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[QUOTE=Rubberyman]
Sydney to Manila PAL leave 1150 arrive 1630 same day, $670 USD.
Tokyo to Manila PAL leave 0930 arrive 1310 same day, $280 USD .
Not really anything in it to support a 'better explanation'. I don't think most of us would care about the price difference as explained by the proposition by one poster that since the Japanese came for shorter times ;) they might spend more on a weekend jaunt than those of us who have a couple of weeks or more at a time. $280USD over two or three days is more per day than $670 over fourteen days.[/QUOTE]
Just a thought.
It is a bit economically different if you fly from the eastern USA like I do. Typical fares are $1200 USD. Divide that by the 6 days I can typically get away to be there.
Bob
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A question to the seasoned AC pros...
How come there isn't much discussion about pickups at SM Mall? Is there much pickup activity there involving semi-pros or civilians?
Some of you are asking why would anyone go malling in Angeles when there's so much action on Fields. I ask because I was wondering if pickups at the mall may be a good way to spend the daytime since there's nothing to do on Fields/Primeter until late afternoons.
[QUOTE=Amavida]True but asians are big showoffs. Almost infantile to my western eyes.[/QUOTE]
I'm Chinese-American, so I think I can provide a perspective from both sides of the Pacific.
One shouldn't lump Korean and Japanese tourists together.
The Japanese are extremely polite and have a soft-spoken culture. They'll bow and say "thank you" repeatedly. Theirs is an egalitarian society and the men don't "look down" on women as the Koreans do. I've never heard any working girl in Angeles say anything negative about the Japanese.
Korean folks are hardcore. They are loud, macho and brash. Brawls commonly break out in the South Korean parliament ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OOWtQR13FtY[/url] or [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cu7nio1bM6g[/url]). You'll NEVER see such uncivil behavior in the Japanese parliament (or in most Western countries).
Koreans are also distrusting of foreigners, which I think comes from centuries of foreign occupation. Notice Koreans have set up their own enclaves in AC (Korean bars, restaurants, neighborhoods, etc) while the Japanese don't. Koreans ride their own buses into Fields. Japanese don't. Koreans generally aren't interested in integrating with the rest of us.
When it comes to politeness, I think Americans lie in between these two groups.
Now, in addition to lower airfare (as I've pointed out earlier), I think Korean and Japanese are bigger tippers because that's just their culture. It's common and widely accepted for businessmen to conduct business at a strip club or karaoke joint. Sometimes, their companies would even write-off their expenses. If American corporations did that, they'd be slapped with litigation.
So Asians aren't trying to be "big showoffs" with big tips. That's just how they are. Similarly, Australians aren't big tippers, not because they're cheap, but because tipping isn't in the Aussie blood.
I would wager that Japanese guys would be extremely popular amongst the local girls if it weren’t for three things. First, most Japanese aren't particularly fluent in English, making communication difficult. Second, Japanese guys aren't generally interested in relationships or marriage with Filipinas. Third, some (although few) Filipinos are still bitter over the Japanese occupation of the Philippines during World War II.
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Tipping.
Well. I am an Aussie. Who lives in South Korea. So I thought that I'd chuck in my two cents worth.
I agree with the poster who mentioned that Koreans are full on. They are. But. They generally don't tip. There's no tipping culture here. I could believe that they might throw in an extra little bit to make a deal go well. But only if they thought that they would get something for the payment.
Having said that. They are extremely generous with their friends, and generally the oldest man would pay for his friends to have a round. Be it drinks or women. So if a group of ten Korean friends goes mongering. The oldest guy (or in Korea. Normally the boss or the company) would pay for the birds. Here, they would go to a booking room. The girls might strip or dance for the guys and give them some attention in the room with their friends. And then. They all go their separate ways with the girls. BUT. At this point. The boss or whoever. Pays for everything. So in the Phils. They must wake up with a girl the next day and assume that whatever payment was made the night before. Was for everything.
Australians don't tip much at home. But we try to be sensitive to the norms in other places. And tip where appropriate. There are some cheap Charlies about though.
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[QUOTE=FurryFriend]I'm Chinese-American, so I think I can provide a perspective from both sides of the Pacific.
One shouldn't lump Korean and Japanese tourists together.
The Japanese are extremely polite and have a soft-spoken culture. They'll bow and say "thank you" repeatedly. Theirs is an egalitarian society and the men don't "look down" on women as the Koreans do. I've never heard any working girl in Angeles say anything negative about the Japanese.
