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[QUOTE=Chocha Monger;1163416]Only a complete moron would believe getting fleeced and paying extra for the privilege actually leads to better service. Filipinos are known for taking as much advantage as you let them. Once you are identified as being a fool with your money the word will get around and soon everyone in town will be lined up to take a crack at your asshole.[/QUOTE]To right I thing australians grew up knowing how asia works we live next door to them, I often see other men who get a pina only to see that they gave away everything because they did not say no, they did not get ripped off they gave it away, not all girls are like that but the ones that are are looking for their next john.
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[QUOTE=FurryFriend; Many girls and bars now cater to Koreans because they tip big. So the corolation between spending and service is direct and emphatic. Australians are known not to tip. Last time I checked, there are no bars or girls catering to the Aussies.[/QUOTE]Think a little longer about why the Koreans tip. Is is out of pleasure or born out of necessity. As we all know, Koreans are known to be voilent with their babes, to be impolite and to generaly behave in an unpleasant manner with their girls. Ask a bar girl what her preference for nationality is and it sure as heck isn't Korean.
So the Koreans know to get what they want, they need to tip. Other nationalites who lack the voilent streak have less need to tip.
Having been on this board for past several years, this subject comes up once a quarter. Expect a repeat of it in Autumn.
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[QUOTE=FreebieFan;1163464]Think a little longer about why the Koreans tip. Is is out of pleasure or born out of necessity. As we all know, Koreans are known to be voilent with their babes, to be impolite and to generaly behave in an unpleasant manner with their girls. Ask a bar girl what her preference for nationality is and it sure as heck isn't Korean.[/QUOTE]First of all, what bargirls say about Koreans need to be taken with a grain of salt. When they're around Koreans, they're probably telling them how much they hate cheap-o, ugly old fat white guys. Rule #1 on Fields. Do not trust what bargirls say, especially when they're selling themselves to you.
By the way, the Japanese tip heavily too. And most people on Fields (bar girls, waitress, other patrons, etc) will tell you that the Japanese are the politest. So your argument about how rude people need to tip more flies right out the window.
There is zilch corollation between rudeness and tipping. However, there is a direct corollation between tipping and personal wealth. South Korea is a wealthy country, its currency isn't a piece of shit, and Koreans pay far less than white tourists to fly direct from Seoul. All these factors allow them to spend more.
Funny how many people think Koreans are violent and impolite, but never experienced it for himself. On Fields, I've never seen Korean guys confront other people and being a menace.
I think I have a special insight on Koreans being Asian and growing up in Los Angeles. Yes, Koreans are a bit abrupt. But "violent"? Give me a break. If they're so violent, they'd be frequently arrested. I bet white guys get arrested in Angeles City for unruly behavior far more often than Koreans.
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[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1163384]Maybe they're not overpaying. Maybe you're underpaying.
So if you're complaining, that means you're being driven from the marketplace because you cannot compete with other patrons. In a way, that means you're the one who's "weak". [/QUOTE]I'm not complaining nor am I driven out from the market place. I'm simply pointing out a truism. Men who hand over their power to women, especially asian women, are WEAK. I'll say it again, if you readily overpay and hand out generous tips then you are a weak monger. AC is full of weak mongers these days. A pathetic bunch really!
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[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1163378]
[QUOTE=Sharka;1162933]I've had runners and let me tell you flat out. They simply don't care if you are a tipper of not. She already made up her mind to "run" as soon as you BF her.[/QUOTE]There's no way you can possibly know that. If you want to be honest, you'd admit you pulled that insight from thin air to discourage tipping.[/QUOTE]Going to have to agree with Shark on that. The girl is unaware until she departs in the morning (be it 6am or 9am or whenever) whether or not she's going to get a tip (nobody's dumb enough to tell the girl, before departing the bar, she's getting a tip the next day). If she runs at say. 4am, while the customer is asleep, she's simply ignoring a possible tip. Therefore, she knew before you dozed off that she was going to run.
