I am the client...they only get "me" once in a blue moon.
i really saw no contradiction in your post, and no offense taken.
frankly, you failed to comment on the gyst of my thesis. you merely critiqued my choices. that is not really a contradiction of my conclusions, such as the differences between the passive styles of the girls in the low end bars versus the aggressive, mercenary style of the girls in the medium and high end bars.
this is a very on-point analysis of my opinion about what differentiates the low end bar girl potential from the medium level/high end bar girl potential.
you see, i prefer working the girls in the low end bars because they don't have well honed, demonstrative personalities like the girls in the medium and high end bars. they don't practice extracting money from you for drinks...not even on privados. the low end bar girls just stand there on stage, using very little else to entice patrons other than appearance.
as a consequence, some of the girls in the low end bars have little obvious "charm." but, the ones that actually do have charm, which is most of them, are great bar fines. more of the low end girls possess "charm" than is usually othewise discernable without interviewing them extensively in the privados, or getting to know them over time. and, if they are not particularly outgoing initially, if you get to know them over time, as friends, they develop an attraction and willingness to go on salida. they are every bit as good as any girl from the medium/high end bars, but it requires some effort bringing them out of their shells.
if you take a low end girl into the privados, and you don't talk to her, but you merely grope, fondle, and molest her, you will never really know the extent to which she might actually have some gfe charm and allure for gfe salida potential. many guys cut directly to the chase, and fail to explore this potential. they get in the privados and they are so absorbed in the physical stimulus that they totally overlook the more important verbal interviewing process.
i know you are not guilty of that carlos...but, many guys fail to recognize that potential because they are stuck on strictly the "physical" potential within the privados, and the girls, due to their lack of experience with respect to charm skills, play right into this dynamic, making it seem that they, the low end bar girls, lack personality in comparison to their peers in the medium and high end places.
the girls just grind away and the guys don't give a shit about knowing them for any other potential. so, the girls go along every night of the week, gaining very little experience at using their charm to entice guys into selecting them for salida.
besides, salidas are rare in monterrey. the girls do not typically go on salida much. the clientelle in the low end bars don't want salidas, and more than likely, they generally can't afford them. the "rat pack" is the exception. and, that is why we enjoy a certain level of infamy with the girls in the low end bars.
plus, with the low end girls, there is a definite "status" that is apparently attained by their being selected to go on salida. it elevates them within the social order of the bar. in addition, there is a degree of possessiveness established as well. the girls in the low end bars actually "imprint" on us.
they regard us individually as "theirs," and i believe they place a greater value on our patronage than what is sometimes given us by the medium/high end girls. it is because our patronage, in the form of salidas, involves a psychological boost to their egos, and a subsequent elevated status achieved within the bar. our patronage demonstrates to their peers that they are salida material for the rich gringos, and successful mexicanos, even when they are shared three and four at a time such as in the case of the harem established by wastedg.
carlos, you are always talking about the effects of the class structure within mexico. we are their "fair haired boys." and, i believe, patronizing the low end girls is an ultimately superior experience to bar fining them from the medium/high end places for that reason. i have always generally had better salidas from the girls working in the low end bars than from the medium and high end bars.
we, the "rat pack" of monterrey do otherwise compared to the hords of low end patrons, and that is why we have hords of girls that we regularly bar fine out of the low end bars. our focus is different than the average patron in the low end bars.
with the girls having a lack of "experience" in practicing charm on the hords of low end patrons," there exists an opportunity for really decent gfe salida action, usually at a cheaper cost, if you can turn the tables and charm them, or develop a familiarity that puts them at ease at the prospect of leaving the bar with you. that is the basis of my conclusions.
as for my "only getting a girl once in a blue moon," that is not true. remember, i bar fined a new girl almost nightly over the last couple of years, and when things went really well, when they all decided to actually show up, sometimes i would find myself entertaining as many as two or three a day. it's only been recently that i decided to patronize one girl a couple nights a week. it has been a conscious "decison" on my part to do so, and not a lack of potential opportunity.
plus, since we are engaged in discussing the proper frame of mind, with respect to your comment, "only in a blue moon," i remind you that if i am to have the correct mental state, and the "proper" approach according to carlos, it is the other way around...
"they" are the ones that are not getting me...they are the ones that are only fortunate enough to see "me" once in a blue moon :-) remember, i am the client, and they are the providers. in that respect, i suppose my standards are very high.
[quote=carlos perez]iam going to contradict usb here.[/quote]
Those pros do NOT get it...