Korean folks are hardcore. They are loud, macho and brash. Brawls commonly break out in the South Korean parliament ([url]http://www.Youtube.com/watch? V=OOWtQR13FtY[/url] or [url]http://www.Youtube.com/watch? V=Cu7nio1bM6g[/url]). You'll NEVER see such uncivil behavior in the Japanese parliament (or in most Western countries).
Koreans are also distrusting of foreigners, which I think comes from centuries of foreign occupation. Notice Koreans have set up their own enclaves in AC (Korean bars, restaurants, neighborhoods, etc) while the Japanese don't. Koreans ride their own buses into Fields. Japanese don't. Koreans generally aren't interested in integrating with the rest of us.
When it comes to politeness, I think Americans lie in between these two groups.
Now, in addition to lower airfare (as I've pointed out earlier), I think Korean and Japanese are bigger tippers because that's just their culture. It's common and widely accepted for businessmen to conduct business at a strip club or karaoke joint. Sometimes, their companies would even write-off their expenses. If American corporations did that, they'd be slapped with litigation.
So Asians aren't trying to be "big showoffs" with big tips. That's just how they are. Similarly, Australians aren't big tippers, not because they're cheap, but because tipping isn't in the Aussie blood.
I would wager that Japanese guys would be extremely popular amongst the local girls if it weren't for three things. First, most Japanese aren't particularly fluent in English, making communication difficult. Second, Japanese guys aren't generally interested in relationships or marriage with Filipinas. Third, some (although few) Filipinos are still bitter over the Japanese occupation of the Philippines during World War II.[/QUOTE]Unfortunatly many of us confuse Koreans and Japanese so this is a useful insight into the different cultures.
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[QUOTE=FurryFriend]A question to the seasoned AC pros.
How come there isn't much discussion about pickups at SM Mall? Is there much pickup activity there involving semi-pros or civilians?
Some of you are asking why would anyone go malling in Angeles when there's so much action on Fields. I ask because I was wondering if pickups at the mall may be a good way to spend the daytime since there's nothing to do on Fields/Primeter until late afternoons.
I'm Chinese-American, so I think I can provide a perspective from both sides of the Pacific.
One shouldn't lump Korean and Japanese tourists together.
The Japanese are extremely polite and have a soft-spoken culture. They'll bow and say "thank you" repeatedly. Theirs is an egalitarian society and the men don't "look down" on women as the Koreans do. I've never heard any working girl in Angeles say anything negative about the Japanese.
Korean folks are hardcore. They are loud, macho and brash. Brawls commonly break out in the South Korean parliament ([url]http://www.Youtube.com/watch? V=OOWtQR13FtY[/url] or [url]http://www.Youtube.com/watch?v=Cu7nio1bM6g[/url]). You'll NEVER see such uncivil behavior in the Japanese parliament (or in most Western countries).
Koreans are also distrusting of foreigners, which I think comes from centuries of foreign occupation. Notice Koreans have set up their own enclaves in AC (Korean bars, restaurants, neighborhoods, etc) while the Japanese don't. Koreans ride their own buses into Fields. Japanese don't. Koreans generally aren't interested in integrating with the rest of us.
When it comes to politeness, I think Americans lie in between these two groups.
Now, in addition to lower airfare (as I've pointed out earlier), I think Korean and Japanese are bigger tippers because that's just their culture. It's common and widely accepted for businessmen to conduct business at a strip club or karaoke joint. Sometimes, their companies would even write-off their expenses. If American corporations did that, they'd be slapped with litigation.
So Asians aren't trying to be "big showoffs" with big tips. That's just how they are. Similarly, Australians aren't big tippers, not because they're cheap, but because tipping isn't in the Aussie blood.
I would wager that Japanese guys would be extremely popular amongst the local girls if it weren't for three things. First, most Japanese aren't particularly fluent in English, making communication difficult. Second, Japanese guys aren't generally interested in relationships or marriage with Filipinas. Third, some (although few) Filipinos are still bitter over the Japanese occupation of the Philippines during World War II.[/QUOTE]One other big commonality is that Japanese/ Koreans don't want to "lose face". By providing generous tips, they "gain" face which is a concept that is foreign to the westerner. Its not about showing off, its about how people in a society treat people. BTW, the Koreans HATE the Japanese due to the many wars and occupations that have happened over the course of history.
