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[QUOTE=Mr Ho;1505230]I agree with you that fkk is not just money as I did have few occasions where I met girls outside fkk and also I got more than I paid for.[/QUOTE]Please tell me more about this. I met a girl in a club and next time I got back I think I will meet with her outside the club to just to hangout and possible free sex. I've been offered to hangout outside the club with another girl, but declined as I'm not really into working girls to hang out, but for free sex I don't mind. LOL.
[QUOTE=Mr Ho;1505230]About new fkk, I think the owners of this new club is Ralph something no? How did he manage to open so many fkk in 2 countries (Austria and Germany) I mean it must be hard to get it licensed with political / police contacts and all that? Also investment is not as big as I thought, but I presume it must be hard to make profitable fkk busines than it looks. As far as I see the business model it is like spa style hotel business right? But instead of spa service, they offer sex and girls actually sleep there, guys just stay there. Also I found that fkk is sometimes owned in germany with foreign national (with German passport?) why is that? Why would German government license fkk to foreign investor or owner?[/QUOTE]There are some videos of this dude when he first opened up Paradise in Stuttgart, I think it's on youtube. He may have some investors backing him up. I don't know how much money would flow if the business is GT level. 200 entries a day? That's 12,000 a day. 4.38 million a year. I wonder how much the the staff costs? Lets say there are 10 staff at 30k a year. that's .3 mil. Still 4.08 left over, although small amount would be taken out for food, beer and supplies. It's not bad if a new club would cost close to 4mil to start up. You can pay it off quickly given the business is good.
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[QUOTE=Breadman;1505314]This is for the guys who fly from Germany to Bangkok. I'm curious what the best rates and times of year had the best airfare?[/QUOTE]Man, if you live in Germany, why do you fly to Bangkok for sex LOL aint FKK enough for you? LOL
Well I understand if you like Asian girls more then Bangkok or Manila is place to be in Asia and arguably Macau if you like some quality. But I would say for Asian girls lover I recommend Bangkok it is crazy for that, but please do not do bareback as it is dangerous in aspect of std in Thailand. I am more into white girl looking asian so I like manila more for that in asia, but man central europe is sexual paradise for white girl hunter like me LOL.
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Flat rate
Since a prostitute is an independent contractor, they have the right to decide their own 'price' by themselves. The flat rate policy in FKK is therefore against this thought.
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[QUOTE=PussyLiccker; 1505325]Please tell me more about this. I met a girl in a club and next time I got back I think I will meet with her outside the club to just to hangout and possible free sex. I've been offered to hangout outside the club with another girl, but declined as I'm not really into working girls to hang out, but for free sex I don't mind. LOL.
There are some videos of this dude when he first opened up Paradise in Stuttgart, I think it's on youtube. He may have some investors backing him up. I don't know how much money would flow if the business is GT level. 200 entries a day? That's 12, 000 a day. 4.38 million a year. I wonder how much the the staff costs? Lets say there are 10 staff at 30k a year. That's. 3 mil. Still 4. 08 left over, although small amount would be taken out for food, beer and supplies. It's not bad if a new club would cost close to 4mil to start up. You can pay it off quickly given the business is good.[/QUOTE]Well I have two occasions when I was offered to meet outside and one of which I was invited to her nation. I cannot go all open (name, her origin etc) on this one as I care for girls privacy, but one of them was eGrman girl who also worked as escort agency. I did my usual long hours with her like I do when I find the one in FKK (I find the one then I go for long hours session with her everyday for few days) , she liked me and a day before I leave she gave me her e-mail adress (not mobile number though) , so when I got back to Japan, I wrote to her and for next visit I got fixed price date with her for one week. I paid 3000euro for whole one week in Berlin and she stayed with me for whole one week in my hotel room and she showed me around berlin area, ate together and sex anytime I wanted was included in the price. I did not do bareback as I was afraid of std. She was german from cologne but lived in berlin. This was two years ago. I guess it is private escort service. 3000euro I paid was worth it for me as I had morning sex you know wake up N fuck style and it was real GFE. I also gave her 400euro in the airport when I flew back so it was actually 3400euro. Yes I know I can fuck like 5o something time in fkk for this price, but sometimes I want intense session and outside sex in public places, well hidden public places.
