Multilingual Social Network"? I just came across with it today, and it seems like most users are Russian or Ukrainians.

At first sight it may not look like a dating site, but it is actually to be a dating site.

In my attempt to communicate with a young and beautiful girl I matched with on Tinder I followed her instruction, which led me through Instagram to this site.

Perhaps the girl works for the site and is trying to lure people to the site. I'm getting suspicious because why would I match with such a young / beautiful girl?Or more likely the site just uses fake photos of girls to lure men into the site, like so many others do. It's just that nowadays they also go into other social networks to lure men out. Virtual world is so fake.

If they are overweight, why don't they just say "fat"?

[Desin]

Okay, I'm starting to learn what you have tried to tell me about Ukrainian girls.

Progress is slow, thou.

I made a Mamba account and contacted a superbly hot girl. She had "high income" in her profile, which I thought to be a clear indication. Asked if she'd be interested to meet in late November. She said yes. I asked what kind of a 'gift' would she like to have for each time she'd visit me for an hour. (I'm starting to realize my view on women has been completely fucked up, since I'm so used to be so direct about the sex-for-money transaction!

She blocked me.

So. From now on, I won't bring up the money. Right? I'll wait for the girl to do it. And like I was told, I should be acting like a regular guy. And let them to try to get to my money, right? Although I don't see any point to appear so naive as I wouldn't know what's it all about. Hmm. Tricky. I have to admit, this is part of the fun. Learning the ropes.

[Fred54]

Or more likely the site just uses fake photos of girls to lure men into the site, like so many others do. It's just that nowadays they also go into other social networks to lure men out. Virtual world is so fake.

If they are overweight, why don't they just say "fat"?No more politically correct.

[Member #4722]

Okay, I'm starting to learn what you have tried to tell me about Ukrainian girls.

Progress is slow, thou.

I made a Mamba account and contacted a superbly hot girl. She had "high income" in her profile, which I thought to be a clear indication. Asked if she'd be interested to meet in late November. She said yes. I asked what kind of a 'gift' would she like to have for each time she'd visit me for an hour. (I'm starting to realize my view on women has been completely fucked up, since I'm so used to be so direct about the sex-for-money transaction!

She blocked me.

So. From now on, I won't bring up the money. Right? I'll wait for the girl to do it. And like I was told, I should be acting like a regular guy. And let them to try to get to my money, right? Although I don't see any point to appear so naive as I wouldn't know what's it all about. Hmm. Tricky. I have to admit, this is part of the fun. Learning the ropes.Look in "reports of distinction" there is a guide for mamba posted by liljoey if I remember correctly. A bit outdated since it's a few years old. But gives some timeless advice on how to approach on mamba. One of the first rules is never mention money first.

[YummyPL]

I made a Mamba account and contacted a superbly hot girl. She had "high income" in her profile, which I thought to be a clear indication. Asked if she'd be interested to meet in late November. She said yes. I asked what kind of a 'gift' would she like to have for each time she'd visit me for an hour. (I'm starting to realize my view on women has been completely fucked up, since I'm so used to be so direct about the sex-for-money transaction!
Just my limited experience recently and in years past. Most Mamba girls like to sign up for 2-3 hours instead of an hour. Or maybe that is just me. I guess it is a way to increase income while reducing risk. Unless she is working for an agency, a solo girl has no "protection" from bad people so every meeting is more of a risk. A web / apartment girl has an infrastructure that protects her to a certain extent. She churns through hourly meetings. She pays at least 50% of her normal fee for that infrastructure, but it is better than being chopped up into little pieces or any of the other ways a guy can hurt a working girl.

Don't mention compensation unless she brings it up. She has already said she would meet you. The next step is usually moving to some kind of messenger app. If she is a working girl, she will absolutely bring up payment. More often than not it will be after you move to a messenger for whatever reason. She might put it on you and ask you what you are comfortable with. If it is close but too low she will make a counter-offer. If it is way to low then she will block you. When discussing compensation, ask if her pictures are real. Most aren't but insist on getting pictures. Make it clear that if either the girl in the pictures or someone you think is more attractive is not who shows up that you will send them home with nothing. Also, you are not going to get a $50 girl on Mamba unless she thinks you are hot which is doubtful. I can imagine offering 3,000 for 2-3 hours but not much less than that, again, unless you are hot. That is a little less than $120 USD. Again, you must remember she needs to be compensated for risk of time and safety.

Lastly, there is almost no point in chatting now for meetings in late November. It is a waste of time. I wouldn't start any further away than three weeks out. November is a lifetime away to these girls and the likelihood the profile of a working girl still being there three months from now is almost non-existent. There are sites it can work but Mamba really isn't one of them.

Just my thoughts and others may disagree.

[Desin]

Just my limited experience recently and in years past.Yup, seems like it that it's way too early for Mamba-girls.

Hmm, that price is good to know. 2 to 3 hours is too long for me, I only to this with one of my regulars with whom we go to eat and have a discussions with in between the fucking. An ideal would be a one hour at day time and half an hour in the evening. So I have to find like 2 to 3 girls minimum to have some alteration and probably offer something like 1500-2000 UAH per visit. And try to make them think it's fine since they could meet me several times, and after the first meeting it's safe and sound to come again.

What is the most direct, but still non-moderated way, to let people know in your profile text that you are searching for such company in Mamba and Tinder?

[Ringudor]

I agree with yummypl, better lets the girl talk when she feels comfortable, I just used mamba once for pick up a girl, it was in 2015, she was 24, Irina, university student, my plan was go out with her and then go apartment, but she felt uncomfortable talking with me in a puc, then I decided go home earlier than planned, she did one of best BBBJ I remember and once finished she felt slept in my shoulder, a real GFE.

A year later I met her again, and again she came home, but behaviour much worse, she was in a hurry to make fast money, not GFE now, also she was 10 kg more fat, disappointing, didn't call her for third time.

[PhotoSlider]

Look in "reports of distinction" there is a guide for mamba posted by liljoey if I remember correctly. A bit outdated since it's a few years old. But gives some timeless advice on how to approach on mamba. One of the first rules is never mention money first.What was the name of that gentleman from Toronto, visiting Kiev frequently in the past? He is the one, who sampled GIA extensively and reported in the most structured manner.

He also had a solid post on his successful mamba methodology around 2018. Please find that.

[PhotoSlider]

Just my limited experience recently and in years past. Most Mamba girls like to sign up for 2-3 hours instead of an hour. Or maybe that is just me. I guess it is a way to increase income while reducing risk. Unless she is working for an agency, a solo girl has no "protection" from bad people so every meeting is more of a risk. A web / apartment girl has an infrastructure that protects her to a certain extent. She churns through hourly meetings. She pays at least 50% of her normal fee for that infrastructure, but it is better than being chopped up into little pieces or any of the other ways a guy can hurt a working girl.

Don't mention compensation unless she brings it up. She has already said she would meet you. The next step is usually moving to some kind of messenger app. If she is a working girl, she will absolutely bring up paymentCorrect. Get her phone number or Instagram for reliable connection, and move away from Mamba.

I never initiate the payment discussion myself. The girl will brings it up. Or it'll be a freebie.

After getting the direct messenger contact outside of mamba, the next immediate step is to set up a meet in person. And with Kiev girls even one day away is too much. They live in the present. Therefore hunting better be done no sooner than 3 weeks in advance. The moment the girl realizes you are not in Kiev, she most likely will lose her interest. Sending her your money in advance is stupid. She'll keep squeeze milking you until dry.

The only more reliable approach is chatting with the girl you already met IRL through Tinder or Mamba or straight agency hourly service.

So: Do not bring up the money subject in convo, definitely not in the form "How much should I pay you per hour". Kiev girls prefer not to think of themselves as prostitutes. She'll bring the subject herself, either in chat, or when you meet her. With me frequently it happens even after the actual intercourse. Or I simply give the money. Not a single one refused.

Again, you have 2 major business objectives: get her number, then setup the meet. Then speed screening, casting at the nearby cafe. Then fuck them all. I mean those that you mutually agree with.

[PhotoSlider]

What was the name of that gentleman from Toronto, visiting Kiev frequently in the past? He is the one, who sampled GIA extensively and reported in the most structured manner.

He also had a solid post on his successful mamba methodology around 2018. Please find that.Found him. Jymondor. Read through his posts. He is awesome!

[YummyPL]

What is the most direct, but still non-moderated way, to let people know in your profile text that you are searching for such company in Mamba and Tinder?You can put almost anything in the tags on Mamba. One problem with that is that if you put stuff in your profile for working girls, it is much less likely that you will get any response from purely non-working girls. I don't have any information in my profile except my height and weight, and a few pictures that show my general body appearance without showing my face in detail. She can see I am not fat and that I am white (which may be good or bad depending on the girl-it seems to me that most of the younger girls are not particularly racist). I don't get a high percentage of responses, but I get more than I need.

I assume you understand any young girl that puts a "looking for a man" with a range much older than her age is a working girl. That doesn't mean she will see you. It just means she is open to that kind of meeting. And I will also say, after the initial investment of 2-3 hours, shorter meetings are more reasonable. I like longer meetings but I am also a challenge sexually. I may or may not have skills, but even at my advance years, I have stamina. Plus, I like a lot of foreplay. I would feel rushed with just one hour. Sometimes I wish I were not that way--it would be a lot cheaper if I was happy with an hour. We are all different people with different needs.

I treat almost every girl I meet as a "normal girl. " Some I just compensate directly instead of indirectly. Also, it is my belief that any girl you get to your apartment is willing to fuck you. It is up to you and her how that happens. Finally, a "normal" girl might ask for direct compensation buy asking for you to "help" her with a particular financial problem she is having.

[Philosophus]

I appreciate comparative reporting, even if an insight on St Petersburg, Russia, ends up in the Kiev forum. Many of us read across various fora.

Reg. Mamba, it is only a matter of effort and attention to learn what works for you. You need not write anything in particular to specify your purpose, just check flirt and meeting and joint travel and sex etc. As your interests. You need a photo to get responses. Enter age 38, not much above, because many girls will enter 20 to 40 for desired age range of the partner. There are all shades of girls, and all need money in these dire times. She will bring up the topic. You don't have to. When she proposes to switch to viber or telegram or whatsapp, your mamba convesation has taken the right direction. I speak and write Russian fluently, which makes things easier. So many young confused girls with low self esteem out there looking for a little adventerous path out of their financial duress by marketing their youth, their petite slim bodies, their nicely braided hair, their femininity, their immaculate smiles and eyes to a sponsor in need of company and carnal relief.

[Desin]

Just my limited experience recently and in years past. Most Mamba girls like to sign up for 2-3 hours instead of an hour. Or maybe that is just me. I guess it is a way to increase income while reducing risk. Unless she is working for an agency, a solo girl has no "protection" from bad people so every meeting is more of a risk. A web / apartment girl has an infrastructure that protects her to a certain extent. She churns through hourly meetings. She pays at least 50% of her normal fee for that infrastructure, but it is better than being chopped up into little pieces or any of the other ways a guy can hurt a working girl.
I finally understood the meaning of this.

The amount of time that I use to find a non-agency girl from dating apps is huge. I enjoy it, but still, it chunks up a shitload of time. And so it does for the girls. I recalled this one local student, who made a good money on the side with this kind of activity, and her complaint was that it's so exhausting to screen through all the mails the she gets. She said to me that she'd want somebody to do it for her and just inform her when and where to go, and she'd do the gig (she even said she'd give 10% of her income for this help). So, until now I've thought about these 'agency girls' to be some kind of addicts and uneducated girls, maybe even in the hands of the mafia or something. But maybe it's not that. Maybe it's just that they want to have the cash, and don't want to spend their time with that talking and negotiating and all the fake customers who are not really interested to pay for a meeting. So, they give that half away for someone else to deal with all the bullshit.

I'll continue with my Tinder / Mamba / Badoo experiment, with your advises in mind (I also found some of the old Mamba-advises from the other thread), but since this revelation I ask this:

If you know a good agency, one that will provide you solidly with pretty girls aged 18-24, students or the like, 'regular' girls and not those silicone / glamour girls, please let me know. I understood that even the agent might not provide you with real photos, but if they will send a girl with similar look (cuteness / beauty) and body-type, I guess that's enough.

[YummyPL]

If you know a good agency, one that will provide you solidly with pretty girls aged 18-24, students or the like, 'regular' girls and not those silicone / glamour girls, please let me know. I understood that even the agent might not provide you with real photos, but if they will send a girl with similar look (cuteness / beauty) and body-type, I guess that's enough.I'm still working through the non-agency contacts I had when I got here (with widely mixed success). Anything agency info I have would be from long ago. Probably next week I will try some "agency" girls from some of the local websites (kievlady, mister-x, etc.). I will report back.

[PhotoSlider]

She said to me that she'd want somebody to do it for her and just inform her when and where to go, and she'd do the gig (she even said she'd give 10% of her income for this help).And this is precisely what these agencies do. Except it is not 10%. Rather anywhere from 60% and up. 75% is not unheard of. Add to this all the penalties and extra expenses.

I haven't heard of girls cut up in pieces, but other unpleasant things happen in Kiev. Customer arrives, consumes the services, and leaves without paying. More aggressive customers pretend they are police (or are police), and clean up all the earnings that the girl managed to get and keep at her residence.

[Kozerog]

Another issue for independents is real police. Back before anti-corruption drive, police would target independents and demand payoffs. Now, job of lower ranking police might be to run independents out of business so they don't compete with agencies, who continue to pay off higher ranking police.

Perhaps the biggest menace to prostitutes (at least in the Anglo-Saxon world) has always been "time wasters". These are guys who have no intention of actually going through with sex. Either they jerk off while discussing planned sex acts on the phone with the girl, or they jerk off after the girl arrives and they see her in the street, or teenagers might send the girl on an outcall to the home of a married school teacher or priest or whatever. Or they make appointments then cancel at the last minute. Not uncommon for a 10:1 or higher ratio between timewasters versus legitimate clients.

Police don't have time to chase semi-pros and true criminals are rare and eventually get caught and sent to jail (or beaten up by a girl with a big boyfriend), but no laws against timewasters. Just consider the hordes of guys with no money and no girlfriend who write fan notes on Instagram profiles of pretty girls. Every one of those guys a potential timewaster of working girls time.

[LivingFossil]

I've been reading the Kiev forums for a while, I've had a few trips to Germany and Poland and while I was there mongered. I had always thought that Ukraine and Russia would have cheaper and hotter girls, which could be true but from reading the forums here it seems that it is not easy for foreigners.

Is a fair opinion to say that Germany is the best place for European woman? In terms of looks, price, and accessibility to foreigners?

[YummyPL]

but no laws against timewasters.Very true. But the girls are just as guilty of wasting time. Too bad there is no way to effectively match up non-time wasting men with non-time wasting women.

[YummyPL]

I had my first "freebie" yesterday. I met her struggling to take one of those rolling baskets of groceries and two big 5 liter bottles of water down the stairs into the tunnel near Olimpiiska metro station. I offered to help and carried the two big bottles of water for her into the tunnel and out the other side. We talked a bit and I invited her to dinner. She hesitated but agreed. I carried the water for her back to her apartment building, stayed down in the "foyer" as she put the stuff in the elevator and took it upstairs. 5 minutes later she came down and we walked to Kuvshyn, a nice Georgian / Caucasian restaurant not far away. We sat on the terrace and I got the Saturday plov special and tea and she ordered a salad and juice. She shared some of my meal (it is big) which I always like. After eating we hung out in the park there and talked. After a while we made it to a small pub and had a couple of beers. After a couple of hours, we went for a walk and were nearing her apartment. I gave her a short kiss and asked if we should goodbye for the evening. She said OK and I went for another kiss that she responded to rather deeply. We made out a little on the street. I asked her back to my place and she offered to go up to her place instead.

Long story short, we had some pretty good sex. I didn't have any condoms with me and they were never mentioned. She seemed to have a good time and I also enjoyed it. She is not really my type. I would guess around 30 years old. She has a pretty enough face but is a bit stocky (but firm). I'd rate her in the 5-6 range because bodies are more important to me than face. Total damage for the time with her was about 1500 hrivnia (less than $60 USD) spent on both of us so less than half of that on her. No mention of any other money. She was fun and I might see her again as a "freebie. ".

