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Just watched City of God, as an American I can't, won't, and will never have the oppertunity to enter the Flavella, so this movie was interesting. I mean in my friends apt I can hear the gun shots and see them light fire works when the new round of drugs come in, so check this move out and get a feel for what is happening behind the scene's. On crime I think alot of people make them selves easy targets. Toning it down for you is still dressing nicer than most over there. Try to walk in a group, and if you are shopping or carrying large amounts of cash do it during the day. Remember everyone knows an Amercian standing outside of help probally has a minimum of 150R, almost a months salary for some. I wish there was a better way for Mongers in Rio to communicate so everyone can kind of gang up together, the more of you together makes it harder to rob. My friend has told me where he has ridden the bus in the evening and been hit witht he butt of a gun for having no money, they took his watch, so he buys a cheap shitty watch everytime he rides the bus so he has something to give them.
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Love your style Lorenzo, and as this is your last post, I won't take the time to post where the info came from. No, it didn't come from a website.
But I'll post another non urban legend. A gentleman of 67 years was driving his small unassuming car in Rio in a not so bad area, but close to a not so good area. Suddenly, a guy in another car pulls up to his window brandishing an automatic hand gun and tells him to pull over. The Brazilian gentleman of 67 looks for an escape route, but suddenly sees two other guys, both with automatic weapons (one in fron of the hood of the car and the other near the sidewalk). The guy on the sidewalk lets a few bursts go at the door of the car. The owner, opens the door, sees blood on his leg and runs down the street, having lost the car. Then there is a hospital visit. When he finally reported it to the police, the young officer (after taking the report), then asked for money. This one doesn't come from a website either. It comes from my heart to yours. This same crime can surely occur in Los Angeles. However, it does not happen every day and in Rio things like this do happen all the time. In the U.S. it would be reported, investigated, maybe an arrest would be made, it would eventually become part of statistics. In Rio there are no reliable statistics as the police are corrupt thieves themselves, incapable of keeping statistics of reported crime, but capable of asking a crime victim for money.
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Brazil: Rio, Stop the Civil War!
According to United Nations' numbers, Brazil has 2.8 percent of the world's population and 11 percent of the planet's homicides.
Brazil has the distinction of having 40,000 murders a year, a number much higher than the deaths in the Iraq war and in the whole Middle East.
Quoted from Brazzil.com
Don't underplay it. Understand it and take proper precautions, so your f-ck holiday doesn't become a f-cked up holiday.
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There has been some good discussion on this topic and I think a person can make in informed discussion. So I will stop for now. One last comment to Vitor97. The point of Rio is that you don't need to go into the Favella. In Rio the Favella can come to you. Walk down Atlantico or Copacabana and see all the teenagers walking around without shoes. See the look in their eyes as they size you up. Or read the story just posted by Lover Boy #2, again in Rio the Favella comes to you. The best areas in Rio are funding their own security forces to try to combat it, because the police are worthless.
Perhaps in a few months if there is a long stream of the Rio is no more dangerous then anyplace else line, I'll come back. But for now I would encourage any one thinking of a first time visit to Rio to read about the last dozen posts so that you can make an informed decision.
Yada Yada Yada
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I just wanted to make it clear why I was posting in this section. I don't want a fellow practioner to get lulled into believing that everything is O.K. and that Brazil crime issues are similar to what they might encounter at home. I have been in this game a long time. I have seen guys believe the "don't worry" rhetoric and as a result, lose an eye, have a 5 inch scar on their face and in one case suffer for a lifetime as a result of a bullet wound. I have seen guys with smiling faces on arrival, sampling great pussy, then leaving a country in a terrible physical condition, scared for life. None of these incidents even occurred in Brasil, but you have to be very careful no matter where you monger. A foreign guy looking for pussy is a target in many places. I would rather be an NCO telling everyone to be careful, than a 2nd LT telling everyone that everything is just fine. When it is certainly not.