BTW, some girls do run back to the bar, some run home (the bar is closed when the girl sneaks out, and some bars don't condone running). For those that don't return to the bar (whatever reason) , she is ignoring a possible tip in the morning for. . . Nothing.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163378]Bottom line is, money is what drives Fields. The girls aren't here to meet nice guys. They can do that in church. No girl chooses to give blowjob for money unless she has few options. So to say "money and tipping doesn't matter" is ludicrous and flies in the face of logic.[/QUOTE]In your mind. Sometimes money DOESN'T matter (usually it does). When a dancer gets no barfine, then txts and comes to my room at 1:15am after her shift, for a night (and morning) of whoopie, for no money, then repeats a few nights later, what's the catch there? No money changed hands. Well, she got breakfast.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163378]If a girl thinks she can earn more spending the night with you than returning to the bar, that's what she'll do. If you're a savvy consumer, you'll incentivize her to perform.[/QUOTE]Not necessarily. Returning to the bar may not make her more money (she might not get a barfine, or LD, and worse she has to dance for several hours and go home to no aircon). On the other hand, staying with the customer gets her aircon and a possible tip. I can't make this case for sure, and Furry can't make the opposite case for sure. Two psychologies. True, Furry could make the case that if she knew there was no tip in the morning (ala me) , she would have more incentive to run back to the bar for another possible barfine. On the other hand, I would make the case that if she knew I would post her picture online for doing that, then she might be more likely to stay put and be happy with her share of the barfine in the morning.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1163378]
[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1163026]I think I mentioned it here once. We should post pics of runners or starfish from the AC bars.[/QUOTE]This is a really embarassing post, man.[/QUOTE]Based on the responses, there are two varied opinions, yes? Yours, and mine. I'm not sure one is more embarrassing than the other.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163378]Are you really going to such extremes, possibly violating Philippine privacy laws, because a prostitute spited you? What would you do if bars started to post photos of Cheap Charlies?[/QUOTE]I didn't agree to having my picture taken in a bar. The girls on the other hand, did agree to have their pics taken, and they agree in advance to let me do anything I want with the pics.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163378]By the way, do you really want to increase the likelihood someone will seriously kick your ass, whether it's the girl's boyfriend or the bar's bodyguards. I think you're overestimating the civility of Filipinos who work in this rough business.[/QUOTE]Yawn.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163378]Your post is exactly the reason why Angeles City MUST have a stronger tipping culture. Whenever a guy pays first, he surrenders a lot of his ability to encourage service. This is especially true in today's Angeles City where more guys from Asia are throwing cash around like Monopoly money. The girls will only develop a stronger tipping mindset in the years to come.[/QUOTE]I'll stand by my record. 4 runners in almost adecade (3 in AC, two of which the bar returned; one in cebu). Somethings keeping them there in the hotel. And I don't tip (well, p50 for taxi). Are you compensating for something (or lack thereof) with cash?
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163378]Many girls and bars now cater to Koreans because they tip big. So the corolation between spending and service is direct and emphatic. Australians are known not to tip. Last time I checked, there are no bars or girls catering to the Aussies.[/QUOTE]Try the converse logic: if we all stopped tipping, we wouldn't have this discussion. Hey you aussies don't tip? Cheap bastards, neither do I!
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[QUOTE=Westcoast1;1163499]I'll stand by my record. 4 runners in almost adecade (3 in AC, two of which the bar returned; one in cebu). Somethings keeping them there in the hotel. And I don't tip (well, p50 for taxi). Are you compensating for something (or lack thereof) with cash?[/QUOTE]If running isn't a problem, why go to the extremes of posting photos? Thankfully, most people know your idea is preposterous. I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for others to heed your call.
The truth is, running is still fairly rare. Your record is hardly impressive. The real issue is performance.
Tipping is not compensation for something lacking. It's a cultural practice. Most Americans tip a hairdresser, waitress or bellboy. By your weak logic, does this mean they are compensating for something at a salon, restaurant or hotel?
Look...nobody knows what goes on when Korean patrons take a girl out of a bar. Anything we say is pure speculation. Here is NOT speculation. More and more bars and girls are catering to Korean patrons. Either the girls have suddenly acquired Korean-fever...or Korean spending habits really does make a difference.
Bottom line is, people are going to spend whatever they want to spend. Big deal. It's a sad state of affairs when one group obsesses over the financial activities of another. Koreans don't sit around posting messages about you being a pathetic cheapo in Angeles City. So why worry about what they do? I already know the answer. And let's be really honest here. Most hatred is really just jealousy in disguise. If you and a Korean guy enters Dollhouse at the same time, I have zero doubt who will get seated first.
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Lots of Koreans also happen to work in Clark. Lots of Koreans live in Clark. Why wouldn't they have bars catered to them? Just like there are foreign bars in China where the majority of the people speak english. Alas, thats neither here nor there. Now if you could show me that the korean bars have prettier girls have higher barfines and higher expected tips and all this other stuff you associate with the nationality of someone, I would be very interested to see these things.
Correlation does not prove causality.
