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Hello everyone.
OK, probably the web site I mentioned yesterday is a fake site. I guess that no one of the woman posting there really exists. Someone manage the pictures and the answers in order to suck your money.
Anyway, I remember that some time ago some fellow monger posted in this board some link of "trusted" japanese date sites where he managed to score after exchanging a certain number of message with real ladies.
I also know another web site, www.aijinfurin.com
Is this OK?
Anyone is so kind to give me the right directions?
I can manage basic japanese to exchange messages (of course these web sites have to be in japanese - by the way here in Japan I tried once a very famous english based dating site but no way) and I`d like to pay a reasonable amount of money to become a member of one of these web sites, but all I need is to be sure that the site is not a fake.
Please help me.
Thanks
I used the www.aijinfurin web service for one year (it requires and annual membership of about 10,000 yen) and had a couple of dates from it, but only because there were not many women on it from Kyushu, where I live. I don't remember getting any spam from using it.
Here's another site that is free and I've had a fair amount of success with--although as with any site, if the ad seems too good to be true, it most likely is:
www.love.squares.net (all in Japanese)
It's quite strict about the rules, though; for example, you can't use numerous expressions that are common in spam or rip-off sites, a man can only respond to a woman's ad once in 8 hours, etc. Your e-mail address is protected, so even if you get a response that seems suspicious, you won't get spam from it unless you respond again using your own e-mail. In other words, you can communicate back and forth several times using the web site's service. Most responses I've received, though, have been from the woman's own e-mail.
Happy hunting.
Hello everyone,
Someone has ever tried to score using some japanese dating site?
I found this one http://pc.ainori-i.org/
Do you think it is worth trying? It is real stuff or it is a complete scam?
Thanks
Typical scam site. Stay away.
Have any of you mongers tried ordering Viagra or Ciallis by mail. I did and t seems the package was stopped at security. The company I ordered from said that many of their packages are being stopped at Narita airport. What is up with that. This is not illegal is it? They said they would try again, but I don't have any more hope. Is there any place where I can get either Viagra or Ciallis cheaply and quickly? Also I don't live in Tokyo, so I can't hit some of the places mentioned before, I'm looking for mail order. Any help would be appreciated.
have any of you mongers tried ordering viagra or ciallis by mail. i did and t seems the package was stopped at security. the company i ordered from said that many of their packages are being stopped at narita airport. what is up with that. this is not illegal is it? they said they would try again, but i don't have any more hope. is there any place where i can get either viagra or ciallis cheaply and quickly? also i don't live in tokyo, so i can't hit some of the places mentioned before, i'm looking for mail order. any help would be appreciated.
i don't understand why people don't get the med from a japanese doc. most **** 50 speak enough english that it should be easy. all the urologists prescribe it here...may be more pricey then by mail, but then again, you will at least know you will get it and it will be 100% pure. and saving a few bucks on pills when you spend a few $$ on the gal is a bit odd.
But first off, I disagree with you that most doctors can speak enough English, maybe in the big cities but not out here in the countryside. Secondly you have to go through the nurse and explain the whole situation, which cannot be done in English. And third it is the time needed to see a doctor. You know what it is like in Japan, go and wait for hours on end. Who has that kind of time in the middle of the day.
Have any of you mongers tried ordering Viagra or Ciallis by mail. I did and t seems the package was stopped at security. The company I ordered from said that many of their packages are being stopped at Narita airport.
Billcan 2,
Japanese law allows for the importation of small amounts of medications from abroad as long as they are for personal use, and the medications themselves are not illegal in Japan.
If you can read Japanese and want to go through a Japanese seller check out http://www.pi-m.com (not inexpensive).
If you are interested in generic versions (from India), http://www.generic-pharmacy.net is much cheaper, and in English.
I want to second Lion's advice, however. Once you've actually gone to the trouble to see a urologist, it becomes much easier to get refills when you run out, and you're getting the name brand drug. And you don't have to worry about packages getting stopped at Customs (or your supplier using that as a convenient excuse....)
Cheers
But first off, I disagree with you that most doctors can speak enough English, maybe in the big cities but not out here in the countryside. Secondly you have to go through the nurse and explain the whole situation, which cannot be done in English. And third it is the time needed to see a doctor. You know what it is like in Japan, go and wait for hours on end. Who has that kind of time in the middle of the day.
Actually, if you go to a small clinic, the waiting times are often very short - and they're also a little freer with the prescription pad.
i don't understand why people don't get the med from a japanese doc. most **** 50 speak enough english that it should be easy. all the urologists prescribe it here...may be more pricey then by mail, but then again, you will at least know you will get it and it will be 100% pure. and saving a few bucks on pills when you spend a few $$ on the gal is a bit odd.
i concur. japanese docs love to prescribe... thats how they make money.
and will never buy products from spammers. never, ever. every time people do that they support this pest of a "business model".
another option is to ask a friend who visits thailand to bring a few. they sell generic products with funny names there in pharmacies. ceagra, vee-tabs, whatever. made in india and genuine. (in thailand, customers would find out in no time if they didn`t work :-)) )
Just a question have any of you tried Japanese doctors? Were you satisfied with the care and treatment you recieved? Do they only have Viagra here in Japan or do they also have the other medicines like Cialis etc. Can I use my national health insurance to pay for te visit and medicine? If so I'll try it. Do you have to visit a urologist, I have an internal medicine doctor who speaks english fairly well, I'd like to try him. I appreciate any adivce you have.
Also Lion I never said the meds were to be used on a paid girl, this is for a girl I picked up and have been seeing for a little while, and want to make sure that everything is up and running when the time comes.
I am pushing the age limit and found I could not do the double pops, etc that I could maybe 5 years ago. When I was in China one of my business associates that lives there suggested a Chinese natural herb that is bottled for the purpose of mens sexual vitality. It is not the quick, "swallow one pill and have a hard on in 15 minutes" type drug. You have to take it for about 4 weeks before it kicks in, but from my field trials it really works and believe me it is on my menu every morning. I have several friends that swear by it now. There is a place you can buy it near Tokyo without a prescription at a regular neighborhood type pharmacy at reasonable cost. Any senior members or members who have PM capability, contact me and I will let you know where to get it.
En~
I am pushing the age limit and found I could not do the double pops, etc that I could maybe 5 years ago. When I was in China one of my business associates that lives there suggested a Chinese natural herb that is bottled for the purpose of mens sexual vitality. It is not the quick, "swallow one pill and have a hard on in 15 minutes" type drug. You have to take it for about 4 weeks before it kicks in, but from my field trials it really works and believe me it is on my menu every morning. I have several friends that swear by it now. There is a place you can buy it near Tokyo without a prescription at a regular neighborhood type pharmacy at reasonable cost. Any senior members or members who have PM capability, contact me and I will let you know where to get it.
En~
This wouldn`t be testicles of a protected species?
"This wouldn`t be testicles of a protected species?"
Nope, a simple combination of plant derivatives, good to have in the system when you need it, especially if you go to the occasional Happening bar ;)
however, one drawback, you cannot turn it off so pretty much horny all the time and need to have steady GF or lots of money.
BTW - I saw a sign advertising Vitamin 'C' at a local pharmacy. So I dropped in to ask the price. It was 8000Y per TABLET!! And not even original stuff, but some Indian generic. The herbals have generally done the trick for me and I've heard good things about Endowed's select choice... hmmm...
Sometimes I hear people are surprised it is possible to check into love hotels alone-in truth single men are a huge part of the business, and it is totally expected that a single guy will be having a visitor arrive later on.
Of course it is not necessary to call a gal every time, and since love hotels have all night rates starting at 7,000yen and allow checkin from 9 or 10pm, they can be a comfortable alternative to the tiny 6,000yen business hotel or the 15,000 room in the Crowne Plaza. This is especially sensible for someone in town for just one night.
Stickmanfob
05-16-07, 04:44
Recently, there has been an increase in Internet cafe “refugees” — men and women on low incomes who have no fixed address, and who spend the night at these 24-hour establishments. The very existence of Internet cafe refugees reveals the growing polarization taking place in Japanese society.
Many are working part-time just to survive. However, some of the women are turning to prostitution for easy money and are using the cafes as their “place of business.”
“I could never have imagined I would get serviced at such a place,” said a man in his 40s who resides in Tokyo. “It got me excited, but at the same time it got me thinking about the hard life that they have.” He was referring to a woman in her early 20s whom he met through a dating service website.
“She asked 10,000 yen for oral sex and I asked her for a discount as a hotel isn’t cheap. Then she said ‘Let’s do it at an Internet cafe.’ So in the end, we met at a cafe in Shinjuku and got a private booth,” he said.
The man was taken by surprise when he learned, during the course of the action, that the woman was basically making a living by performing oral sex in private booths of Internet cafes. “She doesn’t have a steady job or a place to live. She sleeps at Internet cafes and performs oral sex there as her way of making money. She gets online with the computers at the cafe and searches for a guy like me by visiting dating service websites,” he said.
There are over 3,000 Internet cafes throughout the country. And there are increasing numbers of people described as “Internet cafe refugees” who reside in such establishments while surviving off daily employment. It has become a social phenomenon that the Ministry of Health, Labor, and Welfare is looking into at the moment.
In addition to the availability of manga and magazines, the cafes offer computers with Internet access. The going rate for an Internet cafe is 300 to 400 yen per hour and 20 to 30% more for a private booth, which is separated by thin plywood. Booths have a reclining seat.
All you can drink soft drinks are free and snacks and cup noodles are available at an extra charge. With the “Night Pack,” one can sleep there for 1,000 to 3,000 yen per night. There even are some that offer a shower, towel and toothbrush to those who want to clean themselves up.
“I am working as a cashier at a 100 yen shop, but the job isn’t available everyday,” said a 22-year-old woman, who says she became a refugee when she had nowhere else to go after quitting her job at a pachinko parlor that also offered her a place to live in a dorm. “I don’t think I can get out of this lifestyle anytime soon.”
She has a boyfriend, she said, who is also working on a daily basis and sleeps in an Internet cafe. “When we are together, we sleep at a cafe that offers ‘pair seating’ and we have sex there. I am not loud, so nobody notices,” she said.
“I cannot survive on what I get paid from my cashier’s job, so when I am not with my boyfriend, I get online and surf through the dating websites seeking potential customers for prostitution,” she said.
“I met a girl through a telephone dating club who said ‘I will do anything if you could help me with the fee that I owe the Internet cafe,’” said a man in his 30s. “She described herself as a 28-year-old freeter and I met up with her at an Internet cafe in Shibuya. What really surprised me was that the late fee was a mere 3,000 yen. And once I paid the fee, she walked out with me.”
On their way to a hotel, the girl told him that she was hungry when they passed by a convenience store. When he bought her a bento and cup noodles, the girl got happy.
“Her service was just as promised,” he said. “When the time was up, she asked if we could stay at the hotel for the night. I suppose she wanted a comfortable bed at least for one night,” he said.
“Deai Kissa” (meeting cafes) are also a popular destination. At such establishments, men pay an enrollment fee of 5,000 to 10,000 yen and 2,000 yen per visit to take a look at women gathered at the cafe. If a man finds a girl who he is interested in, then the clerk will tell the girl if she wants to meet up with the man. If the matchmaking is successful, then the man pays 3,000 yen to walk out with the girl.
There is not a single fee charged to women. Everything is free at the cafe. And if they go on a date with men, then there is a chance to get an allowance from them.
“I ran away from home two months ago, and I have been living in an Internet cafe ever since,” said an unemployed 20-year-old woman who is a regular at “deai kissa.” “When I am out of money, I come here hoping that some guy will pick me up. I have no problems at all with having sex because I can make around 30,000 yen per night. I don’t like having a day job as I don’t want to be bothered with human relationships. The best part is I can live the way I want, so I am happy with the lifestyle.”
Upon browsing through dating websites, there are posts such as “I will help you masturbate in a private booth in an Internet cafe for 5,000 yen” or “Oral sex for 5,000 yen and body touching for additional 5,000 yen.” It is not hard to imagine that many of these women are Internet cafe refugees.
“Since about 10 years ago, we have seen the emergence of girls who live off prostitution in the metropolitan area,” said a journalist. “These women moved their home base to Internet cafes. However, the market price dropped to 10,000 yen in some extreme cases from the previous 50,000 to 100,000 yen. These girls do not have funds to dress up, so they cannot sell themselves for a higher rate. In fact, many of the girls who sleep at Internet cafes do not regularly take a bath. Unless the widening economic gap in society is reversed, there will likely be more refugee women.” (Translated by Toshiya Fujii)
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Teppenyaki
05-30-07, 07:20
Hello gents,
First of all I want to thank everyone replied to my requests some weeks ago.
I started to intensively check some japanese deai websites and, till now, no success :-(
I will try to improve my approach, and any detailed suggestion for this "deai-nampa" is, by the way, greatly appreciated ;-) - please please please -
Well, coming back on topic, I add my considerations on some deai sites I tried or I am trying at present.
http://www.love.squares.net
Is a real deai web site, as many others certified. The system is a little bit annoying, since you have to click or close a window to increase the web ranking of this site any time you open a page or post a message; indeed, you can send a message only one time every 8 hours. Besides that, it is a safe site that does not gnerate spam at all. You have to use not-free e-amil, but since your address is protected, it is well trying.
Sent messages: about 10; replies: 1 but unfortunately no further replies (I wonder why)
http://dr.to
Another real deai site. Paying 6000Yen you can send a unlimited number of messages; the problem seems that the number of ladies is not so high.
Sent messages: about 20; replies: 0 :-(
http://furin.misty.ne.jp/
I thought it was real, but actually it is masked scam deai.
Three times I received replies including this kind of sentence "my photo is here (suggesting another web site that requires registration and works with point system)". That means this is a big web sites to create big spam traffic linking scam sites.
Not recommended at all; plus, you can send only one e-mail per day!
http://www.aijinfurin.com
It is real, but "japanese only"!!!! I was shocked: I sent my card number and name. When they read my name, they replied my only in english (incredible!) saying "sorry, this deai web site is for japanese only, so we will not charge your credit card, sorry for this"
I am really disappointed because thsi seems the best deai sites of all. Anyone recently had the same bad experience here?
I am wondering now to try some other site like http://www.loves.ne.jp/ or some more "neutral" like http://www.japancupid.com/
or similar. Any hint or comment?
I hope this post is useful and I am waiting, again, for some trick from kind fellows that succeeded using these deai web sites.
Regards,
T.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Hello gents,
http://www.love.squares.net
Is a real deai web site, as many others certified. The system is a little bit annoying, since you have to click or close a window to increase the web ranking of this site any time you open a page or post a message; indeed, you can send a message only one time every 8 hours. Besides that, it is a safe site that does not gnerate spam at all. You have to use not-free e-amil, but since your address is protected, it is well trying.
Sent messages: about 10; replies: 1 but unfortunately no further replies (I wonder why)
http://www.aijinfurin.com
It is real, but "japanese only"!!!! I was shocked: I sent my card number and name. When they read my name, they replied my only in english (incredible!) saying "sorry, this deai web site is for japanese only, so we will not charge your credit card, sorry for this"
I am really disappointed because thsi seems the best deai sites of all. Anyone recently had the same bad experience here?
For the love.squares site, you need to read/write Japanese, but in my fairly extensive exprerience with it (going on 4 years), about half the women I've ended up exhanging mails with could both read and write a fair amount of English--no doubt because I always tell them up front in my first contact that I'm Caucasion. Since March of 2006, I've been living close to Fukuoka City and Kitakyushu City, which have the largest number of women participatants in Kyushu (around 3/4 of all of the total), and my success rate with the site has been as follows: 2 responses to my own 3 ads, one of which I met and passed on, the other of which I just started exchanging mails with last week and whom I plan to meet next week; can't remember how many lady's ads I've responded to, but it hasn't been a huge number since I'm middle-aged and don't respond to any who are under mid-30s--which is a minority, but I've corresponded with 5 of them, met 1 of those just once, two others several times each and had sex with both. Excellent stats for just a little over a year, I think.
As for the aijinfurin site, I'm surprised they rejected you--did you send your name in Romaji or katakana? I was registered with them for a year about 3 years ago and had no trouble doing so with my name in katakana, even though it clearly shows I'm a foreigner. I payed by bank deposit, however, not credit card, so that could make a difference. I had correspondence with only 2-3 from that site simply because there were very, very few women in Kyushu registered. I did meet and date one of them several times, though.
http://furin.misty.ne.jp/
I thought it was real, but actually it is masked scam deai.
Three times I received replies including this kind of sentence "my photo is here (suggesting another web site that requires registration and works with point system)". That means this is a big web sites to create big spam traffic linking scam sites.
Not true! This is not a scam site; it is simply a free site that is used by scammers (as they all are).
You can identify the scam message pretty easily. Any message that comes with a photo and/or an invitation to see profile on another website is bound to be a scam.
Genuine messages will typically be addressed to you, and start with something like "Can you speak Japanese?".
The scammers simply use the site; I have no reason to believe that they actually run it.
Not true! This is not a scam site; it is simply a free site that is used by scammers (as they all are).
You can identify the scam message pretty easily. Any message that comes with a photo and/or an invitation to see profile on another website is bound to be a scam.
Genuine messages will typically be addressed to you, and start with something like "Can you speak Japanese?".
The scammers simply use the site; I have no reason to believe that they actually run it.
I agree with Nino. I used this site for a year or so and did actually meet one real woman through it and corresponded with 1 or 2 others but finally gave up as my e-mail account was being bombarded with spammers and scammers I had responded to on the site. It seemed to me the preponderance of the messages were frauds.
Azure Knight
06-08-07, 17:33
Hey Inakajin (or anyone else in the know) - a question about delivery health.
On the phone, do you let the guys know up front that you're a foreigner? If the girl arrives and is surprised to see that you're not Japanese, are things still okay?
I haven't used DH yet, but I want to give it a try.
Hey Inakajin (or anyone else in the know) - a question about delivery health.
On the phone, do you let the guys know up front that you're a foreigner? If the girl arrives and is surprised to see that you're not Japanese, are things still okay?
I haven't used DH yet, but I want to give it a try.
Well, I wouldn't do and never have done that; if you do, you will certainly limit your chances. I think you mentioned in your report on Tobita (which was excellent, BTW) that you're fluent in Japanese. If so, most gate keepers who answer the phones @ DH will never guess you're a foreigner as long as you keep the speaking to a minimum. In my hundred or more calls to DH, I've only been flat out rejected a handfull of times and been asked my nationality or personal particulars a few others, then allowed in.
In my experience, even if the dispatcher who answered the phone knew or suspected I was not Japanese, there've been very few cases in which the woman knew before she arrived. In almost every case, their reaction ranged from mild curiousity to mild surprise to shock, but less than 10% of them reacted somewhat negatively. The worst was a 20-something who just knew at first glance that I would be so big down there as to tear her apart, so she called the agency back and begged for them to send another woman because I was a gaijin and all gaijin are huge down below, etc. There were no other companions availabe at that time, though, so clearly the dispatcher told her to just go with it and do her job. I'm Caucasion, though, and since you are Black, there may be a few more who will react negatively. Even if they do, though, and you avoid DH that clearly state no foreigners, or no non-Japanese citizens, the dispatcher will most likely send another more accomodating date or persuade the one in front of you to do her job.
One thing to remember about Japanese language, too, is that there are multitudes of dialects in this country, and some of them are totally foreign to people who speak others. For example, my wife's from Tokyo but can barely understand people from either Tohoku or Kagoshima. Thus, a foreigner's idiolect in the language might easily be interpreted by the DH dispatcher on the phone as a dialect he/she's not familiar with from some distant prefecture. I've been told by a few DH ladies that the dispatcher told them that I might not be Japanese because of my manner of speaking.
Good luck.
James Midason
06-10-07, 06:12
Hey Inakajin (or anyone else in the know) - a question about delivery health.
On the phone, do you let the guys know up front that you're a foreigner? If the girl arrives and is surprised to see that you're not Japanese, are things still okay?
I haven't used DH yet, but I want to give it a try.I have used DH only once or twice. I speak Japanese and can usually pass for Japanese on the phone (I'm white) but rather than risk a potential problem, I mention up-front if they accept foreigners. First time I called six places before one suggested one place which did. I was friendly and even had a nice chat with a few of the guys, they just explained it was policy not to send girls out to gaijin. Anyway, when I did finally find one, the girls (we got two, me and a buddy) where japanese and not bad. The second time I tried, I told them I was a foreigner from TV, famous so I could not tell them who I was. Would this still be OK. The second place I called said they would check with the girls and sure enough, they called back and She came over. So maybe that is the angle to try. A famous gaijin here for "promotion", once the girl get there just say "You don't recognize me? ".
Just my small bit-o-advise.
JM
Hey Inakajin (or anyone else in the know) - a question about delivery health.
On the phone, do you let the guys know up front that you're a foreigner? If the girl arrives and is surprised to see that you're not Japanese, are things still okay?
I haven't used DH yet, but I want to give it a try.
At first i called around as a survey and said I was a white American, and I had 3 say no before one said OK, depending on the time and girl.
When I actually called for a date the first time, I was stood up-they get saying she was coming but after an hour I gave up.
But since then I have improved my take-out Japanese vocab and seem to pass pretty readily. None of the girls I have seen knew I was not Japanese apparently, but it may be the dispatcher had his suspicions...who knows? They all want to get paid of course, and I am a better catch than at least half of the typical oyaji/otaku clients I bet.
My advice is to keep the Japanese to a minimum on the phone, dress nicely and try not to look too big and scary...have a mickeymouse pin or something funny like that. Another idea is to offer then a chocolate as soon as possible...(nothing to do with your race of course, I am referring to the Nampa technique used so often by the masters in Tokyo).
Best of luck.
Hello everyone,
I am right now in the process of planning my first ever visit to Japan and I am also currently considering a 1 year contract in Japan. As of yet, I don't know where in Japan, on the application they asked if I had any preferences. Not knowing anything about Japan (yet), I put no preferences. Can anyone of the experts give me a quick summary of each major regions/cities in Japan and if they're a good place to live, to have fun with the women (pro and non-pro) and all please? Which areas/cities are best and which are to avoid? I speak no Japanese at all, but I am willing to enroll in a Japanese course so that by the time I get there I will at least have some very basic notions of it.
How is safety in Japan? Is it an issue or a non-issue as I have heard and read elsewhere?
While reading the other thread in here (nampa) which is tremendously informative (thanks guys for all the infos there!!), I read that one of the reasons Japanese women are interested in foreign men is mainly to escape from Japan. I was surprised to read that. One would expect that from women in poor countries, not Japan. Can anyone shed some lights into why the Japanese women would like to "escape" from Japan?
And in general, how receptive are Japanese women to foreign White European men?
Any other tips would be truly appreciated.
Thanks.:)
Hello,, everyone,
I am right now in the process of planning my first ever visit to Japan and I am also currently considering a 1 year contract in Japan. As of yet, I don't know where in Japan, on the application they asked if I had any preferences. Not knowing anything about Japan (yet), I put no preferences. Can anyone of the experts give me a quick summary of each major regions/cities in Japan and if they're a good place to live, to have fun with the women (pro and non-pro) and all please? Which areas/cities are best and which are to avoid? Can't really comment on a whole lot of the other major cities besides Tokyo & Yokohama. Really, almost one big area kind of like the Tri-State in NE USA. One city kind of blends into the other, both are close enough that it is a 30 minute train ride Yokohama-Chukagai to Shibuya.
Look at the posts count in each region to determine the amount of activity. Tokyo pretty much dominates, followed by Yokohama. Osaka also active, but I have little exp. There so cannot comment.
P4P anywhere in Japan will always be restricted as you do not appear to be asian. For someone with relatively liitle language and without the benefit of a local to grease the doors open Tokyo probably your best bet.
Cost of living in Tokyo is very high. Take whatever you plan to budget for housing and food and triple it. Like any big city, the more central you are, the more expensive.
Yokohama somewhat less expensive, but again you are a train ride away from Tokyo or Kawasaki playgrounds.
. I speak no Japanese at all, but I am willing to enroll in a Japanese course so that by the time I get there I will at least have some very basic notions of it. Some Japanese language will obviously help your cause. The more the better. Best bet is to hook up with a local girl for language exchange. Usually means bedroom talk. You will learn more Japanes faster and with a local accent as well. Just be careful of the "femenine" verbal cues you will pick up. It's always easy to spot a foreigner who learned to speak from his wife/girlfriend. They sound a little femenine.
Sometimes if cruising an obvious expat area however it is best to pocket any language skills and let some kind hearted beauty "help" you out. I'm completely fluent and I still get offers of help at train stations when I am searching the map for best route.
. How is safety in Japan? Is it an issue or a non-issue as I have heard and read elsewhere? Safety is not a problem in JPN. The only place I have ever felt the least bit spooked was Kabuki-cho in Shinjuku. There are a lot of wanna be gangsters that work the streets in the area. As they are very noticable, it is easy enough to avoid.
Also in that area a lot of East Euro or African touts that will try to hustle you into a crap establishment for a "massage from a beautiful lady" that turns out to be a $150 crappy rub and tug from a pimple-faced Chinese masaji girl that is about a.27 on a scale of 1-10. NOTE: AVOID THE TOUTS!
A lot of people get uptight over the Yak's, but they don't want a confrontation any more than you do. Any problem that might attract unwanted attention is avoided by those guys unless you go out of your way to get in their face.
. While reading the other thread in here (nampa) which is tremendously informative (thanks guys for all the infos there! ), I read that one of the reasons Japanese women are interested in foreign men is mainly to escape from Japan. I was surprised to read that. One would expect that from women in poor countries, not Japan. Can anyone shed some lights into why the Japanese women would like to "escape" from Japan? I wouldn't call it "escape" so much as enjoy a little cultural freedom. Japanese women outside of Japan a super-freaks. Some of the best lays I ever had were 19 and 20 yo FOB's in the states that were taking ESL at the local University. Once outside the cultural expectations of Japan, they are able to let their hair down and enjoy themsleves. First time away from home syndrome.
In Japan, there are a couple of different reasons. Most notably the novelty of being with a foreigner. Also there is the perception that foreigners are more courteous to women. Then there is the "size" perception. Some Japanese women just like the thought of being stretched out by a big foreign see*ck.
Obviously these are all stereotypes and as such aren't always the case. But, hey as someone who benefits from most of these stereotypes all I can do is try to live up to them.
. And in general, how receptive are Japanese women to foreign White European men? Well, as a group foreigners always face some discrimination in Japan. However, probably the group of foreigners that faces the least problems are Caucasians. Aussies, American, Canadians, Europeans doesn't really matter.
Almost all Japanese will ask if you are American before ever listening to linguistic cues. Relax, you will have a blast.
As for the women themselves, you will begin to recognize "types" of girls. Whether it is the really tanned dreadlock wearing wanna-be-black group, or the tanned Shibuya hottie with hair extensions and strapless high-heeled f*ck me pumps, or the Roppongi good time girls that just wnat to be with a foreigner. Of course I am stereotyping as well, and I apologise if I have offended anyone.
