Stupid Shit in Kyiv

[QUOTE=Socker;2726843]
Now, 50 years later we have Ukraine vs Russia and once again the west is trying to stop Russia (still communist to some) from taking over vast territories. We're trying to stop communism all over again but this time is different because everyone has nukes. Nuclear war has never been closer to destroying humanity than it is today. Propaganda was expertly used in the Vietnam era and it's being used now. This conflict would be over now had we stayed out of it and Ukraine would be more intact w less dead Ukrainians.[/QUOTE]Ukraine doesn't want to bend over and grab their ankles and give away their land and identity. They certainly don't want you, Elvis, Pedro, Drama Queen, or Tucker deciding what is best for them. So myself, the vast majority of Americans, and even the vast majority of Republican politicians want to send them weapons, and that's what we are going to continue to do.

We did stop the USSR, who had nukes from the 50's onwards. You can bet your life that South Korea is glad we opposed them. Don't forget that detail! Now the enemy is authoritarianism which is an ideology that spreads well beyond the now defunct USSR, is found in a substantial minority in Western Europe, and is well represented in the US with Carlson, the Trump cult, "Stop the Steal," and the efforts to overturn a democratic election and all varieties of looney conspiracy theories. Your analogy doesn't work. Russia today has an economy about the size of Mexico. They aren't entitled to any "sphere of influence" as no one wants anything to do with them but Iran. Unlike the former USSR they are engaging in nuclear saber rattling, which is an act of desperation. We the US and NATO don't back down from such from tyrants or anyone else, and for obvious reasons, primarily because it shows weakness and sends the wrong message. Ukraine gets weapons. If Vlad touches NATO it's on as it should be.

[QUOTE=Socker;2726843]I'm always searching for the least biased news. Maybe you can point me towards a more fair and honest news source. Thanks.[/QUOTE]About anything but Carlson would be a big step up. LOL he is conspiracy theory peddler, white grievance inciter that laughs at people who take him seriously while laughing all the way to the bank. That was his defense in a liable suit, and it worked, the judge finding it hard to believe that there's anyone out there dumb enough to believe him. He's not "news. " So with that in mind, take a look around. Google is your friend. The big three, Wall Street Journal, New York Post, London Times, the last three from a right-center angle are a big step up from Fox which for the most part isn't news. That especially applies to the evening hours. It all birthed from the "entertainer" Rush Limbaugh who never had the balls to take the debate stage in a neutral environment where his claims could be examined.

[URL]https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/greedy-associates/tucker-carlson-successfully-argues-nobody-really-believes-tucker-carlson-is-reporting-facts/[/URL]

P.S. All of these points have been made innumerable times on this thread by myself and have only been ignored while the same pro-Russia, isolationist talking points have been repeated ad nauseam. Our side though has gotten tired of going in circles so have moved on to more important matters, like working and earning money for vacations. And here's something else to put in your pocket, as you seem at least somewhat sincere, calling something a "fact" or "the truth" never makes it a fact or the truth. Or in other words, asserting something as true never makes it true. These are the two fallacies in play:

[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-by-Repetition[/URL]

[URL]https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_by_assertion[/URL]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2726865]These fellas are unbelievable. They are dying to get on their four, spread the cheeks and let world dictatorships like Russia and China have their way with them.[/QUOTE]Easily the most nauseating aspect is when the Drama Queens and Elvis' try and portray themselves as humanitarians, that submitting to Russia is in the best interest of Ukrainians, this with full knowledge of the summary executions, widespread violence against women, tortures of prisoners of war, deportation "re-education" camps, etc. When in reality they just want cheaper gas prices for their old pickup trucks and mobile homes. A very miserable and bloody time would follow any surrender to Russia. But you could have easily told the colonists the same thing, that bending over for the British would save lives but they had greater aspirations, something called freedom. Ukraine is fighting for that and their existence, language, culture, national identity, etc. The price to pay for that is their business, and I'm glad that the overwhelming majority of our elected officials including Republicans stand with them.

