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[QUOTE=MrHo;2442060]You are right. Let get back to sex topic after today then LOL.
I much prefer to talk about mongering than virus, which I can do with my private life, where as mongering, I cannot discuss in my private life.[/QUOTE]You don't tell to your relatives, or neighbors, or at work, where you spend your holidays? When I tell about my holidays, ski free riding or bicycle climbing, people say: You are so passionate, when You tell You have stars in eyes, like when I see a beauty, but they are rare.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2441987]More testing means more of the infected people will be confirmed to have the virus.[/QUOTE]Yes, which means that the death rate will be more accurate compared to when less testing takes place e. G. Sweden. Unfortunately some people here fail to understand that and basically draw conclusions from data which they do not understand.
Without a doubt population density majorly determines infection rates which in turn plays a heavy hand in determining mortality rates (deaths within a total population). What the density angle doesn't really explain is the case fatality rate, CFR (deaths once you have the disease). In the case of the US, ours is sitting at 3. 7%. Even in densely populated NYC as you explain, that rate is at 6.3%. Compare those numbers to the entire countries of France, Spain, Belgium, UK, and the Netherlands whose CFR are all over 10%. The city of NYC alone, despite its density, is keeping people alive at a greater rate than entire western European countries even when you dilute their infection rates with the countryside. So despite overloading the healthcare system in our most densely populated city, we are still producing better results than entire developed countries.
As for quality of care, while the science of medicine is somewhat universal, the logistics of delivering that care is not. The US has the most number of critical care beds and ventilators per capita than any nation in the world. In addition to doctors, we utilize a system of mid-level providers such as Nurse practitioners (NPs) and Physicians Assistants (PAs). In addition, our nurses are more likely to be university educated than those in Europe. Despite our problems with poor general health and a population suffering from chronic illnesses, the numbers do show that we are superior in responding to an acute medical crisis than most of our developed nation peers.
At any rate, my point was to correct several statements that portrayed a picture of American carnage responding to Covid-19 and other criticisms of American healthcare when the data show that we are doing a better job than most of these western European nations. And I'll reiterate the need to pay attention to the data rather than the sensational images on your screens. That's what smart men do, use the data.
[QUOTE=Samplerr;2442123]I doubt that differences in death rates amongst developed nations can be explained to any great degree by differences in the quality of care. Infection rates and their control are arguably the greatest source of differences.
Higher population density in Western European cities facilitated a faster spread of the virus that frequently overwhelmed health infrastructure. The US has comparative advantages because of geography / population density, but where it doesn't you have similar problems to what we've witnessed in Italy, Spain etc. New York city is the textbook example, where around one third of the national death toll is generated by 2. 5% of the population.
Some of the developed nations that have to date fared best, such as Australian and New Zealand, have greatly benefitted from low population densities and their lack of neighbours. Certain Southeast Asian countries have been much better at controlling the spread of the virus from an early stage because their testing, tracking and isolating programs have been superior.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Samplerr;2442123]I doubt that differences in death rates amongst developed nations can be explained to any great degree by differences in the quality of care. Infection rates and their control are arguably the greatest source of differences.
Higher population density in Western European cities facilitated a faster spread of the virus that frequently overwhelmed health infrastructure. The US has comparative advantages because of geography / population density, but where it doesn't you have similar problems to what we've witnessed in Italy, Spain etc. New York city is the textbook example, where around one third of the national death toll is generated by 2. 5% of the population.
Some of the developed nations that have to date fared best, such as Australian and New Zealand, have greatly benefitted from low population densities and their lack of neighbours. Certain Southeast Asian countries have been much better at controlling the spread of the virus from an early stage because their testing, tracking and isolating programs have been superior.[/QUOTE]I agree, there are many quotes here saying that this or that is proof of the quality of certain health care systems. The prime determinants of a countries mortality rate per population, not per infection, is its underlying population density and the stage of the pandemic it is in.
Lower population densities certainly help, it is no wonder that New York is the worst afflicted area of the US. However the only way to assess a health care system is the mortality rate per those who are seriously afflicted with the disease, we don't really have such general statistics, but we can assess mortality rates per known infection.
And in that respect certain countries are doing quite poorly despite the futile assertions to the contrary here and from the numbers I have just seen on CNN, the US is not doing particularly badly but it is in an earlier phase of the pandemic, given the lag between infection time and death, the mortality rate will increase in the US.
There aren't really any effective treatments for this as far as I know, so it is really up to your immune system. The reason people are touting arguments like our health care system is much better, we will therefore handle it better or we are just better people is that they are deadly scared and nervous and hoping this is the case against a careful reading of the evidence.
Lower population densities coupled with a sensible lockdown are a definitive advantage, certainly Australia is far less vulnerable than India would be given its far lower density, but in this respect the US outside of its relatively dense urban areas, of which there are relatively few, would have a slower rate of progression than many European regions. Unless there is an effective treatment, no countries health care system will make much of a difference.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2442049]New York City is doing terrible but New York City only represents less that 0.3 percent of the entire United States. As much as the media and Europeans talk terribly about our healthcare system, the fact remains, we are doing a much better job treating the sick during this pandemic than most European nations. That's a statistical fact.[/QUOTE]I do not get the impression that news outlets are using infection / death rates as a means to evaluate any one nation's level of medical care. If anything doctors and nurses in Wuhan, Lombardy, and NYC are seen as heroes. Nobody doubts their competency or blames them for high number of lives lost. All the blame usually goes to politicians who downplayed the threat and failed to prepare.
Milan politicians encouraging citizens to go out even after first 11 towns locked down: [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/a-warning-to-europe-italy-struggle-to-convince-citizens-of-coronavirus-crisis[/URL].
Germany politicians have been lauded. Their first chain of infections came a month before Italy's. They effectively contained that first cluster which bought them crucial time to ramp up capacity (urgent care beds, testing kit, medical / emergency personnel capacity). [URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUSKCN21R1DB[/URL].
However, media from around the world is decrying the lack of universal health care in the USA, and questioning why poor Black and Hispanic communities are dying at disproportionate rates.
[QUOTE=Apollyon;2441993]How about renaming this thread as the Corona Covid-19 Lounge?[/QUOTE]Please Einstein tell us how your mongering is going.
[QUOTE=Apollyon;2441993]How about renaming this thread as the Corona Covid-19 Lounge?[/QUOTE]That would save a lot of time for anyone looking for information about P6 in Germany.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2442171]Please Einstein tell us how your mongering is going.[/QUOTE]My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.
Of course, Apollyon may have other thoughts
[QUOTE=Akibono;2441973]First, you should read an article about why it is dangerous and stupid to infect yourself. You are either selfish or expect the girl to be stupid. Second, just because a girl has some immunity does not make her safe in any way. If she goes with a asymptomatic punter before you, her contamination will easily infect you. This virus is highly transmissible. Also, if she is immune, she has no incentive to adequately disinfect herself before you. In most clubs, the girls don't even fully shower between clients. Don't dream. Follow the science. If you want to partake, pay up and go with an escort that is not seeing 10+ people a day in a highly contaminated environment. Don't this that towel that is put on the bed will protect you from that infected punter before you. To be safe, everyone entering the club must pass a test. Do you think that is likely?[/QUOTE]Sharks took temperature on 13/14 March just before closed, Oase didn't control, I think also no control in NRW. Pretty sure virus was already in FKK land, with so many guys and girls, still few Asians seen, but in brothels, we share some of our diseases, even using condom, better to be aware, risky playfield and can also be for relatives, I think about chlamydia for wife, or HIV from AO, a reason for the new law in Germany to protect families. About future and risks in these places, I think better to have gotten and recovered from, then no more risk about it, when quite impossible with so many guys and girls from all over the world, virus don t play in FKK land. Better to know for risky health people, but it could already be risky before virus, not only this virus in FKK land.
[QUOTE=Optimist;2442187]My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.
Of course, Apollyon may have other thoughts[/QUOTE]Business in cars? In hotel? If still open in Germany, closed in France. My contact at GT is off now. My contact at Globe is at home. Both made big money since years, so they can take a rest for months.
[QUOTE=Optimist;2442187]My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.
Of course, Apollyon may have other thoughts[/QUOTE]It seems to me that many mongers believe they are immune to Corona. It seems as if they would go back to their mongering ways today if they could if the governments allowed it. Social distancing and quarantine are mere nuisance forced on them in this narrative.
I disagree. I am not in the risky age groups and I do not have any Existing conditions that predispose me to the virus. I still am observing the distancing rules strictly and Staying home. I'm lucky that I can wfh w / o loss of any income, and the biggest misfortune that has befallen on me is the loss of a huge amount in stock markets but I can weather it.
Sugar babes are quite desperate now. I see many pretty new girls on the site, and most are out of jobs and have no income. If my intention was to just fuck a girl, it is easier to do so locally, and prices are even cheaper than FKKs. I'm not meeting them out of caution and for my own safety. I am surprised that mongers are desperate to fuck ex FKK girls in Germany whichever way they can. If you are willing to do so, you might as well eschew all distancing rules and try to build your own personal dose of herd immunity.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2442158]Lower population densities certainly help, it is no wonder that New York is the worst afflicted area of the US. However the only way to assess a health care system is the mortality rate per those who are seriously afflicted with the d
isease, we don't really have such general statistics, but we can assess mortality rates per known infection.
And in that respect certain countries are doing quite poorly despite the futile assertions to the contrary here and from the numbers I have just seen on CNN, the US is not doing particularly badly but it is in an earlier phase of the pandemic, given the lag between infection time and death, the mortality rate will increase in the US.
There aren't really any effective treatments for this as far as I know, so it is really up to your immune system. The reason people are touting arguments like our health care system is much better, we will therefore handle it better or we are just better people is that they are deadly scared and nervous and hoping this is the case against a careful reading of the evidence.[/QUOTE]Yet New York City mortality rates are still lower than these "hard hit" nations. NYC is one of the most densely populated cities, if not the most in the western world, and the death rate of those infected is still lower than entire countries even accounting for the countryside population in those nations. As of today, 5800 deaths in New York county with 92,000 cases. That's 6.7%. Several European countries are sitting at a 10% case fatality rate. At this point, the US is far enough along the timeline to have peaked. Intubation rates and hospitalization rates have gone down in the past 3 days in New York. Other areas will see a surge but it will not be as bad as New York. The US is already on the plateau phase and while deaths will continue, death rates will decrease even more.
Regarding treatment, I transitioned to the ICU last week and effective protocols have already been established. Medicine is more complex than the public who thinks that a magic medication will come "cure" this. As with all advanced viral respiratory illnesses, symptom management is the treatment. Maintaining adequate ventilation whether it is via ventilator or a simple nasal cannula, sepsis control through blood pressure management and intravenous hydration, and some antibiotics to address secondary infections. That's all there is to do. Some antiviral therapies may help but that is hardly concretely established in the literature.
[QUOTE=Optimist;2442187]My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.[/QUOTE]If you believe their statistics Chinese should be one of the least likely nationalities to have it at the moment. Since yesterday doubt any Chinese or Americans are flying into Germany given the 2 weeks quarantine. I asked some girls at Sharks if they ever saw customers outside of the club some said yes, some said never. I imagine the girls that said never are relaxing that policy at the moment.
A mini private FKK sounds intriguing, wish I was in lockdown in Germany, not just for that reason. Sounds like they are streets ahead of other countries with their testing and availability of hospital beds.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2442051]I know, we may have second wave even next year like Spanish flu, it killed more people with second wave. This won't be over till vaccines are invented, and even then virus can come back with different form like influenza is, that is why we get shot with updated vaccines every year.
Well, then why did so many nations around globe had destruction of medical system to the extent they did not even have masks or gloves or life supporting equipment were so short of needs that doctors had to choose who will get the life supporting system etc.
Look, I hope world especially human are wonderful as we like to believe, west love idealism. Japan like to believe in idealism too, we like it, but we stick to reality and are more practical. Meaning Japan think like this, if we say we are testing people so easily then mass public will rush to hospital to test themselves especially with japans good insurance policy where most things are covered and where people love going to hospital as we are health hygiene conscious race, so this will create many problems including cluster infections at hospital while waiting and even we test and tests results are positive, we do not want to treat mild symptom patients with medicine like avigan because we rather to keep them to fix it with their immune system first, either way there will be panic plus the cluster infections, so what we focused on is to make people to stay home not to gather and for those who need to go out side go out side if it is related to work or buying food.
It is different way of approaching it and japans way of not being idealistic and not trusting what mass public could do is different. We know what will happen if we begin testing people as they request based on mild symptom. And hey, it is Japanese mass public we are talking here, based on truth, we have reputation of being very polite, organized and disciplined than other nations, but even then we were careful to how mass public may react if people began going to hospitals. As a result, we do not have collapse of hospital here and we still have masks and gloves at hospital, in pharmacy, we stopped selling it as one request, but one can only buy certain amount per day and is hard to find now. But fed did give us 2 recyclable masks per person in Japan, which apparently cost 467 million USD to distribute this 2 masks, which could have made apparently 5 million pills of Avigan, which we want to make just in case there is over shooting of allowed infection rates testing. There is easy testing kits available, but it is not that accurate apparently, either way we do not test everyone at hospital..[/QUOTE]To your question why did some countries have such poor medical systems and why were they shown in such poor light by Corona?
The answer is a combination. Some countries are poor and didn't have sufficient funds to build up a good medical system. This was probably true in China and will be true in India and Africa as Pistons said a few times.
Some countries do have money but didn't spend sufficiently on healthcare. Also, what they had spent on matters too. US spends 20% of GDP on healthcare but there are large gaps. We have a public / private payer system as compared to mostly public payer in other countries. So, for example we pay a higher amount for the same drug than in most other countries. We have some extremely sophisticated things in US but some hospitals may not have sufficient PPE.
More importantly, when a sudden spike happens in number of cases, any local hospital can be overwhelmed. This can be a local issue. US a whole may have sufficient number of ventilators etc but if you have too many cases in NYC and too few cases in Florida, You can not match supply with demand efficiently because these are sick patients and cannot flows to other areas of the country.
I agree with someone who said this before. Poly perhaps. The rich countries will be fine. We will beat this. Yes, a lot of people are dead and many will lose jobs and loss of networth due to stock market but we will generally be fine. I am not so sure about poor countries. Many millions may die in those countries.
[QUOTE=Optimist;2442187]My information is of course second hand but from reliable contacts, as I am not currently in Germany although I was there after some clubs had already closed. Some girls are still in Germany and are entertaining regulars, there are a few groups of girls operating like an FKK, but access is by invite only, and Chinese, and American visitors are specifically excluded.
Of course, Apollyon may have other thoughts[/QUOTE]I doubt we'll hear from those regulars.
In my last few visits to Sharks ending mid March I collected contact info from some girls who were willing to come to my hotel. Most of the girls agreed to E150/1 hour which was fine by me. Any girls who asked for significantly more I discarded. One Latvian who I banged for E50/1/2 hour told me with a straight face E500/1 hour. In the end I decided to get the hell out of Germany. Good thing I did I might have been stuck there and accumulated quite a bill.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2442168]I do not get the impression that news outlets are using infection / death rates as a means to evaluate any one nation's level of medical care. If anything doctors and nurses in Wuhan, Lombardy, and NYC are seen as heroes. Nobody doubts their competency or blames them for high number of lives lost. All the blame usually goes to politicians who downplayed the threat and failed to prepare.
However, media from around the world is decrying the lack of universal health care in the USA, and questioning why poor Black and Hispanic communities are dying at disproportionate rates.[/QUOTE]Regarding health systems, not the media, individual posters on this forum.
The media is however guilty of portraying carnage and woe and using the data deceptively which have been regurgitated here. Regarding the USA, I have rarely seen the mainstream video media talk about death rates, only raw misleading numbers.
Regarding minority death, oh hell, I work in healthcare and see the reason first hand. First, only 9% of people in America do not have access to health insurance, keep that in mind. 91% have coverage, that may not be universal but it sure is probably much higher than the number you were thinking. The difference between black and white insurance coverage is only 2-3%, that does not explain the current disparity in covid mortality. You know what does? Cultural behavior leading to comorbidities. Healthy diet and fitness just isn't as integrated into the black and brown cultures. Their lower economic situations does not encourage physical health to be a main priority. Access to primary care may be a factor, but hardly the major player here.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2442265]To your question why did some countries have such poor medical systems and why were they shown in such poor light by Corona?
The answer is a combination. Some countries are poor and didn't have sufficient funds to build up a good medical system. This was probably true in China and will be true in India and Africa as Pistons said a few times.
Some countries do have money but didn't spend sufficiently on healthcare. Also, what they had spent on matters too. US spends 20% of GDP on healthcare but there are large gaps. We have a public / private payer system as compared to mostly public payer in other countries. So, for example we pay a higher amount for the same drug than in most other countries. We have some extremely sophisticated things in US but some hospitals may not have sufficient PPE.
More importantly, when a sudden spike happens in number of cases, any local hospital can be overwhelmed. This can be a local issue. US a whole may have sufficient number of ventilators etc but if you have too many cases in NYC and too few cases in Florida, You can not match supply with demand efficiently because these are sick patients and cannot flows to other areas of the country.
I agree with someone who said this before. Poly perhaps. The rich countries will be fine. We will beat this. Yes, a lot of people are dead and many will lose jobs and loss of networth due to stock market but we will generally be fine. I am not so sure about poor countries. Many millions may die in those countries.[/QUOTE]France could move sick people when they were a bit better and could be moved, to other parts of France, or to Germany, Luxemburg or Switzerland. No states nor landers in France, easier to move. But big thanks to these 3 countries to help us a lot, to have free beds for worst cases. Average time in intensive care is 20 days, blocking bed and medical equipment, needing 5 medical staff to turn on back or belly, to help to recover lungs, and so many died, of course only worst cases were under intensive care.
Seem virus now spreading in islands towns in Japan, good luck to them, when France and Italy seem to be a bit better, after 9 black days in France. But Spain and now UK are in big trouble, still US also.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2442168]I do not get the impression that news outlets are using infection / death rates as a means to evaluate any one nation's level of medical care. If anything doctors and nurses in Wuhan, Lombardy, and NYC are seen as heroes. Nobody doubts their competency or blames them for high number of lives lost. All the blame usually goes to politicians who downplayed the threat and failed to prepare.
Milan politicians encouraging citizens to go out even after first 11 towns locked down: [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/23/a-warning-to-europe-italy-struggle-to-convince-citizens-of-coronavirus-crisis[/URL].
Germany politicians have been lauded. Their first chain of infections came a month before Italy's. They effectively contained that first cluster which bought them crucial time to ramp up capacity (urgent care beds, testing kit, medical / emergency personnel capacity). [URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-germany-defences-i/pass-the-salt-the-minute-details-that-helped-germany-build-virus-defences-idUSKCN21R1DB[/URL].
However, media from around the world is decrying the lack of universal health care in the USA, and questioning why poor Black and Hispanic communities are dying at disproportionate rates.[/QUOTE]Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.
UK 37,000+.
Spain 18,000+.
Italy 20,000+.
France 15,000+.
Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.
Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down.
USA itself is projected to have 61,000+ deaths. Unfortunately, NYC accounted for so many of US deaths, and will by the time this ends.
As for excessive suffering in minority populations, it is an unfortunate fact. We do not have universal free healthcare as they do in Europe, and hence death and suffering will follow income and wealth axis in USA, at least at a broad statistical level.
Our beloved Romania is supposedly doing a fabulous job. Just 700+ total deaths by Aug. Bulgaria is even better at 225+. Poland is at 2300+. I guess they locked down when the rest of Europe and US did, and they didn't have too many people traveling back and forth between them to Italy or Asia.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2442265]To your question why did some countries have such poor medical systems and why were they shown in such poor light by Corona?
The answer is a combination. Some countries are poor and didn't have sufficient funds to build up a good medical system. This was probably true in China and will be true in India and Africa as Pistons said a few times.
Some countries do have money but didn't spend sufficiently on healthcare. Also, what they had spent on matters too. US spends 20% of GDP on healthcare but there are large gaps. We have a public / private payer system as compared to mostly public payer in other countries. So, for example we pay a higher amount for the same drug than in most other countries. We have some extremely sophisticated things in US but some hospitals may not have sufficient PPE.
More importantly, when a sudden spike happens in number of cases, any local hospital can be overwhelmed. This can be a local issue. US a whole may have sufficient number of ventilators etc but if you have too many cases in NYC and too few cases in Florida, You can not match supply with demand efficiently because these are sick patients and cannot flows to other areas of the country.
I agree with someone who said this before. Poly perhaps. The rich countries will be fine. We will beat this. Yes, a lot of people are dead and many will lose jobs and loss of networth due to stock market but we will generally be fine. I am not so sure about poor countries. Many millions may die in those countries.[/QUOTE]I think we should stop talking about issue that cannot be solved in sex forum LOL, so let keep it last.
Some nations are not honest, good example is China. It is big nation now thanks to Japan for giving them technology and money via ODA to begin with if you know some politic (google ODA), but they are not honest government there, this also goes to Russia too, and also south Korea. In political slug, we call it the red team.
As for poor nations, virus has not got there yet, it is still spreading, and we begin to see it in Africa just recently like it took some time to get to Europe and USA and during that time Japan was giving warning because we are the first G7 nation with one of the most advance medical nation with many biggest medical companies in the world to get it as China is right next to us, but Europe and USA then thought it is a problem on other side of the world and they did not even begin preparing life support equipment production or even masks.
Also poor nations do not even have ways to test it, so they won't even know and if you can do mild to strong or even total lock down now, it is better not to test it. Testing do not do much beside sending them home or give them Avigan etc if they have enough Avigan, which nobody have as of now, we are making it now and it will be ready to ship out to 20 nations in May, even then you should save them for rainy days. You do not want cluster infections at hospital and collapse of medical system like what happened in USA and Europe. There was no point for those people to rush to hospital as they could not do much beside help those are in real need, which they could not due to over capacity of patients who do not need to be there.
Lock down is easier for poor nations as they do not have much responsibilities as other big nations. I already explained about mega companies in Japan, they cannot do total lock down, it is not about money or greed, it is safety net for millions of people around world in financial way, they need to be paid even they are staying home or they will die in different ways than corona and that is actually more dangerous. Plus we believe in balanced lock down, not total lock down, I mean look at nations with total lock down, what happened to them.
We are expecting more worst period to come, so we are preparing for it now, but it won't stand if this goes on for long time. But we know the equipment we have to produce and we have medical companies like Omron, cannon etc producing it and other companies like Toyota etc. Have restructured their factories producing it as well.
Problem is people in Japan, we have about 70 percent decrease in movement of people in Tokyo according to google and yahoo, but we are still not scared enough, we live rather normally still. Most shops, department stores, cinemas, gym etc are closed though, but many restaurants are open. So we are definitely not scared enough.
What did scary now is that, we saw a tiger and a cat infected, one in New York and one in Brussels I think, thankfully in zoo, not in wild, but if this spread to other animals to animals then to humans, it will be hard to control it.
Either way, it won't be fixed on sex forum and look Japan is doing fine as usual and we are the one of the hope here for making vaccines as there are only few countries who can do this and western media has to do their jobs, but they should worry more about some of western nations situation where death rates are crazy, people are panic to the extent fighting for toilet paper, buying guns, digging mass grave among other chaos that is very third world like.
Anyways, G7 nations at least are honest countries enough and they won't lie the figure as it has tremendous damage if they do in other field, but some nations do not test on purpose, it is called strategy, and also again there is no point in testing mild symptom people because after testing they be told to go home and rest, eat well, so they just goto hospital to help destroy medical system and get infected in many cases.
Let hope this will be gone soon and there won't be second wave like Spanish flu, which killed more people with second wave. And I am glad FKK did not have any cluster infection because if FKK did, they will be attacked by politicians as axes of all evil. We do not need another reason for them to take away our BBBJ LOL!
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2442291]Regarding health systems, not the media, individual posters on this forum.
The media is however guilty of portraying carnage and woe and using the data deceptively which have been regurgitated here. Regarding the USA, I have rarely seen the mainstream video media talk about death rates, only raw misleading numbers.
Regarding minority death, oh hell, I work in healthcare and see the reason first hand. First, only 9% of people in America do not have access to health insurance, keep that in mind. 91% have coverage, that may not be universal but it sure is probably much higher than the number you were thinking. The difference between black and white insurance coverage is only 2-3%, that does not explain the current disparity in covid mortality. You know what does? Cultural behavior leading to comorbidities. Healthy diet and fitness just isn't as integrated into the black and brown cultures. Their lower economic situations does not encourage physical health to be a main priority. Access to primary care may be a factor, but hardly the major player here.[/QUOTE]Isn't 9% = 30 millions people, half France, who can't afford healthcare, 11 millions illegal, Hart island for poor when dying, but at least, compare to Asia, we have US figures. Only facts, and my country is also not perfect, but people have healthcare, I pay tax for this, even for foreigners to have healthcare in France.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2442327]Isn't 9% = 30 millions people, half France, who can't afford healthcare, 11 millions illegal, Hart island for poor when dying, but at least, compare to Asia, we have US figures. Only facts, and my country is also not perfect, but people have healthcare, I pay tax for this, even for foreigners to have healthcare in France.[/QUOTE]You are right, it is 30 million. Yet for some reason, we are still keeping people alive in NYC more efficiently than in all of France, Spain, Italy, UK, Belgium, and the Netherlands during this time of crisis.
As for the poor, we have Medicaid for the truly poor. The poor have health care. The people who are without, are the lower middle class. But that is by choice as they can pay privately. Since the US has a tax rate is 10-20 percent lower than the average European nation, we can use that money to pay for private health insurance, but people choose not to. That is the beauty of America, you have the freedom to do what you want. If you choose to not use the 10-20% tax savings and choose to spend it on something else, that is your individual freedom. Unlike Europe where you are forced by your government, we allow people to choice to make bad decisions. But they have to live with that decision. And again, despite these bad choices, our system will still make sure to save your life in a time of emergency. Hence, the superior survival rate during this COVID crisis. Facts.
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2441955]The coronavirus is a giant problem for the Swedish economy, otherwise not so much. I know that many people in other countries wishes that they had the freedom that we have in Sweden.
The government haven't done much and the changes they are contemplating are small stuff like closing down certain bars and restaurants. As I, unlike you, live in Sweden and actually read and follow the news closely, I can safely say that you don't know what you are talking about.
Sweden's infected rate per million is lower than the one of Norway, Denmark, Israel, Austria and the list goes on, so please refrain from spreading disinformation.[/QUOTE]Who cares if you live in Sweden? I use to work and live in Sweden for a number of years in Malmo and other areas of the country. I traveled to over 100+ countries for work and play. Not sure why you would imply living in Sweden means you know more than others, you're a monger, not a politician.
My profession as a health scientist would make me well aware of COVID-19 and the effects on the economy and the people. Despite Sweden's apprehension, I can tell you that they could have better managed the crisis. Please refrain from using your citizenship as an automatic "we should trust you". Clearly, many forum members think otherwise.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2442327]Isn't 9% = 30 millions people, half France, who can't afford healthcare, 11 millions illegal, Hart island for poor when dying, but at least, compare to Asia, we have US figures. Only facts, and my country is also not perfect, but people have healthcare, I pay tax for this, even for foreigners to have healthcare in France.[/QUOTE]The best health care one can receive is called BBBJ for the rate of 50 euro per 30 min LOL!
German FKK BBBJ is the best revitalization therapy for your soul LOL! You can even choose your international nurse who provide you BBBJ therapy as you wish LOL!
Clinic FKK LOL!
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2442312]Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.
UK 37,000+.
Spain 18,000+.
Italy 20,000+.
France 15,000+.
Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.
Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down.
USA itself is projected to have 61,000+ deaths. Unfortunately, NYC accounted for so many of US deaths, and will by the time this ends.
As for excessive suffering in minority populations, it is an unfortunate fact. We do not have universal free healthcare as they do in Europe, and hence death and suffering will follow income and wealth axis in USA, at least at a broad statistical level..[/QUOTE]In Italy 25000 died because of the influenza during the 2015/2016 winter season, no lockdowns then. The focus on deaths made us destroy the economy and we might walk into a new Great Depression. Maybe it would have been better to let nature take it's course as we always have done before in history.
[QUOTE=AZNMonger;2442394]Not sure why you would imply living in Sweden means you know more than others, you're a monger, not a politician.[/QUOTE]I agree that one does not necessarily know more than somebody else simply by virtue of their nationality. But, I wish that mongers would stop putting other mongers down precisely because they are mongers (seeing a lot of this lately in several threads). Conversely, somebody doesn't necessarily know less than somebody else simply by virtue of the fact of being a monger. There are many well-traveled, well-educated, intelligent people here from literally all walks of life. I would even bet a few politicians! So, when we have a disagreement with one of our mongering brothers, let us not criticize them for being a monger, and then use that as a basis to discount the legitimacy and validity of what they say. After all. Remember. If you're here, then you are a monger too! So if you show disdain towards somebody else for being a monger, then you show disdain for yourself.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2442312]Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.
UK 37,000+.
Spain 18,000+.
Italy 20,000+.
France 15,000+.
Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.
Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down..[/QUOTE]I don't know where you get these figures, but France was already nearly 14.000 deaths yesterday which was first not too many deaths day in this so black week, and when only really sick, but all very sick were treated in our hospitals with highest level equipment, but many couldn't be saved, even under intensive care, and I'm afraid Pistons was right, when I know France medical level, I never thought we would have 20.000 deaths, we lost this war, too many deaths, even much less than 1 % risk if you are less than 70 yo, not fat nor diabetic and no lungs nor heart problems, nor cancer. Confined which will be extended over 15 April, is told to save less than 3000 life since 17 March. Italy extend to 3 May. Spain which is down under think to close borders versus Summer tourism, ready to kill their economy. When UK and US don t really respect confined, when french police give penalties, would be really interesting to see real results for NL and Sweden with no confined, even of course can t compare with Italy and Spain where people live with old parents and killed them loving them. Anyway, french thank their doctors, I don t think many of those who were not saved, could have been, when we even used chloroquine, with few deaths from heart problems. Big shame for some who tried to make money, stealing masks, ventilators, those who write or tell to nurses or firemen or hospitals cleaner to stay away, to leave flat or building, because they are at risk about virus. Wish these shameful will be prosecuted and wish they won t need staff they insult because they don t deserve these insulted staff take risks for them. Some medical or safety staff died in this sad war.
[QUOTE=AZNMonger;2442394]Who cares if you live in Sweden? I use to work and live in Sweden for a number of years in Malmo and other areas of the country. I traveled to over 100+ countries for work and play. Not sure why you would imply living in Sweden means you know more than others, you're a monger, not a politician.
My profession as a health scientist would make me well aware of COVID-19 and the effects on the economy and the people. Despite Sweden's apprehension, I can tell you that they could have better managed the crisis. Please refrain from using your citizenship as an automatic "we should trust you". Clearly, many forum members think otherwise.[/QUOTE]You are delusional if you don't understand that I know much more than you do about the situation in Sweden because, unlike you, I live in Sweden and follow the national news closely. You are just a monger.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2442233]Yet New York City mortality rates are still lower than these "hard hit" nations. NYC is one of the most densely populated cities, if not the most in the western world, and the death rate of those infected is still lower than entire countries even accounting for the countryside population in those nations. As of today, 5800 deaths in New York county with 92,000 cases. That's 6.7%. Several European countries are sitting at a 10% case fatality rate. At this point, the US is far enough along the timeline to have peaked. Intubation rates and hospitalization rates have gone down in the past 3 days in New York. Other areas will see a surge but it will not be as bad as New York. The US is already on the plateau phase and while deaths will continue, death rates will decrease even more.
Regarding treatment, I transitioned to the ICU last week and effective protocols have already been established. Medicine is more complex than the public who thinks that a magic medication will come "cure" this. As with all advanced viral respiratory illnesses, symptom management is the treatment. Maintaining adequate ventilation whether it is via ventilator or a simple nasal cannula, sepsis control through blood pressure management and intravenous hydration, and some antibiotics to address secondary infections. That's all there is to do. Some antiviral therapies may help but that is hardly concretely established in the literature.[/QUOTE]You certainly know more about the medical and scientific aspects of this than I do and I think almost anyone else here. So you think it has peaked in the US, I thought that most models had shown otherwise, it might very well have peaked in NYC, but I had thought in the US certainly not, but at most the US is only a few weeks behind Europe anyhow.
All I was doing was interpreting the statistical data and trying to explain it. Most of this is not well understand by quite a few people and their own prejudices factor into their assertions.
What you explained about the implications of treating this illness were illuminating to me, no one, including the news has explained it as well as you have. Thank you for that.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2442312]Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.
UK 37,000+.
Spain 18,000+.
Italy 20,000+.
France 15,000+.
Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.
Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down.
USA itself is projected to have 61,000+ deaths. Unfortunately, NYC accounted for so many of US deaths, and will by the time this ends.
As for excessive suffering in minority populations, it is an unfortunate fact. We do not have universal free healthcare as they do in Europe, and hence death and suffering will follow income and wealth axis in USA, at least at a broad statistical level.
Our beloved Romania is supposedly doing a fabulous job. Just 700+ total deaths by Aug. Bulgaria is even better at 225+. Poland is at 2300+. I guess they locked down when the rest of Europe and US did, and they didn't have too many people traveling back and forth between them to Italy or Asia.[/QUOTE]These projections are in line with what I would expect observing the statistical data thus far. However some of these figures, Bulgaria, Romania and even Poland are highly suspect, the quality of data varies from country to country and the political environment can influence the quality of data in certain countries far more than others, ie the figures in Romania and Bulgaria would be even more suspect due to this.
In Poland, as of now they are still proceeding with presidential elections despite the health implications since the ruling party thinks it can win easily. Some modelling has shown that holding these presidential elections even with many precautions will lead to a further 100,000 infections. I think if these elections go ahead, then the numbers for Poland could spiral. Also many of the most enthusiastic supporters of the ruling party are old people who will come out to vote and younger supporters of the opposition will stay home. That means a disproportionate share of the voting public on election day are vulnerable, what will that do to the death toll?
The one place where this could explode all over the place due to the late lockdown is Metropolitan Tokyo, I really hope not, since I have a vulnerable cousin living there, however this could eclipse the outbreak in NYC.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2442291]Regarding minority death, oh hell, I work in healthcare and see the reason first hand. First, only 9% of people in America do not have access to health insurance, keep that in mind. 91% have coverage, that may not be universal but it sure is probably much higher than the number you were thinking. The difference between black and white insurance coverage is only 2-3%, that does not explain the current disparity in covid mortality.[/QUOTE]The 2-3 percent difference in coverage you speak of is maybe less problematic under normal circumstances. But when there is a respiratory illness that is highly contagious, these untreated and undiagnosed are going to pose a danger to everybody around them. Illegal brown immigrants are not going to seek treatment for fear of being deported. Also if someone does not receive pay while they are sick (like are beloved WGs), they are more likely to go to work even if they have symptoms. All these factors could accelerate the spread.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2442291]You know what does? Cultural behavior leading to comorbidities. Healthy diet and fitness just isn't as integrated into the black and brown cultures. Their lower economic situations does not encourage physical health to be a main priority. Access to primary care may be a factor, but hardly the major player here.[/QUOTE]Yes perhaps poor diet and fitness is 80 percent of the problem, but the liberals and academics believe that de-facto segregation plays a role in economic outcomes which in turn affects both lifestyle and health outcomes. According to Harvard School of Public Health journal back in 2016:
[QUOTE]where we live determines opportunities to access high-quality education, employment, housing, fresh foods or outdoor space all contributors to our health.
"Health builds from where we live, learn, work and play and only secondarily in the doctors office.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/hsph-in-the-news/health-disparities-between-blacks-and-whites-run-deep/.[/QUOTE]Being poor, being Black, living in a dangerous community, and seeing negative outcomes for yourself, your friends, and your family affects stress levels:
[QUOTE]In fact, merely being black in America triggers exposure to stressors linked to premature biological aging. Research indicates that blacks get sick at younger ages, have more severe illnesses and are aging, biologically, more rapidly than whites. Scientists call this the "weathering effect," or the result of cumulative stress.
https://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/policy-dose/articles/2016-04-14/theres-a-huge-health-equity-gap-between-whites-and-minorities.[/QUOTE]Black and brown communities are situated in areas with high air and toxic pollution. Black children are 500 times more likely to die from asthma:
[QUOTE]These negative health effects just get worse as you get older. Throughout your life, you're accumulating air pollution exposures, says Rachel Nethery, a biostatistician at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health who co-authored the new pre-print. Air pollution exposure in young adults has been linked to abnormal changes in the blood, which can lead to heart disease and high blood pressure later in life, both risk factors for severe and fatal Covid-19 cases. In adults, this has been closely associated with cardiovascular disease and diabetes.
https://www.vox.com/2020/4/11/21217040/coronavirus-in-us-air-pollution-asthma-black-americans
[/QUOTE]
I am kinda going against the flood here and suspect Sweden did the right move in not closing down as much. The only thing they should have done better was to test far more than they have. You cannot test enough in order to get real data.
Because the only way I see it now, is that we have to burn this thing out. Although not destroying the health system, we need to keep it at max capacity in order to burn it out as quickly as possible. Otherwise, the virus will just mutate thousands of times before we reach herd imunity. And the more it mutates, the harder it will get to reach herd imunity. And also, the less effective vaccines will become. Actually, vaccines will be 99.99% useless from day one is my prediction due to the mutation rates some scientists are seing.
So basically, people will just have to die. A lot of people. It is the only way for society to get back to where we were. Otherwise, we'll just be herds in a cage for the rest of our lives. And hell, even Netflix, HBO and others are putting TV shows on hold, and gyms are closed. So this is getting boring fast.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2442318]I think we should stop talking about issue that cannot be solved in sex forum LOL, so let keep it last.
Some nations are not honest, good example is China. It is big nation now thanks to Japan for giving them technology and money via ODA to begin with if you know some politic (google ODA), but they are not honest government there, this also goes to Russia too, and also south Korea. In political slug, we call it the red team.
As for poor nations, virus has not got there yet, it is still spreading, and we begin to see it in Africa just recently like it took some time to get to Europe and USA and during that time Japan was giving warning because we are the first G7 nation with one of the most advance medical nation with many biggest medical companies in the world to get it as China is right next to us, but Europe and USA then thought it is a problem on other side of the world and they did not even begin preparing life support equipment production or even masks.
Also poor nations do not even have ways to test it, so they won't even know and if you can do mild to strong or even total lock down now, it is better not to test it. Testing do not do much beside sending them home or give them Avigan etc if they have enough Avigan, which nobody have as of now, we are making it now and it will be ready to ship out to 20 nations in May, even then you should save them for rainy days. You do not want cluster infections at hospital and collapse of medical system like what happened in USA and Europe. There was no point for those people to rush to hospital as they could not do much beside help those are in real need, which they could not due to over capacity of patients who do not need to be there..[/QUOTE]Can you believe virus was not in FKK land, quite impossible it was not, even when was taken temperature at Sharks entry, but most infected don t have any symptom. Isn't also virus spreading in Japan islands towns? And I'm pretty sure virus will be in FKK land when will reopen, with so many guys and girls from all over the world. Anyway, interesting to have Japanese opinion about other Asian countries, but don t You mean North Korea for red, or really South? Russia is not so red anymore, but for sure not land of truth nor real freedom, not yet, not under Putin. Ana would shout about me if she heard me saying this about Putin who gave pride again to Russians from Moscow or Peter or Sotchi, when Russia was falling after the wall. Romania fell, ex DDR was lucky to become Germany.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2442312]Germany has done a really good job indeed. The projected total deaths in Germany are slightly more than 7,000 by Aug. The other big countries in Eu have the following #.
UK 37,000+.
Spain 18,000+.
Italy 20,000+.
France 15,000+.
Italy, the much maligned country, has come back very strong. Models are forecasting very few deaths after May 1.
Sweden is at 13,000+ and NL is at 18,000+. Those are very high numbers for small populations. Not good management, and probably because they waited too long to lock down..[/QUOTE]So you missed out on this article?
[URL]https://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/bergamo-citta/coronavirus-the-real-death-tool-4500-victims-in-one-month-in-the-province-of_1347414_11/[/URL]
That is for Italy, a country which has been fairly good at testing people. With 15.935 tests per 1 M. In Comparison, Germany has 15.730 tests per 1 M. So Italian numbers are more accurate than German numbers. And in Italy, it seems they are only managing to pick up on about 44% of deaths from the virus.
New York for comparison tests 22.478 per 1 M, so figures there are probably a bit more precise. But Spain, UK and France has been very sloppy, so you can probably multiply it by 3-4 in those countries. Meaning for example France now has probably over 50 000 deaths. Hi Sirioja, remembers what we discussed a few days ago?
But of course, make your own number calculations. I will stick to mine. For India for example, with just 137 tests per 1 M, I suspect the real figures can probably be multiplied by 100-150. And Brazil is underepoting by 50+ times. And Africa pretty much doesn't have any testing capacity worth recognizing at all. But US figures shows Africans are 6 times more at risk than whites. Questions is just is that is due to the reasons the officials claim. I personally think the genetic factors play a larger role in all of this, so Africa will be hit harder than anywhere else. They will also face the same 'Hunger Games' scenario India is experiencing. Further increasing the death numbers from other non-corona related deaths. So there are no epicenters any longer its pretty global.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2442461]You certainly know more about the medical and scientific aspects of this than I do and I think almost anyone else here. So you think it has peaked in the US, I thought that most models had shown otherwise, it might very well have peaked in NYC, but I had thought in the US certainly not, but at most the US is only a few weeks behind Europe anyhow.
All I was doing was interpreting the statistical data and trying to explain it. Most of this is not well understand by quite a few people and their own prejudices factor into their assertions.
What you explained about the implications of the treating this illness were illuminating to me, no one, including the news has explained it as well as you have. Thank you for that.[/QUOTE]Information and I think quite reliable, give more than 8000 deaths for only NY, and about 2000 deaths per day since more than one week in whole US, with more deaths among poor black and Latina people than rich white, even many obesity and diabetic. Doctors and same in France are about how many infected, but we can't really know because most numerous have no symptom, but a French investigation tell 1 infected may give to 3 people who may give to 9 , spreading. From my job, and how I was often asked: You can break, You can clean, you can do as you need, but get result we order you. So I judge how many deaths compare to population. I'm very happy for the so many infected who have no problem, even I know they are dangerous to spread. Of course, no game to compare Italy or Spain with Sweden. I just often take US example because I find interesting how the most powerful country which thought to be above virus, fell on so big trouble. I doubt Trump is able, but I think black Obama ideas about healthcare for all, were a real improvement for the most powerful country. France is not better than US versus virus, but healthcare is for all and even foreigners, and when I'm often mad about my tax when we have highest tax, but I will never complain to pay tax for healthcare for others, or for school. Of course I m a dreamer, but shouldn't everybody have access to healthcare, be able to read and understand world where we live? I would call this fair world.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2441100]What we have everywhere in actuality is controlled herd immunity. The point is not that Sweden is right, the point is to stagger it so that the death toll is not that high.
[/QUOTE]The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.
Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg[/URL]
I would suggest the best strategy is:
1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.
2. Everybody else carry on as normal.
So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.
After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, the virus fizzles out, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.
Why wouldn't that work?
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2442231]It seems to me that many mongers believe they are immune to Corona.[/QUOTE]No one is immune, but not everyone is buying into the medias scaremongering.
[QUOTE]The most common symptoms of COVID-19 are fever, tiredness, and dry cough. Some patients may have aches and pains, nasal congestion, runny nose, sore throat or diarrhea. These symptoms are usually mild and begin gradually. Some people become infected but don't develop any symptoms and don't feel unwell. Most people (about 80%) recover from the disease without needing special treatment. Around 1 out of every 6 people who gets COVID-19 becomes seriously ill and develops difficulty breathing. Older people, and those with underlying medical problems like high blood pressure, heart problems or diabetes, are more likely to develop serious illness. People with fever, cough and difficulty breathing should seek medical attention.
[URL]https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses[/URL]#text=symptoms.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2442461]You certainly know more about the medical and scientific aspects of this than I do and I think almost anyone else here. So you think it has peaked in the US, I thought that most models had shown otherwise, it might very well have peaked in NYC, but I had thought in the US certainly not, but at most the US is only a few weeks behind Europe anyhow.
All I was doing was interpreting the statistical data and trying to explain it. Most of this is not well understand by quite a few people and their own prejudices factor into their assertions.
What you explained about the implications of treating this illness were illuminating to me, no one, including the news has explained it as well as you have. Thank you for that.[/QUOTE]Thanks and No problem.
The models keep changing. I remember when the model called for a death toll of millions in the US alone. Then it dropped to 240,000. Then 100 K. Now 60 K.
They're a couple of hot spots festering right now where the populations are already pretty unhealthy to begin with so there is a chance that we'll see another surge of deaths in the upcoming week. That depends on how quickly NYC death rates drop. So long as Detroit and New Orleans areas do not get out of hand, the worst is behind the US.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2442481]The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.
Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg[/URL]
I would suggest the best strategy is:
1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.
2. Everybody else carry on as normal.
So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.
After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.
Why wouldn't that work?[/QUOTE]The lockdown varies in severity from country to country, and the people who move about the most and violate the rules tend to be younger. In Switzerland I would say the lockdown is a bit of a joke. The point about a different rule for over 60's and younger people might be optimal but it won't be enforced for political considerations.
It is more like an all or nothing approach politically. Since the lockdown will not be 100% effective anywhere, what we do have is staggered herd immunity, so that different infectious people are taken out of the pool gradually. So every two weeks a certain segment of potentially infectious people are no longer infectious and so on. There are off course infected people after one two week cycle, but the spread of this is staggered and herd immunity will take ahold anyhow since this is highly infectious, I am not a doctor, but I think this is far more infectious than the flu.
The argument is between staggered and phased herd immunity and the lack of any lockdown. Why won't it work? We don't know for sure but the vast majority of modelling indicates that the ultimate death toll will be far higher with no lockdown at all.
I don't want to predict any dire scenarios or a massive death toll, but many countries that were initially resisting a severe lockdown given the economic cost have decided that the resulting death toll would be at least politically unacceptable, like the UK and the Netherlands and most infamously a certain President.
I think social isolation during 2 or 3 (2 week cycles) could stagger this and potentially do a lot of good. At least in the initial phases, there is good evidence that the lockdown reduces the death toll, in the long run whether the slower development of herd immunity is worth it is anyone's guess, most of the modelling and the medical opinion suggests that it is though. As you know there are countries that are relatively lax, just a few of them, we will know in a month of two what the result of those policies were.
The point is this, very few politicians want to pay the political costs of the economic damage of this lockdown, but in response to the medical advice they have been given, they have chosen to do so. I really do not think that the few dissenting countries know better, I think they are just unwillinng to pay the political price in the short term or worse, have a robotic mind set (I will not say more about this to avoid a flame war).
I will say however that the pseudo nationalistic arguments I hear are not at all convincing to say the least.
If it is true that this mutates very fast or that you can get it more than once like some observations suggest, then herd immunity will not work at all and this has to be snuffed out. I hope to God that that is not true, I hope that herd immunity will gradually take hold.
What you say might work, and I think there is a chance I already had this and my symptoms were very mild. However I will tell you that given the unpredictable nature of the symptoms, even I who is relatively young and quite physically fit would not risk deliberately getting this. I know people who have tested positive for it and recovered with relatively mild symptoms.
Given the fact that so many self interested politicians are advocating a lockdown, what does this tell you? This is more serious than we thought.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2442481]The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.
Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg[/URL]
I would suggest the best strategy is:
1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.
2. Everybody else carry on as normal.
So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.
After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, the virus fizzles out, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.
Why wouldn't that work?[/QUOTE]By the way on a lighter note, this is the first time you have initiated a message without an arabic phrase or something similar. I can see that we are all stressed out by what is happening.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2442214]Looking ahead to better times, I've decided that I would like to take a trip to Germany in 2021 for my next mongering adventure. I'm quite familiar with my favorite FKK destinations in Frankfurt, Hamburg, and Berlin. Also with Munich and Cologne, neither of which I desire to return to for the purposes of mongering. I've also decided to skip Augsburg for the time being. That leaves me with one major metro area that I have yet to fully investigate, and that would be Dusseldorf.
For those who know the Dusseldorf area and environs, which clubs there would you classify as "must-see" clubs? I remember that years ago before I first visited it, many of the "ice bears" referred to Golden Time as "must-see". I went, I saw, and I really did not like it there, and have never returned. I understand that one of my favorites of all time, German, blue-eyed blonde "Artemis Lilia" used to work at GT. Damn glad I found her at another club, as I've no desire to set foot inside of GT again.
So, seems my choices are the following (although I think one of these may have permanently closed): Living Room; Acapulco; Dolce Vita; Planet Happy Garden; Oceans. Would appreciate hearing from those of you who are in the know from direct experience about the pros and cons of each of these clubs, and why any one of them should be on my "must-see" list during my next mongering trip to Ge-monger-ry. Thanks in advance![/QUOTE]Well, I tried to change the topic away from COVID-19 at least for a minute. Any intel on Magnum? Anybody familiar with my expressed likes over the years think I would like it there? Do tell! I'm assuming all these clubs will still be around in 2021. Maybe not.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2442481]The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.
Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg[/URL]
I would suggest the best strategy is:
1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.
2. Everybody else carry on as normal.
So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.
After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, the virus fizzles out, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.
Why wouldn't that work?[/QUOTE]Among less than 70 yo, when no obesity nor diabetic, nor cancer treatment, nor lungs or heart problems, then much less than 1% dying. Most people don t have any symptom. Confined since 1 month in France is told to save not more than 3000 people when already nearly 14000 deaths and unfortunately not finished yet. 8 millions more unemployed in France, no tourism when the first place for tourism in the world. Had to work hard to try to protect my job and earning. Virus but also economic crisis to come very soon. NL and Sweden prefer to save their economy.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2442511]Is it that you are relishing the prospect of no over 60's competing with you for the p4p belles? We all know they are the biggest clientele.[/QUOTE]When will reopen, don t mean no more virus all over the world, so I doubt no virus in FKK land when people from all over the world, so could be risky for not healthy enough and for relatives of clients and WGs. Should be a new FKK world for a while.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2442519]Fully aware this is the German forum. And painfully aware that it's become the Corona Virus opinion of the day forum. So I hope the following break from that is welcomed by at least some. Sometimes people discuss whether Globe is worth it. And you may have heard of its double price competitor Aphrodisia at a heart stopping $USD280/ half. Is it worth it? You decide.[/QUOTE]IMHO, neither Aphrodesia nor Globe are worth it. Not when I have Germany and Brazil. I did enjoy Globe when I went. Had a good anal session with a hot blonde from Gothenburg, Sweden. And literally the best BBBJ / CIM experience I have ever had in my entire life. She was Brazilian. Ahem! LOL! Enjoyed a decent looking Romanian girl at Aphrodesia, but did not like the place nearly as much. Would repeat at both clubs if I were in Switzerland. But, I have no plans to go to Switzerland anytime soon.
It's just too expensive, including food, hotels, transportation. Everything man! No need for me to return when other destinations fully meet and satisfy my needs. Now, as you said, this is a German forum. So, since things are slow, can somebody please provide some input regarding my general inquiry about the clubs around Dusseldorf (see below)? This is the last area of Germany that I want to conquer. The most up-to-date intel available regarding the Dusseldorf metro area clubs would be most appreciated. Thanks!
This should have been done from the get go. Add a caveat that if a sub 60 year old or someone with comorbidities does not want to risk being in that temporary society, they could do it with some sort of mandated job guarantee. Whatever strain that still brings would be better than what's happening now.
The infected threshold of herd immunity for COVID is around 70% so I do wonder how that could be achieved in a short enough time without having to lock up senior citizens for over a year. I don't think a couple of months would do it unless it was done purposefully.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2442481]The current policy everywhere of shutting everything down is not sustainable. We will have to reopen the economy at some point. The question is, how.
Here is one professor who does not believe in social distancing, but in herd immunity.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGC5sGdz4kg[/URL]
I would suggest the best strategy is:
1. Strict isolation for over-60's and people who are sick of anything.
2. Everybody else carry on as normal.
So most of the under-60's will get COVID-19, but they will have mild symptoms or no symptoms at all. A few will require hospitalization, but not enough to overwhelm the hospitals.
After a couple of months, herd immunity develops, the virus fizzles out, and the elderly can be readmitted into society.
Why wouldn't that work?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2442488]Given the fact that so many self interested politicians are advocating a lockdown, what does this tell you? This is more serious than we thought.[/QUOTE]They're probably thinking that the political cost of loss of life would be more damaging than their cost due to economic loss. That's what got Trump and what got be. Johnson. At this point few leaders such as the Brazilian president are betting on the minimal shut down tactic.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2442488]The point about a different rule for over 60's and younger people might be optimal but it won't be enforced for political considerations.[/QUOTE]During WWII the children were sent out of London for their own safety. How about sending the elderly out of London, New York, etc? They would go into special quarantine zones where testing is mandatory. As a short-term thing.
Except for the politicians. They would be shot into outer space.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2442511]Is it that you are relishing the prospect of no over 60's competing with you for the p4p belles?[/QUOTE]
Yes.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2442488]However I will tell you that given the unpredictable nature of the symptoms, even I who is relatively young and quite physically fit would not risk deliberately getting this. [/QUOTE]Wallah, Sayyid Indigo, nor would I. But I think the young should have a choice. Just like they can choose other risky activities like mountaineering and whitewater rafting. If people want to have Coronavirus parties, let them! Yes, they will suffer the consequences. But we will owe them a debt because they contribute to herd immunity. The best way of paying that debt is covering their hospital costs. Again: 99.9% of these young idiots will not die.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2442488]Given the fact that so many self interested politicians are advocating a lockdown, what does this tell you?[/QUOTE]It tells me that pressure was applied from above to maintain a state of crisis so that (a) we will all have our phones traced, (b) fertility rates will drop even more, and (c) there will be strict border controls to keep workers in their pens. These three things are all wet dreams of the global elite.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2442491]Well, I tried to change the topic away from COVID-19 at least for a minute. Any intel on Magnum? Anybody familiar with my expressed likes over the years think I would like it there? Do tell! I'm assuming all these clubs will still be around in 2021. Maybe not.[/QUOTE]I hate to disappoint you and other FKK fans, but just let you know that Merkel said a few days ago in the press conference that she will keep the brothels closed until there is vaccine, according to a German board. So everything is up in the air.
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2442455]You are delusional if you don't understand that I know much more than you do about the situation in Sweden because, unlike you, I live in Sweden and follow the national news closely. You are just a monger.[/QUOTE]LOL! Nice reply. I'm glad you know how to read.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2442561]I hate to disappoint you and other FKK fans, but just let you know that Merkel said a few days ago in the press conference that she will keep the brothels closed until there is vaccine, according to a German board. So everything is up in the air.[/QUOTE]I'm not disappointed one bit. My trip would be in late 2021 well past the 18 month max mark when a vaccine is supposed to be available. I think we will have one before then. We shall see. In the meantime, one must plan. Info on Dusseldorf anyone?
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2442519]Fully aware this is the German forum. And painfully aware that it's become the Corona Virus opinion of the day forum. So I hope the following break from that is welcomed by at least some.
Sometimes people discuss whether Globe is worth it. And you may have heard of its double price competitor Aphrodisia at a heart stopping $USD280/ half. Is it worth it? You decide. Here is a report from a year ago.
Rolled up around 10 and like a lot of these clubs it is very discreet from the street. Uber guy dropped me off but I had to poke around a bit to find it. It is in fact at the pin but only identified by two massive wooden doors. Push your way in and you will see another door labeled Aphrodisia.
Upon arrival, a hostess greets me in the hall and explains the process and prices (yes it's 280 a half! But it scales better. 380 for 45 minutes, 500 an hour). On your right is another door where you enter the club. And wow. I mean wow. This was a Thursday night and there must have been 30 girls and maybe 5-6 guys. I was stunned how many girls there were and they were all slim and pretty.
The club has an unusual format. No cover and the drinks are free. You could literally come in, have a few drinks and leave if you don't like the merch. This is highly unlikely. There are tons of girls and they all eyes on you. It's very unusual, especially if you are used to being the last picked for gym class.
The girls are not allowed to approach so it's a very chill vibe. I found a spot on the couch and chatted up a fellow compatriot who had been before. It was a nice conversation but before long we waived over a dark haired Romanian hottie in a black Danskin. She sat between us and we both chatted her up a bit. I was tempted but we both moved on.
Eventually I settled on Aurelia. An unbelievably pretty German girl. A solid 9 in and out of her clothes. We went upstairs. The rooms are very nice with 12 foot ceilings and a big king bed in a large room. Showered across the hall while she took the money downstairs. Clothes were shed and we had a very pleasant if unspectacular time. We did all the usual stuff but I can't recall the exact sequence (give me a break. I've fucked 5 girls in the last 24 hours and I am in pussy fog!
Her kissing was light and she does not BLS or I would have repeated. Great pussy fit, in both doggie and mish which is rare for me, so that is a big plus. We finished about 20 minutes in but no rush to leave. Shared a cigarette on the bed and just chatted for a while. Nice relaxed mood.
Even though the sex was nothing to write home about there is a classiness to the in-room interaction. Very sweet and professional and at the end where I had left the CH20 change on the table she said "don't forget your money" rather than "a tip for me?" I am definitely not at Sharks or Oase! And Just a classy feel throughout..[/QUOTE]I visited twice Aphrodisia on 2019, each time on Thursday at 7 pm, because Thursday evening is said to be best casting time there. Welcoming desk with good chocolates on desk on my second visit. Both times when I arrived, more than 50 girls, more than at Globe, some sitting behind the bar, all girls looking at you, staring at you, smiling, at least you feel very beautiful if you are self confident enough about your image, and I was the only guy, sultan of harem, girls serve you drink. Free entry and drinking for free, even if you want to drink alcohol, unfortunately, only orange juice for fruit juice, for me. On my 2 visits, I stayed about 8 hours, I saw guys entering, drinking or taking drug on the bar, and leaving without even looking at girls, and from my Russian escorts I pay 200 € for nearly 1 hour, I try to leave at 55 mn not to be asked for 1 hour rate, and from girls in Paris streets I see every day, I never saw any girl, not even Sunny, who worth to pay 280 for 30 mn, or 500 for 1 hour, I had prettier and more fresh girls in Germany, really kissing, I can enjoy for 4 hours in Germany for 1 hour at Aphrodisia and not even better service, with not many really kissing, I was told by some locals. Aphrodisia casting really don't worth the rate, many girls worked in Germany before, but not fresh anymore, like ex Beatrice Oase or Sharks seen on my first visit, but not on second, kind of cemetery for WGs, Aphrodisia is like the end of the road. Even Globe casting fell and not more than 5 girls at Globe now worth the rate = 130 €/30 mn, for me, with CIM 100 , anal 200 . More fresh girls and less silicon, except at GT, in Germany where if you find a beauty for you, you can have 3 hours with her for 1 hour at Globe, and 4 hours with her for 1 hour at Aphrodisia. Casting is on average far higher level for looks and services at Globe than at Aphrodisia, but unfortunately, Globe lost chic, girls lost elegance and charm. Zurich is a small village where cocaine is cheap. According to some locals and from my Swiss experiences, some other Swiss clubs are more interesting now, I mean before virus. Wait and see what will be after, but Globe was not anymore higher level than Germany where I had prettier girls for less expensive in 2019, mostly at Oase and one great at Gold.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2442561]I hate to disappoint you and other FKK fans, but just let you know that Merkel said a few days ago in the press conference that she will keep the brothels closed until there is vaccine, according to a German board. So everything is up in the air.[/QUOTE]Really? Until vaccine which will need months. Austria and maybe Switzerland should reopen before.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2442470]I am kinda going against the flood here and suspect Sweden did the right move in not closing down as much. The only thing they should have done better was to test far more than they have. You cannot test enough in order to get real data.
Because the only way I see it now, is that we have to burn this thing out. Although not destroying the health system, we need to keep it at max capacity in order to burn it out as quickly as possible. Otherwise, the virus will just mutate thousands of times before we reach herd imunity. And the more it mutates, the harder it will get to reach herd imunity. And also, the less effective vaccines will become. Actually, vaccines will be 99.99% useless from day one is my prediction due to the mutation rates some scientists are seing.
So basically, people will just have to die. A lot of people. It is the only way for society to get back to where we were. Otherwise, we'll just be herds in a cage for the rest of our lives. And hell, even Netflix, HBO and others are putting TV shows on hold, and gyms are closed. So this is getting boring fast.[/QUOTE]Mutations occurs in the hosts. The more people that are infected, the more mutations. However, lethality is not good for a virus. If it kills the host quickly, the virus dies too. That is why viruses tend to become less lethal with time. No country has shown an ability to control covid-19 once is rapidly spreads. The only way is suppression. In general, vaccines work even if the virus mutates. There is a lot of similarity and it is easy to target a virus once you have an effective vaccine. The vaccine can be adjusted for any common mutation. The problem here is the virus is novel so we have zero immunity. Even an imperfect vaccine will provide some immunity and at least mitigate the death rate.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2442561]I hate to disappoint you and other FKK fans, but just let you know that Merkel said a few days ago in the press conference that she will keep the brothels closed until there is vaccine, according to a German board. So everything is up in the air.[/QUOTE]Do you have a quote or reference where Merkel specifically mentions prostitution or brothels? I have not seen any.
A summary in English of Merkel's press conference before Easter can be found here: [URL]https://www.thelocal.de/20200409/the-situation-is-fragile-merkel-urges-germans-to-stick-to-coronavirus-restrictions[/URL].
She is quoted as saying: The rules will remain in place as long as we do not have a vaccine that can be used to immunize the population against the virus. .
This was with regard to how this year's summer holidays may be affected and had nothing to do with prostitution specifically. It's unclear which rules she is referring to, however it certainly isn't Germany's plan to keep the status quo until a vaccine has been developed. So I think she is just referencing that some unspecified rules will be in place until that happens.
I see German media reference an expert brief quite a lot which describes a tentative way forward. This article (in German) is one example: [URL]https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/politik-inland/nrw-expertenteam-zum-corona-exit-so-wuerde-laschet-die-regeln-lockern-69996868.bild.html[/URL].
Here is an excerpt from the article, by way of Google Translate:
The expert commission recommends that economic activities should be re-approved as quickly as possible and as far as responsible. Protective measures such as masks, spacing or partitions would have to be taken. Retail stores could, for example, "reopen earlier than discotheques, in gastronomy, strict guidelines may be conceivable (distance between tables, limited number of people)".
The paper also states: "Major events such as Bundesliga soccer matches with spectators, but also trade fairs and congresses will not be possible in the foreseeable future. ".
My point is, I think it is too early to tell what will happen to prostitution in Germany, and particularly FKKs, for the next six to 18 months. Even if a vaccine takes 18 months or longer to develop and distribute, I don't think we can conclude already that FKKs will be closed for the duration.
I still carry a fair hope that it will be possible to lounge in a German FKK garden come July or August 2020.
A meeting between all states and the federal government is set for this coming Wednesday. I think we will know a lot more after the following press conference.
P.S.
And also, I think it will be up to to individual states, and not Merkel and the federal government, if and when the FKKs open again.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2442476]So you missed out on this article?
[URL]https://www.ecodibergamo.it/stories/bergamo-citta/coronavirus-the-real-death-tool-4500-victims-in-one-month-in-the-province-of_1347414_11/[/URL]
That is for Italy, a country which has been fairly good at testing people. With 15.935 tests per 1 M. In Comparison, Germany has 15.730 tests per 1 M. So Italian numbers are more accurate than German numbers. And in Italy, it seems they are only managing to pick up on about 44% of deaths from the virus.
New York for comparison tests 22.478 per 1 M, so figures there are probably a bit more precise. But Spain, UK and France has been very sloppy, so you can probably multiply it by 3-4 in those countries. Meaning for example France now has probably over 50 000 deaths. Hi Sirioja, remembers what we discussed a few days ago?
But of course, make your own number calculations. I will stick to mine. For India for example, with just 137 tests per 1 M, I suspect the real figures can probably be multiplied by 100-150. And Brazil is underepoting by 50+ times. And Africa pretty much doesn't have any testing capacity worth recognizing at all. But US figures shows Africans are 6 times more at risk than whites. Questions is just is that is due to the reasons the officials claim. I personally think the genetic factors play a larger role in all of this, so Africa will be hit harder than anywhere else. They will also face the same 'Hunger Games' scenario India is experiencing. Further increasing the death numbers from other non-corona related deaths. So there are no epicenters any longer its pretty global.[/QUOTE]France is counting not only people dying in hospitals, but old people in residences and others, and less than 15000 deaths today, Italy tell about 20000 deaths but more around Bergamo, and already more than 20000 in US, with more than 15 millions more unemployed with no more healthcare insurance and many people who can't anymore pay their flat rent and have to leave NY. Real crisis in US where some don't even have money to buy to eat. Government should give about 1000 USD to help some, but what about 11 millions illegals? Confined will be extended in France. In France, they say not more than 15% were infected, not enough because of confined, when 1 infected may infect 3 new people. Best is to have been infected and recovered, then no more risk tell french doctors. For sure, best to return to brothels with no risks.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2442633]Women at the helm has never been good for our proclivity. Look what happened to my once favorite destination, Argentina. There have only been undependable social media rumors of vaccines. What about other clubs and crowd activities such as Oktoberfest and music concerts. Are those dependent on vaccines as well? No different congregation activities than brothels.[/QUOTE]Only activity true monger care is brothels and escort service LOL, I ain't going to any events where there is bunch of guys with beers on their hands and girls wearing clothes LOL!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2442583]France is counting not only people dying in hospitals, but old people in residences and others, and less than 15000 deaths today, Italy tell about 20000 deaths but more around Bergamo, and already more than 20000 in US, with more than 15 millions more unemployed with no more healthcare insurance and many people who can't anymore pay their flat rent and have to leave NY. Real crisis in US where some don't even have money to buy to eat. Government should give about 1000 USD to help some, but what about 11 millions illegals? Confined will be extended in France. In France, they say not more than 15% were infected, not enough because of confined, when 1 infected may infect 3 new people. Best is to have been infected and recovered, then no more risk tell french doctors. For sure, best to return to brothels with no risks.[/QUOTE]I saw a report today that the UK does not count deaths in nursing home facilities or deaths that occur in private homes. I mean, how in the world can that be? Makes no sense to me, and if true, proves we're not comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges then because I know the USA does count these types of COVID-related deaths.
[QUOTE=Akibono;2442579]Mutations occurs in the hosts. The more people that are infected, the more mutations. However, lethality is not good for a virus. If it kills the host quickly, the virus dies too. That is why viruses tend to become less lethal with time. No country has shown an ability to control covid-19 once is rapidly spreads. The only way is suppression. In general, vaccines work even if the virus mutates. There is a lot of similarity and it is easy to target a virus once you have an effective vaccine. The vaccine can be adjusted for any common mutation. The problem here is the virus is novel so we have zero immunity. Even an imperfect vaccine will provide some immunity and at least mitigate the death rate.[/QUOTE]Well, it has been said the vaccine against the common flu, which mutates quite a lot as well, only reduces your time of being sick by 10-20%. And that is when the mutation of the season is very close to the one that infects you. Flu viruses from previous seasons probably has an even lower immunity bonus than the 10-20% you get from the vaccine, but may be in larger quantities. So yes, you are right that it may help to some degree. And that the worst mutations will just kill off themselves along with their targets.
But,
1. We don't know yet how fast it mutates.
2. It may mutate in reverse, back to the most lethal forms. While the vaccine makers will most likely miss the most lethal versions in the samples they have used.
3. It has been shown that the corona virus messes with our immune system and can temper with our white blood cells. Then, when we get the vaccine, which is usually crippled forms of the same virus in order to stimulate our immune system without it being able to kill off the virus, the vaccine may become more dangerous than the disease. Because even the crippled forms of Covid-19 may mess with our immune system in a similar way. And this is why I am way more scared of a lifelong vaccine than even a full month of near death at the hospital.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2442649]I saw a report today that the UK does not count deaths in nursing home facilities or deaths that occur in private homes. I mean, how in the world can that be? Makes no sense to me, and if true, proves we're not comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges then because I know the USA does count these types of COVID-related deaths.[/QUOTE]It would make perfect sense if you knew how bonkers the UK government is and how keen they are in running from reality. The death numbers in UK are also managed in a way that they never reach 1000/ day, as that would be psychological too hard for UK people to accept. A bunch of idiots in charge, yet very faithful to their 'Dear Leader' Boris Johnson!
[QUOTE=Pistons;2442703]3. It has been shown that the corona virus messes with our immune system and can temper with our white blood cells. Then, when we get the vaccine, which is usually crippled forms of the same virus in order to stimulate our immune system without it being able to kill off the virus, the vaccine may become more dangerous than the disease. Because even the crippled forms of Covid-19 may mess with our immune system in a similar way. And this is why I am way more scared of a lifelong vaccine than even a full month of near death at the hospital.[/QUOTE]A successful vaccine is made of parts of the proteins of virus, so it would not even look like the virus they came from and it would definitely be inactive. A virus can be active or not active, nothing in between. However, the first vaccine will be tested at the end of this month on healthy volunteer and Advent-Irbm and Oxfor University are attracting a lot of investments for then distribute the vaccine as widely as possible. It may not be so crazy to think we may have a working vaccine in the summer. Fingers crossed.
I would hypothesize that when a vaccine is found, whenever that may be, countries may require people seeking to enter the country to have a vaccination certificate. I am one of those who have a fear of vaccination. What a decision!
[QUOTE=Turgid;2442799]I would hypothesize that when a vaccine is found, whenever that may be, countries may require people seeking to enter the country to have a vaccination certificate. I am one of those who have a fear of vaccination. What a decision![/QUOTE]Many problems with grippe vaccine in France. What about European union, only UK is out now.
Passive vaccines are nothing to fear. They only kill 1 in 10 millions. And have severe side effects 1 in 100,000.
Yet active vaccines are tougher. I had one once, and regret not to have chosen my right arm for the injection. Why the right arm? Simply because I sleep on the left side (ie the left arm). And that was out of the question for 3 nights.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2442799]I would hypothesize that when a vaccine is found, whenever that may be, countries may require people seeking to enter the country to have a vaccination certificate. I am one of those who have a fear of vaccination. What a decision![/QUOTE]
Ugh masks means no oral, no kissing, no anything but stuffing penis in. Sure hope it is more lax. Not even worth going.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2442812]I speak German, and I was not able to spot this statement. She made it clear, that their will be lots of trial and error in relaxing all the constraints. Some sooner (schools) and some later.
There is no reason that brothels should re-open sooner or later then disco-clubs, bars etc.
My take is, that brothels will re-open.
A) if they have a viable strategy to keep customers (mongers) away from each other. As I pointed out in the GT thread, this is for some of the narrow FKK club difficult to achieve. FKK clubs either have to remodel significantly, go bust, or wait for 2021.
B) if they have a viable strategy to keep males safe from the young ladies (e. G. Both most likely will be wearing masks). The ladies will likely have to wear surgical masks in the room (like condom was already mandatory, right?).
C) ladies will be selected by the mongers from a distance. I have seen this already in swiss brothels in 2010 and before.
D) And the mongers might feel or be obligated to wear FFP2 masks during sex. Not 100% sure. But this is conceivable- provided enough of them masks will be around in summer or so.
I think this is all doable. But there is no way that brothels will re-open sooner or later then disco-clubs, bars etc.
Re point a: some red-right districts have an easier time to build safer tracks. Similar to shopping centers.
BTW: ladies that have already been infected may have the best business chances.[/QUOTE]
I am sorry but how are your be and the viable in a sex session between a man and a girl? Are we going to fuck as if we are starring in Eyes Wide Shut? I don't follow your conclusion that they are all doable, as you say at the end. I mean, we have been crying copiously that not all girls are fully nekkid in the main room and that some girls will not suck dick w / o a condom unless extra money is proffered, will guys now accept putting on masks while fucking a girl who also has a mask? (Those N95's are hard to breathe through as such, some old guys may suffer severe consequences if fucking with a n95 on).
I also am not sure if the government will buy the FKK argument (if that is going to be their argument) that sex is safe and no transmission will happen as long as the guy and gal wear some kinda mask. I don't believe chance of transmission is zero if one of them is infected, and I don't see how the government will accept it will be safe.
My guess is, I totally misunderstood what you tried to say. Please correct me.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2442812]I speak German, and I was not able to spot this statement. She made it clear, that their will be lots of trial and error in relaxing all the constraints. Some sooner (schools) and some later.
There is no reason that brothels should re-open sooner or later then disco-clubs, bars etc.
My take is, that brothels will re-open.
A) if they have a viable strategy to keep customers (mongers) away from each other. As I pointed out in the GT thread, this is for some of the narrow FKK club difficult to achieve. FKK clubs either have to remodel significantly, go bust, or wait for 2021.
B) if they have a viable strategy to keep males safe from the young ladies (e. G. Both most likely will be wearing masks). The ladies will likely have to wear surgical masks in the room (like condom was already mandatory, right?)..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2442827]Ugh masks means no oral, no kissing, no anything but stuffing penis in. Sure hope it is more lax. Not even worth going.[/QUOTE]No way would I accept and put up with that! Holding out for late 2021 regardless.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2442542]
The infected threshold of herd immunity for COVID is around 70% so I do wonder how that could be achieved in a short enough time without having to lock up senior citizens for over a year. I don't think a couple of months would do it unless it was done purposefully.[/QUOTE]Salaam Mursenary,
At the current feeble rate of infection, I calculate that Germany will achieve herd immunity in the year 2089.
The current strategy works only as long as everything stays shut. Imagine that. All the factories closed for 69 years. All the shops closed for 69 years. All the schools closed for 69 years. I'm fine with that. But all the FKKs closed for 69 years? By the Prophet! Have I got your attention now?
Suppose we go in the opposite direction. All under-60's hugging and kissing as if they were at a Berlusconi orgy, and passing around greasy pizza. A national lovefest and daily FKK visits compulsory for all non-seniors including manginas. Yes, then it could all be over in a couple of months. Love is the answer. DFK for the win.
You may say I'm a dreamer but I'm not the only one. I just found that this famous German epidemiologist Kekule has the same idea as me:
[URL]https://www.express.de/news/panorama/virologe-stellt-these-auf-schaden-durch-lockdown-groesser-als-durch-corona-36548638[/URL]
Using Google Translate, a summary:
[I]
LOCKDOWN DAMAGE GREATER THAN CORONA
...
"We cannot wait for a vaccine and live in lockdown mode for another six to twelve months. If we did, our society and culture would be destroyed."
...
Older people and people with previous illnesses, i.e. those who are most susceptible to the coronavirus, should remain isolated. Kekule: We have to convince them to stay at home. But we also have to find ways to make the situation bearable for them, so that, for example. shopping and social life are also possible. When this vulnerable group leaves the house, a mask or mask is required.
...
The 61-year-old suggests that young people be (consciously) infected with Sars-CoV-2 in order to become immune as quickly as possible. In the age groups <50, the course of the disease is usually harmless. In this respect - according to the epidemiologist - schools and kindergartens must first be opened after the lockdown. Denmark is already planning this after Easter.
[/I]
Every government / media talking about a vaccine as if it was, simple candy you buy from a supermarket.
Finding the correct vaccine which confers resistance to virus without a side effect, is a cumbersome process that isn't always viable at least in 2020.
Need I remind you HIV, the holy shittiest king of all viruses to ever exist, is hitting earth since at least 1980, yet till today ZERO vaccine available (40 fucking years), among other viruses such as Herpes, Hepatitis see, West Nile virus. Etc.
Not to forget to mention the previous two coronaviruses, Mr SARS and Mrs MERS, which were known in 2003/2012 respectively still till this date has zero vaccine or even a mere antiviral treatment. Granted those viruses weren't a pandemic which didn't put a pressure on government to provide a vaccine nevertheless it still shows making vaccine kr antiviral isn't a simple picnic.
Yes, I'm not a virologist, or immunity specialist, as each virus has its own genome either DNA / RNA and its special envelope and proteins, maybe the virology aspect of Coronavirus makes it an ideal target for a future vaccine that I can't give my input in (But again the previous two coronaviruses which were similar in structure still we failed to create a vaccine).
But for the life of me, I hope government don't put all hopes on an imaginary vaccine, HERD immunity is plan A, Vaccine shouldn't be plan A or be or see, it should be as close as plan Z if anything (little hyperbole for emphasis).
The day Germany / Austria / Switz declare no FKK till vaccine is a sad day. The only benefit of lack of FKK is that my wallet for a first time will start to swell, as FKK really damages my bank account, as it's my number 1 nonessential thing to spend all my money.
[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2442827]Ugh masks means no oral, no kissing, no anything but stuffing penis in. Sure hope it is more lax. Not even worth going.[/QUOTE]Could be even worse: No Oral, No Kissing. Only HJ with girl wearing a glove and mask.
[QUOTE=Mtraveller;2442831]Another German speaker here, watched the video, found the point in the speech referred to. There was no "analogous" statement or any other implication that prostitution will be forbidden till a vaccination will be available. Absolutely nonsense what that user wrote in the Rheinforum.
It should be obvious to any half sane person though, that under rules of social distancing the big clubs will not re-open until other places of social gathering like bars, dancing clubs will be allowed to re-open as well.
Smaller brothels and girls working independently may find it easier to restart business. Once general quarantine restrictions are removed.[/QUOTE]Thank you very much for your input. I am very glad there will be no ban on prostitution until a vaccine will be available, because I live in Germany and perhaps would have much more to lose than most of ISGers if there would be a ban.
[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2442827]Ugh masks means no oral, no kissing, no anything but stuffing penis in. Sure hope it is more lax. Not even worth going.[/QUOTE]Mongering will become more expensive. Sex without a mask will become an extra proposed by the girls in the room.
[QUOTE=Kawaii50;2442838]Could be even worse: No Oral, No Kissing. Only HJ with girl wearing a glove and mask.[/QUOTE]For sure, with no kissing, no good old BJ, no DATY, but masks for both, gloves for both and condom, real erotic, sensual plastic sex, today I was right to prepare bicycle, more enjoyable to rub my balls on seat.
Not that you guys will miss me but I am just going to stop reading this thread for a while. I enjoy reading all the threads of places I've been and will return to. But this thread has become uniquely tedious of all threads worldwide. I recall this happened a year or two ago when 3 or so people just dominated the conversation with oneupmanship. Fortunately it eventually recovered. I hope the same is true here.
See you soon. (I hope).
[QUOTE=Turgid;2442849]Mongering will become more expensive. Sex without a mask will become an extra proposed by the girls in the room.[/QUOTE]Sex without a Hazmat suit will become an extra proposed by the girls in the room.
Or maybe let's stop giving the girls ideas.
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2442878]Not that you guys will miss me but I am just going to stop reading this thread for a while. I enjoy reading all the threads of places I've been and will return to. But this thread has become uniquely tedious of all threads worldwide. I recall this happened a year or two ago when 3 or so people just dominated the conversation with oneupmanship. Fortunately it eventually recovered. I hope the same is true here.
See you soon. (I hope).[/QUOTE]If you think this is bad, don't go to the Tijuana thread.
I am also highly unsure if we get a vaccine done. Remember: there is no vaccine against the rhino-viruses (causing the common cold) - nor AIDS.
Also the virus may have mutated by then. And and and.
There is no way out:
I still believe clubs / brothels MUST adapt to the new normal and start planning for the worst. If everything turns out to be gone in March, so what? At least we are then prepared for the next one, e. G. The MaVid-22 (ie the new Marburger virus- only half-assed kidding here) or PoVid-24.
[QUOTE=MythoVirus;2442837]Every government / media talking about a vaccine as if it was, simple candy you buy from a supermarket.
Finding the correct vaccine which confers resistance to virus without a side effect, is a cumbersome process that isn't always viable at least in 2020.
Need I remind you HIV, the holy shittiest king of all viruses to ever exist, is hitting earth since at least 1980, yet till today ZERO vaccine available (40 fucking years), among other viruses such as Herpes, Hepatitis see, West Nile virus. Etc.
Not to forget to mention the previous two coronaviruses, Mr SARS and Mrs MERS, which were known in 2003/2012 respectively still till this date has zero vaccine or even a mere antiviral treatment. Granted those viruses weren't a pandemic which didn't put a pressure on government to provide a vaccine nevertheless it still shows making vaccine kr antiviral isn't a simple picnic.
Yes, I'm not a virologist, or immunity specialist, as each virus has its own genome either DNA / RNA and its special envelope and proteins, maybe the virology aspect of Coronavirus makes it an ideal target for a future vaccine that I can't give my input in (But again the previous two coronaviruses which were similar in structure still we failed to create a vaccine).
But for the life of me, I hope government don't put all hopes on an imaginary vaccine, HERD immunity is plan A, Vaccine shouldn't be plan A or be or see, it should be as close as plan Z if anything (little hyperbole for emphasis).
The day Germany / Austria / Switz declare no FKK till vaccine is a sad day. The only benefit of lack of FKK is that my wallet for a first time will start to swell, as FKK really damages my bank account, as it's my number 1 nonessential thing to spend all my money.[/QUOTE]
I think the key is testing. Once you can test enough people daily, and I mean like 10% of the population per day so that you can quarantine everyone that gets sick right away, you should be able to get the R0 rate (average number of people each infected person infects) below 1 and the amount of cases will remain under control. You also need to be able to test for antibodies so that some people can be excluded from testing and just go on with life. FKKs will need to have a way to test all their girls and clients. I think this is the trick to FKKs being able to convince the government that they are not causing harm by spreading coronavirus. Today, testing needs to be done in a lab, but the ability to test on the spot and fast is being developed quickly.
Governments understand the importance of testing and it wouldn't surprise me if by summer, the ability to test quickly and on the spot is widespread. I suspect this is the next step in government response.
BTW. If a girl has already had it, she becomes the perfect WG at an FKK. She generally can't get it again and can't spread it to anyone again (assuming covid behaves like most viruses).
Also, sex with a face mask seems dumb. Most infections are caused by touching something that then gets into a your mouth, eye or nose. Can't very well have sex without touching. You can shower afterwards but I would assume you would get it if she had it. However, your genitalia is not really spreading respiratory disease and it doesn't take it in. I mean, how many times have you gotten a blowjob from a girl with a cold and not gotten a cold.
[QUOTE=DenHaag;2442764]Thank you so much for the reply Sirioja. You do not joke in my opinion. Paris Texas is indeed a great movie. It is make believe. Paris Arkansas and Berlin New Jersey really exist. This is no joke. You make faux-pas[/QUOTE]Hmm, having been in University in Texas, I'm familial with the city of Paris Texas. Oops. Search Maps on your smart phone. It will show up North East of Dallas.
I have read your posts on Avigan to treat COVID-19. The USA has started testing of Avigan as a treatment 2 days ago. It was interesting to read that the drug was approved I Japan as an Influenza anti-viral but stockpiled by the government and not released to pharmacies for issue.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2442854]For sure, with no kissing, no good old BJ, no DATY, but masks for both, gloves for both and condom, real erotic, sensual plastic sex, today I was right to prepare bicycle, more enjoyable to rub my balls on seat.[/QUOTE]Oh so you are allowed to do sport outside in Paris?
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2442852]Are you serious? Putting mask for sex in brothels, just ridiculous, when many guys ask for sex without condom. Girls don't tell you about? I m only sure about one thing, brothels are risky for health, why Germany made new law, even not really working, but when Italy extend to 3 May, France extend now to 11 May and restaurants, hotels, discotheques wil stay closed until at least mid July. If Germany which seem to manage quite well virus at the moment, allow paid sex soon, then they will have many very bad cases with old, fat, and from other diseases. They should then compete very fast with US. Guys who are not sure to be strongly healthy, should stay away, same if they have fragile relatives and don't want to lose them. New risky world now in FKK land.[/QUOTE]You can be fit + healthy and catch the virus without any obvious symptoms. The only possible way is immunity, if that really works.
Can the Admin perhaps create a separate thread for Coronavirus discussions and move all the posts to it --thus leaving this to the discussion of FKKs, girls and pay6?
I come to this forum to relax, not to discuss what I can do in the comments section of the Guardian or any newspaper!
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2442936]Yes. Some forms of sex games won't be safe. It is a bit at anyone's own risk. Similar risk exists in disco-dance clubs, if the dancers are starting to tongue-kiss, right? Similar risks exists in massage parlors (real ones), hair cutters, physio-therapists, etc.[/QUOTE]Brothels were already risky about Chlamydia which is really not good for wives about pregnancy, or some other diseases, not even telling once more about HIV when AO, but will be Russian roulette now if You are not protected versus virus. Best protection will be to have recovered from, because who can know when vaccine will be efficient, when many problems in France about grippe vaccine. If no self protection, I don t see how can protect for sex, then can catch and even give to relatives. In France, we are confined until 11 May and we have a problem, not even telling about economic crisis and unemployment, but only less than 15% people were in contact with virus and about 5% only are considered as protected from recovering, this meaning so many people can still catch it after 4 weeks confined, when risk start to be under control when 60% were in contact, so we are very far to be able to control virus, but just able to try to save life and some who arrive in hospitals, nobody was refused in France, have lungs destroyed by virus and doctors can't do anything, only to give them pills for pain when they can't anymore breathe.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2442945]Hmm, having been in University in Texas, I'm familial with the city of Paris Texas. Oops. Search Maps on your smart phone. It will show up North East of Dallas.
I have read your posts on Avigan to treat COVID-19. The USA has started testing of Avigan as a treatment 2 days ago. It was interesting to read that the drug was approved I Japan as an Influenza anti-viral but stockpiled by the government and not released to pharmacies for issue.[/QUOTE]Avigan can only work for mild symptom, but better than nothing and Japan is giving out for free.
Till vaccines comes out, it may help a bit, hopefully. I hear it is expected to take about 1. 5 years for vaccines to be invented. Will world economy and FKK owners cash flow last for that long?
What are FKK cost when it is closed. Around 20 employees like reception, security etc. Property tax or rent if they are renting place etc. Maybe many new ownership to FKK after this crisis.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2442993]Oh so you are allowed to do sport outside in Paris?[/QUOTE]No it's not. It's only allowed if you stay around your home (max. 1 km) for maximum one hour.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;2443007]You can be fit + healthy and catch the virus without any obvious symptoms. The only possible way is immunity, if that really works.[/QUOTE]Just like STD, but never caught anything in FKK.
[QUOTE=Jonodiera;2442942]I think the key is testing. Once you can test enough people daily, and I mean like 10% of the population per day so that you can quarantine everyone that gets sick right away, you should be able to get the R0 rate (average number of people each infected person infects) below 1 and the amount of cases will remain under control. You also need to be able to test for antibodies so that some people can be excluded from testing and just go on with life. FKKs will need to have a way to test all their girls and clients. I think this is the trick to FKKs being able to convince the government that they are not causing harm by spreading coronavirus. Today, testing needs to be done in a lab, but the ability to test on the spot and fast is being developed quickly.
Governments understand the importance of testing and it wouldn't surprise me if by summer, the ability to test quickly and on the spot is widespread. I suspect this is the next step in government response.
BTW. If a girl has already had it, she becomes the perfect WG at an FKK. She generally can't get it again and can't spread it to anyone again (assuming covid behaves like most viruses).
Also, sex with a face mask seems dumb. Most infections are caused by touching something that then gets into a your mouth, eye or nose. Can't very well have sex without touching. You can shower afterwards but I would assume you would get it if she had it. However, your genitalia is not really spreading respiratory disease and it doesn't take it in. I mean, how many times have you gotten a blowjob from a girl with a cold and not gotten a cold.[/QUOTE]There will be major cluster infections at hospital if you do that. It is important to stay home, close your eyes, imagine the time you had in FKK, use your imagination well for once and make good use of your right hand LOL!
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2443037]Can the Admin perhaps create a separate thread for Coronavirus discussions and move all the posts to it --thus leaving this to the discussion of FKKs, girls and pay6?
I come to this forum to relax, not to discuss what I can do in the comments section of the Guardian or any newspaper![/QUOTE]This is true so please Mr. Sebastiane could you help people like me who come to this forum to relax by telling us your current experiences in FKK clubs in Germany now?
One possible idea is for FKK's at first to only use their outdoor areas to placate to government rules. Many have huts and cabins and people could just stay outside maybe under tent structures for shade, eating, drinking then pick out the girl and go to the hut with her. Hopefully if need be they can do this and get this shit going again.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2442993]Oh so you are allowed to do sport outside in Paris?[/QUOTE]I have no pleasure to bicycle in bois de Boulogne among prostitutes, and along Seine is really beautiful but not climby enough for me, I need to enjoy my beautiful mountains to be motivated. I just prepare my best Summer pleasure, to forget no ski so big frustration, killing mood, no desire to go to fuck escorts. I also listen to music, you should listen to Bowie funny it's no game from ashes to ashes, when he played with Carlos Alomar and Earl Slick, it was before great Turkish Erdal Kizilcay and Gail Ann Dorsey, for daddy, as they joked. Also Led Zeppelin with legendary Jimi Paige and forever, since I learned to play football, Californian Toto with family Porcaro, 3 brothers playing, pity Jeff who was the boss, but died at only 38 from cocaine, but they are with me, since St George and the dragon, for 42 years, I m faithful for everything, like for WGs. Other kind of pleasures, far from my huge week end datcha.
[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2443199]One possible idea is for FKK's at first to only use their outdoor areas to placate to government rules. Many have huts and cabins and people could just stay outside maybe under tent structures for shade, eating, drinking then pick out the girl and go to the hut with her. Hopefully if need be they can do this and get this shit going again.[/QUOTE]And one girl infected will kill how many old, fat, diabetic, tired heart, smoker?
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;2443007]You can be fit + healthy and catch the virus without any obvious symptoms. The only possible way is immunity, if that really works.[/QUOTE]Everybody and even children can catch it, even tigers in NYC zoo, but being fit, healthy, not smoker will help to survive. To my opinion, old, fat and not healthy will now play Russian roulettes in brothels, when will be impossible to blood test everybody and other tests, most from China, are not reliable. Best safety is to have recovered from.
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2443037]Can the Admin perhaps create a separate thread for Coronavirus discussions and move all the posts to it --thus leaving this to the discussion of FKKs, girls and pay6?
I come to this forum to relax, not to discuss what I can do in the comments section of the Guardian or any news-paper![/QUOTE][QUOTE=Turgid;2443097]This is true so please Mr. Sebastiane could you help people like me who come to this forum to relax by telling us your current experiences in FKK clubs in Germany now?[/QUOTE]Please spare true members any bogus confrontation which is so not good. It is as Mr. Trump says "fake news". We know. Why not just send private message to Admin and request for a separate thread for Coronavirus? Why drama? No need. If nuclear bomb were about to fall on planet and FKK closed, some sad guy would be writing about it here even though only 5 seconds to live remaining. Same with virus talk with no finish. Ridiculous. Boring. But yes, separate Coronavirus thread is needed for all of ISG. To keep this chat in one place. Just like safe sex thread for all ISG. This would be so perfect.
Another theory, as put forth by the Washington Post: [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/[/URL].
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2443204]I have no pleasure to bicycle in bois de Boulogne among prostitutes, and along Seine is really beautiful but not climby enough for me, I need to enjoy my beautiful mountains to be motivated. I just prepare my best Summer pleasure, to forget no ski so big frustration, killing mood, no desire to go to fuck escorts. I also listen to music, you should listen to Bowie funny it's no game from ashes to ashes, when he played with Carlos Alomar and Earl Slick, it was before great Turkish Erdal Kizilcay and Gail Ann Dorsey, for daddy, as they joked. Also Led Zeppelin with legendary Jimi Paige and forever, since I learned to play football, Californian Toto with family Porcaro, 3 brothers playing, pity Jeff who was the boss, but died at only 38 from cocaine, but they are with me, since St George and the dragon, for 42 years, I m faithful for everything, like for WGs. Other kind of pleasures, far from my huge week end datcha.[/QUOTE]My song for the moment, from Toto: girl goodbye.
[QUOTE=DenHaag;2443233]Please spare true members any bogus confrontation which is so not good. It is as Mr. Trump says "fake news". We know. Why not just send private message to Admin and request for a separate thread for Coronavirus? Why drama? No need. If nuclear bomb were about to fall on planet and FKK closed, some sad guy would be writing about it here even though only 5 seconds to live remaining. Same with virus talk with no finish. Ridiculous. Boring. But yes, separate Coronavirus thread is needed for all of ISG. To keep this chat in one place. Just like safe sex thread for all ISG. This would be so perfect.[/QUOTE]Do you have new interesting experience to tell us about FKK at the moment? More interesting than how virus is impacting all over the world with so many deaths and unemployed, some in US or Italy who don t have to eat. At the moment, virus interest me more than brohels, much more interesting than prostitutes. Since a while, I m discovering I m able to live without sex, I waited to go to a Russian escort to be able to re start my job, needing 2 weeks, and again 2 weeks since then. Now I m preparing my mind for my Summer tour, also more interesting than brothels for me, and my girls know they can t compete with ski and bicycle. Will be so happy to see my Dolomiti friends, Im happy they are safe.
I'm not saying that cvirus its not dangerous.
It s especially for middle aged and old men.
I m 55 from Italy.
But right now I smell the same stink when HIV outbreaks in '80.
They said you can catch from a kiss from, from a lick etc.
Instead the top danger is from a transfusion or at the dentist.
Now everyone knows that the most dangerous is a bareback sodomitation, for the receivers.
So poisoned my best fucking years.
Austria will be out soon, maybe restart FKK in July, but for sure not for Italy.
Italy not have FKK, only lousy ***** in apartments.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2442993]Oh so you are allowed to do sport outside in Paris?[/QUOTE]Going outside to make sport is now, since about 1 week, forbidden in Paris and close west suburb, from 10 am to 7 pm. And doctors tell when making sport, better to stay about 8 meters away from others, when you see crowded Central Park or Hyde Park. After 1 month confined, would have saved about 3000 life when would be 16000 deaths today. And hundreds billions € lost or spent. How will it be paid? Because somebody always have to pay at the end. FKK are only second ranking thinking. Even before virus, no pleasure for sport in Paris, among cars, I prefer my friends marmots, they are so fat on Summer.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2443334]Going outside to make sport is now, since about 1 week, forbidden in Paris and close west suburb, from 10 am to 7 pm. And doctors tell when making sport, better to stay about 8 meters away from others, when you see crowded Central Park or Hyde Park. After 1 month confined, would have saved about 3000 life when would be 16000 deaths today. And hundreds billions lost or spent. How will it be paid? Because somebody always have to pay at the end. FKK are only second ranking thinking. Even before virus, no pleasure for sport in Paris, among cars, I prefer my friends marmots, they are so fat on Summer.[/QUOTE]It is like prison literally.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2443204]I have no pleasure to bicycle in bois de Boulogne among prostitutes, and along Seine is really beautiful but not climby enough for me, I need to enjoy my beautiful mountains to be motivated. I just prepare my best Summer pleasure, to forget no ski so big frustration, killing mood, no desire to go to fuck escorts. I also listen to music, you should listen to Bowie funny it's no game from ashes to ashes, when he played with Carlos Alomar and Earl Slick, it was before great Turkish Erdal Kizilcay and Gail Ann Dorsey, for daddy, as they joked. Also Led Zeppelin with legendary Jimi Paige and forever, since I learned to play football, Californian Toto with family Porcaro, 3 brothers playing, pity Jeff who was the boss, but died at only 38 from cocaine, but they are with me, since St George and the dragon, for 42 years, I m faithful for everything, like for WGs. Other kind of pleasures, far from my huge week end datcha.[/QUOTE]Datcha as in russian second house retreat like with sauna?
Bicycle, you often take your bicycle to your FKK trip right? You got stamina, you drive, bike and fuck and sleep in car over weekend for your FKK trip and you are back in office on Monday?
From next week, Germany is going to start relaxing the lockdown very slowly. [URL]https://www.thelocal.de/20200415/latest-germany-to-begin-easing-coronavirus-curbs-in-coming-weeks[/URL] It's a small start with openings staged like schools on May 4.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2443414]Datcha as in russian second house retreat like with sauna?
Bicycle, you often take your bicycle to your FKK trip right? You got stamina, you drive, bike and fuck and sleep in car over weekend for your FKK trip and you are back in office on Monday?[/QUOTE]I don't bicycle more in Germany than in Paris, because not interesting, but I remember driving from Dusseldorf to French Alps or Mont Ventoux, more than 1000 kms, through Switzerland, at night, to climb on next day, since nearly 10 years, I m afraid to sleep, I relax and rest more full speeding. Sometimes, I sleep few seconds, micro sleep, under BJ, I remember one at World, when I took her at 3 am, asking me: you don't like? I liked, she made me rest for few seconds. But when you don't sleep, you have more time to live.
Here you will find a quick overview (in German) of the current status: [URL]https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/politik-inland/lockerungs-plan-der-bundesregierung-so-legt-deutschland-langsam-wieder-los-70068100.bild.html[/URL].
I'm encouraged by the fact that brothels seem to be treated quite similarly to bars, discos, clubs etc and are for the time being closed until May 3. This means the restrictions will be reviewed every two to three weeks, and possibly also on a state by state basis. I am almost certain they will be closed for longer than May 3. , but at least they have not been banned until August 31, as has happened with concerts, festivals and other large events.
Of course, another current obstacle for us non-Germans will be the travel restrictions and restrictions of hotel bookings for tourist purposes. Even if these start to get eased off somewhat, one may still be subject to two weeks of self-quarantine upon arrival in Germany and / or when returning home.
We'll just have to wait and see. The positive thing from yesterday is that (currently at least) we are not seeing a ban on FKKs until end of summer and beyond.
Finally, Japan acknowledges the reality. I know Mr Ho was proud of his country but the reality is that no one is immune and it is better to tackle this virus earlier than later. Japan is not fully locking down as we did in some places in the West. Perhaps they will do so eventually. But cases are growing fast, and they will find even more positive infections as they ramp their testing.
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-to-declare-nationwide-state-of-emergency-11587027219?mod=hp_lead_pos3[/URL]
[QUOTE=KelVarnsen;2443646]Here you will find a quick overview (in German) of the current status: [URL]https://www.bild.de/politik/inland/politik-inland/lockerungs-plan-der-bundesregierung-so-legt-deutschland-langsam-wieder-los-70068100.bild.html[/URL].
I'm encouraged by the fact that brothels seem to be treated quite similarly to bars, discos, clubs etc and are for the time being closed until May 3. This means the restrictions will be reviewed every two to three weeks, and possibly also on a state by state basis. I am almost certain they will be closed for longer than May 3. , but at least they have not been banned until August 31, as has happened with concerts, festivals and other large events.
Of course, another current obstacle for us non-Germans will be the travel restrictions and restrictions of hotel bookings for tourist purposes. Even if these start to get eased off somewhat, one may still be subject to two weeks of self-quarantine upon arrival in Germany and / or when returning home.
We'll just have to wait and see. The positive thing from yesterday is that (currently at least) we are not seeing a ban on FKKs until end of summer and beyond.[/QUOTE]Yes, it does seem by some point in May / June we should be back to normal as far as FKKs are concerned.
I just read an interesting article about the resurgence of COVID-19 in Japan. It compared the initial success to that of South Korea (ROK). Continuing it highlighted the difference between ROK and Japan. ROK has maintained an aggressive testing campaign and Japan has been conducting minimal testing. In ROK the elections were dominated by the party that controlled the COVID-19 response. I read in Japan a nation wide state of emergency has been declared. Interestingly, in the US news the story Mr Ho told of the virus escaping from the Wuhan Lab is being echoed. Hmmm.
On another note, this virus doesn't care about your health, how many miles you drive to cycle 20000 km per year and ski down 10000 km vertical elevation. It can get into your system, on your clothes, in your car and jump off to numerous people who may cross your path. Remember the ancient Chinese concept, Six degrees of separation. Yes, I know, Hollywood has stolen it, bands have stolen it. But it is Chinese. I'm the fat, American, with diabetes, high blood pressure, heart failure. I'm also the guy who would go to a club and spend 3 hours in the room with Kitty 3 days after having angioplasty. Yes, I had to take some breaks but I didn't mind paying for the time with her, and I feel a bit sorry for the fellows who had to wait.
Will the German and Dutch clients who meet the same description as me return to GT, absolutely, and I will join them. We will be welcomed back by management and the ladies. GT is familiar with the procedure to call the wagon to pick up the tote.
Speaking of GT ladies, I forgot to mention Kate in my top sessions there, and also at Velbert. She did something no other lady had done. While I was giving her my best, she reached for my arm and guided my hand to her throat. Shortly after she washed my dick and balls with her orgasmus. Whoever taught her this, thank you.
Maybe brothels which are mostly Romanian business, with big money leaving Germany to Romania, are not major point at the moment in Germany, even they manage quite well, but would they be able to manage spreading in brothels land, with a girl fucked more than 5 times per day, with guys from Asia, even EU borders should be closed for months.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2443741]I just read an interesting article about the resurgence of COVID-19 in Japan. It compared the initial success to that of South Korea (ROK). Continuing it highlighted the difference between ROK and Japan. ROK has maintained an aggressive testing campaign and Japan has been conducting minimal testing. In ROK the elections were dominated by the party that controlled the COVID-19 response. I read in Japan a nation wide state of emergency has been declared. Interestingly, in the US news the story Mr Ho told of the virus escaping from the Wuhan Lab is being echoed. Hmmm.
On another note, this virus doesn't care about your health, how many miles you drive to cycle 20000 km per year and ski down 10000 km vertical elevation. It can get into your system, on your clothes, in your car and jump off to numerous people who may cross your path. Remember the ancient Chinese concept, Six degrees of separation. Yes, I know, Hollywood has stolen it, bands have stolen it. But it is Chinese. I'm the fat, American, with diabetes, high blood pressure, heart failure. I'm also the guy who would go to a club and spend 3 hours in the room with Kitty 3 days after having angioplasty. Yes, I had to take some breaks but I didn't mind paying for the time with her, and I feel a bit sorry for the fellows who had to wait.
Will the German and Dutch clients who meet the same description as me return to GT, absolutely, and I will join them. We will be welcomed back by management and the ladies. GT is familiar with the procedure to call the wagon to pick up the tote..[/QUOTE]Well, one thing Japan failed is that we did not block foreign visitors till like around March including Chinese visitors. As for lock down we cannot force people here, but we have about 70 to 80 % less movement of people according to google and yahoo using their GPS system. Plus we need to secure cash to secure employments people around world as we have mega companies who employ millions of people around world, and corona also kill people financially, so keeping these mega companies alive is also important to save lives and keep world moving during global lock down. So we do balanced lock down.
As for medicine, we have avigan that is made by fuji film Japan and it is working on mild symptom people, but we are saving it for later in most cases till patients are admitted into hospital and we don't take everyone in to protect medical infrastructure. We are giving avigan for free including to Germany as they requested, it is in mass production now and it is ready to be shipped to around 20 nations so far for free in May.
As for test, we don't test everyone as it will only cause people to rush to hospitals and lead to cluster infections and eventually death and destruction of medical infrastructure. However, we strongly focus on avoiding death as we can save people by acting properly, which include not testing everyone as they request, but make them stay home.
As for lab, I still believe it is leaked or some kind of misconduct of dead testing animal body after lab use in Wuhan, there is lab near fish market there. Of course it is not deliberate, Chinese government is not crazy as doing such thing on purpose. But their rapid movements in south China sea is still going on and our submarine and battle ships has to deployed, so they are provoking during this crisis too especially after one of US air craft carrier has been disabled with corona infection.
Japan still are more or less normal beside now most shops and restaurants are closed and apparently Japanese government is giving about 1000 USD per person with no condition, so that is good news, it is almost two FKK days for me, it is ashamed FKK is closed to spend that 1000 USD on fucking German or Romanian beautiful girls to pump up my immune system LOL!
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2443703]Finally, Japan acknowledges the reality. I know Mr Ho was proud of his country but the reality is that no one is immune and it is better to tackle this virus earlier than later. Japan is not fully locking down as we did in some places in the West. Perhaps they will do so eventually. But cases are growing fast, and they will find even more positive infections as they ramp their testing.
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-to-declare-nationwide-state-of-emergency-11587027219?mod=hp_lead_pos3[/URL][/QUOTE]No country is above, US and UK are down under virus. I'm sad for my country when we will be much over 20000, with so many unemployed and economy will be down under. If I could, I would go on 3500 meters high Girose glacier on top of La Grave La Meije, would make a hole in snow, would go in and stay there, at least wonderful there. I miss so much not being there on this Winter, my paradise.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2443235]Another theory, as put forth by the Washington Post: [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2443703]Finally, Japan acknowledges the reality. I know Mr Ho was proud of his country but the reality is that no one is immune and it is better to tackle this virus earlier than later. Japan is not fully locking down as we did in some places in the West. Perhaps they will do so eventually. But cases are growing fast, and they will find even more positive infections as they ramp their testing.
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/japans-abe-to-declare-nationwide-state-of-emergency-11587027219?mod=hp_lead_pos3[/URL][/QUOTE]Well, the reality is the situation here is actually fine, man I live here LOL. Shops are closed and restaurants are closed mostly, but rest are almost as it was beside much less people on the street. But let see how it will turn out, we had this since January from China longer than west, and we are doing much better, I mean look at the mess in some western nations, it is crazy.
Again, we cannot fully lock down, it is democratic nation here, we cannot force people to stay home legally, but we can legally ask and disciplined as Japanese are, we are more or less following.
Travel the world once this is over and know the world, and don't just swallow media. When fukushima happened, many western media were reporting people were coughing blood in Tokyo. Nobody was coughing blood in Tokyo or even in fukushima LOL, day after fukushima, I went and bought new computers I remember LOL.
Western media are trying to put the eyes on other nations for their mess up, I mean look at New York, it is war zone now if what I am seeing about their hospitals on their own media are true. Also Spain, Italy etc. Italy do not deserve to be in G7 after this, they do not have infrastructure to be in G7. For the record I love Italy.
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2443738]Yes, it does seem by some point in May / June we should be back to normal as far as FKKs are concerned.[/QUOTE]Anyway EU borders should be closed for months. If FKK can really reopen soon, I doubt for quite soon because risky places, when Germans don t give enough and not big money enough business, some Asian hunters should miss their easy business. Wait and see for what will be FKK future. On 13/14 March, Sharks reminded me a bit what it was on 2014/2015, even not same level for looks, but I was lucky to see German Tabea just starting and initiate her for her first room at Sharks, for 1 full hour, kissing all along, with a bad guy like me. Long time, I didn't have such enjoyment at Sharks, even had already 2 high level rooms on this year, 1 with real woman Vivien, but too professional for a little terror in bed as she said, when Tabea was so fresh behavior for sex, not a German robot, kind of Romanian passion. My pleasure to pay for this level.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2443817]Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.[/QUOTE]When will be much more than 100.000 deaths in US and Western Europe, when we receive tests which are for 60% not reliable, in France a 16 yo girl was tested twice negative in hospital, but died from covid, UK received 3,5 millions tests not reliable, for our safety, for our health, for our standards of quality and reliability, for our economy, maybe Western world should think very fast not to be anymore so dependent about East, when we really don t have same standards. Only Japan is on our standards for quality even different culture and way of life. Same like in brothels, cheap is expensive for me when low quality. A GND for 50 is more expensive for me than a wow for more than 50 . Of course, many WGs are happy with East level, for big money easy business, not caring much about virus, but they are out of real life, this is not a real job, just for fast money.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2443817]Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.[/QUOTE]I think the CCP intentionally let the virus escape outside of China (not inside) because they knew it was going to be a massive problem for the country and at least if the rest of the world had it to, it would level the playing field.
Germany's border is still open for dutch and belgian. I personally find this totally nuts. It shows that the good numbers are not driven by great politicians, but simply by luck, and great testing.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2443899]Anyway EU borders should be closed for months. If FKK can really reopen soon, I doubt for quite soon because risky places, when Germans don t give enough and not big money enough business, some Asian hunters should miss their easy business. Wait and see for what will be FKK future. On 13/14 March, Sharks reminded me a bit what it was on 2014/2015, even not same level for looks, but I was lucky to see German Tabea just starting and initiate her for her first room at Sharks, for 1 full hour, kissing all along, with a bad guy like me. Long time, I didn't have such enjoyment at Sharks, even had already 2 high level rooms on this year, 1 with real woman Vivien, but too professional for a little terror in bed as she said, when Tabea was so fresh behavior for sex, not a German robot, kind of Romanian passion. My pleasure to pay for this level.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MrHo;2443845]Well, the reality is the situation here is actually fine, man I live here LOL. Shops are closed and restaurants are closed mostly, but rest are almost as it was beside much less people on the street. But let see how it will turn out, we had this since January from China longer than west, and we are doing much better, I mean look at the mess in some western nations, it is crazy.
Again, we cannot fully lock down, it is democratic nation here, we cannot force people to stay home legally, but we can legally ask and disciplined as Japanese are, we are more or less following.
Travel the world once this is over and know the world, and don't just swallow media. When fukushima happened, many western media were reporting people were coughing blood in Tokyo. Nobody was coughing blood in Tokyo or even in fukushima LOL, day after fukushima, I went and bought new computers I remember LOL.
Western media are trying to put the eyes on other nations for their mess up, I mean look at New York, it is war zone now if what I am seeing about their hospitals on their own media are true. Also Spain, Italy etc. Italy do not deserve to be in G7 after this, they do not have infrastructure to be in G7. For the record I love Italy.[/QUOTE]I have traveled to Japan, Mr. Ho. Not this year, but in my lifetime, yes. BTW, you say don't trust the media reports and then you say "look at NY! It is a war zone, Spain, Italy, etc". Did you travel to those countries this year, or are your comments based on what you read in media?
Japan per capita GDP is only 10% higher than Italy, per World Bank. Perhaps you don't trust World Bank also, because you may not trust any source that does not show Japan at the top. UK and France are richer than Japan on per capita GDP, Germany is 20% higher than Japan, and US is 50% higher. I can give you the link if you want to see it yourself.
Anyway, it is good to know that life feels normal to you in Japan. We do not wish them any bad things, Americans feel Japan is an ally.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2443817]Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.[/QUOTE]If you were then maybe yes, but I think Chinese government and riches that belong to them will begin to buy out weaken foreign companies once this crisis is over.
Plus Chinese navy is making rapid moves now in south China sea especially after one of US aircraft carrier is taken out by corona virus.
Chinese government is part of so called red team, so they only see weakness as opportunity.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2443845]Well, the reality is the situation here is actually fine, man I live here LOL. Shops are closed and restaurants are closed mostly, but rest are almost as it was beside much less people on the street. But let see how it will turn out, we had this since January from China longer than west, and we are doing much better, I mean look at the mess in some western nations, it is crazy.
Again, we cannot fully lock down, it is democratic nation here, we cannot force people to stay home legally, but we can legally ask and disciplined as Japanese are, we are more or less following.
Travel the world once this is over and know the world, and don't just swallow media. When fukushima happened, many western media were reporting people were coughing blood in Tokyo. Nobody was coughing blood in Tokyo or even in fukushima LOL, day after fukushima, I went and bought new computers I remember LOL.
Western media are trying to put the eyes on other nations for their mess up, I mean look at New York, it is war zone now if what I am seeing about their hospitals on their own media are true. Also Spain, Italy etc. Italy do not deserve to be in G7 after this, they do not have infrastructure to be in G7. For the record I love Italy.[/QUOTE]Ho,
Most powerful country is not Japan, but US and they are down under virus, unemployment and misery for many. My meaning is no country is above, not even my country. In France, doctors use chloroquine and pills used for HIV to try to save worst cases, we have free beds, the highest level medical equipment, I would not go in any other country for medical level, nevertheless, unfortunately, every day too many people die from covid in french hospitals and doctors can t save them. 80 % are more than 70 and for others, 67% had health problems. In my opinion, except maybe Germany, but all others in G7 are losing the war. Italy were first, US don t manage better, no competition, but big defeat with so many deaths. Only interesting point for me is virus show how is society in our country. To defeat this virus, society is more important than medical level and pills.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2443944]Germany's border is still open for dutch and belgian. I personally find this totally nuts. It shows that the good numbers are not driven by great politicians, but simply by luck, and great testing.[/QUOTE]Small Belgium have more than 5000 deaths now, for 11 millions people, versus less than 5000 in big Germany. More 3000 in NL. This is Europe. My meaning was borders should stay closed for a while between Europe and outside.
Under pressure, China found many more deaths and I m sure they should find more.
Ten to fifteen times more, probably.
The German authorities seem to be confident that they have things under control. I hope they are right, and that things remain under control in FKKland. One step closer to getting back to our "hobby".
