Update needed. What are the current WG prices in the nightclubs for hotties 8+?
[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1268529]How much do you think each of these $300 girls at Rio really cost you? *
Don't forget:
The cost of airline ticket, *
Rent for your apt in Kiev, *
The money you pay for table dances (I assume you want to see their puddy to make sure before you take them home) , *
The money you pay to get in the club and the VIP room, *
The cost of their drinks and cigs when they sit with you to talk to you (I assume you get them at least one drink). I know the other night 3 girls sat with me so I can interview them and I paid 730 grivna that night just for drinks.
I would say each girls cost you at least $430 not $300 since it seems you really don't stay long in Kiev.
Is it really worth all the time you spend flying? *
And to be honest with you I don't think the RIO girls are that hot, it seems when you travel to Kiev you stay for a short time, I know I don't need 3 hours with the girls because I can't see a girl every night and bang her 2 times every night. 2 pops every night if physically too much.
I don't mind coming to Kiev for Rio once every 18 months but 3-4 times every year is just too much, I don't think the Rio girls are hot enough for me to do this.
BTW- has a good time with Bella, nice looking blonde, nice ass, I would rate her 7. 5.
There was another girl, young girl named Katrin, maybe she was new because I hadn't seen her before, spoke English, she was nice and young I would say probably 20.
Overrated Darina and Lera (nice ass) were there too, couldn't get a chance to talk to Katya[/QUOTE]Muddy, I haven't commented on your ratings of some of the girls you rated that I know from Rio, because it is a pointless endeavor, and each guy has a subjective view of this topic. To my mind, girls that you have rated 7 or 7. 5 actually deserve an 8 or 8. 5. But this just illustrates that point that it is subjective. *
A much more useful insight that would help us communicate would be to know what you think of the looks of the Working Girls you have met in places like D'lux or Arena *or Buddha Bar or Shooters who are asking $400 or $500 for an hour or two, and sometimes can be negotiated down to $300/2hours (a $150 / hr net price). These are the girls in the regular clubs who are very beautiful and who think that because they are hot stuff they can demand such high prices. Have you spent some time in the regular nightclubs? Have you seen the WG's on offer in the regular nightclubs and what their beauty level is? How do you feel these top level regular club WG's looks compare with the top girls you have seen at Rio? Similar? Or much better? (within your own personal rating system).
My view of it, after I looked in the regular nightclubs several times, is that the beauty level of the top WG's I have seen in the regular clubs is similar to the beauty level of the top girls at Rio. Therefore, I would rather pay the rates at Rio for that level of beauty, than pay the higher rates asked by the top hotties in the regular nightclubs. *
However, if one believes that the hottest WG's in the regular dance clubs are better looking than the top girls at Rio, then maybe there is an argument to make that it might be worth it to pay higher rates of $150 / hr net rate and higher for them.
But, interestingly, there are some recent claims made on this thread that the $300/3hours (a $100 / hr net price) in effect at Rio, is not the lowest price for very hot nightclub WG's (above level 8) that you can see in advance how they look, and that at the regular nightclubs it is possible to negotiate even lower prices with the WG pros or semi *pros. *Now it puzzles me that in this thread over the last year of posts it has pretty much uniformly been reported that prices like $400 or $500 were being demanded in the regular nightclubs, and that they couldn't be negotiated down to as low as $200/2 hours. But this claim of lower prices for WG's in the regular nightclubs was made recently by Cruiser D, a veteran poster with lots of experience, so it cannot be discounted, without more testing and reporting by ISG'ers who know what they are doing. I hope and wish it is true, and not just his memory of prices from a past era, or prices he personally gets from girls he has known for a long time and are in his dauntingly large contact list built up over the years. We need to be talking about prices other ISG'ers should be capable of achieving and reproducing when they go to the regular nightclubs and try to pick up hot WG's. This area needs more reporting.
So Muddy if you're still in Kiev, hit the regular nightclubs a bit, and see if you have any luck in getting to WG's who look better than the 7. 5's you saw at Rio, and if you were able to get prices for three hours of less than $300, or even to get 2 hours/$200, which would also be better than Rio, please report on it. Or*The Knight, or other senior members, perhaps if you go clubbing you can give a recent update on price conditions for WG's in the regular nightclubs.
LJ
Why travel from NY to Kiev?
[QUOTE=Muddy7; 1268529]How much do you think each of these $300 girls at Rio really cost you? *
Don't forget:
The cost of airline ticket, *
Rent for your apt in Kiev, *
The money you pay for table dances (I assume you want to see their puddy to make sure before you take them home) , *
The money you pay to get in the club and the VIP room, *
The cost of their drinks and cigs when they sit with you to talk to you (I assume you get them at least one drink). I know the other night 3 girls sat with me so I can interview them and I paid 730 grivna that night just for drinks.
I would say each girls cost you at least $430 not $300 since it seems you really don't stay long in Kiev.
Is it really worth all the time you spend flying? *
And to be honest with you I don't think the RIO girls are that hot, it seems when you travel to Kiev you stay for a short time, I know I don't need 3 hours with the girls because I can't see a girl every night and bang her 2 times every night. 2 pops every night if physically too much.