What is it any good for? More fucking and less fighting please!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZiNk[/URL]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2729078]Easily the most nauseating aspect is when the Drama Queens and Elvis' try and portray themselves as humanitarians, that submitting to Russia is in the best interest of Ukrainians, this with full knowledge of the summary executions, widespread violence against women, tortures of prisoners of war, deportation "re-education" camps, etc. When in reality they just want cheaper gas prices for their old pickup trucks and mobile homes. A very miserable and bloody time would follow any surrender to Russia. But you could have easily told the colonists the same thing, that bending over for the British would save lives but they had greater aspirations, something called freedom. Ukraine is fighting for that and their existence, language, culture, national identity, etc. The price to pay for that is their business, and I'm glad that the overwhelming majority of our elected officials including Republicans stand with them.[/QUOTE]You truly delusional. Yes, I do want cheaper gas and peace would be even better. There is no way Ukraine wins, only in your Video Game and your Fantasy world. Unfortunately Pres. Z. is playing the same game you are playing, he is getting many incident people killed in the process and his country is being destroyed. This is not winning.

[QUOTE=TheCane;2729194]What is it any good for? More fucking and less fighting please!

[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-2pNCZiNk[/URL][/QUOTE]As has been said so many times on this thread, that's all up to Putin who chose that path.

More support for your statement below from Gonzalo Lira:

"For those new to this blog and unfamiliar with TTG, TTG is a retired US Army Special Forces officer of Lithuanian heritage. He no longer thinks rationally about war. His hatred of all things Russian cloud his judgment. He asserts that I am drinking Moscow's kool-aid because I point out the obvious–Russia is winning and will defeat Ukraine completely and decisively. TTG insists that the arrival of HIMARS and M777's are game changers and, wait for it, the Ukrainians will mount the ultimate offensive and push the Russians back to Moscow. Normally, I would not want to waste time to engage such nonsense but in this case I think it is warranted.

. . The fact that Ukraine had a three to one advantage and were embedded in defensive positions should have led to the defeat of the Russians. One of the traditional military doctrines is that an army fighting a foe who is on the defense must have at least a three to one advantage if they have any hope of prevailing in the fight. Well guess what–Russia has turned that doctrine on its head. We now have a case study (on-going) of the first time that an inferior force (in terms of numbers) is steadily defeating an entrenched, fortified enemy with three times the numbers. There is not one area in Ukraine where the Ukraine army has pushed the Russians out of territory they have occupied and held it against Russian counter attacks. Not one. The Russian feint towards Kiev in early March does not count. Western propaganda insists this was a tremendous Ukrainian victory. But Russia used that operation to fix Ukrainian forces around Kiev so that the Russian, Donetsk and Luhansk forces could mass for the offensive to retake the Donbas. And that is exactly what the Special Military Operation has been doing over the last five months.

The only "offense" we are seeing from Ukraine is the shelling of civilians in the Donbas. This does highlight one shortcoming of the Russian SMO–the lack of effective, comprehensive counter battery fire. It is worth noting that the areas being targeted by Ukraine are in the Western part of the Donbas occupied by Russia and its allied Republics (I. E. , Donetsk and Luhansk). Killing a few civilians in cities in the Donbas with indiscriminate shelling–while horrific for the families who loose loved ones–does not win the war for Ukraine. In fact, it reinforces its image as a lawless violator of human rights. Still, it is up to Russia to put in place the necessary intelligence platforms required to quickly identify the source of the fires and destroy them. Ukrainian artillery and HIMMARS will not stop Russia's allied offensive and force a retreat. Neither will it force a stalemate. Russia has defacto air supremacy and has intact tank battalions and a plethora of artillery and missiles that it continues to rain down on Ukrainian forces. . . ".

Full article: [URL]http://www.stationgossip.com/2022/08/russia-is-slowly-and-methodically.html[/URL].

