-
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2151827]The question was asked as to why not posting about BBBJ or BBFS (AO) would lead to those services being harder to find or more expensive if found.
This goes back to the basic phenomena that any kind of prohibition brings. During the alcohol prohibition in the US what happened? People didn't stop drinking. Booze was a bit harder to find. It became more expensive. It became the basis for all manner of criminality. The downside of prohibition was so bad that it overwhelmed the anticipated upside, and after a few years was abandoned.
It should be obvious that if X goes unreported, it becomes more difficult to find. The main point of posts on boards like this is to make services easier to find at a fair price. Those who will find it the most difficult will be those guys just starting out. And at one point we were all just guys starting out.
What some of those who insist reporting on BB services is a bad thing are really saying it's bad FOR THEM. (Or so they think.) The attitude is "I've got mine, and if sharing will endanger that, I'd rather not share. " This is not returning the favor of sharing info as it was shared with them at one time.
So self-censorship obviously makes BB services harder to find. No info is no info. But does it cause prices to go up? Yes, and for the same reason. Self-censorship ends up limiting things on the supply side, and when supply goes down and demand remains static, prices go up. It's basic economics, and you can see it in the reporting here. It's not the law causing girls to want to up-charge for BB services. It's the fact that thanks to things being pushed underground they think they can command higher prices.
And it's the guys trying to get everyone to self-censor who assist these would-be up-charging girls in getting away with it.
The more BB services are normalized by open reporting, the more they will be expected, the more they will be easy to find, the harder it will be for girls to charge extra, and the more ineffective this already impossible to enforce law will become. This is one area where perception really does become reality. If you want a reality where BB services are hard to find and more expensive, then go ahead and contribute to the perception that because of this mostly ineffectual law guys need to self-censor.[/QUOTE]No, self censorship does not OBVIOUSLY lead to higher prices or lower supply. And you fail to make that connection at any point in your diatribe. Using the word obviously does not automatically make it true.
Limiting info limits supply? The hell it does. What kind of economics do you subscribe to? Heck what kind of logic? Your censorship culture spilling into the clubs assumption is flawed. We might not post it here but no one is saying to not speak of it and expect it with the girls.
You skip so many dots to come to your conclusion. The culture here does not spill over to the club culture, there are too few posters in comparison to customers to make that happen. Not posting specific info on this board does not push it underground in the clubs. However the info posted here does.
Censorship lead to upselling? Most girls didn't withold the service on day 1 of the law. However most girls did upsell starting on day 1. Upselling therefore preceded "censorship. "
Ill ask again? If open discussion about certain topic is so great, why does no one name girls who provide AO? Why? Bueller? Ferris Bueller?
As for being selfish? Any poster can PM me about any girl and if I know, I'the gladly share any info that is not personal.
This is what I was thinking after reading your post:
[url]https://youtu.be/LQCU36pkH7c[/url]
-
[QUOTE=Takedown;2151837]It's a forum of discussion. International Sex guide, not FKK girls directory. You'll find plenty of info mixed in with a plethora of other conversation.
. Social dynamics do exist, and by design.
And just because you've never known a girl outside of a club doesn't mean it doesn't happen regularly. Whether seeing a girl outside of a club is a healthy activity is another story. I for one have no regrets. These girls have caused me no more grief than civilian girls.
As for not posting info, no one is saying not to post reviews. Detailed newbie posts are interesting and appreciated.
I don't see people posting specific names about girls who do AO outside of the Dietz board. Why don't some of you whine about that too?[/QUOTE]I agree, I should have clarified it is more than just reviews and yes an overall hobby discussion. I stand corrected. These social dynamics do exist for sure and and I am well aware of some of these ' outside the FKK relationships' and sounds like you have handled yourself well but not to sound like Debbie the Downer that can change on a dime, most go downhill and usually the guys get burned both on a financial and emotional level many spending months if not years in denial before the damage manifests often in anger which is why providers put up boundaries or in the case of girls in the FKK they will often cut a guy off their WhatsApp or social media or ban him from being seen again. Sounds like you have some good relationships going and I wish you the best and enjoy. When they work they are fun.
It is good you have no regrets. And I agree with your questioning if these outside the club relationships are healthy. I think the answer to that question can only truly be answered by a man trapped in one and that is not me. This is one reason I come to Germany to separate reality from fiction nor letting myself get to the point for where fiction becomes reality in a world that is purely fantasy. I am only human and myself have fucked up and been burned and I have no shame in saying so so I can understand why this goes on with some guys.
