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Uke Boy:
Thanks for your insight/perspective on the $100 standard (I based this on RP/easy access expat options). How do the $50-60 girls compare to RP quality wise? Favorably or even better? I know it is a general question and subjective, but since we invariably have to do some generalizing, what is your opinion?
Chuponalgas:
I would love to get to SA but don't have the time... maybe in the winter (their summer). The quality of pros in SA is fantastic and the $/€ exchange rates to their respective local currencies is equally fantastic. But for now I am stuck with EE.
Uke Boy and several other posters know Ukraine far better than I, but $100 for an overnight, whether in Moscow or Kiev, is still a fantastic price. I personally prefer overnight as I like to celebrate the event and try out many things and obtain video, but often even an overnight really boils down to only 2-3 hours of actual activity... so arranging a $50-60 2-3 hour session is quite sensible.
In any case you'll have a lot of fun and I am looking forward to your after action report.
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The agency Gia asks for $80-$90 for 2-3 hrs,but you can easily negotiate to lower it down to $50-60.What's more,you can persuade the girls to stay for the night for the same charge if she likes you.
It's also quite possible to find pros and semi-pros in River Palace for $50 for 2-3 hrs or even non-pros for free,though it takes some patience and consideration.
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Vegamars,
Just out of curiousity, do you have any particular technique you use in persuading girls to go for free?
And about negotiating a lower price, what works there? Sheer resilience? Or some other factor?
Obviously if she likes you you'll get "benefits"... is there any particular things that works for you to develop thís affection, or is it just standard male-female interaction skills?
In other words, do you scheme or have a battle plan or is it just a matter (as you have often stated before) simply a matter of going with the flow? A technique which I personally endorse as well, but while still maintaining certain strategic elements in my efforts.
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The only tecnique I use with success is to treat any girl as if you know her for a long time and to show that you care for her with some sort of feelings.
It works most of the time and after I meet a pro or semi-pro for first time I can easily manage to see her again and again for free.
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Dr Skank,
How the $40/$50 ladies compare to the RP and higher priced pros such as Gia? Subjective, yes, but the only answer is "no difference," except for price.
I have been fortunate and that all the ladies I have met in the price range have been from 8's to 10's, for looks, services and attitude. I have paid the higher rates for ladies from the online agencies who have interested me but to say they were ultimately worth twice the money would not be the case here.
My occasional pro here is an independent, 27 years old, a "9.6" in looks, with C/D breasts, a hard body, she works out in the gym regularly, and just loves sex in any way and any position. That's $50 for 2 hours so why would I want to overpay? I should also add that I do "tip" her regularly when I do see her, sometimes cash (an extra $20), sometimes flowers if it is near a major holiday such a International Women's Day, or sometimes a nice bottle of wine. Such gestures here are important in maintaining a good relationship and it does not cost all that much more but you get so much more in return.
It will be a very dark day when she leaves the business.
The main thing is that you have to develop a regular relationship. The price goes way down and the variety of services increases as they get comfortable with you, and that includes video. But it is never "free" since for them it is a business.
If you want to sample new ladies each and every time, you will always be paying whatever is the "introductory" rate. If you keep coming back for more, either with the same lady or even with the same agency, discounts always apply if you ask for them, as well as better services.
I must disagree with Vegamars, and that is no surprise.
The last I looked, Gia certainly doesn't charge $80-$90 for 3 hours but $130 for that time. They generally keep to their price lists and there is no way that 2-3 hours for a Gia lady will be $50. If the girl stays for the night for the same price without informing the agency, then she has to be very stupid or naïve. These ladies are pros and they work for an agency that does keep them in line, and the same can be said of any lady with any agency. They also know what pros and semi-pros make and I suspect that agency girls sometimes work River Palace and other clubs on their own so they know what the going prices are.
Just one other thing also needs to be mentioned. I have asked these ladies and agencies here take anywhere from 60% to 75% of the fee, the balance for the lady. I doubt any agency lady or independent here would spend 3 hours or even overnight with anyone for a take home of $20 or less.
I am not sure why you want to spread this kind of nonsense and raise expectations for other forum readers who want to come here, expectations that will never be met.
I would also like to meet with these pros or even semi-pros that you meet who roll over and charge you nothing for having sex with them. Hookers with hearts of gold! I guess the next step is that these pros and semi-pros will pay you to have sex with them!
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I've never had any aim of raising expectations,everything is out of experience and as I've said before,you've gotto find your own unique way for Ukraine cause trying to follow up others in the exact way will never get you anywhere.
As for agencies and independents,you can only lower the prices only if you can negotiate in the right way.
When I said that the girls could be free afterwards,of course I meant that they would be free for sex and that they would expect little presents,going out for dinner,disco,etc for complete GFE.
It's quite possible to create your individuals out of even top agencies.