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2443817]Ya lahwy! If I were the Chinese government right now I would be soo embarrassed. I would feel like the guy who let his trash blow out over everybody else's lawn.[/QUOTE]Or as half-Chinese Gordon Chang puts it in an interview recently: They decided to use it as a weapon in order to level the financial playing field after they first saw how badly it had hit themselves.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2443978]Ho,
Most powerful country is not Japan, but US and they are down under virus, unemployment and misery for many. My meaning is no country is above, not even my country. In France, doctors use chloroquine and pills used for HIV to try to save worst cases, we have free beds, the highest level medical equipment, I would not go in any other country for medical level, nevertheless, unfortunately, every day too many people die from covid in french hospitals and doctors can t save them. 80 % are more than 70 and for others, 67% had health problems. In my opinion, except maybe Germany, but all others in G7 are losing the war. Italy were first, US don t manage better, no competition, but big defeat with so many deaths. Only interesting point for me is virus show how is society in our country. To defeat this virus, society is more important than medical level and pills.[/QUOTE]I know USA is the most powerful nation in the world. And Japan and USA are best friend. I think at least G7 should get along on intellectual manner because most nations are on same level on intellect, manner, culture, civilization, technology, medical etc. But we all are different as well.
Japan do not have this white western ego of invading world, we tend to be more team player than west, but west tend to have attitude most of time, and we most have to time adjust the behavior.
For Medic in G7, Japan, Germany and USA has the most of pharma and medical equipment companies that are top notch, but we all sell and collaborate with each other, so hospital levels are all similar level with similar equipment, it is just that some nations are more organized than others, which showed in this case. Japan focused on death rate, not so much on infection rate which is hard to control, but death we can control by protecting medical system and let those who can be fixed to stay home with medication like Avigan made by Fuji film Japan.
Avigan works for first 6 weeks of symptom so far, but it is not medicine made for this, it was made for bird influenza, so bat is close.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2443948]I have traveled to Japan, Mr. Ho. Not this year, but in my lifetime, yes. BTW, you say don't trust the media reports and then you say "look at NY! It is a war zone, Spain, Italy, etc". Did you travel to those countries this year, or are your comments based on what you read in media?
Japan per capita GDP is only 10% higher than Italy, per World Bank. Perhaps you don't trust World Bank also, because you may not trust any source that does not show Japan at the top. UK and France are richer than Japan on per capita GDP, Germany is 20% higher than Japan, and US is 50% higher. I can give you the link if you want to see it yourself.
Anyway, it is good to know that life feels normal to you in Japan. We do not wish them any bad things, Americans feel Japan is an ally.[/QUOTE]USA is out biggest and best ally and this will be so forever.
Look, Japan, USA, Germany are the biggest countries by far with our structures of the nation, we cover all major areas of industries from medical, technologies to even fashion to whatever you want to name and when it comes to Nobel award, we are the only Asian nation who keep on winning Nobel award is most prestigious area which is chemistry and physics. However, if you are in G5 nations before G7, these G5 nations are most civilized even though we have different culture.
It is not all GDP, it is just number, if you believe G7 is just GDP, then you need to wake up little bit with propaganda. G7 is not just GDP as they claim it is. Don't believe in all things they throw at you. Look, with your logic, China would be in G7 long time ago, but there is reason why China is not in G7. Either way, only nation which is bigger capacity than Japan is USA and it will always will be and it should be USA who is king of this world. China is big, but it is just a size, quantity, but no quality.
Italy is good country, I love their food, culture and people, I traveled from calabria in south to few cities in north for holiday, but not this year, do I have to go to these nations every year, if I don't go you use it as your argument point? LOL USA too, I been to many cities in USA both east and west and even sedona Arizona and Utah etc. For holiday, but man again do I have to go every year? This year I went to doha, Budapest and zurich and yes it was good my dick getting sucked LOL!
Don't believe in everything that is written, we are fine so far and we had this much longer than you since China is right next to us, but that does not mean it is going to be OK and we are trying to prepare ourselves with best of our abilities, but expecting difficult time ahead, I hope we are going to be OK, but we are not so hopeful.
And hey, be kind to Japan, it is a small nation in far east that rose to be top nation bigger than most beside USA with our intellect, hard work, team work, good quality, creativity, and most importantly honest among other things, we did not build all these mega companies for no solid reason as good intelligent nation. In Europe, German has similar structure to Japan, they also cover most area of industries, some they are bigger, but in most we are bigger whether it is banks, fashion or whatever. Let see, now Japan we going to open door to immigration, something we did not do till recently, we studied from European mistakes, so let see if immigration will work out fine with Japan in few decades time, we try to choose more carefully than Europe, arguably LOL.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2444054]The German authorities seem to be confident that they have things under control. I hope they are right, and that things remain under control in FKKland. One step closer to getting back to our "hobby".[/QUOTE]For any country, it is hard to control infection rate, I mean only thing fed can do is ask or force people to stay home which they have done, but some entities has to go on like infrastructure related companies, mega companies, transportation etc.
But we can control the death rate by not destroying medical infrastructure and also having good hospital to begin with. There are very few nations who can cope with such sudden required production of medical equipment like life supporting system, artificial lung system etc. Only nations with good high tech industries.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2444085]I know USA is the most powerful nation in the world. And Japan and USA are best friend. I think at least G7 should get along on intellectual manner because most nations are on same level on intellect, manner, culture, civilization, technology, medical etc. But we all are different as well.
Japan do not have this white western ego of invading world, we tend to be more team player than west, but west tend to have attitude most of time, and we most have to time adjust the behavior.
For Medic in G7, Japan, Germany and USA has the most of pharma and medical equipment companies that are top notch, but we all sell and collaborate with each other, so hospital levels are all similar level with similar equipment, it is just that some nations are more organized than others, which showed in this case. Japan focused on death rate, not so much on infection rate which is hard to control, but death we can control by protecting medical system and let those who can be fixed to stay home with medication like Avigan made by Fuji film Japan.
Avigan works for first 6 weeks of symptom so far, but it is not medicine made for this, it was made for bird influenza, so bat is close.[/QUOTE]But most powerful is not able to manage virus, with their town number 1 giving scary images to the world, with fridge trucks in streets, with Hart island for poor. I really don t wish them, because I would probably not be French without them, Europe might be very different without them, but I m afraid they could be over 50000 deaths, with so many poor who can t afford to go to hospital, keeping on working to have to eat, when unemployment is exploding there. When the most powerful is the worst since weeks. Of course, we won't compare to China, because I think everybody and our politics understood what kind of danger they can be. Have now to think about less dependence and more protection, we are not in same world. Virus is like miror for our society, much more than our medical level, and they are discovering in France, when 80% deaths are over 70 yo, and 67% under 70 had already health problems, but 50% of the worst cases under 70 are suffering obesity, even in France, more and more obese, eating on US way since they are child: MacDo for gift in foods, Cola, when we have best gastronomy in France, but US culture spreading in France, making more and more obese who are vulnerable to virus. This virus would not only kill fragile lungs, but could also infect blood for some cases when doctors didn't understand what happened for some quite young, seeming healthy, who died. I wish, if we lost, but at least could learn from what happen. As we say in sport, we learn more from a defeat than when we win.
So make the picture.
Austria and Germany quickly to a new normality.
And don t forget that Germany have a big Pharma industry for all the equipment e the vaccine.
For the hospital never had ICU problem.
So poor Italy, please don't censored this because I m Italian, with its lousy health system and politicians, e 1/3 of the country mafialand. Will be the first to entry in crisis and the last to exit.
For 1 or 2 years no more Italian customers in FKK.
Finally, US is seeking to investigate laboratory in Wuhan I have been saying from the beginning. I do not think it was deliberately leaked, but leaked by mistake due to misconduct.
It was originally french who helped Chinese to make this lab and french backed off, then Chinese just began running the lab themselves. If french stayed on to managed the plant, it would have been better managed lab, but let see if USA can prove that it was leaked. I don't think it will be opened to public though, they will just use it as a car for foreign affair negotiation against Chinese, which USA should do.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2444238]Finally, US is seeking to investigate laboratory in Wuhan I have been saying from the beginning. I do not think it was deliberately leaked, but leaked by mistake due to misconduct.
It was originally french who helped Chinese to make this lab and french backed off, then Chinese just began running the lab themselves. If french stayed on to managed the plant, it would have been better managed lab, but let see if USA can prove that it was leaked. I don't think it will be opened to public though, they will just use it as a car for foreign affair negotiation against Chinese, which USA should do.[/QUOTE]China claim US brought it, US claim other, don't believe all what is told or written, same than here. I just think now the world know China lied to protect their already falling economy and keeping on producing not reliable tests, with people tested negative and dying from covid. I think this is now time to protect versus lies, not to be so dependant about safety, health. We don t all have same standards and level for quality, reliability. Now, this is new world with virus working around, not so sure even having recovered will make full safe, even french doctors think to use plasma to cure. I think FKK land will now be risky playfield if you are not a survivor healthy warrior with no relatives, because when will reopen, even with EU borders closed for months, but such playfield to spread so fast and around when returning at home, but as I went to a escort under confined, but since more than 2 weeks now, I look if she is still available and I m happy for her she is, when she is only 19, too young to die from virus in Paris, as soon it will reopen, I will go to Germany, Switzerland, Austria which should open first, and Spain for Slavians. But better to know about risk for health, for relatives. Even with vaccine, if ever, if virus don t mutate before, just impossible for everybody but only risky people like versus grippe. But on the other hand, no need to be paranoiac, can die while sleeping. When I grew up, I read, I heard so much about US paranoia about what was behind the wall. Now we know, not because Russian women are much prettier and elegant than Americans, even despite Putin, but Russia is so much more interesting for culture, for a french like me, even I thank US to be a free French.
Salaam zusammen,
As you know it's been hard to know the fatality rate of Coronavirus, and the figures have been all over the place. Part of the problem is that they've only been testing people who show up in hospital with bad symptoms, so we don't know how many people in the general public are infected.
However, a recent study has shed some light on this:
[URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/santa-clara-coronavirus-infections-study/index.html[/URL]
According to scientists testing for antibodies, in Santa Clara county, on April 1 between 48,000 and 81,000 people were infected. That sounds huge, but the good news is that only 50 people had died. So that's a fatality rate of under 0. 1%. That's the same as the death rate for common flu.
If you are under 50, your risk probably goes down to 0. 01%. If you're under 30,0. 001%.
Why have the governments of the world been so slow to do studies like the Santa Clara one? Why have they been so slow to test in general? Why are they not being honest about the death rate? We all heard the 3. 4% figure, right? But it's not true.
I suspect that if young people knew how small the risks are to them, they would be much more reluctant to shutter up their restaurants, stop going to parties, etc. The lockdown would not seem justified.
But it's the elderly who make the decisions. I've said that the solution to the crisis is simply to quarantine the elderly. But politicians will not consider this option, because it means that they themselves will be isolated. Politicians have meetings all day, and their credibility rests on that. Do you think Donald Trump would agree to go into isolation and participate only by videoconferencing for the next year, while younger wolves asserted themselves physically in the White House? It's the same with all politicians. They are obsessed with power: that's how they got to where they are. So their attitude is: "If we go into isolation, everybody goes into isolation!" They won't loosen their grip for an instant.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2442488]
What you say might work, and I think there is a chance I already had this and my symptoms were very mild. However I will tell you that given the unpredictable nature of the symptoms, even I who is relatively young and quite physically fit would not risk deliberately getting this. I know people who have tested positive for it and recovered with relatively mild symptoms.[/QUOTE]Salaam Mr Indigo, I would ask you (and others) if you accept the statistics above, and if so do you still plan to curtail your mongering life? Me, I see no reason to. I will try to see how I can go on as normal. I continue to believe that sex is the healthiest physical activity there is. The long drought of sex is drying me out on the inside. I have to replenish my mojo.
I repeat that young women have very strong immune systems. Even if a WG got the virus, the chances are her system battled with it for one day, defeated it, produced antibodies, and she never even noticed this was going on because there were no symptoms.
Yes, 3. 4% is a shitty number. That even the WHO quoted. It was most stupid, to take just confirmed cases divid it by the death toll.
But no, the death rate is certainly nothing like a normal flu. There is one famous Heinsberg study in Germany, which was also quite thorough and here the numbers are more like 0. 4% - but you know that is still 10 x higher than severe flu. And that explains why they have a hard time carrying away dead bodies from certain hospitals, where it hit particular hard.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2444323]Salaam zusammen,
As you know it's been hard to know the fatality rate of Coronavirus, and the figures have been all over the place. Part of the problem is that they've only been testing people who show up in hospital with bad symptoms, so we don't know how many people in the general public are infected.
However, a recent study has shed some light on this:
[URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/santa-clara-coronavirus-infections-study/index.html[/URL]
According to scientists testing for antibodies, in Santa Clara county, on April 1 between 48,000 and 81,000 people were infected. That sounds huge, but the good news is that only 50 people had died. So that's a fatality rate of under 0. 1%. That's the same as the death rate for common flu.
If you are under 50, your risk probably goes down to 0. 01%. If you're under 30,0. 001%.
Why have the governments of the world been so slow to do studies like the Santa Clara one? Why have they been so slow to test in general? Why are they not being honest about the death rate? We all heard the 3. 4% figure, right? But it's not true.
[/QUOTE]
This Spahn-dude (health minister) is so full of shit. How dares he calls the epidemy under control or controllable? After a few days of stagnation? BTW: the latest daily infection numbers are already accelerating by 50%.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2444054]The German authorities seem to be confident that they have things under control. I hope they are right, and that things remain under control in FKKland. One step closer to getting back to our "hobby".[/QUOTE]
A) a constant daught / wind can reduce infection a lot:
In a recent german TV show (Maybrit Ilgner), [URL]https://youtu.be/5ulKfdHm5wU?t=1094[/URL] (exact position), Prof Drosten (Germany's most famous virologist) said something *super-important*:
Essentially if there is a constant draught, then the coronavirus would have a much less chance to settle.
B) an app, that could show someones personal risk score, based on the vicinity of folks one was with in the past 5 days, and whether those were infected or not.
Easy to create this draught, with ventilators in the rooms. Likely dehumidifiers might help too. If the air is dry, the aerosols will be killed.
And also easy to make the risk-score app mandatory for certain establishments. At the door the FKK-clubs, could simply say, that either mongers / girls need to show that they are immun or have a low risk score. Done.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2444323]Salaam zusammen,
As you know it's been hard to know the fatality rate of Coronavirus, and the figures have been all over the place. Part of the problem is that they've only been testing people who show up in hospital with bad symptoms, so we don't know how many people in the general public are infected.
However, a recent study has shed some light on this:
[URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/17/health/santa-clara-coronavirus-infections-study/index.html[/URL]
According to scientists testing for antibodies, in Santa Clara county, on April 1 between 48,000 and 81,000 people were infected. That sounds huge, but the good news is that only 50 people had died. So that's a fatality rate of under 0. 1%. That's the same as the death rate for common flu.
If you are under 50, your risk probably goes down to 0. 01%. If you're under 30,0. 001%.
Why have the governments of the world been so slow to do studies like the Santa Clara one? Why have they been so slow to test in general? Why are they not being honest about the death rate? We all heard the 3. 4% figure, right? But it's not true.
I suspect that if young people knew how small the risks are to them, they would be much more reluctant to shutter up their restaurants, stop going to parties, etc. The lockdown would not seem justified.[/QUOTE]I encourage the audience to read the above linked CNN article in full. You'll find that the doctor who oversaw this study is far more guarded in his language than Polyamorist, who with great eagerness thinks he has found validation for his government conspiracy theories. This study is preliminary and is not yet peer reviewed. The doctor also ends with a word of caution saying that "the flu and coronavirus are still quite different. For one, we don't yet have a vaccine for Covid-19.
Doctors suspect, though, and are still trying to prove beyond a doubt, that antibodies to Covid-19 mean one is immune down the line. " The latter remains open, and it's a significant question indeed.
Also, even if the death rate is scaled downward substantially as the result of wider, like testing, there's still a number of other problems associated with placing restrictions only on the elderly while allowing everyone else to get back to business as usual. Those are found in the below article. This is an idea that British considered but back off of for good reason.
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/03/heres-why-it-wont-work-just-isolate-elderly-vulnerable/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444299]China claim US brought it, US claim other, don't believe all what is told or written, same than here. I just think now the world know China lied to protect their already falling economy and keeping on producing not reliable tests, with people tested negative and dying from covid. I think this is now time to protect versus lies, not to be so dependant about safety, health. We don t all have same standards and level for quality, reliability. Now, this is new world with virus working around, not so sure even having recovered will make full safe, even french doctors think to use plasma to cure. I think FKK land will now be risky playfield if you are not a survivor healthy warrior with no relatives, because when will reopen, even with EU borders closed for months, but such playfield to spread so fast and around when returning at home, but as I went to a escort under confined, but since more than 2 weeks now, I look if she is still available and I m happy for her she is, when she is only 19, too young to die from virus in Paris, as soon it will reopen, I will go to Germany, Switzerland, Austria which should open first, and Spain for Slavians. But better to know about risk for health, for relatives. Even with vaccine, if ever, if virus don t mutate before, just impossible for everybody but only risky people like versus grippe. But on the other hand, no need to be paranoiac, can die while sleeping. When I grew up, I read, I heard so much about US paranoia about what was behind the wall. Now we know, not because Russian women are much prettier and elegant than Americans, even despite Putin, but Russia is so much more interesting for culture, for a french like me, even I thank US to be a free French.[/QUOTE]So called red team, north Korea, China and Russia, their governments are known to be not reliable for information, they openly lie even on the field of foreign affairs. This is nothing new, any educated people know about that. But many nations are like this also.
At least with in G7 nations we do not lie to each others and can have good dialogue to lead the world. G7 is not just GDP as they claim, then China would be in G7 long time ago.
Cities may reopen, but we are still depending on hope of weather of summer will fix it for now, so let see if that hope is right as for most virus weather to calm it down. Some are wondering about corona spread in warmer climate nations already, but let see.
Either way, we won't know the bottom of it unless USA decide to declare war, but I do not think so. Maybe in middle east again or possibly Iran, but with China, it will be third world war.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2444323]Why have the governments of the world been so slow to do studies like the Santa Clara one? Why have they been so slow to test in general? Why are they not being honest about the death rate? We all heard the 3. 4% figure, right? But it's not true.[/QUOTE]I believe there are now so many mutations of the virus that maybe there are both one version with 3-4% death rate, and another one with just 0. 1%. We simply do not know. An Icelandic scientist found 40 different mutations of the virus on Iceland alone!
In Italy it surely was well above 0. 1% in some areas for example. As the total number of deaths registered in one region quadrupled from one year ago in March. That means the corona virus mutation in that area killed 3 times as many people as all other causes of deaths combined. These are morgue statistics, and has nothing to do with testing. And in the later part of the timeframe there were even restrictions on movement, thus reducing things like the seasonal flu, driving accidents etc etc.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2444351]A) a constant daught / wind can reduce infection a lot:
In a recent german TV show (Maybrit Ilgner), [URL]https://youtu.be/5ulKfdHm5wU?t=1094[/URL] (exact position), Prof Drosten (Germany's most famous virologist) said something *super-important*:
Essentially if there is a constant draught, then the coronavirus would have a much less chance to settle.
B) an app, that could show someones personal risk score, based on the vicinity of folks one was with in the past 5 days, and whether those were infected or not.
Easy to create this draught, with ventilators in the rooms. Likely dehumidifiers might help too. If the air is dry, the aerosols will be killed.
And also easy to make the risk-score app mandatory for certain establishments. At the door the FKK-clubs, could simply say, that either mongers / girls need to show that they are immun or have a low risk score. Done.[/QUOTE]Well either way, there is only one option for FKK to be open again, which is when government gives green light to do so.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444197]But most powerful is not able to manage virus, with their town number 1 giving scary images to the world, with fridge trucks in streets, with Hart island for poor. I really don t wish them, because I would probably not be French without them, Europe might be very different without them, but I m afraid they could be over 50000 deaths, with so many poor who can t afford to go to hospital, keeping on working to have to eat, when unemployment is exploding there. When the most powerful is the worst since weeks. Of course, we won't compare to China, because I think everybody and our politics understood what kind of danger they can be. Have now to think about less dependence and more protection, we are not in same world. Virus is like miror for our society, much more than our medical level, and they are discovering in France, when 80% deaths are over 70 yo, and 67% under 70 had already health problems, but 50% of the worst cases under 70 are suffering obesity, even in France, more and more obese, eating on US way since they are child: MacDo for gift in foods, Cola, when we have best gastronomy in France, but US culture spreading in France, making more and more obese who are vulnerable to virus. This virus would not only kill fragile lungs, but could also infect blood for some cases when doctors didn't understand what happened for some quite young, seeming healthy, who died. I wish, if we lost, but at least could learn from what happen. As we say in sport, we learn more from a defeat than when we win.[/QUOTE]Power and managing virus has nothing to do with each other siri. USA messed up on this and many European nations messed up big time too, and soon Japan is on the same path, Japan have now 20 % beds kept free in hospital, so Japan too can have health care destruction soon if that 20% of beds are filled with heavy symptom patients and then we be on same path as Europe and USA, and all of these country has same standard of civilization beside some nations has better medical technologies, but we all are failing or on the path to failing.
However, this virus won't terminate humanity, we be back on the norm sometimes in future, it is matter of how much damage and death till then. Again, it is better to focus on controlling death rates and protecting health care system is the key.
Beside Avigan made by Fuji film Japan, which is working on mild symptom well. There is another medicine made by USA based medical company that is showing good result and not they are testing on 4000 patients globally, so it is quite hopeful.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2444351]A) a constant daught / wind can reduce infection a lot:
In a recent german TV show (Maybrit Ilgner), [URL]https://youtu.be/5ulKfdHm5wU?t=1094[/URL] (exact position), Prof Drosten (Germany's most famous virologist) said something *super-important*:
Essentially if there is a constant draught, then the coronavirus would have a much less chance to settle.
B) an app, that could show someones personal risk score, based on the vicinity of folks one was with in the past 5 days, and whether those were infected or not.
Easy to create this draught, with ventilators in the rooms. Likely dehumidifiers might help too. If the air is dry, the aerosols will be killed.
And also easy to make the risk-score app mandatory for certain establishments. At the door the FKK-clubs, could simply say, that either mongers / girls need to show that they are immun or have a low risk score. Done.[/QUOTE]With Chinese not reliable tests? Even if mistral or tramuntana wind, but if You kiss with saliva a infected girl with no symptom, no risk for you? I'm pretty sure virus will return in FKK land when reopening, virus is now around us. Risky business. When US are the worst under virus, when they never respected confined, but now they want confined to be stopped, and even fat and old ask for, same like for free weapons any psychopath can buy, it just means they accept to die, but maybe they don't understand everything and they will cry after, when no more Navajo to be scared about. In France, old people also asked not to be confined anymore after 11 May, so, many will die, many will be given by children. I don t know for how long they plan to close EU borders, but some will go outside for job, will they be under quarantine when returning? Nearly impossible no more virus and nothing in FKK land, new risk, more risky than HIV, but less dangerous for my opinion, even seem to attack not only lungs but can also blood.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444299]China claim US brought it, US claim other, don't believe all what is told or written, same than here. I just think now the world know China lied to protect their already falling economy and keeping on producing not reliable tests, with people tested negative and dying from covid. I think this is now time to protect versus lies, not to be so dependant about safety, health. We don t all have same standards and level for quality, reliability. Now, this is new world with virus working around, not so sure even having recovered will make full safe, even french doctors think to use plasma to cure. I think FKK land will now be risky playfield if you are not a survivor healthy warrior with no relatives, because when will reopen, even with EU borders closed for months, but such playfield to spread so fast and around when returning at home, but as I went to a escort under confined, but since more than 2 weeks now, I look if she is still available and I m happy for her she is, when she is only 19, too young to die from virus in Paris, as soon it will reopen, I will go to Germany, Switzerland, Austria which should open first, and Spain for Slavians. But better to know about risk for health, for relatives. Even with vaccine, if ever, if virus don t mutate before, just impossible for everybody but only risky people like versus grippe. But on the other hand, no need to be paranoiac, can die while sleeping. When I grew up, I read, I heard so much about US paranoia about what was behind the wall. Now we know, not because Russian women are much prettier and elegant than Americans, even despite Putin, but Russia is so much more interesting for culture, for a french like me, even I thank US to be a free French.[/QUOTE]It is this one I have been saying from the beginning.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology[/URL]
[QUOTE=TheCane;2444054]The German authorities seem to be confident that they have things under control. I hope they are right, and that things remain under control in FKKland. One step closer to getting back to our "hobby".[/QUOTE]If only that was the size of it however, I firmly believe the very suggestion even thoughts of FKK's reopening this year is at best optimistic.
With social distancing measures firmly in place and likely to remain so throughout the summer months quite probably beyond, I'm at loss to understand how the business of close contact and intimate pleasure with a sex worker on an industrial scale is going to be sanctioned by the German authorities.
I'd even go so far as to suggest this won't be happening until a proven vaccination is in circulation and everybody entering FKK's (clients and workers) are able to produce valid certification to prove they are inoculated and virus free.
[QUOTE=Pentire;2444505]If only that was the size of it however, I firmly believe the very suggestion even thoughts of FKK's reopening this year is at best optimistic.
With social distancing measures firmly in place and likely to remain so throughout the summer months quite probably beyond, I'm at loss to understand how the business of close contact and intimate pleasure with a sex worker on an industrial scale is going to be sanctioned by the German authorities.
I'd even go so far as to suggest this won't be happening until a proven vaccination is in circulation and everybody entering FKK's (clients and workers) are able to produce valid certification to prove they are inoculated and virus free.[/QUOTE]It will open when government gives green light LOL!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2444469]It is this one I have been saying from the beginning.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology[/URL][/QUOTE]French built this and they backed off for Chinese to manage it, and look what happened.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2444405]I believe there are now so many mutations of the virus that maybe there are both one version with 3-4% death rate, and another one with just 0. 1%. We simply do not know. An Icelandic scientist found 40 different mutations of the virus on Iceland alone![/QUOTE]Salaam Pistons,
According to the authors of that study in Iceland, the virus mutations would be less harmful. Mutations are nothing to freak out about. The flu does it all the time. It makes sense for a virus to mutate to become a nicer bedfellow because if it kills the host it kills itself. So again, I am saying: 0. 1%.
In places where the death rate was higher, like Italy and New York, it could be simply because of the disorganization of the national health systems. At first they were caught by surprise and they couldn't distribute the ventilators to the right places fast enough.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2444548]Salaam Pistons,
According to the authors of that study in Iceland, the virus mutations would be less harmful. Mutations are nothing to freak out about. The flu does it all the time. It makes sense for a virus to mutate to become a nicer bedfellow because if it kills the host it kills itself. So again, I am saying: 0. 1%.
In places where the death rate was higher, like Italy and New York, it could be simply because of the disorganization of the national health systems. At first they were caught by surprise and they couldn't distribute the ventilators to the right places fast enough.[/QUOTE]Italy was first Western country to be heavily impacted and in poor South, many Italians live with parents, when many left impacted North to return to South with family, but US couldn't not ignore because they were impacted much later, but they thought first they would be stronger, they still don t respect confined, poverty can t afford to pay for healthcare when many don t have insurance, but who really care there about mostly black people dying in NYC, Louisiana, Michigan, Chicago. I m sure Trump doesn't have problem to sleep. Virus is real mirror for US society and they are the worst under virus. Just figures.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2443724]You do realize that you have added to the conversation on coronavirus.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2443782]But you can tell about your FKK experiences, to entertain us while this black time. I could go to Russian escorts, but no libido reading deaths, unemployment.[/QUOTE]Thank you for your messages. I guess this is the case of great mind thinking alike. I apologize if your enjoyment of this forum has been upset. Please see my Evita report below. I do not wish to take over forum as do another. Please post away about Covid19 for everyone's enjoyment. Please say Hi to Basketcase if you see. Many thank and thank you again for your messages.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2444548]Salaam Pistons,
According to the authors of that study in Iceland, the virus mutations would be less harmful. Mutations are nothing to freak out about. The flu does it all the time. It makes sense for a virus to mutate to become a nicer bedfellow because if it kills the host it kills itself. So again, I am saying: 0. 1%.[/QUOTE]You almost make it sound like the virus has a mind of its own now, haha.
I believe this is all by chance. Like hitting up a casino in Las Vegas or Macau.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2444352]I encourage the audience to read the above linked CNN article in full. You'll find that the doctor who oversaw this study is far more guarded in his language than Polyamorist, who with great eagerness thinks he has found validation for his government conspiracy theories. This study is preliminary and is not yet peer reviewed. The doctor also ends with a word of caution saying that "the flu and coronavirus are still quite different. For one, we don't yet have a vaccine for Covid-19.
Doctors suspect, though, and are still trying to prove beyond a doubt, that antibodies to Covid-19 mean one is immune down the line. " The latter remains open, and it's a significant question indeed.
Also, even if the death rate is scaled downward substantially as the result of wider, like testing, there's still a number of other problems associated with placing restrictions only on the elderly while allowing everyone else to get back to business as usual. Those are found in the below article. This is an idea that British considered but back off of for good reason.
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/03/heres-why-it-wont-work-just-isolate-elderly-vulnerable/[/URL][/QUOTE]This is what I find problematic, many act as if the main goal should be to stop the number of deaths no matter what it takes. I strongly disagree with that approach. Saving the lives of people with poor health isn't worth much to me if we in process destroy the lives of the 99.0-99.9 % that won't die. We have to be able to see the bigger picture. The virus isn't especially dangerous for people under 65 without underlying health problems. In the US they have 22 million unemployed after four weeks, probably 18 million more in June. How many business owners will be forced into bankruptcy? How many will be heavily indebted and forced to a life in homelessness? How many children will have their childhood destroyed and highly disadvantaged to live a good life? Many countries will face huge problems considering their debt to GDP ratio.
30 years of economic progress in Africa might be wiped out. People have to wake up and stop being afraid of nature. Old people should stay at home, the rest should go on with their life.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2444352] Also, even if the death rate is scaled downward substantially as the result of wider, like testing, there's still a number of other problems associated with placing restrictions only on the elderly while allowing everyone else to get back to business as usual. Those are found in the below article. This is an idea that British considered but back off of for good reason.
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/03/heres-why-it-wont-work-just-isolate-elderly-vulnerable/[/URL][/QUOTE]No visitors at the elderly homes. Masks, gloves etc for the employees. In a household where one person is old or belongs to a risk group everyone in that household stays at home without loss of pay (government steps in). It would cost a government a lot less than shutting down an entire country.
Might not work in third world countries but for the rest it should.
[QUOTE=DenHaag;2444572]Thank you for your messages. I guess this is the case of great mind thinking alike. I apologize if your enjoyment of this forum has been upset. Please see my Evita report below. I do not wish to take over forum as do another. Please post away about Covid19 for everyone's enjoyment. Please say Hi to Basketcase if you see. Many thank and thank you again for your messages.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry, I know I m different but I m much more interested by virus crisis with so many deaths, economy crisis with 22 millions more unemployed in US, 8 millions more in France, than brothels and Evita I see at Sharks since January 2015 , and even my best girls, but only my subjective ranking of values, of course. At the moment, some beauties escorting in Paris, but I already missed 4 who left, went only with 1 , because not in the mood about what happen to our world, I don't mean FKK land I don't care much about at the moment. Still a Polish, a Estonian and a Belarus real beauties if I have better mood, when only pleasures are to work and prepare bicycle to climb my beloved mountains and wish to go to my Dolomiti friends. I m happy because they are safe. I wish Romanian girls had good Easter in family today.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444558]Italy was first Western country to be heavily impacted and in poor South, many Italians live with parents, when many left impacted North to return to South with family, but US couldn't not ignore because they were impacted much later, but they thought first they would be stronger, they still don t respect confined, poverty can t afford to pay for healthcare when many don t have insurance, but who really care there about mostly black people dying in NYC, Louisiana, Michigan, Chicago. I m sure Trump doesn't have problem to sleep. Virus is real mirror for US society and they are the worst under virus. Just figures.[/QUOTE]Nobody, not even Germany, can compete with North Korea, Belarus and I think Turkmenistan, claiming 0 deaths and even 0 cases, same in Taiwan. Belarus president found vaccine before others, telling to drink vodka.
Today, french government explained us about where we are about virus, really interesting and clear explanation. Virus should be under control when R0 really below 1 and stay like this, they say we are now at 0,6 in France, wish it will stay like this after 11 May, end of confined and also for old people. But not sure having recovered is no more risk. Only children have not much risk.
What's life like in western Germany? Apparently some services are now slowly opening up? Are more people out and about? Are people acting strange and scared?
It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.
Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. [B]Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK.[/B] What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2444405]I believe there are now so many mutations of the virus that maybe there are both one version with 3-4% death rate, and another one with just 0. 1%. We simply do not know. An Icelandic scientist found 40 different mutations of the virus on Iceland alone!
In Italy it surely was well above 0. 1% in some areas for example. As the total number of deaths registered in one region quadrupled from one year ago in March. That means the corona virus mutation in that area killed 3 times as many people as all other causes of deaths combined. These are morgue statistics, and has nothing to do with testing. And in the later part of the timeframe there were even restrictions on movement, thus reducing things like the seasonal flu, driving accidents etc etc.[/QUOTE]Mutations have not shown to affect pathogenicity and disease outcome. They only change antigen expression that may affect detection. Death rates have been directly correlated to socioeconomic environment of the population in the affected region.
It is exactly as Mr Ho said. The FKK clubs stay closed, until the government says so. But it is the FKK club owners to lay out a plan that can work. This may include lots of precautionary steps: masks, ventilators, duck tape, mandatory apps and what not.
So they will. With 100% certainty. Require us to wear masks. As much as they required us to wear condoms. And we all know that wearing condoms, worked very well. Mostly for the ladies. Grin. And of course, you know that the government is reading this too. It can made to work. What is so difficult to understand?
Our job is to help the FKK club owners think this through. Because our collective brainpower is very high. Likely much much higher than the 10-person crew of any of the FKK clubs.
[QUOTE=Pentire;2444505] I'm at loss to understand how the business of close contact and intimate pleasure with a sex worker on an industrial scale is going to be sanctioned by the German authorities.
[/QUOTE]
Well, I'm on the ground and it's pretty much a fortiori argument currently.
If concerts, and all other large public events are banned, and they're only opening stores below a certain size. All the more so clubs with a large party atmosphere filled with older men wearing nothing but a towel surrounded by 50-100 naked women and getting as close to them as is humanly possible, with guests travelling from the entire world to attend, are going to be banned probably the longest.
Also given the fact the girls are all back home in Romania, and may be about to miss one of the busiest seasons, I would expect the FKKs to be out for most of the summer. Facemasks or no.
I am afraid this looks shot for the next few months. Honestly, if not, then I'll be the first to run to one of them given the monotony of being at home.
In terms of P6, the only stuff available are a few escorts and maybe a dozen girls in the RLD strutting their stuff on the streets (70 euros at least).
Hopefully however this post will be a consolation to those wishing they were here when currently there's nothing really here.
[QUOTE=Tropea317;2444220]So make the picture.
For 1 or 2 years no more Italian customers in FKK.[/QUOTE]In such a case, the FKK will be freed from the most noisy clients.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2444671]It is exactly as Mr Ho said. The FKK clubs stay closed, until the government says so. But it is the FKK club owners to lay out a plan that can work. This may include lots of precautionary steps: masks, ventilators, duck tape, mandatory apps and what not.
So they will. With 100% certainty. Require us to wear masks. As much as they required us to wear condoms. And we all know that wearing condoms, worked very well. Mostly for the ladies. Grin. And of course, you know that the government is reading this too. It can made to work. What is so difficult to understand?
Our job is to help the FKK club owners think this through. Because our collective brainpower is very high. Likely much much higher than the 10-person crew of any of the FKK clubs.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry but I m not clever enough to find enjoyable with mask and gloves. No real kiss, then can t have pleasure.
Germany will open shops smaller than 800 meters square, Austria will for shops smaller than 400, but with masks.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2444671]This may include lots of precautionary steps: masks, ventilators, duck tape, mandatory apps and what not.[/QUOTE]I hope this is your attempt at humor. I see no different between P6 business transactions and dating, except on has a much higher chance of ending with sex. In your scenario a couple out on a date would be forbidden from kissing the same as a bear and a WG. What I expect, and am surprised I haven't seen it yet, is the religious end of the world groups coming forward, blaming their God for smiting those who willingly expose themselves to filth and petulance.
One thing that has been interesting to watch is the national chest pounding, claims of superiority. Interestingly enough, we are all stuck on the semi solid surface of a molten lava ball. With the exception of the possible 6 persons on the space station we are all pretty much stuck in this mess together. Regardless of how you believe this virus started, it started in one country and thanks to high speed flights around the world, and Audi's sweeping the Autobahn, this virus has spread to the far reaches of the world. A country can have it completely eradicated and all it takes is one traveler to contact the virus and pass through said country and the virus can be back in the wild again. My Hope's are that the nations of earth figure out how to limit the number of fatalities in time, then the virus can run its course building antibodies in the majority of human kind.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444658]I'm sorry, I know I m different but I m much more interested by virus crisis with so many deaths, economy crisis with 22 millions more unemployed in US, 8 millions more in France, than brothels and Evita I see at Sharks since January 2015 , and even my best girls, but only my subjective ranking of values, of course. At the moment, some beauties escorting in Paris, but I already missed 4 who left, went only with 1 , because not in the mood about what happen to our world, I don't mean FKK land I don't care much about at the moment. Still a Polish, a Estonian and a Belarus real beauties if I have better mood, when only pleasures are to work and prepare bicycle to climb my beloved mountains and wish to go to my Dolomiti friends. I m happy because they are safe. I wish Romanian girls had good Easter in family today.[/QUOTE]Siri, do that in corona virus thread LOL. The guy is thanking for corona topic has been moved to corona thread and then you begin corona topic here again LOL!
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2444666]
It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.
Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. [B]Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK.[/B] What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.[/QUOTE]Europe has a higher population density than the US.
Example of what high population density leads to: [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8206143/New-York-coronavirus-cases-Italy-Spain.html[/URL].
CNN and BBC among others are hypocritical. Each day, they randomly attack other nations about corona virus failure, today they are saying Singapore had it control, but now cases spiked etc. I think they should look at what is happening to their own nations with insane death rates and medical system completely failed and they only had corona since like March in western nations.
[QUOTE=Atlante18;2444675]In such a case, the FKK will be freed from the most noisy clients.[/QUOTE]Not so fast.
The Italian residents in Italy.
For the big bunch that already work in Germany, for restaurants tourism etc, BTW are almost totally a business of mafia camorra etc, but don t tell to Deutsche regierung, they like mafia money, make money in Italy than export in Germany banks, they will stay.
If you want to make a pogrom, I'm with you.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444658]I'm sorry, I know I m different but I m much more interested by virus crisis with so many deaths, economy crisis with 22 millions more unemployed in US, 8 millions more in France, than brothels and Evita I see at Sharks since January 2015 , and even my best girls, but only my subjective ranking of values, of course. At the moment, some beauties escorting in Paris, but I already missed 4 who left, went only with 1 , because not in the mood about what happen to our world, I don't mean FKK land I don't care much about at the moment. Still a Polish, a Estonian and a Belarus real beauties if I have better mood, when only pleasures are to work and prepare bicycle to climb my beloved mountains and wish to go to my Dolomiti friends. I m happy because they are safe. I wish Romanian girls had good Easter in family today.[/QUOTE]By the way, it is France who made the virus laboratory in Wuhan China.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2444666]What's life like in western Germany? Apparently some services are now slowly opening up? Are more people out and about? Are people acting strange and scared?
It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.
Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. [B]Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK.[/B] What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.[/QUOTE]You must be joking? USA is a mess, just look at the numbers. There's a bloodbath in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, Louisiana, Massachusetts and Michigan. New York is worse off than any other European country excluding San Marino. And the numbers are only going up. On top of that over 22'000'000 people lost their jobs in four weeks and that despite the high number of deaths. Canada is looking so much better, USA could really learn a lot from them. Its freighting to see how weak USA really is. They actually failed worse than many feared.
UK USA and Israel together want to make trillion lawsuit against China?
Maybe something more spicy.
[QUOTE=DasBooty;2444782]Europe has a higher population density than the US.
Example of what high population density leads to: [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8206143/New-York-coronavirus-cases-Italy-Spain.html[/URL].[/QUOTE]That affects transmission rate but not death rate of those infected. That's a reflection of medical response. Even in the mostly densely populated NYC, death rate is still only 7% compared the 10% you see in aforementioned European countries.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2444666]What's life like in western Germany? Apparently some services are now slowly opening up? Are more people out and about? Are people acting strange and scared?
It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.
Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. [B]Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK.[/B] What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.[/QUOTE]Media does not seem pin blame on US healthcare system or any other national healthcare system. Media seems to blame certain governments for their slow responses. Underfunding programs. Not being prepared, and not resourcing ventilators and medical equipment. In other words, poor long-term and short-term planning by politicians. Media has consistently trumpeted the idea that there is no healthcare system on the planet that can handle the coronavirus if social distancing were not put into place to mitigate the spread.
Rather than country-to-country comparison, it might be more appropriate to shift the conversation to a city-to-city comparison. Madrid accounts for 33 percent of Spain's deaths, NYC about 25 percent of USA's deaths. The hardest hit cities in each country all have a few things in common: (1) high population density, (2) globally connected financial center for their respective country. Cheyenne, Wyoming has better coronavirus statistics than NYC, but I doubt you will find anyone who would say that they have better doctors or healthcare than NYC. We still haven't seen coronavirus hit Africa. They might have better than expected numbers due to being a younger population. Again, I doubt any media will draw conclusions that they have better healthcare system than the western nations.
Questions are going to be asked and the status quo will be challenged or scrutinized in every country. After such a crisis, I think it is only natural to reconsider all policies or re-initiate old discussions. For USA that might be universal healthcare and social inequality. For China that might be government transparency and surveillance. Applicable to every country might be pandemic response, city planning, telecommuting, and global alliances. For instance, Italy has not been happy with its EU partners. For those reasons, there could be both economic and political stability in the post-Covid 19 world.
It is funny how CNN insult Singapore today and BBC write the opposite about nations health and its health care system LOL. I am surprise France or Germany is not even on top 10.
[URL]http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20200419-coronavirus-five-countries-with-the-best-healthcare-systems[/URL]
[QUOTE=Tropea317;2444220]So make the picture.
Austria and Germany quickly to a new normality.
And don t forget that Germany have a big Pharma industry for all the equipment e the vaccine.
For the hospital never had ICU problem.
So poor Italy, please don't censored this because I m Italian, with its lousy health system and politicians, e 1/3 of the country mafialand. Will be the first to entry in crisis and the last to exit.
For 1 or 2 years no more Italian customers in FKK.[/QUOTE]There are rich Italians spending big money in FKK land, even poor South. I m really sorry for Italy I really love, for bad experience about chinese virus, but I m happy my Dolomiti friends are safe and look forward going in my little paradise: Stelvio, Gavia, Mortirolo, Zoncolan in Frioul and now extreme 28% Gentile, Carabinieri adviced me. I really wish for great sporty, climbing every day for more than 15 days, ironman Summer, but only on bicycle. If no more Italians, Wellcum and Andiamo will die, I think Chiaso also, other Swiss clubs will cry, and even some GT Bruggen girls. I remember I met 2 really pretty Italian girls at Wellcum, Anna on August 2016 and lightning Tea on August 2018 , but both not good for me because not really kissing and when they saw my frustration about their way for sex, they told: But Italians here don t kiss. I was luckier with Mila at Marina Slovenia, also full of Italians. I have different behavior, but FKK need Italian business.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2444668]Mutations have not shown to affect pathogenicity and disease outcome. They only change antigen expression that may affect detection. Death rates have been directly correlated to socioeconomic environment of the population in the affected region.[/QUOTE]Then it should be terrible in some poor parts of the world right now, because Bergamo in Italy which was fairly badly hit, is one of the wealthiest parts of Europe. Definitely one of the wealthiest in Italy for sure!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2444800]By the way, it is France who made the virus laboratory in Wuhan China.[/QUOTE]What you mean? France is responsible of organization and safety in China? But I'm happy France get ordered for building in China, and do CIA have real proof which can be controlled by everybody, when one of the less reliable organization, can compete with China for truth.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2444844]That affects transmission rate but not death rate of those infected. That's a reflection of medical response. Even in the mostly densely populated NYC, death rate is still only 7% compared the 10% you see in aforementioned European countries.[/QUOTE]Good point. This could "almost" isolate out all other factors, and make medical response the sole basis of comparison. But I would argue that that you must then look at the closed cases. USA has 113 K closed cases, 41 K deaths, which comes out to 37% death rate. France is 35%, Italy is 33%, Spain 21%, and Germany 5%.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us[/URL]
But I still don't think these numbers prove that health system in one country is any better than the other. Deaths seem to pile up when hospitals get overloaded and when the population has high comorbidities. At least the first factor is dictated more by policy makers. Procuring test kits, ventilators, and masks and deciding how early and how long to implement social distancing are outside of the healthcare system's control. USA still has 650 K open cases. If the decision to reopen is not the correct one or the reopening is not properly planned, managed, and executed, American hospitals will never get a chance to "catch up" and improve on their death rate.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2444844]That affects transmission rate but not death rate of those infected. That's a reflection of medical response. Even in the mostly densely populated NYC, death rate is still only 7% compared the 10% you see in aforementioned European countries.[/QUOTE]It has more to do with age. Europe has an older population than the US: [URL]https://www.prb.org/countries-with-the-oldest-populations/[/URL].
[QUOTE=MrHo;2444800]By the way, it is France who made the virus laboratory in Wuhan China.[/QUOTE]France helped Saddam Hussein kick start a nuclear plant too. We know how that turned out. Bad in so, so many ways!
[QUOTE=Tropea317;2444795]Not so fast.
The Italian residents in Italy.
For the big bunch that already work in Germany, for restaurants tourism etc, BTW are almost totally a business of mafia camorra etc, but don t tell to Deutsche regierung, they like mafia money, make money in Italy than export in Germany banks, they will stay.
If you want to make a pogrom, I'm with you.[/QUOTE]I love Italy, my second country, when too complicated for Russia I love also. Germany really can't compete for way of life and foods, only worth for me for brothels, escorts are usually not pretty enough in Germany. When they have enough money to afford, Germans leave Germany for Spain, France, Italy, for holidays, to be more free than in Germany.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2444784]CNN and BBC among others are hypocritical. Each day, they randomly attack other nations about corona virus failure, today they are saying Singapore had it control, but now cases spiked etc. I think they should look at what is happening to their own nations with insane death rates and medical system completely failed and they only had corona since like March in western nations.[/QUOTE]Like in brothels, only facts are real for me, figures for virus, today more than 40 000 deaths in US with mostly poor Afro Americans, not far from 30 millions more unemployed and more than 10 millions illegals, for country number 1 . We are not better in France with now more than 20000 deaths when I see how work in exceptional way our medical staff, and I m sure US medical staff also do great job, but too many without insurance who can't afford to pay for healthcare. But when I see old and fat in US asking to finish confined, as they ask for free weapons for mad to kill in schools, universities, churches, I don't worry anymore for them, when Trump is playing a politic game, I will worry much more for poor Africa, and this is much more important for me than brothels land and prostitutes looking for fast money, when so many Africans may die because of poverty. Maybe my communist part, even very individualist, maybe why I m so interested by Russian culture and history, except by Putin.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444958]Like in brothels, only facts are real for me, figures for virus, today more than 40 000 deaths in US with mostly poor Afro Americans, not far from 30 millions more unemployed and more than 10 millions illegals, for country number 1 . We are not better in France with now more than 20000 deaths when I see how work in exceptional way our medical staff, and I m sure US medical staff also do great job, but too many without insurance who can't afford to pay for healthcare. But when I see old and fat in US asking to finish confined, as they ask for free weapons for mad to kill in schools, universities, churches, I don't worry anymore for them, when Trump is playing a politic game, I will worry much more for poor Africa, and this is much more important for me than brothels land and prostitutes looking for fast money, when so many Africans may die because of poverty. Maybe my communist part, even very individualist, maybe why I m so interested by Russian culture and history, except by Putin.[/QUOTE]Corona was found in river in Paris, this is scary, apparently it is from toilet. I mean they should stop dumping toilet water into river, Paris is capital of France, which is g7 nation. Infrastructure has to be revised and be more hygiene. This river thing is scary, but it is good they spotted it.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2444950]France helped Saddam Hussein kick start a nuclear plant too. We know how that turned out. Bad in so, so many ways![/QUOTE]France also take political donation from Qaddafi and when it surface, France killed him LOL, it was French plane from NATO who bombarded the biggest political investor to France. Sarkozy got away with it LOL! Colonization of middle east still continued.
But French technology is not as good as German and Japanese and they should not make those plant or lab in those problem nations, they are not ready for technologies.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444953]I love Italy, my second country, when too complicated for Russia I love also. Germany really can't compete for way of life and foods, only worth for me for brothels, escorts are usually not pretty enough in Germany. When they have enough money to afford, Germans leave Germany for Spain, France, Italy, for holidays, to be more free than in Germany.[/QUOTE]Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French agency Michelin for past 11 years straight. But France and Italy and also Spain has great food culture in Europe, hat off to them.
But man, way of life? Medically it is messed up there and Germany is better for that, but as for Dolce vita, Italy is more relaxed and amazing nation and also France, they are socialist close to communist, so it is good, you are protected by government and when things don't go your way, french take it to street with demonstration which in most other nation may call it more like riot LOL! With fire, destroying stores etc LOL.
France and Italy are both in g7, but lower ranked.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2444844]That affects transmission rate but not death rate of those infected. That's a reflection of medical response. Even in the mostly densely populated NYC, death rate is still only 7% compared the 10% you see in aforementioned European countries.[/QUOTE]You are talking about the confirmed number of infected, not the actual number that's been infected. 0.56% is the death rate of those infected on Iceland. The medical response must have been amazing! Or it might have something to do with the number of tests being done. Iceland have tested over 12.5% of their population, only the Faeroe Islands comes close to that number.
Oh, you might want to know the death rate on the Faroe Islands: 0.00 %.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444958]Like in brothels, only facts are real for me, figures for virus, today more than 40 000 deaths in US with mostly poor Afro Americans, not far from 30 millions more unemployed and more than 10 millions illegals, for country number 1 . We are not better in France with now more than 20000 deaths when I see how work in exceptional way our medical staff, and I m sure US medical staff also do great job, but too many without insurance who can't afford to pay for healthcare. But when I see old and fat in US asking to finish confined, as they ask for free weapons for mad to kill in schools, universities, churches, I don't worry anymore for them, when Trump is playing a politic game, I will worry much more for poor Africa, and this is much more important for me than brothels land and prostitutes looking for fast money, when so many Africans may die because of poverty. Maybe my communist part, even very individualist, maybe why I m so interested by Russian culture and history, except by Putin.[/QUOTE]Go to Moscow, it is only like 4 hours form Paris right?
I like Moscow, but I recommend more st petersberg.
But Moscow changed, I went there first in year 2000 and back then it was still different to Europe, but now it still is different, but it has more European side to it. Same with Almaty, I went in 1999 first time, I went back in 2017, it developed too much now to my taste, I liked it when I smelt bit of USSR feeling.
I love to go back to Romania, I have not been since 2001, it must have changed a lot, but at least I fuck their women a lot of them in Germany and zurich LOL!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2444936]What you mean? France is responsible of organization and safety in China? But I'm happy France get ordered for building in China, and do CIA have real proof which can be controlled by everybody, when one of the less reliable organization, can compete with China for truth.[/QUOTE]Also Kim Jong un has been operated by french doctors in north Korea, but the guy is in critical condition now, thanks to French doctors for doing good job to eliminating one of the most vicious dictator, lack of skill sometime is good thing for the world LOL!
Universal healthcare is a non starter in US. As for social inequality, they can debate it forever but there will never be such a thing. Not in the US, not anywhere else. May be there will be degrees of inequality, but never any true equality.
Prosecutors say 43-year-old Baruch Feldheim hoarded the supplies in order to take advantage of the COVID-19 crisis and was selling them to doctors and nurses at prices as much as 700% above market value.
[URL]https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/medical-supplies-seized-alleged-price-gouger-distributed-hospitals/story?id=69938363[/URL]
[URL]https://youtu.be/DlaWuGj2Grw[/URL]
Nearly a million medical-grade masks and gloves that were seized this week from a Brooklyn man who was charged with lying to federal agents about price-gouging will go to medical workers in New York and New Jersey, the authorities said Thursday.
The need for masks and personal protective equipment, known as PPE, is acute in the New York metropolitan region, an epicenter of the coronavirus pandemic in the United States.
The stockpile of supplies that were seized included 192,000 N95 respirators, 130,000 surgical masks and nearly 600,000 medical grade gloves, the authorities said. They said they also had recovered surgical gowns, disinfectant towels, particulate filters, hand sanitizer and spray disinfectant.
The man who was charged with lying to federal agents, Baruch Feldheim, 43, charged a doctor $12,000 last month for a large order of masks, gowns and hazmat gear at a 700 percent markup, according to the F. Be. I. The agency called it a glaring example of hoarding of medical supplies that are designated as essential under a presidential executive order.
When the doctor went to pick up his order at an auto repair shop in Irvington, and. J. , which was being used as a warehouse, he saw so many pallets of medical gear, Clorox wipes and hand sanitizer that it would have been enough to supply an entire hospital, a criminal complaint said.
"Cracking down on the hoarding of vital supplies allows us to distribute this material to the heroic health care workers on the front lines who are most in need," Alex M. Azar II, the USA Health and Human Services secretary, said in a statement on Thursday.
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When federal agents first confronted Mr. Feldheim on Sunday, he coughed in their direction and told them that he had tested positive for the coronavirus, the authorities said. He was arrested on Monday and also charged with one count of assault on a federal officer, the criminal complaint said.
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Mr. Feldheim's defense lawyer, James Moriarty, did not immediately respond to a request for comment on Thursday night, but Reuters reported that Mr. Moriarty had denied the charges.
In a message on Thursday to his F. B. I. Colleagues, Gregory W. Ehrie, the special agent in charge of the F. Be. I. 's Newark office, wrote that the efforts of law enforcement officers were making a difference during the health care crisis.
"It is gratifying when the challenging and risky work of our agents has such positive and tangible results," Mr. Ehrie wrote. "Profiteers need to be aware that we are looking for them and will do whatever necessary to help stem the tide of this crisis. The public needs to know that they are a force multiplier in our efforts and should bring us any information that could curtail criminal activity."
The USA Department of Health and Human Services said it would pay "fair market value" to the owner of the hoarded equipment.
The materials were inspected and redistributed to the health departments of New York State, New Jersey and New York City, the authorities said.
William K. Rashbaum and Adam Goldman contributed reporting.
Top 10 health care nations and their death rate relate:
[URL]http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20200419-coronavirus-five-countries-with-the-best-healthcare-systems[/URL]
Just read in several news sources that Oktoberfest 2020 is the latest victim of COVID-19. If people think that Sauna Clubs will reopen this summer it may be time to re-evaluate that position.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2444579]You almost make it sound like the virus has a mind of its own now, haha.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2444548]Mutations are nothing to freak out about. The flu does it all the time. It makes sense for a virus to mutate to become a nicer bedfellow because if it kills the host it kills itself. [/QUOTE][/QUOTE][I]Tell your friend that in his death, a part of you dies and goes with him. Wherever he goes, you also go. He will not be alone.[/I] -- Krishnamurti.
Sometimes I think we must put aside partisanship and listen to the other side no matter how much we detest them. What I am hearing from our little friends is a cry for help.
Coronavirus: "Please accept our apologies if you die. When these unfortunate side-effects occur, no-one is worse impacted than we ourselves. ".
Rather than being scared of mutations, we should be accelerating them, so that the enlightened tribes of Covid-20 and Covid-21 may overcome their savage forebear.
[I]Pain itself destroys pain. Suffering itself frees man from suffering.[/I] -- Krishnamurti.
Oktoberfest and FKK / saunaclubs are totally different.
The one is a MASS feast with about 100,000 folks at any point in time.
The others can be much more disciplined. Especially if you lay out the rules.
I am not giving up. Hope is the thing that dies last. Right?
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2445095]Just read in several news sources that Oktoberfest 2020 is the latest victim of COVID-19. If people think that Sauna Clubs will reopen this summer it may be time to re-evaluate that position.[/QUOTE]
No one's actually closing the cases. It requires 2 confirmed negative tests in most cases and unless you're admitted into a hospital, no one's getting test once they're better.
I'the say the healthcare system's ability to not get over run is definitely a benchmark of it's quality. Do you see the irony of all the criticism of America's poor healthcare system and fat people with comorbidities yet death rates, even in densely populated New York is much lower?
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2444942]Good point. This could "almost" isolate out all other factors, and make medical response the sole basis of comparison. But I would argue that that you must then look at the closed cases. USA has 113 K closed cases, 41 K deaths, which comes out to 37% death rate. France is 35%, Italy is 33%, Spain 21%, and Germany 5%.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us[/URL]
But I still don't think these numbers prove that health system in one country is any better than the other. Deaths seem to pile up when hospitals get overloaded and when the population has high comorbidities. At least the first factor is dictated more by policy makers. Procuring test kits, ventilators, and masks and deciding how early and how long to implement social distancing are outside of the healthcare system's control. USA still has 650 K open cases. If the decision to reopen is not the correct one or the reopening is not properly planned, managed, and executed, American hospitals will never get a chance to "catch up" and improve on their death rate.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2445015]You are talking about the confirmed number of infected, not the actual number that's been infected. 0.56% is the death rate of those infected on Iceland. The medical response must have been amazing! Or it might have something to do with the number of tests being done. Iceland have tested over 12.5% of their population, only the Faeroe Islands comes close to that number.
Oh, you might want to know the death rate on the Faroe Islands: 0.00 %.[/QUOTE]In developed nations, the trend is that the more you test, the lower the death rate so I guess you're saying that America's true death rate is even lower. Most people who die, die in healthcare facilities. They're being tested there. The cases that go unreported are the asymptomatically affected or the mildly affected. If numbers are skewed in a particular direction, they are actually overestimating death rates.
Sweden's initial "let them reach herd immunity" stance has been well documented.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2444906]Then it should be terrible in some poor parts of the world right now, because Bergamo in Italy which was fairly badly hit, is one of the wealthiest parts of Europe. Definitely one of the wealthiest in Italy for sure![/QUOTE]Average age is part of socio-economic metrics. Prevalence of 80 year olds is as much a risk factor as prevalence of poor, sick, and younger.
[QUOTE=DasBooty;2444945]It has more to do with age. Europe has an older population than the US: [URL]https://www.prb.org/countries-with-the-oldest-populations/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Definitely a factor. More? I disagree, but a factor yes. Worth noting that Germany and Italy have the same average age but complete opposite results though. So again, it's a factor but more? Doesn't seem so.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2445095]Just read in several news sources that Oktoberfest 2020 is the latest victim of COVID-19. If people think that Sauna Clubs will reopen this summer it may be time to re-evaluate that position.[/QUOTE]I have already gone on record here that in my view, chance of a large FKK like Sharks opening for normal business before the fall is 5% and before the year end is 25%. Those are the odds I give. Others may differ.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445003]Corona was found in river in Paris, this is scary, apparently it is from toilet. I mean they should stop dumping toilet water into river, Paris is capital of France, which is g7 nation. Infrastructure has to be revised and be more hygiene. This river thing is scary, but it is good they spotted it.[/QUOTE]No corona problem for water in Paris and in France at the moment. I drink more Paris water than famous French wines or champagne.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445023]Go to Moscow, it is only like 4 hours form Paris right?
I like Moscow, but I recommend more st petersberg.
But Moscow changed, I went there first in year 2000 and back then it was still different to Europe, but now it still is different, but it has more European side to it. Same with Almaty, I went in 1999 first time, I went back in 2017, it developed too much now to my taste, I liked it when I smelt bit of USSR feeling.
I love to go back to Romania, I have not been since 2001, it must have changed a lot, but at least I fuck their women a lot of them in Germany and zurich LOL![/QUOTE]Peter is for me the most beautiful town, real museum town for architecture, even more beautiful than Paris. Moscow can't compete, even very beautiful underground metro stations.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445010]Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French agency Michelin for past 11 years straight. But France and Italy and also Spain has great food culture in Europe, hat off to them.
But man, way of life? Medically it is messed up there and Germany is better for that, but as for Dolce vita, Italy is more relaxed and amazing nation and also France, they are socialist close to communist, so it is good, you are protected by government and when things don't go your way, french take it to street with demonstration which in most other nation may call it more like riot LOL! With fire, destroying stores etc LOL.
France and Italy are both in g7, but lower ranked.[/QUOTE]Japan need to make image, when many of our best cookers stop with Michelin, they don't need because they are famous all over the world. For me no comparison between Italy and Japan, you fall in love when you are in Italy.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445058]Top 10 health care nations and their death rate relate:
[URL]http://www.bbc.com/travel/story/20200419-coronavirus-five-countries-with-the-best-healthcare-systems[/URL][/QUOTE]Well Mr Ho, it depends from the list you take.
If you look at the one by the World Health Organization (and not by an unknown British think tank) such list is quite different and has France and Italy at the top.
[URL]https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/[/URL]
My points are that such lists are rather arbitrary and even the best Healthcare System is not planned to sustain extreme situations.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2445204]Japan need to make image, when many of our best cookers stop with Michelin, they don't need because they are famous all over the world. For me no comparison between Italy and Japan, you fall in love when you are in Italy.[/QUOTE]I love south Italy more than north, especially calabria where tourist is still limited in some part.
In Japan too, some chef refuse Michelin as they lose their original regular clients, it is not image thing by the way, I know some normal working class french people are known to be too proud of their own nation not knowing much about foreign nations, but it is just the fact Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French gourmets, but it is each their own.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2445202]Peter is for me the most beautiful town, real museum town for architecture, even more beautiful than Paris. Moscow can't compete, even very beautiful underground metro stations.[/QUOTE]Paris is image thing, it has some nice architecture, but if you actually go there, it is just partly beautiful, in most part it stinks, not clean and full of tourists, not safe. And french people are not so kind hearted especially in Paris.
Metro in Moscow is nice too by the way, but it is communist thing. To monger I like it better in Moscow, but it is pricey even you have wealthy friend.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2445199]No corona problem for water in Paris and in France at the moment. I drink more Paris water than famous French wines or champagne.[/QUOTE]Well be careful as corona was found in water source in pars as toilet water is dumped into river due to Paris water management system:
[URL]https://www.connexionfrance.com/French-news/No-risk-to-tap-water-as-traces-of-coronavirus-SARS-CoV-2-which-causes-Covid-19-is-found-in-Paris-non-potable-water-source[/URL]
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445010]Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French agency Michelin for past 11 years straight. But France and Italy and also Spain has great food culture in Europe, hat off to them.[/QUOTE]Mr Ho, don't you know that when an outsider beats you at your game, using your own measuring stick, you have the option to declare that measuring stick invalid and ignoring the results. What I enjoy about Japanese Mechelin Star chefs is that they often perfect foods from around the world, not only seeing Japanese cuisine as the only option. Amazingly, if you look around the Sauna Club scene, you may see a Star chef who enjoys dining at the why.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2445196]I have already gone on record here that in my view, chance of a large FKK like Sharks opening for normal business before the fall is 5% and before the year end is 25%. Those are the odds I give. Others may differ.[/QUOTE]Username checks out :)
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445010]Japan has more Michelin stars than France rated by French agency Michelin for past 11 years straight.
[/QUOTE]Tokyo alone has 4 times the number of restaurants in Paris.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2445274]Mr Ho, don't you know that when an outsider beats you at your game, using your own measuring stick, you have the option to declare that measuring stick invalid and ignoring the results. What I enjoy about Japanese Mechelin Star chefs is that they often perfect foods from around the world, not only seeing Japanese cuisine as the only option. Amazingly, if you look around the Sauna Club scene, you may see a Star chef who enjoys dining at the why.[/QUOTE]Yeah, we even has Japanese chef in Paris making French cuisine owning Michelin stars, we got the best chefs in the world.
[QUOTE=TrebleMachine;2445335]Tokyo alone has 4 times the number of restaurants in Paris.[/QUOTE]So what, we got 4 times better restaurants than Paris.
[QUOTE=Borrop74;2445224]Well Mr Ho, it depends from the list you take.
If you look at the one by the World Health Organization (and not by an unknown British think tank) such list is quite different and has France and Italy at the top.
[URL]https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/[/URL]
My points are that such lists are rather arbitrary and even the best Healthcare System is not planned to sustain extreme situations.[/QUOTE]WHO? You mean CHO, chinese health organization.
American accusation to WHO is accurate, WHO is basically bought by China, the head of WHO is ethiopian guy and he used to be health minister back in Ethiopia which is bought by China, so you see the link? The accusation by USA government to WHO is accurate, WHO is so corrupt to the level nation can pay them to say false thing, just like at the beginning of this corona case, WHO claimed based on chinese report that covid 19 is not contagious from human to human, WHO is that corrupt to the extent if one listen to them seriously it shows ones educational level. There are more insane thing WHO said based on chinese reports which were ridiculously false, which they still claim WHO and China handle this properly, if you believe that it is your thing, but WHO is the last thing I would trust.
And WHO put Italy as top nation for medical? Look at the death rates with covid 19. Each nation has things that they are good at, Italy is good at making well designed sport cars with not reliable engineering, best tailoring especially from napoli, only tailoring that can match napoli tailor is saville row london, and south of Italy has amazing food that only France and Japan can compete and also spain too to some extent. So here is also one thing that is wrong with WHO.
Top medical nations are some european nations, Japan and usa. And sadly even then some nations do better than others, but it won't save you from corona, yesterday we just lost former ceo of omron, one of biggest medical company in the world. So one thing that is right is covid 19 do not discriminate and only medicine we got so far is avigan made by fuji film Japan for mild symptom, this was orginally made for bird flu and there is also one from american pharma, the medicine originally made for ebora that seems to be working.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2445204]Japan need to make image, when many of our best cookers stop with Michelin, they don't need because they are famous all over the world. For me no comparison between Italy and Japan, you fall in love when you are in Italy.[/QUOTE]If only Italy had FKKs or brothels like in Germany, it would become my number one and regular destination for holidays. I go quite often there for work, and indeed it has a decent, relatively cheap incall scene, which I do enjoy (especially Florence in my experience). But if they only set up FKKs there.....
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2445169]Definitely a factor. More? I disagree, but a factor yes. Worth noting that Germany and Italy have the same average age but complete opposite results though. So again, it's a factor but more? Doesn't seem so.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/52311014[/URL]
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2444666]What's life like in western Germany? Apparently some services are now slowly opening up? Are more people out and about? Are people acting strange and scared?
It looks like Spain, France, Italy, Netherlands, UK, Belgium, Sweden, and UK are complete messes. No doubt because the first five had overly romanticized healthcare systems unable to respond to this disaster. UK and Sweden are probably doing poorly because they did too little too late.
Despite the media's portrayal of anecdotal and regional disasters, the mood in most of the US seems to be on an uptick. Some beaches are opening up. Some states are lifting stay-at-home orders while keeping social distancing measures in place. Cases and deaths have plateaued. Overall death rates are much much lower than than the previously exaggerated predictions. [B]Death rates have settled at about 2.4% of those infected 0.01% of total population, much better than the 10% death rates of infected in those mentioned EU nations and the UK.[/B] What the heck is going on over there! Personally, I think the death numbers during this whole mess is exposing how weak some these western European societies really are. Respect to certain countries like Germany, Austria, and Norway for the discipline of their people, public health programs, and medical providers. The numbers show that the US, despite being lead by a fat monkey and a microscope where the world overly dramatizes our country, has shown that you don't need a romanticized utopia to respond to this disaster.[/QUOTE]I don't care if you agree with me or not but someone in this forum might read your post and draw a asinine conclusion if they weren't presented with the fact that Europe has an older population and is more densely populated than the US.
[QUOTE=PunterWanderer;2445489]If only Italy had FKKs or brothels like in Germany, it would become my number one and regular destination for holidays. I go quite often there for work, and indeed it has a decent, relatively cheap incall scene, which I do enjoy (especially Florence in my experience). But if they only set up FKKs there.....[/QUOTE]For sure, no competition between Italy and Germany, for foods, for way of life, ask Germans who can afford, where they prefer to spend holidays, Germany would be empty. Until 2016, Milano and even sometimes Torino did worth for escorts with your dream girls, Amore Russo, Russian girls.
When we see Florida beaches, people claiming against confined, just crazy, let's count how many thousands for the world record and how many unemployed. They think they are stronger than others. Only smokers seem not too infected, but old and fat are in danger.
[QUOTE=DasBooty;2445490][URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/52311014[/URL]
I don't care if you agree with me or not but someone in this forum might read your post and draw a asinine conclusion if they weren't presented with the fact that Europe has an older population and is more densely populated than the US.[/QUOTE]All good but I keep just presenting data in the form of rates. Reading the BBC article, it just shows that countries like the UK are underestimating their rates since they are not counting nursing home rates which further makes my case. As opposed to the US where NYC recently added 3 thousand cases that were presumed COVID without a confirmed test.
[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/nursing-homes-remain-a-concern-as-new-yorks-coronavirus-outbreak-appears-to-plateau-11586892250[/URL]
Most importantly and constantly ignored by the population density proponents here. NYC's death rate sit at roughly 50-60% the rate of the 13+% death rate countries like UK, Italy, and France. NYC is more dense than any city or country in Europe and their death rate is the highest in the Us.
The only factor is that UK and France are testing at a lower rate so presumably healthy positives are not being discounted. But despite this, even if their testing were bumped up to match the rate of the United States, their death rates of 13% would still only be lowered enough to match NYC's if, proportionate to testing rate, every single extra test resulted as positive with no death.
Is the 2 year average age difference the only remaining argument here? You'the think that the fat / sick American comorbidities argument would counteract that.
All that being said, we're about to reopen half of America in a pretty unrestrained fashion in comparison to Germany and Nordic countries and all hell might break loose. I can't and won't defend the actions of politicians though. I'm only defending the United States' response from a healthcare system perspective up until this peak where social distancing has been practiced, and the data have shown that we've comparatively done just fine despite sensationalized media coverage.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2444666]the UKWhat the heck is going on over there![/QUOTE]Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.
Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021!
[QUOTE=PunterWanderer;2445489]If only Italy had FKKs or brothels like in Germany, it would become my number one and regular destination for holidays. I go quite often there for work, and indeed it has a decent, relatively cheap incall scene, which I do enjoy (especially Florence in my experience). But if they only set up FKKs there.....[/QUOTE]With their organization and problem with corruption and mafia, I do not think it will be possible and above all law has to be adjusted like Germany did before FKK to be open in Italy.
However, with Italy's financial difficulty before corona and now it is even worst, there could be some area to debate for such prostitution format to be open there, but I think Italy would go for Chinese easy money again, which world warned them about before corona, but they did not listen and look happen to Italy now.
It is sad because it is beautiful country.
[QUOTE=PayForIt;2445513]I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021![/QUOTE]Also hope FKK Atmos and FKK Babylon Hamburg make it. I too look to return in 2021, but won't if we still have to do things like quarantine for 2 weeks upon arrival. In the meantime, no more pacing around and around and around the club for you Sir PayForIt LOLOLOL! Not until 2021, we hope!
[QUOTE=PayForIt;2445513]Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.
Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021![/QUOTE]Well, at least BoJo is going in the right direction if reacting late. Being on a death bed does wonders to attain Nirvana and enlightenment. In here, our bozo president has been in a rush to reopen. First, he threatened Churches will be full by Easter at a time when even Mr. Poly is following social distancing, LOL. Now, his sidekick in Georgia is reopening by this weekend. The Georgia governor is saying people in his state should follow appropriate social distancing while he is opening salons, tattoo parlors etc. Apparently, barbers and tattoo artists in the state of Georgia have hands longer than 6 feet.
For the last 3 to 4 weeks IHME has been forecasting UK will have the worst death tolls in Europe by the end of summer. At first, it didn't make sense, as at that time, Italy looked awful and yet IHME was saying UK death toll will be almost twice as much as Italy toll. Now, it seems UK indeed did screw up, but then again, we are numero uno in global death tolls. Our latest attempt to make our country great again.
[QUOTE=PayForIt;2445513]Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.
Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021![/QUOTE]Till end of this year? Well if so, UK economy will be destroyed even more than it was before and be ready for China to buy UK for cheap price.
China began to buy up Brent oil that is so low due to covid 19 crisis and failure of OPEC plus, namely Saudi and Russian government.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2445204]Japan need to make image, when many of our best cookers stop with Michelin, they don't need because they are famous all over the world. For me no comparison between Italy and Japan, you fall in love when you are in Italy.[/QUOTE]This is hilarious. It's not even close that Japan is leaps and bounds above Italy in culinary arts. Want simple good food, sure Italy is great. For true culinary art, it's Japan 100 x.
[QUOTE=PayForIt;2445513]Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.
Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021![/QUOTE]In 3 or 4 last days, + 10000 in US, but they are enjoying Florida beaches, they go to religious meetings, God will protect them to catch, when spreading in France started after a religious meeting close to Germany and Switzerland and people returning at home with virus. They also ask to stop confined. Like for free weapons, just danger.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445250]Paris is image thing, it has some nice architecture, but if you actually go there, it is just partly beautiful, in most part it stinks, not clean and full of tourists, not safe. And french people are not so kind hearted especially in Paris..[/QUOTE]Mr Ho,
I often, but not always, agree with your views.
But I think you should look at your own people occasionally before making harsh comments on others.
I love Japan, been there more than 50 times in the last 20 years, longing to be allowed in back, f. 100's of women there. But like all places, like Paris it has its dark sides. Such as open xenophobia: How often did I get the cross arms sign when trying to enter a public place (and not always sex related shops)? And, although this is less the case since a few years, how often did people getting in to the subway tried sitting as far from me as they could? And especially in more remote parts of the country (I have driven all over Japan.), if you don't at least speak a few words, a foreigner just can't get to a traditional restaurant or ryoken. "Japanese Only " sign is just something which would be illegal in most other democracies.
I have made the effort to learn basic Japanese which has changed a lot the way the locals treat me. I don't think many Japanese visiting France have made the same effort, and still they will be accepted in any business.
Cheers!
[QUOTE=PayForIt;2445513]Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.
Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021![/QUOTE]I'm sure social distancing measures will be the norm for many other countries too. That being said, I'm guessing that society will not be shut down in the UK for the rest of 2020. Perhaps capacity limits will be in place and adorning protective gear may be an option. No way British pubs remain completely closed throughout the year right? Right!
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2445543]Well, at least BoJo is going in the right direction if reacting late. Being on a death bed does wonders to attain Nirvana and enlightenment. In here, our bozo president has been in a rush to reopen. First, he threatened Churches will be full by Easter at a time when even Mr. Poly is following social distancing, LOL. Now, his sidekick in Georgia is reopening by this weekend. The Georgia governor is saying people in his state should follow appropriate social distancing while he is opening salons, tattoo parlors etc. Apparently, barbers and tattoo artists in the state of Georgia have hands longer than 6 feet.
For the last 3 to 4 weeks IHME has been forecasting UK will have the worst death tolls in Europe by the end of summer. At first, it didn't make sense, as at that time, Italy looked awful and yet IHME was saying UK death toll will be almost twice as much as Italy toll. Now, it seems UK indeed did screw up, but then again, we are numero uno in global death tolls. Our latest attempt to make our country great again.[/QUOTE]The Biggest failure for USA is the number of newly unemployed, truly horrifying. Trump have to open up the country. Stop destroying the world economy and the lives of millions.
These draconian measures have done more harm than good, let's get smart about it.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445546]Till end of this year? Well if so, UK economy will be destroyed even more than it was before and be ready for China to buy UK for cheap price.
China began to buy up Brent oil that is so low due to covid 19 crisis and failure of OPEC plus, namely Saudi and Russian government.[/QUOTE]Was virus a strategy to spread power?
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445250]Paris is image thing, it has some nice architecture, but if you actually go there, it is just partly beautiful, in most part it stinks, not clean and full of tourists, not safe. And french people are not so kind hearted especially in Paris.
[/QUOTE][URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome[/URL]
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2445563]This is hilarious. It's not even close that Japan is leaps and bounds above Italy in culinary arts. Want simple good food, sure Italy is great. For true culinary art, it's Japan 100 x.[/QUOTE]I will keep on preferring Italy, Spain, Lebanon, than Asian foods.
[QUOTE=TrebleMachine;2445718][URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome[/URL][/QUOTE]Never been to Paris, mainly due to no FKKs. But also because around here it has the reputation of being a bit gay, with men using too much styling of clothes and hair, and acting like desperate once they see a northern girl. So it comes off as trying to impress people in a bit fake manner.
But lately some people also claim that is not the situation any longer too. But with corona, Who knows? We can't even travel anywhere.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2445624]
I love Japan, been there more than 50 times in the last 20 years, longing to be allowed in back, f. 100's of women there. But like all places, like Paris it has its dark sides. Such as open xenophobia: How often did I get the cross arms sign when trying to enter a public place (and not always sex related shops)?[/QUOTE]Salaam Dreams,
If you encounter xenophobia in Paris or Tokyo, just whip out your Qur'an and start chanting. Works wonders for me. If God is on my side, who will be against me?
The modern equivalent would be to cough your way through the door.
The US has a total of less than 1000 deaths in the last 5 days. We have a total of less than 50000 deaths nationwide for the entire pandemic. In a nation of 330,000,000 people. Yes, a lot of us are finished watching politicians grab for power using the pandemic as an excuse, and we are hitting the streets to protest.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2445563]This is hilarious. It's not even close that Japan is leaps and bounds above Italy in culinary arts. Want simple good food, sure Italy is great. For true culinary art, it's Japan 100 x.[/QUOTE]Tongue-in-cheek-article by British author who lives in Italy and is not a fan Italian food:
[QUOTE]"A few months ago, Nigerian migrants housed at a government hostel in Milan suddenly refused to eat any more of the free food on offer. Italian food is monotonous and indigestable, they explained. Then they went berserk."
https://life.spectator.co.uk/articles/even-hunry-migrants-wont-eat-the-food-in-italy/
[/QUOTE]In general, Italians don't have an appreciation for non-Italian food. Older Italians are set in their ways. Italians under age of 25 haven't discovered anything beyond McDonalds yet. Italians between ages of 25-35 are slightly more open-minded perhaps due to instagram and "foodie" culture. But overall, there is not a lot of ethnic food in Italy, besides cheap all you can eat Chinese buffet. Most Italians don't realize that the Chinese customers either order from a completely different menu or they go to different Chinese restaurants where the clientele is 80 percent Chinese. In other words, the average Italians' appreciation of Chinese food, would be the equivalent of one of us judging Romanian beauty based off of a one time visit to an AO club that only had six WGs in their daily LU.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2445499]\NYC's death rate sit at roughly 50-60% the rate of the 13+% death rate countries like UK, Italy, and France. NYC is more dense than any city or country in Europe and their death rate is the highest in the Us.[/QUOTE]Here are the death rates for Germany and Korea: 65 deaths per million, 5 deaths per million.
Korea's health care system is world class, but are you going to tell me it is 13 times better than that of Germany? Of course not, Korea's numbers are low because their government was more prepared and did not underestimate the threat.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2445761]Here are the death rates for Germany and Korea: 65 deaths per million, 5 deaths per million.
Korea's health care system is world class, but are you going to tell me it is 13 times better than that of Germany? Of course not, Korea's numbers are low because their government was more prepared and did not underestimate the threat.[/QUOTE]Definitely not 13 times better if any better at all. I wouldn't dare say that the healthcare system quality and death rates have a true linear correlation. Now the preparedness of the Korean government and its people status post SARS circa 2004 may however have an exponential correlation to their low death rates.
Fact remains, US has one of the highest ICU beds per capita, dialysis machines per capita, ventilators per capita in the world. The fact that we traditionally spend / waste tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars per patient per ICU visit to revive people who will surely survive to only live a poor quality of life has trained our healthcare providers for this outbreak. Our system is built to handle the extremely sick, we're used to high acuity patients. It's just the primary care system and general health of the population where there are holes.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2445717]Was virus a strategy to spread power?[/QUOTE]I do not think China leaked it on purpose, no, they are not that crazy, but they will use it to buy out companies etc to spread power, and they already began, they are buying up rock bottom Brent oil now and their rapid movement in south China sea with battle ship after a US air craft carrier is taken out with virus.
[QUOTE=BodyAnybody;2445746]The US has a total of less than 1000 deaths in the last 5 days. We have a total of less than 50000 deaths nationwide for the entire pandemic. In a nation of 330,000,000 people. Yes, a lot of us are finished watching politicians grab for power using the pandemic as an excuse, and we are hitting the streets to protest.[/QUOTE]Well, actually over 2000 per day, so perhaps you meant 10 K?
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2445743]Salaam Dreams,
If you encounter xenophobia in Paris or Tokyo, just whip out your Qur'an and start chanting. Works wonders for me. If God is on my side, who will be against me?
The modern equivalent would be to cough your way through the door.[/QUOTE]Actually, Japan is one of most pro Muslim nation, we are more neutral toward them. As an example, Japan is one of most understanding of ally of Iran, it is just that Japan is always sandwiched between USA and Saudi Arabia, which both are good friend of Japan, but they both hate Iran, but we try to be intermediary, which is proved to be impossibly hard LOL.
[QUOTE=TrebleMachine;2445718][URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_syndrome[/URL][/QUOTE]Its a nice city, but it is not as good as image they managed to build. French and Italian are best for marketing. I mean look at their fashion industry LOL!. It is quality product, but when they begin selling hand bag for 6000 euro minimum up to half million dollar for Himalayan chroco Hermes bag LOL, it is called best marketing in the world. So it is good quality place, but not as good as they managed to market it.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2445499]All good but I keep just presenting data in the form of rates. Reading the BBC article, it just shows that countries like the UK are underestimating their rates since they are not counting nursing home rates which further makes my case.[/QUOTE]The takeaway from the article:
[QUOTE]For comparisons to be useful, says Rowland Kao, professor of data science at the University of Edinburgh, there are two broad issues to consider.
"Does the underlying data mean the same thing? And does it make sense to compare two sets of numbers if the epidemiology (all the other factors surrounding the spread of the disease) is different?"[/QUOTE]As long as countries test and report differently comparisons won't be useful. Unless you are this clown [URL]https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/04/22/rtx7e5su_custom-83a53661626292123cbf6eb597d8035bd7b40079-s800-c85.jpg[/URL].
[QUOTE=Pistons;2445742]Never been to Paris, mainly due to no FKKs. But also because around here it has the reputation of being a bit gay, with men using too much styling of clothes and hair, and acting like desperate once they see a northern girl. So it comes off as trying to impress people in a bit fake manner.
But lately some people also claim that is not the situation any longer too. But with corona, Who knows? We can't even travel anywhere.[/QUOTE]But Russian, Belarus, Latvian, Estonian, Polish, Croatian escorts, even we lost when closed on 2016 after police raid, probably best escorts agency, Amour Russe.
I think Paris is famous enough all over the world, I don t need to promote. Only Saint Petersburg, Roma, Athens and a bit different but Istanbul and Jerusalem can compete with Paris, I mean for culture. But many of our best cooker and restaurants are in other parts of France. Center and around Lyon are famous for high level restaurants. Most of our best cooker are famous enough and don t need anymore guide Michelin promotion, only useful for those who look for promotion. Paris water is still safe for me, and used by more than 10 millions people around.
But too many deaths, around 21 000 deaths now from covid in France, 80% older than 70 yo and 67% of others with health problems. Confined since 17 March would have saved more than 60 000 life, and only about 5% people were infected, according to our medical staff. Under confined until 11 May, but restart work on field with my teams on 1 April, after getting administration allowances about safety conditions made for guys. But, like me, they are happy to work to have full earning to eat. In France, unemployed are paid 84% but with a limit, I would not be paid 84% of my full earning, so I prefer to work, at same risk with my guys, and to pay tax for my country which should be at least 200 billions deficit at the end of the year. Real crisis. My guys are funny, telling me when they came back after about 2 or 3 weeks: We are better to work, we were bored with wife all day at home. Maybe should have been good time to seduce her again and to fuck her a lot, like a princess, to give her plenty of orgasms, then usually women ask for again, when they often find guys boring for sex.
Dreams, your mailbox is full but I posted a question for you in the FKK Lounge.
[QUOTE=PayForIt;2445513]Hello from the UK! What is going on? We are at the peak. For two weeks we've had 700+ deaths per day (save one day below 500). You are right. We reacted too late, but the big difference between us and say Germany is the awful testing rates.
Announced today in UK. Social distancing measures until end of 2020. So I think the large number of UK guys going to FKKs from the UK (me included) are unlikely to be visiting at all in 2020 whenever they finally reopen. I suspect some will close for good due to the financial bite but hope the big clubs, Sharks, Oase, Artemis, Mainhattan and Palace survive for 2021![/QUOTE]Today I am happy that I have both a UK and Swedish passport. I have stayed in Sweden for the last 2 months so I have avoided the UK lockdown. UK is in a bit of mess battling this but Swedens strategy is terrible in my opinion. It is saved because of the low density of population. Hope Sharks make it so I can go in December, Screw the rest of the clubs.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445788]Its a nice city, but it is not as good as image they managed to build. French and Italian are best for marketing. I mean look at their fashion industry LOL!. It is quality product, but when they begin selling hand bag for 6000 euro minimum up to half million dollar for Himalayan chroco Hermes bag LOL, it is called best marketing in the world. So it is good quality place, but not as good as they managed to market it.[/QUOTE]Paris, Italy are glamour, where is glamour in Asia, or even US now, except Victoria secret. Many Russian escorts go to Dubaï for big money, or to Ibiza for party, but most don't return, but they return to Paris where less money to make, but for fashion. I m happy about that.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446005]Paris, Italy are glamour, where is glamour in Asia,[/QUOTE]It is very locallized in Asia. You can probably never find a single pure glam city. But many cities with a few glam places around Asia. Singapore, Hong Kong and Tokyo of course. But also Shanghai can be very upscale. I only know Singapore and HK very well myself, but have friends in the other two also. Even Bangkok, Beijing and Shenzhen has some upscale places now. All of which I have been to.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446005]Paris, Italy are glamour, where is glamour in Asia, or even US now, except Victoria secret. Many Russian escorts go to Duba for big money, or to Ibiza for party, but most don't return, but they return to Paris where less money to make, but for fashion. I m happy about that.[/QUOTE]Do you know that each Asian nations are different?
Like Kyoto is by far more beautiful than Paris, more safe, more clean as well with better food, but it is different, I like Paris, but I am saying it is over hyped with not good quality, it is more marketing based city, that is Paris.
Where as Japan, Tokyo and Kyoto etc. We don't do marketing much, foreign people did marketing for me and hey it was mostly french fashion industry people who loved Japan and did marketing for us by word of mouth based on quality.
I recommend to be more culturally aware and travel bit more and learn that Asia is not country LOL. There are Japan, China, Thailand, Indonesia etc etc. And they are all completely different.
I am very well traveled, well educated, well cultured guy and I know all European nations are different, and I have been to most European nations both west and east, so learn that Asia is continent and not one country LOL.
France and Japan are actually two biggest partner for most highest culture, it is too sad that in France, only top people in fashion industry and politicians and such knows about this and working class citizens are still limited on knowledge about high quality of Japanese culture even with food you don't know LOL.
I thought Victoria Secrets went bankrupt though. Too hard competition with Wish and Ali-Express I suppose.
But the sad part about Asia is actually how it turns more 'glam'. Because the east Asian idea of glam is more like KTVS. Translation: 'Korny Trivial Vinegar Strokes'. Koreans, Chinese and probably Japanese also have already ruined large parts of SE asia with their imported KTV's: Which are basically over expensive talk-bars where the girls are dressed up in long dresses. And everything is an extra. Plus you need to pay a lot of ladies drinks. Biggest waste of time you do in Asia is ending up in these places. Something I've done in Macau, Bangkok, Manila, Angeles, Changping and Saigon. Only Changping was fine because I skipped all the wasted talk. But that was just before the crackdown. So no more. And some other places I had to use a local as a translator. LOL! That was a bit weird to say the least.
[QUOTE=McGrath;2445984]Swedens strategy is terrible in my opinion. It is saved because of the low density of population.[/QUOTE]It is no more sparse than Texas.
Sweden has achieved similar results to other European countries -- but without any lockdown at all. Its strategy is herd immunity. If this works, then in a couple of weeks time Sweden will enjoy results considerable better than everyone else. Then the other countries will quietly abandon the concept of lockdown and let the economy run free again.
Inshallah!
By the way this is a great resource to see which countries are in lockdown and which are not:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52103747
How can you say that if Japan has one of the lowest if not the lowest Muslim percentage of total population among major countries in the world. Plus, it is not difficult to find reports on Japan trying to avoid Muslim immigrants as much as possible over the past years. On the other hand, why don't you ask the admin to open a sub-forum here which is called: Japan is great.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2445787]Actually, Japan is one of most pro Muslim nation, we are more neutral toward them. As an example, Japan is one of most understanding of ally of Iran, it is just that Japan is always sandwiched between USA and Saudi Arabia, which both are good friend of Japan, but they both hate Iran, but we try to be intermediary, which is proved to be impossibly hard LOL.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2445892]But Russian, Belarus, Latvian, Estonian, Polish, Croatian escorts, even we lost when closed on 2016 after police raid, probably best escorts agency, Amour Russe.
I think Paris is famous enough all over the world, I don t need to promote. Only Saint Petersburg, Roma, Athens and a bit different but Istanbul and Jerusalem can compete with Paris, I mean for culture. [/QUOTE]You started off well. But then you seemed to lost track of what isgers define as culture. Bangkok, Frankfurt, Rio, Macau, Dusseldorf, Prague, Madrid, Barcelona, Bogota, Cali. Now there is some culture!
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2446065]It is no more sparse than Texas.
Sweden has achieved similar results to other European countries -- but without any lockdown at all. Its strategy is herd immunity. If this works, then in a couple of weeks time Sweden will enjoy results considerable better than everyone else. Then the other countries will quietly abandon the concept of lockdown and let the economy run free again.
Inshallah!
By the way this is a great resource to see which countries are in lockdown and which are not:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52103747[/QUOTE]The open strategy works very good here in Sweden.
Estimations show that at least 1/3 of population in Stockholm is immune now. Authorities expect that 50 percent will be immune within one month.
There will probably be a second BIG wave of Corona in autumn. Then lock-down countries are unprotected.
Sweden will be protected by heard immunity.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446096]You started off well. But then you seemed to lost track of what isgers define as culture. Bangkok, Frankfurt, Rio, Macau, Dusseldorf, Prague, Madrid, Barcelona, Bogota, Cali. Now there is some culture![/QUOTE]These are all top destinations, I just wonder which one I will be able to reach first.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446096]You started off well. But then you seemed to lost track of what isgers define as culture. Bangkok, Frankfurt, Rio, Macau, Dusseldorf, Prague, Madrid, Barcelona, Bogota, Cali. Now there is some culture![/QUOTE]I really apologize, I was not on this level of culture for below belt. At the moment, I worry much about crisis than paid sex. When I went weekly, but I manage easy without. No frustration, only big one about no ski. I'm more in hurry to get freedom than paid sex. When open, I go, when closed, I live without, I'm a simple man, easy.
[QUOTE=Downandup;2446157]These are all top destinations, I just wonder which one I will be able to reach first.[/QUOTE]Among Spain, NL, Switzerland, Germany and Austria, I think Austria should open first. Maybe time to discover Vienna, because I don t know how Wellcum and Andiamo can work without Italians, when they are more Italian than Austrian. Maybe before Summer for Austria.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2446129]The open strategy works very good here in Sweden.
Estimations show that at least 1/3 of population in Stockholm is immune now. Authorities expect that 50 percent will be immune within one month.
There will probably be a second BIG wave of Corona in autumn. Then lock-down countries are unprotected.
Sweden will be protected by heard immunity.[/QUOTE]Because you think catching and recovering make immune? Not so sure for weakest. I think we have to live with this virus risk now, kind of Russian roulette.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446171]Because you think catching and recovering make immune? Not so sure for weakest. I think we have to live with this virus risk now, kind of Russian roulette.[/QUOTE]Yes, catching and recovering = immune.
Definitely.
WHO and China spread fake news that there is no immunity.
But there is a Hidden Agenda.
China WANTS the U.S. and Europe to lock-down, so China can gain economic advantages.
New BIG immunity test undertaken in Stockholm will be presented in news tomorrow.
I will then link.
Provisonal estimates show "considerably higher immunity" than Chinese tests (2-3 % immune = fake).
[QUOTE=McGrath;2445984]Today I am happy that I have both a UK and Swedish passport. I have stayed in Sweden for the last 2 months so I have avoided the UK lockdown. UK is in a bit of mess battling this but Swedens strategy is terrible in my opinion. It is saved because of the low density of population. Hope Sharks make it so I can go in December, Screw the rest of the clubs.[/QUOTE]You say that the Swedish strategy is terrible at the same time as you actively have chosen to stay there over the UK. It makes no sense at all. But to be honest, Sweden had the opportunity to stay in lockdown for a month, two or even up to four considering our low national debt. The government was too cheap to do that.
Too bad though that the lockdowns aren't working out especially well in Spain, Italy, France, Belgium, Netherlands, UK, USA, Switzerland and Ireland.
I agree. And I think more and more countries will adopt the Swedish model.
I fear who just want to vaccinate us with some hybrid virus that will make us half sick and ruin our immune systems for the rest of our lives. So funk that!
Better just take the blunt and come out on the other side stronger. If 5% dies, so what? Not like the world will run out of people any time soon.
We probably won't get enough antigens from just one period with the virus. But after 3 or 4 we will see immunity get quite good! So many people will just have to die in the next years.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2446188]Yes, catching and recovering = immune.
Definitely.
WHO and China spread fake news that there is no immunity.
But there is a Hidden Agenda.
China WANTS the U.S. and Europe to lock-down, so China can gain economic advantages..[/QUOTE]Of course, that's why they have been in lockdown too, they wanted to give economic advantages. That's so logic.
Following your logic, maybe you Swedish people are the one with an agenda with your 'no lockdown' strategy.
[QUOTE=McGrath;2445984]Today I am happy that I have both a UK and Swedish passport. I have stayed in Sweden for the last 2 months so I have avoided the UK lockdown. UK is in a bit of mess battling this but Swedens strategy is terrible in my opinion. It is saved because of the low density of population. Hope Sharks make it so I can go in December, Screw the rest of the clubs.[/QUOTE]The Swedish strategy based on minimal restrictions is terrible but yet you stay to enjoy it.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446061]Do you know that each Asian nations are different?
Like Kyoto is by far more beautiful than Paris, more safe, more clean as well with better food, but it is different, I like Paris, but I am saying it is over hyped with not good quality, it is more marketing based city, that is Paris.
Where as Japan, Tokyo and Kyoto etc. We don't do marketing much, foreign people did marketing for me and hey it was mostly french fashion industry people who loved Japan and did marketing for us by word of mouth based on quality.
I recommend to be more culturally aware and travel bit more and learn that Asia is not country LOL. There are Japan, China, Thailand, Indonesia etc etc. And they are all completely different.
I am very well traveled, well educated, well cultured guy and I know all European nations are different, and I have been to most European nations both west and east, so learn that Asia is continent and not one country LOL.
France and Japan are actually two biggest partner for most highest culture, it is too sad that in France, only top people in fashion industry and politicians and such knows about this and working class citizens are still limited on knowledge about high quality of Japanese culture even with food you don't know LOL.[/QUOTE]Don't you know I'm a cheap french guy sleeping in his car to pay FKK entry to eat good foods, but under crisis I'm at work and pay tax for my country when many don't work. What I'm sure is I don't know much of Japan, but you don't know France nor Paris. I learned at school Japan and China are not friends. When I don't like a country or culture, I don't go. Despite crisis, I will run to Italy I love for my holidays, to eat daily pasta, like all along the year, but in Italy, I eat for breakfast, lunch and diner. I think I m only European and wish Western Europe will learn from this crisis and become again more independent for our safety.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446171]Because you think catching and recovering make immune? Not so sure for weakest. I think we have to live with this virus risk now, kind of Russian roulette.[/QUOTE]Or Chinese roulette.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446171]Because you think catching and recovering make immune? Not so sure for weakest. I think we have to live with this virus risk now, kind of Russian roulette.[/QUOTE]It is just that certain part of Europe and USA did not have good medical system enough and also let the situation destroy their medical system, so they could not treat patients with heavy symptoms in hospitals without enough medicines and medical equipment like life supporting system, artificial lung to the extent doctors had to decide who they give these machines too.
If it is in stage of mild symptom within 6 weeks of infections, Avigan can fix you unless you don't have diabetes or cancer or some heavy diseases.
Death rates could have been controlled where as infection rate with this disease is very hard to control as it is easily infected.
In big part, it is typical western ignorance thinking they know it all from the past, even with mask they did not listen till recently.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446212]I agree. And I think more and more countries will adopt the Swedish model.
I fear who just want to vaccinate us with some hybrid virus that will make us half sick and ruin our immune systems for the rest of our lives. So funk that!
Better just take the blunt and come out on the other side stronger. If 5% dies, so what? Not like the world will run out of people any time soon.
We probably won't get enough antigens from just one period with the virus. But after 3 or 4 we will see immunity get quite good! So many people will just have to die in the next years.[/QUOTE]You were criticizing Swedish model before and now news says it begin to show effect and you turn your opinion? LOL.
Swedish model is radical model, which I always said they are smart and they know what they are doing, but it is with too much risk and human life cost too, the best is balanced model. Don't lock it down totally, don't test everybody to keep medical care system active and working for rainy day to come to control death rate.
The most important thing is to save people from dying and without hospitals working properly and no life supporting equipment, medicines like Avigan, artificial lung etc. It will be hard to save people from dying.
Anyways, summer is around corner, so let hope weather may fix the situation temporary. Some claim it can, some say it won't, but time will tell.
[QUOTE=PonyBoy;2446077]How can you say that if Japan has one of the lowest if not the lowest Muslim percentage of total population among major countries in the world. Plus, it is not difficult to find reports on Japan trying to avoid Muslim immigrants as much as possible over the past years. On the other hand, why don't you ask the admin to open a sub-forum here which is called: Japan is great.[/QUOTE]We avoid immigrant in general as it is not good for nation, but we take in some that are chosen arguably. We do not want to experience what happened to Europe, we prefer to do it more control to choose right people.
However, we have many Iranian immigrants by the way and Turkish.
No I don't need to ask, Japan is one of the best reputed nation in the world and this is just based on plain fact. But it is for more intelligent people.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446212]If 5% dies, so what? Not like the world will run out of people any time soon.[/QUOTE]That's what Thanos said. And look what happened to him. Except his figure was 50%. Imagine the economic fallout from that. Yeah we have it lucky.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2446236]Of course, that's why they have been in lockdown too, they wanted to give economic advantages. That's so logic
[/QUOTE]When news of the Wu-flu came out in February, these two possibilities immediately popped into my head:
1. It was started by the US to create chaos in China.
2. It was started by China because they knew they could survive it, but it would target the biggest weakness of their biggest rival: the health system.
It's sort of like when the US started feminism within their own borders because they figured they could survive it but once it spread to other countries those cultures would be hopelessly eroded. The UK is a good example.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446263]Or Chinese roulette.[/QUOTE]Yes, my mistake. But I often dream about mysterious Russia.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2446188]Yes, catching and recovering = immune.
Definitely.
WHO and China spread fake news that there is no immunity.
But there is a Hidden Agenda.
China WANTS the U.S. and Europe to lock-down, so China can gain economic advantages.
New BIG immunity test undertaken in Stockholm will be presented in news tomorrow.
I will then link.
Provisonal estimates show "considerably higher immunity" than Chinese tests (2-3 % immune = fake).[/QUOTE]French doctors are not so sure about recovering giving immunity, when virus not only attack lungs, but also sometimes blood. I don't think world know much about this unknown virus which can mutate, but would be happy if you were right, because world will already have many deaths and big economic crisis.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446212]If 5% dies, so what? Not like the world will run out of people any time soon.
[/QUOTE]It now looks like the actual death rate is more like 0.4%, not 5%.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcFcdrqL7GQ[/URL]
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446212]I agree. And I think more and more countries will adopt the Swedish model.
I fear who just want to vaccinate us with some hybrid virus that will make us half sick and ruin our immune systems for the rest of our lives. So funk that!
Better just take the blunt and come out on the other side stronger. If 5% dies, so what? Not like the world will run out of people any time soon.
We probably won't get enough antigens from just one period with the virus. But after 3 or 4 we will see immunity get quite good! So many people will just have to die in the next years.[/QUOTE]OK. So you're ready to die or to see your family dying?
Or to have your lungs fucked up for the rest of your life?
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446263]Or Chinese roulette.[/QUOTE]Well that Chinese roulette definitely caught up with Spain, Italy and France, most highest death rate nations. It is war level death for these 3 nations.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2446419]OK. So you're ready to die or to see your family dying?
Or to have your lungs fucked up for the rest of your life?[/QUOTE]Already had it myself.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2446395]It now looks like the actual death rate is more like 0.4%, not 5%.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcFcdrqL7GQ[/URL][/QUOTE]But there are different mutations with different severity. And if you get it 3 or 4 times, perhaps some will even die on round 2 or 3 or 4 as well. And finally, it seems to attack people with certain genes harder than others, and many countries don't have the same medical system, nor the same level of wealth. So globally it can still be 5%. Not a single study so far takes even half of these factors into account. And most countries don't even count more than a fraction of the deaths also. They blame other factors.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2446298]That's what Thanos said. And look what happened to him. Except his figure was 50%. Imagine the economic fallout from that. Yeah we have it lucky.[/QUOTE]So I am like 10% of Thanos in strength?
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446300]French doctors are not so sure about recovering giving immunity, when virus not only attack lungs, but also sometimes blood. I don't think world know much about this unknown virus which can mutate, but would be happy if you were right, because world will already have many deaths and big economic crisis.[/QUOTE]OMS also say really not sure for immunity from recovering. Wait and see after confined finished. 11 May in France with about only 5% who were infected, Germany with now 5500 deaths are preparing second wave. US with 55 000 deaths, go to beaches.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446280]It is just that certain part of Europe and USA did not have good medical system enough and also let the situation destroy their medical system, so they could not treat patients with heavy symptoms in hospitals without enough medicines and medical equipment like life supporting system, artificial lung to the extent doctors had to decide who they give these machines too.
If it is in stage of mild symptom within 6 weeks of infections, Avigan can fix you unless you don't have diabetes or cancer or some heavy diseases.
Death rates could have been controlled where as infection rate with this disease is very hard to control as it is easily infected.
In big part, it is typical western ignorance thinking they know it all from the past, even with mask they did not listen till recently.[/QUOTE]If you are not obese, nor diabetic, nor cancer, nor big disease, then you don't have so big risk about virus, so your avigan from Fuiji is useless for me, if you are not weak health, better you recover on your own. When I'm not very sick, I don't take medicine. No proof in France chloroquine really cure virus. I'm sure France and US are not lower medical level than Japan or Germany, but virus is more mirror of society than about medical level. For example: in France, many people kiss people with who they work when they arrive, millions of people can't afford healthcare in US, when Asians are used to masks since before virus. Behavior made the difference versus this virus, much more than medical level. In France, no one died because no free bed, but I thank Germany, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Austria to help us for their 181 beds when a bit improving cases were moved to these countries, to always have free beds for worst cases. Other example: I don't think India or Africa have high medical level and for sure lower than US, France, Spain and Italy, but, and I'm really happy for them when they are so poor and really don't need this crisis, virus seem to prefer to spread when around 10 degrees, not where very cold or very warm, so I'm happy they don't have too many deaths at the moment. I think whole world have to learn from this virus, and yes, France have to be more independent for our health safety, our biggest mistake, when we have best medical level, but so many couldn't be saved, even treated in hospitals with best equipment. Our medical staff was under pressure, now better, but never exploded.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2446419]Or to have your lungs fucked up for the rest of your life?[/QUOTE]That's correct, I am experiencing this particular problem, I hope it gets better with the right treatment.
It is important not to undervalue the consequences of the virus.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446471]OMS also say really not sure for immunity from recovering. Wait and see after confined finished. 11 May in France with about only 5% who were infected, Germany with now 5500 deaths are preparing second wave. US with 55 000 deaths, go to beaches.[/QUOTE]Chinese start to tell what really happened, when they are scared about their politics who hide them the truth, new figure they tell: at least 25.000 deaths only for Wuhan. Far from politics figures below 4000.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446483]If you are not obese, nor diabetic, nor cancer, nor big disease, then you don't have so big risk about virus, so your avigan from Fuiji is useless for me, if you are not weak health, better you recover on your own. When I'm not very sick, I don't take medicine. No proof in France chloroquine really cure virus. I'm sure France and US are not lower medical level than Japan or Germany, but virus is more mirror of society than about medical level. For example: in France, many people kiss people with who they work when they arrive, millions of people can't afford healthcare in US, when Asians are used to masks since before virus. Behavior made the difference versus this virus, much more than medical level. In France, no one died because no free bed, but I thank Germany, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Austria to help us for their 181 beds when a bit improving cases were moved to these countries, to always have free beds for worst cases. Other example: I don't think India or Africa have high medical level and for sure lower than US, France, Spain and Italy, but, and I'm really happy for them when they are so poor and really don't need this crisis, virus seem to prefer to spread when around 10 degrees, not where very cold or very warm, so I'm happy they don't have too many deaths at the moment. I think whole world have to learn from this virus, and yes, France have to be more independent for our health safety, our biggest mistake, when we have best medical level, but so many couldn't be saved, even treated in hospitals with best equipment. Our medical staff was under pressure, now better, but never exploded.[/QUOTE]It is about Hygiene level. Asia is not clean beside Singapore and Japn and little bit south Korea.
Other thing is that not so much in singapoer and south Korea, but in case of Japan, when you enter home, we take our shoes off at the door, this helped a bit and also our Japanese bath culture, we take bath every single day, so it may help a bit too.
Avigan works within six weeks of infections. Germany is using it now and so as some other nations, and to be honest I imagine France too, I cannot be bother to check. I don't care about corona too much, it is not so big here yet, but it can get worst as we still has 20 % free bed in hospital, but if it get lower and heavy symptom get higher, we can destroy medical care system too, but Avigan is working, so usually it does not go to heavy symptom then death. However, it is not vaccines for this, it is for birdflu originally.
As for your comments about cancers, diabetes, fat people etc. It is minority not all people have that, in France it is over 20000 people dead. This is war level number of people and I don't think it is just because they were all cancer, diabetes or fat etc. It is destruction of medical system. France has same level of medical system as Japan, USA or Germany or similar nations, so 20000 death is because hospital was over loaded with patients, some who did not need to come to hospital. It is rather governments fault as they should have restricted who comes to hospitals and who get tested based on symptom to control the visitors of hospitals.
But hey, we got summer coming, so let see if weather fix it temporary or not.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446447]Well that Chinese roulette definitely caught up with Spain, Italy and France, most highest death rate nations. It is war level death for these 3 nations.[/QUOTE]But not for everybody. I am really liking the death graphs for Sweden, Switzerland and Swaziland right now. If they can get this under control, they will set an example to the whole world.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2446618]But not for everybody. I am really liking the death graphs for Sweden, Switzerland and Swaziland right now. If they can get this under control, they will set an example to the whole world.[/QUOTE]It is bit too late for that, those nations who focused on death rate as I have been saying from beginning with preferably balanced lock down and not no lock down or total lock down (which did not work due to crazy death rates in those nations who did), did better at saving lives.
Plus it is to do with medical quality, Avigan works for mild symptom, within first 6 weeks since infection, but Japan cannot produce mega amount in just few weeks, but first 5 million pill are to be dispatch to 20 nations in may and it is free, so people in those 20 nations has access to it and it should be cheap as Japan is giving it for free. Our FKK land Germany is using Avigan as well, so may hope some tutes we knows life if they are infected. This is originally made for bird flu and side effect avoidance is for pregnant women. It can be used for old people etc.
There also is another medicine made by USA which is working, but it is strong one which is originally for Ebola, so I don't know the effect on body. But that is also working on mild symptom.
However, in case like these, beside medicine, usually nations do what they believe is best and they won't listen till things are too late. Even with mask, they did not listen saying it did not work based on usual western narrow minded stereo type that are still 50 years ago, mask is not so much to prevent you from getting infected, but it is more for giving virus to other people, it stop that to great extent.
Additionally, not all nations can produce medical equipment, so those nations who cannot produce their own medical equipment like life supporting system, artificial lungs etc. Had to deal with limited equipment to extent where doctors had to choose who get those equipment or those who should be left to die.
European nations which had high death rates are not industrial top nations, so they cannot produce these equipment as well. Only few can like Germany and UK, even though Dyson was kicked out by UK government after producing them due to violation of contract LOL. But Dyson will sell it abroad apparently.
Like I said from beginning, focus on controlling death rate as controlling infections are too hard beside locking people to some extent.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446212]............I fear who just want to vaccinate us with some hybrid virus that will make us half sick and ruin our immune systems for the rest of our lives. So funk that!.............[/QUOTE]The female English scientist who was the first to test their vaccine died two days later. Four others who allowed themselves to be administered the vaccine are very sick.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2446707]The female English scientist who was the first to test their vaccine died two days later. Four others who allowed themselves to be administered the vaccine are very sick.[/QUOTE]Please ignore this, fake news and lies.
She is alive and well.
Such rubbish written on this and other sites about Covid-19.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2446618]But not for everybody. I am really liking the death graphs for Sweden, Switzerland and Swaziland right now. If they can get this under control, they will set an example to the whole world.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.westernjournal.com/sweden-official-coronavirus-strategy-keeping-country-open-seems-working/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PostTopSharingButtons&utm_campaign=websitesharingbuttons[/URL]
[QUOTE=Turgid;2446707]The female English scientist who was the first to test their vaccine died two days later. Four others who allowed themselves to be administered the vaccine are very sick.[/QUOTE]This post is so wrong! You have been reading fake news, post a link if you have reason to justify this.
[URL]https://fullfact.org/online/elisa-granato-fake/[/URL] Shows the newsfeed from BBC.
[QUOTE=Downandup;2446716]This post is so wrong! You have been reading fake news, post a link if you have reason to justify this.
[URL]https://fullfact.org/online/elisa-granato-fake/[/URL] Shows the newsfeed from BBC.[/QUOTE]You beat me to it! The Ruskies are going to have another field day this fall. Sigh!
[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/uk-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-subject-doing-fine-online-death-rumours-elisa-granato[/URL]
20 % of hospital personnel in Stockholm immune.
And this was among people who had "protected" outfit.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2446749]20 % of hospital personnel in Stockholm immune.
And this was among people who had "protected" outfit.[/QUOTE]Quite interesting, so was there enough PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) in the Swedish medical system? I know in the UK there was a shortage. But they think 20% of all of New York city has had it as well, so the number is not that different even given the different lockdown regimes. I know we are only refering to hospital personnel in Stockholm and not the general population.
But this number can either be much higher than that of the general population, because of exposure or lower since they are taking greater precautions.
However of course New York is a raging epicenter of this pandemic and it is also much more densely populated than Stockholm is.
By immune you are referring to who has tested positive for antibodies, right? I have not read much about this, but a lot of reports seem to indicate that the tests for antibodies are not that reliable, so I hope the actual number is higher so that we do reach herd immunity levels.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2446065]It is no more sparse than Texas.
Sweden has achieved similar results to other European countries -- but without any lockdown at all. Its strategy is herd immunity. If this works, then in a couple of weeks time Sweden will enjoy results considerable better than everyone else. Then the other countries will quietly abandon the concept of lockdown and let the economy run free again.
Inshallah!
By the way this is a great resource to see which countries are in lockdown and which are not:
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-52103747[/QUOTE]Respectfully disagree; Sweden has higher death rate in Europe compared to population. Maybe it was a price worth paying, that's another debate.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2446129]The open strategy works very good here in Sweden.
Estimations show that at least 1/3 of population in Stockholm is immune now. Authorities expect that 50 percent will be immune within one month.
There will probably be a second BIG wave of Corona in autumn. Then lock-down countries are unprotected.