As for the prisoners dilemma, you are basing this off the assumption that our fates are tied together and that you and I are p (l) aying for the same girl. You are also assuming that tipping habits will drive market prices upwards.
Does what I tip make the bar fine go up? Until you can show me that tipping makes the bar fine go up. I really won't have much more to say about market economics.
I enjoyed walking into one of the megabars and having my favorite girl leave the guy who currently bought her a ladydrink to come over and say Hi to me. Thats why I tip. My friend enjoyed having one of the bell boys from the hotel find him chewing tobacco buying it for him and bringing it back to the hotel all while my friend was sitting at the pool. The bellboy was astonished for the 500p tip. My friend was astonished the bellboy actually did all this without the mention of tip. (though he may have shilled the price a bit just to make sure he got something out of it, who knows, who cares.)
I live in a culture where you do not tip. When I cut my KTV girls loose, they don't ask for tip. I give them 20RMB for taxi. If they are from the hotel, they do not get a tip. If I build a relationship and the girl goes above and beyond the expected level of service, I may invite her out for food or buying some clothes that I enjoy to see her in. Flat money? No thanks.
In the PI, they ask for a tip. Why do they ask for a tip? Who knows, that damage is already done. Do local guys tip? No. Do local guys pay to fuck? No. Do BFBF (big fat balding foreigners) pay to fuck? Yes. Do those some BFBFs tip? Some of them do.
If you think tipping someone for service above and beyond is a sign of weakness or giving up power. You my friend (I guess I should use that term very loosely) need to get your head checked. I will agree with you that tipping for BAD service is one of the worst things you can do (even then, Japanese culture believes that you tip someone if the service is poor as a sign of disrespect)
At the end of the day, it doesn't affect me. If I see some guy splashing cash and having a good time, I will probably go over and join him. Just because you choose not to because you are the last bastion of economics holding back the tide of girls turning down barfines because they don't think you are a big tipper. Thats fine. You hold up the dyke while I take out my young spinner.
As another aside, another ISGer from the China threads had almost every girl turn him down for a barfine. So many girls were on the mens you woulda thought a new ocean of blood formed outside the ABC hotel! Build rapport, remember these are real people not pieces of meat at an auction house. Sure you want to make sure they will do what you need to get done. But apart from: whats your name, are you a cherry girl, are you available to go out, are you ok with staying until 10am, buy the girl a drink and get into your nastier desires of eating whipped cream and tunafish out of her chocolate starfish while she gives you a rusty trombone in your clown costume until after she is sitting with you and having a good time.
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[QUOTE=Amjeck;1163497]I'm not complaining nor am I driven out from the market place. I'm simply pointing out a truism. Men who hand over their power to women, especially asian women, are WEAK. I'll say it again, if you readily overpay and hand out generous tips then you are a weak monger. AC is full of weak mongers these days. A pathetic bunch really![/QUOTE]Some of us work stateside and have only a precious few weeks of vacation (of which, I assure you, cannot all be used for this endeavor). I have no problem with "overpaying" (but I will not go over the top and look like an idiot with more money than sense) if it means I can get higher quality service and / or person. It is pointless for folks in my position to cut corners because we already pay a fixed amount for airfare and a decent hotel (3*+) for 2 weeks.
Unless you want to arrange my itinerary while I'm in the PI and provide (what I deem are) 8/9's, I will gladly pay you for the effort so you can take advantage of my overpaying.
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[QUOTE=FurryFriend; 1163384]. . . . . . <SNIP
By the way, how come its OK for you to want lower prices but it's not OK for the girls to want higher prices? Are you the only one allowed to act in self-interest? [/QUOTE]I think this quotation lifted from Furry's post strikes a chord with me.
In my status as a supporter of a free market in a free world I think he asks a valid question. The term "want" is significant; what we "want" and what we "get" is sometimes (often?) different.
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[QUOTE=Amjeck;1163208]From what venues? Are you seasoned or a newbie? Do you speak Thai?[/QUOTE]The first venue that comes to mind is a soapy but I don't believe it's limited to that. I thought the topic was Thailand vs Phils not venues. Not that who I am has anything to do with it but I've lived in Thailand for 5 years and I speak enough Thai to get by. I simply said I had a different experience than you. Thai girls asking for tips. It doesn't make you wrong does it?
The way I see it providers are providers. Pick a topic and some will and some won't no matter what country.
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[QUOTE=Just Seven;1163257]If you can't compete, its not a prisoners dilemma, my spending habits won't affect you, they will just get me the girl I want with the attitude I want with the reaction I want. If you are worried about prices going up, get another job. Or monger less. You can always make more money, you can't get yesterday back.[/QUOTE]Fully supported. Me in Makati today, AC on Thursday!
