No doubt Stevie is speaking from his own experience. He just forgot to mention that he is Ricky Martin's identical twin brother..
Printable View
No doubt Stevie is speaking from his own experience. He just forgot to mention that he is Ricky Martin's identical twin brother..
[QUOTE=Hecker]Old foreigners date average girls. Very average and they have to pay for dates. In Kiev average young girls are available for older foreigners[/QUOTE]
On average yes. But supermodel young girls are availabe to old foreigners (and old locals) who have the $$.
[quote=stevie69]to summarize, there is no reason to pay for sex in kiev, at least not directly, unless you are really intent on getting your ultimate fantasy girl and do not mind paying 300 usd for potentially horrible sex with a gorgeous body. i was there for 10 days, so i had time but really, the time from first contact to sex was a couple of hours at best, and under 48 hours at worst, in most cases within 24 hours. if you are there for just a few days, you might have to do things differently.[/quote]good report stevie69!
i agree with much of what is said in general, and actually has been said on this forum many times before by regular posters.
i also agree with ash though that your report is overly optimistic on some points, for example time between first contact and sex being under 24 hours. sometimes yes, but "on average" ? even if that may have actually been your experience, it's hardly typical. it can often be tough to get a 2nd date/contact within 24 hours, considering their schedules... and your own.
[quote=stevie69]
ninety percent of the women you see will be hotter and sexier than your wife, girlfriend or ex-girlfriend back home. [/quote]maybe you should find new girlfriends back home. just a thought.
[quote=stevie69]
you will soon realize that it is okay to strike up a conversation with a beautiful woman, and that often she will actually be flattered by the attention and welcome a little flirtation. that is how life should always be! [/quote]depends on your definition of beautiful. in the upper beautiful category, she gets a ton of attention every time she leaves the apartment. it’ll take more than a little attention to spark her interest.
[quote=stevie69]
if you are a 20 year old hot-shot who will not be satisfied unless you fuck every hot babe you see, you will be miserable. [/quote]35 is a much better age to score hotties in ee than 20. life is great.
[quote=stevie69]from the minute you leave your apartment or hotel to the time you get back (hopefully with a girl) you will see a stunningly beautiful woman every 30 seconds. i have actually taken data on this; it is absolutely astounding! [/quote]you are still in rookie mode if you still believe this. ee and particularly kiev are full of hotties… but stunner every 30 seconds? come on. their bodies are great, their faces often very average.[quote=stevie69]any opening line will do! the key is to make that first contact, just like anywhere, except that here the babes are far better looking and more open to your advances. a simple and direct: “hello, my name is ____” with an offer of a handshake works perfectly fine. it identifies you as a foreigner, and as being respectful of women. [/quote]true enough that any opening line is fine. point is to make contact. shaking hands is not really done between men and women in ee, but i suppose it doesn’t hurt. they’ll know you are a foreigner anyway by your speech.[quote=stevie69]when you are out with an eastern woman, she will make you feel like you are the king of the world. she will look hot and she will be with you! she will dance for you, hang by your arm, attract but ignore potential suitors, and make other man there wish he were you. [/quote]generally true, but never forget that if you want to get serious with your ee princess, by her nature she is inclined to trade you off for something better if she gets the chance. and yes, many of them will flirt with other guys while you go to the toilet/get a drink/make a call on your phone because if she is hot, she is getting hit on by other guys, particularly the locals especially if they are obviously some sort of local player. if she is so enamored and impressed by you after an afternoon together with your smalltalk, walk in the park and 15 words of russian, how do you think she is with a guy with even better game or offers her a more long-term perspective? just sayin’. if she’s that hot, she’s been here before or is looking to get there. just roll with it.[quote=stevie69]you just have to be shameless and talk to them. yes, occasionally, some will be ***** princesses and not talk back, but unlike back home, you can tell them to fuck off! do not worry, they are not friends of friends whom you will meet at the next office party! [/quote]you do have to be shameless and one does have to have a thick skin, because you will sometimes get brushed off or ignored. hope you are being figurative in saying fuck off. literally saying it will make you some “new friends” sooner or later. besides, just because she doesn't want to talk to you doesn't mean she is a ***** princess. maybe she just isn't interested. people in ee don't apologize for anything, they just do what they feel. girls included. they assume their actions will get the message across.[quote=stevie69]
