Bad sex, clubs and the overnight bait and switch
Cruiser D - I can vouch for bad sex in Ukraine too, including when the girl was trying her best. More than once now I think about it, as its far more annoying than bad sex in London! I've also experienced the overnight bait and switch, when I've gone to bed drunk with someone stunning and woken up with a hangover and a dog - not sure that's unique to Ukraine though.
Doctor S - Like you I lament the passing of 111, especially for popcorn night. As far as I can tell early week options are really poor at the moment, I haven't found a club I'd reccomend on either Monday or Tuesday over my last few visits. 112 is not quite as debaunched as 111 (less groups of girls out together just out for a laugh - more couples and groups of friends), but I've been several times on Friday and Saturday and really rate it - once it gets full it's got a good "pit" atmosphere and stays busy until at least 3-4am.
To be honest IMHO Arena is probably the best club option early week, and whilst attitude of the girls there isn't as stuck up as over the weekend, I still find their initial attitude a little over-putting (although easier to overcome). To be honest I've quite warmed to Arena in recent visits, especially for early week visits. If it's a bust, I can just go and play poker which keeps me happy.
The other option I've resorted too recently is 44 - the bands that play are awful, but its usually quite busy and I've had fair success in getting numbers for dates later in the week. I actually really like the place just as a bar. I also quite like one of Eric's other places, Orekh - again, not a pro-place at all, but like all other bars charm and a bit of confidence (and a slightly thick skin) can reap rewards later in the week if not that night. Not really found a bar that I like as much as Dino's (I think that was it's name), so if anyone has any normal bar reccomendations, I'm all ears.
The Shooters claim of actively discouraging a pro-scene may be true, but I'm fairly dubious about the semi-pro scene not existing there (it does!). Regardless, I've always liked the place, but I would only rate is as worth going to from Wednesday onwards - I personally rate it as the best option on Thursday in Kiev (maybe along with Orangeria).
112 is interesting on a Thursday, although this is based on a sample of one evening. It's free entry and free drinks before 11pm for girls and guys aren't allowed in until after 11pm. A couple of Kiev visits ago I was cutting through the Arena complex around 11.30pm when two gorgeous creatures stumbled out absolutely shit-faced (as in they stumbled out and threw up everywhere). Being a man of absolutely no moral fibre in the slightest I thought - drunken beautiful women.... I'm there. Inside was one of the more bizarre scenes - drunken women abound but it was like the weekly meeting of Kiev's uglier women! Either great bodies and hideous faces, lovely faces and hideous bodies or, that rare Kiev beast, complete Kiev fuglies. Once I had adjusted to the bizarre scene I actually stayed and had a great night - a lot of fun and no attitude from the girls. I went home with a good looking freebie whose main attraction was that she was around incredibly short (4ft 4/5 ish!)...as I said, I'm not expecting to win the Roberto Clemente humanitarian of the year award for my morality.....
....and bizarrely, it was during that very night that my very short good looking freebie was switched for her ugly sister that I woke up with.
Go West, HELL... GO SOUTH!
snowy... somehow I think you and doc are talking about two different levels of "BAD SEX"!
Unfortunately, too many girls who work for a long time become jaded and the real find is a gem who has only been in the biz a short time... IMHO, that is when you have the best chance to get a girl who will become the ultimate GFE!
As I have discovered in the last few months, there are many many girls in Ukraine and probably Russia as well who will gladly perform IF they are presented with the opportunity.
When I first moved to ODS, I was in the Moscow mode... Clubs, i.e. NF, CF, tochkas, strip clubs, etc. and other than the occasional newbie from CF or a tochka, it was becoming very bad to be a monger... Covered BJ, clock watching, no passion, few orgasms... even fake ones!
What I have discovered is a new environment in ODS... True, the "pros" are here who demand exactly the same as in Moscow, but for about 1/2 to 1/3 the price, BUT more importantly, there is a HUGE pool of new talent who will jump at the opportunity to make a few grivna if it doesn't mean she has to walk the street or stand around obviously in a club. The last week, I have been fortunate to share my bed with several girls who enjoyed being here, PLUS, they brought a friend for my friend... Time? between 1 and 2 hours, but could have been longer if we desired... Cost? 150 grivna... $30.
Now before I build up your expectations, I must say that these girls are not available on the street, web, clubs and, no, I will not give out their names or numbers. BUT, there are hundreds of similar girls here who will gladly spend their time with you for $50 to $100 without the hassles and attitude I experienced the last few months in Moscow and who will gladly come back the next night if you want to see them...
So, IMHO, Kiev has rapidly advanced to near Moscow prices and near Moscow attitude... which is too bad because I never had the opportunity to experience that beautiful city. HOWEVER, I think I may have gotten lucky because from Moscow I skipped over the next city in line, Kiev, and moved straight to Odessa which is less developed and is still in it's enfancy compared to Moscow and Kiev, but that means that costs are less for everything, food, beer, accommodations and... girls! :)
So, I say don't "Go West"... "GO SOUTH"!!!!