Photo: US Troops Enter Ukraine! LOL.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2729238]You truly delusional. Yes, I do want cheaper gas and peace would be even better. There is no way Ukraine wins, only in your Video Game and your Fantasy world. Unfortunately Pres. Z. is playing the same game you are playing, he is getting many incident people killed in the process and his country is being destroyed. This is not winning.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2729078]Easily the most nauseating aspect is when the Drama Queens and Elvis' try and portray themselves as humanitarians, that submitting to Russia is in the best interest of Ukrainians, this with full knowledge of the summary executions, widespread violence against women, tortures of prisoners of war, deportation "re-education" camps, etc. When in reality they just want cheaper gas prices for their old pickup trucks and mobile homes. A very miserable and bloody time would follow any surrender to Russia. But you could have easily told the colonists the same thing, that bending over for the British would save lives but they had greater aspirations, something called freedom. Ukraine is fighting for that and their existence, language, culture, national identity, etc. The price to pay for that is their business, and I'm glad that the overwhelming majority of our elected officials including Republicans stand with them.[/QUOTE]Pauline, you and XMan do have a few things in common with Pres. Z. You are delusional, living in a fantasy world and no desire to negotiate. Unfortunately, many will die from this ridiculous war. Russia will get the ports and Ukraine will end up with almost nothing, but in your world that is a win.

You do not have one thing in common with Pres. Z. , you are not as corrupt as he is. The truth will come out some day.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2729238]You truly delusional. Yes, I do want cheaper gas and peace would be even better. There is no way Ukraine wins, only in your Video Game and your Fantasy world. Unfortunately Pres. Z. is playing the same game you are playing, he is getting many incident people killed in the process and his country is being destroyed. This is not winning.[/QUOTE]That's what I call service. My post wasn't up 30 minutes and you've already posted a reply. Stupid Shit in Kyiv is no doubt a great place to build your life around. Wink.

You whine with the same mantra over and over daily for months but your only alternative is for Ukraine to surrender their country, their culture and identity, toss their women to the wolves, accept tortures and executions, and submit their children to deportations and "re-education. " That isn't an option for them nor do they want it, irrespective of Zelensky. It's also not an option for the West to look the other way at this aggression against a democratic partner.

You are delusional in that your analysis is way overly simplistic with use of the black and white thinking fallacy. There are other possible outcomes besides a complete Russian defeat and surrender or else Ukraine should bend over and grab their ankles.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white[/URL]

There's unlikely to be any clear cut winner and loser as in one side unconditionally surrenders. Even if Russia managed to occupy Ukraine there would still be armed resistance. Occupying territory is one thing. Holding it is another. Russia isn't going to use nukes as that's suicide. Even if only tactical nukes they'd lose the few friends they have left in the world. So with that hardly at risk and NATO weapons and greater motivation among the Ukrainians in play, it's a pretty fair fight. Russian casualties and humiliation have been high, and it would be much worse if our weapons support wasn't restrained and delayed. Your prediction of Ukrainian demise within one week proved not only laughable, but the Ruskies lost key battles running from Kyiv and Kharkiv. Make a video game of that. Currently the Ukrainians are staging counter offensives in the South. The outcome will likely come at the negotiating table where Ukraine will be in a much better position than your bend over and grab their ankles, throw their identity, culture, women, and children to the wolves suggestion. While Russia has already lost the war with the failures of their key objectives, embarrassments on the battlefield, weighty economic sanctions, and worldwide pariah status.

[URL]https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/chief-executive-leadership-institute-research-insights-business-retreats-and-sanctions[/URL]

From the Western perspective, we've done what we had to do, sent the message that if one wants to change borders in Europe with aggression then there will be consequences. The appeasement you suggest of course invites more aggression. Thankfully that's how our politicians and most Americans see it. If that troubles you then you are free to surrender the freedoms you are enjoying and move to totalitarian Russia, say something they don't like, get caught with a joint and spend 15 years in Siberia. But instead you'll just hang out in the US all day posting in Stupid Shit in Kyiv. None of your predictions have panned out so far so we'll see how it goes. That or tell us all about everything you heard and saw in the Ukraine when we know you've never been. Wink.

