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[QUOTE=JustTK;2638765]Haha. . Obvious. Super effective vax in securing the people against the virus. You guys really are like flat earhers, or young earthers. What evidence do you need to see before you finally accept that you have been fed BS?
Portugal ... 88% fully vaxd... 3rd highest vax rate in the world... going thru a 3rd covid wave now..[/QUOTE]Bluster and insults are no substitute for substance. In fact when all you bring is bluster and insults it makes us all suspect that you have no argument.
Portugal? Given the season with increased indoor activities, at least a bit of a surge was expected, but that's all it is to date. As to cases it's considerably less than their January / February pre-vaccine surge. Most importantly the deaths scale has hardly moved, which points to the effectiveness of vaccines. Add this to the similar data profiles I recently demonstrated for France, Germany, Ireland, and we can add the UK, and looks like we have a pattern in this.
It takes merely ten minutes of research to see how full of shit you are, so why don't you give it up and go get laid? That's assuming you truly are in Colombia and not in your mum's basement in England. I more suspect the latter as you spend so much time here posting, whining about Covid and meat eaters and cowardly dissing the USA, and no one here has met you. If I were in Medellin hanging out in ISG Stupid Shit is the last thing I'd be doing.
Here's the data, deaths are so under control, as they typically are in Euro nations with high vaccination rates.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/[/URL]
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Well
[QUOTE=Nounce;2638842]So are you saying the record deaths in South Korea are from vaccinated people?[/QUOTE]This is directed at everyone, not just you. Your question though afforded a good opportunity to analyze Korea.
First we are talking about a country that had done extremely well up until recently, largely due to the mask wearing, social distancing and other restrictions that many here in Stupid Shit object to and insist have no positive effects. They've recorded 1627 deaths over the last two months and it would be interesting to know how many had received shots. They do have a high vaccination rate and currently still maintain a low case-fatality rate of 0. 8%, very much on the lower end of the scale when compared to the rest of the world.
[URL]https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality[/URL]
Waning immunity coupled with recent loosening of restrictions in a highly urbanized country where 50% of the population live in the capital all surely factor into the recent rise in deaths in South Korea. 80% of the cases were reported in Seoul. Most of the elderly started their shots back in February and March. Though cherry picking South Korea while ignoring the many Euro nations with high vaccination rates and stable death stats is disingenuous at best and betrays an agenda.
"The prime minister went on to urge the elderly to get booster shots, noting that people aged 60 and above accounted for 35 percent of infections and 84 percent of severe cases."
[URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/12/8/record-covid-cases-in-s-korea-as-immunity-wanes-among-elderly[/URL]
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/south-korea/[/URL]
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2638795]And then you have the insane story of the day: Twitter, which dubs itself the arbiter of medical misinformation through its constellation of conflicted 'fact-checkers,' will start imposing penalties on users who claim that vaccinated people can spread Covid-19. Maybe JJBee started this one up?[/QUOTE]I am pretty sure he did. Adding to the list 1 more vaccinated friend that has gotten covid versus 0 unvaccinated friends that have gotten covid. Let Jj tell it she is probably lying though. And if she really does have it, then she got it from an unvaccinated person.
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[QUOTE=Huacho;2638715]So, you fucking moron, in a double blind study, the researchers are unaware of the subjects' status because the research subjects were selected independently. Independent selection of the subjects is one part of the "double" blind process, meaning random selection from a given target population. Survey the target population and determine it is X% vegan and why% not.
Set up sample pools of vegans and non vegans. Use a statistically appropriate randomized (single blind) sample size with a finite population correction factor from each of the two pools. Then the second part of the double blind process (get it? [B]Second[/B] part? Double blind?) is that the people performing the research and analysis must not know whether the subjects are vegan or not.
It's like you want to set up a fucking moron contest but assure in advance you'll win. That's not a double blind test either but you have a good shot at winning.[/QUOTE]"random selection from a given target population".
No need to go deeper huacho. You confirmed it there. So you agree that they target vegans. They do it by CHOOSING vegans for the target population. You think anyone would set up a study on for example Muslims without first confirming that their population included Muslims? They wouldn't get very far in an analysis of cerebral palsy if there target group didn't have any sufferers. Of course they know they are vegans. But they would mix them up before they assign them to the different groups. So I stand very comfortably with my previous statement. You fkn moron.
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[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2638790]If I wanted to point out the flaws in veganism, I would say that by killing and eating a wild bear, I am actually saving the hundreds of other animals the bear would eat.