There is also a different class of Japanese that go to AC. It tends to be the lower middle class gentlemen (which is why they don't have the Japanese only clubs in AC). If you go to Thailand, there are many Japanese only establishments where the girls are young, beautiful, light skinned and "expensive". There are many Soi's in Bangkok with Japanese only clubs catering to the more affluent Japanese businessman.
Lastly, I have found Koreans (once they trust you) to be the nicest and most loyal friends you will ever have.
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[QUOTE=FurryFriend]
I would wager that Japanese guys would be extremely popular amongst the local girls if it weren’t for three things. First, most Japanese aren't particularly fluent in English, making communication difficult. Second, Japanese guys aren't generally interested in relationships or marriage with Filipinas. Third, some (although few) Filipinos are still bitter over the Japanese occupation of the Philippines during World War II.[/QUOTE]
Disagree.
Go ask some filipinas (p4p and non-p4p) which foreigners they like the most. I think you'll be surprised to hear which they prefer.
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little update
I've been reading ramdom posts, and I'm a little shock at the prices, last I was in AC BFs were 500p, that was in 95'. Would someone please tell me what the going rate for all night is now?
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[QUOTE=Amjeck]Disagree.
Go ask some filipinas (p4p and non-p4p) which foreigners they like the most. I think you'll be surprised to hear which they prefer.[/QUOTE]
If the girl is smart, they'll "prefer" the race/nationality of the person doing the asking.
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tipping in AC
[QUOTE=Key Master]I just want to pipe in on a lot of posters here saying that all Koreans over tip the women here kind of talk and that their ruining it here and stuff. I've talked to women working in AC and Cebu in regards to this and I heard the same thing. Koreans are known to be big tippers at time and also are known to not tip at all to almost nothing.[/QUOTE]Key master,
There are many newbie new to AC that don't know the bar fine cover the service and tipping is option, I sure didn't know that first time in AC back in 2002 not an ISG member then, in Manila I tip girl at LA cafe 1000 peso to 1500 peso for FS didn't know AC, I did talk to bar girl yes korean tip very well and so and most are very rough and not nice to the girl if they are drunk most girl like American they tip good and they are gentleman.
Fast Eddie 48
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@FurryFriend
Not sure if this has anything to do with your post, but from what I understand concerning marriage to foreigners; When talking about marriage with foreigners, most Filipinas are married to Brazilians, then to Japanese, so I am not sure if you are right on this one.
Yeah, you might be right, if you are talking about pinays at the age-range of 50 to 80 years old...
[QUOTE=FurryFriend]
I would wager that Japanese guys would be extremely popular amongst the local girls if it weren’t for three things. First, most Japanese aren't particularly fluent in English, making communication difficult. Second, Japanese guys aren't generally interested in relationships or marriage with Filipinas. Third, some (although few) Filipinos are still bitter over the Japanese occupation of the Philippines during World War II.[/QUOTE]
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About Japanese
I have read some of the posts about Japanese with some interest. I am an Aussie living in Japan. 12 years thus far, so I can speak with a little authority.
Firstly, pinays and thais do like the look of young Japanese. Afterall, they are Asian too. And, as Japan is generally regarded as Asia's economic powerhouse, the trends/fashion/music is most cutting edge in Japan. So, it is only natural they would like someone that kinda looks like them. Also, as you have probably noticed, the "cute" factor is pretty important in Asia. They really don't care if a guy can't be recognized apart from a girl in terms of his physique, just as long as his face is cute and feminine. I have met quite a few girls in Bangkok that have almost perfected the art of acting/dressing like a Japanese girl. Kinda annoying really. I took one from a high class escort site. I am a Japanese speaker and I have to say it was a rotten experience. This girl was a Japanese speaker and was so bloody spoilt by Japanese punters that she forgot she was a prostitute and thought she was a princess.
Japanese have horrible life. It they are in fulltime employment, they rarely are able to take holidays. If they do get holidays, then it won't be for more than 3 or 4 days. There is a segment of Japanese society that has opted out of the normal system of full time employment. They are called "FU RE TA". These guys work several part time jobs and prefer not having to do grueliing overtime. The lads you see traveling around and staying are long term overseas are these guys. They are regarded as lazy and being losers by mainstream Japanese.
