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While likely not really the intended discussion, since no one else has much to say on the topic ...
Politics in the Phils are a very touch subject. Careful what you say! It's not uncommon for someone to ask me for my opinion. It may be just casual talk, or it may be to feel me out for possible allegiances, pro or con. Unless you are *absolutely* certain about the neutrality (is anyone neutral here?) of who you're talking to, be vague. Be very vague. Leave them guessing as to you opinion instead of giving them any opportunity to read personal leanings into your comments no matter how innocently intended.
Discounting insurgencies, there are basically two "sides" to politics in the Philippines, with party names that are about as rigid as water vapour, and it shifts all the time. In short and in current context, there's the Estrada (locked up)/FPJ-jr(deceased)/VP-wannabe (don't remember female name), etc group, and then of course there's PGMA/DeCastro, etc currently in power and under constant threat of impeachement and/or coup by the other side. Google if you want more background.
The point is that as a foreigner (that's likely you if you're reading this), you really don't want to get mixed up in this, it's likely not what you're in the Phils for and is certainly not good for your health.
I've seen fights over this. I've seen blood seeping from dead people over this. I know when to keep my mouth shut and be "somewhere else", so far. Wise foreigners will do the same. Wise locals do the same! Even if you LIVE here, unless you're born Pinoy you're a foreigner. Have a-political friends. Sure they have political alliances, but when you have personal friends on both sides it's hard to be accused of taking sides, especially when you're ultra careful not to say something stupid.
Example, a couple of years ago I was in a small, hole-in-the-wall bar in the province, and someone a little too well dressed starts wanting to be my friend and talking politics. He's obviously well armed (no check for firearms in this place). I politely and very vaguely converse with him, buy him a beer, and make great effort (he doesn't like me to bail) to get the hell away Real Fast. Time to be somewhere else! Haven't seen him since, but without doubt instinct served me well, again.
Yes, everyone isn't getting their fair share. If you have to explain it, point the conversation to global (meaning outside Phils) politics. Pinoys commiserate with being screwed by foreigners, so if you're all on the same side, It's not only much safer, it's true!
One thing I absolutely must agree with aking asawa about is "stay out of politics"! I've been asked many times to run for local office where we live, and I always just tell them "bawal ako". They say "bakit, walang problema dito ka", and my answer is just that my wife won't let me. Good excuse and they let me live, and we all share drinks on occasion and I vaguelly agree with everyone's bitching about life in general, and life goes on.
I am a"player"in Philippine politics because at a certain level you need the contacts,I was part of the Official Philippine Delegation to a travel show in Hong Kong recently.Since I was part of a delegation,I was given free space at the Philippine booth and the mini trade show that basically saved me a few thousand dollars.I know the Philippine Tourism Secretary and all the Undersecretaries on a personal basis.Ditto for the Governor of Cebu and Mayor and Vice Mayor of Cebu City.That being said,It is better not get involved unless you are a long term resident and NEED something from the Philippine Goverment.It can be dangerous to be on the LOSING side.But its nice to have contacts.CanContrib,Kaibigan ko Si Cong Boying Remulla at Vice Gov Johnvic.So you know I understand how bloody politics can be in your area.It is best you stay out of local politics there.To the monger populance at large.THE PHILIPPINE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS CONCLUDED PHILIPPINE POLITICS IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH.My 2 Centavos opinion
[QUOTE=Cebu Local] ... CanContrib,Kaibigan ko Si Cong Boying Remulla at Vice Gov Johnvic.So you know I understand how bloody politics can be in your area.It is best you stay out of local politics there.To the monger populance at large.THE PHILIPPINE DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH HAS CONCLUDED PHILIPPINE POLITICS IS DANGEROUS TO YOUR HEALTH.My 2 Centavos opinion[/QUOTE]
Marunong sha!
If you are a foeigner, the dumbest, stupidest and no doubt the most dangerous thing you can do is discuss, support or get invovled in (kiss of death) influence Philippine politics.
When Filipinos start discussing such matters in my presence i find a (polite) reason to excuse myself. If they ask me my opinion, I shrug my shoulders and play dumb foreigner and say I've dont understand what is going on, its a great country and Filipinos treat me well and all the big bad old countries should stop picking on the poor RP because it has so many nice people who just need a break. I usually begin bitching about how corrupt and messed up US politicians are to divert their attention if they persist.