Sweden will be protected by heard immunity.[/QUOTE]Again wrong: Just check what is the percentage of the total population, even in Sweden, has been infected? Below 20 %, when you need 70% for decent "herd immunity" And whether being previously infected does protect is currently not proven. Good luck to my Swedish friends.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2446188]Yes, catching and recovering = immune.
Definitely.
WHO and China spread fake news that there is no immunity.
But there is a Hidden Agenda.
China WANTS the U.S. and Europe to lock-down, so China can gain economic advantages.
New BIG immunity test undertaken in Stockholm will be presented in news tomorrow.
I will then link.
Provisonal estimates show "considerably higher immunity" than Chinese tests (2-3 % immune = fake).[/QUOTE]Please give us links to your sources. About guaranteed immunity? You are surely working in a top virology lab, I guess.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446574]It is about Hygiene level. Asia is not clean beside Singapore and Japn and little bit south Korea.
. It is minority not all people have that, in France it is over 20000 people dead. This is war level number of people and I don't think it is just because they were all cancer, diabetes or fat etc. It is destruction of medical system. France has same level of medical system as Japan, USA or Germany or similar nations, so 20000 death is because hospital was over loaded with patients, some who did not need to come to hospital. It is rather governments fault as they should have restricted who comes to hospitals and who get tested based on symptom to control the visitors of hospitals.
But hey, we got summer coming, so let see if weather fix it temporary or not.[/QUOTE]Absurd comments. Obvioulsy you don't know what "war" levels means. 20000 deaths is I just 5000 more than same period in 2018. So, yes, there was an increase, byt "war level" please.
And is it just fake new that some hospitals in Tokyo are overwhelmed. From a good friend living there since 40 years.
As I said before, I greatly admire Japan, loves (most) Japanese, but you are not one of them, you are just a representative of the small minority who believe they are greater than any other race / human being. GAmbatte Nihon!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446638]It is bit too late for that, those nations who focused on death rate as I have been saying from beginning with preferably balanced lock down and not no lock down or total lock down (which did not work due to crazy death rates in those nations who did), did better at saving lives.
Plus it is to do with medical quality, Avigan works for mild symptom, within first 6 weeks since infection, but Japan cannot produce mega amount in just few weeks, but first 5 million pill are to be dispatch to 20 nations in may and it is free, so people in those 20 nations has access to it and it should be cheap as Japan is giving it for free. Our FKK land Germany is using Avigan as well, so may hope some tutes we knows life if they are infected. This is originally made for bird flu and side effect avoidance is for pregnant women. It can be used for old people etc.
There also is another medicine made by USA which is working, but it is strong one which is originally for Ebola, so I don't know the effect on body. But that is also working on mild symptom.
However, in case like these, beside medicine, usually nations do what they believe is best and they won't listen till things are too late. Even with mask, they did not listen saying it did not work based on usual western narrow minded stereo type that are still 50 years ago, mask is not so much to prevent you from getting infected, but it is more for giving virus to other people, it stop that to great extent.
Additionally, not all nations can produce medical equipment, so those nations who cannot produce their own medical equipment like life supporting system, artificial lungs etc. Had to deal with limited equipment to extent where doctors had to choose who get those equipment or those who should be left to die..[/QUOTE]Please give us a link to the clinical tral proving that Avigan works. For the record 99.5% of all people inflected recover without any treatment. So does your miracle drug increase to, what, 99.9%.
[QUOTE=Canary;2446713]Please ignore this, fake news and lies.
She is alive and well.
Such rubbish written on this and other sites about Covid-19.[/QUOTE]Sadly true. Would be laughable if not so sad.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2446749]20 % of hospital personnel in Stockholm immune.
And this was among people who had "protected" outfit.[/QUOTE]20% in people exposed 1000 times more to the virus that you and me.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2446720]You beat me to it! The Ruskies are going to have another field day this fall. Sigh!
[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/uk-coronavirus-vaccine-trial-subject-doing-fine-online-death-rumours-elisa-granato[/URL][/QUOTE]I've been searching through my fb page to determine which media outlet I got that news item from without success. They must have removed it. A pity as I would like to unfollow whichever it was.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2446768]20% in people exposed 1000 times more to the virus that you and me.[/QUOTE]Well done, Dreams!
I really praise your effort to review and correct this and several other arbitrary and incorrect statements written on this subject by fellow forum members.
I agree with all yours, which are based on facts and valid sources.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446638]It is bit too late for that, those nations who focused on death rate as I have been saying from beginning with preferably balanced lock down and not no lock down or total lock down (which did not work due to crazy death rates in those nations who did), did better at saving lives.
Plus it is to do with medical quality, Avigan works for mild symptom, within first 6 weeks since infection, but Japan cannot produce mega amount in just few weeks, but first 5 million pill are to be dispatch to 20 nations in may and it is free, so people in those 20 nations has access to it and it should be cheap as Japan is giving it for free. Our FKK land Germany is using Avigan as well, so may hope some tutes we knows life if they are infected. This is originally made for bird flu and side effect avoidance is for pregnant women. It can be used for old people etc.
There also is another medicine made by USA which is working, but it is strong one which is originally for Ebola, so I don't know the effect on body. But that is also working on mild symptom.
However, in case like these, beside medicine, usually nations do what they believe is best and they won't listen till things are too late. Even with mask, they did not listen saying it did not work based on usual western narrow minded stereo type that are still 50 years ago, mask is not so much to prevent you from getting infected, but it is more for giving virus to other people, it stop that to great extent..[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, UK may be above 40.000 deaths, France now above 30.000, with only 6% infected = 0,8 % death rate, with 80% older than 70. US don't really know about millions without insurance and illegals, but poverty kill. I confirm figures are not so much about medical power and potential, but much more about how we live, really mirror for society. Asians already experienced and are used to masks, but we will discover more reliable figures in China. Not so sure recovering make immunity for some, but we will judge in future.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2446768]20% in people exposed 1000 times more to the virus that you and me.[/QUOTE]That is what I think as well, in that case the optimistic projections of herd immunity by having this relaxed lockdown policy did not come to fruition. If you actually look at [URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL] and then sort by deaths per 1 M population, the death rate in Sweden is actually not low relatively speaking, it is higher in some European countries but in most of these cases the countries were far more densely populated or affected on a larger scale much earlier on when the severity of the pandemic was not sufficiently recognized.
I actually hope that most estimates of the number of people with antibodies are undercounts since the testing for antibodies does not seem sufficiently reliable, I do hope it is an undercount not an over estimate.
However this death toll has not resulted in higher levels of immunity based upon just this figure alone, maybe there is more to this than the figure above.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446574]It is about Hygiene level. Asia is not clean beside Singapore and Japn and little bit south Korea.
Other thing is that not so much in singapoer and south Korea, but in case of Japan, when you enter home, we take our shoes off at the door, this helped a bit and also our Japanese bath culture, we take bath every single day, so it may help a bit too.
Avigan works within six weeks of infections. Germany is using it now and so as some other nations, and to be honest I imagine France too, I cannot be bother to check. I don't care about corona too much, it is not so big here yet, but it can get worst as we still has 20 % free bed in hospital, but if it get lower and heavy symptom get higher, we can destroy medical care system too, but Avigan is working, so usually it does not go to heavy symptom then death. However, it is not vaccines for this, it is for birdflu originally.
As for your comments about cancers, diabetes, fat people etc. It is minority not all people have that, in France it is over 20000 people dead. This is war level number of people and I don't think it is just because they were all cancer, diabetes or fat etc. It is destruction of medical system. France has same level of medical system as Japan, USA or Germany or similar nations, so 20000 death is because hospital was over loaded with patients, some who did not need to come to hospital. It is rather governments fault as they should have restricted who comes to hospitals and who get tested based on symptom to control the visitors of hospitals.
But hey, we got summer coming, so let see if weather fix it temporary or not.[/QUOTE]Arithmetic: only about 6% infected in France = 4 millions, can become a problem after confined on 11 May, about 30.000 deaths unfortunately = 0,8 % death rate. 80 % older than 70 and 67% of others had disease making weak to virus, so around 2000 deaths with no reason known before virus. Some make violent reaction under virus. Unfortunately, like in US or UK, we are discovering more and more obese and diabetic in France, under MacDo and Cola, weak versus virus. France never missed free beds, moving improving cases to make free for worst cases. 181 were moved out of France. No proof chloroquine is efficient versus virus, I don't hear about avigan in France, but most of deaths were not so healthy before virus. I think being healthy is best medicine versus virus, even more efficient than mask. Masks are more not to infect others. Many were infected and didn't even know about.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2446765]Absurd comments. Obvioulsy you don't know what "war" levels means. 20000 deaths is I just 5000 more than same period in 2018. So, yes, there was an increase, byt "war level" please.
And is it just fake new that some hospitals in Tokyo are overwhelmed. From a good friend living there since 40 years.
As I said before, I greatly admire Japan, loves (most) Japanese, but you are not one of them, you are just a representative of the small minority who believe they are greater than any other race / human being. GAmbatte Nihon![/QUOTE]I think smoking kill about 70/000 per year in France. I was surprised nicotine could protect versus virus which not develop so fast for smokers.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2446760]Again wrong: Just check what is the percentage of the total population, even in Sweden, has been infected? Below 20 %, when you need 70% for decent "herd immunity" And whether being previously infected does protect is currently not proven. Good luck to my Swedish friends.[/QUOTE]It can't be easy living life in fear. I feel sorry for the rest of you that are imprisoned in your own homes thanks to a failed lockdown by politicians that are afraid to lose the next election.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2446821]That is what I think as well, in that case the optimistic projections of herd immunity by having this relaxed lockdown policy did not come to fruition. If you actually look at [URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL] and then sort by deaths per 1 M population, the death rate in Sweden is actually not low relatively speaking, it is higher in some European countries but in most of these cases the countries were far more densely populated or affected on a larger scale much earlier on when the severity of the pandemic was not sufficiently recognized.
I actually hope that most estimates of the number of people with antibodies are undercounts since the testing for antibodies does not seem sufficiently reliable, I do hope it is an undercount not an over estimate.
However this death toll has not resulted in higher levels of immunity based upon just this figure alone, maybe there is more to this than the figure above.[/QUOTE]Almost all of Western Europe is worse off than Sweden comparing deaths per million. Belgium, San Marino, Andorra, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Netherlands. Ireland and Switzerland are barely better off but paid a big price and it honestly wasn't worth it.
Sweden have counted more deaths outside of hospitals than many other countries. The numbers you are comparing aren't accurate. Which means that you're drawing false conclusions.
In Sweden more people are worried about the economy and we are not willing to sacrifice our economy and quality of life to do a lockdown that haven't produced any good results in other countries.
The countries that have had a lockdown have to open back up, and that's a real challenge!
I honestly don't understand the obsession comparing different countries, especially considering that it's not over yet and there are more factors to take into consideration than the number of deaths. The economy for example.
To wait for a vaccine is rather naive. Throughout human history the weak ones have died, nowadays people want to play God and can't accept the death of people over 70 and other weak humans.
Damn it, did the World go this mad during the HK flu?
[QUOTE=Dreams;2446759]Respectfully disagree; Sweden has higher death rate in Europe compared to population. Maybe it was a price worth paying, that's another debate.[/QUOTE]Sweden has a lower death rate than many other countries countries in Europe: Belgium, San Marino, Andorra, France, Italy, Spain, Netherlands and the UK. Switzerland and Ireland are barely better off.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2446821]If you actually look at [URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL] and then sort by deaths per 1 M population, the death rate in Sweden is actually not low relatively speaking, it is higher in some European countries but in most of these cases the countries were far more densely populated or affected on a larger scale much earlier on when the severity of the pandemic was not sufficiently recognized.[/QUOTE]In addition to your suggestion to sort by deaths per million, I also sorted by infections per million. Despite the relaxed policy, Sweden's infections per million is lower than most of the larger countries in Western Europe. It could be that Swedish people are just more disciplined when it comes to isolating themselves, despite businesses being open. California is on lockdown, but just this past weekend there were huge crowds at Newport Beach. But as you said, Sweden is densely populated, relatively remote, and was affected later.
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2446857]Almost all of Western Europe is worse off than Sweden comparing deaths per million. Belgium, San Marino, Andorra, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Netherlands. Ireland and Switzerland are barely better off but paid a big price and it honestly wasn't worth it.
Sweden have counted more deaths outside of hospitals than many other countries. The numbers you are comparing aren't accurate. Which means that you're drawing false conclusions.
In Sweden more people are worried about the economy and we are not willing to sacrifice our economy and quality of life to do a lockdown that haven't produced any good results in other countries.
The countries that have had a lockdown have to open back up, and that's a real challenge!
I honestly don't understand the obsession comparing different countries, especially considering that it's not over yet and there are more factors to take into consideration than the number of deaths. The economy for example.
To wait for a vaccine is rather naive. Throughout human history the weak ones have died, nowadays people want to play God and can't accept the death of people over 70 and other weak humans.
Damn it, did the World go this mad during the HK flu?[/QUOTE]I posted the link, just check the figures yourself, sort by deaths per million. Look at Germany, Austria, Switzerland is lower but lets take a country with a similar known infection count and a strict lockdown regime, Czechia, it has a dramatically lower death rate.
All you have to do is sort by that column on the graph, most of Western Europe has a lower mortality rate per population which is what you would expect with a more relaxed lockdown regime.
If herd immunity is actually happening more quickly because of this, there would be a plausible argument for this. But this hasn't been established yet.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446811]Unfortunately, UK may be above 40.000 deaths, France now above 30.000, with only 6% infected = 0,8 % death rate, with 80% older than 70. US don't really know about millions without insurance and illegals, but poverty kill. I confirm figures are not so much about medical power and potential, but much more about how we live, really mirror for society. Asians already experienced and are used to masks, but we will discover more reliable figures in China. Not so sure recovering make immunity for some, but we will judge in future.[/QUOTE]As I mentioned former communist states like China, Russia or current communist state like north Korea cannot be trusted, in political arena in slung term, these nations are known as red team and they often openly lie even in foreign affairs field.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446828]Arithmetic: only about 6% infected in France = 4 millions, can become a problem after confined on 11 May, about 30.000 deaths unfortunately = 0,8 % death rate. 80 % older than 70 and 67% of others had disease making weak to virus, so around 2000 deaths with no reason known before virus. Some make violent reaction under virus. Unfortunately, like in US or UK, we are discovering more and more obese and diabetic in France, under MacDo and Cola, weak versus virus. France never missed free beds, moving improving cases to make free for worst cases. 181 were moved out of France. No proof chloroquine is efficient versus virus, I don't hear about avigan in France, but most of deaths were not so healthy before virus. I think being healthy is best medicine versus virus, even more efficient than mask. Masks are more not to infect others. Many were infected and didn't even know about.[/QUOTE]Well French food are pretty creamy and rich in butter and yeah maybe on top of that arrival of American food has helped to make people diabetics, but just death numbers are crazy, it is war level death rate.
There also is speculation, like in Japan, when we are born, it is mandatory to take BCG vaccines by force, so there is speculation that it has something to do with not making condition worst if you are infected with corona virus.
Bottom line is nobody knows, and we have avigan and one more medicine till vaccines arrives in about 1.5 years they say, and both medicines at least avigan is in mass production right now and also hopefully weather in summer may calm corona down a bit, so fingers cross and stay home.
Whatta strange era we get to experience.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2446765]Absurd comments. Obvioulsy you don't know what "war" levels means. 20000 deaths is I just 5000 more than same period in 2018. So, yes, there was an increase, byt "war level" please.
And is it just fake new that some hospitals in Tokyo are overwhelmed. From a good friend living there since 40 years.
As I said before, I greatly admire Japan, loves (most) Japanese, but you are not one of them, you are just a representative of the small minority who believe they are greater than any other race / human being. GAmbatte Nihon![/QUOTE]Learn to read carefully LOL. Hospitals in Japan are not over loaded, we still have about 20 % bed kept free for second wave of pandemic, we are very prepared race. I was referring to hospitals in some western nations being over whelmed and their health care system no longer functioning due to not enough equipment. Hospitals in Japan are fine because we controlled people allowed to be admitted to hospitals to protect medical care system and also first step of aid for mild symptom here is immune system and lock down in house or hotel, then if lung begin to show the slight danger then we use avigan, which seems to work within 6 weeks.
As for Avigan, you research yourself, I cannot be bother to educate you, but for instance Germany is using it as their choice of medicine, it is just that we are producing it for world now, it takes sometime, and first dispatch is in May as I mentioned for free, and it is to selected 20 nations Germany included. You are very white centric, Japan has one of leading medical knowledge, know how, track record, companies and related in world, so if you or your loved ones get infected, I recommend Avigan if you are not pregnant, it is on the way, but it is not cure, it is to prevent you from getting worst and it is working here. But do what you want, Japan is taking international responsibility as we have since day one of this pandemic which we had before west because China is right next to Japan.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2446874]I posted the link, just check the figures yourself, sort by deaths per million. Look at Germany, Austria, Switzerland is lower but lets take a country with a similar known infection count and a strict lockdown regime, Czechia, it has a dramatically lower death rate.
All you have to do is sort by that column on the graph, most of Western Europe has a lower mortality rate per population which is what you would expect with a more relaxed lockdown regime.
If herd immunity is actually happening more quickly because of this, there would be a plausible argument for this. But this hasn't been established yet.[/QUOTE]Mortality rate per population is actually more important than just death rate, but death rates in Europe are war level numbers as if they did not care enough if these people die or did not take it seriously or not organized enough, which resulted in such war level death rates.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2446765]Absurd comments. Obvioulsy you don't know what "war" levels means. 20000 deaths is I just 5000 more than same period in 2018. So, yes, there was an increase, byt "war level" please.
And is it just fake new that some hospitals in Tokyo are overwhelmed. From a good friend living there since 40 years.
As I said before, I greatly admire Japan, loves (most) Japanese, but you are not one of them, you are just a representative of the small minority who believe they are greater than any other race / human being. GAmbatte Nihon![/QUOTE]If You write about France, Macron used word war when confined was decided. A German politics answered it was not war because nobody kill others. But killer virus. When we know Chinese figures are not reliable, but Chinese start to tell what they saw, and they were not informed about what really happened, new figures now about 25000 deaths only for Wuhan. But in any country, figures at the moment are only deaths known from healthcare, not all those who died at home, will need time to know for them. For example in France, a 92 yo woman with weak health caught virus, her doctor decided not to send her to hospital, because he knew she couldn't not resist, he thought it was better to let her die at home in her bed. Many who arrived in hospitals were too weak to be saved, lungs were killed. In US, so many with no insurance, so many lost job and insurance, so many illegals, who won't go to healthcare, so I trust much more US than Asia, but how could they really know how many deaths? Future will tell for Asian, not only Chinese, figures, when world will reopen, I don't know when, but for sure before Olympics to come. When small NL and Sweden decided not to kill their economy, I don't know for them, but I'm afraid many will die or fall in poverty from economic crisis where we are falling from no tourism, even not in Amsterdam for coffee shops or Stockholm, no transport, Air France need billions from France, KLN need from NL, Lufthansa need from Germany, I think US help US airlines for about 50 billions USD, no car sold, even no Volvo, construction nearly stopped. Unemployment growing, poverty growing, this will also kill in future, maybe more than virus.
Well, I just thought this was interesting:
[URL]http://republicbroadcasting.org/news/vimeo-bans-documentary-exposing-big-pharmas-influence-within-the-world-health-organization/[/URL]
I do not think covid 19 is harmless. But I know the vaccine will be worse.
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2446857]Almost all of Western Europe is worse off than Sweden comparing deaths per million. Belgium, San Marino, Andorra, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Netherlands. Ireland and Switzerland are barely better off but paid a big price and it honestly wasn't worth it.
Sweden have counted more deaths outside of hospitals than many other countries. The numbers you are comparing aren't accurate. Which means that you're drawing false conclusions.
In Sweden more people are worried about the economy and we are not willing to sacrifice our economy and quality of life to do a lockdown that haven't produced any good results in other countries.
The countries that have had a lockdown have to open back up, and that's a real challenge!
I honestly don't understand the obsession comparing different countries, especially considering that it's not over yet and there are more factors to take into consideration than the number of deaths. The economy for example.
To wait for a vaccine is rather naive. Throughout human history the weak ones have died, nowadays people want to play God and can't accept the death of people over 70 and other weak humans.
Damn it, did the World go this mad during the HK flu?[/QUOTE]France, Italy and Spain are the worst three for medical system when it comes to crisis management. Death rates in these nations are just unbelievable to call themselves civilized nation, it is war level death rates in those nations.
Sad, but crazy how they managed to mess up so good.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2446768]20% in people exposed 1000 times more to the virus that you and me.[/QUOTE]No.
I am much more exposed than personnel (this means All persoennel at hospital), since I travel with Metro, go in shops, and walk among people etc, without any protection at all.
It's important to know that each country is counting Coronavirus deaths using their own different methodology and at varying pace.
Look at Belgium which has the highest death rate around the world - 631 per million. But they are also being very aggressive in counting anyone who could possibly have died from Coronavirus and count everyone who died everywhere.
Compare that to the UK where it's 317 deaths per million but that only counts those who have died in hospital. It does not count those who have died of coronavirus in rest homes or in the community. Also the Office of National Statistics latest report is up to April 17 as it takes time for death certificates to be recorded. It reports that deaths are double the five year average. So not all deaths that could be related to coronavirus are being counted. The real death toll in the UK could be 45,000 and still be climbing.
Then there are counties where pneumonia deaths are unusually high but there's been few deaths from coronavirus.
I'm using this link for the reporting: [URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/[/URL].
[QUOTE=Downandup;2447004]It's important to know that each country is counting Coronavirus deaths using their own different methodology and at varying pace.
Look at Belgium which has the highest death rate around the world - 631 per million. But they are also being very aggressive in counting anyone who could possibly have died from Coronavirus and count everyone who died everywhere.
Compare that to the UK where it's 317 deaths per million but that only counts those who have died in hospital. It does not count those who have died of coronavirus in rest homes or in the community. Also the Office of National Statistics latest report is up to April 17 as it takes time for death certificates to be recorded. It reports that deaths are double the five year average. So not all deaths that could be related to coronavirus are being counted. The real death toll in the UK could be 45,000 and still be climbing.
Then there are counties where pneumonia deaths are unusually high but there's been few deaths from coronavirus.
I'm using this link for the reporting: [URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/[/URL].[/QUOTE]This is true, statistics are tricky, and it is hard to equate them 100 percent. In your example, Belgian is an outlier in how it counts its mortality rate, I had read about this and this explains why Belgium's rate is much higher than the Netherlands. However most of the measures are broadly similar and when you see compare outliers you can notice interesting things.
This pandemic has taught us a lot, for example, the German health care system is far more effective than that of France, Italy, Spain and the UK. I am now comparing large countries, the mortality rate figures do not use the exact same methodology, but the numbers are so far apart it is very hard to deny that the Germans have handled this very well.
I like comparing like for like and not completely different countries for the reasons you quoted. In this way it is interesting to note why Belgium's figures were so high and you are right, it is not indicative of policy or its health care system. I was also interesting to compare Switzerland and Austria, Austria has handled this quite a bit better than Switzerland, which has a private health care system, you can draw your own conclusions but I have long thought that the public system in German and Austria is a lot better than the private on in Switzerland. However the private system in Switzerland seems to be a hell of a lot better than the public one in the UK.
About the different lock down regimes, Switzerland has a relatively lax one and Czechia has a very strict one and the statistics will show glaring differences. When you compare countries you do have to be careful and I have had a keen interest in Statistics for over 30 years and I try to be careful.
I am surprised by the slow progression of the disease in Japan given the population density it has, but even though I do not find our infamous Japanese's mongers explanation convincing, it does sound like a nationalist diatribe, however I think he has a point that social distancing is a cultural norm anyhow in Japan and that is what is keeping the numbers down. For sure their statistics might not be comparable, but the discrepancies are too large.
But if you do not compare countries, then how could you ever infer the difference in outcomes from different policies?
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2446857].....................Damn it, did the World go this mad during the HK flu?[/QUOTE]The Hong Kong flu killed over one million people world wide. It struck in two waves with the second wave being worse than the first. It first struck in 1968 and finally completely subsided in 1972. I remember it well I was a teenager back then. I remember there being a lot of talk about it but it was no big deal. Within two weeks of its emergence in July in Hong Kong, some 500,000 cases of illness had been reported. The summer Olympics was held in Mexico in October,1968. Woodstock (crowd of over 400,000), which I wanted to attend was in 1969 but my parents wanted me to come with the family on Caribbean cruise which we did in the summer of that year.
I think the difference between back then and now is firstly, there are many more people in the world today and international travel is greater now so that disease spread is easier and more rapid. Furthermore the world is much more politicized now and leaders retaining their position in government is highly dependent on containing the virus within their respective countries. Sweden's approach is worth study and reminiscent of 1968-70; what is interesting is that its death rate via covid 19 is less than most other European countries with severe lockdowns.
Singapore University of Technology and Design has a set of predictions on when coronavirus might end worldwide and for many counties.
[URL]https://ddi.sutd.edu.sg/when-will-covid-19-end[/URL]
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446831]I think smoking kill about 70/000 per year in France. I was surprised nicotine could protect versus virus which not develop so fast for smokers.[/QUOTE]Nicotine may protect smokers against the risk to catch it. One does not know yet really how good and efficient is this protection, and how much you need to have smoked.
But what is 100% sure is that once a smoker gets it, his risks of having severe pneumonia and death are much higher. Based on hose facts, everyone can choose and decide what to do or not to do.
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2446849]It can't be easy living life in fear. I feel sorry for the rest of you that are imprisoned in your own homes thanks to a failed lockdown by politicians that are afraid to lose the next election.[/QUOTE]Not sure how this relates to my post.
But if you had been in Bergamo end of March you may have changed your mind.
Anyway, I have worked in Sweden many years, and know well the Swedish mentality, very friendly, I liked my time there, but terribly arrogant, they always know better. I was there when Olof Palme was assassinated. They always thought that this kind of things could never happen in their wonderful free society. And could only happen in the uncivilized parts of the world I. E south of Malmoe. Same about them teaching us, those guys living near the Mediterranean, how we should treat better our North Africans immigrants. Now look at the mess they are in with their own, Malmoe is a no-go area.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446904]Learn to read carefully LOL. Hospitals in Japan are not over loaded, we still have about 20 % bed kept free for second wave of pandemic, we are very prepared race. I was referring to hospitals in some western nations being over whelmed and their health care system no longer functioning due to not enough equipment. Hospitals in Japan are fine because we controlled people allowed to be admitted to hospitals to protect medical care system and also first step of aid for mild symptom here is immune system and lock down in house or hotel, then if lung begin to show the slight danger then we use avigan, which seems to work within 6 weeks.
As for Avigan, you research yourself, I cannot be bother to educate you, but for instance Germany is using it as their choice of medicine, it is just that we are producing it for world now, it takes sometime, and first dispatch is in May as I mentioned for free, and it is to selected 20 nations Germany included. You are very white centric, Japan has one of leading medical knowledge, know how, track record, companies and related in world, so if you or your loved ones get infected, I recommend Avigan if you are not pregnant, it is on the way, but it is not cure, it is to prevent you from getting worst and it is working here. But do what you want, Japan is taking international responsibility as we have since day one of this pandemic which we had before west because China is right next to Japan.[/QUOTE]Its not by repeating endlessly the same lies that it make them true.
Still waiting for the scientific links proving efficacy of Avigan, in which patients (young, old, mild, severe).
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446906]Mortality rate per population is actually more important than just death rate, but death rates in Europe are war level numbers as if they did not care enough if these people die or did not take it seriously or not organized enough, which resulted in such war level death rates.[/QUOTE]Please define "war levels".
Vietnam war? 50000.
Holocaust? 6.000.000.
First WW: 10 Millions.
Japanese invasion of China? (200000 Chinese casualties just in Shanghai).
[QUOTE=Pistons;2446971]But I know the vaccine will be worse.[/QUOTE]Blessed those who know.
It will be your human right to refuse the vaccine. But it will other's right to stop you travelling if you are not vaccinated. I, for sure would refuse to deal with people like you, and I believe I will be part of a huge majority. And last, of course, as an ICU doctor, I would refuse to treat you, should you come to my unit with respiratory distress.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2447002]No.
I am much more exposed than personnel (this means All persoennel at hospital), since I travel with Metro, go in shops, and walk among people etc, without any protection at all.[/QUOTE]Did you ever heard about something called "viral charge"? The risk of contamination is proportional to the amount of virus excreted. People who go to hospital are sick, by definition and excrete far more viruses that the 5-10 % who maybe infected in the subway.
[QUOTE=Downandup;2447014]Singapore University of Technology and Design has a set of predictions on when coronavirus might end worldwide and for many counties.
[URL]https://ddi.sutd.edu.sg/when-will-covid-19-end[/URL][/QUOTE]Interesting. I mostly agree with it, the only caveat is that all those models are based on the "current " situation staying the same all along. If something change, then it's wrong. For instance, at the beginning of the VIH epidemic, projections were for 8 billions people to die by 2000. But of course, with prevention and treatment being implemented / found, that did not really happen.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447016]Nicotine may protect smokers against the risk to catch it.[/QUOTE]I seriously doubt that to be true.
I had someone tell me the other day that a 20 year old girl died from coronavirus, so the coronavirus is dangerous for young people as well. I asked "did she have any health problems prior to that"? They replied no, no health problems, she was completely healthy.
Later I found out the girl had bad asthma all her life.
My guess is this smoker "study" is also not giving all the details.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2447008]This is true, statistics are tricky, and it is hard to equate them 100 percent. In your example, Belgian is an outlier in how it counts its mortality rate, I had read about this and this explains why Belgium's rate is much higher than the Netherlands. However most of the measures are broadly similar and when you see compare outliers you can notice interesting things.
This pandemic has taught us a lot, for example, the German health care system is far more effective than that of France, Italy, Spain and the UK. I am now comparing large countries, the mortality rate figures do not use the exact same methodology, but the numbers are so far apart it is very hard to deny that the Germans have handled this very well.
I like comparing like for like and not completely different countries for the reasons you quoted. In this way it is interesting to note why Belgium's figures were so high and you are right, it is not indicative of policy or its health care system. I was also interesting to compare Switzerland and Austria, Austria has handled this quite a bit better than Switzerland, which has a private health care system, you can draw your own conclusions but I have long thought that the public system in German and Austria is a lot better than the private on in Switzerland. However the private system in Switzerland seems to be a hell of a lot better than the public one in the UK.[/QUOTE]Yeah, the temptation to read to too much from Corona death tolls on nationalistic lines is misleading, sometimes jingoistic and just plain nonsensical. Asian nations have been used to fighting respiratory viruses for a while and took this seriously, locked down very early and prevented deaths. Taiwan, being Chinese Formosa, has had 430 cases in total -- right on China's door step. Just 6 people died, as compared to 385 in Japan -- Japan does have 5 times as many people, but still adjusted per population, Taiwan has fared much better.
Vietnam, another country in the vicinity, has had less than 300 cases and zero deaths. Vietnam has 95 million people, only 31 M less than Japan population. Our friend has a habit of dismissing countries he does not like as showing unreliable data, not believable etc, but I think it is clear that Vietnam and Taiwan have controlled it better. Some reasons are obvious. Their populations are more docile and do not question or flout government rules, lockdowns actually work as intended, infected people were forcibly detained in government facilities in Vietnam when they had the virus, their healthcare facilities were on high alert from the beginning of the outbreak and so on. Yes, the US got caught with its pants down this time but if a vaccine or cure comes, it will be American or German / English or some other Western European. I expect France to also cope well with any future virus breaks, and Italy and Spain to do much better than this one. But if corona deaths are the sole indicators of a country's healthcare system, does anyone think Vietnam has a better one than Italy? Next time you become sick, where would you rather be? Italy or Vietnam?
As for the overall tone about Japan, I pointed out once before that GDP per capita in Japan is $39.2 K, only $5 K more than Italy's and $8,000 less than German per capita GDP and $23 K less than US per capita $62.5 K (World bank -- easily seen o Google search). Our friend countered with China having large GDP only due to large population and missed the point that these are *per capita*; Yes, Japan is an important ally, and is an important country in Asia with some Western democratic values and a good counter to have against rising China. But from American pov, it is China and its strength which is a huge concern to our president, our businesses and our population these days.
[QUOTE=Downandup;2447014]Singapore University of Technology and Design has a set of predictions on when coronavirus might end worldwide and for many counties.
[URL]https://ddi.sutd.edu.sg/when-will-covid-19-end[/URL][/QUOTE]According to these projections the end of the epidemic in Germany is expected around 6th June, so on the 7th June we may be able to be hand-in-hand with our favourite girl again on our way to the room! LOL.
Rock.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447016]Nicotine may protect smokers against the risk to catch it. One does not know yet really how good and efficient is this protection, and how much you need to have smoked.
But what is 100% sure is that once a smoker gets it, his risks of having severe pneumonia and death are much higher. Based on hose facts, everyone can choose and decide what to do or not to do.[/QUOTE]I think in USA, Trump has clamped down on the sale of nicotine patches. Maybe just with OTC sales, not sure.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447016]Nicotine may protect smokers against the risk to catch it. One does not know yet really how good and efficient is this protection, and how much you need to have smoked.
But what is 100% sure is that once a smoker gets it, his risks of having severe pneumonia and death are much higher. Based on hose facts, everyone can choose and decide what to do or not to do.[/QUOTE]I was really surprised when heard French doctors, because for me, smoking kill, but not many smokers died from virus, I think only around 15% of deaths, when they should have bad lungs. Maybe also old don't smoke much. I think also more men than women die.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2447010]The Hong Kong flu killed over one million people world wide. It struck in two waves with the second wave being worse than the first. It first struck in 1968 and finally completely subsided in 1972. I remember it well I was a teenager back then. I remember there being a lot of talk about it but it was no big deal. Within two weeks of its emergence in July in Hong Kong, some 500,000 cases of illness had been reported. The summer Olympics was held in Mexico in October,1968. Woodstock (crowd of over 400,000), which I wanted to attend was in 1969 but my parents wanted me to come with the family on Caribbean cruise which we did in the summer of that year.
I think the difference between back then and now is firstly, there are many more people in the world today and international travel is greater now so that disease spread is easier and more rapid. Furthermore the world is much more politicized now and leaders retaining their position in government is highly dependent on containing the virus within their respective countries. Sweden's approach is worth study and reminiscent of 1968-70; what is interesting is that its death rate via covid 19 is less than most other European countries with severe lockdowns.[/QUOTE]I survived the second wave as a child. Almost wiped out my family. Affected people of all ages, children and adults. Nasty stuff.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2446884]Well French food are pretty creamy and rich in butter and yeah maybe on top of that arrival of American food has helped to make people diabetics, but just death numbers are crazy, it is war level death rate.
There also is speculation, like in Japan, when we are born, it is mandatory to take BCG vaccines by force, so there is speculation that it has something to do with not making condition worst if you are infected with corona virus.
Bottom line is nobody knows, and we have avigan and one more medicine till vaccines arrives in about 1.5 years they say, and both medicines at least avigan is in mass production right now and also hopefully weather in summer may calm corona down a bit, so fingers cross and stay home.
Whatta strange era we get to experience.[/QUOTE]Real French foods didn't change, but more and more MacDo for child, not best for their health, even gift with foods.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2447010] Sweden's approach is worth study and reminiscent of 1968-70; what is interesting is that its death rate via covid 19 is less than most other European countries with severe lockdowns.[/QUOTE]Sweden's death rate is much higher than their Nordic neighbors, which given the population profiles makes for the best comparisons.
[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-intl/index.html[/URL]
I'm not sure why there is such an abundance of Covid-19 misinformation in monger forums. But I'm ready to move on and let the ignorance flourish. Is too much work correcting it all.
Cheers gentleman and stay safe.
Based on the Singaporean data mined study and models (as of 27/4) -- which is updated daily -- the 97%, 99% and 100% end dates of the Covid19 pandemic are:
Germany: 4 May 20; 16 May 20; 6 Aug 20.
Austria: 19-April 20; 29-April 20; 13 Jun 20.
Switzerland: 28 April 20; 9 May 20; 7 July 20.
So if we are optimistic and clubs will be allowed to open once 99% of the Covid19 is over then by mid May all FKKs could be open. If we are pessimistic then mid June FKKs in Austria will open first, then in July in Switzerland and in August Germany.
Link: [URL]https://ddi.sutd.edu.sg/when-will-covid-19-end[/URL].
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2447104]Real French foods didn't change, but more and more MacDo for child, not best for their health, even gift with foods.[/QUOTE]Well French chefs contributed greatly in area of fusion food, but in very good way, there are some contemporary touch to it in positive sense of word and the best one is french and Japanese cuisine combine, I have seen french or Japanese chefs combining both cuisine together like use of miso paste in french food etc.
As for fast food movement like Mac do, burger king, taco bel etc. That is everywhere unfortunately. I like eating good Kobe beef burger or wagyu burger in Japan or even in Europe I find in some places mostly in good hotels or I also like eating good hamburger in Germany actually, but authentic ones, not in Macdo or Burger king.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447020]Its not by repeating endlessly the same lies that it make them true.
Still waiting for the scientific links proving efficacy of Avigan, in which patients (young, old, mild, severe).[/QUOTE]Google yourself LOL there are plenty. 20 nations are going to use it for treatment including Germany, so I think German government approval is more relevant than your "professional" amateur opinion LOL!
Use google, I am tire of educating you. Google is good tool, do you know it? LOL!
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447021]Please define "war levels".
Vietnam war? 50000.
Holocaust? 6.000.000.
First WW: 10 Millions.
Japanese invasion of China? (200000 Chinese casualties just in Shanghai).[/QUOTE]Numerically, it is at war level, it is war! LOL.
[QUOTE=Clodius1;2447092]I survived the second wave as a child. Almost wiped out my family. Affected people of all ages, children and adults. Nasty stuff.[/QUOTE]When I woke up like 20 min ago and read this comment of yours, I thought you are the child who survive covid 19 virus and the child is writing on sex forum LOL But then I noticed it is different virus back in the day LOL!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2447091]I was really surprised when heard French doctors, because for me, smoking kill, but not many smokers died from virus, I think only around 15% of deaths, when they should have bad lungs. Maybe also old don't smoke much. I think also more men than women die.[/QUOTE]There are some report that smoking may prevent dementia too.
Personally I stay away from smoking beside smoking joint in Europe now and then, but even that I stopped, I had my part of fun. If they legalize THC food in Europe, then I will go and eat that for my enjoyment. I would love to go to THC restaurants some fine day. There are some, but not in the nations and area that I frequent.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447017]Not sure how this relates to my post.
But if you had been in Bergamo end of March you may have changed your mind.
Anyway, I have worked in Sweden many years, and know well the Swedish mentality, very friendly, I liked my time there, but terribly arrogant, they always know better. I was there when Olof Palme was assassinated. They always thought that this kind of things could never happen in their wonderful free society. And could only happen in the uncivilized parts of the world I. E south of Malmoe. Same about them teaching us, those guys living near the Mediterranean, how we should treat better our North Africans immigrants. Now look at the mess they are in with their own, Malmoe is a no-go area.[/QUOTE]I do not find Swedish people arrogant at all, I am sure you may find few that are, but I find Swedish people to be friendly and very fair people, often too fair or try to be so. Maybe your attitude toward them made them defensive that you find them arrogant.
But hey, Sweden is doing good, it is not war level there, it is not war in Sweden!
Where as certain part of Europe is basically at war level death rates with covid 19 and death rate keep on increasing, it is modern day Third world war!
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447021]Please define "war levels".
Vietnam war? 50000.
Holocaust? 6.000.000.
First WW: 10 Millions.
Japanese invasion of China? (200000 Chinese casualties just in Shanghai).[/QUOTE]58300 death in USA, it is more than Vietnam war and it is 58200 death in Vietnam war by the way, respect the victims and get your figures more or less correct and be correct with these thing, not wrong.
You are very wrong as usual. See, very wrong.
Same with mask, just do not listen till it is too late, but I am glad that people are wearing mask in west too finally. It helps.
I am not here to educate you, I am tired of teaching you thing, just get things right, it is not hard to research.
And it is war level death rates, it is not even simple math, it is to with reading numbers, so read numbers correctly and above is one example, just do research yourself and be correct with these thing, it is easy, do not be wrong.
It is war level death rate!
[QUOTE=RockyV;2447065]According to these projections the end of the epidemic in Germany is expected around 6th June, so on the 7th June we may be able to be hand-in-hand with our favourite girl again on our way to the room! LOL.
Rock.[/QUOTE]According to my original plan I was to leave Germany this month and return in July. Cannot say with certainty whether that will happen. Germany may open up their businesses including clubs by that time but not so sure about FKKs. Even if they open up FKKs will Germany allow non EU nationals into the country? If they allow non EU persons in with an initial two week quarantine I will be willing to accept that as now FKK girls are by far my favorite and others don't do it for me as much.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447121]Well French chefs contributed greatly in area of fusion food, but in very good way, there are some contemporary touch to it in positive sense of word and the best one is french and Japanese cuisine combine, I have seen french or Japanese chefs combining both cuisine together like use of miso paste in french food etc.
As for fast food movement like Mac do, burger king, taco bel etc. That is everywhere unfortunately. I like eating good Kobe beef burger or wagyu burger in Japan or even in Europe I find in some places mostly in good hotels or I also like eating good hamburger in Germany actually, but authentic ones, not in Macdo or Burger king.[/QUOTE]Like most often, you don't seem to understand meaning and for sure you don't know France. At least, I don't claim to know Japan. Before, French ate a lot of French bread, and French meat, and low obesity in France. But since MacDo, Cola, ketchup, more and more obesity which is a disease, making weak versus virus, and unfortunately for more and more children. These facts showed from virus, with many obese in hospitals. Many french are now competing with US.
[QUOTE=MrHo] Google is good tool, do you know it? LOL![/QUOTE]It can even teach you the basic grammar of English.
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2447119]Based on the Singaporean data mined study and models (as of 27/4) -- which is updated daily -- the 97%, 99% and 100% end dates of the Covid19 pandemic are:
Germany: 4 May 20; 16 May 20; 6 Aug 20.
Austria: 19-April 20; 29-April 20; 13 Jun 20.
Switzerland: 28 April 20; 9 May 20; 7 July 20.
So if we are optimistic and clubs will be allowed to open once 99% of the Covid19 is over then by mid May all FKKs could be open. If we are pessimistic then mid June FKKs in Austria will open first, then in July in Switzerland and in August Germany.
Link: [URL]https://ddi.sutd.edu.sg/when-will-covid-19-end[/URL].[/QUOTE]Western Europe, at least Germany and France are waiting for second wave when reopening. Only 6% were infected in France because of confined, but 1 new infected can infect 3 others. Risk is under control as long R0 <1 . Now free beds, but not sure will be enough if strong second wave, even always been free beds in whole France. When I don t think can use mask, gloves and 1,5 meter away to fuck girls, big spreading risk in brothels and bringing at home to relatives.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2447112]Sweden's death rate is much higher than their Nordic neighbors, which given the population profiles makes for the best comparisons.
[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-intl/index.html[/URL]
I'm not sure why there is such an abundance of Covid-19 misinformation in monger forums. But I'm ready to move on and let the ignorance flourish. Is too much work correcting it all.
Cheers gentleman and stay safe.[/QUOTE]And it's much lower than in other countries with lockdowns.
Why is it so hard to accept that lockdowns are not especially effective?
I don't understand why people are so set on ineffective methods which brings more harm than good. The goal have to be to live life as normal as possible with people being able to make a living.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447017]Not sure how this relates to my post.
But if you had been in Bergamo end of March you may have changed your mind.
Anyway, I have worked in Sweden many years, and know well the Swedish mentality, very friendly, I liked my time there, but terribly arrogant, they always know better. I was there when Olof Palme was assassinated. They always thought that this kind of things could never happen in their wonderful free society. And could only happen in the uncivilized parts of the world I. E south of Malmoe. Same about them teaching us, those guys living near the Mediterranean, how we should treat better our North Africans immigrants. Now look at the mess they are in with their own, Malmoe is a no-go area.[/QUOTE]No offense, but you came to Sweden because you were tired of making peanuts in your native shithole country and now you what to talk about arrogance? If you want to see real arrogance just look yourself in the mirror.
You have to understand that to us North Europeans there's no difference between you and the North Africans. You are both a burden to us. When will the economist down there learn about setting a balanced budget? You are on the verge of becoming a protectorate of the European Union.
I've always been against the migration to Sweden just as I'm against transferring money to the greedy parasites of Southern Europe. I'm sick of you always begging us for money.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2447039]I seriously doubt that to be true.
I had someone tell me the other day that a 20 year old girl died from coronavirus, so the coronavirus is dangerous for young people as well. I asked "did she have any health problems prior to that"? They replied no, no health problems, she was completely healthy.
Later I found out the girl had bad asthma all her life.
My guess is this smoker "study" is also not giving all the details.[/QUOTE]What you described is sadly true as well, but has nothing to do with nicotine. In any case, all serious scientists do NOT recommend smoking to prevent COVID infection. Since even if it MAY prevent it in a small number of people, it will still kill far many more.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2447065]According to these projections the end of the epidemic in Germany is expected around 6th June, so on the 7th June we may be able to be hand-in-hand with our favourite girl again on our way to the room! LOL.
Rock.[/QUOTE]Well, that is what I call ptimist! Wish you were right. But hypocritical politicians will surely put brothels at the bottom of their list.
[QUOTE=Clodius1;2447090]I think in USA, Trump has clamped down on the sale of nicotine patches. Maybe just with OTC sales, not sure.[/QUOTE]Same in France. Only on prescription for those on a course to stop smoking.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2447091]I was really surprised when heard French doctors, because for me, smoking kill, but not many smokers died from virus, I think only around 15% of deaths, when they should have bad lungs. Maybe also old don't smoke much. I think also more men than women die.[/QUOTE]There is a scientific plausible explanation, I. E the virus and nicotine fight for a spot to land on the lungs. Hence less risks to catch it. But again, it's not foolproof, and, more importantly, once a smoker get sin ICU, his risks of death are higher than non smokers. You are right, smoking kills!
[QUOTE=Clodius1;2447092]I survived the second wave as a child. Almost wiped out my family. Affected people of all ages, children and adults. Nasty stuff.[/QUOTE]War level death rate staff! War!
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2447112]Sweden's death rate is much higher than their Nordic neighbors, which given the population profiles makes for the best comparisons.
[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-intl/index.html[/URL]
I'm not sure why there is such an abundance of Covid-19 misinformation in monger forums. But I'm ready to move on and let the ignorance flourish. Is too much work correcting it all.
Cheers gentleman and stay safe.[/QUOTE]I agree, and also thought of leaving. But I have, unfortunately, more free time than usual, and I find it interesting to see what fake news make it here, and how some people react to them. A snapshot of society, or at least of a subgroup of men who love women and sex.
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2447119]Based on the Singaporean data mined study and models (as of 27/4) -- which is updated daily -- the 97%, 99% and 100% end dates of the Covid19 pandemic are:
Germany: 4 May 20; 16 May 20; 6 Aug 20.
Austria: 19-April 20; 29-April 20; 13 Jun 20.
Switzerland: 28 April 20; 9 May 20; 7 July 20.
So if we are optimistic and clubs will be allowed to open once 99% of the Covid19 is over then by mid May all FKKs could be open. If we are pessimistic then mid June FKKs in Austria will open first, then in July in Switzerland and in August Germany.
Link: [URL]https://ddi.sutd.edu.sg/when-will-covid-19-end[/URL].[/QUOTE]What is "End date"? I don't think it means no virus whatsoever anywhere.
No chance of anything like an FKK opening before September, IMYO.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447122]Google yourself LOL there are plenty. 20 nations are going to use it for treatment including Germany, so I think German government approval is more relevant than your "professional" amateur opinion LOL!
Use google, I am tire of educating you. Google is good tool, do you know it? LOL![/QUOTE]Google is the best source of fake news. I get mine form scientific papers, to each his own.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447123]Numerically, it is at war level, it is war! LOL.[/QUOTE]Very clear indeed? No need to trivialize this. In such case everything is at war level: Traffic accidents, deaths due to smoking etc.
Anyway, dear Mr Ho, I am done with you, and I have shut you out! Be safe anyway!
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447033]Blessed those who know.
It will be your human right to refuse the vaccine. But it will other's right to stop you travelling if you are not vaccinated. I, for sure would refuse to deal with people like you, and I believe I will be part of a huge majority. And last, of course, as an ICU doctor, I would refuse to treat you, should you come to my unit with respiratory distress.[/QUOTE]If you're a licensed physician on duty and you refused to treat that patient, you't probably lose your license.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447134]58300 death in USA, it is more than Vietnam war and it is 58200 death in Vietnam war by the way, respect the victims and get your figures more or less correct and be correct with these thing, not wrong.
You are very wrong as usual. See, very wrong.
Same with mask, just do not listen till it is too late, but I am glad that people are wearing mask in west too finally. It helps.
I am not here to educate you, I am tired of teaching you thing, just get things right, it is not hard to research.
And it is war level death rates, it is not even simple math, it is to with reading numbers, so read numbers correctly and above is one example, just do research yourself and be correct with these thing, it is easy, do not be wrong.
It is war level death rate![/QUOTE]With more than 10 millions illegals, so many without insurance, so many unemployed, I m pretty sure the most powerful country with high medical level, one of the best in the world, except in poor zones when low level hospitals because no money around, should probably reach 100 000 for real figures, when Belgium have the highest deaths rate at the moment. When doctors have to learn a lot about this virus, when countries should learn from virus, I thought I knew green motorbike, but after Chinese killer virus, now Japanese Kawasaki syndrome which is big danger for our children, in UK, Italy and France.
This guy Dreams take this sex forum too seriously LOL. It is sex forum LOL.
Dream on Dreams LOL.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2447180]It can even teach you the basic grammar of English.[/QUOTE]Right, but hey, do you even speak other languages? What is your job? Blue collar level office worker? LOL.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447033]Blessed those who know.
It will be your human right to refuse the vaccine. But it will other's right to stop you travelling if you are not vaccinated. I, for sure would refuse to deal with people like you, and I believe I will be part of a huge majority. And last, of course, as an ICU doctor, I would refuse to treat you, should you come to my unit with respiratory distress.[/QUOTE]ICU doctor? LOL LOL! Scary how ICU doctor refuse to treat you ! LOL LOL.
Is that even legal? LOL LOL!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2447343]With more than 10 millions illegals, so many without insurance, so many unemployed, I m pretty sure the most powerful country with high medical level, one of the best in the world, except in poor zones when low level hospitals because no money around, should probably reach 100 000 for real figures, when Belgium have the highest deaths rate at the moment. When doctors have to learn a lot about this virus, when countries should learn from virus, I thought I knew green motorbike, but after Chinese killer virus, now Japanese Kawasaki syndrome which is big danger for our children, in UK, Italy and France.[/QUOTE]Japanese Kawasaki syndrome? That is in 80's LOL. What era are you on about and you are just showing your own ignorant and low education taking Asia as a country, it is continent.
Japan by far is more clean than France with better technology, stronger economy, with more manner and hygiene level, this is plain fact, wake up, it is 21st century LOL!
As for America, death rates became more than Vietnam war and it is war level and they have every right to be pissed off at Chinese government, and as for Europe, medical system was not top level in France, Italy and Spain as they like to claim to be, I mean look at this death rates, it is crazy.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447378]Right, but hey, do you even speak other languages? What is your job? Blue collar level office worker? LOL.[/QUOTE]A job where I don't write LOL in every sentence like a 13 year old and that I got not because of the big wallet of mommy and daddy.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447232]There is a scientific plausible explanation, I. E the virus and nicotine fight for a spot to land on the lungs. Hence less risks to catch it. But again, it's not foolproof, and, more importantly, once a smoker get sin ICU, his risks of death are higher than non smokers. You are right, smoking kills![/QUOTE]So smokers don't develop virus? When some others make bad infection reactions when they were not known previously sick, fortunately only few. But smokers have bad lungs and many will die, more than 70000 in France per year, more numerous than from virus. Yesterday finished to kill my mood with now dangerous syndrome from Japan for our children. Really difficult time when I can't care much about brothels and prostitutes.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447237]War level death rate staff! War![/QUOTE]Statistics are a subject matter I have been interested in for over 30 years and I can see from reading this forum how a lot of people are grossly distorting them or misinterpreting them to suit their own preconceptions or arguments. That is in fact what most people do, whether deliberately or by not understanding the nuances involved.
Look, I think a lot of the time people are not being serious but like to engage people in discussions, but in case you are I will address this issue.
Lets look at Vietnam, the 58 000 figure you quote are just US war dead (including not military related deaths) and not the entire toll of the war. The wars actual toll including Vietnamese military and civilian deaths, I am skipping Laos and Cambodia was in excess of 2 million.
Some wars do have low overall casualties, but these are limited conflicts and not fully fledged horrific wars, like the worst we have experienced. I really do not if this was a poor attempt at humor, but the current pandemic is far short of the staggering death tolls of the worst conflicts we have had.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2447324]If you're a licensed physician on duty and you refused to treat that patient, you't probably lose your license.[/QUOTE]Yes of course, I know and This will obviously never happen. But this was to illustrate that human rights are not black and white: The freedom of one is not superior of the freedom of many more.
Some governments have prohibited children not vaccinated against measles to attend schools (In the UK, measles, who was 100% eradicated is now making a wild comeback.)
Even an antivaccine celebrity, Novak Djokovic, has acknowledged that if he refuses the vaccine against C-19 (if and when we get one, of course) he will not be allowed to travel, let alone compete.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447505]Yes of course, I know and This will obviously never happen. But this was to illustrate that human rights are not black and white: The freedom of one is not superior of the freedom of many more.
Some governments have prohibited children not vaccinated against measles to attend schools (In the UK, measles, who was 100% eradicated is now making a wild comeback.)
Even an antivaccine celebrity, Novak Djokovic, has acknowledged that if he refuses the vaccine against C-19 (if and when we get one, of course) he will not be allowed to travel, let alone compete.[/QUOTE]You have clever writings, but I don't agree with you about same human rights for everyone, unfortunately, in real life, poor don't have same human rights than rich, and I don't think China, north Korea, Russia and even Us have same human rights than in France.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447410]Japanese Kawasaki syndrome? That is in 80's LOL. What era are you on about and you are just showing your own ignorant and low education taking Asia as a country, it is continent.
Japan by far is more clean than France with better technology, stronger economy, with more manner and hygiene level, this is plain fact, wake up, it is 21st century LOL!
As for America, death rates became more than Vietnam war and it is war level and they have every right to be pissed off at Chinese government, and as for Europe, medical system was not top level in France, Italy and Spain as they like to claim to be, I mean look at this death rates, it is crazy.[/QUOTE]Real facts everyone can check are in UK, Italy and France, some of our children are now in danger, at the moment, from Japanese Kawasaki syndrome, this after Chinese virus which kill our old or sick people.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2447505]Yes of course, I know and This will obviously never happen. But this was to illustrate that human rights are not black and white: The freedom of one is not superior of the freedom of many more.
Some governments have prohibited children not vaccinated against measles to attend schools (In the UK, measles, who was 100% eradicated is now making a wild comeback.)
Even an antivaccine celebrity, Novak Djokovic, has acknowledged that if he refuses the vaccine against C-19 (if and when we get one, of course) he will not be allowed to travel, let alone compete.[/QUOTE]Your joke make me laugh LOL! You got good sense of humor doctor LOL!
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2447442]A job where I don't write LOL in every sentence like a 13 year old and that I got not because of the big wallet of mommy and daddy.[/QUOTE]I am more richer than you, this is all it matter and hey be more cultural and learn another language if you can. Thanks for your jealousy, it is nicer being safe and educated LOL!
And hey, lose some weight big belly LOL!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447659]I am more richer than you, this is all it matter and hey be more cultural and learn another language if you can. Thanks for your jealousy, it is nicer being safe and educated LOL!
And hey, lose some weight big belly LOL![/QUOTE]Born poor speak like this, same like Romanian WGs: only money matter. When I started to work, I wanted to become the best and to make a lot of money, I worked more than 70 hours per week, my girlfriends told me I was always at work or with my RS500 Cosworth and they were jealous. Getting older, I lost all my relatives I loved, 10 years ago I died with my girlfriend, she made me promise to find a new woman, to make her become as happy as I made her, when she had a difficult as woman, previous married life, she just wanted I would be happy after her, but I was not able. Now I know I m the best performer in my job, I m not working safe close to heater behind a computer, I'm the best because I take risks and they pay me for this, to have balls to keep on working under virus and I go before my teams even they are mostly foreigners when risk, if I wanted, I could make nearly double money, but I don't care, they will give me bonus for risk, but You don t need money when you are dead, when you dream about FKK, this is kind of failure for me, even I have usually the prettiest in any club and I enjoy playing with some, but I was not able for my promise. What I like is feeling a little bit of my previous life, or when I don't see what is below in La Grave above lake Chancel, narrow sharp icy combes, or skiing between rocks in Verbier or between crevaces on Zermatt Klein Matterhorn or la Grave Girose glacier, or when raining a lot, when You arrive behind a big truck putting big water everywhere, then accelerating to pass it, feeling like in car wash, not seeing anything, sometimes hearing shock noise from big speed difference, all this adrenaline which make You feel a bit alive, is so much more interesting than money for me. I m not a poor Romanian WG, I was lucky not to be born poor, but I think my mother who was the best, would cry a lot if she saw my way of life, but at least I always take care of where she is and not only her. 1 November is a long difficult day for me, since so many years. When I climb, I m only motivated to improve my time, but when I climb to higher than 2500 meters high, I feel closer to the sky, I love so much when I climb Gran San Bernardino from Aosta, of course I like to see Scott ski, my ski, factory, but when higher, very beautiful, long but not too climby and I love clouds in the sky looking like angels, I feel like at home. On last years, I skipped because I didn't have enough time and not the most difficult, more difficult on Swiss side, but I want to climb on this Summer to see angels. This is my biggest wealth for deep inside of me. Money is nothing compare to this.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447410]Japanese Kawasaki syndrome? That is in 80's LOL. What era are you on about and you are just showing your own ignorant and low education taking Asia as a country, it is continent.
Japan by far is more clean than France with better technology, stronger economy, with more manner and hygiene level, this is plain fact, wake up, it is 21st century LOL!
As for America, death rates became more than Vietnam war and it is war level and they have every right to be pissed off at Chinese government, and as for Europe, medical system was not top level in France, Italy and Spain as they like to claim to be, I mean look at this death rates, it is crazy.[/QUOTE]Yes, unfortunately Japanese Kawasaki syndrome is right now in Western Europe, and danger for our children, like Cvirus for our old and sick. Yes, when I was at school, I learned Japan is a small island, close to big China and we had a song from 70's in France about only 600 millions Chinese and now more than double. We all learned about Nagasaki and Hiroshima which was a dirty shameful war, what can become a real war, same like napalm on Vietnam. From what I know about French medical level, even too many deaths, but we have explanations for reasons, for example, like in US, our poorest district where people don't respect confined because they need to work and many social problems, is worst rate, like in US, poverty kill, but if I need again, I will not go elsewhere. I drove from Palace to french border, putting infection everywhere in my blood, to be operated in France, I left hospital on next day to go to work, had to sign a paper to hospital of course, but I could, same for hernie and being put something in my belly, I was with Daria at LR on next day, of course when security came at 4 am to ask to leave, I was stuck in couch with blood going out of scar and couldn't stand up, but my best FKK nurse helped me when I made her even more white skin and turned crazy on that night. Before going to room, I told her I preferred to show her my bloody belly and then she could decide, she became more white than her milky natural skin color, she took key and read 21, so we walked upstairs, not easy for scar, but she mistook reading, when we entered in room 21, a guy was fucking a girl, Daria laughed so much, it was room 12, so 2 stairs to go down to downstairs level, but in room she stopped laughing seeing blood, it was my period, but great time for 2 hours. At the end she asked: You return home now, I answered: I won't be able, I can't move, I can't breathe. So she said: stay with me, rest until closing, she stayed with me. That was her kindness, sweetness, tenderness, she needs love. LR superstar thought she was far above all other girls, even Luana, Amira, Linda, but she knew not above Daria when she saw me looking at her.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447659]I am more richer than you, this is all it matter and hey be more cultural and learn another language if you can. Thanks for your jealousy, it is nicer being safe and educated LOL!
And hey, lose some weight big belly LOL![/QUOTE]1 - that's 'richer' or 'more rich', not 'more richer' (I learnt it when I was 13 yo in a public school).
2 - 'all that matters'.
3 - Rich doesn't mean educated, it just means that mommy and daddy bought your diplomas. To get a glimpse of your education level, one just has to read your numerous posts on this board.
Has anyone with a normal-functioning brain some real intel on the possible reopenings of clubs in Germany?
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447659]I am more richer than you, this is all it matter and hey be more cultural and learn another language if you can. Thanks for your jealousy, it is nicer being safe and educated LOL!
And hey, lose some weight big belly LOL![/QUOTE]Big Buddy, welcome to the AC, Anglophone Club. Actually, I just because I failed the exam. I don't qualify.
Mr Ho, Vietnam was technically a Police Action, not a war. The official number you quote is the one reflecting the active US military members lost in Vietnam. Even if the foreign fighters and civilians are not counted, the number is higher when US government civilians and other US civilians are counted. Even then, the numbers are small compared to the numbers of Korean, Chinese, Filipinos, Americans, Japanese. That were lost in what I consider a single Pacific conflict that lasted from the early 1900's through the mid 1940's. People often forget that there were intercontinental Asian conflicts happening long before Pearl Harbor and continued long after delivery of the Little Boy and the Fat Man. It's obvious that some level of Nationalistic pride still exists. I prefer to let that superiority be determined in a friendly sporting competition such as upcoming Summer Olympics. I hope the Japanese medical pioneers are truly able to find an effective vaccination or treatment COVID-19 by then.
As I said earlier, with exception of the capacity of the ISS, human kind are bound to Earth. Travel advances, international businesses, holiday, etc. Create an environment where a country could be virus free, but suffer a recurrence delivered from a friendly or unfriendly entity outside it's borders.
News about the lockdown: [URL]https://www.wz.de/nrw/corona-drei-stufen-plan-zur-oeffnung-von-gastronomie-und-hotels-in-nrw_aid-50302691?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook[/URL]#Echobox=1588159981.
The plan is for a slow loosening of the lockdown in the next few weeks with hotels allowed to fully open around May 25.
Any plans to drive from England to hit the FKK's is still very premature but this is progress.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2443235]Another theory, as put forth by the Washington Post: [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/04/14/state-department-cables-warned-safety-issues-wuhan-lab-studying-bat-coronaviruses/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Remember this? It was about how there just happened to be a big Coronavirus Lab in the Chinese city where the Coronavirus originated. Purely coincidental I'm sure.
[NOPARSE] Two weeks later, something else is finally revealed to the public. The Coronovirus Lab in China was funded by... nice guy Dr Fauci![/NOPARSE]
[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741[/URL]
The Coronavirus research was considered too dangerous to be conducted in the US. Even the possibility of a leak in China was thought too risky and the Obama administration cut off funding. Then the funding was restored by the Trump administration. Amazing how the news media managed to black all this out for so long.
If we were in a novel, this would be the big plot twist in chapter twenty-three.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2447854]Remember this? It was about how there just happened to be a big Coronavirus Lab in the Chinese city where the Coronavirus originated. Purely coincidental I'm sure.
[NOPARSE] Two weeks later, something else is finally revealed to the public. The Coronovirus Lab in China was funded by... nice guy Dr Fauci![/NOPARSE]
[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/dr-fauci-backed-controversial-wuhan-lab-millions-us-dollars-risky-coronavirus-research-1500741[/URL]
The Coronavirus research was considered too dangerous to be conducted in the US. Even the possibility of a leak in China was thought too risky and the Obama administration cut off funding. Then the funding was restored by the Trump administration. Amazing how the news media managed to black all this out for so long.
If we were in a novel, this would be the big plot twist in chapter twenty-three.[/QUOTE]All I know is it's time to eat! It's dinner time everybody! Yum, yum! Hahahahaha! Call me many things, but don't call me late for dinner LOL!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2447742][noparse]...[/noparse] Getting older, I lost all my relatives I loved, 10 years ago I died with my girlfriend, she made me promise to find a new woman, to make her become as happy as I made her, when she had a difficult as woman, previous married life, she just wanted I would be happy after her, but I was not able. [noparse]...[/noparse] when you dream about FKK, this is kind of failure for me, even I have usually the prettiest in any club and I enjoy playing with some, but I was not able for my promise. What I like is feeling a little bit of my previous life, or when I don't see what is below in La Grave above lake Chance[noparse]...[/noparse] I m not a poor Romanian WG, I was lucky not to be born poor, but I think my mother who was the best, would cry a lot if she saw my way of life, but at least I always take care of where she is and not only her. 1 November is a long difficult day for me, since so many years[noparse]....[/noparse][/QUOTE]Siri, thank you for sharing these personal stories. I am sorry to hear about these sad experiences, and I hope you find the happiness of your previous life; not just a shadow of it in FKK. Wish you the best.
[QUOTE=CuriousExplore;2447884]Siri, thank you for sharing these personal stories. I am sorry to hear about these sad experiences, and I hope you find the happiness of your previous life; not just a shadow of it in FKK. Wish you the best.[/QUOTE]No risk in FKK land. Just have to pay to play, each one own game. Good point is I don t miss so much since 14 March, I have more important things to think about at the moment. I miss much more my real sports. I found and chose one, because different look so easier to manage, to live again what I didn't have enough time for, when blond full GFE Claudia killed my mind with her intense blue eyes, too complicated with her, even lovely real passionate.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2447766]1 - that's 'richer' or 'more rich', not 'more richer' (I learnt it when I was 13 yo in a public school).
2 - 'all that matters'.
3 - Rich doesn't mean educated, it just means that mommy and daddy bought your diplomas. To get a glimpse of your education level, one just has to read your numerous posts on this board.
Has anyone with a normal-functioning brain some real intel on the possible reopenings of clubs in Germany?[/QUOTE]Someone who does not even speak second language is lecturing me LOL. Wow, thanks big belly LOL!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2447742]Born poor speak like this, same like Romanian WGs: only money matter. When I started to work, I wanted to become the best and to make a lot of money, I worked more than 70 hours per week, my girlfriends told me I was always at work or with my RS500 Cosworth and they were jealous. Getting older, I lost all my relatives I loved, 10 years ago I died with my girlfriend, she made me promise to find a new woman, to make her become as happy as I made her, when she had a difficult as woman, previous married life, she just wanted I would be happy after her, but I was not able. Now I know I m the best performer in my job, I m not working safe close to heater behind a computer, I'm the best because I take risks and they pay me for this, to have balls to keep on working under virus and I go before my teams even they are mostly foreigners when risk, if I wanted, I could make nearly double money, but I don't care, they will give me bonus for risk, but You don t need money when you are dead, when you dream about FKK, this is kind of failure for me, even I have usually the prettiest in any club and I enjoy playing with some, but I was not able for my promise. What I like is feeling a little bit of my previous life, or when I don't see what is below in La Grave above lake Chancel, narrow sharp icy combes, or skiing between rocks in Verbier or between crevaces on Zermatt Klein Matterhorn or la Grave Girose glacier, or when raining a lot, when You arrive behind a big truck putting big water everywhere, then accelerating to pass it, feeling like in car wash, not seeing anything, sometimes hearing shock noise from big speed difference, all this adrenaline which make You feel a bit alive, is so much more interesting than money for me. I m not a poor Romanian WG, I was lucky not to be born poor, but I think my mother who was the best, would cry a lot if she saw my way of life, but at least I always take care of where she is and not only her. 1 November is a long difficult day for me, since so many years. When I climb, I m only motivated to improve my time, but when I climb to higher than 2500 meters high, I feel closer to the sky, I love so much when I climb Gran San Bernardino from Aosta, of course I like to see Scott ski, my ski, factory, but when higher, very beautiful, long but not too climby and I love clouds in the sky looking like angels, I feel like at home. On last years, I skipped because I didn't have enough time and not the most difficult, more difficult on Swiss side, but I want to climb on this Summer to see angels. This is my biggest wealth for deep inside of me. Money is nothing compare to this.[/QUOTE]Well I did not born poor, and if you ask me, I respect people who is self made much more by the way because simply, it is much harder that way.
And hey, you got too much media and society norm based image and illusions on life in general. I know many rich people and I tell you the face, most of them are biggest ego centered scam bag in the world, who does not even admit that they are. Personally, I admit most of my fault if any, and I talk trash if I have to, I always have, I always will, I just stopped fighting myself as I was never arrested and I rather not have problem with police for rest of my life.
But like with FKK prostitutes, you should check yourself because you have too much hallucination, you ex girlfriend broke your heart as you said and you seek the treatment basically in FKK which is brothel, I think it is not healthy way to go, it is mental problem, FKK is brothel and it is where you go to have sex, not treatment, well if you want FKK as clinic FKK, then suit your self LOL! But it is not healthy for your head and mind. And so much more mental work for prostitutes, poor prostitutes who has to deal with this treatments of yours LOL!
FKK is brothel and it is not hospital, it is not proper place to go to seek for your misery of failed ex girlfriend of yours as you said.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447903]Well I did not born poor, and if you ask me, I respect people who is self made much more by the way because simply, it is much harder that way.
And hey, you got too much media and society norm based image and illusions on life in general. I know many rich people and I tell you the face, most of them are biggest ego centered scam bag in the world, who does not even admit that they are. Personally, I admit most of my fault if any, and I talk trash if I have to, I always have, I always will, I just stopped fighting myself as I was never arrested and I rather not have problem with police for rest of my life.
But like with FKK prostitutes, you should check yourself because you have too much hallucination, you ex girlfriend broke your heart as you said and you seek the treatment basically in FKK which is brothel, I think it is not healthy way to go, it is mental problem, FKK is brothel and it is where you go to have sex, not treatment, well if you want FKK as clinic FKK, then suit your self LOL! But it is not healthy for your head and mind. And so much more mental work for prostitutes, poor prostitutes who has to deal with this treatments of yours LOL!
FKK is brothel and it is not hospital, it is not proper place to go to seek for your misery of failed ex girlfriend of yours as you said.[/QUOTE]OK, my English may not be the best, even I train hard, writing here, but I don't know what is your second language because most often you don't get the meaning and again on this time. I'm sure for 110% she wanted I would be happy with another, after her. I think she and my mother would be so disappointed to see my new way of life, not about job or ski or climbing, they knew, I don't think so much about a prostitute beauty because they knew I love beauty, but about brothels and I remember my LR girl telling me: this is not a place for you. So I told: OK, so I won't come back, so she said: why? You don't want to see me again? I will miss you. Land of cleverness. At least, like ski or mountains, FKK relax my mind, but when I never had a 6 weeks break since I started with escorts on end of 2010, I'm surprised, I didn't think would be no real missing, I miss much more my real sports and my freedom even getting allowance to move for my job, but not really freedom, I can't go where I want, but if confined saved more than 60000 French, then it s OK for me and at the moment I'm even happy to pay tax because my most important worry at the moment is what will be french economy. I don t worry about french medical level even too many deaths, I won't criticize Macron about virus, because except a German specialist for virus, nobody know much about this virus, and now we have another Asian disease for our children, but I worry a lot Macron didn't learn arithmetic at school. With exploding unemployment, who will pay our bill? When France is number 1 in the World for tourism, a small country above US, China, because of French culture, no tourism, we don't even know if we will go on holidays, and at best, only Western Europeans may come. EU borders should remain closed for a while when US and Asians are big tourism in France. So, brothels are not so important.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447900]Someone who does not even speak second language is lecturing me LOL. Wow, thanks big belly LOL![/QUOTE]I'm french so English is my second language, maybe you didn't get it, too much weed and Viagra in your blood I think.
No you despise poor people because you are a narrow minded rich spoilt brat. Some kind of Japanese Donald Trump. And actually we say 'I wasn't born poor'. You should try to open books (dictionaries for instance) from time to time. Funny how the serial posters here all suffer from heavy psychological disorders.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2447589]You have clever writings, but I don't agree with you about same human rights for everyone, unfortunately, in real life, poor don't have same human rights than rich, and I don't think China, north Korea, Russia and even Us have same human rights than in France.[/QUOTE]I fully agree. I was not comparing countries, just talking about people in the same country / political system. However, you are right: poor people have always been at the bottom since the dawn of times. And that so in all political systems, communist (poor were having terrible times in the Soviet Union, and still have in Venezuela and Cuba, for instance), but also in our capitalist system, even if I agree that I would rather be living in western Europe or Japan than the Us if I was in the " poor" category.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2447742]Born poor speak like this, same like Romanian WGs: only money matter. When I started to work, I wanted to become the best and to make a lot of money, I worked more than 70 hours per week, my girlfriends told me I was always at work or with my RS500 Cosworth and they were jealous. Getting older, I lost all my relatives I loved, 10 years ago I died with my girlfriend, she made me promise to find a new woman, to make her become as happy as I made her, when she had a difficult as woman, previous married life, she just wanted I would be happy after her, but I was not able. Now I know I m the best performer in my job, I m not working safe close to heater behind a computer, I'm the best because I take risks and they pay me for this, to have balls to keep on working under virus and I go before my teams even they are mostly foreigners when risk, if I wanted, I could make nearly double money, but I don't care, they will give me bonus for risk, but You don t need money when you are dead, when you dream about FKK, this is kind of failure for me, even I have usually the prettiest in any club and I enjoy playing with some, but I was not able for my promise. What I like is feeling a little bit of my previous life, or when I don't see what is below in La Grave above lake Chancel, narrow sharp icy combes, or skiing between rocks in Verbier or between crevaces on Zermatt Klein Matterhorn or la Grave Girose glacier, or when raining a lot, when You arrive behind a big truck putting big water everywhere, then accelerating to pass it, feeling like in car wash, not seeing anything, sometimes hearing shock noise from big speed difference, all this adrenaline which make You feel a bit alive, is so much more interesting than money for me. I m not a poor Romanian WG, I was lucky not to be born poor, but I think my mother who was the best, would cry a lot if she saw my way of life, but at least I always take care of where she is and not only her. 1 November is a long difficult day for me, since so many years.[/QUOTE]Very moving post. Looks like you wrote it while in an emotional state. Make me feel like I'll like to meet you once.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2447900]Someone who does not even speak second language is lecturing me LOL. Wow, thanks big belly LOL![/QUOTE]Perhaps someone who speaks a second language to a level beyond the knowledge of people who speak it as their mother tongue. Your nationalistic pride is respectable but your presentation can be a bit offensive. Just saying. LOL LOL this is a sex forum. I appreciate some good banter but within reason. Perhaps a bit of self respect could be displayed. LOL LOL.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2448029]Perhaps someone who speaks a second language to a level beyond the knowledge of people who speak it as their mother tongue. Your nationalistic pride is respectable but your presentation can be a bit offensive. Just saying. LOL LOL this is a sex forum. I appreciate some good banter but within reason. Perhaps a bit of self respect could be displayed. LOL LOL.[/QUOTE]Isn't Bigbuddy French? Or did I make a wrong guess?
I speak just one language. Not much more can be expected from me, LOL.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2447976]OK, my English may not be the best, even I train hard, writing here, but I don't know what is your second language because most often you don't get the meaning and again on this time. I'm sure for 110% she wanted I would be happy with another, after her. I think she and my mother would be so disappointed to see my new way of life, not about job or ski or climbing, they knew, I don't think so much about a prostitute beauty because they knew I love beauty, but about brothels and I remember my LR girl telling me: this is not a place for you. So I told: OK, so I won't come back, so she said: why? You don't want to see me again? I will miss you. Land of cleverness. At least, like ski or mountains, FKK relax my mind, but when I never had a 6 weeks break since I started with escorts on end of 2010, I'm surprised, I didn't think would be no real missing, I miss much more my real sports and my freedom even getting allowance to move for my job, but not really freedom, I can't go where I want, but if confined saved more than 60000 French, then it s OK for me and at the moment I'm even happy to pay tax because my most important worry at the moment is what will be french economy. I don t worry about french medical level even too many deaths, I won't criticize Macron about virus, because except a German specialist for virus, nobody know much about this virus, and now we have another Asian disease for our children, but I worry a lot Macron didn't learn arithmetic at school. With exploding unemployment, who will pay our bill? When France is number 1 in the World for tourism, a small country above US, China, because of French culture, no tourism, we don't even know if we will go on holidays, and at best, only Western Europeans may come. EU borders should remain closed for a while when US and Asians are big tourism in France. So, brothels are not so important.[/QUOTE]I never mentioned about your English ability and hey, I just woke up and writing this, this is sex forum as I said, I don't and I am sure you don't check your writing as well, I think some people should relax here LOL.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2447985]I'm french so English is my second language, maybe you didn't get it, too much weed and Viagra in your blood I think.
No you despise poor people because you are a narrow minded rich spoilt brat. Some kind of Japanese Donald Trump. And actually we say 'I wasn't born poor'. You should try to open books (dictionaries for instance) from time to time. Funny how the serial posters here all suffer from heavy psychological disorders.[/QUOTE]It is not disorder, it is internet forum, so we can be open and at the same time be anonymous. You are the one who mentioned about it, not me. As for spoil brat, well I must agree with that to some extent and I do realize how lucky I am, and as for Donald trump thing, well. I kind of put it on. I do like Japan though, it is not because I am Japanese, but it is respectable nation and it is only non white G7 or even already was G5 nation.
As for weed, I quit by the way, it is not that I wanted to, but it is illegal here, so I never done it here and as for FKK, I realized it is better without. And hey, it ain't Viagra, it is Cialis I am taking in FKK, so I still can do more than 5 rooms LOL! If not I end with 3 rooms now LOL.
It is not disorder to reply properly, I write these posts quick and I don't even check the context, spelling or grammar, but I do reply to people who write and be open with some anonymity about me and also girls who still works in FKK because I know I must protect them to some extent like I know some of their private information or things they do for me in room that they may not want to do to others, so I keep it quiet till they quit FKK industry.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2448029]Perhaps someone who speaks a second language to a level beyond the knowledge of people who speak it as their mother tongue. Your nationalistic pride is respectable but your presentation can be a bit offensive. Just saying. LOL LOL this is a sex forum. I appreciate some good banter but within reason. Perhaps a bit of self respect could be displayed. LOL LOL.[/QUOTE]We were just arguing as usual, so any punch would be thrown LOL. I am not sure if national pride is good thing as you see how it has divided the world even though I do see Donald trump as like homeopathy into politic, like you know throw poison into congress to destroy poison to change things. Whether it is good change or not, I don't know LOL, but he is still there.
I appreciate your manner within your mild complaint LOL. I kind of put it on, so I may lower it time to time.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2448015]Very moving post. Looks like you wrote it while in an emotional state. Make me feel like I'll like to meet you once.[/QUOTE]I have to admit Sir Ioja does the whole manchild thing better than anyone I know. I can see how a lot of girls would be attracted to that heart-on-sleeve approach. On the other hand, it does seem kinda wasted on the Romanians, as 90% of them haven't a molecule of romance in their barbie bodies and will just be thinking about how to screw every penny out of every sentiment you can offer them.
By the way Dreams, still waiting for you in the Lounge to compare soaplands to FKKs. For example, would you say on average that Japanese girls have sweeter personalities than Romanian girls?
Also, how are employment opportunities for a gaijin? I was pondering the possibility of going over to Japan and trying to get a job as a Sauna Boy, but I'm afraid they might ask me to take off my turban. And if you're a Sauna Boy can you get fired for sexual harrassment? Not that I was planning on doing that myself of course. Asking for a friend.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2448176]I can see how a lot of girls would be attracted to that heart-on-sleeve approach. On the other hand, it does seem kinda wasted on the Romanians, as 90% of them haven't a molecule of romance in their barbie bodies and will just be thinking about how to screw every penny out of every sentiment you can offer them.[/QUOTE]I'm sure lots of sex workers are repulsed by men acting like love-sick puppies who may become creepy stalkers. They prefer customers who behave like grown-ups and are aware that they are paying for a sexual relationship, nothing else, nothing more. It has nothing to do with Romanians, they are not looking for romance. Neither are the Germans or every other nationalities.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2448176]I have to admit Sir Ioja does the whole manchild thing better than anyone I know. I can see how a lot of girls would be attracted to that heart-on-sleeve approach. On the other hand, it does seem kinda wasted on the Romanians, as 90% of them haven't a molecule of romance in their barbie bodies and will just be thinking about how to screw every penny out of every sentiment you can offer them.
By the way Dreams, still waiting for you in the Lounge to compare soaplands to FKKs. For example, would you say on average that Japanese girls have sweeter personalities than Romanian girls?
Also, how are employment opportunities for a gaijin? I was pondering the possibility of going over to Japan and trying to get a job as a Sauna Boy, but I'm afraid they might ask me to take off my turban. And if you're a Sauna Boy can you get fired for sexual harrassment? Not that I was planning on doing that myself of course. Asking for a friend.[/QUOTE]We may not experience same, we only experience from what we are. Romanians are my best for woman reactions and behavior, what I look for. I don't need hardcore sex or to have my ass licked, but I really enjoy to feel woman reactions. Some Germans can be woman for sex, not many, most being almost like robot, but except my German escort, about their behavior, I feel too much they are at work, not much illusion, so, not much interesting for me. Among my Russian escorts, some are real beauties, some are fire in bed, but they are on tour to make money and return home, even can sometimes have Russian nights for 200/250 with restaurant and gift like perfume or Disney toy for child, then little mum become so generous for sex. But Romanians who have only dick pimp level for sex for experience, first they say: You are too big for my small pussy, even when married for 1 year, but they must only play cards in bed. So you say: trust me, I will take care of You. Then, even busy, they return, saying: I know how You treated me. Then they start to look what you do, which girl you go with, how you behave with other girls, asking: she is your girlfriend? I remember full busy superstar Kate at Globe who was jealous about Larissa on 2016 , even I always went with Kate first because I went for her, even I was so happy to find again Isabella after 2 years, also telling me on Summer 2018: You found a new girlfriend? About Sofia. Busy, but always looking at what I was doing, even she was my number 1 at Globe and a long time in business, but only you behave like this, as she said. Some ask: You do the same with other girls? Some take risk and say: I don t want you go with other girls, when they risk answer like: we are not married, I pay so I can go with everybody, but, for few of us, if You go with another girl, then she will prefer to lose your money, even you may be her biggest money, this is interesting when they are ready to lose what they pay entry for, and even when they are not so busy. I know I made a mistake on Vatertag 2015 at World, when she disappointed me for second time, but when she saw me going with another girl, when I saw her eyes, and baby face was sweet but so low level. Funny at LR, when I said to Daria I couldn't go with her, but I kissed her with tenderness, I received dark eyes even when she was with another guy, but I saw her so proud when Daria left, sometimes to go to cry, coming back after drinking with Karina who came to me shouting: What You do to my friend? From your behavior, from how You treat them, from how You are able to value them and nothing about money, they may delay bigger money, but only money, for You. Even really busy, but they look at what You are doing, they are so happy when gossiping guys give them information about You, but they know gossiping guys are just from jealousy. Romanian beauties, because beauties always play on higher level than GND, are best players for love games, because they like to be treated as princess, and since I was a little boy, I always preferred princess than average looks. This is why I drive so many kilometers to FKK land, to create beautiful princesses for me, had to work hard with some who were really low level for sex, to make them improve and become good for me, to dream, to forget a bit, but this is only a game. When a prostitute ask You for love, then this is time to run away, because many problems which kill pleasure. Anyway, impossible for me with a girl who fuck with everybody, so not so risky game for me to play love, even I sometimes go really into, but I have my warnings. Anyway behavior is more important for me than trash sex, and Romanian beauties are my best for this. Some are close to French women and same jealousy. Also same sensuality, when real lack of sensuality for Germans who are mostly in technique.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2448029]Perhaps someone who speaks a second language to a level beyond the knowledge of people who speak it as their mother tongue. Your nationalistic pride is respectable but your presentation can be a bit offensive. Just saying. LOL LOL this is a sex forum. I appreciate some good banter but within reason. Perhaps a bit of self respect could be displayed. LOL LOL.[/QUOTE]Well said. English is my second language, and I sincerely think, without excessive lack of humility, that I speak, or write it, better than many.
I don't agree that excessive nationalistic pride is acceptable. You start from apparently "inoffensive" banter, and it leads to. What we all either lived, or for those younger, learnt in history books.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2448176]By the way Dreams, still waiting for you in the Lounge to compare soaplands to FKKs. For example, would you say on average that Japanese girls have sweeter personalities than Romanian girls?
Also, how are employment opportunities for a gaijin? I was pondering the possibility of going over to Japan and trying to get a job as a Sauna Boy, but I'm afraid they might ask me to take off my turban. And if you're a Sauna Boy can you get fired for sexual harrassment? Not that I was planning on doing that myself of course. Asking for a friend.[/QUOTE]I had answered, but because I did something wrong some 5 years ago, all my posts have to be checked before being posted, and I think I, again, broke one rule: mentioning a competing site. So I assume my post was not posted. Will try to answer your questions again, being careful not to breach any rule! So watch the space there.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2448159]I never mentioned about your English ability and hey, I just woke up and writing this, this is sex forum as I said, I don't and I am sure you don't check your writing as well, I think some people should relax here LOL.[/QUOTE]I was meaning you don't seem most often to understand meaning of my words, for example my last girlfriend didn't break my heart, but she and her love are still stuck deep inside of me, 10 years later, which is problem to make a new life, even our start was complicated, mostly because of her husband who treated her like shit but was jealous she became happy, always smiling with me, even very complicated for me with no sex at our beginning, because she didn't like sex with him and so big frustration for me when you desire a beautiful woman. She told me: I thought you would leave me, you would not wait for me. She never saw my very wet eyes when too big frustration, but patience, love and manners to try slowly, softly and sweetly succeeded. I was proud when after she asked me for, with her words: you come to bed, I wait for you, with her so beautiful smile. In brothels, when I succeed to find a attractive girl, rare for me, I usually go only with her, easier to avoid jealousy and closer to reality for my mind, but when I usually get the prettiest FKK girls, beauties are usually attracted by my manners with women, but real pride and success for me, much more than making money, would have been to meet her when we were both young and to have my whole life only with her, this would have been real success for me, when I was only happy she did thank me for happiness she discovered on her second life, I was a mother, you made me woman, as she said. Much more Interesting than brothels, even I enjoy when beauties trust me and follow my games.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2448176]........... it does seem kinda wasted on the Romanians, as 90% of them haven't a molecule of romance in their barbie bodies and will just be thinking about how to screw every penny out of every sentiment you can offer them...............[/QUOTE]You can safely substitute prostitutes for Romanians in this post. Many women who become hookers have been used, lied to, cheated on, swindled and abused by men. Many, therefore, do not have a favorable view of men and seek to extract as much money out of them as possible. Also many men have been cheated on, lied to, used and swindled by women. These men also don't have a favorable view of women. I can tell from some posts especially in the Asian and Latin American forums that there are hurting men from the terrible things they say about women and their attitude towards them in the p4p scenario.
I am fortunate never to have allowed myself to have been negatively affected by women. In the p4p environment I treat all women with courtesy and respect even if their intention is to use me, chew me and spit me out. I have evolved to not be too concerned about those women who provide poor service, it always works out to be about 10%, I accept that and go with the flow. I have met numerous delightful women in this business a lot of them Eastern Europeans. Many are sweet although not so good looking. How can I forget Romanian Aime who on my first visit this year in January made a heart thingy with her fingers when she saw me on my entrance in Sharks. I will continue to show them love.
In this dark time, when with one of the best medical level, we have more than 30.000 deaths in France with deaths at home, but a good news for me is, despite poverty and very average medical level, Africa manage quite well at the moment about virus. I m very happy for them. Few explanations: not many diabetics, not many hypertension, quite young population because of many other diseases. I think we should forbid US foods for our children who are becoming fat and diabetic or with hypertension. African foods seem better for health. This show once again figures about virus are much more mirror about how we live than about medical level, when Africa seem to perform better than US and Western Europe. Not sure Brazil now under crisis, but with their president, will succeed like Africa.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2448283]I was meaning you don't seem most often to understand meaning of my words, for example my last girlfriend didn't break my heart, but she and her love are still stuck deep inside of me, 10 years later, which is problem to make a new life, even our start was complicated, mostly because of her husband who treated her like shit but was jealous she became happy, always smiling with me, even very complicated for me with no sex at our beginning, because she didn't like sex with him and so big frustration for me when you desire a beautiful woman. She told me: I thought you would leave me, you would not wait for me. She never saw my very wet eyes when too big frustration, but patience, love and manners to try slowly, softly and sweetly succeeded. I was proud when after she asked me for, with her words: you come to bed, I wait for you, with her so beautiful smile. In brothels, when I succeed to find a attractive girl, rare for me, I usually go only with her, easier to avoid jealousy and closer to reality for my mind, but when I usually get the prettiest FKK girls, beauties are usually attracted by my manners with women, but real pride and success for me, much more than making money, would have been to meet her when we were both young and to have my whole life only with her, this would have been real success for me, when I was only happy she did thank me for happiness she discovered on her second life, I was a mother, you made me woman, as she said. Much more Interesting than brothels, even I enjoy when beauties trust me and follow my games.[/QUOTE]Well each their own for FKK, but FKK is place to buy sex, not place to seek treatment for lost love, but it is each their own. I use FKK just for sexual desire and things I cannot or should not do with normal girls. Plus I hate this whole process of getting girls to the extent I prefer fucking beautiful prostitute than beautiful normal girl. I need hard dirty sex.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2448244]I'm sure lots of sex workers are repulsed by men acting like love-sick puppies who may become creepy stalkers. They prefer customers who behave like grown-ups and are aware that they are paying for a sexual relationship, nothing else, nothing more. It has nothing to do with Romanians, they are not looking for romance. Neither are the Germans or every other nationalities.[/QUOTE]Yeah, but many sex workers like to use that "lovesickness" to increase their profits. How often has not a prostitute told a customer that he is good looking or in other ways complimented him to make him feel like they have a real connection and the sex will be great? I do believe that prostitutes knows that they can make more money selling a fantasy than just sex. Indirectly the prostitutes are encouraging that lovesickness.
In one club a sex worker went around introducing a client as her "boyfriend" to her friends. Another told her prey that she would have dated him if they met at a regular nightclub.
Although that behavior is more common among Latinas, they are much better saleswomen / actresses than Romanians.
If a prostitute told her customers what she really thought of them, LMFAO! She would be out of business and no man would be able to get an erection with her.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2448244]I'm sure lots of sex workers are repulsed by men acting like love-sick puppies who may become creepy stalkers. They prefer customers who behave like grown-ups and are aware that they are paying for a sexual relationship, nothing else, nothing more. It has nothing to do with Romanians, they are not looking for romance. Neither are the Germans or every other nationalities.[/QUOTE]Wow Bigbuddy69, we agree on this one LOL!
Girls usually hate guys who like have mental related session like true love feeling kind of session etc. They much prefer pure sexual session clients who pay for some fetish act like me with rimjob.
However, girls continue to go with these lovesick puppy clients because usually, these guys are the most returning and most paying clients in long run, but inside girls hate such clients the most because it is most complicated and also as you mentioned, they become like stalkers wanting to know her real name, where she lives etc. There has been some murder incidents with such clients and FKK girl.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2448357]In this dark time, when with one of the best medical level, we have more than 30.000 deaths in France with deaths at home, but a good news for me is, despite poverty and very average medical level, Africa manage quite well at the moment about virus. I m very happy for them. Few explanations: not many diabetics, not many hypertension, quite young population because of many other diseases. I think we should forbid US foods for our children who are becoming fat and diabetic or with hypertension. African foods seem better for health. This show once again figures about virus are much more mirror about how we live than about medical level, when Africa seem to perform better than US and Western Europe. Not sure Brazil now under crisis, but with their president, will succeed like Africa.[/QUOTE]How the hell with best medical level or medical system can have 30000 deaths, it is not, look at the fact.
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2448370]If a prostitute told her customers what she really thought of them, LMFAO! She would be out of business and no man would be able to get an erection with her.[/QUOTE]One time a Romanian tute at Oase really pissed me off from something she said. She stated in a rather condescending way that I wasn't "normal" (and ultimately not good enough for her outside of the club I gathered) because I patronized a place like Oase. Now, although that pissed me off, I didn't react. Not going to let a tute ruin my vibe. But I did think, "So what does your working here say about you then"? But no, I didn't react. I just went with her to the room and got my nuts sucked. Then I fucked her in the ass! And she was good too. Tit for tat!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2448412]How the hell with best medical level or medical system can have 30000 deaths, it is not, look at the fact.[/QUOTE]Because the virus spread really fast in France. Wearing a mask was not encouraged until recently. Mostly because there were no stocks actually. Lots of people thought it was just a big flu and didn't change their habits until the lockdown.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2448363]Well each their own for FKK, but FKK is place to buy sex, not place to seek treatment for lost love, but it is each their own. I use FKK just for sexual desire and things I cannot or should not do with normal girls. Plus I hate this whole process of getting girls to the extent I prefer fucking beautiful prostitute than beautiful normal girl. I need hard dirty sex.[/QUOTE]I hate dirty things, I was used to princess types, meaning elegant with good manners, in real life, I learned sex with princesses, not with porn or prostitutes, I know only this way for sex and I don't need to change, best sex for me is the closest to my past real life.
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2448370]Yeah, but many sex workers like to use that "lovesickness" to increase their profits. How often has not a prostitute told a customer that he is good looking or in other ways complimented him to make him feel like they have a real connection and the sex will be great? I do believe that prostitutes knows that they can make more money selling a fantasy than just sex. Indirectly the prostitutes are encouraging that lovesickness.
In one club a sex worker went around introducing a client as her "boyfriend" to her friends. Another told her prey that she would have dated him if they met at a regular nightclub.
Although that behavior is more common among Latinas, they are much better saleswomen / actresses than Romanians.
If a prostitute told her customers what she really thought of them, LMFAO! She would be out of business and no man would be able to get an erection with her.[/QUOTE]I know you did not mention Sirioja but he does not come across as a love puppy. He says he makes a continual assessment of the girls based on their behavior. He prefers girls who look and behave in a certain way and it works for him. He also said many times that girls who appeal to him may not appeal to other men. I have found my likes and girl picks usually do not match his, and that does not bother me. He likes his girls, I like mine.
I don't understand this constant snippy back and forth "my tatstes, my way, my selections yadda yadda are better than yours". It is pretty pathetic to be cheest thumping about how great, rich, educated, smart, good looking, your are and how big is your dick. In an anonymous internet forum. Around here, anyone can play any role he wants to.
BTW, my comment is not directed at you ShooBree. I enjoy your posts.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2448482]One time a Romanian tute at Oase really pissed me off from something she said. She stated in a rather condescending way that I wasn't "normal" (and ultimately not good enough for her outside of the club I gathered) because I patronized a place like Oase. Now, although that pissed me off, I didn't react. Not going to let a tute ruin my vibe. But I did think, "So what does your working here say about you then"? But no, I didn't react. I just went with her to the room and got my nuts sucked. Then I fucked her in the ass! And she was good too. Tit for tat![/QUOTE]There are actually some girls who think differently. When I was working regularly in the south Caribbean I used to regularly patronize a cute Indian working girl. We were having small talk after sex one day and I mentioned to her the possibility of her getting into a serious relationship with a regular client. Her response was that that is ok but he will always use where he met her against her in future arguments. Interesting perspective.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2448516]There are actually some girls who think differently. When I was working regularly in the south Caribbean I used to regularly patronize a cute Indian working girl. We were having small talk after sex one day and I mentioned to her the possibility of her getting into a serious relationship with a regular client. Her response was that that is ok but he will always use where he met her against her in future arguments. Interesting perspective.[/QUOTE]Many, many prostitutes have told me something similar, but leading to a solidly different conclusion. That they did not want any long term ties to a client because he would always see her as a prostitute, and that if they got into an argument, the guy would use it against her. One told me that she was even concerned that she might be called a puta in front of the kids. So, they would rather look for something serious with somebody who knew nothing of their past.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2448411]Wow Bigbuddy69, we agree on this one LOL!
Girls usually hate guys who like have mental related session like true love feeling kind of session etc. They much prefer pure sexual session clients who pay for some fetish act like me with rimjob.[/QUOTE]Sorry to disappoint you but I don't think they like to taste your shit either.
[QUOTE]However, girls continue to go with these lovesick puppy clients because usually, these guys are the most returning and most paying clients in long run, but inside girls hate such clients the most because it is most complicated and also as you mentioned, they become like stalkers wanting to know her real name, where she lives etc.l.[/QUOTE]They keep going with them until they're fed up or really uncomfortable with all this servile fascination shit (or they meet other dudes who guarantee them the same income without all this mess). Then the guy goes crying all over about this imaginary break-up and how she destroyed her own image.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2448487]Because the virus spread really fast in France. Wearing a mask was not encouraged until recently. Mostly because there were no stocks actually. Lots of people thought it was just a big flu and didn't change their habits until the lockdown.[/QUOTE]I think Medical level of France and Italy are same or at least in same range with any G7 nations or some other nation like Switzerland etc, but I think destruction of hospital system lead to many death. How that happened is not the fault of hospitals, but I would say more the fault of government not putting restriction on admission to hospitals among other reasons that are not fault of hospitals entirely.
As for people walking around. For instance, Japan cannot do full lock down like in Europe or USA because we do not have law to force people, so government just asked citizens to stay home, which many people did because we are quite disciplined, but obviously there are some who did not stay home and kept on living normal life style including commuting train. However, death rates were kept down. The reason for this is that there are some speculation about BCG vaccines, when you born in Japan and few other nations in the world, babies are oblige to take BCG vaccines, and there is speculation around saying this BCG vaccines may have prevent people from getting infected easily or symptom shifting from mild to heavy.
It is crazy era we get to experience, who would have thought we will experience something like this except in some Hollywood panic movie.
Avigan and one more corona medicine from USA works on mild symptoms, and they are about to be approved fully and dispatched, so let hope it will help to decrease death a little bit.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2448527]Sorry to disappoint you but I don't think they like to taste your shit either.
They keep going with them until they're fed up or really uncomfortable with all this servile fascination shit (or they meet other dudes who guarantee them the same income without all this mess). Then the guy goes crying all over about this imaginary break-up and how she destroyed her own image.[/QUOTE]Who does like to lick anal for money, I know that, they are not Toto toilet.
However, it is demand and supply, I have my demand and they supply based on consensus. I know that.
But these guys who are in infatuation with FKK girls tend to think only they get the service from FKK girls and think they are special based on the lies FKK girls tell them and it can be dangerous situation both for FKK girls and such guys.
I go to FKK purely for lust and sex. But there are guys who go to FKK to fulfill things that are missing in their lives, like love relationship they lost or loneliness or need of life partner, girls capitalize on that, but sometimes these things goes out of control and lead to some tragic event like murder of FKK girls. I hear two events like that happened in past 10 years and I am sure there are more.
It is mild mental sickness that can lead to serious outcome.
I even know some case where client do not like other client because he go with the FKK girl he likes. , when I heard that I thought, these guys should see what kind of rimjob sessions I do in room in acrobatic position LOL!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2448507]I hate dirty things, I was used to princess types, meaning elegant with good manners, in real life, I learned sex with princesses, not with porn or prostitutes, I know only this way for sex and I don't need to change, best sex for me is the closest to my past real life.[/QUOTE]Me too, but I cannot do somethings I do in FKK to normal girls because they could talk, but in FKK, it is no string attached, so I fulfill my dirty lust with most beautiful girls, including some of your princesses as it is FKK and free to fuck any girls inside how we want based on consensus.
So you fuck her princess princess style and I fuck her dirty like pierre woodman style, so it is like porn, you are princess type actor and I am woodman style actor LOL! We both are porn actors in FKK with diffrent style who pays LOL!
[QUOTE=TheCane;2448520]Many, many prostitutes have told me something similar, but leading to a solidly different conclusion. That they did not want any long term ties to a client because he would always see her as a prostitute, and that if they got into an argument, the guy would use it against her. One told me that she was even concerned that she might be called a puta in front of the kids. So, they would rather look for something serious with somebody who knew nothing of their past.[/QUOTE]But senpai cane. They are prostitute and puta LOL!
Honesty is very important in relationship LOL!
Puta prostitutesky LOL!
[QUOTE=TheCane;2448520]Many, many prostitutes have told me something similar, but leading to a solidly different conclusion. That they did not want any long term ties to a client because he would always see her as a prostitute, and that if they got into an argument, the guy would use it against her. One told me that she was even concerned that she might be called a puta in front of the kids. So, they would rather look for something serious with somebody who knew nothing of their past.[/QUOTE]Using that logic a guy should not want to marry a girl he met in an FKK cause she might call him a monger in front of the kids.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2448686]Using that logic a guy should not want to marry a girl he met in an FKK cause she might call him a monger in front of the kids.[/QUOTE]And I don't think "bad" or "faulty" logic either. It's simply the other side of the coin. We're all so conditioned to look at it from jut the point of the women. But what about the men? I think the same sort of concern is there for men, but expressed differently. A prostitute may not want "something more" with a client because she feels she would never be able to bury her past. And a client may not want "something more" with a prostitute because "that's not the kind of girl you bring home to your family", and if you do, that says as much about you as a man as it does about the girl. You'll never be able to live it down among your family and friends. That you knowingly consorted with prostitutes, and married one. She can't escape that past, and neither can the man, who might want to move on as well. Two sides of the same coin. I'm not saying that this is always going to be an issue or the actual outcome of such marriages, but we know it's nothing far-fetched at all. We all understand the societal judgments and pressure around prostitution. But what if the man didn't know she had been a prostitute, or if she didn't know he had been a monger, and they found out in detail only after the marriage? Now to me, this is a far more interesting situation. You thought you married the sweetest, most innocent girl in the world, but then come to find out she was taking multiple cum shots to the lips 5 to 6 days a week LOL! Now what you going to do LOLOLOL!
[QUOTE=Turgid;2448686]Using that logic a guy should not want to marry a girl he met in an FKK cause she might call him a monger in front of the kids.[/QUOTE]Normally grown-ups should realize that they're not going in a FKK to find a wife.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2448643]Me too, but I cannot do somethings I do in FKK to normal girls because they could talk, but in FKK, it is no string attached, so I fulfill my dirty lust with most beautiful girls, including some of your princesses as it is FKK and free to fuck any girls inside how we want based on consensus.
So you fuck her princess princess style and I fuck her dirty like pierre woodman style, so it is like porn, you are princess type actor and I am woodman style actor LOL! We both are porn actors in FKK with diffrent style who pays LOL![/QUOTE]I'm I think more than double size for length and thickness than ridiculous wini wini old dog, french porn actor, fat Woodman, so I don't need with girls, when brothels girls ask me to be careful with them and they know how I behave with them. I don't need to free my frustration with prostitutes, because I don't have sexual frustration from my real life girlfriends, I just pay for only mind pleasure, I don't ask for love, I don't beg anything, I just enjoy love sex, not just emptying balls, my best pleasure is what they can do for behavior for me, coming to me, always choosing me first like I experienced at GT, World, Sharks, Oase, 3 girls at LR, Globe, delaying bigger money. I don't know when German brothels will reopen, maybe Austria on beginning of July, but I m 100% sure when I will go, if I succeed to find a attractive beauty with good manners, the most difficult for me, then like in any club, after time to adapt to each other, I will become like each time her first choice and even locals will have to wait, like Germans at LR or Sharks. Real facts, some here witnessed.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2448412]How the hell with best medical level or medical system can have 30000 deaths, it is not, look at the fact.[/QUOTE]From your island, you don't understand about how virus is working. In Europe, UK have highest deaths. In the world, most powerful country, US, have highest deaths, when poor African countries who have so high medical level compare to US, UK, France, Italy and Spain, may have lower deaths than Germany. Try to find how really work this virus and also about Japanese Kawasaki syndrome for Western Europe children. Ask doctors why these surprising fortunate figures in poor Africa, much less under US foods, with much less fat, diabetics, hypertension and not so old population because of other diseases. Unfortunately, in France, like in US and UK, we have more and more fat, obese, diabetics, heart in prison in fat, and they are not Sumos. I wonder how Sumos would resist to virus infection.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2448766]From your island, you don't understand about how virus is working. In Europe, UK have highest deaths. In the world, most powerful country, US, have highest deaths, when poor African countries who have so high medical level compare to US, UK, France, Italy and Spain, may have lower deaths than Germany. Try to find how really work this virus and also about Japanese Kawasaki syndrome for Western Europe children. Ask doctors why these surprising fortunate figures in poor Africa, much less under US foods, with much less fat, diabetics, hypertension and not so old population because of other diseases. Unfortunately, in France, like in US and UK, we have more and more fat, obese, diabetics, heart in prison in fat, and they are not Sumos. I wonder how Sumos would resist to virus infection.[/QUOTE]As for European death rates, it is lack of organization and not so much the fault of hospitals beside they failed to keep the bed open, but you don't have treatment for this like Avigan, which even in Japan we do not use on everybody because we cannot because numbers are still limited and are in production now. It is getting fully approved this month and first batch will be dispatched to world and to also to all Japanese hospitals. Till now, ministry of health decide who get avigan or not and had to sign clinical trial contract before, but avigan was working good on mild symptom patients with in 6 weeks of infections.
It is not because of just fat obese people they are dying, it is lack of government failed to save medical system and also your life style that is not hygiene enough and also your behavior of do not listen to the fact, masks are good example.
And hey, France had this virus since December by the way. We has it from January, but France did not even realize this virus till like March. So do the math. It is actually Europe who had it before Japan. And I was in Europe in Jan and Feb so I was lucky LOL.
Plus hey, Kawasaki syndrome is disease found by Dr Kawasaki, so it is not like we give to France, you guys got it yourself. Thank Dr Kawasaki for finding disease for you because it is curable.
However, as for corona virus, let see if vaccines will be invented soon. Avigan and other medicine for ebora by USA is just a counter strategy and it is not vaccines for it, but it works.
I disagree that Africa has better medical care than USA. I think USA is better in medical and technology field than most European nations and more than France this is face. Also Japan too, only nation that can compete with Japan in Europe is Germany. And USA is bigger than Japan. USA is number one nation no matter what others may think, this is the fact. Death per population is most important figure, USA is big country.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2448755]I'm I think more than double size for length and thickness than ridiculous wini wini old dog, french porn actor, fat Woodman, so I don't need with girls, when brothels girls ask me to be careful with them and they know how I behave with them. I don't need to free my frustration with prostitutes, because I don't have sexual frustration from my real life girlfriends, I just pay for only mind pleasure, I don't ask for love, I don't beg anything, I just enjoy love sex, not just emptying balls, my best pleasure is what they can do for behavior for me, coming to me, always choosing me first like I experienced at GT, World, Sharks, Oase, 3 girls at LR, Globe, delaying bigger money. I don't know when German brothels will reopen, maybe Austria on beginning of July, but I m 100% sure when I will go, if I succeed to find a attractive beauty with good manners, the most difficult for me, then like in any club, after time to adapt to each other, I will become like each time her first choice and even locals will have to wait, like Germans at LR or Sharks. Real facts, some here witnessed.[/QUOTE]I don't think woodman has frustration with real time girl friend LOL, it is just his fetish and style to fuck like that. I am sure he has romantic sex now and then too without calling girls chien and spank them LOL!
Just like in P6 activities, in medical communities money motivates. I write this without evidence or first hand knowledge, so I will be careful with wording and punctuation. Is it true that in the US a hospital gets paid over 56 times more if a patients cause of death is ruled to be from COVID-19 rather than the flu? If the numbers are $17000 compared to $300 could this possibly motivate hospitals to find more COVID-19 deaths?
I'm not saying see-19 isn't out there and killing people. I also believe lifestyle and discipline lead to the propagation of see-19 in the US. Some segments of our nation don't take it seriously or maybe they do but their actions seem to indicate otherwise. Our social system is not set up to continuously pay 70% of the nation near full wages when not working. I expect the architects of the system never imagined such a scenario. Yes, unfortunately, it seems the many of the essential jobs are filled by the poorer populace who can't afford to miss work.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2448755]I'm I think more than double size for length and thickness than ridiculous wini wini old dog, french porn actor, fat Woodman, so I don't need with girls, when brothels girls ask me to be careful with them and they know how I behave with them. I don't need to free my frustration with prostitutes, because I don't have sexual frustration from my real life girlfriends, I just pay for only mind pleasure, I don't ask for love, I don't beg anything, I just enjoy love sex, not just emptying balls, my best pleasure is what they can do for behavior for me, coming to me, always choosing me first like I experienced at GT, World, Sharks, Oase, 3 girls at LR, Globe, delaying bigger money. I don't know when German brothels will reopen, maybe Austria on beginning of July, but I m 100% sure when I will go, if I succeed to find a attractive beauty with good manners, the most difficult for me, then like in any club, after time to adapt to each other, I will become like each time her first choice and even locals will have to wait, like Germans at LR or Sharks. Real facts, some here witnessed.[/QUOTE]I would add, when everybody except girls who experienced me know I'm a bad french guy, I remember my LR Eve telling me: You are my french man, so I told her: but you had others and even before me, so she answered: You are my only french man, then she wanted to put my hair in Romanian fashion style, meaning up on the head, I did hate this, I don't know why all girls want to touch my hair, when some say: don't touch my hair, but if french Woodman can be a model for way for sex for some, fortunately only porn comedy, because he is just a shame for french men, for me, for his image and sexual violent behavior. I'm not a specialist in porn, but I m surprised nobody thought to make a movie showing to men how to make love to a woman, then men should learn how to take care of a woman, then wife won t refuse boring sex as they say, having headache, my 2 last girlfriends were married before me and refused to have sex with their husband, as they said: they were only mother, I remember ex husbands faces when seeing ex wife full smiling with me, feeling woman, taking care of their look to be the prettiest for me as they said, last asking me to go with her to buy shoes, dresses, lingerie, not to pay but to choose, when sometimes I would have preferred to watch sports, but at least girls who sold laughed when seeing us choosing lingerie, for sure they shouldn't see many couples like us. Then, in this time and even without virus, married men could have wife asking for pleasure. I learned in my life women don t ask often for sex except when they want a baby, but they ask often for pleasure when they tasted and they can even become exhausting, so, no need to go to brothels, when girls tell me: many are married and look at me like a martian when I tell them: If I have a girlfriend, I will stay with her, I will build for her, then I don't need you anymore. Most of guys should think about deserving their wife, they didn't buy her with a ring and wedding. I always thought more value without, when we are free to leave when we want.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2448690]Now what you going to do LOLOLOL![/QUOTE]Never accept her "no" answer when I ask to cum in her mouth.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2448803]As for European death rates, it is lack of organization and not so much the fault of hospitals beside they failed to keep the bed open, but you don't have treatment for this like Avigan, which even in Japan we do not use on everybody because we cannot because numbers are still limited and are in production now. It is getting fully approved this month and first batch will be dispatched to world and to also to all Japanese hospitals. Till now, ministry of health decide who get avigan or not and had to sign clinical trial contract before, but avigan was working good on mild symptom patients with in 6 weeks of infections.
It is not because of just fat obese people they are dying, it is lack of government failed to save medical system and also your life style that is not hygiene enough and also your behavior of do not listen to the fact, masks are good example.
And hey, France had this virus since December by the way. We has it from January, but France did not even realize this virus till like March. So do the math. It is actually Europe who had it before Japan. And I was in Europe in Jan and Feb so I was lucky LOL.
Plus hey, Kawasaki syndrome is disease found by Dr Kawasaki, so it is not like we give to France, you guys got it yourself. Thank Dr Kawasaki for finding disease for you because it is curable.
However, as for corona virus, let see if vaccines will be invented soon. Avigan and other medicine for ebora by USA is just a counter strategy and it is not vaccines for it, but it works.
I disagree that Africa has better medical care than USA. I think USA is better in medical and technology field than most European nations and more than France this is face. Also Japan too, only nation that can compete with Japan in Europe is Germany. And USA is bigger than Japan. USA is number one nation no matter what others may think, this is the fact. Death per population is most important figure, USA is big country.[/QUOTE]You really don't understand words meanings and ironic. US figures, not mine, are at least 135.000 deaths on Summer and they don't even know about many poor and illegals. Does it mean they are lower medical level than Africa, of course not. There must be a reason when both don't respect confined, just impossible in Africa. Also 30 millions more unemployed in US, more than 10 millions more in France.
