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[QUOTE=Optimist;2354017]A fellow member recently asked in a post why the forum is so quiet. And why so little hard information is posted. Unfortunately a number of reliable posters have stopped posting anything meaningful as they are wary of the large number of new or resurrected handles which share the same stylistic oddities (despite attempts to cover them) and the same mindset. These reports specialise in congratulating each other and regurgitating information gleaned from other members and other forums. Why this should be so is beyond me. But it is harmful to an effective forum.
[/QUOTE]That's right, habibi Optimist. At the end of [I]Homo Deus[/I], Harari says that today's censorship works by flooding the channels of communication with junk, and what you describe is the best example I know.
In the press we hear about Russian and Chinese troll farms trying to swing elections and so on. What we hear less about is Western corporations and governments trying to influence everyday life by posting disinformation to discussion forums. For example: let's say an airline decides to reduce legroom or baggage allowances. It anticipates push-back from the public on the Internet. So it hires an agency to infest the relevant consumer forums with its sock puppets. As soon as real people start posting complaints about the airline's changes, they are set upon by the trolls. If you come across these posts innocently, you will be amazed by how many "passengers" are arguing passionately against their own interests!
But often the trolls will not even bother to espouse particular causes. They will just try to cause the maximum disruption possible, so that real posters will give up in disgust. This all adds up to a form of censorship, and worse: it stops real people from connecting with each other, finding they have common interests, and forming communities.
Where do the fake posters come from? My best guess is that the biggest troll farms are housed in the for-profit prisons of Texas and Arizona. A lot of these guys will be non-violent offenders convicted of fraud and the like, and will have a basic level of education that allows them to mimic posts on the Internet. They will be working for 20 cents an hour and will need to do a good job disrupting forums or will be sent to do much more onerous factory work.
Trolling will be even cheaper once the bots take over, as I've mentioned before. The number of fake posts will go up ten times and everybody real will give up. Unfortunately the future of discussion forums such as this one looks bleak.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2354609]
Trolling will be even cheaper once the bots take over, as I've mentioned before. The number of fake posts will go up ten times and everybody real will give up. Unfortunately the future of discussion forums such as this one looks bleak.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your very well stated and illuminating comments on our current situation. Just what we need: A Troll with a Bitcoin wallet! Almost as destructive as Trump with a Twitter account...
One thing that really bothers me, and I don't believe anybody has commented on this: There has been in the past week or so occasional references to FKK club guests with "migration backgrounds" or "guests who take showers with underwear on", blah, blah. Wtf is this? Clearly veiled references to Turks or other Muslem people, as if they don't belong in the club, etc. Why does one group belong, but another does not? Especially when the vast majority of these "migration background" guys are German citizens, who are doing what they do in their own home cities, yet perhaps non-German Trolls post disparaging remarks about them, when these Trolls are, in fact, immigrants themselves within the FKK Club context.
Oh, my friends, it's important to call all this out for what it is, and not turn to the Dark Side.
[QUOTE=Ortos;2354713]Thanks for your very well stated and illuminating comments on our current situation. Just what we need: A Troll with a Bitcoin wallet! Almost as destructive as Trump with a Twitter account...
One thing that really bothers me, and I don't believe anybody has commented on this: There has been in the past week or so occasional references to FKK club guests with "migration backgrounds" or "guests who take showers with underwear on", blah, blah. Wtf is this? Clearly veiled references to Turks or other Muslem people, as if they don't belong in the club, etc. Why does one group belong, but another does not? Especially when the vast majority of these "migration background" guys are German citizens, who are doing what they do in their own home cities, yet perhaps non-German Trolls post disparaging remarks about them, when these Trolls are, in fact, immigrants themselves within the FKK Club context.
Oh, my friends, it's important to call all this out for what it is, and not turn to the Dark Side.[/QUOTE]I do understand your concern but I do think it has more to do with the fact that people do not like change than it has to do with racism.
I can only relate to myself. I have visited a lot of different clubs in a short time and there is a clear difference in the atmosphere in the clubs frequented by senior, mostly white, local men and the clubs frequented by immigrants, Asian tourists and foreign businessmen like myself.
In the first category you see mongers laying in the sun, displaying their junk, sometimes snoring and occasionally breaking wind without anyone taking offence or even notice. If you enter the sauna, pool or jacuzzi wearing underwear in those places you would be noticed.
In the other category, especially at night time, there are a lot of mongers wearing underwear, hardly anyone use the sauna or jacuzzi and most seem really concerned about how they look.
It is a clear contrast and in category 1 there is seldom any aggressive behaviour since everyone knows the rules of the game and no one gets to drunk (or high).
I think a lot of the older German mongers are afraid that their favourite club will transfer from category 1 to category 2.
I can see the charm in both categories. I like the relaxed feeling and the high service level in category 1 but it is really hard to start a conversation with people. Category 2 has a more international vibe, the girls are more porn star and I often find interesting people to talk to.