Oh. And having lived in the countryside, I can say if you do get posted outside of a metropolitan area it is not bad either. Your P4P options will be limited, but you will quickly become a local celebrity on the area. I lived in Ibaraki-ken for a few years and hardly a day went by when a young lady didn't approach and say "Hello,," just dying to practice what little English she knew. If she was with friends, she usually got all red faced and ran away as soon as I reponded. But there were the cases where they were alone, and I'd invite for coffee or ocha and within a few hours it was off to the local love hotel. Best to work the helpless language challenged scheme and make it a language exchange situation.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I certainly hope that the author or somebody else will post a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
AussieGaigin
06-14-07, 11:17
I would have to agree with MAtsu69's comments 100%.
Although I've never actually lived in Japan, I have visited several times and travelled extensively, and enjoyed nampa experience in many places. Why P2P when you can F4F??
Notwithstanding sexual activities, going to places other than Tokyo is experiencing the REAL Japan. Tokyo is just too contrived and "pseudo international" to be real anymore, perhaps Osaka is not far behind either. If you are going to be there for 12 months you might as well get into the cultural "groove". AS long as you have an understanding of, and respect for, Japanese customs, and can learn a few basic J phrases to throw into your English conversation, you will be welcome wherever you go.
Any of the bigger regional cities should be a great experience for you.
Thanks a lot guys for all the great responses. Very much appreciated!:)
More questions will come as my trip nears!:)
Cuty Suzuki
06-15-07, 14:34
how is safety in japan? is it an issue or a non-issue as i have heard and read elsewhere?
any other tips would be truly appreciated.
thanks.:)it is a non-issue to me. i have two experiences in the so-called "dangerous" kabukicho that show the safety and honesty that i have encountered. both relate to this hobby.
one time i went to pinky nozoki for the show and bj. when i returned to shinjuku station after lunch, i couldn't find my train pass. then i remembered it was in my coat pocket. i had left my coat hanging in the peep show booth. i went back to pinky and the man at the desk gave me back my coat. it still had my train pass and about 1 man yen in the pocket.
i was led to a shady looking place by a chinese lady tout. when it was time for my shower, the girl gave me a plastic zippered purse to put my money and wallet in that i could take with me to the shower with no worries of anyone going through my belongings while i was out of the room. although when i came back, the girl saw my money clip and tried to upsell 1 man yen for fs.
One more question: what is a hostess club girl? Is that a strip club type of place/girl?
One more question: what is a hostess club girl? Is that a strip club type of place/girl?Sprite13 - Japan P4P has a language all its own and a number of variations that can be pretty confusing. There is a something called the Tokyo Pink Guide which has a dictionary of Japanese P4P terms and recommendations by locations or by type of establishment. Warning, recommendation list is a little bit dated.
Don't want to break any foum rules by posting the website addy. Google the term and go to the site.
Thanks Matsu for the tip, I'll do a search on it.
I have one question to the experts:
Part of my preparation for my trip is to make some friends in Japan, preferably females ;) through pen pal websites to help me with Japanese culture and learn the language. So far I received a few replies and I even received one unsollicited reply/help from "Yoshio" and their message is truly leaving me a bit confused:
"Nice to meet you Sprite! Why don't you meet up in coffee shop or library and exchange our cultures and languages? I'll be happy if I can get a massage from you.
All the best
Yoshio "
First question to the experts:
Yoshio, is that a guy or a girl's name? This is of crucial importance to me for obvious reasons as you can easily imagine...
Second question: is it common from Japanese people to be that up front in their emails?
And if yes, what/how would be the most appropriate way to answer to that kind of email from a Japanese?
A big thank you in advance to all for their help/insight into the Japanese mentality.
Cheers.
Azure Knight
06-18-07, 01:09
Sprite13,
Honestly, they probably just misspelled "message".
And Yoshio is probably a dude.
--snip---
"Nice to meet you Sprite! Why don't you meet up in coffee shop or library and exchange our cultures and languages? I'll be happy if I can get a massage from you.
All the best
Yoshio "
First question to the experts:
Yoshio, is that a guy or a girl's name? This is of crucial importance to me for obvious reasons as you can easily imagine...
Second question: is it common from Japanese people to be that up front in their emails?
--snip---
LOL! Sorry to burst your bubble, but Yoshio is a guy, and "massage" is supposed to be "message".
Welcome to Japan! You`ll have fun anyway, but don`t count on Yoshio :-)
Lovesnihon
06-18-07, 14:10
Hey people, any info on if there are gaijin friendly video boxes in Kobe ?
Thanks LN
Azure Knight
07-09-07, 09:39
For all you married/committed mongers out there, Docomo's got a great new service called 2in1. With just one phone you can have two phone numbers and email addresses. Everything that goes on in B mode never shows up in A mode and vice versa - no emails, no record of phone calls, etc. It's like Docomo designed this function specifically for the guy who likes to play around.
For all you married/committed mongers out there, Docomo's got a great new service called 2in1. With just one phone you can have two phone numbers and email addresses. Everything that goes on in B mode never shows up in A mode and vice versa - no emails, no record of phone calls, etc. It's like Docomo designed this function specifically for the guy who likes to play around.
Actually, I believe all newer cell phones have a lock function in which the phone automatically locks w/i seconds after use or immediately when closed. Thus, no one can view anything in your phone unless they know your password. I have an au phone and have been using this function for several months. Works great.
Azure Knight
07-10-07, 08:20
The lock function is pretty good for protecting your overall privacy. I really like the 2in1 function though because it just keeps everything totally hidden. You can leave your phone unlocked, or even show it to the missus, and she won't find anything. Gives her greater piece of mind than knowing your phone is locked.
Of course, I always make it a point to be fussy about my phone anyway. Do the whole "why do you need to see it? Why don't you trust me?" thing, and then after a while, reluctantly let her see the phone. She checks it out, finds nothing, and then feels guilty for having doubted me.
The other big benefit of 2in1 for me is that if my phone is in A mode and a mail gets sent to B mode, it doesn't ring. The B mail doesn't show up at all unless I actually switch to B mode. I used to get random mails, and she'd notice and then wonder who it was or why I wasn't bothering to respond to it in front of her.
An interesting watch (1hr 15 mins) for anyone interested in the mizu shobai:
The Great Happiness Space Documentary 2006 (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6186147595582048109) (Google Video, Japanese with Eng. subtitles).
NicFrenchy
08-15-07, 15:59
Looks like this website offers Pregnant and Lactating Escorts?
Weird concept. Are a lot of people into this?
http://roots-b.kir.jp/companion/
I have been getting PMs for contact info and invitations to hang out. I am a loner as every time I have went women chasing with friends the results have been less then desirable. Some guys want to get drunk and act an ass. I don’t drink alcohol and then you have the dating critic. The guy who thinks either you are too nice to or too mean to women and goes to tell you how you should behave.
Also being young, black and of the hip hop culture be aware that you will draw attention in Japan just by walking around alone so being in a cluster in my opinion is not that wise.
I have chased women from California to Dubai to Taskent, Uzbekistan and the alone tactic always worked for me. You don’t need help to chase women in Japan. Dress presentable and you can do this whether you are of the hip hop culture or the tiger woods culture. Go where people that have you similar interest hang out and you will have no problem finding Japanese or any other girls in Japan. To all take it sleazy.
Happy Hunting
Every now and then I feel my civic duty to hobbyists to extol the virtues and vices of Okinawa. If you guys on the mainland ever feel like a tropical holiday that combines beaches, fishing, diving, good food, and P4P, you will not do better anywhere than Japan's southernmost prefecture.
Okinawan women are IMHO the most beautiful in Japan, and therefore in the entire known universe. Rounder bodies, big eyes, better teeth and no bowlegs, and lovely regular features. (Look up Miss Universe 2005, from Okinawa). And very friendly. English skills are poor but love finds a way.... Due to a scarcity of good jobs, an amazing number of the goodlooking ones find their way into the water trade, through delivery, soaplands, and even the 2 interesting RLDs where you can choose your favorite for a straightforward 15 minutes BJ/FS.
Live music and karaoke abound. Tourism is the main industry here so it's all within reach. I am told that the possibilities for nampa are excellent, although I am a little too old for that and have never succeeded. Lots of young'uns out on the town and curious.... Very gaijin-friendly, maybe moreso than anywhere else in Nihon. Due to the everlasting presence of US bases, the ladies all know what to expect from gaijins, and will let you know if you are not welcome in a nice way.
It will cost a bit to fly down here, but there are reasonable hotels and the cost of most essentials is less than on the mainland. And the non-essentials too. An hour at a soapland runs from 12-15K, derihesu is 10-12K per hour, and a quickie in the RLD is 5K. I lost count of the love hotels. Charter fishing will run you $100, scuba shops are many, and the beaches are free. Don't plan on surfing though.
When to come here? The weather is warm all year except for January-February, but the catch is that it isn't always sunny. This summer has been much rainier than usual, and typhoon season still is ahead. But since there's always something FUN to do on a rainy day, what's the problem?
Osakadrone
08-25-07, 13:07
I saw an earlier post saying it was easy to get Viagra in Japan. Anyone know of a place in Osaka to get Cialis/Levitra? Without a prescription, I mean. I don't have enough Japanese to handle a doctor's visit and I think hand gestures would be embarrassing for all involved.
Hey B,
Not looking to hang out. I too, enjoy going solo.
I would however, like to get a couple of names and locations of Hip Hop clubs. I'll be passing through JP in a couple of weeks.
Thanks for the help,
House
I have been getting PMs for contact info and invitations to hang out. I am a loner as every time I have went women chasing with friends the results have been less then desirable. Some guys want to get drunk and act an ass. I don’t drink alcohol and then you have the dating critic. The guy who thinks either you are too nice to or too mean to women and goes to tell you how you should behave.
Also being young, black and of the hip hop culture be aware that you will draw attention in Japan just by walking around alone so being in a cluster in my opinion is not that wise.
I have chased women from California to Dubai to Taskent, Uzbekistan and the alone tactic always worked for me. You don’t need help to chase women in Japan. Dress presentable and you can do this whether you are of the hip hop culture or the tiger woods culture. Go where people that have you similar interest hang out and you will have no problem finding Japanese or any other girls in Japan. To all take it sleazy.
Happy Hunting
Member #4770
08-29-07, 02:33
Hey B,
Not looking to hang out. I too, enjoy going solo.
I would however, like to get a couple of names and locations of Hip Hop clubs. I'll be passing through JP in a couple of weeks.
Thanks for the help,
HouseYou should buy the travel guide book called "Time Out Tokyo"; it has a ton of listings for clubs, hip hop and otherwise.
I saw an earlier post saying it was easy to get Viagra in Japan. Anyone know of a place in Osaka to get Cialis/Levitra? Without a prescription, I mean. I don't have enough Japanese to handle a doctor's visit and I think hand gestures would be embarrassing for all involved.
Osakadrone... not sure about getting V without a prescription in Osaka, but maybe this will help you: I found it easy to find an English speaking doctor to prescribe viagra in Tokyo.. there is an English help line there... I bet you could find a similar English help line (telephone) in Osaka and they will refer you to an English speaking doctor... you can call ahead to assure yourself they will prescribe viagra. I had no problem doing this in Tokyo.
Good evening all,
I am a first time poster, but a long time reader. I've been around here since Seiki 21 and the glory days of Hinodecho (now, interestingly undergoing a Venetian-style remodelling, replete with faux-brick jetties - Hinodecho, that is, not Centre Gai's 21)
Anyway, I went to the Japan Porno Trade Show (calling itself Adult Treasure Expo '07), and I just managed to get my trip report printed.
If you're interested in having a look, please click over to http://www.seekjapan.jp/article/1248/The+Japan+Porn+Trade+Show
Happy reading and i look forward to any feedback from other mongers who were also lucky enough to attend,
JF
Hi,
I have a question. I have been living in Osaka for a few years. I have met many Japanese girls and went to dinner with them many times. However, the problem is that there was no action at the end. We always end up to be friends with some culture exchange and no more. Could you please give me some advice on taking the girls to bed?
Tokyo Dude
09-06-07, 14:27
After about 4 years of experience, my advice to you is when you are joking around with the girl on your date and they start hitting and punching you you are in.
It might sound weird but this is very common body language between people who feel comfortable with each other in Japan.
Make the first move and you will not be rejected.
Hi,
I have a question. I have been living in Osaka for a few years. I have met many Japanese girls and went to dinner with them many times. However, the problem is that there was no action at the end. We always end up to be friends with some culture exchange and no more. Could you please give me some advice on taking the girls to bed?
Have you tried meeting them again? The rule of the thumb seems to be you get lucky the third time. Straight to the love hotel on the first time will only work with sluts, or if it is really late and they are drunk. Question of face and all that.
Hi,
I have a question. I have been living in Osaka for a few years. I have met many Japanese girls and went to dinner with them many times. However, the problem is that there was no action at the end. We always end up to be friends with some culture exchange and no more. Could you please give me some advice on taking the girls to bed?You definately have to start touching pretty early on. Not groping or kissing, but if she says something funny touch her arm. During dinner or at the bar, try and sit next to her and that way you can start touching her leg. Just ramp it up from there. If you have escalated the physical contact up to that point, then take them to karaoke, sing a few songs, and make a strong move. Half the time you'll probably be able to lay them right there in the karaoke. The other half, take them home or to the nearest love hotel.
South by SW 2
09-17-07, 01:17
I'm going to be in Tokyo for two weeks in early Nov. In addition to doing some nampa and P4P, I was thinking of a side trip to Thailand or other SE Asian destination. What's the best way to book that trip? I'm not getting any flights on travelocity or expedia from NRT.
I've done some casual mongering in Singapore, Seoul and Tokyo, but not Thailand, Vietnam or Cambodia though I follow the boards. So any other recommendations would be appreciated. I can receive PMs.
Thanks
I'm going to be in Tokyo for two weeks in early Nov. In addition to doing some nampa and P4P, I was thinking of a side trip to Thailand or other SE Asian destination. What's the best way to book that trip? I'm not getting any flights on travelocity or expedia from NRT.
I've done some casual mongering in Singapore, Seoul and Tokyo, but not Thailand, Vietnam or Cambodia though I follow the boards. So any other recommendations would be appreciated. I can receive PMs.
Thanks
In Thailand you`ll find that the P4P scene is huge and cheap, compared to Japan, while nampa is much more difficult, mainly because respectable girls will be much more reluctant to be seen with you -- partly because the gigantic P4P scene.
But there are volumes written about that topic, and I think the Japan board is probably not the right place.
Greetings everyone.
I maybe be in Japan . And I would like to ask some question:
Where's the best city or place to find and fuck tasty Japanese pussies??
Are Japanese girls (pro's or non pros) hard to pick up??? Are they liberal or conservatives??? I would like to try Asian girls like the ones in porn movies.
Is Japan a good place to monger specially if you are a foreigner?? Can I enjoy some pussies there??
How can I enjoy some quality Asian pussy there?? Should I hire Escorts?? or by going Massage parlors???
My specs are: 6.1 fts, Mexican, mediterranean look; white skinned, dark eyes and black hair, neither fat or skinny.
It is true that only Japanese men are allowed to enjoy the best women in Japan??
Greetings everyone.
I maybe be in Japan . And I would like to ask some question:
Where's the best city or place to find and fuck tasty Japanese pussies??
Are Japanese girls (pro's or non pros) hard to pick up??? Are they liberal or conservatives??? I would like to try Asian girls like the ones in porn movies.
Is Japan a good place to monger specially if you are a foreigner?? Can I enjoy some pussies there??
How can I enjoy some quality Asian pussy there?? Should I hire Escorts?? or by going Massage parlors???
My specs are: 6.1 fts, Mexican, mediterranean look; white skinned, dark eyes and black hair, neither fat or skinny.
It is true that only Japanese men are allowed to enjoy the best women in Japan??
This is a joke, no?
Please read the previous posts in the Japan thread, and you will find the answers to 99% of your questions.
And then come back and ask precise questions about the remaining 1% (and besides telling us that you are tall, but otherwise average looking mediterranean origin - tell us, how well you speak Japanese and if you are willing to pay high prices for high class mongering).
Asian Phetish
09-23-07, 06:09
Are Japanese girls (pro's or non pros) hard to pick up??? .....You must be kidding right? If you have trouble picking up Pro's then your are in trouble mate.
This is a joke, no?
tell us, how well you speak Japanese and if you are willing to pay high prices for high class mongering).
This time you are the one joking dude.
Of course I'm willing to pay high prices for high mongering (in exchange of quality Asian pussy) otherwise I wouldn't ask.
You must be kidding right? If you have trouble picking up Pro's then your are in trouble mate.
I mean non pro's .... my mistake
Erm, I'm not sure if this is a completely wrong headed idea or not, and hence I am posting here to get some feedback.
With all the gaijin girls who are suddenly out of work from Nova (or as a knock-on affect of that), and in many cases been kicked out of accommodation, and either struggling to stay or struggling to leave, might now be a good time to be offering gaijin girls some erm "part-time casual piece work" LOL?
I mean, whilst a large portion of them are stroppy dumpy slags who I'm not at all interested in, there are a decent number of fairly cute early 20's gaijin girls around, and it's been years since I had sex with a non-Asian woman so it'd make a nice change.
I was thinking to go to some teacher job website and post a fake job then go from there.
Furthermore, if I did do this and did find some compliant girls would there be guys on here who would want contact with them?
The Special One
11-01-07, 15:36
Erm, I'm not sure if this is a completely wrong headed idea or not, and hence I am posting here to get some feedback.
With all the gaijin girls who are suddenly out of work from Nova (or as a knock-on affect of that), and in many cases been kicked out of accommodation, and either struggling to stay or struggling to leave, might now be a good time to be offering gaijin girls some erm "part-time casual piece work" LOL?
I mean, whilst a large portion of them are stroppy dumpy slags who I'm not at all interested in, there are a decent number of fairly cute early 20's gaijin girls around, and it's been years since I had sex with a non-Asian woman so it'd make a nice change.
I was thinking to go to some teacher job website and post a fake job then go from there.
Furthermore, if I did do this and did find some compliant girls would there be guys on here who would want contact with them? I think you are sad and f*cked up for even suggesting it. What you are proposing is no better than the guys who lure girls into hostessing jobs and then traffick them for sex.
Erm, I'm not sure if this is a completely wrong headed idea or not, and hence I am posting here to get some feedback.
With all the gaijin girls who are suddenly out of work from Nova (or as a knock-on affect of that), and in many cases been kicked out of accommodation, and either struggling to stay or struggling to leave, might now be a good time to be offering gaijin girls some erm "part-time casual piece work" LOL?
I mean, whilst a large portion of them are stroppy dumpy slags who I'm not at all interested in, there are a decent number of fairly cute early 20's gaijin girls around, and it's been years since I had sex with a non-Asian woman so it'd make a nice change.
I was thinking to go to some teacher job website and post a fake job then go from there.
Furthermore, if I did do this and did find some compliant girls would there be guys on here who would want contact with them?
Ummmm Daaaaa! to your last question but under any situation you offer me sex with a cute 20 - 30`s lady I would say HELL YEAAAAAAA!!!.
2 points I would not post a fake add, because many have not been paid back wages and would be really pissed to find out your true intentions.
And I think most if not all of the Nova teachers are sponsered by the company to be here so may be flying home fairly soon.
I think I know which head is leading these question (Could be a good scheme) but doomed to fail maybe.
But would be interested in your results if you decide to do it.
Topos
I think you are sad and f*cked up for even suggesting it. What you are proposing is no better than the guys who lure girls into hostessing jobs and then traffick them for sex.So for giving them the option of actually earning money rather than "working for food" I am sad?
Let's be clear, I wouldn't lie to them beyond what is needed to make the initial contact.
If you are that anti-exploitation then what are you doing on a prostitution forum?
The Special One
11-03-07, 07:20
So for giving them the option of actually earning money rather than "working for food" I am sad?
Let's be clear, I wouldn't lie to them beyond what is needed to make the initial contact.
If you are that anti-exploitation then what are you doing on a prostitution forum? Prostitution, good. Pandering, bad.
Lying to them at any stage makes you the equivalent of a pimp.
Erm, I'm not sure if this is a completely wrong headed idea or not, and hence I am posting here to get some feedback.
WRONG-HEADED IDEA.
Really Now
11-06-07, 08:20
SEATTLEAL posted a worthy report in the Tokyo section, but since it applies to mongering anywhere in Japan, I'm throwing my 2 cents in here.
SEATTLEAL wrote:
"...it has gotten even harder to use credit cards in Japan than before due to all the ID theft software they are now using. Take out small amounts at ATMs from different CC companies at a time (there's only about 4 of them left anymore), and pay cash at the establishments."
I had the same experience here at a Soapland in Chiba City. After having to call it quits that day, I called the credit card number on the back of the card, and explained that I needed to use the card in Japan and to please allow transactions from here. The customer service guy pressed a button and since then I've had no red flags or rejections on the card.
Of course, the best policy is to make sure you've got cash, but in my case, I authorized to have the security ban lifted. So, moral of the story, use cash, or forgo the security feature, since the latter is a viable option.
Happy mongering!
Two by Four
11-06-07, 12:37
Dude ...if you want to buy sex from a white woman go mongering in the US or Russia, eastern Europe, etc; rather than lying to young women who are in a vulnerable position.
2X4
Erm, I'm not sure if this is a completely wrong headed idea or not, and hence I am posting here to get some feedback.
Azure Knight
11-07-07, 06:18
Sorta off-topic, but does anyone here know of any quick ways a foreign male monger can make some quick cash in Japan? My favorite places are waiting for me.
The Special One
11-07-07, 08:25
Sorta off-topic, but does anyone here know of any quick ways a foreign male monger can make some quick cash in Japan? My favorite places are waiting for me.Um, get a job?
Asian Travels
11-27-07, 02:42
At Jackson's suggestion I looked into the ignore list. It appears to work quite well. Anyone who posts more than 10 times without producing any useful info I plan to put on it. Others who always post nice picts like BigJP, Topos and James Midason are my "buddies".
1.At top of page find the User CP link.
2.On left side menu at bottom you'll find buddy/ignore list.
3.Type in the ignore person and bingo, you are freed from wasted space.
Thanks. I put him in there and it works well. What do "buddies" do?
At Jackson's suggestion I looked into the ignore list. It appears to work quite well. Anyone who posts more than 10 times without producing any useful info I plan to put on it. Others who always post nice picts like BigJP, Topos and James Midason are my "buddies".
1.At top of page find the User CP link.
2.On left side menu at bottom you'll find buddy/ignore list.
3.Type in the ignore person and bingo, you are freed from wasted space.
Asian Travels
11-27-07, 04:19
Thanks. I put him in there and it works well. What do "buddies" do?
I thought it would highlite the posts, but I just found out it is actually really for PM, so it isn't quite as useful.
>The buddy list is used to keep track of the friends you have made on this forum. By going to your "My vB Home", you'll be able to see which of your friends are currently online, and be able to send them a private message. Adding people to your buddy list also allow you to send private messages to multiple forum members at the same time. You may add any member of the forums to your buddy list by clicking this button in a member's posts.
Ignore lists are used for those people who's messages you wish not to read. By adding someone to your ignore list, those messages posted by these individuals will be hidden when you read a thread.
Thanks. What do "buddies" do?
Until you learn the fucken secret hand shake, I`m not telling you.
Topos
I am enjoying using the ignore feature, however there is still a problem with all the other members quoting the "ignored" member and stuffing up the forum.
I suggest anytime there are a series of posts from someone who is not offering any information in return, you add them to the ignore list and DO NOT respond in any way.
Sure, I would like to call someone an idiot (and probably have in the past), but that just clogs the board, so I am switching to the "silent approach". Hopefully most of you can hold your tongues as well. At the end of the day we'll all be better off.
Newbies should RTFF, come to Japan, and then post at least one experience BEFORE asking a dozen questions. There is so much info in the Japan section now anyone should be able to get laid. If you are really clueless and want individual attention, pay for the membership and try PMing someone with 50+ posts-chances are they will respond, at least at first.
Of course experienced mongers with a proven track record in any other forum are welcome to ask all the Japan-related questions they want, though chances are those guys will do it with PM to avoid clogging the board.
AussieGaigin
12-04-07, 10:20
Sorta off-topic, but does anyone here know of any quick ways a foreign male monger can make some quick cash in Japan? My favorite places are waiting for me.
If you have your own accommodation, have you considered offering "english conversation" lessons during the day. Advertise at some of the local shops, you might be able to get some bored housewives interested. As well as some cash flow you might end up with a regular MILF into the bargain.
I am in Tokyo soon and in preparation I like make some pre-contacts via some online chats.
What is a good chat service to chat up girls in Japan, preferably in English?
(in China I use QQ, which works perfectly as a dating tool. Since sex in China is often free, and even if not, very affordable (HJ can be as low as US$5.00) I am a bit reluctant by the sky high JP prices.)
I found this really cool TV show supposedly filmed in japan. Does anyone have any more information on it, or if there are more videos like this one?
There is the link to the video that I'm talking about:
http://www.youporn.com/watch/50403
I found this really cool TV show supposedly filmed in japan. Does anyone have any more information on it, or if there are more videos like this one?
There is the link to the video that I'm talking about:
http://www.youporn.com/watch/50403
SOD = Soft on Demand
It's not a TV show, it's a japanese porn DVD publisher.
http://www.sod.co.jp/top.html
I found this really cool TV show supposedly filmed in japan. Does anyone have any more information on it, or if there are more videos like this one?
There is the link to the video that I'm talking about:
http://www.youporn.com/watch/50403
Don`t be ridiculous. That is not a TV show, that is just Japanese porn crap.
And yes, Japanese porn producers crank out an endless stream of similar garbage.
I had a talk with a tencho the other day during a slow afternoon and he told me some things that I never thought of before. "Japanese Only" does not mean "No Foreigners" and there is a difference. That's why a Japanese businessman can usually always get his foreign client serviced without too many issues, etc. In this case, there is an assumption by the tencho that the foreigner has been briefed on the way to behave, the expectations and the protocols and will not cause a problem, as he is the responsibility of the Japanese businessman and the Japanese businessman does not want to lose face.
First, Japanese men usually don't have big cocks so size is never an issue. Unless a foreigner drops his pants, they have no way to tell your size. Most Japanese women in the business don't like big ones because they are not doing this for pleasure or curiosity, it's their job. This is a case where having a small one is to your advantage.
Second, Japanese men usually come in to get off and get out. They are not interested in lasting a long time or showing how virile they are by being able to go an hour without coming. Time is money and some foreigners who think it's macho to go a long time are actually wasting the lady's time because they typically take longer to finish and they are "harder on the equipment." This is a business that relies on predictable cycle times and foreigners are not as predictable as Japanese.
Third, the attitude and presentation of some foreigners ruins it for the rest of us. They are drunk, loud, obnoxious, rude, extroverted, smelly, etc., any or all of those things. How do you handle a drunk foreigner? Well, the easiest way is to exclude all foreigners. How do you handle a rude foreigner? Again, exclude all foreigners and the problem goes away.
