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[QUOTE=Goyave;1140261]Yep! 3K baht, that's about 10 ST sessions on premises in several local brothels, but as I usually give a decent tip (by local standards) or incentive for good or extra service (anal, for instance), that's what I pay for 5 or 6 decent sessions with super cute young ladies.[/QUOTE]Do we have reports on such places? I would like to check out some real local venues.
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[QUOTE=Chill Out;1140782]Do we have reports on such places? I would like to check out some real local venues.[/QUOTE]Sure! Have a look at the [url="http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2859-Isaan-Region-(including-Udon-Thani-KK-Khorat)"]Isaan Region thread[/url], for instance.
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Oh. I thought you were talking about BKK venues.
I might do a trip to Isaan one day, not this time though.
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[QUOTE=Mr Enternational; 1140574]You need to pull her card.
One of my pros called me the other morning. I went into pimp mode. I called her a liar and told her to get out of my room. I told her that she was not welcomed in my presence if she was not always 100% honest with me.
I told her. I explained to her. I told her. I took her phone. I told her.[/QUOTE]A pro. A prostitute. Hooker. Accept the poor girl for what she is. No need to get off a beatdown. When her lips are moving, you ought to know what to assume.
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[QUOTE=Chill Out;1140790]Oh. I thought you were talking about BKK venues.
I might do a trip to Isaan one day, not this time though.[/QUOTE]
Several venues that are mainly patronized by the locals are also mentioned in the Bangkok Reports thread, but it's not the same kind of venues. The cheapest option in Bangkok is probably Chinatown (cheap hookers), but you might want to visit the Saphan Kwai area too (Thai-style go-go bars).
About Chinatown (for instance):
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2677-Bangkok-Reports&p=999647#post999647[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2677-Bangkok-Reports&p=999648#post999648[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2677-Bangkok-Reports&p=999649#post999649[/url]
About Saphan Kwai (for instance):
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2677-Bangkok-Reports&p=883053#post883053[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2677-Bangkok-Reports&p=903969#post903969[/url]
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2677-Bangkok-Reports&p=904081#post904081[/url]
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Thanks for all the linking Goyave, much appreciated!
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[QUOTE=Borat69;1140573]Anyway I think should just text her and just say I want to see you can you come tonight 2k ST. If she says yes, then I know it was transactional from the start, no point waiting for her to contact me[/QUOTE]Bloody overpayer! LOL.
[QUOTE=Mr Enternational;1140574]One of my pros called me the other morning about 8am wanting to come over. She said 5 minutes but was here in less than that. I went downstairs to get her and as soon as we got back to my room her phone sounded. I told her to answer it. She refused and that is when I went into pimp mode. I called her a liar and told her to get out of my room. I told her that she was not welcomed in my presence if she was not always 100% honest with me. She finally admitted that it was an Arab guy who she had given her number to the night before.[/QUOTE]Good post MrE, that's spot on, thai girls don't respect weak guys, she wanted to come over to you, and you gave her the options.
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[QUOTE=Goyave;1140797]you might want to visit the Saphan Kwai area too (Thai-style go-go bars).[/QUOTE]I would advise against going there alone, it is very easy in the thai Style Bars to make a "Bad move" and face furious Thai guys so better to there with either a Thai or an Expat (speaking thai is a Big Plus).
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[QUOTE=NicFrenchy;1140868]I would advise against going there alone, it is very easy in the thai Style Bars to make a "Bad move" and face furious Thai guys so better to there with either a Thai or an Expat (speaking thai is a Big Plus).[/QUOTE]
It's true that the Thai-oriented P4P places are not for everyone. You should at least speak some basic Thai and know how to behave among the locals in establishments that are not tourist-oriented. By the way, that's basically what is said in [url="http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?2677-Bangkok-Reports&p=883053#post883053"]Rocksoff's report[/url] that one would find (and hopefully read too!) by clicking on the first link that was mentioned about Saphan Kwai in my previous post.
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[QUOTE=Goyave; 1140288]Obviously, you don't know those places very well (and that's an understatement!). Ok, most brothels (but not all of them) are filthy, and that's true that many Thai males don't believe in precautions, but that's probably the only points that are not contestable in your post.