About tipping. Now, Japanese are Asian, and like all Asians the idea of "saving face" is incredibly important. When they are out and about, they like people to think they are cashed up. Now, if the Japanese is there short time, in other words he is a full time employee and there for the weekend, then he will be a good tipper. Afterall, he is going to live large for the few days of his precious holiday. If it is one of those FU RE TAs I talked about, then he will be a cheap charlie.
The kind of Japanese we generally see around Thailand are Japanese are either a "salaryman", who might have a few dollars (not as much as you might think), or a loser young fella who either doesn't have the will or brains to enter mainstream employment.
About money. Japan is not the country it used to be. The idea Japanese are all filthy rich is just rubbish. The average Aussie has double the amount the average Jap has nowadays. A typcial salary of a 40 year old man would be about $2500 to $3000 (take home) a month. Apart from Tokyo, the cost of living here is cheaper than Australia and most places in Europe. Young newly grads earn about $2000, if they are lucky.
Just a side note. Japanese are still very insular. The only Japs that would ever marry a Pinay is a country fella and generally older. There is a shortage of Japanese women in rural areas. I know quite a few Pinays here and the divorce rate is through the roof. I have to say, Japan is a fun place to live as a foreigner. But living a typical "japanese" style life, with all its rules and constraints is pure misery. The pinays that are here HATE, I mean HATE their Japanese lives and their husband's families. Japanese families are emotionally cold and isolated compared to their Philippines families. They are however stuck once they get here as they often fall pregnant and get used to having a bit of money. Many of the Japanese families even forbid the women to speak to their kids in Tagalog.
I can go ON and ON and ON about Japanese. All in all. Out of Japan they are harmless. They are submissive and meek owing to their poor language ability and general fear of the outside world. Koreans. Well, they are another story!
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[QUOTE=Dmyth]I've been reading ramdom posts, and I'm a little shock at the prices, last I was in AC BFs were 500p, that was in 95'. Would someone please tell me what the going rate for all night is now?[/QUOTE]Going rate of most AC fields and perimeter road bars is p1300-1500. A few of the bars charge much more. Tipping is up to you. Lately several gents on the board (including myself) have reported that (a few) girls have started asking for a tip. Most bar girls wont ask for it. Really, its not that much of an increase over when you were here, considering it was 15 years ago.
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My observation.....
I am a Malaysian Chinese who has recently made my Cherry Trip to AC. What I found disturbing during my trip is that most Pinoy will assumed that I am either Korean/Japanese first before other Asian race. I found that when I entered a bar (for the first time) the girls will normally be a bit distance (in approach) towards me until one of them usually a waitress, when taking my drink order, will asked me whether I am Korean or Japanese. When I said I am neither and that I am a Chinese from Malaysia, the other girls' attitude will take a dramatic change and suddenly everyone is friendly towards me.
Also when I walked on the street with a girl, some trike driver will shout something in Tagalog at me. So once I asked the girl I was with (Michelle) what they were shouting at, she explained to me that they are calling me "Korean Dog"........
My conclusion from the first encounter in AC is that the Korean (in particular) and maybe the Japanese have done some "damage" in AC that resulted in a bad reputation amongst the locals.
Any other Asian mongers here have had similar experiences?
Cheers
normad2020
[QUOTE=Spook]Unfortunatly many of us confuse Koreans and Japanese so this is a useful insight into the different cultures.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Normad2020]I am a Malaysian Chinese who has recently made my Cherry Trip to AC. What I found disturbing during my trip is that most Pinoy will assumed that I am either Korean/Japanese first before other Asian race. I found that when I entered a bar (for the first time) the girls will normally be a bit distance (in approach) towards me [/QUOTE]
I'm Chinese too. I've notice the door girls are less likely to yell out to you if you're Asian. That's what I've noticed when sitting at Kokomo's and watching the crowd.
I don't think it's because they don't value Asian patronage. Asian folks tend to be more stiff, more serious and would simply walk pass the girls without acknowledging them. The younger white folks are the ones usually riled and crazy with the door girls. The girls are simply being fun to those whom they think will be fun to them in return. Perfectly understandable.
Inside the bar, I don't feel any discrimination. I think it's because of how I conduct myself. Most Asian guys usually walk in with a large group, talk only amongst themselves and barely acknowledge their surroundings until it's time to pick the meat. I don't do that. I go alone. I walk in with a smile, maybe wave to some of the girls. I may even go to the restroom and, as I walk pass some girls, give them a high five. I will usually buy the waitress a drink so she'd sit with me. As I talk to her, I (hopefully) show that I'm a fun sociable guy, not some creep or asshole. Above the music, the girls may hear me speak with an American accent. I think this helps dispel some of the girl's preconceived notions.
