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[QUOTE=Mike De H]Why not have their birth certificate sent to them (if indeed needed) and just go to the Russian embassy, or Uzbek, or whatever, claim their passport is lost, pay about 50 Euros and get a replacement passport. Then go to the airport and have their visa restamped. When Visa run out time, skim a bit off the earnings put somewhere safe ...[/quote]As you go on to state, think there would be many problems:[list][*]where to deliver the paperwork; not like you want dhl showing up at your controlled apt's doorstep.[*]how exactly do you find the time to get to the embassy, several trips[*]you DON'T want your [i]employer[/i] to find out what you're up to.[*]I don't think you want to be caught 'skimming' money by these people...[*]and like you say, even if you make it back home, perhaps some unwelcome visitors at your, or your family's door. Even just some 'gossip' spread around...[/list]With all due respect, easy if you're a westerner; not so easy if you are of the 'other' types.
[QUOTE=Mike De H]Come back later as an independent, if she wants. If the balance is not paid, you can usually do a deal! The pimps will always want money rather than problems.[/quote]Again, in my ignorance, question this. Like a loan shark, letting someone skip out on ANY balance owed, bad for 'business' in general. I do know that a CIS regular (yes, not totally unknown to me), a FL, her roommate ran afoul of a boss when she had just casually mentioned to a [i]controlled[/i] girl that if she did not like her apt, she should find another. That word did get back, the 'boss' thought it was a [i]poaching[/i] attempt, and 2 heavies showed up at the apt. door. How do I know? I was asked to [i]escort[/i] the girls out of the apt.; they found alternate accomodations for a few days. Either of these guys could have pounded me into the ground with 3 fingers (think chicago linebacker), but, as you say, not worth the grief to cause LE problems when a westerner is 'mugged'.
[QUOTE=Wicked Roger]Filipinas - definitely true, 'fine' is Dhms 15,000 now for 2 months after which the girls keep 50%. [/quote]Like I posted, 15k is bs, sold into slavery. I'd be guessing that airfare is (rounding up), 2k dhs, visa another 2k (to grease some palms somewhere). 4k total.
I know 1 PRC (yes, different nationality) complaining she'd paid an agent a fee of 3.5k; after arriving here, found it could have been half that.
[QUOTE=Wicked Roger]PRC - these work, IMHO, in teams with someone (mamasan?) doing the visa runs etc. [/QUOTE]Not really a mamasan. Just a well run [i]support[/i] group, often the [i]business[/i] who sponsored the visit visa in the 1st place. Anywhere from 800 to 1200 per visa run, all inclusive. It is not [i]controlled[/i] as such, just a service offered, like when we take a 'package' tour somewhere.
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Hi, Folks,
Wow it seems I sparked a somewhat interesting debate here in the Forum. My original post was only meant to give note to what I considered to be poor (mongering) value for money that some of us appear to be getting from the Filipino girls.
As for the request to discuss this elsehwere, in another thread maybe? I fully agree, as most others seem to, with Mike De H. If we started a Morality Thread on this issue it probably would be avoided like the plague, after all it is us mongerers who often do not have any morals when it comes to the girls and the game in general.
Why not discuss it here, after all it is our forum and apart from certain rules, an open one too.
I didn't originally intend for this to become the big moral/money/passport debate but would like to add my 'tuppence' as well.
My knowledge of the PRC system has improved somewhat recently as I have had the pleasure of a fairly long term relationship with Miss Gem. Basically I am covering her expenses to the system and that is all.
In general I find that the PRC's are well organised, live and work together. They do have a 'Mamasan' type character who organises them and keeps them on the right track, but the method of financing is different to all others.
The girls come here knowing exactly what they are to be doing, their passports are removed from them but they are not given a debt or 'balance' to pay off. Basically the sums (in DXB) are as follows:
Each girls pays 1000 Dhms rent and 1100 Dhms Visa money every month. Total 2100 Dhms.
Any other income goes directly into the girls pocket/mouth/family etc.
They live in a 3 bed apartment with 8 to a room, total monthly income from girls 50400 Dhms.
The apartment costs the boss approximately 10000 Dhms per month to rent and run.
Each girl renews Visa every 3 months at a cost of 600 Dhms to the boss (=24 x 200 Dhms/Mnth)
So the bottom line is Income 50000 Dhms Outgoings around 15000 Dhms = Profit 35000 Dhms
Of course there is the cost of air fares etc to outlay initially, pay off to authorities etc etc all eating into the margins.
Not a massive income, certainly does not fund that new Porsche, unless of course you consider operating a few more 'Houses' on this scale.
Filipinos are completely different, they arrive and are given an immediate 15000 Dhm debt to pay off. The girls live 10 together in a 2 bed apartment in Diera.
