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FKKs have their share of issues, granted the vast majority of women who work in these clubs are unable to find normal employment, some are in it because a normal job doesn't pay well. The trafficking part is definitely real, FKK Atlantis was closed down because of it. Germany isn't the only country with this problem, its a worldwide issue. Even the USA is just as bad in this regard, there's a movie coming out about trafficking in the US.
The truth in FKK's is pretty much what Shiatsu says, he has the most first hand knowledge from the reports of the women and their stories to his wife who works on an off in the club.
I know pretty well how clubs work and how the women get into the business and how the club goes about recruiting new talent.
In the major german FK's there is virtually no one traficked against their will from any part of the world for the purposes of working in the clubs.
There are a good number of women who have arranged to be traficked or gotten legal statuss for the purposes of working as a prostitute to earn money. the story "they thought they were going to work as a waitress" is as believeable as tellin oyur wife you got a venreal disease from a toilet at a hotel. Maybe ten years ago, maybe ot work in an albanian brothel next to a UN base, but not in a real FKK.
some of the girls have help to get legal status, that costs them money, but no one is takig away passports and forcing them to work. girls need to be in possession of their own legal papers in order to work, and they are pretty much free to come and go as they please (within resasonable working hours and some house rules about if they coe they have to stay, just like we can't come and go as we please from work. But if they decide they just don't want to work anymore, they can pick up all their stuff and just catch a cab and go.
Do some girls have pimps, yes. But that is the case anywhere in the world. Most clubs don't like the idea of pimps and they advertise themselves in newspapers and the industry magazines for girls with legal status who are interested to call. they prefer if the girl comes herself and they don't like dealing with the managers.
Clubs sometimes go to an area (country, city) to recruit. There they might know a couple of people who are fom a more underground sort of scene who might know the type of girls who would be interested in this line of work. They might also know people who can organize the legal status. But they aren't recruiting any girls who don't know what exactly the job entails.
Anything else is bull shit.
Hello,
Anyone know of any clubs in or near Mannheim (D-68199)? It's about an hour south of Frankfurt. If anyone knows of any action at all in the area I would appreciate it. I'll be there on the evening of 9th Feb. and I'll be in Palace on 10th.
Regards
There are only two ways that an FKK can get into trouble, drugs and illegally trafficked girls. There are random police controls that try to weed out the problem. I have talked to many girls that I have been a repeat customer of, and of those that told me their story, none even remotely sounded like they were surprised by what they got themselves into. So I tend to think that illegal trafficking of girls or drug dealing is fairly rare in the large clubs, considering what they stand to lose if they get caught.
The guys from Atlantis, though, managed to hit the rare double. Now, if you frequented Atlantis in the hey days of that club, you would have probably sworn that neither would occur there. And still it did, Atlantis got shut down, and the guys got caught in Spain after they had escaped the country.
Bottom line: one can never be sure, but overwhelmingly the FKK experience is about as clean as you can hope.
euro
fkks provide as ideal situation as possible from coersion since everything is visible. you are more likely to get trafficking in the us where the business has to go underground to escape the police. there you also tend to get ****d girls who are easily exploited by the system. it is very hard to traffic girls when their is a neutral police presence. further, since there are girls from many countries, it is impossible for them not to share information to the detriment of trafficers. finally, my experience with the girls shows a high level of intelligence (language capability and education) and entrepreneurial drive. neither of these are common in trafficked girls.
Kapalika - my guess is that it is a very small percentage. If they dislike it that much they tend not to stay
Most German FKKs don't have trafficked women, but you never can tell. Regardless its better to keep your mouth shut unless you have Tony Soprano for backup, there is an underworld element in Germany, mostly Russian. A few years ago, the owner of a small club outside of Frankfurt, his wife and a couple of prostitutes were found dead and their bodies were ridden with bullets. Trafficking is a lot worse in the UK and USA, almost half of the women in Soho are definitely held against their will.
I don't know what crack the owners of Atlantis were smoking if they wanted to flee the German authorities, they should have ran to Brazil, maybe even Singapore. There were a lot of armed security thugs at Atlantis, it made me very
suspicious seeing a guy with a goatee and a .45 in a country where the police themselves rarely carry weapons.
I am going to be in Cologne (Köln) later this month, and want to go to a FKK club or two. Given that:
* I am new to FKK clubs (but not to the hobby)
* I won't have a car so I want places accessible by S-Bahn etc
* My German isn't really up to holding conversations
* I'm attracted to the idea of sex in (semi) public areas
Does anyone have suggestions? After reading reports here, I thought perhaps of Samya and Sudbad.
LondonBoy,
You answered your own question. Possibly add Schieferhof if you are there on a weekday. It is accessible with public transit, and would take about 40 minutes from Köln main train station.
London Boy, you answered your own question, Sudbad and Samya are the two biggest clubs in Koln, you also might want to try Bablyon and Wiago.