[/QUOTE]There is a lot to say about your comments. The first being that you are not finding a flaw in veganism at all here. You are highlighting the main diffference between deontology and utilitarianism. It would be a long and no doubt interesting debate that perhaps we should have over a beer or six. Hehe. No doubt Jpaedo would have a definitive answer for us in 3 paragraphs, after all his mind is infinitely more powerful than all the great philosophers that have trod this earth over the centuries before us.
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[QUOTE=Nounce;2638842]So are you saying the record deaths in South Korea are from vaccinated people?[/QUOTE]South Korea is an interestinf case isn't it? Never went in to lockdown yet has one of the lowest death rates among developed countries. Even now, its deaths are spiking but only from a very low historic basic level.
It's difficult to say with any certainty why deaths are spiking now bcos there are many potential contributory factors. Omicron and other variants, low natural immunity, changes to pandemic laws and attitudes. But some scientists in Korea blame it on the waning effectiveness of the vax. South Korea is amont the top 10 most vaxd countries.
So one thing is clear. The vax is NOT doing its job. One could counter that deaths would be even higher without the vax and no doubt that is true too. But they are not effective in preventing spread and eliminating the virus. Which was the initial objective of the virus. Now people are having the change their thinking and pretend the purpose of the vax is like a health booster shot. BUt then that line of thinking destroys the mandate movement bcos it can never achieve its objective.
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/11/17/south-korea-covid-patients/[/URL]
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[QUOTE=JustTK;2638925]...So one thing is clear. The vax is NOT doing its job...[/QUOTE]1) The mRNA vaccines are best and most cleverly designed in history. They are much better targeted and more effective than any of the successful vaccines in history, including measles, smallpox, HPV.
2) The vaccine only is effective if you take it. The only problem has been the anti vaccine propaganda and resistance driven by the know nothing party. If there were 100% vaccination rate, this disease would disappear. Unfortunately, the idiot minority has allowed it to become endemic.
3) There is false propaganda / ideology of individual responsibility, individual protection, and individual choice. Here's a better model of humanity: the earth is a culture plate covered with a thin biological film -- we are like bacteria. The idea that some part of the culture can be innoculated against an organism is false -- we have to innoculate the entire population. We can't leave pockets of the disease on the culture plate to survive and mutate.
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[QUOTE=JustTK;2638980]You might cosnider it fine in your own personal situation, but coming from a developing country, you can not expect the same level of competence.
The world accepts card based evidence for all other vaxxes. I expect they will continue with this one, especially since the data will need to be updated every 6 months per person.[/QUOTE]Exactly. Imagine the resources it would take to verify somebody's vaccination. In my country it is just a piece of paper not even saying where the person received the vaccination. No airport, grocery store, disco, etc in their right mind is going to have workers dedicated to making phone calls verifying the vaccinations of thousands of people standing in line in front of them. And the company they call to verify it? They as well would not pay people to man phones to receive the calls to verify if John Smith got a vacination at that particular drug store on such and such date. And what about the pop up places that people received vaccinations? Those have disappeared.
Same as the card that I received for my yellow fever vaccination, no country I enter is going out of the way to ensure the card is not fake. The only people that would be caught on this is those with shotty work like the chick that spelled the name of the vaccine wrong. Otherwise there is no way in telling that your card is authentic from actually getting the shot and another person's is not. Of course they have to publish stories like that and put fear in people as a deterrent.
Here is a picture from immigration in Brazil a couple of weeks ago. It took 2 and a half hours to get through. Now imagine if they had to call all over the world to verify a vaccination card of all these people from 300 different countries. That would take days and an amount of money that nobody is trying to spend on bullshit as such. For the foreseeable future people that are savvy enough to get around the "rules" will enjoy the same benefits as people that follow everything to the letter.
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Brilllant Post
[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2638992]1) The mRNA vaccines are best and most cleverly designed in history. They are much better targeted and more effective than any of the successful vaccines in history, including measles, smallpox, HPV.
2) The vaccine only is effective if you take it. The only problem has been the anti vaccine propaganda and resistance driven by the know nothing party. If there were 100% vaccination rate, this disease would disappear. Unfortunately, the idiot minority has allowed it to become endemic.
3) There is false propaganda / ideology of individual responsibility, individual protection, and individual choice. Here's a better model of humanity: the earth is a culture plate covered with a thin biological film -- we are like bacteria. The idea that some part of the culture can be innoculated against an organism is false -- we have to innoculate the entire population. We can't leave pockets of the disease on the culture plate to survive and mutate.[/QUOTE]You should give what passes for your brain to science when you are declared clinically dead. I know a PhD Maths genius who, aged 2, figured out there were minus numbers when he say negative temperatures displayed on the TV, You would show some people have negative IQs.