Overall, I believe how you conduct yourself is way more important than skin color. I've never felt unwanted in a bar because of my race. Trust me. If there is a fun outgoing Asian guy sitting next to a stiff creepy white guy, the girls will gravitate towards the Asian guy.
I do feel unwanted if I go into large bar like Atlantis or Forbidden City alone. I think these mega bars only want large groups of Asians.
[QUOTE=Normad2020]
My conclusion from the first encounter in AC is that the Korean (in particular) and maybe the Japanese have done some "damage" in AC that resulted in a bad reputation amongst the locals.
[/QUOTE]
Clearly, the Koreans have damaged their image in AC. The waitresses seem to dislike Koreans the most, and the Indians second.
On the other hand, I think the Japanese have a very good reputation on Fields.
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Overgeneralizing leads to stereotypes and that is what you've done. I know a Burmese gal who married an older Japanese man and is quite happy living in their extended family right here in Tokyo.
Now, if anyone wants to start a thread about foreign culture interacting with Philippine culture, please ask Jackason for such a tread. I suspect there are better places for such a trread, but whatever floats your boat.
[QUOTE=Grisoman2000]I have read some of the posts about Japanese with some interest. I am an Aussie living in Japan. 12 years thus far, so I can speak with a little authority.
Firstly, pinays and thais do like the look of young Japanese. Afterall, they are Asian too. And, as Japan is generally regarded as Asia's economic powerhouse, the trends/fashion/music is most cutting edge in Japan. So, it is only natural they would like someone that kinda looks like them. Also, as you have probably noticed, the "cute" factor is pretty important in Asia. They really don't care if a guy can't be recognized apart from a girl in terms of his physique, just as long as his face is cute and feminine. I have met quite a few girls in Bangkok that have almost perfected the art of acting/dressing like a Japanese girl. Kinda annoying really. I took one from a high class escort site. I am a Japanese speaker and I have to say it was a rotten experience. This girl was a Japanese speaker and was so bloody spoilt by Japanese punters that she forgot she was a prostitute and thought she was a princess.
Japanese have horrible life. It they are in fulltime employment, they rarely are able to take holidays. If they do get holidays, then it won't be for more than 3 or 4 days. There is a segment of Japanese society that has opted out of the normal system of full time employment. They are called "FU RE TA". These guys work several part time jobs and prefer not having to do grueliing overtime. The lads you see traveling around and staying are long term overseas are these guys. They are regarded as lazy and being losers by mainstream Japanese.
About tipping. Now, Japanese are Asian, and like all Asians the idea of "saving face" is incredibly important. When they are out and about, they like people to think they are cashed up. Now, if the Japanese is there short time, in other words he is a full time employee and there for the weekend, then he will be a good tipper. Afterall, he is going to live large for the few days of his precious holiday. If it is one of those FU RE TAs I talked about, then he will be a cheap charlie.
The kind of Japanese we generally see around Thailand are Japanese are either a "salaryman", who might have a few dollars (not as much as you might think), or a loser young fella who either doesn't have the will or brains to enter mainstream employment.
About money. Japan is not the country it used to be. The idea Japanese are all filthy rich is just rubbish. The average Aussie has double the amount the average Jap has nowadays. A typcial salary of a 40 year old man would be about $2500 to $3000 (take home) a month. Apart from Tokyo, the cost of living here is cheaper than Australia and most places in Europe. Young newly grads earn about $2000, if they are lucky.
Just a side note. Japanese are still very insular. The only Japs that would ever marry a Pinay is a country fella and generally older. There is a shortage of Japanese women in rural areas. I know quite a few Pinays here and the divorce rate is through the roof. I have to say, Japan is a fun place to live as a foreigner. But living a typical "japanese" style life, with all its rules and constraints is pure misery. The pinays that are here HATE, I mean HATE their Japanese lives and their husband's families. Japanese families are emotionally cold and isolated compared to their Philippines families. They are however stuck once they get here as they often fall pregnant and get used to having a bit of money. Many of the Japanese families even forbid the women to speak to their kids in Tagalog.
I can go ON and ON and ON about Japanese. All in all. Out of Japan they are harmless. They are submissive and meek owing to their poor language ability and general fear of the outside world. Koreans. Well, they are another story![/QUOTE]