It is the duty of the mamasan/boss to get the 15000 Dhms back off them asap, therefore the hours restrictions, outcalls etc etc to drive the business. Each girl takes approximatley 2 months to repay the debt, some take less, but once paid she is freelance and finds herself out of the apartment and living elsewhere.
So the bottom line is each Boss has at any time ten girls paying around 7500 Dhms per month giving an income of 75000 Dhms. Outgoings are a lot less in Diera than Bur Dubai where the PRC live.
My argument stands - The Filipino system is set to make more money, the girls are being driven harder and the customer (us) is getting less gash for his cash to put it bluntly.
CIS system is similar to Filipino, but debt is much higher and payback time longer, with it basically being left to the girls to set their own routines.
At the end of the day you pay your money and take your pick, or do it the other way round if you are an experienced monger.
I originally wanted to say that the Filipino system of short-timing the punters to make the girls available for work is not one that I am happy with. We should as WR says approach the Boss and make a stance, talk to them and see if a deal can be arranged.
I know a Pilipina who would be so happy to know that she is going to be with me or other westerners long time rather than suffer the torture that 3 indians gave her on Sunday night. She only went with one from the Seaview but he had 2 mates waiting when they got to his place. The situation became bad for the girl so she called for help, it got worse before the help arrived, then she ended up with no money after all. Outcome: Girl hurt + debt still outstanding = Nobody happy.
Saw her last night and told her that I would have taken her, but the early morning departure routine is not for me, see how that works?
Anyway enough of this serious stuff, lets get the Forum back on track ie - Went out last night, picked up a (lovely) girl for x amount, did this, this and this, here are the pics. End of story.
Or shall we continue?
Regards,
FF
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Naïve or what?
Mike DH – you answered your own question really.
What brought the rant on? 50 50 started this one not me, I’m glad you and other correspondents support debate on this issue.
UAE is not a free state; it just likes to pretend it is. Women are second class and non western foreign women are well down the hierarchy. Laws are applied at a whim and without consistency.
The lost passport ploy will only work once. Many FSU states do not have diplomatic missions in Dubai. One case I was intimately involved in ended up using an embassy in Turkey to get the ‘lost’ passport back, with literally weeks of correspondence to get a result. A friend went through a similar process with another girl I know and he ended up paying twice as the Arabic ‘lawyer’ did a runner with the money. You have little or no recourse here. The girls simply are not up to doing this alone.
Not paying the balance is a no no. Do you think people won’t be waiting in her country for her? The average balance is 6000USD for a CIS girl – that’s an average year’s income in some of these states. Bodies are found in the desert and beaches on a regular basis, it just doesn’t make the press very often.
Coming back to Dubai – it’s not like us with just a stamp or swipe of the e-card and an automatic 60 day visit visa, the girl’s visa has to be lodged at the airport in advance of arrival. The cost of a visa is 600dhms which has to be paid in country by the sponsor; I know I’ve done it so often and yet it is always a relief when the visa is issued.
It sometimes helps to be aware of the trials the girls endure to give us momentary pleasure.
Food for thought when you quibble over that 50dhm taxi fare ‘home’ or then again maybe not.
MK
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MK, your overview of the 'business' aspects of a working girl's life abroad especially if she is of FSU origin strikes me as being very accurate - perhaps a bit more extreme in your sunny locale due to 'local' conditions. The recriminations available that you mention for a girl even thinking of skipping or missing out the 'balance' is also accurate in my experience. "Hell hath no fury than a Slavic Brother or Sister scorned or short changed" in these matters. The term I have heard from several girls for the Arranger of these visits is lovely and quaint : "My Empressario". Saying that, for the vast majority it is a matter of keeping your head down, working hard and non one denies it is hard work and hope to return home with several multiples of an annual income to buy an apartment or business after a few working trips. Cash is King and this is one of the few sources of cash for many.
As the 10's of thousands of girls working in the 'business' attest with all its drawbacks and some dangers for most it beats staying at home. They do usually respond well with increased service levels to being treated as ladies and human beings to the advantage of those of us who do so. Thanks for you insight into these matters. Most of us on the purchasing side of the counter give little real thought on how lucky we are by accident of birth and how relatively simple many governmental and life transactions are for us compared to the FSU citizens and many others.
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Rant? I see no Rant.
[QUOTE=My Kapitan]Mike DH – you answered your own question really. [/Quote]
Thats what I said! But I needed to know more about the why's and wherefore's.
[Quote]
What brought the rant on? 50 50 started this one not me, [/Quote]
Does not look like a rant to me, just something really worth reading for once with [i]everybody[/i] making good points. "You started it, you invaded Poland" is not the point! Like you, I think such a debate is important especially important for all the newbies to research when first coming to Dubai. they al RTFF after all don't they?