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Feeding the trolls
Yeh the trolls got to eat and when they get fed we have no one to blame but ourselves.
Some trolls have no useful life and use this forum to agitate and bait others to argue minute details.
Are they coked up on something? Can one be born a troll or is this learned behavior?
Many trolls seem bipolar, as in something is great one day then terrible the next. How do you get a troll to take his medication?
Then you got the troll followers that take every troll posting as gospel. "Troll sheep" That's a whole different can of dog food.
Trolls. Can't shoot 'them and can't kick 'them off a public sidewalk.
I prefer to ignore them and they eventually go back to trolling in forums from whence they came.
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[QUOTE=MrEnternational;2639000]Exactly. Imagine the resources it would take to verify somebody's vaccination. In my country it is just a piece of paper not even saying where the person received the vaccination. No airport, grocery store, disco, etc in their right mind is going to have workers dedicated to making phone calls verifying the vaccinations of thousands of people standing in line in front of them. And the company they call to verify it? They as well would not pay people to man phones to receive the calls to verify if John Smith got a vacination at that particular drug store on such and such date. And what about the pop up places that people received vaccinations? Those have disappeared. [/QUOTE]You're probably right. It is the fear of getting caught forging government documents that deters most people. It is a pretty serious crime in most places. I imagine if you got caught in Colombia entering illegally using fake documents you might be subject to some pretty serious down time. They really can't scrutinize you too fully yet but it will come I suppose- it will be a necessary part of staying open. I sure think someone is going to check your bona fides if you end up in the health care system with COVID. Anyway, lyin' slimeballs going to lie, what you going to do.
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[QUOTE=Surfer500;2638952]Apparently it's a felony in the USA to forge a vax card. I'm from California and they have a registry like most other states, so verification at least in Country is easy if actually required. Yet, it's a total joke for International travel without a worldwide verification system in place. No different than for the Yellow Fever shot issued by WHO.
It's just a matter of time until something is put in place. So for the time being, and I know guys that have done it, is they print up a vax card, insert the data required, and they are good to go at least for those from the USA.
A total joke for the time being.[/QUOTE]It is easy to fake a card or a printed up vax certificate. But the current ones we will be required to have are much harder to fake, since the QR can be scanned and if it does not correspond to the provincial database it is fake. That will work well within a province here, or perhaps in the country, but outside the country I doubt if anyone will have access to the provincial database to verify.
But, if countries agree perhaps an international version could be done.
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[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2638992]1) The mRNA vaccines are best and most cleverly designed in history. They are much better targeted and more effective than any of the successful vaccines in history, including measles, smallpox, HPV.
2) The vaccine only is effective if you take it. The only problem has been the anti vaccine propaganda and resistance driven by the know nothing party. If there were 100% vaccination rate, this disease would disappear. Unfortunately, the idiot minority has allowed it to become endemic.
3) There is false propaganda / ideology of individual responsibility, individual protection, and individual choice. Here's a better model of humanity: the earth is a culture plate covered with a thin biological film -- we are like bacteria. The idea that some part of the culture can be innoculated against an organism is false -- we have to innoculate the entire population. We can't leave pockets of the disease on the culture plate to survive and mutate.[/QUOTE]I find these really bizarre claims John.
1. You might be impressed by the vaxes, so in your opinion they are the best. I think a vax that wiped out a virus entirely (almost) such as the polio vax would get a higher rating than a vax that only lasts for 4 months.
2. I agree that a vax can only be effective if taken. BUt claiming that the virus would disappear if 100% wer vaxed is pure fantasy and propaganda. The virus was always going to be endemic. It has nothing tlo do with the "idiot minority". There are billions of people around the world that have no access to a vax. Are they part of the idiot minority? I beleive the idiots are the ones that think thought one could wipe out a virus like COVID, and the ones that decided to only give vaxes to people from tier 1 and tier 2 countries.
3. Agree with 3 entirely.
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[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2638992] 1) The mRNA vaccines are best and most cleverly designed in history. They are much better targeted and more effective than any of the successful vaccines in history, including measles, smallpox, HPV.[/QUOTE]Sorry, John, that is just not true. [URL]https://peckford42.wordpress.com/2021/08/25/10-reasons-why-the-fda-approval-for-pfizer-jab-isnt-about-health-but-about-forcing-people-to-take-the-shot/[/URL].