The higher class licensed places like healths and soaps run legitimate businesses that have huge investments in them and all it takes is one bad experience to forever exclude those customers who are a threat to your business and livelihood. You as a foreigner are not doing them any favors by being a cash paying customer from their standpoint, the risk they assume when they take your money is not worth it to them, hence, you get turned down when you show up to be serviced. They don't know you so they are not interested in taking a chance with you. If you are Japanese, they assume that you've been raised with a sense that losing face and shaming yourself is not possible and that it's ingrained in your psyche and you would do nothing to induce this. From the Japanese perspective, they cannot assess whether or not you have any shame so you simply not welcome.
Lastly, because the business is based on anonymity, they don't know you so they have to do a risk and threat assessment. The assessment is usually negative, based on just looking at you and talking to you. That's why a good customer's foreign guest is usually welcome to be serviced because they have that customer's adversity to shame and losing face as an assurance that this foreigner will not be a problem because his sponsor is on the hook for losing face.
Come to think of it, I've never talked to my Japanese friends and heard them brag with macho bravado about how big or hard they are, how long they can last or how many rounds they can go. Most of my American friends do talk about their stamina, their endurance and how hard they can stay without viagra or cialis. That's pretty amazing because this is one of the characteristics that gets us rejected at all of these places.
I think the tencho explained this to me straight and I think he's probably spot on.
Azure Knight
12-25-07, 06:00
Homer69:
I've made friends with various working girls throughout Japan, and much of what they tell me about the business echoes what you have said. There are a few more points to add though.
The Japanese do passively believe that we foreigners are riddled with STD's and are generally less clean than the Japanese. Talking to girls who worked at places that did allow foreigners, they were generally told "If a Japanese guy wants nama (no condom) you have to do it, but if a foreign guy wants it, under no circumstances will do you it. Let him leave if it comes to that". Sadly, its these kinds of attitudes that has given rise to STD's in Japan as a whole, and not just among the sex industry.
Another aspect is that we aren't proficient in Japanese language or culture. All of these places operate on a very thin glass tapestry - they loophole the law by offering you "time" with the girl, and if she decides to have sex with you during that "time", well, that was her decision and not prostitution. The police pretty much turn a blind eye to it (I'm sure several officers are utilizing these services themselves...) but its one of those things where, if someone were to start raising a stink about something, they'd have to act. And indeed, every now and then the police do random crackdowns to make it look like they're not completely ignoring the problem. If we foreigners come barging in, with no understanding of how the system works, and no way to effectively communicate should a problem arise, we run the risk of bringing the whole place down.
Japanese can be just as drunk, loud, rude, extroverted, and smelly as any non-Japanese that comes through the shop (and I have heard horror stories), but as has been said, the difference is that even with all these things, they don't run the risk of bringing down the business.
Regarding the in-and-out issue, I sort of disagree though. Maybe that's how the tencho sees it, but I don't think the girls feel the same way. A lot of the girls I've talked to didn't like that aspect - it made them feel like nothing more than an object used for sex, as if they weren't even human. I usually make it a point to be polite - engage her in conversation before and afterwards. I also like to do what I can to make sure she enjoys our session as well. This has always gone over very well, with the girls noting the difference from the average session with a Japanese guy.
Also, from what I've heard, things work better for the girl (and perhaps the shop as well) for her to spend more time with one guy and get more money out of him, rather than to try and push him out and get another guy in. Especially if the guy becomes a regular customer and always drops a nice chunk of yen every time. I've heard that this area is another disadvantage for foreigners - we usually end up picking the cheaper options. Also, we're less prone to stick with one girl and dump tons of money into her/the shop.
Homer69:
Regarding the in-and-out issue, I sort of disagree though. Maybe that's how the tencho sees it, but I don't think the girls feel the same way. A lot of the girls I've talked to didn't like that aspect - it made them feel like nothing more than an object used for sex, as if they weren't even human. I usually make it a point to be polite - engage her in conversation before and afterwards. I also like to do what I can to make sure she enjoys our session as well. This has always gone over very well, with the girls noting the difference from the average session with a Japanese guy.
Also, from what I've heard, things work better for the girl (and perhaps the shop as well) for her to spend more time with one guy and get more money out of him, rather than to try and push him out and get another guy in. Especially if the guy becomes a regular customer and always drops a nice chunk of yen every time. I've heard that this area is another disadvantage for foreigners - we usually end up picking the cheaper options. Also, we're less prone to stick with one girl and dump tons of money into her/the shop.
Azure:
I think you hit it precisely. I've had much the same experiences you mentioned (and also treat the women sweetly, try to give them pleasure) and have been welcomed with what appears to be real pleasure when I return to the same woman/shop. Some agencies I've used remembered me even when I hadn't called or visited the shop for several months and was welcomed warmly by the person on the phone or the tout in front. In fact, a couple of times, women I've been with several times have asked me to extend the period for 20-30 minutes free. Both times, I agreed to extend but paid her extra when I left, anyway.
Most of the women I've been with, too, have made positive comments about the differences between me and the Japanese men they've had as customers. So if there is a sense that we foreigners are too "big" (and I've heard many, many positive but only a handful of negative comments from women about that), dirty, obnoxious, macho, etc., it's the predominantly the perception of the men who run the businesses, not most of the women who work for them.
That said, however, numerous times when I've been with a DH woman and am really enjoying the "ins and outs" such that I want it to last for as long as possible, the women has gently suggested that we come together, or asked if I hadn't come yet. Since I rarely use the services at night, I often have a woman as her first or second customer that day, and I do sometimes consider the possibility that I might "wear her out" or make her too raw down there for her to have another customer that day: condoms cause a lot more friction than skin does. If she's childless, I don't worry much about it, but if she's a single mother trying to support her family, I try to act accordingly.
Incidentally, on a side issue, according to dozens of the working women I've talked to about the payment issue, in almost all cases, they have to pay 1/2 of the basic charge to the shop but get to keep any extra you pay them for options; thus, most will happily give you FS for extra pay, as it might increase their income by 25-50%.
I was only relaying what the tencho said. I did not say I agreed with it but much of it did make sense. One thing I do know is that most those ladies are doing it strictly for the money and no other reason. Almost all of us are paying the money because our brains are wired such that it's a biological need. We have demand and they provide the supply. If they happen to meet a guy that clicks, that's a bonus for both sides. We are all human and that stuff happens. But I seriously doubt any of them are out looking for male companionship the way nampa targets are in bars.
But I do agree that us foreigners banging away for long periods of time does wear out the equipment and they don't like it. That part is just common sense. If she's too sore to perform then nobody makes money and it causes a bad customer experience for everyone that follows. In general, Japanese men don't have this internal desire to prove to their buddies that they can last longer than a few minutes the way we do. I know if I shoot quickly I feel a bit of an inferiority complex about myself because that's in my cultural programming. Look at all of the "premature ejaculation" remedies we read about, being able to "last longer" and "satisfy our partner" BS that we are exposed to. I can read these ads in most sports pages of local papers in the US. Japanese men are not under such pressure to perform for a long period of time and it makes the industry prefer them over us. I know most of my foreigner friends go in trying to figure out how they can last longer, perhaps in an effort to impress the lady or prove their manhood. My Japanese friends have no such ideas in their head and I think they enjoy it for what it is, getting off and getting out and moving on to business.
Of course you can treat a lady nicely and make her experience more pleasant. This is not the problem we face. The problem we face is the prejudice we are subjected to because we are stereotyped and I believe from a business standpoint, it's a fair stereotype if they want to avoid risk.
Azure:
I think you hit it precisely. I've had much the same experiences you mentioned (and also treat the women sweetly, try to give them pleasure) and have been welcomed with what appears to be real pleasure when I return to the same woman/shop. Some agencies I've used remembered me even when I hadn't called or visited the shop for several months and was welcomed warmly by the person on the phone or the tout in front. In fact, a couple of times, women I've been with several times have asked me to extend the period for 20-30 minutes free. Both times, I agreed to extend but paid her extra when I left, anyway.
Most of the women I've been with, too, have made positive comments about the differences between me and the Japanese men they've had as customers. So if there is a sense that we foreigners are too "big" (and I've heard many, many positive but only a handful of negative comments from women about that), dirty, obnoxious, macho, etc., it's the predominantly the perception of the men who run the businesses, not most of the women who work for them.
That said, however, numerous times when I've been with a DH woman and am really enjoying the "ins and outs" such that I want it to last for as long as possible, the women has gently suggested that we come together, or asked if I hadn't come yet. Since I rarely use the services at night, I often have a woman as her first or second customer that day, and I do sometimes consider the possibility that I might "wear her out" or make her too raw down there for her to have another customer that day: condoms cause a lot more friction than skin does. If she's childless, I don't worry much about it, but if she's a single mother trying to support her family, I try to act accordingly.
Incidentally, on a side issue, according to dozens of the working women I've talked to about the payment issue, in almost all cases, they have to pay 1/2 of the basic charge to the shop but get to keep any extra you pay them for options; thus, most will happily give you FS for extra pay, as it might increase their income by 25-50%.
Crouching Tiger
12-27-07, 00:45
For me it is not proving to anyone anything. It is more of enjoying this hot creature for as long as I can cause it feels good and wanting to get my moneys worth. Maybe that is selfish. Just my 2 cents worth.
Azure Knight
12-27-07, 04:20
Well, yeah. Its not a male/female companionship kind of deal. But there is still a customer/service dynamic that comes into play, which is universal for all professions really.
If you've ever worked any kind of job that puts you in contact with customers, you know that there are people who just come, get what they're looking for, and leave. There are people who come and are real pricks about everything. And there are people who are nice and friendly, and let you know they appreciate the service you're providing for them. These people are always very nice to deal with - even if you hate your job, you enjoy interacting with them, and if they become regular customers, you may start giving them some freebies or extra good service as a token of appreciation.
Mongering isn't any different. In the end, its still a business transaction, and she's there for the money. But when you have the guys who just come, blow their load and leave, or the guys who are real jerks about everything, it can be really nice for her to get a guy who is nice, polite, and tries to make the experience enjoyable for the both of them. Just like any other merchant/customer relationship, she may begin to reward him in various little ways.
In general, I feel that we mongers should always be nice and respectful to the ladies. They are providing a valuable service to us, and a very difficult one at that. It benefits us as well, as we can enjoy nice little reward perks. While I think this is true for any region, I feel its doubly true for Japan. Barring any incredible, revolutionary circumstances, I doubt Japan will change its mind about us as a whole and start welcoming foreigners en masse. However, if we can make a difference in just one girl or in one shop, then who knows? Maybe we can gain access to another place we couldn't before, and with so much of the mongering world in Japan cut off from us, even one new avenue would be appreciated.
Homer69, this isn't directed at you specifically. Just some general thoughts I have on the matter. Perhaps some of the lurkers can keep it in mind on their next mongering outing.
One thing I do know is that most those ladies are doing it strictly for the money and no other reason. Almost all of us are paying the money because our brains are wired such that it's a biological need. We have demand and they provide the supply. If they happen to meet a guy that clicks, that's a bonus for both sides. We are all human and that stuff happens. But I seriously doubt any of them are out looking for male companionship the way nampa targets are in bars.
First, Japanese men usually don't have big cocks so size is never an issue. Unless a foreigner drops his pants, they have no way to tell your size. Most Japanese women in the business don't like big ones because they are not doing this for pleasure or curiosity, it's their job. This is a case where having a small one is to your advantage.
I dunno. I've found the girls, especially the Japanese women, really love big cocks. More so when I make their clits hard as a rock. If they are SW working, they just don't want to be fucked by one, because they will then not be able to work afterwards for other clients. So watch her play with it if you don't fuck her. She's in bliss.
The Japanese women hate the Japanese men. Really they do.
Gyaos.
They don't want to be fucked by one, nor do they want to be choked by one, either. They do hate Japanese men, I agree.
I dunno. I've found the girls, especially the Japanese women, really love big cocks. More so when I make their clits hard as a rock. If they are SW working, they just don't want to be fucked by one, because they will then not be able to work afterwards for other clients. So watch her play with it if you don't fuck her. She's in bliss.
The Japanese women hate the Japanese men. Really they do.
Gyaos.
They don't want to be fucked by one, nor do they want to be choked by one, either. They do hate Japanese men, I agree.
But they love shiatsu on it. And they love it gentle and respected. I vote they like 'em big.
Gyaos.
AussieGaigin
12-31-07, 22:23
But they love shiatsu on it.
Gyaos.
Or perhaps "shakuhachi" ??
Or perhaps "shakuhachi" ??
あれ？ 尺八 だ！
AussieGaigin
01-02-08, 11:04
あれ？ 尺八 だ！
I hope this isn't rude.!!
Nihongo wa wakarimasen.
I hope this isn't rude.!!
Nihongo wa wakarimasen.
Depends how serious you are about music :-)
I hope this isn't rude.!!
Nihongo wa wakarimasen.
To be safe I usually put sumimasen in front of any encounter.
Topos
Good day guys,
I'm coming in from Malaysia with no knowledge whatsoever in the japanese language. Heard about places turning away foreigners but I m seriously wanting to visit these places as I have a fetish for lactating women. (sorry if it turns off some of you). Anyway, you can browse and see whther I'd be turned away at any of these places. Thanks a bunch!
http://www.bonyuu.com/mamanomune/top.html
www.royalmilk.com
Good day guys,
I'm coming in from Malaysia with no knowledge whatsoever in the japanese language. Heard about places turning away foreigners but I m seriously wanting to visit these places as I have a fetish for lactating women. (sorry if it turns off some of you). Anyway, you can browse and see whther I'd be turned away at any of these places. Thanks a bunch!
http://www.bonyuu.com/mamanomune/top.html
www.royalmilk.com
I see nothing about gaijin in the mama no mune site, but the royal milk site expressly says foreigners a re forbidden. Odds are about 100% that neither of them have English speakers.
I see nothing about gaijin in the mama no mune site, but the royal milk site expressly says foreigners a re forbidden. Odds are about 100% that neither of them have English speakers.Thanks for the input bro! Looks like I m gonna have a problem then, eh? Any suggestions on how to go about. Can I get somebody to be an intrepeter and would they entertain such things? Sorry to be such a nuisance and thanks in advance. Cheers!
But I do agree that us foreigners banging away for long periods of time does wear out the equipment and they don't like it. That part is just common sense. If she's too sore to perform then nobody makes money and it causes a bad customer experience for everyone that follows. In general, Japanese men don't have this internal desire to prove to their buddies that they can last longer than a few minutes the way we do. I know if I shoot quickly I feel a bit of an inferiority complex about myself because that's in my cultural programming. Look at all of the "premature ejaculation" remedies we read about, being able to "last longer" and "satisfy our partner" BS that we are exposed to. I can read these ads in most sports pages of local papers in the US. Japanese men are not under such pressure to perform for a long period of time and it makes the industry prefer them over us. I know most of my foreigner friends go in trying to figure out how they can last longer, perhaps in an effort to impress the lady or prove their manhood. My Japanese friends have no such ideas in their head and I think they enjoy it for what it is, getting off and getting out and moving on to business.
Interesting view, Homer, and I agree with a lot of it. One thing left out though is that if you pay for 20-30 minutes and shoot in the first 5, it can seem like wasted time. I myself find the longer I can hold out, the better it feels for me. If I do shoot faster than I wanted, I usually plan to get back on after a little break and ride some more. Hence my preference for DH girls who generally expect to give you 2 shots if you have paid for over an hour.
In addition, there are some DH girls who once turned on, really do want FS and offer it cheaply or even for free. Of course these types are probably servicing a couple guys a day rather than a dozen.
if you shoot in the first 5 minutes then you are a great customer in their eyes. the typical japanese customer does this and that's why he gets serviced and we can't. remember, the average japanese customer views these places as less than desirable, dirty and as therapeutic, rather than a place to seek pleasure. they go there to fix a problem (feeling horny) because the thought of doing sex with their wife is just not very attractive or convenient. they would much rather get a freebie via nampa but that poses huge headaches if she becomes attached to them.
this is the way things are. no amount of wishful thinking on our part is going to change the way the business operates. we're screwed and we need to make the best of it.
interesting view, homer, and i agree with a lot of it. one thing left out though is that if you pay for 20-30 minutes and shoot in the first 5, it can seem like wasted time. i myself find the longer i can hold out, the better it feels for me. if i do shoot faster than i wanted, i usually plan to get back on after a little break and ride some more. hence my preference for dh girls who generally expect to give you 2 shots if you have paid for over an hour.
in addition, there are some dh girls who once turned on, really do want fs and offer it cheaply or even for free. of course these types are probably servicing a couple guys a day rather than a dozen.
If you shoot in the first 5 minutes then you are a great customer in their eyes.
This is the way things are. No amount of wishful thinking on our part is going to change the way the business operates. We're screwed and we need to make the best of it.
Right on the money Homer we do have to make the best of it and when we find one that LOVES to fuck we usually keep it a secret........hahahaha!!
When I have been in Kawasakii I have clocked some Of the Japanese guys and some are in and out in 15Min good customer.
One guy though (He was good looking I wonder why he was actually there)
anyway he picked a real beauty clocked him at 45min lucky bugger.
Go figure.
Us Gaijin are a little more performance focused.
if you shoot in the first 5 minutes then you are a great customer in their eyes. the typical japanese customer does this and that's why he gets serviced and we can't. remember, the average japanese customer views these places as less than desirable, dirty and as therapeutic, rather than a place to seek pleasure. they go there to fix a problem (feeling horny) because the thought of doing sex with their wife is just not very attractive or convenient. they would much rather get a freebie via nampa but that poses huge headaches if she becomes attached to them.
this is the way things are. no amount of wishful thinking on our part is going to change the way the business operates. we're screwed and we need to make the best of it.
i do agree that a girl would more likely to appreciate getting it over with an ugly guy, and moving on to the next fee, but i still believe that with all the offers of 60/80/90/120 minute courses that there must be a real market for longer/repeat performers. also, some health locations aren't that busy, so it can be preferable to hang out with a nice guy (like me haha) than back at the shop.
and there are girls who are not clockwatchers...
I'm guessing the longer courses are not necessarily offered to be filled by longer thrusting times but probably more geared towards hostess bar type conversation and flattery. I'm not sure about this and it's all speculation. But, one thing the tencho made clear to me was that if a guy needs an extension it's going to cost him and that's why the extension rates are so high. They don't like extensions. It's rough on the equipment and if someone is waiting for the girl it messes it up for the guy in the waiting room.
I do agree that a girl would more likely to appreciate getting it over with an ugly guy, and moving on to the next fee, but I still believe that with all the offers of 60/80/90/120 minute courses that there must be a real market for longer/repeat performers. Also, some Health locations aren't that busy, so it can be preferable to hang out with a nice guy (like me haha) than back at the shop.
And there are girls who are not clockwatchers...
I'm guessing the longer courses are not necessarily offered to be filled by longer thrusting times but probably more geared towards hostess bar type conversation and flattery. I'm not sure about this and it's all speculation. But, one thing the tencho made clear to me was that if a guy needs an extension it's going to cost him and that's why the extension rates are so high. They don't like extensions. It's rough on the equipment and if someone is waiting for the girl it messes it up for the guy in the waiting room.
For a DH is might be more sucking time and recovery time (with the conversation you mention). For a KDH it means extra rounds, but they still might be enocouraged to cum quickly (something that irritates the hell out of me and one reason I like AM).
My guess is the extension rates are high because anyone who has paid for the time but hasn't come yet will be willing to pay a lot just to finish.
I'm guessing the longer courses are not necessarily offered to be filled by longer thrusting times but probably more geared towards hostess bar type conversation and flattery. I'm not sure about this and it's all speculation. But, one thing the tencho made clear to me was that if a guy needs an extension it's going to cost him and that's why the extension rates are so high. They don't like extensions.
I agree that there's some truth to what you say, but I think you're making too big a generalization, Homer. Based on my considerable experience w/DH women, there have been many (maybe 1/4-1/3) who encouraged me to buy longer time (or hinted that it would be more fun, etc), who actually volunteered to give me extra time free, and/or who encouraged me and did their best to help me get in and off twice in a session. They were always happy to cuddle, chat and play around up to the very last minute. Of course, many others have clearly wanted me to shoot quickly and head for the shower.
With the multitude of personalities and reasons for being in the sex business involved, plus the complexity of the relationship/appeal between provider and customer, I think it's quite inaccurate to make such vast generalizations--particularly that the women themselves mostly prefer a fast comer. Of course, the shop owners do, as they get 50% or so of the basic fee and don't want a women to quite for the day after her first customer. But the woman herself may feel that it was well worth the reduced income if she was treated well and pleasured by the guy. The way the managers/owners feel and the way the workers feel are often quite different.
My original message was relaying what a tencho told me. I added my opinions so be clear that all of this was from management's point of view and it's usually management who makes the call whether or not we get service.
I did a little more pondering on this and it just occurred to me that my bad to mediocre experiences with Chinese ladies (very consistent and I can't really recall a great experience with a Chinese lady) is because there is no coherent conversation. Koreans are a little better in making conversation and the Japanese ladies I've had are the best. I'm not talking about bar hostess flattery, either. Just chit-chat about where you're from, where you work, about your girlfriend or wife, how cute and skillful she is (it always helps to compliment her regardless of how homely or ugly she might be). Obviously, for foreigners without any Japanese skills it's impossible to have coherent conversation and the experience is downgraded as such.
I once read a Japanese blog that Japanese guys go to fuzoku places so they can fulfill their fantasy of feeling like a king for a short amount of time and then walk away and get on with their lives. Pink salons are extremely popular because it represents the quickest way to take care of "your problem" and get back to work or your life.
Also remember that most of us don't have access to the full range of Japanese ladies out there. We mainly have access to those who will tolerate going with a foreigner so our sample set is a little whacked in favor of only those ladies who will have us. I've been fortunate enough to have service from ladies who almost never accept foreigners because a friend introduced me to a place and I got sponsored, so to speak. Those ladies are mostly young (how often do we have access to an 18 year old Japanese lady?) and a little immature and innocent (compared to older ladies in their late 20s) and fun to be with for old farts like me.
But my point is, this thread is relevant to what management thinks, not what individual ladies think, because it's management that decides whether or not we get service.
I agree that there's some truth to what you say, but I think you're making too big a generalization, Homer. Based on my considerable experience w/DH women, there have been many (maybe 1/4-1/3) who encouraged me to buy longer time (or hinted that it would be more fun, etc), who actually volunteered to give me extra time free, and/or who encouraged me and did their best to help me get in and off twice in a session. They were always happy to cuddle, chat and play around up to the very last minute. Of course, many others have clearly wanted me to shoot quickly and head for the shower.
With the multitude of personalities and reasons for being in the sex business involved, plus the complexity of the relationship/appeal between provider and customer, I think it's quite inaccurate to make such vast generalizations--particularly that the women themselves mostly prefer a fast comer. Of course, the shop owners do, as they get 50% or so of the basic fee and don't want a women to quite for the day after her first customer. But the woman herself may feel that it was well worth the reduced income if she was treated well and pleasured by the guy. The way the managers/owners feel and the way the workers feel are often quite different.
Azure Knight
01-14-08, 19:02
While that's one tencho's POV, I don't know if its representative or some or even the majority of them. On the contrary, perhaps.
Regarding time - whether its one guy pumping her for 20 minutes, or 5 guys at 4 minutes each, she's still getting pumped for 20 minutes. I would think that 5 different guys are much harder on the equipment than 1.
If one particular shop is really popular, or the girl doesn't mind taking on a lot of guys, perhaps it would be more advantageous money wise to get guys in and out as quickly as possible. After all, 2 guys @ 60 minute course does bring in more money than 1 guy @ 120 minutes. And perhaps this is the mindset during peak traffic times. But I've always been under the impression that the goal was to milk as much money out of one guy as possible, and hopefully have him become a repeat customer. Especially considering that these shops are usually all in the same area and competiting for business - even if a shop did rush a guy in and out, there's no guarantee that the next guy will be soon behind him.
If a Japanese guy ends up buying a lot of time, I don't think all of that is devoted to intercourse. Even in a 60 minute course - perhaps 5 minutes of that would be actual intercourse, maybe 10 minutes of oral/other play, and then the rest of the time would be dedicated to conversation. Perhaps this is where we foreigners become undesireable - in a 60 minute course, we'd want to spend most of that time getting off, where the Japanese guy will get off once and spend the rest of the time talking about his mean boss at work.
My original message was relaying what a tencho told me. I added my opinions so be clear that all of this was from management's point of view and it's usually management who makes the call whether or not we get service.
AK: I think you hit the nail on the head with this paragraph. I have found that if I spend most of the time pleasuring myself, pumping away or letting her suck away, the lady starts getting annoyed. If I go quicker and then spend time chatting up with her then she becomes much kinder and a nicer person to be around. If I didn't have conversational skills then she obviously gets stressed, etc. due to the lack of activity to fill in the time. Now, I try to pop within a reasonable amount of time and she seems very pleased that she won't be there for an inordinate amount of time trying to get me off because I'm slow or can't pop. I think they are most worried about that case. If you pop quickly and talk for the rest of the time, they don't have any problems with that. I think if you or her just bangs and grinds away then it's hard on the equipment, wears her out and costs the shop money.
Too many macho men come in and think they have to prove something. That's a foreigner characteristic and obviously they don't like it here. So, either adapt or continue to be discriminated against is the way I look at it.
If a Japanese guy ends up buying a lot of time, I don't think all of that is devoted to intercourse. Even in a 60 minute course - perhaps 5 minutes of that would be actual intercourse, maybe 10 minutes of oral/other play, and then the rest of the time would be dedicated to conversation. Perhaps this is where we foreigners become undesireable - in a 60 minute course, we'd want to spend most of that time getting off, where the Japanese guy will get off once and spend the rest of the time talking about his mean boss at work.
Azure Knight
01-16-08, 04:13
I think they are most worried about that case. If you pop quickly and talk for the rest of the time, they don't have any problems with that. I think if you or her just bangs and grinds away then it's hard on the equipment, wears her out and costs the shop money.
Too many macho men come in and think they have to prove something. That's a foreigner characteristic and obviously they don't like it here. So, either adapt or continue to be discriminated against is the way I look at it.
While that may be part of the problem, I don't think that's the major underlying reason why we foreigners don't get accepted in general.
I think the first reason is that most foreigners don't understand Japanese, and how the system works. While the sex industry is huge and thriving in Japan, it still operates under the table. Most Japanese are willing to turn and look the other way so long as nobody's kicking up any dirt. The police will occasionally raid places to make it look like they actually care. But its still one of those things where, if dirt were to be kicked up, the government/police would have to do something about, especially if it got exposed on an international scale.
If they allow a foreigner in, who doesn't know how things work, and then a problem occurs, there will be little to no methods available for a resolution. At best, it's a bad experience/loss of money for the shop, and at worse, the shop could get closed down, or it could lead to a crack-down in that particular area. We are sort of an unknown in an already-delicate business, and most shops aren't willing to take the risk.
The second, and perhaps the biggest reason, is that openly allowing foreigners would more or less be opening up the industry to tourism. With a foreign population of only 1%, most of the foreigners here are short term - students or tourists. As with any trade, when you open it up to tourism, you subject it to change that may not be for the best. Speaking of, ironically, Japanese male tourists are changing the sex scene in Thailand. When I was in Bangkok, a lot of the locals (forigners who lived there, not native Thai's) were complaining that Japanese male tourists were driving up the prices. The women also came to prefer Japanese men, as they were willing to pay much more for much less. A lot of the Thai girls did their wardrobe and makeup, or flat-out had surgery, to look more Japanese to appeal to the tourists. I was surprised by the sheer number of Japanese-look-alikes walking around.