But you are right, the ISG should be much more than reviews and I do not skip posts or ever put anyone on ignore but I also am not afraid to speak my mind and I certainly think ' guys falling for providers / out of the club relationships' is a hobby topic and not unique to the ISG, you can add every American board you can think of to that list as this exact topic has been discussed in hundreds of threads in dozens of years on Lord knows how many boards many now defunct. I too prefer WG's compared to civies (less headache a few bucks they go away) and very true that newbie posts, reviews and participation are not just interesting and appreciated they are vital and needed for the continuation of the longevity of any hobby board and any informational value it may have. Boards have turnovers so newbies always needed and wanted. Sometimes these newbies have been playing this game albeit it outside of Germany longer than those who refer to them as newbies which IMHO adds to the mix of the cast of characters here.
As to Dietzenbach; AO is a known service at Dietz, it is no secret it goes on as it is no secret many girls whose name gets mentioned offer BBBJ in other clubs. Nothing seems to have come from that. I do not think posting one did AO with a Dietz girl would do a darn thing to her reputation. Why do guy's not complain that guys do not mention AO of girls outside of Dietzenbach?
For the exact same reason we do not on our own boards back home here, it can ruin a girls business and reputation (with guys and girls alike) well in Texas it would make her phone blow up but reality is it remains a mainstream taboo subject on all boards and perhaps no one whines about it as they understand to do so can harm a girl and I do not think any off us would possibly want this especially those who enjoy relationships with girls outside of the club. Certainly they can understand respecting a girl's reputation if they are the kind to also maintain friendships with them 'off the clock'.
Another reason guys do not mention girls who do AO in the main FKK clubs is that in every country and no way Germany is exempt there exist private mens' boards (invite only) where lists of AO girls or in the states BBFS girls are maintained outside of the public view.
I think the two above reasons well answers your question.
-
Meanwhile.
Any chance the debate on reporting services could be moved to Lounge or General Info? It is most definitely not specific to Oase. Selfishly, as I have an Oase trip coming up, any chance of some reports on girls and services. I enjoyed the last batch! My two cents. Those reports (and hopefully more to follow) will assist in having some knowledge about certain girls and what to expect, or not.
-
[QUOTE=KosherKowboy;2151874]. Why do guy's not complain that guys do not mention AO of girls outside of Dietzenbach?
For the exact same reason we do not on our own boards back home here, it can ruin a girls business and reputation (with guys and girls alike) well in Texas it would make her phone blow up but reality is it remains a mainstream taboo subject on all boards and perhaps no one whines about it as they understand to do so can harm a girl and I do not think any off us would possibly want this especially those who enjoy relationships with girls outside of the club. Certainly they can understand respecting a girl's reputation if they are the kind to also maintain friendships with them 'off the clock'.
Another reason guys do not mention girls who do AO in the main FKK clubs is that in every country and no way Germany is exempt there exist private mens' boards (invite only) where lists of AO girls or in the states BBFS girls are maintained outside of the public view.
I think the two above reasons well answers your question.[/QUOTE]Right, at this point BBBJ has the same legal status as AO and the first few months of the law, girls actually treated it as such, some to get more money and others facing the real possibility of getting let go by the club. See Mainhattan.
Like I've mentioned in previous posts, I think the sensitive time period regarding the issue is passing so now it's becoming a hypothetical argument.
But those posters accusing other posters who preferred discretion, even temporarily, as doing it for selfish reasons, GTFOH, your logic is weak.
-
Oase hit and miss.
After a few years of banning this club, I returned to check about a month ago. And for 2 visits it was ok, a nice refreshment to Sharks. But this place is a hit and miss game, and this time I missed 3 times.
First was Shyarin ROM, quite little dark blond, small size. Rushed service with up-selling, in the end even asked for tip for her lousy service.
Second was Anika, good DT but mechanic and cold.
Third and worst was Emily Rom. A bit chubby black hair. Lousy BJ, bad service. After I handled her the 50 bill, she asked for extra 50 because of DATY. I said that I never pay extra for this and she should have told me in the room, if you want let's go to the reception. She turned away nervously. Avoid this girl.
This club is always surprising me with how much the service level may vary.
-
[QUOTE=Takedown;2151902]Right, at this point BBBJ has the same legal status as AO and the first few months of the law, girls actually treated it as such, some to get more money and others facing the real possibility of getting let go by the club. See Mainhattan.
Like I've mentioned in previous posts, I think the sensitive time period regarding the issue is passing so now it's becoming a hypothetical argument.
But those posters accusing other posters who preferred discretion, even temporarily, as doing it for selfish reasons, GTFOH, your logic is weak.[/QUOTE]I think I would agree with you on the above especially about the Mainhatten girls as it really is a joke when they explain to you the new law and how CBJ is safer and against the law for us ( club rules for them) yet if you give them an extra 50 e suddenly CBJ is safe and they will break the rules/law. From what I noticed in Mainhatten the long time girls I think have an unspoken rule that they are entitled to upsell the BBBJ or include it at their discretion in private due to seniority but if a new girl does such they have violated the wishes of the tenured ones. For example I was talking to a new one and another long timer told her to stay away that I was a BBBJ guy. Another girl very friendly with the cartel enforcers asked me if I was waiting for a certain girl (they all know I see one in particular all the time) but since that girl has worked there since the Ice Ages all of them knew I was off to get BBBJ so she is exempt from cartel enforcement.