Carlos says..."Am trying to make USB understand that he is dealing with hookers, girls that can be friendly one day and stab you in the back the next."
I agree, except to also add that they are "women" first, and hookers second. What interests me, the game that I find the most stimulating, is to transcend the stereotypical label of being their client, and to be something more to them than just a paycheck...That is the true measure of GFE. I don't really know what that "something more" sometimes is, but when I find it, I know it without further contemplation, and so do they.
They are definitely hookers in their jobs, at least as we define them from a male perspective. But, they do not think so. They regard themselves as smart business women, entrepreneurs, and entertainers.
For example, my girl was recently with me in a pharmacy. The girl behind the counter spoke fluent English. My girl was visibly jealous when I told her that the girl was very smart, not only because she knew so much English, and how she spoke it so fluently, without accent, but because of the way she carried herself. The clerk behind the counter was a good girl, with brains, with pride, with proper manners and decorum. Plus, the girl was of white, European decent. A typical Mexican flaca morena believes that she can not compete on that level, so jealousy is the natural response. I understand what I am dealing with, and how I am using it to my advantage. But, because of the sociology of her Mexican upbringing, she feels threatened by the mere presence of a white skinned, educated, natural dish water blonde Mexicana...wonders never cease. I am more attracted to the flaca morena, but she is mired in the sociology of her ancestors.
My girl was quite jealous, but not angry. I recall that as she smiled at me she called me coquetto, just because I was conversing with the Mexican girl in English, and because I was impressed with the girl's apparent intellect. My bar girl replied to me in Spanish, "Yeah, but USB, who is smarter? Who is making more money, the girl working in the bar, or the girl working behind the counter?"
I had to acknowledge that my bar girl was certainly making more money. I did not want to hurt my girl's feelings, but there is more to it, more than she is able to comprehend as a consequence of her social position in life, and the limitations that dictate her place in the pecking order of Mexican society.
As for my personal opinion about which vocation is the smarter, I personally believe it is the girl that educated herself, and earns her living with more dignity that is the wiser. But, smarter and wiser are two different kinds of assessment. The bar girls generally lack wisdom, but most of them are dangerously smart. I still have to explain the difference to my bar girl, the difference between wisdom and intellegence. She has much to learn.
You see, I fully understand what I am dealing with when it comes to these "hookers." But, that doesn't make them any less precious to me as people. All bar girls, whether they are smart, or intellectually inferior, whether they lack wisdom, etc...are a different breed, a breed apart from girls of normal Mexican society. But, I still regard the ones that deliver the goods with sincere affection, and legitimate concern. They think they are doing the best they can regardless of the choices they make in life, even choices that are unknowningly made to their own detriment.
And...Carlos, we have both heard something lately coming from the bar girls that is uncharacteristic of the typical hooker of yester year.
The girls do not see themselves as hookers. They see themselves first as entertainers, even so far as to believe that as long as they screw you with a condom, it is a sufficient barrier to isolate them, not only in a biological sense, but also with respect to the emotional toll that such activity most certainly takes upon them.
I do not agree with their perspective, that the condom somehow legitimizes and protects them from what they do, but I am just articulating what so many of them are thinking of themselves these days.
It is a different world even compared to ten years ago. Many of the girls rationalize what they do, and so many of them do not see themselves as hookers. Remember the girls in the Prestige that said they are "so glad they are not one of them," meaning hookers? The new generation has a perspective we have not heard before.
Carlos further says..."Yes, the girls are not getting you, but right now you are now a familiar face, but they don't care cause you don't leave a mark in the places you visit. Even with the many times you've been here, they don't recall you above being the guy with the cookies. You are not unpredictable and they see you as a "no sell". Yes, you have high standards, but you have failed to communicate this. Business moves so fast to these girls that you havenīt made this clear to them."
They see me as a no sell because I am not buying what they have for sale. I want to be completely predictable. I want them to understand what it is I am buying, but most of them are too dense to figure it out, choosing instead to cast upon me their expectations for a "good time." They prefer to dictate to me. But, I am in total and complete control. I will simply dismiss them if they don't provide what I am looking for, even Cindy #1, Cindy #2, Angry Girl, whomever...
You see, it is not a matter of them respecting me...I am the one with the money. It is a matter of my respecting them as providers, which I do not.
Most of them are too lazy to understand what I am buying, and to DE-LIV-ER IT!