Another one was I was invited to her nation, and she seemed serious about it then toward the end of my trip she began to dislike me (I think) due to my long hours woodman style escalation. I mean whatta heck. 5days everyday 4hours man, I felt like it is a job to fuck her too and I had to escalate the session to make it interesting for me as a client. Then I contacted her to e-mail she gave me but she did not write me back so far. This one was this year, I will see if she write me back but I wrote her two months ago then no reply so far so I am hopeless on this one. Yes this one was the one I was writing about last night on this forum LOL I was hoping to go to her country and I would go even thinking of the risk, but no reply so what I can do? Well in the end I did her good during my 5days of woodman style so either way we both win LOL But I think I stop doing too much of long session with girls as it get too intense on both end in most dirty but beautiful way LOL Please note that beside my escalation I am nice to girls to try to make her comfortable as I can, so that is a plus. My escalation is definitely minus LOL First German girl was sweet but more of sponge for my escalation she could take it and as she said "she loves it" LOL so it was all good, I mean we discuss and agree that German girls are most kinky dirty girls in fkk, we chat this one with you I think and we both feel the same. I mean most dirtiest session and hardcore session I had in fkk was with German girls and oddly enough Romanians, as many as there are in fkk, I do not remember having intense crazy session with Romanian girls. Is it just me or? I always have the feeling that Romanians like more normal sex, Germans love the dirty hard ones. I mean even with anal, only German girls that tells me do it harder and harder I sometimes get scared that I will rip her asshole LOL.
Well back to seeing fkk girls outside. I went to FKK in Germany now for I think 4 th year now and this meeting outside offer happened to me on second visit and on this visit (4th) visit, so on ratio it happen to me every two years, so next one will be in year 2015? Also it is like that with line up, if one year was good next one is not good then it is good year next. Is it coincidence? I always wonder what is best time to go and there is none, because I went once in July which is known to be bad time for line up, for me it was not at all, it was fantastic line up. BUT when I went in may which is consider to be good time to go for line up as girls want to begin to make last money before she go home for summer holiday, but that May I went was so bad was line up. So I think there is no set time to go for line up and purely a luck I think. Am I right on this one?
As for fkk business, I think it is hard business to get it licensed as I guess you need strong contact in police and also in government. Also profit wise I think it is hard to break even, I say this because the investment for big venue like artemis was like 4. 8million euro and considering the size of the venue and possible profitability it is good investment and not that much of money for what it is, but no big hedgefund or porn companies or related do not invest in fkk business, there must be a reason for this beside social concern, I think it is BEP being too hard to leach and fkk is not that lucrative business as it may seems so hard to make good stable profit. Am I right on this one? I mean 4. 8million euro is not big investment for venue like artemis and as for golden time fkk it must be cheaper like 2million investment. What do you think about fkk business in Germany? No corporation do it as it is hard to make profit. But it is best business model there are for mongering as before I discover German fkk, I have experience in many different areas of world for paying for sex, but german fkk is most prompt and structured one I have ever come across, also protected by government, so there must be reason why there are still only limited numbers of fkks in Germnay I mean it is possible to count all of them and it is not that big of investment for what it is. So I think it is hard to license (even you have money and clean criminal record they just won't let you without prompt connection etc?) and also hard to get the profit. Am I right on this one?
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Guy's I've only ever been to two FKK's & in both alcohol was so damn expensive. Do any of the top clubs have alcohol or at the very least draught beer included as part of the entry fee.
If so please name them as I do enjoy a couple of beers before and after bedroom cardio combat with these fit girlies.
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[QUOTE=CaptCabins; 1505219]Hessen how is the pricing there hessen prices or nrw prives or different prices?
How are the girls in terms of line up and service?[/QUOTE]The club's not open yet. I'd guess pricing structure will be the same as in Hessen, see other FKK in Saarland.
HB
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[QUOTE=Mr Ho; 1505282]What is this article on abolishing flat rate in German brothel?
Flat rate meaning entry fee and have sex as much as client want in brothel flat rate?
[url]http://money.msn.com/business-news/article.aspx?feed=AP&date=20131202&id=17155777[/url][/QUOTE]That's what it means. There's still flat rate (Pauschal) clubs in Germany. Pussy Club in Fellbach was closed a few years ago, manager (female) went to prison.