[Quote]
UAE is not a free state; it just likes to pretend it is. Women are second class and non western foreign women are well down the hierarchy. Laws are applied at a whim and without consistency. [/quote}
Extremely good point ALWAYS to remember.
[quote]Not paying the balance is a no no. Do you think people won’t be waiting in her country for her? [/quote]
I know business! Yes I think mostly they will be OK. since money paid is always better than a dead body to explain away. I do know one girl who ran away then got an intermediary to cut a deal / reduced rate. It worked for her. Of course she was then on her own when LE shit hit the fan and back in Uzbekistan, but in reality she always was anyway.
[Quote]It sometimes helps to be aware of the trials the girls endure to give us momentary pleasure. [/quote]
Here here!
[quote] Food for thought when you quibble over that 50dhm taxi fare ‘home’ or then again maybe not. [/quote]
Extremely altruistic of you. Nice to see.
But then again I DO quibble over the taxi home, as you must have picked up from my previous posts. Howver I am not on a contractor's extortionate wages and have my own financial problems. That 50 Dhs, times say five for the week, makes a real difference to people like me, who also work very hard.
I must point out though; I have ALWAYS treated these girls with afecction and extreme respect. I do not offer false declarations of love to get the condom off [b]and [/b] I do not negotiate directly with the Mamsan, bypassing the girl who has to "do the business", thus treating her like a piece of meat.
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Interesting
My observations:
If you have mongered for any length of time you have dipped your... toe; into some sordid waters. Depending upon your personal experiences, and of those who serviced you, you can gain some insight into the beast.
While I personally know of happy, well adjusted, successful working girls, I have also met some real wrecks.
Everyone has a story, some are dead accurate, others fabricated, some scared the shit out of me, others made me yawn (a bad business decision, nothing more.)
I suggest that most of these girls are also operating under extreme ignorance, from "having an abortion wil make you sterile" to "it will cost me 25,000 Dhs for an exit visa."
I think the global "mafia" angle can be a little overblown, this is a technique used to manipulate the naive ones. Local "mafia" style tactics are a fact of life, they are protecting a business.
Most of these (FSU) ladies do face an extreme prejudice when they return to their countries, harassment at the airport (comes in two flavours, first general harassment "you were in DXB, you were a prostitute!" and the always popular "since you were in DXB, you have money, I want some." ) This is also the problem once home, people assume you were a pro, and you get the stares and murmurs of contempt, and then "friends" come out of the woodwork trying to borrow money from the "rich girl."
Other girls tend to notice the smiling, happy, rich-appearing newly returned girl, and consider their own foray to DXB, usually through the good offices of a returnee. It can be a pact of silence, if they tell the truth about DXB, then they must admit their own status.
Since most of them are quite young, they are quite suseptible to manipulation, of all kinds.
My personal mongering ethos is just that, mine. Nobody else cares, nor could I ever foist it upon another. That is just preaching.
The closer I examined the underbelly of the business, the more disgusted and sad I became. I will admit, I ignore as much as I possibly can in order not to spoil my fun. It IS a form of complicity.
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[QUOTE=Mike De H] I suppose people want the numbers right?[/QUOTE]
That's an understatement!!!
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B2b Msg
Hi,
I am a silent reader of this forum and found very informative. I would like to know that is there any Thai or any MP with B2B MSG service. I have heard from someone that it is in Hotel located near SH.Zayed road. If anybody knows about it please let me know. You can PM me.
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Professional detachment is called for, exactly the same as you receive.
Some girls are undoutably duped into the sex trade, but whilst the demand continues it will remain a fact of the business.
Either LE completely bans the practice, or every monger takes the big morality pill and abstains.
Both of which will never happen, so as one who thoroughly enjoys the self indulgence and available excesses of the Dubai scene, and the fact I know and accept my weaknesses (if indeed that is what they are, or is it just part of the male genetic makeup? But that is another debate entirely) I see it as my duty to treat the girls with respect, try to share a good time with them and stick to my part of the bargain.
So to that end 6 of us are decending on DBX on the 30th for the 7's, for two of whom it is the first time, and intend to cover ourselves in vodka flavoured chocolate and stage dive off the bar in the Regal on the first night and see what happens.
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Quick note on Oxygen Bar.
Popped in there last night after surviving an evening with 1Ball (who was smart enough to go to bed at a reasonable hour to get up for work, unlike me). After dropping off 1Ball at his hotel, the other four of us popped into Oxygen Bar at Al Bustan Rotana for a drink and a bit of fun, midnigght to 2am.
Several WG's there now (but also many non-WGs). The WGs were in the younger (early 20s age-bracket), dressed well and kept low key. The straw in the beer and the way they interacted with the single guys was a dead-givaway. A few lighter-skinned Africans, Moroccans and CIS - all good quality. Worth a look.