I'm not a tourist, and I'm sure many/most of the guys here on this forum are not as well, but for the Japanese...when they look at a foreigner, they think "tourist/student/short-term stay", and 90% of the time they're right. It sucks for us residents, but I can at least understand the reasoning. The guys in Thailand hate the changes being made to the industry by tourism, the Japanese guys fear it, and I'm sure we'd be displeased by it on our home turf as well. This is, afterall, a service meant for Japanese guys. I'm not sure what changes introducing tourism to Japan's sex trade would bring - a change in price? More girls trying to look western? More girls becoming sexually aggressive (something Japanese men actively dislike)? But Japanese guys would rather not find out, and understandably so.
Then you factor in all the other stuff about foreigners - the Japanese belief that we've got STD's, and yes, that we might be hard on the equipment, and it just makes more sense for a tout/mamasan to deny us in a spot-judgement situation. Also, Japanese guys sort of have a complex about foreign guys, both in penis size and sexual performance. I think it would be bad for business for a shop if there were foreigners constantly coming out of it. Most of my Japanese friends have told me that they would never want to have sex with any girl I'd gotten to first.
I really think its more of an anti-tourism sentiment than anything. I've gotten access to a few places I ordinarily wouldn't have when I demonstrated that I actually lived and worked here. After a few years, I got invited into one place, and the guy explained that as he'd seen me walking around and speaking Japanese over the years, he realized that I wasn't a tourist. When I do get into a place, the staff is usually nice and friendly to me.
So then its just back to the old problem of how to get in. Having a Japanese male sponsor you is of course the best way. If you're here for a while and fairly patient, letting yourself be seen on a regular, consistent basis in front of the shop can help. I've heard that guys in suits have better acceptance rates (as most tourists and students don't often wear suits, its a sign that you live and work here), but I've never tried it so I don't know. I have occasionally taken cell phone calls in Japanese while walking around an area, which seemed to help my cause a bit.
What would be awesome, is if we could form some sort of regional-based group of "trusted foreigners", and work out an agreement with the shops in our respective areas. Sort of like the sponsorship deal. It could work with the right amount of effort.
AK:
You are preaching to the choir. My Japanese friends tell me they won't go with a lady if she services foreigners. That's the way it is. Regarding the business suit, I've done it and it does help but I can't stand wearing a suit when I don't need to for work.
The delicacy of the industry is probably the most important factor that excludes us. We are not Japanese and we really don't know how things work, the nuances and the little things that are unknown to most foreigners, unless you are a very long term resident and student of the culture. I'm pretty good but in reality, Ill never "be Japanese" and I will "never get it" from their standpoint. I do adapt to their norms and I don't act like an asshole the way many foreigners do when they get pissed off but it's very frustrating, degrading and maddening with the trouble that I go through. The only good thing that comes out of it is that I am very good at accepting rejection now, much better than before I moved here.
I don't know what it is about foreigners but why are some so loud when cruising in groups? Is that a defense mechanism or just them being dumb asses? Not only is that scary to Japanese but it typifies the stereotype and doesn't make it easier for us. I guess what I should be asking is why do they even hang out in groups when on the prowl? That's just idiotic. It intimidates the tencho and it's just bad for business.
I have my favorite places and I keep them to myself. They know me as a regular and I have no trouble getting serviced. I also use common sense. I never go there when they are busy because I never want to scare the Japanese customers away. I even told the tencho that I try to come by when they're not busy and he thanked me and then told me not to worry about it but I know he appreciates it. This kind of stuff is just common sense. I never go after drinking and I always go alone. I'm easy on the equipment (which takes some willpower) and always try to shoot reasonably quickly, even though I would prefer to go longer. I even apologize sometimes for taking too long, even though I shot quickly. I tell you, they love it when you shoot quick and hate it when you take a long time in my experience. I may be wrong about this but if I figure I want to be a repeat customer then I better try to be a good customer at the same time.
We are virtually in full agreement. I just wish more short term visitors would take some of this in and apply it to their experience here.
While that may be part of the problem, I don't think that's the major underlying reason why we foreigners don't get accepted in general.
I think the first reason is that most foreigners don't understand Japanese, and how the system works. While the sex industry is huge and thriving in Japan, it still operates under the table. Most Japanese are willing to turn and look the other way so long as nobody's kicking up any dirt. The police will occasionally raid places to make it look like they actually care. But its still one of those things where, if dirt were to be kicked up, the government/police would have to do something about, especially if it got exposed on an international scale.
If they allow a foreigner in, who doesn't know how things work, and then a problem occurs, there will be little to no methods available for a resolution. At best, it's a bad experience/loss of money for the shop, and at worse, the shop could get closed down, or it could lead to a crack-down in that particular area. We are sort of an unknown in an already-delicate business, and most shops aren't willing to take the risk.
The second, and perhaps the biggest reason, is that openly allowing foreigners would more or less be opening up the industry to tourism. With a foreign population of only 1%, most of the foreigners here are short term - students or tourists. As with any trade, when you open it up to tourism, you subject it to change that may not be for the best. Speaking of, ironically, Japanese male tourists are changing the sex scene in Thailand. When I was in Bangkok, a lot of the locals (forigners who lived there, not native Thai's) were complaining that Japanese male tourists were driving up the prices. The women also came to prefer Japanese men, as they were willing to pay much more for much less. A lot of the Thai girls did their wardrobe and makeup, or flat-out had surgery, to look more Japanese to appeal to the tourists. I was surprised by the sheer number of Japanese-look-alikes walking around.
I'm not a tourist, and I'm sure many/most of the guys here on this forum are not as well, but for the Japanese...when they look at a foreigner, they think "tourist/student/short-term stay", and 90% of the time they're right. It sucks for us residents, but I can at least understand the reasoning. The guys in Thailand hate the changes being made to the industry by tourism, the Japanese guys fear it, and I'm sure we'd be displeased by it on our home turf as well. This is, afterall, a service meant for Japanese guys. I'm not sure what changes introducing tourism to Japan's sex trade would bring - a change in price? More girls trying to look western? More girls becoming sexually aggressive (something Japanese men actively dislike)? But Japanese guys would rather not find out, and understandably so.
Then you factor in all the other stuff about foreigners - the Japanese belief that we've got STD's, and yes, that we might be hard on the equipment, and it just makes more sense for a tout/mamasan to deny us in a spot-judgement situation. Also, Japanese guys sort of have a complex about foreign guys, both in penis size and sexual performance. I think it would be bad for business for a shop if there were foreigners constantly coming out of it. Most of my Japanese friends have told me that they would never want to have sex with any girl I'd gotten to first.
I really think its more of an anti-tourism sentiment than anything. I've gotten access to a few places I ordinarily wouldn't have when I demonstrated that I actually lived and worked here. After a few years, I got invited into one place, and the guy explained that as he'd seen me walking around and speaking Japanese over the years, he realized that I wasn't a tourist. When I do get into a place, the staff is usually nice and friendly to me.
So then its just back to the old problem of how to get in. Having a Japanese male sponsor you is of course the best way. If you're here for a while and fairly patient, letting yourself be seen on a regular, consistent basis in front of the shop can help. I've heard that guys in suits have better acceptance rates (as most tourists and students don't often wear suits, its a sign that you live and work here), but I've never tried it so I don't know. I have occasionally taken cell phone calls in Japanese while walking around an area, which seemed to help my cause a bit.
What would be awesome, is if we could form some sort of regional-based group of "trusted foreigners", and work out an agreement with the shops in our respective areas. Sort of like the sponsorship deal. It could work with the right amount of effort.
AK and Homer,
Thanks for the insights. Even though I have good control of the langauge and am very familiar with Japanese culture as I am working on an advance degree in that area; I was and still am very ignorant of the whole sex scene here in Japan. Even though I am only here this time for about a year or so the info you give is very helpful. Will try not to screw it up for those living here permanetly.
Azure Knight
01-17-08, 02:05
Homer69:
My post wasn't really directed at you specifically (know I'm preaching to the choir) but written in the hopes that lurkers/newcomers might read it and learn a thing or two about how the system works. Like Kiyomori did. Thanks!
I believe that, in general, the system treats you as well as you treat it. If a guy goes in, is rude, expects the girl to perform super-human feats, and generally just doesn't respect the service, he'll get crappy service in return, and it may sour the girl/shop to other mongers who come after him. But if he's nice, respectful, and considers the girl and well as the shop, then they will treat him well in return and perhaps extend that graciousness to other mongers in general. I believe that this holds true for both tourists and residents, and for scenes all over the world, not just Japan.
In Japan, its sort of magnified because there are so few foreigners here. If one guy goes to a place and acts like an ass, a girl/shop may not hesistate to label ass foreigners as asses and have no problems denying us service. As this is an industry that is supported 99% by Japanese men, they don't need our cash. A Japanese guy has the luxury of being able to act like an ass and not ruin it for the rest of his brothers. We however don't.
We can use this to our advantage though. Nearly every girl I've bothered to talk to has expressed a dis-interest in Japanese guys. They can and do come in drunk, are rude/inconsiderate, and are even rough on the equipment. Most of the girls have said that foreigners on the whole are a much better experience, and I know of a few who actively prefer us. I've also been the first foreigner for a few gals, and they seemed to enjoy the experience overall, so maybe that will open them up to accepting more foreigners in the future. The girls will also show their gratitude with better services, freebies, etc.
I honestly don't think that the Japanese sex industry is going to open up and welcome foreigners in anytime soon. For them, there's too many risks and potential negatives that outweigh any potential gains it might bring. What we can do, is continue to visit the places that are willing to accept foreigners, and make sure that its a pleasant experience for all involved. Though shop turnover rates and word of mouth, this may increase the number of shops/girls that we have access to. Thanks to the wonderful resource that is the ISG, we have help in finding the places that will accept us, as well as tips on how to get into places you ordinarily couldn't. If I write a report about a shop/girl, I do so with the hope/expectation that all who read, should they go patronize that particular option, will do so in a respectful and courteous manner. It's just the best for everyone.
Homer69:
We can use this to our advantage though. Nearly every girl I've bothered to talk to has expressed a dis-interest in Japanese guys. They can and do come in drunk, are rude/inconsiderate, and are even rough on the equipment. Most of the girls have said that foreigners on the whole are a much better experience, and I know of a few who actively prefer us. I've also been the first foreigner for a few gals, and they seemed to enjoy the experience overall, so maybe that will open them up to accepting more foreigners in the future. The girls will also show their gratitude with better services, freebies, etc.
Hear, hear! This has been my experience as well. With only a handful of exceptions, the woman I've been with in the various sex businesses have told me I was their first gaijin, or at least first Westerner (many have had other east Asian men). When I help them take off and put on their coats, help them get undressed, hold the door for them, etc., they almost always make some comment about how rare it is. Most have also been surprised when I ask them if it hurts (which I almost always do, as most of them are so small inside), and many have told me Japanese men never ask such questions even when they're quite rough. Many have asked me to please call for them again, and a couple have even made me promise to do so. The majority of those I've been with were either 1) truly did feel good (some immensely so) about their experience with me or 2) they should all win best actress awards! Clearly, regardless of what many agency owners/managers think of us, I would say that the majority of women in the business like us, maybe prefer us--given a choice.
I've been reading this thread and it's very interesting. Here's my take.
First you have to separate the Japanese sex industry from Japan. Because it's operated by the Yakuza, who cares if they don't allow foreigners into their establishments, or even worse, a foreigner needs a sponsor (i.e.: a Japanese male) to vouch to get in. We all know it's wrong and it's totally separate from Japan and Japanese culture. There are plenty of places to get serviced, including KMPs (my favourite), and the Chinese. And, they do need the money, or they wouldn't be in business. I think the biggest reason the Yakuza doesn't want foreigners inside is more about power protection than anything else. If a foreigner got pissed and a bundle of midgets (sorry for the pun) came after him, he'd knock about 4 of them out cold, all would be in the hospital, their pinkie fingers would get bolted, the place gets shutdown.....that's the score.
It has nothing to do with the women. The Japanese women love foreigners. They all hate Japanese men. Even the ones married to Japanese men, hate them (because one "motto" of a Japanese man is "if you have to cheat on your wife, don't tell her", which creates the Japanese wife to cheat on her Japanese husband too...."lip, lip, lip my stockings." You mean "rip". "Yeah, "lrip my stockings.") Pick a Japanese woman off the street and say "I want you to be American". Bang, you have a wife. End of story.
As for "trying" to get serviced inside a Japanese establishment, it's the same as fishing. Send an email in honorific Japanese and one that bites will take you in under a reservation. No sweat. I did it, it worked, I got the best looking girl of all, I left, they gave me a ride. They knew, no one was getting punched in the nose with me.
I like to consider the old Bill Clinton way of getting the Japanese in line. When the Japanese car industry was not letting the Americans inside, Clinton imposed a 200% tax executive order on all Japanese cars in America. The Japanese capitulated immediately. It's the same thing. As for the Japanese taking over Bangkok and raising the prices, that's only true in some areas, but not all. There is the great Sanzanka, Akane, Sailor Moon (yet to visit the 3rd place) and other establishments that are just over the top thanks to this. Since I speak fluent Japanese, it has helped me in Bangkok 4000%! Before it was English and "nit-noi" Thai. Now with Japanese, I'm talking in "my other reality" with the girls in Bangkok. A blessing to say the least.
Oh yeah, the Japanese want to impose Japanese fluency tests to long term resident visas. Great, 90% of foreigners will be getting kicked out. Sign me up. In the end, a Japanese will go ape for any foreigner, so long as you can make Japan super rich. It's as easy as 3.14159265
Gyaos.
Dire Wolf98
01-19-08, 15:05
Gyaos,
Obviously, you have both fluency in Japanese and experience in the Fuzoku world. You make a lot of good points and offer good suggestions. However, I have to disagree with some of the glittering generalities contained in your post.
"It has nothing to do with the women. The Japanese women love foreigners. "
I disagree. Nothing is a strong statement. During my time in Tokyo, I encountered numerous situations where the girls wouldn’t service foreigners or were very reluctant
Back in the days of alt. Sex. Prostitution. Tokyo, I posted report about a terrible session at USA Fashion Health Club in Kabukicho. USA was (is? ) part of the Crystal chain of Fashion Health Club. I had been a frequent customer of Roppongi & Dogenzaka Crystal and occasional customer of USA. However, one day I dropped by on an afternoon when the girls weren’t into gaijin. Eventually, one J-Girl was forced to service me and it was like pulling teeth the entire session.
I belonged to a Date Club in Tokyo, which was one of my best sources for P4P during my time in Japan. I met a various frenzied Monster Fuck and sweet sweet GFE J-Girls. However, there were girls who wouldn’t go with foreigners.
For some J-Girls, especially from shitamachi, foreigners have too many non-quantified variables. They worry about hairy bodies, beards, bathing, practices, etc. News reports tell them that in America, people frequently murder each other (pre-Giuliani the murder rate in NYC was 2, 000+ per year – compare that to the murder rate of the entire country of Japan). Brevity prevents me from going on and on.
As for the Yakuza, in some cases it’s personal, not business. They dislike foreigners and don’t won’t to see them in their shops. And, just because a foreigner has a height/weight advantage over many Yakuza, don’t assume they are easy. Numerous Yakuza are familiar with the Martial Arts. When they aren’t, the often have failed rikishi (sumo) body guards and/or are financial benefactors of numerous omawari-san.
In other cases, it’s business and not personal. All it takes is one bad apple/experience to ruin it for the rest of us. It’s not fair but that’s reality. All it takes is for one foreigner to cause a scene because he doesn’t understand Japanese and can’t comprehend the difference between a Fashion Health and a Soapland; and that the latter offers full service while the former doesn’t. All it takes is one foreigner with a lack of Japanese ability and a lack of appreciation for the price structure in Japan to cause a scene and that shop is off our list.
Now, I have to say your e-mail approach is brilliant. Two of my friends in Tokyo tried that and it worked fairly well. There a lot of fish in the sea, you don’t have to eat every one.
Dire Wolf
I've been reading this thread and it's very interesting. Here's my take.
First you have to separate the Japanese sex industry from Japan. Because it's operated by the Yakuza, who cares if they don't allow foreigners into their establishments, or even worse, a foreigner needs a sponsor (i.e.: a Japanese male) to vouch to get in. We all know it's wrong and it's totally separate from Japan and Japanese culture. (snip) I think the biggest reason the Yakuza doesn't want foreigners inside is more about power protection than anything else. If a foreigner got pissed and a bundle of midgets (sorry for the pun) came after him, he'd knock about 4 of them out cold, all would be in the hospital, their pinkie fingers would get bolted, the place gets shutdown.....that's the score.
It has nothing to do with the women. The Japanese women love foreigners.
(snip)
As for "trying" to get serviced inside a Japanese establishment, it's the same as fishing. Send an email in honorific Japanese and one that bites will take you in under a reservation. No sweat. I did it, it worked, I got the best looking girl of all, I left, they gave me a ride. They knew, no one was getting punched in the nose with me.
(snip)
Gyaos.
All of your points are valid and true, however, regarding separating the industry from Japan, I'm a little confused. I know Japanese ladies hate Japanese men, in general. This is pretty obvious. But, how many Japanese ladies are in the sex business to meet guys? I would guess almost zero. They are in the business to make money, period. Meeting foreigners is done through other processes. Making money is done by using the Yakuza and their businesses to hustle customers for them.
Regarding four punks getting the shit knocked out of themselves by some big foreigner, I agree with that but since the national police are complicit I don't think getting shutdown is going to be an issue, unless someone gets killed or some politician is making a show of things.
I still believe that the tencho working at the time has much latitude. I know shops where I'm welcome by one guy but not by the other. I never give up the guy who lets me in so I just leave. What goes there?
I've been reading this thread and it's very interesting. Here's my take.
First you have to separate the Japanese sex industry from Japan. Because it's operated by the Yakuza, who cares if they don't allow foreigners into their establishments, or even worse, a foreigner needs a sponsor (i.e.: a Japanese male) to vouch to get in. We all know it's wrong and it's totally separate from Japan and Japanese culture. There are plenty of places to get serviced, including KMPs (my favourite), and the Chinese. And, they do need the money, or they wouldn't be in business. I think the biggest reason the Yakuza doesn't want foreigners inside is more about power protection than anything else. If a foreigner got pissed and a bundle of midgets (sorry for the pun) came after him, he'd knock about 4 of them out cold, all would be in the hospital, their pinkie fingers would get bolted, the place gets shutdown.....that's the score.
It has nothing to do with the women. The Japanese women love foreigners. They all hate Japanese men. Even the ones married to Japanese men, hate them (because one "motto" of a Japanese man is "if you have to cheat on your wife, don't tell her", which creates the Japanese wife to cheat on her Japanese husband too...."lip, lip, lip my stockings." You mean "rip". "Yeah, "lrip my stockings.") Pick a Japanese woman off the street and say "I want you to be American". Bang, you have a wife. End of story.
As for "trying" to get serviced inside a Japanese establishment, it's the same as fishing. Send an email in honorific Japanese and one that bites will take you in under a reservation. No sweat. I did it, it worked, I got the best looking girl of all, I left, they gave me a ride. They knew, no one was getting punched in the nose with me.
I like to consider the old Bill Clinton way of getting the Japanese in line. When the Japanese car industry was not letting the Americans inside, Clinton imposed a 200% tax executive order on all Japanese cars in America. The Japanese capitulated immediately. It's the same thing. As for the Japanese taking over Bangkok and raising the prices, that's only true in some areas, but not all. There is the great Sanzanka, Akane, Sailor Moon (yet to visit the 3rd place) and other establishments that are just over the top thanks to this. Since I speak fluent Japanese, it has helped me in Bangkok 4000%! Before it was English and "nit-noi" Thai. Now with Japanese, I'm talking in "my other reality" with the girls in Bangkok. A blessing to say the least.
Oh yeah, the Japanese want to impose Japanese fluency tests to long term resident visas. Great, 90% of foreigners will be getting kicked out. Sign me up. In the end, a Japanese will go ape for any foreigner, so long as you can make Japan super rich. It's as easy as 3.14159265
Gyaos.
That's the point gentlemen. Your assessments are correct if keeping the Japanese sex industry as part of Japan. I said, separate the Japanese sex industry from Japan and I am correct. If you want a Japanese girl to service you, just pick a regular one up in an average bar. But if you gotta get laid, go to the Koreans, that's what I do. Or fly to Hong Kong and get laid in Macau. Then eventually Bangkok.
I must say, Japanese girls don't like living inside apartments the size of closets.
Gyaos.
Dire Wolf98
01-20-08, 04:41
(snip) But, how many Japanese ladies are in the sex business to meet guys? I would guess almost zero. (snip)That's probably true although my ATF girl at Roppongi Crystal married one of her customers (not me). I remember some girls at Roppongi Madonna asking some exploratory questions.
No doubt that happens but I seriously doubt that any girl gets into the business looking for a husband. She enters the business to make money.
That's probably true although my ATF girl at Roppongi Crystal married one of her customers (not me). I remember some girls at Roppongi Madonna asking some exploratory questions.
Dire Wolf98
01-20-08, 14:09
Yes, the number one motivator is money. I think my fav from Roppongi Crystal, Yukie, just stumbled across the man of her dreams at the shop (or, at least that's what two other girls at Crystal told me). Without a doubt, Yukie was one of the most attractive Fuzoku girls I have ever met anywhere (that includes BKK).
I met many girls who used the Fuzoku business to supplement their income or to fund their future businesses. I met at least one Ronin, who was working until she took her next round of entrance exams for the university of her choice.
I met one girl, Julie, who told me that she was working at Madoona Roppongi for the solo purpose of being able to buy a very nice kimono for seijin no hi. And, one week after seijin no hi, Julie was no longer at the shop.
No doubt that happens but I seriously doubt that any girl gets into the business looking for a husband. She enters the business to make money.
Azure Knight
01-21-08, 01:46
I don't think you can say "separate the sex industry" from Japan because it's a part of Japan. It's a very big part. Much like many things in Japan, it operates on a lot of key factors - the honor system, appearance before substance, everybody knowing their role and playing it.
I don't think that foreigner exclusion is based on the Yakuza hating us. Sure, there may be a few guys out there like that, but not all. Maybe the scene is a lot different out there in Tokyo, but here in Kansai I've been able to get along pretty well with the touts once they accept me. The biggest barrier always seems to be that they fear/assume I don't know how the system works and will only cause problems. Once I show them that I have Japanese language ability, and I have experience with fuzoku, they're welcoming and friendly. Just last night, I was able to go to a new place in Kyoto just by approaching a tout in just the right manner, and on my way home I had small talk with another tout who works in the area and has seen me around over the years.
Also, not all girls love foreigners/hate Japanese. It's a mixed bag, and that holds true for the industry as well as society in general. There are girls who only want foreigners exclusively. Girls who are curious and want to give us a spin. And girls who have been influenced by all of the negative stereotypes and are put off by us. I have had experiences where the tout/mamasan was willing to let me inside but they couldn't find a girl willing to service a foreigner.
The way things work can be surprising, especially if you're used to mongering in other countries where you can't get the women and touts to stop pestering you. But its not impossible to find your foothold here, it just takes some extra work, and being willing and able to conform to Japanese preferences. Once you do, you'll find that it was worth the effort.
Dire Wolf98
01-21-08, 07:00
I feel that I succeeded through a similar approach. I applied polite persistence and would communicate the fact that I understand the system.
However, that doesn't always work because as some Japanese politely implied, or expressed, that as a gaijin I was outside the system. Therefore, knowledge etc was irrelevant.
Still, those who compare Tokyo to BKK just don't understand the situation.
. . . its not impossible to find your foothold here, it just takes some extra work, and being willing and able to conform to Japanese preferences. Once you do, you'll find that it was worth the effort.
I don't think you can say "separate the sex industry" from Japan because it's a part of Japan. It's a very big part. Much like many things in Japan, it operates on a lot of key factors - the honor system, appearance before substance, everybody knowing their role and playing it.
That's exactly right. The Japanese part of the Japanese sex industry is separate from Japan.
Gyaos.
Of course it doesn't always work. In fact, it almost never works for me. I need to really work at it and establish myself the way that AK does in Osaka. I strike out so many times compared to the times I've been successful that it's depressing to think about but it's part of the game.
Learning to accept rejection is the other part of it. I wasn't very good at it when I started and always felt bad when I was turned down. Now, I expect it and move on. When I'm not rejected it's a real reason to celebrate inside myself. If you can't take rejection or you don't have patience you're in the wrong game is what I tell people.
I feel that I succeeded through a similar approach. I applied polite persistence and would communicate the fact that I understand the system.
However, that doesn't always work because as some Japanese politely implied, or expressed, that as a gaijin I was outside the system. Therefore, knowledge etc was irrelevant.
Still, those who compare Tokyo to BKK just don't understand the situation.
Azure Knight
01-23-08, 08:29
That's exactly right. The Japanese part of the Japanese sex industry is separate from Japan.
Gyaos.
But...how? You keep saying its separate, but you haven't really elaborated on how. Except for "its operated by the yakuza", but that doesn't really explain anything.
Azure Knight
01-23-08, 08:34
Of course it doesn't always work. In fact, it almost never works for me. I need to really work at it and establish myself the way that AK does in Osaka. I strike out so many times compared to the times I've been successful that it's depressing to think about but it's part of the game.
Hey, I strike out a lot too. My success ratio is probably less than 10%, if that.
I'm seeing more success than I used to lately. Japanese ability helps a lot, plus some of these places have seen me around in the area for years, so I guess they're realized I'm not just some tourist.
I have options across the board now, so I'm fairly happy with that.
Learning to accept rejection is the other part of it. I wasn't very good at it when I started and always felt bad when I was turned down. Now, I expect it and move on. When I'm not rejected it's a real reason to celebrate inside myself. If you can't take rejection or you don't have patience you're in the wrong game is what I tell people.
This is very true. It's sort of like nampa. No matter how good your nampa is, there will be some girls who just don't buy it and you strike out. Can't let it get you down. If you nampa 100 girls in a club, you might only get 1 to want to come home with you. But, as long as you got that one its all good, right?
Because these are shops, we expect them to accept us just because we have money. That's how it should work, yet it doesn't. So its like nampa again - some places will have you, some won't. Some you have to work for. You could go to 100 shops, and only be let into one. As long as you get into the one.
Hey, I strike out a lot too. My success ratio is probably less than 10%, if that.
I'm seeing more success than I used to lately. Japanese ability helps a lot, plus some of these places have seen me around in the area for years, so I guess they're realized I'm not just some tourist.
I have options across the board now, so I'm fairly happy with that.
This is very true. It's sort of like nampa. No matter how good your nampa is, there will be some girls who just don't buy it and you strike out. Can't let it get you down. If you nampa 100 girls in a club, you might only get 1 to want to come home with you. But, as long as you got that one its all good, right?
