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[QUOTE=Member #2041]
And BTW, Polk was a FAR better President than Bush. .[/QUOTE]
Polk was not popular. For that matter, Lincoln was not that popular either. A lot of people would have said Grant was way more important than Lincoln in the late 1860's. It's very difficult to say how people will judge Bush. If Obama cuts defense spending and the United States is attacked again, well, history twists and turns, doesn't it?
[QUOTE=Jelly Donut]Polk was not popular. For that matter, Lincoln was not that popular either. A lot of people would have said Grant was way more important than Lincoln in the late 1860's. It's very difficult to say how people will judge Bush. If Obama cuts defense spending and the United States is attacked again, well, history twists and turns, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]
The verdict on Bush is completely settled. He's a total fiasco in every respect. And defense spending had nothing to do with 9/11 - we were fully armed, but against the wrong enemy - again, that goes to judgment. Bush and Cheney came into office looking to overthrow Saddam to control Iraqi Oil, and it tainted everything that they did. They were warned by the outgoing Clinton admin that Al Qaida was going to be our main threat, and they failed to heed the warning.
Obama has yet to be elected, let alone govern.
Well we will find out what Obama can do, just don't expect some kind of miracle.
That would be plain foolish. A lot of people have some kind of insane idea that Obama is the Messiah.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]Well we will find out what Obama can do, just don't expect some kind of miracle.
That would be plain foolish. A lot of people have some kind of insane idea that Obama is the Messiah.[/QUOTE]
I don't expect miracles. What I DO expect from an Obama Presidency is simple competence, and a willingness to engage the rest of the world on terms that are not unilateral, but collaborative, as well as a basic change in philosophy regarding appropriate regulation of market mechanisms - the lack of which is responsible for the mortgage meltdown and the fact that nearly 50 million Americans cannot buy health insurance.
McCain might well deliver on the first of these, but he assuredly would not deliver on the other two.
Guys:
Apologize for asking probably stupid questions - since I'm NOT American and do not live there. On the other hand, One of the few "A's" I received whilst in College in the States was in American History as I truly wanted to learn what the good Ole U.S. of A is all about.
It is in this same vein that I ask these questions:
1. What happens if McCain gets elected i/o Obama? There IS the good ole South who MAY block Obama's bid based upon the "unspoken" word - race. If this happens, would America break out in a race war? At least little conflagarations here and there?
2. Do most people in the U.S. realize what Palin (who may indeed end up as President of the U.S. if McCain gets elected - and die) really is all about? She is a fundamentalist Assembly of God congregationalist - and the AG's or Holy Rollers truly believe that whatever they do is under the DIRECT command/instructions from God:
Corinthians 12:9-11 states that the "..........gift of the Lord cometh in many ways....to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines............/"
At frequent fundamentalist AG's church sessions, the phenomena of "Speaking in tongues" happens, followed by someone else in the congregation "interpreting" such message into English. Thus the AG's really believe that they've got God's direct command. At last that is what my impression is. Another prominent AG was John Ashcroft.
I've got more questions etc and here I want to again apologize if I am venturing into unwelcome waters and as such I'm wanting to first see if I'm gonna get replied to sensibly first or if I'm gonna be flamed.
Thank you all for your forebearance.
SEAJ
Joe,
1) No
2) Sarah Palin is very good at doing what grandfatherly white men tell her to do, whether it's God or the powers at the RNP.
To all,
I always like to think of W as Grant, a populist dupe, front man and alcoholic. Substitute the massive corruption of Reconstruction for Iraq.
1) No won't happen... Outside of banning of the election for some crisis, he's going to win despite about a 30% White (some Latino and Asian as well) Racist vote. The problem? 90%+ Black Vote, 90%+ Latino Vote and 30-35%+ White Vote - 300+ Electoral Votes = WINNER
2) About 65% of Americans KNOW what Palin is really about.... That's why there rumblings already in the McCain campaign and finger pointing to Palin as the reason why McCain is loosing...
Most people think W and company have brought the country to the brink. People look at their 401k's, know (or are) people who can't find a job or had their house foreclosed/foreclosing on. And regardless of how the Right tries to spin it most people blame the W administration. As perceived terrorist activity drove the result home for W in 2004 I think financial terror is going to drive it home for Obama, if not in a landslide only because he is a black man named Barack Obama.