I am not in complete agreement on those who do it for selfish reasons so perhaps to clarify I will break selfish in to two categories. One is that of the guy feeling he found a diamond in the rough and in a time where service levels can be spotty and YMMV all over the place and many girls upelling perhaps it is wise to keep a secret fishing hole to ones self, we do it here all the time too when the waters of competition get Sharky. However the other part is the guy in love, afraid to share his lovers name or possibly constantly posting the name of his obsession and tidbits about her to brag is that of a guy who perhaps belongs on a dating site not in a who*rehouse.
I will simply choose to respectfully disagree with you (ultimately we are all there to have fun not fight) but more importantly your game plan works for you, my game plan works for me so we can all be winners on the same field.
-
[QUOTE=KosherKowboy;2152105]
One is that of the guy feeling he found a diamond in the rough and in a time where service levels can be spotty and YMMV all over the place and many girls upelling perhaps it is wise to keep a secret fishing hole to ones self, we do it here all the time too when the waters of competition get Sharky. However the other part is the guy in love, afraid to share his lovers name or possibly constantly posting the name of his obsession and tidbits about her to brag is that of a guy who perhaps belongs on a dating site not in a who*rehouse.[/QUOTE]I know, those Golem guys will always be around, "my precious" LOL. Hopefully they'll stay in the monority.
-
[QUOTE=KosherKowboy;2152105]I think I would agree with you on the above especially about the Mainhatten girls as it really is a joke when they explain to you the new law and how CBJ is safer and against the law for us ( club rules for them) yet if you give them an extra 50 e suddenly CBJ is safe and they will break the rules/law. From what I noticed in Mainhatten the long time girls I think have an unspoken rule that they are entitled to upsell the BBBJ or include it at their discretion in private due to seniority but if a new girl does such they have violated the wishes of the tenured ones. For example I was talking to a new one and another long timer told her to stay away that I was a BBBJ guy. Another girl very friendly with the cartel enforcers asked me if I was waiting for a certain girl (they all know I see one in particular all the time) but since that girl has worked there since the Ice Ages all of them knew I was off to get BBBJ so she is exempt from cartel enforcement.
I am not in complete agreement on those who do it for selfish reasons so perhaps to clarify I will break selfish in to two categories. One is that of the guy feeling he found a diamond in the rough and in a time where service levels can be spotty and YMMV all over the place and many girls upelling perhaps it is wise to keep a secret fishing hole to ones self, we do it here all the time too when the waters of competition get Sharky. However the other part is the guy in love, afraid to share his lovers name or possibly constantly posting the name of his obsession and tidbits about her to brag is that of a guy who perhaps belongs on a dating site not in a who*rehouse.
I will simply choose to respectfully disagree with you (ultimately we are all there to have fun not fight) but more importantly your game plan works for you, my game plan works for me so we can all be winners on the same field.[/QUOTE]Mainhattan like Oase or Shark are all cheating clubs good for guys from the US or Canada or China but not for German mongers, so many better places but I know that you are a great lover of Dietz / Aldi which is also at least for me a no go club.
-
[QUOTE=KosherKowboy;2151807]I do not understand (well I actually do I have been there been done that and learned from my mistakes) why some of these guys are getting emotionally attached to these girls some to the point of obsession as is the case with one Princess who is not at Oase and it does not take a rocket scientist to figure out who.
[/QUOTE]Apparently a third of mongers need there to be "intimacy":
[URL]http://www.medicaldaily.com/third-men-who-see-prostitutes-crave-emotional-intimacy-not-just-sex-241840[/URL]
-
Girls offering BBFS at a non AO-Club will (and did before the new law) get in trouble and thrown out of the club. Witnessed it a few times. So. Don't mention their names on an open board.
-
March 5th visit
I was in Oase last Monday. Wow, it was so empty. I don't think I see more than 10 guests in the common area at any given point. Met up with another senior member. As you can imagine, I got attacked, in a good way, like crazy. All the girls have been saying that business has been very slow for them, same as the girls at Sharks. It's good for us as all the girls were available but I felt so bad for them sitting around having no room.
[B]Adele[/B] we go way back and she is one of my favorite at Oase. I always have fun in the room with her. She gave a very good massage!
[B]Anna[/B] I am becoming a good friend with her. She is a nice girl. Too bad she got a fever on her BD this past Sunday.
[B]Carla[/B] Adele's roommate, no need to say much, her service is amazing. Siri, please note that they know who you are and she will get with you when she sees you about calling her a frog face, LOL. I find her to be pretty.