P.S. Gas prices dropping, 50+ days and running.

[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2729238]Pres. Z. is playing the same game you are playing, he is getting many incident people killed in the process[/QUOTE]Well you got all the Russo propaganda / lingo down, now all you need is a "Z" t-shirt to wear. Or maybe you can come up with a Z flag to fly beside your Trump flag. I'm sure all the "incident" people in your trailer park will be very impressed. LOL Meanwhile the vast majority of even Republicans support lethal aid to Ukraine so we are in good shape.

Slava Ukraini.

[QUOTE=Travv;2729266]More support for your statement below from Gonzalo Lira:

"For those new to this blog and unfamiliar with TTG, TTG is a retired US Army Special Forces officer of Lithuanian heritage. He no longer thinks rationally about war. His hatred of all things Russian cloud his judgment. He asserts that I am drinking Moscow's kool-aid because I point out the obviousRussia is winning and will defeat Ukraine completely and decisively. TTG insists that the arrival of HIMARS and M777's are game changers and, wait for it, the Ukrainians will mount the ultimate offensive and push the Russians back to Moscow. Normally, I would not want to waste time to engage such nonsense but in this case I think it is warranted.

. . The fact that [b]Ukraine had a three to one advantage[/b] and were embedded in defensive positions should have led to the defeat of the Russians. [/QUOTE]I've almost quit arguing about politics in this and the other forums, but this lie is so dumb and outrageous--how can I just let it go?

February 2022, before the Russian invasion. Source: Global Firepower.

[URL]https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=ukraine&country2=russia[/URL]

Russia; Ukraine.

Active Personnel: 850,000; 200,000.

Paramilitary: 250,000; 50,000.

Tanks: 12,420; 2,596.

Armored Vehicles: 30,122; 12,303.

Total Aircraft: 4,945; 387.

Total Helicopters: 2,087; 146.

Naval Fleet: 605; 38.

[QUOTE=Paulie97;2729323]That's what I call service. My post wasn't up 30 minutes and you've already posted a reply. Stupid Shit in Kyiv is no doubt a great place to build your life around. Wink.

You whine with the same mantra over and over daily for months but your only alternative is for Ukraine to surrender their country, their culture and identity, toss their women to the wolves, accept tortures and executions, and submit their children to deportations and "re-education. " That isn't an option for them nor do they want it, irrespective of Zelensky. It's also not an option for the West to look the other way at this aggression against a democratic partner.

You are delusional in that your analysis is way overly simplistic with use of the black and white thinking fallacy. There are other possible outcomes besides a complete Russian defeat and surrender or else Ukraine should bend over and grab their ankles.

[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/black-or-white[/URL]

There's unlikely to be any clear cut winner and loser as in one side unconditionally surrenders. Even if Russia managed to occupy Ukraine there would still be armed resistance. Occupying territory is one thing. Holding it is another. Russia isn't going to use nukes as that's suicide. Even if only tactical nukes they'd lose the few friends they have left in the world. So with that hardly at risk and NATO weapons and greater motivation among the Ukrainians in play, it's a pretty fair fight. Russian casualties and humiliation have been high, and it would be much worse if our weapons support wasn't restrained and delayed. Your prediction of Ukrainian demise within one week proved not only laughable, but the Ruskies lost key battles running from Kyiv and Kharkiv. Make a video game of that. Currently the Ukrainians are staging counter offensives in the South. The outcome will likely come at the negotiating table where Ukraine will be in a much better position than your bend over and grab their ankles, throw their identity, culture, women, and children to the wolves suggestion. While Russia has already lost the war with the failures of their key objectives, embarrassments on the battlefield, weighty economic sanctions, and worldwide pariah status.