they would look up, smile, speak a little english among themselves, just to make the point that they could. [/quote]that’s honestly never happened to me, it certainly isn’t typical. she must have been pretty interested in you.[quote=stevie69]
out of the 25 girls i had lined up, after much effort and many phone calls, i ended up meeting only 4, only one of which i liked. unfortunately, these girls are far more interesting than the walkers, but it is just not worth the trouble. [/quote]
pre-arranged dates often fall through, that’s why you should always have plan b, c, d…
[quote=stevie69]one last thing. shooters is a racist establishment. they decided i was arab (am i? it does not matter, that is the point, and yes, i understand a few words) and did not let me in. say no to racism, with your wallet. [/quote]shooter is full of “arabs” or other dark-skinned people any day of the week. call it racism i suppose, but i guess they just didn’t like your face. that can happen anywhere.
in any case man, thanks for the detailed report! i'm jealous, need to get back to kiev soon...
From Herr and Stevie, after reading Herr's post, I thought, is this what Kiev has become, guys who visit, resort to calling Gia and MT, and end up paying $300 for two hours with a gia girl, this is something I would never do. After reading Stevies post I felt it was; somewhat, too rosie. But, I haven't caroused in Kiev since 10-03, so I really don't know the situation there; but, I live in east Ukraine for 4 years already. The beauty of the girls, yes of course, many beauties, but one can see a lot of fat ones as well, the local diet is full of fatty foods and they fry everthing, it eventually catches up to many of them.
Approaching the girls, stevie is right act like a man and go for it, but if rejected, never, ever would I say f--- off, or something of that nature, I simply walk away, it's no big deal, happens to everyone, just go with it. Looks matter to these girls, and if your just average looking like me, well ok, I'm above average looking, but that's not the point, the point is you need to look and dress good, at all times, clean yourself up, well groomed, everyone mentions shoes, but it's not only shoes, these girls notice everthing, nice shoes, watch, shirt, ironed pants, mobile, purse, everything matters, and pay attention to these details. One thing I do now, is only approach girls who give me a few possitive non verble singles first, then if interested I make the move, and ommunicate is vital. I am not just talking about speaking Russian, you need to know how to communicate with these girls, these girls operate on emotions, so excit them! Make them happy, sad, laugh, tell them exciting (SHORT) stories, make good eye contact, look at them like your totally interested in them, and listen, listen and listen when they are talking, even if you know it's total bull shit and you're bored out of your mind, act like your totally interested. Excite thier emotions and these girls well want to see you again and again.
[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]
For any of you who have not heard, and for those who want a more recent re-telling, the "loose money / dropped wallet" scam is still alive and well in Kiev.
I was walking from Maidan Independence to metro Teatralna around 7pm when a guy comes up and asks for Pushinskaya street (which we were standing on). I gave him my standard response, in Russian "I don't know. I'm a foreigner, " and he took off ahead of me, dropping a billfold in a plastic baggie from his shoulder bag.
Having read about this trick, I did not pick it up, but shouted to him "Hey, this is yours. " (All this in Russian. Maybe not grammatically correct, but comprehensible.)
The guy picks it up, thanks me. Shakes my hand and walks off. A second guy comes along (I later conclude he is part of the scam), and asks me about the first guy. "What happened? " He also asks where I'm from. I tell him I'm from the USA and he tells me his brother works as a taxi dispatcher in Brooklyn. (Plausible if you've ever been to Brooklyn).