Seem spreading started on October, after military sport competition in Wuhan, but at this time, nobody knew what it was.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2448916]Never accept her "no" answer when I ask to cum in her mouth.[/QUOTE]Hahaha! Either it's CIM or I want a divorce LOL!
This interesting and genuinely informative and valuable guide on this issue comes from a country which was traditionally to sexual freedom what North Korea is to human rights (My own nation. Ireland).
[URL]https://www.sexualhealthcentre.com/news/2020/4/9/the-sexual-health-centre-launches-safety-guide-for-sex-workers-during-covid-19[/URL]
TBH given such restrictions, I think I will wait until things calm down!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2448899]I would add, when everybody except girls who experienced me know I'm a bad french guy, I remember my LR Eve telling me: You are my french man, so I told her: but you had others and even before me, so she answered: You are my only french man, then she wanted to put my hair in Romanian fashion style, meaning up on the head, I did hate this, I don't know why all girls want to touch my hair, when some say: don't touch my hair, but if french Woodman can be a model for way for sex for some, fortunately only porn comedy, because he is just a shame for french men, for me, for his image and sexual violent behavior. I'm not a specialist in porn, but I m surprised nobody thought to make a movie showing to men how to make love to a woman, then men should learn how to take care of a woman, then wife won t refuse boring sex as they say, having headache, my 2 last girlfriends were married before me and refused to have sex with their husband, as they said: they were only mother, I remember ex husbands faces when seeing ex wife full smiling with me, feeling woman, taking care of their look to be the prettiest for me as they said, last asking me to go with her to buy shoes, dresses, lingerie, not to pay but to choose, when sometimes I would have preferred to watch sports, but at least girls who sold laughed when seeing us choosing lingerie, for sure they shouldn't see many couples like us. Then, in this time and even without virus, married men could have wife asking for pleasure. I learned in my life women don t ask often for sex except when they want a baby, but they ask often for pleasure when they tasted and they can even become exhausting, so, no need to go to brothels, when girls tell me: many are married and look at me like a martian when I tell them: If I have a girlfriend, I will stay with her, I will build for her, then I don't need you anymore. Most of guys should think about deserving their wife, they didn't buy her with a ring and wedding. I always thought more value without, when we are free to leave when we want.[/QUOTE]You are one of very few who actually believe what prostitutes says to you in brothel LOL!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2448803]As for European death rates, it is lack of organization and not so much the fault of hospitals beside they failed to keep the bed open, but you don't have treatment for this like Avigan, which even in Japan we do not use on everybody because we cannot because numbers are still limited and are in production now. It is getting fully approved this month and first batch will be dispatched to world and to also to all Japanese hospitals. Till now, ministry of health decide who get avigan or not and had to sign clinical trial contract before, but avigan was working good on mild symptom patients with in 6 weeks of infections.
It is not because of just fat obese people they are dying, it is lack of government failed to save medical system and also your life style that is not hygiene enough and also your behavior of do not listen to the fact, masks are good example.
And hey, France had this virus since December by the way. We has it from January, but France did not even realize this virus till like March. So do the math. It is actually Europe who had it before Japan. And I was in Europe in Jan and Feb so I was lucky LOL.[/QUOTE]It is very complex to understand why some countries or even regions are hit so badly. Wearing masks, keeping social distancing seems to be the key drivers for success. What happen in France, Italy, Spain is just showing how weak those countries are becoming in protecting their citizens. East part of Germany is far less impacted (except Berlin) than Bayern, NRW. But when you look at a big city like Bremen the number of cases is very low, why. Overall the cities are much more impacted than the country side, also very true in the US. Why Greece which is in a bad economical situation for decades, whit a very old population, a weak health care system is so successful to fight covid 19, difficult for the moment to answer. For me, this disease is just having terrible consequences for most of us and we will have to pay for all the QE.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2448841]Just like in P6 activities, in medical communities money motivates. I write this without evidence or first hand knowledge, so I will be careful with wording and punctuation. Is it true that in the US a hospital gets paid over 56 times more if a patients cause of death is ruled to be from COVID-19 rather than the flu? If the numbers are $17000 compared to $300 could this possibly motivate hospitals to find more COVID-19 deaths?..............[/QUOTE]This can be easily verified by comparing deaths from other illnesses to those during a similar period last year.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2448841]Just like in P6 activities, in medical communities money motivates. I write this without evidence or first hand knowledge, so I will be careful with wording and punctuation. Is it true that in the US a hospital gets paid over 56 times more if a patients cause of death is ruled to be from COVID-19 rather than the flu? If the numbers are $17000 compared to $300 could this possibly motivate hospitals to find more COVID-19 deaths?.[/QUOTE]A patient is diagnosed as having Covid or not based on testing, and that happens much earlier than death itself. It is not as if a patient is coming into a hospital, he tested negative for Corona, the patient dies, and then the hospital changes the cause of death from flu or whatever to Corona. That would be illegal and it is not happening, and it is just another fake story / rumor.
Hospitals get paid based on services rendered, and codes that get attached to it. If a patient is put on a ventilator, there is a DRG code for such a service and gets billed accordingly. Whether a patient has Covid or something else and has to be given a ventilator, then it is true that a ventilator was provided and accordingly hospital will charge for such a service rendered.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2449032]You are one of very few who actually believe what prostitutes says to you in brothel LOL![/QUOTE]No, I don't believe much words in FKK land of lies, but I only believe what I see and experience, much more reliable for me. But you have to understand we experience from what we are and our behavior. I don't think Romanian beauties, others don't interest me.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2449211]No, I don't believe much words in FKK land of lies, but I only believe what I see and experience, much more reliable for me. But you have to understand we experience from what we are and our behavior. I don't think Romanian beauties, others don't interest me.[/QUOTE]Well romanians are everywhere and easy to find and very easy to get good service out of them for cheaper cost than germans, but they lie the most even their nationalities, so watch out because you tend to be so much into the stories they tell you LOL! Don't be naive in FKK, it is not right place to talk, it is place to fuck LOL!
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2449063]It is very complex to understand why some countries or even regions are hit so badly. Wearing masks, keeping social distancing seems to be the key drivers for success. What happen in France, Italy, Spain is just showing how weak those countries are becoming in protecting their citizens. East part of Germany is far less impacted (except Berlin) than Bayern, NRW. But when you look at a big city like Bremen the number of cases is very low, why. Overall the cities are much more impacted than the country side, also very true in the US. Why Greece which is in a bad economical situation for decades, whit a very old population, a weak health care system is so successful to fight covid 19, difficult for the moment to answer. For me, this disease is just having terrible consequences for most of us and we will have to pay for all the QE.[/QUOTE]Right, France, Italy and Spain are weak countries and they have been for long time now. But they don't even notice this due to false pride and not knowing the world. So it maybe this corona virus thing was good lesson for them given by superior power China.
France, Spain and Italy used to be strong nations, but they are even on the edge of getting kicked out of G7 nations by economical figures, but they are more trust worthy than China, so they are given chance to stay in G7 and even though China is much stronger than France, Italy and Spain, China is out of G7 due to their credibility, unfortunately China cannot be trusted yet.
[QUOTE=WildMan;2449018]This interesting and genuinely informative and valuable guide on this issue comes from a country which was traditionally to sexual freedom what North Korea is to human rights (My own nation. Ireland).
[URL]https://www.sexualhealthcentre.com/news/2020/4/9/the-sexual-health-centre-launches-safety-guide-for-sex-workers-during-covid-19[/URL]
TBH given such restrictions, I think I will wait until things calm down![/QUOTE]There is no safe sex during covid 19, if you are monger and going to monger, then just go hard, fuck Romanian prostitutes like a pride Pierre woodman LOL!
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2448841]Just like in P6 activities, in medical communities money motivates. I write this without evidence or first hand knowledge, so I will be careful with wording and punctuation. Is it true that in the US a hospital gets paid over 56 times more if a patients cause of death is ruled to be from COVID-19 rather than the flu? If the numbers are $17000 compared to $300 could this possibly motivate hospitals to find more COVID-19 deaths?[/QUOTE]Sounds like death is a booming business. Can't think why we don't have more of it. Highly underrated, death. One of the few growth sectors in the economy in these otherwise dark days.
[URL]https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/[/URL]
[I]"if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for if they're Medicare typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."[/I]
The US Healthcare System is a Black Comedy that pretty much writes itself without any help from me. I would trust the data coming out of there about as much as the carvings of the Bushmen of Wagga Wagga Land.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2449269]Sounds like death is a booming business. Can't think why we don't have more of it. Highly underrated, death. One of the few growth sectors in the economy in these otherwise dark days.
[URL]https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/24/fact-check-medicare-hospitals-paid-more-covid-19-patients-coronavirus/3000638001/[/URL]
[I]"if it's a straightforward, garden-variety pneumonia that a person is admitted to the hospital for if they're Medicare typically, the diagnosis-related group lump sum payment would be $5,000. But if it's COVID-19 pneumonia, then it's $13,000, and if that COVID-19 pneumonia patient ends up on a ventilator, it goes up to $39,000."[/I]
The US Healthcare System is a Black Comedy that pretty much writes itself without any help from me. I would trust the data coming out of there about as much as the carvings of the Bushmen of Wagga Wagga Land.[/QUOTE]Not saying that US healthcare system or our reimbursement and pricing models are perfect. But the article sources a broadcast network and a specific person with a political angle and an ax to grind. Our payment and reimbursement is a complicated system and not something that can be summed up in a few simple sentences on a sex forum. Europeans are mostly on a state paid system and don't have to deal with these things, and if you feel that works for you, it's great. I have to say though, I have observed that you personally seem to have some sort of anti US bias due to whatever reason, perhaps some past slight you suffered? And you do take a few potshots at the US and our systems and ways whenever the opportunity presents (or sometimes you go out of the way to create that opportunity). Considering that you hide you identity very guardedly (although BFsie one time said you live in DE) I don't see how this increases any credibility if you want to take these anonymous cheap shots at a country that does not seem to be your native land. Most of us are deferential to other countries and their peoples as that seems to be right thing to do on an international forum as ISG. However, feel free to continue your ways. Shalom.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2448970]Seem spreading started on October, after military sport competition in Wuhan, but at this time, nobody knew what it was.[/QUOTE]Quite right. There was a first wave which started in November in Western Europe and went unnoticed till end of January. There is already one retrospective confirmed case form a patient who died end of December. . If there are enough blood samples kept from patients hospitalized end of 2019 from "bizarre" pneumonia, we will find many more cases.
The conclusion is that we are now at the end of a "second wave". Should we fear a third wave after end of lock down? I don't believe so.
Yahoo news:
"A new study from Chinese scientists found coronavirus particles in the semen of 16% of the male patients studied.
The virus was present in semen from both patients who had active infections and those who had recovered.
The researchers aren't sure yet whether the virus can be spread through sexual contact. ".
[QUOTE=TheCane;2447860]All I know is it's time to eat! It's dinner time everybody! Yum, yum! Hahahahaha! Call me many things, but don't call me late for dinner LOL![/QUOTE][NOPARSE]
I'm afraid Batman has become too much of a cliche. I am more drawn to the sad but touching stories of Dr. Michael Morbius, Ph.D, and Professor "Bat-woman" Zhengli.
[/NOPARSE]
[QUOTE=Dreams;2449349]Quite right. There was a first wave which started in November in Western Europe and went unnoticed till end of January. There is already one retrospective confirmed case form a patient who died end of December. . If there are enough blood samples kept from patients hospitalized end of 2019 from "bizarre" pneumonia, we will find many more cases.
The conclusion is that we are now at the end of a "second wave". Should we fear a third wave after end of lock down? I don't believe so.[/QUOTE]But only few were infected, about 6% in France, and recovering is not full immunity, when more and more obese, diabetics, with lungs or heart problems, who are at risk. Just after end of confined, German R0 increased, but they controlled below 1. With sun, people want now to go to the beach which will become full crowded, when not many swim.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2449349]Quite right. There was a first wave which started in November in Western Europe and went unnoticed till end of January. There is already one retrospective confirmed case form a patient who died end of December. . If there are enough blood samples kept from patients hospitalized end of 2019 from "bizarre" pneumonia, we will find many more cases.
The conclusion is that we are now at the end of a "second wave". Should we fear a third wave after end of lock down? I don't believe so.[/QUOTE]This is one of the most interesting things I've read about the coronavirus.
I entered Brazil in late October last year. I developed a cough which got worse from 1st November. For two weeks I had the worst bout of coughing I've ever had in my life which I treated with doctor prescribed medication. The coughing always got worst when I lay down at nights and was so bad that I could not sleep many nights. It lasted two weeks after which I had some respiratory problems. I have a friend who had the exact same experience back home around the same time. Makes me wonder.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2449211]No, I don't believe much words in FKK land of lies, but I only believe what I see and experience, much more reliable for me. But you have to understand we experience from what we are and our behavior. I don't think Romanian beauties, others don't interest me.[/QUOTE]You do believe in what Romanian prostitutes tells and shows you though LOL. It is all fake, it is called prostitution LOL!
[QUOTE=Dreams;2449349]Quite right. There was a first wave which started in November in Western Europe and went unnoticed till end of January. There is already one retrospective confirmed case form a patient who died end of December. . If there are enough blood samples kept from patients hospitalized end of 2019 from "bizarre" pneumonia, we will find many more cases.
The conclusion is that we are now at the end of a "second wave". Should we fear a third wave after end of lock down? I don't believe so.[/QUOTE]It began in France according and they could not even noticed it LOL!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2449458]But only few were infected, about 6% in France, and recovering is not full immunity, when more and more obese, diabetics, with lungs or heart problems, who are at risk. Just after end of confined, German R0 increased, but they controlled below 1. With sun, people want now to go to the beach which will become full crowded, when not many swim.[/QUOTE]France just messed up as you can see with crazy death rates and France had corona since last December and failed to even noticed they had corona virus. Death rates has little to do with fat people etc. Not all French people are fat LOL.
France did it to themselves.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449281] I don't see how this increases any credibility if you want to take these anonymous cheap shots at a country that does not seem to be your native land. [/QUOTE]I will step in since my question lead to the response you responded to. As an American, currently living in the US after nearly 2 decades living in Europe, the US healthcare system confuses me. I recently saw a doctor for a partially torn muscle in my bicep. Five minutes, they didn't even take my blood pressure. I received the bill, $256, to be told to cut back 50% on my lifting for two weeks. My health insurance doesn't cover anything yet because I haven't spent $7 k on medical this year. Oh, and I will spend $6 k out of my pocket for insurance. In the area of the US where I live the average income is less than $25 k annually. For that average group to have to potentially pay over 50% of their income on medical expenses in a year is criminal. Let's imagine they say, I'm skipping insurance because I can use that $6 k. Well, the insurance companies have negotiated rates that are less than those who don't have insurance are charged. So if you can't afford insurance the medical providers take more of your money than if you could afford the insurance.
By contrast, in Europe, my standard medical visit, which my torn bicep would fall into this category, had a charge of €28.50. In my case, I had to pay and submit the claim and 90% was returned to me by the insurance. There was no difference in price charged to someone with insurance or someone without. Part of the socialized medicine from those countries was lower medical rates. Another part is limits on awards in lawsuits. Europeans can graduate from medical school nearly debt free because university is almost free. Students have to pay for food, a place to stay and books. Many medical students serve in the social medicine sector in return for a 100% payment of their education. Brilliant people from poor families still have a chance for higher education. I feel the government regulated prices, limited lawsuit awards and affordable education result in much more effective medical systems for the entire populace of nation that participate like this.
[QUOTE=Akibono;2449492]What might make a difference is an hour test. You could be tested before or after you fly and if you are clean, you get to enter the country. Of course, you will pay for the test. I would gladly do that to gain entry.[/QUOTE]A quick test could be a way for FKK to open, everyone gets tested before they go in. I feel it would have to be quicker than an hour though.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2449498]It began in France according and they could not even noticed it LOL![/QUOTE]Like for sex, you are so impressive knowing better than doctors, when so many foreigners come to be cured and I and French who work, not many at the moment, pay for.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2449480]You do believe in what Romanian prostitutes tells and shows you though LOL. It is all fake, it is called prostitution LOL![/QUOTE]In brothels, I only believe in what I see or experience, when my best FKK girl, Romanian looking like a woman of course, was queen of lies and gossiping, the best and she improved so much, to follow me for my way in bed, but her lies and new image made her not anymore desirable for me as I told her, not anymore chic enough for my taste when I chose her for her manners when she started and she really impressed me on some times until mid March 2017 or when I returned to her on September when she needed less than 3 hours to reorganize as before. On Thursday, after sex, Russian from Moscow, not Romanian, Olga behave exactly like Romanians, she could tell me: condom is full, bye, see You, but not at all, I know she discovered with her round big eyes and she also showed me about her private, gave me Russian private to meet without management, after only 1 hour with a guy she doesn't know, when Paris is not so safe for escorts, unfortunately many were attacked, robbed and never returned and I had to drive to Milano for Tatar wow Zoya, I remember on ice on top of Gran San Bernardino when they closed on that mid October night, but maybe because she saw her little female dog so in love with me, maybe on next time she will propose me to try the dog, or maybe like many FKK, mostly Romanian, beauties, she just felt safe, from my manners and respect for women. She is different profile of escort, not on tour, but living in Paris for modeling and photos shooting and instagram, closer to normal woman and she didn't seem to have busy sex, so fresh and tight, a pretty Russian doll, but with exactly same behavior with me than Romanians. It must be my face to inspire trust, when I had many Russian girls for nights in not safe Paris and even a magic night in Peter for 400 USD. Also same behavior on my few visits in Catalunya with Ukrainian or Belarus Katya showing me her private, when Russians seen were not pretty enough, not on Olga look level.
This is for all those sceptics that think you cannot do sex in those masks.
I have no financial interest in any of those companies. But thought this could be of interest. I purchased one of those. I colleague from Singapore has one and reports they can even do running with them. Very cool.
[URL]https://www.airplus-family.com/products/family/[/URL]
[URL]https://koolmask.com[/URL]
[URL]https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/next-gen-filtration-mask-with-botanicals[/URL]#.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2449588]This is for all those sceptics that think you cannot do sex in those masks.
I have no financial interest in any of those companies. But thought this could be of interest. I purchased one of those. I colleague from Singapore has one and reports they can even do running with them. Very cool.
[URL]https://www.airplus-family.com/products/family/[/URL]
[URL]https://koolmask.com[/URL]
[URL]https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/next-gen-filtration-mask-with-botanicals[/URL]#.[/QUOTE]I would use one of those when I'm doing a girl from behind and her ass stinks. Especially the mask in the last link which had eucalyptus scent!
After research, I just bought a couple of those atmoblues.
[URL]https://atmoblue.com/index.html[/URL]
It maybe too good to be true, but this is better than FFP3 - and easier to wear. The product will cost about 4 normal 30 m sessions at GT, Sharks, or so. Since I skipped a few dozen, I had the extra money.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2449588]This is for all those sceptics that think you cannot do sex in those masks.
I have no financial interest in any of those companies. But thought this could be of interest. I purchased one of those. I colleague from Singapore has one and reports they can even do running with them. Very cool.
[URL]https://www.airplus-family.com/products/family/[/URL]
[URL]https://koolmask.com[/URL]
[URL]https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/next-gen-filtration-mask-with-botanicals[/URL]#.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2449601]After research, I just bought a couple of those atmoblues.
[URL]https://atmoblue.com/index.html[/URL]
It maybe too good to be true, but this is better than FFP3 - and easier to wear. The product will cost about 4 normal 30 m sessions at GT, Sharks, or so. Since I skipped a few dozen, I had the extra money.[/QUOTE]So you will look like the bastard son of Darth Vader and a dung fly.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2449601]After research, I just bought a couple of those atmoblues.
[URL]https://atmoblue.com/index.html[/URL]
It maybe too good to be true, but this is better than FFP3 - and easier to wear. The product will cost about 4 normal 30 m sessions at GT, Sharks, or so. Since I skipped a few dozen, I had the extra money.[/QUOTE]Are you serious? Can you enjoy sex like this? Or is it to swim at the bottom of sea. No mask nor gloves, condom because I asked her, with my Russian model escort, or I stay in my bed.
[QUOTE=Saturn11;2449537]A quick test could be a way for FKK to open, everyone gets tested before they go in. I feel it would have to be quicker than an hour though.[/QUOTE]A test at the airport upon entrance into a country would make more sense as well. Presenting a test result at immigration makes no sense as the visitor could have gotten infected after the test.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2449614]A test at the airport upon entrance into a country would make more sense as well. Presenting a test result at immigration makes no sense as the visitor could have gotten infected after the test.[/QUOTE]What is reliability for tests? Not high for those in nose.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2449601]After research, I just bought a couple of those atmoblues.
[URL]https://atmoblue.com/index.html[/URL]
It maybe too good to be true, but this is better than FFP3 - and easier to wear. The product will cost about 4 normal 30 m sessions at GT, Sharks, or so. Since I skipped a few dozen, I had the extra money.[/QUOTE]The website says the HEPA filters in the mask are only good for 150 hours of use. If you can't replace the filters (and there is no mention of replacement filters on the website), what do you do with the mask other than throw it (and your $199) away?
[QUOTE=MrHo;2449517]France just messed up as you can see with crazy death rates and France had corona since last December and failed to even noticed they had corona virus. Death rates has little to do with fat people etc. Not all French people are fat LOL.
France did it to themselves.[/QUOTE]The Wuhan Coronavirus Lab was set up with the help of the French government. There were staff going back and forth between China and France. So it wouldn't surprise me if the first outbreak outside China was in France.
Yeah, everybody blames China for this, but let's not forget the role that France and the US had in funding this dangerous research. It was kind of like the way Apple outsourced its iPhone production to Foxconn in China, a place where safety and labor laws are lax. All the workers in China just follow authority blindly, no matter how bad things get.
The Wuhan Coronavirus Lab was set up by the French government. There were staff going back and forth between China and France. So it wouldn't surprise me if the first outbreak outside China was in France.
France like a lot of French guys are willing to give lessons to everybody even the entire world, what is France today? What is the last war they won, taking out 1st and 2nd world war which they just participate modestly to the victory which would never been possible without the allies. France is a extremely spited society, in high risk of bankruptcy like Italy. Who is listening to France, USA, Germany, China? France was powerful 200 years back at least today it is just a middle size country with a lot of challenges to deal with.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2449530]I will step in since my question lead to the response you responded to. As an American, currently living in the US after nearly 2 decades living in Europe, the US healthcare system confuses me. I recently saw a doctor for a partially torn muscle in my bicep. Five minutes, they didn't even take my blood pressure. I received the bill, $256, to be told to cut back 50% on my lifting for two weeks. My health insurance doesn't cover anything yet because I haven't spent $7 k on medical this year. Oh, and I will spend $6 k out of my pocket for insurance. In the area of the US where I live the average income is less than $25 k annually. For that average group to have to potentially pay over 50% of their income on medical expenses in a year is criminal. Let's imagine they say, I'm skipping insurance because I can use that $6 k. Well, the insurance companies have negotiated rates that are less than those who don't have insurance are charged. So if you can't afford insurance the medical providers take more of your money than if you could afford the insurance.
By contrast, in Europe, my standard medical visit, which my torn bicep would fall into this category, had a charge of 28.50. In my case, I had to pay and submit the claim and 90% was returned to me by the insurance. [/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing your experience. I did respond to your prior comment related to DRG codes. I am not going to criticize or defend the US healthcare system which is indeed complex because we have a combination of payers (private insurance, CMS, Medicaid, exchanges involved, state regulations, health savings plans) and many other complications. If you want to effect change, you need to work inside the system. Anyone can criticize of course, but real change is hard to bring unless people work together and constructively. Entire elections hinge on discussions and changes in US healthcare systems, it is not as if we don't discuss these things internally.
But your situation is different from Polyamoritst's situation. His primary motive often appears to be take cheap shots at the US. See his most recent comment above for example where he makes a nonsensical, made up accusation that US and France funded the research behind Corona virus, and tied it to some incoherent rant about iPhone. When you also notice that he intentionally camouflages his own nationality in these pages and leads with the fake usage of Arab expressions (BFsie already said however that Polyamorist actually is a resident of DE, whether he is a citizen or not), such intentionally false accusations do nothing to promote a constructive and friendly exchange of info on an international site like ISG. Why would any person intentionally uses fake Arab persona, and incite a conflict between US, France, China in a place like this? What good comes out of it?
I would like to say for some guys here, France have nothing to do with my writings which are only my subjective opinions and most french on this forum or in clubs don't even agree with me, but in France, we have freedom culture, we can be communist and not persecuted, we don't hide figures when Olympics to come will give figures, to be sure about safety. In medias, France is told to have around 25000 deaths, but I wrote honestly we have unfortunately more than 30000, we know this in France, I fully agree for much too many, but at least we have explanations given and not much more than 2000 without known cause and under 70 yo, when Germany is not far from 6000 deaths. Belgium under confined is worst deaths rate, when Portugal and Greece with very average medical level, have better figures than in Germany. Many African countries have also better figures than Germany. At least in France, people and even foreigners have access to healthcare, even when not working, when poor in US don't go to hospital because they know they can't afford. Are these not real facts? When I m proud to be French, even I don't agree with economic politic, when I pay so high tax since so long, Yes, one of the biggest problem in France is highest rate of tax in the world which don't help our economy compare to China or Africa when we have much higher quality standard than most of countries in the world. If I need to be cured, I put infection in my blood when I was in Frankfurt, really difficult to drive back, I was not able to reach Paris but I fought to reach French border and I left french hospital on next day after peritonitis operation with belly cleaned with medical gaz to clean infection all over, I will never go to any other country. All french should thank our medical staff to take care of us, not only for virus. France have culture and many talents, reason why this small country is the number 1 in the world for tourism, and big loss for income on this year, same in Spain, Italy, Florida. One example for high level talents, when we have many famous artists, cookers, but when Porsche and Audi are highest level cars for me, only Ferrari and Lamborghini can compete but won't resist for same intense and long speed runs, but who build, only with hands, Bugatti which have no competitor, Ferrari or my beloved Porsche 911 turbo are far behind rockets faster than 420 km / h. I remember a NL telling me too many guys believe what I write, he is right, I don't aim to be a example, I m not, nor to have so many followers reading and repeating all what I write, I m not like my new Russian escort lovely beauty Olga, I m just proud to be different, and even paying, as a bad guy, but I would never dare to ask a girl to lick my ass, for my respect for women even prostitutes, and GT busy superstar Kate, or prettiest at Globe Megan know how I behave when they experienced both for more than 50 hours ith me. A bad guy but french Woodman is just a shameful image for men for me, I m much more impressed by Rocco Siffredi size and as I already wrote, only guys who would impress me would be those who have a woman who would say: my man makes me happy as a woman to be with him. This is what I call success to be a real man, not brothels.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2449530]I will step in since my question lead to the response you responded to. As an American, currently living in the US after nearly 2 decades living in Europe, the US healthcare system confuses me. I recently saw a doctor for a partially torn muscle in my bicep. Five minutes, they didn't even take my blood pressure. I received the bill, $256, to be told to cut back 50% on my lifting for two weeks. My health insurance doesn't cover anything yet because I haven't spent $7 k on medical this year. Oh, and I will spend $6 k out of my pocket for insurance. In the area of the US where I live the average income is less than $25 k annually. For that average group to have to potentially pay over 50% of their income on medical expenses in a year is criminal. Let's imagine they say, I'm skipping insurance because I can use that $6 k. Well, the insurance companies have negotiated rates that are less than those who don't have insurance are charged. So if you can't afford insurance the medical providers take more of your money than if you could afford the insurance.[/QUOTE]BTW, anecdotal stories like this can vary over a large range. I have an employer paid insurance. Our co pays are a few bucks, our deductibles are pretty much nothing because my employer absorbs them, and I or my family members have been in hospital stays, even a few procedures which cost north of $100 grand and we paid nothing out of pocket. We walked right into the hospital when the need arose and no referral needed because we are on PPO choice plus plans, and we don't need to go through a primary care gate keeper. I know I Am lucky to have a good plan but so do millions of other Americans. For every tough experience, there are hundreds of good experiences as well.
As for medical school tuition, yes it costs money here but the payoff is amazing. I have several friends in the physician / surgical profession and some of them are making high six figure dollar amounts annually, wand quite a few have net worth north of $5 million (the ones who have been doing for 20-30 years and where both spouses are doctors are likely even worth $10 M). I doubt that sort of wealth can be created in Europe. Their taxes are high, take home pay is lower, per capita annual net income is significantly lower, and far fewer people have millions of net worth. Is it good or bad? Depends on who you ask. I think those discussions are beyond the scope of this site. What I don't like or care for is people hiding their own nationality (which is fine actually because this is an anonymous board), giving intentionally fake hints to suggest they are from somewhere else, and then taking cheap shots at other nations.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2449639]The Wuhan Coronavirus Lab was set up with the help of the French government. There were staff going back and forth between China and France. So it wouldn't surprise me if the first outbreak outside China was in France.
Yeah, everybody blames China for this, but let's not forget the role that France and the US had in funding this dangerous research. It was kind of like the way Apple outsourced its iPhone production to Foxconn in China, a place where safety and labor laws are lax. All the workers in China just follow authority blindly, no matter how bad things get.[/QUOTE]In my point of view it is naive to think this whole thing was not planned from the get go.
The corona virus pandemic has a whole series of intentions behind it, and I bet think tanks have been all over this idea for decades!
Lets see: Globalization measurements. New currency. Scapegoat for an already well underway financial crisis (see repo loan payouts since September, or even may last year). Depopulation agenda (every resource management in UN's agenda boils down to population numbers, and earth overshoot day in August tells me quite a bit on how much they, or even we ourselves, want it reduced by). New sets of martial laws to simplify governance.
Given how the world is already run by a future AI that traveled back in time, we really don't have anything to say. Because it already knows what we have said. That is why Big Brother is everywhere around us. It is the Super AI needing to monitor us. Then again, that AI is probably just a software within the Matrix software we are living in also. To simulate our response to it by an even more super AI. And most 'humans' are probably just non playable characters too. Besides, science even seems to prove this (the double slit experiment and the mathematically more logical holographic universe theory). So it doesn't matter at all what you think or do. And the base reality might just have a totally different set of laws in its own Hilbert space as well, so the base Super AI (or true God) might just be fooling around for fun too.
Even Christianity and Hinduism hints about this. For one, Christianity claims the world is only 5600 years old or so (I think). This can only be argued for if the simulation was started from that point in time. Not that time really exists in a simulation. As it was all probably simulated simultaneously. Christianity (Book of Enoch) also mentions the fallen angels who went down to earth to have sex. So basically, we chose to enter the simulation only to fuck around. LOL! And Hinduism have this whole idea about several lifetimes. So you need to beat the game so to speak. As in trying not to fuck. What the fuck?
Alternatively, if you look at religion from a totally different point of view. Some dude, or AI might have came up with the idea with one purpose only: population control! Just look at the Aztecs and how they sacrificed humans to Quetzalcoatl. Or how the Egyptians and even later King Saul of Israel made their armies chop off the cock of their enemies after battle (and yes, that was how circumcision originated) as a fertility token to be sacrificed to the god. It was all about population control even then. So when we today have this unwritten, so called fantastically civilized rule of; no more wars, a global virus might just do the same trick.
Besides, the more people we are on this planet, or inside this Matrix simulation, the less real players to observe, the less computing power needs to be spent, the more NPC AI's. So the Super AI won't get any interesting data any longer if all it does is monitor its own little NPC 'human-AI' software programs. Or as I like to call them: sheep!
Well, take it for what its worth, but you are naive, or just a sheep, if you think I am all wack! LOL!
And if you think the computers won't handle this: We can already make computers way more than 1000 times faster than today thanks to Darpa's 3 dsoc program. But it will probably be released in stages according to the financially applicable Moore's Law.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FynNze5GkeI[/URL]
Adding all the multipliers he talks about in that video together you probably reach 100 000+ times faster compute. So self replicating nanofactories and maybe even foglets are easily within reach with the technology we have today. Especially when also adding in optics like this, bumping up the speeds even more:
[URL]https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/news/photonic-breakthrough-new-light-emitting-silicon-eliminates-heat-in-pcb-design/[/URL]
And guess what else is DARPA funded. Virus and bacteria research on pandemics such as ebola, corona and malaria. Not that it means anything. LOL.
If you had a choice of sex with mask in FKK or to wank at home without mask which would you choose?
[QUOTE=Turgid;2449614]A test at the airport upon entrance into a country would make more sense as well. Presenting a test result at immigration makes no sense as the visitor could have gotten infected after the test.[/QUOTE]Not practical. Imagine two plane loads of visitors. That is 500 people that need to be tested. At least 2 hrs. For a line to adminster the test and another hour at least to get the results and to clear people. In the mean time, you have 500 people in a holding pen infecting each other if 1 person tests positive. Then no one gets out. Meanwhile, more planes are arriving. What do you do about the people who test positive? The only solution is testing before boarding. At least then you know your fellow passengers will probably be clean.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2449557]In brothels, I only believe in what I see or experience, when my best FKK girl, Romanian looking like a woman of course, was queen of lies and gossiping, the best and she improved so much, to follow me for my way in bed, but her lies and new image made her not anymore desirable for me as I told her, not anymore chic enough for my taste when I chose her for her manners when she started and she really impressed me on some times until mid March 2017 or when I returned to her on September when she needed less than 3 hours to reorganize as before. On Thursday, after sex, Russian from Moscow, not Romanian, Olga behave exactly like Romanians, she could tell me: condom is full, bye, see You, but not at all, I know she discovered with her round big eyes and she also showed me about her private, gave me Russian private to meet without management, after only 1 hour with a guy she doesn't know, when Paris is not so safe for escorts, unfortunately many were attacked, robbed and never returned and I had to drive to Milano for Tatar wow Zoya, I remember on ice on top of Gran San Bernardino when they closed on that mid October night, but maybe because she saw her little female dog so in love with me, maybe on next time she will propose me to try the dog, or maybe like many FKK, mostly Romanian, beauties, she just felt safe, from my manners and respect for women. She is different profile of escort, not on tour, but living in Paris for modeling and photos shooting and instagram, closer to normal woman and she didn't seem to have busy sex, so fresh and tight, a pretty Russian doll, but with exactly same behavior with me than Romanians. It must be my face to inspire trust, when I had many Russian girls for nights in not safe Paris and even a magic night in Peter for 400 USD. Also same behavior on my few visits in Catalunya with Ukrainian or Belarus Katya showing me her private, when Russians seen were not pretty enough, not on Olga look level.[/QUOTE]Exactly, so you do believe in prostitutes in FKK, I don't, I appreciate their service, kindness and crazy dirty deep I don't believe she just did that kind of sex that I pay for, but once I am out of door, it is pay and good bye time, it just stay good memories, and I don't take them seriously. But you do even knowing all the names, past names, exact dates etc.
I think there are different type of monger, I am normal monger who seek sex in brothel, I want to fuck like crazy in brothel, you know real good sex. Siri, you seek for more than sex, you don't even get same level of sex as I do in FKK, you want relation with prostitutes, this is not my thing, but there are some mongers who want to have relation with prostitutes like you do and believe in prostitutes. I don't believe in prostitutes, I just fuck them good LOL! Unlike you LOL!
I am professional prostitute fucker, you are professional prostitutes worshiper LOL!
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2449639]The Wuhan Coronavirus Lab was set up with the help of the French government. There were staff going back and forth between China and France. So it wouldn't surprise me if the first outbreak outside China was in France.
Yeah, everybody blames China for this, but let's not forget the role that France and the US had in funding this dangerous research. It was kind of like the way Apple outsourced its iPhone production to Foxconn in China, a place where safety and labor laws are lax. All the workers in China just follow authority blindly, no matter how bad things get.[/QUOTE]Yes and it came back on France, and France did not even notice they had it in December. France do not have good enough technology, France is good with food and fashion, rest is same level as China, except China is much richer than France now by far.
As for USA, if you look at death per population, it is not too bad. And yes, they also were involved in lab, but to warn the danger of the lad as it was not well managed and look what happened.
It turns out Europe had corona first after China and spread around world. Look at death rates of France, Spain and Italy. It is war level death rate, and increasing.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2449540]Like for sex, you are so impressive knowing better than doctors, when so many foreigners come to be cured and I and French who work, not many at the moment, pay for.[/QUOTE]Yeah so many middle east former colony of France LOL that are still back in 19th century technology, so they got no choice. France is not good in technology or medical. Look at death rate of France, just look. It is not because of just fat people and old as you claim, France is no longer strong nation. Only Germany is strong in Europe.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2449722]If you had a choice of sex with mask in FKK or to wank at home without mask which would you choose?[/QUOTE]Plenty of FKK girls available without mask here. Didn't think North Americans wanked! You sure you are not from Notting Hill London? Thanks for your most excellent post. Great fun. Many including myself having a great laugh. Keep up all the great work. You really should post some more.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2449617]What is reliability for tests? Not high for those in nose.[/QUOTE]WSj has an article on antigen based test, from a company called Quidel. I think it uses nose swabs. Apparently the accuracy is 85%. I don't know if it gives too many false positives or false negatives. If we are going to ramp up to 4 million tests per day in the US, which currently is less than 300 K daily, we need a new type of test. PCR is too slow but accurate. Perhaps we use Antigen test as a first round test and if it is positive then we confirm with PCR.
If you had a choice of sex with mask in FKK or to wank at home without mask which would you choose?
Answer:
I am single so your proposed choice is not possible for me. But I can t imagine myself visiting a prostitute or a FKK before long time. This virus seems to be quite aggressive and how can I imagine having relatively safe sex knowing that this virus is able to enter my body even through my eyes, I also can t imagine not licking a woman this also may be at very high risk. On top of that, I am extremely selective and only looking for real natural beauties, young, fresh without tattoos, Botox, sili, hair extensions. And unfortunately those king of woman was very difficult to find in the FKK in the recent years. Probably with the reduced travel possibilities in Europe the LU will be poor.
Positively since I drastically reduced my FKK escapes and escort dates (from 2017) my finances are getting so munch better.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2449722]If you had a choice of ̶s̶e̶x̶ ̶w̶i̶t̶h̶ ̶m̶a̶s̶k̶ mask with sex in FKK or to wank at home without mask which would you choose?[/QUOTE]Salaam Turgid. I assume they will provide Gorilla masks and Freddy Krueger masks as these turn on the girls the most. For a lesbian theme, put on a Paris Hilton mask. As for wanking at home, nobody can see me so I would settle for a plain surgical mask. Three of them actually. One for my face, one for my dick, and one for the pickle.
Some FKKs may have striptease shows where the girl gradually peels off her face mask, showing some cheeky rouge, then her lips and maybe even a hint of tongue at the end.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2449722]If you had a choice of sex with mask in FKK or to wank at home without mask which would you choose?[/QUOTE]Just like with BBBJ law, I do what I want in room with FKK girls and all girls will agree as they agreed so far, therefore, nothing will change once FKK reopen, which is up to governments to decide when it will be open, how will not affect me once the door is closed to fuck FKK girls, it all happens behind door and I am free as pierre woodman the pride of all french men to do what I want with girl, calls her chien! Chien! And spank that ass doggy style LOL!
Chien! Chien!
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449740]WSj has an article on antigen based test, from a company called Quidel. I think it uses nose swabs. Apparently the accuracy is 85%. I don't know if it gives too many false positives or false negatives. If we are going to ramp up to 4 million tests per day in the US, which currently is less than 300 K daily, we need a new type of test. PCR is too slow but accurate. Perhaps we use Antigen test as a first round test and if it is positive then we confirm with PCR.[/QUOTE]France should have used more accurate test last December, when they began having Corona virus and did not even realized they had it LOL! Which lead to crazy war level death rates in France.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449682]Thanks for sharing your experience. I did respond to your prior comment related to DRG codes. I am not going to criticize or defend the US healthcare system which is indeed complex because we have a combination of payers (private insurance, CMS, Medicaid, exchanges involved, state regulations, health savings plans) and many other complications. If you want to effect change, you need to work inside the system. Anyone can criticize of course, but real change is hard to bring unless people work together and constructively. Entire elections hinge on discussions and changes in US healthcare systems, it is not as if we don't discuss these things internally.
But your situation is different from Polyamoritst's situation. His primary motive often appears to be take cheap shots at the US. See his most recent comment above for example where he makes a nonsensical, made up accusation that US and France funded the research behind Corona virus, and tied it to some incoherent rant about iPhone. When you also notice that he intentionally camouflages his own nationality in these pages and leads with the fake usage of Arab expressions (BFsie already said however that Polyamorist actually is a resident of DE, whether he is a citizen or not), such intentionally false accusations do nothing to promote a constructive and friendly exchange of info on an international site like ISG. Why would any person intentionally uses fake Arab persona, and incite a conflict between US, France, China in a place like this? What good comes out of it?[/QUOTE]But when people lose job, like so many millions now, or don't have full time job, they don't have healthcare insurance and can t afford to pay for healthcare, reason why Afro Americans and illegals die much more than others, they don t go to hospital, they keep on working to have money to eat. At least, in US like in Western Europe, we get figures and explanations about what happen, with US figures planned to be around 150000 deaths at the end of Summer, I dont know if they control about so many new poor people now without insurance and more than 10 millions illegals, how could they control for illegals? I thought to remember Obama tried to change about healthcare right.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2449730]Exactly, so you do believe in prostitutes in FKK,
I am professional prostitute fucker, you are professional prostitutes worshiper LOL![/QUOTE]Are you asking if he believes in prostitutes or if he believes the prostitutes. It changes the context drastically.
To be a professional prostitute fucker means you get paid to fuck them. Who is paying? I want to submit my application. I am a frequent fucker of professional prostitutes.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449740]WSj has an article on antigen based test, from a company called Quidel. I think it uses nose swabs. Apparently the accuracy is 85%. I don't know if it gives too many false positives or false negatives. If we are going to ramp up to 4 million tests per day in the US, which currently is less than 300 K daily, we need a new type of test. PCR is too slow but accurate. Perhaps we use Antigen test as a first round test and if it is positive then we confirm with PCR.[/QUOTE]UK received millions Chinese tests which were not reliable. People died in France from virus when tests made in hospitals were negative. I'm not doctor but I think to remember nose test works only when you are under infection, not much with people with no symptom who are the most numerous and can give real infection to others. I think only reliable test is on blood, but you can be infected on the day after. Like they decide in Sweden and I don't know if this is best way, but we have now to live with this killer virus even seem to slow down in Western Europe, but still strong in US poor places and growing in Brazil. Some health profiles are now at risk, they should be very careful. Same for who have beloved relatives they can give to.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2449730]Exactly, so you do believe in prostitutes in FKK, I don't, I appreciate their service, kindness and crazy dirty deep I don't believe she just did that kind of sex that I pay for, but once I am out of door, it is pay and good bye time, it just stay good memories, and I don't take them seriously. But you do even knowing all the names, past names, exact dates etc.
I think there are different type of monger, I am normal monger who seek sex in brothel, I want to fuck like crazy in brothel, you know real good sex. Siri, you seek for more than sex, you don't even get same level of sex as I do in FKK, you want relation with prostitutes, this is not my thing, but there are some mongers who want to have relation with prostitutes like you do and believe in prostitutes. I don't believe in prostitutes, I just fuck them good LOL! Unlike you LOL!
I am professional prostitute fucker, you are professional prostitutes worshiper LOL![/QUOTE]But didn't you read and understand Olga is not FKK Romanian, but Russian living in Paris since beginning of the year to try career, not classical escort on tour profile, why she is interesting, more normal woman, but exactly same behavior than FKK Romanians, and same with so many other Russian escorts I got out of agencies, for nights after work, telling about their life, really not needing to ask for, same in any place, same with Rachel GT, Sandra Sharks and wow Elena. De in Germany. When women trust, they need to speak, indeed after or before sex, to feel safe, but you need to have level for this, a bit higher and also for performance for real, not porn comedy, than Woodman style. Sex is not only to empty balls for me, I won't pay only for this, I prefer pleasure in mind, even much more difficult to get.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2449774]Some FKKs may have striptease shows where the girl gradually peels off her face mask, showing some cheeky rouge, then her lips and maybe even a hint of tongue at the end.[/QUOTE]Damn, that's hot.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2449731]As for USA, if you look at death per population, it is not too bad..[/QUOTE]That's if you trust those numbers worldwide to be accurate. Which they are not. Why try to come to any comparisons / conclusions when everyone knows those numbers are not accurate? Some countries under represent the number of deaths / cases and other countries over represent the number of deaths / cases. Most countries are not reporting all of their deaths. Even the numbers in the USA are not accurate because they push the corona virus death numbers up on purpose. The way the system is setup with the US Government funding, if a person dies of coronavirus, they get 13,000 usd free from the Government. If they are on the vent from coronavirus, they get 30,000 usd. If they die from anything else or go on the vent due to anything else, they get zero. So they are basically claiming that anyone who even possibly may have corona died of corona, which is far from the truth.
The death numbers they are posting in the US are higher than reality. Just the opposite has happened in China (obviously).
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449740]WSj has an article on antigen based test, from a company called Quidel. I think it uses nose swabs. Apparently the accuracy is 85%. I don't know if it gives too many false positives or false negatives. If we are going to ramp up to 4 million tests per day in the US, which currently is less than 300 K daily, we need a new type of test. PCR is too slow but accurate. Perhaps we use Antigen test as a first round test and if it is positive then we confirm with PCR.[/QUOTE]No offence intended, but 85% is ways to little accuracy to be used for serious testing and monitoring infections. Every false positive will feel safe, ignore rules as he is "safe", catch the virus and happily spread it until he gets serious ill and will be retested, or even worse, just have mild symptoms and become a super-spreader.
Tests with such an accuracy might be used for personal entertainment only, but have zero epidemiological value.
Just my 2 cents.
I purchased two packs of 10 filters for about 20 bucks each. You can get this all purchased at [URL]https://www.indiegogo.com[/URL].
The major bottleneck is. Shipment isn't before August!
[QUOTE=JimmyBoy99;2449633]The website says the HEPA filters in the mask are only good for 150 hours of use. If you can't replace the filters (and there is no mention of replacement filters on the website), what do you do with the mask other than throw it (and your $199) away?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2449854]I purchased two packs of 10 filters for about 20 bucks each. You can get this all purchased at [URL]https://www.indiegogo.com[/URL].
The major bottleneck is. Shipment isn't before August![/QUOTE]What for? To go to German stores which opened? Or to go for sex looking like fireman. I don t put mask to go to stores in France, this is not compulsory in France where many stores never closed, I go every week to buy foods, to buy gas because I work more than usual under virus because much more complicated conditions for my teams and I m responsible about their working safety. I often meet police at the moment for controls. Of course, no mask when I went to Olga. Ru, we didn't even talk about, when I saw her I just felt desire, I extended time just for her look and all was full GFE fluent with many real DFK, but as I often say, I'm not a example to follow, if You are not really sure to be strong health enough or if You have relatives You can infect, then better to be very careful, meaning staying away from paid sex. My advice. Restaurants and bars should also open in Germany, but brothels would be high risk for German R0 with many guys who don t look so healthy. No hurry for me, I will wait for borders opening, I think 15 May for Germany, but only 15 June for France, but I won t go to put on mask, not my libido, needing to see pretty faces.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2448841]Just like in P6 activities, in medical communities money motivates. I write this without evidence or first hand knowledge, so I will be careful with wording and punctuation. Is it true that in the US a hospital gets paid over 56 times more if a patients cause of death is ruled to be from COVID-19 rather than the flu? If the numbers are $17000 compared to $300 could this possibly motivate hospitals to find more COVID-19 deaths?[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Turgid;2449120]This can be easily verified by comparing deaths from other illnesses to those during a similar period last year.[/QUOTE]Most places are experiencing higher than normal death rates when comparing against historical averages:[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/21/world/coronavirus-missing-deaths.html[/URL].
So that might give a slightly more accurate picture. Similar to the stories of Wuhan where many mobile phone numbers suddenly fell into disuse, or more urns than normal were delivered to funeral homes.
[QUOTE=Akibono;2449726]Not practical. Imagine two plane loads of visitors. That is 500 people that need to be tested. At least 2 hrs. For a line to adminster the test and another hour at least to get the results and to clear people. In the mean time, you have 500 people in a holding pen infecting each other if 1 person tests positive. Then no one gets out. Meanwhile, more planes are arriving. What do you do about the people who test positive? The only solution is testing before boarding. At least then you know your fellow passengers will probably be clean.[/QUOTE]Wouldn't the same logistical problems exist testing at airport before boarding?
[QUOTE=Turgid;2449894]Wouldn't the same logistical problems exist testing at airport before boarding?[/QUOTE]Yes you would. Testing at an airport would be a terrible idea! The airport is no place for testing, diagnosis, vaccinations, and so on. All that sort of thing should happen at hospitals and clinics set up specifically for that purpose. You don't get your tests, shots, visas, identification, and all that stuff at the airport. Better to have all those matters squared away before you show up at the airport so that when you get there, you're cleared and ready to travel. The only thing that might be good to do would be quick temperature scans to identify who is traveling with a fever. You can do that without creating a massive jam of passengers.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2449834]That's if you trust those numbers worldwide to be accurate. Which they are not. Why try to come to any comparisons / conclusions when everyone knows those numbers are not accurate? Some countries under represent the number of deaths / cases and other countries over represent the number of deaths / cases. Most countries are not reporting all of their deaths. Even the numbers in the USA are not accurate because they push the corona virus death numbers up on purpose. The way the system is setup with the US Government funding, if a person dies of coronavirus, they get 13,000 usd free from the Government. If they are on the vent from coronavirus, they get 30,000 usd. If they die from anything else or go on the vent due to anything else, they get zero. So they are basically claiming that anyone who even possibly may have corona died of corona, which is far from the truth.
The death numbers they are posting in the US are higher than reality. Just the opposite has happened in China (obviously).[/QUOTE]US tell only 78000 deaths at the moment, with more than 1500 per day, but what about so many people without insurance and illegals, for who nobody know. On this crisis, I'm not, but if I was American, I think I would trust more Obama than Trump.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2449894]Wouldn't the same logistical problems exist testing at airport before boarding?[/QUOTE]No. You can test hours earlier and those who do not pass do not get to board. You could probably test a day earlier if you accept some risk. Plus, safer on plane if everyone is virus free.
[QUOTE=RealZoom;2449837]No offence intended, but 85% is ways to little accuracy to be used for serious testing and monitoring infections. Every false positive will feel safe, ignore rules as he is "safe", catch the virus and happily spread it until he gets serious ill and will be retested, or even worse, just have mild symptoms and become a super-spreader.
Tests with such an accuracy might be used for personal entertainment only, but have zero epidemiological value.
Just my 2 cents.[/QUOTE]None taken! In fact, I quite agree with you. But we need to scale up testing. We are doing 250,000 tests a day. All the experts are saying 5 to 10 million tests are necessary to fully reopen the economy in the US. Our current PCR test is quite accurate but too slow and it does not look like we can do 5 million PCR tests per day in the next few months. What can we do? The antigen based test is an answer. Even if the accuracy is a bit low, it enables mass scale testing.
I would much rather tests give too many false positives. If someone has been falsely diagnosed as positive, a subsequent accurate test will show he is not. Too many false negative tests is a problem because the infected people think they are clear, mingle with the rest of us and spread the virus.
BigBuddy69,
You asked me about massage a few days ago. Just let you know that all types of Massage parlors in NRW are allowed to be reopened from tomorrow (May 11), but I think you know it is illegal to offer any kind of sex service in massage parlors in Germany.
According to one poster on Rheinforum who studied new measures (see the link below), escort service will also be allowed in NRW from tomorrow although it is not clearly stated in the measures.
https://www.land.nrw/sites/default/files/asset/document/2020-05-08_fassung_coronaschvo_ab_11.05.2020_lesefassung_final_0.pdf
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2449813]But didn't you read and understand Olga is not FKK Romanian, but Russian living in Paris since beginning of the year to try career, not classical escort on tour profile, why she is interesting, more normal woman, but exactly same behavior than FKK Romanians, and same with so many other Russian escorts I got out of agencies, for nights after work, telling about their life, really not needing to ask for, same in any place, same with Rachel GT, Sandra Sharks and wow Elena. De in Germany. When women trust, they need to speak, indeed after or before sex, to feel safe, but you need to have level for this, a bit higher and also for performance for real, not porn comedy, than Woodman style. Sex is not only to empty balls for me, I won't pay only for this, I prefer pleasure in mind, even much more difficult to get.[/QUOTE]They are prostitutes Siri, you can call prostitutes to seek for some relation like you do, but generally, prostitutes are there to have sexual relation based on money, not to seek personal relation try to find out about their private information, they do not like that, it is creepy LOL.
They may tell you differently because they have to handle you as a client and very difficult and creepy one LOL. Put yourself on their shoes LOL.
I call prostitutes or go to FKK to fuck. To have personal relations I got my private life with friends to do that. I don't need prostitutes in my private lives and prostitutes don't need their clients in their private lives, they need us in their professional lives.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2449834]That's if you trust those numbers worldwide to be accurate. Which they are not. Why try to come to any comparisons / conclusions when everyone knows those numbers are not accurate? Some countries under represent the number of deaths / cases and other countries over represent the number of deaths / cases. Most countries are not reporting all of their deaths. Even the numbers in the USA are not accurate because they push the corona virus death numbers up on purpose. The way the system is setup with the US Government funding, if a person dies of coronavirus, they get 13,000 usd free from the Government. If they are on the vent from coronavirus, they get 30,000 usd. If they die from anything else or go on the vent due to anything else, they get zero. So they are basically claiming that anyone who even possibly may have corona died of corona, which is far from the truth.
The death numbers they are posting in the US are higher than reality. Just the opposite has happened in China (obviously).[/QUOTE]As for so called red team like China and Russia no, and as for emerging nations or less developed nations corona is not there yet in some of these nations and they don't have infrastructure to test them anyways.
I would say G7 nations figures for death rates are more or less accurate. As for infection rates, some nations are not doing test on everyone who ask for it to avoid cluster infection at hospitals and also to protect medical infrastructures to decrease death rates and it is saving lives that is important and not testing people who ask for it, so it is right measure.
Situation seems to be getting bit calmer for first wave, let see if there is second wave like Spanish flu, which killed more people with second wave.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2449834]That's if you trust those numbers worldwide to be accurate. Which they are not. Why try to come to any comparisons / conclusions when everyone knows those numbers are not accurate? Some countries under represent the number of deaths / cases and other countries over represent the number of deaths / cases. Most countries are not reporting all of their deaths. Even the numbers in the USA are not accurate because they push the corona virus death numbers up on purpose. The way the system is setup with the US Government funding, if a person dies of coronavirus, they get 13,000 usd free from the Government. If they are on the vent from coronavirus, they get 30,000 usd. If they die from anything else or go on the vent due to anything else, they get zero. So they are basically claiming that anyone who even possibly may have corona died of corona, which is far from the truth.
The death numbers they are posting in the US are higher than reality. Just the opposite has happened in China (obviously).[/QUOTE]This is total BS. Analysis from every single nation shows that far more people died in March and April of this year than did in prior years and only a fraction of those were classified as dying from Corona. This is happening even as deaths due to traffic accidents, gun violence, work place accidents have massively declined. All analysts and experts are saying many deaths which are due to Corona are not being classified as such because those people were never tested.
As for this excess payment for a Corona death than normal death in US hospitals -- this is a lie being propagated by people who don't have faintest fucking clue about US hospitals, DRG codes, reimbursement methods, US insurance system, interplay of CMS and private employer insurance and so many other things. Enough said.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2449711]
Given how the world is already run by a future AI that traveled back in time, we really don't have anything to say. Because it already knows what we have said. That is why Big Brother is everywhere around us. It is the Super AI needing to monitor us. Then again, that AI is probably just a software within the Matrix software we are living in also. To simulate our response to it by an even more super AI. And most 'humans' are probably just non playable characters too. Besides, science even seems to prove this (the double slit experiment and the mathematically more logical holographic universe theory). So it doesn't matter at all what you think or do. And the base reality might just have a totally different set of laws in its own Hilbert space as well, so the base Super AI (or true God) might just be fooling around for fun too.[/QUOTE]Salaam Pistons and may your herd of goats never stray from the road to Mecca. I think you discovered much of the above from the speculative text [I]Hyperion[/I] by Dan Simmons. If not, give it a read!
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449682]
But your situation is different from Polyamoritst's situation. His primary motive often appears to be take cheap shots at the US. See his most recent comment above for example where he makes a nonsensical, made up accusation that US and France funded the research behind Corona virus, and tied it to some incoherent rant about iPhone. When you also notice that he intentionally camouflages his own nationality in these pages and leads with the fake usage of Arab expressions (BFsie already said however that Polyamorist actually is a resident of DE, whether he is a citizen or not), such intentionally false accusations do nothing to promote a constructive and friendly exchange of info on an international site like ISG.[/QUOTE]I'm flattered by your attention and curiosity, Pessimist. I just wanted to assure you that I am a very open person and all you had to do was send me a PM and (as with anyone who asks) I would return my name, address, email, scan of my Caliphate Driving License, SSN, credit card number, DNA pdf and (new) Wuhan Travel Permit QR-code. My sole regret is that the rules of the forum prohibit me from putting this information in a public post, leaving people such as yourself with the impression that I have something to hide. The only thing I would ask you to share in return is the location of your jail / work unit so I may come and read to you and perhaps convert you to the True Faith.
As for the idea of residence in Germany, your research may have been a bit lacking. It seems unlikely if you look at my posting times with a magnifying glass. If you catch me dropping into Deutsch from time to time that is just a [I]Zufall[/I] due my excessive Whatsapping with Dusseldorf [I]Hobbyhuren[/I]. But why shouldn't I live over there if I wanted to? My dream would be to manage my own little kebab shop in Neukolln and head to the raves at night. I would be a shoo-in to the party scene anywhere in Germany with my dusky skin, thick accent and sexy limp acquired during the Six-Day War.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2450018]Salaam Pistons and may your herd of goats never stray from the road to Mecca. I think you discovered much of the above from the speculative text [I]Hyperion[/I] by Dan Simmons. If not, give it a read!
I'm flattered by your attention and curiosity, Pessimist. I just wanted to assure you that I am a very open person and all you had to do was send me a PM and (as with anyone who asks) I would return my name, address, email, scan of my Caliphate Driving License, SSN, credit card number, DNA pdf and (new) Wuhan Travel Permit QR-code. My sole regret is that the rules of the forum prohibit me from putting this information in a public post, leaving people such as yourself with the impression that I have something to hide. The only thing I would ask you to share in return is the location of your jail / work unit so I may come and read to you and perhaps convert you to the True Faith.
As for the idea of residence in Germany, your research may have been a bit lacking. It seems unlikely if you look at my posting times with a magnifying glass. But why shouldn't I live over there if I wanted to? My dream would be to manage my own little kebab shop in Neukolln and head to the raves at night. I would be a shoo-in to the party scene anywhere in Germany with my dusky skin, thick accent and sexy limp acquired during the Six-Day War.[/QUOTE]Sorry, Poly! Your slander that I am in prison is out of line and reflective of your own lack of class; the sarcasm in the rest of your comment is wasted. No one cares where you are from; You do give several false hints constantly with those fake Arab invocations which were funny once or twice but after a while are tiresome to most people. Be that as it may, your continual cheap shots at US are indicative that perhaps in the past this country was not nice to you, or perhaps simply you are jealous of Americans who are far more wealthy than where you may be from. I do not care what drives you or motivates you in this needless and pointless animosity to US, I simply observe that your comments are full of cheap shots and falsehoods about US, and it is obvious to any American that you pretty much have no clue about America. It would be far better if you focused on your mongering life and contributed info in that direction which is the point of ISG, and not denigrating some other country of which you are jealous.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2449834]That's if you trust those numbers worldwide to be accurate. Which they are not. Why try to come to any comparisons / conclusions when everyone knows those numbers are not accurate? Some countries under represent the number of deaths / cases and other countries over represent the number of deaths / cases. Most countries are not reporting all of their deaths. Even the numbers in the USA are not accurate because they push the corona virus death numbers up on purpose. The way the system is setup with the US Government funding, if a person dies of coronavirus, they get 13,000 usd free from the Government. If they are on the vent from coronavirus, they get 30,000 usd. If they die from anything else or go on the vent due to anything else, they get zero. So they are basically claiming that anyone who even possibly may have corona died of corona, which is far from the truth.
The death numbers they are posting in the US are higher than reality. Just the opposite has happened in China (obviously).[/QUOTE]It does not surprise me if Chinese government did this on half purpose to mess up US election, so Trump, which is Chinese enemy number one won't be elected.
I hope American voters are smart enough to figure out, republican is the last wall to stop crazy things from not happening, but going worst, so they will vote wisely.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2450029]It does not surprise me if Chinese government did this on half purpose to mess up US election, so Trump, which is Chinese enemy number one won't be elected.
I hope American voters are smart enough to figure out, republican is the last wall to stop crazy things from not happening, but going worst, so they will vote wisely.[/QUOTE]With Obama this crisis would not have been a disaster in US. Biden is not the best and I am worried about how weak can be him in facing with Republicans. Trump could win if he announces the vaccine before November.
[QUOTE=Kamsutra69;2449559]CIM won't be allowed then ... will be cure to this virus soon. Otherwise I don't see the clubs opening before that.[/QUOTE]It was, it is and it will be unnecessary to discuss any kind of features which male guests expect or are suprised to get in touch with when being in a club. Why? Nobody got a look beyond the closed door but assumptions and rumours make the round what happens and the conditions for realisation. Meanwhile it's ridiculous that traditional STD and HIV aren't anymore in the focus of board members (maybe most of the guys always have a broad-spectrum antibiotic in their pockets or stories about welllknown clubs are only fairy tales) but castles' building in the air thinking that there is a vaccine close to approval by FDA is the key for unlimited pleasure in the future??
[QUOTE=Tedesco;2450086]NRW is the hotspot for Corona since the very first beginning as e.g. carnival events worked like a splitter in several regions. But the prime minister of NRW since weeks is one of the opinion leaders arguing for more freedom especially in social life.[/QUOTE]Maybe specific small towns in NRW. Dusseldorf is the second most populous city in NRW, but seems like maybe 5-6 cities have more total cases: [URL]https://www.wz.de/nrw/fallzahlen-so-viele-coronavirus-infizierte-gibt-es-in-nrw_aid-49482175[/URL].
Total cases, Bavaria has 44 K, NRW 35 K, Baden-Wurttemberg 33 K. Per 100 K, Bavaria has 339, Baden-Wrttem*berg 300, NRW 196: [URL]https://www.rki.de/DE/Content/InfAZ/N/Neuartiges_Coronavirus/Fallzahlen.html[/URL].
Berlin is the biggest city and has the second-highest population density behind Munich, yet they only have 167 cases per 100 K. Hessen only has 144 per 100 K and it has the by far the most busiest airport. I find that surprising.
[QUOTE=Tedesco;2450089]It was, it is and it will be unnecessary to discuss any kind of features which male guests expect or are suprised to get in touch with when being in a club. Why? Nobody got a look beyond the closed door but assumptions and rumours make the round what happens and the conditions for realisation. Meanwhile it's ridiculous that traditional STD and HIV aren't anymore in the focus of board members (maybe most of the guys always have a broad-spectrum antibiotic in their pockets or stories about welllknown clubs are only fairy tales) but castles' building in the air thinking that there is a vaccine close to approval by FDA is the key for unlimited pleasure in the future??[/QUOTE]I often don't understand what I read about AO and HIV. I'm not afraid by much, I'm used to take big risks nearly weekly, I don't worry much about virus for me, I'm pretty sure virus was already in clubs on mid March when I was there, but I m afraid of HIV, because even you succeed to survive for a while, You will be weak for your life. I don't want to die like this.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2449682] (BFsie already said however that Polyamorist actually is a resident of DE, whether he is a citizen or not), [/QUOTE]Just to be clear, he used to live in Germany and I think he still lived here at the time I mentioned about his residence. I don't know where he lives now and when he left Germany if he doesn't live here anymore.
Just reading the news of frustration and protest at the speed of which Germany loosens the lockdown controls. Seems that the people want more freedoms and are willing to break havoc in their cities and risk long term detention to express their discontent with the current situation.
At the same time, the Robert Koch Institute has reported an uptick in COVID-19 cases since the lockdown restrictions began to loosen up and or since people began ignoring them.
Now in the US we are seeing a new crisis. It seems toilet paper is again available in stores and stores are now posting they will not accept returns of personal stockpiles of toilet paper. The new crisis is a meat shortage. Suddenly there is not enough refrigeration capacity to safely store the meat being processed. Farmers are having to slaughter and dispose of animals. I guess they expire on the hoof if not butchered by a certain age. In the village where I live, which has at least one bovine per human, the beef shortage has caused the price of beef hash to increase by nearly 100%, there was recently no pork, price of chicken is up 30%, eggs recently went from $4 per dozen to over $9 per dozen. Fortunately I can buy fuel for $1.74 per American gallon so I can drive to the mountains to go fishing, as long as there are no more than 3 people in a 15 ft boat and no more than 10 boats on the lake.
[QUOTE=Akibono;2449950]No. You can test hours earlier and those who do not pass do not get to board. You could probably test a day earlier if you accept some risk. Plus, safer on plane if everyone is virus free.[/QUOTE]Test a day earlier and person has whole day to be infected after being tested before flight. The choice is delay at airport before flight or delay at airport after flight. I prefer the latter.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2450018]Salaam Pistons and may your herd of goats never stray from the road to Mecca. I think you discovered much of the above from the speculative text [I]Hyperion[/I] by Dan Simmons. If not, give it a read![/QUOTE]Just too many youtube videos on technology and philosophy. From seminars and documentaries, to the average joes slapped together own ideas. And a few theories and links myself too. But I'll check out that book.
[QUOTE=Bfsie;2450113]Just to be clear, he used to live in Germany and I think he still lived here at the time I mentioned about his residence. I don't know where he lives now and when he left Germany if he doesn't live here anymore.[/QUOTE]Thank you Bfsie. Sorry, I did and't mean to drag you into this squabble, my apologies to you. I really have no interest to know who lives where and why -- I am not disclosing my city and state either, although my country of residence has been obvious. My only point is that when someone intentionally camouflages their residence and origin using obviously fake expressions as a ruse, they should not be posting continual derogatory comments on other countries in a forum dedicated to international sex mongers. Let us respect all nations and nationalities and let us not throw stones at each other. Thank you.
We are all aware of the risks we take by visiting brothels and engaging escorts. Many of us also take a lot of precautions. I have never ever not used a cover. Plus the demand for a thorough cleaning before and after.
But even then it's a risky business precisely because not everyone adheres to these standards. So, the regular check ups for HIV & STD. Would we take similar risks vis-a-vis corona going forward? I have no doubt that we will.
[QUOTE=Tedesco;2450089]It was, it is and it will be unnecessary to discuss any kind of features which male guests expect or are suprised to get in touch with when being in a club. Why? Nobody got a look beyond the closed door but assumptions and rumours make the round what happens and the conditions for realisation. Meanwhile it's ridiculous that traditional STD and HIV aren't anymore in the focus of board members (maybe most of the guys always have a broad-spectrum antibiotic in their pockets or stories about welllknown clubs are only fairy tales) but castles' building in the air thinking that there is a vaccine close to approval by FDA is the key for unlimited pleasure in the future??[/QUOTE]
Russia's national death toll from coronavirus could be 70 per cent higher than the government's official data show, as the Kremlin struggles to curb the spread of Covid-19 despite a seven-week long lockdown.
The Financial Times' analysis of all-cause mortality data in Moscow, the capital, and St Petersburg, Russia's second-largest city, found 2,073 more deaths in April*relative to the historical average of the previous five years.
Official Covid deaths in the two cities came to just 629 for the same period, leaving 1,444 deaths in excess of normal mortality levels unaccounted for. If added to the reported national figure of 2,009 Covid deaths as of Monday morning, this would mean a 72 per cent increase in Russia's national death*toll.
Russia has made it illegal to publish or discuss "fake news" about the pandemic in the country, a decision that critics say could be used to muzzle independent media reports that contradict the government's official statements.
President Vladimir Putin has repeatedly told citizens that the pandemic is "under control",*despite claims from a doctors' association linked to opposition activists that the government has covered up the scale of the medical crisis.
Read more in the article below.
FT, WSJ, and other media have had such articles about country after country. This pattern - - - that death toll in March and April, is significantly higher than the average of prior 3 or 5 years - - - is happening in so many countries.
[URL]https://www.ft.com/content/77cd2cba-b0e2-4022-a265-e0a9a7930bda[/URL]
Even you will use 1000 I am afraid it will not be enough, how will you avoid some virus that are in her hair to enter your body through your eyes? For me visiting prostitutes in the coming months will be at high risk, but each of us can decide about his own life, for sure the girls will return to P6 as soon as possible but we mongers have the choice, my choice is not before the situation is safe.
It is not just Russia either.
Here is an article about US:
[URL]https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/11/cdc-finds-additional-5000-nyc-deaths-possibly-linked-to-coronavirus.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/official-u-s-coronavirus-death-toll-may-be-missing-many-n1201441[/URL]
"USA Health officials have identified 5,000 fatalities in New York City between March and early May that may have been caused by Covid-19 but weren't counted as part of the official coronavirus death toll, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said Monday.
New York City health officials reported 18,879 total Covid-19 deaths between March 11 and May 2, — 13,831 of which were confirmed by a lab and 5,048 of which were categorized as probable cases based on the patients' symptoms and other factors, according to a new CDC report.
There were an additional 5,293 deaths that weren't previously identified as confirmed or probable coronavirus cases that "might have been directly or indirectly attributable to the pandemic," the CDC said.
The number of confirmed or probable Covid-19 deaths might not include deaths among people with the virus "who did not access diagnostic testing, tested falsely negative, or became infected after testing negative, died outside of a health care setting, or for whom Covid-19 was not suspected by a health care provider as a cause of death," the CDC wrote."
The above was in NY state alone.
[URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/07/uk/coronavirus-uk-deaths-intl-gbr/index.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.wired.co.uk/article/coronavirus-uk-death-toll-numbers[/URL]
This Wired articlee said UK death toll is significantly understated.
"The UK's daily death toll updates for Covid-19 could be underreporting the true number by a significant margin, according to government numbers published Tuesday.
In its daily tally of deaths, UK government counts only people who tested positive and then died of the virus in hospital. But that doesn't match the number of UK death certificates that list COVID-19 as a factor.
On Tuesday, figures released by the UK's Office of National Statistics (ONS), showed that the 1,568 people had Covid-19 listed on their death certificates between March 5, when the first death was reported, and March 27.
In contrast, death tolls released by Public Health England over the same period show only 926 confirmed deaths due to the virus in England."
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/italys-coronavirus-death-toll-is-far-higher-than-reported-11585767179[/URL]
This WSJ article said Italy death toll was much higher than official count. Here is a snippet:
"In and around those two towns, the real number of deaths is probably at least double the official count of 2,060 in March for Bergamo and 1,278 for Brescia since the outbreak began in late February, according to interviews with local officials, doctors and funeral-service providers and comparisons with the numbers of deaths from past years.
People are also dying of other ailments because hospitals are too overloaded with coronavirus cases to give them the treatment they need, doctors and local officials say.
Some 85 people died in the whole of last year in Coccaglio, a town near Brescia of 8,700 residents. In March of this year alone, the town's main church bell has sounded the death knell 56 times. Only 12 of the deaths were officially attributed to the coronavirus."
We can do this country after country.
So what is? Over reported or under reported? Many are dying. Maybe you don't know any of them, or anybody who knows any of them. Many are dying of Covid19. The entire world is reporting. What we do know is that after the incubation time in places opening despite the infection and death rate increasing the shit could hit the fan or as The Stable Genius predicts " it will go away even without a vaccine" Today is day three after opening in the great state of Texas. You don't see Pence with the "15 day" postcard anymore. He's in quarantine. Robert F. Kennedy wrote the forward to a book by a debunked anti-vaccination PhD. Her video is on a site featuring Proud Boys and Alex Jones.
[QUOTE=TeaInTheSun;2450061]With Obama this crisis would not have been a disaster in US. Biden is not the best and I am worried about how weak can be him in facing with Republicans. Trump could win if he announces the vaccine before November.[/QUOTE]USA should always be run by Republicans for stability of the world.
Obama looked good and great speech reading ability, but that's surface, he was worst president of all.
As for Trump, who like how he talk or his behavior or phenomenon he spread, it is not nice thing to hear, but he is one of the greatest president in American history and world, he changed things much more than Obama, some for worst, some for good, but moving forward is important and Trump is poison to kill poison. He has his own agenda, but poison like him is required once in awhile to change things in politic.
However, Trump is acting really bad sadly for Corona virus pandemic. He is old guy in his 70's, so it would be wise if he takes some precaution because if he get infected, imagine the damage it cause to economy and other areas.
Also Mike pence. Mike Pence is one of the politician who was behind bringing Toyota and Honda to USA, specifically to Indiana state creating millions of jobs and billion of US dollars to state, but with corona, I don't know why he was acting the way like he was acting like with mask, he kept on working taking measures, visiting place and now he is in place of possible infection and many others in White House. He is smart guy, but when it comes to corona, he begin to talk about religion as he supposed to be very religious guy.
All in all, USA is doing not that bad. USA is big nation, what is important is not death rate itself, but death per population and USA is doing better than Europe. It is France, Italy and Spain that is worrisome. France has Corona already in December and there are even some report since October and they did not even realize it. It is always their arrogance who fire back at them, they still live in glory of 19th century and only Germany is strong enough nation to stand alone in EU, but Germany takes full advantage of their strength and control EU for their own benefit, that actually is against ideology of EU.
Well, summer is best time in FKK, but this year, I have to skip for my own sake even if it reopen, I am glad I went to FKK in end of Jan. And early Feb., so I did it already this year, but question is should I use escort here if I find stunner Eurasian here. The risk is much less than FKK, but it is there, though risks are always there for all. I must think about this. Maybe in summer when virus may become less strong to contract. To be or not to be, that is the question even for monger LOL!
[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2450233]So what is? Over reported or under reported? Many are dying. Maybe you don't know any of them, or anybody who knows any of them. Many are dying of Covid19. The entire world is reporting. What we do know is that after the incubation time in places opening despite the infection and death rate increasing the shit could hit the fan or as The Stable Genius predicts " it will go away even without a vaccine" Today is day three after opening in the great state of Texas. You don't see Pence with the "15 day" postcard anymore. He's in quarantine. Robert F. Kennedy wrote the forward to a book by a debunked anti-vaccination PhD. Her video is on a site featuring Proud Boys and Alex Jones.[/QUOTE]Not especially many under 50 are dying. This is just a early end for the old (that would die soon anyways) and weak. I continue my life almost as normal.
[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2450233]So what is? Over reported or under reported? Many are dying. Maybe you don't know any of them, or anybody who knows any of them. Many are dying of Covid19. The entire world is reporting. What we do know is that after the incubation time in places opening despite the infection and death rate increasing the shit could hit the fan or as The Stable Genius predicts " it will go away even without a vaccine" Today is day three after opening in the great state of Texas. You don't see Pence with the "15 day" postcard anymore. He's in quarantine. Robert F. Kennedy wrote the forward to a book by a debunked anti-vaccination PhD. Her video is on a site featuring Proud Boys and Alex Jones.[/QUOTE]Don't worry, it is all OK, China will buy whole Europe for bottom price like China is buying up rock bottom priced Brent oil, China will FKK prostitute whole Europe LOL!
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2450194]Even you will use 1000 I am afraid it will not be enough, how will you avoid some virus that are in her hair to enter your body through your eyes? For me visiting prostitutes in the coming months will be at high risk, but each of us can decide about his own life, for sure the girls will return to P6 as soon as possible but we mongers have the choice, my choice is not before the situation is safe.[/QUOTE]Well with your theory we cannot even go to super market then.
If you want to take precaution, don't monger for awhile till this corona virus thing is over or vaccines are invented.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2450148] Sorry, I did and't mean to drag you into this squabble, my apologies to you. [/QUOTE]No problem.
[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2450233]So what is? Over reported or under reported? Many are dying. Maybe you don't know any of them, or anybody who knows any of them. Many are dying of Covid19. The entire world is reporting. What we do know is that after the incubation time in places opening despite the infection and death rate increasing the shit could hit the fan or as The Stable Genius predicts " it will go away even without a vaccine" Today is day three after opening in the great state of Texas. You don't see Pence with the "15 day" postcard anymore. He's in quarantine. Robert F. Kennedy wrote the forward to a book by a debunked anti-vaccination PhD. Her video is on a site featuring Proud Boys and Alex Jones.[/QUOTE]People are dying! Run! Hide!
It seems you in favor of shutting the world down in fear from this virus and hiding in the corner wearing masks until we all die of poverty waiting for a vaccine.
In my opinion, Sweden did it right. These lockdowns are absurd. I say the world should open up immediately and use the Sweden model.
But if you have a better solution, I would love to hear it.
The virus is still raging over Europe and the world, and even though in some places is clearly slowing down we don't really know when all this will be over. Maybe next year with the right vaccine, maybe in summer if the virus will mutate in a less dangerous flu, or maybe it's something that will go on for years. Fact is that we live in a diffent world now, and we don't know yet the whole impact that it will have in our lives.
I say that because in these days of quarantine I have different thoughts.
I miss my mongering trips, every day I recall my nights in my favourite red lights districts and how exciting was spending the night going through all the brothels. I really miss those times and I realize they were part of my freedom. But then I think back on how it worked: of course I took precautions, but still it was me walking naked in dirty rooms, not thinking where I put my clothes, if the bed was clean (most of the times low and purple lights don't let you see that), and what happened just before me to the girl I was touching. And there are those times when you loose control and start to lick and touch where you shouldn't.
So. Will I be able to do that again when all will be open? Or the fear is going to stop me, making me unable to enjoy a beautiful girl?
Fun sex always comes with some recklessness, and even if most of the brothels will be able to reopen again (nad I doubt that), fun won't be like before I fear.
All this depend on how much you are willing to risk on your health. COVID 19 looks to be very aggressive, and therefor is able to survive even several days on metallic parts. The girls will not be able to be virus free even they take a shower after each customer, they will never wash their hair 10 times a day or make up 10 times a day. Probably the girls and mongers who will restart their activity will be those who have nothing to loose so also the less careful one, for the girls money is over everything and for the guys sex is over everything.
I will stay out of the P6 scene for long time for sure, going to a prostitute, without licking, being afraid to get sick mat any moment. Probably the service will be also not the top, LU depressed, better to safe the money for better times.
This Virus is a killer, and far more difficult to protect against it compared to HIV.
[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2450233]So what is? Over reported or under reported? Many are dying. Maybe you don't know any of them, or anybody who knows any of them. Many are dying of Covid19. The entire world is reporting. What we do know is that after the incubation time in places opening despite the infection and death rate increasing the shit could hit the fan or as The Stable Genius predicts " it will go away even without a vaccine" Today is day three after opening in the great state of Texas. You don't see Pence with the "15 day" postcard anymore. He's in quarantine. Robert F. Kennedy wrote the forward to a book by a debunked anti-vaccination PhD. Her video is on a site featuring Proud Boys and Alex Jones.[/QUOTE]So you clearly haven't studied communication and media.
Just using the words like 'debunked', 'fake news', fact-checkers', 'Alex Jones', 'conspiracy theory', 'flat earthers', 'proud boys' and 'great state' are all nothing but no-use framing terms with zero meaning to them. And as the flat earth theory was started as a funny joke and later abused for propaganda against other conspiracy theories in the wake of Snowden and Assange, to smear the entire Anonymous movement, half the other words on your list are also a part of that campaign. And people like Michael Moore who was paid out, and later Alex Jones, who is also paid out in order to make every truther into a crazy joke are nothing but diversions. Fact-checkers are always subjective, and so is fake news. A conspiracy theory is the life of an investigative cop 24 hours a day, 356 days a year, but the framing is different, and the society depends on it. News media used to have the same societal function, but in the past 20 years Google, Facebook and others have changed the global media market so much that 99% of journalists have sold their soul to the devils known as PR companies.
OK, that was lecture 101.
But whatever. There is a reason they call it 'herd immunity' when the SHEEP all injects mercury and other poisons into their bodies. Even doctors are brainwashed by university curriculum taught to them at school. Forced upon the institution by named PR companies working for the devil. The old might dollar.
And that was lecture 102.
[QUOTE=TeaInTheSun;2450061]With Obama this crisis would not have been a disaster in US. Biden is not the best and I am worried about how weak can be him in facing with Republicans. Trump could win if he announces the vaccine before November.[/QUOTE]Didn't Obama try to change about healthcare? I'm not American, I may be stupid, but I can't understand about Trump, Reagan before, compare to Obama and furthermore for image of cleverness. Just from Europe of course, but Trump is a worry for us, when we don't laugh.
[QUOTE=Smoothy;2450382]People are dying! Run! Hide!
It seems you in favor of shutting the world down in fear from this virus and hiding in the corner wearing masks until we all die of poverty waiting for a vaccine.
In my opinion, Sweden did it right. These lockdowns are absurd. I say the world should open up immediately and use the Sweden model.
But if you have a better solution, I would love to hear it.[/QUOTE]I was amazed 90% of Swedish didn't go on Easter holidays when no confined and they were allowed, when French thought they were on holidays when confined start, they wanted to move in other more quiet places in France and move virus with them, so government forbid moving for holidays, so most took holidays for nearly 2 months being paid 84% , but staying at home. Virus figures are much more about society behavior than medical level, when Africa manage quite well. Like Americans, French want to go to the beach now and in US or France, when sea is 2 meters depth, really not many to swim.
Under-reported. Every nation has a huge incentive to do so. Nobody wants to be the outlier where most people (per 100 K inhabitants) died.
[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2450233]So what is? Over reported or under reported? Many are dying. Maybe you don't know any of them, or anybody who knows any of them. Many are dying of Covid19. The entire world is reporting. What we do know is that after the incubation time in places opening despite the infection and death rate increasing the shit could hit the fan or as The Stable Genius predicts " it will go away even without a vaccine" Today is day three after opening in the great state of Texas. You don't see Pence with the "15 day" postcard anymore. He's in quarantine. Robert F. Kennedy wrote the forward to a book by a debunked anti-vaccination PhD. Her video is on a site featuring Proud Boys and Alex Jones.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MrHo;2450267]USA should always be run by Republicans for stability of the world.
Obama looked good and great speech reading ability, but that's surface, he was worst president of all.
As for Trump, who like how he talk or his behavior or phenomenon he spread, it is not nice thing to hear, but he is one of the greatest president in American history and world, he changed things much more than Obama, some for worst, some for good, but moving forward is important and Trump is poison to kill poison. He has his own agenda, but poison like him is required once in awhile to change things in politic.
However, Trump is acting really bad sadly for Corona virus pandemic. He is old guy in his 70's, so it would be wise if he takes some precaution because if he get infected, imagine the damage it cause to economy and other areas.
Also Mike pence. Mike Pence is one of the politician who was behind bringing Toyota and Honda to USA, specifically to Indiana state creating millions of jobs and billion of US dollars to state, but with corona, I don't know why he was acting the way like he was acting like with mask, he kept on working taking measures, visiting place and now he is in place of possible infection and many others in White House. He is smart guy, but when it comes to corona, he begin to talk about religion as he supposed to be very religious guy.[/QUOTE]Italy is doing well especially in the south.
The predicted nightmare don't happened.
Maybe for the sun connected to vitamin D.
Maybe the population more sparse.
Maybe less pollution.
The fucker and. 1 in Lombardia was a runner.
Cvirus when you ran don't stop in the mouth and go direct to pulmonary.
Fucker and. 1 attended a various runnings with severs hundred people.
[QUOTE=Tropea317;2450473]Italy is doing well especially in the south.
The predicted nightmare don't happened.
Maybe for the sun connected to vitamin D.
Maybe the population more sparse.
Maybe less pollution.
The fucker and. 1 in Lombardia was a runner.
Cvirus when you ran don't stop in the mouth and go direct to pulmonary.
Fucker and. 1 attended a various runnings with severs hundred people.[/QUOTE]Italy dig their own grave when they took easy Chinese money, there is reason why China is not in G7, which just by number they can be easily in G7 as ranked number three in G7 after USA and Japan, but they are not in.
What important after or even during corona is solidarity of G7 nations, high ranked official and high rank citizen knows the importance of it, but problem is working classes and below who do not understand importance of it, which lead to many disasters in various areas of society and world. At least top 2 G7 nations namely Japan and USA are totally together as allies, I hope other nations will give more understanding to US global policies.
Meanwhile China is making many moves, illegal insurgent into south China sea, buying up rock bottom brent oil, and soon they will buy weaken Europe at rock bottom price like buying Romanian prostitutes. EU is taking measures, which is good thing because beside Germany, no EU nations are economically strong enough to stand against China, unfortunately.
Yes, corona virus is a killer but better to understand figures than panic or saying bullshits without knowing anything about countries. Many old people in Italy, 80% of deaths are more than 70 yo in France. Western Europe level of life make you live older and older but then many people are weak when disease like this new virus for Western world. Among less than 70 yo who died in France, 67% had diseases making weak versus virus, meaning less than 7% of deaths didn't think they had health problem which don t mean they didn't have, when many fat think they don t have health problem, but their heart can t work well in fat, and when heart is not efficient, usually some organs won't be so strong. On the other hand, most of infected people and children, don't even know they are infected, virus is even less strong than flu or grippe for them, and they are the most dangerous because without knowing, they can give to many, this is R0. Most of infected children were by parents who didn't know they were infected, when which parents would want to infect own children. People run after mask because they are afraid of virus, but except for weak healthy people and health staff, mask are more not to give to others than to protect us, had been one of Italian problems when it started in Italy, in North, but nobody knew back then. Because of confined which is said to have saved more than 60 000 life, only about 6% french were infected and most of them didn't even know, so if You are really healthy, always better to know about own level for everything, then no reason to panic, but if You have relatives: wife, children, old mother, better to be careful for them, and for sure brothels are real playfield for virus. I think quite impossible no virus when they will reopen. But virus show a lot about behavior in countries: Germans and Swedish respect way of life rules, they manage not so bad. Poverty kill in US and France even different cases and in both, some don t respect confined. Really good surprise is so poor with very average medical level Africa, even they have less old people who already died from other previous diseases, but I also think they have better quality for health foods when they have, than Western Europe and US where we are making weak health our children with so bad new US fast foods for health. Better to be a lonely iron healthy to take risk for brothels which may be R05, new Chinese roulette to play.
Few days ago the municipal give in an envelope one mask prechina value 50 eurocent now go up like novavax yesterday, BTW I have Moderna.
That for my mother aged more than 75 years.
Now the government tell pharmacy you have to sell at 50 eurocent plus vat.
But the pharmacy sell at 2,50 euros so this fucker now say we don't have mask.
So no this fucking stupid mask.
Giovanna come back.
I was almost sure she never come back.
She must in be in love with bologna.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2450561]Yes, corona virus is a killer but better to understand figures than panic or saying bullshits without knowing anything about countries. Many old people in Italy, 80% of deaths are more than 70 yo in France. Western Europe level of life make you live older and older but then many people are weak when disease like this new virus for Western world. Among less than 70 yo who died in France, 67% had diseases making weak versus virus, meaning less than 7% of deaths didn't think they had health problem which don t mean they didn't have, when many fat think they don t have health problem, but their heart can t work well in fat, and when heart is not efficient, usually some organs won't be so strong. On the other hand, most of infected people and children, don't even know they are infected, virus is even less strong than flu or grippe for them, and they are the most dangerous because without knowing, they can give to many, this is R0. Most of infected children were by parents who didn't know they were infected, when which parents would want to infect own children. People run after mask because they are afraid of virus, but except for weak healthy people and health staff, mask are more not to give to others than to protect us, had been one of Italian problems when it started in Italy, in North, but nobody knew back then. Because of confined which is said to have saved more than 60 000 life, only about 6% french were infected and most of them didn't even know, so if You are really healthy, always better to know about own level for everything, then no reason to panic, but if You have relatives: wife, children, old mother, better to be careful for them, and for sure brothels are real playfield for virus. I think quite impossible no virus when they will reopen..[/QUOTE]Some European nations including France panicked, that is why this crazy high death rates happened, they did not need to die if you did not panicked. France did not even know when they already had corona virus last December and when they finally realized they had it, France panicked, which lead to this war level death rates and increasing.
It is not just because of just old age and fat people, not all people who passed away in France are old, fat, obesity etc as you like to believe. Many are also young too. It is because you panicked and lost control of the situation and let medical system destroyed, so nothing was functioning to the extent you did not even had enough medical equipment to save life and had to choose who get life support system etc.
It is very France, you do not even know what failed nor admit about it to make improvement.
So, currently, the situation is, I think:
1. Austria -- FKKs might open on 1st July.
2. Switzerland -- on Aug. 31st?
3. Germany?
Also, when will the EU open up travel to it for non-essential purposes (currently EU citizens can come for some specific reasons only; tourism is not one of these yet!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2450745]Some European nations including France panicked, that is why this crazy high death rates happened, they did not need to die if you did not panicked. [/QUOTE]Honestly, I'm very confused by your statements on panic causing higher death rates. These are very general and obscure statements with very little if any scientific fact presented to even remotely support your hypothesis. As a non-scientist myself, I can only ask questions and hope you can answer with some facts, since you seem to draw hard conclusions.
As I understand, France and many other European nations implemented quarantines similar to what was done in much of the world. This negatively impacted economies but I'm not sure of the balance on profits vs loss of life. Also, it seems company directors, brokers, senior staff might be afforded a higher level of protection while their workers would be subjected to the daily grind and exposure to the virus, in turn possibly higher death rates in lower income groups. This is what we see in the US, although there have been a few high profile deaths from the entertainment industry. My opinion, the entertainment industry deaths from COVID seem on par with the drug and alcohol deaths. In this thought, are you stating in fact that reducing population movement and person to person contact caused an increase in COVID deaths?
I believe France and many other European nations responded with increased testing and contact tracking of people presenting with COVID symptoms. Is this a part of the panic? Are you saying that finding infected people, isolating them until they tested negative, finding those whom they had contact with and isolating them until they tested positive caused more deaths? In my opinion it may have identified those who died as a result of COVID contributing complications, causing a recognized increase of COVID deaths.
I believe France, and you get it by now, found hospital staffs over tasked and understocked on PPE and certain medical equipment. Organizations such as Formula One banned together with their top engineers to design, manufacture or repurpose existing equipment for alternate uses to treat those with extreme COVID complications. Is this an example of panic that cost additional lives to be lost?
As far as Life Expectancy, Japan seems to outpace France by about 2 years in 2019,84 years compared to 82 years. I don't have time to research other health issues within the societies to compare who is fattest, has most diabetes, heart disease, etc. As I said before, we are all stuck on this rock floating in space. Unless you are one of the elite that are chosen for space exploration, you or your descendants, relatives, countrymen, etc. Will be here to deal with this together. Everyone can claim their culture saved the world but a long term look at history will prove that it will be multi national multi cultural efforts that get us through this and the next crisis that will come, until we are extinct or move off from Earth.
WHO now says COVID-19 might never go away. Disturbing? Yes, but let's put this into perspective.
Smallpox used to kill 4 million people a month. Translated to today's world population that would be 16 million a month. The disease could be transmitted by kissing as well as other types of contact.
The Wu-Flu will continue to kill 100-200 K people a month worldwide. Unlike smallpox, most of them will be over 70.
When people learnt about smallpox, did they stop having sex? Did they stop going into work? No, they learnt to accept it as one of the risks of life, until a vaccine was developed.
These days we are wusses.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2450884]The Wu-Flu will continue to kill 100-200 K people a month worldwide. Unlike smallpox, most of them will be over 70. When people learnt about smallpox, did they stop having sex? Did they stop going into work? No, they learnt to accept it as one of the risks of life, until a vaccine was developed. These days we are wusses.[/QUOTE]OK, you go first then! Hahaha!
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2450880]As far as Life Expectancy, Japan seems to outpace France by about 2 years in 2019,84 years compared to 82 years.[/QUOTE]The two oldest populations have had two different medical outcomes, and I think it can be mostly be explained by culture. Many Italians visit their ageing parents more than once a week (or live under the same roof as them). Japanese are not connected in this way. Since end of WWII, Japan's single-minded focus on rapid economic growth has eroded family ties and social connections.
[QUOTE]https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/world/asia/japan-lonely-deaths-the-end.html
"The extreme isolation of elderly Japanese is so common that an entire industry has emerged around it, specializing in cleaning out apartments where decomposing remains are found."
[/QUOTE][QUOTE]https://thediplomat.com/2020/05/the-trouble-with-linking-covid-19-to-japans-hikikomori/
"The number of hikikomori (social recluses) in Japan has been disputed, ranging from the governments estimate of 1.15 million for individuals aged 15-64 to estimates of 2 million by experts such as Tamaki Saito, a leading psychiatrist on the hikikomori issue. The reasons for becoming a hikikomori are also debated, but it is typically considered a culture-bound syndrome associated with Japans rigid social structure, where conformity is normalized through peer pressure and shame. Thus, social withdrawal is an involuntary escape from the perceived hostility of the outside world."[/QUOTE][QUOTE]
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Science/Japan-s-coronavirus-response-is-flawed-but-it-works
"The Japan model also incorporates a "3 C's" concept. This requires the population to avoid closed spaces with poor ventilation; crowded places; and close-contact settings. It also builds on traditional Japanese behavior patterns and etiquette, such as wearing face masks, and little communal physical contact such as shaking hands or cheek kissing. Animated, loud conversations on packed commuter trains are considered impolite, and avoiding them minimizes infective droplet spray."[/QUOTE]
How many of you will be in the clubs today and partaking sex if something like Oase was at full capacity. Girls and guys both? Assume that Corona situation is just as it is today, still a risk.
I am not in the clubs today not only because they are shut but also because the risk is not acceptable to me. I am getting the sense that many of you don't mind being in the club today if it was open. For example, I do have at least a handful of new and existing sugar babes quite eager to see me (for my money of course) but I am staying away. I assume at least some guys around here will bang a sugar babe as they think the risk is not excessive.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2450884]WHO now says COVID-19 might never go away. Disturbing? Yes, but let's put this into perspective.
Smallpox used to kill 4 million people a month. Translated to today's world population that would be 16 million a month. The disease could be transmitted by kissing as well as other types of contact.
The Wu-Flu will continue to kill 100-200 K people a month worldwide. Unlike smallpox, most of them will be over 70.
When people learnt about smallpox, did they stop having sex? Did they stop going into work? No, they learnt to accept it as one of the risks of life, until a vaccine was developed.
These days we are wusses.[/QUOTE]As I kept on saying from beginning, it is at war level death rates.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2450880]Honestly, I'm very confused by your statements on panic causing higher death rates. These are very general and obscure statements with very little if any scientific fact presented to even remotely support your hypothesis. As a non-scientist myself, I can only ask questions and hope you can answer with some facts, since you seem to draw hard conclusions.
As I understand, France and many other European nations implemented quarantines similar to what was done in much of the world. This negatively impacted economies but I'm not sure of the balance on profits vs loss of life. Also, it seems company directors, brokers, senior staff might be afforded a higher level of protection while their workers would be subjected to the daily grind and exposure to the virus, in turn possibly higher death rates in lower income groups. This is what we see in the US, although there have been a few high profile deaths from the entertainment industry. My opinion, the entertainment industry deaths from COVID seem on par with the drug and alcohol deaths. In this thought, are you stating in fact that reducing population movement and person to person contact caused an increase in COVID deaths?
I believe France and many other European nations responded with increased testing and contact tracking of people presenting with COVID symptoms..[/QUOTE]Don't be confused, it is all based on death rates, so by numbers and that is what important, to save lives. And unfortunately, due to their lack of management of the situation, France, Italy and Spain failed to do that miserably.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2450970]The two oldest populations have had two different medical outcomes, and I think it can be mostly be explained by culture. Many Italians visit their ageing parents more than once a week (or live under the same roof as them). Japanese are not connected in this way. Since end of WWII, Japan's single-minded focus on rapid economic growth has eroded family ties and social connections.[/QUOTE]Not for all, but for some, the good thing is that Japan managed well from 1945 and 1980 Japan is top, then came second in 1990's and now third after China. The result was delivered.
As for hikikomori etc. You are too intrigued by mass media, it is only minority of population and this is in fact problem for many nations too like many Italian not leaving their mama's home even at middle age partly due to economical situation as well, but I do think living same roof as parent is good thing as long as house is big enough to have privacy. Your mass media brain is in same level as Japan still have ninja and that is why Japan has such a success companies like Toyota, Honda, Sony, Omron, Panasonic, Toshiba, honestly I can keep goes on with few hundred names that are global company that is even almost big as some European nation as single mega company LOL.
Not all nations can be perfect, but China is dangerous nation with communist government. I even suspect they did this virus thing on purpose to some extent to mess up US election because Donald Trump regime cost China not just billions, but trillions of losses every single year his regime is in power in USA. I hope US will be smart enough to vote for republican even though they may find Trump annoying. Vote for his regime, not him.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2450970]The two oldest populations have had two different medical outcomes, and I think it can be mostly be explained by culture. Many Italians visit their ageing parents more than once a week (or live under the same roof as them). Japanese are not connected in this way. Since end of WWII, Japan's single-minded focus on rapid economic growth has eroded family ties and social connections.[/QUOTE]Yes, Italians, also Spanish often live with old parents. French kiss to say Hello. When international flights will start again, rather than driving to FKK, I will fly for a week end to Japan and will kiss everybody I see there, I think there will be a little problem, maybe only girls will be happy, and maybe will find a traditional geisha, I wonder if they kiss.
1 day after end of confined, prostitutes without mask were back in streets, exactly at same place than 2 months ago, like Emily and Ana who returned to home Velbert. Were always escorts under confined. Yesterday, Olga was not really free on my time, she proposed me to come to her private place in evening, but then she became less interesting. Let s see for next time as I sent her.
Comparing Western Europe and Asia don t mean anything, we are so different. Southern Europe, Spanish, Italians and some French are so different than Northern Europeans. What work in Sweden, with people not going on Easter holidays when it was not forbidden, when French thought confined was going on holidays close to the beach.
This killer virus showed a real mirror of society, for black and poor in US, like Brunswick Georgia and sleeping justice for 2 months until video on internet, well organized Germany where restaurants should open soon but with 1,5 meter distance, it will be complicated to respect in brothels and in bed. Greece and Portugal have better figures than Germany, when I would never go to these countries if I was sick and many Portuguese come to France for much higher healthcare. Africa manage not so bad and I m very happy for them, they have enough other diseases.
As a French, despite we are around 35 000 deaths for real figures with people doctors were right to let die quietly at home in their bed with their family, when too old or too weak, but I know what great and difficult job made medical staff and especially nurses who were sometimes insulted by some crazy asking them to stay away not to throw them virus. One owner asked a nurse who rent his flat, to leave. If I was Macron, I put a law during night as politics know how to do to prosecute owner and to give flat to the nurse who takes risk to save life and only with small earning at the end of the month. I would also put a night law about french Sanofi. From wherever they got money for research, but production stay in France without allowance to be sent to US who already paid more expensive to have masks before others. When one here, who have among most clever writings, wrote about same rights for everybody, just a dream, I m a dreamer, I need to dream, but I don t believe anymore about this. Virus showed so well how it killed and will keep on much more poor than rich. US who are down under with virus when not respecting confined, think they deserve vaccine before the others in the world, like for masks when Trump woke up on March. But Sanofi is French and in France and they will have a big problem with French people. When Japan is afraid of China, French are not afraid of US nor China. But I think French would thank Germany, Switzerland, Luxemburg and Austria for 181 beds, I think none moved when they were a bit better died abroad, to free and never miss beds for worst cases. With their help, never missed beds.
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2450855]So, currently, the situation is, I think:
1. Austria -- FKKs might open on 1st July.
2. Switzerland -- on Aug. 31st?
3. Germany?
Also, when will the EU open up travel to it for non-essential purposes (currently EU citizens can come for some specific reasons only; tourism is not one of these yet![/QUOTE]I think main point is not when they will open. The most important thing is when we will have a service more similar to what we had before lockdown. What pleasure we will find in having a pretty girl with her face covered or if she provides us a HJ with gloves? Everything is very risky now if we take the virus at home. We have to wait for the vaccine or until the virus loses power or spreads very sporadically.
I caught athlete's foot in a club once. I then find out they don't have Lotramin Ultra in Germany. But they have terbenefine so that was about one level weaker than the butenefine ingredient in Lotramin Ultra. But they don't have pseudaphedrine (best treatment for respiratory infections of nose congestion) on the Continent. Closest place that is available in London. But I really don't know how Germans and others on Continental Europe get by without Sudafed. I think with enough Kleenex and Sudafed pretty much any cold or flu is bearable. But then some Zithromax to prevent bacterial infections. It could be the cold humid climate is making it worse for them as it is in New York City.
[QUOTE=MysticalGun;2450411]The virus is still raging over Europe and the world, and even though in some places is clearly slowing down we don't really know when all this will be over. Maybe next year with the right vaccine, maybe in summer if the virus will mutate in a less dangerous flu, or maybe it's something that will go on for years. Fact is that we live in a diffent world now, and we don't know yet the whole impact that it will have in our lives.
I say that because in these days of quarantine I have different thoughts.
I miss my mongering trips, every day I recall my nights in my favourite red lights districts and how exciting was spending the night going through all the brothels. I really miss those times and I realize they were part of my freedom. But then I think back on how it worked: of course I took precautions, but still it was me walking naked in dirty rooms, not thinking where I put my clothes, if the bed was clean (most of the times low and purple lights don't let you see that), and what happened just before me to the girl I was touching. And there are those times when you loose control and start to lick and touch where you shouldn't.
So. Will I be able to do that again when all will be open? Or the fear is going to stop me, making me unable to enjoy a beautiful girl?
Fun sex always comes with some recklessness, and even if most of the brothels will be able to reopen again (nad I doubt that), fun won't be like before I fear.[/QUOTE]
[URL]https://www.wz.de/nrw/quarantaene-vorschrift-fuer-nrw-rueckkehrer-aufgehoben_aid-51111739[/URL]
If you are from an EU country or a few neighbouring countries, there will be no need to go into quarantine if you enter [B]NRW[/B]. Maybe other states will follow suit.
That's another obstacle down, still some more to go before I can return and I can't see any clubs opening before August 31 yet.
[QUOTE=Downandup;2451082][URL]https://www.wz.de/nrw/quarantaene-vorschrift-fuer-nrw-rueckkehrer-aufgehoben_aid-51111739[/URL]
If you are from an EU country or a few neighbouring countries, there will be no need to go into quarantine if you enter [B]NRW[/B]. Maybe other states will follow suit.
That's another obstacle down, still some more to go before I can return and I can't see any clubs opening before August 31 yet.[/QUOTE]I have had to push my trip back to November, hopefully everything would be opened back up by then. My only worry is the cold. I am visiting Cologne.
[quote]I caught athlete's foot in a club once. I then find out they don't have Lotramin Ultra in Germany. But they have terbenefine so that was about one level weaker than the butenefine ingredient in Lotramin Ultra. But they don't have pseudaphedrine (best treatment for respiratory infections of nose congestion) on the Continent. Closest place that is available in London. But I really don't know how Germans and others on Continental Europe get by without Sudafed. I think with enough Kleenex and Sudafed pretty much any cold or flu is bearable. But then some Zithromax to prevent bacterial infections. It could be the cold humid climate is making it worse for them as it is in New York City.[/quote]Answer:
Sorry I am 60+, and never used any of those medicine, in fact I took 0 medicine in the last 5 years. Most of the medicine are also a kind of poison with a lot of side effects if you live a healthy life, I am 183 high, 83 kilos, no smoker, very moderate drinker you don t need to take medicine except you get a bad disease.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2451147]Answer:
Sorry I am 60+, and never used any of those medicine, in fact I took 0 medicine in the last 5 years. Most of the medicine are also a kind of poison with a lot of side effects if you live a healthy life, I am 183 high, 83 kilos, no smoker, very moderate drinker you don t need to take medicine except you get a bad disease.[/QUOTE]This is the odd thing that I have been mongering for over 20 years, and I never had any STD, it still is mystery to me especially in FKK where girls fuck about minimum 3 different guys per day and for some girls about 10 different guys per day. Given the environment, it is quite astonishing how FKK is proven to be hygienic as it can be, I do not read or hear some monger got some STD in FKK either, but I hear from some of my friends who got std from some girls they met in club (normal disco) or in normal bar. I think platform wise, FKK and escort are even safer platform than normal clubs or normal bars in general, girls or management are more conscious for these things and take care of it accordingly, which result in our safer sex, but I still say no to condom BJ and only accept BBBJ and thankfully BBBJ is still there if you want it even after the new law.
For sure, guys will shout everywhere they got HIV in RTC where girls are fucked AO by 10 guys per day, or they got chlamydia and brought back at home to wife. Wasn't new law also to protect German wives, but I think Germany failed for this, RTC were still working until virus, some guys even asking and proposing to pay very expensive for AO in normal clubs. I'm pretty sure most of guys will have no problem to bring back killer virus at home, maybe a way for getting rid of old wife, to dream to live with a beloved WG.
This is the odd thing that I have been mongering for over 20 years, and I never had any STD, it still is mystery to me especially in FKK where girls fuck about minimum 3 different guys per day and for some girls about 10 different guys per day. Given the environment, it is quite astonishing how FKK is proven to be hygienic as it can be, I do not read or hear some monger got some STD in FKK either, but I hear from some of my friends who got std from some girls they met in club (normal disco) or in normal bar. I think platform wise, FKK and escort are even safer platform than normal clubs or normal bars in general, girls or management are more conscious for these things and take care of it accordingly, which result in our safer sex, but I still say no to condom BJ and only accept BBBJ and thankfully BBBJ is still there if you want it even after the new law.
Reply: I think like me you know a lot of girls very well, it is a legend to think that the management is taking care of the health of the girls (in fact there is no health control), except in Sakura where there is a doctor coming every week and the girls are free to go to control or not. All the girls know that some of the girls are sick. If you don t sex without condom, if you have no skin problem in your mouth, or dick the risk to get sick is very low by licking or BBBJ. Probably like me you are also very selective by choosing the girls that is also reducing the risk.
Of course, many guys are catching disease with prostitutes but they will mostly not advertise about it.
[QUOTE=TeaInTheSun;2451071]I think main point is not when they will open. The most important thing is when we will have a service more similar to what we had before lockdown. What pleasure we will find in having a pretty girl with her face covered or if she provides us a HJ with gloves? Everything is very risky now if we take the virus at home. We have to wait for the vaccine or until the virus loses power or spreads very sporadically.[/QUOTE]Escorts didn't change services in Paris where many deaths around. Still kissing, natural sucking, some even forget condom after orgasm. When I chat with FKK girls, they don t tell me about mask or gloves, they don t care about virus, they wait for business again. But You are very right, if You are not a lonely iron health warrior, then better to be careful for your health and your relatives, not to bring back bad gift at home, when impossible no virus in FKK land when will reopen, now it will be Chinese roulette with risks. No vaccine yet, not until long time and will be impossible to vaccine everybody. Only 1 infected can spread very fast in brothels, when a girl can infect 10 guys a day, and some guys spending many days per week in whole FKK land. Risky playfield now. Better to know risk.
'A nine-year-old boy died in Marseille last Friday from Kawasaki-like disease and tests have shown that he was infected with coronavirus, his doctors told French media on Friday.
A medical team from La Timone University Hospital in Marseille in southern France said he was the first victim of the disease in France and the second in Europe after the death of a boy in the United Kingdom.
"The child presented symptoms that resembled Kawasaki disease and his serology indicated that he had been in contact with the coronavirus without developing symptoms in the previous weeks," said Professor Fabrice Michel, head of the hospital's pediatric resuscitation service. '.
Big surprise to read Stockholm compete with NYC for worst deaths rate all over the world, Italy, Spain and Paris with suburb are far below. More than 1000 deaths in only Stockholm, Sweden is worst rate in Scandinavia, their choice not to confine, even Swedish seem careful, but figures talk.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2451449]Big surprise to read Stockholm compete with NYC for worst deaths rate all over the world, Italy, Spain and Paris with suburb are far below. More than 1000 deaths in only Stockholm, Sweden is worst rate in Scandinavia, their choice not to confine, even Swedish seem careful, but figures talk.[/QUOTE]What are you talking about?
France has 10 times the Death of Sweden.
Today where are the impressive leaders, where are the things strongly improving over the last decades, where it is safe to go out at any time of the day and night, where it is extremely easy to find a job, where there are high speed trains every where, where 4 G even 5 G is every where, where there are highways every where, where all the child are learning to read and speak. Where. Sorry it is China, I always recommend people to travel around the world, to go 10 km from Paris center, same for Milan, to go to New Delhi, to have a look at Detroit or NY by night, to go to Mexico, Miami in the Hispanic districts by night and so and so on, don t spend your time by looking the news most of them are controlled by extremely healthy business people, who are not living like normal people, better you make your own opinion.
[QUOTE=SobeLizard;2451525]What are you talking about?
France has 10 times the Death of Sweden.[/QUOTE]I was just telling Stockholm with more than 1000 deaths is the worst town with NYC for deaths rate, both not confined because US don't respect confined and Trump lie to US about vaccine, only thinking to be reelected, when many US parts like NYC, poor South, Texas where exploding unemployment about petrol, are down under.
Are you telling China is the new model? Land of politic lies, lack of tolerance, poverty in north, low quality for cheap products. Really not a model for my standards, too low level.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2451049]Not for all, but for some, the good thing is that Japan managed well from 1945 and 1980 Japan is top, then came second in 1990's and now third after China. The result was delivered..[/QUOTE]Japanese economy at that time was admired. Then there was the "Lost Decade". And really some would say three lost decades now. The number of working age people to pensioner is the highest in the world.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2451049]As for hikikomori etc. You are too intrigued by mass media, it is only minority of population and this is in fact problem for many nations too like many Italian not leaving their mama's home even at middle age partly due to economical situation as well, but I do think living same roof as parent is good thing as long as house is big enough to have privacy..[/QUOTE]Italian middle-aged people living at home because they don't make enough money is different than being a social recluse. Every country has social recluses, but I do not think they are 1-2 percent of the population like it is in Japan.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2451711]Japanese economy at that time was admired. Then there was the "Lost Decade". And really some would say three lost decades now. The number of working age people to pensioner is the highest in the world.
Italian middle-aged people living at home because they don't make enough money is different than being a social recluse. Every country has social recluses, but I do not think they are 1-2 percent of the population like it is in Japan.[/QUOTE]Well lost decades as in difficulties getting rid of junk bonds are true and it was due to Japan not killing what we called zombie companies, Japan is not fully capitalistic as west, this made Japan to try to save companies that are no point in saving.
Social recluses are true in every nation as I pointed out and you admit, but Japan is one of few nations who gives name to it hikikomori and bother to count them. So I do think considerable numbers are hidden in other nations too, but I do point this out, Japan comparison to west is so comfortable and convenient, so it gives more comfortable ground to some to stay home, but it is not as you try to brainwash yourself with media articles LOL. Personally, I say this, I think if it make people to stay home and if that make him or her feel safe, I think we should respect them for their own decision. It is not up to me, you or media to point fingers at them.
Pointing fingers are the problem of humanity, look we are mongers, and I cannot say I am openly because I know that society won't accept it even though they are the one who point fingers at mongering and they go home and jerk off to some porn movies on their PC behind locked door. So I would adjust your style of going together with what mass media writes.
Japans economy is ranked third now and not admired as China due to their size, but Japan is country of quality and we will be as we always have been, quality products with honesty. As for China, if that is your style, so be it, but remember the cost you or world going to pay for that due to their self claimed communist. Japan is doing better than any nations with Europe and only Germany can compete in similar level, but good thing is Japan is good ally to all world including all eu nations and others beside not with Korean peninsula and China we don't get along and USA being our best ally. With all the problems Japan may face like other nations also, Japan will always prevail like it has been throughout modern history.
Sunny side is that Japan now is leading culturally admired nation, and this thanks to french sophisticated class among other western nations to put Japanese cultures on top spot light with luxury fashionable position, so we will also work on that as we abundant our craftsmen for years and they deserve spot light.
What else, it is corona thread, so Japan will be one of few leading nation that will be beneficial for solving this virus, so it will be nice if you give some admiration and support to Japan as they deserve. It is only non white g7 nation in the world, already in g5 before that, so of course we always get mass media criticism.