Most of them only choose to deliver what they believe their Mexican clients are satisfied with. I am not a Mexican client...I am a Norte Americano that has patronized hundreds of girls not only in Mexico, but throughout Asia and Central America. Why is it so acceptable in Mexico, as clients, that we always accept the very least from them, and why is it never about them providing a superior level of "GFE" performance? I am sounding more and more like Porker each day...very scary.
I will continue to interview them, and to enjoy them over a drink or two, and to hopefully find the needle in the haystack once in awhile. But, to actually bar fine some of these amateurs is a waste of my time. Obviously, I have to continue an extensive interviewing process to find the needles in the haystack. But, so many of them are such an ultimate disappointment to me that they never get beyond one or two drinks.
I have a different expectation for them than they are used to. The typical Mexicana performance is not generally what I seek, so I do not really care if they want me or not...because I don't want them if they choose to deliver their normal Mexicana brand of service.
Only the girls that provide what I am looking for are the ones that will get my money. It is up to them. If they don't produce, if they do not work for my attention, I am off to another venue, where I can easily obtain what I am so used to receiving for a fraction of the price, and without having to beg for it.
You see, I am very demanding. My present girlfriend understands what I am looking for, delivers it with her own level of personal pleasure and satisfaction as part of the mix, and she and I are both richer for it in all respects. It should be a win/win.
The typical hardened pros of Mexico do not get it. But, currently, my present girl is intelligent enough to understand what it is I want, and to provide it. Perhaps she provides it with a strong measure of sincerity, and perhaps she provides it because she is in-tune with what her job really is. Either way, it doesn't matter because she is running circles around all the others...NO contest.
[QUOTE=Carlos Perez]
Am trying to make USB understand that he is dealing with hookers, girls that can be friendly one day and stab you in the back the next.
"Stab you in the back" in the figurative sense, that is.
But please take note, cause it gives you an idea of how the girls act and react to customers....
USB says: "They" are the ones that are not getting me...They are the ones that are only fortunate enough to see "me" once in a Blue Moon :-) Remember, I am the client, and they are the providers. In that respect, I suppose my standards are very high."
I say: Yes, yes, but no. Yes, the girls are not getting you, but right now you are now a familiar face, but they don't care cause you don't leave a mark in the places you visit. Even with the many times you've been here, they don't recall you above being the guy with the cooies. You are not unpredictable and they see you as a "no sell".
Yes, you have high standars, but you have failed to communicate this. Business moves so fast to these girls that you havenīt made this clear to them.
This is very important: They don't respect you.
If they don't respect you, they do whatever they want with you and not the other way around as it should be.
In other words, the one with the high standards are the girls. Their standards include here, foolishly looking for young customers with money, which is a falacy.
We must make sure they understand that and also that they are still "trash", but the kind of "trash" we are willing to like...[/QUOTE]
My girl made the honor roll
My girl made the honor roll at Infinito High.
Line'em up. I think I'm coming down for a visit soon.
Wasted
Muy Intelligente Muchachas...
I knew you could not stay away...Returning 4/21-4/27 for me. But, one question, WastedG, you say your "girl," as in the singular form, as though one of them in particular is the subject of your desires. Don't you have and entire class to consider?
Are you referring to one in particular, or are you going to administer the final examines to the class as a whole.
I am bringing them their "final examines," just for the month that is...I will also bring their Fredericks of Hollywood Caps and Gowns...
CHEATERS!!! They are all teacher's pet, they are all making honor roll and graduating to the "Head" of their class regardless, verdad? :-)
[QUOTE=Wastedgman]My girl made the honor roll at Infinito High.
Line'em up. I think I'm coming down for a visit soon.
Wasted[/QUOTE]
I still love Monterrey...
i recently read a post on another site that harshly criticized tj. the post on the other site was written by a guy who formerly frequented tj. this guy took a recent trip to indonesia. according to his post, indonesia is the promised land, and tj really sucks.
i understand his comparisons with respect to price, and even possibly with respect to quality of experience when comparing indonesia to tj. but there are downsides to everything, the amount of travel time required, language barriers, health risks, cost of travel, etc...
i have never been to tj, so i don't have any direct experience to use for comparison. but, i can honestly say that upon hearing the many descriptions of tj, i don't think monterrey is in any way comparible to tj, except that the two are in mexico.
first, mexico is not comparable to some of the more notorious other venues with respect to price, and even with respect to general quality of experience. however, there are some things that are particularly convenient and seductive about monterrey, things that draw me back there, and things that sometimes cause me to wish i were in monterrey when i am elsewhere.