On cue, the first guy reappears and asks the two of us if we found his pen! His pen, for heavens sake! No we didn't find your pen. Fifteen seconds later he's back and asks if we found another packet of his money. On cue, miraculously, a third guy appears, flashes his wallet ID and declares himself to be militsia (he is in uniform). He's obviously the accomplice of the first guy and they start their routine demanding to see my money "to see if it's his lost money. "
At this point, to my utter surprise, the second guy, the one "with a brother in Brooklyn, " opens his wallet, shows them and me a single U. S one hundred dollar bill and the grifter announces magnanimously that its not his. It takes me a minute to realize that the second guy has opened his wallet only to encourage me to open my wallet.
At this point, even though I know it's a scam, I forget the good advice posted in this forum.- where you demand to go to the police station.- and I figure I can talk my way out of it. All I have on me at the time is 300 grivna which I have just gotten from an ATM on Maidan. (That's probably where they spotted me). I tell them I have money but it's not his money. I tell them, in Russian, that I have a bankomat receipt for exactly the money in my pocket. I take it out, show the receipt, keep the guy from grabbing the money and put it back in my pocket.
Meanwhile I'm trying to make the guy say what money he lost. I tell him to write down what money he lost. I tell the militsia to write down what money we're supposed to be looking for, but the guy keeps demanding to see my wallet. I take some change out of my other pants pocket and I show it to him one coin a at time. One kopek, is this yours? I ask. I show it to the militsia. Is this his? A five kopek piece? Is this yours? (I'm trying to be sarcastic, but my Russian is not really that good.)
I keep this up, one coin at a time, until they begin to pull back. Then I tell them I have twenty dollars in my wallet and I show them my wallet. (Luckily I paid for my apartment that morning). They pull back. The first grifter apologizes and walks off. The militsia has already disappeared. The third guy, who I now peg for an accomplice, says good bye.
You can see why they run the scam: even if you are on to them, even if you don't pick up the money, even if you don't have much money on you, they have nothing to lose. Even if you insist on going to the police station, they merely risk the embarrassment of looking like bozos in front of the thieves/cops with whom they work. Still, next time that's what I'll do. If I have the presence of mind.
The other thing that makes sense is this: if you see the money on the ground, turn around and walk away, and find the militsia before he finds you. Tell him there is a thief up ahead.
[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]
Yes, I saw that too. I suspect it was scam, but I avoided it by not being too honest, at least in thought. They guy dropped the money and I picked it up and followed him, for about a minute. He eventually turned around and I immediately gave him the money. He seemed thankful and then quickly pointed out he had 2 sets of bills. I shouted at him, in english telling him I knew the same and just walked away. He kept looking at me, and I quickly disappeared. I figure it was a legitimate error which he tried to turn into a scam (unlikely, but possible), or his colleague just had not kept up and by the time he turned he was alone. Yes, in the back of my mind I was thinking that if he did not eventually turn around I might keep the money, but luckily I did not have to make that decision.
About the other comment of things being too rosy. Well, RP girls ask for 300-400 USD sometimes, a "student" at Mandarin plaza wanted 300 EUro (or 400 USD), and all the girls parading around mandarin plaza and at the disco want at least 300 (photo included). The key is to use these obvious tourist places only to look, but conduct your search elsewhere. There are perfectly beautiful girls everywhere, who might be more reasonable about money, or want more than just your money.
one last thing. i did not imply act list an ass if you get turned down, but i do hate it when girls will not even bother to turn you down and simply look away, which yes, does happen. i am sorry, but rudeness begets rudeness; "turn the other cheek" is not my motto. anybody, man or woman, who ignores someone trying to talk to you, is simply a rude ass.
about being judged by your appearance, i was referring mostly to pros, or gold diggers. if it obvious you are trying and wearing your best suit, they will likely look at everything and a cheap suit might nullify the effects of an expensive watch, but with so many things to focus on, maybe they concentrate on the key ones. i do get the impression that shoes are important. why shoes? i do not know. women seem to be obsessed with shoes.
with non pros i had good success at the beach, wearing nothing but shorts (why do men there wear speedos?- it is unsightly!), or walking around main street dressed as a tourist (dress shorts, t-shirt, sneakers and camera).