I'll be here waiting!
Planning Kyiv trip in Feb and March
I plan to be in Kyiv for a week in Feb and again in March.
Love to hook up with fellow mongers. PM me if you plan to be there too.
Which clubs are hot for semi-pro action?
Last summer I visited Arena and 112. Caribean was great as always-full most nights
I enjoyed club 44 -just a regular pub/bar thorugh
Any new clubs in Kyiv?
Girl crazy: the monger's lament
Snowy:
I hear you on the doom of Kiev as a monger's and playboy's paradise but also agree that we can still function and succeed there with the application of superior cultural understanding, language skills and understanding of what makes the Slavic girl tick.
As an example, many people are writing off Moscow as a dyev hunting ground, but I am getting as much poon as ever there and quite frankly, the quality of girl I am getting is improving with my skills. There is no reason why others in a similar position cant do the same or better and no reason why Kiev must be different than Moscow in that sense, except for the fact that Kiev has more overt sex tourists than Moscow.
Nonetheless, weekend and holiday mongers will never tap more than 10% of Kiev's available dyevki as they will hit the same prominent nightspots again in again in a swarthy assault on both the patience of the girls, the reputation of the clubs and the olfactory senses of all. They will effectively ruin these easy-access type clubs for all and if trend holds, the quality of girl going to these clubs will steadily decline. Weekend and holiday mongers generally lack the knowledge and courage to think outside of the box, so it does leave plenty of playing ground for the more skilled and informed. Who dares wins.
Odessa:
Odessa is definitely worth a trip in the spring or summer but I feel it necessary to add a degree of caution to the euphoria of those believing that Odessa is a free all you can eat dyev orgy in terms of freebies.
Ca_T sounds like he is onto something really great regarding p4p semi-pro and pro action, but the freebie scene is in fact already very developed in a negative way, at least in terms of clubs and discos, especially in the summer. Not as bad as Riga or Prague, but Odessa is not a secret location by any means.
Odessa's club and dating scene already suffers to a significant degree from summer holiday invaders from Europe, particularly Italian sex tourists and spend-happy aging Italian girl sponsors (no offense Italian friends) and naive Anglo bride hunters (no offense American and English compatriots), who have already clued in the local dyevs that foreign guys mean $$$ and gifts.
That said, I'll also follow my credo borrowed from the SAS... who dares wins... and sacrifice my body and patience threshold by throwing myself again into the fray and hitting those Odessan beaches again in the summer. I'll also make sure to go early in the season before the Italians have their holidays and while the girls have yet to realize their inflationary market value and rediscover those morals they misplaced...
...in any case, if going to Odessa to chase freebies, bring your best game because playing games is exactly what the dyevs are doing.
Always date two girls at once. That way if there is a conversation you don't have to
I owe all my luck and mojo in the current p4p scene to Traveling Male. I think he subscribes to every questionable rag in Kiev and works the internet like a CIA data mining team. He went from, 'gee, I wish I could speak Russian' in May to being quite the operator now. This summer when you see someone cruising down Khreshatyck in a '76 Pink ElDorado drop top with three girls it will be TM. Just remember to wave and he might give you a toot.
Of course things are changing in the p4p scene. Sexpats will continue to drive the price of the hot jaded Kiev girls up while the more experience will be stuck with the equally hot girls coming in from the other cities in Ukraine. Eventually McAmerica will take over (like everywhere else on this planet) but it will be a while in coming. Kiev is 'ok' but the rest of the country is a mess. But don't worry I heard CAT is already scouting places in Siberia. ;)
As far as the non p4p scene goes, who and what you are will never change. Base on that and a lil bit of luck (good or bad) gives you your results in that scene.
Russian girls really do deserve the homage given to them in that video. These hot Slav southern sisters seem to be the driving force behind the Kiev economy. Now that is a renewable natural resource I can live with...I'd pass on the .mp3, but I'll be looking for the .mpg when I get back to my big pipe at home.
It's going to be -32c tonight. Time for me to find a hot body or two to keep me warm. Everyone have a good night.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]CruiserD:
Glad to hear your positive report on Kiev as a playboy destination... I like it that way.... :) Say hi to TravMale from me.
I agree with Snowy however that things are changing and will change for the worse middle-term... I suggest that those that can, get what they can while the going's good.... like you are doing right now.
As for Kiev and p4p, that's never been my forte.... especially after the recent price hikes.
I've seen the Sasha Dith video and have the entertaining but silly and ultimately stupid mp3... I prefer the real thing... and cycling through the names in my sleep... Katya, Oksana, Lena... like counting sheep, except it doesnt induce sleep...[/QUOTE]