I don't mind coming to Kiev for Rio once every 18 months but 3-4 times every year is just too much, I don't think the Rio girls are hot enough for me to do this.
BTW- has a good time with Bella, nice looking blonde, nice ass, I would rate her 7. 5.
There was another girl, young girl named Katrin, maybe she was new because I hadn't seen her before, spoke English, she was nice and young I would say probably 20.
Overrated Darina and Lera (nice ass) were there too, couldn't get a chance to talk to Katya[/QUOTE]*
Muddy, With respect to your question about how travel costs to Kiev affect the real cost of enjoying Kiev's p4p, and the question of whether it is worth it for me to travel to EE for mongering, the short answer is yes, it is worth it for me to come to Kiev because for the most part I time my visits to Kiev to when I will already be in Europe for other reasons. Then I hop over to Kiev for a few days over a weekend. For this reason travel costs are not generally *a significant factor in my decision to come to Kiev for mongering.
However, since it is relevant to any American monger considering a Kiev trip, I will address the question as if I were incurring the travel costs solely for the p4p. Myopinion still is that it is worthwhile to come to Kiev to monger because there is savings in p4p dollars, despite the travel costs. The caveat is that it is only if one intends to have multiple sex sessions (8 or more hours of p4p) with very beautiful young girls. And although this was the subject of prior posts, I will give you my calculations basis for saying that below so you can see this is correct.
However, The truth is that even if it did cost a little more for p4p by coming to Kiev, it would still be worth it because of the kind of experiences you can get in Kiev, which is a direct result of the kind of girls there are in Kiev. Even the stripper girls from Rio, which one might have expected to be more hard core "user" types like their sister strippers world over, have instead mostly given me beautiful GFE experiences. Maybe it's because many of these girls are being recruited more fresh and new to the world of p4p and still in university, and they haven't become jaded yet. Compared to this, the Russian girls I have met in p4p in NY have tended to be more hard core professionals for whom GFE is a thinly veiled effort. And then what can one say of Kiev's semi pros that abound in the nightclubs and for much cheaper prices on mamba and other websites? Many Ukrainian women love sex and love pleasing a man. You guys who have already experienced Kiev, surely have sensed the difference between Ukrainian girls to what's available back home. I come to Kiev because I Iove it there. The girls are great. *And they look beautiful. What more is to be said? So it's worth a premium for a wild sex weekend in Kiev, for sex on a level of experience not available, or easily available, back home.
But the good news is that it does not cost more for p4p because of travel costs. Even with the travel costs included in the calculations, p4p still costs less when going to Kiev. The numbers speak for themselves.
We are all aware that in Kiev the p4p prices are 600 UAH ($75) to 800 UAH ($100) per hour for the most part on mamba or other websites, and it is the commonly held opinion on this forum that girls above an 8 in beauty are possible to find for those rates. Additionally, the same girl will usually discount the price for a multiple hours session, so it is reasonably available to get a 800 UAH ($100) /hr girl to stay 2 hours for 1200 UAH ($150) , or even for the original $100 requested.
The optimal session length: I happen to prefer sessions of at least 90 minutes to 2 hours in general. It allows sufficient time for long leisurely sessions of kissing, oral sex, both BBBJ as well as DATY, and maybe switching into 69, and then various positions for intercourse, all without any feeling of being time*pressured and also leaving time in the beginning and end for washing up. Even at an FKK, where a half hour session is possible, and some guys jump in and get it all done in 30 minutes, I never go for that, and prefer a longer session with the girl of 60 to 90 minutes usually.
Kiev is a destination particularly well suited for multiple hours sessions because of the fact that more hours are usually possible for little or no increase in cost. *
For example, Even at a high priced venue like Rio, while a standard 3 hour session is $300; nevertheless an all night session of up to 8 hours (depending on how many hours you leave the club before the date end time, usually 5am) , *is $400, a marginal increase of merely $100 in the fee, resulting in a net rate of ($400/8hrs =) $50 / hour. *Similarly, girls from mamba. Ru asking $100 / hr, will often stay 2 hours for little or no increase in fee, and to expect $150 to be adequate for 2 hours is a reasonable assumption in Kiev, reducing the net rate to $75 / hr.
TRAVEL COSTS: I think that for a four night long weekend visit to Kiev from NYC, that between flight costs and accommodations for 4 nights, a reasonable number to use is $1200 for travel costs. (NY to Kiev: Flights are between $600's to $800's depending on season, and luxury apartment accommodations are available in Kiev for between $100-$130 / night, and less fancy for *less.)
So putting all the above together means that*If a guy went to Kiev for a four night weekend and had 4 mamba girls that he managed to find on a beauty level of 8 and above for two hours each night at $150 each night, that would total up as follows: * $1200 (travel costs) plus $600 (p4p costs) *equals a total of $1800/8 hours p4p, or a net rate of $225 / hour.
Any additional 2 hour sessions with beautiful Kiev girls one has in addition to the four sessions on each of the four nights of his stay, would further reduce the net rate paid for p4p. *
For example, let's say our hypothetical monger from NY is frisky during the daytime and adds four 2 hour daytime sessions at the same rate (another $600 in P4p costs) , the total outlay would be $1200 (travel costs) + $1200 (p4p costs) = $2400/16 hrs = $150 / hr net rate for p4p.