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About HIV prevalence in the local brothels, it's difficult to find reliable information, but in this.
[url="http://www.thaiscience.info/Article%20for%20ThaiScience/Article/6/Ts-6%20access%20to%20hiv%20testing%20for%20sex%20workers%20in%20bangkok,%20thailand%20a%20high%20prevalence%20of%20hiv%20among%20street-based%20sex%20workers.pdf"]study[/url]
, it is stated that [i]"the HIV prevalences among the street-based sex workers, brothel-based sex workers and other women [. ] were 45. 8% (38/83) .4. 2% (10/236) and 9. 9% (28/284)"[/i]. Of course, those figures should be taken with a pinch of salt, as only 684 women were tested, and in Bangkok only, but it's interesting to notice that HIV prevalence is much lower among the sex workers that are brothel-based. [/QUOTE]Goyave,
Thanks for this info. Indeed I do not know these places well. No offense taken at all. We all have to cop some disagreement and criticism at times, especially when I (and others) put out feelings that are not strictly based on fact. Mostly your reply is not violently disagreeing. Its good to learn something from your experience in this area. I do mostly Soapies / Oilies and some bargirls. My time and opportunities are a bit limited. I can speak Thai, so do go to some very Thai oriented Soapies at times.
The figures you publish are interesting and of course I take them with a grain of salt. I struggle to accept that 45% of street walkers are HIV positive, while I accept that they will higher due to lack of health checks. The other problem is that HIV girls are presumably mostly forced out of brothels / MPs. Fortunately I don't normally pick up girls in the street. The problem with the brothel based figures are that I presume they are lumping all types in together, including higher class soapies, etc.
Lastly, I don't have PM on purpose. I don't want to field silly questions directed specifically at me, assuming I am the expert. If a guy has a sensible question, he should ask the whole forum. Then the person who wants to answer, can do so. I also wish to remain anonymous and not meet up with others on the forum (in general). I don't really need a "wingman" to do my mongering. So I prefer everything useful to be out in the normal forum.
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[QUOTE=Syzygies;1140902]Lastly, I don't have PM on purpose. I don't want to field silly questions directed specifically at me, assuming I am the expert. If a guy has a sensible question, he should ask the whole forum. Then the person who wants to answer, can do so. I also wish to remain anonymous and not meet up with others on the forum (in general). I don't really need a "wingman" to do my mongering. So I prefer everything useful to be out in the normal forum.[/QUOTE]See, that's the point of PM. To avoid posting on the open Forum, stuff no one gives a shit about.
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[QUOTE=Golfinho;1140793]A pro. A prostitute. Hooker. Accept the poor girl for what she is. No need to get off a beatdown. When her lips are moving, you ought to know what to assume.[/QUOTE]What's the point of stating worn cliches. Not all pro are liars and not all liars are pro. If one establishes some kind of relationship one the basis of being truthful, it is right to react if the pact is broken. I got bashed when my girls found that I lied or fucked around too much. That is right and I deserved it. Mr E. got a freebie for teaching the girl a lesson so more power to him.
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[QUOTE=Syzygies;1140902]... No offense taken at all....[/QUOTE]
I'm glad that you have not been offended.
[QUOTE=Syzygies;1140902]... I struggle to accept that 45% of street walkers are HIV positive, while I accept that they will higher due to lack of health checks. The other problem is that HIV girls are presumably mostly forced out of brothels / MPs. Fortunately I don't normally pick up girls in the street. The problem with the brothel based figures are that I presume they are lumping all types in together, including higher class soapies, etc. ...[/QUOTE]
Yes, as I wrote in my earlier post, it's difficult to find reliable data on this matter. Of course the percentages mentioned in this study concern only a relatively small number of women that were tested in Bangkok a few years ago. They are certainly not absolute truths, but it gives (roughly) a general idea about the situation regarding HIV prevalences in various kinds of venues.