Because these are shops, we expect them to accept us just because we have money. That's how it should work, yet it doesn't. So its like nampa again - some places will have you, some won't. Some you have to work for. You could go to 100 shops, and only be let into one. As long as you get into the one.
If your Japanese is good, you can have a success rate of 90% or more with DH agencies. And nobody sees you except the woman you request. For me, it sure beats walking the streets looking for the relative miniscule number of street-front shops that will accept you and being ignored or rejected.
But...how? You keep saying its separate, but you haven't really elaborated on how. Except for "its operated by the yakuza", but that doesn't really explain anything.
Are you denied access to a hotel in Japan? Are you denied access from Japan Airlines or ANA? Are you denied access in a restaurant in Japan, a noodle shop, a curry shop or an expensive restaurant in Ginza? How 'bout a sauna? A temple? Are there separate bathrooms for gaikokujin (remember "gaijin" is a bad word and never used at any public government establishment)? Are you denied access to a 7/11, department store, supermarket? Are you denied access at Japan's Customs and Immigration, even if your fingerprints and photo are taken? Are you denied access on any train in Japan if you buy a ticket? Do the Koreans deny you to get laid (rarely, if at all), how 'bout the Chinese or the Thais? No.
It's separate from Japan. They want it separate, let them eat it. Think with your mind, not your penis' preferences.
Gyaos.
Yes, I agree with this assessment. The Yakuza are in very close control of these places and have a lot to do with the process and policy.
Are you denied access to a hotel in Japan? Are you denied access from Japan Airlines or ANA? Are you denied access in a restaurant in Japan, a noodle shop, a curry shop or an expensive restaurant in Ginza? How 'bout a sauna? A temple? Are there separate bathrooms for gaikokujin (remember "gaijin" is a bad word and never used at any public government establishment)? Are you denied access to a 7/11, department store, supermarket? Are you denied access at Japan's Customs and Immigration, even if your fingerprints and photo are taken? Are you denied access on any train in Japan if you buy a ticket? Do the Koreans deny you to get laid (rarely, if at all), how 'bout the Chinese or the Thais? No.
It's separate from Japan. They want it separate, let them eat it. Think with your mind, not your penis' preferences.
Gyaos.
Azure Knight
01-24-08, 01:55
i actually have been denied access to some restaurants/onsens. i may get to ride the train, but japanese people are pretty reluctant to sit next to me, despite them being willing to kill each other to get a seat in any other situation. i've been on trains where drunk guys ramble about how foreigners are ruining the country and we should all be expelled (they didn't think i could understand them). i have been denied credit card/loan applications as well as apartment leases on the sole fact that i am not japanese.
we don't get denied access (for the most part) to public institutions because, well, they're public. if a convenience store tried to deny us access, you can bet we'd raise a stink and it would make national headlines. they can't even try it. but certainly, you've seen places you go into switch into "uh-oh, it's a foreigner!" mode the second you walk in. in can be as subtle as the mcdonalds employee flipping over the menu to the english side before a word has escaped your mouth. or, having store clerks fall over themselves to assist japanese customers but not really make the same effort for you. i have heard bar/restaurant owners complain about foreigners because they're the loudest, annoy the other customers, make more demands, and generally make a bigger mess. of course, being a public restaurant, they can't even dream about turning down foreigners. the only thing they can do is bear with it and complain about it later.
a big example of this is the "gaijin criminal report file", a magazine that was briefly available in some convenience stores last year...that is until the foreign community raised a huge stink about it and it was swiftly pulled.
the difference with the sex industry is that they can get away with it. first, they figure (correctly) that no foreign guy is going to make a big stink about it. after all, none of us want to be on the news saying "i got turned down when i tried to go into a sex shop!" even if we did want to complain about it...to who? the police probably wouldn't care - they know its discrimination, but the whole sex industry is sort of a touchy subject anyway, so they're not going to bother kicking up dirt when they don't have to. women who try to report getting molested/raped often just get a casual "better luck next time" from the police - why would we expect any better of a response?
i'm not saying that all restaurants and convenience stores and department stores or whatever would turn us away if given the chance. i'm just saying that the japanese go into "ack, its a foreigner!" mode when they see us. for your average shop, the worst case scenario is that we're just a difficult customer to deal with for a few minutes/hours/days. for the sex industry, we pose a much bigger risk, and as they do have the ability to turn us away, most choose to exercise it. it's really not that different at all.
why do chinese/korean sex shops so readily accept us? they don't really have a choice. while the low price may appeal to some, i think that most japanese guys prefer japanese women, not to mention that there's already passive racism/bias towards the chinese/koreans anyway. plus, chinese/koreans are in the same boat as us ultimately - foreigners. there is somewhat of a kinship in that regard.
are you denied access to a hotel in japan? are you denied access from japan airlines or ana? are you denied access in a restaurant in japan, a noodle shop, a curry shop or an expensive restaurant in ginza? how 'bout a sauna? a temple? are there separate bathrooms for gaikokujin (remember "gaijin" is a bad word and never used at any public government establishment)? are you denied access to a 7/11, department store, supermarket? are you denied access at japan's customs and immigration, even if your fingerprints and photo are taken? are you denied access on any train in japan if you buy a ticket? do the koreans deny you to get laid (rarely, if at all), how 'bout the chinese or the thais? no.
it's separate from japan. they want it separate, let them eat it. think with your mind, not your penis' preferences.
gyaos.
Azure Knight
01-24-08, 02:01
Unfortunately, DH is not really my thing for a number of reasons. The biggest being that I don't really have a place for them to deliver to.
If your Japanese is good, you can have a success rate of 90% or more with DH agencies. And nobody sees you except the woman you request. For me, it sure beats walking the streets looking for the relative miniscule number of street-front shops that will accept you and being ignored or rejected.
Unfortunately, DH is not really my thing for a number of reasons. The biggest being that I don't really have a place for them to deliver to.
But that is not an issue, considering that Japan is covered with Love Hotels.
Azure Knight
01-24-08, 10:03
Yeah...but time still is. I usually don't have that much time - honestly, every minute counts, and DH tends to use up a lot of time. Shops are much more direct. Not to mention cheaper, once you factor in the cost of the hotel and what not.
It's not that I'm not interested in DH. I have tried it a few times, only to find the girl to be nothing like what I saw on the website. That's a given for any situation, but at least in shops you can change and have your replacement relatively soon, while DH takes quite a while to get a new girl out to you.
It's just a lot of things kind of add up, and given my situation DH isn't really advantageous to me. At least not compared with my other current options anyway.
In can be as subtle as the McDonalds employee flipping over the menu to the English side before a word has escaped your mouth. Funny how in the US the "You're in America, speak English. " view is also considered racist/discriminatory. Some people complain that signs are ONLY in English and not in 2 (or more) languages. Here, when people bend over backwards to accommodate by even printing English menus to accommodate the 97% of foreigners who can't read Japanese and yet, some people consider that subtle racism.
Please don't interpret as an attack, because it's not. I too, have to "catch myself" to avoid the immediate sensation of insult when people speak worse English to me than my Japanese (quite a feat) or scramble to bring me the single tattered English menu in the place when I've already spoken to them in Japanese. However, I truly believe that generally this is out of a sense of accommodation, rather than racism. Which is more than many of my fellow Americans care to even offer many non-English speakers in my beloved homeland.
I actually have been denied access to some restaurants/onsens. I may get to ride the train, but Japanese people are pretty reluctant to sit next to me, despite them being willing to kill each other to get a seat in any other situation. I've been on trains where drunk guys ramble about how foreigners are ruining the country and we should all be expelled (they didn't think I could understand them). I have been denied credit card/loan applications as well as apartment leases on the sole fact that I am not Japanese.
Then you go to the wrong onsens and restaurants. To hell with those reluctant to sit next to you. Who cares what a drunk says? You have been denied loan applications, credit card applications and apartment leases because you are not Japanese, is that correct? What asset do you provide to Japan that no other Japanese can do and which higher ranking Japanese people pay and defend you in which you do not require these devices? You have to get these applications approved in your own home country.
This stuff exists everywhere. Japan is no different. One cannot change their own evolution, they have to change that themselves and it doesn't happen overnight. Which train do you ride where no one sits next to you? I can use the space to stretch. There are specific train cars for women only at certain times, because of dirty men. I accidentally sat in one in Osaka during the specific time-regulation and every woman in that car was glad I sat in it.
Gyaos.
Azure Knight
01-25-08, 01:58
Funny how in the US the "You're in America, speak English. " view is also considered racist/discriminatory. Some people complain that signs are ONLY in English and not in 2 (or more) languages. Here, when people bend over backwards to accommodate by even printing English menus to accommodate the 97% of foreigners who can't read Japanese and yet, some people consider that subtle racism.
Please don't interpret as an attack, because it's not. I too, have to "catch myself" to avoid the immediate sensation of insult when people speak worse English to me than my Japanese (quite a feat) or scramble to bring me the single tattered English menu in the place when I've already spoken to them in Japanese. However, I truly believe that generally this is out of a sense of accommodation, rather than racism. Which is more than many of my fellow Americans care to even offer many non-English speakers in my beloved homeland.
Yeah, it is all a matter of POV. Perhaps, if McD's clerks didn't bother to flip the menu over, there'd be foreigners complaining "why aren't they giving me the English menu? I know they have one!" Ideally though, the clerk would wait until the foreigner actually got to the register before deciding "Hey, I need to flip this menu over." Of course, that's not the case - the second I've walked into McD's, the clerk has made a spot judgement about it. And you're right, 97% of the time, the menu flip is the correct call. But that's why stereotypes suck in general, there's always that group that it doesn't apply to and end up getting incorrectly typecast.
The funny thing about McD's though, is that even with the menu flip, if you were to say "Big Mac with French Fries" the clerk, 97% of the time, would have no idea what you're saying, and you'd end up having to point to pictures , which is what you'd have to do with the Japanese menu anyway.
Hell, a lot of foreigners in Japan are guilty of this. I've known a lot of Japanese girls who speak fluent English, and they often tell me that groups of foreigners will have the most vulgar conversations on trains, thinking that since everyone else on the train is Japanese, nobody understands what they're saying. And perhaps, for 97% of the passengers, that's true.
That's the big problem with the sex industry here. The touts and tencho take one glance at us and assume a myriad of things. In some cases, those assumptions are correct, but in some cases they're not. It sucks for those of us whom the stereotype does not apply to.
For the record, I've been here for a while, so I've mostly gotten used to it. I don't let menu flips get to me anymore, and I even take my sex shop rejections in stride.
Azure Knight
01-25-08, 02:13
What asset do you provide to Japan that no other Japanese can do and which higher ranking Japanese people pay and defend you in which you do not require these devices?
And...that's my point. That's exactly what the shop tencho and mamasan and touts are thinking. It's not just a matter of "We take his money and give him service".
Like, the apartment lease thing. When I went looking for apartments, I had the ideal conditions - a job I'd been working in for awhile, Japanese people willing to co-sign for me, no debts, criminal records, anything like that. I had money that I could have just paid up front for the key money, security deposit, all that. Despite that, there were places that just didn't want to have me. The bottom line was because I was foreign. Me being foreign, they've assumed several things about me that might or might not be true - I won't be staying in Japan long term, I'm only going to be working English teacher or other base-level jobs - I'm going to be demanding if something goes wrong - I'm going to play loud music and have frequent parties - I don't really understand that much Japanese - etc. None of these things were true in my case, but perhaps they've been true for other foreigners, and these realtors were so set in their ways they couldn't see me as an exception.
It's the exact same for the sex industry. The tencho/mamasan see me, they see a foreigner, they start assuming several things about me - I don't speak Japanese - I don't understand the system - I'm going to be too rough/hard on the girl - I'm going to be demanding if things don't go my way - I probably have an STD or two - etc. None of these things were true in my case, but perhaps they've been true for other foreigners, and these tencho/mamasan are so set in their ways that they can't see me as an exception.
Which is why I disagree with you on the "you have to separate the sex industry from the rest of Japan" statement. They work on exactly the same principles. Its just that perhaps the tencho will be much direct with his arm-bar "no", rather than the long-winded and "Sumimasen" heavy explanation at the realtor's place.
And its like you say - to hell with those who don't accept us. So we go out and find a place that will and happily give them our patronage. It's just a bit harder with the sex industry because the rejections are much more frequent and disappointing.
That's not to blame Japan. The same thing exists all over the world, and we do it to foreigners in our own countries as well. It would be ideal if we could walk into any shop at will, but that's just not how it works. Thankfully, we have this site where we can report on shops and girls who will readily accept us, and hopefully with our knowing and understanding of the system, we can show them that we are viable customers and expand the number of options available to us.
[QUOTE=
Hell, a lot of foreigners in Japan are guilty of this. I've known a lot of Japanese girls who speak fluent English, and they often tell me that groups of foreigners will have the most vulgar conversations on trains, thinking that since everyone else on the train is Japanese, nobody understands what they're saying. And perhaps, for 97% of the passengers, that's true. /QUOTE]
I have experenced this stiuation where a group of guys sitting together telling each other of thier conquests recently, and not leaving out a detail, I must say I`m a monger through and through, But there is a time and place for everything and I actually switched cars, I was embarrased.
Now I don`t speak a lot of Japanese (Mainly through speaking english all day in my job) with that being said, even with my limited Japanese ability I can get my dick waxed when the need arises and I usually pick them up from internet sites and chat to them first once they have confidence I suggest a meet 50/50 score rate to date.
I live just past Yokohama so not in a main area and have had no problems with the local people, Yes been turned away from the sex shops, got in a few but usually got the well broken in ones (And some have been fun).
I have been here 6 years now, and if they don`t want my business so be it, I`m not going to lose any sleep over it, there are plenty of other places to try.
Topos
>>>To Azure Knight
I read your situation and I can only take the "Hillary Clinton" approach as to not dive into the hypothetical. Let me take the devil's advocate for a moment. They ask these questions, not necessarily out of being racist, but more out of confusion like "why does this foreigner want to live here without approval from a high ranking Japanese group arrangement that forces me to accept the future tenant? Obviously he's here for trouble, because 99.9% of the people wanting this apartment is Japanese and are documented that way. Where's his wife (Japanese)? Why isn't there one and why take an apartment here, when he can get one better elsewhere?". That's what I think it is. The country has laws and the common folk are not going to bend over backwards unless you can prove to be an Honor of Japan, an Honor of a corporation that makes it more money than any Japanese can. Then that part of Japan will take care of you. You have to be a member of a group in Japan to be accommodated. How? Either you know a large number of men and families inside a trusted community willing to take you in, on their behalf, or you find a woman, with the power to do so, that tells the rest to stand still, he passes, no exceptions.
The Japanese sex industry is separate. And frankly, I really think it's a reflection of what you're thinking which comes to your conclusions. There's no way the Yakuza versus honest hard working Japanese are working on the same principles. Maybe they practice similar culture on the visual perception, but both are complete and absolutely, mutually exclusive.
>>>To Suedehead
Yes, your point is true. But in Hawaii, it's tailored to English and Japanese. An exception to the perception. In Japan, I flip the menu back to the Japanese side. I'm there only to learn the language.....that is if you ever catch me inside a Mac-a-Doos (yuk!), which is like never.
Friendly Gaijin
01-27-08, 12:02
It would be nice if it were the other way round. Tencho sees foreigner and assumes
- He will pay over average (e.g. choose a girl for an extra 2000, buy lots of options etc)
- He will insist on playing safe
- He will be a regular costumer
- He will be friendly to the staff and the girls.
While it might take some time to change perceptions in this direction, nothing stops us from acting in this way once we get in somewhere. In the short run, that will always help to keep access next time.
And maybe even this board can help with that, by discussing not only ways to get in, but also ways to leave a good impression. Anything important I have left out in the list above?
It's the exact same for the sex industry. The tencho/mamasan see me, they see a foreigner, they start assuming several things about me - I don't speak Japanese - I don't understand the system - I'm going to be too rough/hard on the girl - I'm going to be demanding if things don't go my way - I probably have an STD or two - etc. None of these things were true in my case, but perhaps they've been true for other foreigners, and these tencho/mamasan are so set in their ways that they can't see me as an exception.
Azure Knight
01-27-08, 13:48
The Japanese sex industry is separate. And frankly, I really think it's a reflection of what you're thinking which comes to your conclusions. There's no way the Yakuza versus honest hard working Japanese are working on the same principles. Maybe they practice similar culture on the visual perception, but both are complete and absolutely, mutually exclusive.
You keep saying this, but you never say how you think its separate. Only "it's run by the yakuza!" but that doesn't explain anything. The yakuza ARE Japanese, why wouldn't they do things in a Japanese way?
The movie image and the actual yakuza are a lot different. There's a book out there, Memoirs of a Yakuza or something like that, where a former old-school yakuza guy talks about his experiences and he explains that the whole modern image of the gruff, spit-in-your-face yakuza is pretty far from the actual truth of it. The yakuza are just like any Japanese, the only thing that separates them is that they make their living in the underground. The methods aren't all that different.
I guess you don't read the Kansai thread, but there I posted about a tencho I met earlier this week who took a liking to me, and we talked about a variety of things. He told me that the primary reasons why we foreigners don't get accepted into sex shops are much of what I've said before - foreigner doesn't understand Japanese, doesn't understand the system, might bring the whole thing down. And this is a fear that's present in both tencho/mamasan as well as the girls themselves (I can confirm this, there have been a number of times where the tencho was OK with me, but he couldn't find a girl willing to service me).
The biggest problem we have to overcome is the stereotype. Foreigners can be selfish and demanding - these are two traits that really don't work in the sex industry here. My new tencho friend also said this to me, which I think is relevant here -
Turns out he's also the landlord for an apartment building where many foreign residents reside in Osaka. He explains it can be difficult, because foreigners have selfish requests. "I'll get a call at 3AM...someone's air conditioner broke, come and fix it. But, y'know...it's 3AM man! What can I do at 3AM? If I don't do things the way they want it, they can get pretty angry." He also explains that this is a reason why its tough for foreigners to break into the sex industry. "They're pretty big...I mean, I'm not small myself, but nobody wants to be threatened. They always say "yakuza, yakuza"...whatever. At the end of the day, we're just trying to make our living."
You keep saying this, but you never say how you think its separate. Only "it's run by the yakuza!" but that doesn't explain anything. The yakuza ARE Japanese, why wouldn't they do things in a Japanese way?
Well, you obviously don't want to understand the reasoning, which is probably why you are refused. If you sit and think about it, maybe get re-educated in the Japanese language and culture, I mean deep Japan and certainly not the movies, you might, just might, make it to the Geisha level, but with a lot of serious, long term, convincing. The only way to see that is with James Bond's "You Only Live Twice" at the moment with your case. Bird doesn't make nest in bare tree.
Best of success with your mongering, I like your reviews. Keep 'em coming! Someone will let you in, maybe someday. ;)
Gyaos.
AK:
Your view is very naive for someone who lives in Japan. Study honne and tatemae. What you see and hear is not what is actually happening. Gyaos is getting frustrated because you are having a difficult time understanding. We are guests and visitors and will never become Japanese. Never. Not even close. It doesn't matter how much you learn the language, culture and behavior. We will never be accepted as one of them, so get used to it. You can learn the language, learn some customs and nuance but you will never ever get the opportunity to be accepted as a Japanese person would be. Never. Never. Never.
The Yakuza are irrelevant. The fact that the Yakuza controls the sex industry only reinforces the reality that we will never be accepted. The Yakuza are the most conservative faction in the business world. I'm not sure where you're from but where I come from, "conservative" means what it means.
Regarding overcoming the stereotype, you can do this but you will never overcome the fact that you are not one of them. They don't mind you doing someone else's daughter but they do mind if you try to do their daughter.
You keep saying this, but you never say how you think its separate. Only "it's run by the yakuza!" but that doesn't explain anything. The yakuza ARE Japanese, why wouldn't they do things in a Japanese way?
The movie image and the actual yakuza are a lot different. There's a book out there, Memoirs of a Yakuza or something like that, where a former old-school yakuza guy talks about his experiences and he explains that the whole modern image of the gruff, spit-in-your-face yakuza is pretty far from the actual truth of it. The yakuza are just like any Japanese, the only thing that separates them is that they make their living in the underground. The methods aren't all that different.
I guess you don't read the Kansai thread, but there I posted about a tencho I met earlier this week who took a liking to me, and we talked about a variety of things. He told me that the primary reasons why we foreigners don't get accepted into sex shops are much of what I've said before - foreigner doesn't understand Japanese, doesn't understand the system, might bring the whole thing down. And this is a fear that's present in both tencho/mamasan as well as the girls themselves (I can confirm this, there have been a number of times where the tencho was OK with me, but he couldn't find a girl willing to service me).
The biggest problem we have to overcome is the stereotype. Foreigners can be selfish and demanding - these are two traits that really don't work in the sex industry here. My new tencho friend also said this to me, which I think is relevant here -
Azure Knight
01-28-08, 02:22
Trust me, I know we will never, ever become Japanese. That's Rule #1 of living here. I don't even particularly want to be Japanese. Nor should we try to be Japanese. I believe this actually works against us foreigners in nampa for a variety of reasons.
So, all things considered, we are going to face rejection quite a bit in this industry. Its unfortunate, but that's just how things work here. The trick is, how to gain access to places not as a foreigner trying to be Japanese, but as a foreigner. As a foreigner, the tencho and mamasan have pre-conceived notions about us, and for many of them, it doesn't matter how well we speak Japanese or how low we bow, those notions will never break.
OTOH, there are places and girls who do readily accept us, perhaps even prefer us. And then there are places that ordinarily wouldn't...but perhaps with enough convincing, they might be willing to take a risk with us. Of course, these places are very few compared to all the places that just deny us without a second thought - maybe 10% at best.
In terms of the industry, I perhaps have the hardest time - being large, black, and intimidating on first sight (I really try not to be). My rejections far, far outweigh my successes. But I do have successes, so that's enough for me. I also have gained access to some places that initially weren't interested in me. I'm not saying that this is a norm, just that its possible, is all. I think we're all basically on the same page here, just looking at it from different angles.
The trick is, how to gain access to places not as a foreigner trying to be Japanese, but as a foreigner. As a foreigner, the tencho and mamasan have pre-conceived notions about us, and for many of them, it doesn't matter how well we speak Japanese or how low we bow, those notions will never break. As I think was stated earlier, if we give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that the reason that foreigners are denied entry is because they believe that it only takes "1 bad foreigner" to fuck up their racket, then no matter how nice an engaging we are, they'd rather not take the risk when given a choice. Again, one way of "fucking it up" is if he believes that the appearance of a foreigner will alienate the existing clientele (could be wrong, but too risky to test)---which would be terrible for business.
Look at it this way, the guy running the joint (Yakuza or not) would rather be CEO of a large corporation (or whatever high-paying profession you'd care to assume), but since that option isn't currently available to him, this is the highest-paying gig he can find. The next job (especially for Yakuzas) after this (if he fucks it up) would at best get him 1/2 the pay and possibly he could be facing a large debt or a lot of pain.
No offense (to you or me), but if that were my set of circumstances, I wouldn't let the 1 gaijin out of ever 200 clients in either.
Many of these concerns of the shop owner are alleviated in the DH format--which is perhaps why the rejection rate seems lower.
Don't get me wrong, racism is alive and well in Japan for sure, but you can't blame a guy who (unfortunately for him) has to make a livelihood this way being apprehensive about potentially fucking it up.
I was addressing something else. You were confused about a Yakuza controlled business being different from Japan and normal Japanese. The principal difference is that they are far more conservative than normal Japanese businessmen.
I spent a great deal of time in the US deep south on business, mainly Atlanta, Mobile and Baton Rouge. Even though institutionalized segregation is illegal and no longer practiced, it is alive and well in other forms. One bowling alley might be lily white while another one across town is only patronized by blacks and hispanics. The contrasts are striking to an outsider. In those venues the whites know their place and the blacks know their place. As an outsider I needed to be aware of this because it could get me hurt or killed if I walk into a hip-hop club and expect service. In a way, these businesses are not mainstream US, they are part of an older time. You won't see too much of this on the east or west coast of the US. Japan is mired in the latent and hidden segregation of the deep south.
There is separation.
Trust me, I know we will never, ever become Japanese. That's Rule #1 of living here. I don't even particularly want to be Japanese. Nor should we try to be Japanese. I believe this actually works against us foreigners in nampa for a variety of reasons.
So, all things considered, we are going to face rejection quite a bit in this industry. Its unfortunate, but that's just how things work here. The trick is, how to gain access to places not as a foreigner trying to be Japanese, but as a foreigner. As a foreigner, the tencho and mamasan have pre-conceived notions about us, and for many of them, it doesn't matter how well we speak Japanese or how low we bow, those notions will never break.
OTOH, there are places and girls who do readily accept us, perhaps even prefer us. And then there are places that ordinarily wouldn't...but perhaps with enough convincing, they might be willing to take a risk with us. Of course, these places are very few compared to all the places that just deny us without a second thought - maybe 10% at best.
In terms of the industry, I perhaps have the hardest time - being large, black, and intimidating on first sight (I really try not to be). My rejections far, far outweigh my successes. But I do have successes, so that's enough for me. I also have gained access to some places that initially weren't interested in me. I'm not saying that this is a norm, just that its possible, is all. I think we're all basically on the same page here, just looking at it from different angles.
>>>To Azure Knight
The country has laws and the common folk are not going to bend over backwards unless you can prove to be an Honor of Japan, an Honor of a corporation that makes it more money than any Japanese can. Then that part of Japan will take care of you. You have to be a member of a group in Japan to be accommodated. How? Either you know a large number of men and families inside a trusted community willing to take you in, on their behalf, or you find a woman, with the power to do so, that tells the rest to stand still, he passes, no exceptions.
The Japanese sex industry is separate. And frankly, I really think it's a reflection of what you're thinking which comes to your conclusions. There's no way the Yakuza versus honest hard working Japanese are working on the same principles. Maybe they practice similar culture on the visual perception, but both are complete and absolutely, mutually exclusive.
>
The sex industry does operate like Japanese businesses in many respects though. The government sets rules, police inforce some of them, and they have their own associations (not just yakuza ones). I have been friendly with some touts and gotten serviced, and been turned away at other times because the boss is present and he follows the association's rule of "no gaijin". Nothing to do with the girls working or the customers there at the time (it was early afternoon and business was slow). I found the many establishments follow the rule in Kansai, but there are some who are not members, or ignore it altogether. The DH biz is this way, since no one knows who is being serviced behind the green door.
I don't even particularly want to be Japanese.
With my eyebrows going "up, up, up", do I get the indication you would be Japanese if you could? LOL.
Look at it this way, the guy running the joint (Yakuza or not) would rather be CEO of a large corporation (or whatever high-paying profession you'd care to assume)
Yes. And this is where the focus should be if you want a Japanese girl. Go to the large corporation.
Good luck, all!
Gyaos.