Are you telling China is the new model? Land of politic lies, lack of tolerance, poverty in north, low quality for cheap products. Really not a model for my standards, too low level.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2451686]Are you telling China is the new model? Land of politic lies, lack of tolerance, poverty in north, low quality for cheap products. Really not a model for my standards, too low level.[/QUOTE]My writing is not about Chinese people of course, when they are not free in their country, they are afraid to tell because they know what can happen to them, even they know their politics lie. As a French, not US, I don t have big problem and I'm not afraid about communism, and I even prefer to what happen in US with so many unemployed without health insurance, what happen to Afro Americans at the moment, but lack of freedom, human rights and tolerance, like for Dalai Lama. Must be my social part, when real lying competition between Trump ready for anything for election and China. At least in France, we are not the most powerful, we were never, yes we have too many about 35000 deaths and I'm sad about this when I know how medical staff do their best for us, when nurses are paid 2000 per month and insulted by crazy, when we must kiss them for their care, we even have poverty like in district 93 I know quite well, but at least we are free to think, to tell, even I miss freedom to move since 2 months, but if confined saved more than 60 thousands life, then my big frustration is not so important. But I m sure China is a very interesting for culture country, but a prison, seen from France. When I was put in jail in Switzerland just for fines I refused to pay because of administration expensive charge and because they stole my coyote, I insulted kantonal polizei and jail administration because they didn't respect my rights, after telling me many times to stop, they just put me for 2 days and 1 night in underground very small room with no window.
The UK media are getting very excited about an ongoing trial for a Vaccine created by Oxford University.
In partnership between Oxford University and Astra Zeneca one million doses of vaccine are already being made BEFORE the results of the trial are known.
Of the one million doses of vaccine thirty million will immediately be made available to the UK with September the start date for immunization.
Although early signs are very good the UK Government is "playing down" the possible success of the project but the media is very positive.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2451049]Not for all, but for some, the good thing is that Japan managed well from 1945 and 1980 Japan is top, then came second in 1990's and now third after China. The result was delivered..............[/QUOTE]Japan is the most indebted country in the world with a debt-to-GDP ratio of 235 percent. Who is poorer a man with $10 but owes nothing or a man who has $100 but owes $235?
[QUOTE=MrHo;2451049]Not for all, but for some, the good thing is that Japan managed well from 1945 and 1980 Japan is top, then came second in 1990's and now third after China. The result was delivered.
As for hikikomori etc. You are too intrigued by mass media, it is only minority of population and this is in fact problem for many nations too like many Italian not leaving their mama's home even at middle age partly due to economical situation as well, but I do think living same roof as parent is good thing as long as house is big enough to have privacy. Your mass media brain is in same level as Japan still have ninja and that is why Japan has such a success companies like Toyota, Honda, Sony, Omron, Panasonic, Toshiba, honestly I can keep goes on with few hundred names that are global company that is even almost big as some European nation as single mega company LOL.
Not all nations can be perfect, but China is dangerous nation with communist government. I even suspect they did this virus thing on purpose to some extent to mess up US election because Donald Trump regime cost China not just billions, but trillions of losses every single year his regime is in power in USA. I hope US will be smart enough to vote for republican even though they may find Trump annoying. Vote for his regime, not him.[/QUOTE]Here are some numbers: (GDP is 2018 nominal per World Bank).
Japan GDP $4.97 trillion, population 126 million, per person it is $39,500.
USA: $20.5 trillion, 328 million, per person $62,600.
China: $13.6 trillion, 1. 39 billion people, $9,800 per person.
Germany: $3. 95 trillion, 83 mil people, $47,600 per person.
France: $2.8 trillion, 67 mil people, $41,790 per person.
We can go through many other countries. But right now, Japan GDP per person is slightly less than France, and 37% less than US.
It is a bigger economy than France and even Germany due to larger population but then again it is roughly 1/3 the size of China in terms of economic size obviously because China has the most people in the world. These days China is #1 on Trump and American minds, our biggest problem and rival.
As for companies:
Here are the values of some comapanies (number of shares multiplied by stock price inn case you want to verify the market capitalization).
Apple: $1,360 B.
Google: $950 b.
Amazon: $1210 B.
Microsoft: $1400 B.
FaceBook:$610 B.
Johnson and Johnson $400 B.
Berkshire Hathaway $420 B.
JP Morgan $270 B.
Visa $370 B.
Now some Japanese firms (the ones you listed and a couple of other large ones which are big weights in Topix).
Toyota $190 B.
Honda $42 B.
Sony $78 B.
Omron $13 B.
Panasonic $18 B.
Toshiba $12 B.
Keyence $88 b.
Takeda $59 B.
Entire value of Topix, which is the Japanese market index is $3. 7 trillion. That is less than Apple plus Microsoft plus Amazon.
Other countries:
German companies.
Linde $100 B.
SAP 143 B.
Siemens $83 B.
Allianz $69 B.
Bayer $64 B.
BASF $45 B.
France.
Sanofi $119 B.
LVMH $190 B.
Total $93 B.
L'Oreal $152 B.
Air Liquid $60 B.
Schneider $52 B.
China.
Tencent $520 B.
Alibaba $570 B.
China Construction Bank $195 B.
Ping An Insurance $184 B.
ICBC $250 B.
Meituan Dianping $90 B.
You can see that Alibaba alone is worth more than all the companies you listed.
If you have access to Factset or Bloomberg or any other financial software, you can easily verify them. Even Yahoo or Google finance can help you verify these data.
Cheers.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2451449]Big surprise to read Stockholm compete with NYC for worst deaths rate all over the world, Italy, Spain and Paris with suburb are far below. More than 1000 deaths in only Stockholm, Sweden is worst rate in Scandinavia, their choice not to confine, even Swedish seem careful, but figures talk.[/QUOTE]First, we talk about REGISTERED deaths. Sweden (and Belgium) are good on identifying the real death reason.
Different countries count Corona-deaths in different ways.
In other countries, deaths by Corona are obviously underestimated.
And here is the real reason to many deaths in Stockholm.
Second, most deaths in Stockholm are people from poor immigration ghettos, where people do not understand Swedish and have not been able to assimilate information about Corona.
On the other hand, immunity in Stockholm is now very high - well prepared for "the second wave".
[QUOTE=TheCane;2450928]OK, you go first then! Hahaha![/QUOTE]OK fine, I will TOFTT.
While you are stuck wanking in your apartment, I will be out in the wild sticking my cock between the plump ass cheeks of ten beautiful women.
(If I stop posting here, you will know I am dead and that was a bad idea and not to do it.).
OK fine, I will TOFTT.
While you are stuck wanking in your apartment, I will be out in the wild sticking my cock between the plump ass cheeks of ten beautiful women.
(If I stop posting here, you will know I am dead and that was a bad idea and not to do it.).
I am wondering where you will go 'to stick your cock between the plump ass' knowing than all the FKK are closed and brothel too, sorry but the girls will not care about your death as long you paid them: take it easy life is too short.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2451922]
I am wondering where you will go 'to stick your cock between the plump ass' knowing than all the FKK are closed and brothel too, sorry but the girls will not care about your death as long you paid them: take it easy life is too short.[/QUOTE]Salaam ExpatLover, Ramadan ends on Saturday, that is when I will really get my freak on, Corona or no-Corona, I know many girls outside the FKK scene, many of them are going stir-crazy because they have not had sex for two months and have run out of money too.
Germany had only 21 deaths today. Switzerland had only 2 deaths. Austria had ZERO! Even after reopening restaurants and everything. I know I've said some harsh things in the past but right now I couldn't be prouder of these guys, they are fucking crushing it.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2451902]First, we talk about REGISTERED deaths. Sweden (and Belgium) are good on identifying the real death reason.
Different countries count Corona-deaths in different ways.
In other countries, deaths by Corona are obviously underestimated.
And here is the real reason to many deaths in Stockholm.
Second, most deaths in Stockholm are people from poor immigration ghettos, where people do not understand Swedish and have not been able to assimilate information about Corona.
On the other hand, immunity in Stockholm is now very high - well prepared for "the second wave".[/QUOTE]I'm sure you are right: poverty kill also in Stockholm, like in NYC, or in Paris suburb. Today, when driving from job to home, I was laughing about what I read here when hearing only 28 deaths in Ivory cost with 25 millions people, nobody, not even Austria nor Germany can compete with such medical efficiency. I think next time I will need healthcare, I will run there rather than going to Paris hospitals which are so low level compare to Africa with less than 3000 deaths for 1,3 billion people and I'm very happy for them. When only Germany have 6000 deaths.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2451879]Japan is the most indebted country in the world with a debt-to-GDP ratio of 235 percent. Who is poorer a man with $10 but owes nothing or a man who has $100 but owes $235?[/QUOTE]I am tired of giving economic lesson in sex forum for those who has lower understanding of economy with lower education LOL.
Look, I give you that you are right to some extent, but you are so shallow like west nations, the trick and deeper fact is this: In G7 nations, Japan is only country who can decide when to print our own currency because central bank of Japan is owned solely by Japanese government and Japan, it is like high end 90 %, so we decide when to print our currency. This is not the case for other G7 nations like EU system and also US federal reserve is not really federal is it? I am not going into that here about US federal reserve because I cannot be bother to explain to you.
Also japanse bond is backed by solely by Japanese yen, so we are find there too, and there will be time mass media may attack Japan hired by financial institution for their short position, but as above deeper insight into what we are doing, it does not matter fundamentally.
Each time, when there is world crisis, safe currencies goes up also gold and Japanese yen become strong because foreign money escape into japanese yen for its safety and this shows how safe our currencies are and also our bond back by our currency solely. So think for once carefully LOL! And hey, it is nice foreign intelligent bankers are escaping into yen, but we don't want our yen to be strong, we want our yen to be weak currency as Japan is big exporters with all our mega companies, so it benefit us more if yen is weaker, but this yen being strong in crisis is result of our credibility in international financial institions even though we get criticize, they do the opposite because they know the truth. Like it is usual that bank says opposite, bank say sell, you buy, they say buy, you sell LOL.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2451897]Here are some numbers: (GDP is 2018 nominal per World Bank).
Japan GDP $4.97 trillion, population 126 million, per person it is $39,500.
USA: $20.5 trillion, 328 million, per person $62,600.
China: $13.6 trillion, 1. 39 billion people, $9,800 per person.[/QUOTE]Do you have at least some university degree or some stupid college or do you even work in proper white collar job? LOL If you think Japan is smaller than France and you must be taking heroine LOL. They are not even bigger than Germany. GDP per person, who cares about each person, we are talking country here.
World change long ago and it is not only west who has power like in 19th century, so wake up to 21st century or even 20th century and stop living in glory of 19th century Europe LOL.
However, there is nation like China who is dangerous to be granted strong economy, so USA and ally should do something about this.
And hey! It is France who made laboratory in Wuhan China, this mentality of yours that west is dominating economy which is few centuries out dated dig their own grave in Europe. It is France who made that Chinese virus lab in Wuhan China and fired back on them. France is known for arrogance and ignorance and look what happened to them now, they did it to themselves and to world also with this corona virus. France and China did this corona virus killing through this failed lab in Wuhan China they created with their limited technology.
Wow you are a totally clueless , aren't you, Ho? I told you the source is world bank and IMF. Easy to look up. Or use Bloomberg or Fact set. I doubt you even know what they are. Your language skills are abysmal and despite your constant empty bragging that you have money, I bet 80% of the people posting here are richer than you are but have way too much class to brag as you do. Your education or lack of it is quite evident from your fourth rate comprehension skills. Japan was something to be reckoned with a while ago. Now, it is sliding back. Too bad you can't understand per capita and what it means. Read and weep but the reality is that France' per capita GDP is above Japan now and Germany is 15% higher and we are much much higher than Japan's, and let me repeat, those are per capita (we know you are slow witted, it helps to repeat for your benefit). As for your companies, all the ones you listed have a combined market capitalization less than that of Alibaba. Do you even understand when I told you that Microsoft plus Amazon plus Apple together. Just three companies. Have more market capitalization than the entire Japanese market? Do you know what that even means or know how to verify? Like a retarded kid, your modus operandi is to blurt out insults from the safe space of a key board but that doesn't impress anyone.
This is for the benefit of other members.
[URL]https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD[/URL]
Predictable I guess? Reported this morning in Bild.
May 19,2020 - 05:16 am.
Is the corona virus now destroying the oldest trade in the world?
In view of the corona-related closure of prostitution facilities, a group of members of the Bundestag from the Union and the SPD is calling for a sex ban and exit programs for prostitutes.
The shutdown for prostitution imposed during the Corona crisis should not be relaxed, they demand in a letter to the heads of government of the federal states, available to the German press agency. Otherwise they fear foci of infection.
"It is obvious that prostitution would have the effect of an epidemiological super-spreader. Sexual acts are usually not compatible with social distancing," the paper says. When tracing infection chains, contact with prostitutes is likely to be kept secret.
The letter was signed by 16 parliamentarians, among them the trade unionist Leni Breymaier (60, SPD), the deputy head of the Union faction and former health minister Hermann Grhe (59, CDU) and the medical doctor Karl Lauterbach (57, SPD). There are 33,000 officially registered prostitutes in Germany and, according to representatives, up to 400,000 in total.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2451897]Here are some numbers: (GDP is 2018 nominal per World Bank).
Japan GDP $4.97 trillion, population 126 million, per person it is $39,500.
USA: $20.5 trillion, 328 million, per person $62,600.
China: $13.6 trillion, 1. 39 billion people, $9,800 per person.
Germany: $3. 95 trillion, 83 mil people, $47,600 per person.
France: $2.8 trillion, 67 mil people, $41,790 per person..[/QUOTE]So, your figures show, German or French people have higher level of earning than Japanese when China compete with Romania for this point. Fortunately for me and from my parents, I learned at school to be able to work to make much more than this French average level of earning, why I can pay my holidays, weekly games and escorts on week days. You have to know main difference between French and German levels of earning is much more expensive charge and tax in France. I'm pretty sure if you take people earning at the end of the month + charge and tax, then France may be higher than Germany and this is the big problem for France in world competition, versus cheap China, India, even US have many cheap products like cars, but you can't compare for quality. Western Europe have highest standards for quality, why I don't care much about China, I'm not afraid like Japan or US, they increased too fast, they already started falling before virus and I really wish Western Europe will learn about not reliable, cheap, low level products, when we are much higher level than this. We need more quality for our health and safety. From what I learned, mathematics tell each problem have at least 1 solution, so You just have to be able to find it and better for this to be able to understand hypothesis, about so narrow I read here, when I find Africa and of course there are explanations, but I find, with their poverty, no medical, but we should learn from them when we can compare with their brothers in US where also warm weather in Louisiana or Georgia, but what they became. I really think this virus really show who we are: rich, poor, our way of life with our diseases, Africa with young population, rich world with more and more old people. As tell mathematics, there is always explanation.
For my part, when I spent more than 100 days per year, when I know some who are 6 days per week in FKK land, moving between Germany, Switzerland and Spain, I don t miss brothels, I don t like brothels atmosphere, what I see, some girls know how it s sometimes unpleasant for me, as I always said: I don t care about GT or Globe, only brothels fuck factory full of jealousy and lies, only World is a bit different for me, because more beautiful, when my mother made me only for beauty, I m only interested by beauty and I followed some changing club, because I don t care about clubs, I m not stuck to one, when I followed Megan in 3 different clubs for 5 years and she thank a bad guy like me she trust for Globe, not so bad for a bad French when a German told her to stay at Sharks. Fortunately I found more cosy with more chic atmosphere for me like Amesia, Freubad can also and my new playfield with Slavian, fresh real woman types in Catalunya and there You feel on holidays even on Winter, when prostitute behavior with no chic, no charm, no elegance, rubbing on You or touching your dick, or even playing with your hair or touching your face, or telling: I want You, are so boring, I don t need this low level when most are not even pretty enough, not my level to enjoy. Even only 4 meetings with 3 only with Olga. Ru on last week, since my last FKK visit on 14 March, I don t miss much, I miss much more ski and really wish for extreme free ride for my only day of the year, on next week end, even over 100 kms, and really look forward my climbing, couldn't make oxygen on this Winter, so I will extend my season. I also saw much prettier girls in Paris where not more than 30% have mask, than in brothels. Beauties worth more than brothels for me, and princess beauties usually appreciate my manners with women.
[QUOTE=MrBluenose;2452045]Predictable I guess? Reported this morning in Bild.
May 19,2020 - 05:16 am.
Is the corona virus now destroying the oldest trade in the world?
In view of the corona-related closure of prostitution facilities, a group of members of the Bundestag from the Union and the SPD is calling for a sex ban and exit programs for prostitutes.
The shutdown for prostitution imposed during the Corona crisis should not be relaxed, they demand in a letter to the heads of government of the federal states, available to the German press agency. Otherwise they fear foci of infection.
"It is obvious that prostitution would have the effect of an epidemiological super-spreader. Sexual acts are usually not compatible with social distancing," the paper says. When tracing infection chains, contact with prostitutes is likely to be kept secret.
The letter was signed by 16 parliamentarians, among them the trade unionist Leni Breymaier (60, SPD), the deputy head of the Union faction and former health minister Hermann Grhe (59, CDU) and the medical doctor Karl Lauterbach (57, SPD). There are 33,000 officially registered prostitutes in Germany and, according to representatives, up to 400,000 in total.[/QUOTE]For sure, when you look the crowd, virus in brothels will kill and also relatives around. German R0 should have problems.
[QUOTE=MrBluenose;2452045]The letter was signed by 16 parliamentarians, among them the trade unionist Leni Breymaier (60, SPD), the deputy head of the Union faction and former health minister Hermann Grhe (59, CDU) and the medical doctor Karl Lauterbach (57, SPD). There are 33,000 officially registered prostitutes in Germany and, according to representatives, up to 400,000 in total.[/QUOTE]This is my take on this, Leni is so envious about other women, who manage to get paid for sex, while I would pay big money for not having sex with her! Karl is clearly impotent and Hermann, hey, I think I saw him wrapped in a bathrobe in a FKK on the way to 'zimmer'! LOL.
They will not ban prostitution.
Rock.
[QUOTE=MrBluenose;2452045]Predictable I guess? Reported this morning in Bild.
May 19,2020 - 05:16 am.
Is the corona virus now destroying the oldest trade in the world?
In view of the corona-related closure of prostitution facilities, a group of members of the Bundestag from the Union and the SPD is calling for a sex ban and exit programs for prostitutes.
The shutdown for prostitution imposed during the Corona crisis should not be relaxed, they demand in a letter to the heads of government of the federal states, available to the German press agency. Otherwise they fear foci of infection.
"It is obvious that prostitution would have the effect of an epidemiological super-spreader. Sexual acts are usually not compatible with social distancing," the paper says. When tracing infection chains, contact with prostitutes is likely to be kept secret.
The letter was signed by 16 parliamentarians, among them the trade unionist Leni Breymaier (60, SPD), the deputy head of the Union faction and former health minister Hermann Grhe (59, CDU) and the medical doctor Karl Lauterbach (57, SPD). There are 33,000 officially registered prostitutes in Germany and, according to representatives, up to 400,000 in total.[/QUOTE]I will be damned when corona is over and I go to FKK and I bump into FKK girls name "corona" LOL!
[QUOTE=MrBluenose;2452045]Is the corona virus now destroying the oldest trade in the world?
In view of the corona-related closure of prostitution facilities, a group of members of the Bundestag from the Union and the SPD is calling for a sex ban and exit programs for prostitutes.[/QUOTE]Wait and see like everything else. A permanent ban seems extreme. But I could envision them extending the date for restrictions every month until there is a vaccine, which could effectively be a ban for 1-2 years. People will still find ways to partake underground. But if outbreaks occurs via these underground activities, the politicians can at least say that they did everything in their power to prevent them.
Austria looks to be opening brothels July 1 (so says Goldentime Vienna). It would be a shame for Germany to miss out on all that tourism money coming in.
[QUOTE=MrBluenose;2452045]Predictable I guess? Reported this morning in Bild.
May 19,2020 - 05:16 am.
Is the corona virus now destroying the oldest trade in the world?
In view of the corona-related closure of prostitution facilities, a group of members of the Bundestag from the Union and the SPD is calling for a sex ban and exit programs for prostitutes.
The shutdown for prostitution imposed during the Corona crisis should not be relaxed, they demand in a letter to the heads of government of the federal states, available to the German press agency. Otherwise they fear foci of infection.
"It is obvious that prostitution would have the effect of an epidemiological super-spreader. Sexual acts are usually not compatible with social distancing," the paper says. When tracing infection chains, contact with prostitutes is likely to be kept secret.
The letter was signed by 16 parliamentarians, among them the trade unionist Leni Breymaier (60, SPD), the deputy head of the Union faction and former health minister Hermann Grhe (59, CDU) and the medical doctor Karl Lauterbach (57, SPD). There are 33,000 officially registered prostitutes in Germany and, according to representatives, up to 400,000 in total.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MrHo;2451983]I am tired of giving economic lesson in sex forum for those who has lower understanding of economy with lower education LOL.
Look, I give you that you are right to some extent, but you are so shallow like west nations, the trick and deeper fact is this: In G7 nations, Japan is only country who can decide when to print our own currency because central bank of Japan is owned solely by Japanese government and Japan, it is like high end 90 %, so we decide when to print our currency. This is not the case for other G7 nations like EU system and also US federal reserve is not really federal is it? I am not going into that here about US federal reserve because I cannot be bother to explain to you.
Also japanse bond is backed by solely by Japanese yen, so we are find there too, and there will be time mass media may attack Japan hired by financial institution for their short position, but as above deeper insight into what we are doing, it does not matter fundamentally.
Each time, when there is world crisis, safe currencies goes up also gold and Japanese yen become strong because foreign money escape into japanese yen for its safety and this shows how safe our currencies are and also our bond back by our currency solely. So think for once carefully LOL! And hey, it is nice foreign intelligent bankers are escaping into yen, but we don't want our yen to be strong, we want our yen to be weak currency as Japan is big exporters with all our mega companies, so it benefit us more if yen is weaker, but this yen being strong in crisis is result of our credibility in international financial institions even though we get criticize, they do the opposite because they know the truth. Like it is usual that bank says opposite, bank say sell, you buy, they say buy, you sell LOL.[/QUOTE]The issue is not that Japan can print its own money the issue is that if Japan could not print its own money like most of the world's countries it would, in spite of the high work ethic of the people, be in much greater financial difficulty than it already is.
Additionally, while the bank of Japan says that individual financial assets in Japan reached JPY1,630 trn ($15.85 trn) as of March 31,2014, in fact Japanese households had one of the lowest savings rates in the OECD -- 0. 9% of household income, which was 23rd of 28 countries. Indeed, about 30% of households have no savings. Japan being referred to as an economic powerhouse today is shallow hype, what good is being a financial powerhouse if the people are poor.
I wonder if the questioning at the port of entry will get any tougher?
Officer: What is your name sir?
Passenger: Mr. Ho.
Officer: And why do you have so much cash with you Mr. Ho?
Passenger: Because I am going to the FKK sauna clubs, and the girls never have change!
Officer: LOLOLOLOLOL!
Still one of the funniest things I have read on this site hahaha!
[QUOTE=MrBluenose;2452045]Predictable I guess? Reported this morning in Bild.
May 19,2020 - 05:16 am.
Is the corona virus now destroying the oldest trade in the world?
In view of the corona-related closure of prostitution facilities, a group of members of the Bundestag from the Union and the SPD is calling for a sex ban and exit programs for prostitutes.
The shutdown for prostitution imposed during the Corona crisis should not be relaxed, they demand in a letter to the heads of government of the federal states, available to the German press agency. Otherwise they fear foci of infection.
"It is obvious that prostitution would have the effect of an epidemiological super-spreader. Sexual acts are usually not compatible with social distancing," the paper says. When tracing infection chains, contact with prostitutes is likely to be kept secret.
The letter was signed by 16 parliamentarians, among them the trade unionist Leni Breymaier (60, SPD), the deputy head of the Union faction and former health minister Hermann Grhe (59, CDU) and the medical doctor Karl Lauterbach (57, SPD). There are 33,000 officially registered prostitutes in Germany and, according to representatives, up to 400,000 in total.[/QUOTE]I once played World of Warcraft and there was this bug that made a disease spread like wildfire. What me and some friends did was to attain the bug, and release it on our enemies on our server. Greatest weapon of all time in any game I have played. You just have to get the disease, and get to the right place afterwards. Games can really be of great learning!
Also, many politicians are boomers. And the boomers are at great risk in all of this. Just look at Biden and Trump. They are both so old that this entire pandemic could turn out to be a blessing. No need to choose the lesser of two evils.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2451986]However, there is nation like China who is dangerous to be granted strong economy, so USA and ally should do something about this.[/QUOTE]Well, not China. Most Chinese people are extremely nice and very friendly. It is the entire CCP propaganda arm and fascist politics that frightens me. And one can probably soon start to compare them with NSDAP, since it is just getting worse and worse and worse since Xi took over with his warring and neo-facist take on everything.
Generalizing it as being China, would be like generalizing all westerners as being Donald Trump.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2451902]First, we talk about REGISTERED deaths. Sweden (and Belgium) are good on identifying the real death reason.[/QUOTE]Belgium also include suspected Covid deaths in the total number and that is why it is much higher than other countries.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2451986]They are not even bigger than Germany. GDP per person, who cares about each person, we are talking country here.[/QUOTE]OK you're right. So according to you, China kicks Japan's bony ass: 13.6 vs 5.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2452142]Belgium also include suspected Covid deaths in the total number and that is why it is much higher than other countries.[/QUOTE]France tell 28000 deaths in news, I write 35000 with deaths let by doctors quietly at home, from medical information, at least I m honest. US will go soon to 100 000 if they don't all take chloroquine. How is it possible to elect a so crazy and dangerous.
[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2452107]Austria looks to be opening brothels July 1 (so says Goldentime Vienna). It would be a shame for Germany to miss out on all that tourism money coming in.[/QUOTE]But maybe, German politics don't want to have many more deaths. Many guys in brothels don't seem so healthy, and can be brought back at home. Germany is not in high ranking for tourism, when France is number 1 when 15 times less large than US. Spain is number 3 for tourism with much more income than Germany, so many Germans spend holidays in Spain, but Spain may not open borders on this Summer. We don't know yet for France.
[QUOTE=BigBuddy69;2452151]OK you're right. So according to you, China kicks Japan's bony ass: 13.6 vs 5.[/QUOTE]Why you are so naively low educated sticking to things in just black and white, do you know that a lot of things in politic and economy is rather grey like most of things in life? China as capacity of country beat Japan, they are ranked second now in the world due to their quantity and Japan is guilty for that as we are one of the main nation who gave them technology.
However, it is not all black and white, Japan unlike most nations, we have so much actual cash cows, I won't name all companies, but whether it is sony, panasonic, toshiba, mitsubishi ufj bank, mitsui sumitomo bank or uniqlo or omron or cannon and so on lists are endless as I hope you least know, these are all Japanese companies and most of our companies are all in top 10 or top 5 in the world in all sectors of different industries, where as China only has few of that at the moment and mostly are still factories, as they are called the factories of world and hey usa trying to pull out, Japan is trying to pull out and hopefully rest of world including France who made this failed virus laboratory in wuhan China too. It is just quantity power of China, look at that nation look their insane size and hey look at Japan, it is tiny island nation who got to top fast because we are organized, honest, disciplined, good refined sophisticated culture (this also France and Italy too) and most importantly intelligent. But size did beat Japan, but like in most things in life it is matter of time, I hope for world. China is not safe due to their communist government, people are OK, but tend to cheat a lot, so let see if that culture change, they are opposite of how japanese people are, we are honest being who focus on quality that got us to top.
At least this is what most intellect of the world knows as we have usually very good reputation, but not on this sex forum LOL! It must be that most of the guys here who are so anti Japan which is first time I heard beside in China and Korea (some of them are anti Japan due to their public education), you guys must be got your education from romanian prostitutes LOL! Your brain and understanding of the world is in same level as romanian prostitutes LOL! This is true as your thinking is too shallow, but radical LOL! Look deep behind things in life because it has surfaces.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2452108]The issue is not that Japan can print its own money the issue is that if Japan could not print its own money like most of the world's countries it would, in spite of the high work ethic of the people, be in much greater financial difficulty than it already is.
Additionally, while the bank of Japan says that individual financial assets in Japan reached JPY1,630 trn ($15.85 trn) as of March 31,2014, in fact Japanese households had one of the lowest savings rates in the OECD -- 0. 9% of household income, which was 23rd of 28 countries. Indeed, about 30% of households have no savings. Japan being referred to as an economic powerhouse today is shallow hype, what good is being a financial powerhouse if the people are poor.[/QUOTE]Well some low educated mentioned about national debt, so I explained what is going on. Again we are the only G7 nation who can print our own money at our will owning our own central bank ourselves and our bond is solely backed by japanese yen so we decide, this is most important when it comes to country management. We wanted that after ww2 and we appeal to interest of USA and we managed to convince USA who are our best friend and ally.
As for people. This is the system and you are half true, Japanese government sees citizen as foot soldiers LOL this is reality of it if you look deep into what is going on, it is going on due to immigration though, someone mentioned about decrease in population and this is problem in all G7 nations, people are smarter so don't make kids, so most G7 nations went for immigration long ago beside Japan, but we too are opening our door, but we are learning from mistakes of EU immigration and we are trying to choose better. But people live good here, there is no poverty almost in Japan, I mean anyone who has been here know that we rarely have homeless and if there are it is by choice. They can get 1500 USD per month if they request it wit free medical care too. But people live good here. And other thing, Japan keep money in the company and country and this is how it should be, we don't believe few individual take all the billions and often take off like what happened in many western nations like France, many french billionaire people immigrate to other nations and just do business in France, we don't want this here. There are many billionaire in Japan too, I mean look at all the mega companies in Japan, we have the most prestigious companies in the world, we actually do business here not just money game like most western nations, these are solid product manufacturing companies, and behind them are owners, but even with high tax here, they stayed in Japan, they did not take off like in western nations even though they could, it is cultural thing, it is called mega rich giving back to society and country, maybe west should learn philosophy from us LOL!
However, quality of life in Japan in other aspect like hygiene, medical level, shopping, food, safety, infrastructure, people are polite etc. Are much higher in Japan than western nations. Anybody who has been here knows that.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2452127]Well, not China. Most Chinese people are extremely nice and very friendly. It is the entire CCP propaganda arm and fascist politics that frightens me. And one can probably soon start to compare them with NSDAP, since it is just getting worse and worse and worse since Xi took over with his warring and neo-facist take on everything.
Generalizing it as being China, would be like generalizing all westerners as being Donald Trump.[/QUOTE]This I agree, it is their government and people who unfortunately got brainwashed by them, but some of people are bravely fighting back even though it often lead to false arrest or even disappearance. It is fault of Japan and UK as we began fighting in 1940's there and communist party then who were so weak and almost got defeated by chinese government run into mountain to hide during war then after war is finished when China was weak, these communist came back and took over. So it is partly fault of Japan and UK and I am one of few japanese who admit that.
As for Donald Trump, he beside all the not fair pressure, he is pro Japan by the way LOL. You have to look deep into his regime and don't be fool by his foolish act, it is act for election, his government structure is most intelligent and good ever has been, like when I saw Mike pence being appointed as vice president of USA, then I knew what is going on behind, it is good regime and I won't explain here as I am not educator of sex forum low educated individuals LOL! Don't judge donald trump on his foolish cover, it is just a front. But yeah he is hilariously annoying sometimes LOL. Japan manage him fine and we like him in general and his respectful daughter. Basically it is very anglo saxon jewish regime and it is fine, we get along with them beside all it is not fair claim when he need investment in USA, which we happily do to serve both of our interest, donald trump is like that on just surface, behind close door, he is fair enough guy, he knows where is right landing point it.
Even during corona, it is not just for election he is attacking WHO, if it is not trump there would not be truth being revealed on most corrupt WHO which is CHO, Chinese Health Organization lead by ethiopian whom his nations is bought by China, so he has to listen to China. Taiwan not allowed to join WHO as observer? Whatta hell is that political discrimination? And since most of sex forum guys are low educated as romanian prostitutes and nobody mentioned Taiwan, I would say Taiwan did best job at corona handling, even better than Japan, and Taiwan has been warning WHO since last December, but WHO ignored Taiwan because of chinese pressure. Really shame on WHO and that ehiopian need to be fired.
It is franc who built this lab in China, China hide the truth and also WHO, so corona virus pandemic is collaboration job done by France, China and WHO. Truth won't be revealed, but this is fact of how the foundation of this whole problem started.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2452213]France tell 28000 deaths in news[/QUOTE][I]Haut les coeurs![/I] I checked the stats and yesterday the total deaths went from 28,239 to 28,022 -- a rise of only -0. 77%.
When I first read that, I was thrilled, but on second thoughts I'm not sure I like the idea of Coronavirus victims bashing their way out of coffins and shambling around Notre Dame at night, getting very bitey, etc. Believe me, sometimes death is the better option.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2452126]I once played World of Warcraft and there was this bug that made a disease spread like wildfire. What me and some friends did was to attain the bug, and release it on our enemies on our server. Greatest weapon of all time in any game I have played. You just have to get the disease, and get to the right place afterwards. Games can really be of great learning![/QUOTE]
Well if you like to like to play at being Professor "Bat-Woman" Zhengli, you can get games for the phone like Plague and Pandemic, and also boardgames.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2452126]
Also, many politicians are boomers. And the boomers are at great risk in all of this. Just look at Biden and Trump. They are both so old that this entire pandemic could turn out to be a blessing. No need to choose the lesser of two evils.[/QUOTE]
Yes there is. I endorse Joe Biden for President of the United States, because there is no chance he will ever remember the nuclear codes. Seriously the greatest threat we face, it makes COVID-19 look like a bat's balls by comparison.
[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2452107]Austria looks to be opening brothels July 1 (so says Goldentime Vienna). It would be a shame for Germany to miss out on all that tourism money coming in.[/QUOTE]I expected more from FKK lobbyists in Germany. Austria it is!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2452239]China as capacity of country beat Japan, they are ranked second now in the world due to their quantity and Japan is guilty for that as we are one of the main nation who gave them technology.[/QUOTE]Maybe your country felt the need to be forgiven after some little missteps like Nanking and Unit 731?
[QUOTE=DasBooty;2452317]I expected more from FKK lobbyists in Germany. Austria it is![/QUOTE]Is lobbying legal in Germany and Austria?
If so such lobbyist have good set of feminist activist demonstrating over weekend front of his house calling him the menace of all female LOL!
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2452268][I]Haut les coeurs![/I] I checked the stats and yesterday the total deaths went from 28,239 to 28,022 -- a rise of only -0. 77%.
When I first read that, I was thrilled, but on second thoughts I'm not sure I like the idea of Coronavirus victims bashing their way out of coffins and shambling around Notre Dame at night, getting very bitey, etc. Believe me, sometimes death is the better option.
Well if you like to like to play at being Professor "Bat-Woman" Zhengli, you can get games for the phone like Plague and Pandemic, and also boardgames.
Yes there is. I endorse Joe Biden for President of the United States, because there is no chance he will ever remember the nuclear codes. Seriously the greatest threat we face, it makes COVID-19 look like a bat's balls by comparison.[/QUOTE]France made that failed virus laboratory in China with their limited technology and know how in area of medical field, so they dig their own grave and now being hysteric about what France have done to themselves together with China and WHO.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2450970]The two oldest populations have had two different medical outcomes, and I think it can be mostly be explained by culture. Many Italians visit their ageing parents more than once a week (or live under the same roof as them). Japanese are not connected in this way. Since end of WWII, Japan's single-minded focus on rapid economic growth has eroded family ties and social connections.[/QUOTE]Concerning your obsession with hikikomori and recluse, I forgot to add one thing. You are so ignorant as usual and let me explain you why.
Howard Hughes, I think it is fair to say, he is most recluse of all time and hey without his intelligence and existence, we would not be flying in the way that we are flying today, he contributed vastly for aviation world, so that we get to fly to Germany and fuck girls as we choose to, so there is some positive recluse from most extreme recluse or hikikomori world that you have such negative opinion about.
I am not finger pointer for other people, I mean I am hentai myself flying half the way around world just to fuck girls, so who am I to point fingers to recluse or whoever, but what I do trash talks are those who point fingers at people without knowing what they are talking about with limited education and intelligence, not even knowing you are actually benefiting from people you are pointing finger at.
Because of Howard Hughes the most recluse hikikomori of all time, we mongers would not be flying to German FKK or where-ever, so instead of pointing finger, be grateful and admit your lack of intelligence and knowledge. You benefit from recluse without even knowing it LOL.
I bet German lobbyists will come through. There's lots of clubs and lots of big money in this industry there. When they see Austria taking away market share they will get their act together.
[QUOTE=DasBooty;2452317]I expected more from FKK lobbyists in Germany. Austria it is![/QUOTE]
Link to DW article about permanent closures here.
[URL]https://www.dw.com/en/german-lawmakers-call-for-buying-sex-to-be-made-permanently-illegal/a-53504221?maca=en-EMail-sharing[/URL]
[QUOTE=Clodius1;2452425]Link to DW article about permanent closures here.
[URL]https://www.dw.com/en/german-lawmakers-call-for-buying-sex-to-be-made-permanently-illegal/a-53504221?maca=en-EMail-sharing[/URL][/QUOTE]We had to anticipate that some people would use this virus as an excuse for accomplishing what they've always wanted anyway. A permanent ban of the FKKs!
Denmark, Finland and Norway are debating whether to maintain travel restrictions on Sweden but ease them for other countries as they nervously eye their Nordic neighbour's higher coronavirus death toll.
As of Wednesday, 3,831 people had died from Covid-19 in Sweden, a country with a population of 10 m. Denmark, Finland and Norway — which each have about 5 m inhabitants — have recorded death tolls of 551,301 and 233, respectively. Swedish authorities argued that a lockdown and closed borders would bring relatively few benefits at a high cost to public health and the economy.
The FT tracker shows that Sweden had 6. 4 deaths per million people 61 days after its death rate first climbed above 0. 1 deaths per million. That contrasts with the UK's 6. 2 deaths per million at the same stage, Italy's 5.5, and Spain's 4.
Denmark is weighing whether to open its borders with Germany and Norway but not to Sweden. Several opposition parties, which have a majority in Denmark's parliament, have said the borders need to be opened to help the country's tourism industry but that the high death rate in Sweden was worrying.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2452018]Easy to look up. Or use Bloomberg or Fact set. I doubt you even know what they are.[/QUOTE]I'm curious if any of these financial software is free. If not, is it one time charged or annual subscription? How much does it cost? Can anyone just download them? What do they provide that Yahoo Finance doesn't cover? Which one would you use or recommend?
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2452440]I'm curious if any of these financial software is free. If not, is it one time charged or annual subscription? How much does it cost? Can anyone just download them? What do they provide that Yahoo Finance doesn't cover? Which one would you use or recommend?[/QUOTE]Sorry, it was a bit of a showing off on my part, my apologies. I said those words because Ho is constantly engaging in his absurd Japan chest thumping and insulting other members about their education which is galling as he writes borderline nonsensical stuff. Coming to those two specific software, no they are not free. Both cost north of $20 grand for annual subscription. Invariably, your employer would pay for it if your job requires using those software tools. I currently use one of them, have used both in the past and in my view, Yahoo Finance is just fine for most regular investors and one needs Bloomberg or Factset only if you are financial markets or related areas as part of your employment.
Bloomberg is available on app stores (Android and IOs) for mobile downloads and even the free version is absolutely awesome and very useful. I think Factset May be too but I have only used desktop professional paid version in my past.
[QUOTE=Clodius1;2452425]Link to DW article about permanent closures here.
[URL]https://www.dw.com/en/german-lawmakers-call-for-buying-sex-to-be-made-permanently-illegal/a-53504221?maca=en-EMail-sharing[/URL][/QUOTE]I would not say bad news yet. There are always haters who want to prevent action between two consenting adults behind closed doors.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2452454]I would not say bad news yet. There are always haters who want to prevent action between two consenting adults behind closed doors.[/QUOTE]I don't think that Germany will adopt the Nordic model and expect business to return to normal once social distancing measures end -- probably in a couple of months at most. There is just too much money pouring into Germany from the sex industry for them to do something so stupid.
If it did happen, all the girls will just move to Austria, Switzerland, Spain and Holland. Don't you think Germans know that?
Right. And how many lawmakers make up the body of the government? 16 wrote a letter. How many then did not take part in the letter?
[QUOTE=Turgid;2452454]I would not say bad news yet. There are always haters who want to prevent action between two consenting adults behind closed doors.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2452268][I]Haut les coeurs![/I] I checked the stats and yesterday the total deaths went from 28,239 to 28,022 -- a rise of only -0. 77%.
When I first read that, I was thrilled, but on second thoughts I'm not sure I like the idea of Coronavirus victims bashing their way out of coffins and shambling around Notre Dame at night, getting very bitey, etc. Believe me, sometimes death is the better option.[/QUOTE]28022 deaths on Tuesday, 28132 today, around 100 per day, in hospitals and old people residences, and you add about 7000 people, doctors preferred to let die quietly in their bed at home, with family around them, even with mask, because they were too weak and sick to be saved. 90% deaths are older than 65 yo. I keep on trusting french medical staff, because these bad figures have explanations. Nurses with low earning are to be thank, when Sanofi boss should be careful not to fall like Louis XVI, even we will check vaccine before using, not to kill too many, we don't follow crazy Trump.
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2452460]I don't think that Germany will adopt the Nordic model and expect business to return to normal once social distancing measures end -- probably in a couple of months at most. There is just too much money pouring into Germany from the sex industry for them to do something so stupid.
If it did happen, all the girls will just move to Austria, Switzerland, Spain and Holland. Don't you think Germans know that?[/QUOTE]Do you think German politics care much about Romanians and where they go? Most of this business money go to Romania, and bit to Bulgaria, when I visit a club, I would say I give 50/60 to Germany and 200/300 to Romania. Brothels are nothing for money for powerful Germany and also nothing for tourism. Bavaria which is the most touristic, is nothing for brothels. Higher rates for girls business in Austria, Switzerland and even Spain.
[QUOTE=MrHo;2452241]Well some low educated mentioned about national debt, so I explained what is going on. Again we are the only G7 nation who can print our own money at our will owning our own central bank ourselves and our bond is solely backed by japanese yen so we decide, this is most important when it comes to country management. We wanted that after ww2 and we appeal to interest of USA and we managed to convince USA who are our best friend and ally.
As for people. This is the system and you are half true, Japanese government sees citizen as foot soldiers LOL this is reality of it if you look deep into what is going on, it is going on due to immigration though, someone mentioned about decrease in population and this is problem in all G7 nations, people are smarter so don't make kids, so most G7 nations went for immigration long ago beside Japan, but we too are opening our door, but we are learning from mistakes of EU immigration and we are trying to choose better. But people live good here, there is no poverty almost in Japan, I mean anyone who has been here know that we rarely have homeless and if there are it is by choice..[/QUOTE]Maybe I don't understand well, but when 1500 USD are close to minimum salary in France, you can't live good in France, nor in Germany nor US with only 1500 USD per month, you can't live in Paris, London, Mainhattan with so low money, maybe in Bucharest, and life is less expensive in Germany than in France and much less tax and charge. When I finished school, quite a bit ago, my first full time job which was my passion, was better paid and I could rebuild a RS500 which was crashed and alone, but I fell in love, rebuilding her and kept her for 25 years and 3 girlfriends who were jealous about her. When H3 engine was really tired, then I enjoyed so much rodeo girl, real passion, despite crashes, but rebuilt her when expert told she is dead, I give you what she worth. Yes, give me, but she is not dead because I love her too much. 1500 USD would not even be enough for credit for flat I bought, how could I have my life with such tip, fortunately I make at least 5 times and I need, and if I was still motivated for somebody, working more, but I don't need, I m sure I could make nearly 10 times, but I don't need money for when I will die. I know guys who spend this per day in FKK land and are there 6 days per week. We really don't have same standards and way and level of life. I don't care about Sanofi running for vaccine, I m only interested by level of life, and I work to live as I like, not working more because I don't need, but I worked outside under virus, to save my job.
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2452460]I don't think that Germany will adopt the Nordic model and expect business to return to normal once social distancing measures end -- probably in a couple of months at most. There is just too much money pouring into Germany from the sex industry for them to do something so stupid.
If it did happen, all the girls will just move to Austria, Switzerland, Spain and Holland. Don't you think Germans know that?[/QUOTE]Spot on. It won't happen. German economists are too bright to allow the loss of a fairly unique position in the market.
[QUOTE=Clodius1;2452425]Link to DW article about permanent closures here.
[URL]https://www.dw.com/en/german-lawmakers-call-for-buying-sex-to-be-made-permanently-illegal/a-53504221?maca=en-EMail-sharing[/URL][/QUOTE]You always have some politicians who are like this in every nation, but it is only minority. They may regulate it further, but it won't die.
Even it does, mongers are mortal, we just migrate to next country, which are Switzerland and Austria.
In the worst case, I hear there is a promise land called Brazil on the other side, deep in amazonian jungle, there is a final promise land LOL!
Mongers are mortal being, we just migrate LOL!
[QUOTE=Sebastiane;2452460]I don't think that Germany will adopt the Nordic model and expect business to return to normal once social distancing measures end -- probably in a couple of months at most. There is just too much money pouring into Germany from the sex industry for them to do something so stupid.
If it did happen, all the girls will just move to Austria, Switzerland, Spain and Holland. Don't you think Germans know that?[/QUOTE]I hope you are right and I think you are too. I just don't know to what extent economic benefits factored into the decision to allow prostitution at scale in Germany relative to other neighboring countries. I don't know the amount of direct tax benefits and number of jobs tied to this business directly or indirectly. It probably is not insubstantial. On the other hand, other countries in the region can also open their countries to prostitution to the same extent that DE did but they haven't and that is because money is not the only factor that goes into this formula. And we simply don't know which way the political wind is blowing in DE at the moment on this issue.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2452454]I would not say bad news yet. There are always haters who want to prevent action between two consenting adults behind closed doors.[/QUOTE]I hope that you are right and that ice bears can return to DE FKK. For me, I enjoy visiting DE for many reasons. I like the people there, the excellent food, the safe streets etc. But if FKK is closed for good, I will have to chase after die madchen elsewhere, Holland, Wien, Swiss etc.
Hi guys!
Nice to meet you all, I'm new to the forum. I'd like to ask you if someone know about the situation of stripclubs in Sofia, are they open? Or will they open in the near future? Thank you!
Spot on. It won't happen. German economists are too bright to allow the loss of a fairly unique position in the market.
Need to have a look where the money in going: concerning the girls mostly outside Germany, a lot of FKK, brothels are owned by the rocker gangs, the German government is putting a lot of pressure on them in the recent years. A lot of foreign visitors are already on business trip when they go to the prostitutes, therefor no big impact on the hotel industry, for the local it is changing nothing. Not so sure things will return to normal and even if any cluster will happen in a FKK or brothel for sure they will close for long time.
[QUOTE=Faburi;2452516]Hi guys!
Nice to meet you all, I'm new to the forum. I'd like to ask you if someone know about the situation of stripclubs in Sofia, are they open? Or will they open in the near future? Thank you![/QUOTE]Sofia as in Bulgaria?
If so, check out Bulgaria threat, I am sure there is. Try hitting Europe section and scroll down to find Bulgaria, it maybe more helpful to you if you mean Sofia in Bulgaria.
If it is Sofia strip club in Germany if there is one. Nobody knows beside German government when it will be open, even though many forum posters like to share the information only German government would know and decide, but sex forum poster seems to think this is some kind of free mason level secret society called international sex forum LOL!
[QUOTE=Faburi;2452516]Hi guys!
Nice to meet you all, I'm new to the forum. I'd like to ask you if someone know about the situation of stripclubs in Sofia, are they open? Or will they open in the near future? Thank you![/QUOTE]If you are talking Bulgaria, you have missed the forum thread by a couple countries. If you do go there, I say avoid The Fetish Club. It is about paying way too much for cheap Champaign while trying to get you into a closet with a lady for even more charges. If you do go, and spend enough, they may give you a ride back to your hotel. That's what I heard from a friend.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2452534]Spot on. It won't happen. German economists are too bright to allow the loss of a fairly unique position in the market.
Need to have a look where the money in going: concerning the girls mostly outside Germany, a lot of FKK, brothels are owned by the rocker gangs, the German government is putting a lot of pressure on them in the recent years. A lot of foreign visitors are already on business trip when they go to the prostitutes, therefor no big impact on the hotel industry, for the local it is changing nothing. Not so sure things will return to normal and even if any cluster will happen in a FKK or brothel for sure they will close for long time.[/QUOTE]Colloseum is owned by bikers I think, or whatever that place is called now. Rest, I cannot think of any mega clubs that are owned by bikers beside they do send in some girls in, which I welcome.
[QUOTE=Faburi;2452516].... the situation of stripclubs in Sofia, are they open? Or will they open in the near future?[/QUOTE]Welcome in the section Europe / Bulgaria ..... Sofia.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2452534]...... a lot of foreign visitors are already on business trip ... go to the prostitutes ... no big impact on the hotel industry, for the local it is changing nothing ...[/QUOTE]That's currently a perfect fit for German politics to shut down the FKK and club area in complete. But a new greyzone will be created producing new battle fields for reallocation of assets between the participants in the background. Within the last two decades the rising-up of FKK and sauna clubs created a kind of coat lying on top for the bad sex industry as there was the idea that this should be the best way to handle with P6 in its own closed microcosm located far away from civil life as located outside a big city or even in the hinterland. This was working well until 2010 as the sexworkers in the first decade of this century also saw a chance of new independency. Matching civil life as a hairdresser or medical assistant spending the weekend or the holidays in a club to earn some more money. This was the decade women came over to make their money in Germany buying an apartment in their homecountry (Poland, CZ, Hungary).
The new mobility by members of the European Union resulted in a flooding of German clubs by Romanian women. At least three times per year that each television broadcasting channel produced a documentary on that issue in order to raise attention for criminal aspects. Romanian women meanwhile represent at least 80% of German club scene. And this exploitation has to be stopped as a political task. In addition the health care system in Germany needs new staff which can be recruited that way some may think. A pretty idea, but the ones who come over to Germany to work in the sex industry also recognize that the amount of money to make this way in few years can be much more compared to the salary to earn in a civil job.
[QUOTE=Faburi;2452516]Hi guys!
Nice to meet you all, I'm new to the forum. I'd like to ask you if someone know about the situation of stripclubs in Sofia, are they open? Or will they open in the near future? Thank you![/QUOTE]In which lander is Sofia? Bavaria close to Garmisch-Partenkirchen? But I know can find many Bulgarians with average teeth in RTC, can see cars at 10 am, working as taxi, but not written taxi on car, maybe Uber from Sofia. Long drive.
Europe should decide on mid June for free moving inside EU for Europeans. Austria may be first for business, but can t compete with Paris with street girls with no mask seen since 12 May. I can't understand how Police let these girls work, even prostitution is not illegal in France. But clients can be prosecuted. No risk when going to escorts and much better hygiene.
When Trump claims to take chloroquine for breakfast, french doctors except one decided chloroquine have no real efficiency to cure from virus but can kill many from heart attack, maybe could help US, when from ex communist Slovenia Melania Knaus seems much more clever than him, when a model can be more clever than most powerful country president. Reasons to worry about crazy. US should be far over 100 thousand deaths, even mostly Afro Americabns, before elections.
[QUOTE=Clodius1;2452515]I hope that you are right and that ice bears can return to DE FKK. For me, I enjoy visiting DE for many reasons. I like the people there, the excellent food, the safe streets etc. But if FKK is closed for good, I will have to chase after die madchen elsewhere, Holland, Wien, Swiss etc.[/QUOTE]I have pursued our hobby all over the world. Prior to 2008 Geylang in Singapore was my favorite hobbying site with its streets being a smorgasbord of hundreds nay thousands of delights from South East Asia, then there was a shut down in 2009. Buenos Aires then became my favorite with choices of the most beautiful women in the world to be had all over the city then there was a shut down around 2011/12. Then Changping in China became my favorite with thousands of Chinese beauties available for the taking in saunas and KTVs then the Chinese government shut that down in 2014. Then German FKKs, which I had been visiting since early 2000's became my favorite until my last visit in March this year. Will it continue to be my favorite? Time will tell.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2452622]When Trump claims to take chloroquine for breakfast, french doctors except one decided chloroquine have no real efficiency to cure from virus but can kill many from heart attack, maybe could help US, when from ex communist Slovenia Melania Knaus seems much more clever than him, when a model can be more clever than most powerful country president. Reasons to worry about crazy. US should be far over 100 thousand deaths, even mostly Afro Americabns, before elections.[/QUOTE]According to real qualified doctors, not crazy, Chinese killer virus seem strong around 10 Celsius degrees, less under 5 or above 25, can explain some figures and fortunately for Africa, when south America and Brazil are falling in trouble now, when Autumn for them. Brazil is competing with US now.
There always been opponents to prostitution or any kind of sex work. This is nothing new. Besides it's only 16 MPs (or claimed to be by the media) that are calling for it. Not sure if it's all 16 MPs that want to ban prostitution.
[QUOTE=Clodius1;2452515]I hope that you are right and that ice bears can return to DE FKK. For me, I enjoy visiting DE for many reasons. I like the people there, the excellent food, the safe streets etc. But if FKK is closed for good, I will have to chase after die madchen elsewhere, Holland, Wien, Swiss etc.[/QUOTE]Yes. There are Thai, Indian, Italian, and Turkish (Kurd) restaurants in Germany. I asked the owner of an Indian restaurant in Hamburg about the northern German people. He said "cool". He had been in Hamburg for 20 years and had no German friends. He did not mention crime or street traffic.
Let me name a few of, ehmm, his well advertised attributes: Tiny Hands, Egotistical, Arrogant, Deflectionist, Delusional, Issues recognizing truth from delusion, pays lots of money for prostitutes, Superiority Complex, crap writer and speaker of the English language, offensive, denies reality, thinks everyone loves him, continually insults the lady who openly criticized him. And I'm sure I've missed some. I was sure there could only be one. Then we elected Trump president.
When Trump claims to take chloroquine for breakfast, french doctors except one decided chloroquine have no real efficiency to cure from virus but can kill many from heart attack, maybe could help US, when from ex communist Slovenia Melania Knaus seems much more clever than him, when a model can be more clever than most powerful country president. Reasons to worry about crazy. US should be far over 100 thousand deaths, even mostly Afro Americabns, before elections.
Most of the travellers including me to africa are taking this medicine for decades without any side effects, all the Indian medical staff is taking it, widely used in south Korea, China and all in France, just it is a cheap medicine no interest for the health industry in collusion with some politics to push that solution.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2452793]Then we elected Trump president.[/QUOTE]Please remove "me" from that "we". I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid! As another poster on this site noted, why doesn't he go ahead and double his dosage of the chloroquine? After all. What's he got to lose? Ha!
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2452796]When Trump claims to take chloroquine for breakfast, french doctors except one decided chloroquine have no real efficiency to cure from virus but can kill many from heart attack, maybe could help US, when from ex communist Slovenia Melania Knaus seems much more clever than him, when a model can be more clever than most powerful country president. Reasons to worry about crazy. US should be far over 100 thousand deaths, even mostly Afro Americabns, before elections.
Most of the travellers including me to africa are taking this medicine for decades without any side effects, all the Indian medical staff is taking it, widely used in south Korea, China and all in France, just it is a cheap medicine no interest for the health industry in collusion with some politics to push that solution.[/QUOTE]OK, there is absolutely NO evidence that the use of Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19 is safe and effective. This is because the presence of viruses or other infections can change the side effects of a drug. This editorial explains it very well: [URL]https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1432.long[/URL] . '. wide use of hydroxychloroquine will expose some patients to rare but potentially fatal harms, including serious cutaneous adverse reactions, fulminant hepatic failure, and ventricular arrhythmias (especially when prescribed with azithromycin) 27; overdose is hazardous and difficult to treat.'
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2451902]First, we talk about REGISTERED deaths. Sweden (and Belgium) are good on identifying the real death reason.
Different countries count Corona-deaths in different ways.
In other countries, deaths by Corona are obviously underestimated.
And here is the real reason to many deaths in Stockholm.
Second, most deaths in Stockholm are people from poor immigration ghettos, where people do not understand Swedish and have not been able to assimilate information about Corona.
On the other hand, immunity in Stockholm is now very high - well prepared for "the second wave".[/QUOTE]What do you mean by "very high"? Any studies available, or just a "guess"? In any case you need up to 70% herd immunity, I doubt you will have that.
And trying to put the high death rates in Sweden on poor immigrants would be laughable, if not very sad, when even locally produced data show that it was essentially in care homes. And elderly people left exposed to wide virus circulation.
Swedes don't ALWAYS get it right, in spite of what some of them would like to believe. They even messed up the way they manage (d) immigration, and now, compared to their neighbours, Danmark, Finland, Norway, they look terribly bad, to the point that they will be excluded form the free tracel Scandinavian bubble. So you will continue frolicking in Stockholm's parks, but won't be allowed anywhere else during the summer!
Good luck my friend!
But we have deaths, not from virus, but killed by chloroquine with heart attack. Real facts, maybe French have more fragile heart than others. I won t take with my intense sports with heart in red zone for hours, sometimes under more than 35 Celsius degrees, in Bonette, Agnel, Izoard.
A bit like Viagra, be careful when You are not doctor, some medicine can kill.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2452837]What do you mean by "very high"? Any studies available, or just a "guess"? In any case you need up to 70% herd immunity, I doubt you will have that.
And trying to put the high death rates in Sweden on poor immigrants would be laughable, if not very sad, when even locally produced data show that it was essentially in care homes. And elderly people left exposed to wide virus circulation.
Swedes don't ALWAYS get it right, in spite of what some of them would like to believe. They even messed up the way they manage (d) immigration, and now, compared to their neighbours, Danmark, Finland, Norway, they look terribly bad, to the point that they will be excluded form the free tracel Scandinavian bubble. So you will continue frolicking in Stockholm's parks, but won't be allowed anywhere else during the summer!
Good luck my friend![/QUOTE]I've noticed that you got a inferiority complex going on but excess deaths shows that countries like Spain and Italy aren't even close to report the correct number of Covid-19 related deaths. Unlike Sweden and Belgium. In country after country the immigrant communities are showing a higher degree of mortality, that's a fact. Well, the point is that Swedish economy is doing much better than our neighbors. Too many countries have butchered their economies, 40 million newly unemployed in the US and the Mediterranean countries are now back begging EU and the North for more money. They've never been able to take care of themselves, like big ass children.
Sweden got it right as usual, better economy and statistics than Spain, Italy, Belgium, France and the UK despite not having any lockdown and the fact that many of those countries are grossly underreporting the number of deaths.
Swedes could easily go to Portugal if they wanted to, you should stop hating and start reading the news.
[URL]https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/travel/articles/1284355/Portugal-holidays-2020-coronavirus-travel-advice-fco-news-latest-algarve-Azores-Madeira/amp[/URL]
[QUOTE=Dreams;2452837]What do you mean by "very high"? Any studies available, or just a "guess"? In any case you need up to 70% herd immunity, I doubt you will have that.
[/QUOTE]Salaam Dreams and Arnold. The [B]herd immunity threshold[/B] for coronavirus is generally quoted as 60%. But a recent model from Swedish and UK scientists found it could be just 43%. There's a lot of doubt. Wikipedia says 29 - 74%.
I guess in Stockholm they have 20-30% infected by now. It will be interesting to see what effect that has on the R0 number, and if Sweden will end up better than its locked-down neighbors.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2452834]OK, there is absolutely NO evidence that the use of Chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine for Covid-19 is safe and effective. This is because the presence of viruses or other infections can change the side effects of a drug. This editorial explains it very well: [URL]https://www.bmj.com/content/369/bmj.m1432.long[/URL] . '. wide use of hydroxychloroquine will expose some patients to rare but potentially fatal harms, including serious cutaneous adverse reactions, fulminant hepatic failure, and ventricular arrhythmias (especially when prescribed with azithromycin) 27; overdose is hazardous and difficult to treat.'[/QUOTE]In France, chloroquine is not considered efficient versus covid, and many health accidents after taking. Quite dangerous if taken like a bonbon.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2452837]What do you mean by "very high"? Any studies available, or just a "guess"? In any case you need up to 70% herd immunity, I doubt you will have that.
And trying to put the high death rates in Sweden on poor immigrants would be laughable, if not very sad, when even locally produced data show that it was essentially in care homes. And elderly people left exposed to wide virus circulation.
Swedes don't ALWAYS get it right, in spite of what some of them would like to believe. They even messed up the way they manage (d) immigration, and now, compared to their neighbours, Danmark, Finland, Norway, they look terribly bad, to the point that they will be excluded form the free tracel Scandinavian bubble. So you will continue frolicking in Stockholm's parks, but won't be allowed anywhere else during the summer!
Good luck my friend![/QUOTE]Yes, with no confined, old people are in danger in Stockholm, with many deaths, but in France, 90% deaths are more than 65 yo. No proof, recovering give immunity, according to French doctors and very average reliability for tests because depend when you are tested about catching, if you are not infected yet.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2452932]Salaam Dreams and Arnold. The [B]herd immunity threshold[/B] for coronavirus is generally quoted as 60%. But a recent model from Swedish and UK scientists found it could be just 43%. There's a lot of doubt. Wikipedia says 29 - 74%.
I guess in Stockholm they have 20-30% infected by now. It will be interesting to see what effect that has on the R0 number, and if Sweden will end up better than its locked-down neighbors.[/QUOTE]Relation of deaths to # of inhabitants in Sweden is 3 x as high as in Germany. Trending worse.
No heard immunity around the corner there as well. Former forecasts of high percentages of infections (30%) for Stockholm have been reduced to around 7% max.
RN.
In France, chloroquine is not considered efficient versus covid, and many health accidents after taking. Quite dangerous if taken like a bonbon.
For how many years we are taking it to fight malaria, personally I took it at least 10 times, all the India medical staff are taking it, widely used in China and Korea, have a look at the notice of aspirin not sure you will ever take one.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2452932]Salaam Dreams and Arnold. The [B]herd immunity threshold[/B] for coronavirus is generally quoted as 60%. But a recent model from Swedish and UK scientists found it could be just 43%. There's a lot of doubt. Wikipedia says 29 - 74%.[/QUOTE]Since we are all speculating around here I'll throw in my guess here as well. I think herd immunity threshold depends on where you live. In a rural, more remote area, the threshold can be much lower than in a big city where you mix with hundreds different people every day (public transit, large office buildings, shopping malls, etc).
So far all studies about general population rate of infection have found that less than 10% people were infected so far, most were quoting 5-7% (Sweden, France, Germany, Spain, Italy, US, Switzerland). That includes studies done specifically in areas where there were many reported infections.
[QUOTE=RogueNation;2452944]Relation of deaths to # of inhabitants in Sweden is 3 x as high as in Germany. Trending worse.
No heard immunity around the corner there as well. Former forecasts of high percentages of infections (30%) for Stockholm have been reduced to around 7% max.
RN.[/QUOTE]Statistics on REPORTED Corona-deaths in Sweden comapring with other countries is WORTHLESS.
It simply depends on that different countries identify real reasons to deaths in different ways.
Here, Belgium and Sweden are top countries since they identify the death reason - other countries (like France) do not.
The only way to calculate Corona-death are as follows:
Number of dead in April 2020 divided by average number of dead in April 2015-19.
Then you get how many percent died more than normal.
And this figure in Sweden is not higher 2020 than 1993, when there was a severe influence.
Comapring period February - May in Sweden 2020 with 2018, then only 1700 more dead people in 2020!
Almost all of them multi-dicesease and average age of 81!
Immunity is much higher than 7 % in Sweden and Stockholm. The Swedish Government has simply only poor test kit to identify antibodies.
At least 50 percent at my work place have had Corona - and it was like a cold for most of them.
Average age of "corona-identified" deaths is 81 years in Sweden.
Corona is only dangerous for ol people with underlying diseases.
Report from Stockholm.
And there is a real free life here.
And people do not die in the streets as some people at this forum seem to believe.
And only wait for the second wave. TSUNAMI in France and BREAZE in Sweden
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453046]And people do not die in the streets as some poeple from France at this forum seem to believe.[/QUOTE]Only one please, most people in France don't live in their own reality.
I am not going to respond to anyone directly here and not aim any of the following assertions at anyone, it is just an illustration of some collected analysis from sources and not mere hearsay or anecdotal evidence.
This is a global forum where a lot of people are accustomed to travel and although not everyone here might have an elite education or be very articulate I am surprised at the nationalist chest thumping and to say it kindly the lack of a broad perspective when it comes to discussing the Covid19 pandemic. I was of two minds writing this, some of the responses I have read lack any intellectual rigor whatsoever and can not be construed of as rational arguments, but I have decided to respond nevertheless.
So why has Sweden become an issue of debate here, because it is the sole country in Europe that has advocated against an enforced lock down. So either Sweden knows something every other country in the Europe and wider world, with the exception of wonderfully rational politicians like Bolsanaro, does not know. Or it has chosen a questionable path that even its Nordic neighbors have rejected. The simple assertion that Sweden is right and everyone else is wrong is highly dubious, we will know at the very end of this but the evidence to date is not compelling.
- Arguments to dispute the assertions I have read on this forum.
1. We are not sacrificing our economy that also entails a cost, yes it does, but many countries have chosen this cost and not lightly, this represents a weak argument since in Sweden the economic cost of this pandemic is high anyhow, in fact it is in line with the contraction of the Eurozone and its Nordic neighbors, so if anyone was avoiding a lock down to defray the economic costs, this has not worked.
[URL]https://www.politico.eu/article/swedens-cant-escape-economic-hit-with-covid-19-light-touch/[/URL]
2. We are going to reach herd immunity faster and avoid a second wave, this is in fact possible, but to date there is no evidence for this. Arguments like half the people have had it and we can't measure it are not serious assertions to base policies on, I at one point thought I had had it in March, however you can not be sure and I won't take the risk to get it.
The study in Sweden we have says that Stockholm is far from herd immunity.
[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/21/just-7-per-cent-of-stockholm-had-covid-19-antibodies-by-end-of-april-study-sweden-coronavirus[/URL]
In fact the scientists that had predicted higher levels of herd immunity are surprised and said that their model has some seriously false assumptions behind it. Saying you know this is wrong isn't an argument to base serious policy on, it could be wrong and you could also win the lottery tomorrow.
3. The mortality rate is lower than other countries with a lock down. This is increasingly wrong with time.
I had said earlier that certain countries are in different phases of the pandemic, obviously Italy being ahead of the game, and without a lockdown the numbers would increase in Sweden. The fairest comparison would be with countries with similar population densities and climates, ie its Nordic neighbors, I don't think I have to quote any statistics here, they are all too obvious, but the mortality rate and rate of increasing cases in Sweden is many times higher than those countries, there is no doubt about it.
There are many factors as to why a country would have a higher Covid 19 mortality rate, higher population densities and high levels of vitamin D deficiency tend to be a factor. About the vitamin D deficiency, the Nordic countries do not have it but the Mediterranean countries, ie Spain and Italy do, this explains quite a bit.
First the argument was that Sweden had a lower mortality rate than many countries, ie the Netherlands (the most densely populated country in Europe), but now it has supassed the Netherlands and many other countries. The latest argument is that only 5 countries now surpass it. Yes some countries have down worse with a belated or late lock down.
Let us take the UK, this country has had an enormously disastrous and inefficient response to the pandemic, it a long with other countries, was late to respond, so nothing to be proud of here and furthermore England, just England, is even more densely populated than the Netherlands. Italy was first on the scene in Europe and represents a special case. Having a mortality rate lower than these examples is not a compelling argument to say that the national strategy in Sweden was correct. The best contrast would be with similar countries.
4. Only Sweden and Belgium count deaths accurately and in fact the mortality rate is lower than other countries that under count. I have read no evidence of the methodology in Sweden to support this, every country is under counting its deaths with the possible exception of Belgium. The reason is simple, Belgium attributes all non verified causes of death to Covid 19, so it is probably the only country that is over counting, as far as I know Sweden does not do this, does anyone have a credible source to counter this?
I am in fact disappointed that higher levels of immunity are not present and it would have been better for all of us in fact if this strategy was working, but there is not enough, or any, convincing statistical evidence to back this up yet. Therefore this blind sighted confidence in this unique policy is misplaced at present.
The only remaining argument I have heard is that the second wave will be far milder than other countries, that we will have to wait and see, however if it is not, than many people have died in vain. By the way, Herd Immunity was a strategy considered by quite a few European countries, notably the UK, and rejected due to the projected death toll.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453046]Statistics on REPORTED Corona-deaths in Sweden comapring with other countries is WORTHLESS.
It simply depends on that different countries identify real reasons to deaths in different ways.
Here, Belgium and Sweden are top countries since they identify the death reason - other countries (like France) do not.
The only way to calculate Corona-death are as follows:
Number of dead in April 2020 divided by average number of dead in April 2015-19.
Then you get how many percent died more than normal.[/QUOTE]In France, 90% deaths are older than 65 yo and 80% older than 75 yo, so a healthy, fit French under 60 yo, even better if a woman and smoker don t have much risk of big problem about virus, but can give big problem to beloved relatives. Since 11 May, our R0 didn't explode, I think we can judge at the end of the month after more than 15 days and even better on mid June after 30 days, to decide to open borders, but killer virus may not be so strong now when 30 Celsius degrees in Paris, many French want to feel sun on them, to go to swim in sea, to get better mood, to feel free. I would like to go to free ride to feel to fly like a free bird. But FKK land is a real playfield to spread with many old and fat, and when see what happen in South America entering in Winter with lower temperatures, let s wait for next November. Highest deaths rate in Stockholm than in Paris, but on NYC level, when Stockholm don t have same density for people than Paris nor NYC, Swedish made their choice, like NL, I would have made the same, even confined saved more than 60000 life, double than deaths in France, so on this confined point, our politics were right, but not about economic crisis with many unemployment.
Unfortunately, knowledge about statistcs in this forum is zero.
Continuing comparing apples with pies.
People refer to investigations about antibodies and Corona-deaths with no value at all.
Only statistics on "excess deaths" are valid. And the real conclusion will be known after the second wave.
If anyone really thinks that one can not become immune after Covid-19, then there will neither be any vaccine that works.
Comparing death rates in Sweden with neighboring countries at this moment is nonsense, since Sweden must have XX times more infected (and immune) than Norway, Denmark and Finland that have applied a total premature lock-down strategy.
People claim that "the Swedish strategy is dubious " and "Sweden makes an experiment by NOT locking down". (Sweden is not the only country, also Belarus).
But in reality, it is the opposite.
European countries that lock-down their economies undertake the biggest experiment in modern history.
Amazing that people don't know how similar pandemies have been handled in the past.
During the Asian and HongKong-influences in the 1950's and 1960's there was no lock down whatsoever.
And the economies recovered very fast after the pandemies.
This lock-down is something completely NEW and a real EXPERIMENT.
This time, it will take very long time for economies to recover, due to the stupid lock-down strategy.
No, Sweden does not know anything that other countries do not know. We simply do what is normal in such a situation.
Other European countries have swallowed the "fake news" from China that the whole population must be isolated to handle the pandemic.
Bull-shit.
When most Euroopean countries locked down their economies, the risk groups of Covid-19 were already identified and known world-wide: Old people with underlying diseases.
Most countries decided to isolate their young populations anyway! Not a very clever strategy.
Yes, Sweden did two BIG MISTAKES:
1. Older people in retirement homes were NOT isolated (Instead secondary schools and universities were closed!) Elderly people at these homes continued to meet 10-20 different assistants per week. This is death group No. 1 in Sweden.
2. Older people in immigrant areas were not informed about Covid-19, because they do not understand Swedish. (Reflecting the disastrous Swedish immigration and integration policies). This is death group No. 2 in Sweden.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2452823]Please remove "me" from that "we". I may be crazy, but I'm not stupid! As another poster on this site noted, why doesn't he go ahead and double his dosage of the chloroquine? After all. What's he got to lose? Ha![/QUOTE]I'm not American and unfortunately in France we don't have often a president who learned arithmetic for economy at school, but Trump and Bolzonaro are same crazy with same results. I may not be clever enough or maybe my social side, but compare to Obama, just Niagara falls, from my point of view, when Trump is same ready for anything than WGs. Maybe more dangerous than Putin. Can t understand telling about pride when just behaving ridiculous. For sure, not a good image for US in Western Europe, maybe for Japan about China. I also don't understand about still free weapons when no more Navajos with arrows, and crazy shooting every day people, most often Black, like Brunswick Georgia. When no more far west.
What works for Sweden would not necessarily work for other countries. One, Sweden only has three cities with a population of over 300 K. Two, Sweden is a rich country and with low levels of inequality, in terms of money and access to medical care. This does not hold true for countries like Brazil. The population of Sao Paulo (12 million urban, 21 million metro) is larger than the entire country of Sweden (10 million). Poor people in Brazil do not have the option to social distance nor do they have the savings to sit at and home and reduce their exposure. In earlier forecasts, the Swedish authorities predicted 33 percent immunity by early May, but that figure currently sits at 7 percent in Stockholm. This suggests that Swedish have been fairly good at practicing social distancing, despite there being no "official lockdown".
[QUOTE]Sweden's approach has been unique in that most people exhibit a sense of trust and duty toward their fellow gym-goers. He said that Sweden has a culture of being more conscientious about following the rules, a phenomenon Business Insider previously reported on.
"I don't think that Swedish gyms have had a radical approach to this situation, it's just that people are a bit more mindful and careful," he said. "It mostly comes down to gym-goers feeling that sense of social responsibility."
https://www.insider.com/what-its-like-gyms-in-sweden-where-lockdowns-never-happened-2020-5
[/QUOTE][QUOTE]Brazil's death toll meanwhile surged past 20,000 Thursday.
A closer look at the data raises questions about the widely held idea that COVID-19 is mainly dangerous for the elderly.
Of Brazil's victims, 69 percent were aged 60 or older, compared with 95 percent in Spain and Italy, according to official statistics.
The disparity is partly driven by the age of the overall populace: Just 13.6 percent of Brazil's population is 60 or older, compared to 25 percent in Spain and 28 percent in Italy.
https://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2020/05/22/in-brazil-covid-19-hitting-young-people-harder.html
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453070]Unfortunately, knowledge about statistcs in this forum is zero.
Continuing comparing apples with pies.
People refer to investigations about antibodies and Corona-deaths with no value at all.
Only statistics on "excess deaths" are valid. And the real conclusion will be known after the second wave.[/QUOTE]Excess deaths can only be observed after the virus has disappeared, not after a 'second wave, which nobody wants to happen. It is still relevant to compare deaths with covid-infected patients under an epidemiological and medical point of view.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453070]If anyone really thinks that one can not become immune after Covid-19, then there will neither be any vaccine that works.[/QUOTE]Virus may become attenuated (I. E. Weaker) like Spanish flu and remain in the population without the need of a vaccine. It may also disappear like with Sars. There are many ways in which a pandemic can end, not only through a vaccine, which remains the best and quickest way though!
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453070]People claim that "the Swedish strategy is dubious " and "Sweden makes an experiment by NOT locking down". (Sweden is not the only country, also Belarus)[/QUOTE]Let me understand here, you want to take Belarus as a credible example in support of the Swedish approach to the pandemic. Belarus? A country, whose president said he doesn't believe in the pandemic because, and I quote, 'he does not see Covid fly in the air'? Really Arnold?
In addition, the vulnerable groups are NOT only elderly people with underlying conditions, but also all other people with respiratory diseases (including Asthma, COPD, CF etc.) all those recovering from cancer treatment, people of all ages with cardiovascular and kidney conditions and I stopped here because the list would be too long. There was absolutely no way of knowing the most vulnerable groups at the beginning of the pandemic because it was a brand new virus and, even now, we still do not fully understand how it works. DO NOT SPREAD FAKE NEWS and listen to the experts.
Sweden have chosen to avoid the lockdown and they now have almost 4000 deaths (or 389 every 1 M people) after having done 20,000 tests every 1 M people. Other countries with similar population size like Czechia, which closed down very early in the epidemic, they have 29 deaths every 1 M people) after having done 36,000 tests every 1 M people.
Sweden has taken a gamble and now they are counting corpses.
I'm amazed that people can write about strategies against the Coronavirus without even mentioning the economy!
If the only single goal was to lower the number of deaths caused by see-19 all countries would still be in quarantine!
What Bolsonaro understands is that a lockdown would completely butcher the Brazilian economy! He's afraid of the consequences of a lockdown! He is looking one step further, being smarter, than people screaming in fear because of a virus. I'm extremely disappointed by the other political leaders. It will be rough for us in Nothern Europe, rougher for those in the South and a catastrophe for Brazil. 40 million unemployed in the US, but let's act as if there will be no consequences.
I've been reading comments that without a lockdown everyone will die or half of all people will die. Today we can easily dismiss those claims as scaremongering.
So how many would die? I don't know. No one knows. In Sweden we have 59 deaths among people under 50 years, is that much? I don't think so considering the consequences of a lockdown. This virus is killing the people that pretty much could die from anything.
I would love to blast our government for their incompetence, because they truly are incompetent, but no lockdown was a great and courageous decision to take. It's got nothing to do with nationalism, it was simply the right thing to do in my opinion.
In other countries people have too much of a sunk cost to admit or even entertain the thought that they might have been better off without a lockdown. That in combination with populistic politicians, the media and scared / dumb people lead to the acceptance of a lockdown.
As said, it's not about nationalism.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453070]Unfortunately, knowledge about statistcs in this forum is zero.
.[/QUOTE]With that post and all the wrongs in it you include yourself in your own statement.
[QUOTE=McGrath;2453093]With that post and all the wrongs in it you include yourself in your own statement.[/QUOTE]Exactly what I was thinking and more, including a lack of knowledge regarding both medical science and history. But, enough said already.
[QUOTE=McGrath;2453093]With that post and all the wrongs in it you include yourself in your own statement.[/QUOTE]
It is nothing wrong in that post.
I live in Stockholm and follow what happens here every day.
But people in this forum who DO NOT LIVE in Stockholm and who do not know what is going on here, seem to know more about Sweden than Swedish inhabitants.
Systematically referring to super-biased statistics.
And they do not know how to calculate "excess deaths".
And definitely do not understand what "the second wave" means.
Especially, they do not know what kind of mistakes the Swedish government did.
1. Not isolating people at retirement homes and 2. Not informing immigrant groups.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453099]It is nothing wrong in that post.
I live in Stockholm and follow what happens here every day.
But people in this forum who DO NOT LIVE in Stockholm and who do not know what is going on here, seem to know more about Sweden than Swedish inhabitants.
Systematically referring to super-biased statistics.
And they do not know how to calculate "excess deaths".
And definitely do not understand what "the second wave" means.
Especially, they do not know what kind of mistakes the Swedish government did.
1. Not isolating people at retirement homes and 2. Not informing immigrant groups.[/QUOTE]About one point, I would differ, I do know a lot about Stockholm, since I had lived there for over 3 years, but this was a long time ago. Your response is quite measured and temperate, however the arguments I have heard from others are really not rationale and are based upon certain tenets of faith. Well I am familiar with this blind faith and confidence which is inspired by nationalist feelings.
I would just gently say this, about comparing to neighboring countries with similar climates and population densities (Denmark's is a lot higher though) you can see what the differing mortality rates from a severe vs a very relaxed lock down could be, really the fairest test would be the exact same environment, but this is obviously not possible.
The level of immunity should be higher in societies which have a more relaxed or no lock down, however it seems that in every systematic test in every place these numbers are far lower than the proponents of herd immunity have advocated. Some studies say it is up to 20% in New York, that could only be the case given its very high urban density, it would be far lower in LOS Angeles (I know both cities quite well) given the lock down in both places, I these the North American lock downs are far less strict than the European ones.
I would expect Sweden to have more people who are immune, but thus far these numbers as verified by studies are still far too low and the prediction of herd immunity by June or August is premature.
The assertion that these tests are flawed and many more people are surely immune is unfortunately just a matter of faith in the absence of hard evidence.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2453106] the North American lock downs are far less strict than the European ones.
I would expect Sweden to have more people who are immune, but thus far these numbers as verified by studies are still far too low and the prediction of herd immunity by June or August is premature..[/QUOTE]History will tell as it always does, and the winners usually get to write the story. Lockdown or no lockdown is the question and the answer is simple. The lockdown slowed the virus spread, allowing governments, hospitals and medical providers to become more prepared. This came at great expense and is delaying the spread of the virus. Not locking down let's the virus spread and in vulnerable sections of society the cost of life is higher. The reall story will arrive if / when a safe vaccination is available. If this happens this summer, then lockdown proponents will celebrate their success in saving millions of lives. If the cavaccine doesn't arrive for another 10 years the chapter will already have been written and many countries around the world will have suffered great economic loss. Of course, the antivacs groups will stand in protest, saying the government is poisoning their children.
First of all, everything about economics is wrong in that post. Sweden doesn't gain any GDP towards other countries because they are a little more open for a few months. I first came to Frankfurt because of the banks were there so I know some things about this.
Sweden is a small open economy with a floating currency, in the long view, how the rest of the world goes Sweden will go.
And the notion that Sweden is the only country that can count dead people the right way is ridicoulus.
Not nationalistic.
It is about economic rationality.
It was early well known which people were in the risk group of Covid-19: old people with underlying diseases like hypertension, diabetes, heart- and lung-problems.
A clever strategy would be to keep society open and focus on protection of the risk groups.
Anyway, politicians like Macron chose to isolate young and healthy people and slaughter the whole society, because "other countries did the same" or "China told us to lock-down".
"If all others do the same, then this strategy must be the correct one".
But here, China has a Hidden Agenda. China wants US and Europe to lock down, in order to get an economic lead.
Many European and US firms - as in the automobile sector - will soon wake up and find themselves in a real bad position.
There is absolutely no previous experience of total lock-down and the consequences of such a non-clever strategy.
Anyway, this extremely risky strategy has been applied.
It is not possible to pause the whole economy like an X-Box game, and then believe that everything will work as usual.
Important. Unemployment will cause deaths too, in the form of suicides, mental health and alcoholism. Often people with many remaining years to live will die. But these deaths are more abstract.
As I have written, Swedish Government made severe mistakes by not isolating risk groups at retirement homes.
Visits to elderly people at retirement homes were forbidden on April 1.
Secondary schools and universities - with no risk groups - were closed on March 17 ! Compare!
Sports arenas were closed even earlier.
When Swedish people returned from Austria and Italy in February, those working in Government administration (e.g. Departments, Central bank and different authorites) were sent home.
But returning people who worked at hospitals or retirement homes were not sent home! Not very clever.
I do not have any faith whatsoever for these immunity-tests performed in Sweden.
Huge numbers have been sick with Corona-symptoms in the period February-May in Sweden.
I also know people that have tested positive for immunity. But only those who were sick the last weeks. Not those that were sick in February and March.
We do not know which level of antibodies a person must possess to get a positive test result. Several tests have circulated in Sweden the last months.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2453106]About one point, I would differ, I do know a lot about Stockholm, since I had lived there for over 3 years, but this was a long time ago. Your response is quite measured and temperate, however the arguments I have heard from others are really not rationale and are based upon certain tenets of faith. Well I am familiar with this blind faith and confidence which is inspired by nationalist feelings.
I would just gently say this, about comparing to neighboring countries with similar climates and population densities (Denmark's is a lot higher though) you can see what the differing mortality rates from a severe vs a very relaxed lock down could be, really the fairest test would be the exact same environment, but this is obviously not possible.
The level of immunity should be higher in societies which have a more relaxed or no lock down, however it seems that in every systematic test in every place these numbers are far lower than the proponents of herd immunity have advocated. Some studies say it is up to 20% in New York, that could only be the case given its very high urban density, it would be far lower in LOS Angeles (I know both cities quite well) given the lock down in both places, I these the North American lock downs are far less strict than the European ones.
I would expect Sweden to have more people who are immune, but thus far these numbers as verified by studies are still far too low and the prediction of herd immunity by June or August is premature.
The assertion that these tests are flawed and many more people are surely immune is unfortunately just a matter of faith in the absence of hard evidence.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=McGrath;2453130]First of all, everything about economics is wrong in that post. Sweden doesn't gain any GDP towards other countries because they are a little more open for a few months. I first came to Frankfurt because of the banks were there so I know some things about this.
Sweden is a small open economy with a floating currency, in the long view, how the rest of the world goes Sweden will go.
And the notion that Sweden is the only country that can count dead people the right way is ridicoulus.[/QUOTE]I have never written that Sweden gain any GDP towards other countries because they are a little more open for a few months.
Did you mix the posts?
If lock-down is a clever strategy that do not harm the economy.
Why not locking down the economy for 2-3 years?
Future will show if Sweden or Spain / Italy / France will beg for money and loans from EU / ECB.
I never said that only Sweden counts Corona-dead people the right way.
I said that countries count in different ways.
In such case, comparing statistics with reported Corona-deaths between countries is worthless.
The only accurate way to compare countries is to count "excess deaths".
How many died this year compared to previous years.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2453084]Excess deaths can only be observed after the virus has disappeared, not after a 'second wave, which nobody wants to happen. It is still relevant to compare deaths with covid-infected patients under an epidemiological and medical point of view.
Virus may become attenuated (I. E. Weaker) like Spanish flu and remain in the population without the need of a vaccine. It may also disappear like with Sars. There are many ways in which a pandemic can end, not only through a vaccine, which remains the best and quickest way though!
Let me understand here, you want to take Belarus as a credible example in support of the Swedish approach to the pandemic. Belarus? A country, whose president said he doesn't believe in the pandemic because, and I quote, 'he does not see Covid fly in the air'? Really Arnold?
In addition, the vulnerable groups are NOT only elderly people with underlying conditions, but also all other people with respiratory diseases (including Asthma, COPD, CF etc.) all those recovering from cancer treatment, people of all ages with cardiovascular and kidney conditions and I stopped here because the list would be too long. There was absolutely no way of knowing the most vulnerable groups at the beginning of the pandemic because it was a brand new virus and, even now, we still do not fully understand how it works. DO NOT SPREAD FAKE NEWS and listen to the experts.
Sweden have chosen to avoid the lockdown and they now have almost 4000 deaths (or 389 every 1 M people) after having done 20,000 tests every 1 M people. Other countries with similar population size like Czechia, which closed down very early in the epidemic, they have 29 deaths every 1 M people) after having done 36,000 tests every 1 M people.
Sweden has taken a gamble and now they are counting corpses.[/QUOTE]
Statistics on reported Corona-death are not comparable between countries. Countries count deaths in different ways.
Also take account of number of infected. And wait for the second wave. It will happen. You apparantly did not take account of that in your biased statistics.
More than 93 % of dead people in Sweden are older than 70 years. Average age of Corona-deaths: 81 years.
Almost all have at least one underlying disease.
Why then isolating young and healthy people and killing healthy firms?
More clever to let society be open and protect risk groups.
NO.
The Big Gamble is to lock down the whole economy.
Nobody (neither you) knows the consequences of this, since it has never been applied before during any pandemic.
Your main argument is "Everybody else locked down, so it must be the correct strategy".
Did you take account of the health consequences of mass-unemployment?
Please, stop spreading Fake News.
China does this every day to get economic advantages.
[QUOTE=ShooBree;2453092]I'm amazed that people can write about strategies against the Coronavirus without even mentioning the economy!
If the only single goal was to lower the number of deaths caused by see-19 all countries would still be in quarantine!
What Bolsonaro understands is that a lockdown would completely butcher the Brazilian economy! He's afraid of the consequences of a lockdown! He is looking one step further, being smarter, than people screaming in fear because of a virus. I'm extremely disappointed by the other political leaders. It will be rough for us in Nothern Europe, rougher for those in the South and a catastrophe for Brazil. 40 million unemployed in the US, but let's act as if there will be no consequences.
I've been reading comments that without a lockdown everyone will die or half of all people will die. Today we can easily dismiss those claims as scaremongering.
So how many would die? I don't know. No one knows. In Sweden we have 59 deaths among people under 50 years, is that much? I don't think so considering the consequences of a lockdown. This virus is killing the people that pretty much could die from anything.
I would love to blast our government for their incompetence, because they truly are incompetent, but no lockdown was a great and courageous decision to take. It's got nothing to do with nationalism, it was simply the right thing to do in my opinion.
In other countries people have too much of a sunk cost to admit or even entertain the thought that they might have been better off without a lockdown. That in combination with populistic politicians, the media and scared / dumb people lead to the acceptance of a lockdown.
As said, it's not about nationalism.[/QUOTE]Very well written.
I fully agree with you.
The health and economic consequences of mass unemployment due to lock-down will become several times larger than the health consequences of the Covid19-virus.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453141]Statistics on reported Corona-death are not comparable between countries. Countries count deaths in different ways.
Also take account of number of infected. And wait for the second wave. It will happen. You apparantly did not take account of that in your biased statistics.
More than 93 % of dead people in Sweden are older than 70 years. Average age of Corona-deaths: 81 years.
Almost all have at least one underlying disease.
Why then isolating young and healthy people and killing healthy firms?
More clever to let society be open and protect risk groups.
NO.
The Big Gamble is to lock down the whole economy.
Nobody (neither you) knows the consequences of this, since it has never been applied before during any pandemic.
Your main argument is "Everybody else locked down, so it must be the correct strategy".
Did you take account of the health consequences of mass-unemployment?
Please, stop spreading Fake News.
China does this every day to get economic advantages.[/QUOTE]The methodology and accuracy of the count is not exactly the same between any two different countries, however similar countries should be broadly in line. In this case however, Sweden and Czechia, the discrepancy is so damn huge, that it would be all but impossible for Czechia to not have a dramatically lower death toll at current (I am not speaking about herd immunity or the hypothetical second wave).
When the figures are this far apart and the fact that figures from Czechia have far more integrity than Belarus, China or Russia, their death toll and infection rate has been undoubtedly lower. Yes, no 2 countries use the exact same methodology and capture data the same way, however when the discrepancy is so incredibly large the conclusion is beyond dispute.
Let the asympomatic roam free and live off their recent ancestors nest egg. Since they have an insufficient education in most countries it's only a matter of time before they exhaust their funds at the discos and realize it's time to hunt down the rich. One person in South Korea was traced back from 215 infections spread over 5 bars. The crumbs led back to Grandma's house where the big bad Wolf 🐺 devoured her. Betsy Devos will make sure the for profit colleges get their dough for the insufficient education provided to Hansel and Gretel. It was a gruesome story when written and later sanitized to mask the ugly truth. Thank Steven Munchkin and Kamala Harris for all those home foreclosures in California, suckers. Just call me argumentative.
[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2453148]Thank Steven Munchkin and Kamala Harris for all those home foreclosures in California, suckers.[/QUOTE]Yes, let us blame Steve Munchkin! There the little culprit is in the middle with a couple of his cronies!
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453141]Statistics on reported Corona-death are not comparable between countries. Countries count deaths in different ways.
Also take account of number of infected. And wait for the second wave. It will happen. You apparantly did not take account of that in your biased statistics.
More than 93 % of dead people in Sweden are older than 70 years. Average age of Corona-deaths: 81 years.
Almost all have at least one underlying disease.
Why then isolating young and healthy people and killing healthy firms?
More clever to let society be open and protect risk groups.
NO..[/QUOTE]I have never said to isolate the young and healthy, but I was correcting you in just having the elderly with underlying conditions as the vulnerable group.
Cases in Sweden are likely underestimated as their test rates are still very low.
Sweden economy will suffer as much as the rest of Europe, according to some analysts in FT: [URL]https://www.ft.com/content/93105160-dcb4-4721-9e58-a7b262cd4b6e[/URL] and this makes me wonder, why pay a high death toll then.
Finally, I want to make one thing very clear here as I may have come across a bit harsh earlier: I absolutely love Sweden, the Swedish people and food but I think they could have done more in this case to save lives. That's all.
Rock.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453046]Statistics on REPORTED Corona-deaths in Sweden comapring with other countries is WORTHLESS.
It simply depends on that different countries identify real reasons to deaths in different ways.
Here, Belgium and Sweden are top countries since they identify the death reason - other countries (like France) do not.
The only way to calculate Corona-death are as follows:
Number of dead in April 2020 divided by average number of dead in April 2015-19.
Then you get how many percent died more than normal.
And this figure in Sweden is not higher 2020 than 1993, when there was a severe influence.
Comapring period February - May in Sweden 2020 with 2018, then only 1700 more dead people in 2020!
Almost all of them multi-dicesease and average age of 81!.[/QUOTE]I didn't read here people die in Stockholm streets, but I wrote Stockholm is worst deaths rate with more than 1000 deaths, competing with NYC where we could see fridge trucks in streets, full of dead, and also Hart island. We will see for second wave, if it happens, let's try just to be able to control first one.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453135]Anyway, politicians like Macron chose to isolate young and healthy people and slaughter the whole society, because "other countries did the same" or "China told us to lock-down".
"If all others do the same, then this strategy must be the correct one".
But here, China has a Hidden Agenda. China wants US and Europe to lock down, in order to get an economic lead.
Many European and US firms - as in the automobile sector - will soon wake up and find themselves in a real bad position.[/QUOTE]China was the first to sacrifice their economy by implementing national lockdown. They had no way of predicting with 100 percent certainty if any other country would follow suit. The only thing that they could have maybe predicted was that countries with a one-party-system would be more efficient at containing the crisis and getting compliance from the populace.
The fundamental problem is almost every country underestimated the threat. Vietnam is the notable exception. I believe their national lockdown only lasted between two and three weeks. On paper, Vietnam should have been one of the worse-hit battlefields for the war against the coronavirus. Brazil, USA, Europe, and Russia all have significantly more financial resources. And being farther from the Wuhan epicenter, all these countries had significantly more time to prepare for the virus. With the exception of masks and the strict controls of the borders, daily life in Vietnam is already back to normal, even in Saigon which has two of the most population dense districts in the world.
So here is the sad lesson: if all of the Western countries had (1) taken action early, and (2) implemented a super-strict lockdown where 97 percent of population did not leave the house, not only would fewer lives have been lost but the economy would have only needed to be closed for 2-3 weeks. As I mentioned before, many Western European countries practically close their economy the entire month of August as is. And countries like France, with the amount of protesting they do, even more.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_city_districts_by_population_density[/URL]
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2453375]China was the first to sacrifice their economy by implementing national lockdown. They had no way of predicting with 100 percent certainty if any other country would follow suit. The only thing that they could have maybe predicted was that countries with a one-party-system would be more efficient at containing the crisis and getting compliance from the populace.
The fundamental problem is almost every country underestimated the threat. Vietnam is the notable exception. I believe their national lockdown only lasted between two and three weeks. On paper, Vietnam should have been one of the worse-hit battlefields for the war against the coronavirus. Brazil, USA, Europe, and Russia all have significantly more financial resources. And being farther from the Wuhan epicenter, all these countries had significantly more time to prepare for the virus. With the exception of masks and the strict controls of the borders, daily life in Vietnam is already back to normal, even in Saigon which has two of the most population dense districts in the world.
So here is the sad lesson: if all of the Western countries had (1) taken action early, and (2) implemented a super-strict lockdown where 97 percent of population did not leave the house, not only would fewer lives have been lost but the economy would have only needed to be closed for 2-3 weeks. As I mentioned before, many Western European countries practically close their economy the entire month of August as is. And countries like France, with the amount of protesting they do, even more.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_city_districts_by_population_density[/URL][/QUOTE]France don't stop economy on August, just slowlier, because sun and 3 beautiful seas in France, making most visited country and Paris for most visited city even no sea. I won't say Macron is a good president because he is not good enough for arithmetic, but he is not crazy like Trump and tried at least to save life without eating chloroquine bonbons, confined saved more than 60 000 life, double than our deaths. Multi cultural with different religions French are very different from Germany or Sweden, but except in some difficult places, French respected quite well confined, even they thought about holidays at the beginning. If we understand we need to protect our health and safety, we have level of quality in France to go on, even I don't think putting more tax on rich will help economy to restart.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2453375]China was the first to sacrifice their economy by implementing national lockdown. They had no way of predicting with 100 percent certainty if any other country would follow suit. The only thing that they could have maybe predicted was that countries with a one-party-system would be more efficient at containing the crisis and getting compliance from the populace.
The fundamental problem is almost every country underestimated the threat. Vietnam is the notable exception. I believe their national lockdown only lasted between two and three weeks. On paper, Vietnam should have been one of the worse-hit battlefields for the war against the coronavirus. Brazil, USA, Europe, and Russia all have significantly more financial resources. And being farther from the Wuhan epicenter, all these countries had significantly more time to prepare for the virus. With the exception of masks and the strict controls of the borders, daily life in Vietnam is already back to normal, even in Saigon which has two of the most population dense districts in the world.
So here is the sad lesson: if all of the Western countries had (1) taken action early, and (2) implemented a super-strict lockdown where 97 percent of population did not leave the house, not only would fewer lives have been lost but the economy would have only needed to be closed for 2-3 weeks. As I mentioned before, many Western European countries practically close their economy the entire month of August as is. And countries like France, with the amount of protesting they do, even more.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_city_districts_by_population_density[/URL][/QUOTE]You suggest that all countries should lock-down the whole economy 2-3 weeks. And then everything is OK. Virus is eliminated in the whole world.
No. It would not work.
It is a new virus and there is no vaccine.
Covid-19 would come in wave after wave (compare with Spanish disease, HongKong and Asian influence).
And then all countries need to lock-down 2-3 weeks every time. Maybe every 4th or 6th month?
Countries overestimated the danger of the virus.
Most people who have died by Covid-19 would die anyway within 1-2 years.
(compare: 200 000 - 1 000 000 people die every year by the annual influence)
Of course, there are exceptions, where also young people have died by covid-19, but they are in a clear minority.
The fundamental problem is that almost all countries have underestimated the economic damages AND long-term health damages of total lock-down.
Such total lock-downs have never been practised before.
Mass-unemployment and mass-bankrupsies will also kill people. Many small-firm owners will be ruined.
Huge increases in suicides, alcoholists, drug addicts.
Worse mental and physical health causing other diseases.
And above all, increased criminality (as a result of mass-unemployment) will be the consequences of these lock-downs.
And now we are talking of young people who are affected.
So the lesson to learn is as follows:
1) Let 90 % of the society work as usual.
2) Put all resources on protecting the risk groups. (Not in the Swedish incompetent way!)
As they say never waste a crisis.
Some Prominent German Politicians are using the current Covid 19 disaster to contact federal state leaders to bring in the Nordick Model!
Quelle Surprise!
[URL]https://www.dw.com/en/german-lawmakers-call-for-buying-sex-to-be-made-permanently-illegal/a-53504221[/URL]
This is particularly disgusting given that this disease has already horribly impacted on sex workers!
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453555]The fundamental problem is that almost all countries have underestimated the economic damages AND long-term health damages of total lock-down.
Mass-unemployment and mass-bankrupsies will also kill people. Many small-firm owners will be ruined.
Huge increases in suicides, alcoholists, drug addicts.
Worse mental and physical health causing other diseases.
And above all, increased criminality (as a result of mass-unemployment) will be the consequences of these lock-downs.
And now we are talking of young people who are affected.[/QUOTE]Global lockdown, especially if it were to last longer than six months, results in significant economic damages. One does not need a degree in economics to understand this. The world has seen world wars that more or less approximate a global economic lockdown. What the world has never seen is a virus that doubles infection rates every three days, at least not since global air travel became so accessible and cheap.
I believe the damages you listed above are unavoidable, even if the lockdowns had not occurred, because even before the pandemic we were in the early stages of an automation revolution. The idea that everyone needs to be back at work for the economy to be healthy may prove to be an outdated idea by 2040. Working remotely and working fewer hours will soon be the norm, so this pandemic is just a practice test for the future. Do not get me wrong, it hurts and it is horrible, I am suffering a bit financially, but it was going to happen sooner or later. In 1837, the average work week in USA and Europe was between 69 to 94 hours. Now it is between 30 to 40 hours. In the future, it could be between 5 to 10 hours. At least in the initial years of this technological revolution, there will be civil unrest and perhaps violent extremism. There will be a mental health crisis as people face the frustration and rejection of being fired. With all the newfound free time, people will struggle with feelings of "uselessness". People will need to find new hobbies to stay sane or drown their sorrows. Perhaps we will see more people turning to prostitution for comfort. Nevertheless, all those automation projects that companies had planned for the future are being executed on now. Some companies are actually happy they were able to layoff workers during this pandemic. They see it as an opportunity to double down their investment on automation, which allows them to be more efficient and cost-effective.
[URL]https://www.seattletimes.com/business/robots-welcome-to-take-over-as-coronavirus-pandemic-accelerates-automation/[/URL]
[URL]https://web.archive.org/web/20140502004731/http://www.lorraine.direccte.gouv.fr/evolution-de-la-duree-du-travail-en-france-et-dans-le-monde[/URL]
[URL]https://thebulletin.brandtschool.de/why-covid-19-will-increase-automation-anxiety/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453555]You suggest that all countries should lock-down the whole economy 2-3 weeks. And then everything is OK. Virus is eliminated in the whole world.
No. It would not work.
It is a new virus and there is no vaccine.
Covid-19 would come in wave after wave (compare with Spanish disease, HongKong and Asian influence).
And then all countries need to lock-down 2-3 weeks every time. Maybe every 4th or 6th month?
[/QUOTE]I will acknowledge it is not realistic, because every country would need to agree on a 2-3 week lockdown period. And not every country would be willing or capable of imposing a strict lockdown. But Vietnam has almost been able to eradicate the virus without a long lockdown period. Unlike China nobody distrusts their numbers. The problem is Vietnam is a small economy, so unfortunately they will have to reopen their borders to countries who weren't as diligent with containment.
[QUOTE]"If it were possible to wave a magic wand and make all Americans freeze in place for 14 days while sitting six feet apart, epidemiologists say, the whole epidemic would sputter to a halt. The virus would die out on every contaminated surface and, because almost everyone shows symptoms within two weeks, it would be evident who was infected. If we had enough tests for every American, even the completely asymptomatic cases could be found and isolated. The crisis would be over. Obviously, there is no magic wand, and no 300 million tests. But the goal of lockdowns and social distancing is to approximate such a total freeze."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/22/health/coronavirus-restrictions-us.html.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453555]You suggest that all countries should lock-down the whole economy 2-3 weeks. And then everything is OK. Virus is eliminated in the whole world.
No. It would not work.
It is a new virus and there is no vaccine.
Covid-19 would come in wave after wave (compare with Spanish disease, HongKong and Asian influence).
And then all countries need to lock-down 2-3 weeks every time. Maybe every 4th or 6th month?
Countries overestimated the danger of the virus.
Most people who have died by Covid-19 would die anyway within 1-2 years.
(compare: 200 000 - 1 000 000 people die every year by the annual influence)
Of course, there are exceptions, where also young people have died by covid-19, but they are in a clear minority.
[/QUOTE]I mostly agree with you that a more precise approach could have been made without a near complete shut down of society, but how could that have been done? Yes, this disease is extremely hard on the old but from just eyeballing the patients I've treated in my intensive care units, at least half of the patients were between 45 and 65. Also, looking only at fatalities may not be the most prudent approach. While many of the younger will not die, for those who survive, being hospitalized for over a month or more is nothing to scoff off. We can isolate the old, but are we going to add the middle aged and obese to that isolation group also? Because after age, obesity is really the most fatal comorbidity out there.
Also, previous post that claimed that China intentionally released the virus to get ahead economically seems pretty ill founded and pretty Trumpish in it's hate mongering tone. I mean, speculation is one thing, but assertion in such a pre-convinced tone is a rather "internet" of you.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2453375]China was the first to sacrifice their economy by implementing national lockdown. They had no way of predicting with 100 percent certainty if any other country would follow suit. The only thing that they could have maybe predicted was that countries with a one-party-system would be more efficient at containing the crisis and getting compliance from the populace.
The fundamental problem is almost every country underestimated the threat. Vietnam is the notable exception. I believe their national lockdown only lasted between two and three weeks. On paper, Vietnam should have been one of the worse-hit battlefields for the war against the coronavirus. Brazil, USA, Europe, and Russia all have significantly more financial resources. And being farther from the Wuhan epicenter, all these countries had significantly more time to prepare for the virus. With the exception of masks and the strict controls of the borders, daily life in Vietnam is already back to normal, even in Saigon which has two of the most population dense districts in the world.
So here is the sad lesson: if all of the Western countries had (1) taken action early, and (2) implemented a super-strict lockdown where 97 percent of population did not leave the house, not only would fewer lives have been lost but the economy would have only needed to be closed for 2-3 weeks. As I mentioned before, many Western European countries practically close their economy the entire month of August as is. And countries like France, with the amount of protesting they do, even more.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_city_districts_by_population_density[/URL][/QUOTE]Our Secretary of State Pompeo suggested this virus came out of a Wuhan lab. It is possible that they grew the virus, unleashed it on their own population to give appearance of innocence and randomness, and contained it very efficiently and methodically and carefully leaked it to other countries, particularly the key geopolitical rivals. US has clearly been more impacted by this virus than China has been, and most of Europe has been crippled as well. If they wanted to narrow the economic gap between them to the West, this was an ingenious way to do it.
Yeah, Vietnam managed it well and so did Korea, Taiwan, etc. Those nations had past experiences with such viruses, their governments were more alert, their people love their masks, and they shut down in time. Their culture is such that they obediently follow government instructions. Out in the west, we are individualistic, love our freedoms, hate masks, and we had never seen such a pandemic in our lifetimes. I would not chalk this up as if these Asian nations are somehow superior in anyway.
But this is exactly the problem since the end of the soviet union, capitalism is leading the world in a terrible way, our leaders are just incapable to protect us even against a basic virus. The guys who are pushing for more capitalism are the first to ask financial support from the different government which is exactly the opposite of their own values. Most of the rich are stupid and their children even more or they will not spend their time to buy useless and stupid things, like LV, Porsche, BMW. Prada, Channel, Lancome 100,200, 300 years back the rich people were the most educated, today I don t believe it is still the case. They don t want to have educated people they just want to have customers who follow their commands (they control most of the news) don t think but buy and even better with credit.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2453610]Our Secretary of State Pompeo suggested this virus came out of a Wuhan lab. It is possible that they grew the virus, unleashed it on their own population to give appearance of innocence and randomness, and contained it very efficiently and methodically and carefully leaked it to other countries, particularly the key geopolitical rivals. US has clearly been more impacted by this virus than China has been, and most of Europe has been crippled as well. If they wanted to narrow the economic gap between them to the West, this was an ingenious way to do it.
Yeah, Vietnam managed it well and so did Korea, Taiwan, etc. Those nations had past experiences with such viruses, their governments were more alert, their people love their masks, and they shut down in time. Their culture is such that they obediently follow government instructions. Out in the west, we are individualistic, love our freedoms, hate masks, and we had never seen such a pandemic in our lifetimes. I would not chalk this up as if these Asian nations are somehow superior in anyway.[/QUOTE]I think this stretches credibility to its max and is an illustration of how far fetched conspiracy theories can be on both ends of the political spectrum. I am no fan of China, but is easy to see how they could have contained this. China is first of all far more organized and effective an authoritarian (totalitarian is probably more apt) than other aspiring dictatorial regimes like Russia. China's levers of control over society are also far greater than Russia's, things like their social credit system and the zillions of cameras they have surveying the population and the facial recognition AI they use to identify people in no time in an immense crowd.
1. In the West, we have far greater civil liberties and can not make use of such tools, but the Chinese could, no government in Europe could have imposed a lock down on this scale and with such brutality. I think the Czechs have had one of the most effective ones in Europe, but it pales in comparison.
2. China is far more organized than even other authoritarian (totalitarian) regimes, ie Russia, and other mildly authoritarian regimes that do not respect human rights as much, ie India. Russia's state control apparatus is not capable of doing what the Chinese could and have done, the virus will spread far more widely in Russia, even though it is far more sparsely populated. Imagine India, I am using India as an example to illustrate the point and make it obvious. Does anyone doubt that the Chinese would be a 100 xs more effective in containing this outbreak than India, I didn't think so?
All that I am willing to believe is that they inadvertently let this loose from a lab by accident, that they would release it and risk such economic and political damage (to their leadership) is quite far fetched. Their economy is doing worse this year than at any point in the past 4 decades or so.
About this being a trick to undermine the western economies, this is truly one of the most far fetched, I would use another adjective, theory I have heard. China is heavily dependent on exports and not domestic consumption, in facts its economy is skewed heavily towards investment and less consumption. Therefore if a lot of its trading partners in the west are in economic despair, China will also suffer enormously and that will have political repercussions at home. China actually needs the west more than the west probably needs it, much more of its GDP depends on trade, and its needs an economically healthy west.
Notable politicians in the US are trying to use China as an excuse to hide their own inaction in the early phases of this pandemic, they are on record numerous times dismissing the threat of this pandemic and telling everyone to calm down. The same person blaming China now does not hold much water. Of course China is not open and forthright about a lot of things and of course they try to put a shiny gloss on things and hide their errors, but willfully inflicting such damage on themselves and their main trading partners would have been highly questionable to say the least.
This is from a web site that is usually a fan of the right, but still balanced in many ways.
[URL]https://nationalinterest.org/blog/skeptics/dont-listen-%E2%80%98china-covered-coronavirus%E2%80%99-narrative-157241[/URL]
This virus is different and has the right mix of lethality and contagiousness to spread so effectively, other viruses have not succeeded as well.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2453870]I think this stretches credibility to its max and is an illustration of how far fetched conspiracy theories can be on both ends of the political spectrum. I am no fan of China, but is easy to see how they could have contained this. China is first of all far more organized and effective an authoritarian (totalitarian is probably more apt) than other aspiring dictatorial regimes like Russia. China's levers of control over society are also far greater than Russia's, things like their social credit system and the zillions of cameras they have surveying the population and the facial recognition AI they use to identify people in no time in an immense crowd.
1. In the West, we have far greater civil liberties and can not make use of such tools, but the Chinese could, no government in Europe could have imposed a lock down on this scale and with such brutality. I think the Czechs have had one of the most effective ones in Europe, but it pales in comparison.
2. China is far more organized than even other authoritarian (totalitarian) regimes, ie Russia, and other mildly authoritarian regimes that do not respect human rights as much, ie India. Russia's state control apparatus is not capable of doing what the Chinese could and have done, the virus will spread far more widely in Russia, even though it is far more sparsely populated. Imagine India, I am using India as an example to illustrate the point and make it obvious. Does anyone doubt that the Chinese would be a 100 xs more effective in containing this outbreak than India, I didn't think so?.[/QUOTE]Well, no doubt it is a conspiracy theory and no, it is not my personally created concoction. As for how likely it is, who knows?! The suspicion that it did not jump from a bat or some other wild animal to humans by accident is taking hold, especially in GOP circles in US. As I said and as many of us know, Pompeo has openly suggested it was created in a Wuhan lab and China has officially condemned that suggestion. And BTW, Pompeo is probably the closest confidant of Trump in his cabinet and Trump fully subscribes to Pompeo views and feels the same way. However, China has done precious little to truly dispel any such theory because they simply refuse any objective, 3rd party investigation and one of the first things epidemiologists and virologists do in these situations is to track it down to Patient#1, which has been impossible with this virus. I was watching Contagion the other day and pretty much all of the movie played out identically in reality except that Patient#1 is not a stunning blonde Paltrow, and even worse we have no clue who that patient is.
If it was not accidental but somewhat man made, or man played a part in either the creation or dispersion of this virus, then it begs a second question -- how did it jump out of lab to humans? Was it intentional or accidental?? If it was intentional, what was the intent? Any intent to create it in the first place and "allowing it to leak out of the lab" can hardly be categorized as benign or even innocent. Yes, Trump and Pompeo have stopped at suggesting that the virus originated in Wuhan lab and did not (yet) take the next step and suggest that it was done by the Chinese government with a malicious intent. They may or may not take that next step, but it is being actively debated in GOP's underbelly circles.
BTW, I think you agree that China contained this very effectively (whether they truly had 80,000 infections and 4,500 dead or if those #s are ten times higher), and I had already said the same. The only point you dispute is that whether it was a runaway virus and they contained it; or if they leaked it, allowed it to proliferate and then contained it. That again brings us back to the intent, which I don't think anyone here is in a position to refute with authority, for the simple fact that I don't think anyone posting here is clued into Chinese politburo.