HB
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The owner / managing director of Palace, Paradise etc. Is Jürgen Rudloff. Info from the website:
[quote]P & I Paradise Island Entertainment Betriebsgesellschaft mbH
Amtsgericht Stuttgart HRB 72572.
Vertretungsberechtigter Geschäftsführer: Rainer Mühlbauer[/quote]There's a group of investors behind them.
http://www.the-paradise.de/images/upload/press/92e1094848/normal/Paradise_Praesentation.pdf
HB
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[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1505408]That's what it means. There's still flat rate (Pauschal) clubs in Germany. Pussy Club in Fellbach was closed a few years ago, manager (female) went to prison.
HB[/QUOTE]Ah ok, thanks HB. I never been to that kinda club, but I think it is not my type of club. As long as girls looks good, I am willing to pay, I go for quality and not quantity, even though you have to dig alot, but in fkk, sometimes you find real beauty. The best thing is you can see her before you make your investment decision, I like this about fkk than escort service. With escort you are entirely depending on taste and reliability of escort agency owner. Fkk it is all up to us.
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[QUOTE=Hessen Bub; 1505410]The owner / managing director of Palace, Paradise etc. Is Jürgen Rudloff. Info from the website:
There's a group of investors behind them.
[url]http://www.the-paradise.de/images/upload/press/92e1094848/normal/Paradise_Praesentation.pdf[/url]
HB[/QUOTE]There must be some fkk hedge fund or something? After 50, I would love to invest in fkk and try to build myself a room within fkk LOL
Well I know I know if you own or run this kind of place, it is not wise to have session in your own club, like they say do not touch your merchandise.
Out of all fkk I went to, I do not know any fkk that owner or manager having session with the girls, I do see some managers taking some massage (normal one by masseuce) and also taking sauna with us, but never these owner or manager buying girl for sex. I guess professionalism I guess. But it must be hard temptation just being there and not touching some of these girls even though some of them must be their type of girls.
I wonder why there are only limited fkks, there must be some restriction of some kind to stop new invester building new fkk. I mean for instance, Artemis was 3. 8million euro I read to build, it is not that large amount of investment for such a grand business and only big iconic brothel in the area. There must be a reason to holding somepeople back.
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Beer
[QUOTE=Pentire;1505367]Do any of the top clubs have alcohol or at the very least draught beer included as part of the entry fee. If so please name them as I do enjoy a couple of beers before and after bedroom cardio combat with these fit girlies.[/QUOTE]Mainhattan and Golden Time are good in this regard.
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Not as hard as you think
I think it is really easy for these folk to make a great return on investment. Let's take the club I frequent the most: Mainhattan. The girls each pay 85 Euro for working each day there. They also can stay in the premises for 20 Euro per night, a real bargain. So each girl pays the house 105 Euro per day assuming they stay in the confines of the establishment. So, let's assume for the bigger clubs, that they have a cool 100 girls a day looking for business. That is at least 10, 500 Euro per day, just from the girls. The entry fee is 60 Euro per day. Once again, let's say they average 100 punters per day. That's another 6, 000 Euro per day. So, that means they make (Estimate only guys, this is a total guess) , if the club is as big as the one in Saauerbruken. 16, 500 Euros per day. For the year, that will add up to 6, 022, 500 Euros. Take about 1, 200, 000 Euros for operations (Food, drinks, support staff salaries, insurance, etc) , and you still have quite a hefty profit even if they pay 50% or 60% in taxes, and that's each year. They are not hurting for cash, that's for sure.