[B]Lara[/B] wow, a room with her has been out of this world. I can only put the number of girls in one hand that fits this category and she is one of them. Once she gets to know you, she is a great girl.
A few girls were taking a day off since it was also a slow Sunday. They figured Monday would be bad and it was. Vicky is also back, per Anna, but I didn't get to see her.
-
[QUOTE=BadinSweet;2152504]I was in Oase last Monday. Wow, it was so empty. I don't think I see more than 10 guests in the common area at any given point. Met up with another senior member. As you can imagine, I got attacked, in a good way, like crazy. All the girls have been saying that business has been very slow for them, same as the girls at Sharks. It's good for us as all the girls were available but I felt so bad for them sitting around having no room.
[B]Adele[/B] we go way back and she is one of my favorite at Oase. I always have fun in the room with her. She gave a very good massage!
[B]Anna[/B] I am becoming a good friend with her. She is a nice girl. Too bad she got a fever on her BD this past Sunday.
[B]Carla[/B] Adele's roommate, no need to say much, her service is amazing. Siri, please note that they know who you are and she will get with you when she sees you about calling her a frog face, LOL. I find her to be pretty.
[B]Lara[/B] wow, a room with her has been out of this world. I can only put the number of girls in one hand that fits this category and she is one of them. Once she gets to know you, she is a great girl.
A few girls were taking a day off since it was also a slow Sunday. They figured Monday would be bad and it was. Vicky is also back, per Anna, but I didn't get to see her.[/QUOTE]I am quite jealous of your night, those are some of my favorite girls at Oase. Adele, Anna, and Carla all have such great personalities too. Did not know that Carla and Adele were roommates. It makes sense as they are both very friendly girls and know how to talk to Americans. Anna is one of the few girls in the industry who are truly sweet. Lara, once you get passed her upsell attempts, is the word "sex kitten" embodied.
I only visited Oase the last 2 days of my last trip. I will not make the same mistake again this trip!
-
[QUOTE=BadinSweet;2152504]I was in Oase last Monday. Wow, it was so empty. I don't think I see more than 10 guests in the common area at any given point. Met up with another senior member. As you can imagine, I got attacked, in a good way, like crazy. All the girls have been saying that business has been very slow for them, same as the girls at Sharks. It's good for us as all the girls were available but I felt so bad for them sitting around having no room.
[B]Adele[/B] we go way back and she is one of my favorite at Oase. I always have fun in the room with her. She gave a very good massage!
[B]Anna[/B] I am becoming a good friend with her. She is a nice girl. Too bad she got a fever on her BD this past Sunday..[/QUOTE]We must have similar taste. Those are my fav too. LOL. I was there last week too. I am the one who normally go with my regular, however, on one of odd night, I somehow went to room with a girl named Amanda, slim, pretty face. She was smiling to me.
When ever we have eye contact. At least 2-3 times during my stay that day. It was late night and I was about to call it quit, she came over and asked if we can go to room. I made rookie mistake without asking price and anything. I thought she knew I was not newbie, I would not get those newbie treatment. Totally wrong, As soon as the door shut, her smile is gone and she was doing all sort of upssell. It changed the whole mode, I told her that I did not want sex anymore. Went out and paid her. She knew I was not happy. Strange thing is on the very next day, she asked me if we should go to room again. I am sure she does not have short memory like goldfish. I guess she must think I am the sucker! Any way, I had great time at Oase on this trip. But from time to time, you will get one of those bad apple, I guess.
-
[QUOTE=BadinSweet;2152504][B]Anna[/B] I am becoming a good friend with her. She is a nice girl. Too bad she got a fever on her BD this past Sunday.
[B]Carla[/B] Adele's roommate, no need to say much, her service is amazing. Siri, please note that they know who you are and she will get with you when she sees you about calling her a frog face, LOL. I find her to be pretty.
[B]Lara[/B] wow, a room with her has been out of this world. I can only put the number of girls in one hand that fits this category and she is one of them. Once she gets to know you, she is a great girl.[/QUOTE]Anna is sweet, great service, no upsell.
Never tried Carla, she is too focussed on Asians. A shame the loss in weight did affect her boobs.
Lara does heavy upsell and not even for 100 EUR did she provide good service. YMMV.
-
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2152416]Apparently a third of mongers need there to be "intimacy":[/QUOTE]That includes me on some occasions :). Not sure about the use of word "crave": it is just nice to get on well with a person (and hopefully as a result get better service). This is not the same as obsession, Golem Guys, or mistaking a commercial relationship with a non-commercial one. When I have a Queen I am happy if every other guy keeps her busy. So maybe that is a third category I fall into: not fuck and forget, not obsessive illusions, but sharing a bit more than just sex.
Cheers.