It seems I generated a lot of criticisms, comments and discussion. It would be nice to have comprehensive reports as well. Maybe all these afterthoughts by me can be combined into a single reply?
About Shooters being racist, racism is not defined by the official policy, but rather by actions. Now that your friend is aware that the goons outside are setting up their own policies maybe he will take action. What action? well the goons could be fired. The outside sign saying that "face control in in effect, no questions asked" could be removed and replaced by a phone number foreigners could call to report such incidences. A specific dress code could be put in effect instead of a vague "face control".
The first thing the bouncers asked is whether I was tourist and then where I was from before calling someone and telling me I could not go in. The right lines are "welcome to shooters, please come in". It is a shame. I heard Shooters was good and the way I was treated at the door marred an otherwise great trip.
I disagre that sb should tell women to fuck off because they will gradually harden their attirude and start telling tourists to fuck off.Who would dare to have the same attitude in a western country for example to go to UK or Germany and tell the local girls to fuck off?
These people learn and learn fast and soon the moving of head to other direction will turn to blaming and conflict.There is enough damage foreigners have caused.
As for face control I never have had any problems.Mostly girls get rejected in high class clubs like Decadance if they do not look like models.
In order for a man to be rejected,well it goes a long way.
If sb inside the club suspects that you are an Arab or a Turk and grabs you,deny it and have your passport ready to prove that you are not Arab.If you give proper explanations,there is no problem.(since now).
It is always good to pass as a Pole in Ukraine and as an Ukrainian in Poland if they do not bother asking you where you are from.
Anyway this is my piece of advice.
[QUOTE=Stevie69]The outside sign saying that "face control in in effect, no questions asked" could be removed and replaced by a phone number foreigners could call to report such incidences. A specific dress code could be put in effect instead of a vague "face control".
[/QUOTE]If it happened to me I'd be pissed too. It has happened to me in Russia on rare occasion, but never in Ukraine. But besides your individual problem and the annoyance one feels when directly affected by it, there is nothing wrong with face control per se. It is there for a reason. Nobody has an inherent right to enter a club. It's not the public library.
If some doormen are abusing their power to express their racist frustrations, then I agree that it is pretty sad. Could also very well be that the management doesn't want too many of any particular foreign race or type of people to dominate the place. If it becomes too Turkish, too African, too hip-hop, too casual, too English or even too German for that matter, it could be the end of the club in terms of women coming, who are the honey pot that attracts more foreigners who like to waste their money on drinks and women. Every club has a target audience and Shooters is definitely mixed race with a mixture of foreign guys and locals who want to party.
And even if it were racism, do you really think anybody in Ukraine cares? Write a letter to the Kiev Post.
What about ugly girls getting rejected at the door or guys wearing ratty shoes? Is there a number they can call too?
That's business and believe it or not, that's the way it is done in most places. Shooters is harmless compared to some of the more upscale clubs.
I would say that in the upscale clubs security is ONLY interested in how loaded you are, and possibly whether the chick you're with comes up to scratch.
Shooters is not especially expensive and therefore accessible to local, average-earning Ukrainian guys. Hence there is probably some latent desire in the bouncers to bias things in favour of their countrymen. Not ideal, but that's life.
I'm sure most ordinary Ukrainians would be truly shocked that foreign guys are being prevented from entering clubs and chasing their women.. ;)
I stop reading the forum for two days and see a flurry of messages. :)
Here's a couple of points I'd like to make.
1) Only a chump shakes hands with a girl. Unless its business.
2) You are a little off on your taxi prices. I think locals are paying 110uah to/from the airport. 20-30uah will get you anywhere in the center and 50uah will take you anywhere the metro goes.
3) EE girls tend to be more slender then most western girls and tend to dress sexy otherwise they are about the same. I don't know about you but the American and Western European girls I have dated have been as attractive as any girl I've seen in Kyiv.