[QUOTE=Mr Ho;1505340]
As for fkk business, I think it is hard business to get it licensed as I guess you need strong contact in police and also in government. Also profit wise I think it is hard to break even, I say this because the investment for big venue like artemis was like 4. 8million euro and considering the size of the venue and possible profitability it is good investment and not that much of money for what it is, but no big hedgefund or porn companies or related do not invest in fkk business, there must be a reason for this beside social concern, I think it is BEP being too hard to leach and fkk is not that lucrative business as it may seems so hard to make good stable profit. Am I right on this one? I mean 4. 8million euro is not big investment for venue like artemis and as for golden time fkk it must be cheaper like 2million investment. What do you think about fkk business in Germany? No corporation do it as it is hard to make profit. But it is best business model there are for mongering as before I discover German fkk, I have experience in many different areas of world for paying for sex, but german fkk is most prompt and structured one I have ever come across, also protected by government, so there must be reason why there are still only limited numbers of fkks in Germnay I mean it is possible to count all of them and it is not that big of investment for what it is. So I think it is hard to license (even you have money and clean criminal record they just won't let you without prompt connection etc?) and also hard to get the profit. Am I right on this one?[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Pentire; 1505367]Guy's I've only ever been to two FKK's & in both alcohol was so damn expensive. Do any of the top clubs have alcohol or at the very least draught beer included as part of the entry fee.
If so please name them as I do enjoy a couple of beers before and after bedroom cardio combat with these fit girlies.[/QUOTE]I don't recommend too much alcohol in the clubs as it reduces your likelyhood of finishing a session with a happy face. Or some girls say makes it difficult to get a drunk man hard. Alcohol does bring the mood up in the club though.
Here are a list of clubs that serves free beer.
GT and Living Room-free and many varieties in the fridge for taking in addition to wheat beer. I've seen wine and mixed drink served later at night.
PHG-Just like GT beer is free including wheat beer, and many varieties for the taking in the fridge. Never tried spirits there, and not sure if its free or cheap. Lots of alcohol drinkers here at this club. I believe girls are freely allowed to drink here. Many girls drink mixed drinks and dances, it's a party atmosphere at night.
Dolce Vita (Dusseldorf)-free also, but only tap beer no varieties to choose from.
Maintattan-free, but same as Dolce Vita.
World-Same as both
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FKK Revenue and profits
[QUOTE=Voyajer1;1505496]They also can stay in the premises for 20 Euro per night, a real bargain. So each girl pays the house 105 Euro per day assuming they stay in the confines of the establishment. So, let's assume for the bigger clubs, that they have a cool 100 girls a day looking for business. That is at least 10, 500 Euro per day, just from the girls.[/QUOTE]I think you may be overestimating the number of girls who stay on premises. Sure, plenty of girls stay on premises, but also plenty don't. So, in order to better estimate revenues, it's unreasonable to assume that every single girl in the club will stay on premises. Your figure from that income stream is too high. That said, any way you cut it, a successful club is going to be a cash cow. The only thing that will really cut into profits will be insanely high taxes. And also probably utilities just from running the place. People often underestimate the cost / impact of utilities. This can be quite substantial for any business.
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[QUOTE=Mr Ho;1505424]I wonder why there are only limited fkks, there must be some restriction of some kind to stop new invester building new fkk. I mean for instance, Artemis was 3. 8million euro I read to build, it is not that large amount of investment for such a grand business and only big iconic brothel in the area. There must be a reason to holding somepeople back.[/QUOTE]I agree. I don't see why Berlin doesn't have other clubs. A German fellow told me there are many clubs in Dusseldorf because there are more wealthier people there so there would be more disposable income there (although paid sex in Germany in general is not all that expensive). I would like to see more cheaper options open up in Berlin to compete with Artemis. What puts me off from going to Berlin is that Artemis is the only club and the price of the club which is 80 entry and 60 per session. In NRW, it's much more reasonable with 50 first half and 25 after and much lower extras with 25 CIM and 50 Anal. So pricing and lack of other options for clubs puts me off from visiting Artemis. Going there and back to NRW is waste of time and money(fares) for me. I like that Hessen and NRW are not that far apart and have girls that offer good services.
Also, I've noticed that clubs are usually in industrial areas away from neighborhoods. Not sure if there are plenty of open areas like that to build a new FKK in Berlin.
Possibly there is some licensing issues for someone to open one up there. Possibly many feel that there wouldn't be enough clientel in Berlin. I've heard that Berlin has mostly younger demographics, and in Germany older men have disposable income. Frankfurt is a financial district so there would be wealthy people there. Also Stuttgart since the big car companies are there. Munich I would think also since the prices seems to be higher there which makes me think people with high income lives there also. There are several clubs there, but not anything interesting worthy of visiting.