Cheers!
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[QUOTE=Just Seven; 1163515]Lots of Koreans also happen to work in Clark. Lots of Koreans live in Clark. Why wouldn't they have bars catered to them?
As for the prisoners dilemma, you are basing this off the assumption that our fates are tied together and that you and I are p (l) aying for the same girl. You are also assuming that tipping habits will drive market prices upwards.
Does what I tip make the bar fine go up? Until you can show me that tipping makes the bar fine go up. I really won't have much more to say about market economics.
I enjoyed walking into one of the megabars and having my favorite girl leave the guy who currently bought her a ladydrink to come over and say Hi to me. Thats why I tip. My friend enjoyed having one of the bell boys from the hotel find him chewing tobacco buying it for him and bringing it back to the hotel all while my friend was sitting at the pool. The bellboy was astonished for the 500p tip. My friend was astonished the bellboy actually did all this without the mention of tip. (though he may have shilled the price a bit just to make sure he got something out of it, who knows, who cares.)
I live in a culture where you do not tip. When I cut my KTV girls loose, they don't ask for tip. I give them 20RMB for taxi. If they are from the hotel, they do not get a tip. If I build a relationship and the girl goes above and beyond the expected level of service, I may invite her out for food or buying some clothes that I enjoy to see her in. Flat money? No thanks.
In the PI, they ask for a tip. Why do they ask for a tip? Who knows, that damage is already done. Do local guys tip? No. Do local guys pay to fuck? No. Do BFBF (big fat balding foreigners) pay to fuck? Yes. Do those some BFBFs tip? Some of them do.
If you think tipping someone for service above and beyond is a sign of weakness or giving up power. You my friend (I guess I should use that term very loosely) need to get your head checked. I will agree with you that tipping for BAD service is one of the worst things you can do (even then, Japanese culture believes that you tip someone if the service is poor as a sign of disrespect)
As another aside, another ISGer from the China threads had almost every girl turn him down for a barfine. So many girls were on the mens you woulda thought a new ocean of blood formed outside the ABC hotel! Build rapport, remember these are real people not pieces of meat at an auction house. Sure you want to make sure they will do what you need to get done. But apart from: whats your name, are you a cherry girl, are you available to go out, are you ok with staying until 10am, buy the girl a drink and get into your nastier desires of eating whipped cream and tunafish out of her chocolate starfish while she gives you a rusty trombone in your clown costume until after she is sitting with you and having a good time. [/QUOTE]In Fact when I lived in China few years ago there was no expectation of tip and none gave. Even after dinner my girl would collect the changes after the bill was paid. Whenever I went for massages nobody gave me a tip reciept to fill out and sign.
Unfortunately things have changed. Now every girl massaged me expects a tip. Fortunately in Restaurents no tip was expected.
Philippines follow American culture. Tipping is expected but not demanded. Even the girls who went with me to dinner will tell me how much to leave as tip.
In AC there were some newbies who never asked for a tip. They were quite happy to be fed breakfast or brunch.
I think tipping to get attention from the girls is silly. If your ego in a bar goes up because of the attention you get as a big tipper it is simply a illusion. These girls have seen and regularly see many guys day in and day out. For them it is just a game.
Just to illustrate the point I barfined a cute girl from Las vegas and kept her for a few days. One day she had a toothache and I spent 1000 pesos for her to get dental treatment. She told this to everybody at the bar and all the ladies would talk to me and thanked me for doing a nice thing for her.
On my next trip in about 6 months I went looking for her. The mamasan told me she is with her regular (whatever it means ). The girl in spite of seeing me did not come to say Hi to me. So I barfined another cute girl with the help of the mamasan. I kept this new girl for few days. However the old girl it seems was telling this girl not to stay with me. Maybe she was hoping I will ask her since her regular BF was gone.
This clearly shows do not do anything out of the ordinary to impress or help. Just get your rocks off and leave.
It is very rare in AC when none of the thousands of girls do not want to be barfined by anybody. Ofcourse if you get your standards high it maybe a problem. Just like anything else cute, young girls can easily have their picks with who to go and who not to go with.
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Its not just tipping, but spending in general.
Do I ring the bell? No. Do I give my girl of choice a bunch of 20's to make it rain on her friends? Sure. Do I buy drinks for the mommies and waitresses I like? You betcha. Do I give the bellboy who went out to find something for me a little something for his trouble. Certainly. Do I tip the girl telling me she has stomache pains and has to leave early? Never.