4) You talk a lot about not having to pay for sex but you don't mention actually having any. ;)
5) Oh, and one of my friends who is American (went to HS in the US) but is of Middle Eastern heritage got the bum rush from Shooters too.
6) Unless you are at the beach EE girls do not like men to wear shorts.
I might "have" to stay at Premier Palace sometime later this month for work reasons. I assume they are still girl-friendly and have a couple of overpriced lobby girls as well?
Anybody with current experience with this hotel?[QUOTE=Cruiser D]I stop reading the forum for two days and see a flurry of messages. :)
[/QUOTE]We missed you, that's all. Now get back to work.
[QUOTE=Cruiser D]1) Only a chump shakes hands with a girl. Unless its business.
[/QUOTE]Even in business it is considered quite awkward.[QUOTE=Cruiser D]5) Oh, and one of my friends who is American (went to HS in the US) but is of Middle Eastern heritage got the bum rush from Shooters too.[/QUOTE]Maybe Shooters does have a problem, yet every time I've been there it's been very international... like a UN convention, and Turkey had the chair. It sounds like the management is trying to maintain balance to me, which is a good thing even for Turkish and ME mongers. Too many of your own countrymen in one place will definitely spoil the soup, and that pretty much goes for all nationalities.
[quote=stevie69]one last thing. i did not imply act list an ass if you get turned down, but i do hate it when girls will not even bother to turn you down and simply look away, which yes, does happen. i am sorry, but rudeness begets rudeness; "turn the other cheek" is not my motto. anybody, man or woman, who ignores someone trying to talk to you, is simply a rude ass.[/quote]that's a cultural thing and may be sometimes genuine rudeness, but in most cases it's either a defense mechanism... even a "no" is sometimes signal enough for particularly aggressive guys to press their attack... or just their way of communicating non-interest for whatever reason.
now ask yourself, are you a guy who takes the no for an answer or do you use the opportunity to start your speel of "why nots", "let's just talk" or "can i buy you an ice cream?"... making sure of course to touch her arm while doing so?
i'm not directing this at you particularly, but if some women are annoyed with men and not interested in exchanging even the simplest of conversations i quite frankly understand them, especially if that conversation is to be in a language they may not speak or may not want to speak.
could also be she doesn't want to be seeing speaking to a foreigner, it can be bad for a girl's reputation in certain circles.[quote=stevie69]one last thing. i am sorry, but rudeness begets rudeness; "turn the other cheek" is not my motto. anybody, man or woman, who ignores someone trying to talk to you, is simply a rude ass.
[/quote]by the way, guys who spend their afternoons speaking to every random girl that crosses their path in hopes to have sex with her one or two times before casting her aside are considered pretty rude asses as well. maybe two rude asses do not a happy couple make?
as much as we mongers revel in the glory of our female conquests, many (perhaps even most) people look down upon hobbyists such as ourselves. that is why most of us chose to operate under the radar. doesn't bother me since we get way more pussy than they do, but it still doesn't surprise me when we receive the occasional lukewarm or icy welcome.
[QUOTE=Stevie69]Kiev report
...One of the questions they ask about this time is whether I am staying in a hotel or an apartment. I am not sure why this is one of the first questions, other than because of the difficulties you might have getting a girl past hotel security. But what do they care? The tip for the concierge will come from your pocket, not hers. If anybody can shed any light, please do so.[/QUOTE]
I did not have this exact thing happen to me, but certainly girls took note when I said I was staying in an apartment. (So did business associates, who in many trips still had not clued into this economical way to travel, and were impressed by my savvy - thank you ISG!) I think it is kind of a litmus test - do you know your way around, or are you just a tourist?
Plus some girls view (or used to, a few years ago) hotels with a stigma - hotels are for hookers. Of course, if you are at River Palace or Night Flight, this should not be a problem, because they are hookers. But some "normal" girls may balk at going to a hotel, because they are still pretending that they are just being sociable, not commiting to having sex.