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[QUOTE=Bdonkadonk;2303456]This makes me a little curious, are you planning to go to Thailand anytime soon or at some other point in the future? I see that you are active in the Thailand and Pattaya threads so I guess that you have a wish to go to Thailand. If you ask me I would say that you should go by any means because it is so great there!
I just came back from a one month trip to Pattaya and it was so much fun. Some years ago I never thought that I would go but a friend of mine convinced me and it was the best thing that he could do. I know some guys (mongers) that I got to know in Rio de Janeiro that still hasn't been to Thailand and they are already in their early 60's. I am trying to convince them to go because I know that they will not regret going to Thailand / Pattaya.[/QUOTE]I had to go to Thailand in January but I went to China, Mongolia and North Korea instead of Thailand. I plan to go to Thailand in June 2019 at the latest September 2019. I am living in Brazil and travel to different countries because I like different cultures. Many things to visit in Thailand but I will also monger on the side. I plan to stay 6 weeks in Thailand.
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[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303360]Buying a car is a purely negotiation based industry, yet you do not see everyone driving around in a Mercedes or Lexus. Just like P4P, if you walk in the door with enough money, anyone can get one.[/QUOTE]Comparing the entire p4 p scene to purchasing a motor vehicle is a bit silly and isn't the best analogy imo. If I go to buy a vehicle, I do my homework on the vehicle, go check it out, take it for a test drive and return to sign the papers at the given price or negotiated price and the deal is done. If I go to a gogo, see a top 5 girl I like, call her over, buy her a LD, tell her I'd like to BF her, and she says okay, then goes on stage to perform and another chap calls her over, and the next thing I know, she decides to go with him instead, and I'm sitting there with a wtf look on my face. Similarly if I went to Thermae and walked up to a female I fancy, told her I'd give her the going rate of 2500 thb for ST, and get a No, then I bump it up to 3 k and get a No again, because she's just not interested, didn't like my approach or only goes with Asians. Point is you don't get a NO when buying a Mercedes Benz or Lexus given that you can afford it, and you certainly don't get a car salesman trying to sell the vehicle you just agreed to purchase, to someone else. Of course if you're exceptionally wealthy and offered the girl 10-20 k for ST, she'd probably go with you, no game needed. But you wouldn't pay extra to purchase a Mercedes or Lexus when you can get it at the going rate would you?
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303158] I have always said just to walk up to them and say lets go. If she is trying to earn something then she will go. If she is not then just move on to the next one.[/QUOTE]Using your car analogy and your own strategy as quoted above, if you went up to the car salesman and told him, I want this car will he say NO? Of course not! He wants to make the sale. But in your own admission, a WG may tell you NO when you tell her to go with you, in which case you move on to the next girl.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303158]Most of the chicks that I mess with are freelance. Every now and then I will catch a chick that is freelancing and later find out they work at a gogo bar and it happened to be their day off.[/QUOTE]Your analogy would make more sense in the street freelancer, online freelancer arena, where there's only a negotiation on the price and no game is needed. And I believe that's where you yourself mentioned you monger anyway. Other p4 p scenes like the MP's, BJ Bars, Kapoo Clubs, Smooci, Escort agencies etc, I agree, there's absolutely no game needed, it's PAY for play, there's a set price, no negotiating and no games, you pay and they provide the agreed service, no questions asked.
But at Gogo's, Clubs and joints like Thermae, of course you can easily get laid, but not by the top girls in there consistently at a reasonable price.
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303360]The problem is that you assume everyone wants one.[/QUOTE]You're kidding right? Who doesn't want the hottest girl in a venue if she's within your budget. The question is, will she be willing to go with you or would she choose from the hoards of other mongers also able to pay and want a piece of her prime 9 or 10 ass. Like I asked without response in my previous post, Don't you think the top girls are also selective as to who they go with?
[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303360]Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world, yet he drives around in a Toyota Prius or Ford pickup truck or something. Maybe he doesn't have enough game for them to sell him one of the luxury cars.[/QUOTE]I get your drift, but again this is a weak analogy as it's quite well known that he owns fleets of super-cars, vintage and sports cars. But we could probably liken his wife to the Prius and his fleets to the 9's and 10's haha.
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[QUOTE=Siamsin;2303482]
You're kidding right? Who doesn't want the hottest girl in a venue if she's within your budget. The question is, will she be willing to go with you .....[/QUOTE]My question has been "what's this Princess going to be like back in my room?
I've allready posted that I tend to avoid selecting the most stunning girl in the bar. My reason is very simple: I want a girl to provide an outstanding service not one who only looks great.