Any foreigner/visitor or expat should adopt the same attitude and probably some Filipinos as well. Much healthier in the long run
Spam Hog
[QUOTE=Spam Hog]If you are a foeigner, the dumbest, stupidest and no doubt the most dangerous thing you can do is discuss, support or get invovled in (kiss of death) influence Philippine politics.[/QUOTE]Absolutely, even more dangerous than pretending to be dripping foreign currency, especially outside of Metro Manila.[QUOTE=Spam Hog]When Filipinos start discussing such matters in my presence i find a (polite) reason to excuse myself. If they ask me my opinion, I shrug my shoulders and play dumb foreigner and say I've dont understand what is going on, its a great country and Filipinos treat me well and all the big bad old countries should stop picking on the poor RP because it has so many nice people who just need a break. I usually begin bitching about how corrupt and messed up US politicians are to divert their attention if they persist.[/QUOTE]Strange but now that you mention it that's exactly what I instinctively and truthfully start ranting about my own country of origin! You want to see mega-$ corruption, look WEST to where it's mostly legal![QUOTE=Spam Hog]Any foreigner/visitor or expat should adopt the same attitude and probably some Filipinos as well. Much healthier in the long run.Spam Hog[/QUOTE]The one thing (aside from politics, which are obviously fractional, so don't take sides where you have no right to take sides), is to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] off citizens with any *perceived* lack of respect for *their* country, no matter how messed up it may be. Locals feel much better knowing that life isn't the "Pot of Gold at the End of the Rainbow" they've been somewhat falsely led to believe by other locals trying to extract their money for vaugue and usually false promises.
Bottom line: citizens by virtue of birth have a native right to "BE RIGHT" and even naturalized residents don't share that same "right". Anyone wanting to try should FIRST get a Pinoy body-transplant, and even then might wish to consider how much Pinoy blood is shed almost daily over politics.
[QUOTE=Cebu Local]I am a"player"in Philippine politics because at a certain level you need the contacts, ... [/QUOTE] I should comment on this. Yes, you can be a "player" if you have an over-riding need to be, but be careful and as much as possible low-key. Let the citizens take the credit for whatever you help them with and be happy with the benefits you derive by doing so. Obviously CebuLocal, you know that, so my comment is for the benefit of anyone who might not yet have figured that out.
manila -- thousands of anti-charter change (cha-cha) protesters trooped to makati city friday, showing off a multi-sectoral opposition against moves to amend the 1987 constitution and possibly extend president gloria macapagal-arroyo's term.
threat of bad weather did not dampen the protesters composed of civil society groups such as the black and white movement, concerned citizen movement, united filipinos against cha-cha, and bangon filipino.
arroyo watch: sun.star blog on president arroyo
militant groups like bagong alyansang makabayan (bayan), partidong manggagawa, gabriela, courage, bukluran ng manggagawang pilipino, sanlakas, and akbayan also attended the rally.
they marched along paseo de roxas avenue to the foot of the ninoy aquino monument where the rally, which started about 4 p.m., was held.
not even the absence of ousted president joseph estrada, opposition titular head, could dampen the fervor of the rallyists who whooped every time a speaker mounted the makeshift stage to decry the move at the house of representatives to amend the charter.
senator jinggoy estrada told the crowd that his father could not come. "the doctor called and told us that my grandmother is in serious condition. i ask for your understanding," he said.
the former president had to attend to his ailing mother, 103-year-old doña mary, at the san juan medical center.
jinggoy added that even if his father is not physically present, he is one with the people in joining the opposition against any amendment to the constitution.
he criticized the administration congressmen for pursuing cha-cha.
former president estrada, though warned by the administration against taking part in any anti-government protest, earlier said he would join the protest to ensure that president arroyo could not deprive the filipino masses of their duly elected president for the third time.