I’m just wondering how the 100’s of millions he ‘owes’ is going to effect Barry and I hope he doesn’t become an affirmative action president or for that matter a sell out to any SIG/PAC.
Palin was a pretty off the wall choice, did they even vet her? I wonder if she was even on the over/under radar before she got picked? If their idea was to appeal to the Hillary vote why did they pick an anti Hillary. Are they taking pages out of the Democrats 'How to lose an election play book'? If either Gore or Kerry had picked a populist VP they probably would have gotten the nod. Of course I don't think Kerry (the DNC) thought Edwards was going to be the dud he was. Liberman was just DNC politics. Maybe in 2012 the DNC will run a black female gay jew who's parents are illegal immigrants.
[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]Guys:
Apologize for asking probably stupid questions - since I'm NOT American and do not live there. On the other hand, One of the few "A's" I received whilst in College in the States was in American History as I truly wanted to learn what the good Ole U.S. of A is all about.
It is in this same vein that I ask these questions:
1. What happens if McCain gets elected i/o Obama? There IS the good ole South who MAY block Obama's bid based upon the "unspoken" word - race. If this happens, would America break out in a race war? At least little conflagarations here and there?
2. Do most people in the U.S. realize what Palin (who may indeed end up as President of the U.S. if McCain gets elected - and die) really is all about? She is a fundamentalist Assembly of God congregationalist - and the AG's or Holy Rollers truly believe that whatever they do is under the DIRECT command/instructions from God:
Corinthians 12:9-11 states that the "..........gift of the Lord cometh in many ways....to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues.[All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines............/"
At frequent fundamentalist AG's church sessions, the phenomena of "Speaking in tongues" happens, followed by someone else in the congregation "interpreting" such message into English. Thus the AG's really believe that they've got God's direct command. At last that is what my impression is. Another prominent AG was John Ashcroft.
I've got more questions etc and here I want to again apologize if I am venturing into unwelcome waters and as such I'm wanting to first see if I'm gonna get replied to sensibly first or if I'm gonna be flamed.
Thank you all for your forebearance.
SEAJ[/QUOTE]
Dude...You should look America from the eyes of spiritualism than politics.
This little squibble here and there, is not what America is about...It is the most blessed nation on earth.
Even if Tomarrow ..Sarah Palin or John McCain or even his grand father or even Joe the plumber takes over as President....Its destiny has being charted long time back.
Its the founding fathers...who have taken all sides equally to see the worst of the worst if they become president will not effect what America is today.
People mis-calculate ..American economy and power is not based on Intelligence...You have enough "intellligent people in Asia and Russia" ..It is based upon "TRUST"
American society is very highly evolved...It has many faces...Republicans are as much required in America as does Democrats....America needs Sarah palin as much as Obama..both will show up at the right time.
Its not about about persons..but the vibration the whole idea that is America that will personify in an Individual.
Democrats hates republicans and vice versa..but they do not understand..the day..when either liberal and conservative way of living cease to co-exist in America that will be the END.
That day is way far off..America still has very good Karmic people around
Obama is going to be elected and he is going to be elected just as much by white people as by black/hispanics/asians.
The whole race issue needs to be examined more closely.
Obama's mom is white. But he's still black for everybody.
Lenny Kravitz is black for everybody. But his dad was a white Jew.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sy_Kravitz[/url]
People of all races need to wake up and the certainly need to work together to get America back on track.
I doubt Obama will lose, the chances of that happening are very slim. Its definitely going to be a quantum leap in American history when he becomes commander in chief, it will completely change people's perception of race. W was able to win 2004 because people still were concerned about terrorism and national security, and that was the biggest issue then, no one really considered an economic storm was headed towards America. Right now the big worry is the economy and not global geopolitics. If anything this is the beginning of new era where America begins to think about its own internal issues rather than policing the world outside. Most Americans do not want their country embroiled in foreign conflicts, and there will be a more isolationist stance in the coming years, either that or America will act more multilaterally, acting with other major powers. The Bush Doctrine of unilateral regime change will never happen again.