It's a huge problem that Peter Doshi, a senior editor at the BMJ calls the "elephant named waning immunity. " he cited Israel's Ministry of Health from early July showing Pfizer's vaccine was just 65% effective, which late July had dwindled to just 39% where Delta is the dominant strain. Apparently the downward trend is continuing. Considering that the FDA's own expectation is of "at least 50%" efficacy for any approvable vaccine. In terms of the vaccine "working," the FDA has violated its own low standards to fast-track approval for this vaccine and they haven't told us why.
[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2638992] 2) The vaccine only is effective if you take it. The only problem has been the anti vaccine propaganda and resistance driven by the know nothing party. If there were 100% vaccination rate, this disease would disappear. Unfortunately, the idiot minority has allowed it to become endemic.[/QUOTE]The fact is, Pfizer's clinical trials don't end until May 2023. FDA-approval usually requires letting clinical trials run their course but granting an emergency use authorization (EUA) the sort of thing that allows doctors to try experimental drugs on a patient because he is dying anyway is a different game altogether. And Pfizer's EUA extends to 12-year-olds whose odds of dying from Covid are significantly less than getting hit by lightning.
Just today, As of Dec. 16,1,700 cases of TTS following administration of J&J's vaccine were reported to VAERS, according to an Epoch Times review of the database. There were also 1,429 reports of thrombosis and 265 reports of thrombocytopenia. Altogether, the conditions were said to have resulted in 89 deaths.
So you have an injection with questionable efficacy that is approved only for emergencies and has horrible side effects and the FDA is not going to release safety data on the vaccine for 75 years? The question is not why some Republicans are scared of the vaccine. It is: why aren't you Democrats?
[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2638992]3) There is false propaganda / ideology of individual responsibility, individual protection, and individual choice. Here's a better model of humanity: the earth is a culture plate covered with a thin biological film -- we are like bacteria. The idea that some part of the culture can be innoculated against an organism is false -- we have to innoculate the entire population. We can't leave pockets of the disease on the culture plate to survive and mutate.[/QUOTE]The elderly have been inoculated. 99% of those 64 to 75 have been inoculated and 97% over age 85. And you cannot do 100% inoculation because the virus has crossed species. Come on, man!
And 2017, Sanofi Pasteur was forced to yank its new Dengvaxia vaccine off the market after it killed several hundred children by making them experience a worse version of dengue fever than if they'the never been vaccinated at all. The Dengvaxia fiasco led to dozens of public health figures being indicted for "reckless imprudence resulting in homicide. " Do you think that can't happen again?
And if your side is so confident why the constant banning of things? Joe Rogan talks about the profits of vaccine companies, a doctor comes on and tells the truth that the vaccine is EUA, and says that the risk and benefit presented on all other treatments is being turned to the side with this vaccine. I can see why Pfizer wants this banned, but youtube? How much are they in Pfizer's pocket?
Furthermore, if you look at ivermectin versus the vaccine for prophylaxis, it is not even close. Ivermectin wins in a landslide. So why is no one talking about that or monoclonal antibodies? Joe Rogan does a series of treatments and gets better in a day and instead of figuring out why, people say they wish he died and that he took a "horse dewormer."
Is the goal of your party saving lives or making Pfizer its $36 billion?
That is a pretty good gig if you can get it. Taxpayers pay for the research, you have immunity from lawsuits, mandates that require your product, and you do not have to show safety data.
Here is a link to the latest Rogan video, the one youtube banned. [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/youtube-censors-bombshell-joe-rogan-interview-cardiologist-peter-mccullough[/URL].
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[QUOTE=JustTK;2639040]I find these really bizarre claims John...
[/QUOTE]The original Salk / Sabin vaccines were about 60-70% effective against PV-1. The newer polio vaccines are more effective (maybe 90% effective against the later variants. Polio was eradicated by this comparatively ineffective vaccine, but mostly through heroic public health effort. Smallpox vaccine was highly effective, but had a relatively high rate of serious side effects.
One of the big problems with the continuing effectivity of SARS CoV-2 vaccines is the high mutation rate of the virus. The mutation rate of RNA viruses is much higher than DNA viruses. The mRNA vaccines have a much higher effectivity than earlier vaccines made with "dead" or attenuated viruses and which were in no way specifically targeted.
Another problem is transmission rate. Polio was transmitted by oral intake of infected human shit (why they closed swimmng pools).