So far in Kyiv for 16 days. I saw SA#1 once, I saw SA#2 twice, I have seen the Mamba 18 yo seven times all on work days, and I was with this girl yesterday. I have dropped three SA girls for being too flaky without ever meeting them, and I have met another SA girl for lunch and we are meeting tomorrow during the day for our first "intimate" meeting. No work tomorrow because of the holiday. Life is not too bad.

[YummyPL]

Is a fair opinion to say that Germany is the best place for European woman? In terms of looks, price, and accessibility to foreigners?Germany is absolutely the best for accessibility to foreigners. Super easy, legal, and a huge variety of European women. Something for all tastes as far as appearance. It is generally more expensive and the girls you meet will be "pros. " I used to spend a lot of time in FKKs and I loved getting girls that were brand new and had never did P4 P before, but those girls are a rare find. While some of the "pros" perform well, they do seem like pros. Nice for a good sex marathon and variety. But because I like longer sessions with a girl, the prices can be steep. 3-4 hours will cost you 300-400 euros at a minimum plus an entrance fee.

Comparatively, Ukraine can be inexpensive (it is amazing what the devaluation of the hryvnia has done) although it can also be expensive if you are not well prepared. Despite comments from some board members, there are plenty of very hot women in Kyiv available for P4P. I'm newly back after a long period away and am very happy with the results I have gotten so far and I have just started to scratch the surface in two weeks. I think the P4P girls compare very favorably with those in Germany depending on your taste and for me the best part is that it is much easier to find non-pros that are fresh and seem to actually enjoy the time spent together. Also, if you are well prepared, you can find better looking women than are found in most FKKs. Maybe it is just my taste, but I strongly believe that.

Bottom line for me is that Germany is easy, Kyiv is more fun.

[Sorbonne]

https://reachinitiative.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=b8ea3d22c51246528abb47ef94f20edb

What I don't understand is why Kiev is Yellow and not even Orange when it's the most infected city in the country.

Do they use something like numbers of infection in the last 14 days per 100,000? Does it mean it is still relatively uninfected, thus Yellow?

Or do they designate Kiev with Yellow to encourage the economic activity? Or even businesses bribe the government to receive Yellow?

I'm certainly not an expert on this.

[PhotoSlider]

Bottom line for me is that Germany is easy, Kyiv is more fun.Great honest analysis by an unbiased person with no agenda, who enjoyed FKKs in Germany and doesn't imagine how the Kiev is today, but is actually on the ground in Kiev, making his opinion relevant.

If your mindset is Western: login to the website, search by certain parameters, preview, assess, engage, consume, pay for business transaction, rinse and repeat, - then go to Germany. Ukraine has nothing close to German well-oiled business machine efficiency and professionalism.

I am almost 60. While in Kiev, I can have 19-22 years old staying with me for free for days and weeks, providing GFE, while we enjoy the City together. I can have multiple ladies competing for my time, attention and resources. Yes, ultimately I pay, either directly on a per visit basis, or for concurrent expenses.

For the last two months I am trying to remotely quit on 21 years old girl, who stayed with me on my last 4 visits to Kiev. Pure GFE, great sex and lots of genuine joy. She fierce-fully refuses my attempts to politely say "Goodbye", despite our last contact being almost a year ago. She was one of my 4 regulars, and there were many short term beauties.

Is it possible in Germany? I strongly doubt. Different society structure.

Can anybody reach that level in Kiev? It is lots of work. Took me multiple years. YummyPL is in Paradise on the Earth right now, because he is in Kiev long term, and his expectations are set properly. And fuck those naysayers claiming Ukrainian girls are either ugly or expensive. YummyPL shares with me extensively, and I am drooling.

[PhotoSlider]

https://reachinitiative.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=b8ea3d22c51246528abb47ef94f20edb

What I don't understand is why Kiev is Yellow and not even Orange when it's the most infected city in the country.

Do they use something like numbers of infection in the last 14 days per 100,000? Does it mean it is still relatively uninfected, thus Yellow?

Or do they designate Kiev with Yellow to encourage the economic activity? Or even businesses bribe the government to receive Yellow?

I'm certainly not an expert on this.Sorry, I cannot find the reference. The criteria Ukrainian Government uses is based on 3 factors observed over a sliding one-week window:

1. Number of infected per 100,000.

2. Percentage of used hospital beds.

3. Number of tests per 100,000.

I do not know how trustworthy Ukrainian data is. Too many things may skew its quality: unreliable tests, availability of tests, willingness of people to get tested, etc.

One of my regulars recovered from COVID in March-April, and didn't go for testing. She didn't want to get locked up.

And certainly statistical data can be tweaked and manipulated.

[Lucky Nuts]

Thinking of arriving Kiev next month from USA. Sounds like only requirement is a negative PCR test correct? Thoughts on getting it from a lab in the US vs. Upon arrival in Kiev? Anything else I should be concerned with or aware of? TIA.

[Egy Monger New]

Is BBFS in Kyiv as easily available as, say, Morocco Indonesia and Colombia?

[Ringudor]

Thinking of arriving Kiev next month from USA. Sounds like only requirement is a negative PCR test correct? Thoughts on getting it from a lab in the US vs. Upon arrival in Kiev? Anything else I should be concerned with or aware of? TIA.The last info I have is that you can make a covid test in boryspol airport once you arrive, I don't know if they accept test done in other countries.

[YummyPL]

Is BBFS in Kyiv as easily available as, say, Morocco Indonesia and Colombia?No, not at all. A lot of working girls won't even do BBBJ. However, I have never even once used a condom with a "freebie" in Ukraine or Russia. It isn't something I am proud of.

[DramaFree11]

No, not at all. A lot of working girls won't even do BBBJ. However, I have never even once used a condom with a "freebie" in Ukraine or Russia. It isn't something I am proud of.So you are traveling 1/2 way across the world and you do not even get blow jobs in Ukraine now. Wow!

[Wolvenvacht]

GShe fierce-fully refuses my attempts to politely say "Goodbye", despite our last contact being almost a year ago. She was one of my 4 regulars, and there were many short term beautiesThat is the beauty of the arrangements with the professionals: you don't pay them to come to you, you don't pay them for the services they provide, you pay them to leave you without drama.

[Desin]

I am almost 60. While in Kiev, I can have 19-22 years old staying with me for free for days and weeks, providing GFE, while we enjoy the City together. I can have multiple ladies competing for my time, attention and resources. Yes, ultimately I pay, either directly on a per visit basis, or for concurrent expenses.Now, sir, if you may, thou shalt give us the approximate amount of money you spend per girl for this kind of company?

I could go for 400-500 euros for one girl on that. But then I couldn't afford another one on the side.

[PhotoSlider]

Now, sir, if you may, thou shalt give us the approximate amount of money you spend per girl for this kind of company?

I could go for 400-500 euros for one girl on that. But then I couldn't afford another one on the side.Don't we have to do all the legwork for the newly arriving members of the Forum!

Dude, this has been referenced to you once already. It is a long read, but expenses analysis is in there, sliced and diced any way you want. Friend of mine after reading it suspected that I am an CPA. I am not.

http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev&p=2385065#post2385065

[PhotoSlider]

That is the beauty of the arrangements with the professionals: you don't pay them to come to you, you don't pay them for the services they provide, you pay them to leave you without drama.My approach is slightly different. I pay for the pleasure of the above hourly ladies company, and for the opportunity to convert the best of them to long-term regulars.

I definitely respect your philosophy, and to a certain degree leverage it myself as needed with both hourly and regular girls. Discipline is paramount.

Professionals are convenient and are less likely to fuck monger's brains. But I do enjoy waking up next to a young beauty with a fresh smell and silky skin, making love to her without any phone calls to dispatchers, going downstairs for casting in the taxi, etc. And if she misbehaves, change of guard is easy in Kiev.

This particular girl in question is compliant, and convenient in many ways. She doesn't abuse me. I am trying to leave her for certain private reasons. Time will tell if we ever meet again.

[PhotoSlider]

...girls won't even do BBBJ...Let me take your words out of context here:

Are you saying that your girls don't suck?

[YummyPL]

So you are traveling 1/2 way across the world and you do not even get blow jobs in Ukraine now. Wow!You have so much hate in you. Troll, troll, troll. Both parts of your statement are misleading: the first part is that I am traveling here for sex which is not true, and the second part that I am not getting blow jobs and that is not true. I simply stated that a lot of working girls here won't do a blowjob without a condom which is neither unique to Kyiv nor a necessarily widespread phenomenon. i won't meet a girl that does not BBBJ or kiss. No point for me. As far as I remember the Moscow strip club girls wouldn't do a BBBJ and there were almost none of them I would pay their prices to fuck.

[PhotoSlider]

...so much hate...Ukrainian ladies have ultrasensitive internal device detecting what monger thinks about life.

Hate. And the girls either ignore that monger or turn into mythological harpies and eat him alive.

Respect. And the Gates of Paradise open up for The Chosen Ones.

Do not feed the troll.

[IdiotSavant]

Great honest analysis by an unbiased person with no agenda, who enjoyed FKKs in Germany and doesn't imagine how the Kiev is today, but is actually on the ground in Kiev, making his opinion relevant.

If your mindset is Western: login to the website, search by certain parameters, preview, assess, engage, consume, pay for business transaction, rinse and repeat, - then go to Germany. Ukraine has nothing close to German well-oiled business machine efficiency and professionalism.

I am almost 60. While in Kiev, I can have 19-22 years old staying with me for free for days and weeks, providing GFE, while we enjoy the City together. I can have multiple ladies competing for my time, attention and resources. Yes, ultimately I pay, either directly on a per visit basis, or for concurrent expenses.

For the last two months I am trying to remotely quit on 21 years old girl, who stayed with me on my last 4 visits to Kiev. Pure GFE, great sex and lots of genuine joy. She fierce-fully refuses my attempts to politely say "Goodbye", despite our last contact being almost a year ago. She was one of my 4 regulars, and there were many short term beauties..I am a 33 year old artist. I am able to work remotely and my game plan was to go over there with around $50000 saved up while working remotely six months out of the year. Two super appeals were the stories of the girls and the currency exchange rate. I make enough passively to cover rent so my savings on a major commission wouldn't dwindle as much.

I would greatly appreciate your input. I dress nicely. Was going to buy some Raybans a Canada Goose and Arc Teryx jacket and work from coffee shops and night clubs.

It sounds like nightclubs even places like Skybar are a bad idea and cost ineffective to pickup younger girls that age.

Ideally that would be my goal is to just find a 18-24 year old and keep her around.

This thread makes it sound like there are better options for this besides Ukraine although my heart was set on it.

Your post however seems optimistic.

If anyone has any advice on the relocation with the purpose of picking up college aged girls for P4P or just dating and a relationship it would be humbly appreciated.

I am planning on relocating to Kyiv or Lviv early October. This thread kind of scared me off a little no lie.

[Desin]

What's the deal with places like these, which offer massage and striptease? I came upon them on VK.

https://dolcevita.kiev.ua/

https://wildwest.kiev.ua/

They seem to be generated by the same web-designer.

[MagicSheep74]

I am a 33 year old artist. I am able to work remotely and my game plan was to go over there with around $50000 saved up while working remotely six months out of the year. Two super appeals were the stories of the girls and the currency exchange rate. I make enough passively to cover rent so my savings on a major commission wouldn't dwindle as much.

I would greatly appreciate your input. I dress nicely. Was going to buy some Raybans a Canada Goose and Arc Teryx jacket and work from coffee shops and night clubs.

It sounds like nightclubs even places like Skybar are a bad idea and cost ineffective to pickup younger girls that age.

Ideally that would be my goal is to just find a 18-24 year old and keep her around.

This thread makes it sound like there are better options for this besides Ukraine although my heart was set on it.In my opinion I would never relocate to Ukraine for the women. It's a very much a broken culture with a scam mentally. When the people perceive kindness as a weakness, then it should be avoided.

Are there hot Ukrainian women. Absolutely.

Are there nice Ukrainian women. Absolutely.

Will you be picking up really hot model type college chicks. Absolutely not.

From my experience, the only really attractive Ukrainian I have had were in Dubai. The minute they know there worth, they either glued to Instagram to find sugar daddies or get the hell out this depressing country. Sorry to say, but the so called Troll. Dramafree is absolutely spot on with his observations and comments.

You can travel for a few days with very attractive Ukrainian women by using. Elit_travel_girls on insta, but I would not waste a dollar in the country itself, unless you speak Ukrainian or Russian and have business interests there.

You would be much better in off in the South Coast of Spain with a great climate and an endless supply of Eastern European and Latin women.

Chasing hot women has been my life's work and I can live anywhere I want. Europe truly has much better destination to live and enjoy carefree sex.

Be safe.

[YummyPL]

This thread makes it sound like there are better options for this besides Ukraine although my heart was set on it.Ukraine is a fine option. Have you checked the visa requirements? You can't stay here 6 months in a row on a tourist visa and technically are not supposed to be working here on a tourist visa either--although I doubt an artist working remotely would have any problems with that part.

Kyiv is a fine place to stay. If you speak Russian I would almost suggest you going to Kharkiv. Much cheaper all around and plenty of university girls that need money. But Kyiv is a great city.

In your early 30's you have the world at your fingertips. As long as you don't have problems talking to women, then over time you won't have any problem finding an 18-23 year old that will be happy to share her time with you.

I can't comment on the nightlife here. I have not been to a nightclub in Kyiv since 2013. But coffee shops and cafes are ripe with opportunities. I am grateful to be here during this strange time in our world.

That said, if I had a choice, I would choose Russia over Ukraine. Every time I went to Russia it was truly surreal. It was often like living in an alternate universe especially for "regular girls. " And dramafree is right about the nightlife there being excellent. But I don't think there is any place besides Russia that I would choose over Kyiv and Russia is more difficult / prohibitive to live in. I love Kyiv and although I also love Budapest, Barcelona, and some other cities, if my goal is finding a girl or ten to share my time with and not spend a lot of money, Kyiv is phenomenal.

[Sorbonne]

What's the deal with places like these, which offer massage and striptease? I came upon them on VK.

https://dolcevita.kiev.ua/

https://wildwest.kiev.ua/

They seem to be generated by the same web-designer.I'd say the designer himself is the pimp using fake photos.

[Ringudor]

What's the deal with places like these, which offer massage and striptease? I came upon them on VK.

https://dolcevita.kiev.ua/

https://wildwest.kiev.ua/

They seem to be generated by the same web-designer.I didn't know those places, first one seems massage club, second one is a kind of sauna, but is not clear what services they provide there.

[YummyPL]

You would be much better in off in the South Coast of Spain with a great climate and an endless supply of Eastern European and Latin women.

Chasing hot women has been my life's work and I can live anywhere I want. Europe truly has much better destination to live and enjoy carefree sex.

Be safe.MagicSheep74 I actually respect your opinion much more than I respect dramafree's opinion. Maybe someone as young as IdiotSavant would be better off in Spain. But the Ukrainian girls seem much more comfortable with an old fuck like me than the mediteranian girls ever did. Besides, escorts are much more expensive in Spain in my limited experiience.

[Punter6996]

Ukraine is a fine option. Have you checked the visa requirements? You can't stay here 6 months in a row on a tourist visa and technically are not supposed to be working here on a tourist visa either--although I doubt an artist working remotely would have any problems with that part. YummPL. Just out of curiosity what type of visa are you on, while staying in Ukraine. I ask this because after reading your posts, I understand that you will be there for a long time. However my understanding is that tourists are only issued a visa for 1 month?

[Ringudor]

Most common permission for stay in Ukraine is 90 days for each 180 day period, visa free.

I'm preparing my trip to Kiev for next week, I come from red zone country (spain).

As I rode, I can pass covid test in borispol airport, just making 1 hour file and test, then result is after 40 hour and I'm free from quarantine, can anyone confirm me this? That situation is really complicate.

[Sorbonne]

I didn't know those places, first one seems massage club, second one is a kind of sauna, but is not clear what services they provide there.I didn't even look at the websites too carefully, but when you said "sauna," it suddenly occurred to me that I have been to this Wild West.

Back in 2017 when I was getting a tour of apartments by a girl who was one of those pimps congregating in front of the Ferrari shop at the Arena City, she took me to this Wild West. It's right in the middle of downtown and is entered from a large inner court yard. I didn't stay there, but sometimes later I went back there for myself.