About the street walkers, I suppose that those that were mentioned in this study were exclusively working on the streets, which is not the case for the occasional freelancers nor for certain bar and go-go girls that one can sometimes find also there. By the way, many "real" street walkers don't work in the tourist-oriented P4P areas, but in other parts of the town that are less known by the foreigners. Therefore, we probably have a biased view of the phenomenon.
Two articles that are not totally unrelated:
[url]http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/health/202984/following-in-mother-footsteps[/url]
[url]http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/investigation/27077/confessions-of-an-hiv-positive-prostitute[/url]
And yes, it's not clearly said which establishments are considered as "brothels" in this study. Maybe it also includes high-end massage parlors, but I don't think that there is a big difference regarding HIV prevalence between these establishments and the cheap brothels. Customers who really want to indulge in bareback sex would be able to do that also in the high-end places (they will just offer more money for the privilege). You might have noticed that it's not difficult, for those who want to pay a premium, to find for instance an escort girl who would oblige. In the high-end places, the average customer has much more money than most guys who patronized the local cheap brothels, and therefore, much more power to get what they want from the providers.
In the other website mentioned earlier (about Thailand's 100% Condom Program), it is stated that [i]"the percentage of commercial sex acts where condoms were used increased from 15% to over 90%"[/i]. But also that [i]"since the program was primarily aimed at commercial sex establishments, condom use never became part of the public discussion. The result of that is that today, most new HIV cases are seen in married women"[/i].
I know several Thai men who actually use condoms when they "visit" the local cheap brothels. I also know many foreigners who don't (most of the time), and that's the case for most of my Farang friends here (who are much older than me). And those guys patronize all kinds of venues...
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[QUOTE=Borat69; 1140419]I'm curious if anyone has dated a pro. The general consensus is this is bad news, and alot of lies or cheating. People getting scammed sponsoring girls etc.
I'm not in a relationship with a pro, and I never sponsored anyone. But I met a girl who I actually like. Her story: only worked for a couple of months, doing it for money after losing a professional job, and only working once a week etc etc. Freelancer apparently. But for all I know, the whole thing is her usual patter and made up. She seemed rather 'cool' about her job considering she's done it 2 months.
After our encounter she suggested to do stuff together outside her work, go on a date etc. I asked her if she prefers I pay or seeing / dating her, and she said it was up to me. And of course, I'm tempted by the latter.
Since I saw her a few days ago, I've been trying to arrange a meetup again. She's been 'very busy' with 'friends'. I asked her if it's because of her work, she said no, that it's some 'friend' visiting from out of town. But to me I can't help think she's just working and to just cut contact. Am I being cynical? [/QUOTE]I've been there. It's not that cool. If you want a girlfriend, get a non-pro. There's plenty of them who will be happy to meet you.
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[QUOTE=Goyave;1141142]You might have noticed that it's not difficult, for those who want to pay a premium, to find for instance an escort girl who would oblige. In the high-end places, the average customer has much more money than most guys who patronized the local cheap brothels, and therefore, much more power to get what they want from the providers.[/QUOTE]Ah no, I don't really notice because I take my own condoms (Comfort or similar) so its plain to girls I am not looking for bareback FS. Also I have known plenty of girls who say that they don't do bareback FS at all regardless of price (but I realise we can't believe them all). Some girls do consider BBFS to be risking their life. Others are fatalistic and do lots of stupid things.
I do believe a high percentage of HIV+ Thai women have caught it from their normal partner (husband, boyfriend, GIK, etc.). Unfortunately, women catch it from men much more easily/quickly (statistically) than the reverse.
Your Bangkok Post quoted article is interesting in that it shows that the freelance scene is probably spreading HIV rapidly. I certainly wouldn't risk not using a condom and rarely take any freelancers. Of course young girls coming to Bangkok are not well educated. They don't seem to realise that with BBFS its only a matter of time before they will be HIV+. They are not trained in statistics, probabilities, etc. When I question working girls to test their knowledge of sexual things, I find most of them have poor knowledge. The Thai education system still covers these topics poorly due to social taboos. Girls don't even understand all the things they could do to avoid pregnancy. Girls are mostly told by parents "don't have sex till you get married". Now how much use is that? The parents know nothing at all!