Well this might seem like an odd question, but I'd like to get your take on it. I'm an older American gent 56 years old. 168 height, a little hefty around the waste, in good health (I jog every day) and I am still super charged by these Japanese ladies. Perhaps cause of their innocent (though aren't) looks, the way they dress etc. My Japanese is O. K. Anyway, I sometimes put ads in papers (Japan) and get responses that they like my ad but when I tell them my age, I usually do right off the bat. I'm not going to make some bull story about being someone I'm not. I've had my share through the years. But, it seems to be getting more and more difficult to get sex. But, my sexual drive still seems to grow stronger and stronger. Recently the few sex (Soapland-Kawasaki) I've been to are cheap and I end up with some big girls. One was really fat but she was good sexually. Almost came three times in one hour. I could imagine if she were like the ones on the trains etc. So, just wondering about the age thing. Certainly I feel as good as when I was in my 20's or 30's. Probably better, more disciplined. I did get ripped off in Shinjuku by this Euro? Tout who brought me to a place for ¥16, 000 for one hour, but after the Chinese chick brought me into the room and started sucking my cock, she wanted more money or she'd stop. But, I said, "The guy at the front desk said everything was included. "! And she still pretended to be a Japanese, but I knew she wasn't. Well, it was my own fault. I also tried this place:
http://www.l-s66.com/index.php the girls online are really good looking and hot! But they wouldn't accept gaijin, though originally I read somewhere on this site that some guys did go there a year or two ago.
So, I'll close with this, if anyone has any good advice or knows of any worthwhile places, let me know! Thanks happy hunting.
XRc
Well this might seem like an odd question, but I'd like to get your take on it. I'm an older American gent 56 years old. 168 height, a little hefty around the waste, in good health (I jog every day) and I am still super charged by these Japanese ladies. Perhaps cause of their innocent (though aren't) looks, the way they dress etc. My Japanese is O. K. Anyway, I sometimes put ads in papers (Japan) and get responses that they like my ad but when I tell them my age, I usually do right off the bat. I'm not going to make some bull story about being someone I'm not. I've had my share through the years. But, it seems to be getting more and more difficult to get sex. But, my sexual drive still seems to grow stronger and stronger. Recently the few sex (Soapland-Kawasaki) I've been to are cheap and I end up with some big girls. One was really fat but she was good sexually. Almost came three times in one hour. I could imagine if she were like the ones on the trains etc. So, just wondering about the age thing. Certainly I feel as good as when I was in my 20's or 30's. Probably better, more disciplined. I did get ripped off in Shinjuku by this Euro? Tout who brought me to a place for ¥16, 000 for one hour, but after the Chinese chick brought me into the room and started sucking my cock, she wanted more money or she'd stop. But, I said, "The guy at the front desk said everything was included. "! And she still pretended to be a Japanese, but I knew she wasn't. Well, it was my own fault. I also tried this place:
http://www.l-s66.com/index.php the girls online are really good looking and hot! But they wouldn't accept gaijin, though originally I read somewhere on this site that some guys did go there a year or two ago.
So, I'll close with this, if anyone has any good advice or knows of any worthwhile places, let me know! Thanks happy hunting.XRc
Have you actually read this board much? Not only are your questions vague, but they're all answered here. Of course, for nampa, age is more of a factor (especially if you want to go to bars/clubs where you're competing with much younger "hunks"), but even then, not nearly as much as it would be in a Western country; for pay it's nearly irrelevant.
I'm also in my late 50s and have been doing both for the past 5+ years with women (nampa and longer-term dating as young as mid-30s and P4P as young as 18). There have been only a handful of cases in which the woman acted at all disgusted, repulsed or hesitant, and then who knows if it was age, gaijin status, or my face that put her off. I've had many 18-23 year old P4P women treat me for all the world like a boyfriend w/lots of hugs, kisses, holding hands, sweet talk, etc.
Maybe no other place in the world where a man's age for sex is so irrelevant as in Japan. Or where an older guy can be made to feel decades younger. So what, exactly, is your question?
Well this might seem like an odd question, but I'd like to get your take on it. I'm an older American gent 56 years old. 168 height, a little hefty around the waste, in good health (I jog every day) and I am still super charged by these Japanese ladies. Perhaps cause of their innocent (though aren't) looks, the way they dress etc. My Japanese is O. K. Anyway, I sometimes put ads in papers (Japan) and get responses that they like my ad but when I tell them my age, I usually do right off the bat. I'm not going to make some bull story about being someone I'm not. I've had my share through the years. But, it seems to be getting more and more difficult to get sex. But, my sexual drive still seems to grow stronger and stronger. Recently the few sex (Soapland-Kawasaki) I've been to are cheap and I end up with some big girls. One was really fat but she was good sexually. Almost came three times in one hour. I could imagine if she were like the ones on the trains etc. So, just wondering about the age thing. Certainly I feel as good as when I was in my 20's or 30's. Probably better, more disciplined. I did get ripped off in Shinjuku by this Euro? Tout who brought me to a place for ¥16, 000 for one hour, but after the Chinese chick brought me into the room and started sucking my cock, she wanted more money or she'd stop. But, I said, "The guy at the front desk said everything was included. "! And she still pretended to be a Japanese, but I knew she wasn't. Well, it was my own fault. I also tried this place:
http://www.l-s66.com/index.php the girls online are really good looking and hot! But they wouldn't accept gaijin, though originally I read somewhere on this site that some guys did go there a year or two ago.
So, I'll close with this, if anyone has any good advice or knows of any worthwhile places, let me know! Thanks happy hunting.XRc
Have you actually read this board much? Not only are your questions vague, but they're all answered here. Of course, for nampa, age is more of a factor (especially if you want to go to bars/clubs where you're competing with much younger "hunks"), but even then, not nearly as much as it would be in a Western country; for pay it's nearly irrelevant.
I'm also in my late 50s and have been doing both for the past 5+ years with women--nampa and longer-term dating--as young as mid-30s and P4P as young as 18. There have been only a handful of cases in which the woman acted at all disgusted, repulsed or hesitant, and then who knows if it was age, gaijin status, or my face that put her off. I've had many 18-23 year old P4P women treat me for all the world like a boyfriend w/lots of hugs, kisses, holding hands, sweet talk, etc.
Maybe no other place in the world where a man's age for sex is so irrelevant as in Japan. Or where an older guy can be made to feel decades younger. So what, exactly, is your question?
Azure Knight
02-08-08, 08:56
i found a message board for girls who work in the red light districts of kansai. its a fascinating look into what the girls of the industry think. there are some varied threads - girls who fall for their customers (it happens!), dealing with dirty customers, if they have sex outside of work, etc. anyway, i found a thread about us foreigners. as i thought it was relevant to us, i translated it and will post it up here. this is coming straight from the working girls, and i've tried to give as accurate a translation as possible.
i don't want to start up a debate or anything, just thought some of you might like to see what some of the girls are thinking about us.
the title of the thread is "foreign customers (>o<)"
i work in matsushima, and we get plenty of foreign customers.
the shop manager says "it's been decided by our organization that foreigners aren't allowed".
but for chinese and koreans, its hard to tell just by looking at them, and then when they come up
their speech is all broken and they don't understand anything. i try to turn them down, but then they
don't understand japanese and they leave mad at me.
also, the mamasan at my shop is pretty old, so she doesn't understand and doesn't properly turn them down!
if the organization is going to say no, then i'l like them to at least write a note in english, chinese, and korean
saying we don't accept them.
everyone, when you have a foreign customer, how do you turn them down?
once, a white guy game to my shop. the mamasan said "you're too big, so its a no-go". the foreigner said "i get that a lot" while smiling and left. (-_-; )
"is that something to brag about?!" i thought.
i used to work at tobita. i had a white guy customer once and i was surprised by his size! it hurt at first, but then it started to feel good and i passed out (lol). but its best to turn them down...
i'd like our manager to write "no foreigners allowed!" (in korean and chinese)...
i don't like turning them down in the room, and its a waste of time.
there are customers who will make you feel nice if you accept them. surprising.
why are foreigners coming?
don't they have sightseeing to do?
2 or 3 guys were wandering around,
and if you look closely at them, you figure it out.
something about them is just different.
Ak - this is an invaluable contribution - to actually hear how the girls think about us... I am sure many of us would be surprised at what is surprising to them about us. Thanks and keep it coming!
I found a message board for girls who work in the red light districts of Kansai. Its a fascinating look into what the girls of the industry think. There are some varied threads - girls who fall for their customers (it happens!), dealing with dirty customers, if they have sex outside of work, etc. Anyway, I found a thread about us foreigners. As I thought it was relevant to us, I translated it and will post it up here. This is coming straight from the working girls, and I've tried to give as accurate a translation as possible.
I don't want to start up a debate or anything, just thought some of you might like to see what some of the girls are thinking about us.
The title of the thread is "Foreign Customers (>o<)"
I read a bit of that same message board AK translated. My Japanese isn't good enough to translate it and I miss any subtlety, but I got the basics. (AK: Thanks for the various translations you just did.)
I found that board really depressing. There's a lot of discussion of the financial difficulties that drive them into the business, and various fucked up experiences they've had.
I found a message board for girls who work in the red light districts of Kansai. Its a fascinating look into what the girls of the industry think. There are some varied threads - girls who fall for their customers (it happens!), dealing with dirty customers, if they have sex outside of work, etc. Anyway, I found a thread about us foreigners. As I thought it was relevant to us, I translated it and will post it up here. This is coming straight from the working girls, and I've tried to give as accurate a translation as possible.
I don't want to start up a debate or anything, just thought some of you might like to see what some of the girls are thinking about us.
The title of the thread is "Foreign Customers (>o<)"
Some of us read Japanese. Can you just post the link?
The link is in the Kansai thread.
The link is in the Kansai thread.
Can`t see it. Message number?
AussieGaigin
02-10-08, 07:45
Can`t see it. Message number?
#513 in the Kansai thread
This report deals primarily with 3 visits to a deai cafe in Sapporo.
Since I don't recall seeing much on this forum about deai cafes I have posted it in the general section, because I think much of it can be generalised. Indeed my experience in Sapporo last week does not contradict anything I saw in Nagoya a few months back.
A few months ago I checked out a deai cafe in Nagoya, but the reality is that when I was in there I had not even 10,000 in my pocket so I knew nothing was going to happen there.
In Tokyo there are a lot of deai cafes, and given that I think the 5000 yen membership fee I had to pay in Nagoya is fairly standard, I've never been too keen on taking my chances with the various places I've passed by.
Last week I was in Sapporo for a few days. I figured that since there seemed to be only 1 high profile deai cafe there then it should have the best of what Sapporo has to offer.
And so it goes.
I went into the place near Norobesa. After they had confirmed that I could handle myself in Japanese and they'd given me a rules a once over, they were quite happy to take my money.
Throughout this experience I used Japanese entirely, I do no think it'd work well at all in English.
--
Here's how it worked money wise (Nagoya had the same price policy, I guess this is fairly standard):
Membership fee - 5000 one off
'being there' fee - 1000 per hour
'talk' fee - 1000 per girl
Kotsuhi (literally travel expenses, but essentially a bar fine) - 3000, 5000, or 10,000
Exactly what the 3 prices are about I am not sure, I think they are about setting the tone of how generous you plan to be. As I understood the rules this money is for the girl only, yet the establishment claimed that I was to pay this to both the girl and to them. I am quite sure they were ripping me off on this, but I simply don't have good enough Japanese to challenge them. This money does not guarantee any kind of sexual activity, it merely gets the girl out of deai cafe at which point you are effectively free to negotiate the actual deed - which is down to open negotiation between you and the girl - or not as the case may be... (see below)
--
The basic set-up is that there is a room for the punters flanked by 2 rooms behind one way mirrors which contain the girls. The guys in the punter room are essentially loitering, smoking, drinking the free soft drinks, and occasionally chatting to each other or the staff. Some of the punters seems fairly disgruntled to have a non-Japanese person in there, others were more interested in shooting the shit with me than they were in choosing a girl. The staff were generally a bit pushy towards everyone, and even more so to me, it's fair to say that they wanted my money, but they wanted as few other customers to see a gaijin in there as possible.
The girls are in something more like a manga-cafe/Internet cafe environment doing their own thing. They have these little profile cards that are on the wall in the punter room, according to which 90% of these girls are 18, 19 or 20. One girl had a star on her card where her age should have been - gee, I wonder what that means? lol
You tell the staff if you wanna talk with a girl. As I understand it the girls can't refuse this (they are there at no expense to themselves).
The pair of you then go back to a small sofa in a half-booth (much like a pink salon) to have your 'talk'.
If your talk goes well off you go.
--
As to my actual experience it was pretty mixed but mostly not good.
On my 1st visit I really didn't know what was going on.
Over the course of an hour I had 4 talks.
The 1st girl, in retrospect, was rather nice, but I wasn't sold so I kept going.
The 2nd girl, she walked in, (to the girls room) and I was like "damn I want that!". She was exactly what I was looking for, bleach blonde hair, tanned, great legs. Alas she did not feel the same, she actually seemed pissed off that in the small talk I asked her if she was a ganguro, a gyaru. In fairness I don't think she'd have gone with me even if the small talk hadn't gone badly. I think she was holding out for a guy who would dazzle her either with money or with actual dazzle - whilst most of the punters are salary-man types I did see the odd guy who was more a host type, whom I think may in fact get these girls to come with them for little or nothing (beyond the bar fine).
(For the record I am a fairly decent looking white guy who looks to be in his late 20's - I don't have a hard time getting regular dates, but I'm not a super-cool stylish dude either)
The 3rd girl, was weird and awkward, a definite no go.
The 4th girl, was fairly hot, but I think she sensed that I wasn't in a position to lay done that much money, she made some bullshit excuse about how her friend was still in the girls room and she didn't wanna leave her alone. In fact this was stupid of me. She was the friend or girl #2 I saw them enter together.
Enough, I quit and left, had some drinks and some sleep instead.
-
2nd visit.
On this occasion I observed the girls a little more carefully rather than basing things on looks alone.
I choose a nice petite girl who seemed to be studying a fairly serious text book.
She was very friendly in the chat, and happy to leave with me on the premise of going to karaoke.
She was a nice pleasant girl, a 19 year old student nurse, who acted very GFE throughout the evening.
Alas she acted very 1st date GFE.
As the hour of karaoke came to an end I fronted up to her, explained that I really didn't understand the deai cafe system, and basically said to her 'is now the time to talk about going to a love hotel, I understand there will be more money involved, that's no problem'.
To which she replied: "oh, erm, I'm not that kind of girl, you really should have asked me this back in the cafe, I'm sorry, but we aren't going to do that" >_<
After that we talked some more about how this whole scene works.
What she said was essentially that some of the girls there are basically prostitutes, and others (such as her) are basically hostesses.
She advised me that if I actually want to have sex, I should ignore the rules of the cafe and raise the issue in the 10 min talk time. In her case she said that if we met again a couple more times then sex would be more likely, but that she was honestly scared because I was a gaijin. In fairness I probably shot myself in the foot by being honest about the fact that I was only in Sapporo for a couple of days. I think she may have been more receptive if she'd viewed me as a potential repeat customer. Plus I do have a pretty big dick (19cm) and she became aware of this in the karaoke (there was a decent amount of mutual kino), and may have been genuinely scared. The end result was that nothing happened beyond a bit of kissing and touching, she netted 3000 yen for spending 2-3 hours with me, certainly don't seem to be worth her while. I was somewhat frustrated, and also wanting to test if she really wasn't that kind of girl lol As such I offered her 10,000 yen to give me a hand-job - a very generous amount. She refused, we parted ways. Not a total waste of time, but certainly irritating.
-
3rd visit
It was do or die time.
There was a girl who had been there both of my previous visits. Not the hottest girl there, but seemed very game on - she always sat in such a way that her panties were clearly visible, and looked generally slutty and eager.
In the talk I made 2 or 3 mins of small talk, then said that I was leaving town in a few hours and wanted to play before I left, she asked where I wanted to play, I said in a love hotel, she said how much, I said 20,000 yen, she said OK, off we went.
She led me to a cheap but nice enough love hotel. On the way she asked me if it's true that gaijin were big, I said that in my case yes it was true, she seemed excited about this. Once we got in the hotel she got undressed and asked to see my dick, and after remarking at the size, she grabbed me by the dick and led me into the shower. After a quick shower we got straight down to it. I asked if I could video her blowing me, she refused (fair enough). When we started fucking she seemed genuinely into it and was squeezing and grinding in such a fashion that I actually didn't last very long. After laying there for a few mins we headed back to the shower. In the shower I got hard again and she said "can you fuck me again?" ^o^ as I was fucking her she urged me to go harder, faster, and deeper, and as near as I can tell she actually did cum. Having only cum a short time before I wasn't about to cum again so we went back to the shower. In the shower she asked me if I wanted to cum on her face, of course I did! But in fairness I think she was just being polite, because after 5 mins of me whacking it hard trying to make it happen she seemed to grow impatient and I could tell that it would take some coaxing to get a 2nd load out of me and frankly I did have a train to catch so I gave up. After we got out of the shower I decided to be cheeky and told her that I would cum again if we did anal (which I could tell she did from time to time by checking out her butt when I was doing her doggy style). she said it would hurt too much, and I didn't feel like pressing the issue (but I'm sure if I had other sessions with her it would be acceptable). We got dressed, walked back towards the deai cafe and parted ways. She went back to the cafe, I went and got my train back to Tokyo. Oh, as we were getting dressed I asked her if 20,000 was a normal amount, she was very candid and said that it was a bit low, but that for one thing she had never been with a gaijin and was curious to try, and for another thing she was flat broke and not in a position to refuse, because although she went to the deai cafe almost everyday she didn't always get a match. She said most girls would expect 30,000 to 50,000.
-
My overall feeling is that deai cafes have a lot of potential for foreigners who speak at least reasonable Japanese.
There is certainly the scope to waste a fair bit of money and time too.
I would advise against doing what I did - A: doing this when you are visiting a place and B: telling the girls that you are only passing through.
Find one locally, only the girls who are either hard-up or out and out prostitutes will be receptive to 1 time only customers.
I think if you actually had a mind to find a cute girl for an ongoing 2-3 times a month encounter this would be a pretty good place to go. I'd imagine that if you treat a girl right from one of these places it will become progressively less expensive, and likely reach the point where money stops being openly discussed.
I can easily see myself exploring the Tokyo deai cafes a little more after this.
I am good at being persistent, and I can already see a bleached blonde, tanned, light at the end of the tunnel.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
I guess the Japanese message boards don't have access to vbulletin software yet. Their message board software are from the dark ages of the Internet, I've noticed.....all based by cell-phone postings. Hmmmm.....just reassures myself that these girls can be swept away if you know what to do.
Great link AK. Thanks!
Anyone here post on the board as a "female" loving foreigners?
Gyaos.
I guess the Japanese message boards don't have access to vbulletin software yet. Their message board software are from the dark ages of the Internet, I've noticed.....all based by cell-phone postings. Hmmmm.....just reassures myself that these girls can be swept away if you know what to do.
Great link AK. Thanks!
Anyone here post on the board as a "female" loving foreigners?
Gyaos.
Well, in Japan is cellphone, anyway...
Personally, I was surprised that some girls brought up the size issue. I thought that was just a guy thing, bragging about whose is bigger. But no, some girls really seem to have an issue with it. Fascinating.
Two by Four
02-11-08, 09:46
Denkicash...your last post is an excellent and useful contirbution. Thanks
2X4
This report deals primarily with 3 visits to a deai cafe in Sapporo.
I am good at being persistent, and I can already see a bleached blonde, tanned, light at the end of the tunnel.
EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Denkicash...your last post is an excellent and useful contirbution. Thanks
2X4
I agree with 2 X 4 great reading, But fare my Japanese is not good enough to get in
However your reactions from the girls is interesting, sometimes being bold pays off and you hit a home run.
I have done a lot of my mongering through websites then getting then to private chat on MSN sometimes I`m bold if I feel I can get her.
However it can go wrong, But have had a few good hits, (Small head is happy).
New report to follow soon when I resize the photo`s I will post in the photo gallery.
Cheers Topos
This report deals primarily with 3 visits to a deai cafe in Sapporo.
Excellent report. I have considered teleclubs (basically a place where you pay a fee and wait for a call), but figured I might spend hours on my ass doing nothing.
The deai club is much different apparently, and for someone who lives in the neighborhood it could be a regular source.
On the other hand, while 30,000 is OK for a hottie, 50,000 is a bit steep, and not all of us are 20-somethings who can get a young man's discount.
Asian Travels
02-12-08, 02:40
I found a message board for girls who work in the red light districts of Kansai. Its a fascinating look into what the girls of the industry think. There are some varied threads - girls who fall for their customers (it happens!), dealing with dirty customers, if they have sex outside of work, etc. Anyway, I found a thread about us foreigners. As I thought it was relevant to us, I translated it and will post it up here. This is coming straight from the working girls, and I've tried to give as accurate a translation as possible.
I don't want to start up a debate or anything, just thought some of you might like to see what some of the girls are thinking about us.
The title of the thread is "Foreign Customers (>o<)"
Very interesting AK. I think you'll have enough material for a book in a while...
The common theme here is the girls don't care that we are foreign, they care about wasting time with us when they know there won't be a sale. Also, it is likely that the majority of foreign customers are Asian men, not Western, so it might be presumptive to think they are referring to ISG members.
Azure Knight
02-12-08, 03:43
I was tempted, but I figure I'd get found out one way or another. The board is supposed to be for the girls only - I saw a thread that a Japanese guy posted in and everybody jumped on him - so I figure a foreigner posing as a girl would be even worse.
I'm content to just sit back and observe. It's better if they don't think we're watching.
There is a guy's version of the board, but I don't think its as interesting, and most stuff doesn't really apply to us.
Anyone here post on the board as a "female" loving foreigners?
Azure Knight
02-12-08, 04:01
As far as I can tell, its been decided by the organization/community that foreigners won't be allowed. Most girls are content to abide by that rule. In the case of Asian men though it can be hard to tell.
I wouldn't say thought that the girls in general don't care that we're foreign. I've personally walked down those streets, and I've overheard some girls saying in reference to me "No way! I don't want him as a customer!" I've also gone to a few shops were the mamasan was OK with me but she couldn't find a girl willing to perform.
If you read around the board though, or in my case I've actually talked in person to a few girls about it - they have quite a few Japanese guys that they despise as customers. The difference here is that they don't have the luxury of being able to refuse the Japanese guy no matter how repulsive he might be.
Despite it having been decided that foreigners are prohibited, there are a few places where we are allowed access. Sometimes, the girl likes or even prefers foreigners, and tells the mamasan to call out to any (Western) foreigner that she might see. Sometimes the mamasan herself is foreigner friendly. The strategy most of us use is to go on a slow day - a foreigner sale is better than no sale at all, right?
Its lame in the sense that our options are severely limited. I can appreciate though the aspect of being able to go to a place where I'm actually wanted.
The common theme here is the girls don't care that we are foreign, they care about wasting time with us when they know there won't be a sale. Also, it is likely that the majority of foreign customers are Asian men, not Western, so it might be presumptive to think they are referring to ISG members.
I was tempted, but I figure I'd get found out one way or another. The board is supposed to be for the girls only - I saw a thread that a Japanese guy posted in and everybody jumped on him - so I figure a foreigner posing as a girl would be even worse.
I have seem an ignorant twit post a message in English on one of the Japanese Deai sites, and people were all over him telling him to feck off.
I am a gaijin myself, but I certainly also felt that is message disturbed the atmosphere there. I don`t know how explain it to the non-residents here, but there is certain innocent tone to Japanese sex messages that simply gets wiped out when start talking about it in English.
If you posted in Japanese, there would be less of that of course, but you`d still stand out like a turd in the living room. I really recommend to keep a low profile and play without making waves.
（前略）
If you posted in Japanese, there would be less of that of course, but you`d still stand out like a turd in the living room. I really recommend to keep a low profile and play without making waves.
Keeping a low profile in the beginning is certainly a good idea, but posting in Japanese isn't that hard. Keep it short, that's what the Japanese also do on most boards. Copy the style of the board, add Asian style smileys, or those 携帯-type little pictures, etc., and nobody will notice.
I posted as a girl on some deai boards, initially just cutting and pasting parts of other posts, because I wanted to know how Japanese men start our their mails when they try to pick up girls from deai boards, or how they approach women who post a clearly professional ad.
It worked quite well and I could learn some usefull expressions in this way.... ^.^
Azure Knight
02-13-08, 03:05
I used to frequent a webcam site (EX Shot for those who know it). It has both English and Japanese interfaces; I used to use the English out of preference, but one day a girl tipped me off that the girls get an indicator light that warns them that the incoming person is on the English interface and probably a foreigner. I decided to start using the Japanese interface, and even to pretend I was a Japanese guy, just to see how different my experience would be.
The site allows for users to join in on a chat already in session, so at first I did that to see how the guys posted - manner of speaking, language used, etc. After enough studying, I started my own chats. I used a name that could be Japanese or foreign, and just never made mention of what nationality I was. Since I was on the Japanese interface, most girls just assumed I was Japanese, and I never really gave them any reason to think otherwise. One woman actually had a long discussion with me about foreign guys, and how she'd gotten into watching black-on-Japanese porn lately. I was so amused by this, I had to share my secret with her at the end of the chat. She was shocked, and was convinced I was just pulling her leg - I had to activate my own camera to prove to her that I wasn't Japanese after all!
I've chatted with quite a few women on the site, and except for the one I told, they all think I'm Japanese. However, they note that I'm different from other guys, probably because I don't just go in and bark orders to her about what to take off and when to stick what where. One woman even expressed a willingness to meet me in person should I ever make it to her neck of the woods.
I do think that working with the system can produce great results. Nino's right, too many guys will just blitz in and be like "who wants free English lessons with a big-cock foreigner!" and it sticks out and just doesn't work as well. That doesn't mean hide your foreignness, of course. But just play along with the game and ler her realize that you're not quite like all the other guys on the site. Its a powerful tool when used right.
However, in the case of the message board we've been discussing, that really is a girls-only board; Japanese guys who post there get slammed. I not recommend posting there at all, not even pretending to be a Japanese girl. Its better for us to just sit back and observe. Besides, if they don't know we're watching, they'll probably speak more freely.
I saw a bunch of these for sale in the AV shop the other day. Three thousand and up for a set number of minutes. The sign suggested a deai would be occuring quickly if I called the number (no dictionary in the shop, so a lot was a bit fuzzy on meaning).
Anyone used one of these? Is it really for dates, or just phone sex?
My guess is it connects you with local DH girls who chat with you and then set up a meeting. But perhaps it connects you with freelancers who get paid for the minutes they chat you up?
Any info would be great.
I posted as a girl on some deai boards, initially just cutting and pasting parts of other posts, because I wanted to know how Japanese men start our their mails when they try to pick up girls from deai boards, or how they approach women who post a clearly professional ad.
It worked quite well and I could learn some usefull expressions in this way.... ^.^
Eeek! To think that I might have send personal messages to some big, hairy male gaijin, thinking I was talking to a girl...
I have just lost my appetite.
Eeek! To think that I might have send personal messages to some big, hairy male gaijin, thinking I was talking to a girl...
I have just lost my appetite.
As long as you didn`t show him your cam, you will be alright.
Hahahaahahaahahaha
Man what a scary thought!!
Topos
May I ask, are there any Western men out there who have lived in both China and Japan? If so, could you please give a sense of how finding non-pro action is different in Japan vs. China?