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i took the tour into favela roshina about three weeks ago on a saturday. it's not offered on a lot of the day tour packages, but i found this one on a brochure in the internet place on miguel remos (the brochures can be found in other businesses around there and the guys name is antonio that runs the agency). i believe the guy that took me and four other people into the favella was named george - he speaks good english and has been taking people there on tours for years - and now he lives there. he took us to the top of the hill and we walked for about two hours down the hill to the bottom. he said walking was the best way to get the feel of the place.
i never felt uncomfortable at any time. he knew a lot of the people since he lives there and has been coming through with tourists for many years. we walked through narrow alleys and on the main road going into the place, and he explained that this was where the "war" broke out in may when about 35 guys were killed over a four day period. it was rival drug - gang stuff and the police, and he said that the favella is really free of street crime. he said i could walk through here on my own any day and not have a problem. he explained the understanding in the favella is that nobody commits crime there - they go outside to commit their robberies. if somebody [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124][CodeWord124][/url] a woman, they get their throat cut. if someone steals, they get there hand cut off or worse. this was news to me. i asked many natives over the next few weeks if this was true, and many of them confirmed it. my amiga in b.a. who is brazillian (but not from rio) thought he was being optimistic. but many guys (including the 25 year old native guy that said copacabana was very dangerous) admitted that the favellas themselves are safe. i got the impression that the favellas are probably the safest place to be in rio during the day.
the nightime is very dangerous in the favellas, because that is the time that the gangs are shooting it out. george said there are police snipers on the roofs. he said he'll go out at night when he needs to, but it's because he knows where it is safe to go.
i spoke with antonio about a week after my trip into the favella, and he confirmed what george had to say about the safety. then he added that the trips were not going on now or for the next five days because the drug fights were happening in the day during that time. he said that since george lives there and knows what is going on, he just goes with the latest from george. so, it's safe during the day, as long as you know what`s going on. it's a good reason for not venturing in on your own - you might pick one of the wrong days and get hit by crossfire.
well, i thought this was interesting information. i tried my best to ask a lot of people for confirmation on this information - generally, i think it was confirmed. anybody else have some information, thoughts or experiences on this favella visit stuff?
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Re: Favela tours
A Brazilian named Marcelo Armstrong takes groups of tourists to visit the Rocinha favela. I found out about him from the Lonely Planet guide. He has two numbers at which he can be reached, 33222727, and 99890074. I think the second one is a cell phone. Marcelo answers the phone himself. He will pick you up at your hotel or apartment in a van, take you on the favela tour, which is a combination of walking and riding, then return you to where he picked you up. I went on the tour in August of 2000, starting about 10 on a Sunday morning. The cost was $28. The tour is conducted in English, although there were people of many nationalities on the tour, a total of about 10 at the most. The particular tour I took was conducted by Marcelo's associate, Gunther, who is a German expat living in Rio and who is fluent in English. I found the favela tour to be one of the most fascinating aspects of that visit to Rio. I have no doubt that they are still being conducted today, because the business seemed quite profitable.
Gunther made no secret of the fact that Marcelo had to pay off the leaders of the drug gangs in order to be allowed to conduct the tour. In return, his tours are allowed safe passage and the tourists aren't bothered. Gunther tried to portray the drug lords as modern day Robin Hoods, saying that they took the protection money Marcelo paid and used it to fund community social service projects, such as schools, medical clinics, etc., that the government can't or won't provide. As if to prove his point, he took the tour to both a school and a clinic which he said were funded by drug money. While there was undoubtedly some truth to what he said, there was also no doubt that he was whitewashing the gangsters quite a bit.
The most interesting thing about the Rocinha tour was the discovery that this was a self-contained community, most of whose inhabitants are working people. These are the people who make the beds, mop the floors, bus the tables, etc., of the places that we frequent, then come back to the favela at night. I recall going by a medical clinic, apparently not one of those run by the gangsters, and seeing stickers of various medical plans on the door. Now in order to have these insurance plans, people would have to be working, right? This was a revelation. There is also a public bus route that travels up the main road through the favela, all the way to the top. Somehow I wasn't expecting this; I just figured the favela would be too dangerous a place to allow a bus to come. So I would recommend this tour to anyone who wants to see another side of Rio that tourists don't usually see.
I am also well aware that I was there fairly early in the day; the tour was over by early afternoon. I would imagine the whole character of the place changes after dark, at which time no amount of money would persuade me to enter.
Lorenzo
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Anyone from a Western country shouldn't drive a car here, Road Rage is common in Rio. I actually got a photo of a little melee I saw on Ave Atlantica. Two of the goons turned out to be Rio police.