Of course I enjoy looking at an attractive girl but I know that the odds are that when she returns to the room her performance will not match that of her pretty but not 1 percenter girlfriends. I find that stunners tend to be less naturally out going in the bar, either very quiet, expecting to be courted or falsely extroverted, dancing and flirting up a storm. Both are serious alert signals to me that actual performance back in the room will be disappointing.
This conversation has focused on simply getting the stunner out the door of the bar rather than what a girl does in the bedroom. The former is required for anything to progress but I find the later the more important and satisfying.
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[QUOTE=MongerForSex;2303363]There are also brothels in Brazil, I always build rapport when I fuck hooker but I still have to pay so I call it negotiation, pay for service or pay for play like Mr E said. To me, it's not game. As a medical professional, my clients build rapport but I still expect them to pay me. When you have a better rapport with your doctor, he treats you better like in every business (restaurant, hotel etc), the same happens to hooker, if your rapport is better, the hooker treats you better.[/QUOTE]Comparing your profession to a WG's profession regarding rapport and payment is also not an ideal comparison. Can a patient who's a first time consult build rapport with you and receive a discount? [B]No![/B] Can you build rapport with a Top WG and negotiate a better rate the first time you meet her? [B]Yes![/B] Can a patient willing to pay your fees be refused treatment? [B]No![/B] Can a top WG refuse your offer to pay the going rate? [B]Yes![/B] Having built up rapport with your repeat patient, will you give them free treatment? [B]No![/B] Having built up rapport with a repeat top WG, can you meet for a freebie or reduced rate session? Possibly [B]Yes![/B] if you've got game.
Nobody said anything about not paying on initial meetings, and I think you guys are confusing street hookers and brothels with top shelf gogo girls and beautiful ordinary girls that freelance on the side in the instance of Thermae, who can choose who they want to go with. If they don't fancy you, they don't even get to the point of discussing fees. They just say [B]NO![/B].
[QUOTE=MongerForSex;2302885]I am just scared not to find a hot Thai woman because I watched many videos about pattaya on Youtube, I rarely saw hot Thai girls in Pattaya, the hottest Thai girls I saw were with Japanese and Korean clients. [/QUOTE]As you've mentioned above, the hottest Thai girls you saw were with Asian guys. Surely it's not because they've paid the girls more but perhaps it's the girls preference. But don't be discouraged, as it is possible to persuade these girls to try non-Asian foreigners. I personally achieved this and was a few girls first non-Asian foreigner which is documented in my trip reports, and I put it down to me having some sort of game.
Reading that you haven't been to Thailand yet, I also encourage you go check the scenes out, and have a blast. There's plenty to do and see, and plenty of girls to do and see.
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[QUOTE=Goferring;2303492]My question has been "what's this Princess going to be like back in my room?
I've allready posted that I tend to avoid selecting the most stunning girl in the bar. My reason is very simple: I want a girl to provide an outstanding service not one who only looks great.
Of course I enjoy looking at an attractive girl but I know that the odds are that when she returns to the room her performance will not match that of her pretty but not 1 percenter girlfriends. I find that stunners tend to be less naturally out going in the bar, either very quiet, expecting to be courted or falsely extroverted, dancing and flirting up a storm. Both are serious alert signals to me that actual performance back in the room will be disappointing.
This conversation has focused on simply getting the stunner out the door of the bar rather than what a girl does in the bedroom. The former is required for anything to progress but I find the later the more important and satisfying.[/QUOTE]Personally I love the challenge. If a girl is a stunner but uptight, I like to break her down before we get into the sack. I'm a lot more playful, jovial and funny. I try to ease her tension and get her into a more comfortable zone by joking, teasing, bantering etc. Once she starts to respond, and sometimes this can take a while, it's going to be a good trip. I hardly put in that much effort with average girls, as usually I'd never want to repeat with them. But with a stunner, I definitely want to give her a good time, knowing she'll reciprocate in kind.
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[QUOTE=MongerForSex;2303469]I had to go to Thailand in January but I went to China, Mongolia and North Korea instead of Thailand. I plan to go to Thailand in June 2019 at the latest September 2019. I am living in Brazil and travel to different countries because I like different cultures. Many things to visit in Thailand but I will also monger on the side. I plan to stay 6 weeks in Thailand.[/QUOTE]Six weeks in Thailand, that should be enough time to see different things and go to places that are worth going to. And also enough time to do some mongering in Thailand. I will keep a lookout for your reports when you are going in June or latest in September. I am curious to hear how you will like Pattaya when you will get there. It's especially interesting to hear from someone going to Pattaya for the first time, what you will think of the place.