[QUOTE=Polyamorist;2354609]That's right, habibi Optimist. At the end of [I]Homo Deus[/I], Harari says that today's censorship works by flooding the channels of communication with junk, and what you describe is the best example I know.
In the press we hear about Russian and Chinese troll farms trying to swing elections and so on. What we hear less about is Western corporations and governments trying to influence everyday life by posting disinformation to discussion forums. For example: let's say an airline decides to reduce legroom or baggage allowances. It anticipates push-back from the public on the Internet. So it hires an agency to infest the relevant consumer forums with its sock puppets. As soon as real people start posting complaints about the airline's changes, they are set upon by the trolls. If you come across these posts innocently, you will be amazed by how many "passengers" are arguing passionately against their own interests!
But often the trolls will not even bother to espouse particular causes. They will just try to cause the maximum disruption possible, so that real posters will give up in disgust. This all adds up to a form of censorship, and worse: it stops real people from connecting with each other, finding they have common interests, and forming communities.
Where do the fake posters come from? My best guess is that the biggest troll farms are housed in the for-profit prisons of Texas and Arizona. A lot of these guys will be non-violent offenders convicted of fraud and the like, and will have a basic level of education that allows them to mimic posts on the Internet. They will be working for 20 cents an hour and will need to do a good job disrupting forums or will be sent to do much more onerous factory work.
Trolling will be even cheaper once the bots take over, as I've mentioned before. The number of fake posts will go up ten times and everybody real will give up. Unfortunately the future of discussion forums such as this one looks bleak.[/QUOTE]Ah, you are a man of the world. I had not seen the wider context. I see how naive I have been. Unfortunately due to my post being removed for some unknown reason I can not discuss this matter any more.
[QUOTE=FuckedUpSwede;2354757]I do understand your concern but I do think it has more to do with the fact that people do not like change than it has to do with racism.
[/QUOTE]Because you are from Sweden, a country and whose people I respect greatly, I thank you for giving us your unique and well-articulated perspective. Tak!
[QUOTE=DerAuslander;2354302] As you know the ISG Personal Mail system is very useful for contacting one or many ISG Members. I use it a lot and I understand you do as well. Beyond that there is always WhatsApp which many ISG members use effectively. I believe we share membership of one particular group. Although I don't post much I do receive the messages. Activity on the ISG Personal Mail System and other social media may play a small part in the reduction in forum traffic but certainly not the main reason which I believe is as you have stated above. As for the Germany FKK Clubs section of ISG, I guess it is what it is and recent posts in reply to your quoted post (above) would unfortunately indicate that matters won't change very soon.[/QUOTE](I was going to quote Optimist and FU Swede too, but suffice it to say, in agreement with their opinions on this).
I'll throw one more thought into this discussion, FWIW. I have been actively reading one of the German language boards and asked to join a private group / forum. I was refused. They simply (and politely) said I need to post enough reports, and then after a certain time, they will consider me. Nonetheless, a moderator there was v kind in directing me to some woman and club would do exactly what I wanted without necessarily sharing all the details. I doubt I will ever have enough experiences to make it to a regular on any German specific board. But since much of what we talk about is YMMV, and only appropriate if you go to the same club repeatedly, I'm not sure a lot of the information in those private chat forums would apply anyway.
Still on ISG all the people I've Messaged, have been polite, helpful and (without naming names), shared info and I've shared my experiences back. I've moderated for two USA Boards (before the giant government purge and shut down), and it was the same there too. Over time "we regulars" got sick of posting for each other with new people asking but seldom reporting. Ended up with lots of email back channels. I don't know why that is. It's not hard to post simply that you "met X at why and you received good or bad services" . The ones that most surprise me are the people who tell you they are going to "Berlin" for example in 10 days and want to know about a club and then don't ever tell you if they went, was it what they expected? Did they find a better one or worse?
For me: I went to my first club this year, I have thanked a number of ISG members for their posts, and for answering msgs, my visit was extremely successful. I posted a highly detailed report. It could have been awful without this community and I'm deeply appreciative. I've got one full day to fuck away between flights later this year, and have a game plan for visit 2 in another city, and then a 8 day trip roughly mapped out for early 2020. ALL thanks to this board and to Lusthaus (and their messaging). I'll post 'details' when it happens, provided I don't have a stroke dreaming about it.
[QUOTE=Tintin1;2354833](I was going to quote Optimist and FU Swede too, but suffice it to say, in agreement with their opinions on this).
I'll throw one more thought into this discussion, FWIW. ALL thanks to this board and to Lusthaus (and their messaging). I'll post 'details' when it happens, provided I don't have a stroke dreaming about it.[/QUOTE]Many thanks Tintin1 for your post and the opinions which you express. I know many members are aware of you and your really great posts. Many thanks.