The place has some sauna rooms with one large cold-water swimming pool in the middle. What you do is to reserve a sauna with / without the swimming pool AND with / without erotic massage girls who work there. You can bring your own girl / s or hire the massage girl / s. I think it's all explained on the website.

I didn't really care for sauna at that time, and I didn't see any decent massage girls. So I was told to come back for more "beautiful" girls coming later that night, went back, never saw any decent girls, so I ended up not using their service at all.

Seeing from the website, few of the girls in the photos are young and hot, so I'm not sure if the photos are real (unlikely).

During this pandemic I don't know if massage salons or apartments are offering more selections, but seeing from the photos, it doesn't look that way.

Back in 2005-2010 I was enjoying the salon scene in Kiev where young / hot girls were aplenty for 40 USD for 1 hour. My fave was threesome. If this pandemic bring back those years to Kiev, well, then I would thank corona!

[Sorbonne]

I didn't know those places, first one seems massage club, second one is a kind of sauna, but is not clear what services they provide there.I noticed that on the Wild West website it says "full service. " I'm not sure what that mean. Maybe it does offer full service.

I've been to such sauna / banya with full service in Riga in Latvia. I believe this kind of banya exist in all FSS.

Now the other website La Dolce Vita.

The girls in the photos are decidedly prettier, and it says you can even book a specified girl. Then, are they real photos? Not impossible, but the price sounds outrageous for massage, no matter how pretty they are!

[Uke Boy]

Very disturbing and shocking news regarding unforgivable behavior from a monger here in Kiev.

Here is the link to the news article:https://korrespondent.net/city/kiev/4267074-v-stolytse-ynostranets-zadushyl-prostytutku.

A quick translation.

"Last night at 1/22 Filatov Street, an American named Mike rented an apartment. During the evening, a pimp brought a lady to him. When she did not come out several hours later, a pimp came to bring her back, but no one opened the door. Then the pimp broke the locks in one of the parked cars in the yard, pulled out a set of tools and started gouging the door. He was unable to open it (and on the contrary, he somehow blocked the apartment even more).

In the morning, a neighbor came to the door and called the police. Then from behind the door Michael's voice was heard, and he began to ask for help. He said that he felt bad, that he was suffocating and he needed to go to the hospital. The owners arrived with the documents for the apartment and the emergency workers opened the door. An ambulance took Mike away. An hour later, the owners found the corpse of a woman behind the sofa. It turned out that he strangled her. Mike escaped from the hospital but in the evening he was detained at the airport. The murdered woman turned out to be a mother of 5 children. ".

This is a photo of the alleged murderer https://www.facebook.com/KyivOperativ/photos/p.1065253680537384/1065253680537384/?type=3&theater.

[Member #4722]

Very disturbing news regarding unforgivable behavior from a monger here in Kiev.

Here is the link to the news article:https://korrespondent.net/city/kiev/4267074-v-stolytse-ynostranets-zadushyl-prostytutku.

A quick translation.

"Last night at 1/22 Filatov Street, an American named Mike rented an apartment. During the evening, a pimp brought a lady to him. When she did not come out several hours later, a pimp came to bring her back, but no one opened the door. Then the pimp broke the locks in one of the parked cars in the yard, pulled out a set of tools and started gouging the door. He was unable to open it (and on the contrary, he somehow blocked the apartment even more).

In the morning, a neighbor came to the door and called the police. Then from behind the door Michael's voice was heard, and he began to ask for help. He said that he felt bad, that he was suffocating and he needed to go to the hospital. The owners arrived with the documents for the apartment and the emergency workers opened the door. An ambulance took Mike away. An hour later, the owners found the corpse of a woman behind the sofa. It turned out that he strangled her. Mike escaped from the hospital but in the evening he was detained at the airport. The murdered woman turned out to be a mother of 5 children..WTF? That's so messed up.

[Vitrea]

Uke Boy. That is tragic man. If he really murdered her, hope he rots in prison. Very sad.

[Kozerog]

More photos here:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1065215023874583&id=180696825659745

Better photo of alleged perpetrator, American citizen but born in Egypt, and name Mahmoud not Mike/Michael:

https://m.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=3300992396650579&id=100002195540078&set=p.3300992396650579

[IdiotSavant]

MagicSheep74 I actually respect your opinion much more than I respect dramafree's opinion. Maybe someone as young as IdiotSavant would be better off in Spain. But the Ukrainian girls seem much more comfortable with an old fuck like me than the mediteranian girls ever did. Besides, escorts are much more expensive in Spain in my limited experiience.I have been told Kharkiv can be very cost effective and that the girls have less opportunity therefore they are more aggressive in dating foreigners.

May I ask what I can expect to pay for younger high quality girls? Think the Russian porn that was coming out five-10 years ago.

I'll be honest. Even if Kyiv or Kharkiv are a strikeout it's been a game plan for a minute and you sound confident I can enjoy myself which is reassuring. Also as far as I can tell I can't visit Spain but specific areas would be greatly and humbly appreciated.

Where might also be some of the best places worldwide to work on my art remotely with the 18+ girls in mind? Pattaya was a plan but it may never recover post Covid I hear. Right now I'm rather limited by my US passport but any advice on locations would be appreciated both immediately accessible and historically flush with opportunity.

I have around $50000 saved up and $2000 a month coming in from commissions with passive income to work with that's what UAE to USD was so appealing I'm somewhat limited financially.

I plan on doing three months at a time in Ukraine perhaps the first month in Kyiv second in Kharkiv and third in Lviv. I will clear my passport for three months elsewhere and go back IF it turns out to be a living situation I can get behind.

Ideally I find some girl right out of high school who wants to eat sushi and steaks every night and go to the Opera a few days a week while we rent out a box. Given the currency exchange rate my savings and passive income and my experience in the P4P scene in Detroit (I'm not an easy scam after spending extensive time in Detroit extras clubs) I am hoping I can find a few college students and focus on my editing work while I attempt to live my youth that wasn't exactly a blast given the high risk factor and stress of my work in my twenties.

I appreciate your advice.

[Kozerog]

Comment on the Facebook page: "What kind of American travels to Ukraine in the middle of the covid pandemic? If not business reasons, then moral freaks, perverts and losers. " Lots of other comments blaming the girl for having chosen the easy life of prostitution instead of working 12 hours/day as a cleaning woman. Jealous haters, like our resident drama troll.


...As I read, I can pass covid test in borispol airport, just making 1 hour file and test, then result is after 40 hour and I'm free from quarantine, can anyone confirm me this? That situation is really complicate.Yes, complicated and changes every day. Official rules at https://visitukraine.today.

In practice, they are sometimes letting people through passport control without verifying they have installed the quarantine app. If so, maybe skip testing. Possibly they check when you leave Ukraine that you followed all the rules when you entered, though given all the confusion, I doubt it. You still need insurance. I used https://www.oberig-sg.com/strahovanie-migrantov.

[Uke Boy]

Comment on the Facebook page: "What kind of American travels to Ukraine in the middle of the covid pandemic? If not business reasons, then moral freaks, perverts and losers. " Lots of other comments blaming the girl for having chosen the easy life of prostitution instead of working 12 hours/day as a cleaning woman. Jealous haters, like our resident drama troll.

Yes, complicated and changes every day. Official rules at https://visitukraine.today.

In practice, they are sometimes letting people through passport control without verifying they have installed the quarantine app. If so, maybe skip testing. Possibly they check when you leave Ukraine that you followed all the rules when you entered, though given all the confusion, I doubt it. You still need insurance. I used https://www.oberig-sg.com/strahovanie-migrantov.The girl was not to blame. She had five children who needed help and this job may have been her only option. May she rest in peace. May Mahmoud burn in hell after the hell of a Ukrainian prison camp.

Now, more bad news for those who are planning a September arrival in Ukraine. Here is the article:

https://korrespondent.net/ukraine/4267303-kabmyn-prodlevaet-karantyn-y-zakryvaet-hranytsu

In short, the Prime Minister and the Cabinet has today decided to close the border for entry to all foreigners except those with residency status or humanitarian workers, diplomats, the usual cast of characters etc from 00:00 on August 29 and will run until 00:00 on September 28. If you have plans to come during this time, you need to cancel or change them to a later date, but be aware that they may also extend the entry ban. It is all up in the air now for those who have plans to come here.

Here is an update: https://www.obozrevatel.com/society/kabmin-ofitsialno-prodlil-karantin-v-ukraine-do-1-noyabrya.htm

Also, nightclubs and discos are being ordered to close but not restaurants.

[Ringudor]

As I see, my Kiev trip is not possible, borders are closed again.


The girl was not to blame. She had five children who needed help and this job may have been her only option. May she rest in peace. May Mahmoud burn in hell after the hell of a Ukrainian prison camp.Girls has never to be blamed for sex work, also if she doesn't want the job to maintain family, also if she just wants extra money for clothes.

[Sorbonne]

Very disturbing and shocking news regarding unforgivable behavior from a monger here in Kiev.

Here is the link to the news article:https://korrespondent.net/city/kiev/4267074-v-stolytse-ynostranets-zadushyl-prostytutku.

A quick translation.

"Last night at 1/22 Filatov Street, an American named Mike rented an apartment. During the evening, a pimp brought a lady to him. When she did not come out several hours later, a pimp came to bring her back, but no one opened the door. Then the pimp broke the locks in one of the parked cars in the yard, pulled out a set of tools and started gouging the door. He was unable to open it (and on the contrary, he somehow blocked the apartment even more).

In the morning, a neighbor came to the door and called the police. Then from behind the door Michael's voice was heard, and he began to ask for help. He said that he felt bad, that he was suffocating and he needed to go to the hospital. The owners arrived with the documents for the apartment and the emergency workers opened the door. An ambulance took Mike away. An hour later, the owners found the corpse of a woman behind the sofa. It turned out that he strangled her. Mike escaped from the hospital but in the evening he was detained at the airport. The murdered woman turned out to be a mother of 5 children. ".

This is a photo of the alleged murderer https://www.facebook.com/KyivOperativ/photos/p.1065253680537384/1065253680537384/?type=3&theater.Jeez. First and foremost, so sorry for the woman. Second, a bad news for pros and semi-pros in need of money in Ukraine. Last but not least, a terrible news for us!

But what was going on with the freak? The scene of the crime seems to be right by KBP, indicating he was planning to do it and to fly right away. Then why was he suffocating? His plan apparently went awry?

[Sorbonne]

Sorry, I cannot find the reference. The criteria Ukrainian Government uses is based on 3 factors observed over a sliding one-week window:

1. Number of infected per 100,000.

2. Percentage of used hospital beds.

3. Number of tests per 100,000.

I do not know how trustworthy Ukrainian data is. Too many things may skew its quality: unreliable tests, availability of tests, willingness of people to get tested, etc.

One of my regulars recovered from COVID in March-April, and didn't go for testing. She didn't want to get locked up.

And certainly statistical data can be tweaked and manipulated.Thanks as always.

[YummyPL]

But what was going on with the freak? Why was he suffocating? The scene of the crime seems to be right by KBP, indicating he was planning to do it and fly right away.I sort of thought maybe he was faking it so he would be rushed to the hospital and escape before they found the woman. I suspect he was trapped in the apartment from the damage the "pimp" did to the door so he needed a way to escape.

I almost hate to write a report.

Saw another Mamba girl today. Says she is 27 which might be true. Tall, thin, firm body; small tits in not great condition (assumed she breast fed although no other signs of child birthing) but not so bad; face is not so great but not bad; overall a 6+ on looks and 8 on attitude by my standards; good performance, decent skills, and a valiant effort. She was nice and she tried hard. She speaks enough English to get by. Arranged $100 USD for 3 hours. Sent her home after two hours and one pop. Her pictures on Mamba are accurate. I will give her contact by PM if anyone is interested.

[Jojosun]

The girl was not to blame. She had five children who needed help and this job may have been her only option. May she rest in peace. May Mahmoud burn in hell after the hell of a Ukrainian prison camp.

Now, more bad news for those who are planning a September arrival in Ukraine. Here is the article:

https://korrespondent.net/ukraine/4267303-kabmyn-prodlevaet-karantyn-y-zakryvaet-hranytsu

In short, the Prime Minister and the Cabinet has today decided to close the border for entry to all foreigners except those with residency status or humanitarian workers, diplomats, the usual cast of characters etc from 00:00 on August 29 and will run until 00:00 on September 28. If you have plans to come during this time, you need to cancel or change them to a later date, but be aware that they may also extend the entry ban. It is all up in the air now for those who have plans to come here.

Here is an update: https://www.obozrevatel.com/society/kabmin-ofitsialno-prodlil-karantin-v-ukraine-do-1-noyabrya.htm

Also, nightclubs and discos are being ordered to close but not restaurants.Lockdown extended until end of Oct. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-ukraine/ukraine-bans-foreigners-extends-lockdown-measures-to-fight-covid-19-government-meeting-idUKKBN25M1HP.

KYIV (Reuters) - Ukraine on Wednesday imposed a temporary ban on most foreigners from entering the country until Sept. 28 and extended lockdown measures until the end of October to contain a recent spike in coronavirus cases.

Speaking at a televised cabinet meeting, Prime Minister Denys Shmygal also said the government would need to take a decision on Thursday on whether to ban major public events in September.

[Sorbonne]

Now, more bad news for those who are planning a September arrival in Ukraine. Here is the article:

https://korrespondent.net/ukraine/4267303-kabmyn-prodlevaet-karantyn-y-zakryvaet-hranytsu

In short, the Prime Minister and the Cabinet has today decided to close the border for entry to all foreigners except those with residency status or humanitarian workers, diplomats, the usual cast of characters etc from 00:00 on August 29 and will run until 00:00 on September 28. If you have plans to come during this time, you need to cancel or change them to a later date, but be aware that they may also extend the entry ban. It is all up in the air now for those who have plans to come here.

Here is an update: https://www.obozrevatel.com/society/kabmin-ofitsialno-prodlil-karantin-v-ukraine-do-1-noyabrya.htm

Also, nightclubs and discos are being ordered to close but not restaurants.This is also a terrible news for me. Although I'm still in Ukraine, my option was to go out of Ukraine and to come back in 3 months.

But the bigger issue for me is that if Ukraine is doing this, does it mean many other countries in Europe are also doing this? The Schengen Area might close the external border completely again. As of now I think the Polish border is open for the Ukrainians and those who have residence permit in Poland.

[Uke Boy]

Jeez. First and foremost, so sorry for the woman. Second, a bad news for pros and semi-pros in need of money in Ukraine. Last but not least, a terrible news for us!

But what was going on with the freak? The scene of the crime seems to be right by KBP, indicating he was planning to do it and to fly right away. Then why was he suffocating? His plan apparently went awry?The scene of the crime was in the Pechersk District of Kiev, right across the street from the fairly new high rises known as the French Quarter and also near the Ocean Plaza Shopping Center. They probably took that piece of filth to one of the two nearby hospitals, either of which would have been easy to get a cab from there and rush to Borispol where he was later arrested. Good, fast work by the police.

With the nightclubs and discos now closed, it also means any strip clubs which may have been open are likely also closed.

It also seems that the very many ladies who had been awaiting an uptick in business for the autumn are now once again facing major financial losses, at least for September. It may be great for those of us still here so there may be a silver lining for you, after all if you cannot leave.

[PhotoSlider]

The scene of the crime seems to be right by KBP, indicating he was planning to do it and to fly right away. Then why was he suffocating? His plan apparently went awry?I do not think he had a plan. Or whatever BDSM intentions he had, they didn't play out according to his plan.

The scene of the crime is 4 metro stations away from downtown, not that far at all. Actually close to Ocean Plaza Shopping Mall. Very cheap soviet apartment. It is sort of on the way to KBP, but barely 5-10% out of the city center, still ways to go to the airport. He didn't appear to have a good getaway plan.

For this sort of crime he will not be treated well in jail at all.

And this is not once a decade misfortune. These things happen. This is why upon entering apartment girls assess the environment and check in with their phone dispatcher. Then closer to the end of engagement they get a call again. This is both for logistics and security. Routing the girl to the next customer and taking care of her safety.

Girls from GIA told me in 2016 how they were running away from armed defenders of the Motherland through the bushes outside of Kiev.

This is also another reason why regular customers are valuable.

Poor soul! She was somebody's daughter, and somebody's mother herself.