there are a lot of really hot girls in monterrey, much more than you will find in the border towns, and apparently many more than are available in tj. based on the descriptions of the quality of girls working in tj, monterrey sounds like it's far superior.
in addition, compared to most of the asian foreign venues, i have found the diversity of different looks to be much better in monterrey. the asian look is very much a cookie cutter type of thing, even to the point of outfits in the go go's being exactly the same between the girls...it's all about uniformity in asia. if you like diversity, monterrey offers a diversity of ethnic looks that you will not find in asia.
i have to admit that monterrey has a lot of very hot girls. based on the horror stories i've heard about tj, the girls are not nearly as mercenary in monterrey, and the opportunity for salidas with really hot girls in monterrey far surpassed what is ultimately available in tj, or in the border towns.
plus, i also think that the health system in monterrey, the one that requires the girls to be tested on a weekly basis, can not be ignored. the potential for disease in monterrey is significantly reduced compared to other venues. that isn't a license to be careless, but it does influence "my" comfort level. some foreign venues offer no protection whatsoever, and whether or not you contract something from the girls is a lottery that some of us just can not afford to risk.
if you like strip clubs, most of the foreign venues do not permit them. indonesia, for example, is a country where that kind of exhibition is totally prohibited. the pi and thailand primarily consist of go-go's where there is no nudity on stage. you have to leave it all to your imagination until you get them back to your room to verify your hunches.
monterrey mexico has got to be the absolute strip club capital of the world, bar none. other venues have decidedly different formats. so, that one factor, the huge number of strip clubs, if you like that sort of environment, can not be over-emphasized. it is world class, imho.
in addition, the clubs of monterrey play a decent range of music compared to the techno-clatter of the asian go-go's. i complain that the music is played too loudly in the clubs of monterrey, but i am otherwise relatively satisfied with their musical selections.
plus, if you monger in monterrey...
1. you are only three hours south of the us border, in a place where your cell phone works perfectly.
2. where you are able to also conduct business during normal business hours because there isn't a huge time zone difference, such as is the case in asia, 13 hours.
3. your high speed internet connection, where available, works well in monterrey compared to it crawling in some asian venues like indonesia and the pi.
4. the selection of western food in monterrey is widely varied, cheap, and easily obtainable. they even have a wide range of us based chains to choose from, chilis, bennigan's, applebees, etc...
5. the movies in the theatres are often spoken in english with spansh subtitles.
6. the taxis are very cheap in monterrey, and they are safe. to travel between the clubs downtown, it will not cost you over about 10-20 pesos ($1-$2us).
7. the danger of being criminally victimized while walking around downtown in monterrey, walking between the clubs, up to 10 blocks or more, at 3am, is very low. try that in downtown san jose, costa rica, near the blue marlin. i have never, in five years, felt threatened on the streets of monterrey.
8. there is a wide selection of hotels, all of varying quality, price, ammenities, many us chains, many good mexican chains...all depending on your preference to be close to the action versus you own preferred comfort level.
monterrey is not a mongering venue in the strictest sense, such as what you might expect if you were to travel to thailand or the pi for example. it is a very strong adult entertainment venue that has a satisfying, but slightly complicated, comparatively subdued, mongering experience available at relatively cheap prices, with outstanding quality, compared to anything available in the us.
so, to classify monterrey in the same category as asia, or even to classify it along with a place like tj, is probably not an accurate assessment because it can have its frustrations along with it's relatively high level quality advantages.
it is not set up soley for the purpose of mongering. as i said, it's more of an adult entertainment venue where mongering is just below the surface. monterrey mongering can be as easy or as difficult as you choose to make it. it is very easy to get laid, but not as easy as in some other venues to get gfe, and perhaps not as easy to achieve the exact experience you might otherwise easily seek and obtain were you in asia, colombia, costa rica, etc...
Re: I still love Monterrey...
i've been reading those posts too on said "another forum".
the opinion basicly is that in mexico the girls have no sanitary notions.
opposed to sea where the girls take a bath, brush their teeth before and after.
well, one thing is tj, where all the girls are mercenaries and the hard sought gfe is almost nil or hard to be found.
that is the opposite here and at any other city that is distant from the border towns.
girls are different, you get a better treatment form them and so on...
but back to those posts about sea.
the enfasis is "clean" and "sanitary".
"clean" and "sanitary" are an absolute contradiction when bb is the norm at sea.
that is the biggest joke of those posts.
i just don't get it: they complain that mexican girls are "dirty" but bb doesn't count...
good for them... let them go to sea and star digging their grave.