Even a guy going to Rio and taking out girls for the $300/3 hTour dates on each night of a four night weekend, and maybe doing a duo date with two girls on one of those nights (5 girls total) would be spending $1200 (travel costs) + $1500 (p4p girl costs) + $400 (Rio club costs 4 nights) = $3100/15 hours p4p = $206 / hr net p4p costs.
So, Muddy, you can see after you crunch the numbers, and include $1200 in travel costs, as well as $100 / night in club expenses, that in a short four day weekend which includes taking out a Rio girl each of the four nights, as well as a duo on one of the nights (15 hours of escort time) , would result in a net rate of only $206 / hr. *
Obviously, to have the same number of hours of sessions in NY, with girls on the same high level of beauty and service, would cost much more.
NY P4P COSTS: What are the costs for p4p in NY for girls on the level of beauty and service *of the Kiev girls we are speaking of. 8's and above, at the current time?
EROS. COM: one of the major internet escort agency advertising websites. If you will look on a website like [url]www.eros.com[/url] In the NY section, you will see that currently, hot looking girls are placing ads for $400 USD (just search "400" and see what comes up. There may be some ads for $350 but any lower prices than 400 usually brings up ads for transsexuals ("TS") mostly). *With $400 girls, Two hours would be $800, but from experience, often *they can be negotiated to agree to $700/2hours. For 3 hours, the fee would likely be between $900 to $1000. Of course there are many hot girl ads for hourly rates higher than 400, but 400 seems to be the base rate for a hot girl on Eros. Com.
Another advertisement source would be backpage. Com where many independents advertise. In the NY section you will see ads for $200 or $250 or $300. These are fake picture ads and you never know what will be waiting for you in terms of looks or service. It's a trial and error process. There are also asian massage spas where happy ending is possible, as well as full service Korean spas where the price is $200 / hr, but you have to like the petite Korean girls. *There are also Russian Massage parlors advertising on backpage, but it is bodywork and happy ending, in apartments, but some FS may be available. I've just begun investigating the potential of these venues, but very doubtful anything on a beauty level of the girls in Kiev of 8's and above is available in such apartments.
There are a few other legitimate "true picture" agencies that have ads for girls in the $350 to $400 to $500 range. *
There are also high end agencies that have starting prices at $600 / hr going up to $1200 / hr. Or higher. They have the websites with pics of girls on a high EE level of what we might see in Kiev, but the pics are likely fake also. *
That's more or less the NY internet based market. A newbie coming to NY would probably find the agencies and types of websites I referred to above.
Streetwalkers near the major midtown hotels or in certain bars still operate, but I'm not into that scene.
So it's fair to say that, avoiding the high end agencies whose prices are really high, the best price one could get for girls on a high beauty level of 8+ looking like the girls in Kiev would be the Russian girls advertising on The internet for $400 / hr on Eros. Com. That would be $800/2hours, which can usually be negotiated to $700/2hours, and a 3hour date (like with girls from Rio in Kiev) would be $1000, a net hourly rate of $333 / hr, which is much higher than Kiev rates.
[For guys originating in London, [url]www.londonescortguide.com[/url] Is indicative of the prices for hot EE girls in London, which is in the 150 GBP ($237 USD) to 180 GBP ($285 USD) range. (On the adultwork website cheaper prices of 100 GBP ($158 USD) are possible for decent looking girl with much effort and investigation, but unlikely with girls on a beauty level equivalent to the girls in Kiev.) Three hours at London p4p rates, are also more costly than the net hourly rate one *would pay in Kiev, especially for mamba girls, even including travel costs, for a similar number of hours. The British mongers have it even better because of much lower travel costs to Kiev. ]
Kiev remains a very viable mongering destination for cheaper p4p than can be had at home in NY for girls on a similar very high level of beauty and service.
The real question is whether the NY'er should head to the Frankfurt FKK's or to Kiev for the "best" experience? I have gone back and forth on this question and have posted my thoughts and observations. I cannot decide it. They are each good for different things. So I continue to go to both.
Happy Mongering.
LJ
Negotiate at night, Monger next day
[QUOTE=Liljoey;1269719]I'm very interested in the possibilities in the nightclubs for prices lower than Rio, as used to be possible with negotiation at RP with very hot girls. Therefore, a $200 outlay for 2 hours would be a significant improvement to the Rio rates, and recommend those nightclubs as the venue of choice. Then the question becomes what is the likelihood of getting a hot girl at a $200/2hours rate, I. E. The efficiency factor.[/QUOTE].
I always chatted with girls at RP, when I made it very obvious to them that I wasn't interested in a take out on that night.
Got their numbers, and told them I like to see them next day, late afternoon, or early evening.
Price US$100 / an hour. Max.
In fact a lot of girls told me that they prefer it this way. So do I.
Try it in other clubs, it will work.
Happy Hour Prices.
I apply the same principle when going shopping for Food in supermarkets. I never shop there, when feeling Hungry.
After all Sex is Food.