Lenny Kravitz is black with a white Jewish father but most people would see him as black. Most of his fans tend to be white. Most people of biracial backgrounds tend to associate themselves with the minority group. I rarely heard of anyone who is biracial who would consider themselves white.
Dr S, I like to keep it simple, Obama and Kravitz are men, they are black skinned, that makes them black men. Is it inherently bad to identify them by their skin color? Of course for the next four years Obama won't have to worry about that. Instead of people saying yeah, the black guy standing next to the white guy, they'll be saying yeah, the white guy standing next to the President of the United States. We are the fourth generation past where being a black man tossed you automatically into a caste. It's time to get over that, for both entitlement and discrimination. I think slowly but surely the US is doing that.
Then to take it even one step further and make it even simpler everyone regardless of location and skin color is basically the same. Well except for me, I'm just too damn handsome. :)
[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Most people think W and company have brought the country to the brink. People look at their 401k's, know (or are) people who can't find a job or had their house foreclosed/foreclosing on. And regardless of how the Right tries to spin it most people blame the W administration. As perceived terrorist activity drove the result home for W in 2004 I think financial terror is going to drive it home for Obama, if not in a landslide only because he is a black man named Barack Obama.
I’m just wondering how the 100’s of millions he ‘owes’ is going to effect Barry and I hope he doesn’t become an affirmative action president or for that matter a sell out to any SIG/PAC.
Palin was a pretty off the wall choice, did they even vet her? I wonder if she was even on the over/under radar before she got picked? If their idea was to appeal to the Hillary vote why did they pick an anti Hillary. Are they taking pages out of the Democrats 'How to lose an election play book'? If either Gore or Kerry had picked a populist VP they probably would have gotten the nod. Of course I don't think Kerry (the DNC) thought Edwards was going to be the dud he was. Liberman was just DNC politics. Maybe in 2012 the DNC will run a black female gay jew who's parents are illegal immigrants.[/QUOTE]
Here's the story of how they "Found" Palin -
[url]http://www.democracynow.org/2008/10/29/jane_mayer_on_the_insiders_how[/url]
[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Dr S, I like to keep it simple, Obama and Kravitz are men, they are black skinned, that makes them black men. Is it inherently bad to identify them by their skin color? Of course for the next four years Obama won't have to worry about that. Instead of people saying yeah, the black guy standing next to the white guy, they'll be saying yeah, the white guy standing next to the President of the United States. We are the fourth generation past where being a black man tossed you automatically into a caste. It's time to get over that, for both entitlement and discrimination. I think slowly but surely the US is doing that.
Then to take it even one step further and make it even simpler everyone regardless of location and skin color is basically the same. Well except for me, I'm just too damn handsome. :)[/QUOTE]
Well.... There are more negative things in the world that are black than are white. White is seen as "pure", "correct" "right"
Black -
You know - The 8 Ball, (Fear of a) Black Hat, Black Cats, Dark Vader - Black is seen as BAD, Negative, Ugly, Horrible.
Draw from what what you will, but it would be much better when your just a plain ole "American" like you are in Europe. I'm not a Black American in Europe, I'm just an American that happens to be Black and its not seen as a negative...
[QUOTE=SE Asia Joe]
1. What happens if McCain gets elected i/o Obama?
[/QUOTE]
At this point there would be some significant problems. With the election a matter of days away, there seems to be little question in the mainstream media that Obama will win the election. The media has annointed him in the great tradition of "Dewey Wins!". If McCain were to win, it would be by a very tight electoral margin.
If Obama does not it's almost certain there would be race riots along the same lines as, say, the stuff you saw with Rodney King in the 1990's. More widespread, however if you're thinking it would be something like Hutus vs. Tutsis - that's not going to happen. Obama would calm things down with an eye on 2012. Again, that's not the way the wind is blowing.
The reality is Obama is the man of the hour. The average American voter wants something that is going to relieve the immediate distress swirling around the credit crisis, slowing growth and restore confidence in some kind of forward-looking vision. McCain can't do that.
Obama as President goes to the heart of the American dream. He's the Jackie Robinson of politics; you can tell people are already suspending judgement and voting him into the Hall of Fame. He's got more teflon than Reagan.
Which is great. There are not a lot of countries where a guy who's dad is Kenyan can become President. It proves something about the United States that most every American wants to be true.