[quote=unospongebob]i recently read a post on another site that harshly criticized tj. the post on the other site was written by a guy who formerly frequented tj. this guy took a recent trip to indonesia. according to his post, indonesia is the promised land, and tj really sucks.
i understand his comparisons with respect to price, and even possibly with respect to quality of experience when comparing indonesia to tj. but there are downsides to everything, the amount of travel time required, language barriers, health risks, cost of travel, etc...
i have never been to tj, so i don't have any direct experience to use for comparison. but, i can honestly say that upon hearing the many descriptions of tj, i don't think monterrey is in any way comparible to tj, except that the two are in mexico.
first, mexico is not comparable to some of the more notorious other venues with respect to price, and even with respect to general quality of experience. however, there are some things that are particularly convenient and seductive about monterrey, things that draw me back there, and things that sometimes cause me to wish i were in monterrey when i am elsewhere.
there are a lot of really hot girls in monterrey, much more than you will find in the border towns, and apparently many more than are available in tj. based on the descriptions of the quality of girls working in tj, monterrey sounds like it's far superior.
in addition, compared to most of the asian foreign venues, i have found the diversity of different looks to be much better in monterrey. the asian look is very much a cookie cutter type of thing, even to the point of outfits in the go go's being exactly the same between the girls...it's all about uniformity in asia. if you like diversity, monterrey offers a diversity of ethnic looks that you will not find in asia.
i have to admit that monterrey has a lot of very hot girls. based on the horror stories i've heard about tj, the girls are not nearly as mercenary in monterrey, and the opportunity for salidas with really hot girls in monterrey far surpassed what is ultimately available in tj, or in the border towns.
plus, i also think that the health system in monterrey, the one that requires the girls to be tested on a weekly basis, can not be ignored. the potential for disease in monterrey is significantly reduced compared to other venues. that isn't a license to be careless, but it does influence "my" comfort level. some foreign venues offer no protection whatsoever, and whether or not you contract something from the girls is a lottery that some of us just can not afford to risk.
if you like strip clubs, most of the foreign venues do not permit them. indonesia, for example, is a country where that kind of exhibition is totally prohibited. the pi and thailand primarily consist of go-go's where there is no nudity on stage. you have to leave it all to your imagination until you get them back to your room to verify your hunches.
monterrey mexico has got to be the absolute strip club capital of the world, bar none. other venues have decidedly different formats. so, that one factor, the huge number of strip clubs, if you like that sort of environment, can not be over-emphasized. it is world class, imho.
in addition, the clubs of monterrey play a decent range of music compared to the techno-clatter of the asian go-go's. i complain that the music is played too loudly in the clubs of monterrey, but i am otherwise relatively satisfied with their musical selections.
plus, if you monger in monterrey...
1. you are only three hours south of the us border, in a place where your cell phone works perfectly.
2. where you are able to also conduct business during normal business hours because there isn't a huge time zone difference, such as is the case in asia, 13 hours.
3. your high speed internet connection, where available, works well in monterrey compared to it crawling in some asian venues like indonesia and the pi.
4. the selection of western food in monterrey is widely varied, cheap, and easily obtainable. they even have a wide range of us based chains to choose from, chilis, bennigan's, applebees, etc...
5. the movies in the theatres are often spoken in english with spansh subtitles.
6. the taxis are very cheap in monterrey, and they are safe. to travel between the clubs downtown, it will not cost you over about 10-20 pesos ($1-$2us).
7. the danger of being criminally victimized while walking around downtown in monterrey, walking between the clubs, up to 10 blocks or more, at 3am, is very low. try that in downtown san jose, costa rica, near the blue marlin. i have never, in five years, felt threatened on the streets of monterrey.
8. there is a wide selection of hotels, all of varying quality, price, ammenities, many us chains, many good mexican chains...all depending on your preference to be close to the action versus you own preferred comfort level.
monterrey is not a mongering venue in the strictest sense, such as what you might expect if you were to travel to thailand or the pi for example. it is a very strong mongering entertainment venue that has a satisfying, but slightly complicated mongering experience available.
so, to classify monterrey in the same category as asia, or even to classify it along with a place like tj, is probably not an accurate assessment because it can have its frustrations. it is not set up soley for the purpose of mongering, but it's more of an entertainment venue where mongering is just below the surface. monterrey can be as easy or as difficult as you choose to make it. it is very easy to get laid, but not as easy as in some other venues, and perhaps not as easy to achieve the exact experience you might otherwise easily seek and obtain were you in asia.[/quote]