As for the relative economic impact, we can debate it all day long. China has the reputation of playing a long term game. Even the above conspiracy theory acknowledges that China knew aforehand that their own economy will get impacted adversely but they were prepared for it as a necessary price to pay to inflict a greater damage on their key rivals, and so far that calculation (if it was the true intent) has played to plan.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2453610]Our Secretary of State Pompeo suggested this virus came out of a Wuhan lab. It is possible that they grew the virus, unleashed it on their own population to give appearance of innocence and randomness, and contained it very efficiently and methodically and carefully leaked it to other countries, particularly the key geopolitical rivals. US has clearly been more impacted by this virus than China has been, and most of Europe has been crippled as well. If they wanted to narrow the economic gap between them to the West, this was an ingenious way to do it.[/QUOTE]Right now the Chinese economy is still number two by a far margin, and highly dependent on the Western economies. If this is the year 2030, the BRI is complete, and China has shifted some of that dependency to a rising Africa, then perhaps a "deliberate spread" theory might make more sense. But in 2020, this deliberate spread theory represents a "nuclear option" that would hurt China just as much as the Western economies. If China was hell-bent on self-destruction and going full kamikaze to inflict economic harm on USA, it could sell its US treasury bonds. But they haven't. Even though tensions with Washington DC have increased, Beijing likes those low risk, high yields much more. This is no different than pay sex world. I have seen "tensions" rise in the FKK clubs: (1) WG gets short-changed at money locker, (2) monger gets overcharged at money locker, (3) monger cuts in line in front of another monger. Tempers flare, shouting ensues in Romanian, English, German, but just prior to the point of escalation, all parties cool down. Nobody wants to get banned from the club!
Although China is trying to transition away, it is still the "world's manufacturing plant":
[QUOTE]We should not forget that China, the worlds largest exporter, needs the rest of the world for its own economic recovery.
There are at least two reasons China depends on the global economy for its own recovery: Chinas large amount of exports to other countries and the continuity of its Belt and Road Initiative (BRI) Chinas massive infrastructure projects, many of which are located in countries affected by COVID-19.
To ensure its economic recovery, China should assist countries involved in (BRI) initiative and improve its relationship with its biggest export destination, the United States.
https://theconversation.com/chinas-economic-recovery-depends-on-the-rest-of-the-world-135319
[/QUOTE]Deploying a disease as communicable as CV19 introduces political, social, and economic chaos, something which the CCP does not like. The idea of a weapon is that it hits your intended target, not causes collateral damage that could come back to harm you. In other words, you want a gun that can aim. Not a gun that will spray in unpredictable directions including your own. CCP had no way of predicting that other countries would lock down or their ability to contain the virus. Because China silenced the Wuhan doctors in early stages of outbreak, Chinese millennials, who were mostly politically apathetic before, have now had a political awakening and have started to criticise the regime. That is a huge threat to the future stability and existence of the CCP.
At any point in time, there are thousands of Chinese scientists living in the USA. Not that uncommon for a Chinese scientist to work in the West for several decades, then get lured back to China with insane amounts of money and lofty job titles. One of the ones that returned to China in 2019 was a 59-year old cancer researcher, who just developed a CV19 test back in Chinese labs. Would China willingly harm some of its best and brightest by unleashing a virus on them? [URL]https://www.propublica.org/article/the-trump-administration-drove-him-back-to-china-where-he-invented-a-fast-coronavirus-test[/URL].
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2453921]Right now the Chinese economy is still number two by a far margin, and highly dependent on the Western economies. If this is the year 2030, the BRI is complete, and China has shifted some of that dependency to a rising Africa, then perhaps a "deliberate spread" theory might make more sense. But in 2020, this deliberate spread theory represents a "nuclear option" that would hurt China just as much as the Western economies. If China was hell-bent on self-destruction and going full kamikaze to inflict economic harm on USA, it could sell its US treasury bonds. But they haven't. Even though tensions with Washington DC have increased, Beijing likes those low risk, high yields much more. This is no different than pay sex world. I have seen "tensions" rise in the FKK clubs: (1) WG gets short-changed at money locker, (2) monger gets overcharged at money locker, (3) monger cuts in line in front of another monger. Tempers flare, shouting ensues in Romanian, English, German, but just prior to the point of escalation, all parties cool down. Nobody wants to get banned from the club!
Although China is trying to transition away, it is still the "world's manufacturing plant":.[/QUOTE]There have been suggestions in right wing media that Trump should just abrogate the bonds held by China as a reparation for the harm inflicted on US. Trump has played that down for now given the current market conditions and the stress such an action would cause in the market. If he will entertain that idea more seriously in the future is tough to know.
BTW, it is not as if China has a trillion dollars sitting in the bank free and clear because that amount has matching liabilities, and reducing its dollar reserves will most certainly put even more stress on CNY which has already lost 4% vs dollar since mid Jan and 12% in roughly 2 years. At a time when its exports are likely to be weak, cutting dollar reserves will not do any favors to itself and yes a weak RMB would normally help with regards to exports except right now every other economy is weak and hence there are many places and things China could export to, and right now most western nations which are the primary export markets for China are super upset with China after the role China played in this virus proliferation, and it is a folly for China to think it can export its way out of trouble. So, no, I reject this theory that China is being judicious and responsible because it did not *trim down dollar reserves. China held its dollar reserves because it had no other choice. Plus, there is no other asset or currency it can replace at that amount, Euro depreciates even faster and there is at least some risk Euro could simply break up if this German court ruling against ECB holds and Italy and southern Europeans decide they had enough and try Italexit or Spainixit. Yen is safe enough but not large enough market to buy a trillion dollars worth in a jiffy. No, China has not much recourse on this.
And with all due respect saying something like "CV19 introduces political, social, and economic chaos, something which the CCP does not like" is naive and presumptuous because you and I both have no clue what they like and don't know what they are prepared to do and not prepared to do. China has been increasingly belligerent, nationalism has been stoked up at home to a fever pitch, Xi Jinping wants a third term and he is not getting it done on the home front on the economy side, and there is no telling what risks he is prepared to take. He sent a whole bunch of people to prison and death cells as part of his anti corruption drive and made a lot of enemies. He cannot hope for a quiet retirement as Jiang Zemin or Hu Jintao achieved. It is either dictator for life or bust. He is probably prepared for risks which normal Chinese leaders might not take.
The simple fact is that they did not allow any 3rd party investigation of this virus origin and we still don't know (a) if it was organic or man made (b) if it was spread globally despite their prevention efforts or if they carefully and surreptitiously leaked it. Only a true investigation can establish the facts, and there is only one party which is blocking the investigation and it is fair to question their motives.
As China asserts itself globally, its diplomats around the world are taking on foes big and small.
The brash new attitude, playing out on social media, in newsprint and across negotiating tables, marks a turn for China's once low-key diplomats. It's part of a deliberate shift within the Foreign Ministry, spurred on by Chinese leaders seeking to claim what they see as their nation's rightful place in the world, in the face of an increasingly inward-looking USA.
China's state media describe it as a "Wolf Warrior" ethos—named for a nationalistic Chinese film franchise about a Rambo-like soldier-turned-security contractor who battles American-led mercenary groups.
In Venezuela, a major recipient of Beijing's aid, the Chinese embassy lashed out at local legislators who described the pathogen that causes Covid-19 as the "China coronavirus. " Those legislators, the embassy said in a March statement on its website, were suffering from a "political virus."
"Since you are already very sick from this, hurry up to ask for proper treatment," the statement said. "The first step might be to wear the masks and shut up."
Read the rest of the article below. There have been many such articles in media. I understand China also attacked India recently from another WSJ article (or perhaps FT). Xi Jinping is feeling that he needs to deliver and his lieutenants are stepping up attacks. Obviously, there is the huge hostility to Australia now. The question is, what is China hiding and why is there such alarm on their part to any objective investigation if they are innocent?
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/chinas-wolf-warrior-diplomats-are-ready-to-fight-11589896722?mod=searchresults&page=1&pos=1[/URL]
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2453870]I think this stretches credibility to its max and is an illustration of how far fetched conspiracy theories can be on both ends of the political spectrum. I am no fan of China, but is easy to see how they could have contained this. China is first of all far more organized and effective an authoritarian (totalitarian is probably more apt) than other aspiring dictatorial regimes like Russia. China's levers of control over society are also far greater than Russia's, things like their social credit system and the zillions of cameras they have surveying the population and the facial recognition AI they use to identify people in no time in an immense crowd.
1. In the West, we have far greater civil liberties and can not make use of such tools, but the Chinese could, no government in Europe could have imposed a lock down on this scale and with such brutality. I think the Czechs have had one of the most effective ones in Europe, but it pales in comparison.[/QUOTE]Do you know real figures for deaths in Wuhan and whole huge China? Do you think only 1 person can know the truth? I think nobody knows. In Western Europe, we just know they lied for figures and Chinese people confirmed even they are afraid of their government, and about when it started, not on international market on December as the whole world thought at this time because not many deaths at this time, but before October. But as I m not paranoiac like US, I think it was just accident through safety and not a virus weapon, and at least US know more about Trump taking chloroquine bonbons, telling confined is useless, let s go to the beach and play golf, 100 000 deaths talk and they will get much more, from more than 30 millions unemployed, Texas falling down under, and more than 10 millions illegals, much more than 50 millions with no health insurance who can t afford healthcare, Obama please run back, for sure I would prefer him, rather than a crazy ready for anything, when his model, from ex communist wife seems more clever. When San Francisco is a beautiful town for me, but NYC is just a magic town, when Vegas didn't impressed me much because so fake when I walked the whole strip and back from Circus and even to downtown where I found a WG I could see, when I was given papers for escorts on the strip, but I can t forget fridge trucks and not only one in streets and Hart Island putting people they didn't know about all together. About CIA, I remember when I was a child, hearing about watergate and Nixon who had to leave, about lies and paranoia under cold war, they can compete with communist China for lies. Both are dangerous for me, and Western Europe have to protect for a better safety, for more independent, when we are a 300 millions people market and we have the highest standards for quality and way of life. France is number 1, Spain number 3 and Italy should be 4 or 5, for tourism for attractive countries, Paris being number 1 for towns, before NYC, LA, Rio or Tokyo which are much bigger.
[QUOTE=Arnold15;2453136]The only accurate way to compare countries is to count "excess deaths".
How many died this year compared to previous years.[/QUOTE]You're partly right so I suggest you take a look at those figures:
[URL]https://euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps#excess-mortality[/URL]
You go all the way down the webpage, you select Denmark, Norway, Finland and Sweden and for the week range you select all the weeks from 2020. It looks like Sweden is not doing so well compared to other northern countries.
You can also use this source:
[URL]https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data-explorer?zoomToSelection=true&time=2020-03-19..&deathsMetric=true&dailyFreq=true&perCapita=true&smoothing=7&country=BEL~SWE~NOR~FIN~DNK[/URL]
Guess who is now way above Belgium which counts every unexplained death as related to coronavirus?
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2453965]There have been suggestions in right wing media that Trump should just abrogate the bonds held by China as a reparation for the harm inflicted on US. Trump has played that down for now given the current market conditions and the stress such an action would cause in the market. If he will entertain that idea more seriously in the future is tough to know.
[/QUOTE]Knowing what is in the Politburo's head as you state is impossible but we do have a reasonable idea of the rational calculus that would be in their interest. With this rational calculus this would be quite a risky move. I have only quoted a small part of your previous report because the main source of these theories are actually politically motivated.
First of all there is a certain prominent right wing politician who is fearing for his re-election and is trying to cover up his initial missteps. He is on record saying numerous times that this would be a minor thing and is totally under control, now he is looking for a scapegoat to deflect attention away from these missteps. And accuracy and factual arguments are not his strong point to say the least. Furthermore a demographic that he relies on disproportionately, ie older voters, are not happy with this record as regarding the pandemic.
A lot of these theories have come out of this political discourse, not everyone who believes it has this motive, but it is spread by many people who have questionable motives, which in my view makes them more suspect. Trump has gotten rid of many non sycophantic cabinet members and many of those that survive do so by being totally subservient and sycophantic. In my opinion Pompeo fits this description, he is one of the biggest sycophants around and will always support his bosses' wild theories. For some reason Mike Pence avoids getting trapped into supporting these theories, he manages to avoid the worst of the spot light some how. I do not think it is Trump listening to Pompeo, rather the reverse.
Anyhow, that is really all I have to say on this matter. Also the Chinese could not be sure that they would be able to contain this had they released it deliberately, in fact it still remains a danger to them, albeit on a far reduced scale.
The news doesn't spell out if travel from those 26 countries into Germany also will be allowed. The statement from Bavarian premier seems to indicate otherwise.
In any case, there is no indication that they will open travel to people from outside EU. Such as US, for example.
And if and when they do, will they quarantine for x days? Any quarantine is a total no no for a sex tourist coming to DE for a week of sex.
And of course, none of this says when the sex clubs will actually be open.
Continue to think the likelihood of large FKKs opening up as they operated pre Covid is very small. My bet was that there is less than 5% chance by Sept, less than 25% chances by December.
——————————————.
A government source said the cabinet may also decide to lift a warning against travel to 26 fellow EU countries plus Britain, Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Liechtenstein from June 15, opening the way to separate advice for specific regions.
Markus Soeder, premier of Bavaria, the hardest-hit state, voiced opposition to moving too fast in reopening tourism.
"We have in Italy, Spain and France completely different infection numbers compared to Germany so I ask the federal government to think very carefully about this," he said.
"Nobody should be fooled. Corona remains deadly," Soeder said, describing Thuringia state's shift towards adopting voluntary, localised measures as a "fatal signal".
In a nod to Bavaria's objections, the cabinet might postpone its decision by a week, but still lift the blanket travel warning from mid-June, media group RND reported.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2454100]Anyhow, that is really all I have to say on this matter. Also the Chinese could not be sure that they would be able to contain this had they released it deliberately, in fact it still remains a danger to them, albeit on a far reduced scale.[/QUOTE]That China would have intentionally released a deadly virus upon the world is one of the silliest conspiracy theories I have ever heard. With world commerce being so interlinked, and China having the second largest economy in the world, that would be like shooting themselves in the head. No way they acted intentionally in that way, but they did try to cover it up, and then were slow to tell the world what was happening. We may never know the full truth.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2454100]Knowing what is in the Politburo's head as you state is impossible but we do have a reasonable idea of the rational calculus that would be in their interest. With this rational calculus this would be quite a risky move. I have only quoted a small part of your previous report because the main source of these theories are actually politically motivated.
First of all there is a certain prominent right wing politician who is fearing for his re-election and is trying to cover up his initial missteps. He is on record saying numerous times that this would be a minor thing and is totally under control, now he is looking for a scapegoat to deflect attention away from these missteps. And accuracy and factual arguments are not his strong point to say the least. Furthermore a demographic that he relies on disproportionately, ie older voters, are not happy with this record as regarding the pandemic..[/QUOTE]In February when Gino was continually advocating that clubs should selectively deny admission to Asian looking people, I questioned his motive. I said "if any admission denial is to be implemented, it should be done at the borders. It is discriminatory to be denying admission to people based solely on their ethnicity look at the club doors".
At that time, almost no one came to defend my stance. A few took Gino's side. There were multiple messages in those threads, can be easily verified by clicking on my history.
So, I am pretty sure I can be spared all these spurious charges in my direction.
I appreciate the political discourse and insightful lessons from you Delta. The point still remains (a) the origin of the virus is not established because China is blocking any investigation (b) consequently we also have zero clarity on how it spread and how much of the spread and leak was intentional and unintentional (c) yes, many countries are adversely impacted w. R. T. Their economies, including China BUT some are impacted much worse than others, and so far the trends are that China is less impacted than its key geopolitical rivals. If you have proof to refute these points, please do present them. Whether China foresaw how the impact would work out and was prepared to sacrifice a few pawns to capture the Queen of its opponent, that I do not know but there is no proof to say such a thing didn't happen. I will let you put probabilities.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454106]In February when Gino was continually advocating that clubs should selectively deny admission to Asian looking people, I questioned his motive. I said "if any admission denial is to be implemented, it should be done at the borders. It is discriminatory to be denying admission to people based solely on their ethnicity look at the club doors".
At that time, almost no one came to defend my stance. A few took Gino's side. There were multiple messages in those threads, can be easily verified by clicking on my history.
So, I am pretty sure I can be spared all these spurious charges in my direction.
I appreciate the political discourse and insightful lessons from you Delta. The point still remains (a) the origin of the virus is not established because China is blocking any investigation (b) consequently we also have zero clarity on how it spread and how much of the spread and leak was intentional and unintentional (c) yes, many countries are adversely impacted w. R. T. Their economies, including China BUT some are impacted much worse than others, and so far the trends are that China is less impacted than its key geopolitical rivals. If you have proof to refute these points, please do present them. Whether China foresaw how the impact would work out and was prepared to sacrifice a few pawns to capture the Queen of its opponent, that I do not know but there is no proof to say such a thing didn't happen. I will let you put probabilities.[/QUOTE]My argument wasn't about probabilities or the hypothetical chess game, I still think it is an extremely far fetched theory, but about the origin of these theories. You can see that Mr. T and his cohorts have played an enormous role in propagating these theories. A few points that should be obvious to anyone whether you support him or not, honesty is not his strong point and I do differ with you on one point, Pompeo is a total ass kissing sycophant who will say anything to please Mr T not an independent source of information.
The allegations you describe have been spurred in large part by the political face saving theories pushed by this group, that was the gist of my argument. I still think the theory is very far fetched on its merits but I choose to not even go into that this time since you know my arguments in that respect about how futile a strategy I think that would be, but you differ and disagree, that is fine and your opinion. This does boil down to a matter of conviction as well, yes the Chinese can be totally ruthless, but I believe not this ruthless and they would not take risks like this, you believe otherwise. Fine.
All I wanted to point out that a lot of the ammunition for these theories is highly questionable and with obvious political motives.
Yes, we are all aware that world commerce is interlinked, not exactly breaking news. The question is who is hurt more, and if the relative pain is less, is it plausible that a desperate, rogue regime act irresponsibly and take such a horrible step -- the very nature of it being such that even the people living in countries which are being targeted by such action would exclaim "No, they could not do such a thing, could they? No, I don't believe they did. I mean, they could and't, nobody would".
I am looking at Bloomberg screen right now. The expected real GDP in US in 2020 is -5.7% from +2.3% in 2019. Investment is expected to be -9.8% yoy, unemployment is expected to be 11% at year end, exports are expected to -7.1% yoy. Debt as of GDP is expected to surge to 99% from 79% in 2019. In contrast, China's GDP is expected to be +1.8% in 2020 from 6. 1% in 2019, unemployment is expected to move to 4.3% at year end from 3. 6% at the end of 2019, industrial production is expected to be at 1.6% compared to 5.5% for 2019. Germany's GDP is expected to be -6.2% for 2020 from +0. 6% in 2019, Industrial production is expected to be -8.1% yoy, exports -10.9% yoy; France is expected to have GDP -9.1%, Japan real GDP of -4.7%, and so on.
While these are consensus economist expectations and not the actual #s, global economy works on expectations and they do show China is still growing this year and coming out relatively unscathed, especially compared to key global rivals.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2454148]I do differ with you on one point, Pompeo is a total ass kissing sycophant who will say anything to please Mr T not an independent source of information.[/QUOTE]Well, I did not say Pompeo was not a ass kissing sycophant; one has to be, to gain Trump's full confidence.
I said the following: "Pompeo is probably the closest confidant of Trump in his cabinet and Trump fully subscribes to Pompeo views and feels the same way". I did not say Pompeo is an independent source of information -- he does reflect and channel Trump's views but the reason his statements matter more is because he has Trump's confidence (as opposed to say, Tillerson did or Fauci now -- so, when Tillerson or Fauci say something, you can dismiss them as not reflecting the views of POTUS, but when Pompeo says something, he does speak for Trump).
That is the key point I was making -- that the view that the virus is man made and came out of a Wuhan Lab is effectively the view of US government at the moment. We can all disagree but it IS the US government view for now. So, there remains only the second question in their view, which they have not yet articulated but might do so in the future "did Chinese government intentionally leak it?
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454155]Well, I did not say Pompeo was not a ass kissing sycophant; one has to be, to gain Trump's full confidence.
I said the following: "Pompeo is probably the closest confidant of Trump in his cabinet and Trump fully subscribes to Pompeo views and feels the same way". I did not say Pompeo is an independent source of information -- he does reflect and channel Trump's views but the reason his statements matter more is because he has Trump's confidence (as opposed to say, Tillerson did or Fauci now -- so, when Tillerson or Fauci say something, you can dismiss them as not reflecting the views of POTUS, but when Pompeo says something, he does speak for Trump).
That is the key point I was making -- that the view that the virus is man made and came out of a Wuhan Lab is effectively the view of US government at the moment. We can all disagree but it IS the US government view for now. So, there remains only the second question in their view, which they have not yet articulated but might do so in the future "did Chinese government intentionally leak it?[/QUOTE]What do you mean by the US government, Trump and his inner circle? Is that the view of NIH or Fauci, the medical arm of the US government? It has become bizarre with Trump, on the one hand it is his Federal guidelines about distancing and the lock down that he pushes various political allies to protest against. A lot of the time there isn't a coherent view, there is the official view and polite policy on the one hand and Mr T and some prominent allies on the other hand.
So if it just Mr. T and Pompeo, I still wouldn't consider if the "official" view of the US government. Also Mr. T does contradict himself a lot and say one thing one day and the total opposite the next day. He is obviously getting stressed about the prospects of his re election and lashing out at various other parties for blame. Look I am not a doctor or molecular biologist, but I thought the overwhelming consensus is that this is not man made and is totally consistent with natural evolution, there will always be some voices that dissent of course.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454151]Yes, we are all aware that world commerce is interlinked, not exactly breaking news. The question is who is hurt more, and if the relative pain is less, is it plausible that a desperate, rogue regime act irresponsibly and take such a horrible step -- the very nature of it being such that even the people living in countries which are being targeted by such action would exclaim "No, they could not do such a thing, could they? No, I don't believe they did. I mean, they could and't, nobody would".[/QUOTE]Or conspiratorial China? Look, it doesn't matter "who is hurt more" if you did so much damage so as to smash your own economy. That's what we call a "Pyrrhic victory" (at too great a cost to be worthwhile to the victor). Now, I don't know what economic school of thought you come from, but I would suggest that going from a predicted 6. 1% GDP to 1. 8% GDP would be some pretty significant self-inflicted economic damage if they did it on purpose, and far from coming out "unscathed". Not to mention what such a stupid act would do to a country's international reputation. They already have a sketchy reputation for how they handle their internal affairs. To interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, including major trading partners, by intentionally releasing a deadly virus takes it all to another level. I'm no China fan, but I give them credit for being more intelligent than that. Again, it's just another silly conspiracy theory. The world will be better off if we get on with this and start working together to try to solve the problem versus finger pointing and tossing around unfounded charges and conspiracy theories, like it was the USA army that unleashed the virus upon China. Come on people! And by the way, I was one of the few to stand up strong against Gino's posts.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2454167]What do you mean by the US government, Trump and his inner circle? Is that the view of NIH or Fauci, the medical arm of the US government? It has become bizarre with Trump, on the one hand it is his Federal guidelines about distancing and the lock down that he pushes various political allies to protest against. A lot of the time there isn't a coherent view, there is the official view and polite policy on the one hand and Mr T and some prominent allies on the other hand.
So if it just Mr. T and Pompeo, I still wouldn't consider if the "official" view of the US government. Also Mr. T does contradict himself a lot and say one thing one day and the total opposite the next day. He is obviously getting stressed about the prospects of his re election and lashing out at various other parties for blame. Look I am not a doctor or molecular biologist, but I thought the overwhelming consensus is that this is not man made and is totally consistent with natural evolution, there will always be some voices that dissent of course.[/QUOTE]Yes, that is how it works. Fauci can be fired by Trump and replaced with someone else by Trump. Fauci cannot fire Trump and Fauci cannot replace Trump with someone else. Until Jan 20,2021, Trump's views represent the US government views, like it or not. I acknowledge Trump changes his views, but until he does, the latest articulation by Pompeo can be taken as representing the views of POTUS.
Look, I am not taking a personal view on the origin of Corona. I am just saying that US government of which this POTUS speaks with an absolute authority at the current time, has taken a stance. There is not enough info to incontrovertibly refute his stance because any independent investigation has not been allowed. While Trump speaks with a language that can make you wince, other nations have been very unhappy as well. To wit Australia; and relationship between Aussies and China is at all time low, because Australia was bold enough to ask for answers and China does not like nations in its neighborhood who question the mighty China.
I am not aware that any overwhelming scientific consensus on this subject was already formed when the scientists did not have access to the region of origin and were unable to perform any study.
As you say, we can agree to disagree. And I reiterate this is not even my theory nor that I fully subscribe to it. I don't even deny that the probability of this theory being accurate is not too high. But I would not assign a probability of zero, not until it can be proven wrong convincingly; there is no question that on the economy side, the virus has hurt US and EU and even JP considerably worse than it has hurt China, based on the numbers I already printed below.
Motive is a powerful indicator when investigators examine a crime, and the narrowing of economic gap coupled with pressure at home that Xi Jinping has been facing due to trade fallout and slowing economy presents one powerful motive in my view, even if the risk seems extraordinarily foolish.
France forbid chloroquine, more dangerous and killer than efficient to cure from virus, no competition with Trump. Western Europe don't even tell about japanese avigan, for efficiency versus virus.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2454172]Or conspiratorial China? Look, it doesn't matter "who is hurt more" if you did so much damage so as to smash your own economy. That's what we call a "Pyrrhic victory" (at too great a cost to be worthwhile to the victor). Now, I don't know what economic school of thought you come from, but I would suggest that going from a predicted 6. 1% GDP to 1. 8% GDP would be some pretty significant self-inflicted economic damage if they did it on purpose, and far from coming out "unscathed". Not to mention what such a stupid act would do to a country's international reputation. They already have a sketchy reputation for how they handle their internal affairs. To interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, including major trading partners, by intentionally releasing a deadly virus takes it all to another level. I'm no China fan, but I give them more credit for being more intelligent than that. Again, it's just another silly conspiracy theory. The world will be better off if we get on with this and start working together to try to solve the problem versus finger pointing and tossing around unfounded charges and conspiracy theories, like it was the USA army that unleashed the virus upon China. Come on people! And by the way, I was one of the few to stand up strong against Gino's posts.[/QUOTE]Well, I appreciate that you stood up against Gino but his fire was directed at me from start to finish (he has been pretty silent, hasn't he been; hmm hope he is doing OK). I even have been skipping GT for a while now, although it very much helps that I no longer like this club in making my "principled decision" hehe.
Anyway, I come from the school that says China has a rogue regime which is impeding an investigation that is in the interest of all nations given the amount of global damage that got inflicted on everyone, whether it is number of lives lost or the economic damage inflicted. And yes, US lost in many ways big time but it may be that the biggest price to be paid in the end would be coming from the unfortunate nations in LatAM (Brazil is getting decimated as we speak, it is a pure heart break nation at the moment), India and Africa and Pakistan and Bangladesh, and so on.
"what such a stupid act would do to a country's international reputation" -- well, I can submit to you that China's international reputation was far from being sterling and is much worse now than it has ever been. So, if "The world will be better off if we get on with this and start working together to try to solve the problem", a huge part of the working together begins with understanding the origin of the virus and its nature and this very much constitutes what an epidemiologist does except in this instance they can't and no prizes for guessing why such an investigation is not happening.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2454172]Or conspiratorial China? Look, it doesn't matter "who is hurt more" if you did so much damage so as to smash your own economy. That's what we call a "Pyrrhic victory" (at too great a cost to be worthwhile to the victor). Now, I don't know what economic school of thought you come from, but I would suggest that going from a predicted 6. 1% GDP to 1. 8% GDP would be some pretty significant self-inflicted economic damage if they did it on purpose, and far from coming out "unscathed". Not to mention what such a stupid act would do to a country's international reputation. They already have a sketchy reputation for how they handle their internal affairs. To interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, including major trading partners, by intentionally releasing a deadly virus takes it all to another level. I'm no China fan, but I give them more credit for being more intelligent than that. Again, it's just another silly conspiracy theory. The world will be better off if we get on with this and start working together to try to solve the problem versus finger pointing and tossing around unfounded charges and conspiracy theories, like it was the USA army that unleashed the virus upon China. Come on people! And by the way, I was one of the few to stand up strong against Gino's posts.[/QUOTE]I also think the whole theory is quite ludicrous, but I am trying to refute the theory in a civilized tone. I was a student of Economics and without saying much more so that I don't reveal who I am, some close relatives of mine are Economics Professors, one of whom studies the Chinese economy quite closely.
The Chinese growth statistics are always a bit exaggerated and pumped up, some people say by a little, others say by a lot, I once had read in the Economist that 8% growth statistics in China point to a stagnant economy, this was in 2008 and now the baseline has shifted, more like 4% probably represents no real growth. There is a lot of controversy about figures in a society that is not at all transparent, but something similar is said about Chinese debt, Gordon Chang's writings discuss this in great detail, he said Chinese government debt is not really 50% of GDP but more like 200% when the debts of state owned enterprises are factored in. Not everyone agrees with him, but I can give you a source on this one, [URL]https://nationalinterest.org/feature/chinas-debt-debacle-68417[/URL] But anyhow it is quite clear to me that when the Chinese government reports figures of below 2% growth the actual situation is far worse. I concede to Pessimist that the West's growth figures are worse, but this is what you would expect from a middle income emerging market anyhow. Those countries grow faster and recover faster, sometimes (basket cases like Argentina) they fall even further but that is not common. But what has happened to China, even though it is arguably not as painful as what the US is enduring, is in no uncertain terms very politically painful for the CCP.
The shred of political legitimacy that the CCP has, the reason it has the modern "mandate of heaven" is because it is supposed to ensure prosperity and a rising standard of living. I would say this pandemic and the economic damage to China's largest trading partners is something that neither Xi nor the CCP would like to go through or are enjoying, far from it. Yes Xi has becoming increasingly authoritarian and bold, but that was in the face of relative economic success during the last decade, now this has been set back enormously.
About the virus being man made, I will let others read these sources, [URL]https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html[/URL] and [URL]https://www.bettergov.org/news/fact-check-no-the-novel-coronavirus-was-not-man-made/[/URL].
I am not a molecular biologist, but that is the basis of my assertion that a scientific consensus seems to exist that the virus is natural. What we do know and is well known and not a dark secret that due to various epidemics, by the ways bats are responsible for many corona viruses, that Chinese doctors and scientists were harvesting natural viruses and studying them in a lab to better understand them. They might have made a mistake, but I would strongly doubt that they deliberately released it.
We do live in an age, when people literally will believe anything, conspiracy theories are very popular in general, please note that I am not talking about this one in particular and I am not aiming this comment at any one person. A careful and nuanced understanding of the underlying socio-economic, political and scientific facts actually explains and reveals a lot.
Please understand that I am not aiming this as an attack on anyone in particular, I think Pessimistic has been very cordial and civilized in this discussion. However I am honestly articulating what I think of conspiracy theories in general, often the arguments behind them are poorly backed up. If is of course far costlier to explain complex things in detail.
One last point, proving the counter factual is impossible. So if someone says something like prove God does not exist, that is not possible and does not prove God does exist. Same with this issue, prove it didn't happen is a logically and philosophically inane line of argument.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2454191]The shred of political legitimacy that the CCP has, the reason it has the modern "mandate of heaven" is because it is supposed to ensure prosperity and a rising standard of living. I would say this pandemic and the economic damage to China's largest trading partners is something that neither Xi nor the CCP would like to go through or are enjoying, far from it. Yes Xi has becoming increasingly authoritarian and bold, but that was in the face of relative economic success during the last decade, now this has been set back enormously..[/QUOTE]I am not at all in disagreement that China's economic data is generally untrustworthy and anyone who is a market participant has known that much and learned how to triangulate data to get some sense of reality over the years. Trillions of dollars are invested in markets and those are not based on wild guesswork. There is a broad consensus that China is hurt much less by covid, the Bloomberg #s I presented below is the consensus of all economists which are surveyed by Bloomberg and that includes all the large banks such as Goldman and MS to independent ones like ISI and so on. Western companies that sell in China also tell us how things are coming back to life in China vs in the west. You can dispute the relative health all you want but there is no dispute among economists as of now. As for whether it is a conspiracy theory, wildly off conspiracy theory -- those are just adjectives. I already said very clearly I put the probability at a low amount but also that you can't prove the probability is zero.
As for Xi -- he would not be first one to have made a stupid decision, would he? Wag the dog theory applies to even China, not just US or West. Whipping up nationalism when one's political back is to the wall is a time honored tradition. Will it backfire on him, was it a stupid decision if he indeed made such a decision? Only time will tell, but even if it hurts him or helps him, that is with the help of hindsight. The question is, was there any motivation and did he have the means to take that decision and act on it? In my view, yes. Whether he actually did, we will never know.
Take a ride on the metro in Suzhou (population 6. 5 + million,2 million e scooters) or Shanghai. Hop on a fast train from Guangzhou (canton) to Beijing. My Suzhou supplier says that only the "grocery stores are busy making money. 60% of Alibaba (Tao Bao are knock-offs, poor quality" I bought a shop vac, French chocolate, japanese pill cutters, genuine corona and German beer that arrived one day later. Only the rural provinces and backwaters are a "developing country" Every country has an underground economy. The MS-13 gang members repatriated to their home countries are multinational now. Banksters launder their profits. Weapons bought by straw men and Eric Holder in the USA flow freely. The only no no for the Mossad is whacking a head of state. Not so for the CIA. Well, they make the "economy scream" in Chile and train the military at Fort Benning and bomb appropriate targets in Libya with help from Tony Blair. Trump will never run out of enemies or someone else to blame. The Chinese communist Party has a long term plan while POTUS is busy painting himself into a corner while his minions steal everything that isn't nailed down. Wet markets with wild animals are all over Asia.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454174]I am not aware that any overwhelming scientific consensus on this subject was already formed when the scientists did not have access to the region of origin and were unable to perform any study.[/QUOTE]Scientists can look at the RNA in the samples to determine if it is man made or not, they need not go to Wuhan to make this conclusion. I agree that China is in the wrong for blocking investigations of the Wuhan labs. It suggests a possible cover-up. Maybe scientists did not follow proper safety protocols and caught the virus from infected animals, resulting in an accidental spread to the general population.
Press statement from Director of National Intelligence website:
[QUOTE]"The Intelligence Community also concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the COVID-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified. he IC will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan."
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/item/2112-intelligence-community-statement-on-origins-of-covid-19[/QUOTE][QUOTE=TheCane;2454172]Or conspiratorial China? Look, it doesn't matter "who is hurt more" if you did so much damage so as to smash your own economy. That's what we call a "Pyrrhic victory" (at too great a cost to be worthwhile to the victor). Now, I don't know what economic school of thought you come from, but I would suggest that going from a predicted 6. 1% GDP to 1. 8% GDP would be some pretty significant self-inflicted economic damage if they did it on purpose, and far from coming out "unscathed". Not to mention what such a stupid act would do to a country's international reputation. They already have a sketchy reputation for how they handle their internal affairs. To interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, including major trading partners, by intentionally releasing a deadly virus takes it all to another level. I'm no China fan, but I give them credit for being more intelligent than that.[/QUOTE]Good point about international reputation. The world does not differentiate Chinese companies from the CCP. The suspicion that the CCP's tentacles can reach deep into Chinese companies creates a certain level of distrust amongst free nations. This is why many EU nations were on the fence (or opposed a deal) with Huawei for their 5 G rollout. This was true even before CV-19. If it is found that CV-19 was used as a bioweapon intentionally, all trust is eroded to zero and the 5 G deal is scuttled completely. Even now that deal is in jeopardy, as is Huawei's future existence. The question is would the CCP sacrifice one of its tech giants for a Pyrrhic victory? The irony, of course, it that is widely believed that US intel agencies used Cisco, a private company, as an arm to spy on it European allies: [URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/us-germany-spying/germany-should-ban-u-s-contracting-companies-passing-data-to-nsa-report-idUSBRE9BK07P20131221[/URL].
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2454208]Scientists can look at the RNA in the samples to determine if it is man made or not, they need not go to Wuhan to make this conclusion. I agree that China is in the wrong for blocking investigations of the Wuhan labs. It suggests a possible cover-up. Maybe scientists did not follow proper safety protocols and caught the virus from infected animals, resulting in an accidental spread to the general population.
Press statement from Director of National Intelligence website:
Good point about international reputation. The world does not differentiate Chinese companies from the CCP. The suspicion that the CCP's tentacles can reach deep into Chinese companies creates a certain level of distrust amongst free nations. This is why many EU nations were on the fence (or opposed a deal) with Huawei for their 5 G rollout. This was true even before CV-19. If it is found that CV-19 was used as a bioweapon intentionally, all trust is eroded to zero and the 5 G deal is scuttled completely. Even now that deal is in jeopardy, as is Huawei's future existence. The question is would the CCP sacrifice one of its tech giants for a Pyrrhic victory?.[/QUOTE]China's industrial and governmental espionage goes much further than mere Hua Wei and I am sorry, this false equivalence between Cisco and Hua Wei or what China does to what US does is generally not accepted by anyone in the West. Hua Wei is guilty of much more than espionage. It killed much of European tech industry in the telecommunications hardware segment. There used to be dozens of companies in Europe healthy and prosperous and providing good jobs in Europe and now you have just Nokia and Ericsson both very much weakened (Ericsson ADR stock price was $70 in 2000 and now under $9 while Nokia ADR was at $48 in 2000 and now under $4). Due to Hua Wei's price dumping actions supported by Chinese government unlimited interest free financing, Hua Wei has stolen a March on them, not to mention stealing industrial secrets. European nations are split, none can stand up against China on their own as they are not strong or big enough, and they have too many internecine squabbles to stand together, and China has exploited this rift to perfection. Not just in telecommunications but in so many walks of economy. The biggest danger is in automobile segment. Germany is hugely dependent on automobiles for its economy and if China is able to inflict the kind of damage in autos as it did in telecom, it will be terrible for German economy and we all know how important is Germany to Europe.
In short, there are hundreds if not thousands of examples of what a rogue and insidious state Chinese regime has been. Support it if you will, but Corona is forcing many to finally confront the truth which they should have done a while ago.
As for the virus investigation, if it was easy enough to trace it all the way back w / o any help from China, western scientists would have done that already. When every nation is saying that China is blocking an investigation, you can take it that China is indeed blocking a real investigation. I will let you put a benign spin on why they are doing it or that they don't really have much to hide even though they are the ones hiding whatever they are hiding.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454350]As for the virus investigation, if it was easy enough to trace it all the way back w / o any help from China, western scientists would have done that already. When every nation is saying that China is blocking an investigation, you can take it that China is indeed blocking a real investigation. I will let you put a benign spin on why they are doing it or that they don't really have much to hide even though they are the ones hiding whatever they are hiding.[/QUOTE]China is most likely hiding that there was some sort of accident at the lab. I posted a link from Dot Gov website, not some liberal rag. This link from the [B]Director of National Intelligence[/B] states that the scientific consensus believes the virus is not man made. There is consensus on climate change amongst the scientific community as well, yet some politicians continue to discredit climate change. This is a recurring theme. The tragedy is that science is partly what made the USA the most powerful nation on earth. Internet, space program, etc. Here is a opinion piece from American astrophysicist:
[QUOTE]"If you're serious about making America great again -- and by "again," I mean greater than it's ever been, and greater than any country in the world is by any metric -- this is what it'll take. Science is how we became great in the first place. It's only by doing more and better science, and by listening to the robust scientific conclusions, whatever they may say, that we'll have the greatest version of America possible. But we have to be willing to invest, and we have to be willing to accept and listen to truths that may range from uncomfortable to disconcerting to outrageous. The choice is ours: invest in science and improve, or don't. We've borne the consequences of stagnation from under-investing for many decades now. If we're serious about making our country (and our world) as great as we possibly can, it's time to band together, to invest in our future, and -- if we really want to go the whole way -- to start thinking like scientists whenever we can."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/startswithabang/2016/09/27/science-is-what-made-america-great
[/QUOTE]"Scientists Reach 100% Consensus on Anthropogenic Global Warming": [URL]https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0270467619886266[/URL].
[QUOTE=MrHo;2452239]China as capacity of country beat Japan, they are ranked second now in the world due to their quantity and Japan is guilty for that as we are one of the main nation who gave them technology.
However, it is not all black and white, Japan unlike most nations, we have so much actual cash cows, I won't name all companies, but whether it is sony, panasonic, toshiba, mitsubishi ufj bank, mitsui sumitomo bank or uniqlo or omron or cannon and so on lists are endless as I hope you least know, these are all Japanese companies and most of our companies are all in top 10 or top 5 in the world in all sectors of different industries, where as China only has few of that at the moment and mostly are still factories, as they are called the factories of world and hey usa trying to pull out, Japan is trying to pull out and hopefully rest of world including France who made this failed virus laboratory in wuhan China too. It is just quantity power of China, look at that nation look their insane size and hey look at Japan, it is tiny island nation who got to top fast because we are organized, honest, disciplined, good refined sophisticated culture (this also France and Italy too) and most importantly intelligent. But size did beat Japan, but like in most things in life it is matter of time, I hope for world. China is not safe due to their communist government, people are OK, but tend to cheat a lot, so let see if that culture change, they are opposite of how japanese people are, we are honest being who focus on quality that got us to top.[/QUOTE]Salaam Ho-san.
My respect for China and Japan has nothing to do with economics or even public health, but rather the secrets that they hold. Civilizations this ancient must know things that Western countries never picked up.
Consider the great importance the Chinese have attached to filial piety. One ancient master compiled a book of 24 stories with examples of sons and daughters honoring their parents in extreme ways. [URL]https://www2.kenyon.edu/Depts/Religion/Fac/Adler/Reln270/24-filial1.htm[/URL].
It is recounted that a Chinese man once visited Japan, and proudly showed his host this book, saying, "What can you show me that can compare to this exceptional devotion? In Japan do you have 24 cases of such filial piety?" The Japanese replied that they had no need of such a book in his culture. It would be like writing a book to say that a stone ought to fall when it is dropped. The extraordinary thing would be to find 24 cases of the absence of filial piety.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454350]China's industrial and governmental espionage goes much further than mere Hua Wei and I am sorry, this false equivalence between Cisco and Hua Wei or what China does to what US does is generally not accepted by anyone in the West. Hua Wei is guilty of much more than espionage. It killed much of European tech industry in the telecommunications hardware segment. There used to be dozens of companies in Europe healthy and prosperous and providing good jobs in Europe and now you have just Nokia and Ericsson both very much weakened (Ericsson ADR stock price was $70 in 2000 and now under $9 while Nokia ADR was at $48 in 2000 and now under $4). Due to Hua Wei's price dumping actions supported by Chinese government unlimited interest free financing, Hua Wei has stolen a March on them, not to mention stealing industrial secrets. European nations are split, none can stand up against China on their own as they are not strong or big enough, and they have too many internecine squabbles to stand together, and China has exploited this rift to perfection. Not just in telecommunications but in so many walks of economy. The biggest danger is in automobile segment. Germany is hugely dependent on automobiles for its economy and if China is able to inflict the kind of damage in autos as it did in telecom, it will be terrible for German economy and we all know how important is Germany to Europe..[/QUOTE]Killing European companies when Huawei or Samsung are not same quality than what was Nokia, when I had Nokia mobiles from 1995 to 2019 and I regret their quality. China and most of Asia are just for cheap, not for quality. If you drive Audi because I think best quality now after Porsche, out of Bugatti, Rolls, Bentley and Aston, then you will never buy Chinese or Korean car Kia or Hunday or SangYong, and I don't see in Japan when Nissan GTR is powered by legendary European Cosworth which powered beloved car for nearly 25 years of my life, legendary, my rodeo girl, RS500 . Western Europe have to protect better our safety, health and our own level of quality, nobody else, not even US, can compete with. I think Germany is understanding Europe is their main market when some others are falling, even before virus, and we have to learn from this crisis to become stronger.
On other point, US are now more than 100 000 deaths and larger than France Texas is falling for petrol, meat markets with many unemployment. French journalists there showed us images of people threatening others, not having mask and coughing on others face, crazy Trump is making many crazy dangerous like for weapons, when they are far worst country and not finished there for virus, when really slow now in Europe. Of course, nobody know about real Chinese figures, to try to protect their economy already falling before virus, but not our standard of quality, but only cheap, like tests which were not reliable, to protect our health. Just dangerous.
- Xi knew about the corona virus at least 6 days before the announcement. Those 6 days were essential for the virus to spread into an epidemic.
- The reason for the holdout was the CCP meeting in March, and any SARS like epidemic would be considered a safety threat to the regime itself. Thus they chose to try and hide it. The memo for the conversation meeting where this was discussed can be found online, if you search for it. Ironically the CCP meeting in March were never held due to covid 19.
- There are absolutely no way to find out if the virus was made by human scientists at the Wuhan lab, unless you do thorough testing at the Wuhan lab in question. If you think otherwise, then you are massively underestimating gene science as of 2019.
- Huawei was not at the center of the Cisco (other US companies were also involved IIRC) scandal, but two other original equipment manufacturers in China who made some of the parts for Huawei. So even if Huawei themselves has, or had all the good intentions possible, due to their size and global intentions, their very own chinese industrial component network in which they rely heavily upon, might have different intention. With CCP funded bonus checks in mind, and lower risk of potential losses. Just take a trip to Shenzhen yourself, and you will find large parts of this industrial network situated in shopping mall sweatshops with teenage workers, earning terrible wages, working like crazy 12 hours a day. And if they as much as look up if you say Hi or talk to them, the manager comes over and yells at them. As was seen by yours truly some 8 years ago. This is hard to compete against for anyone under western labor laws.
[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2454202]Take a ride on the metro in Suzhou (population 6. 5 + million,2 million e scooters) or Shanghai. Hop on a fast train from Guangzhou (canton) to Beijing. My Suzhou supplier says that only the "grocery stores are busy making money. 60% of Alibaba (Tao Bao are knock-offs, poor quality" I bought a shop vac, French chocolate, japanese pill cutters, genuine corona and German beer that arrived one day later. Only the rural provinces and backwaters are a "developing country" Every country has an underground economy. The MS-13 gang members repatriated to their home countries are multinational now. Banksters launder their profits. Weapons bought by straw men and Eric Holder in the USA flow freely. The only no no for the Mossad is whacking a head of state. Not so for the CIA. Well, they make the "economy scream" in Chile and train the military at Fort Benning and bomb appropriate targets in Libya with help from Tony Blair. Trump will never run out of enemies or someone else to blame. The Chinese communist Party has a long term plan while POTUS is busy painting himself into a corner while his minions steal everything that isn't nailed down. Wet markets with wild animals are all over Asia.[/QUOTE]LOL, yeah the wet market blame is just laughable.
But going back to Libya and Blair is history. And handing Trump the idea of power in a western world being run by central banks and bildenbergs is a joke. What worries me is how the microphone known as Trump is being used to clamp down on social media also in the west. In essence making the USA as much into a fascist run part of the world as China is under CCP. But it is not Trump. It is the people behind Trump. Trump himself is indebted massively. If you want to know who holds the power, just follow the money. The same can be said for China and Russia. Xi however has a lot more power in China, but that is why he and the regime around him is so terrified of the world around them which 'may cause instability', that every single epidemic is being hushed at. And you cannot beat it. It is the almighty greenback. Backed by the almighty US army.
Always follow the money.
As a side point, being honest in China sends you to jail. Lying gives you a promotion. This is the climate one operates in when trying to fight the international world bodies under a fascist run state regime.
Just look at China's second in command and his very own track record at lying to his own people, and put this history lesson up against the corona outbreak:
[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2240830/amp/Chinas-new-leader-Henan-Li-led-hospital-cover-saw-300k-people-infected-HIV.html[/URL]
Cheers! Have a Corona Extra!
I suppose one good thing about Europe being so defragmented is that we won't get our egos up high enough to drive politics and the society in a facist direction. Something in which seems to be an historically appropriate turn of events in a buildup to a large war. Either cold or warm.
And when it comes to Japanese companies, sure Sony is big. But they were bigger I seem to recall. Panasonic too I believe, and their TV's are much worse than the Korean ones. Mitsubishi used to have OK cars. Now I don't see any, but they do have their bank I suppose. Canon? Are they still alive? I thought they died 15 years ago with the smartphone arrivals. Toshiba only has those sd memory cards left. The rest of the company is a balance sheet disaster. And Toyota? Well, they can automate production like none others. Still alive and well, but how well will they do in the years to come with EV cars? No one knows yet. Honda and Suzuki are both into this global merging thing that has been going on just to save face. The same can be said about French cars. All non competitive. Only Tesla and the German cars are competitive globally in my view. Everyone else aside from Toyota are copycats.
But it is not a Japanese only story. The same trend is seen in Europe and north America. Only the venture capital firms are still alive. Running from some tax heaven on a tropical island with 0 or near 0 taxes. Japan does have their Softbank, but I am sure that guy has some tax incentives too where he runs it from.
Seems Softbank is not Japanese. It is registered in Bermuda.
[URL]https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2018/04/18/business/corporate-business/softbank-failed-report-income-%C2%A593-9-billion-tax-haven-units-sources-say/[/URL]#. XtDcyGmxVzA.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2454429]China is most likely hiding that there was some sort of accident at the lab. I posted a link from Dot Gov website, not some liberal rag. This link from the [B]Director of National Intelligence[/B] states that the scientific consensus believes the virus is not man made. There is consensus on climate change amongst the scientific community as well, yet some politicians continue to discredit climate change. This is a recurring theme. The tragedy is that science is partly what made the USA the most powerful nation on earth. Internet, space program, etc. Here is a opinion piece from American astrophysicist:
"Scientists Reach 100% Consensus on Anthropogenic Global Warming": [URL]https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0270467619886266[/URL].[/QUOTE]I do not think it is appropriate to expand the topic of discussion to include some other topic to support a particular point of view. I do not think throwing in a second topic into the mix in anyway provides evidence to a particular side of the argument in the first topic. However, you are obviously welcome to bring in all these additional topics such as global warming into the mix.
As for the virus itself, saying something like "scientists believe" is not a particularly compelling evidence or conclusion. Virus origination is an issue which can be established with a good amount of accuracy as I understood. It is not something which scientists "need to believe" - if they are able to investigate, they can actually trace it all the way back. We are not able to do it because the country of origin has blocked all efforts in that direction. And I will also point out that this is a fast evolving situation. Our understanding of the virus, what works and what doesn't, what it is or not, are all evolving. Till a few days ago, children were thought to be fairly safe and then they found some symptoms along the lines of Kawasaki syndrome. CDC did not think masks were super helpful and then they changed their recommendation. To think that some consensus has already been established is just not credible. Who are the scientists included in this consensus poll? To take a snippet from a particular website and present it does not mean that argument has gained any great amount of credibility. The US government has several dozens of agencies and each with their own websites, and each site has thousands of pages. Not all of these pages are updated in real time and not all of them are consistent. If you want to "prove your pov" by posting a snippet from a particular page that says "scientists believe this is not man made", yes you will find a page I am sure. But I wonder how any consensus is already formed in less than a few months of virus outbreak, when these scientists were not able to conduct the sort of investigation that they normally do to come to such conclusions and consensus, and why is it necessary to believe anything as if it is an article of faith instead of doing a thorough investigation. I also wonder why it is that you are more eager to find faults and shortcomings in the acceptance of science in US society while it is the rogue regime in China that is blocking an investigation which is of enormous help and interest to all humanity. Regardless of what you think of science and it's acceptance in the US society, if you see the technology or healthcare industries, the market share of US companies and the wealth generated by US based companies in these sectors has continually increased over time.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2454552]I suppose one good thing about Europe being so defragmented is that we won't get our egos up high enough to drive politics and the society in a facist direction. Something in which seems to be an historically appropriate turn of events in a buildup to a large war. Either cold or warm.
And when it comes to Japanese companies, sure Sony is big. But they were bigger I seem to recall. Panasonic too I believe, and their TV's are much worse than the Korean ones. Mitsubishi used to have OK cars. Now I don't see any, but they do have their bank I suppose. Canon? Are they still alive? I thought they died 15 years ago with the smartphone arrivals. Toshiba only has those sd memory cards left. The rest of the company is a balance sheet disaster. And Toyota? Well, they can automate production like none others. Still alive and well, but how well will they do in the years to come with EV cars? No one knows yet. Honda and Suzuki are both into this global merging thing that has been going on just to save face. The same can be said about French cars. All non competitive. Only Tesla and the German cars are competitive globally in my view. Everyone else aside from Toyota are copycats.[/QUOTE]I wish Europe was stronger. Or more united. In this bipolar world, we increasingly need a stronger Europe. I find the work life balance they have achieved more attractive than what I find in the US with its never ending treadmill. But if anything, Europe has continuously lost ground since 2009 and the gap between US to Europe or China to Europe has gone against Europe in 12 years. If I could make my pay check in the US and spend it in Europe, that would be a most attractive life, that's what I want. I bet a lot of American men would take such a deal.
As for the companies you mentioned, here are some numbers: Sony had revenue of $84 be in fiscal 2011, now it is at $75 be. It is actually one of the stronger tech companies in Japan and has a market value of $80 be now but that is compared to Apple at $1,380 be as an example. Panasonic had sales of $99 be in fiscal 2012, now it is $69 B. Toshiba had sales of $75 be in fiscal 2012, now $32 be. Canon has revenues of $32 be now, vs $44 be in fiscal 2011 (Canon makes very good office products such as the main parts of printers that HP sells, strong in imaging systems, medical equipment, etc). Toyota is still strong, $200 be sales in 2010, $275 be now. Softbank is extremely indebted, Masa Son had the good fortune of investing in Alibaba early but his luck has run out now, too many mistakes of late.
Here are a couple of counter examples.
The second one has 3 authors of which 2 have Chinese sounding names.
The point of this: There is a lo of work being done as we speak. To claim that the origin of virus is already settled science, "there is broad scientific consensus it is not man made" is not accurate when researchers are saying work needs to be done to investigate the origins. The Flinders team is one of the leaders in a vaccine development in Australia, per media articles. I don't know how good are the second paper's authors. But how do we know their research is less valid? As I asked "who is included in this broad scientific consensus"? And who is excluded? How did scientific consensus rush to reach such broad based consensus so fast?
The study, led by Flinders University scientists, compared the modeling to the virus's ability to bind to human cells and found the SARS-CoV-2 virus targets humans more potently than any of the tested animal species.
"The results clearly show that the COVID-19 virus is exquisitely adapted to infect humans," says Flinders University Professor Nikolai Petrovsky, lead author of a new paper just published online in arXiv, a leading US preprint server for researchers.
"The virus's ability to bind protein on human cells was far greater than its ability to bind the same protein in bats, which argues against bats being a direct source of the human virus."
The team's computer modeling shows the SARS-CoV-2 virus also bound strongly to cells of pangolins, an exotic ant-eater illegally imported into China.
"While it has been suggested by some Chinese scientists that the COVID-19 virus might have been transmitted to humans from pangolins, currently available data does not support this idea," Professor Petrovsky says.
How and where the SARS-CoV-2 virus adapted to become such an effective human pathogen remains a mystery, the scientists conclude, adding that finding the origins of the disease will help efforts to protect people against future coronavirus pandemics.
The research points to a number of reasons why the virus became so well adapted to humans, such as convergent evolution after exposure to human cells, rare mutations that mix two species genes, and exposure to human cells very early in the pandemic.
But how and where the SARS-CoV-2 virus adapted to become such an effective human pathogen remains a mystery that requires intensive further scientific investigation, the researchers conclude.
[URL]https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-covid-mystery.html[/URL]
In a side-by-side comparison of evolutionary dynamics between the 2019/2020 SARS-CoV-2 and the 2003 SARS-CoV, we were surprised to find that SARS-CoV-2 resembles SARS-CoV in the late phase of the 2003 epidemic after SARS-CoV had developed several advantageous adaptations for human transmission. Our observations suggest that by the time SARS-CoV-2 was first detected in late 2019, it was already pre-adapted to human transmission to an extent similar to late epidemic SARS-CoV. However, no precursors or branches of evolution stemming from a less human-adapted SARS-CoV-2-like virus have been detected. The sudden appearance of a highly infectious SARS-CoV-2 presents a major cause for concern that should motivate stronger international efforts to identify the source and prevent near future re-emergence.
[URL]https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1[/URL]
Climate change:
There is no denying that humans have had a hand in climate change, but the question is if this was planned or not. Or just a result of water shortages around the world:
[URL]https://www.etcgroup.org/content/chinas-plan-engineer-himalayan-clouds-geoengineering-unintentional-or-otherwise[/URL]
We know that lower clouds cools down the temperature, and that higher up clouds warms the temperature. This is undisputed. So guess what happens when we drain all the water away from the lower cloud layers.
The administrator determines what is allowed. A poster on the Thai forum was allowed a special thread: "stupid shit" for his boasting. But it migrates to other threads. Nobody knows the difference any more. Administration does. Steve Stills wrote in his song For what it's worth: "Step out of line, the man, the man he comes and takes you away".
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454568]As for the virus itself, saying something like "scientists believe" is not a particularly compelling evidence or conclusion. Virus origination is an issue which can be established with a good amount of accuracy as I understood. It is not something which scientists "need to believe" - if they are able to investigate, they can actually trace it all the way back. We are not able to do it because the country of origin has blocked all efforts in that direction. And I will also point out that this is a fast evolving situation. Our understanding of the virus, what works and what doesn't, what it is or not, are all evolving. Till a few days ago, children were thought to be fairly safe and then they found some symptoms along the lines of Kawasaki syndrome. CDC did not think masks were super helpful and then they changed their recommendation.[/QUOTE]My understanding is the CDC asked the public not to buy N95 masks, because they were in limited supply and needed to be prioritized for medical workers who were most at risk. If science truly believed masks provided zero defense to airborne viruses, then medical workers would not have worn them either. The CDC flip-flopped on the idea of the general public wearing cloth masks. There was never a consensus reached on that subject. In fact, there is still an open debate on the efficacy of cloth masks, especially if people do not wear them properly or care for them. So the CDC might flip-flop on this again in another three months. Even if scientific consensus is reached, politicians can still override scientific recommendations if it does not adhere to their political, moral, religious viewpoints, or economic interests.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454568]I also wonder why it is that you are more eager to find faults and shortcomings in the acceptance of science in US society while it is the rogue regime in China that is blocking an investigation which is of enormous help and interest to all humanity. Regardless of what you think of science and it's acceptance in the US society, if you see the technology or healthcare industries, the market share of US companies and the wealth generated by US based companies in these sectors has continually increased over time.[/QUOTE]I never questioned America's scientific prowess. Quite the contrary, I said that science was what made America great and hopefully science continues to make America great. The sheer number of American Nobel Prize winners in science validates this. The world's best universities are in the USA. The world's best minds continue to immigrate to USA (over a third of Nobel Prize in science winners since 2000 are immigrants). I am starting to get the impression that you believe that I am anti-American, and I suspect your opinion is partly due to me saying that the virus was not man-made. You are free to believe this. But let me also say this. My opinion that the virus is not man-made is also shared by US Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Mark Milley, who has over 40 years of military service. Also my opinion could change, as new evidence is disclosed. Maybe I am just brainwashed. Maybe I am too deferential to experts.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2454552]I suppose one good thing about Europe being so defragmented is that we won't get our egos up high enough to drive politics and the society in a facist direction. Something in which seems to be an historically appropriate turn of events in a buildup to a large war. Either cold or warm.
And when it comes to Japanese companies, sure Sony is big. But they were bigger I seem to recall. Panasonic too I believe, and their TV's are much worse than the Korean ones. Mitsubishi used to have OK cars. Now I don't see any, but they do have their bank I suppose. Canon? Are they still alive? I thought they died 15 years ago with the smartphone arrivals. Toshiba only has those sd memory cards left. The rest of the company is a balance sheet disaster. And Toyota? Well, they can automate production like none others. Still alive and well, but how well will they do in the years to come with EV cars? No one knows yet. Honda and Suzuki are both into this global merging thing that has been going on just to save face. The same can be said about French cars. All non competitive. Only Tesla and the German cars are competitive globally in my view. Everyone else aside from Toyota are copycats.[/QUOTE]What about Bugatti quality made in France? When French Peugeot cars have usually the best balance: You take 308 with 150 power, you take V40, A3, A class, 118, Golf, You take also Megane, all with 150 power, cars around 30 000 €, you go to test on Nurburgring, winner will be 308 , no other will compete in curves, Megane should be in top 3. Megane RS is the fastest in this category in Nurburgring. Same You take 508, with A4, 318, see class, all with same power, and 508 will be ahead. Best balance, best efficiency for grip, no need for quattro, 4 matic, xdrive. German cars are famous but don t mean they are all high quality or better quality, just difference of culture when German cars are built for free speed autobahns, when You will be faster on french motorways than in Germany full of works with 80 or 60 speed limits. Tesla is just impressive joke for me, if I rent a Tesla in Germany, I m pretty sure I can t drive Dusseldorf Frankfurt free speed. To succeed, I will have to drive as fast as on bicycle. Hybrid with hydrogen seem much more interesting technique for me, when electric is just a lie, first you can drive only Hollywood Boulevard, not longer, and You just move the problem, no more pollution in Hollywood, but you make a lot of pollution to build battery in poor countries and what do you do with old battery? Just a big lie, nobody tell about. I will never buy any electric car killing poor people to make rich breathing better. Same like virus killing more poor than rich. Even electric cars start very fast, but after, they are heavy and you can't really drive, they are made for snails in Switzerland.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454602]
But how and where the SARS-CoV-2 virus adapted to become such an effective human pathogen remains a mystery that requires intensive further scientific investigation, the researchers conclude.
[URL]https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-05-covid-mystery.html[/URL]
In a side-by-side comparison of evolutionary dynamics between the 2019/2020 SARS-CoV-2 and the 2003 SARS-CoV, we were surprised to find that SARS-CoV-2 resembles SARS-CoV in the late phase of the 2003 epidemic after SARS-CoV had developed several advantageous adaptations for human transmission. Our observations suggest that by the time SARS-CoV-2 was first detected in late 2019, it was already pre-adapted to human transmission to an extent similar to late epidemic SARS-CoV. However, no precursors or branches of evolution stemming from a less human-adapted SARS-CoV-2-like virus have been detected. The sudden appearance of a highly infectious SARS-CoV-2 presents a major cause for concern that should motivate stronger international efforts to identify the source and prevent near future re-emergence.
[URL]https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1[/URL][/QUOTE]Yes this is a rare evolutionary development and many things are not fully understood about it. But where does it say in any of those articles that it was man made?
Viruses do occasionally evolve in an unpredictable manner, the explanation isn't that complex, the more humans intrude into previously untouched natural realms, the higher the chance of something like this happening.
We are not sure how this happened, eating exotic animals or a study of bats, but this is far from unimaginable.
All the major diseases we have today, tuberculosis and so on, came from the agrarian revolution and were passed from animals to humans.
So these articles do not contradict the scientific "consensus". Also we don't need to get to the exact source to understand a lot about the virus, there are numerous viral samples whose RNA can be sequenced as McAdonis pointed out.
If this is a biological weapon it is a very ineffective one with a shockingly low mortality rate.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454602]The point of this: There is a lo of work being done as we speak. To claim that the origin of virus is already settled science, "there is broad scientific consensus it is not man made" is not accurate when researchers are saying work needs to be done to investigate the origins.
"The virus's ability to bind protein on human cells was far greater than its ability to bind the same protein in bats, which argues against bats being a direct source of the human virus."
"While it has been suggested by some Chinese scientists that the COVID-19 virus might have been transmitted to humans from pangolins, currently available data does not support this idea," Professor Petrovsky says.
[URL]https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.01.073262v1[/URL][/QUOTE]As Delta Indigo noted, the papers you linked do not contradict the scientific consensus. The authors appear to make two assertions: (1) that bats are not the "direct source" and (2) the pangolin was not the intermediate host. This aligns with the scientific consensus of bats being the indirect source. When they write "origins", the focus of their investigation is the exact path the virus took from bats to humans and at what point this virus evolved to its current pathogenic state. Scientists are not sure whether this mutation occurred while inside an animal host or a human host.
Also your link comes from a pre-print server. Please go to their home page: [URL]https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/recent[/URL].
There you will find a disclaimer at the top of the page "bioRxiv is receiving many new papers on coronavirus SARS-CoV-2. A reminder: these are preliminary reports that have not been peer-reviewed. They should not be regarded as conclusive, guide clinical practice / health-related behavior, or be reported in news media as established information."
[QUOTE]"Further evidence arises from the analysis of the overall molecular structure of the virus. Here the SARS-CoV-2 backbone differs significantly from previous coronaviruses known to infect humans. Instead, the molecular structure more closely resembles viruses found in bats and pangolins. Had the virus been artificially created, the developers would have used a virus already known to infect humans and modified this in order to increase the infectivity or severity.
According to lead researcher, Dr. Kristian Andersen: By comparing the available genome sequence data for known coronavirus strains, we can firmly determine that SARS-CoV-2 originated through natural processes.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/tech-and-science/science/essential-science-coronavirus-was-not-genetically-engineered/article/569127#ixzz6NvBcSMN9
Research paper: http://dx.doi.org/10.1038/s41591-020-0820-9.[/QUOTE][QUOTE]This evidence for natural evolution was supported by data on SARS-CoV-2s backbone its overall molecular structure. If someone were seeking to engineer a new coronavirus as a pathogen, they would have constructed it from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness. But the scientists found that the SARS-CoV-2 backbone differed substantially from those of already known coronaviruses and mostly resembled related viruses found in bats and pangolins.
These two features of the virus, the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone, rules out genetic engineering as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2 said co-author Kristian Andersen, PhD, an associate professor of immunology and microbiology at Scripps Research.
https://news.tulane.edu/pr/study-coronavirus-pandemic-sparked-nature-not-bioengineering[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Pistons;2454620]Climate change:
There is no denying that humans have had a hand in climate change, but the question is if this was planned or not. Or just a result of water shortages around the world:
[URL]https://www.etcgroup.org/content/chinas-plan-engineer-himalayan-clouds-geoengineering-unintentional-or-otherwise[/URL]
We know that lower clouds cools down the temperature, and that higher up clouds warms the temperature. This is undisputed. So guess what happens when we drain all the water away from the lower cloud layers.[/QUOTE]My intent was not to talk about the climate change. It was more about politicians dismissing science. There is supposedly 97 percent consensus among scientists on global warming. In early March when there were few cases in the USA, Neil DeGrasse Tyson considered the CV-19 response to be a social experiment. During the first 3 minutes of this video, he says "The experiment is will people listen to scientists": [URL]https://youtu.be/jB4FUHHMI24[/URL].
[URL]https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/497533-let-science-lead-we-need-more-leaders-with-science-backgrounds[/URL]
[URL]https://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/why-dont-americans-elect-scientists/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2454758]What about Bugatti quality made in France? When French Peugeot cars have usually the best balance: You take 308 with 150 power, you take V40, A3, A class, 118, Golf, You take also Megane, all with 150 power, cars around 30 000 , you go to test on Nurburgring, winner will be 308 , no other will compete in curves, Megane should be in top 3. Megane RS is the fastest in this category in Nurburgring. Same You take 508, with A4, 318, see class, all with same power, and 508 will be ahead. Best balance, best efficiency for grip, no need for quattro, 4 matic, xdrive. German cars are famous but don t mean they are all high quality or better quality, just difference of culture when German cars are built for free speed autobahns, when You will be faster on french motorways than in Germany full of works with 80 or 60 speed limits. Tesla is just impressive joke for me, if I rent a Tesla in Germany, I m pretty sure I can t drive Dusseldorf Frankfurt free speed. To succeed, I will have to drive as fast as on bicycle. Hybrid with hydrogen seem much more interesting technique for me, when electric is just a lie, first you can drive only Hollywood Boulevard, not longer, and You just move the problem, no more pollution in Hollywood, but you make a lot of pollution to build battery in poor countries and what do you do with old battery? Just a big lie, nobody tell about. I will never buy any electric car killing poor people to make rich breathing better. Same like virus killing more poor than rich. Even electric cars start very fast, but after, they are heavy and you can't really drive, they are made for snails in Switzerland.[/QUOTE]Japanese Honda NSX was really interesting for perfect architecture for balance, formula 1 architecture. Mitsou lancer evo was the only one which could compete with Escort RS Cosworth before Ford killed her very fast, when Ford don t know much about European standards for car quality, even Mustang is legend from Bullit but can t compete in Europe. Nevertheless Ford improved on 2 last decades, when building some dangerous cars before. We don t drive under 60 miles in Europe, when adrenaline is trying to pass full speed, over quattro and super soft tires grip, in new curve built on new autobahn before Neuss, I think Holz. Also great curves around Ulmen Nurburgring and between Kaiserlautern and Trier where I needed more than the 2 lines to control electronic quattro on 15 March, I don t understand how it work on rear wheels, xdrive is much easier to feel grip. I miss these weekly runs, maybe more than brothels. Also great curves around, between Carinthia and Zoncolan. Wish to go to Frioul, when I starting my Summer on this week end for at least 4 months for climbing, when couldn't ski on this Winter, just killing skis on Christmas.
[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2454777]Yes this is a rare evolutionary development and many things are not fully understood about it. But where does it say in any of those articles that it was man made?
Viruses do occasionally evolve in an unpredictable manner, the explanation isn't that complex, the more humans intrude into previously untouched natural realms, the higher the chance of something like this happening.
We are not sure how this happened, eating exotic animals or a study of bats, but this is far from unimaginable.
All the major diseases we have today, tuberculosis and so on, came from the agrarian revolution and were passed from animals to humans.
So these articles do not contradict the scientific "consensus". Also we don't need to get to the exact source to understand a lot about the virus, there are numerous viral samples whose RNA can be sequenced as McAdonis pointed out.
If this is a biological weapon it is a very ineffective one with a shockingly low mortality rate.[/QUOTE]I am glad you and Mr McAdonis are convinced of the existence of the scientific "consensus". Is it an article of faith? The papers I included do not say they are man made, and I did not say they do. They say work needs to be done to establish the origins of the virus. Which means the origin is still inconclusive. You say there is already a consensus Re: how it came about. But active research work is going on to investigate those origins.
It seems to me that the people claiming it is "not man made" have already made up their minds. Hence this rush to claim a scientific consensus, and an urgency to shut down alternate voices by minimizing them as "conspiracy theories with loony political motives". Be that as it may, the normal scientific process including a proper investigation by real scientists that one can trust was blocked. I am amazed that you think a consensus was formed in the absence of an independent investigation. If you truly believe in science and more importantly in scientific process, how is any conclusion and consensus formed when investigators are blocked?
As for bio weapon. The objective need not be the death toll. From the beginning I said it was to narrow the economic gap between China On one side and traditional western societies on the other, and to help perpetuate Xi atop China. That objective has been achieved to some extent.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2454758]What about Bugatti quality made in France? When French Peugeot cars have usually the best balance: You take 308 with 150 power, you take V40, A3, A class, 118, Golf, You take also Megane, all with 150 power, cars around 30 000 , you go to test on Nurburgring, winner will be 308 , no other will compete in curves, Megane should be in top 3. Megane RS is the fastest in this category in Nurburgring. Same You take 508, with A4, 318, see class, all with same power, and 508 will be ahead. Best balance, best efficiency for grip, no need for quattro, 4 matic, xdrive. German cars are famous but don t mean they are all high quality or better quality, just difference of culture when German cars are built for free speed autobahns, when You will be faster on french motorways than in Germany full of works with 80 or 60 speed limits. Tesla is just impressive joke for me, if I rent a Tesla in Germany, I m pretty sure I can t drive Dusseldorf Frankfurt free speed. To succeed, I will have to drive as fast as on bicycle. Hybrid with hydrogen seem much more interesting technique for me, when electric is just a lie, first you can drive only Hollywood Boulevard, not longer, and You just move the problem, no more pollution in Hollywood, but you make a lot of pollution to build battery in poor countries and what do you do with old battery? Just a big lie, nobody tell about. I will never buy any electric car killing poor people to make rich breathing better. Same like virus killing more poor than rich. Even electric cars start very fast, but after, they are heavy and you can't really drive, they are made for snails in Switzerland.[/QUOTE]Bugatti is Volkswagen. So it is a German company now, and has been since 1998. It doesn't matter that they band themselves as french. Same with Seat and Skoda.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2454799]My intent was not to talk about the climate change. It was more about politicians dismissing science. There is supposedly 97 percent consensus among scientists on global warming. In early March when there were few cases in the USA, Neil DeGrasse Tyson considered the CV-19 response to be a social experiment. During the first 3 minutes of this video, he says "The experiment is will people listen to scientists": [URL]https://youtu.be/jB4FUHHMI24[/URL].
[URL]https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/497533-let-science-lead-we-need-more-leaders-with-science-backgrounds[/URL]
[URL]https://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/why-dont-americans-elect-scientists/[/URL][/QUOTE]But if you read my post again, I don't say there is no human made global warming. I just say cloud seeding is the reason for it. Not co2.
I have read too many papers on this to count, and all the co2 gang does is to pull up parallel charts. The same way Erasmus Montanus compares his mom to a stone. Since they both cannot fly. They must be the same!
But the only thing that has been tested with proof and shows warming effects are clouds!
The main reason for the CO2 being demonized are peak oil. Since we are about to run out of the cheap to extract resource. Thus we have to tax it in order to diversify our energy mix. It is a long term safety strategy. Just like the CCP safety tactics in order to hide the corona virus.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2454827]Bugatti is Volkswagen. So it is a German company now, and has been since 1998. It doesn't matter that they band themselves as french. Same with Seat and Skoda.[/QUOTE]Bugatti are built in France, Germans don't have this level of skill at home, despite Porsche and Maybach, but all made with men hands, no robots. I prefer Audi now because most solid engines to prepare and best quality and I can put skis and bicycle, I can t in little frog 911 , but for cars until A3, A class, BM1 , Golf, category, french cars can compete with better balance and grip. BMW losing soul and history, coming to front wheel driving for BM1, for more safety. You go to Germany when snowing, even with winter tires, BMW and Mercedes are stopped on autobahn when You can drive 100 with super soft tires if You think a bit Finnish and are ready to slide a bit. This is German cars, look at clio, megane, 208,308, 508,3008, going on snow, even without winter tires, we don t have to put winter tires in France, I go to Val Thorens 2300 meters high with super soft tires made to perform on Nurburgring.
Cross-posting from Berlin thread. French language article, so someone should verify translation but I believe WG in France infected 13 men, who then went on to infect their families. Wonder if this might influence decisions to reopen:
[URL]https://m.lematin.ch/articles/31932243[/URL]
They are stopped on autobahn, thus they must be worse at drifting while running at 100? OK.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2454799]My intent was not to talk about the climate change. It was more about politicians dismissing science. There is supposedly 97 percent consensus among scientists on global warming. In early March when there were few cases in the USA, Neil DeGrasse Tyson considered the CV-19 response to be a social experiment. During the first 3 minutes of this video, he says "The experiment is will people listen to scientists": [URL]https://youtu.be/jB4FUHHMI24[/URL].
[URL]https://thehill.com/opinion/healthcare/497533-let-science-lead-we-need-more-leaders-with-science-backgrounds[/URL]
[URL]https://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/02/13/why-dont-americans-elect-scientists/[/URL][/QUOTE]Covid is a killer, but climate crisis will kill much more, with more and more storms, Bangladesh will become new Atlantis, real white bears, not old fat in brothels, will kill more and more when they won t have anymore and soon home on ice disappearing. When US and China don't care about pollution, 2 big murderers, I cry every winter when I see my beloved mountains, Alpe Huez glacier 3200 meters high is dying, Grande Motte Tignes glacier 3500 meters received 15 meters snow falling on Winter 20 years ago, now they are happy when they have 5 meters on whole Winter, I remember when I was a child at ski, having 50 cm snow falling in the night, now when we have 15 cm fresh snow, this is Christmas, lets go free riding, taking risks with rocks just hidden by 10 cm, kicking in. Sad planet humans are killing. Nevertheless, even too late for ski, but was so happy man today starting my Summer tour for 4 months ln this Summer. Since November, after 3 first kilometers to train heart and put it in rhythm, I was impressed by level in legendary la Madeleine. I want to make my Summer great enjoyable, when I had no Winter because of fucking killer virus, but they also send us and to our children, consequences from their heavy pollution. Our children are more and more fat and diabetic from US foods and with asthma from pollution. Not so healthy to fight and fuck virus.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2454797]As Delta Indigo noted, the papers you linked do not contradict the [b] scientific consensus. [/b]
Also your link comes from a pre-print server..[/QUOTE]Your assumption is that there is a pre-existing scientific consensus and the burden is on the people to disprove it otherwise the consensus stands.
Are there are any studies which are not pre-print but peer reviewed and accepted by majority / most of virologists and epidemiologists that traces the exact path of the virus from whatever is the original source to humans, and importantly do such studies conclusively prove that no Wuhan lab was ever involved?
If so, please do provide such links.
It would also be useful to know what is your definition of consensus, and who are part of this consensus that you have referenced many times. Please also state what is the exact wording of this consensus when was this consensus formed. Thank you, much appreciated.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2454898]Cross-posting from Berlin thread. French language article, so someone should verify translation but I believe WG in France infected 13 men, who then went on to infect their families. Wonder if this might influence decisions to reopen:
[URL]https://m.lematin.ch/articles/31932243[/URL][/QUOTE]This was written on 23 March, took place not far from Leman lake and Geneva, 2 Colombian prostitutes, the one 36 yo infected had clients who can be and bring back at home, same like what could happen in brothels, one infected with no symptom, no fever, infect a healthy girl also with no symptom so she doesn't know, a superstar who makes 10 clients in her day, but most not so healthy, some return to wife at home who has diabetes or breast cancer, some go to another club on next day or next week, and then try to calculate running R0. I don t know when brothels will reopen but I m sure really impossible to prevent virus from coming to brothels, even with Europe closed borders, even with quarantine for UK as they do, but even virus is now very slow in Western Europe, but still killing few, despite Summer heat, protection used now in Europe, and what will happen on Autumn when will be 10 degrees? I think nobody know, but better to be aware brothels are risky playfield and not only for this virus, reason why hygiene is so important for me and why I tell when girls don t even have to take shower, when a previous client came on her body, or after going to toilets and You need to wait to make come wet not to taste bitter.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2454906]They are stopped on autobahn, thus they must be worse at drifting while running at 100? OK.[/QUOTE]Now most of German cars are more than 1500 kg, many more than 1700/1800 kgs, full of electronics. Why are they stopped driving 20 km / h their Mercedes or BMW on snow on autobahn? Just because they are scared by their car balance, when french cars are so easy and safe for grip even on snow, even without Winter tires. A clio would make ridiculous any Mercedes or BM or even Porsche on snow. With so heavy and full of electronic, just try to dream about drift. Because I found xdrive improved BMW balance with still around 60% power on rear wheels, but what a mistake I made taking quattro as I tell Audi. Maybe worth for trucks Q7, Q5, but really not sporty and I don t understand how it work on rear wheels when maybe 75% on front wheels, but really bad feeling about rear wheels, if I could and I asked Audi France how to put off, impossible unfortunately and they tell me: what You do with your car? Same like when I tell them I have to correct quattro reactions but real exhausting sport, braking with left foot and always right on accelerator, same position than in karting, to try to correct without losing time to move feet. More efficient when You want to be fast, just race technique like kicking in brakes to shorten distance. If You want to drift, easier to put off electronic and no 4 wheels drive, rare like pandas in Germany, maybe trabant.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2454898]Cross-posting from Berlin thread. French language article, so someone should verify translation but I believe WG in France infected 13 men, who then went on to infect their families. Wonder if this might influence decisions to reopen:
[URL]https://m.lematin.ch/articles/31932243[/URL][/QUOTE]For this reason, I do not understand how there can be mongers who count the days, such as prisoners who cross out the days on the wall they need to leave, to find the door opened of FKK if there is a high percentage of infecting you and then infecting your relatives with covid. If you are over 60 years old, think that it may be the last time you are with a girl who will jerk you off with gloves. What a pathetic ending for a monger! Think in another hobby until at least next year.
To be precise, the girl has all the symptoms of covid 19 and had 13 customers, but the paper doesn't say if they were infected.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454924]Your assumption is that there is a pre-existing scientific consensus and the burden is on the people to disprove it otherwise the consensus stands.
Are there are any studies which are not pre-print but peer reviewed and accepted by majority / most of virologists and epidemiologists that traces the exact path of the virus from whatever is the original source to humans, and importantly do such studies conclusively prove that no Wuhan lab was ever involved?
[/QUOTE]You are correct in that we should not be using the term "scientific consensus" loosely. This could takes decades to establish. Nevertheless, this was the verbiage used in the Director of National Intelligence statement issued on April 30 which stated the virus "was not manmade or genetically modified".
Scientists' primary reasons for casting doubt on the "man-made" conspiracy theory are as follows: (1) manipulation leaves evidence that other virologists can detect. (2) virologists are not clever enough to construct a coronavirus that is harmful to humans unless they use one of the six other coronaviruses known to be harmful to humans as a template. SARS-CoV-2 only has an 80 percent resemblance to SARS-CoV-1 that triggered the outbreak in 2003.
As stated before scientists do not know the origins (zoonotic path it took to infect humans). But a peer-reviewed paper, which I will repost the link to states "Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus". This paper has been cited 114 times. [URL]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9[/URL].
Preprint allows authors to get feedback. Some Indian researchers posted a paper to bioRxiv, suggesting similarities between SARS-CoV-2 and HIV. "A stream of comments on Twitter and bioRxiv soon followed, questioning the methodology and conclusions, and the paper was withdrawn": [URL]https://www.timeshighereducation.com/opinion/covid-19-outbreak-highlights-potential-preprints[/URL]#survey-answer.
Both CCP and POTUS seem to want to make "factual claims" without evidence. Politicians are conmen. My point is the scientific evidence has absolved CCP from genetically manipulation. But that doesn't mean that CCP is completely innocent. Perhaps the Wuhan scientists were studying a naturally-occurring virus that they knew to be harmful to humans and did not disclose this to the world. Perhaps the outbreak was accidental. And perhaps they "deliberately" waited two extra days before locking down Wuhan, in hopes that the virus would spread enough to inflict damage to other nations. That still neatly fits into the POTUS' narrative of CCP weaponising the virus.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454924]Your assumption is that there is a pre-existing scientific consensus and the burden is on the people to disprove it otherwise the consensus stands.
Are there are any studies which are not pre-print but peer reviewed and accepted by majority / most of virologists and epidemiologists that traces the exact path of the virus from whatever is the original source to humans, and importantly do such studies conclusively prove that no Wuhan lab was ever involved?
If so, please do provide such links.
It would also be useful to know what is your definition of consensus, and who are part of this consensus that you have referenced many times. Please also state what is the exact wording of this consensus when was this consensus formed. Thank you, much appreciated.[/QUOTE]This is part of what I like to call communication strategy. You will never find what you are asking for, because it does not exist. The same can be said for many types of scientific consensuses. Peer reviews when found, are always riddled with holes. When I wrote my master thesis, I was even told by my professor to cut down on the criticism, because it was twice the size of the rest of my paper. And I wrote the same length of criticism for another thesis I read. There is a consensus I was told that it is not normal to write all possible criticism down. Since then there would be nothing left.
And this thing about 'scientific consensus' is a framing word to imply above and below rethorics (can't recall the English term), so that no one who is lacking a professor degree will dare to object. Usually these types of strategies are paid for through a communication bureau.
The way you can that this is how it works, is when you read articles about the various topics, and everything is rethorics. While there is zero scientific hard evidence involved in the article itself. In other words, paid propaganda.
And when do people pay for propaganda. Well according to two renowned owners of big pr bureaus I know: 'only when there is something to hide. If there is nothing to hide, they just assume there is no reason to pay for the PR'.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2454988]same like what could happen in brothels, one infected with no symptom, no fever, infect a healthy girl also with no symptom so she doesn't know, a superstar who makes 10 clients in her day, but most not so healthy, some return to wife at home who has diabetes or breast cancer, some go to another club on next day or next week, and then try to calculate running R0. .[/QUOTE]In that case, and knowing a vaccine will take a year at least, we have 2 options, close for everyone OR close for riskier people and open for less risky, there are very high evidence that most healthy people under 65 years old will have very mild sympetmes or no symptoms at all, so I think Sweden got it right, and I think FKK should allow people under 65 to enter the club until there is a vaccine.
I know this will not happen, but I think dealing with the virus with one strategy for ALL ages is non sense.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2455040]You are correct in that we should not be using the term "scientific consensus" loosely. This could takes decades to establish. Nevertheless, this was the verbiage used in the Director of National Intelligence statement issued on April 30 which stated the virus "was not manmade or genetically modified".
Scientists' primary reasons for casting doubt on the "man-made" conspiracy theory are as follows: (1) manipulation leaves evidence that other virologists can detect. (2) virologists are not clever enough to construct a coronavirus that is harmful to humans unless they use one of the six other coronaviruses known to be harmful to humans as a template. SARS-CoV-2 only has an 80 percent resemblance to SARS-CoV-1 that triggered the outbreak in 2003.
As stated before scientists do not know the origins (zoonotic path it took to infect humans). But a peer-reviewed paper, which I will repost the link to states "Our analyses clearly show that SARS-CoV-2 is not a laboratory construct or a purposefully manipulated virus". This paper has been cited 114 times. [URL]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41591-020-0820-9[/URL]..[/QUOTE]First of all, thank you for the kind reply. Very helpful.
"we should not be using the term "scientific consensus" loosely" : glad you feel that way. I quite agree with you.
"verbiage used in the Director of National Intelligence" : Question: Is Director of National Intelligence the gold standard in your view? Are they supposed to be the most objective, scientifically oriented organization, the standard setting body so to speak? Obviously, if they are, then we should follow their lead. I was not aware that they are considered to be such gold standard.
"Scientists' primary reasons for casting doubt. " : I am curious if this is *all* the scientists, some scientists, most of the scientists. Any quantification would be helpful. For example, 99.9% of the scientists, or some such percent. Would that be virologists, epidemiologists, bio statisticians, all of them? US / China / EU / India / Japan /. ? I hope this reference to scientists is not a euphemism for the "consensus" which I think you now believe to be "loosely used".
"scientists do not know the origins" - I have the same question as above, I. E. Who are the scientists in this reference. I personally believe there are investigations going on at the moment and it is too early to say anything conclusive. I keep scratching my head why some scientists are still doing investigations if this is such a settled question -- for example, no one is investigating that earth goes around the sun. That to a lay person like me would be settled science.
"The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2" - thank you for the link. The date of this paper is March 17,2020. Is this the most authoritative paper in your view? Yes, it has 114 citations but it is tough to place in context, given that it is a Nature paper, it was from mid March and research intensity related to Corona has increased since west is now being impacted much more. Any future work after mid March would naturally cite a paper from Nature, given that this is a new topic which is of interest to many scientists working to solve this problem all over the world.
The paper says the following "It is improbable that SARS-CoV-2 emerged through laboratory manipulation of a related SARS-CoV-like coronavirus" - they do not say what this probability is supposed to be. The further say "since we observed all notable SARS-CoV-2 features, including the optimized RBD and polybasic cleavage site, in related coronaviruses in nature, we do not believe that any type of laboratory-based scenario is plausible" - again, they are not able to definitively say a lab is not involved. Finally, they conclude with "More scientific data could swing the balance of evidence to favor one hypothesis over another". Their entire theme is that based on the evidence and data they currently have access to, they have made some probabilistic estimates, but just that -- probabilistic and estimate, about a novel virus.
"My point is the scientific evidence has absolved CCP from genetically manipulation" -- it has? I would love to see any link to this particular claim. Would that be the aforementioned consensus? Or is it the probabilistic estimate in the one Nature paper, whose authors do not have access to the source info and which they make a clear note of ("Obtaining related viral sequences from animal sources would be the most definitive way of revealing viral origins".
Absolved is a very definitive claim. "Scientific evidence has absolved" is an even bigger claim. It would be lovely to see your links to the resources in which such a claim can be verified. For lay men like me who are not at the obvious high level of scientific learning as others, it would be even better if this absolution is presented in black and white.
Thank you again for your very helpful answer.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2454988]This was written on 23 March, took place not far from Leman lake and Geneva, 2 Colombian prostitutes, the one 36 yo infected had clients who can be and bring back at home, same like what could happen in brothels, one infected with no symptom, no fever, infect a healthy girl also with no symptom so she doesn't know, a superstar who makes 10 clients in her day, but most not so healthy, some return to wife at home who has diabetes or breast cancer, some go to another club on next day or next week, and then try to calculate running R0. I don t know when brothels will reopen but I m sure really impossible to prevent virus from coming to brothels, even with Europe closed borders, even with quarantine for UK as they do, but even virus is now very slow in Western Europe, but still killing few, despite Summer heat, protection used now in Europe, and what will happen on Autumn when will be 10 degrees? I think nobody know, but better to be aware brothels are risky playfield and not only for this virus, reason why hygiene is so important for me and why I tell when girls don t even have to take shower, when a previous client came on her body, or after going to toilets and You need to wait to make come wet not to taste bitter.[/QUOTE]I think she should be prosecuted, not for prostitution which is legal in France, but because she kept on working when infected. France should cure her and next plane to Bogota. Remind me a crazy guy, I think to remember UK, who wanted to infect others with HIV he got, or US images a french journalist took about people threatening coughing in face other people.
[QUOTE=Tuber19;2455096]In that case, and knowing a vaccine will take a year at least, we have 2 options, close for everyone OR close for riskier people and open for less risky, there are very high evidence that most healthy people under 65 years old will have very mild sympetmes or no symptoms at all, so I think Sweden got it right, and I think FKK should allow people under 65 to enter the club until there is a vaccine.
I know this will not happen, but I think dealing with the virus with one strategy for ALL ages is non sense.[/QUOTE]Sweden have the worst capital under virus, competing with down under NYC, but I agree when in France more than 90% of our too many deaths are more than 65 yo, but obese, diabetic, with cancer treatment, lungs and heart problems are also in danger and also for relatives around you, but some guys go for AO and return to wife after. Each one play own risk, but I think Germany is thinking about R0 when they have so many brothels and prostitutes from many origins. New law didn't work efficient except for registration.
As if the news wasn't bad enough already, a band of "highly intelligent" rhesus monkeys has attacked a medical center in Delhi and escaped with a batch of coronavirus blood test samples. It is not clear yet whether their scientists will be able to create an even deadlier strain, but they are a species known to have many grievances and I wouldn't rule out urban rioting or further acts of bioterrorism in the future.
[URL]https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-monkeys-escape-with-covid-19-samples-after-attacking-lab-assistant-11996752[/URL]
(Like most primates, rhesus monkeys are polyamorous. If they were to take over, there would be a lot less hang-ups in society. In any conflict I would find my loyalties divided. But it is in the nature of polyamory to divide loyalties anyway.)
[QUOTE=TeaInTheSun;2455014]For this reason, I do not understand how there can be mongers who count the days, such as prisoners who cross out the days on the wall they need to leave, to find the door opened of FKK if there is a high percentage of infecting you and then infecting your relatives with covid. If you are over 60 years old, think that it may be the last time you are with a girl who will jerk you off with gloves. What a pathetic ending for a monger! Think in another hobby until at least next year.[/QUOTE]Funny when I read US telling they are in sex prison in a so huge country 15 times larger than my small beloved France, I think only Texas may be larger than France. In Miami had no problem but it was on 1997 and 1999, maybe change now, to find a pretty Puerto Rican but blond with long hair and big shinning smile, prettier than Americans I saw, she was not escorting but kind of part timer when she needed money. In Vegas, found kind of club in downtown, when I didn't follow on strip when I was proposed but couldn't see the girl, only a paper with number, but I enjoyed to walk the whole strip from Circus and back, before going to downtown, it was 2007 . Also found a small club in San Francisco close to a very climby short street, not California nor the one with many curves I woke up at 4.30 am to go to climb because direction is only downhill. Great police stopping all cars in crossings when I was climbing California, but worst was to go down, blocking brakes, impossible to stop, so police stopping again cars. I paid 200 USD and we stayed nearly 1 hour with this cute small brunette, really sweet nearly passionate, I remember she was surprised by foreplay for sure she never experienced and then she let go, but find more impressive Romanian looks in brothels for 100/60. But in 2008, could still find and also Canada where women are prettier than Americans is closer than Europe, found kind of escort in Quebec, quite pretty on 2012 but so talkative, she spoke french, speaking during foreplay and sex and I didn't understand what she said, so had to concentrate to try to understand, making her repeating, it was not so sensual but funny sex. Also Mexico but I m not really into Latina types, but I'm sure not so difficult to find plenty of poor girls needing money. Same like Romanians from Western Europeans.
Anyway, when Switzerland is first after our bois de Boulogne to reopen risky playfield on 6 June like one of the most beautiful club I know, Freubad where I had a exceptional discovery of the club and 2 extreme GFE rooms with Anna. Ro on her second day, not speaking German nor English, but we really didn t need and her friend and desk understood, on last 1 August, as I told to desk: You are better than Globe, now they welcome me and propose me flexible package how I like, when my discovery cost 269 CHF, around 250 € with 2 rooms with a rare girl, really just fallen from the truck driven by her friend who seemed surprised I chose the newbie who couldn't speak, but a virgin fresh beauty versus a prostitute, even she was lovely. Nevertheless, better to be aware about risks and for relatives like wife, old mother. Quite impossible no virus in brothels, even when only Swiss until 15 June. So they delayed Globe opening to 19, because not enough girls and Swiss are not enough for business. But no need to rush, first I won t pay for mask sex, and I was so happy for my 2 first climbing days in my beloved mountains. When I arrived on Friday, I felt in my home land, I was so frustrated not to ski, I needed to go to walk with bicycle shoes in snow, I just felt good, when I remember some girls telling: this is not a place for you, at LR, GT, World, Sharks and Globe, not only once, one at LR proposed me to make appointment when and how long I wanted and then I could not stay in club, I know she tried her best to propose me, but as I told to Kate: appointment mean prostitution, where is desire? But wonderful France is for sure a place for me when my mother made me as a beauty lover, and I love so much our so beautiful mountains, when some may prefer our 3 big seas and little one Leman. Even I was quite impressed by performance after virus and 6 months without intensive sport, only killing skis on rocks for Christmas and giving up after 2 days, no interest to ski like this, but most important was to feel real freedom, no mask in mountains, and also great feeling on bicycle even more important than interesting climbing times. When I m sure I gave much more than 100 000 € in 7 years to Romania, if I go one day, I expect they will close Transfagarasan for me, to make a run as I told this is my only reason to go, to Megan, to compare with exceptionnal Prato Stelvio, when no need to go to Brasov to ski. What runs in la Madeleine or Cormet Roseland, motorbikes didn't insist, when over 160 in some lines, need left foot on brake to kick in, but less impressive than going downhill 70 km / h with very narrow tires bicycle, even more impressive than running 100 km / h on skis and so much more impressive than 250 on autobahns, so great fun in mountains and improving health and mood. So after working and paying tax under virus, I decided I will try to go on holidays every week end until end of my season in Mont Ventoux on end of September, in my wonderful country, of course I won't go to Negresco, I prefer to work and listen to my music: Californian Toto, legendary Led Zepellin, Neil Young, black heroe Jimi Hendrix, real musicians, US were the best for this, even falling down to Eminen now. Of course I want to go to Dolomiti for Giro legends, have to tell about 28% Gentille Bora leader in mountain Formolo, he will tell me: You are really crazy, this is just so hard intense to kill body, but I want to climb, just to push limits, to make sure, when over 50, but still have power for, when probably no professionnal will never do because may be too dangerous for their body when they didn't want to climb Zoncolan for years, so of course easy with girls after and really no need for viagra to be firm belly, ass and more. Sport give health and performance in bed. Many pleasures, just have to be able to make them in our life, and I want my great enjoyable 4 months Summer when I didn't have my Winter pleasure. I will work for this, before ski for Christmas wishing for snow.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2455121]"The proximal origin of SARS-CoV-2" - thank you for the link. The date of this paper is March 17,2020. Is this the most authoritative paper in your view? Yes, it has 114 citations but it is tough to place in context, given that it is a Nature paper, it was from mid March and research intensity related to Corona has increased since west is now being impacted much more. Any future work after mid March would naturally cite a paper from Nature, given that this is a new topic which is of interest to many scientists working to solve this problem all over the world.[/QUOTE]Definition of science from Cambridge dictionary: "the systematic study of the structure and behavior of the [B]natural[/B] and physical world". This is a list of some of the most influential scientific journals (spoiler: Nature is in that list). [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientific_journals[/URL].
"The IC is headed by the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), whose statutory leadership is exercised through the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI)". The IC has 17 members (including CIA and NSA). Fauci has been director of National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984. Both qualify as experts in their related fields and both do not believe SARS-CoV-2 is manmade: [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Intelligence_Community[/URL].
Science never speaks in absolutes. It is always about ever-increasing probabilities. To a scientist, there is never 100 percent certainty, hence it is not possible to prove anything, but only accept or reject ideas based on existing evidence. That means you can continue to gather evidence until infinity, and a scientist would still qualify their statement with "Based on existing evidence. " So while, no scientist will ever claim that the theory of evolution is 100 percent accurate, the debates have for all intents and purposes stopped within the scientific community. Instead the focus of scientists have shifted and the fierce debates now exist elsewhere. For instance, the theory that life evolved from single-cell organisms to humans is widely accepted. But there are fierce debates over the origins of the the first animal sponge. In other words, the path from single celled organisms to the sponge. Similarly, the theory that the virus was genetically modified is no longer the subject of investigation, but rather the zoonotic path of the virus. Determining the zoonotic path requires scientists to "obtain viral sequences from animal sources". The "Nature" paper has been around over 60 days. The authors of scientific papers want their work to be scrutinized. If there are scientists that question their methodologies and conclusions, I am not aware of them. [URL]https://www.quantamagazine.org/scientists-debate-the-origin-of-cell-types-in-the-first-animals-20190717/[/URL].
Finally, I prefer to defer to the experts once more. This time to another field, the "pseudoscience" of psychology. Here is the definition for the backfire effect: "When someone tries to correct you, tries to dilute your misconceptions, it backfires and strengthens them instead. " So if anyone is still reading, I think they realize that we are both entrenched. No side will be convinced here, so it is pointless to continue. The only thing "proven" thus far is that we both have too much time on our hands. I do not have any hard feelings over anything written. Look forward to your input on other topics in future, but five or six back-and-forths on a single topic is enough for me.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2455164]As if the news wasn't bad enough already, a band of "highly intelligent" rhesus monkeys has attacked a medical center in Delhi and escaped with a batch of coronavirus blood test samples. It is not clear yet whether their scientists will be able to create an even deadlier strain, but they are a species known to have many grievances and I wouldn't rule out urban rioting or further acts of bioterrorism in the future.
[URL]https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-monkeys-escape-with-covid-19-samples-after-attacking-lab-assistant-11996752[/URL]
(Like most primates, rhesus monkeys are polyamorous. If they were to take over, there would be a lot less hang-ups in society. In any conflict I would find my loyalties divided. But it is in the nature of polyamory to divide loyalties anyway.)[/QUOTE]Do you think this is fake news just to play a pun on the US or HK rioting? I wouldn't bet against it given the timing. LOL. Dibs for originality though. At first I thought it was a TheOnion article before checking.
[QUOTE=Tuber19;2455096]............ and I think FKK should allow people under 65 to enter the club until there is a vaccine............[/QUOTE]Hahaha, do you think that there are establishments, especially sex clubs, that would willingly reduce their profits by 50%.
[QUOTE]https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-monkeys-escape-with-covid-19-samples-after-attacking-lab-assistant-11996752[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Pistons;2455367]Do you think this is fake news just to play a pun on the US or HK rioting? I wouldn't bet against it given the timing. LOL. Dibs for originality though. At first I thought it was a TheOnion article before checking.[/QUOTE]Well when I first read it, I wasn't sure if they were plagiarizing '28 Days Later' or 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes'. But monkeys are a serious part of Indian life. They are considered sacred, like cows. When lockdown happened, monkeys took over the deserted streets.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2455229]Funny when I read US telling they are in sex prison in a so huge country 15 times larger than my small beloved France, I think only Texas may be larger than France. In Miami had no problem but it was on 1997 and 1999, maybe change now, to find a pretty Puerto Rican but blond with long hair and big shinning smile, prettier than Americans I saw, she was not escorting but kind of part timer when she needed money. In Vegas, found kind of club in downtown, when I didn't follow on strip when I was proposed but couldn't see the girl, only a paper with number, but I enjoyed to walk the whole strip from Circus and back, before going to downtown, it was 2007 . Also found a small club in San Francisco close to a very climby short street, not California nor the one with many curves I woke up at 4.30 am to go to climb because direction is only downhill. Great police stopping all cars in crossings when I was climbing California, but worst was to go down, blocking brakes, impossible to stop, so police stopping again cars. I paid 200 USD and we stayed nearly 1 hour with this cute small brunette, really sweet nearly passionate, I remember she was surprised by foreplay for sure she never experienced and then she let go, but find more impressive Romanian looks in brothels for 100/60. But in 2008, could still find and also Canada where women are prettier than Americans is closer than Europe, found kind of escort in Quebec, quite pretty on 2012 but so talkative, she spoke french, speaking during foreplay and sex and I didn't understand what she said, so had to concentrate to try to understand, making her repeating, it was not so sensual but funny sex. Also Mexico but I m not really into Latina types, but I'm sure not so difficult to find plenty of poor girls needing money. Same like Romanians from Western Europeans.
Anyway, when Switzerland is first after our bois de Boulogne to reopen risky playfield on 6 June like one of the most beautiful club I know, Freubad where I had a exceptional discovery of the club and 2 extreme GFE rooms with Anna. Ro on her second day, not speaking German nor English, but we really didn t need and her friend and desk understood, on last 1 August, as I told to desk: You are better than Globe, now they welcome me and propose me flexible package how I like, when my discovery cost 269 CHF, around 250 with 2 rooms with a rare girl, really just fallen from the truck driven by her friend who seemed surprised I chose the newbie who couldn't speak, but a virgin fresh beauty versus a prostitute, even she was lovely. Nevertheless, better to be aware about risks and for relatives like wife, old mother. Quite impossible no virus in brothels, even when only Swiss until 15 June. So they delayed Globe opening to 19, because not enough girls and Swiss are not enough for business. But no need to rush, first I won t pay for mask sex, and I was so happy for my 2 first climbing days in my beloved mountains. When I arrived on Friday, I felt in my home land, I was so frustrated not to ski, I needed to go to walk with bicycle shoes in snow, I just felt good, when I remember some girls telling: this is not a place for you, at LR, GT, World, Sharks and Globe, not only once, one at LR proposed me to make appointment when and how long I wanted and then I could not stay in club, I know she tried her best to propose me, but as I told to Kate: appointment mean prostitution, where is desire? But wonderful France is for sure a place for me when my mother made me as a beauty lover, and I love so much our so beautiful mountains, when some may prefer our 3 big seas and little one Leman. Even I was quite impressed by performance after virus and 6 months without intensive sport, only killing skis on rocks for Christmas and giving up after 2 days, no interest to ski like this, but most important was to feel real freedom, no mask in mountains, and also great feeling on bicycle even more important than interesting climbing times. When I m sure I gave much more than 100 000 in 7 years to Romania, if I go one day, I expect they will close Transfagarasan for me, to make a run as I told this is my only reason to go, to Megan, to compare with exceptionnal Prato Stelvio, when no need to go to Brasov to ski. What runs in la Madeleine or Cormet Roseland, motorbikes didn't insist, when over 160 in some lines, need left foot on brake to kick in, but less impressive than going downhill 70 km / h with very narrow tires bicycle, even more impressive than running 100 km / h on skis and so much more impressive than 250 on autobahns, so great fun in mountains and improving health and mood. So after working and paying tax under virus, I decided I will try to go on holidays every week end until end of my season in Mont Ventoux on end of September, in my wonderful country, of course I won't go to Negresco, I prefer to work and listen to my music: Californian Toto, legendary Led Zepellin, Neil Young, black heroe Jimi Hendrix, real musicians, US were the best for this, even falling down to Eminen now. Of course I want to go to Dolomiti for Giro legends, have to tell about 28% Gentille Bora leader in mountain Formolo, he will tell me: You are really crazy, this is just so hard intense to kill body, but I want to climb, just to push limits, to make sure, when over 50, but still have power for, when probably no professionnal will never do because may be too dangerous for their body when they didn't want to climb Zoncolan for years, so of course easy with girls after and really no need for viagra to be firm belly, ass and more. Sport give health and performance in bed. Many pleasures, just have to be able to make them in our life, and I want my great enjoyable 4 months Summer when I didn't have my Winter pleasure. I will work for this, before ski for Christmas wishing for snow.[/QUOTE]Hey Siri, you are quite a character! In my case, all my marathons were cancelled for this year. I will try biking, even liking the competition more.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2455238](erudite definition of science deleted)
"The IC is headed by the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), whose statutory leadership is exercised through the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI)". The IC has 17 members (including CIA and NSA). Fauci has been
(Dr Fauci's title and his pedigree were kindly provided although easily available on the internet; deleted here for the purpose of brevity)
(more pedantic and erudite definitions on science deleted; the kindness is very much appreciated however)
Finally, I prefer to defer to the experts once more....
I think they realize that we are both entrenched. .[/QUOTE]Dr. Fauci is a part of US president's covid task force. It also has Dr. Birx, Seema Verma, Surgeon General Adams, health secretary Azar. CDC head Dr Redfield also advises POTUS. I realize some people may not have much regard for this country or our experts and task force and would much rather listen to WHO and their Chinese bosses, but this covid task force are the highest council in the land on this matter, and the POTUS speaks on their behalf and on behalf of US government. Foreigners may not not understand this, but that is how it has worked in the US.
Deferring to the experts is a good idea, but apparently some people pick and choose the experts that agree with their preconceived views. One example would be using one Nature paper and ignoring other teams around the world which are working on further investigations, or even further, picking the parts of the Nature paper itself that is confirmatory of one's views.
I am glad you can enunciate my view as entrenched. As far as I know, the investigation is not complete. I know for a fact that the investigation was blocked by a totalitarian regime depriving of critical data; I also understand several other investigations are still going on. As such, I don't have any view on the origins of the virus, and as you say "I listen to the experts" and wait for their verdict. I however can understand some other erudite acolytes of science have made up their mind based on the portions of papers they referenced in some journals. I just do not have such talent for jumping so quickly to assess scientific consensus, I feel like it is just loose talk.
Thank you, it was a most interesting discussion. Have a good day and happy mongering.
[QUOTE=Tuber19;2455096]In that case, and knowing a vaccine will take a year at least, we have 2 options, close for everyone OR close for riskier people and open for less risky, there are very high evidence that most healthy people under 65 years old will have very mild sympetmes or no symptoms at all, so I think Sweden got it right, and I think FKK should allow people under 65 to enter the club until there is a vaccine.
I know this will not happen, but I think dealing with the virus with one strategy for ALL ages is non sense.[/QUOTE]My view on such matters, which is identical to the stance I took when I had a disagreement with Gino back in Jan and Feb (he was advocating that clubs should deny admission to all people with an Asian look), is that entry guidelines to public places and events should be provided and drafted by the government. If 65 year olds need to be protected, quarantined or denied entry and kept at home, such matters are up to regulators and government. I think it is a slippery slope for FKKs and restaurants and other commercial establishments to start making up their own rule books, each different from the other.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2455367]Do you think this is fake news just to play a pun on the US or HK rioting? I wouldn't bet against it given the timing. LOL. Dibs for originality though. At first I thought it was a TheOnion article before checking.[/QUOTE]Over killer virus, crazy chloroquine Trump has now to hide underground in White House, rather than going to speak to many millions black people in his country.
[QUOTE=TeaInTheSun;2455473]Hey Siri, you are quite a character! In my case, all my marathons were cancelled for this year. I will try biking, even liking the competition more.[/QUOTE]I don't see many bodies, not about girls, to run marathon standard, 2 h45, far behind Ethiopians and Kenyans, in brothels. I was so frustrated for no ski, a real miss for me, like missing drug, when not missing so much brothels, I think I m a bit bored of prostitute behavior, lies, gossiping, I wish I could be blind except for beauty and deaf in brothels, but I was so happy and my eyes smiled so much on last week end, seeing beautiful mountains, even too late for ski, but starting very early my climbing, so on this Summer, I will have 4 months in wonderful France and I wish for splendid Dolomiti, with money made from my job. Just normal and I m quite good to build my pleasures.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2455574]. If 65 year olds need to be protected, quarantined or denied entry and kept at home, such matters are up to regulators and government. I think it is a slippery slope for FKKs and restaurants and other commercial establishments to start making up their own rule books, each different from the other.[/QUOTE]I agree, and that's what I meant, I know its not for FKK to make that decision, and even if its up to them, they will allow everyone because they care about money in the first place.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454597]In this bipolar world, we increasingly need a stronger Europe. I find the work life balance they have achieved more attractive than what I find in the US with its never ending treadmill. But if anything, Europe has continuously lost ground since 2009 and the gap between US to Europe or China to Europe has gone against Europe in 12 years. If I could make my pay check in the US and spend it in Europe, that would be a most attractive life, that's what I want. I bet a lot of American men would take such a deal.[/QUOTE]Just have a business that sells to the American market, and emigrate to Europe. Then maybe you would be less pessimistic.
Over 65s to be forced to stay at home?. When this was discussed in the media it was followed by suggestions that they should not be treated in hospital as they were contributing nothing to society. Next step is to issue euthanasia kits, or maybe issue them with some identifying mark to wear on their clothing in public.
Always convenient to find a group to value less than the majority.
From FT: use the link for the whole article.
[URL]https://www.ft.com/content/dae6d006-9adc-46d5-9b4e-79a7841022e8[/URL]
The architect of Sweden's controversial lighter lockdown policy for dealing with coronavirus has for the first time conceded the Scandinavian country should have imposed more restrictions to avoid having such a high death toll.
Anders Tegnell, Sweden's state epidemiologist, agreed with the interviewer on Sveriges Radio that too many people had died in the country.
"If we would encounter the same disease, with exactly what we know about it today, I think we would land midway between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world did," said Mr Tegnell in the interview broadcast on Wednesday morning.
Mr Tegnell's admission is striking as for months he has criticized other countries' lockdowns and insisted that Sweden's approach was more sustainable despite heavy international scrutiny of its stubbornly high death toll.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2455748]Just have a business that sells to the American market, and emigrate to Europe. Then maybe you would be less pessimistic.[/QUOTE]Yes, that is indeed a great idea for whom it works. If I could make it work for me personally, I should be on it pronto!
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2455597]Over killer virus, crazy chloroquine Trump has now to hide underground in White House, rather than going to speak to many millions black people in his country.[/QUOTE]In the videos I'm seeing more white protesters than black ones. Many people are frustrated by loss of jobs, staying home, etc. Protesting covid as well.
German executives and their families returning to China. Tested before and after the flight. Passengers summoned to arrive airport not 2 hours before their flight, but 12 hours before their flight. If anything ISGers can just watch the video to get glimpses of Frankfurt Airport: [URL]https://youtu.be/U1j58QAT57A[/URL].
I assume this is a requirement just for entry into China, and that regardless of destination, international air travel protocols will not be that stringent, when commercial air travel picks up again. Anybody been on international flights recently?
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2455752]From FT: use the link for the whole article.
[URL]https://www.ft.com/content/dae6d006-9adc-46d5-9b4e-79a7841022e8[/URL]
The architect of Sweden's controversial lighter lockdown policy for dealing with coronavirus has for the first time conceded the Scandinavian country should have imposed more restrictions to avoid having such a high death toll.
Anders Tegnell, Sweden's state epidemiologist, agreed with the interviewer on Sveriges Radio that too many people had died in the country.
"If we would encounter the same disease, with exactly what we know about it today, I think we would land midway between what Sweden did and what the rest of the world did," said Mr Tegnell in the interview broadcast on Wednesday morning.
Mr Tegnell's admission is striking as for months he has criticized other countries' lockdowns and insisted that Sweden's approach was more sustainable despite heavy international scrutiny of its stubbornly high death toll.[/QUOTE]I think nobody knew about how work this new killer virus, so, many countries made many mistakes, but only one Trump and one Bolsonaro, Africa was lucky with weather, Olympics will tell for Japan and time will tell for China.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2455399]Well when I first read it, I wasn't sure if they were plagiarizing '28 Days Later' or 'Rise of the Planet of the Apes'. But monkeys are a serious part of Indian life. They are considered sacred, like cows. When lockdown happened, monkeys took over the deserted streets.[/QUOTE]Monkeys as sacred as cows in India? Really! Have you ever been there? Stop spamming, please.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2456439]Monkeys as sacred as cows in India? Really! Have you ever been there? Stop spamming, please.[/QUOTE]Salaam Dreams. If you wish to educate yourself, you don't have to look far. Here is a good article:
[URL]https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/8gdw5x/monkeys-are-taking-over-india[/URL]
The divine monkey, Hanuman, is worshipped by Hindus.
