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Surfer:
Thanks, for your understanding that people are people, no matter what the shade of their skin is.
Guys, lo siento, but I feel that there are two races. The human race and the rat race!
I belong to the human race, no matter the color of my skin or the color of my eyes, we are all basically the same inside and out!
The one thing that really seperates the man that has and the man that has nada, is not the color of his skin!
That seperation is mainly due to one thing, Education or lack there of!
One of the first things that I tell another person from a different countries, is that he is no better then me, and I'm no better then him. In my book we are all equal, the fact that I'm an American is a mere accident of birth!
Sorry guys, for my little commentary.
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I'd like to thank the recent posters for their homilies on equality of the races and all that, but I am unmoved. You see, its my duty to report the city as I see it, not as how the Cartagena board 'residents' push it. Just the truth. No more, no less.
Again, Cartagena has a large black population that is poor, and hustling for a living. You can't avoid them. Readers who are mostly caucasian and are huddled around their computers in living rooms in suburbs of American cities and contemplating a visit to Colombia, should know this. They should know what they are in for before they spend time and money on a trip to Cartagena.
To the equality merchants, this: I'm caucasian and married to a dark Latina. We have two beautiful kids. Therefore, you ask, do I believe in equality of the races? Answer: I'm too busy banging anything that is female and atrractive of ANY race to pay any attention to this horseshit.
Often, in a restaurant or somesuch, my wife and I receive better than average treatment if the maitre'd or whatever is black. Obviously they approve of our mixed marriage and probably think I'm cool. Bullshit! My old lady is hot and we're together because, among other things, I had to bang her. She knows this and we have a good laugh about it. Then we give the guy a good tip and thats it.
Don
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Um, "large Black population" sounds like a great place to experience real-ideal women! Sick of all the poor Dogs in Russia husling for a living.
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I understand what Dashing Don is saying. Sadly the racial composition of many societies is similar to the socio economic structure. We kind of accept socio-economic inequalities but we really do not accept racial inequality. In other words, it is easier to accept if the touts were of all colours and the wealthy were of all colours than if the touts were all black and the wealthy were all white. Sadly again, we are likely to see more of the latter than the former in many parts of the world.
Just my 2 cents.
I look forward to seeing CTG for myself later in the year.
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Anyone in CTG 5/21-5/26? PM me will love to check out the LDV with people of same mongering interests!
Max
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Don: I am NOT suggesting that your post was racist. Rather, I was merely CORRECTING two of your erroneous assumptions: 1, that Cali does not have a large Black population and 2) that poverty is the root cause of the pervasive touts in CTG. With all due respect, I know Colombia MUCH better than you do and I KNOW where there are touts and where they are not. Touts go where foreign tourists go, PERIOD. There are NO OTHER FACTORS, get it? Cartagena, because of the tourism industry, is MUCH wealthier than Cali, yet in 5 trips to Cali I have NEVER seen a single tout. IF there are any, they will be encamped outside gringo central AKA Hotel Inter (which I avoid like the plague despite its lovely color-a joke that anyone who has SEEN IT will understand). And they are NOT everywhere in CTG; they are in Bocagrande and the tourist parts of the Ciudad Vieja. WHY? Because that is where the tourists and their money are to be found.
Finally, and REITERATING that I am NOT calling you a racist, the fact that you are married to a Latina does NOT prove the ABSENCE of any bias against Blacks. Japanese men LOVE White girls, yet they are still the most racist people ON EARTH IMHO. I will say that the more you try and "defend" against a charge of racism that was never made, you begin to lend credence to those who might ascribe some racial animus to your posts. There were no "homilies on equality of the races" at all and your response merely evaded responding to the points made above, to wit, that touts go where foreigners go. THAT simple.
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Surfer,
Hear, Hear! Well said!
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Gee! thanks Surfer. NOW I get it. The touts go to Cartagena because thats where the tourists are, and not because they are desperately poor. I get it. I get it. Never thought of that scratching my head).
Surfer, I have no doubt that you know Colombia MUCH better than I, but how come you don't share that knowledge. Your posts are really just critiques of other people's posts. If you know so much, how come you didn't inform the huddled masses of mongers out there about the tout problem? Your trite response that the touts will go away if you tell them that you don't have any money is crap. These guys will follow you for blocks. The massage ladies will harrass you for ten to fifteen minutes before finally taking a hike. Don't you think the mongers will want to know that out of every hour spent on the beach, at least a half hour of that will be taken up fighting off touts. I take full credit for raising this all-important issue. How come you didn't, with all your experience. I get it, I get it: you were too busy CORRECTING other people's posts.
You gotta understand what the mongers are interested in. When it comes to Colombia, they're worried about whether they'll get kidnapped at the airport, or robbed, or get caught up in a shootout between the narcos. What does the city look like. They also want to know what the women look like ( a fabulous mixture of Indian, European and African). So get off your high horse and give it to them.
Don
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You're Right Surfer the touts follow the toruists whereever they go. Well just a few months back I was sipping rum and cokes at a tout's mansion and he told me he was considering a trip to Cannes for the film festival because he was certain that there would be many, many tourists there. He said that you couldn't put a price on the pleasure he derives from harassing tourists whereever he can find them. So you are clearly correct in you statement that poverty plays no role in the tout mentality their are NO OTHER FACTORS than their pervassive desire to harrass tourists. Another enlightening post Surfer, Thanks.