As for me, I've lived in China for about 5 years, so I'm very familiar with things here. And I know nothing about Japan. Although one might hear stories about how much freebie action is available in China (and I've certainly had more in China than in the U.S.), my feeling is that the options are limited. In my experience, if you're a married Western man (and not particularly well-connected in high-level social circles, e.g., maybe you're an English teacher or a non-managerial employee of a company), your non-pro options are:
- find older and less attractive ladies
- be a sugar daddy (find an attractive young girl and pay her)
- pretend you're single and want a serious relationship
I tend to take the 1st option, since I don't like the others. There are exceptions, I've had a few cuties, just once in a long while. I'm a quiet guy, so I don't do bars and discos, maybe coffee shops, online personals, and occasionally approaching girls on the street. Hooking up with a legit massage lady works on occasion as well, but if they're pretty, most of them want a sugar daddy.
Is Japan any different?
Also, what is Nampa? From the forum, I gather it just means "pick up a girl, typically on the street, for a freebie one-night-stand the same day." While I've been lucky enough to have had this experience in China, it's very rare. What's going on in Japan that's different from China?
Thanks for any insights you can offer. I'm considering changing countries, and this will help me understand what advantages Japan offers over China (although the fact that I speak Chinese and no Japanese might limit those advantages in my case).
> If so, could you please give a sense of how finding non-pro action is >different in Japan vs. China?
Not so different, except the Chinese gal might be looking more at the economic benefits of having a Western BF vs. a local. A J-gal less so.
>but if they're pretty, most of them want a sugar daddy.
True in 90% of the cases. Some young gals do like older men (say w/in 20yrs), but most dating 50yr olds are thinking sugar daddy.
>Also, what is Nampa? "pick up a girl, typically on the street, for a >freebie one-night-stand the same day." While I've been lucky enough to >have had this experience in China, it's very rare. What's going on in >Japan that's different from China?
J-gals are perhaps less reserved about one night stands. That said, Nampa is not just for same-night experiences. It includes any gal you pick up. For some guys (J and Western), it can be like a sport to collect the most phones numbers, dates, GF etc...
>Japan offers over China (although the fact that I speak Chinese and no >Japanese might limit those advantages in my case).
This is the kicker. You will have FAR MORE success if you speak Japanese (unless you look like Brad Pitt).
Best to stay in China and not compete with all us pros here in Japan (LOL).
Azure Knight
02-28-08, 04:53
This is the kicker. You will have FAR MORE success if you speak Japanese (unless you look like Brad Pitt).
For me, sometimes I felt that speaking Japanese kind of hurt my chances. For a girl who is serious about dating/relationships, speaking Japanese is invaluable, but for the girls who just wanted to play around with a foreigner, it was like I lost some of my exotic appeal. Many of these girls are also looking for free English practice, so knowing you speak Japanese doesn't appeal to them.
Anyone notice a general uneasy feeling amongst the Japanese this week?
Gyaos Baltar.
For me, sometimes I felt that speaking Japanese kind of hurt my chances. For a girl who is serious about dating/relationships, speaking Japanese is invaluable, but for the girls who just wanted to play around with a foreigner, it was like I lost some of my exotic appeal. Many of these girls are also looking for free English practice, so knowing you speak Japanese doesn't appeal to them.
I can see your point and it is true for the English for Sex types.
However the pool of girls who speak English is a lot smaller than those who don't, and not speaking Japanese will hurt your Nampa %, especially if you are a good bit older than your target.
A quick review for the newbies who are too lazy to search the older posts...by no means this is written in stone, but it should give you an idea of what is out there.
Cheapest
Nampa. By a girl a drink and ask her if you can go back to her room.
Pink salons. (3,000-9,000) 15-45 minutes.
Usually cramped, girls mid-20s to 50s. BBBJ only (technique can be mediocre to outstanding).
Cheap
Chinese/Korean Este. (8,000-20,000) 30-60 minutes.
Foreign gals who are early 20s-40s. May or may not speak Japanese. Very hit and miss. Good shops are places you get laid for 10,000. Bad ones promise a 3,000 "massage" and then try to get you to fork out 20,000 for FS. CBJ more likely than BBBJ.
Street walkers. (10,000-20,000) 15 minutes.
Usually foreign gals (Thai, Chinese, Colombian) not so concerned with GFE.
Cheap/midrange
Delivery Health (DH). (10,000-20,000) 60-90min.
Usually mid-20s, can be very GFE if they like you. BBBJ assured, but FS is up to her (free or extra charge). Challenge calling up shop in Japanese. They deliver her to your hotel/room. Bait & Switch/fake online picts are pretty common.
Hotel Health (12,000-25,000) 60-90min.
You go to shop, pick out girl from real picts, she walks with you to hotel. Similar to DH, but you have more control on who you are getting (they are not going to switch on you since you can just walk back and complain).
Korean Delivery Health (KDH). (12,000-30,000) 60-120min.
Usually mid-20s, can be very GFE if they like you and you opt for a long session with multiple pops. BBBJ assured as is FS. Challenge calling up shop in Japanese. More likely than DH to say yes to foreign men. They deliver her to your hotel/room. Bait & Switch/fake online picts are pretty common.
Red Light Districts (10,000-40,000) 15-60min.
Wide range in ages and looks. Good for a quicky, but GFE is unlikely and extended sessions quite pricey.
More Expensive
High class DH. (20,000-60,000) 60-120min.
Better than average gals in service and looks. FS may be more likely (?). Not sure about acceptance of foreign men.
Foreign Friendly DH (AM and Boo). 35,000-55,000 (90-120min).
Longer sessions with GFE. Real picts. English ordering. BBBJ and FS.
Soaplands (15,000-100,000) 60-120 min.
Huge range in gals' ages and looks. Older=cheaper usually. Settings range from palace like places that serve single malt and have limo service to dives that might give you tea. FS,BBBJ etc...
To summarize: You generally get what you pay for. Low end means older, uglier gals with little GFE. Mid-range means attractive J-gals and foreign. High end are very GFE J-gals. True, foreign guys have less options, especially with Pink Salons which are everywhere, but with a little reseach you can get laid/blown. Not knowing Japanese is a handicap.
If you come down to Okinawa you can just about divide those prices by 2 or three. Soaplands are almost all 15,000/60 mins, and the girls are often younger and/or extremely pretty. And 15 mins BBBJ and FS in the friendly little RLDs are a flat 5000, and again there are many really nice ladies on the game. Not tried it yet, but derihesu runs 10,000/hour.
Check the Okinawa thread for more details. Have some fun in the sun and fun at night too.
Cheap/midrange
Delivery Health (DH). (10,000-20,000) 60-90min.
Usually mid-20s, can be very GFE if they like you. BBBJ assured, but FS is up to her (free or extra charge). Challenge calling up shop in Japanese. They deliver her to your hotel/room. Bait & Switch/fake online picts are pretty common.
More Expensive
High class DH. (20,000-60,000) 60-120min.
Better than average gals in service and looks. FS may be more likely (?). Not sure about acceptance of foreign men.
To summarize: You generally get what you pay for. Low end means older, uglier gals with little GFE. Mid-range means attractive J-gals and foreign. High end are very GFE J-gals. True, foreign guys have less options, especially with Pink Salons which are everywhere, but with a little reseach you can get laid/blown. Not knowing Japanese is a handicap.
Good info, Lion, but I have to disagree w/some of it. Have never tried DH in Tokyo area but have used dozens of agencies in 4 different prefectures of Tohoku and Kyushu and have never been baited and switched, nor have I seen a faux pic. Have seen some exaggerated 3 size figures--both too big/too small, though.
Also, the higher-priced ones are not guaranteed to give you better service or companions. I've tried some from as low as ¥8,000 for 50 minutes (FS no extra charge) to as high as ¥18,000 for 60 minutes (+ ¥10,000 for FS) and have had both great experiences and terrible experiences w/both. In fact, one that was ¥8,000 was among my best, and one that cost only ¥10,000 for 60 minutes, ¥13,000 for 80 was also among those; so much so that I saw her more than a dozen times over a 2-year period.
For DH, a better standard than price is to look at the quality of their website and the number and quality of photos. Generally, the classier, more detailed and descriptive those look (details of everything such as basic services, options and costs, descriptions of the women, etc.), the better are your chances of having a satisfying experience.
Good info, Lion, but I have to disagree w/some of it. Have never tried DH in Tokyo area but have used dozens of agencies in 4 different prefectures of Tohoku and Kyushu and have never been baited and switched, nor have I seen a faux pic. Have seen some exaggerated 3 size figures--both too big/too small, though.
Also, the higher-priced ones are not guaranteed to give you better service or companions. I've tried some from as low as ¥8,000 for 50 minutes (FS no extra charge) to as high as ¥18,000 for 60 minutes (+ ¥10,000 for FS) and have had both great experiences and terrible experiences w/both. In fact, one that was ¥8,000 was among my best, and one that cost only ¥10,000 for 60 minutes, ¥13,000 for 80 was also among those; so much so that I saw her more than a dozen times over a 2-year period.
For DH, a better standard than price is to look at the quality of their website and the number and quality of photos. Generally, the classier, more detailed and descriptive those look (details of everything such as basic services, options and costs, descriptions of the women, etc.), the better are your chances of having a satisfying experience.
You have much more experience than I in this, so I will defer to you. That said, thoughout the country there are great variations in prices, service and acceptance of foreigners.
I have a feeling rural DH are more honest with their picts than urban places.
There are High Class (VIP) DH [kokyuhaken] which seem to start at 20,000/60min and have 25,000-35,000/hr as well. I imagine this is a FS included situation, but I am not willing to pay that much for an unknown. If anyone in Kansai wants to TOFTT:
http://www.club-charme.com/c/top.html
http://7433.futown.com/
Next time you think mongering in Japan is costly, just think about what the poor Americans are paying for 5-star service. And then they get busted for it!
US authorities have smashed an online escort service that gave its prostitutes a one to seven diamond-ranking, with a "seven diamond" woman costing $US5500 ($5921) an hour.
Four organisers and managers of the international ring were arrested by US authorities and charged with conspiracy to violate federal prostitution laws, Newsday.com reported.
Another two of the men were also accused of attempting to launder more than $1.08 million in illicit proceeds from business.
The ring was known as the Emperor's Club VIP and offered 50 prostitutes in New York, Paris, Washington, Miami and London, The New York Times reported.
The appointments, made through an online booking service, cost between $1076 and $5921 an hour.
The United States attorney's office said the leader of the ring was Mark Brener, 62, of New Jersey, who delegated operational duties to Cecil Suwal, 23, also of New Jersey, the newspaper reported.
Suwal oversaw the ring's accounts and oversaw two booking agents, Tameka Rachelle Lewis, 32 of Brooklyn, and Tanya Hollander, 36, of Rhinebeck, New York, according to court papers quoted by the paper.
If found guilty, Lewis and Hollander face a maximum of five years in prison.
Brener and Suwal each face an additional 20 years in prison, if convicted of the money laundering charge.
The group's website, which can be access through an internet archiving service, described its services in an indirect manner.
A section of the site, Portfolio, had a selection of photos of women, all with their faces obscured.
Under each photo and mononym was a rating using diamond symbols that ranged from three to seven.
"We offer a convenient variety of services globally," the introduction to a 2007 version of the site states.
"Specializing [sic] in deluxe concierge, model introduction, spokes model and contemporary art is our expertise.
"We act for a select group of educated, refined and successful international clients who give their best in all they do and who, in return, only wish to receive the best.
"Our meticulous standards ensure that you always experience the quality you've come to expect in a world-class service when working with Emperors' Club vip.
"Best of all, our innovative social introduction / dating services allow you a luxuriously enjoyable dating / travel experience with 'no strings attached.'
"Our services are professional, reliable and luxuriously pleasurable."
"Emperors' Club vip is a positive force, intensely committed to serving our customers impeccably and honestly."
US authorities have smashed an online escort service that gave its prostitutes a one to seven diamond-ranking, with a "seven diamond" woman costing $US5500 ($5921) an hour."
This is the bust that has now ensnared New York governor Eliot Spitzer.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/nyregion/10cnd-spitzer.html?hp
Next time you think mongering in Japan is costly, just think about what the poor Americans are paying for 5-star service. And then they get busted for it!
US authorities have smashed an online escort service that gave its prostitutes a one to seven diamond-ranking, with a "seven diamond" woman costing $US5500 ($5921) an hour.
OMG, what did he (want to) get for that? A Hollywood Starlet?
..this is what he wanted to get for 5000 bucks:
http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/gallery/stars/ashley-alexandra-dupre/
Good grief. I mean, I would not kick her out of my futon, but *pay* for that?
I`d pick any AM girl over her "Kristen" any time.
Ambassador
03-13-08, 13:37
If Tokyo's xenophobic mayor, Ishihara, was discovered to be a client of a high-class prostitution ring, not only would he not be expected to resign, he would probably get more votes because people would take it as a sign of vigor!
What a difference an ocean makes.
Arranging a stay with an AM girl, but looking for specifics on if I should bring condoms. I saw some other posts that said condom use is very low, but just want to be sure. And if she's the type that wants to use one, she'll have them anyway, right?
Arranging a stay with an AM girl, but looking for specifics on if I should bring condoms. I saw some other posts that said condom use is very low, but just want to be sure. And if she's the type that wants to use one, she'll have them anyway, right?
What do you mean "if she is the type that wants to use one"???
I definitely expect every AM girl to insist on you using one. If there is one that lets you do nama (assuming you are one of these jerks who want that), then please report her so we can avoid her.
And yes, you should get one, or use the the service condoms you find in the Love Hotel.
Arranging a stay with an AM girl, but looking for specifics on if I should bring condoms. I saw some other posts that said condom use is very low, but just want to be sure. And if she's the type that wants to use one, she'll have them anyway, right?
Nino is right that the AM gal should have one and the Love Hotel will as well.
But do yourself a favor and bring some that are XL size (Japanese or foreign). You'd needn't be hung like John Holmes to appreciate the room. Standard J-condoms can be really tight.
$1.00 USD = 97 yen. Ouch!
Gyaos.
$1.00 USD = 97 yen. Ouch!
Gyaos.Yeah when I first got here in Sept it was 117 to the dollar.
Love Tractor
03-18-08, 16:39
i'm sure it's been mentioned before, but for the benefit of other visitors that don't have the time to rtff for days on end to get up-to-speed...
i was feeling buzzed and after rejecting the chinese massagie touts in roppongi for several days, i found one that looked like she had potential under that bulky coat of hers. the proposition starts with 3,000/ 30 min massage. i said i'm not looking for massage, i want *everything*. she gives me the smile and quotes me 20,000. of course, i said no way. i finally get her down to 15,000 for 30 min massage/ 30 min *everything*. i realize its probably not a real deal, but as i said i was buzzed. we get upstairs to the massage place and immediately i think things aren't going as hoped. just about a 20'x50' room with curtained off massage tables. i think there's no way to do *everything* on that skinny massage table, with a mere curtain separating all of us joes. i sit down to see eye-to-eye with her and make sure we're understanding the agreement. she says she will do massage, then another girl will do the *everything*. warning lights flash. i ask to see this girl, and of course she is nothing desirable and i say so. she calls another girl on the phone, and i tell her that i'll wait outside. to make a long story a little shorter, the other girl isn't attractive either (all the girls were chinese, btw, either mainland or taiwan). i try to get the original girl to give the fs, but she says she's too young (20 y/o). whatever. i was very polite and friendly during the whole process, but she didn't budge as i slowly walked away to give her the chance to change her mind.
so... just keep that in mind if you are considering those touts.
as for the african touts trying to get you to the topless bars... maybe if we all just ignore them they'll go away. that same buzzed night i went to check out a few of the places, but they were such dumps with horrid european imports (before the flames fly, let me clarify: horrid because they were ugly, not because where they were from!) that i immediately left. i really had no plan to stay anyway, but just wanted to see.
lt out!
editor's note: i would suggest that the author or another forum member consider posting a link to this report in the reports of distinction thread. please click here (http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?) for more information.
Azure Knight
03-25-08, 02:06
Ever since Spitzer got caught, that seems to have inspired a whole run of "why do men cheat/use prostitutes?" articles on all sorts of internet forums. I find the vast majority of the articles to be pure bullshit. Obviously the men and women writing them have no idea what they're talking about. Oh well - better for us that our world remains a mystery to them, eh?
Charlie Sheen said it best...
" I don't pay them for sex. I pay them to leave"
Ever since Spitzer got caught, that seems to have inspired a whole run of "why do men cheat/use prostitutes?" articles on all sorts of internet forums. I find the vast majority of the articles to be pure bullshit. Obviously the men and women writing them have no idea what they're talking about. Oh well - better for us that our world remains a mystery to them, eh?
Charlie Sheen said it best...
" I don't pay them for sex. I pay them to leave"
Exactly. Clean, no baggage. Of course, this Brouhaha is precisely *not* what he paid 5000 bucks for.
Ironically, with a cheaper service, he would have avoided all that...
Azure Knight
03-31-08, 05:27
Here's something I found a bit funny/weird. So I accidentally got signed up for one of the scam deai sites. For those who don't know, scam deai sites operate by having people pose as women on the site, who email sucker guys with promises up meeting up for sex...but of course the meeting never happens. These fakes are called sakura. Meanwhile, the guy is paying for sending and receiving messages while the sakura drags him along as far as possible.
Anyhow, while I've never actually logged into the site, I get email notifications clogging up my inbox regarding "new messages". These notifications include a one-line preview of the message. Most of them are pretty hilarious - women wanting to meet up with me and pay me ridiculous sums of money for sex even - which makes it obvious that its fake.
However, yesterday and today I got 4 messages from one sakura that was quite a bit different. I usually just delete them, whatever, but I couldn't help but to take a look at the messages from "I don't want to live...san".
"Hey, how can one die without suffering? Can you give me a mature opinion? I hate everything...can we talk by phone?"
"Of course...do you want to avoid me? Want to ignore me? If one ugly person disappears from this world nobody cares, right?"
"You don't even want to talk to an ugly person by phone? I hate living...what's the point of just tolerating everything? I could just drink poison right now and die..."
"I'm not going to work today...we can't talk by phone? I wanted to hear your opinion...but that's fine. There's no reason for me to live, so...farewell..."
Darkest spam I've ever gotten.
Sounds to me like they are trying to appeal to the whole "HERO/Damsel in distress" syndrome. I still think it's a scam, a pretty low blow if you ask me.
Make you think some young girl is committing suicide, you rush in a save her and she falls in love with you on the internet. But still never meets you.
Pretty shitty what some people will do for a buck.
Wow!!
I have seen some crazy emails and one liners, but damn! That is some just weird as hell!
Here's something I found a bit funny/weird. So I accidentally got signed up for one of the scam deai sites. For those who don't know, scam deai sites operate by having people pose as women on the site, who email sucker guys with promises up meeting up for sex...but of course the meeting never happens. These fakes are called sakura. Meanwhile, the guy is paying for sending and receiving messages while the sakura drags him along as far as possible.
Anyhow, while I've never actually logged into the site, I get email notifications clogging up my inbox regarding "new messages". These notifications include a one-line preview of the message. Most of them are pretty hilarious - women wanting to meet up with me and pay me ridiculous sums of money for sex even - which makes it obvious that its fake.
However, yesterday and today I got 4 messages from one sakura that was quite a bit different. I usually just delete them, whatever, but I couldn't help but to take a look at the messages from "I don't want to live...san".
"Hey, how can one die without suffering? Can you give me a mature opinion? I hate everything...can we talk by phone?"
"Of course...do you want to avoid me? Want to ignore me? If one ugly person disappears from this world nobody cares, right?"
"You don't even want to talk to an ugly person by phone? I hate living...what's the point of just tolerating everything? I could just drink poison right now and die..."
"I'm not going to work today...we can't talk by phone? I wanted to hear your opinion...but that's fine. There's no reason for me to live, so...farewell..."
Darkest spam I've ever gotten.
I have not been to Japan, and look forward to visiting this fall. I am plagued by a quote on the movie Mr. Baseball with Tom Selleck. One of the guys says something like " I hope you didn't bring your dick with you ..." and then they all laugh.
My question is, is this because if he did he will have a lot of women who want to use it, or he won't be using it at all? What insight do you guys have?
Thanks in advance
Charlie Sheen said it best...
" I don't pay them for sex. I pay them to leave"
He ripped that saying off from Sinatra... (though sinatra said it a bit differently)
The Tanuki
04-01-08, 11:57
I have not been to Japan, and look forward to visiting this fall. I am plagued by a quote on the movie Mr. Baseball with Tom Selleck. One of the guys says something like " I hope you didn't bring your dick with you ..." and then they all laugh.
My question is, is this because if he did he will have a lot of women who want to use it, or he won't be using it at all? What insight do you guys have?
Thanks in advance
It's a stupid movie playing on American fear of foreign places for a couple jokes. Of course, if YOU bring your dick with you, it'll be a waste of time right?
Tankuki
South by SW 2
04-13-08, 09:18
Posting a topic from "Tokyo" into a more appropriate thread
Phones. You can go to a Vodaphone store and buy a prepaid Enjourno model for about $75 USD. You will need to show your passport when you buy, don't know why. You can buy addition minutes at many convenience stores or from Vodaphone store.
Last time I was in Japan, you had to have proof of Japanese residence like a Japanese driver's license or an alien registration card to get a prepaid.
I know that rules like that come and go inexplicably in Japan, but can anyone confirm it?
If I don't have to do a rental, that would be great.
SbySW
Last time I was in Japan, you had to have proof of Japanese residence like a Japanese driver's license or an alien registration card to get a prepaid.
Okay, yes. The Japanese government has disallowed all foreigners to have pre-paid cell phones, unless you have a an alien registration card or someone from Japan registers the phone for you (but they would be breaking the law if they got caught). You would therefore require a public Japanese business to register it for you. Soft Bank (aka: Vodaphone) can be an exception because they are not a Japanese phone company if you can convince the store manager to register. I was offered a shot.
You can also rent a phone at Narita Airport, including Soft Bank. You do not require a Japanese driver's license or an alien registration card to rent a phone there. However, if you have a business card (meishi), having different phone numbers is burdensome, due to that stupid, insane law.
The law is stupid. In fact beyond stupid. Call it life altering. Stupid. I understand their reasoning, but it's not in favor of free capitalism, so they have to live with it. On the brighter side, it is a stronger challenge for foreigners to prove themselves that much more in order to be granted permission for assimilation. Additionally, the Japanese government are debating that ALL foreigners will be required to pass a Japanese language efficiency test to be allowed a resident visa. That would be a Level 1, 2000 Kanji requirement, including 900 hours of studying. They really will be pushing to see who deserves to be inside the "2nd largest economy". That hasn't been made into law yet, but they ARE debating it.
I'm all in.
Gyaos.
Gyaos, you have to admire the Japanese. They are sticking to their guns -- insisting on their racial purity and exclusiveness, despite all the demographic data indicating that their population is going to shrink and that they must encourage a lot more immigration if only to maintain the present level of their workforce, let alone be competitive in the future.
Additionally, the Japanese government are debating that ALL foreigners will be required to pass a Japanese language efficiency test to be allowed a resident visa. That would be a Level 4, 2000 Kanji requirement, including 900 hours of studying. They really will be pushing to see who deserves to be inside the "2nd largest economy". That hasn't been made into law yet, but they ARE debating it.
Gyaos, you have to admire the Japanese. They are sticking to their guns -- insisting on their racial purity and exclusiveness, despite all the demographic data indicating that their population is going to shrink and that they must encourage a lot more immigration if only to maintain the present level of their workforce, let alone be competitive in the future.
I am convinced that the Japanese will do a lot better with their shrinking but native population than e.g. European countries who open the floodgates and replace their aging population with massive immigration by from the third world, including religious groups who are unwilling to integrate and instead form hostile parallel societies that require open-ended welfare subsidies and and still declare intifadas in their crime-ridden ghettos.
I know that is that off topic in this forum, so I´ll stop here. Just remember what I said in 20 years. Or visit the suburbs of Paris and Amsterdam to get a glimpse now.
Gaienmae08
04-13-08, 18:06
Okay, yes. The Japanese government has disallowed all foreigners to have pre-paid cell phones, unless you have a an alien registration card or someone from Japan registers the phone for you (but they would be breaking the law if they got caught). You would therefore require a public Japanese business to register it for you. Soft Bank (aka: Vodaphone) can be an exception because they are not a Japanese phone company if you can convince the store manager to register. I was offered a shot.For the record, SoftBank is very much a Japanese company, which took over Vodafone's Japan operations a couple of years ago.
Pedantry aside, in both 2006 and 2008 I have had no problems obtaining a pre-paid phone from a Vodafone / Softbank store (in 2006 Softbank had already acquired Vodafone but hadn't yet rebranded) with just my passport and a temporary visa (and none of the official Japanese documentation actually required by the regulations). I presume it helped that I speak / write fluent Japanese and don't look too much like a potential terrorist or international drug dealer ;).
South by SW 2
04-14-08, 06:47
Pedantry aside, in both 2006 and 2008 I have had no problems obtaining a pre-paid phone from a Vodafone / Softbank store
There is a Vodafone store at Tokyo Station, I guess I'll give it a shot. Thanks for the information.
-- SbySW
Talking about mobiles in Japan, I have heard that it is possible to send and receive short text messages (SMS) from mobiles in Europe, China, etc., on Japanese mobile, but haven't been able to find out how. SMS that a Chinese friend tried to send to me from her mobile never reached me, and all I seem to be able to send is emails. If anybody knows more about this, I would greatly appreciate it. Many thanks in advance!
Maybe this is already well-known to many of you, there is an interesting case where somebody took Hokkaido onsen that refused to admit foreigners to court. I discovered the book and a webpage by Arudou Debito last week. As far as I know, nobody has tried this with a soap land, yet, but maybe the arguments used by both sides in the Otaru Onsen case give some insight into the motives of the sex industry, too. I hope it is ok to give the link here, it is www.debito.org, see in particular http://www.debito.org/japaneseonly.html
Wonder what would happen if somebody had the guts to do the same with a soap land...
Asian Travels
04-18-08, 07:50
Someone wrote about this recently and inspired me to TOFFT.
I recently stayed in a western-owned chain hotel and ordered in a massage.
Price was a reasonible 5200/45min, and I figured at worst it would be a decent massage and at best a cheap lay.
Well the cheap lay was out the moment I say the 55-60yr old small man at the door!
I think I saw a quick note of worry in his eye as he saw me and figured I was expecting a gal, but we got past that quickly. The little man had hands of steel and was a qualified masseause. I actually feel asleep at one point.
So, if you want a good massage, by all means order in. But if you are a homophobe or in need of more than just a massage it's best to rethink the idea. And of course don't open the door wearing only a towel and a hard-on, since you never know who'll be providing the service!
Someone wrote about this recently and inspired me to TOFFT.
I recently stayed in a western-owned chain hotel and ordered in a massage.
Price was a reasonible 5200/45min, and I figured at worst it would be a decent massage and at best a cheap lay.
Well the cheap lay was out the moment I say the 55-60yr old small man at the door!