[YummyPL]

This is also a terrible news for me. Although I'm still in Ukraine, my option was to go out of Ukraine and to come back in 3 months.FYI, I thought I read somewhere that all visas were extended automatically by 30 days. I am having trouble finding the reference. Maybe someone else?

[Uke Boy]

This is also a terrible news for me. Although I'm still in Ukraine, my option was to go out of Ukraine and to come back in 3 months.

But the bigger issue for me is that if Ukraine is doing this, does it mean many other countries in Europe are also doing this? The Schengen Area might close the external border completely again. As of now I think the Polish border is open for the Ukrainians and those who have residence permit in Poland.You can leave at any time since outbound passengers have no issue in leaving but it will be a major risk for you of not being allowed in later if there is a second wave of the virus, as many expect there will be. You have some tough decisions to make.

[Kozerog]

If there is a quarantine, you can just stay until the quarantine is over, regardless of what official rules say. Just shrug your shoulders and say all flights out were cancelled so you were stuck in Ukraine. At worst, border control charges $35 (1000 uah) or similar fine for overstaying your visa, then says you can't return to Ukraine until 90 days has passed. I overstayed in Spain this spring and no one said anything on exit.

Personally, I'm delighted to be "stuck" in Kyiv with my sugar baby. No where else I'd rather be right now.

[Jojosun]

Lockdown extended until end of Oct. https://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-health-coronavirus-ukraine/ukraine-bans-foreigners-extends-lockdown-measures-to-fight-covid-19-government-meeting-idUKKBN25M1HP.

KYIV (Reuters) - Ukraine on Wednesday imposed a temporary ban on most foreigners from entering the country until Sept. 28 and extended lockdown measures until the end of October to contain a recent spike in coronavirus cases.

Speaking at a televised cabinet meeting, Prime Minister Denys Shmygal also said the government would need to take a decision on Thursday on whether to ban major public events in September.And.

The kind of Public event held annually in Uman to celebrate The Jewish New Year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aDA49YXELUo

https://112.international / politics / ukraine-bans-hasidim-pilgrims-from-visiting-uman-in-2020-53970. Html.

[Sorbonne]

FYI, I thought I read somewhere that all visas were extended automatically by 30 days. I am having trouble finding the reference. Maybe someone else?Yes, I believe the official rule is that for those, like myself, who were in Ukraine when the quarantine started in March, we can stay in Ukraine for 30 days after the quarantine ends.

And the quarantine has been extended month after month since March with no end in sight, so this is my situation.

But if I want to leave, I can do so anytime. But once I leave, I can only come back after 90 days, if the border is open.

[Desin]

...I am hoping I can find a few college students and focus on my editing work while I attempt to live my youth that wasn't exactly a blast given the high risk factor and stress of my work in my twenties.With that sentence, I must bid you godspeed. May you find your youth and live it like none before you!

[Sorbonne]

If there is a quarantine, you can just stay until the quarantine is over, regardless of what official rules say. Just shrug your shoulders and say all flights out were cancelled so you were stuck in Ukraine. At worst, border control charges $35 (1000 uah) or similar fine for overstaying your visa, then says you can't return to Ukraine until 90 days has passed. I overstayed in Spain this spring and no one said anything on exit.

Personally, I'm delighted to be "stuck" in Kyiv with my sugar baby. No where else I'd rather be right now.Back in 2018 when I inadvertently overstayed in Ukraine by 2 days, I was made to pay 1600 UAH upon exit at the airport. This is still not so bad. But during this pandemic, breaking the law and compromising public health, as they might argue, may cast a heavier toll, I'm not sure.

"I overstayed in Spain this spring and no one said anything on exit. ".

This is amazing to me, LOL.

[Sorbonne]

FYI, I thought I read somewhere that all visas were extended automatically by 30 days. I am having trouble finding the reference. Maybe someone else?I think this one is it:

https://dmsu.gov.ua/en-home/6859/peculiarities-of-the-implementation-of-the-migration-legislation-during-the-quarantine-period.html

This one does not specifically say that you must have been here when the quarantine started on March 16.

But in any case I have been in contact with the local immigration office that tells me I have 30 days to leave after the quarantine ends.

[Sorbonne]

The scene of the crime was in the Pechersk District of Kiev, right across the street from the fairly new high rises known as the French Quarter and also near the Ocean Plaza Shopping Center. They probably took that piece of filth to one of the two nearby hospitals, either of which would have been easy to get a cab from there and rush to Borispol where he was later arrested. Good, fast work by the police.

With the nightclubs and discos now closed, it also means any strip clubs which may have been open are likely also closed.

It also seems that the very many ladies who had been awaiting an uptick in business for the autumn are now once again facing major financial losses, at least for September. It may be great for those of us still here so there may be a silver lining for you, after all if you cannot leave.So this was at Akademika Filatov Street in the center of Kiev. I landed on Filatov Street in Borispil, only 2 km of KBP.

I agree. He had no plan.

[Uke Boy]

I think this one is it:

https://dmsu.gov.ua/en-home/6859/peculiarities-of-the-implementation-of-the-migration-legislation-during-the-quarantine-period.html

This one does not specifically say that you must have been here when the quarantine started on March 16.

But in any case I have been in contact with the local immigration office that tells me I have 30 days to leave after the quarantine ends.Like anything else in this country, the rules are always set by the bureaucrat you have the misfortune to meet up with at any particular time and day. What the local immigration officer says may not be what the border guard will tell you when you get to passport control. I have had three different bureaucrats in three different offices at three different locations of the same government agency tell me three different things! And not one of them was ultimately right when the issue was resolved with a fourth office which was the correct one.

It is always best to be prepared for the worst, which in the case of overstaying the 90 days, can be a fine of up to 5,100 grivna or about $185. And the fine can also be less depending on the mood of the officer. It can also be paid on the spot by credit card!

[Sorbonne]

Like anything else in this country, the rules are always set by the bureaucrat you have the misfortune to meet up with at any particular time and day. What the local immigration officer says may not be what the border guard will tell you when you get to passport control. I have had three different bureaucrats in three different offices at three different locations of the same government agency tell me three different things! And not one of them was ultimately right when the issue was resolved with a fourth office which was the correct one.

It is always best to be prepared for the worst, which in the case of overstaying the 90 days, can be a fine of up to 5,100 grivna or about $185. And the fine can also be less depending on the mood of the officer. It can also be paid on the spot by credit card!Thanks for the info. I was wondering about the validity of the local immigration office, too, actually.

But it was the US Embassy website where I read that I should contact the local immigration office. You know the reality more than they do!

I'm starting to wonder if there is any visa I can apply for that gives me right to stay here for several months. This is because, say, if I want to go to Poland for 3 months and leave Ukraine but am unexpectedly denied entry, I want to come back to Ukraine immediately, but I'm afraid Ukraine won't let me in, resulting in having to go back to the US!

Maybe when I fly out of Kiev, I should ask at the Passport Control if I can come back in case of denied entry, or even make a deal. This may be easier at land borders.

[Kozerog]

@Sorbonne: If you leave Ukraine now, after having been here for 90+ days on a tourist visa, you will almost certainly not be allowed back until 90 days has passed. Regardless of what any border guard says. So be absolutely sure Poland will let you in. Otherwise, you may be stuck in the airport indefinitely until you can buy a ticket to a country that will accept you, such as Turkey, Serbia, North Macedonia currently. Or a ticket back to the USA.

[Sorbonne]

@Sorbonne: If you leave Ukraine now, after having been here for 90+ days on a tourist visa, you will almost certainly not be allowed back until 90 days has passed. Regardless of what any border guard says. So be absolutely sure Poland will let you in. Otherwise, you may be stuck in the airport indefinitely until you can buy a ticket to a country that will accept you, such as Turkey, Serbia, North Macedonia currently. Or a ticket back to the USA.Thanks for info, but that is why I was talking about applying for a visa. Some countries offer visas for freelancers or digital nomads, or if you have a Master or Ph. D, but perhaps not Ukraine.

Turkey accepts Americans? OK, I'll go there and mingle with Syrian refugee girls.

[IdiotSavant]

@Sorbonne: If you leave Ukraine now, after having been here for 90+ days on a tourist visa, you will almost certainly not be allowed back until 90 days has passed. Regardless of what any border guard says. So be absolutely sure Poland will let you in. Otherwise, you may be stuck in the airport indefinitely until you can buy a ticket to a country that will accept you, such as Turkey, Serbia, North Macedonia currently. Or a ticket back to the USA.Originally they were discussing a ban of red zone countries in respect to infection rates. Hours after a blanket ban was initiated that will likely go into effect tomorrow.

I opted to not get a flight in today. I am simply unprepared and didn't expect this.

My big question now is "What's next?" Will they ban red zone countries after this one month subsides or perhaps extend the ban of all foreigners? I don't feel anyone knows even the Ukrainian government but I can't assume this will be good economically for them also considering they are shutting down music venues and clubs. Economically I hope it doesn't hurt the local people but I am appreciative of a better currency exchange rate.

I feel its relatively likely within the next couple of months that infections in the US will decline and that Ukraine will open back up but it could go either way. Right now scientists are expecting rolling hotspots to become the "new normal" in the US but given Fall is coming up no one really knows.

[Uke Boy]

Thanks for the info. I was wondering about the validity of the local immigration office, too, actually.

But it was the US Embassy website where I read that I should contact the local immigration office. You know the reality more than they do!

I'm starting to wonder if there is any visa I can apply for that gives me right to stay here for several months. This is because, say, if I want to go to Poland for 3 months and leave Ukraine but am unexpectedly denied entry, I want to come back to Ukraine immediately, but I'm afraid Ukraine won't let me in, resulting in having to go back to the US!

Maybe when I fly out of Kiev, I should ask at the Passport Control if I can come back in case of denied entry, or even make a deal. This may be easier at land borders.The VERY LAST place you should go to for advice of any kind related to anything here in Ukraine is the US embassy, a group of useless know-nothings. They will definitely steer you wrong. What most people do here is ask about, asking others standing in the same lines about what they know or their experiences or for some advice. Unfortunately, for you, this is a problem.

If you want to know how to renew or extend a visa, here is a link to a local lawyer's site. Reading it will likely depress you, though. https://prikhodko.com.ua/en/how-to-renew-a-visa-to-ukraine/.

[Kozerog]

You can legally get residency visa for Ukraine by starting a business, then hiring yourself as the director. But there's a boatload of steps involved, so a lawyer is a must. Cost is around $1000/ year (assuming upfront costs spread over 3 years) with lawyer I consulted, but his plan involved some legal "creativity". Without the creativity, maybe $2500/ year. Main problem now is that you have to leave Ukraine to get visa D at a consulate, which might be closed and who knows what delays are like now, plus you might be denied for some reason and then what? Simpler to just overstay the tourist visa and ask pardon upon exit because of exceptional circumstances.

[Sorbonne]

Thanks for the info. I was wondering about the validity of the local immigration office, too, actually.

But it was the US Embassy website where I read that I should contact the local immigration office. You know the reality more than they do!

I'm starting to wonder if there is any visa I can apply for that gives me right to stay here for several months. This is because, say, if I want to go to Poland for 3 months and leave Ukraine but am unexpectedly denied entry, I want to come back to Ukraine immediately, but I'm afraid Ukraine won't let me in, resulting in having to go back to the US!

Maybe when I fly out of Kiev, I should ask at the Passport Control if I can come back in case of denied entry, or even make a deal. This may be easier at land borders.I wonder what would happen if I try to walk across the land border between Ukraine and Poland. I leave Ukraine and a few hundred meters away in Poland I am denied to enter. Then what? Put in jail? In which country?

[Uke Boy]

I wonder what would happen if I try to walk across the land border between Ukraine and Poland. I leave Ukraine and a few hundred meters away in Poland I am denied to enter. Then what? Put in jail? In which country?They will send you back to Ukraine. Now, you are in no man's land. How great is that?

You could try, as you said earlier, try talking with a border guard and make a deal. Bribing or trying to bribe Ukrainian border guards may very well land you in a Ukrainian jail and prison camp for a few years. It has happened to others who tried to bribe their way in and it is not worth it. They love making examples of people who try and evade the law, and an American would suit their purposes just fine. Just like Mahmoud, who could end up your camp prison bunk-mate. Plus, you will never again be allowed back in Ukraine. NEVER. Is that worth the risk?

Don't be stupid. Wait it out here. What's the problem unless you need to leave for other reasons? Overstaying and then paying a maximum of 5100 grivna or $185 seems to me no big deal. It is a civil and not a criminal penalty.

Seems that there is a new theory about the foreign tourist inbound shutdown. September / early October is the time for the annual celebration of the Jewish Rosh Hashanah holiday. Every year more than 30,000 Hasisdim come to Ukraine to visit the grave of their spiritual founder in Uman, Ukraine. It is believed this shutdown is designed to keep them out, or as many as possible and this was also at the request of the Israeli authorities. This year the holiday is from September 18 to September 20. This was done to keep them from spreading the virus further in Ukraine. By making this a total foreigner lock down, the government could not be totally accused of discrimination.

So, Sorbonne, relax and wait it out for another month and see what happens. I think that there might be one or two or more pretties you can find where you are to occupy you in the meantime.

[Uke Boy]

You can legally get residency visa for Ukraine by starting a business, then hiring yourself as the director. But there's a boatload of steps involved, so a lawyer is a must. Cost is around $1000/ year (assuming upfront costs spread over 3 years) with lawyer I consulted, but his plan involved some legal "creativity". Without the creativity, maybe $2500/ year. Main problem now is that you have to leave Ukraine to get visa D at a consulate, which might be closed and who knows what delays are like now, plus you might be denied for some reason and then what? Simpler to just overstay the tourist visa and ask pardon upon exit because of exceptional circumstances.By and large, you can open a business here in Ukraine without too many issues. There are a few pain in the ass issues but they can be overcome with local legal assistance. The main issue for Sorboone is residency. That, too, can be somewhat overcome but, and that is a huge BUT, he would need to invest at least 100,000 euros or dollars before that issue comes into play.

The incompetent president Zelensky earlier this year said he wanted to make it easier for foreigners to live and invest in Ukraine Nice words, no actions, given he and his party basically control the government, for now. Lots of huge disappointment all around from the locals who voted for Zelensky and his stooges.

[Jojosun]

And.

The kind of Public event held annually in Uman to celebrate The Jewish New Year.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aDA49YXELUo

https://112.international / politics / ukraine-bans-hasidim-pilgrims-from-visiting-uman-in-2020-53970. Html.More dramas at Ukraine Airports.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/fuming-over-uman-ban-bratslav-sect-vows-to-never-back-netanyahu-again/

The Arabs were let through at once, but when they saw someone with a beard and sidecurls they told him to wait," Moshe Grisin said, according to Channel 12. "They started taking us for individual conversations; they wanted to hear us say 'Uman' and then they wouldn't let us in. ".

He said some 30 people had been held at the airport for more than 12 hours, without kosher food, leading one man to faint. He said they suffered some violence, and that their phones were taken away when they attempted to film it. Other eyewitnesses said some were held behind barbed wire.

Grisin added that the airport officials filled out forms on their behalf saying they were willing to return to Israel.

[Sorbonne]

Seems that there is a new theory about the foreign tourist inbound shutdown. September / early October is the time for the annual celebration of the Jewish Rosh Hashanah holiday. Every year more than 30,000 Hasisdim come to Ukraine to visit the grave of their spiritual founder in Uman, Ukraine. It is believed this shutdown is designed to keep them out, or as many as possible and this was also at the request of the Israeli authorities. This year the holiday is from September 18 to September 20. This was done to keep them from spreading the virus further in Ukraine. By making this a total foreigner lock down, the government could not be totally accused of discrimination.
I see.

Now I finally see the relevance of Jojo's latest post.

[Questner]

https://www.kmu.gov.ua/en/news/uryad-utochniv-kategoriyi-inozemciv-yaki-zmozhut-vyizhdzhati-v-ukrayinu-v-period-obmezhen

LOL, don't you ever think of becoming a Director in Ukraine, please.

Government singles out certain categories of foreign citizens who will be able to enter Ukraine during the restricted period.

Communications Department of the Secretariat of the CMU, posted 27 August 2020 20:21.

Emergency.

Restrictions on the entry of foreign citizens into the territory of Ukraine will be put in place starting from 00:00 on August 28 to 00:00 on September 28.