[QUOTE=Slugger] ... intend to cover ourselves in vodka flavoured chocolate and stage dive off the bar in the Regal on the first night and see what happens.[/QUOTE]LOL. The Regal girls will eat you alive!
______
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[QUOTE=Suhail575]I am reading all what you wrote but many things I don't understand like PRC, WG, and I want to know how can I be in contact with you.
Plz help me because I am ganna visit Dubai on November 24th, I need all the help from you.[/QUOTE]This has GOT to be a send-up..., but what the hell, I'll play along.
1. Above the actual posts, at the top of them, see the line:
[color=red]Support the Forum with your Subscription. It's only $19.95 per year![/color]
Look above it, there is a small line of links:
Home Forums User CP Rules FAQ [b]Abbreviations[/b] New Reports Search Quick Links Logout
Know what "Abbreviations" are? Click on THAT link, and a whole new world opens up.
2. My help? How about RTFF? Obviously you are not reading "[b]all[/b] what you wrote". So how about RTFRODT (the last part of THAT abbreviation having something to do with a thread titled [i]Reports of Distinction[/i]). Again, reading that thread (actually entails following the links to the actual posts) will again open up a whole new world. I'd HIGHLY recommend reading the 1st actual report there, on page 2, down at the bottom, titled "FAQ's", which has a number of links to things like: FAQ, Venues, Tips, Price Check, etc., etc. Then skim the descriptions looking for keywords like "summary", "reference", "hotel guide", etc. A treasure trove of good, concise info.
If you are still confused, may I suggest you are too young to be indulging in this hobby. Better give it another 5 years, then try again.
3. Be in contact with me? Only if by accident, we are at the airport immigration queue, and you are one of those who DON'T understand about personal space.
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Is is time to be nice?
[QUOTE=Suhail575]Hello there,
I am anew person going to Dubai, I am reading all what you wrote but many things I don't understand [/QUOTE]
FAQ (frequently asked questions)
Posts of distinction thread (here for example)
[url]http://www.InternationalSexGuide.info/forum/showthread.php?p=493359[/url]
After having my ass jumped for an innocent post (where are you Doggus?) I am extra sensitive these days ;)
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Rtff
Hi Folks,
while I understand those here getting anoid by the repeated question of what to do, I have to stand with those asking too.
I still remember how difficult it was to sort out what is the name of the hotel and the bar and what is one referring to in this forum - it can be difficult for a newbie. It was one of my first trip to Dubai, after RTFF extensively, I jumped into a cab and told the driver to go to "TGIT" - no understanding. I repaeated, I repated slowly"Teee-Geee-I-Tee", no improvement at all, thus I had to translate"Thanks God it's Thursday", again no improvement. What I am doing wrong, that was the name from the RTFF. The magic word to the driver was Astoria Hotel. But difficult to find that out from RTFF.
Why do I post this? Just to raise some understanding for those who may have not the full understanding of the Dubai scenario.
On the other hand posting or PM a "Request numbers" message, is not only lazy, but stupid - sorry folks, that's it.
If I find some spare time I should complete my "Starters Guide to Dubai" (incl. Sporadic translation cards), will see what future brings.
Greetings to all of you,
Tom
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EK Crews (Cabin, female)
Hi,
just me again. I do not know if I touch a secret or sensitive topic, but what is about the rumours about EK crews and there availibility for some extra cash?
Forgot the hotel which was mentioned, but I was also told just to give them the business card in flight and ask for a call.
Any experiences here - I was just to shy to approach the nice EK flight attendant. Maybe they try to kick my out of the plane at cruise level?!?
So would appreciate if someone can share its experiences.
Greetings to all of you,
Tom
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Cabin staff
Tom,
In my experience, in-flight, the available ones will make themselves known, this goes for any airline.
Nowadays, I would be shy about thrusting a card and an invite to a stew, it could be interpreted as "an aggressive act" and entail all the fun that comes with it! (detention, questioning etc once on the ground.)
During the late 80´s and all through the 90´s the majority of WG´s I had contact with were stews working as escorts while on layovers.
Quality was wonderful, price not an issue then (love those expense accounts!)
Stunners all, sight unseen, just letting my "fingers do the walking" to decent escort services in European capitals.
They were all interested in making some extra cash, but priced themselves directly into the "travelling businessman" market sector.
With the wide range of EK stews I am sure there are many who seek to supplement their income with trysts, obviously sitting in biz class or first helps in establishing your financial potential, thus success. Obviously, discretion is key here from her point of view.
Interestingly enough, I had ONE (among scores), only one poor experience with a stew (just a little too pro for my liking.)
There was one JAL stew in Frankfurt who spent two days with me after we "hit it off" the first night... Oh to recapture youth... ;)
Ps. What cards? They seem to have vanished! ;)