"we cannot and will not allow mrs. arroyo or these power-hungry congressmen to stay in power beyond 2010 through charter change," he said.
the elder estrada stressed that rewriting the constitution should be done after the 2010 national elections.
senator mar roxas, who led the contingent from the liberal party along with senator rodolfo biazon, muntinlupa representative ruffy biazon and former senate president franklin drilon, also called on the people to unite against cha-cha.
"i hope we will be able to stop cha-cha since that would be like allowing the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] of our constitution," roxas said.
leading members of the former senior government officials (fsgo) in decrying corruption in the arroyo administration is former senator vicente paterno.
paterno branded the arroyo administration as the worst government, much worse than the late strongman ferdinand marcos.
"for 45 years since the time of former president diosdado macapagal, this is the most corrupt administration," he said.
civil society lawyer and university of the philippines (up) college of law professor harry roque joined the crowd in chanting "no to cha-cha lalo na kay gloria."
on the other hand, film producer armida siguioin-reyna delivered a revolutionary poem enjoining the people to walk from its long stupor and unite to uphold the interest of the country.
united opposition (uno) president and makati mayor jejomar binay called the cha-cha move as a "work of deception" and said the administration is mistaken in its belief that the opposition of the move is limited to them.
"we would not stop the fight against cha-cha no matter what happens," binay said.
other political and known personalities who joined the rally expressed the same sentiment.
bayan secretary general renato reyes accused the police of "harassment" and trying to "delay people from attending the protest," citing the alleged arrest in cubao, quezon city by highway patrol group policemen of activists from the muslim-christian alliance.
reyes said the activists were hauled off to camp crame.
he also said a contingent from cavite, whom police had reportedly prevented from going to metro manila, decided to commute to the rally.
the militant leader said a contingent from bataan, led by bishop socrates villegas, was also blocked by police at the north luzon expressway.
but national capital region police office (ncrpo) director leopoldo bataoil denied that authorities blocked or interfered with the protesters.
"we are just here to protect the people from any harm and criminal elements," said bataoil.
the police official, in media interviews, refused to give their estimate of the crowd. "i am leaving it to the rally organizers since we are not engaged in a numbers game here," he said.
"i will respect their crowd estimate. i will not argue on figures. anyway, the media saw it for themselves. i just want to assure the people that whether the crowd is big or small, the ncrpo will render its best to protect the people," bataoil added.
the ncrpo tactical operations center said they have not monitored any disturbance during the rally as of 7 p.m. (ah/sunnex)
for more philippine news, visit sun.star cagayan de oro.
(december 13, 2008 issue
I appreciate DW’s efforts to share political current events in this thread of the forum. Advice from two years ago in this little used thread was probably appropriate: foreigners should avoid Philippine political debates and squabbles with any locals that you don’t already know very well. On the other hand, keeping abreast of current events is also prudent, even if only to avoid getting sucked into the latest “people power” protest or being able to recognize and avoid political hotheads. In keeping with the post that DW offered, here’s this morning’s latest version of the con-ass protest from The Philippine Daily Inquirer, an avowedly anti-establishment English language paper:
[url]http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/inquirerheadlines/nation/view/20081213-177739/Rage-vs-Arroyo-Charter-change[/url]
What is con-ass? It’s short for Constitutional Assembly -- in a version that opponents have coined to be able to cast it in derisive terms. In the most far-reaching dreams of some the goal of con-ass is to replace the current presidentialist system with a parliamentary form of government. Doing this would require convening a constitutional assembly and making major changes to the constitution. In recent years Philippine government has been unable to act decisively, in part because the two houses of the Congress are controlled by opposing parties. The House is dominated by the party of President Gloria Macapagal Arroyo (GMA), and the Senate is dominated by the opposition party, nominally under the leadership of the former deposed President, Joseph Estrada. GMA’s supporters are the principal advocates for charter reform.
Setting aside the various political ambitions of individuals, advocates argue that a Parlimentary form would help overcome the congressional stalemate. That is, in a unicameral parliament a majority party or coalition majority selects a prime minister so that there’s ostensible agreement between the chief executive and the ruling parliamentary party. The Parlimentary form has generally proven itself more successful: with the exception of the United States, all the major enduring democracies of the world have parliamentary systems. The Philippines is typical of most presidentialist systems in developing countries: real political progress is invariably stalemated by the many oppositional parties that emerge, and so political action occurs primarily only from a “strongman” (in this case “strongwoman”) who operates in various illegal ways, often with the blessing of and payoffs to a few powerful families, the military, police, and the Catholic Church.