The Government at an extraordinary meeting on August 27 amended the Resolution of the Cabinet of Ministers of July 22,2020 №641 "On the introduction of quarantine and the stepping up anti-epidemic measures in the area with a significant spread of acute respiratory disease COVID-19 caused by coronavirus SARS -CoV-2".

It was also decided to annul as unimplemented the resolution on amendments to Resolution №641, adopted on August 26.

In order to prevent the spread of the second wave of acute respiratory disease COVID-19 on the territory of Ukraine, there was made a decision to introduce temporary restrictions on entry into Ukraine for foreigners.

At the same time, certain categories of foreign citizens will have the right to enter the territory of Ukraine during the period of temporary restrictions. Also, in accordance with Ukrainian legislation, the Head of the State Border Guard Service may make additional decisions on the controlled passage of foreigners across the state border.

According to the Government decision the following categories of foreign citizens are not subject to the ban on entry to Ukraine:

- persons who are spouses or children of Ukrainian citizens;.

- persons who have an official valid work permit in Ukraine;.

- technical specialists who arrive in Ukraine at the invitation of representatives of Ukrainian enterprises;.

- transit passengers who have documents confirming departure abroad within two days;.

- person who arrive in the country for training purposes;.

- persons who are serving in the Armed Forces;.

- persons who have permanent or temporary residence permit in Ukraine;.

- persons who are heads and members of official delegations of foreign states, employees of international organizations, as well as persons accompanying them and entering Ukraine at the invitation of the President of Ukraine, the Verkhovna Rada, the Cabinet of Ministers, the Office of the President, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

- persons who are drivers and / or crew members of freight vehicles, buses engaged in regular transportation, crew members of aircraft, ships and river vessels, members of train and locomotive crews;.

- cultural figures who arrive at the invitation of a cultural institution together with one person accompanying each of them;.

- persons who arrive to participate in official sports competitions held in Ukraine, and accompanying persons;.

- persons who carry out transportation of hematopoietic stem cells for transplantation;.

- persons who arrive for treatment in health care institutions of Ukraine.

These categories of foreign nationals must have an insurance policy to cover possible costs associated with COVID-19 treatment and observation (issued by an insurance company with a representative office in Ukraine).

The following categories of foreigners will also be able to enter the territory of Ukraine:

- persons who are recognized as refugees or persons in need of additional protection;.

- persons who are diplomats, employees of consular posts, missions of official international missions, organizations accredited in Ukraine, and members of their families or are persons who arrive at the invitation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine;.

- persons who are instructors of the armed forces of NATO member states and member states of the NATO "Partnership for Peace" program, who take part in training events for units of the Armed Forces of Ukraine or arrive at the invitation of the Ministry of Defence.

[PhotoSlider]

- persons who arrive for treatment in health care institutions of Ukraine.What is considered "treatment"?

Can I come in because of my back pain? Or for colonoscopy? Or because I have migraines? Or for an extensive diagnostics that forces me to spend 90 days in Ukraine with a team of nurses, therapists and maids assigned on a 24 x7 basis?

There are so many health conditions that are not contagious, and cannot be checked by the airport immigration officers.

Would it require a special type of visa? I suppose one cannot say at the border that he arrived as a tourist. Then what sort of regulations apply?

[Kozerog]

The main issue for Sorboone is residency. That, too, can be somewhat overcome but, and that is a huge BUT, he would need to invest at least 100,000 euros or dollars before that issue comes into play.
That's not true. You do not need to invest $100 K to start a company and then get a working visa as director of that company. Only about $3000 startup costs for first 3 years, then possibly a few thousand more each year in ongoing costs, so somewhere between $1000 and $2500 per year total, for first 3 years, less thereafter. This is a forum about mongering, not expat life, so I'm not going to go into more details.

[PhotoSlider]

So this was at Akademika Filatov Street in the center of Kiev. I landed on Filatov Street in Borispil, only 2 km of KBP.

I agree. He had no plan.He arrived to Kiev for work. Rented this apartment for 6 months, and the crime happened on his day 4 in the country. TV report claims he told the apartment manager that he'll go to the hospital on his own, but in fact got the taxi and went straight to the airport. Police took him into custody half an hour before the departure. This is in Ukrainian for those of us that understand:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDQERbswCTY&frags=pl%2Cwn

[Uke Boy]

More dramas at Ukraine Airports.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/fuming-over-uman-ban-bratslav-sect-vows-to-never-back-netanyahu-again/

The Arabs were let through at once, but when they saw someone with a beard and sidecurls they told him to wait," Moshe Grisin said, according to Channel 12. "They started taking us for individual conversations; they wanted to hear us say 'Uman' and then they wouldn't let us in. ".

He said some 30 people had been held at the airport for more than 12 hours, without kosher food, leading one man to faint. He said they suffered some violence, and that their phones were taken away when they attempted to film it. Other eyewitnesses said some were held behind barbed wire.

Grisin added that the airport officials filled out forms on their behalf saying they were willing to return to Israel.It appears that in order that there be no more such "dramas" at the airports or other border crossings, the ban on foreigner entry was suddenly moved up and placed into effect as of 00:00 today and not as previously reported 00:00 August 29.

[Sorbonne]

I think that there might be one or two or more pretties you can find where you are to occupy you in the meantime.
True. Things have been going out of control lately in my neighborhood. Girls have been screaming "Hello! Hello!" into my window of my apartment on the 3rd floor.

[YummyPL]

This site really is getting to be more like Trip Advisor than ISG.

I will say that there are few things I am more thankful for than being in Ukraine during a global pandemic. I don't know if it is truly better, but I get the sense that I am very fortunate to be here during this time.

Had my 4th SA girl (of those I have actually had sex with) this morning. Phenomenal. I am going to talk about it in FKK terms again. As I have stated before, in the big FKKs, there are 30% or less of the girls that I am interested in being with (including in the Globe, Artamis, Oase). Not that there are not other attractive girls, but these 30% are my taste. Out of the more than 100 FKK girls I have been with, I would rate todays girl easily among the top 20% of those girls. That means, at the worst for my particular tastes, she is in the top 6% of girls I would find in an FKK. Does that put her in the top 10% of girls as a whole? I don't know. But if FKK girls are better than average, then I believe she must be close. Young and very much my taste. (and easily in the top 10% of GIA girls based on their picturesI've never used GIA or their successor site).

Great passion, great attitude, and enthusiastic effortand, as PhotoSlider likes to say, very well mannered. She didn't touch her phone, she was attentive the entire time, she doesn't smoke, and she is very sweet. I could not ask for better.

A bit expensive for Ukraine, but at under $250 USD for 3 solid hours of attentive and passionate service, she was great. I will repeat and she seems very eager to see me again.

So far in Kyiv for 22 days. I saw SA#1 once, I saw SA#2 twice, I saw SA#3 once and might see her again, I have seen the Mamba 18 yo eight times and will see her again and again if I can, I had the "freebie", I saw Mamba girl #2, and I had SA#4 who I will definitely see again. I have dropped three SA girls for being too flaky without ever meeting them, met one for lunch that I won't see for sex, had a Mamba no call / no show, and met another SA girl for lunch that I am seeing Sunday for intimate time who is very attractive. I am juggling schedules with 5-6 other contacts that I have not yet had time to meet. Life continues to be good.

[Kozerog]

Same as YummyPL, I feel very privileged to be here in Ukraine during this pandemic. As the world economy falls apart, I don't worry in the least. Maybe I sense that Ukraine is my lifeboat as the ship sinks. Every day I wake up so happy that I'm not in the USA right now.

Anyway, my sugar baby just left. This is our 12th meeting since I arrived in mid-July (not counting some non-sex meetings when I was sick with a nasty ear infection that was driving me crazy with itching and noises in my head). Sex is at a very high level. I won't bore everyone with details, but I practice Tantric type sex and can't do that with just anyone. Girl has to have the right personality, and this one does, which is why I've been seeing her every summer for past 4 years. I only see her twice weekly, to keep things fresh. If I were younger, I'd see other girls on free days, but at this point in my life, I just lack the desire for more than this one girl. I'll file another report when I finally leave Kyiv, whenever that may be.

[Uke Boy]

This site really is getting to be more like Trip Advisor than ISG..Sometimes you do need a combination of Trip Advisor, Linkedin and the latest news updates to try and figure out just what the hell is going on here, which is not always easy for the majority of mongers.

Glad you are having a sensational time!

[Jojosun]

Originally Posted by UkeBoy View Original Post.

Seems that there is a new theory about the foreign tourist inbound shutdown. September / early October is the time for the annual celebration of the Jewish Rosh Hashanah holiday. Every year more than 30,000 Hasisdim come to Ukraine to visit the grave of their spiritual founder in Uman, Ukraine. It is believed this shutdown is designed to keep them out, or as many as possible and this was also at the request of the Israeli authorities. This year the holiday is from September 18 to September 20. This was done to keep them from spreading the virus further in Ukraine. By making this a total foreigner lock down, the government could not be totally accused of discrimination.

They had this in mind as well with the ones who managed to get to Uman. https://www.timesofisrael.com/locals-clash-with-hassidic-jews-trying-to-reach-pilgrimage-site-in-uman-ukraine/.

[Questner]

What is considered "treatment"?

Can I come in because of my back pain? Or for colonoscopy? Or because I have migraines? Or for an extensive diagnostics that forces me to spend 90 days in Ukraine with a team of nurses, therapists and maids assigned on a 24 x7 basis?

There are so many health conditions that are not contagious, and cannot be checked by the airport immigration officers.

Would it require a special type of visa? I suppose one cannot say at the border that he arrived as a tourist. Then what sort of regulations apply?Certainly it's a loophole. This region of the country is famous for medical tourism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakarpattia_Oblast.

Other than that it's clear that they mean corroborated, ongoing cases with likely paperwork, mostly for injuries, rehabilitation, surgeries etc.

[Questner]

Originally Posted by UkeBoy View Original Post.

Seems that there is a new theory about the foreign tourist inbound shutdown. September / early October is the time for the annual celebration of the Jewish Rosh Hashanah holiday. Every year more than 30,000 Hasisdim come to Ukraine to visit the grave of their spiritual founder in Uman, Ukraine. It is believed this shutdown is designed to keep them out, or as many as possible and this was also at the request of the Israeli authorities. This year the holiday is from September 18 to September 20. This was done to keep them from spreading the virus further in Ukraine. By making this a total foreigner lock down, the government could not be totally accused of discrimination.

They had this in mind as well with the ones who managed to get to Uman. https://www.timesofisrael.com/locals-clash-with-hassidic-jews-trying-to-reach-pilgrimage-site-in-uman-ukraine/.Israel had more than 2,000 new cases only in the last day, so it has nothing to do with discrimination, especially knowing the President's heritage.

[YummyPL]

OK, for those of you who DO NOT like tight bodied, pretty, enthusiastic, skilled, and "well mannered", young 21 year old girls, then maybe she wasn't very good. But for those of you that are actually sane, SA#5 was fantastic.

These girls are blowing my FKK experiences out of the water.

I commented to a couple of my friends here: I think I must have contracted COVID-19 a couple of months ago, because I am almost certain I have died and gone to heaven.

[Fred54]

OK, for those of you who DO NOT like tight bodied, pretty, enthusiastic, skilled, and "well mannered", young 21 year old girls, then maybe she wasn't very good. But for those of you that are actually sane, SA#5 was fantastic.

These girls are blowing my FKK experiences out of the water.

I commented to a couple of my friends here: I think I must have contracted COVID-19 a couple of months ago, because I am almost certain I have died and gone to heaven.What is the price of such girl?

[Kozerog]

Talked to YummyPL yesterday. Don't worry guys, he didn't die from covid, though he did apparently arrive in heaven.

[Nvmliamz]

OK, for those of you who DO NOT like tight bodied, pretty, enthusiastic, skilled, and "well mannered", young 21 year old girls, then maybe she wasn't very good. But for those of you that are actually sane, SA#5 was fantastic.

These girls are blowing my FKK experiences out of the water.

I commented to a couple of my friends here: I think I must have contracted COVID-19 a couple of months ago, because I am almost certain I have died and gone to heaven.I'm kinda new to the Ukraine scene here, what does this #SA5 refer to? Very happy to join this community!

[Sorbonne]

That's not fair! I'm left here on earth.

[YummyPL]

Saw SA#6 today. Nice. Outstanding kisser. Cute face, mediocre body (big butt and some extra padding but some people like that), waaay too professional for my taste. 24 years old and has been doing it since she was 17. Said she got paid $4,000 for her virginity and has been a working girl since. Very bright and seems to be putting together a good future for herself. Won't repeat but an overall enjoyable but a bit strange experience. Can provide more details to anyone interested by PM.

[Ringudor]

I should be in Kiev now, I had my tickets for 23 August, I had to pospose one week for personal reaons and now border is closed, and maybe they don't open again for months,. Life is a shit.

[Riina]

Saw SA#6 today. Nice. SA has links to individual girls. How about posting one?

I'm a fan of SA in the states, but never used it in Ukraine. The few times I chatted with supposedly Kiev girls, I could tell it was a booker.

[Desin]

I've checked out VK.com for a while and it seems that it was a really convenient way for girls to get acquainted with clients, and vice versa. But, it seems that around 2017 many girls stopped to use it. And now, since it's banned on Ukraine, only few use it with VPN.

So. I did some googling and it appears that Instagram and Facebook became the new standard. At Instagram you can send direct messages, but nobody will probably read them or at least not bother to answer them. And it's more or less a shot in the dark, unless the IG profile is gained through some other way.

How about Facebook? I don't use it and it didn't allow me to create a fake account, but is there groups which people use to seek this kind of company? Lack of anonymity 'might' hinder it a bit.

And then there's the Mamba and Tinder, which seems to have girls who prefer 200-250 euros for an hour or two, which is ridiculous. But somebody pays that, since they keep asking for it.

BTW, have you noticed that when you meet a good girl. Good in bed and nice in personality. You don't want to share her, but those that you don't care about, you are willing to pass on to others as well? I'm puzzled by this jealousy, since it would be for the good of the girl to have more clients whom are nice, and thus she would be thankful for the guy who did this, but instead of thinking about her good the feeling of "I don't want others to have her, she is my precious ( Maybe I'll lose her if others have her? Is much more powerful. And why is that? They are paid for their interest and behaviour, but it's almost like one wants to believe in the illusion of it, and acts in a way that is familiar from regular relationships.

I have two regulars, one for 1,5 years and another one for bit less than a year. I wouldn't share their contacts with anyone, since I apparently keep them as 'meaningful' for myself. And yet, at any given day, they could end it without a blink. Life is strange.

[IdiotSavant]

SA has links to individual girls. How about posting one?

I'm a fan of SA in the states, but never used it in Ukraine. The few times I chatted with supposedly Kiev girls, I could tell it was a booker.Is it worth signing up for SA premium before I head over to make connections in Kyiv? I heard someone did this and did well for themselves.

Given the border may be locked down long term it may be risky but I am wondering how good SA is in Kyiv for Pros and Non Pros.

[Riina]

How about Facebook? Stay away from soliciting on a girl's legitimate social media. Most of the time your unwanted messages are an insult.

[Riina]

Is it worth signing up for SA premium before I head over to make connections in Kyiv?.I don't know if it's worth it, but I would try.

[YummyPL]

Is it worth signing up for SA premium before I head over to make connections in Kyiv? I heard someone did this and did well for themselves.Just some observations from my time so far.

Not all girls that fuck for money are pros or even semi-pros. Some really do want one or as few "clients" as they can while making the income they want. If inundated by thousands of messages from guys offering money for sex, then they disappear. This is true of Mamba, this is true of SA. My mamba girl has not been on Mamba in over two weeks. Yes she is still seeing me regularly. Maybe she has enough clients right now. Maybe if I gave her contact info a hundred guys will contact her and offer her more money and then she will raise her price with me or stop seeing me. If your favorite girl only wants 3 or 2 or 1 client, then competition is not good. I don't care at all if other guys are fucking her, as long as I keep getting what I want from her. If I posted a link to her profile, I think there is a strong possibility it could fuck things up for me.

SA is a mix. There are tons of time wasting scamsI'the say more than half. There are a lot of pros and semi-pros. And then there are "normal" girls. Normal girls do not last long. Usually not more than a few days. If your lucky, your timing will be good and you will have an in for meeting her. There are only so many messages a normal girl can get that say "how much for sex" before she leaves the site. SA takes a lot of work to hit the sweet spot with a normal girl. If you want a pro, there are plenty, but most of them will cost you a lot.