Babylon is almost impossible to get to by public transport. Wiago should be possible, but the place is a hole!
If you take the S-Bahn to Horrem, you can take a taxi to Babylon, the last time I visited the club took a nosedive in quality, I recall a few years before I only saw Playboy quality there, the last time it was really lame, even a lot of other top clubs did not impress me. Two of the hottest women I met while in DE over the past year were not even hookers, one was a bank teller and the other was secretary.
London Boy,
With reference to Samya - please check their website - it provides full instructions to get there by Public transport - from the local train it is about a 5 -6 minute walk. Come down the ramp and head up the street. Can't miss the building with bright yellow color scheme. Count on a 40 minute travel time total from downtown.
While I enjoyed myself at Samya very much and will go again - your comment about enjoying sex in a semi-public setting - a la FKK kino's I imagine you were thinking about. I don't think that you would find this at Samya at least from my visit experience since a move upstairs tot he rooms seemed to be the norm - a bit of light foreplay but anything else didn't seem to be encouraged downstairs.
If that is important then of course you could always ask a fellow guest and his "date de moment" to join you and yours upstairs in the room.
Samya is pretty much a German speaking place - my German is terrible but I managed to my full enjoyment. Very nice facilities - not very big, but friendly with mostly locals and seemingly regulars.
Enjoy.
The issue of trafficking is somewhat of a red herring and beloved it must be said of the Press for whom any sensible appraisal of the sex industry is politically incorrect. While what is said in this forum is fundamentally true, it is not quite the case that girls are free agents in Germany.
There are two types of girls in the clubs, those who are freelancers and those who have pimps. There is only one kind of club owner - legal but with the mentality of a crook.
The freelance girls are those who seek work in FKK clubs because it is safe for them to do so. They pay their 'rent' to the club, usually about 60 Euros a day, and keep all the rest. They have no 'boyfriend' taking half their money. These girls are mostly German or other EU nationals (not the new EU states). And by and large they are all girls with financial problems of one sort or another.
The rest, and I mean all the East Europeans, are recruited by pimps. The clubs pay the pimps 500 Euros a girl with the condition that the girl must stay three months are the club. If she doesn't he gets no money. So there is heavy and sometimes nasty pressure on the girl to behave, work and earn back the five hundred.
It is inevitable that a girl from the East will fall into the hands of a pimp. First she needs someone to look after her: find her a club, find her somewhere to stay, take her to the club each day and so on.
What the girls are offered is the equivalent of the 'golden handcuffs' in any high earning normal job. The point of the system in the sex industry is to make it very difficult for the girls to leave a club. No club owner wants to be perpetually looking for girls, especially if they are good. So he has to ensure that there is an incentive to stay, or rather a discentive to leave.
This can sometimes take the form of threats to ban a girl from the club if she leaves and goes somewhere else.
Regular visitors to FKK clubs will have noticed that few German girls now work in these clubs. So it logically follows that the sex industry is falling more and more into the hands of the crimminal elements from Eastern Europe, as this is where the vast majority of the girls now come from.
It is ironic that a country such as Germany keen to make pay sex safe and drive the crooks and bad boys out finds itself now overrun with girls who totally depend on pimps who in their turn are not the nicest of people. This is why the German police now conduct more raids on FKK clubs than ever before.
The system should work to allow girlsl to govern their own destinies but it doesn't work perfectly. In practice pimping and a degree of coercing still exists. First each girl feels they need a protector of some sort in a strange land and secondly the pimp himself is not inclined to the milk of human kindness when a girl says she doesn't like the job much.
Even in the rest of the trade in the puffs and apartments there are girls who have 'boyfriends' and they belong to these men. If the girl wants to leave him and go to another 'boyfriend' then there is what amounts to a transfer fee paid by the new pimp. The owners of these establishments do not take a daily fee from the girls, they take half their money. So a girl earning 3,000 Euros a month (the average for non FKK clubs) will only see 1,500 of it.
As for club owners, well it is still true that many of the FKK clubs in Germany are owned by Hells Angels. Either that or the Angels extract protection money from club owners. Bike gangs are very nasty people in Europe and clubs depend on them to provide minders and heavies to throw out unwanted guests.
Every big club has CCTV for two reasons, to watch the girls and to watch you. The girls are watched for drugs, the men for attempting to solicit private numbers and arrange private sessions outside the club. Any girl suspected of doing private work on the side is instantly got rid of - as in any job.
Drugs are a serious problem in clubs. Let's not pretend otherwise. How else can a normal girl get through fucking an average of seven men a day seven days a week without doing her head in?
The vast majority of the women are not German, though there are quite a few there as well, a lot of local foreigners who are legal residents of Germany work in
these establishments. Generally most women who get into this sort of work are low on the socioeconomic ladder, wait a minute, all of them are low on this ladder.