[QUOTE=Dreams;2456439]Monkeys as sacred as cows in India? Really! Have you ever been there? Stop spamming, please.[/QUOTE]He probably has and you haven't or you would know. Monkeys are as sacred as cows. I have been there.
Guys,
Look up FURIN cleavage and Covid-19.
In other words, there are now strong evidence that the virus was cocked up in a lab. And of course it was! Otherwise all my previous theories had fallen flat. Which they never do.
As usual, it all leads back to cocks and cleavages.
And don't take my word on it, but the words of Dr Ronen Shemesh.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2457270]Guys,
Look up FURIN cleavage and Covid-19.
In other words, there are now strong evidence that the virus was cocked up in a lab. And of course it was! Otherwise all my previous theories had fallen flat. Which they never do.
As usual, it all leads back to cocks and cleavages.
And don't take my word on it, but the words of Dr Ronen Shemesh.[/QUOTE]Personally, I think that is not possible. I base my opinion on the fact that the erudite resident scientist who believes only the experts and no one else has already proclaimed that scientific consensus was formed in March 2020 which stated in very clear language that no Chinese lab was involved in anyway, whatsoever. The wording of the consensus was very absolute according to our science expert. I am not sure why all these Israeli and Australian scientists are still working on this issue. They must not have gotten the memo that a consensus has been ordered and no further research is required.
I used to agree with you Pistons and I had the same views as you articulated here but after the erudite science expert told us very clearly, I had to modify my views and I did. I now believe I was wrong, I must rigidly believe in the scientist consensus from this moment on -- call it faith, even. I will leave it to you however, whether to keep reading the words of Dr. Shemesh and other Australian, Israeli and US scientists. Thanks very much for the message though.
Gathering so called 'scientific consensus' is standard PR / lobbying / propaganda work. 100% communication. 0% science. It also involve tweaking numbers.
P.S: I know you are joking.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2457270]
In other words, there are now strong evidence that the virus was cocked up in a lab.[/QUOTE]Salaam Pistons,
The Wuhan lab was engaged in the notorious "gain-of-function" research, which was previously banned in the US. Gain-of-function research is about making viruses more deadly rather than less deadly. Some scientists say it helps them understand viruses better.
It's a bit like building a missile launcher and saying, "We don't want to launch missiles. We just want to guess how other nations might launch missiles and see how we might stop that if it happened. ".
You might think that sounds a bit thin.
Details for anyone who is interested: [URL]https://www.vox.com/2020/5/1/21243148/why-some-labs-work-on-making-viruses-deadlier-and-why-they-should-stop[/URL].
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2457471]Salaam Pistons,
The Wuhan lab was engaged in the notorious "gain-of-function" research, which was previously banned in the US. Gain-of-function research is about making viruses more deadly rather than less deadly. Some scientists say it helps them understand viruses better.
It's a bit like building a missile launcher and saying, "We don't want to launch missiles. We just want to guess how other nations might launch missiles and see how we might stop that if it happened. ".
You might think that sounds a bit thin.
Details for anyone who is interested: [URL]https://www.vox.com/2020/5/1/21243148/why-some-labs-work-on-making-viruses-deadlier-and-why-they-should-stop[/URL].[/QUOTE]Yeah, similar lab was found in Sierra Leone, 'researching' Ebola.
By the way, the Covid-19 doesn't only have that FURIN cleavage I mentioned, which doesn't come naturally in nature at just one mutation, and at exactly the right location on the corona. But it also has an Ace2 receptor which makes it even more contagious among humans than among bats. Weird how these two totally different mutations mutated simultaneously on the same single bat, or one the same single animal betwen bats and humans, at the exact same time. While the same Covid-19 virus is still not found among bats. Only a close related virus.
It is almost as if that intermediate animal was a petri dish.
If that does not settle it, then you might as well believe in Santa Claus and flying unicorns.
Pekin again under virus, when China is closed for foreigners. Brazil, some parts of South America, India, South Africa, and again some US states, are under virus, when Western Europe should open inside borders on Monday, except for UK and Spain. Then possible to go to Swiss clubs which are already opened.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2458158]Pekin again under virus, when China is closed for foreigners. Brazil, some parts of South America, India, South Africa, and again some US states, are under virus, when Western Europe should open inside borders on Monday, except for UK and Spain. Then possible to go to Swiss clubs which are already opened.[/QUOTE]The COVID doesn't care about borders. The southern hemisphere enters cold and flu season.
And sees an influx in COVID cases which was predicted months ago. I live in a sparsely populated area about the size of Germany. During the lock down there was still a lot of activity but low virus spread. We now see people moving across and into the area for summer vacation and the infection rates are accelerating. I predict that the US will fail at implementing any future lock down and the virus will run it's course.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2456043]I think nobody knew about how work this new killer virus, so, many countries made many mistakes, but only one Trump and one Bolsonaro, Africa was lucky with weather, Olympics will tell for Japan and time will tell for China.[/QUOTE]If I were you, I wouldn't pay much attention to Bolsonaro or Trump. They're just doing what they've promised what their voters elected them to do. Japan is doing fine without complete lockdown which has caused so much damage to the economy and society. How's the French economy working out so far compared that to Japan? You should be worrying about your Emmanuel Macron who is the darling of the global elitists that have screwed their own working class citizens by following the globalism crap. Remember how Brexit came about? There is a chance that Macron may not even be able to finish his current term. Many members of parliament (MP) of his party have abandoned him. The Yellow Vest protests will go on. Waiting in the wings is the anti globalist Marine LE Pen who possibly one day will become the president of France. Wouldn't be surprised if that ever happens. There might even be a Frexit in the future. Who knows. Time will tell. The wind is blowing in the other direction all over the world, not the direction you like. Keep sticking your head in the sand if you want. Good luck.
[QUOTE=SinglePro;2458584]If I were you, I wouldn't pay much attention to Bolsonaro or Trump. They're just doing what they've promised what their voters elected them to do. [/QUOTE]Yes, in fact we all can see: 1) The finished mighty new wall with Mexico, which was entirely paid by Mexico; 2) the 35% tariff for any car imported into US; 3) The re-opening of the coal mines and the miners happily going underground again; 4) Covid has disappeared miraculously in April, just like Trump said and so on.
[QUOTE=SinglePro;2458584] The Yellow Vest protests will go on. Waiting in the wings is the anti globalist Marine LE Pen who possibly one day will become the president of France. Wouldn't be surprised if that ever happens. There might even be a Frexit in the future. Who knows. Time will tell. The wind is blowing in the other direction all over the world, not the direction you like. Keep sticking your head in the sand if you want. Good luck.[/QUOTE]Maybe you should get your head out of the Brexit foul-stinking sand and face reality! You have been conned about Brexit my friend, sorry about that, mate! Big hugs!
Headline news are saying China India are in some kinda military tiff and China killed 20+ Indian troops.
This is inline with prior discussion about China using Corona virus damage that was inflicted on its rivals and trying to take them on economically, trade wise, and militarily; HK is already occupied, Taiwan is being bullied; Philippines was badgered 2 years ago. Now India will take a beating.
I am sure our erudite expert (s) will disagree and tell me I am completely misreading this, or that there is not enough consensus that China is in any real confrontation with India. Perhaps FT and WSJ are wrong. But here are two links; perhaps FT and WSJ may not be sufficiently up to the standards of erudite masters, and I hope they can correct me and these two publications where they made mistakes.
[URL]https://www.ft.com/content/15a1cc68-4ab8-4acf-b230-7fe331adca33[/URL]#comments-anchor.
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-china-border-dispute-turns-deadly-11592305962?mod=hp_lead_pos4[/URL]
China back under virus.
770.000 HIV deaths in 2018, when some seem to think not dangerous.
Progress in Germany / EU versus the US:
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2459304]China back under virus.
770.000 HIV deaths in 2018, when some seem to think not dangerous.[/QUOTE]Of which probably less than 1000 in France and Germany.
[QUOTE=LeyenLouvain;2459823]Of which probably less than 1000 in France and Germany.[/QUOTE]If You mean less than 1000 HIV deaths in France, I would like so much You are right, but I'm pretty sure we have much more. About Germany, any doctor would confirm risk for AO RTC, I think more dangerous than virus, because healthy recover from virus, when healthy is not anymore healthy under HIV.
Coronavirus was already in Italy by December, waste water study finds.
[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53106444[/URL]
That make me wonder, was the Virus in Frankfurt earlier than March?? I was having nice time in Sharks late February! Maybe too many girls already had it!! Who knows.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2459790]Progress in Germany / EU versus the US:[/QUOTE]How do these numbers work out per capita and how do the percentage of fatalities compare? Using comparative statistics only Germany is impressing me with these numbers. As far a bagging on the US, we have enough other problems that are low hanging fruit, but. All this crap we are experiencing are like "The Shot Heard Around The World" and any other country may wake up to a new turmoil they didn't even know was getting warm and now they find it boiling.
[QUOTE=Tuber19;2459880]Coronavirus was already in Italy by December, waste water study finds.
[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-53106444[/URL]
That make me wonder, was the Virus in Frankfurt earlier than March?? I was having nice time in Sharks late February! Maybe too many girls already had it!! Who knows.[/QUOTE]Some got virus on October after international military competition in China, but nobody knew what it was and China lied for months, to try to save their already falling cheap economy, and when they don t respect also for pollution which kill much more than virus, US also don t respect for pollution, but they have Trump who found HIV vaccine. Funny crazy world where real white bears don t have anymore home on ice, Bangladesh will be soon new Atlantis with millions new fishes, and in few years, no more snow for me to ski. Virus will kill less in France than pollution, or cigarettes.
[URL]https://www.dw.com/en/coronavirus-german-slaughterhouse-outbreak-crosses-1000/a-53883372[/URL]
Hopefully this will not hurt fight to open the FKK sex clubs and be contained. If the link was already posted by one of the guy who copies links over here already apologies for the double posting. Takes time for my posts to appear. But anyway, let hope they get it under control ASAP.
A couple of months ago I said South Korea was kicking ass in the fight against Coronavirus. It didn't look like anybody could do better. But now Switzerland is ranked #1 and Germany #2 out of 200 nations studied. South Korea is #10.
[URL]https://www.thelocal.ch/20200607/switzerland-officially-the-worlds-safest-country-for-coronavirus[/URL]
[QUOTE=SinglePro;2458584]If I were you, I wouldn't pay much attention to Bolsonaro or Trump. They're just doing what they've promised what their voters elected them to do..[/QUOTE]Trump is just doing what he thinks he needs to do to get re-elected. It seems less people are buying his lies lately as his poll numbers are dropping. I had to laugh when I saw many of his brain washed supporters carring the " Make America Great Again" posters at his rally today. That slogan is now better suited for Biden after Trump spent the last 3 1/2 years F*ucking up my country for his own personal gain!
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2459011]Headline news are saying China India are in some kinda military tiff and China killed 20+ Indian troops.
This is inline with prior discussion about China using Corona virus damage that was inflicted on its rivals and trying to take them on economically, trade wise, and militarily; HK is already occupied, Taiwan is being bullied; Philippines was badgered 2 years ago. Now India will take a beating.
I am sure our erudite expert (s) will disagree and tell me I am completely misreading this, or that there is not enough consensus that China is in any real confrontation with India. Perhaps FT and WSJ are wrong. But here are two links; perhaps FT and WSJ may not be sufficiently up to the standards of erudite masters, and I hope they can correct me and these two publications where they made mistakes.
[URL]https://www.ft.com/content/15a1cc68-4ab8-4acf-b230-7fe331adca33[/URL]#comments-anchor.
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/india-china-border-dispute-turns-deadly-11592305962?mod=hp_lead_pos4[/URL][/QUOTE]The news is correct. I am living in India for last 2 years (atleast 10 months a year). Anyways China is bullying India a lot as well as its neighbors in south China sea, Taiwan and HK. I am sure they want to achieve one thing remove all US influence in this region. China cannot escape that it gave corona to the world. And it has all weather friend Pakistan, NK, Nepal and other few as well. The main problem is India is fighting corona and is yet to reach its peak. So don't know where this all will lead to. Many people and government is looking at US for support but yet to hear anything. I don't know what China is achieving by being a bully. Is it thinking that it can simply replace US as super power?
[quote]The news is correct. I am living in India for last 2 years (atleast 10 months a year). Anyways China is bullying India a lot as well as its neighbors in south China sea, Taiwan and HK. I am sure they want to achieve one thing remove all US influence in this region. China cannot escape that it gave corona to the world. And it has all weather friend Pakistan, NK, Nepal and other few as well. The main problem is India is fighting corona and is yet to reach its peak. So don't know where this all will lead to. Many people and government is looking at US for support but yet to hear anything. I don't know what China is achieving by being a bully. Is it thinking that it can simply replace US as super po.[/quote]Reply: I worked 5 years in India, India has not only to fight the covid 19, they are facing a lot of challenges, how can we imagine that India has more or less no highways, the trains are at least 70 years old, critical shortage of electricity.
Extremely segregate populations, between religions, castes, ethnics. 50 years back China and India where at the same level of development, today China is probably not far to be the super power number 1 and India is still struggling to start to develop, without speaking about the crazy unbalanced ratio woman to man which leads in some places to have 60 man for 40 woman: so many sexually frustrated young man with 0 access to sex.
[QUOTE=Tp273;2460153]Trump is just doing what he thinks he needs to do to get re-elected. I had to laugh when I saw many of his brain washed supporters carrying the " Make America Great Again" posters at his rally today. That slogan is now better suited for Biden.[/QUOTE]Yeah, no kidding! How incredibly ironic! Although, I thought the slogan for this campaign was going to be "Keep America Great". But as you say, the 2016 slogan would be more fitting. For the other guy!
[QUOTE=Tp273;2460153]Trump is just doing what he thinks he needs to do to get re-elected. It seems less people are buying his lies lately as his poll numbers are dropping. I had to laugh when I saw many of his brain washed supporters carring the " Make America Great Again" posters at his rally today. That slogan is now better suited for Biden after Trump spent the last 3 1/2 years F*ucking up my country for his own personal gain![/QUOTE]A Trump supporter carrying a "Make America Great Again" sign at a 2020 Trump rally is not very smart. After Trump's full term in office shouldn't protesters at Trump's rallies be carrying that sign now?
Informal poll. Curious about this. You can be as vague as you want. I am curious about these two, and especially if you are living in Europe.
-Grocery stores.
-Not so densely populated streets, parks, etc.
I'll go first:
East Coast USA.
- 100%.
- 60%.
I know these numbers depends on number of other factors but let's not go there.
TIA.
[QUOTE=SaratogaX;2460338]Informal poll. Curious about this. You can be as vague as you want. I am curious about these two, and especially if you are living in Europe.
-Grocery stores.
-Not so densely populated streets, parks, etc.
I'll go first:
East Coast USA.
- 100%.
- 60%.
I know these numbers depends on number of other factors but let's not go there.
TIA.[/QUOTE]When I took gas in Germany, woman on shop desk told me: mask on is law. Masks are quite rare in Paris streets.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2460179]Reply: I worked 5 years in India, India has not only to fight the covid 19, they are facing a lot of challenges, how can we imagine that India has more or less no highways, the trains are at least 70 years old, critical shortage of electricity.
Extremely segregate populations, between religions, castes, ethnics. 50 years back China and India where at the same level of development, today China is probably not far to be the super power number 1 and India is still struggling to start to develop, without speaking about the crazy unbalanced ratio woman to man which leads in some places to have 60 man for 40 woman: so many sexually frustrated young man with 0 access to sex.[/QUOTE]On western Europe standards, China is low quality, only worthing because cheap, but not for quality and reliability like for tests. Europe have to produce for our safety and health in Europe.
When I planned a Switzerland tour on this week end, but after no room at Swiss on Thursday evening when I was not able to go to girls and some came to me, but not able to desire, after Friday at Freubad where I needed 2 hours to go to a elegant desirable look, and 2 other rooms after, so I skipped Globe and Amesia to go in my beloved mountains. Great Sunday today, for breakfast, running up la Madeleine versus motorbikes accelerating and braking more, but they couldn't compete in curves and on really high speed, even I had to be careful about bicycles, then climbing telegraphe even more than 35 degrees at the bottom in Saint Michel Maurienne, not bad for just training at the moment, but best pleasure was to see Swiss, Italians, even NL, Germans, Austrians and Spanish already in France when only opened since less than a week, really happy for employment in my little so beautiful France which need tourism income when many Europeans love France for our quality of life. Wish for many European tourists on this Summer, even no US nor Asians.
I've only seen 2 people wear face masks in the city I live in (400 k people) since this whole thing started. And that was on the street.
Northern Europe.
[QUOTE=SaratogaX;2460338]Informal poll. Curious about this. You can be as vague as you want. I am curious about these two, and especially if you are living in Europe.
-Grocery stores.
-Not so densely populated streets, parks, etc.[/QUOTE]Zurich.
- 4%. Only some of the old people.
- 0% practically nobody.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2460179]Reply: I worked 5 years in India, India has not only to fight the covid 19, they are facing a lot of challenges, how can we imagine that India has more or less no highways, the trains are at least 70 years old, critical shortage of electricity.
Extremely segregate populations, between religions, castes, ethnics. 50 years back China and India where at the same level of development, today China is probably not far to be the super power number 1 and India is still struggling to start to develop, without speaking about the crazy unbalanced ratio woman to man which leads in some places to have 60 man for 40 woman: so many sexually frustrated young man with 0 access to sex.[/QUOTE]Yes I do agree on this. There has been some recent development on infrastructure but no where near China. I am just talking about bullying, I still think China is not superpower. With superpower comes lot of responsibility. You have take everyone with you.
Also there will always be difference between democracy and communist regime.
[QUOTE=JustTimePass;2460405]Yes I do agree on this. There has been some recent development on infrastructure but no where near China. I am just talking about bullying, I still think China is not superpower. With superpower comes lot of responsibility. You have take everyone with you.
Also there will always be difference between democracy and communist regime.[/QUOTE]I think that in order to be a true super power, not only must you be able to project military and economic power abroad, but you must also be able to extend your cultural values around the world too. China has not done that (Russia failed in this regard also), and I don't see them doing it anytime soon. That, in turn, will prevent China from becoming the leading, predominate diplomatic power and influencer in the world as well.
[QUOTE=SaratogaX;2460338]Informal poll. Curious about this. You can be as vague as you want. I am curious about these two, and especially if you are living in Europe.
-Grocery stores.
-Not so densely populated streets, parks, etc.
I'll go first:
East Coast USA.
- 100%.
- 60%.
I know these numbers depends on number of other factors but let's not go there.
TIA.[/QUOTE]Upstate NY.
Grocery stores - 99 %.
Walmart 90% Always a few assholes who only care about themselves or maybe Trump supporters?
Parks & walking Trails. Only 5 % this last week.
Outdoor venues (Flea Markets & garage sales) only 10 %.
I think many feel the worst is over so they can go back to the old ways. Very few know the Spanish Flue had a similar downturn before it came back even worst a few months later and ended up taking out 50 MILLION people. WEAR THE MASK!!
Anyone got any reports about percentage of working prostitutes wearing masks when they are with clients? Talking about Germany, not other countries.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2460270]A Trump supporter carrying a "Make America Great Again" sign at a 2020 Trump rally is not very smart. After Trump's full term in office shouldn't protesters at Trump's rallies be carrying that sign now?[/QUOTE]Most of the crowd had those posters. If these people are supporting Trump again then they are not very smart to begin with! The good news is that after Trump boasted over 1 million people wanted to attend his Rally only less than 6,500 showed up. Looks like most of the folks in Oklahoma are smarting up. Now if they only figure out WEARING A MASK is not a political thing.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2459790]Progress in Germany / EU versus the US:[/QUOTE]I was sceptical at first, but like many of you I have come to believe that the key to controlling the Wu-Flu is [B]face masks[/B]. When people wear face masks in public spaces, the virus cannot attach itself to shared surfaces, and so it has no route to infect others. [NOPARSE]
If everybody in the US had been wearing face masks over the past few months, the same as in Germany, then it would have the same downward curve as Germany (and most other countries). In fact the whole world could have avoided lockdown entirely simply by wearing face masks for two weeks in February or the whole month of March.
Asian countries have experienced other severe flus and were quick to don face masks in February. Europe reluctantly learnt to do the same in March. Due to increased travel, the world will experience more and more pandemics, and Europe will also develop the habit of putting on face masks whenever a new flu starts.
Unfortunately the culture in English-speaking countries, particularly the US, is such that face masks are seen as an oppressive NWO sort of thing. The US also suffered from (1) having an unprecedentedly incompetent administration at the time the pandemic struck, making it impossible to organize a useful response at the federal level, and (2) the long-term "red in tooth and claw" nature of its public healthcare system.
As borders tentatively reopen over the next few months, we may see a weird situation where EU countries allow in Asians but not Africans or Americans 😞. Of course Trump's response would be to stoke popular fury and declare a massive trade war or worse on Europe, resulting in further chaos and economic decline everywhere.
Enjoy![/NOPARSE]
[I]"Let the waters settle, and you will see the Moon and the Stars mirrored in your own being."[/I] - Rumi.
P.S. I still think the idea of prostitutes wearing masks is stupid. Sorry. If you're not comfortable with each other physically, then you can't have real sex.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2460627]As borders tentatively reopen over the next few months, we may see a weird situation where EU countries allow in Asians but not Africans or Americans. Of course Trump's response would be to stoke popular fury and declare a massive trade war or worse on Europe, resulting in further chaos and economic decline everywhere.
P.S. I still think the idea of prostitutes wearing masks is stupid. Sorry. If you're not comfortable with each other physically, then you can't have real sex.[/QUOTE]Well, I think it's pretty safe for me to say that I will be able to get back into Brazil hahaha! And I too think that seeing a tute wearing a mask is a stupid idea. And you just know there are some who will try to charge a monger 50 euros extra (or more) to remove the mask! You know it's true! LOL!
NRW imposes broad new lockdown restrictions! This is a major setback for a reopening of the FKK clubs in that region of Germany.
[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-lockdown-north-rhine-westphalia-meat-factory-outbreak-a9580686.html?amp[/URL]
The way I see it sex with both parties wearing a face mask in an FKK means no DFK, no BBBJ and no DATY which for me means no use crossing the Atlantic.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2460810]The way I see it sex with both parties wearing a face mask in an FKK means no DFK, no BBBJ and no DATY which for me means no use crossing the Atlantic.[/QUOTE]You got that right! I won't be crossing the Atlantic until I can do so without any quarantine requirements, and not until things have returned to business as usual in the clubs (no distancing, no masks, no gloves, and so on).
[QUOTE=TheCane;2460770]NRW imposes broad new lockdown restrictions! This is a major setback for a reopening of the FKK clubs in that region of Germany.
[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-lockdown-north-rhine-westphalia-meat-factory-outbreak-a9580686.html?amp[/URL][/QUOTE]Thankfully it is all the way up between Munster and Bielefeld. And not in southern Rhein-Ruhr.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2460847]Thankfully it is all the way up between Munster and Bielefeld. And not in southern Rhein-Ruhr.[/QUOTE]No matter! RKI will be keeping a careful eye on Gütersloh [I]and[/I] Warendorf to watch for the virus spreading. It should make leaders even more cautious and they may get even more reluctant to open the FKK's. I noticed last week that the states are working together more and with the federal government on joint planning instead of going their own way.
This whole thing is so hyped up. Daily deaths are crashing all over. In Germany deaths and even new cases have been crashing since May. So overblown.
https://www.google.com/search?ei=uk_yXpPgFKq-gge47bvoBQ&q=covid+19+germany+cases&oq=covid+19+germany+cases&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzICCAAyAggAOgQIABBHUKc9WIZKYLZNaABwAngAgAFbiAGBA5IBATWYAQCgAQGgAQKqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiTpbSIzpjqAhUqn-AKHbj2Dl0Q4dUDCAw&uact=5
[QUOTE=TheCane;2460770]NRW imposes broad new lockdown restrictions! This is a major setback for a reopening of the FKK clubs in that region of Germany.
[URL]https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-coronavirus-lockdown-north-rhine-westphalia-meat-factory-outbreak-a9580686.html?amp[/URL][/QUOTE]When they need to put more than 600000 people under confined in NRW, maybe Germany have to be careful. Lisboa is also under confined. Austria is more isolated between Hungary, Czech, and German and Swiss won't go for brothels. Switzerland is too expensive for most, even not many Asians at Globe. But Germany is a big brothel, dangerous playfield.
Maybe not best news for any man wishing to travel from USA to Germany.
[URL]https://www.france24.com/en/20200623-european-union-usa-tourism-ban-covid-19-coliseum[/URL]
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage[/URL]
OK, so there goes the FKK plan for any American sex tourist if this news is accurate.
Back in March, Trump was strutting around with his announcement that he is blocking travel from Some EU nations. This would be appropriate retribution from them now.
I was not planning on attending FKKs until there is a reliable vaccine or until the infection rates are minuscule all over the place. But for guys who keep asking when the clubs are going to open. If you are an American, you may be out of luck for a while even if the clubs open in a normal or limited capacity at some point.
FWIW, I continue to be very skeptical that the large German clubs like Oase and Sharks will open any time before September, and It is highly unlikely prior to even December in my personal view.
[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2460875]This whole thing is so hyped up. Daily deaths are crashing all over. In Germany deaths and even new cases have been crashing since May. So overblown.
https://www.google.com/search?ei=uk_yXpPgFKq-gge47bvoBQ&q=covid+19+germany+cases&oq=covid+19+germany+cases&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzICCAAyAggAOgQIABBHUKc9WIZKYLZNaABwAngAgAFbiAGBA5IBATWYAQCgAQGgAQKqAQdnd3Mtd2l6&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwiTpbSIzpjqAhUqn-AKHbj2Dl0Q4dUDCAw&uact=5[/QUOTE]Graph shows 500+ cases average last 3 days. What happens if I fly to Germany and become one of the 500? Until there is a working vaccine it not worth the risk!
That's your call of course. Just remember that 500 cases amongst a population of 83,000,000 is pretty tiny.
[QUOTE=Tp273;2461074]Graph shows 500+ cases average last 3 days. What happens if I fly to Germany and become one of the 500? Until there is a working vaccine it not worth the risk![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2460959][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/23/world/europe/coronavirus-EU-American-travel-ban.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage[/URL][/QUOTE]Reaching a bit, but I could see two potential glimmers of hope in that article:[QUOTE]"European officials said the list would be revised every two weeks to reflect new realities around the world as nations see the virus ebb and flow."
[/QUOTE]Although I cannot imagine buying intercontinental tickets in summer with two weeks lead time would be cheap.[QUOTE]"The E.U. cant force members to adopt it, but European officials warn that failure of any of the 27 members to stick to it could lead to the reintroduction of borders within the bloc."
[/QUOTE]See my post in General. Of the major economies, Spain is one of the most dependent on tourism. If I interpret the above snippet correctly, there is an off-chance that Spain could permit American inbound tourists. But that would effectively mean that the other 26 member countries would close their borders to Spain. In that scenario, an American monger could find himself stuck in Spain, where brothels are currently reported to be running at lower capacity. If German clubs remain closed, perhaps Spain receives some displaced ex-FKK WGs as refugees.
I really don't understand US with many southern states under virus, but no confined, and even many quite young infected. For the record for death. Worrying from Europe, where even French could be confined.
[QUOTE=MaxSquatter;2461143]That's your call of course. Just remember that 500 cases amongst a population of 83,000,000 is pretty tiny.[/QUOTE]500 as compared to 83,000,000?
Sounds like winning a 10,000,000 $ lottery.
Just now 300 people who visited a night club in Zurich the 21 of June where ask to quarantine at home due to 1 positive case detected, I still believe it is not the good time to visit prostitutes or FKK, the risk is high to catch something just because their customers are probably the less careful guys not able to control their libido or they will not go.
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2462364]Just now 300 people who visited a night club in Zurich the 21 of June where ask to quarantine at home due to 1 positive case detected, I still believe it is not the good time to visit prostitutes or FKK, the risk is high to catch something just because their customers are probably the less careful guys not able to control their libido or they will not go.[/QUOTE]What the FKK junkies do not understand is that due to their addiction it is very likely that in Germany they will be able to definitively close several FKK because once there are several infections maybe few politicians will not hesitate a minute to repeal the law that makes prostitution legal. Wait a few months until everything is a little more normal related to this pandemic. It is better to think with the head that we have above during these times.
[QUOTE=TeaInTheSun;2462813]What the FKK junkies do not understand is that due to their addiction it is very likely that in Germany they will be able to definitively close several FKK because once there are several infections maybe few politicians will not hesitate a minute to repeal the law that makes prostitution legal. Wait a few months until everything is a little more normal related to this pandemic. It is better to think with the head that we have above during these times.[/QUOTE]Do you really believe this is over in a few months?
If so, think again! We will be in this corona situation for 2-3 years. So we will just have to live with it. On and off lockdowns wherever.
I just hope they restrict air travels to a wider number of countries where they slack at monitoring and testing people. Testing should be everyone's number 1 priority. And making it globally transparent. Not like in China for example where a study recently found that 1.3 million people in Hubei province alone had been infected, and then the government keeps lying about it. And then maybe 100 other regimes around the world are following in China's footsteps.
So when we have all these fascist ego governments who likes to show the world how much greater they are at handling it than the rest, that is when we get resurgence of the pandemic. Unfortunately there are too many, and that is why we will not get rid of this ever unless something changes, and ego's goes away. But lets say in 2 years, all the fascists come to their senses.
I have watched many interviews with epidemiologists and various experts and based on that trying to avoid CV19 is futile; it will be around for many years and may resurge in 3, 5, 10 or 100 years, like most viruses. Key points: (I) CV19 likely to be around for at least 3 years this time, (ii) mortality rate around 0. 3% and 90% of deaths are 70+ yrs, (iii) large parts of the population is not susceptible to CV19 based on possible earlier Corona virus or simply strong immune system, (iv) heard immunity likely to be at 20-30% due to p. (iii) above, (v) the older you are the more difficult symptoms, and (vi) although vaccin may come next year there may be risks of side effects (like for the 2009 vaccin). As a result it is likely better for most people to contract CV19 now than later in life.
Based on an Italian town where they tested most of the inhabitants, they found that among the positive cases, 40 percent were asymptomatic: [URL]https://globalbiodefense.com/2020/06/30/whole-town-study-reveals-large-percentage-of-asymptomatic-covid-19-cases/[/URL].
Asymptomatic people seem to lose their antibodies much faster:
[QUOTE]"The results, while preliminary, suggest that survivors of SARS-CoV-2 infection may be susceptible to reinfection within weeks or months."
"These reports highlight the need to develop strong vaccines, because immunity that develops naturally during infection is suboptimal and short-lived in most people, Akiko Iwasaki, a viral immunologist at Yale University who was not involved in either study, tells The New York Times. We cannot rely on natural infection to achieve herd immunity.
https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/studies-report-rapid-loss-of-covid-19-antibodies-67650
[/QUOTE]If I understood above article correctly, asymptomatic people can get re-infected a few weeks later. My question is, if one is asymptomatic the first time, does that ensure that one will also be asymptomatic the second or third time? If the answer is yes, then such a person can go to FKK clubs with zero detriment to their own health. But this person could be a potential super spreader, and a portion of the people that they do infect may not have the fortune of being asymptomatic. So mongers need to decide, what their own conscience will allow.
We are still in the early stages, so I am not sure if death rates alone tell the full story. From a quality of life perspective, we do not know the long term outcomes for "survivors". Many people never develop symptoms. Many people experience nothing worse than a normal flu. But I believe there are reports of people who contracted the virus back in March, and while technically they "beat the virus" (meaning they are still alive), they still continue to have difficulties breathing three months later.
TBH, I will probably choose to not take an overly cautious approach, but I wouldn't criticize those that have lower risk tolerance. A few mongers who live in France, Germany, and Benelux told me they will either continue to abstain from WGs or just see WGs privately in hotels, believing the clubs to be petri dishes. Another monger friend is not concerned about health risks, but he is concerned that the LU will be at half strength and that some WGs may upsell for DFK, so he will wait for the first batch of reports to flow in before committing to a visit. If we all rush back right away, it might embolden those WGs with upselling tendencies.
American Airlines announcing today that they will begin stuffing passengers into the middle seats again until the planes burst with capacity. And you wonder why the EU wants to keep Americans the hell out? I won't be flying to EU or anywhere else unless they have a vaccine or effective therapeutic. Thanks China.
[QUOTE=Oregon97;2462962]I have watched many interviews with epidemiologists and various experts and based on that trying to avoid CV19 is futile; it will be around for many years and may resurge in 3, 5, 10 or 100 years, like most viruses. Key points: (I) CV19 likely to be around for at least 3 years this time, (ii) mortality rate around 0. 3% and 90% of deaths are 70+ yrs, (iii) large parts of the population is not susceptible to CV19 based on possible earlier Corona virus or simply strong immune system, (iv) heard immunity likely to be at 20-30% due to p. (iii) above, (v) the older you are the more difficult symptoms, and (vi) although vaccin may come next year there may be risks of side effects (like for the 2009 vaccin). As a result it is likely better for most people to contract CV19 now than later in life.[/QUOTE]Salaam Oregon97. Good points. Sounds like it is healthier to be out in the wild having lots of sex than huddling in the cellar with your mask and gloves on. You only live once, might as well make the most of it.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2461388]I really don't understand US with many southern states under virus, but no confined, and even many quite young infected. For the record for death. Worrying from Europe, where even French could be confined.[/QUOTE]Just like American politics, it's not your problem to worry about. You are in Europe, going to prostitute princesses. We are locked out so we won't be infecting your favorite prostitutes so no worry. I am curious how intimate physical contact with a stranger who is sharing bodily fluids with other people is considered confined, unless said intimate contact is happening in a Swiss prison.
We are closing in on 1% infected. Depending on the study, this means in another 19-89% we will reach heard immunity. A few weeks ago the Swedish government was being praised for their free range approach to managing the infection. So, as long as you are there, watch for loose rocks and water in the corners when descending on your bike, watch for bottomless crevices while you free ride, keep an eye on the Coyote so you don't get tickets in Switzerland and keep a close watch for prostitutes with runny noses.
[QUOTE=Oregon97;2462962]I have watched many interviews with epidemiologists and various experts and based on that trying to avoid CV19 is futile; it will be around for many years and may resurge in 3, 5, 10 or 100 years, like most viruses. Key points: (I) CV19 likely to be around for at least 3 years this time, (ii) mortality rate around 0. 3% and 90% of deaths are 70+ yrs, (iii) large parts of the population is not susceptible to CV19 based on possible earlier Corona virus or simply strong immune system, (iv) heard immunity likely to be at 20-30% due to p. (iii) above, (v) the older you are the more difficult symptoms, and (vi) although vaccin may come next year there may be risks of side effects (like for the 2009 vaccin). As a result it is likely better for most people to contract CV19 now than later in life.[/QUOTE]The hope is that the virus becomes weaker and, even if it remains in the population like many other coronaviruses, it would just cause mild symptoms. This is what happened with the Spanish flu at the beginning of 1900. We still get Spanish flu, but now the virus only causes mild flu-symptoms and very few people die from it.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2463194]The hope is that the virus becomes weaker and, even if it remains in the population like many other coronaviruses, it would just cause mild symptoms. This is what happened with the Spanish flu at the beginning of 1900. We still get Spanish flu, but now the virus only causes mild flu-symptoms and very few people die from it.[/QUOTE]I have heard this argument so many times, but I wonder if you are really considering the following:
- There are already probably thousands of mutations of the virus. On the Faroe Islands alone, a tiny island, there were 40 different mutations among a small sample base!
- The chances foe the FURIN cleavage and the ACE2 receptor to mutate away is still extremely small. So the transmittance rate will still stay at the same rate.
- Even if half the mutations mutates away, the remaining half does not mutate away. So you will still have the original virus at some places.
- Some mutations may be even deadlier than what we have had now. Covid-19 is far from the deadliest version seen of corona viruses when looking at history. It just spreads alot more efficient among humans! (Read the modified FURIN cleavage and Ace2 receptor added in a lab).
The FURIN cleavage and Ace2 receptors on the virus is also key to why making a vaccine is so difficult. According to one doctor, there was a 79% chance of attaining bad side effects from the vaccines themselves, since it has to focus on the part of the virus that attaches to human cells.
So forget about that idea if you ask me! Some idiots might still give it a go however. The scientist I heard this from was working on a vaccine focusing on the remaining 21% of the virus. But that would still mean a 21% chance of side effects according to him. And by the way, this is how all vaccines work.
But I totally agree with Oregon. We cannot all go into hiding for the next 100 years. Although escaping into our own The Matrix might be an option. But that is decades away. Most likely. At least before it gets any good.
I previously talked about how South Korea and Switzerland had handled the pandemic comparatively well. But I would also like to salute Taiwan. They always had strained relations with China, so they did not believe the lies coming out at the beginning of the year, and took swift action. The result?
Total deaths: 7.
Active cases: 4.
Recoveries: 438.
Also a shout-out to Sweden, which received harsh criticism for not implementing a lockdown. Yesterday, it recorded zero deaths from COVID-19 on that day. The US had 671.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2463510]I previously talked about how South Korea and Switzerland had handled the pandemic comparatively well. But I would also like to salute Taiwan. They always had strained relations with China, so they did not believe the lies coming out at the beginning of the year, and took swift action. The result?
Total deaths: 7.
Active cases: 4.
Recoveries: 438.
Also a shout-out to Sweden, which received harsh criticism for not implementing a lockdown. Yesterday, it recorded zero deaths from COVID-19 on that day. The US had 671.[/QUOTE]Although not the PRC, Taiwan did utilize some pretty harsh, draconian tactics that would be considered a violation of privacy in the West. But then again, that's just the problem with the West when it comes to handling something like this, especially in the United States. Everybody is quick to assert their rights, but they aren't too quick to talk about and fulfill their responsibilities to others. People are far too concerned with freedom of expression versus the need to exercise some self-restraint. Throw in ineffective leadership, and the disease runs rampant!
[QUOTE=Pistons;2463466]The FURIN cleavage and Ace2 receptors on the virus is also key to why making a vaccine is so difficult. According to one doctor, there was a 79% chance of attaining bad side effects from the vaccines themselves, since it has to focus on the part of the virus that attaches to human cells.
So forget about that idea if you ask me! Some idiots might still give it a go however. The scientist I heard this from was working on a vaccine focusing on the remaining 21% of the virus. But that would still mean a 21% chance of side effects according to him. And by the way, this is how all vaccines work.[/QUOTE]Stopped reading after poster states that there is an Ace2 receptor on the virus.
Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.
The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, about all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19.
The University of Alaska the 26th top rated university in the USA released a report on March 25th 2020 explicitly proving the US government's report "that took 7 years" about how building 7 of the World Trade Center collapsed was completely false. That means the US government lied about how the buildings came down on 9/11 2001 and the only way it could have happened was a controlled demolition. Building 7 was the home to CIA black ops and the Secret Service. Nobody heard about this news because COVID-19 miraculously went from 15 cases on February 28 to 70,000 cases by March 25th inundating the media with COVID-19 news.
Just in case a news story that you can verify from a major university doesn't convince you about the government's involvement in 9/11 here are some other facts.
The owner of the World Trade Centers took out an insurance policy for 3. 5 billion dollars covering "terrorist attacks" just a few months before the attacks.
Of the 84 videos capturing the attack on the pentagon on 9/11 only 4 have been released to the public because those 4 don't show the plane. Was there a plane?
In the US if a hospital reports a patient has Covid-19 they receive $12,000 or more and if they have to put this alleged covid-19 patient on a ventilator they receive another $39,000. They also receive an undisclosed amount for every Covid-19 death they report.
The US government stole $3 Trillion dollars, which has been added to US debt, to pay for the CARES act or Covid-19 relief act, of which less than $1 Trillion has been given to the people who actually need it, who are not millionaires, the other $2 Trillion and change went to government officials and people who are worth millions of dollars already.
The top billionaires in the US made almost a $1 Trillion dollars from the stock market after the panicked US middle classed population sold their plummeting stocks during the beginning of Covid-19 in the US. A few days later when the billionaires realized covid-19 was a big scam they bought the middle class' stock and made almost a $1 Trillion among them in total when the stock quickly recovered.
For those who can't quite comprehend how much 1 Trillion is, let me explain. 1 million seconds is about 11 days, 1 billion seconds is about 30 years, and 1 Trillion seconds is about 30,000 years.
The most dangerous thing you can do is tell a monger he needs to quarantine himself because we are hound dogs and we can find anything. Even the truth.
MM.
Please research and share. We need to spread the truth about what is happening so it ends quickly and never happens again.
Each country's government has gotten their own benefits from COVID-19 which is usually money. Do some research on your country. China used this lockdown opportunity to implement a laws that give them much more control over Hong Kong and now they extradite anyone they like from Hong Kong to Mainland China for pillaging. I mean trial.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2462844]Do you really believe this is over in a few months?
If so, think again! We will be in this corona situation for 2-3 years. So we will just have to live with it. On and off lockdowns wherever.
I just hope they restrict air travels to a wider number of countries where they slack at monitoring and testing people. Testing should be everyone's number 1 priority. And making it globally transparent. Not like in China for example where a study recently found that 1.3 million people in Hubei province alone had been infected, and then the government keeps lying about it. And then maybe 100 other regimes around the world are following in China's footsteps.
So when we have all these fascist ego governments who likes to show the world how much greater they are at handling it than the rest, that is when we get resurgence of the pandemic. Unfortunately there are too many, and that is why we will not get rid of this ever unless something changes, and ego's goes away. But lets say in 2 years, all the fascists come to their senses.[/QUOTE]Hey there! Obviously we have to live with this member of the corona's family as we have lived with his other brothers, like mers or sars. Everything seems to indicate that this virus could be weakening in Europe and other places and we may not have such an aggressive second wave next fall or winter. Additionally, we will have a vaccine, from Oxford, that seems effective and will give confidence, especially when we travel. Sure, this is an optimistic view. I prefer to wait until the end of the year to make travel plans, being September as key month to know if our plans are moving well or if we have to continue postponing them for a while.
[QUOTE=Oregon97;2462962]I have watched many interviews with epidemiologists and various experts and based on that trying to avoid CV19 is futile; it will be around for many years and may resurge in 3, 5, 10 or 100 years, like most viruses. Key points: (I) CV19 likely to be around for at least 3 years this time, (ii) mortality rate around 0. 3% and 90% of deaths are 70+ yrs, (iii) large parts of the population is not susceptible to CV19 based on possible earlier Corona virus or simply strong immune system, (iv) heard immunity likely to be at 20-30% due to p. (iii) above, (v) the older you are the more difficult symptoms, and (vi) although vaccin may come next year there may be risks of side effects (like for the 2009 vaccin). As a result it is likely better for most people to contract CV19 now than later in life.[/QUOTE]Good points. Another thing that is very important and we should be clearer from the experts is what happens to the possibilities of re-infection or how long can our immune system protect itself if we are positive. Based on this, we can have a better idea of what will happen with us in the near future. I know vaccines can always be controversial, but based on all the trusted information we have now, I think the Oxford vaccine, being tested in Brazil, might be the most reliable. Let see.
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2463542]Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.
The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, about all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19.
The University of Alaska the 26th top rated university in the USA released a report on March 25th 2020 explicitly proving the US government's report "that took 7 years" about how building 7 of the World Trade Center collapsed was completely false. That means the US government lied about how the buildings came down on 9/11 2001 and the only way it could have happened was a controlled demolition. Building 7 was the home to CIA black ops and the Secret Service. Nobody heard about this news because COVID-19 miraculously went from 15 cases on February 28 to 70,000 cases by March 25th inundating the media with COVID-19 news.
Just in case a news story that you can verify from a major university doesn't convince you about the government's involvement in 9/11 here are some other facts.
The owner of the World Trade Centers took out an insurance policy for 3. 5 billion dollars covering "terrorist attacks" just a few months before the attacks.
Of the 84 videos capturing the attack on the pentagon on 9/11 only 4 have been released to the public because those 4 don't show the plane. Was there a plane?
In the US if a hospital reports a patient has Covid-19 they receive $12,000 or more and if they have to put this alleged covid-19 patient on a ventilator they receive another $39,000. They also receive an undisclosed amount for every Covid-19 death they report..[/QUOTE]With more than 10 millions illegals and I m pretty sure more than 50 millions without healthcare insurance, and with Trump, how could US know about their own truth? I think this virus is real mirror of what they are. Of course, we all know China lie to try to protect their already before virus falling economy and don't respect human rights, but Switzerland also don't respect.
When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.
I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.
Salaam Master Monger.
I see you are a fan of the Philippines. So am I (well, used to be).
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2463542]
The top billionaires in the US made almost a $1 Trillion dollars from the stock market after the panicked US middle classed population sold their plummeting stocks during the beginning of Covid-19 in the US. A few days later when the billionaires realized covid-19 was a big scam they bought the middle class' stock and made almost a $1 Trillion among them in total when the stock quickly recovered.
[/QUOTE]You make some good points. Another interesting thing: if you look at the Zoom stock chart, you see it first started really jumping at the beginning of February. Clearly there were people that knew what was going to was going to happen long before the public was alerted in the media (early March). I also happen to know that many companies were on a quiet hiring freeze in February despite high stocks and a seemingly booming economy. Yeah, they knew.
For history buffs, there were also some very weird stock movements before the 9/11 attacks: [URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/europe/09/24/gen.europe.shortselling/index.html[/URL].
As usual, when these disasters occur it is difficult for us regular grunts to know how much was conspiracy and how much opportunism. The media is definitely underreporting. Only now and again do you get a good journalist like Matt Taibbi who blows the lid off things like the 2008 super-scam.
One thing that is clear though is that there are powerful forces who are using the pandemic to push agendas which have little to do with our health. For example, making small businesses bankrupt via lockdown. Pushing down wages in larger companies using the atmosphere of generalized fear. And phone tracing and requiring IDs in sex clubs. What a great blackmailing database could be compiled with that! Edward Snowden is a great resource to learn about these dangers:
[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/edward-snowden-coronavirus-surveillance-new-powers-2020-3[/URL]
[QUOTE=MrHo;2463664]When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.
I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.[/QUOTE]I will definitely take a flu shot this year (I don't always get one every year), but I won't rush out and take a new COVID-19 vaccine. I'm concerned about how fast such a vaccine might come to market, glossing past standard safety and efficacy trials. I'll let somebody else take such a vaccine first and see what happens. In the meantime, I'll continue to be cautious otherwise by avoiding large gatherings, social distancing, wearing a mask, etc. I wish this thing would just vanish though! That's one thing I do agree with Trump on. I mean, I want some pretty girl butt hole!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2463664]When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.
I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.[/QUOTE]I won't take rushing vaccine which may be dangerous or with some problems for health. I always try to avoid medicines, I prefer to train my body to fight, trusting my health, but I don't drink, I don't smoke, I can claim to be fit and sporty as say girls who don t believe my age when touching firm belly, ass.
Covid-19, the new pet project for conspiracy theories that for whatever reason thrive on monger boards. All I can figure is that a lot of guys that fall for that stuff also like to pay for sex. But stay tuned for your next episode of Coast to Coast AM, as there's only so many runs you can take at Area 51, Bigfoot, and alien abductions before late night listeners start itching for new material. And course also add the 911 "inside job" conspiracy so alluded to here. It's long been refuted.
[URL]https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a6384/debunking-911-myths-world-trade-center/[/URL]
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2463542]Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.
The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, about all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19.
The University of Alaska the 26th top rated university in the USA released a report on March 25th 2020 explicitly proving the US government's report "that took 7 years" about how building 7 of the World Trade Center collapsed was completely false. That means the US government lied about how the buildings came down on 9/11 2001 and the only way it could have happened was a controlled demolition. Building 7 was the home to CIA black ops and the Secret Service. Nobody heard about this news because COVID-19 miraculously went from 15 cases on February 28 to 70,000 cases by March 25th inundating the media with COVID-19 news.
Just in case a news story that you can verify from a major university doesn't convince you about the government's involvement in 9/11 here are some other facts.
The owner of the World Trade Centers took out an insurance policy for 3. 5 billion dollars covering "terrorist attacks" just a few months before the attacks.
Of the 84 videos capturing the attack on the pentagon on 9/11 only 4 have been released to the public because those 4 don't show the plane. Was there a plane?.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MrHo;2463664]When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.
I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.[/QUOTE]I will not take it immediately.
I will wait 6 months to see if there are any side effects, after that I will re -consider according to the covid cases.
[QUOTE=TeaInTheSun;2463618]Hey there! Obviously we have to live with this member of the corona's family as we have lived with his other brothers, like mers or sars. Everything seems to indicate that this virus could be weakening in Europe and other places and we may not have such an aggressive second wave next fall or winter. Additionally, we will have a vaccine, from Oxford, that seems effective and will give confidence, especially when we travel. Sure, this is an optimistic view. I prefer to wait until the end of the year to make travel plans, being September as key month to know if our plans are moving well or if we have to continue postponing them for a while.[/QUOTE]The Oxford vaccine is among thr vaccines targetting a part of the virus that makes it also target human cells so that we get a whopping 79% chance of bad life long side effects! Enjoy those if you want, I will not!
- There are thousands of mutations of Covid-19 already, and most are probably less deadly than what they had in Italy at first, but most likely, most probably, most of these mutations still have the Ace2 receptor, and also the FURIN cleavage. Thus causing a high, or I might say, near perfect transmittance rate between humans. Tailor made in a petri dish to do such a thing. And that is where they differ from SARS or MERS. Not that I am ruling out SARS or MERS also being results of petri dish mutations, but they did not have the FURIN cleavage. Which is the de facto proof any sane person, or judge should look at. But imagine if the rest of the Covid-19 virus also mutates into something as deadly as MERS. 30-35% Then what?
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2463822]Covid-19, the new pet project for conspiracy theories that for whatever reason thrive on monger boards. All I can figure is that a lot of guys that fall for that stuff also like to pay for sex.[/QUOTE]There are only three explanations for guys like you, you either work for someone benefiting from COVID-19, or you are benefiting from it or you have been sufficiently brainwashed.
I stated "facts" not theories, if you can disprove the facts I presented the US government will probably give you a lot of money and you will be their newest spin doctor. Until you can disprove the facts I presented your argument involves using the trigger word "conspiracy theory". This word triggers an immediate response to not believe anything said after it, this is brainwashing and if you don't believe me, look it up.
Let me give you an example, if there was factual evidence against you in a court case and you either lied or refused to explain this evidence you would be convicted no matter how many times you told the judge and jury it is all just a conspiracy.
In what logical world does a society ignore facts when presented with the words "conspiracy theory"? The only society that would do such a foolish thing is a society that has already been brainwashed.
Please rely on facts and figures that are current and don't reference things from the past that have now been clearly disproven. You can also take your information and sue the University of Alaska in court if you can prove they are wrong. Good Luck! Be smart and do more research about the world.
Oh, one last thing, guys who pay for sex are the most intelligent people in the world, we get all the enjoyment with none of the headaches.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2463510]I previously talked about how South Korea and Switzerland had handled the pandemic comparatively well. But I would also like to salute Taiwan. They always had strained relations with China, so they did not believe the lies coming out at the beginning of the year, and took swift action. The result?
Total deaths: 7.
Active cases: 4.
Recoveries: 438.
Also a shout-out to Sweden, which received harsh criticism for not implementing a lockdown. Yesterday, it recorded zero deaths from COVID-19 on that day. The US had 671.[/QUOTE]At risk of destroying your view of the world. Sweden does not report Corona number on weekends. Maybe this accounts for "a day without a single death". Otherwise Sweden is now the worst hit country in Europe per capita death rate).
I remember very well the Hong Kong flu which killed over 1 million people between 1968 and 1970. During that period there were no travel restrictions, quarantines or closures. As a matter of fact the world's largest open air concert, Woodstock, took place in 1969. I doubt very much that a vaccine will be developed for covid 19. No vaccine has ever been developed for a corona virus of which we have had many over the past few decades. These viruses last for two or three years.
When covid-19 first became notorious in March and April people were scared as it was new and reactions were frantic. Over time people will become more accustomed to it, adjust and accept it and will be less concerned even though they will take necessary precautions. I think that by the second half of 2021 things will be back to normal and we will be enjoying our favorite FKKs like we were in 2019.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2463956]I remember very well the Hong Kong flu which killed over 1 million people between 1968 and 1970. During that period there were no travel restrictions, quarantines or closures. As a matter of fact the world's largest open air concert, Woodstock, took place in 1969. I doubt very much that a vaccine will be developed for covid 19. No vaccine has ever been developed for a corona virus of which we have had many over the past few decades. These viruses last for two or three years.
When covid-19 first became notorious in March and April people were scared as it was new and reactions were frantic. Over time people will become more accustomed to it, adjust and accept it and will be less concerned even though they will take necessary precautions. I think that by the second half of 2021 things will be back to normal and we will be enjoying our favorite FKKs like we were in 2019.[/QUOTE]Already more than 500 000 deaths, US are more than 130 000 and can't really know about without healthcare insurance and illegals, and not finished yet. Germany, UK, Portugal, Spain and Italy, have to confine again. Brazil is in trouble, we can't trust China. Unfortunately, not finished yet and wait and see in Autumn or Winter.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2463956]I doubt very much that a vaccine will be developed for covid 19. No vaccine has ever been developed for a corona virus of which we have had many over the past few decades.[/QUOTE]That is very negative, there are currently 140 vaccines in development for Wuhan Flu so there is a good chance that one might work, so far there has been good early results coming out of the trials of the first two to have reached phase three testing. This is a virus that has brought the world to a halt, no wonder billions of dollars are being spent to find a solution. Vaccine development normally takes decades as it's a slow and costly process but this time great efforts are being made to get something quickly.
[QUOTE=Mtraveller;2463943]At risk of destroying your view of the world. Sweden does not report Corona number on weekends. Maybe this accounts for "a day without a single death". Otherwise Sweden is now the worst hit country in Europe per capita death rate).[/QUOTE]Belgium, UK, spain and Italy are still higher in the death / capita than Sweden.
Sweden, and other countries, reports deaths weekdays, up to a week delayed, so comparing one single day is no reliable method.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2463710]In the meantime, I'll continue to be cautious otherwise by avoiding large gatherings, social distancing, wearing a mask, etc. I wish this thing would just vanish though! That's one thing I do agree with Trump on. I mean, I want some pretty girl butt hole![/QUOTE]Does this mean that you have not mongered since lockdown? Not even locally? Majority of your monger-brethren on ISG believe the coronavirus is overblown or the risk-reward ratio is acceptable to them given the low death rate.
Amongst European-based mongers I have spoken with, there exist three categories: (1) zero mongering since lockdown, (2) mongering but only private meetups at hotels, (3) already back in the clubs. The second category is of particular interest, because some men are seeing ex-FKK WGs as incall and outcall at a starting price of 150 EUR per hour. If / when the German clubs reopen and those same WGs return to the clubs, will the men that saw them outside the club revert to 100 EUR per hour pricing?
This site says something different.
[URL]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/[/URL]#countries.
[QUOTE=BlueSwede;2464003]Belgium, UK, spain and Italy are still higher in the death / capita than Sweden.
Sweden, and other countries, reports deaths weekdays, up to a week delayed, so comparing one single day is no reliable method.[/QUOTE]
Please don't consider my previous message.
I've read data wrongly.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2463956]I remember very well the Hong Kong flu which killed over 1 million people between 1968 and 1970. During that period there were no travel restrictions, quarantines or closures. As a matter of fact the world's largest open air concert, Woodstock, took place in 1969. I doubt very much that a vaccine will be developed for covid 19. No vaccine has ever been developed for a corona virus of which we have had many over the past few decades. [/QUOTE]They managed to develop the vaccine for SARS coronavirus almost 20 years ago, but the virus disappeared shortly before it went to market.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2463956]I remember very well the Hong Kong flu which killed over 1 million people between 1968 and 1970. During that period there were no travel restrictions, quarantines or closures. As a matter of fact the world's largest open air concert, Woodstock, took place in 1969.[/QUOTE]According to this article, public health authorities took a more casual approach to the 1968 flu.
[QUOTE]He reasoned that 'death was a bigger and more accepted part of daily American life' in the 1960s. WWII and the Korean War wasn't too far gone in the rear view mirror before America found themselves again involved in another deadly conflict in Vietnam. Polio haunted people until a vaccine was developed in the mid-1950s, and in 1957 the world was plagued by another pandemic, the H2N2 'Asian Flu' which killed 1 million people globally.
[/QUOTE]Also CV-19 is more deadly than the Hong Kong flu:
[QUOTE]Dr. David Morens, a senior adviser at the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases described the H3N2 pandemic as 'wimpy' to Snopes.com. 'Its not comparable in a lot of ways but particularly in its mortality. Its also not comparable in the effects of what would happen if you just let it go.'
'Coronavirus and the H3N2 flu are absolutely not interchangeable' said Dr. Monto. 'Its like comparing apples and oranges.' Monto explains that even though the H3N2 virus was highly contagious, some of the population had been bolstered by residual immunity that was leftover from the from the previous H2N2 pandemic in 1957.
Furthermore, a vaccine for a Hong Kong flu was developed right away even though it took a while to get it mass produced and distributed. 'The variable in this pandemic is that we don't have a vaccine yet. We're making it from scratch, we have no experience with a coronavirus,' explained Dr. Monto to DailyMail.com.
[/QUOTE]As you said, there were no lockdowns for the Hong Kong flu and 1 M died. Perhaps had there been global lockdown only 100 K would have died. With social distancing and global lockdown, CV-19 death count will most certainly exceed 1 M. If zero social distancing and no lockdown, who knows how high that figure might be. So we are not able to make an apples to apples comparison, because the politicians in 1968 and 2020 took drastically different approaches.
[QUOTE=SeaShark;2464063]Please don't consider my previous message.
I've read data wrongly.[/QUOTE]You sure have. But, it really doesn't matter if Sweden is on place 5, 7 or 1, the situation has been severe here, no doubt about that.
It will be very interesting to hear the aftermath for sure!
I think I will wait a bit too. I do not drink or smoke cigarette, but there are many reliable report that one drink of alcohol per day is actually really good for your longevity and arteries.
[QUOTE=Downandup;2463983]That is very negative, there are currently 140 vaccines in development for Wuhan Flu so there is a good chance that one might work, so far there has been good early results coming out of the trials of the first two to have reached phase three testing. This is a virus that has brought the world to a halt, no wonder billions of dollars are being spent to find a solution. Vaccine development normally takes decades as it's a slow and costly process but this time great efforts are being made to get something quickly.[/QUOTE]Making a vaccine that work is not the hard part. The hard part is making a vaccine that both works, and has 0 bad side effects. An impossibility in our case here.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464074]According to this article, public health authorities took a more casual approach to the 1968 flu.
Also CV-19 is more deadly than the Hong Kong flu:
As you said, there were no lockdowns for the Hong Kong flu and 1 M died. Perhaps had there been global lockdown only 100 K would have died. With social distancing and global lockdown, CV-19 death count will most certainly exceed 1 M. If zero social distancing and no lockdown, who knows how high that figure might be. So we are not able to make an apples to apples comparison, because the politicians in 1968 and 2020 took drastically different approaches.[/QUOTE]COVID-19 has most certainly both exceeded 1 and 2 million deaths by now. Easy calculations will land you at those numbers. And that is a low estimate. As many as 4-5 million might have already died.
Take Africa for example, the health system there is not functional, but among the 0.01 % that gets tested, there are still tens of thousands, or hundred thousand infected.
India has a semi functional health system. Maybe they catch 3-4% of everyone. Certainly less than 5%.
We can also safely say China is lying about the numbers there. Just taking death urns at the morgues, and then multiplying it up. The Hong Kong scientist had calculated 1.3 million in Hubei province alot had gotten the virus. And comparing that to the Wuhan morgue urns at the start of the pandemic, we can safely say about 50 000 has died in Wuhan, and 60-100 000 in all of Hubei. And that is just one vjinese province. Although most likely the worst hit by far.
Then you have the slums in Bangladesh where it spreads like wildfire. The favelas in Brazil where hardly any medical personell enters and people die at home.
Vietnam has reported 0 deaths. Yet I personally know one Vietnamese in Ho Chi Minh City who claims his friends dad died from it.
Etc etc etc.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2464172]COVID-19 has most certainly both exceeded 1 and 2 million deaths by now. Easy calculations will land you at those numbers. And that is a low estimate. As many as 4-5 million might have already died.[/QUOTE]COVID-19 gives governments power and money, the rich and powerful don't care about COVID-19 either because no matter what you need to pay rent and eat. Most people agree they are overestimating the numbers. The reason being a person who tested positive for COVID-19 but dies from pneumonia is still counted as a COVID-19 death.
Here are the numbers:
Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.
The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, as pertaining to all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19. If you call their 800 number they will insist on you listening to the disclaimer before they tell you any numbers.
COVID-19 numbers are much lower than the normal numbers for influenza and pneumonia. Covid-19 "supposedly has caused 500,000 deaths worldwide in the last 7 months but 99.5% of the victims have been old or have underlying health conditions while influenza and pneumonia cause about 8,000,000 deaths a year and about 30% of the people who die are young and healthy!
COVID-19 primarily affects those aged 60 and above or those who have underlying health issues.
[URL]https://covid19info.live/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/influenza-pneumonia/by-country/[/URL]
Some European mongers have told me "I saved so much money from not mongering during the lockdown, so overspending a little as the clubs and economy opens back up is no big deal". The European employment system subsidized 40 million EU citizens, many receiving 60-90 percent of their pay for sitting at home and doing nothing or barely working, for three months. Despite the higher levels of taxation, is such a system designed to handle that many people claiming unemployment subsidies at the same time and for such a long duration? What happens if a second wave results in a second lockdown? I could be just pessimistic, but people are already declaring victory on this, when it might not be over.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464074]As you said, there were no lockdowns for the Hong Kong flu and 1 M died. Perhaps had there been global lockdown only 100 K would have died. With social distancing and global lockdown, CV-19 death count will most certainly exceed 1 M. If zero social distancing and no lockdown, who knows how high that figure might be. So we are not able to make an apples to apples comparison, because the politicians in 1968 and 2020 took drastically different approaches.[/QUOTE]The world population is 7.7 billion people so of course almost 60 million people die every year, that is more than 160,000 a day. We should not alter our lives to save. 01% of the population especially when concerning COVID-19 which almost exclusively only affects elderly and people who have underlying health problems, they could easily die for numerous reasons. Telling the elderly and unhealthy people to be precautions is OK, maybe checking the health on a daily basis of anyone coming in contact with the elderly and unhealthy population is also a good idea.
Anything else is just not logical. The whole world is so afraid of death that logic goes out the window!
This needs to end, I thought for sure the UV-see radiation caused by the sun over the summer would snuff it out just like it does every year, but no they keep it going and now I am angry! You should be too! Our rights are being infringed upon, if you are scared you can stay home!
[QUOTE=Downandup;2463983]That is very negative, there are currently 140 vaccines in development for Wuhan Flu so there is a good chance that one might work, so far there has been good early results coming out of the trials of the first two to have reached phase three testing. This is a virus that has brought the world to a halt, no wonder billions of dollars are being spent to find a solution. Vaccine development normally takes decades as it's a slow and costly process but this time great efforts are being made to get something quickly.[/QUOTE]It is not negative, a little pessimistic perhaps but pessimism based on analysis of facts. An example of negativity is if someone says that he does not want a vaccine to be developed.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464034]Does this mean that you have not mongered since lockdown? Not even locally? Majority of your monger-brethren on ISG believe the coronavirus is overblown or the risk-reward ratio is acceptable to them given the low death rate.
Amongst European-based mongers I have spoken with, there exist three categories: (1) zero mongering since lockdown, (2) mongering but only private meetups at hotels, (3) already back in the clubs. The second category is of particular interest, because some men are seeing ex-FKK WGs as incall and outcall at a starting price of 150 EUR per hour. If / when the German clubs reopen and those same WGs return to the clubs, will the men that saw them outside the club revert to 100 EUR per hour pricing?[/QUOTE]That is correct. I have not mongered since lockdown. In fact, I have not mongered since before lockdown. I monger exclusively abroad, and since I have not been able to travel abroad, no mongering for me can be had. The thing is, and as I have noted before, I decided in early 2019 that I wanted to take 2020 off. After a decade and a half of steady mongering, I felt like I needed to take a break. So, I guess I could not have chosen a better year to do that. It's just that if you can have it but decide you don't want it, that's one thing. But when all of a sudden you can't have it even if you wanted it, well then psychologically that's another thing LOL!
Your comment about pricing is quite interesting and worrying. I don't know about those guys who have been paying 150 per hour, but I intend to go back to pre-lockdown prices. That said, what if the clubs that survive this believe they need to raise prices in order to remain sustainable as going concerns? Then what? I mean I was already paying in the neighborhood of 300 euros per hour with anal and BBBJ / CIM included in that. Go above that, and I feel that it's just greed and trying to extract too much from a monger. Get too greedy, and some will begin to balk. At the same time, I fear that so many guys are so "thirsty" for some FKK pussy that they would cave and pay an inflated price just to get back into the clubs.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464283]Some European mongers have told me "I saved so much money from not mongering during the lockdown, so overspending a little as the clubs and economy opens back up is no big deal". The European employment system subsidized 40 million EU citizens, many receiving 60-90 percent of their pay for sitting at home and doing nothing or barely working, for three months. Despite the higher levels of taxation, is such a system designed to handle that many people claiming unemployment subsidies at the same time and for such a long duration? What happens if a second wave results in a second lockdown? I could be just pessimistic, but people are already declaring victory on this, when it might not be over.[/QUOTE]My employment or pay were not impacted by the pandemic / lock down. This was generally true for many white collar employees in the US. As such, no change in the income levels. But for me personally, mongering spend in total has never been more than a small fraction of net worth even if I aggregated my cumulative mongering spend in my life. I am generally quite careful how much I spend. Mongering or otherwise. So, the lack of spend on mongering does not make any difference to my well being one way or other. What did make a massive difference was the gyration in the stock market and what I did with regards to my portfolio allocations in response to those changes. I will not be able to disclose those changes for privacy reasons. For example: If I had sold my stocks in mid February and stayed in cash, I would be roughly where I was earlier in the year (plus some amount of accumulated salary minus living expenses). If I had sold at the bottom in March, I would be down substantially and licking my wounds. If I had not sold any and in addition invested any surplus cash into the stocks at the bottom of the market in March, I would be strutting around because my net worth would be at all time highs. Again, which of these, or a combination of these happened to me is something I will not disclose but in general those decisions make a far more meaningful impact on my life than any putative changes in salary and lack of mongering spend. Speaking of which, I have been avoiding even my sugar babes locally. It does not make sense to me to avoid clubs but see tutes / escorts / sugar babes during this period. You always run the chance of catching the virus in each encounter, and it can be mighty unpleasant from multiple angles, not the least of which is that I am also married and have other considerations. SO there.
As for the spending by various governments. None have been as profligate as US. We are lucky that dollar is so strong. No other country can do a stimulus this massive and get away with minimal impact on currency. But now, our debt is astronomically high. Same / similar situation in multiple countries around the world, more or less. If ever interest rates normalize to historical levels, these governments would be needing to keep allocating a huge amount of annual budget to interest payments alone. So, they are in a bind. They have to make their central banks less independent, and keep purchasing own debt through central banks just to keep going. It is very much akin to digging deeper when you are in a hole and trying to get out. Till now, American employees collectively have bene just fine due to the massive stimulus you mentioned. Fed figures show the collective paycheck (including salaries and Federal transfer payments) for the country is higher now than it was pre pandemic, which is very weird. But this is set to run out in a few weeks unless they do a second round of stimulus. Will they do it? Does the government have the money? They did not really have any money for the first round either. Of course, they can always print more dollars. As I said, we are lucky because US is able to print money out of thin air and not suffer the consequences (for now).
I'm not sure that you understand the concept of "cause of death. " When someone has HIV, the virus does not kill them per se but rather leads to a compromised immune system where some other system becomes compromised due to a secondary infection. When someone has the flu, the virus does not kill them but rather leads to a systemic response or secondary infection. Cause of death would eventually be some sort of respiratory failure. Same with COVID 19. Saying that people aren't dying of COVID but rather pneumonia shows a lack of understanding of how your body and disease works. Understanding what pneumonia is and the fact that it is a reactive process caused by viruses, bacteria, or other microbes would be a good start to educating yourself before making your assertions.
Secondly, even if death is not the end result, prolonged-debilitating illness in an otherwise healthy young adult is often the case with covid19. The economic cost of millions of otherwise healthy, young adults being out of the workforce due to a 2-3 week illness will in itself be rather costly.
It's not as simple a matter as you make it out to be.
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2464275]COVID-19 gives governments power and money, the rich and powerful don't care about COVID-19 either because no matter what you need to pay rent and eat. Most people agree they are overestimating the numbers. The reason being a person who tested positive for COVID-19 but dies from pneumonia is still counted as a COVID-19 death.
Here are the numbers:
Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia.
The CDC has a disclaimer stating, there is no way they can actually know the real numbers, as pertaining to all the information they provide about the cases and deaths "allegedly" concerning Covid-19. If you call their 800 number they will insist on you listening to the disclaimer before they tell you any numbers.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2464275]Most people who are "reported" to have Covid-19 actually die of Pneumonia. [/QUOTE]That's because Covid-19 causes pneumonia in serious cases. This is a serious disease and you should not underestimate it. Unless you want to be this guy: [URL]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-denier-die-from-covid/[/URL].
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2464332]What did make a massive difference was the gyration in the stock market and what I did with regards to my portfolio allocations in response to those changes. I will not be able to disclose those changes for privacy reasons. For example: If I had sold my stocks in mid February and stayed in cash, I would be roughly where I was earlier in the year (plus some amount of accumulated salary minus living expenses). If I had sold at the bottom in March, I would be down substantially and licking my wounds. If I had not sold any and in addition invested any surplus cash into the stocks at the bottom of the market in March, I would be strutting around because my net worth would be at all time highs. Again, which of these, or a combination of these happened to me is something I will not disclose but in general those decisions make a far more meaningful impact on my life than any putative changes in salary and lack of mongering spend.[/QUOTE]I don't know why you feel you can't discuss what you did. Well when I think about it, maybe I can think of some reasons. Anyway, your choice. I ramped up and substantially increased my investments in stocks when the market bottomed out, and now I have more money than I have ever had in my entire life. But I'm not strutting around though. It's more like wiping my brow with a "whew"! Because in the beginning I lost a lot of money. But I didn't panic and stuck with basic principles. Buy low! That's what I did (a lot), and I was handsomely rewarded for it. Now I'm totally bearish as there is simply just too much uncertainty in the world today. I'm more than happy for the rest of this year with the big gains I have already realized in 2020. I have done quite well in very scary times. Again, I'm not strutting. It's more like thanking my lucky stars!
Rarely do I read something on this forum which I disagree on nearly 100%, but MasterMonger managed that feat. Congratulations. I won't bother to respond.
But with such 'ideas' floating around in USA, I now totally understand how and why covid-19 spreads so much faster in USA than it does in Europe!
[QUOTE=MrHo;2463664]When the vaccines get developed, will you guys take the vaccines? If not, why not.
I am in bit of dilemma because I am concerned for its safety and I feel covid 19 will calm down within next one year.[/QUOTE]I am planning punting again as soon as doable. So, to me I will take COVID-19 jab as soon as it is available. I will ensure that I will not infect other people. Also, I could do punting without being worried to be infected by other people.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2464172]COVID-19 has most certainly both exceeded 1 and 2 million deaths by now. Easy calculations will land you at those numbers. And that is a low estimate. As many as 4-5 million might have already died.
Take Africa for example, the health system there is not functional, but among the 0.01 % that gets tested, there are still tens of thousands, or hundred thousand infected.
India has a semi functional health system. Maybe they catch 3-4% of everyone. Certainly less than 5%.
We can also safely say China is lying about the numbers there. Just taking death urns at the morgues, and then multiplying it up. The Hong Kong scientist had calculated 1.3 million in Hubei province alot had gotten the virus. And comparing that to the Wuhan morgue urns at the start of the pandemic, we can safely say about 50 000 has died in Wuhan, and 60-100 000 in all of Hubei. And that is just one vjinese province. Although most likely the worst hit by far..[/QUOTE]I agree death counts are understated and can believe 1 to 2 mil. Not sure if 4 mil is believable. That implies 7 additional deaths for every reported death. There have been anecdotal reports of overflowing funeral houses etc here and there in Italy, in NYC, Brazil most certainly, Russia a little bit and of late in Mumbai and Delhi to some extent. Only in Brazil, Ecuador and LatAm one got the suspicion that death counts are perhaps severely understated and even there, not sure it was by 8 x.
But I am fully in agreement that infection counts are hugely understated in many developing countries that you included in your comment.
I think the demographic in these countries tends to be young and perhaps there may be other immunity benefits at work that we don't understand yet. Either way, I think infections are probably understated by orders of magnitude in many countries and death count by some amount.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2464337]Secondly, even if death is not the end result, prolonged-debilitating illness in an otherwise healthy young adult is often the case with covid19. The economic cost of millions of otherwise healthy, young adults being out of the workforce due to a 2-3 week illness will in itself be rather costly.[/QUOTE]That is not true sir, COVID-19 affecting young or healthy people is an anomaly and it could just be they were not as healthy as they thought. Also, any virus or disease that attacks ACE2 receptors can cause organ damage to anyone with weak or compromised immune systems or a weak or damaged organ that is not a special feature of COVID-19. Go do some research and you will learn that is true.
Of course I understand that according to their logic that if COVID-19 weakened the immune system to a point that it could not handle the constant invasion of billions of germs we face every second of our lives and they contracted pneumonia as a result, then COVID-19 is still considered the root cause or a multiple cause of death.
Let me explain why that is bad! You could cut your finger and the infection it causes could easily lower your immune system to a point where pneumonia could take hold, although trauma should be reported the root cause in this sometimes it is still reported as pneumonia. Usually as stated in any document written about COVID-19 you need to already have a weak immune system or an underlying problem before anything else can happen because in most cases your immune system is easily able to wipe out COVID-19. Breathing with a Paper cloth mask on greatly increases your chance of developing pneumonia and brain deficiencies because you are rebreathing CO2 and not getting enough clean oxygen to kill the germs in your lungs or feed your brain fresh oxygen so it can produce ozone in the brain to heal itself. Oxygen is the most miraculous element on the planet and oxygen combined with the right green leafy vegetables and 120 minutes of exercise a week especially jumping on a trampoline for 15 minutes a day can make your immune system super human and the trampoline will activate your lymphatic system. For people who do this everyday, even the once dreaded HIV is not really a problem unless you put too much bad stuff in your body like Sugar, Drugs, Alcohol, and tobacco.
Now if you are reporting pneumonia and influenza deaths as COVID-19 deaths and we look at the numbers last year and 60,000 died from influenza and 40,000 died from pneumonia and this year pneumonia and influenza deaths are way down then how can we determine the actual threat caused by COVID-19. Now if you read some of the other posts I have posted you would know that almost 80% of the deaths reported in New York State in the last 120 days have been COVID-19 related. Also the Doctors are now being allowed to fill out the death certificates completely and sign them themselves. We know hospitals get paid for each reported case, each respirator case, and each death. New York has 32,000 COVID-19 deaths which is equal to 40 of the other 49 states combined. New York only has 6% of the US population but they have 24% of the deaths and the other 52% of total deaths is among only 9 states The final 24% is spread among 40 states. Many states went out of lockdown months ago.
So, unless you can find something that factually says Covid-19 "will" "not can or could" cause long term organ damage then there is no threat from COVID-19 to people with strong immune systems. If you are old are weak you can take precautions but I recommend a spit guard or an actually non-cloth mask that allows you to breath fresh oxygen.
Please do research! We need to draw a line in the sand and make our governments aware this will not be tolerated. If not, what is coming in the future will be much worse. The minute we accept quarantining and marshal law as the norm we have already become slaves. Now, if in the future a virus comes along and kills more than 1% of the world population or 78,000,000 people then we can talk about possible quarantines as long as every victim's name is made public for verification. 132,000 people supposedly dead in America but I don't know one and I don't know anybody who knows one.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2464371]Rarely do I read something on this forum which I disagree on nearly 100%, but MasterMonger managed that feat. Congratulations. I won't bother to respond.
But with such 'ideas' floating around in USA, I now totally understand how and why covid-19 spreads so much faster in USA than it does in Europe![/QUOTE]That is so funny, you don't agree with facts. You can look up those facts, most of them came straight from the CDC website. It is funny how they tell you one thing in the title and then tell you whole truth when you read the whole story. Math is your friend, the virus is only spreading in the states the governor's want it to spread in, considering 76% of all the deaths are only in 10 states. Instead of believing what you think you know spend some time to verify it. If any one can prove my facts wrong, I would be delighted!
Have a wonderful day!
[QUOTE=TheCane;2464331]
I decided in early 2019 that I wanted to take 2020 off. After a decade and a half of steady mongering, I felt like I needed to take a break. So, I guess I could not have chosen a better year to do that. It's just that if you can have it but decide you don't want it, that's one thing. But when all of a sudden you can't have it even if you wanted it, well then psychologically that's another thing LOL!
.[/QUOTE]I'm on the same boat, last trip 5 days at Sharks was on late February 2020 , I made my mind that next visit will be October / November 2020.
But all of sudden i feel now that I want to go As soon as possible, and I guess its the idea of ((deciding not to go VS can't go even if you want)) is the major motive for my feelings.
Hope this pandemic will END soon, with a vaccine hopefully.
[QUOTE=Adindas;2464374]I am planning punting again as soon as doable. So, to me I will take COVID-19 jab as soon as it is available. I will ensure that I will not infect other people. Also, I could do punting without being worried to be infected by other people.[/QUOTE]I went to Globe in Jan and Feb this year, so I may wait until next year when corona is more calm? I have done it this year, so why for me to risk my lung etc.
I think it is more travelling that is dangerous than actual mongering, train, airplane, airport, hotel restaurants, restaurants etc.
The truth is, we all have to live with covid 19 because we cannot stop economy anymore or people will die more with other causes.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2464338]That's because Covid-19 causes pneumonia in serious cases. This is a serious disease and you should not underestimate it. Unless you want to be this guy: [URL]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-denier-die-from-covid/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Yes covid attack lungs for most. Only few died from kind of organism infection from reaction to virus.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2464371]Rarely do I read something on this forum which I disagree on nearly 100%, but MasterMonger managed that feat. Congratulations. I won't bother to respond.
But with such 'ideas' floating around in USA, I now totally understand how and why covid-19 spreads so much faster in USA than it does in Europe![/QUOTE]Not only for record for deaths, but also since 4 months soon and still spreading and even under high heat in southern states, but did You hear them claiming they are stronger than virus, when they have so many obese, diabetic and poor which is kind of disease versus this virus, even poor Africa which have ancestors manage much better. I think this virus show what they are, with a really crazy Trump which give a really bad image. Of course, I follow You about China which is a danger for our health safety for me and when I see about Hong Kong. I know G7 countries are in own trouble, but I m surprised no reaction versus China. I m also a bit surprised about Germany being in trouble after confined, because when I stopped on first time to take gas on my way to Zurich, woman on desk, even with glass on desk, told me: German law is to put on mask in shops, now I put, I see everybody putting on when entering, nevertheless even with brothels still closed, they have some places in trouble. On Saturday morning, returning from Switzerland, it was real German invasion in France, for their holidays, looking for our sun, good point for our tourism, when we don t manage so bad to control our R0 after end of confined, except in Guyane but close to Brazil. Official figures at the moment tell about 500 000 deaths, for sure we know China with less than 5000 are far below truth, when US claim they have less for real than their own figures, but they don t know much for around 50 millions people living in their country. Maybe truth is more around close to 1 million and not finished when we see Brazil, India, still US after 4 months, Pekin Beijing.
Anyone notice that there has been a huge spike in cases in Romania throughout June? Their numbers have always been low but the trend is concerning since they're starting to come back to work.
I live in Belgium and I'm frequently in Germany for business, when I used to combine business with pleasure and make a quick visit of an FKK. Trough Asian colleagues, I found out soon about the "Wuhan virus" (as it was known then) and in January I made my last visit to Sharks.
Every time since reopening the border I'm in Germany, I get nostalgic and I get that weird, lonely and horny feeling in my stomach when I get see "Darmstadt" on the roadsigns in the recent months, and I remember the good times I had there. I'm sort of curious to make a small trip to check it out, but I know I can also save myself the fuel, because deep inside I know it will be closed and empty.
Judging from the Germans I talk to, many expect a second wave in the Autumn, and I doubt the clubs will be able to open this year. According to my German colleagues, although Germany is slowly opening up, many restrictions are still in effect, such as registering when visiting a gym (physical activity, like sex) and 1,5 m distancing. Some of my German colleagues practice judo / boxing and those classes are still cancelled, or are limited to only body weight exercises like push ups, squats, burpees etc, all 3 m apart! (during sports, the minimum distance is increased to 3 m).
I also hope things will open up soon because I desperately need a sexual release, but not because of a vaccine as this will involve totalitarian measures like government tracking apps on your phone, with blackmail potential, but because people have finally come to their senses.
Yes, this is an unknown virus and yes I understand we should treated it with caution in the beginning. Nevertheless, IMHO we have to start seeing things in a realistic perspective again.
Despite all the millions of cases, none of my friends, relatives, colleagues knows anyone who has caught CV19 yet, all of us had the 'flu' during the last 6-7 months, and for the overwhelming majority the symptoms are very mild and even non-symptomatic. Some people die of the normal flu every year. Why didn't we shut down the entire world for that? Some people die of bee-stings every year, why is there no lockdown for that? People die in car crashes, so why not shut down all roads?
It's time to become realistic and start using common sense again: protect the vulnerable (old) people with weak immune systems and underlying health issues, but allow the rest of the world to live our lives without mandatory vaccines and mandatory tracking apps!
[QUOTE=Tuber19;2464423]I'm on the same boat, last trip 5 days at Sharks was on late February 2020 , I made my mind that next visit will be October / November 2020.
But all of sudden i feel now that I want to go As soon as possible, and I guess its the idea of ((deciding not to go VS can't go even if you want)) is the major motive for my feelings.
Hope this pandemic will END soon, with a vaccine hopefully.[/QUOTE]You had similar schedule to me and similar schedule on mind, but for me, I did my 2020 mongering in early Feb., so I wait until next year when corona is over. Most likely, I be in FKK next year toward the end of year, if corona is over.
I think, there is no need to risk your health to monger.
Yet for some reason, death [B]rate[/B] in the US is not even the highest. Look at those terrible health care countries that have higher death rates per population: France, Belgium, Sweden, UK, Italy, Spain, etc. They really should work on their healthcare systems.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2464477]Not only for record for deaths, but also since 4 months soon and still spreading and even under high heat in southern states, but did You hear them claiming they are stronger than virus, when they have so many obese, diabetic and poor which is kind of disease versus this virus, even poor Africa which have ancestors manage much better. I think this virus show what they are, with a really crazy Trump which give a really bad image.[/QUOTE]
Especially the mental health care, we have terrible cases of mental disorders in France. Guys with very restricted interests or repetitive behavior patterns.
[QUOTE=Adindas;2464374]I am planning punting again as soon as doable. So, to me I will take COVID-19 jab as soon as it is available. I will ensure that I will not infect other people. Also, I could do punting without being worried to be infected by other people.[/QUOTE]So you will wait until you take jab from the State before you jab girls.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2464533]Yet for some reason, death [B]rate[/B] in the US is not even the highest. Look at those terrible health care countries that have higher death rates per population: France, Belgium, Sweden, UK, Italy, Spain, etc. They really should work on their healthcare systems.[/QUOTE]Death rate high does not mean bad health care. Most of these countries have high life expectancy. There are within top 30 and better than US. So more old people more death and that messes up the overall ratio.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2464493]Anyone notice that there has been a huge spike in cases in Romania throughout June? Their numbers have always been low but the trend is concerning since they're starting to come back to work.[/QUOTE]Yes I have noticed. It's a spike in Moldavia too. Makes me more reluctant to go if the clubs open up even though not all girls have been back home. For example Ester, Denisa and Serena seems to be on a little tour round South Hessen.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2464533]Yet for some reason, death [B]rate[/B] in the US is not even the highest. Look at those terrible health care countries that have higher death rates per population: France, Belgium, Sweden, UK, Italy, Spain, etc. They really should work on their healthcare systems.[/QUOTE]That's not the correct information to estimate death rate because of Covid19. In Belgium, for example, they include as Covid19 deaths even those that are simply suspected to have been caused bby Covid19. The only way to verify the death rate due to Covid is to look at excess deaths for each country compared to the previous two years. Based on the correct data, UK has the highest death rate in the world at the moment.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2464337]Secondly, even if death is not the end result, prolonged-debilitating illness in an otherwise healthy young adult is often the case with covid19. The economic cost of millions of otherwise healthy, young adults being out of the workforce due to a 2-3 week illness will in itself be rather costly.[/QUOTE]That is not true sir, COVID-19 affecting young or healthy people is an anomaly and it could just be they were not as healthy as they thought. Also, Any virus or disease that attacks ACE2 receptors can cause organ damage to anyone with weak or compromised immune systems or a weak or damaged organ that is not a special feature of COVID-19. Go do some research and you will learn that is true.
Of course I understand that according to their logic that if COVID-19 weakened the immune system to a point that it could not handle the constant invasion of billions of germs we face every second of our lives, then COVID-19 is considered the root cause or a multiple cause of death.
Let me explain why that is bad! You could cut your finger and the infection it causes could easily lower your immune system to a point where pneumonia could take hold, although trauma should be reported the root cause in this sometimes it is still reported as pneumonia. Usually as stated in any document written about COVID-19 you need to already have a weak immune system or an underlying problem before anything else can happen because in most cases your immune system is easily able to wipe out COVID-19. Breathing with a Paper cloth mask on greatly increases your chance of developing pneumonia and brain deficiencies because you are rebreathing CO2 and not getting enough clean oxygen to kill the germs in your lungs or feed your brain fresh oxygen so it can produce ozone in the brain to heal itself. Oxygen is the most miraculous element on the planet and oxygen combined with the right green leafy vegetables and 120 minutes of exercise a week especially jumping on a trampoline for 15 minutes a day can make your immune system super human and the trampoline will activate your lymphatic system. For people who do this everyday, even the once dreaded HIV is not really a problem unless you put too much bad stuff in your body like Sugar, Drugs, Alcohol, and tobacco.
Now if you are reporting pneumonia and influenza deaths as COVID-19 deaths and we look at the numbers last year and 60,000 died from influenza and 40,000 died from pneumonia and this year pneumonia and influenza deaths are way down then how can we determine the actual threat caused by COVID-19. Now if you read some of the other posts I have posted you would know that almost 80% of the deaths reported in New York State in the last 120 days have been COVID-19 related. Also the Doctors are now being allowed to fill out the death certificates completely and sign them themselves. We know hospitals get paid for each reported case, each respirator case, and each death. New York has 32,000 COVID-19 deaths which is equal to 40 of the other 49 states combined. New York only has 6% of the US population but they have 24% of the deaths and the other 52% of total deaths is among only 9 states The final 24% is spread among 40 states. Many states went out of lockdown months ago.
So, unless you can find something that factually says Covid-19 "will" "not can or could" cause long term organ damage then there is no threat from COVID-19 to people with strong immune systems. If you are old are weak you can take precautions but I recommend a spit guard or an actually non-cloth mask that allows you to breath fresh oxygen.
Please do research! We need to draw a line in the sand and make our governments aware this will not be tolerated. If not, what is coming in the future will be much worse. The minute we accept quarantining and marshal law as the norm we have already become slaves. Now, if in the future a virus comes along and kills more than 1% of the world population or 78,000,000 people then we can talk about possible quarantines as long as every victim's name is made public for verification. 132,000 people supposedly dead in America but I don't know one and I don't know anybody who knows one.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2464331]Your comment about pricing is quite interesting and worrying. I don't know about those guys who have been paying 150 per hour, but I intend to go back to pre-lockdown prices. That said, what if the clubs that survive this believe they need to raise prices in order to remain sustainable as going concerns?[/QUOTE]Back in 2016, I knew a German WG who advertised on Kaufmich for 150 per hour. I noticed that she would work in the clubs for 100 per hour. And she jumped back and forth between the two formats before finally settling back in the clubs permanently. My guess is at the 150 per hour price point, she received much less volume, so at least on a per day basis the FKK clubs were more lucrative.
But in July 2020, I am not sure if those conditions still hold true. I suspect ex-FKK WGs can charge 150 per hour as privates and still get brisk volume, allowing them to make just as much if not more than when they worked the FKK clubs. It is currently a seller's market. There are not many cheaper alternatives. The FKK clubs where men could readily find sex for 100 EUR per hour remain closed (unless one is willing to drive to NL). Additionally, there is less supply in Frankfurt because many WGs have still not returned to DE.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2464332]Of course, they can always print more dollars. As I said, we are lucky because US is able to print money out of thin air and not suffer the consequences (for now).[/QUOTE]Okay sounds like you are saying the massive stimulus is artificially propping up the finances of the average American. What happens when they pull the plug on that? Civil unrest? If yes, that would affect the portfolios of the white collar Americans as well, right? As I said, 40 million Europeans received economic assistance, so Europeans have not suffered any consequences (so far). I am waiting for someone to chime in to reassure me otherwise.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2464346]I ramped up and substantially increased my investments in stocks when the market bottomed out, and now I have more money than I have ever had in my entire life. But I'm not strutting around though. It's more like wiping my brow with a "whew"! Because in the beginning I lost a lot of money. But I didn't panic and stuck with basic principles. Buy low! That's what I did (a lot), and I was handsomely rewarded for it. Now I'm totally bearish as there is simply just too much uncertainty in the world today. I'm more than happy for the rest of this year with the big gains I have already realized in 2020. I have done quite well in very scary times. Again, I'm not strutting. It's more like thanking my lucky stars![/QUOTE]Will you move your gains to safer investments? Or risk them getting erased in 2021? Over the past six months, every monger I know has either been relatively unscathed financially or saw their net worth increase. But regarding your point about "uncertainty in the world", I do not know if that luck continues. Like you said once before, the global economy is interconnected, if the economies of EU, USA, or China crash, they bring everyone else down with them.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2464493]Anyone notice that there has been a huge spike in cases in Romania throughout June? Their numbers have always been low but the trend is concerning since they're starting to come back to work.[/QUOTE]A large percentage of the 1500 infected meat plant workers in NRW were Romanian. Also many Romanian migrant workers are seasonal farm workers. This video shows four of them sleeping in a tiny container: [URL]https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-54033187[/URL].
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464651]A large percentage of the 1500 infected meat plant workers in NRW were Romanian. Also many Romanian migrant workers are seasonal farm workers. This video shows four of them sleeping in a tiny container: [URL]https://www.dw.com/en/germany-meat-industry-conditions/a-54033187[/URL].[/QUOTE]This is sad but the video is not opening.
[QUOTE=Ssseeking;2464560]Death rate high does not mean bad health care. Most of these countries have high life expectancy. There are within top 30 and better than US. So more old people more death and that messes up the overall ratio.[/QUOTE]It was more of a tongue in cheek retort to another post.
But anyway, Life expectancy factors in traumatic death such as motor vehicle accidents and violence. America has arguably the largest car culture and we all know about the gun culture, our traumatic deaths are much higher, bring down the average. Unfortunately, so is suicide.
COVID deaths on the other hand shows a more direct snapshot of acute to advanced emergent medical care. And in this case, US death rates are consistently better than the western European counterparts despite the high rate of comorbidities. The prevalence of the comorbidities is perhaps why our healthcare providers are doing a better job in this crisis. Public health policy is a whole other matter in which the US has failed miserably.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464649]Will you move your gains to safer investments? Or risk them getting erased in 2021? Over the past six months, every monger I know has either been relatively unscathed financially or saw their net worth increase. But regarding your point about "uncertainty in the world", I do not know if that luck continues. Like you said once before, the global economy is interconnected, if the economies of EU, USA, or China crash, they bring everyone else down with them.[/QUOTE]I have already moved into safer investments, and it's there I intend to remain until I feel comfortable with taking more risk. And what with a pandemic, an economic recession, social strife, and uncertainty around our upcoming election in November, that won't be anytime soon. We could even get hit with a devastating hurricane this year. Who knows? Not to mention what might happen in other countries that could impact the States too. No, I'm not willing to see my 2020 gains wiped out, and I will proceed with maximum caution to ensure that does not happen. And don't forget that the other shoe hasn't fallen yet with respect to the American economy. What I mean is that the government can't keep spending trillions to prop everything up. That's unsustainable.
And when the spending stops, then comes the defaults, the bankruptcies, the evictions, and failed businesses. We have yet to go through that pain yet, and believe me that in the United States it's eventually going to come. Combine all that with an expected strong return of the virus when the winter season arrives, and I don't have faith that from now into early 2021 is going to be a pretty sight to behold. Right now, I'm a "financial bear" looking for the right time to come out of hibernation and invest in reasonably riskier assets again that offer a real prospect for greater returns. One thing that could turn the tide is if a safe and effective vaccine becomes available. We shall see. In the meantime, I'm on the sidelines and out of the riskier stuff!
Too much to unpack here as it was a small novella posted to a message board. I can say that the pathophysiology here shows a rudimentary, surface level familiarity of COVID, perhaps googled, but also shows a complete lack of understanding of the disease process. It sounds akin to the statements I made as a pre-med undergraduate student. I. e. Statement about CO2 retention and cloth masks and HIV lifestyle recommendation.
I'm not sure where you got the information that young people being sick is an anomaly but that is hardly the case anymore. I suppose that may depend on your definition of young but for the purpose of this board, I don't think discussing young 20-39 year olds has much relevance. The average age in my completely full 24 bed ICU unit just dropped to under 55. The regular medical wards have seen a spike in 40 something year olds requiring less invasive respiratory therapies.
We are getting better at treating this thing so in combination with the average younger age of those infected, death rates will decline but pulmonary alveolar damage in your 30's and 40's and myocardial cell death is irreversible. Survivors will live with compromised heart function in addition to lung damage. Quality of life and life expectancy will decline. Your young people thesis does a public health disservice.
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2464640]That is not true sir, COVID-19 affecting young or healthy people is an anomaly and it could just be they were not as healthy as they thought. Also, Any virus or disease that attacks ACE2 receptors can cause organ damage to anyone with weak or compromised immune systems or a weak or damaged organ that is not a special feature of COVID-19. Go do some research and you will learn that is true.
Please do research! We need to draw a line in the sand and make our governments aware this will not be tolerated. If not, what is coming in the future will be much worse. The minute we accept quarantining and marshal law as the norm we have already become slaves. Now, if in the future a virus comes along and kills more than 1% of the world population or 78,000,000 people then we can talk about possible quarantines as long as every victim's name is made public for verification. 132,000 people supposedly dead in America but I don't know one and I don't know anybody who knows one.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=RockyV;2464628]That's not the correct information to estimate death rate because of Covid19. In Belgium, for example, they include as Covid19 deaths even those that are simply suspected to have been caused bby Covid19. The only way to verify the death rate due to Covid is to look at excess deaths for each country compared to the previous two years. Based on the correct data, UK has the highest death rate in the world at the moment.[/QUOTE]You make a good point about excess deaths and true death rates. Considering those numbers should give pause to making concrete assertions; however, the excess death rates in the US has not been higher in comparison to western european nations, although the data is incomplete. Some comparisons below, with NYC being the only comparison point, but if skewed, only favors undercounting in America.
Side note, like Belgium, US also counts non-confirmed persons of interest as covid deaths if the covid test was negative or pending but medical workup was otherwise consistent with covid disease processes.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464649]Over the past six months, every monger I know has either been relatively unscathed financially or saw their net worth increase. But regarding your point about "uncertainty in the world", I do not know if that luck continues. Like you said once before, the global economy is interconnected, if the economies of EU, USA, or China crash, they bring everyone else down with them.[/QUOTE]I suspect the answer to this depends on your industry and your investment positions as I don't think that there will be an equal crash across the board like in 2000 or 2008. If your financial livelihood depends on the financial sector, real estate, service, or other brick and mortar leisure industries, you might be in for some tough times.
STEM fields will see an accelerated boost as will any industry that has or is able to quickly develop a strong virtual presence. E-commerce, E-entertainment, E-anything has already seen a huge boost and there is no reason to think that would change, the world was already headed that way pre-covid. Healthcare and education are at their watershed points, not that education had a huge private sector market share, but there might be a market grab coming up. Somehow renewable energy has maintained momentum despite decrease demands. I suspect that they're operating out of funds from pre-covid grants and contracts.
Replay from EL: there is a alternative staying far away from all the P6, they are all manipulating us, starting from WHO, this sick is aggressive, better to limit to the minimum all the social contacts as long the things are not under serious control.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464649]Okay sounds like you are saying the massive stimulus is artificially propping up the finances of the average American. What happens when they pull the plug on that? Civil unrest? If yes, that would affect the portfolios of the white collar Americans as well, right? As I said, 40 million Europeans received economic assistance, so Europeans have not suffered any consequences (so far). I am waiting for someone to chime in to reassure me otherwise..[/QUOTE]We have to wait and see. Of course the US government can keep spending more money on stimulus until the economy mends itself. Herd immunity or a vaccine or something else. And this stimulus could be funded by Fed. The thing is that US has an independent currency; for good or bad, US dollar generally becomes stronger during times of global economic distress.
I think European countries have less fiscal flexibility because they do not have their own currency (those in Eurozone). ECB has done LTRO operations and other bond purchases in the past but in general, European countries do not want ECB to monetize individual countries debt too much. Germany or NED or Austria don't want to be responsible for the debt of Spain or Italy or Portugal. So, I think if this drags on for too long, Europe would have less flexibility to support their population with government spending I think. But in general Europe has much better control on the virus outbreak than we do and I don't think they need to support their people to the same extent we have to. We already spent several trillion dollars in the last few months. I don't think Europe spent as much money.
Normally if a country spends as much as US is, and it has an independent convertible currency, FX should be crashing by now. Dollar is not crashing because we are living in a world of beggar thy neighbor. Every government has been reckless and profligate.
Is it really a seller's market? Because so far I was not acting as a buyer. Grin - were you? - I can imagine that there are not many buyers out there for three main reasons:
A) many fear loosing their job- lots are aleady in "Kurzarbeit" - a model that allows you to stay employed, while making only 60% of the money.
B) many fear a covid-infection. We should realize that the risks are a bit unknowsn.
C) it is *illegal* in Germany right now.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464642].... It is currently a seller's market. There are not many cheaper alternatives. The FKK clubs where men could readily find sex for 100 EUR per hour remain closed (unless one is willing to drive to NL). Additionally, there is less supply in Frankfurt because many WGs have still not returned to DE.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2464836]Is it really a seller's market? Because so far I was not acting as a buyer. Grin - were you? - I can imagine that there are not many buyers out there for three main reasons:
A) many fear loosing their job- lots are aleady in "Kurzarbeit" - a model that allows you to stay employed, while making only 60% of the money.
B) many fear a covid-infection. We should realize that the risks are a bit unknowsn.
C) it is *illegal* in Germany right now.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I'd have to agree. Given the circumstances, it is most likely leaning heavily towards a buyers market right now. Hopefully that won't harm recruitment too much though.
One thing I have to add here is that even if the covid-19 virus is around, the mutations are not as bad right now. So attaining a mild version of it at the moment might even be smart long term to build up that T-cell production for your immune system. Much better to get it now than when a more dangerous version of the virus mutates, and then you don't have any form of defences in terms of T-cells.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2464891]One thing I have to add here is that even if the covid-19 virus is around, the mutations are not as bad right now. So attaining a mild version of it at the moment might even be smart long term to build up that T-cell production for your immune system. Much better to get it now than when a more dangerous version of the virus mutates, and then you don't have any form of defences in terms of T-cells.[/QUOTE]Seriously, what do you know.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464649]Over the past six months, every monger I know has either been relatively unscathed financially or saw their net worth increase. .[/QUOTE]The real question, is the monger's spending decision based on fluctuations in net worth or is it based on net income changes?
Say, if you have 5 million stashed away; whether the $5 M became $5.5 M or $4.5 M in the course of last few months (a loss or gain of $500 K, which to most people is quite substantial), the monger is still able to spend at the same level as he used to. Even if the fluctuation is larger, say a million bucks, he still has the ability to spend at the same levels as before (I. E. A few thousand dollars per trip to Germany). His networth fluctuations *may* impact him psychologically and he may be elated to depressed (or stoic, depending on his personality), but just from a pure financial angle, there is no discernible change in his ability to spend.
If the monger's networth is say, $100 K, then it is a different matter. If the amount fluctuates by the same percent as above, I. E. 10%, he could be at $90 K or $110 K, but either way it is not meaningful. Even if the fluctuation is 20% as in the example above, $80 K is not that much different from $120 K. In this situation, the spending intent could be driven much more by salary and the sustainability of salary. Even if the current job is safe till now, due to pandemic fear he may be scared that he could lose his job, that his next job may take a few months to find; uncertainty about the salary amount in future also plays a role.
These are two extreme examples, but then again they may not be. Even more extreme: what if someone had $10 M to start with? What if someone has no savings whatsoever and all his mongering spend comes out of monthly salary and if he has no job then he cannot monger?
Also, does he have other issues? People with a family could have completely different calculations (desire to leave most of networth to children, secure their long term future etc), but the guy also may have a paycheck from spouse he can count on even if loses his job. Or some men may not be currently married but still paying alimony and child support in which case they are doubly screwed. Not only there is no cushion of having a spousal paycheck, they are also on the hook to pay out money from their past savings even if they lose their own current job.
I would think most of the Americans who fly out regularly to monger in Europe (I. E. Not those who use a tute once or twice if they happen to be in Europe, but those who regularly fly to Europe mainly for the purpose of having paid sex) are generally well off. I. E. Networth exceeding at least half a mil. If someone has no savings cushion whatsoever, and still travels to Europe regularly for sex, he is spending mainly out of monthly paycheck, which seems crazy to me. He runs the risk of not having any fallback cushion if his job / comp takes a dive. Unless the man is making high six figures salary; but that begs the question why he has no savings / networth to start with?
[QUOTE=Pistons;2464891]One thing I have to add here is that even if the covid-19 virus is around, the mutations are not as bad right now. So attaining a mild version of it at the moment might even be smart long term to build up that T-cell production for your immune system. Much better to get it now than when a more dangerous version of the virus mutates, and then you don't have any form of defences in terms of T-cells.[/QUOTE]"the mutations are not as bad right now".
Are you talking specifically today, as opposed to 3 months ago? In the US, clearly fatality rates have declined but that is also because younger people are infected more these days and also some people think death tolls could spike in the next few weeks as death is a lagging indicator and we did see infections counts spike up in the last month.
Or are you saying that this in general has been a mild virus and fatality rate is less than 1% and hence we would want to get it now? In that case, do you think fatality rate goes up to 2% or 3% in future?
Many people, from Bill Gates and others, have said fatality is going to be slightly less than 1% from the very initial stages of this outbreak and so far it seems they are on the mark.
[QUOTE=Kuni042;2464836]Is it really a seller's market? Because so far I was not acting as a buyer. Grin - were you? - I can imagine that there are not many buyers out there for three main reasons:
A) many fear loosing their job- lots are aleady in "Kurzarbeit" - a model that allows you to stay employed, while making only 60% of the money.
B) many fear a covid-infection. We should realize that the risks are a bit unknowsn.
C) it is *illegal* in Germany right now.[/QUOTE]I will amend my statement, it is a sellers market for some WGs, particularly the ones who are of interest to the ISGer audience. I believe a "princess" at Sharks (someone who is in the top ten percent of earners), if she stays in the Frankfurt area while the FKK clubs remain closed, her current earnings probably exceed her old Sharks earnings. In other words, if she got on average six one hour bookings at 100 EUR per hour at Sharks, she is able to get at least four one hour bookings at 150 EUR per hour via incall / outcall. Why? Because I believe such a WG would be popular amongst Sharks customers who are local to Frankfurt area. If I am a Sharks regular, and I see a Sharks WG on KM, even if she is a WG I never sessioned with, I would consider booking her. At least I know what I am getting, because I would have seen her in person or I would have heard about her service. Kaufmich and Ladies is much more a roll of the dice. Too many fake photos.
RE: Kurzarbeit. How many in German received this? One in ten workers. Would they be high earners or minimum wage? If minimum wage, I would assume that they would not be the type to attend Sharks, not regularly anyway.
RE: Health concerns. I agree many are playing it safe. But as the pandemic lasts longer, I think some men are reasoning that it is okay to see one or two WGs and just 3-4 sessions a month, seeing it is a calculated risk. In any case, it is safer than going to club with 100 mongers and 30 WGs, where the volume of social and sexual interactions is significantly higher.
How many of you know someone who got this virus and what were their experiences like?
Tia.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2464948]The real question, is the monger's spending decision based on fluctuations in net worth or is it based on net income changes?
People with a family could have completely different calculations (desire to leave most of networth to children, secure their long term future etc), but the guy also may have a paycheck from spouse he can count on even if loses his job.
I would think most of the Americans who fly out regularly to monger in Europe (I. E. Not those who use a tute once or twice if they happen to be in Europe, but those who regularly fly to Europe mainly for the purpose of having paid sex) are generally well off. I. E. Networth exceeding at least half a mil.If someone has no savings cushion whatsoever, and still travels to Europe regularly for sex, he is spending mainly out of monthly paycheck, which seems crazy to me. He runs the risk of not having any fallback cushion if his job / comp takes a dive. Unless the man is making high six figures salary; but that begs the question why he has no savings / networth to start with?[/QUOTE]I don't disagree with what you said, but some mongers just have more of a "live for today" mindset, so they do not seem to be too concerned with having a savings cushion or a retirement egg. Let's take two mongers, both single with no kids, both with net worth of $500 K and annual salary of $100 K. One monger is 35 yo and the other is 55 yo. Going off just these descriptors, I believe the 55 yo is going to splurge more on mongering. There are a variety or reasons why someone might not be overly focused on their long term financial horizon. Compared to the 35 yo monger, the following is more likely to be true for the 55 yo monger: (1) suffering from depression or loneliness (2) poor health or belief that they might not be alive (or sexually virile) much longer, (3) soon receive an inheritance from a dying parent, (4) lower chance of getting a moderately attractive 30 yo GF in real life. This is why some WGs will prey on certain mongers who they believe to be more vulnerable. If your window of hope is rapidly diminishing, burning through cash at an accelerated rate on a vice is one way to make yourself feel better.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2464742]US dollar generally becomes stronger during times of global economic distress.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Mursenary;2464695]I suspect the answer to this depends on your industry and your investment positions as I don't think that there will be an equal crash across the board like in 2000 or 2008.[/QUOTE]I believe both of the above assertions are true given current conditions, but my fears are more dire. If mass political or civil unrest ensues, it could challenge or upend both statements.
[QUOTE]"Is the US headed for another civil war? In a word, yes."
Professor Goldstone is a leading authority on the study of revolutions and long-term social change at George Mason University. The model developed by him and Peter Turchin tracks such data as the ratio of median workers' wages to GDP per capita, life expectancy, average heights, and the number of new millionaires. It also measures political polarisation or the degree of overlap between the parties.
Ten years ago, Professor Turchin pointed his model towards the future, and made an uncannily accurate prediction. Just like in the 1850s, crisis indicators were rising, he wrote in the journal Nature. They could be a reliable indicator of looming instability and "look set to peak in the years around 2020," he wrote.
It came down to population changes, Professor Goldstone argued. The American population surged after World War II the Boomer generation born in a time of relative peace and plenty. As this massive cohort aged and accrued wealth, they could make the country vulnerable to political crisis. But this would only happen, he wrote, if the elites did three things: tighten up the path to mobility to favour themselves and their children (like increasing the cost of university); dampen wage growth and claim a greater share of economic gains for themselves; and resist taxation so that government is starved of needed revenues.
Professor Goldstone predicts the real problems will begin after July 31, when Americans' $600 a week COVID-19 unemployment welfare expires.
"Social tensions likely continue to grow as we move to November," he said..[/QUOTE]I am by no means an expert on revolutions and social and civil unrest, but I believe two necessary ingredients are (1) economic hardship / inequality and (2) "bulge" in young population. I believe in 2020 we definitely have the former.
Original 2010 paper: [URL]https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a[/URL].
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2464679]Statement about CO2 retention and cloth masks and HIV lifestyle recommendation.
I'm not sure where you got the information that young people being sick is an anomaly but that is hardly the case anymore. I suppose that may depend on your definition of young but for the purpose of this board, I don't think discussing young 20-39 year olds has much relevance. The average age in my completely full 24 bed ICU unit just dropped to under 55. The regular medical wards have seen a spike in 40 something year olds requiring less invasive respiratory therapies.
We are getting better at treating this thing so in combination with the average younger age of those infected, death rates will decline but pulmonary alveolar damage in your 30's and 40's and myocardial cell death is irreversible. Survivors will live with compromised heart function in addition to lung damage. Quality of life and life expectancy will decline. Your young people thesis does a public health disservice.[/QUOTE]First of all, Stanford University has proven there is anywhere from a 5-20% reduction in Oxygen while wearing a mask depending on how hard you are breathing. While most CO2 will pass through the mask there is a suction caused by the mask that happens right before you stop exhaling and start inhaling that sucks back in a lot more CO2 than if you are not wearing a mask.
[URL]https://news.stanford.edu/2020/04/14/stanford-researchers-reengineer-covid-19-face-masks/[/URL]
You are a doctor so you probably think you are more intelligent than the people at Stanford. You probably went to Harvard. You seem intelligent to me with all those big fancy words you like to use, although I haven't ever met an intelligent doctor in my life in person, so far that is.
I have been to 56 different countries, and have 7,000 Facebook friends, 4500 WeChat Friends, 2000 Line friends, and about 1000 WhatsApp friends, and also a few hundred LinkedIn friends but I have never met an intelligent doctor. I even sold doctors the Medical Version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking back in the late 90's early 2000's. I must have met at least 30,000 doctors over the course of 8 years. I sold them that software for $499, that cost me $80 OEM. Just to be fair, I never met a Harvard doctor, probably because they are too intelligent to pay $499 for single use software.
As far as HIV, what is the latest medical theory? Oh yes, I remember, it can lay dormant in your system for 10 to 20 years before it ever affects you (that isn't HIV, it is old age). Oh my, the medical industry and condom companies really think "we the people" are so very, very stupid. Although, if it is real and you do get it, there is bone marrow transplant cures and new drug cured a guy in São Paulo. Then there is the medication that can be bought for as little as $5 a day in certain countries that can give you 30 years of normal livin'.
I will agree with your number of 55 as being old. I will admit to being stupid myself if you can prove that more than 5% of the severely sick and dead COVID-19 patients are below the age of 55 and were in good health before they contracted COVID-19. Good luck with that, I am not worried. I am assuming that 5% is a low enough percentage to be considered an anomaly.
[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm[/URL]#AgeAndSex.
Treatment, are you serious? The massive increase of UV radiation from the sun that doesn't need direct contact during the summer solstice is the biggest treatment. That combined with the humidity and warm temperatures of summer are the only thing treating the COVID-19 patients. The respirator might keep them alive but if you need a respirator your future, even if you do survive, will be bleak.
[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/leaked-government-report-shows-sunlight-destroys-coronavirus/ar-BB12Qql7[/URL]
Lastly, as far as the survivors of COVID-19, please tell me the name of just one patient that you spoke the words to: "You will have long term compromised heart function and lung damage solely due to COVID-19. I then, will represent them in a lawsuit against you and your hospital, because there is no way you can prove that statement about "severe" cases of COVID-19 much less the other 99% of the mild cases.
These are not my opinions or my "thesis", these are facts!
The dark ages of relying on doctors for good medical advice are over after years of doctors changing their minds about what is good for you just so they can line their own pockets!
For a few trillion dollars, what do you think your government would be willing to lie to you about?
160,000 People die every day and if we stop living just because of 530,000 elderly and unhealthy deaths caused by COVID-19 then we might as well join them.