You don't have to be "nice" to these girls in the American sense (and maybe better that you are not), but respect goes a long way. Treating them like real people rather than a piece of meat goes a long way. It is really unfortunate that in Ukraine kindness is often seen as weakness (someone on this board said that and it is true), but respect goes both ways. Life circumstances can make the best girls do thigs they are not necessarily proud of, but if you make her understand it is not something to be ashamed of by respecting her, they appreciate what you give them even more.

When I do a meet and greet, I take my girls to a moderately priced restaurant. Nothing on the menu is more expensive than I want to pay. It has a nice atmosphere and there is enough privacy to have an open conversation. I can observe her manners and how she treats me in public. If she is down-to-earth and acts like a regular girl instead of someone selling herself, that is a really good sign.

At the end of our initial restaurant meet and greet, I took SA#5 to my apartment without ever discussing money other than the very general idea of "support. " I made it clear before going to the apartment that it was only to talk more. While in the apartment I talked to her more explicitly about what I am looking for (normally do this online but with her I didn't). Kissing is one thing that came up and she proactively demonstrated that she knew how to kiss. After talking for a while, we made plans for our first intimate meeting. She was on her way out and was not asking for anything. I offered her some taxi money (a little more than a taxi for sure) and she seemed pleasantly surprised.

I did a meet and greet with the girl I saw tonight (SA#7). At the end of the meal she started pulling out her wallet to pay for herself. Maybe she knew I would pay, maybe she didn't. But it is a nice gesture and again is a good sign. When we left each other, I asked if she needed anything for a taxi, and she said she didn't. I gave her a rose at the start of our intimate meeting and she seemed almost giddy about it. Before meeting we did not discuss money at all. At the end of the meeting I put some money in her back pocket and she didn't say a word about it. I know she wants money (she was on SA after all), but I suspect she was happy with what I gave her without ever talking about it.

SA is a LOT of work. I have contacted dozens of girls, maybe hundreds. The idea of messing up the very few successes I have had from all that hard work by posting a link would be stupid.

My SA#1 was absolutely a normal girl who needed money--long off the site but communicates with me from VIBER

My SA#2 was absolutely a pro--Still on the site

My SA#3 is absolutely a normal girl. I am completely certain. Very good kisser, shy about her body even though it is fabulous, stays with me much longer than arranged without any seeming regard for the time. Sex is not great, but her other qualities are so good, I am likely to see her a 3rd time--off the site for a while.

My SA#4 is almost definitely a semi-pro. Was comfortable talking about money but beyond that was completely carefree with her time and seem uninterested in money while giving exceptional service. I suspect she has a limited number of guys but was on SA again as soon as she left my bedroom. I want to see her again, and I think she doesn't want many clients so I don't want the competition--still on the site.

SA#5 very different girl but everything I said about #4 is also true with her. I want to see her again, and I think she doesn't want many clients so I don't want the competition--still on the site.

SA#6 was absolutely a pro--not logged onto the site in over a month.

SA#7 is almost definitely a semi-pro--back on the site shortly after she left my bedroom.

I will give info for SA#2, SA#6, and maybe SA#7.

[IdiotSavant]

Just some observations from my time so far.

Not all girls that fuck for money are pros or even semi-pros. Some really do want one or as few "clients" as they can while making the income they want. If inundated by thousands of messages from guys offering money for sex, then they disappear. This is true of Mamba, this is true of SA. My mamba girl has not been on Mamba in over two weeks. Yes she is still seeing me regularly. Maybe she has enough clients right now. Maybe if I gave her contact info a hundred guys will contact her and offer her more money and then she will raise her price with me or stop seeing me. If your favorite girl only wants 3 or 2 or 1 client, then competition is not good. I don't care at all if other guys are fucking her, as long as I keep getting what I want from her. If I posted a link to her profile, I think there is a strong possibility it could fuck things up for me.

SA is a mix. There are tons of time wasting scamsI'the say more than half. There are a lot of pros and semi-pros. And then there are "normal" girls. Normal girls do not last long. Usually not more than a few days. If your lucky, your timing will be good and you will have an in for meeting her. There are only so many messages a normal girl can get that say "how much for sex" before she leaves the site. SA takes a lot of work to hit the sweet spot with a normal girl. If you want a pro, there are plenty, but most of them will cost you a lot.

You don't have to be "nice" to these girls in the American sense (and maybe better that you are not), but respect goes a long way. Treating them like real people rather than a piece of meat goes a long way. It is really unfortunate that in Ukraine kindness is often seen as weakness (someone on this board said that and it is true), but respect goes both ways. Life circumstances can make the best girls do thigs they are not necessarily proud of, but if you make her understand it is not something to be ashamed of by respecting her, they appreciate what you give them even more..What is my best option than if I am relocating for a few months and want to just find a college aged girl to move into the air bnb and potentially travel? Also how much do these girls usually cost I'm USD and for what services? I have extensive experience with Detroit extras clubs so I need to start educating myself to avoid scams. What's fair in your opinion?

Is Kyiv better than Lviv or Kharkiv? Any advice on the move would be appreciated. I'm banking they open restrictions soon.

[Riina]

If inundated by thousands of messages from guys offering money for sex, then they disappear. This is true of Mamba, this is true of SA.The reality is there would be more hookers in Kiev if they were inundated by thousands of messages.

[DramaFree11]

Just some observations from my time so far.

Not all girls that fuck for money are pros or even semi-pros. Some really do want one or as few "clients" as they can while making the income they want. If inundated by thousands of messages from guys offering money for sex, then they disappear. This is true of Mamba, this is true of SA. My mamba girl has not been on Mamba in over two weeks. Yes she is still seeing me regularly. Maybe she has enough clients right now. Maybe if I gave her contact info a hundred guys will contact her and offer her more money and then she will raise her price with me or stop seeing me. If your favorite girl only wants 3 or 2 or 1 client, then competition is not good. I don't care at all if other guys are fucking her, as long as I keep getting what I want from her. If I posted a link to her profile, I think there is a strong possibility it could fuck things up for me.

SA is a mix. There are tons of time wasting scamsI'the say more than half. There are a lot of pros and semi-pros. And then there are "normal" girls. Normal girls do not last long. Usually not more than a few days. If your lucky, your timing will be good and you will have an in for meeting her. There are only so many messages a normal girl can get that say "how much for sex" before she leaves the site. SA takes a lot of work to hit the sweet spot with a normal girl. If you want a pro, there are plenty, but most of them will cost you a lot..Very good report, you shared the good and bad of Kiev, excellent job, that is all anyone can ask. Enjoy your trip.

[PhotoSlider]

BTW, have you noticed that when you meet a good girl. Good in bed and nice in personality. You don't want to share her, but those that you don't care about, you are willing to pass on to others as well? I'm puzzled by this jealousy, since it would be for the good of the girl to have more clients whom are nice, and thus she would be thankful for the guy who did this, but instead of thinking about her good the feeling of "I don't want others to have her, she is my precious ( Maybe I'll lose her if others have her? Is much more powerful. And why is that? They are paid for their interest and behaviour, but it's almost like one wants to believe in the illusion of it, and acts in a way that is familiar from regular relationships."More clients whom are nice"? Forgive my candor, but how can one be sure that the girl referenced to someone, will not end up dead behind a sofa in a filthy apartment?

I typically do not forward contacts without meeting a monger in person, because regardless of the girls quality and level of attachment to me personally, I feel responsible for my actions. There is reputation. There were occasions in the past when contact was given, and then the monger started penny-pinching, or made the girl feeling uncomfortable by his awkward behavior. And then both are out of the window. The old and the new guy, - the one who referred, and then one who got the reference.

What is good for one, may not fit the other. Girl may not like you, or vise versa. A year ago ISG member gave me couple contacts, and the meeting progressed to a botched threesome, ending in great sex with one girl, while the other ran away. Then the first one I met again, we had good sex, and then a difference of opinions after spending few hours together.

IMO ISG Forum is not a telephone book for drive through service. It is more of a best practices methodology, do's and don't's.

There are exceptional ladies that I shared with my ISG Forum friends. The criteria is simple, I must have complete trust that this particular gentleman will treat the girl as good as I do.

Another consideration, gentleman should be self-sufficient, fully capable to find the girl on his own. Also established contributor here on Forum. Some share with me, and on rare occasion I follow through, but Kiev is full of great girls as it is.

Then obviously there are great girls that I like a lot, and do not mind them being fucked by somebody else. And as has been said here, they are thankful. I am not afraid of competition. In fact, I still have a picture of me on the bed with two beauties on my sides, awaiting my Kiev-resident friend to arrive, and help me)) And one of these girls I see first time in my life, while the other one I had two days ago, then my yet another friend had her, and now she just learned that it is not going to be me staying with her. The response was: "I'm a big girl, I can handle it" But awaiting the 3rd man in 3 days, she fell asleep. Later on she actually had great fun with my friend in jacuzzi, while I took that new concubine for a get-to-know chit-chat to Avalon for a very nice dinner, where she put my hand high on her inner thigh, and covered it with a napkin.

Anyway, now I am rather close with that great girl that the three of us shared, but at this point it would be uncomfortable for me to tell her: "Hey, there's a visitor in Kiev. Would you like to?" And she is busy on her own. When I ask for an appointment, she provides a range of dates, and we are very happy together. We both know it is not exclusive, and respect each other's privacy. It is not so much about money, as important as the cash flow is. Girls may go to Dubai for better pay, to be abused by sheikhs and oil magnates there, but many of them prefer having regular life and great time in Kiev, and be compensated for their beauty. Support, not prostitution.

There was yet another great girl, that I very reluctantly had to literally hand off to ISG Forum member because I was tipple booked. And I was totally confident that she'll be in good hands. There was one condition only, - upon meeting each other for the first time, they had to see if they like each other enough to continue. With this particular lady, as gorgeous as she is, and as great as she is in the bed, I do not mind sharing her at all. With all the above conditions applied.

And then there are few girls that feel rather possessive of me themselves. One wants a reliable partner, and I explained that I shall continue seeing others. The other one, after a few months together told me straight: "Do not make any arrangements with other girls. " I laughed, and didn't confirm anything. I know I am not the only one in her life, but over time became the preferred one in any situation. She needs money now, but she would be furious if I were to say: "Hey, would you like to be fucked by a dozen or more guys from all over the place?

With some of the girls it is partially jealousy and being possessive, but much more complicated then that across the board.

As has been said before, Kiev is not McDonalds fast food facility. Go and find your own, then report, then maybe you will not need any contacts from others. Or maybe you'll say Kiev is too much work, not my cup of tea, and proceed with FKK, when they open up.

[YummyPL]

The reality is there would be more hookers in Kiev if they were inundated by thousands of messages.Perhaps. But if you read my posts, my biggest gripe has not been appearance, personality, or skills. Of the girls I have met, the biggest gripe I have had is that some were "too professional. " If I wanted professional I would go to an FKK. I don't want Kiev to turn into a machine churning out hardened pros. It is one of the few places where you can find basically "regular girls" that might overlook your age if you treat them right and help them in their difficult life situations (after all, the iphone 12 is coming out soon).

[YummyPL]

"More clients whom are nice"? Forgive my candor, but how can one be sure that the girl referenced to someone, will not end up dead behind a sofa in a filthy apartment?It is sadly ironic that a couple of weeks ago I commented about the danger of girls being chopped up into little pieces, which we don't really hear about in Kiev, but then this happened.

The apartment I am using for fun meetings has no apartment numbers inside at all. This is unusual for apartments in Kiev. Because I meet the girl on the street and walk them up, I don't give my apartment number. But I have had two girls comment that the apartments don't have numbers. It must increase the anxiety that she can't report where she is if she gets in a bad situation.

[PhotoSlider]

The apartment I am using for fun meetings has no apartment numbers inside at all. This is unusual for apartments in Kiev. Because I meet the girl on the street and walk them up, I don't give my apartment number. But I have had two girls comment that the apartments don't have numbers. It must increase the anxiety that she can't report where she is if she gets in a bad situation.Do Tinder girls even have someone to report to in case something less terrible happens? Like customer says: "Sorry, my sweet lady- you have poor manners. I don't like you anymore. I am not going to pay!" Well obviously that'll be the last meeting ever, but do Tinder / Mamba girls have some sort of security fallback routine? Or they just simply cut the losses, eat the cost, and post that jerk's number to their online blackbook?

It is keeping 100% of pay versus sharing with the pimp.

[IdiotSavant]

It is sadly ironic that a couple of weeks ago I commented about the danger of girls being chopped up into little pieces, which we don't really hear about in Kiev, but then this happened.

The apartment I am using for fun meetings has no apartment numbers inside at all. This is unusual for apartments in Kiev. Because I meet the girl on the street and walk them up, I don't give my apartment number. But I have had two girls comment that the apartments don't have numbers. It must increase the anxiety that she can't report where she is if she gets in a bad situation.So what about prices? Does the currency exchange rate have a major affect? Just trying to figure out if my intention is actually dating if an American salary is going to make a major difference.

[Incrociatore]

I've checked out VK.com for a while and it seems that it was a really convenient way for girls to get acquainted with clients, and vice versa. But, it seems that around 2017 many girls stopped to use it. And now, since it's banned on Ukraine, only few use it with VPN.For Mamba you need the VPN as well. Waste of time. Instagram is a waste of time as well, they do not answer. On Instagram, only one girl, 19, answered. She wasn't living in the city I was, and she was willing to travel to meet me (for free), but then I uploaded some other pictures of me and she changed her mind. She told me clearly the reason.

I don't have Facebook but I don't think many of them have it. Some have still VK, but once again you need to use the VPN. Not worth.

[Incrociatore]

In my opinion I would never relocate to Ukraine for the women. It's a very much a broken culture with a scam mentally. When the people perceive kindness as a weakness, then it should be avoided.

Are there hot Ukrainian women. Absolutely.

Are there nice Ukrainian women. Absolutely.

Will you be picking up really hot model type college chicks. Absolutely not.

From my experience, the only really attractive Ukrainian I have had were in Dubai. The minute they know there worth, they either glued to Instagram to find sugar daddies or get the hell out this depressing country. Sorry to say, but the so called Troll. Dramafree is absolutely spot on with his observations and comments.

You can travel for a few days with very attractive Ukrainian women by using. Elit_travel_girls on insta, but I would not waste a dollar in the country itself, unless you speak Ukrainian or Russian and have business interests there.

You would be much better in off in the South Coast of Spain with a great climate and an endless supply of Eastern European and Latin women.

Chasing hot women has been my life's work and I can live anywhere I want. Europe truly has much better destination to live and enjoy carefree sex.

Be safe.You are absolutely correct. I spent more than 50 days in Dnipro for work. I go there often and I confirm every word you said. And a city like Kharkiv is probably the same as Dnipro. Russian mindset, women just care about look and money, but look come first. They want an handsome man, and if it's not handsome he must be rich. $2000 is definitely not rich. They do care a lot about the way you look, you dress, what you can show. They are superficial women. The most attractive Ukrainian girls are around the world working as escorts. The ones still in the country often travel to Dubai or Istanbul, because they have clients there. The top notch are married with rich locals, and there are many, at least looking at the cars you can see around. Most of the girls have bad teeth. Ukraine is the country in the world where people have the worst teeth. Even beautiful girls can have horrible teeth.

[YummyPL]

I had another Mamba no call / no show so I decided to go looking for an apartment girl. After walking around the sports palace area for a while and not finding any of the shills that I have seen in the past, I asked a cab driver. He took me to a place close by.

There were two girls working, both young, one was heavy with a nice face, the other had a sweet body but a rather rough face. I chose the nice body. 1800 for an "hour" but when I got in the room it just felt rushed and stupid. Covered blowjob, no kissing. She did let me go down on her and everything was good down there but she immediately went into some fake seeming moans and movement. So I stopped. I would have tried to fuck her but I was not anywhere near hard. I left in about 20 minutes.

It felt like a Frankfurt RLD girl but worse.

I am actually glad I did it. I have not had an apartment girl since 2013 so it was fun seeing if I could find one and it was interesting entertainment for the evening doing the search. It was a learning experience but I will unlikely do it again. I am having much better success with my other girls.

The temperature was warm outside and it started raining lightly as I walked back toward my apartment. There was some really cool lightning. It was a truly beautiful evening.