What do you expect for 5k? "Massage" in Japan was just, well, massage, before the Chinese girls came here recently and introduced "massaji".
My J-wife frequently orders massage to our house, and we would surely be surprised if a girl turned up.
Asian Travels
04-21-08, 04:38
What do you expect for 5k? "Massage" in Japan was just, well, massage, before the Chinese girls came here recently and introduced "massaji".
My J-wife frequently orders massage to our house, and we would surely be surprised if a girl turned up.
I was referring to my curiosity based on a previous post/inquiry in the Other Area section:
I'd say, in my experience, that the higher end hotels are strictly legit, but the business hotels are a lot different. Back in the 90's I was around the country several times a year, and those places don't have their own massage women but call out to a nearby shop. Quite a few of those would provide a happy ending, and I've had FS a couple times even. Then again, they were NOT hot spinner babes with tasty little muffs. But they were decent actresses anyhow, and the massages were generally quite good.
Tankuki
Teppenyaki
04-25-08, 08:42
I have continued my research on deai web sites.
I`d like to made some updates to my post of several months ago.
http://www.love.squares.net
Is a real deai web site, where you can send a message only one time every 8 hours. Besides that, it is a safe site that does not generate spam at all.
Sent messages: about 20; replies: 1 but unfortunately no further replies (I wonder why)
No variations. I did not changed my opinion on this one.
http://dr.to
Another real deai site. Paying 6000Yen you can send a unlimited number of messages; the problem seems that the number of ladies is not so high.
Sent messages: about 20; replies: 0. Update: 30 messages - 1 reply with following chit-chat.
I banged the lady that replied. A little bit chubby girl but also (or "because of this") amazingly busty. I enjoyed TF very much. Planning to meet again soon.
http://furin.misty.ne.jp/
I thought it was real, but actually it is masked scam deai.OK, it`s not true, as some colleague here suggested. But anyway, still no answers from this.
http://www.aijinfurin.com
It is real, but "japanese only"!!!! I was shocked: I sent my card number and name. When they read my name, they replied my only in english (incredible!) saying "sorry, this deai web site is for japanese only, so we will not charge your credit card, sorry for this"My mistake was to imput my name in romaji. But I will not try again shortly. I am concentrating on free deai sites except of dr.to.
Summarising, dr.to for me was the only strike. One hit over about 50-60 messages. Yeah, I have to admit not good statistics, but maybe average for my situation since I don`t post from Tokyo or Osaka, but Kyushu. Of course your milestone can vary.
For all mentioned sites, reasonable skills in understanding and writing japanese are needed.
I hope this post is useful and I am waiting, always, for some trick from kind fellows that succeeded using these deai web sites.
My research anyway is still in progress. I am trying also mixi now.
Regards,
T.
Summarising, dr.to for me was the only strike. One hit over about 50-60 messages. Yeah, I have to admit not good statistics, but maybe average for my situation since I don`t post from Tokyo or Osaka, but Kyushu.
I don`t see the problem with that statistics. Posting an initial message is easy, with the copy and paste function. I never counted, but I must posted many more messages (my standard template is only a fingertip away), it only takes a second. Who cares? Eventually you will get a byte. Of course, there are standard scam replies (easy to spot) and the Chinese freelance hookers (a different ball game, not so bad if you want to take the gamble), but also genuine J girls who look for a sefure or papa. I met some great sextomos that way.
To make life easier, I made several e-mail addresses which indicate to me from which category they are: If I was looking for a sexfriend, wanted to be a papa, and in the latter case how much I offered: @2, @3, @4 etc. Naturally, the higher you go with the @, the more responses you get.
Azure Knight
04-30-08, 06:22
I hope this post is useful and I am waiting, always, for some trick from kind fellows that succeeded using these deai web sites.
My research anyway is still in progress. I am trying also mixi now.
I've had a lot of success with mixi.
First girl I met was unattractive and not even interesting. Only met her once and blew off her subsequent messages until she got the hint.
Second woman was decently cute. After a few months of "courtship" I banged her. Met and fucked several times, but she was starting to get serious so I had to cut her loose.
Third girl was young and cute, but we only met up once, no sex or anything even remotely close. I wanted to meet her again but she switched jobs and became "busy". She still randomly emails me, but I doubt we'll meet again.
Met up with another woman, we made out on several occasions and I finger fucked her, but she wouldn't let me go all the way. She has issues and I eventually got tired of dealing with them. She still contacts me, though I'm not really sure I want to go out and see her again.
I was supposed to meet up with a girl who I'm pretty sure was going to become a fuck buddy, but our schedules never matched up, and just as we were working it out she got injured and was in the hospital for awhile.
I got contacted by a married woman who wanted English and sex. Met up with her and gave her more sex than English. Going to go meet her again tomorrow, actually.
Got contacted by another girl who was just looking for a fuck buddy. Have fucked her twice. If I give her a few hours notice and she's free, we can meet up for sex. She pays for the love hotel as well. I can tell she used to work in the industry. This would be a wonderful situation, but the girl just isn't attractive at all, and the last time I couldn't even get off.
Currently messaging two other girls...one is a young, self-professed gyaru and former dancer, so she sounds like a hottie. We've made a date for meeting up next month, so before that I'm just trying to feel things out and steer her in the right direction. The other writes me these big long messages, so she might be looking for a serious bf rather than play. She's also young, and she apparently hits the gym quite often so again I'm hoping for good things. We'll see how these two play out.
I don't actively send out messages - I just randomly post responses in communities here and there, and then they message me first. It's been a pretty good approach so far. In addition to what I listed above, I've exchanged messages with lots of other girls, but I got busy or forgot about them and it never went further.
mixi has ero-communities, and within them guys usually post up their profile info and wait for girls to contact them. I don't think that works at all. As I said before, what's worked best for me is just posting messages relevant to some discussion topic, and letting interested girls contact me. My original profile just vaguely said I was looking for a girl to have fun with, and had some kind of Doraemon joke in it. I changed it recently, but I think I want to change it again to more accurately reflect what I'm looking for - a casual partner. I think a lot of my hits though have come not from the ero communities, but from other ones like the English community. There are quite a few "international dating" communities as well, which is probably populated with girls looking for foreign boyfriends.
While mixi is great, I do think there are other furin-based legit deai sites out there. Its just a matter of finding them.
Gaienmae08
04-30-08, 19:46
I've had a lot of success with mixi.Thanks for the interesting report! It inspired me to create an account for experimential purposes (my existing account is a bit too well connected to real people ;) ), however I've run into a slight problem in that mixi requires a mobile email address. While I have one, the mobile is a prepaid one and has no internet access, which prevents me from going to the confirmation URL and finally confirming the registration.
I don't suppose anyone knows a way round this? (I'll be upgrading to a normal mobile service sometime soon, but it will take a few weeks).
Yeah. It's easy to get laid in Japan just as long as you are not Black.
However, I am a Black person so the japs and other gaijin treat me like shit.
Mixi is pretty great if you are not black (like japan itself).
I was banned from mixi for raising this point as a Black Man. Mixi is filled with non-Black gaijin bragging about how they get tons, horny japanese girls looking for anything but Blacks, and a few sad Brothas such as myself that had dreams of japan that have been crushed. That's just how life is I suppose.
There are quite a few "international dating" communities as well, which is probably populated with girls looking for foreign boyfriends.This is a pretty crappy first post, so my apologies.
I was wondering if you could provide me with a link to one of those communities or some keywords to look for. I've never seen those communities before, so I'm vaguely interested.
Mixi is pretty great if you are not black (like japan itself).
I was banned from mixi for raising this point as a Black Man. Mixi is filled with non-Black gaijin bragging about how they get tons, horny japanese girls looking for anything but Blacks, and a few sad Brothas such as myself that had dreams of japan that have been crushed. That's just how life is I suppose.
You are the only one complaining about it why don't you get out and help yourself to the tons of women. They aren't gonna come to you by just sitting on your lazy ass. Stop being a whatever shit I am a brother too and I have lonely heart chapters from Sapporo to Osaka. I don't have tons but I have had my lions share of pussy. To boot I am even married and got 2 on the side.
Member #3919
05-01-08, 20:26
Japanese girls in London have no problem with black guys!
Ambassador
05-02-08, 12:56
The guys here in Japan probably saw this in the news, but especially for those who aren't in Japan, I thought I would post about a recent sex industry accident here. A soapland in Hokkaido, I believe in Sapporo, had a fire this week and a male customer, I think 36 years old, and two female workers in their 20s died as a result, I think from the smoke.
No names were reported in the two stories I saw, for understandable reasons. Still, can you imagine the shock for the families of the three? I'm sure that the authorities would not try to hide the circumstanses of their deaths from their families, no matter how much they would like to save them from the embarrassment.
Moral of the story: Pay attention to those fire exit signs when you're out having fun! (Yeah, like the places we go have "fire exits"...)
Tall American
05-02-08, 22:08
Beware of a troll lurching on the ISG site, as we were all warned yesterday!
I was in the neighborhood when they had the big Kabukicho fire a few years back. Friggin news helicopters started from sunrise 4:30 and never let up the whole morning. I thought the same thing as Ambassador...what does one think/say when a loved one perishes in a Kabukicho sex parlor?
X Man
The guys here in Japan probably saw this in the news, but especially for those who aren't in Japan, I thought I would post about a recent sex industry accident here. A soapland in Hokkaido, I believe in Sapporo, had a fire this week and a male customer, I think 36 years old, and two female workers in their 20s died as a result, I think from the smoke.
No names were reported in the two stories I saw, for understandable reasons. Still, can you imagine the shock for the families of the three? I'm sure that the authorities would not try to hide the circumstanses of their deaths from their families, no matter how much they would like to save them from the embarrassment.
Moral of the story: Pay attention to those fire exit signs when you're out having fun! (Yeah, like the places we go have "fire exits"...)
vaguely interested?
I'm only vaguely interested in answering, so I'll give you two words: Tokyo Metropolis
X
This is a pretty crappy first post, so my apologies.
I was wondering if you could provide me with a link to one of those communities or some keywords to look for. I've never seen those communities before, so I'm vaguely interested.
Ambassador
05-04-08, 15:16
I was in the neighborhood when they had the big Kabukicho fire a few years back. Friggin news helicopters started from sunrise 4:30 and never let up the whole morning. I thought the same thing as Ambassador...what does one think/say when a loved one perishes in a Kabukicho sex parlor?
X Man
If I remember correctly, about seven people died in that one, right? That was a big fire. I may have posted about it, come to think of it, or else I am simply feeling a tremendous amount of deja vu right now. What I remember about that fire was, on the news they showed the floor plan for the shop and how the stairwell was blocked by a bunch of crap that was being stored there. I don't think they showed the positions of the bodies though, like they usually do with murders and accidents. You know, those blue and pink symbols that remind one of the little plastic pegs used to represent people in the Life board game, where you place them in your little plastic car and go zipping through life in about 30 minutes, haha.
Tarius Shinobi
05-05-08, 05:15
I am a Black man. I lived in Japan for over two years. I have been back many times. Getting Japanese women is all about attitude, not race.
Do Japanese women have preferences? Yes: what race of women don't?
But if you are confident & secure with yourself, you can score some "Booty" in Japan. And I have to say with pure honesty, the many Japanese women that I have had sex with, had some good ***Pussy***!
Anyone watch the news today about Akihabara on Sunday where the girls spread their legs hanging on street polls and people took pictures of their crotches? It was hilarious! The police came by and tried to break it up. But then there was this massive tall Caucasion dude that had this styrofoam flame on his head (looking like an anime character) and the cops pulled him and he couldn't speak Japanese, so all he said was "wakarimashita". I swear that was one of the trolls on this board from the Tokyo forum. I saw it on Fuji.
What a fuckin' loser! But it was a good laugh, today.
Gyaos.
Read this recently in a government handbook on sex and STD.
In 1993 23% of girls had sex by age 18. Boys were about the same.
In 2003 is was 45%. Boys about 30% (guess the gals are going for the older types..)
Friendly Gaijin
05-25-08, 12:06
Size of the market, that is.
I found a link to an interesting article about the Japanese industry at the "Sumata" Wikipedia entry, http://snurl.com/2aiug [en_wikipedia_org].
It is already five years old (2003), but gives some interesting insights. Title of the Article: "Sexy and smart: one sector that won't be left behind: Japan's massive sex industry has shifted from bricks-and-mortar deflation to Internet elation - Industry Overview", URL http://snurl.com/2aium [findarticles_com].
The author claims that the market for buying sex in Japan is larger than the GOP of some smaller countries.
And he writes: "National Police Agency figures show the number of businesses that "send out female companions" soared from 2,684 in 1999 to 12,251 by the end of 2002."
Figure a conservative number of 10 girls average for those and we are talking about over 100.000 providers in the delivery sector alone.
That's a large number. Even if restrictions on getting service evaporated completely right now, there is no way anybody could work through all of them.
And it also means that even if you happen to get refused by 99 percent of the industry, that leaves still more than 1.000 options, which is still much more than anyone can handle.
Dire Wolf98
06-02-08, 16:51
I found a link to an interesting article about the Japanese industry at the "Sumata" Wikipedia entry, http://snurl.com/2aiug [en_wikipedia_org].
Nice blurb on Sumata, but I disagree with this portion: "The rise in popularity is analogous to the growth in popularity of Western brothels and strip clubs offering non-penetrative lap dancing."
Venues have been popular in Tokyo for centuries. Yoshiwara is 400+ years old. Sumata is just another creative way to provide service. It's a great option for athletic spinners.
Hi,
I just arrived in Japan recently, and on the topic of being non-white, and getting ladies, I was wondering what peoples experiences were like.
I'm Asian, but born and raised in the states. Can't speak anything but English.
I actually just broke up with my Japanese gf that I met back in the States and since then I've been trying to move on and experience the beauties of Japan so to speak.
Trying meet people, doing Language exchanges and all that, so far it seems difficult if you're not the "exotic foreigner. " Generally, things go pretty well until they figure out that I'm not white.
Maybe it's just the places I'm using? It seems like I can't rely on the typical places and that I have to actually meet some one the old fashioned way.
Is this something I basically have to deal with?
Hi,
I just arrived in Japan recently, and on the topic of being non-white, and getting ladies, I was wondering what peoples experiences were like.
I'm Asian, but born and raised in the states. Can't speak anything but English.
I actually just broke up with my Japanese gf that I met back in the States and since then I've been trying to move on and experience the beauties of Japan so to speak.
Trying meet people, doing Language exchanges and all that, so far it seems difficult if you're not the "exotic foreigner. " Generally, things go pretty well until they figure out that I'm not white.
Maybe it's just the places I'm using? It seems like I can't rely on the typical places and that I have to actually meet some one the old fashioned way.
Is this something I basically have to deal with?
Whites and blacks get credit for looking exotic in Japan. You will score points being a native English speaker though.
To QuinnT: What Lion said. Maybe to counteract it, mention something about being Asian up front, that could weed out the ones who might not be interested, and save you some time. Lots of Japanese seem to get confused if you speak English really well because you look Asian, and everyone knows all Americans are white and blond-haired, except for some blacks. It's a slowly changing stereotype, but it can be frustrating.
If you're in a bigger city, you'll probably have better luck. Be sure to hit "international" areas like Roppongi in Tokyo since the girls who go there will most likely be more open to things. Either way, don't lose hope and keep the gambarre spirit!
It also depends on whether or not you're looking for sex-friends or a long term thing and a mate. If you're fairly normal, have decent earning power prospects and don't try to compete for the ladies who are normally attracted to the "exotic" factor then you should be OK looking for a mate. If you're looking for sex-friends then you're at a distinct disadvantage because Asian men are usually thought of as being selfish, uncaring, etc.
Whites and blacks get credit for looking exotic in Japan. You will score points being a native English speaker though.
Dire Wolf98
06-07-08, 13:16
Is this something you have to deal with? Yes, but everybody has to deal with something in Japan.
My advice: put your cards on the table and mention that you're Asian (ABC?) in your Internet profiles or your introductory e-mails. Tell them right away so that you won't waste your valuable time.
Somewhere out in Japan, there are dozens of J-Girls that will want to meet you. It's just a matter of methodology and being in the right place at the right time. Use as many websites as possible.
Good luck.
Hi,
I just arrived in Japan recently, and on the topic of being non-white, and getting ladies, I was wondering what peoples experiences were like.
I'm Asian, but born and raised in the states. Can't speak anything but English.
I actually just broke up with my Japanese gf that I met back in the States and since then I've been trying to move on and experience the beauties of Japan so to speak.
Trying meet people, doing Language exchanges and all that, so far it seems difficult if you're not the "exotic foreigner. " Generally, things go pretty well until they figure out that I'm not white.
Maybe it's just the places I'm using? It seems like I can't rely on the typical places and that I have to actually meet some one the old fashioned way.
Is this something I basically have to deal with?
I do have some experiences to share. I don't know if if these will apply to you however. I'm half Filipino half Spanish. Most people don't realize I'm half Filipino, but they do realize that I'm a halfie. They generally assume something asian and something white. I'm fairly young (24).
Two experiences stand out in my head. The first happened in a train. I was unshaven and sat across a woman in her late 20's early 30's. She was staring so I smiled politely. She got up and changed cars. I don't think I looked very threatening.
The second experience was with a friend. I was at his place, and his cousins were visiting. At the time I spoke some Japanese, enough to hold a simple conversation. My friend's cousin at some point asked me whether or not I had a girlfriend, what kind of girl I liked, and how old I was. Long story short we had sex a few times.
Two extreme but very different reactions. I've had little trouble with Japanese girls in general, and most of them seem to be receptive towards me. Most Japanese people are nice to me to boot. I've faced only a handful of problems in Japan.
Hi,
I just arrived in Japan recently, and on the topic of being non-white, and getting ladies, I was wondering what peoples experiences were like.
I'm Asian, but born and raised in the states. Can't speak anything but English.
I actually just broke up with my Japanese gf that I met back in the States and since then I've been trying to move on and experience the beauties of Japan so to speak.
Trying meet people, doing Language exchanges and all that, so far it seems difficult if you're not the "exotic foreigner. " Generally, things go pretty well until they figure out that I'm not white.
Maybe it's just the places I'm using? It seems like I can't rely on the typical places and that I have to actually meet some one the old fashioned way.
Is this something I basically have to deal with?
SpeedoPunk
06-08-08, 10:46
Two extreme but very different reactions. I've had little trouble with Japanese girls in general, and most of them seem to be receptive towards me. Most Japanese people are nice to me to boot. I've faced only a handful of problems in Japan.
I haven't had many problems either. I am Mestizo also... half Ilocano and half Tagalog! It's just a fact that some Japanese will swing with you and some won't.
I was in Yokosuka before and now I am in Okinawa. Very different places but I gotta tell you, if you are looking for something, you ae bound to find it.
Azure Knight
06-09-08, 02:43
Hi,
I just arrived in Japan recently, and on the topic of being non-white, and getting ladies, I was wondering what peoples experiences were like.
I'm Asian, but born and raised in the states. Can't speak anything but English.
I actually just broke up with my Japanese gf that I met back in the States and since then I've been trying to move on and experience the beauties of Japan so to speak.
Trying meet people, doing Language exchanges and all that, so far it seems difficult if you're not the "exotic foreigner. " Generally, things go pretty well until they figure out that I'm not white.
Maybe it's just the places I'm using? It seems like I can't rely on the typical places and that I have to actually meet some one the old fashioned way.
Is this something I basically have to deal with?
People always make a big deal out of Japanese girls and race, but I don't think it’s a big deal at all. There are different types of Japanese girls, of course, and your success will depend on a number of factors.
There are girls who only like white and/or black guys. Forget them, they'd be a waste of your time.
There are girls who are willing to trade sex for free English lessons. Some of the white/black lovers are mixed in with this group, but not all. If you work at an English school, they come to you. If not, you may want to make friends with some English school teachers, or hang out at the international parties or get involved in those sorts of events.
There are girls who, contrary to popular belief, would never want to have anything to do with a foreigner. Forget them as well. Being Asian, you may have a better chance of getting your foot in the door than a non-Asian guy, but then it’s a matter of how quickly she closes it once she finds out you're not Japanese.
And then you've got the population of just ordinary girls, who may not be actively seeking to date foreigners but wouldn't be opposed to the idea. Going after these girls, the same principles apply as for any other country - look good, dress nice, be able to hold a conversation, make her laugh and have fun. Speaking Japanese will be an asset here. If you are hitting up the bars or clubs, you may want to have at least one wingman who knows what he's doing, and meshes well with you so you can work together. If you hit up the unusual places like the coffee shop, cafe, bookstore, etc, again make sure you look nice, and can effectively catch and keep her attention.
It just seems easy for certain non-Asian races because there are girls who will approach us because we are foreign. So that cuts down on the work we have to do. But if you're talking about girls who don't particularly have gaijin fever, we've got to put in the work too same as anyone else.
Dire Wolf98
06-09-08, 19:49
(snip) Two experiences stand out in my head. The first happened in a train. I was unshaven and sat across a woman in her late 20's early 30's. She was staring so I smiled politely. She got up and changed cars. I don't think I looked very threatening. (snip)Actually, you were threatening: you were unshaven.
Actually, you were threatening: you were unshaven.I meant with my smile, I would have omitted the part about being unshaven if I didn't feel that it was threatening.
Not that it matters much, either way I think the example is a valid one.
I meant with my smile, I would have omitted the part about being unshaven if I didn't feel that it was threatening.
Dire Wolf98 is correct. You were unshaven. She could have had her ass goosed a few minutes before seeing you too. You never know, so laugh it off. Her loss, right? I'm more than confident there are about 45 other hot looking Japanese girls on the same car, at least 4 of them are quite wet.
Gyaos.
Hi guys,
I just want to thank everyone for their informative and supportive replies.
I've actually tested some of my initial apprehension about J-girls and gaijin and also have factored alot of the advice and information you guys have graciously given me.
I definitely think it comes down to personal preference just like Azure Knight mentioned. I think at first I was just skeptical because of the negative reaction that I received after some girls just disappeared from our "Strictly Platonic" language exchanges after they found out I actually had an asian background. It happened about 3 or so times so far actually.
But overall, I think many of the outlets I was using to find these people tended to have a greater percentage of J-girls which were the gaijin hunter type.
I do think that it seems skewed to benefit exotic foreigners because you hear so many crazy stories about those types of girls who are enamored with anything not asian. I have an English teacher friend and man he's got some stories. And those things probably would never happen with me if I were teaching English.
I actually met an amazing girl off a classified which is still quite a shock to me. We ended up having the most incredible sex (both of us experienced) after a second meeting.
I'm still frazzled by the whole situation, since she totally feels like a keeper hahaha. I am already doubting my original intentions of wanting to test the waters again after breaking off a long term relationship just a short while ago.
Anyway thanks again so much to everyone!
Two by Four
06-12-08, 14:29
I got a request for 2X4's all natural, non-toxic and 100% effective crab lice treatment.
Background: Crab lice are blood sucking insects that live on pubic hair and drink blood. They eat, mate, lay lots of eggs and die leaving you with a very itchy and sore pubic area.
Key concepts.
Gestation period (how long it takes eggs to hatch) and
how long until the eggs are sexually mature and can lay eggs.
Crabs are insects, they breath through their skin. If you cover their skin with vegetable oil it suffocates them.
The treatment comes in 2 rounds.
Materials needed:
*Olive oil
*large plastic bag
*room where nobody can see you with a larger plastic bag wrapped around your olive oil soaked nuts for 1 hour.
Procedure: Slather olive oil arond ALL affected areas. Those suckers can live in arm pit hair and even in mustaches. Be thorough. Wrap oil covered areas in a plastic bag. Make sure bag is pressing against your skin, there should be no air pockets in the bag. Pop in a DVD to distract yourself from the fact that you have soaked your manhood in olive oil and are now wearing ridiculous looking and fairly uncomfortable plastic bag undies and wait for an hour. Shower off.
Great you have just killed all of the currently living crabs on your body. But there are still eggs and you will never find each and every one with a nit comb. No worries. Wait about 7 days. All of the eggs should have hatched by this time but they are not ready to lay eggs yet. So you go for Olive Oil round 2 which shold now wipe out the rest of the colony. If you want to be extra safe you can wait another week and do it one more time to pick up any stragglers.
Note you will still have an itchy crotch for a while even if all of the crabs have been killed.
You might want to go online to double check the gestation periods but the basic idea is you suffocate the first batch. Let the rest of the eggs hatch. Then suffocate the second wave before they can start producing eggs.
Be safe
2x4
Ralph Kramden
06-13-08, 14:37
"Background: Crab lice are blood sucking insects that live on pubic hair and drink blood. They eat, mate, lay lots of eggs and die leaving you with a very itchy and sore pubic area. "
I certainly can't argue with the above because it is a proven fact. I do have an issue with the remedy previously proposed.
Since crabs live on the pubic hairs, why not simply remove all your pubic hairs. It is a simple and easy process.
As a matter of fact, it has worked for me twice. You will itch for quite a number of days while the hair grows back, but that also happens with the olive oil treatment. I think Japanese drugstores have medical treatments as well. One need only bare the pain of embarrassment in from of the pharmacist for a few short moments.
If you mongers get crabs, I strongly recommend going to a pharmacist and get the CORRECT treatment, without delay.
Gyaos.
If you mongers get crabs, I strongly recommend going to a pharmacist and get the CORRECT treatment, without delay.
Gyaos.Seconded. Shaving your pubes will not usually help, as by the time you notice them, they will have laid eggs in hairs in other places on your body.
Crabs in Japanese is "kejirami" - the shampoo you want is Sumisurin L Shampoo, available at any pharmacy. The shampoo will kill the eggs where they lay.
Seconded. Shaving your pubes will not usually help, as by the time you notice them, they will have laid eggs in hairs in other places on your body.
Crabs in Japanese is "kejirami" - the shampoo you want is Sumisurin L Shampoo, available at any pharmacy. The shampoo will kill the eggs where they lay.Agreed. That's how I got rid of mine, and it was quite effective. But don't forget to change your bed sheets and wash all your pants you wore after your treatment or you may get reinfected again. Those things can live for a day or two in such places.
Happy Monkey
07-01-08, 15:39
Hey,
I was wondering how open the Japanese were to fs?
Do they discriminate towards Americans?
I find that living in Korea it is hard to get any progress.
Hey,
I was wondering how open the Japanese were to fs?
Do they discriminate towards Americans?
I find that living in Korea it is hard to get any progress.How about you RTFF. And you can do all that by yourself.
MonkeyDick4
07-12-08, 11:25
What's the situation with non-pros in japan? .
I am a thai monger that likes shopgirls, traditional massage girls etc.
Will I have any luck in japan or should I just save my money?
AussieGaigin
07-12-08, 23:22
What's the situation with non-pros in japan? .
I am a thai monger that likes shopgirls, traditional massage girls etc.
Will I have any luck in japan or should I just save my money?
I suggest you read Post No 497 below.
Then try the other 6000 or so posts in the Japan forum.
What's the situation with non-pros in japan? .
I am a thai monger that likes shopgirls, traditional massage girls etc.
Will I have any luck in japan or should I just save my money?
Lots of information posted in this forum, especially in the "Nampa" thread.
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