Do the girls and mommies remember me? Whenever I come back I get the reaction I want. It has nothing to do with my ego. Seeing people happy makes me happy. Just like when I lived in the states when I came home and my dog was happy to see me, that made me happy. Is that an ego thing? You tell me.
Obviously we have different experiences and I am not saying what you are doing is wrong. I am not saying tip these girls. I am not saying don't tip these girls. I am saying do what makes you happy. Others seem to be getting mighty pissed off that I am doing what makes me happy because apparently I am pissing in their sandbox.
Its funny that tipping comes up all the fucking time in the PI thread but I have never seen it over in the China sections. On another monger site I see people ask about how much to tip the locker room boys in the sauna. I guess if your girl is taking 15k RMB from you for an overnight, she isn't going to ask you for a tip haha!
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All opinions welcome
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163505]If running isn't a problem, why go to the extremes of posting photos? Thankfully, most people know your idea is preposterous. I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for others to heed your call.[/QUOTE]I'm not waiting for others to heed the call. I mentioned it as a possibility to reduce runners. Several have heeded it and said so here, in the last 24 hours (+PM's). Hence, the idea isn't any more preposterous than your idea of creating a 'tipping culture'. Each is entitled to his opinion.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163505]The truth is, running is still fairly rare. Your record is hardly impressive. The real issue is performance.[/QUOTE]Beg to differ. There are more complaints on this board in the last year of running. Also on my last trip I chatted with multiple gents in the bars or Kokomos who complained that no woman had stayed past sunup on their current trip (for one gent, that was 16 girls). Running is not a problem?
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163505]Tipping is not compensation for something lacking. It's a cultural practice. Most Americans tip a hairdresser, waitress or bellboy. By your weak logic, does this mean they are compensating for something at a salon, restaurant or hotel?[/QUOTE]Tipping is not cultural in Philippines. Maybe where you (and I) are from it is.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163505]Bottom line is, people are going to spend whatever they want to spend.[/QUOTE]Something we agree upon.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163505]Koreans don't sit around posting messages about you being a pathetic cheapo in Angeles City. So why worry about what they do?[/QUOTE]If its in their blood, they going to do it. In your mind, cheap = pathetic? Listen, I can afford to give the girls several times the barfine price. I simply choose not to do that. Being a millionaire doesn't mean you need to be showering cash (just the opposite). If I was a carpenter, I'd pay the barfine+p50. If I was a movie star, I'd pay the barfine+p50.
[QUOTE=FurryFriend;1163505]Most hatred is really just jealousy in disguise. If you and a Korean guy enters Dollhouse at the same time, I have zero doubt who will get seated first.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure where you came up with hatred / jealousy. Mostly its a complaint. BTW, that would bother someone? Not getting seated first, being beaten out by a whale? I could care less. Whales in Vegas get the big-table seat before me also, but I'm not concerned with that. I'm more concerned with the idea of tipping in general. If FF is paying p1500+1000tip, and I'm paying p1500+50tip, one of us is creating spoilage. This drives up prices and expectations. Simple market concept.
FF, apology. I was sarcastic before. In tipping, just we're going to disagree. Regarding posting the runners, I find this argument interesting from a different standpoint. There are guys here who post full facial shots of the girls. Usually I hide the girls face. Why would my posting a full-facial of a runner be so bad? All opinions welcome.
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WC: as for posting pictures of runners.
If you have permission for them to take the picture, I would have no qualms about it. They agree to it. I am sure many many girls know about ISG and the internet. I have even seen some mongers with ISG up at Kokomos on their laptops with girls over their shoulder.
There is no real recourse for a runner. You can go back to the bar if its still open. You can post her picture for all to see on the outside of her bar as a warning. You can talk to the manager. All of which just wastes your time.
I have been thinking alot about what people want from their girls when they barfine them. Some just want to fuck as much as possible, others want a girlfriend, others want who knows what.
I do look towards the more experienced guys on a more personal matter. I have never gotten jealous of a girlfriend before. On my latest PI trip, I actually got jealous of one of my preferred girls getting barfined by another guy. (I had no intention of barfining her again that night, but I still didn't like someone else barfining her.)
How do I train myself to have that feeling go away? Along with that, as previously stated, when I see something I want, I work stubbornly till I get it. How do I train to either make myself want other things or to let stuff like that go?
My older friends said my mentality will change when I get married and have kids. Well I am here now, how do I get the next mentality without the kids and the wife?