Educate yourself and then educate others with facts not opinions! Stop reading the headlines and find the truth in the stories. Look to the Universities for the truth, they are not controlled like the media. Almost every ground breaking discovery comes from universities where the students are not afraid to challenge the norm.
As a reward for reading this far let me share some life changing facts with you!
Seawater Electrolysis where the chlorine is safely and cheaply filtered is real and has been proven for over 2 years. This means, almost free, completely sustainable electric power and fuel from seawater harvested hydrogen, will be available forever! This process will also cause more rain and fill the rivers and lakes with pure fresh water.
[URL]https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0360319918304993[/URL]
[URL]https://phys.org/news/2018-08-closer-sustainable-energy-seawater.html[/URL]
New Oxygen and Ozone discoveries about healing and their relationship to space and time are being made every day.
CRISPR modifications can eliminate viruses with as little as $100 cost. They say it is a moral issue but for $100, it beats dying. Many people have already had their pain signals CRISPRed off, so they will never experience pain again.
[URL]https://www.wired.com/story/could-crispr-be-the-next-virus-killer/[/URL]
Scarcity of anything important is a myth! Overpopulation is a myth for at least 10,000 years, ever heard of skyscraper farms!
The only thing that isn't a myth is government corruption that is paid for by the 1000 people who control everything on the planet. 1000 people against 7. 8 billion and we are afraid? That is also a brainwashed response we have to all the stories we have heard and movies we have watched.
You think this is about Covid-19, but it is not. This is a test to see how easily we are manipulated. Limiting international travel hasn't been done in years and there is not enough evidence to support this action now!
I don't want anyone to die, boosting your immune system is your best bet against fighting viruses. If you are 55 or older or if you have underlying health issues then you need to understand COVID-19 might be dangerous for you. Especially if you are an enemy of the state, haha.
For those of us who aren't 55 or older and are still healthy enough to bang 3 girls day, we ask you kindly please open the frickin' borders so we can die between the legs of a beautiful young lady exactly the way GOD intended!
If you are still not on board with educating yourself about the truth of Covid-19, then do it save some people from committing suicide because of the COVID-19 lockdowns. Lost jobs, stress from isolation, no money for bills and food have all resulted in hundreds of thousands of people worldwide giving up by taking their own lives. Many people are on the brink right now with the CDC reporting they get more suicide calls everyday than COVID-19 calls.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464994]I believe both of the above assertions are true given current conditions, but my fears are more dire. If mass political or civil unrest ensues, it could challenge or upend both statements.
I am by no means an expert on revolutions and social and civil unrest, but I believe two necessary ingredients are (1) economic hardship / inequality and (2) "bulge" in young population. I believe in 2020 we definitely have the former.
Original 2010 paper: [URL]https://www.nature.com/articles/463608a[/URL].[/QUOTE]I thought I answered your question. No, social unrest is not necessarily a guaranteed outcome in US. In fact, I would be surprised if it came to that near term. At least not directly due to pandemic. The point is, US government can keep borrowing from the market and keep spending vast sums of money to support its citizens through these tough times, until the virus subsides and economy stabilizes. That is not something every government in every country can, because (a) some countries do not have their own currencies and cannot borrow unlimited amounts of money as the US does (b) those that do have their own currencies, say India or Brazil or Russia, cannot borrow endless amounts of money to subsidize their citizens because their currencies will crash. In that sense, US is in a unique situation.
There could potentially be unrest in US because we seem to be a polarized society to some extent. But I think the media hypes up the degree of this polarization. So, I am not expecting a French Revolution in US anytime soon. But then again, a revolution by definition is a very fast rate of change and very very few people have the ability to foresee it, especially the timing of it with any accuracy.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2464986]I don't disagree with what you said, but some mongers just have more of a "live for today" mindset, so they do not seem to be too concerned with having a savings cushion or a retirement egg. Let's take two mongers, both single with no kids, both with net worth of $500 K and annual salary of $100 K. One monger is 35 yo and the other is 55 yo. Going off just these descriptors, I believe the 55 yo is going to splurge more on mongering. There are a variety or reasons why someone might not be overly focused on their long term financial horizon. Compared to the 35 yo monger, the following is more likely to be true for the 55 yo monger: (1) suffering from depression or loneliness (2) poor health or belief that they might not be alive (or sexually virile) much longer, (3) soon receive an inheritance from a dying parent, (4) lower chance of getting a moderately attractive 30 yo GF in real life. This is why some WGs will prey on certain mongers who they believe to be more vulnerable. If your window of hope is rapidly diminishing, burning through cash at an accelerated rate on a vice is one way to make yourself feel better.[/QUOTE]You may well be right, I simply have no feel for them. Fact of the matter is, I am not single and my mindset is very different, and I am in the accumulation mode. At some point in life, perhaps in retirement, I will be living off savings and my mindset will be different then perhaps. But for now, I can't even understand how to think like either person in the above scenarios.
TLDR. Too Long, did not read in entirety.
Key point worth clarifying, study quoted was regarding N95 masks, a special mask used specifically for aerosol particles, not common everyday surgical or face coverings recommended to the public. To put in perspective, proper use of those N95 masks require annual fit-testing and requires the user to be clean shaven for them to be effective.
30,000 doctors over 8 years amounts to 10 doctors per day. I don't think I meet 10 new people per day. That is quite the feat.
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2464997]First of all, Stanford University has proven there is anywhere from a 5-20% reduction in Oxygen while wearing a mask depending on how hard you are breathing. While most CO2 will pass through the mask there is a suction caused by the mask that happens right before you stop exhaling and start inhaling that sucks back in a lot more CO2 than if you are not wearing a mask.
[URL]https://news.stanford.edu/2020/04/14/stanford-researchers-reengineer-covid-19-face-masks/[/URL]
You are a doctor so you probably think you are more intelligent than the people at Stanford. You probably went to Harvard. You seem intelligent to me with all those big fancy words you like to use, although I haven't ever met an intelligent doctor in my life in person, so far that is.
I have been to 56 different countries, and have 7,000 Facebook friends, 4500 WeChat Friends, 2000 Line friends, and about 1000 WhatsApp friends, and also a few hundred LinkedIn friends but I have never met an intelligent doctor. I even sold doctors the Medical Version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking back in the late 90's early 2000's. I must have met at least 30,000 doctors over the course of 8 years. I sold them that software for $499, that cost me $80 OEM. Just to be fair, I never met a Harvard doctor, probably because they are too intelligent to pay $499 for single use software.[/QUOTE]
I was in Germany yesterday for business and I'm happy to report that things are SLOWLY returning back to normal.
Instead of visiting Sharks after my meetings, I went to have a small bite to eat in a nearby town and restaurants and shops are quite full again and many people are sitting outside on terrases.
It's a true pity that clubs with a big outside area (Sharks, GT, Oase) are not allowed to open, because it seems that outside in the fresh air there is a very small chance of catching CV19. What concerns me is when the weather cools down again in September-October, the spread of CV19 will increase again because people are forced inside. Unlike the US, not many houses and businesses in Europe have air conditioning, and I wonder if HVAC systems are spreading CV19.
I remember my last visit to Sharks in January, and the air inside was really bad as always. Furthermore, the hygiene has been going downhill at Sharks for many years; dirty toilets with faces stains on the dividing walls, no soap in the dispensers, no paper towels to dry hands, dirty floors, and dirty / hot rooms. Just imagine how much dirt and how many bacteria are living inside the carpet in the main area, because this has not been replaced or cleaned in years.
Although line up was not fantastic at end of January, I really miss many beauties from Sharks and I hope it will reopen soon!
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465052]I thought I answered your question. No, social unrest is not necessarily a guaranteed outcome in US. In fact, I would be surprised if it came to that near term. At least not directly due to pandemic. The point is, US government can keep borrowing from the market and keep spending vast sums of money to support its citizens through these tough times, until the virus subsides and economy stabilizes. That is not something every government in every country can, because (a) some countries do not have their own currencies and cannot borrow unlimited amounts of money as the US does (b) those that do have their own currencies, say India or Brazil or Russia, cannot borrow endless amounts of money to subsidize their citizens because their currencies will crash. In that sense, US is in a unique situation.
There could potentially be unrest in US because we seem to be a polarized society to some extent. But I think the media hypes up the degree of this polarization. So, I am not expecting a French Revolution in US anytime soon. But then again, a revolution by definition is a very fast rate of change and very very few people have the ability to foresee it, especially the timing of it with any accuracy.[/QUOTE]Remember the 1920's Weimar Republic, Germany when one had to walk with a wheel barrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread or recently in Zimbabwe when a can of beans cost a million Zimbabwe dollars. That's what happens when a country tries to print money to save its flagging economy and such increase in cash is not related to the production of goods. Well the US has shipped production to other countries, mostly China, but has been printing trillions of dollars not related to production, multiples what was done in the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe. However, the economy has not crashed. Why is that? Because the US dollar is the world reserve currency which is backed up by its military. Let any country try to opt out of doing its trade in US dollars and it would face its wrath. That is why the US attacked Iraq and Afghanistan and is taking action against Iran and Venezuela. China and Russia have been making noise about not using the US dollar and the US is taking appropriate action against them. The US economy is propped up by its military prowess.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2464551]So you will wait until you take jab from the State before you jab girls.[/QUOTE]That is the idea, LOL.
Keep in mind these girls have seen many people in a days. The chance that she will get infected from other people are very high. You will not have fun to "jab" the girl if you still worry to get infected.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2464628]That's not the correct information to estimate death rate because of Covid19. In Belgium, for example, they include as Covid19 deaths even those that are simply suspected to have been caused bby Covid19. The only way to verify the death rate due to Covid is to look at excess deaths for each country compared to the previous two years. Based on the correct data, UK has the highest death rate in the world at the moment.[/QUOTE]
Keep in mind there are various method to calculate the death rate due to COVID-19. The UK seems high becuase it includes people in care home. Keep in mind thousand death in care home on daily basis already exist far beyond the COVID-19 pandemic.
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2464997]First of all, Stanford University has proven there is anywhere from a 5-20% reduction in Oxygen while wearing a mask depending on how hard you are breathing. While most CO2 will pass through the mask there is a suction caused by the mask that happens right before you stop exhaling and start inhaling that sucks back in a lot more CO2 than if you are not wearing a mask.
[URL]https://news.stanford.edu/2020/04/14/stanford-researchers-reengineer-covid-19-face-masks/[/URL]
You are a doctor so you probably think you are more intelligent than the people at Stanford. You probably went to Harvard. You seem intelligent to me with all those big fancy words you like to use, although I haven't ever met an intelligent doctor in my life in person, so far that is.
I have been to 56 different countries, and have 7,000 Facebook friends, 4500 WeChat Friends, 2000 Line friends, and about 1000 WhatsApp friends, and also a few hundred LinkedIn friends but I have never met an intelligent doctor. I even sold doctors the Medical Version of Dragon NaturallySpeaking back in the late 90's early 2000's. I must have met at least 30,000 doctors over the course of 8 years. I sold them that software for $499, that cost me $80 OEM. Just to be fair, I never met a Harvard doctor, probably because they are too intelligent to pay $499 for single use software.
As far as HIV, what is the latest medical theory? Oh yes, I remember, it can lay dormant in your system for 10 to 20 years before it ever affects you (that isn't HIV, it is old age).[/QUOTE]You have 15000 friends on face de bouc or other sm? Did you ever see them? Are you sure they are what they claim to be? For me, same like in brothels where all guys are businessman, but when Germany will stay closed, they don t go to more expensive Switzerland.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;2464947]Seriously, what do you know.[/QUOTE]My comment was mainly based on two assessments:
1. There are clear indications that even though the production of antibodies an individual produces after having received the virus is negliable for most, the production of T-cells seem far more promising. And some smaller sampling show that this is in fact creating some sort of protection against future corona viruses.
2. Historically there has been far deadlier corona viruses around than covid-19. The problem with covid-19 however is the Ace2 receptor and the FURIN cleavage. At least the last of which is added in a lab. And so it spreads far quicker than any former corona viruses among the human populace.
Here is a well written blog post written on it:
[URL]https://www.virology.ws/2020/05/14/sars-cov-2-furin-cleavage-site-revisited/[/URL]
Seems MERS did have a cleavage site, but not an RRAR, like the covid-19 has, which is the most effective one.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2465186]You have 15000 friends on face de bouc or other sm? Did you ever see them? Are you sure they are what they claim to be? For me, same like in brothels where all guys are businessman, but when Germany will stay closed, they don t go to more expensive Switzerland.[/QUOTE]Why do you feel to be provocative? This period is difficult and some need to work with very little free time!
[QUOTE=Turgid;2465146]Remember the 1920's Weimar Republic, Germany when one had to walk with a wheel barrow full of cash to buy a loaf of bread or recently in Zimbabwe when a can of beans cost a million Zimbabwe dollars. That's what happens when a country tries to print money to save its flagging economy and such increase in cash is not related to the production of goods. Well the US has shipped production to other countries, mostly China, but has been printing trillions of dollars not related to production, multiples what was done in the Weimar Republic and Zimbabwe. However, the economy has not crashed. Why is that? Because the US dollar is the world reserve currency which is backed up by its military. Let any country try to opt out of doing its trade in US dollars and it would face its wrath. That is why the US attacked Iraq and Afghanistan and is taking action against Iran and Venezuela. China and Russia have been making noise about not using the US dollar and the US is taking appropriate action against them. The US economy is propped up by its military prowess.[/QUOTE]Weimar is pre Bretton Woods. After Bretton Woods, US de-pegged from gold and from 1960's all the other major currencies began using dollar as the reserve and more or less pegged to US -- not necessarily in terms of a direct exchange peg like HKD or RMB but through dollar as a reserve. Yes, I agree that the US enjoys massive advantage due to its reserve which is what I was saying, but don't agree it is because of our military prowess. It is because the reserve system itself is explicitly built into Bretton Woods. US itself pulled out of Bretton Woods when Nixon was in office, but the reserve system persisted. Remember, after WW2 to 1970's, US was accounting for nearly half of global GDP. So, effectively it was easier for all the other nations in the world to accept US currency as the de facto currency for the world. US is no longer that big but we still account for 25% of global GDP, and much more importantly, there is no alternative. Euro is the main challenger, but it is an amalgam, not of a single country, and there are always questions on how long Euro might last. In 2012-15, during the Greece crisis, some people thought Euro might fall apart, and many Germans would have loved a return to Deutsche mark. China is logically the #2 given it is the second largest economy but RMB is not convertible and no one has much confidence in their economic stats and no one wants to hold vast sums of their currency as reserve. Yen is now too small, given Japan's size.
As for ZImwabwe, yes, precisely. That's what I mean by a country losing discipline and its currency quickly becoming worthless. When a country goes into a death spiral as Zimbabwe did, it is almost impossible to get out of it quickly. So, however painful the economy is, and however tempting, central banks in Brazil / Russia / India / South Africa have to be very careful not to print like crazy. Turkey is one country which seems to be never having any discipline. Hence this year, it lost nearly 20% versus US dollar.
Military prowess is not that huge in this equation. In the cold war period, no one cared about Russian Ruble eventhough RUssia was a huge military power then. Still is. Now, China is a domianting regional military power but again no one wants to hold RMB as a reserve. To the extent RMB is considered for reserve, it is because China is a much bigger economy and more important global economic player, as compared to Russia in the cold war.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2465095]TLDR. Too Long, did not read in entirety.
Key point worth clarifying, study quoted was regarding N95 masks, a special mask used specifically for aerosol particles, not common everyday surgical or face coverings recommended to the public. To put in perspective, proper use of those N95 masks require annual fit-testing and requires the user to be clean shaven for them to be effective.
30,000 doctors over 8 years amounts to 10 doctors per day. I don't think I meet 10 new people per day. That is quite the feat.[/QUOTE]I admire your spirit doctor, proven wrong on every front but still willing to retort. I bet you have a little French in you, they never admit defeat even as the walls are burning all around them. I realize you didn't read my whole post so you don't realize you were all wrong, but you did manage to find one possible mistake I made. Or was it a trap.
Unfortunately for you I said nothing about N95 masks, that was only in the article. This next part is going to hurt. The people who control everything want you to wear a mask and stay quarantined so your immune system is shattered when you finally do go outside. They want you to die, old and sick people dying is great for the economy. That and the population is far too big to control at this point. That is why they float overpopulation rumors.
Here are "many" websites that say the all masks reduce oxygen intake and allow you to inhale more CO2. Many of them say it shouldn't be that dangerous to wear a mask but then warn not to wear a mask while driving.
Please read each story fully you will see each one tackling with telling the truth (as they all do a few times in the story) and trying not to piss off the people who own them. Some of these links say "It is unlikely you will experience a problem from wearing a cloth face mask especially if you wear or for a short period of time. " If there is no problem why would the duration matter. The CDC says Don't do any physical activity or wear the mask for prolonged periods of time or if you have trouble breathing. Well golly, I thought it was the same amount of oxygen coming through the mask, why so many restrictions. I can suck on the tailpipe of a car for a short time and not die but that will definitely affect my immune system performance for the next week.
[URL]https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover-guidance.html[/URL]
[URL]https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00392-020-01704-y[/URL]
[URL]https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/covid-19-and-face-masks-to-wear-or-not-to-wear[/URL]
[URL]https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/does-wearing-a-face-mask-reduce-oxygen-and-can-it-increase-co2-levels-heres-what-experts-say/ar-BB14356c[/URL]
[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/27/fact-check-ohsa-didnt-say-cloth-masks-offer-no-covid-19-protection/3266817001/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/masks-dangerous-health/[/URL]
The CDC has most of the real info if you search and you are good at reading graphs because they have been burned by the White House and Congress before and now they practice CYA "cover your ass" protocols.
In 8 years I did more than 200 trade shows and medical conventions. I sold about a 1,000 software suites a year. I figure I am a good at sales so a 25% close rate on 8000 would be about 30,000 doctors who watched my presentation. It's OK, math is tricky devil for doctors if it isn't in CC's.
The reason why doctors have there own code words for measurement is so people can't self medicate. Medicine will soon be a thing of the past anyway. Really, eating the food that contains the things your body needs is the best medicine.
My SM friends I have all added in person, I only add half the people I meet who ask to add them and I would never add a person I didn't know. Not that that makes any difference about anything. You guys keep sleeping and good luck!
As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.
I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.
The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.
But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?
[QUOTE=Adindas;2465201]As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.
I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.
The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.
But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?[/QUOTE]What if they don't repay the loan? Is the bank going to repossess the property? Whoever moves in will have the same issue that the bank would have if it keeps the property and converts it to a bank branch. Not all the guys will get the memo about the new ownership and new activity. If it is a bank branch now, guys will go to the window of the hottest teller and put 50 euros in the slot. She thinks it is a bank account deposit and he thinks they are going off together to have sex in another room, and it is merely "dress as a hot bank teller" day at the FKK. The language barrier will add to the problems. It will be a disaster, especially if he had decided to remove his clothes after entering the facility and approaching the teller window.
This is not unique to the FKKs. A lot of loans will just go into abeyance because the bank doesn't want to foreclose on the property and try to sell it at its least productive state.
[QUOTE=Adindas;2465201]As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.
I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.
The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.
But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?[/QUOTE]The popular ones such as Sharks, Oase etc should be able to ride it out given the huge sums they were taking in pre covid19. Not sure about the small ones, depends on the circumstances for each I suppose.
[QUOTE=Adindas;2465201]As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.
I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.
The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.
But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Adindas;2465201]As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.
I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.
The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.
But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?[/QUOTE]The popular ones such as Sharks, Oase etc should be able to ride it out given the huge sums they were taking in pre covid19. Not sure about the small ones, depends on the circumstances for each I suppose.
[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2465129]I was in Germany yesterday for business and I'm happy to report that things are SLOWLY returning back to normal.
Instead of visiting Sharks after my meetings, I went to have a small bite to eat in a nearby town and restaurants and shops are quite full again and many people are sitting outside on terrases.
It's a true pity that clubs with a big outside area (Sharks, GT, Oase) are not allowed to open, because it seems that outside in the fresh air there is a very small chance of catching CV19. What concerns me is when the weather cools down again in September-October, the spread of CV19 will increase again because people are forced inside. Unlike the US, not many houses and businesses in Europe have air conditioning, and I wonder if HVAC systems are spreading CV19.
I remember my last visit to Sharks in January, and the air inside was really bad as always. Furthermore, the hygiene has been going downhill at Sharks for many years; dirty toilets with faces stains on the dividing walls, no soap in the dispensers, no paper towels to dry hands, dirty floors, and dirty / hot rooms. Just imagine how much dirt and how many bacteria are living inside the carpet in the main area, because this has not been replaced or cleaned in years.
Although line up was not fantastic at end of January, I really miss many beauties from Sharks and I hope it will reopen soon![/QUOTE]Biggest risk to catch is when you have sex with a girl who is fucked by everybody, not when you sleep or play football in the garden.
[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2465203]This is not unique to the FKKs. A lot of loans will just go into abeyance because the bank doesn't want to foreclose on the property and try to sell it at its least productive state.[/QUOTE]Yes, I expect that there will be a lot of loan restructuring and refinancing going on. Everybody would benefit in the long run, including the banks.
[QUOTE=Kartoffel;2465196]Why do you feel to be provocative? This period is difficult and some need to work with very little free time![/QUOTE]Because when you see these guys and their behavior, you know they are not what they claim to be. I tell girls my real job, why? Because I m proud of it, and I never say I m a businessman, which mean nothing for me, when so many fake businessmen in brothels.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2465222]Because when you see these guys and their behavior, you know they are not what they claim to be. I tell girls my real job, why? Because I m proud of it, and I never say I m a businessman, which mean nothing for me, when so many fake businessmen in brothels.[/QUOTE]Telling prostitutes in a fuck club that you are a business man is as useful as telling colleagues in a business meeting that you stick your dick inside prostitutes in a fuck club?
[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2465129]I was in Germany yesterday for business and I'm happy to report that things are SLOWLY returning back to normal.
Instead of visiting Sharks after my meetings, I went to have a small bite to eat in a nearby town and restaurants and shops are quite full again and many people are sitting outside on terrases.
It's a true pity that clubs with a big outside area (Sharks, GT, Oase) are not allowed to open, because it seems that outside in the fresh air there is a very small chance of catching CV19. What concerns me is when the weather cools down again in September-October, the spread of CV19 will increase again because people are forced inside. Unlike the US, not many houses and businesses in Europe have air conditioning, and I wonder if HVAC systems are spreading CV19.
I remember my last visit to Sharks in January, and the air inside was really bad as always. Furthermore, the hygiene has been going downhill at Sharks for many years; dirty toilets with faces stains on the dividing walls, no soap in the dispensers, no paper towels to dry hands, dirty floors, and dirty / hot rooms. Just imagine how much dirt and how many bacteria are living inside the carpet in the main area, because this has not been replaced or cleaned in years.
Although line up was not fantastic at end of January, I really miss many beauties from Sharks and I hope it will reopen soon![/QUOTE]I too was in Sharks early in this year, and while occasionally it gets dirty I don't think it was super bad, nor was it much worse than in years past. In any case, Corona is different from any disease that may be contacted due to unclean ambience. Covid is mostly airborne. If there is no one else in an empty club, even if the club is horribly dirty and stinky, you will not catch Covid; OTOH if they clean the club super squeaky clean and it is packed up with 600 girls and mongers in touching proximity, you run the risk of catching the virus. One single dude transmitted the virus to more than 100 people in Itaewon Korea a few weeks ago.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465240]Telling prostitutes in a fuck club that you are a business man is as useful as telling colleagues in a business meeting that you stick your dick inside prostitutes in a fuck club?[/QUOTE]Define 'business man' LOL.
I am always in the club for business. The real type of business!
I think the smaller ones will survive and not the bigger ones.
Less payroll staff and operating expenses and probably much lower property rent.
Income will be reduced anyway in either big or small clubs so in this case if I was an owner I would prefer to run less expenses.
For clubs like Sharks Oase it will be harder I think.
I agree with all of you guys. The problem is not unique to FKK, but other business such as pubs, restaurants, leisure centres, high street retailers they are all facing the same problem.
The bank will need to decide whether they will be giving them holidays. But the problem here is that most lenders, especially the small one which is heavily relying on the retail banking are also struggling to survive. The government policy force them to lend unprofitable business. Another issue here with the banks is the interest rate is currently very low which make themselves struggle to survive.
[QUOTE=Abox79;2465208]The popular ones such as Sharks, Oase etc should be able to ride it out given the huge sums they were taking in pre covid19. Not sure about the small ones, depends on the circumstances for each I suppose.[/QUOTE]Exactly. But Not good for us the punters. We are expecting more FKs outthere to compete based on efficiency to drive the price down while maintaining the same quality.
[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2465203]What if they don't repay the loan? Is the bank going to repossess the property? Whoever moves in will have the same issue that the bank would have if it keeps the property and converts it to a bank branch. Not all the guys will get the memo about the new ownership and new activity. If it is a bank branch now, guys will go to the window of the hottest teller and put 50 euros in the slot. She thinks it is a bank account deposit and he thinks they are going off together to have sex in another room, and it is merely "dress as a hot bank teller" day at the FKK. The language barrier will add to the problems. It will be a disaster, especially if he had decided to remove his clothes after entering the facility and approaching the teller window.
This is not unique to the FKKs. A lot of loans will just go into abeyance because the bank doesn't want to foreclose on the property and try to sell it at its least productive state.[/QUOTE]Exactly. The bank wil also be having the hard choice.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2465222]Because when you see these guys and their behavior, you know they are not what they claim to be. I tell girls my real job, why? Because I m proud of it, and I never say I m a businessman, which mean nothing for me, when so many fake businessmen in brothels.[/QUOTE]Sirioja, the girls couldn't care less what us guys do for a living, they only care for our custom in other words our money. If we part with the money and treat them well with a good attitude we may well benefit from better service.
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2465200]I admire your spirit doctor, proven wrong on every front but still willing to retort. I bet you have a little French in you, they never admit defeat even as the walls are burning all around them. I realize you didn't read my whole post so you don't realize you were all wrong, but you did manage to find one possible mistake I made. Or was it a trap.
Unfortunately for you I said nothing about N95 masks, that was only in the article. This next part is going to hurt. The people who control everything want you to wear a mask and stay quarantined so your immune system is shattered when you finally do go outside. They want you to die, old and sick people dying is great for the economy. That and the population is far too big to control at this point. That is why they float overpopulation rumors.[/QUOTE]Never have I ever participated in an internet discussion where someone use sources that contradict their own points in order to try to prove it. Weird times.
[QUOTE=Adindas;2465381]Exactly. But Not good for us the punters. We are expecting more FKs outthere to compete based on efficiency to drive the price down while maintaining the same quality.[/QUOTE]For me, sex is not grocery nor cheap Asian products, but matter of quality. For me a expensive Audi is less expensive than a cheap Chinese car and a GND with who I would not go for free in real life is too expensive for 50. I prefer to pay more expensive for a girl who will make me dream, not only emptying balls, this is not interesting for me. I pay to dream, not for animal sex and important for me when girls offer me for free. Then behavior is even more attractive, if charm and good manners. Princess manners excite me much more than vulgarity or seeing a girl being fucked.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2465312]I am always in the club for business. The real type of business![/QUOTE]Often I keep on working my real job in brothels.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2465219]Biggest risk to catch is when you have sex with a girl who is fucked by everybody, not when you sleep or play football in the garden.[/QUOTE]So if I understand you correctly, you advocate to keep clubs closed indefinitely? Until a vaccine or herd immunity is achieved?
[QUOTE=MrHo;2465259]I am surprise that the country like Switzerland where it is also strict with things in general let the brothels to be reopened again.[/QUOTE]Yes, and that makes me wonder: if the virus really not so dangerous, or are they deliberately laying the foundation for blaming brothels for starting a "second wave" in the future?
Similar to most countries certain "contact sports" like judo, boxing and wrestling are not allowed in Switzerland, but prostitution is? I don't understand the logic here, as many gyms and sports clubs are also professional business and need customers in order to survive.
[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-05-28/swiss-say-sex-work-is-ok-but-not-judo-in-virus-reopening[/URL]
[QUOTE=Adindas;2465170]That is the idea, LOL.
Keep in mind these girls have seen many people in a days. The chance that she will get infected from other people are very high. You will not have fun to "jab" the girl if you still worry to get infected.[/QUOTE]On Wednesday I was banging an escort and while copulating she warned me that she was going to cough and I continued pumping her and she coughed and I thought nothing of it and banged to climax. Last night while in bed I coughed a few times and thought damn I should have pulled out, exited the room and put a mask on. Its hard to be cautious while having sex.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2465311]Define 'business man' LOL.[/QUOTE]In my next life I want to say my business is being a male porn star and I am Romanian lover boy on the side, LOL.
[QUOTE=Adindas;2465201]As one of the FFK lover I really hope that FKK will survive during this difficult time. But I still have some doubts as some of them might collapse.
I believe many FKK own their own property so no rent to pay here, But I think the main problem here is many of FKK have some loan to pay, with no income it is just a matter of time before they declare bankruptcy with the prolong void, no income period.
The girls are not a problem as long as Romania is still in the EU nothing to worry with the girl's supply.
But what do you think? Do you think many FKKs will disappear if the business is not resuming as usual by winter this year (say)?[/QUOTE]The key is what you wrote above, which is the state of their balance sheets. We can all guess their cash flows, but what was their balance sheet going into March? Also, who are the owners? I hear speculation on this site many times that this club or that club is owned by bikers / mafia / other sketchy players / and if so, the question is how did they finance the club, what was the purpose of the club: strictly to make money or was it to launder money, etc?
The reality is that most of us are not privy to the financial statements of any of these clubs, so we are just guessing.
If the club has a good brand name, even if the owners become bankrupt, it may be kept alive by new owners after ownership and capital restructuring.
If the club's attendance was so so and did not have any compelling brand name, then it would be tougher. In such a scenario, not many new owners will step forward in case of bankruptcy by prior owners.
A very important variable is how fast and how strong will business come back? In the US, restaurants and other establishments are finding out that even when they open, customers are coming back only half heartedly. I guess the virus is being handled better in EU and seems your situation is better. Perhaps locals will go back. But what about the sex tourists from US / Asia? What about business men (that dirty word again, Sirioja!) who travel to DE for some business and pop in to Oase for a quick fuck? Would international travel come back at the same rate? If not, which clubs are more exposed to that particular segment and who will lose out more / less? I don't believe we have enough info to know the answers to all these questions.
[QUOTE=Mursenary;2465412]Never have I ever participated in an internet discussion where someone use sources that contradict their own points in order to try to prove it. Weird times.[/QUOTE]Little danger means there is still danger and without quantifying it anything short of death could be considered little danger. If the mask is so loose that it is hanging off of your nose and not actually touching any other part of your face, then yes no danger. Any closer and you will decrease the amount of fresh oxygen you are breathing which will lower your immune system after about an hour. Faster if you are breathing heavily.
Let me give you another example: You are in little danger if you receive oral sex from a girl with AIDS Without using a condom unless you have a cut around your penis, also you are also in little danger if you have sex with a girl with AIDS if you are wearing a condom unless the condom breaks.
Would you Knowingly have oral sex without a condom or straight sex with a condom with a girl who has AIDS even though there is only little danger?
I will not respond to you anymore, you lack common sense and you have shown that you have a general lack of understanding concerning English. If I was playing you in a game of chess, I would just walk away because playing with you could negatively affect my intelligence.
Also, the US dollar is printed by the Federal Reserve which is owned by the same people who run the World Banks and International Monetary Fund and they also print the Euro and currencies of over 200 countries. With fractional lending most money is not backed by anything except a country's citizens deposits of cash in the banks and they can print 9 times more than a country has in the bank. They sell newly printed money to a country at about a 20% increase and then charge about 5% interest per year on top of that until it is repaid.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465052]No, social unrest is not necessarily a guaranteed outcome in US. In fact, I would be surprised if it came to that near term. At least not directly due to pandemic.
There could potentially be unrest in US because we seem to be a polarized society to some extent. But I think the media hypes up the degree of this polarization. So, I am not expecting a French Revolution in US anytime soon. But then again, a revolution by definition is a very fast rate of change and very very few people have the ability to foresee it, especially the timing of it with any accuracy.[/QUOTE]While the precise timing of a revolution would be hard to predict, there are certain risk factors. If youth unemployment were 20-40 percent, and say 20 percent of the population is between ages of 15-24, mass political or civil unrest would be a guaranteed outcome. Fortunately, USA does not have those kind of demographics or unemployment figures.
The pandemic might not directly lead to unrest, but it forced people to reflect on inequalities. Blacks feel left behind. Poor rural whites feel left behind. Millennials feel left behind (exorbitant student loans, 2008 crisis, 2020 crisis). The Fourth Industrial Revolution will also bring about disruptive changes. Given the below quote, I would be surprised if there isn't a strong push for universal health care or universal basic income in the coming decades:
[QUOTE]"The feeling that society is rigged against them helps explain the sharply leftward shift in views among many millennials in the US. In a poll conducted last year by Harris, 49.6 per cent of Americans born after 1981 said they would prefer to live in a socialist country. A Harvard poll of Americans under 30 has seen a sharp increase in support over the past eight years for the idea that healthcare is a basic right that the government should have a role in providing: in the poll this year, 63 per cent agreed."
https://www.ft.com/content/241f0fe4-08f8-4d42-a268-4f0a399a0063
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2465424]Worst is they don't really control, so they are not able to inform people when so many give false information and control spreading, but all is about money for Swiss administration and brothels owners know how to deal with, when a bad guy like me give true information, because if I m ready to take risks, I respect others health. But we know about level of respect for so many businessmen in brothels.[/QUOTE]Well, I'm very much afraid that the authorities are deliberately setting prostitutes / customers / brothels up for permanent closures or totalitarian tracking apps on smartphones in case CV19 starts spreading again in autumn.
It will be easy to be point fingers at brothels, prostitutes, and their customers for not providing / checking contact data, or accepting / providing false contact data.
The end conclusion is simple and foreseeable as authorities will say: "you see, people can not be trusted, so now we need to shut down brothels and force everybody to install totalitarian CV19 tracking apps on phones to monitor everybody 24/7. "
There is already a lot of media hype about every new case of CV19, and the stage for a second wave (real or imagined) is set. Furthermore, for ideological reasons, any successful treatment of CV19 is deliberately blocked by most western governments and the WHO because this was endorsed by Trump. In my country, doctors who successfully treated many patients with hydroxychloroquine + vitamine see, the + zinc are being silenced by the health authorities and shamed in the media for being quacks.
When authorities want something, they always deliberately create a crisis and then provide their "solution" as the only option. And it's always also a few irresponsible idiots that ruin it for everybody else. Tracking apps and a vaccine seem to be the only "solutions" that most governments are willing to consider, because it gives them more power.
I want to return to the old days of happy and carefree FKK clubbing!
[QUOTE=Turgid;2465435]On Wednesday I was banging an escort and while copulating she warned me that she was going to cough and I continued pumping her and she coughed and I thought nothing of it and banged to climax. Last night while in bed I coughed a few times and thought damn I should have pulled out, exited the room and put a mask on. Its hard to be cautious while having sex.[/QUOTE]Isn't that a huge turnoff? Coughing in the middle of sex is only slightly less gross than farting, LOL. I mean, the sight of the contorted face, ribs.
Would spoil the mood for me even after she stopped coughing, as I reimagine that picture LOL.
I guess your testosterone levels must be much higher than mine.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2465490]While the precise timing of a revolution would be hard to predict, there are certain risk factors. If youth unemployment were 20-40 percent, and say 20 percent of the population is between ages of 15-24, mass political or civil unrest would be a guaranteed outcome. Fortunately, USA does not have those kind of demographics or unemployment figures.
The pandemic might not directly lead to unrest, but it forced people to reflect on inequalities. Blacks feel left behind. Poor rural whites feel left behind. Millennials feel left behind (exorbitant student loans, 2008 crisis, 2020 crisis). The Fourth Industrial Revolution will also bring about disruptive changes. Given the below quote, I would be surprised if there isn't a strong push for universal health care or universal basic income in the coming decades:[/QUOTE]Yeah, but there is a massive gulf between some sections of the society being unhappy + occasional riots to speaking about a revolution. If it is some riots, we are already having them now. We also had riots in 1960's, and if this question was asked in 1960's probably many might have said American society is heading towards a split or revolution etc, and as it were, we had 50-60 years of peaceful prosperity. And the FT quote talks about demands for universal healthcare among younger people. So, healthcare as a basic right is already fulfilled in most western societies and if US were to get it, does not need a revolution to get there. Obamacare went half way towards already and if Trump could put his name on it, he would be OK with it too. And when did youth not favor a socialism type set up? The famous saying is "if you are not a socialist at 20 you don't have a heart, and if you are not a capitalist at 40, you don't have any money or brain".
And also, you hedged yourself by saying "coming decades" - that is a long enough span that you could never be wrong (at least in our life time, LOL).
Tech always brings disruptive changes. That will continue. But do I expect people rising up to overthrow the bums and guillotine them literally or figuratively? Don't count on it in US.
My prediction is that Eurozone countries will either shrink in number to a few core nations (FR, DE, ND, etc) or Euro will simply fall apart as a currency and each will go back to its original currency before any revolution ever happens in the US. I also think China will become an existential threat to Europe and they will be torn between US and China. Either way, I am much more pessimistic about Europe than US, as an economic destination. Europe of course remains a lovely place to visit, the people are nicer (perhaps not so nice to Black people? I don't know and can't speak), food is awesome and just remains a lovely place to live and retire (and fuck for those of us mongers); I have this inner peace and tranquility when I am visiting Europe which I never seem to have in US (because I am enjoying copious amounts of sex when I am in Europe? LOL) but it is getting crushed between US and China and has no easy way out on the economic side.
[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2465491]There is already a lot of media hype about every new case of CV19, and the stage for a second wave (real or imagined) is set. Furthermore, for ideological reasons, any successful treatment of CV19 is deliberately blocked by most western governments and the WHO because this was endorsed by Trump. In my country, doctors who successfully treated many patients with hydroxychloroquine + vitamine see, the + zinc are being silenced by the health authorities and shamed in the media for being quacks.[/QUOTE]If nobody is telling us about the successful treatments because they are being blocked by western governments, how do you know? Because you heard it on TV, on the internet, on the radio, in the newspapers? So everyone says it then, it's not true that they don't tell us, otherwise you wouldn't know it either.
Mate, do not believe all the conspiracy theories you hear online.
P.S. 'Vitamin C' does not exist!
[QUOTE=MasterMonger;2465460]Would you Knowingly have oral sex without a condom or straight sex with a condom with a girl who has AIDS even though there is only little danger?[/QUOTE]Yes. Yes I would.
[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2465430]So if I understand you correctly, you advocate to keep clubs closed indefinitely? Until a vaccine or herd immunity is achieved?.[/QUOTE]I didn't write this, I would not be honest when I go to escorts in Paris, Swiss clubs and today Vienna, but if I was German with wife and children, I would be grateful to Germany to try to protect their health, and Germany need to confine again some parts, when Switzerland is just crazy, no control, all for money.
[QUOTE=Abox79;2465397]Sirioja, the girls couldn't care less what us guys do for a living, they only care for our custom in other words our money. If we part with the money and treat them well with a good attitude we may well benefit from better service.[/QUOTE]The girls often ask me if I am in town on business. I tell the truth and say no, and that I am a sex tourist. Usually gets a smirk and / or a laugh. Ha!
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465494]Isn't that a huge turnoff? Coughing in the middle of sex is only slightly less gross than farting, LOL. I mean, the sight of the contorted face, ribs.
Would spoil the mood for me even after she stopped coughing, as I reimagine that picture LOL.
I guess your testosterone levels must be much higher than mine.[/QUOTE]This is a very interesting and unexpected post. If a girl farted while you were shagging her would you go limp and be unable to continue? A contorted face turns you off? Does she keep a straight face while she is about to come? It would take a lot to turn me off while having sex, menstrual blood comes to mind or perhaps the girl vomits which has never happened. A police friend of mine once related a story that while he and his buddy were on patrol one night they came upon this guy pumping this girl in his car with windows up and a/c on. They knocked on his window and he looked at them but he kept on shagging. They shouted at him, banged on his window and threatened him but he did not stop. My buddy told me that he actually begged them to allow him to finish. He was an elderly guy. I sympathize with him.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2465739]This is a very interesting and unexpected post. If a girl farted while you were shagging her would you go limp and be unable to continue? A contorted face turns you off? Does she keep a straight face while she is about to come? It would take a lot to turn me off while having sex, menstrual blood comes to mind or perhaps the girl vomits which has never happened. A police friend of mine once related a story that while he and his buddy were on patrol one night they came upon this guy pumping this girl in his car with windows up and a/c on. They knocked on his window and he looked at them but he kept on shagging. They shouted at him, banged on his window and threatened him but he did not stop. My buddy told me that he actually begged them to allow him to finish. He was an elderly guy. I sympathize with him.[/QUOTE]I can stop quite easily in the middle of sex. If it is a small quick fart, only sound and no stink, yeah I suspect we will laugh it off and go on if we were fucking at that time. If she farted while I was eating her pussy it would be a bigger turnoff (I usually don't lick asshole, so can't say how that would make me feel). I haven't experienced too many pussy farts to comment about them. Even the sound of stomach gurgling from being hungry is a bit distracting occasionally. Persistent cough is definitely a turnoff but sneezing is actually cute if it happens just once or twice.
Your police friend's story is so amusing LOL. It is nice of him to have let the couple finish. Would it count as cruel and unusual punishment if he had forcibly stopped them and dragged them away from each other? LOL.
Some people can stop in the middle of sex much easier than others, not sure why. I don't take rooms with the explicit intent of not finishing in the rooms but I have read such stories on ISG. But there have been many times that I do not finish. Mainly because I do take many more rooms than I can cum. So, mathematically I am setting myself up to not finish in every fuck session. However, this only happens during FKK trips, not during any other sexual encounters for me and is happening more of late as my age is increasing now.
Is it like being a light v heavy sleeper? Some people can sleep through an earthquake and fire storm. No amount of yelling, shaking, even water thrown in the face will wake them. We all had college roommates who locked us out and slept and could not be woken up. I am generally a light sleeper now. I wonder if the heavy sleepers also tend to be the ones who cannot stop in the middle of sex.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2465739]This is a very interesting and unexpected post. If a girl farted while you were shagging her would you go limp and be unable to continue? A contorted face turns you off? Does she keep a straight face while she is about to come? It would take a lot to turn me off while having sex, menstrual blood comes to mind or perhaps the girl vomits which has never happened. A police friend of mine once related a story that while he and his buddy were on patrol one night they came upon this guy pumping this girl in his car with windows up and a/c on. They knocked on his window and he looked at them but he kept on shagging. They shouted at him, banged on his window and threatened him but he did not stop. My buddy told me that he actually begged them to allow him to finish. He was an elderly guy. I sympathize with him.[/QUOTE]I like a contorted face, especially when I'm nuts deep up in that anal tract. One reason why I love missionary anal so much LOL! I have never known a girl to actually fart when I was doing her, but there are those "pussy farts" you know where air gets trapped up in there. Can be very annoying and distracting, but not enough to get me to stop fucking. Now the menstrual cycle is another thing! Fucked a woman one time on her cycle and will never do that again! Blood everywhere! Ewwww! I don't know why women want to fuck during their period. Well, actually I heard that it can feel extra good as it soothes menstrual cramps. Well sorry lady, I can't help you on that! Have had other women want to fuck during "that time of the month", and I have always refused since that first bloody time. And always will!
[QUOTE=Turgid;2465435]On Wednesday I was banging an escort and while copulating she warned me that she was going to cough and I continued pumping her and she coughed and I thought nothing of it and banged to climax. Last night while in bed I coughed a few times and thought damn I should have pulled out, exited the room and put a mask on. Its hard to be cautious while having sex.[/QUOTE]For many people (me included) when we bang the girl, especially when they are hot and gorgeous, our other head is ruling. It does not take long before our real head is ruling again when we realise that it is too late.
So to me I am not going to "jab" the girls in the party, FKK before the COVID-19 vaccine is invented and I get the jab. Better if the anti-body test has been done. At least it will give a peace of mind that I have develop and immunity. I get flu jab every year not really efficient but I have not got influence since a long time ago, only mild cold.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2465699]The girls often ask me if I am in town on business. I tell the truth and say no, and that I am a sex tourist. Usually gets a smirk and / or a laugh. Ha![/QUOTE]LOL, I say the same thing, even if I am visiting Germany etc for business reasons. They are amazed when I tell them I travel just for the FKK. Also when they ask "have you been here before" I say "yes, have you", that usually is a good ice breaker.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465494]Isn't that a huge turnoff? Coughing in the middle of sex is only slightly less gross than farting, LOL. I mean, the sight of the contorted face, ribs.
Would spoil the mood for me even after she stopped coughing, as I reimagine that picture LOL.
I guess your testosterone levels must be much higher than mine.[/QUOTE]Some people cough, clearing throat in many occasions because of alergy after eating something for instance or cold weather.
I see [URL]https://www.meditherme.de/[/URL] outside of Bochum is open again. My favourite big relaxation sauna resort, full of naked regular German women relaxing but no fucking. Man what I would give for a day in there now.
Of course a day in an FKK brothel would be much better..
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465529]Yeah, but there is a massive gulf between some sections of the society being unhappy + occasional riots to speaking about a revolution. If it is some riots, we are already having them now. We also had riots in 1960's, and if this question was asked in 1960's probably many might have said American society is heading towards a split or revolution etc, and as it were, we had 50-60 years of peaceful prosperity.
Tech always brings disruptive changes. That will continue. But do I expect people rising up to overthrow the bums and guillotine them literally or figuratively? Don't count on it in US.
My prediction is that Eurozone countries will either shrink in number to a few core nations (FR, DE, ND, etc) or Euro will simply fall apart as a currency and each will go back to its original currency before any revolution ever happens in the US. I also think China will become an existential threat to Europe and they will be torn between US and China. Either way, I am much more pessimistic about Europe than US, as an economic destination.[/QUOTE]Social and civil unrest, particularly if it boils over to violence, will be perpetuated by young males. The pandemic forced a period of introspection for all of humanity. For those that feel "left behind", that may have deepened some wounds. Yes, there were riots in the 1960's, but this was an era of abundance. If you were white, 15-24 yo and had the fortune to be born in the USA during this period, your prospects for the future were incredibly promising. In 2020, I do not believe young Americans share this optimism. The cost of housing, education, and health care have all outpaced inflation. Adjusted for inflation, millennials are the first generation to be financially worse off than their parents:
[QUOTE]When his father, Craig, was 29, he was already married, owned a home in Payson, Utah, and had two of his five children. Now 64, Craig Larsen worked as a mechanical engineer, earning about $20,000 a year at the time, or about $50,500 in today's dollars, even though he hadn't finished college. His wife, Kathy, was a stay-at-home mom.
Scott, the youngest of the kids, is a marketing manager for a health and beauty company based in nearby Provo, Utah. Though he earns around $60,000 annually -- about 20% more than his dad did at his age -- he is living with his parents, because he doesn't feel he can afford to buy a place of his own thanks to soaring housing prices. While his dad was able to purchase a house for a little over twice his annual salary, Scott Larsen says he'd have to spend more than five times his yearly paycheck.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/11/politics/millennials-income-stalled-upward-mobility-us/index.html
[/QUOTE]Suicide rates have increased across all age groups, genders, and races.
[QUOTE]"The United States is one of the worlds outliers, with suicide rates climbing since the early 2000s. Every state has seen a rise but some, such as California and New York, have lower rates and more modest increases."
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/08/geography-loss-global-look-uneven-toll-suicide
[/QUOTE]This technology disruption will be more profound than previous ones. Re-training a farmer to work in a factory is much easier to do than re-training a truck driver to be a coder. In the long term, the Fourth Industrial Revolution should improve the quality of life for all of humanity, but in the near term increase social tensions, inequality, and discontent. The pandemic also gave companies an excuse to accelerate their adoption of AI.
[QUOTE]"Its quite different than the three Industrial Revolutions that preceded itsteam and water power, electricity and assembly lines, and computerization because it will even challenge our ideas about what it means to be human.
While in some ways it's an extension of the computerization of the 3rd Industrial Revolution (Digital Revolution), due to the velocity, scope and systems impact of the changes of the fourth revolution, it is being considered a distinct era. The Fourth Industrial Revolution is disrupting almost every industry in every country and creating massive change in a non-linear way at unprecedented speed."
https://www.forbes.com/sites/bernardmarr/2018/08/13/the-4th-industrial-revolution-is-here-are-you-ready[/QUOTE]I could foresee an eventual breakup or re-alignment of the EU. But most have predicted this since the beginning. I guess the question is whether it would be peaceful and gradual or a period of intense turmoil. You would have to elaborate on what China's rise might mean for Europe. Do you believe it would worsen just the financial well-being of the average European? Or change their way of life in a much more profound way?
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2465826]Social and civil unrest, particularly if it boils over to violence, will be perpetuated by young males. The pandemic forced a period of introspection for all of humanity. For those that feel "left behind", that may have deepened some wounds. Yes, there were riots in the 1960's, but this was an era of abundance. If you were white, 15-24 yo and had the fortune to be born in the USA during this period, your prospects for the future were incredibly promising. In 2020, I do not believe young Americans share this optimism. The cost of housing, education, and health care have all outpaced inflation. Adjusted for inflation, millennials are the first generation to be financially worse off than their parents:
Suicide rates have increased across all age groups, genders, and races.
This technology disruption will be more profound than previous ones. Re-training a farmer to work in a factory is much easier to do than re-training a truck driver to be a coder. In the long term, the Fourth Industrial Revolution should improve the quality of life for all of humanity, but in the near term increase social tensions, inequality, and discontent. The pandemic also gave companies an excuse to accelerate their adoption of AI.
I could foresee an eventual breakup or re-alignment of the EU. But most have predicted this since the beginning. I guess the question is whether it would be peaceful and gradual or a period of intense turmoil. You would have to elaborate on what China's rise might mean for Europe. Do you believe it would worsen just the financial well-being of the average European? Or change their way of life in a much more profound way?[/QUOTE]I think you and I have fundamentally 180 deg views. I am a lot more positive on US And it's future, while you are clearly negative on US. Not sure if you are negative on US or not because you ask questions more than you provide your own views, perhaps in an attempt to stir up discussion or don't want to reveal your real thinking, or perhaps due to other reasons. All of that is fine. Yes, Us is a polarized society with a high degree of inequality and yes some Millennials are struggling. But it is also incredibly vibrant, technologically it is streets ahead of all others, and we still attract the best minds in the world who want to come here. Some of the brightest people from Europe and Asia and Latin America come here to live, work, make their money, start new enterprises. Trump's anti immigration stance is unfortunate but I suspect we still haven't lost the luster. Our companies in stock market are valued the most. Just Apple alone is worth nearly 1. 5 trillion dollars, more than all of Latin America combined. In the last 15 years, at least measured by GDP per capita, the gap between US to most of the other nations has actually increased. These days, the main competition for us is China. It worries us endlessly. They are much more formidable than the Soviets ever were and their leadership is smarter than the idiots like Brezhnev and Andropov / Khrushchev. We slept at the wheel and partnered with Chinese and allowed them to ramp too much, and now they have a sufficiently large internal demand and in a decade might not need us at all. They are not there yet, but who knows, in a decade or two, they could be just as strong as US. Their younger people are smart, educated, hungry, enterprising, innovative, risk taking. All the things that made US strong. We simply do not see those things in Europe, not at scale anyway. Here and there, we see some pockets of growth and innovation and enterprise, but not enough. We simply do not see the same type of new company formation, innovation, technology development, venture capital investment, appreciation on the stock markets, etc. Germany is very dependent on automotive and industrial segments and has been depending more and more on China as a customer. But if in a decade, most of the cars are EV and also driverless, Germany economy faces big risks, as their market share in EV is likely to be less than what they enjoyed with internal combustion engines. Italy is a complete basket case, worse than Spain. UK is too dependent on financial services and London's role in serving Europe. I think Europeans get squeezed between US and China more and more, with not a whole lot of chance to turn this around. Their demographics suck, not enough population growth, not enough young people, and so many people in their late 20's and 30's still in University, no proper jobs, no family formation. That is not how you grow countries and economies. Again, I wish Europe was stronger, but no one who is in the financial services industry and follows Europe from an economics, investment point of view thinks Europe will turn around. 40 years ago, the world was Atlantic Ocean centered, with Europe and US on each side being the dominant centers of this world. Now this is a pacific century, it is US and China, and Asia in general. Korea and Taiwan are already as rich as Spain and Italy on a per capita basis or almost there. I have provided these numbers in the past. While US lead over Germany, the strongest economy in Europe has grown significantly in the last decade.
On top of all this, the national balance sheets are pretty crappy in many European nations. That is true for US as well, it as we discussed, we can print our money endlessly and so far the markets are giving us a pass. Italy or Spain or even France do not have that ability. They have aging populations, large pension liabilities, not enough working age populations making good enough money to support all these aging people even as life spans are increasing and healthcare costs increase.
So, you can focus on the negatives of US. Internal strife, divisions, inequality, racial tensions and all that, but I would say all of those are prevalent in Europe as well. No one can tell me that African immigrants are treated any better in France than they are in US. Our black people in US have higher per capita GDP than many European averages. We don't have monkey chants at our soccer games. So, I reject any moral superiority Europe throws in our direction, and anyway, that is irrelevant to this discussion. We had 15 years during which Europe continuously lost ground vs US and China both. When this actually turns around in any meaningful, we can talk.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2464172]
Then you have the slums in Bangladesh where it spreads like wildfire. The favelas in Brazil where hardly any medical personell enters and people die at home.
[/QUOTE]Ya hasrety! it turns out that the COVID-19 germ was already circulating in Brazil in November 2019:
[URL]https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.26.20140731v1[/URL]
Can anyone tell me how that is possible when it supposedly started in Wuhan, China in December 2019?
It was also found in the sewage of Spain and Italy around December.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2465933]It turns out that the COVID-19 germ was already circulating in Brazil in November 2019:
[URL]https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.26.20140731v1[/URL]
Can anyone tell me how that is possible when it supposedly started in Wuhan, China in December 2019?
It was also found in the sewage of Spain and Italy around December.[/QUOTE]It wasn't being tested for in Wuhan earlier. Try doing the testing in wuhan samples 2019 Oct. Of wait, that's not going to happen because of secrecy.
[QUOTE=Abox79;2465784]LOL, I say the same thing, even if I am visiting Germany etc for business reasons. They are amazed when I tell them I travel just for the FKK. Also when they ask "have you been here before" I say "yes, have you", that usually is a good ice breaker.[/QUOTE]I always say "are you new, haven't seen you here before". (Unless I have seen the girl before). Usually that puts them on the defensive a bit, because they think I am (a) not new in the club (b) they can't treat me like a newbie a and try to cheat me.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465494]Isn't that a huge turnoff? Coughing in the middle of sex is only slightly less gross than farting, LOL. I mean, the sight of the contorted face, ribs.
Would spoil the mood for me even after she stopped coughing, as I reimagine that picture LOL.
I guess your testosterone levels must be much higher than mine.[/QUOTE]This could be a new tactic employed by ladies. A customer appears ready to take up more than 10 minutes of a session. Cough Cough and suddenly the guy is running for the door.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465896]I think you and I have fundamentally 180 deg views. I am a lot more positive on US And it's future, while you are clearly negative on US.[/QUOTE]It's not a question of perspective, but objective reality. The US is clearly on the way out. No serious observers anywhere on earth suggest otherwise. Entire countries are reorganizing around this simple reality. You'd have to be some kind of totally deluded nationalist not to recognize the facts.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2465551]If nobody is telling us about the successful treatments because they are being blocked by western governments, how do you know? Because you heard it on TV, on the internet, on the radio, in the newspapers? So everyone says it then, it's not true that they don't tell us, otherwise you wouldn't know it either.
Mate, do not believe all the conspiracy theories you hear online.
P.S. 'Vitamin C' does not exist![/QUOTE]Please don't selectively quote me! I never said only vitamin c, I said: "hydroxychloroquine + vitamin c, d+ zinc. ".
Hydroxychloroquine is the main the medicine, but has to be used in combination with Vitamin see, Vitamin the and Zinc, and this combination seems to work quite well for a lot of CV19 patients, but unfortunately many people refuse to acknowledge this because it has become politicized because Trump endorced it.
One person who has been on top of CV19 since the middle of January (when most of the world was still asleep and never heard of Wuhan) is Dr Chris Martenson has a PhD in Pathology, and has been pushing for keeping an open mind, including Hydroxycloroquine, since day one: [URL]https://youtu.be/dLSYRqcg0wo[/URL].
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465454]The key is what you wrote above, which is the state of their balance sheets. We can all guess their cash flows, but what was their balance sheet going into March? Also, who are the owners? I hear speculation on this site many times that this club or that club is owned by bikers / mafia / other sketchy players / and if so, the question is how did they finance the club, what was the purpose of the club: strictly to make money or was it to launder money, etc?
The reality is that most of us are not privy to the financial statements of any of these clubs, so we are just guessing.
If the club has a good brand name, even if the owners become bankrupt, it may be kept alive by new owners after ownership and capital restructuring.
If the club's attendance was so so and did not have any compelling brand name, then it would be tougher. In such a scenario, not many new owners will step forward in case of bankruptcy by prior owners.
A very important variable is how fast and how strong will business come back? In the US, restaurants and other establishments are finding out that even when they open, customers are coming back only half heartedly. I guess the virus is being handled better in EU and seems your situation is better. Perhaps locals will go back. But what about the sex tourists from US / Asia? What about business men (that dirty word again, Sirioja!) who travel to DE for some business and pop in to Oase for a quick fuck? Would international travel come back at the same rate? If not, which clubs are more exposed to that particular segment and who will lose out more / less? I don't believe we have enough info to know the answers to all these questions.[/QUOTE]September and October are key months. Not only because the 4 or 5 vaccines that are in phase 3, will give us reliable results or not. We will also see if we could be talking about a second wave and if it is more aggressive than the first one or if the virus tends to be weaker, or if the virus does not have as many "healthy" bodies to stay. Maybe also in those months we will know for how long those who got covid during first wave will have immunity. We'll see some answers. I hope.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2465896]I think you and I have fundamentally 180 deg views. I am a lot more positive on US And it's future, while you are clearly negative on US. Not sure if you are negative on US or not because you ask questions more than you provide your own views, perhaps in an attempt to stir up discussion or don't want to reveal your real thinking, or perhaps due to other reasons.[/QUOTE]I would probably characterise myself as critical or fault-finding, rather than negative. I admit I focus more on negative things, but I see them as opportunities to improve. I am not overly convinced that GDP per capita is the end all, be all measure of the current economic welfare of the citizenry.
Compared to you, I seem to emphasize the social tensions and perceived inequalities more. The pandemic and social media shed brought these issues center stage, and extremist media on both sides probably exacerbated the divide. At some point, the inequality issue needs to be addressed. I am not saying running a country is like running a company, but if too many employees feel "left behind" or that they have "no skin in the game", they either disengage or actively sabotage. If my company is paying the highest average salary, is that the best metric to use? When employees start to feel upward mobility is not possible because the system is stacked against them, they give up. Perhaps, it is a matter of perception. By most metrics, a young rural White American or urban Black American is "richer" than your average Chinese migrant worker in Shanghai, but the latter is imbued with a sense of optimism for the future, if not for his own economic prospects, but for that of his children. Because USA has been the richest nation on earth for the past 75 years, does that create a sense of entitlement? Have working class Americans been spoiled? IDK. Are these anti-American beliefs?
Here is some "negativity" on China: the average Chinese is still poor by OECD standards, but what they have witnessed is 40 years of economic progress at breakneck speed. For that reason, your average millennial Chinese is politically apathetic. At some point, economic progress will stall, and I predict China would enter a period of strife once that happens, which if not managed correctly could lead to its downfall.
I do not deny USA's strengths. Trillion dollar companies, innovation, military, reserve currency, most talented immigrants, best universities. But historically all empires have fallen, so a country should not adopt a "back-to-back World champions" mindset, because it breeds complacency. There is always room for improvement. A healthy fear of China is good for the USA. I get the impression that many Americans believe China is only capable of stealing technology. That might be an outdated belief in 2020. To me, it would be better to overestimate the technical prowess of China, rather than underestimate it, because it would create a "Sputnik" moment.
There is a lagging effect between the decisions made today and the outcomes of the future. Case in point: the Space Race galvanised American policy makers to invest and prioritise STEM as early as 1955. This surplus of scientific talent helped USA develop the precursor to the Internet in the 1960's. So decisions made in 1955 helped create Silicon Valley, which helps to keep GDP per capita high even in 2020. If China wins the AI race in 2025, it is conceivable they would hit highest GDP per capita shortly after, and maybe even leverage that early technological lead to maintain the highest GDP per capita for 50 years beyond that, while being effectively resting on its laurels.
TBH, I was already bearish on EU's economic future, but primarily just based on their demographics problem. You gave me some additional points to ponder. Returning to what you said about the last 15 years, what metrics do you use when you say the USA lead over Germany has grown?
[QUOTE=HammerTime96;2466006]Please don't selectively quote me! I never said only vitamin c, I said: "hydroxychloroquine + vitamin c, d+ zinc. ".
Hydroxychloroquine is the main the medicine, but has to be used in combination with Vitamin see, Vitamin the and Zinc, and this combination seems to work quite well for a lot of CV19 patients, but unfortunately many people refuse to acknowledge this because it has become politicized because Trump endorced it.
One person who has been on top of CV19 since the middle of January (when most of the world was still asleep and never heard of Wuhan) is Dr Chris Martenson has a PhD in Pathology, and has been pushing for keeping an open mind, including Hydroxycloroquine, since day one: [URL]https://youtu.be/dLSYRqcg0wo[/URL].[/QUOTE]Funny, we stopped treating people with hydroxychloroquine in our hospitals back in May. Fact is, that drug has never been shown to be effective in vivo. Benefits have on been seen in laboratory in-vitro experiments. Drugs used, remdesivir, tocilizumab, decadron, and convalescent plasma are being used in combination with anti-coagulation medication, and obviously respiratory support.
[QUOTE=Wanking;2465812]I see [URL]https://www.meditherme.de/[/URL] outside of Bochum is open again. My favourite big relaxation sauna resort, full of naked regular German women relaxing but no fucking. Man what I would give for a day in there now.
Of course a day in an FKK brothel would be much better..[/QUOTE]I have always wanted to go to these sauna resorts in Germany but never did. I would decide to go to one on a particular day but end up going to an FKK instead. Has any ISG member banged a woman from these saunas?
[QUOTE=Turgid;2466099]I have always wanted to go to these sauna resorts in Germany but never did. I would decide to go to one on a particular day but end up going to an FKK instead. Has any ISG member banged a woman from these saunas?[/QUOTE]I haven't. I actually only ever saw a couple women in the regular sauna that even made my dick twitch. Most of the rest are memories burned into my brain I wish I could forget. Nothing like a lady bending over in front of you and cottage cheese popping into your mind. Then she turns a bit to the side and you see the white rockets hanging down toward the ground with water drop shaped ends and nippers stretched out flat. I got to the point where I just skepped them and went to the sauna club all day.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2466057]I would probably characterise myself as critical or fault-finding, rather than negative. I admit I focus more on negative things, but I see them as opportunities to improve. I am not overly convinced that GDP per capita is the end all, be all measure of the current economic welfare of the citizenry.
Compared to you, I seem to emphasize the social tensions and perceived inequalities more. The pandemic and social media shed brought these issues center stage, and extremist media on both sides probably exacerbated the divide. At some point, the inequality issue needs to be addressed. I am not saying running a country is like running a company, but if too many employees feel "left behind" or that they have "no skin in the game", they either disengage or actively sabotage. If my company is paying the highest average salary, is that the best metric to use? When employees start to feel upward mobility is not possible because the system is stacked against them, they give up. Perhaps, it is a matter of perception. By most metrics, a young rural White American or urban Black American is "richer" than your average Chinese migrant worker in Shanghai, but the latter is imbued with a sense of optimism for the future, if not for his own economic prospects, but for that of his children. Because USA has been the richest nation on earth for the past 75 years, does that create a sense of entitlement? Have working class Americans been spoiled? IDK. Are these anti-American beliefs?[/QUOTE]Why is GDP per capita not a good measure of cross country comparison? What other measure is superior / reliable / accurate? We can build a spreadsheet of a thousand measures but that is not conclusive because on some, one country will be better and on other measures another country would be. Actually that is a fair reflection I agree because there is no such thing as one country is superior to another, but to the extent we are discussing economic comparisons and who is doing better, GDP per capita is the most comprehensive. We can also use per capita net income, per capita net worth etc but by and large they show the same / similar trend as GDP per capita and the quality of data for those is not as accurate as GDP per capita; I. E. Those metrics might not be readily available, not measured in the same way across countries, currency fluctuations play a huge role, etc.
Look, US will never be the most equitable. That is not a system we chose. On GINI index, we will always show worse than all Scandis for sure, worse than most of the Europeans and worse than even some developing nations. In a capitalist set up like ours with limited welfare state, the price you pay is that some people get richer and some fall behind. In times of stress, there is naturally some extra focus on the ones fallen behind when they die / riot etc. To think that results in some kinda revolution is a folly. Again, if you are confident, put down a date and tell us when this revolution will happen and what type of revolution? That is an impossible one to predict.
Yes, China is formidable, and we are concerned. Concerned, not scared. It is still quite poor. They perfected one system, became richer. They are like a Spanish clay court player who learned how to hit a forehand well and improved rank, but will that win them Wimbledon or will they become stagnant at #50 in the world as most SPanish tennis players do (there is only one Rafa). Many economists are skeptical if China can escape the middle income trap. They are reaching the upper level of the range commonly used for defining that trap. We will see. Countries are pushing and striking back. US-China trade relations have taken a turn and tough to see them going back to where they used to be, Trump or no Trump. UK is getting turned off. Trade w / Aus likewise is taking a turn for the worse. Their export led model is probably not enough to support prior levels of growth. They have antagonized almost all their neighbors and partners. FT, WSJ, other media have written tons of articles on this, I am not going to copy links to all of them, but they are there. We are concerned about China as a nation but their people are still way below us; yes, when you made $5,000/ year 10 years ago and now $9,000 then you are bound to be optimistic, where as if I made $64 K last year and $62 K this year I may be dissatisfied. That is human nature. But no one can say $9 K is better than $62 K.
BTW, the so called Chinese prowess in AI is not necessarily a given. THere is a lot of media froth. AI's value is enhanced when there is more and bigger data sets. China has 4 times more population. They have a regressive regime doing facial recognition. It does not mean they lead AI. Please don't copy links, I know what the media articles that are in free domain and can be copy / pasted will say. The reality is that China does not have the building blocks of that -- they have no semiconductor chips, their software companies are woeful, they still use US / EU / JP / KR made components to build their systems.
I wish Europe had more dynamic people and eco systems. They are highly educated, but somehow or other not sufficiently risk taking. Why is there not enough new company formation? Why are they lagging so badly in tech? Germany has perfected the auto / industrial economic engine but run the risk that technology changes will disrupt. Many thinktanks produced reports that say by 2050 a dominant share of global autos will be EV based and unit volumes will be below current trend lines (will still grow but not as much as they could have) due to driverless / ride sharing. What will Germany do? And a huge chunk of their industrial exports were trying to help China grow the manufacturing in China. Cutting / welding / stamping machines, assembly lines, etc etc. At some point, China might stop move up the technology chain and make those systems internally; as it is, China requires a JV with every German company trying to set up shop in China and Germany is continually doing technology transfer. I hope Germans know they are giving away their crown jewels to China over time. Korea on the other hand has never done that, being Asians they know exactly what China can do.
[QUOTE=RickRock;2465983]It's not a question of perspective, but objective reality. The US is clearly on the way out. No serious observers anywhere on earth suggest otherwise. Entire countries are reorganizing around this simple reality. You'd have to be some kind of totally deluded nationalist not to recognize the facts.[/QUOTE]Why? Because we screwed up Covid response? The main reason we are this atrocious on Covid is because of current leadership and because of the unique nature of US / UK Anglo Saxon mindset. Ed Luce in FT had some interesting thoughts.
[URL]https://www.ft.com/content/d2d76a6f-27f4-4788-a901-1c7dcea4c26f[/URL]
"National identity is what separates the US and UK from other English-speaking democracies. Australia and New Zealand, which have been models of competence against Covid-19, are relatively young nations that struggled until recently to shed their "cultural cringe" to mother England. Canada's self-image is bound up with not being America.
The pandemic record of these three English-speaking democracies belies the notion that "Anglo-Saxon cultures" are too individualistic to stick to social distancing. If New Zealanders and Australians can wear masks, so could Americans and British. Ignoring common sense never used to be an anglophone stereotype. What separates the US and the UK from other democracies is extravagant self-belief. *Half a millennium of potted history tells Anglo-Americans they are destined always to be on the winning side. It blinds both to how the rest of the world increasingly views them, which is with sadness and growing mockery. *.
After pride comes the fall. What is the remedy? Just as humans can learn from their mistakes, nations can recover from episodes of overconfidence. Some scholars have likened America and Britain's premature relaxation of social distancing to a failure of Stanford University's marshmallow test. Five-year-olds were offered the choice between one marshmallow now or two marshmallows a few minutes later. Most children chose to eat one now. Follow-up studies showed that kids who resisted temptation proved far more successful in their adult lives. Much the same applies to the fate of our pandemic economies. *".
Anyway, I don't think many Americans are proud of US response to Covid, and polls reflect this. That said, to claim the richest, most powerful country in the world is on the way out and "The US is clearly on the way out. No serious observers anywhere on earth suggest otherwise. " is not a serious comment. Believe it if you want. Europe is NOT a country. It is a fractious group of nations thinking they have something in common, and half agreeing sometimes and bickering other times; in any case, they are floundering just as badly as US if not worse in general for many years and still have and't recovered from 2008 crisis very well. Unemployment rates in so many EU nations is just terrible.
If not US and EU, then who? Japan? Please -- it is very diminished, 2/3 of US GDP per capita, and 1/4 of our GDP and has been stuck in a no growth zone for 30+ years. If it is China, OK fine, keep your views, I wrote a lengthy response to McAdonis.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2466057]I would probably characterise myself as critical or fault-finding, rather than negative.[/QUOTE]I like this approach and many other things you addressed, but cut most out to keep it shorter.
1. Inequalities are a thing, but I feel certain cultures thrive on them while others settle in to the situation. I will focus on Chinese, or rather the Asian culture, in the USA since you mentioned underestimating the Chinese. I have observed that within the Asian culture there is a high level of drive to generate respect of elders and peers. I think this is largely cultural, demanded from birth. I have been in social situations where the first focus is on Age, then Job title, then wealth, etc. Once this order is sorted the evening can proceed. This social programming extends into education and business. Striving to move up that social stack drives younger Asian students to succeed. It also drives Asian parents to drive their children.
On the business side of things, I have seen Asians approach things differently than what I see in Western European Americans, aka Whites. Whites go to the bank, try to get a loan, work on their own to save money to start up. I have observed Asians making near total sacrifice to get momentum. Following are real scenarios. A Korean family in California wanted to open a restaurant. They went to the corner store, owned my Koreans, bought ice cream, ordered coffee with the store owner, had a meeting and walked out with the cash to start the restaurant. Interest rates are higher than at a bank, and they had a wonky repayment where they paid interest only until they could pay the entire amount borrowed in lump sum. This is an example of Koreans helping Koreans progress, even though they are making money in doing so. Another example I saw was in Salt Lake City. A Chinese family bought a house, five Chinese families moved in. They all worked jobs, made the payments, and saved money. At the point where is was affordable, They bough another house and part of them moved over. The original investors still worked and pooled their money together to help pay for the properties. This continued until all families were moved into nicer neighborhoods instead of staying in poorer inner city areas. My last example I observed in Italy. I lived across from a Asian sweatshop of sorts. People would come in, sew all day and all night. They lived and worked in the same communal building. As time progressed, people saved enough money and managed to gain a legal status. Children went off to school, learning Italian and translating for their parents. I'm sure what I saw was close to human trafficking but the people went into this for options to improve their lives.
The reason I point these things out, even though they pass both state and international borders, is that it demonstrates how different cultures address inequalities, some thrive on fighting to overcome it while others let the inequalities for their future.
[QUOTE=Chongmal;2466106]I haven't. I actually only ever saw a couple women in the regular sauna that even made my dick twitch. Most of the rest are memories burned into my brain I wish I could forget. Nothing like a lady bending over in front of you and cottage cheese popping into your mind. Then she turns a bit to the side and you see the white rockets hanging down toward the ground with water drop shaped ends and nippers stretched out flat. I got to the point where I just skepped them and went to the sauna club all day.[/QUOTE]Ouch. Thanks for that graphic imprint LOL. Yeah, nude resorts are the same. Never find any attractive young chicks.
McAdonis,
One more thing. The average American may be thinking China steals technology and that would be accurate. They do, from US and from Europe as well. Is that the only thing average American knows about China? Who can say? But the thing is that the policy makers, company CEOs, investment professionals, economists et al know quite well about China. They are not underestimating China because they think China only steals and not much otherwise. Trump's Hua Wei ban is very much driven by an acute fear of China advancing too much. We are now trying to sop their 5 G development as much as possible.
So, no we are not sleeping at the wheel. We did. I said so in a prior post, that we partnered with them and let them advance too much and provided help in their advancement which hurt us. But many Americans have a good idea of the dangers posed by China. The average American is not involved in making policy decisions and the ones making them have a good idea.
Look, the largest Chinese company I. E Alibaba is listed on our exchange. We have dozens of key Chinese companies which sell their stock mainly on US exchanges. Our analysts and investors and portfolio managers speak to them every day. Safe to say, we are not unaware of them.
And BTW, there is always an excessive focus on Americans, our people, out thinking, our flaws, our mistakes. I don't believe the average anyone, be it European / Japanese / Chinese whatever it may be, is anymore enlightened about other nations. Yes, everyone knows about US, we seem to be the focus of curiosity of all around the globe. How educated is average German or French about the dangers posed by China to their economies? Why did Germans allow their networks built with Hua Wei, when Ericsson and Nokia are European? Why is Germany allowing technology theft and transfer to China? Why are German citizens OK with German companies setting up JVs with Chinese companies through which technology is transferred to China?
As for strife and unrest in China. It is a thuggish, totalitarian society. People know they will disappear if they say the wrong word. In Xinjiang, people cannot step out the door w / o being on camera. Now HK is going the rest of the mainland. China is an existential threat to many Western societies in the long run.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466111]Why is GDP per capita not a good measure of cross country comparison? What other measure is superior / reliable / accurate? [/QUOTE]Like you say, there is no perfect metric. But from my basic economics class, I was told that when comparing countries, PPP should be used, especially when attempting to compare quality of life, since we take into consideration the basket of goods and services one would be able to afford domestically. If that was an oversimplified explanation that I was given, and there are better metrics, please explain why. Here are the side-by-side line charts for USA and DEU according to the GDP per capita PPP. In 2009, DEU's figure was about 75 percent that of the USA. In 2019, it is about 85 percent of the USA's, so it appears DEU has gained ground, not lost ground. According to OECD estimates, average hours worked in DEU is 1386 whereas in USA it is 1779. I do not know if it appropriate or meaningful to divide by hours worked, but if we calculated a GDP per capita PPP per hour worked, it comes out to $40 in DEU, whereas it is only $36 in USA: [URL]https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=2019&locations=DE-US&start=2009[/URL].
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466111]We are concerned about China as a nation but their people are still way below us; yes, when you made $5,000/ year 10 years ago and now $9,000 then you are bound to be optimistic, where as if I made $64 K last year and $62 K this year I may be dissatisfied. That is human nature. But no one can say $9 K is better than $62 K.[/QUOTE]Quality of life is one thing. The "optimism" of a poor migrant worker in China, is because he is happy with his quality of life, despite his low GDP per capita. He believes his economic prospects for the future are promising, and thus he is less likely to join an extremist group. If China cannot escape the middle income trap, then that statement will no longer hold true, and social unrest would likely erupt in China.
Contrast that to a white factory worker in West Virginia who has seen his wages stagnate, while cost of living has increased. Or maybe he lost his job and the right wing media outlets and social media told him that the socialist liberals are to blame. Such a person might consider joining an extremist group, even if on paper, he makes four times more than migrant worker in China. That's human nature, like you say. He feels he deserves better.
Given history, we know that civil war has happened in USA. That was obviously the USA's greatest existential crisis. On a scale of the 1 to 10 that was a 10. How would you characterise the current moment? And in relation to previous periods of social unrest in USA?
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466111]I wish Europe had more dynamic people and eco systems. They are highly educated, but somehow or other not sufficiently risk taking. Why is there not enough new company formation? Why are they lagging so badly in tech?[/QUOTE]Theory proposed here: [URL]https://www.europeangeneration.eu/single-post/2019/02/14/Why-is-Europe-Lagging-Behind-in-the-Tech-Race[/URL].
Given automation, there is no such thing as a demographic problem any longer. And due to the continuation of Moore's Law for the next 40 years due to 3 the stacking and new materials, the world will change its rules faster than you might think. So these old history studies are about to be dated. And we are about to enter the world of AI. And in this environment, I am starting to believe that a one world government is most likely the only way forward. Unless we want a global WW3 on our hands.
When it comes to these cultural differences Chongmal talks about, that is just one more of these "we are better than them" stories. And as much as BLM has something to it, such stories must also go. Because they are fake mindsets going forward, and only a source of racism.
They have also zip zero nothing to do with race or background, but a result of brainwashing. If you look at certain christian white european societies, such as the Mormons, Assemblies of God, Jehowas Witnesses or International Church of the Foursquare Gospel etc etc etc for example, you will find exactly the same stories as you just alluded to.
However, the term we use to describe these religious groups in university literature, are religious cults. And some might say, dangerous cults. Like in the book by Steven Hassan "Combatting Cult Mindcontrol", which looks at how Jehowas Witnesses live as an example. And on the same notion, as you are just alluding to, certain minority groups do operate exactly like as if they were culturally mindcontrolled cults. And that very notion is therefore also very dangerous.
And lets not talk about the Amish.
Plus, this can be found all over the world, and has nothing to do with Asia, nor east Asia. Studies performed in Bangladesh regarding microloans given out to highly religious women by the Grameen Bank of Bangladesh found that religious cult mindsets made people more likely to hold their words, and pay back their loans. But there were also massive downsides to this way The Grameen Bank operated (and still do to some degree). I am sure you can google that, but it leads to never ending poverty on large scale. And this is also seen with the black economy in China.
Furthermore, in Africa and South America, simillair cases has been seen, although not documented as well as with the Grameen Bank. The Freemasons of Europe for example, are notorious for having this belief that following a religion (christianity especially) are a massive net positive for capitalism as a whole due to these exact very same reasons. But they are essentially a cult. At every level. And this can be said about all the brotherhoods of christian europe. And even Skull and Bones in USA etc etc. And they all consider age first, then other ranks later. And these types of Cult Mindsets are always the same, and always dangerous.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466117]Why? Because we screwed up Covid response.[/QUOTE]No. The total inability to respond to a viral outbreak predicted for years is just a symptom of a free fall that started decades ago.
[URL]http://www.ciis.org.cn/english/2011-11/18/content_4635120.htm[/URL]
[URL]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration[/URL]
[URL]https://chomsky.info/20110824/[/URL]
Enjoy.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466128]Ouch. Thanks for that graphic imprint LOL. Yeah, nude resorts are the same. Never find any attractive young chicks.[/QUOTE]Like swinger clubs, only uglies, when difficult for me to find attractive look at expensive Globe Zurich and never felt wow at Aphrodisia where girls are available for minimum 280.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466128]Ouch. Thanks for that graphic imprint LOL. Yeah, nude resorts are the same. Never find any attractive young chicks.[/QUOTE]I last visited Cap D'Agde in France in 2008. There were many naked hot ladies there. There was the sexy section of the beach where you could bang ladies for free but the lady chose you and not vice versa. A hot lady never chose me for sex, only to give me hand jobs.
[QUOTE=McAdonis;2466192]Like you say, there is no perfect metric. But from my basic economics class, I was told that when comparing countries, PPP should be used, especially when attempting to compare quality of life, since we take into consideration the basket of goods and services one would be able to afford domestically. If that was an oversimplified explanation that I was given, and there are better metrics, please explain why. Here are the side-by-side line charts for USA and DEU according to the GDP per capita PPP. In 2009, DEU's figure was about 75 percent that of the USA. In 2019, it is about 85 percent of the USA's, so it appears DEU has gained ground, not lost ground. According to OECD estimates, average hours worked in DEU is 1386 whereas in USA it is 1779. I do not know if it appropriate or meaningful to divide by hours worked, but if we calculated a GDP per capita PPP per hour worked, it comes out to $40 in DEU, whereas it is only $36 in USA: [URL]https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?end=2019&locations=DE-US&start=2009[/URL].
Quality of life is one thing. The "optimism" of a poor migrant worker in China, is because he is happy with his quality of life, despite his low GDP per capita. He believes his economic prospects for the future are promising, and thus he is less likely to join an extremist group. If China cannot escape the middle income trap, then that statement will no longer hold true, and social unrest would likely erupt in China.
Contrast that to a white factory worker in West Virginia who has seen his wages stagnate, while cost of living has increased. Or maybe he lost his job and the right wing media outlets and social media told him that the socialist liberals are to blame. Such a person might consider joining an extremist group, even if on paper, he makes four times more than migrant worker in China. That's human nature, like you say. He feels he deserves better.
Given history, we know that civil war has happened in USA. That was obviously the USA's greatest existential crisis. On a scale of the 1 to 10 that was a 10. How would you characterise the current moment? And in relation to previous periods of social unrest in USA?
Theory proposed here: [URL]https://www.europeangeneration.eu/single-post/2019/02/14/Why-is-Europe-Lagging-Behind-in-the-Tech-Race[/URL].[/QUOTE]First of all, I doubt that you took only one econ class. You are quite cagey and don't let on much; I am sure you had a lot of education and being falsely modest here. Your past comments suggest a lot of thought and research, far more than can be expected from a guy who took one econ class decades ago.
So, my guess is that you already know all this: PPP has its plusses and minuses. I take issue with the comment: when comparing countries, PPP *should be used*; I am not aware of any should. Since you always try to put the ball in the other guy's court by asking "please provide info", I will play the same game and ask "please show where it says PPP should be used". You are a prolific user of Wiki and Google search, and have posted links extensively. The Wiki link for PPP covers the limitations of PPP and Google search will pull up many other articles. There is a vast amount of research and info on this.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purchasing_power_parity[/URL]
For the purpose of ISG, I would give one example. You can't spend PPP dollars. For instance, China's nominal per capita is $10.2 k and PPP is $16.7 K. If a Chinese dood saved 100% of his annual income (assuming it is the same as per capita GDP) for his upcoming FKK trip, he would be able to bring $10.2 K, not $16.7 K. If he flew to Seoul to illegally smuggle cosmetics, he would have $10.2 K and not $16.7 K. I am able to spend my nominal dollars, and Evita does not accept PPP dollars (or converted into Euros) from me.
Secondly, you deliberately chose 2009 because it suits your argument. To me, that is data mining. In making comparisons like this, end points matter. If I chart the DE v US PPP from 1990, the max allowed range in the link you sent, in 1990 DE was 19.4 K, US 23.8 K, 82%; now it is 56 K to 65.2 K, 86%; so, a small "gain" percent wise, but a larger gap of 9 K vs 4 K. Over the same time, in constant 2010 US $, DE in 1990 was 32.4 K and now 47.6 K; US went from 36 K to 55.8 K; in that sense, DE was 90% of US in 1990 and now 85%.
And BTW, DE is the very best of EU. Perhaps you are a German (I also notice that you carefully guard your own nationality which is just fine, but when you make these comments about other countries, especially not positive comments, would be more honest to disclose what your angle is). But for sure, majority of Europeans slid against US.
[URL]https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD?locations=DE-US-XC[/URL]
The reason a lot of European nations. From Greece to Italy / Spain to others feel DE gives them a raw deal is because DE benefits from having a weak Euro as an export led nation, and dictates ECB policy that benefits DE and not EU zone as a whole.
Your second point on China comparison: I am not even sure where you are going with this. In the prior comment you said you were concerned US was not sleeping at the wheel being too complacent about China and I answered it. But now we are talking about average Chinese dude being happy / optimistic / yadda yadda. Why would that bother me either way? I or other Americans are not hell bent on making sure the average Chinese dude is unhappy. If they are happy with their growth from $5 K to $9 K and happy with their CCP government, so be it.
But again, being cagey and careful, you refuse to be pinned down. You have said multiple times that there is a risk of a revolution / uprising / social unrest in US. I asked "care to say when and what will it look like?" You refused any answer. Bringing up 1860's civil war. How is that relevant? If you are indeed German, should I say there is a risk of National Socialists coming back to power and rounding up people w / o Aryan DNA in Dachau and Buchenwald? If you are French, should I say "but you run the risk of French revolution part deux and Mme Defarge? I do notice you have some Asian sympathies, so if you are Asian residing in EU (or even in US, who knows, you could be located in US and just pulling my leg), then should I say "there is a risk of Manchukuo, cultural revolution, and Eastern front war, etc etc"?
A lot of violent events happened in the past 2 centuries. If you are forecasting any such event repeating in US, please do let us know why you think US is at a higher risk of this than EU. If it is a generic risk you are talking of, w / o any specific dates, again what makes US more vulnerable? The way I see it, European economies are weaker, demographics are worse, there is not enough risk taking, they are excessively dependent on exports (DE) or tourism (Italy / Spain) or financial sector (UK) and also being so fragmented, run the risk of being caught between US / EU. The pension liabilities are mounting and are a real problem. During Greece crisis, we found that most people cheat on taxes and people game their system to retire at 55 w / fat pensions but there are not enough tax payers to pay it.
BTW, I have zero interest to know where you personally are from; but when discussions get into cross country comparisons like this, it helps to know what your angle is. I think that would be honest, but then again, on this board, many people take shots at US but carefully hide their tracks.
Finally, the link you added is interesting; Thanks! I will say that Europe being fragmented does add to their costs and also makes scale economies a bit more difficult to achieve. That part is true. But it is not the only reason. Structurally, they chose a welfare state, rigid labor markets, more regulated bureaucracy, higher taxation, and now they are all shoehorned inta a single currency framework with a lot of national rivalries, animosities. I personally think Europe is in a dicey situation, and China poses more risk for you than for us.
[QUOTE=RickRock;2466326]No. The total inability to respond to a viral outbreak predicted for years is just a symptom of a free fall that started decades ago.
[URL]http://www.ciis.org.cn/english/2011-11/18/content_4635120.htm[/URL]
[URL]https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/08/07/for-most-us-workers-real-wages-have-barely-budged-for-decades/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.aclu.org/issues/smart-justice/mass-incarceration[/URL]
[URL]https://chomsky.info/20110824/[/URL]
Enjoy.[/QUOTE]A link from China, ACLU and Chomsky are complete evidence that we are doomed. Got it.
Just curious -- what were these entities saying 10 years ago or 20 years ago? Did they predict doom for US back then too? Do they care to explain why we are 30% to 50% richer than Eurozone countries at the moment, in the links MacAdonis provided? Using his favorite PPP, no less.
Thank you!
P.S.: I just looked up and Chomsky is still alive. He does have longevity, doesn't he? I wonder what his secret is. I had a borderline commie roommate in college who worshipped Chomsky. Haven't heard much about him of late. Perhaps I have the wrong set of friends now.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2466389]I last visited Cap D'Agde in France in 2008. There were many naked hot ladies there. There was the sexy section of the beach where you could bang ladies for free but the lady chose you and not vice versa. A hot lady never chose me for sex, only to give me hand jobs.[/QUOTE]I should visit these places more often. I have been in Barcelona dozens of times but somehow or other never visited the beach. I was in Tiergarten in Berlin but did not see many naked chicks, let alone attractive ones. There is a small section of nude beach in San Diego years ago, and more recently near Miami but US nude beaches are worthless. I always had the fantasy of fucking a lovely girl on the beach, half in water. Some day.
I would tend to agree with McA on this one. PPP shows the real wealth, while nominal GDP is the results of big banks staging exchange rates. Like the BIS especially. But other rates also has an impact, oil trade has another massive impact etc etc. And most of the time, it is all about future guesses, as in futures. So casino bets made by big banks mainly based on political factors.
Now of course, it has to be like this due to capitalistic production costs, borders and our multiple currency world. But the fact remains that most of the time, most of the people in this world are not tourists. Then use their own currency. And if they start using another currency more, then that other currency is starting to become their new main currency instead.
[QUOTE=Pistons;2466435]I would tend to agree with McA on this one. PPP shows the real wealth, while nominal GDP is the results of big banks staging exchange rates. Like the BIS especially. But other rates also has an impact, oil trade has another massive impact etc etc. And most of the time, it is all about future guesses, as in futures. So casino bets made by big banks mainly based on political factors.[/QUOTE]Well, since I did not "disagree with McA", I guess you can agree with me as well, Piston LOL. For that matter, McA does not state his own opinion very forcefully but always asks leading questions. That is fine, we all have our own ways of structuring a discussion.
Economics is not an exact science, and there is more than one way to skin a cat. PPP has its uses (and pitfalls), and so do nominal, relative PPP and other measures. The wiki link I included both pros and cons. Isn't that the common complaint about economists, that if you have 4 economists in a room there are 8 opinions?
Yes, a guy making $2. 5 grand in India, which is their average per capita, will not starve to death -- which he would if he lived on that amount in USA -- because $2. 5 K in India is sufficient to at least eat enough to continue to live because a meal in India would not cost $10 it would cost at a minimum in a NYC deli. But if the dude travels to USA for a vacation with a year's income, it is still only $2. 5 K in his pocket, not whatever PPP says their per capita GDP is.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466401]You have said multiple times that there is a risk of a revolution / uprising / social unrest in US. I asked "care to say when and what will it look like?" You refused any answer. Bringing up 1860's civil war. How is that relevant? If you are indeed German, should I say there is a risk of National Socialists coming back to power and rounding up people w / o Aryan DNA in Dachau and Buchenwald? If you are French, should I say "but you run the risk of French revolution part deux and Mme Defarge? I do notice you have some Asian sympathies, so if you are Asian residing in EU (or even in US, who knows, you could be located in US and just pulling my leg), then should I say "there is a risk of Manchukuo, cultural revolution, and Eastern front war, etc etc"?
A lot of violent events happened in the past 2 centuries. If you are forecasting any such event repeating in US, please do let us know why you think US is at a higher risk of this than EU. If it is a generic risk you are talking of, w / o any specific dates, again what makes US more vulnerable? The way I see it, European economies are weaker, demographics are worse, there is not enough risk taking, they are excessively dependent on exports (DE) or tourism (Italy / Spain) or financial sector (UK) and also being so fragmented, run the risk of being caught between US / EU. The pension liabilities are mounting and are a real problem. During Greece crisis, we found that most people cheat on taxes and people game their system to retire at 55 w / fat pensions but there are not enough tax payers to pay it.[/QUOTE]TBH, back in February, I was convinced that there would be civil unrest in China, wondering if it would be CCP's "Chernobyl Moment". And I have already said, before that I believe there will be massive protests and unrest in China, if economic progress stalls in the next few years. Or farther down the road, if / when China reaches Western levels of GDP per capita. Are those anti-China views? EU I do not see potential for violent civil unrest. They are not a not a young, population and the social safety net is still very much intact. If the economy tanks like you and I predict, then issues arise. The youth minority will be higher than it is now, and they would be effectively locked out. USA, if you asked me probability of a second civil war, I have no idea, maybe 1-3 percent. I just assess the risk to be higher in the USA than in China and the EU. That might change after the election. Tensions are high at the moment, for that simple reason, violent outbreaks are just more imaginable. The probability of a shootout is higher if both guys are already aiming their guns at each other. One false move, and escalation. Political, generational, racial divisiveness. Guns.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466163]As for strife and unrest in China. It is a thuggish, totalitarian society. People know they will disappear if they say the wrong word. In Xinjiang, people cannot step out the door w / o being on camera. Now HK is going the rest of the mainland. China is an existential threat to many Western societies in the long run.[/QUOTE]Yes, if one speaks up against the dictatorship, CCP will either censor them or make them disappear. However, such brute-force is not enforcible on large swaths of the population. The CCP is able to crush HK protesters and re-educate Xinjiang only because the majority of the Chinese population believes (or were convinced) that it is in the best interests of China. If CV-19 had spiralled out of control, and say 50 million Chinese across all the major cities in China hit the streets, the CCP would not be able to roll over all of them with tanks. Any action would have to have been preventive, such as a divide and conquer strategy or pushing the propaganda machine. The idea that Chinese people are all obedient, well history does not really support that. The entire 19th century was one rebellion after another, and two were thought to be the result of floods. One of those rebellions lasted 14 years and is thought to be one of the bloodiest conflicts in history. So I believe the CCP feared a repeat a history, and for that reason, they implemented Draconian lockdowns and undercounted the numbers: [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1851%E2%80%931855_Yellow_River_floods[/URL].
RE: optimism, wikipedia defines revolution as "when the population revolts against the government, typically due to perceived oppression (political, social, economic) or political incompetence". The operative word is "perceived". Look an immigrant, 45 yo Mexican farm worker, who is unable to speak English, is happy that he can make $15 K a year and provide a modest life for his family. He doesn't mind that his family of six all sleep in the same bedroom. He has no aspirations or dreams of his own, but he feels "blessed" because his children, and future generations will have more opportunities than he did. Contrast that to the white 30 yo Ohio factory worker who has seen his $45 K salary stagnate while the cost of living has increased. Then let's say I am rich, liberal White politician born into an upper-middle class family. All three of us have different life circumstances and experiences. Is it appropriate for me to say: "Fuck you Billy Joe, I am not giving you no handouts. Humberto is out there picking fruit. STFU and stop complaining, you have it easy! You should have studied hard and went to an Ivy League like I did!" I am not saying Billy Joe deserves a handout, but I owe it to him to listen to his concerns. If I do not listen, he might join an extremist militia. Humberto's salary is much lower but because he has an "optimistic" outlook on the future he is the one least likely to stir up trouble.
From March 8:
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2441449]But when this really is all over, it will be interesting to look back on the statistics and see which countries won the race the end the deaths. Especially if you get old and want to retire to a country with a good health care system. And we see it's not about which country spends the most dollars, but which country has the most people who give a damn.
[/QUOTE]Salaam Polyamorist. The horses have finished the first lap and right now it looks like nobody will be retiring to Florida any more, and everybody will be retiring to New Zealand, including some of the people who started all the problems in the first place.
But keep searching.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466402]Chomsky, commies, etc. etc. Just curious -- what were these entities saying 10 years ago or 20 years ago? [/QUOTE]If you would read the links and the contents within, you'd see that the decline started decades ago. Or you could just open your eyes.
But instead you reply with ad hominem and ask questions you could answer yourself with 30 seconds of research.
That explains more than any GDP stats ever could.
Enjoy.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2466563]From March 8:
Salaam Polyamorist. The horses have finished the first lap and right now it looks like nobody will be retiring to Florida any more, and everybody will be retiring to New Zealand, including some of the people who started all the problems in the first place.
But keep searching.[/QUOTE]The US has the highest healthcare costs in the entire world, and the highest number of COVID-19 deaths.
Laos has one of the lowest healthcare expenditures on earth, 17 COVID-19 infections, and 0 deaths.
As it turns out, money can't buy everything.
[QUOTE=RickRock;2466587]The US has the highest healthcare costs in the entire world, and the highest number of COVID-19 deaths.
Laos has one of the lowest healthcare expenditures on earth, 17 COVID-19 infections, and 0 deaths.
As it turns out, money can't buy everything.[/QUOTE]The reporting standards and testing capacities are different. US (population of 331 million people) has so far carried out 131,000 test /1 million people, Laos (population of ca. 7 million people) has carried out just 2,853 tests /1 million people.
To cite Trump: if you don't test you wouldn't have any cases!
Rock.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466505] Isn't that the common complaint about economists, that if you have 4 economists in a room there are 8 opinions?[/QUOTE]I've never heard that specific comment before. It is brilliant! Thanks for the morning laugh.
[QUOTE=RickRock;2466587]The US has the highest healthcare costs in the entire world, and the highest number of COVID-19 deaths.
Laos has one of the lowest healthcare expenditures on earth, 17 COVID-19 infections, and 0 deaths.
As it turns out, money can't buy everything.[/QUOTE]Well, a few things money can buy is politicians, and testing kits. Very much on topic regarding your assessments there on Laos.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2466668]The reporting standards and testing capacities are different. US (population of 331 million people) has so far carried out 131,000 test /1 million people, Laos (population of ca. 7 million people) has carried out just 2,853 tests /1 million people.
To cite Trump: if you don't test you wouldn't have any cases!
Rock.[/QUOTE]I will say that all tests are not equal. US, as you said did 131.4 K tests per mil pop and has 10.5 K cases per mil pop. S Korea did 27.7 K tests per mil pop and has 264 cases per mil pop. A test done early in the phase of a pandemic, when there are only a few dozens of total cases or a few hundred cases means you can catch and trace as many infections as possible, isolate them, and prevent a full blown outbreak. We did not test enough early on, and now it is out of control.
That said, this virus is impacted by many cultural factors. Asians are used to prior SARS outbreaks. Their governments were sensitive to this from early on. They reacted quickly. Their people are used to mask wearing. I see tons of people walking around w / masks even in perfectly normal times. Their populations are compliant and respect governments and do not question rules, especially rules that impact individual freedoms.
In the developed white countries, and especially Anglo Saxon countries and particularly so in US / UK, people are individualistic. We are not used to listening to governments. We look to ourselves to survive and do not depend on the government. Our best president of last 50 years Reagan said government is part of the problem, not of solution. We own guns to protect ourselves; I do myself even if I live in a very nice gated complex. Our government was clueless w. Are. T. How to react to this outbreak. We happened to have the very worst POTUS as far as this virus is concerned. This was a perfect storm. We will definitely not fare this terribly the next time, I am super confident about it. Churchill said "Americans Will Always Do the Right Thing — After Exhausting All the Alternatives".
That said, people taking pot shots at US and gloating at our infections and deaths and comparing us to Laos are living in a lala land. Please be my guest and migrate to Laos, or if you are already in Laos, be happy and stay there. There is not one single country that has the combination of military / financial / economic / soft-power / cultural domination that US exerts on the world. Even in the countries which are very hostile to us, say China / Russia / any others, their populations are typically huge fans of Americans, American culture, and our people and want to copy us or even come and live here.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;2466679]I've never heard that specific comment before. It is brilliant! Thanks for the morning laugh.[/QUOTE]Haha Thank you very much. You know, the the favorite 4 words of an economist are "on the other hand".
An economist is someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. And make you feel it's your fault.
Q: Why did God create economists? A: In order to make weather forecasters look good.
Milton's First Law of Economists: For every economist, there exists an equal and opposite economist. The Second Law of Economists: They're both wrong.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466403]I should visit these places more often. I have been in Barcelona dozens of times but somehow or other never visited the beach. I was in Tiergarten in Berlin but did not see many naked chicks, let alone attractive ones. There is a small section of nude beach in San Diego years ago, and more recently near Miami but US nude beaches are worthless. I always had the fantasy of fucking a lovely girl on the beach, half in water. Some day.[/QUOTE]Have you been to Haulover? I used to go there regularly in the early 2000's and it was not too bad. Once a rather ok nude woman in her early 40's complimented my dick and we got to talking, sat down on the sand and proceeded on some hanky panky and a guard came up to us and warned us. America sucks. This would not have happened in France. That beach sucks big time now. Last time I went about 10 years ago it was overrun with undesirables and gays.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2466864]Have you been to Haulover? I used to go there regularly in the early 2000's and it was not too bad. Once a rather ok nude woman in her early 40's complimented my dick and we got to talking, sat down on the sand and proceeded on some hanky panky and a guard came up to us and warned us. America sucks. This would not have happened in France. That beach sucks big time now. Last time I went about 10 years ago it was overrun with undesirables and gays.[/QUOTE]Yeah, once. I was in FL for business and then drove straight to the Haulover beach because it was a decent distance away and I was confident no one I knew would see me on the beach. Around 3 PM in late March. Did get down to my birthday suit LOL but it was weird because I did not have a towel to put my bum down and it was hot. 75% were men, the women were old, not so good. I think there was one reasonably attractive woman but I did and't get a good look as she was roughly 100 ft away. After an hour, got dressed and walked away. Was an experience.
You definitely have skills. Able to hit up strangers on a nude beach is not an easy thing. Yeah, US sucks. You got away lucky w / just a warning. There have been multiple reports of couples arrested for public sex in FL. Here is one from a few weeks ago. You get arrested for doing what comes naturally. What a country!
[URL]https://rare.us/rare-humor/elderly-florida-couple-sex-sidewalk/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-ne--20191203-jilviehjtndifaxntjg2citwlu-story.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-couple-had-sex-inside-patrol-car-after-arrest-for-riding-bicycles-while-drunk-reports[/URL]
[URL]https://www.bradenton.com/news/local/crime/article222200710.html[/URL]
BTW, since you do use escorts in US. There is a thread here on sugar babes now on ISG. Perhaps a bit more expensive than escorts? But you seem skillful, and these days sugar babes are desperate. I am staying away from them because I can't take a risk on covid due to family issues but that may not be a problem for you.
[QUOTE=Turgid;2466389]I last visited Cap D'Agde in France in 2008. There were many naked hot ladies there. There was the sexy section of the beach where you could bang ladies for free but the lady chose you and not vice versa. A hot lady never chose me for sex, only to give me hand jobs.[/QUOTE]Full naked Cap Agde on Mediterranee sea still exist, but never been. Since I m lonesome free bird, I only go to mountains, my paradise, I was so happy in Gran San Bernardino Aosta side, even 10/15 degrees and windy and even rain in Bonette south France, when Summer was said to be hot, and to be closer to angels.
40 years back in France or Germany no girl or woman was wearing a bra on the beach or swimming pool, today that is no more possible so many frustrated guys around, the same guys are not even able to shower nude in a FKK, the world is changing not sure for the better.
Today I saw an interview with a pfizer infectologist in charge of phase 3 of the vaccine that they will try soon in South America. He said what we all already know. If we have 100 infected, 75 are asymptomatic, of the remaining 25,16 have mild symptoms and 8 have complications. The interesting point was when he explained why some places in europe have the covid "under control", such as Spain or Italy, it is because it depends on the number of deaths that each of those countries had and the areas where the virus was focused. For every death, studies estimate that there were 1,000 infections. If we multiply, for example, the 29,000 "official" deaths in Spain, when we all know that there were more, we have 29 million infected. Around 60% of its population. So, we would be talking about of certain herd immunity. We can also explain the same situation in other countries or in cities such as New York, where the number of infections but above all of deaths has dropped considerably. If this opinion makes sense, the important thing would be to know now is for how long the antibodies last in those infected who survived this disease. A couple of days ago, I heard a WHO doctor saying that the antibodies can weaken in a few months but it is not yet known in how many, it could be 6, 8 or 12 months. This information would be important considering the effects of a second wave...
[QUOTE=TeaInTheSun;2466992] For every death, studies estimate that there were 1,000 infections. If we multiply, for example, the 29,000 "official" deaths in Spain, when we all know that there were more, we have 29 million infected. Around 60% of its population. So, we would be talking about of certain herd immunity. [/QUOTE]The infected rate encountered in this study, even in so-called hotspot areas, is nowhere near 60%.
[URL]https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)31483-5/fulltext[/URL]
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466778]I will say that all tests are not equal. US, as you said did 131.4 K tests per mil pop and has 10.5 K cases per mil pop. S Korea did 27.7 K tests per mil pop and has 264 cases per mil pop. A test done early in the phase of a pandemic, when there are only a few dozens of total cases or a few hundred cases means you can catch and trace as many infections as possible, isolate them, and prevent a full blown outbreak. We did not test enough early on, and now it is out of control.
That said, this virus is impacted by many cultural factors. Asians are used to prior SARS outbreaks. Their governments were sensitive to this from early on. They reacted quickly. Their people are used to mask wearing. I see tons of people walking around w / masks even in perfectly normal times. Their populations are compliant and respect governments and do not question rules, especially rules that impact individual freedoms.
In the developed white countries, and especially Anglo Saxon countries and particularly so in US / UK, people are individualistic. We are not used to listening to governments. We look to ourselves to survive and do not depend on the government. Our best president of last 50 years Reagan said government is part of the problem, not of solution. We own guns to protect ourselves; I do myself even if I live in a very nice gated complex. Our government was clueless w. Are. T. How to react to this outbreak. We happened to have the very worst POTUS as far as this virus is concerned. This was a perfect storm. We will definitely not fare this terribly the next time, I am super confident about it. Churchill said "Americans Will Always Do the Right Thing After Exhausting All the Alternatives".[/QUOTE]I totally agree with this analysis. Great contribution to the discussion. Thanks!
[QUOTE=Pistons;2466223]When it comes to these cultural differences Chongmal talks about, that is just one more of these "we are better than them" stories. And as much as BLM has something to it, such stories must also go. Because they are fake mindsets going forward, and only a source of racism.[/QUOTE]Well, hmm, ok.
At risk of being further labeled a racist, I will make a couple quick points. Maybe not so quick.
As I read this you have already labeled me a racist and part of the problem. I suspect this is because I demonstrated pride in my Asian heritage. I accept that you may find my Asian success unfair. I will counter your claim that my Asian pride is part of the problem with the theory that people who see racism everywhere are a bigger part of the problem. Racism exists globally. Yes, I have seen Asians demonstrate their dislike for impure blood first hand. In some cases this intolerance is lessening but in predominantly Asian populated areas it still exists strongly, just as it does in white cultures, Hispanic cultures and black cultures.
I showed examples of how one culture accepts the fact they are thrown a crap hand, and they invest in themselves to work their way up. The examples I gave crossed state and international borders. Does investing in their culture eliminate the racist mindsets that surround them, no, but it improves their personal situation, their families situation and their extended families situation. At risk of further offending you I will say the German, Irish, Italian, Polish, etc. Early immigrants to the US did the same thing. Their criminal enterprises fed their intra national social assistance programs. If a culture and people are not willing to invest themselve and tackle the crap hand dealt to them, who else will. Is it racist, cultist, fueling bigotry by creating pride, maybe. On the other hand, not braking out of the cycle of being a victim has proven that victomology, although not genetic, can be passed on to our descendants or cast aside.
My Grandfather worked as a share cropper. He worked years to eventually be able to buy his own land and all of the family came together to build a house. My father graduated High School and immediately started working in a hazardous environment which he did until he was 65. He worked 18 years after that in other manual labor before illness disabled him physically. I joined the military and earned the option to finish university. It took 15 years to finish my degree, my career has been a yoyo of highs and lows. In addition to paying WGs enough to buy a small mansion, I have also paid for my children's college degrees, allowing them to start debt free. Of course, perhaps all this was only possible because of my White Privilege. Nope, one of my former colleagues is African American and we both talked about it for years. Our kids played football together, graduated different schools but all started their careers unburdened by debt. Here we are, African, White, Asian all in the same boat.
Our limiting factors are our minds.
Silly Rabbit, Trixie Are For Kids!
One babe I saw on seeking today.
If anyone is interested just Google the Covid-19 vaccine trial at Oxford UK. They have become increasingly confident that their trials will be a success as early as September this year.
As the UK doesn't have a large amount of the virus circulating the third stage of the trial is being done in Brazil on a larger scale where the Covid-19 rate is high.
Thanks but I think it is a long way to go to find a vaccine, it seems even the people who got the covid are only protected several months could be the same effect for any vaccine, we are still waiting for the HIV vaccine also promised and discovered 100 times.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2466804]Haha Thank you very much. You know, the the favorite 4 words of an economist are "on the other hand".
An economist is someone who doesn't know what he's talking about. And make you feel it's your fault.
Q: Why did God create economists? A: In order to make weather forecasters look good.
Milton's First Law of Economists: For every economist, there exists an equal and opposite economist. The Second Law of Economists: They're both wrong.[/QUOTE]And the truth to this is; if you really want to know how the world works. Ask an economist.
Well, there is a reason for economics to be grouped together with social studies at a lot of higher learning institutions. Because it economics is essentially that. A social science. And as such, it all resolves around combating cultist paradigms.
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[i]Thanks![/i][/blue]
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2467102]One babe I saw on seeking today.[/QUOTE]If same for real, because photoshop can be a liar, but for how much is she available?
[QUOTE=ExpatLover;2466950]40 years back in France or Germany no girl or woman was wearing a bra on the beach or swimming pool, today that is no more possible so many frustrated guys around.............[/QUOTE]This is due to the migrants. Most of the migrants come from countries where men and women bathe in separate beaches and even in the women only beaches the women bathe in clothes covered from head to toe so if a peeping tom is getting his rocks off at a women's beach he can only see the eyes and nose. Now transport such a bloke to a beach in France and Germany where he is seeing a woman's body for the first time he will be unable to control himself. Reminds me of a Cheech and Chong movie where an Saudi Arabian guy went to the US and watched porn for the first time - hilarious.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2467283]If same for real, because photoshop can be a liar, but for how much is she available?[/QUOTE]On seeking and other sugar babe sites, girls are not prostitutes. They will have sex (or many of them will anyway not necessarily all), but one has to work for it -- a bit like dating, but sex is more guaranteed than in dating, and also you have to give some money and gifts than in normal dating. Otherwise, you have to talk to each girl, spend time getting to know each other and eventually can have sex. I have generally paid $200 to $300 per session, but each session is not timed -- could be a couple of hours could be more, some times we spend hours together w / dinner or lunch, drinks and then sex. Nothing is an extra, but obviously not all girls will do every thing (just like in real life dating).
I just included that pic because I suggested to Turgid about sugar babes. This girl is not in my home town and I did not contact her. Just a girl I saw on the site.
I have used sugar babes in Europe (not in Germany because if I am in Germany I use FKKs) and I have given 200 Euros in Spain etc. Girls were really good. One girl in Barcelona spent nearly 3 hours, with sex in the bathroom shower, then spent 30 minutes just BLS. Good times.
[QUOTE=RockyV;2467010]I totally agree with this analysis. Great contribution to the discussion. Thanks![/QUOTE]Thank you Sir! Very kind!
Migrants from where, China, Japan, South Korea? Obviously not, most of those migrants are coming from countries where they have the same religion, this is the truth and the reality.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2467283]If same for real, because photoshop can be a liar, but for how much is she available?[/QUOTE]One more thing Sirioja. Generally, my experience is that most girls are not photoshopped that much. Unlike w / escorts, you don't approach sugar babes only for sex. You meet, have a drink / lunch or dinner / movie date etc and then may be sex at some point. If the girl looks very different from photos, you can walk away. For that reason, most girls do not cheat. Some have photos from a year ago and say "of the 4 photos, the 3rd photo is a year old" in their profile description.
This girl I included is pretty hot. Not all of them are that cute. This one is just 19 or 20. I would think if she agrees to have sex, it will be at least $400 for a couple of hours. That would be my guess. I will be very surprised if she agrees to $300.
Keep in mind paid sex is technically illegal and more expensive in most of America. So, prices will be a bit higher than Europe, to be expected.
[QUOTE=Pessimist;2467421]On seeking and other sugar babe sites, girls are not prostitutes. They will have sex (or many of them will anyway not necessarily all), but one has to work for it -- a bit like dating, but sex is more guaranteed than in dating, and also you have to give some money and gifts than in normal dating. Otherwise, you have to talk to each girl, spend time getting to know each other and eventually can have sex. I have generally paid $200 to $300 per session, but each session is not timed -- could be a couple of hours could be more, some times we spend hours together w / dinner or lunch, drinks and then sex. Nothing is an extra, but obviously not all girls will do every thing (just like in real life dating).
I just included that pic because I suggested to Turgid about sugar babes. This girl is not in my home town and I did not contact her. Just a girl I saw on the site.
I have used sugar babes in Europe (not in Germany because if I am in Germany I use FKKs) and I have given 200 Euros in Spain etc. Girls were really good. One girl in Barcelona spent nearly 3 hours, with sex in the bathroom shower, then spent 30 minutes just BLS. Good times.[/QUOTE]I would pay 200/300 USD for her if photos are reliable. Yes, in Spain can have a girl for evening restaurant and the night for 300 + gift like perfume. Can also sometimes in Paris with Russian escort.