To the rest of you -- who might think that these are poverty stricken people trying to scratch out an existence in an economy with rampant unemplyment and a truly ineffectual education system and have therefore been drawn like moths to a light bulb to a location where people might have the disposible income to buy their worthless baubles-- you're all wrong. To the rest of you -- that might think that these touts probably don't enjoy harassing you any more than you like being harassed and that claim to hear a hint of desperation in their voices -- you are a pack of of bleeding heart liberal panzies. Now shut up, Surfer might have something else to say.
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Peace, guys !!
Make love, not war. Remember?
A close friend of mine was in Cartagena just last week, and he came back enchanted with the girls. He did 4 amateurs (no pros) and I have seen some pictures. They were really hot.
He also raved on their friendliness, warmth, femininity, etc.
On the negative: the touts. He also said that the old city could be kept better, that the beaches were not that great, etc.
But just the pleasure of having easy sex with great looking girls compensates for all that. Does it not???
By the way, I happen to know the Don personally, and I will confirm that he does not discriminate among shape or size. If it is alive and wears a skirt, itīs game! :-)
Now, I am considering going to Cartagena myself...
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From my personal experiences with the Dashing one, I can assure you all that he is no Racist. Don hates everybody equally !
B69
How you doing buddy ? I would love to see the photos your friend took of the "non pros" to see if I can recognize any of their faces from LDV.
In my opinion touts don't follow the tourists to CTG but they exist merely because tourists are there. If you ask me, the vast majority of touts probably don't even own the inventory of junk they are peddling and instead , for a small commission of what they sell, they are acting as a roving pedestrian extension for the few wealthy storeowners or junk suppliers in CTG. I enjoyed Cali much more where the malls remained stationary rather than chasing you around the city.
Later.
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Dashing Don,
My bad for assuming, no hard feeling I hope!
Board, sincere thanks for correcting me!
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LAST POST from me on the subject of touts in CTG:
First, thanks to those who PM'd me with support.
Second: Touts have been a WELLKNOWN issue in tourist parts of CTG FOR AGES, so Don's critique that I should have warned others about the problem misses the mark IMHO. There were touts LONG BEFORE I EVER SET FOOT IN CTG, and their presence is WIDELY DISCUSSED in travel books etc (in addition to on monger boards). Accordingly, I reject the suggestion that it is MY RESPONSIBILITY to warn him (or anybody else).
Third: There are ways of minimizing the annoyance posed by the touts that are known to savvy travelers. They are more effective if you LOOK THE PART (i.e. you walk around with an expensive watch, polo shirt, jewelry etc it will be harder). Also, older folks will have more difficulty employing these methods and lack of Spanish proficiency will SEVERELY UNDERMINE tout avoidance tactics.
Fourth: CTG is NOT the only place on Earth to experience this phenomenon and MANY places with a large black population living in poverty do NOT have a tout problem. Also, places with NO BLACKS AT AQLL have touting problems. Jalan Legian (in Kuta Beach on Bali) has some of the worst touts (and the highest number) in the World, yet NONE are Black. They are Balinese and Javanese etc etc etc. While I have not been there, I hear India is MUCH WORSE yet ALL touts there are INDIAN (not Black).
The comparison to the French Riviera is absurd, of course, as there is not the juxstaposition of wealth upon poverty that exists in places with a tout problem.
FINALLY, those who wonder why those in the know are hesistant to share their knowledge on this forum should carefully read this thread. The sarcastic responses to my attempt to correct what I viewed as inaccuracies (and racial scapegoating) are a paradigm of why so few really knowledgeable people both to share their knowledge here.
PS Slick1: I agree with your post, but let's be careful with comparisoins to other cities please.
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Surfer,
If you wonder why you receive sarcastic responses maybe you
should check out the condescending air of superiority with which you deliver your "knowledge." You make frequent boasts about your superior knowledge, but seldom do anything other than criticize other people's posts without providing any specific information other than to tell us that you know better than everyone else. (Also I have to admit that I find your habit of capitalizing words for emphasis to be extremely ANNOYING.) If you do have some actual information, please share it, I am sure that we would all be grateful.
Regarding your claim that so many people refrain from sharing their knowledge on the WSG because essential the masses are ungrateful and unworthy--it begs the question of why they are members of this forum. Isn't the specific purpose of this forum to share information to help us all have a more rewarding and safer time pursuing our common hobby? Most of us post the limited knowledge that we have in hopes of helping each other out. I personally think that your elitest attitude sucks.
Regarding everyone jumping on Dashing Don for making an allegedly racist statement, he made an observation, nothing more. It was not a social commentary or anything else other than commenting on his own observation of what happened when he was in Cartagena. It is a sad fact, not a racist comment, that, in general, the black population in Colombia is on the bottom of the economic scale.
I hope that you will start to actually share some of your information. If you choose not to, and continue to simply point out your superior knowledge without sharing any actual facts, I will continue to consider you a pompous ass.
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ALL - FARC is out bombing the hell out of different areas of the country (Northwest Colombia (normally safer)). Many dead and many wounded.
This to celebrate the 40th anniversary of their start of the "war."
Please see the link below for the CNN story:
http://us.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/05/23/colombia.attack.ap/index.html
Good Luck and please be safe. Gringos are easy to spot and although that might help you with the ladies, it also makes you an easy target for the FARC.
$Bill
ps - if "Surfer" comes off as knowing all, that is because he does. You guys that have not had the honor of mongering with Surfer, do not know the level in which he operates. I thought I was good, until I saw how a true "professional" does it. Thanks to Surfer for all that he has given those of us that choose to read and take his advice.