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Marcello is definitely still doing the favella tours, he has been doing them since 1999 I think. I went on a tour early on the year to Rocinha (Ro-seen-yah) and went to go on another one in May04 only to be told that the tour had been suspended because the favella was at war. Apparently another drug dealer was trying to invade the joint and there were some big numbers in regards to murders and hence safety could not be guaranteed. Rocinha turns over about $5m per week in drugs, all controlled by the one drug dealer who controls the joint, hence power struggles are frequent. It is all back to normal now and would be safe. He also tours a much smaller favella, with a population of about 2000 compared to 100,000 at rocinha.
Favella's are just mind blowing. The police do not really go there regularly, they will only go in on planned excursions, they even have helicopters specially decked out to handle marksmen to take out targets. Scary shit.
I would rate a favella tour #3 on the must do non sex activties in RIo. #1 being Corcavado, #2 Maracana.
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Regarding the "favela tours",
Any Brazilian will tell you that Rocinha is hardly considered a favela these days (by Brazilians). Basically Rocinha is considered an old favela that these days is quasi middle class. Don't think for one minute that you are being taken to a "true" favela. Your guide couldn't guarantee your safety in any of those places regardless of what he charged you.
During that time in May 04 you would have to have been crazy to leave any of the traditional tourist areas. When the gangs and cops go at it even the quasi middle class zones like Rocinha are at play.
So net is a favela tour gives you a nice safe look at what we all think a real favela is like. But in reality, the real favela is a couple of hills over and lacks the municipal services that Rocinha has these days. Easier just to watch "city of gods" (btw, the same director also had a short series starring a couple of black kids on Globo last year) for a true authentic perspective. Actually, the movie the author of the book says downplays the day to day violence.
Just my two cents.
Photo55
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Guys,
Iive been to Rio and many other cities in Brasil. Always, I stress always, sit behind the cab driver, that way they know you are in control of them.
I've never been screwed up or felt worried about taking a cab, especially in the early hours of the morning.
[size=-2][u]EDITOR's NOTE[/u]: [blue]Posting of this report was delayed pending revisions to add standard [u]capitalization[/u] throughout the text. To avoid delays in future reports, please refrain from using the "chat room" style of writing with no capital lettering. [i]Thanks![/i][/blue][/size]
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I agree with your comments photo55, Rocinha is a sanitised view of life in a favela, from a tourist point of view though, it is probably as close to the action as you want to get.
This online paper has some good articles on Rio, best way to find the articles is to use their search box in the top right hand corner.
"rocinha" or "favela" produces as few good articles.
http://www.greatreporter.com/
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I rented the movie 'City of God'. It was a great movie and did give me some insight as to the psychology of the poverty/favela/drug situation over there. More interesting though was something that was also on the DVD besides the movie; a documentary about favelas, crime, drugs, criminals, police, favela residents, etc was also included under the 'special features' section. Very informative. Rio really is more dangerous than I'd realized.
The video is available for rental through Blockbuster.
RF
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Just to point something out to potential tourists. My friends and I are down from NYC this week and my friend nearly died at the beach because of the vicious undertow. So while taking other precautions, please don't forget that the currents here can be very strong and dangerous. He's fine now, just a little sick from inhaling lots of salt water.
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Rio Fan,
I have seen City of God too. I am glad to say that out of 3 trips to Rio, I have never seen any of the places in this movie except the part while they are all on the beach. IMHO, I think the favales should be avoided. I have been driven through some of the favales on the way up to Corcavado and did not feel comfortable, especially when the taxi driver locked all of the doors.
I have read some post here about people going to favales just to see them and other post about people going there to find a cheap piece of ass. The way I see it, if you can afford to go to Rio, you can afford to go to the safer places when you are looking for some action (termas, Help, etc.). To me, just the act of going to Brazil is kind of going out on a limb and there's no reason to push the safety issue while you're there. Even the most expensive places in Rio are cheaper than most of the lower class titty bars here in the US.
I have seen so many arguments posted here about the safety of Rio compared to some of the major cities in the US. I've been to several major cities here in the US (New York, Washington, Atlanta, New Orleans, Houston, etc.) and generally have felt more comfortable while there than I did while I was in Rio, but I wouldn’t say that they are substantially safer than Rio (bullets and knives work everywhere).
There are several places even in the small town that I live in that I would feel way more threatened than I would feel walking down Av. Atlantica around midnight. IMO, I think common sense is your best ally while you are in Rio (if it feels wrong, don’t do it).
Y & R