[Incrociatore]

This site really is getting to be more like Trip Advisor than ISG.

I will say that there are few things I am more thankful for than being in Ukraine during a global pandemic. I don't know if it is truly better, but I get the sense that I am very fortunate to be here during this time.

Had my 4th SA girl (of those I have actually had sex with) this morning. Phenomenal. I am going to talk about it in FKK terms again. As I have stated before, in the big FKKs, there are 30% or less of the girls that I am interested in being with (including in the Globe, Artamis, Oase). Not that there are not other attractive girls, but these 30% are my taste. Out of the more than 100 FKK girls I have been with, I would rate todays girl easily among the top 20% of those girls. That means, at the worst for my particular tastes, she is in the top 6% of girls I would find in an FKK. Does that put her in the top 10% of girls as a whole? I don't know. But if FKK girls are better than average, then I believe she must be close. Young and very much my taste. (and easily in the top 10% of GIA girls based on their picturesI've never used GIA or their successor site).

Great passion, great attitude, and enthusiastic effortand, as PhotoSlider likes to say, very well mannered. She didn't touch her phone, she was attentive the entire time, she doesn't smoke, and she is very sweet. I could not ask for better.

A bit expensive for Ukraine, but at under $250 USD for 3 solid hours of attentive and passionate service, she was great. I will repeat and she seems very eager to see me again.A decent salary in Ukraine is $400. You gave her, for 3 hours, more than half of monthly salary. Let me be clear, so you understand, it's like paying a German girl who does 1600 a month, 900 Euro.

[Ringudor]

A decent salary in Ukraine is $400. You gave her, for 3 hours, more than half of monthly salary. Let me be clear, so you understand, it's like paying a German girl who does 1600 a month, 900 Euro.This si something I cannot understand, the big difference between sex price and medium salary in Ukraine, compared to any other country in the world.

[Riina]

A decent salary in Ukraine is $400. You gave her, for 3 hours, more than half of monthly salary. Let me be clear, so you understand, it's like paying a German girl who does 1600 a month, 900 Euro.It use to be that a monger would pay a $100 a girl and after meeting five, one would likely be awesome. Now guys pay 250 a meet and have to meet 20 for something good. Basically, prepare to shell out a year's salary to fuck mostly average girls.

[DramaFree11]

A decent salary in Ukraine is $400. You gave her, for 3 hours, more than half of monthly salary. Let me be clear, so you understand, it's like paying a German girl who does 1600 a month, 900 Euro.Yep, $250 to bang a 6. $150 way too much.

[PhotoSlider]

A decent salary in Ukraine is $400. You gave her, for 3 hours, more than half of monthly salary. Let me be clear, so you understand, it's like paying a German girl who does 1600 a month, 900 Euro.It is his money. Yummy traveled around the world enough to make up his mind on what is acceptable to him personally. The choice is cheap and low quality, or higher and paradise. AFAIK from reading here on the Forum, he did have German girls.

I do not think Yummy overpays, and have an impression that he is immensely happy with his setup. And I am very jealous. In a positive supporting way.

I'll try to shut up for awhile.

[Kozerog]

A decent salary in Ukraine is $400. You gave her, for 3 hours, more than half of monthly salary. Let me be clear, so you understand, it's like paying a German girl who does 1600 a month, 900 Euro.German girls earning 1600 cannot travel to another developed country (I'm excluding Dubai, in other words) and get 900 for sex, whereas Ukrainian girls earning $400 can easily travel to Germany or other European countries and get $250. So that pushes prices up for girls open to traveling. That said, you can still get sex from pretty semi-pros in Kyiv for $50, though lots of time spent finding these girls, or even free sex from civilians, and indeed YummyPL discussed a freebie in another post (free, that is, other than cost of dinner), so it's not like he's always paying up.

My own situation boils down to this: very unlikely I could find a situation in the USA comparable to the one I have in Kyiv, with a girl 30 years younger, at anything like what I'm paying here. I can afford giving this girl what amounts to a salary sufficient to live on (more than 400*12=$4800/ year when totaled up, but note that I continue to pay per meet and never promise a monthly allowance like some sugar daddies), so she doesn't have to work unless she wants to. If she sees other clients (I don't ask), she can be very selective about who she sees and she can demand $250 or whatever. Or maybe she sees guys her own age for free. If she has a day job, it's one that doesn't stress her. So she's always in a good mood when she visits me, always has time for me. I consider the money I give her to be well spent in terms of pleasure per dollar. Far better spent on her than on things like automobiles, apartments / houses, medical insurance, etc, none of which give me much pleasure.

[Sorbonne]

A decent salary in Ukraine is $400. You gave her, for 3 hours, more than half of monthly salary. Let me be clear, so you understand, it's like paying a German girl who does 1600 a month, 900 Euro.I would say 3000 UAH max for a few hours evening meeting and 5000 UAH max for an all night / all day meeting with a decently pretty (8 and up) girls.

If you can lower it down to 2000 for the former and 3000 for the latter, that would be a beauty.

But if she is a supermodel type or a high class courtesan, she can always demand as much as she wants. Whether or not to agree to pay her is I guess up to the client.

[Ringudor]

I can afford giving this girl what amounts to a salary sufficient to live on (more than 400*12=$4800/ year when totaled up, but note that I continue to pay per meet and never promise a monthly allowance like some sugar daddies), so she doesn't have to work unless she wants to.I never tried to have a sugar baby in Ukraine, just to know. How much you pay her for meeting? As they get a lot for 1 hour sex, I guess a full night should be crazy prize.

[Kozerog]

I never tried to have a sugar baby in Ukraine, just to know. How much you pay her for meeting? As they get a lot for 1 hour sex, I guess a full night should be crazy prize.LOL, I don't want her or any girl for a full night. I actually prefer to be alone most of the time, always been this way and getting more solitary with age. At my social activity last night, for example, I sat alone at my table and people watched most of the evening. Anyone, I pay her 5000 uah per meet, so about $180. Our original rate was less but I gave her a raise last year. Sex for about an hour, then 2-3 hours talking or watching YouTube, then I'm ready for her to leave. My goal is to make an offer she can't refuse but not so much I resent the expense. $180*25 meets is $4500 plus I typically give an annual bonus of $2000. Maybe more meets this year since I'm now trapped in Ukraine because of covid-19. My total after-tax expenses for 2019 were like $24 K and 2020 should be similar, but my income is higher, so no reason to try to keep costs down. (Reason my total costs are low is because I don't have a car, apartment or medical insurance back in the USA. Live in a motel and walk or take public transit for the months I'm there. Maybe in the future I'll stop visiting the USA and further cut costs.).

[Incrociatore]

LOL, I don't want her or any girl for a full night. I actually prefer to be alone most of the time, always been this way and getting more solitary with age. At my social activity last night, for example, I sat alone at my table and people watched most of the evening. Anyone, I pay her 5000 uah per meet, so about $180. Our original rate was less but I gave her a raise last year. Sex for about an hour, then 2-3 hours talking or watching YouTube, then I'm ready for her to leave. My goal is to make an offer she can't refuse but not so much I resent the expense. $180*25 meets is $4500 plus I typically give an annual bonus of $2000. Maybe more meets this year since I'm now trapped in Ukraine because of covid-19. My total after-tax expenses for 2019 were like $24 K and 2020 should be similar, but my income is higher, so no reason to try to keep costs down. (Reason my total costs are low is because I don't have a car, apartment or medical insurance back in the USA. Live in a motel and walk or take public transit for the months I'm there. Maybe in the future I'll stop visiting the USA and further cut costs.).But why Ukraine? Can't you go to Colombia, Brazil, or even Cuba? You will save a lot of money. In Ukraine everything is cheap except girls. I wouldn't pay so much, especially for a long term thing. I think if you see the girl so frequently you should pay much less. But maybe you are sixty and so it might be different. I'm in my early 40, I look in my early 30, and I'm not willing to pay so much, even if I can. I'm saving to retire in South America.

[Sorbonne]

Yep, $250 to bang a 6. $150 way too much.Yummy called her "phenomenal. " Where does this "6" come from?

Perhaps she is a supermodel type.

[Member #4722]

Yummy called her "phenomenal. " Where does this "6" come from?

Perhaps she is a supermodel type.Why even validate him with a response? I've never seen a guy more concerned with what other dudes do with their dick than DramaFree11.

[Kozerog]

But why Ukraine? Can't you go to Colombia, Brazil, or even Cuba? You will save a lot of money. In Ukraine everything is cheap except girls. I wouldn't pay so much, especially for a long term thing. I think if you see the girl so frequently you should pay much less. But maybe you are sixty and so it might be different. I'm in my early 40, I look in my early 30, and I'm not willing to pay so much, even if I can. I'm saving to retire in South America.I enjoy Ukraine and I don't much enjoy South America, though I speak Spanish fluently and spend several months each year in Spain. And saving money is not my goal since I can't even spend my current income. Why do people give nice gifts to people they like instead of saving the money?

[YummyPL]

A decent salary in Ukraine is $400. You gave her, for 3 hours, more than half of monthly salary. Let me be clear, so you understand, it's like paying a German girl who does 1600 a month, 900 Euro.But this is simply not true. A decent salary for highly skilled labor that is in high demand is much more than $400 in Ukraine, and young, sensual, and attractive women easily fit that labor category. It doesn't matter that the "average" salary in Ukraine is $400 which is averaging the salary of the babushka living in the village with a highly mobile workforce that has access to worldwide demand. The girl that I am paying $250 for has been a travel girl and will be again. At the moment she is in Ukraine. She is easily better than 90% of the FKK girls that I have been with, and an FKK girl would be a minimum of $400. I mean fuck, apparently $100 for an hour with a River Palace girl was a normal price, this is more than 10 years later and the world and market have moved on!

Right now FKK Globe charges $300 per hour for GFE. So, for GFE service for 3 hours it is $900. For a regular FKK for 3 hours it is over $400 and many (all?) German FKKs are closed now so not even available. The girl I am paying $250 is better than 90% of FKK girls in my opinion. She is better than any girl I have fucked in the UK that would be $500+ for 3 hours, and better than the girls in Madrid that would be more than $400 for 3 hours, and she is as good as dramafree's Moscow girls that would be at least $300+ for 3 hours. But I am being told that I am paying too much for an exceptional girl that has a worldwide market? I don't know about you guys, but I am 52 years old and not good looking, I have done P4 P all around the world in probably 30+ countries including Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Italy, Spain, Israel, Russia, Switzerland, Poland, Mexico, Brazil, Costa Rica, Canada, Lithuania, Latvia, and a bunch of Asian countries and I know what my preferences for a GFE areI am not over-paying for today's market.


It use to be that a monger would pay a $100 a girl and after meeting five, one would likely be awesome. Now guys pay 250 a meet and have to meet 20 for something good. Basically, prepare to shell out a year's salary to fuck mostly average girls.I have fucked 13 girls so far including 3 that were in the $100 range for 3 hours with one of those being adequate. I have fucked an attractive 18 year old at $180 for as long as I want her to stay which has been from 3-16 hours with most being 4-5 hours and, although not a model, she is awesome. Overall 2 of my SA girls have been awesome and one has strong potential. So overall that is better than your one in five. But selecting good girls takes time and effort, so there is a cost to that as well. But back home, they don't call us mongers, they call us hobbyists. This is my hobby, an expensive one, but one where the resources I spend are well worth the pleasure I get.


I'll never be able to understand one dimensional talk of nines and tens. There is so many factors that play into a good mongering experience that goes well beyond physical beauty.And the man that wrote this should understand that some girls are simply better than others. We all have preferences in looks. For me the perfect girl is Black hair, blue eyes, pale skin, small perky tits, about 155 cm tall and 43 toned kilos. (Unfortunately I have not had that yet)) but I know what I like and it is different than a lot of people. I have fucked well above 100 girls in my life, maybe close to 200, and about 5 of them have been blonde. Some guys love blondes. For me, it is a strong detraction that must be overcome by other facors. I might understand a blonde is pretty, but usually they just don't do it for me. But I have written again and again, that factors other than looks mean a lot to me. I am very selective. I share pictures of my girls with members of this forum. They are not 6's for sure.


SA has links to individual girls. How about posting one?And Riina, you asked me to share a link to my SA girls but you have not shared any direct information about any girls at all in the several years of your posts that I have looked at. Apparently you fuck a lot of girls. Why aren't you sharing?

[Riina]

And Riina, you asked me to share a link to my SA girls but you have not shared any direct information about any girls at all in the several years of your posts that I have looked at. Apparently you fuck a lot of girls. Why aren't you sharing?Actually, I shared a girl in detail just about every month on USASG for the last five years. Many members followed up on my leads and reposted their experiences.

Sadly, I'm not mongering for the moment. Not just because of Covid, but the scene changed in the last year. Still plenty of Ukrainian hookers, but it's different. The girls travel from other cities and the experience is very different from mongering local girls from your own community. The ladies view me now as 60 minutes where as before there was a real curiosity to see what else. I suspect the same phenomenon has occurred in Kiev.

[IdiotSavant]

But this is simply not true. A decent salary for highly skilled labor that is in high demand is much more than $400 in Ukraine, and young, sensual, and attractive women easily fit that labor category. It doesn't matter that the "average" salary in Ukraine is $400 which is averaging the salary of the babushka living in the village with a highly mobile workforce that has access to worldwide demand. The girl that I am paying $250 for has been a travel girl and will be again. At the moment she is in Ukraine. She is easily better than 90% of the FKK girls that I have been with, and an FKK girl would be a minimum of $400. I mean fuck, apparently $100 for an hour with a River Palace girl was a normal price, this is more than 10 years later and the world and market have moved on!

Right now FKK Globe charges $300 per hour for GFE. So, for GFE service for 3 hours it is $900. For a regular FKK for 3 hours it is over $400 and many (all?) German FKKs are closed now so not even available. The girl I am paying $250 is better than 90% of FKK girls in my opinion. She is better than any girl I have fucked in the UK that would be $500+ for 3 hours, and better than the girls in Madrid that would be more than $400 for 3 hours, and she is as good as dramafree's Moscow girls that would be at least $300+ for 3 hours. But I am being told that I am paying too much for an exceptional girl that has a worldwide market? I don't know about you guys, but I am 52 years old and not good looking, I have done P4 P all around the world in probably 30+ countries including Germany, Czech Republic, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Italy, Spain, Israel, Russia, Switzerland, Poland, Mexico, Brazil, Costa Rica, Canada, Lithuania, Latvia, and a bunch of Asian countries and I know what my preferences for a GFE areI am not over-paying for today's market.Another important thing to note on the subject of "average or median salary" is that tax evasion is heavily practiced and compared with the IRS and it's wheelhouse and reach much easier to get away with. Many people will tell you that those official numbers are skewed heavily without taking that into direct account.

From what I have heard personally your so called average yearly salary for a Doctor or entry level attorney is roughly $10000 $ 15000 USD a year ranging all the way up to $40000 $50000 yearly for those with experience.

I wouldn't mind your input YummyPL. These are all numbers from combing interviews statistics and websites. Highly unreliable but from what I understand $1000 a month is a fairly good salary for a college educated adult and it's somewhat higher in areas like Kyiv and Kharkiv Metro. How they get away with the unreported income for more regulated jobs is beyond me but could they be making more under the table?

As far as what you pay that's your business. It doesn't sound like your really getting screwed over but that's my perspective as someone who pays $300 a pop at Detroit extras clubs. Me personally I strongly prefer young Eastern European girls "Russian Ukrainian Belarusian" 18-24.

It sounds like the local market is not the cheapest place let alone the best one for girls of that ilk.

Still Ukraine's cost of living can truly drive down other living costs.

If you have any suggestions on other prime spots for the Eastern Europeans I would greatly appreciate it you sound experienced in respect to the local area. St Petersburg and Moscow seem nice but as for the local sex scene I have no clue what to expect.

[Hestendk]

Your correct with there is alot of black money in ukraine, its a standing joke here that for each UAH the Tax know about there is 1 Uah they don't know about so a 50/50 split.

I don't believe its 50/ anymore but its probably around 60/40 and falling every year.

The banks and lawyers are getting alot of KYC rules they need to handle right now, so where you before easy could buy a car with 30.000 USD cash now its much harder to do a transaction like that.

Even houses was paid in cash before mostly, I have 1 house and paid in Cash 70.000 USD, but my income is white.