[URL]https://som.yale.edu/story/2022/chief-executive-leadership-institute-research-insights-business-retreats-and-sanctions[/URL]

From the Western perspective, we've done what we had to do, sent the message that if one wants to change borders in Europe with aggression then there will be consequences. The appeasement you suggest of course invites more aggression. Thankfully that's how our politicians and most Americans see it. If that troubles you then you are free to surrender the freedoms you are enjoying and move to totalitarian Russia, say something they don't like, get caught with a joint and spend 15 years in Siberia. But instead you'll just hang out in the US all day posting in Stupid Shit in Kyiv. None of your predictions have panned out so far so we'll see how it goes. That or tell us all about everything you heard and saw in the Ukraine when we know you've never been. Wink.

P.S. Gas prices dropping, 50+ days and running.[/QUOTE]You have never been to Ukraine, but why would that matter. Yes, good news that gas prices are falling.

Occasionally, maybe you could write a post about a girl or getting laid. I spent Saturday in MTY and now I am CDMX, having a great trip. You are probably slumming somewhere in Colombia, chasing fat chicks.

[QUOTE=Travv;2729266] He asserts that I am drinking Moscow's kool-aid because I point out the obviousRussia is winning and will defeat Ukraine completely and decisively.[/QUOTE]Then what the hell are they waiting for? 6 months in and as it stands now they've lost in the range of 40 to 75 K personnel, 1,768 of those silly jack in the box death trap tanks, 4,014 armored combat vehicles, 936 artillery systems, 223 aircraft, 117 air defense systems, 2,914 vehicles and tankers, 15 ships, etc. Etc. And all for marginal gains and two humiliating tuck tail and run defeats at Ukraine's two largest cities. Throw in the heavy economic sanctions, the many grieving Russian families of the war dead who are scared to speak out, the fact that win, lose or draw Russia is a pariah for generations, and thus far it's a lousy return on the investment, to say the least. Better shit or get off the pot. That or start to take negotiations seriously. Ukraine can field an army in the one million range and support from the West shows little signs of waning.

Puts can start by dropping the "de-Nazification" hogwash, while those on the extreme right represent only 2% of the voting population of Ukraine and have won no seats in parliament. And no the Jewish president, son of Holocaust survivors isn't a Nazi plant. LOL In case no one has noticed the Ruskies have a penchant for silly conspiracy theories just like the MAGAs, and the stance is always that of victimization while acting as the aggressor. That better explains Trump's role as Russo suck up while some of his followers have taken the same cue, shameful and unAmerican.

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2729446]I've almost quit arguing about politics in this and the other forums, but this lie is so dumb and outrageous--how can I just let it go?[/QUOTE]Based on that criteria you'll be posting here every day, several times a day as the supply of lies, half-truths, and logical fallacies is boundless. Best policy is to not login to the site if you have more important and productive things to do.

You also forgot to tally the unofficial and official assistance of the US Army as shown in the original attached photo entering Ukraine! The power of US Diversity and Gay Pride will defeat Russian Masculinity and the Patriarchy! LOL!

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2729446]I've almost quit arguing about politics in this and the other forums, but this lie is so dumb and outrageous--how can I just let it go?

February 2022, before the Russian invasion. Source: Global Firepower.

[URL]https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=ukraine&country2=russia[/URL]

Russia; Ukraine.

Active Personnel: 850,000; 200,000..[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Xpartan;2729446]I've almost quit arguing about politics in this and the other forums, but this lie is so dumb and outrageous--how can I just let it go?

February 2022, before the Russian invasion. Source: Global Firepower.

[URL]https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-comparison-detail.php?country1=ukraine&country2=russia[/URL]

Russia; Ukraine.

Active Personnel: 850,000; 200,000..[/QUOTE]XMan you finally wrote a good report. I never thought Ukraine had a 3-1 edge. The rest of his report is correct about the desertions and as the war drags on it will become a bigger issue for Ukraine. They have no reserve units and grandparents do not count.