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FROM MY BASE, IT costs about the same in money and not much difference in time to go to EE or South America. Thanks for all the comments! I try to be charming and many past chicas like me, but we all have our preferences and I personally prefer to meet a new playmate each time. Commenting philosophically, it still seems to me that if a girl could earn the same in two hours as say, two days as a secretary, you would think there would be thousands of them clamoring for a shot! This is generally the case in SA and Thailand, where the price is much more in line with some reasonable multiple of the minimum wage. LOL I remember some of my friends who went to Moscow and Kiev in the 70's who took an extra suitcase full of panty hose and makeup, and could trade a quickie for a bottle of nail polish!!!! But who understands women, anyway????
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Yeah,I heard stories from 50's and 60's that you could do much more with just a chewing gum in Moscow cause you would be like the first man landing on Mars!!
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Uke Boy,
Thanks for the insight. Will use it to my advantage as best I can.
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I will be in Kiev for 7 days from wednesday if I am deemed suitable for a visa. PM me if you are around. This could be a tricky trip for a non-Russian speaker so may have some questions.
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According to lonelyplanet.com the GDP for Brazil is 4060$ and the GDP for Ukraine is 4500$. In the cia factbook (online version) the GDP for Brazil is 7600$ and the GDP for Ukraine is 5300$. Now given that people outside of Kiev earn alot less then the people that live in Kiev, I would say that the average person in kiev earns about 500$ per month and the average wage outside of Kiev is about 200$ per month. In my previous experance that sounds about right. While I have never been to Brazil I can only estamate that the two economies are the about same and so the price of the girls should also be about the same. However I know I can get girls alot cheaper then the 100$ or 50$ in Kiev. I am not sure about what the prices are outside of the capital of Brazil. Sounds like that girl got a bargin. You can get a bargin on rent there, but it takes time and you have to be willing to rent for 6 months or more. The longer you rent, the cheaper the rent becomes.
Having said that I think that the prices of apartments in the center of town are about 350$- 400$ minimum for a one room apartment and as much as you want to spent for something more luxurious. Just do a search for apartments rentals in Kiev and you can see how much you can spend in Kiev.
As for me those prices are really bazzar from what I remember of Kiev. I remember people selling thier 2 room flats for 10 or 15 thousand dollars in the Podol and Perchersk areas. Its like renting an apartmtent in any downtown city in America.
I once heard of an American that sold his Levi's blue jeans on the street for 100$ back in the day. I think my freind told me that it was about 1990. That was when the price of Levi's were about 15 or 20 dollars. He apparently had to go back to where he was staying in his underware and get another pair of pants to wear.
Finnaly, to the gentlelman that wanted to know who told me the American embassator was harrased in Kiev? Well it was the embassy staff when I went there to file a complaint when the cops harassed, me and I was getting tired of it. I think they would be credible source.
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Could anybody tell me where I can find girls other than in River Palace or Bar 111? Does anybody know some websites of recommended agecies?
Please help!
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Member #2001
All these statistics are great but they only tell part of the story. In Ukraine, you have the official economy and then you have the gray market economy. For example, many businesses officially pay their employees on the books 100 or 200 Grivna, $20 or $40, approximately. Why? Because this is the amount the employer then pays very high social security and medical benefits on to the government. The employee then gets a cash salary from the employer of $100, $200, $300 or more, with no further deductions. These monies are never reported to the government and never show up in any statistics. While the government tries to force businesses to use cash registers in order for the tax people to be able to follow a paper trail, many transactions are cash with no register receipt. This also makes statistical information about Ukraine notoriously wrong or just plain "educated guesses."
Also, here in Kiev there has been a real estate boom over the last 2-3 years. Prices have soared. One bedrooms in Pechersk, unrenovated, are now going for $50,000 or more. More importantly, there is no mortgage system here and people are paying these amounts and more with full cash payment! So how does someone who makes 5K per year be able to afford a 50K flat and pay all cash?
If you are here to see what is happening as I am that is one thing. If you are going to use statistics, then they will lie to you each and every time, or at the very least, anyone can use the statistics to make their own case, even if it is directly opposite of yours.
While Ukraine's economy may be one that is statistically that of a third world nation, the people still see themselves as former superpower citizens as well as cultured and sophisticated Europeans, and that includes the working ladies. Now we are looking at how people value themselves.
For all these reasons and more you cannot compare the prices of Brazilian ladies with that of Ukraine.
This place is far, far different from what it was in 1990.
Finally, the most useless place for help or information for any American, in Kiev or any other country of the world, is the embassy. They are, in fact, the least credible of all sources.
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A few interesting remarks:
There's the 5-10% upper top class of Ukraine especially in Kiev,Dniepropetrovsk and Harkov which is surprisingly and unbelievably rich compared to the rich class in Europe.
What's more the real treasure of the country lies abroad,which has flown away to mainly Australia during the last 15 years as it's a country that's even more suitable than Switzerland for regulations of tax exemptions and huge bank accounts.
There's no real good reliable banks in Ukraine at the moment and all the international money transfers are carried out off the record via illegal change offices.
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Hi Guys,
I will be in Lugansk from the 8th for a week. Would like to meet any fellow brother for a drink or two.
VoodoDick