The Minimum wage is around 175 USD, and yes the average probably around 400 USD as of now.

But the very rich contribute alot to this average number.

An college graduate here will in my opinion have hard to land a job at 1000 USD.

Only people that I know that land their first job at 1000 and not have an univeristy degree here is IT people and they start on 750 and upward depending on skills and position, but they in most cases also only pay 5%+20 Eur Tax each month so they live well.

The guys that stand on the tankstation and fill benzin for you get around 7800 In the bigger cities or the big chains, and then they ofc have the extra money people sometimes pay them.


Another important thing to note on the subject of "average or median salary" is that tax evasion is heavily practiced and compared with the IRS and it's wheelhouse and reach much easier to get away with. Many people will tell you that those official numbers are skewed heavily without taking that into direct account.

From what I have heard personally your so called average yearly salary for a Doctor or entry level attorney is roughly $10000 $ 15000 USD a year ranging all the way up to $40000 $50000 yearly for those with experience.

I wouldn't mind your input YummyPL. These are all numbers from combing interviews statistics and websites. Highly unreliable but from what I understand $1000 a month is a fairly good salary for a college educated adult and it's somewhat higher in areas like Kyiv and Kharkiv Metro. How they get away with the unreported income for more regulated jobs is beyond me but could they be making more under the table?

As far as what you pay that's your business. It doesn't sound like your really getting screwed over but that's my perspective as someone who pays $300 a pop at Detroit extras clubs. Me personally I strongly prefer young Eastern European girls "Russian Ukrainian Belarusian" 18-24.

It sounds like the local market is not the cheapest place let alone the best one for girls of that ilk.

Still Ukraine's cost of living can truly drive down other living costs.

If you have any suggestions on other prime spots for the Eastern Europeans I would greatly appreciate it you sound experienced in respect to the local area. St Petersburg and Moscow seem nice but as for the local sex scene I have no clue what to expect.I have Known / seen alot of younger girls who dropped out of university and now working in smaller shops or supermarkets, and they make less then 400 USD a Month and normaly rent something that cost less then 100 USD a month, they survive on the rest of the money and what they can get from guys.

[Sorbonne]

Why even validate him with a response? I've never seen a guy more concerned with what other dudes do with their dick than DramaFree11.Well, I had not read this forum for a few years before covid-19, so I don't really know who he is.

I'm validating you because I remember you once sent me some links.)

[Kozerog]

$300-$400/ month is typical wage for semi-skilled labor suitable for pretty girls in Kyiv, such as sales clerk, receptionist, office flunky, etc. So if you are sponsoring long-term and living in Kyiv, then you can offer $400/ month for 8 meetings per month, or $50/ meet, and that will be a very attractive offer, because you are doubling the girl's salary, plus it's tax-free money. But if you are only offering a one-time meet and you are a foreigner who obviously spent a lot of month to get to Kyiv, then the girl will likely be offended by $50, though it's possible she will accept, especially if she likes you.

I've given a lot of thought to this pricing question, because I might someday have to replace girl I have now. If I were working now with semi-pros, or civilians open to becoming semi-pros, I would start with an offer of 3000 uah or $108 for 2-3 hours at my apartment. That's a solid offer for a semi-pro, so unlikely to be rejected or for her to counter with a higher amount. If you convert the girl to a long-term mistress, then you can renegotiate after a few months to get that $50/ meet rate.

Agency girls have fixed rates and won't negotiate. Consensus on this forum is that 2000 uah or $72 per hour is typical minimum rate for outcall agency girls at agencies oriented toward foreigners, meaning agencies with younger and prettier girls. Lower rates for older women at brothels patronized mostly by locals. Exclude agencies with excessively high rates, commit to an hour up front, extend time if you like the girl.

Independent pros can charge whatever they want. If they are in high demand for whatever reason, then they can ask $250 an hour and too bad if you think that's too much. Plenty of rich guys in western Europe ready to pay that price, plus travel expenses, if the girl open to traveling.

[Stevie69]

In Russian, you can use Google translate.

https://news.finance.ua/ru/news/-/476879/skolko-ukraintsev-zarabatyvayut-1-tysyachu-v-mesyats

[Stevie69]

Dr. Fauci want the pandemic to continue in full force until November 1st, or even Feb 20th, just in case.

Masks protect the other guy, not you, and only if then are used properly, the way a surgeon would use them in a surgery room. The way regular people wear them, on and off and in and out of the pocket 100 times per day, the only thing the masks do is maintaining a state of fear.


I am not sure that "herd immunity" applies to Covid-19. In testimony today, Dr Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases in the USA, foresees a possible huge increase in cases in the US up to 100,000 daily new cases. This is with lots of unmasked dolts and idiots in bars, restaurants, public transport and elsewhere. Florida, Texas, and now California seem to put the lie to "herd immunity. " It is about the same here in Kiev as I travel about. I occasionally take a bus or trolley and only the singular jerk rides with the mask down or some even without a mask. I do not take the metro since that is probably Covid-19 breeder number 1. I try and take Uber wherever I go long distance and I also make the driver wear a mask if he has not done so already.

Those Swedish statistics are very arguable given that their neighbors have shut off all Swedes from entering Norway, Finland, Denmark, etc without a quarantine, let alone any other EU country. I would ignore and not consider the Swedish model as valid..

[Stevie69]

They are not pricier at home. Locals in Kiev defensible do not pay as much. The problem is that foreigners lose their minds and pay them one months' salary for 2 hours of work, of which they really work 30 minutes. In other countries where the girls go, the local market dictates the price.


Hestendk;.

Great report.

4000-5000 UAH for all night is still OK, but UAH 7000 (US $255) is already in the upside, considering you could easily find freelancer / escort in other countries in Europe, with that price range. But if they are 8-9 it might be worthy.

Is there a way to know to know that the one will turn up to your hotel is likely the one you see in the Mamba website and not heavily photoshopped? Just in case the one turns up to your hotel is not your liking is there any polite way to send them back?

Sometimes also I fail to understand the way the prostitution work in Ukraine. If you go to Czech Republic, Poland for instance US girls. You will normally pay less for UA girl, but it seems they are pricier in their own hometown??

In some cases of outcall girls in other countries especially they are very professional, they will go home or refuse to do another session after the first session? Is there nay way to spot this in advance?

[Stevie69]

Good work! 1500 UAH is probably what she would have charged you, so you got it half price.


I had my first "freebie" yesterday. I met her struggling to take one of those rolling baskets of groceries and two big 5 liter bottles of water down the stairs into the tunnel near Olimpiiska metro station. I offered to help and carried the two big bottles of water for her into the tunnel and out the other side. We talked a bit and I invited her to dinner. She hesitated but agreed. I carried the water for her back to her apartment building, stayed down in the "foyer" as she put the stuff in the elevator and took it upstairs. 5 minutes later she came down and we walked to Kuvshyn, a nice Georgian / Caucasian restaurant not far away. We sat on the terrace and I got the Saturday plov special and tea and she ordered a salad and juice. She shared some of my meal (it is big) which I always like. After eating we hung out in the park there and talked. After a while we made it to a small pub and had a couple of beers. After a couple of hours, we went for a walk and were nearing her apartment. I gave her a short kiss and asked if we should goodbye for the evening. She said OK and I went for another kiss that she responded to rather deeply. We made out a little on the street. I asked her back to my place and she offered to go up to her place instead.

Long story short, we had some pretty good sex. I didn't have any condoms with me and they were never mentioned. She seemed to have a good time and I also enjoyed it. She is not really my type. I would guess around 30 years old. She has a pretty enough face but is a bit stocky (but firm). I'd rate her in the 5-6 range because bodies are more important to me than face. Total damage for the time with her was about 1500 hrivnia (less than $60 USD) spent on both of us so less than half of that on her. No mention of any other money. She was fun and I might see her again as a "freebie..

[Stevie69]

Yes, the average man lasts only 5.5 minutes. Yes, I know we are all above average here, but if anyone here can last 3 hours, maybe he should be making movies and getting paid instead of paying for it.

I have never agreed to the 3 hour request. However, I have sometimes suggested a coffee to aquatint ourselves, or in the summer, to meet outside the apartment and talk for 5 minutes before going up. It also gives me a chance to make sure that the girl who shows up is the one in the photos. So ti is a two way street. I prefer not to have to turn then down at my door. If there is no chemistry, I offer 100 UAH for her metro ticket back home, but only if she was polite and as in her photos.

A much better strategy is to have girls you know, and with whom you have had a great time, suggest and invite their friends. That way, trust is already established and you do not have to do the silly song and dance.


Just my limited experience recently and in years past. Most Mamba girls like to sign up for 2-3 hours instead of an hour. Or maybe that is just me. I guess it is a way to increase income while reducing risk. Unless she is working for an agency, a solo girl has no "protection" from bad people so every meeting is more of a risk. A web / apartment girl has an infrastructure that protects her to a certain extent. She churns through hourly meetings. She pays at least 50% of her normal fee for that infrastructure, but it is better than being chopped up into little pieces or any of the other ways a guy can hurt a working girl.

Don't mention compensation unless she brings it up. She has already said she would meet you. The next step is usually moving to some kind of messenger app. If she is a working girl, she will absolutely bring up payment. More often than not it will be after you move to a messenger for whatever reason. She might put it on you and ask you what you are comfortable with. If it is close but too low she will make a counter-offer. If it is way to low then she will block you. When discussing compensation, ask if her pictures are real. Most aren't but insist on getting pictures. Make it clear that if either the girl in the pictures or someone you think is more attractive is not who shows up that you will send them home with nothing. Also, you are not going to get a $50 girl on Mamba unless she thinks you are hot which is doubtful. I can imagine offering 3,000 for 2-3 hours but not much less than that, again, unless you are hot. That is a little less than $120 USD. Again, you must remember she needs to be compensated for risk of time and safety..

[PhotoSlider]

...saving money is not my goal since I can't even spend my current income. Why do people give nice gifts to people they like instead of saving the money?This is the best!

Precisely the reason for my staying with regulars while in Kiev.

I like them. Not just sex, as great as it is. I like their classy behavior, I like how compliant yet strong minded they are. I like their independent spirit, and my personal freedom.

[YummyPL]

Yes, the average man lasts only 5.5 minutes. Yes, I know we are all above average here, but if anyone here can last 3 hours, maybe he should be making movies and getting paid instead of paying for it.For some of us, it is for a lot more than pumping our dicks in them for 5. 5 minutes. On Saturday, SA#4 stayed just short of 4 hours. We were kissing off and on for well over 30 minutes of that. I went down on her twice for probably 20 minutes total. She gives a nice blowjob but probably not more than 5 minutes but without me finishing. The actual sex with my dick being in her pussy was probably a total of about 20 minutes over 2 times. The rest of the time was spent cuddling, talking, touching each other, photos, drinking tea, etc.

When it comes to sex, my problem is not finishing too soon, it is being able to finish at all. Without the conversation, foreplay, kissing, touching, kissing her body, and other lead-up activities, then I could fuck until my lungs exploded and still not finish and eventually I would stop from discomfort or boredom. I would be happy if I could finish in 3 minutes sometime, but it rarely, rarely happens. For me sex is in my mind. If I don't have the foreplay triggers, then I am useless and can't finish at all. If you give me the right girl with the right foreplay, she can easily get me to finish 3 times in 3 hours if I want to (but I usually only do 2 and sometimes even 1). And that is the problem with most professionals--they treat sex as a solely physical thing without touching the mental aspects of sex and it does nothing for me. I don't practice Tantric sex as Kozerog does, but I do have my own psychology of sex.

It has been at least 10 years since I was capable of sticking my dick in a girl for 5 minutes without foreplay and reliably blowing my load no matter what her appearance was.

[DramaFree11]

Good work! 1500 UAH is probably what she would have charged you, so you got it half price.Good advice about at the door. I made that mistake a couple times during the Quarantine. Very uncomfortable if it is near you apartment. Some guys say they have no problem with this, but I do feel bad. I usually give them the benefit of the doubt, but if they are over weight or completely different photos, I say no.

[Stevie69]

Well, you are clearly above average, but even by your time estimates, the total comes up to about one hour. If she likes you and enjoys her time with you, she will not mind is you go a little over an hour, particularly if you spent a third of the time pleasing her. In my experience, bad interactions have lasted less than 30 minutes, and good ones, one to 2 hours, but I have agreed to or paid more than for one hour. The girls with whom I had good interactions always came back for more, and were never too concerned about the time.

So, yes, a longer session is better, but it is not a good idea to agree to three hours for a first time session. What if in the first five minutes you realize that there is no chemistry? My bad. Brief experiences have been when I realized there was no chemistry, and I just went ahead with the deed because I had already committed to paying her. On the other hand, if you have good chemistry and a good time, she will not be too concerned with the time.


For some of us, it is for a lot more than pumping our dicks in them for 5. 5 minutes. On Saturday, SA#4 stayed just short of 4 hours. We were kissing off and on for well over 30 minutes of that. I went down on her twice for probably 20 minutes total. She gives a nice blowjob but probably not more than 5 minutes but without me finishing. The actual sex with my dick being in her pussy was probably a total of about 20 minutes over 2 times. The rest of the time was spent cuddling, talking, touching each other, photos, drinking tea, etc.

When it comes to sex, my problem is not finishing too soon, it is being able to finish at all. Without the conversation, foreplay, kissing, touching, kissing her body, and other lead-up activities, then I could fuck until my lungs exploded and still not finish and eventually I would stop from discomfort or boredom. I would be happy if I could finish in 3 minutes sometime, but it rarely, rarely happens. For me sex is in my mind. If I don't have the foreplay triggers, then I am useless and can't finish at all. If you give me the right girl with the right foreplay, she can easily get me to finish 3 times in 3 hours if I want to (but I usually only do 2 and sometimes even 1). And that is the problem with most professionals--they treat sex as a solely physical thing without touching the mental aspects of sex and it does nothing for me. I don't practice Tantric sex as Kozerog does, but I do have my own psychology of sex..

[YummyPL]

So, yes, a longer session is better, but it is not a good idea to agree to three hours for a first time session. What if in the first five minutes you realize that there is no chemistry? My bad. Brief experiences have been when I realized there was no chemistry, and I just went ahead with the deed because I had already committed to paying her. On the other hand, if you have good chemistry and a good time, she will not be too concerned with the time.I understand what you are saying. For the longer meetings I always insist on a meeting beforehand where we just talk over drinks or a light meal. Minimal cost in my mind. Pretty much less expensive than a regular date for sure.

Both my SA#4 and SA#5 basically attacked me with kisses the first time we were BCD, so I actually slowed them down. Maybe I should just call for takeout and take my chances. But so far I am happy with the choices I have made, and I feel very comfortable with how I have been compensating my companions.

[Riina]

For the longer meetings I always insist on a meeting beforehand where we just talk over drinks or a light meal. Minimal cost in my mind. Pretty much less expensive than a regular date for sure.I didn't know prostitutes in Kiev are open to meeting for a snack so you can examine them. Thanks for sharing.

[YummyPL]

I didn't know prostitutes in Kiev are open to meeting for a snack so you can examine them. Thanks for sharing.I've done this with all my SA girls except one (the count is at 12 now). I have not done this with the few Mamba girls. And while in the end, the SA girls are surely prostitutes, the ones I have met are at least partially under the illusion that they are not. They are "regular girls" that appreciate a "little help." It has also weeded out quite a few flakes. If they don't want a pre-meeting, then I generally discard them right away unless they are appropriately communicative online. If we decide to meet and they have trouble with the pre-meeting, then I discard them without regret. At this point there have been 4 that were too flaky and I canceled our pre-meeting. On the other side of that, they also get to examine you.

[Member #4722]

Literally no one here cares about your shitty opinions, delivered in mangled English. Do everyone a favor and go away.

[Member #4722]

Rolling Stone Magazine wrote about the Kiev music scene right before the pandemic. They had a whole article stating how Kiev is the "next Berlin" for music.

[IdiotSavant]

Can I get a link to that article? I'm wondering if they mention any of the venues I'm familiar with.

I'm actually going to be switching over from Ukrainian to learn Russian starting today. I may spend time in Saint Petersburg. Given I can stay in Russia 180 days at a time it's a good option in between 90 day stints in Kiev Lviv and Kharkiv.

Essentially the goal is to either find a super hot 18-21 year old petite girl who wants to get spoiled or run through as many as possible in respect to the Eastern Euro girls.