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[QUOTE=Siamsin;2303482].....If I go to a gogo, see a top 5 girl I like, call her over, buy her a LD, tell her I'd like to BF her, and she says okay, then goes on stage to perform and another chap calls her over, and the next thing I know, she decides to go with him instead, and I'm sitting there with a wtf look on my face.....[/QUOTE]The hypothetical you should have paid the BF before she got up. Any car (or girl) on the lot is for sale until cash is received. Repeated test drives (or drinks) mean nothing until a downpayment is received.
A while ago I was a regular patron of a primary dancer in a Philippine club. Gorgeous girl and bat-shit crazy enough to be spectacular in bed. The only down side was that she wasnt allowed to leave the premises before midnight. One night I walked in mid way through the evening and sat down. She got up from the table of guys buying her drinks and came over to me knowing I would BF her there and then. Which I immediately did saying I would be back later to collect her. She then went back to the guys expecting everything to be ok and for the drinking and flirting to continue. As I said, she wasn't the brightest. Needless to say her suitor erupted at her: "WTF was that? I've been buying you drinks all night". Her reply was simply "You snooze, you loose!
Maybe a prick act on my part but in many ways she was right. Just as there was nothing stopping her cementing a deal, there was nothing to stop her sitting there all night only to have John decide he was going home alone.
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[QUOTE=Siamsin;2303497]But with a stunner, I definitely want to give her a good time, knowing she'll reciprocate in kind.[/QUOTE]Valid point. I don't want to give the impression that I think NO stunner can be good in the sack.
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Day 3: Beer Bars.
I slept in as usual and surfaced to have a good walk around Soi Buakhao. There was a few beer bars behind LK Metro and many in the side Soi's. Lots of cheap massage joints and a strip of gents' barbers for those that enjoy a morning close shave. YouTube's Cheap Charlie was out taking shots / video of the Metro / Baukhoa area but I didn't stop as it would be a bad idea for me to be in a public video inspecting hooker bars. 😉.
Early evening I met up wih another subscriber and after we had a light dinner went back to Buakhao. In the evening hours they were still very quiet. I'm guessing the combination of low season and the approaching Songkran. Most of the bars were not worthy of a stop, full of older ladies. One of the side Sois did have a bar with pool tables and younger attractive girls so we stopped for drinks there. The girls were definitely cute but were sharing one neuron between the lot of them. He wanted ST (500+2000 B) and I LT (1000+4000 B) but after two games of pool my IQ was dropping by the minute in sympathy so we wandered off. It's a shame because the girls were sure attractive but I couldn't tolerate any more than a few minutes with them.
Enjoy. G.
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[QUOTE=Goferring;2303513]I slept in as usual and surfaced to have a good walk around Soi Buakhao. There was a few beer bars behind LK Metro and many in the side Soi's. Lots of cheap massage joints and a strip of gents' barbers for those that enjoy a morning close shave. YouTube's Cheap Charlie was out taking shots / video of the Metro / Baukhoa area but I didn't stop as it would be a bad idea for me to be in a public video inspecting hooker bars. 😉.
Early evening I met up wih another subscriber and after we had a light dinner went back to Buakhao. In the evening hours they were still very quiet. I'm guessing the combination of low season and the approaching Songkran. Most of the bars were not worthy of a stop, full of older ladies. One of the side Sois did have a bar with pool tables and younger attractive girls so we stopped for drinks there. The girls were definitely cute but were sharing one neuron between the lot of them. He wanted ST (500+2000 B) and I LT (1000+4000 B) but after two games of pool my IQ was dropping by the minute in sympathy so we wandered off. It's a shame because the girls were sure attractive but I couldn't tolerate any more than a few minutes with them.
Enjoy. G.[/QUOTE]Dude you are the most patient guy on the planet. Hope you get laid soon. Do it for me!
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2303515]Dude you are the most patient guy on the planet. Hope you get laid soon. Do it for me![/QUOTE]Hahahah. I'd agree my posts haven't been the usual bull-in-a-China-shop typical of a new arrival. I've just come off 7 weeks in the Philippines so I've enjoyed bar hopping rather than desperately adding notches to the bed post.
No complaints from my side.
Cheers. G.
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[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2303360]Buying a car is a purely negotiation based industry, yet you do not see everyone driving around in a Mercedes or Lexus. Just like P4P, if you walk in the door with enough money, anyone can get one. The problem is that you assume everyone wants one. Bill Gates is one of the richest men in the world, yet he drives around in a Toyota Prius or Ford pickup truck or something. Maybe he doesn't have enough game for them to sell him one of the luxury cars.