Regardless what may be desirable, however, many groups suspect that the real reason for proposing a constitutional assembly is to make it possible for Gloria Arroyo to serve beyond the term she would otherwise complete in 2010. Under the current constitution the president is limited to a single term of six years, but GMA will have served nearly nine years, since, as Vice President under Estrada, she assumed the presidency when he was deposed in 2001 and then was elected in a controversial election of her own in 2004. Her presidency has been characterized by a succession of alleged corruption episodes and accusations of vote fixing in the 2004 election. Her popularity rating would be competitive with George Bush’s popularity.
So, set in this context, the recent 7 to 8,000 strong protest in Makati is the Filipinos’ way of trying to stimulate another people power protest like the ones that toppled Ferdinand Marcos in 1987 and Joseph Estrada in 2001.
[QUOTE=Skip Kost] Entire post ...[/QUOTE]
Appreciate your excellent summing-up of the factional cess pool that constitutes Philippine politics. Its not something that most mongers take an interest in and with good reason for it is in a foreigners best interests to keep as far from away from the local political arena as conceivably possible. I have opinions on the governance of the country and the connivance s and mismanagement of its leaders but I would not dream of sharing them with a local. When its comes to political matters I take on the role of the stupid, grinning, prevaricating foreigner (not hard for me I assure you!). It is safer that way. Polititic's in the Philippines is a profession only slightly safer than Journalism. The pension pool of both professions must be huge as I imagine very few in either profession make it safely to retirement. Would advise anyone here to be aware of the issues but never discuss them with a Filipino and NEVER EVER in any way become involved.
if it is best to stay away from politics, how do you explain the involvement of radical missionaries and others campaigning against angeles? how come those guys don't get a bullet or, at the least, a deportation order and a speedy one way ticket out of the country? i know ignorance is bliss but inquiring minds want to know.
these missionaries are players and are a right pain in the ass for those theyattack. so, how come no accidents and deportation orders?
[quote=the departed]if it is best to stay away from politics, how do you explain the involvement of radical missionaries and others campaigning against angeles? how come those guys don't get a bullet or, at the least, a deportation order and a speedy one way ticket out of the country? i know ignorance is bliss but inquiring minds want to know.
these missionaries are players and are a right pain in the ass for those theyattack. so, how come no accidents and deportation orders?[/quote]
i was, of course, referring to individuals. however, i would be surprised if it was not the policy for any in-country ngo, to avoid, as far as possible, any involvement in philippine political processes.
is the group you refer to an ngo? what is their name? i certainly have not heard of such an organisation.
[QUOTE=Gamahucher]Is the group you refer to an NGO? What is their name? I certainly have not heard of such an organisation.[/QUOTE]
The Departed, who certainly has a point here, might be referring to NGO's such as PREDA.
While it's probably very beneficial for your health to stay out of local politics, there's IMHO no reason to act as you're scared shitless if asked your opinion by a filipino. Be sensible but be a man, not a chicken. There might be negative implications if somebody senses your weakness too.
[QUOTE=Pute Nut]The Departed, who certainly has a point here, might be referring to NGO's such as PREDA.
While it's probably very beneficial for your health to stay out of local politics, there's IMHO no reason to act as you're scared shitless if asked your opinion by a filipino. Be sensible but be a man, not a chicken. There might be negative implications if somebody senses your weakness too.[/QUOTE]
Shit mayne, I will speak my mind on any subject to anyone that’s just me. As for Philippine politics, can't speak on that, even though I live here the government policies besides the foreigners can't own land bit don’t affect me much. Another thing I don’t know who is who in the political arena here.
Two topics I never (and I mean NEVER) discuss at a party are politics and religion. Sure fire way for things to turn ugly.
Non the less, (one word? ), I think it does all mongers and visitors well to have some intell on the political stability of a country we are visiting. Just my HO of course. I still like to know what is going on in a country as to be able to make informed, important decisions. Like which bar to avoid, et al.