It is PAY for play, not game for play. Again, there is no need to weasel (or game) someone into YOU PAYING for their goods or services. That sounds ridiculous.[/QUOTE]The negotiation involved in buying a car is all about price. If you refuse to negotiate (play the game) and just hand them the full sticker price you will still get the same car the next negotiating fellow gets but for more money. Yes, even factoring in undercoating and the upgraded stereo.
Same with the purchase of a shirt at Robinsons, a Big Mac at McDs or any of the other comparisons and analogies to a P4P transaction the "I don't play games" side always makes. There is an equal, standard, expected and delivered result regardless of whether you chat first or say nothing at all, pay upfront or pay after they hand it to you, showered that morning or haven't showered in a month, etc.
But not so in the Thai P4P scene. Maybe in some unique brothel in another country. But not in Thailand with Thai girls. UNLESS, as I concluded in my previous post, you really don't care about the difference between having sex with a 2 vs a 10, only getting covered FS vs DFK+DATY+BBBJ+BBFS+CIP with some consistency. Otherwise, you'll need to play the game by negotiating, showering that morning, refusing to Pay Upfront, etc. for there to be any chance of you experiencing more of the latter than the former on a consistent basis.
I suppose getting only covered FS without any extras and with girls 6 or below is about as close to the kind of standard "shirt or Big Mac" result you can expect in the Thai P4P scene. Anyone ought to be able to cruise around town, point, only say "Let's go" and make that happen fairly consistently without applying more game to it than that.
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To Siamsin.
Let's be simpler.
Hooker is a hooker. In Brazil, there are many clubs with many freelancers where you can negotiate the price especially in Sao Paulo.
Can you build rapport with a non working girl and negotiate a better rate the first time you meet her? No, she is not hooker.
Can a non working girl refuse your offer to pay the going rate? Yes, because she doesn't like to be considered like a hooker.
Can you meet a non working girl for a freebie or reduced rate session? No because she is not a hooker, you fuck her without paying cash the first time you had sex with. So no need to repeat to fuck for a freesbie.
I go to a good restaurant after 5 meals, they give me one free meal.
Don't forget, you only deal with hookers and they all need money, they need money for their farm, lazy husband or / and unwanted children. It's not because you are fat like teddy bear, you look like a member of yakuza or you have blue eyes with yellow hair, they will run after you. They just run after your wallet because they know you are a potential client.
In my other post (the best looking girls were with asian guys because I find they have better taste. But I also saw asian guys with hags). But that doesn't mean they are the best looking girls, I just find them better looking but other people will find them average. I prefer Vietnamese girls over Thai girls but Vietnam is a conservative country. Thailand has many things to offer outside of mongering. I am happy about my sexual life and live in the most open country when it comes to sex, sex is not tabboo here. I don't need travel miles only to have sex with farmers, Thailand is culturally rich, many activities to do, good food, good atmpsphere like scenes and many other things.
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[QUOTE=Siamsin;2303340]Exactly my point Tooms, agree 100%.[/QUOTE]Siamsin, the earlier incarnation of this kind of discussion was between the punters who said they hate to negotiate and punters like me who said but you are always negotiating a "better result" for yourself even if it is nothing more than a smile, a joke and flattering words.
It was posts like yours that helped further the point that all of these forms of negotiation are also playing the game.
As males we might long for the days when it was no more complicated than chasing down the females in the tall grass and pouncing on them. But civilized society forbids such a simple approach, even if you toss money at the lady.
Instead, we play games in the form of appearance, approach, demeanor, negotiation, charm, courting, kowtowing and money in some degree, even in strictly P4 P and regardless if we pound our chest and deny that we do.
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[QUOTE=EihTooms;2303528]But not so in the Thai P4P scene. Maybe in some unique brothel in another country. But not in Thailand with Thai girls. UNLESS, as I concluded in my previous post, you really don't care about the difference between having sex with a 2 vs a 10, only getting covered FS vs DFK+DATY+BBBJ+BBFS+CIP with some consistency. Otherwise, you'll need to play the game by negotiating, showering that morning, refusing to Pay Upfront, etc. for there to be any chance of you experiencing more of the latter than the former on a consistent basis.[/QUOTE]You have changed the whole argument. The argument was about being able to pick up the hooker. You have changed it to getting the hooker to do the special things that you want. Not the same thing.